The Express.
London, England, 1865-02-28 00:00:00

tars otaoovint prisons ; but on No appoiotment of a uew
governor • few months ago he tonsil that a practice had
gown up of departing frotu thee rids, mid that in certain
came priemsen were allowed to MOWN books iroai their
friends. Immediet•ly the saw poems disoowirod die
prank* was imattury is the rules he pat a stop to it.

money in Ireland, the expenditure must be very large sod
continuous ; and perhaps the remelt after all the) hid dons
in that foolish coated with the labour market in America
would be, that we should have to give it up, and that the peo-
ple would go ; and in the meantime we should have retarded
the only means of relieving the distress of the counhey,
namely, by sending awe,' the surplus population to •
instead
where they would be able to live and be happy,
of staying at home and starving. There was only
one other topic on which he would add • few words. There
could be no doubt that the miseries of the present stets of
Ireland would be oossidenbly mitigated if she had any
manufactures—those great works which in England afforded
so convenient • refuge in times of vrimltural dieters.
But to have these manufactures Ireland must have capital.
That evidently she had not. But la England there was •
superabundstme of capital, and it wenteverywbsee. "When
we," said the hon. mustier " Well in Audrelia, we were
perfectly deluged with English capital. (Laughter.) Is
was quite a nuisance." (Laughter.) The flood of English
capital led to a most dreadful commercial minis; it set up
half a dozen banks competing with each other, utterly ro-
=lsof the commercial wants of the country, and these
were managed by a number of disre-
putable persons who were sent out to carry
on this oompetitiou. Now Ireland was divided from Eag.
lend by only • narrow channel ; yet capital wholly refused
to go there. As hon. gentlemen were aware, capitol was
not to be cajoled or coerced ; she was • coy and discreet
nymph, throwing herself without =serve into the arms of
the decent and laborious artisan, but shunning the embrace
of the fiery and intemperate agitator. Ireland is this case
must minister to herself. It was the fault of Ire-
land if England did not feel secure in leaving her
capital in that country. Ireland must do what she
could to remove that want of confidence, and when that
was done, one great mesas of alleviatiag her troubles would
reach her. (Cheers.) This was the question above all
others for this empire. Our foreign policy had of late
years, for some cause or the other, somewhat receded into
the back ground. As to our domestic poliey, there was
hardly a grievance upon which it was poedble to raise •
discussion of say public intereet. Bat in Ireland the case
was entirely different. She was bound to us by
an indissoluble tie. She was not like one
of oar oohed's, which we
=voided as nations
being trained up by us to take their own course in the
world. For good or for evil, for better for wisirim, Ireland
wee bound to us by • tie which we should rather
than allow any one to break. That being so, ow unspeak-
ably important was it, that she should be placed in a paw
tion something like that occupied by Scotland. She was
the single drop of bitterns= in one otherwise overflowing
cop of prosperity. It became the house, since they
could not cheek the miserable exodus that was taking
place, by avoiding all irritating topics, and by express-
ing what they all felt, the eincereat wishes for the prow
polity and welfare of Ireland, to try and heal the wounds
=teed by centuries of misrule. (Cheers.)
Mr. O'REILLY had no wish to attribute to England any
desire during the period that had transpired since the
Emancipation Act to do otherwise than to place Ireland on
a footing of equality with England. Such a position the
Irish nation would =wept, but not an inferior one ; and
they did not consider that they were placed in that equal
position when they found in their midst a church of Infini-
tesimal minority in point of numbers supported by parlia-
ment against the wishes of the whole community.
The LORD ADVOCATE maid with regard to the emigra-
tion of the people, he must speak plainly, sad may be did
not think it was a thing to be regretted, from whatever
pad of the country it took place. A great deal of
emigration bad taken place from the Wotan Highlands,
and he did not regret it. No doubt it was hard to break up
old ties and aseocidions, but in their =War position they
must often feel the pressure of population on subsidence ;
and when that was the case they ought not to regret the
mention of social and moves= laws. The names of the
old native families of the Highlands were to be found in
Canada and Australia. Emigratioo was a thing that would
niate itself ; It was beyond legislation, and would cease
when it was better for • ease to stay at home than to go.
