The Express.
London, England, 1847-05-29 00:00:00

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diesildiar porhig la ea unlkoved sod praying the boom
de upheld esheothok doh number a ministers, co the
mete ;Israel iv, from as we under-
Mesitur hoserees reg 'oration bIL-Mr. W. 'anon% has
rOdbelles Loortire, earoptelalogef big solialed hos
eeratkodgeonment grant. egeesdese-Cheolo row.
SI eloolMe et leightor. pray Ow es Mu tenants* the no
dlealpeekoko-is Woos Ewa, from diumib at Ishoter, to
OW sow ant -Mr. Lovett, teem eeetTel preellideres to
Dodos. In from et the repeal arglrtbe 11111.-Mr. Boyar,
fon the orpoellen t laddenalester, le flow of the Health of
Sores at-Mr. Nwilies"from Warwishldee, in favour of the
118 retatirlittellmentsA.:o.Ctriura hos the General Munn-
lily of the Church of agtiaat the Marriages de., (Scotland)
BBL-Prom hhhop and of the Eptecopsi Church of Scot-
land, to the moo robot; wine petitions from various presbyteries in
Sealant, m the same efreet.-Mr. C. Vitutous. from SedIMR7 end
Dd.ton, raw Wolserhampion, in femur of incieding Keenan Catholics
in the governmestgreats.-Sir Dr L Ewa, Prom Westminster, in
Amur of • Medial Registration Dill-Mr. Warms, from Roman
Catholics in Warwickshire, compLaning of being excluded from the
operstito of government grants on clucation.-LorA 0. Doerr:vex,
IS petitions from verb-is ports of Ireland, in Girour of the extension
of the raLways in that country; aim a petition in favour of an ex.
traded principle of ernigratim.-Sir R. I'm, from Birmingham and
then plums, in favour of the participation of Roman Catholics In
government greats for the purposes of cdueation.-Mr. Ewan; from
Birmingham, for • direct ityrem of taxation.
RECORD R 6 IDI NOn. -NewfonndLind Government; Burgh
Police iscatilindl; Out-pensioners ((helsea and Greenwich) ; Bills.
HEBORTS.-Lase Societies; Cemeteries Clauses; Blitz.
rICII3 or MOTION.- EXCISE LAS,- Dr. BOAViIINU. an Mon.
day next, to mom for certain returns connected with the excise lams
sod to submit a motion for the revisiop of there laws,
Tex Watuvoros Srarmi.-Mr. e.'Brnant-xv, on Monday next, to
put • question to the government respecting the Wellingum statue.
Poen, st.-Mr. Iluma on Monday nest, to bring the affairs of
Pc•tietr.d, as oannected w.th British interference, under the notice of
the Muse.
NEW MEMBER.
- - - - - • •

Captain BURK. was introduced, and took the oaths and
his seat far the county °essay.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
On the motion of Lord J. Rua- ELL, it was ordered that
it, house, at its rising, should adjourn till Monday.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that on Monday he proposed to
teh • the Lords' amendment, upon the Poor Relief ( Ireland)
Bill, and upon the Lan,lcd Estates Improvement Bill, before
any ,:her buaiaess. The Chancellor of the Exchequer
week ' then proceed with the measure for carrying into effect
the r t recently pw-aa-1 with reference to the relief of the
destitut ion in Ireland. On Thursday he intended to bring
forward the Prisons Bill, involving the question of trans-
portation , and his right hon. friend would wive the third
reedi„ge, 'the Loan Discount Bill. On Monday next be would
state tithes arrangements proposed by the government with
Tderwm public business.
AFFAIRS OF PORTUGAL.

