The Express.
London, England, 1847-12-17 00:00:00

their. ready manias saw to a pm the loa m which they e we tun, snit the pessliar elreamerreme a Ireland. govern-
"Cm& to tappet to FM& My lords, lobbyist diemaniag the meat might well Mato bindery Wei that indultam on I
Xiiidhieribiniann 01846, witheat gelegionithisme=o- tho thwwihurwirs www7, oaths knew wt largo.
mbearee ea erne tapeworm was et was ea ) • beright se Merge egiest tb. Itish
=g that meseme, nay he wameg eg pone eat'. Be:amear.. slab he body Meg am men of
Bore le • nomarkable Ist the tore assn. reepeenkaW la lime, diameter, Me Meet and en
an the press ememiso, we are expel* 'alley tepther is kora te the they were ; bat hie 'Palos k this ro-
an glee& le
sea
to prairie • minty he Ike meet wee esailltioslowl mead underp • the:cait, alter
imbed state ef Imned. The gueenment tell us any will '
the arise whisk had bees glees by We nab (Lord
maw Late se ether ingerleat brims mad ihe saes» Herawhistemikaiwldelloaledehli_kwed TerPollewhlw • rwonhor
,whleh they offildaseasswary b the poreselles akb end of the be bail to be meet easslies ay=
gememed ef. Thep tell us that get meaty pewee were tam le ebb with senhga—kis tread use e.g
11
PI misesstYthii demob ef a pressing ernergemw;
it they c
olt wont—hok acumen old welawrarwe thud INKY gm rik•
us to st“ than tkia power. But, my hubs how illalowsl° assuaged the 4111.1111. WWI st entreat laa al"
OM hem the ammo adagaad he !Ilia I. diaper, the pr- grated Ms ask they week by_iketeweelag wenn has the
he Inas egameg by • Noicei hem ehe aneos, ia whim altar to =mos end te delft. (ENO Road as stops be
bee Henn, &awed the essamed arenters ta Ireland, and taken for le Mead he compelled to my that
Wsthat it was oar dam te Ind • ',mod, for them. the shame whfr?"..sesoweemlaildet•hw hidirideolk would
was the wane parewel 1 Was the measure embed Mtge while body. To the competition for land, sea.
fa the samus
pion ef outage made, se this is, the Masie, with the ialmnee of the priesthood, uthood, wto be eitai-
libil end pral mowers of the stele.? No, my bated thepereat eaketuast• modition of Ireland. Themes
We. It wee in the early pert ef February that be amilaa the eaten the men was he convinced that the
the lesseamandades was delivered begs the threw. and laseleable trademy ef malswisa gad absolution was bertfal
he the nib se Marsh • measure brought kb yew lagaidps' to the mends a the people. The power which that religion
hems wee seat Irma to the other house a paiensent. oaly knew, el ebeeketkin, was apeenlly dangerous. Any
What fate did it meat with there ? At that time guesdoes mown to pet down eseen and absolution,
of free trade were ender centideratbn—matters electing the %meow, mouth be worse than useless. Having
teemmeose of the 'sentry were the principal awasariee of the deeeribed the mode in which priests in Ireland are
Sea samsnme, important as they woe, wen in my paid foe mArtilere end christenings, the noble lord asked,
Mises mein ,say than that he the pestanion was it fitting that they Would continue to be p
ayaaaid in such a
127'is sod Is ; and yet, ny lords, the bill diegraceful end kedeetat way ? He was aware that • great
fa memos miech, andri sent down by your prejudice existed =rand against government payment,
lwnmme
eedthim la the monk of Bank was not fixed for a second but lie had never , nor ever would, to combat that
maim ia the other home a parliament until late in the prejudice. Assume topic connected with this subject was
Moth ef Jamie. Meer, hear.) I mast my, thermion, I the state dem relations with Rome. In his opinion nothing
Mika it was gonewhet aiaseemary in the wale lord ma the could be mere ahead than that we should have no diplo-
men bench, I think he mead have acted mere wisely, more untie Miaow with • mart which exercised spiritual domi-
dimessely, and more genmemiy,if he had followed the idea over six oullime of ear fellow-subjects. He did not
tmonple of a right honourable tenant in soother regret the emeinioa elate curfew clauses an the present bill ;
plass, and told A* hems at Ism that if repro- they um generally ihopsrative, and more particularly at the
lin was due on the seem of the araspering of the bill present meement, Irma murders were contently committed
a 1846, it had best be made net by uninination about In the epee day. He bad been told that there was a regular
the past, but by arlopiesemspisee and ammelimeive mot- and wide-epread oonapirecy againetlandlorrls in Ireland. That
mrei for the future. Vieth abeesiag.) I sew mine, my there wee a central committee sitting In Dublin, that persons
lords, to the coati elf the measure itself, and upon were regularly tried and condemned, and that the names and
this I shall oar but ahw ebesevelims. I consider it desire- pingo mesilog were generally known. However, from
the that upon the gourmand should rest all the respond- Shimmied Warn informations, it was impossible to get at
hility as to the &officious, er lasefficiency of this enactment. them. Fee Nine state of things there Will no remedy but •
I should, however, be waging in duty to myself if I saspandlin dabs Habeas Corps., and the estab'ishment of
awarded to its passing without expressing my belief that it trial by evert martial. Ile believed that in 1833 the mere
is insufficient not way to meet the whole difficulty, but authorisation of those courts was sufficient, and tact his
even to grapple with the principal part of the evil. noble friend, Lord Anglesey, did not find it necessary to air-
flow let us see what this bill proposes. Three or four point $ single one. The mere threat was sufficient. (Hear.)
