The Express.
London, England, 1848-08-22 00:00:00

Ntriasom • sp“,•a
'Tort a•

airtg'7M—RiiiiMENTSCONSlDEßED.—cternentred Improve-
'sent ; E=nter and Euneuth Railway Acts Amendment ; Bills.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
fitOOND READINGS.—YIIIbank Prison; Blare Tends (Reputes*
and Mosest) Bins.
COMNIITEKS.—Yever (Ireland); Transfer of Landed Property
(Ireland); Dohtin Police; Bills.
RRPORT.--Coninions loelosure Act Amendment; MOP, Ea, Cos.
/Disorders Prevention; Bills.
TAD READlNGS.—Latiouring Poor (Ireland) ; Cordetwerted
Elections; Rills.
PETITIONS.—By Mr. DriRARI.I, from Fillmore, ht Ontadiktre,
comp) Mango' the conduct of the Bildrip of Oznird paUlng dawn
a chapel and endowing therewith neirhouring lektgin the esimity
of Buctingtum.—Mr. NAPIER, bons a piecein blind, @palms the
national system of education.—Col. THOMPSON, from the Oell rea.
lows' Society of Bradford, against the Friendly Mteletles
PET°. from visions places in Noribik, to igsoor et an adonis& of
• the suffrare ; also a petition from Norwich in favour of a Vassal
enmity rate.
NOTICES OP MOTION.-14aierriar Reroan.—Mr. MACKINNON,
when the Nimmons and Contagious Diseases Bill cones before
on the e the
house, to mots that a medical gentleman be appointed mu-
miraion.
STATE or lam..tem.—Sir D. NORRETS, on the earliest opportunity,
to move that it is necessary in order to prevent utter rain in Ireland,
tomato • general rating fur the suppirt of the poor to aid of the
poor site.
DISTRESS IN IRELAND.
On the motion for going into committee of supply,
Mr. S. CRAWFORD wished to knmr whether it was the
intention of government to make any financial statement
with respect to the poor•law unions in Ireland, and as to the
means government would adopt to meet the distress which
it was now ascertained was likely to arise from the deficiency
of food in that countryL.
Lord J. RUSSEL said th his rig fri
rater to the subject in committee of was ant eans.end would
VANCOUVER'S ISLAND.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether her Majesty's go.
vernment had made up their minas to persevere in the grant
of Vancouver's Island, and to execute.it without further tn.
quiTY ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said be was hardly in a position to
answer the question of the hon. gentleman : he expected to
see the noble lord at the head of the Colonisl•office that day
on the subject. But he would state that he was unwilling
to postpone for two years any arrangement with regard to
Vancouver's Island.
Mr. HUME asked whether the government were awnre
that the Bur:boa's Bay Company had been negotiating with
the government of the United States respecting some of their
territory?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the propmal made by the
Hudson's Bay Cempany had been made with the enaction of
the government, and it referred to territory in therm which
now belonged to the United States.
•
The house then went into committee of supply.
SUPPLY.

3001. for the Royal Irish Xcademy.
3001„ teas the Royal Ilibernian Academy.
3,0001. Royal Dublin Society.
3,4431. Belfast Academical Institution.
42,0381. new buildings of the British Museum.
On the vote of 8,7661. for the expenses of procuring anti-
wain and works of art for the British Museum,
ldr. HUME said he loped no more purchases would be
made till those that had been bought were properly ar-
Tied.
bord J. RUSSELL said that he could not make an abso-
lute pledge of that kind, because cues might occur in which
the opportunities of making purchases would be favourable.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of 1,5001. for the National Gallery,
Xr. ROME said he wished to know what the govern-
Meat meant to do with respect to the recommendation of the
committee with reference to the removal of the Royal Aca-
demy from the National Gallery, and appropriating the whole
building for the purpose of a national gallery ? e believed
that many persons would be disposed to follow the example
of Mr. Vernon, if the moommodatir pictures was better.
Lord J. RUSSELIdejd die_whoon le for pictures wai better.
Lord J. RUSBELIiJgId Qtswhole subject would receive '
**attention of the government.
The vote was then agreed is
4,7981., geological surveys of Great Britain sad Ireland
and the iteologiesheneenm.
magnetic observatories at Toronto, Cape of Good
Rope. Van Dienten's Land, he.
2,1001., for the *mastodon of the Nelson monument.
3.4101., he the civil establishment of the Bahamas.
4,0481., for the civil establishment of Bermuda.
The following votes were agreed to without disesalies :
4001. for the edabliehaleat at Table Island.

............„,„,...,.........----
13,880 e, for the charge of the civil eatatelishmants on the
western easel ef Africa.
11,5001., for the civil antablithenent at Se Helena.
The next vote was TAM for the settlement at Western
Australia.
