The Express.
London, England, 1848-07-28 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMEA T.
HOUSB OF LORDS.—TnintspaT, JULY 27.
The LORD CHANCItt.hou took his lest at five o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
SECOND READINGS.—Richmond and teeth Rod; River Neno
Improvement and Drill:l4e ; Virgin Mary's Hospital (Neweastle-
upon:Tyne) Estate t mils.
THIRD READINGS.—Royston
and Bitches Railway Extension ;
Londonderry and Coleraine Railway (deviation of Ilse and amendment
of act) ; Londonderry Improvement ; Bids.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
SECOND READlNGS.—lttehland Roads and Bridges (Scotism)) ;
Chanty Trust Regulation ; Ildh.
COMMIT fEES.--Priacos i Ecelesiasttml Patronage Suits Compro-
mise; lOU.
REPORTS.—Exchange of Advowsons in the counties of Warwick
and Stafford ; Provident Associations Fraud Prevention; Wee. Inuia
Id.enda Relief : little.
THIRD ItEADlNG.—Pulfile Health 13i11.
PETITION.—Ify the Ear! of DEVON, from Wm. Plltltle Matt,
Cbcvliam, Buckinghamshire, praying for leave to brine in a bill to ofd-
clare void the marriage of Esther Field with Samuel Drown.—Lae
was given to being in the bin.
PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
Lord CAMPBELL moved the third reading of this bill. ~
The Bishop of LONDON could not allow the opportunity
to pass without expressing his approval of the amendments
which had been adopted on the suggestion of the select come
mi.tee to which the measure had been referred. The rich
could take care of themselves ; and the poor should there-
fore he especial objects of attention to the legislature. He
had always Liken the most lively interne in this subject, and
he was most thankful to their lordships for haring passed so
useful and salutary a measure, which was justly called " The
poor man's bill."
Lord BROUGHAM also expressed his approval of the
measure and the amendments made in the select committee.
The bill was then read a third time and passed.
RUMOURED REBELLION IN IRELAND.
Lord BROULf HAM wished to put a question to the noble
marquis opposite. He was sure that the noble marquis must
be aware that every sort of practice, was resorted to to in-
crease the public curiosity by practising on the public credo
lity ; and he thought it only right that a contradiction should
be given ta a report which d app' aced to day, in order to
relieve the public from the alarm which these speculators
wished to excite. The report alleged that the troops had
been defeated in the south of Ireland, and moreover that
they had not done their duty. lie had no' doubt, from thy
exaggerated character of the report, and a comparison of
dates, that it was incorrect ; hut he wished to know whether
the government had received any communication on the
subject? lie should not be alarmed to see some little out-
break in the district referred to, and he hoped the public
would not be alarmed, as it would be instantly put
down. (fleas', hear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE knew that great inge-
nuity was practised in inventing such reports, but he be-
lieved that to which the noble and learned lord had referred
to be entirely unfounded, or very nearly so. The govern-
ment had received despatches' dated three o'clock yesterday,
from the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, and letters from Dub-
lin, dated six o'clock last evening, in which nothing of the
kind was mentioned. At the Fame time he could not say
that there was nut a probability of an outbreak in the district
referred to. Most inflammatory epee hes had been made to
excite the people there to rebellion ; but if they should have
that effect, it would be with a far different result from that
which bad been described in the report alluded to.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY thought the govorn-
meet were quite right in waiting until the last moment be-
fore they resorted to the measures which they had recently
adopted.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE begged to say that within
the last few minutes he had read a communication from
Dublin, dated seven o'clock last night, in white no mention
was mace of the matter which had been so confidently stated
in the retort alluded to. (Hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM said an Irish member bad arrived in
the same train which was said to have brought the intelli-
gence, and he had heard nothing of the sort in Liverpool.
THE LAW OF MARRIAGE.
The Bishop of LONDON wished to know whether the
gets ernruent would sanction the introduction of a measure
relating to the marriage of a deceased's wife's sister at an late
a period of the sesaion 1 He understood such a measure had
heen recently brought into the other house of parliament.
Now he thought it ought not to lee passed until his right re v.
brethren, who had given much attention to the subject, had
bad an opportunity of expressii g their opinions on it, and
many of them had lett town and could not possibly return
during the present session of parliament Ile hoped the
government would not sanction the introduction of the bell
this session.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said the important and
delicate measure to which the right rev. prelate alluded, and
which was founded on the report of a commission, had not
been taken up by the government, but by a learned indivi-
dual connected with the other house, who had given notice
that he would introduce a measure on the subject. He (the
noble marquis) wan not prepared to rely that the government
would refuse their ;Ism nt to the introduction of the bill, even
in the present session nt parliament. It wee. an important
subject, both politically, morally, and religiously, and it was
desirable that it should he set at rest with as little del iy as
possible.
