The Express.
London, England, 1851-04-03 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—WEDNE.‘DAT, APUL 2.
Aft. r the report given in ye.terday's Express was
desoa:ched,
l'ne SPEAKER announced that he had received a letter
from Mr. Coppoek, parliamentary agent, stating that the
petit In against the recent return for the Falkirk burghs
woual not be proceeded with.
EXTENSION OF TIIE COUNTY FRANCIIISE.
Mr 1.. El:sift, in moving the second nailing of his bat
feet!,- application of the IW. franchise to counties, said be
wa. pkovil under somewhat peculiar circumstance+, and
that ii. had to contend with mine unestreted difficulties.
Ile deeply regretted that when lie obtained a majority for
the nr.t reading of the bill the names of her
Majesty's
min,t. r. did not appear in that majority, for he was con-
fidcat rat nothing would more base strengthened the go-
fem. ct..ut or tended to have made it piptilar in the country
than for it to have shown nit a mec. disposition to extend
the I..inehise, but to give a substenti 1 and solid boon to the
come re by means of this most simple, eticetual, &adjust meas.
sun.. (iiheers.) Ile had Teen blamed for having pressed the
how to • division; but lie begged to assure them that he
oar., oltended that his motion should be a sham or a fled.
in i . pan. (Cheers.) Ile always intended it to be a
mil.. s ...., he felt the stoat important interests were at stake ;
and I:. a the great eau,* of free trade was in danger, on ac-
count of the great diminution which bad taken place in the
cost..-y constituencies. (Cheers.) Ile ncrer had had the
kers in ntiou of cmharrausing the diseeraiient in any way
•—mah..; could tie further from his wish., titan to see the
bon. .n. [thee fur Hoek% occupying these at which th • noble
bed till. lon the 11l i , liderial bench Had lie wished that
a au.bieti, vi..hut, rapt complete revolution should be effected
in oit institutions, and protection the means by which
it • aoold lie brought about, then, perhaps, he
might have desired to see the hon. member for
Ducks in office. (Hear.) They who advocated the cause
of i., gum at nil, however, in a much better position in con-
se.ii,...ive of that division than they did before, for they
had now an admission of the neeemity 6,r • substantial ex-
tension of the sulteige, not only fron, :s m ijority of two to
one of the mi min es of the house, bot aiso toms two of the
met o tit.its sit mid distinguished stet, sutra of the day. Ons
wa. the noble lord himself, who volcil against the treasure,
but who admitted at the same timo that no reasonable per-
arm could bring any charge ening the class on whom it
was pis,,,st 4 to confer the franchise, and that they would
rob Oily use th.• privilege with intelligence and integrity.
Ch.. es.) The other was the right Imo. harm; t the member
!
ocltiptio,ur hop, after having heard the a lode of the discussion,
*Naomi a Irom voting. (Cheers). iii' (Mr. LoMir King) might
re...ably believe the wade lord to he is advance of his
cabinet ; for, having prepared a bill, his lordship found hi.
calm:rig a i. unanimou•ly of siltation that it was nut advis-
alai. 10 introduce such a bill this session. Ile lagged the
bow .• to mark th.• *orbs of the noble Linn, who confessed
" kr a,. :.nitight tio eointiele iii that euritlusion oiler hav-
ing oriemally hel I a different opinion." (Hear, bear.)
The good genius of their country seemed to be hovering
over tone two eminent stateout n. They unit.ll brought
Arta the Ito twin hill, whit It, humanly speaking, had
Owned $ .I'• ..untry. (Ifs ar.) It as enietl also a good omen
be biv • -soh an admission made by the only two surviving
meat.. is rot that eal,inet, that th. ir work load been by them
ii maglied in the balatiee and found wanting." (Cheers.)
