The Express.
London, England, 1849-06-06 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JUNE 6, 1849.

&affirms to provost say of those sudden changes which
spnurg from sash a state by a timely concession
ashes* privileges to which ttse Eple were sanded. He
would tat them what he p He was may he was
not in the house when the owl estimates were he-
lm it, involving as they did an expenditure of nearly
4,000,00 W. If he had beet prang he would have celled
upon them to look back to the causes et the immense charges
of the present establishment ant asked them to address her
Majesty on the oiliest, Satin that having voted her the
civil list, they would not touch it so long as they had NI shil-
ling too
ty it, but that they would analyse it thud
Me whether
they cold not set an example at the fountain head
thesabiLendb;Wilialtagilttellne theigghenroartborfen, aGwj eiletheth
avta:thofkethoiPhrusucredirvmthilogu.ctitiisloefatwarahveßenagenasfr anal:df
Worn.= the Fourth it was slightly reduceo, and it was sow
386,0001. ; but it was due to her Majesty to say, that out of
that sum she had only at her oisposalBo,oool., the rest being
spent by the Lord Chamberlain, the Master of the Horse,
and other officers and servants of the palace. If analysed,
that civil list would be found to contain scone
of lords and ladies with 3001. to 6001. or 8001
a year, who had only some alight duty to perform
once a month or so, and for which the country was saddled
with this large sum. He found no one out ot that house to
defend that establishment, and he was sure il properly repre-
sented to her ?dajest7, that she would be the first to suction
its revision. Worn they looked at the poor law unities of
the country, and found there 4,000,000 of the population in
• state of deetitution and demniienre, he thought the extra-
vaganee of distributing 326,0001. of the public mosey
became too apparent to re quire a further 'lmage
lion of it. For his part, he should desire to are
the simplicity and plainness of the Windsor blue
substituted for the tawdry. useless, and costly display
which marked the character of the British court, as
if in imitation of Napoleon. He thought it would tend turns
to the honour of the country end the sovereign if simplicity
and not tawdry display were the characteristic of the court.
He dined recently at the lord melee's, end met them
the English ambassador appointed to the United States,
and he really could not wenn his cloth owing to the
quantity of gold lace upon it. (A lough.) Then look
at your ministers—look at the tawdry manner in which they
presented themselves at court. (Loughter.) Was it right
that their fellow countrymen ahou.d be dying ot starvation
ha acorn, and the public money applied to such useless and
gewgaw extravagance. He was for ceiling on her Maisie,
Is put an end to a large portion of it ; that being dote les
would apply himself to the other establishments, in which
mosey was also frittered away as if there was no rash
ddag as distress in the country—but psinly stow-
!". that the country was not in a healthy state.
What they wanted, therefore, in the first instance, was a
House of Commons having courage to address her Majesty
lon the subject, and by that seeing force the government to
retrench, beginning with the esteblishinent ot the Sovereign,
who, he was sure, would readily consent to a reduction.
When a feeling of dissatisfaction displayed Aral in Belgium
the government immediately extended the franchise, while
I the crown, he believed, and every public officer re.
deeei their salaries one-third. When the Duke of
Wur:emberg succeeded his father, who was over
head and ears in debt, he immediately reduced
every neablishment one-half, and brought the whole
within that compose which the inhabitants could easily
maintain, thus ,ecurieg stenos the love and admiration of
his subjects. England must do the same, and with that
view he asked the house to do justice to toe people by giving
them a fair ',presentation The House of C.onmons might
testi:ld with occasions: fits of economy, and then, perhaps,
effect reductions which would do icier), to the public ser-
•ee ; but until they changed the nature of the House ei
Commons, so that the influence of the p polar voice
might be felt in It, they could not expect that
steady and g e I reduction in the establishments of
the country wench the state of the country itself demanded;
and which alone offered • prospect of permanent relief. lie
wished to see the military form of the country reduced to the
woceuities of the country, and all trotted of their presence
removed by giving to the people their just rights; so that it
her Majesty were asked where was her military force she
might be able to say, as Queen Elizabeth did when asked
where were her troops, that the people were her troops, and
to them she looked for protection wit she went. (Lieu)
He proptsed that there should be vote by ballot,
on which the house already had had an able discussion.
In like manner, be wisbed to see the duration of parliaments
shortened. As the house had men, ly expressed an opinion
on that point, in which he entirely acquiesced, thinking
three years a very proper period, he would confine his ob cr-
eations to the inequality of the frenchise, ant the inequality
of its distribution. It was quite true that icarcjy two re-
formers agreed on these measures ; but on what questions
did men agree without bOlll2 little shades of difference ?
Hence, the taunt front the other side was uncalled for. He
admitted ho was one who, in 1831, raised the cry of "the
bill, the whole bill, and nothing but the bill," being anxious
to a 'cure all that those then in power were willing to grant.
(Hear, hear.) The noble lord (Lord J. Russell) then stated
that, by the constitution, every man was considered as re-
presented in the House of Commons, as having a share
is the election of those who were to make Lys affecting
his rights and property; and on that ground he recommended
an extension ot the franchise—the same grossed on which he
(Hr. Hume) now contended for a further ext. mien. What
was the present situation of the country ? The evil arising
from the large proportion of persons unrepresented was not
stationary, but was increasing every year. Materials were
now collecting which must explode, and caution itself re-
commended a change. The population of Great &hal .
might be taken in round numbers at 20 millious ; and by
the census of 1841 the number of adult males was about 8
millions. There were 3,.5h0,000 inhabited houses; and if
the plan he advocated were adopted there would be as great
a number of voters. But instead of that, the number or re-
gistered electors at this moment did not exceed 820,000. In
this calculation he del not include Ireland, for he was sorry
to say that country had no representation et all.
Mr. W. FAGAN.—There are about 40,000 violas to the
8 millions of population.
Mr. HUME did not think there were so many. Most
undoubtedly there were more bailiffs than electors. (Laugh-
ter.) The only official report which the house possessed of
the populatioa of each borough and county, and the number
of electors, was furnished in 1e36, by what was called the
Elections Expenses Committee, when an attempt wog made
by him to put an end to all election expenses ; and the pro-
portion of electors to non-electors was then Ito 51. It was
now nearly 1 to 10 ; for there had been • great increase In
the population, eseeciallv in the manufacturing districts, at
the rate of from It to 34 per cent., while the increase in
the agricultural didricts was not more than 7 per cent. The
consequence was, that the increased discrepancy between
the number of eleztors ar d of non-electors was almost en-
tirely in the neenufacturing distrioto, where, too, the popula-
tion were more intelligent, and more fitted to exercise poli
tical rights. Men more capable of exercising the elective
franchise could no where be found ; they bed been accus-
tomed to live under tree elective institutions, and were not
likely to fall into the mistake c, mmitted by many persons
abroad when they enjoyed freedom for the first time. Every
year the disproportion between electors and non-electore in-
creased, and fastest in the manufacturing districts. While
schools, churches, and associations of all kinds were
established for the benefit of the working classes, they were
refused that which would benefit them most of all ; and it
was most singular that the class in the country which was
interested more than any other in the preservation of peace
and quietness should oppose the granting of this right. He
would repeat in the face of the world that the working classes
of this country had never shown any disposition to create
disturbance, or to plunder or appropriate the property
of their superiors. (dear, hear.) There bad been
numerous examples of the contrary. Would the legislature
then refuse to these men what had been granted
' without dispute to the very Isenrooi of Rome? (Hear,
hear,) In pointing out wherein consisted the inequality is
the dntribution of the franchise, to would limit himuli to
as esomple under each head. He had instituted a eon-
putout between the great and small constituencies. He had
token 16 boroughs, containing 2,917,000 electors, being one-
halfof the whole borough population in England, including
the boroughs of Birmingham, Bristol, Finsbury, Greenwich,
Lambeth, Leeds, Liverpool, London, Manchester, blaryle-
hone, Salford, Sheffield, Southwark, Tower Hamlets, West-
minster, and Wolverhampton; these boroughs only re-1
turned 33 members out of 323 borough representatives. He
had compared these with 22 small boroughs, returning 42
members, which possessed an aggregate population of only
about 100,000. (Hear, hear.) Hence, the great towns con-
taining half the borough population, only returned one
Member for every 88,000 inhabitants, whilst the small towns
effiarned a member for every 10,000. (Hear, hear.) Could
my man say that that was a fair distribution of
the elective franchise? In Scotland, 23 boroughs,
'attaining two-thirds of the borough population, re-
tained nine members; the other one-third sent all the
remeising members, 14 ia number. In Ireland, four
hem& containing half the population, only gent one-fifth
of We biros& members. What could be more unjust?
Anodise •emparieon showed that 28 English bo-
eresghs, returning two members each, bad each less
than 500 registered electors ; while 16 others, also re-
turning two members each, had each above 5,000 registered
electors. London had four members and 20,000 electron;
while Calne, Reigate, and Andover returned the same num-
ber of member', though they had only an aggregate of 606
elector,. (Hear, hear.) Let the intelligent members of the
aristocracy sit down quietly and look at these fasts, and then,
if they had the courage, rise and defend such • state of things.
With each facts before them, who would be bold enough to
say there needed no farther reform ? Another important
pant was the working of the system. The majority of the
House of Comma" represented lees than one-eighth of the
people • for, of 658 mambos, 330 represents& 3,127,000,
whilst 329 represented 23,873,000 persons; the majo-
rity giving one member for less than 9,600 of the popu-
lation, the minority one for every 73,000„ In this
division the majority included all the third-class towns
and small boroughs under landlord influence; the minority
included the counties and all the great cities. And this
was what was called the people's house—the Common
house of parliament. (Hear, hear.) Let it be pro-
posed to give the working men an extension of their poli-
test rights, and the power of putting down bribery and cor-
ruption, and immediately these pres cried out, " No, no ;
we won't have that "; bat antigewelaw thrown out
to amuse the people, or anyth likely to add to
their own 'popularity, they wool advocate. Having
shwas the inequality which exited, having shown the
right of the working men to be represented, and having
shwa ales that the welfare and stability of the country
inaahll be yesimatod by an extension of the suffrage, he now
MIN to the tumideration of the means by which it could be
extended. Oa this subject he found great difference of
opinion to exist. Some advocated the principle of population
ea that on which the suffrage should be based, others again
am med the principle of property, whilst others advo-
odd a particular tenure of property, the payment of
tom or a certain degree of education, as the

