The Express.
London, England, 1847-12-10 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS;4•FIXIDAY EVENING, DECEM:

the go'.ernmeat would greatly liaMage the law by leae.—_
its examtion in such hands. With respect to the clause
which imposed the whole expense of the extra coa
torn employed in the disturbed athlete, he mr 4171
would work. • very grievous Weak& With regard
to the provisions in reference to the registitilien of
arms, while he thought the government had dm* well in
taking that duty from the local magistrates, between whom
and the people there existed "war almost to the death," he '
still was not satisfied as to the character of the persons who
were to be sent down to register, arms. Somer sepia-
nation from the government was nunnery in that rimed.
He now came to the clauses which dealt with
the Whiteboy Acts. Severe, harsh, and cruel as were the
provisions of those acts, their powers could not bephroe:2lst !
into play except disturbances and outrages were to
exist is the district. This bill did away with the necessity
of such proof, and its provisions might be enforced in the
most peaceable district in the country at the mere will and
pleasure of the dictator—the despot—the Lord Lieutenant of
Ireland. On the whole this was a meet grievous
hardship ; and when be had consented to the
first reading of the bill be never contemplated tint it would
provide such ingenious and tortuous tyranny. It was an '
insidious, deceitful, sneaking bill, seeking to accomplish
ends which could not be asked for boldly and openly. He,
therefore, must oppose it, though he knew his opposition
wou
Mr. ld b
13 e ineffectual.
. COCHRANE expressed astonishment at the
course taken by the bon. member who had last spoken, and
who, on the hitroduction of the bill, had professed to give
his went to it. Comparing this bill with former coercion
bills, and competing the present state of Ireland
with its condition in former periods, he was rather
surprised that the house did not call out for the bill to be
cede stronger, instead of listening to such philippics as
Memel the hon. member, whose only specific seemed to be
that England must be con'tinually.sending relief to reland.
(Ms" hear.) To relieve the existing distress win
less the
pinkie of government than of private charity ; and that
dimity had been most nobly exerted. (Hear, bear.) It
might have been expected that the hearts of Irish members
would be overflowing with gratitude; instead of that, they
ebeod up and declared that nothing had been done for In-
tend. He next alluded to the recent speeches of
the Irish priests, observing that be was no
enemy to the Roman catholics, so he had proved by
the vote he gave on the preceding day. (Hear, hear.) At
the very same meeting at which Archdeacon Laffan had
fulminated his horrible and iniquitous harangue, the hon.
member for Limerick (Mr. J. O'Connell) had talked to the
assembly of " their beloved priests," the " ministers of
moos and the upholders of order." (Hear, hear.) Even
the higher orders of the Roman catholic clergy, the Arch-
bishop of Team, and the Bishop of Limerick, far from check.
ing these fearful sentiments in the inferior clergy, had
themselves denounced the conduct of the upper classes, and
thus made themselves accessories before the fact, and insti-
gators of crime. (Hear, Leer.) He denounced men who
acted thus ; but he admitted that there might be many who
thought they were doing good to their country, while they
were luring it on to ruin. He would urge the government
fearlessly to execute the law against persons who thus con-
verted liberty into licentiousness. Never. till the people
were taught the omnipotence of the law, would the union
with Ireland be what it ought to be.
Mr. HUME said be had uniformly protested, throughout
hie life, against the oppression of Ireland, and had advocated
measures of amelioration. He had voted against the coer-
cion bill of the right hon. baronet opposite ; but in support-
ing the present bill be could not be accused of inconsistency,
for this was not a coercion bill. (Hear, hear.) The hon.
member for Limerick had talked of Its coercing the people of
Ireland. This was not the case it was only meant to
coerce those who were committing murder and outrage,
and preventing the peaceably disposed from puritans their
occupations; ten short, it was only to punish the
violators of the law. (Hear, hear.) Another fallacy
of the hon. member for Limerick was, the assertion that the
Irish members opposed this bill. Why, on the first divi-
sion, out of 105 Irish members, only 14 had voted satinet it,
and only 13 on the second division. (Hear.) This re-
minded him of the complacent assumption of the " Three
11 1.•111 of Tooley-street." (Laughter.) Then the hon.
