The Express.
London, England, 1849-07-07 00:00:00

1e.420,0001. (Cheers and laughter) I beg pardon—the
Mal sari pm 'Rennin of the empty,. is the three years w
102,0001, e bile the total aggregate vinous% of the ezperta
was 13,000,0.101. The yearly e impatiens ls, ea the averuire.
4,420,0.101. of brass sad amps, goods exported. sad 34 0001.
imported. (Hear, hear.) Well, sow, whet do foreigners
think of us when we are denouncing thus. unfortneee s—
(lieghter)—who with not half our skill, half oar capital,
hall our niams4cturne inv.atiome, are Nadine as In the
Name of a year 34,0001. worth of goods—what will they
Sick, I male ed oar desermateart theta as iatellopere and is-
Weems with their inolus.ry—(leaghter)—erlieu they hear
that we hove at the same time ao scruple ia wading oat to
them 4.420,0001. growth et goads, thereby rarefying thole in-
dustry and ismer!. rbur with their eimaretie manuface
tares ? (Much laughter.) What • arospieg, *meeting
people must Orr think le! (Renewed taught r) Now
will you tell me how it is possible that the tariffs, the free
Import of raw materiels, end such an impel' of se inufatmared
goods as %no which I have dean tete—will you tell me
tow Ois p eeble that th n.anutactunne distress of this
country can ;oily b.• attributed to chine a mole in tee tariff
either in the yews 1842, 1645, or 1846 ? (Hear, hear.) That,
a,, is my sneer? to that part of toe 'pet cb of the bon.
gestiman which attributes the teistorteee of thiseountry to
eggeheing a•teispcd to emend by freeimports with hostile
swigs. (Omen.) I come now to the sec tad ground upon
which the hon. geieleman his impeach. d oar commercial
policy. The hon gentle man—l am sow *peaking of the 11. M.
member fur Bueeingh melt re (Mr. Dereeh)—(laughu r)—
I will, with the hue Routh mia's mrsaivion. confine =yeah
exclusively to his argument, without being diverted from it
by the argument rut ail other hon, genie man. I will take
kis see md argument, and will quree reedy the tam.
sloes in which it was put. The hon. gentleman
aid: I think that the averse* elfin .1 value
of the exports in the yean 1845 and 1846 was
133,000,0001 ; that the •eersete of the declared Talus in
those two years was 69 500,0001.; the., in 1848, the oR 4al
vale*, which signal-a quantize,. did nut tall short of the
official value in 1815 art 1940, bat that the declared value
in 1843 tell off to the t :tout 0(6,600,0001.. amounting only to
63,000,0001, from which the hon gentleman draws this in.
terve., that the working closes received in 1848,6,600.0001
less than they had rice., d b. fere. Then he instituted a
compariom between tom menthe of the year 1849 and
four months of the year 1848. The honourable gen-
tleman said, "Then is a depreciation of cotton weeds
exported, comparing 1849 with 1848, to the amount of
646,0001.; thereto,' the workout has been oblioed
to receive for his lab ear 648,0001. lees than be did last year."
Now I totally deny the Currie new of the inference taus
drawn. (Hear.) I deny that, biome there was a falafel;
off in the de bard value of the exports in 1848, as compared
with the average of 1815 ad 1816, to toe amount of '
6,500,0001—1 totally de.iy that therefore the working
classes roaeiv.d in 1848, 6,500,0001. lass for their labour.