proper foundation for the right to vote. In short,
the greatest variety of opinion prevailed on the sub-
ject. Mr. Mackay had written a pamphlet on the revue
Mats of the representation of the country, which he should
recommend every member of that Muse to mad, as it showed
the inequality and Jolt:sties of the present system in every
point of view. These who advocated the principle of property
as the basis of the franchise would do well to recollect that
very nearly the same disproportion which (tasted between
the population widths franchise existed also between property
and the franchise. The population of England, Wales, and
Scotland, was is round numbers 20,000,000 The number of
',presentative' was 563, or one for every &LIM mecca
The reel property of Oreet Britain asseesed to the poor
was, in round numbers, 71,600,0001, which would hive one
member for every 129,2941. Taking population ea the basis,
the distribution would b • as follows:

Population.
England' 16,30(1,000 would ham 433 members.
noatland
Wales 1,000,000 ~ 22 ditto.

Weir at present 553
Taking property ea the basis, the distribution would be u
under :

tsertr-
England Z P39,re 6850.00 would have 400 members.
Scotland
Wales 2,830,000 „ 22 ditto.
Total 533
The same multi would appear If the counties were taken
instead of the kingdom. Thus it appeared that property and
population were so equally distributed, that as regarded
numbers ens offered as fair a basis as the other upon which
to found representation, and that tie extension of the suf-
frages woull do no injustice to property. Tnat appeared to him
to be s matter of great importance, because many gentlemen
might be doubtful as to the safety of his proposition. As, how-
ever, population was a much emit, basis to work upon he prc-
petted to take it as the foundation of the altei ati-in he proposed.
As to the apportionment of representation, many gentlemen
seemed afraid of cutting up Eniland into electoral district.,
composed of squares and tnaogles. He bad no hesitation in
saying that if ne had to construct the representation anew
he would do what had been done elsewhere, but as he was
desirous of bringing about the result he had in view with as
little charge as possible, he would be prepared to show
how he would group the different towns together, so
as to give each district of boroughs the mune
number of representatives. He proposed to do the mere
thing with regard to England which was done in Scotland,
where several towns were grouped together, as for instance,
the district which he himself represented, which contained
five boroughs. (Hear, hear.) Having made these state-
ments: having shown, first, the necessity of an exten-
sion of the suffrage ; secondly, that they must give voters
the protection of the ballot; and having alio shown that
these two measures would be incomplete and ineffectual
without mare equal electoral distticts, he now put forward
the demand of a moderate, proper, and sound reform, which
he affirmed every man must desire to see who wished for the
peace and prosperity of his country. (Hear, hear.) He
thought this should be done as an act of justice, and that it
was the self interest of every man to listen to the pro-
position which he now made. (Hear, hear.) He might
be asked, as the noble lord was asked, with re-
spect to the navigation laws, " Where are your peas
uons ?" He might give the answer which the neb'e lord
had given, that petitions were not necessary where it
was a clear duty to grant what had been asked. But
when he to'd them that in the numerous places where
meetings had been held in favour of reform, the people
said they would not condescend to petition the Ilmse et
Commons any longer, in coneequ. nee of former petitions
from them being totally neglected—when men became nn-
willing to press their grievances from a belief that no attest-
, tion would be paid to them in that house, it was a symptom
that should not be disregarded. He them( re pressed on the
slob!' I: to this proposition as a sound and rivional reform,
and would leave to the noble lord and h:s government he re.
sponsile lite of reje cling it. Ac parliament was the only means of
ensuring Rood government in this giuntry, it was moat im-
wnnt that parliament should be in accordance with the
feelings of the great mans of he community. (Ue-r ) Did
that house represent the people now ? He said co, and ho
challenged any min to say yes. It only represented cer-
tain classes. lie did not complain so much of that, because
it arose from the system which had been adoptrd in former
dap, when merchants were elected to represent bo-
rough', knights to represent shires, and the members
of univeteitirs to represent scholars. But these days were
gone by : the late reform bill placed all on a footing of equa-
lity, and no man had a right to say to so many others that
they were to be excluded from the suffrege, Was it just to
cre its discontent by shutting eat se many from a right, which,
le -fore God and man, they poisoned? (Hear, hear.) It
was on these grounds that he kepi red the house to
accede to the proposition he had made. The time
had come when they must adopt means for placing the
country in greater security. Let them allow him to put his
plan before them. Let them curtail it if they thought it
dangerous; let them supply end amend it where they
thought it deficient; but let them show to the people that
they were desirous of listening to their comp'aiots and re-
dressing their grievances. (Cht ors.) The hon. gentleman
concluded by moving for leave to bring in a bill to amend
the nati -nal representation, by extending the elective fran-
chise so as to include all householders, by enacting that
votes shall be taken by ballot, that the duration of parlia-
ments shall not exceed three years, and that the apportion-
ment of representatives be rendered more equal to the popu-
lation.
- • •

