The Express.
London, England, 1851-05-06 00:00:00

influential is her do
-o ambarailor, nal r
• -oole. There r-

possil to be Ai
missies,el Constantinople. There was another power whose
and Russia had no __..-uses, nothing but Englandample;
Adiplomacy had bent insuired bilelhy the committee, namely
malie*, The ihnied EltaMemeettiemployed ambassadors,
wilier., 'lid her mitilstMiefirmal more than 2,0001. a year.
He bag asked the noble lord (Lord Palmerston) himself
whether the American minister with his 2,0001. • year
had lees weight than the English embessador with his
6,0001. a year, and the noble lord admitted that the fact
was not so.: He regretted that the reconsmendations
of the committee in regard to Germany had not been
The
tonocibleermloradnyaMdlitheis(mwasr.
nadcooothdptreotitbiothutogehtgouthnvei unite the
peculiarly the proper time.
German polities were centred to a degree never before
known in two capitals—Berlin and Vienna; and if, just
now, an ambassadorship could be done without at Vienna,
surely there could be no good objection to doing away
with the embassies to the third and fourth rate
courts of Germany. lie hoped that these matters
would come before the house in a formal way k and
that the house would not forego the opportunity of giving
its opinion upon them. What the noble lord said with
respect to the recommendation of the committee as to the
abolition of offices to which no duties attached, involved •
principle. The noble lord argued that it was desirable to
have certain members of the government, without specific
duties, in order that they might be at liberty
to aid those of their colleagues who might be overworked.
If the noble lord (Lord .1. Russell) could assure him that
the parties who were appointed to these ofUccs were geue-
rally selected on account of their possessing the talents
necessary to enable them to come if requisite to the aid of
the other members of the government, he (Mr. Cobden)
would say there was virtue in that policy. Ile admitted
that them might be cases where such officers might render
the government essential service; for instance, in such a
ease as when the noble lord himself had been Paymaster of
the Forces he had been able to come to the aid of his col-
leagues. It could not, however, be shown that these sine-
cure officers had been peculiarly valuable in any depart-
ment—that they had dune anything except in their own de-
partments, and in their own there had been generally
nothing to do. (Hear, hear, hear.) Ho (Mr.
Cobden) admitted that the members of the cabinet were
fully worked, and earned the money they received.
Money, however, was not the only remuneration they re-
ceived. If it were, he (Mr. Cobden) maintained that no
money could remunerate the noble lord (Lord J. Russell)
fur the great labour, the incessant trouble, and the constant
anxiety, and tear and wear, which a prime minister in this
country must go through. (Hear, hear.) lie (Mr. Cub-
den) maintained that the money did not constitute the re
muneration of the members of government. It consisted
of the great patronage, and the great glory, and the faun)
which they enjoyed. And he hoped there was some pa-
triotism' re too, which find the ambition of statesmen,
promptedand
them to serve their country. (Hear, bear.) After
sonic further observations, Mr. Cobden said he would be
constrained to follow the example of his friend the lion.
member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) and decline sitting on
any committee when he found their exertions had been
so abortive as they had been on the present occasion.
Viscount PALMERSTON would follow the precept
rather than the example of the hon. member for the West
Riding of Yorkshire (Mr. Cobden), and would not detain
the house for any great length of time. He was convinced
that the public service of this country was greatly
benefited by the nuiintenance of an ambassador
at Paris as the representative of this country. The salary
of that official they proposed reducing front 10,0001. to
8,000/. a year, and although the hon. member (Mr. Cobden)
might think that the republican form of government might
Justify a reduced scale of remuneration, yet nobody who
knew anything of the state of society in France would
my that there was that change in the habits of
the people of Paris which seemed to be implied in the
opinion of the hen. member (Mr. Cobden). English tra-
veller* must not now expect from the ambassador at Paris
that large extent of hospitality which they had hitherto
conceived it their right to receive and he (Lord Normanhy)
his duty to give. (Laughter.) He (Lord Palmerston)
thought it fair to his noble frieud (Lord Norinanby) to give
him that public warning, seeing that the new arrangements
as to passports would be likely to increase the number of
traveller', and that each individual assumed that the pass-
port entitled him to the attention of the ambassador. An
ambassador was also maintained at Coustantinople,where ho
(Lord Palmerston) believed the interests of this country de-
manded the presence of such a functionary. The hon. member
(Mr.Cobden) had said that one power which exercised au in-
fluence at Constantinople as great, if not greater, than this
country had there no ambassador. Ile (Lord Palmerston)
was perfectly willing to admit the extent of influence exer-
cised by Russia at Constantinople; but, considering the
magnitude of the Russian empire, its proximity to Con-
stantinople, and its influence there, he was inclined to
think that the influence of Itiesia at Constantinople would
ho very much the same as at present, even though she were
represented by is secretary. It had been said that the
ministers of the United States only received 2,0001. a year,
that their influence was as great as it would be were their
salaries higher, and that therefore something like a similar
salary would be sufficient for the ambassadors of this
country. It was quite true that he (Lord Palmerston) bad
stated to the hon. member (Mr. Cobden) what he was ready
to repeat now, that when the American envoy came into
his room he never measured the deference due to his posi-
tion, or the weight due to his influence, by the amount of
salary he received; but, at the same time, he would venture to
' state that if they asked any impartial American citizen
whether the public service did not suffer by the small sala-
ries paid, he would tell them that the salaries of the mi-
nisters were by far too low, and that they ought to be in-
creased. They had in this country a distinguished citizen
of the United States occupying the position of minister.
That minister, however, was possessed of an ample fortune
which enabled him to live in a manner honourable to him-
self and the country which ho represented. But at
former periods the position of representatives of the
United States in this country had been painful
to their own feelings, from its being impossible
for them to return those social courtesies which
every person in this country would be happy to evince to-
wards them, and he (Lord Palmerston) thought it would
not be satisfactory to the feelings of Euglishinen that their
ambassadors living in foreign countries should occupy a po-
sition different from gentlemen living in their own country.
The hon. member (Mr. Cobden) had said that this time
was peculiarly fitted for the abolition of the minor missions
in Germany. It was true, as the hon. geode-
man (Mr. Cobden) had said, that the governments
of Vienna and Berlin did exercise, as they
must do, a preponderating influence over the affairs
of Germany; but if there was anything peculiar in
the affairs of Germany at the present time it did not favour
the views of the hon. member. He (Lord Palmerston) had
to remind the hon. gentleman that the old Diet of Frank-
furt was to be established, and that as the decisions of the
Diet required to be unanimous, should any of the smaller
states stand out, the result might be similar to what oc-
curred in 1818. (Hear, hear.) Ile (Lord Palmerston)
could assure the house that the information front these
smaller missions was frequently of the highest importance.
Lord Palmer-ton concluded with some remarks on the sala-
ries of law officers.

