The Express.
London, England, 1849-04-17 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL 1,7;-,11/01.

and if it ma yeromored in, the malt also must imi the sass.
In the uses of British Onions, complaints were made the
the despatch eta British mildest was held I. be sufficient
not only to myeloid* ill law in the colooy, but even to pre-
vent any new law from being enacted. It might be
mid on both side" et the house that what had
essulal ia North America made It most impolitic
to hewed • node. like that under oonsidwation
Es that it wee indifference in this conarry to the
side et the scene sad the SWIM of diseusslos I,W-h had
W Mal war Wield dilloades, whether la Narth Amoeba
or elntere. Haw seed astiest be exposed to exist
easier a masa she slimed le Oman Oa man ermage-
meat et is as slam, while a mrighbeedeg co-
lon —that et Prises Edward's lelead—wes goversed
alpaca?h
a , or what was and a Willy
Mr. Inaba essmasted is hie own "a" " Um than 10
Mann ethos, whilst Ile. Pope, ..hie sow, is-law, held 8;
sash* la phieslitim divideabotwees two pawns. If hie
maxim WON HM that self-gOreesassat wee a WNW he
whisk • pimple wad ad well pay too high • rho, Ms add
set ma'am why that blear g was denied to the wades.
Waal ale hat entertain the hope that the nosh of all the
eadesaare sew sang to notify minis); mimeos ass
wesM aid in giving the 'shales • representative neon.
lath WI Mr Pitre wish, sad sash had been the castes at
/Reglad is brew days, whoa the esliedes 1111110 well is.
mod. Other 'manes, ion Mewed the
Wh
et ease systems.
home, Portsgel, Ilan Why thea did Myles' rammes
spasm mink& aminmeat whin made her ethaise hr
ems repeals' 1 Tien was no less than 3,171,001 L aims*
wring ham She bragefehlog id estry of the minim sr the
eatezprios et meishata. Bat that was alp belf
of the anneal maim nada by the
_Meal
system of cassia goviessest. Time INN 8,88,00 M mom
spent by the 08/1/AVIT MOMS. seal imiaellhom the rehab
of the people. The *tea to esialealla was die Cabal&
darn Tee expesillase was most ashangsnt. In=
the people, lia a essemerse a 41110.0001., were
in the sem of etym. The Maarides, with ma sr
pert trade fri 1. , pad 880,10101., or about 21. s heal,
4,6
1., lantion Guises was taxed at the rata of his a
haker busiae were sow dissonented with the new ge-
nres, whom they bed bees tanghtMexpeetsomuth.
In Jambe then was a advisee Wham el 306,000 k on as
upset Imiedlo4,oool, er that 44 per mat. The revenues
of Imola wire 195,7001. ; its explatheme UMW, and
whilst the gown= of that colony was awed* hem=
Lions for retreseineest, the Coloskidthes newel M
the salaries of the government eines mese
for the latmeste of the gemeases I thbsVillall IPO.
versed. The principle IC heel ecatoil our hag
tunas bed beat repeatedly' and by the mem sew is
other. Why, the, did they edam to reario it is the
ealasies,• sad obey to the eekaleta Na anted wash
aclaimed over the fads seised beat their awn
eta ? Whoa the present government "poke in favour of
government, they repoommeaded what they did net
practise; their actions did net squire with their words.
With MGM to migration again: Emigration, or rather,
the a . ntrisa prenaing (rem this emietry, was exceed-
Wily meal la amount, whilst the expatriation of British rab-
ies' we., as the coatrary, very great. The Colonel Cheerier
stated that Ia 24 yams 2,000,000 persons had left En
This was more than the actin population of all the eat
"denies pat together. Where, then, had these 2,000,000
peens ram ? To the tided State ; where, since those
had bola lost to England, the people had
=ria sambas from 2,000,000 ti 18,000,000 ; whin
the tide of emigration to those states was from 40 to 60 per
mat. of all tho panne who left Ragland. Last year the pro-
portion which west to the United States of the British era-
gnat was Pi pa "wt, being 188,000 out of 248,000. The
Illsigialiss VI u was very extravagant and faulty.
The whole of the British colonies did not contain as many
Baia kaallgOla as there were pauper. in the British
widtheaties, mire the mantry was told that the colonies
nos sear is so paha a state as they were at this moment.
libmaleassetoat pervaded every feature. If they talked about
the myna tif the army they would Ind that fifty battalions
were serving in the tansies ; but for any really beneficial
yarrow they were absolutely useless. For iestanee,there
was Italy ens regiment ia the whole of New South Wake.
What wee the use of one regiment In • country extending
seer 1,400 or 1,500 miles ? (Heir, hear.) Possibly by the
nithig of local militias these expenses might be reduced ;
hat it WU net his duty nor was it his 'aunties to suggest
mass he sting the expense of large military forces, =
maw= tar making them more effective ; but he said
OM I mead be as preposterous to have the Load
Mips of Loam Commander-in-Chief at the Horse Guards
as is have Kr. K. O'Ferrell governor of Malts, with •
ashy of 4,8001. or 5,0001. a- ear. The system was wrong
Vancouver's Island, which pommeled harbours
Nether natural advantages, and might have proved of in-
gsledside benefit to this country, we had given up to a
emersy whose ale interest it was to depopulate it, and to
rinit as little inhabited as risible in order that they
dotes profit from it. Ia New Zeeland, another vale-
sing, a similar system bad been pursued. The go-
venom* taiespereed crime and shovelled out poverty, and
deiced ad it Iris the most beneficial, the most successful
system of sidowitatioe that the world ever saw. For his
peat, be hand that the affects of the colonial system were
most itheMegli. (HOW.) He was convinced that our colonists,
ass body.
