The Express.
London, England, 1851-04-12 00:00:00

. THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, APRIL 12, 1851.

ministers had devised certain schemes, and, further, had
proposed them to the house. The distress had been an-
nounced
by the crown, remedial plans were proposed by !
the ministry—happy the interest that found itself placed
under such circumstances. (Laughter, and cheers.) There
was one measure to which he would ien refer, namely, a
measure having fur its object the relief of the distress cons-
plaimd of, and which, to a certain degree, at least in the I
opinion of ministers, was sufficient for the purpose. It was
the opinion of ministers that it was desirable that the ex- i
muses incurred by the owners and occupiers of laud
in the maintenance of pauper lunatics should be
borne by the community in general, and that
the tendency of that measure would be to relieve distress.
In making that suggestiou her Majesty's ministers acted ,
on the suggestion contained ill the report of the Lord's
committee on the burdens on I intl. Her Majesty's 'Minato
having deliberated on the question, made a MN-
sition to this house of a partial character, and I
brought forward that proposition, the teudency of which
was to mitigate distress and remove depression. (Hear.)
Well, they hail a practical measure before the house, no
matter what its nature, but a practical measure they had
introduced by her Majesty's ministers after due deliherathin.
(Hear, hear.) lie (Mr. Disraeli) did not consider the pro-
' position as one to be despised, lie agreed with the hon.
member for Esser, that it conceded a great principle ; and
he reminded the right hon. gentleman (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) of the fact, but that right lion. gentleman
misunderstood the tendency of his obstevutions. He (Mr.
Disraeli) valued the admission of the principle made by
that proposition of her Majesty's ministers, nut because he
would fo md on it any proposal to remove from the
land the expenses of the local administration of the country.
There wasnothin; which lie would more deprecate ordeplure
thou the removal of that local administration. (Hear, hear.)
What he valued was that the proposition of her Majesty's
minister. was an admission of this, that the local taxation
of the country, which was the consequence of local adminis-
tration, was peculiarly a burden on one particular denoini
nation of prup
.erty. (hear, hear.) That was what he
valued in the plan of her Majesty s ' ter.; and that
admission on their part might lead to the consideration of
important circumstances, which he did not think it neces-
sary just then to enter into. Well, he had so fur placed
before the house one moderate and practical measure, the
tendency of which would be to alleviate the distress
of the agricultural interests, and the overwhelm-
ing and excessive difficulties which were now ex-
perienced by the occupiers of the soil. (Hear, hear.)
That was a measure sanctioned by ministers, which had
been submitted by them to examination and consideration,
and introduced to the notice of parliament under most re-
markable circumstances, which proved how deeply they
must have considered and how anxious they were to arrive
at a satisfactory conclusion. (Hear, hear.) But, deeply
convinced as they were of the distress of the owners and
occupiers of the soil, and notwithstanding the atiallaiioa of
the Crown to that effect, they aubsequently declined the
remedy; and after several sittings, in the course of
which having exhausted their cunsitleraton on the
subject, they finally abandoned it. (Hear, hear.)
Ile would now remind the house of another
remedy, moderate, to be sure, in conception, hut the relief
resulting from which was certain to be appreciated. Ile (Mr.
Disraeli) was not now about to recommend anything; and
WWI only going through the catalogue to show it was not a
matter of difficulty to find remedies fur the distress, none of
which, however, had been selected by the government.
(Hear, hear.) Many leading country gentlemen on both
sides of the house, men well acquainted with our provincial
wants, had suggested that, already the community, having
undertaken the costs of public prosecutions, they should
complete that duty and undertake the expenses of gaols and
prisons, in which the public was equally concerned. (Hear,
hear.) That would be a relief, though he was not
then prepared to say to what extent, nut know-
ing the amount. But, however moderate in amount,
it would be extremely appreciated by the farming
classes. (Hear, hear.) There was another measure which
her Majesty's ministers might have brought forward,
of a more important diameter' which might have been
adopted, and would have afforded great relief to the occu-
piers of the soil, and the adoption of which would not have
interfered with the commercial system of local administra-
tion. Ile had before him one such measure at that moment.
But he should call the attention of the house to the expen-
diture in this country upon the poor. The total expendi-
ture on the poor in England and Wales, as appeared by the
last return, war 6,200,000/., less than five millions of which
was expended on the maintenance of in-door and out-door
poor of this country, whilst under the head of other ex-
penses immediately connected with the relief, no less a
sum was expended than 1,100,0001. (Hear, hear.) Now,
the house should observe the items which formed that cou-
siderable amount were little, or not at all, affected by the
agency of local administration. It consisted of establish-
ment charges, and fixed salaries, of some 13,000 officers in
England and Wales, all which officers had been devised by
their new laws. (Hear, hear.) Now, if they applied the
same examination to Ireland, they would find a smaller ex-
pense, of shoot 370,0001. per aunniu ; altogether a sum of
about 1,700,0001. which was fastened on the real property,
and pressed most heavily on landed property, particularly
in Ireland ; and which was scarcely affected in any degree
by that local administration and government with which
they were all agreed it would be most impolitic and in-
expedient to interfere. (Hear.) The surplus of the present
year, 2,000,0001., would have permitted the government
to have dealt with this great sum of 1,700,0001.' and if
ministers had prepared a well-digested measure for this
object—if they had met parliament after that important
recognition from the throne of continued distress and ditfi-
eulty amongst a most important class of her Majesty's sub-
jects—if they had introduced, under these eireinustauces,
a measure having such for its object, they would have done
more than merely relieved the suffering interests from
great and heavy incumbrances, they would have laid the
foundation of a wise, a teinperats, and a remedial legisla-
two, which would have assisted the cultivator of the soil

1.
