The Express.
London, England, 1849-06-21 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, THURSDAY ]VENING, JUNE 21, 1849.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. metamustering the government forms, had
tr."
him= acesiderable period to iodine the'bouse
below the number requisite to keep a lareseee-that, la Witt
HOUSE OP COMMONS.—eWEDEMMAY, Jobs 20. the petiole= who was technically known as whipper',
The &mania took the chair at o'clock. in" bed, en this onasion, whipped the iinelmm out ofAse,
house. (Lamehter.) [The noble toed .(TalledfMarese HMS
PUBLIC BUSINESS. here entered the house, amidst, owl sheers and lauOtee;
PETITIONS PRESENTED. and the noble speaker reiterated presence the -Amos
MARNIAO.II But. —By Mr. THORNELY, from Woo that he had wad towag „awl him.]
nehempton ; Lord JOCELYN, from Lynn; Mr. it.WORI:-
MY, from various places ; Mr. Aldermen SIDNEY, hem .._.„LordM. HILL begged to ism!! the n_c_bbalevemrtlititliLtutee
Stafford; Mr. CARDWELL, from Liverpool ; the Marquis us. takes no open meaaures whatever to
oi-DOURO, from Norwich; Mr. V. SMITH, ?ton North- "untied' (Lend laughter.) An hon. friend of his told ben
that it was his intention to count out the house, and he nee
=plea • Mr. BUNBURY, from Buy St. Edmund's—in fa-
vours( bffi. Mr R. INGLIS, from the University of Edit"- of did not take any at pe to dissuade him from it.
bomb ; Mr. C. BRUCE, ham the General Assembly of (tau; o•gh,fr....),_Hvisthodidhosnote(suayihdtarec.i)ed steps to induce
the Church of Scotland; Mr. NAPIER (3), from places in lambs 7 •`"
Ironed ; Mr. PEEWEE, has firma:--agsanstthe measure. The IN ad of LINCOLN wished to know whether the noble
lend did not say man hon. gentleman whom he me coming
POOI4AIII 0/11CIRs' SUPERANNUATION FUND. —By
into the hepose, Do net go in, the house is about being
Mr.lbLeela, from Bottom, in favour of this proposition.
counted ?. (lee' MOW.)
Ceireintomns Don.—By AGLIONBY, from Attar- might have said something of that kind to
nies of Keswick ; Mr. W.J. PDX, from Oldham; Er W.
Lordb
.eshter.) But that did not imply any
BROWN, from gooneys sad solicitors of Rochdale—for the an -m• s'• have the bow minted. (Laughter.)
abolition of the certificate duty. attempt on his pot to
SUNDAY Taalnice.—By Mr. W. J. FOX, from Mr.et • hazd and cruel Case.
Mr. SLANEY deegeowled, thaw of counting oat
Deem, a hair-drover, Clerkeewell, against Sunday the house, which he thishoo
itading. had a right to DO as neon attended
(Laughter.) But he elm ht,112" tilnadtiaas todastlMa
working classes
DUBLIN Reyes BILL.-•E y Sir W. SOMERVILLE,
auestion relating to Vancouver's _lsland. (Hear.)
hem the Dublin Chamber of Commerce, in favour of
tide bill. Eng oat the bone had been so mach
Mr. AGLIONBY as
whether it would not be rights'
this BANKRUPTCY Law CONSOLIDATION But.—By Mr. M. atasaeosystemnad off , too" mow committee to eee how it could be
GIBSON, from the Alucbester Chamber of VODIMOTCII, and ead7;;;ented. (e. bh,") Althougliquesions affecting the
the Society for ilia Protection of Trade, in favour of this
colonies were of the highest importance, they all kuew that
withnolice referring them to the 'neat acannknaae""_ there was a particular portion of the evening n hen few mein-
ihe tannin. ben were present, although in an hour efterwaods 80 er 100
AIUUTRATIOX TRIATIES.—By Mr. BRIGHT (2), from members might be present. On to. occasion of the count out
Beeidale, in favour of the adoption of arbitration treaties last night there were three times more members on his side
boned et war far the settlement of international disputes. of the bone than on the other. (Hear.)
Mr. ADDERLEY said he could speak to the activity of
the noble lord in getting the house counted out last night.
Mr. V. SMITH protested against the doctrine of the hon.
member for Coelormounb, that they ought to abridge the
privilege of counting out. For if colonial subjects did cot
create that interest is the house which should prevent the
house when discussing them from being counted out, It
was only by having recourse to that means that the con-
stituencies could know that fact, and thereupon insist on
Emir representatives attending better to such matters. ( Hear.)
Rte thought the noble lord would only keep alive the laugh
egainet bun by taking notice of the matter and by affecting
surprise at what the noble lord (Marcus Hill) had done in
the performance of his duty. (Loud laughter.) Wby it
was a very usual thing, when little interest was taken in the
subject of a debate, or when the speech was not attractive
enough to keep a house, to kayo recourse to a count out.
(lieu, hear.) It was not the business of the government to
keep a house for an adverse motive, and if that gallant party
which sat below the nut le lord had not good will enough to
remain, and if bin own tollowers were ton numerous enough
to melee a house, he did not think he was justified in blaming
any others.
Mr. HAWES declared that he knew there was any
intention of a count out, and he could only express his
great disappointment and diem:Troy-1 of it. (Hear, hear.)
But he must my that for nearly two hours of the noble lore's
speech there were only from 25 to 30 members present.
(Heir, hear.)
Mr. HUME thought that no liminess should be proceeded
with unless 200 memoirs or more were present. (Laughter.)
If that rule were adopted hon. gentlemen would come there
to attend to the business of she nation, mil not for other
. (Hear.) lie denied that the noble lord, because
ofPliria
ptnition, had a better title to ecmplain than others at
balgonated out. They were all equal in that house. (Hear.)
wee a general practice with bon. gentlemen to rush out
of the house when the estimates of the public ear niiture
came before it. (Hear, hear.) If on these occasions he
used the power weich hon. gentlemen did at other times,
he might put a stop to many a mote. (Hear) He thought
it a power that was frequently abused. (Hear.)
MARRIAGES BILL—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
On the motion fur resuming the aojourned debate on the
second reading of this kill, 1
Mr. NAPIER said that though he had fully satisfied his ,
own mind as to the inexpe iency of this bill, he admitted it '
was one of c oniderable dittiotPy, and that ought to be
approached in the m rat calm and dispassionate manner. He
would avoid ill the collateral topics wiriest had been ihtroduced
into the discussion, and which only served to embarrass the
question. The three propositions which he thought the '
suppertms of the bill were bound to sustain, and on which
he thought the bill ought to be argued, were these:—first, '
that the prohibition of these marriages was not required by I
the Levitical law; secondly, that it wee not warranted by ,
the principles and tenets of chntienity ; and thirdly, that
the general interests of sociley would be promoted '
more by the allowance of these marriages titan by
their prohibition. These were the three propositions which I