Mr. ifuja 'E nuked whether there would be any objection
to produce th e instructions under which the British autho-
rities at Lisb sa hsd been called upon to interfere in the
internal affairs of Portugal?
Lord J. RUb SELL said that at present the instructions
could not be p. soduced, but government would lay the=
before the house 55 non 53 possible.
Viscount Palms Teton entering the house at this moment, ,
Mr. HumE ask al the noble viscount whether Col. Wylde
sad the British sat amities in Portugal had threatened the
Junta with armed , =teTnaition, unless certain conditions
they named were ado Teel ?
Viscount PALMEI .STON said that her Majesty's go-
vernment, in concurren re with the governments of France,
Spain, and of Portugal herself, were engaged in measures
for the pacification of th g latter country, and pending these
arrangement, the papers a eked for could not be produced.
Sir It. PEEL asked whether the intervention of the three
pewen was the result of a separate friendly understanding
with Portugal, or was consid and a result of the Quadruple
Alliance ?
Viscount PALMERSTON replied that Portugal had cer-
tainly applied to the three powers, of preference, as being
members of the Quadruple Alliance, but the pending ar-
rangements did not at all arise tut of that alliance.
Mr. HUME then gave notice that on Monday he should
bring the subject formally before the house.
PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND).
Lord 0. BENTINCK said he understood that although
the inferior persons employed on public works in Ireland
had been very extensively dismissed, there bad been no cor-
responding diminution in the staff. Could the right hon.
gentleman give any information on the subject ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that a
great reduction had taken place in the number of superin-
tendent officers on the public works, though of course not in
proportion with the reduction in the lower claws of persons.
Since March 31, the overseen had been reduced from 11,218
to 1,000, and the check-takers from 4,835 to 2,080 ; and
further reductions were eoe.stantly going on.
TAXATION.

Mr. EWART then rose, pursumt to notice, to move—
Tbst It be expedient that a more direst spas= of taxation on pro-
Erty should (as tar as possible) be substituted for the indireetsyseent
yen.tores and crews duths, now in use. That such • change mould,
removing restrictions emoted by the Eyelet., encourage Uncle, and
the free application of Leonine to trade. That, by roaming the re-
strictions caused by custom* duties, it would extend commerce, and
be the most natural means of prolonging the peace, by promoting the
intercourse of the w,rld. That It would be highly beneficial to the
poor (who now pay the great mate of indirect to by giving
them more abundant mean, of schsistence and a empl Is-scent ;
and ernnld tend generally wad finally to the good of all elm. of the
community.
He made this motion, he said, more peculiarly on behalf
of the poor, who were at present called upon to pay a most
unequal proportion of the taxes of the country. He nom.
aidered that the taxes on articles of consumption and necem
sity should be reduced as much as possible : the deficiency
of revenue being made up by a direct tax on property. He
dwelt upon the injurious effects in every point of view, of the
duties which now Mil upon articles of provision, in general
use among the population, and contended, that according toall
experience, a reduction of there duties, while most trnefleial
to the people and to the country in a commercial point of
view, would not in reality be injurious to the revenue.
Haling said so much for the customs, he now came to the
'stew. It would be recollected that an inquiry into the
working of the excise laws had taken place in 1833, when a
great many valuable suggestions were made. He believed
that our present system of excise laws was so complex, that
to carry it out properly would require at least a million of
officer,. Some of the excise duties—that on soap, for
instance—weighed heavily on the poorer classes, and militated
greatly againet that cleanliness which was an essential to
health. Then there was the tax on paper, which could not
be too soon repealed. That duty was levied first in the reign
of Queen Anne, as it was then slated, to help the war to a
conclusion, and to bring about a lasting peace. Queen Anne's
peace had long sine* been brought about, and, therefore,
there remained no excuse for maintaining the duty on paper.
Bat it was not so much the duty on ;mete as the vexatious
mode of its collection which annoyed the manufacturer and
consumer. The raw material of paper consisted of the
sweepings of the cotton factory. Now cotton was free of
customs duty, but the moment it came under the excise to
be manufactured into a paper, a duty was immediately
leviable. That duty demanded instant repeal. The English
language was destined to be the language of the civilised
world, and it would be unwise to retain such restrictions as
prevented its diesemination. There were many articles,
bricks for instance, the excise on which pressed heavily on
the productive classes of the community. In the article of
spirits it was his wish to see the duties assimilated in the
three kingdoms, and he saw no reason why on every article
Ireland should not bear her fair share of the national
hurthens. He had not dwelt on the window duties, although
he believed no one would contend for their continuation, but
had confined himself to the principal features of the customs
and excise, believing that their present arrangement acted as
serious checks on the trade and commerce of the country.
There was one duty to which he had not an yet alluded, and
which pressed most unequally on different classes of the
community—he meant the stamp duty. By the mode of
rating, a fifty pound mortgage paid fifty times as much
stamp duty, in proportion, as one for 50,0001. For all this
cumbrous and inefficient machinery he would substitute a
general system of direct taxation, believing that it would
not only elevate the morals of the people, but would go Be
towards securing the peace of the world. A reduction in
the tobacco duties would consolidate our relation, with
America, and we were encouraged to that by the late redoes
lions in the American tariff. Since those reductions the
A merican mutates receipts had increased 200,000 d01e.% month.
He did not wish to precipitate any sudden or dangerous
change, his only object in making the motion being to bring
the subject under the consideration of the house and the
country, with a view to the gradual and safe introduction of
sound principles. (Cheers.)
Mr. HUME seconded the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER— As
it wotud be his duty, in the course of the next ses-
sion, to call the attention of the house to the important
subject of taxation generally—(hear, hear)—and as
they would then have to deal with that tax in
which the principle of direct taxation was immediately
involved—the income-tax—and to decide whether that tax
should be made permanent, and perhaps increased, or whe-
ther they should return to the system of indirect taxation,
his hon. Mesa must encase him if he refrained from entering
into the various items to which he had referred. (Hear,
hear.) He feared, however, that in any system of taxation
he might have to bring forward, he should, as all his prede-
cessors had done, fail in making the taxes, whether direct
or indirect, palatable to thceewho had to pay them. (" Hear,
hear," and a laugh.) All he could do was to endeavour as
fur as he could to apportion them fairly upon all classes of
the community. (Hear, hear.) Looking at the position he
held. and being anxious as fer as possible to prevent prema-
ture discussion on a subject which must at • comparatively
early period come fully under the consideration of parlia-
ment, he felt it right to alatain from any observations be-
yond the general declaration he had made. (Hear.)
Mr. R. YORKE advised his hon. friend, after the assur-
ance which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had given that
the whole subject of taxation would be brought under
notice next session, to withdraw his motion,
Mr. HU3I E thought the time had come when the house
should coati ler how the largest revenue could be levied at the
smallest expense, and hoped his hon. friend would succeed in
obtaining a general expression of opinion as to the alnolute
neces ity of altering the unjust, unequal, and immoral sys-
tem of indirect taxation, so that the people might know what
they had to expect from their present members. There
would soon he en opportunity of choosing • new house of
commons, and it would depend nn the convituencies them-
wives whether they would revues men who would pledge
themselves to a reduction of taxation generally, the substitus

