The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-06 00:00:00

THE NEW GUNPOWDER PLOT.

On the order of the day for the committee on ways and
means being read,
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said, I wish now to put the ques-
tion of which I have given notice to the noble lord, the
Secretary for the Home Department. I wish to ask him—
two informations having been lodged against Mr. Hal*,
manufacturer of war rockets—whether it is the intention
of her Majesty's ministers to advise the Crown to ap-
pear to the seconl information laid under the provisions
of a law of William 111., in the year 1697—(hear,
hear)—entitled an act to prevent the firing of squib*,
serpents, and other fireworks ? (Loud laughter.) Now
in asking this question, I will state shortly, not only
my reasons (or asking it, but Mao how the facts actually
stand as regards thidefendant in this case ; and I think I
shall be able to prove that never was so absurd or ridicu-
lous a prosecution instituted us political grounds in this
country. (Loud cries of " H. ar, hear.") Now, air, as to
its being instituted fur political purposes, and on political
grounds, I appeal to the noble lord the Secretary far the
Home Department himself, who I think admitted the fact
in his place in this house. Kossuth complains of being
libelled in the Times, but I think that the noble lord, the
Secretary for the Heine Department, might complain
with much better reason. (Loud cheers.) It is only
two years since this house passed a resolution
of approbation of the noble lord's foreign policy. I had
the pleasure of voting for that resolution, but en
what was it founded ? On the :independent lino adopted
by the noble lord in his communications and dealings with
foreign countries. (Loud cries of " Hear.") But now the
Times praises him, and in this case the eulogy of the
Tamer is • libel, for it means that the noble lord
is not after all so anti-Austrian in his sympathies as
was supposed. (Hear, Lear.) Mr. Halo has had two in-
formaions laid against him, the first ?Most under what is
the Ounpowder Act of Geo. L
of 111. ,'der that art
.. he was
se:et:need to pay a penalty of 2s. in the pound on lbe of a
composition which he had maintained, and which the trade
generally maintained W 34 not gunpowder. (User, nose

ILI short, nobody thought it was gunpowder mill it wee
lumghtto Brer•streek - Mr. Male had in his possemion,
phon his prtmites were broken into, 241b5.,0ut be was so-
knotwledged by the magistrate to bo a trader, and as a
trader, be was entitled to have in his pommies 200 lbs.
Unfortunately, Mr. Hale, who bad, is the Ant in-
wanes, been aiming on -hie works clued to Woolwich
Arsenal, removed 40 ROthilthitiill, whorahe violated the act
by being within three miles of the City of London, as it
appears that no man can make powder within three miles
of my right bon. colleague the Lord Mayor and the e
ration, lest by any chance that distinguished and val:a%
body might be all blown up. (Load laughter.) Under
these circumstances Mr. Hale was condemned, het another

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question arose as to whether the imposition produced was
really gunpowder or not. Chemical witnesses were exa-
mined, one for the government and one for Mr. Hale. Dr.
Ure, on the part of Mr. Hale, said it was nothing like gun-
powder. Mr. Hoffman, for the government, said it was
but the manufacturers from whom Mr. Hale obtained it,and
who, I believe, manufacture also for the government, said
that it
by the trade. (Haar, hear.) Well, Mr. Henry takes
time to consider his judgment. He goes home and rushee to
Ma " Encyclopedia Britanoics" to end out what gunpowdes
molly Is. After three days he comes down again to court,
AIM Mt my a word of the evidence of Dr. Ure or Mr. Hoff%
mina, but finds oat that the composition is really gunpowder
according to the " Encyclopedia Britanniea," because for-
moth our ancestors were in the beta of using gunpowder
in an ungrsusulated state. (A laugh.) His worship said it
was only is these days of progress that gunpowder was
granulated, and forthwith he granulated Mr. Hale to the
tune of di. 14s. (Loud laughter.) That was the tai of
state prosecution number one. (Laughter.) I sew itenle
to the proof that these were seats prosecutes.. Mr.
Bodkin, the counsel for the crown, said that there

