The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-28 00:00:00

THE SUCCESSION DUTIES.

The Earl of MALMESBL ILI then rose, in pumanm of
notice, to move for a select committee to inquire iota the
probable tifect of extending to the cue of successions to
real property, and property under settlement, the stamp du-
ties now passible in respect of legacies. Ile paid, in making
this !notion. he could state with the utmost sincerity sod
frankness that be did so without the slightest portion of
par,' tir political spirit; and he promised their lordships
that so far as he was concerned no atom of that element
should be introduced into the quistion. He must com-
mence by abscising that be thought that house was the
most fitting place for a preparatory inquiry on this im-
portant subject, because it was composed of persons who
were not personally interested in the matter, and who
could not therefore be actuated by selfish feelings. When
the last goveroment retired, in consequence of their finan-
cial policy being disapproved of by the House of
it was to be expected that their successors would take up
the subject of finance ; especially as the pubiic had for seve-
ral years taken more interest in that branch of public ques-
tions than in any other. But he (the Earl of Malmesbury)
did not expect that Mr. Gladstone would have dealt with
the subject of a succesaioa tax upon real and settled pro-
perty, inasmuch as be thought tbe difficulties of
that *object were not exaggerated when painted
in sub vivid colours by -almost every statesman
who had lived during the last half century. (Hear, hear.)
He had no hesitation in saying that it was the mod amen-
dously inquisitorial bill that ever was proposed. (Rear,
hear.) It it posesd, Ms% in God's name, would accept the
situation of trashes or guardian ? (Hear.) He believed
that it would waft valet injuriously on the landed pro-
perty, sad ismaeopeently on the constitution of the country.
Tabs tie swot a mu whose name would be immortal
ba dos swede Odds nmatry. After the battle of Trafalgar
the Mad ended on estate on Lord Nelson, and it so hap-
pened diet elms. 1905 there had been three collateral me-
ssed= L this limdly. If this act bad been in operation
ark( OM pieta this property which had been bestowed
he amiss readied the motry would bars been taxed
One anent time. te the mast of 3 per nut. (Hear.)
He Yoked with appreheadem is this tax also because it was
to be a permanent tax, end ammo it offered no security
that it would not be isweses4 whenever the Chancellor of
the Eachequer wanted merrey. It was become he was con-
vinced a great deal of ireeressee prevailed on this subject
that he asked for a amisittee. If their lordships granted
him a committee he would go Otto that committee with a
mind open to moniedes ; mil if he found that the tax was
one for which geed mama mad be alleged, he would joie
with those who felt admiration for Mr. Uladstone, and
would give him credit lee Audios the means of adding to
the revenue of the asentry without doing injustice to any
class. (Rear, hear.)
The Earl of ABERDEEN said that the motion of the
noble earl commended itself by a certain degree of plausi-
bility, for at first sight it did not seem unreasonable that a
measure so impoitant, se difficult, so complicated, and so
personally interesting to their lordships, should undergo
such an inquiry as that for which the noble earl asked.
Yet there were reasons which should, he thought, induce
their lordships aot to support the motion of the noble earl.
They were such at all events as should prevent him from
giving the slightest encouragement to such a proposition.
First he begged to call attention to the time at which the
motion we. made. If this had been quite a new system of
financ,al policy, upon which thclegialature bad to make up
their minds before coming tom decision, there might become
reason for the motion. Hut the proposition of the govern-
ment had been stated in great detail by his right hon.
friend five or six weeks ago in the House of
Commons, and the reeolutiens proposed on the subject
had been armed a fortnight ago without any division.
(" Hear," from the Earl of Derby.) That being so, it
would be impossible to secede to the proposition for in-
quiry now made by the noble earl, without also joining is
the doubt, and the more than doubt, which the noble earl
expressed of the wisdom and justice of the measure. Now
happen what might, thee: lordship* might appoint a com-
mittee if they thought fit ; but nothing should induce him
to express any doubt of the wisdom and justice and equity
of the proposal of his right hon. frisod. (Hear, hear)
That proposal was now lister. the House of Commons, in
the form of a bill, and the speech of the noble earl was
made as if that measure bad been before their lordships'
house, and stood fi..4 a second reading. (Hear, bear.) The
house mast be aware that whether the committee was ap-
pointed or net, sad whatever. the result at which it might
arrive, they could not alter one tittle of the measure
without infringing on the privileges of the other house.
(Hear, hear.) No doubt it was perfectly -comtent for
their lordships to throw the bill out on the second reading
(hear, hear)—but he need not say how deeply
he should regret the risk to thee lordships'
house, as well as to the country, from the adop-
tion of so rash and impolitic a course. (Hear, hear.)
The noble earl had fairly told them that he asked for a
committee with a view of disproving the contents of the
but even the noble earl did Lot deny the justice cf tho
proposition. The noble fail only referred to the difhc, j'
ties of executi.n in the way of the meagre, and he re-
ferred, in support oc his view, to the authority of Mr. Fox
end Mr. Sherido.e. Now, with all due respect to the

authority of Mr. Fox and Mr. Sheridan. he Ix:need they
had made gnat progress, especially in linone.ial principles,
since their days; and he thought it was generally admitted
that Mr. Pitt was right in the eropoeition he made. (Hear.)
