The Express.
London, England, 1848-07-24 00:00:00

which they were formed is publicly known—known to every
member of this house, and known to every reader of a
newspaper in these kingdoms—yet the means of pro-
curing evidence of what passes in them, t heir pro-
ceedings being secret, is not such as enables
doe
government government to put them down with any cill
say, sir, with any facility; because if a new law were
peened, however stringent, some fresh evasion, some new
form of law might be raked up to defeat the object of the ac
—the clubs might be continued in as great numhers, with
as much force upon public opinion, and with as powerful an
organisation as ever. So, likewise, in respect to the march.-
Mg of these clubs. From the accounts of'"' what passheedlaw in
Cork and elsewheee many would irltf
againstten:et:gig—a very stringent law—would reach the
,
parties so engaged—that it would be applicable to such
!kelt '
cases ; but with respect to these cases spin there is very con
siderable difficulty. All military terms are avoided. Every-
thing expressly
.forbidden by the letter of the law is care_
tully eluded, in order that the object which those con-
spirators have in view may be attained wthout piscine them-
selves at the same time within the powei of the law. But,
sir, after what I have stated, and the information which the
house has otherwise, and indeed the open notoriety
of the fact, there can be no doubt that there
are associations in Ireland, formed with the
aw inten-
and
tion of subverting the authority of the l
of the crown of this country, and which mean
to effect that object by farce of arms. (Cheers.) II such be
the case, air, then I know no remedy so straightforward, so
direct in its object, so immediate in its purpose, as securing
the persons of those who am at the head of the movement,
without in any manner endangering the persons or even
putting to any inconvenience the innocent, by that mode
of acting which is commonly known as the suspension
of the Habeas Corpus Act. (Loud cheers.) Whatever
meaaures we may frame, or whatever may he necessary to
meet particular evils in the special shape whichble they m
ay
ay I
assume, there is now a necessity for a bill to ena the L
Lieutenant of Ireland to secure the persons of those who are
suspected of being guilty of high treason. (Cheers.)
forward, then, to ask this house of parliament to grant to
the executive government this power. (Cheers.) I ask it
now. I feel I might have been justified in asking it at an
earlier leveed. (Leudcheering from the coneervative hf lichee.)
But, sir, in weighing the question, which I have done with
much anxiety during months past, it has seemed to u e
that any extraordinary law suspending the liberties of a part
of the United Kingdom prieseel by a mere majority of this
house—passed without a very general, if not an almost unani-
moan, concurrence on the part of this house—passed amidet
conflicting debate—pass, d when many honourable lovers of
peace in the house might have doubted its necessity—would
have lost more than half its efficiency. (Hear, hear.) On
opiniors of that majority only, while in the minority there
reaching Ireland it would be treated as the expression of the
aught have been counted mm of undoubted integrity, and
lovers of peace and order in society, but ahoy uld not be
persuaded that the necessity existed and hat such a
law passed under these circumstances would lose a great part
of its efficacy, and not tend, as I should wish it to teed,
to the complete pacification of that coentry. (Ileac, hear.)
I have, therefore, sir, waited until in my mind and that of
my colleagues the evidence was se clear, so notorious, se
glaring, that I am satisfied the consictiore the almost uniser-
sal conviction, of beth houses of parliament must be, that
what we ask is absolutely necessary and ought to be granted.
(Cheers.) But, sir, 1 wish likewise to say, that it it is the
full conviction of the house that such a me- sure should be
pruned, I trust that no time will be lost—(cheers)—in arm-
ing the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland with the powers
I now ask for him, and which he declares it is necessary he
should possess, if he is to pow se any means of stopping in-
eurreetem in that country. (Corers.) When I tale this I
ask that which I think is in the interest, not merely of those
who would uphold the constitution of this eenntry, o: those
who would defend the throne and maintain the in-
tegrity of the empire, but I ask it on behalf of
those who would be sure to be the sufferers in
case of an unsuccessful outbreak in Ireland. (Loud cheirs )
A protracted debate upon such a sebjeet can do no good;
smile it may do harm by giving time for an incipient incur.
rection to spring up ; and with this measure, which is sure
to pm, and with the means which the government of a great
country like this always has at its disoosal to put down ail
attempts at insurrection, there can be no doubt whatever
that the attempt would be put down. But we should put it
down at a vast loss of life—at ti,e hazard of the pence, it
the hazard of the means of livelihood of many of her Ma-
jesty's subjects in Ireland. We should put it down after an
outbreak and convulsion ; but we should not be able to pre-
vent the outbreak from taking place. 'Cheers.) I say,
then, that it is fur the interest of all that such a measure
as I now propo'e should be paned. (Hear, hear.)
