The Express.
London, England, 1849-02-08 00:00:00

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OLIN* el the marking of that system whisk hie
um
fa the very Men he bed rend ? Tie Lai wan
mew ; the Swain were beggars ; and there wee le pew
pest of the mom being resew= fret the owe's, ha the, '
az from the Meant fermens. Hubs seen statesmanlike 141111 W
wet taus, and ea attempt mode to grapple at one, with the
dilbseldes they had to mesember.all mast be swept away he
Ibis swam a ran. The roman of the country were se&
deal to meet all the difileakka There were various woe
I. which winner could be made. Then was the enema&
of railway. ; there was the eandea of the arterial da
If attem*n were paid to such matters as these there s:otlit
suable= opportunities to esierange the outlay of messy
without any ewes* to this coestry, and in this way alone
could the people of Ireland be saved
Sir J. WALSH did net think that he was ever called upon
to give a vote whisk involved him is conaiduadons of
greater pain and difficulty than the present. The right hon.
ffodleidla had am* appealed to the humanity of the
seas • he had drawn a picture of the appalliag distress
which'waa now over so large a ponies of Inlaid, and
the cosolution, therefore, was that aosetbing approechieg
one quarter of Inland at this mama was involved
in absolute rain. (Hear.) It was doubly imperative
on members carefully to 'satin= any proposition of
the kind proposed, and to see whether they were Ju-
lia= la applyiag the public and =mend resources
Ile the subject. Had the experience of met grants given us
soy reasonable tisanes of expecting that the appropriation
of the lama grant would be either saes In itself or bone-
Meld te the isountry ? The eight minim which was so
voted by the House of Cam. two sgo
rias=a, perhaps, exalted little gratitude la bat
it bed suited Hide gratitude beams ft was applied la
men which maned as benefit Snide Sae seenarke
walk yea ben relieved, and yea find they see ill
yea had that the whole of moiety has been disorg=7-
peadaithet works havebeee watered over tkomentry whisk
hem bean an injury, sad net • benefit, beams am*
were ever esespleted, aid yea Bad that the seem" to
saddled with a debt which remains • hide, Mama-
brews Wee there say peadble hope, any pore& ex-
pectably Bat by the mum now being pursued, they
weal revive the Weary sr develop tam assereue
which were ehegether paired and dormant The boa.
samba ftw=tirthee se feepently eddread Ike lime
as the wet nommes of the eseintry, bed failed
totally impala . IS wee poodle Ikea. nabs. the
cralas spetamet pea taw, time reseeesee lead be
ew% Wbafweee nelabt be bk patens 11161111114.14 se
bog a this WeyietM mintinned they were sitegethse rembeene
and mthigede. heir the pee of the poor law there
was a coons= tax. What was the state of Ireland at pre-
sent with respect to the poor law ? It was very curious that
at this time, throughout that country, there were
two poor laws in operation. There was the poor
law of 1838 and the poor law of 1847. It was a
fault of the legislature, that, adhering, as it appeared to do,
to the provisions of the first law of 1838 as the groundwork of
its legislation, not venturing to repeal or abrogate that law,
it introduced by the law of 1847 a power virtual) y to sat that
of 1838 entirely aside, and that it vested the initiative in the
hands and the arbitrary power of a body of conindsdonere
who were deputed to carry into effect the law of applying the
system of out door relief to certain unions. What had been
the result of this system ? The result had been exhibited
in the returns which formed part of the appendix in
the report,—that in 23 unions of Ulster no out-door
relief was at present at all required. Seven unions in Mun-
ster were excepted from out door relief, and three in Lain-
star. Outdoor relief was established throughout Cm-
naught. In • great portion of many of the provisos the
system had obtained to a very limited extent It was very
important, in watching the working of this poor law, to se-
certain what effects it had produced where it bad been in
full operation. The poor law of 1838 had only been pushed
to its full tenet, it had only borne its legitimate bulb in
those provinces of Ulster in which it wee almost in universal
operation. That was the answer to those gentlemen who were
so fond of drawing general average.. It was said that the poor
rate had not exceeded the poor rate in England.
It was a mistake to draw a parallel between England
and Ireland. (Hear.) The mischief and misfortune of
the operation of all these poor laws, when they pawed
those bounds in which it was possible to struggle against and
to counteract them by industry and enterprise was that the
evil VOA constantly increasing. When the Chancellor of the
Exchequer proposed what he must consider as a miserable
palliative for so vast an evil, he told him at ones that his
remedy was utterly disproportionate to the evil ; that he
would not for one moment admit that it was applying any-
thing like a Gen f= it. He would ask whether, supposing the
house were to be disposed to meat the views of the right
hm-
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, sad to grant this assistance
as a temporary expedient, there was any indication of an
intention on his part to make use of that which
might be thus afforded in order to render the
permanent application of this temporary expedient owes-
lay in future ? What was their intention with respect
to the poor law ? In answer to the vary home question of the
member for Northaraptonthini,he had afforded us some index
of what wen the views of the goverment ; end as he (Sir J.
