The Express.
London, England, 1848-03-15 00:00:00

INII'ERIAL PAILLIAMEN I'.
HOUSE OF LORDS. TUESDAY, MARS 14.
The Loan Cussicattott took ttii •cat at 6 &Mock.
PUBLIC BreINESS.
EMMONS. —By Earl Eel cimit ea, Irvin a clergymanet the
Church of England, complaining of the wanner In which the Loge-
fdastical Comodisioners administer the funds of the Wawa/I.—By
Lord liceeLrt, from certain inemuers ot
ether kWh Church, complain-
ing of the way la which Kolt.i.etical ocay rated im the poor-
rate to Ireland.
SECOND ItEADlNO.—Passengers DAL Cosnerts.—Audlt of
Railway Accounts Bill.
AUDIT OF RAILWAY ACCOUNTS BILL.
On the motion of bud blowritaota the Audit the
Railway
Amounts Bill passed through committee, and the house re-
sumed.
PASSENGERS BILL.
Earl GREY, in moving the secur,d reading of the Pawn-
gem Dill, entered into a .hurt explanation of the measure,
which was exactly similar to that given in the other house of
parliament. The noble fart urged upon the linuse the im-
portance ot not delaying the bill, as the emigration season
Woe fast approerhinit.
Lord S IANLEY would not object under the circum-
stances stat..il by the noble lord to aeient to the second read-
ing of the bi 1, with the unoerstauding that he was allowed
to resery : hie opinion upon the details until the house went
into committee on the measure.
After a few ob.ervationa from Earl FITZWILLIANI and
Lord MO\TC.toLE the bill was read a Pet end time.
The house adjourned at a quarter past seven.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-TUESDAY, MARCH 14.
The SPRAYER took the chair Kt 4 o'clock.
PUBLIC Iik'SININI
Sir W. CLA,, !1,1118e1b.-•

In fAvonr 54

PETITIONS.—By • o ir
G. oes
ea •
the Jewish Onabilities Bill. lord Brerie. trom DenUnek,
afainst altension ot the navigation laLord AiwrinaL and Se ears,
seeeral petitione in favour or the Roman Catholic Belief Bill.—Sir
w. Vassal., truth a place in the north of In4and; Mr. M•Gaiimaii,
from forum monsters and eldi re of the church of Soutland; Mr.
Tosteamme, from Cheater; Mr. Fusses, men tlw presbytery of
Edinburgh: K. Isuite, from St. John's, Weibull-if. ten, egalne
the Diplomatic Resume itleurt of RowelDill—Mr. Cuums, from at
meeting held at the City of London Meek rri; Mr. EwasT, numerous
petitions from ...atom; place*; Sir E. livelier, from the society of
k'nende; Mr. Illatm, Dust StoCkuOr.. ; Mr. M`Classua, limn Loudon
and another horn 4i istmineter ; V. 50.04, from de,tmouth, and other places; tol. Toone-we, from Lndon jaid another
front Weetmineu r ; Mr. Leonean., trout ))estuzinsterMr. J. Wit-
UM., from Simsbury ; Mr. ticornearox, from Reading and other
pleas; Mr. )low., from Gloucester, ; air J. ClioLisat is, )rum Ltooln.
shire; Mr. A..Liostiv, front Coelerinutith ; Sir 13. Iles, Iro:M
lebone, in fieette of the analition ut the punishment ef dee
WOOD, • petition cowl/Lining of the interlerenoe of the Marlisisi
Exeter at the late ilieuon tor stunford, stating Unit • Ilan.
act of his tenants Menai; net
for Mr. Kell era immediately mad
with notice oi ejectment; alio that the ruaretua used his ingemese
against the interests of the town, and pre) Mg tor inquiry. On Thurs.
day nest he would move the petition be printed with the voett.r.
order to found a motion upon it.--11r. Deserivau rsven
from Owes in Meer airaiwr the guveniuent bid of landlord end
tenant tit IreLane.,-s.r It. Vi.xesv, ham Beata* Mr. Cali/WM.
from Liverpool, in favour of the Public Health BilL—Mr. Memomeas
from St. Anna, Soho, emceed intramural interinente.—Mr. W.
O'Coesoa, from J. Shelley, a soldier of long
complaining of his net having received the gratuitry=
medal to which he believes Malted enutied.--CoL Twitioint,
from Lincolnshire, lutanist an) inernoe in the military establishineuts
—ATluslravGccaat, from attmneye of (Siemer ; Mr. Hui% from
attorneys of Olosiceeter, in favor Cl the etiolation of the certificate
duty.—Col. Dimes, several petitions from various parte et Ireland,
praying foe inquiry lota the working of the Four Law , Ireland) Act,-
Mr• liens, from a builder of Foldington,
that the insane SYS.
Sir G. Garr, trout Cumberlaud, praying that tamers might be rated
I.
the tan as ether tradene on their actual probes.
COMMlTFEE.—tlueen's Prison Dill.
REPOMT.—Darnegii Superannuation Fund Dill.
RE71;101 ODOEttEI).—Mr. hue novel fur return of the
naval forces ir. the east induCianpvii)'s rierviee in Italia, in frigates,
corvettes, tinge, g panote, eu.veyiug vee,els, store ,hlw.,
reeeivihg general ehipe, and tenders ; with the number end
ranks of officers and men, European eni native, employed an each,
and their &nu:intent in gime, and their tennage ; ilutinguiebing the
veniels actually' enigoing from thole nut as employed cm the Ist day of
January, lies, and Do let day of January, 1043. , etindar
return of the SWIM force, in steam frigate*, stet= (dove, and steam
packets, troop vessels, gun veisielie Tacna; anti tend. is; the number
of guns, horee power, ant tonnage, with the number and ranks of
°theme and men employed in earn, for Ds same years.
