The Express.
London, England, 1849-06-27 00:00:00

opinion of
the
how
house
of
mummies,
sad that
it was not eon. I Lord J. RUSSELL objected to
nitihe:obise. bthaero
lefdor aa
laapardtiicetilaced—it's
Mend to be a stigma on them. 11 it was no stigma on questi .ns in committee which had been already decided
Meem why should it be held to be such on the Jews? when they discussed the principle of the measure be.
be their proposing to make it possible for Jews to be returned them. (Hear, hear.)
by a Christian Constituency they could not expect them the committee ea to the question of the area of taxat
to have much myropsthy wi.ll the interests and concern- did not think the committee would be inclined to adopt ba
of those whom they represented. The moot dprelate propoliban of the hon. baronet. The hon. baronet said be
roe Mr.
few words f,rommr.hlcr.oSs.oHLLEyn,aulimaT,
AiSier.Js..PecieuttewM.
(wthheiet rhelobeeissehopeooftheDeinhbvliniledwi.thtoithdaeht seuiebtlleartasy
hofi"mitnhdeefoier
clause.
ausaefraidie hwiseeprhoopoet
hitiolnandligedhte
cbitheecal,
divisions,
would be :es:
was not to serve Chriatianity, boot to remove a stigma from class of landlorile only would be benefited by it.
the Jews, that he would give his vote for this bill. He,
however, urged upon them that tho meting of the measure
would be productive of the utmost injury to Christianity. FORD, the amendment was withdrawn,
Mr. STAFFORD said that the house having last emu
question cow to
.d settled was what no
decided by a large majority that there should be • "
If they passed the bill they could not calculate upon the
number of men that may be returned for different can-
meaattinigaiuembesheOualealt. be
I a maramil
most advisatie course to levyeea
the 7e. who* had been nth.
stituencies. They well knew what the po wet of moneLw
with the different constituencies of this country. The V
cited at once, sod from the electoral divth
could not measure the power which the Jew s would obtain
by being admitted into parliament. They were ER knit to -
proposed under the clause, to levy fits from the I
gether in different parts of the earth, that their
that
1111 i
division, and any further sum that . might be ree.ecteteuirede"
from the union. It was extremely advisable that the culth
interest would be very great; and the same thie g which
made their interest great would supply them with what was
raters of
.land and the rate-payers should know Mot
necessary to procure seats in the legutia'ure. A peat
evil
wweohiultdb
sahroinuld fbrre
eepeetheeenptedrinicindpelepenbedeinnugy cahfrrieueoo,.obueet
wordse i "five shillngs " the words " seven shillings,"
:act position. He, therefore, moved to substitute fir te
considerations. It was a special danger to than who tang lit
that they should not increase the mono) power without in - Mr. GROGAN seconded the amendment.
creasing with it those things which ought to direct and moo
prelate who question just suggested by the hon. seconder, where, after me
Lord J. RUSSELL said thet those who ouppcoted the
ie. were spent, any rating out of the electoral division mug.
dify the money power. (Hear.)
come. The hon. gentleman pointed to the consolidated
hon. g •ntlemen opposite must certainly all put the lama
Lord BROUGHAM said that the right rev,
fund ; now the supposition of the government was, that
had just sat ,:own first dealt with the argument made in fa-
taking the electoral division rate as propos- ti, and the union
your of this bill that, inasmuch as they had admitted Jews
rate together, there would be no need at all of such addl.
to the judgment seat and many other civil otficts, they would
Clonal resources. Take the example put on the precedim
now be acting inconsistently is refusing them admittance to
night by the hon. member for Caren of a union having tio
**legislature. In controverting that ugument the right
rev.. potato said that in a judicial capacity a judge
charge the particular electoral dion with St., and divide
had nothing more to do than to administer laws
according to rules which were laid down. He (Lord
the other bs. among all the electoral disisione, the particular
electoral divisions, one of which is charged with a rate of
Brougham) would remind the right rev. prelate that if he
division plying, say le. additional, main; Gs , another
103. in the pound. Here, in the first place, you would
were in the habit of attending courts of law, and dealing
'Ls ~ and so on, according to theme:armee, whereby the
with grand and petit juries, he would soon be convinced that
it would be Oftener] for him to do more than
ur der the propositii,n of the hon. member for Northampton.