-------
Mr. H. BERKELEY rose to second the motion of his
hon. friend. During the speech of his hon. Mend there was
a cheer on the other side, which seemed to intimate that the
division of opinion which had teen admitted by his hen.
friend would be an excellent subject for attack, sod would
form a good point on which to ride off from the prop union
which he brought before the house. He did not know how
her Majesty's government meant to meet this question ?
Whether they meant to to at it with that disrespect with
wl.ich they treated one of the points which formed a component
part of his hon. friend's motion, which had been lately sub-
mitted to the house by himself. If so, they would not only
exhibit disrespect to their constituents, but disrespect to the
house, and disrespect to their own characters.
Sir G. GREY confessed that he was rather surprised at
the hon. gentleman having expressed kimself with uncer-
tainty as to the course the goys rnment should take upon the
prcent occasion, because tills identical motion—ile ntical in
substance, if not in terms—had been brought ft 'wail last
session by the hon. member for Montrose, when it was very
fully and very ably debated for two nights, and when has
noble friend near him (Lord J. Russell) argued the question
at great length. The noble lord's arguments at that time,
in common with those of others, tended to produce a remit
upon the division, by which a very large majerity of the
house declared their refusal to entett An the motion. If,
then, his noble friend should not address the house that
night, no doubt need be entertained of his opinions upon the
subject, because those opinions were very elaboratey rued
last year. He (Sir G. Grey) was not going to say •
word epithet what was going on in rani .us parts of the
continent by those who were asserting liberties too long
and unjustly denied them. On the contrary, hon. m= mbers
might wish them success in their struggles after constitu-
tional liberty. (Cheers.) But when the hon. gentleman
told the house that it ought to look to those countries and
endeavour to aim at that state of political liberty which they
enjoyed, then he (Sir G. Grey) answered, and he believed
the hou e generally would coincide in the justness of the
answer, that the first feeling in entering upon that compe-
-1 rison was • feeling of infinite thankfulness for that constitu-
tion the value of which had been tested in adverse times and
under troubled circumstances, and which was telt and appre-
ciated by the great body of the people of this country. (Loud
cheers.) The hon. gentleman bad stated that the great
object he wanted to achieve was, the absence of all military.
The only army le wished to keep up was an army for the
defence of our colonial empire and the preservation of this
country against her external foes. New, God grant the time
might come when we might dispense with the military, even
for our defence against foreign aggression. and when, to use
the language of the hon. member for the West Riding, "the
sword would be turned into the ploughshare," and all men
would agree to denounce the arts of war and to promote the
enntinuance of peace. But when the hon. member alleged
that universal suffrage and the other changes he advo-
cated were successfully advancing on the continent,
he (Sir G. Grey) then said, without meaning mg
disparagement to those continental countries, that he was
willing to abide by the result of the experiment, and to ask
whether the hon. gentleman would take universal suffrage
with the accompaniment of the armed force which new
ex'sted in Paris—(hear, hear)—sod which in every other con-
tinental country had during the last year been the invariable
accompaniment of the great political changes achieved ?
(Loud cheers front the protectionists.) The hon. gentleman
had talked of France having obtained political perfection.
He (Sir G. Grey) felt astonished that the hen.
gentleman entertaining such opinions as he did, should
speak of the existing state of things in France, fa
such • manner—that he should speak of the
" perfection" to which they had arrived, and in which their
legislative proceedings were carried on—when he must know
that there was an overwheming force of troops in France,
upon which alone, as he (Sir G Grey) believed, aided by
the government for the times ing, the people relied fcr se-
entity. He would only ,in addition, that, with
regard to what had taken place last year in this country, the 1
inefficiency of the police force had rendered neossamy a
larger military force, and that if the hon, gentleman fancied
that outbreaks could b kept down without the aid of a mi-
sery force he was speaking of a state of things which hon.
members were aware did not exist in any of those countries
which now enjoyed universal suffrage. (Hear, hear.) Now,
with regard to the motion of the hon. gentleman, he would
not occupy much of the time of the house in adverting to it
after the ample discussion of last session. The hon. gentle-
man had stated his maxim to be " slow and sure," by which,
ne doubt, he meant that he asked the hours to assent to the
motion es an instalment. But he (Sir G. Grey) had a right
to ask him, supposing the motion to be carried, and sup-
posing leave to DP given for the introduction of
the bill, what course would he take when the house
came to diectuis motion No. 4 on the paper of that day—the
mot on of the hon. member for Nottingham in favour of the
six points of the charter ? Would he oppose the hon. mem-
ber tor Nottingham's two additional points of the charter ?
Would he, for the present, adopt finality as his doctrine as
opposed to the motion of the hon. member for Nottingham ?
It was exceedingly desirab'e to have some explanation upon
this point, because he (Sir G. Grey) objected chiefly to the
present motion on account of its extremely vague and indefi-
nite character. (Hear, hear.) Four points were stated
in his motion—first, the extension of the suf.
(rage; secondly, the ballot; thirdly, triennial parlia-
ments; and fourthly, a more equal apportionment of
representation to the population. Now, with regard to the
extension of the suffrage, the hon. gentleman stated the ge-
neral disagrumcnt which prevailed as to the nature of the
suffrage to be extended, but gave it as his own opinion that
it ought to include all hottseholden. One wss afraid of