NutiCt; MuTioN.—Mr. 11. D1.1:115001,, on an early day, to
move for leave to bring in a hal for seci.ring compensation to tercints
at will in Lreland.
RAILWAY BILLS.
Mr. STRUTT, in bringing up the report of the railways
committee, stated that the committee considered there was
no necessity
°for iuterfering with trio railway bills of the pre-
sent session an their pi ogress through parliament, but recom-
mended that they might be allowed to proceed on two condi-
tions. 'fhe first was that the committee on each bill should
direct their careful attention to ascertainiag that the standing
orderswere complied with ; the other, diet they should inquire
into the bond fide character of the subscription contract,
and also into tee sufficiency of the subicricers. The only
objection that could be urged to this was in regard to sus-
pended bills ; but as the euuserietion contract would have
to be proved tads scission in those eases as a matter of form,
he could see no hardship that coull result from those bills
being subjected to the rams examination as to the bond fide
nature of the subscription and the eutticieuey of the sub-
scribers as in the mos of new schemes. The right hon. gen-
tleman concluded by moving certain resolutions to carry
out tho recommendatiens of the committee, which were
agreed to.
HARWICH ELECTION.
Mr. S. WORTLEY brought up the report of the com-
mittee appointed to inquire into the petition against the re-
turn of John Attwoed, E.g., and stated that the committee
had come to the following remittal.) s :
That John Attwood, seas not duly elected at the lite election
a burgess to merle In parliament for the borough of Harwich.
'flat the last election for that borough, so tar as respect* the return
of John Attivuod, Esq., was a void election.
That Jain Attwood, Esq., wee by Ms agents guillyof bribery at the
said election'
That it woe proved to the aommittee that Edward Selby was
bribed to Tote Me John Attwocd, Esq., at the a id election by an at:-
same of 411. and upwards wade to aim to en.sble him to pay a debt
due by boat and to rewire bia voyel, whtch bid been nixed ; hut that
It wee not proved that the bribery In this wee was committed with
the knowledge of the said J. AttwomL
That J. Hume was bribed by SD advance of 20/., and J. Knight by
an advance of 161., under the pretence of payment toe low of time
and demurrage of their vessel.', to vile fur the raid J. Attwood, Foci. ,•
but it was not moved that the bribery in these cares was oomtnitted
with his knowledge.
That treating to some extent woo shown to bve p
are revailed at the
said election, but there had been nothing to pru by whew order.
The report was ordered to lie on the table.
DUNDALK ELECTION.
The following members wero sworn as the committee, to
try the merits of the petition against the return of Mr.
M•Tavish for this borough :—Mr. Duncan, Colonel Peel,
Lord H. Vane, Mr. J. E. Denieen, and. Sir J. B. East.
POOR LAW (IRELAND)—THE LOWTIIERSTOWN
UNION.
Capt. ARCIIDALL postponed his motion for callieg at-
tention to the p, tition of the lute guardians of thin union to
that day weik, on the ground that the papers on the subject
had not been laid beim e the house,
Sir W. SOMERVILLE premising to produce all docu-
ments beering on the subject in the meantime.
WINDOW LILEA.KING DURING THE LATE
RIOTS.
Sir W. CLAY wished to put a question to the Attorney.
General. During the rioting which took place last week
some of the permits present at those disturbances inflicted
considerable injury on property in many parts of the metro-
polis. A great number of shop windows were broken, and
these being mostly of plate glees a very large pecuniary
damage resulted. lie w:shed to know whether the parties
suffering this damage had any claim for compensation on
the country, county, or any other party, and it so, by what
process) (Hear.)
The Ant/RN EY.GENERAL : In consequt nco of the
courtesy of my hon. friend in giving me notice of his inten-
tion to put this question, I am enabled to answer it, and to
say, from the exumination I have made, what is the state
of the law in the case. The house is aware that, previous
to the comparatively recent act introduced by the right hon.
baronet the member for Tamworth (Sir R. Peel), a remedy
was given for damages of this kind against the hundred
under various statutes; but by the 7&BG. 4. c. 27. the
statute of Winton, the Riot Act, the Black Act, and the
other statutes relating to remedies against the hundred
were repealed, and other provisions were introduced by the
act 7& 8 Gco. IV., cap. 31. The first section of this statute
gives a remedy against the hundred where the house, shop,
or other building is feloniously demolished, pulled down, or
destroyee wholly or in part; but to come within the defini-
tion of that section the offence must he comelete, according
to the act 7 an . 8 Geo. IV., cap. 30, which makes it a felony
wantonly and with force to demolish or begin to demolish
the buildings therein specified. Bat in the case which my,
hon. friend puts there in no ac ual demolishing nor anything
to satisfy the words, "begin to demolish." And •
where the injury is only partial the hundred
would not be liable unless the act was done under circum-
stances which would satisfy .a jury that the demolition would
have been complete if the rioters had not been interrupted.
