The Express.
London, England, 1853-07-13 00:00:00

COMMERCIAL AND MARKETS.

4AItE-LANE.—THIS DAY.
The supplies of all descriptions of grain since Monday
have been moderate. The attendance of buyers in Mark-
lane was limited; and the business transacted in Wheat
small, at the rates of Monday.
The receipts of Oats continue unequal to the demand, and
prices against the buyer.
Barley, Beans, and Peas fully supported former rates.
vALS INTO LONDON FILM! JULY Ilth to JULY 13th.
1341.41i04., 800tolb. YorEom.
I 1150 5410
5150
0: .. 1110 I loco 3393
lialt ..... 1370
Flour, —sacks and barrels.

MINCING-LANE.—THIS DAY.
sc xn.—The market is steady to-day, and the small pub-
lic sale:: went uff well. The refined market firm, and the
quantity on hand ready for delivery is small.
CorrvE —The public sale of 150 casks, plantation Ceylon,
went off heavily, 3,000 bags of Bt. Domingo offi•red, and
bought in at 43a. to 165., Ist and 2nd class dal:tag:l sale,
40a. to 425.
T kai..—The market is steady but not active.
BAwrerrus.-1,100 bags were offered, about half, refrac-
tion 131 to 15, sold at 2es., which was a slight advance on
last week ; refraction 2 to 41 was bought in at 28e. 65. to 290.
CABSIA.-200 cases sold in public sale at 1235. to 1255.
Cotton.-400 bales so:d yesterday on 'Change.
18Dio0.—The sale is progressing at yesterday's prices.
ltux.—The market is steady.
In otLer articles no material alteration.

TALLOW MARKET.-THIS DAY.
The tallow market is quiet, at the annexed quotations:
Town Tallow, ils. 9d. nett cash; Petersburg, Y. C. on
the !pot, Mi. 61; Uct. to Dec. (new), 51e.

BOROUGH HOP MARKET-THIS DAY.
Mesas. Pattendeu and Smith report that the accounts
from the plantations received this morning are very con-
flicting, some statin an increase aud others a decrease of
vermin ; the market remains the same as on Monday last.

COAL MARKET.—THIS DAY.
Eden Main, hi*. 9d.; Walls End Iletton, 17p. 3d.—
Ships at Market, 27.

