The Express.
London, England, 1848-03-11 00:00:00

11148. 1647.
Coates twtd
%wad se4 sewing 114,746
Plata sellsou .. ride 111.1126,041
Prlaaelesilmoss .....«..... 16,147.312
741,03
.... mons
16,226
2,136
Having shown that the falling-off in the amount of our ex-
ports to the east and to southern Europe was not etttributable
to the policy of the right ken. baronet, bat to extraordinary
and unexpected circumstances, he now begged the
of the uoble lord (Bentinch) ta this most remarkable fact,
that our emporia to those countries from which we had re-
ceived our supply of grain had enormously increased even
during the very first year of the right hon. helmet's expe-
riment. Our exports tel the United States and Russia had
been in the last two year,. respectively :
1646. 1647.
Plain adieu ............ yards 12,464,113
Printed callems ............... 17,240,546
Lns ............. ....... . 20,011,312
Woolfens ........... ....... 1,354,24 a
1411ka . ......................... 1o,l4tra
Cotten Mist ............... Its. 14,110,502
(hired ............... 1,407,801
The noble lord had alluded to the reduction of duty upon
brandy as having caused au increase of price. But it was
only the first natural result of an increased demand to raise
the price of the article in bond. (Hear, hear.) In 1845, the
year immediately preceding the tariff, we imported 1,700,000
gallons ; and in the year immediately following, notwith-
standing the additional price in bond, we imported 2,600,000;
but as that additional price was only Is , or la. 4d., it fol-
lowed, as the reduction of duty was from 225. 10d. to 15e. 6.1.,
that even, according to the noble lord's own showing, the
consumer gained a benefit of 6.. a gallon. Viewing all these
facts, be maintained (It a so far from having to regret the
commerciel and financial policy of 1842, as having
been injurious to trade and the country generally,
it had, on the contrary, been perfectly muccen-
fut, by enriching the country in twenty times the
amount of the income tax, and preserving it from the effects
of a serious discord between the ruling and the ruled, which
with the deprened state of other European countries as well
as this, wee sure to arise, if by the timely concessions of the
right hon. baronet a sufficiency of food had not been hronght
into the country. (Hear, hear.) Ile now came to the
questio teet
heore immediately before
tomthe, and which he con-
sidered
which had been prosperous. (A laugh.) Yes, he would
ay proalferous, for if we had not received those additional
! import. front Russia and the United States, given us by that
richer, the country would doubtless be in • much worse
condition. (Hear, hear.) The great question, then, was
whether they should persevere in that policy or re-
vert back to the former system of excise and cus-
tom., in order to equalise the income and expenditure.
There were, he considered, three courses open to them to
make good the deficiency of 3,300,0001. They might bons*
and some might think it wise to do so ; but he was
glad to perceive that the feeling of the house was opposed to
mate:tiler the funded debt of the country in a time of
peace. (Hear, hear.) They might reduce the expenditure,
or they might increase vexation. Now he bed looked into
the estimates, and he must say that lie thought all that could
be dune with them had been dose by the gentlemen
who proposed them, cunaietently with their public
duty. Thum estimates, it should be observed, bad not
been prepared itt relerence to the future policy of the govern-
ment, but in accordance with a policy which had been sanc-
tioned by that house, and it was the house and not those
gentlemen who were responsible for that policy. Committees
had been appoii.ted on the subject, and he had no doubt
wank' elfcet a:1 possible reductions in them; but he did not
think it consistent with the dignity of that house or the
gene element to refer those estimates to a committee. He
could understand the appointment of a committee to inquire
in.() the general income and expenditure of the country, but
that was a very different thing from a ;committee to naves-
', tigate specific estimates, for which their best guarantee
ought to he the responsibility of the government.
With respect to the expenditure he did not believe thatthe re
was any probability of its reduction, for the present yeter.
Instead at beginning with the estimates they should first in-
vestigate their cause or foundation. First of all, it could nut
h • forgot.en that their deficit amounted to no less than
3.300,0001. Upon that ground, if even there was no other,
be could not but look to the future with the greatest appre
hension, for he was convinced the country, in di•approviog
of the proposition originally made by the government had
taken a m•ot petilous step—a step which he for one could not
feel it his duty to sanction in any manner. It might be very
unpopular for him to stato plainly as he thendid, that he firmly
be jewel the country were wrung in not submitting to the
iurreasi d income tax, and that the government would have
acted wisely and properly if they had persevered in their
original proposition. (Cheers from the opposition benches.)
tie believed they would not live two years until they would
have oiscovered that the opposition to the measure, as origi-
nally proposed by government, was ill•advised and injudi.
clew., and that it would have been much more for the advan-
tage of all classes in this country if that measure had been
perseve red in. He never had had any communication upon the
subj. et with airy one connected with the government, and
h.. knew nothing whatever of their intentions except from
what he had heard in that house in the course of the debate.
But he felt convinced, after considering the suhject maturely,
that the government had no other mode of increasing the
income of the country, except that which they originally
prep...ed. The customs or excist duties could not he in-
' creased, nor could the sugar duties ; what other mode,
then, had the government to obtain the necessary
supplies except by the imposition of direct taxation ?
The fact was that every tax we paid was in
the form of an income tax. Income was taxed directly or
indirectly. The only question was, whether we should pay
iudirectly upon such articles as we consumed, or directly in
the shape of a tax upon our incomes. Then came the ques-
ti os what sort of tax it should be. The form confirmed by
that house in 1845 seemed the best, first, because they had
the whole machinery already in operation, and secondly,
they hail the public mind reconciled to it. (Cries of '' No,
no," and murmurs.) Well, thee, if the public
mind was not reconciled to it, the house had to blame
themselves fur that. They had been told that the income
tax was odious, vexatious, and inquisitorial. lle was very
much of twat opinion himself in 1512, but in truth the tax
hod acquired a sort of historical character not calculated to
recommend it favourably. However, he had heard,
in public or in private, very few objections to the
manner in which the tax had been collected. He
bad fr. quently been in communication with many
persons under the operation of the excise laws. and
from all he had been able to learn upon the subject, he had
no hesitation in saying that there was nocomparison between
the taxes. The excise taxes were in every respect much
more ehjectionable than the income tax, and those whowere
under their operation felt that deeply. It was objected by
the noble lord (G. Bentinck) that the imposition of the in-
come tax had the effect of withdrawing a large portion of
the funds of the country, which would otherwise go to em-
ploy labour. But what other tax was there that hod not the
same effect ? The customs or excise duties equally impeded
the employment of labour. It was next objected that it
was a war tax, but there was no weight in that objection.
