The Express.
London, England, 1849-06-19 00:00:00

that the law could inflict, and it was
lienialatittlesgeounsity of the English people, acting u-on
a---Woni Ate, du: had led to any,c =mutation (Heir
Did gay oas mesa to vaert that the prooner really wanted
MM
b,„O ? (Hear, hear.) Did any one, pretending to
110 a nitro, "WI" 117 that if the gown
fawn her
4.0 monist, they might not 'till be hseged ? (Hear,
) law lawy motion around. (lir. Reynolds:
se, no.") The exc came from a gentleman
ggis 'gonad who did not understand English. Of course he
magma esnain his meaning to that gentleness 's maniac-
dam (A tient) But there were lawyers ci every piile,
nag beached them one and all vsh thee, U the spirit which
miellectet is their young days were abroad,the intesei.'a
gonna might not be Dent to Ireland, and the prise:mem all
wowed withiu forty-eight keen? (Hear, hear.) But such
oaths improved spirit of the peseene list,. that ministers, in
eledirsee to public °plaice, llud advised her Majesty grts-
own to commute the extreme poutty, and the object Of
lae resent bill wee wren to rearm any doubt or difflmlty
thst ought ',and ift the a cy
of th nat beevolent ohj-et. Hew
rr et oes-i:.1) to opp-se such a bit He asked the how
sodlestu-d member opposite, who had moved the &moti-
✓es., sot to oppose the a coed reading. The hon. and
booed ',ember asked to be heard by counsel at the bar, tad
he (lie Ito back) was ready to accede to the proposition,
amough he muss motes* that his mind was fully mode up
es the matter. Bat there cooli be no doubt about the bill
melt which was a seerotal d.claration of the law and not a
lowan of tetro-active character. He hailei it ..II the cam
meneonent of • sear ; but, even if it did ace p iss, be nos
lot to be told the law, as it bad been declared, could not be
ferried oat fa the prevent case.
After • few words in explanstioa from Mr. GODSON,
Mr. FOX hoped that the house would not some to • severe
&liana, or be induced to prevent the hearing et contort so
Waif of the orteeners, by the arguments of one who had
Wien been the hired advocate of r-bela (Order )
Mr. ROEBUCK—I argued that they shouid be heard by
Omiteel. (Rear, bear.) Now, I s,y to the bon. menthes who
WOE sis.ken, that when be as e-:s that I was the hired
advocate of r. bets, he etates that which is simply a falsehood.
(Order, ceder.)
The SPEAKER.—The hon. and learned asember's ex-
preset-ins are not parliamentary. I toot he will retract
'hens (Haar, hear.)
Mr. ROZBI.ICIL—I will retract that which was saw-
liamientary.
Mr. (RATTAN observed that if the hon. and learned
Member would alter his manner of allading to other hon.
membtrs, it would conduce much to the dignity of the
house.
Mr. F. FRENCH rose 'n order. Tha immediate question
was rot whether coons I should b' heard on this bill, hut
whither the boo. and :earned member for Skein .1d shout'
withdraw expressions which woe not tonally t iterated in
that house.
The SPEAIiER—I understood the hon. and learned
member to withdraw the expression. Have I understood
him aright ?
Mr. ROEBUCK—If I have said anything contrary to the
rules of this house, I retract, it at once, bat I trust that
the houae will delenel me from unjust imputations
(Hear, hear.) I must rep. at the most direct
denial of the hon. member's atsertion, an merlon made
wi•hout proof, one which I have denied eeversl timer, and
which according to the roles of honourable opposition ought
never to have been mode. (lieu, hose.) I trust that the
house will (cause me for haviug transgressed ruler. I owe
it an apology, for having done so, but to the hon. member
who mode the assertion I owe no apology.
Mr. DRAT r.ts very much doubted the courage of the
bon. and learned munher, although he made such a display
of it in that house. But it the hon. and learned member
would persist in throwing himself in the way of the Irish
memh-ra hi must not be surprised if they sometimes trod on
him. ( Laughter.) The bon. and 'corneal member talked
of m-tuauiiw y nrd humanity, but if governm set wi-bed to
practise humanity, why not inarieoo these iedivi-
du ils ? Bet that was sot their objert, their object
was panishmeot and pinelty. T..e he.. and learned
IlltratWr said that it would be better to hang the pri-
toners tlian that they shou'd be let oat on the pleas of petti-
fog :ing lawyers. But hail that been the practice in other
coo ttros during recent events ? In Franca thousands had
been killed is the Knots, but not one irsurgent bad been
exacate d t wept the asausins of Oen. Boa. Even in Ire-
L ads Clam and Castlereagh had acted more
'untidily, having merely sent thou convicted of po-
litical offences out of Europe. But thee' unfotusse
men were to he sent to a place which hid been
represent el by its own governor as • perfect hell.
lie shoal 1 support the amendment.
Mr.O'FLAHERTY regretted that forahigh eonstituti ;nal
printiple • tune of virulence had been substituted, even by
English lawyers, in the conideration of this queson.
He appestat to the English Wu. s of C ova its
lir as act of joule. and of mercy to give these untor-
theme men a hair and impartial hosing bye:too:waled • he ir bar.
The house divided—For the motion 178
Far Vet amendment—. 31-117
On the question that the bill it: n'.w read a second time,
lilt. ANSTEY complained of the ire event haste and
undue precipitation with which it '-au attempted to
force the bill through parliament, and of the epparent &-
sin to prevent discussion upon it. There had been
stonier bills brought forward in former doss, and the pro-
moters of them had invariably been the whirt ; and, boles
it was a remark chic tact that it was only through the tories
