The Express.
London, England, 1865-02-28 00:00:00

NAVY ESTIMATES.

Sir J. PAKINGTON wished to ask the noble lord the
Seerstery to the Admiralty, before they proceeded to discuss
the details of the navy estimates, for soma explanation on
certain potato connected with the navy, and desired to know
whether it would be more convenient for him to do so on
the question of the Speaker leaving the chair or after the
noble lord had made his official statement. He wished also
to ask whether the noble lord oould not make some arrange-
meets whereby the house should know with certainty when
the navy estimates would come on
Lord C2AOET bad no imitation in saying that the most
conveoient parse would be to allow him to make his state-
ment lint. With regard to the snood Twine, be would
ask the house to allow him to make his statement that
night at any time before 10 o'clock.

CONDITION OF IRELAND.
Co the motion for going into supply, the debate on the
state of Ireland was resumed by
Mr. ROEBUCK, who began by expressing his surprise at
the statements he had heard from Irish members sad at
their mendicant tom, observing that the propositions
in the resolution implied a complaint against the
government of England, with • all for " some-
thing to be done for Ireland"—a phrase of which he
bad • horror. I know (said the boo. member), England
wax a cruel stepmother up to 1829, bat from that time to
the present I defy any me to show ine anything done in
this house which can he found fault with—l except the
Coercion Bill, which wee about the last cruelty committed
m this house ; but from that time the great object of this
house Me been to do justice to Ireland—to make her people
happy—to give them the power of governing themeelvee—
to make them equal to Englishmen and Sootchtmo. (Hear.
hear.) Is only depends upon the leaders of her people to set
the example ; and if the hon. and learned gentle-
men will set the example, and tell their friends
that the time ix past for protestant domination
—that Irishmen must be equal before the law,
—that the law is paternal, kind, and good to all alike, end
that all party domination must cease now and for ever—if
they tell them this, they will do • great deal to soften those
animosities which are so disesteem in Ireland. (Hear, hear.)
I would say to the catholic. and initiate of Ireland "Accept
your position ; you are not • province of England, but one-
third part of • great empire. (Hear, hear.) You are our
equals, and we want you to be governed as we are ourselves
—we went you to be as happy as eareelves—we want
you to be one with us in happiness, in greatness, in
virtue, and in honour." (Cheers.) Until Irishmen break
down ell their little petty animosities they may
be assured they will be condemned to what they are now.
It is not a hundred thousand pounds, nor a million of
money lent by the government, that will drag them out of
their diMoultiea. They must do it themselves. It is not
enough to tell me that the metre of Ireland is lower than
the shores : that is not the cause of the misery of Ireland.
It is not enough to tell me that we have coal and they have
little or none. That is not the 01010 of the misery of Ire-
land. The misery of Ireland comes from her own children.
It is their own weakness, their own prejudices, their own
narrow views, their own hostility to each other, that has
created and will continue to crests the misery of Ireland.
I my cam for all that until that is done away with there
will be no hope for Ireland. (Cheers.)
Lord DUNKELLIN &seared the hon. and learned mem-
ber who bad just sat down that he was not going to add
one note to that wretched whine for money of which he bed
spoken, but when the subject of Ireland was before the
house he claimed, as • representative from that part of the
kingdom, the right to address it. He knew it was said that
Irishmen were always grumbling. But why ? It was because
their wants were never attended to. He contended that the
imposition of the income-tax on Ireland was unfair. Sir
Robert Peel, when he proposed the income-tax in 1842,
said be had been naturally led to consider whether Ireland
should be exempt, and if he found the mesas of raising in
Ireland an amount equivalent to what the income-tax
would yield, he should not be unwilling to exempt Ireland
from the income-tax. That equivalent was found in en
additional shilling per gallon no the duty on "pinta, sod by
raising the stamp duties. Theduty on spirits was then 22.8 d.,
and it was raised to le. 8.1. It was Dow more than double that,
and the additional stamp duty also continued to be levied.
He did not come there with the whine of • beggar, but he
did think that a great deal of good might be done by afford-
ing facilities for improving the arterial drainage of the west.
era counties, and for widening the harbour of Galway. The
encouragement of such works would at least indicate • desire
on the part of the goveranient to meet the wants of the
people. (Hear, hear.)
Sir H. CAIRNS concurred in the expression of regret
cootaieed in the motion that circumstances should have ex-
isted which had led to • decline in the population of Belied;
but if, taking 'raised as she now was, he were asked to re-
gret that there were not 3 or 4 millions more inhabitants in
the country. he could not do so. Turning then to the obser-
vations of Mr. Roebuck the bon. and learned gentleman
disavowed the leadership of the motestants of Ireland
exclusively. He represented • town which comprised both
protestant+. and Roman catholic', and One as much as the
other. Hs repudiated the idea that the north of Ireland
ever came to the house with a mendicant whine for the
grant of a single shilling of public money ; and denied that
public men is that part of the country ever advocated any-
thing else than • free, just, and impartial administration of
the law, or failed to exhort all classes to live together es
friends and co-workers ia the great work of regenerating
the country.
Mr. LOWE did not consider the taxation of Ireland
to be one of the great grievances of the country,
but there wee • sort of voluntary taxation which
b 4 looked upon with the utmost dislike, and which
must be to the Irish nation peculiarly irritating and
annoying—it was the tax which the great mass of the peo-
ple, out of their want and destitution, were obliged to pay
for the maintenance of those to whom they looked for in-
struction in the rites of their church. (Hear, hear.)
Ha could not conceive anything more irritating for • nation
this to find themselves celled upon to miatribute to the
maintenance of their clergy, while, perhaps, within their
sight raided in a comfortable house • clergyman who, how-
ever pare his life and excellent his teaching, was not
the minister of their faith. (Cheers.) It he was
right that the distress of Ireland was mainly due to it.
change from an agricultural to a pastoral country, it wee
obvious that only tame and the constant flow of emigration
could relieve the oonatry. If we resolved upon expending