The Express.
London, England, 1849-03-21 00:00:00

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that tt a House of COllllllO6/ Wlll not the place where the
question ought Lobe brought, but that it shoul be taken
foto a wort of kw. (Hear, hoar.) If the hon. gentleman,
seder eater of this Iso4kea, want that a pr,seeution abould
be dittoed splint the bishop for imatiasal practices, be did
sit ass hew the Is at Comm= emii interfere, Bat if
the irainamins was siimpahar biped the law, sad that
fa object of the boa spatinnen me to provide for a
digemot amasiumat end Wt
of _ panonsgo
ki Mum, the Nam amiss in that ease vonld be, that
=shorinid mho some mind
sash as ea is might think necessary, with a
view to a Mier tIYM trodsta et that patronage in Snare.
'What gamma te bus In he a fir better 001111111 than to take
me a perdurable ace, sad az on it as that alone with
a they meld dad. With regard to this whole ease,
therefore, be biased to give any positive opinion
as to whether the arrangtasars which Dad been ma :a ware
the best that could poesibly be made. He begged the how
to observe, however, lathe Int helium that it was cash seed
by the pentionsn themselves that the clergymen arpoinktd
WOO eminently it, that they were of exemplary character,
and of great nakistiniel devotion ; in the next place, that
the epplis Rion of the fonds, as far as application was made
of them, was with a view of increasing the lamina of the
chapeiries and providing for spiritual instruction in the
peersh ; and in the last place, that what was oohed
was not that Bishop Portsmouth should be butts
provided for, but that the surplus should be given
to the town of Sunderland, a totally different parish,
for which, as far as he could see, there wee no claim in law
sr equity, or trona the fact th it both parishes weft in the
suss town. Than appeared to h.in to be the subs leatares
• the case. The hon. gentleman who bad brought for-
ward this mode* had taken this opportunity, as on many
others of • similar kind, of impugning this particular dis-
tribution of pa• ard of making ctrtain imputations
against the general tor of the Bishop of Durham. He
would only male a penal declaration ow the other
head, that the Bishop of Dsrhsm's conduct was regulated
by a doe regard to the heavy and high responsibility Defeat
lag to his episcopal stalk*. (Hear, hear.) When he said
that he knew the Bishop of Durham for many yease, be
meat that he ham kin at school, where he entirely devoted
himself to the pursuits of lowing', and did not eater mash
late the world, and wee concerned in Urfa bleed the pur-
suits of learning, divieity, and those stalks whkis b=
Afterwardsto hie sacred callingAfterwardshe was roam
he a bishopric, and 13,0001. was taken away from what
was then reckoned en twine of 21,0001. a year. (Hear.)
His belief was that he always enducted himself with great
generosity sad liberality. That he was respected in his
diocese, mad had always endeavoured to dispose of hie
patronage ia sad a way as to promote the welfare of those
who were oomualtted to his spiritual charge. (Hear.) But,
however that might be, he submitted he ought not to be
singled out as the °bleed of such an invidious motion.
(Hear.) 1f there mast be a =oboe let it be of a general
kind, end sot of the special nature of the motion now before
the house. With regard to reforms is the church generally
inquiries were now going on, end others were to be insti-
tuted on the modes of his noble friend opposite—(Lord Ash-
ley)--all of which must tend to still greeter rotors% its the
shank than had hitherto taken place. It was sot denied
that great aleu-ss existed, and year after year efforts had
bee* made by the church and the clergy thew...yes
to remedy them. Measures bad bees passed, with
the universal concurrence of parliament, for the sank
object ; and he trusted that, year alter year, they should
still further reform the church, so as to enable
it to impost spiritual batruction to a still wider 'steal than
was heretofore the cam. (Hear, heal.) He hoped the hon.
gentleman would co operate in suet reforms, bat he cer-
tainly could not cogent to a motion which seemed to be in-
itialled as an 'emotion against an individual, and which, if
gat in that shape at all, must be brcuakt is • court of law
kr simoniacal practises. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. Al& roma THOMPSON said that, having been for so
kin a psried umneted with the town of Suaderiand, he
loan net conteut himself with a silent vote as the present
smailost. He was not prepared to expect acquieseram in
the mottos on the pert of the noble lord, but he certainly
thtunbt he woald ham munterord to the hoar that it was
le intention of the Bishop of Durham to introduce a bill on
ths subj. et. (Hear.)
Lord J RUSSELL—Poesibly the Bishop of Durham may
intend to introdece a bill.

