The Express.
London, England, 1849-06-13 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY. EVENING, JUNE 13, 1849.

pick crime he was put into a cell 4 feet by 6, with no diet
Vut bread and water, and nothing to lie upon but au boa
bedstead ?
Sir 0. GREY sail that several communications had been
revived from Mr. Jones, but cot recently, and as the hon.
gentleman had sat given him notice of the question it was
iielomible for him to tax his memory with the minute de-
tail wire* they might have contained. In every instance
they were referred to the visiting justices.
Mr. O'CONNOR said be would repeat his question on
Friday next, and refer particularly to letters of the 7th and
21st of May.
THE INTERVENTION IN ROME.
Mr. HUME asked the noble So cretary for Foreign
Affairs whether he had any objection to lay before the
house the document referred to by him in his answer the
day before as having been forwarded to Lord Normanby re-
specting the course which her Majesti's government in-
tended to take relative to tl e proceedings o the French in
Rome, in order that the house might be ab'e to judo* it we
were implicated in those iufom tus pracee diogs 1
Lord PALMERSTON (who was all but inaudible) was
ander-tood to say that there was no objection to the produc-
tion of that communication.
Mr. HUME—Or any other document which would show
whether the Eng.ith government was cr was nut implicated.
(Order, order.)
AUSTRIAN OCCUPATION IN TUSCANY AND

ROME.
Mr. MI LNES requested to know whether the noble lord
could Worm the house and the country of the terms of oc-
cupy ion of Central Italy by the troops of the Emperor of
Au'tri,, and whether the acts of that sovereign were to be
considered the acts of an indept ndent and aggressive vwer,
or the acts only of the sovereign of those stale. performed by
the troops of another power called in at kis request.
Lord PALMERSTON said that first, with regard to the
OW of Tuscany, the Austrian g•neroment some time
ago, through the Aus'itan minister at this court, communi
cried to lisp Majesty's government the opinion that in virtue
of existing tresses the Austrian government having, u thy
conceived, a rev. reionary int,rest is the Grand Duchy of
Tuscany, stood in the situation of having a right to interft re
in the aff.irs of Tuscany in a manner its which they had not
a right to interfere in other countries with which they were
not a t connected. When the Austrian interference first toot
place it was et ported to her Maj est) 'a government that the en-
trance of the Anus ion tr lops into Tuscany was not only un-
solicited by bat against the consent of the Grand Duke, but
subsequent inforiaation negatived that impression Bad led
them to believe that the entrance of the Austrian troops was
in accordance with the wishes end in compliance with the
✓equ st of the Grand Duke. Respecting the entrance of the
Austrian troop. into the Roman states, he yesterday stated
that the penal government had made application to the four
catholic p twers—Ae.stria, France, Spain, and Naples—for
evils mititary assistance, wi h a view to re.esublish the
authority if the Pope ; and the entrance of the Amer:an
troop into the Roman terrisory was is compliance with that
appliestimi from he Pope to the Eosin roe of Aurria.
TRI HUDSON'S BAY COMPANY.

Mr. CHRISTY asked ii any negotintiona bad taken piece
or were now pending relative to the claims of the Hudson's
Bay Company to compensation arniogout of acy treati.s be-
tween this country and the U. ited States ; the nature and
amount of such claims, and whether any correspondence had
rowed either between her Majesty's government and the
Hudson's Bay Company or with the government of the
United States on this sulvet.
Lord PALMERSTON said that in the mune of last year
the Hudson's Bay Company applied to her Majesty's eove rue
meat for countenance teed as :stance in the negotiations they
wished to open with the Ueited States for the cession of
their pr eperty to the south of the nos boundary line, in
puesuance of the stipulations of the treaty respecting the
Oregon territory. That assistance was granted, but as the
negotiations between the company area the American go-
vernment, now going on, were cot conducted through the
organs of the Engli It government, he could not state exactly
in what position those negotiations now stood.
THE ARCTIC EXPEDITION.
Lord PALMERSTON brought up the despatch, by com-
mand of her Majesty, which had been moved for in that
house, giving au account of the part which had been taken
by the Unite,' States in reference to the Franklin expedition,
and moved that it be printed.