Perty.) And gentle
accused of plagiarism in amulet • qaestion of this different, and has its origin in Birmingham, not beenda_
nature, which bad been so amply diseased before ; and ter. (Loud cheers from the reform
therefore he meld content himself with referring to the man residing in Birmingham, with whom, if I aisle-. -"me
able speech which had been delivered last year by the hon. the hon. gentlemen has had some correspondenee-me-7
gentleman.. NWDEGATE-I have never had an comment.
member for Beading (Mr Talmud), who then gave a very Taylor-f," No" from Mr. Newdegate.) I judged a'
clear definition of what ° houseboldee" meant. Now, in the newspaper that he had had some correspondence Thet
order to show that there was a necestity for something being **
stated of • more explicit nature than what had Mtr.
fallen upon this head from the hon. gentleman, it
ence with any gentleman
was necessary to remind the house that the opinions ex- of that name, y
except bled?.
aby some of the gentlemen who advocated the modes Mr. BRIGHT-Well, be that es it may, that • the em.
Csieltation of the suffrage lest year at public meetings of the gentleman who has the honour of being theill
dism' ,-le,
' went further than might be supposed. They were for adopt- of the system which has so raised the hon, eneeme—O
log the motim as an instalment. Why, then, did not the wrath. (Hem, hear.) He proposed that instead of ette-,2
bon. gentleman adopt at once the motion of the hon. mem- fruitless petitions to this house, and asking Me
bee lot Nottingham ? Why di•l he shrink from the plain liament to disc= what the house has hhi.i.v"'
Wes of that us dation ? Why did he vis t boldly ask the made up its mind upon, it would be desirable that as —lese.,,
beau for universal suffrage, which, according to the motion as potato!' of the middle and labouring dunes shceiTe,
together in investing it in the purchase of lane teied.
0 the hon. member for Nottingbaen, would not include encouraged to save a portion of their earnings,nd mi-
females, but all the male inhabitants of the coun-
try ? (Hear, bear.) Tim house must recollect that extent as should qualify them to vote for the mue--e.."'
they Will not bound by rejecting the present me- becoming peeseesed of ea, fesshoies. (Het,) ittil
teen to express any opinion as to finality. (" Ile ar, this gentleman that the honour belongs; it serer below' at°
hear," and dieers from the Iree•traders.) They were not to the League-in fact, Mr. Taylor,l believe was never eme7
bound to tray that ne alteration should be made. (Renewed ber of the League. (dear) I wish he had, for 1 believe ----...,,,.
(Cent's.) Fora in 6
cheers.) He had n held the doctrine that pen shoul.l have made more progress in the midland de • "a- -
Bent at one time could bind the d ecretion of we did if we had had the benefit of his cceoper ti - --*
"°. (ner,
parliament at Mother. The house should deal with hear.) But whoever has the honour of this discovery, hi:
every question deliberately, and make such alters- I think most fortunate for the coos try thst the plea
tions as their reason and judgment commended to been discovered and put in force.
them ; but they should not give up the blessings they sp- to have speeches from the treasury bench such at the: m-
preciated without kneeing where they were to be led, the heard from the noble lord the member for Louisa (hoed .1-
more particularly when the hon. gentlemen asked the house Russell) Met year, and that we have heard from Ss ini,-;
to adopt • motion 113 'WAS and general as teat which he hon. baronet the Home Secretary to-night-it it, isegen
now proposed. The hon. gentleman admitted that it was fertunate for the house, sea I will add for the muse of orew-'
difficult to tell on what principle the suffrage was to be cx- in this country, that there is a mode by which the denten
tended ; but, from the latter part of his mullein it appeared out, peaceable, and intelligent portions of the working/ rises
manifest that his main object was to apportion the repot can grapple with the evil, and te.rouch it even thee* wit'
sentatives more equally to the population. Now, with difficulty thrust themselves within the pale of the constitatm-
reference to the suffrage, the hon. member for Not- If lam rightly informed, I understand that the hem e.,,..---
linen= was exceedingly explicit. He asked the tiered (Mr. Need:lan) and his col'etigue have already seed
out for another constituency. (Cheers from the dam
house to agree to universal suffrage and equal elec- a distinct intimation given to there that they must leak
benches, and cries of " Oh, oh," from the protect' • 1
total districts. Thiel was perfectly dear and intelligible.
My hen. friend's proposition c ores before the hoer ei
Equal , lectoral districts would effect a complete subversion
of the existing system; but why did the hon. member fur
Montrose stop short of equal electoral districts > (Hear.) He far as I can judge of it, under very high l• -
(Sir G. Grey) would not say that the t xiating awe of things What is that propootiun ? My hon. friend merely propntt
I was perfect,
found, but he contended that the hon. set tuber or that gross inequalities in individual cas s that you should adopt in practice that which no pas et
might not be deny is recognised by the theory of the constitute n. ([tad
fee Moutrose, while foregoing the motion of the hon.member cheers.) We hose the monarchical institution, with wkid
for Nottingham, would involve us ic all the contagion which we have found no fettle (Hear, hear.) We live aortae
the change of the latter bon. gentl• man would occasion. Pesthole, the mildest monarchy in the world. (Hear, hue)
We find that mmarchy in the possession of privilege, di (Hear.) There were two other points in the present maim
prerogatives, which we have no wish to overturn or teem.
to which it was unnecessary to advert in detail after th.• de- prerogative,
with. (Cheer.) We have a House of Peers, wind e
bates which had already taken place in the present sessior;
he meant the ballot and triennial parliaments. Now, with another recognised portion cf the constitutions) TAIL
regard to the ballot, the hon. it- lineman who bad last ad- That also has its privileges and prerogatives-m.lm Is
dressed the house (Mr. IL Berkeley) had spoken with some no fault with them. (Cheers.) We admit that the me
degree of soreness; but he ought to have recollected that tomb, is right a. it is, according to the admitted
the sense of the house had very clearly been expressed upon principle of the *constitution ; and that the Roue
that subject. He concluded by expressing a hope that the of Peers is right it being also in Lenders
house would by a majority equal to that of the lest year on with the same standard, (Hear, hear.) But vs
maintain that that constitutien recognises otother ele.
the same occasion again affirm the decision to which it then
came. wept-a popular, and, if you choose, a demotion U.
lilr. F. O'CONNOR should cordially support the mot:on ; ment-(cheers)-and we who stand here, mid Inns 11v
and if the four points no* asked for were granted, he would represent-the common people of Eagle:id-bur mgoic
accept them, but do his beet hereafter to obtain the remain- and as undoubted a right to be sole and absolute in nit
ing two contained in the People's Charter. house, as the monarch on the throne, or the peen in the
other chamber of the legislature. (Loud cheers.) Battle
Col. THOMPSON deprecated the view taken by the hon.
system under which we sit in this house is by no mem il
teutleman who had just sat down, who was ready to oppose
accordance with this theory of the constitution, nor with*
every measure and every person that did cot go" the whole
true interests of the nation. (Hear, hear.) We here first
animal" with him. (A laugh.) The present government
,e,
ie._
ii purpo•ely, and by act of parliament-almost m
had achieved the most glorious, because the most successful, "'
dared in words a system of exclusion, by which at lusts
triumphs with which this country was aequainted, and he
nut of 6 of all the grown men in the tinned King.
Mowed that they should be enabled once more to advance to
tom are exeluded from any direct exereite ot poetical
