The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-04 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—TUE•n•T, MAT 3.
TIN Loan Caancat.ton took his seat at 4 o'elsck.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
Tna CiLTSTAL Pat tea.—By the Earl of 811AFTES-
saURY, from a chapel io Kingslaad, against the opening
of the Crystal Palace on Sundays.
MATNUOTH.—By the Earl of EGLINTON, from a
free church in the count) of Ayr, against the continuance
of the grant to Maynocith.
Tit kNtIrOIITATION. —By the Archbishop of CANTER-
BURY, from Melbourne pod another plan, against UMW
portation to the Australian colonies.
BURGHS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Lord PANIIUBE moved the second reading of this'
bill, to which he apprehended there would not be one
opposition, inasmuch at it involved no principle and altered
no practice, the only object being to remove some inem-
'lenience, which occur at the election of town councillors.
The bill was then read • second time.
CHARITABLE TRUST BILL.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, in moving the second!
reading of this 1011, said it might almost appear to be •
scandal to the country that it should have fallen to the
lot of any one in the year 18.33, to move the
second reading of each • bill, its object being to introduce
an etlicieat mode of ariminiateriag and makiag useful,
charitable trusts in this country. .The subject had been
so often before parliament, that it would be a waste of
time to go into any great detail as to what had been dose.
It wee now more than 3.) years sieve his noble and learned
friend (Lord Brougham). who had been so distinguished by
Wens' and ability in reforming sham of this nature, bad!
Ant directed attention to the abuses of Comities. la 18181
he Int obtained the act of parliament which sonetituted
the original charitable commissioners. The superin-
tending board at present consisted of two or three
paid, and two or three unpaid members: but it he.
coming necessary to make a change in the constitution '
of the judicial tribunal, the government had taken into its
consideration whether an important and useful change
might not be made alto in the constitution of the board.
The duties of the board would be to preserve • general
superintendence over all the charities in the kingdom,
without any expense. It would be made imperative en the
trustees of all charities to keep regular accounts of all re-
ceipts end expeadinues, great or small, and annually to de-
posit • copy with the clerk of the County Court, awl trims-
MA another copy to the board la Losdoa, where it would
always be acesesible to all parties. He believed that would
have • most material effect towards correcting • gnat
deal of abuse. Niue-tenths of the abuses were
the result of ignorance, and not latended fraud,
and when account' were regularly sailed for, sad the
attention of competent parties directed to them, who could
point ,set erron,the paean abeam woold eosin be corrected.
(Hear, hear.) But the beard would ales be Plied ea to
perform another function, which would be very useful, and
was, he believed, reassaineaded by the 0011BRielitill. It
often happened that trustee' who were perieMly kismet did
nut know what wane they ought to take ; and it was pro-
posed that they shauld be at libert the meretarysomina-
niceties with the board—to ark their— advice. The beard
might direct them what to do, 'and should indemnify
them until they were correeted by • ja:icial tribunal.
The bill proposed to give the board power to act in four
enumerated cases • Ist, where the objects of the charity had
wholly (ruled, sad it had become impossible to fulfil
the intentions of the founder; 2ndly, where the object
had not failed, but where the charity had failed, as in the
cases he had mentioned, to fulfil, what mast be presumed to
be, the intentions of the founder, namely, to do good ; 3rdly,
when there were two or more similar, or *early similar,
charities, each inadequate for the purpose intended, but
which if united might do good; sod, holy, where
a charity had been founded above 60 years, bat
where the results were totally inadequate, in which
case it woe proposed that the board might sanc-
tion • different application of the fonds. (Hear, hear.)
Now, under what safeguards was it proposed to give these
powers? First of all, if the trustees concurred in the
scheme for altering the aoplicatiou of • particular charity,
that scheme would be laid on the table of either house of
parliament, and if neither house by a resolution made
within 30 days dissented from it, it would become the same
as if authorised by a private act. If, on the other hand, the
trustees did not concur, then the new scheme was proposed
to be laid on the table of either house, and that parliament
was to be authorised to do what it did in eases under the
Inelosure Colnaliasioo, namely, to pass a public act. (Hear,
hear.) Of name, the board ought to ecia-ist of persons the
moat eminently responsible; and their conduct *right to be
completely before the public. He proposed, therefore,
that it should consist of the Lord President of the Council
and other members of the Cabioet, with some other
gentlemen not holding that position, bet probably
members of the House of Commons. To than would be
added two legal gentlemen of high character, upon whom
of course the more laborious part of the work would fall.
Probably more would be required, but it was thought best
to commence with only two. In the former bill it had been
proposed that the expense of the commission should be de-
frayed by • small tax upon all the charities; but when that
plan came to be investigated it was found to be almost im-
practicable. Then were no fewer than 28,000 charities
under 30/. a year, of which 13,000 were under 51., and many
thou ands more were even seder 21. Now just imagine
the difficulty of collecting, my twopence in the pound from
all those smaller chanties. (Hear, hear.) Of course the
thing was out of the question. Again, it had been pro-
peed to levy the tax only on the larger charities; but
that would be hardly fair. Indeed the larger charities had
protested against the proposal on the ground that they
would derive very little benefit from the measure.
Her Majesty's government, them, looking at the question
merely in an economical point of view, and at the probable
beneficial results to the community, bd. thought that the
expose, which could not be more than 3,0001. to 10,0001.,
should be borne by the country. (Hear, hear.) Objections
had been urged against nadir* banisters into the country
to *amiss arbitrary and inquisitorial Isaetion• No doubt
that was • thilealty, but we were living in a world sur-
rounded by diMeulties ; sad the good that would probably
accrue would far overbalance any objections of that kind,
especially as the inquiries were such me it was absolutely ne-
cessary should be made. Beside*, la the bill of Lord
Lyndhurst then wee • presieely similar proposition, except
that the barristers were called 'napalms instead of com-
missioners. He same now to the judicial tribunal to be
employed la these mow lie proposed that in cases under
301. they should be referred to the judges of the count
courts. He was not without apprehension that they would
nut at first dieeharge the duty in all eases quite
satisfactorily. In the former bill it was proposed that all
cases between 301. aad 1001. should be referred to the Mas-
ten in Chancery; but he peptised that all above 301.
should go at ease to the Court of Chancery. He proposed,
however, that the schemes arranged by the judges of the
county courts, amt) Men appointment of trustees by them,
should always be plead edvertised ; and that no scheme
should come intlo until it had received the sanc-
tion of the beard. Wilt these safeguards, they need not
apprehend dim ire pia Toga Rttive nee to any material in-
coastwise's. Hei dmjulpeeei that fund* might be trans-
it/redo wham sammay. to aScial trustees and that all the
nmenalle anal be transmitted to the board. These were
tae piled* Statures of the bill, which he should be happy
saisilt le a saint encomia-., if thought desirable, and
he trnshad, thinalma. emir lordships woald have no
objection the seam& reading. (Hear, hear.)
_ _

