The Express.
London, England, 1865-06-21 00:00:00

• THEEX B SS, 21iiiDlif1SIV# EVENING, JUN1021;144365.

6

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT•

&rade ineooveoiesoa would thu be iseariessi which
Iniebt in some degree have bun modified.
The Duke of RICHMOND said be could not ogres with
the noble lord who had jut eat down as to the advisability
of intuiting the area of chargeability to the whole
country. One gnat objection ia Anise* to what was called
a national rue was, that they must ouesaully have govern-
, meet authority in the management of the poor, and do
away with that excellent system that now existed, by
which they bad farmers, and Lode...one, sod magistrates.
aad clergy working together for the benefit of the poor.
He believed that this mature would roofer a great benefit
cc the labourer, and be thought also that it would be an
improvesout Ise the admioutratiou of the poor-law itself.
It had bees admitted generally that the able.bodied, active.
sad welleonditioned labourer would be be ne fited
be ibis chew, inasmuch ad be would not be fet-
tered aa he was at present. but would be able to take his
labour to • larger market, and thereby get • larger price
• for it. Itad n said • nobe frid of his that
though the h
activebee and good labourelr would be baufited.
the Infirm and old !shouter would not be able to get work,
end would be worse off. Hs (the Duke of Richmond) ad-
mitted that at dent sight this argument bad some plaus
lity in it, hot he thought that if it were thoroughly looked
late that objection would fall to the ground. He thought
that the affairs of the unions would he managed much as
they were at present. The guardians who attended were
generally few in number. In the union that be war eon-
nested with out of fifty-nice guerdiaos„ fortyaix being
;elected and eleven being ex offiem, the oversee attendance
&win last year was eleven, and therefore these eleven
practically csnied on the affairs of the whole
ankle. They would for the future probable
continue to do so, sod they would discover
after • time that every shilling of the funds of the union
that was improperly spent would be so much out of their
pockets, ',wording to their holdings, and the farmer would
see that by throwing the labourer on the rates instead of
giving him employment he would be throwing an expeodi-
tare oo the rates which he himself would have to pay. And
besides this there would be this advantage' that it would
not only be the Meerut of the farmer in his parish to employ
the labourer, but it would be equally the interest of the
farmers in the surrounding parishes. In fact, after a time,
though it was possible it would take a little time to get it
into working order, but after a time the affairs of the
union would be worked and trebled just as were sow
the affairs of • large paish. Then he must sey
that the present law had no doubt very muth
fostered the close pariah system was nearly exploded under
which bottom were pulled down, and under which there was
an ioduoemont not to build cottages. He would not weary
their lordships by going through the evidence on this
matter, but be warvery much satooiabed to hear it stated
that there was no evidence that cottages had been polled
down. If noble lords would read the evidence before Mr.
Holler's commission in 1837 and that before the :committee
st last year they would see abuodaoce of evidence that
cottages were pulled dun, sad that there was not in.
&Dement enough to build Dew ones. The argument that
the existing law prevented the building „of cottagesthis
was, he thought, moat:lel/crab's. The legislation on
subject had been tending in this direction for a considerable
time ; they had thrown pauper lunatics on the common
fond, and the salaries of the officials; and Mr. Lambert, one
lot the Poor law inspectors, stated that more than oise-bato
lf
of the expenses under the Poor-law were now chargeable
the anion, In point of fact, therefore, they by this bill
only put on the moon the remaining portion, which was lea
than a moiety, sod as they had gone so far in legislating in
this direction it would be idle to atop. (Hear, hear.)
The bill was then read a third time and passed, and
The house adjourned at ball-pest seven o'clock.

HOUSE OF LOIRDS.—TonsDAY, Joni 20.
The hoses met at 5 o'clock.
Lard AVELAND prematad • petition frees Wigtoft,
Lieeolathire against the Union Chargeability Bill.
Sul SPENCER presented petitions in favour of the
17alea Chargeability Bill from Long Buckley, Spratton, and
Whitten, is themes!' of Nottingham.
Lard ST. LEONARDS peseented • petition from the
Chamber of Commerce and manufacturers of the city of
Edinburgh. praying that provision may be made in the Law
of Partnership Bill for the registration of mocha pushier-
ships, and for preventing the withdrawal of the mosey ad-
mimed before the time contracted for.
PRIVATE BILLS.
The following bills wets read • third thee and pasha
lialtby's Estate Bill, Cranford and Belem Erma. Mae-
chaste Corporation Water, Heysham Pier, Rieknieneworth,
Avethate, and Chahar° Railway. Sutherland Railway,
Barnstable Reeds, Crays Gas, and Belfast New Streets.
RAILWAY DEBENTURES, REGISTRATION
BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
PUBLIC-HOUSES CLOSING ACT (1864) AMENDMENT
BILL.
On the report of ameedmeate to this bill,
The Earl of DONOUGHMORE presented petitions
from market gardeners and drovers shandies Manchester
market, and from compositors employed on the Manchester
Courier, and from the
(Manehester Licensed Victuallers'
Association all praying the restoration of the fifth
clause of th'is bilL
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented petitions
with • similar prayer from Wakefield. Chelmsford, sod
several other places. He said Ii was • greet hardship to
drovers and market prdenem who had walked all eight to
market, mid who were not able to procure refrosbaseam.
He hoped the government would agree to the bill as it stood
whets it cams up from the Cornrows.
Earl GRANVILLE said the question did not affect the
principle of the bill, but only a clause which had been in-
troduced in the other house. AU the anticipations as to
the greet advantage of closing night homes after 1 o'clock in
the morning bad been realised since the passing of the act.
end no complaints had been made as to the manner in which
the police had exercised their discretionary power to grant
maul licenses for keeping houses open after that hour. He
trusted, therefore, that their lordships would not consent to
the introduction of the clause proposed by the noble
marquis.
The Earl of DERBY apprebeeded that the difficulty
which had arisen visa to be attributed to the manner in
which the existing law was introduced. The act in question
was passed to meet • crying evil which prevailed principally
in certain parts of Lmdon ; but power was given to enable
provincial towns to adopt its provisions if they chine to do
so. A great many townshad aocepted the act, and ea the
erbois it had worked well sad been received favourably ;
bat is the case of certain trades and business, mid in cer-
tain localities, it was found that public•housee could not be
eloeed within the prohibited hours without serious incon-
venience. Coesequently, proviaions were iotroduesd to
stable the mhos to grant home's exempting houses front
the operation of the act under certain circumstances ; bat
no provision was made for granting special theses'
to meet the case, for instance, of county meet-
lags and county balls, or other exceptional men,
which did not apply to the metropolis. The question
now was whether in these cases the discretionary power for
granting these licenses should be vested is the chief of the
polies or the magistrates is petty sessions. With el re-
seect for that earful body, the police, he thought the mom
they confined them to their executive duties, and the leas
they conferred upon them judicial timelines, the better.
(Hear, hear.) In his opinion, the magistrates constituted •
more fitting tribunal to decide these matters. He had seen
• notice issued by one of the chiefs of the police, stating that
be would not grant. any special licenses under any circum- '
Mamas whatever to his district, and thus one perms bad
the powerto make the law • dead letter. He hoped their
lordships would restart the clause which had been inserted
in the bill by the House of Commons.
Earl GRANVILLE intimated that he would consent to
the clause of the noble marquis provided the metropolis
was exempted from its operation.
The Marquis of CLABILICARDI accepted the proposal of
the noble earl, and
The clause was agreed to, on the understanding that
another clause should be introduced on the third reading
exempting the metropolis.
LOCOMOTIVES ON ROADS BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
The Admiralty Acts Repeal Bill, the Admiralty Powers
Bill, and the Dodlyarde Ports Regulation Bill, were
respectively read a second time.
PRISONS BILL.
Earl GRANVILLE, in movie(' the second reading of this
bill, said it had two objects—the consolidation of the
preset law on the subject of prisons—but as the bill was
one of great detail, he would not enter into its provisions,
bat would be ready to consider any impatiens which might
be made for its improvement.
The Earl of CARNAR VON said he agreed almost entirely
with the proposals in the bill, which caned oat very fairly
and fully the recommeadatione of the select committee
which sat on the subject two or three years ago. He would
certainly have preferred the bill in the original shape is
which it emanated from the Home-office, but none
of the alterations made in it affected the principle.
He thought the proper rule to pursue was this,
that during abort sentences, and during the
eerie staged of imprisonment. • criminal should be kept
at what was called bard and unproductive labour, and then
by degrees passed through higher chases of emi.loyment. A
system of classes was indispensable. As to the bill itself,
the hard labour clans*, as originally framed, seemed to him
to be one which entirely met the recommendation of the se-
sect committee. He found, however, that • change had sioce
been made, and that the six months had been reduced to
three. He regretted this change very much, and thought
the clause should be restored as it originally stood. He
observed there was a clause which provided for the abolition
of solitary confinement. This was altogether • new feature
in the bill, and in direct opposition to the recommendation
of the select committee.
The bill was then read a second time.
MALL BENEFICES (IRELLL.AND) ACT AMENDMENT
BI
The Arebbialiop of DUBLIN moved the second reedig
el this bill, the object of which was to amend the 23rd
and 24th Victoria, and sseimilate the law of Ireland to
that of England in some matters of church and to
remove some serious diseouragements to church building and
church esdoemeut in that country. It was proposed to
enable ecolssiestiad patrons to bind themselves and their
snotemors legally, so that trustees who built and endowed
churches should not have all future appointments beside
the first.
The bill was read • wood time.
LAND DEBENTURES (IRELAND) BILL.
The Earl of CORK moved that this bill be committed
to • committee of the whole house. He was induced to
take this course, feeling that the measure was • very bone-
fish! one. Its main object was to enable landowners in
Ireland to raise money cheaply and speedily, without com-
plc:alien their titles, while at the same time capitalists
were provided with • secure opening for investment. It
would also enable an owner to pay off incombnaoss at his
own coovenienoe, and in small sums. This was • subject
which bad long attracted great attention in Ireland, and
be believed the bill would generally increase the value of
land, sod afford additional inducements to purchasers.
Lord ST. LEONARD/3 said the select committee had
determined cot to proceed with the bill upon principle, and
not with ieference to any particular provisions. The object
of the measure was to enable proprietors of Irish estates to
make a sham mortgage, to get it registered, and then to
hem dale/ahem upon their property to the amount of that
sham mortgage. Ireland had been ruined in consequence of
proprietors encumbering their catalog to au extent which
compelled them to sell at a considerable loss, and he hoped
their lordthips would sot, by passing this bill, bold out
additional inducements to them to effect m
The Earl of DONOUGHMORE considereodrasagtele noble
earl was quite justified in appealing to the house from the
decision of the committee, the rejection of the bill having
bees determined upon by. • majority of five noble lords con-
nected with England against three convected with Ireland.
There was no greater want in Ireland than the application
of capita.] to the cultivation of the soil, and any measure
which would promote that object would be a boon to the
landed proprietors of the country.
Their lordships divided :
Per the motion 5l
Against l4-37
The house then went into committee on the bill, and it
pawed through committee with two amendments.
The following bills passed through committee without
amendment :—Mortgage Debentures Bill, Prisons (Scotland)
Act Aumudment Bill, Trespass (Scotland) Bill, }ketosis&
aka! Leasing Act (1858) Amendment Bill, Piers and Harbour
Orders Goofireastioe Bill, Pilotage Order Confirmation
(No. 2) Bill, Smoke Nuisance (Scotland) Acts Amendment
Bill, Procurators (Scand) Bill, Churches and Chapels
Exemption (Scotland) Bill, Colonial Law Validity Bill,
Colonial Marriages Validity Bill, sad Defences Act (1860)
Amsedmeat BilL
UNION CHARGEABILITY BILL.
On the order of the day for the third reading of this bill,
Lord DENMAN said be twined the bill would be post-
poned till Tbonaoy, as it was so late in the seating.
Earl GRANVILLE said it was only • little after
T °Palo* sad be hoped the bill would be proceeded with.