Sir R. INOLIS wee desirous of availing himself of the
occasion to call the attention of the house to the con-
duct of the government of the United States in
preparing an expedition to the Arctic Sees with the
object for which her etsjestj's gee. rnment had already
sent forth three expeditions from this country in one
year, namely, to discover and relieve Sir John Franklin and
the ships and Crews under his command. But net content
with that, we had this very year passed a vote iu supply for
the same purpose. He was sure that every one must rejoice
at the coarse adopted by the United State a in furtherance
of that chject. (It ar, hear.) One of the m est
eloquent letters ever addressed by man or w-man to either
man er woman had been wrier n by Lady Franklin on behalf
of herself and child, to the President of tee United States,
asking hie assistance ; and the answer of the President did
equal honour to his head and heart, sod he was now sendiug
forth two expeditions, one to Behring's Straits, the other to
Davis's 8 rafts.
Lard PALMERSTON was sure the house would show
its appreciation of the few remarks which had fallen from
the lion. m. mber, by fully ceineding in the feelings he
hail expressed el' the generous conduct el the American and
Russian goverontents, in sending out vessels to search for
those enterprising navigators who heel gene from this
country to the Arctic Seas. These expeditions were some of
the most honoeroble that a maritime nation could under-
take, and stood sill more pr minently before the world on
account of their generosity than the one which this country
originated.
Mr. DISRAELI &so eulogised the letter of Lady Frank-
lin, and the conduct of the American President. He was
sure that such incidents would, in the opinion of that house
and the country, be more calculated to create a good under-
standing and a f at. rnity of feeling between different
nations, than any of those fantasies and political nostrums
now iu circulation.
The motion was then agreed to, and the papers were
ordered to be printed.
INTERNATIONAL ARBITRATION.
Mr. COBDEN, after presenting the petitions above
named, spoke as follows :—" Sir.—t do net remember rising
to address the hones on any occasion when I felt more de.
sir us to be indulged with their attention; beeanse, Tepee-
sentieg as I do a very numerous body out of this house, who
take a deep interest in tibia queetiun, I mu-t say I feel regret
on their account, as well as for the cause I have in hand,
that there should be so much misapprehension in the ?reuse
in reference to this subject. What h.s just fallen from the
hon. member for Bucks is a proof that the re must be some
misapprehension ; for he would not have presumed to sneer
at a moti en before he bad beard it made, unless be had m-
ewls:ad that there was something so unreasonable and
preposterous about it that it ought to be con-
demned before it was heard. (Hear, bear.) I have
heard that hon. gentleman indulge in a sneer before on
many eiceasions ; but the sa have been ex post facto sneers.
I have never until now heard him sneer at a ma ter by ant:-
death:3n. He has grounded that sneer on an observation
drawn forth by a subject which was calculated above all
others to move the milk of human kindness in oar bosuns.
(Hear, hear.) How it was possible for an hon. member, in
reference to the answer returned by the American President
to Lady Franklin's letter, to indulge in a sneer of that kind,
I cannot understand; unless it be that the ben. gentleman
is incapable of anything but sneering. (Hear, hear) I ac-
cept thou acts of the American and Russian governments as
proofs that we live in altered time.. (Heft, hear.) As the
right bon. member for the University of Oxford has well
observed, at no former period of the ',who's history has
there been an instance of foreign peanuts Ws sending out,
at a great tepees-, to seek for adventurers unconnected with
their own community. Accepting this as a proof that
we live in different times from those that are pest,
I think there is notbiog unreasonable in our seeking to
take another step towards emolide•ieg the peace of nations,
and securing us minst the recurrence of the greatest cala-
mity that con afflict mankind. (Hear hear.) I stand here
the humble tepresentative of two distinct classes, both of
some importnece in the community. In the first place, I re.
present on this occasion, and for this specific moron 'alone,
that influential body of Christians who repudiate the right of
resorting to war in any case, whether offensive or defensive.
(Hear, hear.) I also represent that numerous portion of the
middle classes of this country, with the great bulk of the
working classes, who have an abhorrence of war greater than
at any former period of our history—(hear, hear), and who
desire that we should take some precautions, and if possible
obtain some guarantees, spa net the recurrence of war in
future. Those two classes have found a mouton ground—
and I r knee atit,—on which they carnotite whhout compro-
mising their principles on one side or the other. It Is not neces-
sary that any one in this house or out of it who accedes to this
motion should be of opinion that we are not
.justified so ,
Christians, under any circumstances, in resorting to war,
even in self-defence. It is only necessary that you
should be agreed that war is a great calamity which
it is desirable we should avoid if possible. (Hear,
hear.) It you feel that the plan previewed is cal-
culated to attain the object sought, eon may vote for it
without comproo.ising yourselves on the extreme principle
of defensive war. (Hear, hear.) For what do I suppose?
