The Express.
London, England, 1848-02-18 00:00:00

SHIPPING.

MAILS ARILTVHD.—DubIin.. 3 ; Waterford, 2 ; Donaghadee,
1; Guernsey and Jermy, 1 ; French, 1 ; Flanders, 1.
LONDON, Feb. 18.—Wind this day at noon, N.N.E.,
light breeze, and fine clear weather.
Dean, Feb. 17.—The Haim, from Shields to Alexandria,
arrived in the Downs yesterday, and proceeded. It is re-
ported that she had been on shore on the Long Sound, and
assisted off.
Mounties, Feb. 15.—The Waterlily, of 'Exeter, from
Newport to London, in swinging, got on her Inchon, and
stove a hole in her bottom, and makes a deal of water, but
has been got upon the hard to repair.
Ausznovar, Feb. 15.—A piece of a large vessel's stern
came on shore here to-day.
LTTIRJPOOL, Feb. 17.—Several balks of timber were
picked up today at Hilbrie Sand. The wreck of a vessel
was seen to-day off the Ormes Head, being towed to the
westward by a steamer.
HULL, Feb. 17.—The Mary Ridgway, from Shields to
Constantinople, has been assisted into this port, leaky.
LtvanrooL, Feb. 17,—N.N.E.—Arrived Passenger,
Penang • Ipswich, Monte Video. Sailed, 19th Dee.: Rap.
naltannoek, New Orleans ' • Enterprise New York. Sailed,
17th : Meg of Meldon, Crisis, Duke of Wellirgton, and
Berhampore, Calcutta. Arrived : Bombay, and Ann Best,
Coquimbo ; Celt, Iquique ; Phrenix, Antigua ; Hiudoo, and
Margaret. Jamaica : Parker, Demerara ; D'Auverene, Hon-
duras ; Caledonia, Philadelphia ; Atata, and John Cad-
midi, Charleston : Marmion, Ina, John Ravenal, Wood-
aide, and Sultana, New York ; Lucy, Boston.
RAMBOATE, Feb. 17.—N.N.E., fresh.—Sailed : RODis,
New Orleans.
DOVER, Feb. 17.—N .N E., fresh.—Arrived: Apenrade
packet, Pernambuco, for Hamburg.
PORTSMOUTH, Feb. 17.—N. to N.N.E.. Sailed : Ameri-
can Eagle, New York ; Mary Sparks, Victoria, Macao and
Canton.
SOUTHAMPTON, Feb. 17.—Sailed: Severn (steamer),
Barbedoes; Jupiter (steamer), Gibraltar.
PLYMOUTH, Feb. 17.—N.—Arrived, 16th: Elphinstone,
London for Sydney, N.6.W. Sailed, 15th: Susanna,
Alexandria. 17th : Jacques, Martinique ; Ouineaman, Cape
Coast Castle ; Sophie, St. Helena ; Clementine, Havanna.
Jaassr, Feb. 16.—Sailed Broad Axe, Rio Janeiro.
MILFORD, Feb. 16.—N.N.E.—Sailed: Mary Ann, Trim-
dad.
Wurrettavex, Feb. 16.—Sailed: Alexander Robinson,
Monte Video.
Orr Duzscisn, Feb. 17.—Arrived : Lord Petre, Mauri-
tius.
OFF PORTLAND, Feb. 16.—Arrived: Francis the First,
New York., for Hamburg.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—TEUTRSDAT, FEB. 17.
The Loan CHANCELLoIit took his scat at five o'clock.
PUBLIC BUM:tile-S.
SECOND READlNG.—Diplornatic Relations Court of home Sill.
NOTICE OF MOTION.—The Earl of EOLISTON in committee on
the Diplomatic Retatloos with Rome Billto-morrow, to mare an ad-
dition to a clause, " Not bring in holy orders in the church of Rome.
nor a Jesuit or member of my other religions order. community.
or society of the church of Rome, bound by monastic or rellipous vows."
ADMISSION OF JEWS TO PARLIAMENT.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH, in presenting several
petitions praying fur the removal of Jewish disabilities, said
that he did not concur in their prayer, and wished to
state that the prayer of each was in precisely the same words.
He might also add, that the petitions had been left at his
house by a person who said en his card that be came from
the London Election Committee, at which he was not at all
surprised, as he always considered the measure as a whig
civic job. He had heard of many abuses of public pried
leges, but he knew of none more flagrant than this abuse of
the right of petition.
DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS COURT OF ROME
BILL.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he had
now the satisfaction of believing ,that he had the sant-
tion of a large portico of both houses of pulls-
' meat and the people of this country in moving the
second reading of the bill before their lordships. It
had been said that there were impediments in the way of
such a measure; and it had also been asked, was not her
Majesty at liberty to establish the same relation, with Rome
es with other countries ? It was necessary, perhaps, that
he should call attention for a moment to these doubts. It
had been supposed that two acts, one called the Bill of
Rights, the lot of Wm. & Mary, and the other an set far
settling the succession—and he merely named them to point
out the importance of not touching these acts without most
mature deliberation • acts which were the safeguards of the
constitution of this country ; and he would he the last to pro-
pose anything which would defeat the great and holy object
for which they became the law of the land—(Hear, hear)—
but it had been supposed from an expression in one of those
acts, which was not, however, referred to in the other, that
her Msiesty was disabled front establishing those relations
whkit it was the object of this bill to enable her to:do. Such,
bawever, was not his opinion. He thought their only object
was to prevent the august person who might be sitting oaths
Skeane of these realms from being spiritually reconciled le
lase. Bat there were those who had thought otherwise se
SI them e:0, and others had believed it contrary to the law
if England for the sovereign to send any ambassador to the
inert of Rome. Much had been said of the case of Lord
Castlemaim, but he thought the case of that noble lord, In
the reign of James H., proved that it was competent in the
sovereign, rather than otherwise. to send an ambassador te
Rome. The resolution of the Home of Commons was that
he had been guilty of high treason, not for accepting the
fission to Rome, but for endeavouring to reconcile the sove-
edge of this country with the see of Rome. But it was fair
gestate that men of high authority at that time entertained
•doubt as to this resolution of the home. Bishop Burnet,
ia adverting to this mission, stated that Lord Castlemain was
5 ty of high treason for going to Rome with such an oh-
but be mid the judges had great doubt oa the subject.
James Mackintosh had also said that it was illegal, and
there was certainly a great deal of doubt thrown over these
proceedings, which made it expedient that the power should
be given to her Majesty of appointing an ambassador. It
had been supposed, from the circumstances of that
time, that the sovereigns of this country had not
the power of making such an appointment. Such
had been the necessity of the cam in times of war and
peace that it had been found expedient to have diplomatic
relations with Rome, and by indirect measures negotiations
had been endeavoured, from time to time, to be set on foot
with the court of Rome, principally through the medium of
travellers going there ; and persons had thus acted to a cer-
tain extent without responsibility. This applied to a period
anterior to the Home of Hanover succeeding to the throne of
these realms; since that time, however, there had been hie-
quent communications with the court of Rome. Sir Robert
Walpole was in repeated communication with the Pope, and
he employed his brother, Mr. Horace Walpole, for that
purpose. The protestant government of Hanover
had established diplomatic relations with Rome, and
when the mown of Hanover was united to this
country, he believed, although he could not prove it, that It
was part of the policy of England to have diplomatic com-
11111111Cliti011i with the court of Rome. He might also allude
to the well known case of Sir John Cox Hippisley, who re-
sided at the court of Rome, and had direct communication
with the Pope, the cardinals, and the Pretender himself.
The happiest results occurred through his mediation;
through his interference, in fact, the Irretender received a
pension from this country to the end of his life. Lord Hood
also, at *host the commencement of the French revolution,
found the aid of the Pope necessary to obtain provisions, and
being no lawyer, be wrote home for advice, which led to a
declaration from Mr. Burke, who was asked if Lord Hood
could safely obtain the necessary supplies from the Pops.
Mr. Barks said that nobody could be so squeamish as to re-
fuse supplies because they came from the Pope. lie would
be a madmen who would not receive indulgences from a
prince bemuse he believed in purgatory. He would advocate
mate distinct and permanent political relations with Rouse.
and if this country declined them the bigotry would be on
NW part. In a blue book printed many years ago, he
also found that the late Duke of Portland entered into com-
munication with the Pope, or rather with Cardinal Auto-
milli, end the Duke of Portland expressed his high oblige-

to give the bill • second reading ; mad in the committee he
would move a proviso or an additional clause, providing for
the continued existence of those laws which he thought it
important to maintain inviolate.
