The Express.
London, England, 1848-03-02 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, THURSDAY EVENING, MARCH 2, 1818.

2

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.—WaDsRsDAy, MARCH 1.
The SPIAUR took the chair at a quarter pat 12 o'clock.
PRIVATE BOERNE:18.
Oa the ameba of Mr. Cosnious, the petitions of Mr. H. PUA=
opehmt tbe reemit Oeleseised Company Ms were referred to the
ems f elsee oh eke MY.
POMO RUMNESS.
runnows.—oes.rstoma.frem Belehasa Kt. 00"Telit Rom
hem Olomensestisse egirt the lamer taa.--elr. R. icane,
hem Tort, origin est • rerisits et Ow tame end shear egasawation.
—PEN K. parrs. from mufti' the Wisdom of Math by
bw, sad fee the Oilhelbsall=i Ileum, from snubs
saleneys wpdeetlies eseellingednigh—Yr. F. Mosso., several in
Smear of the Land Ommeats
mime.
1111100 ND READIMOS.—Ousey Rata; Poor Removal; Sills.
EJECTMENTS IN IRELAND.
I[r.T.'"SCßOPE4with reference to the retractation and
which he had offered on a fernier occasion to Mr.
71= a magistrate and landlord in Ireland, for having
erroneously, as be thought, traduced him, begged to state
that he had subsequently made inquiries Into the subject,
and found that there been upwind' of 70 familia
ejected by Mr. Walsh from their dwellings, and that the
whole of them had been turned housele• into the open air,
men, women, and children, in the heed of the winter ; for
the eviction took place in the middle of the month of De-
cember. It was greatly to be deplored that the govern-
ment of. Ireland countenanced these proceedings,
mitting soldiers and the police to assist in turning the poo
tenantry into the roads and way sides. No one could won-
der if • people subjected to suchinhuman treatment were to
rise and sweep their eppregeore in • stasitrom the face of
their country in
.
Mr. MONSELL said that, whilst he quite agreed
Cie remarks of the bon. member, he must express his surprise
to find that, entertaining such sentiments seise had expressed
on the subject of the treatment of the Irish people, his name
was to be found in the majority of 61, who had voted in op-
position to the votes of Irish members, against the hon.
an/ gallant member for Portarliugton last evening, and
thereby 'misted in refusing that inquiry into the state of the
Irish tenantry which his present statement proved was so
much needed.
Sir G. GREY said that without accepting the statement
of the hon. member for Stroud as an exact account of
the proceedings adopted towards his tenantry by Mr.
Walsti, he must say that no man of right feeling could
do other than deplore and reprobate such conduct if truly
represented. He must beg however to deny that the
government of Ireland assisted is ejecting the tenantry. AU
that the authorities did was to send a force to protect the
legal officers, if it was stated on oath before a magistrate
that violence was apprehended by them. With every dis-
position to agree in the necessity for some modification of
the law, he could not, without protesting against it, hear
hon. members state that the tenants at will had a right to
maintain poesessiou of their holdings without paying rent or
other landlords' dues. With respect to the remark of the
hon. member for Limerick on the vote of lest night, he must
express his belief that the only remedy for the evils and the
misery endured by the lower classed in Ireland was the
poor law ; and he believed his hon. friend the member for
Stroud, in giving his veto as he did on the occasion referred
to, had merely meant to express a similar opinion to his
own. (Hear, hest.)
Mr. T. EGERTON deprecated such discussions as the
present being brought on at the readiag of the order of the
aay. Wednesday was the only day on which independent
members could reckon for their respective purposes, and if
the practice was continued it would he fur the house to de-
vise some more stringent rules than the present ones in order
to suppress it.
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN said that the liberty of speech in
that house was already too much restricted in regard to Irish
subjects. It was too bad for hon. members to be dragged
over from their country to attend parliament and then to be
told that the case of the staving people of Ireland was not
to be stated in that house. The observation of his hon. col-
league respectng the vote of the hon. member for Stroud
last evening was perfectly just ; and he called upon the house
and the country to bear in mind the fact that whilst 61 inde-
pendent Irish members had expressed their desire for an in-
quiry into a subject specially andrpeculiarly appertaining to the
well-being of the Irish people, there had been only 8 votes of
members for Ireland on the other side, 2 of which could not
be considered independent ones, as the hon. members who
gave them held office. Thus the expressed wishes of the
Irish representatives were overpowered and refused by a ma-
jority composed of English and Scotch members.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR reminded the right lion. baronet op-
posite of the numberless cases in which the soldiery and
police were employed in Ireland intheeracution of distraint'
and ejectment,.
Sir 0. GREY reiterated that the forte was only called in
when it was stated on oath before a magistrate that violence
was apprehended by the legal officers.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR—But in every ease the oath is
offered, and the military were consequently always called on
to act. They did not confine themselves to protection, for
they often took part in the distraint', and dragoons had
repeatedly been seen driving flocks of geese, pigs, and cattle.
No man could answer for the continuance of the present sys-
ton for oue day longer. There ought to be a law of coin-
pensation adjustment bet ween landlord and teuant immedi-
ately pas ed.
