The Express.
London, England, 1847-05-01 00:00:00

THE RECORDER OF WINCHESTER.

Mr. B. ESCOTT had seen a paragraph in the Tines,
stating that the late recorder for Winchester having resigned
his office, and his successor not having been appointed, the
trials of the prisoners which should have taken place at
Easter, had been indefinitely postponed. Ho wished, there-
fore, to ask the right hon. gentleman, the Secretary for the
Home Department, whether a recorder had been appointed,
and whether he was aware of any means of remedying the
inconvenience and injustice done to the prisoners ?
Sir G. GREY had not been aware that any inconvenience
had taken place ; but the appointment hed now been made.
FACTORY LEGISLATION.
_ _

Sir W. JAMES said the factory inspectors had specified
three points which des, rved the attention of the goyernment,
namely--the education at furry children ; the entemion of
the act to silk-mills ; and the eating and guarding of the
machinery. The right hon. baronet the Secretary of State
for the Home Department had stated on a former evening
that he 'intended to introduce a kill with reference t i the
first and last of these points, and he 'Louid now be glad to
know whether it was the intention of the government to do
so this session ?

Sir G. GREY said there was a practical difficulty as to the
education of the factory children, which he proposed to re-
move by a bdl; and with regard to the casing of mach:nery,
it was not easy to define the kaid of machinery which should
be thus guarded, and further reference must be made to the
inspectors on the subject. He, however, hoped to be able to
introduce a bill in two or three weeks.
POOR-LAW AMENDMENT.

Mr. FERRAND expreverl his surprise that the govern-
ment had not brought in their new poor-law bill yet, and
inquired when they intended to do so ?
Sir G. GREY said he hoped to be able to introduce the
bill, which was prepared, on Monday evening, and a govern-
ment night would then be lixod fir the second reading.
RAILWAYS, PIERS AND HARBOURS (IRELAND).
Lord J. RUSSELL having moved the order of the day
that the house should go into committee of supply for the
erant of a sum of mousy in aid of certain railways in
Ireland,
Mr. ROEBUCK maid he had an arnendment to propose;
and although he might subj, et himself to the imputation of
being in the habit of casitling at everything--(hear, hear,
and laughter)—he was Pure that he wee about to de that
which the people would think right and just, and which the
exigencies .f she country demanded. The Chancellor of
the Exchequer asked the house to go into a committee of
supply, to do that which he and other members of the
g. cerement had said was highly inimical to the best in-
terests of the country, when the noble lord, the member
for Lynn, proposed to ask for 16,000.0001., of which
4,000,0001. were to be granted the first year for Irish
railways. After 8,000,0001. had already been voted for
Ireland, they were to be called on to advance 6M,0001. more.
He would read what the right hon. gentleman said on the oc-
casion he referred to. [The bon. and learned member here
proceeded to read an extract from Hammed, hut was stopped
by cries of " Order," and reminded by the Speaker that he
was quoting from a debate during the present minion].
The right hon. gentleman might hare said that to advance
money for such a purpose would be calling upon the
government to become • money lender, and to exercise
functions which no government ought to undertake; that if
the government dealt in money-leading, they would go into
the market unfairly armed with the public money against
private persons, and other objections of a similar character
might then have been urged by the right hon. gentleman.
The bill of the noble lord was thrown out, in consequence of
the opposition of the right hon. gentleman and the noble
lord at the head of the government, The extent of the noble
lord's measure recommended it; it was not a peddling, pitiful
measure ; but a very bold plan, whilst the proposition before
the house had nothing of that character to recommend it.
