The Express.
London, England, 1848-03-29 00:00:00

• THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 29, 1848,

the point, which could only have the effect of mistingpetition the
petitioner in his own estimation. (Hear.) If the
were rejected, the communes would be that number of I
similar petitions would be sent in. Whateve
would r evil mig
teaht I I
result from receiving the petition, the evil be
times greeter by refuting to receive the prayers of the
Mr. O'CONNOR begged to remind the hon.
memLe:Prer
Montrose, when he spoke of " ignorant chartists," that he I
himself was one of the *even wise men whosehe name was
attached to toe original document, called " T People's I
Charter." It was desirable that the bon. member should ,
express the same sentiments in the home as he did out rat
doom. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUMS said this was a glees misrepresentation. He
was not one who adapted his language to the occasion, se did
many others. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said there was no
cwt to pre-
vent any hon. member from expressing en opini hat the
Hone of Lord' ought to be abolished ; but not so with the
monarchy,end the expression of an opinion that the monarchy
ought to be abeished would be treasonable. If there was
any doubt as to the propriety of receiving this petition, they
ought to decide in its favour. The only true conservative
course was to court public opinion of all shad, evet
most extreme.
_Cline, hear).
Dr. BO WRING said that nothing could be more perilous
in days lake these than to reject the petitions of the people.
Mr. N EWDEGATE oppond the reception of the petition.
Mr. WAKLEY complained that the right hon. baronet
(Sir R. H. Inglis) had imputed to him an agreement in every
sentiment of the petition. He agreed in a greet measure
with its prayer, but not in that part which related to
House of Lords, curving that under our form of goverment
more liberty might be enjoyed than under any other. (Cheers.)
lie felt it due to himself and his constituents to make this de-
claration boldly. Under our form of government
libeber t believed
that British subjects might enjoy every desirable y. He
I should be glad if no more petitions were sent to him ; for he
was convinced their presentation was utterly useless. He
was unacquainted with the petitioner in this case, bet
the petition being respectfully worded he thought it kit
duty to present it. In general, the subject of any of the
petitions presented to this house was nut known to ten
members.
Mr. AGLIONBY protested against the statement that the
petitions of the people were not respectfully treated in that I
house. (Hear, hear.) It was out
titio of oh
rder for any hon.
member to state, on presenting a pen, whether or not he
agreed in its prayer. Ia the vo e he should give he was
only determined by a wish not to abridge the right of peti-
tion ; and he thought this petition sternly within that right
Mr. LABOUCHERE hoped that the question would net I
be forced to a division, otherwise their votes might be is.
understood. He was confident that all were determined le
maintain and uphold the great fundamental principles et
the constitutioa—Queen,Lords, and COMloollll—under which
more liberty and right had been enjoyed than undo,
any other form of government. (Hear, hear.) He meant
to vete for the petition being received, however widely he I
might differ from its prayer : the petition being respectfully
worded, he should not oppose its reception on account of its
prayer. (Hear, hear.) No one would oppose a petition
praying for the abolition of the established church. 'f o ask
for the abolition of the monarchy was a eery different thing;
but in this case the public interest would beet be c-..nsulted
by receiving the petition. (Hear, bear.)
Mr. R. PALMER said the house had on several occasions
received petitions fur the repeal of the legislative union
the with
Ireland—a matter less within its competency than one
now before the house. He hoped the question would not be
pressed to a division. If it was, he should support the peti-
tion being received.
Sir R. INGLIS said he had heard with no common plea-
sure, from all sides of the house, a repudiation of the elm
trines contained in the petition, as far as the House of Lords
was concerned; and his object being thus substantially
gained, in eliciting Iron the house an expression of its
unanimous opinion that such a course would bed estructierial
t" No, No, no," from several members on th minist
tenches). Sir R. Inoue here sat down, intimating that he
should divide the house ; but on the Sl•Ellint putting the
me scion, no division was called for, and the petition was
ordered to lie on the table.
THE EVICTIONS IN GALWAY.
Sir G. GREY said he might perhap• be permitted to refer
to a case which had been mentioned ea a former evening, by
the hon. member for Stroud (Mr. I'. Scrope). He had that
morning received a private letter from his noble blend the
Lord-Lieutenent of Ireland,stisting that he had seen the notice
taken of that case in the house! and expressing sti e,
rpri in
which he (Sir G. Grey) participated, that his right hod.
friend (Sir W. Somerville) and himself should hare been
ignorant that menures in reference to this ewe had actually
been taken by the Irish government; for it was the noble
lord's firm conviction th.t information of the proceedings
taken by the government had been addressed to the Home
ottlest some time ago. That letter must have lit en accidentally
lust, for it had certainly never reached him (Sir G. Grey);
and his right hon. friend (Sir W. S ,merville) had assured
t inn that, uutil the preceding night, he had n-t received any
answer to the communication he had addressed to Mr.
