The Express.
London, England, 1851-05-24 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS. SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 24, 1851.

was a declaration of what the law had been for hundreds
of years past. It was declared in this particular bill. lie
had not said that the clause applied as an enacting clause to
Ireland, but he said this—the law already extended to
Ireland. It had extended to it for two hundred years and
more. The legislature were not now altering or varying
the law, but they were simply declaring it ; and, if they
declanal it as to one l'ops's hull, that declaration
was valid as to one thousand Pope's hulls in both countries.
They were not declaring any last which exis ed prior to
Poyning's Act. There was no discrepancy between what
he had said and what had fallen from the hon. member for
Midhurst. The latter asserted that the law was to-day
what it had been in the month of September, 1650. He
(the Solicitor-General) said so too—that the proceedings on
the part of the Pope were illegal then, and that this act
declared them to be so. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY said the com-
mittee were informed that this was a declaratory dame,'
bet they should remember that other high legal authorities
bed given it ns their opinion that it was both a declaratory
mid an enacting clause. If it passed in its present shape,
Ramean catholic members had better take up their hats and
walls out of the house—e` Hear, hear," and laughter)—
leaving the government to extricate themselves from a po-
/Atka which he believed they would find to be one of ince-
trieable embarrassment, requiring sooner or later that the
bill should be amended or repealed.
Dir. MOORE said the Solicitor-General had accused the
Irish members of speaking obscurely on what was manifestly
an obsure subject. (Ilear.) It was quite clear now, boa -
ever, that the hon. member for Midhurst had suggested the
present clause in one sense, and that the government had
adopted it in another. The hon. member for Midhurst had
suggested it in a restricted and comparatively mild sense,
and the government had adopt d it in a mischie-
vous sense. (Hear, hear.) He thought it desira-
ble that the hon. member nod the govern-
ment should consult together again, wi the I
view of seeing whether they could not emus forward on
some future occasion, and jointly explain to the committee
what was the real meaning of the clause.
Mr. M'CI:LLAGII said the hon. member for Midhurst'
had suggested the elan e in one sense, and that the Sulici- '
tor-General had suggested it in another. Now, he would
not follow the Solicitor-General in the gloomy wit—(loud
laughter)—in which he had indulged ; but he would tell
hint this—that as he had not been in the house durinpithe last
seven hours, during which others had had the misfortune to
I be present, he (Mr. M'Cullagh) was at a bus now to under-
stand the hon. and learned gentleman's meaning. The
committee hail heard such different constructions put upon
the Clause that he despaired of ascertaining whether te
Roman catholic bishop in Ireland might or might nut be
prosecuted by any common informer if the clause passed in
its present shape. Ile asked whether the Attorney-General
for Ireland—(loud laughter)—he did not ask that lion. and
learned gentleman in any spirit of jesting or of disrespect,
but in perfect seriousness—he asked him whether
if this clause should pass, he, the responsible adviser of the
crown in Ireland, agreed with the hon. member for Mid-
hurst that it would not affect Ireland, or did he agree with
I the Solicitor-General for England that, without venturing
to name Ireland, the house was passing a bill of pains and
penalties which would subject every Irish Roman catholic
bishop to the indignity of being sued by every scoundrel
who chose to institute proceeding, against him ? (Hear
bear.)
Mr. KEOOII said the question was so fair and reasonable
' that it must La answered before the debate proceeded any
further. The hon. member for Midhurst had not bean
playing the game of fast and loose ; on the contrary, he had
adhered to his original statement. Ile said the clause did
not apply to Ireland; the Solicitor-General, on the other
hand, said that so far as it was a declaration of the law, it
was as applicable to Ireland as it was to England. If the
Solicitor-General wus correct, it was a declaratory
law for both countries. lie (the Solicitor-Geueral) I
seemed to perceive chaotic confusion in the minds
lof others. How applicable, however, were the lines of the
poet to himself—
"o, wadi the powers ths Rade ;tie se,
To we miners as other. we us."
(Loud laughter.) That hon. and learned gentleman was
not the law. officer of a government which had done any.
thing candid or honourable, but he was the law-officer of
a ricketty administration that had been living from hand
to mouth for the last four months, and that was indebted
to others fur suggestions with reference to the present bill.
It was nut for the law-officer of such au administration to
indulge in gloomy wit.