The objections upon the ground of inequality were bettor
founded. The more he considered the question the more he
felt convinced that there might be successfully and usefully
an attempt made to make the tax more equal. (Hear,
hear.) And he was somewhat surprised that the government
had not done so, as with many hon. gentlemen within
the walls of that house as amongst immense
numbers out of doors, he believed the princi-
pal objections to the tax were on the ground of its
inequality. In large commercial communities he believed it
would have been much better received had an attempt been
made to make it more equal. (Hear.) He had listened
with great attention, a few evenings ago, to the argume sits
of the hon. member for Cuckermouth (Mr. Herman), and
he fully approved of the principle which that hon. member
laid down. He (Mr. Wilson) was however very sorry that
a mere accident prevented him from voting in support
of the hon. gentleman's motion. The right hon. gentleman
(Mr. Guulbum) stated that all taxes were unequal,
end that none could be made equal. Ile (Mr. Wilson) ad-
mitted no tax could be made equal with mathematical accu-
racy, but be would say in the words of Mr. Pitt, " We
should do what we could to make this tax equal." (Hear )
Theu come the question whether the three per cent
now proposed should be granted for three years or tor one
only ? He would earnestly ask the house to consider how
any government could on with a deficit of over three!
millions staring them in the face? ltow could they turu
th. it am mien to any commercial or other measures of im•
provement unless they were certain of an increase in the
revenue, at least to the amount of 5,000,0001. ? And were
they to depend for that increase upon the annual vote of
that hoe, 7 Nothing could be more unwise. On the Ist of
Feb., 1549, the present duty upon foreign corn would cease
altogether, and the course proposed to be taken with re-
ference to the proposition of the government was more cal.
cube ed than any other to counteract and defeat the effect of
the principle of free trade lately established. (Hear.) lie
objected to the inequalities of the income tax, but, ii they
could not be removed, he would not in any manner en
danger the passing of the btll by opposing it. He hail
accompanied his hon. friend the member for Montrose
and others on many deputations to the noble lord (J
Russell) to ask fir reduction in the duties on tea, to ,aceo,
and other foreiin articles. They were, of count., very
courteously received ; hut bow could it be expected that the
government could, consistently with the discharge of their
duties, comply with the requisitions of such deputations?
Was it wise that the whole basis of their financial re-
sources should he made to rest upon the annual vote ..f
that house for a tax which was so easily made unpopuler ?
(Hear, beer.) He looked with the utmost alarm
at the enormous deficit, and he was not able to dis-
cover any tenon for expecting a permanent improvement to
our commercial interests. With the United. States our largo
trade of last year would not exist this year. When he looked
at the ',ate of pAitics and commercial credit on the coot ins ilt
of Europe, and the large failures in the banking interests
there, he could not indulge the hope of any improvement iii
our trade in those quartets. In our colonies he could not
ace any reason to anticipate a revival of our formi r trade.
There was no reason for expecting improvement abroad, and
he feared they had too much ground for apprehending that
our difficulties at home would not be decreased. He, there-
fore, thought it most imprudent to reduce the income tax, or
take it only for one year. lie might be asked, as those were
his opinions relative to the prospects of the country, why
should he propose to increase the taxes at such a crisis
His answer was simple he would support the public credit
at all hazards. lie believed it was the opinion of that
house, and of the country at large, that at aptropaeltrtyhaZurdlds
it should be supported. (Hear, hear.) Real
yield the same amount of taxation as before, but if trade
was injured, as it must inevitably be, by any blight upon
our credit, the lasting interests of the country would be
affected. If trade was prostrated a less amount of taxes
could he 'paid by our merchants. If incomes arising from
trade or commerce were small, an income tax was evidently
the best that could be imposed, for it was diminished in pro-

received, and until they did obtain an answer no decision
would be come to. With regard to the papers—betoo any
measure was submitted to parliament all the men and
despatches bearing ou the subject would be laid hewn both
houses. (Hear.)
Mr. SCOTT inquire if government bad communicated
with the legislative cound cil ?
Mr. LABOUCBERE sad it was not usual for the Colo-
nial-office to communicate directly with the legislative
council. They had communicated with the governor of the
colony, who would of course submit the communication to
the council.
THE SPANISH AND PORTUGUESE TARIFFS.
Mr. BANKES,in accordance with a motion he had given,
asked whether any reply had been received to the repress n
Wiens made by our minister at Madrid, on the select of
increased duties imposed by the Sp mesh government on
articles of British manufacture; 1000 why no return had
been made in compliance with the order of she house re-
spectiog the present tariffs of Spain and Portugal ?
Lord PALMERSTON, with regard to the first question,
said that an answer bad been received from the Spanish
government, dated the 28th of December, to the communi-
cations made by our minister at Madrid, which, if is would
give any satisfution, be would lay on the table,—(hear,
hear)—urging at some length that th- decrees which we had
objected to were not liable so the objections which had been
taken, inasmuch a. they did not apply more, if sa much, to
articles of British then to throe of le reach moinufacture. This
WWI as to woollen rolls; and with regard so mixed goods the
charges which had been made were intended only to pre-
vent abuse. As to the second question, he hail sent tresh
directions to our ministers at Madrid sad Lisbon to obtain
copies of the Snanish and Portuguese with+ without delay.
In respect to Portugal it was easy to imagine that the state
of things which had been existing there fir some time past
might lead the government of that country to forget our des
mend, and he was satisfied thnt in both cases the reason the
information had not been given arose from oversight, and
not from any desire to refuse it. (Hear.)
Mr. BANKES —Will the noble lord lay the answer he
has received from the Spanish government on the table ?
Lord PALMERSTON—IIea. (Heir.)
DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH ROME BILL.
In reply to a question from Mr. PlA:nitrite,
Lord PALMERSTON said en it wee sot likely he should
be able to bring on this bill on Monday next, he would fax
it for Monday week.
INCOME TAY (IRELAND).
Mr. HAMILTON asked wheths r the hors. member for
Marylebone intended to bring on his ration for extending
the income tax to Ireland ; and ilea, when ?
