The Express.
London, England, 1851-05-21 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MAY 21, 1851.

ter the elision eta sew member for the borough of Ear-
wish, in the MN et Mr. Prinsep, unseated.
NOT IRISH
P 0111(0TION. •
OOR.
Mr. REYNOLDS pa motile that on Thursday, the sth
of June, he would move at an Walesa be presented to her
Majesty graying that she would appoint a commission to
inquire into and report upon the administration of the
laws for the relief of the destitute poor in Munster sag
Connaught.
THE BALLOT.
Mr. H. BERKELEY postponed hie motion on this sub=
)set till the hth of Jane.
ADMISSION TO THE UNIVERSITIES.
Mr. HEYWOOD gave notice that on the sth of June he
would make a motion with regard to the qualifications for
Siatinits to the univetsities of Oxford and Cambridge.
THE ADJOURNMENT.
Major BERESFORD rose, in pursuance of notice, to
move that the house should, at its rising, adjourn till
Thanday. The house had adjourned for the three last
and he saw no mason why it should not do so again.
=eking at the paper he saw no business of importance,
sal iris only order of the day was the Derby. (Laughter.)
that the house would adjourn, not only fur its
ma mike, but for the sake of its officers; and an additional
mesa for doing so was to be found in the fact that her
Majesty's birthday fell this year on a Saturday, and that
they would thus be deprived of the usual holiday on that
account. (Laughter.)
On the question being put,
Mr. HL-ME said he thought it would be a great derelic-
tion of duty to accede to the motion. (Cries of Olt, oh.")
His opposition for the last two years had not been attended
with success. (Hear, hear.) But they hail something
novel this year. It was too much that everything should
be expected to give place to horse•racing and horsemen.
(Laughter.) Since last year the horsemen had token
Kensington Gardens, and therefore what was a reasonable
demand last year might be an unreasonable one this year.
(Laughter.) Ile wanted tomorrow, for the purpose of
ascertaining from the First Commissioner of NVoods and
Forests who were the applicants to him fur the di.continii-
ance of the state of things which had existed in Kensington
Gardens for a century. He wished to know whether the
noble lord had made the dosage of his own accord, or whe-
ther R was the result of a petition from the equestrians
themselves. Ile would nut put the house to the trouble of
dividing—(hear, hear.).--but he must say, that though he
had no objection to the horsemen going to the Derby, he
strongly ohjecto.l to their running to Kensington Gardens.
Sir J. l'A I SGTON wished, in the spirit of fairness and
just-ie., and as one of the public, to tender his thanks to the
noble lord for the accommodation which he had extended to
those who, like the hon. member for Montrose, were fond
of taking exercise on horseback. (" Hear, hear," and
laughter.) If the hon. member would ride in Kensington
Gardens, he would find that the indulgence was not at-
tended with the slightest income Wince to those who walked
there. Hundreds of acres remained unencroached upon.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. W. I'ATTEN wished to bear similar testimony, and
to add that those who were thus accommodated were much
more numerous than those sum could possibly be incom-
moded. The indulgence was only to last incl year.
Lord SEYNIOUIt said there was only one point on
which he wished to set the hon. member for Montrose •
right. The hon. member said " See how many persons
you exclude fru:u these gardens." Nuw, in the memorial
which the lion. member forwarded to him, the object of
which was to keep the gardens closed, the great argument
urged against the opening of them was, that it would
attract a crowd of spectators, and the memorial went on to
say It will be impossible then to shut out the great
public from the amusement of witnessing the display of
horses soil horsemanship which is so interesting to our
countrymen." (Laughter.) 'the House of Commons,
which represented the great public, was called upon
to take their part against the honourable member,
who was unfortunately in this case the represen-
tative of the aristocracy of Bayswater. (Laughter.)
The hon. member had told the house that this was nn in-
novation. Why, what had he been doing all his life but
making and encouraging innovation*? (" Hear, hear,"
and laughter.)
Sir E. N. BUXTON wished to bear his testimony as one
who was in the habit of walking awl riding in Hyde l'ark,
to the great improvement which had kit n made. The real
truth was, that his hon. friend (Mr. Hume) was a sup-
porter of a great monopoly. Certain persmie who lived in
the neighbourhoed of Kensington had wished to make the
gardens their private property; and the hon. member fur
Montrose had the audatity— ,laughter)—to propose that a
ride should be made through Hyde Park, where there were
twenty times as many pedestrians as in Kensington Oardens.
(Laughter.)
The motion was then agreed to.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND).
Mr. REYNOLDS, pursuant to notice, begged to ask the
Chief Secretary for Ireland, whether he was aware that the
number of inmates in the Ennis, Union Workhouse, county
of Clare, the week ending the 3rd day of May instant was
915, and the &nth+ during that week a.nounted w RI, and
that the workhouse was so overcrowded, that several appli-
cant/4 were refused admission.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE replied that the hon. gentleman
had correctly stated the number of deaths during the week
ending the ard of May, in the Ennis workhouse, but he had
greatly mistaken the number of inmates, which, instead of
being 918, as the hon. gentleman stateti, had been in the
RAMC week 4,782, and the latest report he had seen from
that workhorse gave an elms of 123 is the number of in-
mates.