In answer to Mr. Otaxerrone,
lldr. HAWES *aid that Weston Australia would be in-
cluded in the measure be should being in early next eassioe,
forproviding venous eolonies wide repruentative eonatito- N____ ____
__
DOD/. He added that the prospects, of this settlement were He thought it would have been more ecessistees w..—__
so tavourable that he bad hopes it would soon pay the tau and the usages of the house, if the bon. and leagued
expense of its own establishment. gentieman bed refrained from users his name on that mos-
The vets was then agreed
to. mon, end he only rose now for the purees. of preventing any
2,7261. for the settlement at Port Essequibo.—Agresed to. inference that might be drawn by his sil es from those
'rho next vote was for 6,0401. for the establishments at the observations. During the investigation that was pending
Falkland lalands. he thought it would be unbecoming in him to Introduce
In reply to Mr. Hung, circumstances personal to himself. But the hon. and
Mr. HAWES admitted that it would be desirable to learned Attorney• General, it would seem, had complained
make a clams inveritigatiou into tie expenditure upon this that there were no witnesses to support the action, or they
would have been produced before another tribunal, Now
settlemat.
The vote was then speed to. he could assure the hon. and learned gentleman that lie was
The next vote was 20,0001. for the colony of New Zealand. altogether mistaken, for there were witnesses who could
Mn. GLADSTONE asked in what condition were the re- speak to the charge preterred against the hon. and learned
tenons between the colonists and the natives of New Zee- gentleman, and who would have been examined in support
land, in regard to the transference of the property in land of the petition presented in the early part of the present
from the latter to the former ?It was in his opinion essential session against the return for Horsham, who tnot been for
to the peace and prosperity of the colony that the attainment the sudden withdrawal of the gentleman then repro-
of land by the colonists should be conducted on principles of se ded the borough in that house. If any course of inveatiga-
strict fairness and justice. non could be suggested by which the facts might be arrived
Mr. HAWES said that Lori Grey was dispened fully to at it would meet with his warmest co-operation.
respect. the spirit and scope of the treaty of Waitangi. GO- The ATTORNEY-GENERAL mid the hon. gentleman
earner Grey had, in carrying, out that treaty, acted upon seemed to have been misinformed as to what be said on Fri-
principles entirely consonant with `
land ust right. of the na- day night. What he said was this, that on the 27th or 28th
tires—upon the principle that no should be alienated of June the election for the borough of Horsham had taken
from them without a toll compensation being, or having • place, and that when Lord Edward lioward had objected to
been, made them. The extent of lands really belonging to the qualification (
petit th hon. member, and had given notice
the natives was, of courts, as yet, altogether unknown, for it of his intention to ion against the return, on the 30th of
was as yet unknown how many natives there were to claim June he was served with a writ, which wes lensed by the *t-
imid. Middle Island, there appeared ev, ry reason to be- torney of the hon. gentleman. He did not state that ie was
lieve, did not contain more than at the outside 2,000 natives, with the knowledge of the hots, gentleman. Ha further
or, according to some authorities, not more than 1,500. stated that the witnessee were prepared on their oath, and so
Whatever claims the natives had would be honourably was he, to deny the truth of the charge' brought against
respected. (Haar) him, an he further stated that the pluntie's attorney had
Mr. GLADSTONE wished to know whether Earl Grey not examined one of those witnesses, as he Das informed.
published by
considered, as was attributeZ to him in a book VANCOUVER'S ISLAND.
the Aborigines Society, that the treaty of Waitangi was an Mr. 11UNIE said that he wished t' know from the noble
act of the executive government ? lord whether he would lay on the table of the house the
Mr. HAWES was not prepared to give a definite answer ,„...ra relative to an Island, ania oleo whether he
to the question, but he theu:ht the case was most probable,
•—•-•
would state the number and names of the sharelsold,-rs in the
as hail been stated in the work to which the right hon. Hudson's By Company, and the amount of capital which
gentleman referred. they poseeasa, in order that they might be able to judge if
Mr. HUME hoped this would be the last vote for New they were in a position to co-operate in an extensive system
Zealand, now that this colony had the power of assessing its of colonimation. If the answer were not satisfactory, be
own population for its expenses ? would make a motion on the subject en Friday, and call the
Mr. HAWES said that the present vote was less by attention of the house to a grant of so
Hmuchh importance to
16,0001. than Conner grants, and he confidently anticipated the future interests of this country. ear.)
that before long no vote for New Zealand would be re- Lord J. RUSSELL said that he had seen his noble friend
quired.. at the head of the Colonial-office since his hon. friend put his
' • Mr. HUME wantad to know whether or not it was to be former question at an early period of the day. He under-
ivaderstood that each coli-ny, at it received a representative stood from his noble friend that it was his intention to pro-
oonstitution. was to pay its own cop 'n-c'• pose certain conditions to the Hudson's Bay Co
at p
ath
by
W be
Mr. HALVES said this would very desirable, and road
thtt
aoneythgaratettt
would he
acconecerazyteorlt wthithtittthwe
should be the rule whenever feasible ; but it would not in all
esses be immediately precti.able. do everything in their power to enc Hinge and promote
Mr. GLA:aSTOSE expressed his gsstification on this colonisation. Ilia noble friend intended to lay the grant and
subject to find that Enrl Grey had expressed hi. determina-
tion that, should there be turther wars with the Kasen, the the condition accompanying it before the committee of the
Privy Council, and it would depend on their determination
colonists should bear the main burden of the cost ; but, on whether the -rant would be proceeded with. It was not the
the other hen:, the colonists were entitled to demand that intention of the government to send out a committee of in-
if such cost were thrown upon them they should also hare qairy, which would be Wended with great expense, and
thelbenefit aswee as the burden of self-government. whose report could not be presented tonere two years.