Redington on the subject. He felt it due to the Lord-
Lieutenant, after the reproach that had been can on the
Irish government, to state the steps that had been taken
in the matter, whereby the noble lord would be acquitted of
any neglect, or any indifference to the outrage. At the moment
he heard of the case, which was before the statements appeared
in the newspapers, for it was first brought to the knowledge
of the poor-law commissioens,—he determined to take those
measures which it was competent to him to adopt for a
thorough investigation of the facts, and for the punishment,
if possible, of the parties who had been guilty of the cruelties
alleged. Considerable but unavoidable dolly took place,
owing to the circumstance of Capt. Mud, who was deputed
to make the requisite inquiries, being seized with typhus
fever, which unfortunately terminated in his death. Major
bl'iiie was appointed to succeed him ; an inquiry was di-
rected to be teken upon oath ; and the result was before the
house. Immediately after that report had been brought un-
der the notice of the Lord-Lieutenant he had submitted the
whole ease to the law OffiOtill j and they were of opinion that
the government could nut legally institute a criminal prose-
cution against the parties. The next step which the lord
Lieutenant took was to intimate his opinion to the Lord-
Chase:eller—Mr. Blake being a magistrate—that his name
should-be removed from the commission of the peace. (Hear,
hear.) The Lord Chancellor had not immediately acted on
that suggestion, but, adopting his invariable practice, had
transmitted a statement of the case to Mr. Blake, thus
affording him the opportunity of explenation. (Hear.) For
a length of time no explanation had been received from Mr.
Blake, and when it did arrive at last it was considered un-
satisfactory, and Mr. Blake's name had been struck off the
commission. Another person also implicated in the transac-
tion, Mr. St. George, a member of that house, but who was
now abroad, had been called upon for an explanation, but
no answer bad yet been received. This would convince the
house that the cue had not escaped the observation of the
Irish government, and that the noble lord had taken all the
measures which it was competent to take in order to ex-
press his tense of the promediug. (Hear, hear.)
ELECTION RECOGNISANCES BILL.
Mr. S. WORTLEY rose to move the second reading a
'h a bill, but Mr. Hume and Mr. Bank's, who bad nodal,
on the paper, baying refused to resign their right to prece-
dence, the bill was postponea.
EXPENSES OF THE RAILWAY COMMISSION.
Mr. BANKES then rose to move, "Tint in the opinion
of this house the powers, rights, and authority now vested
by the act 9 and 10 Vic. c. 105, in the commissionersof
railways, may be so regulated as to secure th,ir efficient
execution at a greatly. diminished rate of charge . erne the
public." He complained that the railway oommiesion had I
no duties to perform, because the act of parliament which I
Was to regulate their proceedings had not been proposed to
the house after the bill of the right hon. President of the',
Railway Rend had been withdrawn. Under these circum-
stances ha thought the sooner the commission was donew aay
with the better. The authority proposed to be given to
them was most arbitrary and vexatious. He thought they
had sufficient experience of the railway commission
to justify them in coming to the conclusion that I
it was more an evil than anything else. Its con- I
stitution was most expensive. The expenses of the
railway department when it was connected with the Board
of Trade did not exceed 1,9721. But in the first year of the
present commission it cost the country no less than 17,0001.
That was an amount quits disproportionate, to any benefit
derived from the Railway Board. He thaugnt they could
easily save the country this expense in a great measure by
transferring back the railway department to the Board of
Trade. The right hon. gentleman who was appointed to I
the head of the raiieay commission was not a member of
that house, and he believed that it was essential for the head
of that department that he should have a seat in that house.
There woes president and vice-president of the Board of Trade,
both of whom had seats in the house, and he believed they hat
sufficient time at their disposal, in consequence of the free-
trade measures, to attend to the railvety department. But
if they bed not, a small increase might be made in that de-
partment, which would enable them to do the business to the
satisfaction of the public. He thought the government
would do well to adopt his motion, because matters could not
re as they were.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
it was desirable that the utmost practical economy should be
serried out in this department. (Hear, hear.) With re-
gard to the origin of the board, the hon. gentleman seemed
to.forget that tbere were three reports recommending the
constitution of such a body, and the bill for this purpose
had the almost unanimous support of that house. (Hear,
hear.) With regard to the expenses, the hon. gentleman
was in error in saying that they amounted to 17,0001. The
actual expenses were only 12,0001; He regretted that his
tight hon. friend (Mr. Strutt) was net then in the house, as
he would be able to give the hon. gentleman a MOM detailed
account of the expenditure. The hon. gentleman seemed to
forget the great services performed by the Railway Board
in preparing reports for the guidance of committees. The
business of that board was greatly on the increase. At the
present time the business transacted amounted to more than
one-third the whole business done in the course of list year.
His right hon. friend (Mr. Strutt) had been appointed to
the bead of the board from his acquaintance with the pri-
va business end standing orders of the house. As soon as
the report of the Derby Macedon Committee had been made,
he placed his resignation in the hands of his noble friend,
feeling that it was essential for the had of the railway
department to have a seat in the house. His noble friend
being of the same opinion accepted that resignation, however
reluctantly. The government then had to determine whether
they would fill up that place, and they came to the conclu-
sion not to fill up the place vacated by Mr. Street. It was
not their intention, therefore, at present to appoint any suc-
cessor to that gentleman. (Hear, hear.) They would ap-
point a member of the Booed of Trade se an unpaid com-
missioner to the office; and they would then see, by
expel
reset, how the business of the railway department
coul4 be
conducted in that way. If the committee that wet them sit-
ting reported aa advisable that it would be expedient still
further to reduce the expenses of that department, the go-
vernment would readily unite. The government wen
reedy to rodeos the ; but he did not see thee

▪ Sir J. GRAHA it thouiht his hon. friend opposite (Sir R.
H. Inglis) had unintentionally placed the Speaker in an in-
✓idious position, in se. king from him a decision as to whe ether
or not the house ought to entertain this petition.
hear.) The Speaker ought to be relieved from being c died
upon to decide h.tily a question of this kind, which it was
the province of the house itself to determine.
At this stelae of the discussion, Sir Augustus Clifford,
Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, appeared at the tablethe,
and summoned the house to attend in the House of Peers,
to hear the royal assent given by commission to several bithe
lls.
