The Express.
London, England, 1851-02-08 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 8, 1851.

of Melipotamus, with power in Westminster, this tension of catholicism which we now find in Ireland, and is
rth2parliament would out touch him. Then, how were the real muse of that pertinacious adherence to the church
they to meet the ease of Ireland ? Supposing any event the of Rome which has characterised Ireland more than any
Roman catholic prelates there continuing his tale, and corn- other catholic country in Europe. (Cheers. I wish hon.
mating the offeuces created by the bill, how was he to be gentlemen could for a moment imagine themselves Irish ea-
tried ? The noble lordhadtoldthernnothing ofthemachinery tholics, with this protestant chureleand this protestant state
of the bill. (Hear.) He was creating a new offence—the ruling them as the Irish catholic, have been ruled, and you
offence of being called Archbishop of Westminster—but he will at once see that the system we have adopted would have
had not told them what the offence was to be held—whether been enough to make catholicism not only a faith, but a
a misdemeanour or a felony—whether it was to be punished patriotism—(hear, hear)—and that every Irishman who
by fine, or imprisonment, or how it was to be tried. Was abandoned catholicism and became a protestant, abandoned
there ever heard so meagre a finale to so overblown a pre- not only his church, but committed himself to a party who
ludde ? (Hear.) Supposing the Archbishop of Tumn— were the greatest enemies to the peace and tranquillity of'
that lion of the noble lord'', fears—were to send a letter to his country. (Hear, hear.) Well, the catholic religion
the Lord Lieutenant, signing himself Archbishop of Tuam triumphs; and the territorial system you adopted is now
and declaring plainly that he did so for the purpose of try- breaking down by the dispersion of landed property under
ing the question, how would they bring him to trial ? Wu the Encumbered Estates Act. That territorial system op-
it like the statesman of a great country to occasion such a pressed the peasantry, and has so greatly impoverished
petition of affairs as must then take place, and to risk the them that annually, for some years, great numbers of them
peace and tranquillity of one third of the United Kingdom, have been forced to exile themselves from Ireland. Lan-
merely because it was thought desirable to throw a tub to cashire, and all the great town., and other places where em-
the whale. (Hear, hear.) The bill, if operative at all, ployment is to be had, are now crowded with a population
would operate for mischief and not for good—for excite- which, bat for the government of this country with regard
mint and ill feeling, and not for peace and tranquillity. to Ireland, would have been living comfortably, and
(Hear.) Ile appealed to the common justice of the industriously, and prosperously in their own land.
house on this ground—he showed that the whole conduct (Cheers.) Well, this is a fitting retribution. (Hear, hear.)
of her elajesty's ministers had tended to and conduced to I wish some one capable of such a work would write a his-
the belief, in the minds of catholic., that what they were tory of the retributive justice which has overtaken this
about to do would give no offence to their protestant country in relation to its dealings with catholic Inland.
lmethren. (Hear, bear.) If so, and if the government had Catholicism, we are told, is spreading ; and I admit that it
es conducted itself, believing that the people of England does appear to he spreading. But I believe those appear-
weve above prejudice in such matters—if so, they were not anew arise from the circumstances I have before referred
justified, bemuse of the excitement out of doors, 'because of to. Our legislation, then, has borne fruits to Rome both in
the phantom they had themselves raised, to bring forth Ireland and in England. (Hear, hear.) Let us inquire as
obsolete laws, and in the fear that they were obsolete to to Englund. England shows symptoms of returning to
seek to reeennte them. The ouble lord might depend upon Rome. But where are these symptoms ? In the people
it, that when in 100 years hence people should look. back to or in the clergy ? (Hear, hear.) Why, the noble lord's
the events of the present time, they would be surprised, not letter tells us where it is. (Hear.) The noble lord has
that a giddy multitude should be led into such extrava- discovered that that great institution, which was supposed
trances of bigotry, but that a statesman like the noble lord to be the bulwark of protestantism, turns out to be a huge
should have allowed himself to be carried away, and sue- manufactory of a national or home-made popery. (lane,
render mind, heart, and head, into the hands of an ignorant ter.) Idu not mean to say that tho-e who are retrograding
and harmed populace, and that be should have had the are willing to recognise the supremacy of the Pope • but
it
courage to come down to the House of Commons and ask is a fact that they do adopt the principles of the papal mil-
