The Express.
London, England, 1849-07-07 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 7, 1849.

the motion of his hon. friend the memb:r for Middlesex,
with regard to the trials church.
Mr. MILNES arid h
he should not occupy the house more
than ba f an hour with his statement.
SAVINGS BANKS.
In answer to Capt. Fintauv,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
hued he should not be chic to take any steps with regard to
savings books this motion, although he was fully impressed
with the importance of the subject, and, but for the pressure
of other bu-iness would siready have introduced some ma-
sus in relation to it.
PUBLIC RECORDS.
Mr A..
ether he HOPE as
Illk•d the Ceancellor of the Exc
quer, whhe-
r ajesty'a government had taken any
steps to procure a suitable met puicle for the public retards
now dap cited in the chapter bows of Weeminter Abbey,
and the Norman chap 1 in the White Tower, to the great
detriment of those very interesting and important munu-

meats.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ent'rely
concurred in the detsirAbleness of rent...si.g the records to •
more suitable receptacle, hut to provide such a receptacle
would require a considerable outlay of money, and this he
was not, at present, prepared to sanction.
RISING OF THE HOUSE.
On the motion of Lora J. RUSSELL it was ordered that
the house at its rising should adjourn till Monday.
COLLISION WITH THE EUROPA.
In answer to Mr. M. Giusofe,
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the fees connected with
the collisi sn with the Europa, which bad occasioned the
sinking of an emigrant vessel. bad already b:eo communi-
cated to the government by tiie mater of the sunken vessel,
and others, and had been referred to the First Lord of the
Admiralty for his report. Sh mid it be seemed requisite
atter that report to make :urther inquiry, that inquiry wuuld
be instituted.

QUARANTINE REGULATIONS.
Mr. HUME, having obs..rvcd that quarantine had been
recently enforced Gibraltar, Malta, and several other of
Oar possessions in eh it quarter, wished to know wnether
government did not mean to marry out the recommeniatious
of the report leach bad been I sled in deprecation of qua-
famine.
Mr. LABOUCHERE replied that the nob'e Secretary
.for
Foreign Affairs had communicated with the various foreign
powers to know boo far they would be disposed to eft open
the principle of deep -ming wAti all needless q ins re-
gulations. When their answe.s were receind they should
be stated to the bathe.
STATE OF IRELAND.
Mr. HORSMAN have notice that on the 17th instant he
should move that—
" An humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying
her to take into her arociima c.nsideration the unteappv state
of Ireland ; representing that a crisis of unparallele d mag-
nitude is afilmting that meat wretched country. That the
'chief food of her population and the main product of her
agriculture has failed to a mast di:astscus extent for several
Testa ; that thereby a I cloves of her Majesty's subj eta in
Ireland have been involved in ruin; that much of its soil
has gene out of eultivaion ; the morel and physical
condt-
tion of the people lamentably degraded; and in spite of un-
exampled aid from Engl.nd, vast numbers of our fellow-
subjects have actually perished from want. That it is the
conviction of this house that the very vastness of the calamity
furnishes a well tounned hope that a wise legislation, which
comprehended the peculiar opportunity hereby offered, and
skilfully availed itself of V e elements now set free tor the
reconstruction of arieul-ural r-la, ions in Ireland, might lay
the foundation of • prospeeil hitherto unknown to
that country. T. at this Louse is co, flrmed in thi.
conviction by the evidence given before parliament by
witness: s of the highest intelligence and of the profoundest
knowledge of the actual state lend the undevelo;ol res,urces
of heisted. That from the evidence of thosq witnesses this
house is constrained painfully to acknowledge, that while
tae seta sire:laity directed to the relief of destitution since
the conineenceineot of the famine have not realised the be-
nevolent intentions of the legislature, neither have those of
a more permanent no ut: been characterised by • true dis-
cernment of the peculiar features of the crisis, or the estab-
lishment of any comprehensive policy adequate to the e mer-
gency. And this helve humbly prays her Majesty to d r.ot
the special and meted attention of net Majesty's govern-
ment to the evidence which has been laid before parliament,
teelirg assured that the ability, intormation, and practical
eta esmanship therein displayed, furnish ample mat, rids fur
a legislation at once solid, profound, sod regenerative."