HOUSE OF OOMMONS.—TIIINDAT, JUNI 20.
The Srsaicra took the chair at 12 o'clock.
SUPPLY.
The report of the committee of supply was brought up
and agreed to.
WAYS AND MEANS.
The house then went into committee on Ways and
Means, and some votes on account were agreed to.
EXCISE ACTS.
The house then went into committee on the Excise Acts.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the
following resolution :—" That, upon the delivery for home
consumption of any British compounded spirits which may
be warehoused in any customs or excise warehouse upon
drawback, there shall be paid for and in respect of and in
addition to every 1001. of the excise duty payable thereon
'the same rate. as are directed by the 15th motion of the
set passed in the 23rd year of the reign of her Majesty,
chapter 22 (as construed and explained by the sth section of
the act passel to the 23rd and 24th yearn of the same reign,
chapter 36), to be paid for every 1001. of customs
deity payable on goods toot being tobacco or sugar), delivered
for home consumption from any customs warehouse."
The resolution was agreed to.
COUNTY COURTS EQUITABLE JURISDICTION
I (JUDGES' SALARIES) iCONSOLIDATED FUND).
The house went into committee, and a motion was pro
nosed foe granting an addition to the salaries of County
Coact judges on ausaunt of their proposed equitable juris-
dicta**.
Mr. AUGUSTUS SMITH thought it would be better to
increase the number of County Court judges than the
salaries of the existing ones, especially as the latter would
lead to demands from others holding judicial positions.
Mr. LONGFORD regretted that the original plan was
not adhered to for some years longer. By this bill 300/. a
year for each judge, or 18,0001. in the aggregate. would be
added to the public expenses. The duties of the judges
va-
ried very greatly.
' Mr. F. PEEL said the object was to substitute a paymeet
out of the consolidated fond for the payment by fees which
would naturally arise out of the equitable jurisdiction. It
appeared only fair that there should be some additional
payment. He proposed by this bill that no county court
lodge who should be appointed after the present time should
ever receive more than 1,5001.
Mr. A YRTON thought it should be understood that if
bankruptcy jurisdiction should be hereafter added to the
Inuity jurisdiction there would be no claim to any additional
salary.
Mr. HENLEY expressed an apprehension that the gaols
which were already encumbered by the county court judges
would be still further encumbered under the equity jails-

dictioo.
The CHANCELLOR of the MCCHEQUER was of opt-
, sion that the judicial salaries of this country were more
{bas liberal In the present case the proposal was an equit-
able one, and a handsome remuneration was being granted
Ito the judge' for the whole of their time.
Sir C. O'LOGHLEN observed that the salaries of the
county_ court judges of Ireland amounted to only about
Iri..oom. a year.
I The motion was that) agreed to.
GREENWICH HOSPITAL BILL.
This bill was read • third time and passed.
FORTIFICATIONS (PROVISIONS FOR EXPENSES)
BILL.
This bill was road a third time and pawed.
MALT DUTY BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
HARBOUR TRANSFER BILL.
This bill was read a third time sad passed.
PIER AND HARBOUR_ ORDERS CONFIRMATION
__ _ _

