The Express.
London, England, 1848-07-15 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 15, 1

m▪
easure, end even should the house determine that no por-
tion of the ins' alments should be re-advanced there was yet
another object for which it was desirable the bill
pats. The first part of the bill enabled government
to re-advance the instalments as they were repaid for the pur-
pose of completing the works which were left unfinished last
year. The second object was to postpone for half a veer the
time for repaying the first instalment; sad the third was to
enable government, looking to the circumstances of Ireland,
to diminish or increase thenumber of instalments by which
the loan was to be repeill, so nu
as to relieve the pressure upon
those districts winch were the most distressed, and to enable
ethers when time was not an object, and whets it would be
an advantage to repay the loan at an earlier period than was
originally intended, to do so, by diminishing the number of
the instalments. With regard to the first object, the power
of remdvancing the money repaid, to which the bon. gentle •
man had objected, it would be recollected that the purpose of
the works for the completion of which such re-advances
were to be made was to give relief to the destitute
poor, and not the execution of the works them-
'elves. It was all teasing understcod that when that pur
nose was attained the works would be stopped, to
be completed afterwards by the districts themselves, if they
thought fit. At one time, in the year 1847, upwards of
700,000 found employment oe these works, an 1 though it
might be charged that in setae instances a wasteful expen-
diture had been incurred, it was impossible for any officer
of the government, looking at the extent of relief required
and given, aiid the difficulties to be encountered. to confine
the expenditure within a reasonable limit. It was due to Col.
Jones totem that the firmness and prudence he displayed had
enabled them to reduce this great army of labourers, without
any interruption to the peace and tranquillity of thefor counhic try,
or suffering to themselves. (Hear.) he works wh
presentments had been made amounted to 8,000,0001 in
round numbers; the sum actually considerable somethiog
undsr 5,000,0001. But a very portion of
the works was left uncompleted when the relief
commission, under Sir J. Burgoyne, commenced operations,
early in the year. 'lbis naturally gave rise to numerous
complaints, as it left the country, so far as improvement was
concerned, in a worse position than though these works
had never been commenced ; and the relief commissioners, in
their report, specially r, ferred to the great inconvenience
occasioned by the works being left in an unfinished state, and
urged their completion. The direction given at the close
of the year was to proceed with those works which were
indispensably necessary to complete main lines of commu-
nication, and to leave to the grand juries to make pre-
sentments sot the others if they thought proper. 'roe
Board of Ordnance bod intimated that to complete such
nem:guy works an expenditure of 650,0001. would
be required, and that the completion of the whole
would cost about 2,000,0001. The completion of a certain
portion of these works, it sae obvious, would di-
minish the claims for tempensation from various- parts
of the country, as the advantage the estates would
ultimately derive from them would in many cases deprive the
parties of all claim on the ground of priseot lose. As he had
said, government had received the meta urgent representa-
tions iron. all parts of Ireland se to the necessity of com-
pleting these works; and as an act of justice, the government
faith having in a manner been pledged in the matter, be felt
they were bound to afford sine facilities fur that purpose.
Be had had much difficulty in resisting the pressing demands
of Irish members for large advances of public money to carry
out the object, and he had intimated to them that though
he could Oct consent to further advances he should
not be unwilling to remilvimice the instalments, as they
were made for a certain time, say three years, in order to
complete the works— the Board of Works in all cases to decide
whether the proposed works were fit and necessary. The
yearly instalments amounted so 315,0001., 015,0001. therefore
would be the amount of the three years' instalments. The
first object, then, was to complete the works which had been
undertaken under grand jury presentments for the relief of
the destitute poor. (Hear, hear.) But it seemed there
were some districts in which public works were not the most
desirable way of employing the labouring population in re-
gard to the country or to the labourers themselves, and where
it was thought they might be more profitably employed in
draining the land than in completing the roads which had
been commenced. An ohisct which was regarded with great
interest by many proprietors in Irelacd was what was called
arterial &airtime, and a bill was introduced to make advances
for carrying it out, the money to be obtained from
private sources, not the public funds. So many ap-
plications for assistance under teis act bail been made
that last year it was found necessary to vote 307,0001., to
give employment in arterial drainage during thatyear. That
money was exhausted, and the commissioners were left to
obtaiu further funde as they could from private source., go-'
vernment not feeling justified in making further advances ;
the result was that many works had been stopped. It ap-
peared to him that it would not be an unwise application of
the money repaid to the exchequer on the advances already
made, if they were re-advanced tor the purpose of giving em-
ployment in this way ; and that when such repayments were
not required by the localities from which they came, they
might be very properly applied to other districts in which
such assiennce was needed. (Hear, Lear.)
Sir J. GRAHAM inquired in bow many instances wen
the dreinige works for which advances had been made, com-
pleted?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER doubted
whether the works were completed in more than a few in-
stances. About 60 of these works were to be completed
during the present summer, hut he could nut say whether
any of there were finished. Well, the second portion of the
measure was to enable government to postpone the period
