The Express.
London, England, 1853-04-30 00:00:00

boasting, a mere pretence, or were they realities ? (Hear.)
I Whim roaading off the peroration of a epee 's about " our
'lorious constitution," we did not confess that this was a
fry where, if an illustrious refugee souaht the protec-
shores, we set the police to watch his doors.
What had ho don:
hat ? fi
ermsteel that his premises should be watched ?
nail the noble lord received which had
inducted bfen to watch the premiees of Komuth ? Where
What
e
had he got 11 ? (Hear, hear.) The noble or might he
well assured the matter Vould not drop here. If it dropped
question would be repeated,-enpon what ground, upon
ia
noblethat
lot ed
gos., it
nwootutol d a
nbsew e
r takennow, u ph
so u
mt
gf
hd
bers.surie; :Thine ;
what information, bad be gives instructfons to the police to
'l3 ouunn clu ee d
that be was justified In the coorse he had
tonhis
previousdouree wiinthquirer7g;ardantdo ledosideutbh:
notwVasfilt
'taken regarding this illustrious strange,' ? (Cheers.)
haffakPena.lNNNo
theta constitntioaal jealousy of foreign powers icterfering
comaunl de nguoltd
know
wr regret r
than
nt tnhoebillee bwartde
is this country was a feeling that must be
peeroitted in
either house of parliament. When they found this e 'mum-
stance following so closely on the renc.'ed and Mee.ei.sted
remonstrances of Austria end other foreign powers, D DS'
lishmen were necessarily touchy and jealous on the srobjee
(Hear, hear.) If proceedings were to be taken in course 0.
law, uo doubt reserve was justifiable ; but this matter had
now been before the public for a fortnight; it bail been
I announced to them as though some great secret of state, of
' some frightful conspiracy, was to be brought before the '
public. Now it had dwindled down to a mere police inter-
malice as to an improper quantity of gunpowder or rockets
being found on certain premises. He wished to ask the !
noble lord whether he intended to take proceedings against
Kossuth. (Hear, hear.) Charges of this kind ought
not to hang over the head of any man with-
out being brought to some speedy issue or deter-
mination ; least of all over the head of an exile, who '
must and did reoeive mucn commiseration from a very
large number of people in this country. (Hear, hear.)
If the preceedings had been instituted against Kouutls, '
the noble lord's answer would have been a perfectly correct
one. But they were initiatory proceedings against the
Hales, who were to be brought to trial ; and with re-
gard to them, it was quite right that the information
should be reserved. but an opportunity had been taken,
unfairly, unjustly, and unnecessarily, to those proceedings,
to introduce the name of Kossuth when he had no oppor-
husky of giving an answer ; and on that ground the noble '
lied was bound to intimate to the house whether or not it
was his intention to institute proceedings against that illus-
thous refugee. (Hear, hear.)
Kr. FRENCH said he must express his surprise at any
Meek being made on a man who hod done more than any
ether statesman to uphold the liberties of England in the
eyes of foreign nations. (Hear, hear.) What had appeared
fa the papers that day folly justified the precautions taken.
la opposition they had only the statement of the hon.
amber for Manchester of his opinion as to Kossuth. But
sasollsating that he had had only one interview with Kos-
suth seam years ago at Manchester, and had neither seen
war summunicated with him since, the force of that evi-
dences would be very slight.
Visecuat PALMERSTON-4 am sorry to trouble the
base again • but I think the gentlemen who have spoken,
especially the hon. member for the West Riding, have en-
' timely lost sight of the question. (111,ar, hear.) Ido not
shrink from answering any question with regard to my own
conduct; I answer that plainly and openly. But I was
asked what, in my opinion, would be the result of certain
proceedings. (No, no.) I decline answering that question.
Wait till the proceedings are over, then theuestiort will
be answered by the politic for themselves. (Hear, hear.)
Proceedings have been instituted against Mr. Hale for a
breach of the law in regard to the manufacture of rockets.
Those proceedings will be completed. No proceedings have
been instituted against M. Kossuth. I have brought no
charge against M. Kossuth. (Cheers.) I never mentioned
his name in connexion with any charge. I was asked a
question fer the purpose of inducing me to mention his
name. I abstained—(hear, hear) ;-1 brought no charge
against him ; and I am not responsible for anything that
may have appeared in any newspaper. (Cheers.)
Lord D. STUART said the first answer of the noble
lord was a mistake, and not the first into which he had
fallen. He had been under the necessity of correcting his
statement, that Hale had 500 lbs. of gunpowder in his pos-
session, when it turned out that he had not half that
quantity. He said the first part of the case agaicst the
Hales was closed. That was not quite correct. The police
magistrate had given his decision; one that had astonished
a great many persons well able to judge—cheer, hear) ;
but Mr. Hale intended to appeal to a superior court, and
that decision might be set aside. It turned out that the
person in whose possession the powder was found was a
manufacturer, and as such had • right to have almost, the
quantity that was found—within about 51. 14s. worth. All
that the warmest friends of foreign refugees could
claim was, that they should be treated exactly the
same as her Majesty's subjects. (Hear, hear.) But the
noble lord admitted that some of these refugees
were subject to that which could not be expressed in Eng-
lish—a system of police surveillance. (Hear, hear.) At
least the noble lord refused to state that the police had not
been directed to watch tome of these persons. The police
haunted their steps, watched their going out and coming in,
took notice of everybody coming to their houses, and insinu-
ated themselves in disguise as servants. (Hear, hear.) This
migbt be done to foreign refugees ; and the noble lord had
also stated, not long ago, that the law was the same with
regard to British subjects. So that not only Kossuth, but
every one of ourselves, was subject to be treated is this
manner; and we could not tell whether any one we em-
ployed might not be • detective or a policeman in disguise.