(No. 2 and No. 3) BILLS.
Them bills were read a third time and palmed.
TRUSTS ADMINISTRATION (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This bill was read a third time sad passed.
RECORD OF TITLE (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
WICK AND AYR BURGHS ELECTION BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
FIRE BRIGADE (METROPOLIS) BILL.
The committee on this bill was resumed.
In clause 6, Sir M. FARQUHAR moved the following
proviso : " Provided that the means of extinguishing fires
afforded by the said ' London Fire Engine Establishment'
shell not be diminished within the respective districts within
which such means are at present applicable."
Mr. LEWIS supported it.
Mr. BARING was sorry that be could not aces to it.
There was not the least peeimity for it, and it might have
the effect of limiting the protection proposed to be created
by the bill.
It was then withdrawn.
Mr. AYRTON moved the following addition to clause
110,--"And no water company shall be liable to any penalty
or claim by reason of any interruption of the supply of
miter occasioned only by compliance with the provisions of
this motion."
Agreed to.
Ica clause 11.
lb. H. LEWIS moved to substitute 871. 101. for
351. ; the effect of which would be to reader the inhabitants
dthe metropolis liable for no more than the difference
between the sum of 25,0001. now contributed by the insu-
rance offices, plum 10,0001. to be contributed by the govern-
ment, and the cost of the new establishment. He sew no
mews why the offices should be let off what they now paid.
Sir M. FARQUELLR said that out of an estimated
vales ec 900 millions of property in the metropolis, only
one third was insured ; and it was monstrous to expect the
of to keep up a fire brigade for the benefit of those
who did not insure.
Mr. AYRTON said that whatever was levied upon the
came would in reality have to be paid by the public. He
soneidered that the more equitable way of levying the con-
tribution upon the companies would be to place it upon the
premium, and not upon the amount insured, as was now
proposed by the bill. By the former plan they would
pt at the owner' of the property stored in warehouses, and
the contribution would vary directly as the degree of risk.
Lord FERSiOY supported the amendment.
Mr. BARING said that if the offices chose to give up the
brigade, the legal liability would rest on the parishes. At
the same time, by levying a contribution on the offices they
were enabled to math property which would be
I protected, bet which would not pay. anything to the
rates. He hoped that the lowering of the duty
would have the effect of reaming the amount of property
uninsured, and that would diminish the difficulty of nide(
the ecistribttion ; because of course if the whole of the
property of the metropolis was immured nothing woad be
fairer thee to raise the riecemuy funds by a tax cm the
offices. As to the amendment itself, he must object to it,
beams the present scheme was a compromise which he
'Wad be lorry to disturb.
Tbe boom divided :
For the amendment l6
Apiesh‘t
The amendment vas therefore lost.
Mr. AYRTON then moved an amembosat for the per-

ilium Arr.)
Lord LYTTELTON said be thought the bfil would be d
benefit to the workiog classes. It was said that there
woeid be s greater stimulant to employ labour if the area of
rargeability were refined as at present to the pariah ; but
he thought that those artificial stimulacta to the employ-
meet of the poor were an evil rather than a good. He
roistered, however, that he supported this bill only se a
to=mi7
lularger measure. He should be glad if Lord
ab
. row that he bad got rid of him official duties,
ward tare his Wearer to the subject and propose some ,
.suers to carry eat his idea of the uniform rate all over ,
the country. He should be glad to are that, and a total
abolition of the law of settlement sod removal. The total
abolition of removal, withor the abolition of the law of
mittkessos, wag way years ago susgested by Hr. Coomb.
L hisopiree, for the borsht of the poor themselves, the
brier the area of chargeability the better. He mart say,
bowery, that this bell might hays beer brought is with a
little more coadderatton than bedroll siso en. Be Wined
that in some parishes, those which were called close
proshea, the rate would be doubled or trebled. Cori-

pose of making the premiums %Wei of the resit ht.:
send the basis for orlooletiog the owtsibution of the offlow ;
but it was negatived without • division.
An anseadment was proposed by Mr. Lanni is Glows
11, allowing neurones companies two years for =akin ,
up their accounts. It was opposed by Mr. Ayrton, and
the house was eleand for a &vistas, but none took plata ;
and the wassdmoot was agreed to.
Sir X. FARQUHAR proposed the following proviso—
" Provided that any inenrasos company, whieb, at tbe
time of the pawns of this set. contributes to the expenses
of the London fire-engine establishment, may, ion respect of
sli payments to be made by it, in any year up to the year
1870 inclusive, tot not alter wards, contribute after the yearly
rate of 351. in 1,000,0004 of the business in respect of which it
contributes to the said fire-engine establishment for the
present year, "wording to a return which has been fur-
sidled to the chairman of the Metropolitan Board of Works,
instead of in the manner in Ibis sot mentioned."
Mr. AYRTON opposed it. oit the ground that the return
referred to was not before the hours.
The committee divided—
For the proviso
Against it ll-67
The clause sa amended was then agreed to
On clause 16.
Mr. BLACKBURN moved to omit the words " ten
thousand pounds," with • Mew to make government pro-
perty
contribute at the same rate as other property in the
metropolis ; but this amendment was sot premed.
Os clause 11,
Mr. CLAY moved the following proviso " Provided
that the proportion of say such payment by the overseer of
any parish which shall be attributable to rates paid by soy
water company in rowed of their pipes or work*, may be
deducted by such water company out of the next pityroent
of rates demanded by such overseer, and shall be allowed
by him accordingly."
Mr. LEWIS opposed the motion, which was negatived
without a division.
Mr. AYRTON moved the following clause :—" Maintenance
of floating atom fire-engines on the River Thames by the
bard—The board shall maintain as many floating
steam fin-engines on the River Thames, within the limits
of the metropolis, os may by them be deemed necessary as
part of the mid fire brigade, mid the Conservators of the
River Thames *hall, on the let day of January in every
year, pay to the uid board the sluts of 3,0001., out of the
surplus funds in their bands, towards ths expense of keeping
up the said fire brigade.
Mr. BARING could not spot to the clause, for he found
that the waservators had no earplug, and, after some con-
venetian, it was also negatived.
Mr. AYRTON also moved a claws making persons to
whom assistance had been gives contribute towards the
maintenance of the fin brigade, which was negatived.
The rest of the bill was then agreed to.
HARWICH HARBOUR BILL.
This bill paned through committee.
CARRIERS ACT AMENDMENT.
This bill waged through committee.
ROADS AND BRIDGES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Lord ELCIIO asked paroniasion to insert amendments in
order that if in the next parliament any very green member
felt inclined to attempt road legislatioa, he might have the
bill in the form in which be (the noble lord) thought it was
most desirable that it should stand.
Afters few words from Mr. BLACKBURN, Mr. STIBLING,
the LORD-ADVOCATE, and other members,
The smenduionts were istroduosd.
The sitting was suspended at ten minutes to four.
The sitting was resumed at six o'clock.
MILITIA TRAINING.
Lord BURGHLEY asked the Under Secretary of State
for War whether then would be any objection to make pro.
vision is the next militia estimates for brigading regiments
for review during the last week of the annual training.
The Marquis of HARTINGTON regretted he was not
able to give any definite answer to the question of his noble
friend. The subject must be reserved for consideration
when the estimates of the year came to be prepared.
REPORT OF ARMY RECRUITING COMMITTEE.
Colonel NORTH asked the Under Secretary of State for
War if the report of the committee upon the recruiting of
the army would be laid upon the table of the house.
The Marquis of li A RTINGTON said that the report was
one which it was not desirable, on public grounds, to lay
upon the table of the house.
BRIGANDAGE IN ITALY.
Mr. 0. STANLEY asked the Under Secretary of State
for Foreign Affairs if any communications had takes place
between the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs asd the
Italian government with regard to the detention of an
English gentleman by the brigands.
Mr. LAY AM) said, in answer to the question of his boo.
friend, he had to state that the account which appeared in
the papers last week was as entire fable. There was not
the slightest foundation for the statement which had been
made. Her Majesty's government had been in constant
communication with the Italian government on the ques-
tion of the treatment of British subjects, and the Italian
government were doing all they could to procure the relearn
of Mr. Minns. He might state that the government had
that day received information that the camp of the brigands
had boon captured, and the chief himself, Ciardellm
arrested. He was not aware whether Mr. Moons had
yet been liberated or not.
THE CHINESE FLAG.
Mr. LIDDELL asked the Under Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs whether any communications had paned
between the Foreign-office sod her Majesty's representative
in China relative to the permissiou said to have been given
by the Chinese government to its subjects to own foreign
vessels and sail them under the Chinese flag; and whether,
with a view of affording protection to the mews and cargoes
of each vessels, her Majesty's government anticipated the
' necessity of any increase of our naval forces in Chinese
waters, or whether the protection of its flag would be left
exclusively to the Chinese government, and all risks attend-
ing such trade, coasting or otherwise, left to be bone by
such Chinese owners.
Mr. LA YARD said a rumour to the effect bad appeared
in the public papers, but no report on the subject had
reached her Majesty's government from the consul at
Shenghas.
EDUCATIONAL AND CHARITABLE INSTITUTIONS
BILL.
Mr. HADFIELD asked the hon. member for West Wor-
owtershire whether it was intended to proceed with the
Educational and Charitable Institutions Bill, introduced into
this house ea 31st March last.
Mr. LYGON said it was hi. intention to proceed with
this bill to-morrow. .

