The Express.
London, England, 1853-03-23 00:00:00

CANADA.

QUEBEC, MARCH 4.
Since my last letter the Canadian legislature has
been engaged in the discussion of questions of local
interest merely, and for that reason I abstain from
sending you a detailed account of them.
But one bill was read a second time, two days ago,
of very great importance. This was the Representa-
tion Bill—the Reform Bill of Canada. Its object is
to increase the representation from 81 members to
120, taking generally, indeed as far as the govern-
ment deem practicable, population for the basis, and
disfranchising a number of small boroughs. This
bill, if it become law, it is admitted on all hands will
make the legislature of Canada much more
democratic than at present. As you may readily
suppose, the conservatives will strain every nerve
to defeat the bill, while the reformers will do their
best to carry it. What its ultimate fate will be I
cannot say. A two-thirds vote is necessary to carry
it. This was obtained in the Assembly on its second
reading, but it is doubtful if so large a vote can be
obtained for the third reading. Local interests may
prevent that. If so, the ministry have given notice
that they will address the imperial government to
obtain a change of the Union Act, which requires
that any change in the representation should be car-
ried by a two-thirds vote.
A bill to provide for the construction of a bridge
across the St. Lawrence, at Montreal, has been read
a second time.

We have very fine weather, and it begins to show
tokens of spring.

VOr Court.

WINDSOR, MARCH 22.
The following had the honour of dining with her
Majesty yesterday :—The Duchess of Kent, the Princess
Adelaide of Rohm:llo6e, the Marquis of Breadelbane, the
Lady in Waiting to the Duchess of Kent, the Baroness de
Sped', and Lieut.-Coloael Francis Seymour (Scots Fusilier
Guards).
Sir William Molesworth arrived at the Castle this morn-
ing and remained for some hours.
The Queen and Prince, with the Princess Royal and the
Princess Alice, drove out in an open carriage this afternoon,
attended by Colonel Bouverie and Captain the lion. Dudley
de Roo.

Earl Granville (Lord President) lett town yesterday for
Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire.

Mr. John WOod, Chairman of the Board of Inland Re-
venue, and Mr. Presely had an interview with the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer yesterday at his official residence in
Downing-street.
Viscount Palmerton left town yesterday for Brighton.
DespatThes were received yesterday at the Colonial-office
from the Governors of Canada, the West Indies, West
Australia, South Australia, Hong Kong, Ceylon, and Malta.

:R MEETING ON TILE EAST
INDIA QUESTION.

A meeting of the bankers, merchants, and manu-
facturers of Manchester was held in the Town.halh yes-
terday, to consider what suggestions that community
ought to make to government or to parliament (or the
better development of the resources of British India, and
the consequent amelioration in the condition of the people.
The Mayor, Mr. R. BARNES, who had called the meeting
upon a requisition signed by upwards of one hundred
firms and individuals, presided, and opened the business.
It was one of the most numerous and influential commer-
cial meetings ever held.
Mr. THOMAS BAZLEY, president of the Manchester
Chamber of Commerce, in moving the first resolution, said
that to the mercantile and manufacturing community, of
which Manchester is the centre, the well being of the
British East Indies must be a subject of very deep interest,
and in the enlightened British opiefun on that subject
was involved the question whether in the pages
of history we should tee branded as having opprestal
and degraded 150 mihions fellow-subjects, or as having
earned undying fame tor gising to the greatest colony that
ever ealsted good and wise government, European civiliza-
tion, progress, and commerce, and the great truths and
principles of our common Christianity. By a singular co-
incidence,about three centuries ago,the people of this country
were entertaining important projects connected with those
industrial energies which wera then being developed; for
on the one hand the opening field of new America,
and on the other the far-famed treasures of the ear, were
tempting our young merchants. In tLe case of the United
States of America we saw what wonderful progress had
been made: a vast territory had been subjugated, an indus-
trious people reigned paramount, and we found there intel-
ligence, comfort, and prosperity associated. America was
at the present time the infant representative of this old and
glorious country speaking our own language, and essen-
tially having adopted our own institutions, it had become
an example fur the world. But if we turned to the British
East Indies we should find that a company of merchant.
were permitted to er.joy a monopoly of the trade of that
great country. Under that monopoly Europeans were not
permitted to settle in the country; progress was
impeded, and at the present time there was
merely a handful of Europeans on that great continent of
India. The British name was not held there in that re-
spect that it ought to be, and we had not raised there a
monument of progress that was either useful to the East
Indies or honourable to ourselves. On every hand the ex-
isting state of the East Indies was admitted to be unsatis-
factory, hut by common consent, universal attention seemed
now to be bestowed upon that vast dominion. Lord Ellen•
borough, in speaking of the condition of India in the house
of Lords, the other evening, stated that he passed, in a
march through the upper provinces of India. the vestiges of
ancient palaces, roads, works, temples, and mosques' and
all the records of good government, by which we had been
preceded, and he felt humiliated that we were exhibiting
ourselves under circumstances of disparagement, as greatly
inferior to a noble nation to which we had succeeded. The
directors of the Manchester Commercial Association and the
Manchester Chamber of Commerce, without entering on
the direct political condition of India, had agreed to recom-
mend a petition, which embraced in their opinion the eco-
nomical wants of the East Indies ; and he rose for the pur-
pose of moving :
' That the petition now read be adopted by this meeting ;
that it be engrossed and presented forthwith to both houses
of parliament ; that the petition to the Muse of Commons
be entrusted to the Right Hon. T. M. Gibson, for presenta-
tion, and that John Bright, Esq., be requested to support
the same, and that the Right Hon. the Earl of Elleaborough
be requested to present the petition to the House of Peers."
The petition was as follows :
" To the Honourable the Commons of the United King
dons of Great Britain and Ireland, in Parliament assembled.
The petition of the Bankers, Merchants, and Manufac-
turers of Manchester, in public meeting assembled,
sheweth, _