Sir F. T. BARING replied that the rum was applied for I had *upward their opinion on the subject, and immedi- i
disihreat artisiss, sash as rum, and tea, and other articles.. ately afterwards the government had made a proposition
la OAR es gigs lbw In detail, he would move for a return ' with the object of mitigating that distress. (Hear, hear.)
ea the vakdeet se hr Mit could be made out. The financial statement of the government had met with :
WATERFORD, WEXFORD, WICKLOW, AND an extremely unfavourable reception. Looking at the,
DUBLIN RAILWAY. quarters whence that opposition principally emanated, he
Sir W. VERNER moved that there be laid before this thought the obloquy-which the scheme hail encoun- 1
house the returns relating to the Waterford, Wexford, tered was unjust; the supporters of the government"
Wicklow, and Dublin Railway Company, which are re- had very little rause to impugn the validity of the prin.
quired by the sessional resolutions of 11416 relative to rail- ciples on which it was founded, for it .was in consomme° '
way bills.—Agreed to. with the principles professed by the government and by
kILRUSII AND ENNISTYMON WORKHOUSES. their general supporters. The right hon. gentleman would
Mr. REYNOLDS moved for a return of the deaths in the be the last to deny that his financial scheme had been wel-
Kline& and Ennistymon workhouses, hospitals, Winne- corned by his friends in a manner not very flattering to a '
ries, and auxiliaries from 25th of March, 1850, to 25th of minister of finance. (Hear, hear) There had been a great
March, 1851, including various details.—Agreed to. outcry in the country, especially in the towns, against the '
THE KAFFIR WAIL. budget; there was hardly any term of vituperation, any
Lord J. RUSSELL postponed the motion that stood in epithet of obloquy, which was not showered upon the
his name for a select committee relative to the Kaffir war Chancellor of the Exchequer. (Hear, hear.) He was viii-
fur Monday night, and said he should propose it as an fied, denounced, and described as the Jonah that ought to I
amendment to the motion of the hon. member for Stafford- be thrown to the surging waves, in order to save the pe-
shire, which stands for Tuesday. ruled cabinet. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) Indeed, it I
SALARIES OF OFFICERS IX QUARTER SES- was generally admitted amongst the members of the party,'
SIONS couirrs (IRELAND). that though they were prepared to make any sacrifice to
Mr. SADLEIR asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland keep the government in since, stM it was a sine qua non
what information, if any, had been collected by the govern- that the right hon. gentleman should never again appear
meat to justify the scale of salaries, the stamp duties and before the house as Chancellor of the Exchequer. (Cheers
fees, proposed by the Civil Bills, &c. (Ireland) Bill, and and laughter.) Amid this general discontent might be par-
whether any, and what, return. hail been obtained from the ticularly recognised the metropolitan agitation, an agitation '
assistant barristers and clerk, of the peace of counties with which hail its peculiar characteristics, which threatened a
reference to the amount of business done in the Quarter great deal, but which generally performed very little, which
Sessions Courts during the last few years. did not carry reform bill+, like Birmingham, or corn law
Sir W. sOMERYILLE said the scales refirred to by the repeal, like Manchester, but which always deported itself at
hon. and learned gentleman had been founded upon returns a crisis in the must alarming manner—(hear, hear)—which
made in 11419 and la-50, and also upon returns of the popu- always commenced by announcing that it would stop the '
lation of each county in hall. supplies, and invariably ended be supporting the ministry.
TILE TAX UPON CARRIAGES. (Cheers and laughter.) If such were the state of the
Sir D. L. EVANS gave notice that he should, on Mon- urban communities, such the manner and spirit in which
day night, ark the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he the proposal of the government was welcomed by their
intended to make any reduction in the tax upon carriages. habitual supporters both in the house and the country, in '
TILE DUMMY OF GLOUCESTF:It. what manner had their proposition for alleviating the ilia-
Sir E. N. BUXTON, on behalf of Mr. lionsman, asked tresses and assisting the difficulties of the agriculturist
the First Lord of the Treasury, whether it was true that classes been welcomed by the house and the country ? On
the Bishop of Gloucester had renewed the lease of Hier- the evening of the financial statement, when the right hon.
field ; and if so whether there was any objection to laying gentleman was denounced by his intimate supporters and
a copy of the lease before the house, together with any corn- attacked by his most confidential adherents, his right bon.
munications that may havessed with the ecclesiastical friend (Mr. Ilerries) hail made no allusion whatever to that
COMMiAhIO.IICTI on the aubject ?pa part of the ministerial statement. Ile (Mr. Disraeli)
Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to reply that the took no part in that debate. Two other county
ecclesiastical commission had received no information members hml made some reference to the loupe-
on the subject, and that it was not within their jurisdic- aitiona ' • the hon. member for Oxfordshire (Mr. Henley) had
tion. noticed them, but with characteristic caution had given no
THE UNITED STATES TARIFF. opinion on them. (hear, hear) The hon. member for
Lord J. MANNERS asked the President of the Board of Essex (Sir J. Tyrell), instead of disapproving, had shrewdly
Trade whether any information had been received rela- accepted the principal one with great approbation,
tive to the mode of assessing ad ralorem duties in the United observing, that it was the concession of an important prin-
Stan s. ciple. (blear, hear.) Such was the reception of the go-
Mr. LABOUCUERE said the most recent information vernment statement on that side of the house. As for its
they had received was from Sir 11. llulwer, in a despatch reception among the agricultural community out of the
dated the 14th of February. He stated that there existed house it would certainly be difficult to select any terms of
a faulty and indeed a fraudulent musk of assessing the du- panegyric that were lavished upon it—(laughter)—that
tics, 111111 that advantage had been taken of this state of even the right hon. gentleman himself could not have anti-
things; and that a bill hail been brought into congress to cipated ; but he might defy even the researches of the Trea-
remedy the evils complained of, but it bad not passed into sury to bring forward any expressions of importance that
a law. condemned it. Such being the condition of public business,
Lord J. MANNERS said perhaps the right hon. gentle- considerable eventsoceurred. There arose a ministerial crisis ;
man would be good enough should a despatch be received public businesn was arrested, and suspended for about six
to communicate it to the house. weeks. Ile threw a veil over that chaotic period, which
Mr. LABOCCHERE said he would advise the noble had really nothing to do with the circumstances to which
lord when to put a question on the subject. he was calling attention ; but, after that interval of agi-
ADMISSION TO ST. PAUL'S. tation and anarchy, the house having recovered its usual
Sir G. GREY said he wished to correct a mistake he sobriety of tone was naturally very anxious to receive
made last night in answer to a question from the hon. mem- the financial statement of the minister. When he
her for Montrose. Ile stated that an arrangement had been made it the right hon. gentleman, after re-adjusting
his scheme for the repeal of the window tax, which required
made that would have the effect of opening the area of St.