for the payment of the met instalment. The provision as to
the repayment was, teat the presentment should be made at
the last spring assizes, and that an iastalment should be paid
M Gawk oubseq...l. melee. But at the spring assizei some
doubts had arisen, consequent upon au opinion given by
Justice Perrin, as to the legality of the presentment, and in
Armagh and some other counties none had been made. It
was not until the 6th of June that the Court of Queen's
Bench had decided that the presentment was legal, and
that was too late to have the books ready in time
for the assizes. An application had accordingly
been made for further time, which the government
was the more willing to accede to, knowing the great diffi-
culty ail classes had in Ireland, in making payments during
the three summer month.; they proposed, therefore, to
tsione the first payment until after the summer assizes—
Lear)—by which time he had every reason to hope—(for
ere was no ground for supposing that the harvest both in
grain and potatoes, would not be tolerably productive, the
last accounts of the potato crop being much more favourable
than those received some days before)—that the parties veined
be enabled to pay that which they were undoubtedly bound
to pay. (Hear.) Then, as to the last part of the measure.
It was well known that not only could no general rule be
laid down which should be equally applicable to all
parts of Ireland, but that no rule could be
Teemed which would apply equally to all parts of
the same county, or even the same union. It was
shown by the reports of the poor law commissioners that
while in one electoral division the rates couldnot be obtained,
in another there would be no lack of funds, and that while
in sonic places the poor rate was 12e. to 15s. in the pound,
in others it was not more than 3s. He admitted the heavy
burden on the finances of the country at this time, and that
Ireland was bound to pay these advances ; but the question
was, whether it would not be impolitic to refuse her some
assistance until she was freed from that distress under which
she was still labouring. (Hear, hear.) The poor law rate,
which was almost a new burden to Ireland, had amounted
up to the last rate to 2,500,0001., and the last rate alone was
1,600,0301. In many districts, especially in the west, it was
found impossible to raise the funds necessary to give
relief under the poor law, much lege to rem,
these hamlet:tents, or for the landlor le to find employment
for the labouring population in useful improvements,
as arterial draining and other agricultural works which
would tend to the permanent prosperity of all clasees,without
assistance. (Hear, hear.) lielieviug these objects to be of
great importance, it appeared to him a legitimate employ-
ment of these instalments as they came in (for a limited
period only), to advance the money to those localities by
which they were paid, or should these not require it, then to
other districts where it was most wanted, and thus diminish
the pressure for the ensuing year, and afford the means of
giving employment to the people. On Friday next he should I
probably have to make a statement as to what had been done
to effor.l relief to the suffering people in those districts in the 1
west of Ireland, where it was only by the aid of the British
Association and the food that remained in the government
stores, that the people—especially in Mayo—had been kept
alive.
Mr. GOULBIJRN observed that the right hon. gentle-
man had not referred to those financial considerations which
in his view were the fatal objections to this measure. He
had told them that this bill had three objects—the advance
of moneys for the coiunletion of unfinished works—the post- '
ponement of the period at which the repayments were to
commence—and the granting a power of extending the pay-
ments of tie sum for ',Mich Ireland had contracted fur so
lengthened a pitied a. in his mind to render null aed void
the chances of them psymeets being made. If a preposition
had been made to se • teem, the period of the payment of the
lint instalment merely, he might have cheerf city acquiemed in
such a proposition. But what did the proposition Aefore the
house mean I It professed to have the completion of the
public works of Ireland a the extension of arterial drain-
ing in view. Now, if these objects were in view, how were
they to be accomplished without the levy of a rate I Yet, from
the statements of the right hon.gentleman, the attempt to levy
a rate would be, it would seem, nugatory and fallacious. The
right hon. gentleman had dwelt upon the evil of undertek-
Mu public work., for the purpose of employing the people
of Ireland, which were not brought to a state of completion.
It was clear that such works were disalvantageous rather
than beneficial to the country, and thus the community was
actually injured by the remittance which was given to them.
But this money, it was asserted, was to be applied to a work
of great impedance—namely, the promotion of arterial
drainaec'e but, if it were to be applied to that purpose, what
was to become of the completion of those roads which were
to have been of so much advantage in elevating the
condition of the country ? Ile was actuated by
feeliugs of the greatest kindness towards 'ramie,
and was desirous to join in giving her every
assistance whose application might be useful ; but if
in carryinr out Mat assistance a course was to be
purse, d m that which wm adopted when they gave
such large sums for the construction of roads in that country,
which eventually proved hurtful instead of advantageous, he
certainly would nut join in the support of any such course of
proceeding. They would destroy the moral character of the
country if they inculcated the notion that when money was
lent to Ireland that country stood on a different footing
from any other with respect to the repayment of the loan.
(Item, hear.) When Ireland was in a state of great distress.
England was called to her assistance, and the first proposi-
tion was to advance a large sum to enable her to get out of
her difficulties, which was to be repaid by instalments ie a
seri., ofyears. It afterwards Appeared that a toll repayment
would press too heavily on her means, and England deter-
mined that one halt of the money should be given as a grant,
and that the remainder should he paid back by instalmeate.