DESTITUTION IN THE ISLANDS OF SCOTLIND

the Ter agent tire* 0.146.11•4110.000 acawida had laim E'lla I
12,000 free people had been '
11l It anuthDiemanin
% oosmoureee's ECM. The The criminal ?ovulation had
incecased, so that in 1857, according to the eon- I
it a peered that two-thirds of the Whole popula-
ZAeon . These fact* bore out the lint
allegation of the petitioners, that the evils resulting from
transportation to the colony were 'waling. He would next
time Ile the second allegation, that the lieutenant-governor,
ffir W. Denison, did announce to the colonists, on the part
of elhe weeleamt, tb,t tr_ansertation to Van Diemen's
Lai be MIONIMIMIL Transportation thither was
raspouded for are pus, sad on the 30th September, 1846,
the noble lord the Candid Secretary transmitted to Sir W.
Denison his appointment as lientenant.goventor, with a
letter of instruction, leaving two questions for conside-
ration, whether transportation should be resumed at
all, and, if at all, whether any more male convicts
should be sent to Van Diemen's Land. Sir W.
1 Denison arrived at the beginning of 1547, and issued a
circular to the magistrates to ascertain the opinions
of the colonists. The colonists, en moue answered the
circular by declaring that transportation should altogether
cease. A public meeting, the largest ever held in the
colony, was held on the 6th May, 1847 ; petitions to her
Majesty and to both houses of parliament were agreed to,
praying that transportation to Van Diemen's Land should
be immediately abolished; each ofthese petitions was signed
by above 5,000 free colonists. At the same time 726 parents,
representing at least 3,500 souls, addressed her Majesty on
behalf of their children, stating that no vigilance nor care-
ful instruction could counteract the mischievous and con-
taminating influence of convict example. In transmitting
these addresses to Lord Grey, Sir W. Denison assured the
noble lord that the feeling of the great majority of tho
community was in favour of the cessation of transportation.
Having thus ascertained the feelings of the colony Sir Wil-
liam Denison, on opening the legielative council on the 20th
July, 1847, said, " I take the earliest opportunity of laying
before you the decision of her Majesty's government, that
transportation to Van Diemen's Land should slot be resumed
at the expiration of the two years for which it has already been
decided that it should be discontinued. her Majesty's go-
vernment, in coming to this determination, has acted in ac-
cordance with the expressed wishes of a large portion of the
free inhabitants of the colony; " and Sir William Denison
concluded his address by saying that he trusted they would
not be " cast down should a period of adversity and distress
follow the change which they had so ardently desired."
Great was the joy of the inhabitants of Van Diemen's
Land on receiving this announcement. The gentlemen
most active in getting up the meeting and petitions against
transportation wrote to Lord Grey thanking him for antici-
pating their praying, and declaring that they were convinced
that " to no one could the best interests of the colony, moral or
political, be more safely entrusted than to the noble lord."
That Sir William Denison considered that he had
pledged the faith of the imperial government was proved
by his despatch of August, 1817, in which he declared
to the Colonial Secretary that any attempt to revive trans-
portation to the colony in any form would be regarded by
the coloniste as a breach of taith and that, under all the
circumstances, it would be desirable to carry out fully the
abolition of transportation thither. This despatch (said
Sir William Moleeworth) proved that Sir Mr. Denison
did consider that he had pledged the imperial faith to the
abolition of transportation to an Diemen's Land. Now I
have Wan' rumours of iwinuations to the effect that Sir
William Denison was not authorised to give that pledge;
sad it is reported that the noble lord the Secretary of State
be the colonies has iu another place laid the grounds for
such insinuations, by quoting an isolated extract from a
letter written by the right hon. baronet the Secretary of
State for the Home Department. Ido not know whether
such quibbles will he repeated tonight; if they arc I shall
have an opportunity to answer them in my reply. For the
present, I challenge the hon. gentleman the Under Secre-
tary of State for the Colonies to prove that Sir William
Denison exceeded his authority. if Sir Wm. Denison did
exceed his authority, it was the duty of the Colonial-office to
have publicly disavowed him, awl to have reprimanded, or
even recall,) him, for haver; pledged the imperial With to
a promise which was not to be performed. But nothing of
the kind was done. It was first in his despatch of the 20th
August, 1011, that Sir W. Denison informed the Colonial-
°film that he had announced the abolition of transportation
to Van Diemen's Land, and that to revive that system in
any form would be a breach of faith. This despatch was
received at the Colonial-office un the sth Feb., 1818. Its
receipt was acknowledged on the 27th April, 1548. Then,
if ever, was the time when the Colonial-office ought to have
publicly disowned the proceeding, of Sir Wm. Denison, and
reprimanded him if he had exceeded his authority. The
Colonial-office did nothing of the kind, but merely acknow-
ledged the valuable information contained in Sir Win. Deni-
son'. despatch. 1 beg the house to observe, that on the same
occasion Lord Orel announced that he intended to resume
transportation to Van Dienseies Land, and thus to do the
very thing that his governor bad promised that the noble
, lord should not do. Theretore, on making this announe'-
ment, the time it ever was some when Lord Grey should,
if he could, have disavowed the proceedings of his governor.
