The Express.
London, England, 1848-08-26 00:00:00

poor—works, too, which, be contended, would yield a return
sufficient to pay the expense of the paupers' support. Surely
that would be a wiser course to sdopt than supporting the
Bas at present, Idleness or unproductive employ-
ment. But the present plan, besides being unproductive,
was absolutely demoralising. It required men to walk eight
or ten miles from their pleas of abode to a central depot,
there to receive their food , to break stones, which they re-
garded as a penal lehour, and to walk home again. Why
not employ them in the occupation of spade labour, that
which was the most congenial to Irishmen, and which would
be attended with no shame to him, and with benefit to the
ratepayer, and the country at large ?
Sir W, SOMERVILLE said the hon. gentleman had on
fairly blamed the commissioners for not doing that which
the law did not empower them to do. They were absolutely
prohibited from administering relief in the way the hon. gen-
tleman proposed ; and this was net the opportunity to dis-
tress the propriety of the law. He did not think that the ex-
tensive employment of pauper labour in the way proposed
would be found to ha productive labour at all. But, be this
as it might, the correui senors could not, without more ie-
lm:mime powers, carry out such a system. The particulae
remedy proposed by the hon. gentleman would require very
extensive legislation; and he hoped the house would nut
consent to entertain the motion now submitted.
After a few words in explanation from Mr. SCHOPE,
Lord G. SENTENCE referred to a report of he Board of
Werke in Ireland, in proof of the difficulty and expense of
reclaiming waste lands so as to render them va:uable. lie
was fr vs irable to the outlay of money for the improvement
ref land already in cultivation and for the reclamation of
what was called strong land. In toms way, the report
stated, a million and a half of money had been expended,
which was expected to yield an average return of 8 per cent.,
being 'qui,' dent to a return re 120,0001., fur an annual out-
lay of atiout 90,0001. The eommis.ioners also stated t' at
they anticipated no difficulty in the repayment, by half-
yearly instalments, of the sums advanced for drainage.
Mr. HUME concurred in the principle involved ir the
resolutions that had been moved.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he did not think it would be safe
to adopt the proposition made by the hon. member fur
Stroud ,(Mr. P. Serape), inasmuch as it would lead to an
expensive and probably most injurious mode of proceed-
ing. (Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Mr. P. SenOPe in explanation,
Me. 111110 M: said that it was an extreme ilittisulty to
come to any conclusion on the present mate of Ireland
whole social state of that country was so disorgenised
that it was impossible to suggest asystem by which pauperism
might be relieved without the waste of public money and the
great demarallation of those emoogst whom the money wee
uistributed. He lox ked, therefore, with the greatest possible
allowance, both to the propositions of the government and
those urged by the hon. member for Stroud, even though
those of the latter were not in strict accordance with
the right principles of political economy. But as
this was, perhaps, the last opportunity which
would he afforded during the present session of say-
ing anything on the subject of Ireland, he (Mr. Bright)
was unwilling to permit that opportunity to pass without
making a few observations on the subject, particularly as the
no` le lod at the head of tho government intended, it was
said, to visit that country to collect that information which
he did not now possess on that painful and afflicting
matter. Poring the last two mum the disturbances
had taken place in some parts of England, and
d.saffection, he hoped not very wide-spread, bad manifested
itself. Take, tor instance, the county at Liecaster, and what
did they find ? Why that the result of the state and condi-
-1 •
Lon of Ireland was a large importation of the Irish pope's-
tion. Liverpool, Manchester, Blackburn, Bolton, and all the
ncighbouting towns contained an Irish population so vast that
in each the re was an Irish varier. Ut these Irish, though
there were many who were honest, induetrimsa and peaceable
yet the majority brought with them all the rims which have
so long existed in Ireland, and produced au unfavourable
effect en the native population of those districts—a popula-
tion he ventured to describe as the moat industrious and
meritorious in the country. He found that both in York.
shire and Lancashire crimes of vielenc prevailed to a meet
deplorable extent, and that these crimes were committed
not by the natives of these counties but by those who had
come from Ireland, because there they could not find or
procure the means of existence. There was also another point
of view which ought not to he lost eight of, and that was the
fact that wb ee eeer an Irishman sat ho foot, no matter in
what quarter of the world, he took his stand as the bitter
and implacable enemy en this country. (Hear, hear.) This
was the result of the widespread disaffection which existed
in Ireland. At this moment there were hundreds of thou-
sands of Irishmen in the United: States of America
—that was to say, of Irishmen by birth, or persona imam-
cliately descended from Irish parents ; and by the sysem of
government in America these had become f cos lased of •
large extent of influence in public attaire—in some of the
states affecting the election of members of the American
legislature, and heroine a sway in the choice of the first
officer of the government ; and hence he submitted that if
there should come is time when questions of a critical nature
should be discussed between this country and the United
Sates, certain Irishmen might throw the weight of their in-
fluence into the scale against the peace of this country, and
that owing to the misdoing, of the government here, or of
the people of Ireland to get rid of pauperism end
of crime, it might be found that thoumuds of Irish-'
men now in America might there exercise greater influence
against the empire than they could have brought to bear of
living wi bin its limns. Let these points be considered, and
the conclusion must be arrived at that either the govern-
ment or the Irish people were greatly in fault. For himself,
lie was ready to admit that both were in fault. lie believed
that not only the present hut every other government had
been negligent of the true iaterests of Ireland. It was a com-
mon thing to heat, especially from the treasury bench, that
they presentee' difficulties which were almost insurmount-
able. The right hon. baronet the member for Tamworth,
on,oneoccosion, on resigning office, had declared that Ireland
was his difficulty. Ills (Mr. Bright's, opini n was, that the
difficulty of remedying the condition of Ireland was by no
means equal to the difficulty which would have to be en-
countered if remedies were not devised. (Hear, hear.)