Under these eiretniestances he thought that this country had
a right to calculate that the exchequer would receive
the answ ba
erck
the portion of the money thus promised • but
was that the money had been spent in unireductive o
works.
Now why was this ? Because the people who undertoo the
management of the presentments in -Ireland did not distin-
guish between useful works and those of an unproductive ha-
tuts, but presented for all, and threwthe burden of discrimina-
tion on the government which they should have borne them-
selves. (Hear.) He was disposed to give Ireland every assis-
tance consistent with the financial prosperity of this country,
bet further than that he could not go, recollecting as he did
how closely were the financial and commercial interests of
the two countries interwoven. The eoonotnisation of lles
revenue—the equalisation of revenue with expenditure was
a very important point to look to, and the way to effect this
was not by throwing charges on the consolidated
fund. When they heard of 315,0001. a year being
taken eta of that fend, it would be well to see
how Ireland stood in relation to it. Ireland already
owed the consolidated fund 8,300,0001. Of that sum
3,400,0001. was owing for debts contracted previously to
1847, and the remainder formed the debt which
of
had bun
ncurred in the course of that year; yet the amount
nterest paid by Ireland in this year was only 3,5001., being
omewhere about 9J. per cent. on the whole loan. Now
when the bargain was made it was understood that it was to
have been adhered to, and that according to the stipulated
terms, 315,0001. a year would be paid by Ireland until the
loan was liquidated. Now, when they were told
of an additimial million to be taken from the Con-
solidated Fund, it would be well to consider how
this country can bear the removal of such a sum in her
present condition. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had
distinctly stated that he expected a deficiency of not less
than a million, even under the most faveurable circum-
stances, and that million would have to be paid out of the
balances of the exchequer, this, of course, making them
lower than they were at present. The million which it was
proposed to devote to Irish relief would necessarily be taken
from the same source. He did not pretend to say what was
at the present moment the balance in the Exchequer: but
is January last it was 8,600,0001 , while in April it had de-
creased to about 6,000,0001. There had been a considerable
falling off during one period at least of the year, and at no
distant periodthey might expect this balance to be brought
to a very low point indeed. On economical considerations,
therefore, this proposition to draw another million from that
source should not les entertained. The hon. gentleman then
proceeded to condemn the bill on the ground that the poorest
districts of Ireland would be those on which the heaviest
rates would be levied, while they were comparatively ex.
eluded from participation in the proposed grant. lie else
strongly objected to entrusting to the Board of Works the
*election of the works which were to be executed, after the
experience they had of the inefficiency of that board during
the emergency of last year. The right hon. gentleman
ought to have come down to that house with a list
of the places which requited assistance, an account
of the nature of the works to be executed,
and an estimate of their expense. With such dan-
t/rents before them, the house could satisfy itself at the
works were really useful and necessary, and take care that
they should not be executed in districts not requiring assist-
ance by money, the payment of which would fall heaviest on
the poorest baronies. (Hear, hear.) He had heard nothing
to shake the opinion he hail formed when the bill was first
proposed, and be was therefore determined to continue his
opposition to it for this reason, as well as those be had stated,
teat it seemed to him this measure meant nothing less than
an abandonment of the attempt to levy a rate in Ireland for
the purpose of repaying the loan which had been given to
that country.
Col. DUNNE opposed the amendment. It seemed to him
that it was altogether a matter of necessity that the measure
should be adopted and money distributed in those districts I
which were unable to support themselves. He admitted that
the expenditure of similar grants during the year just passed
had been wasteful and extravagant, but they should either
go the length of letting the people starve or give them work.
It was absurd to expect that rates could be collected when
the charge. on the land in many cases exceeeed its value.
Mr. NEWDEGATE said it appeared to him that the
greater part of the money spent in Ireland was as much lost
to :he resources of tho empire as if it were thrown into the
see, and he was decidedly opposed to a centinuanee of such
wasteful expenditure. A great mistake had been made when
the proposition to grant a sum of mono) for the construction
of railways in Ireland had been rejected. The supporters of
that proposiion were told that the length of urns which
meat elapse tefore repayment could take place was a fatal
objection to the scheme but he now asked what chance of
repayment there was of the money which had been ad-
vanced, not tor the construction of railways which would
have been advantageous to all, bu: for works which were
actually injurious to all ? (Hear, hear.)
Mr. llELtutacr (Kerry), u we midi ntood, opposed the
introduction of this measure because the area of taxation
wallet be enlarged in consequence. The beat way to assist
Ireland was to individualise responsibility, but an increase of
the basis of taxation would have a contrary effect.
Sir Fe. FERGUSON avreed in the remarks which had
been made with respect to the increase of size in the unions
and el,ctoral divisions. In the large unions the poor-law
was a dead letter, but they had managed, at a great expense
it wee true, to struggle through in the small ones. lie for
one would not support the bill if the right hon. gentleman
had selected the machinery of the Board of Works for di-
rating the operations which it was proposed to undertake ;
but he believed that no advances would be made except in
localities really requiring them, and where the local gentry
pressed for them. Ile 1a.4 no doubt that the Board of I
