The Express.
London, England, 1847-03-27 00:00:00

sinus government to inquire into the state of the Irish
pow. Than that commission, one could hardly be found
leas likely to agree in any one erroneous view, fur it was
composed of Protestants and Roman Catholics, clergymen,
lawyers, and laymen, of men different in habits and educa-
tion, and differing alto on many questions of policy. The
opinions of those oommissionen, however, the government
did not think fit to secede to, or to rstify. There were dif-
ferences of opinion amongst them es to the establishment of
such a poor-law as was afterward. established. They found
a large majority of the Irish people, of all clause,, afraid of
the experiment which the government decided upon trying;
but all agreed—those who approved of the government poor-
law, and those who objected to it—that it was most essential
not to establish the principle of out-door relief, which they
said would be " ruin and confiscation," and that sentiment,
l it appeared, had been repeated, not long since, by a leading
member of the government. With those of the commis-
sioners who dreaded the proposed experiment (and he ad-
mitted he was one who did so), the chief ground of objection
was the fear lest it should lead to the principle of out-door re-
lief. He, on other grounds, considered the experiment ha-
zardous, and not likely to be followed by the beneficial re-
sults others anticipated from it; but his great ob-
jection was, that it might lead to such a pro-
posal as the government had now brought for-
ward. In his own locality, every effort was made to
prevent the people losing their habits of self-dependence,
There had been hitherto in Ireland a great reluctance on
the part of the people to enter the workhouse. lie looked
upon this as a moist favourable symptom, and had encour-
aged it by every means in his power, because he feared that
if it were once overcome the workhouses would be swamped,
and the call would become general for out-door relief. He
had made his labourers believe that they were doing a hard
day's work, and fully earning their wages; but if they had
believed they were entitled to out-door relief, any attempt
on his Fart, or on that of his steward, to make them work
would have left their lives not worth a day's purchase. (A
laugh.) The English labourer, accustomed to comparative
luxuries, might feel reluctance to accept out-door re-
lief; but to the Irish labourer, accustomed to a bare
subsistence, it would be a perfect land of plenty,
and would, in his opinion, totally supersede the necusity for
work. The consequence of the government measure, should
it par into a law, would be, that they would have, not two
millions, but the whole population of Ireland throwing
themselves on the poor-rate; in witness of which, he might,
at this moment, point to the farms deserted, while the la-
bourers were Isnily performing half labour on the govern-
ment works. It was not from any wish to preserve the
landlords' estates from confiscation—for confiscation it would
be—that he deprecated the government measure. It was
from regard for the unfortunate people themselves, who
would be thrown by it into greater destitution than
ever. (Hear, hear.) The rates in aid would icon
be called for; then a second rate to get in the
arrears of the first; and when the third was called for, there
would be no response whatever. Finally, the hurthen of
the rate would be thrown on the united empire. He wished
that the people could be kept from destitution, even at the
expense of half ruining the Irish landlords ; but it was phy-
sically impossible. The amount of destitution was
more than the land would support ; so that even
if no rent were asked, no man would farm it
subject to the rate. It would be better if the government
were to confiscate the land at once, and taking it into their
own hands, to give to the owners such pensions se they
thought sufficient for Irish landlords. (Laughter.) Even
if possible, he would still deprecate it aa destructive of the
moral character of the country. He believed that out-
door relief would, in three years, effect as much mischief in
Ire land as it took three hundred years to effect in England
In the former country there was everything to render the
experiment doubly dangerous. In the first place, the people
were improvident, and inclined to dependence to an extent
he had never seen equalled in any country called cirilised.
As an instance of this, he would mention that in a sea-coast
village in Cork there lived a number of fishermen who were
in the habit of getting abundance of fish at a bank about
twenty miles from shore. Since the distress they had re-
mained idle, although the fish were swarming almost in
Bight, fully satisfied with the miserable soup they received
from charity. He had proposed to fit out these fishermen
with food and tackling for the voyage, but had been told
by persons on the spot that it would be no use, for that if
provisioned and sent to sea, the men would land at night,
consume their sea-store, and return to the soup-kitchens.
They were, in fact, not fit to be trusted with a loaf of bread.
(Hear, hear.) The present was certainly a time of great dis-
tress; and great sacrifice' must be made; but for the expe-
riment of out-door relief, he did not think that a worst time
could have been selected. (Hear.) If it had been tried
when the workhouses were nearly empty, he should still
have deprecated it : but now, when they were full to over-
flowing, the experiment was absolutely perilous. (Hear,
hear.) It might be said, that something must be done, and
if not out-door relief, what eke ? He should recommend
inquiry. If they did not inquire—if they took this leap in
the dark—they would create nothing but confusion and dis-
content, and would have to retrace their steps at an enor-
mously increased expense. For these reasons he implored
the house to steeds to the motion of his noble friend.