The SPEAKER having returned, end announced
bills which had received the royal assent (for a list of which
see the Lords' report), the dismission on the petition was
resumed.
Mr. W AKLEY said h• believed it was the pleasure of tbe I
house that he should read the petition. (" No,
no
noth ," "
eb
The
prayer.")• So far as he could judge, there WAS ing
jectioaable ie the manlier in which the petitioner had ex-
pressed his views, though the prayer of the petition might
be very objectionable to many members of that house.
Mr. HUME mid he would move that the petition should
be brought up and read at the table, and then, if it con-
tained any objectionable matter, it would be competent for
any hon. member to object to it.
The SPEAKER mid it was for the house to decide whe-
ther the petition was regular, and whether it ought to be
brought up. It could not be brought up if it contained any-
thing against the privileges, or contrary to the forms of the
house.
Sir R. H. INGLIS said he objected to the petition being
received. The hon member for Finsbury had read a passage
which the house certainly ought not to receive. He moved
that the petitioe should be rejected, and he would not
shrink from airy consequence which might follow from pur.
ruing that course.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said the petition ought to be
formally before the house, to enable them to decide on its
reception or rejection.
Mr. WAKLEY, with the permission of the house, would
read the passage. (Hear, hear). The words were—" the
abolition of the House of Lords—your petitioner considering
one assembly of ropy sentatives, duly elected, sufficient for
national purposes." There could be no mistake in the ex-
pression here u•ed. The petition also contained the folio* -
mg prayer : " Your petitioner is extremely desirous o
on f seeing
all these measure* carried out, believing the positi of the
country to he such that, unless they are, a convulsion must
ensue that would bury in one common ruin all the institu-
tions wh eh are now the envy of foreigners, but a contiernual
source of evil to the people of this nation." (Laueht.l
The hon. member then handed in the petition, and moved
that it should he received.
Sir ft. H INGLIS said that, in his judgment, the petition
ought not ti he r. crived.
Mr. HUME would move that the whole of the petition
should be read—(No, no)—otherwise the house could not
fairly judge of its eff,ct.
Sir 0. GREY said as there was only one 'mune which he
understood VI be objected to, he thought it would be taking
up time reelessly to read the whole. lie understood the
passage to be that, in the opinion of the petitioner, it was
desirable the It use of Lords should be abolished, and that
object, along with the others he mentioned, he thought
ought to he carried into effect. Many petitions were pre-
sented expressing opinions in which, perhaps, no individual
member of the house concurredby receiving a peti-
tion, no member was pledged to the opinions it contained.
(Hear, hear.) He understood the practice was that a peti-
tion should be received, if it contained nothing contrary to
the privileges or forms of the house. This petition certainly
did not; and his impree ion, without having had the oppor
tanity of referring to precedents, was, that petitions of the
same nature had been received. It would be attaching too
great importance to it to reject it. (Hear.) Therefore he
hoped the right hon. baronet would not divide the house on
the question. (Hear, hear.)
=Sir R H INGLIS said if a similar and analogous petition
Wad been presented to the. Housed Lore* praying for the abo-
lition of the House of Commons, it would not have been re-
ceived; and neither house would receive a petition praying
for the abolition of the monarchy. Why, then, should this
house be content to receive a petition like this, opposed, as
he believed it to he, to the all hut unanimous feeling, prim•
ciple, and opinion of the house? (Hear, hear.) He would
have been content to let Leis petition expire with the effer-
vescence of the moment, believing that the bubble would
have burst as soon es it had been blown, had not the hon.
member for Finsbury, by his tone and manner, and by a
running commentary upon the petition, invited' to it the
attention of those who had the advantage of hearing what
passed in that house. And as the hon. member had not dis•
owned the sentiments of the petition, but had in a certain
MUM identified himself with them (Mr. Wakley t
"No, no !")—at all events he thought it desirable that mem-
bers on both sides should express their opinion whether it
was consistent with the public interest to encourage this
species of petition.
Mr. HUMS said the house would surely not refuse a peti-
tion because the petitioner differed with them in opinion.
Instead of that, they ought to open the door as widely as
possible far the reception of sentiments differing from their
own. They did not want petitions expressing the same opinions
as their own, but those that differed from them. In this case
the petition was not signed by any isrnorant chartist—(great
laughter)—as some might expect, but by a gentleman w
watho
had been educated at the university, and who
new a clergyman of the church of England.
If once they commenced reiusing the petitions of the people,
when was the line to be drawn ? It was a dangerous pre-
cedent to set; and if any one was afraid of the establish-
ment of a republic, they ought above all things to advocate
this petition being received.
Sit J. GRAHAM was es anxious as anyone to offer no
obstruction to the presentation of petitions. He did not go
the full lee gth of the hon. member for Montrose; nor did
he think it would be consistent with loyalty or respect for
the privileges of the house to receive a petition asking for a
change in the form of government. (Hey.) He thought
that no petition ought to be received asking for a change in
that form of government, which consisted of queen, lends,
and commons ; nor ought they to sanction such a proceeding
by allowing the petition to be laid on the table of the house.
Mr. BRIGHT asked whether it had not been the custom
for the house to receive petitions praying for the removal of
the bishops from the House of Lords ? And, as the House
Of Lords was composed of temporal and spiritual peers, why
might they not revive a petition for the abolition of the
whilst ? He had no sympathy with the object of the petition,
and did set think it Worth while to rams any dimension on

then would be any advantage in condo( to the moieties
reseed the bon. geetkmen, in the spirit of which,
how-
ever, they concurred.
