The Express.
London, England, 1853-03-10 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMEN
HOUSE OF COMMON:.—WEI/Nu...MAY, MAecn 9.
The Seamiest took the chair at 12 u'cluck.
THR ELECTION PETITION COALEITTEE FOR
SOUTHAMPTON.
Mr. 11. HERBERT, the chairman of this committee.
Tem:uteri teat Robert Edmund !Meer hail refaced to gad
evidesce before the committee, and that he had by direc-
ted of the committee committed the met Robert Edmund
Bawer loth., custody of the Sergeant-at-Arius, to await t:.e
pismire of the house.
PRIVATE BUSIN
GREAT LONDON DRAINAGE LILL.
Mr. M. GIBSON moved the *mewl reading of this bill.
Sir B. HALL said this was a most important bill, end he
bad hoped that he should have been ablesupported
the seem% reading, but there were certaio ,:enses in the
bell which be would venture to wa Lad nev ben ham-
dated into• prisete bill before. The competer e were to con-
struct two great sewers, one en the north tad the other on
the south osie of the Themes. and they proposed to eonvert
the sewerage into manure. But the ball actud4 contained
• clause that if they did not get a sulticient return
is pay them 3 per cent. they wee,: to tax the metropolis
to make up that 3 per cent., which d, ficiency was to be
paid out of the sewers rate. So that this ,„mpaGy eaue
forward as a speculating company, and if the speculation
failed the r itepayin were to make it un. He had had u
geed deal of conversation with the promoters of the b.ll,
who told him they would not strike out the guarantee
vans, ; and that if it were stench oat, they would tot pro-
wed with the bill. He thought it better to postpone the
measure for a time, and he therefeee moved that the further
consideration of it be postponed until Wednesday, the 6th
Of
April.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS seconded the amendment. He
thought the bill istagla to be postponed, in order to give the
motropolisin parishes an opportunity of cossidering the
details. Ile believed some objections had been made to it
by several perishes. If them obj:ctions wart obviated.
facilities might he given for passim., the L.:1; but he could
not think it could be allowed to pass in its present shape.
Mr. H. OIBSON said be had Len used to move the
second reading of the bill, and he bad not consented to do
so without consideration. This was a great public work
that must be done by somebody. The metroptiis must he
drained. A question was put to the Secretary of State fur
the Hume Department, whether it was the intention of go-
vernment to introduce any measure fur the purpose of en-
abling the present commissioners of sewers to b now money
ea the security of the rates ; sad the noble lord (Lord Pal
merstun) replied that that depended very much on • private
enterprise undertaken by an emaciation of capitalist', who,
if he was rightly informed, intended to bring in a bill to
maresuct two great arterial sewers, one to the north and
the ether to the south of Leaden, and that if that project
should be approved by parliament it wont I render any loan
maseermery. It appeared, therefore, that if this company of
sapitalists did not come (award the csnamissioners of sewers
would be prepared to undertake this great public work, but
be felt maddest that the seat to the ratepayers,--aad be
spoke in the capacity of a ratepayer,—would be far greater
if it wen dose by the asamireumers of sewers, than ii it
were done by • private company.. The object of the com-
pany was to convert the sewerage too a valuable manure,
and thus to reimburse themselves. But at was said that it
was wrong for them to ask for any guarantee. That ema-
nate@ was that if the milts did not give an amount of 3
per cent., the defleiesey should be made up by the rate-
payers. It was thought reasonable %oarlike such • proposal,
as the ratepayers would derive great sanitary advantages
hem the drainage. The only asked now for the second
reeding of the bill, and t hoped that the bill might be
east to • eels* committee, a order that the remonableness
of the proposal might be inquired into by the committee ;
sad it wee his pelmets opinion, that if the committee would
set permit the guarantee, so gnat was the confidence of
the parties in the undertaking, that they would carry it out,
but be did not think they should be called upon to undergo
that risk. The promoters of the bill did tot make
it • rise eye wow of their measure ; they only
"eked that it should be inquired ,veto. There
bed been • proposal that the ratepayers should
share the profits, and there might be a proposal
to that effect made oefore the committee, if the prelim were
beyond a within amount, or it might he proposed that the
gisanutteri should be permissive and not compulsory He
oohed the house not to *jest the bid on account of these
details.
Sir LIZ L. EVANS odd if this were a mere question of
detail, he should be walks* epee to the nosed reading.
It was set. lowover, • seethes of detail, but of principle.
It was • smiths of tanedlee el the public, which was not
to beder~ by • owaraltese, bet by the house.
Mr. T. BUNCOMBE wished the right bon. member for
Manchester weeld some to his senses, He was sure Maw
shelter some met steed sash • bill for a moment. He was
quite sadist the, seppdag this clause were struck out,
the whale eithethe was impracticable. Pans this bill, and
there weal be nether body having power to pull up the
pmewieutei SDI what between paving boucle, and lighting
eseipanles, amderater companies, the pavements were now
being coatiarely broken up already. The object of this
bill was said to be to effectually_ drain the metropolis—a
=rod object. They were teethe% it by two peat arterial
, and after that they were to apply the sewerage to
merieultural purposes. Why, he ues told that after all the
manure to be obtained would not be worth a farthing.