("Hear, hear." and eh eis.) It would be eselanchay
indeed, if that wire the ewe. Hy cousol •tion it, that no-
thing of the kiwi is the feet. (Hear, hear ) Now Hot let ate
observe that letting can be more (slime as than any infe-
rence drawn from the felling off in the declared value of our
zpanufaetures. Let ate remark that all the arguments based'
on the official value are, from the wry in which the ICOUrite
are prepare! (the hon. wentleciaa kuows this as well as any
one), es voliegly fdtsc.ous. (Hear, bone.) Take the cotton
value. The (tacit value is, in that eds., an age/regd.,
of quantity. It hes nu reference to quality ; yet the
quality of the pools ezp.,rted will make the utmost differ-
enee in n sent of tee real value. If you argue that because
the declared value of the manufactures of this country at a
given time has fallen short of the tied .red value at another
time, there has keen a tailing of in the Rental value, I will
prove to you this this country ought to hove been 'oho doer
completely and utterly ruined. ('• Hear, hear," and
laughter.) It would be a sees; remarkable consequence if,
when you redeem tom price, of food, when you
introduc- m.ebi ery end friars the mice of raw material,
sot of cotton only, but of all thaw- hrtieia• which eater into
seanufarturv—it would he a w et wonderful thing if there
were not a falling off in the deleted value. (' hear, hear,"
and laughter.) Tee hon. gentlemm was not is poliameat
at en early pedal of te• e. n'ro,ersy which trots open this
Feet. (I. -tighter.) Tee hen. g edemas said, at the coo-
elusion of his very ab a epeech,qauti. g, if I neallect rightly,
from Cicero, ";lane quid.= sieve content =mho @brims
morftur." Now, I went to show you that tole is an old die-
esee. (On at laugher.) I want to pro.* to you Oita it r
• diem* which has at tamer periods afflicted this colliery,
and that, too, under a more itegftvated heat than it dues
at present. (Coro inued Laughter.) The d etrine which in-
fested the Wei Alderman Waitlimen, and which he eanied
with bill to hie grave, was that, there having been a vast
diminution IN the drier. d vine of articles of export, the
country was rapidly consuming its 'smth i and ap-
proaching /vine tun. (8 outs of laughter.) This was
the argument of Al enema Waltham. lie said,
"The goy, rnmeet forgot 'bat every breach of our trade
was the child of protection; the country was stru.glitg
with difficultiv ; there were three sillies* of quarters o:
cons and two millings in the eilk manufacture iropor.ed into
this eeuntry, and if we were veered that the money for all
this would come be k Main, kw could 1.11 the house that to
such thing would be the rite for, whatevt r we might im-
port, our exports would ne be found to i .eareeee in tense -
queneee' "In tho e or. • of the lasel2y. ay- there had,"he said.
been a lose of 120,000,0001. is: the export trade." (Laughter.)
He proved it by MOILS of a paper which I hold in
my hand, and which shows how gievoes the disorder was
at that time. ( L inahter.) He to •k the :ports. Now, oh-
verve, thi. was in the tem of protection, before the house in-
terfered with any of the e:.rr sot British Inameactures-oho
took the eaporia from 1811 to 1828, and compared
the official, or de limed value, with the real value.
He divided the t are t. between two periods—
the firm extendi g fr m I'll to 18e0, and the second
hem 18/0 to 1828 In he thee peeked the exam of official,
or dilute), ova r real vale . was, he ralculated,4l,s2o,oool ;
is the second poitel the ex e •of official, or declartd, over
real wt., was ti. 3.210,0001 ; and he drew this conclusion,
that the total eta tent f deprecietis in the value of the
articles 04.121.700,0001 Le said the deer. elation of value i
was 28,000,0001.. n 40,1100 0001., or GO pi r edit ; the country
was there( tee. la his up:iiion, b. leg ruined. (L tughter.)
It was any ing on a sent disadvantagestis trade—a few
yews only entold 'legs • stare it would be overwhelmed
in bankruptcy and raja. (Great laughter.) That was Ai
dorms* Weidman 's argument. Now, aloes not this suggest
• doubt shadier the has. gentleman's (Mr. Disraeli's) ar.ru.
mem be tight? (Latiehter.) I admit that the two periods
win many via eta very different. (Hear, hoer.) list,
still, what have we b es labouring to d.. ? To redoes the
pekoe, sot of comas merely. bat of palm oil and of every-
gibni which enters Otto manufactures. What fa the natural
melt ? To dials' • tie- eet et prodsetioa. Bat it dare not
at all follow that the amount of wages is reduced; it dose.
nut f. -llow that brass* the dierlarri value is at one peri
hes this at another you tote to the crest of 646,0001.
(" Hear, bear," and cheers.) I say it lea totally erronetir
esseissios, that a loss to that amount has been eastaised.
