The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-21 00:00:00

NAVAL.

ADMIRALTY, MAY 20. APPOINTMENTS. Se-
cond-master J. P. Grant, to Nerbudda. Clerk sasistaut J.
M. Carmichael, to liodne:-. Midshipmen J. J. H. Greeble,
to Excellent, and G. Worsfold, to Blenheim. Naval cadets
M. Dougall, to Blenheim, and F. Stirling, to Bighfiyer.
PORTSMOUTH, MAY 20.—1 t is understood that
the Queen will be present at the launch at this Dockyard of
the Princess Royal, 90, screw ships, which is expected to
take place on the 21st of June, and that the christening of
the vessel will be performed by her Royal Highness the
Princess Royal.—The Sintoom, iron screw troop-ship,
arrived at Spithead this morning from Deal, where sho
landed the 97th Regimont front North Atncrica.—The Star,
8, Commander Warren, sailed last night for the Brazils.—
The Vulcan, iron screw troop-ship, Commander Van Donop,
is to be ready for sea by the 25th inst., for conveying de-
tecbments of regiments to Coroda.—The Odin, 12, steam
frigate, Captain F. Scott, guilt(' from Spithead o-night for
Plymouth.—The Encounter, 14, screw sloop, Commander
O'Callikehan, is to go out of dock to-morrow, having had a
raise keel fitted to her to improve her sailing qualities.—
The Victoria and Albert, rcyal yacht, is to go out of dock
on the •Ith of June.

(BY ELECTRIC TELROBArR3
(FROM OUR OWN CORRENPONDENT.)

PORTSMOUTH, threauaT.
The London, 90, Sans Pareil, 81, Highflyer, 21,
screw ships; amOdin, It, paddle, ;ailed at daybreak this
moi.timr from Spitbead fur the Mediterranean.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FRIDAT, MAY 20.
The ti AAAAA u took the chair at the weal hour.

Tim following bills wens read a third time —Allendale
Road Ballymena, liallymasey, Calamine. mut Portrosh
Junction Railway (No. 2); Lowatuwellorry, Coleraine. and
Belfast Junction Railway; Wawpaey Valle? Railway, Bills.

PUBLIC BUSINESS.
SAVINGS BANKS.
Mr. IIINDLEY wished to know whether the govern-
ment would be able to bring in a bill this 411111a011 to give
some security to de rrisitors in Livins hanky,.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
should shortly bring in a bill for that perpowe. The right
hon. gentleman then moved that the house, at its rising,
should adjourn till Monday neat.

TUE SI'IRIT DUTIES.
Captain JONES said, seeing that the committee o• the
Spirit Duties Dill bad been filed for Monday next, he
wiahrd to a•k the right hon. gentleman to postpone it to a
later day. lie had received communications trom persons
is the trade to the effect that • postponement was most
material to their interests.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
parties who were affected by the prorisiun■ of the bill bad
had ample time since the bill wit printed to consider its
provisions, and they were, in posit of fact, in London at
that time for the purpose of communicating with the reve-
nue dep.irtnisnt on the subject. Ile did not think, there-
fore, that th. re was any chance of their being taken by
surprise. It was moat important, with reference to the
proposed remissions of tasvion, that there should be no
needless delay in taking the opinion of the house with re-
glad ;to ;the spirit duty. The course which he proposed
to u►e was this. If the Income Tea Bill were read a second
time that night, he shoal.' propose to go into committee on
Monday. Then would come the committee on the customs
resolutions, and after that he bored the house would pro-
ceed with the Spirit' Bill.
Mr. hI.t(iUIIRE said the ben. gentleman was mistaken
in supposing that all the parties interested were in London;
many of lbws would not be here till the middle of nest
week.

Mr. F. SCULLY said he did not hear from his own Con-
stituent/ on the suljeet until the preceding curling.

THE ANNEXATION OF I'EOU.

Mr. CODDKN put two questions to the right hon. gentle-
lam the member foe Helder :—First, Was the province of
Pegs amnesia to the British territory in India by the
Ooversior-General in Council, without previous instructions
from home; sad if se by what law has he power to extend
our tutees poriesaisies ? ffecondly, If the Governor-
General acted in compliant,. with orders from the home
go eirnmest, is there any despatch in existence defining the
boundaries of the aewly-scquired territory ?
Sir C. WOOD said : Sir, I hope my boo. friend will not
think 1 am speaking in a tune of complaint when I say that
I do not consider it a reasonable practice to introduce mat-
ters of the greatest possible importance on a simple notice of
• qeesti,n. (Hear, hear.) I do not complain. It is only
about two hours ago since I received notice from my hon.
friend of his intention to put to me a question which I am
perfectly ready to answer. If we are to have a discussion
oa the very important question relied by the hon. gentle•
ass, I do not see why it should not take place ; but I
think it should not take place, simply upon the putting of a
quistioo ; sad as I had not the slightest notion that the
bon. gentleman intended to raise a dismiss, I hope he
will nut think it disrespectful if I condme myself to answer-
ing his questions. Now, the first questios which he put to
ma was this :—Was the province of Pegs annexed to the
British territory in ludic by the Ottromeor-Cieneral in
Council, without previous instraetiem kern base ?
My answer is, certainly not. If the beammable
gentlemaa will refer to the wars already on
the table with regard to the baseliitim with Bar-
nub, at page 46 he will and time work : " The
Oovernoe-Oeneral proposes that tss waists of Peso,
extending somewhat above Prime, ba retained ant
perennially occupied as British lenitery an the termina-
tion of the war. Ile proposes that ea lba best mode of
indemnifying the government for the imam which it has
been put to to vindicatiag the rights at British subjects
who have been injured by the Busman at. In
page 63 is a despatch of the sewn esssillss Se the °over-
nor-Oeneral in Council; sod my bra. Mead has been long
'sough a member of an India moomighot W knew that a
despatch so (tuned does convey the sanitise sad authority,
not merely of the Board of Control, bat dam government
of this country. The approbation and andandAr of the Bri-
tish government is conveyed la dime weeds " are of opi-
nion that the permanent anamatica to the BrltYebdominions
of the Prosier), of Pegg, including Press, &sold be
adopted as a meamare of compensation sad ealleem for the
past, and of security. for the future." The Governor.
General states what is hie view, subject to the approval of
the home goverment ; end that approval was conveyed to
him on 23rd of December lest. My answer, therefore, to
the best question is, that undoubtedly the authority of the
government of this country was given to the Governor.
General for the annexation of Vega. The second question
was, " If the Ooeerner•General acted in compliance with
orders from the borne government, is there any despatch in
existence defining the boundaries of the newly-acquired

territory." T—iiime kr no despatch in 'Matinee actually
prescribing the bormikeke. The Province of Pepe is
• country Men, dl an from Burnish; it was con-
quered by the isineese, ■ad is inhabited by a
totally thiferest PM d people, who have uniformly
received our weep is the scot kind and cordial as
theit &livens etss batter conquerors and oppressors I
do not think the beeadariee are pointed out, but an order
bale bees gives by the Oovernor-Oenexal to lay down, if
a bind hal clear line of:demarcation between the
et %ma and the annexed proviso*.