Mr. A. STAFFORD condemned the course adopted by
the hon. member for Stroud of attacking a man's character
in that house without, affording him any means of effectually
counteracting the calumny, should, as it was evident might
be, the statement prove unfounded. Had the poor law been
in force, as was stated, would not Mr. Walsh have been
obliged to support the families he had ejected from his estates?
Six W. SOMERVILLE mid that Mr. Waleh's proceed-
ings oould have no reference to the poor law or the quarter.
acre system.
Mr. WAKLEY said he had thought there was something
wrong about the bon. member for Stroud when he looked at
the division list that morning. (Hear, hear.) Judging from
that hon member's usual line of conduct with respect to the
Irish poor.law, he had expected that he would t aye been the
first to promoteinquiry. (Hear, hear.) He trusted OA
for the (stare, in discussions on the poorlaw, they would
have the assistance of the bon. member for Li,keard. In
his (Mr. Wakley's) opinion, attendance in that house during
poor-law discussion', and more especially on the presentation
of poor-law petitions, was one of the most important duties
of the chief commissioner of poor laws.
Mr. ANSTEY said he had listened to the hon. member
for Dublin on the previous evening, and that that hon.
member had esid nothing to lead to the inference that be
sought to relieve the property of Ireland from the support
of the poor.
PRISONS ( I RELAND).
Mr. S. CRAWFORD read an extract from an Irish paper
describingy th and crowdedk state of tbe workhouses and prima
ot Galwa, ed whether government had had any
official information of the facts I
Sir G. GREY said that be had not seen the statement to
which the hon. member referred, but be begged to remind
him that the amount of prison accommodation was the affair
of the country. With respect to the pauper accommodation,
the fullest information would he found in the correspondence
which would be laid on the table in a few days.
Mr. O'FLAHERTY could confirm in every particular
the statement which had been read by the hon. member for
Rochdale relative to the state of the jail of Galway. That
jail had been constructed to accommodate 120 persons, and
at present it contained 900. (Hear, hear.) Application had
been made to the Lord Lieutenant to send down a hulk, but
be had not acceded to the application.
Sir G. GREY said that, according to his information, the
Lord-Lieutenant was making every exertion to provide in-
creased accommodation ; but again he must remind hon.
members that the matter was properly one for the conside-
ration of the country.
POOR LAW (IRELAND).
Mr. GROGAN took that opportunity to explain a purt of
kis speech of the previous evening, which bad been misun-
derstood. He had never intended it to be understood that
his motive in supporting a committee of inquiry into the
operation of the poor law in Irelaud was to relieve the Irish
landlords from the duty of supporting the poor.
NOTTINGHAM ELECTION.
The SPEAKER informed the house that he had received
a communication from the agent to the petition against the
return for the borough of Nottingham, to the effect that it
was not his intention to proceed further with that petition.
COUNTY RATES BILL.
On the motion of Mr. Peewee, the above bill was read
a second time.
POOR REMOVAL BILL.
Mr. BAINES moved the second reading of the Poor
Removal Bill. It was his intention to postpone the commit-
tee until the 3rd of May, in order that hon. members might
have full opportunity for examining into the provisions of
the bill.
Mr. HENLEY would not oppose the bill' in its present
stage, but was of opinion that the first clause would require
considerable alteration.
Mr. BAINES would thankfully receive suggestions from
kon. members as to improvements in his bill. His only ob-
ct was to make it an efficient working measure. (Hear,
hhear )
Bill read a second time, and committee fixed for 3rd May

4: .1

next.
AGRICULTURAL TENANT-RIGHT BILL.
Mr. PUSEY postponed the second reading of the bill for
three weeks.
BRITISH RESIDENTS IN PARIS.
Viscount PALMERSTON would, with the pennimion of
the house, answer a question which had been placed in his
hands by the hon. member for Finsbury. He had been
asked whether any personal violence had been offered to the
British residents in Paris during the recent disturbances in
that capital. He was happy to say that he had no reason
to believe that any incident of the kind had occurred.
(Hear, hear.) He believed that the British subjects in
Paris bad acted with the prudence and discretion which be-
came strange' in a country where political disturbances
were going on—that was to say, had abstained from taking
any part ig them, or mixing themselves up in any way with
the seenetlthich were passing around them. (Loud cheers.)
TREATY OF ADRIANOPLE.—ADJOURNED
DEBATE.
The order of the day foe the resumption of the adjourned
debate was then read.
Viscount PALMERSTON said, is resuming my state-
ment in reply to the charges brought forward by the hon.
member for Yoagbal, I feel that I owe an apology to the
house for detaining it with the narration of transactions
which occurred 20 pears ago, and that, too, at a moment
when public attention is completely absorbed by
tematters of
overpowering importance and overwhelming inrest, sue-
°seeding each other with unexampled activity, and which must
throw into thooldide those Mug gone by and frequently dis-
missed events. (Hear.) I have to solicit also some indulgence
minty own behalf, for is these times the proper persons, or,
rather, body corporate, to be sppeintbd foreign soor4tar;
woulel4 the Siamese twins, to write ell he ha; to write, and
at the same time to say all he has to siy, and hey' h 6 2,2 A
Jsoh. (,4 Boar," and a laugh.) If, thi), I have no: hid
741,
41..,„t,„ •
in mew wliee etbst have to say, I trust that any want
,

-1-teht with the eh.
I limit a lank ?