"Thai her Majesty's ministers having announced an in-
tention to submit to parliament, during the present session,
some measure for the future government of India, your peti-
tioners are anxious to record their dissatisfaction with the
limited extent of our commerce with that country, and their
regret that so little progress has been made in the develop-
ment of its rids and varied resouiees.

"That your petitioners are of opinion that, in any enact-
ment for the future government of India, the following sulk
gestions should be adopted :
" fitly. That it be regarded as the imperative duty of
the government of India to promote the cultivation of the
soil, and to remove all obstacles which impede the progress
of industry.
"2ndly. That beyond making useful experiments, the
government should not be permitted to become cultivators,
manufacturers, or traders.
" 3rdly. That in conducting their financial operations,
the government should be forbidden to become purchasers
of any kind of produce on their own account, or to receive
by hypothecation produce purchased by any other party.
" 4thly. That the government be compelled to expend a
portion of the revenues collected in India in the develop.
ment of the resources of the country, as well as to afford
every facility for its profitable occupation ; that with this
view such public works should be promoted as are calcu-
lated to facilitate intercourse with or improve the physical
condition of the population, to increase the production of
cotton and other valuable raw materials, as also to encourage
a system of general industry.
" 3thly. That ten per cent. of the revenues of India be
applied to the public works above alluded to, such as the
construction of trunk lines of railways, the formation and
improvement of roads and bridges, the deepening and other
improvement of rivers, the formation and care of reservoirs
and canals, the erection of piers, and construction of har-
bours, breakwaters, lighthouses, and all other engineering
agenc:es required in a civilised and commercial country.
" 6thly. That the application of the portion of revenue allot-
ted to useful public works be under the control of a" Board of
Works," established and conducted in India, the members
of which should have full, extensive, but defined powers.
and be nominated jointly by the imperial government and
the Indian executive.
" 7thly. That the government should give every. facility
for the permanent occupation of land, by removing the
objections so often urged to a fluctuating land tax—by en-
couraging the purchase, for cultivation, of the waste and
other lands of India—and by giving such certainty of tenure
as will insure the safe applicatien of capital to the universal
cultivation of the sail.

" Bthly. That prompt attention be paid to the rcmoval of
evils now existing In India consequent upon the uncertainty
of the due administration of justice and the prevailing

ignorance of the people.
9thly. That an annual detailed report on all Ent India
affairs should, as was formerly done, be laid before parlia-
ment by a minister of the crown.
" Your petitioners commend the foregoing propositions
to the favourable attention of your honourable house, and
humbly and earnestly pray that the same may have
statutory effect in any legislation for the future government
of India."