ks sanction to the most laundering act which had ever Ms- gion, such as a sacramental church, the special powers of
graced the Teemed. of parliament, even in the most bigutted priests, and the subjugation of the mind to the priestly in-
period of our history. (Wee, bear.) Mutate. 1 recollect travelling with a clergyman of the
Mr. J. O'CONNELL acknowledged the temperate chg. church of Englund lately, and he said frankly that he
ratter of the ministerial promaition, and felt himself abes thought the great evil of the day Sea', the prote.tantism of
to support the measure, though he believed it would prove this country. (Great laughter.) Again, this very. month
inefficient and paltry. Ile explained and vindicated the it happened that I met two clergymen in one
proceedings of the papal authorities in reference to Ireland, day—(a laugh)—and they quite as frankly told me
of De. Cullen, and of the ?nod of Thurless ;he controverted that they did not bold the doctrine of the supre-
some of the allegation: oford J. Russell as to the conduct niacy of the Queen at all. Turn for a moment, then, and
of the l'ope in other catholic countries, as well as hie de- consider this English church. This English church has
elections from English history; ; and repelled the implied been established very much as it now is for nearly three
charge of disloyalty made against the Roman catholic% he- hundred years. It has been called the bulwark of prates-
li
cause they do not acknowledge the spiritual or ecclesiastical tantism. Let us examine what this church has had at its
supremacy of the Queen over their own affairs. disposal ; and 1 will, if I can—but I cannot, doubtless--
Mr. 11. DRI;MMOND, though no catholic, rejoiced that examine it with something like impartiality. It has bad
a church existed which still, in matter of faith, presented a the universities of Oxford and Cambridge. Dissenter, I
hslwark against the advances of infidelity and latitudina- believe, cannot go at all to Oxford, aid they do not ma on
rianion. But in matter of practice lie denounced the domi- 'very well at Cambridge. (Laughter.) It has had some
nation of the priesthood, the slavery of the laity, and the two dozen Bishops in the Home of Lords. The
daring assumption by the papacy of authority over Fisica noble lord (Lord John Russell) mid to-night that
polities and powers. Recapitulating many instances of he was strongly opposed to ecclesiastical udiueneel
cutholic extension in England and Ireland, be inquired in temporal affairs. (Cheers, and loud laughter.)
what measures were to he taken for its repression, and Why, if we walk to the other house, we see 24 or 20 bishops,
insisted on the necessity of guarding against its and it is a remarkable fact that they always sit behind the
voracious appetite for endowments and bequests. government. (Went laughter.) When a minister crosses
Ile was esteniehel to hear that this was nut a question of the house the biehum stay where they are; they always
aggression ; in no state of Europe would the }eve have keep the government side. (Great laughter.) (Inc of these
'hired to do what he had done here. This act was in fur- bishops, the archbishop, has an income of 16,0001. a year. I
theranee of the old scheme for establishing the domination' beeard the noble lord, when this archbishop was appointed,
of the priesthood and the subjection of the laity. In Ire-Istate that he (Lord J. Russell) had made an arrangement
lend, humility towards this country was kept up in the by which the salary would be brought down from its
minds of the people, who were taught to believe what their hitherto unknown and fabulous amount to this 15,000/.
prieds told them as if it were the voice of God. To this a year; and the noble lord said, with a coolness I thought
anti-English spirit at Itomieas well as to the thintfor pewee, inimitable, that he hoped this would be quite ottisfaetory.
Mr, Drummond traced this act of usurpation, the civil and ((heat laughter.) The noble lord, however, has a bumble
social evils attending which he described 'livery dark colours. idea of his own services, and did not propose on the 'salaries'
The dangerous and insidious power which they had to coin- committee to give the chief officer of the government more
bat, was the subtle and underming influence of the Roman than 5,000 f. a year, though it would be difficult to say
priesthood, exercised as it was over every individual pm-1 what bishop had ever dune one half the service
freeing their faith, and with reference to every action of his to the country which the head of the government was in
life. The Pope had never renounced the claims of his church . a habit of performing. Not only, however, here, but where-
tn
diepnee of the crown of England, and the Irish priests • ever the)' travel, these bishops and archbishop* are our
had never intermitted their efforts to make Ireland ungo- ! rounded with pomp and power. A bishop was sent lately
tamable by protestant rulers. The hon. gentleman went to Jerusalem ; and he did not travel like an ordinary man
on to stigmatise I/r. Cullen as the anti-English minion of a —lie had a steam-frigate to himself—the Devastation.