Works would work well if it were reduced to the footing on
which it originally stood, namely, the exercise of a system of
control, and to that position be hoped soon to see it brought.
It was well known that in the county of Mayo tne govern-
ment last year had been obliced to appoint paid guardians
of the poor, and even now there was not the least possibility
of making any levy for the poor rates, still lees for the par-
pose of public worts. In fact, in the west of Ireland the
whole state of society seemed to be entirely broken up.
Sir L. O'BRIEN said that, having had the honour of fre-
quent interviews with the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the
Exchequer on the subject of this bill, he felt himself in some
manner bound to support it, but he thought it right at the
same time to state that he had received and presented a peti-
tion from the grand jury of the county of Clare against the
measure, and stating that they would prefer to repay the
debt they owed within ten years rather than lave it' re-
payment protracted for three years longer. (Hear, hear.)
The petitioners described the reckless manner in which the
public advances of money had been expended; and in
that respect they complained that they had been left no
option in the selection of the public works to be executed,
but bad been constituted the mere pessive 'genet of the
government officers ; and in consequence they stated that
good roads had been broken up ; that the population had
been taken away from the cultivation of the land to be em-
ployed upon unproductive works; and the result had been
that 60,000 persons in the county of Clara had been receiving
in and out door relief to the amount of 11,0001. per month.
However, as this bill would accemplish one important and
benevolent object, that of postponing the repayment of some
of the advances, on that and other grounds, if the govern•
ment should think it whet to persevere with the bill, he
should certainly give it his support.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the right hon. gentleman the
member for the University of Cambridge (Mr. Goulburn)
had opposed this bill as not being a good measure
of finance ; end be argued that it was better to have
1,000,0001. in the exchequer, than to part with
it for the purposes contemplated. As a measure of
finance, he (Lord J. Russell) agreed with the right hon. gen-
tleman that if they had simply to consider whether they
would keep 1,000,0001. in the Exchequer, or whether they
would lend that sum out in the way proposed, it would be
better in the present financial condition of the country to
follow the views of the right hon. gentleman. But this
was only one portion of the question to be considered; and
looking to the state of Ireland during the lest few years he
(Lord J. Russell) could not think that financial considers,- I
lions solely ought to govern the deciion of the question.
(Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman had adverted to
the public works which had been undertaken in Ireland.
This had been done under a system which began under the
auspices of an administration of which the right hon. gen-
tleman had himself been a member, end when large sums of
public money had been granted and others advanced for public
works during periods of great destitution and distress. The
system had been extended far beycied everything which had
been done prior to 1847, when the eupply a the ordinary
food of the people utterly failed. With the experience they
had had, he acknowledged that a far batter plan V; have
relieved the distress of a people who were starving would
have been to have afforded them directly food in the
cheapest possible tootle, rather than the adoption of a mixed
mode of relief, moiety, finding them food, and employing
them upon public work!. Experience had shown, that
although there wee an apparent advantage in having works
of public utility executed by thee, pauper', yet that in the
end it would have been a cheaper system to have fed the
paupers, and to have required nothing from them in return,
but to have employed the best se-de-bodied labourers on the
public works, giving them such wages as the species of work
on which they were employed deserved. (Hear, hear.)
Although, however, such was the result of past experience,
he (Lord J. Revell) still thought the object of the
measures of 1846 had been introduced to combine the
two objects. He found that Irish members spoke
of the works which had been undertaken as if
the primary object of those measures bad riot
been to feed 3,000,000 of people who otherwise would have
been entirely without the means of austentation. (Hear,
hear.) The hon. member for Portarlington (CoL Dunne)
stated that the works undertaken bad all been selected by the
officers of the government, but that asivrtion had been com-
pletely answered by the hon. baronet the member for Lon-
donderry (Sir R. Ferguson), who hail declared they had
been selected from the various barony presentineres made by
the country gentlemen themselv. a to the Board of Trade,
and the nee to the treasury. Therefore, if the works were
valueless an d un productive. the country eentlemen acquainted
with the localities, and not either the Board of Works or the
government, were to blame for the selection of those which
hid been uncli rtaken. (fleet, hear.) But the works having
been undertaken for the purpose of feeding the population,
great inconvenience must have resulted from a sudden ter-
mination of label,' on the works which had not been com-
pleted, and the question now was whether, having obtained
some porting' of the moneys before advanced, it was
nut advisable that the government should be empowered
to re-issue part of that so repaid, in order to the
completion of the works. It was obsious that many of the
roads might be completed so as to be of some public Lenity.
The right hon. gentleman (Mv. Goulburn) argued that it
would have been much better to have called for the repay-
ment of all the n dunce', and then a separatescomittee of supply
te have proposed the grant of a sum for pualic
works in Ireland. Ile (Lord J. Russell) could agree with
the right hon. gentleman if there had been such a repaynr nt
of the advances es would have justified that course, but he
wee afraid the et payments had not been such as the right hon.
gentleman seemed to suppose. While in some districts a