M. MII N congraelated the house on the apeeeh of
the right leo. gimtleman. It was not his desire to take
away the supervision of the government, or to weaken the
power which they passaged over different railway wimple
was, but he thought that more economy
instance way he
which unnecessary clanse was incurred, be would meadow
to the house that an anonymens letter having' appeared id
the Times, stating that Mr. Hudson bed detained the train
at Derby, and that en accident had occurred, the commis-
sioners actually cut out the letter, and sent it to the 'secretary
of the company to know what explanation could be given.
Now the fact alleged was perfectly untrue; but when per-
sons were sent about on such slight grounds it was no wonder
that the expenses should be great. There was an old adage
that when persons bad nothing to do, they were sure to do
mischief, and that was the case with regard
mo to the railway
board. He believed that one man of comn sense and ex.
peeience would be more efficient than shoat of intelligent and
spectable men with salaries of 1,0001.• year each. (Hear.)
It had been his good fortune to be on the best terms with the
Board of Trade, and it was his bounden duty to say that that
bard exicuted,the business of railways far better than the
existing coaunission. He was sure that • large and • very
important Sevin might be effected by the abolition of the
board.
Mr. V. SMITH said the tendency of the hon. member's
speech was to get rid of en supervision and control. (No,
no.) For hi. part he thought supervision absolutely neces-
sary for the sake and safety of the public. lie cared not
whether ft was in the Board of Trade, or any other autho-
rity; but control, he felt assured, was the one thing wanting..
Mr. GLADSTONE thought it necessary that, before all
things, they should remember that the question now was
not whether there should be some sort of control, but whe-
ther the present description of control should
had continud, e.,
He sincerely. wished, after what he hear
he could desire the withdrawal of this motion. But
he thought there was something primarily wrong in the ex-
isting system. The act proceeded on the supposition that
government woe to exercise s very great control ; but the
limits of that control were not &flied before the commission
was appointed. The consequence wee a failure. Powets
were demanded which the house refused to give; and it was
clear that, at this time, thou powers would not be conceded.
Then, if parliament was not prepared to give those powers,
they were not justified
ditto maintaining the authority which
was originally deeigne carry them into effect. For his
own part he could not at all understand why the Board of
Trade should not undertake all this business. That depart-
ment was by no means overcharged with hairier. This
very year it had happened that the President of the Begird
of Trade had conducted all the parliamentary badmen et
the Colonial-office in the absence of the member for Kim*
and surely, if he had time fur that, he could find time fee
the business of railways. The duties now divided be-
tween the President and the Via-President of the
Board of Trade, the Master of the Mint, and the
Chief Commissioner of lisilways were all at one time per-
formed by his right hon. friend the member for Dover.
There was every prospect that the business would be • still
easier than it was wont to be, and that it might be executed
with perfect cue and satisfaction in one or two apartment.
of the Board of 'lade.
Mr. HUME said it was quite refreshing to hoar such ad-
vocacy of economy. lie hoped they should havh. e man
had
y re-
petitions of the right hon. gentleman's speec lie
weed to the appointment of the commission under the
strong impression that further powers were requisite and
ought to be given ; but he had now arrived t tes conclud
-
sion that the deportment might properly merge in the Boar
of Trade. After what had pained he hoped the commission
would be broken up as a matter of course.
Mr. F. T. BARING quite concurred in the statement that
1 this board had been constituted with the expectation t hat a
greater control over railways should be vested in it; and if
those powers were not to he given, certainly the machinery of
the board was much too intricate and costly for existing
purposes. But his impression wu, that a time e might come
be
when en extension of the powers of this board t
demanded. His impression certainly was, that it was in-
judicious to vest railway business in the Board of
it
Trade.
By having the business in one office be thought c.iuld
be much more satisfactorily tran-acted than by vesting it in
a variety of elite-rent authorities.
Sir J. GRAHAM did not think that this was the fit
opportunity for considering whether a new office should be
created. The time had come when all needless expenditure
ought to be checked. (lieu, hear.) It was quite clear
that two years ago they had created a new office without
delegating to it the performance of any duties whatever.
This was not the fault of parliament or of the government ;
but the error had now been detected, and it was time that
they should correct it.
washTe hon. member for Montrose,
every one would agree, one of the most honourable and
honest men in the house. During his long parliamentary
carevr no one could say that the hon. member ever sought for
himself any situation of honour, place, or profit, whatso-
ever. But the hon member had his hobbies, and the
Railroad Board WWI one of them.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said it was almost a matter of 101-
possibility to please the house on the subject
fofr th roil-
e
way legislation. Whatever plan was proposed o
improvement of the system, some other plan was sure to be
suggested. His great objection to the motion of the bon.
member for Dorsetshire was that it prejudged a question
upon which the fullest information would ere long be pre- I
rented to parliament, it being the intention of the Railway
Board before or immediately after Easter to lay a detailed
report before parliament, exhibiting what the board had
steady done—and he thought its duties would be found to I
have been more arduous than mu imagined—and to make
the suggestions which, upon mature consideration, it was
prepared with as to future leg elation upon the subject. He I
doubted very mch the advantage of merging the duties of
thisb commissionu altogether in the Board of Trade. lie did
not shrink from any additional labour which might beans
be thrown upon himself—he believed he might say it
had never manifested any disposition to avoid labour
in the public service, any desire to secure an easy pen
for himself—(hear, hear)—hut he thought that such an al-
teration would not work well. The house might rely upon
it that the class of duties in question were not to be properly
performed by a few extra clerks at low salaries ; they re. I
quired men of great skill and of high and established reputa-
tion. He would rot meet the hon. gentleman with a direct
negative, for the motion was a fit one to be considered
re
upon
the full information which would shortly be placed befo
the house ; but he would call upon the house to proceed to
the previous question.