I assume that every one in this house would only sane:ten
war, in case it was imperatively demanded on oar part, in
defence of our honour or our just interest,. I take it that
every one here would repudiate war, unless it were eslled
for by such motives. I mums, moreover, that there is not
a man in this house who would not repudiate war, if those
object'—the just interests and honour of the country—could '
be preserved by any other means. My object is to see if we can-
not de&se mute means which shall eneble us to dispense with
war altogether; and my plan is timely and solely that we
should retort to that mode of settling disputes in cam-
amities which individuals resort to in private life. I only
want to extend it one step thriller, to carry out in another
instance the principle which you &cornier In a thounand
other cases—thet the intercourse between comtnanities is
nothing more than the intercourse of individuals in the
,atgrestiee. I want to know why there may not he an sue.-
meet between this country end France, or between this
000t.try owd America, by whi h the nations should respec-
tively bind themselves in case of any misunderstanding
arising which could not b- settled by mutual ftereeentatien
Or diplomacy, to refer the dispute to he decision of arbitra-
tors. By arbitrators I do not mean nee smelly crowned
hen's or neutral states ; therigh we have exemples where
dispu'es heave been referred to crowned heeds, and where
their arbitrament h.as been eminently suftteoful.
Tim* is a case where the U.:ited States and
France referred a disj ate to Engl end ; a case in
whelk England and the Unitsd Set:es referred a
di-pette to Rusala—o, o in which the United States and
Kalov t:f.ired a quell m to Fruits's, and onto in which the

United States and England referred a ease to the x; ~,,
the Netherlands. These Mel were al eminently ea.:em—
ir one failed in immediate object, there is - '.u• l-----
in which a war his followed from such a reference. 170 --ae,
hear.) But Ido not confine myselt to the plan of refern''
disputes to neutral powers. I see more and more the di‘
culty of two independent states like England and Prams
doing so, as one might prefer a republic for the wheeze,:
and the other a monarchy. I should prefer to as 1 these
disputes referred to commusion• re or plenipotenti el
--ae
arbitrators', appointed from or.e country, to meet men ae--
pointed from another eenntry, to inquire into then(re,`
and agree upon it; or, if they cannot do so, to havel the'
power of calling in an umpire, as is dime in ell erbe re;
Tao is very differ nt from the principle y"atiaa.,-
adopt. I watt you to give these men the oauteeeel -
power to settle quarrels when they come before then. ..A-.."
the r • is an essential difference between that plan 8,4 `the
plan you sow meet to. (Hear.) I want to shoe that I p--
peactical on this ocusien, by showing that all I propose tea;
has been done on =Tent occasions before. In 1794 we bee
a treaty with America, tor oompneeation for c rue tein Brig
claims on the American government. Those claims ware
referred to four commissioner+, two appointed on each aids,
with the pros ion that they should elect unanimously an wet:
tutor: in cast they could not agree in the choice of an eitt.
trator, it was provided that the representatives re mete
country, should put the came. of certain Beet:gen itee se
urn, ore to be drawn out by lot; and this arbitrator eng
the four commissioners decided by a majority el
the cases brought before them. Again, fa- gas
treaty of 1814 with the United Settee, pr. seinen wee awes
for unbolt must important matters precisely in the way we
now propose. Provision was made for running the =ender!
between the United Statue sod Canada, fee some thowsea
of miles; also foe defining the right re certain Wads lyiai
on the coast ; and for running the boundary betwees lieu
and New Brunswick. The plan was this: Each canny
named a commissioner; the commissioners wer to camely
to agree on these disputed points; and the matters oa Wee
they ctend not agree were niece d to some neutral rap,
All the matters referred te them—and most importuner,
were—were arranged by mutual conference and mutual ca.