Lord STANLEY said he bad never entertained any doubt
of the uniform sineerity sad uprightness of purpose of the
1 noble duke who had last spoken. (Hear, hear.) But if he
believed that the rights of the people of this country, or the
ruble and privileges of the monarch, were affecW by this
bill, or that the pretensions of the Pope to spirituel pre-
eminence sod temporary authority might be thereby
strengthened, no consideration could induce him to consent
to the second reading. Bat he did not believe that it in-
volved any violation of the principle on which the Bill of
Rights was founded. (Hear, hear.) Still, it being well
known that for the last two hundred years intercourse
with the court of Rome had been prohibited by • strong
moral feeling—or, it might be, by the prejudices of this pro-
wawa nation—no measure, hastily introduced as this bad
been, ought to be hastily carried, or without due considera-
tion by the countryat large. (Hear, hear.) The noble mar-
quis himself, on the part of the government, had declared,
by the introduction of this bill, that grave doubts bad existed
as to the interpretation of the statutes alluded to ; sail as
the practice had, for the last 180 yeses, been contrary to
what this bill went to sanction, it was clear that
the measure was. to all intents, an enacting bill,
empowering her Majesty to do what she could not
do as the law previously stood. The noble marquis
bad assumed that all the current of history and of opinion
was in favour of intercourse with Rome, prior to the acts in
question ; hut this was not so, as was evinced by the course
taken by the Duke of Somerset in the case referred to by the
noble marquis. Then, as to the policy of the measure, if it
were deemed necessary by government that her Majesty
should be freed from the existing restrictions, the proper and
most dignified course would have been to have introduced
the subject in the speech front the throne; or, if the neces-
sity was not then foreseen, at least to have made it the
subject of a special formal message to the hoses Instead
of that, the noble marquis had risen, after a debate on the
West India question, and had laid the bill on the table with
the arms nonchalance as if it had been nothing more than a
turnpike trust bill. (Hear, hear.) Surely that was not the
mode in which a great measure like this should be dealt
with ; and he hoped their lordships would not allow it to be
hastily slurred over. (Hear, hear.) Even, in the interest
of the bill itself, the fullest opportunity ought to be given
for its thorough consideration. The noble mantels might,
at least, have made some communication as to the late pro-
ceedings at the court of Rome, sad have informed their lord-
ships what was the result of the intercourse which had taken
place between Lord Minto and that court. It might be said
that that intercourse was unofficial ; and if there were really
say impediment to this intercourse in existing sets of parlia-
ment, Rad Minto, and the noble lord at the head of foreign
affairs had placed themselves is a very difficult position.
For in a despatch dated in October bat the *obis earl was
requested by Lord Palmerston to press on the court of Rome
the removal' me
the Jesuits front Switzerland, with the view
of preventing war in that country. Earl Mink, in his
reply, stated that he had bad some conversation on the sub-
ject with the cardinal secretary of state, and said he
should continue to ;rem for the Pops's interposition in the
matter. It might be said this was mere conversation but,
in the face of • law which was presumed to prohibit diplo-
matic intercourse, here was an official instruction from the
foreign secretary to Lord Mink to undertake • certain nego-
tiation; and a regular official report from that noble lord as
to the result of his representations. This correspondence
had been officially laid on the tables of both hours; and it
this intercourse were not penal under existing acts, be was at
• loss to know what kind of diplomatic intercourse
could be so. (Hear, hear.) It could not be said
that this intercourse was private and confidential
for the government bad themselves furnished official
copies thereof. Hence, as it was net to be presumed that
the noble marquis and his colleagues had knowingly incur-
red the penalties of pronsimire, what became of the argu-
ment in favour of the necessity of this measure as a means
of facilitating diplomatic intercourse with the court of Rome t
(Hear.) The noble marquis had cited an instance of direct
intercourse with that court ; but this had taken place at a
time when all Europe was involved in war, and under the
pressure of the strongest necessity. He did not deny that
there might be conveniences and advantages attending •
diplomatic intercourse with the wart of Rome ; but it
should be well considered whether there might at be con-
nected therewith inconveniences and disadvantages of a still
stronger character. (Hear.) As to the Pope's spiritual
authority in this realm, no one supposed that the oath of ab-
, juration meant to deny that a very large class of our fellow
subjects did consider themselves subject to the spiritual ad-
vise and authority of the Pontiff; what was implied was
Ude, est the sodterity in question was not such u could be
seppeneid by the laws of this country, but merely one
famed in opinion. No one disputed the authority which a
=6lllll IMS would possess over an Irish Roman
Mbar. It was, therefore, idle to allege that this
Mil wen nesessesy for the purpose of diplomatic intercourse,
In Mr VII in which that necessity bad been repre-
ssed's& TM fact was, the Pope had authority
Over OW Roman catholic fellow-subjects ; and the
goverment were now seeking to establish rela-
tions with the Pope, in order to secure his authority being
exercised in the least offensive manner. The government
must admit that this was the real object of the bill. (Hear.)
Then arose the question, did this measure unction and
strengthen the papal authority ? If he believed it to have
that effect, he should directly oppose it. He believed the
present Pope to be a liberal and well-intentioned man • who
Cher he was a farseeing and discreet man might be do;tlited,
for he feared he bad entered on • course, politically speak-
ing, which was full of danger. However this might be, it
was evident that no man who had recently occupied the
papal chair had exercised his spiritual authority with so
high • hand. (Hear, hear.) In the case of the Irish col-
the course pursued by Pius the Ninth was most ill-
and reprehensible. (lieu, hear.) Had this country
diplomatic relations at that court, remoutranose might
have been offered ; and if these remonstrances had been dis-
regarded, which was probable, would not that have led to
more serious misunderstandings with the court of Rome than
if no such relations had existed ? (Hear, hear.) Hence, he
doubted whether the inconveniences that might result from
this measure might not outweigh the probable advantages.