Sir H. VEIINEY urged the necessity of long notice in
legislating upon this important subject.
The house divided—For 6
the previous question 75
Against it 5-19
PRINTING OF PARLIAMENTARY PAPERS.
Mr.IIUME moved" That it be referred to the Speaker and
the committee for printing of papers, to consider and to report
Ito the house whether any and what improvement can be
' made in the printing and the ingroesing of bills."
Lord MAHON, as a member of the printing committee,
had no objection to the inquiry sought • but as to the suppo-
sition that any economy would be effected by printing the
parliamentary papers in 4to instead of in folio, the expense
on the contrary would be enhanced.
Sir 0. GREY regarded the motion as calculated to lead
to very beneficial results.
The motion was then agreed to.
ELECTION RECOGNISANCES BILL.
Mr. J. B. WORTLEY moved the second reading of this
bill. lie urged the necessity of no longer delaying to with-
draw from that house the discretion as regarded legal paints,
which now so often lead to collisions with the courts of law.
It was admitted on all bands that some legislation on the
subject
wouldy Doubtless whatever course might be
taken be surrounded with difficulties, but no diffi-
culties would be so great as those which pervaded the pre-
sent system. The act of 7 & 8 Vict. had been in owe
respect found defective ; the case of recognisance' was
altogether a camas 'minus there, so that no parties proceed-
ing in election committees, whether the petitioners or the
petitioned, went upon any clear or certain principle. Recogni-
sances were not idle forms, but were provided as securities for
the prosecution of any petition entered against any member.
The 7 & 8 Vic. did not neglect the subject of reeoguisances,
but, going further than 28 Geo. 111., provided that petitions
should not even be received, unless' recognisance' were pre-1
viously entered into ; but the defect of this act, which he '
now sought to remedy, was, that it provided no practical
means of trying the validity of the recognisance, so given.
His proposal, differing in this respect from that of the hon.
member for Midkurst, was to give the committee to whom
the petitions were referred power to amend the recogni-
sance., in cases which they deemed fitting. What he had
to propose sou, that the first clause and the schedule referred
to in it be altogether omitted, inserting a clause making the
bill universal instead of temporary. His second proposition
was, that instead of sending beck the petitioners to enter
into fresh recognisance., the bill would give power to the
committee to entertain the preliminary objections to the
recognisance., and else to decide upon their legality • an-
other, that it the recognisance' were found invalid end that
by the lathes of the petitioners, then that no Slither pro-
ceedings be gone into. But that if the rthognisances
were invalid owing a the fault of the examiner,
then that the petitioners should have power to make
them good. There would also be granted a power to
the committee to proceed to make the recognisance' good
forthwith. Under the present system the officer of the
h.Goo..usiicarpassid
had intimated,
aTtedhcete,
therigs uheth
otheral hon.n
gobarohlt„awyntheletrothpwprieitedpropipsro-oir,
salons were rejected by the committee unanimously. Now,
the committee was not unanimous, for his hon. friend the
member for Abingdon was absent when the division was
come to. The reason alleged for rejecting the propositions
was, that, if adopted, they might lead to conflicting d
sions. That was a difficulty to which all judi-
cial bodies were liable ; but an election commit-
tee was the only form of judicial proceeding which
the house was I possessed of, and moreov.r their deci-
sions could not be conflicting, because the circumstances of
no two petitions were the same. If the bill which he sure
mitted was agreed to, the hope would hereafter avoid
coming into conflict with the courts of law, and under these
—.tenets he begged to move that it be read a second

gilt erpreo.

MAILS.
The mails for New South Wales, VIM Diet:lllll'6 Land, and New
Zealand will be made up on the evening of the Slat March.
The mina for the West Coast of Mika and Madeira will be made
up on the evening of the 31st March.
The West India Mails, including Bermuda, Neiman, Cayenne,
Condor., New (Meow, Vera Cruz, Tampico, end Porto Ri
Marthaco, snd,
excluding those for Madeira, Jame', Carthagena, or
Charts, Punama, West Coast of South Amenes, and St. luau-de-
Nicaragua, will he made up on the evening of the Ist Aprb.
The overland mails lot Gibraltar, Malta, Greece, the lonian Islands,
Egypt, Aden, Ceylon, India, lions-Kong, and China, era Southamp-
ton, will be made up on the morning of the 3rd April.
The mails for the Brazils, the River Plate, Monte Video, Cerium-
buso, Bahia, Medtira, and Buenos Ayres, will on made up on the
evening of the 4th April.
The mails for Viten, Oporto, Lisbon, Madeira,. Cadiz, and Gibraltar
will by made up on the morning of the 7th April.
The overland ciceed malls, tin Marseilles, to the Mediterranean,
Egypt, Aden, Ceylon, Imha, lioag-Kong, lee., will be made up on the
evening of the 7th ApriL
The malls for Brinsh North America, and the United States,
will be made up en the evening of the 7th Aprll.

NOTICE TO ADVERTISERS.
The number of STAMPS issued to the DAILY NEWS
by the authorities of the Stamp-office, during 1847, was:
From Jew. 1, to Dec. 31 .... 3,447,009
This, we believe, is within eigla pew cent. of the number
issued to the Morning Herald, Morning chronicle, and
Morning Post, ALL POT TOOETHRIL
In addition to the above, issued to the DAILY NEWS,
Morning Paper, there were issued for the Evening Edition,
TIRE EXPRESS,
From JAN. 1, to Dec. 31
Which was more, we believe, than were issued either to
the Globe or Standard, Evening Papers.