Mr. HAWES and that the last despatch from Sir Hurry Mr. HUME said he would be satiated if sufficientaide- time
Smith conveyed his views that no time should be lost in was given to consider such documents as might bo l b
giving a reprove native torsi of eocernment to the Cape fore the house.
colony,. and the Colonial-office entirely concurred with Sir Mr. ULADS PONE maid he did not understand from the
IL Singh en this point noble lord that the g-aot was to depend on any examination
Mr. M. GIBSON observed that whenever the large of the conduct of the Hudson's Boy Company, up to the
salaries of the colonial officers were objected to in the house, present time, or the legality of the despotic powers which
the hon, gentleman talked of the greet sacrifices submitted they exercised. He was of opinion that no restrietionsc.uld
to by the holders if these offices. It was tither remarkable, remedy the fendemental unfitcess of the compan hy for the
however, Vat so many persons should be always beseech- work of colonisation. (lieu, hear.) They migt be the
ing the Colonial-office to subject teem to these sacrifices. means of preveming positive evils, but they could never
(A laugh.) elutes of persona
the powers requisite for colonisation.
Mr. GLADSTONE said there were two Lord J. RUSSELL said that inquiry into
other conduct of
with whom the Colonial-office bad to deal : thou who were the Hudson's Bsy Company wee lung ago ded by his
caking office, and those whom it was the business of the co• noble friend. Trutt inquiry was proceeding, but it was not
lonial department to seek out to hold office, on amount of intended to wait for the result of it before they proceeded
their tried efficiency. It was the latter class by whom, as with the grant. The opinion of his noble friend was, and he
he understood it, sacrifices were made. (Hear, hear.) himself concurred in that opinion, that they would have to
The vote was then agreed to. wait long for colonisation except by means of the Hudson's
The next vote was 0,8271. to defray the expense of the Bay Company.
settlement at Labuan. NATIONAL SYSTEM OF EDUCATION IN
Mr. HUME objected to the extravagant cost of this set- IRELAND.
Clement in the very first year of its MOHASCO. There would Mr. 0. A. HAMILTON said he would confine himself, in
not be 30 people in the whole colony for several years to bringing forward the motion, to the bearing which the pre-
come, yet there was to be a governor with 2,0001. a year, and sent system of national education in Ireland had on the
the most preposterous charges for deputy-governor, first established church in that country. The motion itself was :
master-attendant—nobody knew upon whom—and what not. That so bumble address be presented to her Majesty, peaying
He moved, as an amendment, to reduce the estimate to mat bee
ofMa? wilt be graciously pleased to direct that Ruch a mo-
-3,0001. m• non f tbe systcrn of national education in Ireland may be
Mr. B. HAWES said that the necessity for establishing a made as may remove the conscientious objections which a very
va_ trainmr
that system of trnhe"ellvtiry an:tatty of th
settled ienwenotapebmllted chou;clozhener:
station in the Ea-tern Archipelago was forced on the att
don of the goverment by the large manufacturing commu- wise, that meson may be taken to enable those ol the clergy and laity
nities, including Glasgow and Manchester, and accordingly of the established church who estertain such courcientious venetian'
Labuan was selects-1 for that pus pose. If the salary of the to extend the blessinga of scriptural education in Ireland.
governor was too small, a man of the requisite talents could The sum and substance of his complaint wes that the priest.
not be secured, and therefore, although the amount of the pie of toleration in ed.cational
I matters'
For this he might
as it existed in this
vote appeared large, the present establishment was considered country, was not applicable to reland.
to be only cu
te u the importance of the object to be at- rely on the language of the noble lord opposite and the right
tamed warranted, and he should be sorry to find the House hon. baronet the member for Tamworth ; but he would
of Commons disported to reduce the amount of the vote. rather quote a different authority, that of Dr. Briggs. [The
Mr. HUME mid that the establishment of Labuan was hon. gentleman here quoted a portion of ••speech delivered
one which could be required for a full rown colony alone, by Dr. Briggs at a Roman catholic meeting held on the 16th
and not for an iniant and newly founded settlement. March, to the effect that religion should be made the basis
Mr. B. OSBORNE said that before such au establish- of education.] That being admitted, the question of the ad-
ment as that of Labuan was resolved on by the government mission of the holy scriptures in national educatiotal este-
there ought to have been laid on the table an estimate of blishments wasraieed. In Englandthedinenten and the mem.