the supporters of this bill were bound to maintain. '
Now, it he was fight in the view be took, he was in a con-
dition to displace all these, propositions. It would be enough
for him to displace any one of them, butthoee who Emptied I
the bill were bound to snstsin them all. (Hear, bear.) It
was said that the Lenient liw was not binding en a Chris-
tian community. He would not dwell much on that '
meet, because the commissioners themselves, far from adopt-
ing such an argument and repudiating that law, referred
to it as sustaining the allowance of these marriages.
The first proposition turned of courts upon the construction
of a passage of scripture. The injunctions in Leviticus were
set merely pisitiv • regulations, but re gulations founded on '
the wide basis of social expediony, and were no binding on
ehristiana es en Jews. The house must look at the general
bearing and scope of this chapter, and consider it as having
sisierence to marrimr, to family, and to srciety. Reason
and revelation united in showing the necessity for restriction.
Ow of the wituesees had assumed that the whole argument
widest the marriages under considerauna was founded on
lbe 18th verse. He (Mr. Napier) thought the 6th verse
was the meet conclusive, being a general prohibition of mar-
demo between persons who were nearly skin. (Hear,
hear.) That verse embraced cases of affinity as well as cases
of consanguinity. (Hear, heir.) If the argument on the
other side were rtglitoso marriage could be condemned which
was not expressly prohibited ; yet there was no externs prohibi-
tioo of the marriage of a father with his daughter. The omis-
sion of express men'ion anus to which the general prohibi-
tion er i lently applied only showed the extent of the restriction.
(He ir, hear.) In reciting all the attempts to get rid of the
chapter there were admissions of the very principle for
which he coutended. It the principle of those who were for
abolishing the restrictions under diecuseien were correct, it
must be carried out to all its legitimate consequences.
(Hear, hear.) The niece and the daughter were not mimed,
and according to the argument used, therefore, they were
not excluded. It was said that persons ought not to be de-
nied the right of private judgment ; but while he admitted
that, be maintained that they were bound to follow sound
demons of criticism. The translatiou of the 18th verse was
esmewhat di
sputed. But did that verse in any way apply to
the 6th verse ? Polygamy itself was not expressly forbidden
la the New Testament ; it was oaly forbidden by implica-
tive lad by considerations connected with the object, unity,
end sacredness of marriage. They were now asked to
remove the corner-stone of society, and put in a new one.
He called upon the house net to place its leg'elstion in colli-
sion with the religious convictions of the community. He
considered that the feeling of the cetunry was almost unani-
mous against this proposition ; in Ireland it was perfectly so.
In Scotland, the entire body of the church was ranged
against it ; the church of Ireland and the church of Scot-
land were pledged against it ; wen a few individuals then,
who in giving way to their personal passions, put at naught
the word of God and the law of man, to setup their will suc-
cessfully against that law of God and of man ? Sixteen
interested panne, who had wilfully violated the law, tau
professional men engaged by them, and three stay clergy-
men, who had peculiar views of particular texts of Scripture,
seemed to be the entire force on which, out of doors, the
advocates of this measure in the house had to rely. (Hear.)
He denied that it was a question in which the poor were in-
terested. The hon. and learned gentleman said that in a social
point of view the success of the measure would be moot p r-
eiders ; it would wholly destroy the pure sanctity which
now honoured and blessed the relation between a man and
his wife's sister, and would subject the latter, in whatever
delicate attention she proffered, to the imputation of catering
for msnisge.
The WED-ADVOCATE mid that in • religious point of
view the house was warmly the fittest arena in which to
discuss this question, but this point of view could not be
omitted from their earnest consideration, sines, were it
clearly esteblished that the measure was arrainst the express
word of God, there was an end of the matter. He had him-
self felt it to be his duty to inquire most diligently into this
part of the question, and he bad come to the clear and dis-
tinct conclusion that the union contemplated was not con-
trary to the word of God. (Hear, hear.) The church
of Rome had never declared the union to be cannery
to the express or implied word of God, although it
had, for political purpose., condensed it. The church of
England had not declared it a void marriage, but merely
voidable—voidable at the instance of particular parties, by a
Particular form, in particular courts, and under particular
leircumetaacen. The statute law of Scotland denounced any
marriage within the degrees set forth in the 18th chapter of
'Leviticus as incest, and punished it with death ; and he had
himself known cases in which persons offending against this
, law had been punished, not, certainly, with death, but with
Ireneportatiou. There was in his opinion a growing
conviction every day that this union was not ma
teary to the word of God. He was hilly aware of
all the objeastions to the measure, but he weld not Dea-
nne to leghing as the pert of a very smell minority,
and he Wool when were the impediments which God
had pissed hi the wog et these marriage.? He, speak-
ing as gee Of the mmelialitaten, mast say that thins who
I were exandeed hare Mal, lied who inked for this =am%
gene net penuou of dim or irregular habits; the
=K, they wen of chaste and religious hang,
need that woe with them, but that man was
against them. However, putting aside the religious and
natant view of the matter, he asked were they justified in
ps~t
' in laws which the great metority of the Teeple
ei upon unjust, impolitic, and nowiseMeer
Mr. GLADSTONE admitted that this mesure might be
of assistance to the upper and mids'.ie darts; bat he denied I
that any advantage would scents to the poorer class. Out
of 1,848 marriages, eases collected most carefully by the to.
vernment, be Sound that 1,604 belonged to the ;iodate {Dam,
106 to the upper, and oraly 40 to the lower, whe formed
tbe great balk of the cOmmaunity. This was not a men
q *wino of civil liberty, then. He might imagism the
' Roman catholic. or other bodies denying the right of the
I state to beetatooe the issue in certain Wes; bat be did ob-
i et to the tegelisies of marriagesSeeerding to the
law of Dte church, were not lawful. The principle of this
bill Mr•li to alter the law of the church as et present Web-
liehtel. The mat-sr was not at all anel%otas to the marriage
tel priests, ',high ova merely an neledustical prohibition ;