Mr. Alderman THOM PSON had expected that the noble
lord would have Seen authorised to state that the right rev.
prelate was prepared to brine in a bill. (Hear, hear.) He
did not earn with the noble lord that the present motion
wet attended with any inconvenience, because the circling.
stances of Bishop Weananuth were peculiar, and there was
no daager that it would be all. d into • precedent for similar
motion. (Hear.) The complaint against the Bishop at
Durham was not with n spot to the two clergymen whom
he appointed, but that he hypothecated a portion of the
111101311/1 of the parish without stating the mode in which he
meant to apply ►t. (Hear.) Then the noble lord said that
the parish of Sunderlaad had no more right to any part of
the temporalities of Bishop Wearmouth than any other pa-
rish ; but he seemed to forget the fact, that it was only in
the last century that these parishes were *operated. (Cheer.)
The noble lord bad forg men that although the parish of
Sunderland neatened upwards of 20,000 poor penons, the
stipends of the rector and his curates did not amount to more
than 1001. a year each. The late rector, the reverend Mr.
Ony, could not pomibly have acted as he did had he not
pond a large fortune. Hie ,neome from other sources
enabled him •o relieve the necenities of the parish ; and his
enceemer, Mr. Webb, finding the pressure upon him too
heavy, obtained from the Mahon of Dunham another living.
The wish of Sunderland had, he maintained, • spe:ial
claim to participate in the temporalitiss of Bishop.
westranth. The END, income of the rector was
2,1001. • year, and even after making the requisite
dodeetions for curatee, and the expenses of collecting
thinee and soon, the net income was 1,2001. a jeer ; while
the rector of Strodnland could not possibly receive mon
than 2801. • year. la this case it wee to be observed that
Sunderland was net opposed to Bishop Westmeath, but the
two parishes Joined in petitioning parliament for a bitter
distribution. Under such circumstanoes tl,e noble lord had
not evinced his usual candour in attempting to make
out that the inhabitant, of Sunderland had to claim on
the temporalidn which were attached to Sti, &nand.
(Hear, heir.) He saw no inconvenience which could arise
Isom seceding to the motion. lie should, however, have
refund to hear from the noble lord that it woe the inten-
tion of the Bishop of Durham himself to introduce a bill on
the subject. It was impossible fix the Bishop of Durham to
apply the surplus finds o! Bishop Wearmouth without
making an application to parliament, and it would have been
more astisfeetny both to the church end the country if he
had followed the churn usual in such cases. If the hon.
member went to a division, he should certainly feel it his
duty to divide with him.

Led J. RUSSELL said thin wss no suggestion as to a
bill in the petitions. Re gaits agreed with the hon.
member that it would be best to introduce a bill.