He hoped that by an Morgan of enterprise and energy on
the part of the people of Ireland this result would saes
take place. He could not support the resolution bemire
he did not think it would be right to affirm in an abstract
manner that emigration was to be regretted, and because
he believed that the evils of Inland ley too deep to be
cured by the remedies suggested. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. IV/AARON believed it would be a source of great
sorrow and dissatisfastios to the people of Ireland that all
the right hon. gentlemen who spoke on the ministerial side
of the house seemed not to regret the drain of the Irish
people, which they assumed to be the result of economic
laws. His opinion was the emigration of the Irish people
arose directly from the violation of the well-known laws
of political economy. The people of Ireland pawned a
fine soil—the source of all wealth—and if they had only
liberty to till it for their own benefit, they would not come
to that house with the whine of mendicants, as the hon. and
learned member for Sheffield mid was the case.
How could Ireland prosper while 4,000,0001. were taken
away in absentee routs, and 8000,0001., in taxes, of which
1,000,0001. only was received beck ?
Mr. DUNLOP said for himself, he thought thail ad.
meow of public money, such as were proposed, Waded to
encourage the disease they were intended to curs. What
was wanted was that the Irish people should be taught to
rely upon themselves, which he thought they were perfectly
able to do. Grants from the state only encouraged them to
walk upon crutches, and were destructive of all self-depen.
deuce. If they could only be weaned from a reliance on
the central government, be had no doubt that Ireland would
become as prosperous as Scotland, which had formerly relied
on state aid instead of her own exertions. The honourable
member concluded by gemming • hope that the govern-
ment, instead of yieliing to the demands of the Deb
priesthood or those who represented them, would endeavour
to gain the support of the Irish people.
Mr. LEFROY concurred in the opinion that great
distress is Ireland was produced by climate, and they should
rejoice if those who could not support themselves and their
families in comfort at home went abroad, where
they could not only do so, but Dave gooey to
seed to their relations whom they bad left behind.
As to the second part of the resolution, which was to the
effect that the house would ruddy support any well-devised
measure to stimulate the profitable employment of the
people—be thought that expression, "'Annulate," was
moat unfortunate, as nothing stimulating in that way could
be wholeeome or good for the country. On other grounds
he would not support the proposition. He was not one of
those who thought the happiness of the country could be
promoted by grants or advances of money. Ile bad sees
the operation of granted money at the period of the famine.
Money was improvidently and lavishly wasted ; and although
be was grateful to those who gave it, be confessed he
should not desire to see the system of advances repeated.
Another subject which bad been touched upon in the course
of the debate was the railways, and he thought it would be
most beneficial to Ireland if government were to exercise
some control over their management. If such arrange-
ments mold be made as to Woos the farmers to send their
cattle by rail instead of driving them along the road it
would be of great advantage.
Mr. P. URQUHART did not deny that there was severe
and distress is Ireland, but he was sure that pub-
-117::::s, objectionable on various grounds, would in the
long run make matter@ worse.
Sir H. BRUCE could not support the resolution. He
deeply deplored the want of employment in Ireland, but
could not deplore an emigration which benefited the unem-
ployed.
Sir G. GREY would ask whether parliament would
sanction the government giving • fixed rate of
wages, and at • higher rate than now paid in Ire-
land. because unless they did that the people
would not remain in the country, and if the government did
do so they would miss the rate of wages In all other parte
of the country—(bear, bead—and he (Sir G. Gray) was not
at all prepared to say that any scheme of that kind would
cure the evils which now prevailed, though they might
mitigate them for • season. He felt quite sure that the
house would be willing to entertain any well-devised scheme
for the purpose of relieving local distress, but in doing so
they must take precautions against aggravating the evil
which they might desire to ours. He thought that upon
this subject the house bad not fairly dealt with the govets-
meet. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had laid dews
principles perfectly sound in themselves, and which every
government ought to keep in view in making grants
of mosey, and be did not say that those principles pre-
cluded them doing so, but simply that they should be kept in
view, and be said in regard to the Shannon, for instance,
Prove your facia, that the banks have been injured by the
goverment in fulfilling an obligation which they had en-
tered into, and if they proved those fads the government
would admit the principle, and would not deny their claim,
and there would be no indisposition on the part of the
house or the government to give the temporary relief which
was asked, and the (overawed also would lend money to
the landlords upon terms which would enable them to make
useful improvement.. The noble lord the member for
Stamford might have spared himself those taunts which be
bad launched against the government, for the system which
he had advocated had been exploded 80 years ago. If they
were to apply it to Ireland they might apply it to all
their colonies, and he felt that no government would long
exist that pandered to public expectation, or that any
House of Commons would allow • government to expend
money without seeing that it was for a public benefit. For
any permanent improvement in Ireland the Irish people t
ought to look to dustman= and to their own resources, and '
not look to the government and parliament to relieve them
from a state of circumstances which had arisen' not from
any action of parliament or from the neglect of the govern.