repayment rate of Is. or Is. ed. in the pound could be o' •
tamped, In others it was almost immpeesible, under presere intt eras
car-
: ausestancea,to obtain any repayent at all,and therefo
by this bill that a certain distortion should be left
rird government, and that where some small avenue
bad been repaid, • portion of these repayments might
be re-briaird ; and in. ether eases, where the state
of the country required it, • further pompons-
ment of the repayment of former advances should be
granted. As to the question whether or not there ought to
bo an inquiry into the operation of the pool law in Ireland,
this was not the time to discuss such a proposition. It was
rather too much to say that they should pass a law one
Fusion and seek to inquire into its operation in the nest,
before the parties charged with its execution had had time
to carry it into full effect. (Hen, hear.) From some parts
of Ireland he had heard that there was scarcely enough
raised from the rates to keep the people alive, while in other
districts he rec, sued satisfactory accounts that the poor law
was working beneficially. The time might come when it
would be well to look into its working • and then, to any
amendment which might be suggested the government
would be ready to consider it, with a view to make the ex-
isting law more perfect and beneficial. (Hear, bear.)
Mr. SADLEIR said that, under all the circumstances
which surrounded the question, he felt bound to give this
bill his support. At the same time he must remind the
noble lord that the local authorities in Ireland had been left
no discretion In the selection of the public works which had
been undertaken under the first sot which had been pawed
on this subject. It the expenditure on many of those works
was returned to the house, he thought it would be found
that much had gone in cigars and bode water for the officers
sent to carry the act into operation, rather than to the popu-
lation for whose benefit the law was intended. No good
would be done until the area of taxation was reduced for
poor law purposes. It was monstrous that in Ireland there
should only be 130 unions, while in England there were
upwards of GOO. Ile felt satisfied that sooner or later the
areas of the Irish unions must be diminished.
Mr. R. AI. FOX decried the works which had already
been carried on by the government in Ireland, and contended
that more discretion in their selection ought to be I,:ft in the
hands of the local authorities.
Mr. P. SCROFE couteuded, that 'without looking to
France for an example, Ireland had herself proved that no
government could beneficially undertake to feed and employ
the population of any country. The works undertaken iu
1846 had been wholly unproductive, and he was firmly con-
vinced that with no result the expenditure of public money
had not only been useless, but profligate. He maintained
that all advances made should be absolutely repayable, and
from the repayment there ought to be no escape. If this
principle was followed he would undertake to say that in the
whole western district of Ireland, including Mayo and the
barony of Erris, instead of the lands remaining waste, they
would be made by their owners productive, and able to
maintain the population resident upon them.
Mr. P. S. BUTLER thought the proposition now made
by the government neither unreasonable nor reprehensible—
it was demanded by the urgency of the case. The present
time required the legislature to deal with facts and not with
theories, and therefore, regarding the preeent measure as
-e of practical utility, he should give it his most cordial