darrangement on my part—wbieh may, perhaps, be uses-
V"
(41
the
wsnt
nfursa=t azilib6"
th.
Usk
and
I amid member for Yong will resolve the mud kind
=
Le m of the Isom. In feet the hon. and leaned
r so skipped about from transaction ateeseuon,
and m Wended the micas matters in hie no-
tice, that the topics ta his speech might be likened tot he
bap and portmanteaus tumbled out at a continental railway
seethe, among which oath peareepr has great difficulty In
finding out what boloogs Claude (A laugh.) The sub-
jects to which the bon. and learned member's notice
relates are forty in number. have been the sub-
jects of one hundred and minethir dissuasions in par
liament, and the correspondence relating to them is scattered
over two thousand *even hundred and seventy-five folio
volumes of office papers. (Laughter.) The house will there-
fore believe that I must mainly trust to my recollection for
my tawniest., and that neither during the last week, nor
tines the notice was given, has it been in my power to re-
yew with the degree of minuteness properly Demure hr
disounsion the multiplied transactions to which that mile
refers. (Hear, bear.) I remember • friend of mine mu.
timing that a naval officer who was nearly drowned sad
afterwards recovered, hod told him that in the moment of
drowning the whole events of his past life rushed at ems be
kis recollection. But sir, as I, although much thristimed
and attaaked by the hon. and learned
beeember, have net yet
been entirely swamped, it cannot xpected th .t all thr
events of my political life will at once real themselves sad
range before my mental vision. (A laugh) I think, horn
ever, that my memory is sufficiently tenacious to enable as
to give such general explanations a. I trust will be mesh&
. I think that the best way will be to take the
lithe order In which they stand on the
BMWs
paper. The first topic is the treaty of A
sad tbst is the question immediately before the house. N
with regard to this and almost all the other matters alluded
to in the speech of the hon. and learned member, I have to
observe that papers relative to them have at different time
been laid before parliament, containing such accounts of the
transactions as appeared to the government at the time or te
the parliament, sufficient to explain the transactions which
had taken place. The hon. and learned member calls in his
first resolution for all secret papers—heaven knows they are
very few. But with regard to correspondence in general,
the practice of government has been—and that pretties
was mine—when transactions were being carried on resume-
ing which it was essential that the house and the country
should be made acquainted with the conduct and motives of
government, to lay before the house such portions of the
diplomatic correspondence which had tiken place as might
convey to parliament a true and faithful knowledge of all the
main and important circumstances that had occurred. It
was never the practice or the duty of government—on the
contrary, it would be a breach of their duty to do so—to
lay before parliament such portions of the correspondence as,
containing opinions of individuals, or confidential communi-
cations made by the foreign minister to our diplomatic agents
I abroad, might, by their disclosure, be injurious to the public
service, or tend to defeat the objects which the parliament
and the government had in view. (Hear, hear.) An am-
bassador at a foreign court is bound to tell his government
everything be hears, and everything he thinks, and even.
thing that may be mated to him by the government to which
he is accredited; sod it is manifest that in such circumstances
there must be things which, if published to the world, would
deprive that minister, for the future, of the power of making
such communications. (Hear, hear.) I will venture to say
that any man who has ever been concerned in these matters,
either in the government or in diplomacy, will at once see
that if it were the rule that everything a foreign minister
wrote to his government was to be laid before parliament,
such minister would soon cease to write anything which
would be of advantage to government in conducting the
affairs of the country. (Hear, hear.) Therefore when any
portion is withheld, it is nut with any wish or intention of
wohholding from parliament essential knowledge, but sim-
ply for the purpose of not exposing your agent to be placed
in such a position as wou:d deprive him of the power of be-
ing useful to his government. If the hon. and learned gen-
tleman now moves for additional papers beyond those which
have been already produced respecting those different
transactions, my only answer is, that it is not consistent
with my public duty to consent to such a motion. If the
house will appoint a secret committee to inquire into these
transactions, I have no objection. If they go through the
2,775 folio volumes, I wish them joy of their task, but as far
es lam concerned, I have not the slightest objection to
their investigation. (Hear, hear.) The treaty of Adrian-
ople has been laid before parliament, but with It I have
nothing to do. It was concluded when I was not in office.
The next two or three motions of the honourable and
learned member relate to matters of a somewhat similar
kind, the treaty of Unkiar Skelessi and the communications
held by Russia with the provinces of Moldavia and Wal-
lachia. Of these, the treaty of Unkiar Skelessi has been
laid before parliament. Then came the question of
the treaty of commerce concluded in 1838. Now,
although a treaty of commerce is no novelty in the history
of the world, and with respect to the merit of the contriver
cannot be ranked with the invention of gunpowder or
printing, I do not wish at all to detract from the
merit of the honourable member for Stafford in the
share he had in the preparation of that treaty. No
doubt Mr. Urquhart did suggest the outline, and
afterwards furnished details for the treaty of commerce
with Turkey. 1 was at the same time glad to receive
suggestions trom him, es I am alwa glad b. receive them
from those whom I think arc capable ys
of advancing the pub-
lic service. The learned gentleman had stated that the treaty
as signed placed British subject% on the footing of the raysh
subjects of the Porte, instead of on the taxing of the sub-
jects et the most fay cored nations. W.ll. as regarded the foot-
ing upon which British subjects under that treaty were
placed. By the first articled the treaty of Constantinople, all
former rights and privileges were continued ; and it was
further stipulated, that all rights, privi:eges, and immonaioe
which the Porte now grants, or may bireafter grant, to the
ships or subjects of any foreign power thall be equally granted
to and enjoyed boy the ships and subjects of Great Britain.