the proposed expense which the new colony would involve. ben of the established church were left independent with re-
Looking at what had recently occurred, he was disposed to gardtotheir religious education and very lately the Roman:ca-
ul that government had not acted quite fairly towards the Wolinwere allowed 'o participate in public grants of money
church, in not having added a bishop to the newly created for schools, in which then Roman catholic doctrines were
staff of Lebnon. (A laugh.) taught. The utmost posible toleration was allowed in
Mr. MACKINNON was of opinion that Borneo might, at England, but in Ireland the religious scruples of the mean-
no distant period, become • British possession and therefore bers of the established cheetah were not regarded. Up to
he thought that the present vote was ens which ought to be 1831 the principle of scriptural education was adopted in
cheerfully acceded to. Inland, by what was called the Kildare-place Society.
Mr. GLADSTONE was rather alarmed at the views ex- There wen 1,634 schools under that society, which were
pressed by his boo. friend, seeing that the Dutch had attended by 132,000 persons. There were other schools also
already long possessed a settlement at Borneo, end established under their superintendence, and on the whole scriptural
a regular government there. He was of opinion that the education was given to no fewer than 374,000 children, of
wisest mode of proceeding wee. for England to cultivate the whom at least one half were Roman catholic:. Toe Roman
territory she already posseseed, instead of seeking to extend church in Ireland repudiated the principle of acriptural edu-
it. The hoe. member for Middlesex had not shown his usual cation in 1832. He did not find fault with them for object-
ecusracy in what he said about a bishop for the colony of lug to the principle on which that society was conducted ;
Labuan. If he looked through the colonial estimates he but a different system of education was introduced, to which
would find only two charge' of that nature ; one of which the great body of the protestant clergy in Ireland was
was 6001. for the Bishop of New Zealand, which was one of opposed, and their feelings should nu be respected.
the cheapest outlays that ever was made, seeing that it had It was the principle of Lou protestant religion
enured the services of a first-rate man. He certainly thought to 'allow the free use of the scriptures at all
that the charge of 3.3751. for the governor and lieut. toyer. times. But as the system of national education was at
Dort of tubule was excessive. If Si: James Brooke's other present conducted a protestant patron could not carry out
duties called him away from Libman, the salary of his do that principle of his religion in the national schools out of
praty ought to be earvednut of his own allowance. deference to the scruples of the Roman catholics. The con-
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that, undoubtedly, England sequence was that, instead of being a united system it was
wield be better without than with Borneo. As for Lsbuan • separate system, and if pushed to its legitimate comae-
i *OW* Ina different Sir James Brooke was a remarkable queue he believed that it wies a system which would be
MUM, who had, by his energy and enterprise, opened out equally repugnant to the Roman catholic and the protestant.
new prospects for English commerce in the casters seas. If all the members of the church of England were appor-
When he (Lord J. Russell) saw Sir James Brooke be was in- tinned congregationally among the ministers of the church
formed that in time the trade in thou seas would become of England, there would be for each minister a congregation
considerable, and Earl Grey in his evidence before the of 600; and were the funds similarly apportioned there
estimates committee had stated that the settlement of Labuan would be for each minister a salary of only 2001., • fact
would very soon pay its own expenses. The question there- affording a sufficieat answer to the as of the noble
lore was, whether the bower thought it worn while to try lord apposite on a former occasion, that the funds of the
the experiment of founding the settlement. If after a short Irish church were inadequate:to provide spiritual education
time the colony was found not to pay its expenses it could be foe the members of that church. He complained that
given up. He could not agree in the last suggestion offered the patronage of the government was systemati-
by the right hon. gentltinso °plush. with raped to the ally withheld from those ministers who bad ma-
salary of the lieut. governor of Labuan. nifested any hostility, however conscientious, to the
Mr. HUME was one et those who had recommended the national eystion of education in Irelawd. He called upon
ent to take possession of Lab an ; but so far was he the government to relinquish this evil eourse—to act to-
=reaming that a vote like the present would be the wards the people of Ireland in this particular as they acted
ru of his recommendation that the very largest establish- towards tee people of this country, and to proceed upon the
mintent he had looked for there was a corporal's guard of principle that there was but one test of right and wrong,
=wines, which any of the ships craning in the eastern acid- namely, the revealed word of God, which was not to be de-
pelages could furnish. from for any considerations, sectarian or pelitioal.
- Kr. URQUHART complained of the extravagance of the r 61taclergymen out of 2,000 had signed the petition he
gentscment, and stated his intention to vote for the reductioe had presented to that house, for an alteration of the present
d. ',stem, and had thus evinced their devotion to what they
proposed.
