The Express.
London, England, 1847-02-16 00:00:00

iAILWAYB.

Lad ASHBURTON, am ads retants re-
Wtailer iys Oa Lake, oil Bair lord.
ere aware that there later' a coseitiorabie drain of
from the Beaks, Ragland kw saw swathe pon.
r*Mke did not wish tit arytklai that LOA
im la the country, et Mat then 'mum Ilan aim
ural in the mares et things, yet mMr' the
eondition of the circulation of the country night have been.
affected by the absorption of money in milways. The
governsbett would have in arms way or other to borrow
money, sad yet: bsuch • elate of things, millions were
toned about withlovity. Under the present oiteumatances
of the cenn•ry, therefore, he thought it right that-their lord-
ships should have infarmation on the subject.
Lord MONTRAGLE agreed with the 'orbit lord that it
was the duty of parliament to withhold their heads as to
further railway apsealation.
Lord BROUGHAM agreed with the noble lord on the
subject of railways, but after this session there would he but
little railway Noises' before parliament, and the measure
which was soon to come up to their lordships would be in
effect locking the door after the steed had been lost.
After a few words from Earl GRANYILLIL which were
Inaudible,
Lord ASHBURTON, in postponing his motion until
Thursday, said he did not feel any alarm as to the state of
the country, in a monetary. point of view; he only wished
parliament to be in poseenton of information *Welt might
avert alarm.
The Earl of RADNOR objected to inquiring into the pri-
vate concerns of the bank. What right had they to inquire
into the nature of their railway securities more than into any
other securities ?
MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS.
A message from the Commons brought up the Sugar in
Distilleries Bill.
IRISH PAUPERS (LIVERPOOL).
The Earl of FITZWILLIAM moved that the returns front
Liverpool as to the number of Irish paupers be printed. It
appeared that on the 7th of this month, in one day. 2,555
had arrived, and the total number who had arrived between
the 13th of January and the 11th of February was 27,012.
On the 26th of January 25,000 were relieved with soup and
bread, and on a subsequent occasion 26,000 were similarly
supplied at one tone, but daring the last ten days the
number had decreased to between seven and eight thousand.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH thought it would be
very dairsble to hem a rmisrn of the number of Irish
emigrants to America and the colonies.
Lord STANLEY said that they did not bezin to emigrate
until about Marsh, and needy the whole of those who had
come over sought to obtain relief.
The Duke of WELLINGTON thought there was a great
deal of information in the paper, and therefore it had better
be printed.
Earl GREY said the noble lord opposite (Lord Stanley)
way wrong in saying that no emigration had yet taken place,
inasmuch as between sic and seven thousand Irish bad gone
from Liverpool to the United States this year. Us believed
the emigration of the pewit' year would be very great.
A NOBLE LORD suggested Omit retains from other ports
should be made. He understood a great number of Irish
paupers bad been landed at Newport, in Moomouthshire.
Earl GREY thought it would be almost impossible to
obtain them.
The Earl of PITZWILLIAM postponed his motion for a
day or two.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
The Earl of CLARENDON would propose that the Suter
in Distilleries Bill, and the Use of Sager In Breweries Bill
oltaalt be iesd a irevertartamilorrow, and the iliscreseles
on each taken in committee.

DESTITUTE PERSONS (IRELAND) BILL.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE rose to propose the second
rending of the Destitute Persona (Ireland) Bill, which wasthe
first of a series of measures about to come before their lordships.
Having before stated the nature of the bill, it would only
be necessary for him to supply the general detailsvery briefly.
And first he would my that the bill was limited in its cha-
racter and temporary in its duration; and, in fact, it could
only be justified by thepresent state of Ireland. The cir-
cumstances which demanded it were the probable insuffi-
ciency of any demand for labour dyeing the next six months
and the extreme difficulty which the poor found in obtaining
provisions. It had been thought desirable to suspend the
public works in Ireland, in consequence of whiehthere would
be for some months before the measures to be submitted to
their lordships came into operation—and which measures he
trusted would create a greater amount of, ands more regular
demand for, labour—yet in the intermediate time most
probably a large and pressing amount of destitution would
be fined to exist, for which it was the fluty of the legislature
to piovids. (Hear, hear.) By the bill before their lord-
ships the lord lieut meat would be enabled to appoint a re-
lict commission to sit in Dublin, for the purpose of giving
general direct;ons • and such commission, from the manner
in which it was piommed to be constituted, would be well
adapted for the functions it would have to perform. (Hear,
hear.) It was further proposed that relief committees
should be appointed in different parts of Ireland, under the
authority of the lord lieutenant, and that such committees, in
each electors] division, should provide, where it wasnecessary,
relief to the destitute poor—tbe guardians and magistrates
in each division being ex officio members of such committees.