For by not disavowing them, the noble lord extetwil him-
self
to a charge of breach of faith treat which he could
only vindicate himself by proving that he had publicly dis-
avowed his governor. For it is an acknowledged rule of
governmeat, without which, iu fact, no government could
be carried on, that the acts of an inferior officer must lee
held to be done with the sanction of his superior officer,
and to be the acts of the superior officer, unless the superior
officer publicly disavow those acts as soon as they come to
his knowledge. It follow., therefore, that the colouial
office did not disavow the proceedings of Sir William
Denison, because it - not able so to do with
. _

spore s
It. reply to Mr. Cowa's,
Sir G. GREY said that, in consequence of represen-
tations made to him of great destitution existing in these
islands in the early. part of the year, Sir John
I.ll'Ned undertook to visit that district. lie did so, and
bad been occupied for some time in a tour of inspection ;
and, having returned, 1w war now preparing a report,
which he (Sir G. Grey) expected soon to receive from him.
Sir John M'Seil had, however, given him no intinustion
that he had received any evidence of persons hasise.: died
of starvation. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the actual
state of the district he would rather nut express any opinion
until he saw the report.
MURDER I/E A BRITISH OFFICER AT Al/EN.
Viscount MAHON asked it government had received in-
formation of the murder of a British officer at Aden, and
more recently of an attack made upon another officer, evi-
dently with the intention of murdering him ?
Mr. J. WILSON said it wan quite true that information
bed been reeviv.l by the mail of last month of the murder
of an officer at Aden, and the last mail contained an account
of another attack ou a British officer there ' • but the circum-
stances attending that attack were not such as to induce Cie
authorities or the government to attach any political im-
portance to it. The facts, as stated, were that an officer,
Mr. Delieer,while riding out on horseback in the outer fort
near the Turkish wall, on the afternoon named,
being at the time not in regimentals, but private
clothes, was beckoned to by an Arab. Supposing the man
wanted to speak to him, he pulled up his horse, when the
Arab approached and attacked him with a crease which
bad been conceal.' about his person. Mr. 1) liner was die.-
mounted and a desperate condict ensued, which ended in
Ow death of the Arab, who was cut down, and afterward.,
Ma body WAS brought into the camp and gihbetted. It was
oanliory to the regulations for any Arab to cuter the fort
nomad. and there wadno doubt that the weapon was cons
IMMei when he came in. As he had said, there was
MD fur attaching any political motive to the act,
there wan every reason to believe had resulted from
notigions fanaticism.
TRANSPORTATION TO VAN DIEMEN'S LAND.
Sir W. MOLESWOItTiI, in bringing forward his motion
for an address on this subject, said have lately pre-
sented to the house two important petitions for the aboli-
tion of transportation to Van Diemen 's Laud. They were
unanimously agreed to at uurnerously attended public meet-
ings, which were held last year in the northern, southern,
and central districts of that island. Similar petitions have
been presented to the other house of parliament, and similar
ones have been addressed to her Majesty the Queen. The
statements contained in these petitions were of so grave and
serious a description, and rested upon such high and trust-
worthy authority, that I felt it my dutto move that these have petitions, and all similar ones, which been presented
since the year 1838, should be printed, in order that I might
bring their contents under the consideration of the house. I
find that these petitions have been most numerously and re-
spectably signed,—for instance, by the Bishop of Tasmania,
by the Archdeacon of Launceston and Hobart Town, by
the majority of the clergy of the Church of England, of the
ministers of the Wesleyan. preebyterian, baptist, sod nide-
peneleat denominations, the magistracy, the gentry, the
merchants, tradesmen, mechanics, fathers and mothers of

was _ cote so consistently
truth. Aud 1 must obserre that the colonial office has ex-
pressed emphatic approval of the general c nehiet of Sir
William Denison, and in a despatch dated April 28, 1819,
assured hien that his administration had been such as to
merit her Majesty's high approbation." Such high appro-
bation cannot be reconciled with the sappersition that Sir
William Denison had committed so grave a blunder as to
pledge the imperial faith to the abolition of transportation
without authority to do so. I think these faets fully bear
out the ',omit allegation of the bishop, the clergy, and the
free colonists of Tasmania, that their governor did pledge
the imperial faith to the abolition of transportation to Van
Dismen's Land. I now come to the third allegation
that up to the present moment this promise has not been
Walled. and that its non-fulfilment is a direct breach of
faith derogatory to the honour of the British nation, and
'deviated to weaken, if not to destroy, the feelings of con-
McGee and attachment which Van Diemen's Land has
hitherto entertained towards the imperial government. The
first and meat flagrant attempt at a breach of faith occurred
about the close of the year 1847. It was resisted and de-
feated by Sir William Denham. I wiU, however, describe
this attempt. There was in New South Wales a class of
wwivicts " worse (according to Sir William Denison) than
the worst of those on Northlk Island." Now everyone
Whose painful duty it has been to make himself acquainted
with the state of Norfolk Island was wont to eon-
skier that the worst convicts there were the foulest
and most loathsome fiends of the human race; in-
animate demons for whom even Dante could have
hand no abyss low euough in his hell of horrors.
What, then, must have been these worse devils of New
South Wales ? The Colonial-office ou the 4th May, 1817,
ordered them to be transported to Van Diemen's Lind.