_IMO Nyal subjects; but if 111 isa Wed lon did exist any
wc=abginhea frees the feeling that the trust repoied in the
bed at been emend in such • manner as to
merit the malidean sr to win the regard of the colonists.
He culled spa the wormed to pause ere it was too late,
and he waned them that if they delayed long to grant rasa-
MSS of Tak4 knead of causing the sceptre of her Majesty
le sena over a well effected and innate population, their
et=woad be alienated from her rule, and they would
ineseer from some other source. (Hear, hear.) 'the
hen. Bentham emended by submitting the resolution
whisk had read.
Mr. HOME neraded the motion.
Mr. HAWES— The house, I am sorry to see, does not ap
raw to lan that Interest in this important question which
I for iss ahead dean; bet the boo. gentleman, I think,
mast take the blame foliate& for having reposed a motion
whisk I limey thought be seriously intended to have
brought Were the bered. be a select committee to inquire
into the palled alai Eason relations between (treat
Britain and ha deparinsise—a duty I apprehend quite bo-
red the reap eta asamdttee, sad the terawitiaa of whisk
se member- "Me resod Meows of Comma egad sestelay
nee hope le see. (A laugh.) On this grand I "hal give
• deeded again to the motion of the hon. gentleman—at
that I esisnalue the importance of the subject—not that I
think, wraleabtedly, that a gent committee with reihreses
to epeeist Wean might not he meet undelly 'iMsd i bat
bemuse it ii perfectly impotent* for • esen, el this
hens mdelly to discharge functions so great and various as
them whisk the hoc. gentleman would impose upon it. Bet
wish tepid to discussions upon this subject, I em
Mad to say that I enter into them willingly. It
h set diseasrion upon colonial policy or eolenW
alas that I dread, bat it is the apathy which exists in the
Seksaid, and the mirispresentatioes that are constantly
made of oar policy, and the rate and seedling of oar
that I wish to guard against. (Hetet heir.) Now
I nil take this opportuniry to glance over belt* what I
will nature to tali out colonial system. Ido net pawl to
stattethat it may not be susceptible of improvement sad albs-
. Far from it ; bet I desire to place before the hewn
as accentely as I fen, in a short y
time, • knowlehp d whet
is the °plena system. Catenly the Ma. allimmas,
speech has throws no light spa the othnet. III.• hos sr
Win • good deal et the ordinary misrepreseststisa reopen
log the Colonial-idles and our menial systems, bat he has
patted out no INN single remedy, he has enunciated no
single principle ea which he would venture to act with the
41111, lot vareehm the existing system, he has
=lsil so crie ftun or retort. Now, there are
U I may s i speak, existingn the eth-
icist e=rillailf Ws am yin. There are those colonies that
hen sepresentatin governiesste, together with what are
fisaut=7, follfoniMe_gevernmenu. By that phrase
I and I believe ft is the only correct interpre-
taiga of it, that the emotive eel or administration of
the governor is deradeat on Na msjarity a the house d
reankay. Wherever that exile Shea, the xeresestative
govenatest is essibised with the empeasible gmememint,
end that I held lathe most puha of canal
meat. Bash is Na form 'stab'. hi Canada, New=
wish, ad Nova Booth ; and I may say, that in Priam Ed-
ward's blend and Ilailsaadisad they an psagsleg them-
selves he it, their propeostioss meting with es on
the part sake eslonaleMes. What Is the ea it how-
ever ? The ken refileman seems to think this Ohs Is the
poiser:et the Cassia-Mem to man at ease a puha
tom sr giveramest epos the rriesies. Why, the staithlsa
elli=emestitedlia h this eastern of • oaten ammo d
sail el latedgenes. Within that, yea My pm-
namely mil leledoesly maim Meta iastilatiesi spa a
ItTMier, ear) Well, Ikea, I goy Min, to then
i...i. missies, that is seas and in Ca-
ndi, New Biwa* sad Nova Ina ispeitally, you have
at present the mist system of as gmessnesaL
TM mown moisiale, deem moths its vets era slimiest
laws sad sea: bat as regards them cassias it is emir
sled. The rine* sebhets which emeelas say
at all, if I may so week, are connected with trade,
sad I am sire the will see that it h of the
portant thiA the mown should retain the pewee el
esehilleMeg fiemedriag like a uniformity it pima*
between tno seether oweatry and the sondes ia respect
to cab Mahn to trade sad ennisee. It we ere to cony
eat ear oars tissue of inimserelet pain, I know nothing at
mere hoperhase Shea that we ahead endeavour to Is=
eslonial ad imperial laws Isleharamay upon that
(Hear, hem.) lbw then are other Revertants 'ding,
whisk ter be Gelled " rereseatative goverimmals," ad
are can Mashy, bt which the " respossible govematest," as
it h all* den set exist, and perhaps Ise some time soma
edit. Thisaggliss very generally to ear West India ear
ails Thom shat h sailed " respeades goveraisst," us-
&daft this ail stet; and there en "may names why
it is pedal* impathie at thereon nismat diet it sheal4
exist. Bat "gas I say, that r regards Me =rasa
ass be se hon ea the pert of those who ear
esisail oth All theme
sepreeratative bodies ia war West
ham gektika, however, peen cowddirsble power In the
AM beam 'They ban ea satire and over their
espeadiewee— leash a highly Important (aturc Take
the ems et Jamaica at this moment The 411011 f sever to-
talons in the Maths or the expediters Oda mien.
