The Express.
London, England, 1851-06-26 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.—WEDSZSDAT, JUNI 25.
The hams met at 12 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The St. Andrews and khasbec Railway Bill was read a
second time.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
VAN DIEMEN'S LAND.-111R WILLIAM DENISON-
Mr. AN STET, having pat some questions to the Under.
Secretary of State fee the Colonies relative to the state pn-
owner, Mr. 311.Manui, is Van Diemen's Land,
Mr. HAWES mid that from the information which the
governamet had at resent received it appeared that
)(Nauss—ft Mk time he believed • prisoner—lead applied
to the court kr • writ of habea: corpus, and was in COOK-
qumce brought before the court, when the return was in-
sufficient, and he was again arrested. The question was
likely to be raised again before the supreme court of the
colony. The has. and learned gentleman should have all
the information en the subject which the government might
receive.
PUBLIC HOUSES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Is mower to Mr. A. Hamra,
Mr. F. MACKENZIE said that he was anxious is eft
ea with this ball. If the base would allow him to talks
the second leading today, hr had no objection to its=
ire ferns. on the understanding that th diwuseioa
be taken at the next stage.
Mr. HASTIE observed that the feeling in Scotland eras
against the bill.
UNIVERSITIES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Before the order of the shay was mover,
Ell 0. CLERK presented a petition against the bill
frost the General Assembly of the church of Sootland,which
had been unanimously agreed to.
Mr. K ELLICE, junior, also presented a petition against
the bill from the University of St. Andrews.
Mr. COWAN, in moving the second reading of the bill,
said he wished to remove objections which might rest upon
the minds of English members, who might suppose his
measure was some thing like that which had been brought
forward by an honourable friend of his fur secular
education, and fur the abolition of religions testa
at the universities. To those members WWI MO
neacquaintel with the Scottish universities he wiled to
soy that there was scarcely any similarity in the constitue
tion of those and the }lnglis h universities, particularly as
regarded the established churches of the two counties.
Student. in Scotland were not required to reside within
the walls of the college., or to take any obligation when
they entered, or when they took honours or their degree.
The hen. memo r here read an extract, destriptive He
Scottish universities, from the report of the commissioners
appointed to inquire into those institutions, and which was
made in 1e26, and then proceeded to give a brief outline of
the history of the Scottish universities. lie reminded the
house that • lose; and fierce religious contest had been
carried on in the seventeenth century, and when the
epireopalians gained the ascendant all the chairs
of the universities were occupied by professors belonging to
that party. But at the revolution, when the race of the
Stuart. were in exile isnot William 111. upon the throne,
the aspect of things changed, and King William reluc-
tantly assented to the establishment of the presbyterian
religion in Scotland. In 1717 a test was imposed upon the
universities by the Scotch parliament, which was directed
Reinert the prelates and the papists. The object was to
prevent infidels being placed in the chain of the universi-
ties, or eatholice, or rouse who belonged to the party of
the Stuart., and the measure was carried out fur the purpoec
of ejecting *enrol of the professor who were known to he at-
tached to the peel stie Caine and adheren ts to the dynasty of the
Stuarts. Ile denied that the Church of Scotland, as now
established, presented any of the essential features of the
period to which ho had alluded. In 1690 an act was
depriving lot row, of patronage, in the church, whied
they
had long poseessed, and ending them in the hands of the
heritors of the parishes. The patrons, thus dispossessed,
were, in every instance, he believed, paid a suitable sum of
money, accenting to the valuation of the patronage* they
hail surrendered. It wee well kn own that at Doe time of
the Union the Scotch commissioners and the Scotch people
would not consent to that set, unless, it provided that the
doctrine and discipline of their church should be unaltered
and unalterelde. But he held that the treaty of the Union
had been violated since 1711. Never had been perpetrated
a more infamous violation of national faith, solemnly
pledged and guaranteed by the two, kingdoms, than by. the