meat, but from circumstances OTOT which the gamesman
and parliament had no control whatever. He admired
the tone of the hon. and learned member for Sheffield ;
bat he had • peculiar mode of addressing the •
house, and his speeches were always worth listening
to, and in his speech in this debate there was
wholesome advice in recommending the Irish members and
people to unite and to apply all their energies in the de-
velopment of the resources et their wonky, instead of di-
viding themselves into parties. Tian after having striven
to assist themselves, if they came to parliament and to the
government for assistance to enable them to do that which
they had been exerting themselves to do and could not
socomi, they would find no indisporition on the pert of
the government or of parliament to grant that which they
desired. (Hear, hear._)_
Sir S. NORTH OO was altogether opposed to any
measure that would have the effete of introducing
discriminating impend taxation in Indeed. No =se
friend of Ireland weild, he thought, 'decade
the adoption of such • coarse. With rasped to the
expenditure of public mew, it mead be mines

RECHISTRATION OF TITLES IN IRELAND.
Mr. SCULLY irked the fiseretary of State fer the Home
Departmeat whether, in the abeam of say Irish law of
it wee intended, on the part of her Majesty's government.
that a bill to register the titles to leads la Inland should
be iatroduosd during the present semion. either by the
Attersey-Geuend in that house, or by the LAM Chat:tailor
to the House of Lords.
Sir G. GREY replied that it was the intention of the
Lord Chem:allot to introduce, at au early period, a bill for
the regististioe of titles in Ireland.
SUBSIDY TO COMPANY OF AFRICAN MERCHANTS.
Mr. WHITE asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer
whether it was the inteetion of her Majesty's government
to propose the grant of a subsidy to the Company of
African Merchaate (Limited), to *liable them to put tradlag
steamers on the river Niger.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
situ the recommendation had been made to Earl Rumen,
the government. in considering the subject, found it int.
veloped in very great difkoultim, sad they thouet it right
to give all partite' full opportunity of Wng heard, and
also to give parliament the power of atiosidering the matter.
They had therefore produced, at the mid of last se ma
all
the papers is their poeseolloo, and same that time
he war Dot aware any proposal had been revived. So far as
the Treasury was concerned, the subject was not cow before
them, neither had they any intention to proceed in the
matter unless ground' were abowu to satisfy them that they
ought to do so.

SEA FISHERIES.
WHAHON asked the President of the Board of
Trade whether he expected the report of the special coin-
rainsiop on sea &berms to be presented On time to enable
him to carry, in this session, a bill founded on their recom-
mendations.
Mr. K. GIBSON said the commissioners would conclude
their inquiry before Easter, and the report weuld probably
be on the table in Kay or Jape, but be did not think any
legiaLation could take place this session on the subject.

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 28, ism.

and improper to bear national expenditure in one
particular path of the United Kingdom merely to
create employment there unless inch expenditure was for
reprodoetive purposes. They might now fairly owed',
the peeks of lord and whether the edvantiages
of aids to bed taxation which wen enjoyed in Eaglaad
miglit not be needed to Ireland in a pester depth than
beasidoth; and next, it was worth while inquiring whether
blither edema should ad be made or facilities given for
works of • reprodnetthe character. He would, therefore,
meggest that the amiailthe which sat last smith should
be reappointed, and the terms of their reforms enlarged
so as to embrace those three heads of inquiry. He believed
that if that Gems were adopted, as the result of the pee.
seal discuadoo, the bon. gentleman the member for King's
County would feel that the object he had in view in beteg-
ing forward his motion was more than attained. The
of an abstract resolution would be as nothing compared wit
the appointment of • committee charged with the duty
of inquiruig,
.with the sanction of the government, into the
mode in which drums might be made. To press the
motion to a division would only lead to confusion, and
would mislead the public, es men who took different views
of the same matter would necessarily fiad themselves in the
same lobby. (Hear, bear.)