The amiably raise Ile eta lushes, and math* eater its
own sodhatity sod earelateadesca. I de set haw ea in-
seam day End isterhenee of hie ran is iimalea, or
ie my 'libel's* ladle* Calais', era the stablea et taxa-
tion adeapendidue. In the ease of Trisided k we' mid
with Indy that the revenue tell far under the a,eaditore.
The • man of singular disinarie mid
gnat
esilierhaesbeer)—pmpoesd at care to ranee the
gat alike te. Was there say to
inter-
relation the part of the Colonial-dim ? Nan Tie propo-
gel was.
Wes iniashaell rotted to, beams there was • clear
=t shown he a &mutation of the even-
The ratios= uded le °edam lam
plithlthei is • great assuredgang Into the eaditioa of

that scions,, biasses it is now derunhe coneideratin of a
committer beet I. maye4ostbat Earl Gay hes stated tia
reilg
perfect willio 2111 I) %all the salaries there ao oily
nannies near, ft link h new* exposed any leo.*
des n the oast of atahlishatnethere, it the
suboss, is sugdamegy binght under Ida eassideratioo. ,is
stem thepd feeteda the mama of As. nett ham los:lsesess
=tor.lieletainne), who knows as sablr it& daring'
. But thereds a material difference bit Tri- ,
aided and Guiana; became is Trinidad there is no civil list
audibleness, whereas in Guiana a civil list was volunteers&
by the colony in 1844, and they guaranteed to eertaln ppnbik
officers manes for sena years. It most be remembered.
MOIVOIST, that the frowns, in the West Indies is nit Omer
sire; that the panne leaused to the houses of antably de
not repressed the when popolatien ; that they are, Ia point
of fact, oligarchical bones.
Ilk. HUME—So are we here.
Mr. HAWBS—WeII, if the hon. gentleman wishes
to extend the franchise in the West Indies, he will
rd • very great indisposition towards ruck a measure
en the pert of the canons. Those bodies represent a few
mendleats, and in away nem absentees altogether. In
Minn they vote by proxy, and the owners of proprrty here
tender their votes for the election of representatives there;
au& ems persons hold as many as fifteen or twenty votes
Tye bodies, therefore, are not, properly speaking, popular
awl seissionative bodies; they are bodies repruoung in-
tannin nmil eastern. in whale it is necessary that the crown
shed& .win a certain esstrel. Wherever you have • class
beg hem eat. and • nee bog subject, and wherever tits
dispropollden between the two is gnat, with the popular n-
umbly, se lt is calksis renneeffing only the dominant ekes,
it is nvionsly agemmry- and just and useful that
lb mown should be en arbitrator end moderator
between the two pestles concerned. That is pro-
ds* the can in all the West India islands, and therefore
I say that it is useful, and just, and sound policy foe the
crown to retain that power is those colonies. (Hear hear.)
Bat there is very little interference with colonial legislation.
I remember, on a former occasion, referring to a man
whisk I had had prepared upon that point, and which
showed, if I recollect rightly, this result: that out of 912
local ordinances, only 65 were reserved for consideration;
those 66 being chiefly acts relating to births, deaths, mar-
riages, and such matters of great importance to the colonies,
and to the consideration of which the home 'oversewn
could bring a degree of experiences and knowledge which
might be most beneficially applied. (Hear, hear.) Now,
with regard to the interests of tee emancipated chases in the
West lodise, I say it is just and right that the crown should
retain a certain power over the legislation of three olio-
sies, sad that that mast be the cue lima the
mane nano* Jester than they are likely to do,
I for, la intelligence and information. There have
been many collisions upon this subject between the planters
mai the Colonial-office. It is not tor me to say that the Co.
lenial-offiee has been always right and the phases always
wren. Bat the Colonial-office had a high duty imposed
upeait. It had to watch over the interests of the peat ma-
Polity of the population of the West Indies; and it was a
duty which it could not shake off without abandning the
most definable and weakest clue of her Majesty's subjects
in those colonies. (Hear, hear.) I now pas from this class
etcetera, to what are called " Crown Colonies." The go-
.4lllllllSt in these colonies varies. Certain of them are
by a governor d council, the council consisting
Lire and
solely of oiliest members, and is others of of-
big sad andtal members. The colonies with an unofficial
corned an Australia, the Cape of Good Hope, New Zealand,
the Mauritius, and Ceylon. I except New South Wales be-
anie Ia that colony 26 members out of the 36 who compose
tautened an elected by the people at large, and the gore-r-
-awness majority in the council. There are then °natio
other selsaiss where the council is composed alone of official
semdbere. They include oar minor clue of colonies, oar
Mina settlements, Hong-Hoeg, Malts, and Gibraltar,
whin partake almost more of the character of millitary
stile= then of colonies Now, I will stets the result of
eer mini& system, and I think it will appear striking. We
hew 4$ colonies, cad not 60, 60, or 70, as ha been variessly
albs& 27 of these have representative institutions, some in
=et degree of perfection than others no doubt, but the
have representative institution., including Canada,
New Warwick, Jamaica, Antiins, Barbadoes, and all the
miner West ladies colonies. I should explain, however.
that when I say 27 have representative institutions, I
place under that head those which will be included in
• bill, which I hope to be able in a short time to lay beim
the hones with reference to our Australian colonies. I &eo
Inchon the Cape of Good Hope, where the principle has
been conned.