The Duke a
pavement as that a leas par._
The Bari a CHICHESTER thanked tbe aebli and
karma Ma he bagging i die measure, and be thought
that In mho the essomive parses proposed to be given to
tM semsdednome email be an net of prudence.
Lord BROTIOHAII upilimla Or bill, and observed
that it was Impiedbis W tersosie Eto osontry in any circa-
ties elan. mesa* gbh MiSeimals Io dm Moon of the
ornandedise. owl padiaraissy semmllless, which had eat
ors Ibis goals& Them libisieba sot say acted directly
es to ad oil oil ibedlieslosibbli they referred, but Sad
redly upon a vat salsa of ether mom where the very
mm** of *thy bad podspel reform (Hear.)
He beloved that im a majority of imensies the unseen had
see boss guilty of wilful alma et milmomelia of the
Sandsr but tie evils complained of hod mhos boa neg-
ligees% him loserance, sad him eisaminers (saar.)

eassidend the bill an Int-

Lord ST. LE °HARD 8 did not "pee the second reed-
ing • bet there were various potato us the bill to which he
sho
uld hesitate long before he gave his consent. The
board would *mist of the goveraamst for the time being,
sad they wadi inimitably make the business before them
a party speedos ; or they would leave it to the two barris-
ters ; and thou the powers proposed wen such as could not
safely be committed to any individuals whatever. (Hear,
hear.) In the first place, when the objects of the charity
had failed, a very important question would arise, namely,
whether the property bad been so dedicated to charity that
it mast be applied to some other charitable purpose, or
whithet it did sot revert to Its original doper ? (Hear.)
Again, with respest to cases where it might be thought
that the funds could be more beneficially applied, be sou
of opinion that the proposal was fraught with danger. They
must remember that the property in such eases had been
dedicated to the purples for which it had bees given by
persona in wham there wee an absolute dominion over it,
and that the law had allowed them to appropriate it to the
purposes they bad sheen to select. Where it bad been
shown that the monk had astleen btaseficiai parliament bad
allowed a r 5 "MUM Ws; end it should be !meas-
.&
bored that it was ht the we of large charities that it
would be worth w for persons ti interfere. Hs was far
frees saying that tams great tribunal might not be erected
to which Imilk SIM might be referred instead of their
coming helm paellaweast; but to commit such an autho-
rity to this heard would be a greater infringement of the
rights and law of property than had ever before been
attempted. (Hear, hear) Of coons the matter could be
discussed in • select committee, but be could not let the
woad thefts per without offering his protest against this
part of the mean,., mad without drawing the attention of
their lordships to the stringent nature of the powers pro-
posed to be conferred. (Hear, hear.) He had himself sat
arm the commission, and he must Omens by the way that
the noble and learned lord (Lord Brougham) had not been
a very regular attendant—(laughter)—but he had sat arm
the commission, and thought it only fair to confirm what
the noble and learned lord had said respecting the blame to
be attached to trustees. )(any of the cases were where
there was a mall rent Charge upon a large property, and
where, not having been claimed for many years, doubts had
arisen as to which part of the estate it was chargeable, and
whether the Attorney-General ought to institute proceedings
Lord BROUGHAM (who in the interim had been hold-
ing a conversation with • gentleman at the bar of the house)
amid that 'kakis' could equal the powers of imaginathin
, sztby the nohlo and learned lord. (Laughter.) He
.e..) had consulted a member of the COMI3II/.•