to measure out certain *lee. Ia fact, that he
would soon discover that a very inconvenient degree whole rating required would be met, which it could not be
electoral division rate of 5e., and he woull still more with 1
of discretion was vested in him. Judges were not
as the right rev. prelate seemed to think, mere instruments shize'
IphtßeedEßbThheadildy ttehatadEenpgtlisghoemeenemmbeehr:ieeeiond.m
for administering the law. It was also argued that under Colonel DUNNE abould certainly support the maximum
this bill the money power could be exercised. At
present, however, that power could be used to have supported a rate of Is,
tig y
eta fullest
ffranalleachtisee,aleanadt, coauald tbeesailyjewb.cowniaes aadcmonVittentto. multiche. H.
HERBERT
Money could °illy operate either amongst their fellow mem. on this subject
berg of parliament or amongst electors ; and they had already Sir G. GREY said, that the speech of his hon. f •
given it scope amongst the electors. Some twelve years ago member for Hull was directed against a friend the
a great stir was made about Israelitish money employed in distinct from that now before the thetouseprcmosition quite
promotion of a Christian election. (L tughter.) If such namely, of the noble member for Aylesbury, propootion,
for a national
things were allowed was not this a great step towards doing instead of a local rating, a proposition whieh the nobl .
e lord
away with the impassable boundary of the right rev. pre- himself admitted to be destructive of local management.
late ? Not only were the laws of this country influenced by Mr. E. B. ROCHE said that it had been
members of both houses, but by every person in an official all sides that the question • of
the are undentood on
a of taxation should not
station, and above all by the electors themselves, who now be raised during toe discussion on the • but, •
might be Jews, Turks, infidels, or heretics. (Hear.) And s tand. bill; notwoli.
mg, every hon. member who had spoken had gone into
what was more, any person who was determined to hold a that subject in all its de 'ails.
• d 'ail s.
seat in parliament, provided he was not afraid of the words
"on the true faith of a Cho Wien," which had no real mean- Major BLACKALL was of opinion that if it wee de-
ing, had nothing to hinder him from doing so. Though he eirahle to encourage the investment of capital in Ireland the
should support the bill, he rather preferred that of last year, maximum rate of 6t. was tro high. If the bill were
which came openly before the house as a measure in favour' to be taken as a temporary measure, coeval and ca enduring
of the Jews. la reference to the objection about the with t'e Rate iu Aid Bill, then he might not entertain such
Christiani y of the legislature, he denied that the strong objections as he did to it; otherwise be must oppose it.
wards "on the true faith of a Christian " had any Mr. SCULLY thought that both 7s. and be were tso high
other ohj: ct than to show that the . party taking as maximum rates; but, undo, actual circumstances, he
the oath was the holder of certain political opinions ; should support the original proposition of the government,
it had no reference to his religious emit ions, but Mr. P. SCROPE swiveled the original clause.
was simply tantamount
to a declaration that he abjured the After a few words from Mr. Ceemewre,
rights of the heirs of James 11.
The Earl of CARLISLE, in reply said it was for the Mr. S. HERBERT expressed his intention t 3 support the
house to act in accordance with the course which con- amendment'
mended itself to their reason and their conscience. He had After a few words from Mr. SIIIEL and Mr. MONSELL,
pointed out, in the outset, that the bill c int ain. d other Mr. CALLAGHAN hailed the proposal of the government
clauses than those which related to the Jews; and he did as calculated greatly to advantage the country. Hitherto
not think that on th's account it was has eutitled to their the small tenant farmers had been rapidly falling into the
lordship,' favourable consideration, for it merely modified condition of paupers. But this measure would give cool-
the oaths uf supremacy, allegiance, and abjuration, in the deuce to the landed proprietors and the homers by telling
case of those members who were not Roman catholics, Jews them that there was a maximum rate, beyond which they
were already admitted to an office Lot less important in its should nut be taxed, (Hoar, hear.)
influence—the magistracy; for it was well known that a Mr. S. CRA.WFORD supported the amendment on the
Pilate on the bench might do greater berm than a Nita- ground that be opposi d all rates is aid, believing that they
demos in the council. The right rev, prelate (the Bishop of tended ultimately to the utter confiscation of property.