HAWES mad that 16001, of the amount of the vote deemed a hallowed MM. lie urged upon bon. gentlemen
was for public buildings. The sum of 2,0001. was not, be eon- to sok the whether
d teed conscientious men w
andashieconsulardutlacilledhimfrequentlytoßonsee,there entitled to some weieht, andt, he
to calledreli uevepon
ththe house,
must be • resident chief authority at Delouse in his absence, and upon governmenose clue
for whom, in the person of Mr. Napier. 1,3001. was DOI too gymen from the
and files posit
Bad to ion with regard to
large a salary. If the hon. members for Middlesex or Mon- the government, eirdiat
trees could 1 sat their fingers on a tingle item of the vote that liOCks, and with regard to the protestant community of tro-
wel extravagant he would reduce it. land, in which their conscientious scruples had placed them.
lir. fd'OREGOR defended the vote, and stated itto be Sir W. SOMERVILLE said the real questioa was,
far ' from an exorbitant one, considering the importance of whether the mixed system of education in Ireland, which
Lawn as • settlement. had now been established there for fifteen years, was to ben
Mr. G. THOMPSON only regretted that his bon. friend set superior? and relaced by one which the hon. gentiemaa
had not proposed to reduce the vote to nothing, as he should thought He trusted that the house would net ammo
lima have had much more pleasure in supportiag his amend- to any such proposition, but permit the system which
Meet. The new settlement at Labuan would only lead to for years bed been making prosperous increase in Ire-
the more speedy and effectual extinction of the aboriginal lead to complete its growth. He contended that the bon.
%habitants of that island, and also to increase the difficulties gentleman wee erroneous in saying that the system was in.
that existed in the trade of the Eastern Archipelago. compatible with the existence of strict protestantiam in Ire-
Lod PALMERS lON said that the very reverse of what land ;on the eon the while a very large portion of the
the hon. member had stated was tae fact, the settlement of protestant clergy there had all along warmly supported the
Wotan being created for the purpose of protecting own- mitre, very many of those who had been prominently hostile
1111211811 and of extirpating the pirates wbo swept the Ma Of 10 it were now giving in their adhesion, and admitting their
the eastern islands by thousands, murdering and robbing all peat misooscepuen of the real character of the system.
who fell into their hands. Among then the hon. baronet quoted Dr. Elrington and
Mr. G. THOMPSON replied that the whole thing was • Mr. Woodward, both of whom had, in written conunnades-
jeb
_concocted by Sir James Brooke, who came over to Eng- Sons, wholly retracted their former denunciations of the
land decked out in the most gaudy and meretricious ooloure, plan, conceding that their original objections to It hail re.
and who, by dint of feasting officers of the navy at mated from a want of that close personal inquiry thee the
Sarawak, Mid pl eying the lion at dinner parties in Glasgow amlnent which, sines applied, had now rendered them ha
sod London bad messeded in getting the present allowance eager wspperters. Once abandon the universal plan ei
of 2,0001. a yes, made him. cod theft genet Inevitably rise up ia stay maw
Mr. HUMS sea ellether Sir James Brooke's salary of seVraki=ols eendected by all the nualuom ids. la
5001. a year, as moral et Senseo, was to be continued to hire w would lethOoi kilt the .edged thus.
in addition be his bilowenee as governor of Laboan ? noketielarian peddler thili- megelere
Lead PALIONISTON replied that Sir James Brookewas peaks, nod which the Feria Ilia asehendienewal=
to soodbmi he'restsive his •ary es consul, in addition to his asady mieneled :wholly to remeres There did set edell
governorship allewssen gads, tbie eyelem the alighted, egarcion upon ems=
Mr. BUMS eemplekedtkat the preload estimate only eat for every sh:rd mesh, the *ritual inatresties
fcrth a whoa et the vets required for Labium, which ex- for it by the • jtitriss_ ..__ . .
seeded la emeast wow The course taken by the governs
ac=tilie) tom toe tYrtedi Malted mkt
meet in *I awl other money vo6ss demanded for the solo- mealleMbas.
aim was mon aesremitatiossi. After arm% decks which the Bream again peg the
• Aker akw trunk hem Adm. DVIeDAs, ''',77:,7 - = Tuition.
The searlittninvitisi-.Fer the vote ...... •.- 58 - Mr. GROGAN roes and suppested the amsnimme. •
.. . Agnate it - 12-44 Sir W. VliftNßß said that die ben_ uiejoi of doer
The vote was aimed to. don ever introduced into Inked eel MO le. 0.4
1,0231. lialigelend.. street Society, whisk wee Sr aMilg id& stabs
• 18,0281, WesseaLsim
si,epoveratealsilies ). of the Boman cathoop ir ia=aTki Reese of 001111010-bed
11,67 M. depertments in British North no right to appr . t 'of public money for educe-
Amens'. don in Ireland
.its wee* * manlier as to ezelede from its
14,3081. Indian depeletintiatiareade. participation them wile had formerly been enabled by its
The above votes were eignsaillm aid to effect to Ike* (cod. Re supmted the amendment.