Mr. GLADSTONE—How many are there in which they
aistuslly exist?
Mr. HAWES—WiII you take New Zealand for one /
Mr. GLADSTONE—No.
Mr. HAWES continued.—You will not take New Zea-
land. Well, nineteen have them actually, and New Zealand
has them conceded in principle. The measure is on the sta-
tute book, and is suspended for reasons which I think to be
New South Wales really has them fully. Lord Grey
raving fairly and candidly communicated to them what he
considered a good constitution, and they having preferred
retaining their present constitution, Lord Grey immediately
ironed to their wishes, and the new constitution of New South
Wales (as we understood) forms the basis of the bill which I
shall submit. Van Diemen's Land and Western Australia
will also have the same system extended to them as lien 0111
they an beer the expense of It. British Guiana is in point
of fact a colony having a representative government, very
imperfectly, very defectively, I fully admit, and I should
hope that out of its present troubles may come • better aid
a more liberal constitution. (Hear, hear.) With regard to
the lonian Islands, there the have • representative govern-
ment. It is, however, in a very complicated coalition
founded non the treaty of Vienna. Still it is a representa-
tive constitution, and the present governor has suggested
improvements to which no objection has been made. (Hear,
hear.) Sixteen colonies remain, not possessing represents.
tive constitution. I take first Trinidad, and I think it would
IA difficult for any one satisfactorily to settle a form of cat-
atitution in the present state of its population. in which the
whites are a small minority, and the coloured population cm-
'data so large a majority. With regard to Helgoland.
St. Helena, and our African colonies, few I think would
advocate representative govenments in them. Ceylon and
the Mauritius have been mentioned. With regard to Ceylon,
I ventured to say upon a former occasion that it would be
quits impossible to have a representative government there,
with a population of a million and a half of Asiatics an d
tidy 4,000 or 6,000 Europeans. I applied the same remarks
also to the Mauritius, where undoubtedly more elements I
exist, and I hope that the institutions of that island may be
I Improved. Then. there are only those 16 colonies without
npresentative institutions. And thus, looking over our Co.
Intel empire, we have 43 colonies, of which 27 either pos-
srsrmrielresentative institutions, or have had them aim arty
i y conceded by the Secretary of State. Throughout
the whole of them you have a free press, without exception.
Ten have the trial by jury generally ; and in those points-
leg representative institutions they have the entire control
of the purse. As an Englishman, indeed, I must say that
nook with pride upon our colonial empire, as one which,
in my opinion, contented with any other colonial empire,
does reflect honour and credit noon this country. (Hear.)
I have been much misrepresented by the hos. gentleman.
The words I used were these—" Now it was not for him to
presume to defend all the errors and defects which might in
past times have characterised the colonial system ; but this
be did ay, that the colonial policy, taken as a whole, was the
mast enessedul and beneficial ever witnessed." I. adhere to
that. I tie not believe you will find other instances in which
countries have freely bestowed liberal institutions and poli-
tical frangible en their colonies to the same extent se Eng-
land. lem not defending the Colonial-office, bet lam
'peaking of the colonial policy of England ; say
that the colonial policy of England, taken Si a whole,
is kesourable to the character of this country. I have thus
spoken of the system of our colonial government; I have
mid that it is one which reflects endit and honour on the
eanstry, and I think so ; but there are great musts of dia-
conate ; many causes which interfere with the hi:anion
working of the details of the system, and I ask the attention
alb' house for a short period to what are the causes of dis-
gontent, and which, I must my, are used vigorously at home
gar purposes very different from these for which the colonists
me them. The imperial policy clan country bate be car-
ded out in some of its great and leading festers, by the Colo-
Mal-office. The Colonial-dike is the agent and organ of the
policy decided en bv this house sad the wintry. I may
hai osier bar distinct heads the great questions which
have celibate& the sharpest and the meat snap allision
between the Celealal.office and the mains iebeiti; rimy
bring under bar heads those causes of diffiegestlet.whielt
have teen Ible le time existed, for which the Celonal-office
has been mail mennsible, but for which gentlemen of the
EONS Of Comae= and the country at large are respoueible,
sad dee* have to share (the reproach whieh is now band
en the eMos which is merely the organ of the priaciples and
pellekegyanumelotedAagdlis sentry. I will take the abolition
et who will look into the history of
war aka& 1 imessame will admit that the strongest
=mots to the colonial minister by the suesr oolo-
be serwend by him, and all the collisions and,
dose arose entirely out of the policy of this country a
to the abolition of slavery. This house decided that great
ameba ef national policy and the Colonial-office bore the
bad of 011 the complaints, and had to sustain the policy of
the ban and yet those friends of humanity who sup.
eons' Mot gnat are amongst the most noisy of
Ikea wins . That is not all. This house resolved,
letter mew, able debates, that the policy of free trade
should he the policy at this country. Did that affect your
lesienies f It affected your colonies most sensibly, and yet the
Oeinkdolles has to 'maintain those general views; to bring all
ling esmilmmais into harmony with the banal policy ; to
hear A the seesplaints, all the reproaches, and bear with
them en *env of those gentlemen who maintain a large
debuge of paw whin I consider beneficial to the empire.