Oxfool) had gone at great ler gth into the religious opinions Mr. HENLEY said tha real question on which the nee
of the Jews ; but was he sure that the religious opinions of mittee was about to decide was whether the blank should be
many Christians wculd bear as severe a scrutiny ? A noble filled upwith 53 or 7s. but ; the question being in end a
lied behind him (the Earl of Shrewsbury) Lad alluded to form, 1 'a that •
the oath for catholic' as settled by the act of 1829. Ile btli -veildifficul • '
ho it
p ace
el to am a very
te e altogether,Pea
the disposition of the other house was not to disturb who
e wasw eoefeo.ylipiO) thatopinion he had ananliugaht :Oa fix amaaum
that oath ; but he should he all times ready to give rate, and he 'asked what were the plans to be adopted b
his, and for placing all classes of Christians on the came foot- the noble lord to nlieve the poor when he should have by
is this respect. His noble and learned friend who spoke haunted both his Ss. and his 2s. He sup p. se i there would
last had tightly said that, the admission of catholic, had then be what had been termed another Y " puII at the Enloe-
not been attended by any danger to proteatantion, and the quer." (Dissent from Lord J. Russell.) He Wog glad te
admission of dissenters had not been attended with danger see that the noble lord shook his head ; but he asked what
to the established clitucb, so their lordships might con- then was to be done, for he was quite sure the noble lord
fidently assume that christitnity, that faith which was would not allow the people to starve. (Hear, hear.) As
founded upon a rock that would never crumble, could not, between the question of 7s. and 55., he should vote for the
be endangered by the a imiseioa of two or three Jews to amendment; but he did so on the principle of ti • rin
either house of parliament. (Hear, hear.) maximum at as high a rate as possible.
Their lordships then divided— Sir A. BROOKE, who spoke amidst general cries for a
Contents 7O division, supported the amendment, believing that a maxi-
Non-conteuta 95
mum rate of be. was far too low to be of any avail.
The committee then divided, when the numbers were—
Majority against the bill 25 For the amendment
Their lordships immediately adjourned at half-past twelve Against it 125-77
o'clock. Sir G. GREY you proposed the insertion of certain verbel
_ _ ameedmento not printed.
Mr. STAFFORD objected to so unusual a tours?, and
recommended that they should be first printed, and then
dies:used.
Sir G. GREY told be merely proposed the words now
with the view of having them printed. (Hear.)
Lord J .RUSSELL said se it was now tour o'clock, he
would propose that the Chairman report progress, and pro-
ceed with the further consideration of the bill on Thursday
next, at half-past four o'clock.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and tke house ad-
journed until halcpast five.
The house at that hour resumed.
ROYAL COMMISSION.
Mr. Prooms, the deputy usher of the black rod, ap-
peared at the bar, and eummoi.ed the house to the House at
Lords, to hear the royal assent given to several bin (for
which see Lords' report).
SMITHFIELD MARKET.
Mr. MACKINNON gave notice that he would, on Tun-
day, the 17th July, call the attention of the house to the 1
report of the Smithfield Market Committee.
IRELAND.
Mr. HORSeIAN gave notice that on Tuesday the 17th
July, he would call the attention of the house to the general
state of Ireland.
BRITISH G U lAN it.
Mr.'IIUME gave notice that he would to-morrow move
for certain papers relating to British Guiana.
ATTORNEYS' CERTIFICATES.
Lord It. GROSVENOR postponed his motion on this
subject till next union.
THE IRISH STATE PRISONERS. COLONEL MOUNTAIN.
Sr L. O'BRIEN said he wished to put a questicn to the Mr. F. Mature at the instance of Sir H.