foreign priest—as a espy of the Pope—and as having been a I (Great laughter.) And when he arrived within a stone's
noted sympathiser with the Smith O'Brien attempts at re- throw, no doubt, of the house Where an apostle
billion, and then demanded whether the abomination of lived, in the house of Simon, the tanner, he was
scoundrels going round the countryand enticing female': saluted with a salute of 20 guns. (Laughter.) The other
children into nunneries was to be permitted to go on; and day in a Bombay paper I saw that the Bishop of Madras
("included by arguing that inasmuch as the supremacy of had been leaving that port, and ache passed out lee gut a
the Queen was epiritual as well es temporal, the prmeedinge ' salute due to his rank aud dignity. 1 believe hon. gentle-
of the Pope, even if purely spiritual, amounted to an inroad men on the other side of the uuse think more honour due
capon her jurisdiction. I to bishops than to peers, and consider that to speak against
Mr. ROCHE, who characterised the speech of Lord J. the established church is a sort of crime very nearly akin to
Russell as a homage to the spirit of bigotry which he had high treaeou. This church of England has the crown in its
contributed tonaee, contendell that the bill proposed was U 33. favour, the parliament at its back, and the noble lord
himself has a compact with the bishops. (Laughter.)
necessary inasmuch as the 13th Eliz., e. 2, was sufficient to
meet the offence of introducing hulls ; whilst it was an ! This has been the ease since the noble lord has been iu
attempt to ignore the Roman Catholic church, which had . Power front 1146, having, no doubt, taken warning by what
been virtually, and even directly, recognised by the legis- , took place when he was formerly in office. Ile has olive-
lature. The wont feature of the bill was that it was to I ously a league offensive and defensive with the bishops ;
extend to Ireland, where a religious agitation would be ,be is to let the bishops alone, and they are to let him
meet mischievous. alone. (Laughter.) 'I his church has the army, the magi.
Mr. P.lOOltE said, the appeals which Lord 3. Russell tracy, and the police, at its disposal and in its favour. It
bed made to ancient English history, and to examples ; has from beet° fifteen thousand priests spread over all the
amongst European states, seemed to adopt the policy of parishes of guglimd. One half of these, 4,000 are pree
deeputic governments, and to abandon that of free inmitu- melted lye prieute patrons. I make no charge against theee
bishops of the establiehed church. Many of them are not
nuns. America was a more germane example, and that he
had overlooked. 'fhe question was, whether ltoman ea. to be surpassed by the ministers of any church. There can
tholic prelate. should IM nominated at all ; if the Pope be no doubt that the church which hue heed so lone, and
must not nominate, and the state stood aloof, the Sovereign which retains still so much of the affection and respect of
protesting against the religion of one-third of her subjects, the people 'Atha country, is not to be treated lightly. But I
this was tyranny. If the nation hail retrograded into se- still it is a church of itheouhuicy and domination. (Hear, I
enrol ehildhood, this home should assume its high function bear.) It has votes of money from parliament to almost an,
of asorting, againet the wild voice of agitation, the deve- unknown amount ; aud it has a revenue of millions,
of I
eminent of minim public opinion. If so much respect was which the parliamentar plummet has never vended the
depth. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) Well, and 'Where
paid to the your of the people of England, what was to be I
said to the people of Ireland? There hut one answer now is this churel ? In the year 1140 it has not
would he given to this measure—"We defy you to carry it only not sand the country from the Pope, but, according
into effect." to the statement of the prime minister, it is deeply infeeted
Mr. BRIOIIT commented upon the inconsistency be- with popery itself. (Hear, hear.) Now I tusk if your ma-
Morn the tenor of Lord John Russell's letter where the chinery in any other department had as tidally failed in
progress) of high church principle', Wile set forth as the I effecting the purpose for which it was estublished, would
most threatening hewer, and his conduct in omitting all I you not entirely get rid of it ? (Hear, hear.) This church
mention of that danger in the royal speech, and now pro- i took i* tamps: from Ileum. VIII ; it was fixed where it is
peeing a trivial measure in which it was not touched. But Iby Egmbeth, she hating the Pope at Rome because she
he believed this would Ix• hut the beginning of measures, if' was herself l'ope at home—(laughter)—and it was to her
the precedent of interference were once established. Catho- imperious and tyraunieal despotism more than to anything
liciem was said to lie progressing. He did not believe such else we owe the Met that what was culled the reformed
to be the fact. In numbers the catholic., especially in church of England is not really reformed. Mr. Bright