Though he was far from thinking with the noble duke (Wel-
lington) that because the government had laid this bill on
the table the house ought to give it a second reading,
he was yet willing to allow it to proceed, reserving his right
to give it full consideration afterwards ; and he hoped the
government would allow a sufficent interval for this purpose,
before the bill passed its remaining stages. The noble mar-
quis had expressed his readiness to adopt any amendment
which might be thought necessary for giving greater security
to the protestant church ; and he thanked the noble lord on
the woolsack for the important provisoes which he had sug-
gested. He did not object to the bill because it recognised
the temporal sovereignty of the Pope in his own dominions;
this had already been fully recognised by this country. But
he much doubted whether the recognition was reciprocal, as
the noble marquis intimated ; for it was undeniable that
claims had been put forward at different times by the papacy
, wholly inconsistent with the temporal authority of the Queen
of England in her dominion,. (Hear.) He doubted whe-
ther it was consistent with the dignity of a great country like
this to enter into diplomatic relations with any power, with-
out a clear and express declaration on the part of that powet
of the temporal authority at least of our *sunrise. (Hear,
hear.) Unless such provision were introduced he should feel
obliged to oppose the bill. _ln every other country, catholic
as well as protestant, it had been found necessary to place
their diplomatic relations with Rome on a more limited foot-
ing than those with any other country ; the reason being
the extreme difficulty. of drawing the boundary line between
the temporal and spiritual authority of the Pope. In the
case of Prussia some special provisions of the kind he now
suggested were made before entering into diplomatic inter-
course with Rome. With regard to our ambassador at
Rome, the advantages and inconveniences might be nearly
balanced; but if a papal envoy were admitted here, espe-
cially if allowed to combine spiritual with temporal autho-
rity, the probable inconveniences would be very serious;
and the people of this country would require very strong so-
ciality against the abuse of such power. This power ought
especially to be guarded with reference to the admission of
bulb" and rescripts. As they were about to introduce a papal
envoy into this country, precautions not necessary in Ro-
man catholic countries ought to betaken to prevent bulls and
rescripts being admitted or permitted to come in which bad not
obtained the previous sanction of the government. These were
the points to which it was right the attention of their lordships
should be directed. Some of these points were calculated to
satisfy the apprehensions of the public, and it was on these
grounds that, though be was not prepared to join with the
noble duke who had moved the amendment in negativing
the second reading of this:thin and which mmendinent he
hoped would not be premed to a division, still he wished to
see how far the objection to the measure might be removed
in committee ; but he should reserve to himself the entire
right to take any course which he might think expedient on
the third reading of the bill. He would not now pledge
himself to the final adoption of the measure, but he hoped
that, on a matter of so much importance, worthy, he would
not say the prejudices, but the religious feeling of the people,
ample time would be given for the consideration of the bill
as it would stand after the introduction of those amendments
which their lordships in their wisdom might think fit to
adopt. (Hear hear.)
Earl GREY' expressed the great utisfaction he felt that
the noble lord who had just sat down, and who had carefully
scrutinised this measure to discover every possible defect,
found no greater fault with it than the manner in which it
had been introduced. The noble lord said that a measure
of such vast importance, involving considerations of serious
political consequences, ought not to have been brought in
without in the first instance having been announced to par-
liament by her Majesty in the speech from the throne, or,
at all events, by a formal massage sent by the crown to heti
branches of the legislature. This objection was unworthy
of the noble lord, for it was new to him (Earl Grey) that
such a course was necessary; and if no more serious fault
could be found, he was content to leave it without any
answer. With respect to the introduction of the bill, it had
been laid upon the table by his noble friend the President
of the Council in a manner strictly in accordance with the
practice of the house, and his noble friend had, as usual
reserved any explanation or discussion of the unsure until
he moved the second reading, and to-night he had not failed
to lay the case fully and completely before their lordships.