previsions of the bill give the Lord. Lieutenant the power of For the present bill, be looked upon it as a bill which meant
proclaiing that in certain districts, first, the carry- but little, but meant that little well. He did not think it
m
mg of arms, and second, by a later proclamation, sufficiently stringent, but if the government thought it
the possession of arms, 'bell be prohibited. Now, mffietent,lie was contented to let it pass on their responsibi-
'appose you succeed in disarming the population—suppose Illy. With respect to remedial measures, he looked upon
you are able by your second proclamation to call in and it so a violation of all the principles of sound policy and the
obtain the arms—do you believe that by such a withdrawal dictates of common justice.
Warms you frill succeed in putting down even the crime The house then went into committee.
itself, but still more the incitement to crime ? (Hear, hear.) The bill went through committee without amendment,
My lords, you may cripple the heads that execute, but
_yon and the third reading was fixed for to-morrow (this day).
cannot cripple the head, that plot. (Cheers.) Fire- PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND) BILL.
arms are not the only convenient instruments of murder. The Earl of DEVON moved the amend reading of the
There was a clause enacting that any person refusing to as- Public Works (Ireland) Bill. The noble earl at the mange
Ist in the capture or to join in the pursuit of a impacted time gave notice that to-morrow (this day) he should move
wean, should be subject to a specific penalty and to punish- the suspension of the standing orders, in order that the rte''
meat as for a misdemeanor, lie wished he could think that maining stages of the bill might be gone through.
this part of the law was likely to be effective, but if there Lord BON TEAGLE protested against the course taken
was a general determination to shield or screen an by the noble earl. He thought it monstrous that a bill of
Weeder, he did not see how it would be likely to such importance should be thus hurried through without
operate usefully. lie remarked one cam where a due notice to the parties concerned.
eatable being in pursuit of a culprit in Ireland, Earl ST. GERMANS, on the grounds of the urgency of
tientroosied the whole village to join him, and in such • the case, vindicated thecouree taken by the noble earl (Devon.)
wood did they do so, that the persoo pursued managed to After • few words from Lord Mowraeots, the bill was
(mixed up with them, and thereby to escape detection. read a second time.
Laughter.) Another lause, for which the government The house adjourned at 20 minutes to 11 o'clock.
wore not responsible—it was introduced, he believed, by an
independent member—awarded certain punishment to any
convicted as an accessory after the fact. But what,
,crane
like to knew, constituted an memory after the i
bet? A warrant was oat. The criminal instantly became
the object of general empathy. He was concealed, guarded,
and curtained. Suppose this man was found, tried and ac-
quitted. Would the party concealing him be considered an I
offender?
Lord LANSDOWNE—No.
Lord STANLEY—Why not? There must be a series
el facts is order te bring him before a jury ? His ob-
jection to the bill wee that it fell altogether short of
the evils it was intended to remedy. By no part of the bill
was that monster evil of a desire to oppose and obstruct, in-
Mead of support, the law attempted to be remedied.
Earl GREY could not differ from the noble lord opposite,
who stated the social disease in Ireland to be attributable to
sympathy for the offender, and not for those who suf- I
fired by the offence ; but he felt it to be equally true that I
Nat social diocese could not be remedied b a mere
measure for the suppression of crime. Unit the ex.
Ming hostile disposition to the law in that men-
try was removed, and the population made friendly to
is administration, he quite agreed with the noble lord that
no effectual remedy could be applied. They could not by
legislation create new minds and hearts in men who enter.
tamed such perverted notions as te oppose and obstruct the
administration of the law instead of supporting it ; and this
bill aimed at no such object. It was intended only to sup-
press the outward manifestation, of the evil, and to punish
offences when committed. To make the people understand
the folly sad wickedness of what they were doing, to gain
their sentence to the law, and iaduce them to respect it,
could only be the work of time and of other more gradual
improvements. He trusted, however, that this bill would
contribute to that result. He believed that by increas.
lag the powers of the executive government to sup-
press crime, by arresting and bringing to justice
the offenders, the sound part of the population would
be encouraged to amist in that endeavour ; for, as the
noble I .rd (Stanley) observed, • great part of the evil consisted
in the intimidation, which now prevented them from doing
so. (Hear, hear.) The bill, however, contained provisions
which he hoped would have a considerable effect in that re-
spect ; and to that object it was principally directed. He
quite agreed with the noble earl (Fitxwilliam) that the two
Objects should be separated ; that it would be highly inju•
dicious to mix up with this measure any other for improving
the social condition of the people ; and that the first step
should he to restore security, the want of which was utterly
fatal to the investment of capital and to the general improve-
ment of the country (Hear, hear.) He had listened
attentively to the speeches of noble lords, but he had heard
no suggestions which, if adopted, would, In his opinion,
render the bill before them more effective for the object it had
in view ; and certainly the moral effect of it depended
in no elitht degree on the manner in which it was passed.