Mr. HUME referred to a former occasion, on which, ;
when he had made a few observations, he had afterwards
been precluded from making a motion which he had on the ,
paper, and begged to ask the Speaker if, should he offer a
few remarks at present, he would be precluded from bring-
ing on the motion which stood on the paper ?
The SPEAKER replied that when a member had
spoken once on the motion that the Speaker do leave the
chair, it was against the rules of the house that he should
again.speak
Mr. ACME—That I say is an interference with the
liberty of speech. (Laughter.) I am precluded by a rule
you lay down from bringing on my motion, if I speak at
present.
The SFEAKEPs—I have laid down no rule on the mat-
ter. It was always the rule of the house that on the ques-
t tion that the Speaker leave the chair, hon. gentlemen
' might speak once, and if any hon. gentleman does speak
once he could not speak again while the same question was
before the house.
Mr. HUME could only say that in his experience he
had known three, four, and five questions raised. (Order,
order.) lion. gentleman would allow him to express
his opinions. (Cries of " Order," from the ministerial
benches.) Hon. members on the bench beneath him (Mr.
Hume) were obliged to be silent. They must take what-
ever was told them, and keep quiet. (The hon. member
was here interrupted by an observation from the Attorney-
General.) The Attorney-General might keep his observa-
tions to himself. He (Mr. Hume) thought that the salaries
of diplomatista ought to be reduced. He did not see
what use they could be In the present state of Europe.
The noble lord had referred to the influence of Russia at
Constantinople without having an ambassador there.
Why, he would ask, did we keep up a large fleet in the
Mediterranean, and require an am or also to keep op
our influence? Ho would not go further on this, but, as
he was not allowed to speak twit*, he would not sit down
without calling the attention of government to the promotion
in the navy.
Sir F. T. BARING here rose as if to address the house.
Mr. HUME.—When I sit down that right hon. gentle-
man can go on. (Laughter, amidst which Sir F. T. Baring
resumed his seat, and Mr. Hume proceeded.) Two years
ago the cost of the navy underwent a searching inquiry
before a committee, and amongst the recommendations
which the committee made, was one to reduce the
number of admirals from 150 to 100. The motion
which he had given notice to bring before the
house was that that recommendation be carried out.
lion. members, however, would be in possession of a paper
dated 29th April, from which he learned that government
proposed to'rectuee the number of edmirals from 150 to 100,
of captains from 492 to 350, of commanders from 828 to
450, and of lieutenants from 8,247 to 1,200. It was satis-
factory to see that government was directing its attention
to that department, and he was only sorry that they
did not do it long sito. In consequence al Ws
proposal, the ground of his motion was taken from
under him, but they were called upon for 6,5001.
to carry this reduction into effect. As the object of his
motion was effected, he should withdraw it.
Sir F. BARING gave explanations in reply; and after
some remarks upon the subject by Sir G. Pechell,
Captain BOL.DERO complaind that the resolution of the
house last session, that the accommodation for assistant-
surgeons on board ships of war is inadequate, had not been
carried into full effect.
Sir F. BARING assured the'hoase that it was the inten-
tion of the Admiralty that the resolution should be fully•
carried out.
After a kw remarks from Mr. Wakley,
The conversation dropped.
TILE HOP DUTIES.
Mr. FREWEN brought before the house a grievance of
which his constituents bitterly complained ; and which