without promoting diuonteet amcmget the others ; and the
could not promote dissootont amongst large misses of th
people without imperilling the prosperity sod the stability
of the empire. (Hear, hear.) Now the position of the
Roman catholic' was one of grievous inequality considering
the relative position of the three gnat denominations--
catholic, presbyterian, and protestant—with respect to the
facilities enjoyed by them' for oldsieing a naivereity edu-
catiosi. As bad been stated by Sir John Gray, of
the Dublin corporation ; whilst, *yore ansopment bad
been made for the education of preshytecans, the esthetics,
whilst they were more than four millions and • half of the
population, bad no recognised university, and had no edu-
cational institutios of a high order of which they could
avail themselves. This deseriptioa was perfectly accurate,
and thoooliagly he was justified is raying their ;coition
wee one of grievous inequality. Let it not 14 sap-
that the catholic. wished to deprive their fellow.
imposuntrymee of any advantage they at present
enjoyed. (Hear.) They asked for equality for themselves
and for others; they asked the same equality which was en-
joyed by their fellow oonntrymeo sad their 00-religionisti in
Canada and America. He smarted that the Roman
esthetics had entertained a constant objectise to the proud
system of education in Ireland • and he said that the ex-
perience of the peat ought by Mils time to have convinced
every candid mind that those objections were insuperable
How could that be drown except by showiog that the catho-
lic@ had persistently refused to avail themselves of the pre-
sent system, and that the eddies system had consequently
failed to meet the requirements of the Irish people! (Cheers.)
He presumed there was no person foolish, or impolitic, or
wicked enough to ley to ado:dice you must overcome your
scruples or do without university education altogether.
Every oes knew that Trinity College was exclusively and
rigidly protestant, and no one was admitted mooed the
governing body who was not a member of the established
church, and it was not likely that the character of that
institution would be altered to meet the want of the catho-
lic& Au educational experiment woo tried in Ireland be
the establishment of the Queen's Colleges. Thou col-
leges were distinguished by two very remarkable pecoliari-
tiea. The first was that these institution, were to be kept
free from the bare suspicion of any bias or religious tendency
whatever, and the second was that persons of
every religious creed, or of no religion at all.
might Woo, to the governing bodies of these histitatione.
These extramdieary peculiarities had produced in the minds
of the people that feeling which caused the miserable failure
of thou colleges to which be would call the attention of the
house. He would first of all show the number of students
in each of those colleges, including Trinity College. In
Belfast the total number of students was 406 ; catholic',
22. In Cork, 263; catholic., 123. In Galway, 169;
catholic, 78. In Trinity College, about 1,000; catholic.
45. Total number of student+, 1,837, of whom only 268
were catholic,. (Hear, bear.) The audience formed only
14 per cont. of the total number of university at udenta,
whilst the number of catholic@ attending intermediate
schools of superior education fully equalled the number of
those of all other denominations attending the same class.
The total number attending the intermediate schools was
14,003, of whom more than 7,000 were catholic. Now
these facts most be taken se a proof that but for conscien-
tious objections the number of catholic' attending universi-
ties is Ireland would be infinitely greater than it was. Two
of the colleges, Cork and Galway, wore mere schools. as far
as arts were concerned ; and were, in fact, nothing better
than medical schools, for making third-rate doctors. Bel-
fast College was to all intents and purposes a denomina-
tional institution, the profaners being almost delusively
presbyterian, there being only one or two protestant,
amongst them. Now what was the remedy for this
state of things? Let a charter of incorporation be
granted, with a power of conferring degrees, to the
°dhoti° university in Dublin, which had already been
established by the catholic of Ireland, who had contributed
130,0001. towards its support. (Hear, hoar.) They did not
come to ask the state for a grant of public money. All
they asked was that the state should give them three
powers and that character, without which a university was
of no practical benefit to the community. This demand
was founded on justice and was supported by precedent.
The protestant* of Ireland sad England, the presbyterians
of Ireland and England, bad their chartered universities ;
and the catholic* of Canada and Australia had also their
chartered universities, endowed by the state and governed
by catholic bishops. (Hear, bear.) On what principle were
the catholic. of Ireland to be treated differently from all the
other subjects of the crown? (Hear, hear.) Were they
alone to be denied the right of university education?
Why were they to be told you must avail yourselves of the
university system which it is our pleasure to provide, or
you must do without university education altogether!
( Hear.) He would not weary the house by calling attention
to the course of studies or to the examination papers of the
catholic university, bat competent judges were of *aloe
that it was fully up to the recognised standard of univer-
sity education, and the heads of the establishment earnestly
desired that all its arrangements should be subjected to
the most searching scrutiny. (Hear, bear.) Amongst the
reforms were men well known to fame. The professor
of chemistry was Mr. Sullivan, who bad been appointed by
government to a similar position in the Museum of Irish
Industry and in the National Board of Education. The
protector of the medical department was Dr. Lyons, who
was selected by the government to go to Lisbon
on a mission of the greatest difficulty, and the
natural philosophy professor was Mr. Hennessy who assisted
the late Admiral Viterey in his scientific investigations. The
want of university education was felt in every grade of
catholic society. It was very rare to Hod any of the catho-
lies of Ireland in possession of a university degree, because
they bad no legally recognised university of which they
could avail themselves. (Hear, hear.) In the came of
justice, then, and as they respected the right" of conscience,
as they valued the principle of equal rights and privileges,
for all the subject' of the Queen, he asked them to remove
this educational disability from catholic', because they I
were not only injurious to catholic., but also I
a blot upon the reputation of Eogland, and
unworthy of the generous and enlightened spirit which ,
governed her policy at the meant day. (Hear, beer.) He
appealed to protestant@ for support, and be did this with
the more confidence from knowing bow he and his co•reli- '
&nista, if a similar appeal were made to them, would act
in the like circumstances- (Hoar, hear.) He appealed for
I support to her Majesty's government, who already had given
many proofs of the justice and generosity which governed
their direction of public affairs, and which be for one re-
cognised and was grateful for—and he asked them not to
stop short in their career, bet to persevere in doing justice
to all by establishing equal rights and privileges for every
denomination of her Majesty's subjects. (Cheers.)
Mr. BAGWELL said that his boo. friend had in a
speech of singular moderation—(hmar, hoar)—so entirely
exhausted the subject that it would not be necessary for
him to occupy much of the time of the house in seconding
hie proposition. He believed the late Sir Robert Peel had
never uttered a truer axiom than when he said Ireland was
the difficulty of English administration. Bot why
was Ireland a difficulty? Becalms the people of Ireland
bad always been refused those privileges which they ex-
pected and ought to have; and when given, they were
not given with a broad and liberal band, bat in a ogprdly
spirit, and only whop the exigences of party fmo-W them
from government. When, 20 years ago, the Queen's Col-
leges were founded, the government were distinctly told
that, not being raised OD a religious beds, they would fail
The late Sir B, Inglis called them a gigantic scheme of
godless education. Mr. Shen, Mr. O'Connell, and Lord
John Russell, who was never looked oo with a favourable
eye by catholic, were opposed to the scheme. He earnestly
entreatedlthe government, as they regarded the well being
and good wishes of the Irish people, as they regarded
their own position and strength as ministers of the
crown, that they would look with eyes of justice and
favour upon the Ter/ moderate proposition of his hon.
friend. (Hear, hear.)
Sir O.OREY said the subject of the motion which had
been broughdbefore the house by the bon. member for
Tretee in a very temperate and able speech was one that had
an important bearing on the highest class of education
in Ireland, and affected the interests of • large portion of
their fellow-subjects in that country ; and if it could be
shown that they were really subject to any positive disad-
vantage as compared with the rest of their fellow-subjects,
they were well entitled to have their case fairly and tem-
perately considered by the house. (Hear, bear.) The hoe.
gentleman confined his speech to university education, and
by university education he understood him to mean not
only that course of instruction in literature and science
which was generally included in a university course of
education, bat the result of that university education in
UNIVERSITY EDUCATION (IRELAND). obtaining academic degrees. What was the effect of an
The DON OOH LIE said be rou to make • motion of academic degree? It was not a mere nominal distinction, or
which he had given r
ued and in so doing be would begin a test that a man had attained a certain position in liters-
by @eying he believed Its terms were neomearily such Lure and science, although it was valuable in these respects,
se would arrest the attention of the house. He begged to but it conferred substantial advantage on a man with re-
move—" That an bumble addrem be presented to her gard to his profesdooal prospects in after life. (Hear.)
Majesty, representing to Dee Majesty that conscientious The academic :degree gave a man a substantial advantage
objection, to the present system of university education in who started in a profusion, &sin the case of the bar, where,
Ireland prevented a large number of her Majesty's subjects the degree of M. A. enabled him to be called two years
I
from enjoying the advantages of university education, and earlier than he otherwise could. Before the foundation of
praying that such steps may be taken u will remove this the Queen's Universit a denies could not be obtained in
grievance. 'He might also say he made this motion with Ireland except at Trinity Co , Dublin ; and although 1
the greatest oonfidence, because he believed that there never the Dublin University was very 'herd in he system of in-
was a period when legislation was go little fettered by mere 'Unction and in conferring degrees, so far as related to
party and sectarian influence aat present—(hear, head— religious tents—not requiring them with regard to lay de- '
and his experience as a member of parliament had led to pus at all—yet, as the hog. gentleman (the O'Donosbold
to believe that there was an anxiety on the part of the lees- had stated, Trinity College was an establishment essentially
lature and on the part of the British people to mske equal protestant, and connected with the established church ; and
laws throughout the British empire, and to place all classes we could hardly be surprised that comparatively few
of her Majesty's subjects on • footing of perfect equality as Roman catholic availed themselves of the opportu-
to their rights and privilege.. (Hear, bear.) If he were to pity afforded by Trinity College of obtaining an am-
succeed in showing, as be thought he could, that condign. damical degree. Under these circumstances the govern-
lions objections to the present "diem of university educe- mint of Sir Robert Peal proposed, in 1845, the foundation el ,
Queen's colleges in Ireland. The foundation of a naive', I
tion in Ireland prevented a large number of her Majesty's
subject' from availing themselves of the advantages
(I 4 psi. 'at'
e"eble or
e"firribnatitdegr.was sealearlwalTniOottliMoloDe antemempalat
'dimity educatioo, be thought it would be sdmitted east of that scheme,
tprodayvidathatitht Letaaillitertainmenedt ofths%
thHeetnelird nobedt repremerind thee heolieustratetthise great
Pia
non
say efunitvbeenneetyvemehoomeeld follow, provided
which boasted to hive guarded more scrupulously than say the colleges had talon ingliciest root to acquire a Derma-
sew, political liberty, Nowt. equality, and the sent character; and that wu indicated in the speech of Sir
mid toomplota "min ej tolerattes ; and that there was J. Graham in moving for leave to Introduce the bill. The
no omintry where the rights of coo/tithes were more care- object in establishing those colleges, in the importance
fully guarded. Looking therefore to the three great re- of which he (Sir G. Gerry) then and still emended. was that
Worm dinghies of protestants, esthetic& and preebyteriane, of affording method giving the best awake education to
he did not expect to he told—" You proved theexistenco the youth of Ireland, oripso-Uve altogether of distinction
of &Omuta' which if it wars proved to exist with regard to lof religious creed—so dielinotive religious teaching being
protestant, ot prothyterians we ehoold sorely redress, bat i admitted in the educational emus& but means
usasmnch as it affects only member, of the Roman catholic 1 being , provided for the voluntary religious in.
choroh- we have no remedy to offer you." He did mot I 'traction of the stedenis by of their Teepee
ahiTioba iaajaktoto was boned to ma w& to mahyte. tire denomination& He cooldetYheip thinking that
runs that 'Ala it refused to cowed* to catholic& He , that °bleat T" benevolent sad enlightened, Wag to bring
thought faissess required that pretatents, catkolies, and together young rase of differeot oriels, sepeaueed thereto-
presbyterians should participate equally in all the privileges 11.,0r5, Auderfausettif. , 7by Agora rolieselle switiesitits, into
whisk British subjects should enjoy. (Haar.) They could
mem 7 won, isthmus& lel students la the same college.
sea
maw
altaaaadiaaz, patoilagamp„ ow d thoarlodies, . esgaged in honourable emulation is the attainment of that