CONDITION OF THE PEOPLE.
Mr. SLAN EY gay., notici Viet early next region he
should move the appointment of a committee to inquire into
the condition of the labouring classes of this c iuntry, and to
report thereon to the house from time to time.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. M J O'CONNSLL g eve notice that, on the third
reading of this lad', he should move the umiesinn ot the
third clause.
FIXED DUTY ON CORN.
Mr.HERRI ES gave notice that, on the first occasion of the
house going into committee of supjly, or ways and means,
he should call the att. rotors of the house to the condition co`
the public revenue, and to the exoediency of arliiirg to its
amount by the imposition or a Said (hey on the imp gtativn
of c ern. (Laughter and aka of " hear, hear.") lie should
have been quite ready Li go into the aubject that evening
but that he was indisposed physically.

MAURITIUS.
Mr. HUME gave notice of tie intention 'o move for cer•
dein a arrespondtoce relating to the revenue, as we under•
stood, of Mauritius.
HUNGARY.
Mr. HUME wanted to know what were our relations
with Austria at present? How we rood in relation to the
Treaty of Vienna, and whether the interference of Russia
iu the affairs of Ilongsry w. re to be taken cm putting an end
to that treaty ? We bad been put to great expense in bring-
ing about that treaty, end just as we seemed to ho about to
profit by it, its trovisions were set aside by Ru'sia and
Austria.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he underetood there would be no
interf-renee wh.tever with the Finn' Moos cf the Treaty of
Vienna by that which as, n sw taking place in Hungary. The
Russian government having tot en called upon ty the Empe-
ror of Austria to assiet in suppressing the insurrection in
Hunearv—(hear, bear)—the Emperis of Russia tad lent
his aid for that purp, a and it had loser, xp'ained to her
Majesty's reverent. nt that this was the sole rloject of his in-
terposition. Whatever opinion might in other respeca b 3
formed upon the subject, it would appear that th, proceed.
lug in question would not militate again 4 any of the st pule-
tiles of the Treary of Vienna. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME raid it would seem that certain portions of
Europe were, by an agreement already male, to be trans-
ferred to Russia, in cot aderation of her assistance to Austria
on the occasion. Did not the noble lord consider that this
cession would tend to disturb the balance of Euri.pean
power, purporting to be permanently settled by the Treaty of
Nrtenna ?
Lord J. RUSSELL replied that her Maj3sty's govern-
ment had recaiv. d nu intimation of any such agreement.
Mr. OSBORNE requested the noble lord to state on what
ground he made use of the term " insurrection in Hungary."
(Hear, hear )
Lord J. RUSSELL said the hon. gentleman's question
was rather a large one to be answered off hand. (Hear.)
Mr. OSBORNE gave the noble lord notice that he would
give him an early opportunity for a deliberate reply.
MARRIAGES AND REGISTL. RATION (SCOTLAND)
REFILL
Lord J. RUSSELL having moved that this bill be further
considered on Monday, at twelve,
Mr. F. MACKENZIE moved as an enrsiment that it
be taken into ironsideratinn that day three months.
The house divided.
The numbers were—Aye es 136
60-76

On our return to the gallery,
Mr. FORBES was on his legs. The hon. member moved
that the house do now adjourn.
Mr. F. MACKENZIE objected to the Scotch bills being
proceeded with on Monday moraine, at 12 o'clock.
Lord I. RUSSELL said he could not credit bon. Mein.
bers when they said they would oppose the progress of the
bills on Monday morning. He regretted that the time of
proceeding in them should be inconvenient; hut having, at
the general wish of the house, sacrificed a day for the pur-
pose of proceeding with the adjourned debate, he did hope
the covanment would be allowed to proceed as proposed
with the Scotch bills in the morales, as his right hen. friend
purposed, at five o'clock, to move for an advance of 500,00111.
for the purposes of Irish railway', in crder to alleviate the
distress In the western districts of that island. If, however,
the hon. member for Bucks did not proceed with hi, motion
at present, he had no objectioa to go on with the Scotch
bills at once.
