The Express.
London, England, 1853-02-18 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

ROUSE OF LORDS.—TtIntODAV, FEB. 17.
The Loan Citaxcatkos took his seat at i o'clock.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
P•111.1•1111PITult/ PAPSILS.—By the Earl of CAR
LISLE, from York, Shipley, Holinstorte, Cumberland,
Braintree, awl several pieces in Ireland and Scotland, en
favour of the free distribution of parliamentary papers.
CANADA CLIUOT Reaaavies.--Alim from the Scottish
Anti-State Church Society, in favour of the government
measure relative to the Canada Clergy Reserves.
TRANSPORTATION.
Lord hIONTEAGLE said it was rumoured that it was
the intention of the government to introduce some measure
for the total suppression of transportation to Australia.
lie thought, however, that it must be a mistake, es it
would neither be beneficial to, or desired by, the people of
Western Australsr. Perhaps the noble duke would favour
him with woo. reformation on the oubj.c.t.
The Duke ut NE W CASTLE felt obliged to his noble
friend for basing put 1... c question to him, as he was aware
that there had been considerable misapprehension abroad as
to what fell from has noble trieud the Secretary for Foreign
Affairs ia the Howie of Commons last week, is announcing
the measures about to he introduced by the goverement
Before be answered the question of his noble friend, it
would perhaps be couvenicat for him to state
this position in which this question stood before
the accerion of the present government to office. It would
be recolketed that at the commencement of the session in
the middle of November last, in a speech from the throne,
her Majesty recommended that parliament should take into
its early consideratiou, whether it would not be desirable,
by dotage. iu the law, so to affect the question of secondary
punishments as to citable them before long to dispense with
transportatien to Van Diemen's Land. Ile found that on
the lath of December his predecetior addressed to the go-
vernors of the Australian colonies a letter on the subject,
In which be stated that the government would be prepared
as speedily as possible to abandon transportation to Van
Dieutiu's Land. The right hon. baronet stated that it
was Inc.:rag to make certain changes in the law as to pri-
SOU eccommi.dation and other matters, which prevented him
from stating any deflate time at which he could promise
that transportation should cease. In succeeding the right
hon. gentieni..n in the office of Colonial Secretary it had oc-
curred to him and other members of the government, that
with this promise of the early cessation of transportation to
Van Dieunn's Lind, it was necessary to look to the ques-
tion with a sieve to decide at what particular period they
would be able to bring transportation to • close ; and hav-
ing entered into a communication with his noble friend the
Secretary for the Homo Department, they CRON to the
conclusion tilt it would be practicable, and being so, most
desirable that transportation to Van Diemen's Land should
cease at once. Therefore, he had the pleasure of assuring
his noble friend, that as regarded Van Diemen's Land, not
a single convict more would he sent there. (Hear, hear.)
A. regarded Vau Diemen's Land itself, it was a question
which had been decided in the colony, that it was time that
transportation there ,hould cease ; and looking at the feel-
ing in that colony and other colonies, so much interested
in the discoo.inusace of transportation to Van Diemen's
Land, he thought there could be but one opinion as to
the propriety Si the course which had been taken by the
government. (Hear, hear.) With reference to the ques-
tion of bowmen:at:on to Western Australia, his noble friend
the Home Secretary had been misunderstood, for he did not
say that transportation to all the Australian colonies was
to cease, but only as.to Van Diemen's Laud. His noble
fried (Lord Monteegle) had rightly stated that as regarded
Western Australia, so far from its being desirable that
transportation should cease, it would be an inconvenience
to the colony that it should at once be abandoned.
Lord CAMPBELL expressed his earnest desire that
transportation should nut altogether cease. lie thought it
the beet secondary punishment; and it not only afforded
the mast Wooly COILLICII of reforming the convict, but it was
the only means of ridding the community of drilnilliu
The sentence, he could say from experience, produstil doe
deepest sensation not only on the person upon whom it 111111
pronounced but upon all bystanden; and it had &Desertion.
a most salutary effect. He believed that no length of in.
prisounient that could he inflicted in this country wail
give the slightest chance of reforming the convict. Ho Mil
conversed with • great many eminent lawyers and
statesmen in France, and they were all of opinion that
their mode of secondary punishment was much inferior IS
ours. They envied us our colonies, because we could
transport our convicts to them. His noble and learned
friend near him knew that fact better than he did.
Lord BROUGHAM said that some little change was
taking place in the opinion of reflecting and well informed
persons in France on this subject ; and where it had been
thought that transportation, or deportation, was • butter
mode of puoishmsrt than the galleys, there was a dis-
position to reconsider the subject. The great hulk of
opinion, however, continued to be the same. If their lord-
ships would only look to the proceedings of the criminal
courts of any part of France, they would find that a con-
siderable portion of the criminals were persons who had
been condemned to the frositwoux forces, and had been
turned adrift un society again.
Lord ST. LEONARDS did not think that any secondary
punishment was so good as transportation, but the goes.
tioa was whether it could be maintained, as the colonists
objected to receive -ematiorts. There wen Bermuda,
Gibraltar, and other places still open where convicts might
be employed on public works. He hoped the government
would net carry into execution the abolition of the punish-
ment of trsusportation beyond the necessity of the case.
After a few words in explanation from the Duke of New-
CASTLE the subject dropped.
ALTERATION OF THE STANDING ORDERS.
Lord REDESDALE moved the following alteration in
standinc order No. 185 : In line 34 of the said order leave
out " prosy fur the use of each proprietor," and insert
"form of proxy, with proper instructions for the use of the
some; and the same form of proxy and the same Justine-
tilos, and none other, shall be sent to every such proprietor;
but no such form el proxy shall be stamped, nor shall the
funds of the company be seedier the stamping any proxies,
except the company shall at • general mooting determine
othereise, in which amaa-stamped prosy shall be sent to
each proprietor, with math instructions as aforesaid."
After • few words from Lord ST/SILTY of ALDZILIT,
the motion was agreed to.
THE WAR IN AVA.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH amid that to obligee the
noble earl at the headefthe he b,11fl", further
to postpone his media at use Went of the war in Ava
until Thursday med.

