The Express.
London, England, 1849-03-15 00:00:00

FINANCIAL REFORM.

MEETLNG AT LEEDS. '
Yesterday a numerous pob`io meeting of the Inha-
bitants of the borough of Leeds was held at the Court House,
in pursuits,' of a requisition caned by upwards of 600 init..
bitant householders, "To consider the propriety of petition-
ing oarliament in favour of a much larger reduction in the
estimates of the public expenditure than that proposed by
her Majesty's ministers." On the motion of Geo. Ocesdatan,
Seq., secoadet by John Chapman, Esq., the Mayor (John
Hove Straw, RN.) took the chair.
TM MAYOR, is commis" the business, said that if any
one acqueinted with Leeds looked at the names attached
as the requisition Were him, upon which the meeting had
bee.eatiede and seeing amongst them the names of many
ointhimon sirdi known and mach distinguished in the
borough the mat Weill/ante and acuteness, as well as
high respsnibdity, he would feel quite certain that the sub-
jest oleo which so large a body of requisitors had thought
desirable to invite their fellow townsmen to express en
opinion, was one of considerable importance ; sad when,
from the names attached to the requisition, he cams to look
at the requisition itself, sad saw what its object was, his
saticipations of its importance would not be disap-
points& Unquestionally, the subject was one et
greart importance. The government had—•annostassoll
intention to make certain reductions is the
public expenditure of the year ; and they were invited to
consider whether there reductions were or were not adequate
to the exigency of the case and of the times. No one ac-
quainted with the elements of our constitution would doabt
that this we. a question whichthe people of this country had
a perfect right to consider in public meeting assembled. If
there wee no difference of opinion upon that point, there
would be as little noon the general proposition that strict
economy in the disposal of money obtained from taxation was
at all times the duty of the government; and that,
if there was any one time when that duty was
of greater imports- es than another, it was in a
time of public pressure, or at a time when relief from public
burdens was peculiarly necnury, in order to afford the
people the means of escaping, as he trusted they were doing,
from the worst part of that pressure. So far he anticipated no
difference of opinion, but the question,what are the necessary
limits of the public expenditure in this country, was one of
a very different kind, and one upon which very wide and
very honest opinions may be expected to be entertained. No
one w.thld dispute that the reduction should be carried out
as far as was consistent with the honour and the credit
of the country ; but the question as to where
the limit should be fixed was last that upon which
it might be expected that gentlemen may very honestly
differ in opinion. The requisition intimated that a much
larger reduction than that proposed by government was ne-
cessary and proper ; but their requisition did not pledge any
one present to the adoption of that opinion. It was not his
intention to advocate either one view or the other, but to
adopt the course which became any gentleman who was
placed like himself in a petition in which neutrality became
a duty. Be the merits or demerits of the question to be sub-
mitted to the meeting what they might. it the effect of the
meeting should be, as he doubted not the effect of this and
similar meetings, would be, to impress upon parlia-
ment and the government, the conviction that th s
eyes of the public were directed steadily towards the public
expenditure; and that a jealous vigilance would be exec-
deed over it, and that the character and conduct of publ:e
men would be judged of by their conduct upon this ques-
tion; and, if the objects of the requisition should be attars:Let,
he should hold that they would have proved the means of
very considerable benefit to the c)antry, Upon that ground
then, at all events, without saying a word upon the propriety
of a further redaction, he thought that the gentlemen who
had called for this meeting had rendered good service to the
public by inviting
_him to call this meeting. (Haar.)
G. GOODMAN, Esq., said that the views which the
Mayor had expressed, were those with which he cordially
concurred. Ile expressed his regret that with so numer-
ously signed a requisition the attendance should have been
so limited. Hs attributed it to the hour of assembling being
fixed at the busiest hour of the day. The resolution which
he had to move was one which se much approached a
truism that it scarcely admitted of dispute. Consider-
ing the length of time that this country had been
at peace, when he looked at the large increase in
the army, navy, and the ordnance estimates of the country,
he thought that the country was not In a condition that it
ought to be. This was apparent from the fact that the ex-
penditure in those departments had increased ten millions
within the last fifteen years, and that even last year it was
eight millions and • half more than it was fourteen years
ago. It was quite true that the dominions of Great Britain
were so extensive that the sun t upon them ; yet this
increase was almost nesooountable, and ought to be
repressed, and he hoped that ere long by the influence
of religion, coupled with a better understanding of
the rights of nations, the coats of our military
and naval armaments would be reduced. He rejoiced
in the establishment of peace societies, and in the attempt
which one of our minty representatives (Mr. Cobden) was
making to enforce the conviction that arbitration between
nations was to be preferred to war. Through the operation
of the peace and the principles of free trade, the profits of
the traders were diminished, and, as this operated pretty
generally, it was important that they should neck to reduce
the burden of the national taxation ; and especially as at the
same time additional burdens were to be borne in respect of
the maintenance of the poor and the promotion of sanitary
improvement. These things justified him in signing the re-
quisition, and in proposing for the concurrence of his fellow-
townsmen.

not this tutting menders the expenditure for the support of the
civil and military establishments ot the nu loss oppressive and profuse,
Inasmuch as, wthin the last 11 years, an expenditure lees by ten
milking than that of 1848, and by eight-and-a-half millions less than
that of 1849, was found sulneient for purposes of internal Government
and the maintenance of the external security, honour, and dignity of
the empire.