Therefore it was that be rejoiced at so unanimous an assent
to it. Some noble lords, however, seemed to underrate the ex-
tant of thirteen given under it. Fault, for instance, was found
with the deans about arms. Now, according to the first
damp, the smut a district wee proclaimed it became ille-
gal% daffy some at all, while the Lord-Lieutenant by ano-
ther ashes could oblige all those who were not authorised to
comp sties to deliver them up on • certain day: It would
be *sot to make the posseaion of arms a crime without
&be main, and alYed al the means of delivering them up.
The reel object et MB part of the bill was to facili-
tate the ezessain of the law by preventing the
combs ef arms, and he thought it would have
that sib% Bat whet would have still goatee effect was
the minimise empowering the Lord-Lieutenant to increase
the polite to any same and charge the disturbed district to
which that increase was sent with the expense thereof.
(Eger bitaz.) 01 the subject of licenses the noble lord
to think itinisfficiouri to change the power Prom the
• ErONiansteiparilas appointed by the Lord-Lieutenant
ber astatted diming the disarming would be general,
end Bowes= would be the aneaptions, sat the rule. That
=ha ems, it teemed men Mirka& that the power
be lodged in the heads a the county inspector or
other high • ellen el the genstabulery. With re-
gard to essemeries Am the bet, they were only
plated on In gem haft as esemeories before
the bet, the the Pakkarent of wheat an act bad
bees pima •hw rue age he* for ltagland and Ireland.
Upon the maiden et juin k• knew not what his noble friend
would have. His noble friend had admitted that on the
whole juries in Ireland performed their duties effectively,
and he (Earl Grey) felt considerable confidence, with
the additional *elegem& which would be given to witnesses,
and the facilities which would be afforded for bringing
criminate to justice, that it would neither be necessary nor
desirable to make any provision based upon the idea that
juries would not be brought to convict. His noble friend
(Lord Semimoot)—whose speech did him infinite credit—
(hear, hear)—had asked whether the clause companion par-
ties to give information against criminals would apply to
Roman catholic priests, in respect to matters coming to their
knowledge by confession ? lie would at one say that the
dame could not possibly bear any such construction. (Hear.)
Another noble friend had suggested that strangers travelling
in the disturbed districts should be provided with passports.
He believed that the establishment of the system of passports
would be found as ineffective in .Ireland as it had been
in Belgium, where it had been abolished. If strangers
were found in the proclaimed districts armed they would lie
liable to be apprehended and punished, and with regard te
all strangers in such localities an effectve watch would be
kept on their movements by the police; but he objected to
give an arbitrary power to the police to arrest strangers, be-
lieving that ruche power would be liable to great abuse.
as to what had been said in reference to the omission
of the curfew clause for the same reason he bad urged
spinet that clause in the bill of 1546, viz., that it would-be
an improper interference with the ordinary industry and
occupation of the people—that it would enforce a degree of
wetraint which it would be utterly imposeble to keep up !
and that it would be open to abuse, he Objected to introduce
Into the prevent message. (Hear.) Though many remarks
had been made as to the inefficiency of the bill, he had heard
no practical suggestion for he improvement In his opinion,
taking all circumstances into account, it would not have
been possible to propose a measure more eakulated to effect
its object than the one under their lordships' conaideration.
Lord BROUGHAM observed that noble lords who had
expreesed doubt as to the effect of this measure, were not to
be called upon to take on themselves the burden of making
wiggeetions for its improvement, but being anxious that it
a lsonld ge to behind cm the responsibility of the government,
beet bed by as general a emettrrenee of feeling on the part
of the legislature as poselble they had stated how faint was
their expectation that it wtisild be effectual for its purpose,
and that they would rather bare given their assent to a mea-
sles t'f a more stringent nature. He differed with his noble
Mend, Lord Farnham, as to the blame attaching to govern-
ment on the ground that as prosecution had been instituted
%ph* them persons who, abasing their sacred office, had
dencreassed aim to be murdered. A preliminary question to
sob prosecution was, what evidence mould be brought
maim them anelledeett to insure '

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TmuRsoAr, DEC. 16.
The SPISAILER took the chair at four o'clock, when three
members took the oaths.
REGISTRATION (IRELAND).
Lord J. RUSSELL, said in reply Mr. Scully it was the
intention of her Migesey's government to bring in a Regis-
tration Bill for Ireland, but he could not say at present at
what period of the 8.16,00.
SMALL DEBTS (IRELAND.)
Mr. J. O'CONNELL asked if it was intended by the
government to bring in a bill to extend the bill in this
country for the recovery of small debts to Ireland ?
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said the question was under the
consideration of the government, but he could not pledge
himself as to the time when it would be brought in.
ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIGIOUS ORDERS.
Mr. C. ANSTEY begged to ask the right hon. gentlemen
the Homo Secretary whether it was his intention during the
reeve to take into consideration the actual Mate of this km
with regard to the religious orders of the Imes mrilkellie
church within these maims, and the provisional &easten
Catholic Relief Bill respecting the same?
Sir G. GREY was not able to Gay that he would give his
especial attention to the subeirt.
DEFENCES OP THE COUNTRY.
