The Express.
London, England, 1848-06-29 00:00:00

thought it rather unreasonable to make it smatter of cell
sure against the other members who bad notices on the paper
that they did not come down to make a boo-e. " And
really," said the hon. member, "if the sugar &hate, which
is of such pressing consequence, is to be postponed, in order
to make way for question which no oce thinks
it worth whir to consider, I think the hon. member for
Dumfries and the other gentlemen who rum the new party
at No. 14, St. James's-square, have no greater cause than
the resit of us to regret the unfortunate result Biz oshaa
Wahnsley's gross bribery at Leicester, and thef t inJ cones-
queues of being thrown out he is no longer able to whip
down his " committee " to make a house for these dreary
discussions." (Opposition cheers and laughter.)
Mr COBDEN.—I wish to call the attention of the house
end of the hon. member to an expression which has just
fellen from him, and which I am more he will imme-
diately retract. He spoke of what. he was pleased to
term, " Sir JoehuaWalmeley'e gross bribery at Leicester."
Now, I beg to remind him that the committee distinctly
exonerated Sir Joshua Walmeley from the charge of bribery
at the election in question ; and that being so, the hon. mem-
ber will, I hope, express his regret for having said what he
did. (Beer, hear.) With regard to the house not meeting
yesterday, it is perfectly notorious that when a house is not
made, it is only because tke government do not tyke mea-
sures to make one. (Oh, oh.) I repeat, it is notorious
that if the government do take active measures, they can
always make a house; and if they take active measures to
prevent a house being made they can always thwart any
private member who has a question to bring forward. Now,
I can say, from my own observation, that there was not a
single member of the cabinet present yesterday. Oh, oh.)
Sir G. GREY.—There were six members of the govern-
ment present
Mr. COBDEN—There was ot a single camber of the
government on the Treasury bennch.
Sir G. GREY.—Mr. Tutnell was here.
Mr. COBDEN.—Mr. Tanen was sitting near the door.
Why was not the hon. baronet here himself ?
Sir G. GREY.—Sir, I must say that the imputation of the
hon. member upon the government is one of the most unfair
and uncalled for that I ever heard. (Hear, hear ) It is
astonishing that with his parliamentary experience he should
not know that members of the government can be counted
even although they are not Bitting on the Treasury bench. I
repeat that there were six members of the government present
yesterday. The hon. gentleman asks where I was ? I was
attending a council at Buckingham Palace. (Hear. hear.)
And I take leave to repeat now,what I have said before, that
it is no part of toe duty of the government to make a house,
and that it is not, as the hon. member alleges, in their power
to prevent a house being made. The imputations of the ken.
member are meet uncalled for and unfounded. .
Mr. A. STAFFORD—I be, sir, to retract what I said
respecting Sir Joshua Vealmslgey. The committee reported
th t Sir Joshua Wahnsley was guilty of bribery, not by
himself but by his agents. I beg to retract, and to apolo-
give to Sir Joshua Walmeley. And, sir, I have another
apology to make. 1 find the hon. ,member for Dumfries
does not belong to the infant party in St. James'e.equare.
regret I associated him with such society. 1 beg to retract,
and to apologies to the hon. member for Dumfries. (Laughter,
and ironical cries of " hear.")
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said be had asked several of
his friends to come down yesterday to make a house in order
to enable him to bring forward his motion. With the ex-
ception of the lion. tar:abet for the West Riding they did
wit come. For his owe part, he bad nothing to ray against
the conduct of the government. (Cries of " hear, hear.")
Mr. GORING rose to protest against the practice of re-
quiring notices to be renewed in the cases of motions for
the issuing of new writs. They were partially suspending
the Habeas Corpus Act as regarded these botoughs. (A
leash.) He protested against their proceeeinge altogether.
Members opposite appeared to be mainly responsible for
this obstruction of public busincw. They were responsible
for more than that. It was their inflammatory haranguer
tkat had exci .ed the people. He charged the ho". member
for Montrose, advocate as he Will of economy, with le lag the
cause of the Tait expenditure which had been recently in-
curred in order to put down the riots in Leaden.
Alter an observation from Col. DUNNE, the subject

dropped.
RETURNS.
Col. SIBTHORP said he had moved for some returns
connected with the important duties of the Comptroller of
the Exchequer. Why were they not produced ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said diffi-
culties bad occurred in making them, in consequence of the
way in which they had been moved for.
tdr. EWART said he had rm,vcd for returns some time
since relative to the customs department. No such returns
had been made.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER vould in-
quire. He thought they had been on the table some time
ago, for he bad them before him for his private use six weeks
ur two months since.
ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF RILL.