introduce of patronage into the church since the union;
to that source might be traced the religious contentions
which hail +ince occurred in Scotland, and the two schisms
in 1742 and 17.52. 'the object of this bill was simply to
declare that such things had taken place; that various
bodies hail during the present century been driven out by
acts of the cued power, and it was but fair that they should
not euffer injury or exclusions from those rights which as
British subjects they lead a right to enjoy. The test
imposed upon the universities was aimed at the
episeopalians, the prelates, and thew who were
hostile to the Hanoverian succession, and intended
Lo prevent them from being admitted as professors to the
chain of the Scotch universities. But now, seeing that
episcepalians filled a great number of those chairs, and, as
he mint acknowledge, filled them with much credit to
themselves and benefit to the country, the object of the bill
war, to enact that they were not only entitled to those
chairs de f eels, hut de Jere; and that other dissenters—for
bishops and epireeralians were dissenters in Scotland—
should fer the future be legally entitled to hold professor-
ships. The hon. baronet the member for Oxford university
appeared, from some observations he had made, to have
assumed that religion in Scotland only existed in the esta-
blished church, and seemed to ignore the eretensions of
various bodies who did not submit to the government and
diripline of the ootahlished church. The honourable
member here quoted several details from a return pub-
lished by the free church of Scotland relative to
public echoed*, by which it appeared that up to
the end of March last 99,019 *cholera were receiving in-
'treenail in the schools supported by the members :Attie free
church, and that during a aeries of eight year the sum of
2,17.1,616/. had been subscribed by them for education,
church services, and the various enterprises they had car-
ried on abroad and at home. Re did not mention these
marten as tionoting of the body to which he had the honour
to belong, but simply es a fact which, in relation to one of
the poorest countries in the world, was not unworthy of
attention. But the hon. member for Oxford university
had assistant it to be necessary to preserve these tests fur
members of the established church, in order that the Teti-
interests of the country might not suffer.
rrwas unfortunate for the line of argument the
honourable baronet had taken that he had not
been et the last sitting of the Assembly, about
four weeks ago, when several ministers of the este-
Mieled church were Ilepowd for various offenees—sae for
poaching on the Sabbath, and another for gross and revolt-
lag immorality. The object of legislation ought to be to
give equal titans to all, and not to exalt one dam above
another. Ile gladly bore testimony to the good the men
of the establishment did shout the country, but he thought
the tests ought not to be continued, fur they hail peeved to
be the greatest absurdity that could welt be devised.
There was one test which required only the simple signa-
ture of • person entering the university, and that, he be-
lieved, constituted the whole conneeios between the uni-
versities sad the established church. It had been said
there was no necessity fur legislation, because the testa
themselves were inoperative, and he must acknowledge
that in Edinburgh, with which college he was most con-
nected, no teat had been required for 60 or 70 years. As
many epiempriliens,, therefore, were introduced into the
chain of the footsie lk universities, he asked, was it fair to
men who bed bees educated in the English universities,
and had them swam to support the supremacy of the
mows, to call upon them to perjure themselves when they
seemed the border to educate the youth of Scotland ? He
amid not conceive em basset man unless he had entirely
his religions splatem, taking such tut He did
artat re
belies that 1•••14/‘ .6
i.ry the prohowes had
the books of dogmatic and yet they wars=
upon to swear epos • 'volume wiled the Owl*
Moo of Faith, that that was the andkation of disk
hith, It meet also be borne in salad that la Het
was required by law was that the test amid he
signed. There existed no provision fee edhothe
sentiaued holding of the test. Ama Wain
his sentiments the very day alter he slywdE
and the law remained inoperative. There was me
power by which an individual who had proved himself ea
unworthy or aniltithful professor might be got rid se More
this this, an WWI whgerwald ham fm wimple is swallow-
ing Oes lest, oath cost be hope eat of ths chairs. Ile could
nethstp here
insisiantbe wash way in which the
University of was was.