LORD ERNEST Vase—A contemporary-states. that
this young lord, after a quarrel with the clergymau under
whose tuition Le Lad bes a placed, proceeded W the Lmdon
recruiting district, intending to be colisnsi; but the oilizer
commanding that brancii of the service, suspecting the
rsition of the wculd-be soldier, discovered, by question-
ing, his real nume, and communicated with his frh nds.
The .nlistment, then( tore, was not completed. Lord Et cast
h.ol since been entrusted to the care of a gentleman, to
prepare him Gr pnsting his examination, previous to hie
Warning a commissi-n in the army.
THE CHOLERA AT ST. PETERSBURG. The
Wolyir Gazette contains the following from Merlin, duted
the Bth :—The accounts from St. Paten-burg state that the
chnkra was raging there mom relentlessly th m cv. r. It
'sus g,neratly thoiteht a. it it lemle,l southwards, at ii ii to,
f, ars wile L..tett.iutd that it might commit raves('
among.t tho troops.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TOUDAY, J1:1.2 12.
The Sraa&r took the chair shortly after 12 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Lards' amendments to the following bills were consi-
dered and agreed to, via.: Electric Telegraph Company of
Ireland Bill; South Eastern Itadiray (Reading Extension.
&c.) WWI % Warrington and Altrincham Railway (Snide-
port) Bill.
l'rowe's Disabilities Removal Bill was read a third time,
sad passed.
The Banbridge, Dublin, Newry, and Belfast Junction
Railway Bill, and the West Port Port and Ilarbour Bill
were einsblered, and ordered to be read a third time.
Archbishop of Canterbury's Estate Bill, and Pemberton
Leigh's Estate Bill, were read a ►econd time, and ordered
to be ccanmitte.d.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
MILITIA ESTIMATES.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LOItI)S.—Tt:ESDAT, JILT 12.
The Loan CILANCILLOI took his seat at 6 o'clock.
COMBINATION OF WORKMEN'S BILL.
Lord CAMPBELL said u be was about leaving on cir-
cuit, he wished to say, with reference to this bill, which
had come up from the other house, that the law as it now
stud was excellent and ought not to be altered. It
did equal justice to the employers and the employed, and if
their lordships passed the bill which had been sent up
to them, they would do that which would be ezticniel)-
miachievons.
AII.RESTMENT OF WAGES FOR DEBT.
Lord Elitist:GUAM wished to state, in reply to the nu-
merous ap:oications which he had received on the subj,-cr,
that it wes not his intention to press for the passing of .
a bill
during the present session of parliament on this et,
but he Wished to have the quession lettered to a committee
which had been appointed tar assimilating the mercantile
law of the United Kingdom.
RUSSIA AND TURKEY.
Lord LYNDHURST begged to put a question to his
noble friend the Secretary tor Foreign Alf-..rs with re-
gard to a document issued from Peterhead, which was re-
ferred to the other night. He understood the document
was originally written in the Russian language, and that it
bad been translated into the French. He also understood
that the translation had deviated considerably from the ori-
ginal I; lilt respect to some important epithets. Ile wished
to know from his noble friend whether he had a copy of
the original document in the Russian language; and,
if so, whether he would have any objection to lay it on
the table of the house. (A laugh.) Ile wished to
call the attention of his noble friend to some
expressions which he (Lord Lyndhurst) had made use of
as to the circular, signed by Count Nesselrode, and which
had been made the subject of criticism. Ile begged to state
—and he was quite state that his noble friend would bear
him out—that the answer to that document by the Minis-
ter of Foreign Affairs of France had completely borne
out his argument, and the conclusions which he had come
to. Ile begged further to state that se far as related to the
document from
.St. Petershnrgh—the circular document
published yesterday—that he might leave it safely without
any comment, hut he would take leave to call his noble
friend's attention to a particular passage in it. lie under-
stood according to his interpretation of that passage that the
court of liusiis hail taken upon itself to state that
until the Ottoman l'orte had satisfied the court of Russia
with respect to the demands made) against it, and until
Prance and this country had withdrawn their fleets from
the Turkish waters, they would not abandon the possession
of the D inubian principalities. Ile understood that a noble
Iced in another place had stated that he did not put that
interpretation on the document. Now, he had read that
documer.t with some attention, and he could not think it
passible that any other interpretation could be put upon it.
He wished to ask his noble friend whether he concurred
with him in the interpretation and meaning of the passage
he referred to ?
The Earl of CLARENDON said that in reply to the first
question of his noble friend, ho believed there was some