D smell was here understood to male some obeervatica
is • subdued tome] I wish to take the words of the ham.
geneentatt kinewel :—" There is • depr elation of cotton
goods esporteelt compeer" 1819 with 1819, of 616,0001.
Therein,. the English workman has been obliged to receive
fortis labour 646,0001. hes than he did before." (Hear.)
That le what I sarletwoott the ban. gentleman to say ; and
what I my in reply is, that the intireoce is totally aro-
aeons, that becauee mere has been • diminution in the de-
clared value, • 100 has fallen upon the labourer. (Hear,
hear.) lan h.edly believe that the labourer has been •
sufferer. I will give yen another proof if the fallacy of
the conedmi ets drawn inns dimiestio• of the declared
vales of your manufactures. Is Or year 1815, the
quontity of yards of wove canon golds annufactured
fa and exported from this country, was 252,000,000. Of
teem the declared value, as it appears in the aceounm, was
18,158,0001. In the year 1845, you exported, of the same
goods, 1,091,000,000 of yards. The declared value was in
the two wet eased/ the same—that is to say, 100 yards
of calico being Week eighteen shi lines is 1815, in
1845, 400 yards were worth exactly the same. (Hear.)
Cu you mound on that mount that the labeurer who pre-
dated this ad.liiiria` quantity bad his wires reduced or his
eciatforts diminehed ? Atrer all, the moat important part of
W. queen a i. the condition of the labourer. (Hear.) Well,
now,l will take weenie which I have received cm this
point from terse different parts of this country. I will take
towns which 1 think fairly represent the manure:luring in-
tercets. I will first take Chippenham then Nottingham,
se representing the antral part of Englind ; and then Dun
dor, as representing &whiled. This is the account from
Chippenham, dated Juno 30," la the six months ending this
day we have paid to the as number of people 25 per cent.
more I. wages than in the coeval:mediae period of 1847, and
fully 20 per cent. mere than in 1848, and I believe the people
in this place generally are hene r fad, better clothed, ant in
every way more com enable than they have been for yearn
The general trade of the t wn is in a very flourishing s ate.
The poor rates are ab int three fartbiaas in the
pound. • • • The West of E..gland -cloth trade
Os unquestionably better than it has been for
Jean. I have reason to know Mi, in the town of Trow-
bridge, more prods have been made and sold within the last
six or nine month-, and a larger amonet of wages paid, than
were ever before known ; and this I believe is the ease in
the whelp of the west of Rngland." (Hear, hear.) In the
west of Engl .ntl, and in other el *thing districts, there is oaf
eon:plaint. What d o yon suppose that complaint is ? That
they do not get a sufficient quantity of foreign wool. (Hear, I
hear.) We reduced the duty on tertian woe!. It wassaid
that that reduction of duty would interfere with the dom s
tic proluee ; that it would depreciate the volee of the wool
'town at home. There is now no such complaint
The want is more wool, more foreign wool ; the more foreign
wool, the more domestic employment. (Hear, hear.) The
letter from Nottingham st.tes: "In the hosiery trade of
Leice.t. r and of Nottingham an advance of wages has
alreey tares plume; a mound advance is demanded by the
workmen; one- oerth of the workmen in Nottingham have
now struck for this second &dune.; and in my experience,"
the writer observe, " I found workmen striking for
an advance of wages, hut in times when they are in tolerable
eimusletaaces and in full work The letter from Doodle says,
"At ~o period fee sewr..l year. past have the workmen in tots
district been no fully and profiedey employed as now ; we
have every roma to molder trade ;Weep NAB here, and every
hope that it will continue to prosper and to imprave for some
time to some (Hear. hire There is a very great demand
fur labour In the mile, sad provisions and all edit, neater.
ries see excerdualy cheep—petal ees and butcher's meet
excepted, the Lem..? of which are always scarce and
dear at this time of the year, and the latter of which
is at no time made much use of by our labouring pepu-
ham. The concitiol of the working classes in our mean-
factuting di•tr.e.s err:orally I consider at this tire to be
most satisfactory." The boo. gentleman kr es more theft
one occasion prop-414,1a the doctrine—and supported it, I
seed mot add, wi.h peat abCity—thet you cannot field boa-
tile tariff with free import' That I i ave not before fairly
dale with this every, in reply tothe hon. etc ntlerean, hunt
arisen from Pay disrespect on my port t 'wards the hon.
