The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-11 00:00:00

t Mr. MOW YER-1 mover was secretary to Cardissl Wilt
' oran.

Mr. NEWDEOATE begged the hun. gentleman's par-
don—then he was net so well qualified t) answer the
speeches which had been made as ne thought. When the
hon. me:nber fur Cheltenham rose and ►'ated frets with

reference to a relation of his, the hon. member fur Dundalk

gays them a flat eostradictiOn.
Mr. BOW Yfr.:ll. explained that he bad not given • fiat
contradiction to the hon. member. . . .

Mr. NEWDBOATE—At any rats the hon. gentleman
gave a gestated denial to the fact that there were any such
rules in easiventa applicable to the relative of the hon. ram-
bler for Cheltenham. But would the hon. member for

Dundalk suppose that the house would not believe the
facts stated by the hon. member fur Cheltenham on his own
knowledge, which were connected with • near relation of
his, or that the house world be persuaded that that lady
was not detained against her will, and that there was not •
discrepancy between the ststements of Bishop Hendren and
Mrs. Jerniogham as to whether she was • poculant ur not)
lion. gentlemen who opposed this measure had taken
the only course open to them, namely, to deny everything,
He wished to know why the women of this country were
not to be allowed the MMe liberty u those in other 03U11
tries. The hon. gentleman here read an eztr..ct Irons
Liguori, which describes what a convent was to • bad and
. .

discontented nun, and which ended by characterising it as
a " hell upon earth." lie wou d tell Roman catholic mem-
bers that the people of this country would nut allow a " hell
upon earth " for any person to exist here. There was no
des're to interfere with ladies who wished to re-

main in convents, but it was the duty of the
legislature to tee that the liberty of the subject
was respected in the cases of those who were unwil-
hog to remain.