Mr. U. GIBSON begged to ask the right ken. gentleman
whether he was suilleiently informed on the question to be
in a position to state whether or not the new province
mesa pay its own expenses. (Hear, hear.)
Str C. WOOD said so far as he was informed he had
=messes to believe that it would pay its own expenses
giving a most complete check to any further hoii-
ati—e—soa Hsi part of Burnish.
Hr. BRIGHT said his right hon. friend had administered
• lecture to his hoe. friend the member for the West
&iliac, though he intimated that he bad no wish to do so,
lee making say observations before putting his questions.
Now,lnsfortintately, there were very few opportunities of
maim any remarks In that house. (Hear, hear.) In the
other house when petitions were presented any question
might be diseased at length. Time was when that was the
practice of that house. He did not recommend the house
to return to it—(bear)—because it would be an interrup-
tion of business • bet still, when the government had with-
drawn a day hem what were called independent members'
days, they enshil ad Is take it unkindly when observation
were r.in pottier a question. Now, the right hoo. gen-
tlemen bad sired that the province of Pegs would pay
its own ovum Precisely the same statement had been
made by meet President of the Board of Control in all
railer doss tie the last fifty or seventy years, and there
was, he benewsk we single instance in which it had not
beenfilhisified by the result. If they might take the opinion
of preens esicersaat with Indian affairs, never was there
a ease, ben the days of Lord Clive to the days of Lord
Delhosaie, in which there was a smaller chance of a new
predate poen Lae expeases. Now, he would like to ask
gib debt lir neatilemen whether he was able to give the
hew any Yin masa with regard to the present, or the
probable expense of the war. In matters con-
nected with India, it was impossible until four
or five years after all the events were over to
ascertain what had been done, and be would therefore be
glad to hear also whether any deepateh had been sent to
India to authorise any further annexation of territory.
Sir C. WOOD said he was not prepared to say what
would be the precise expense of the Burmese war in the
present yeer ; but if his hon. friend would repeat the ques-
tion on Monday he would answer it. In the last year the
expense was paid out of the ordinary , and he had
every reason to believe that it would be so this year. With
regard to the second question, whether an order had been
sent out to annex, any further territory, his answer
was, undoubtedly not. His object had been that the an-
nexation should be confined within the narrowest visible
limits; and that no more territory sherd be taken than
was within the river Irrawaddy, whets the country was ex-
ceedingly fertile.
RICBELLION IN CHINA.
- . _ .

Lord JOCELYN said that accounts had appeared in the
public papers f the rapid spread of the rebellion in China,
ft being stated that the rebels had taken the city of Nankin,
and were advancing on the capital of China. It was stated
farther, that the emperor had applied to the representative
of the lintah government for std, bat whether by means of
an armed force, or in the way of negotiation, was not stated.
He wished to know if any despatches had been received by
the geverameat eelative to this matter which could be laid
cm the taM., and Haat, whether the noble lord the member
fee Immtmainnidlnform the hook if such requisition" had
been made, sad Woo, what coarse the government intended
to take la eemsegeense ?
Lord J. RUSSELL would state what had occurred. It
appeared that the rebels against the government of the
emperor of China had advanced considerably into the
govatry, and the last report was that Nankin bad fallen,
although there was as yet no certainty that that was the
ease. Certainly the town was menaced, sad the rebels were
still advancdag. Ia these eireammastes the Prefect of
Shanghai, by order. as he said, of the of Nankin,
had made applies/ice for assistance to Sir George Bonham,
at Hoeg Kong, and the latter was about to proceed to
Bhangh.• with a view of protecting British property
there. ConAdent hopes were entertained that the
means at his disposal were sufficient for that peeper,
sad the orders given by her Majesty's government were,
that ressana should be afforded to protect the persona and
properties of British subjects ; but that there should be no
Laterferenee is the civil war at present going on. (Hear,
hear.) He could not say at that moment whether govern-
ment had any papers to lay on the table.
KILMAINHAM HOSPITAL.
- -

RISING OF TILE MOUSE.
A motion was agreed to that the house, on its rising, do
adjourn to Monday next.
MAYNOOTH.—MINISTERS' MONEY.
Mr. MAti UIIt F. wished to know whether her Majesty's
government inrended to allow the Maynooth vote to repels
as it stood at rresent,er whether a supplemental vote would
be brow/hi in to supply the delciexey created by the di-
vision of the previous night. lid wished also to know whew
government intended to bring in a bill relative to minute,.'
money, a subject which caused the greatest anxiety in
Ireland.
Lord J. RUSSELL, in answer to the Ant question, said,
that government having regularly introduced the estimates
for the repairs of the Collrge of Maynooth, end the house
having refused that vote in committee of supply, it was not
their intention to bring in a supplemental vote. (Cheers.)
With respect to ministers' money a bill would certainly
be introduced, but he could not say the exact day.
EDUCATION. _ .

Mr. BRIGHT postponed toa fntaneveninghis question
on the subject of education.

LAW OF PARTNERSHIP.
Mr. RICARDO had a question to ask the right hon. the
President of the Board of Trade, one which had been often
asked, and to which the answer had always been, that the
anxious attention of the government was beicg devoted to
the subject. Ile hoped be should not get the same answer
this time, and wished to know whether the commission to
engiaire into the law of partnership had been yet nominated,
and whether this anxious attention of government had as
yet produced any useful result. (A laugh.)
Mr. CA !COWELL said that the report of the commission
had passed through the hands of the Lord Chancellor, and
would be forthwith presented.
INCOME TAX BILL.

On the order of the day fortlic;eCOOd reading of this
►ill,
Mr. DISRAELI said that, ennsideriag the state of pub-
lic business, it wag not his intention to offer any observa-
tions in the present stage of the bill ; but at the same time
he must reserve to himself the full right of slaking in cons
mittee any objection he might think necessary to the
clauses. Also, on the third reading, he must not be under-
stood as having conceded the principle by his forbearance
at the present stage. Ills wish was to combine the privi-
lege of free discussion with the concession of all possible
facilities to the progress of public business. (Cheers.)
In answer to a question from Mr CRAUTUUD. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated
that the mode of assessment in the royal burghs of Scotland
would be +imilar to that in the English corporations, and
proceeded to say that as it was important that the customs
resolutions should piss as soon as possible, and as, with re-
gard to a very large number of them, there was no opposi-
tion anticipated, be proposed to take that portion on the'
same meting as the incomo tax, no matter how late the
hour might be. lie should propose all the remissions about
' which there was no objection, reserving for a future occa-
sion others which were likely to create debate. He mad*
this proposal to save time.
Mr. DISRAELI said it would be a more convenient ar-
rangement to take the customs duties on Monday, and the
income tax on the Friday following.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the measures alluded to must take their regular course.
The income tax must be taken before the customs duties.
The bill was then read a second time.
SUPPLY.—REPORT.