WM a they hail these admission', it was clearly their duty
la e..., CI r what should be done, and it peculiarly beuune
the oat,
...fthu noble loril 10 Mforiu them at once the nit-
tan. ..t LAI' bill algid, 1..• hag tir ••..I to introduce at the
mad -1 twilvi• mouths. It eertainly *nubl be an anomalous
Mat. of 'binds fur the noble lord to admit he hail formed a
gilms, and to forbid its lasing discussed fir a whole year.
lie.,-, bear.) Ile was thankful, however, vein for bitch
a Ilia.iisl avowal ; and that it a., only postpinied becosise
sr the great linaneial iliffieulti. . T. suiting Ineu a surplus in
the e s •nao, and what Nholl'al 111. the ....involuting di ti-
rico. . an the Midget ; Mid also leenua of two letters, One
fem.. •. I lanit.tiatt-aatt , awl the other I i•mniev-,..tivet.
L... ~ r.} }:very ry Ids e.l member wolitilseariell ill the right
. as oilier for Repo:. when lir • tot with utithoulited truth
that it wa. itilimoiltie for him to 1.111/a/ what was the na-
ture sit the plan whit!. the noble lord a.•. likely to bring
fora .-il. tiqually ins...able mug it Is. for the liberal
antotei Ph all all other putty in the holl.e, to guess what
wee .1 im the rir...s of thy Noble Lint's hill; whellwr it
wan.: ,Naahl,• tho nuts r of elector-, tor is.., add one-half
we re. • qoarter 1110, to the prow' • onWittil Mae.. MOW,
bear , de Warned the 110146, Lord tout to espect that the
great tore party wnil.l ever 410 hint )1 amen service
arrbil,l a. they hot sine,. it • ; and he tin r. fore reenms
swats,' him to host in the liberal party, as he hail done
who -is He carried the first Reform Itill. (Ilene, le- r.) Ile
quit It tiestol that when the thin eante, the 110'ile lord
wasiol produce such a •.•heie a. hr had declared nee-seary,
and ... lie (Mr. I. King) trusted nimbi be witi•litiAury.
Ile otssl that he would append to it, as he
did to the lira Reform Bill, another ah. dole A, and
di.tr .... :is • that u retell. sl rho,. of small latroni;;lis, the mu-
latto .v 1 .of whish loom their in-141.01(.11re api.varett to
be ila aialltle cif the same alllolllll. ..r public airier which
elms wormed larger eh rtotal Inalies. (Hear.) 'llteue
wisaie,..l, rontemplstole, and niost mischievous Wrote:lw,
whi. a .. dy just i /raped lli•leallChlwallelit at the 1011,4 int of
the 1t..4.,,eua 11,11, ontscht at .0.. to Ito remelted hum the
electoral system as it blot and a stain. (('hilars.) 'thee
liar. ..,.ro pocket suantien, which were oi,•miti by a few
intli s Oasis, and there went snarl tumuli. %bleb.
owe .! .11uo to he is modified. (Hear, hive.) if the noble
101/1 ..-,old lie the reformer of the Ibionn Itiil. lie WIM1401:-
CUlts s position in the eye. of the public Y. 4.ll.mi:dile as
that ......1 lie • njoyeil 20 year. atm. (Cheers.) Or One
thin t •• was purr. namely, that when the time came for the
mob: Lod to propose his plan, he would nit he able to carry
it u .... he causer on Ili.. side the great body of the people
of 1...g:a.t.1; for it he did not Vial, his bill would lie
lig .a a tont elsewhere. It was time for thin, tool bir all
who . hill to Births. r their ohject ~ to etuleavour to Mallet'
the 1..1.1. tool, if passible, to put himself at the brad of the
two. ...ut. ct beers) It was his (Mr. lall'fte King's)
wnti to strengthen the present goveniment, and he
felt •ii it that isnal.l only be done by the mold, lord',
In ia ..... forward .. substantial measure of reform. (Mar.