esemslem said that the bill made the Lord Lieutenant • dicta-
tor. So far from this, the Lard Lieutenant could out=
conjunction with his privy council, and the bill was
strictly confiocd to disturbed districts. •But the ministers,
of the hon. member, who claimed for himself to lie the re-
presentative, par excellence, of Ireland, might be judged
from a letter which he had addressed to the editor of the
Freeman, dated " House Library, half-put eleven, p.m.,
Nov. 29," in which he himself stated that the bill was to
regulate the carrying of mars and would only be applicable
be disturbed districts. He " This, it must be ac-
knowledged, is very different from what we expected from
to threats that have been held out ; and, if fairly adminis-
iseed, may not inconvenience any but the authors of disturb-
ing& I have not opposed, neither have I voted for, the in-
itialisation of this bill, as some temporary measure relative to
nue may, in the disturbed districts, be useful, and as an it:t-
enure of police cannot be had without" (Cheers and
laughter.) The hon. member bed brought forward charges
founded on letters in newspapers, reflecting on the charac-
ters of the recent victims • amongst others, on a person
named Taroin, who had actually been shot at seven times,
and was now to be held up as a tyrant to the whole of Ire-
land. (Hear, hear.) Was this the way to appease
the agitation, and to stay the shedding of blood ? (Cheers.)
Was it not rather more likely to have an opposite tendency.
(Hear.) He (Mr. Hume) was convinced that the great
bulk of the English people were favourable to justice to Ire-
land ; but if a priest, in the morning, was to denounce
from the altar • person who was amounted before night—
and if the ssssssin could afterwards come and obtain abed-
lotion—what should the inhabitants of England and Scot-
land thigh of such a state of things? (Hear.) What
should they think of the parochial clergy of Ireland who,
above all men, ought to be exemplary in their conduct, and
inculcators of peace? (Hear) He had always been a
friend to the Roman catholies and their clergy ; be had
tharekee looked anxiously. for some monition from the higher
elan at the clergy, warning the priests to be more guarded
awl linnet in their language ; and such it was clearly their
IMF M. ham given ; but be regretted to say he bed looked
In 'di& H. deplored the unfounded opposition of certain
hue, 1111•61111140 this bill. The hon. member for Limerick,
to the introduction of the measure, and
its principle, ought to have continued
hi bill bill went into committee, when his ob-
jeginsile the details might have been properly urged. The
11,11111111 at had been blamed for not bringing forward
aseeniin of relief and amelioration, and he certainly thought
that eink measures ought not much longer to be deferred.
He thsemlst there was a deep conspiracy against the pay-
ment einem. The erudition of allegiance was protection
to life and property, and it was necessary for government
to
step into protect life and property, in order that industry
sad capital might work out their legitimate results. He did
not know how the questions between landlord and tenant
were to be settled, but if the landlord and tenant, were to
become joint tenant., he saw • more mischievous law for
Ireland than ever had existed before. (Hear bra.) He
knew oases where penons had refused to pay their rent or
give up the land they held, and persisted In doing so until
they were forcibly ejected. If that was to be the tenant-
rigbt, how could they expect employment for the poor and
how could they hope for the prosperity of Ireland ? (Hear,
hear.) He bad *imp advocated the just claims of Ireland,
but he thought the present bill was necessary for the well-
being of that country. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. CALLAGHAN said it was difficult to find words to
express his feelings of the fallen state of the hon. member
who had just sat down—(laughter)--now that he had become
the advocate of coercion bills for Ireland. The hon. gentleman
proceeded to defend the Irish priests, and declared that the
bill before the house would only aggravate tbe evils which
they must all deplore, instead of effecting any good for that
country. It would lead the country with expenses which
must be paid by the landlord, the tenant, and the labourer,
and fail to afford greater protection to life and property. He
did not object to the bill because it was not at once accom-
panied by remedial measures; he wished to see a good land-
lord and tenant bill, and he did not believe the landlords of
Ireland would object to any fair proposition on the subject.