If there are gentlemen—and there may be many—who,
although they think this measure necessary, are yet of
opinion that the whole duty of the government has not been
pertormed—(much cheering)—that we bare not in this
session produced and carried into effect those measures,
whatever they may he, which are useful, and perhaps, as
they think, necessary for the well-being of Ireland, I put
forward only this. An hon. gentleman has given not:ce of
his intention to bring forward the whole question of tbe state
of Ireland. I shall be most reedy after this bill shall have
passed this holm to give every facility toe such a debate—to
meet any such charge, and to submit, if the house thinks tit,
to any censure which they think the conduct of the
government has deserved—(hear, hear) ; but I do beg of
this house and those who are of that opinion to
reserve till that time the expression of those views
—(hear)—and not let a deb.te which should be con-
fined to this one senject—whether this measure is necessary
or no—he extended into various matters of opinion that
cannot but lead to a conflicting and prolonged debate, and
thereby delay that which is essential to the peace of Ireland.
(Hear, hear.) Sir, I ask, then fore, that the house will per-
mit me to introduce this bill ; and I ask likewise that, if they
do sanction it, they will have that sanction speedily carried
into effect. (Hear, hear.) No man can say what may be
the consequence of the want of those powers for a short
time ; and I ask those who are of opinion that this measure
should be passed—who are of opinion that those powers are
necevsery—not to render themselves responsible for the
delay of that which may be the saving of life in Ireland.
(Cheers.) I believe, in my conscience that this measure it
calculated to prevent insurrection, to preserve internal
peace, to preserve the unity of this empire, and o
secure the throne of these realms, and the free
institetions of this country. If there are other questions,
let th. mbe brought forward and con.id-red upon another
occasion. For my part, I stand here responsible for propos-
ing this measure. I sand here responsible for not proposing
it earlier. I stand here responsible for rot delaying it now.
(Hear, hear.) I and my colleagues are sensible of it. We
accept that responsibility, and however painful, however
odious, the powers may be which we ask, having accepted
our reeponsibilityll confidently ask the house to accept theirs,
and to be mindful of the blessings which they will confer by
doing so, and of the risks which ny any other course they
will incur. (The noble lord resumed his sea. amidst general
cheering, which was particularly enthusiatic on the censer-
vasitivre aideF
of
O'CONNORthehou se.)
said that the noble lord had been on
this occasion true to the principle which had invariably die•
tinguished the conduct of the Whigs towards Ireland,
ramely that of demanding coercion first, promising that it
shetild he followed by remedial measures, and failing to fulfil
that premise. When the noble Cord first brought leeward
his Crown and Government Protection Bill, he (Mr. O'Con-
nor) told him that by thus stopping the free expression of
public opinion he would only give rise to the establishing o:
secret clubs; and that he would, in pursuance of the same
poky, come to that house again before long. for still greater
powers of coercion. He admitted with the noble
lord that the people who produced a revolution
were the greatest sufferers, and if revolution there
Amite he he accused the nob), '-ird im I hi., colleagues with
being tile cause of it, by fl-st suppteseing pahueal agitation,
and promising social improvement, and then giving nothing
but coercion. It wee his firm belief that the measure now
proposed, instead of preventinv, would only hasten sedition
and insurrection. Every word spoken by the noble lord
only provedthat as he had hitherto so he intended henceforth ,
to govern Ireland by means of patronaee. But it WAS not so
much the noble lord and his government that be blamed, as
the Irish landlords and the Irish members sitting upon the
benches behind him, who as long as they were benefited by
his patronage or were honoured by invitations to his table
eared little for the real interests of their country. He (Mr.
O'Connor) had always proclaimed his horror of bloodshed,
seal invariably told the people that no benefit could accrue
to them front a revolution ; but the noble lord was mach
mistaken if he supposed that a starving p epic could
Ilse deterrent from attempting it by the suspension
of the habeas corpus. The real object of this bill was to
other leaders of the repeal movement. He (Mr. O'Connor) '
apprehend at once Messrs. O'Brien and Meagher, and those
we. not fora repeal of the union, he was for total separation.
Yen, his hopes, wishes, and aspirations were, that Ireland
I would one day rid herself of the yoke and dominion of
England.