Upon this sun jest there are many decisions. One or two
will illustrate the position. In a case where rioters broke
'own and shutters of a house to compel the proprietor
'e, that was held not to be within the act ; " Reid
Perm Reports, p. 49." So al-o in another, where
soltuitarily retired after doing similar mischief.
aborough directed the jury to find for the defend-
L. King v. Chambers (4 Campbell, 307.)" In each
intention of the rioters is a question for the jury,
c ease is the hundred liable unless the demolition is
s, or the intention to demolish satisfactorily 'stab-
(Hear.)
THE KAFFIR WAR.
;HANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated (in
Mr. V. Sri an) that he was expecting information
the late Kaffir war which would enable him to
expense in detail before the house.
..TUGAL, PRUSSIA, FRANCE, ENGLAND.
'ALMERSTON stated (in reply to Mr. HUM)),
ewes no objection to furnish a return of the expense
upon our late interposition in Lisbon; and (in re-
am:HAT), that the Prussian government had in-
, Majesty's government that it was determined to
the same clone of policy—namely, not to interfere
internal affairs of France—(hear, hear)—and ab-
'ern saying or doing anything which might be con-
,to a desire to interfere. (Cheers.)
PUNISHMENT OF DEATH.
ART rose to move for leave to bring in a bill for
4 repeal of the punishment of death. The conviction
inexpediency of that punishment now had seized the
1 mind more strongly than ever, and the time had at
ela arrived when the government and the legislature of
country were expected to abolish a practice which was
Ming in itself, and whose consequences, he contended,
anything but a moral effect. Tho hon. gentleman referred
scene which lately took place at art execution at Clonmel,
`to culprit was launched into eternity amidst the
ez of the people, directed not against the criminal,
against the executioner and the system. Surely such
or, as that were not likely to prtluee soy moral effect
in the public mini. The hon. then read se
last
ve-
extents Leon/ tie report of the cam-ret-. eetee

THE EXPRESS. WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 15, 1848,

the punishment of death time of the amino they found people coneemned to death for
session on the motion of Lord Brougham, showieLthat the for °fames of the gravest kind,
times even acquitted on tbe ground of the harsh nature
n of four witnesses on this point, three of whom some
chaplain of Beading gaol, Mr. Phillips, the crinu lawyer, ought to be retained." Bat the committee had only taken very unequal offences. They would also find that people were
opinb
the judge of the City Court, • stipendiary magistrate in the
Liverpool Mr. Justice Coleridge, Mr. Justice Perrin, and only were in favour of capital musishment being retained ;
Chief Baron Richards, of the Irish bench, and others whose tilouy. Won The ease of the two sisters,
ef the punishment. There were several cases in
wen Mr. Baron Platt, Mr, &Meant Doyley, and the proof of his last pee . . .
their
erley, tried at Taunton, for poisoning own relatives,
dth were very grave objections to capital punishment. was etrongly in point. In another ease,. that of a man who
opinions were entitled to simile: weight, were in favour of
.rd Chief Antic, of the Common Pleas, who, however, B
abolishing the punishment of death, and believed that pub- sai ere
lie executions tended to degrade and demoralise rather than A judge could not well go further than this without com-
nghimself in the criminal cases that might sheriffs and aldermen came forward to intercede for the mum
murdered his fellownervaot at the Guildhall Coffee-home,
elevate the moral condition of the people. He also referred
t of eases, imprisonment for life Alderman
to the steemsful abolition of the punishment in Russia, peornimise ibsifere him.. . Mr. Justice Coleridge had said darer.
HUMPHERY.—No. No aldermen. (Much
in Tuscany, in the duchy of Baden, in Rome, and that in the majon y
' ad sl be substituted for capital punishment, laughter.)
Mr. BRIGHT.—There was another ease of the mum
lastly he referred to the act of the present Previsional Go- might vantamou y
vernment of France. in abolishing capital punishment for en the groun.d that convictions would be obtained with much
of the getter f.elimage of
w was not calling in uestion
lut assizes, several murderers were respned, in consequence
because he had not sufficiently considered the guts
political offences, and provisionally abolishing it fur all other greater certainty. Lard Denman had declined to offer tiny deems of Lord Coventry's gamekeeper ; and even at the
offences. He hoped the house would consent to the intro- opinion, .public against punish-
duction of the bill. ton. Mr. Justice Wightman had alsa expressed a pretty
Mr. LENNARD having seconded he motion, ice of exercising
strong oeinion on the subject. In the first report the opinion mint by death.
..
the
royal et .
of tight judicial witnesses had been recorded against capital the just
Sir G. GREY said he should take the same course he put.- punishment ; nevertheless the committee reported that they these cases ;
elooked . . .
he on every respite that issued
sued last year, of opposing the introduction of the bill, be- hthe people upon this su ject. Even with respect to the moat
muse they were as competent now to form an opinion on the ad found little difference of oeinion se to the propriety of from the Home-office Bebe. furtber indication of the power of
capital punishment being retained. It was desirable that , the prerogative had been ezercised, he
the low, while stern in its ni , stice should be mild in its prac recent ease to which
subject as if the bill were introduced. Had the hon. gentle-
man proposed to limit the number of offences for which capi-
tal punishment remained he would not object to the iatroduc- • time, those who admi- law of the murdered soldier, who declared that &mon( the
lice, inflicting as little suffering on the offender as was con- had only that morning received a letter from the brother-in.
testent with its object. At the same
tion of his bill, but as the hon. gentleman proposed the totalh ent of the law
ought to be averted from
. nistered the law ought strictly to adhere to it; but, under friends of that unhappy man there was the strongest feeling
abolition of the punishment for all offences, no matter now the (+resent system, how often did the mercy of the judge in- that the last penis mthto
sign
petition
great their magnitude, he (Sir G. Grey) did not see thin an
object could be attained by his unctioo for the bill to be laid wit, praming for a mitt ready of the penalty.