Lord H. VANE said he also wee of opinion that the best I
source wined have been to introduce • bill to secure a dis-
tribution of the revenue, between the two parishes. At the
same lime he thought 010 manner in which the motion had
been brought b.rward was moot unfair. So for from the ea
teenage of the bishop having been ge Ily exercised as de-
scribed, he must declare, from his knowledge of cases in
which incumbencies had been granted, that nothing cowl be
fairer than hie die an! et patronage ; while he bat himself
troutributed liberally in the ease of small livings, and had
even employed curates at his own expense. He was himself
acquainted with cases in which large portions of church pro-
perty in the county of Durham—he now spoke mere particu-
larly of property belonging to the dean and chapter—had
been applied to the augmentation of small livinp ; and he
bad been informed that in many instances the right
rev. prolate had himself pursued a similar line of evader.
As regarded the way-lraves, they wire of re, precarious a
nature that it was impossible to form a permanent eudow.
meat from them ; and the right rev. prelare determined last
year to set apart the proceeds as • fund for the endowment
M email incumbencies instead of attempting to form endow-
ments for which they might prove inadequate. He hoped
the house weight not accede to • motion et so invidious a
character, however desirable it might be that the right rev.
prelate should himself introduce •
Mr. DISRAELI agreed with the noble lord that motions
like that under soasidesstice appeared Invidious. Without
sabering, Imirsver, into my of the personal details which
had bees leieskeed skier to mate er to vindicate
the eeminet of the Dielsep of Durham. he wished to
ham why it wee neemeary that the Bishop if
Durham Await be the person to introduce • bill,
when every hoe. member who had spoken admitted that to
bring ht • sill was the preferable coerce under the eireum-
stencte. It was quite in the power of her Majesty's govern-
ment to introduce one ; and the noble lard having frankly
confessed that be thought that would be the beet veins, he
should be glad it the government would, by making a pro-
min, spare him the painful duty of voting for the motion.
Hs agreed with the worthy alderman (Mr. Alderman Thew
see) that the passing of the motion would tot establish •
peecodnt of a 'mike' character ; but it would b. mesh
more agremble net to go to • division, and there would be no
aseeseiey for &dugs° if the noble lord would give an usu.
rum that, after an opportnaity had been afforded to the
Bishop of Durham to introduce a measure, if he had not
availed himself of it, the government Itself rmald do what
wee necessary. (Bear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER raid the
hem mum perceive that it was impossible for the govern-
%tat le tube the step which was suggested. The rector of
bey Weavneesth baying at that moment an Indefeasible
OM. tie ths prom& of the living, any measure introduced
gibe government to interfere with his possession of the
Memo mast' be a measure of spoliation. A little injustice
bad, be thought, been done to the bishop, whose general
aileddinselso of the affairs of his diocese was highly de-
leitelmg of praise, mei wbs had applied • large portion M
MI MU hams to the imprevankent of the parishes under his
Aug_ e. As ene of the eeeledsetical commentate» hi
Mogi* it 'sly right to elate t r the home that a certain
hems having been nesigned to the Bishop of Durham. at
the time when bones emitted to the diocese, it woe shoe-
wards Sava that a eeetiin pardon of the property produced
a larger anseent then was contemplated ; whereupon the
right rev. probes lolled to the commissioner; hie intention
In *Ain; apart 2,01 M. a ear on account of small
so bag as he reessised bishop of the di-cese, whisk se=
bees regularly paid, independently of other osetribn-
lone for the aegeasien of nnall livings. Hs hod the
peatest possible **edge to the Rouse of Commons deeding
Celt the revises. of • perdeolar parish, and applying them
for the benefit of another parish : it would be infinitely bet-
ter% lam essy peeidshods which might be derived from
the bishop& to Lo anis* ceder the direction of the Es.
desiestlsal Cennalsoissina.

Sir R. PEEL add he 'koala be very reluctant to &equi-
ties la say motion Insplyian disrespect for a bishop whose
gaseral seadact is the shoehorns of his du ics did not da-
wn say hank judgment. (Hear, hear.) Although the

tufo. had reference to a patt;cular transaction, the peeling
gawk • motion by the House of Commons must imply, to
a amok erase, a want of confidence in the general dia-
sharp of thebishop's functions. Os that subject he would oh-
mine that, having formerly, as the first minister of the crown,
bad the right of appointaseat In those estelesiagloal
trills whisk were formed by the act passed in 1864, his
enigma in the justice and integri'y of the right rev.
praises hawed Ma to leave the }wrongs is the diocese
of Dedlget sties disposal, aid the manner in which it was
examieed mmikened the favourable opisioi which be had
previossly sabriained of hist. He doubted whether they
world be alabilihkag a good precedent by dealing
with the awe of this premier pariah. Os the
sesame. of Mum vesenelee, the house might be
again ailed upon to express an opinion, and it
would be Meek to evade the application of the precedent.
( Neer, boor.) At the mine tints, he must exprem his cam
earresos it Om main object of the hes. tlemaa's motion.
(Chem.) He *ectei to it is a ;he would con-
sent to nothing with might boll dimmpect to a man of se
&deemed as age, on eminent girlie stlnhonsate, and a ex-
emplary is hue seednete as the libbisp of Durham ; bet seek
ecasidastiese wan subsidies's', the .she question, sad es
that Widest be Wisely sommered in the 'Onion which bad
been amsersed ea both Moe st the hems, that the &pull
of these mops, abseil be welded for by legislative mast.
nest. (Naar, beer.) He thought it weekd be ea mensal
mfampb. to propos to make a new distribution of am*
mope by set of parliament. Many brass rangy ad-
venom of the valse of four sr Ire theme& pith a year
bad malted the aid of paelbsest to amble them to
divest themselves of the patronise and to asks s new dis-
tribution, and in this ease be thought it wesid be soot
openly to all upon the legislature to aid the blimp is tak-
isg a similar course. (Hear, hear.) He met she say that
h. weld not concur in the Mina of the adds lord that
Sunderland had no better dela to participate in the re-
moves of Bishop Wearmouth than any other perish. (Hear,
hear.) Let the house cansidee bow mush the spiritual
tomtit of Bishop Wearmouth meld be altered by this vicinity
of Sanderland ; and, above all, let it be remembered that,
bet for the extraordinary &Wilma which had taken
Saw, Illulderland and Bishop Weenies* would still be
waited. It wee impossible, dwellers, to show that if a new
distribution of the us. were made Sunderland
had no better elates than any other parish to
shire the advantwee of that distribution. Whilst
the louse should avoid any precipitate declarati ,n on this
subject, he hoped that if the noble lord succeeded in nega-
tiving the motion, he would make each friendly recommen-
dations to the Bishop of Darkens, end to all parties con-
cerned, es would lead them, in accordance with the unani-
mous folio( of the hum, to set the example of a new
appropriation of them revenue by act of parliament ; the
means devised for that purpose being such se would most
meant* to the spiritual interests (all other considerations
being dieregarded) of a vast population, which bad the ad-
di•ional claim of baying been hitherto most grievously
neglected.

