The Express.
London, England, 1851-07-18 00:00:00

CARDINAL WISEMAN AND THE LAWS OF

OP MORTMAIN.

Yesterday the committee of the House of Com-
mas appointed to inquire into the laws of mortmain, met,
and their room was excessively crowded during the day
from the fact of its being known that Cardinal Wiseman
had been summoned to give evidence. There was a great
crowd of members of parliament, clergymen of the church
of England, catholic prOots, and no small number of ladies.
The committer consists of 18 members, of whom Mr. Head-
lam is the chairman.

The chairman, addressing the cardinal, said: The commit-
tee have referred to you as the best authority probably on
the subject of catholic matters in this country, wishing to
know )our opinion on the law of mortmans, as it affects
property devised to catholic communities. Do you consider
that the cstholies of this country look upon these laws and
the administration of justice by the tribunals of this country
with distrust 1
CarslinalWiseman—l do not. _

The Chairman—Do you know of anything aeon which
the catholic' of this country object to our present laws of
mortruain

Cr!uaina Wiseatan—No, except it be property devised for
what are called super.titions uses—manes for the dead—
which inswilion of what is culled the established church
may look urea as superstitious, but which catholies do nut
SO ruuider.

The Chairman—lf:eve catholic' say objection to the ad-
ministration of the sail laws in reference to their rho-
ritable trusts as ore administered in a protestant com-
munity ?
The Cardinal knew of no objection, and then went on to
say that in the ease of money devised for the purpose of
saying masses, the money, unless it were a very small sum,
did nut go to the priest in the way of • small sum, as a
personal gift. in which case it was lett with the priests. The
larger sums were invested in the name of trustees in the
usual way. Ilad known such a sum as 501. to be invested,
and the uses to which such moneys were applied were for
the endowment or Lunilation of a new church, or to the
establishment of some ministry in connexion with it. In
the ease of a person entering a convent a preeioas contract
was entered into with reference to their property. Some-
times part of the property was given to the convent and
part to the relations. in the case of persons to whom
money was bequeathed while they were inmates of the con-
vent, it was not in this country always considered that it
became the property of the convent, but it was, generally
speaking. at the disposal of the party herself to give to raw
bans, std he hail known cases in which that had been:done.
'f lie Chairman remarked that a case had occurred in Bel-
gium, where the sureriomss of the convent had tried the
question of the right oh' the convent to property bequeathed
to inmates of the couveat, to which
The Cardinal replied that that was in Belgium, but in
this country the persons had a legal right to dispose of any
property left them.
'I he Chairman asked whether considerable dissatisfaction

had nut prevailed among the catholic' a4w.yeaT;;;Orc I
reference to the law affecting trusts of property for chari-
I table purposes.
The Cardinal replied that some bills hail been introduced,
one under the auspices or Sir J. Romilly, but it was a
question whether it was not an unfriendly bill, and he op-
posed it or did nut coincide with it. lie (the Cardinal) had
nut pledged himself actually to any bills introduced,
but he thought a different feeling now prevailed, and
that the catholic' co/aimed as they were. He did
not think the catholies were favourable to any
legislative interference in matters of this description, as
they had had some lessons from late events, and looked on
legislation of that kind with distrust.
In answer to further questions as to the power of the
propaganda affecting spiritual and temporal questions sub-
mitted to their jurisdiction from this country, and as to the
power of the catholic archbishops upon marriage matters,
the Cardinal said he bad already explained his views on
those matters to previous committees of the House of Com-
mons, when he had given every information in his power,
but at the prescut moment he was under entirely different
circumstances. An act, a deelarat,ry act, was pending be-
fore the legislature of this country, but which was to be
retrospective in its operations, which rendered him liable to
certain pedtelties, or to the information of any common in-
homer, in case of his acknowledging any official communi-
cation with the see of Route. On questions, therefore, relating
to subpsts which would require his admission of communicu-
tions with the see of Rome, he must respectfully decline to
give an answer. The Chairman observed that whatever was
satd there would have the protection of the House of Com-
mons. The Cardinal replied that that did not alter his opr
He had known eases where the protection of the
House of Commons did not avail. Was not aware that any
portion of funds bequeathed by the catholic community
for charitable purposes was not administered strictly
within the intention of the donor, and it was not within
his own knowledge as regarded any property over which he
(the Cardinal) hod control. Property, in some instances,
might be applied nut improperly, according to the spirit
rather than to the letter of the bequest. A fund might
' be applied to a purpose analogous to that fur which it was
intended. If a priest of the catholic church received
' a legacy, it was his own property, and if the case was in
England, he treated it just as he pleased. If he (the Car-
dinal) had a large sum of money given him he should apply
it to his own purposes, and not altogether or specifically to ec-
clesiastic-al purposes. In the case of gift') of tills kind to priests or
prelates of the catholic church the di.i11.1431 would be dic-
tated by their own conscience and according to the ties ope-
rating on them. If he, the cardinal, had a legacy left him
of 1,0001. without uuy particular conditions attached, he
should not consider it was necessary to apply it to any par-
ticular purpose. With respect to secret trusts and the
secret disposition of property, was of opinion measures
might be taken to secure their application to ecclesiastical
purposes, and he would much rather have it so. Always
individually in matters concerning the bequeathal or dispo-
sition of property acted under legal advice, and according
to his sense of duty. As regarded the main question before '
the committee, and its relation to the catholic community,
was of opinion that a question might arise as to whether
the laws of mortmain us opposed to any other laws were
just. Judging front his own conviction of the policy of the
mortmain laws, and that they were not in accordance with
other laws, dal nut think it would be indispe sable to insert
clauses in any measure rendering publicity in all matters of
charitable bequest necessary. 'I hought that may legislation
that affected the charitable trusts of any other bre:), should
give equal security and protection to the catholic body, and
was nut prepared to say that there should be any clauses
exempting catholic'. The property of Roman catholics
in England generally was in land rather than money.
The above is the substance of the cardinal's examination,
many parts of which, owing to the crowd and from his back
being turned, it was difficult to catch. At three o'clock his
eminence, bowing to the committee, who acknowledged it,
left the committee room with the Rev. Mr. Serie, his secre-
tary, and was followed along the lengthy corridor by the
crowd until he: reached his carriage in l'alace-yard, and
drove off rapidly.