The Express.
London, England, 1851-06-21 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—Faim•i. Just 20.

The Stu PR tOOk en chair at (OW O'CIOCk.
IVATE BUSINESS.
Loam' Away nnewre.—lidinburgh, Perth, and Dundee
Railway Bill.— Agreed to.
Ta ion RNA DIM/L—Cheltenham Improvement and
Health ; Magneto Electric Telegraph Company ;
Kingdom Electric Telegraph Company ; Bills.
lIVADING.—Duchy of Lancaster (High Peak
Mining Cadmus and Mineral Courts) Bill.
Costurcrea. -211 w Ocnmral Reversionary and Invest-
ment Company (imposition of Stamp Duty) Bill passed
through committee.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
AOICCIILTPRAL DIATIALLS.—By Lord G. MANNERS,
from Mahon, Leicestershire; by Mr. PACER, from L !ices-
ter ; reprosentina the distress of the agricultural interest,
and praying for ,measures of relief.
Unit enstrr TV:ITC—By Sir H. DAVIE, from Had-
dington and North B?rwick:, Mr. COWAN, from the pro-
vost, magistrates and council of Edinburgh ; in favour of
the abolition of tests in the university. By Mr. FOR-
DYCE, from Aberdeen, in favour of the continuance of
the tests.
NATIONAL (111101) STATEN OP EDUCATION.—By Sir
W. VERNER, from Armagh, against the national system
of edwation in Ireland.
'ltem ov Knowtgnoe.—By Sir G. PECIIELL, from
Brighton, against the taxes on knowledge.
I. no AL 'fIUEATIL4.—IIy Mr. COBDEN, from
the West Riding, in favour of international treaties and
gene ral ellstrinaments.
Tire Citerrnst.—By Mr. COBDEN, front a town in the
Ve.t !tidiest, praying the house to adopt Cie principles of
the shatter.
Rens:. Poides.—By_ Sir J. PAKINGTON, from a
board of guardians in Woreestershire, praying for me...tures'
to improve the efficiency and lessen the cost of the rural
.
LW Al. RAT/A.—By Sir H. II ALFORD, from Board
of Guardians of Bateman Union, Leicestershire, complain-
ing at novo pressure of local rates' condemning the law
(.4.m:intent and distrind its repeal, setting forth a plan
fur the purpose, anal praying the house to adopt measures
in oni,r to their relief, and Justice to all Limits of the com-
munity.

NEW WRIT.
Oe the motion of Sir Dr L. Evaaa a new writ war or.
den d for the return o: a member to serve for the borough
of Cireenwieli, in the room of Mr. B. fr. Barnard, deceased.
111 E MAItYLEBONE RECTORY.
Sir B. lIAI.I. inquired what COUTIC the government in.
tended taking with the bill, notice of which had been given,
with impel to the Marylebont Rectory ?
Mr. O. C. I.V.WIS had found that the hill would have to
be dealt with ►s a twinge and not as a public bill.
BRITISH GUIANA.
Sir J. PAKINGTON asked why the report of the com-
mis ,on sent out to inquire into the tradition and prospects
4.f lb. i.► Guiana LUI not been laid on the table of the
hon. •
Mr. HAWES replied that the report had been received
by the Culosisl-ofUe too or three months ago, but that it
had neser bees Nerved for in the house. It mould only be
1.401 so the table along with other paper'. It would be pro-
dans' if it was •bougßht desirable.
Ills MERCANTILE MARINE ACT.
Mr. WAWN risked when the Pre-ident of the Board of
Trade would lay on the t Abbe the contemplated ameuilments
of the Mereintile Marine Act?
Mr. LABOUCIIMAK —la a few days.
ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES ASsUMPTION BILL.
Toe ord, r of the day was read, and the house resolved
its. into committee (progress) on the Ecclesiastical Titles
Assumptim. 11111.
The CHAIRMAN stated that the question was that
Clause 2 should stand part of the bill.
Mr. II 110011 (who had three amendments on the paper)
stated that he had received an intimation that the noble
lord the first minister had espressed to sup.