This order was issued only three months after the day (eltli
Feb., 1817), on which Lord Grey wrote to Sir William
Denison that it was not the intention of her :Majesty's go-
verment that trausportation to Van Iliemen's Land should
M resumed. When the order of the Colonial-office to trans-
port to Van Diemen's Land the doubly and trebly convicted
wonviets of New South Wales because known, the inhabit-
ants of Van Diemen's Land were horror-stricken ; u public
wonting was held, two memorials were addressed to the
Queen signed by. 5,131 persons, complaining of a manifest
lotanch of faith, and praying that the order in question might
be revoked. In transmitting these memorials Sir William
Denison recommended the prayer of the petitioners to the
favourable consideration of the noble lord, the Secretary of
Mate fur the Colonies; and in the same despatch, dated
December, 1317, Sir William Denison made the just
remark that the colonists would complain of a breach of
faith towards them .in promising that no more convicts
should be sent to the colony, whilst, at the same
time, a number of the worst description were poured
upon them. Ultimately Sir William Denison maintained
faith in this instance by disobeying the orders of the Colo-
nial-otfice and not transporting the convicts from New
South Wales to Van Diemen's Land. The neat attempt
at a breach of faith was more successful. In a despate't
to which I have already referred, dated April 27, 18th
Lord Grey announced his determination to resume trans-
portation to Van Diemen's Land in the form of the
ticket-of-leave-system. Now, the ticket-of leave system
doe, not necessarily herd convicts together as tae
the -

families, and in short bp, almost every me of note PM system nor does it isolate convict, as
and respectability among the free colonists of Van Die. was the case under the best form of the assignment
men's Land. All these petitioners allege " that accumulated system ; but it leaves the convict to a considerable
and appalling evils—moral, political, and social—have re- extent at liberty to associate with those persons
stilted hum transportation to Van Diemen'. Land," that whom he likes or who will associate with him.
the exinence of such evils have been admitted to the fullest Unfortunately, however, in Van Diemen's Land the Fer-
niest% her Majesty's ministers, and the free colonists sons with whom the ticket of leave convict can associate Are
of V 's Laud have repeatedly petitioned the Queen chiefly ticket of leave men or persons who have been con-
tend t that transportation to their colony should vino, tint, because the felonry, as they are called, celesti-
al. mod for ever. Every one of these petitioners tate the majority of the poputation ; secondly, because the
emelt that on the 20th July, 1847, their governor, Sir free settler will not associate with the felonry, whom they
William Denison did announce, in the name of her Ma- despise as a Pariah caste, with feelings similar to, but more in-
jesty's government, to the Legislative Council of Van Die- tense, than those of the Americans towards the negro. Now
men's Land, that the wishes of the colonists were to be the invariable consequence of the association of convicts is
implied with, and transportation was to be abolished, to harden the corrupt in corruption, and to lead back to
They also state that notwithstanding this announcement crime those who have been partially reformed; therefore,
transportation has been continued up to the present if convicts be rent in crowds to a penal colony, it matters
mummati and the bishop, the clergy, and all the free role- little to the colony, as far as morality is concerned, what
disks cf immune declare that " the non-fulfilment of this form of transportation be adopted, provided it be not the
premiss is a breach of faith, derogatory to the honour worst form of the gang system. This was the opinion
of the British nation, and calculated to weaken, if not to of the transportation committee. It was also the opinion
the feelings of wittidenec and attachment which of Sir William Denison, who said, with regard to exiles
Vaa • n's Land has hitherto entertained towards the from Pentonville (who are supposed to be the best docrip-
imperial government." (Hear, hear.)_ They solemnly pro. Lion of convicts), their moral conduct will not be much
test against this breach of faith. They indignantly con. better than that of other convicts, and will be just as likely
tradiet a statement, said to have been made last year by a to taint the whole community. On the sth of February,
noble earl in another place, to the effect, that they had be. 1847, Lord Grey wrote to inform Sr William Denison
come lees averse to transportation than they were in 1846. that "it was not the intention of her Majesty's
They mare the house that they are still utterly hostile to government that transportation to Van Diemen's Land
the reception of convict. under any rotcm. They, there- should be resumed. Some time afterwards Lord
hoe, claim the fulfilment of the imperial promise, and Grey changed his mind, and, disregang the
pray the house to enforce the performance of that promise which he knew had been made by Sir William
as speedily as possible. They have also addressed her the noble lord, 011 the 27th April,ll 1848, wrote, as I have
Majesty for the abolition of transportation to Van Diemen's already said, a despatch 'anemone that exiles and ticket.
Land. The hon. member then went OR to state the grounds of-leave convicts, after their punishment in Pentonville,
on which these petitioners rested their allegations, and on Gibraltar, and elsewhere, were to be transported aollectively
which he asked the house to most to motion. In 1847 to Van Diemen", Land. This det;a:Mwas laid on the
a committee of the house was appointed to inquire into the table of the Legislative Council of the colony on the 12th
question of transportation, and they agreed that am evils September, 1848. From that period up to the present
arising ham the • of a large number cinema moment there has been a series of public meetings, ad.