Well, then, this speculation would fail. lie was quite
seedy to vote against the second reading of the bill at that
=moat, and nut to put it off at all.
Lord PALMERSTON said he thought this a very im-
portant measure, inasmuch as the object of it was to effect a
my great horseman* in the drainage of the metropolis,
sad to do that while must be the foundation of any system
111( drainage, *mom it was evident that unless they got
some great WIN alt a thffisieotly low 'esti to coable the
tholes to empep thetheelves into it nothing their could do
meal bees erp eeesiderable effect. Then the question
seemed le be whether Ma work, which would necessarily
east a prase MI, sheuld be undertaken by parties who en•
treed late it as • 411•11111.11111 enterprise, or whether the
*et sheuM be defrayed by loan, to be guaranteed
epee the MN to be levied in the different parishes
•of the 1111111111ta. He perhaps rather wished it
the ether hem Wog, perhaps, somewhat
ashiefsegiel ea sehlest, when he said that this work
• would **ably espoesede any other, but be was informed
the GYM of the dietelei drains was such that a very large
outlay might be nememery in ceder* place them in =effec-
tive state. He wee MM, bleed, that there were many dis-
tricts in which theft mere to sewers, and that there were
ethers in which the seems@ ware such bad constructions
from the beginales dist a ensiderable outlay was required
in order to render dant effisselve. It was quite clear there
wee • want of a inesiderable expenditure ost the various
sewers. Now, thee was a provision made in this bill to
which be wideness/ objection was made, by which there
vas a guarantee of a certain per Genteel, on the outlay.
That was a 'matter not, be thought, for the
mooed readies, bet for the committee. He smell
my It append le him, that if this project held net
a sofficleat isileiseesat to a company to invest a ledge ea*
id, a gsessatee el 3 per cent. was almost itheethliest
smith the view dialed them to the enterprise, beep* if it
would thew at all, it would answer without • guaradlue;
and if it would not answer without • guarantee, be see-
minty should not advise any friend of his to invest In it.
Be objected to the postponement, but should propose that
the bill be hew read a sem* time, sad that the committee
should deal with it.
Lord SEYMOUR said foe many years they had been
essedering the boat means of draining the mettopolis. Now
the House of Commons seemed to object to the commission
el sewers, whisk was by no means a popular body. (Hear,
beer.) Again, it had been proposed that a government
beard should widen** it, and that was considered
still more objectionable. Now another proposal was
mad*, that • private company should undertake
the arterial drainage. Now there were great ob-
. Peden+ to • private company doing anything of the
hied. They had had private companies supplying them
with water, and that had not been satisfactory ; they put
themeelvee under their power, and had very great
difficulty in getting rid of them. But it must be remem-
bered that they had got to drain an immense area, and be
'squired some time ago of some engineers what it would
take to drain the north bank of the Thames without
bashing the other vide, sad they told him be mast not en•
peat to de so under a millioa and • half. If this company
esald undertake to do it, sad the ratepayets could be cer-
eal& of not having any charge made on them, and, at the same
time, have the work efficiently done, they would, of course,
receive a great benefit, and, therefore, it would be well,
with • view to obtain some information on the subject, that
the bill should go to aeommittee up stairs. He saw some oh-
jetties to that, but be thought the matter worthy of enquiry,
sad if it was to be inquired into be hoped there would be
so delay, because the noble lord said that any government
measure would dewed is sows degree on what was do*
with this, and if theydelayed they might lose another year.
• Sir J. V. SHELLEY said be was one of them who
thought there were three great nuisances in this esetropo-
lia,—lbe Cosemiseise of Sewers, the Board of Health, and
the 'arrived* of the City of London. (Laughter.) He
leokwl with therthise es this Wiese, because he had rev
see to believe that the seepereiss of the City of London
was this bail. Ifs endentooi the promoter* of
the ebash=rl ao hoer it potties the capital unless they
bad the pthimentee. If theyes=mid the bill the compalay
weld teme Mani sad whether they sould emit
rt the esillel IMMO. is ad mg my the whole whose
wee sbessh, boas he wee saides• that se swats
*soli be head by which this groat week should
He was anxious that the bill ebsuid be
M seeseapihhed.
*leered to • eels* amain*, but he could not consent to
the second reales now, bemuse he thought that the rate-
yesehad a dohs teserdider the measure, ante he was sure
C ausadtamale weld,tress give their consent to this gua-
Tante, eft pert earth
Mr. LOCKE theme* thy ought to consider the sub-
senbees. who hed end on the 'faith of this clause.
life timed the bill ogee sot to go to a select committee
unit they bad determined as to the guarantee.
Mr. V. SCULLY observed that the principle of a gut-
though it might be novel in England, was common
to Ireland.

Kr. DIVETT hoped the house would not vote for the
mond feasting under the delusion that it wee possible this
work could go on as a private undertaking without a gua-
rantee.

Mr. WILKINSON did not think tle mosey could be
raimeg without • guAranter. Itil LOW ultras were wiling
$ pey their fair share of the (accuse of Craiaig. procded
they get their pennyworth for •heir pesoy.
Mr. CAYLEY etipported the bill, and ta'd he 1-ioked on
the eoroyant as ouh:le Nut fatit.,r..
After a ft w wort from Sir whi esdainel