Lied J. RUSSELL deeply regretted that this question
bad bi en brought before the House of Commons. A simi-
lar bill was submitted to the house two yens ago, and was
then r jected : and there were equally strong grounds now
for not entertaining such a proposal. (Cheers.) In the
first place, it was to he considered that this was • country
in which we boasted of our personal liberty, and in which
we believed we had made ample provision fur the security
of that personal liberty, not only as against the government
and against those who by means of authority might detain
subjects illegally, but as against individuals who by force or
other means retained a person in custody against that
person's will. Was it, then, true that Were was never-
theless one clan of persons with an insufficient
security for their personal liberty : that to them
Ilaheu Corpus and other wise acts were inapplicable;
and that, consequently, for them a new sort of law was re-
quired ? He shou,d be sorry to come to such a conclusion,
because, if that were so, then he would have to think that
our laws must be generally insufficient, and that we would
be obliged to provide, in other cases, and in other respects,
greater securities than we at present possessed for personal
liberty; that, in feet, thiscountry had not what it is supposed
to have in regard to guarantees for the personal liberty of
British subjects. (Hear.) He could not come to any such
conclusion from the case which the lion. gentleman (Mr.
T. Chambers) had made out. (The n.ble lord here gene-
ralised Mr. Chambers' argument.) Many of these ladies,
he (Lord J. Russell) believed, entered these Romeo catho-
lic private homes from • spirit of sincere and deep deco-
tdu. They passed their lives in devout contemplation,
soothing to them, and performing what they believed to be
their duty to God—if not as they. (protestants) might think
wisely, yet with great purity of intention, and with a spirit
which ne man ought to speak of otherwise than respectfully.
(Hear.) He would say that it was more natural to females
titan to persons of his sex to entertain these deep
feelings of devotion, and to believe that by retirement, by
contemplation, and by prayer, and by penance, they were
Cperformi, g a duty grateful to the Almighty. (Hear,
ar.) There were others of these ladies who devoted
themselves to more active duties ; and if that house re•
sweetest the pious intentions of one class, it could not but
regard with approbation the practical services performed to
the human race by the other. (Cheers.) Ile referred to
those who superintended institutions for young girls, those
girl+ being taught, not only religion, but useful arts by
which they became industrious members of society; and
ladies spending their lives in such a task, could
not but obtain the praise of all men of all creeds. (Hear,
hear.) There were others of these ladies who took vows
of a special nature, and who devoted themselves to the
most painful, and sometimes to the most disgusting duties of
attendance on the sick • who watched night and day by the
couches of disease, to alleviate its pains; and who were the
best and gentlest of the assistants of the surgeon and the
physician. (Hear, hear.) Such being the case, he was
asked aot whether he approved of these institu-
tions, because upon that subject he would cer-
tainly exercise his protestant judgment; hut he was asked
whether he would interfere by law in order to put special
restrictions and submit to special examination, the bosses
in which these ladies have chosen to live. (Hear, bear.)
The hon. gentleman who had last spoken had pointed out
one great defect, in regard to which he (Lord J. Russell) as
a protestant could not but agree with him, and which not
only attached but appeared to be inseparable from institu-
tions of this nature. It could not but happen that young
ladies, who entered these convents in the ardour of the
enthusiasm of youth, or upon the persuasion of relations
(and in catholic countries he bad observed instances
of such persuasion being used) might afterwards look
back with regret to the world they had left and might even
deplore that they had bound themselves to such a life by
their stringent vows. This was to be regretted ; the sym-
pathies of society could not but be with sueh unhappy
ladies; but when hon. gentlemen said " we will not per-
mit in this free country such things to take place," they
went far beyond the remedy proposed in the bill which was
asked to be brought in, and they proposed a remedy of •
totally different nature. The hon. gentleman (Mr. New-
degate) had quoted from Liguori ; but it was quite
evident that such exhortations and such arguments were
not grounded upon threats of fetters or manacles, or sub-
terranean dungeons ; they were addressed to sensitive per.
sons, to the mind and heart, and superstitious feelings,
and the impression intended to be produced was that those
who had taken such solemn vows had no right lightly to
viol ste such engagements. (Hear.) Certainly, however, he
(Lord J. Russell) agreed with the hon. gentleman, that the
use of such exhortations would hardly reconcile those ladies
who were in doubts about the wisdom of the choice of life
they had made. If he was asked his opinion as to the
injurious consequences, as evidenced in such mental
struggles, of these institutions, as a protestant he could not
but go with the hon. gentleman. But when he was asked
to assent to a law on the subject, and when it was contended
that in this free country such things could not be permitted,
he was bound to tell the hon. gentleman that the only law
which could prevent such things would be • law
forbidding the existence of convents altogether. (Hear.)
Practically the remedy proposed would be no remedy.
These ladies might refuse the inspector to be sent down any
explanation ; to each an official they would be very un-
willing to detail the struggles of their conscience ; and if
the inspector were to say—" The doors shall be thrown open
to you—you shall go again into the world—you are free ;"
the answer would be—" You are totally mistaken in my
eau, it is not an affair of confinement, it is not bolt,
bar, or lock, which restrains me, it is my seise of
obligation to observe sacredly my vow." (Hear, hear.)
Frideatly, therefore, such a machinery would be utterly
inefficient for the purposes contemplated. (Hear, hear.)
Evidently, therefore, also, unless the legislature was to my
that it would not permit the existence of convents, it could
not reach the evil which arose out of such institutions.
(Hear, hear.) Now the law had so far permitted
these convents to be founded and to flourish; and
seeing the consolation which they afforded to so many
ladies, and seeing also the practical benefits which in many
cues they conferred upon the community at large, he was
disposed to leave that question to the opinions and
to the sense of right of the Roman catholies themselves, and
he would strongly object to any interference by law.
(Cheers.) The house, then, cams to the more intelligible
evil described by the hon. gentleman, via., of persons being
actually confined in convents against their will—forced,
by absolute physical means, to remain in those
houses. On that point, certainly, the evidence of-
fered was not extensive. (Hear, hear.) Three or four
cases had been referred to ; but they wen net of a positive
character; the test of crossamemination of witnesses had
not been applied to them ; and they were, therefore, of
little worth, assuredly without that positive proof which
the house would require before it consented to legislate.
(Hear, hear.) The 1100. member for Cheltenham (Mr. C.
Berkeley) had mentioned an instance in which he had not
been allowed to see • near relation residing in •
convent, except in the presence of the Lady Superior ,•
but, as far as he (Lord John Russell) could
make out, that was a cue in which private
feelings influenced, sad which did not illustrate any general
law. (Hear, hear.) Such a case, essentially of a private
and domestic nature might have happened to any prates.
tent young lady, tithing refuge with • relative, say her
aunt, and refusing to tee other relatives except in the com-
pany of that mint. (Hear, hear.) But there was another
and conclusive reason why the house should resist this mo-
tion. The argument was that ladies were retained
by force, that personal liberty was denied them, and
that it called for the whole power of the British
parliament to give them freedom. Now we lived after all
in a free country ; and persons of the Roman catholic faith,
Eoglish subjects, did undoubted value the liberties of
their country ; and those persons, valuing the principles
of personal liberty, must have a value, above all, for the
happiness and the comforts of their sisters and other* of
their female relatives who became nuns. (Cheers.) He
(Lord J Russell) was not to be told that the Roman
catholio gentry of England and Ireland were 40
utterly dead to a sense of the principles of po-
litical freedom, or were so destitute of the com-
mon affections of men, that they wor;td willingly
see all the laws for securing personal liberty set at naught,
and see the doctrine of slavery practised, r.r that they were
without the heart, were such things done in these convents
as were lightly alleged, to stand up in that house and to
denounce such tyranny. (Cheese.) He was, on the con-
trary, very fully convinced that if the evil alleged existed
to any extent, or if it even easlo, be proved in the few
cans adduced, the Roman catholic members of that
house would be the first to entreat the intervention
of parliament. (Cheers.) For these reasons he would op-
pose the introduction of the bill of the hon. gentleman, and
not alone on the ground that no sufficient case had been
mode, for the objection went • good deal further. It was
not only to be observed that those of the Roman catholic
persuasion did not themselves ask for interference on behalf
of those of their relatives whom protestant gentlemen in-
sisted were forcibly detained in prisons ; but it was also
evident that Homan catholics would feel it a
serious injury—and, indeed somewhat of an in-
sult—if ;.; was attempted to pass such a bill
as that now proffered into a law. (Hear, hear.) lie
would, therefore say, if a law was revised on the subjeet,
it must be in the form of a remedy, which would apply to
the whole patinas—(",hear, bear, from the oppositicru;—