Mr. MANGLES uld bis teas. Mend Ges eneptelir fa

Co71;ormo lasiMaieossi;st;l;•eteseeirt it was
neemarfs no* mcreiy foe the sake of this partkaler
parish, hut for the credit of the church, that some
measure shruld be intrscluced either by Use bishop or by the
goverment. (Hear, hear.) He must say that he did not
think the noble lord (Lord J. Ruses-11), bad dons his hm.
blend (Kr. Holman) Jessie, by the NUMMI' is which he had
referred to the motion. The noble lord's speech was more
like en attack on kis bon. (thud for his supposed motives
than a hir meeting of the statements which he had made to
the house. (Hear.) He felt conyineed that his hon. friend
had wed throughout as a einem friend and supporter of
the chards of Ragland. end that if the snessures which he
so strenuously advoestad were adopted, the Interims of that
church would be strengthened by them. As reed the
simenisesl part of two question his boa friend alleged
the breach of law as an additional reason for legislation. Sin-
are members of the chunk of England would be relieved from
e rest pain and embarramment by reeeivieg from the noble lord
enamellists' that he would so =skean of that friendship with
the right rev. prelate, which he said he had so long enjoyed,
as to secure, by the introiuetion ,of • bill, the accomplish-
ment of his boa. friend's objects. (Hear, bear.)

Lord ASHLEY said what he had chiefly to object to. in
this ease was the piscine of a large fund in the hands of
trustees without any definite purpose. (Hear, beer.) He
doubted, indeed, whether such an arrangement were legal.
The property was of coons given by the donors for spiritual
parries ; yet it was now set apart to accumulate, and no
one but the bishop could tell how long the process of accu-
mulation was to continue. He heartily concurred in the
principle of the motion, and he could bear testimony to the
:sal and integrity of the hon. gentleman's conduct.
Having had the pleasure of seeing the hon. gentle-
man mu* in privite, he did not hesitate to express
his conscientious belief that in all that he under-
took in there metiers be was actusted by a sincere de-
sire to promote the welfare and efficiency of the church.
(Hear, hear) Hs hoped, however, that his hon. fiend
would not prom his motion, believuig aa he did that the
opinions which had been expressed on both sides of the
house would induce the bishop to introduce a means. in
strict accordance with the reasonable, and he might say,
cusecientions feelings of the House of Commons.

Mr. J. 8. WORTLEY said that though he could not vote
for the nt Mon, he concurred in the opinion that it was abso-
lutely neceseary that Dome legislative measure should be in-
trocksord. Assuming that the aceumulation was excellent in i!a
design, ►e would put it to the Boliciter-Oenend whether the
agreement which had been entered into, would secure to the
perishes for which it was intended the benefit of the fund,.
To binned( it was manifest, that if a creditor of the rector
claimed the proceeds, the agreement could sot stand in law.
Re hoped that such steps would be taken as would mike it
yeomanry for parliament itself to originate any pro-
ceedings. _ _ .