Lancashire,' were inereming by immigration from Ireland ; then contrasted the minister's declaration against the in-
but promlytera to that faith was almost entirely confined tereference of ecclesiastics in temporal affairs with the vast
to clergynten of the established church. On the other side, secular powers, numerous dignities, and privileges enjoyed
we had -attempted for some centuries to proselytise the Irish Iby the prelates and clergy of the established church,
catholies by force, and now maintained a church in Inland and the political union they maintained with the civil
with a vast array of power, patronage, and wealth, ostensi- governor.. For ages the church had existed as a political
My for the purpose iif conversion ; but the catholic,. were machine and the opponent of all legislative reforms. Un-
still exterminated nor converted. The establish- fortunately zeal had entered its ranks ;it was rent by hitter
mint in Inland, united as it was with the civil power, had schisms, tend kept together only in name by the posoasions
worked ill for protestantism ; and in England had contra to which it held a parliamentary title. In America religion
butteh to the formation of a home or *national popery.: In was arrayed in more modcot and suitable guise, and there
further reference to the church in Ireland—Mr. Bngbt said catholicism, so far from progressing, was reduced by- ex-
the Irish Church— for, I believe, it is no longer to be tensive conversion. The hon. member concluded by enun-
called the Established Church, but the Irish branch of that elating the principle that church discipline was not a sub-
ehurch—hae lately become alarmed, and does not thank the )act for legislation, adding that the present attempt to legis-
noble lord (Lord J. Rumen) for his celebrated letter, late upon it would be impotent and useless.
because that letter calls attention to the existence of Mr. DISRAELI said he wished to mean the attention of
this church in Ireland. (A laugh.) The safety of the the house from that controversial rhetoric which, he feared,
Irish church depends on its being entirely overlooked. the policy of the government had afforded considerable
d(Laughter.) This Irish church is an institution, if I un- scope to. (Hear, hear.) He was anxious to explain the
entand it rightly, placed inbaland for the purpose of eon- reason why he gave his vote for the introduction of
'ening the' Roman catholic. of that country ; for the pur- the bill. Ile did so because he thought it was
pine of being the hond of union between Great Britain and of interest that the community in general should
Ireland. Oheerve, now, what this church has had at in see what was the result of that remarkable agitation which
disposal. It has had the whole power and favour of the had been fostered by the government—(hear)—and which
crown, and the whole power and favour of parliament. It had led to a national demonstration that perhaps had seldom
hi had all the laws parliament could make to help it, bean equalled. (Hear, hear.) He weld not but think
and it has had the whole administration of these laws in its that to-morrow, when the report of the contents of this bill
own hands. It has had the army and the police at its dim would be made known, there would be a feeling of great
ed. It has collected rates from nll the catholics of Ire- disappointment as well as mortification. (Hear, hear.) Le
land, and it has carried 011 a war with the peasantry for them remember for a moment what the bill we. intended
tithes, to that extent that it has been acknowledged that to combat. It was intended to combat an aggression. Let
to gain 12,000/. value of tithes the government of this the house remember the origin of its now familiar—fami-
country, aiding the Irish church, had to spend 28,0001. in liar but fearful—form. (Hear, hear.) That expression,
military and police. It has had all the patronage of Ire- selected by the minister himself, and offend to the coun-
t:mil at its disposal; it has had all the dignitaries of state. try, was a reason for that appeal, both to the passions and
It has Iron, in short. a church of ascendancy and of demi- the reason of the nation, which he in his wisdom felt it his
nation in Ireland. What is more, it has had an amount of duty to make. (Ileac, hear.) Such, then, was the
property at its disposal Opal to at least a principal nun of weapon with which the first minister of the crown,
20,000,000 e, the annual income of which has been received after three months of unexampled agitation in the
by its bishops and its ministers. This church hue been country, after three months' consultation with his col'
allied with power ith the civil ; and there has not been an act leagues—such was the weapon which he had pre to
of uppresaion which the civil power has committed in Ire- defend the church and state from the great intrusion which
land which has not beets committed either in obedience to Ihe had denounced. He (Mr. Disraeli) did not think that
that church, or with its must cordial and constant ament weapon was equal to the office for which it was intended.