Melee. to arrest the tamely hand of the saw ? A stronger the culprit, and that .ey were most ready a
proof could not be advanced that something was wrong in to the ro
Well then, it was clear that it was
on the table. Ile objected to the hon. gentleman's principle. the law itself. The horror that attached to the instrument (Hear, n
He believed that the punishment of death for the greatest ixislti ewes in the gpo" we of any thistle juror
ceimes—he meant wilful and deliberate murder--was Tema- by which the last penalty of the law was enforced—the hang- rineite itneaLie)bl for, the vernment to carry out
man—arose from the Net thatpulffic humanity was outraged. th laws. . . the r
of .
... ~.
site for the protection of society and of human life. The (Hear.) Why draw the cap over the criminal's face if there to defeat the law •it was in power any humane lai
hon. gentleman advocated the sacredness of human life ; but
could he guarantee that if capita punishment ceased murderse any Rome niaretery who carried out the
was not something of which to bz ashamed ? (Hear, vidual to arouse so neech peublic feeling in any particular
hear ) The supporters of this motion could not be ease lia to plat
would not iaerease ? Because, otherwise, that sacredness
would be violated to a greater degree. The punish- ith him most upon this subject was the
accused of sympathy with crime ; their object WAS to pre- law in an awfully responsible position. . But the argument
vent an undue sympathy with the murderer. The moment which weighed w .
ment of death was now virtually limited to casesc reverence for human
1 ' h ents weaken or
of murder. In some cases sentence of death was gotten. Their object was to remove all false sympathy, and life and eta inviolability. Did capita punts m it
a criminal appeared on the scaffold his crime was half for- n. cessity tor strenethenince the publi
recorded without any intention of carrying it into effect, make the law certain and severe. (Hear.) Recently he , (Hear hear.) o
and it might tie adviseble to make the law consistent with had heard of a penny theatre being established in the city of believed t i was most important thet parliament should aoan
strengthe.n that feeling of reverence . . ,
the practice in that reepect. But that was not the question. York, where the entertainment consisted in hanging the don this pum.
The question now was, should they abolish the punishment ' ' all t rmination to the
ethment rather than that juries and the people
effigy of a recent culprit, the real executioner officiating in should themselves virtu y t e
of death in every caws lie thought they ought not, and reopens persona. e• Hear," and laughter.) But the Practice- •
referred to the readiness with which juries invariably con- weightiest and most awful consideration on the question was Mr. F. O'CONNOR, having had considerable experience—
' vatted in clearly proved caws of deliberate murder to show
that there was no reluctance on the part of juries to retain Pc
f observation,. 1 t wee
this—that an irrevocable punishment Was incompatible with (loud laughter)—in the o ration of the criminal law
the notion of a fallible tribunal. (Hear, hear.) This was Wall desirous to offer a
.ew
that punishment as • protection to society. Ihe influence of
a public execution upon those who witnessed it was not a would never tolerate the
no fanciful apeculation :it had been proved that, for • lung his conviction, in opposition to what had been
Wits of years one innocent
inpersou had Men hanged every just said, that the public .
criterion; for, generally spniking, these who viewed as a three „ern 'Sir F. Kelly, lB4l, had placed the average practice of acquitting murderers
pastime the dying struggles of the malefactor could not be unishment
clearly convicted upon the II
much •he had showed that in 50 years 41 pareons had evidence of witnesses merely becaese of the
th
more affected by the sight than by the knowledge that such
a punishment attached to the commission of certain crimes. loom.
been executed' whose innocence had since been clearly estate to which the party might he subjected.. pats as e I
(Hear.) Mr. Baron Parke related an instance of
I lie found that the commitments for attempts to murder for punishment of death went, it seemod to him that great
trm-
five innocent persons being saved by a mere accident. forms wete already being made. There was eow,_ in
obe
I the five years ending 1831, which were the five years pre- (Hear, hear.) The rale of Michael Howard, of Limerick, power to convict of manslaughter, an opportunity sif finding
ceding the abolition of capital punishment, were 450: waa one of those who bad escaped an unjust punishment by a man guilty under circumstances of extenuation. But
in the five years following they were 668 ;
the next five years, 937 ; and in the five &Wiw-
i° mere accident. A great cry of innocent blood rose up whilst regarding with synipathy the fate of the murderer, let
against the existing law. ( blear, hear.) But one tribunal them take care they did not render the life el the public less
quest years 1089; while for rape they had increaaed from had the prerogative of palming an irrevocable sentence—that secure. With regard to what had been said in favour of !
'252 for the first period, to 597 for the last period of five tribunal before which every human being must appear. lie secret executions he hoped the country would never again
years, showing plainly that tho abolition of capital punish- trusted that every hon. member who had not convinced hear of such a proposal.
merit for these crimes had caused their increase. With re- himself of the necessity of capital punishment for preventing Mr. 0. TtIONIPSON extolled the motives of those who
meet to the crime of arson in dwelling houses and on hoard murder would support this motion. It sus no answer to P
ship, the capital punishment had been abolished in 1837, and etitioned this house in favour of the measure now proposed
say that proof was wanting of the efficiency of secondary for their adoption. in
contended that no one not propo
sed
after that there had been a temporary diminution in the punishments fur this pureose ; the onus probandi lay on the of the infallibility of judgment, solely vested in omniscience,
number of those offences; but in the live years ending in other side. (Hear, hear.) Let not hon. members think should dare to wield the sword of omnipotence.
