The Express.
London, England, 1847-06-02 00:00:00

by thew three messages was 97,760, who, with their families,
gave a
total of only about 500,000 individuals, who would
thereby removed from being • burden on the poor-rates,
lonia, still 2,000.000 of persona ID a state of destitution
for 10 weeks out of the 5. His next consideration was,
r ogitsie eulonisation could be used as one of the means for
an improvement in the condition of Ireland. The
reds losi at the head of the government had expressed a
boo rat ea improved cultivation of land would follow the
operation of the new poor-law. But he (Lord Lincoln)
appreheoded that that improvement could not take place so
long as there existed such a minute subdivision of property
in so many—be believed he might say in meat, parts of t
country. More than one-half of the persons rated for the
relief of the poor were rated under 41. per annum. Accord-
ing to the census of 1881, Ireland contained a population of
8,171.000. Its screen was 20,808,000, of which 13,461,000
• enble, „,1 „.230,000 waste. Oa the arable lend
thethere were located 1,945,000 , of whom 834,570 hem
dam one to 60 acres ; 505, from one to 10 acres ; 317,000
Item one to five acres ; and 135,314 persons with not more
dies sae acre. Now, so long as land was held in that man-
ia,. he tOIICCiTeCi it to be impossible to have that necessary
raftlion of crops, or that improvement of stock, or that em-
ployment of skill and capital which were so essential fur the
gradual advancement and general prosperity of agriculture.
When officially connected with Irelaad he paid a visit to the
estate of the noble lord, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs—
an estate to which he had no reluctance in referring, as it
was managed with the greatest liberality and generosity—the
only error being, if error it were, that the noble lord invested in
it too much money. The parish in which it was situate and
which included besides, an estate, also well managed, belong-
log to Sir It. G. Booth, contained 16,410 acres, • considereble
Mcertainly being mountain, the annual value being
la., the population 8,750, and yet the quantity of land
under corn cultivation last year only amounted to 432 acres.
The nature of the tenancy of the land in Ireland had
heretofore rendered it impolitic for the state to interfere.
But that difficulty had been got over by the present calamity,
which had removed the indisposition on the part
of. the people to abandon their small tenancies—the
difficulty now being on the part of the landlords
to induce them to continue. Within the last few
days he had been told of a landlord who, having
afforded the means of emigrating to Canada to nearly 1,000
persona on his estate, was immediately pressed by 2,000
more to grant them the same boon. He was as strongly op •
posed as any hon. member to compulsory emigration ; but
he was fur facilitating it by every legitimate means, and for
placing no limit to it bat that which the equalisation between
the capital and the labour of the country would present. He
did not dispute the opinion of Sr R. Kane, that Ireland was
capable of maintaining more than double its present popula-
tion, provided that measures were adopted to improve the
social oendition of the people' to create a better cultivation
of land, to open the mines and fisheries of the country, and
te establish manufactures. By these and other means, he
admitted, that capital mightbe so invested as to give employ-
ment te such an immense population as Sir IL Kane con-
templated. But what he (Lord Lincoln) contended was that
under existing circumstances, there must first be a temporary
reduction of the population, to enable them to effect that
object. He proposed colonisation, with the view of giving
employment to the people. It was objected that he would
send the bone and sinew of the country away, and retain
those who were exhausted and weak. Thew, on the con-
trary, he considered fit recipients for relief under the poor-
law act. What he cemidered was that there was a redund-
sacs of able-bodied labourers in Ireland, whom, with a due
regard to the interests of the country, he wished to see esta-
blished in another region. Every committee and commission
that had been appointed to consider the social condi-
tion of Ireland had one and all more or lees strongly
advocated colonisation as one of the means calculated to
afford relief to that country. The committee of 1830 consi-
dered emigration as peculiarly applicable to Ireland as a
remedial measure. Lord Devon's Commission expressed a
similar conviction, and the second report of the relief com-
mission, presented so lately as the 15th of May, contained
opinions which led to the same conclusioa. He had no new
project or plan to propose to the house ; but he felt it kis
duty briefly to review the capabilities of some of those
colonies to which emigrants from this country might proceed,
as well as some of those plans which had been proposed, but
without advocating specifically any one of them. The hon.
