The Express.
London, England, 1847-02-09 00:00:00

people were falling day alter day in increasing numbers ; and
there was no remedy but to get food wherever it could be
• got, and at whatever expense. If the Irish people were
under their power as subjects, let them now use that power
;ener ou.ly, magnificently, he would even say enormously,
to order to rescue the country. They knew that the Irish
poor could do nothing for themselves, that they weld do we
thing without the aid of the landlord,. Let them r.collect
bow many estates were in chancery, how many were in
the hands of persons who were not the owners;
let them remember thet Ireland had no legislative
power of her own ; she was in their hands bound
dawn and tied in a helpless position; they alone could
save her, she could not save herself. " I solemnly pro-
test that it is my sincere conviction," told the hon. and
learned gentleman in conclusion, " that one-fourth of the
people of Ireland will perish unless you recue them."
Sir B. HALL wished to make a few remarks in allusion to
what had fallen from the hon. and learned gentleman. He
had obtained returns from the boards of guardians of two of
the largest metropolitsn parishes, which showed the amount
of destitution to be very great in the metropolis. In one of
'them, the population being 139,405. the number
of out-door recipients of parochial relief at present
on the list was 6,817, in-door 2,070, niek.ng a
total of 8,917, or one-sixteenth of the whole p mutation.
lu the p vedi of St. Pancras, the population being 130,000, the
total number of persons receiving relief was 10,431, or
teeter. and • half per cent, of the whole population. The
number of deaths was also exceedingly high ea compared
with tinnier periods. Now the hon, and learned gentleman
said that Kngland was responsible for what was taking place
in Irel end. He differed from him on that euliject.
Knowing u they did that the potato crop had failed, the
-Leith landlords were responsible for the present misery, if it
could be shown that they had not made proper provision for
feeding the people. (Hear, hear.) The statements of the
assistant poor-law c graimioner, Mr. Otway, respecting
Connaught, showed that the responsibility rested with the
landlords. It appeared that in the Westport. Cestlehar,
Balboa, and other unions, the rates had not been collected
seen from those who were able to pay. Mr. Otway said, in
reference to Castlebar: " Asking as rates are justly due from
these who can pay them, it is unjust and absurd to call
upon the government to contribute." While such • state of
did/. existed, he (Sir B. Hall) maintained that the respon-
sibility did not rest with the parliament, but with the land-
feeds of Ireland. Suppose that in the principality
of Wales the poor were allowed to be in the same
data, because he and others refused to pay their
rates, or suppose that wnen a gentleman in Wales
went out by his park-gates, he saw cottages living in
hovels, which were not fit to be the dweiliog of a dog :
would not the finger of scorn be held up saainst them, and
would they not be objects of execration with everybody in
this country ? (Hear, 'hear.) Whilst there were resources in
Ireland, the landlords were bound to apply them for the relief
of distress, and if those resources were not sufficient, the Eng-
lish people would be ready to afford aid. What, however,
were the facts ? The workhouse of Balling was capable of
holding 1200 persons; on the 4th of January only 309 were
located there. Ballinrobe afforded • similar instance.
There no rates had been struck since 1843 or 1844, with
the exception of one in 1846, amounting to about
3,0001., of which only 1,1001. had hem collected;—
the collection was not, in fact, proceeded with, though it was
admitted that there were persons capable of paying the rates,
but who refused to do so. Where did the responsibility rest
if not with such persons ? (Hear, hear.) Look attain at
the union of Cutlehar. There were persons of large pro-
perty and great influence in that district who refused to pay.
He thought such persons ought to be held up to the execra-
tion of the country. It had been stated that even Lord
Lunn was one of those who had not paid his rates. The
property in the neighbourhood of Skilthereen was estimated
at 50,0001. a year. Sir Randolph Routh gave the names of
the owners. Lord Cerbery had (as wee understood)
15,0001. a year; Bir William . Beecher had a large estate;
yet the rates were not paid, and Sir Randolph
put a question which he should like to hear answered by
Irish members—" With such pro,terty as this, with such re-
soling as these, ought such destitution to exist? " It was
of no use, with such facts before their eyes, to come to that
house and toll them that the landlords of Ireland were not
reprehensible. He was pleased to hear what had fallen from
the hon. and learned member with respect to the poor-law.
At • meeting held at Old Peace-yard, where Lord Mont-
eagle presided, that noble lord moved a red elution condemn-
ing the clause in the Irish Destitute Relief Bill which gave
• discretionary power to afford temporary relief at the expense
of the union. lie should like to know at whine expense
relief should he given ? They should par a law
compelling the Irish landlords to do their duty.
The landlords did not appear, in many respects, to approve
of a permanent Poor-law Bill. That was what the house
wished them to approve of, and what it must make them
accept. It was pitiable to Rea: the aged and infirm
seeking relief, but it was, if possible, still more pitiable to
see able-bodied persons in the same position. By
passing this law, they would compel the landlords to pro-
• vide work for the able-bodied poor. An honourable baronet,
• who represented a Scotch district, had told him that
• in the part of the district which he represented there
were, two or three weeks ago, 230 persons receiving relief:
and that of that number there were only six Scotch, all the
rest being Irith. It was very easy for hon. members to de-
mand from this country rapport and maintenance for the
Irish people, but it was unfair and unjust for the landlords
to send the people away, instead of maintaining them.
(Hear, heir.) He should be very very, if in the course of
his observations he had stated anything at all offensive
to the Irish members, hut representing cue of the largest
constituencies in the empire he had felt it his duty to give
expression to their sentiments nod his own. (Hear, hear.)