Viscount INOESTRE said that there was a letter going
the round of the papers purporting to come from his Grace
the Commander-in Chief, relative to the defences of the
country, and which had created great interest.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he was ignorant of any such cor-
respondence as bad appeared in the papers. With regard
to conmennications from the noble duke, the Commander-in-
Chief on the subject of the defences of the country, soon
after lye (Lord J. Rumen) came into office, he bad written a
letter to the noble duke on the subject, and had received
from him a very fall answer, and since then he had been in
frequent communication with him on the same matter,
SLAVE TRADE.—THE BRAZILS.
Mr. THORNELY, in the absence of Mr. W. Brown,
begged to ask the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign
Affairs whether any, and what, steps had been taken since
the arriesl of the lately appointed English minister at the
wart of Rio Jambe, m the negotiation of a new treaty of
esoniateros between this country and the empire of
Brasil—whether it be true, es had been publicly stated,
that the government of Brazil had refused to enter on any
each negotiation until the Slave Trade Act be repealed.
Viscount PALMERSTON said Lord Bowden had re-
ceived instructions to negotiate with the government of
I Brazil for a commercial treaty, but up to the last amount
11 which bad been received no commencement of those mega
tiatiows had been made, and there had been no commentate.
Mon from the government of Brazil as to the nature of the
treaty which they would prefer. It was true the govern-
ment of Brasil felt an objection te the act which passed two
years ago, but the government had no intention of proposing
the repeal of that eat, unless the government of the Betel%
consented to a satisfactory treaty for the suppression of the
slave trade, and would adopt a similar course to that which
had been followed by Portugal ; and if they consented to a
treaty of the same description, the government would pro-
pose to take such steps with regard to the act relating to the
Brazilian slave trade, u had. been adopted by the late go-
vernment with regard te Portugal.
CHURCH RATES.
Col. SALWEY begged to uk the government whe-
ther it was their intention to introduce into the present
session of parliament any measure for the relief of that por-
tion of her Majesty's subjects who cowrientiously dissent
from the rites and doctrines of the established church, from
payment of church rates?
Lard J. RUSSELL said it was not the intention of her
Melmity's government to introduce any such measure.
(" Helm, hur," and cheers.)_
IMPORT DUTIES IN SPAIN.
Mr. 0. BANKEB begged to ark the noble lord the Secre-
tary for Foreign Affairs, if the government had received
intelligence with regard to the augmentation of the import
duties levied in Spain on articles the produce of this coun-
try ? and if his answer was in the negative, he begged to ask
if he had received any intimation of such an intention on
the pert of the Spanish government?
Viscount PALMERSTON said lathe hon. gentleman bad
not given him notice of hie question, he was not prepared to
say if there had been any change in the tariff in Spain, but
he would inform himself on the subject, and let the hon.
gentleman know to-morrow (this day).
TREATIES WITH BRAZIL.

Mr. H. BAILLIE said that with reference to what had
been stated by the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign
Affairs as to the intentions of the government to enter into
• new treaty with Brazil, he begged to ask if the Brazilian
government had adhered to the treaties already existing, and
if he thought that the new treaty would be adhered to ?
Viscount PALMERSTON (who was indistinctly heard)
said facts were one thing and opinions another, and the hon.
gentleman was as competent as he (Lord Palmerston) was
to judge as to what was likely to be the conduct of the
Brazilian government under • new treaty. But the
hon. gentleman must be aware that that treaty might be
terminated by the Brazilian government by virtue of a sti-
pulation or a preceding treaty. Its effect did not depend on
the good faith of the Brazilian government, but it gave cer.
tain powers to the British cruisers and to the mixed com-
miasions; and, if the Brazilian government consented by
the new treaty to give the same powers to the British cruisers
and the mixed commissions, the government of this country
would think that n sufficient reason for agreeing to that treaty.
MINISTERS' MONEY (IRELAND),
Mr. 3. O'BRIEN begged to inquire of the right hon.
gentleman the Secretary for Ireland if it was the Intention
of her Majesty's government to take into consideration the
expediency of relieving certain towns and cities in Ireland
from the payment of ministers' money, maintaining at the
same time vested rights, and indemnifying the present
inrumbente
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said the enbject was one of great
importance and difficulty. It was under the consideration of
the government, but he could not pledge himself as to the
course they would pursue.
THE REV. MR. M'DERIKOTT.

Sir B. HALL said that he wished to put a question to
the right hon. gentleman the Secretary for Ireland, with
reference to the cue of the Rev. Mr. M'Dermott. A por-
tion of a letter from that gentleman had been read by the
hon. member for the city of Limerick, in which he rid :
" I have now to usure the public by the most solemn asseve-
rations a clergyman can utter, that the late Major Mahon
was never denounced, nor even his name mentioned from
any chapel altar in Strokestown, or within twenty miles of
Strokestown in app- direction, on any Sunday before his
death." He (Sir B. Hall) had received a letter yesterday
from a friend in Dublin, stating that the denunciation was
made en Monday. (Hear.) A letter had appeared lathe Times
of that day, eigned " An Irish Peer," and which he believed
was written by an Irish peer, and which contained this
paragraph The rev. priest is quite right as to the word
' Sunday.' The late Major Mahon was denounced from tho
altar on the ' Monday' previous to his assassination ; that
Monday was a saints' day, on which the Roman catholic
Population attend MA aa regularly, and in as wrest num.