difference between the Russian document issued for " home
eonsump'ion"—for the use of the Russian people—and the
nans'ation that was sent abroad. He believed it
bad r.firence more especially to the word perfidious"
applied to the violation of the Sultan's word. There
was a Russian original, he believed, in the Foreign dike,
and if it would be any satisfaction to his noble and learned
fined to peruse that document, he saw no objection to lay
it on the table. (Hear, hear.) Ile entirely agreed with his
noble and learned friend as to the great ability and skill of
the note which the French government had Woad, in an-
swer to the first circular of Count Nesszlrode. With res-
pect to the third question of his noble and learned friend,
be believed that when his noble hired answered the ques-
tion pat to him in the House of Commons yesterday, be
bad not bad an opportunity of reading the note. He did not
entirely take the same view which his noble and learned
friend appeared to take of what was stated as to that note,
but he certainly could have no hesitation in saying that
the government did not consider that the presence of the
British and French fleets in the Bay of Besika was at all
similar, or could is any way be compared to the occupation
of the Danubian Principalities. (Loud cheers.) And cer-
tainly no condition with respect to the departure of the one,
car the evacuation of the other, would be made. (Renewed
absera.)
Lord LYNDHURST said that the expression be made
lese of in interpreting that particular passage, or rather the
o:peados itself, amounted to this :—" As soon as the
Ottoman Porte does what he requires, and as non as the
English aad French fleets quit the Turkish waters, then he
will withdrew from the principalities." He did not abso-
lutely say, " not sooner," but it implied " not sooner."
The Earl of CLARENDON thought the answer which
he had given to his noble and learned friend exactly met
that view, namely, that her Majesty's government would
make no condition of that sort. (Hear, bear.)
Earl FITZ WILLIAM begged to observe that the ex-
pression was a great deal stronger than his noble and
learned friend bad stated it ; the expression was
not, " from the Turkish waters," but " from
within sight of the Turkish capital," which he
apprehended was a very differeat expression from that of
"Turkish waters." The "Turkish waters" might mean
what we called the /Evan Sea. " From within sight of
the Turkish capital," might mean the Sea of Marmara.
(Hear, hear.) The English and French governments also
were charted with having sent their fleets into the Sultan's
dominions. Every thing now passing in the east of Europe
must cause extreme anxiety, and he trusted, therefore, that
his noble friend would forgive him if he put a question to
him on a subject which had lately been mentioned in the
public prints. He was desirous of knowing whether the
government had received any information on that subject,
set to gratify idle personal cariosity, but as a matter
of gnat public importance: he alluded to the rumoured
passage of the Austrian troops into the Turkish
province of Boenia. He was desirous of knowing whether
the government had received any information confirmatory
of, or denying, that statement?
Lord LYNDHURST wished, before his noble friend an-
swered that question, to apologise for not being strong
enough in the particular passage to which he had referred,
bat his noble friend had fallen into the same error, and
bad fallen short, for the words were, "As soon as the
British and French fiesta shall remove from within
sight of the city of Constantinople, we will retire."
The Earl of CLARENDON said that both his noble
friends had Used expressions sufficiently strong, but as they
had both quoted from a statement manifestly incorrect, it
was of little importance bow strong either of their assertions
were with respect to it. The English and French fleets
were not within sight of Constantinople—(hear, hear)—and
although it might be asserted in the Russian note, there
WY certainly no reason for taking precautions on that sub-
ject. With respect to the question which his noble friend
bad put to him, if he had been in the house yesterday when
the same question was asked, he would have heard the only
information which he was able to give to him. He believed
the report had arisen as many others had (which he had
stated an a previous ocession), from the electric telegraph,
which now transacted, not very correctly, a great portion of
the diplomatic business of Europe. (A laugh.) He had no
reason to believe that the Austrian troops had
crossed the Turkish frontier, but the contrary. His
latest date frem the English minister was the 7th
inst., and no mention was made of it. He bad
also communicated with the Austrian minister at this court,
who entirely disbelieved the report. He had stated that he
thought it might have arisen from some of the Austrian
Imps having been sent to their own fortress of Peter
warden, which was about 80 miles from the territory of
Turkey.