illsposition to. _,
poet —me- of the sowowsimests of weskit he (Mr. Krogh) had
sista notice ; and, under time eireumstunces, he would
withdraw the whole of them, and bring up that which
the noble lord accepted at a later stage of the bill.
Mr. MONSELL then rase to move the proviso "of
be hail giVen notice --to insert the following at the
end ul the 2nil clause: Provided always, that nothing in
this ail contained shall be construed to interfere with, or
in any in inner to restrict. the free action of the Itoman
catholic church in the United Kingdom in matters of a
spiritual nature.'• The hon. gentleman and that his object
in moving this was simply to give an unubjectiunable gua-
rantee, and to promote, as far as possible, peace and con-
cord, in reference to this measure, in and out of the house.
fie was sure that the noble bird at the head of the govern-
ment could nut consistently reject this suggestion ; and he
was in hopes that it would be fairly considered, and that it
would receive the general approval of the house. It might be
acrid, in opposition to the amendment, that the tan-
genre in which it was worded w
was too vague to
render -

..... . it at all it __
uAlivv, inasmuch as it was a very difficult thing
U. draw %hi. distinction between opiritual " and "tem-
poral" matters. That might be quite true; but who iv
.-
amendment he -

to deride ? Ily this amenliMel. ..- propose il to leave the
derision mainly to the civil courts—the only proper tri-
bunal. This WWI a fair, equitable, and really unob-
jectionable amendment, and, proffering it in a spirit of con-
ciliation. he did'hope that it would not he rejected.
'f ho sOl.leefolleGliNEßAL would be extremely
sorry ii it were summits' for one moment that the go-
vernment was dig-awed to refuse any anienilmeut of
this bill bieli rook! fairly and reasonably he demanded for
the purpose which the boa. gentleman had in view. But
the committee would recollect that this was not the first
time during thew discussions that an amendment of this

hind had CorThs brought forward. The hon. member him-
w, If had proposed a very similar ans, nilment early in tha
romindtee. An amendment to the 2.102 C effect had been,
on another invasion, brought forward by a noble lord (the
ul of Arundel and Surrey); and again by another member ;
taken ^'—
"

nee, 111 discussions had _ plane on these amendments,
and dm decisions of the committee had apparently been
regarded by the majority u satisfactory. It had been amply
proved that there were really no purely spiritual functions
of the Roman catholic church with which this bill could by
any possibility interfere The hon. member had not ven-
tured to point to any one spiritual function which the bill
would attack. It had certainly been suggested by one gen-
tleman that the bill would indirectly touch upon ardina-
tion, and that in interfering with ordination it would inter-
fere with marriages. But no authorities had been cited, no
este h.ul hen sutra, and no reasons whatever had been
offered why the house should agree to such an amendment
as this. It bad been clearly established that the functions
of a b` in no way depended his title from a

. a bishop
eese, hut that the functions of a bishop depended upon his
ton' oration. Everybody knew--and be said this with-
out the sliahtoat intention of wounding the feelings of
any Roman catholic—that the interpretation of the word
"spiritual," and of the wonls " spiritual jurisdiction,"
awl " apiritaal (anyhow" was widely different in the
Roman catholic church from the interpretation which was
put upon such wont in any other church. The Roman
catholic chureh gave to the word "spiritual" a far wider
%cope than any other church. In the " spiritual" the
Roman catholic church implied numerous other functions
which other churches supposed to be essentially temporal.
An amendment like this, therefore, would be productive of
doubt and confusion in the reading of the art, and was, in
every respect, undesirable. There was this remarkable
fact in cooneition with this question, a fact which he bad
gathered front the Catholic DinvMry—that of the total
numb., of the bishops of the Kinston catholic church, a
biro, proportion, nearly one third, were bishops deriving
their titles only from titular secs. After the full discussion
which this point had undergone, he hoped that the hoc.
gentleman would not prey his amendment.
A het a fen words from Mr. Mottartt.,
Mr. SOU LI.Y said that if the bill paned in its present
shape, and without some such alteration as that proposed
by hi. hon. (rend the member fur Limerick, it would pre-
vent justice being done to the second order of the catholic
clergy, and would alas prevent the removal of that evil so
much complained of by catholic, in this country, the direct
interference of the Popo with the wy, est-rein-de.