TO CORRESPONDENTS.
• ..di... tots tatraded for "The Zapata: L
oaando. ttealny mast
• Ad.
'be at tleollett PI, 16011.118.11.. by Two lm We of pub lumen.

111011 WATER LT LONDON BRIDGE.
Tan DAT—XII4.ISg, 5 951. put 9, Muume,,4s l. past 5
To-soi9ow—llong99,3lmba.p.o 9, Attlf•0011. I: 11. pan lu.

LONDON,WEDNESDAY,MAR. 29.
Diu any dangerous or unquiet symptoms continue
to agitate the public mind, we should still defer, as
we have hitherto done, the proposal or discussion of
plans of innovation or reform. Bat it is sufficiently
proved, that England for the present has no politi-
cal effervescence likely to break forth in any other
way of manifestation, than that of speech and of the
press. Indeed, the contrast which this try count now
offers with others, suffices to prove that it is a
system of compression or repression by govern-
ment, which produces that fearful unanimity
of discontent in all classes, which renders
revolution at once awful and irresistible. Wherever
thought is developed, and the full freedom of its ex-
pression allowed, there springs up such a variety of
sentiment, that, whilst discussion is ever so lively, and
even distress and discontent general, such a thing as
revolution is neither desired nor dreamt ot

time.
Mr. BERNAL said the committee manifested great
unanimity on the propositions of his right hon. friend. Whea
he (Mr. J. 8. Wortley) asserted that no conflicting deci-
sions could in future arise, he might be right,
but he ought to recollect that every decision became
a precedent, and was followed as such. He would
never consent to give such a power as was contained in the
proposed bill to a committee of five gentlemen up stairs.
The questions which would have to be decided by them were
of net importance, and as little as possible of law ought to be
submitted to election committees. He was ready to admit
that the last statute of 7 & 8 Vict. was deficient in some
respects, but general declaratory act would cure that evil,
sad NAN to roman it mom stnagoat respect to rocog-

oteencos. Rather, therefore, thaa pug snek • arniritre as Amidst allthis,however, it is impossible not to
that recommended by his right boa. friend, he was disposed discern that the tolerance and the division of opinion
ear that • gensval explanatory bill ought to be brought in amongst the middle classes are much greater than
by which the duties of the examiner of recogniaanees would
amongst the lower. And it is notorious that there exist
be more dearly donned.
Lord MIX ON up
of the tight hon. gentleman, the member for Bu ,ts for it in a common sentiment--that a portion of this senu-
reseed his intention to rapport the Mill large masses of the latter who have become united.
• f middle classes—and that it
member tor Illidharst, which he had opposed. What the
' quite a different one from that of the hon. and learned
entertains the purpose, though that purpose yet exists
ment is, distrust o the
P"mat bill proposed to effect wee' t° give the honest P but as a theory, to do what the Finesse—and
have done,
viz., found a govern
and this was • (good said • proper object to effect. The
with .
ideas,government and a constitution, imbued
Honer an oppormn_, for rendering his recognisance, veld,
hon. member for Rochester objected to granting power the and exclusively devoted to the interests,
that obioctioo applied to the whole system of election cum- of the operative classes. The existence of such a
to election committees to decide upon !eget questions, but
least
sect is natural and fair. Nor is there the
mittees, and he for one bad never approved out thebtweient use in either slighting it, or in seeking to crush
system. If the hon. member for Rochester wouldhirsing i
neutralising it, and absorbing the poison that
such a bill es be had described, he should have (Lord it by anathemas. The only way of meeting it,
Mahon's) hearty _support.
Sir G. GREY said that though he was quite indifferent lurks in it, is, for the middle classes to
as to what decision the house might come to, he still mutt
say • few words on the motion of the right hon. and learnedd c :me forward themselves, to unite, if necessary, or,
d at least, to have a common understanding, and to
show to the other classes, above and below 'hem, that
he and buses and
alter ceiling the whole of its enactive clauses, they have a keen sense of e errors a ,
comemmber
offer
adßuoitettingwho. hawdstftokeonr.
thsterayunprbeieedll, enau .
alteraiedof the bad parts of the existing system, the chief erf
mbreotuiLht
,i)ti
which certainly is, the want of care evinced by the
the house. Hooch a course of legislation was to be per-
employer ler the employed. I
ardineeanitid°greceontatimreetyndedfreihit ofonr", thehaa
per-
muted, could not foresee the results. The coons recom
°mended would, if adopted, odultify their former proceeding,. In fine and in fact, the middle class of Englishmen'
Why did net the right hon. and learned gentlemen conform should put forward their Charkr, if, at some critical
to the rules of the house, and bring in a new bill ?,Be begged period, they wish to avoid being altogether set
against the
to say that he should vote motion.
the
aside and trodden down, as the middle class
Sir R. INGLIS said that on a recent occasion e
house was Wiled
on to divide on tne word " that," but on of Frenchmen have been in the late revo-
p nt occasion they were called on to vote on a sheet of laden. It is for the middle c lass to bethink
blank paper, for, with the exception of the preamble (which them, what they would have, what they would
was not an enacting part of the bill), and the clause giving do, what remedies they would apply to the conetitu-
power to amend in future, the whole clauses of the bill which . •
lion in order to its better working, and in order to
'he mired the house to read a second time were struck out. .
financial orpopular catastrophe, which at
He objected, therefore, to the second reading or • bill or preient any .
which all but five or six lines had been struck out. Be least, and for very securit sake, should be admitted
mow, das an amendment that the bill be read a second time to be amooget the possibilities of things.
that day iix months.