The allowance by
government to the war meth below that to mem
of the same Amen esneges isethiad, sad very dillweat
teemlto that
ssesalee le tit= mestel esillswee Iffelemd.
tem r by mein the mend Med-
ia( of the bill.
r. A. HASTIE seamed the melts&
Mr. LOVICHART apposed the 1111, as calculated to de-
stroy the ?dieing art peoteetant simmeter of the Scottish
naivereitles. -The yelariple of the bin was simply to shalt
prohneilye men wise, =that they were bound la
eramleare M premeir as ef
Might melte yes M whvalegse eflUilitletion to Meal-
ewe the met dews= eligibles inereks. The tests
bed resolved is causer of the alma miasma Miriam mse
Sc-Ise drial Dv. Mavens sad all die Mbar distinguished
sass of the has etre& bed at an dime awl under an air-
'motorail, meet selieihhady edvecelad their wristrasaes,
ae keg se thry sestina in the sstabilitedent =id:lM
they hod seseded they bed alma ewe ia • eel-
*e of their inn es prsamt the admission to the 'vs of
say persons whale (whim might diem. hen their own.
He minutest that as bill obliterated the disdeetive peo-
lestantiset ea bag preserred la the Scotch universities, was
imetrery to the pisolisee of the het of Union, and invaded
11=inenes of the arlabilhed church in the northern
of the Hailed lVa
Mr. EWART disaisiltke Act of Union, any more
Sea ether statoem was bergil theof lia
if 44 doloodis "MIS 411M1111 agsWstigatfteneet. llPue cot-
• ouPPlated the mania.
8& onnT the validity of the principle on
libictestihintlZa.twabill wegladeweilidlsahmesburasSmlsjoheadist
is
nthe use of the
- time and change if eireaaebmsm. There the
lapse
of
lows moo teak°.°, to Which be belay refeeteci,"Tthaetneenhe:
doted it isezent to prem the me m, at the present
neement, although, if the division were called, he should,
vote in the allsmative.
Mr. ELLICE cosearred Ia reemmessidiaa that the bill
should be withdrawn.
After a few remarks from Mr. Hama in support of the
measure, Mr. COWAN replied, end
The house divided:
dilForat theed second reading
t
The bin was assapeatly

ENCUMBERED ESTATES LEM* eIIMILILI,
BILL.
lir. M'CULLAGII, in moving the second at Ode
hill, said be believed he should be calm
Mean of*, Mem by stating alertly do isEkt
bill lee tibia Ito asked its , saactins. • .
.
bend MOM Chart was called into. lb?
them dein two things. It wits said that the pee.
prieheper ry te•patt intent was so enebarressed that they
could aetneWements, and do% was usosentry to
have • new . In the NOM lei ilbeambo oa
that bill the hem baronet the seemher M 'Upon
mode • rens* white had bees hay Wee one by the
waste. Se sea the dime obyott ems . tn. limp am the mil
the mild dish aweembetod era IL la mimes with
Yesebbe hem reAtiimia. bit Meilmobt to mem ea
est the espesendest mead poem illueig--thet
Memo of capital would p, over boa this
oinesay le be invested in land in Ireleadl and
Mw milaw premed, in the first report laid Wore the
hem of lie yonsealbe before Baron Richards and his
odkopr thee ant ef dB/ persons who had purchased
hod waster the own Y the last 18 months, only thirty
we impels where midremse were in this country. There-
hie it Me aeltlinffi that If they wanted • substantial class
itreelhalliel OM" bt Inheil 4111117 mutt seek them not
brea IMMO hot within the oameeranity in Ireland. But
=eras aneelmo rot ereameed with the purchasers
einem. It was Mahal then searly hello( the 587
bed benne preprieems of had, he which they
WI; 0111 mall Mein LOW., intimating dis-
lb* that • they tact ma dm competition among
MIRA alliffilists. Bat the emend object that
WOO paielfini by the ionisation!, seem* commis-
sion, tie-teen it, was this—that Om • classes
should be piss& in the condition that tenants ge-
nerally wee Is, that of having these about them with ca-
pital to Ohm the had in working order, or that they
should be hilneel thew elves to lay era a moderate portion
of capital in the penman improvement of their holdings.