REGISTRATION OF MARRIAGES (SCOTLAND)
BILL.

Mr. HUME, ea this bill going into committee, to move
that its farther consideration be adjourned till there be laid
bakes the house al estimate of the expense which would be
thereby incurred. The same ben. member to move, on
Wednesday next, for a aeries of returns, the subject of which
was not heard.
VANCOUVER'S ISLAND.—THE "COUNT-OUT. "
The Earl of LINCOLN said, that is eamequernee of the
bowie having been counted out yesterday. through the In-
eizeunentality and in meserquence of the active extract= of
persons commuted with the government—(Hear, bear)—
especially of one who was entru,ted by the government with
the duty of mustering up their forces on occasions of that
bled, he should resew his motion so cut short yesterday.
(Hear, bear.)
Mr. TUFNELL—Does the noble lord allude to me ?
The Earl of LINCOLN said he did not allude to the hoe.
Nentlesnea in retereau to the counting out ; but he begged
is my that the hon. gentleman did all he could to prevent
the house being made at 4 o'clock.
Mr. TUFNILL begged to contradict that, and to say
that he had done all he could to get a house, and that, but
ter him, the house would not have been Made. He was
Wto leave the house from indispnaition before the
Word concluded Lis speech, and could not, therefore,
have had anything to do with the counting out.
The Earl of LINCOLN said that when he entered the
bows, at a few minutes after 4 o'clock, an hon. friend bad
ladeemed him that he had only just ems in in time to
make the fortieth menhir, and that only one member con-
nested with the government was present when the house
was made.
Mr. HUME bore te.timony to the hon. member (Mr.
Tamil) having complained of ill health end left the house
is consequence. When the motion for counting the home
wee made, he certainly was not in the house.
The Earl of LINCOLN begged to say that he did not al-
lude to the ban. member (He. Tureen), but to the noble
lord the member for Ensheru (Lord Mere= Hill). (Hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that for a consider-
able period during the aseire‘s of the noble lord, which had
eesapied about four hour", there were only four or five mem-
bers= his own side of the bout. (Hear, hear.) If the
loose was to be counted, it was obviously highly inconve-
nient that it should be so after the noble lord had male his
address, and when his hon. friend (Mr. Hawu) was about
rising to give what he believed would have been a moat
satisfactory answer. When the noble lord made his com-
plaint, he ought to have calculated en whet was likely to be
the effect of so long an address. (Hear, bear.)
After a few remarks la a ocieverrational tone from one or
two other boo. :umbers, the subject dropped.
__ _ _ PALACE COURT.
___