(Hear, hear.) If that was not giving to British subjects and
British ships all the advantages enjoyed by those of the most
favoured nations, he did not know what it meant. tliear.)
But beyond this, in all subsequent transactions that this
con
the meaning and interpretation of that ntipulatiee had base
admitted, and it had been so acted upon by both
Then the hon. gentleman said that Mr. Urquhart's eft of
the treaty proposed that there should be no prohibition of
the export of articles, the produce of Turkey, by British sub.
jests- Why, this was a stipulation of the treaty also. The
treaty distinctly declared that it should be lawful to export
articles of Turkish produce upon payment of the duties fixed
by the Turkish government, and in the tariff which fixed
those duties, the articles "oil and timber "'were expressly
specified. (Hear.) It was clear, therefore, that either the
hon. and learned member had never read the treaty, or,
having read it, that he did not understand it. Then, as to
the alleged refusal of Russia to acquiesce in the treaty.
Though Austria and other powers did acquiesce in it imme-
diately, it was undoubtedly true that for a long time Russia
did not, but it was equally true that during the last three or
four years she had acceded to it ; and that she had concluded
a similar treaty on her own part—the only difference be-
tween the Reagan treaty of commerce with Turkey and our
own being that the former gave permission to the Turkish
government to prohibit the export of certain articles, or to
establish monopolies in certain articles, end to impose
restrictions on Russian subjects. It was said that
similar restrictions were to be imposed on English
subjects, but up to this time he (Lord Palmer-
ston) had declined to permit'it being done. (Hear, hear.)
With regard to what had been said about the late Lard
Sydenham, in connexion with this treaty, he need scarcely
in that house declare that, if any man was incapable of being
influenced by base or sordid motives, or of swerving in any
way from what he believed to be his strict duty to his sove-
reign and his country, it was that noble lord. (Loud
cheers.) He now came to a point in the treaty to which the
draft did not in any way allude. The treaty specified in de-
tail the parts of the Ottoman empire to which its stipulations
should apply, and limited the trade of all other foreign
powers to three localities. (Hear, hear.) The next subject
on which the hon. and learned gentleman had founded a
charge against him was the treaty of July, 1840. Now, that
treaty, together with the various transactions which ledth and
had followed it, had been made the subject of much discussion
in parliament. He had laid before the house at the time
several blue books containing the correspondence and de-
spatches on the subject, and he believed the opinion of par-
lament had been pretty well settled in regard to it ; and to
enter at large into all those transactions, to re-open the corre-
spondence and despatches with the view of answering in de-
tail the hon- member's statements, would require much
more time than the house could indulge him with.
In fact, there was scarcely one of those transac-
tions, which to discuss thoroughly, would not require a 1
whole night's debate. (Hear, bear.) He was aware that
some there were who thought it would have been better
to have allowed the new empire to be created, and to have
entered into diplomatic relations with Mehemet Ali as an
independent sovereign. That, however, was not his opi-
nion • neither was it that of the government of this country
or of other powers of Europe. It did appear to them
that the Turkish empire as it existed, while it could not be
formidable to any of its neighbours, was useful as an element
in the maintenance of the general peace of the world—that
if it were dismembered a general war might be the result,
and it was therefore thought better to maintain that
empire in its integrity.. That was the opinion of Eng-
land, Austria, Pnuata, and Russia, and at first
they thought that it was also the opinion of France.
The other powers were in communication with France, and
believed that she would accede to the measures they pro-
pose& France, however, took different views, and it was
not for him to pass judgment upon them ; but the result
was that the French government declared that they could
not, without running counter to public opinion in France,
Join in coercive meuures against Mehemet Ali, to compel
him to retire from Syria. The hon. and learned member
had said that the French government proposed to ours to
send a joint squadron to the Dardanelles, and that we de-
clined. The English government were perfectly right in
so declining. (Hear.) The danger was not in the Darda-
nelles but in Syria, and the object was to compel Mehemet
Alin retire from Syria. Of what use then would it have
been to and • squadron to the Dardanelles ? (Hear.) We
agreed with France (continued the noble lord), that if any-
thing of a hostile character should occur on the part of
Russia against Turkey—though she coincided with us as to
the necessity for putting down Mehemet Ali—we should be
happy to join in sending such a representation
of the Raul power of England to the Dardan-
=So as should show that we were determined to mid
any attempts against the integrity of the Ottoman empire in
that quarter. ne state of the case then WY this: the
Frisch government declined to act with us where aloes
action was necessary, but she was willing to act where Mien
could not possibly operate in the matter at lane. (BIM)
But, said the hon. and learned gentleman, to the.eassalih-
meet of all Europe, towards the latter end of the year lea
Baron Brunow arrived in England, with the object segit
an ead to the mutual diatrust which since the year I
elided between England and Ruins. How does that coin-

that I had been =eh a devoted bistro-
. (Hoor, mid • laugh.) Be muck distrust
.......f walltrlati teel
that ft•counwatri:ll hiring
eoonary Jul nine
sue= come on • special shim to "MOTO Ben
it ; sad yet
; es•isreuned df h•Thi&_besei iliS asheteelett heiresses% of
rat power. (Her.) Morels so desist then that sews, die
trust existed. Maas elresmetause bad essespired to mea-
nies it, and I admit that the object for which Bann Branow
of
to this country was by a frank and full explanation
of the Dews and intentions of the Rmpesor of Amok to so.