THE

'RIZES, FRIDAY

He begged to ask whether inhemation had been veceived
by the authorities in Ireland with regard to the denuncia-
te= of Melo Mahon, and whether it occurred on Sunday
or Monday ; and if so, whether it was the intention of the
authorities to institute proceedings against that rev. gen.
tleman ? (Loud cheers.)
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said it was impossible for him to
say what information had been received by the Lod-Lieute-
nant in Dublin with reference to the subject of the question
of the hest baronet, and he was not in • contlitioa to give
the information which the hon. baronet required. That
hang is, the hon, baronet would see it was impossible for
Isla Oe =ewer his second question. (" Oh, oh," and
murmurs.)
Mr. J. 'CONNELL said that as the hon. baronet had
quoted some of the words of Mr. M'Dermote he ought to
have quoted them all, for in another part of his letter he
denied that on any mocarion bad that denunciation occurred.
There was some quibbling about the word Sunday. (" Oho
The SPEAKER reminded the hon. gentleman that there
was no question before the house. and he was irregular in
addressing it.
JEWISH DISABILITIES.
Lord J. RUSSELL rose end ssid—As I understand my
hon. friend the member for the University of Oxford means
to oppose the motion for the house resolving itself into a com-
mittee of the whole house to take into consideration the dis-
abilities affecting her Majesty's Jewish subjects, I feel myself
compelled, before making that motion, to state to the house
the general grounds on which I propose to proceed. I un-
derstand, also, from my hon. friend, theta the majority of the
house should agree to go into committee on that subject, he
does not mean to carry his opposition to the point
of refusing the formal resolutions necessary for the
introduction of the bill. That being the case, it
will be more convenient to take the disculaion at this
stage, than to reserve it (as had been done en former occa
sifts) until the house resolved itself into committee. (Hear,
hear.) In bringing forward this subject, I cannot avail
myself of many of those topics which those who have pro-
posed
the removal of disabilities on account of religious opi-
nions on former occasions have been able to avail them-
selves of, for the purpose of inducing the house to comply
with their request. I cannot now say, es I did when I pre
posed the repeal of the Test and Corporation Act, that these
are 3,000,000 of her Majesty's subjects engaged in all the
industrious employments of our cities and towns, to=
most important portion of the oommuaity, and distin
for their loyalty to the house of Brunswick and to the prin-
ciples which led to the introduction of that house to
the throne of these realms, who suffer under disabilities:
nor can I now, as did the great orator who introduced the
question of Roman catholic disabilities, refer to the state of
&s neighbouring country as a potent motive to induce the
homes to remove that source of continued discontent. lat
aa he did, of the indignation felt by the whale
psepY for the degradation they were suffering. I cannot
ask the house, u it values the peace anti future welfare of the
country, to agree to the motion I am about to submit ; for I
feel that this is a question which does not affect by any
mesas so large a union of the people, and which does not,
either by the acceptance or rejection of the motion, involve
such momentous considerations is those to which I have
alluded. lam about to address the house on behalf of the
cause rather of principle than one which involves any poli-
tical matter—a cause involving the religious liberties of
this country as they concern some thirty thousand at
forty thousand persons, forming • community which is
not disposed, nor indeed able if it were disposed, to
excite amour or tumult, to agitate the country by public
meetings, or to threaten the nation with convulsions if
their demands are not ace ded to. But feeling that I cannot
appeal to such topics, I would at the same time take the
liberty to advise the house that there may be dangers not
affecting the safety of the country, but affecting the character
and credit of parliament, if these claims are continually to
be refused. (Hear, hear.) It may be said that parliament
remained unwilling to concede religious freedom—that it
had never yet adopted those great principles of equality
which ought to be allowed to all the subjects of the
realm ; but that where there were vast holies of men, im-
portant from their burdens and wealth, all threatening
disaffection, parliament then yielded a reluctant assent to
their demands in order to insure the peace of the country.
(Rear, hear.) There is danger to the credit and character
of the legislature, if it should be said now that it has an op-
portunity without danger or the prospect of any great incon-
venience, to adopt the principle of religious freedom, it ad.
here, to the principle of religious persecution, and that they
are determined now to show that it was not front any wil-
lingness that it had adopted large and liberal principles on
former occasions when it yielded to the petitions of the peo-
ple. (Hear, hear.) Such, I venture to ray, wonld be •
result very injurious to the character of the house. There is
now no danger to arise from the adoption of those principles.
There was one danger stated many years ago—in 1830 when
my hon. friend (Sir R. H. Inglis) took upon him-
sed the character of a prophet, when he said :-
-.1 Derail upon it, if you admit the Jews to civil
ealies and to the council of the nation, it will be sure
W. fellow that in lees than seven years afterwards we shall
Wee a reform of parliament." Such was the prediction
that reform was to follow the admission of the Jews into this
house. But without the admission of the Jews—without
that precursor of reform—the very event has happened ; and
in two yeses after the time my hon. friend thus spoke,
reform of parliament was adopted by the legislature. (Hear,
hear.) I now proceed to state that I place this question on
the simple, but as I think the solid ground, that every
!Wellman entitled to all the honours and advantages
the British constitution gives—(hear, hear)—and I
Sate further, that religious opinions ought to be no disquali-
fied= to the enjoyment of those rights, honours, end al
mateges. (Cheers) I may throw myself upon the de.
claretron made in the house, " that the laws if Mewl
are the birthright of every British born =Wear ma
on the declaration once made in the House of la=
" no greater hardship could be inflicted upon an Eog
than to be deprived of the power of serving his prince ee the
country, unless some aims had been proved against him."