Oa the report oltiec7ominiiieeoisuPply being brought
u Sir F. KELLY, in au almost inaudible tone, was under-
stood in second the request of the right boo. member for
Bucks with regard to the income tar, on the ground that
I several Irish members would not have returned to town by
Monday next.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
should be most anainus to meet the wishes of the right hon.
gentleman, but a sense of public duty obliged him to
adhere to the regular order of proceeding. The arrange-
ment which be had announced, was in strict confor-
mity with repeated previous announcements. The fate of
the income tax depended mainly on the stage next to come,
and they (the government) deemed it expedient to with-
hold all remissions of duty until the house hod given its
consent to the tax in committee. With respect to Monday,
the announcement had been made before the recess, and he
could not but think that Irish members who might feel an
interest in the bill, would be found, as they ought to be, in
their places when the time arrived.
M. MACARTNEY complained that a promise made by
the late Sir Robert Peel in 1846 with respect to Ireland, bad
not been adhered to t y his successors. It appeared that Sir
R. Peel had proposed that the capecse of prosecutions at
assizes and sessions should be transferred from the local rates
to the consolidated fund. This proposal had been carried
out in the case of England and Scotland, while the old
practice remained in force in Ireland, entailing on that
country a very considerable expense.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
know whether the hon. member urged • promise unful-
filled, or present expediency, with regard to this matter.
In any case, it was a matter worthy the consideration of
government.
Colonel DUNNE urged this subject on government as a
proper matter for inquiry.
Sir I. YOUNG reminded the hon. member for Antrim
that at the period alluded to by him, Ireland received a great
boon from which England was excluded. Ho thought the
whole question of local taxation in Ireland was a subject
well worthy the consideration of Irish members.
The report was then brought up and agreed to.
THE DERBY DAY
Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice that on Monday next he
should move the adjournment of the house over Tuesday,
' the latter being the Queen's birth-day, and also, seeing that
there was only one order of the day for the following day
(Wednesday), he should move a further adjournment until
Thursday next. (Loud cheers.)
SUPPLY.
The house then went into committee of supply.
The follswing votes were agreed to after some discussion :
4,049!. 13s. 4.1. charge for Bermuda.
7,6171. ecclesiastical establishments in BritisW North
America.

12,151 L for the Indian department of Canada.
10,4281., for salaries of governors, Beat.-governors, and
others, of the West Indian colonies and Prince Edward's
Island.
30,2621. for salaries, allowances, and contingencies of the
stipendiary justices in the West India colonies and the
Mauritius.

On the Tote of 16,8441. for the civil establishment of the
western coma of Africa
Mr. WILLIAMS said a few words, which did not roach
the gallery, complaining of some one of the items in the
account.

Mr. LUCAS expecled the bon. gentleman (Mr. Wil-
llama) was about, when be brea, to complain of the item
4001., in this vote, for tin ram of the chaplain at Gambia,
for seeing bow Mee* that hi.. gentleman and others on
the same side, had embed the principle of religious en-
dowmeat by the Stab ha the case of Maynooth, he thought
in consistency they meet appose that principle when applied
to the colonies.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS reminded the hon. gentleman that
religions instruction must be provided, and what ha con-
tended for was that it should be in accordance with the
religion of the majority of the people.
Mr. LUCAS did not understand that these chaplains
ware for the purpose of affording religions instructs°. to
the inhabitants of the settlement at ell, but merely for the
benebt of the civil and military servant, there. If hon.
gentlemen opposite were really so strongly opposed to re-
ligious endowment,and is favour of the voluntary principle,
they ought in consistency to oppose eadowment.
Mr. ANDERSON observed that there was no other mode
by which they could provide religious instruction for those
establishments, except by the appointment of chaplains.
Mr. LUCAS said there was • Roman catholic Ambassa-
dor at Athens—Mr. Wise—end he believed there waa a
chaplain to that embasey—(no)—was he—
Lord PALMERSTON (interrupting) There are no
chaplains appointed except at imbibes—Greece is a nib
aloe, not an enibee.
Mr. A. PELLATT wee perfectly prepared to prove his
eonaistency in oppseins the principle of state endowment,
by moving that thieve* he reduced by the amount of the
chaplain's salary, ate, 4111. (Hear, hear.)
After some further amnion,
Mr. A. PRLLATT said he would withdraw his amend-
ment, on the assurance that in one or two years the grant
would be withdrawn.
Mr. PEEL could not give such an ourotioot, am be had
said the revenue of the Gambia was isootaito cited it we
probable the grant would be transferred to lbs heal 11.-
Wastes.

The rote was then agreed to.
Votes of 10,91.51., for charges connected with the Island
of St. Helena, and 5,0001. for Western Australia, were
agreed tn.
On the sect vote, 5,0911., for New Zealand,
Mr. V. SMITH inquired whether any despatch had been
received from New Zealand giviog an account of the man-
ner in which the act passed last section bad been received.
Mr. PEEL had not so much as heard of the arrival of
the act of last mania. at New Zealand.
In answer to Mr. B/4011T,
Mr. I'EEL said tits grant to New Zealand would Naas
after this year. (Hear, hear.)
The vote was agreed to.
Oa the vote of Wit. for Heligoland,
Mr. MIALL moved that it be reduced by 1001., the
charge fur two clergymen.
Mr. PEEL said the population was so poor that they
were unable to make any provision for public worship.
Mr. BRIGHT—Is there any hope that the grant will
came ?

Mr. PEEL—There is no hope of any revenue from the
wands.

Oritite nest, 4,7301. for the Falkland Islands,
In answer to Colonel DUNIVR,
Mr. PEEL said the population was small in reference to
the gnat, but it wri increasing.
Mr. LUCAS referred to the grant of 4001. for a chap-
lain, and taunted Sir J. Shelley and gentlenien opposite
with incoosisteng in not (pressing their objections to the
grants for ehaplaincies to divisions, although they divided
on any endowment to Roman cakholies.
Sir J. SHELLEY said the hon. member for Meath was
so quick that neither honor one of his friends had an oppor-
tunity of objecting, as they were about to do. With regard
to the last vote, it was said that the population was too poor
to provide religious instruction of any kind; and perhaps
that was the case in this instance. He would, h
move that the vote be reduced by 4001., the grant to the.
chaplain.
Sir J. WALMSLEY inquired what the population of
the Falkland Islands was, and if there were any troops
there.
Mr. PEEL said there were no troops
_there. The resident
population was not large, bat the islands were of great la-

Mr. I. BUTT said th;tl;l;rklajertyrsiis;Wer to the ad-
dress of that bessib promised inquiry into the management
of K Hospital. He wished to know what was to
be the mop 4111 that Inquiry, and whether the result would
• asammuelaslell Mthat holm. fla wished to know also
what larliusllos MI boon given in pursuance of that reply,
and whether sevorment intends d to carry out the wish
dalitwratsly ermined by a large majarity of that house ?
H Mr. S. ERBERT said he had plated himself in tom-
munitatios with Sir E. Blarney, and had forwarded to
that °Meer a list of queries with referee°, to the state of
the ho•pital. He had also made 'equities as to the restric-
tions under which petitioners were admitted into Christ',
eatedfl:Satt, =
0 apply the same restrictions also
that no cat should gain admission
bo veers out soldier, asd that those abases
wkiali bad prevailed in former times.
• • .
rt, r•B
• • t :s.
SSA /ItiNa

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING. MAY 21. 1853.

pottanee not only as a depot in ears of war, but in time of
peace their grogrephical position at the eztremityof South
Africa placed them in the direct line of vessels gang to the
Pacific, the number of which had greatly incremed eines
the discovery of gold in California. The prosperity of the
islands depended on the shipping which eame nit° their
harbours to refit and provision. The harbours were very
' semi:odious, and the shipping were resorting to them in
preference to the porta on the coast of South America. To
show the increasing importance of these islands he would
state that the amount of tonnage in their harbours in 1849
was 9,200; in 18.50, 13,672; in 1851, 17,538; and in 1852
it was 22,024. He was not aware of the number of the
resident population.
After some further discumion,
Mr. ATHERTON urged that the charges were excessive
in relation to the population.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that many of the offices were
connected with the rights of the vessels that came to the
islands. If any reduction could be made, it should be done
' in future years.
Mr. BRIGHT suggested that the magistrate should be
got rid of, and his duties performed by the governor ; and
as it was now proposed to send medical asissionarkm abroad,
why not roll the surgeon and the chaplain into one. He
objected to the scale on which the offices in colonies of this
kind were established. _

Et/fitments were larger than those given i.o the consoler
establishments.