Ow of direst for indirect taw, and the abolition of those
aboard excise restrictions which crippled our manufactures.
He called upon the government to economise, and to begin
by pulsing down the fora now employed on the coast of
Africa, whiels every nasal man admitted was not only useless
for its object, but miechleyoue, and which cost the country a
million a year.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS complained of the great and grow-
ing IMINIMIIIeIa the estimates. This year they were no less
thew sem masa, above those of 1835. Unfortunately for
tb. wartime dams they bad not the means of ensuring the
return of these ammilers who would attend to their interests.
At present men *ma half the income of those classes went
in payment of tense ea the necessaries of life.
After a few words from Cal. SIBTIIOIIP,
Mr. EWA.RT withdrew his motion, and the house went
Into committee of
SUPPLY—MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES.
On the first vote, 77,8061. for the Mint,
Mr. HUME objected that this establishment did not, like
those of a similar character in other countries, support itself.
He also complained of the expense attending the recoining
of light gold, and that the abuses shown by the inquiry of
1837 to exist had not been redressed.
Mr. SHELL replied that it was necessary to guard ega:net
loss; and notwithstanding the large amount of gold that had
been coined and recoined, nn lost to the public had oce.wred.
To ensure perfect security, the pr. sent expense was neces-
sary. The committee of 1837 had not made any report, but
if his hon. friend would move to renew the inquiry he did
not think there would be any objection.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said. the great objection was, that
the direction was placed in the hands of a private company,
instead of in those of the government,
Sir O. CLERK observed that the private company was
tk contractor, mad they were under the control of the go-
vernment. It might he a valid objection, that the terms of
the contract were unfavourable to the public, but looking
at the risk and the uncertainty of the demand, he did not
think they were so.
After a short conversation,
Mr. TIIORNELY begged to inquire if it was intended
to ions any new description of coin.
Mr. SHEIL said he had consulted his right hon. friend
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with respect to the form
of the new coin, and the subject was still under his conside-
ration, and he (Mr. Shed) had given instructions that err ry-
thing necessary for coining two shilling pieces should be
kept in readiness.
After some further conversation, the vote was agreed to.
On the vote of 17,0001. to defray the expenses of the
commissioners of railways,
Col. SIBTUORP objected to the expense of the com-
mission, and thought it might be steed to the country by a
poundage to be rod by railway companies.
Mr. HUDSON also objected to the expense of a board,
which he thought of no public benefit. Ile thought the
btuiness was better conducted under the railway department
of the Board of Trade. The selection of the commissioners,
three in number, was not such as to cause their decisions to
be respected, not one of them understanding anything of
railways. He himself performed duties more onerous with-
out assistance. The expense was enormous, and if any hon.
memher was to move for the abolition of the board he would
vote for it.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that it
was a mistake to suppose that 17,0001. was the annual en-
penis of the board. This sum was for a year and a half, and
the annual expense was about 12,0001. only. With regard
to the economical arrangements of the hon. member for
Sunderland, it should be remembered that he participated in
the profits ; and it was much to b • doubted if a large num-
ber of official men, in fifteen or twenty years, put to much
into their pockets. This board was established on the die-
tinctly expressed opinion of the house, at the recommends-
lion of committees which inquired into the subject of rail-
ways. The hon. member f.r Sunderland complained that
no railway members were connected with the board, but it
was doubtful if that would give weight to their decision on
the score of impartiality—and the object was to appoint ru-
tlemen unconnected with railways. His right hon. friend
at the head of the beard was, it could not be doubted, a
most proper person to be appointed ; and as legal knowledge
was required, Sir. E. Ryan, who lied disediard a juilicisl
office is India with great talent mid credit, was also appointed;
and the third commissioner wan an engineer officer of the
highest character for judgment, discrimination, and profes-
sional skill ; and from the reports which had been laid on
the table it was apparent that they had performed their
duties in a manner most beneficial to the public. The.
greater part of the other official persona were transferred
from the rai:way department of the board of trade to the
present departmeat., so that the increase was only in the
board itself