The cue his noble friend had made out must have marled
conviction to the mind of almost every individual Stan had
heard him. But then the noble lord opposite (Lordl aywell
found fault with the short interval which had been
to elapse between the introduction of the bill and its second
reading. He (Earl Grey) owned that he was askehk ad
that this objection should have been raised by the 'whisked
because he himself had suggested that if a nuanable interval
of
'given before the second reading, there would be no sort
of olojection to proceeding with the bill in committee on the
following day. The government had no wish to hurry the
boll to • discussion, and had allowed a fair interval to elapse,
but not to al so distant a day for the second reading that thi

•••
ties to the Pope for assentimg M soma positions of all
clerical nature which he had Mb tO •01114 of
oar colonies. Other cases might be ettod of a simile" eke-
-1
rector, and necessity forcing
_he way at all name thsaugh
every prejudice, the prudes Sad Ismanse, Knot the law, the
custom of this country. (Hear, hear.) He had many re-
cord; from the Poroien-ofitu to, pewee ft. In the time of
Lord Grenville application was made to the Pope to allow
us to navigate a certain part of the Mediterranean ; at
another time an appeal had been made to him to allow our
troops to pass through his territory, and on both occasions
this country thanked him for the wens which he pur.
sued. Was this, then, the find time we had recog-
nised the Pope? (Hear, hear.) Why, what became
of the treaty of Vienna, by which certain possessions were
secured to the Pope and others granted to him, Great Bri-
tain being a party to that ;treaty ? And who put the great
seal to it ? Why Lord Chancellor Eldon, who was, per-
haps, more adverse to the spiritual ucendancy of the Pope
than any man of his day. (Hear, hear.) A short time after
that treaty, when his late Majesty George IV. succeeded to
the throne of thew realms, the Pope of that day addressed
to him a congratulatory letter on his accession, and, through
$ circuitous diplomatic chime, it reached the King, who,
with the feelings of a sovereign and a gentleman, imme-
diately replied to it. It was, however, told him afterward.
that it was doubtful whether be had not forfeited his crown
and subjected himself to penalties by such an ace of courtesy.
A messenger was at once despatched to Italy to endeavour to
atop the letter, but it was too late. (Lauehter.) He
said, then, that we had repeatedly acknowledged
the Pope, who had also recognised the sovereign
of this country ; and if this *prim of intercourse was to
continue, why should it not be dons in broad daylight, and
by the only means which could afford security foe the pro-
per conduct of such negotiations ? (Hear, beer.) He be-
lieved, therefore, the time had come for making the law
explicit on the subject. (Hear, hear.) He could not think,
because 180 years ago a popish sovereign was engaged in •
guilty mission to the Court of Rome, which signary failed,
that, after the lapse of nearly a century and • half, and when
diplomatic intercourse wee of twofold importance to the
welfare of the state, he could not thick their lordships
would say that her Majesty should be debarred from esta-
blishing relations from which no evil, but, on the contrary,
great benefit would arise. (Hear, bear.) He would be the
last person to ask their lordships to countenance anything
that would give the Pope spiritual power in this opn7. ,
and if any noble lord doubted it, there were no words width
would :provide against such an evil that he would object
to see introduced Into the bill. (Hear, hear.) It
applied to diplomatic relations einly, which would
surely be most beneficial daring peace, and oleo he believed
in time of war; in fact, upon every consideration, it was
desirable that the Court of Rome should be incorporated
with the general system of diplomatic intercourse which
misted with regard to all other countries—(hear, bear)—
and he had much pleasure, therefore, in moving the second
reading of the bill. (Hear, hear.)
The Duke of NEWCASTLE opposed the bill, but spoke
in so low a tone as to be inaudible in the gallery. He moved
that the bill be read that day six months.
The Bishop of WINCHESTER admitted the great im-
portance of the present measure. Thu penult* ground en
which the noble marquis rested his defea- co Mit was the In-
convenience which atom front being obliged, is the unser-
Minty of the law as it stood at present, to have recourse to
indirect communications with the court of Rome. But
whenever is was necessary to hold communications with
that court on secular matters, some mode—although it
might not be the most desirable one—always
itself of effecting that object. (Hear, bear.) ltseameti
marquis, however, forgot that there might be inconveniences
the other way. (Hear, hear.) These inoonveniences might
be conceived to be of such a character as would determine
their lordship not to allow any direct communications with
the court of Rome. The of the bill showed how
easy it was to elide into and Menge
' one's self with the
langtutge of popery ; for the language of the bill was, that •
minister from this was to be accredited to " the
Sovereign Pontiff." (Hearcountry, hear.) This was the first time
that the Bishop of Rome was so designated in an act of par-
liament. In other acts he was called " the Bishop of Rome,"
or the "Pope of Rome." (Hear, hear.) He
bogged to disclaim any intention of appearing disrespectful
to the Roman catholic members of their lordships' house.
If they '
passed this measure, he thought they must go a
step further and must repeal the 13th Will. 111., G. 6. That
act referred to the Bill of Rights and the Act of Settle-
ment, "on which," the words of the statute said, " the
safety of your Majesty's royal person and government, the
existence of the monarchy, the continuance of the Church
of England, and the future peace and tranquillity of the
kingdom, entirely depend." He begged of their lordships
to pause before they disturbed en act on which such im-
portant considerations depended. He begged leave to sup-
port the amendment. (Hear, hear.)