1846, the numeer had increased to 581 as compared with 212, that he question might be as well decided next year ;if Mr. DRUMMOND observed that the argument derived
the number before abolition. In like manner with respect
to forgery, the number of committals for the five years end-
they had a doubt, let them decide in favour of humanity. from the fallibility of human judgment might, to more or
(Bear, hear.) Were the law abrogated it would be looked less extent, be directed against the infliction of any punish-
ing 1831 had beta 312; for the five years ending 1336, 350. back upon, five years hence, with as-great horronas we HOW ment whatever. lie contended that there was no fear so
In 1837 capital punishment for this offence had been abo- regarded the capital punishment [tor forgery sand other effectual for the repression of great crimes, as the fear of
tidied, and for the first four years ending 1841, after creme.. (Hear, hear.) death. He strongly deprecated the mawkish sentimentality
abolition, the commitals had been 564, and for the five Sir R. I SOLIS could not agree in many of the mieitions which had been growing up on this subject, and whet, was
years coding 1816, the number was 731. With regard to
burglary capital punishment was abolished in 1837, except in of the noble lord. He fully concurred in his strong Wimp. encouraging jurors to violate their oaths an 4 to abandon
probation of the questions put to the judges respecting a their duty to God and m en, by a preposterous sympathy
cams of violence to the inmates, and the number of commit- law which they were called on to administer, not to justify with all the mimes who were brought Mime them.
tale for burglary, for the five years ending 1835 (that was er condemn. (lieu, hear.) But it ought to have been Mr. NAPIER said that every portion of our law, as it
before abolition), had been 1,060; while for the five years
ending 1816, the number had increased to 2,701. As to added, that all the judges of Ireland and two English judges existed, manifested the tenderest care for the life of man,
were unanimou•ly oppesea to the abrogation of capital pun- the utmost cautinn that, without the clearest evidence of
murder, for which capital punishment had been retained, ishment—at least by legislative enactment. As to the right deadly crime, no life should be sacrificed; hut the existence ,
he was happy to say there had not been a corresponding in- of man to inflict capital punishment, he thought that might of such crime being proved to the judgment td those called
crease. for the returns, on the contrary, showed that the bo deduced from hs ministerial office iu reference to the law upon to try offence., there could be no real doubt that the
commitments for murder for tne live years ending 1536 had of God. It was asserted that the Christian dimensation had divine word delegated to man the punishment of crimes
been 6.55, while for the five years ending 1846 they feud been mitigated the Leviticea law, which said, " Whosesheils Man's committed against man, ape that this punishment might be
611. Reference had been made to the evidence trisect before blood, by man shall his blood be shed." Ile denied that the extended to death in those cases for wbich divine and human
the select committee of the Hone of Lerds, moved for by law of the Old Testamet had been abrogated. There was no law assned that last penalty.
Lord Broughaiu, on the subject of the criminal law, but mention in the Word of
God of the reformation of society Mr. UROTHERTON, who spoke amidst loud cries of
that evideace did not bear the construction which being the reason for the infliction of punishment. Ile would " Divide," protested against the question being argued on
Jut been put upon it. Mr. Justice Coltman und Mr. be no party therefore to any law which would deprive the the ground of expediency. lie contended that as man had
Justice Wightman had only given qualified assent to the law of Gad of the sanction of the legislature, or rather he no power to give life he had no right to take it away.
abolition of
the puaishment of death, and the great majority would not be a party to any law which w 3 inconsistent Mr. biUNTZ remarked that the very wont use you could
of the English judges were in favour Sc its retention for the with the Word of Gest. A meat reform had takua place due- make of a man was to hang him. (A laugh ) Ile was
crime of murder. 'l'he whole of the Scotch judges were so, ins late years in their criminal law, and in his opinion many influenced by no morbid sympathies. If he found a\ man
and so were 8 out of 10 of the Irish judge; and h trapeort laws had been repealed which ought to have been re- breaking into his house he would shoot him. (uch
of the Committee of the House of Isorels stated " tht re- tained. A great deal had been said of the evils of public laughter.) But that was a very different thing from hang-
spketing the expediency of abmishieg capitol punishments, executions. Ile did nut think that was a euffieient reason in a man in cold blood. To justify hanging you must
the committee had found scarcely any difference of opinion,
all parties agreeing that for offences of the gravest kind the for abrogating the puuishment of death is all cases. The law prove that it revented crime. And there was no proof
wadedcu admtered, and the hat punishment wpa not that that was the result. It was far better that one
punishment of death ought to be retained." 1 hese were the
grounds upon which he felt bound to oppose the motion of inflicted except is very bad eases. But if they were to abolish thousand guilty men should escape than that one
the punishment of death what were they to substitute in its innocent man should be hanged, and they also knew
his hon. friend the member for Duinfries, and he hoped the pace? It was not enough to pull down. They must also build how fallible juries were, and that innocent men had
house would concur with him in resisting the motion. up. One gentleman was opposed to transportation, another often been convicted on circumstantial evidence. Except in
Sir C. BURRELL was understoml to express his recalcitrated against solitary confinement, and all those who the case of punishing by death, they might in wime amerce
entire coucurrence in the views stated by the right hon spoke in favour of the motion differed amongst themselves remedy the injustice of a false conviction ; but if they
baronet at the head of the Home Department, and added with regard to the pate
the that should be substituted hen ged a man they could not uwhang him. He knew what
that he hoped the day would never come when the criminal for ire Believing that the magistrate derived the power of it was to be tried by a jury. Ile had been once tried by a
jurisprudence of the country should be so altered as to fail to inflicting deaths tor the crime of murder from the law of lin'T tor an offence of which he was as innocent as the
give protection to the lives of the virtuous and the right- God, and seeing no substitute for it even in a worldly Speaker of that hoase—(hear and •• laugh)—and let that
minded, and secular sense, he should resist the motion of his hon, jury had determined beforehand to convict him, and would
Mr. B. OSBORNE thought great merit was due to the friend. (Hear, hear.) have done so but for the charge of the judge.