Walsh) understood him, the views of the government were
to adhere, is all its main provisions, to poor-law as it
at present existed. He was convinced that anises great modi-
fications were introduced into the mode of working, sides
the house set about vigorous) y to remedy former mistakes,the
affect of the poor law would be to papezies the while of
Ireland. If • charge was to be made upon waste la le. sad if
that charge was to remain a burthen, should seem
afterwards be enterprising enough to cultivate Cason,
not see how ever they were to expect any peemsaent im-
provement in Ireland. How mould land be otherwise than
111 arrest if you were constantly making rates where there
were no crepe, and allowing these rates to accumulate on the
head of the unfortunate future cultivator ? (Hear, hear.)
The more these rake were allowed to go on, the more pres-
sure must be consequently thrown on these few more fa-
voured spots, those better secured landlords and tenants
who were still able to struggle on, and it was quite evident
that these latter must eventually share in the common ruin.
The real object of the grant salted for by the right hon. gan.
tleman was neither more nor lees than a grant to bol-
ster up a vicious system, to enable them to drag on a system
which contained within itself the seeds of its own &Prue-
lion, bat which was, in the first place, sure to destroy alto-
gether the unhappy country. (Hear, hear.) Nor
would the miserable pittance they were now pro-
posing prevent it. His objection was not as to Its
amount, although he felt that England had already been
fearfully taxed for the same purpose ; but he felt confident
that the only effect of granting more money would be tem-
porarily to bolster up a system which must ultimately ruin
the country for wham permanent benefit it was intended. Oa
the other hand, if even a large grant of money were madethe
foundation of a new and better system, he for one should not
op s it, uhe felt that it would not only be sound national
icy but a wise economy to put affairs in Ireland on a ton-
sil/41re= front that In which they stood at present.
E. HOWARD owned that it was with great
regret that he had heard that hon. member, who hi pre-
sumed was also expressing the opinion of the influential
party with which he was connected, state that in hie
opinion the small vote asked for by the Clan-
es,lor of the Exchequer, should not be granted.
He reignited that when a moderate mat of money like
the present was asked for, for the relief of what he sup-
posed all would admit to be urgent distzesa, anything like a
strong objection should be offered to it by any party in the
House or Commons. (Hear, hear.). Hon. numbers
Ind alluded to the state of the poor in England, to the
filling of the workhouses and the pole. Bat that was
not to shut out sympathy for the people of Ireland, and
when the deep distress of that people was made known he
dould not feel jostled in refusing the inomidderable peat
now asked for. During the tut three years they had seen
in Ireland stanation,funine, disease, sad the most palling,
hardships, bat they bad also seen quiet and resignation
more than
;Z411=4400, mightisao. t Tmstantheturalpeoythaplhaecovieaslberilanendadexhadvi: ce:terdemainedosander
re-
bellion ; but he felt that it was not in the nature
of things that a people could continue to suffer
patiently 'Minions such as, within the last two or
three years, tad visited the people of Ireland. (Hear, beer.)
He was not going to trouble the house with any details, nor
to enter into the arguments on, or opinions of hon.
swab= from Ireland, each of which differed from the
odor ; be *sad not fish in sock troubled waters, but
SWUM ism tban to themselves—(a laugh) ; but it seemed
to him that all parties were unjustly throwing blame num
the goveranama Some said they were giving too much,
some to ads, amisuanes ; but be would bes to remind km.
emeabses wbe endeaveand to throw this Name upon the
govammase lag wale they (,the government) had proposed
Ilia tampaney relief, they had also taken the !lemesary
asps fa ea kentediate investigation into the worklifs'ethe
pea Lam a
thatuntil what was really the and
peeper gam bed been determined upon by the it
was their lissades duty to alleviate present suffering
by granting sem temporary relief. But let it not be
supposed task beam he advocated relief, his was anxious
to Missal idleness. He knew that if Ireland
had emfilAai g[ dares, she had also exhibited great
hasCglhl had been wasted and misapplied, and the
bodies& bad had much to do with its misapplication. They
ha been extravagant and had much to answer for. (Hear,
him.) Bat tbb much he was prepared to say, that, in the
awe of the landlords of the present day, he would not visit
the sin of **fathers uponthe children.
lir. RUNE said the noble lord was no doubt
united by the most humane motives in I thus des-
Hume)the misery of the Irish people, and he (Mr.
Hume) admitted that those miliaria were great, but
the question which the home had to consider was, would
the principle upon which the proposed grant was Used be
calculated to prove the Condition of Ireland. (Hen
That was the real quieten. (Hear, hear.
Re bed heard with peas regret the eat pert of
the noble lard's speech, because in it he told
the house, that if they did not give the Iride
money they would rebel. (A laugh.) Could the haws
in forget that 1847 they had made a grant of MISR millions
to the Irish, and that in 1848 they rebelled ? (Cheers, and
No, no," hem the Irish mambas.) It would appear that
snow of money were caseated to imams milt, di.
reedy contrary to than an by tie able lord. He
(ler. Home) did not blame disadlorde ummally. On
See senteszy, he pitied them, es being drives into their pro-
ems peaks by the miegovernmaat of pat ages, ea he
did net Mink it eider Beano or jest to Via am la
nue dap el eelemi with tae)vils whisk bad beat maw/
in pea
_dews. (Kea, hem Es admitted the alb
of Uelend, bat
isl= he asked. =-
vases of mug ell woad Ns
epos their removal _ 4
ritter, how.) Let them not
• neleibmbr einatey, where, wi Ar:riestes-
time, the peak mosey was ed "made ire ,
rti
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