Dlr. J. A. TURN'S, chairman of the Commercial Associa-
tion, seconded ilia motion.
The resolution was carried.

Mr. 11ZNRT ASHWORTH, of Bolton, moved the second
resolution—" That the Manchester Chamber of Commerce
and the Manchester Commercial Association be requested
to transmit copies of the petition to the various commercial
and manufacturing bodies of the United Kingdom, request-
ing their co-operation, and inviting them to appoint de-
puties to meet in London to wait upon the President of the
Board of Control, for the purpose of conveying to him the
sentiments expressed in this petition, and also to induce in-
fluential members of parliament to give practical effect
to these requirements tad suggestions, as well as to
carry out in detail the objeeu of the present meeting."
Mr. MALCOLM Rou seconded the resolution.

Mr. JPer thought the question was whether they should
go for a renewal of the charter at all. (Hear, hear.) They
had been instrumental down here in destroying one great
monopoly, and he thought that any chartered body would
be erecting a monopoly at variance with the interests of
this country and of India. (Applause.)
Joax Baton; Esq., M.P., then came forward amidst
great cheering, and said—l have a resolution to propose,
Mr. Chairman, about which there cannot be any possible
difference of opinion—for it is with reference to the conduct
of the mayor in presiding this morning. Before doing so,
however, I may make one or two observations. The gentle-
man who spoke last appeared to me to be entirely in order
with respect to stating the importance he attaches to the
questipn of the renewal of the East India Company's char-
ter. There is one point upon which he is mistaken ; for
there is no such thing as a charter. There is an act of par-
liament upon which certain portions of the government of
India are administered by the court of directors of what
used to be the East India Company. He is also quite rea-
sonable, I think, in supposing it proper that, supposing that
the government should find it advisable—which I hope
they will not—to renew the court of East India directors,
for any time, that it should only be renewed for a very
short period ; and, therefore, although accurately speaking
he was not quite correct, yet I must say that 1 have
very strong sympathy with the views which he endeavoured
to threw before the meeting. We are here as citizens of
this great country ; but we are here too as persons inti-
mately connected with the great manufacture carried on
in this district; and I think we may very well afford, if the
meeting had been held later on in the day, to have spentn
much longer time in considering this very important ques-
tion; for I see, and I think you must all see with me, that
there is no question before us, political, commercial, or
social, so important to the welfare of this country, as the
question we are met to discuss this morning. 'I he peal-
tion in which things stand at present is, that the act under
which the directors administer the government of India
will expire on the :kith April next. At the beginning of
the last session of parliament, Lord J. Russell's govern-
! meat proposed the appointment of a committee to inquire,
I suppose, into tha operation of that government in India.
The government of the Earl of Derby appointed the com-
mittee which was sitting last session and is sitting this. In
fact there are two committees, one in each house. Now
either it was not necessary to appoint a committee at all,
or else it was necessary that the committee should conclude
its investigation before legislation is attempted. However,
that is apparently not the plan proposed by the government;
but it is proposed to bring in a bill sometime during the
session. It does not appear that it will lcks very early in the
session, but probably in the hot weather, when member,
are not so assiduous in their attendance on the House of
Commons; and, judging from the way in which these
things arc often managed, a bill niey be attempted to be
got through parliament, without cr.y considerable iliscus-
. Kinn. to renew, with trifling modih-,itions, the
existing government of India for tome ten, or it may be
twenty years to come. Now the petition that hes been
agreed to, and the speeches that have been made, have
avoided almost all reference to the question of the future