On these grounds I say, that unless something can be proved
against the Jews, they stand in the position of persons born
in this country—bearing all the burdens impued upon them
—ready to serve their sovereign and their country, end
therefore are entitled to all the rights and privileges which
other subjects of the crown enjoy. I state this with confi-
dence, and I will not attempt to ask the favour of the hones
as to any merits which I might urge on behalf of the Jon=
subjects of her Majesty. I think it is not smatter of favour,
but that unless some strong ground of disqualification
reeved, it is a matter of right to them. (Hew, hear.)
will not ask it, even on the ground that
who have opposed the Jewish claims have admitted
their peeneble and social character as =biota ; that there
are =Ms them men distinguished for talents; that in the
ANS% Idled they are now admissible, they have *horn
esemetless arable as magistrates, and In various other caps-
dies; that they are ardent in the pursuit of science and
=f, end have exhibited an intelligence equal to any office or
charge to which they may aspire—(Hear, hear)—l will not
urge these topio, bemuse it may make this appear as a
matter of favour on account of the peculiar merits of the
Jews, when I contend that, being subject to the burdened
the state, being born in this country, and being ready to
submit to all those duties which the state shall impose span
then., they have a claim of justice to be admitted to all its
konours and rewards. (Cheers.) Without urging any of
these peculiar reasons, I come now at once to consider the
objections that have been urged and that are still urged in
bar of their admission to the rights which I claim 'a their
behalf. In the very front of these objections, it is
said that it was proposed to unchristianise it= nation—
, (hear hsar)—to take away the christian char/weer of the
country, by admitting, not only Jews but kind of
infidel to offim. of state, and to seats in the
Now, far be itfrom me treaty, in answer tomtits& action,
that the 'edition of a man Is wholly apart from the busi-
ness of his life--on the contrary, I think that in priests
concerns—in his daily occupation—in all those trades and
professions which men exercise, religion should have an
influence and control. (Hear, hear. I say, therefore,
when 'peaking of the legislature of the county(, that in the
legislature which has to dispose of and control the various
interests of the country, reugion ought to influence and con-
trol Its deciaions—(hear, hear)—and hence I do not put this
lgori tto: as holding that civil employment and sesta in the
re are matters totally apart from religion ; but whatl
do wound is, that it is a mistake to 'awes, that by words
In an act of parliament, by a postaipt to a form of oath, or by
words added to the fag end of a declaration, yon ems
new, religious motives and obligations. (Hear, hear.) I
believe that I can prove that by the declaration you do not
gain that security which you pretend to obtain—that you do
aut out men who are conscientious and deserving, ar.d who
would execute the duties of their office, and exercise the
functions of legislation with a due regard to their oblige-
tion, but you do not shut out those whom you pretend to be
afraid to admit on account of their want of religion, and be-
cause you consider they would not feel bound to fulfil any
of its duties. As opposd to that doctrine, I say it must
depend on the general opinion of the country—on the state
of feeling—upon education, and upon the various religious
soft existing in the country, whether or not you will hare
• christian legislature. (Hest, hair.) For the sake of
illustration, I will take two different periods in the
history of the country. In the reigns of Charles the First
and of James the First there was a very strong religious fee ling
Cred the land—men were divided into different recta,
tvitthing was more remarkable than that this religious
fervour wasbound by Christian obligations. Suppose in the
legislature at that time were assembled such men u Falk.
land, Hobbes, and Boyle—men all considering themselves
bound by religious obligations—all professing to bold the
doctrines of Christianity—would it have afforded one bit
more security to the nation at that time, if men coming into
the legislature had been required to declare, " on the tree'
faith of a Christian ?" Would that have added in the
slightest degree to the security that those men were Christian
if at the end of the declarationthey had repeated those words?
Take another period when similar events occurred Sup-
pose towards the end of the last century, a legislature meet-
ing in France bad amongst its members aristocracy who
were disciples of Voltaire, and others who were disciples of
Rousseau, and that it contained also Mirabeau, Condoroet,
eirchb"Panienasseme. andbly7coeulodf that
not sort.
h goEvevrnerledbe"dbyy sees
hes thatob-
ligation, of religious truth ; but would it have
been any security for any one of these men to
have taken oath " on the true faith of a Christian ?"
Certainly not. I will take another instance from
what has actually happened in our own country. A
complaint is now nude that the Jews are the revilers of
Christianity, that they mock the Christianbeliever, that they
hold Christ to have been an impostor ; and yet was there
ever a man who more sneered at Chrietiartity—was there
ever a Jew in the last century who need such language to
depreciate the doctrines of Christianity, or to take away its
belief from the minds of the people, as Mr. Gibbon? And
Mr. Gibbon took your declaration, with the words " on
-es faith of a Christian," when he 1--"

', 184'

...Rine. ...As; I ;ham

feted the reign of that maestri'. Again, take Mr. Home,
secretary
this
and, as chargloessawasam, held
teach j
the honoureble members the university of Oxford
otltaiugofGeorgeb"naeTmerimmithaeMen*e'itdrd at the court of Pans. Can
(Sir E. Inglis) Jew', either in the last
ee present century who have written essays se calculated to
aiimine all belief is religion as Kr. Hume, and yet he
would have taken your declaration with a smile; and thus
your vaunted security soar struck at the root.? (Hear, hear.)
