The Express.
London, England, 1851-12-05 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 5, 1851.

Manchester and Salford. Me held in his hand a petition to
parliament in favour of the bill, signed bye great number of
the rate-payers, with their respective assessments annexed.
The aggregate number of signatures was 33,833, and the
total assessments in both boroughs 83,248. The disqualifi-
cations of various kinds, including the female rate-payers,
amounted altogether to 18,000, leaving the total number of
persons actually assessed and capable of signing, 87,233.
They had, therefore, at the present moment, an absolute
majority of signatures of the whole number of rate-payers
within the two boroughs, including those in the adjacent
townships of Broughton and Pendleton, who were intended
to be brought within the operation of the bill.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL asked if the municipal were the
same u the parliamentary boundaries in Manchester and
Salford?

The Rev. Canon CLIFTON said, the parliamentary
boundaries included Broughton and Pendleton, but the
municipal did not.
Mr. ENTWISLE resumed. The number of refusals with
which their canvassers fur signatures had met was 9,615,
leaving uncanvassed at the prevent time, 23,735. lie would
also add, that in the two borought they had school accom-
modation already existing fur about 66,000 scholars, and
the total number of children within the two municipal
boundaries was estimated at about 62,000, between the
school ages of 4 and 14. He might further state that a
meeting convened in the Free Trade Hall, in Manchester,
ou Tuesday night, :and attended by 5,000 persons, unani-
mously affirmed the principles of their bill. Ile would now
lay the bill before his lordship, hoping to obtain for it such
a measure of countenance and support as his lordship should
feel it his duty to award.
Lent J. RUSSELL—The bill, supposing there is • de-
ficiency in the number of schools in a particular district,
contemplates that the rate shall be applied to open new
schools, which would be free schools without any payment.
Mr. ;FLETCHER—Yes, supposing that any religious
denomination undertake to build the schools ; not other-
wise. So that this bill does not interfere with voluntary
effort; it merely supplements it
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—With regard to the principle
of having a rate for the purpose of education, I think that
such a rate will be a very useful and advantageous thing,
provided you successfully get over the difficulties that all
payers of the rate, who Sr. the inhabitants generally, are ad-
mitted to the benefits which are to be derived from the pay-
ment of that rate, and that no persons are ex-
cluded by their religious convictions from having some
benefit or advantage, if they chose to take it,
from the rate which they pay. The second
question— whether you will successfully get over
this difficulty depends first on the provisions of your bill,
and next on the opinions and feelings which prevail in
Manchester; and therefore I do not feel myself quite com-
petent to give any decisive opinion on it, but I should like
to ask a question or two on the subject. Now, with regard
to the minutes of council, it is very clear that they make
provision for persons of all religious denominations, and
therefore, so long as you are supporting schools that are so
recognised, I think your course will be easy. With regard
to new schools, by providing that no distinctive creed or
catechism shall be taught, you remove any difficulty, I con-
ceive, that protestant dissenters would have in supporting
such a system. But then comes the Roman catholic dis-
seaters, who object, not only to any creed or catechism, but
to the reading of lessons from the authorised version of the
Scriptures. 1 want to know what answer you have to give
to that ?
Mr. ENTWISLE said their proposition amounted to
this that the schools already admissible under the minutes
of council should come under the rate. They were quite
aware that in those schools to be built, in case of deficiency,
out of the rates, by the terms which they had necessarily
laid down, the Roman eatholics would hold themselves
excluded by the circumstance of lessons being read from the
authorised version of the Scriptures. That had already
been made a ground of objection ; but the Roman Catholics
had refused to allow their own Douay version of the Scrip-
tures to be read in the schools, when the offer was made to
them in addition to the authorised version. The only way,
therefore, in which the promoters could hope to meet the
views of the Roman eatholics would be to have no provision
fur religious teaching at all.
The Rev. Canon CLIFTON—And that would even ex-
clude them, for they would not coaseut to instruction with-
out religion.
After some further conversation,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said I am obliged to you for the
explanation you have given me. I don't know whether
there is any specific question you wish to ask me, but I
will undertake to consider the bill, and after that to com-
municate with you.
The deputation then withdrew.