CHARITY TRUSTS REGULATION BILL.
The LORD CIIANCELLOR, in moving the second
reading of this bill said it was introduced the better to re-
gulate certain charitable. trusts. The Municipal Reform
Bill took away from the corporations the power of ad-
ministering the uses connected with the trusts of many chari-
ties, and it was now necessary to apply to the Court of
Chancery to appoint trustees, which was au expensive pro-
cess. Moreover, those trustees, could not take the legal
estate, which was said to be in nuhibus. Many small char:-
ties could not afford to come to the Court of Chancery at
all, and they had no means of renewing their trustees. It
must be evident that there was a constant necessity for see-
ing that the funds of these charities were properly ads
mieistered. To show the extent of this evil, he might state
that of charities under 301. a year, which could not afford to
apply to Chancery, there were 23,746 ; the total numker of
charities in the situation tee had described being 28,340. In
1846 the present County Courts bad been established, and
they had been found to be much more useful than it was
eve r imagined they could be. They were Low 60 in
number, and from November, 1846, to the came period
in the foliowine year, they bad adjudicated upon
no less teen 420,4111 suits, and received during the
since Iteri d 600,5591., including 203,3181. for fess.
It would, he believed, be practicable to reduce these fees by
one halt, and still leave a revenue suffichut to pay all the
expenses of the establishment. This, he thought, was a
highly satisfactory state of things—(hear, hear)—and they
need not look farther for a juriediction to administer these
local charities. lie might at once therefore say !hat the
object of the bill was that all charities under 301. a year,
should be subject to the jurisdiction of the judges of the
county courts. The greater part of the bill applied to that
purpose ; but it had also other objects, one of which was
that by an order or a judge or the Court of Chancery, the
legal estate should be vested in the treasurer of the county
court ; and by the same authority the stock of such cha-
rities would also be transferred to the same officer. In
ascertaining the value of the charities, so as to else
them the benefit of this measure, the report of the Chari-
table Trusts commissioners would lee held to be conclusive.
The bill provided, among other things, that persons en-
trusted with charitable funds should annually render up a
balance sheet for the inspection of the proper authorities.
(Hear.) There was a great deal of property under these
trusts which had been beeueathed in old times, and a far
different state of society, for purposes to which they would
be sanity inadequate at the present day, and the o!tject of
the bill was, i possible, to render such property available fur
eaucational purposes. At present toe county courts might
report to the Court of Chancery as to the way in which each
;lusts might be carried out, but there were many small
towns and 'MIR'S* from which an appeal to the Court of
Chancery would completely exhaust the fonds. In such
eases he thought they could not do better than hand the
funds over tee the county courts, giving them then erne towers
as were tow enjoyed by the Court of Chancery.
In cams where doubts might arm as to the efficiency of
the county courts, a reference might be given to the
educational committee of the Privy Council, a tribunal in
which the public seemed to have considerable confittence.
After tree or two further observations the noble and 1, anted I
lard move d the second readies of the bill.
Lard REDESDALE appi weeded the principle and object
of the bill, but ohjected to the time at which it had been
brought forward. Ile trusted that the noble and learned
lord would not press the MU further during the prosent
session.
The Bishop of LLANDAFF said that the object of the
hill was one in which the. right rev. bench tuck a deep in-
terest. A bill which should tend to th 3 application of the
various small trust funds scattered over the country to etiu-
catMnol purposes would rev lye their most favourable con-
side ration. There were, however. sees rate naetments in the
present measure to which he could nut pledge either his
riaht rev. brethren or himself. IL concurred in the sugees-
tion of the ble baron an to postponing the bill until re xi

Breton.
The salll of lIARROWDY believed that there was
nothing mare abused than the various small trust funds
scattered over the country, aor anything more loudly call
ing for a remedy. It :as theretore with reluctance that he
stood in the way of legislation on the subject, but he leared
that with a bill introduced at the end of July little progress
could he made during the present year.
Toe LOltD CHANCELLOR did not think the Mg= so
far advanced as to preclude the hope that they inight com-
plete a measure respecting which there seemed to ha so g- ne-
ral a concurs nee among their lordships. The tact was that
a bill nearly similar had been introduced last session, so that
the public had had ample time to consider the principle.
The bill was then read a sec ind time. and, after a short
discussion, the committee was fixed fer that day week.
Their lordships celjourned at ha t•past seven o'clock.

litigation. Three clauses of the bill virtue ly repealed the
act 7 & 8 Victoria, under which contested elections were now
tried. The power to appoint two commissioners.who should
possess all the powers of the house, was most objectionable,
at
to the involving
schedule the
o li e p: itehcei p !bei
ih e doublefou ndd storasthi of.. Referring
the boroughs to which it referred. Why, there were actions
pending for penalties, if they bad not been compromised,
arising out of the Honham e:ection ; and WAS it pr 'per to
legislate on that subject while these actions were pending
to fore a competent tribunal ? The cases of Leicester and
Derby offered this remark—that while in the latter the
whiga only had bribed, in the former, not only whigs, but
radicals, end the leaders of the newly formed reform party,
bad been guilty of the same practices. Ile s conded the
amendment en grounds of principle, and not of detail, fur
he ohiected to every enactment of the bill.