member for Gateshead, in bringing forward the subject of
colonisation as necessary for the relief of Ireland, alluded
to Australia as a bright example of success, and of what
might be done with a barren wilderness by means of colo-
nisation in ten years. He admitted it ; but when they con-
sidered that the labourers could only be introduced into that
colony by the produce of the land sales, and that the passage
money was from 151. to 171. a head, he did not think Aus-
tralia could be rendered useful for the purpose he had in
view. The same objections applied to New Zealand, although
he admitted that in reference to both the case was worthy of
inquiry. But there was Natal, on the east coast of Africa,
which had not of late years attracted its due attention, which
contained at least 6,000,000 of acres totally uncultivated,
whose clients was suited to the people of this country,
where iron and copper existed in great abundance,
and where, it ought not to be forgotten, they might
by ancouramnis 'mention, eivilin at some future time other
regions of Africa. The circumstance of so eminent • man
as Sir 11. Pettinger having been sent out there would afford
facilities for in miry, which he hoped would be taken
advantage of. But their attention might be more particularly
directed to the nearest colony of all, and to which all plans
were applicable—namely, our North-American
where there was abundance of food, and great llatrts,
unoccupied, although not unappropriated, land. It was a
fact, hemmer, that the individual who were in pemesiea of
those appropriated lands were in the constant habit Olathe
them, from necessity, at a much lower rate than thane
which still remained in the hands of the government. He
would refer to a few figures to show the rapid advance
of this colony, and how beneficial had been the result to
those who had Rome there. In 1820 the population amounted
to only 500,000; in 184.5 it had • 1,600,000. But the
1.170 f trade and commerce was still more striking.
5 the exports of flour amounted to 96,000 barrels,
while in 1840 they were 800,000, besides 500,000 barrels,
which were detained in store at Montreal, owing to the
freezing up of the St. Lawrence. But this was not all, for
the impwts (rota the United Kingdom amounted to 9,000,0001.
annually. The wages of labourers (and this had a material
Dearing on the question of Irish colonisation) were 2s. 6d.
and 2s. currency per day, besides lodging. Without violating
the principle which he hail laid down for himself in the
rrre*of his dress, he thought he might allude to the
m M
address,
plans of emigration which had been brought before
the home and the public. The first was that of Mr. Gibbon
Wakefield, which wan, as it were, a self-supporting plan, by
the sale of lands, and the ••tion of the proceeds to
the emigration of labourers. He (Lord Lincoln) did not
think this plan suited to Canada. The price of land in
private hands was too low, and the labourers had facilities
and temptations offered to go to the United States. Then
there was the plan of Colonel Torrens, which was laid down
in • pamphlet he had lately published, it being a modifica-
tion of that of Mr. Wakefield, and in which there was
much to commend. It proposed that the expense of emi-
gration should be paid by annuity derivable from the capital
invested in labour. He feared the operation of this plan
would not be extensive or rapid enough for what thfrhad
in view with regard to Ireland. Then there was the of
the right hon. gentleman the Judge Advocate, w he
brought forward an 1843, and which he proposed in order to
obtain for Canada the benefits of the plan of Mr. Gibbon
Wakefield, and which might be characterised as • plan foe
the resumption of land from private partial In • manner not
dissimilar to that adopted by the_ geveresent this year
with regard to waste leads in IthissA. Another plan
was that of Mr. Sullivan, • member et the executive council
of Canada, which propelled that the t outlay
should be repaid by the We of pleb of bad reserved and
intermixed with thelgarMwis of the misebis. Then there
was the plana's& in a pamphlet *dished by Mr.
Godley, which lielater* of Inds* and Canada
in view, was be give stimuli:is to the demand for
labour in /Whir Nadi thdel. It proposed that for the
hat the mists* Arabi week for w
h aesd
, and that on
eitelsments they & re sold be ndeg re attractive by
era lOW sad eMllsed ofd, and by provision being made
thdr are* and rend well-berg. Then there was the
pica of the RAW earl at re Wed of the colonial department,
tibia he priori OR the Nth of December, but which on
mire osider bed beta abandoned. It pro.
posed le WM altos dr migrate at the expense
of lie poommor. a* Is rod them out at once
and halts= by a spar el roastitoodat. He mentioned
Ass plan ad will a view of *Ur advocating or lege.
elating any the el dim, but .sly to show that there were
pier, nth varying her tie *Oar, which ought to be ear
aired by or eastedries whir was appointed. He Wild
be allowed* and* ere plea which was not in print, r
beim the pular and us which he wished to direct the
attention of W geneamest. It must be in the knowledge
el tie noble Lest the hied of the government, and of the
bar prisms the Hader Secretary for the Colonies, that a
wee prejaatad been Halifax to Quebec, which passed
the centre of the province of Nova Scotia, through
the Mart ad the worthies of New Brunswick I where there
were upwards of 1,000,00114 scone ed Birdie land in possession
of the government), and tam* potions of Lower Canada,
along the line of the Si. Lawny" until it reached Quebec.