The oriels of the day were then proceeded with.
Mr. C ANSTEY having mo' end that the Speaker do leave
the chair, in order that the house might go into committee
on this bill,
Mr. GORING rose to oppose the motion. He re-
spected the sincerity of those who brought forward this
measure but he thought they could only ixpect to
be dealt with as they dealt by others. Until all the anathe-
mas issued against protestants were withdrawn, be could see
no reason why we should be called on to raped the statute
on our books relating to Roman catholics. lie objected to
the time at which the measure was brought forward. The
conduct of the people of Ireland since the Emancipation Bill
had Reseed. was not such as to warrant the legislature in
granting the Roman catholics further concessions. The
measure would be regarded as an insult by the loyal orange
men and protestants of Ireland, on whom alone the govern
merit could 1, pend to quell that spt of rebellion, which the
noble lord's (.1. Russell's) policy t awards that country was
calculated to engender. He begged to move as an amend-
ment that the bill be postponed until that day fortnight.
The question having been put,
Sir H. W I LLOUGIIBY thought that the house ought not
to go into committee on the bill in the absence of the hon.
and learned gentleman the Attorney-General, whose opinion
was absolutely necessary with respect to an important amend-
ment which he had to propose, and which amendment was
on the paper. The hon. and learned Attorney-General him-
self had also an amendment to propose, and he wished to ask
the right hon. baronet opposite (Sir G. Grey) whether it was
probable he would be in his place during the discussion ?
Sir G. GREY said that his hon. and learned friend, anti-
cipating a tang discussion before the house went into
committee, bad absented himself, having very important
business to transact elsewhere. When the house was in com-
mittee he had no doubt his hon. and learned friend would
be in his place.
Mr. FORBES said that being opposed to the principles of
the bill, he should feel it to be his duty to support the amend-
sent of the hon. baronet behind him.
fled. TALFOURD thought that the house, having
already affirmed the principle of the bill, ought not again to
aster upon a discussion whereby that question was raised.
He thought the bill ought to be divided into two parts, and,
as he intended to oppose that part which went to disturb the
great measure of 1829, he would not make himself a party to
any motion for obstructing the progress of the bill in com-
mittee. When the bill was in committee, he should offer hia
most strenuous opposition to that part of it which tended to
increase the power of the Roman catholic' in this kingdom.
Mr. NEWDEGATE said that the amendment of the hon.
baronet was of very great importance, as the real object of
the hon. member for Youghal was to introduce the authority
of the Pope into the kingdom. The amendment of the hon.
and learned Attorney-General, of which notice was given on
a former occasion, did not sufficiently secure the protestant
constitution which was based on the 13th Elizabeth, an act
that the government was aiding the hon. member to repeal.
The houee ought n •ver
Lto lose sight of the fact that no Pope,
not even Pope Pius I, had ever consented to abandon one
iota of hie supremacy over England and Ireland. Oa the
contrary, the reigning pontiff had expressly asserted those
claims in:his encyclical letter ; and yet the government had
set on foot a sort of underhand communication with
' that sovereign. Was the present a time wheu her Majesty's
government was to countenance a measure giving further
concessions to the professore of popery in this kingdom?
Would the rit,ht hun. baronet opposite inform him whether
the Attorney-General's amendment would guard against the
introduction of papal bulls into this kingdom having autho-
rity in ecclesiastical courts, or in conferring benefices ?
Sir G. GREY declined to answer any questions relative
to the bill until the house was in committee.
Col. CONOLLY supported the amendment.
The house divided—For the motion lO2
Against it
The house then went into committee on the bill.
The CRAIRMIAN having put the amendment of the Attor-
ney-General, specifying the particular hulas which were to
be prohibited from publication within the kingdom of Great
Britain and Ireland,
Mr. NEWDEGATE repeated the question he bad before
put to Sir G. Grey.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the clause would
prevent the Pope front acquiring any legal ecclesiastical au-
thority in the kingdom, and indeed would render the exist-
ing law against the introduction of papal bulls into the
realm more stringent. Voluntary obedience might be paid
to the Pope's spiritual or ecclesiastical authority, but none
could legally be enlorced.
Sir R. I', GUS then understood that the Pope would not
be able to colon* any legal authority over Romeo catholic
priests in this kingdom sr in Ireland.
The AT 1 ORNEY-GENERAL assented to this observa-
tion.
Mr. NAPIER contended that there was no neoemity
for the amendment; the common law of the land de-
pustri;ihn cgiteyntto
buus
p. bypeenacit-
, tiered against the supremacy of the Pope and the
I authority of hie bulls, and the statute law only
iroegndpeerneaditithesen elmitmtohno awl moo
in the realm of England. By introducing the amendment
in the bill there was a statutable i ecognition of papal bulls,
which, under common law, were altogether prohibited to be
published in England, whatever their nature might be. On
them grounds he felt bound to oppose the amendment of the
hon. and learned Attorney General.
Mr. C. ANSTEY supported the amendment. The hon.
and learned member having at some length dissected the
legal objection' to his bill, concluded by calling on the com-
mittee to east aside all prejudice, and to do away with the
last remnant of intolerant legislation.
Mr. NE WDEGATE complained, amidst much noise and
loud cries of " diride," that the hon. and learned At-
torney-General had suddenly entered the boom, made a pro-
position, and then vanished, without waiting to hear th
hie
arguments which might be adduced against it. In s
opinion the effect of the hon. and learned gentleman's
amendment would be to recognise the aatkority of the Pope
in this cannily, and to take effectual measures for mast*
it permanent.
fin G. GREY explained that the amendment did not tend
to recognise the force of papal bulls in this country. On the
contrary, Its intention was to render more stringent the loot
already sainting eggsnst their introduction.
Mr. HENLEY objected tome amendment, as being
Niftiest fa Ontology wry oat the explioatios