Sir F. Tab:SWIM found a difficulty in dealing with the We would not take gloomy .
a too or alarming view
'question, seeing that his right boo. and teamed friend the of the state of political affairs. Bet still we cannot
member for Butt had told tie house that his object in intro- but perceive, that in its financial affairs, to
clueing the bill was that • totally different measure might be speak of no other, England under its parliament and
framed on it. He (Sir F. Thesiger) was of opinion that constitution his reached in 1848 the same embarras-
some legi•lation on the subject we- absolutely necessary. On .n
• former oocasion the house had decided that the best mode g
sin and dangerous full stop that the monarchy of
of proceeding was to refer the matter to • select comMttee. LOUlSmrlement 1
XVI. reached in 1787. The ,
lie believed that that was • proper course, but that the of Paris at that time refused to register at new tax.
house had erred in not giving the committee greater powers. The parliament of 1848 has made the same declare-
it appeared to him that there were only three courses open lion. And Lord JOHN RUSSELL has withdrawn his
to the house with reference to tin suhject. (A. laugh.) The
• ht either do noth'ng, or leave the house to act on each demandwith
a resignation and an embarrassment
m
ease, or they might legislate finally on the subject. To do which very much resemble those of CALONSE, or of
nothing would he feared be highly dangerous, and very likely the Archbishop of Toulouse.
to bring the house into collision with the courtsu of
tlar on We are amongst those who entertain no doubt that
qtastions of. privilege. The next mune we ld beeheave Louts
those question!, to be decided by the house. But th oust • XVI., by choosing and supporting a wise
had already decided that it was itself a moat improper tri- minister, and by sacrificing the prejudices and priei-
bunal for their decision. It then became obvious that legis- Icges of his court and aristocracy, could have pre-
tenon was the only and necessary course. They had before vented a revolution. But we are much more certain
them the bill of the hon. member tor Midhurst. Its author that the ministers of Queen VICTORIA must be pre-
had abandoned his offspring, and the right hon. and learned , ,
member for Bute ht them to give it a second reading in ifice of nvi-
parea to make very considerable sacr a p
order that he might give it en entirely new deem He (Sir lege and prejudice on the part of the higher classes,
F. Thesiger) thought the how* was placed in a difficulty by if this country is to be permanently secured against
the course which ha Men adopted by his right hon. and the results and the example of what is now passing
learned friend ; but he earnestly entreated them to give the upon the continent, joined to the greater difficulties
bill a second reading, witch would be some step towards
practicai and immediate legislation on the subject. and embarrassments which peculiarly beset our own
Mr. HATTER contended the:. the house had no right to financial and social exiatence.
election recognitances except in The government of constitutional England, how-
inquire into the validity of
one or two eases. The bill proposed to introduce a third
case, and to provide that when the reeognisances were defer- ever, . was never able to do much for itself. It his
tire the house might interfere to remedy that detect. The always been driven, and moat now be driven. And
right hon. baronet (Sir It. Feel) had on a former occasion if the active mind and intelligence of the middle class '
laid it down that all questions relating to recogni,ances do not arise to give force and guidance to the
should be bit to the examiner of recognisance+, and the governing powers, the lower classes may take the
merits of the petition to the select committee, and that the
decisions of those two tribunals should be final. That prin- initiative themselves. And this, we do think, would
ciple the house had atfitmed, and lie thought now to change be the most deplorable of human events.
that decision would lead to greater incouventence and in- To obviate such a catastrophe, and to preserve to
I • tj
jus ce thin was now complained of. the middle class that fair and salutary prominence
I Mr. R. PALMER was in favour of legislation on the ' and influence, without enjoying which they will be
I subject. When the house interfered to protect bitting
1 members, it was not to be endured that because or a flaw in
trodden down, and without demanding which they
I the recoguisances the petition should fall to the ground. lie will never enjoy it, what should the middle clausal
I kre wot nothing more destructive. The parties ought to be seek ? We answer, first of all, the completion of the
placed by a short enactment in the same position as they great measure of 1831, the reform of the legislature, '
would have been in bad the recognisances been in the form and the bringing that legislature into accordance with
prescribed by the act, according to the original intention of
the s irit of the age, with the revolutions that have
the petitioners. That would meet every case except the P
Walesil cue, which might be the subject of special enact taken place in our social frame, and with the working
meet. The examiner of recognisance& had been led into the necessities of government.
error by depending too closely on the forms of the act, at.d The
helieving his decision was final, and also by being iu a great electoral franchise should be extended, small
ii. !tree dependent sin
suburdinatee. constituencies done away with, the ballot adopted,
Mr. SHEIL referred to high legal authorities in favour and the principle of population admitted far more
of the opinion that the certificate of the examiner was hue], than at present into the law of representation,
and contended that a tribunal must be appointed to decide • without excluding the paramount claims of property
paint of law which had arisen, and which at present there
was no tribunal to decide upon. Therefore it was that in his and intelligence.
opinion legislation was fleeting. But we do not hesitate to say, that it is not
After a few words from MT. kLATTEIL and Mr. NArtEn, so much the lower house of parliament which
:be ATTORNEY-GENERAL agreed with his right demands reform as the upper house. The House of
hon. friend the member for Oxford that it would be altog*-
ther contrary to the usage of parliament to read the bill a Lords, as at presented constau , thetrue ince us
- ' ted is
second time, in order to alter itfrom beginning to sod; and upon the country ; not the less an incubus or dead
amongst those who were in favour of tlie bill no less than four weight, because it takes itself off from time to time, in
distinct courses were recommended. The bill as it stood order not to stifle outright the nation, which it over-
would do nothing. The anticipated conflict with the courts lies. The evil of the House of Lords consists, not in
cf law could not arise ; for the certificate of the Speaker, if
coats were given, would be final. With regard to the
its acts so much as its character. It is not the good
certau, of the examiner, M. Serjeant iuglake, laws which it rejects that rise in judgment against it,
Mr.ific Forjent Wranghatn, and Mr. Cowl King, no but the good laws which it prevents from ever seeing
mean authority, had decided that it was tin .1. the light.