It appeared to him (Lard Linda) that this railway might
be made, not only of ineonomoi to the colonists, but of
national importune both in • canntercial and military point
of view. As mud* he sessmoroial value, it was well
known that the raviotir hem England to Quebec, by the
St. Lawman was wiry alreediewn besides, its danger sloug
the there of Cape Bream, Than shipwrecks were constantly
oscordles, owl any tsar by which it could be avoided
would be et ormunereld advantage to the colonists. Then as
regarded lb national yneqmce this railroad ran somewhat
along the line of the , as settled by the treaty of
Lid dabbwann, and 017141—""military ports would be
established. The railway weedd be formed at a low price,
as the land was to be bud kw nothing, and the sleepers to be
obtained only for the cutting them down. Another dean-
tags would be gained by it—as long ago as in the
discussion on the Quebec Btu, in 1791, Mr. l'itt and Mr.
Burke appeared to contemplate measures for the amalgamation
of those provinces, and their consolidation into one North
American British possession; and nothing could 'mist this
more than the establishment of this railway. The construe-
lion of the railway would else afford labour to emigrants,
while these who were employed on it might at the same
time be preparing the land on which they intended to settle.
One important point in the considering the question of emi-
gration, was that of the expense. This he might evade, as
hehad only brought forward • motion for inquiry; but at
tt name time he felt bound to say that he was not one who
believed that eolonisatien could be so effected as to cent
nothing. It would not be right or candid in him to propose
• =mean of this kind, and leave his opinion on this point
ia the dark. He felt that the greatest good would be effected
by colonisation but Its also believed that there must be out-
lay, and that large. He was not an advocate for trea-
sury grants or loans for this purpose. He had
sliesdy stated what he apprehended would be the

cost of • poor law is Ireland, and taking what was the
largest amount of expenditure for colonnation, which was to
bs looked at as capital, it would be a smell ISM compared to
that which must be looked at as interest which must be paid
for the population of Ireland. There were great differences
of opinion on the question of the expense of emigration. By
some it was mid that 251. a head was requisite for emigration
to Canada, while by others it was to be dote for nothing, and
try others at 4/. or 5/. • head. On this point Mr. Sullivan
mid that "Mr. Smith O'Brien stated that Mr. Robinson's
settlers cost 221. ahead, and if 51. a head was deducted for the
muse, it left 171. for other expenses; but he was not afraid
to say that a third of that sum was sufficient." It might be
mid that if money, in the shape of grant or loan, was to be
spent, it would be better spent in Ireland than in
colonisation. It was only necessary; in answer to
this, to look at the demoralising effect of what
had been dons +1 Way in Ireland, and consider
ones, sue moat.. spent on colonization tended to im-
prove the people and to change their habits; and while
the expense of the maintenance of the poor in Ireland was
ever recurring, in colonisation it was concluded at once.
Few persons would be found to maintain that if there was to
be expenditure it would soothe better to devote it to this pur-
pose than to apply it hereafter on public works for pummels
of relief. He had seen it stated that an extended system d
colonization to Canada was impossible, because the supply d
food was not safticient ; but there had been a surplus in the
supply of flour this year of two millions of barrels. Although '
there was sufficient freight to transport the average number
of colonists that now emigrated (about 50,000 a-year), it was
said there was not sufficient for any increased number ; and
if there were any increase it would have a
visible effect on the freights, which would rise se
greatly as to add very muck to the expose,
of emigration. In 1845, there were 1,505 ships, with a ton-
nage of 593,000 toss ; end, in 1846, there were 1,585, with a
tonnage of 600,253 tons, which left the ports of Great Britain
▪ Ireland for British North America in ballast. Taking
the tonnage of the year 1846, it would give accommodation
under the regulations of the Passengers' Act, to 363,000 emi-
grants, and even with a large deduction for the nnseaworthi-
nese of vessels, there would still be accommodation for about
300,000 emigrants. Besides this, 1,085 ships left the ports
of Great Britain for British America with cargoes which
might have carried passengers; and this was without taking
into account the increased number of ships which were at-
tracted into the trade this year by the price of freight for
corn. But without railing the price of the present freight,
there would be ample accommodation for 300,000 emigrants.