Sir B. HALL did intend to bring on that motion, and to
take the sense of the committee upon it—(hear, hear)—but
when he could not say, until the debate on the main ques-
tion was brought to a conclusion. Perhaps the Chancellor
of the Exchequer wculd state when, supposing the committee
should decide to-night whether the tax should continne for
one or three year., he would again go into committee on
ways and means ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—On Mon-
day sir. (The decided tone in which this answer was given
occasioned some laughter.)
VACANT STALL IN DURHAM CATHEDRAL.
Mr. HORSMAN inquired whether the stall in Durham
Cathedral which had fallen variant by the elevation oh the
Bishop of Chester to the archbishopric sat Canterbury was to
be filled up ?
Lord J. RUSSELL, who spoke in so low a tone that it
was diffi ult to collect his answer, was understood to any that
government had no intention of filling it tip.
SCOTCH ENTAILS BILL.
Sir G. GREY, in reply to Mr. B. Coen ILA E, said his tight
hon. ft lend the Lord Advocate, when he returned to town,
would fix the day for bringing on the second reading of this
hill, which at present steal for Tuesday next.
WAYS AND MEANS.—TH It: INCOME TAX—
ADJOURNED DEBATE.
On the question that the house resolve itself into a com-
mittee of ways and means,
Mr. HUME begged to make a remark on a letter which
had been written by the hon. baronet the member for the
Tower Hamlets to the Times newspaper complaining of a
misreport therein, and stating as his reason for voting against
his (Mr. Hume's) motion that it would create • deficiency in
the revenue of 7.000,0001 , and endanger the credit of the
country. Now, what he (Mr. Hume) wished to state wee,
that whether they now voted the income tax for nue or fur
three year., would not in the least alegrea aff:ct the credit
of the country, or diminish its present resources for meeting
the expenditure.
The house then went into committee, and
Mr. J. WILSON resumed the debate. The hon. gentleman
commenced his speech by declaring his belief U at the whole
question turned upon the commercial and financiel policy
pursued by the gore rnment since 1842 Ile admitted that
the commerce of the country was at present in a prostrate
condition, and that its industry was paralyse' ; and he was
aware that the hon. member for South Warwickshire, and
the noble lord the member fur King. Lynn, attributed that
state of things to the commercial p. they retereed to. Now,
when the rignt hon. baronet proposed tie income tax in
1842, he did so with two objects—first, to raise the
financial condition of the country ; and secondly, so to re-
lieve the springs of industry, that in the course
of time the income might equal the expenditure without
having recourse to any extraordinary measures ; and how
far that policy had been suceeseful he would at once pro-
ceed to show. The right hon. baronet had reduced or re-
pealed taxes to the following e 'tent : lot 1842 be reduced
, them 1,590.000/. ; in 1843, 411,0001. ; in 1814, 407.000/. ;
in 1845,4,749,0001. ; in 1846, 740,0001.; making a total of
7,897,0001. : and de meting from that the amount of the in-
come tax, 5,624,0001, • profit appeared in favour of the
country of 2,273,000/., between what it paid in the shape 01
income tax end what it saved by the repeal or reduetion
of other taxes. In 1842, the produce of the customs wan
23,515,3741.. and of the ex, ise, 14,602,8171., =eking toge-
ther 38,118,2211.; and in 1841, eotwith.tanding 'lie reduc-
tions which had been made by the tariff of the right hon.
baronet, the customs were 22.278,3161., and the excise
15,012,101., making together 37.290,4591. (Rear, hear l
and equalling within 'shout 800,000:. the revenue of 1842
What then had been the effect of this policy upon the public
debt ? The amount of deficiency bills on Jan. 5, 1842, was
6,600,0001. ; in 1843 it wax no lees than 8,560.0001. ; in 1841
it was reduced to 5,462.0001.; in 184,5 it was reduced to
2,095,0001.; in 1846, to 280,0001 ; and in 1847, the govern-
meet were in a position to pay the whole of their li.bilities
without calling on the Bank of England for a fraction
(Cheers.) The policy of the right hon. baronet had there-
f ore cleared off the unfunded debt, and by the imposition of
the income tax saved the country no less than 0,000,0001.
annually, as the following table showed :

.C1,295,P0
68,612
95.00
473,033
7,1407,000

M the Now roolbed. Notoidroanding the mono—
rp 'Adam of cern and otboo mievisions, and the antici-
pated mils of free trade, lei lei not only maintsinhst
the
ed its
value, but increased it ; sad he could not suppose t
husdal interest would refuse the payment of • tax levied alike
upon all for the purpose of upholding the public credit. The
recently prorated addition of 2 per cent. on that tax was
of little consideration in comparison to the injury wbich the
country would sustain if any blight were thrown upon its
credit. For these reasons be would have supported the
go vernment in their proposition for increasing that tax
to 5 per cent., and would now vote for its cons nuance for
three years.
Mr. J. B. SMITH was in favour of aproperty tax, but would
neverthelses support the motion of the hon. member for Mon-
trose. He objected to the inequality and injustice of the in.
comets:. It was complained of in every community.
Sir W. MOLES WORTH did not think it necessary, after
the able speech of the hon. member fur Westbury, to defend
the free.trade policy. So far from this' policy heel
the cause of our embarrassment*, it was clearly
traceable to the increased expenditure—which bad aug-
mented with fearful rapidity store 1836. It was then
lower than it had been sines 1820. Notwithstanding
ten millions of taxes had been repealed since 1835, the
revenue had increased from 46 millions to above 51
millions; but unfortunately the expenditure ad tease
ind
from 44,400,000 in 1835 to 54,500,000 in 1 h 847. (Hear,
hear.) This Menem was double the amount of the income
tax, two minions more than the whole peer rate, and six
times the amount of the window duty. (Hear, hear.) From
1835 to 1847 there had been an increase of 10,400,0001. in the
army, navy, ordnance, and miscellaneous expenditure ; and
of this increase 7,000,0001. was spent on the three first depart.
menu. (Hear.) Last year the expenditure on thine three
services was 18,600,0001., being four millions more than in
any other year since the peace, however great
the danger in which the country had been placed.