The Cemintittell then repertoires:est, and asked lan to Its. S. OBAWIPOILD did net bie that the protestant

of Ireland
inadopting the
and he perOsidatedbf
eses. sumbelopposi te withweedd warn the bogie to be very cautious
esemidesest that was behre
it
Mr. S. OSBORNE seld that the Originalotion of the
hon. member es it stood cm the boqiut three month_ ago was
very different from that which he had brought forward now.
The hon. member's first modal mutely s elated to the exclu.
lion of protestant children from the educational scheme, but
Ids resent motion went to establish reseons for making a
special grant of money necessuy foe the purposes of protes-
tant education in Ireland. Ti.. amendment was nothing
more or less than an insidious attempt to overthrow a system
beyond all
of education in Ireland which had been successful
uty nobly
'sample. The Roman catholic clergy did t
by the children enUusted to their care. In one district with
whieh he was acquainted, and indeed connected, the rivalry
of the Kildarestreet Society towards the Roman catholic
schools was such, th-t they went the length of tempting the
children t repair to their schs oflers of fie. a week and
• lee of mutton on Fridsys Mind so strong was this com-
petition under the old system, that he had great
difficulty in keeping the children together in his own
school, for the Kildare-street Society Win coaxed
them away with sweetcakes, and be was obliged to give
them lerger and sweeter cakes to prevent them from desert-
ing. The present system of education in Ireland had been
eminently successful, and if any other system was to be
set on foot to rival it, the result would he most disas-
trous. Protestantism was carried to such
the an
doors of an
extreme in
Ireland es to induce people there to shut
hospital in the face of et mon even in extremis, who would
not consent to hear the Bible read to him. Ile put it tofo the
hone member opposite whether he was not a director an
hospital where such a regulation was enforced. The reading
of the bible was not interdicted in the schools supported by
the present graotcoitrary, there were certain hours
during which the Bible was ashy used, and there was no
ground for the complaint urged by the hon. member.
Mr. NAPIER traced the progress of education in Ireland
front the union to VOL when toe nationel eyetene was esta-
blished, at which period there were, he said, 300,000 Roman
catholice attending the reboots in which the Scriptures derc
read, and which the Roman catholic clergy were then stre.
nurehly opposing. He contended that that sydem had been
founded on the prineiple of concession to the Boman catholic
6ergy, and of objection to the protestant church, thus
giving a preference which wee not ennformable to the este-
Wished religion of the state. So that by the introduction of
the National Board of Education, they raised up
.two eye-
' tents and two sets of men antagonistically and conscientiously
opposed the one to the other. That being 1.0, he must say
he coneidered it most unfair to refuse to those protestant
clergy who were conseientionsly oppoed to the national sys-
tem any aid out of the public funds. It was no answer
the part of the government to say they would grant that i
to those who assisted the national aystem, because. i
would be asking those men to violate their consciences, andt
act in opposition to their firm belief in the right
of private judgment as applied to the word of God
One cf the bet remedial measures for Irelane was to extend
the advantages of education in that part of Ihr Majesty's
dominions ; and with that view he eupported the proposition
of his hon. colleague. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL, said that the object of the present
motion was to overthrow the system of education which had
been introduced into Ireland in the year 1832—a system
which bad since received the sanction and support of Mt-
'waive vvernmenu : it had been continued by the admi-
Discretion of Sir Robert Peel, who had rented to make any
alteration In the amount of the public grants, and the system
had one on until the schools in Ireland had increased lel
4,000, and the number of scholars to 400,000. (Hear, her)
lie therefore thought that this ought not to be treated as a
new question, or a new proposition now brought '
forward for the first time by the governml
The system introduced by Lord Stenley as an experimeat
had been feund in practice more successful than had bees
anticipated, and therefore there was a prima facie ground
far heisting any alteration or modification. It was said that
heroic the adoption of this plan there existed the Kildare-
street Society. True; and he (Lard J. Russell) thought
that in a country where the majority of the people were
proteatants. it was of great benefit to found education upon
the bible, and to use it as a school book ; but in that opiates
he was opposed by a majority of the clersd of the established
church, who thought the Bible was nut enough in itself, but
there must be also the teaching of the Catechism, and at-
tendance upon the services of the church. This plan, if
adopted in Ireland, would exclude from the schools a great
portion of the population—that was to say, the Roman ca-
tholic pepulsti in. Now he was on principle in favour of
the plan which was the most comprehensive, and which
should take in as nearly as possible the whole population.
