The Express.
London, England, 1847-06-05 00:00:00

Miens. He did set conaider high salaries essential to a I
peeper admisktratlea of say system. There were kw
saes wise amid 11141 Mi • 1111kr, 3.611181. a year. ( )
Seek seamy weal eras a era Missals unfit ■
fee the per-
lemma eflaelkiel eMke. (Lsegitese.) He galled apes
tie ronomidlar the while quietism bare they
peemeintog with the
Mr. HAWS/ said that, in listhill.eakle le the 41111111 Y ballad ]
been surprised le ladthat the qualities ems viewed almost •
exclusively with reimemes to the Worm* of the mother
country, sad thM bonny say ems of the 1164.
thieve= sad downy remelts ef Leaeemuataa la Ike ademise.
It the sWem had bane to invent sad empty a metre which
would denseelke end degrade the 44111 iii; a /NM effective
system fee that end mould not have beim emmesimid. All the
accounts whisk had been received of the allasktif transporta- I
floe in Nods& Island, In New Sixth Wake, and in Van
Diemen's-lead, lad to the same essehefien. The hon.
baronet °pries. who had spoken that fussing, admitted
that the first stage of the convict's penkihmeat ought to be
passed in this country ; what was sew repred was, that,
at the point where the probations Mak llse=iseiled here, the ,
ticket-of-leave system 'holed been he Ormaportation. I
In 1813 and 1848 both Lord Stanley sad Mr. Gladstone,
after adverting to the evils which had arises np to that
period, declared that a new eastern case absolutely nocemary.
What they meaat, however, by • "new system," was simply
a new penal colony. If a new colony were established, what
security could be afforded that it would be free from the
evils which had hitherto prevailed ? Let not the house sup-
pose that the greatest care had not been taken hitherto to
avoid the evils complained of. The declarations of one of the
ablest governors ever appointed to the government of
New South Wales, namely Sir George Arthur, in
the year 1838, were, in fact, applicable not merely
to previous but to all subsequent systems. (Hear)
If then, the greatest efforts of successive Secretaries of State,
and of the ablest governments, for twenty years to effect an
improvement of the system had signally failed, every man of
Christian feeling, looking to the appalling results of that sys-
tem, must con.ider it • reproach to the country to permit its
eontinuance. They were, batiks, exposed to great diffi-
culties in attempting to continue it. They were excluded
from New Zealand, N, -w South Wales, and South Australia;
they had petitions from Van Diemen's Land stalest it,
and a strong popular feeling was springing up in
thou. colonies against any convict system. Two peti-
tions, each signed by upwards of 3,000 persons, had
been presented from New South Wales, prarag the
house and government not to renew transportation to
that colony ; and likewise a memorial to her Majesty to
the same effect from a body of operatives who stated that
the abolition of transportation had diminished crime, and
added to the peace, the morality, and the welfare of society
in that colony. New, no amendment of the system would
satisfy these parties; and to establish a new colony without
some security against a revival of the evils of the system
would be manifestly unwise. The hon. baronet the member
for Droitwich said that the judges were generally hostile to
the plan of the guy, rainent. Many of them, on the con-
trary, had suggested that great improvements might be
Made in the present system; and Mr. Baron Alder-
son went so far as to say that he questioned the
right of this country to make our colonies the recep•
taclee of that vice aed crime which we refused to
confine within our own shores. Another point not yet touched
upon was, that a proper system of prison discipline at home
would be far more economical to the country, as well as
beneficial to the convict, than transportation to New South
Wales : and this the hen. gentleman exemplified by quot.
in the calculation of Mr. Miller, the governor of the
Glasgow prison, wbo stated that the excess of expenditure
cf transportation over imprisonment at home for
twelve hundred convicts for four years, the number being
about three hundred annually, was no less than 177,9001.
The coat of the convict establishment in Van Diemen's Lend
was between 500,000/. and 600,0001. a year. Taking that
expenditure for two years, it would build prison', at home,
and leave a saving of 92,0001. The cost of an individual
convict for four years and a half, being the time that he
was under the government under the existing system, was'
1011. The cost of the convict for two years in Pentonville,
being the time that he was to be a charge to the government
under the new plan, was only 771. 19s. The advantage,
therefore, with regard to spew*, was in favour of
the proposed system. There was, also, another
great advantage under the proposed system, namely,
that if it did not make the prisoner better, it could
not make him worse ; whereas, under the present system,
the prisoner left the jail a much worse character than he'!
entered it. This had a v,ry great influence on the state of
• crime in the country. There was no doubt that a change
was necessary in their transportation system ; and, for the
sake of their colonies, it became indispensable toput an end to
it. It was sapposed that this system might be amended
• by what was called the assignment system ; but the house
, would recollect that that system pow essed all the evil* of
slavery, and had excited an opposition in this country that
, could not be resisted. It was not the intention of the govern-'
• ment in proposing a new system to east any reflection on
former ones, but he hoped that the house would see that it
was impossible to continue the present system.
Mr. -NBWDEGATE moved the adjournment of the
debate.—lt was accordingly adjourned to Monday next.
In answer to Lord Ma/lON,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that on Monday the Lord-
Advocate would bring on the Scotch Registration Bills;
and after that he proposed to proceed with the adjourned
debate.
Mr. HINDLEY moved that the following members be a
Select Committee on Sunday Trading in the Metropolis :
Mr. Hindle y, Sir W. Somerville, Mr. Pitt, Mr. Alderman
Copeland, Mr. Brotherton, Sir De Laity Beane, Mr. Cowper,
Mr. C. Berkeley, Lord R. Grosvenor, Mr. Wakley, Mr. B.
i Wall, Mr. Walpole, Mr. Newdegate, Mr. Alderman
Humphery, and Mr. M. Sutton.
The House then adjourned at half-past twelve.