Kr. ROEBUCK faked it the pirWiSices of the bill re•
Wing to this tout would also apply to another court (the
name or which was not hoard) ?
The ATTORNEY•OBNERAL replied la the affirmative.
LITERARY INSTITUTIONS.

Hr. BROWN ;Zed tieA7toen ei:General whether he had
yet considered the edentate 8.-eietlea' Exemption Bill re-
hared to his consideration by the noble lord at the head of
the government, and if so, when it would be proceeded with?
The ATTORNEY GENERAL raid he had considered
tie measure alluded to. It was a measure for simplifying
mad carrying Into effect the taimption of mechanics' institu-
time and hterary and scientific institutions generally from
rates. The gentlemen who had the confidence of thorns
aseleties had ropcsed to him a bill for that purpose, *deb
he could not altogether approve. To two of its provisions he
entertain. si great °N. ctiou, one being the creation of a new
°Mee in that of the Secretary of State, to be paid by fees.
He certainly should not accept the bill if this provision wire
persisted in.
Mr. M. GIBSON asked if the hon. and learned gentleman
*Med is the principle of the bill, and whether he would
consent to trier in inch a bill without the clause appointing
the new °Meer ?
Mr. BRIGHT put a simile question.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL declined to pledge him-
self to bring in such a aware.
AFFAIRS OF CANADA.