of England that the liberties of the subject had ever been
viodiestsol co I enforced. (Lauchti r and applause.) Now,
the present bill not only violated the prang dive of the
410.11, hot tt she violated the Wooly of the subjeet. A' it
was a deeloodery act, it would be difficult if not 'moonlike
An the titiess art future to 'an any one 'ententel to
capital punishment in Trek e scoot upon the condition
that he be transported fee life. (Heat.) He had
never denied the reality of the rebellion of last year.
He objected to parliament moonlit/ the defects of the law
°SWIM of the crown In Ireland. The measure ought to
have been debated enewher.., where the judges of the 1184
could have ghee their opna (Loud cries of " Divide.")
If he were supported by the Irish membeis, the bill must
undergo many alterations before it paned into a law. He
110T*4 that the debate be now adjourned,
Mr. OSBORNE seconded the amendment.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR twitted the hon. member for Youghal
with laciarawney, after supporting the Habeas Carpets
Suspension Art.
Mr. ANSTEY and he had total against it.
Mr. NAPIER said that after the di liberate and careful
omaideratio house had gives to the mouse., he *might
any farther slowssion Waisted, and he would Dot be • party
to offering any further obstruction to the bill.
Mr. KEOGH also suggested that the opposition should not
be further pressed.
Mr. E 11 ROCHE thought it desirable, after the case of
thew unfortunate gentlemen had b -en rimed is the bands
of the hon. and learned memher for Dahlia University, that
the opposition should not be further persisted in. (Loud
cries of " Divide," and "Agree.")
Mr. 3. O'CONNELL thought it would be batter to have
a disisi mon the principle of the bill rather than on the
question of adjournesert.
The house then divided—
For the adjournmicat
Against it 193-186
Mr. AN iTEY denied that them was any ineoesisteney in
supporting the Crown and Government Security Bill, and
the Cotten, Bill, and opposing the presort measure.
Mr. REYNOLDS said thatkis feeling of opposition to the
bill remained unchanged. He had not spoken on the law of
the subject, baring the fear of the hon. and learned gentle-
man, the member for Sheffield, before his les. He had
heard that hon. and learned gentleman called before now the
at Sheffield blade " in that bona*, and he thought he bad that
manic also shewn some 'of the sides of a blade. (Laugh-
ter.) The hon and learned gentleman said " Will any
lawyer have the audacity to tell me so and so." (Laugh-
ter.) The hen. and learned gentleman said, "I 'peek in
EMcidreiti ern,, and not in interjections." (Laughter.) He
r. Reynolds) was surprised the hon. and learned member
not say that he spoke in proverbs. (Laughter.) It
sussed to lam that the bon. and learned gentleman stood
exceedingly well with himself, and that he would never
want a trumpeter as lug as lee himself lived.
(Laughter.) The hon. and learned gentleman, holding
the act of parliament in his hand, dared any
to quote law with him. " When I open
lauth," sold the hon. and learned gentleman, " let no
trim speak, let no man measure himself with me, for I am
the law and the pr phets " (Lauohter.) But when the
hon. and learned molest? for Kidderminster quoted the law
and the prophets the hon. and learned member for Sheffield
did not make any answer. (Hear, hese ) lie heard the
hon. and learned gentleman not only with sorrow but with
horror rake up family mature connected with the unfortu-
nate gentlemen now under sentence of death, and
doing all he could to aggravate tiler crime.. (Hear,
hear.)
Dir. ROEBUCK hoped the country would understand
what was the real question then before the house. Let it be
remembered that a number of poor uneducated Eonslimen
were tried last year for sedition, and, having been found
guilty, were trawparted ; and, iithese whose cue was wow
cusidetation, were only imprisoned, every oae of those
unfortunate men would have a right to appeal to that house
to re pi:A his sentence. (Hear, hear.) He now gave notice
that if the parties now concerned were not trans-
ported, he was resolved to ask for a mitiga-
tion of the sentence on his unfortunate countrymen.
(Cheers.) There was no ground for saying that those par-
ties had not been legally convicted. Were there any con-
sideratkes connected with the crime which lessened its
guilt ? He could imagine a Cabe in which • great section of
the community would be enabled to rise successfully against
oppression, sad in which their doing so would be is some
degree justified ; but there was nothing to take this case oat
of the eitegory of ridicule in which the hon. member for
Westmeath (Mr. H. Grattan) had placed it. But was no
insecurity, so suit-Ono, occasioned by the rebellion ? Were
these men to be excused, because any rational man would
bare predicted its failure ? Was an educated man,
who had bun accustomed to sit in that house,
to be excluet, when Coffey had been transported ? ,
(A laugh.) There was a laugh when the name of
poor Coffey was mentioned. (Hear, hear.) There was
no sympathy for him. He was only a poor man ,e he
wu not a gentleman, forsooth, and there was no Irish
patrielion to ejaculate over his fate. Transported, however,
he bad been, end so also must Mr. Smith O'Brien be, if his
(Mr. Roebuck's) countrymes were to be satisfied with the
adminis:ranon of the law. (Hear, hear.) The boa. mem-
ber for Dublin bad accused him of raking up Mr. Smith
O'Brien's family miens. had date nothing of
the kind. The right i i.. gentlemen opposite had
observed that Mr. Smith O'Brien ought to have con-
sidered his family, but he had not mid one word
on the subject. For the family he felt the deepest sympathy