victory under their old and distinguished leaders. (Cheers.)
power ; and you have beyond this an arrangement of our
Mr. CAMPBELL showed how many questions of import- representation, so far as the onddie classes are enflamed,
dee, coon cted with the colonies and with Ireland, as well which, if not amounting to abs Tote melons, is a mere
as with the social condition of England, ought to be ad. pretence of representing them, and, to a large extent, but
justed-topics considered, emergencies met, and wants
a sham and a fraud. (Hear, hear.) Theme-s been an
provided fir-before it was wise or prudent to
attempt to make it appear that the Reform Bill was the bill
enter upon crew ic changes of the constitution. The of the middle clams, and gives an honest reueseatatien et
erinciple of the Reform Act, be contended, was those clams, (Hear, hear.) But no man betimes this in
distinct in itself, and hod no community with that this ileum, and no man out of the house suspects it.
of Mr. Hume's proposition ; and events lost year had prove I Ido not insist at all on the plea of enema riget ; I believe
that the present representative system enjoyed the neva.
e• the middle classes, the proper source of power, alter, as
by our natural rights to be equal, but I speck of cantle
tional nett e and of the rights which common anise cal
Mr. Hume proposed to swamp their influence, and tn transfer
common justice require should bo given to these eased
it to a numerical majority, whose condition, social or p li- The answer to me when I ask that they should he admitted
Seal, wou'd not be improved by en unlimited democracy. to these rights, will, no doubt, be, mat they ere toe igte
With respect to the present motion, even if it had the saisc.
rant is exercise the franchise judiciously, or that they es
lion et the noble I ord at the he ad ol the government, he must so vicious-a large proportion of them-that they wield is
meet it with a firm and indignant denial. likely to turn political pow, r to purposes &strum ise of its
Mr. LOCKE KING observed that there were many per- interests of the country. lam not one of thne who beim
soot who said that elthounh the hail opposed the lest reform that it requires much echool limning to enable a mask
hill, they yet rejoiced that it had passed. lie (Mr. King) choose a member of parliament. (Hear, tear.) Look at tes
warned such persona that they might have much to in pet members who
.hme sat in this house fir many pea
sometbir g like the present motion were not matured into a past for the venom univeratties ot Dublin, Orford. soden'.
law. II trouble or distress came on the country, they might bridge, and you will find that almost invariably they hemp.
tie sorry that all rational cause of complaint had not been posed all those measures which the opinion ~f the mussy
removed. (Hear, hear.) The beginning of the revolution. has demanded, and which the good sense of peri ism e tha
ary year I'B4B had found us in advance of the rest of the at length conceded. (Ilea, hear.) The doctrine tested*
world, that was to say, the people of this country had a lactic learning is cecessary to enable men to ct.oose rumble
greater share in the responsibilities of government than the of parliament most assuredly denves no coutinnation free
p. epic of other Eurnpean ceuntries. But the close of that what we have seen of the members for the three mimed
year saw us without further advance, while it was generally The right hon. member for Tamworth his alt was aloof
admitted that if England wished to hold the proud position to leave one cf these universities because he bed deemed
of elder sister to the free states of Europe, it was to adopt the course which he then felt to ee mammy,
necessary that mutter reform bill should be achieved. and which, every day of his lite since, he in
The people complained that the Reform Act wan not found more and mote reason to know wis se
carried out as it ought to be; and the house should ceaasrv, for the public safety-(bmer, hear);-the
beware of delaying too long a correction of potent right hon. gentlemen who now represents the Universitet(
anomalies repugnant to common sense, whilst the wealth Cambridge is supposed to sit in a very precarious p idea,
and population of the country continued to increase, not because he has neglected his duty hoe, but bend he
(Hoer, h sar.) Hon. members might boast that the:English has been endeavouring to banish from his mind example
people were attached to the ancient institutions of their jndietn, certain antiquated notions of former rays, sad tee
country. He rejoiced that such was the case. lie applied himself to the consideration of those queen end&
rejoiced also that the people were able to obtain the the pressing necessities of the country deemed should he
luxuries and necessaries of lite cheaper than formerly; listened to in this house. (Hear, hear.) The woe*
but what he desired, and what the pet plc de- classes of this country have made great progress of lateran
sired was, to retain all that wes valuable in the national (Hear, bear.) There is abundant prod of this on every
institutions, and to secure that cheapness which they hod hand. Lock at the circulation of newspspers among des,
obtained with so much difficulty by the only means which he of newspapers most ably written, and meet moral and etch
and they felt to be efficient, namely, another Reform Bill, lent in heir tone. (Hear, hear.) Look at the cireetheim
Ile believed that whether in this year or the next that ma. of cheap literature of every kind amoug them, at the effort
sure must come, and that when it del come it would do great thee are making-I speak particularly
~ f the north of Bee
good by bringing a vast number of men within the pale of the land. with which lam better acquain.ett-to educate Ail
constitution, and seising them to their proper rank as fri emen children, and, as adults, to educate themselves. (BIM
and as c tiz es. (Cheers.) Such a measure would bind men hear.) There can he no doubt whatever that the arena of
to that true constitution which expanded on the principle of thin country in 1819 is a different being hem the arejea
gradually admitting new dame s into its bosom; and would of 1832, and in 1832 his help was not disdained by Mendes
cense the 501. renters in counties and tha 101. householder lord and the right hon. gentleman rein him, who en ed
in town who were now looked upon as the hollers of odious upon them to assemb'e, and petition and cry to per-
privileges to be reckoned man additional element of strength for the paring of the Reform Bill. Having quoted the re
by their intranchised fellow citiz no. Finally it would drew port of the government commiesioners relearn: ti the m-
ime the racks of the eonstituti .n all those ere n who were t irely manufacturing town of Stockport t, show the wintry,
now dissatisfied because they were refused their rights as habits, and intelligence of the inhabitants, the hozoartlis
freemen and ae citizens. (Loud cheers). member went on to say, I need only go back to shoot
this time last year, when the right hon. the Hose
Mr. NEWDEGATE concurred with the hon. member for
Cambridge in resetting the time lost in discussing this wo- tore spe:ches about the state of the country-since all the
tion. He (Mr. Newdegate) could not help looking upon it Secretary made what I may fairly call his itemisresetting
real excitement of the period seemed to he in the mind of
as a useless formality ; for be believed that if the conyti-
the right hon. gentleman-(a laugh)-and when the Reels
tuencies were to be reconstructed, the work was to be mace. lord near him, echoing the right hon. gentleman, slid this
taken not in that home, but in a house iu St. James's square,
the Queen's throne was not supported ty the Horse
anti by a society presided over by the hoe. member for
Montrose. But he wished to call attention to the manner hear)-by their respect fir the laws, by their
in which this prot-osed Raferm Bill was attempted to be Guards. but by the opinion of the people-(hear,
Montrose.
love of order. (Hear, hear.) Well, all this is precisely wlut
carried out of doors. Those who now formed the league we say. ( Hear, hear.) We sty, because we know, the