There would be • power to grant loans on the rates. To
provide sums necessary for the supply of food, rates might
be levied, and loans made on those rates by the Treasury.
Aid would also be given by the Lords of the Treasury, where
it night be thought necessary, in proportion se the urgency
of the case might require, without such aid being limited, as
was at first proposed. There was also a provision in the bill
that food should be sold where purchasers could be found.
He trusted, therefore, that their lordships would assent to
the second reading of the bill. (Hear, hear, hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM was glad to have witnessed the ab-
sence of every thing factious with reference to the bill before
their lordships, and the general calmness with which the
measures affecting Ireland had been discussed. (Hear.) He
must, however, repeat what he had stated at the commence-
ment of the session, that, as the government proposed to re-
lieve the existing distress in Ireland by legislative measures,
the parliament ought to have assembled earlier in the year.
They were now met in the middle of February. to carry out
measures for which the same deplorable necessity existed in
the middle of November. They should for the same reason
have !yen sitting then. They were told that it would be in-
jurious to bring over the Irish members at that time : but,
for the same maim, they Mould not bring them over now.
They could, besides, do, by the means of their agents, that
which they were then doing themselves. They employed
themselves in one district in ejecting 6,400 persons from
their property, 4,000 of whom were ejected for the non-pay-
ment of rent, in the middle of one of the meet severe winters
that ever was known, and in the height of a famine and a
threatening pestilence. This unquestionable right of the
landlord was carried into effect when the people had no
labour to procure wages, and when there was no food in the
country, or money to buy it. He begged leave again to re-
' iterate his general objection to all systems and all measures
of relief which proceeded in the assumption of the doctrine
in which this measure was founded. He certainly held the
opinion that it was no part, generally speaking, of the duty
of any government to feed the people of any country, or to
provide them with either food, wages, or labour, but that
it was the duty of every government to secure the
rights of labour and of property, and to endeavour
to smooth away every obstacle and every irape .invent that
the law may interpose which may render it difficult for them
to obtain employment. it was his opinion that the govern-
ment hod no obligation imposed on it to provide either food
or labour for the people, for they would then be relieving
one portion of the people at the expense of the other. Per-
haps if he himself were in the position which the govern-
ment held, be would not be able to resist the over-
whelming weight which his own feelings and the
cry of hunger would impose on him. But they
should fake care that under the overwhelming opera-
tion of this unheard-of and unparalleled emergency
what they did was not to make things worse, and to do
harm instead of good. This depended on the character of
the mischief, and the nature of the measure. The government
was now a competitor in the labour market with the landlord,
who made a natural and wholesome demand for it. Theconse-
quenee would be, that, long after the famine was over, the
mischief would continue, deep-rooted, to affect the country,
and to cast its baneful influence over it. He did not wish to
1, oppose this step, but he wished that the government would
act scrupulous:ly, sparingly, and reluctantly, in giving relief.
He well knew that the Irishman had not such a
dogged steady determination to work for his own
support as the Englishman had, and had not the
pride of the Se:nehmen to hinder him from begging. The
Scotchman would rather lie down and die than beg. The
principle of the government should be to give gratuitous re-
ref is no ease until it should be ascertained that the appli-
cant could not in any way, be any exertion of his
own, obtain employment, and, therefore, wages to pro-
cure food. Under such ercumnanees as the present
it would be impossible to carry out that principle.