gentleman, but simply because on the particular

oeet.iort when he wee prepared to tto it, t ere

was not time to diuuss it id. civatrly. (Hear, hear.) I
tow 40024 to the b u &alternate 6 argument spin the poor
law. I draw ..pp site conclusions fro u everyone of the as.
sampans whi sh the hon. gen 1 mon has put fervor( sin this
rant—from thou which the hon. eentleman has drawn. and
I think 1 can eseahlida that my conelmi ins are the accurate
twang as. (H. am hear.) 'the hon. path man says, see
how the poor rate s have increased; see bow the rate per
head of maintaining the pauper hes iirxemied ; wit how the
munber of able bodied labourers receiving relief has in.
ereemed in 1848, as compared with 1846; and having
Mese facts baton you, an 4011 4104 k the inference
mat they amount to • asaidemnation of the late
established system ? Let me now examine this argument et
bus bon. gentleman, derived from .he poor The bon. gen-
tlemen--end I am not et all surprised at it—referred to the
return which is in the report of the enasmiasioners for the
administreuon of the poor law, page 64, giving the entount
of poor rat • and the cost of manage ing thin pun: in 7 years
when the pricy of wheat was lowest, end the 0046 of main.
tainiog the poor in 7 years when the price of wheat was
Mahn?, and the hoo. gentleman drew from this return the
reference : you see that a low price of wheat will be no
guarantee to you that there will be • low amount of
poor Ma I do not at all blame the hon. gentle man
so far, for the use lie made of this return, but
I must say of the return emelt that, to my nothing
more of it, it is the most foolish return I ever
read. (Hear, bear.) When the bon. gentleman was read-
but from it, I thought, or course. that it was seven consecu-
tive years sit highest price, and then seven consecutive years
of lowest price, which the noun eanibiten, and I was natu-
rally struck to hear that during *emu, as I imagined. canon
cativo years (lowest prices, the cost of maintai. ing the poor
h..d been higher than in the seven consecutive, as I ima
gined, year. of highest prices. ( Hear, hear.) The boa.
gentleman, lades ~ very (ably stated in the course of his
argument, that he had not dew Mod the return as referring
ceneecu• in year., but when I onto to look at the return is
I found he ha., scarce done justice to the commissioners
who made the return. Tins is the ender in which they have
taken the seven years of low prices : 1839, 1840, 1441. 1848,
1842, 1847. 1838, tee last year la. one Ming 1847, and the
last year 1838. (" Hear, hen.," and laughter.) If we de-
sire to arrive at any accurate result, we must examine these
return, in a different point of view ; me must look at conse-
cutive years of low prices, awl at oanecutive periods of high
pima. Let us take the very period tr. ne which thew poor-
law• commissioners made up this—l wi.l not say what I
think of it—return. (Laughter.) Let us lake their returns
of certain years consecutively, from 1834 to 1848, and
see whether they justify the conclusion that when
we have • high price of wheat, we have a low cost of neMn-
ething the poor. (Hem, hear.) We will begin with 1834 ;
in 1831, 1834, 1836, 1837, the events@ price of wheat was
47.. per quarter ; you had then • eve' . of good years, and at
the en t o these good years you hid comparative else and
pooperhy. Iu le3l the aver nee price of wheat was 54e. Ild.;
in 1835, 44s 2.1.; in 1836, 39e. 3.1. ; in 1837, 625. 3d. the
average b ing 47.. In 1834, .h.• cr.,' sum ex,anded in the
inaiatenance of the poor was 6.317 0004 ; then came a con-
tinuance of low prices for four years, and this reduced the
a.gregate of the 6401 pod for the mar:sensate of tt e poor
trots 6,317,0001. to 4,410,0001., tie rate p r heed being re-
duced in like manner Isom Si. 91. to 51.6.1. (Hear, hear.)