Take the ores of Jambi and Guiana. Why have they
empanel tici=ordnetly and emphatically say, w Yea
have debre Ihnn UO, and therefore we will inset
ea iielsoies expenditure." That brings en a collision. Who
beers the bunt ? The Colonial-office. Ism quits sun that
any sae who tea read the resolutions passed at public
meetings in Guiana must have seen that they attri-
bute • great deal of the distress to the free-trade
policy. If bankruptcy follow, do not visit it on the
executive department ; but take a fair share of the blame to
yourselves, if blame there be. I concur in that policy, and
may of those who an now assailing the colonial policy are
not the Minds of free trade, are by no means the men who
have stood forward to Identify themselves with its progress,
bat under the disguise of the moment are seeking to injure
these who advocate principle which they know themsehree
are them to whisk parliament and the country have hound
the ationial-ofilos to adhere, and they know that my noble
bead at the head of the government is the last man to
shrink frees earning out tuft views whisk le thinks
Vst.A am bound to say that these questions are
when everything is attributed to the
'""'"
~. a 5,..„ unfairly when ers, and nothing attributed to

die OsUerlfilbiell it Is the busbies, Iftllie a
ear
int. With noted to seethe 'gnat
sometimes brags as hdo collision lath thectigat=
New &seek W at wider Is celled thi wrests land
qiesties. I again musrloth to the bee. member the Bosh
wark, amtothen who are the warmest, boldest, and ablest
advocators, what may be demented setke assertion of the
twerwa'salglth ever waste Inds with.' view to presethe emi-
gration and odoeisatimr. That is precisely of what
the solealst complains. Here' Is a gentleman who had
ems character as to New South Wales, and
to supposed to speak their esntiinents with authority,
'WM eemplathe moat bitterly of the Waste Lends Act. The
celestes sietie the right of selling this land at any rise at
which they me sell I. The evidenos before the council of
New South Wales wrietly bears me out. They say it ought
to be 20. 6d., 45., orb., as the case may be, and thit they
ought to be the judges. lam not raising the question—l am
not contesting the feet : but It imposes obstacles in the way
of the Coloolai-offise, and therefore I beg It may be under-
stood that it is to the set of the imperial parliament that the
Colonial-Dina is bound to adhere, and it is not the policy ei
the Colonial-office, but of parliament. With regard
moVrring local eeltrvernment on the colonies, so
sae would go further than Earl Grey is conferring
local self-government on the colonies, and it does so happen
that no colonial minister has gone so far in conforrinoriglicsmat
government as he has done. There is really butes.
to extending the thiselple of local self-governess.% essil dist
is the 'Mane of the colony to receive it. Show nes an Y-
ens= el may nartindar oniony which is in • fit senithas to
moles local self-government, and I will answer it hoe raw
ray received it. I have already hinted at another limits-
bon as to the application of self-government, viz., where
there is • dominant clam, and a subject race of any ether
elem. In the West Indies, the Mauritius' and Ceylon, *steal
satin turd coloured population amounts to 2,600,000 penises
the whites amount to about 80,500. Will any one venture to
say that in a colony so situated you can rainier local self-
government ? If you do you must omen largely the power
of the crown to interfere with these local affairs. I object
es these general maxim which are propounded now and
then, that you an to confer representative government on
the colonies. This was the great mistake in the Mauritius
at the time of the French revolution ; they carried out
general ending, without discrimination and discretion
they extended franchises and rights which led to •screti civil
and desolating war. It they had taken the En-
.llsh .polky me a guide ; had England paneled die
and had mextend the rights, it would
'bootees leas with discrimination, are, and judgment.
Then there le anadier limitation of seltgovernment, where
ppenos Seth a groat military establishment, and have imperial
peemmenst interests, which you cannot surrender
—whisk yes MUM* allow to be at all weakened. Therefore
in these MOM yea oust limit the power of local self-govern-
ment to purely municipal affairs, but the general control
over the colonies must be vested in the crown. Having thus
ventured to dearth, what I may call our colonial system,
apart from on solonial policy, I think I may justly de
duce that our soksaial policy may be defined correctly as
a polity involving the conferring of political institutions end
franchisee on every colony that is in a fit state to receive
them. There can be ne doubt, I think, looking over the
list of colonies to which I have referred that in all these
eases the grant of free institutions has not preceded the time
when the colony was in • flt state to receive them. There-
fore I say that in future it will be the policy of this eountry
to confer local self government where the colony is in a state
to enjoy it and use it wisely and moderately ; but the hon.