(Hear, hear.) This was tbs. principle o doi the
most good, and of acting mostfairly towaf rds the great
majority of he people. Much had been said ab tit a viola-
tion of conscience. 11 could not think that the protestant&
bad a right to object to the system. They might, disapprov-
ing of the foundation of the school,
what h have the righte
objected to
was that they raised an outcry against a grant of money in
support of schools which would be attended by others. He
concurred with the hon. tr ember for Rochdale (Mr. B. Craw-
ford) that as the established church was richly endowed, it
might establish schools of its own. (Hear, hear.) But to
separate grants for them he was opposed, because each a
proceeding would seriously injure the system of national
On
education which bad been established. (Hear, bear.)
the whole he thought it would be wrong to disturb the
system of combined education. The system had now been
tried for 16 years—it had been pursued during the adminis-
tration of Eari Grey, Lord hieloourne, and Sir R. Peel ; it
tended to unite protestants and Roman Catholics, and but
for the prejudices of some of the clergy would unite them
still more, and, therefore, he hoped it would continue to
receive the' support of the legislature. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME thought that no answer had been given to the
speech of the boa. member for Middlesex (Mr. Osborne) in
reference to the refusal to admit a Roman catholic into an
hospital in Dublin. He had originally supportei the system ,
as introduced by Lard Stanley, and he hold it to be one of
the best measures ever applied by the British parliament to
Ireland, and he could wish • similar system, which was so
well calculated to put down sectarian rancour, was adopted
for this country.
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON begged to explain. The hospital
to which reference had been made had been established with
protestant money, to afford medical aid and spiritual conso-
lation to members of the established church; but he was
confident no Roman catholic labouring under the effects of
accident would be refused admission.
Mr. REYNOLDS said that, remembering the charge
made against the hospital in question, he could not but
think the answer jest given was equivalent to a plea of
fer it was no justification in • Christian country to
ay that the hospital bad been founded with protestant
money. He had never before heard of such a descrip"
antiond
being given to the circulating medium. (" Hear,
laughter.) This was practical bigotry on the part of the
hon. and learned gentleman, who was the parliamentary
Ilturdian of the rights of the College of the holy and
Tided Trinity in the city of Dublin. (Hear, hear.) From
that hon. and learned member he was stonished to bear
that there was an attempt to proselytise a
that university.
Why, it was clear that a Roman catholic might enter as a
ail and at the end of four years become a candidate for •
eaYa{arehip ; but however great his scholastic quaitications
he wesivadmissible to thatoffiee unless he produced a meda-
list* that he had received the pacramenesecording to the
of the established church nthe college chapel. Therefore,
unless he became an apostate, he was excluded from honours
was
end emoluments. In short, though Trinity College
celled • national university. no man, from the hall porter to
the senior fellow, could hold office unless he subscribed the
Thirty-nine Articles.
Mr. NAPIER explained, and said that he had been mis-
ted in being charged wide inconsistency.
WC". NEWDEGATE deprecated the taunts which had
boss thrown out by the hon. members for Montrose and
Middlesex. He had only heard from them words to the
effeet that the system of national education which suited the
catholics, suited some of the protestant', and therefore that
' they should keep it. But they found that there were 1,600
out of 2,000 of the clergy who found it incompatible with
their duty to accept the terms offered, and who prayed that
'they might have some assistar ce. He proceeded, amidst
iseveral interruptions from Mr. Osborne, to combat the user-
Eons of the hon. member, which be said were based upon
the inexperience of his ,(Idr. Osborne's) own facts. The
hon. member seemed to be afraid that there should be
a single protestant establishment in all Ireland. He
talked of proselytism ; but he (Mr. Newdegate) asked
was there not such a thing as proselytism among the Roman
catholic ? Forming as it did an euntial portion of their re-
ligion, were the in a position to taunt protestant' with the
practice ? Hehamented the decision that her Majesty's no-
vernment had come to, and his convict on was that well in
tended and well devised as the system had been by Lord
Stanley it was unjust to the protestanta of Ireland ; and be
hoped that a system would be established in that country
which would be in accordance with the feelings of both reli-

vase
After 'bort conversation,
Mr. KEOGH expressed tion that the commission
was a woes job. The annum shoned that no eases
came before toe court, while a large sum was annually paid
to the officers, who enjoyed a perfect sinecure. The judge
at Sierra Leone received 2,2601. a year, while the chief jus.
ti
of the colony, with no assistant, received but 1,6001.
The government, feeling this to be a bad case, halt ff
o ere
but
d to
give up the appointment of a judge. at Sierra emaintained those at Havannah, Surinam, and the Cape,
none of whom had decided a single ease for the last three
ye. re. Surely the judge at Sierra Leone might be charged
with the whole duty. Never was a more f.vourable oppor-
tunity presented for retrenchment.
Viscount PALMERSTON said he had already informed
the house that the judge at Sierra Leone would not be con-
tinued, and one of the judges at Havannah having died the
appointment would not healed up.
Mr. HUME said thew courts were a nest of sinecure'.
Mr. BRIGHT compared the operations of the African
with
the to the knight errantry of old, end contended that
with the prevailing distress in this country no unnecessary
expense ought to be incurred for the purposes for which this
vote was designed. He was opposed to all government in-
terferoice on the question of slavery and the slave trade.
Mr. P. HOWARD said the mixed commission had been
established in compliance with the wish of the country.
