The Express.
London, England, 1849-06-14 00:00:00

but he had °wry willingness that the whole subject f
rating, including the question of representaboo, ehould hi
thoroughly investigated by a committee.
Mr. EVELYN DENISON bad come down to the how
for the purpose of supporting the intro iuction of represents.
tints into the admiuistrati•m of the minty rates, baths
thought that it would be better to adopt the suggestion et
his right hon. friend, and refer the whole moiler to the is,
vestigation of acommittee, rather than subject any partici,
lar portion or principle of the measure to a seperate dingo&
Mr. SPOONER denounced the measure as en affrontte
the magigtracy of England, though be was quite favourable
to the principle of representation in the manegemeat of tia
county rates. •

Lot I BROOKE concurred in the propriety of pl ,ciag
whole subject under the consideration of a committee, with,
out prejudging any particular point.

Mr. HUME replied—Hon. gentlemen opposite dear%
that they were in favour of the principle of representahcg,
Then he told them that there were only two ways of ((dew
ing that principle—ene was to vete directly against the bq
as against the principle of representation, and the other? was
to insert an insidious clause which would have the Nag
effect. He was sorry to see the worm affairs hid takes ;gr
he considered hat he had been deceived by the govtrogem.
Both the right hop. gentleman the Secretary of Side 414,
Home Department, and the noble lord at the headat the
government had expressed their approval of the princiAlst
the bill, but declined to introduce it, and now oppose's,
that was the way in which he had been ; but en Krieg;
the second reading to a division he expected that elegy
who approved of the principle of representaiom shay
divide with him, whilst those who disapproved tee priudigs
would divide against him.
The house then divided, when the numbers were--
Far the second reading 96
For the amendment 154 —SS •
On the amendment being put,
Mr. H. GIBSON proposed to insert certain other wariy
with the view of securing the principle of representation.
Mr. E. B. DENISON did not anticipate that there***
be any objection to the insertion of the words propseeekgy
the right bon. gentlemen, because they would tend to keg
the whole question before the committee.

Mr. IlUilE was glad to see that the house generally via
not opposed to the principle of represents ion; sag
though he should support the amendment of his right kg,
frieed be had rather that the question had stood as be big
originally proposed it.
Mr. DISRAELI obj, °led to referring matters of tilts io.
portant nature so committees, when the House of Comm;
that great popular soembly, was the limper arena in sib*
suet subjects should originate and be discussed.
Mr. ROEBIICK conceived that that house was cheers%
in which a bill of this nature ought to be originced are di.
cussed. The bill was one of the very greatest imporkaa,
and in his opinion the government, baring approved as
principle, ought undoubtedly to hays introduced if. (gig.)
Mr. BRIGHT could not se.: what oprosition could Its
raised to the words proposed to be introduced by bisiight
hon. friend. His amendment merely gave the sotetion 0(
the house generally to the principle of repretentatioo, and
the control of the ratepsyers, of which every hen. mignon,
' had approved. (Hear, hear.) For hie own pot, he be.
Berea that the principle of rvprecentation might beaked/ to
work anywhere, if men were only honest in their desire to
carry it out. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. PAHINGTON must oppose the insertion of the
proposed words, believing that in reality, if they yr*
agreed to, it would be equivalent to the second reading if
the bill. _