Mr. S. HERBERT (Secretary at War) moved that a
'elect committee be appointed to prepare estimates of the
charge of the disembodied militia of Great Britain and Ire-
land, for the year ending the 31st of March, nit, to con-
alit of Mr. Secretary at War, Viscount Palmerston, Mr
Judge Advocate, Mr. Walpole, Mr. Ellice, Mr. Vernon
Smith, Major Beresford, Mr. Wilson, Colonel Maule, Colo-
nel Lindeiy, Mr. Wilson Patten, and all Cu:uncle of
Militia.

Agreed to.
MERCHANT SMITING BILL.
The committee on this bill was then resumed.
A disencsivn took place on the 29th clause, which was
agreed to on a division by 142 to 3d.
Clauses to 37, inclusive, were agreed to without die.
euvkion.
The Chairman then reported progress, and the house
adjourns d.
The Lease resumed its sitting at 6 o'clock.

INDIAN RAILWAYS.
Sir 11. 3IADDOCK moved fur copies or extracts of any
correspondence received by the last mail from the Go-
vernor-General in council in India, relative to railway un-
dertakings in that country.
Agreed to.
SUNDAY LABOUR IN THE POST-OFFICE.
Mr. PACKE, in reference to the commi•siuo appointed
to inquire into Sunday labour at the Post-office, gave
notice that on a future day he should ask the Secretary of
State for the Home Department whether tho Postmaster-
General bad any intention of adopting the resolutions
contained in that report ?
Upon the motion of an HON. MESMER the house was
then counted ; more than 40 members being present, pro-
ceedings were resumed.