Mr. llllRRllii,after reaii•gesne extracts from a de-
spatch of Lord Elgin of the 12th May, 1848, asked what an-
swer had been made to the representations of the American
government thou transmitted ?
Mr. LABOUCHZRE said be bad not fully understood
what the question was when the notice was given ; he hoped
it would be repeated to morrow. He knew that represent'.
dons had been received as ti the advantages of having a free
coauser.ial intercourse between the United States and our
American colonies. The United Bates government, he be-
lieved, would give all the facility in their power to such com-
munication. He hoped to be excused stating in detail the
mode by which the governaent hoped to promote this ob-
ject ; but they should lose no opportunity of doing so, whe-
ther by representation to the Austrian goveremo at or other.
wise.
NAVIGATION LAWS.

Mr. GLADSTifilliarkeciMiether there had been any
communication with foreign powers, u to the effect of the
alterations now In the terms on which their goods
and vereels would be itted, by the alteration of the navi-
gation laws.

Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the government bad cow
muniested to foreign powers generally the altered aerations
of the navigation laws.
Mr. GLADSTONE said there were a number of specific
treaties, with different powers, which would all be affected in
a different way by the alterations ; and these powers would
be entitled to hold us to our definition o' a " national vessel"
—ens manned with three-fourths British seamen. He
wished to be snored that foreign vessels might not thus be
brought within the definition.
Mr. LABOUCHERE declined to answer legal questions
of that kind across the table. The operation of the new bill
had Undeterred ter some months, to gustiest) for the Deem-
amp arrangements to be made with foreign pewees.
ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION BILL.
Mr. HORSHAM asked if the government were sincere in
their intention to carry through this bill in the present sea
aim. Should they fail to do so, it would be a violation of
their faith with parliament, and he hoped the house would
express iu opinion of that breach of faith.
Sir. (3. GREY was understood to say that the next stage
tithe bill stood for Monday, when some statement would be
made on the subject.
Mr. HUME moved for a copy of a despatch from Lord
Metcalfe, dated the 28th of October, 1837.
Mr. WILSON said there would be no objection to produce
such a paper if it existed. But he doubted if it existed.
Mr. HUME said be would then postpone the motion,
though he had the paper in his own poraession. (Laughter.)
GUIANA. - -

On the motion of Mr. kings ;;Pies and extraets of dee-
patehee relating to British Goias& wen laid on the table.
THE COUNT OUT.
• -

Mr. GLADSTONE sold he woe quite sure that there wa_
no Winston on the part able right hon. friends, the mem-
bers of the government, to get rid of the motion of his noble
friend in the manner that had been done. The impropriety
of getting rid of such a question in such a manner was so
obvious that be wished the hon. baronet the member for
Sunderland, to whose intenrention they owed that occur-
rence, had been there to state the motives by which be
was a/tasted in exercising on this occasion that privilege
whkdi le admitted to he sometimes a useful one. (Hear,
boar.) What he would now suggest to the government was
that they should name a day for the renewal of the debate on
the motion of his noble Mead.
Mr. LABOLICHERE could nut undertake, in the ab-
game of his noble friend, to say that any arrangement of
that kind scald take place. He regretted as much as any
one the 'Mimi, end which this thermion had come to.
- (Lasokter.) He sincerely regretted that the house and the
egeantrp had not an opportunity of hearing what he believed
• would have been a sufficient answer to the speech of the
noble bed. But he must protest against the dorrine that
the government were bound to keep a house. (Hear, hear.)
Be believed there were seven members of the government
priest when the house was counted out, whilst of the
*Ode lord's Mends there were scarcely so many present.
(Seer) Considering the ration and position of the noble
Toed In the house, he should have thought that his own in-
fluence am,npt his own friend. ought to hays been euth-
enist to tare kept a house.. (Hear.)
TRELAWNY laid that f r wine time that be
wee in, the noble lord (Limier) was not himself parent.
The Earl of LINCOLN admitted that he was accidently
absent for a few isimite:. H had sever said dial it wee
the duty of a goverment to keep a house. What he did
my was, that sere was an attempt made to prevent a
house being made. When the home was made, the
poly member of the government who was ;Dreamt was the
hon. sod gallant member for Greenwich. lie alio uid, and
be now repealed if, that the noble lord to whom was en-