Mr. W. WILLIAMS observed that all the istomvehiences
sleseribed by the noblo lord applied to the corn's( at Colston,
who had 1,3001. a year, to the consul at Amoy. who had
SOW., and at Shanghae, who had 1,200/. a year. Canton
was an infinittly more important station than Bong-. Kong.
There was a very long list of consuls who ought to be struck
off. There was one at Frankfort, an inland town, where
they bad a minister and two or three attachés, another at
Paris, and another at Madrid, at each of which places they
had ambassadors.

Mr. A. PELLATT remarked that as the climate was un-
healthy, and they had a Chinese secretary, they might
employ more Chinn..
Sir G. PECHELL mentioned the use of a person who
Sad been consul at Barcelona who was displaced by the late
government without any pension.
Lord J. RUSSELL said ho had inquired, when he was
at the Foreign-office, whether he could give any pension to
to the gentleman in question, but he found be had no
power.
Sir G. PECHELL said a number of slaves had lately
been landed between Havannals and the Cabanas, and it
was said that the vessels were not rigged as slave vessels
usually were. He understood that our consul in Cuba had
been instrumental in bringing this matter to light, and that
some sort of compromise had taken place by which about
200 or 300 of the slaves had been given up in order that
the captain-general might be able to excuse himself to the
crown of Spain.
Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to say that several
landings had taken elder, but the attention of government
had been directed ta it, and our email' at II avancah had
been exceedingly active. Every means had been taken,
both by representations at 31adrid, and having an additional
force at Cuba, to check the importations.
Mr. BRIGHT said there was 500/. under the head of
Borneo to the Rajah of Sarawak. as commissioner and
consul-general. Ile presumed this alluded to Sir James
Brooke, who lived at Sarawak. The capital of Borneo was
at least 300 miles from the place of his residence, and the
communication between the two places was exceedingly
difficult. There was very little, or he should rather say no,
trade to make it necessary to have a consul at Borneo, and
he regarded this vote as simply • pension to Sir James
Brooke
. _ _ . _

Mr. PEEL said he would take care that the expenditure
was investigated, in order to se* it any reduction could be
made.

After some further conversation, the committee divided.
For the amendment 33
Against
The estimate, as it stood, was accordingly voted.
Tho nest vote was of 9,2001. for the charge of Hong-
KonMr.g.
W. WILLIAMS was glad to see that then wrs a
decrease of 2,8001. is this estimate as compared web last
I year. But there was still much to amend in regard to the
excessive salaries which were given to the officials in the
island. For instance, the governor got 3,0001., as governor ;
and as chief superintendent of trade he received atother
3,0001. a year. He (Mr. Williams) would move that this
vote be reduced to 4,4001.
Mr. PEEL thought as this estimate was undergoing a
gradual proem of diminution no opposition ought now to be
offered. The vote had,been yearly reduced since ISO
Mr. BRIOIIT thought that the expense in past yeas was
attributable to buildioe which were now completed, and
that, therefore, no diminution had taken place in salaries,
which were absurdly high.
Mr. MAOUIRE saw in this vote an item of 7001. for •
chaplain. He wished to know what provision was made
for the spirited necessities of Roman eatholies, soldiers or
civilians, in Hong Kong ?
No answer being given,
Captain SCOBELL was addressiag the committee, when
Mr. MAGUIRE interrupted, and insisted on his question
being answered. (Loud cries of " Order, order.")
Mr. PEEL had not exactly understood the question.
(Order, order.)
The CHAIRMAN said that both Mr. Moguls" and Mr.
Peel were out of order.

Mr. AGLIONBY believed the only question before the
committee was, whether the salary of the chief superin-
tendent of Hong KonE should be reduced from 3.0001. to
1,6001. a year. After the statement of the noble lord, he
could not vote for the amendment, but he thought that the
way in which the vote was inserted in the estimates was
calculated to mislead, and that no one would have supposed
that the same individual had 3,0001. a year, as Governor of
Hong-Kong.
Mr. 0. A. HAMILTON remarked that there was a simi-
lar discussion last year, and the vote appeared in tho esti-
mates in the sane manner then.

Mr. BRIGHT said the question of the 6001. for Borneo
was a point that the noble lord ought to clear up.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that was a subject which the
government considered some time ago, and he thought it
had been announced in the house that there was to be an
inquiry. It was stated that the Governor-General of India
would appoint • commission for that purpose, but there
was some difficulty in point of form ; but it was intended
that there should be an inquiry, in order to see in what
manner the interests of British commerce could best
be promoted in that quarter. Until they got the result
of that inquiry, he did not think they should make any
alteration. He must say that some time ago there was
a general impression that Sir James Brooke bad rendered
great service by his enterprising conduct. He was not
convinced that Sir James Brooke had lost his title to that
1 reputation and he was not prepared to say that there ought
to be anything done without further inquiry.
Mr. BRIGHT said he was not speaking with reference
to Sir James Brooke. He should say the same thing if it
were another person. They paid 3001. to a consul-general
who lived 300 miles off, and for a place where there was no
trade. If Sir James Brooke had performed services for
which they wanted to reward him, it was a different
thing.
Captain SCOBELL wished to recal the attention of the
committee to the question upon which they were about to
divide. It was quite evident that they must either cut
down the salary of this governor, or increase the salaries of
all other governors. Otherwise, they would be doing great
injustice to the latter. As for the unhealthiness of the cli-
mate, the service was a voluntary one, and he did not sup-
pose the extra salary was to pay for physic. (A laugh.)
The committee then divided upon the amendment:
Ayes 46
Noes 7O-24
The amendment was therefore lost, and the vote was
agreed to.
The next vote was 18,500/ for the extraordinary expenses
of her Mojesty's missions abroad.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS called attention to • charge of 263/.
for postage and journeys on the public service by the mi-
nister at Wurtemberg. Now, what public services, worth
the money, could a minister render at a petty German
court like Wurtemberg. We had at that court • minister
and two or three attachils ; but it did not condescend to
accredit an agent to us. As we had ministers in Austria,
Flossie, and at Frankfort, which was situated in the
centre of all these German states, it was a mere waste of
the public money to maintain diplomatic establishments at
Hanover, Wurtemberg, or Saxony.
Viscount PALMERSTON said an account had been ren-
dered, and of course no charges of this description were
ineurred,:except they were actually due for the transmission
of despatches between the two courts. The minister at
Wurtemberg was also accredited to the Court of Baden,
and as it was neceuary from time to time that ho should go
to the latter place, he (Lord Palmerston) supposed the se-
cond charge to which the hon. gentleman had referred.
was for journeys thither in furtherance of his duties.
With respect to the general question of having diplomatic
relations with the smaller courts of Germany, he (the noble
viscount) knew that many persons, like his hon. friend,
underrated their value and importance ; but, after having
had some years' experience in this matter, he could under-
take to assure the h..uso that it was a matter of great value
and importance that we should have those means of diplo-
matic intercourse with the venous members of the German
Confederation, which the appointment of ministers to those
courts afforded us. Those means would net be supplied by
the minister at Frankfort, because he was accredited to the
Diet, and the representatives of several courts at
the Diet had no authority whatever to deal with mat-
ters of the general policy of their respective courts. The
states of Bavaria, Wurtemberg, Saxony, and Hanover had
acted an important part in the affairs of Harare as members
of the German Confederation, and their policy was by no
means a matter of indifference to the interests of this coun-
try. More than all, it was of great importance that the
government of England should be made acquainted with
what was passing in foreign countries, and it had often hap-
pened that we had obtained very important information
from these smaller states as to natters which more directly
concerned the larger and more important governments of
Europe. It was true that the government of Wurtemburg
in 1648 or 1849 had from motives of economy withdrawn
its minister from this coantry ; bit that was no reason
why we should not continue to have • diplomatic
agent residieg at Wurtemberg, especially as other foreign
powers had not withdrawn theirs. When at the Foreign-
office, it bad been his strong and clear opinion that it would
have been a sacrifice of the public interests to have with-
drawn our diplomatic relations with this court. (Hear.)
The vote was speed to after some discussion ; and the
committee proceeded to the sixth head of the civil service
estimates, consisting of " superannuation and retired allow-
ances and gratuities for charitable and ether purposes."
The following items were agreed to without remark :
132,9801., for superannuation and retired allowances.
2,9671., for Tonlonese and Corsican emigrants, &o.
2,0001., National Vaccine Establishment.
3251., Refuge for the Destitute.
The next vote was--

