The Express.
London, England, 1847-12-16 00:00:00

*Tetley managed, and therefore the act fixed no further
limit than they had voluntarily imposed on themselves. Hs
had placed the name of Mr. Torment on 'the committee, end
why ? There were six hanks of issue in Ireland,
and fire of them had a direct interest in Belfast,
and therefore the member for that town was placed on the
committee. It wet said the West Riding was over-repre-
sented. lie (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did not con,
eider himself as a member connected with that county ; but
he was named on account of the office he held ; and he thould
have been on the committee, whether he represented a
borough in the West Riding or not. He had put Mr. Cob-
, den on the committee without reference to his representing
the West Riding, but because he was one of the witnesses in
1840, and a gentleman who had taken an able part in the
Made of the country, and might fairly be said to represent its
manufactures ; Mr. Thornely, also, who, though no longer
• manufacturer, was connected with Lancashire. Mr. W.
Beckett, the member for Leeds, was placed on the commit-
tee because he represented a large manufacturing town, and
was the bead of one of the beat conducted country
beaks in England, and which, during a time of distress
and difficulty, had afforded large assistance to trade and
commerce. Mr. Alderman Thompson was a very large
employer of labour, and ought to be on the committee.
No one employed more labour than the railway companies
represented by Mr. Hudson and Mr. Glyn, and when he
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had attributed part of the
distress which had prevailed to railways, it was only reason-
able that those gentlemen should be on the committee. Mr.
Glyn, besides, was one of the principal bankers of London.
One of the members for London (Mr. Mutermen), who also
belonged to that interest, had declined to serve. If he (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) could convince the house on
the main point, vie., that the committee was fairly consti-
tuted, they would be spared much discussion. When he
had stated what he believed were the views of the different
members of the committee on the act of 1844, he thought
the house would not withhold from him the credit of wishing
to appoint a fair committee, whereas he could show that if
the amendments of his noble friend (Lord G. Bentinck)
were carried, it could not be a fair one. Ile intended
to propose his right honourable friend the member kr
Portsmouth (Mr. F. Baring) aa chairman of the committee,
and he thought it would be admitted there could be no
choice which would better deserve the confidence of the
house. He would read the names of those members of the
committee who were in favour of the set of 1844, and of those
who were unfavourable to it, and of those whose opinions
were not known. Nine members supported the bill, him-
self, Sir Robert Peel, Lord J. Russell, Mr. Goulburo, Mr.
Labouebere, Sr J. Graham, Mr. Cardwell, Sir W. Clay, and
Mr. Ricardo. There were unfavourable to it, Lord G.
Bentinck, Mr. Herries, Mr. Alderman Thompson, Mr.
Thomas Baring, Mr. Spooner, Mr. Hudson, Mr. Disraeli,
Mr. Hume, and Mr. J. Wilson. There were six whose
opinions were not known, Mr. Cobden, Mr. Teunent, Mr.
Thornely, Mr. H. Drummond, Mr. Glyn, and Mr. Beckett.
Now supposing that the committee was constituted
as proposed by his noble friend Mr. Francis Baring would
be in the chair ; and, taking the six impartial members it
would leave in favour of the bill himself, Sir R. Peel, member,
J. Russell, Sir J. Graham, and Mr. Goulburn. Against it
there would be Lord 0. Bentinck, Mr. Heerlen Mr. Ald.
Thompson, Mr. T. Baring, Mr. Spooner, Mr. Cayley, Mr.
Hudson, Mr. Hume or his substitute, Mr. Disraeli, Mr. 411111.•
Hattie, and Mr. Henley, giving a majority of seven over
those who were pledged to the bill. Added to these were
the six impartial members. As to the other two, Mr. W.
Brown had proposed au issue of 11. notes, and Mr. Pathetin
wee supposed to hold opinions not favourable to the bill.
(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Pattison.) If, therefore, there
were five pledged to the bill and fourteen against it, could it
be called a fair committee ? He did not think it could be
said that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had packed
the committee, or had done anything but what was likely to
elicit • fair and impartial judgment. (Hear, hear.) Two
gentlemen (Mr. Hume and Mr. Herres) had expressed
their desire not to serve ; and he was sorry, on public grounds,
that either of these should not serve. He hoped that no
proposal to substitute any hon. member for either of the
two he had last mentioned would be admitted, but that the
country would have the boned of their services on the com-
mittee. If, however, the hon. member for Montrose declined
to serve two hon. members were proposed to be substituted in
kis place. The one was the hon. member for Birmingham
(Mr. Hume), and the other the hon. member for Paisley
(Mr. Hattie). The only objection he (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) had ts the substitution of 14r. Munts's name for
that of Mr. Home was, that he thought the latter more truly
represented the system of free-trade ;issues in Scotland. He,
however, should not have the slightest objection that the
name of Mr. Hattie, who was well acquainted with the 'vi-
ten. of Scotch banking, should take the place of Mr. Hume
in case that gentleman should persist in declining to serve.
With regard to the changes in the constitution of the com-
mittee of which his noble friend the member for Lynn
(Lord G. Bentinck) had given notice, he should feel it
his duty to oppose the proposition. He trusted that impartial
persona would think after this ;explanation that he had
not constituted an unfair committee ; if so, he hoped the
house would support the nomination he now moved—a
nomination made according to his best judgment. (Hear.)
The SPEAKER then put the question, that the following
members be nominated the select committee on commercial
distress:—The Chancellor of the Exchequer, Sir R. Peel,
Lord J, Russell, Lord 0. Bentinck, Mr. Herries, Mr. Goal-
burn, Mr. Aldermen Thompson, Mr. Labouchere, Sir J.