for carrying this new pulisarentary and financial reform
we the great movers in the Anti-Cora Law League in the monarchy, against the constitution of the country. Bat
184.5-the hut. member for the West Riding, the hon. mem the popul anon have no feelings, no designs directed aping
re
they have designs satinet the system which plc o a bas
ber for Manchester, end Mr. G. Wilson, the chairman. This upon them, and whatever their intelligence, whatever their
new league having originated in the tame place and with the
excellence, whatever their industry, wh et e r their in-
same parties as the former one, he wished to call attention to enmity, shuts them out from a participation in the just
a system pursued by them In 1845, similar to that which privileges and rights which the citizens of a tree state may
ires now again proposed, but under a different name. In naturally be expected to claim. (Hear, hear.) Hoe
1845, 701 of his (Mr. Newdegate's) constituents were oh- gentlemen seem to have some vague anyone of danger,
jetted to, and be believed he was right when he said, that at
should the suffrage be greatly extended. I will net
the instance of the league 23,000 noticesof objection to discuss the question whether you fear that were the seems
voters on the register passed through the Post-office extended, some of you would have to take a cliff rent tai's
In one day. The attempt at wholesale disfranchise,
from what you now pursue ; but I will take the suppositio
meat of voters who were fully qualified, however, that your views and mine, and theirs, are the same ; thews
did not succeed in North Warwickshire, and oat of all alike want parliament to he a reflex of the nation ii
the 700 objections 12 only were maintained. (" Hear, hear,"
order that the virtue and the intelligence of the nation may
from the protectionists.) This was the mode by which they be brought to bear on the government, so as to render the
attempted to deprive their opponents of the power of voting institutions and administration ot the country as perfect st
But another scheme was adopted to obtain the votes for
themselves, viz., the creation of freeholds. Sums were sub- pestible. But you have vague notions of danger: you look
at the labourer in the fields and the workman in the in-
scribed-houses were purchased or built, and divided amongst
several proprietors, and in many instances persons in no way tories, and you think these men would melee sorry*.
laton ; you fancy the smockfrocks if let into this house-!d
connerted with the county were placed on the register, ripe.
dilly in the West Riding and in Lancashire ; and, as if to don't fancy, Ibe that if admitted they would sit GI the
protectionist side (a laugh)-would set about some most ice
mark ISMS prominently the means by which such votes had
Practicable, impossible, perhaps dangerous things. I ante
been made, some of the buildings out of which the qualifica- fully that there are such persons as you contempt:se! Mom
tion arose were named " Cobden Row," and others " Bright
Terrace." (" Hear," and a laugh.) And to show the extent class, men who understand vt ry little, and who venture veil
much. (Hear) But such persons are now, I believe, pail
to which these operations were carried, he might in the minority, and if they came to vote for members 01
quote from a speech of Mr. Wilson's, in which be
said: "The total county constituency of England parliament it would be a very different thing. end the
motives influencing them would be very difeat
is 445,630, the number attached has been 143,731,
from those which influence the men who sit
so that we have dealt with nearly one-third of the in this
House. Let any one of us turn to his own nee/Weather:l,
whole-and I am persuaded that this is but a mere bo- and ask himself what the population among whom he lives
ginning." (Hear.) 'There was something too glaring in the
by
stem of forcing strangers wholesale into the county eon-
miolencies-and besides, it was possible that the house might would most influence their choice. I honestly woo
would be likely to do if they had the franchise, what mein
sy
that except in cases of extreme irritation, of tiorce, paint,
interfere to prevent it if again attempted, and therefore the
not likely
plan now was to facilitate the purchase a freehold land by likely when their rights were distinctly recognised, -1
means of what was called an investment company. The ob- to be of freuent occurrence, end least of all
honestly believe that these men would look around in their
jest of this company sou not to make straightforward and
neighbourhood for him whom they believed most intelligent,
free purchases like the scheme of the hon. and learned mem- most virtuous, most benevolent and useful smote
as
her for Nottingham (Mr. O'Connor)-(a laugh); but it w
to operate in this way :-The money was to be paid by sub- his neighbours ; that in fact they would be
seription, except by such as chose to pay at once, end the ma only, whom they would consult in their private cooed
was, he was told, not more than 201. But the parties were
sum necessary to obtain a freehold qualification by this means -
anxious to send to parliament precisely that mac, and tad
(hear, hear) ; they would select their members of parer
to be put in possession, and the money was to be paid by in- lect their poor law guardians,their municipal slicers ; toe
en the property, as that would be fatal to the registration,
stalmente, the security for the payment not being a mortgage the class from which, where the franchise is sufficiently el•
meat on the same rule by which they now so esrefully se
but by a bond and personal liability. Until the whole of liament • tat' What brought about the enter
always at the mercy of those who had advanced him the
the instalments were paid up, the party would thus be ary repres .n Ives.tece
tended, constituencies which are free now select their pis
-
but
of the slaves in our colonies ? The expecte
money, because they might recall it at any time t and there until it was found that the deed, in our cold*
teary to their view, it would be recalled. Distrusting the
could be little doubt that if the holder ventured to vote con- of a slave insurrection in Jamaica-(hear, heal 9-44
would no longer b 3 kept as slaves, sem dhr,
=Son for the reasons he had stated, he should votehear.) Again, as to the mender,
R. question. (Heir,
the 80"
boasted constitution able to grapple with this etn"
what effected their repeal? The agitation of it
Mr.BRIGHTsaid-I consider myself fortunate, Sir, in hay- corn law league was not an agitation of force. (Oh_l aii'
lag the opportunity driving immediately after the hon gentle- was an agitation of conviction-(" Oh ! oh ! ")-it w__ ~,,
man who has just spoken, as lam personally acquainted with agitation which not so much coaquered our opponsn r_::
some of the facts which he has detailed, and can bear testi- converted them, and having once converted them,
_e! efh
many as to how far his statement are correct. There is one no apprehension that they will ever again be found in set:
as
mistake which the hon. gentlemen h made, and considering against us. (" Oh !" and " Hear, hear.") Yet tee
15reel,+''
the great attention he has evidently paid to the subject, I hon. baronet, strong as his convictions had become in
most say that lam somewhat surprised at it. The hon. was not able to propose any change in those laws till he
_se;
member said that the new mode of enfranchising the people coming on in Ireland, • calamity which must overpon e
then, ems
to which he adverted had sprung from Manchester, and was farther resistance to his contemplated measures and sidedby
presided over by my excellent friend Mr. Wilson. Now, this he carried the repeal of the corn laws. Famine,ou.._
..„
that is not precisely correct. (Hear, hear.) It is true that the the terrible agent which compelled oar boasted
uc _ ;teen:
Manchester people did originally begin a system of qualifying to permit the people of this great country to
_perch) e""
Take
voters for the purpose of carrying the repeal of the corn bread freely at the world's market price. (Puteee West Riding
laws. (Protectionist cheers.) But the present system is the question of economy. The member for th