" V.i;thaicht
government of India ; they have mere!
that whatever government is established, Milan t1111:n;are
necessary to be dune that the affairs of India may be well
administered,—speaking of the economical condition of that
country,—and that the people of this country 111.,7 love
their fair benefit from our connexion with the Didion e
Aire. But I am not bound by rules so strict as there atm;
lations, or rather by such as bind those megetare
I assert here, as I have done e:aeMlitfe, that while all this is
commercial bodies by whom the y are proposed. 1 ate free to
it is
twrergteahrowduhstilci India—yet petition,
'there be lboecnaelal ionmf elllcesp er7wl:" "
homicide intends to do dime things, and ban the means of
doing them, that these resolutions and petitions are merely
so much waste paper ; and that the result of the next 1.)
20 years may show no more progress than we have se en for
the last 10 or' 4 years. (Hear.) What tale has he .n has
been sufficiently described in the speeches delivered to they
by the presidents and the vice presidents of the Chamber of
Commerce and Commercial Association; and I maintain,
; that there is no government on the face of theearth, what.
. ever it be, that pretends to be civilised iu the smallest de.
grce, against whom one-tenth part a the charges cau be
justly brought, which have been brought in the speech x of
those three gentlemen aeainst the government of the Indian,
emaire. (Applause.) We have had but government in
Ireland—and it has often been arid, with some trete, I
think, that India is twenty Irelands put together—but in
' Ireland you have roads, and you have s great deal done
that is never done or thought of in India. In fact, the
smallest, the commonest, the most indispensable thaaes that
every government, however tyrannical, has elsewhere
thought it necessary to do for toe country over whom it
rules, appear to have beta studiously and pertivacaaej I
neglected by the government of India. (Hear, hear.)
believe the whole thing springs from the iruperreetiou of
the governing machine. 1 don't charge the East Wilt
Company fur a moment with being intentionally a cruel or
oppressive or tyrannical government. I know a good maay
of the directors, and I have not the least reason to believe,
speaking of them geuerally, that they would give their coo.
sent, knowingly, to what was cruel or tvranniral in India;
but then they are a machine so constituted that it cannot
work. We have often a. en many beautiful machines
brought foe ward in mechanics, which have been admirably
finished in every respect, but somehow or other that,
was a fault, or they were on a wrong ptiaciple. and no
power could be got out of them. It is just the same with
that machine, and if you come to look over that machine
from beginning to end, you would see that it wan one of the
most complex end clumsy that the ingenuity of man ever
devised; and 1 don't believe it possible that any man could
now sit down and form a system of government so totally
unfit for the work for which it was originally (heaped.
In the lima place, the proprietors of Ent India steak, who
i are the constituency electing this government, have no
more interest in the government of the East Indies
than the proprietors of the Loucashire and Yorkshire
Railway. Their dividends and revenues arc certain,
secured by act of parliament,—secured on the
whole revenues of India,—and form not much more,
I suppose, than the 30th or 40th part of those
revenues; and therefore there is no risk of their dividends
being unpaid. They are composed of some 1,700 or 1,800
individuals, all over the three kingdoms; not a few of them
reside abroad ; one•fourth of the whole number are women;
a considerable number are foreigners ; great numbers of them
have neve• been in India, toed have no more knowledge of
the country than of any other country in the world, except
that they may have seen it on a map or atlas. Now, they
elect the court of directors. The court of directors have to
go through a system of canvassing and coaxing and pro-
mising and corruption, in order t s become directors, sorb
as members of parliament who repr'sent p:aees very different
from Manchester have unfortunately sonic knowledge of in
their political career. It has been stated, I believe, before
the committee now sitting, that the dirt of the kennel
! through which men have to crawl to get to the dirty dig-
nity of an East India director is such, that many re-
spectable, and some of the most eminent and able, men
shrink from it, and won't be contaminated with it at all.
The result is, that one third of your East India directors
have never been in India; merchants, bankers, and various
people in London, who find it very convenient to have a
position like that, and find the patronage of great use to
them, in one way or other, are elected-24 of them. Sings
out and six come in each year. Thirty of them make the
roll of the corporation. Well, their whole business, or
nearly so, is the distribution of patronage. They get 4001.
a year each as salary, but they each have patronage, the
value of which, according to the account of a man most
competent to give an opinion would, if it could be sell, he
worth 8,0001. or 10,0001. a year. To this government is
committed the whole collection of the revenue in India,
every matter which affacts the attain waish we have been
discussing this moraing. The great political questions of
India are disposed of by the board of control, which is
another body, the president of which is always a cabi.
net minister. But now observe what has been
done in the board of control. Within the last twelve
months—l mentioned it the other night in the House of
Commons—there have been no less thou four presidents of
the Board of Control. In February of last year, there were
three presidents in one month. There was Lord Broughton,
there was Mr. Fox Maule, for about three weeks, and then
there was Mr. Herries. Then in Christmas week we had
Sir Charles Wood. Only conceive that you have got a cor-
poration of 30 men in Leadenhalbetreet-21 in office—and
then you have another office in Cannon-row, with tour pre-
sidents in the course of 12 months—three in the course of a
mouth. This corporation is very powerful and very perma-
nent. The President of the Board of Control is generally a
