The Express.
London, England, 1848-08-01 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, AUGUST 1, 1848.

STANDING ORDERS.
On the, motion of bir W. HZATHCOTIII, the( report of
the select committee on *the standing orden revidon etas
oonsiderodsod agreed to. • •
The hones then adjourned to 6 o'slock.
The house mutual at 5 o'clock.
NORTH CHESHIRE ELECTION,
Lira COURTENAY reported Iron; too cominittee'elsheen
to try the merits of this election that Mr. O. C. Legh had
been duly elected ; that meat, drink, and entertainment had
been provided to a great extent, but Oat there we, no suffi-
dent evidence to connect with it the sitting member or hit
agent. The noble lord gave notice that'll. would, duo dill,
more that the evidence be printed.
IMPORTATION OF SUCIAR.
Mr. WILSON On answer Co a question) said, that an ap•
',Walton ter advances on the irriportatl:n of sugar hail been
roade to the East India Company, but be has no reason to
believe that such applications would be granted.
COLLISION BETWEEN THE PEOPLE AND

dimlatsbed it, proportion, end their only profit was derived
worn the small quantity or refined sugar, about 10 per mat,
which they exported. In Belgium, the law was prweisely the
same, and was viewed with the same objections by the re-
deem. From an inspection of bills of lading, be found that
it °oat at least hi 3d. per cwt. to bring relined sugar, in the
Mid state, from Millard to Landes ; aid this was equivalent
te so n.uch prat ction to ter refiners. Lower freights might
be 'siva by sailing vessels, but the unavoidable delay wee
an objection to that mode of transit. Locking at them
tactic, he would pat is to the committee whether
it would he wise, seeder exerting treaties, to attempt to
exclude Duteh sugar. But we were under the MMe treaty
with the United States, whose refiners were new beginning
to compete with our owes and the Dutch refiners in the
Mediterranean and other market', ; and by the act of 1846
as wi re bouud to admit the r. fined sugar of the United
States, without reference to its bring the prnduee of free or
slave states, on the most favoured terms. To attempt now
to dispute the constrie lion of these treaties would be both
unwise and dishonourable on the part of this country. Sup-
pose that Holland, for the sake of favouring the Uqited
States, shined determine to exclude our cotton manufactures
taunt we did not grow the cotton, what would be the
indignation of the noble lord opposite and his political
Sleuth at such an unjust procedure? And yet the course
advocate d with regard to the Dutch sugars was precisely the
same. Io proof of this view being the correct one the hon.
gentleman read an extract from a paper of the late Mr. Dea-
con Hume, in which he fully.recognised the principle that
there as no ground for any distinction as to the place
where the material of a manufactured article had been pr -
tiered. Certain other advantages which the Dutch refiners pos-
sewed a ere matter of jealousy to tho friends of the colonial
inter. et. Very large tares were sail to be allowed on
Havana auger the merchant allowed a tare of 18 per cent.,
but when it come to pay duty the government only allowed 14
per cent., and so in proportion on other supra. Hence, it
was a mistake to suppose %het the Dutch merchants had an
advantage uuder this head. Another alleged advantage was,
tie Doti h refiners could use the su;'arn imported under any
flag He was sorry to PIT that no suck liberality yet prevailed
• in H. (land; for the unlined. grit Hags, including all the sugars
of &lath America, Java, and Outot, were subject to an addi-
tional freight of 6d. to 9d. per cwt. But the motion of the
noble I.dd would be most di.advantageous to the West
Indians themselves. For the last three or four years
eda t scluaion of Dutch sugars had operated to their
ilimdvantege. It was clearly their interest that what-
ever reduction in the pre* of aegar took place,'
the ad vantage should go, an Jar es poesible, to the consumer,
in order that the consumpeen might be stimulated. Previous
to the reduction of the duties in 184.5, refined sugar had sold
at 17s. 11,1. higher than raw sugar; immediately after the
mote tion the difference was above 30a., owing to the diffi•
culty of the refiners in supplying the inrremed demand. The
same thing occurred last year, when refined sugar tell from
td 58.. per cwt., while West India sugar fell from
49. Bd. (the long price) to 39,, being a much larger per
tentage of fall. Were we now to exclude continental sugars
fr .m this market, instead of being an advantage to the c
• ieta, it would only give a boon to the refiners.
lib ha Sieved that the introduction of the sugar to which the
noble lord referred wee a meat rof high policy, and that it
would be impolitic sad unwise to accept the resolution of the
• idatie 1 . . .