Mr. J. A. SMITH felt himself planed in a eery great diffi-
culty, concurring in the objet of the motion, yet being most
reluctant to give pain to the right rev. prelate. There was,
however, one course which appeared to him free from objec-
tion. Believing that the expression of opinion on both aides
of the house would not be lost on the right rev. prelate, he
thought that lithe debate were adjourned fora certain period
a satisfactory route would be arrived at in the meantime.
The hots member concluded by moving that the debate be
now adjourned • but the motion not being seconded, was not
put from the chair.
Mr. WAWN exorcised a hope that the hon. member for
Cnekerinouth would not coolant to withdraw his motion,
until he heard from the noble lord whether there exited en
the part of the government any sincere desire to divide the
revenue. of the rectorship of Bishop Wcarmouth in the mods
that equity pointed out. What security was there afforded
to the parishioner' that this division would be effected ? The
agreement that had been entered into with the rector was
illegal unless it olrained the sanction of parliament. If the
hoe, member divided the house he should vote with him.
Mr. HOUSMAN said that the course taken with respect
to his motion Ey hen. members on both sides of the house
plead him in a somewhat difficult position, and he was cum.
polled to appeal to the kindness and indulgence of the house,
whilst he recalled to mind the circumstances of the case. A
great responsibility rested on him in the present flounce,
because it was not en isolated motion that he had brought for-
ward but one only of a NAM of mot ione,respecting the church.
When he was asked by the noble lord on the opposite aide
to withdraw his motion, he must appeal to the noble lord's
memory whilst he asked him to remember how often the
same appeal had been made to him on previous °cessions of
• similar nature, and also what the result of his compliance
bad been. Last year he bad brought forward a series of
mod ‘ns relative to the subject of ecclesiastical establish-
ments; the house had received them all with the same
unanimity of sentiment that bad been manifested at present,
and he hod been indrord to withdraw them in consequence
of the pledges which he had received from the noble lord at
the head of the government. The noble lord bad given him
distinct pledges on several different occasions. The first mo-
lion he brought forward was for the fusion into one fund of
the episcopal and common funds of the church. The second
motion that he had brought forward was relative to the re-
construction of the ecclesiastical commission. The next woe
respecting the cathedral churches, and the fourth motion was
directed towards the lame objects whisk he now sought to
attain, simply the equitable division amongst the working
elm" of the pariah of BiskerWsumeath of the revenues of
that rieti With valorem' to the first of these
motions, he had rased net to divide the house noon
it, but to withdraw it, mai Nate ems remonstrance, he lad
at lent* estimated is do so. On that oecodos he was re-
ported to have said:

Be had elicited am *Wm OD draft so taunt that it was ha-
=est the issessemst le withstand it. The had (Lod J.
ealy Owl kw tine te aster with the Arehisidrep of Oates-
Ims% ad s elm sot eister to latroctasks meneew ea tile lab.
Jesk let es tame te whit& rtoadtdtnMt MM list emserarre he
=soh. seelellel. Be weed the Wit bed doter edam memos
is ha met be WI me emizhisedtb Islam SO gram
bs wee reedy, shoe esbillregig:
with the hadable. mat Mis
ef hstsodese a het eel,
Wades Me, but Wier sameree gnaw Impennee.—erior.
elsollies dist deed/ from tie it bell, he Ewa we pros his
mid= Is • divides, he Moe the se** must theedefly tad *Ey
is the kende of the eseemseeL

The promise which the noble hod bed given hisa cm that
meg= had not beat Milled, TIOT had tie pledge be ye-
dasmed. And, what was din worse, no lapse hid been as
yet held out to Wes by any member of the government that
any steps were in contemplation by which the noble lord's
repeated pledme should be carried one. On a subsequent
oceselms he lamed for an inquiry into the state of the Wlegi
ate ',maim and cathedrals. Oa that occasion the home
had auk been ananimonsly of opinion that his motion
merited eemidsratim, and under these amiableness he was
again aped to withdraw it, and recommended, say pressed,
ast to posh it to a division. The noble lord (J. Russell) had
again omairred in the views expressed by him, and under
these eireemstances he (Mc Rottman) again consented to
withdraw hie esot'on, in doing which he was reported to have
ned the hawing expreseeems :

After what bed alms hem dm aside lout, namely, that without
gang the tall MO ofimaing a eemmission of inquiry, he admitted
theasessettees and was ready to institute It, thouits not in
tan mile
or =Zia: be carrestly ondentood the noble
killitijftgo that it was inn to good talth,and
wadi ie telyssied R Ita—b, &Mild not be justified in prewar few
the bolt, Os shape be bed reposed, mad he would not trouble
the hems to Wide ea modem
Hen spilt was another promise broken ; another pledge
unredeemed by tbe noble lord.:bleny of th As poisons with
whoa he wen in oonuannicatiun upon tre=e subjects had m-
distal wised bad occurred. They had even told him
that be weal loos the confidence of the public if he acceded
to these dewiest appeals for the withdrawal of his notions.
He wouM be told they were only sham motions, and he wu
warned over sod over again of the consequences of his too eery
credulity in the good faith of those who promis so fairly.
And now, such befog theme, having previously consented to
withdraw his motions,rather than give rise to divisions and dis-
sessions aranngst those who wished well to the muss he hid
taken in hand, he would oak the bane whether he was Mehl
to the imputations which had been east upon him, if, ender