Col. SIBTHORP thought the board ought to be em.
played in ascertaining what compensation should be given to
persons who wet. injured by aczidents on railways. In the
late accident on the Chester Railway, four persons had been
killed, and thirteen disabled; but he had not heard that
there was any intention of giving compensation to the sin,
vivors or the relatives of the deceased.

Mr. STRUTT said the ease alluded to by the hon. and
gallant member was provided fur by an act of last session,
which gave compensation to the relatives of persons who
were killed, and remedied that anomaly in the law which
had previously existed, by which persons injured were en
titled to compensation, but none was given to the surviving
relatives of persons killed. The commission paid to no doty
more attention than that of inquiring into the causes
of accidents. In the case alluded to, an engineer
officer w►s sent to make an inquiry, and it was found to be
PO serious that Mr. Walker, the eminent civil engineer, bad
been sasoeiated with him. Communications had also been
made to the Belida of Admiralty and Ordnance, and they
would also send official persons to inquire into the matter.
After a few words from Mr. Hums and Mr. Wita.tams,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER koped that
a discussion would not be continued now, which would come
I on better when the Railway Bill was before the house.
Mr. HUDSON (in answer to some remarks from Mr.
WILLIAYS) said that at the proper time he should be pre-
pared is & fend the course he had taken with regard to the
area, on the line. with which he was connected. Although
it had been explained that 17,0001. was not the annual
expense of the b.ard, he still thought 12,0001. too much.

ME asked if there was any return by which it
could be ascertained how many third class estmages were
kept, in which passengers were not allowed to sit down ?

Mr.
M STIIUTT said that by an act passed two yearn ago,
every railway was obliged to have one train a day in which
passengers were conveyed in close carriages for a penny a
mile, and at a rate not less than twelve miles an hour ; but
they were still at liberty to have trains at any price, or of
any description, over which the commissioners had no
controul.

The vote was then agreed to.
On the next vote of 1.2,8121. to defray the salaries and ex-
penses of the officers connected with the keeping of the pub-
lic records, being proposed,
Mr. PROTH EROR thought the vote extravagant when
regard was had to the insecurity of the depositaries in Poets'
Corner, at the Rolls Chapel, at the Tower, and in the old
Riding House in Carlton Gardens. He wished to
know if the government contemplated the erection of a
suitable depositary for these valuable documents, and, if
so, he must express a hope that the new building would not
be erected in the outrageous Gothic style which character-
ised the new houses of parliament, but would be of the sim-
ple Italian school of architecture.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed that
it was desirable the public records should be deposited in a
place of security, and that the present arrangement, were
most unsatisfactory. On this subject a communication had
some time been pending between his right hon, friend the
Home Secretary and the Matter of the Rolls, and the notion
of placing the records in the new Houses of Parliament had
been given up, and it was expected that a site for an appro-
priate building for their reception would'bo obtained on the
Rolls' estate in Chancery-lane, but some time would be re-
quired before possession could be obtained of the ground.
Dr. BOWRING inquired whether an arrangement would
be made to collect the earlier historians ?