Graham, Mr. F. Baring, Mr. T. Baring, Mr. Cobden, Mr.
Spooner, Mr. W. Beckett, Mr. Cayley, Mr. Cardwell, Mr.
Hudson, Mr. Hume, Mr. Ricardo, Mr. Glyn, Sir. W. Clay,
Mr. Disraeli, Mr. Thornely, Mr. J. Wilson, Mr. Home
Drummond, and Mr. Tennent,
Mr. 11. 'DRUMMOND addressed the house in so low a
Moe as scarcely to be audible in the gallery. We under-
stood the hon. member to say that be thought the house
first ought to consider the object and intentions with which
the committee was appointed, and next whether its con-
stitution was such as would be calculated to arty those
objects and intentions into effect. For his own part he felt
it impossible to hope for any relief ,being afforded to the
country by any report to which this committee could agree.
He minimised that it seemed to him that a committee of
more various opinions, or entertaining more discordant
views, could not have been selected, and this on a subject of
all other upon which they should be agreed, on the A, B.
and Cof the matter, into which they had to inquire. Until
they had agreed on a fixed standard of value, they could
never come to a report which would be of any,the least utility.
Mr. B. OSBORNE apprehended, that at this period the
bourse was not prepared to enter upon a currency discussion,
and he should therefore confine himself to the real question
before the house—namely, the nomination of the committee
on commercial distress. Assuredly if there was any hon.
member entertained the opinion, that any good would result
from this committee, the working elutes, alluded to on a
former evening by the lion. member for Finsbury, did not
concur in any such notion. If any. one fact more than
another had been laid down by the right hon. baronet, the
nmiot
emb,eritforwuTamthwaotrthh,einha lidis able speech theth the an-
utility of appointing any committee at all. The
right honourable baronet had pointed to the 15,000
questions and answers taken in evidence by a former out
mittee—answers which, especially those of Mr. Jones
were essays long enough for separate publication ; and
that would be done by the committee now proposed would
be the production of four or five blue books of evidence.
He (Mr. Osborne) regarded the appointment of the com-
mittee as nothing more than a pretext to shelf the reel
question—(hear, hear)—for though the whole commercial
world were looking for an explicit expression of opinion
from the government, the ministry, shielded by the right
hon. baronet the member for Tamworth, gave no opinion,
but proposed to lock up 26 hon. members in a committee-
room up stairs, and, at the end of two years, they would
publish four large volumes which would make the public
just as wise as they ware now. It wee true that he had voted
for the committee, because he had been carried away by the
brilliant speech of the right hon. baronet the member for
Tamworth —• speech which, at the time, would have is
duced him to have followed the right hon. baronet an. J
—(loud laughter)—hut afterwards, when •
himself the next morning, he very much r.rettieur&at he
had not followed the nob. lord the member for Lynn (Lord Cf.
Bentiack) into the other lobby—(renew ed laughter)—hoomm
he thought that greater satisfaction would be given to the
country, if, instead of the question being referred to a select
committee upstairs, it had been entertained in a examinee
of the whole house. (Hear, hear.) To the members of the
committee, as now proposed, he had no personal objection ;
thereactwalof 1844 were csoomuommittetie,e at
oughtst;
tbhuet;stillgo
thhevthr cniti4h st f
the ofi
have heed composed of twenty six gentle:lan who uyet
had expressed no opinion on the subject. In the present
committee, however, every member would be fighting fins
his own opinions, and it was nonsense to suppose these
would have any weight except in that house. With a view
to do that justice to Ireland which was so loudly called foe
by many hon. members, he should certainly, at the proper
time, divide the house on the proposition of which he had
given notice, to substitute the al= of the hon. member for
Dublin (Mr. Reynolds) for that of Mr. Hume because the
latter gentleman had informed him (Mr. Osborn) that he
felt the appointment of a committee was shelving the ques-
tion, and, therefore, he should decline to act upon it.
Mr. NEWDEGATE concurred in the opinion which had
been exeremede that the government proposed a committee
composed of far too great a number of members who were in
favour of the act of 1844, which was now on trial before the
public and condemned by them. He therefore wished to
see nominated, men practically acquainted with the working
of the act of 1844, and he should support the aubetitutions
intended to be proposed the hon. member for Finsbury,
by the hon. member for Middlesex, and by his noble friend
the member for Lynn, as the means of bringing the commit-
tee to a practical solution of the question referred to them.
He trusted the government would not oppose the change,
but, by acquiescing, relieve themselves from the trammels of
those prejudices which had actuated former committees.
Let the committee be so constituted es to be able to report
upon the effects on prices which had been the result of the
existing system, or the country would not be satisfied ; and
the result would be that the government would lose the
confidence of many of their best and most active supporters.
Lord G. BENTINCK said it had not been his in-
tention to have addressed the house until the proper
time Mlle, when the name of Mr. Labouchere was proposed
as a member of the committee ; but perhaps he should best
consult the convenience of the hones if he now endeavoured
to draw back its attention to the real matter ender discus-
sion, and to prevent, if possible, the debate running into
one on the general question of the currency. (Hear, hear.)
He would not be tempted to say one word on the currency
question, but would confine himself to the constitution of the
committee which the house had resolved to appoint ; and he
should probably further suit the convenience elf the house
if he debated, °nee for all, the alterations Y the Nati-
rotion of the oommittee which it was his InSeNan lin
pose, as thereby, thrush it would tral.
several &diens, le amid not be Tell
on the attention of the boars. (Hear, hear.) It
to exclude from the maidellhie several gentleman
named, upon it, he swayed these gentleman he soma we
pect or diseenrhey le any ese af them, kr by the uk
cumdisresstenoe, that they were to have II and no more members