Mr. DISRAELI expressed his surprise and regret at the
rousse adopted on the present occasion. He hoped his h -n.
friend would nu again divide the house, but would ado
the debste on his motion, which had excited so much inte-
rest, to proceed.
After a few words from Mr. Foucas Maectszte,
Sir R. PEEL Paid that he was anxious to address a few
words to the house on the motion of the hon. gentleman the
member for Buckinghamshire, and he must remind the
house that It had been the practice to permit a debate of im-
trortance to continue to the excluaba of other busineu until
it had been brought to a close He thought that the con-
duct of the government in giving up two nights was •
trembly liberal, and the hon. members from Scotland ought
to recollect this.
Mr. ELLIOT said that the opposition to the motion pro-
ceeded from a portion only of the Sco!ch representatives on
the other side of the house.
Tee Earl of LINCOLN reminded the bon. member that
'he Scotch representatives to whom he referred did not, like
himself, hold office. It would b. impossible for many of
those who were interested in the Scotch bills to be present on
Monday morning, and amongst those who would be absent
was his hon. friend the member for Areylehire.
Mr. A. HASTIE said that at a eneeirg of Scotch mem-
bers held in ono of the adjoining re me, not o'e had ex-
pressed himself opposed to the principle of the bile. But all
had asked for delay in order to improve their details.
Mr LOCKHART complained that the petitions from
Scotland on the suteject of the bills Lad been treated with
neglect bythe government.
Mr. HUSIR said that the select emmittee on the Sco•ch
Marriage Bill had refused to bear •.ny lay eviseeece against
the bill, notwithstanding many gentlemen had been deputed
from Scotland to state the views ustertsined by large bodies
there on the esajact. The Scotch m:mbers were not anxious
to throw out the big, on the centruy, they desired to have a
registration for Scotland, but not by means of such an imper-
fect bill at the present. He was surprised that the Chanesl-
lor of the Bashelur, who had not an available penny is the

exchequer, should sanction en additional expense of 7,0001. a
year for Scotch registration. The Reiglish registration had cost
tar more than was originally estimated, and be believed that
90001. would not cover the uliinla • annual expense, at the
same time its returns were so imp 'fact, that no court of
justice would receive them as evidence.
/dr. Formes then consented to withdraw his motion.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he would take care that the bills
should be discussed at some future stage at five o'clock.
STATE OF THE NATION —ADJOURNED DEBATE.
Mr. SLANEY rose to resume the adjourned debate. He
observed that the twill to under dismesion involved a
change in those laws which affected the great body of the
people of this realm. Toe honouree's mover had
spoken of the depreesed cooditi'n of the various classes
throughout the country, and had attributed it to the
progress of free trade and the changes ii the corn
law ; but surely the hon. gentleman, with his
ability and intelligence, must have diseove red other
curies than those, amply sufficient to account for the
depresaiiin wbieh existed For example, in the first place
there was the state of Ireland which had led to a great in-
taxa* t of pauperism in this country ; then, there was the
potato blight, not confined to Ireland merely, but spreading
over the whole nation; and again, there were the disturb-
ances which had taken place throughout Europe which had
prevented the export of our manufactures, and thereby
anted the employment of a large number of operatives.
Were not all these causes to account for the prevailing dis-
tress? (Hear, hear) As regarded the st-te of the working
&asses in our large manufacturing communities the hon.
gentleman had been met with details most ample and con-
vincing, showing that he was entirely in error in stating that
they were depressed. (Hear, hear.) He firmly be-
lieved that the low prices in the southern counties were
hut of a temporary nature, and that in a short period they
w old rise again, not, perh +pa, to an ex reme height, but at
all events, to such a moderate rate as would enable them,
with the aid of intelligence, industry, and spit it, to keep the
land in cultivation. But suppose it should turn out that they
should be obliged to reduce their rents to the amount of 10
or 15 per cent., then he asked hero. gentlemen to consider
whether every article in which they expends d their income
had not fallen in pace within the last eight or ten
years to even a g amount. (Hear, hear.) He ad-
mitted that the landed interest was pressed down, but
Jost, ad of rrmovieg the weight from the shoulders of one
put of the country to the other, they should endeavunr
to remove the evil its. lf, erd be would rude avour to state
the eon which arose from there removahlit evils, and the
dismissed condition, as regarded social comforts, of
the great body of the workieg classes. He was opposed
to the motion of the hon. member—first, because, under the
mask of inquiry into the state of the nation, it was
really to turn out the government in whom he had confi-
dence; arid, secondly, because he felt its know( bite object
was to raise the price of bread by in ens of putting a data
on pro, and although that might raise rents for a short
weld, it would be an injury to the great mass of the

people.