Alter a few words from Mr. FROTHERO E.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was
taken by surprise with the question, and was not prepared
at the moment to give an answer to it.
The vote was then agreed te, as were also a vote of 13,0341.
to defray the salaries and expense of the inspectors of fac-
tories and mines, and a vote of 1,7551. to defray the salaries
and to provide for the Queen's plates, run for at races in
Scotland.
The next vote proposed was for 83641. to defray the sala-
ries and expenses of the householl of the Lord Lieutenant
of Ireland.
Dr. BOWRING objected to the sum of 1,6741. (incladed
in this vote) for Queen's plates to be run for in Ireland, or,
in other wordx, to encourage gambling and horse-racing.
At • time when Ireland was suffering from famine, pesti-
lence, and disease, he thought it unreasonable and inhuman
to propose such a vote.
Mr. LABOUCHERE defended the vote, on the ground
that it contributed not only to encourage an improved breed
of horses in Ireland, but to gratify the people of that country.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS concurred in the views expressed by
the hon. member for Bolton (Dr. Bovrring), and moved, so
an amendment. that the vote be reduced by the sum of
1,5741., the amount specified as being to be applied for
Queen's plates.
The gallery was cleared, but no division took place, the
vote being agreed to, as was also (we understood) a vote for
the payment of the salaries, &c., of the officers of the privy
council office.
The next vote proposed was for a sum of 5,1351., to defray
the expenses of the department of the paymaster of the civil
services in Ireland.
Mr. HUME repeated his objections to the continuance of
the office and establishment of Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland.
He thought the system most mischievous, and only calculated
to raise political cabals. Under present exiting circum-
stances, he would not came a discussion on the question,
but, if ha should have a seat in the new parliament, he
would not allow the first session to pass without bringing the
question of the propriety of abolishing the office and tune-
uons of the Lord. Lieutenant of Ireland under the serious

consideration of the leg slature.
Mr. LABOUCHERE was of opinion that the question
was not one of expense, but whether the continuance of the
present arrangement wee for the benefit of Ireland. He
should not wish to pronounce a hasty opinion on the quer
lion, and was glad that, ■t the present moment, looking at
the state of that portion of the realm, the discussion was not
raised.

The vote wet then agreed to, and after a few words from
Sir K. FEROUSON, the CHANCELLOR of the Eicucciunt,
and Mr. HIINLEY, the sum of 27,0281. was voted to defray
the salaries and expenses of the officers of the Board of
Works is Ireland.

On the vote of 39,0001 to defray the charges of the foreign
and nave west services being proposed,
Dr. BO WILING inquired what balauee remained in hand
out of the sums which had been voted under this head for
many 3 ears ;mat

; The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that
the ism wee takes on en average of years, and the vote one
year with another covered the expense.
Mr. HUME wholly and entirely objected to this vote,
which was expended in bribing a set of fellows who were n t
worth their salt—(a laugh)—to fusuish statements which in
the end could not be relied upon. Witness Spain and Portu-
gal at the present moment.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS remarked, that the impression on
the pubic mind was, that the sum was expended by the go-
vernment in electioneering purposes; and without some ex-
planation from the government, it would be difficult to re-
move that impression from the public mind.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could and
did state that the impression, if it existed, was totally and
altogether withont foundation. The oath required to be
taken by every Secretary of State prevented such an appli-
cation of the public money.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the Tote of 200,5131. for the expense of stationery,
printing, &e.,
asked why so large an increase had
taken place in this item ? There was an increase of 68,0001.
over the vote of 1345.

Mr. PARKER was underaton2 to say that a great portion
of the increase was due t the demand for blue books and
parliamentsry inquiries.
After s low words from Mr. CARDWELL,

Mr. HUME said there was a want of control in the
printing department, which rendered it impossible to ascer-
tain the expense of the printing of each paper. In every
instaace of a paper being moved for, the cast to the public
ought to be stated. (Hear, hear.) He should be very glad
if such an arrangement were adopted. He hoped the secre-
tary of the Treasury would see that it was carried out, so
that each printed paper might show its own cost.
Mr. CARDWELL said that to curry this out would cost
so much as the printing itself.
Dr. BO WRING said that was not at all probable.
Mr. HUME said this showed the character of secretaries
to the Treasury. They ought to pay the same attention to
the Tre isury accounts as they would to their own private
mounts,
. .