(Hear.) He disbelieved the statements made as to the
priests; they were well-educated and loyal men from one
end of the country to the other. (Oh, oh.) He certainly
did know a cue where a priest read from the altar an
amount of a number of turkeys which a gentleman had lost,
and he added that it he had given away more of them he
would have loot lets. (Laughter.) Bat he was sure no
priest in Ireland would dare to mitigate the people from the
altar to the commission of assassination and murder.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR said, although the bill professed to be
so mild In its nature, it wss coercive in its character—it
left an indefinite degree of force to be used by the Lord-
Lieutenant at his pleasure; it, in fact, embraced all precious
coercion bills, end was " a mockery, a delusion, and a
snare." The present government, when out of office, op-
posed the last ooercion bill, because they said remedial mea-
sures were not laid upon the table at the same time—
(hear, hear) and until a good and soeleient land-
lord and tenant bill, an extended electoral fran-
chise bill, and a municipal corporation reform bill
were proposed, he would not rapport any measure of a
coercive character. The noble lord now at the head of the
government had detailed crimes of greeter magnitude when
the right hon. baronet the member for Tamworth process'
his coercion bill, and, nevertheless, persisted in rejecting it
until remedial measures were prepared. (Hear, hear.) He
(Mr. O'Connor) would support a landlord and tenant bill
which should confirm the landlord in possession of his pro-
perty but oblige him to patent the duties which apper.
tamed to that property—(hear, hear)—and he would snake
the ejectment of bad tenants easier than it was at present.
Lord D. C. STUART said it was • meet melancholy thing
that they were called on to deems a subject of this kind after
the professions deo many hoe. gentlemen that they were
desirous of ameliorating the condition of Ireland. He be-
lieved that the people of Ireland were brought to their pre-
sent condition by the misconduct of former government&
which had been continued for centuries. That was a nem
why they ought to look on many of the faults committal lel
Inland with indulgence ; but that was no reasonable Soy
should refuse to pass this bill. If they aellaill' 1110
present reign of terror in Ireland to continue, that I
would be mooed only to the Austrian trovernmen:rar,
not only coffered tenant/ to murder their landlords,lout ill-
nigated them with honours and gold. (Hear, bear.)
Mr. H O'CONNELL was surprised that the noble lord
who had just sat down, and whose philanthropy towards'
foreign nations was proverbial, should have so littrizisai
pithy for Ireland as to recommend for that country
better than coercion. The noble lord was the avowal pm.;
tector of rebels against their sovereign in Poland, and the
avowed oppressor of the loyal people of Ireland, although of
the people of Poland he believed the noble lord knew very
little. The noble lord, however, only resembled many other
hon. members in that home, each of whom bad some
crotchet, some favourite question by which to display his
sympathy for the sufferings of others. One honourable
member took up the cease of an East Indian prime,

Weeks, ineeffser that of the
iss ,• birssiose Mweryit any symaffijifAth2Laittej:.
boon is Wand. Their sharity
It remained. The aside Ltd
Ed that
if what had occurred In Ireland had occurred in
England there would have bean a coercion bill for
this eountry_? The .noble lord evidently knew •a
little about England as he knew about Ireland. When
riots occurred in the manufacturing districts they had
been put down, not by coercion, but by conciliation. Was
there any ectenson bill in 1842 for the rioters is the midland
districts .
Sir B. HALL.—Were there any murders ? (Hear, hear.)
Mr. M. O'CUNNELL.—He would not shrink Ns that
point. There were at all times plenty of men gain SIMMS
the country armed to the teeth. Let them look at the his.
baronet's own district in Waled. The hon. baronet strayed
in that district in 1842, not only the sword of war, but ef
justice. The Irish asked nothing further than that judge
should be done them, as it was done to the English, to the
Scotch, to the Welsh, when they complained of opprenien
and maltreatment.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE must be excused from follow*
the bon. member over the very extensive range he had
travelled is his speech, very little of which had reference te
the rubject immediately before the house. Both the has.
gentleman and those who preceded him in opposition to the
measure had enlarged to a very great extent upon the ale
leged inconsistency of those who having formerly resisted a
measure of coercion for Ireland now themselves introduced
a measure of mercies. lie should have vary little difficulty,
if he thought it necessary, in removing from himself and those
with whom he acted this imputation of inconsistency, inn-
, ference to cases between which there was no anal but after
the generous support given to the bill by all parties in the
house, and especially by the right hon. member for Tam-
worth, and with the deep feeling he had that no time
should be lest in putting au end to the reign of terror which
now prevailed, and to the system of assaasinution so disgrace-
ful to the land of his birth, he would be content to remain
under the hen, member's imputation, if by avoiding the full
refutation of which it wee capable, he could hasten the
pasaing of • measure he deemed so urgent. (Hear, hear.)