It had exceeded by three millions the expenditure during
theme three eventful years in which the Duke of Wellington
was minister—during which time there occurred the Freach
and Belgian revolutions. (Hear, hear.) From that period
there lmd been a decrease until 1835, when the exnditure
for the three services did not exceed 11,700,0001. Last year
the expenditure for the same three services was 18,500,00014
and • further increese was threatened. (Hear.) There had
been a steady increase since 1835, at the rate of 680,0001. s
year ; this year the increase, including the 150,0001. for the
militia, would be 750,0001. (Hear.) In seven years there
had been an excess of expenditure over income varying
from 300,0001. to 3,000,0001. Had it not been for the M-
I crease in the war expenditure, there might have been an
excess of income over expenditure of from 400,0001. to
I 4,000,0001.; and in the present year, that micas would
have been so great as to allow of the remission of
I the tea duties, or sonic other impost pressing
on the industrial classes. (Hear, bear.) Why should our
expenditure so largely exceed what it bad been in times of
difficulty and danger, when we were interfering in Syria, in
Turkey, and elsewhere ? Why should it be greater than it
I was in the last year in which the right hon. baronet the
member for Tamworth bad held office What had we to
fear ? Were we afraid of the Pope, or had we been afraid
of Louis Philippe ? (" Heir," and laughter.) In the last
two years there had been a defalcation of nearly 6,000,000!.,
adding the surplus of 3,500,0001., which existed in January,
1846, to the deficiency which had occurred in the past year.
It was said that this was attributable to the commercial em-
berreesments of the country ; but this he denied ; for how
could that cause convert a positive surplus into a deficiency ?
(Hear.) '1 he true cause was to be found in the incase of
our expenditure on the three services. Why shouldthat expen- I
ditureexceed the average of the five years in which the right II
hon.baronet the member for Tamworth had held office, when
it was 14,700,0001. ? Now, it was 17,9(18,000/., exclueive of
the 150,0001. proposed for the militia; showing an increase
'of 3,268,0001. • and for whet ? I Hear.) Let this expende
tura be reduced to the same amount as it was in 1816
instead of a deficiency at the present moment, there would
Ibe a positive surplus. (Hear, hear.) It was alleged that the
increase in our naval armaments had been rendered neces-
sary by a similar increase on the part of France. lie admit-
ted there had been such increase ; hut that conntry which
was the first to pause in such a race of extravagance would
be the wisest. (Hear, hear.) Ought not this country to be
the first to cry halt ? There were two reasons why we should
do so : the fur greater strength of our navy beyond
that of France, and our commercial supremacy. (Hear.)
So long es this country retained her commercial supremacy,
France would in vain seek to deprive her of her maritime
superiority. All history showed the truth of this principle
it had been the case with Holland, with Venice, and othi r
nations. Instead of augmenting her navy, it would he a
much wiser course for France to encourage her commercial
marine by doing away with absurd restrictions. Our com-
merce with France had greatly augmented of late years, and
is was now one of our best customers. From 1830 to 1e45
the trade between the two countries h ad increased sixfold; in
1830 our exports to France amounteri only to 450,000/. ; in
1845 they hail increased to 2,791 00(1!. France bought
more from this country than the did from any other, and
11 she sold more to it than to any other. (Hear.) Hence
it was the pecuniary interest and the best policy of the two
countries to preserve peace, and to be friends and allies.
(Cheers.) Every Englishman must rejoice at the downfal
of tyranny in France, and must hope that the efforts of the
French people fur securing their liberty might be attended
with success'. (Hear, hear.) He would now inquire what
reduction could be made in the three services, without de-
triment to the public interest. Three reasons had teen as-
signed by the right hon. Secretary at War for the enormous
increase in the navy ; the former mismanagement of the
dockyards, the introduction of steam-vessels into the navy,
and the cost of the packet service. The increase had been—
for new work. 600,0001.; naval 'stores, 1,100,000/ ; packet
service, 600,041.; in all, 2,300,0001. But the increase in
the navy estimates amounted to 3,500.0001., so that
1,200,0001. was unaccounted for. This would ho
found attributable to the vast increase in the
force of the navy. In 1835 there had been
voted 26,500 men ; in 1847, 43,000 men, being an increase of
16,500, at an increased cost in wages and victuals alone of
800,0001. For what purpose had this incr. ago been made ?
The right hon. baronet the member for Tamworth bed said
it was necessary for the protection of our commerce scattered
over the face of the lobe. But for that it did not require
that 16 men of wagr, carrying 750 guns, and manned by
8,000 hand', should be motioned in the Tarts, as seas the
ease in September last. (Hear, hear.) Nor did we require
for this purpose. fleets on the coasts of Spero, of Africa, and
of South America. All that was required was a few frigates
or sloops of war wandering about the ocean. In this respect
we might take an exempla Item the United States of
America, whose commerce moat nearly equalled our own ;
for wherever an Eieetish merchant we. found to be buying
or selling in any quarter of the glebe, there was an Amercan
trader to be feund. (Hear, hear.) In 1811, the United
States, in addition to the small squadron which they
were obliged to keep off the coast of Africa by treaty with
us, had ouly one frigate and one sloop in MEli..o ; two
frigate' and two sloops on the Brazil station ; a frigate, a
sloop, and a brig in China ; and the same on the New Lea-
land station ; one wandering round the world ; and one, the
only one is commission, carrying their minister to China.
The cost of the whole of the United States navy in 1845 was
1,200.0001.,—just one slxth of ours, and they paid their sea-
men much better than we did. (Hear, hear.) It was
therefore absurd to say that we regeireel this enormous ex-
penditure to protect our commerce. Our army was said to
be necessary to protect our colonies. Last et. ar the number
of effective forces in the colenies was 35,792 men ; in 1835,
it had been 31,360; an increase of only 4,412. But with
the colonies properly govern, el. and with the Coloniaboffiee
reformed, we might do with a much smaller number,—say,
one half the amount, to garrison stele places as Malta,
Gibraltar, and Quebec. But the iecreese in the colonies did
net account for the greet inerese of expenditure, from
6,150,0001. in 1835 ; to 7,168.0001. in the present year. But
look at borne the effective force in the United Kingdom,
in 1845, was 34,489 men ; on the Ist of January lest, it was
64,204, being an increase of 30.000, or more than 95 per
cent. This number was 20,000 mire than we had in the
worst times of Sidrneuth and eleetlereaeh. (Hear, he lc.)
Since that time the increased mantles f transmitting troops
by railway had greatly increased the effiitiency of any ex-
isting force. We had also, a well or.ranised police
in all our large towns. Far bet er would it be to
expend this sum in educating the p.oip'e, removing the
sources of crime, and increasing the comfort. of the poor.