After some further observations front Mr. CARDWZLL and
Mr. Hums,
Lord G. BENTINCK said he should be glad to Fee a
statement of the ripen•e of printing all the useless papers
that had been moved for by the two hon. members opposite
(Mr. Hume and Dr. Bowring).
Mr. HUME said the noble lord had no right to call the
papers useless without proof. He would himself, on Mon-
day, move for a detailed account of the cost of all the returns.
gir W. CLAY said he had never known any useless papers
moved for by the hon. member for Montrose. Those papers
had been the means of diffusing the greatest information.
Mr. PARKER was understood to state that the matter
wan not under the control of tto Secretary to the Tieuury.
Mr. WILLIAMS !IV/ no difficulty in making out the
account attic printing of the different papers in the course
of a single night. The increase in this estima,e was per-
fectly enormous. He was certain the matter could not be
properly looked after.
Dr. BO WHIN 0 slid it was undoubtedlytrue that returns
were sometimes made more than once. It was desirable
that, before returns were ordered, steps should be taken to
ascertain whether the information was not already in pos-
session of the house. For himself, he had never moved for
any returns because he was asked to do so, nor for any that
had not reference to measures before the house.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
the discussion a v.ry unprofitable one. Still he thought it
would be well it some censorship were established over the
making of returns; for it was impovible fir members of
the government,—when asked across the table if they ob-
jected to such and such returns,—to be certain whether such
returns had not been already made. An to the amount of
the items, he believed the printing, which was all executed
by contract, was done as cheaply as was con-istent with the
efficient performance of the duty, and with the demands made
by bon. members. One source of increase had been, the
printing of forms and correspondence connected with the
execution of the public works in Ireland.
Mr. HENLEY asked what portion of tho increase was
referable to the printing of parliamentary papers, and how
much to other sources of expenditure?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
increase in the cat of the parliamentary papers was
15,0001.
In answer to a question from Mr. ARKWRIO
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
annual report of the poor-law commissioners, and other of
their documents, were ineluil,d in this item, the Treasury
being of course responsible fur the expenditure.
Atter a few words from Mr. Hume, Mr. Henley, the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, and Mr. Parker, the vote was
agreed to, as were the following, without discussion
9.6001. for expenses attending the prosecution of offenders
in England and Wales.
16,1001. for expenses incurred be the sheriffs, in connexion
with the administration of the law.

13,3681. for salaries and expenses connected with the In-
solvent Debtors' Court.

61,0601. (or expen.es connected with the
the law in Scotland.

12,509/. for expenses of the court buildings, and other law
cleaves in Ireland.
188,0001. for gaol expenses and other charges, formerly
paid out of the county rates.
Mr. M. SUTTON asked, on this vote, how many additional
prisoners were to be retained in county gaols, in consequence
of the recent alteration of our system of policy as to trans-
portation ?
Sir G. GREY said prisoners would only be retained in
prisons, such as Wake6eld and Millbank, in which there
were cells and other arrangements for punishments.
Mr. HENLEY complained that the counties suffered by
their arrangements with the government for the maintenance
of prisoners.
Dr. BU WRING wished to know what were the view, of
the Home Secretary on the subjects of prison discipline and
capital punishments? Would he give an assurance that good
conduct in prisons would be considered with a view to miti-
gate punishments
Sir O. OREY declined to go into the large questions on
which the hon. member wished to know his views. lie
begged to remind him, however, that goad condiLet was
at the present time considered in mitigating punishMnts.
14,3451.. to defray the expenses of Parkhurst prison.
Mr. HUME thought this prison scarcely so useful as it
might be. Colonisation would be much preferable.
Sir G. GREY, on the contrary, was of opinion that ea an ,
experiment it had entirely succeed. d. The best accounts
were received of the conduct of the boys thus removed from
the contamination of a gaol.
Mr. WILLIAMS had understood, on the other hand, that
the conduct of SUMO of the boys was of the moat profligate
description. Each boy cost 201. per annum for maintenance.
Surely it would be cheap. r to send them abroad at once.
18.3071., to defray the expenses of rent mville prison.
Mr. WILLIAMS said this prison was most extravagantly
conducted. Each prisoner seat 361. 12s. a year. The cost of
officers fee attending on each felon was 151. 6s. annually;
more than was paid in wages by ninny respectuttle
He hoped it was not to be considered a model.
Sir G. GREY hoped that the coat of this prison would be
in future years decreased. It had, no doubt, been expen-
sively though not extravagantly conducted.
Mr. WILLIAMS said that the expense of providing per-
sons in this prison to teach the prisoners various handicrafts
actually exceeded by nearly one-hall the value of the goods
produced by the prisoners.
Mr. HENLEY did not think But this prison was extrava-
gantly conducted. Under the solitary system, prisoners
required a higher diet.
Mr. HUME observed that the enormous expense of
prisoners showed how much cheaper and better prevention
would be than punishment. Here did every prisoner cost
from 12s. to 14.. per week ; while honest, hardworking
labourers with families lived upon 10s. or lls. (Hear, hear.)
The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote wet 30,9851. to defray the expense of the
MiUbank prison.—Agreed M.
The next vote was 8,3121. to defray the expense of the
prison at Perth.—Agreed to.
The following votes were agreed to : 3,1231. for the convict
depot at Dublin ; 10,0001. towards founding and supporting
the general prison for convicts in Ireland ; 4,2021. for the cost
of lunatic convicts at Bedlam; 6,2931. fur erecting a lunatic
asylum for convicts at Dublin; 11,100/. for Inspectors of
police; 35,9001. towards the expense of tho metropolitan
police, Dublin; 118,0001. to defray the expense of convict
establishments at home, Bermuda, Malta, and Gibraltar.
200,0001. to defray the expenses of convicts in New South
Wales and Van Diemen's Laud.
On the proposal of 100,0001. to enable the Lord-Lieutenant
f Ireland to issue money for education in that country,
Mr. HUME asked the Secretary for Ireland to explain,
working of the present system.