THE MALT DUTIES.
Mr. E. BALL then moved for a committee of the whole
house, fur the purpose of considering the duties on malt,
with a view of making such alteration in those duties that
the farmer may be exempt from the malt duty on such
quantity of malt as he may require fur his own use, made
from barley of his own growth.
Sir J. SHELLEY did not rise for the purpose of op-
posing this motion, for upon its merits he was favourable
to it ; but even if this Were not so, he should not regret to
see it carried, as a lesson to the government, who took no
care about a house being made upon Tuesdays. (At this
time the Treasury bench was perfectly empty, and there
were but three hon. gentlemen upon the benches behind
It. The Opposition side of the house was very fairly
attended.) Sir J. Shelley was just concluding his obverts-
tions, and a call for a division was being made, when
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER entered.
Casting a hasty, and somewhat disconcerted look, whichwas
the signal for &general titter, around him, the right bon.
peasants hurnedlehis place. He then said that he was not
rem then etbAgemo.pleirpa:npearieftrtmoebredeayteti,nwilliine:
be ilia punebeally, the first half hour or more of
the Bitting led gene over in interpellatione • now, however, I
that be was somewhat behind time, the businessi upon the
piper was arrived at within a few minutes. The hon.
Men& had made a motion of great importance; but
Maw made it without stating any arguments or reasons
Yale step, he did not feel bound to follow him at any
nil t length. He hoped the hon. member would not
that in so doing be admitted the force of
ble Olt. Ball's) media. Had the honourable gen-
anima stated his segfemests, he (the Chancellor
eft She Embegser) Mali have followed them, and
.gai,a,
~
rimed the series/ maisquenees which necessarily
Medd ipmemment from acceding to them.
lie We* state for the information of the
km gem be saw his motion upon the
Male glum M 61.1111, et all clear whether he (Mr.
Den to Shim a spoil privilege for farmers, as
11111111111111116 IR whether he intended that they should be al-
Weed to make use of malt, exempt from duty only so far
Si
seised farming purposes. Certainly, reason would
bed bun (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) at once to tho
leneinsion, that this latter supposition was the true one. But
obadesr he leaked.* ea sessemble construction or not—not
Imilehat he felt bessits sweet that the hoe. gentleman
ENO to set a fib)—be thought then were
wild reasons for cues
met be
At the same time,
he wbeitted that mesh Wen be raid in favour of allowing
emit be the peeress el bleeding stock to be free from duty.
The aptness pima it mere trate conclusive, but yet it
was a matter wet wholly Mereneeft Of discussion. Looking
Only to who mem the was slammed in it, the hon.
member amid base time baiter had he catered fully into
the matter, sad be might Ibis have explained the terms of
his reposition. TM mottos said nothing at all of malt for
the of robing stock ; it merely said " such malt as
be ( bower) may require for his own use."
Ms own use would apply as well to the brewing
of beer as the raising of stock. He was rare that his hon.
friend (Sir J. Shelley), who was expressing his concurrence
in this motion with some warmth when he entered the
house, could not mean to say that ; he (Sir J. Shelley)
could not mean to assert that one class should be privileged
in its consumption of malt any more than another class.
Why should the farmer be allowed to snake beer or spirits
tree from duty when all other persons could not do so ?
be What would the effect of giving such a privilege 1 The
house would call into existence etch au amount of tempta-
tion that, unless hon. members supposed that all farmers
were men, not of ordinary, but of supereminent principle,
aaavarould establish • system of fraud so ob-
ble that it weld demoralise a large
of people, mad spat the door to wholesale
pleeder. But for the be would assume that it was
tOw paepases of Oak sleek that the duty was proposed
semell&L Ile mug again regret that the hon. gen-
tling) gile Boll) bed set made some few remarks in intro-
bake maim to explain what his meaning was. As
MOM Meet be (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was in
a Sold= of much difficulty. (Much laughter, from the °p-
relim. evidently caused by this last remark being quite
=to the state of the ministerial benches, which con-
very thinly occupied.) He would therefore proceed
le mane upon the ground that it was only so far
✓e
Maw stock was mmenued that the duty was
to be leben off. The quietism them arose whether
mat mid be 'Meade* load be raising cattle
with peeler profit to the beam them he could obtain :by
the empleymest of other bed. lives about the year 1846
an hon. member intestinal • bill for the purpose oaf=
✓etting fusses to me malt for the purpose of
stock. In SOON Si this inquiries were instituted at
Glasgow, mike tb eapselsacedesse of Dr. Playfair and
two other ecientille mw ef esalseses. Two cows and two
bullocks were operated upon under circumstances precisely
similar, except that ens pair were fed with barley and the
other with malt exclusively. The result was that
the two which were fed upon the latter did not by
say means thrive like the former pair. So much, then, for
the experiment of these gentlemen. But remora showed to
him what experiment proved. They mated in their evi-
dence before the committee of the House of Lords, which
eat in 1846, that upon an examination of the constituent
elements of barley and malt respectively, it appeared that •
mg amittlarable quantity of substances of a nutritious
character, which entered into the constitution of barley dis-
appeared from it omits conversion into malt. The only thing
fa which malt had the advantage was, that it was easy of
digestion. Now, if hon. members opposite were about
to make an entire revolution in the feeding of
cattle, by substituting malt for barley, then that would
be some argument in the case for taking off these duties.
But when the fact was that malt entered into the food of
cattle only in a very small quantity, then the argument fell
to the ground. The house could not repeal taxes upon
mere trifling injections. If that were done, then it would
be impossible to raise a revenue. Indeed, the house had
always refused to interfere with large branches of taxation
except upon conclusive grounds. Was this, then, a small
and trifling objection? If it were admitted that salt only
entered in a small degree into the food of cattle, then this
question must be upon its face answered affirmatively; if,
however, this fact were denied, he (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) had only to refer hon. members to the report
of the committee of the Lords—a committee in every way
favourable to the farmer—to show that this denial was with-
out foundation. The right hon. gentleman then referred to
the report of the Scientific Commission of 1816, at the head
which was Dr. Lyon Playfair, which investigated the ques-
tion of the value of malt as a fattening stock for cattle, end
the result of their elaborate experiments and analysis was,
that barley was superior to malt as a stock for feeding
cattle. The benefit which the proposal of the hon. gentle-
man would confer on the farmers was therefore minute and
matmeted. Now what would be the mischief on the other
band if it were agreed to ? The house had repeatedly de-
dared that it would not interfere with the great and
leading branches of public revenue, or permit them to
be undermined. He did not believe that the object of
the hon. gentleman was to interfere with the public re-
venue, but his proposition, if carried, would have the effect
of undermining a vital and important branch of revenue.
(Hear, bear.) The hon. gentleman would 'probably arsest
to a provision fur preventing barley from being steeped
where the excise officers suspected it might be converted
into malt for fraudulent purposes. But even this would
require great vigilance on the part of the revenue offices,,
for it would be necessary to have a general supervision en
the part of the excise. But far greater supervision would
be required if permission were given not only to steep
barley, but to make malt for the purpose of con vertieg it
late stock. In fact, unless they entirely abasdesed
the revenue to fraudulent persons, they mud any
the excise regulations into every farmstead in the
misery, and even then they could not prevent
malt from being made for fraudulent p
This /night not be the object of the bon. gentleman=
would he the infallible result of his motion, and en the
' part of the revenue he could not consent to the probable,
nay, almost the certain, ahandonnient of between 1,000,0001.
and 5,000,0001. He must, therefore, resist a motion which
at best would only give a partial and minute relief to the
farmer. (Hear, hear.) It might be said, " Well, thee,
will you keep the tax on malt for ever ?" ile would rely
my that he did not think there was much chaste that any
penes who this heard him would as the duty