support.
Mr. GOULBURN, in the absence of Mr. Stafford, was
understood to withdraw the amendment, and the bill was
then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on
Monday next.
WAYS AND MEANS.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE-
QUER, the house resolved itself into a committee of ways
and means, when the right hon. gentleman took a formal
vote of money out of the consolidated fund for supplies already
voted. The house resumed, and the report was ordered to
be received on Monday.
POOR REMOVAL BILL.
On the order of the day for the consideration of the Lords'
amendments to this bill,
'(he SPEAKER observed that some of those amendments
might be held to be an interference with the privileges of
this house.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it had been customary,
on bills
to
connected with the administration of the poor law, to waive
that consideration ; and he skould recommend the house to
do so in the present instance.
Mr. BAINES said that the amendments were not such as
to interfere at all with the principle of the bill.
After a convers.itiou the amendments were agreed to.
PLACES OF WORSHIP SITES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
On the motion that the report on this bill should be

received,
Sir J. GRAHAM said he had intended to take the sense
of the house on an amendment which he meant to propose,
and which went to the principle of the bill; but as the mo-
tion had come on rather unexpectedly (it being fixed for
half-put eleven), he would postpone his motion till the next
star:
Lord J. RUSSELL had no objection to this course, pro-
vided the discussion was not allowed to tattiere with the
progress of other public business.
Alter a few words from Sir R. 'Notts the report was
received.
SAVINGS BANKS IN IRELAND.
Mr. REYNOLDS morel far a select committee to inquire
into and report on the laws regulating savings banks in Ire-
land, and on the large deficiencies in several branches of
those bulky, in consequence of frauds committed by the
officers, with a view to amendment of the law, and the better
security and protection of the depositor'.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it wu
his intention to introduce a bill oaths subject, and he, there-
fore, hoped the hon. member would not press his motion.
Mr. HUNIE asked when the bill would be brought in ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said almost
inissedletely • the bill Ivu already drawn.
Mr. H. A.'IIERBERT hoped the hon. member for Dub.
fin would not postpone his motion.
Mr. REYNOLDS said the subject was one of vital im-
portance. He had been anxious to amend the management
of savings' banks, and to give to the depositors that security
which they now erroneously believed themselves to possess.
By the failure of the St. Peter's savings bank in Dublin the
depositors had lost 50,0001. ; and if this sum was not recover-
able from the government, he hoped the trustees would be
made liable for it. Though he wu unwilling to press his
motion, after the Chancellor of the Exchequer had promised
to bring in a bill, he trusted that bill would provide for ye-
inibutsing those poor persons for the losses they had suffered.
Ile would postpone his motion till that day week.
The house adjourned at 20 minutes after 0.

ELECTION CONIMITTEE.—YESTERDAY.
DI:BLIN.—As on tho previous day the time of the
committee was taken up with the arguments of the learned
counsel on both sides. No vote was struck off.

Zhe erpreiso.

MAILS.
The Wert India Mails, excluding Bermuda, Nassau, Havanna
Honduran, New Orlearu., Vera Cruz, Tampico, and Porto Rico, and
including those for Madeira, Jaernel, Cart hagena, Santa Martha,
Magma, PAMIIIIII, West Coast of South Americo, and tit. Juan-ile-
NieleagUA, will be made up on the morning of the 17th July.
The mails for Vigo, Oporto, Linton, Madeira, Cadiz, awl Gibraltar
will be made up on the morning of the 17th July.
The overland mails lot Gibraltar, Malts, Greece, the lonian Islands,
Egypt, madeylon, India, llong-Kong, and China, no Southamp-
ton, will be up on the morning of the 20th July.
Ihe mails for British North America, and the United States,
will be mace up en the evening of the 21st July.
The overland closed walla, in Marseiles to the Meditenean,
Egypt, Aden, Ceylon. Hong-Hoag, &e., will be made calm on the
evening ache 24th July.
The malls for New south Wales, Van Dieman's Land, and New
Zealand will be made op mi the evening of the 316 July.
The malls for the West Went of Africa and Madeira will be made
up on the evening of the 31st July.
The mails for the Brazils, the River Plate, Monte Video, Pernam-
buco. &ibis, Madeira, and Buenos Ayres, will be made tap on the
evening of the 4th August.

NOTICE TO ADVERTISERS.
The number of STAMPS issued by the authorities of the
Stamp-ottioe, during 1847, to the
DAILY NEWS was 3.447,009
This, we believe, is within eight per cent. of the number
issued to the Morning Herald, A/or/sing Chronicle, anal
Morning Post, ALL PUT TOOETHEK.
In addition to the above, issued to the DAILY NEWS,
Morning Paper, there were issued for the Eoenins Edition,
TILE EXPRESS 778,714
Which was more, we believe, than were lensed either to
the Globe or Standa►d, Evening Paprre.

PlOll WATER AT LONDON HRIDOR.
14,—MeraIng. 13.als.imat 11 Aftww.ea.3leslo.past .
To.ruazow—Alorns.v.66 I; Amos.% D. WA. owt 2.

LONDON, SATURDAY, JULY 15.