I hold that it is not by declarations of the kind you can ob
tain any security. You say that the legislature is to be a
Christian legislature—that parliament is to he • Christian
parliament; but do you not also say that this nation is a
Christian nation, and that the British people are a Christian
people ? In the same sense as you my that we are a nation
of Christians, although we have 30,000 Jews among_ our fel-
low-subjects, you may say that the parliament is a Christian
parliament, although among the 668 members there might
be some six orseven who professed the Jewish belief. (Hear.)
The general character of parliament must depend on the
sentiments of the people at large and of those who represent
them, and it is not by the mechanical contrivance of
putting in seven words in an set of parliament, and
haying it duly engrossed by the clerk, that you
secure religious obligations. (Hear, hear.) But I have
heard it said that, although there might have been such mil
instance as that of Mr. Gibbon sitting in this house and ineb:l
mitring himself to your deetaratioo, yet that this parliament
has from time immemorial been a Christian parliament, and
that Chriatianity is acknowledged to be part and parcel of
the law of the land. On that subject it appears to me that
great mistakes are made by those who thus refer to the
tory of our country. In our early history,e Jews were
persecuted in every mode and by every oontriranze of cruelty
and degradation. At one time they were forced to sur-
render all their property ; at another they were sent to
prison •at another they were tortured; and at last they
were binished the realm. Such was the treatment ef the
Jews ; but witk respect to the theory the law adopted, it
was not that every person should bee Christian, bat that
every member of the sommiltd
y should belong to the
church then universal in the ki om, via., the Roman ca-
tholic church. It is stated by lackstone, that the statute
heretico eorrsburendo is es old as the common law itself;
and what was the definition given by an ancient writer 'of
the word " heretic" ? Why that every man was • heretic
who did not adhere to the Roman catholic faith, or who de-
parted from it in any particular. Such, then, was the law of
the land—not in favour of Christianity, but in favour of the
particular religion then established in the realm. But in the
course of time the reformation came, and various sects arose.
The reformatiee was triumphant, and the Church of zur
land was established, but still heretics continued to tes
punished, and in the reign of Elizabeth they were sent te
the flames and burnt on account of their heresy. But about
that time there arose new distinctions, founded not on roll-
pions but very much on political differences. The Roman
catholic of that day, thinking that they had no chance of
supremacy front Elizabeth, entered into repeated conspiracies
to change the succession to the British throne, and in conse-
quence, for the first time, the words "on the true faith of a
Christian," were introduced in the act of Elizabeth. These
words were imposed not with reference to the Jews who
were then a dispersed and neglected race, but they were
intended to bind all the subjects of the realm who eojeyed
offices. The statute 3 James 1., c. 4, was passed immediately
after the discovery of the Gunpowder Plot, and was intituled
" An Act for the Utter Discovery and Punishment of Popish
Recusants," and it contained the words in question. This act
was followed by 7 James 1., which recites the former act and
required the same oath to be taken by all the knights, citi-
zens, burgesses, and barons of the Cinque Ports returned to
parliament. This showed clearly what was the intention
when there was inserted in the declaration the words " on
the true faith of a Christian." It was intended to be put to
those Roman catholic who bore true allegiance to the
crown as distinguished from those who were disaffected. It
was not designed with a view to exclude Jews. I have
stated thus much for the peeper* of showing that the intro-
duction of these words, and the establishment of any exclu-
sion, restriction' and disqualification, were founded upon
what were supposed then to be political disqualifications.
The same reasons prevailed—the mane grounds existed
in the time of James 11., when on political and
not religions reasons these exclusions were continued.
But there is another class, the protestant dissenters: were
they excluded on the ground of difference in religion ? By
no means. The ground of their exclurion is most ably
stated by Bishop Jewell, in a pamphlet which he wrote
when he was a young man, in defence of the Corporation and
Test Acts. He declares that " every person holding office
io the executive government, every member of the houses
of parliament, ought to be well affected towards the ecclesi-
astical constitution of these realms." (Hear, hear.) It war
not enough that he be well affected to the political and civil
constitution. but he ought likewise to be well affected to the
ecclesiastical constitution. (Hear, hear.) Those were the
grounds then upon which these religions disqualifications
were placed. They were never placed by the most able and
intelligent of their supporters on the ground that religious
opinion was a reason for disqualification. (Hear, bear.) In
earlier times a difference of religious opinion from the one
church established in the realm was a ground, not for disqua-
lification, but for that which, if you take the ground
of persecution, is much the better means of enforc-
ing conformity—namely capital punishment. (Cheers.)