and the disproportion o Use sexes, were of the most appall. dresses to her Majesty, petitions to both houses of win-
ing kind, and seek as outweighed all lucrative gain to the molt, gemoriais to the Colonial-office, memorials to the
colonists ; and they therefore recommended that colonla governor, and proton and remonstelnees against
non to Van Diemsa's Load sad to New South Wales should transportation, showing a ttnennaoso, energetic, and
discontinued as soon as peen . Tom the you 1840 to dogged determination to •sel the Colonial-office

to beep faith by discontinuing transportation. The
bon. baronet at some length enumerated the varioas
addremes, protests, and appeals, mode to the Queen, to
both houses of parliament, and to the lieutenant-ge-
-1 venter, by the leatslative council, by the magistrates, bythe
I inh►bitants, and the women of the colony. The Colonial
Secretary had stated that the government thought it
necessary to make arrangements to send free emigrants
to neutralise the convict population ; but the free emi-
grants amounted to only one-fourth of the convicts. In
1850, said the hon. member, an event occurred which
doubled the excitement in Van Diemen's Laud against

e---
transportation. It was the arrival at Ilubart Town of the
ship Neptune with its cargo of convicts, which the colony
of the Cape had rejected. This event produced the deepest
indignation amongst the colonists of Van Dienten's Land.
They looked upon it as an insult as well as
an injury, They bad heard of the circular which
had been issued by the Colonial-office 7th August, 1848, to
the Cape of Good llope, New South Wake, and the other
Australian colonies, with the exception of Van Diemen's
Land. In that circular the Colonial-office had laid down
the rule that no convicts were to be transported to any one
of those colonies without the consent rat their inhabitants.
Van Diemen's Land had been excepted from that rule, on
the special plea that it was a penal colony. Its inhabitants
held that plea to be a most unjust and tyrannical one; for
they argued that the only difference between their colony
and New South Wales had been occasioned by is breach of
faith on the part of the Colonial-office in not fulfilling the
promise to abolish transportation; and that, if that promise
had been fulfilled, transportation could not have been re•
mused in opposition to their wishes without a viola-
tion of the rule laid down by the Colonial-office.
The arrival of the Neptune showed them how
successfully the colony of the Cape had resisted an attempt
to violate that rule and gave them ocular demonstration of
two important facts—first, that it was the deliberate inten-
tion of the Colonial-office to make their colony a huge cess-
pool, in which all the criminal filth of the British empire
wets to be accumulated ; secondly, that it was in the power
of the people of a colony by combinating vigour and self-
reliance to defeat the intentions of the Colonial-office, and
to compel it to keep faith. I am convinced that the arrisal
of the Neptune will hereafter be a memorable epoch in the
history of the abolition of transportation to Van Diemen's
Lend. The free colonists immediately protested aeninst
the landing of the cons hes from that ship. 'They have
made similar protests' on the arrival of every sitheequent
convict ship, and with every protest their anger was
increased, till their *reel was incensed to the highest
degree by the arrival of the report of a speech
said to have been delivered last year by the
noble lord the Secretary of State for the Colonies in another
place. In that speech the noble lord was reported to have
expressed himself to the effect that the imperial government
had created the colony of Van Diemen's Land fur convicts,
that the free settlers had established themselves there with
their eyes open to the present state of things, and had no
right to complain. At all their public meetings they have
denied the accuracy of that statement •, they said that they
haul emigrated to Van Diemen's Land before it had been
made the sole penal whiny of Englund; that the imperial
government had encouraged them to emigrete, and sold
them lands, and by so doing it had entered into a tacit com-
pact with them that it would not so abuse its power of
transportation as to drive out the free inhabitante
and render the possession of their lambs intolerable.
In the same speech the noble earl was reported to have said
that the free colonists had become less :averse to transporta-
tion than they were in 1847. They has e flatly enntradieted
the liable earl; they asserted that the noble lord, like his
preflecesor, Lord Stanky, was ignorant of the state of the
colony, that living on the opposite of the globe, he was
liable to be misinformed by officials, who hare a deep pecu-
niary interest in the continuance of transportation, whiles(
salaries depended upon upholding transportition, and who
boldly invented and repeated fictions, knowing almost a
veer must elapse before they could be contradicted. Sir, a..
1 have already said. the bishop, the clergy, and
the free colonists of Tasmania, have declared, in con-
tradiction of the statement of Lord Grey, that they arc
utterly hosti:e to receiving convicts under ally system;
and with the view of proving Lord Grey's assertion to be
erroneous, in each of the three districts of the colony
large public meetings were held lent autumn. First, on the
9th August last, in the northern district ; from this meeting
I have presented this year a petition with 1,519 signatures,
including those of the Bishop of Tasmania and the Arch-
deacon of Launceston. Secondly, on the 12th September,
a meeting was held in the south district, from which
I have presented this year a petition with 2,625
signatures. 'Thirdly, on the 17th September, a
meeting was held in the central district, from which
a memorial was addressed to Earl Grey. At one of these
meetings Mr. Weston, a justice of the peace, a well known
and respectable gentleman. one of the oldest settlers in Van
Diemen's Land, moved a resolution contradicting the state-
ment that they had beeeine reconciled to transportation. In
so doing he drew, amidst the cheers of the meeting, a strik-
ieg picture of the social state of the colony. lie spoke to
this elL'et I think, that generally noble lords
and English gentlemen know nothing about the state of our
colony. It has occurred to me that if they could have the
subject practically elucidated to them in their own persons
and families, they nould immediately understand why we
are so utterly hostile to receiving consists under ally system.