Mr. GOULBURN did not think that the calculations to
the hon. gentleman made his case better. (Hear, hear.)
Nor was his statement with regard to the howdy allowed by
Holland at all satisfactory. It wall clear that if the Dutch
refiners could only limit the quantity of sugar which they
took out for the purpose of refining they would have an
runrm .us huunty. It might be an impolitic thine for a
fore oe cove rococo?, an mire did its own peeulation, to pay
thin large bounty ; but it was also a serious thing for the re-
floe is of this country to be compelled to compete on equal
terms with the Dutch refiners, to whom their government
allowed this large bounty. (hear, bear.) It seemed to him
that the only mode by which they could effectually protect
theince:ees against this bounty was by imposing a higher
' rate 01 on that particular produce.
Mr. DISRAELI said that if the position taken by the go-
, veruieent was one of high policy, as stated by the hon. gen-
tleman (Mr. Wilton), how could they account for not having
taken i in the month of fay—(hear,te hauj—bwause there
wall no application from any foreign government since that
motich ? He protested ag onst the system adopted, sot now
for the first time, by the hon. gentleman, of reading mys-
terious statistics en anonymous authority to the house. He
ulnae' looked upon them with suspicion, and listened to
them with perplexity. (Hear, hear.) Re did not think
that on the present occasion they had made a very
favourable impreonon on the hewee. a Hear, hear.)
Toe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
qua stion so gaiety stated by the noble lord opposite was
whether or not a higher rate of duty was to he imposed on
the r. d sugars of Europe. Upon an equitable and politic
construction,.) th, treaty with Holland he thought that the
refined sugar of that country ought to . e admitt d in this
nn.atry. As to the value of the bounty it.ell, they might
judge of that from the two facts—flat, that it was about to
iilr.lishett in Belgium; sod, secondly, that the principal
oftner, in Holland hail petition a against it. (Hear, hear.)
Their legislation would become very complicated indeed it
it di peeded upon tnat of other nation..
Mr. °LADS roNE agreed in the latter observation of
the right hon. gentleman, but he thought that they should
watch the legislation of a particular country on a particular
feint. It was said that they ought ant to leave to the Biitisti
r. fin. ra the monop ely i t the Ilritish market. lie woul.l
admit the justice of allowing to the le rcigner the advantages
which arose irons capital, skill, or industry, but it would not
be a fair way of applying the principle of liberty of com-
merce if they were to admit those to eimpete with t.e
Britisn refiners who had artificial and fictitious advantages
which they &lived from 1. gislition and the long purse
of their government. (Hear, hear.) They ought not to adopt
an iilibernf mode of construing treaties, hut if they admitted
as equitable rule with regard to other countries, th. y ought
also te admit it when outing with classes of their own coun-
trymen. It was duuhtful whether they ought now to enact
a permanent legislation on this subject, when they could
give 12 months' notice to Holland of terminating the treaty.
ith regard to the beunty, it was evident on the face of the
f.c.s, that a large bounty was eiven by Holland, and he
he )r)1 nothing on the other side in contradiction of the, ex-
cept what was of the nature of prisumpions. On 100 kilo.
grammes a duty of 131 kilogramme.) was charged to tne 'w-
ean Importing, 5 per cent. of which he ;said in cash, and 90
per cent. was charged in the books of the euvomhouse.
If he e xocirted 681 kilogrammes he received back the whole
of the 90 per mit. but the machir.cry which h • used yielded
him out act 100 kilogrammes not merely the 681 kilogrammes
which he exported; but it yielded him, beeides, 111 kilo-
gramme a of refined sugar, rum 20 kilogramme. of MUSCOVIIIIO
end molasses, wnich he introduced into the market of Hol-
land free of duty, and which he mld at the protected pewee.
(Hear.) This, therefore, was in the natrre of a bounty, and
it would be unfair to call on the titivate trader in this country