——- - -
THAT unfortunate Borough Elections Bill! One is
really almost tempted to ask—what is the use of
purity ? Here is poor Sir JOHN HARMER, who has
for the last four months been exposed to the unopar-
leg midnight assault of the ruthless SIBTIIORP,
thrown altogether overboard—his toil and trouble all
in vain. No one was better qualified than Sir JOHN
HANMER for the task ho undertook. It was not a
very gracious one, perhaps, and possibly it was
scarcely the sort of public duty you would hare ex-
pected a member for Hull and for Shrewsbury volun-
tarily to perform. But the occasion was important.
Sir JOHN lIANMIIR looked around him; he saw no
purists by profession rise either from the ministerial
bench he sat on, or from the opposition bench he had
deserted; so, with the great occasion rising great, he
applied himself to administer a purgeto bribery which
should beat the celebrated purge of the head of the
administration.
Lord JOHN Russia'. adopted the prescription ; bat
as Sir JOHN HANKER was meddling with a case
that fell properly under government treatment, he
undertook the charge of administering the rem&.
Tne result has been that the physician and his medi-
cine arc alike thrown out of the window ; that the
patient remains in the same state as at the commence-
ment of the scssio; ; and that a new course of treat-
ment is to be tried, of which we venture to predict
that the result will partake as little of a cure as ever.
Seriously, in how ridiculous a pos'tion have not the
government placed themselves and the country by their
conduct in this matter—how grave are the suspicions

to which that conduct Want give rite. Here we are
all shaking our heads when bribery is mentioned;
looking severe when mare told that treating exten-
sively prevailed ; apping the disfranchisement of
the Yarmouth freemen; inclining ourselves to the
opinion that Horsham is rather corrupt ; and agreeing
that though the Leicester, Derby, and Lincoln cases
for
may have been hard, yet that the late mtmbers
Kinsale, Bewdley, and Harwich were rightly served,
and that really something ought to be done with such
abominable anis of corruption as three places and a
dozen others, among which Lyme, Abingdon, and
Ipswich might perhaps be advantageously included.
Well, the first step to such a remedy is made easy
to us. Sir JOHN HANMER proposes an inquiry. The
government, who have proposed nothing, assent imme-
diately. They declare themselves so eager about the
matter, that they will undertake all the responsibility.
Sir JoUN HANMER is only too happy to invest them
with it ; and after three mones of loud professions
the affair ends by their declaring that they must
propose something else.
So, like Mr. Pecksnrs horse, here they have bee
ir
n
for the last three months making great show of the
action, but in reality getting over no ground. Every
one who remembers lioz's description of that animal
will be able to find his parallel in the action of the

government.
He was lull of promise, hut of no performance. He was
always in a manner going to go, but never going. When at
his slowest rate of travelling he would sometimes lift up his
legs so hieh, and display such mighty action, that it was
difficult to believe that he was doing less than fourteen miles
an hour ; and he was ever so perfectly satisfied with his own
speed, and so little disconcerted by opportunities of compar-
ing himself with the fastest trotters, that the illusion was
the a.ore difficult of resistance. He was a kind of animal
who infused into the breast of
whoastrngers a lively sense of
hope, and possessed all those knew him be.ter with a
grim despair.
We shall not stop to ask did ministers really mean
to do anything, or did they mean to shelve the subject
from the first ? The inquiry is too delicate. We will
only 'peak of the suspicions which such a course of
conduct neurally excites. The government we venture
to add cannot afford to encounter such suspicions.
They are as damaging—if not more damaging—than
defeats.
But now as to the future. Do the government
really mean anything by the new bill they have
brought in to supersede that thy have been playing
with ? If any one suspects that they do not, they have
themselves to thank for the circumstance. l'hey have
thrown over one measure, from which something, at
any rate, was anticipated. People thought " if we get
nothing elso from the inquiries under Sir JOHN
HANMER'S bill, at any rate we shall have exposure,
and exposure must do good." But, under the measure
now proposed, it does not seem so certain that we are
even to have that. As Lord Jous first stated its
plan it was merely to have a prospective operation ;
and that none of the best. To be sure he amended
that afterwards. " lie believed," or as some of the