Mr. Alderman CARBUTT seconded the resolution. He
congratulated the meeting that the second reading of the
Navigation Laws' Repeal Bill had been carried by a majority
of 66, a pretty satisfactory intimation that it would pus the
House of Commons; that the legislation of ancient days
was likely to give place to the enlightened principles which
governed the legislation of the present day. He need not
tell the meeting that Mr. Cobden had supported the bill,
and els° their representatve, Mr. Marshall, though his
cofleacue, Mr. Beckett, had voted on the other aide. He
felt thankful to Lord John Russell for his conduct with
regard to this measure. And with regard to the taxation of
this country,the net expenditure of the kingdom last year was
54 millions, exclusive of the cost of collection. The expenees
of collection were estimated at about seven millions, so that
the total expenditure for imperial purpose' would amount to
upwards of 60 million sterling. Yet they a'l knew that this
was but a part of the taxation to which the country was sub-
ject. They had expended during the last year on the relief
of the poor about eight malice a sterling ; the county rates
were vb int 1,250,0001., the highway rates were upwards of
one million ; and in addition to that there were various muni-
cipal rates and taxes, the amount of which he could not ac-
curately calculate ; but the sum total of the
whole had been estimated by Mr. Cobden to fall
little short of 80 millions sterling per annum.
Out of the 64 millions expended for imperial purees, 28
millions went to defray the interest of the national debt; and
as that was not an item which they could touch, for the
honour of the country was bound to pay the interest of the
public debt to the last farthing, the oilier portion of the ex-
penditure only could some under consideration ; and as
much of that other expenditure had been sanctioned by acts
of parliament, and therefore could not be touched, the
navy, army, ordnance, and miscellaneous estimates, amount-
ing perhaps to 22 millions par annum, were the only parts of
the expenditure upon which they could operate.
Mr. Carbutt then entered into the history of the
increased expenditure in the army and navy since 1835. In
that year there were rumours of a Russian invasion, which
led to an increase in the army of 6,000 men ; the rebellion in
Canada, in 1837-8, led te a further augmentation of 8,000
men ; the rebellion in Wales to 5,000, to 1839; the war in
China and aria, the burning of the Caroline, &c., in 1840,
to 6,000 soldiers additional ; the dispute about the boundary
of the state of Blaine, in 1842, caused an increase of 4,000
@Klan; the {Repute respecting the Oregon territory led te an
expense of 1,700,0004. , and the dispute about the apanish
marriages and the fears of French invasion, in 1847, caused a
farther expenditure of 1,000,000!.; so that in the last ten years
the expenditure of the kingdom had been increased by 10 mil
lions; and what was very remarkable was, that, though the
11 several causes for those increases in the army had ceased, the
I hues themselves remained elm et in their hall strength. It
I was our foreizn and colonial policy that called for the main-
tenance of such extensive armaments, and not the necessities
of the people of England. Recent experience had shown
that the few regiments kept up in England would not
have been sufficient to keep the people in check if
the people had been unanimous in demanding the
changes which some had called for ; bat that
peace and order had been maintained by the ser-
vices of the people in a civil capacity. Another
source of expentliture was the mal-administration of the
public establishments, the dockyards especially. As an
instance, he might state that from 1833 to 1947, indepen
timely of the good vessels which were built and launched
(some of which were used, and some not used), there were
143 vessels bu it, of tannage varying from 150 tons to 2,600
tons, which were either entirely or comparatively failures,
and 44 of these vessels were never sent to sea in consequence
of mal-construction. It was therefore to reduce the public
expenditure of the nation to the lowest point consistent
with the proper maintenance of the dignity and honour of
the nation, that he had signed the requisition, and now bad
the pleasure to second the resolution.
Mr. E. BLUNDELL asked whether if five or ten thousand
soldiers were disbanded, there could be found employment
for them In the labour market?

Mr. CARBU TT said that at first it might happen that the
disbanded eoldien would not find work, but that that was
no reason why the unemployed should be ast to play at
soldiers ; and, he might add, that if the country had fair
play they would soon be able to find employment. jibs")
The resolution was unanimously adopted..

- -
Mr. T. PLINT proposed the licit neolution, which ren so
follows :
That In the opinion of thts meeting the prepeot scale of expenditure
on the =Mary and nasal defences of the nation in either
for the security of colonies, or the protection of the United
from foreign eareseices, this =Wag het eying that the eolooles

rightly pawned. to seltaapprthig, and that non-interferenes
the 'Mks of other nations. the removal of UI impediments to com-
mercial intainans and the substitution of friendly arbitration lot
the barbarous resort to the
of sword, are the beat guarantees for the
safetyvv (Jibe Dalian, and its exemption from the horrors and atrocities