don, who had nanadrd him of an arrangement that he
(Lord Brougham) and Lord St. Lronards should attend in
tarn, and his (the commissioner's) impression was that he
(Lore Brougham) had 'twirled the oftener of the two.
11 Earl TALBOT observed that he knew of a charity whieh
had been put to an expense of near 2001. to appoiat a new
trustee. Ile hoped the noble and !ranted lord would
make provision to prevent charities being put to such as
ei'lbebill was then and a second tine.

CATHEDRAL APPOINTMENTS BILL.
Earl GRANVILLE moved the Second re adi ng of this
bill.
The Bishop of SALISBURY supported the motion.
The motion was agreed to.

SIIERIFF AND COMMISSARY COURTS
(BERWICKSHIRE) BILL.
On the motion of Lord rsantiza this bill was read a
second time.

LUNATICS' CARE AND TREATMENT BILL.

On the order of the day for bringing up the report on
this bill,
Lord St. I.EONARDS said this bill would make eaten-
sire alterations with regard to the administration of the es-
tates of lunatics. The expenses were proposed to be raised
almost wholly by a graduated scale, according to the amount
of the property to be administered. Instead of separate
commissions of lunacy, there would be a general commis-
sion, which would save great expense. In some eases •jury
would be required, but in others, where that could be safely
done, the fury would be dispensed with. After there had
been a finding by the commission, power was given to dis-
pense with a grant from the crown, which hail been
always necessary for the lunatic, and which led to very
greatexpense. Thatexpense would now altogether ins great
manure he put an end to. After the muter had mode his
report, objections to the report or confirmations to the re-
port were swept away, but perfect power was given to the
party to bring before the Chancellor any objection he might
have. One great source of expense in these cases hod been
the inquiry as to the next of kin. The Lord Chancellor had
power given him by the bill to dispense with the attendance
of the next of kin. In that way a great saving would be
effected. Ica many cases, too, the Lord Chancellor
weal& bays the power of making an order without the
afflandenee of either solicitors or counsel. Great care was
Liken by the bill that there should be a sufficient visitation
of the boa* under the care of the court, end then the
bill proeseded to make provisions which he treated would
be fouled beneficial to the estate. There was also a power
to charge a sum on acontingent interest for the maintenance
of a lunatic, to be paid out of the sum when the contiagency
should arise. There were cues in which a lunatic had a
small sum of money, not sufficient to provide
for his maintenance, and he had friends who
would be willing to provide for the maintenance
if the capitol were delivered up to them. The bill gave
power to the Lord Chancellor to order that to be done.
Then it very often happened that the head of a faind'y was
struek'with lunacy, and the family was left without money
though there might be money in the house, or a consider-
aide balance at the banker', but they could not touch either
the one or the other. The bill gave power to the Lard
Chancellor to deal with those cases. It also gave power in
eases of partnership to direct a sale of the partnership pro-
perty, and to direct the winding up of the partnership
concerns. Power mu also given to execute powers over
property when that was necessary for the benefit of the
lunatic. He trusted, therefore, without going further into
the provisions of the bill, that it would be found to operate
well. The neat bill was a bill to consolidate and amend
the law in relation to county asylums. The experience of
many years had been brought to bear on this bill. A great
number of communications had been received with regard
to the provisions of this bill from all parts of the
country, and he thought he might say that every
one of the suggestions made had been considered.
Under this bill cuts of lunatics like Mr. Feargus O'Connor
would be met; these being persons who were not destitute,
and who wandered about in a state of insanity to their own
manifest danger and to the danger of the public at large ;
but sufficient precautions were provided, while they would
be taken into safe custody, by an easy process, that their
property would not be suffered to be misappropriated or
mismanaged. With regard to the commissions of lunacy,
some alteration', tae result of the experience and observa-
tion of many years, were now proposed. One difficulty was
met which bad led to great inconvenience. It was now
provided that when a person was suddenly afflicted by lu•
nary so as to become dangerous, he could not be taken to a
lunatic asylum except on the certificates of two medical men;
but under this bill the arrar.gement would be that in such
cases, requiring urgency, the certificate of one medical man
should suffice; but, again, proper caution would not be
neglected, for it would be provided that not later than