THE TRUCK ACT.
Sir R. CLIFTON asked the President of the Board of
Trade whether his attention had been directed to the hard-
ship inflicted upon working men by muter manufacturers
in their charge of rental upon machinery in reduction of
their earnings, and in contravention of the principle of the
Track Act ; and whether it was his intention to introduce
• bill for remedying that hardship.
Mr. GIBSON said be had not received any representations
with regard to the subject to which the question referred.
CASE OF LIEUTENANT JOHNSON.
Admiral WALCOTT begged to aak t
ie Foreign Secretary
whether any cuticula% hat been reoeed by the govern-
ment in reference to the arrest of Lieutenant Johnson,
R.N., an officer in command of • royal steam-ship on the
southout coast of Ametio►
Mr. LAYARD said that theme to which the hon. and
gallant member referred had occurred not in Brazil, but in
the Argentine republic at Buenos Ayres. It appeared that
Lieutenant Johnson wee returning home very late at night,
and heard screams issuing from a house. After endeavour-
ing to eater by the front door in vain, he discovered another
door open behind, and on entering found two men en-
gaged in mortal conflict—one endeavouring to take the life
of the other with a pistol. LientenantJohnson wrenched the
pistol out of the bands of the assailant, who escaped.
Several watchmen then entering the house, and seeing a man
desperately wounded and Lieut. Johnson standing over him
with a pistol in his hand, seized the latter, beat him
severely, and carried him off to prison, where he was con-
fined for many hours before it was known who be was.
The English consul (Mr. 'Thornton) Immediately lodged a
complaint with the minister, who admitted that a gross
moult had been committed, and promised to punish the
offenders. The result was that the watchmen were put
into prison to await their trial ; and the minister of do
Argentine republic in Louden had expreseed his regret for
the