1/,
4-

I

emitted the hemee—be so doubt it wee teasidered
**oblige theme—with the propeftlem to g a beck ti thee
weaken of 1336; dib wee sesaidered a meet ii
bombes halimeloatien ma the poet ef my hon. friend; tan
kw *males fee Kaaren then prep teed reductions of it hem
reeepiag seism Dories the disenesion* the veriememOb
mates we ti some tridincecesomies, but all imep.
.0, the same remelt. Toe boas* legislates en this
;iigiass of 'speakers precisely as though there two SO
BM* nation, mad me though taxation was unkeiows end
„of within the limits of the United Abe-
fooe ; whereat my belief if that if, the Hein
a Comempos truly represented the people, there
fa no imeeds• whisk would aelvanee eo effeetsaya fir
velish mead be di greed of greater importance, thee this
unties eitustion, which prows so heavily urea the
(Hear, hear.) The noble l •rd mad, het
Tow, that we body out of doots wasted more reform ;
• ta the awe of last summer no fewer thee 100 mute
144 in all parts of the country, were held in (troar Of la
MOW sioalu to that now reposed, mad infinite militias
were Mid on the table of the loam to the tame effect. Irmo
=Week oe the subject have been presented this year, it Ile I
flaplJ bteettte the people, seeing the fatility of petitiene,
ha resolved to effect their olejects is another way. equally
Meentatiooal. The hen. member fee Wareiekstasg his
Tetra to that new plan of operatics', and lam obliged
to hiss for doing so ; hes isestioa of it will operate as so
eseellest advertisement. (A buck.) I will add to the
fdoomeion he her gives: from a revert of a meeting just
luld at Birmingham I will quote the followiag paver
it may be worth while to state that stimulated by the rumple ea
mined with the atelletanc• of the Birmingham noceetv, institutielmeg
a shaper kind have sprung up all over the a sentry. In Webs*
mop* the society hos :oto washers, Dudley IV. Mons bridge
430, Wetcecter SO, st drord 100, Derby :no, rvewonwisem
Tyre ISO , Stallard 110, Chetenhern 200, Sheildld Stain
tO, awl London shoot 3,000. Is Litmtinghsto, Dudley, %Solver-
otambridge, and Coventry, 1,836 allotments will
my spun y be made. Altogether there has been called
Moo ealitenee a lily of between 10,009 and 11,010 men,
who by prudence md economy, have woehed oat their can
agreacemaggeent. with regard to the Birmingham societv,
It now Imams 1,200 members, eutreribing for 2000 shore.. It hie
already even allotments to :IS members in Ninth stes.rdshire, os
the estates the Creams puntiased et Ibutdoworth and ferry Barr;
and having runty made another purchase at Blosamhury. In North
Wartmckshire, they reodod to take advantage at it. se kodday times,
milk in procession to the land, and plow the In formal pos.
servion. this estate is very pleasantly situa ed, commando; an ex-
tensve prospect, contains shout IS mem, and bas Wen divided into
231 allotments, fah enoteout wll ties contain about 300 mare
yard., with a beaten. of from IS to 30 bet.
(Hear, hear.) Tare hon. gentleman denounces the under.
falai as a ecaspineey, aad says that the votes are such as,
under a proper interpretation or the constitution, ough • not
to be created. The hon. gentleman, no doubt, respects the
memory of the late Chief Juirice Tio.lal. (Ilea!, hear. The
report I have read from has those further pussies :
We recommend this motto to every other tows thnsutbout the
klegdom, from the Ups if Lord Chief dustier IteedeLtme of their great
eorotitus.ismal joas, t s the cffeet th 4 the object of tactual the
number of frsehAders at a county theta is a ea °Meet In Itself
aping law, or !morality, or sound policy. There I. mottling Injurious
in Ow community In one men selling end imam boyimt land for the
direct purpose of giving or acquiring such gealificatione. On the
contrary, t to inerra.ing the number of persons enjoytng the elective
barrios* certainly appears to have been the eamutul object!" the
Re ocm Amt."
Taint win the cpinion of Chief Antic* Tindal—a man .ho,
so far as he was a politician, did not generally agree with us,
bat who was far too excellent a judge to allow any smile
Motive to inflames him in the. xpr set n of his opinion. I
am prepared to maintain that that is a system of which we
ought t) approve. I bedews that every man who saves his
stoney to g• t a vote is secially and stonily improving him"
self in SO dcisig, and that his admiseien within the rt. of
the constitution will be • blessing to the country. But 1
would tel the noble lord at tt to head of the government,
and hon. gentlemen epposi'e, that there are circuit kenos*
in coons ;ion with this matter which are not ferouralele,
and watch I could wish meld ho avoid d. These
seen do not come forward to purchase these votes
until they have a strong anchintreebo car vieri in that
it is their right to po sees the franchise, and that they
are unjustly shut oat from its exercise. (Hear, hear.)
Daring the agitation of this question lathy /patch* may
be made which are by no means compliment cry to this house,
and some evils may be incurred in the pursuit of the
object, which are, under the circumstances, natural and
Inevitable. Whet. these men de come within the pale of the
constitution in saki, at numb: r •co ak aitattrita ively in
this house, they may c me in m victors and you me van-
quished. (Hear, bear) It would be fat better that now,
when he public mind is quiet—when these men are net ex.
uperated—when they bare not allowed irritation to find a
place in their miudt against you, and against the in.
I
stitutioas of the country—it would bi far better that ,
you should now, in this hour of estm, coneider
this question, and trove to the great body of the people that
the old system of Layton to compel you to do anything is
gone by, and that at lest experience lens made you both
wiser and more just. (Cheer) It is no answer to tee claims
of these annetranchised Mtn to say that a fox of them can
thus purchue qualifications. (Heir) Some of the best of
them are not able to buy them. (Hear, hear.) Hen with
Inge families who do not happen to be engaged in these co.
cupations which are sell pits!, ere not able to purchase
qualifi •atione; and I hope the noble lard will not to ke Ina
reason fir opposing the motion, that I hare pistol out that
many of thine—not a la-ge number—ars opening for them
selves a way of meanie 'skid& the rale of toe constitution.
Now look at the great features* this ease. Yon have s
p mulatiun of 30,000,000, of whom 6,000,0110 at lees' are
adult men. Amongst these there am lees than 1,000,000 of
electors. The 5,000,000 are not slay. ej they aro not a cam
who do not sea whet we are doing—(kesr, hear); hey in
not a class who are ignorant of the effects of government es
their mate Cal condition ; they are not • ,lase—a very
large patio. of them, at hast—who are much b.dews
011111tITC• is inhalation on the most in:thereat sob
juts. Here are these 6,000 000, who have *anted
petitions year after year, and who steed about at dee.
tione,—you hare sees them (about the heirbige, looking up
to the vows and the esedidases, and and oily longing
in their hearts to he in reality what tee ennatitut eel of this
country contemplated that they should he—men lams
SODS at least should inflderes this house. (Choirs) I have
shown, sir, I think conclusively, that this house, as now ea
&tibial, is incapable of making those changes which are
smeary, until danger is imminent, or has overtakes us. as
it has recently done in the ease of Ireland. (Hear.) The
nulelllerd said the other sight, in ape king of tt ion** oar-
like's% that the country lied nalicient influ nee in this
house. If, by " the esiantry," the noble lord means his owe
order,what he said wee true; but if he means what we intend
by that espromiem, that is, all b.'ow the ti le I climes, it was
not tree. (Hear, bear.) Look at the compositien of the
cabinet. If this bow repreeested the nation, is it likely that
the members of the goveesment would be all chown strictly,
and most e xectsivelt , from oat clam? (Hear ) To show • hat the
cabinet it aristocratic, and not popular, I will observe that it
samprises Lord Cottenhaen, Lard Lansdowne, lewd Nieto,
Lard Carey. Lord Campbell. Lord Marisa/dr, and Lord Car.
Ili.. Of 14 members of the cabinet, 7 are peers. (Hear.)
Thee there are Lord John Russell and Lord Pal met Mon, who
are net, Indeed, peers, but are precisely of the same ease and
order. (Hear, hear.) Then th.. re are bee other gentlemen,
her of whom are baronets, and one is not a baronet Of
theme, I find that one is the non-in law and btotherdn law of
a peer; smother is the eon-in-law of a peer; another is the
nephew of a peer; smother b the grandson of • peer, sad
the wePbew of a peer by zurrinße and the last is the man-
ia-law of • peer. (Hear, bear) Now eon have teed accus-
tomed to Wm from eliddhood, and me doeiht you think it
right. The wianine silo always thinks meat exists is right;
but there is another tide which mi• win some day. and
which is beginning to find out that this is wrong. (Hear,
hear.) There is not a man in this house who objects lees
than I do to any of the noble lords who hold poeitiocs in
the government. It is quite possible that you could not find
in this hones an equal numb.r of men against wk ,ms so little
object on could be raised. I might say the mama of
the gweroment which peeeeded them ; but then I sly frank'r
to them both—and I am sure they will not underhand
me as quaking disparagingly of them—that if tale home
were a fit representation even of the middle chows of this
country, to say nothing of the workirg classes—still
more, if it were • representation of five limbs or of
th, whole ale-sinks of the entire grown-up pops-
latien of the votary, it is quite impossible that yen
could have a cabinet uniformly chosen out of eme
perticu'ar, privileged chug of the community. (Beer.)
It is hee ease this house is aristocratic and not popular Ant
the eablnet is aristocratic and not popular. (Heat, bear.)
And it is for this reason that these changes which public opts
sift demands, and will, if 'mecum, ultimet•ly enforcer,
should he conceded. (Hear, hear.) Now, before
I sit down, I wish to ask one question. It is
this : whether the five-sixths of the adult male peculation
now teal tided—l speak within compaes—comririses • body of
an for whom you have no respect, and in whom you have
no confidence? (Hear, hear.) What would be your cogs.
try what its getamess—what its biatoiy—what its pest—
what its futon—it these fiveesixits were all as entirely ex-
cluded from emeythirg SW as they are from the possession
cf political power in this hi use ? I honour the memory and
revere the character of those who hue, gone before us
end who gained for us the personal and the political liberty
which we poem. But, in proportion as I honour them, am
I anxious that we should not leave the world without having
done something to repair and to amend the institutions
which have been left to us ; and I vote fa the istr tare of
my hoe. friend ea this ground, that I believe that if it be-
came the law of the land we should leave toour children end
our posterity the priceless heritage of a renovated and
endruhig constitution. (Loud cheers-)
Lord J. RUSSELL said, whatever he might think, with
✓espect to the motion before the house, he could nut oppose
it without fleet paying his tribute to the moderation, fairness,
and total alumna of all bitterness which had marked the
'met of the hon. member for Montrose ie introducing it
(hear, hear), and for his own part he was hapt y to see the
boo. gentleman appearing there wi h renovate' health.
lliff riog as he did f. one the hon. member in opinion, be
could out Keil no doubt that the teat patriotic motive had
led him to bring this motion under the consideration of the
house—that he had done it with a view to the improvement
of the representarVn, and the correction of defects in their
instigations. ( Hear, hear.) Bat with regard to the motion
itself, if there were much doubt and obscurity
both in the plat year and the present one, in
the words of the honourable member foe Montrose—
* that honourable member had come before the
hone., telling them that he meant to give the franchise to
all householders, and yet what he meant by householders
he was unable to say, observing, however, that the old delle
cotton of a householder being • sass who held • house, was
not his definition, and that under his proposal every person
who slept under a roof should have the suffrage—if then
were some obscurity in the proposal of the hon. member, and
the word t. householder," is its old and natural sense, was
ill-suited to that proposal, the speech.( the hon. gentleman
who spoke last had cleared up all ambiguity, and must have
informed the house that, whatever might be the
intention, or wishes of the hon. member for Mont-
rose, whatever might be his respect for the ancient conatitu-