Mr. CAIRD observed that the test as to whether the
emigration in Ireland was too great was the rate of wages,
and emigration had sot affected wages there ; they were
still any low. He believed, therefore, it was no evil.
Mr. PEACOCKE contended that a heavy debt was owing
by this wonky to Ireland, and the question was whether
tee motion provided a means of discharging the obligation.
After • few observations by Mr. Strife,
Lord PALMERSTON said everyone must agree that the
subject was one of the greatest possible interest. The
foundation of the motion was that great distress prevailed
in Inland. It did so ; bat, though there had been three
years of unfavourable seasons, the last wee of a differed
character. In the condition of Ireland there was much to
be dephred, and the decline of the population was, in the
abstract, an evil. But some years ago- the complaint was of
a redundant population in Ireland. Legislation oonki sot
counteract • law of nature, and keep labouring people in
the country when higher wages were given in another.
Thee how could an inducement to remain be created ?
Nothing could do it but the influx of capital.
What is it, then (continued the noble lord),
that has hitherto prevented the influx of capital into Ire-
land? It is the double notion—first, that Ireland has not
the same available means for the employment of capital ss
England and Scotland; secondly, that Ireland does not
give the same security for its employment. The concluding
exhortation of the boo, and learned member for Sheffield is
one that ought to sink deeply into the minds of every frith-
man. The religious and political feuds of Ireland have led
to an exaggerated notion in this country of the insecurity of
employing capital in that country. If the people of Rog-
laud and Scotland were well persuaded not only that they
would find cheap labour and the means of working
machinery, but the same security for capital which existed
in this country, there was no reason why capital, which
sought the must distant regions of the earth for profitable
investment would not go to Ireland. (Hear, bee.) Them
cannot be a greater mistake, in my opinion, than the idea
that commercial capital cannot profitably and securely be
employed in Ireland. When that idea is removed one great
source of the poverty of Inlaid will be also removed. With
regard to the prevention of emigration from Ireland, 'agricul-
ture isnot capable of any verve& improvement, because one
source of the poverty of Ireland arises from the minute sub-
division of land ; and what improvement can you expect to
be made in leidiop of four or five acres, which are culti-
vated by the labour °tithe family. No great improvement
can be expected in the agriculture of Ireland except by the
displacement of part of the population, so that agricultural
improvement would in point of fact only lead to increased
emigration. Yet no doubt there may be considerable addi-
tional employment in many parts of the country by the
employment of additional capital. And if by means
of private enterprise, if by means of advances,
to be repaid in • certain number of yen, landlords were
enabled to make improvements, whoh by their existing
mans they were unable to moniplish. such application of
capital might have • very beneficial effect on the condition
of Ireland. At the same time I would humbly submit to
landowners that the power of borrowing la a very tempting
one. that the time for repayment will coma and that they
will do well to consider carefully what prospect there is of
• remunerative return, if government or private companies
were disposed to lend. (Hear. bear.) With Meth to the
first part of the resolution, it is impossible to adopt
the naked assertion that we lament the decline
of population. That is • complicated question. We
lament that the population find it more to their advantage
to emipate than to remain at home, but if the result of
their leaving home is that they are in • better position, that
is • result which I think we cannot lament. With regard
to the second pert of the resolutioo, I think the belie( of
the house is against any free grant of public money. (Hear.)
With regard to Advances of money to be repaid, there are
companies established for the purpose of encouraging agri-
cultural improvements, and I apprehend that if good secu-
rity is offered to them, and if it is shown that there is a fair
prospect of aremunerative.employment of capital, from those
private companies mach assistance may be &Mined. (Hear.)
It beaten suggested that the committee of last year might be
re-appointed for the purpose of considering how far ad-
vanes, from the public fond might be extended in Ireland
for the purpose of local improvement. I can give no de-
cided opinion on that proposition till I see the particular
actorsth
and
seer
order of referen till I understand them ex-
and see their bearing.ce 'Meth, hear.) But that is a
proposition which is fairly entitled to consideration.