move that dis. rust. But aye the bon. and learned gentle.
sum, the Baron Brunow came also with another purpose,
which was to induce England to break its alliance with
Truce, amid abandon all measures for maintaining the integ-
rity of Turkey. As he was right as to the first part of Baron
Brunow's instructions. he was as wrong as to the second.
(Hear.) So far from M. Brunow's instructions being to in-
duce England to break with France, one of the most explicit
parts of his communication was to this effect: " We do not
sok you to break with France; we know you desire to keep
well with France, and we wish you to do so. We do not
want to exclude France from our conference for the inde-
pendence of Turkey, but what we wish is that you should
understand that our policy is an much as yours the mainte-
nance of the Turkish empire as A is. We are anxious to
cooperate with you, and that you should co-operate with us
in the endeavour to prevent the dismemberment of that
empire by the establishment of an independent king-
dom within the limits of its territory." Nothing could
be more frank than the conduct of Baron Brunow. Fortu-
nately the policy of Europe remained undisturbed, and
France maintained her amicable relations not only witn this
country but with the world. When the operations were
concluded in 1941 there arose the question of the treaty of
the Dardanelles, and as a proof that the course which had
been adopted had not induced any hostility on the part of
the French government, the representative of that govern-
ment at this court used every exertion to bring about the
conclusion of that treaty, to which France was a party, and
which was a sortof act of reconciliation between France
and the other European powers. (Hear.) The hon. gentle-
man had said that since the events of 1840, and the treaty of
the Dardanelles, English influence had been destroyed in
Turkey, while that of Russia had become paramount. His
(Lord Palmerr.on's) information in this respect differed
widely from that of the hon. gentleman. So far from British
influence having ceased to exist after the events of 1840, he
would venture to say that at no period had British inflames
been so powerful in Turkey as at that which imeedisealy
followed these operations. For on what was bassos@
founded? Influence depended on one of two paegene—
hope and fear. (Hear, hear.) Our influence in Turkey
must always be founded on hope. Rumbn inflames
depended on fear. When two powers were in immediate '
proximity, like Persia, or Turkey, and Ramie, the weaker I
power must necessarily be influenced by the more powerful.
In concluding the treaty of the Dardanelles, he denied that
anything had been done to add to the influence Whisk
Russia, from her geographical position and her power,
naturally possessed over Turkey; but, on the um-
teary, the opportunity which her disposition to eat
in concert with the other powers gave, wee *Dui
by them to place her equally under the proteellem ef
all—and this, he contended, was eminently for the advaMlllll9 1
of the Turkish empire, and conducive to the maintenance of
that independence which was necessary as an element in the
balance of power in Europe. Then came the affair of
Algiers—the occupation of that country by Fraace. This,
he submitted, was not the moment to go into that ues-
q
tion. ( Hear, hear.) They had had papers on the sub-
ject laid before them from time to time. Questions
had been asked, and the houss had been informof France,
ed of the
statements and explanations of the government
when the occupation was first carried into effect, and subse-
quently at various times by himself and those who were
afterwards in power, and parliament had had various oppor-
tunities of pronouncing judgment upon the subject ; but at
this time there were Aley reasons for not going further into
it. (Loud cheers.) The next point raised by the hon. and
learned member was the naval and military operations car-
ried on by Russia against Cilearria, and the consequent in-
terference with the commerce of this country. On this
point the hon. member said that by the treaty of Adrianople,
Turkey ceded to Russia certain territories on the eastern
coin of the Black Sea; that the question was, did that
treaty convey to Russia dominion over the interior as well
as the coasts. The first question was whether Turkey bad
herself ever possessed absolute dominion of the Circassian
oasts ; how far she could cede it to Russia ; and next, how far
Ruesia was empowered to exercise authority in the interior
as well as on the coast. Much controversy took place on the
question at the time, and, to *ay the truth, it was • question
on which the g svernment of England was not very anxious
to give any opinion. There were many reasons why it would
have been most unwise for England to go point blank against
the interpretation which Russia had put upon the treaty,
and to deny her tight to the territory she claimed under it,
The fate of Cireassia, however, attracted great sympathy in
this country, and some of the more ardent friends of the
Circanians were anxious for what they called " trying the
question." Now, if any person wished to try a question of
law or justice, nothing could be more laudable than for that
purpose he should go in and assist a third party to obtain a
decision ; but when they came to talk of trying the question
of the right of the Russian government to the territory of
the interior of Circa's* the real meaning was to place
England and Runde in ouch a position of conflict of opinion
that cm, of the other eon' give wan , or that bath must go
to lee: .rheiels. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) It meant,
in shunt, war with Reeds or submission. (Hear.) It
was under these eirconittiones that a certain Mr. Bell
freighted a vessel to Cireastia with salt inn article mui h
wanted ii. Ciriaesisi, witi, Use avowed purenst of tr, i..g the
question, at • 'me when the Russian government had riven
notice that they had blockaded the roast. Of course Mr.