He believed that the real difficulty as to the set-
tlement of the Irish question arose pertly from the
mode in which the administration was formed. They were
almost an arist mratic government. The aristocracy was
supreme on the treasury bench; there were seven members
of the cabinet hall of whom were members of the House of
Lords, and the remainder were either lords by courtesy or
were on the threshold of the peerage by birth. No blame to
them, for perhaps 14 better men could not be found to
occupy their places ; but he was prepared to maintain that in
the present condition of Ireland it was impossible that these
14 gentlemen, occupying seats in the cabinet, could meet
with unbiassed minds to discuss the questions of Ireland.
Ireland required two remedies—one political, the other
social, As to the political remedy, there existed in Ireland a
universal total unbelief in the honesty and integrity of the
government of this country. What would remove this feel-
ing but a complete demonstration by:the government to them
that they were determined that bygones should be bygones,
and that henceforth equelity of government should be the
great principle to be adopted. (Hear.) Ireland had been a
country of jars and turmoils for a period of time longer then
the memory of any man now living extended. Those jars
and turmoils had arisen from religious dissensions. They had
governed Ireland in • manner totally unknown to England
or Scotland ; and he contended that if Ireland was continued
to be governed as now—if, as now, the religious establish-
ment was to be kept up, prelacy ought to be established in
Scotland and Roman catholicism in Er gland. (Hear, hear.)
But, if neither of these was attempted, it would not be a
sham but a real rebellion that would be provoked and
,rought about. They must establish perfect equality in Ire-
land between the Roman catholic and the protestant, and in
justice the establisher:met of that equality ought not to be
longer deferred. It was said that the government
meant to bring forward (if the people of England could
be caught napping) • proposition fur the endowment and
payment of the Roman catholic priests. From that propo-
sition he dissented, and he thought it would be an easier
remedy, and more consistent with the true interests of reli-
gion, to withdraw the present church establishment from
Ireland—(hear, hear)—and give a perfect equality in those
funds which were not necessary for the wants of the pro-
testant population, and to separate all connexion between
the clutch and state, and appropriate the funds for some
grand and general purpose, such as education. (Hear,
hear.) With regard to the present representative system
of Ireland, he could, after having spent 73 days in a most
wearisome investigation of an election proceeding in Ireland,
declare that the system of representation in that country was
a delusion and fraud. It would be far better that Ireland
should have no representatives than that she should be de-
luded with the idea that her representatives neglected their
interests. The numbsr of taxes the payment of which
formed the qualification to vote—the system of registration
only once in eight years, instead of annually as in this
country—were contrivances each as only the greatest foe to
liberty could have invented. No system could be concocted
that would he more calculated to irritate • people whose
liberties it proiessed to concern. (Hear.) Ile came now
to the social condition of Ireland, which though political
remedies might be as oil on the troubled waters, ought not
to he lost sight of. No doubt could be entertained that the
social evils of Ireland arose mildly from the mode in which
the land was now held, and owned, and cultivated, or rather
he should say not cultivated. There were in Ireland vast
tracts of land which, if left in the hands of the present pm
sneers to the end of the world, would never maintain the
population wnich they ought to support. The true solution
of this question was to get toese lands out of the hands of the
man who was the nominal possessor, but who performed
none of the duties of a lana-owner, but who held under
mortgage deeds, while the people around were starv-
ing in a district where God and nature had provided
them means of existence. (Hear, hear.) Passing from this
he came again to the aristocratic part of the question, which
involved the law of entail and the law of primogeniture. In
Scotland the law of entail had this year been modified, and
in this country itsevils had to some extent been modified by
the extraordinary -industry of the people, and by the capital
accidentally introduced into large manufacturing under.
Likings. But in Ireland there was upheld and maintained a
eerie of laws by which it was impossible that the land and
the people could be brought together, and industry have its
fair held for operation, instead of coming to this house
annually to ask alms from the people of England. These
lows of entail and primogeniture had proved ruinous every-
where, but most so in Ireland. In addition to their aboli-
tion, he would suggest to the government the withdrawal
for some years of all the duties on the transfer of property in
Ireland, and :the establishment of a special court
to adjudicate on all matters of title, and to prepare
conveyances in as short a form almost as • certificate of the
transfer of railway stock. This would induce English capital
to flow into Ireland, and enable the people themselves to
work out the exlvation of their country. What wee the
obstacle in the way of these changes? Parliament had talked
of the evils affecting Ireland session atter session, until men
who hadheard of them in their boyhood had become grey-
headed, mot still Ireland remained a diegcace to the