gentleman pproposes to inquire as well into our financial as
political reLttosa. Now, I must say that that inquiry
would be really hopeless and endless. You must con-
eider what are the financial relations of England with
her colonies. Is it an early colony ? There undoubtedly
assistance is directly given by parliament. In some of the
colonies that have been ceded to us very large assistance has
been given. Up to 1831,7,0001. or 8,0001. was voted from time
to time for the Mauritius. In the Ceylon papers now be-
fore the house you will find that upwards of one million was
voted in aid by Ragland. These things have come to as end
the colonies are placed on a better footing; they are bearing
more and move the expenses of their establishments, and it
is a policy which, while it develops the resources of the
colony, will in the course of time enable them to bear en-
tirely the expenses of their own government. There
are large ex nan undoubtedly for the civil esta-
blishment. The hon. member spoke of the governors
of the West Indian colonies being a great bur-
den to those colonies. He forgets that, in the annual esti-
mates, we vote a large sum for the eateries of West Indian
governors. I shall hear that, ruined as they ere by free
trade, hampered ea they are by competition, we ought no
longer to extend any favour to them. I think the time is
coming when this subject must be seriously reviewed ; I em
not disposed to think this is the time in which on ought to
do it. At any rate, it is an answer, that the mantes of the
governors cannot be considered as a burden on the tax-
payees of these colonies. Then, of course, there is large
naval and military expenditure for the establishments: it
has been the subject of inquiry already to • very
great extent. I think that in the course of time it will be
subject to considerable reductions; but before you do that,
you must replan the establishments by some efficient and
adequate force, to maintain the peace, and protect the go-
vernment. No man has done more than my noble friend,
and my right hon. friend -the Secretary.at-War. to lay the
foundation of a future considerable reduction in the expendi-
ture of our colonies, by the establishment of local court; by
sending out pensioners with certain advantages, with Tempest
to land ,• and by establishments where military service is
connected with the tenure of land ;. thus laying the
foundation for giving to the colones • local force
adequate to the maintenance of their own affairs;
and I claim some credit for having steadily
been • party to a system of policy which is essential with re-
ference to the finances of these colonies. I hold it to be per-
fectly impossible for a committee to inquire isto the political
or financial relations of the colonies. I have glanced at our
colonial system- I have ventured to stet/ generallyin what
our colonial policy coedits; I have alluded to some of the
causes of expenditure, and have shown that it is not matter
fit to be inquired into by • committee of this house, fee it
would require • greater devotion of time and more it :femme
ties than it was in the power of a committee to
give. It has been maid that the patronage of the
colonies is reserved entirely for the benefit of the
aristocracy, that it is the object of the government to
retain this plumose*, with a view to provide places for the
aristocracy. In the first place, let me just nivide the patro-
nage of the colonies distinctly under two heads. Undoubt-
edly the crown possesses the power to appoint governors and
the very highest functionaries in the colonies ; but, with re-
gard to all the appointments below the officers of very high
rank, almost invariably the patronage of the Colonial-office is
given to the recommendation of the governor of the colony,
and that is done deliberately, and with a view to
confer on the colonists the administration of their own af-
fairs. The minor patronage is entirely vested in the hand'
of the colonial governor throughout all the British colonies,
and I believe that some portion of the unpopularity of the
Colonial-office arises from the disappointment telt at the ina-
bility to confer those appointment.. At to the appointment
et governors—some amongst the ablest of our governors un-
doubtedly belong to what is called our aristocracy. I hope
the time is not come when the aristocracy are not
to be sek Med u men of merit and ability. Few
would compete, under such difficulties, with Lord
Elgin ; few with Lord Harris ; and I even go so
far as to say that Lord Torrington has made a most
able governor of Ceylon. (" Hear, ' and " Oh, ob.") I may
that when these despatches are fairly and impartially con-
sidered It will be said, and it must be admitted, that with re-
gird to the administration of local affairs, they do show he is
a man of talent. I am perfectly prepared to defend his mea-
sures when the proper time strives. Take South Australia.
As far as regards patronage, it has been conferred both to
the advantage of the colony and with perfect disinterested-
ness. My noble friend has always gone on this principle and
has avowea it, that his object was to promote able
governors. If promotion be the rule, if men acquire
distinction, and that distinction be made the round of ad-
vancement, of course the higher appointments are
given to those who are already in office. To that prin-
ciple which the noble lord has laid down I ad-
here, and in looking over the major part of all ap-
pointments, I see there have been appointments of men
holding inferior places to places of higher rank. Now, sir,
the hon. gentleman especially alluded to New South
Wales, and said that the subject of emirates had
been altogether overlooked. I em rather 11140111filla
find the has gentleman make that assertion quite se
boldly. In the year 1846, there was hardly any
emigration going on to New South Wales. In 1846 there
were not more than 200 persons sent as emigrants to New
South Wales, and 2,164 were sent to South Australia. In
1847 there were four ships sent to New South Wales, with
800 einigreate, and to South Australia 12 ships, with up-
wards of 2,000. In 1848, 50 shire to New South Wales, with
12,200 emigrants, and to Swath Australia 23 ship, with 5,900
emigrants. It is manifestly true, that by any test that
can be tenoned • more soceliefed emigration could
not be aided on than that which was carried on
by the emigration commissioners. The ships have been
remarkable for being well adapted to their purpose, the mor-
tality has been next to nothing, the emigrants have gone
out in health, and arrived in health. By the arrangement'
made on the spot, they have almost Immediately had em-
ployment found them ; and I have no reason to doubt that
the whole of the emigration which commenced in 1847, in-
creasing in 1848, will be mast beneficial to England, and
most advantageous to the colonies. How stands the fact with
regard to theland fund ? Since, I think, the year 1837, the
total amount remind by the isle of land is 919.6691 How
is that distributed ? The hon. gentleman talk. about its being
crown land. That is likelylto mislead ; be ought to have
been more accurate in his description. The whole of the
wren:fund so received is devoted entirely to the colonies.