Lord J. RUSSELL h. re significantly called the h
I gentleman's attention to the oath of aileeiance, whic't he at
the same time, and amidst the meat vocif sous chtering,
flung across the table.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR considered that he would be a traitor
and • rebel to his country it he did not wish to see it re-
lieved from such dominion, and believed that he best dis-
charged his duty to his sovereign under that oath by en-
deavouring to preserve to her her dominions. (Ironical
cheers and laughter.) If those timely concessions were not
made to Ireland, so vauntingly boasted of by the noble lord
at Edinburgh, he now foretold that this last resource of whig
government—the suspension of the habeas corpus, would re-
duce to pauperism first the Irish, and afterwards the
English landlords. As far as Ireland was concerned,
the whole question was one of catholic and pro-
testant, and until they did justice to the catholic
population they could expect neither peace nor contentment.
Was it to be expected that the Irish people were to be satis•
fied with the noble lord and return him thanks for sending
over 8,000,0001. to stop the existing excitement against the
poor law ? (Cries of " Oh," and a laugh.) He hoped the
Irish members would not allow this bill to pass without de-
sibteples.tih,:tntolitiseeoen ccrrefedirorthpounerwamenroth.rreeothismfaf ythatimgirst
euvhaetouruthuseepe;thwanimehiridchthgiall,voavise talthhhlepethymmewinPeoeisnp.:.
as faithful to their political creed as the protectionists, they
might hope to oppose euccessfully. (Laughter.) The right
hen, baronet the member for Tamworth would he knew,
acting with more courtesy than was shown him by the
noble lord when he introduced• measure of much less 'secu-
rity, support this bill; and yet, he believed, tee moneyed
classes and the people of Ireland looked upon him as
the only man likely to save the country from revolution.
It would be impossible I. go to war with Ireland, and re-
main at peace at home. Take away the rents from the land-
lords and they would soon become chartists. (Laughter.)
lie had no doubt this bill would pass both houses eptly, if
ministers wished it. He understood the Irish better than
the noble lord ; and he was certain that the effect of this bill
would be to muse an immediate revolution. If, instead of

arming Lord Clarendon with these powers, he had hese lelt
to carry nut his agricultural improvem- eta. is would here
done much more good. It was impowthic much longer be
keep a starving people in subjection.
Si' It. PEEL—Sir, by one of the c .mplimenis paid why
the hon. gentleman who has just spoken 1 am griddled. I
am gratin d by his anticipation that I should wive * the
measures proposed by the goverame. t a decisive wad sera/
support—(cheers)--e support not qualified by the reinieb.
cruces of put contention—a support at qu dified by pee*
recrimincions.(Cheers.) I look at the nate Irelea4; to
at the combination which exists ; I lads at the aymal duo
part es who feed that combination. (Hear j I give theft
for vi rarity ; and, doing so, I twee teat thee
exists in Irelana at it:: moment a wick, el cieepireey to ilia
privo the Queen of her dominions. ; WV teeny my
inaaession, and trusting to the avowal 01 too. earl es tacit-
.rtsee, I take my part with the crown ii tins Uniied Kine.
dont against the conspirators who sc. k
(ownn..) I won't qualify the value at toy support by a
long speech. (Hear.) I don't blame the g .verounnt even
for their delay in introducing these ineesuies. Heir hear.)
think the government ought to be very tialteuri , bears
pr.,posing to impose great restrictions like these. I due say
that, at an earlier period, a cue might hove hto-TI suede old
tor placing the liberty of individual+ at the el,Cfl^ll.l a the
gust rn neat; but I agree with the nithLe lord that, whoa
proposals of that nature are mode, there °ugh, to te a time
and eecieive in:pressiou on the miss) of this house, :red diet
public al-o, thot there is no opportunity tor tort r delay,
and that the necessity has arisen whien juiditi, the measurel
and which will ensure for it a genteel eupport. Reiter,.
I believe the question at issue iu Ireland is n e a question
whether the union shall be repealed or rot.
I believe that it you did nothing tioss , too would
have, during the recess, a deselati ag7
coevirtom is that the authority of the erner• souk) bs
uitimat :ly successful, after great deem:at:on of property,
:deer great loss of life, after the loss at ten lie, s .f mazy
innoceet persons, and the loss of the lives ef many who km
join:rt in the rebellion from a doubt a. te this stfiieneyee
the power, possessed by government ir sup:o.ll=g it.
(fitter, hear) But this I believe, if the n shauld hM,
in reestablishing its authority, you will thi n hove subeti-
, toted ler the government under which jos. ray far the
must true', the bunt, the most sanguine. y dcooosism that
ever curs. d any age or people. (Linei cheers l Ii we
needed any assurance of tbs. we have it ee the ndiuy
doctrines promulgated by those by whom tide new p is
tO be established. (Hear, hear.) Have eot ise• e a refer-
ee's made to the value of the crops now standing pude??