(Hear. hear.) Nay, mon•, that church hue denounced (Hear, hear.) He thought that many would be of the
every effort ever made to give anything like freedom to the opinion that the result was somewhat smile following from
Roman cathodic population of Ireland. The noble lord the antecedents that had so largely attracted the public
himself at the heed of the government has been denounced notice. (Hear, hear.) Was it for such that a Lord Chan
within my recallection by thaw in favour of the church of teller a England trampled on a cardinal's bat ? (Cheers
Irelesul because he was suspected of being frit ndly to the and laughter.) Was it for that that he called forth, as it
rights and liberties of our catholic fellow subjems. And, were, a battery of acclamation from the metropolitan muni-
after all, the Irish catholic, have not been exterminated, cimlity ? (ltenewed cheers from the opposition benches.)
and their religion has not been suppressed. (Hear, bear.) It Was it for that that the tint minister of the crown, with
is a common saying, and it is an accurate vying, that truth more reserve, delicately intimated to the assembled
is indestructible. -But let the house remember that there
t l the
hops,
shadow of the Armada darkened the eras of Eng-
. , even greater danger was at hand, and when
o
guests that there had been occasions when, per-
is is another thing which is indestructible, and tha is a pem
eutel error. (Cheers.) Now, I hope those get
htienta
who sit near me (the teeth member.) will not for an instant lend ? Was it for that that all the counties, and corporations
suppose, when 1 speak of their church as being a church ot! of England met ? (Hear, hear. Was it for that that all
emir, that lamto be understood a. ',eying anything offen- I the learned and religious societies of the
kingdom &seem-
! sive to them. (lentil cries of " Year, hear.") I hold opinions ; bled, and that eta riod the most inconvenient, in order,
very different from the opinions they hold, and would treat , ZIA they th h period
d h
time
to reopen to t e appeal of the sovenign,
I their church with all the deference end coned • '
which
totem
ash
the . . era on and lose no in assuring her Majesty that they would
en to maintain towards myher authority and uphold her 'supremacy ? Hear
(Hear, hear.) I was stating that this Irish guardee., and renewed cheering from the it•
eh reh hse been h aqued with the civil power. Ithat opposition.) Was
for that the great universities of Oxford and Caen-
recollect a raying of 'yen ancient father of the church,
who lived, I think,inathe ei.ghth century, which is spindles- bridge, with the great city of London, went in solemn
ble in this ease. Speaking of the difficulty he found procenion, in order to offer, at the foot of the
cos- throne, insurances of their devotion ? (Hear, hear.)
vetting the Saxony, he said of the memo nary clergy, that Was it for this that the
had they entered on the work of conversion with kindness 1 electric telegraph had been cm-
p played to convey the royal response to the address, which
and generosity, had they been as zealous iu manifemin
Christianly conduct as in collecting tither—Sint Practii g was to impart courage to the metropolis?
ea- What were these remedies ? Some Romancatholic • (Laughter.)
totes, nets Proedatorrs—preachers, not plunderers—(greatDollops
be prevented fromtaking • ,
laughter), their difficulties would have beeu considerably Ims ' were
titles
which'
to
a certain
The church of Ireland said to the governmeut of
willtovt • extent, they were prevented by the existing law from am
"If you will defend me with the sword, I defend earning, and the only difference now would be, that they
would be prevented from taking territorial titles which
you with the pen ;" and PO these two pewees have always WI.
gone together in Ireland; and the result is this, that I think Thece2 ed b • theprelates
not ass um of the national church.
it capable of demonstration that the syst dem pursue y was not stated —40 e
penalty which was to be imposed if they did so
them together—met/ming the catholic religion to be less would be * operhaps —for that amount
quite worthy f the occasion. (Hear, hear.),
pun than the protestant religion—is at the root of that ea- Was this feat of petty persecution all that
the governosent