Paul's to the public free of charge, and that was correct. a greater fund than had been originally, at his command,
found those re-mamma in a quarter which was unexpected
d,
But he went on to say that the dean and chapter had by
anticipation taken off the charge. lie had since had and in a way which was not anticipa Ile wante aut
200,000/. more than his original planted. hail demanded ; a bond
a communication from the dean, who said he was mistaken
what did he do ? Ile took up his pen, scratched out the
in that, and that a short time was necessary to make the
two remedial measures which had been introduced
arrangement to take off the charge. Ile believed, however
that the charge would be abolished by the Ist of May. 'to mitigate the distresses and assist the difficul-
ss
ties of the suffering land of England—(checra)—
PATENT LAWS.
Mr. CARDWELL asked the President of the Board of and he stated as a reason that the propositions had been
received in so ungracious a manner that he would show' his
Trade, whether he intended to bring in any measure to sense of dignity by withdrawing them. (" Hear," and
amend the Patent Laws? laughter.) Ile (Mr. Disraeli) had always thought that
Mr. LABOUCHERE replied that that very day, Lord ministerial propositions in that house were_ the result of
Granville would move the second reading of 11 bill on the goreencounsel,,of ~,,Ltun• deliberations, of cabinet con-
measure in the other house. ference and communication, that they were suggi•ste•d
HEALTH OF TOWNS BILL—TOWN OF by a sense of public duty, a large and unimpassioned survey
HASTINGS. of public eircumatances—(hear, hear)—that they were
Mr. FREWEN said he wished to put a question to the not brought forward in levity, merely to gain party support
noble lord, the Chief Commissioner of Woods and Forests. —(hear, hear); nor, on the other hand, were they to be
The hon. member for Misting., his colleague, and withdrawn from a feeling of parliamentary or personal
himself, had attended night after night for the purpose of annoyance, and in a tone of flippant caprice. (Hear, hear.)
urging, in compliance with the wishes of the inhabitants, The fart, whatever might have been the motive, remained;
that the present bill should be extended to that town ; but the fact that the relief, which had been proposed by the
it hail invariably happened that the consideration of the government as the conaequence of mature emoted, and from
measure had been postponed. He wished, therefore, to ask the sense of public duty, hail been withdrawn on the plea
the noble lord the Commissioner of Woods and Forests of ungraciousness in those who were to receive it, and had
whether he meant to go into committee on the bill at all ; been extended, in addition to the great relief already pro-
and if so, whether he intended to go into committee before posed and proffered, to another interest who had particularly
Easter ? distinguished themselves by the almost indecorous manner
Lord SEYMOUR said the bill applied to a great many in which they had greeted the financial statement of the
other towns, and, as some of the memben for those towns minister. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman had
appeared to entertain doubts as to whether it should be ex- no right to expect gratitude from the agricultural interest.
tended to them, be had postponed the measure in order to lie had done very little for them ; and, if that little was
afford them time to consult their respective constituencies. received without any display of peculiar gratitude, he could
(Hear, hear.) With regard to Hastings, several depute- scarcely have been astonished; but, aeconling to his own
Mont had waited upon him, some in favour of' the bill's principles, he had a right to expect gratitude from his
being applied to their town, and some against it; and, as friends, for whom he had attempted to do a great deal.
he could not make out which was right, he had omitted it They who had spurned him had been treated iu the reeon-
for the present from the bill, in order that they might come struction of his budget with additional favour ; while they
to some decision amongst themselves. (Hear, hear.) who had received with silence and respect his suggestions
ADJOURNMENT OF TILE 110CSE. bad to submit, not merely to relinquishment of that which
It was then resolved that the house at its rising should was proposed for their relief, but absolutely to the infliction
adjourn till Monday next. of a lecture--(" hear, hear," and laughter)—in which their
OATH OF ABJURATION (JEWS) BILL. I claims and position were depreciated, and it was announced
Mr. AOLIOls.:BY took it for granted that the second that, if they had any claims, they hail forfeited them b
reading of this important bill could not come on to-day; their disrespectful conduct towards the government. (Hear)
and as the measure affected the privileges of one of the Ile would ask those who differed from him on the principles
members of the house, he asked if the noble lord (Lord of our commercial code whether, as men of sense and ho-
John Russell) could fix any time when they might calcu- nour, they could justify a course so contradictory and in-
late with tolerable certainty that the sewn 1i reang would consistent ? Was it it course tending to establish confidence
take place ? in ministers ? (Hear, hear.) Was it not, on the contrary,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that Thursday, the Ist of May, one that unnecessarily offended the feelings of that portion
had been fixed on, and he hoped he should be able to take of the community now in distress, and unnecessarily implied
the second reading on that night. (Hear, hear.) that their claims were not viewed in that home: in titat spirit
THE CAPE OF GOOD HOPE. of justice which ought to regulate the survey and determi-
Mr. HUME expressed a hope that the papers relating to nation of the claims of all classes and interests ? Much of
the affairs of this colony would be laid upon the table at this might have been the consequence of hasty and Meow&
an early period, as it was impossible for the house to discuss Berate conduct ; but was it conduct on the part of a govern-
the subject properly without them. meat which any grave and well-considered mind could int-
ST. ALBANS ELECTION. partially approve ? (Hear, hear.) Had anything occurred
The order of the day for the consideration of the minutes in the condition of owners and occupiers of land since
of the committee having been read, parliament met which authorised on the part of go-
lds.. AGLIONBY moved that Henry Edwards be di- yerament or the house any difference of opinion as
charged from the custody of the Serjeant-at-Arms without to that condition ? No one would pretend that.