Bell's meaning aas that, if his ship should be liken by the
Bonnet bleckeding ajo•dron— which, in all prol,bility, it
would be—he would apply to his own government to obtain
compeneation from Russia; and that, on Russia refusing to
compensate, England would send a fleet to the Italtic--eink
or take the blockading squadron, attack the Russian annuls,
and that (said the noble lord), we should have a regular set-
to. (" Hear," and • laugh.) I have been often accused of
my war propensities ; but I must own my courage was not
up to that point. I did not fancy it, (Loud laughter.) Haw
ing no inclination for the set. to, and not being able to bring
myself to give an opinion unfavourable to the Circassians,
and acknowledge the right of Russia, and so put a stop to
the proposed expedition, I gave the answers to Mr. Bell's
application which were published, and which I knew would
be published, and that they were obtained for that purpose
answers which were, perhaps, in some degree evasive,
and, like some answers we are in the habit of giving
to questions in this house, when official duty pre-
vents our gratifying mere curiosity. The result, how-
ever, was, that Mr. Bell proceeded with his expedition
to Circassia, slid went as far as Constantinople, but
being there warned be our ambassador, he returned
and gave up the expedition. But he soon took the
matter up again, proceeded with his ship (the Vixen) to Cir-
cassia, and was of course seised by the Russian cruisen. In
consequence of the reeresentations made • long correspon-
dence took place between the two governments—the papers
connected with which have all been laid on the table—and
the decision ultimately come to was, that under the peculiar
circumstances in which the vessel was seized England had
no right to claim coin Don. The late Lord Durham
was then our am or at the Russian court, and it was
through him the matter was settled. There was mes cir-
cumstance connected with this matter which I will mantles
here. Mr. Urquhart was at the time secretary of ember,
at Constantinople. Now, the purpose for which ambame-
dors and secretaries of embassies are gent to foreign cannel
is to maintain peace—when we want war we send men d'.
another profession. (Hear.) But some time after this I was
shown, by one of the under secretaries of the Foreign-office,
a private letter from Mr. Urquhart, in which he stated that
Mr. Bell having, from the discouragement he had met with,
abandoned the expedition, he(MeUrquhart) had sent for him
and induced him to take it up again. The noble lord added that
he considered this to be so great a breach of duty on the part
of Mr. Urquhart, that he did think it right for the nobly
service to discontinue the position he occupied as secretary
to the embassy at Constantinople. (Hear.) And he ti.
ingly wrote to; sly that as he (Mr. Urquhart) had obtained
leave of absence to come home, he would not return in the
lame capacity. How far that communication might haw
affected his feelings and opinions, since expressed not very
much to his (Lord Palmerston's) advantage (a laugh), it was
not for him to pronounce. He merely stated the fact, wish-
ing
.the house to know that the bundle of accusations brought
against him by the hon. member for Youghal in reference
to this part of the case came from the hon. member for Staf-
ford, who was the only man by whom the assertions he bad
referred to could be made, and who, from the moment he
had felt it his duty to recall him, had pursued him (Lord
Palmerston) with the bitterest animosity, and attempted—
he would not use hard words (cheers), but who, he must say,
had been unceasing in his attacks upon him ever since.
(Hear, hear.) Then be came to the paragraph of
the hon. and learned gentleman's motion for " the
treaty signed at London, in the year 1834, between his
late Majesty King illiam IV. and the King of
the French, and the Queens of Spain and Portugal, and
all arrangements and transactions between or among the
powers, or any of them, in relation thereto, etc." That was
known by the name of the quadruple treaty ,• but he was
not aware that the hon. and learned member dwelt particu-
larly upon it. Then came " the marriages of the
Queen of Spain and her sister, Dona Luna Fernando',
and the previous transactions relating thereto."
That was a subject into which, at the present moment, he
did not think he ought to enter. (Hear, hear.)
He would content himself by saying that all the
papers in reference to it were before parliament,
and that the opinion of the country seemed to be that the
British government acted throughout the transaction a
straightforward, flair, and honourable part, and that no
blame was attributable to them. He next came to " the
intervention by British forces, in the present year, in the
domestic affairs of Portugal, and the results of that interven-
tion." That subject had also been fully discussed in that
house, and was one upon which very voluminous papers had
been laid before it, and, whenever it might be the pleasure
of the house again to go into the subject, he should be per-
fectly reedy to pursue it through all its details. (" Hear,"
from Mr. Antsy.) We had interfered, with France and
Spain, to put an end to a civil war in Portugal which pro.
mined no better result than bloodshed and devantation, and
our interference restored peue. The desire of both parties
was, that the party dissension which then prevailed in
portagal should be transferred no its legitimate arena of
parliamentary election ; and, to a certain extent, they sass
l seeded. He would not say that they had entirely sue-
' seeded—(hear, hear) • for, if asked whether the
elections which had liken place and the parliament
thereby assembled were those which were contemplated by
the protocol, he was afraid he must say that they were not.
(Hear, hear.) The Portuguese themselves contended that
the elections were not free, and that parliamentccosequently
was not • due representation of their political feelings.