lira ' Thi• hon. member ha. in,; r. ail statement. showing
that while the constituetay ig the berionth. had Memo.: el that
of ill, ....untie, had ilim.nislail, v guil.al by toying thot lie
bus. .• that there isould he iii delay in iutrodiu ing
anew on;noveinent t for a i om.e.imi that would to-day i.e
we seed by the people with gratitude might to-morrow be
est.'s dby them as a right. (('heers) II they looked into
hist. y, a kat would they find Ito( ever Iwo n the restdt Of
post ...neusent ? its paltry and insignitivant a MenWlre as
the ol osanillisement of East Itetfor.l nomad have staved off
reloc..l for a long time; whereas the retention of
that town on the list of borough:. had obliged
the wage 10111, in
.11.11.1, to wilinit that a 1111101
lard. rOr a‘tire had Is sumac net eweiry. (Mar.) If they
look-. 1 b irk, they you'd MA that the tory party had ever
par -w .1 au obstruetite course, and they bad ever reaped
the lead of that isoliey. Cherie. I. hail been (Aloe. sal by
('rums. II and the Counion.w. illth $ (i.v.rge IV. by William
IV. awl reform; Victoria and free trade. In France,
Louis X VI. hail lean follow. il by Napoleon awl the ling
rovioutom; land. XVIII. by Louis Philippe: lanais
l'hilipoe by another Napoleon and a OCCVIIII resolution.
(Ch. sir.) It,. hopeil that the noble lord would nilteet on the
le•son• t.ttauht by these es rots, mid earre out in tail and 1642
the principles he had e .cued in Ite:.11 and lii l!. ((beers.)
What ttoo!il he the ..tr...1 upon tile ~Basle of those persona
to who,. It W.I. intended to extend tins franchise. by this
men-ore, whose qualitieat. for the per item. was admitted
by the noble lord. by the nsigeopoliten member., and the
rep resentative. of the great hives of manufacturing indus-
try s %hat, he would ask, would he tlti•ir 6 cling if they
were denial the ',civil. ge which was enjoy,al under similar
eir. unestaneea by their allow-eititens ? (('horn.) I 1 the
grot hereditary obstructive party, aided by hereditary
prejudice., should siirleort a pOWelleill olio:in:by ill refusing
to th. a persona their right.. a eery scrims. popular agitie
lion might he the result. (Cheers.) The hon. gentkoaan
then united the wood reading.
Mr. I'. 1101 V Alt') eapportial the hill on the irrouttd that
It amid eons ey the fninehise to a large and important
de., namely, the probooional men. who at present did nut
procure that privileoe till late in life, when they had acs
quirt' an inilemoulenee from cum.,. in their %orients
avocation.. (Hear. hear.)
Mr. FOX MA l' 1.1: sail he hail been in gra• it hopes that
his hon. friend.' who had moved the PelWild reading.
woui.l base been content with the Opinion which
hail alreoly been oh-Oared by the ligue.--(ehetre)
—and that la would not have pressed further
during the present seseion the progress of urn...A.llre which
he (Mr. V. Mauls.) perfectly admired had been under-
taken by the hon. gentleman 11.0 i Jide, oat' without any
party siva. whatever. (Hoar, hear.) Ile entirely
concurred in the Opinioll expr, sail by his noble friend,
that It,, claw whets it aas potion...Nl to enfranchise
was quite worthy .$1 it ; and it Will certainly nut from any no-
Wort 'sin,. on their part that he oopowdat present the further
swoon... of this biil. (near.) Ile quite agreed with lii. noble
friend that the time had conic when the extension of the
franchise might most ',retail! he eomillered. 11... ii.) Ili,
noble iri. int un the form rd. hate upon this measure hail
most .1, smithy given the house and the country to under-
stand, that nut only in his opinion had the period arrived
for a I 11.01,,e. but that, had not other MellMih'l intervened,
to dr.. the discussion too rite in the present session of par-
liftmen. to Wire ally prospect of ps•Onst any ineiPture founded
upon the. subject. he would himself have introdueed an im-
portant in.-runs of n•formoulas large a one as was consistent
with the principles of the Iteform Bill. (('Meer.) But
what had happened? Circumstances hail occurred which
bad brooght nutter antler discussion in that house which
he leant weialel be brought to no very speedy termination.
(Hear. hear.) They were ineasoree. give him leave to say, ,
in whisk the people of this country were, at the' present mo-
ment, very deeply interested—nut lees ao, in fact, than they
weer ell% upon the question of parliamentary reform.