Were I in England and had a talk with any Engles!'
gentleman about transportation to Von Diemen's Laid, I
would endeavour to make hint realise our condition by
placing himself and family in a position similar to that of
respectable funnies in this colony. I would say to him
allow me to propose that you should remove your family
from Belgravia to the worst part of St. Giles, where thieves,
burglars, prostitutes, and all kind., of infamous characters
abound. You shall have a cuntmodiousllolM, comfortable
carriages, plenty of servants, a governess for your deughters,
a tutor fur your sons, and a secretary for yourself, but you
must select every one of your attendants front the popula-
tion of St. Giles. Then the lowest prostitutes would be
your housemaids and nurserymaids—from the flesh women
you might select your ladies' maids—a cast-off mistress
would be an accomplished governess for your daughters—
you might fill your pantry and your stables with burglars,
thieves. and pickpockets—a Greek, well versed iu all the
art. and vices of Greece, would be ready to accept the
office of tutor to your sons—and you might complete your
establishment with a secretary so skilful as t.) save you the
trouble of writing your name to a cheque—and then you
would have a tip-top establishment alter the fashion of
Van Diernen's Land. (Laughter and cheers.) I think,
said Mr. Weston, English gentlemen would look rather
amued at such a proposal, and that a slight taste of trans-
portation would destroy their taste for transportation." I
entreat hon. members to endeavour to place themselves
mentally in the position of Mr. Weston before they give
their vote to-night, and they will well understand why the
bishop, the clergy, the fathers and mothers of fa-
milics in Van Diemen's Land are so utterly hos-
tile to tho continuance of transportation to that colony.
Front these meetings there emanated petitions to the other
house of parliament, and addresses to the Queen. I began
by stating to the house the contents of those petitions, and
the weave and serious allegations which they contained, and
which 1 have endeavoured to substantiate; l will only there-
fore call the attention of the house to two addresses to the
Queen, which are not contained in the papers on the table
of the house—one signed by the wife of the Bishop of
Tasmania, and 1,400 women of Van Diemen's L 2114. They
appealed as wives, mother., and daughters, to her 31ajesty s
maternal sympathy, seedier, "That in the course of the last
ten years 30,000 prisoners had been boded in the
colony, which contained 20,000 young persons, the
greater portion of whom were under fourteen years
of age." The other address was from the bishop, arch-
deacons and clergymen of the United Church of England
and Ireland in Tasmania. 'this deserves the especial atten-
tion of the house for the noble lord relied mainly on the
clergy to_give efficacy to this sheltie of transportation ; they
have assbred her 2ifijesty that the majority of all classes in
Van Diemen's Land are opposed to transportation ; " that
' convicts can no longer be introduced into the colony with
real advantage to themselves or to the community ; ' that
" any lucrative return to he derived from convict labour is
' beyond calculation outweighed by the frightful evils of the
convict system ; " and they have earnestly prayed her Ma-
jesty on behalf of those for whim they are put in charge to
discontinue transportation to Van Diemen's Land. At all
the meetings to which I have just referred resolutions were
agreed to in favour of an anti-transportation league.
The hon. member went on to contend that a multiplicity of
evils, both material and moral, flowed from the influx of
transperted convicts—interference with the market of free
labour, demoralisation of feeling in society, and a fearful
prevalence of atrocious crimes. Sir W. Molesworth then
said, Sir, if we continue much longer to transport convicts
to Van Diemen's Land, we shall be able to add to our na-
tional exhibition an unrivalled specimen of u red criminal
republic, with liberty for crime, equality in infamy,
and fraternity in vice. Not content with Van
Diemen's Land, the felonry have migrated in shoals
to the continent of Australia. There they pursue
their old professions—the thief thieves, the burglar
commits burglaries, the swindler swindles, and each after
his habits indulges in his vicious propensities. The presence
of these persons in the Australian colonies affords the only
explanation of the otherwise inexplicable fact, that in these
coloaies, where the economical causes of crime scarcely ex-
ist, the proportion of crime to population is greeter than in
old countries where the economical causes of crime are most
potent. It is an unquestionable fact, that almost al the
crime committed in the Australian colonies is committed by
persons who have been transported from this country. The
courts of justice of New South Wales, Victoria, South Aus-
tralia, and New Zealand, are filled with these persons. The
legislature of New South Wales attempted to protect that
colony against the expirees from Van Diemen's Land, by
certain police regulations called the Vagrancy Act. That
act the Colonial-office has vetoed, to the intense disgust of
the people of New South Wales, because it tended to pre-
vent the free circulation of free criminals throughout Aus-
tralia. The governor of New Zealand has asserted that
the greater portion of the large amount of crime
in that colony is committed by expirces. Thus,
sir, the foul stream of crime rising in England,
at first somewhat purified by passing through Pentonville
and other penitentiaries, heeeesee foul again as it flows
through the public soils at Gibraltar, and elsewhere, then
traverses the moral swamps of Van Diemen's Land, acquir-
ingcontinent freak corruption, and pours its fetid waters over the
e I sit down,ofA"tnili I w henwish ceittaopestilential
es ex
onequestion to exhalation
the
?meth New Zealand and the remotest isles of Polynesia.
house and to her Majesty's ministers. Last year o y u gave
representative institutions and self-government to Van Die-
men's Land. What did you mean by so doing ? How did
you mean that the inhabitants of that colon should govern
t.hemeelves you mean that they should govern them-
selves in the manner which they &ink best for their in ems, or in the manner which you think best for the ter-
eats of this cousta7 ? (Bear, hear Now, inter-
ow, on the subject
of transporenties, there is a conflict between the alleged in-
, terser of this celesta" and those of Van Diemen's Land.