But when the ground of 'political disqualification was taken,
when persons were excluded from parliament and from offies,
it was on the ground that as Roman catholic* they owed an
allegiance inconsistent with their allegiance to the king of
these realms ; or, if they were dissenters, that they were so
averse, so disaffected, if I may say so, to the ecclesiastical
constitution of these realms that the church could not be
secure unless they were excluded from office and from parlia-
ment. But, sir, whatever those reasons might be, in the
years 1828 and 1829, we removed all those
(Hear, hear.) Parliament declared in its wisdom that the
oatholica were no longer to be subject to the imputation that
their allegiance was divided, but that they were as well
qualified, with the exception of some offices connected with
our ecclesiastical constitution, as any other persons to sit in
parliament and to hold office. They declared likewise that
protestant dissenters should not be subject to the disqualifica-
tion which excluded them from corporations and from offices
(they had before been admitted to parliament) because
their old disaffection to the church establishment was ere
sufficient mend for depriving them of the honours and
rewards which belonged by right to the subjects
of these realms. (Hear, hear.) Well, then, sir, if that is
the ease, I submit to the house that this which is called the
Christian character of our constitution, if it has any existence
at all, has only an existence from the year 1829. Previous
to that year, the constitution excluded certain persoas, but
excluded them on the ground of their political and civil in-
ability to perform the duties of good subjects and good citi-
zens. Those disqualifications being removed, there remain
only certain words which are in the oath of abjuration, and
in the oath with respect to taking offices in corporations.
Now, I should submit, with regard to the words in the oath
of abjuration, as with regard to the words which I quoted
front the act of James the First, that they were introduced,
not for the purpose of exclusion, but for the purpose
of giving a superior an to that declaration. (Hear,
hear.) If it had been intended expressly to aloha& the
Jews—if it had been said by parliament—" Their religious
faith is so erronemm thot I deprives them of the right* of
British subjects,"—thse asathedld have had something like
the declaration against Izensiiistentistion, some declaration
of belief in the New Teldthlemt, or some direct words
implying their elniWillge lartrd of that, you have only,
as I have shoe* Odle tb pitheript to a declaration that
pa make chit itshardos stho true faith of a Chrfatian;
you have no din Vila of eselasion, and that exclaim
left to be inbreed oar ht the way. I have stated. (CY=
Now, sir, it fa again that Christianity is part and
of the law of the hand. I have always understood that site
edsration to men, as I have seen it interpreted by Sot
ham& jadats that if any writing or wee Wei re-
viling art ming the Christian IMO I ea
Ahem asalost Lona the land; that the were
gen of the laws of this country, that they formed part and
of the law of the land, and that therefore no such
man' or blaspheming language should escape without
punishment. But I never understood it to mean anything
beyond that ; aid I think it would be quite a new interpre-
tation of that doctrine to hold, that because Ch • ie
part of the law of the land, therefore every person Wile
Milos in the state must make a declaration that he tam
that declaration on the tree faith of a Christian. (Sur,
hear.) I think now, therefore, I have shows that
there is nothing in the laws of this ormatry
which was directly intended, and which mama to exclude
Chat, as eumforrroemectittidingegininfldParthililmehorant Wills 1"11.
to
you
have no security whateur—(hear, Out 4111.
aeration, which the scruples of theism him to re-
fuse, is taken at once by the man who utterly disbelieves in
that faith which is adduced to give a higher sanction to this
declaration. (Hear, hear.) If such be the case, then, let
us see further whether there Is any reason net founded in
our constitution, not founded in the laws of the country,
which should make you continue to exclude the Jew from
parliament and from office. One such ground bee been
stated : it is, that the Jews are a separate nation—that they
are aliens. But the Jews themselves utterly deny this alle-
gation ; they deny that they are a separate nation ; they my
that they below, to this country. (Cheers.) They say that
as the Jews in France belong to France, those In England
belong to England ; that they are ready to perform the duty'
of good subjects against all nations with which this country
may be at war; and they ask you, therefore, on what
grounds you treat them as aliens ? (Cheers.) But, again,
I say, if they are aliens, to what country do they belong?
When you exclude men from certain distinctions
because they are aliens what you mean thereby is this--
that there is another country, another, king, another com-
monwealth, to which his allegiance is owing ; that you
can-
not accept his divided allegiance, and therefore reject him
as an alien. (Hear, hear.) But who are these Jews—born
in England, whose families have lived for a century or a '
century and a half in England—who have their property,
their family ties, their lands, their connexions, everything
that is dear to them, in England—to what country, king, or
commonwealth, have they to resort, in order that. their
allegiance may be due thereto ? To none whatever.
(Cheers.) It is obvious to all the world that their attach-
ment is to England, and that no foreign country has the
power of commanding that allegiance, or seeking from them
that support, which they are ready to give to us. (Hear,
hear.) But then we are told--and told in what I must say
"Coat:bleu:m*B"T tot say, lsawyk, 'a‘tYthoueirnewvne;
diistiralerAsanthinesuliatt.thaniar.
But is there not a
see a Jew employed in retail trades, or adopting any of the
venal trades whiciiiy.n.huhdC:hltdiritstis
?rsaeafloithiratin,thbYeLJurow;wshDnoialldadwyosbeu?
dr((Ceasei.qh7nairLfoilredthDisivoid;
• in many cities, even in the City a London,
,prevent
• VII erorririncr retail trader rhwore What .;she
norogort:withrediyoulliloy.,,