Capt. SCOBELL proceeded, and repeated Mr.Willians's
criticism on the suasive salaries of the governor and ether
_ _ _

Mr. PEEL said it was to be borne in mind as a cirmen-
stance accounting for the disproportion of the salaries riven
to governors to those awarded to other officers, that govern-
ors were not allowed any retiring pensions.

Mr. WILLIAMS did not see that that was any reason
why them enormous salaries should be given. lie did not
know who was the governor of Hong Kong ; but why
should he get 6,0001. a year when the Consul at Canton (Dr.
Bowring) who was a very able man, and whose services
could not be regarded &Bless important, 'mired only lAOOI.
a year.
Mr. PEEL, at this point, answered Mr. Maguire. There
was no provision, that be was aware of, for providing a
chaplain ter catholic@ at Hong Kong.

, .
Mr. MAGUIRE thought it was very unjust that they
' should pay 70W. for • protestant chaplain, and give not`iing
for a catholic chaplain. He would move that the sum of
7001. be struck out, if some mole satisfactory answer were
not given.
Lord J. RUSSELL could not understand the questien.
Mr. MAGUIRE repeated it.
Lord J. RUSSELL then replied—No, there was no each
provision made.
Mr. WILLIAMS would include the hon. gentleman's
amendment in his, and the ameodmeat would then be,
that the estimate be reduced to 4,6001.„ including the 7001.
for a chaplain.
Colonel DUNNE thought that their "colonial chaplain"
was merely the chaplain to the governor's establishment,
The chaplains for the soldier, stationed at Hong Kong
would be found mentioned in the army estimates • and no
doubt there would be catholic as well as protestant chap-
lains. _ _

After some further conversation,
Mr. WILLIAMS said he would defer to the opinions of
the committee, and not press for a division, unless the hoes.
member opposite (Mr. Maguire) did.
Capt. SCOBELL would move, then, that the salary of
the governor be reduced to 1,6001.
Mr. PEEL said it was a question whether the governor
should hold more than one Ones ; but as governor, 3,0001.
was not too much for his salary.
Mr. BRIGHT said that at any rate they might expect
for 3,000/. the whole services of any individual.
Mr. MURROUGH thought that if a reduction vas to
be made, it should be when a new governor was being ap-
pointed ; for it was notorious that these high salaries had
been given, in the first instance, in consequence of the
climate of Hong Kong being so unhealthy, that the govern-
ment bad had the greatest dilliculty in finding men of re-
pute to go cut there. (Hear, hear.)
Capt. SCOBELL (after some further conversation) agreed
to postpone his amendment.
Mr. MAGUIRE would press his amendment—adding
951. (for the " contingencies") to the 7001. He disclaimed
any sectarian motive in this amendment.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND thought that such an amendment
was foolish. So long aa the church of England was con-
nected with the state they would have these estimates for
chaplains.
Mr. AOLIONBY did not see how they could vote for this
amendment after having agreed to a chaplaincy in the pre•
ceding estimate.
Mr. MAGUIRE was perfectly consistent. He had voted
for the last amendment; and he hoped as 36 gentlemen
bad voted for the last, a larger number would vote ler this,
because nearly double the sum was involved. (Laughter.)
The committee then divided :

32
Agsinst It 76-44

The vas eras then agreed to.
The nest vote was 2,3001. for defraying the charge of
Labelle,.

Mr. BRIGHT said the Lientenaot-governor bad SOW.
a year, and the police magistrate 6001. There was no more
population than might be contained within those walls,
and he did not see why the two offices s►ould not be com-
bined.

I. vote was thee agreed to.
The next vote, 17,398/. for the colonial land and
emigration board was agreed to without remark.
Oa the vote for 20,0001. for the support of captured
MVPS,
Mr. BRIGHT observed that the sum wee exactly
20,0001., and it was the samelast year. Was it an estimate
or was it actual expenditure.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
that the sum was taken on the average expenditure. If
the expense did not amount to the sum, the balance was
carried forward.
The vote was agreed to.
The next vote, 11,2501. for commissions for suppression of
the slave trade, was agreed to without remark.
The next vote wu 148,8331. for sonsular establishments
abroad.

Captain SCOBELL moved that the salary of the Gene-
ral Superintendent of Trade be reduced from 3,0001. to
1,5001. As the same individual was Governor of Hong
Kong, at a salary of 3,0001. the effect of the amendment
if carried would be to reduce his salary to 4,5001. a year
altogether. The governor of Bermuda bed 1,5001. a year,
of West Australia 1,3001, and of New Zealand, which was
quite as important as Hong Kong, 2,5001. This function-
ary'. Galling himself governor of Hong Kong was a mere
fiction. Ac governor, he had a secretary with 1,8001. a year
independently of the colonial secretary, who had 1,6001. a
year more. As chief superintendent of trade he had a
meretary and registrar at 7001. a year, and he had got a first,
etemad, third, and fourth assistant, receiving together about
1,30 W. a year, and he had got a Chinese secretary at 1,0001-,
and an assistant Chinese secretary at 4001. a year. Dr.
Bowring, who was consul at Canton, bad 1,8001. a year and
no more (and he was certain that the governor had not '1
more to ch ), and war a more able man.
Lord PALMERSTON said his hon. and gallant friend
war quite mistaken in supposing that the duties of the
governor of Hong Kong, as superintendent of trade, were a
mere fiction. The duties were very considerable. When
the trade with China was thrown open to all persons in
this country, instead of being exclusively in the hands of
the East India Company, an arrangement was made by
which it was settled that there should be three superinten-
dents of trade; one at 6,000/., one at 4,000/. and
one at 2,000!. a-year. That was considered by the East
India Company as being proper for the management
of the trade with China. When, by an arrangement with
the government of China, we obtained possession of the
island of Hong-Kong, we made what was thought an econo-
mical arrangement at that time. We abolished two of the
superintendents, and gave to the one that war left only half
the salary that war given formerly to the first, and com-
bined the office with that of the governor of Hong-Kong.
It was not fair to compare the duties of the governor
of Hong-Kong with those of the governor of p small
colony, because hie duties were not confined to admi-
nistering the government of Hong-Kong, but he was in
communication with all the consuls in China, and was
charged with) the general conduct of all matters connected
with the intercourse with China. He war, in point of fact,
plenipotentiary in China, and whenever communications
might take piano with the government of China the busi-
ness would be conducted by the Governor of Hong Kong in
bis capacity ofgevernor or superintendent of trade. And
when they considered the extent of his duties and the un-
healthiness of the climate of China and the dearness
of everything there, ho did not think the emolu-
ments too much. The effect of the climate on
British constitutions was exceedingly injurious. During
the period that he had the honour of conducting the foreign
affairs of the country, he had to lament the loss of several
promising and deserving officers, who fell victims to the
climate of China. The climate of Ilong-Kong was better
now ; but he was speaking not only of Hong-Kong, but of
Canton, Amoy, and Shanghae. With regard to Oil range
of salariis of the inferior officer., he made it his duty to
inquire, and he found that the salaries in commercial esta-

4,2801., for Polish refugees and distressed Spaniard'.
Mr. REPTON objected to the sum of 3,0001., which
formed part of 'his vote, for the relief of Polish refugees.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there
was a diminution in this vote, and there would be a still
further one.