had caused the greatest distress amongst them. At the
time the hop,dutles were passed, the country was at war,
and they had beenregalated by the high priews then exist.
tog. la 1&12, however, such was the distress produced by
those duties, that the goyerameet of Lord Liverpool &dart
enforce one moiety of them. The distress, however, had
nut been so great as it was now, because then there was •
protective duty of 84. 10s., which had since beau reduced to
121. 6s. Sebsequent gsvernmosts had several time,
postponed the collection of the duties; and in 1848,
the Chancellor of the Exchequer had postponed •
moiety, but he had lately given notice that it
must be paid within about ten days of the present
time, and this had produced the most alarming digress.
lie therefore begged to move: "'!'hat an humble address be
presented to her Majesty, most respectfully to inform her
Majesty that very great distreas exists in those districts of
the county of Sumer whets hops are grown, and that it will
be quite out of the power of the bop planters ii, that county
to pay the excise duty on the crop of 114:4 during the pre-
sent year."
Alter • few words from Mr. frethea,
The CHANCELLOIt of the I; Xt;111:41:1'.1t r, t,clod to
be obliged to uppuse the motion. so Ise was *war.. i..•t great
distress existed in the locality referred to hy the ere, gen-
Hernial. Ile wished to rail the attention of th• horse:, and
of those gentlemen in particular who coots:ode I for the ne-
cessity of protection to egricultural re, to the
present rather remarkable case. Thu hop growers
possessed it complete monopoly. It was true that some five
or six years since the protcaaing duty had Leon reduced,
but not to such an extent as to encourage importation or
to cause the slightest alteration in the price of the crop.
Here they had an interest protected to the highest degree,
yet they were plunged in deeper distress than producers
who were exposed to competition. (Hear, bear.) In 1848
the hop growers complained of distress, and represented
that if required to pay the duty on the crop of 1848, in
1849 they would be ruined; and therefore he (the Chan.
cellar) postponed the payment of the first moiety. He had
no doubt whatever the wide spread distress was entirely
owing to the system of credit which prevailed in the
district. lie thought no gentleman would deny the posi-
tion that, when producers possessed a monopoly they could
exact from the consumer the full amount of the duty on
the crop. They had dune so; but thou they had also in-
creased the hops crop to beyond all demand. In the three
years, 1843, 1844, and 1840, the average produce was of
each year 30,900,0001b'. of hops, which, having realised
a good price in 1814, 1847, and 1848, the hop growers
increased to 47,000,000145. In the next year the pro-
duce was small, and the price high; but in 1880
the produce was again exceedingly large, being about
48,000,090Ibe.; when, in consequence of the overgrowth,
the prices fell. Therefore, in his opinion, the hop growers
had by their prices realised the cost and duty paid on their
crops ; and for that reason, not seeing the justice of their
demand, he felt bound to oppose the motion. (Hear.)
Mr. L. 110HGES (who was indistinctly heard) said that
he hoped some relief would be given to the hop-plantern,
who were in a very distressed condition. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BASS said that the growers of barley hail just as
good • case to come before the house, and to ask for •
remission of the malt duty, as the growers of hops.
Mr. EWART said that the present proposition was moat
unjust, for it asked fur relief for the hop growers only,
whereas the hop dealers had as much right to consideration