to enter into competition with those who were supported by
the resour es of a government. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL inked whe thee the right hon. gentle-
' man would have one rule for Hollend and another for Ham-
Iwo' ? He did not think lie worn. Then, would he propose
to make a difference between sugar not grown in Holing,
and ?Rigel menufacturi dinit ? He thought that would ac
untavoulahly for thin country, h. cause it wouldgive Holland
an c pros unity of making a distinction between COWIN matt
ufactured in this country and the cotton of the United Sates.
The right hon. gentleman said that they could give Holland
notice that they would terminate the trea)y. But the right
hon. gentleman must consider that the treaty was not con
fined to refined sugar, but that it regulawel the general trade
he tween Holland and this country, and would he, in order
to exclude refined sugar, give h ellmel sn opportunity of in-
creasing the differential duty on the menu:aetured goods of
this country, thereby giving an advantage to the manufac-
tures of Frau°, Germany, and the United States? But did
the refiners of Holland derive any advantage (tem her
bounty ? He did not deny that there might he some appa-
rent advantage in the bounty. But in the first place there
was gr at difference of °pluton whether there was any real
bounty or not; and in the next, they found a great
refiner in Holland saying that it was a disadvantage,
Bat what was conclusive to his mind on the subject was,
that the refiner. of this country were able to compete with
those of Ilol.and in their markets. (Hear, hear.) lie was
not surprised that the noble lord who advocated protection
should advocate the ex lusion of refined stair from Holland,
but that the right hon. gentleman who followed a different
principle should do so, very much surprised him.
Mr. HERMES said ho did not see any it.consistency in
the Coors • adopted by the right hon. gentleman, because, as
he understood him, he viewed the question as one of adjust-
ment—ax one where the only difficulty was to fix
the proper amount of duty.. The present cam was
similar to that act the English distiller, to whom
they allowed a countervailing duty as against Scotch and
Irish spirits on which the duty was lower. (Hear, hear,)
It Holland gave the support of the government pure to her
own refiners of sugar, she had no right to expect that her re•
IMO sugars would Ise allowed into this country on equal
term with that of ot •cr countries. That would b to make
peculiar exception in the case of Holland to which she
had uo right. (Hear, hear.) it wool be unjust, unwise,
and a sacrifice of their own refiners, to allow Holland to
enter into competition with them under such a disadvantage.
The case of the government was most feebly supported
in the present instance, and the subject was one with
which they seemed to be entirely unacquainted. (Hear )
Mr. Macgregor had all moue considered that not leas than a
duty of 26r. Bd. on single relined sugar would suffice to pro-
tect the British refiner.
Mr. HUDSON called upon the government to return their
earnest thanks to the noble member for Lynn, for Navin
saved them from the consequences of the blundering of the
hon. member Inc Westbury. The hon. member for Westbury
sh. ok his head, rejecting the impeachment. Well, if the hon.
member for Westbury was not the author of the blundering
which hail been exposed by the noble lord, ho had better let
the house know who wall,
The committee divided—For the amendment 34
Against it
The original schedule was then agreed to as follows:
Resolved, that in lieu of certain duties of customs now ?amble en
mew, the Meowing denim send, from and to the respective days
hervdter mentioned, be charged on silicar imported into the United
Kingdom; (that W to soy) —on sugar, the growth and predate of any
Bitted. possewein into which the importation of foreign sugar t. pro.
',mind, being imported from any such possession, the lades follow-
ing: (that is to say)—

1.
On hrown t,r while, re-
-1.44..nr, or 'll6ol. Fell
&fed by any Lone-e NUR]
In quallty thtreto.foranrY
cwt.

@ J.4gi
4,4,4 vl4l

.we
1~a'%.1 6 "a" 2.5 11":
1447

4... d.l to d.

tads ZB. d.