THE LORD LIEUTENANCY OF IRELAND.
The Earl of CARDIGAN, pursuant to notice, rose to
eel whether bar Majesty's goverement intended to tarry
into effect the ameenesnent made by the Secretary of
State for Fang& Lairs, when Fiat Lord of the Tres-
eery, of his imeatioa to do away with the allot of Lad
Lieutmeat of helm! ?
The Red of ARRADIBEN, before answering the sable
ail, mold en think kw:lmamate eater into an inquiry
SS 111 hew far it might be ea or t not to abolialt the
an be lieSedia ; MR he tooth uppaoan the mama
eummena whim *amble earl had described. No doubt
ibe Minn is tebidi be bed alluded bed sampied the at-
tention eimellemest NM of this loses more or hoe (re-
=but eshonmenight have bons the °pinkie of hi.
sod and 2. Ransil), his iateatioe as to the aboli-
tion of the else bed Mee abandoned before he left the
ollenies he bed bell se the heed of the IOVOTIMIOSR
Wbeerver Wen base ham the reasons which had induced
lbe pommel. it Mimi with m much armies in the sister
lienetry, that Nap Master of the sort described by the
noble earl as lady to Mead the abolition of the olio
Wald net havemenemened ler the ill-will and enmities
be aldiih it wadi bum gnus sise. (Hear, beer.) His noble
blind bed Ibenelbee ohendened the proposal ; and
11 (Lord Abeam) man beg loam n say, ear=n at the sisk
of loam the eatery wean of the sable earl, that be was
afraid he shield not be abbe to meet his ezpeetatieses.
(Hear, hear.) No doubt his mess= maid law bad is-
•idtwasateill more weight with his
w noble he ad et
Derby thee ith him the Earl of AbseMendleis (s), mil be
that the noble( WI had not seem the last year
Mae the need they bud just heard. (lambeer.) As the
nulls sad bad put the meal" what wee the iatentioe of
bee ms's portent 'overman, he (the Earl of Aber-
deen) meld answer without say lessitatioe that they had no
inteetiss Ie abolish the ones of Lord Lieutenant of Ire-