(Cheers.) The cost iif these 30 000 men, including officers,
could not be less than 3,200,000/. a year; eel thus a reduc-
tion of three millions in the exruditine might be effected
by reducing the army ,n the same heel, se it was on during
toe minis•ry of the right him. member fir Tamworth.
(Hear.) This would not be an extravagant reduction, for
the service would be quite as efficien• as it was then, or
more so ; and it would at once give A surplus of income
over expenditure. Under tee plea of maintaining the
powi r and protec ing the commerce of the country, it had
been the policy of both whist mid tory goy. temente to inter-
fere in every conflict, to meilitie w.th the interne' affairs of
tee ry nation, and seize every oppertunity of extending our
vas; colial empire. Look et the Itioory of this c untry for
the last ten or fifteen vear.. We had commenced by
senieng our buccaneers to Portugel ; then we sent legions to
Spain, to maintain the rights of tee virtuous Christina,
while others fought with equal s al io the cause of Don
Carte. (Hear.) then we intertered in Syria. Meanwhile
w • contrived by mismanagement up r. he'lion amongst
the peaceable inhabitants of Canada ; then we drove forth
into flee 3,000 boors at the Cape of Good Hope, and it was
now found that we had lavisbed a illion on the Kaffir war.
Mese.) In the meantime we hamd eitended stir empire by
frying claim to the whole of Australia, a territory nearly as
large as Europe itself; then we luel declared ourselves the
sovereigns of the two islands of New Zeal ind, and sent them
a foolish governor and an intend ary bishop. (Hear, hear.)
Then we had rushed into Central A-ia, invaded the hunting-
ground% of the Ameers of &hide, induced the Sikhs to cross
their frontier, and then destroyed their army. (Hear and no.)
Then we had ravaged the coasts of Chine, and levied con.
tributiune from them became they ri fused to receive our
poisonous opium. (lieu.) Labuas aid Ilona King were
our latest acquisitions; we had an itching for Borneo ; and,
if the advice of the noble lord the m .tuber ler Lynn were
flowed, we should be running a tilt with Spam for the
island of Cuba. (Cheer., and laughter ) These were at
(wee the causes end the consequenas of cur vast war expen-
diture ; for the two stood to each ode rin the relation of
cause and effect alternately. The establishments begot the
exploits, end tbey requir, d the establishments. The right
hon. baronet (Sir R. Peel) had said that these exploits were
pupu ar with the service. That was easy to believe . but
were they popular with the people of England? (hear.)
If so there was no remedy; we must pay for them and pay
dearly. The objection that the income tax was a
we tax wee perfectly valid; it had been and
still would be a war tee ; , farthing of it
had been expended in these petty wars. (Hear, bear.)
The only alternative for the oensidi ration of parliament and
the country was a reduction of espeaditare or an increase of
taxation. In supporting the fu' mess he should not be incon-
sistent in voting for the motion of the hon. member for

to
itielt
to
neMwedr. DchleeSltriAngYLl received that aelenowledgment ghee
the same or Mr. GLADE TONE.—We failed in farming them.
Montrose, which merely implied that the house agreed to the foreign power, as they had prem.:seal les 04.0 in 1842, oh,
idneernilitx.thhiesthyeerariitosihtuplresa present fenornmti,nenctuedryinin
some other form, or whether muse other tax should be sub-
stituted for it. cheering) He believed it to be the tact. (Reamed
Mr. W. MILES said that the question before the house cheering.) It was in 1846, after the mischief tmdß
appeared to him to be whether the stare and situation of the the waifs was done, that the right honourable baronet
country was such as to justify the propuitiou of the govern- consummated his policy. He then repealed the cons law
meet : and upon this he came to a diffament conclueion from tberehy reducing the revenue mein millions more; and met
the hon. baronet who had just spoken; fw he thought that =saki oeM atter doing so he quitted his office. (Greet
the government were right in asking what was necessary to laughter and cheering.) In so retiring the right hom
meet the exigencies of the ceuntry. (Hear, hear.) He be. baronet addi eased his constituents in emenuatioa of Ina
heated that the Increase which bad talo n place in their este- policy. He defended it by reference te the state of the em
(Crest cheer_
hishments would add to the stability oi their situation, and venue. Now, he (Mr. Disraeli) believed that a great
contribute to the maintenance of pence. He thought pervaded that position. lie believed that the state feetifilitlLl
nsroedt b
the
proposition
pc.::,
Litio"nakftitenhrgat:tt.tee :altamenemformir-•
that in revising their taxation they should look for the revenue -as no test of the soundness of commercial pollee'
ilienotPts"wt'it;h co"udntritesu which oppeesd"u-
ordinary revenue from duties upon imports; but at the (Hear, hear.) He believed the teat of commercial me.'
same time, seeing that the system of free trade was nothing else than commercial prosperity. polity
had not had a fair trial as yet, he did not think it ilionfire.t)bl:7hlosedletisloerelt:myriegdm:wbe;
would be proper to draw any mien nce as to whether the ft:. T:.mwoharthil infeverha
.wasiveparepaaredsiwtoactafig:e
n.opeeelr_
policy pursued by the right hon. baronet the member for the tariffs
con:no:rya
hbaysingfreefre,
to it hostile tariffs, would be diminished to the evict extent
Tamworth was right or not. (Hear, bear.)
githee. prereeeieouens andeattamtis no' tiOitt
fort.reit wouldiatn:i,an,
tstige;a7s
,t lint
tot
oggrovitter
one:
0,..m.1i
roe
tr et
latter,
all, da,nh:a,shaken,
moren
nedno:fnoiatuns second
anal
labour
thbo.
:t inneint
is
me. x
ic hil
euno
tionin g e se:,
Mr. BROTHERTON would not enter into a discussion
of the merits of different taxes ; but lie was couvinced that
the income tax was unequal, and m:ght he made more just
than it was at present. (Hear, hear.) With resio cc to the
question whether they would grant the tax fur a year
ii
7:bouludr, ~:,:itrhaeft.ertLyeearqu,ahnativtey to n
I.
ur three years, the excellent speech ot the henourable
commerce well nigh at a stendetill. Even in 1814 the •
member for Westbury hail such au effect upon
his mind that he came to the conclusion of voting
with the government.