' H VERNEY, ex-
right hon. gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home plained the reasons why Colonel Mountain's name . did not
Department. It had been reported that cholera had appear in the Gazette amongst those of the other
India,
recent battles in
spread in the convict ship in which the state prisoners were who had received honours for the l _
of the Order of the
to be conveyed. He wished to know whether any steps had which reason was that the second c see
fat
Bath was only given to commaneers of divisions at Goole ,
been taken in consequence ?
of which C.lonel Mountain was not one.
Sir (1. GREY said there had been some cases of cholera
he believed; but other arrangements had been made for the BRITISH GUIANA.
state prisoners. Mr. HUME wished to know from the noble lord whether
received from British Guiana by
Sir L. O'BRIEN said that that statement would tend to any despatch had
ten
Governor Darkly, having continued
allay anxiety on the tut jest. He heel opposed the bid for legs- which it appeared that
.__ _
.. _ .
nst the opinion of the court
rot
relic), had
tieing the transportation of the prisoners, but now that it had taxation
.agai . l
brought in • bil for the extension of the suffrage, and if if,
paned he would not impede the course of public justice.
whether ft was in the power of the governor so to change
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
the constitution of that colony which had been so long es-
The house then went into committee on the Poorßelief
tablished.
(Ireland) Bill.
•amend- Lord J. RUSSELL said it wee quite true that Governor
Sir J. WALSH then nee to move the following
Bandy, following the example of other perooe.s et home--
menta, of which he had given notice :
I (lanehter)—had brought in a bill for the extension deb
Clause 1, lines 12 and 13, and subsequently throughout chums _ __, _ h
and 2, to substitute the words " rating district" for " electoral dist- suffrage. With regar to the other question, not having ed
sion." Clause 2, lines 27, 30, 32, 33, and 40, to substitute the words notice, he was not able to answer it at present. When he
"electoral division" for "union." In the event of the committee was in the Colonial-office he took the opinion of the law
adopting the words " rating district" in the first clause in place of officers as to the constitution of that colony, but be did not
ePetoral division," to wove the following clause : And be It enacted. .
I know how the question stood at present with regard to the ,
that from and after the ;easing of this act it phalli and may be is
for the gnaw law oomminimsers, and they are hereby required, to di. power of the crown.
vide the electoral divisions of the several unloes In Ireland into Pliell Mr. HUME said he would repeat his question tomorrow,
and PO many rating districts as to them shall seem fit; and when the ,„,cause considerable alarm had been created in the colony— •
said division of such electoral division shall have
sham duty '.'.;:e
(1 hter)—at the circumstance of one person doing th*at
by the said commisrdoner, each such noting di u non-
which it was believed hitherto required the sanction of '.he
)
statute • separate rating dlltrict for the relief of the poor now re-
sident within the mine, and no pauper or destitute person shall be Court of Policy.
entitled to relief under this set or any set for adminiaterlog relief COLONIAL GOVERNMENT.
to the destitute poor of 'retold, save and except from and on
account of the rating district so to be formed us aforesaid, in re- Sir W. MOLESWORTH then rose and begged le are to
aaa
tspe to which his legal claimfar relief arises ; and such electoral di- move that an humble address be presented to her ?haat,
Menlo, ao divided lino rating districts as aforesaid, shall continue to praying that her Majesty would be graciously please lto are
be an electoral division, for all the purposes of election of guardians point a commission to inquire into the administrate,* of her
and of representation at the board of guardians of the union within M 'est 'a colonial possessions. He made this =Wein beans
which same shall be situate. Provided always, that in forming each el 1 ~
=districts the winnentoners shall, as far as circumstances win he shared in in belief which now prevailed that our system
have regard to the boundaries of the several properties within of colonial government was, in many respects, friary and ill-
midi *Wore division, so as to form the property of each proprietor suited to the present state of Great Britain an dof the colo-
la suet electoral division (or in such unlace if they shall so think fit,) met. Therefore he maintained that it ren_uired revision;
late a separate eating district, If such pewit), shall amount in rated and for the purpose of revision he asked that a searching el-
-1 onus to the rem sma of 1
msont 4000tL;
tad*: If tbeirtastitueLl utee:d%r Laug
qs.rf
i should be made into the colonial policy of the Britoil
rlanYconinticalomme tombs sash mil se many of the adjoining pro. empire, With the permission of the hoose he would sate
polio aa to them** seem tat, se as to form • separate rating dim- aa briefly as he could what, in his r,pinion, should be
trio foe the penmen of this aet. And provided also, that no rating the smears of the inquiry, and te, what objects It
district, to he hissed under the authority of this act, shall exceed in shoal' be directed. But first, in ordt.r to satisfy the hones
rated velem the amount of 3,000/. per annam. And provided also, that there ought to be an inquiey. he would endeavour
that atoingbeeein contained shall be construed to limit or prevent produced the general convictita
Me add scenraiseloners from forming any rating districts of any to show what had
our colonial
mann extent than I,ooof, rated value
.Per annum, if it shall seem that there were grave errors ante defects in . ,
expedient and nowesary to them so to do. policy. What he meant by tb'e term " colonial policy oh.