payment of fees. Look at the main features of the ease. They had a diminu-
After a few words from the ATTOKNEV-GENZILAL and tion of rent, which might be taken on an average at pro-
Mr. G. DAN HES, badly ten per cent. (" More, more.") Ile was told it was
Sir F. THESIGER stated that Edwards had been nom- more. He wished to understate the case, and would say
omitted, not by the chairman of the committee, but by the ten per cent. He did not know whether it was more now,
warrant of the Speaker, issued upon the resolution of the but it soon would be more. (Hear, hear.) Taking the
house, and that he was, therefore, properly in custody. rental of the United Kingdom at a very moderate cemputa-
Mr. WALI'OLE drew attention to the fact that the tion beneath that which was accepted by eminent statists—
paisoner had denied the charges. If they really were un- at 60 millions, they had there a loss to one class of six nail-
founded, he ought not to have been in custody a single lions a year. Whether that class had suffered a loss of six
hour. He (Mr. Walpole) very much regretted that his or of twelve millions a year, he did not mean to say that
hon. and learned friend (the Attonicy-General) had not that was the slightest ground for their coming to parlia-
moved as an amendment that Mr. Edwards be called to the meat for relief. That was not the point he was
tar et the house, and asked whether the charges upon going to put before the house. But supposing, which would
mil* be had been committed were true or not Dir. Ed- undoubtedly be the ease, that they hada contiuml diminution
mob had declared in his petition that they were totally of rents. He must remind the house that at a certain point
him and untrue ; and it was most improper for a man to the diminution of rent ceased to be a mere loss to the pro-
be detained in custody without being allowed an oppor- prietor of the land, and that when the diminution reached a
Usti, et defending himself. He begged therefore to move certain point—say 2.3 per cent—by an inexorable law of
the amendment to which he had alluded. economics, certain lands were thrown out of cultivation;
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL seconded it. He should for the cold clay and the thin uplands must go out of cultiva-
blimelf have given notice of the motion if he had not un- hen before any diminution of rent occurred on the richer
illmitood that the hon. member fur Cockermouth intended soils, after probably a diminution of 24 per cent. (Hear.)
da =we a similar resolution. (Hear, bear.) Well, to come to another class. He would take a
After a few WOrti from Mr. AOLIONIiti and the SOLICITOII- moderate estimate of the amount of capital invested in the
OMIIIIIAL, the former said he had had no communication soil by the farmers of the United Kingdom belbre the
edllkitheards himself, but lie had just seen the gentleman change in the law which occasioned the diminution of rents.
mite bed satrusted the petition to him, and whom he there- In doing so he would take it at the amount at which it
ILO osommied had some right to act for the prisoner. The had frequently been taken by eminent authorities.
=stied ositiman was entirely in accordance with (Hear, hear.) Ile, therefore, would take the amount
, simasty, that it would be better for Edwards to re- of capital invested in the soil of the United Kingdom,
asda In custody till Monday. (Loud laughter.) That was at 300,000,0001. sterling at the time of the repeal of the
lib deliberate opinion, and he would more that the matter corn laws, one-third of which had since been lost. He
be adjourned till then did not say that on that account they were entitled to come
Agreed to. to that house to obtain relief. But yet the fact was out&
THE HOUSE TAX. cient evidence that that class was in a deep state of distress
In reply to questions from Mr. Bastaza, and difficulty. He thought he had established this posi-
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that ton, that if her Majesty's ministers were in the
the new house tax would be assessed on the value of the happy position of having a surplus revenue, if, as ac-
house &mewed, which value they must ascertain in the best cording to their own admission, there was only one, how-
way they could. Probably the rating to the property tax ever important, class in the country suffering great distress
would be the best criterion as to the value, except in some at the present moment, and that all the other classes were
cases which might be provided for. enjoying a state of comparative prosperity ; it surely be-
AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. came the ministers of the crown to consider whether, if they
On the motion that the Speaker should leave the chair had resolved upon the distribution of that surplus by the
for the house to go mate committee un the Assessed Taxes remission of certain matters of taxation, it was net their
Act, duty, as it was in their power, to adopt such means as
, Mr. DISRAELI role, awl viewpresenting the petition would mitigate that distress. (Hear, hear.) Now he had
above noticed, said he desalt praasa to move the amend- to consider whether it was in the power of ministers to pro-
meat, of which he led Ten notice, namely :—" That, in pose, in the construction of their budget, such measures as
any relief to be pinked the remission or adjustment of would have that tendency. (Hear, hear.) Ile had,
asitaxation, due regard be paid to the distressed condi- he admitted, considerable advantages, which seldom
has of the owners sad escapers of land in the United fell to a member speaking on the opposition side, in arguing
ILiagdsm." He premised that the manner in which the this question. Her Majesty's ministers could not call upon
govenuarnt, and. is a certain degree, that holm, had him to substantiate the fact of existing distress, easy though
mmeirlered the polities et the agricultural interest since the task were; they themselves had given most authon-
tie arameneement of this session, appeared so inossistent, Titmice evidence in the case. (Hear, hear.) After pro-
ud laissesed as mai (unintentionally) by a spirit of in- found deliberation and mature counsel, after lengthened
*ties, that it led slaw the confidence of a large portion and well-matured research, her Majesty's ministers court-
of bar Majesty'sßOOM, ; and, before the adroramer, he wiled her Majesty to make that declaration of existing dis-
ease* this attempt to errs a dispraises*, ameideration tress amongst the landed occupiers to the country—(hear,
el • moolatioa dieta=issprintet jars% sad eon- hear)—and therefore it was hardly necessary for him (Mr.
tend to a spirit of pear the &Mee ef Disraeli) to advert to statistical consequences, though,
the 011111111 sad occupies, of had had bra with the kind ;permission of the house, he would
remarreed la the royal spesdkarl it maearerally briefly
_address himself to that topic. (Hear, hear.)
that the reempitiem midi be hawed by roe 'Act; He had another great advantage in this case.