laad.
The Earl of WICKLOW was amok Misprinted at the
sewerer of the noble earl for whenever manes there might
sees have exerted for the. lk% raabased mate of the
essminunicatioas between the two sennteiss vandheed it now
Quite unnecessary. At all events, be these* Ise *pleal.
peptise of gamey ought not to be hstrnerd Is the L.ed
Lientesaat ; and ea event whisk bed ressady mennei was
an edditional reason why the preeepthe awed be atlmainl
thenrown
The Earl of DESART, on the asanw, Hartaght that an
'Moe which had been found et pest value for 600 ears,
ought not to be abolished Incept some =me nbeteatfal ad-
Tantrum could be derived, than bad been pointed see by
the noble earls who had addressed thsir kiweldps. The
benevolent sad patriotic serving et Lad Resismeregh. in
Is4B, of Lord Clarendon • die MOM meted et
aid lastly of the Earl of whose edminie
Vallee had bees carried ea with W osentesy, humanity,
simplicity sad liressean whids MIS bed ealealated te en-
sure the afection sal gaped of the Ida people, men to
make them panes, as they atlempME te dram so amigo
an inetitatim.
LAW REFORM.
Lord BROUGHAM having laid on the table a bill, the
abject of which was to extend to Scotland the now law of
evidence, allowing parties saiag se being seed to be wit-
nesses in their own case, expressed his repel that Ms noble
and learned friend on the wades* ahead have mirk his
statemeat on law reforms in his (Lord Brisegbanal) ab
mace, because, as the noble and learned lord had thought
proper to attack his (Lord Brougham's) measures, he felt t:
necessary on the first opportunity to defend them. No
doubt it wu very gratifying to the friends of law reform to
see the fortes of the government directed to that subject ;
bat when they found those forces going neither backward
nor forward, but merely performing the operation of
"marking time," the circumstance might well excite
their sirepicioas. He was afraid that thers:2
something in the statement of the noble and I
lord that looked like " marking time." The m
which the noble lord had announced were extreasely
sellable ; but of these the mat important was the
digest of the law. He (Lord Brougham) must say, that
the conduct of the late Lord Chancellor, in adopting tk• di.
gait of ertmindlaw, recommended by the Criminal Law Com-
mission, had bas Lord Brougham's) warmest approbation.
With respect to trial, G l forbid that lie wished to abolish
it. Nor was that proposed. What was proposed was, that