UNITED GUARANTEE AND LIFE ASSURANCE
COMPANY BILL.
Oa the motion for the second reading of this bill,
Lord REDESDALE moved that the bill should be read
a second time that day three months, which was agreed to
vrithoot a division.
The British Electric Telegraph Company Bill was read
amend time.
TM Copyholds Bill !tamed through committee.
TM Metropolitan Building Aet Further Amendment Bill
was read amend time.
Juvianue MENDICANCY (No. 2) BILL.
This billimmed through committee.
The Couvieted Prisoners Itelaaval and Confinement Bill
paned through committee.
The Public Home (Scotland) Bill, sad the Pimlico Im.
movement Bill, were read a second time.
BANKRUPTCY (SCOTLAND) BILL,
On the order of the day for the second reading of this
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he proposed to take
the discussion on the third reading.
After a few words from Lord Bitoconaw,
Th- hill was ri ad a second time.
SUITORA' FUlallF.lt RELIEF BILL.
TLe report of the ainvidlim.ut ou this bill was brought up
sad agreed to.
SAVINGS BANKS ANNUITY BILL.
This boll was read a third time and paned.
Their lordships Him atoorned twenty-An minutes to
olibt o'clook.

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JULY 13, 1853.

If, indeed, they could levy the duty on beer instead of malt,
he admitted that much of the difficulty would be removed,
aad that a great benefit would be conferred on
the egricultur il interest. (Hear, hear.) But he did not
understand that the bon. gentleman had any plan of that
kind. How could they levy the tea on breweries for the
manufacture of beer to be sold to the public, without also
taxing the b. er which was made in private houses. lie be-
lieved it was the feeliag of this difficulty which led the go-
vernment of 1830 to abandon the duty on beer and retain
1 the duty on malt. lie was ready to admit that there were
1 objections to dr. cotitinuance of the malt tax, and he should
be:extremely glad if the bon. gentleman would show him
the way of getting rid of the tax, or evi n modifying it,
without entailing a large arid serious loss upon the revenue.
He believed that the proposition of the hon. gentleman would
lead to fraud and demoralisation, and wuuld entail eoer-
mons loss on the revenue, without conferring shy propor-
tionate good ' • and on these grounds be tout ask the house
to unite with him in resisting the motion. (Hear, hear.)

The house divided—
For the motion G9
Against
The announcement of the numbers was received with
cheers by the ministerialiits, the tactics of the opposition
evidently being to press to a division, in anticipation of a
successful result, which the apparent strength of their
benches would seem to justify.
MEDICAL POOR RELIEF.
Mr. MILES then rose to call the attention of the house
'to the system of po r law medical relief at present existing
in England and Wales, with a view to its revision ; also, to
the large number of persons who annually become charge-
' able to the poor rates from no medical relief being afforded
to them in their sickness, unless they become paupers.
This subject had been brought before the !louse of Com-
mons on former occasions, and several committees had ac-
knowledged that some remedy was necessary to supply the
deficiency in the present system of mayhem relief for the
' pour. Ile had only to state that between three and for 1
thousand medical men had the care and medical superin-
tendence of 835,000 persons to prove that the medical relief
must be insufficient. The present system was expensive
without being elfizient. He believed that he might place
the extra diet given to the inmates of workhouses to the
account of medical relief. They should have in the Poor.
law Board a medical officer, with power to send competent'
persons to investigate any complaints on the score of medt-
cal treatment, and to send medical men on tours of pert.
odical medical inspection. That was the view
taken by the late Mr. C. Buller in 1848, a
short time before his lamented death. The house would
bear him out in the assertion that medical officers
were very inadequately paid, and that without private
practice it would be impossible for them to live. In serious
cases he feared the attendance became a question of huma-
nity or prudence; and it was not surprising that the poor
often suffered. He would suggest that the boards of guar-
dians should find the drugs ; and he believed that so bene-
ficial would be the result of that arrangement, that it would
lead to a diminution of the rates. In cases of medical relief,
he wished to include the second poor in the advantages
offered. Looking at the ge amount of wages,
it was impossible that the labouring man could find
proper medical relief for himself and his family.
In connexion with that question, it was important to con-
sider what were the average wages of the labouring popu-
lation. About a year ago Mr. Henry Mayhew set down
the numbers of the labouring population at 4,000,000, and
their ge earnings at 10s. per week. The cost of food,
clothing, and firing for man and child he estimated at
20. fiel. a head. He further calculated that there were SI
persons per family, making 9s. 9d. for the whole,
to which was added Is. for rent, making a total of
10s. 9d. He (Mr. Miles) had looked at this calculation
over and over again, and the more he 'reflected on
the subject, the deeper was his conviction that it
was impossible for the labouring man to provide
medical relief for his wife and children. (Hear, hear.)