rimer, the hmemadider baddeelarile mei rod& to pro- lie (Mr. Disraeli) might have been asked under ordinary
rwery remedy. • reera rem Oen made, upon the circumstances—even if ministers admitted the distress, r
to MMs ita eddrea trie, etre mita ft they did on the first night of the session—he might have
was the &di et the dereameat le heseder ramedisi nat. been asked by ministers, " What can we do ?" (Hear,
RIM. The malt et thet =Mem Mirk the pornemer le bear.) But he could hardly be asked that question now,
its rah% emi wee • Aetna mmeedea etre MM. because ministers had proposed within the session men
bore imi is edleare ie_thee Aires the et ewes of a remedial nature, with a view to countervail the
the mob Wheemild elermer, whir or. evil. (Hear, hear.) They had, after due consideration,
hind tem meperieme be sale,eftt• a stela extent, proposed measures to the house, the efficiency or inefil-
the direr lot ihe emir sad ~ses et LAIL He said army of which might be a question of debate, and which
bee es to re mere a replied Mist; be eati I might afford, on fitting occasion, opportunity for future
=lte Terra jip Muse rig, ea* the devereart MA controversy and discussion— ear, hear)—but the great
dermei Orr hmarty te say mown mo mfr. feet remained that, having deliberated on the suffenngs
vim drialisomp sat ia quadri the bore of the owners and ;occupiers of land, her Majesty's

under the novel circumstances in which hasty and precipi-
tate legislation had placed him. (Hear.) They might
have commenced a course of legislation the tendency of
which would be to put an end to that war of classes and
that fatal controversy raging between the rival industries
of this country. (Hear, hear.) They might have laid the
foundation of a great system of remedial legislation which
would have done much to bring buck the good feeling of
the community ; and they would have found all men of
considerate minds and temperate dispositions rallying
round them in such an effort. (hear, hear.) And though
they might not all acknowledge that the measure, was equal
to the occasion, they would at least recognise the wish on
the part of her Majesty's ministers to do justice to an im-
portant interest, which all men acknowledged had been
very differently dealt with. (Cheers.) It was not his
(.lr. Disraeli's) intention to make such a proposition to the
house, or even to confess to the house that by a resolution
he had any desire to recommend it. However, he should
have been happy to support her Majesty's ministers had
they brought forward such a proposition. But the main
reason that prevented him from making such a proposi-
tion as would be an alternative to the repeal of
. .

have met the difficulty by proposing that the profits of the i gee:!leman thought and said in that house. (Hear, hear.)
farmer should be ascertained in the sante way that the If the hon. gentleman had not struck out of hit amendment
profits of other traders were ascertained. (Hear, hear.) the words "in the first instance" he could have understood
lie should be glad if ministers made that proposition, be- his proposition, but as it stood at present it amounted to a
crude the consequence would be a public demonstration of truism. Ile understood that the loin. gentleman meant to
the fact, in reference to which many had been previously substitute sortie proposition instead of the remission of the
incredulous, that no firmer in England Was making any window tax, but the hon. gentleman's courage failed him.
profit at all. (Heer.) The proper way to have met that Ile could not help suspecting that at bottom his real in-
state of things would be, as he before said, by roams being tension was to oppose the budget, which had extorted the ap-
taken to ascertain the profits realised by the farmers, as in probation of some of his own friends, and to reverse a commer-
the case of all other traders. (Hear, bear.) But because eial policy under which taxation hail been remitted, the re-
ministers had not done so, his hon. and gallant friend venue had inereaseiLand trade and prosperity had flourished,
would come forward and put it to the justice of the house . The hon. gentleman bad not said whether he would
to say if, in case the farmers were not permitted to prove support the propstsition of the government with re-
they were not realising any profit whatever, as a matter of spina to the remission of the timber and cadre duties.
common justice they should not be relieved from the pre- If the hon. gentlemen entertained the opinionof the right hon.
Wem:ram arrangement now anticipated. (Hear, hear.) gentleman the member for Stamford, that not more than
hatever might have been the opinion of the house as to 1,500,000/. should be remitted, it was clear that hi, had not
the policy or =policy of those laws regarding the entrance a penny to apply to the relief of agriculturists; and though
of foreign agricultural produce, which had been abro- the relief of agricultural distress was an important ques-
gated by that house, they should always remember ; tion, it ought not to he allowed to interfere with the deci-
this—that the farmers were not the framers oh' those don on a scheme on which the house was agreed. Ile must
laws, although they were now unfortunately core- remind him. gentlemen connected with Ireland that the
polled to be their victims. (Protectionist cheers.) remission of the timber duties would in no small degree
Remember the position in which by your policy, be it right . benefit the agriculturists of that country. There was very
or wrong, he it politic or impolitic, you placed that import- 'little timber grown in Ireland, and a great deal of foreign
ant body of the community. The times which brought to timber imported ; and it would he a great advantage to the
them adversity also brought occasion to show the nation Irish people to obtain timber fur farm buildings at as cheap
of which they formed an important portion that they pus- a rate as possible. Let the 1101180 remember that
timed great qualities. (Ilear, hear.) Reviled and tea- the simple question to be derided was that of
duced as they were during a too heated controversy, their the substitution of a house tax for the existing income tax;
great enterprise and skill never flagged, their spirit was and let them also bear in mind that if they voted for the
never exhausted, and their perseverance was never proposal of the hon. gentleman, the country would not get
butted. lie wanted that the house, before it adjourned, the remission of the window tax. If hon. gentlemen oppo-
before its mernhers went back to their constituencies, site had any practical intentions, they ought dearly to an-
should enable them to say and bear an wistirance nounce them. (Hear, hear.) It was only fair to the
to the farmers of England, that here at least they would house and to the country that they should know what thine
find sympathy and relief. (Hear, hear.) Ile wanted the hon. gentlemen proposed to do. lie hoped that, now that
house to consider their ease in a spirit of fairness, and for the budgetwas Curly before them, thehouse would prononnee
this purpose he appealed with as much coutidence to an "pinion upon it. Ile had the most sanguine expectations
gentlemen opposite as to gentlemen on his own that they would support the immoral. of his right hon.
side. lie appealed to them to consider all that friend—proposals which were, he believed, satisfactory to
had occurred during the present session—during the the country, and which would abed considerable reli•d: to
Inst eight weeks—with regard to that class, and if the agricultural clam as well as every other class of the
• they could not reconcile its inconsistencies to their own community. (Cheers.)
consciences, that they would be fair and manly, and can- Mr. GLADSTONE stood in the unfortunate predicament
did, and he would even say kind, enough to reconsider the of being not thoroughly satisfied with either of the plans
!course tiny had pursued. (Hear, hear.) Ito would give before the house. Vt'ithout approving entirely either of
her Majesty's government all the advantages of the recol- the miniskerial project or that of Mr. Disraeli, he felt
Ilection of the difficulties and distractions which the circum- obliged to elect between them upon a balance of ad-
stances had necessarily occasioned. He should be willing vantages. Viewed in connexion with contemporary in-
to forget the past if her Majesty's government would only cidents, he looked upon the resolution before them as
come forward 110 W and attempt to fulfil the proposal which haying some relationship with protection, whose restore-
' they announced at the commencement of the session. tion the party stood pledged to attempt. If honourable
(Hear, hear.) Ile did not know what the gentlemen eon- gentlemen around him entertained the opinion that the
meted with land felt on this subject, but he knew that withdrawal of protection had been the infliction of jujus-
when they had left their friends and constituents at the tier on a great portion of the community, and that in the
commeurement of the year to enter that house they left restoration of protection there would lie no injustice, ho
them, in their opinion and in ours, injured men ; but, after could not complain of their intention fairly to bring that
what had occurred, it would indeed be painful to go back question to issue ; on the contrary, he soil by all means
and to say, injured you were whin left you but now you het it be brought to issue, and let the opinion of the emit-
have been insulted. (Cheers.) But he appealed w itb as try be fully and finally pronounced. (Cheers.) But so long
much confidence to gentlemen opposite as to hisown side. lie as that question stood in its present position, lie must really
felt confident they would not presume that, either directly or decline to entertain the question of the Mho iation of local
indirectly, openly, or covertly, he attempted, by the pro- burdens on the grounds on which it wets discussed last year.