He then allookul to the condont of the Misses Onkel', of
Wskeiield, who bad broken up their establishment in this'
country, and gone to reside nn their Irish estates, with •
view to see that the pour were properly eared fur. L..dy
Carbery, also, had mud in a most praiseworthy manner,
having curtailed the expenses of her own establishment fur
the sake of relieving the destitute. Them charitable per
inne testi& d, from their own observation, that one-third of
the matey expended by the government was wasted upon
undeserving objects. This was neemeartly the case, and
would continue to be so. It was alleged, on the other side
the Irish Channel, that the distr.'s of the people was owing
to the union; but in proof the similar distress prevailed
in the days of that most patriotic bDdy, the parliament of
College-green, he read • letter from Lord Chancellor Jocelyn
to Lord Chancellor Harvey, written in 1741, depicting in
frightful colours the state of the Irish people from famine
and disease. Recollecting what had been the state of that
country at intervals ever since, the fear naturally arose,
that any legilative measures must fail in applyinsr a remedy
to the evil. Of the measures now proposed, the financial
pact was very questionable. This country naturally looked
repayment of the advances to be made; he hoped this
would be the e se, but be had his fears. Irishmen themselves
expressed their full intention and desire that the loans should
he repaid, but he had never met with one man who would
say that the repayment would be made. Notwithstanding the
advantages whoth Irish landlords enjoyed in their exemptiou
from assessed taxes, income-tax, police-tax, and poor rate
until recently, the moment that distress came upon the
people they were sent by ship-loads to this country, and
we were at the same time called upon for heavy advances for
Urns remaining in Ireland. At any rate, something must
sanely be done to prevent such scenes as were now taking
Saws MI the wr t coast of this country. 27,000 Trish people
had OM* over to Liverpool in thirty days ; and these were
not maigrants, as had been represented, bet professional
vagrants and begmrs. (Hear.) He feared that there had
been • great deal of irnmudeuce amongst the Irish in the
t of their own concerns, for he understaod that
ampere reoportion of the land in that country was under
weelsoie than in any other country in the world. Taking
the eiengete rota of the land at fourteen or fifteen
sailllsms, of this sum five or six millions went into the hands
of the mortgagees. This was peculiarly unfortunate in a
season of distress like the present, for the mortgagees, not
caring a button for the potato disease, would bare their inte-
rest, happen what would. (Hear.) He trusted some means
would he devised of risathing this class and of protecting the
remainder-men. It might be indelicate, in individual cases,
while administering relief, to upbraid end censure the con-
duct ; but where* nation sued In,
tee to charity it was the duty of
point out what they thought had been wrong.
kliklf,Ll of LUCAN wished vs ask the Noble sad leaned
leed who had just eat down where the ejetramesda re which
he had alluded had taken place, and on what authority he
made the statement ?
Lord BROUGHAM mid it was in the county of Meath.
His authority was that of his right hon. friend the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, who hail made the 'torment in his
place in the House of Commons, iu the debate on Friday
night ; and it was not gainsaid by any human being who
heard it. Indeed, ho had stated it trans an official return.
The Earl of LUCAN said he had supposed this statement
of the noble and learned lord to he a repetition of the allu-
sion made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer on Friday
night. But the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not stated
that there had been 4,000 ejectments, or any ejectmenls
at all.

Lord BROUGHAV—Four thousand ejeetments.
The Earl of LUC AN—The right hon. gentleman had
stated that, at the la,. quarter sessions at Balliorobe, which
waaperfeetly true, the eitratudinary numbcrof 6,200 procaine*
had been taken out from which the inference had been
drawn that there had been that number of ejeetavents from
land. But every one knew that these "processes" were not
for ejectments from land, but were taken out by middle men
for censure rent. The noble and 'famed lord had expresved
his gratifiration at the general good feeling which prevailed
on both sides of the channel in reference to this subject, but
certainly the speech he had just delivered would not tend to
promote that good feeling; for a more acrimonious speech
towards the Irivh people had never been made. He (Lord
Lnean) hoped he had shown the house that the statement
about 4,000 families bring ejected from their homes in this
inclement weather was not proved, nor shown to he probable,
nor, he hoped, believed. He himself did not believe a word
of it.