Olr. CARDWELL wished very briefly to explain the
hon. baronet told the home that he had hopes of f • t
reasons which induced him to support the propene fn of the
government on this occasion. Those masons were based on stet. were Riwi„ way.
What was the fact? 'T
two coraideratione : one, the duty he owed to the erne mem
Imielation of the Kollverein had become more h 'bigot' flies I
mantas community he had the honour to represent ; the than ever, and that the lastof
other ari.ing from a sense ot what was due to the credit and message the President of
the United Stales comforted the manu nla
security of this great country. H states
Ile knew how much theurses of the
with the assurance that their protection, though
of prosperity, was aggravated by its iroposioon in this period before, for that they had now an average ad colorer -
of unprecedented depression ; but, looking to the financiel tinn of not lees then 28 per cent. (Hear, hear.)
II proton,
condition of the country, and to the exigencies of the impe- Prune., : the right hon. baronet had told the ho ' umi:
vial exchequer, and considering how much the revival of only obstacle to a friendly treaty of trade with France that
-
trade depended on the state of the treasury, he found it ins- her commercial and agricultural aratocr my : that • faw,'" I f
possible to withhold his support from the government. was now quelled. Whet preopect had we of a frienalfy l'
(Hear, hear.) He would reject the put year altogether from treaty at the hands of Louis Blanc, and the sovereign people'-
comideration, and consider the financial position in which they who now reigned at farms? (Hear, hear.) The commercial
stood at present. If Ise understood theChaneellor ofthe Exche- distrees, and the financial eusbetriegonent whieh r oe
quer's statement, be would not have on hand, on the .sth of heavily upon England, were, in his opinion, to bep eatir I
A era next, a larger sum than between 6,000,0001. and ascribed to the new system, and he
was
per?
lt Tin:ol
7,000,0001., whereas, to carry him through the quarter, he that if this system were not distinctly abandoned, Ist
ought to have about 9,000,0001., and he must therefore de- barramment :and distress could become fatal. Look et tie
prod on the bank for assistance to the amount of between scene of the noble industry which produced thest pl
two and three millions. They had before them also the esti- facture of the country. Whet wee the condition ‘f
..I"pops..t.
mates for the coming year, and they had no reason to expeot lation—what the mate of its trade ? The "'al'
that the deficiency would be lessthan 2,000.0001. Therefore, of its population was such, that tho beeriness of a .:11
by the sth of April, 1849, between four millions and five mil- ing of deb gate, et Manchester the other day, resolmet.
lions of money would be wanted. With regard to the ex- itself into the formation of a committee to consider the bat
penditure, he thought that a great deal might be done ter means of emigration for the surplus hands to the Csibd
the depressed energies of the country by a reduction in that states. (Hear, hear.) Another most significant docetnent
respect. (Hear, hear.) Could any person suppose, had been put iota lite ha-id—an account of the number of
However, that this expenditure could be reduced persons relieved in Manchester as paupers in the }earlier=
in an instant, so that it could have a &et before last and the last year. In the year ending February,lB47
the sth of April. 1849? Part of the expenditure had been the number of persons so relieved w., 114,01(1, the poor rani
already incurred, nod they were left no option in the levied in Manchester amounting to 19,2131.; in the veer
matter. With regard to the great works of fortification and ending February, 1848, the number of permits ?dived e ' was
the works in their naval arsenals, a great retrenchment 149,5(14 1 the amountofrate, 45 0001.
. ,an
might be expected when they were completed. But taking When be spoke of the decre :re in our exports, hon. gentle-
' the most favourable view, and hoping the best for a revive' men opposite might say, as they said to the right hon.
of trade and a good harvest, the most 'sanguine could not but member for Tamworth, that experts were no criterion of
feel that by the s:lt of April, 1849, that Chancellor of the prosperity ; but, at all events, the fact was that our uports
Exchequer must ask for the assistance of the Bank is the to the countries of the Old World had fallen off—fallen off
amount of between four and five millions. Was that a most consie.e rahly—fallen off to the extent of not less than
state of things which ought to be continued ? (Hear.) In two-and-a-half millions sterling. (Hear, hear.) True, then,
justice to the commercial interests of the country, which had been au inerillSe of exports to the United States, smoost-
always sympathised with the state of its finances, wasft
ing in value to two millions ; but he was informed on the
right that such a state of things should be allowed to endure r very highest authority, that as far as the Lancashire et-
(Meat.) But it was said that they should raise the inc tine porters—and he believed the case nearly general—wets
U.% in a more equal manner. The hon. member for Wset • concerned, they had nit received, up to the present moment,
beim, in his powi rful speeeh, made • misteke in laying that more than 67 per cent. of the in ottley. (limo beat)
no deduction was allowed for depreciation of machinery. He Among other cap trimente, the right fem. haionet hue tried
was as anxious as the hon. member for Cockerm ,nth (Mr. his " 'prentico hand" at the smear duties. With what snot to
Reesman) to avoid all inequality, and obviate all injustice our trading industry ? In the 18 treadle pteo dog the
in the tax. But the present law had this advatitege, as was change in these duties (from Feb. 1815 to Am. lelO), we
truly said by the noble lord, that it alit' not put iii farce thee exported of the produce of our manufmturing indoor-le to
minute system of inquisition which would be flummery if the West Indies, Mauritius, Bombay, Madras, andeole.utta,
the system of income tax proposed by the hon. member for 5,797,0001., leaving, after allowing for the price of the coma
Cockennouth were put in practice. That system was not material, nearly tour millions sterling for wages sad
free from objection on the ground of inequality. Take, for profits. In the 18 moth following the change,
instance, the case of a person receiving an annuity of 1601. a he exports th these places amounted only
year terminable with life, such a person would have to pay `47650.000,
a leaving, for wages and profits, Tall
Bd. in the pound, sm.ilete gentleman receiving an ermemous 2,600.000 g. (Heir, hese.) What was the counteract*
income in Westminster Hall, would have to pay only 4d. in advantage that had then hell out to the menufacterime
the pound. Ato .re monstrous injustice could not be intro- classes of Lancashire? What had been the greed remit of
ducedOand it Wa..me which was foreign to the law as it stool' the promised increase oo exports to the sugar-mowing states?