(Hear, hear.) I can only my that her Majesty's govern-
ment fully share in that feeling of dap sym-
pathy which has bean expressed by all who have spoken
in this debate for the people of Ireland. (Hear, hear.)
It is iepoieble to know anything of the Irish people with.
out 'ebbing them every happiness. If any hoc. gentlemen
mom for the reappointment of the committee of last year,
with a more extensive range of inquiry, her Majesty's
government will be ready to consider the proposition,
but their amputate of it willL of course, depend
upon the wording of the reference. I can only say that the
government will have an earnest desire to find in any pro-
position of the kind some method of remedying the evils of
Ireland, or rather of misting Ireland to extricate handl
from the position is which it is unhappily too true she is
now. (Hear.)
Lord J. MANNERS said be heard the concluding words
of the noble lard with the greatest possible pleasure. He
nadentood the noble lord to went to the proposition
thrown out in an earlier part of the evening hy the
hon. gentleman the member for Stamford, and with that
understanding he hoped his hop. friend would not divide
the house. (Hear.)
Mr. HENNESSY said that if he understood the noble
lord to accept the pooplalion of the right hon. gentleman
he should not divide.
Lord PALMERSTON said that be assented to the
proposition only so far as be considered the wording of the
order of reference to be worthy of acceptance.
Mr. HENNESSY said in that case he should divide the
house.
The house divided :
Far Mr. Bethany's motion 3l
Apisst lO7-76
The hones then went into committee pro formt, and
immediately resumed.
COURTS OF JUSTICE BUILDING BILL
This bill was considered as amended, and ordered for third
reading.
PILOTAGE ORDER CONFIRMATION BILL.
The order for going into committee on this bill was dis-
charged, and the bill ordered to be referred to a select
committee.
INDUSTRIAL EXHIBITIONS BILL
This bill was read • seo®d time.
BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY (IRELAND)
ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill was reed a third time and peed.
BANK OF IRELAND BILL
This bill was also read a third time and mooed.
COMMON LAW COURTS (FEES) BILL.
This bill was read a seoood time.
ELECTION PETITIONS ACT (1848) AIENDMEN
BILL.
T
This bill was read • third time and pared.
INNS OF COURT.
Sir G. BOWYER moved for leave to bring in a bill to
enable the benchers of the Inns of Court to appoint judicial
committees in certain oases, and to give the necessary
powers to such committees. The bill was, with two excep-
tions, rimier to the one he introduced last session. In the
firstplthe he made the bill permissive, the effect of which
would be that the beechen would form • sort of grand
jury to decide whether • particular case should go before
the judicial committee and the second difference was to
meet the objection to the last clause, that • person charged
with any offence would be enabled in the first instance to
go before the judges, which was considered an encroachment
upon the power of e Inns of Court.
Leave was given.
The house adjourned at 10 minutes past 12 o'clock.

THE GREAT BITROLLRIEB IN THE CITY.—The
apprehennion of the burglars connected with the peat
robbery of jewellery and watches from the shop of Yr.
Walker, in Cornhill. appears to have terrified some of the
poesisson of the stolen property, cc the following facts
will testify :—On Saturday afternoon, as two Thames
police constables were rowing under Blackfriars-bridge, their
attention was drawn to something glittering on one of the
piers of the new bridge of the Chatham and borer Railway,
which proved to be two valuable gold watches, with 11r.
Walker's name on them. It was quite evident they must
have been thrown by some person from the tempo=
wooden bridge alongside,with the intention of
going into the river. The officers immediately commtrai-
anted the areemetance to Mr. Darkin, of the metropolitan
police, who moon amertained that the watches formed part
of those stolen. Suspecting that there might be some more
of the stolen property in the river, he obtained the ambit-
' snob of a diver, who yesterday went down and succeeded
In fading two more gold watches ; and to-day the divers
have again to down awl recovered two other gold watelise,
each Wag worth 40 to 50 guineas, and these have bees all
thudded by Kr. Walker. The divers are eel at wedge
and it is expoisel more will he recovered. The watches do
sot appear to have base in the water more than a few beers,
and the ideresee is, that they were thrown tato the strew
immediately aver the apprehension dthe burglars.—
Shipping Gazette.