Lord STANLEY said, he lied no intention to offer any
opposition or obstruction to the towing of this bill. As a
temporary measure, it was not to be judged by the rules of
political economy, nor even by the ordinary principles which
were applied to legislative measures. (hear, hear.) Had
it been submitted as anything but a temporary measure, and
one called for by the pressure of greet calamity, so far from
its receiving the unanimous sanction of both houses, it would
have bees exceedingly difficult to find a member in either
hones willing to undertake the responsibility of introducing
it, . His noble and learned fnend behind him Lord
Brougham) had thrown too indiscriminate a condemnation
upon the character of Irish proprietors; and 'biometry ought
to understand the positions/ hich the Irish landlords and propri-
etors had voluntarily consented to occupy, by submitting to
the provisions of this bill, in order to relieve the distress in
their own neighbourhood. Never had so unlimited, uncon-
trolled, absolute, and dictatorial &power been conferred upon
any government as was given by this bill. An absolute and
unrestricted power of toed taxation. and an almost unlimited
power of making advances from she public treasury, were
given almost without stint or control to the executive govern-
ment alone. Yet, for the purpose of meeting the present distress
to such an extent had the beneficence of the Irish landlords,
gone, that, rather than incur perils and evils of starvation
amongst their people, they hail consented, without murmur
or ?bodics, to entrust toe committee so appointed, the un-
limited and unrestricted power of taxing them to the whole
anemat of their property. Whatever faults might be found
with the Irish Undlonts, .flee making math a sseriflee, this
was the moment of all others, when they lead deserved to
have it imputed to them that they were indifferent to the
sufferings of their people, or were unwilling to take
upon their shoulders the full amount of the burden they
could be called on to bear. (Hear.) With regard to
the British public also, this hill gave the most extraordinary
powers. For the first time, an unlimited power was graired
to the executive of disposing of Plinth money for the relief
of distress. There was a loan of 300,0001. ; but over and
above that loan, the 17th clause of the act authorised the
commissioners of the treasury to nuke grants in aid of rates
art contributions. No doubt this bill was of a most exceptional
and exceptionable character; it violated all the rules of
political economy ; it might possibly run the risk of creating
leaving behind it some evil, notwithstandingthe amount
of good it would do in remedying the present distress ;
it might cause habits of dependence on public support to be
ogre general than at present ; but all these considerations
mom bs overlooked. Their lordships had overlooked them ;
the other house of parliament had done the lame, before
the one parsonount consideration, that the people of Ire-
land must not be allowed to starve, so long as it
was in the power of this country to relieve them.
He spoke it to the credit of the Irish proprietors, that there
bad not been one word of complaint as to the extent to
which the whole of their property would be encumbered
atd taxed under the provisions of this bill by the irrespon-
sible authority of the executive government of Ireland.
(Hear, hear.) There was one pronun of this bill which if
Foible was more objectionable than any other. He alluded
to the provision which gave powers such as never before were
invested in any irresponsible body—that of enabling the
lord-lieutenant to declare according to his will and pleasure
who should be liable to contribute fond and be calks' upon
to pay under this bill. If the bill provided that the lord-
lieutenant should have power to prescribe that the land-
lord in every district should provide for all the destitute
persona that should be found upon his property to any extent
to which that property should go, such a provision would be
infinitely lees objectionable and lea dangerous than that
which conferred open the lord-lieutenant the power of say-
ing not that A should pay for A, or B for B, but that A B
and C should be conjointly liable for the support of the des-
titute in a district within which C was not responsible for a
single coeugiaim (Hear, bear.) Such powers would be
pest if exercised under the law, and they were enormous to
be Invested in the discretion of any simony e government. Ob-
jectionable as this bill was, he
(ILord 8.) thought it was better
that its provisions should be eft upon the responsibility of
the government than that their lordships should undertake
to alter them in any way. Apart from the considera-
tion of this measure, he (Lord Stanley) rose to express a
hope that in the proportion that Irish proprietors and the
numbers of both houses of parliament met the views of hsr
=bisty's government to legislate for a temporary but for-
e emergency, the government would in the same de-
ipres exercise a due caution in respect to any proposition they
sight prepare for the permanent improvement of the condi-
tion of Ireland. Depend upon it that nothing could be more
i fatal than the passing by a British parliament of a measure
of poor-law relief, which should be condemned by the ma-
jonty of the representative: of the Irish people. (Hear,
hear.) He trusted therefore, that although that question
was not yet before their lordships, he might be permitted,
in no spirit of hostility but rather with a view to
offer suggestions on points deserving the gravest
consideration to refer to three or four provisions of the
means by which the government proposed to provide
a permanent poor-law for Ireland. The measure to which
the assent of the legislation was asked would introduce, for
the first time into Ireland, as absolute right to relief. The
bill, sa it stood, not merely authorised but required the boards
of guardians to make provision for all persons permanently
disabled, the aged, the infirm, and so forth, either
within or withot.t the workhouse as to them might seem
tit. The existing law gave to the guardians permeation or
authority to relieve within the workhouse only. The new
measureproposedto go further, and to authorise that pro-
vision should be made by the guardians for the able-bodied
either within or in certain cases without the doors of the
workhouses. (Hear, hear.) In abort, the bill would
authorise the poor-law commissioners to require the boards
of guardians to provide for the able-bodied paupers
out of the workhouses. That provision might be
necessary, but it is one with respect to which much might be
said on both sides, and which ought to be watched with the
greatest possible caution. The point to which he wished to
tall the attention of their lordships, and of her Majerty's
shout
ei.nxt,.whaseath,yis,b.—rdths,nt
.up.nderthtlasis
tinak.dameesnreattyluaderere.