The crown has not the remotest interest in it. One-half
of It' devoted entirely to colonial improvement, such as
reads and bridges ; the other half is devoted entirely to
the 'greying oat of emigrants. Therefore the whole pro-
ends of what is called the crown revenues in these
great colothee are devoted exclusively and entirely to
the benefit of those colonies who furnish this fend
and undoubtedly very groat benefit and
have followed. Therefore I am bound to saychatallri
is evidence to show that a large fund has been raised, and it
has been wisely applied, and applied exclusively to the
benefit of then colonies. But it is most remarkable whoa
you come to consider within a few years the sums of money
that have been received. I think that when Lord Grey
into office there were no available funds from the lands of
New South Wales, and it was in debt, 100,0001. It might
have justified the noble lord in stopping emigration, sad if
he had hesitated es to future anticipations of the
wealth of the colony he would have resisted
the et emigration ; on the contrary, he felt
contlererartahlat such was the elastic vigour of the
Delany that it would not only be able to meet the debt than
existing, but before leng furnish means for future emigre
Lion, sad he raised a further 100,0001. That had been
eon-
esmed, sad mother 100,0001. had actually been raised. et

had bees raised on the man* of the crown
.revenue, there
revenues, that there would be ample security for paying the
being good reason to believe, from the groat unease in these
principal and interest on the loan so raised. lam anxious,
when the grown revenue is spoken of, that it should not be
supposed there is any leanest on the part of the crown.
On the cogency, whet is called the crown revenue is raised
and expended le the colony. I will not enter into the
vexed question of the convict system; that his been under
discussion in this house end may am* under discussion
win, but T ask the hewn to do me the honor to recall to
mind the grounds on which I have opposed this motion.
I believe it to be thoroughly and entirely impracticable. If
the hon. gootteman's object was discussion, I have endea-
voured Gaiety to meet him on that subject; I have
endeavoured at least to show him that his mo-
tion has attracted consideration and attention on
my part. I attach the hithest importance to
the eui act Unveiled in this discussion, and when the
hustles is thoroughly understood, we shall have less Reno-
eslides about colonial reform. Remember that the colonies
have rights which they hold dear as well as we do our own;
they have general powers over their own affairs, and there is
mas• Lion on the part of the house to us the Wa-
ggles et government carried out than on the part et
the Ceienishoffies. The right hos. gentleman himself
thought it &swear, to call the attention of the house to the
peisesedhige of the Canadian parliament. I hold that
the Canadian parliament had a perfect right to discuss
the subject in all its details, and submit it to the
governce-genoral's decision, and the governor-general win
bound to send the act when it so reached his hand to this
eountry ; and if the right hon. gentleman respected the
principle [of local self-government, he would not have said a
word about it, until the crown had given its consent. Then
I say that the Colonial-office has had to carry out greet ob-
jects forced upon its attention by this house and the country ;
that it is not to be made responsible foe these differences and
collisions which are daily sought to be attributed to it. It is
ens thing to say that yen will reduce the number
of came and impair the magnitude of the empire
delivered to your lands. We must pay the price of main-
taining the empire. I believe that if you will have colonies
scattered over the globe, with merchants living in them
with large capital embarked and invested, you must confer
protection on their interests and the trade. You must, if
you mean to carry oa the commerce of this country, main-
tain the police of the sou ; and I venture to say that if you
seek materially to impair your naval farce, you will And your
trade exposed to danger, and instead of being carried on with
perfect security, at the minimum risk, in all parts of the
globe those risks will increase. If you will have a
great colonial empire that colonial empire must be defended.
If you mean to say that your colooks are to have no protec-
tion, while they are to have load governments without dis-
crimination, I should like to know what is to attach them to
the mother country. I believe that our colonies have con-
ferred great advantages upon the mother country. Ido not
wish to see their connexion severed, and I do hope we shall
see the day when, from mere mercenary considera-
tions, we shall do anything which shall lead to the dismem-
berment of our great calomel empire. (Cheers.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said be agreed with the hon. gentle-
man who had just sat down as to the course to be taken by
the government with regard to the present motion. He
agreed with him in thinking that no good could arise from
the granting of • committee of . inquire on a subject
so extensive and complicated ; indeed he was inclined
to think that each committee would only subserve
the corrupt interest of the government, if it had
any, because the committee would find itself so overladen
by the difficulties of the subject as to render its coming to
may speedy or satisfartory result • matter of impossibility.
(Hear, hear.) He did sot mean to say that there were no
occasions on which a parliamentary committee might be
beneficiaL For instance, if his hon. frisad chose to move
for • committee to inquire info the disposal of Australian
waste lands in New South Wales, such committee might, no
doubt, render good service. But desiring as he (Mr. Glad-
stone) did, to see the attention of the country brought to
bear in an increased degree upon colonial subjects, he was
unwilling to give his consent to • description of in-
quiry which could effect no searching investiga-
tion, nor lead to any satisfactory result (Hear, bear.)
He conjectured that the iotention of his honourable
friend was rather to procure discussion on the subject than to
obtain a committee. (Hear, bear.) He must say that he
agreed in a good deal that had been said by the hon. under-
Secretary for the Colonies with regard to the many charges
current against the colonial department of the country. He
admitted that much of the unpopularity which had fallen on
that department arose, not so much from the views or prin-
ciples of those in office as from their having been the only
organ known to the colonists of the views of the parliament
and people of this country. (Hear, hear.) He thought that
the hon. gentleman curtained in referring to the questions
of slavery and waste lands, and some others as affording re-
markable instances in which the Colonial-office had been
placed in collision with the colonists, bemuse through that
office alone were they made acquainted with the views and
intentions of parliament ; and at the same time he was
bound to admit that the faults in our colonial government
arose not so much from the conduct of any colonial minister
as from the public mind, and that of parliament being insuf-
ficiently enlightened and imperfectly exercised on the subject
of these affairs. (Hear, hear.) Having said so much, he
must add that he could not go with the hon. gentlemen
when he said that he felt pride in contemplating our colonial
system, and asserted that it was the most successful which
the world had ever seen. If the hon. gentleman compared
our system with those of other European states, he might be
prepared to agree with him.