hon. member Inc Dumfries tort he great pains and ability he Mr. HUME said that crimes changed with changes of MnIEWART shortly replied, and
had devoted to the subject; tor though he (Mr. B. Osborne), manners &ail characters. The hon. gentleman who had The house divided—For the motion 66
was not prepared fully to agree to the whule of the scheme just spares relied chiefly on tho Word of God, but Against it
proposed,.still he thought it would be right to mit the he (Mr. Hume) denied that any text of Scripture could be COMMITTEE ON MILITARY EXPENDITURE.
bill, and m • futum stage tO eoalidler whether hadim quoted giving authority to one man to take away the life Sir H. VERNEY moved an insruction to the select
law in its execution might not be made more humane than it of another. " I will have mercy and not secritice," were committee en the navy, army, and ordnance estimates to
now was. Above all things, he thought it most desirable to the words of God himself. Ile also said, " Thou shalt not consider whether the character of the navy and army might
get rid of the disgusting exhibition,' and public executions, kill," a command which he believed referred to the taking not be elevated by the more frequent employment of die-
which, so far tram deterring other from the commission of of life as a punishment as well as to the crime of murder. charged sailors and soldiers, who are duly qualified, in sober-
crime, only rendered the people who witnessed them more He had never seen an execution but once, and then twenty dinate offices of various public department., for instance, in
callous and hardened. If capital punishment could not he persons were hanged together, for crimes which had been the cuetoms and excise, offices under the Admiralty and
abolished, he thought it might be carried into execution subsequently bletted from the statute book as punishable
within the precincts of the prison, before proper officers. by death. (Hear.) Ile believed that iii all countries where an that additional horse Guards, dockyards, victualling-y dard s, arsenals, &e.,rospect of reward for merino-
On the whole, he should vote for the introduction of the life was held cheap by the public authority it was held
Moue conduct might be held out to sailors and
bill. cheap by the people. ( lieu.) Wherever executions were
Mr. LENNARD said he had seconded the motion of the frequent receless assassination and murder became mat- soldiers, and that during their employment a por-
tion of their pensions might be saved to the country.
bon. member fur Dumfries; because, while he admitted the tern of course. He believed that society had been better Whether means see afforded to the troops for spiritual and
question was not free from difficulty, ho was disputed to conducted under the amended system of punishment which
make an experiment as proposed. The state of Ireland of began with Sir S. Remaly, and he believed that if moral inettuction, particularly to those on active service in
India. Whether sufficient provision is made for the tonsi-
-1 itself suggested the necessity of some change ;rues here, in he were alive now he would support the motion of his hon. lectual employment and instruction of soldiers in barracks.
spite of the existing lews, the most dread:ill murders and IS- friend. His reprewntative,the hon. member fer Devonport,said To consider the best mode of applying the proposed grant of
seminations still continued, Mowing the. the puniehment of that all executions were evil, and yet they were defended Oa 150,0001. for re-organising the militia, and whether
death was insufficient to deter offenders from the commission examples to society. It was well known that murders had
of these—the gravest of crimes. Belic•ing that great good been committed which had originated in the beholding of that force appears to be the best that can be de-
vised for the defence of the country in time of war.
would result from making the experiment proposed, he had public executions. (Hear.) lie was opposed to executions; The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
seconded and now supported the motion tor the introduction in private, because they would then be little short of acts think it would be wise to impose on the committee the duty
*Ethel bill. of revenge. He believed that every execution was an injury of inquiring into thesubjects referred to in the motion,though
Kr. Alderman SIDNEY regretted that the right hon. to the state, and led to others of a similar nature. He would he did not mean to say that the departments to which they
baronet (Sir G. Grey) bad thought it incumbent upon him therefore support th
motion of the hon. member for Dana related might not properly turn their attention to them.
to oppose the motion, because he (Mr. Alderman Sidney) fries, Mr. HUME thought it was necessary the house should
thought the time had arrived when the matter might be Mr. WOOD said that he had given a serious and early at- have some knowledge of the matters to which the tom-
fairly tested. Ween serving the office of sheriff of London tension to the subject before the house, and he came to the mince were really to turn their attention.
he had witnessed the painful and demoralising scenes which conclusion that it would not be expedient to &holed' the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
public executions had presented, and it was his firm convic- punishment of death for the came of murder—a conclusion committee was appointed to investigate this department of
tion that they were productive of crime to • fearful extent. to which he would not come if he believed that the taking the public expenditure.