cession., except the question of the Maine boundary, while
was ace testingly referred to the Ring of the Natheelsan
Afterwards exception was taken to his decision by tee
United States; the matter remained open till the time
of Lord Ashburton's minion; and it was fisally
settled by him. But in no sue has any such sefeness
ever been followed by war. In 1818 there wee a
convene le with America, for settling the claims made by
that country for armed sepal' during the war. It ma
agreed to refer that matter to the Emperor of Russia; sad
he decided in favour of the principle of compensation. ea
was then appealed to by both the govern= nts to defies a
mode by which this compensation should be adjudged; sae
his plan was this. He said—" Let each party name acme
missioteer and an &sharer. ; let the eommisioners stet,
sad if they can agree, well and good ; if no., let the asan
of
the arbitrators be put into an urn, and one dram eel
by lot; and that arbitrator and tee two cemmietionen dull
guide the question by a majority." This method vu
adopted, and compensation to the event of 1,200.000=e
lan' was given, without any difficulty. Hence, it appeal
that what I propose Is no novel'y, no innovetion ; it hes
been practited, and practised with success; I only wear
yon to carry it a little further, and resort te it ii
anticipation of these quarrels For this
I process an address to the crown, prayiag that
1 her Majesty will Instruct her foreign secretary er
1 prem.!' to foreign powers to enter int, Megan
providing that, in ass of any future onaunderstandiegon
arbitration such as I have described shell he rem gratin
There .no difficulty in fixing the wane of arbitration, and
provi ling the details; for arbitration is =much wed in private
life, and to indeed made par a of many glee= and acts of
parliament, that there is no difficul y Treace is carrying
out the plan, erovided you are egreed as to the policy of
doing so. (Neer, hear.) Now, 1 shall be mat with this
objection ; I have heard it already ; lied I knees them are
men in this house who purpose to vr.te against the motion ea
this ground. They say, What is the use of a lusty of
this sort between France and England, for instance; tee
parties would not observe a treaty ; it would be a piece el
waste paper ; they would go to war as before, in epite army
treaty." It would be a sufficient anewer to teat ohjectioate
say, "What is the use of any :rest,/ e (liege) Whet ia the
use of the foreign office ? (H ter) What I. the weepy
diplomacy?" You might shut up the one and regain=
other. (Hear, hear.) I say that a treaty binding tee
countries to keep the peace, and to refer their disputes I
arbitration, isjuat es likely to be observed as any, otherume
I anticipate another objection, which I have beard men
They say " you cannot carat the great interests of lag.
land to in eviduah, to commissioners such as yen neat"
That is upon the assumption that the quarrels with foram
countries are quarrels involving the whole exist nee of the
empire. On the contrary, whenever there quarrels Ws
place, it is generally upon the moat minute and ...yid pre
revs—cheer, hear)—so absurd that it is almost impotake.
on looktng back for the last hundred years, to tell precidy
what any war was about. (Hear.) I heard the other de
of a boy going to gee a model of the battle of Wa.erloo, me
when he asked what the battle was about, no they the old la
dier who had charge of the exhibition,nor any ono in the rem.
could answer the question. (Hear, hear.) At all evestel
I may quote the remark made the other night by tke retie
lord at the head of the government—that the last Woven
were unnecessary—(hear, hear)—in which I quite tree Me
him. But, to return to the p lint whether or not comes.
sinners might be entrusted with the grove matters whlt
form the subjects of dispute between mama, I would draw
the ettenti= o. the house to the fact that already you do en-
, trust these matters to individuals. Tres eta of rue, made
atter war, ere gem rally entrusted to individuals to negotiate
and carry out. (Hear, hear) Take the case of Lrd Castle.
reagh, =presentee% the British power at the nursed
Vienna. He had full power to bind this country to the
treaty of Vienn e. 'When he entered this house ea the 211
of March, 1816, and Mr. Weitbread brought on tie
subject of the treaty, with the view of cenewim
his conduct and that of the g. 'tenement, Lord Code
reach distinctly told the house. " I would not wait for is.
struc ions at Vienna; I never allowed the machine of tle
congress to stand sell fur want of my c ineurteliee on in.
portent matters; I took upon my elf the me onsibibrycl
acting ; end if the Interests and hoeour of Baked hare
been sacrificed, I stand here shone r. sponeib.e." I wait to
know, could not as et od men as Lord Cavleresgli be bud
to settle these muter blecire a twenty Tears' war? Why
not depute to a pleeipetentitery the same powers Woman?