When the noble lord brought forward his measure, there wax
no alarm existing in the country, but at this moment had
not all the great commercial firms taken means to allay the
terror, alarm, and danger which existed ? Was not
the government in almost daily communication with
large houses in Liverpool and Glasgow, and with the Bank
of England? Had not, in fact, every means been taken to
restore oonfidenae ? and, notwithstanding this, an additional
burthen was to be put upon the mental ; the very same ar-
guments being used to justify it which were employed to put
down the measure of the 0,.b1e lord. (Hear, hear.) The
right hon. geatleman said that there was a railway company
In Ireland that would employ fifteen thousand men, if the
government were disposed to advance them the sum pro-
posed, and at • rate of interest for which they could not bor.
row it anywhere else. Why, the right hon. gentleman,
is repudiating the proposition of the noble lord the member
for Lynn, to employ the starring Irish on railways, said the
government wanted to relieve the poor, the aged, the infirm,
the women an children—those, in tact, who could not be
employed, and yet he now came forward with this extraor-
dinary proposition, with commercial convulsion (caused
chiefly by the permute wising front the government having
gone into the market and become large buyers, as well as
their lavish Expenditure to tho Irish), with commercial con-
vulsion and hideous 1 aukraptcy at the very door. (Hear,
hear.) He should more at an amendment " That the other
I orders of the day be now read."

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
proper course for the hon. and teamed gentleman would
have been to have waited until the house had resolved Neff
into committee. It would then have been his duty t have
made a statement, and the hon. and learned gentleman might
then have made his speech. He hoped, therefore, the bow.,
would go into committee so that they might wry on their
proceedin,re with that rule and order which had so long been
established—(2w. bear)—and he should decline laving
anything on the sableet until the house had resolved iteW
linto committee. (11w, hear.)
After a short pause, no hon. gentleman having risen,
strangers were ordered to withd"aw, and
The house divided—For the original motion 253
For the amendment lf-189
Mr. HUME begged, before the Speaker left the chair, to
exprees his great surprise at the division which had just
taken place—(laughter)—and that so many members of the
House of Commons were prepared to vote away the public
money at the present time. (Hoar, hear.) His opinion was
that the time for raising the debate was before going into
committee, and that those who voted for going into ecm-
mitto.e stood pledged to vote the money for Irish railways.
(" ?so, no.") That was his opinion. The only question to
be dismissed in committee related to the amount of mosey
that was to he given, and those who voted in the majority
would stultify themselves by voting against the grant.
The house then resolved otstif into a committee.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
though he had made a short statement on this subject to the
home laefore. yet it was at so late an hour, and no much mis-
apprehension scorned to prevail respecting it, he thought it
right to inform the house on what grounds the present pro-
position was made. It was clear from what passed during
the former debate, that the monetary state of the country,
and the propriety of vntir.g a sum sf money to assist certain
specific railways in Ireland—suhjects distance though not
unconnected with each other—would form the subject of dim
cuation. With regard to the mouetary position ot the ceen-
try, he bed on the former occesion an opportunity of core et-
ing some misapprehensions which were entertained as
to the state of facto, and as to the conduct of the go-
vernment. The present depression in the money-
market was not owing to the Banking Act )as
was understood), but to the neglect of the principle on
which that act was pasted ; and the alarm which had pre-
vailed in the city for some days was, in his opinion, utterly
and altogether without found o ion, at least to the degree to
which it prevailed. He did not mean to say that extreme
prudence and cannon were not r. quired, net only ea the part
of the Bank of England, bat on the part of all ether basket
but the extent of the alarm was so greet, that it was cake-
leted to produce in itself the evil a hick it was designed to
obviate. Since the last published accounts, the state of the
Rank of England was materially improved. The condition
of the Bank on the 24th April, as compared with what it