(Hear.) Ile referred to the immures upon the subject of
Vie .... lesiastieal titles, to those connected with fi •
"mini il reform, and to a question involving that of I
parlienalitary r, form, ou which the house stood plidgeil— I
he intent the measure for the introduction of members V
of the Jewish persuaiion into that house. (Cheers.) Ilia
noble friend had sated to the house the course he meant to
pursue. and no man was more entitled to confidence than
the noble lord. (Cheers.) No man hail ever shruak km
from federating his pledges in that house; and be had
announced that he would bring forward—not this semblat,
for frames". he had just stated. shut that he would bring lam
ward • immure of reform. lie (Mr. Fon Mottle) thought
that when the time should have come that the franchisee
should he extended, it must be done by a general
measure. (Item) it must be done at once, and at
the same time—it must be no bit-by-bit reform, but such a
measure as would secure the approbation and support of all
parties. (Cheers.) Ile would earnestly entreat his hon.
Mend not to mess his motion. (Cheers) Ile agreed with
the lion. inember so far as to admit that the class he pro-
posed to estreachise was worthy of the privilege. At a

time when all other countries toss to demand that,
which their rulers had refused than. the pew*
of this country. in perfect confide's°, that the onward
reform was making a silent but sure advance, rossalmod
uiet, and the friends of ender, as they had always bros.
?Cheers.) But he hoped, therefore, the hon. gentleman
Mr. Locke King) would not press the second reading of
his bill. (Hear, hear.)
Sir B. HALL said he should certainly have urged his
bon. friend to take the sense of the house, but for the speech
just delivered. Ilad the noble lord at the head of the go-
rrrnment spoken out as strongly as the right hon. gentle-
-111311 had done, it might not have been necessary to press
the question to a division; hut, after the pledge given on
the part of the government to bring forward a comprehen-
sive measure, he thought the principle of the bill was ad-
mitted, in favour of which then• had already been one divi-
sion. On that ground, he was willing to leave the matter
in the hands of government.
Sir 11. L. E V.INS concurred in the course recommended
by the last speaker, but said that he should vote for the bill
iu the event of a division. Should the bill now he pressed
to a division he feared the advantage they had gained at a
former stage would he lost.
Mr. Bit [GILT said bethought they were wandering from
the matter under discussion. They were not met to divas,
whether they should divide or not, but whether they should
go on with the bill, and nit simply whether it was de-
sirable to bring forward an important question when
hootturahle gentlemen opposite were in the house. Ile
had no expectation at all that a measure of that
kind could be smuggled through the house, nor did he
think it desirable that it should be. It would be far better
to turn their attention to the measure itself, than to what
had token place on the last discussion, or what would be
the result of a division that day. Ile had listened with
ronsiderable gratification to the speech of the right hon.
Secretary at War. Ile was frank in his declaration of
something to be done; and from the tune of his remarks, it
might be supposed that it was to he something considerable.
But the noble lord at the head of the government bad not
ever hitherto indulged the house with anything so dis-
tinct. As the noble lord had not signified his ap-
provul in the slightest degree of the extension of
the 101. franchise to counties, the lion. member for
East Surrey was justified in bringing this specific
ploposition before the house, to have it fairly discussed.
For if, during the recess, the noble lord considered the sub-
ject of parliamentary reform, and this particular question,
he would he much aasiated in the couclusiun to which he
might tame by a full and fair discussion in the meantime
un the principle of this hill. Ile would, therefore, urge
that the y should go to the consideration of the bill itaelf,
to determine whether it should pass, or whether its princi-
ple was a good one, and limper to he introduced into
a general measure. It was agreed that they were
to take another step in advacce from the platform of
the Reberm Bill ; for it was only. a minority in that house
who opposed all progress. The right hon. gentleman (Mr.