and a conflict as you eive him after ? For these Batten
can onl a be steeled tie, deputation, by empoweeillit inuividule
to sect fur you ; and let the government femurs them ai day
will, a (lured nap power, alter all, must he left, gm
they are to bud tte country in respect to tee others. (Hoe,
hear.) Take the cos.' of Lord Ashburton =Wine tabbies i
boundary questi in in America. H- had the power to bindthe
country to anything lie set his hand to. No doubt le Lad=
instructions from tee government, but he pre seen berates
title to the Aleutian government, and is revived ey them'
Teuatthheeriseite,t tovnbyinedart.hiswecohunavtrye
i.Meresnweedhicnuir he
cur
acme
i furcateda
60,000 ; in the army, navy, and ordnance the expiate=
Ira been augmented 60 to 70 per cent. Frem 106 don
to last year there is no proof of the government hareem/
confieence in the Our/Wiwi of peace, or p mating ui--m
sr
security against war. (Hear, hear) I think the inferno
is quite the contrary. On the committees en weich 1 hie
been sitting I have seen semething which has perfectly het
r fled me ; and I dare say other hon. gentlemen would shot
my alarm at the stets of things. But I confess, when I hen
looked into wha we are doing in the way of provision II
warlike Dunes, means of aggression, and preparationsfe
dote ice against some foreign enemy, I' have been &sweetie
at the wasteful expenditure that is going on What miller&
gentlemen think warn they know that we have 170.02
barrels of gunpo seder in store? (Hear, hear) Besidestbk
we have 65 millions of bell cartridges made up re tidy form
(t• Hear, hear," and a laugh from the protectionist beechen
The public will not laugh when they read what Iwe
(Hear, hear.) They will act join the hen membrane
counties opposite in laughing at this statement. We bee
60,000 pieces of cannon in sere, besides those awe, Pi h
arsenal., and garrisons, and batteries. There are 6 melee
of cannon-balls and shells in the stores—(bear, hear)—mi
1,200,000 ssud-begs, ready for use whenever they *reneged
(Laughter.) There are provisions equal to three cr kw
years consumption of these articles in the height of tee
French war. You have, in barrelled gunpowder &loses
supply equal to nearly three years' consumption of thee &
cle in the he ight of the French war, and equal to Flo
years' consumption at the present rate ; to say oothme li
the 65 millions of hall cartridges. (Hear, her.) Wa
anybody presume to answer me by the vague dere*
tion that we want no further guarantee for the Fe
nervation of peace? Will any one tell me that we ile
not strictly
„Justified and warreoted in reyieg, at se
events, to bring to bear the opinion of tea home, of tbe
country, and of the civilised work), upon some ra-
ter mode of presendog peace than that which WWI
upon peace almost all the berdens which war formerlyllo
to entail? (Hear, hear.) We are now spending every 7W
.on e
sonnyr
isurrmiennetehaetemintiodrieseohrthwe pent
yu&ally( (
Hi n thar,ebii
lea,
If I am opposed by supposititious care', and told 'L
my plan would not apply to such, I take my :stand IPat
past experience, and will show you numerous icons
where it would have applied. Nay, more, all it, vii'
avoidable quarrels we have had during the lad
years—l mean three which could not have been an idei
any conduct on the part of our government—all these
have been more fitly Fettled by arbitration than in any
other way : and I will appeal to the right hon. eettilAe
on both aides of this house, who have filled tespeln
offices when such disputes have arisen, wheeler they
not have felt relieved and happy had they hail this
of arbitration to rely on in these cases. (Hear, hoer) ,
the eve of 1837, when a dispute arose with Bieber!
the confiscation of a ship in the Bleck Bea celled the Nat
The noble lord the member for Tiverton was thee Folede
Secretory. He knows very well that that vessel was sent 012
Black Scatty a particular party, with a nerticular eletoe.
thing was entirely got up. I was inofCi
freighted and seat to the coat of Cirassis for n,
time, and knew the whole history
very purples of embroiling us with Russia :elra
immediately she wee seised there was a party real 'flit
an excitement against the noble lord for submitting?,.
arrogant spoliation of the Russian government. ffse_,
then had an arbitration treaty with the Russian goverl.w7,,
would rot that have been the best possible resource form
noble lord in that ctse, and have enabled him to eteso '
party attacks mode upon him in this country ? 114!
non, which, after all, did not affect an amount of pr_ol,,
it. That
at
7ft,
mere than 2,0001 or 3,0001, might have been sewttl,e4 _ ,
petty jury of twelve honest tradesmen tree ISS I! °
bowl
the noble lord in the Foreign-office. (Hewett:
any ore for a moment tell mo that the &mete
_D...
boundary between Maine and New Brunswick, and
our Unit ite and that of Oregon, might not have bees
tlel lay arherseitn? (Hear, hear.) I Prefer the "Zia
meat of commissioner, to that of crawnei be de ; rh