Mr. LABOUCHERE said the result of the experiment
was most satisfactory. Thera were at the present time 3,637
schools attended by 456,410 children, protestant as well as
catholic, the increase within the year being 211 schools and
23,506 scholars. Onethird of the children were protestants,
1,600 of the schools being situated in Ulster. There were
about 300 teachers in training, of whom one-fifth were pro-
testant.; they were lodged and educated together in perfect
harmony.
Mr. MACARTRY suggested that more attention should
be paid to training in practical agriculture.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that that subject had received
considerable attention. Instruction in sgricultore bad
already been given in the training schools, and he antici-
pated the greatest benefit from the diffusion of such know-
ledge through the instrumentality of the masters.
The vote was then agreed to.
6,5001. School of Design.
2,0061. Professors—Oxford and Cambridge.
4,5361. London University.
After an observation from Mr. Hume, the vote was
agreed to. . _

'3OOl. for the Royal Irish Academy.
300/. for the Royal Hibernian Academy.
6,0001. for the Royal Dublin Society.
2,6001. for the Belfast Academiral Institution.
47,9591. for the British Museum Buildings.
3,1521. for the expenses of antiquities.
On the *rite of .5,5371. for the National Gallery and pur-
sue of picture being propued,
Mr. lIUME said he hoped an end would be put to the
purchase of pictures, in consequence of the impositions which
had been practised on the trustees. In one instance he an.
derstood that a copy of a work had been purchased as an
original, and that a sum of money had been offered to the
seller if he would take bark the picture. In other instances
larger sums had been given for pictures to picture dealers
than the same works had been offered for to other individuals.
He therefore thought that, till they had better rules and better
examiners, • stop should be pot to the purchase of pictures
in future. With regorl to the cleaning of eietures, as opinions
were various m the questim whether lie; were imprue'd
by the scrubbing or not, he thought that it would be advi-
sable to put an end to the practice.