You think that it is for your interest to transport your con-
victs to Van Diemcn's Land, and to cast forth your crimi-
nal filth on Van lieiten's Land. 'fhe inhabitants of that
colony think that it is fur their interest not to receive your
felons, and to coetinne to be your cesspool. Which of
these two interests ought the representatives of the inha-
bitants of Van Diem:l..' Laud to prefer? Oaght they to
prefer the interests of their own constituents or of your con-
stituents ? They will without doubt prefer the interests of
their own constituents. They are bound to do so by every
recognised principle of constitutional government. They
will do so. I believe not one man will b.-, elected a member
of the House of Assembly of Van Diemen's Land who its
not pledged to resist transportation by. every means in his
power. What will you do? Discontinue transportation,
or repeal the constitution of Von Diemen's Land ? You must
do one of these two things. For free institutions and trans-
portation cannot co-exist in Van Diemen's Land, as long as
the feelings of the inhabitants of that colony are such as
they are at present. I beg the house to observe that the
question upon which I ask fur a decision to-night is not
wh. thee there shall or shall not be such a punishment as
transportation ; upon that question I have repeatedly ex-
pressed opinions which are unchanged. The question for
the house is not whether any mare convicts shall be trans-
ported to any colony, but whether any more convicts shall
be transported to Van Diemen's Land without the consent
of its inhabitants. Yon bare laid down the rule with re-
gard to your southern colonies, that no convicts shall be
sent to any one of them without its consent. You say that
Van I)icmen's Land shall be the one exception to that rule,
that you created that colony for convicts, that it has been,
is, and shall continue to be, a penal colony. Then I say
you have committed an act of insanity in giving them free
institutions, and arming thesis with the best weapons to
resist your will. I therefore call upon you to keep faith with
them, and to extend to them the rule that no convict., shall
be transported to them without their consent. It ap-
pears to me that it would be not only just but wise
and prudent to take steps to bring about a+ speedily
as possible the discontinuance of transportation to Van
Diemeu's Land. I exhort and wart/ the house to
suffer no delay in this matter if you hold dear
our Australasian dependencies. For many years I have
taken the deepest interest in the :dfairs of those colonies. I
am convinced that they are amonost the most valuable of
our colonial possession*, the priceless jewt I in the diadem of
our colonial empire. I believe they can be easily retained
with a little common sense and judgment on our part ; that
well governed they would cost us nothing, but offer us daily
improving markets for our industry, fields for the employ-
ment of our labour and capital, and happy. homes for our
surplus population. That Australian empire is in peril
from the continuance of transportation to Van Dienien's
Land, and therefore I move that " .‘n addreas be press atop
to her Majesty in council prayilor fur the discontinuance of
transportation to Van Diemen's Land." (The lion. baronet
resumed his seat amidst loud cheers.)

Sir G. GREY said the greater part of the arguments
adduced by the hon. gentleman applied to transportation to
every other colony as well as Van Dienten's Land, and, if
the house was induced by them to sanction the general dis-
continuance of transportation, they would have to
decide what should be done with our criminals.
The right honourable gentleman then said—Sir,
I will nut go at large into this question. I nssume, from
his speech, that the hon. baronet is not preparal to advo-
cate the discontinuance of transport turn as a system of
punishment ; but again I must amnia the house, before
they decide on this specific question, to bear in mind its
relation to the general question to which I have just ad-
verted—to bear in mind the opinions repeatedly expressed
and repeatedly disapproved of by this house with reference
to the discontinuance of transportation —to bear
in mind the opinions expressed in the year 1817, when a
committee was appointed, who paid great attention to this
subject, and who, in their report, stated it as their belief
that it was essential there should be an ultimate removal
of criminals from the, country to distant colonies. (lime.)
The report of the committee states that the system of trans-
portation is a system which it is esseetial to retain as a
means whereby offenders against the laws, and having un-
dergone a certain amount of punishment in this country,
may be enabled to continence a new career in a new
land with those eltanass of obtaining an honest live-
which the competition in the labour market
at home and the consequent indisposition to em-
ploy any persons suffering from the stigma of a great
crime, effectually closed to them here. And the committee
go on to state that the question for consideration then
is, whether transportation might not be continued to the
colonies, relieved from the danger of producing those social
evils which had hitherto been four Ito follow it. Subse-
quently to this report the question ho, frequently more before
the Rona,. of Commons ; and although there have been no ac-
tual votes taken, the opinion of the house hail Ma a uniformly
expressed to the effect that transportation—that is
to my. not the system carried on up to the
time when the report of the c nuinittee appeared,
or even up to 181 g. but meaning the ultimate removal from
this country of consists condemned for a certain class of
offences, and after having undergone u system of penal dis- :
cipline here—was absolutely essential, both a, a anemia of
relieving this country from the disastrous evils which have
been found to arise in other countries as a consequence of
the accumulation of a large number of criruinals, who
could not be maintained in a state of perpetual imprison-
ment, and who, left to themselves, could not obtain a live-
lihood otherwise than by falling bark into crime—and am,
in itself, an essential element in the question ,1 punish-
ment, lasing the holding out to criminals of the deterring
prospect of expatriation. But with regard to the
narrower question raised by the hoe. gentleman,
with regard to Van Diemen's Land, I ant at once ready to
admit to the hon. gentleman, for I will not waste the tins,
of the house by contending in detail against the evidence
which has now been adduced, that there has latterly lien,
and that there is a very general desire among the inhabit.'