troy then
lesowledge Adak meld be useful to them in life, mid fit and they sent their moos to it instead m esebolic 711
them for the performing of thee. duties required from the log them as they formerly did to gee 7". ~---
lßilEbtb.o6B of emetirme onestre. (Hear, bear.) In 1864 the The feat ma, the presbyterial; of Bellew- momSor7
. bed
government earned t
ote office the nineties announced by • hall in which their youth could be instructed is rum, hod,
the government of Sir Robert Peel, by founding a university subjects, and the Roman catholic. could do the east —the
,ct •""efteu•
by which degrees might beeonferred tudepesiently altogether at Galway and Cork. The presbyteriacs of the tiortj eserestrus
of Trinity College, Dublin, epos those who came up to the supplemented the endowment of the state, and they of ever
standard ce examination axed, and who bee pseud through • reaping their reward. (Hear, hear.) He was awes The Ob. ••:_nata P°i
course of instruction in any onetheQueee's college.. That the bead of the Roman catholic church in Desag_7 espeglee
being the state of the law, the mention was whether any 0111011—had 'oedemas) thesetoolleges. Now, Ines he meeneeted tb
were debarred by Peel sent Mr.L
large portion of her Majesty's subject, arcons and Mr. Major tensest moat'•
soy conscientious objections to the system of education par. to sears* for proper places in which to build them oxiF . for examlwit
sued either in Trinity College, Dublin, or in these college& they arrived at Armagh, sod two gentlemen appeared Xmontely rm,..`a"
11• V.
Now, however strong his own opinion might be in favour of tbem—me was the Primate of Ireland—the late bw,Z sod the dim
mixed education, and however much be might regret that and vegetated primate, Archbishop Beredsgra-7 wee ileresitted
there wee such decided opposition on the part of the llamas be urged that One college should be is t.
catholic hierarchy to that system, it was no use shutting and he scarcely left the room when emd
our eyes to the fact that there were persons who entertained wee introduced, and be, a Mon of liberal views. ara"`" hay of Or
a different opinion to that which be entertained—(hear) that one college should be founded in Armagh. gra men eePr
—sod that the Queen's colleges had not. been received with • bishop—Dr. Crolly—wss elected by the native ehm mop*. eoulet0,0,
that unival approval at all events which had beep hope& was much respected by those amoapt whom be lire 4 g the gniPimil
for and hem might say that some protestant. also regarded ;he gave as opinion in favour of those in mat , , animation
these establialuneuts with some aversion and distrust, sad house was sow celled upon to overthrow, for it wrvu4,ch tea bad? In whim
a
with a feeling which in many cum amounted to • con- I to disguise the fact that that was what was etemii y repreie
saeotions conviction that it was not the deny of this resolution. (Hear, hear.) It wasa fact that mih-ek MAW". meal
parents to seed their sons to those eolleges, be.' of the Roman catholic church in Ireland dieted to tat e lad te r•°'
cause they felt that there was not sufficient pa charter for a Roman catholic college; but if it were .. otl
born.
notes for the inculcation of those religious ninepin did the Roman catholic gentlemen suppose that they. wic (jr7O'Reilly)
which they regarded as the tree foundation of their future be allowed to send their ion to any other usi "moo his e
welfare, and therefore as the primary object of any minim I (Hear, bear.) Now Dr. Doyle, when he was named
1,.m , may deeth
of education.aliem
noatim. Though he believed this feeling to be the Home of Lords, stand that the bishops offaftgDEDATEI
taken and exaggerated he could not deny lie existence, nor I elected by the parish priests and coosecrated by tee reIyDCVO! undo
could he seek to impose his view upon those who conecno. bishop., and that the Pope did Dodds' but what new -• to famed a
tinily objected to it. He thought, however, that the hoe. formal—that he did not interfere with tin et mooch of
gentleman (the O'Donoghne) bad greatly exaggerated the what had happened since? Dr. Cullen, the might 1
failure, as he termed it, of the Queue's colleges—(bear, of that church, bad not received a mingle earliest P
bear)—and he understood that in two of them there were a parish priests. The Pope bad set aside the of ,eboald fur
large number of students of different creed. living together don in his ease; and this was the man Ira- it to which
in harmony, and reclining to that extent the intentions of • the colleges which Dr. Orally sad Archie.
the government. There was • distinction to be drawn upon I approved of. (Hear, hear.) The house et
this subject, es it afforded the highest class of education, 1 that commission were issued to
and as it affected the popular education conducted in the I the Universities of Cambridge, Oxford,
national schools. The edocation given in the national I and many improvement, badad taken
schools was of an excellent character, but provided them in consequence. When Mr.
there was any conscientious objection on the part of presented Cork in that house he anted that
• parent to send a child to those schools there of Dublin had not done enough, and be sou
were other schools to which he could send him, sad mere substantial honours and degrees should
be and the boy from the Inatomel school entered upon their graduates. Now though all graduates in "
course in life upon terms of perfect educational equality. mutt not nista fellowships or belong'
That was sot so, however, with regard to the higher clue body, yet they could vote at elections, ant
of education. A student educated at the Roman catholic; established foundation scholarships, which a,
university was placed at this deadventage, that he could way things, and which were open to all; acid .
not obtain a degree in Ireland because be had Dot studied when be was Secretary for Inked established
at one or other el the colleges he (Sir G. Grey) referred to, called demi-fellowships, which were worth it
and to that extent, therefore, the government thought towable for seven years, and several Rerun
there was a reasonable ground for compluat, which they gentlemen bad obtained them substantial honours.
were willing to endeavour to remedy. (Hear, bear.) Is regarded their profenonhips, they were -eats.
England, some years ago, a degree could only be obtained and in addition to these there were
through the medium of our two great univenities. open, and also several medical Bobo,
vanity College, Leiden, was then enteblisbed, followed by the withstanding the foundation cf the three
King's College. They were founded nem diametrically oppo. colleges Roman catholic gentlemen entered the g
site principles—the former giving no direct religious instrua in the same proportion as they formerly did;
Lion, aod the latter being in close connection with the (stab- they to be demonoced for me doing by those who
limbed March, and giving religious instruction according to notieced the colleges, end who wished to put an
its doctrines. The University of Loodon comprised both mixed education in Ireland? (Hoer, beer.) Be
those colleges, and gave degrees to students of each. But the interests of the Roman catholic. -"melees
it had bean enabled to go even beyond that point—schools these, what were gelled, liberal and enlig
end colleges had been affiliated to the London University, The University of Dublin did not desire to
and degrees were given to pupils of those schools coming or from the Roans catholic. But the bane
to the standard of examination ; and it bad gone further to support this mob:aim upon the grand the
still, and offered to receive as candidate' for its degrees system of education is Ireland interfered wi
students not coming from any school, provided they had scruples. Re did not believe that it did.
acquired that knowledge which met the standard by which no test of any sort applied to the Rama
candidates for degrees were ceased. Ix England there was, and there was DO restriction of any eon knows,
in fact, a system of perfect equality as reopened degrees. tended, as Oben had done, that it would he
It bad been in operation for some time' sod the Roman ca. want* the youth of Inked from the cradle to
tholice here had largely availed themselves of it, I sad this moveassat was far the purple of
in order to obtain degrees from the Loudon that object. He deeded that it was • snout
University. Thus that wail done indirectly which I thing, as had bass ammted by Dr, Dam.
the bon. gentleman (The O'Donogline) wished to Roman catholic youths al the country to Dot*
be done directly in Ireland. He (Sir G. Grey) wished to' say, when they wee* meet and mix lip with
state, on the part of the government, that they saw so pronstant religion* their daily intercourse.
reason why the principle being thus conceded hare. our They had already as good profeaeors as the,
Roman catholic fellow-subjects in Ireland should not be able in Trinity College, and that being the case ti
to obtain the advantage which their ooreligionista possessed no object but to perpetuate the separation a the,
in England. The only question was as to the mode In Ireland. He complained of the statement of
which the object was to be attained. There was great oh- gentleman as iedegnite, and in conclusion wank,
jectioe to the proposal of the boo. gentleman to give a goverment that they had already, entered their
charter of incorporation, with the power of granting degrees the acession of the motion of his right hoc. ft/I-
to the Roman Catholic University of Ireland. There were bee for Osmbridge Usivenity, against sei.
protestant. as well as Roman catholics, who alleged Mr. MONSELL said he had never lists.
that they had conscientious objections to the system with more perfect astonishment th,,, on the
of education pursued in the Queen's colleges and Man, lie had often heard the right hon. g
therefore the proposal of the bon. gentlemen IMMO mixed education, sod now he opposed s
would not relieve the inconvenience felt
which degrees were granted, they ran the risk of having boby
n. gentleman had rebind, and they would
alliunbudlioucuticu, whichtu
that dam Then again, if they multiplied the bodies enathemble
Take
eoclhicse toungiieveccesiteay tobf
different standards by which candidates were to be tested, trawls:roma, gram must be a member of ter
and the degree would thus lose its value. (Hear, bear.) En sod a great number of them were -
The hon. geotleana was mistaken is believing that there ...ea. What the right hon. gentleman h.
was any distinct presbyterial university in Ireland in which
students of that persuasion could obtain degrees. He thought their children to that university. How could the
the best mode of attaining the object which the hon. gentle. "'mixed education was that catholic parents
gentleman under such circumstances presume te g
mall bad in view would be to enlarge the powers of the He asked, would the right hon. gentleman vote