Y.. 0 Inuit not, let me observe, place to the credit of low
prices the whole of this reduction, tor, at the time, there ware
progressing Cleat reforms in the administration of the poor
law, in the no elvesTroducing much eenieniny—l he art—which,
however, the gentlemen making the return had apparently
not taken in',. their calculation. (Hear, hear.) Now, see
what took place under a high eyelet ul ?ears. In 1838 no
material change had taken plus the total sum (or the
maintenance of the poor was 4,123,0001., end the rate per heed
6.. 314. ur years of high prices followed ; in 1839, 1840,
1841, and 1842, the average pric of wheat rune from 475. to
66s 9d. • sad the poor rate, which had been broucht down
to 4,444,0001., rose to 6,208,0001. ; the rare per head, which
is 1838 hid been 6.. 6d., rose in 1843 to 6.. Sld. (Hoar,
hear.) Then nom, a cycle of good years : In 18411-5 6 the
prices were 61.. W., 495. 2.1., 63.. 34. the average
prig: being 60s. 94. W. find a corresponding effect on the
• g.trtgate expense of maintaining the poor. The 'pitmen
amount, which in 1843 was 6.388,0001., fell, in 1846, to
4,540.0001, the rate per head being reduce din like manner
'rum 6.. 41 in 1841, to 6,. 104. in 1346. (Hear, hear )
The year 1848 presented a different pr.purion : there was
• great increase in the number of able hotbed poor in the
workhouses, • vat Marcus in the aggro gate of the poor
rate, • great increase in the rate tor he ad what it ference
de you draw from this, from the comparison of 1848 w.th
1.346? What but this, that is 1847 the price oh wheat
was high, the prices henna been 675., 72s 75. , 89.., and,
I the Lialwit price, 92'. (Hear.) In 1848 we had gnat
distress ; we bad a great increase in the number of our able-
bided paupers; the workhouses were crowded ; the poor
rate was or a•ly increased. What lesaticuate iht.renee ea
you draw from this but that dearness of ;revisions is a great
misfortune. (Hear, he .r.) Yea cannot argue from 1818
untos y u draw this conclusion. I say, then, that the hon.
gentleman's argument from the increase eat toe poor rats is
nut conclusive. I draw from it the exactly opposite conclu-
sion, that if 1.,w prices (*West, df r any moon of years,
capable of afro:dinar a test, the Increased demand for laboe.r
iu all the manta eturing di•tricts would raise and not
&ewer wages, and improve the mndition of the people
—(hear, hear)—and I say that the position of the
honorable gen'leman that our poor rotes will in•
crew as the price of provissins fall, is an argument that
tea upon no solid (outdo ion. (Hear.) I come now to con-
sider the merits of the principle which be desires to substi-
tute; and I believe that we are here doom:sing by far the
most important question which can be sulawtte4 to the
roost !nation of parliament—the principle, namely, which
shall govern our economic and o.mmercal legislation.
(Hear, hear.) Government may make blunders in details,
' which may be ounected, but an error in the pent:ides which
ate to direct our commercial legislation is a fatal err..r which
can be hardly otherwise than perostaat d. (Lou 1 cheers,
more • penally from the protectionist beaches.) Yee. I -ay
this is • most vital question. It is • ques ion which affects
our comfort and our Naha progren—meaning by scent pro.
Rem a peogo,,a in as.,risli;g, in the enjoyments of life, in Irl.
Anent. at ed taste, in civilisation. All these thing. should be.
at the very least, equally the objects of our cuueideration
with the icerease of the re . (Hear, lieu.) Proposals
have be -n made, dentine' have been propounded, b/ gen-
tlemen of great ability, and supported by • fomented pony.
whom, whatever the causes of my steessi iroin them, I
shall never 44464 to regard with sentiments of respect, as
men of high talent, of high ho lour, as men actuated by no
interested motives, but solely by • desire to promote the eel
fare of the people. (Hear, hear.) Plans 1144 e, I any. been
propounded by the chief* of this party, sad supported with
groat cal and ah: thy, which are to be practicer/ carried into
mouution, should the success of an motion rend r
in supporters the successors of the teoble lord opposite.