papers report :
it struck him that the first clause of the bill which he pro-
posed to introduce, provided that the general election corn
mittee might appoint a select committee with regard to
boroughs in motet to w;iich election petitions bad been
tried, and these boroughs would include all those referred to
in the bill of the hon. baronet the member for the Flint
boroughs. The select committee for this purpose would be
appointel in the same mode as the other election committees,
and they would report whether further inquiry should be
made or not.
Fancy " believing" or being " struck" about ouch a
matter ' Why, that one point is the very essence of
the measure. Is anything to be done to expose and
remedy the abuses upon which the Yarmouth, Hor-
sham, Harwich, Kinsale, Bewdley, and other election
committees have reported ? That is thee question.
Lord I.ltusseti. "believes" or" it strikes him" that it
is intended to inquire. Now, we believe and it strikes
us that it is not ; and we will state very simply the
reasons why.
This is the 15th of July. The bill is not yet before
the House of Commons. It cannot be there until the
lith. It cannot pass its second reading before the
21st. It cannot be committed until the 24th. It
cannot be read a third time and sent to the House of
Lords before the 28th. When it gets to the upper
house it will have to go through an ordeil from which,
if it escapes at all, it cannot escape until the 12th of
August, and on the 12th of August " grouse shooting
begins."
After the bill has received the royal assent, the
general election committee have to appoint the select
committee, who are " to consider and report whether
further inquiry should be made or not. We fancy
the only reports heard of will be the reports of the
guns upon the moors.
So we venture to back " FRANCIS MOORE " against
Lord JOHN—all Lombard street to a China orange.
Comment upon this bill, as a prospective measure,
we reserve for another occasion. We agree with Mr.
MELLINS that it will not answer the purpose
for which it is—(shall we say) " intended. The
only valid excuse for throwing over Sir JOHN HANMEn
would have been a determination to legislate instead
of inquiring. Lord JOHN might have said, " these
L facts are strong enough, I am convicced ; I feel
• that something must be done to stop bribery and
• treating, and here is a plan to do it without further
investigation." But this is not the course he by
proposed. Whilst Sir JOHN HAMMER went for a
commission to inquire into all boroughs now or
henceforth reported guilty of bribery, Lord Joust only
proposes that election committees may have power to
report that inquiries are desirable. We prefer infi-
nitely the bolder measure of the two—the measure
Lord JOHN RUSSELL has abandoned.

Aeren nearly three centuries of persecution, and
not yet 20 years of substantial toleration and free-
dom, the Roman Catholic church has again a cathe
dral in this metropolis ; and that, too, as if in antici-
pation of great results, under the patronage of our na-
tional saint, St. GEORGE, and under the presidency
of a divine who has assumed archiepiscopal robes and
functions.
Having erected a cathedral in a style and furnished
it in a manner worthy of the architectural and orna-
mental fame of their church, Dr. WtsestsN and his
conpiyes have forced its completion on the notice of
the kingdom by the solemn and imposing way in
which they have inaugurated the public devotion to
its sacred objects—by the long succession of religions
services that have followed its opening—and by their
invitations to members of all forms of faith to witness
their celebration. Attendance has been advertised,
placarded and canvassed for, and with great success, for
its matins and vespers have been crowded by attentive,
admiring, and wealthy audiences, soothed with music,
and charmed with eloquence ; whom no surly, careless,
or mercenary attendants have left to find places as best
they could, but ,ehom polite, cheerful, and superior func-
tionaries have agreeably ushered into seats and whose
pickets have, on entrance and exit, been 'attacked
with a grace perfectly irresistible, and with plates
golden in accordance with surrounding magnificence.
Bishop has followed bishop into the handsome stone
pulpit, and thence preached to the multitudes below ;
and of the second order of the priesthood those moat
notorious for their lapse from the protestant faith
have been put forward to proclaim the claims of their
new faith on the conscience of mankind, and to pro-
phesy, with all the daring of perverts, the reconquest
of England by Rome.
These are notable occurrences. They are at once
indicative, suggestive, and instructive. Indicative of
that complete religious freedom which now exists in
this Icahn, suggestive of the aggressive character of
the Roman Catholic church therein, and instructive
of the resistance necessary to be offered thereto. We
have, of course, no sympathy with those who ascribe
the erection of this cathedral, and the courage which
has been evinced in its opening, to the righteous act
of 1829, that removed the Roman catholic disabilities.
We regard them rather as a manifestation of that
augmented and augmenting zeal, energy,and earnest-
ness, which have characterised, and which are still
characterising, all churches ; which in the Roman
church are far more to be seen in nate* and in Bel-
gium than in England; which in our own church is
to be felt in the better distribution of its revenues, in
'the increase of its episcopate, in the augmentation of
its clergy, in the extension of its school organisation,
and in additional churches; which in the Scotch church
are to be observed in that disruption that has
brought forth a rival establishment ; which in the
voluntary communities are to be noted in their anxiety
to preserve their eilucational independence, and in
their increased hostility to the maintenance of a state
church. Doubtless in England the church of Rome
has been excited to great exertions; and well she
might. Doubtless she has here put forth all her ag-
gressive strength. The violence of the bigots in our
own church produced, naturally enough, a reaction.
The fury of Exeter Hall had its revulsion in the halls
of Oxford. The vituperation of the O'Stativssis
and the M.'brEass rebounded in the conversion of the