Mr. REPTON paid he should move that it be reduced
from 3,0001. to 2,0001.
Viscount PALMERSTON said he believed this arrange-
ment bad been made, that no addition should be made to
the number receiving this relief—that no new refuge*
should be added. These persons came to this cottntry in
great distress ; many of them were very deserving. (Hear,
hear.) They were dependent for relief on the very small
amount doled out to them from this fund. The govern-
ment of which he was formerly a member had made this
arrangement, that those who were on the list should con-
tinue to receive the allowance as long as they remained
here, but that no new name should be put upon the
lists.

Lord D. STUART said the grant had been originally
made, on his motion, in 1836. It was for men whe had
fought in the cause of their country, in support of • state of
things which this country had sought to uphold, and who,
by the vicissitudes of fortune, had been driven here for •
shelter. Afterwards the grant was raised from 19,000/. to
15,000/. It was subsequently diminished by the deaths of
the parties rtetiving the allowance. In 1817, objection was
taken to the grant by the hon. member for Middlesex, now
Secretary to the Admiralty. (Hear, hear.) A debate of
some length ensued, and it was said by one hon. member
that there was nothing to prevent the refugees going hack
to their own country. This was not so. The Doles might
go back to the Prussian or Austrian territory, but not to
the Russian territory and the whole of the recipients of
the grant belonged to the Russian territory of Poland.
The government at that time agreed to an inquiry
into the grant, and two gentlemen were appointed
who instituted a very searching inquiry. They recom-
mended the removal from the list of all who were not inca-
pacitated from supporting themselves; and the result was a
great reduction in the amount of the grant. It was now
only 3,0001.—n0t a very large amount. No new pensioner
had been added since 1848 ; and the deaths tended conti-
nually to diminish the grant. It would be a very cruel
thing for the house now to withdraw it altogether, and he
hoped the bon. gentleman would not press his objection.
There had never been any division on this grant. (Hear.)
The vote was agreed to.
Oa the next vote, 4,469/. for miscellaneous charges for-
merly on the civil list,
Sir J. SHELLEY asked for some explanation of the
items. One was • sum of 5001., an annuity granted by
King Charles 11. to the ancestor of the late Sir Thomas
Clarges, in fee, and charged upon the coal duties. As •
committee was now sitting upstairs on the coal duties, he
hoped this annuity would be inquired into.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, who spoke
almost from behind the Speaker's chair, was understood to
say that there was a description of the charges printed in
the estimates.

Mr. MALL referred to the items of 891. paid to the
Bishop of Sodor and Mari, to be distributed among the in-
cumbents and schoolmasters of the Isle of Man, and 92/. to
the Bishop of Chester, for stipends of two preachers in Lan•
cushier. He wished to ask whether these charges were to
continue beyoLd the lifetime of the present recipients.
There was another item to which he objected-S;W. to the
college of Sc. David's, Lampeter. 11e wished to know
whether they were to go on paying these charges from
generation to generation, or whether there was any hope of
their being wiped out?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said a few
words in explanation.
Mr. IIINDLEY said there was an item in this vote for
poor French refugee clergy. Now was it not possible to
print the names of the recipients of this charity, so that the
house might know whom they were dealing with. (Hear,
hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there
would be no objection to de that.
Mr. BRIGHT said that was precisely the answer the
esmnoittee had a right to expect, for the items appeared to
be very much the same every year. These poor refugee
clergy were no doubt very aged, but they Iliad been aged
for a great number of years, and he was quite certain if the
house did not look sharp into the matter they would live on
for fifty years to come. (A. laugh.) The government
ought trom year to year to look over all these small items,
and gradually get rider those which a wont of wisdom in
our forefathers had created. (Hear, hear.)
Mr HUTCHINSON contended that ;the vote for St. Da
vid's College, Lampeter, stood upon very much the same
footing as the one which was rejected on the previous
night, and if the grant to Msynooth ought to be rejected,
he could not see how this one could be supported upon
principle. (Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER conceived
that there was a wide difference between the two cases.

Maynooth bas bet a settled by all the states of the realm; it
is • policy which this house has refused to or, rtbrcer or to
impair in the course of the present sea-ion. (Ilen, hear.)
At the same time, it is impossible not to ace that the tendency
of such votes as were given last night is not simply
to mires', disapproval of Roman catholic doctrine,
but a tendency to shake the general principle that religions
endowments ought to be maintained. (Hear, hear.) Now
as I believe with try right hon. friend the Secretary tor
Ireland that religious endowments are of very great use to
a nation, as I should be quite willing to vote, if there were
an occasion for it, for grants to Roman catlif•lies, not only
with respect to Maynooth, but with respect to other sub-
jests—if there were any occasion for it—l certainly
do hope the house will not came to the saute cm-
elusion as the hon. gentleman (Mr. Spool er) opposite.
With respect to the vote under discussion, I look upon it as
a vote in favour of law and order, and shall therefore car.
dially support it, trusting that the house will nut repeat its
conduct of last evening towards the Roman catholic, by
similar acts of hostility to-night to the presbyterians.
Mr. SPOONER would not alter his course, whatever
might be the consequences. lle approved of the principle
of a state church, but even probable consequences to that
church should not deter him from what he considered to he
a proper course. Nothing should induce him to give his
sanction to a religion which he b.lieved to be contrary to
the word of Gad and completely subversive of good govern-
ment in this country. (Rear, bear.) Ile should ulways
vote against Maynooth, and un the present occasion would
vote with the noble lord.
Mr. CAIRNS objected to the broad question of endow-
ments being started on such a small and narrow basis. The
grant now under discussion was as old as James 1., bad
been annually conceded by the Irish parliament, and was
adopted on the union of the two countries. lie had risen
merely for the purpose of denying the assumption of the
hon. member for Manchester, that the Remain Donum or
any other grant could have the effect of "muzzling" the
presbyterians of the north of Ireland.
Mr. FOX supported the vote, but declined far the pr".
byterians to accept it as a reward fur loyalty. Vctc ior ne
vote, their loyalty would still be the same.
Mr. HASTIE (Paisley) said that the vote was a very
small sum compared to the thousands spent is the southern
counties of Ireland to keep the people in order. He theaht
certainly vote in favour of it.
Mr. MAGUIRE defended the south of Ireland, and said
that the committee on crime and outrage had given the bad
eminence to the northern provinces. Ile did not mean,
however, to taunt the presbyterians on that account. Hay-
ling complained of the mischief caused by Lord J. Russell's
" Durham letter," the hon. member coaeiuded by stating
his intention to vote for the grant.