Mr. HUDSON roil he had opposed this bill in a former
stage, but should not now vote teem it. His opinion of tb •
bill was not altered ; he thought it would create a great
arnauet of strife and tic art-burnings. lle had known what
it was to be the subject of one of those inquiries, aria to
have his private conversations reported and all his trareac-
tions exposed. If investigation were imeituted it should be
general. An bon. member of that house had openly stated
that there hail been gross bribery at the isat election for
London, and had even mentioned the names of those who
had paid the price of corruption. If any inquiry was made
it should include the last election for London. It was pre-
posterous to set up a crusade against all elections at which
money had been distributed to the po• rer electors. lie dad
cot speak of bribes, of course, nor hail the small sum* elven
to poor elictors for thc:r dinner. or fur their reasonable ex-
penses to ass d from the place of polling, anything to do with
bribery. If it were elccid d that halt crown tickets or five-
shilling tickets given in this way to the poor electors
were to vitiate elections, the result would he to throw the
franchise wholly into the hands of the rich, for unless euste-
mance on their ray to and from the pulling ;laces were given
to the humbler electors they would nut be able to attend
and exercise their franchise at all ; for the very practical
reason that they could not afford it. Ma' did the right hon.
baronet propose to do when he had got his report ? There
was no practical intimation as to what the result was pro-
posed to be. After the decided division which heel token
p ace on a former stage of the bill, he should not vote against
the present stage, though be still retained. all his objections to
the measure.
Mr. URQUIIA.RT supported the amendment.
The house divided.—FForor the motion
the amendment 2-91
The house then went into committee.
On claim I being proposed,
Mr. ANSTEY said he should move the omission of thou
wrds in the clause which authorised inquiries into elections
ino reference to which committees already nominated had not
made a special report; and he ahouhl afterwards, whatever
the division on that amendment, move the omission of tie
clause eltnwethr r.
Col. SIBTHOILP contended for the impartial extension
of the inquiry.
Mr. ANS FY then put the amendment he had intimated,
limiting the inquiry to elections with respect to which
special reports had been made.
'1 he SOLICITOR4J EN KRAL snegested the propriety of
postponing this amendment until they came to the list of
boroughs.
' Mr. REYNOLDS deprecated the manner in which, at
this period of the session, the hon. and learned member for
Youghal, in the spirit of mere opposition, occupied t' e time
of the house. (Hear, hear.) There had that day bees con-
sumed four hours in the discussion whether the bill Was to
go into committee, of which lour hours the hen. and learned
member had absorbed three. ( Hear, hear.) Hon gentle-
men
present clearly showed themselves to be members of
Job's family by their magnanimous endurance on the occa-
sion. (Hear, hear.) Before he came into parliament he
had been warned by his friends not to weary the attention
of the house by long, rigmarole, absurd speeches about
nothing—(hear, heir)—end he had, from a feeling of
respect to niineelf and to the house, abstained from perpe-
trating such speeches—(bear, hear, and a Laugh) ; but
certainly as a zealous repealer he ought to hail such speeches
in the hon. and learned member for Youghal, in the convic-
tion that if the hon. and learned member could manage to
get fifty other Irish members with Null strength of lung and
obstinacy of pertinacity—(hear, lieer)—the imperial House
of Commons would stile repeal in sheer weariness and
disgust. (Great laughter.)
Mr. ANSTEY, who, on rising, was received with general
and loud cries of Oh, oh," protested against the attack
made on him by the hon. member for Dublin, whom he
charged with being influenced iu his new seal teethe govern-
ment by views of personal advancement, and by the Reform
Club contribution in aid of his election committee expi MS,
which the right hon. member for Drogheda had admitted
himself a die or to. (Loud cries of " Oh, oh.")
Sir W. SOMERVILLE dam-nded to know by what
authority the hon. and learned member thus introduced his
name on this occasion?
Mr. ANSTEY had no hesitation in answering the hon.
baronet. The hon. baronet admite or did not deny, the
other night that he had paid money for the support of an
election an impeachment of which upon petition was now
pending; and he said that the money was not paid by him
in the capacity of Secretary bur Ireland.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE.—I said nothing of the kind.
(Cheers.)
Mr. ANSTEY said he was in the recollection of the house.
Whatever verbal variations there might be between the hon.
gentleman's statement seed this lie could not tell. Unless
his tits were treacherous that was the substance of what the
hon. member said. (Oh.)
