The Express.
London, England, 1851-02-15 00:00:00

Mr. F. MAULE said he was glad to see the impatience
of the house to bring the debate to a close. lie could
not help being struck with a remark that had fallen from
his right hon. friend (Mr. Milner Gibson) that the matter
wag out of the jurisdiction of the home ; and that it ought
to confine its duties to matters connected entirely with
taxation and the ledger. (Cheers.) But the house had duties
,superior to that. It was its duty to see that those rights
end liberties which had been handed down to us by our fore-
fathers should be delivered unimpaired to those who were
Ito follow alter us. (Cheers.) But his right hon. friend
I seemed to endeavour to catch the attention of the house
more by the misrepresentation of his noble friend than by any
any other plan. In the first plane, he had totally forgotten
to refer to the speeches which had fallen from his noble
friend, hut had stated that, from his chair in Downing-
street, the noble lord had issued a certain letter in which
he had taken upon himself to instruct the country in spi-
ritual and ecclesiastical doctrines, His noble friend had
done no such thing. (Cheers.) Ile stated distinctly that
he had been guilty of no such act of presumption, but in
all that referred to matters of an ecclesiastical character he
had quoted the words of the Bishop of London. (Cheers.)
Then, again, it had been said that before his noble friend in-
troduced this measure he had taken counsel with the Bishop
of London and with the Archbishop of Canterbury.
His noble friend had distinctly denied that also, for, on tire
contrary, he had informed the archbishop and rishop who
he had resolved to do. Both he and his colleagues had
framed the measure entirely upon their own responsibility,
end were indebted for advice to no ecclesiastical authority,
es indeed they had consulted no clerical authority what-
ever. (peer, hear.) Ilia right hon. friend went oa
further to say, that it was the noble lord's letter which
stirred up all the strife in the country. Now, it wee a
well-known fact that the l'ope's unwarrantable
bull had been in the country three weeks at
least, before the letter was ever written at all ;
and the bur had drawn and itself signed the very remark-
able petition which bad emanated from them before that
letter appeared before the public. (Heart Therefore, he
said. his noble friend had been most unfairly dealt with, and
the part he had taken in guiding the public opinion would
ere long receive the gratitude of every class of the commu-
nity, and even of the house itself. (('heers) Mr. Matile
then proceeded to rebut the assertion of Mr. Oswald, that
the tape had hutfollowed the example set by the leaders of
the free-kirk movement in Scotland. There was no analogy
betwevu the cases. Before the unprovoked act of the
Vatican a happy tranquillity had prevailed in the country,
and the acerbities of sects and faiths were disappear-
ing under the influence of the tolerant police which
the present ministry had always upheld. This was
now suddenly disturbed. Passing from this subject to
the state of the Roman catholics before this unhapy awes.
sion, Mr. F. Maule observed that the penal laws had been
introduced more to protect the sovereign from the cabals of
the Roman catholies than with any desire to interfere with
their faith. Step by step, as our protestant constitution
had become consolidated and firm, had these penal laws
vanished from the statute book, or fallen into disuse ; ro
that in August lust the Roman catholics were in the full
enjoyment of every spiritual privilege, and in the full
exercise of their religion. Their church was enabled to
follow out its discipline, both in Ireland and in England,
with an efficiency that she had not possessed in
this country et least for 200 years. She did sot
complain that she could not administer her sacra-
ments, or fulfil all her rites, or do her spiritual
duties to her people as effectually under the system
of vicariates in August last as she had done fur the
2110 years precedihg. (Cheers.) In fact, the whole horizon
wore a calm and peaceful aspect. If he might except a few
growls from the lion of St. Jarleth's, the whole scene was
perfectly tranquil, and was such as certainly gave great
encouragement to toleration. (liver, hear.) But on a
sudden the while was disturbed. A decree emanated from
the Court of Rome which took them entirely by surprise.
But it scented that hon. gentlemen were not disposed to be-
lieve that the government were taken by surprise; but the
noble lord had stated in 1848 most distinctly that sorer:l:4hr
wasconeented he never would consent to the step which had
recently been taken. (Hear.) But to whom was the stra-
tifying state of things, which he had been describing, prin-
cipally owing? It was attributable to no one more than
his noble friend, whose conduct in this matter wonlii in
fact have earned, if that had been possible, a claim
to the ;liveliest gratitude of the Irish people. (Cheers.)