—(bear, hear)—ead if any set of his cau'ol relieve their suf.
ferargs, most eagerly and earnestly would it be p ?formed.
But, at the same time, he would art forget the actual state of
the law. He had not heard any lawyer &dare that treatoo
WI a at included in the word " felony."
Mr. ANSTEY was uadentood to my that he had denied
that it was. (Hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK sontiaued—He would, than, address hi•
hon. and learned friend as if he were a logician. (Laughter.)
Felony was a genteel term, treason a specific one included
under it.
Mr. ANSTEY—It Ii not a common law term.
Mr. ROEBUCK sai 1 that after that st .tement it was me-
lees for hem to say any more. (Lat.ghter.) [Kr. Anetev
here walked atireas the room and presenteel a nook to Mr.
Roebuck, amldst the laughter of the house] The ben. and
learned member (after reading a passage keel:steed) said he
denied that it had any applicati n to the question. The
hon. member for Dublin wanted him to give the hone* a
tranillation of the word treason. [The hon. member referred
to sat just behind the hon. and learned 'lemur who was
speaking.)
Mr. REYNOLDS : I beg to declare, sir, that I am free
from that imputation. (Much laughter.)
Mr. ROEBUCK: " Felony" we. the generic word, ie.
chiding treason ; and an act pawed in the reign of Geo. I
cave the Queen the po ref of commuting the sentence for
treason to transportation. An hon. member near Inna, he did
' sot Imo, what or whom he represented, had that moment
ex.elaina d in reference to him, " Gas him rope enough,"
addiog," you know the proverb." Ton was an in-eeruption
wholly contrary to all the ussg es of that I ouse. (liter.)
Mr. BULLER 776 e to order. The hon. member for SW'
field himself h eel been using lenguazte in reference to Ireland
which no member for 'reload could listen to with patience.
Captain BERKELEY said, that sitting near the hon. and
learned member for Sheflhil, he e •old testi.y that the
interruptions to which he. hot been subjected were qe cot.-
teary to the rules of parliament.
Mr. M. O'CONNELL slid that he had observed no in-
terruption of the hon. and learned member for Shetß id.
which had not been created by extrenar provccation on hi.
Part
Mr. LAWLESS mad be vote the person who/eta observed,
ha reference to toe boo. and louse(' member for Sneffieler,
" give him rope enough," and he had said tl ie because he
wanted to put a step to the interruptions around him, so
that he might hear what the hen. and leer oed gentlemse, said.
The SPEAKER expres.cd his hope that it markt so con-
trary to the rules of parliament and so calcula.ed to impair
the dignity of the house—thear, heath—would be die-
contieued.
Mr. ROEBUCK said he had spoken loud enough and
plain enough to be understood.
Lard J. RUSSELL said he roe only for the purples of
putting it to the house whether it was eteeirable that a dis-
cussion of this kind should be continued. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. D BROWNE feared the., while the hon. member
for Sheffield punneel the tone he usually adopted in attack-
, ing the representatives of Ireland, and asper.i. g the character
of Irishmen, three remarks of which he com-
plained weld be made. The hoe. gentleman concluded by
Going he would vote against the bill.
Mr. REYNOLDS denied having use 1 the words " a pull
at the Exch. qua "on the oceuial allaied to—he sphenoid
them to the Shannon job.
Mr. LAWLESS n at lose amid marks of impatience, and
complained Teat the hon. member fur Sheffield had delibe-
rately insulted three Irish members. Ile accused the heel.
member for Longford of falsehood, the hon. member Mr
Mayo of intoxieation, aid—(eriesol " On! ")
The SPEAK hit was understood to say that the non.
member must not repeat wcrda that had been withdrawn.
Mr. LAWLESS explained that when the hon. member
for Sheffield made use of that Isogonic to the hon.
member for Mayo, he (Mr. Limnos) said to the hone
" pive him rope eanuah." The hon. member for Sheffield
had been vilest a Sakti. Id blade ; but, if he were se, he
must be one of those which was s.metimea seen in the shop
windows, which ro one could touch without cutting his
Bogert, ;ad which was of no use to the proprietor. He was
sure the @toile of Sheffield would loon be tired of the hon.
member.
The house then divided.
The numbers were—For the motion 175
Against it l9-156
The bill was then read a Fecund time.
POOR LAW (IRELAND).
The house went into committee pro lornsa on this bill.
Alta some conversation, the bill was fixed to be c >m-
onied on Thursday next at 12 o'clock.
SOAP DUTIES.
This bill was read a see end time.
MUTINY AND DESERTION (INDIA).
This bill was read a second time.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS.
This bill was committed pro forma.
RAILWAY ABANDONMENT.
This bill was read a secoad time.
ASSAULTS ;IRELAND).
The amendmetets to this bid were agreed to.
COUNTY CESS.
This bill was read a third time aid passed.
BANKRUPT LAWS CONSOLIDATION.
This bill was read a second time and referred to a select
committee.
PALACE COURT (WESTMINSTER) BILL.
This bill was read a sec n d time. Committee on Friday.
NEW BILL.
Oa the motion of the ATTORNEY GENERAL, leave
was given to introduce a bill to extend the provisions of the
aces for the mace speedy trial and punishment of juvenile
offenders, and to apply the same to the trial and pund.e.ment
of larcenies of small amount.
Oa the motion of Mr. ROEBUCK, the following gentle-
men were appointed a select committee ondebta from foreign
woo:Tomer. fur. Roebuck, Mr. Olyn, Mr. Disraeli, Mr.
S. Wortley, Mr. J. A. Smith, Mr. Charteris, Mr. H. Drum-
mond, Mr. A. Matheson, and Mr. Cardwell ; three to be the
quorum.
The house then adjourned at a quarter past one.