position of moderate justice which he now made, to reverse (ileac.) lie did think there was something in the fart that
their new commercial policy. Would the government repro- the burdens on land and real property hail been latent' to
pose the remedial measures which they had introduced to attune extent in consideration of the existence of protection;
the house? Would that he a reversal of the commercial sys- but if hon. gentlemen were going to restore protection let
tern? But, above all, he hoped that the spirit of the great them not talk of the, alleviation of local burdens too.
departed would not lie evoked on this occasion, to stand be• (Cheers.) Now his principal objections to this budget of
tweets the abundant treasury and the suffering farmers of the government were thesis The 'right hon. gentleman the
the United Kingdom. (Hear, hear.) lie felt confident of Chancellor of the Exchequer, in his speech on Friday last,
the result, because the resolution he was about to place in spoke of the immense benefit which bad accrued to the
the chairman's hand was conceived in a spirit of justice, and country from reduction of taxes which pressed upon indus-
because he was sure that nothing which had occurred— try, and which had a great tendency and great power
no sentiment of delicacy or false shame—would prevent her when reduced to reproduce themselves. Nothing. in his
Majesty's government from re-considering their budget. opinion, could be more triumphant than the right hon.
(" Hear," and laughter.) Ile need not remind the house gentleman's demonstration of the benefit of those redue-
that they had not merely a three-thld precedent, but preec- time, to the country—(hear, bear)—and if he found fault
dents infinitely more multiplied, Mr a re-consideration of a with the right hon. gentleman's budget, his eomplaint was
budget by her Majesty's ministers. (Hear, hear.) He was that a principle so sound and efficacious, which in practice
confident that the great body of the community, whatever had proved so beneficial, was now applied by him on a scale
trade or calling they pursued., would feel the course he so narrow. (Dear, hear.) In 15th, although the great oh-
now called upon the house to adopt to he one of justice, jest of the income tax was to supply a deficiency of
equity, end conciliation. (blean) Because the resolution 2,400,000 L, there was a reduction of taxes upon industry to
did nut interfere with the remission of a tax which was the extent of 1,500,0004 In 1545, when the income tax
mainly devised for the beuetit of the towns, he appmled to WAS renewed. on the proposal of Sir Robert Peel, the re-
the representatives of the towns to assist the struggling mission of taxes amounted to about 3,500,0001. plc parsed
farmers It was because hem believed that the minds of over ISIS, because the renewal of the tax Own took
those who represented the trailing community wire place under peculiar anti exceptional circumstances. But
open to a sense of justice, of feeling and sym- now that, in 1851, they were again invited to renew the in-
uthy for the farmers, and because their own claims rime tax, the reductions proposed of the same character as
had been so liberally recognised by her Majesty's govern- those which lie had mentioned amounted only to from
mint —a liberality which he did not objeetto—an advantage -100,000/. to 100,0004 ; he reWrred, of course, to the proposed
he did not grudge them—that he hoped they would support remissions of duty on timber and coffee. Well, then, this
him in this resolution, and at least, by sustaining his pro- was one of his objections to the budget of the government,
position they would terminate that sense of injustice and that it applied on so very narrow a scale principles wheel'
soften the justly wounded sentiment of honest pride which were sound in themselves, beneficial to the country, and
he knew ut present anituated the feelings of the British the application of which ought to be the basis of our whole
farmers. (Cheers.) system of finance. (Hear, hear.) llis other objection, he
Ihe rem ution haying been put, must confess, was Our. He did not object to the repeal of
Mr. LABOCCHERE said the motion of the honourable the window tax ; for that tax appeared to hint had in kind.
gentleman woe, that in any relief to be granted by the re- (blear, hear.) The window tax Wal a 11011 W, tax levied in
unision of taxation, due regard should be hail to the air- respect to windows. A house tax levied in respect to win-
tressed condition of the owuers and occupiers of land. Why, down was, in his minion, a very bad tax ; but a house tax
that was so self-evident a proposition, that it might levied in respect tie value was a good tees, and war of vital
be considered as a truism. (Hear, hear.) That importance to the morose. They could not exclude from
it was the duty of the house and government to consider their view the probability, nay. the certainty, that matins
the landed interest alt) well as other interests in such a gender might arise, and wen likely to arise, when for pur-
ease, he was prepared to admit; and before he sat down he 'sows they would require to draw everything that the
hoped he would be able to prove that her Majesty's govern- could from the fountain of a bemuse tax. (Rear, hear.