tioa tithe orsatry, whatever We MOWN'S for hew which
had enabled itia to prism se distinguished • part sad to
cooler no anal benefit on his essustry--(hear, hear)—tiK44l
who sided hie, and in aiding overpowered him—(lead
ettters)—bad no limitation is their citsiAn ; that
they, to US the words of the hon. gusher who spoke lest,
had he respect fur the ousstitution. (" neer, h•ar," sad
chows.) That their prop ninon stopped sot short of admit.
ring every adult mile to the sajeyeeest of the frszebise ; end
that therefore, 'hooch it might not be included la the notion
of that nista. in effect the carrying of the mix points of the
shorter wasthe end to which the boa. member for Montrose

had dilated his observations. (lima, hoar.) Now in eon-
burin, the motion ha must refer to what had been said
by the bon. neater for Bradford, and he believed abo by
the Wm. member for East Surrey, at • time when Ite(Lord J.
Krell) was absent from the house ; though
he bawd the hon. member for Bradford &taint that be
_ _

_
wished that those who introduced the Reform Bill would

teke the lead in the mosem•nt which was at p► tent goina
on. Now he most ►eie► to the eons &radon. watch h tit

governed thou who framed the Reform Bile; or, he would
rather say, to mato of these considerations, to he would not
malty the house by entering into any of the details
of the museire. It so happened that in the year
1821 he (Lord J. Respell) bro..ght forward a large plan
fur the referee of that house, while in 183 L he proposed, as
the organ of the government, a b II which in Is main pro-
visions was tarried end became the law of the land. In
framing that wenn their view was to found it upon
the anti int euestitutioe of this country ; to ne-
edier what were the defects in the repenen-
tstion of that house; to amend those defects in
the spirit in which the institutions of the country
were originally framed, at d like else 6.1 to amend them that
they might agree with the various parts of en ancient, 'free,
and • glorious emeitarice. (Cheers.) Teo y were Lee of
them who preferred to feel no respect for that consti-
tution. ("Hear, letar,'• and cheers.) Now, with regard
le the franchise, what they cern lend desirable in those
who poen:read it, was independenes and intelligence.
(Hoer, hear.) If thug were not independence in those
who exert:bed the franchise, there could not be the ex-
pires ion of the public will ; if there wore not intelligence, it
was impassible to enure that which was tee object of repre-
sentation—namely, the good government of the country.
The object having been, then, to secure independence
and intelligence. let the house consider in what position the
framers of the Reform Bill found the representation of this
country in those respects. First, they found in counties the
40s. freeholders' admirable (randier, which secured, be
thought, as much independence as it was possible to obtain.
Then there was an accent franchise in towns—the house-
hold franchise—which in modern days. hutted of including
merely there who tunneled the ancient burgesses, who
were men o' property and intelliget ce, comprised a for more
extensive ears, and requited to ba modified in order to the
attainment of the object in view. And here he would ob
serve that much of the corruption of the constituent bodies
tinder the unreformed wham, at arose from the want of that
intelligence which he maintained was necessary in • consti-
tuent body. (Hear, hear.) Take any question, for I :ample,
that of the corn laws. II a man were eager for the mainte-
nance of the era laws, or if he were eager for their
abolition, according to his strong conviction on the
subject would he give his vote for or against the
different candidates; but if he bad negy heard the question
stated, and war quite ignorant of the merits, and if there
were besidt s two candidates before him, of whom one was
reedy with a bribe while the other ens not, he would be
lelalty indifferent to all political considerations, sod being
sadly influenced by the elite of a bribe, would vote,
sot accoreing to any convictionnn the subject, Mei
and-r the it floence of the proffered bribe. He must say,
then, that he dad consider intelligence neceesuy in the great
body of the electors. Again, in regard to the arrangement
of the representalioo, they found existing nay great defines.
1 Those detects were chiefly of two kinds. A large number of
the boroue los of the country were in the pose 01011 of haii-
eldest proprietors; so that persons seat to that house were,
in fact, directly nominated by tboee proprietors, and
represeuted only the individuals themselves. This
was inconsistent with any notion of repreeentation.
It was toned also that some of the great seats of the manu-
factures, and even of conga-Fee, were not represented in
that house. Manchester, Leech, and Birmingham were at
thettime without representatives. They proposed to correct
these detects by notion off from the representation • very
coneid 'Mee number of boroughs Pending more than 100
members to that house, and supply ing their places from the
counties end the large seats of cementer, of manufactures,
and of an increasing population. But while the framers
of the bill considered that these were detects
which required to be amended, there was another
pert of the representation e. liich did net seem to them so
defective se the hon. member fur Montrose had that night
pissented it to be ; he meant that part which comprised
constituent bodies of vat 'tette hint's—some very large coun-
ties, some very populous cities, bat which, at the same
time, included :ome small boroughs which were not affected
by the passion and excitement that marked large cities.
His belief wee, that if instead of the present
intent they were to divide the whole country into
dietricts, allowing 50 to the metrop die, and 2.5 to Man-
chester, and bal tocine that by having similar numbers
from G•vno, Sussex, and York, they would 1. ave a less eom-
plats and efficient representation than at present. They
would have a greater number of pars •ns to represent Man-
chestt r, but on the oti.er bend they would have a greater
camber to represent the agricultural interest, while they
would have fewer men whose opinions were of great weight
in that hove, and whose teder ts added to its usefulness.
(Hear, hear) The bon. gentlemen who spoke last alluded
to the influence of Lord Exeter in the borough of Stamford ;
but that borough bad seat to that house a gentleman who had
bad a long a sperience in pabl,e life, ants whore commercial
knowledge renders his presence there an advantage. (heat.)
His belief was that if the hon. gentleman wished to destroy'
all aristocratic isduence, he must go aereat deal further than
Be proposed. It might be true that Lord Exeter had some
Mosso, in Stansffird ; but show him the county in which,
saw of great landed pr •porty had not influence. Did the
bat. gentleman mean to oestroy that ? Until he heard that
that was the hon. gentleman's Proposition. he should main-
tale that it was far better to have a need representation of
small boroughs, as well as large cities, and to have
various el oses represented, instead of haying in parliament
two sets of men only of oetegonistio opinions. (Hear, hear.)
la saying this he stated the grounds on which he thought
the general alterations in the Reform Bill were founded,
and, if he steed them correctly, it would be teen that tht.y
differed so entirely brim the proposition of that night, that it
would be quite impossible for him or tiny one who took part
in the moue of the Reform Dill, and rill retained those
opinion., to ad tpt any such meson*. There was another
and a different question with which they bad not now to
deal—namely, whether, in conformity with the general
principle of the Reform Act, and which be believed to be
past, there might not be a greater number of
persons poises leg the suffrage—whether the workieg
glasses might not be admitted to hold it more generally, ited
whether in the great townr, boroughs, and counties, there
should not be other franchises to enable them to excrete that
right. He had already on a former evening stated that he
was favourable to such an ezter.sion of the franchise ; but the
hon. gentleman who made the present propoeitior, protested
against any extension of that kind. (Nis, no.) Ile had seen a
proposal to that effect treated with ridicule by those who
thought with that hon. gentleman as a change by no means
esicuLted to satisfy the public—(hear, hear)--and therefore
not one to be adopted. Res; acting the church,
there had been a settlement of the tithe ques-
tion, which bad been debated before the Retorm
Bill, and afterwards settled on the principle of a commuta-
tion; pluralities had been rntriced and limited; the trans-
lation et bishops had been almost put an end to; the holding
of dignities in commendam totally prohibited by act of w-
hen:eat, and severe other measures. The grievance to dis-
senters of not berg able to marry, unless by the riles of the
established church, had been remedied. Regarding the
commerce of the country, the China trod. mono-
poly of the East India Company had been
thrown open ; • great change had been made in
the customs duties by the measure of the right hon. baronet;
the C3fll laws had been repealed; the law respecting foreign
sugar bad been entirely altered ' • and only the other day the
neegation laws, which were boasted of es from the time of'
Cromwell, were repealed by a vote of that house. The.t
measures showed that that house was not slow to adopt al-
terations
in our policy and reforms et geired by. public '
opinion. The bon. gentlemen raid that public opinion went
before that house. Bat in 1841 several members were sent
to that holies from Lancashire and other places to vote in
favour of the corn laws, sbowieg that the country was not
prepared for the change which, in 1846, was adopted.
Although be did net assent to the wisdom of so lone a
d-lay, his belief was that that house was not behind public
opinion on that subject. Then on the subject of religious
liberty—taking the Roman catholics—did any one suppose
that universal suffrage would produce less feeling of religious
animosity on the part of members of that house towards that
Andy than at present existed? (Hear, hear.) And yet he
believed that the members of that house were far more
liberal then the community in general were supposed to be.
The hon. gentlemen said there ought to be a demo-
cratic element in that house—that Net element was
more especially wanting in the cabinet, which was go-
verned entirely by aristocratic feelings. His belief was, that
the people of this country—the humblest and poorest people
of this country—had to indisposition to the aris•ocracy.
(Hear, hear.) His belief was, that the aristocracy was not
forced upon them, and could net be forced upon them.
What he found fault with in the hon. member for Man-
chester, and those who agreed with him, was, that they
wen txceediagly narrow•minded. (Cheers from the
opposition benches) Get them upon their own
subjects, upon those subjects with which they were par-
ticularly conversant, and be listened with great admiration
to the great ability and practical knowledge they displayed;
hut when they came to discuss large questions concerning
the interests of the nation, then thew intellects became
bound up in such • narrow round—(renewed cheers))—that
it war quite Impossible to get them'to understand those
great principles upon which our ancestors founded the
eoutituties of the eon, try, end which we, their successors,
humbly admired wed endeavoured to follow. (Hear, hear.)
no hem gemdamoms speaking of the conduct of that house
ONINSIII/ 1111111 M lb said that nothing could be done in it ;
ong- nano gpm that subject were always rejected. He
Illenelth did the beam and the country had very much
ISM to therm that if there was a strong disposition for
enemy an retrenchment, the government were likely to
yield to it, and carry such economy and retrenchment into
effect in a manner more conducive to the public service
than could be done by haw-hour's diecursion on •
single vote in a committee of supply. Since lest
year, the navy sifts's., alo .e had been reduced nearly
800,0001. There bad a'so been various other reductions, and
although there bed not been direct votes for redaction,
nevertheless the influence of public opinion bad been brought
to bear upon the estimates, and they were now, he aeknow-
ledged,more in conformity with public opinion than when they
were presented to the house last year. The hon. gentleman