The Express.
London, England, 1849-03-06 00:00:00

OFFENCES (IRT.LAN'D) BILL.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL wished to mention that he had
that morning wite.c.d a letter fr-ra Mr. Berwick, ecirh re-
ference to the Offences (Ire:cud) Bill, which the h; n. nr.ronet
the member for the arty of Waterford (Sir If. w. D. Iron )
had introduced ea Wedrzwiley last. Mr. ii.ruick .carted
that he hod elmenuniectcd with the hen. baronet, end re-
quested him to cerreer a err :inert he had mode oz five :ay
is question. Ile ado stereo tag he bad communicaced wan
the nwatbor for the truivenity of Dublin (Mr. Napier), wh3
presumed an intimate knowledge of the frets of the mac Mr.
Semitic wished it to be distinctly understood by the blare
that be had not rived in the tanner alleged
lit the coarse of the deba•e, and be not only
thanked him (Mr. O'Connell) fur what be had
sestud on Wednesday, but he bore him out in scary parti-
Naar.

NAVIGATION LAWS.
Mr. BERRIES aid that teeing the how. gentleman the
under-secretary for the colonies in his place, he wished to
ask him a question, which he might not be able to answer
that day, but which ha probably would reply to on the fol-
lowing. In order to make the ease intelligible, be might
inform the house that a misting bad been held in Hamilton,
West Canada, of partite who were summoned together to
petition in favour of a repeal of the navigation laws. The
rand; however, timed out to he, that the majority of the
meeting was &palest any t.p4ml of these laws. An address
wesseceented te Lord E:g.a, io hich the sentiments of the
were etabtdied ; sad the question he hid to ask
was, w ether h:s Excellency bad transmitted that address to
this country, and, if so, woy it had not been laid on the
table of the house E.
Mr. lIAWES helieved that all the papers relating to the
navigation laws had been..:r were *bast to be, laid on the
table of the heave. With respect to the particular ease in
question, he would return an ewe sr to-morrow I this di) ).

LORD MINTOV CREDENTIALS.
Lord PALMERSTON, in reply to the question asked by
the hon. member for Ihrentbire (Mr. Bank's) on Friday
night, stated that the date of Lord Mioto's credentials to
the court of the Two S-cities was the 17th of Demmer,
1847, and that his iordship ten Naples on the 7th cf April,
1848, when his functions mated.
On the order of the day bung read, the house went into
committee on
POOR LAWS (IRELAND).—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
Mr. OSBORNB mid that whatever differences might
mitt in that house as to the moieties. which had been
beanie forward by the noels tee 4 at the heed of the go-
vernment, there could he no almiute that the ease hart been
fairly put before Me house. and that, divested of all rhetorical
verbiage, it nac ut.trd to tale. that the poor law had entirdy
broken darn it the western districts of Ireland, and that the
noble lord now celled on the house to levy a contribution on
the north and south of the country to support the poet r:y of
the west. Now, he (Mr. Osborne) for one conferned that if
he saw that the noble lord lad his colleague. entertsined any
clear conception or powered env general knowledge of the
great difficulties with which. they were surrounded—if
he thought they bud any mastery over the details of this
question, he would refrain from nuking any observations
upon what must at best he considered an obj•ctionable
measure. But after having bead the speeches of the noble
lord and the right hon. the Chancellor of the Extftemier, ho
thought nobody could mist he conclusion that her Majet mem
ministers were rot able to dal with the tremendous difficul-
ties with which the subject was surrounded. (Hear, hear )
He Saw no chance of their In Mg able to lay down any per-
mama foundati-n fir a better state of society in the w. teem
ditricts of Irelend. Even now they were only oder ;motet-
fag a palliative, instead of eternising a cure ; and it bei.oved
the house to peese before it entered on a course of polity
which would destroy the vitality of the eastern and needle-en
flay without ommunimene any permanent ben, ht to
the western. He protested against the continuance of this
system of levying rates to saffserd eleemosynary relief to pad-
✓es in any pert el Ireland. (Her, hear.) The pre eon: was
Wattling more than an eittempt to shrink from the
difficulties of the case by caking me atonal doles; but
is the cad greater calamities would succeed The
government had been aware for months of the distressed
mate of the people in the west. The government officials
had rood, reports, yet parliament had net been called so.e.-
%Mr, and no iliet.:oll had lone made of the matter in the
Queen's Speech, or anywhei el-c, until tee noble lord came
down and went to that refutes fee the destitute, the conso-
lidated fund, end gave 50.n00t out of it. Tte noble lord
was to blame if he had reduced the case to that ietereetive
of granting money or leseentr the people to perish. Hear.)