Hasa 1 i.ot seen distinct encouragement 5.0,•n t the muses,
to the physical strength of the country, h. lomhtse with the
nn h who are superior in intelligence ; net ri.it they tr.ay
effectually undermine the impend authority, not that they
may take measures for ultimately repealing the u n, but
that they may at once resort to pillege, for the per_
plit of dividing smougst themselves the spoile of
'heir surreys ? (Loud cheers.) Tn.r. Is t: e mede
by which the designs and the power tee men
who are coeducting this combination are T.i b, rein iced. I
will not now go into any other question meetied with
general government. I believe that the ileiorei imminent;
I 13:lieve that it there hex been too inoce eelay, that of
itself vinstitutes a reason for now proceadee wet the more
(C errs). I, fur one, am perk,. tl‘ pr.. lima te
this endure,
d(Culheeben
insist oft no ordinary forms. (CM en.) I think the govern.
meat are justified ir. epking for tbis mmaure b eve that
the measure, the powfir to apprehend upon abate and
keep in confinement, is fully warranted b. the en-tonguing
—considering that the conspiracy is not spranan time, that
It is
opnostshi possible •
wit:ye:, :meets::
it is not a conspiracy of the people, but r (-admiral., of
delay
traitors--(cheers)- and it is a case in skim* I thtnis the pre.
traces and declar-,a,'„ot, ot the ~o.t,e, jusse•
no
may be necessary, to which the goverment have declared
the it intention of asking the authority lit piriiement ; and
lashkoitkgPe tfhoerrethose measures, wheth r they he oirentel against
the club., or against those shooting nailenes of which we
have heard, where the hat of the Lord Lieutenant is made the
butt at which they shoot. (Hear.) Who c doubt what is
the intention of &eat proceedings ? (Cheer.) And if the
governmect should require additional posers for main-
taining the authority of the crown, I hope that no delay
will be interposed to their stating what thine additional
powers are. (Cheers.) I should think t• unbecoming, on
the part of any member of the house, to urge additional
measures on the government. The responsinitity rests upon
them (hear, hear); and I never will ur:e tio m to take
measures ot greater responsibility than the eccasion may
ppear to them to demand. In this case the question os
simple ; nothing but the strongest necessity Clll justify a
demand for the suspension of the Hab-as Corpus Act. That
makes immediate action the more desirable ; and I for one
will consent to the suspension of any foim tor :he sake of
providing a remedy for the impending evil (Cheers.)
With r. spect to the speech which the hon. member for
Nottingham has now made, I will tell the hon. gentleman
that I will defend the crown of E. gland agrivat thee mock
" Kings of Munster "to whom he has r leered. (Cheers.)
ell says they do not sh out for the King of Slunieer— not yet.
mHear, hear.) I for one am
V not prepared to exchange the
ild supremacy of Queen Victoria for this new King of
Munster. (Cheers.) I did give the hon. gentleman credit
for being bold, manly, wad straightforward ; hat in that
part of his speech in which he drew a contrest betseen him-
self and other agitator, he add that he eir u..e was the friend
o: separation. Well, the noble lord showed hie the oath by
which he had sworn to bear true allegiance to her Majesty,
on which the hon, gentleman said : " Am I fee fulfilling
the oath of allegiance when I am trying to secure to her Ma-
jesty the allegiance of her faithful subjects in Ireland ?"