The country has fur a long time felt the injustice of the
exemption of land from the tax re., successions. (Hear.)
That feeling was gaining ground daily, and he could ask
' any one of their lordship+ if he could candidly say that this
exemption could possibly be maintained much longer?
(Hear, hear) it was true Glue was no riot, no violence,
co outcry at the present moment, but there existed a
strong feeling of the injustice and inconsistency of exempt-
ing land from a tax which was imposed on all other pro-
piety. Moreover, this measure was iudispenusble for the
carrying into effect the finapeial scheme proposed by his
right bun. friedd the Chancellor of the Exchequer. With-
out this measure it woult not he possible to arty into effect
that scheme. At all events, he, on the put of the
government, assured the it lord-hips and the country that
they had not the slightest intention of wavering or hesi-
tating an instant with regard to the wisdom, the justice, or
tke policy of this tax. (Cheer.)
The Earl of DERBY said that he had no attire to cuter
on that occasion upon the subject which had been so ably
brought before their lordships by hie noble friend. But
there were some observatiens of the noble earl opposite
which he could not allow to pass without remark. The
course puesucil by the noble earl reminded him of what
Lord Althorn, V en a member of Earl Grey's government,
Raid on one (evasion in reference to • measure then under
discussion. When Lord Altherp was pressed on the subject
be said he would abide by the decision of the cabinet,
that he knew good reasons for the unwire, but he was
unable to state them, and upon that lie asked fur the sup-
port of the House of Commons. ('• Hear, rear," and •
laugh.) Whether their lordships had so much cone ',nee
in the noble earl as the noble lord demanded from the
Howe of Commons, he did not linear, but his speech was
of the same kind, fur the noble earl did net attempt to
grapple with the mutant injustice and impracticabi:ity of
the measure as exposed by his noble friend, but eontenttd
himself by saying that the government were satisfied of
the juslice of the measure, that they would not waver •
single instant, that they would not allow inquiry or con-
sultation, bat that it must be intend right or wrong.
(Hear, hear.) The noble earl still that they might inquire
it they pleased, hut that he could not writ for the result nr
that inquiry, and that both houses of parliament must
bliadly pose Vie measure. lie (the Earl of Derby) hardly
thougot that this was the line of argument which
a prime mini-ter of England should adopt. (Hear, hear.)
The noble earl said that this was a antject which pecu-
liarly belonged to the province of the House of Commons.
But he (Lord Derby) had yet to learn that their lordships'
house were bound to register the decrees of the House of
Cummoos, even in financial matter., or that the House of
Lords were bound to comply blindly with their requests,
be they right or wrong, be they just or unjust, be they
practicable or impracticable. As to the immense sun-,
attained by the financial projects of the present Chancellor
of the Exchequer, he must oe permitted to doubt whether
they had been received with that degree of favour which
the government anticipated. He hail heard it whispered
that after dealing, as the Cis:timeline of the Exchequer had
done, with very many millions of stock, the substantial
saving from the conversion would be only some 400,13001.,
and that his financial resolutions were regarded
in the city as only so much "mete paper.
(Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman was, no doubt, a
man of great abilities; it might nut be his fault that his
scheme had not met with greater success. He (Lord Derby)
did not condemn it; but ho doubted whether it was an
exemplification of that immense and overwhelming suecess
which led the noble cell (Aberdeen) to sathat such •
Chancellor of the Exchequer had never yet been seen, that
such success hod never been attained by any financial mea-
sure, and that he and his colleagues were the only parties to
conduct the government. (" Hear," and laughter.) In
order to like off the income tax in 1860—which he hoped
their lord-hips would live to see—(laughter)—it was said
that it was essential to impose this tax on successions ; but
were they quite sure that the Chancellor of the Exchequer's
calculations as to tie amount of income to be derived from
this tax were correct? He calculated that property
changed hands by succession once in 30 years upon
an gee Of this they might judge by the re-
currence of the tax on personal property ; and
the calculation was that about one-sixteenth of all
the personal property in tho country was brought to tax
every ye •r its consequence of the legacy duty. If that were
so, the probable duration of each succession to personal pro-
perty was an anemic of 16 years, not of 30. (Hear, hear.)
lie was at a loss to know what there was in landed pro-
perty that should render the succession more slow than to
personal property, or how a person inheriting both kinds
of property could at his decease give a succession to the
one in a period of 16 years, and to the other in 30 year*.
In that case, in his capacity as an owner of real property,
he must outlive himself by 14 years as an owner of personal
property. (Laughter.) At all events, it was • prima folio
reason to doubt whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer
had not exaggerated by nearly one half the period of the
recurrence of successions, and consequently under-rated by
about one-half the amount of annual income that
would accrue to him under that tax. Looking at
the necessary expense of such succession,, and the amount
of this tax on a large property, he would ask what those
four sucensors would have had to live upon during
the first six months if this bill had been in opera-
tion ? (Hear, it.ar.) The noble earl opposite had
made no attempt to answer his noble friend
on this or any other point. There was the case of persons
coming into possession, as tenants for life, of heir-looms,
which were often of immense value. Suppose any of their
lordships to be in possession, as an hereditary jewel, of the
Koh-i-Noor—whatever its value might be, one or two
million sterling—(hear, hear,)—he would have to pay the
tax on the value of that jewel, measured by the ;probable
duration of his life ; and on his death his successor would
have to pay again on it ; though neither one nor the other
could realise • single shilliug out of it, still they must pay.