The Earl of DEVON could not feel justified in denying to
the people of Ireland that species of relief which was
afforded to the people of England. (Hear, hear.) It was a
great mistake to look upon this as a single measure. He shoal
support the government bill, as one of a series of measures
for the improvement of Ireland.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE repudiated the sug-
gestion that government, in this measure of Irish Poor
Law, had acted without due deliberation, or upon the mere
pressure of circumstances. The subject bad been for years
past investigated in every possible way, and it was upon a
careful examination of the merits of all such inquiries, that
her Msjeety's government had proceeded. He hoped his
noble friend would not press his motion.
Earl FITZWILLIAM supported the motion.
Earl ST. GERMANS said that the noble lords who had
spoken against the bill could suggest no better measure, and
the government having brought forward a proposal on their
own responsibility, he thought it would be very wrong in
him to give any vote which might have the effect of indefi-
nitely postponing its consideration by their lordships.
The Earl of ROSSE was unable to collect from the
speeches he had heard any suffic:ent ground for opposing
this motion. _ .

The Eul of MOUNT CASHEL said he should support
this motion with great Irratilleatioa.
Lord MONTEAGLE replied ; and their lordships' then
divided :—Contents l2
Non-Contents
Their lordships adjourned at a quarter to one.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FIuney, MARCH 26.
The SPitazzi took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINM.

SECOND READINOELAYr—Iiirb OUi, Ayrshire Roads, Champ-
cress I/Am se4 Perth Railway. National Manmade
LID ANIMISM Itillardiele• Potteries Waterworks, Stockport
Masseldlas sal 'mem Docks, Terringtnn Marsh Dirt.
=....Alkiftsig. sal Wakefield Market, Wisbech Port and
,
001CMITI5M—Onalasse Duties Bill.
REPORT.—Paehisis Waterworks BM
PUBLIC BUSINESS.'

PORTIONS—Mr. BScrdaMJ,frOte. a iiimenting oonfregatice
Is Mataimiald Sr J. farrsora, from Leicester; Mr. Y. BARRIO,
kin Perlimob• Mr. IL CrAwroap, from two eoogeeoanone in
Poshide ; Mr. MATEMIV, from hhdependenta of Aahloaree, and
tram ear dews; Mr. C. 8r00m..., from two
tk,.. Lord 'dogma, from orrer:lllll.art sad
ether swegripMer In Yorkshire • Mr. A. Onamsa, from
the slap- Haelgdoe; wad the Goverwaset plan of
adsealkm. Oftlin latav,r, kte par law gradirms of unlona
alwaseaushka, sed Worseeteneure, for
repeal d Pea leasseel Ast. Mr. Ososam. frau Ilsillsaate, for
waft arelneet d Vegmey Aet ; from Della. geranunent
relearss blanewere.- Os Llama, fa. Siewarda sod other
storm In Zak far bowed rammisratim to amerdate sellators ;
from • pats Is tont. Mr random In taw of atesamg. Mr. 8.
Cum-rows lin erllsseto Gera, meaty Wads* he Amor of
• "mat apt. Mr. IL Ines lartherapica, le lad stop to
twareels Metillata. (A ) Mr. *Ma; tram Trford, for
War aplaiee 'labe@ d "Man. Mr. W. IL O'Hannt,
fromadwor oarektn. d lavag agebed of their
Hitt; as • Whit to =ale Ork par against the
rears af as dasentel, against
.allstslias la an Odle. Ilref=leaboatm
Dreilares, le the amnia of Imo ; Boteodole,
casne
DaaY~ ad lakdalak_la all frail of Sella ; honk Linton
sad Dada; ; bun Dararrbr tad Menforth, In
the county "CT.& from lama Y
law Isatealtko ; !o Cappereleag.
Stem. ; trove Haft* Arlin; Nowak ; tram • sews.
soden Is la art tom Ile earkel eisseeka OM-
mittee of tbe °aunty at Oreadeeph agate Ile govenaset edam of

—War ILLOINGS.—ettes tirt Pawnll ; Illotims at Sol-
dier; daft Parliamentary Illullies; LEM Improve-
rEClßM. DLN GS. —Dealings at Lank; Anal Ihnise of Boys;
Naval F, •; NI&
COMITTILL—Harboora, Docks. Sr., Crum BBL
THIRD 111ADINO.—Commtes Mamma (No. 1) 1/L
NOTICE Of MOTION.-.-Amer limvica HOVILLD
Dotor-m, or madoe tor going Into committee on Mb hilt to move
that It be semi/red that day aim months.
FLOGGING IN HONG HONG.

Dr. BOWlElRDiigisiied;heTtiei tieCoionial-office had
received any official accounts of the discontinuance of the
practice of flogging in the oniony of Hong Kong
Mr. HAWES replied that the government had received
no accounts to that effect ; but they had reason to hope that
a great amelioration would take place in the administration
of the criminal law in Hong Kong.
PENSION TO SOLDIERS.
. .

Colonel REID asked the Secretary at War whether it
was the intention of her Majesty's government to advise her
Majesty to mire the present rate of pension to the soldiers of
the British army contemporsneously with the pairing of the
Limited Service Bill into law ; and if so, in what manner, and
at what periods of service ?
Mr. F. MAULS said it was not the intention of govern-
ment so alter the present rate of pension.
IRISH CHURCH REVEN U ES PRE SENTATION