_
_.e ekirgy- ..... .... _.. hear.) - any English %. _.. county ire.- .. operation. con-
_ _
..eigreuL
the agency of the violin-apostolic. Mile could jusiteelue gsr—e. sag ess :fibs boa. mug ',so gnaw *Melba enhisarrales el the house dadirei not to tended, however, that on this question numbers ought to
done to the wand order of the clergy if the Hoban catholic ma alms amid ass =and to wawa.. W. be *fir
IS • 6111111, 01111101ien Nei *NO ; and he be considered. Even William the Third directed, prior to
bishops were not allowed to hold synod. and make male- newer wn, then the wedwyneow shay this thaehee sheell deign be would not selemit that his the surrender of Limerick, that the catholics should be
time, which could sot be made without them ? With- bill ; they did net mit he irloiroce of the . and hon. Mead thesil be eelled to order for merely evading the allowed to enjoy all the rights and privileges which they
out such a clause as that now proposal this that the' case was an sae, put forward by the rules of Er beams pmEimiatiy when he cast his reeollec. possessed in the reign of King Charles. The hon. and
bill would put down the moralpower of the catholic fiehthe:beetiegege, They onenewanat) had dealt with ties bilk • few mast weeks, and thought of what had learned member for Youghal (Mr. Antes) had spoken
e piiieopeey. the esienng ewes It tam elk wain the bet few years been midi by the bra wombs for Surrey himself. (" Hear, of his communion with catholic'. if the honourable
Mr SADLIGR stemma big regret that the government that the see bows beg sommod dim tuts: he boot," 11•• cheers Hem His Irish members.) and learned member meant religious communion
bad not acquiesced in the prinitple, at least, of the amend- seid . beleme tailed usey gig asa mama Lard I. RUSSELL-11s ally question is as to whether he (Mr. Reynolds) denied that he had any com-
wilt- The °bin', atimillmendolesse waste preveuensture liti- them. Wee web a:4W At the mess thee, it the ben. member for East limmey is or is not out of order. munion with him (Mr. Reynolds) ; his meandenngs had
gatiou of a meet ••••••IS and adaddrreas Amstar. So far sta, weeny le do bid's., go.. eased (Hear, hear.) The boa. member for Galway (Mr. divorced him from all connexion with him. (Great laughter.)
two the ameadment eendleing tbe bill obecure, it was then, la --- -- Its aim an man *a dim was any Grptaberty) has not in any way shown that be is. (Hear, The catholic/ who sent him to that house had disavowed
calculated to oyes y the obscurity of the bill itself other ta as tuba imps. who seseseel sus tade of hear.) What the hon. member for Surrey has said may be him publicly; the protestants of Youghal had also disowned
as regarded a meet dalfaate and important question, and hinen cues theas @Ma astablished church of Heglead ttatravartedi but he ha° net bleu Proved disorderly. him. lie (Mr. Reynolds) gave him notice that he would
the pawing of the imesembeent would show that the govern. end Ireland. (Hear, hear.) not be re elected ; he had been "weighed in the balance
meat really had no desire to interfere with the spiritual 4 Mr. OSWALD all Ibe right hon. genttsioes aired Mr. SADLEIR—But the chairmen called the hon. mem- and found wanting." The hon. and learned member had
functions of the Room cathodic bishop.. By the establish- that the bishop in Sesibed had no right to mem Iwo ber for Galway to order before he had laid anything. (Cries referred to a paper which he said was addressed to the
sent of a hierarchy In this count 7 in place of the vicars premier peer or England. No man had greater respect for
titles, and that was Mew He else Slid they bid e_ragy as. of " Order," chair," and "oh !")
apostolic, the Roma artholies gained an independent Lai. samed them within the hat few years, but the fast was Mr. O'FLAHERTY begged to amaze the noble lord the high station of that nobleman than he had ; but he was
tans in this country se regarded the Pope of Rome, w 'eh had used tersiteesid bun eyes sines 1727. (Lord J. Russell), as alas the as.. ms .be, far Surrey, that not to be bound by any of his acts, much less by an anonymous
they could nut otherwise enjoy. He confessed that he, for err. GLADSTONE said it was
_ perfectly true the W the expression he had amid be we to stand by. requisition to him. The hon. and learned gentleman showed
one, was not pre4to surrender that advantage. It was leya had se sad he did not point out thedism: (" Oh, oh," ad asetrisa.) He he bad used no little gratitude to the Holy Father, who had not only received
imiiesaible, he for an Roman catholic in this eies,,, ee iii cell to edy. but thee were expression la amtmaatian of the lies Of Mk/ of that him into the church, but had conferred on him a political