Quote's University in Ireland by an amendment of the I Ling Roman catholic. into the governing body ot
charter, so as to remove the restriction which now prevented
the authorities from eonferring degrees upon any but those Mr. WHITESIDE—Certaioly not; it would be
who had passed through me of the Queen . colleges, and city of Dublin ?
tion of its constitution.
thus adopt the system of the London University, which Mr. MON SELL—He had expected that •Deirdr,
had proved no satisfactory. The particular method of ac- weed on to the real question, which was, who
complishing this object required consideration, but he menial working of our system of granting
hoped that the hon. gentleman would be satisfied with this
degrees. The Wt census showed that of the
promise on his part that the government would devote classes there were in Ireland, Rem.. rath,
their best attention to the matter, with a view to donee testae* 5,799 ; preebyterians, 1,200 ; and is
means for the removal of the grievances of which the him. and muerte receiving superior education
gentleman bad complained. (Hee& bear.) Roman catholic., 6,262 ; protestant& 5,261 ;
Mr. WHITESIDE said he 'greed with the right hon. 749. Bat when they came to the numbers .
gentleman that the question was one of very great import• city degrees they found only 25 or 30 Roman cat
mace, and it deserved to be rightly understood, so that they of • population of four and a halt
might have a clear perception of the policy about to be over, did not indicate indifference on the part s
inaugurated by her Majesty's government. He concurred catholic. to the education of their children, for
with the boo. gentleman (The O'llonighue) that nothing that in school. of • superior cleat the proportion
could be more interesting to the parliament of a free eatholics above the age of 15 was 42 per out., of
country than the education of those who afterwards might blished church 30 per cent., and of presbyt-
be called upon to direct the councils and frame the laws of cent. He thought the inference was that if
their country g and he also agreed that education did not be obtained without any violation of asinine
consist in readier books, but in that description of instate- time would be about the same. The obj
tion which would strengthen the faculties, liberalise the blishiera the Queen's colleges was, first, b.
mind. and brief it into harmony with the institutions of the education of the Roman catholic youth out
country. The original motion of the hon. gentlemen for bands of the priests ; and secondly, to
granting a charter to the Roman Catholic University was intellectual standard ;but what had been the
plain and intelligible, but when he mime to the present eight per cent. of the Roman catholic yout
motion be came to the conclusion that it was substituted for is schools under the management of prints,
the purpose of enabling some minister of the crown to make professor of the Queen's colleges, imolndi
a vague and indefinite speech, not defining anything precise Kane end several members of the sees* act
or oaten, but which might be useful on the present occasion. sons to the schools of the Jesuits to be Mu'
(Laughter, and "hear, hear.") It he were to ben.) Those hoe. gentlemen who spoke so loudly is..
choose between the indefinite conception of the of mixed eduatios took very good care to bare
right boo. baronet, and the direct proposal of the and exclusive education for their own children.
charter, he would decide for the charter, for rayons which bear.) Aad they sent them to these school' alttoeet t
he would explato. The hon. gentleman said that objections education to be obtained there was by no mean eel.
were entertained to the present system of university edam- that given in the great English schools. Be es I
ties in 'relied by a large number of her Majesty's formed that in many the study of Greek we it •
jests. That must be by a large number of bee Majesty's lowest ebb, and that Latin composition, ski* •
subjects who desired to enter and were fit to enter so much cultivated in the English abode •
the university. Now • mistake might be committed nearly as much neglected. Even mathematic., for el*
upon this subject. A book had been published the Irish had such a remarkable capacity, wu not
celled an seal/sin of the last mire& which the mark of the English schools. It seemed. theaml
showed that whereas the majority of the moos of peasant. that hitherto the Qneen's oollegee bad justified Lad Rt
and small farmers was largely on the aide of the Rama sell's prophecy, and had been not only null bat soda
catholic, the majority of the other deems was equally in He denied that the proposal of hie right hoe. kid
favour of protestant& In the profession of the law the indefinite, for he was following the example whin MI 1
protestant' were three to nee Roman catholic ; and so in calved the magma of the catholic clergy in Belem,
other professions, and among the manufacturers Pranoe, and in Austria. His right hon. friend aid, lei
and membanta of Ireland, and even amongst the have a common asininity for the granting of degree
skilled artisans of Belfast. Now the great body exclusive one would middy the utopias of Rona
of the peasantry . were provided fur_ bY that ay.' ]fm, bat it would not give the stimulus of competitor.
tem of mixed education from which they sever Wald feat his right how. mead was merely establinrn
persuade the right hon. gentleman or his colleague to de. system which already prevailed in most of the
part Why should they have another naiversity ? There countries of Europe.
were the three Queen's 0011ettee, so called, and the waiver- .
Mr. ruchrhandy thought that the rumen* •
sity to which they were attached ; there was the college of taken a vary extraordinary enures
*smooth, and there was the univenity which he hid the acknowledged the truth of the allegations upon
honour to represent.ssat. If they looked back a little, they sad that a large portion of the poop'. of Wiwi as
would perfectly understand the real object of the motion. tined acesoientious objections to the wenn Me°
He did not complain of it in the ; beady wished it to be miramity educationeducationin that country. a feet Min
clearly understood what it woe that they were about to do, pod previouslypreviously(hawk but they rammed as a tem*
What he understood was that the Howe of Coalman was the catholic university of Ireland shield have the peek
thie the
this übjed. 7
asked to reverse the policy adopted by Sir B. Peel and the mad* It, modem, to the Queen's Dimwit, to be
policy of the last 30 yeah. He was once liked by Sir mimed for depose. That was a proposal wheels mu
James Graham whether ha had a dein to alter the charter dad farem with the Roman catholic. of
of incorporation for the University of Dublin, and he ea n had made overand over DO
diedtat
htheathadhe dideoinobteeratendoe
antoyitisiz
„death% seweectchartericool,
Lela theed
tedimmarwayscembelliorojeciiietedhupeln
thc.r view
Derby. It would be well for the home to mderstead the tlw
nature of this grievants, sod he would address himself to petitiima,:d house, nothingwould sally
the Roman catholic* members in particular. He wished to else
maid to be denominational ; for teat
The compromise offered by the government malt
trace out for them how this question stood, sad what kw& roman entire failure. If they desired to eat
would be the result of the inauguration rata new policy. of the Irish they most plies del!
When the University of Dublin was opened to nonconfor. the ems firithig as otherdenominatime in regard 10
Watt and to Roman catholic, there was a panegyric pro• city edueedeu.
nounced upon it by the late Mr. Grattan. The /ate Sir
that university, It was inked how the Roman catholic
gFcedoweeelltedßmietoLeandble other
ee genoetytlmmeoenoefroemicecthiethcoe
oupentryeieghadot
wanwholmVreathnotDpolairUNlCKLlet
foc7cdnornitchh.dideteelitstedirt:th:tiwicotht:igietvhQueenel%.
sleep were to be educated, and it was proposed to establish 24 °I a lamaisaalY high, good, and Practleal el
burg': Roiumawhniuheathmuolincuilaitthly mtetruliginuuDsuhuublildandbudneduwestud'up 1•84/seariPliel "abalaPaaLtioanDa.lioatn tietbellad:l2c steadily the leading
.711 s P
petition to the Irish parliament, which was presented •Isyed ---"
and „31-7,.1..1Y.1the id to
Ms. Grattan in 1795, and in which were pointed out objets 11.2.%__'""""•, who bid the dvantap of it far theosa
to Ream esthetics being educated apart from the •
mas of gentlensen of other religious, and the petitimera life which the, Wife digitised to all. With en---pe
stated that there could be no reel education unless lateltai°a„„;waL„lllaaganaaahrar of a bethoughtD'DMlKC' ta"
t•
lit were freed from all external induces and restraint, and •"'a aaws4oll
thee declared that it would be a great reiefortune toti the granting
sad Asa
rate the youth of the country late two elsesse—om to be dace
educated in one_ college end the other in mama, The by the Home Secretary met the conscientious .
parliament of Ireland 'refuel, upon that wow. he which bad bun urW, and plead Roman catholic. a
establish Maimed' as as exelemin emnioary, eel *ma to diPlemee end degrees in the same tooting
rod e!„.
dyoBegreeselestheisywithcdoPdabecomeecewtourebeerudaiubledalaseceiviatedandlt.aechrlieiat
ertakairagasaid allaxame.Whe I Whilifriend,ittewaswisredillitt.tno"be tuld6u eresuPPutocircttthhautriunaidid ooi
ue
was ' la the faults which bad been toned with the syetaii:i
Sir R. Peel did, and he admired his
greet
for
clod
college
epee
the
vett rats,ommementau
moth, eaticee=thefeeteen's colleges, of which he
•
interested in the education am& a body. For mom peon Mr. O'REILLY add,
held
Raman catholic be
past there had been further berpromments made In the Uni. threwEbreekthe world held that not oell
it ..,nairfte
'amity of Dublin, am did sot believe that Nwthea•ths dwmg°
•,tuatie°,.._ .
rot
would be for the benefit et the Room catbcdici tbeinselven ."'•• education
that their some should be prevented frem Weeding at that Pee use, te• men re Frame,. formally dealer the
university..... founding the three seerni=s c 4 Bid. • that, whilst instruction should be deocuittaticed, .
CusipThi'leouuofopert:rupoinN' Cork, and
u waaSirundLerstarll
to
say u"thatPriathe.
anomiegTbernit°lllFaletammateititwodoswitakeedYrtid ss 1
to :Ihtetheeibuiedueceiiffinicall"tiimmObi.
preemb.yteriasswßrizein ikamirtolottua!lthat t.o3insa 1:1Z;
that
dia. Iby Preksamil.aa usineitlywbo battbobiebllthmainretlia
tiesticia had POWS tip as to tern* reunite in the collies ge inadearheaseemls IllejaahmaillaiDiegeo thabau-Tmeergavaitylt
of Belted, as isemparel with Galway and Cork but it wee Ds himself had graduated la the University of has'
m
peplu, " the aharD•wiatad ilr° nor bed es" that he —hoped that he sad other catholic memo if
*1
rOll4O wee the vgrl thing while they weekrie meek would not he idlest le Kbegalley le Wilt