I believe that the laws which regulate the comelier-
dal int. neural between nations precisely the lame
fa principle as these which g ivern the intercourse of
badiehluals. The same law wh.ce governs the planetary
movements occasions the fall of an apple; and in like manner
the intercourse of private indtviottals is regulated upon the
'devotee' princip:es which govern the trattaactioas of nation',
end we ally mystify and darken the subject by nut always
looking upon it in this point or view. Adam Smith allit-
erates this great truths of political economy by
somparison with the transactions bat ween private
bmilvidusb. He says a tailor does nut make his own shoes,
hat be hap th•m of • man 6111.6 can make them cheaper than
he amid. So the shoemaker does not make his own clothes.
Take two individuals, a tailor and esh.:etaisker, residiog in
tbe same town ; and yippee. :hat the shoemaker buys from
eke tailor 101. worth of his good,. Suppose these 10s. to Apra
seat so may boors of labour at is. an hour. The tailor can
make 10r. worth of clothes in so many hours, and the shoe-
maker can also do the same thing. But suppose that each
of these can procure from a neighbouring town the same
quantity of clothe• and shoes fur seven shillings as they
paid each other ten shillings for. The argument urges
that they buy from each other for the protection of their
own industry ; and that for this nation the tailor and the
shoemaker give 10s. for what they could get in the mot
town (or 71. Now, is nit that a manifest loss of 6.. to them?
Would it not be to their interest to bay from the stranger
than front each other ; and would they heat tie for a moment
to do so ? Suppose even it is urged that house rent is dearer
he their town than in the neighbouring town, will it for a
moment be argued that that is any tenon why they
should pay a higher price for their provisions than
they could get them fur in that other town? II they did
pay 10.. fir what they wanted maned of 7s. there would be
• matt eat loss of 32. twice ever and each party would
thus sacrifice three holm' labour to the cause of what is
termed protection, but which I contend is not protection but
loss. But if you say that by this mode of dealing with other
towns all the currency of the town so dealing would be ales
shaded from it, I ask do you belies this a ssirtion ? D.
you not think that etch place will always be able
to comma-id the precise amount of currency
which in commercial and industrial necessities require ?
You laugh at the doctrine of buying ii the cheapest
and sellieg in the dearest market. The noble lord tells you
that this ia the doctrine of the Manchester school of pal tlal
ecor,ornists—that it is the doctrine of speculative political
Oaks:Titers. et Hear," and a laugh.) You may raise
laugh at the expression, hut I tell you that this is certainly
the doctrine taught by Adam Smith, by Hume, by Say,
and others of that distinguished school of econo-
mists. Other and contrary doctrines were put forth
by Montesquieu and Voltaire. tint Alain Smith
overturned their theory and showed the truth of his
d,cteioes. (Cheers and counter cheers.) But there are
others besides the phil- e Then whose names and authority I
hive cited who have held the same views with reepnt to
trade. When this eountrr was suffering from an unuorell
depression in its trade and comm roe, the bankers and mer-
chants p titioned this house, and that petition was, I find,
. signed .tad its doctrines sanction. d by the honoured name
of At. cinder Baring. (U. ar, hear ) I find in that petition
the following distinct and explicit statement—" that the
maxim of buyiog in the cheapest market and sell
! ing in the dearest, which regulates every merchant
in his individual de &hogs is roietly appiical.l•
!as the best rule for the trade of the whole natein." S that
we here find the tint and the most distinguished mer.haht
in the whole world can .ciatiog the doctrine which is • ow
exclusively attribirtd to the phil nophers of the Manchester
school. the honourable gentlemau who brought for-
ward this motion says that we cannot fight 1 ostile
tariff. by means of fr • trace—(hear, heart—and Coat the
only no acs or meeting foreign countries on their own
ground is by ciuntervailing duties on their produce. Now,let
se apply this docrine to the three great commercial c ninnies
front whim we draw our etief supplies—namely, the United
&atm, Prince, sad Russia. The United States imposes
heavy prohibitory duties on our cotton mi....el:nuns, and
Mill Engltnd is atdc, owing to her superiority in
machinery and ean'tal, to compete with the United
States in their own market. The duty on nor cotton
goods there is 20 per cent. ad valorem, and what are we
cslimi upon to do, according to the doctrines of the