After a few words from Mr. Uneicstaar,
The gallery was cleared for a divisbn, but none took
place, and the vote was agreed to.
On the vote of 43,1901. for the consular establishments,
Mr. URQUHART moved. to reduce it by 1,4 , on ac-
count of the consul for Warsaw, which he contended ought
to he under the head of Poland, and not Russia.
Lord PALMERSTON said he had no objection to the
alter.tion from Russia to Poland, which was accordingly

made.
Mr. URQUHART then moved that the vote be reduced
by the sum of 0,0001., as t.e objected to several of the details.
proposed by her Lord PALM
MERSTON defended the vote as originally
aj esty's go ve.
Mr. URQUHART declined to divide the committee on
his amendment, and the vote was
49 put and agreed to.
The next vote proposed was 49,4001. to defray the charge
of the British settlement at Hong- Kong and the consular
establishments in China.
Mr. C. ANSTEY complained of the excess of authority
exercised by the consuls to Cbina, which bad led to diffe-
rences and loss of life there. He especially alluded to
the course pursued by Mr. Consul Alcock, and asked the
noble lord at the bead of foreign affairs if he had taken any
steps to reduce the consular functions in China to a more
modest scale ?
Lori PALMERSTON was of opinion that Mr. Alcock
had acted with great propriety, and he (Lord Palmerston)
had nut taken any steps to alter the consular powers, nor
should he do so.
Dr. BOWRINO inquired whether it wan ed
intend to con-
tinue the consuls at Ninepo and Amoy, where there were no
duties to discharge?
Lord PALMERSTON said that this was a matter worthy
of consideration, and he hoped next year to reduce the esta-
blishment in that quarter of the world.
After a few words from Mr. I.latres the vote was

agreed to
On the vote of 10,0001. to defray the charge for extraordi-
nary expenses of ambassadors being put,
Mr. URQUHART said on this vote he had numerous
objections to raise, and, looking at the hour which had
arrived, he should move thtt the Chairman report progress
mid ask leave to sit again.
The gallery was cleared for a division. None, however,
took place, but the vote was agreed to, the house resumed,
the Chairman reported progress, and the resolutions were
ordered to be received to-morrow (this day), at 12 o'clock.
NUISANCES AND CONTAGIOUS DISEASES BILL.
The house went into committee on this bill.
On the motion of Mr. WAILLEY a clause was inserted
providing that no hospital or house of recovery should be
opened without previous notice having been given to the
board of commissioners of public health.
The several eauses of the bill having been opted to the
house r,sumed, and the report was ordered to be brought up
on Wednesday.
BATTERSEA PARK.
0r the motion of Lord Mourn's( Lave was given to
bring in a bill to amend the act fur making a park at
Bat. ersea.
The house adjourned at two o'clock.

ELECTION COMMITTEES—YESTERDAY.
DUBLIN.—The proceedings consisted entirely of
rehuttiog evidence in favour of the sitting member's quail-
cation.
CIIELTENBAM.—Rebutting evidence in support of
the sitting member heard.
HORSHAM.—Petitioner's case closed.
Committees severally adjourned to Tuesday (this day).

gloss.
The house then divided—For the motion 118
Against it
On our return to the gallery the house had gone into com-
mittee of supply, when the following votes were agreed to
13,4511. for emigration, 41,1501. for stipendiary magistrates
in the West India colonies and the Mauritian.
On the question that 30,0001. be granted for the support
of captured °way
I Lord 0. BINTINCK inquired whether the system of
importing negroes into the colonies, which had been tried,
Imago unsuccessfully, was to be persisted in ? One of the
slips (the Bangalore) that had been sent to the coast bud
sada rather a good trip, having received 7001. for the pas.
sap of one negro boy only 13 years of age. He wished also
to know whether any other and better facilities would be
given to our colonists towards obtaining a supply of labour?'
Lord J. RIIBBI4LL said that with respect to what tea
been done it had been done at the request of the oolimble
themselves. As to the future, it was not intended to baba.
in any menus ter the purpose of legalising the purchase et
ea She east of Able".
mers Hindi said that goverment had sent oat two Woe, II
not in eseseines with the wines of the colonists, b* to
gratify a edam of their own. These ships had been Weed
nod wasanblehaving_brought Use one negro between
them. aeleelithr.) He wished to know who was to pay
the armor
The CHANCELLOR at the ILICHEQUER was afraid 11
that he nest pay, although the skips had been sent oat at
tholepin inure Mahe rehmilled—Vote 'greed to.
stunted semmisaions.
lllisl=T skated to the vote, on the grossed
tbenhese essesehina Wen virtually eines:urn He should
move tbei the one be rente 10,0001.
Lord PALIOIRIITOII da dssied the vote, and stated that
the mixed essrminen were. appointed under treaty, by
which dray was bound to be sudatained. And it was ite.
-wary*" nada be le, kr if any one we olished, end
-4 Ma adhanrarde avowed under Wereles oab f the other