The ATTOILNEY-GENERAL said he certainly should
not think it right to bandy recrimination and vituperation
with the hon. member for Athlone. The same question
which was asked now had been asked over and over again
The Attorney-General for Ireland was not now in the house
to answer it. (Ironical laughter from the Irish members.)
lie (the Irish Attorney-General) had been in his place the
whole of the evening, and he had not left with any view of
evading the question. It was hardly fair to keep asking
the law officers of the crown to return answers to legal
questions, and, when the answers we're returned, to treat
them in a somewhat unhandsome manner. (Hear,
hear.) The law officers were tired of answering
the same question, and the blame rested upon those ado put
it so frequently. The hon. member for Midhurst and the
Solicitor-General were not in contradiction to each other.
The former had directed his claw, against the rescript in
virtue of which ecclesiastical titles bad been assumed in
England ; and, while it did nut apply directly and home- :
diately to Ireland, it only applied to Ireland in this
namely, that this being all act of the imperial legislature
applying to the whole empire, it applied to Ireland as a, II
las England. The act was declaratory, and applicable to
both countries.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL said the explanation was, that the
act did and that it did nut apply to Ireland.
Atter a few words from Mr. Mousse,
The committee divided—
Fur the amendment 57
Against
MID-DAY SITTINGS.
On returning to the gallery we found
Sir D. /LILL addressing the house. The state of public
business, owing to the protracted nature of these debates,
was most backward. (Heer, hear.) In the last session of
parliament many bills were brought forward, and not pro- I
reeled with; and therefore he (Sir IL Hall) telt that the I
country should not be left in a similar condition tat
present as regarded public business. (Ilear, hear.) Pre-
suming, therefore, that the noble lord the First Minister
of the crown would proceed with this bill on Monday next,
he (Sir IL Hall) begged to suggest that the house should
sit every day at 12 o'clock, in order that they might go on
with the general business of the country; and also that
they might have some assurance from her Majesty's
go,emmeut that it was their intention to press forward
this question in a determined manner. (Cheers.) The
hue. baronet was understood, in conclusion, to move
that the chairman report progress.
Mr. KEOGH said that the representatives of Ireland
always looked for conciliatory remarks from the bon. baronet
the member fur Mary lelxme (Sir 11. 11a11). But it must be
understood, it' the proposition were agreed to to take the
unusual course of deciding on morning sittings, the re-
presentatives of the Irish people!, and the oppo-
nents of the bill, would in that CAW think them-
selves justified in resorting to every means in
their ower of staying the progress of the bill. (" Hear,
hear," and laughter.) Certainly, so far they had not
created any unnecessary delay to this bill. (Laughter.)
At any rate let those who laughed remember the delay
occuaioncel by the government itself in dallying with the
measure, and in delaying the adoption of the propui-
tious of the hon. and learned member for Midhurst until
the last tomcat.
Mr. M. GIBSON objected to the proposition of taking
marring sittings. If that course were adopted, it would
be out of the question to carry ou the important business of
committees. Ile agreed in a great measure with what
had been observed by the hon. and learned member fur
Athloue, that much of the delay in the progress of this
measure was attributable to the conduct of the government
itself.
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY also objected
to the adoption of the system of morning sittings, on the
' ground that it would be necessary in that case to give up
the committees. lie denied altogether that, with the ex-
ception of one or two divisions, there had been display of
Ifactious oppoeition. (Oh, oh
Lord J. RUSSELL—IIIs inclination would be, in the
Ant place, to consult the convenience of the house; but, as
worded the question of morning sittings, he was not pre.
wed to assent at once to the proposal of the hon. member
he Marylebone, and he reserved to himself the discretion
of suggesting that course if it should be found absolutely
✓etessury. Should that necessity arise he should look for
the support of the house in the effort to avoid unfair delay.
(timers.) lie should now assent to the proposition that
Iles chairmen report progress.
Mr. DISRAELI did not think that there was, as yet,
any necessity to resort to so desperate a proposition as that
of the boo. member for Marylebone. It was quite clear
that any government introducing such a measure as this
must have looked forward to a considerable degree of oppo-
sition ; and so far he did not think that that natural excess
which might have been expected had been exceeded.
(Greatßaab' ` It w s also e '^ certain that the es-