But tf they had • elms who, in order to obtain any tenure
of the sod, were obliged to invest the whole of their capital
in its purchase, it was evident they must wait a consider-
able time before they could obtain that improvement
which was desirable. Now, he thought every practical
man would admit that if it were possible to find •
condition by which the occupying purchaser would be
called upon to lay out only • portion of his capital, they
would obtain the best sums that could be offered fur the
estate; he meant buying the estate subject to • rental. Now
he proposed that power should be given to the Commissioners
of the Encumbered Estates Court upon the valuation which
they made in order to sell land, and which they might
make more stringent if they thought it was not
sufficient, to grant • lease to • tenant who had been in
possession for a certain time, and who placed himself out of
arrears, and who held to the amount which they had decided
entitled him to the elective franchise,—that he should be
entitled to come in and ask fur • lease after an absolute
order fur the sale of land was made. Now, whatever hon.
geutlemen might think of the rights of property, he thought
it must be confessed there was no interference here. No
one could he injured. The new purchaser would, of course,
be subject to any leaves so made, but between the out-
going of the old proprietor and the incoming of the new,
they would Five a security to the occupying tenant
which would induce him to invest his labour and capital.
Some honourable gentlemen might be apprehensive
of frauds or at least of interference with their vested rights
as landlords, and therefore he had inserted a provision to
protect that class of persons. Where a mortgagee, in order
to realise the amount of his incumbrance, came into court,
and afterwards the incumbrance was paid off and the land-
lord returned into possession, the lease would not be made
as against him. Ile did not know that it was necessary to
detain the house any longer by dwelling on the details.
If the house would consent to read the bill a second time,
they might be considered in committee. But he again
urged on the house whether something of this kind was not
necessary under present circumstances. lie did not
think that any one bill would be a panacea for the
ills of Ireland. lie did not profess to provide for those evils ,
in this bill. lie only asked them to deal with one
Ist class. A great deal more remained which this trietiiii
not touch, but it did not interfere with further
legislation, or greater legislation, which could only
be successfully attempted by government. But if he
bad shown the house that there was a class of tenants really
worthy of consideration, he would respectfully ask the
house not to dismiss the only proposition for their relief
without at least some consideration.
Mr. F. FRENCH said he trusted her Majesty's govern-
ment would not for a moment listen to this bill. If it was
a bill intituled "shill to prevent any purchasers from being
found for any encumbered estates in Ireland," he could un-
derstand it. The o'sject was that land should be altogether
leased in perpetuity as against the purchaser. Under such
circumstances, was it possible that any purchaser could be
found ?
Mr. NAPIER said, if he had thought there was • bona
itik intention of going on with this bill, he should have
given notice that it be read a second time that day six
months. To pass this bill would be to put an end to all
property in Ireland. It was this interference constantly
going on that prevented the inane of capital into Ireland.
They never knew for three months together whether some
new scheme would be introduced. Indeed, he had some-
times said that what Ireland mainly wanted was to be let
alone, with security to life and property: The bill provided
that no lease should be made till the land was actually sold.
Now, suppose that • sale was made in the Encumbered
Estates Court, what right had the commissioners to in-
terfere with the rights of the purchaser ?
Cul. DUNNE had disliked the Encumbered Estates Act
because it was confiscatory in tendency, but the present bill
was far worse and amounted to absolute robbery.
Mr. E. 11. HOULE approved of the bill so far as to wish
to have it sent before the committee for consideration on the
clauses.

---
Hr. HATCHELL said he should have risen earlier, but
he was ultimo to see whether there was a second member
of the house who would support this bill. He conceived
that it was objectionable, nut only in its details, but in its
principle. He thought there could not be a more ob-
noxious proposal, unsupportable by any principle,
that any body of commissioners appointed for a particular
purpose with a temporary power, should be constituted into
• body to administer the property of the landlords in Ire-
land which was encumbered. to • greater or less extent. To
say that land should be leased out on the terms prescribed
by this bill was utterly irrecoucileable with the rights of
property, and therefore it was that he opposed the bill.