• lir. M. MILNES said that if any proof were required of
the truth of the statement of an hon. and learned member
that the house did not comprehend the extent of
Irish misery, it would be found in the speech of the hon.
• hart. (Hear, hear.) The English nation and parliament
were called upon to intervene in one of the most singular
calamities that had befallen any country in Europe during
the last three centuries, and with respect to which it was
in vain to draw arguments and conclusions from the or-
dinary course of measures. He might presume to speak
of the state of Ireland more readily than others, inasmuch as
he had himself, with his own eyes, seen the distress in certain
parts. He said certain parts, because it should be borne in
mind that it was not spread over the whole surface of the
country, but confined to certain districts. The remedy,
therefore, should be partial in its operation. He should re-
menusead the most careful consideration of the poor-law;
. for on the right solution of that question the future pros-
perity or adversity bf the Irish people would depend.
The hon. hart. had spoken of the destitution of the metro-
polis. Now, he did not wish to draw comparisons ; but he
must my, that if a pauper died of starvation in the streets of
London, the public press took the matter up, leading articles
were written upon it, and the case was put in the strongest
manner to excite public sympathy and awaken public hor-
ror. Why, then, he would ask, was such indifference ex-
hibited, when people were dying by thousand. acrosathechan•
reel ? Was it because Skibbereen was 200 miles to the west of
London Snch a feeling would not be exhibited by the
capitals of Germany or France towards any part of the em-
pire that might be visited by a similar calamity. He
objected to having exceptional cases brought forward
• upon such occasions as the present. Because Sir William
Beecher, a proprietor of Skibb.reen, might not have
given as much res he ought to have done, were the
inhabitants to be allowed to perish ? (Hear, hear, hear.)
He took the liberty of saying that this was not the moment
to bring forward exceptionable eases It might be that there
were unions in Ireland in which the rates were not paid ;
but the hon. member should have rather contrasted these
• exceptional eases with the cues in which the rotes had been
paid, than have cited them as the prevailing rule. (Hear.)
It was not fair to make that house and the country believe
that in this extremity of Ireland's misery the exception was
the rule. And this feeling it was which made him take
strong objections to the speeches delivered in the house
during the present emotion by his hon. friend the member for
Bath. Those speeches might contain truisms; but he (Mr.
Milnes) could not but expel' his opinion that it was not
decent —( Hear, h ear) —that it was not decent at that moment
• to objurgate the landlords of Ireland as his hon. friend had
• ebiurgated them. (Much cheering from Irish members.)
treat misery and destitution always find sympathy in the
hearts of honourable men—(Hear, hear)—and he (Mr.
' Milnes) was Fore that in stating what he had done he was
• anlyexpreming the feelings of the benevolent and honourable
vople of this country. (Cheering).
Mr. P. SCROPE thought that his hon. friend, the mem-
ver for Marylebeine, had been misrepresented. He had
sot understood him to say that the people of It eland should
not be relieved, but that, being in need ourselves, it was
right that we should ascertain, before we afforded relief to
Ireland, that all who were peculiarly interested in the pro
perry of that country had done what was right towards their
own tenantry. (Hear, hear) He (Mr. P. Scrope) must
my that he very much concurred in the hon. baronet's views.
• He thought it would be quite right to inqnire whether it was
or was not needful to pan such mensures of compulsion as
would make the landlords of Ireland maintain their own
• poor. He perfectly agreed with the hon. baronet that the
people of England would not be satisfied to pass hills lending
large sums to Ireland unless they had some security that the
landlords of Ireland would maintain their own poor hence-
forward. There vets no reason why they should not do so.
The rental of Ireland was 15 millions a year; the exports of
Ireland amounted to 17 millions a year ; and every one
knew that her undeveloped resources were enormous and
that by. proper improvement her land could be made to
maintain three or five times the present population. He
joined with the honer able baronet, therefore, in urging
the government to attend to the opinion of those out of
doors who thotieht it was right whilst they were moking
!argues towards Ireland, to do what they could to prevent
the Irish from again being a burden to this country. He
was ow that evening to hear the hon. and keened member
for Cork express opinion. not unfavourable to a poor-law
for Ireland. If the hoe, and learniel member had agitated
that qui miss instead of the repeal, for the tut six yeare,
would, indeed, have done good to hie country. It was a
question on which the hem. member for Cork had fre-
hjuently cheneed his views, but on which he trusted that,
henceforwards his present opinions would prevail
Lord DUNCAN had been requested by many of his meet
influenti 1 constituents, to confirm the slew* expressed by
his hon. colleaeue (Mr. Ito, hurk) with reepeet to their ford-
ings oa this subject. IL was desired to soy, that many pees
ple in Bath were in a state of great distress; hut that the
public authoriti. s were united in their determination that no
case so horrible An death from starvation should oc-
cur within their town. They coiled, however. upon
the government t see that all moths throughout
the Ueite Kingdom who were interested in the welfare of
the peer. fulfilled their duty equally satisfactorily. (Hear,
hear.) It was the more important .that the government
RtiOuvi a'tead a t i• when they re ad such reject. as were
eolnithed upon au•holity in the blue hook now b. hire him,
with n fereete to the proceeding of landlords in In 1 intl.
In tee case of the Castlebar union, they read of bird Lunn,
M. O'Mall.. Me 1C0mm.... --A ,h. tmmediste