mein in the propositions they laid betine the house, whilst They had got au Mimic tax, and it was proposed that it
they had not exclusively considered the agricultural into- should be renewed for three years. But would an income
rest, which it would not be fair or right to do, had not tax beapermanent part of our finance or would it not? (thew,
neglected to consider the relief that might be fairly given hear.) lie thought that there was a general opinion in that
to so important and, at pressaft, lie Was ready to admit, SO house that the income tax must either undergo an adjust-
depressed an interest. (Hear, hear.) lie begged to remind went, in its various schedules, to the conditions of the va-
the house that the proposition of the hon. gentleman was rious classes iif the community, or else some day or other,
not a substantive and distinct proposition, but an amend- and probably at no distant day, it must fall. (Hear.) Wen,
hon. friend ''"^ Chancellor -atter ? Two of the greatest

ment on the motion of his right amid the s
of the Exchequer for the substitution of a house tax for the
window duties. (Bear, hear.) lie was tut Illy unable to
understand the meaning of the hon. gentleman in bringing
forward this amendment, and although he had listened with
great attention to the speech of the hon. gentleman he
could find no clue in it whereby to solve the enigma. The
hou. gentleman began by saying that the government had
announced in the speech from the throne the existence of
agricultural distress, and that having so done, they ought
to propose a remedy adequate to meet that distn:ss. But
the hon. gentleman uud the house would recollect
that her Majesty not only acknowledged and bewailed
that partial distress, but indicated the quarter from
which relief must come ; for it was stated that the partial
agricultural distress which prevailed could not continue long,
if the other general interests of the country were in a pros-
perous condition. (Bear, hear.) But the hon. gentleman
said that the budget was framed with a view to popularity
in the towns, and that no relief was afforded to agricultural
distress. Now, if any gentleman fairly and carefully consi-
dered the proposition of her Majesty's government, lie
must acknowledge that the landed interest, and especially
-- would in for more real relief from

was that adjustment an easy
men that had ever handled the iIIIZMCCS of this country, Mr.
Pitt and Sir Robert Peel, both directed their ' Is defini-
tively to that object, and both became deeply convinced of
the impossibility of attaining it. Those gnat men might be
right or they might be wrong, he was not now
going to enter into that question ; but if bon. members
were generally agmed in the opinion that the income tux
must either be adjusted, or must fall, then they certainly
ought not to look upon the .i,.5011,i)00/. derived front that
tax as a permanent portion of the revenue. But whenever
that amount was withdrawn, how, he wanted to know, was
the void to be filled. (Rear, hear.) He did not think any
hon. gentleman, any practical num at least, seas sanguine
enough to believe that they could bear the withdrawal of
that immense revenue, and proceed with reductions on the
elastic portions of the taxes, unless they practically
kept in view the possibility of obtaining, when re-
quires', a considerable sum from the house tax.
'Rs objection turned entirely on the proposal to exempt
from the tax houses under 201. a year. Ile would place
himself in altogether a false position by proposing in com-
mittee that the basis of the tax should be widened. It was
fur the ----- it to ask for a tax which they considered

the window tax was that he should act inconsistently with the tenant farmers ..._..id come .- . --- ... -.... government to mix wen .—..___ . __, ____
all he had ever said in that house. He should act incon• that proposition than' from the small remission of income tax necessary, and it would he a bad principle to farce on them
sistently with his profound and sincere convictions if he proposed by the right hon. gentleman the member for the aeceptimee of a tax which they had not proposed.
took a step which would exactly do that, which he was Stamford, or from the proposal of the hon. gentleman. (Hear, hear.) He saw the greatest difficulty in giving to
always endeavouring to avoid as well as deprecate, namely, (Hear, hear.) They hail a sum to be disposed of, of about the house tax the extension which it seemed to himself to
introducing into that house a question as between town 1,500,000/. ; and the real and practical question was, in require, under the circumstances in which the house had
and country. (Hear, hear.) The object of his humble what way could this sum be applied so as to give most been placed by the government. Still the question WAS a
efforts, iu the reduction of taxation, was to terminate, or at relief ? Now he was prepared to prove, and he chal- most important one. Thu right hon. gentleman had told
least to soften down that feeling, to put au end to that lenged contradiction, that the lauded interest and them there were 3,500,000 houses, of which number he pro-
' rivalry between the great industries of the country ; be- the tenant farmer would gain more by. a remiss- posed to tax only 400,000, leasing 3,100,000 un-
cause it had been already productive of injury to the com- sion of the window duty than by a remission of a touched; and in the course of his able and luminous
munity, and because it was rife with peril to the institu- portion of the income tax. (Hear, hear.) The relief speech he said, on the authority of Mr. Mill, that
tions of the country if continued. (Hear, hear.) Therefore, afforded by the remission of the window duties would be the tax would be a tax on real proerty. The right lion.
he never would himself bring forward a proposition spread over all classes, and that was a portion of its mbar gentleman proposed to substitute a house-tax for a window-
having for its object the relief of one class at the expense of tapes. But he thought that the country gentlemen who in- biz ; but unfortunately his house-tax would only produce
the other. (Hear.) Now, dealing with :the proposition habited houses with a large number of windows, and of two-fifths of what was produced by the window-tax, and
lowhich he had referred, as far as Ireland was concerned, the small annual value, would gain more by the substitution of be placed them in such a position, that they would never
remission of taxation to the amount of 400,0001. would be a a house tax for the window duty. than by a small remission be able to raise the sum obtained, and thus is considerable
great relief to the landed interest of Ireland, thatsiortion of taxation. His right hon. friend the Chancellor of the source of revenue would be to a great extent impoverished!;
of their agricultural community which was most suffering ; Exchequer made n statement on this point which deserved for he must assume that if the house 01190 exempted houses
for. if in England, they had distress, and, in Scotland ilis- to be repeated. His right hon. friend told the house that under 20!., that exemption would never be removed. Now,
may, in Ireland they had desolation. (Loud cries of "hear, the window tax, which was now 2,0101. on 42 houses in six in what position had the hon. member for Buckinghamshire
hear.") As regarded Ireland, therefore, the benefit would different counties of England, would be only 567/. under placed himself? Ile was afraid both his objections applied
be most considerable. (Hear, hear.) But, let them view the commuted tax, making a difference of 1,1731. on 42 fully‘to the budget which the hon. gentleman had proposed.
