The Express.
London, England, 1849-02-28 00:00:00

IRIqR POOR-LAW.

Lead STANLEY said that, pursuant to the notice whish
he had given to the noble marquis (Lansdowne) opposite,
he rose tor the purpose of asking for an explanation with
regard to the course pursued by the government as to the
amendment of the Irish poor law, and also with reference to
a discrepancy on the subject which he could ;not reconcile
with the course hitherto adopted in that and the other House
of Parliament. With a view to his being in order he should
conclude by moving that a message be 'sent to the other
House of Parliament requesting. a copy of the first report of
the edict committee on the Irish poor-law. A committee
bad been appointed in both houses of parliament, with
similar objects. Before the committee of their lordships'
house the noble marquis had laid certain resolutions, to
which, as be (Lord Stanley) understood, he declined to
pledge himself as measures on which the government had
come to a positive conclusion, and which related to various
subjects in connexion with the Irish poor-law, on which it
was fitting that infurir.ation should be received. That was a
very proper course; but he certainly was surprised to learn
that in the other house of parliament a mg different coulee
had been pursued. Although a comnii;to• in that house was
appointed, and controlled to a certain extent by her Ma-
jesty's government—the noble marquis being a member of
the committee in their :ordships' house, and the noble lord,
the First Lora of the Treasury, being on the committee
in the other house—when the committee of the
other hones met, he understood that resolutions
similar to those which were laid on the table of their lord-
ships' committee were moved in a very different sense, and
with a very different explanatica to that which had been
given in their lordships house; and ft appeared, so far
from its being a point oa which the cabinet had not made up
their minds, it was declared by the rust Lord of the Treasury
that them reselations were submitted to the cabinet—that

they were the plan of the government—and if they were
not adopted by the committee, they would be submitted to
Parliament on the responsibility of the government alone.
The next step was • motion made in that committee, by
members not connected with the 'government, that upon
the resolutions so submitted, evidence should be
taken as it had been in their lordships' house.
And their lordships would hardly credit the fact
that this proposition, in conformity with the declaration
of the government in their lordships' home, wee negatived
by the members of the government it the House of Com-
mons, the noble lord, the Fint Lord of the Tresstuy, taking
the initistive, and declaring that her Majesty's government
would permit no investigation to take place. And there was
first a negative on the proposition to hear evidence in sup-
port of the government resolutions, and then m negative put
an the prepeetiontkertlo government should bring in this
resolution on their own responsibility, neither of these
ceummes suiting the goverment. In their lordships' house
the ministry declared that they were net pledged to any
course, end in the House of Commons they said they were.
The resolution, not founded on any evidence, was passel in
the committee, and reported to the House of Commons, and
it formed, in fact, the first report of the select com-
mittee of that house ; and the noble lord at
the head of the government had given nodes,
he understood, that on Tnursday nest he would move for a
committee of the whole house to take into consideration the
single resolution passed by the committee of the House of
Clemons in order to found a legislative measure upon it,
their lordships being actually at this moment taking evidence
on the seject. There appeared an inconsistency between
the course adopted in their lordships' house and that of the
other house of parliament which it was impossible for him
to reconcile with the respect due to either house of parlia-
ment, to the noble marquis opposite, or to the neral course
of the administration of the country. (Hear, helm)
With regard to himself, and speaking in the name of
many or the landlords of Ireland, he would my, that
provided they could obtain such a subdivision of the
electoral districts u should give to them responsibility for
their own properties alone. and free them from the responai-
Wiry of other districts—provided they IMO relieved from
those districts which were absolutely paaperiesd, and the
matzo' of the elected guardian, who had proved tlym-
selves Insdideat—and provided that any sum of
whit* might be required as a rite ha aid should be=
deted as a repayable by the district to which it wss
advanced when' • more pompanos state of affairs, object
to all them (*editions. he said he was willing to pay in re-
rProgeny as a art of Ines:me, a rate in ail to
• lees krtaaate 66, not ameeding is. in the pound.
Ober. heer_.) But the proposition now made was the super
Mmtrium who he had peopeeed to raise without the *muds-
Mon that Ile had Intendd to lay for it. The couclitima