"4—Mr.jetilinYi.tFodAT.T.E. Nthuisnd_ersTtobwode
wthhaot
athpep, the inawthels hietM
epic of representation would vote Cr the amendmeatof the
right hon. Gentleman, whilst those who wished for ea he
quiry into the whole m itter would vote against it. leak
own part, he had made up his mind in favour of the peek
cipie of representation, and, though he had voted quad
the second reading of the bill, he should nut oppose the
amendment. (Hear, hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL agreed that all therein
were &aims of having an elective system would neon
the amendment of the hon. member for Manchester; het
hose who did not concur in it would concur in them weeds,
" to c insider the brat mode of arranging an effective wag
on the part of theratepayers." The best mode ofdons it
wan to be considered. end his hon. friend only wanted ad
the question should be considered. It merely pledged lee
house to this, that those who paid should be satisfied vita
the expenditure.
Mr. R. PALMER saw no objection to the insulin d
thee words.
Mr. W. MILES thought the words ought to be "to is
quire with a view to ascertain whether any or what coatisi
can be advantageously exercised on the parted the memo
over One county expenditure."
Bir W. JOLLIFFE c tneidered tnat this was not Ma
then the former proposition. He doubted whether rep,
tentation would secure good management and economy. Ba
was of opinion that the present system was as economical, I
not as satisfactory, as any the country could ever enjoy.
Mr. GLADSTONE said that the hon. member for
cheater did nut recommend his amendment as iovolving tie
assertion of an imp .rtant principle, but merely as a mused
enlarging the field of inq Arty by the commission.
The galls ry wee then decent for a division. Daring,:
absence we understand there was a motion that toe deb*
be adjourned. On our return to the gallery after a abut
time we found
Mr. DISRAELI, addreseieg the house, she sold that
there had been an ettempt to obtain sweep which did net
appear to be frank mid straightforward. Tte A•torney-
General had made a speech which seemed to entry mune
tion to those around him ; yet the AttoranOinnal bed
made misrepresentations of a very flagrant thinner. Es
had said that the amendment of the right boo. gentlemen
the member for M .nettester merely called open the hunts 1
sanction the principle that there should bs an effective ca-
nal of the expenditure of the county ratee, and he al peeled
to all hon. g,ntlemen opposite whether that was a principle
to which they could object. But the words "on the put
of the ratepayi re " were omitted.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—They were not omitted.
I rail it over and over again.
Mr. DISRAELI—His impression wee not a seituyine
pension, but wan shared itt by every gentleman wheaten
him. He would, however, take the word of the bused
learned gentleman, that he fairly stated the amendmmtd
the hon. member for Manchester as proposing an dente
control on county expenditure on the part of retepayem bet
could he conteed at the same time that that was not said.
mission of the represtata• ive principle ? He gave the Ina.
and learned gentlemen the choice of either of !Iwo
circumstances, ar.d the result would be, in *Su
case, highly unsatisfactory to the impression sleek
he wished to convey. He should oppose, by every east
etitutional means, the hasty and precipitate settlement of the
question.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the hon. sea'
her for I3ucking amsbire had thought proper to amoeba
of an intentional misrepresentation of the amendment sl
his hoe friend. He had said this, that those who semi
with the hon. member for Manchester, that this amendment
pledged them to a representative system, might y te for the
amendm-nt ; and others who did not agree night Tani
vote for it. He slid that the best mode of arranging
effective control on the part of ratepayers en county esda•
diture might be yeti-fled in several ways, either by the nie
payers electing auditors or by magistrates.
Mr. HUME hoped the hon. member wtuld not pat the
house to the trouble of dividing on the adjournment of *I
debate. _

The house divided.
For the adjournment
Against it l3l-48
The amendment bring put,
Lord BROOKE sxiil. that as the house had affirmed, tilt
if they convnted to go into committee, the principle ms
established, and as he felt that required further considergi•
he moved, " that the house do now adjourn."
Mr. CHRISTOPHER, as representative of a 10
constituency interested in the county rates, thought it
advisable that government should let the house know stist
the instructions wet, for the tielrct committee, or else dumb
right hon. gentleman the member for MEnettes:er
withdraw the amendment of which he had given notice.
if
he refused to do so, he would second the motion for tlif
adjournment of the house.
Mr. HUME said that there could be no doubt dint*
course which wu taken was intentionally to create USA
Even hon. gentlemen who admitted the principle sl!
voted for the postponement. He thought it wall "
more becoming the &muter of county gentlall
for them honestly to come forward and say its
they they would admit, or not admit, the prisOs
of control, by representation, over the expenditure done,
rates, and not to take the course which they now took hi
delay. lie was prepared to causeut to say mode by vsliA
the committee mignt thirk fit to carry out the oriscipls
repressntstion. Why eia not the county. gentlemen sir
fully come forward and say, we do not wish for rigs' s'
presentation, and on that ground we will use every nisi
' to defeat your plan. Instead of that they meanly Ana
and fu,.ked. (" Hear," and laughter.) did riot al
about being beaten, provided he was fairly beiven, butlis
could not submit to be defeated by an evasion incontided
with the character of the house, and inconsidext with th
high et.tring which gentlemen opposite held. The I•
member for Buckinithemaliere had truly stated that ti
question was second to none that had ever been brouglitie
ward. Ths quecion was whether the county ralePsYl!
' were to he put in the si•uation in which the rate-peyervi_
ev vy borough were pat, viz., to have a voice in the srs
of those who taxed them for the county expenditure.
Mr B
it beings
sit 'cloak, the Speaker left the chair.*
the house adjourned amidst much laughter.

FEARFUL SUICIDE. Yesterday morning,
slight o'clock, an elderly man (probably 60 years of se
ten debt). rately to approach a coil pit at lillltrii,„„,l,
Ma-cheater, and, commit selPdeeruction hr gr"'
it. The depth was between 200 and 300 feet, and cf
imeneoi its death "ould he consequence of such an seed :
fo
sanity. A man named John Anderton, who wittlesik,h,
fact, ilrmed the Manchester police (the pit bang ear,
Ithe borough and near to one of the public parksL.
II means wore immediately taken, and with mum "
s., to '^—
the body. Tho deceased, who was about 6 feet`
high, with grey hair, bald at the top of the held, ndainualllo
black wai tent aud trowiers with • brown cloth T
coat, was unknown. A min sum of money (le
found in his packets, and the CaUsell which led to the paw'
have not been discovered.