as theMr hpopi
sgroi t
rsLI said he was somewhat surprised at
the admissions of agricultural distress on the part
of honourable gentlemeu who had opposed his mo-
lion in reference to that subject. (Hear, hear.) The
right hon. gentleman said that hops we're a protected inte-
rest, and that he could not interfere ; but he made pre.
eisely the same Ammer when they asked him to interfere on
behalf of an unprotected interest. (Hear, hear.) There
was a reduction of one-fourth of the forego duty, and it
was but reasonable to expect that the internal duty should
be reduced at least in the same proportion. (Hear, hear.)
There was nothing against free trade in sue!' a proposition,
It was a proposition for which every free trader might vote,
and he hoped they would vote for the motion of his hon.
friend on this occasion. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. MANNERS accused Mr. Bass of not giving •
fair statement of the condition of the hop cultivation.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the member for Bucks (Mr. Dis-
raeli) had not quite correctly represented either the motion
before the house or the present state of Ades. Any one
might suppose from his statement that they had before
them the case of a county and an interest which was
suffering front a great importation of foreign produce.
Now thu fact was that though the duty had
been reduced, it had not been reduced to such •
degree as to admit foreign hops except in a year of extra-
ordinary prices. (Hear, hear.) What slid the house think
had been the importation of foreign hops? Had it been
1-10th or 1-20th of the whole production? (Hear, hear.) It
had, in fact, been about the hundred and ninetieth part of
the whole. (Hear' hear.) To say, therefore, that the hop
ro gwers were injured
by foreign competition we.. to make •
statement not agreeable to the facts of the case. (Hear.)
There had. certainly of late years been an immense increase
in the production of hops. In 1843 the duty was charged
on 27,800,00011 is.; in 1840, it was payable on no less than
48,000,00016 s ; and the natural consequence of this increase
was a diminution of price. The hon. member tun Buck/
had represented the motion as one expressive of sympathy
with the distress of one class of agriculturists. Now, what
was really the motion before the house ? It was not merely a
statement of distress, but it represented to her Majesty that
these hepgrowcrs were unable in the present year to pay the
duties chargeable against them by law, the inference in-
tended being that they were unable to pay that which was
owing. That was certainly an extraordinary proposition.
The hops had been sold at the price which they fetcheiLun-
der the supposition that the duty charged would be paid—
(hear, hear) ;—and throe who had put the price so paid
into their pocket were now asking to be released from their
debt to the revenue. To such an unfair proposition the
house could hardly be induced to agree.
Mr. FItEWEN said the motion having been brought
forward unexpectedly lie should nut divide, but merely in
consequence of the state of the house.
The motion was then withdrawn.
The house then went into committee of supply.
Sir F. BAILING proposed to take a vote the naval stores;

Mr. MIME having observed that the vote was a very
important one, and that it was then nearly 12 o'clock, the
right hon. gentleman withdrew the vote.
Sir F. BARING then proposed to take the vote for
naval retirements, but that also was withdrawn on the
same grounds as the previous one.
The eIIANCELLOIt et the EXCHEQUEn. intimated
that he wished to take a vote to defray the expense of the
Kaffir war. (Much laughter.)
The right hon. gentleman not persisting in his intention,
The AMMAN reported progress, and. the !louse
resumed.
The report on the Process and Practice (Ireland) Bill
was received.

CHIEF COMMISSIONER OF WOODS AND FORESTS.
Mr. COCHRANE moved fur returns of the attendance
of the Commissioner of Woods and Forests, since the noble
lord came into office .-1. At the Board of Woods and
Forests, Works and Building=; 2. At the General Board of
Health; 3. At the Commons Inclosure Commission; 4. As
Chief Justice in Eyrc, North and South Trent; 5. As Ga-
yeller of the Forest of Dean; 6. As Commissioner of Green-
wich Hospital; 7. As Commissioner of Highland
Roads and Bridges; 8. As Commissioner for the repair and
maintenance of roads, bridges, and harbours, originally un-
der the care and management of the Commissioners of Holy-
head Roads; 9. As Commissioner for building churches;
10. As Commissioner for the conservancy of the Mersey;
11. As trustee fur the commissioners for the management of
certain churches in Marylebone ; 12. As Commissioner for
paving Regent-street; 13. As Commissioner tee Fine Arts;
14. As member of the council for the affairs of the Duchy
of Cornwall ; hi. As Commissioner for the geological sur-
veys in Great Britain and Ireland, and the museums esta-
blished in London and Dublin; 16. As member of the
commission fur the more effectual means of improving the
metropolis; and of the number of boards held during the
same period, that is, since the noble lord was appointed
Comnussioner of Weeds and Forests-4. At the Board of
Health; 2. At the Commons Inclosure Commission.
The entoneration of the noble lord's multifarious duties
created considerable amusement in the house.
Lord SEYMOUR said that if the hon. member had any
substantive charge of neglect of duty to make against him
he should have given notice ; if not, the return would be
mere waste paper.
After a short conversation, the motion was withdrawn.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. DISRAELI asked what course the government in.
tended to take with the public business un Friday next.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he intended to take the income
and property tax first, and after that the Ecclesiastical
Titles Dill.
The house adjourned at a quarter past 12 o'clock.