which he specified as indispensable to his proposition, and
without which he should not willingly adopt It, were entirely
put out of the question. With regard to this proposition of
a rate in aid, he did not wish to discuss it then, but he
Loped it would not be raised uncoupled with any other pro-
peition, and standirg by itself. (Hear, hear.) The robe
lord concluded by moving that a message be sent to the otter
house requestieg • copy of the &et report of the select com-
mittee on the Irish poor-law. (Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said the motion of
the noble lord had no doubt been made for the purpose
of cnab'ing hint to put a question which he (the
noble marquis) was desirous n 1 answericg. The noble
lord must know, ecqusinted as be was with the proceedings
and forms of both houses of parliament, that he (the Marquis
of Lansdowne) meld only answer the question with a cer-
tain degree of doubt as to form ; but he hoped he should be
able to do so satisfactorily in substance. As to whet had
taken place in the committee of their lordships' house and in
the committee of the other house of parliament, he could
only any that he bad pursued a 00U1111) which he thought
perfectly congstent with the particular position of their lord-
ships' committee. He had laid before that committee the
substance of certain propositions which he understood were
to be made in another place. He did not lay it before the
committee of their le rdshipe house in the form of aresolution,
but it was communicated by him solely as a suggestion.
Those suggestions were not put in the form of a resolution
for obvious reasons applicable to their lordships' house. He
was anxious that an opportunity should be given to their
lordships' committee to examine into the subject, and be
th night it most desirable that • similar epportunity should
hays been had el&where ; but their lordships would consider
the different positions of the two committees. lie would
now proceed to explain what had taken place elsewhere, be-
cause the question of the noble lord not only called on him
to explain his conduct, aced the conduct of the government
in another place, but it even went to that which it was im-
possible he could do authoritatively, namely, to exiilsin the
motives of members of the other house of Parliament acting
on a committee. It was notorious that a proposition made by
one of his distinguished colleague, had been assented to by
a large majority of that committee, and Rooth., proposition
to which the noble lord had alluded, aced which was made
by a member not connected with the government, was also
&minted to by a large majority. The proposition laid before
bo'h committees, as a resolution in one, and communicated
in substance to the other, embraced a variety of topics con-
nected with the whole subject of the poor law is Indeed,
and which one had precedence of the other, or whether
they required more evidence to support them, was
another queetion ; but they were all fit sub.
tete: for inquiry. The only resolution which had
adopted by the committee in the other
house was one immediately, and in the opinion of the other
how. indispensably, connected with the prompt relief of Ire-
land, in a state of most utter distress and destitution. (Hear
hear) And it occurred to him, as the reason for that course
having been taken by tt'e committee, that however anxious
they might be to obtain the most complete information upon
every point connected with so important a subject, there was
one question upon which there was no possibility of delay,
namely, that which was connected with the immediate as
esteemed& portion of the people of Ireland for the next few
sleuths. (Hear, hear.) He had no hesitation in saying that
he wished no separation bad taken place between the first
resolution, and those which immediately followed it. (Hear,
hear.) If • temporary rate in aid was to be entertained by
parliament, he tnought it ought to be in connexion with the
other question as to establishing • maximum of poor rate in
all the counties of Ireland. (HOar, hear.) He believed that
to be • matter of paramount importance. He believed that
in the absence of a maximum rate the uncertainty which
would be tetendant on the amount of poor rate which might
be raised in those counties which were dependent on the po-
' tato crop, and where it had failed, would be very great. In
some of those counties it was impossible to let land which
had been abandoned at all, except in that most
objectionable form, namely, in small allotment& The
effect of the poor law as it now stood, without setae rectifi-
cation was to glee • direct encouragement to that which all
their legislation should be directed to discourage—the in-
finite sub division of land in Ireland—the source of all the
mischief which they found it so difficult • teak to obviate.
For these reasons he wished that the whole of the proposition
—he meant them parts of it which related to a rate In aid,
ands maximum of poor rate—should be considered together.
(Hear, hear.) Seeing the necessity, in the absence of par-
liamentary grants, for immediate relief from starvation—
seeing the necessity of providing some remedy which should
touch the existineiegvil, he could understand the other house
of parliament sa they would report the resolution as far
as it related t e immediate evil, and take time for the eon.
aeration of the question of s maximum rate. It was a
question of great importance what the maximum should be,
and subject to what regulation—and this part of the question
could not be proceeded with hastily. Their lordships would
have an opportunity of prosecuting the inquiry day by day,
and they could not be called on to legislate on it fur some
time. But as to the other house, he had only to repeat that
upon one portion of the subject there did exist something
like necessity if they wished to prevent starvation ; and,
after all, be thought it would be found that there
only existed an apparent and not a real discrepancy
between the warm which had been adopted in the
en* house of parliament and the other. (Hoer, kw.) He
=l with the noble lord that • rate in aid was liable to
arva doubts as applying to anything like a permanent
character, and he had no hesitation in saying that no con-
sideration on earth would have induced him to insist in
sanying a measure the attest of which would be to establish
it as • permanent measure. (Hear, hear.) It was only ma
temporary expedient, Wadies; fealties which perhaps no
ether expedient could supply, to meet • great and existing
evil that this Immure, limited in amount and In time, bad
received his acquiescence. (Hear, hear.) Beyond this he
was not prepared to go. (Hear, hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM was glad to hear the great reluctance
with which his noble friend had given his assent to a rate in
aid. He objected to a maximum rate, because its inevitable
tendency would be to become a minimum. He hoped the
recent 50,0001. grant would be the last of the kind made to
Ireland.

The motion was then withdrawn.
- ROYAL ASSRNT.

--- --...
After a wry considerable interral,the Lords Commhaionen
nominated by her Majesty, namely, the LORD CHANCELLOR,
Eul GRIT, and Lord Cartrnam., took their 'eats, robed, on
the woolsack.

The Speaker of the House of Commons, accompanied by
Lord J. Russell and several other members of the lower
house, appeared at the bar with the customary formalities,
and after the usual address delivered on these occasions by
the Lori Chancellor, and the reading of the royal com-
mission,

The royal assent was given to the Inland Revenue Bill
and the Habeas Corpus Suspension (Ireland) Ball.
The Speaker and the Commons haying retired, their lord-
ships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TVUDAY, FM 27.
The BraAiza took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE RUBLVERS.

SECOND READINCI9.7II;iXook-; et. Gabriel and Bintwooke St.
Mau Ineissore (amendment and eatemion of acts, alteration of
swards, settling titles to lands, he., and &Baton parish boundarte.suit
Leeds and Think Railway (power to guarantee interest on
An) ; Lanka and RI ,ektrall Ratlway (amendment and eaten.
char
time); North Staffordshire Railway (anteadment et sets);
Whittlimey St. Mary and Whlttleary St. Andrew Union at Pariahs.,
and for treprrflog the Ibtra of Whittteeei; NU.