In conclusion, he begged to move that the bill be read a
second time that day three months.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD said that, under existing circum-
stances, the occupying tenant had no motive whatever for
improving the land. The improvement .hould be made by
either the occupying tenant or the landlord. The landlord,
even if he had the inclination, had not the means of ex-
pending capital in improvements. Therefore some system
should be adopted, such as compensating the occupying te-
' nant for any capital expended by him in improvements, to
remedy the present defective state of landholding. (Hear.)
What wasthe cause of the low rate of purchase obtained
for property under the encumbered estates commission ?
Simply because the purchases were valued at a nominal
income. (Hear, hear.) In the last session the noble lord
at the head of her Majesty's government, pledged himself
to bring in a bill this session to remedy the present
state of things; but it bad not appeared. He hoped
the right honourable secretary for Ireland would give
the house to understand that a measure would be se•
riously considered by her Majesty's ministers, if not in the
present at farthest in the next session, with a view to be
brought forward to meet the difficulties of the case. (Hear,
hear.)
The house then divided—
For the second reading
Against
94-79
LANDLORD AND TENANT BILL.
The amendments to this bill were considered and agreed
to; and the bill (waned to be read • third time to-morrew
(this day).
GUNPOWDER STORES (LIVERPOOL) EXIIMP-
TION REPEAL BILL.
This bill was read • third time and passed.
MEDICAL CHARITIES (IRELAND) BILL.
The hones having gone into committee on this bill,
On clause 1,
Lord NAAS observed that the bill involved a novel
principle, and one of an important nature. It was the first
time that a proposition was line& late that braes for the
levying of taxes tMegi*Abe maim of As posolow ma-
chinery for purposes for Arm aloe semodoest by
that art.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE oloonot that the reason was
this, noting omeli be mew oosidestsey than tip poossat
mode of =milli as sopoisl sena Tbs
alteration to nobs INN_ fa
new, as, with regarditeo.Clbeuffnistuffiffiqpne in
order to justify grand juries to smostion a pletieular
amount of rate for their empg=it wee nentsfeng {bra en
equivalent sum slid* ha = halo or pubis
subscription. The poetise slob vow Is be Ulm
from the landed proprietor ea Iteretofiwe repoonoloi
by the subscription which he pia. The returns of sob.
scriptious and amounts of taim voted for the support or
these establishments ehseeed dot in 1845 they came to
170,0001. ; in 1646, MASK la 1547, 122,000/. ; and in
1843.113,000/. IntAngestleffille number of dispensaries
.vu ;41 ;in '46, 670; 1011,41111111; 48. 655. lin opinion was
that if these dispensaries wens properly distributed over the
country that a knee number would be amply sufficient.
Ile believed 465 well distributed and well managed dispen-
saries would be sufficient for the wants of the population.
Now as regarded the infirmaries and hospitals, their num-
ber was considerable. In 184,3 they amounted to 108 ; in
1316, to 137; in 1847, to 130 ; in 1848, to 107 ; and he be-
lieved that, by adopting the system of district hospitals, •
very large number of them would be done away with.
(Hear, hear.) From the calculations he had made he be-
lieved that, if the districts were properly marked out and
defined, 74 district general hospitals, each with 66
beds, would be sufficient for the treatment of all diseases.
They were also to take into consideration the great expense
of the temporary hospitals which had to he erected occa-
sionally in certain towns in Ireland in consequence of the
defective system now pursued. A great saving would also
be effected in respect to vaccination, which had hitherto
proved very cep: naive, while, at the same time, being
very defective. He thought be bad dispelled the allusion
as to the increased cost of the new system now proposed.
Ile hoped he had also shown how large was the conside-
ration due to the poor of Ireland whom it was, by this new
system, sought to benefit
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON, who thought that the state-
ment of the right bon. gentleman was, on the whole, satis-
factory, moved the first of a set of amendments of which he
had given notice ; in clause 1, line 3, to strait out the
word " and," and substitute the word " or." His object
' was to do away with the restriction as to the qua/Imi=