ARY COMMITTEES.

HARWICH ELECTlON.—Yesterday, at 11 o'clock,
this committee re-assembled, Mr. K. Seymcr in the chair,
and proceeded to a scrutiny of certain alleged had votes
upon the poll, which, if disallowed, it was contended would
establish, by giving a majority over the votes polled for
Mr. Prinsep, the right of Mr. Crawford to sit fur the bo-
: rough. Mr. James, Q.C., explained, at considerable length,
the parliamentary principles which, under 6 Vic, e. 18,
governed scrutinies of this kind. Amongst a multitude of
legal disabilities to vote, declared by the statute, were non-
continuanos of residence; employment in the Customs,
Excise, and other government departments—provisions
that would be found to apply to votes sought to be struck
off, about six of which, out of • list of 60, would be
necessary to entitle Mr. Crawford to take his seat. Only
three cases, which underwent a protracted argument, had been
taken when the house rose at four o'clock, one alone being
disallowed or *track off on the ground of non-residence of
the voter. Tho vote of William Hood, a " glut " or extra
tidcwaiter, employed by the customs when there was a glut
of vessels in the harbour, was declared by the committee lb
be • good vote, Mr. Serjeant Kinglake contending that the
objection to the vote thould have been taken at the time of
refistration, and that it had been decided in the case of thei
Kinsale election that an occasional tidewaiter was not to be
disqualified from vain. The committee then adjourned
to this day at 11

Sr. ANDENIE'II RAILWAY.—The Admiralty have just re-
ported their went to this bill for a lino from St. Andrew's
to the Edinburgh and Perth railway.
Taw VALE RAILWAY.—Yeatle' y Mr. Bernal'e com-
mittee passed the preamble of this ill for power to London
and South Western to subscribe for reduction and arrange-
ment of capital and change of same to that of " North
Devon Railway and Dock.

Now min
QIFFICIAL CATALOGUES.
1. THE OITICIAL CATALOMI, tee is, rye h. id.
'FIE 1111111T11014 ONTICIAL NdoKr— nvk gad ULM
MILD ESTBLOHLTE. ssest4o74l AL AIN I. pHs 11.. es&
WNW—
beeinejsm. tit OAS ; Eissirsdisi 44' As Swig=
plirafaingbast ateskersis 1•14.41.66 Illte alsosses
I.4.B4VA.6.l"Siarti. trliiiirs is
11.1•1 Hassii Hs=
wow;
likbab.-1. Mimi gad imolai ?oho ;
•cm.
Lisa sot PlNlOssilleal Rudest; S. 1/4=7.1.1 is A*:
4. TipiAls td MIMI Osislions mil is
'As alga *lll.. • til be weft 4.004.
$ iTSOPIStat 11.OHHTE111. of the 011.4.4 T EXHIBITION,
Bassas Sim Zap • ell liataielleardo. tmedisd Oeser.
ass 4. ft*, Mil 4114414.. e. prise4a.
MS 1 id 1211111111011 BUILDING. al•rately, prise 44.
L THE WWI men= d lib/ FAllltitTioN arraim,
cAALoolnk_Maresi7. 1•4111 • prised prim, 44,
11. rums ad the 04iim. CATLLOOI.IIB D 4•144111101.1
be Kee is Ow ell to wimsasty animoid. 24. 44. 44414.
4.1.4411m05e1e IMO OMR lief 011 MIS lain 41
the did We maim ftleirlovidelne
the =etailaiMbesut= gain,
4411401
cLOWIS SOlMltltimlue.
MI& Cadmus os. ti, 144 w 11iii5e444444.