ants of Van Diemen's Land fur the discontinuance of trails-
p
ortation under any circumstances whatever. (1LaL,..1
rhe hon. gentleman has adverted to the pstitions add
to this house and to her Majesty from different classes in
Van Dietnen's Lead, some of the persons signing those peti-
tions being persons whose sentiments are entitled to the
greatest attention, and all praying that no more ernivirts
under any circumstances shall be sent to that co-
lony in which they live. Now, in referring to
those petitions, I must say that in many eases the
statements they contain arc grossly exaggerated, and that,
in fact, justice is not done to the oniony, if we arc to accept
such statements as core et with regard to the general condi-
tion of the colony, and to the exact results of the system of
transportation of late years. But I clear the ground in
making, at once, the udnxission that there exists a general
desire, in the colony for the abolition of transportation. The
hon. gentleman, in making this motion, chiefly relies on an
alleged promise of the government given some years ago,
that transportation to Van Diemen's Land should cease
altogether. On this supposed promise he grounds his mo-
tion; and I will comesle that if the faith of the
government had been actually pledged to the un-
qualified discontinuance of transportation to this
particular colony, there would, indeed, be very strong
grounds for the appeal to the house on this occasion. Cer-
tainly I will not deny that there are great maxim fur dis-
satisfaction on the part of the colonists, arising out of a
communication made to them by the goventment on this
subject; but at the same time, I must say that I think the
hon. gentleman has considerably overstated his ease in re-
presenting that the faith of the government has been
pledged to the extent he mentions. 'the hon. gentleman
has read to the house extract.: from despatches in which a
declaration is made by the goveninant that transportation,
as tarried on previous to 18-16, would not be resumed in Van
Diemen's Land. tinder the circumstances which we found
before us we adopted at once the decision conic to by the
late government, and it was accordingly announced that
transportation to Van Diemen's Land would IC, suspended
for a limited period. The hun. gentleman, referring back
to this, now says that there has been a breach ofengage-
ment, inasmuch as in 1916 and in 1817 a large number of
convicts were sent to, and arrived in, Van Diemen's
Land. It is quite true that, in 1811', a large number
of convicts did arrive in Vau laieuten's Land ; but the rea-
sun was, that they had left this country at the end of 1815,
before the decision of the administration had been an-
nounced, and they arrived out most of them towards the
close of 1846, and but very few at the beginning of 1817.
As far as I can obtain information, I can Mate that not a
single convict was sent to Van Diemen's Ismid
in 1547 ; and, if any mnviets arrived out in
that colony after Janurry, 1,517, they must have been
cargoes which sailed from this country prior to the period
when the suspension of transportution was determined on.
I may, therefore, say, that in 1517, and up to the close cf
1848, no convicts arrived at Van Diemen's Land. But,
then, what did we do? The hun. gentleman hies alluded
to a letter I addressed to the Secretary of State for the
Colonies on this subject, wherein I stated what were tile
views of the government in thu position in which they found
themselves, and what were the prospects in respect to the
accumulation of convicts in this country in consequence of
the suspension of transportation to Van Diemen's Land.
I have, on other occasions, stated to the house what those
views and intentions, at that period, were; and I have also
explained how, of necessity, they were subsequently modified
in the presence of the practical difficulties which we found
in our path in our attempt to carry our system
into effect. lam bound to admit that the views expressed
in the letter referred to, and iii Lord Grey's despatch to Sir
William Denison, are not in strict accordance with the
course subsequently pursued by the government. I have
stated before, and I repeat, that 1 was led to state those
views and intentions in the letter in question from a belief
that they were in the abstract perfectly right ; but without
sufficient experience of the practical difficulties of carrying
them out—which difficulties those only can be really ae-
guaiuted with who have been charged with the ailminwtra-
Lon of the law in this country. (Hear, hear.) But what
did Lord Grey do ? lie did not write to Sir William
Denison simply to state that transportation to Van Die-
men's Land was to be suspended, and that at the cad of
two years no transportation was to be resumed ; but in
this very despatch he distinctly pointed out what the corn.'
mittee of 1847 pointed out—the absolute necessity
of the ultimate removal of convicts from this country—not
as, up to that time, immediately after sentence—but in an
advanced stage of punishment, and after having undergone
a reformatory part of their sentence in this country—and
not to Van Diemen's Land alone, but to the colonies gene-
rally. (Hear, hear.) Lord Grey adverts to the advisabi-
lity of dispersing convicts after having reached a certain
stage in their punishment ; and he clearly pointed, not to
the abolition of the transportation of convicts, but to the
imposition of the sewer part of the punishment in this
country, to separate imprisonment, to subsequent hard la-
bour on public works, and to ultimate removal from this
country, not in accumulated numbers, but under a new
system, to apply to the Australian colonies generally—the
new system referred to being that system of exile that
was enforced with regard to prisoners tent to Penton-
vine, the exiles to be subject to all the penalties
attached by do law So returned convicts returning to this