..Atr7
fact,

.011
Starr

0013C41
• of

me
• dome
A they war'

KU il

the more
Rome,
throe Iv

.fb4

they
with; as far
favour up
Solic
state
'ow,
it Ir
be
right
he could
Nuppoee
•• $O.
'MC'

, ergt
so fel
It we,
ly we
be vil

hea
Tr
liberal
iadii

relig
td fault

A be
make •

At. TIN
estkolia
kla the

[am
shoinasiaso
aided Oa
to Do mums
by the s
ssystionog
'a college
the Quo
beep
aftsams
apes
nasat ths
1846, sal
oar Room
IMlrsdl
that
had ea
vassal
subject, LI
os of
sly Roos
sotharll
oonnadic
authorial
reauntun

woe C
bad bac

aadgalia
!libido that

---
Quote
k. aad
Mar sad

[ &xi
I nods
ids rig
older a g•
of Ilse
to
la 'bid' i
lonaostee
he migh
gelt• oi
*ad it
tit
be s• a
ati les IN

_

hem. h
:v: o
taw po
hos. f
ty
low of
w
to
• H,
hed
soothe
for
15 et
%Hog w
It on

mast
1
Nod/
111
.4117,1
POPS
I prop
Myr I
__.

slautliAvidilreta:act..ithabi.lebeiliwo:idoe:::Pltrnmdttitalgesisii°l:7"l7e.
,sudatie7l. ewbob.."7"jiafte7iiieth.oirthiiii:Thidtl'
deg but what wig- Zje . worr
man who had . t which
to Moak. • ked ww
Oxford. gad b, sad had 1
61d taken plea be breget jot''
Len Mr. rip, tk
and h• legated tisk . bed
iree, should he ease h IMP Iliad o wl
lustre in Trisity • this goo
✓ belong to the gbh our
Wang, and then tad emit a Bowe i
iapiPBw; eintshwieblohirbldtwhailwri'"., eldsadrits""'lmilladawd_.466ba.l:
Den to all; wad sebc.'
several Boma • • on Ion"
ateatial Iteacers..This eissetioe of
Ike, were overly ag eau relegmerth roc
re were thirty . • ezerelesd
tica scholarships. bePoNitt
cf the three Qum' der gas nay it
nen eoterad the mired e(icels. /NH"
y formerly did; sad Mead eonoss
ag by Agee who had Mew thapi
wished to put an salts the IMO°
leer, beer.) Be woks '• te gersT oat nn'
Molex themselves to are world
god enlightened gen:, of reglaed
desire to with • • • a.. which
I the bongs was • • -• aggnanni°
the ground tb" 14.1.2 . casNcsuc
interfered with • deb. boo. me
that it did. Thin . to est u
to the ROMA% ) bog. orr
soy sort Mows.. Bo • rem Maur
bat it would be meg bee they wet'
roan the cradle to the •• . mdecoecy
pupae of axes. ' were at all m
WY e wrong and the gage
by to *lnd • down .1-4
'MAU, to Dula 1.7 the more hai
red mix up with theft el . be topside el
y intaroeurse. law, tar
' _ the more
demon as theould ~. Rome,
cog the ease they Sand ibeille
separation at thereat , gte
e statement of dangle .
conclusion would Mai deep
ady mitered their pm* het they
is right hon. fried ths ' w they
gamut sectaries ad • • •••
wleh ae fax ,
d never listened tea with favour up
yet than on the peeved . carbolic
Is right hon. petters bad state
low he *Probed • Peon , • Now, t
who education to Mir nn.. •
. but it Is
f Dublin, to which the : for if he
I, and they would 611.4 rd hit right
member of the shoal . he cooid
if them were Prolsaul es to suppose
. gentleman looked spa • mideereregoal
stholio parents should . . y, -*• moo
ly. How could the den Ma friend
Mures presume to give • tioo,
on. gentleman vote fee ; , tosoc
governing body of Me 0 d 1,, Rem
• dild boo. mei
ily not; it would be s be mould gil
g Re
21:4414a
~_,that t bon. gent!
ion, weirs wee, whet re 1,„„i0,, of rhi
Intern of Panting ' eppeered t
wed that of the • es whole ant
Romeo cathrlice, •3Z , not in fe
no, 1,200 ; and in . bat mu
parlor education then • ,• .ly we
octants, 5,361: • tight to be VI
the numbers taking, Meer, bee
25 or 30 Roman cathera that Tel
a half millions. The, 'my liberal
nrence on the part el . u an iodic
I their children, for he • t religion
clue the proportion of ' • mom thing
was 42 per cwt., of the the walls a
1., and of presbyterbas Z ere con mule
once was that if dates ' gag Melt
lesion of cousciesos the • • system
e
aniii:gclifgeooowli?::elYyof,:s°ltro WoullaNtbb. d isigedi°art.makluwfibls
i
tat had been the result Snot mamba
an catholic youth were • whisk the
ement of prints. sad . dii
colleges, iecluding Ear • ' to eOh
of the sees* actually Nit by the
fasciae to be eduestM. ai • re cense.
in who spoke so loudly iR fa. enthee,
• •