Mr. V. SMITH hoped the right hon. gentleman would
re-consider his determination to print the names of the
recipients of the Poor Clergy Charity. It was only 1,000/.
a year, while it was the duty of the Treasury to examine
into all the claims, and to see that no fraud was committed
upon the public exchequer. Of what use then would this
printing of names be ? None whatever. It would only
diminish the value of the charity by holding up these un-
fortunate clergymen to the derision of the house, and he
must certainly protest against the step that was about to be
taken. Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied
that printing their names would be holding up the parties
to derision, but perhaps as such a proceeding might detract
from the charitable character of the vote, it would be as
well not to take it. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT said no consideration of delicacy for the
persons who were the recipients of the charity ought to
aster them from doing their duty to the public, and he
should be sorry if this suggestion was not carried out. Ile
was quite sure that so far from the parties being derided
they would become objects of veneration from their extreme
age. (A laugh.)
The vote was then agreed to.
Upon the question that 1,4601. be voted to defray the ex-
pense of the Foundlirg Hospital of Dublin,
Mr. VANCE complained that the government had made
an unfair deduction of 10 per cent. from these votes for the
maintenance of the Dublin hospitals, and inasmuch as his
hon. colleague had given notice of his intention to move
for a committee to inquire into the subject, he hoped the
committee would suspend this vote until that motion was
disposed of.
Mr. WILLIAMS thought the boo. gentleman and his
friends would do well to rest contented with the vote CS it
stood. There were eight votes he found to these institu-
tions in Dublin, not one of which bad any claim to the
public money. Similar institutions iu London were en-
tirely supported by voluntary contributions, and if they
were to have any inquiry at all it should not be with the
view of increasing the votes, but getting rid of them alto-
gether. (Hear.)
After a few words from Col. DONNE, the Tote was
agreed to.
The following votes were also agreed to :
• 10,2901. to defray the expenses of the House of Industry
in Dublin.

Mr. M. O'CONNELL should vote against the gri.nt. He
had never voted for the Maynooth grant, except occe, and
that was on the motion of the hon. member for North War-
wickshire. He believed that his own church could find
funds now, as she had found them under the penal laws,
and that state connexion was ruin to a chin. ch, and damage
to a state. (Hear, hear.) Ho was for " cutting the
painter," and thought that every man should pay Lis priest
as he paid his doctor. when he wanted him—(laughter)—
and your religion would be better looked after. Ho ob-
jected to misting religion up with politics at all, but he
was aware that until you got rid of endowments altogether
that was impessible, but that once effected, the business of
the country would be better looked after by parliament.
Mr. NE W DEOATE who spoke amid loud and repeated
cries of " Divide ! " was understood to Boy that he could
perceive no change in the feelings of members of the house
as to the necessity of religious endowments, either on the
one side or the other. The view of the bon member for the
West Riding es to political justice, was to degrade those
institutions which conduced to peace, order, and the well-
being of the country. Ho (Mr. Newdegate) had opposed
the Maynooth grant because ee believed it did not conduce
to that result, but feeling strongly that the Presbyterian
grant did, ►e should support it

800/. to defray the expense of the Female Orphan Home
in Dublin.

1,350 f. to defray the expense of the Westmoreland Lock
limpital in Dublin.

Mr. M./tIAIION wished to call attention to the fact that
the committee had not divided on the pr,vi..us reli;ious
grants passed during the evening relating to the colonies,
and by dividing upon this they were carrying out the illus-
tration of their principle towards Ireland alone.
The committee divided—

Ayes
Noes
The vote was then passed, and the house resumed.
HACKNEY CARRIAGES BILL.

660/. far the Dublin Lying-in Hospital.
9451. for Stephen's Hospital.
2,2801. for the Fever Hospital, Cork-street.
3001. for the Hospital for Incurables.
On the vote for 38,4911. 11s. 2d. for the non-conforming
and other dissenting ministers in Ireland,
-Sir J. SHELLEY said that, having already expressed
his opinion on the subject of these grants, he would content
himself on the present occasion by simply moving that this
vote be expunged.
Mr. BRIGH r said that having been in the north of Ire-
land some time since he had an opportunity of making in-
quiries as to the working of these grants, he found that it
WAS in many. respects unsatisfactory. He thought it of
the greatest importance that complete religious justice
should be established between sects in Ireland. (Gear,
hear.) But if the government were not prepared to abolish
this grant now, he hoped they would say that it would not .
be made larger in future, because if the 38,0001. became
(0,0001. or more, there would be greater difficulty in deal-
ing with the question at a future time. (Hear, hear.)
This would give considerable satisfaction, because it would
show that the olject of the government was to establish re-
ligious
equality in Ireland. (Hear, hear.)
Lord C. HAMILTON, looking at the question in a merely I
secular and economical point of view, claimed the vote
of the hon. member on this occasion because more was
saved in soldiers and police than the amount of the grant
under consideration. (Hear, bear.)
Sir W. CLAY regretted to find himself under the neees-
Pity of supporting the amendment, in consequence of the
Maynooth vote of last night. (Hear, hear.)
Sir .1. YOUNG thought that the hon. gentleman laid too
much stress en the vote of last night. (Hear, hear.) Ile
regretted the decision to which the committee had come,
but he regarded it as a warning that ought to be avoided
instead of an example to be followed. (Hear, hear.) He
believed that it was only a small minority of the country
which desired to see public support withdrawn from all
ecclesiastical establishments whatever. (Hear, bear.) He
hoped the committee on this occasion would not follow the
example of last night.
Mr. COBDEN maintained that they could not go
on legislating in one spirit for a million of the
people of Ireland and in an opposite spirit for four
or five millions. (Hear, hear, hear.) He thought it
impossible that any one could have sat in that house and
,considered the tendency of recent debates on religious
questions, without seeing that they were approaching, or
at least making progress, towards a state of things
in which, not merely dissenters or Roman catho-
lies, but all men would be obliged to bring
their minds to the consideration of this question—
what policy should they pursue in order to do equal justice
to all religions ? (Hear, hear.) Now, he must confess for
himself that, although he generally acted with gentlemen
who were either themselves voluntaries or represented
voluntary constituencies, he must confess that he had never
—probably it was owing to the training which he re-
ceived—bad any very strong feeling against church endow-
ments : he would be a hypocrite if he said the contrary.
(Haar, hear.) But he had a very strong conviction that
they must do justice in that house to all, parts of the com-
munity. (Hear, hear.) Now, there were two ways of
doing justice to the people of Ireland—two ways, he meant,
of doing political justice. Though they might object to
legislate on religious matters, if they were in favour of en-
dowments at all, he thought they must make up their minds
to endow all. (Cheers.) That had been very much the
case. Little crumbs from the table of the great establish-
meat had been allowed to fall to the lot of the presby-
terians, the Roman catholic'', and others. But now it
seemed that they were to maintain the privileges of the
established church, and that Roman catholies were not to
be allowed to participate in endowments. (Hear.) He would
on that occasion vote with his hen. friend against this grant
for the presbyterians of Ireland ; and seeing that the house
would not allow any grant to the Roman catholic. of that
country, he would join on every occasion in anything which
could tend to bring all to a perfect footing of equality in
such matters. (Loud cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—The boa. member for North War-
wickshire (Mr. Spooner) stated last night, with regard to
one of the divisioast that he did not very well know what
he was voting for. lam afraid that that description would
apply not only to the first division which was taken, but
also to the second, in which his deliberate purpose was to
refuse a sum for the repairs of Maynooth College. (Hear.)
I am very mach afraid that the hon. member was not aware
of the purport and tendency of the vote which he gave; he
may, perhaps, after hearing the speech of the hon. member
for the Tower Hamlets, and that of the hon. member who
has just spoken—he may now, I say, begin to have some
notion of the tendency of his vote. (Ministerial cheers.) 1
must say that I think those hon. gentlemen have exhibited
the effect of that vote. The meaning of what was done
mast be read by the light, not only of the debate of last night
but by a vote which was given • considerable time ago on
the question of Maynooth itself, when the hon. gentleman
proposed altogether to abolish the Maynooth grant by re-
pealing the act of parliament which established it. It will
be remembered that the house refused to concur with the
bon. gentleman, and maintained the act by which Maynooth
wsi established. The effect of the hon. gentleman's vote of
last night is, I think, very grave. It is this, that the col-
lege remaining the same, the endowment given by act of
parliament remaining the same, the hon. gentleman says
that the theological errors of the managers are so great,
the doctrines they teach are so dangerous, that they shall
not be allowed to have their windows repaired—(laughter)
—and if the roof is out of repair the rain and snow shall be
allowed to come in upon their beds ; until they adopt better I
opinion., they shall not be allowed to live comfortably. It
was certainly a very odd vote for this house to
come to ; but be it observed it in no way im-
pairs tho act of parliament by which Maynooth
was endowed. It was perhaps, an error, but it
certainly could not have been foreseen that the question of
necessary repairs would be made an occasion of entering on
the whole question of religious endowments. (Hear,
, hear.) But, sir, the effect of the vote has been to induce
many persons who would not otherwise have ventured on
that course of policy, to say that if such is the injustice
with which one portion of the people of Ireland are to he
treated, it would be best to get rid of religious endow-1
ments altogether. (lieu, hear.) I must say that I think
that is a very precipitate conclusion, and it is one to which
I am not only not prepared to come, but which I shall do
my best to resist. (" Hear, hear. ") Although it
would be unwise to propose in the present year,
even if the forms of the house would allow it, any further
estimate for the repairs of Maynooth, yet it will be the
duty of the government to see in what way provision can be
made for that purpose. The general policy of maintaining