The Bishop of ST. DAVID'S said it was evident, from
the noble marquis's statement, that the law, as it stood at
present, was by no means co clear that a violation of the Bill
of Rights would be committed if her Majesty were advised
to send an ambassador to Rome. With respect
to the political necessity of 'the measure, he be-
lieved there could be no doubt. That necessity had
existed in former times, and they were now only
asked to legalise what had been the established practise of
all governments from the Revolution to the present time. It
was doubtful whether the measure introduced any innova-
tion in law ; it was quite clear it introduced no substantial
innovation in practice, and the kind of innovation which it
introdaced was that it made those communications plain,
open, and honourable, which heretofore were neither plain,
open, nor honourable. The right rev. prelate, baying paid a
tribute of praise to the eminent qualities of the present pope,
went on to argue that there was nothing in the religious as-
pect.of the bill which should prevent their lordships from
passing it. He did not pay much regard to the argument
derived front the mode of describing the Bishop of Rome in
the bill as " the sovereign pontiff." That was • familiar and
common mode of describing him, and even pro-
testant ecclesiastical writers constantly and regu-
larly styled him " the pontiff," or " the sove-
reign pontiff." However, he supposed the government
would alter those words without hesitation. (Hear hear.)
With respect te that part of the measure which related to
the accrediting of a minister from Rome here, it might be
right to introduce a modifying clause, requiring. that the
person accredited should not be an ecclesiastic, or possessed
of an ecclesiastical character. That was a concession which
he thought fairly due to the feelings of the people of this
country. As a whole, he looked on the measure as one
required by the circumstances of the times; it was essential
to the political interests of the country—it was one attended
with no shadow of danger to the established religion, and
therefore he hoped and Waned that no doubt as to the
question of law would prevent their lordships from assenting
to it in substance. (Hear, bear.)
The Bishop of EXETER emphatically denied that the
words " sovereign pontiff" were habitually used by protestant
writers in reference to the Bishop of Rome. The alumnus
pontifex was, according to the canon law, the head of the
church ; be was above all patriarchs, metropolitans, and
bishop. But he denied that the Bishop of Rome was the
sovereign pontiff. He reclaimed against the principle laid
down by the right rev. prelate, and which he believed had
for the first time been announced bya protestant prelate in
a British senate. (Hear, hear.) There were so many blots
in the present measure that he thought it should not be al.
lowed to be sent before a committee. The plain and safe
course which might be adopted by the government was, to
call the judges together and take their opinion on the state
of the law. But, instead of that, they brought in a bill, and
asked for the decision of the legislature, which he thought
an unwise course. He was strongly opposed to that part of
the bill which referred to the arm-dicing of an ambassador
from the court of Rome. Other protestant countries sect
envoys to Rome, and they arranged their diplomatic
business there. Prussia adopted that course, but
Prussia did not receive an envoy from Rome.
Was London alone to have the high distino-
tion of being blessed with a nuncio? Was Rome to,
raise her scarlet head again at St. James's ? Was that the
course of policy which the noble marquis advised the house
to adopt? The time might come when the utmostdanger
would arise from having an accredited minister of Rome in
London. His person, by the law of nations, was sacred, and
plots the most =whim= and dangerous to the peace and
safety of the realm might be batched under hie auspices.
They heard a great deal of additional national defences, and
a very great addition to their national defences would be re-
quired lithe policy now proposed were adopted. In Ireland
thejority of the people were ready to join any foreign
power who would oppose this country. He looked upon the
present policy, therefore as nothing short of treason against
the protestant crown and the protestant church, and would
strenuously oppose it. (Hear, hear.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON said that her Majesty's
government desired, in the circumstances of Italy, to in-
crease and facilitate the means of communication with the
Boman states, and they called on that house to give a second
reeding to the bill. He confessed when he first heard of the
measure he considered of it with some degree of 'misty,
for he had upon all occasions in which he had to make pro-
positioas to their lordship in relation to the Roman
catholic of this country considered it his duty to take the
utmost eare not to touch on any of the provisions of thaw
laws upon which the reformation in this country and the es-
tablished church depended. It certainly was the intention
of those laws that there should be no communication what-
ever, political or otherwise, between this country and the
eovereign of the states of Rome, and these laws remained in
operation at the present time. A great alteration was made,
howeve(Lok r by the lawur introduced by the noble and learned
lord st), called the 9th and 10th Vic., c. 58.
bigatch the penance incurred for violating them were mi-
and in some cases entirely repealed. All the noble
and learned lords who addressed the house on that occasion
elated that the enactments of the law remained the sense,
but that some of the acts prohibited remained misdemeanors
at common law. Ho was satisfied with those USUIVICOS
but he confessed he felt anxious about the effect of
this measure on those particular laws. He therefore
intended to give notice of a proviso enguring the supre-
macy of the crown in all matters spiritual and temporal,
and that this should be always wandered inviolable.