P. Nlaule) objected to this bill because it was only a part of
the whole eines:ion. There was sem force in that objec-
tion; hut when the hon. member for Nlontnew brought for-
ward his motion, which embraced the whole question,
which proposed not only to give a large extension of the
franchise, but to accompany it with certain arrangements
which seemed absolutely necessary for giving proper cilia-
vary to a new reform 1411, the government complained
that the proposition was so enormous that it was impossible
for the house to adopt it, or even to discuss it on the mo-
tion of an indem nelent ins oilier. Therefore, his hun.l
friend (Mr. L. Kiug) had brought this forward as one
branch of the great subject; and he hoped the discussion
would have some effect in clarifying the mind
of the noble lord when lie came to consider it.,
as a whale. Let the house look at the question in this
light: it was not in any degree a question of principle
as iegareled the suffrage ; fur all thot the bill proposed had
been:adopted with regard to half the electors in England
and Wake, and to the whole of those in Ireland. It was
mealy a question of limits, not of the suffrage itself—a
proposal to extend the suffrage already permitted in bo-
roughs to those living beyond their limits in the counties.
If the noble bell would 'rankly say what kind of propoei-
Bun he iutereled to suhmit to the house—whether large and
generous, or small 30111 INA 'ling —and give some outline of
the peinciplis upon which it would be founded, he had no
obiretion to the hill being withdrawn, or wets negatived,
an th,. rapers, understanding that the question would be con-
sidered in a generous spirit. rht• noble lonl was not so had a
teeth ion as soot to know that all measures carried by
novetownk nt. were conics' because they. were obliged to do
it. If independent number; put thew opinions in the
background, the result would be that nothing would be
dear, and hon. memben might us wsll go home, and allow
ministers to carry on, not only the government, but the
executive of the country. lie would rather see a bold and
compn h..itsise nitaistore of moan brought forward by the
ntolol.• Weil than by any one I.IW ; but lie had not +efficiently
explained his civics. It was desirable that lie should do su,
we then it might not lw nee.ssury is go to a division.
Col •I SI ItTuout, expressed ou hope that the hon.
member for East Sump would divide. Ile would not sup-
port th • hon. member, nor would he support the govern-
ment. Netiiing delighted him more than to ssr the whole
of tkat party at loggerheads; for 011 t of apparrut Lail good
Would I-01110. (Lalla.liCr.) 'idle lion. and gallant member
then lAIIIIOII 'II into a string of invectives:sit Mist the " glass
pollee," and concluded by saying he considered the decla-
ration 0: the noble limit men: " elaietrop," and he should
at a• retire from the house. (Oreat laughter was eveitell
by the manner in which the: hon. and gallant member then
walked out of the I ce.)
Mr. I 'ME was anxious that the government should act
consistently. Ilad they timely the state mood last year
which had now h i n Matte from the treasury Inoue'', some-
thing might have been done; lout he was not too
really to accept ministerial promises. (Ilear, hear.)
The tiniest. proposed by the honourable baronet (sir
It. Mall) would shut the door to all discussion.
If the loonies contemplated by this bill were entitled to the
fronehise, it was unjust to refuse it; and every one who
voted against it voted in favour of injustice. ('! Hear, hear,"
and No, no.") The rigid lion. Secretary at War &pre-.
rated envision. Who had caused division but the govern-
ment, by standing still when the r ry demanded pro-
gress? (hear, hear.) On the lost thee...eon on this
gut lion gentlemen opposite left the house, and the division
Was Is twcen the n•foriners. That was caused by the noble
lord topiao•neg the hill, and objecting to tarry out his own
principle. 'I% hat had taken plan' to induce him to believe
that ministers were more snwere than mu the (.ruler oeco-
sbon ? He should divide in favour of the measure, cure-
less of what the numbers might he. (Hear, hear.)
After u few worter from Sir B. HALL and Mr. 11F.VDT.AY;
Mr. MCI: sold he had voted for the introdutotiton of the
bill, and be thought much had loot en gained by the discus-
awl the. vote thereon. Ile was Wit prepaft 11 to go all
the length. of the hon. member for Montrose; but he
them.ulit this a reasonable and fair proposition. If lie voted
against the seemed reading, he .141 nut wi4t to be inisunder-
mod. (Ili ar, and "Oh, oh! ") He did not wish to em-
hams. the government for no end: nor did he wish to
court debut, which was inevitable if they divided 110 W.
lt.el he heard the declaration of the mottle lord on the for-
mer debate, he should nut have voted fur the introduction
Mlle. 1411.