seas on the 17th, was materially improved. Its liabilities
were diminished, and the means of meeting them had in-
creased. He had a commulf cation that morning from
the governor of the Bank of England. stating that
since Saturday last its condition was materially im-
proved. (Hear, hear.) It was, therefore, enabled, on two
aepaAte occasions in last week, to give increased facile:es to
the money market, and the deputations which he saw re-
°state of things in the north of
l i
England thelt muchr
mere satisfied than they did three days
ago. Many pennons who represented to him the alum wh cla
prevailed, said that there were more beck notes in circula-
tion than was necessary; that more bills were d'ocounted
than they thought desirable; and he believed that if the
pressure had been more gradual and not so sudden, the pre-
sent pressure. even if greater than it actually wet' would not
he no sensibly felt. But in consequence of the efforts of the
Bank of England, he believed that the extreme preside*
might be said to he removed. He need only allude to the
increased price of stock. This might be owing to the cir-
cumstance of the unforeseen intelligence which had been
received in the City to-day, the truth of which there seemed
to be little reason to doubt. But besides this, the exchauges of
the whole of Barope were in our favour, and the last amounts
from America were of a more favourable character, and by the
accounts received, the demand for gold from America was
likely to be less than was anticipated. He was anxious to
say this much .for the purpose of removing that state of
alarm and dread which, of itself, was more disastrous than
any real pressure could be. (Hear. hear.) Ile would now
turn to the proposition for malting advances to assist certain
Irish rsilwayo, with respect to which considerable misappre-
hension was entertained. In the first place, it was not in-
tended to issue exchequer bills or to raise a new loan foe
this purpose. (Hear, bear.) Hon. gentlemen would .e-
-member that he seated, when propming to discontinuotbe
system of public works it Ireland and to diatrieute to-el
instead, the opinion of the government as to the expeelie• it,
of fostering private enterprises, by which employment wou.d
be afforded to the people, but not so much with a
view of affording relief as fur bridging over that state
of transition through which the people of Ireland
had to pass. Two bills bad been introduced fur this pur-
pose—one for the improvement of landed property, fur which .
1,000,0001. wan voted; the other, fur the recLanation OK
waste lauds, for which it was proposed to vote another
1,000.0001. The result of thew two measures was, that
2,800,000 t. were to he des ott d to the employment of persons
in Ireland by private enterprise. Ile stated, also, whet
proposing the vote of 8,00,0001., that a portion of that
amount would be applied in adsances of the sine descrip-
tion ; for he had never stated that the whole was to be ap-
plied to relief work., or in giving feed. Having stated them
thiegs, he was at a loss to understand how may persou coml.!
have thought that he was obliged to issue additional exche-
quer bills, or to raise an additional loan. (Hear. hear.)
From all that had been said in the various debates,
relating to Ireland, her Majetty'a government came to the
conclusion that, of the two measure., the most important
was that for improving the laneeel property of Ireland.
And, sceording:y, before the bill left the house, the sem
proposed to be grated was raised from 1,000,0301 t
1,600,0001., leaving only 500,0001. available for the neaten t-
tion of waste leads. In the course of these discussions also,
they found a great diflere tee of opinion as to the el ram es
to be expected under the Waste Lands Improvement Bill.
It was at lint intended that the big should be compulsory,
but as there was great objection to that, they determine:. to
abandon the compulsory nature of the bill. In ahandoreng
its compulsory nature they, at the same time, abandontel
that which rendered the =mere most available for practical
purposes, and after many attempts to give the bill a practi-
cal shape, it was found impossilde, leaving it voluntary and
optional, and not obligatory, to bring it into operation in
the course of this year. The government, therefore, elem.
doned the intention of passing this bill through parliament
in the present ashen. (" Hear, hear," from Sir T.. Peel.)
The result then was, that the stem of 003,0001., which was
to he appropriated to this purpose, wee released, and beeanto
available for other purpens, either for relief work, or :or
advances toward. any other private enterprises in Ireland.