Before adverting to the resolutica, he would give another
rower to the question which had been put • and he would
say, that if all the men who new composed the army were
disbanded, the mosey which was now expended in pro-
=thine with maintenance and the munitions of war
be applied in a much more beneficod manner, and
that these would be no difficulty in finding employment for
them eli. As a rate-payer be thought it was important flar
them to consider the question of expenditure, for he estimated
that one-reventh of what a man earned was expected in
taxes. Bat though he was an advocate for economy,
he would not object to that being (brie which
was reasonable to be done. H. would have the
dignity of the empire prorgly maintained. In the
year 1688 the estimated income of the country was
42 millions a-year, but the taxation was then only about two
millions, or one-twentieth; bat now, when the estimated
income of the United Kingdom was, perhaps, 330 or 360
millions a-year, the taxation of the country was about one-
seventh; audit would at once be seen that there was a vast
difference between one-seventh and one-twentieth, espe-
cially of so large a sum. Mr. Flint entered into an analysis
of the vinous* of the dockyards, ordnance, 8a , as compared
with the-seals of 1836, end said that there bad been an in-
crease of wages of seamen to the extent of 4i millions, in
their victualling of 3 millions, in the naval stores, timber, &a,
of 9 million% in the wages of the dockyards of 3 millions,
and in other departments, making a total of 35 millions in-
crease in 13 years above the scale of 1835. It must, how-
ever, be borne in mind that the 22 steamotipe of 1833 had
been increased in 1848 to 174. Mr. Phut next adverted to
oar colonial establishments, showing that their expenditure
was disproportlonatly large. He instanced the Governor of
Canada, whose salary was 7,000/. a year, whilst that of the
President of the United States was only 5,0001. a year. After
referring to the state of affairs in India, and to the present
system of international policy, he intimated his belief that
the tree trade system would become a failure if the system of
war was to be continued. He did not believe that free trade
would fail from any other cause.
W. B. HOLDS WORTH, Esq., briefly seconded the reso-
lution, end it was unanimously adopted.
B. BAINES, Beq., said he fully concurred in the obser-
vations which had bean made by the previous speakers. but
there was another view of the effect of this extravagant ex-
penditure which he wished to place before them, and that
was how far the system touched their own interests and
their owa feelings. The resolution which he had to move
dialoged :

That the extravagant and unneceenuy amount of the national
expenditure recreate the removal of many customs and excise duties
which impede the operation of agriculture and manufacture, and
diminish the funds for the employment of labour, thereby increasing
pauperism and crime, thus adding to the oppressiA emcee of unneces-
mart taxation, the more serious evil of a deinotalised, autfeting and
discontented population.
_ . _

It was beautifully observed by Sir James Grabens, in a
speech which he made in 1835, that public morality and
prosperity go together, and tha.. in proportion as the popula-
tion is depressed there is an increase of crime and pauperism.
The amount of taxation actually paid by the ps,ple had of
late years increased to an extraordinary extent. Taking
peri-rie of five years, so as to give no room for the imputation
that any particular year had been selected, it would appear
that in the five years, from 1831 to 1835 inclusive,
the annual taxation was 46,400,0001. per year, whilst the
taxation (not the expenditure) of the last five
years, from 1844 to 1848, amounted to 62,923,0001, being
an increase of 0,521.0001. a year in each et thus five years
beyond the amount that was paid in each of the five years of
the period he had previously referred to. It was impossible
that this greats r amount could be pail without the public at
large feeling the effects of it; for even if it were
wholly paid by the upper and middle classes, it would
to that extent diminish their means of employing the
working classes of the population. Ile hoped that the pe-
tition which they would send to the House of Commons
would effectually promote the object they had in view.
- - - ------- -

Aid. BOWER seconded the resolution, and expressed a
hope that the petition to be adopted would be very nume-
rously signed by persms of all claret.
Mr. FIRTH, an operative, addressed the meeting, not in
opposition to the resolution, but to exprem his dissent from
the opinions of Mr. Carbutr ond Mr I- it.. "he otce
disbanding a large numoer a soldiers upon the labour
market. He nontended that such an influx of able-bodied
labourers would atiii turther depress the rendition of the
poor; end he maintained that free trade would not benefit
the working etasees. He wouta tax the lend to
the payment of the interest on the national debt,
and he would apply to Mother Church the some
principle which it was proposed to apply to other
branches of the public expenditure. Mr. Pilot had wished
the working claises to go with the middle classes for financial
reform; he did not believe that the saying of the ten millions
yearly would benefit the working classes one lots ; but he
now called upon Mr. Flint to join the working classes in
demanding the charter. If the whip were in earneft, let
them come forward to enfranchise the working claws. With
a House of Commons constituted like the present it was not
to be wondered at that Mr. Cobden's motion should have
been negatived by so large a majority. Yet it would always
be so until the electoral body war extended.
The resolution paned unanimously.
Mr. Councillor BROOK, in proposing the adoption of a
petition founded upon the resolution, slid that he appeared
in his old character of a friend of retrenchment of expendi-
ture, whether local or general; and he was in favour of a
large retrenchment,—day, of the entire disbanding of the
army, and of a large reduction of the navy and tithe ord-
nanoe.—(Mr. Brook was proceeding with his observations
when our report was despatched. a few minutes before four
o'clock.)