country sot Ile ' by the substitutio• ef Laii4aCialf t! eadelimi evilest s!invil and religious liby, house. (" Oh, eh," mad " Chair.") Had b. gm so. he haiAthood ihe was a knight of the order of St. Gregory of ,
bishop' for vlame agareelle, who ho made bold to 1 hte )He showed his '
withoat raj& MOM season for it. He wanted to would be ready to apologise; but he would net remit the a. Brazen Spur. (Great laughter.) r. c grati.
say ware nothing MIA Ss to of the court of Rase. I„,oweau moms. mu had jest as much right u hon. member for S le emote nnanthseised apreedese lade to the Pope byeallitte him a tyrant, and to the English
1484ted ths would pause before they aa, bib* to room Weis were to be precluded without observing esa erred esabsism.) whelks, to whose zeal it was to be presumed he was in-
, ►loth is form and in spirit, dbe fan as eine The CHAIRMAN wield to whet IMP peat of or- debted for his conversion, by denying their allegiance. He
amninsitelaVinsea. hint If the real object o the ms, gpxyllOLDS, ipso this clause as an map. der was to which the bas. member rose? (Mr. Reynolds) threw back such calumnies. The catholic
premises was aft to beak the action of the BUM thaw. dam, vet to it ; but, if a division Mr. O'FLAIIINTY—I complain of the'hon. pegbearm's peers, merchants, and traders of this country had rallied
and had signed a document declaring
WWII redlden ha met= spiritual, it was of the bit ha- ,asutisibs ..year be sessgg Mt vote at all, as it should quoting extremism purporting to he the Ammo/. elm. round the cardinal,
=daft_dray *NM express their wishes sod gadgets totem be saaransha that ba seam gees.y part of this members &Hi law& (" No, no," from Mr. Diammasad.) their approval of his conduct ; and was he, then, to be told
art semis time. we. Tam dams be agiftead we se wegane with the
.Wiellbe.n, it meeedliseaverLliltsivee it. If
=lf
thortheityl,themmaharimpromisabed
sybymanpaethixtdc
wlikithe them,: ?
((p(3reinatingt fautoghMterr..) ATretebt flat they
Mr. J. croominux thou ht Nei the amble Mud at the ......a ass" who *As add 41=0.1.1.
bed .a elilwelammesst was to adopt this man& The time was dna te s eiblea. decidedly would be fhb ha was voting the ayhdons of for East Surrey (Mr. H.Druramond) bad as usual walked into
nest el ems Moder hem of wends by the signentins Mr. 8. CRA tin gessesgsg is useosbo dews hon. gentians's. mendsees enlist bees& (No, as) There- the house with his pockets full of musty documents, and
*AM bs beg pot la bar s „NA maii the thaws of which be bid ohm mi.. an* ii am Eiji aill dub fore, I wanted him le meat the desenent Hem which he had read one which turned out to be a quotation from a
at the lair tbe sad la which them was a ail =lea le beirbd. es 6 INN ill di At quoted,
.I, that the Efeltia 210,1 he stared up., newspaper called the Catholic Vindicator, published, he MOM to tha
to Web the Adams of the mime. be Om IMO a . DIE4RAB the MN was very elergie. The supposed, Ulna the Tweed. He begged to assure that ef lee maim, The Niumeest- any alt se As Iwo a= hon. member for Galway seems& the boa. bomber for hon. member that in the event of the -I°ope and his troops
veil mold net be maybe net that !is sag ibe—stlii Surrey had made an assertion net santained__ by anthority, invading this country the catholic' of England and of be-
did nod glee same olth ledifeerd re thael=tassitsswile The
of Dr. Whebeere Plinceal which was decidedly noteisali, bat allowed of an an- land would meet him in the battle-field. (Irnaical
Wolk& int bailee the empreadsss is 60 mai wink =Sum in bis IMa oils. a hf, sag sea.
ewer. (Hear, hear.) H (Mr. Disraeli) did not mean to laughter.) Notwithstanding the laugh—he would sot
=bed bed seer and we gels britenguseeps getung *dam bas ins ass.adoss ail= gm passel say that the hon. member for Surrey had made an indiscreet say ths insolent seer— of the hon. and herbed
Aloe.
usathasi balm;
sad amen k wee hid dos that amerties, but he certainly did not make a disorderly one. mitesindmadber
vaulter
forYouguiebalcia jitson
princirepeatepied,
brit
caring little
t
bed
Ihmt be lisi se
••.• el follilliddi with Ks* ldififbal Smiles Ind waft Esehlbe gambled Ow wbethbolled rap Caw, beer&
Jubiant. lb essantielse sea sew elm* gone Homo wisk Days, am. ~.a imam amiss, of a. gee Mr. REYNOLDS thought it only fair and nameable whether it was carried or not.
W MD, and net it weld hid bun hoed la * fhb seal wawa. bag swami/ a Emma „him as to whether that whatever an hon. sandman read from • document, he After a few words from Ids. ANSTIT and Mr. J. O'Cow-
be
said to amid ill samas. Aug A. sinews lassoseami the la midi ink is /mina aa aag. imai eistely they should quote that doconseat, in order that the 'owes hem nun,