was another information to which the attention of the
magistrate would by and bye be directed, and with
which circumstances were connected which would commu-
nicate quite a new character to the proceedings. Every
one knows that it was intended to identify Y. Kossuth, in
some way or other, with these transactions. (Hear, bear.)
Mr Clarkson sesgested that it would be better to try the
question before the court, although he was satisfied that the
mind of the mightrate would not be isithetned by anything
that was to Mow. Then came the second information,
rare .;ft the vat explosion, with which Mr. Hale and
Himenth inemoM to subvert all the gweernments is Europe.
New, soder whet law was this second information laid ?
Under an act paged in the 9th year of William 111., 1697,
an act which I will venters to say—except for a few yearn
subsequent to its passing—has been a dead letter, and
asleep up to this day. (Hem, hear.) And here is what I
complain of, and what the people of England complain of,
that in the present day a state prosecution should be car-
ried on under an act entitled "An act against throwing
squib", ',vast', and other fireworks." (" Hear," and •
laugh.) Now, under this act there can be no doubt that Mr.
Hale Me been guilty of a violation of the law, he admitted
it, and every ens will admit it, but so has every one who
an make rockets or fireworks for Vauxhall or Cremorne.
(Cheers.) Why, there is not a Inciter matelt maker in
Lesion who is not liable to prosecution under this act.
Bat who ever thought that a political prosecution would be
'agitated under it? (Hear, hear.) Well, the case was
gain brought before Mr. Henry, who was most pro-
bably ashamed of the whole proceedings, and three or four
Mamas were examined. Three or four Hungarians—no,
net Hungarians, but political exile", who had been merely
eldest' of charity in the eyes of M. Komuth—were used as
whatnot_ *gnat him. The first of them bad already re
Wad Beglialt hospitality on the treadmill at Maidstone
Gad. (Lad laughter.) That was one of the hon. and
issued er-General's witnesses, and there were two
Olt ONO WNW Germans who were not much better. They
hat all bee* sent as objects of charity to.hir. Hale, on the
understanding that one of them—the Prussian thief.,had
Itemerly been employed in the artillery, and knew some-
thing of rockets and squibs. A great deal was made at the
investigation about his being desired not to talk of what
we puss on in the rocket factory; but I believe this was
messy ,as he wee in the habit of associating with
riembote vagabonds, who might misrepresent, and who it
appear' did misrepresent, and by whom the government was
grossly deceived. Mr. Henry said he would not decide
summarily in this case, he was again bewildered, but in this ,
ale he could get no help from his " Encyclopedia Britan-
nia," and so be sent it over to the Surrey magistrates at
cession, who sit close to Vauxhall, and are therefore sup-
posed to be very good judges of fireworks. (Laughter.) So
this state prosecution is now before the magistrates under
the act of parliament, of which I have shown the house its
teens and original object. I would ask, is this a worthy
entree for the government of a great country to take ? If
Hr. Hale and Kossuth have been guilty of any conspiracy
to levy war against any country with which we are now in
amity, I say indict them at once. (Cheers.) But if they have
not, don't rake up an old act of parliament which has slept for
160 years even with regard to the making of ordinary fire-
works. What is all this for? Nothing can be more un-
palatable than this to the people of this country who look
upon the whole of this transaction with unmitigated dis-
gust. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") I believe that no
prosecution could be more damaging to • government to
which every one on this side of the house wishes to give a
fair trial. The impression is that all this is done to please
the Austrian government, and there is strong evidenee of
that in the foreign papers• and this is a point to which I
wish particularly to all the attention of government. There
recently appeared in a Frankfort paper an article on the
subject, which was translated into an English paper with
the heading " English police the spies of foreign despots."
The Frankfurt paper gays "It Is now confirmed' that the
Prussian police " (Here the hon. member, who read with
some difficulty, was interrupted by a general cry of
" Light.") I want to throw light on the whole subject.
(Laughter.) " That the Prang= police were most efil-
Measly assisted in the late political arrests In Berlin by re-
peated communications from the police of London, without
which many of the discoveries might not have been made."
You eosin this " proof of the good faith of the British go-
vernment who, through Lord Westmoreland, had assured
the cabinet of Vienna that for the future the refugees
should be watched, and an exact account kept of their
movements." What will Europe think of England, and of
theed state to which she is reduced, if this 'be not
(Loud chew.) It is quite right that