three days after such detention, two medical men should be
called in, and should be required to furnish a certificat: as
to the state of mind of the patient. These were provisions
which,lhe thought, would amount to great improvements,
by getting rid of teem' meekest inconveniences. Another
point was with reord to persons who were in fact not lone-
, ties, but who were detained in asylums under old certifi-
cates. This bill would give the Lord Chancellor power in
such eases to require the persons detaining such alleged
lunatics to furnish a general account of their conduct ; and
this was a provision which, in more eases than their lord-
ships would be willing to conceive possible, would
at once show, if there was improper detention,
what was the cause of it ; the cause being,
he believed, the conspiracy of other persons to
obtain and enjoy those alleged lunatics' property. This
bill, which might be riaaarded as soother recommenda-
tion, would entirely do away with the exceptional position
hitherto occupied by Bethlehem Hospital. (Hear, hear.)
He was bound to say that the governors of that hospital
had not shown the slightest objection to this bill ; and the
fair inference, which it was but just to state, was that they
were not afraid of the light of day being thrown on that
institution, and that they were willing that it should be
visited, and examined, and controlled and improved just
like any other lunatic asylum in the country. This mesa-
mire would, therefore, as a whole, he thought, give a new
tone to the administration of lunacy, protect it from its
abuses, and give to lunatics every benefit and every ears
which Puttee and benevolence could suggest. (Hear,
hear.) There was, however, one duty in connexion
with this subject, which devolved specifically upon the go-
vernment, and to which he would earnestly call their atten-
tion. He referred to the immediate necessity of a measure
with respect to the criminal lunatics of this country. (Hear,
hear.) The law did not stand well on this subject; and if
the government would do its duty, and he sou far from say-
ing that as yet they had neglected the duty, there was every
reason to hope that our administration with regard to cri-
minal lunatics would be more perfect and satisfactory than
that of any other country in Europe. (Hear.) Provision
must be made for the separate care and maiatenance of cri-
minal lunatics; sad the expense, be believed, would be much
leas than their lumbibip generally were in the habit of sup-
posing. The oesstay was already at considerable expense
in this respect; andl nese further charge, with a proper dis-
tribution, having 01111 asylum for the north, and another for
the south, in addition to the accommodation at Bethlehem,
would provide all that was necessary to a perfect system.
There was one class of the so-called criminal lunatics who
must be treated with great caution—he alluded to those un-
happy women who, after childbirth, and being in a state of
mental aberration, committed, a crime he would not call it,
but a deed, at which humanity shuddered. (liar, hear.)
These women ought to be sent to hospitals, and taken
every possible care of, but as matters now stood they were
treated as criminals, and tried for infanticide. (Hear,
hear.) He need not now press these subjects farther
on their lordships' attention. He would probably
have taken the course which he was now taking
had his noble Wend (Lord Derby) remained in
care ; and be trusted that the noble lord who
now conducted the government, would take as deep
an interest in the question. His being in or out of office
did not affect the question; it was a social question of the
deepest importance ; and it would be an honour to the
government, of whatever party, in whose administration
each measures became law. (Hear, hear.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR was understood to say
that he would not run the chow, by offering any com-
ments, of being supposed to divalent from any of the
views of the noble and learned lord; and he would content
himself by saying that he believed the bill would effect very
desirable amendments in the law.

The Earl of HARROWBY also peened upon their lord-
ships' attention the that there was of a change in
the kw Wrath* aefnlaal lewtics, and ha hoped her Ma-
Watientimat weld take the subject into their cowl-

Lord ST. LEONARDS enforced what he had before ob-
served, by stating that in his visits to lunatic asylums he
bad often heard lunatics complain to him of their being
thrown into the company of other lunatics convicted of
crimes; and there could lbe no doubt of their extreme aver-
gall to tomb a system. It was a great mistake to suppose
that because a maa had so far lost his mind as to be in eer-
, tain menses a Issatic, therefore he was not deeply impressed
with anything affecting moral conduct. (hear.)
The report was then received ; as also were the reports
on the Lunatic Asylums Bill and the report on the Lunacy
Regulation Bill. Third readings fired for Monday.