(Hear, bear.) All he could say en that subject was, that

when •
socstei tient offpwreasocsAa*Oldi Mose In-
stitution of sdliedl
be
wed; Agit lbs.
solves one day or othor, smalls rides be tko psayin Por-
tugsl, therefore, would be, to wdl tot the met tare, for la
the long rim their right* and libmtlso were corals to be se-
cured. (Hear, bear.) The nue WWl* of the hon. gen-
tleman's motion was, " This dew coasts of Mexico
and Buenos Ayres by the hues et Francs in 1837 and 1838,
and the measures (if any) taken by the British government
to give effect to such blockades." Now of those blockades
the hon. gentleman had not said much. (Hear, hear.) The
next portion of the hon. gentleman's motion was for
" the several trestle' contracted between the crown of these
realms and the Emperor of Brazil, and all subsequent con-
vention (if any) between the said powers, for the repression
of the due trade, and the measures (if any) taken by the
British government in consequence or udder pretext thereof.
Now be (Lord Palmerston) was not responsible either for the
treaty which was concluded in 1826, nor the act of parlia-
ment of 1844, which was the aet of a government of which
he was not a member, to which he only gave an individual
support. These wire transactions, therefore, with which
he had had nothing to do from beginning to end. He
thought that the treaty was to be approved of, and that the
act of parliament was necessary and right, and he was per-
fectly willing to take upon baleen the responsibility of hav-
ing approved of both, but he could not lay claim to the merit
of being a party to either. How they could be brought for-
ward as evidence of his undue partiality towards Russia he
was unable to discover, although it was possible the hon.
mover could discover some logical connexion between them.
Then came " The treaties signed by his late Majesty King
George the Fourth and the King of Portugal for the repres-
doo of the slave trade, and the measures (if any) taken by
the British government in consequence or wader pretext
thereof." If there was any one subject which had been
more fully discussed that another in that house it
was that of the obligations contracted by Portugal fur
the suppression of the slave trade. But he could not see
how any part of that transaction bore upon our relations
with Stumm, except so far as that the Russian government
had been a party to the congress of Vienna, in which the
whole European powers had engaged to do all they could to
put down the slave trade ; that she afterwards agreed to a
treaty with England respecting the right of search, declar-
ing that no Russian subject was evir suspected of being en-
gaged in the slave trade, but that as it was thought her flag
might be fraudulently usurped, she would concede the right
of search. There was nothing so amusing to some people as
the solving of a riddle, or a clime problem, nr the'disoovery
of a clue to some apparent labyrinth ; and so the hon. gen-
tleman might argue that this treaty and these transactions
with Portugal bore upon his charge, and formed part of the
great and gigantic plan which occupied his (Lord Palmer-
ston's)mind for laying England prostrate at the feet et Russia.
The next item in the aociuntComplaints mode by or
on the part of the French government in respect of the cap-
ture and condemnation of French vessels and their cargoes,
leader pretext or in soasequence of their being engaged in
the slave trade ; and the measures taken by the British go-
vernment in consequence of ouch complaints, specifying the
cases wherein compensation bath been granted by the
British government in respect of such captures and
condemnations, and their particular and aggregate
amounta." There had been no doubt one or two
complaints of that kind. In 1831 and 1833 Lord
Grey's government obtained from the government
of F ranee a mutual right of search for the suppression of the
slave trade, but the operation of the treaties of those years
was suspended by the treaty of 1815; and here again he
supposed the hon. gentleman would argue that his (Lord
Palmerston's) only object in getting those treaties of 1831
and 1833 fur a right of search was not the suppression of the
slave trade; but, by a sly, although rather circuitous me
thod, to,-,create another enemy against England, so that
when she lay prostrate at the feet of Russia, France, like
Portugal, might abandon her to her doom. (Laughter.)
That was an argument really so puerile that he felt it unne-
cessary to answer it, further than by observing that those
treaties were proofs of friendship, and not the seeds of
enmity, and that we continued in cordial intimacy with
France until, from other circumstances, a temporary
coolness took place—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Anstey)—
but which soon ceased to exist (laughter)—and
was followed by the same cordial amity as be-
fore. The next part of the motion was for "the
instructions from tame to time jawed to officers in com-
mand of vessels of war in her Majesty's service, respecting
the visitation, search, detention, and capture of foreign ves-
sels engaged or suspected of being engaged in the slave trade,"
&c. ; and then came " the several treaties signed at London
between her Majesty and the republic of Texas, and the
measures taken by her Majesty's government to prevent the
introduction of slavery and the slave trade into the said
republic, and to secure to her Majesty'. subjects, having a
lien upon lands in Texas, for the amount of their claims
upon the republic of Mexico, the enjoyment of their said
lien, and the satisfaction of their said claims." These treaties
were already before parliament. The British government
being unable to induce Texas to remain subject to the re-
public of Mexico, thought that the next bait thing they
could do was to persuade the two parties to separate
as friends, and not go to war, and thereby give rise
to those consequences which the British government
had foreseen, and which had since taken place. They en-
deavoured to persuade the Mexicans that they had no hope
of recooquest, but that they ought to acknowledge the in-
dependence of Texas upon conditions ; as the inevitable re-
sult of u prone *el refusal would be that the United States
woidd interfere, as he had done. In the meantime the
British government found that other powers had acknow-
ledged the independence of Texas, and as that country was
likely to be • gmat cotton growing country, and presented
other circumstances likel, to be advantageous to this, they
consented to andooneluded a t ratty of commerce with Texas,
which e 3.s in (net ackno • ...oging her independence. He
conceived that in that to were perfectly right, and that it
was a step which the best chance, if chance there was,
of continuing that independence, and of giving security to
oar commerce, so long as it did continue. Both hon.