Last year the Registrar-Oeneral called the attention of the
r üblie to the fact of the great mortality of poor children,
particularly in large towns. That officer attributed the
evil to the neglect of children by their parents ; but he
(Mr. Miles) believed that the poor man had as much regard
for the health of hie child as the rich one, and that the effect
stated was owing to an inability to provide medicine.
(Hear, hear.) The profession already contributed to the
relief of the poor more than any other class of society ; and
yet an immense proportion of children died under the age
of five years. lle might be told by political economists
that what be proposed would destroy the 'independence of
the labourer, and :injure friendly societies. (Hear, hear.
He did not apprehendtany such result. (Hear, hear.
The objects contemplated by friendly societies were
now very inadequately fulfilled. Ho knew it was impus
aible that any measure which might be brought in could
pass during the present session ; but his object was to im-
press on his right hon. friend the evils of the existing eye
tem, in order that he might provide a remedy with as little
delay as possible. To show the house the extent of the
evil, he would conclude by introducing some returns
which bad been obtained by a medical friend of his from
different poor law unions. From these it appeared that
the per centage of persons who were made paupers
by sickness was, in the Tewkesbury Union,
62t per cent. ; in the Salford Union, adults,
67 per cent., children 43 per cent,. • in the Plymouth Union
69 per cent. • in the Liverpool Union 80 per cent. ; while
in Derby, where there was excellent medical provision for
the poor, the population was 36 per cent. He trusted that
his motion would receive due consideration from the govern-
ment.

Mr. 13AINES said there was no subject of more im-
portance than that which had just been brought under the
consideration of the house.

An Hox. Mamma having here moved that the house
be counted, strangers withdrew; but it was found that
there were 40 members present.

at all times be ready to receive any suggestion for the im-
nrovement of the medical system of the Poor Law Board.
Sir T. TROLLOPE said it would be superfluous in him
to follow his honourable friend in all his points, but he
felt bound to confirm the opinion of the right hon. gentle-
man, the President of the Poor Law Board, that the pre-
sent medical relief of the poor was not only in a satisfactory
date, but in a progressively improving state. He trusted
this motion would be withdrawn. (Rear, hear.)
Mr. WODEROU SE expressed his entire concurrence in
everything that had fallen from his bon. friend the member
for Somersetshire, and he only regretted that this question
was nct brought forward at an earlier period of the session.
Mr. BARROW objected to do anything which could de-
stroy or endanger that independent spirit which actuated
the poor man, when seeking for medical relief.
After ► few words from Mr. P. MILLS by way of reply,
the motion was withdrawn. '