He oonaidered that such • proviso would be satisfactory to
the sentry—(hen, hear)—and extremely nodal in any
measures that might have been adopted under the law as it
stood, (lieu, hear.) He conceived that the gover.n-
ment, being desirous to bare clear and accurate in-
thrmation as to events in Italy, and knowing the convenience
and advantage to be derived from a regular diplomatic com-
munication with the Roman states, had broptht forward this
measure with a view to remove the obstacles which the
adding laws might (resent to such a regular diplomatic
Communication, it being desirable that that communication
should be carried on in a regular and official form. (Hey,
hear.) If no other advantage were derived from it, there
would be that of being 'Pertain that true intelligence was re-
ceived from a responsible agent ; and that alone was
big desirable in a country where her Majesty's sub-
tle* had not sush privileges as th have in some others.
Vadat those circumstances he recommended their lordships

THE EXPRESS FRIDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 18, 1848.

country might be lashed into • sort of artificial agitation.
After finding these petty faults, and dealing in this minute
sort of criticism, the noble lord had proceeded to make some
comments which, so far from being arguments against the
bill, were in fact strong arguments in its favour. He bad
sated Lord Mina's despatches, and argued from them that
assay there was clearly a diplomatic intercourse between
Isms sad this country, and that if the palatine of promo-
...to bmi scion, d 7 bail been incurred by her Majesty's
Ear
3= mehmenet bad
oirver pretended
on his own pleasure. On the contrary, he
was there for an vented üblic object, but the
existing state of affairs pr hiss having formal
letters to the Pope. He had no proper authority to act as
the representative of the British crown at the court of Rome,
but at the same time it bad never been concealed that be
bad taken an active part is the affairs of that country. This
WY the very ease the government brought forward is favour
of this bill, as showing the necessity which had existed and
still did exist, for intercourse of • diplomatic nature
between the two countries. The manner in which
that intercourse had hitherto been carried on, had been most
unsatisfactory. It was of frequent occurrence that the
government had to communicate with the court of Rome in
reference to the ealosiastical affairs in many of the colonies
where the Roman catholic religion prevailed, and hence it
was of importance this country should have a recognised
representative at Rome. Undoubtedly it would not have been
rigot to have sent Lord Mintoto Rome if the govemmenthad
not contemplated the very step which it had now taken
in asking parliament to put the intercourse upon a
proper footing. The noble lord opposite had said that no
protestant state marred as an envoy from Rome any sale-
siasti;, sod he had instanced the case of Prussia. This
restriction, however, did not rest upon the law of Prussia,
bat simply on the pleasure of the King and his government.
and on that pleasure they had declined to receive an each
siastic as ambassador. In the same way, if this bill paid, it
would be open to the government of this country,. he that
government whom it might, to decline to receive any
ambassador if they thought any inconvenience or danger
would arise from has presence here, and therefore it appeared
to him (Earl Grey) to be unnecessary that the bill should
contain any. such clause of restriction as that of which notice
had been given. It would be difficult to frame a clause to
define who would be a safe ambassador to be admitted from
the court of Rome, and therefore it was better that the
responsibility should be left upon the government far
the time bias. The clause of which the noble duke
at the table (the Duke of Wellington) had given notice
would be a decided improvement in the bill; for though he
(Earl Grey) thought the bill was perfectly safe as it stood,
this clause would make assurance double sure," and teed
to allay unnecessary fears which prevailed out the walls
of pirlianient. lienee the government gave their adhesion
to that clause. There was no other point to which he (East
Grey) felt it necessary at present to advert, except as to
what had fallen from • right reverend prelate early in the
debate, who appeared to hint to admit the policy, expe-
diency, and legality (under the existing laws) of diplomatic
intercourse with the court of Rome ; for the objection of the
right reverend prelate simply was, that the bill was oast-
; and he desired that the opinion of the In
sheernals7 be taken as to the law as it actually stood this
Now, according to the forms of the house, if this
=ad. not been before it, it was sot compeernt to consult
the judges on • question of the kind, for they could
only be consulted on questions of law arising on the
proceedings of the house in its legislative or judicial
character. As to the fears of the right rev. prelate, he
would my that all the bill was intended to accomplish was to
plate the law clearly and undoubtedly on the footing on
which the right rev. prelate stated it now rested, and to
make it lawful for her Majesty to appoint an ambesesdor to
the court of Rome, should she so think tit, on the advice of
her responsible ministers. (Hear, hear.)