Another objection was, that the Irish made the wont col--
nists. If the Irish had been hitherto shovelled, as it had
been called, out of estates, and that was the cause of their
emigration, it was no wonder that they made bed emigrants.
But he would nit if that was really the cue ? (Hear, hear.)
Had it not been refuted by testimony and by facts ? Almost
the only gratifying feature in the deep distress which had
prevailed in Ireland was the large remittances which had
hem sent from the other side of the water—(hear, hear)—by
emigrants, to assist their friends in going over to America.
No on., last year, had the question been asked, would have
unfazed to name one-twentieth of the sum. This was a
proof that the Irish, when removed from their own soil, and
placed in a position to exercise their industry
and talents, throve equally well with their fellow-
countrymen. But there were circumstances credit-
able
n themselves to the Irish, which canoed
them to Sock into the towns where they did not get be-
ond the condition of hewers of wood and drawers of water.
They were unwilling to go into the wilderness where
they would be far from the means of religious instruction.
He believed that the character for indolence which was
attributed to the people in the West and South of Ireland
mem ham circumstances, and was not inherent.
He samara) that it should be the opinion of some per-
.s* that than was such a difference between Celt and
Mane.. (Nam, hear.) He did not admit it. lie would not
say that there was no difference, or that the Celt might
not be superior on one point, and the Saxon on the
other, but he denied that there was any thing in the blood
of the Celt which incapacitated him from industry in the
colonies, or, certain external circumstances removed, in his
own country. (Hear.) He might appeal to hon. members—
and if the hon. member for Sunderland were in his place
be would appeal to him—whether, on the great works with
which he was connected, the Irish labourer was not one of
the beet ; and he would ask other hon. members if, in fur-
vest time, the best labourer they could employ was not the
Irish ? Such was his own experience. As he had seen this
opinion ea to the unfitness of the Irish for emigration deli-
berately asserted in print, he was anxious to prove that that
opinion did not exist in quarters where it would be mis-
chievous to the object he had in view he meant among the
colonists themselves. There could be no higher authority
on the colonial affairs of British North America than Chief
Justice Robinson ; and he, in • letter addressed to Sir
Robert Wilmot Horton, with reference to a pamphlet of his,
published in 1839, speaking of the altered condition of the
poor Irish since 1833, said to the following effect:—" That
they had been raised in comfort and independence by the
experiment of colounation, and that as a whole they were
• valuable class of settlers, and a credit to the country they
came from." He then spoke of their conduct in 1837 and
1838, by which they proved that they were not only iodus- '
trious, but loyal. He said, " All the population behaved
well, English and Scotch, and some of the Americans, but it
was universally felt that the conduct of the Irish as • body
was pre-eminently good, and they did their duty with as
eager forwardness. This male them feel painfully that they
owed their misconduct when in Ireland to the circumstances

of the country. They were worthy any effort to rescue them
from them." Sir Wilmot Horton said, " That in a correspon-
dence he had with Sir Francis Head, he asked if the loyalty
of the Irish continued, and Sir Francis answered in the affir-
mative and stated that some of them marched a hundred
miles to support the government, and, on his thanking them,
they replied that they were doing well in the world, and
thought it their duty to come and fight for the British con -
etitution." He could, if it were necessary, quote from the
works of Capt. Hall to the same effect. Another complaint
which was made against the colonisation of the Irish was,
that emigrants mostly consist of the lowest class. He did not
believe that if emigration was well organised, it would be so,
although it had been. That was not the case with the colo-
nisation of former periods, and he need only refer to that
which took plane under Penn in Biltimore. He believed
that there was a project for colonisation by gentlemen, ac-
companied by artisans and labourers, to Vancouver's hand,
and this was a sign that the early spirit of colonisation was
reviving. Another and a very strong objection, if it was a
valid one, was that the Canadians were opposed to
an large colonisation of this kind. In the last few days
had been obtained of the manner in which Mr.