The hon. member detailed some circumstances with respect away a man's life was unauthorised by Scripture. The sa- Sir 11. VERNEY then withdrew his motion.
to recent executions, with which the public are already ermines.% of human life was the object they all had in view ;
familiar, and added, the governor of Newgate, Mr. Cope, but their feelings were likely to lead them astray as they KILLING OF IIARES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
had that day informtd hun that, during the fifteen years he viewed the subject from Dec point of view or the other. He Mr. MACKENZIE ontained leave to bring in a tall to
had been governor, every criminal executed during that thought that the vindictive element of the punishment of iers of land in Scotland having a
enaele owners and oceup _ ,
time had admitted to him that they had been present as death ought to tie eliminated, but he had not heard a single right to kill hares on that land, to do so themselves, or by
spectators at previous executions—all, with one solitary ex- areument against the right of the state to take care of all its such persons authorised by them, without being required to
si
ception. Oa all the grounds stated, he Mould vote fort the citizens in the Menem of their privileges, that of life itself. take out a game certificate.
minion, believing that if an experiment of abolition were He thought that no method of preventing the crime of REDUCTION OF SALARIES IN STATE DEPART-
made, even for a limited period, much good would result. murder was so effectual as that of the frightful punishment lIENTS APPOINTMENTS.
that she
Mr
Mr. ROMILLY remarked, that it was quite Clear that of death. There were two objects in punishment—the pre . HUMS moved an address to her Majesty,
the object of all parties was the protection of human life. It vention of the crime, and the reformation of the offender. will be graciously pleased to direct, that in all appointments
appeared to him that the crime of wilful and deliberate With regard to the punishment of death, the latter con- to office, in every department of the state, both at home and
murder stood Ore very different ground. front any other eideration was out of the question ; but with regard to the abroad, the appointments be made subject to a reduction of I
offence, and if death was nut the punithment, it must of prevention of the crime, they did not merely prevent it for salazy end allowance, and even to the abolition of offices, if I
necessity increase. Became an offender nowt,
committed a the sake of the community against whom it was Callnalttetl, such be deemed necessary, after a careful inquiry into the
burglary, with violence to the inmates, he was liable to a but also for the cake of the clam of Persons hy whom it Waa state of the finances of the country, in order that in cases
punishment equal to imprisonment for lite with bard labour, likely to be committed ; those who from want of education— where such reduction of salary or emoluments, or such &M-
-end if that punishment only was allotted to murder, he and in that respect he feared they had much to answer for— lition of office be made, no claims for compensation be
unded thereon,
would have the inducement to commit that crime as the (hear, hear)—or from the bad example of their parents fo
means of preventing his detection by the evidence were prone to crime. They had, then, to consider what mode The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did sot
of his victims. Oa them grounds he was not Pre- of punishment was most likely to deter them from crime, think it advisable to addrese her Majesty on the subject,
pared to go with the honourable member for Dumfries. lie feared that those who were disposed to commit the although he admitted that the spirit of the resolution was
He could not forbear a remark on the disgraceful exhibi- crime of murder would not be open to other influences th a good, and ought to be carried out. He could only say that
lions which took place at executions. (Hear, hear.) It was those of terror and the punishment of death. And itseemed the rule in granting appointments in the Treasury was, that
desirable that executions should not take place in public •
m to him to be perfectly consistent with the most earnest love in any change which might result from any pending inquiry
the knowledge that conviction would be followed by death of man to deter him (rem the commission of crime to which no compensation should be given.
was sufficient ; the public exhibition itself produced a mast art evil disposition might lead him by the prospect of such a Mr. HUMS said he would withdraw his motion if the
demoralising effect. (Hear, hear.) lf, on sentence being punishment. One of the three greatest poets of the world, g The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could only
overnment would promise that that rule shoals) be general.
pronounced, the criminal were taken back to prison, never Dante, made one of the condemned souls say—
more to appe.ar in public, that would have a much better Tdas created by Almighty power, speak of the department with which he was connected.
effect; and if, instead of the tolling of a bell, as at executions, e highest week.= and primeval love. Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the government did not at
at present, notice were given ot what was going on,
that He would not say that theme who supported the motion were all object to the principle of the hon. gentleman's motion,
would be all that was necessary. Sufficient security ;night actuated by a morbid humanity, but he believed them was as they considered it would be extremely improper of the
easily be provided for making public the fact that the crimi- amongst a large portion of the community a revulsion of government so to use their patronage so as to cause the least
nil had expiated his guilt with his life. Mie ar, hear.) He feeling—the effect of their former severe criminal cede-- obstruction to any pending scheme of economy ; but to its
thought the present movement against capital punishments which now shrunk from what appeared to him to be a present form he could not consent.
generally was a reaction arising out of the indifference which lawful, proper, and consistent mode of punishment. He Mr. HENLEY approved of the motion, but thought that
had formerly prevailed as to that punishment. At present, believed that an increase of crimes followed where the pun- the best course would be to postpone it until the noble lord
there was a most injurious sympathy with criminals ; ishment wee re moved. Capt. Maconochie stated that, after at the bead of the governmeet should be present.
the public exhibition of an execution had a sort twelve executions had taken place in New South Wales of Sir. HUME said he would withdraw it for the present, re-
of charm for some vulgar minds, and led them bushrangers who had committed crimes attended with mu- serving to himself the power of reviving it on a future oc-
to seek that distinction. This would be effectually prevented den, those crimes had ceased, and the remedy had been maion.—Motion by leave withdrawn.
by abolishing capital punishment in all cases except for de- effectual. It was a remarkable proof of the efficacy of the BOROUGH OF HARWICH.