respect to only one bull when the) had three before them ? r laughter.) . was , quite -
(Hear, hear.) If it left the law as it was on the 28th of sure had not been well matured, and that much of tho
difficult lich had arisen in proceeding with it was to he
September why declare it ? If it did declare the law, why
refe dYto.6that c.
say that it was not declaratory? (Hear, hear.) The fact After a few wont from M
was there were no two ideas that were consistent or come- from Jr. OORE,
cutive carried out in this bill. (Cheers.) to tit_atain on Monday.
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and obtained WOO
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said if the right hon.
T.::
b°musewulnerenadresCaleldTOMStim. BILL.e
gentleman had the fortune, he would not say the bad
fortune, of not being present at the whole debate ; if before
he took upon himself to say that he alone came to them
with his head entering free from confusion—(laughter and INHABITED HOUSE DUTY BILL.
cheers)—if the bon. gentleman had that good fortune, it This bill was read a second time.
must arise solely from the circumstance of not having to SALE OF ARSENIC REGULATION BILL.
listen to the various discussions which arose on every side On the order of the day for the second reading of this
of the bran in opposition to the bill. What he intended to bill,
detest* Ilie right hon. gentleman, and what he did not Mr. WAKLEY suggested a postponement, on the
this& It seemeary to state to the hon. and learned gentle- ground that the measure had not undergone sufficient die-
ow
cheers from the Irish members)—not cession in detail.
Aka ow &respect to him, but from a great res- Sir G. GREY complained that opposition should be
gnat ant bhp understanding, believing that he must offered at this stage of the bill, and declined a postpone-
ly comprehend what had been so often went.
1 libesal hear, hear,- and laughter)—but what he After a few words from Mr. STANFORD, the bill was read
did intend to state to the right hon. gentleman was this : 1 a third time and passed.
The right hon. gentleman, in stating what had occurred, f The Stamp Duties (Ireland) Continuance Bill passed
omitted to mention a part of the question, and i through committee and was reported. Ordered to be read
what he (the Solicitor-General) observed in reply. , a third time on Monday.
He mid that we were omitting the case of Ireland altogel Thi= as Appointments to Ofdees Bill was read a third time
ther, and his (the Solicitor-General's) answer was, not and ; were also the Hainault Forest, the Process
that we were making any new law, but that we were de- and ramie' (Ireland), aid the Highways (South Wales) ;
cluing the law. It was, in fact, a judicial deeksion. It WM

The Woods, Forests, &c., Bill was read a second time.
To be committed that day week.
The order of the day for committee on the Common
Lodging-house Bill was discharged ; the bill being referred
to a select committee.
On the order of the day for going into committee on the
St. Albans Bribery Bill, Mr. AHXWRIOHT opposed the mo-
tion, and tho gallery was cleared for a division. None,
however, took place, and the bill passed through com-
mittee.

The Farm Buildings Bill passed through committee pro
forms, on the understanding that Mr. Baillie Cochrane
should have full opportunity of proposing his amendments
when the committee rat for business.
Mr. F. MAULE observed that the bill was of consider-
' able importance, and that the Lord Advocate did not ap-
prove of the proposed amendments.
On the motion of Lord ASIILEV, the select committee on
i Lodging Houses Bill was nominated:—Lord Ashley, Mr.
Henley, Sir J. Pakington, Mr. T. Egerton, Mr. Pennant,
Mr. G'rey, Mr. Shiney, Colonel Thompson, and Sir H.
Verney.
Col. 81BTHORP postponed till Tuesday his motion,
" To call the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer
to the frauds on the revenue committed by the travelling
vans, with regard to the various advertisements attached to I
them, and for which the public journals are compelled to
pay a duty for each advertisement," when he intimated his
intention of asking for leave to bring in a bill upon the
subject.
Ihe house then adjourned at a quarter-past one o'clock. ,