The right hon. baronet time member for Ripon (Sir J.
Graham), who, if reports were true, bad been in treaty
with the noble lord for a pl ice in his cabinet, had steed that
the 50,0r01. wee the last grant which he could support,
and he suggested that he should like to hear something of
those comprehensive and r medeil measures which for the
last ten years her Maim} prrriut missisters had been heed-
ing out ns an ignia.faitsw to le land. (Hear, hear.) Well,
what was the cm.equence 'l'h± grant of 50,000 f. woe ne
sooner forced through the house titan the noble lord comae
down suddenly and proposed the present plea of eremite,-
irritation, which was so comprehensive that it had created
great diecoatent in the north of Ireland, and so remedial that
it would only keep the people alive for a few wet ts I.,njer.
Bat he (Mr. Osborne) 'rented to know what was to
happen after tees* few week' expired ? What other
plan was proposed, not merely to keep the people
alive, for he s mil I not he satisfied with merely iceman
them alive—but who'. plan was proposed for the permanent
improvement of tt e western ilietries of Ireland ? The home
was entitled to have a diseeet and definite answer uoma
that point ; and ha most reepeetfully told hon. member that
this state of thi; ye would c ietinue while parties remained it.
their preeent state. So log se they should have only one
set of men who were au,.,:en d to be able to ailininiatsr
executive of th:s country—an tong as the gentlemen of the
Carlton Club could not tak t the places of those at Breokese
so long would t -.ey hey, the people lamenting
the existing state of Clime, and appointing com-
mittees of iiiquiry. Ile prer,ted against the continuance
of the system. (hear, hear.) It wee all very well for them
to suppose the •he rata in aid would amount to 2.50,000 e,
and that it would all come from Irish peck. ts ; tut what
security was th ere that tee money to be drawn from the
Consolida.el Fune would be hereafter paid from the rate in
aid? Ile emw eel no Su h conrunimsticn; and, therefore,
it would be well for the house to petite bef we they vote 1 on
the supposition that the re n in aid would be of :,fined to
the amount stated, fee his opinion was that that r. te would
not preduee more then 2,000/. or 3,0004 (Ileer, hear,)
When he looked at the mtseeerile names on the committee
he could not but 'epeese his surprise at the comae they
took; for ale. e esh cot eteuencies in Ireland wore :wit-
ins for relief, down came the noble lied, and
without any previous intimation, submitted a string
of resolution, not to 'llama the poor laws, not to
take the burdens or the ratepayer, but to lay an add iti .nal
taxation on those who senip.eiaed that they were airct.dy
overburdened. There was only one precedent fir this courts,
but it occurred in Ai, pages ot' Oil Blass" It wee the treat-
ment of temegrado; for here was Ireland complaining, and
the political Sargreelo of the day was megesting too neces-
sity of a little mere blood-letting. (Hear, hear.) He called
upon the noble lord to explain how 'he proposed to msiutain
the unions when the sixpenny rate was doled out
and the landlords were enttu up in the nertlurn
and eastern provinces? The noble lord accrued to
think that as Ireland was exempt from the income toe she
ought to be resigned to the neyment of the sixpenny rate;
but Adam Smith's maxim ought to be observed here, that
" the contribution of a people to the revenue should he in
proportion to their ability to pay it ;" and, if there wan any
doubt upon the subject, lee a committee of inqu:ry be ap-
pointed to ascertain what it • rate was which Ireland of sit
to pay to the imeerial exchequer. (Hear, hear.) 11. (Mr.