Was there any other Irishman, or any friend of civil and
religious liberty amongst English members, who would re-
echo that sentiment? Sir Robert Peel was too generous to
assume that credit for it measure which belonged almost
entirely to those who had opposed his policy. It was true
he had tho courage to carry that. emancipation into effect,
hut in doing so, he hail stated that to the noble lord (Rue-
sell). and to the great party who for veers hail contended
for that emancipation when out of office, end who might
have been in office but for their feeling with respect to that
measure, was the credit of it due. Yet the hon. member
for Carlow said that to Sir Robert Peel, and not to the
made lord and the greet party of whom he was the head
and ornament, were Roman catholics indebted for the
blessings of emancimition. Ile maintained that the course
which government bad taken in this matter was one that they
were imperatively called en to take in defence of the pro-
testant constitution of this country, which had been most
wantonly and ungratefully assailed. (Hear, bear.) An
hon. gentleman had said that the act of the Pope imposed
the canon law upon the catholic laity, who voluntarily
came forward to submit to it. lie would say boldly that no
earnest catholic could give a voluntary submission to the
canon law. The suhritission was imperative, the obedience
absolute. (Hear, hear.) In Kim( of that, he need only
refer to that address which hail emanated from the Roman
catholics of this country, carried up to the Queen by Lord
Howard and others, in which they declared that obedience
to their spiritual superiors and to the canon law of the
church was a matter of virtue in them. (Ilene hear.) He
might be allowed to say a word in reference to the duties of
the office which he tilled. Ile had done all In his power to
provide for the spiritisql comforts of the Roman catholic sol-
diery, whether in health or in sickness. (Hear.) Care was
taken that on the sahhath and on their saint-days nothing
but imperative duties should stand between them and the
discharge of their religious obligations. In standing be the
measure which the government had introduced, he did so
as a protestant legislator, and from no feeling either of
hatred to his catholic fellow eounnien, or of antipathy to
the religion which they proftwed. Ile respected their
religion, though he did not agree with them. (,fear,
hear.) Ile should be' swayed by no considerations hut those
of duty; he would be deterred by no fears or frowns, but
would do his duty in the matter us became a sincere and
loyal protestant, an independent member of that house, and
the servant of a sovereign who had a paramount duty to
perform. (Cheers.)
Mr. SCULLY having briefly opposed the measure,
Col. SIIITHORP, though be possessed no confidence in
the ministry, and had witnessed umumerable evils resulting
from the Act of Emancipation, would nut refuse to allow
the introduction of a measure designed to vindicate the
dignity and independence of the crown. (Loud cries of
o Divide.")
Mr. MLNTZ trusted the house would excuse him for
detaining them a short time while be explained the mo-
tives which induced him to give his vote for the introduc-
tion of the bill. lie looked upon the present question es
one of the most disagreeable that had come before the
public since he took any part its political life. (Hear, hear.)
Up to that moment he had taken no part in any proceedings
or discussions on this question, wishing to hear its merits
fully discussed, more particularly in that house, in °nit r
that he might be üble to conic to a just conclusion
between both parties. (Hear, hear.) Most of the mem-
bers of that house were, perhaps, aware that a meeting
had been held in Birmingham on the subject, and that
parties were so equally divided, that no resolutiou had
tern come to. He was present at that meeting, and it wee
probable that even with the little influence which he pos-
sessed, if he interfered in favour of any course, that course
would have been adopted; but so determined was ho not to
interfere, that he took no steps whatever in the matter.
He was inclined to say, from the difficulties and con-
troversies which this question bad occasioned between
both parties, A plague on both your churches."
(" Hear, hear," and laughter.) so person felt
leas on religious questions than he did. (Much laughter.)
If hon. gentlemen allowed him to finish the sentence they
would have no cause to laugh. Whet he was going to say
was that he never questioned any person as to his religion
when he was hiring a servant or a workmun—(hear, hear)
and wished to carry out that principle. On looking at the
practice of Roman catholic countries he found that the Pope
had nut the power of making bishops in any country without
an understanding with and the consent of the sovereign power.
Ile would give the Roman catholic' every right that they
had had hitherto, but he did not think they should have
power now which they did not possess even before the Re-
formation. Another argument which weighed with him on
this question was this: lie had reed history, and all history
told him that where the catholic religion was established
the people did not enjoy religious liberty. (Hear, hear.)
He mentioned these two points in order that he might be
enlightened on the subject if he was wrong. lie had some
doubts as to how he should decide in reference to this ques-
tion. He should vote, however, for the introduction of the
bill, reserving to himself the right of taki such a course
afterwards as he might think fit. (Loud cries of
Divide.")
Mr. BROTHERTON said he had taken no part in the
discussions upon this subject, nor had he any intention of
taking any part in the debate. Ills hon. friend,' the mem-
bers for Manchester had placed him in a rather painful
situation. (A laugh.) Manchester and Salford wore inti-
mately connected, and they might almost be said to form
the same constituency. Now, he had reason to believe that
the sentiments expressed by those bon. gentlemen were not
the sentiments of the great majority in those places. (Loud
cheers.) He would not yield to any man in his desire to
promote civil and religious liberty. lie bad never given a
vote against either, and he hoped he never should. Ile
voted for the introduction of this bill because eminent law-
yers and distinguished statesmen had said that the rights of
the sovereign had been infringed, and the independence of
the nation invaded. (Hear' hear.) Ik did not look upon
this as a religious question, but as one connected with the
civil rights of her Majesty's subjects. lie believed the Ro-
man catholics of the country themselves were opposed
to the recent
.proceedings of the court of Rome.
No persons enjoyed greater influence in both the bo-
roughs to which he referred than some of the Roman catho-
lic inhabitants, and he begged to read an extract from
a letter which he had received from a gentleman of that
begging
him to send him a copy of the
Persuasion.
bill, he said, '`We are—ceinfldeet that unless the govern-
ment will
shureh may tonic into possession of, they'
will pans under
protect ell charities and properties which our
the sole control of the court of Rome. (Hear, hear.) As
an Englishman I ask to have those charities admisiotereil