Mr. HAMILTON said it was his intention to confine
Moult' to the case of Ireland. The Cnanceller of
the Exchequer had in his speech avoided any par-
ticular allusion to Ireland, and the on, and learned
member for Sheffield had, in an antithesis which he (Mr.
Hamilton) did not think at all hsp; y, said that Ireland owed
ale her nearer eves to Providence and improvidence. He
took upon himself to say that Ireland's misfortunes bad at
all events been greatly aggravated by the conduct of her
Meet y's eon rnment—(heae, hear)—and that the Irish
d faculty had been increased by their policy. The Irish
Waste Lends Commit ee, of which he bad bad the honour to
be a member, made various suggestion', for the improvement
of Ireland, at the same time porn ing out clearly the weak
points in her social condition. Those mutations were,
however, not attended to by the noble lord. The noble lord's
predecessor, the tight hon. baronet, the member for Tam-
worth, hal inttodutir d au act the 9.h of Victoria, cap. 2, fur
tee purpose of providing profitable employment. That mew
sure had worked exceedingly well, and a great portion of the
money advanced had been repaid; but the noble lord, at a
time when the Ir.th member. had all left L ndoo, subati-
lute 1 for it what was called the Labour hate Act,whicb,
Luthorising the expenditure of public money without the
eligh eat lucal eontroul, had the effect of completely demoral-
ising de- people. Under that act erasion% were held eta very
short nu ice, and woe ks were presented without any reference
to th. ir utility or expense. The sums expended under that
act amounted to 4.048,2551 , anti he confidently inserted that
as much good would have bet n done with half the amount
if rap.ud d in a different manner. (Year, hear.) The
; üblec rLaele were ruin. d, others were made where there was
not the amallest traffic, and the pt ople were demoralised to
an extent which one could hardly have believed pos-
sible. Toe next ground on which he condemned the
;Awe, of ministers in regard to Ireland was their total
departure from the English principles of legislation
when they came to deal with Irish measures, and
the ir utter disregard of the opinions of Irish
int mho s Perhaps the most obvious instatce of this
was to be found in the Rate in A.'d Bill. Every one
admitted that such a measure could not be applied to Eng.
land, and, that being the cue,to force it upon Ireland, despre
the opinions of all authority on the eubje .t, was not only
objeetionable but most unjust. (Hen, hear.) Of this they
might rest assured, that until the E glish principles of legis-
lation were applied to Ireland there was no hole
of the condition of that country being ameli rated
The rate of both countries was now sufficiently pub.
Here we were beginning to feel the effect e.l nin-
eteen which, as he thoucht, had been most unveils ly intro
dined; and which, by hringirg foreign produce into
e (nip Anna wilt that of this country, had most injuriously
,eff,ca,d our industry and trade. (Hear, hear) But, in
Eoeland, they had, besides the en, rgy of the people,
capital. They had also that recuperative spirit which dis-
tinguished Englishmen. They had the popular principles
of I. ge4ation which no minteter would be able, for any
ninth of time, to violate ; but le..land without these &elven
tages, was prostrated by the visitation of the Almighty.
True, parliament had genera wily, but, as he thought, not
wisely, expended their treasures in relieving destitution only.
But no effort had been made to raise Ireland from leer
rostrate condition. In administering to her immediate
wants, they had aided in keeping her in that state of
prorration, and should, untor unate:y, another blight occur,
this want of foresight would be shown in results wOich be
feared it would be then impossible for any means to
avert. For these reasons lee felt a enstrained to vote for the
moti en, which he regarded as a vote ot censure on the go-
vernment—to which censure, as. in his opinion, their policy
had tended to aggravate the sufferings of Ireland, they were
justly liable.