oJsorne) would vote for any motion which would tusks the
whole of the rateeele property of Ireland available tot the
sustenance of the poor; but in at., cam the bonds ought to
have some goon:dee that the rate to be levied limed net
be spent in eleemosynary but that it should be de-
voted to sour. purpose ut home colonisation, asieed by
emigration, and that it secede not be thrown into a
bottomless pit, wl.ich did no glee, but left the remic in
hopeless idler( s and the coun el- totally unimproved. (II .u.)
Toe Poor-law Commissioner, of Inquiry, in their re port in
1838, 'pealing of a parish in the West of Ireland, said that
it would shortly brine do w n k.r.slers with it, and that ev, t. to ally
the whole of Ireland would have to leen on Enyl .nd for
support. He, therefore, celled open English members to
pause before they spew to this additional rate in nid. It
was the duty of the government to aid the cowry by
home embeds...lin, or by emerration to other cow-tries.
(Hear, hear.) It was y. ry well to say that property
must support its poverty; but he held that to be a most
dangerous doctrine. He, for instance, was obliged tope! 1,0001.
in poor rates last y.atr, and woe: was the orneequence Why,
that is order to pay it from his labour fund he had to
discharge a certain member of labourers. He thought
he could suggest measures to the noble lord that weld. It
was liis opinion that the n :We lord was bound Meg •incc to
have introduced a bill to enfotce the saleof those lands which
had not paid the poor-rate. (Hear.) The prodsce of the land wee
liable, but the fee of the land was not. It eras said that those
lands were under the management of the courts. And how
much did the rental of these lands amount to ? To 1,001,e00/.
Aced of that only 6 per cent. had been laid out by the re-
ceivers. He maintained that the whole system of estates
under receivers in Chancery should he remodelled. The hon. •
member for Limerick r.cemmended a discrimicaerg rate
between arable and pasture land ; but that he consiecred not
only opposed to free trode principles, but going back
to an antediluvian mstern. Ireland was a country
with aristocratic instittelons but without an aristocracy.
The noble lord concluded his speech the other night by saying
that Ireland was in a state of transition to comparative hrp-
piness and prove. ity. That was not a very practic..l mode
of getting over the diffieulty„ which, in his opinion, would
continue to remain until some such bold measures as he
suggested were adopted.
Sir R. PEEL (who was occasionally inaudible from speak-
ing with his to ck to the gallery) said he would address him-
self at once to the question of the present state of
Ireland, which was twofold: first, whether they should
leave the people of Ireland to he supported exclusively by
the electoral divisions and unions in which they lived, and
secondly, if they were of opinion that some extraneous aid
was necessary, from what source should it come ? Ile could
not reconcile himself is give a vote which would throw the
existence of the people of Ireland upon those individual
unions or division,. Frcm the papers before the house-, be
had observed that in many cf those unions very grea• efforts
had bees made for the support of their mor ; and
he thought great injustice was done in this counts
to the landed proprietors arociated with thou dis-
trict.. He found in the papal before them
the most conclusive evidence that most strenuous local exer-
tions had been made in many pies of the country, that there
had been a willing submission to the law, and that if the weele
amount of the rates had not been paid, it was because it was
a physical impossibility. To refuse extraneous aid in the
present circumstances of Ireland would be to increase the
famine and the seread of dimes.; and he could not believe,
wha' ever they might think of the put pollee of the House
of Commons, that they would refuse net ilia and adopt the
alternative. (Hear, her.) Ile might admit that the system
t of India:imitate relief bad the lamentable oonsequence of