the miles of London should communicate to
vete sevemments information respecting refugees whohad
Bed un sealant of felony, or some other heinous offence,
bit May have no right to communicate with foreign go-
vernments on political subjects, or respecting political
MIMS either here or there. Bat to show that
Alnelint =mat had something to do with this,
tbae sgpg.eJ in the Augsturg Gazette, of the 14th April
mad termiliabar that lisle's rockets were seized on the
tillb—en ankle headed, " Munich, April 12," to the
diet that In Landon revolution was allowed to takecounsel,
In prepare desnestin weapon!, rockets, M. Now there
met have been mess esemanication between certain par-
MOW, and hodon mem, and after all the Times is not
Ht mon when it says that this government,
urged by the government of Austria, Is deter-
mined to carry out their views with regard to political
. Now, air, I think that the best communication
Mr Donk make to Austria or other power', when
they make their applications to watch political exiles, would
be to give them • little advise, sad to tell them to look at
the free institutions of this eenney, aid to say that the
mafiscatious of Lombardy ad the ereftee which lately
=elMilan and Mantua an net Me best means of as-
m affections of their eithiane—ibear, lanz)—and
that, me to following oat any inetruniem with Impart to
spying over the conduct of patient relnpes se ether per-
sons in this country, sash a scene weak not be submitted
to by the people of Insiend. (Lind cries of " liar,
hear. We want no Hainekyebra ; and it is
for that reason I would ask bar Majesty'sministers whether
they think it worth while to pluses this prosecution
any further against Mr. Hale, under an ant of parliament
passed in 1697. The queeties I have to ask the noble vie.
want is this—Whether Meng, I may say, failed in the
first prosecution, they recovered penalties to the
amount of 61. 145., of enlist am-half goes to the crown
and the other to the laugh)—they think it
worth while to any this peamention any further; and
whether it is their 'Meatiest to proceed against any pences
whether native or foreign, ea the matter of the second in
formation ; or whether they do not think the law sea.
Mostly vindicated by the proceedings which have already
r 'aka' PALMERSTON—My boa. friend has Mated this
foam/ with his usual mixture of jocularity and argument,
and eseleinly if any obsolete set of parliament could be
raked up against moral squibs, I am afraid that he would
ems under its operation. SChsers.> My boa. !Tien
sharps me with being again an instrument of foreign
'powers, for the purpose of watching over political fugitive'
In this imatry, end in support of hie view be quotes pas-
sages nom various foreign as well as from English news-
reels's. Now I beg, in the first place, to disclaim any
rerponsibility on account of anything that may be mid of
me either to any papers British or foreign, and if my hon.
Mead's attention had been directed as much as mine has
happened to be from time to time to passages in foreign
newspapers in which my name was mentioned, I think
he would have found the weight of accusation or calumny in
them very different from that which he has quoted. I wee
told the other day that in a search made in Italy, • set of
daggers were found, of English manufacture, and that the
authorities were indignant at the detistable and diabolical
conduct of the man who was Foreign Minister in Eng-
land, for that on these very daggers his name was inscribed.
On the blades were the words, " Palmer and Son." (Great
laughter.) What • detestable revolutionist must this man
be who sends daggers here with his own name inscribed.
But my hon. friend has indulged in a great deal of humour
with regard to these prosecutions, which he says I am
about to proceed with. I beg to inform him that these pro-
secutions were not connected with a few pounds of
gunpowder used for making rockets in an ordinary
manner, but I was informed that at the place
was a great collection of warlike stores accumu-
lating, and that under circumstances of seamy. This
tended, with other circumstance', to show that there was an
object concerned which was beyond the limits of this country
and the ordinary and legitimate business of commerce. I
felt it to be my duty to inquire whether these proceedings
were or were out contrary to law, and I was informed they
were. I thought, therefore, I should be neglecting
my duty did I not take such steps as the
law authorised for the purpose of putting a stop to
these proceedings. I hold that in doing on I consulted the
honour and dignity of the country, as my colleagues had
declared both in this and the other house of parliament,
that while on the one hand foreigners when taking refuge
hers are entitled to every possible protection of the law, on
the other hand it is the duty of the government to prevent
such foreigners, or British subjects, from commencing pro-
ceedings aimed at the tranquillity of foreign states. I hope,
Omaha., without entering iato proceedings which are
stilt pew:us, tLat i have not (acceded my duty