person who has never been in India, is often a person who hu
never paid any attention to Indian subjects more than
any individual in this room. Then these two governments
somehow or other are expected to carry on a system of
administration advantageously for 100 millions of people
some thousands of miles away. It is one continued jangle
and wrangle between these two boards from January to
December. If you could have brought before the public
an accurate return of the cases in which these two bodies
have disagreed, and the compromises of strong opinions
which are made, and that both do something which neither
believes to be right, because one would not allow the other
to do what they thought to be right, you would have such
a system of things as would speedily explode the govern-
ment of India, and could not fail to bring about an im-
provement. Mr. Turner talked about being knocked
about from Cannon-row to Leadenhall-street ; and I dare
say he has been tumbled about himself in the way he de-
scribes, like everybody else. Why, if you ask a question in
the House of Commons of the President of the Board of
Control, he mumbles something across the table which re-
fers you to Leadenhall-street, and suggests that you should
make application to the court of directors. if eve move for
a return of any kind of statistics from India, you get it in
about two years—(laughter)—when the thing for which you
wanted to use them has entirely gone by ; and then they
come is such a shape that I defy any man to make the
slightest use of them. (Hear.) I do state, with perfect
sincerity, that I believe the whole of that is done in order
to confuse the public, to mystify the house, ant to make it
impossible that you should get at anything connected with
the Indian government. (Rear.) Aad the difficulties that
have arisen are so extraordinary, that no man in the House
of Commons, who has the slightest regard for his own ease,
or almost for his own reputation, will attempt to touch any-
thing connected with the Indian government. He is as
certain to be baffled as ever he touches it ; and all the force
which this great corporation can bring against him; the love
of ease, which I have found the prevailing quality with
presidents of the Board of Control; the indisposition of
government to he bothered about India ; and the House of
Commons' hate of the subject; all is brought to bear on
every man who meddles with Indian subjects ; and every man
who does so is driven back by the very hopelessness of the
task which he undertakes. (" Hear," and applause.) Now,
my idea of what government should do is this. Unless they
are prepared, during this session, to bring in a bill involving
a total change in the government of India, and placing that
government directly under the crown, and making it directly
responsible to parliament, I humbly submit that it is their
duty to pass a continuance bill for two years, or three at the
outside—say two years from the 30th April next year,
which would bring it to the 30th April, 1836—and then
during that time to allow public opinion to grow as it is now
rapidly growing through the country, to allow the question
to be fairly sifted by the press, and thoroughly investigated
by committees or commissions ' • and at the end of that period
to establish, not a government for 10 years or 20 years, with
an act of parliament terminating at a given period, but a per-
manent government that shall be rightly constructed, as a
principal machine, at home; and then you may rely upon
it that a government like that, acting through wisely
appointed agents in India, will very speedily, or as speedily
as possible, carry out the various admirable recom-
mendations contained in this petition. You may have ob-
served that I brought this subject before the House of
Commons the other evening, in putting a question to Lord
J. Russell. I bad stated to his lordship not two hours, or
indeed perhaps not one hour before I rose to put it, that I
would not ask the question if it would cause the government
any embarrassment; if they had not made up their minds
upon it, or would rather that nothing should be said upon it
for a few days. I told him that if it would be any conveni-
ence to them I would not say a word upon it,although I had
given notice of it. Lord John Russell, however, proposed
that I should ask the question. I did so, and I made
some observations which I thought necessary. You will
observe that Lord John Russell afterwards got up and was
angry at having this question submitted in such a form, or
at having so much said with regard to it. He went on the
general principle that if you really have nothing to say for
your clients you must abuse the attorney on the other side.
It is the old story that so constantly comes up; and having
no case at all, as I am sure he had none, for he did not
make even the shadow of one, he was obliged to object t 3
the question which I had put, or to the manner in which
had put it. But there was, you will observe, not a single
man in the House of Commons who spoke on either side,
except Sir Robert Inglis; and that is not much in his fa-
your—an excellent man, but a little behind on most ques-
tions—there was no other man who rose who did not re-
commend the course I proposed, that a delay should take
place before any permanent legislation was adopted.
(Cheers.) The result of that decision has been that the
question has been much discussed privately among mem-
bers of the House of Commons, and I believe firmly that a
large majority of the house are altogether differing from
the opinion Lord John Russell expressed on that ques-
tion. And another result has been the formation
of a committee or society in London to promote Indian
reform, to which I believe more than 30 mem-
bers of the House of Commons had given inneir ad-
hesion, before I left town on Saturday last ; I have
no doubt the number will greatly increase. I believe it is
quite impossible for any majority of the House of Ccu-
mone, this session, to pass any measure that eropoe's
permanently, I mean longer than two or three years, to
continue the present government of India. I am not about
to say a word with regard to those who had drawn sky
the resolutions and petition. It may be that, acting in