The Duke of RICHMOND said he was prepared to vote
against the second reading of this bill, for in; his opinion
there never had bees time lees fitting than the present to
make say farther concession to the Roman eatholics. This
measure would be considered a concession by the Roman
catholic. of Ireland, who, with their priests, had already
taught this country the lesson, that the more that was given,
the more they demanded; the greater the concession, the
more uageMful they were for what was done for them.
The Earl of ELDON said as yet he had not heard a single
valid reason why this bill even as amended in the manner
proposed should pass into • law.
The Earl of St. GERMANS sail he should give his cor-
dial support to this messure—(hest, hear)—and confessed he
did not participate in the apprehenaions suggested with
respect to the admission of an ecclesiastic as ambassador to
this country from the court of Rome. He thought, as this in-
volved matters of ecclesiastical polity, it was desirable to have
here the presence and assistants of an ecclesiastic as envoy.
If such an individual was found to be obnoxious or inoonve
nient, the government bad the power to rend him back. The
noble earl, who was most indistinctly heard, was understood
to express his approbation of the clause suggested by the
noble duke (the Duke of Wellington), and, with this addi-
tion, he should cordially support the hill, which he hoped
would not be impaired by any further alteration. (Hear.)
Lord REDESDALE gave notice, that in committee he
should move the insertion of a clause to the effect that it
should not be lawful for the crown to appoint an ambassador
to the court of Rome until the Pops disavowed all temporal
and civil jurisdiction, either directly or indirectly, within the
realm.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, in reply, denied that the
measure was intended as • concession to the Roman catho-
lice. It was proposed as • conotasion to expediency, and
state necessity. With respect to the mission of Lord idiom,
there wan* act dons—no instruction sent out—that he (the
Marquis of Lansdowne) was not prepared to defend, and to
show that it had been for the best interests of this country
that this had been done. The success of Lord Minto's
mission was the best, the strongest, and the most
unanswerable illustration of the necessity for this
bill. That mission had saved Europe the horrors of
a dreadful civil war in Switzerland. (Hear, hear
If their lordship. would now consent to the secon
reading of the bill, he should fix to-morrow (this day) for
the committee.-
The Duke of NEWCASTLE withdrew his amendment;
the bill was read • second time, and ordered to be com-
mitted to-morrow (this day).
Their lordships adjourned at 25 minutes to tea o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TnuRaDAY, FED. 17.
The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINEB&
SECOND READlNO.—lrisester Navigation (Sale of Leeds on
Pored Line), But.
GREAT HARLOW ELECTION PETITION.
Sir J. PAKINOTON reported from the committee upon
the petition against the return for the borough of Great
Marlow, that lhomes Peeres Williams, Esq., and Lieut.-CoL
Brewnlow Knox were duly elected.
LEAVE OF ABSENCE.
On the motion of Mr. Turt(ELL, leave of absence was
granted to Lord Albert Coombs= for two months, on ac-
count of urgent private business. On the motion of Mr. S.
CRAITTOILD, absence was granted to Mr. Tennent for a fort-
night, on the same ground.
ISLE OF MAN.
Dr. BOWRING postponed until this day fortnight his mo-
tion on the grievances of the inhabitants of the Isle of Mao.
SITTINGS OF COMMITTEES ON WEDNESDAYS.
Mr. B. COCHRANE asked if it was not the duty of the
officers of the house to give notice to the several committees
that the house was sitting ?
Mr. F. MAULE said it was perfectly well known to all
members that the house sat every Wednesday at 12 o'clock,
and it was in the power of any member of a committee to
move an adjournment of the same, in order that members
might attend the house.
NATIONAL LAND COMPANY.
Mr. BRIGHT said that the other evening the hon. mem-
ber for Nottingham had postponed his motion respecting the
National Land Conny, because the Attorney-General had
suggested certain diftulties respecting it which required °Nisi-
devotion. Would the Attorney-General inform the house
whether these difficulties were of a legal character, as there
were very many persons interested in the subject ?
(The ATTORNEY-GENERAL had made it his busi-
ness to ascertain the nature of the scheme in ques-
tion. He would not, on the present occasion, my whether or
no it was such a scheme as, if applied to officially, he could
certify the legality of. He would only observe, that the
parties connected with it bad not hitherto thought proper to
submit it to that test.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR said, that the hon. and learned ipir
amain, he believed, was mistaken in that point, fee the
scheme had, he believed, been submitted to him, and he re-
fused to certify.
NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT.
In answer to Mr. 0. TRORPsON,
Sir R. INGLIS said, that he proposed to bring forward
his motion respecting the new house of parliament, on
Thursday, 2nd Mara _