Sir W. SO M ERVILLE.—I beg to say that nothing fell
from me the other night that could give the shadow of a
foundation for what the hon. member has stated. (Coders
and cries of " Oh, oh.")
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL appealed to the committee
whether such personal discussions were consistent with the
dignity of the house or the furtherance of public business.
hoped that the hon. member fur Youghal would with-
draw his amendment.
ale ANSTEY must say, before he replied to that appeal,
that the hon. gentleman had not answered his question.
The CHAIRMAN put it to the committee whether it
ace aded with the dictates of propriety or discretion that
they should allow such discussions as this ? (Cheers.)
ln answer to a question from Mr. PACYB.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that the provisions of
the bill could only apply to those cases in which this house
eat in committee onclection committees.
Mr. ANSTEY said that he would press his amendment.
The galleries were then cleared • and on our re-admission
we Caned that no division had taken place, the hon. gentle-
man haying withdrawn his amendment.
After gems verbal amendments the clause was agreed to.
On the second clause being proposed,
Cu!. SIB HORP said that he would move that the clause
be omitted as entirely unconstitutional.
Alter a few words from the SOLICLTUK•GENICRAL and Mr.
hENLEY,
Mr. GODSON objicted to the clause.
Sir 1). L EVANS supported it.
Mr. .1. 11013110 U SE I bought that the clause violated the
principle of English law, weich deciared that a man ought
not to be called on ta give evidence against himself. Ihe
clause would convert every member iuto an informer against
his own constituents.
The SOLICITOR GENERAL sail a few words in

explanation.
Mr. C. BERKELEY was so far opposed to the view taken
of the clause by his hon. friend the member for Lincoln as
to be quite ready, and even desirous, to be Examined as to
the practices at his own election, use borough b:iug one that
was impugned.
Mr. MANGLES thought that a member who gas, evi-
dence of corrupti,o :,mongst his consituents was serving
:hem and doing his duty by his cooutry.
Mr. PACKE supported the amendment for striking out
the elmse.
Mr. HENLEY moved the oinis,ion of words from the
cla..ee the effect of which would be to exempt the sitting
member or members, any candidate or eandigates, Or their
agents from examination before the comn.ittee.
Mr. It PALMER said, that as the law stood a man might
be constitutionally examined, even iu his own case, it he
were lade moitied.
Mr. BANKES thought that there should be an indemnity
for c ,nseitueecies as we a • for inembas.
Mr. C. BERKELEY said, that i eirrupt practices pre.
veiled in Cheltenham, he would be happy to be the person to
disclose them.
Sir 11. L. EVANS thought that the amendment w; nt
too far in including agents.
Mr. It. PALMEIt did not thick the amendment would
effect the object contemplated by his hon. friend.
Atter a tow words from Mr. HENLEY,
The committee divided—For the amendment 22
Against
Mr. BANKES "aid that by the bill an alternative was
allowed to committees of uel,gatiug their power to a coin-
m:ssion, who were to be lawyers of tereeyears' standing,
and to such delegation he should object. Cote majority iu
that house might 118:' such a p..wer for party purpose, He
had voted fur the second reading of the bill, but it this part
of it was not altered he would vote against the third reading.
He moved that the words refitting to commissioners be
omitted.
The SOLICITOR.GENERAL hoped the house would'
not adopt the amendment. The object of having commis-
siouers was to save expense and delay by enabling the inqui-
ries to be made upon the spot.
Cul. SIBTHOSP said that was not ta, real reason. The
real reason for the commission was to secures patronage fur
the government.
The SOLICITOR.GENERAL said the judges were to
appoint
Col. SIBTHORP.—Ay, in one sense, but don't tell me
there won't be a Downing street nomination.
Mr URQUHART opposed a commission, on the ground
that the house ought out in any way to surrender its pre-
rogative.
Mr. ANSTEY, amielst groans and cries of "divide,"
moved that the committee report progress.
The SOLICITOR GENERAL expressed his hope that
the hark. and learned member would not prey his motion,
at least until the clause under discussion was disposed of.
Mr. ANSTEY persisted in his motion, and complained
that the hon. member for Salford never moved the adjourn-
ment of the house when it interfered with the government
business. (" He's gone to Goodwood." Laughter.)
Col. SIB I'HORP seconded the motion, mainly on account
of the absence of the noble lord the member for the City of
London, who was most probably eijojing a ministerial fi.,h
dinner, instead of looking alter the interests of his immuu-
late coustitueacy. (A laugh.)
The committe divided—For the motion
Against it
Mr. HENLEY sugg steel to the hon. and learned Solici-
tor. General whether it would not be bAtir to report pro-
gre:.s, seeing that the clause under discussion involved a prin-
ciple which would require much consideration, and that the
house had already sat twelve hours ? (Hear, hear.)