The hon. baronet proceeded to say that it was the pressure Great Britain " was of recent date, not more than .tno hh!
of the poor law on small dames of owners in Ireland vu
quarters of a century old. For when we began m eel
rendered it necessary, in his opinion, to diminish the and of the government had had little or nothing to do with leo sad,ts
taxation. He had proposed a rated value of 3,0001. it year strictly speaking, there was no colonial policy. Our col ect. _
as the maximum area of taxation, and his object accorded were planted by adventure.rs,who left this country forma n
is
als rs to
with the view of the Boundary Commissioners, that the area reasons—some in enrol.. of the precious met .
0. _
of taxation should be 1111 near,y as possible identical with the escape from intolerance. at home, others to enjoy int l . _, 7
area of estates. The people of England objeeeted at abroad ; they. settled on the shores of America, wltlceel
present to the application of public money, because nominal sanction of the crown. Fortunately for them, i''
left
they felt that it would only stave off the evil. The conflicts in Englarea, and the weakness of the executive,_T....,
plan which he proposed would tend to remove that ob- them for many sears unmolested in the enjoyment ohecflerneie
jeot'.on. It would, perhaps, be said that this was a landlord's independence ; they flourished, their numbers iw,...san
oeetation. It was his firm belief that the great fault in the rapidly, they became wealthy and powerful. Meanogthiiil;tel;
whole of the policy of parliament was founded on the fallacy executive in this country gradually acquired
thee celonieis ;
that it wee in their power to unifies the landed proprietors attentiwa was directed to the prosperity o
in_
_._ _.,
of Ireland without injuring other classes. The results it *tempted systematically. to interferee_
..e ;noise). 7,...
of that fatal policy were meeting them at every vewoment ; the colonies resisted. Some r bell a
and the infe
turn. When he was told that this was merely tame independent ; the remainder submitted.
d_
or.
~ e
__.:.,.
a landlord's question., he replied that they could not injure sent system of colonial government was fonn edte
potortiro'r of
proprietor* without injuring the teat of the community,. rod of our old colonial empire. By far the grew,usrtion : all of
that they coul I loot benefit 'proprietors without talle*ating our modern colonial empire was of recent. acq _es_ who,
all other chine 01 society tAnsterally, it, with the exotption of the plantations ill the w ;

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TUFSDAY, JUNE 26.
The SPEAKER took the chair at 12 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

REPORTS CONSIDERED.—Airdrie Police and Muni-
cipal; Great Northern Railway (amendment of acts, de-
viations and enlargements at and near Boston, Bentley,
Lincoln, and King's Cross); Helms Reservoirs (increase ot
rates and amendment ot act, No. 2); Shrewsbury and
Birmingham Railway Acta Amendment, Branches, and
Mentions; Stirling and Dunfermline Railway (deviation of
branch to Alloa Harbour, diversion of certain works, extra-
sin of time for completing line and taking land, and amend-
ment of acts); Bills.
THIRD READlNG.—Eastern Counties and Norfolk
Railways Amalgamation Bill.