Mr. COBDEN paired ott' with S'r Charles Barra'
agaiost Mr. Herrin' moti m on the affairs of Canada.

ate (QPrortgiO.

OUTGOING MAILS.

TM snail. for Citraltsr, Malta, Green, the lonian Island., Egypt,
Aden, Ceylon, India, Hone-bong, and China, rid Sentimeni ton, wit.
be mad* up on the 20th orJune.
Mille for husk North Amer.ea and this United litate. will Ir.
mode up OR the MOODS of June 12.
The mails, rid Manwille4, to the Meditertanesn, Egypt, Ceylon,
hang-liong, Bs., will be envie up on the 25th June.
The malls fort Igo, Oporto, Li.bon, Madeira, Cadiz, and Gibraltar,
will hennas up on the morning of the 27th alum..
ins West ladle Made, dneluding lisrmnitA, NUO6II.
Rosanne, New Orleans, and Mexico, ant excluding those for
Mailnra, Jans-ds-Niseragas, New Granada, Chili, and Peru, will
Is made up on the morning 0( the 2nd July.
The muss toe Madeira, the Brazils, and Buenos Ayres, will be made
upon the evening of the 4th of July.

WOW WATTS AT LONDON TRIMS
Tot. TIAT-18•W I/ WA. pen 0; AfOreams. 4/ lAAI. TAW
Tv Syn.+ —Weress, sla. pia I ; Attars., ST wIT. PITI O.

LONDON, TUESDAY, JUNE 19.