LAND IMPROVEMENT (IRELAND) BILL.
Lord CANNING, having proposed that the discumion on
this bill should be postponed until the stage of the report,
when he would bring up !amendments, an objection was
takes to the delay, and general objections were offered to
ths bill, by Lord Beaumont; but after a conversation be-
tween these noble lords, Lord Montesgle, Lord Wicklow,
Lord Clanricarde,asid Lord Dofferin, the motion was agreed
to; and the bill having been put in committee P.O forma,
was reported, and flied for an early third reading.
SOUTH SEA AND OTHER ANNUITIES COMMU-

TATION BILL.
Earl ORANVILLB, in moving the third reading of
the bill, said that be would not carry on►hie intention at
that boar (S o'clock), and in the then state of the house
(not ten peers were present) of making a statement of the
objects and scope of skis bill ; but if a discussion should be
entered on he would reserve to himself the right of offering
souse comments in the way of a reply. Their lordships
were aware they could not make any alterations in a bill of
this kind sent up from the Commons, and therefore, he ap-
prehended, a discussion was not desired ; and it might be
the less desired as what had fallen on the previous evening
from the noble and learned lord (Lord Bt. Leonard.) had
suggested that a supplementary meuure with regard to the
funds of suitors in Chancery might become necessary, and
the views of their lordships might then be expressed.
The Earl of DERBY put it to the noble earl if be was
takings becoming n.,ure with this bill ? Not a word had
been said on it since it had come up to their lordships'
house, although many noble lords had been desirous of ex-
pressing an early opinion of it ; and he now put it to the
noble lord, whether, in the then state of the house, it would
be decent that evening to read the bill a third time ? It
might be that their lordships had no right to alter the bill;

but really for it to hemmed stsb sikatio in this way would
be to attach to their lordships' house a character which he
might say, without using disrespectful terms, the noble earl
himself could not possibly d• sin.
Earl GRANVILLE was only emoultlng public soave-
' Diener, sad, as bethought:their lordships* wishes. Great
public inconvenience would be owed bydelaying.theparring
of • bill of this kind ; and if it was wished, he wield go
into a statemeat then, at once.
The Marquis of SALISBURY eaggeoted a delay until
to-morrow (this diy).
Lord REDESDALE.—Ah, but we don't lit on Wednee-
days. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of DERBY thought that if there wee to be a
supplementary measure, they ought to discuss the matter
so as to see what should be the character of that measure.
At all events, the Home of Lords ought to know what was
going to be done.
The Earl of WICKLOW thought the matter was clear.
The house wee thin, because every noble lord knew that
the home could not alter the bill; and the ssoble earl
(Derby) shared the responsibility for that this attendance
with the government. If the noble earl wanted a dismis
sion, it could be taken ; there the bill was, and the noble
President of the Council had said that he was ready to go
on, if it was wished.
Alter a few words from Lord MOXTZAGLS, to the effect
that though their lordships weld sot alter them bills, they
were, nevertheless, bound to Camel them, the discussions
in their lordshipe boom on the property tax being Instanced
as debates of great importance, end of great influence on
national finance, _ _

Earl GRANVILLE agreed to give a formal statement of
the bill, and proceeded acoordingly to describe its more fa-
miliar features—only three or four peers being present
when he began.
Lord MONTEAGLE must repeat his conviction that it
would be highly objectionable to allow this bill to pass a
third reading without discussion. Such a mode of proceed-
ing would hove been opposed to all principle, it would have
been contrary to public convenience, and therefore at the
risk of wearying their lordships, he must be allowed to
state now his objections to this most extraordinary bill. He
apprehended that no one would dispute the inspolicy of
meddling with the public securities without a settled or
certain motive, or without the prospect of obtaining in
return some corresponding and clear good, but
here they were going to add to the evil, by
meddling with the funds in a manner the most
absurd. The bill he was satisfied would inflict great in-
jury upon the public interest, because the three alterna-
tives which it held out to the landholder were not only dif-
ferent in principle, but in themselves antagonistic in spirit,
and it was utterly impossible to ascertain what good the
bill could produce, though it was easy to foresee what diffi-
culties it would lead to.

ii.;ii:oftiliViillinade some explanations, and

The bill was then read a third tins; and passed, and the
house adjourned at nine o'clock.

ROUSE OF UOMMONS.—TULSDAY, MAY 3.
The firzmuts took the chair at the mad lour.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.