at present. (Hear, ha ar.) As far es his experience enabled Why this : to Brazil, Porto Rico, and Cuba there were et-
him to torus an opinion, nothing was so muck complained of ported in the first 18 months 2,400,0001., leaving tor waits
as the inquisitorial nature of the tax. (Hear, hear.) But that and profits 1,700,0001. In the latter 18 months the espwY
would be greatly aggravated under the plan prop.ned by the thither bad attaiind the tremendous increase of 2,800,000 e,
hon. member for Corkermouth. Under the present law a leaving for profits and wages, at the higher price of cotton
person who turned a capital of 100,0001. a year had but to 1,g60,0301. (Hear, heir.) Comparing thcadvatitnre wtitit
make a single n turn un ler schedule B. Part ot this might had been derived by the operatives of all classes from the re-
be borrowed moues., for which tie had given s. curity. but dection of the sugar duties with the absolute losses which
, the tax gatherer naked him no questions, he took the 7d. its had been sustained by them, it would be fund that, sop-
the pound, and left him to deduct the cerreepending amount meting every hand empluped consumed 2311 be. of sugar, the
from his creditor. But under the plan of the hen. member amount gained by the reduction of the sugar duties was
f.r Cockermouth, a single return would not satiety 68,5421., whilst the loss incurred in wages was 1,161,6951,
the tax gatherer. He must be shown all the elm so that in en et the operatives of Laticashae had beeerobbed
ments from whieh the capital was drawn, and the precise of upwards of 1,100,0001. by the advantage of being able to
amount of income derived from each portion. This would coneume cheap sugar. (Hear.) In that excellent gaud
be an amount of inquisition to which ho would venture to publication, entitled " Burn's Commer. Oa Glance,"
say the commercial interests of this country would not long it was stated that during the last year tbe ditai.
submit (Hear, hear.) He would vote fur giving the Utz nution in the exportation of printed and plain edi-
tor three years instead of for one year, because the re was no cons to the sugar colonies of Great Britain amount-
probability that the deficiency in the revenue would he made ed to 70,390,586 yards. And these were the results
up in any of the two following years. And if of the commercial scheme of aggro duties acting upon the
they feted it only for a single year, wln" was British colonies. It had been asserted that the reason why
to become of trade in the mean time ? (Hear, hear.) the export of manufactured goods was smaller during the
If they did not make due provision for the replenishment of last years, was that the supply of cotton was very want. Be
the treasury what 'noel(' b, come of the confidence of coca- denied that there hod been any very serious falling off is
merce ? That commerce was built up on the confidence the supply of raw cotton, nor did the returns show any seek
wealth was reposed in their financial msnagement, sod itwas result. He could not forget teat the crop of cotton wee
for this reason, amongst others. that this country formed • greater by 440,001 bars in 1847 then it was in 1840 and 41. •
pillar for the whole commerce of the earth. The noble for i He would tell the house what was the cause of the fallint off
the m mbar for Lynn had said that he would reimp we the in the export of manufactured goods. That cause was to be
duties on those articles (mei which they had been removed. found in the fact that the recent alteration in the sugar
lie differed from the noble lord in that policy, and the hon. duties had operated fatally against the c Woe meedectutent
member for Somemetehire said, with a candour that did him and had diminished the demand .or their productions. In a
honour, that free trade had not had a fair trial. That was letter from New ()deem, he found it stand that the reduc-
e reason amoneen others to induce hiai to vote frl the tax Lion of the duties on foreign slave sugar had rem
for three years. lie knew this was not agreeable, but he such a stimulus to the production of sugar, that elan-Mbar
believed that the nmessities of the country required it. was transferred from the cultivation of cat t:in to theta(
" Gretiora posse vobis dicere satin beio : vera pro gratis sugar, and hence the future supply of rew cotton would am
loqui si useum non moverit ingenium necessitas cogit." cennarily be greatly diminished. (Hear, hear.) lie hod
(Cheer...) He could not take upon himself the resinntsihs" been asked if he was prepared to re-unieme the duty oaths
City of voting fur a motion thst would seriously *affect the import of raw cotton. To this he would reply that if it
commercial interests of the country- And in voting fee the could be ehewn to him that tee English manutsieturer had
proposition of the government he believed he would beet derived any. advantage from the &Wittiest ot the duty he
itimharge his duty ,o the country, and he should at all would be satisfied, and not seek to restore the duty ; bet h
events in doing so have the approbation of his own con- was certain that no such result could be shown. ToeriNfl
mieuce. (Cheers.) of raw cotton might be quoted to bear out the view wllo
Mr. DISRAELI eat that the hon. gentleman who had took of the question ; for whilst that article was quoted M
just spoken had lea out ot consideration the lent year—he 44. 4-16ths per lb., in the year 1845, before the duty ti
best knew why—when the commercial and trading interests taken off, it was cold at 4d. 8-16 the per lb., oa an avenre
of the country had been suffering from a depression which after he tariff had been altered by the right honounell
had been unknown in termer years. The hen. member fat baronet. (Hear, hear.) The facts whieh he bad cited had
Westbury, in his very able speech, made one or too obser- induced him to draw a conclusion, that the free:nada
vations which comprised him. lie declared that the were by no means unconscious of—namely
that during tlia
country had been enriched twenty-fold by the re- whole time that they were talking ot free trade they we
mission of the dusk a which had been effected by establishing a monopoly. The talk was of free node, bit
the right hon. baronet the member for Tamworth. the real question between the ootto t grower and the UMW
The return trios the property and income tax up to the sth facturer, was who could hold mat the longed.. The promo
of April, 1846, was 5,600,0301. The estimate of the return tioniats had always been taunted wick the asser.ion that
f a 18414 is calculated by the Chancellor of the Exch. quer as they had not proved their case • hut he thought that bh elted.)