Godley's plan had been received in Canada. He (Lord Lin-
coln) admitted that, though the opinions of the press were
divided on the subject, the greatest portion of it objected to
the details of the plan. But they approved of an extensive
emigration, if it was properly conducted; and his object now
was, to see how it mil be properly conducted. (Hear,
bear.) In the Thresh Globe of the Ist May it was said,
that " if two millions elsmigraats were to come, they might,
for there were millet= stems awash their arrival." The
British Canadian she summed' favourable to
emigration Hemel art freebie bonze with %nota-
tions Mesa the same pamphist he had already mentioned,whishozpmed the Mimi tithe Canadians for emigration
to the pen leby mil VAS, 'but he would read
one mime from an Mime delivered at the
Mechanise Institute's Hall at Toronto, by Mr. Sullivan, the
late preeideat of the Executive Council. It was to this
effect Sediments need not be confined to that quarter
of the emey, he between Lake Huron and the Ottawa
there was men meant. There were provisions in Upper
Canada be egret a million, and if 600,000 came it would
still be as moseng asuntry." He (Lard Lineola) hoped
he had esleliied Ses part of the ease, namely, that there
was no sea objeglien in Canada leamfgestion, if it was pro-
perly ocemianoiL If informations wee required on this
pint, then was sew in this cemlay ea authority which no
doubt the gememmeweeid simelles meant Mr.Uniacke,
the Atee=aral he the poseme et Nova Bootie. His
milk thee elMe. Illeame, whin he (Lord
=) had teal; sal he dulled a loge and intended
esimintica, eaminted an nod sad new principles.
Hs hal sow say nearly somiuded ; and he trusted it was
ash seesesary for him spia M assure the hems that he led
briseght hrward the metienterelly indeperiset Moak=
kallog Omens?. (awe, beer.) He hoped holed
the @mem whisk be made at the Mot ; and that he
had not said anything, wt made any allusion, which would
render it imi, t toe any ban. member to support the mo-
tion. Above all, be keeled that he had not given utterance
to any medimet whiek vas obleallosable to any member et
the imams* wt dike Isom (Hear, hear.) If he should
be tamed vie the meats OM he (the Earl of Lincoln)
had sit bee hewed an pia et his own, he
amid a
AI
rely repeat Mt be bed staltiouly avoided
dein se ; his M to ine been the
bone the plans whin hal hem des top tin ben pr•
audgeii by others, with • view d sides ir a saanhaa
M be immend of Moe sr en saint partleal eta when
services *MI be Meted le the investintlea et then plan.
He Mini the appollemat el a nil esamina wink
would had le ponied fast. sash a omit= as
had bum mania by the revernamat d Ind Hainan
to inquire bra the wain at the peer saws, sad et whisk
esanbeisa Assbils Whitely had bem at the ban. He
brought keyed this amia act with a view to a
psspone-
ment of the Miest, bed with ties earnest hope that at as
early • period as pmeile a gmestien of such vital impoetance
es cola Anti set mimes M me the language
et Lord the twain should Esselte thelf." (Hear,
boor.) Neese than On ha lid est tusk, by the appoint-
seat of a nomainion, to wpm& debar the authority of
the Oshwiel-olliee or of Ihe

(Hear, hear.) Thanking the hale sincerely for the
kind attention they had been pleased to show him, he should
now place in the hands of the right. hon. gentleman in the
chair, the motion which stood on the paper in his (the Hart
of Lincoln's) name, with the greatest confidence that the
house would adopt it, in the belief that, with other measures,
colonisation must be the means of rescuing property is
Ireland from ruin and confiscation, and, what wee far mare
important, of rescuing the population of that comfy front
that pestilence and famine which it bad pleased the Ales*ty
in his wisdom to inflict upon them, and, by removing theta nun
the country upon which this visitation had fallen, to plant
them in a land in which they would find a better and a hap-
pier house. (Hear.) The noble lori concl7.3a.oving—
" That an humble address be presented to her pray-
ing that she will take into her most gracious the
insane by which colonisation may be made enteldiary to
other measures for the improvement of the social eratition
of Ireland ; and by which, cnasistently with full regard to
the interests of the colonies themselves, the orenhet and
mond
prosperity of those who emigrate may be effectually pro-

ifir.HA WES said the aoble lord had brought forward
this important subject in the fairest spirit, and in a most
comprehensive manner; and he (Mr. Hawes) should fail in
his duty like omitted to meet the noble lord in the same
frank and fair spirit of c►ndour which the noble lord had
exhibited. The noble lord had opened the question in a