He considered that the amendments proposed would only
create delay and impose upon the petitioners the as pi s sit When any one political measure is to be contem-
. .
keeping witnesses in town while the matter was pi utling• plated or desired, what is the first thought? Will it
Re must here
oppose the bill. be accepted by the House of Lords ? Whenever a
Mr. BANKES did net agree with the hon. and learned ministry is to be formed, or a party constituted in order
gentleman that because there was great difficulty in the case, to its
one day forming a ministry, the spectre that
a,.d because four remed:es hod been proposed, none ought to
bc granted. (Hear, hear.) lie had voted again2t tile pro. appears on the very threshold, and peremptorily for-
either be
position of the hen. and learned member for blidhurst be- bids •th
to genuinely and sincerely liberal, is e
cause he had felt it to be ineufficent, but would now vote for House of Lorde. Why have we at this moment in
the bill, as amended, because he believed it would afford a the Horse of Commons no liberal pasty capable of
remedy. taking the reins of government with the force, the ta-
Sir J. GRAHAM felt disposed to follow the attractive ad- lent, and
the confidence that a government of this
-
✓im of the Judge Advocate and the Attorney General, and
do nothing. (A laugh.) Us wall for staying where they country ag o ht to have ? The House of Lords is the
were, fearless altogether of the threat which had been held cause.
out, that, by proceeding in that legialation, novelty, in the
Why have the whigs the monopoly of power with-
way of a prohibition, might come upon them from the
courts of law. lie should deeply regret aco iision
1.• • between out the capacity to exercise it ? Why are they on
that house and the courts et law, but be did not hesitate to theirknees to EtL, anPEEL onhisknees to era
P ' d
say, if such a prohibition were to be inued, the Speaker And why, if they want to pass a semi-liberal mea-
would dieregard it. (Hear, hear.) lie must therefore vote sure, are they obliged to sneak aud dissemble, and
play like bays at pneon bars, one at either side of the
for the amendment of the Secretary of State.
Mr. ANSTEY would vote for the second reading of the
bill, reserving to himself the right of opposing the amend- table? Because the House of Lords with a rod stands
mints in committee. over both, and can unbreech and flog either of the
Mr. S. WORTLEY said a few words in reply, and premiers in a moment. Why is there no popblar
The house divided—For the second reading ll2 „ party, no radical party, in parliament ? Why is it
Against it BO-3' that the moment a new or clever man gets elected
The bill was then read a second time.
adjou
se rned at minutes 2t) to 12 o 'clock. on the strength of radical or popular opinions—
The hou - why is it that he deserts them the moment he gets
into the house? Because the House of Lords forbids
power to fall in'o other than aristocratic hands • and
such a man as JAMES WILSON might linger on radical
beaches all his life without satisfying that very na-
tural desire of office and occupation which a clever
man may entertain without any base motives. We
to 11 the middle classes of England that they never
will have a party in the House of Commons as long as
the House of Lords remains what it is. The first
step, then, for the middle class and for the popular
tv is, to demand the reform of the House of
Mils.
And if we point out and recommend such a re-
form, we do not do it in envy of an upper class, or
denial of, or hostility to, their many great and salu-
tary claims. But we are confident that the only way
to preserve an upper class in possession of its fair
privileges is to curtail it at once of its impure and
invidious advantages, and to give its political influence
a new basis, more in accord with the spirit and
reason of the time.
The present position of the House of Lords we I
cannot bat look urn as mast dangerous to itself and
to the country. there it stands, a dam across the
great current of popular opinion, which is forced to
rise to the volume of almost an ocean ere it can get
a single drop to overflow the aristocratic barrier.
When, however, the popular waters do reach their level,
when they do sarmount the obstruction led overcome '
the resistance of the upper house, then, indeed, po-
pular opinion rushes over it in a torrent, bearing
everything before it with the violence of a revolution.
The next day, however, the dam is rebuilt, and the
popular current, spent, and run off, is left to collect
and fill its reservoir again.
Thus do the Lords timidly pass all great measures
of liberalism and reform, whilst they totally exclude
la others, no matter of what vital importance,
I unless public agitation and effervescence swell
1 these questions to a certain magnitude. There thus
1 meta in the conatry a continued prime on agitation,
Iwe might almost say a premium on revolution. All
moderate and gradual and requisite reforms are
I meshed, extingwahed as aortic)r s in the statesmen's
mind. So that the only way or hope of bringing a
reform about is by aggravating the abuse, or letting
it aggravate itself until it is too abominable for
tolerance, and then it has a chance of being mended.
Some portion of the blame of this is left on the House
of Commons, and much upon ministers, who are eter- I
welly accused of laziness, timidity, of trimming, of
being neither fish nor flesh, wanting alike in firmness
and in principle. All these vices in all our ministers
and ministries are, we repeat, not the fault of the
men, but of the system, and of the head and front of
that system, the Idotuie of Lords.
How, and in what shape, a reform of our aristocratic
chamber should be proposed, shall form the subject
of future consideration.