There was no privet* property in England, or in the world,
that could stand two or three successive taxes on two or
three successive inheritances of the Koh-i-Noor. (Hear,
hear.) Take the case of • tontine, to which there
were 100 subscribers, and the last survivor was to
take the property. Of course, as each life dropped Ice,
each survivor would acquire a new beneficial lateral,
and would be taxed upon that additional interest, though
none but the ultimate survivor would ever derive any
real benefit. (Hear, hear.) Then there was the case
of annuities. It was • gross injustice to levy a fresh tax on
the owner of the property charged with annuities as each of
them fell in. The owner of • landed property sub-
ject to certain annuities mu.t, as each of them fell
in, present himself before the taxing officer to declare
the contingent benefit he derived from that source ;
then he was tined on the value of that annuity measured
by the probable duration of his life ; and this was to be re-
peated upon every single annuity. Could there be • system
calculated to produce more perpetual harass and annoyance
than this system of taxation upon what the Chancellor of
the Exchequer called successions to beneficial interests?
Whilst they looked with deference and respect to the
opinions andproposed legislation of the House of Commons,
he trusted that upon every occasion they should exercise
their own independent judgment, and not fear to say
whether upon the whole the adoption or rejection of this
bill would be the greater evil—at all events, that they
would not fear to say that before they legislated they would
at least inquire. (Hear, hear.)

Earl GBAN VILLE said the proposition had been
almost annually made by independent members of the
house, and full discussions had ensued thereon. The
proposition had been met by the same objections, but not
the very best arguments, by different Chancellors of the
Exchequer. As to the unfairness of taking thirty years as
the average interval of successions, he would remind the
house that, some time ago, the average value of life in this
country was thirty-three years; and no doubt that value
bad since improved, particularly among the higher classes.
The noble earl had put the ease of a minor succeeding to
an estate mortgaged to a certain amount, and said that he
might not have the means of paying the tax on the succes-
sion. But the thane proposed in the bill was to reduce the
gross to the net income, and to levy the tax on that
amount; so that no difficulty would arise in the case
supposed. The noble earl bad alluded to the hard-
ship of paying a sum of money. en succession
to the koh-i-noor, bat there was a clause in the bill which
exempted such heirlooms from any tax whatever. (Hear,
hear.) The question of timber had been referred to. All
ornamental timber, such as shrubberies, would be ex-
empted from paying the tax. With regard to the sale and
valuntion of timber, the person succeeding would have this
option. He might either pay the tax upon the average in-
come of a certain number of years, or, if he did not choose
to take that alternative, be might have the whole timber
valued, and then calculate the tax upon the probable dura-
tion of his life at 3 per cent. The same principle would be
' adopted with regard to mines, and if there was no value in
a mine, no tax would be imposed upon it. As to widows,
the ease rather broke down. The noble earl said that the
son or heir to the person who left the widow would have
to pay the tax upon anteceding to the jointure when it
came to him from the widow. But it should be remem•
bered that in valuing the estate the widow's charge would
be taken off the valuation ; and when it ultimately descended
to the heir, he had only to pay the tax upon that which he
had not received at an earlier period. (Hear, hear.) The
same principle would apply where an annuity was settled
on a steward. When it fell in, and the owner of the estate
derived an accession of property to that amount, he would
pay pro tanto upon that—not 10 per eent.—hut according to
his degree of consanguinity to the original proprietor. As
to trustees, the machinery of the bill was exactly the same
m had existed for more than fifty years with respect to
leaseholds, as well as mere money or peraoaal property.
During that time there bad been exactly the same
machinery, and the same liability ; yet trustees had eta
cuted trust., and, ea he was informed, not a single question
had arisen in law as to the value of the properties so dealt
with. With regard to successions in a short number of
years, there would actually be a saving by the proposition
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. In tontines no-
body would pay till they actually received the
money and became beneficial successors ; and upon
that succession the tax would be paid. Small
landed proprietors would be taxed in proportion to their
interest in the estate; and to those the bill would be a
positive advantage. He hoped that their lordships would
not, alter the request of the noble earl at the head of the
government, insist upon having a committee on this ques-
tion. He did not believe it would weaken the government
the least in carrying out the bill, though it might have an
unfortunate effect on public opinion as regarded- that house.
He entirely agreed with the noble earl opposite in scouting
the idea that their lordships could be moved by any petty
personal motives ; but there was no doubt that their pre-
judices—for eeerTbody had their prejudices—were bound
up with the landed interest. Ho believed tha• their lord-
ships' house stood higher in the estimation of the public
than it had done almost at any previous time i and this was