The house then went into committee on this bill.
On the Ist clause,

Lord D. ST CART asked his hon. friend who had charge
of this bill whether he would proceed with the bill at that
hour ? (" Yes," and "Go on.") lie (Lord D. Stuart) had
some amendments to propose, and on one of them he should
take the sense of the committee. (" Go on.") Well,
then, be would proceed to state some objections to the
first clause. The noble lord then stated his objection to the
power which was given to the Commissi iners of Police on
the licensing and inspection of hackney carriages, and that
without any power of appeal, and contended hat it was
never intended to give such judi'ial powers to the
Commissioners of Police ; but that their futictionS
were to be wholly ministerial. An appeal to Quarter
Sessions bad been objected to; and he would, therefore,
propose an eppealito a county court, as causing less delay.
This he would submit as en amendment to clause 2.
Mr. HINDLEY proposed verbal amendments on the
clause before the committee. Incidentally he said that in
Manchester a reduction of fares had not answered, the
cabs not having improved at all, although these had been
en increased demand. The circumstances which would
operate in London, however, were different; and be hoped
that by-end-bye we should have cabs such as ladies might
ride in with comfort and decency. But these results ought
not to be brought abuat forcibly. Let there be licenses for
first and second clam cabs; and let the fares be in the one
case Gd., and the other 9d. a mile. (Oh, ob.) M any rate,
let the 'sateen he a permissive system.
Mr. FITZROY objected that the amendments of the
hon. gentleman had not been printed, and could not now be
considered; and they were accordingly postponed.
Mr. TIIORNELY did not expect first-class cabs for
6d. a mile ; and he would be in favour of a competition
which woud give the public of different classes an option as
to the price of the cab they would ride in.
Mr. B CARTEIt spoke in favour of the same sugges-
tion. lie would like ninepenny cabs.
Colonel KNOX thanked the bon. gentleman (Mr. Fitz-
ray) for the bill. He (Colonel Knox) had gone deeply into
the question, and he was sure that the right oil:160e was
to have one tariff of fares; and he hoped that this principle
would be adhered to.

Clause I was then agreed to.
On clause 2,
Mr. FITZROY moved verbal amendments.
Mr. lIINDLEY moved an amendment omitting words
which required that cab proprietors should have notice of
objections taken by the police comusissionen to cabs, in
order that those cabs might be withdrawn, and that the
license might net be peremptorily suspended.
Mr. FITZROY thought that such a provision would be
necessary to prevent arbitrary treatment of cab proprietors.
After a few words from Mr. BRADY,
The amendment was negatived without a division.
On the question that clause 2 stand part of the bill,
Lord D. STUART moved the addition of a proviso, that
in case of the suspension of a license, there should be a
power of appeal from the Commissioner of Police to the
Judge of the County Court.
Mr. BRADY supported the amendment.
Mr. FITZROY thought the County Court Judge was not
a proper functionary. He should have no objection that in
every cue the commiuioner should report to the Secretary
of State the cause of suspension, and if the Secretary of
State thought the cause insufficient, he should restore the
license to the person to whom it was originally granted.
He moved an amendment to that effect.

Mr. AGLIONI3Y objected to both the motion and amend-
ment. It was quite as reasonable to give an appeal to the
Lord Chancellor as to the County Court Judge ; and to re-
port the cause of suspension to a Secretary of State was
still more absurd. It was imposing an unnecessary trouble
to report the cause of suspension, and it could not be ex-
pected that a Secretary of State could attend to such a
matter.

The committee than divided :
For the amendment 6
Against it
The amendment was therefore lost, and the clause was
then agreed to.
On clause 7,
Mr. WILKINSON objected to the proposed enactment,
by which a cabman mad be compelled to convey a farowix
miles.

Mr. FITZROY said he had originally proposed five
miles, the distance named in the present act, but he found
that that would not in all cues cover the distance between
railway termini and the opposite sido of the metropolis.
(Hrar, hear.)
The clause was then agreed to.
On clause 12, which applied to the superintendents of
the stands,
Lord D. STUART wished to know how many of these
men were intended to be appointed, because he was fearful
that the clause might be made the pretext for an increase of
the police force and of the police rate.
Mr. FITZROY said there were 150 stands. Where
practicable, the existing watermen would be made superin-
tendents, and policemen who had became unable to perform
the severer duties of the force might perhaps also be ap-
pointed. The men would of course be constables, but there
could be no reason to apprehend that they would render
an increase of the police rate necessary.
In answer to Sir J. V. SHELLEY,
Mr. FITZROY said he could not say whether the
authorities of the City would allow the act to be enforced
within their jurisdiction.
Lord A. PAGET asked if clause 12 would apply to rail-
, way termini ?
Mr. FITZROY said he did not think it desirable to
legislate incidentally on any point in dispute, and therefore
he adopted the precise words of the previous act.
In answer to further questions,
Mr. FITZROY said that communications had taken
place with the City authorities on the subject of preserving
their exclusive jurisdiction, and he under•tood some amend-
ments were to be proposed for that purpose ; but of course
be should not propose them, having no particular wish to
keep up the distinct jurisdictions. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WALPOLE and Mr. PHINN urged the importance
of settling the question of railway termini, by declaring
that a terminus was a " place of public resort."
Mr. JAS. MACGREGOR suggested that an additional
clause for that purpose might afterwards be introduced.
The clause was then agreed to, as were clauses 13 and 11.
On clause 15,
Sir J. V. SHELLEY suggested that some provision
should be made in this bill to prevent omnibus drivers from
pulling up in the middle of the street. It would be a great
convenience to" unprotected females" if these drivers were
compelled to stop close to the pavement on the off side.

I!