the matter as regarded England, and they would find the houses. (Hear, bear.) Let him compare this amount The LID, member, if he (Mr. Gladstone) understood him
benefit to be scarcely less. And then he could not help of relief with the relief that would be given rightly, accepted the proposition of the government with
saying that he was amused by the retort of hon. gentlemen, by the remission of the tax for lunatics as proposed by the respect to the window tax, at least he did nut hear him oh-
when, in his endeavours to mitigate taxation of every do- bon. gentleman. He hoped he was addressing hon. gentle- ject t i it, and his objection to the plan of the government
Iscription, he was attacked as being the advocate merely of men who were possessed of 10,0001. a year. (" Hear" and in respect to the form given to the house tax told equally
landed interests, though it was evident that he, as well as laughter.) Now, upon an income of 10,000!. a year the re- against the plan of the hon. member for Bucks. But,
the party with which he had the honour to act, were fight- duction of the tax for lunatic asylums would be only 21!. then, the other objection which he had ventured to urge
hag the battles of other interests as well as their own. (Pro- (Mar.) Let any country gentleman of 10,0001. a year corn- namely, the very narrow and stinted application of the
I tectioniats cries of " Hear, beer.") There was a fourth pare the paltry benefit he would derive from the proposi- great principle of reducing duties on articles of general con-
Imeasure, measure, not so extensive, but which would be moat tion of the hon. gentleman and the proposition of the go- sumption and on the raw materials of industry, that principle
favourably received by the farmers or the tinted King- vernment, and he was sure he could not hesitate for a mo- which he considered vital to the finances and to the well-
dam—namely, were they to detach from the miscella- meat as to which would give the most real and substantial being of the country, and which had found only a limited
mous expensesthe relief of the poor, independent of the local relief. (Hear, hear.) Now, with respect to the tenant application in the budget of the government, was, unfor-
administration, were they to detach the expenses incurred farmers, let them' see which proposition would affiird the tunately, totally cancelled and erased in the budget of the
for establishment charges irrespective of others). (Hear, most benefit to that important class. He maintained that hon. gentleman. (Cheers.) It was certainly an ominous
hear.) A very.considerable amount would be thus formed. the proposition of the government would afford them far and significant fact, that in the whole of his speech they did
The fixed Wanes in the United Kingdom amounted to greater relief, and he challenged comparison in that respect not hear pronounced the two words " coffee " and
between 600,0001. and 600,0001. ; and in some cases there with the proposition of the right honourable gentleman " timber." (Hear, hear.) Ile had understood the hon.
were particular modes of payment, such as by poundage in (Mr. Herries) or the hon. gentleman. Let it be recollected gentleman to say that the reduction of 1,150,0001. which
the amount of rates levied, (Hear, hear.) lie thought that the income tax did not apply to any tenant fanner the government wished to make by the substitution of a
they. might safely take the salaries paid to officers for ad- who rented a farm under 300/. a year. (Hear, hear.) house tax for the window tax, hr,did not propose to disturb,
ministration of the poor laws in Great Britain at 550,0001., The window tax would only begin where the rent was 200/. though, if he were himself proposing a budget, he would
and the analagons expenses in Ireland at 1140,0001., or in a year, so that by the proposition of the hon. gentleman proceed on a different principle. That item of re-
the whole 700,0001. or 710,000!. Now, that would be a re- I that large end numerous class of persons who rented farms duction having been assented to, he understood the
lief complete in itself, and from its particular character lat a rental between 2001. and 3001. a year, would not at all hon. gentleman to ppipose the addition of an item of
I calculated to obtain great favour in the eyes of the !be affected by the remission of the income tax, whereas they 660,0001. for a portion of the poor-law establishment in
I occupiers of the soil. (Hear, bear.) That was a measure ! would be rehered by the remission of the window duty. England, coming under the head of salaries, and a similar
which well deserved the consideration of ministers. I (Hear, hear.) He would not disease the advantage of the charge of 100,0001. for Ireland, making together 710,0001.
He had then , placed before the house four measures,' proposition of the government to the inhabitants of towns, These would make a total of 1,860,0001. Such was what ho
malmsey practical, and just to the farmers, which I because it was universally admitted. He would only re- understood to be the budget of the hon. gentleman.
it met have been in thewer of the government mark on the great and beneficial effect of the proposition on An HON. MEMBER—The lunatics.
W Mpo Mee forward. (Cries of " Hear, bear.") I the moral and sanitary condition of the lower classes. The Mr. GLADSTONE believed there was no room for the
The did acknowledge the distress of the art-' hon. gentleman bad made three or four propositions to the lunatics. (Laughter.) What he wished to be observed was
4111/001/Iff liar be the speech of the sovereign on the open-1 house,but he (Mr. Labouchere) did not understand him to say that the principle of the reduction of duties on articles of
kg el pediment. (Hear, hear.) The government intro- that he did not propose them with a view to substitute any consumption, and on the raw materials of industry, disap•
dead a budget to that house, including one of those meats lone of them for the proposition of the government, but peered entirely from the budget of the hon. member
wires. The government withdrew that budget, end then that he merely threw them out for future consideration. for Bucks. (Hear, hear.) Now he must confess
brought forward another, omitting the measure introduced The hon. gentleman had not made any allusion to the pro- that he, for one, could not consent to vote the
in the previous one, notwithstanding their admission of the position for the reduction on timber or coffee. The peeposi- renewal of the income tax on any such basis as
I distress of the agricultural classes, and notwithstanding tion of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Herries) had been that. (Hear, hear.) In his opinion the satisfaction with
their intention to apply the surplus of the year to the relief rejected by the house, and now the hon. gentleman came which the house should accede to the renewal of the income
of classes which, compared with the agricultural, were forward with a proposition so vague and ambiguous that it tax ought to vary Been:sling to the scale on which the great
' wealthy and prosperous. (Protectionist cheers.) It was was difficult to say what it meant. He could not but think principle which he had mentioned was applied, and his
'an aggregate of anomalies ; and from the beginning of the hon. gentleman meant something by this proposition, great complaint against the government was that they
I the session to the present the conduct of the administer and he was therefore afraid that he kept something in the applied it on a scale which was so narrow. Making that
Lion hut never been equalled in the annals of parliament background which he did not state to the house. (Hear.) complaint against the government, however, it was impoe-
(Renewed protectionist cheers.) The farmers complained It was, therefore, that he viewed the proposition of Bible for him not to prefer their plan to that of the hon.
that they were called upon to pay taxes out of mats the hon. gentleman es dangerous, and that he called on the member for Bucks. If the plan of the hon. gentleman
' that did not accrue. His hon. and t friend the I house to reject it. (Hear, hew-) The hen. gentlemen received the sanction of the house, they would for the first
r
member for Lincoln (Colonel Sibthorp propftedan I
that a deprecated, as he always did, any discusiden of the policy timo vote a renewal of the income tax, without obtaining,
schedule of those taxes should be famed. He (Mr.. ofof the late government; yet he (Mr. Labouchere') could not ;as e compensation for that renewal, one single jot or tittle
Disraeli) should have thought that the government would forbear thinking that that was at the bottom of all the hon. of that kind of remiasion of taxation which had been proval,