With regard to the relief works. they had been discontinued
as rapidly as possible. In Match there were 731,00') pere",ll,l
employed on these works. Towards the ead of that month
a reduction of 20 per cent. was effected without difficulty,
bringing down the numbers employed to 579,003. On the
24th of this noonth a further reduction took place,
and by the reduction which was to take place on
the hat of May the numbers would be reduced to
280,000. He was !lad to be able to iuform the boars
that persons who had hitherto been dischse-gad from the
public works were übtozbed in prie ate employment, and
' that only the mall sum of 2.0001. had been advanced to the
relief committees out of the loan that had been made. (Hear,
hear.) Of course this would not go on throughout tl.o
summer, became this was seed time, and more employment
was given than at any other period. Strange as it might ao-
pear, a much larger breadth of land was laid down iu wheat,
in spring crops, and green crops than usual in Ireland ; and
in the east and throughout the south and southwest of
Ireland the ordinary quantity of potatoes has been planted—
! (much laughter)--and lu some parts of Ireland not only
did there appear to be a ndlicient quantity of seed peeves
I but they appeared :main as an article of consumption. (In-
creased laughter.) To return, however, to the relief works.
It was proposed to discontinue them with some exceptions.
There were many works in an unfinished state, which it
would be necessary to finish, and many of these were of an
importatt and beneficial character. The report of one to.
the government officers in the county Cork stated, that the
works were not only beautifully execute 01, but of great la.
pirtance, and would advance the civilisation of the district
thirty years. There was another account of the same de-
scription respecting works executed near Teske, in the
county of Kerry. In the wilder parts of the country these
works were most beneficial, and it was in such places that
they would be continued. They proposed, however, to c :re-
tinue them as ordinary works, and not as relief works, to be
paid for according to the work done. They would thus get
rid of that vicious system in which wages and relief were so
mixed up, that it was impossible for the one or the other to
be properly regulated. Butthere were other parts of the coo n-
try in which public works could not so readily be formed.
The lines of railway to which they proposed to make the
advances were at that peculiar character, that it would he
advisable to make advances to teem. lion. gentdemeu must
remember that the line to which the larger portion of the
advance was to be made was the great trunk lane of Ireland,
commanicating between Dublin and Limerick, and Cork.
It was a line which had been treated on former oceasiens
with considerable foveae by the government. When the
proposition for a lout was made to the right hon. baronet
oppoete by the railway company, he stated that wine a
pottiest of the line was so for completed as to become pro-
ductive, thereby offering sufficient security for any advance,
such a proposition would probably be favourably rice ivezi by
the Treasury.. Last year, it was true, the railway company
did apply for 500.000 t. to enable them to proceed with the tine.
They were referred to the Exchequer Bill LoanCOMMillii rt-
./m..6n said that they were, at that time, ins condition to offer
only 230,0001. The company declined to accept the offer on the
terms proposed, became they said they could raise the money
in the market at a lower rate of interest than the govern-
ment proposed. (" Hear, hear," from Mr. Roebuck.)
He did not state this for the purpose of intimating his dis-
approbation of the course which had been pursued • and ho
must say, that an advance for the rupees of constructing a
line of that description was not like an advance to railroads
in all parts of Ireland. The fact, that a portion of
this hue was already constructed, afforded a perfect
security for the whole of the advance. (Hear, hear.)
itOimon,:seedprap,ilicatitoyowrneerber.erreidne.ed
imiddietbot,deeebal liireach
Attuo6YrkeasesthLoaneuPsrtheCi;osatm.w.:is-::
with any other, and to report to the treasury if they had not
money enough to enable them to make the advance, sop.
posing on other grounds they should be eneteed to make it.
The Public Works Loan Commissioners reported that they
considered the undertaking one which ought to be promoted,
that they thought the scent ity was ample, and that Co, y
should be inclined to make a loan themselves if they had
sufficient funds at their disposal. They added, however,
that as the sum allotted to them by parliament for the pur-
pose of making these advances in the present year was already
appropriated, it wield be isnpossible for them to make the
advance unless additional funds were intrusted to them ;
and here again he mug be permitted to say that there w4f
acme little difference hetween the government being a great
money lender, and the placing an additional sum at the dis-
posal of the Exchequer Loan Commissioners. Now the