SACRED HARMONIC SOCIETY, Exeter Hall.
C mduetor, Mr. COSTA.
MAY neat, May 30, wit be repeated Hamlet's “MF.391311."
—Vocalists: 311 r Catherine Hayes, Miss Hirob, Mir Dolby, 31iss
M. Witlisrn• Mr. Sims He, rm. rind Hear Formes. The Orchestra,
the moat eilesslve available in Exeter Hall, will consist of (Inaludlna
IS doable bums) nearly 700 pi ',formers. Tlerke:s, S. Reserved,
as.; (Antral Area, numbered mats, 10.. AL e,,en—at the sodery's
Odhe, 6. in garter ihll, w ol Mr. HOW LEY, 33, Charing-erase
To 1p• event the We:appointments flow .o frequently occurring to
visitors from he country, unable to procure tlcke.s marries' In Lon-
don, I wtles arta our to attend any of the Oratorio Perfornanees of
this satiety (which aid take pace on the Eridsy evenings in May and
June), um recommended ti forward rorit-ornee order. to 6, Lacier
Hall, payab:e to Hobert Howley, at CtuiringsCrues °Rice, whin the
tickets alb be sent by neat post.

JuAt publl4o. price
LOGIC for the MILLION; a familiar Exposition
a the .trt of Itianonlng, By a Fellow of the Royal Society.
Tht. cenainly the moo u.eful and rano' smu•lnibook on the An"(
Lo ever tnet All the evti Are drawitfrnu fain 11 iar wri Una..
Punch I. quoted in•we OM. Co. 10.,,m1 example, ...ratan oil.
hart ♦ TIVIIpte on 1/33141.14.. and wot k. nu poitlril economy and gene,
rat literature, much in ',quo. The example...if rea.owinn t.y fal4" by
by de4,lipt on, and by vitrioue mode% u well
of fa..lakies and (ales 11,....11111.f. are all well chosen, ant erene.
rely 11111411 M 1.11, truth or mane important frv:t, Or are very ainu•hut
Ithile they explain th, art of lode. (loner illy, too, the autl...r I..ts eor.
root 00 he I,enter:Wnla;. We hope that "f. t.e fur the will
he read h) the to hllnu, It will advance their knowk4ige, Will Improve
their I:vie, theft 4)10 of wri,ing, and their akin ai rx.a.w.exi.u." —Thu
_ .

• Lon lon Longman an 4 Co.,

Beautifully printml in aro. twice Ts. .;J., or restate Rea le. 6d., Maw
trawl by So splendid Plenum, grogram! by 1.0011(.1t MIA.II.
DEDICATED Tit 111,4 Rit VAL HIGHNESS PRINCE ALBERT,
fZILBEItTS 1/ESCHII'TI()N OF THE eItYS-
kA TAL PALACE, its Architectural History and Constructive Mar-
vels. By PbT6ll HYMAN and CH %MA, Fowl-RI, Jun., Ewan, The En•
03,. Inc. depict the talons peculiaritles and novelties of Has wonderful
Malin.% a.. well a, the Machinery, he., used In coastrucUogg. The
combined ambition of the Promictor, Authors. and Amide, has been to
produce a Book worthy of be sambaed by every VLator to the Es.
hil4nun Ile an atra,tive awl interestiu ; memento.
"The authors e tidbit, by means of a writs of von clever cnmvind.
its gra lad Immo,'" toa complete state."—The Examiner.
" The Isrolt N Wool on ode and profewd-nal documents, and fully
illattatml by plates. The loot del or lahl before the Committee. and
buildings previously erected for similar purtk,mk aro also glvint."—Slow.
titer.
We most warmly recommend rola history of the Crystal atace."—
The Standard of Freedom.
" The work embolus. a .artoty of intending facts; tho whole Illus-
trated by tinily excellent Illustrations in .wicr to mousy an idea of We
auxUarkw empboal to full. ate awl bring to p^zfection thug glorious
work."—Thu Weekb Dispatch.
London . J 21,114.11 (Albert, 4:4. Patornoderlow. Orders teethed by all
Boeluellen, to.

cut erpreofs.