in certain came the parties should hap an option tied i< I
was not proposed that they should have tie option, even, in
cases of tort. Ile admitted that it. would require great '
consideration VI to the extent to *hi& the mattellingehl
he carried. But what had experience shown is tom;
Smarts ? Why that in only 3 ceasesin* of 100 had iviait 'es
chosen to have their cases tried by a juxy. He ho that
his noble and lentried friend (the Lord Chancellor)'would
apply himself to other matters as well as those to which
ho adverted in his speech, and that they would have the
benefit of his noble and learned friend's great learning,
hi -experience, and his sound rational views.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he eould enure their
lordships, and his noble and learned friend in particular, that
no one more regretted than he did that he felt bound to maks
his statement at a time when it happened that his noble
and learned friend was not present in the house, but
be thought it necessary to inform their lordships, ea anon
as possible, and through their lordship the country, what
the intentions of the government were. Perhaps if he had
known that his noble and learned friend would have been
s., early in the home, he might have made the statement
somewhat later. He regretted his noble and learned friend
was not present, because, amongst other reasons, he was
quite persuaded he would have felt that he exhibited no
intention to march in time instead of chancing, but that
be desired to advance, as he was sure his noble and learned
friend would wish him to do, safely and aecarely, though
always getting forward. Surely it was not merely march-
ing time when he announced his attention of going on with
the Registration Bill and with the Charity Bill of two
sessions ago—not exactly the same bill, but that bill
amended, and which was in such a state of progress, that
he hoped in a short time to lay it before the house ; and
when he announced his intention of proceeding at once
with a digest of the statute law. With regard to the ob-
eervations he was eupposcd to have made as to the
measure under the consideration of the Common Law Com-
misaioners for the abolition of trial by jury, he certainly
did not expre s what he meant, or he was mistindenzood.
He only said that the subject deserved the greatest consi-
deration ; because, though many questions, such as com-
mon debts, might be well decided without a jury, yet he
had seen at the assizes the beneficial effects of trial by jury,
and he thought they ought not to make any change en that
subject without the greatest consideration. He could only
say, in conclusion, that, in common with the lest of their
lordships, he felt the great debt which the country owed to
the noble and learned lord (Lord Brougham) for the seal
with which he bass always addressed himself to these sub-
jects, and he should receive with the greatest mention aay
auggestioas which the noble and learned lord might make.
The bill was then read a first time, and their lordship
adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—Tnuasom, FEB. 17.
The &main& tonic the chair at the 'noel hour.
GENERAL COMMITTEE OF ELECTIONS.

A report from this committee was presented, stating the
memben who had been nominated to serve on the election
commit.ess in the cams of Blackburn and Clitherm. The
names have been already pubbshed.
ARREST AND DISCHARGE OF A MEMBER.

The SnarIAIMAT.ARMS announced that, insursuaace
of the resolution come to by the boars yesterday, he had
the member for Orkney (Mr. Dundas) in his euvedy.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY stated that the hon. member
had been detained by illness at Paris ; but as soon as he
heard that he was wanted to serve on the Bridgnorth elect
tiu committee, he lost no time in histening here.
Mr. It. PALMER said he thought he was justified, by
the eircumscances of the cue, in moving that the hon.

member should be discharged out or custody without pay-
ing the Ices. As illness had been the cause of the boa.
gentleman's absence he did sot anticipate thatany objection
would be made to this motion. _ _

Sir R. INGLIS said it would be an unusual and an un.
precedented course to oppose such a motion. But, at all
events, he would cab the attention of the house to the fact
that all members were bound, whether in Paris, in Ork-
ney, or in London, to take notice of their obligations to
that house. Illness was a ground of absence which no
member would hesitate to entertain ; but it was fitting that
every member should know that his first duty in that
house was the public service, and that any neglect of that
duty, on the part of any individual member, necessarily ex-
posed hisfellow-enemben to very oonaiderable inconvenience
and expense.
Mr. BOUVENIE observed that if the hon. member for
Orkney was ill, of course it was inspouible that he should
be able to attend ; bet he must say he thought it was the
duty of that hon. member, knowing that he was on the
penel of service, and that he was unable to attend, toned
notice of his illness, and that he was in consequence unable
to be present. The inconvenience thus imposed on mem-
bers was very great ; and not only so, bat very great ex-
penes and inconvenience were entailed upon t►e parties.
Of course, if the hen. member's illness was such that he
was unable to attend, and he was detained at Paris in con-
sequence, not only could the committee not be sworn, but
they might be discharged ; all the proceedings might have
to be taken over again, and the witnesses kept in town'
from Beidgnorth at a considerable expense. He quite
agreed to this motion ; but in similar cases, in future, he
should take care to be one to oppose the discharge of mem-
bers without paying the feu.
The motion was then agreed to.

NEW WRIT.
Oa the weenie ol Lord HOT/1•11 • BOW writ MY Oro
dered for West Worcestershire, 10. place of General Lysol:,
called to the upper Num.

BRIDONORTEI ELECTION COMMITTEE.
The members of this committee, including Nr. DVXDAII,
then appeared at the table, and were sworn.
Several private bills were introduced.