That is whst the late Mr. O'C ,nnell might have said, who
was the enemy of separation, and who wished to maintain
the golden link of the crown. It might have been Foible
for him to say, " I am for a separate legislature, and for the
supremacy of the crown in England." But I did think
the hon. gentleman in his boldness and marlines- meant to
declare that he was for a separation of Ireland tram England,
and if by that he meant that Ireland should still remaia con-
nected with the United Kingdom, mid fulfil its eegageraents
u such, then why was he scared by the oath ? U on seeing
and being reminded of the oath, he said : " Ain I not faith-
fully discharging the obligations of that oath in trying to
reserve to her Majesty the supremacy in her Engiish domi-
nions ?" That the oath was taken without equivocation I
have no reason to doubt. (Applause.) That cee allegiance
promised was an allegiance in respect to Ireland ea
fully and as completely as in respect to England
I must also assume, unless the hon. gentleman refill/
took the oath with a remit reservation that he would
bee faithful and loyal iubject in this part of the United
Kingdom. but reserved to himself a perfect fatted., of acting,
in Ir land, and the perfect right. f severing Ireland from ha
Majesty's dominiens,-1 latitude of construction which would
certeinly render the oath valueless. (Hear, near.) He asks
whether we think it possible to maintain a limited monarchy,
after the example we have had of what has occurred in
France, Italy, Germany, and other Europeanstates. Sir,
I will say not a word with respect to the internal administra-
tion of the affairs of oth. r countries. I have done all I could,
since the commencement of these disturbances, humbly le
discourage any re Sections on what war naming in Paris re
elsewhere. But when the hon. gentleman holds out the
ezample of what has taken place in other countries as a
reason why we should distrust the advantage,—or the diffi-
culty, if he will have it so,—the difficulty or the advantage,
be it which it may, of maintaining the monarchy in thin
country,—then I have a right to state that, looking at what
has taken plays in the chief arena of theft Voll.ll6ollltry power,
—taking Paris and France as my example,—lookicg at the
government which existed before February, the securities for •
public liberty, the state of the revenue, the condition of the
menu tact urine classes, the principles that were arty' upon with
respect t the reward of labour—lookWag at what weed ia
Fawnary. •na at •• bat rms.!, itter an in:cre d of t':: e or
f earn mouths, i.. J une, when the new government. tuuuded
upon the Mutinies of February, was «epos el to the most
violent cesicuseion from those whose hopes had been deep-
pointed;—looking at all this, avoiding reflection upon it,
and only drawing from it an example for the guidalicsof the
people of this country. I say that, so fa from what has
paused inducing me to distrust the advantage of a limited
monarchy—to believe that its Lunn :adonis are less wenn,
that there is less of affeetionate devotedness towards the
person of ha sovereign• or less of rational convicion is
favour of the advantages of &limited monarchy—l look at the
experience of the last six months, and I retain an increased
conviction that the monarchy ot this county.- is FCCIIIM
and is endeared by ne.es consideratioas to the affecti mate
support and devotion of oho people. (Loud ,hers.)
Mr. R. OSBORNE said it was not his intention to •ollow
the example of the hon. member for Nottingham, though no
one would suspect him of having any undue preerence or
liking for her Majesty's minister.; but he would make no
: attack on them now, nor on the Irish party, whom the hon.
meinhir for Nottingham hod described as the slaves of the
Treasury, and whom he believed to be honourable and highs
minded men. He trusted thi y would take hi. advice, and
not become the hacks of the hon. member for Nottingham.
(Hear.) The speech cc that has. gentli min wan perfectly
advocate of nothing less than separation ; and
it his the...tines
I consistent with his position: he had declared •imself the
were carried out, they would lead to that result. lie had
heard with great pain the noble lord's announcement of the
preceding night. His first impression was, to take the
pusillanimous course of absenting himself from the division;
I but on reflection, he hal thought it would not be worthy of
his position, aa a member of the house, if he did not take
, his full share of the responsibility, and come down sod give
I his reasons for supporting the noble lord in the first instance,
and his views on the prevent position of affairs. If this we'
merely a cry Co; the repeal of the union--a party got up to
repeal the union by means in accordance with the constitu•
. tion—he should be very glow to support arbitrary measures.
But, believing in his heart and conscience that the cry Ea
repeal of the union was merely a pretext with these inee
ad
for murder and pillage—(hear, hear)— should
be restrained, by having voted against a former
coercion bill, from speaking his mind boldly in ths
face of the country. The noble lord had rather under-
: stated what had happened at 'one of the meeting, te
I which he referred. A man distrusted by the country 1,11
by the prints, and having no moral or personal weight, Ina
d the crowds to the top of a mountain, and said to then,
almost in the words of Scripture: " All these will I give
you, if you will fall down (he might have added), and wet-
ship me." (Hear.) While boldly speaking the sentiments
of liberty, he (Mr. Osborne) would never be a party to tear-
ing asunder the ties that connected Ireland with this
country. (Cheers.) He looked upon himself as the bee
friend of liberty and order, by arming her Majesty's govern-
ment with this power, the slightest that could be given theta
at this juncture. It was a measure of mercy to lock up
these men, that they might not be the means of deluging
Ireland with blood. (Cheers.) But he could not give his
rote for continuing the measure till March, 1849. In the
event of its being passed, it would be much more proper
fos
the house not to be prorogued, but to continue sitting from
month to month, until they had passed, not only this Mat"
sure, but laeere remedial measures for Ireland. (Heat)
He had been chae‘e,ed with advocating vague and insiefients