TM only point for *the consideration of the house was,
whether the measure now before it was necessary under the
lamentable circumstances which prevailed. It was not
merely the number of the crimes committed in Ireland that
alarmed him; it was, more especially, the type and nature
of those crimes. (Hear, hear.) 'lake, for example, the
murder of Major Mahon, the most atrocious of all these as-
sassinations. Numerically, that stood in the list as simply one
crime amongst the rest; but look at all the circumstances
attending it ; consider the terror created throughout the
whole district in which the unfortunate gentleman had
lived ; reflect upon the sympathy created
ed there with that
I fearful deed of blood, so that the murder corpse had to be
hurried prematurely to its sepulchre, lest even the poor re-
, mains should be outraged—/hear. hear) ; reflect upon
' these thing*, and then say whether it was not essential at
once to apply a remedy. (Hear, hear.) The question then
wall, did the house think the proposed measure would con-
stitute such a remedy ? In his opinion the measure, if dl-
Mostly carried out—and all who knew the Lord-Lieutenant
of Ireland would feel confident that it would be efficiently
denied out—(hear, hear)—would suffice to put down that
system of aseaseination, that reign of terror which was now
stalking through the land. (Hear, hear.) His hon. friend
(Mr. J. O'Connell), had complained of deception respecting
*is bill, insomuch as he bad expected it was to be only local
hilts operation. Now, if government had specified only''reer-
tain counties, or baronies, or tnwnlands in the bill, and that
crime broke out in other districts, would not the house and
the country laugh at such a bungling attempt at legislation ?
This he would undertake to say for the noble lord at the
head of the Irish government, that wherever assassination or
outrage took place, there and there only in Ireland would
the bill be put in force. The hon. member for Nottingham,
in opposing the bill, had insinuated that there were no real
grounds for extraordinary measures; that the cases which
had been quoted were tramped up cases. Were the cases of
Major Mahon and Mr. Lloyd trumped up cases? (Hear,
bear.) Had not crimes disgraceful to the Irish name taken
, and were not the criminals still at large. (Hear,
11:a7.)
His hon. friend, the member for Limerick, bad ob-
jected to the appointment of Mr. Ryan as a stipendiary ma-
gistrate, bat Mr. Ryan had been especially recommended to
ides Lord-Lieutenant as an extremely active person in the
detection of criminals, and in his appointment the noble lord
had only been actuated by that which was his usual motive
of action, a zeal for the public service. It had been
urged that this bill should not be proceeded with
until certain remedial measures had been laid on
the table. A landlord and tenant bill had been
spoken of, hut if that had been brought in it must
have lain on the table until after Christmas; and besides,
be did not see what connexion that question had with the
existence or suppression of crime. (Hear, hear.) His be-
lief was that a landlord and tenant bill, which should even
give up all the rights of property, would not prove • remedy
he the present state of things. The ruffians who were at
present covering Ireland with crime were neither landlords
aor tenants ; their object wets to establish • reign of terror
Is favour of those who would neither pay their rents, nor
give up their lands. (Hear, hear.) He submitted that
the necessity for this measure had been fully proved ;
he did not say that it would be sufficient, but be knew that
whatever powers it contained would be fully and efficiently
carried ant. A great deal had been raid about coercing Ire-
land; but this was no coercion bill ; it was • bill for the pro-
tedious of life and property. (Hear, hear.) Ho believed
that the farmers and tenant* of lrelend, even the poor cabin
holders, would be thankful for it. He was not one of those
Irishmen who thought that the character of his countrymen
was sympathy with aseamination, and although the contrary
had been asserted, he believed that the apparent sympathy
which existed was only the result of the reign of terror
which had ken established throughout the country. (Hear.)
He regretted that his noble friend, the member for Limerick,
had changed his opinion since the first introduction of the
bill. The provisions had been then most accurately de-
scribed, and his hon. friend had as good materials for judg-
ing as on that evening. He (Sir W. Somerville) felt it to
be his duty to support the bill, not only from his official
position, but as a friend to Ireland, and he believed that he
could not describe it better than in the words of the hon.
member for Montrose, as a bill which, if fairly administered,
would be an inconvenience to no one but the authors of
outrage and murder. (Hear. hear.)
Mr. GRACE regretted very much the state to which the
county he had the honour to represent was reduced. He
regretted also the allusions which bed been made to the
late lamented Major Mahon. He lived within a few miles
of that gentleman's residence, and if there had been any
foundation for the statements so fully made, he must have
known it. He was now, however, in a condition positively
to say that they. were utterly groundless. (Hear, hear.)