Mr. 'l'. BUNCOMBE said lie hail frequently moved reso-
lutions fur carrying out the Inform Bill, which had ales ass
been opposed by the govenement. On this occasion he
doubted us to the extent of thew intended reform. 'The
Secretary-at-War had not told them whether it was the
magnitude or the inefficiency of this measure which they
tolojected to. Ile said the class proposed to he enfronehiseil
WWI u very respect:Ode class, and the way he showed his
respect aas by voting against the bill. lie noble lord had
been understood, on the former occasion, to deny that the
chess was entitled to the franchise. Ile sold the colduet haul
had sarioms thecu.siona on the question, but it had occurred
to them that the Reform Bill was not twenty years old.
(Ltughte r.) Next year it would hove attained that age,
and they should then be prepared to deal with it. But
what security had they, after the late niinisterial crisis,
that the noble lord would occupy his present scat?
(Hear, hear ) Let the noble lord say that this bill
was inethei rit. and did not go tar enough—that
he would nest session propow a much more on typing mea-
sure; awl then he might induce the lion. member for East
Surrey to withdraw his bill. (Hear, hear.) It was long
since the noble lord had done anything in the way of re-
form; let him support this bill, by way of keeping his band
in. (•• Hear," Ulla laughter.)
Mr. CLAY, while not wishing to embarrass the govern-
merit, should vote fur the *tweed reading if a division was

pry
Mr. Alderman SIDNEY referred to his vote on the
former occasion, and the reason why it was given.
Ile (Alderman Sidney) approached the second reading of
this bill with a conviction that it was not what many hon.
minb..rs bvlieved it to he—a democratic or (Lim/crow'
measure. (.. Hear, hear." and -divide. divide.") Ile did
not trouble the I.lolldo very often, and if prevented from de-
liveriiir his opinion on the present occasion, be would az ne
the adjournment of the debate. (Oh, oh.) He hail never
been adverse to the extension of the franchise. l'reviuus to
ISA I. the period of the Reform Dill, there were fears enter-
tain, il that that bill would tend to revolutionise the country,
but he found that instead of making the people more de
inucrutie, its tendency was to make them inure conserva-
tive. (Hear, hear.) Ile, therefore, said to hon. members
on his side of the house who were inclined to oppose the
present measure, that their C. 11,1 on the supposition of de-
mocracy were xr.oindless—(hmr. hear)—and therefore he
would of thou to uphold the proposition, as such
was his own determination. (Hear, hear.)
Colonel THOMPSON felt bound to confess that he
would as soon see London six weeks in the possession of a
foreign army as see lion. members opposite six weeks in
Mike. The mischief, in one rase, might be more eon-
ceutrated, but certainly would not be inferior in amount ;
and he, therefore, should record his vote against the meas
safe. it littliala to a division. (Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Mr. S. CRAWFORD,
Col. ROM lI.LY said that since the passing of the Re-
form Dill the advancement of morality and the extension of
information were an unmistakeable amongst the classes in
general as to establish &claim on their behalf to more extended
privileges. (Hear.) Holding that opinion he felt bound to
vote on all uzealitlllS in favour of the exteusion of the fran-
chise, as he did in the last year. however, since then a
upequence of the present measure was one very disagree-
able to many bon. members. A right hon. baronet who
sat on the opposite side of the house (Si J. Graham), the
leader of a own.•.—. no, no," from the protec-
'-. and •

morons party—, , ,
tionist beathes)—well, if not numerous, able, mid influ-
ential, had signified his intention of legislating liberally on
the questlan, in the event of him being commissioned to take
Ake. (Hear, bear.) No person could doubt the sincerity
of his hon. friend (Mr. L. King), but for many considera-
tions be Rosatilly) pressed upon him the policy of not
pnweolinz with his present mem.ure. In any case hie
(Cul. Roanlly's) mine was clear. As an advocate of the
extension of the franchise he was prepared to go beyond the
I object of the present partial measure ; but as he thought