5.200.0001- i showing a deficiency of 400.9001- Now if he mill- succeeded in effecting that object. (" Hear," anal laugter
tiplittd that by 34, as he had a right to do. it represented a lie had shown how the result of the right kin. bareuet's
felling off ion the national income of 13 702,0001. He made commercial policy had been ti occasion the whole loss of the
that calculation according to the etrieteet rale of ac- duties which he took off, and the additional loss to the
counts, and yet the hon. gentleman said the wealth country of the income tax. (Rear.) Ile had shear:how,
of the country had increased twenty-fold. (lime, hear.) in respect to the sugar duties, the operstivi a had aisOf
The meentser for Westbury had also called attention to an 68,0001., whilst they Met in weges 1,100,0001. He mighttO
increating commerce with France. If ho (Mr. Diemeli) told by the opposite side that the principles .0
were a politico-economist, he certainly should not cite our free trade had not had a fair trial. But
11!
trade with France as a very favourable example of a tree- Remitted that the doctrines ot the hon. member for the wed
trade system. Contrast our trade with France with our err riding of Yorkshire had received every trial to which they
lomat trade, aod how inferior would it not be found? were entitled, and they had also received ample refutatem
(Hear, hear.) Then the bon. gentleman had referred to The view which he and his par y took of the matter, Ins.
the natioualJebt, which he declared to have been re faced that free trade had ruined commerce, and that the boon
01
,20 millions since the iiicome tax was enterced. But the cheap sugar had met the menutectorine chimes soon .
hon. member (ergot that the income tax since 1842 had ten times what they had gained by it. NV as the country 10
brought to the revenue nearly 33,000,0001., and the China set k for its consolation under the present tiaancial profs,'
money amounting to 6,000,0001. (Hear, hear.) No wonder, sition of the government in the pee sager
lid 0
, iodate', that the national deot was reduced. (Cheers ) But, sure of 1817, whieh the right bon. bart. (Str R. Peel' ,
, said the bon. member, our trade is nothing lo reluctantly 'imported. Ile would rot go limo the details 4
, said
ea the trade in France. What cud the the tariff as the right hon. baronet had done. Ile tee a
French King at the opening of the late chambers? Certainly he had sufficiently shown the causes of the prevent deo .
his II ejery 's speech anything but bore out the and distress that prevailed at Matichester to have origineted
hon. member's view. But then the hon. member started a in the new commercial schema. He would not visit us the,
propoition that all the taxes did and ought to con e out of minister the consequences of the adverse ercunestanees 01
the innustry of the country. That was a poeition which he which they had been the vietirae--(husd laugnter)e. ar
(Mr. Dierae.i) was prepared to deny. Taxation
ought to was he diepise4 to ascribe to the right hon. bermiet (Sit n't
com
come tram the productions of the foreigner, not from the in- Peel) the moral consequences of the fatal error heathad _
dustry of our own people. (Cheers.) Again, the hon. mined. (Continued laughter.) There th. y Monw
member r went on to ray, that the erint:ples carried out by ing to the oppoaite benches) who were ropes:
the ministers in 1845, were the principles that ministers ad. Bible for the present state of the cowmen. snl,
vacated in 1842. On that point he (Mr. Disraeli) was again manufactures ot the country. (Laughter and sheets-)
,at issue with the member for Wes.burye Althouith the But, as it was impossible to foresee what th mois,7_
ice one tax was brought ferwurd on principles whicn were would do if it were not checked in its career, he could if
M awake. lb'
not clearly defined, the tariff was certainly propounded upon say that showed rotectionists oweht to be hi e
em,
• principle that MOO particularly, clearly, and explicate set fiaanCee a deficit of 8,000,0001., h wes tne,er:
forth. 'The destruction of prohibition, and the reduction of amount that the right hon.baronet had deprived there nl:
elm mice duties, were measures accompanied with a notifiee- of by his commercial policy. The greet minister had_ ull
bat the
too to the house that the government were in corremuni. of lightening the springs of industry —(Cheers)
som
ence with foreign courts and with great traders in foreign springs were broken, the machine would no longer 1;
countries, in order to secure some sort of reciprocity. But (Hear, bear.) The country had been told that it
how too "
in 184.5 nothing of than sort occurred. The policy of the distress arose from overtrading, but if so, s,, he
Ipresent government was mimetic; the policy of the govern- that the right honourable baronet had recomme Oeos
....
, ment of that (fay was not mimetic, it was Cobden'e. (Hear, commercial system, upon the mound that it would
e "..!
hear, and cheering.) What were the circumstances ? In reliewed impetus to commerce, ,others te same tam
r:.l, nef.
the interval between 1612 and 1815 a 'rest confederation accuses the manufacturers and of ov:tenter:On
had arisen; a confederation very powerfully organised, con- (Hear.) He (Mr. Diemen did not consider nen.
was the
ducted by very able men—men who concentrated all their been any over-trading. If there had been, whtenwsO r,„ :
energies and knowledge on the work. That confederation cause of it but the gent minister who had lie
0.. ed
propagated principles so commerce totally different from the springs of industry. ( Hean" and laughter.) wiainerin, wse
opinions of Sir H. Peel in 1842. Their opinions were not that commerce which the free traders had comp . n c 0.,.
the opinions of Mr. Pitr, or of Lord Shelburne, upon the o cabinet', crab'd, confined," and which thwung.!.7
adoption of which Sir R. Peel had prided himself in 1842. honourable baronet had released ? Wherets
_ee
They were not the opinions of free trade, which Wandering far away, and atment froze 170;
was a principle he (Mr, Disraeli) was always preptrod haunts! The whole of the mischief had been n
in Balla
to support. (Oh, oh, and a laugb.) Yes: be was a free- gained by a work which be had uo hesitate:. _
___ bole
trader, bet he was not a free-booten (Loud cheers.) The was the greatest effort of imagination tineasidtsucheve7poyme
gentlemen opposite were free-bootem• (Renewed cheers.) witnessed in this country.
He
meant
the
IC the right holt.
They Joel down as their principle to "buy in the cheapest by the import committee. (Hear, hear.)
.....h). er the
and sell in the dearest market." He denied that that was baronet (Sir R. Peel), or the noble lord (J. K
i moment
the princi le of free trade. The principle of free trade was Manchester free-traders, would now at the preTeeen
barter. (Cheers.) Another of their principles was, "Take come forward and frankly admit that they had bee_ i's7:e
care of the imports and the exports will take care of them- in their commercial policy, then he woul.4.areebeTe;Tight, es
selves." That was another principle equally opposed, as he tax • but
, persisting as they all three did
Litre reeentatioess
(Mr. Disraeli) conceived, to free-trade principles. But those could only my that, taking them on theirotin,,_,,i
were the principles the right hon. baronet adopted in 1845. there was no neoessity whatever for gran fe s‘ e
tim.7-..„
(Loud cheers.) In the interval the government, ot which taxation. He took the evidence reported 07
bed dm
he was the head, had mat produced a single treaty with a committee for his guide, as tha right non • baronet