liberate and wilful murder, and allowing executions to take punishment also, that after the late executions in Ireland am Mr. BAGGE moved that a new writ be issued for the bo-
place in private. (Heu.) sassivations and murder had ceased in that country. (If ) ear. rough of Harwich in the room of John Attwood, Ese., un-
Sir G. GREY explained that, in the bill which he meant There had been same very alarming instances recently of seated on the ground of bribery.
to prepare, he would continue the capital punishment in public feeling upon this subject. Perrone had been records Mr. BLACKSTONE opposed the issuing of the writ, on
eases of ferocious attack with an evident intent to murder mendd to the mercy of the crown whose offences were of a the ground that a special report had been issued by the coca.
but where, by superior medical skill, the party had been; very hetnous character. It would be probably said that the mittee appointed to try the merits of the late election. He
restored. cause of this was the harsh character of the punishment. considered that the practices which had for some time pre-
Lord NUGENT said he had listened with great attention He believed, on the contrary, that it was not the harshness veiled in Harwich, were such en loudly to call for the Inter-
to the speech of the right hon. the Rome Secretary, and he of the penalty, but the publicity given to the execution, ference of the house ; and that, at least in the present in-
thought he had taken an imperfect view of the statistical am which raised the sympathy of the public. The proper stance, nothing should be done until the special report and
=of the hon. mover. From the Portian law of the course would be for the criminal to be taken from the bar, theevidence in the h elsof(Hear.) The
were an member.
down to the code of Duke Leopold, and in more and never to be heard of again, save through the official hon. member proceeded to quote the evidence taken before
recent times, it had been shown that crimes of violence had communication that he had suffered thee penalty of the law Mr. Roebuck's committee, more especially that of Mr. Bag-
inceeased or decreased proportionally with the increase or in presence of the proper 01 merse For thew and other ref- shawe, the then unsuccesaful candidate for the borough.
decrease of violent punishment& With one exception, in sons he had come tot he conclusion that it was impossible to That gentleman stated that in the contest in which Ise had
I our own country, the crimes for which the punishment of support tae
bill of the hon. member, and he should come- been engaged Mr. Attwood spent 6,0001. Sir D. Le Mar-
death had been abolished had decreased. That exception quently vote against its introduction. chant 1,5001., and himself 5001. That about 'thirty voters had
was criminal assaults on females ; and the fact of its being Mr. BRIGHT thought he was able to discover an in- obtained government situations, and that there were more
an exception arose from there being more Prosecutions and creased interest in the dismission On this subject within the Harwich people holding similar appointments than there were
convictions since the capital punishment was done away ; house, and he thought he could venture to say that there actually voters in the borough. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr.
previously to that time the usual course being to indict was a very gently increased interest in it out of doors. They Blackstone) considered that in the face of such testimony, and
' only for the common assault. The same remark am had not been charged, on this occasion with "morbid feel- after the recent decision of the committee, h
ense would
plied also to the crime of cutting or wounding,
men" and "sickly sentimentalities." The hon. baronet the do well to pause before it allowed the elect of Harwich
with intent to kill. If there had been an increase in thus ember one Oxford congratulated Mr. Romig with not again to exercise the franchise. He moved, therefore, as
crime, it was a proof that capital punishment did not deter haying gone further upon this subject thanhis father did. He an amendment, that the issuins of the writ be postponed
from ita commission. (Hear, hearn With the question of (Mr. Bright) should be glad to lknow what ancestor of the until the 10th of April, and that in the interim the minutes
authority he would deal very lightly. Passing by the opi hon. baronet had equalled him in his political opinions. of evidence taken before the committee be laid on the table,
nions of philosophers and judges all which proved the inefli- It seemed to him that this punishment of death proceeded Lord D. C. STUART supported the amendment. Ha
cum of the punishment of death' to prevent crime, he would on an erroneous idea of what were the feelings of people wished that the house could devise some plan by which
merely refer to those of some of the most eminent lawyers of likely to commit crimes. The threat of eternal punishment bribery and intimidation at elections might be done away
the day. In the second report of the lords' committee on which was sounded every week from 20,000 pulpits in this with.
criminal law the subject was treated very lightly ; they country did not deter from the commission of creme : how Sir G. GREY said he had not been aware until that mo-
merely remarked that, " respectingthe expediency of capital much less, then, could the threat of punishment by death merit that the Harwich committee had made a special repart.
punishments, the committee finds scarcely any difference of deter ? (Hear, hear.) Let the house really ask themselves He thought that the better course would bee
toil postpone the
opinion ; almost all the witnesses agree mthe opinion that what the threat wee. If they looked over newspapers at the issue of the writ (without fixing any day) unt

-----------
taken before the committee should be is the hands of mem-

hers.
Mr. ACILIONBY considered that the report of the com-
mittee made out but a rery wen& CAN, for the virtual
disfranchisement of the borough. Out of 180 voters, the
committee had reported only one single ease of bribery.
Mr. COBBOLD, as one of tke constituency, vindicated the
general body of the electors of Harwich from the charge of
bribery and corruption.
The ATTORNEY•GENERAL suggested that the evi-
dence might be in the hands of members to-morrow (this
day) when the motion could be renewed.
Mr. BLACKSTONE was willing to postpone his motion
until the evidence was printed.
Mr. BADGE said, that seeing the feeling of the house, he
should withdraw his motion.
The motion was then by leave withdrawn.
ITREATY OF ADRIANOPLE.
Mr. C. AN STEY postponed the adjourned debate on the
treaty of Adrianople until Thursday next.
The house adjourned at quarter-put 12 o'clock.

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