the capacity of resident and director of the Chamber
if Cesac.• to! reed Commercial Ai/WHIM/CI, it woo doses.
ab.e to Aston to some 'steal from what may be called
more limpid,* the political aspect of the questim, sad to
gooni.e themselves to questioaseubnected with the economi-
• sali.sonicat of Indio. Be' still I should be wanting is
Ely dote. if. being permitted to speak. here, I do ails say I
sa.si .int viseed thet at is
.our business as citisei.s--as
(pies wing something to do with the formation of pu'ilic
(pinion in this country, to insist upon this question
not loirg shilltid over at the tail too of the session by
a COStllll,l4lsa hill, psrpetuatisig a government, which, se-
eftl,r.i to the evilest-, of al its friends, has grossly sad
maa.,;.issly neglected the common duties which every
rummest owes to the pensie over whom it rules.
(Logs applaas -.) I slur: not go into the question furtner,
boson e 1-isny the cam is each Chit if one were to give
esse ev.dence contaisie4 in this book—that is the book re-
frmi so by Mr. II &airy. written by Mr. Diekiason,
oleos. i:s tinveroment under a Bureaucracy," a work
which Isloisiolneiommend every one to buy and read—it I
wee, so ge thmagh all tilt evidence, it would only be, so
far the rot, in, I/pealing the statements made by Mr.
rai:cy sad Mr. TOM, thomfore it would be out of the
gee-aims to !Age up your time with it. But I am Luis
hod that the more you look into the question, the
more yea will roe that we have grievously neglected our
dots s:ess site male in which oar governments have always
de.,;t with thie question. (Hear, hear.) You will find that
„dos, as pishlie opinion especially so long is the
mass reiol opinius of this district shall not say anything
,Bast it, that we ehnli base this qus stion of Indiajnet
get rid wen main in the bes• way that it may, that it may go
sisep fir It) or 19 y, ors mere. India may suffer as it has
ssageesd, s ,we frigh-ful onsis may cants upon this district
boo the hawed the supply of its raw material, and then
sa, saw hit ewe smother in the fate and sty, " How guilty
were we is Isid. that when we had the chance of putting
skis ibW s.gat, we had not got the spirit and forethought,
awl the r.gerd foe our own interest, and for that of the
male..o amongst ankh we lee, to insist upon the go-
verment 'dire its duty to this country." The hon. gen-
e...el resumed his seat amid loud applause.
Mr. Hit trouu, m.r., seconded the motion.
Mr. J. Leis, of Solilleworth, easirtsted his disappoint
ment that tie mei tie; had nut given a much stronger ex-
pfvf.ioo of opiaima on this question, and wished to have
moved another resolution. had he been in order.
Mr Tlitol.l44oX. of Bolton, asked whether it was in
eoatemplotion t i hold a public meeting in reference to the
future cosi mond of ladia ?
The CUAILLMAN (Mr. Basley) said that nothing of the
sort email be originated on the present occasion ; it was
left to the
Mr. Titonassott—Then it will be understood that the
commercial community of Manchester have not as yet given
sue o; mon of the future government of India. (Applause.)
the usolutOon was carried, and the procecdia's termi-
nated.