gentlemen found fault with him for not having stipulated
that slavery should not be introduced into Texas. But
his answer was that Texas would not have listened to such a
proposal. (Hear, hear, hear.) He now came to "the
award rendered by the King of the Netherlands in January
1831, under the treaty of the 29th day of September 1827,
and the measures taken by the British government for giv-
ing or securing to the asid award its due effect; and also all
leequent negotiations with the government of the
United States of America in relation to the said
award, or the matters therein referred to." Upon
this the hon. gentleman made one of his greatest mis-
takes, accusing him (Lord Palmerston) of positive crimi-
nality by abandoning the definite and irrevocable settlement
of the King of the Netherlands. He did no such thing.
(Laughter). On the contrary, the British govenesteas,
through him, sent that award without any obj
which they might have raised, to the United Suit=
submitted it as final and conclusive for the sake of peace , not-
withstanding that it involved a considerable sacrifice of ter-
ritory ; but the United States rejected it from the first mo-
ment, arguing that it was no award but a recommendation,
which they deslined to act upon. Then followed the govern-
ment of Sir It. Peel and the Ashburton treaty, by which even
something more was conceded than by the award of the King
of the Netherlands. Passing over a pile of baggage, and
getting to the other end of the train, he found "the selection,
in 1834, of the present Shah of Persia to fill the throne of
that country, the eubsequent rapture of the defensive alli-
ance between that power and Great Britain, the cause,.
and consequences of such rupture, and the measures
taken by the British government upon pretext Of by
reason thereof, and porticularly with reference to the
part taken by the Czar of Russia in respect thereof."
In the East the law of successioa was not the same as in thee.
countries: It as often descended to the brother of the reign-
ing monarch as his lineal descendant ; hat the opinion or
wish of the reigning monarch was considered generally to
settle the point ; it sometimes happened even that a pencil
not related to him succeeded to the crown. The late Shah
during his life expressed a wish, his eldest son being dead,
that his grandson should succeed him' and be settled the
crown upon him. This wish was conveyedyed to the Hussite
and British governments, who concurred in the choice. Had
we taken another course, had we opposed that choice, and
said that the late Shah's brother, and not his grandson,
should be his successor, there would upon the Shah's death
have been a civil war in Persia, in which Russia might have
interfered. But that extreme jealousy which the hon. gen-
tleman
opinion that w w expressed for Russian influence in Persia and the
ere entirely excluded was not shared in by
men who belonged to governments of which he (Lord Pal-
mento was not a member. The next subject ad-
verted a
t) o by the hon. and learned member was the occu-
pation and retention of Aden by the naval and military
forces of Great Britain, and the mums of or reasons for
the same. Ave to that subject the papers were laid on the
table in 1839. Aden was obtained by cession from the
native chiefs, in order that it might be a half-way station
between the Red Sea and India, where the steamers might
find colds. There was good reason to believe that it might
become a station of some commercial importance. But how
it tended to promote the ambitious views of Russia he
(Lord Palmerston) was utterly at a loss to perceive. The
next point to which the bon, and learned gentleman had
called their attention was " the assertion of ecclesiastical and
temporal jurisdiction advanced by or on the part of the
crown of Portugal, or the viceroy of the said crown, in Goa,
over the persons and properties of Roman catholic" being
natural born British subjects within British India; and the
measures (if any) taken by the British government to re-
press or maintain the assertion of such jurisdictim ; and
the charges (if any) preferred against the said viceroy, of
being engaged in collusion or conspiracy with the deposed
Rajah of Satter", to the prejudice of the crown of Great
Britain and its sovereignty within India; and the measures
(if any) taken by the British government generally there-
upon, and particularly with reference to the said crown of
Portugal, and its responsibility for the same." As to the
question of Batten, he thought it would be better not to
mix it up with the present discussion—it was a subject
enough of itself. (A laugh.) And with regard to Goa he
must be excused from entering. on it, because, in the first
place, it was a dispute as to spiritual jurisdiction between
the Portuguese government and the East India Company
and, in the second place, because the correspondence merely
=Wthrough his hands ministerially as Foreign Secretary,
as the question one which could even remotely
affect Russia, until, by her having succseded to
our Indian empire, she should stand in the shoes of
the East India Company, in their dispute with the Por-
tuguese government. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.)
The circumstances attendant on the death of Lord Napier
would be in the recollection of the house. When he quitted
the British factory at Canton he was suffering under severe
illness, and his boat being surrounded by the Chinese
junks, which kept up a continual noise of gongs, drams,
and trumpets, the fever which had attacked him increased
until it carried him off. The circumstances attendant on
Lord Napier's death did not, however, appear to the go-
vernment to be such as to justify, them in commencing hos-
tile operations on that ground ; it was, indeed, hoped at the
time that after the excitement and the ill-feeling had sub-