But wculd Englishmen, when they knew it, be long content
to live under such a system as this ? He thought not. When
it came to be known that we were all subject to this system
of police surveillance and espionage, such a feeling would
be raised is: the country as would make it inconvenient for
any government to continue to sanction such proceedings.
DEPOSITION OF INDIAN JUDGES.
Sir C. WOOD, in answer to • question from Mr. 0 .way
on this subject, said that the calked papers had not yet
arrived.
APPOINTMENTS IN IRELAND.
Mr. MAGAN wished se ask a question of the Chief Se-
cretary for Ireland relative to the appointment of' officers to
a lunatic asylum, in which he said Lord Derby's govern.
ment had felt a very strong interest—(laughter)—for they
had appointed the medical and other officers • twelvemonth
ago, though the asylum was not yet completed. Ile wished
to know if those appointments would be confirmed by the
present government ?
Sir .1. YOUNG wished the question to be postponed till
Monday.
The motion for the adjournment of the house at its
rising until Monday, was then ~greed to.
Mr. BOU YERIE brought up the report of the committee
of supply ; and theoesolutions passed on the preceding
night were agreed to.
THE INCOME TAX RESOLUTIONS.
The house then west into committee of ways and means,
Mr. Bouverie in the chair.
Mr. G. H. MOORE said the budget had been supported
on various and contradictory grounds: by some because
they wished the income tax to be perpetuated, by others on
an opposite ground. He instanced Mr. flume and Mr.
Oliveira. Sir F. Baring supported the tax because he
wished it to be repealed at the end of seven years ; and Mr.
Cobden, because he wished it to be perpetual. The views
of all differed from those of the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer. His supporters did not appreciate or comprehend
him at all; but they supported the budget as a whole.
The great secret of this was the legacy duty; that was the
oil of ammonia which attracted the rats by its scent;
to obtain that they would swallow all the rest.
(Laughter.) Even some of the arguments of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer were the strongest that had been
used in support of the amendment. It was said this tax
was only. for seven years; but seven years was a little
eternity in finance. They had been declaring it unjust for
more than seven years already; this was now admitted by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, also that it was inquisi-
torial, and led to enormous frauds; but still it was proposed
to renew it for seven years. Why should this be done a a
period so happily adapted for renewing our ordinary finan-
cial system ? The right hon. gentleman had held it up es
as invaluable auxiliary in time of war, but one that ought
not to be used is times of peace; still he advised them to
keep on this coat of mail for seven years longer, for no
other purpose than to save their ordinary clothes.
(Laughter.) What ground was there to believe it would be
then repealed ? The estimates had gone on increasing, and
would, no doubt, continue to do so. As regarded Great
Britain, the only question was whether this tax should
be continued for the sake of remitting others; and if
so, would they prefer it in its present unequal form ?
It was a mere choice of advantages as regarded England.
But in Ireland it was widely different. Ireland was to be
taxed 300,0001. or 400,0001. a year more, that other cheats
might bo taxed by that amount less. This might be very
just, but it did not suit them. (Loud cheers from both
sides.) He had heard of the students in a hospital at Dub-
lin hissing a poor patient because he would not submit to a
most painful operation; and this was much the way in
which Ireland was now treated by the English press. The
press was not altogether free from suspicion ; they had
supplemental reasons themselves. (Laughter.) There was
a suspicion that there might have been a bargain between
them and the government—(hear)—but he gave nOeed to
it; but it was • fact that there was a suspicion of the
government tampering with the leading journal; nail
he hoped that suspicion would be removed by that
excrescence being taken. out of the:budget. (Hear, bear.)
Passing from the consideration of motives, let it be
inquired what were the grounds of justice. if any, Las op-
posing the extension of the income tax to Ireland, They
must come to one of two conclusiona,—either that Ireland
was not sufficiently taxed at pressat, and ought to be
more heavily taxed, or that the effect of the budget
would not be to impose any heavier burtieus on Ire-
land. The question which they bad to consider was
that of a readjustment of the balance of taxation
between England and Ireland, and if he showed tint in
consequeace of the proposed measures there would be a debt
and loss to Ireland to the amount of 300,0001., it mattered
little whether the income um was or was not taken off at
the end of seven years. (Hear, hear.) The gain to Ireland
unuld he 561,2871., and the loss to Ireland from the impo-
sition of the income tax, the spirit duty, and the legacy
' duty, would be 915,6901., leaving a balance against her of
350,000/. (Hear, hear.) In addition to this, he ought to
calculate, according to the best authorities on the subject,
• loss of 150,0001., in consequence of the remis.ion of the
duty on fureign butter. (Hear.) lie did not object to that
remission,ss it was a necessary consequence of fine trade,
but lie had a right to take it into calculation in estimating
the advantage or disadvantage to Ireland of the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer's proposition. (Hear, hear.) But
then it might be said that Ireland was too lightly
taxed. Ile would not go into that question now, because
Whether bile aisortion was true of not must depend a e„,t