He had communicated his information to the hon. member
for Tralee, who had premised to mention it in his speech.
He (Mr. Grace) had, however, listened in vain for the ex-
pected retraction, and he now appealed to the hon.
member to say whether what he stated was or was not the
fact (Hear, hear.)
Mr. M. O'CONNELL admitted the truth of the hon.
member's statement, but the fact was, that in the
heat of debate the matter bad escaped his memory.
The statement to which the honourable member al-
luded was that in which the late Major Matson was
accused of sending away two cargoes of emigrants in un-
seaworthy ships. He (Mr. O'Connell) now confessed his
belief that his statement, on a former evening, respecting
those ships was not properly founded. (Hear, and laughter.)
He had received the statements since has arrival in London,
and had no evidence to support them. (Hear, hear.)
An Hots. hiesslEß, asked would the hon. member for
Tralee give up his authority ?
Mr. M. O'CONNELL must decline doing eo. If every
one was obliged to give up his authority for any statement
he might make, man' members of that house would be
placed in an extraordinary position. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. CRAWFORD said the principle of the bill was
coercion, it was an endeavour to suppress cri us by powers
unknown to the law. If he thought it would be effectual
for its deelared object he might still support it; but hie
opinion was, that it world only aggravate the evils it pro-
fessed to cure. The system of landlordism in Ireland was
the cause of all the distresses and crimes in that country. A
great deal was said about the landlords' rights. Had the
hones no respect for the rights of labour ? Landlords'
rights were, in many cases, the .right Of robbery,
instead of those of justice. He called auclf rights
landlords' wrongs, and he protested, therefore, against their
enforcement. Was the tenant to be turned out to die
without any chance of redress, and another landlord to
be protected in every act of oppression ? If a tenant owed
ten years' rent, there must have been some oppression
(Laughter.) It was impossible otherwise to account for
nab a state of things. If there were a coercive law to pre-
vent the taking of the lives of laredlords, there should be one
to prevent the tale( of thou of tenants. He had formerly
proposed a bill empowering the Lord-Lieutenant to prevent
clearances from being effected until some provision had been
made for those who were to be ejected. He would ask her
Majesty's government whether they were now prepared to
sanction such a measure ? He would not then go into de-
tells in reference to his landlord and tenant bill. The object
of that bill would be simply to establish all over Ireland the
tame system as existed in Ulster. The vagrant law passed
after the Poor Law Bill was leading to the greatest *pp m
sloe es regarded the poor, and in that reaped_ legW_azioe
was needed. He did not contend that a kndlord and
tenant hall alone would prove a remedy her the
mkt of Ireland. Many concurrent measures were
seeded, amongst which wire a waste lands bill: and a hill
be facilitating the gale of ensambered estates. (Hear, hear.)
Mad all the coercion bilk which had best pawed been
effectual to prevent those seemelastigne? It was a power
which would act beneficially only amengusaLesple who bad
a respect kr the law. ft wee net his in to give any
*sous offenders to the bill, and if it was pima the go. I
menment meet take the respondbility on thmegivos.
lir. MOORE totally dimpled with all then gentionme
whe asmensd their determinants to mow aid sagasinse her
tho supgrmaim of undoubted Mom viand the introduce
den if ammwes for the remedy of undoubted evil.
He Monk' Meier to the pmennont his cordial
affport in carrying out that tardy act of ju-
in wblih they had at last brought forward.
CMS. HARRIS admitted that Se majority of the memo-
is okra of Inland-bad *MY 4111111 *heir duty, and be woad
mom bays referred te what the Ma. gentleman had hem
town abooreneas is seem kwinstmes, it than ahem-
eatkowbed sat been attended with the most Mal Iseult*.
(Nam) lima with that view he bad pat the Bones an the
paper whislitsteed in hisname, but, in oceessenence of the state-
meat lesde by the right hon. hart. opposite (Sir G. Grey) at
Mob of the evenly!, *MIL OM ease at least, the
Led sedwg gosh evidence as
well kW the law le km wormgr deneenters from the
altar, he amid withdraw that
After akw remarks by Sir W. 1111131 BR, who spoke
amidst benannel MY he • airings,
The home dinied—For the osseed reading 296
Spinet it