The CHANCELLOR of tbe EXCHEQUER said that the
principal picture which had been bought was the "Boar
unt," by Velesquer. This belonged to Lord Cowley, and
cost 3,5201., but it was bought by the trustees for 2,200/.
The pictures which had been bought by them were below
the value, in some cases; and, where what was considered
too high a price had been given, it was dons in acrordance
with the opinions of the most eminent picture dealers and
judges.
Col. T. WOOD hoped that no more pictures should be
bought till they had a fitter place fol. keeping them. The
present gallery was in a most filthy state, and persons went
in there to lounge instead of to see the pictures. He thought
that only cleanly-dressed persons 'mould be allowed in.
Mr. HUME hoped that there would be no restriction on
perrins going to see the gallery. (Hear, hear.)
The voto was then agreed to, as were the following :
8,9611. for the geological survey of Great Britain and
Ireland.
4,0941. for scientific works and experiments at the Cape
of Good Hope, New Zealand, &c.
2,0001. towards completing the monument in Trafalger-
square to the memory of Lord Nelson.
Lard MORPETH, In answer to a question front Mr.
Hvate, said he did not expect that this suns would be sut
&lent to complete the monument. The original estimate
had been 12,000!., but to carry cut the whole of the design
probably 16,0001. would be required. The sum called for
was all that was required for the works proposed to be
carried out in the present year.
Mr. P. BORTIIWICK complained of the ill proportions
of the column.
The vote was agreed to, as were the following:
4,0191. civil establishments in the Bermudas.
3,0701. civil establishment at l'rince Edward's Island.
4001. civil establishment for relief of shipwrecked mariners
at Sable Island.
13,680/, for civil establishments in Western Aerica.
7,5001., for civil establishments at St. Helena.
7,2901., for civil establishment+ in Westeru Australia.
1,2401., for the settlement of Port Essington.
5,5001., for expenses of government of Falkland Islands.
36,0001., for the colony of New Zealand.

, -
On this vote,
Mr. HUME objected, that as New Zealand had now the
power of governing herself, she had no right to cal upon this
country for assistance.
Mr. HAVES hoped that his hon. friend would allow the
act of parliament to come fairly into operation, which gave
that power to the colony, before he refused the vote. Con-
sidering the energy the colony had displayed, there was but
little doubt that if left to itself it would henceforth be enabled
to govern itself from its own resources.
The vote wu agreed to.
The fullon ing votes were then agreed to:
1,0231. to defray the expense of the establishment at Heli-
goland.
18,0001. for the salaries, &c , of governors and lieutenant-
governors of the West India Colonies. •
11,0781. for a similar purpose for the North American
Colonies.

15,0001. to defray the Indian department of Canada.
On the sum of 23,81:51. being proposed, to defray the
charge of the Colonial Lands and Emigration Board,
Mr. V. SMITH objected to the payment, out of this fund,
of a salary to a third emigration commissioner, who was
originally appointed Assistant Unier•Seeretary for the
Colonies.
Mr. HAWES defended the appointment, on the ground
of the great addition to the duties of the emigration office,
consequent on the number of emigrants that were annually
sent abroad, and which had much increased, particularly as
the whole of the Coolie emigration had been committed to
their charge. . .

Mr. HUME said that as there were fourteen emigration
agent., he could not see what was the use of such a number
of commissioners.

Mr. HAWES said it was the duty of the commissioners to
see that the provisions of the Passengers' Act were carried
out, and it was found necessary to appoint an assistant to
some of the agents, in consequence of the great increase is
the number of emigrants that were to be embarked, amount.
ing to 124,000 in the present year.
Mr. V. SMITH repeated his objection to the appointment
of a third commissioner. _

_ ..... _
The vote was, however, agreed to. On the next vote of
41,6001. to pay the salaries of the stipendiary magistrates in
the West India Colonies being proposed,
Mr. HUME urged that this was an uncalled for and use-
less expenditure. The necessity of stipendiary magistrates
ceased on the completion of the apprenticeship course to
which the negro population was subjected under the Slavery
Abolition Act. If these functionaries werc to be retained,
it ought to be at the expense of the colonists themselves.
Mr. V. SMITH supported the vote, and remarked that a
considerable reduction under this head of expenditure had
been effected.

After a short conversation, in which Mr. W. William*, the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Borthwick, and Mr. Hume
took part, the vote was avreed to.
On the neat vote of 118,9101. for consular agents abroad
being propo.ed,
Mr. HUME objected to further proceedings at the :ad-
vanced hour which had now arrived. _

After a short conversation, the vote was not persisted in,
the house resumed, and the Chairman, having reported pro-
gress, obtained :cave to sit &Milli on Monday next.
DRAINAGE OF LANDS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
On the motion for the house to go into committee on
this bill,
Mr. F. MACKENZIE opposed the motion.
Alter a few words from Si, 0. Gary, the committee was
postponed till Monday.
FEES IN COURTS OF LAW AND EQUITY.
. .

Yr. WATSON moved: "That it be an instruction to
the select committee on fees in courts of law and equity, to
include within their inquiry and extend the terms of the
order of reference to the ecclesiastical Lonna and the courts
of Admiralty.'"
Agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. WAKLEY, Col. T. Wood was
added to the select committee on medical regisiration.
The house adjourned at five minutes to one o'clock.