Mr. BAINES wu found on his legs, observing that be
would now proceed to give an account of the manner in which
medical relief had been administered under the new law, and
that he should appeal to the house whether many of the im-
putations thrown out by the hon. member for East Somerset
were not altogether groundless, and whether, in fact, there
had ever been a time when the medical relief of the poor
of this country had been so anxiously cared for by the
anew-law authorities and the public at large. lie was far
lieu saying that further improvements might not be
elected, and if any were suggested whisk he could not him-
Ulf carry out, he should not hesitate to apply to the legisla-
ture for increased power'. Before the passing of the Poor
Law Amendment Act in 1834, there was no regular system
0/ medical relief. In some places, indeed, there was a
parish doctor, but he was appointed under asystem of jobbing
and favouritism, and acted without any effectual responsi-
bility, and under such a system there was of coarse very great
neglect. A very different plan, however, was introduced
la the passiog of the new act ; and whatever might be said
•to *misting deficiencies, he was glad to be. able to state. I
oaths authority of Mr. Guthrie, who was examined betas
the mewasittee, in 1844, that the amount of medical relief
glut to the poor since 1834, was "infinitely greater."
wok wes Mr. Outhrie's expression— than the amount,
givsziamileior to that period. In 1838 a committee was
that house to consider the subyct of medical
relief to the poor. A great deal of evidence was taken, and
the emnatittee finished their labours by making two specific
suggestions, both of which were immediately acted upon
by his (Mr. Baines's) predecessors, the first being that
the system of tender—tender that was by medical
men, of the terms on which they would supply medical
reilef--should be abolished ; the second, that the districts
within which medical officers acted should be abridged.
Author committee of that house, presided ever by Lord
Ashley, was appointed in 1844. Very conflicting evidence
MU given, and the committee broke up without making
: I recommendation ; but although the committee could
111147 upon any specific recommendation, no doubt the
the inquiry was to impress on the Poor-raw Com-
shelswen, and on those who, like himself, succeeded them,
the necessity of directing attention to the subject. Since
that time, he undertook to say, on every point on which
the system was susceptible of improvement, improvement
had in fact been effected. He would call the attention of
the how* to a few figures showing the expenditure for
medical relief since the passing of the Poor-law Amendment
Act. In the year 1838 the cost of medical relief to the poor
was 136,0001. ; in 1844, 166,0001. ; in the last year, 212,0501.
There had, therefore, been a very great increase of expen-
diture under this heid since 1844 • and, though in his opi-
nion the expenditure should go further, he thought that
from what he had just stated the house might infer that
there had already been a disposition on the part of
boards of guardians and poor law authorities to
be more liberal than they had been with regard
to medical relief. Then, again, with regard to extra
fees, he towed that while the sum paid under that head in
1840 was 6,4991., in 1862 it was 30,7271. The number of
medical officers too, was, in 1838, 2,091; and, in 1862,
3,238. gelagleints had been made with regard to the high
quallisellem required. Ia his opinion the fitness of • see-
died Ewa to attend the poor should be 'coal to that of one
who bad to attend any other class. (Hear, hear.) •
double qualification was required—a medal and a surgical
qualification, and that arrangement bad, he believed,
worked exceedingly well. As regarded the respon-
sibility of medical officers that was a poiat ea
which the system that prevailed before 1834 COW
ploteli failed. There was, in fact, no responsibility en-
' slept to the overseers. At present every medical man was
responsible to the Poor-law Board for the proper discharge
of his duties, and any alleged case of Dulcet, not to say
ED-
trert was made the subject of searching inquiry. It
was the prussice of the Poor-law Board to inquire into 011
eemplaints made against poor-law medics' officers, but these
complaints were very few compared with the number of
officers in the country. Some of the complaints were very
ill-founded, but whenever there was good cause fur •
complaint, the vigilance of a rival or the exertions of lene-
volent persons, who took an interest is looking after the
welfare of the suffering poor, invariabl led to the case
being brought under the notice of the Poor Law Board.
lie was perfectly convinced then that if there was a just
cause of complaint against the medical gran the matter was
certain to find its way to the Poor Law Board ; but though
the board took care to make medical Poor Low officers
erosible of the responsibilities which rested upm them,
the board was at the same time anxious to protect them
in the fair, the proper, aad the independent exercise of
their duty, and whenever • cabal was got up against any
one of them the board took care:to protect, him from injury.
(Hear, hear.) lie admitted that the gaieties of medical
officers were not high, and yet in • great number of agri-
cultural unions attempts had been made to cut them down
still lower, but in every case the Poor Low Board had re-
fused to comply with such demands. (11, sr, heir.)
The result of that refusal was this, the Poor Law
guardians reconsidered the subject, and upon the recom-
mendation of the Poor Low Board some of them had
begun to treat with their medical officers in a more liberal
spirit. (Hear, hear.) lie hopcd that this motiou would
net be pressed to a dititias, and he repeated that he should