Mr. HAWES—That was what I intended.
Mr. GLADSTONE—The hon. gentleman had said the most
distinguished the world had ever witnessed, but the distinction
which he (Mr. Gladstone) was going to draw was not be-
tween England and foreign states. but between the ancient
and modern colonial policy of England herself. (Hear,
hear.) He held that a broad line was to be drawn between
the colonial policy which had founded the present United
States and that which had prevailed in the councils of this
country during the last sixty or seventy years, the latter
being, in his opinion, far less beneficial, and much more ex-
pensive in its character. (Hear, hear.) He agreed with the
hon. gentleman in hoping that no mercenary consideration
of expenditure would ever induce that house, or the coun-
try, to sever the connexion between the colonies and the
p t state, but still the money question was important,
inasmuch as there had been hitherto much unnecessary
expense in the administration of our colonial system. (Hear,
hear.) Bat there was a far greater and more important
question, and that was, how we could give the greatest and
most effectual development to our colonial system, a question
which) in his opinion, was not to be solved by continued and
excessive expenditure from the imperial treasury. (Hear,
hear.) He did not hesitate to say that what government
ought to keep in view was the great and important function
which government had given to this country, that of layiag
the foundation of new states in different quarters of the
globe. (Hear, hear.) What they should keep in view in
raising these infant communities was, that if they established
them on sound principles, the political connexion would sub-
sist so long u it was good for either the colonies or the mother
countries that it should subsist, and when it ceased he trusted
it would not be severed, u in the case of the United States, in
blood, but would cease to exist from the natural strength
and energy of the new country being in a state for perfect
self-government and independence—when the similarity of
institutions, of customs, and of race, would remain in them-
selves ties infinitely more valuable than any political con-
nexion whatever. (Hear, hear.) He very much regretted
that the hon. gentleman had thought proper to refer to what
had recently taken place in Canada, because, having said
that it would be premature for the house to ask for
information on a subject of great imperial concern, he
(Mr. Gladstone) thought it yet more to be depre-
cated that the hon. gentleman should himself commence
laying down dogmas on a subject which was confessedly unripe
for discussion, and on which the house was as yet imperfectly
lammed. He would say nothing calculated to 'prejudge the
important question now under discussion in Canada; but
this he would say, that he must enter his protest against the
doctrine laid down by the hon. gentleman, namely, that
members of that house should not interfere with questions
under discussion in colonies having free institutions until the
matter had taken the form of law and had received the con-
sent of the crown, being thus placed beyond the interference
of parliament.
Mr. HAWES—I said pending discussion in the colonies.
Mr. GLADSTONE—Yes • but you could not touch them
afterwards. To he sure, colonial laws might be repealed by
act of the imperial parliament; but still, would it not be
much wiser to interfere in a matter which had not yet re-
ceived the content of the crown, than to take the violent
course of ultimately protesting in parliament against it.
(Hear, hear.) He held that freedom was the principle upon
which colonial policy should be founded, but at the same
time he coatended that that freedom should have reference
to matters merely local, and should not at all touch ques-
tions of imperial importance. (Hear, hear.) However,
wishing to adhere strictly to the principle he had laid down,
and to avoid premature discussion, he would now pass on
to the remarks he felt it to be his duty to make
upon the question immediately before the house.
There was one henna to which the honourable
gentleman had referred in speaking of the unpopularity
of the colonial office, which he thought peculiarly unfortu-
nate. The hon. gentleman referred to the cases of British
Guiana and Jamaica. The latter colony he would not touch
at that moment; but with reference to British Guiana, he
thought the hon. gentleman unfortunate on two grounds—
first,made by the hon.
because the matter wag under discussion elsewhere ;
gentleman. The hon. gentleman and, secondly, because he could not assent to the statements
con-
tended that the discontent of the West India colonies had
arisen out of the action of free trade, for which the colonial
office was not responsible. That was true ; but did the hon.
gentleman mean to say that, because that house bad applie d
the principle of free trade to the West Indies, and because
the West Indies, finding their means diminishing, were cry-
ing out for economy, they were, on that account, to be dis-
credited or disparaired ? (Rear, hear.)
Mr. HAWES—I did not assert that.
Mr. GLADSTONE begged the hon. gentleman's pardon.
Ris contended that the whole bearing of hie statement had
that tendency. He did not mean to say that the hon. gen-
tleman had offered any dogma as sgainst the colonies; hut
he thought that the latter lied a right to expect net merely
a negative consent to economy, but should find the imperial
government urging, recommending, and promoting it.
Mr. HAWES—I quoted the case of Trinidad. (Rear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE—In that ease all the credit the go-
vernment could lay claim to was the having offered no
opposition to retrenchment. He could not accept or approve
of what the hon. gentleman had said with reference to
British Guiana. The hon. gentleman bad stat:d that Lord
Grey was ready to concur in reduction according as vacancies
scarred in the evil list, but that until then he felt bound
by the obligations of public faith. He (Mr. Gladstone)
could not say whether or no Lord Grey had ever given that
pledge, all he could say was that he had redeemed it.