Mr. HUME, before addressirg himself to the subject of
the resolution, would say a word as to what had fallen from
the hon. rntlem en who bad just sat down. That hon. gen-
t .man ti d changed against tee gone. meat that the ir neg.
feet and misrule tied produced most of the calamities under
which Ire:and laboured. Ile cools not join in blaming
them on that ground ; however much he might
upon r the rs. He had never sat in any parliament in w hich
so much time had been devoted to Irish subjects. (lie r,
hear.) If he were rightly to designate the sea ion, he might
say it had been one adj •nrned debate on Ira questions
(Hear, Lear) He believed all the members of that house and
of the goy. roment had been most anxious to devise means
which the miseries of that country might be alleviated.
lie, therefore, could not believe that her Majesty's govern-
ment were open to the censure which the bon. gentleman
would cast upon them. Ile thought that such me asurea as
the labour rats were fit and proper means to adopt f the
social redemption of the yeople of Ireland. It was true then
great differences of opinion might exist with reference to the
Irish poor law. Although a sincere supporter of that law at
the time it was enacted, he now entertained some doubts as
to how far it might or might not have been beneficial to the
government. But the government were not in any respect
to blame on that head. At the time it was pissed, it was the
universal opinion that Ireland should maintain its own poor
and therefore the hon. gentleman was rather too hal in
attributing all the blame to the government. With regard
to the Incumbered Estates Bill, he was not aware of any
measure more calculated than that for permanently raising
the Judean and giving employment to the people of Ireland.
It would give a stimulant to lab eon Had it been passed in
1847 it would have effected an imm• nse amount of good ;
but, late as it was brought forward, he had given it an
honest and conscientious vote, believing that it would greatly
tend to advance the interests of the sister country. If any
blame attached to the governm-nr, it was for not having
passed the measure at an earlier period. (Hear, hear.)
He also considered that the Rote-in. Aid Bill would
act a* a means for the promotion of industry. Having
given notice of his intention to move an amendment
to the motion of the hon. member for Buckinghamshire, he
(Mr. Hume) could enure the house that be had been most
anxious to submit th.t amendment, entertaining as be did a
very different belief front hon. members, on the
protectionist benches as to the causes of the
distress now prevailing in England. But, from
the tenour of the speech of the hon. member for
Buckinghamshire, he had been induced to abandon his ori-
ginal intention. The hon. member had not pointed out any
means for effectiog his object; he had neither told the house
who were to take the place of her Majesty's pre sent ministers,
nor the nature of the improvements which were to be mane.
its was of opinion that the details of the speech of the right
hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer afforded a
most complete answer to the accusations of the hon. member
for Buckinghamshire. (Hear.) That speech contained a
most satisfactory reply to the assertion that the free-trade
measures were the e eon of the distress. (Hear, hear.) The
hon. member for Buckinghamshire tad alluded to the late '
Lord Cieurae Beutinck, and mentioned his opinion; but he
forgot aleog-titer the statement of that noble lord, when he
pinned ow, with great ability, the distress existing in Ire-
-1 nd, and the cause of thin distress, and when he wanted
18,000,0001. to relieve it. Hun. members were very much
in the habit of running away with the idea that we bad
free trade. We had no such thing. We had free trade
.n corn, but we had not free trade in a variety ,
of other articles, such as butter, cheese, eve, and '
rice. He wished to have a real free trade. He was
anxious that all duties on raw materiale, on all articles of
food, on everything that entered into the consumption of
the muses of the people should be removed. (Cheers.) Hon.
untlemen who were so desirous of attributing the distress
to the tepeal of the corn laws, seemed to keep out of sight
this important fact, that when distress came upon us in
former deep, the first act of the house was to suspend
'the corn leers and let in the food. (Hear, bear.)
By the admission of food, prices become reduced,
and the lower chases were enabled to exist. He believed
that free trade was net the cause of the present distress, but
that, on the contrary, unless free trade had been effected,
we should now be in a state of still greater distress. He
attributed the distress to excessive and unequal taxation.
This was the source of the eviljand until it was removed all
the eff ens of the government would be merely palliatives.
He had been told that capital ha I quadrupled in this coun-
try of yeah. If si, he-celled fur a direct tax on main od cc.
sad lot a repeal of %bemoans, ezeise,end stamp duties.