and to require that they should support the great body of
their destitute poor. sow, it was not unworthy considens-
lien, whether, regard being bad to the constitation of the
boards of guardians, en equally wise and safe mods might
not be adopted of giving a more extended aid sad a greater
relief. The bill would impose upon Ireland neatly the are
amount of burden which, under the pose-laws, Ragland
was now called upon to contribute ; and, therefore, he
contended that the same protection agaiast abases
and wasteful expenditure ought to be afforded to
the Irish ratepayer as was afforded to the sans dim in
England. (Hear, hear,) The constitution of the Boards of
Guardians in the two countries differed in two paints. In
England the board comprised the middling but subtends'
chum of farmers—a class, he lamented to say, which is Ire-
land
was most deficient in the number of its representa-
tives. Hence the power devolved in Ireland upon men of
a lower and poorer bass than constituted the boards of guar-

diens in England--upon a elata.hut littlelabeve the labourers
themselves who might be applicants for relief. That being
en, it might be well to ceresi whether it would not be wise
that there should be interposed haws en thu; s ass and those
upon whom the heavy burden must ev.ntutilly fall,
a protection against abuse and wasteful expenditure,
a protection which in England was afforded by an unlimited
number of ex officio guardians, while in Ireland the number
of those functionaries was proposed to be prescribed. (Hear,
hear.) It was rigkt that those who would have to pay the
tax imposed by a poor-rate should have a preponderating
voice in the measure of taxation, and if a board was con-
stituted of but one-third of that class, the remaining two-
thirds would have the greater temptation to yield to profli-
gate and wasteful expenditure. (Hear, hear.) The great
object in Ireland was to raise • class of farmers who
should themselves be the employers of labourers, and
the inducement to such a system would be to keep
the labourers out of the poor-ratea and which would
under any pressure be a wholesome and the only safe
check to improvident expenditure. Whatever might be
said against the Irish landlords, he (Lord Stanley) was ea-
tiefied there was more justice and good sense in England
than to seek, under any pressure, to impose or them
burdens which, under similar circumstances, the landlords
of England ought not to bear. Neither would they say to
Irish landlords—. You shall have no voice in the assess-
ment of the rates, nor in the arrangement of the persons who
are to pay the same." In other words, the farmers would
not have any inducement to employ labourers n hen by their
votes they might be relieved from the burden of rates, while
on the other hand the estates of the landlords might by the
pressure of these hardens be confiscated under the operation
of such a law. (Hear, hear.) There were also other points
upon which the rate to which he new alluded touched, and
Ito which he thought the attention of their lordships ought
to be directed. One of these was all-important, namely, the
provision which throws the whole burden of-on the union,
rather than upon the division. He admitted that the town-
lee& were too small, and that the electoral divisions were
too large; and he was sure of this, that if the liability of the
landed proprietor was still further extended—if from the
electoral divisions the burden of relief and taxation was
thrown upon the unions in Ireland, from that moment there
would be as end to all inducement to the landlord to take
the smallest part in the management of poor-law affairs.
(Hear, hear.) He spoke now as an Irish proprietor, but how
long he should continue so he should hesitate to state,
before he saw the decision of the legislation upon
this provision of the bill submitted to its eonsi4eration by
her Majesty's government. (Hear, hear.) There remained
another point which he thought right to notice at this early
period, rather than to defer it until the measure itself came
neliare their lordships. He tr. hexed that in Englandeeit
:erg Beard Onnedlans, so won was dallied to -
e
lute or entitled to relief who was the occupier or possesses. Of
any land. He did nut mean land irufScient for a garden, or
comprised in half &nacre. He (Lord Stanley) did not Imaltate
to &Clare, that if the legislature sanctioned the unionoT the
character of pauper and farmer, they would ruin the country.
Some restriction( by law was required, and nothing could
be more mischievous, or tending to obstruct the permanent
improvement of Ireland, than to encourage persons possessed
of two, three, or four acres of laud, to hold their land,
at the same time that they were deriving emistance from the
poor.rates of their parish. (Hear.) A return now on the table
of the house showed that, out of about 8,43,000 occupiers
of load In Ireland, no less than about 400,000 occupied less
than seven acres each. Now this, of itself, was an obstacle
in the way of the improvement of Ireland, but when the
legislature went to make a provision by low for all the
destitute—when it seeks to provide by taxing the country for
this relief, it appeared to him (Lord Stanley) to be reason-
able and necessary that the men co circumstanced should, at
all events, have the option tendered to them of receiving re-
lief on the condition of surrendering the land they held.—
(Hear, hear.) This, he was satisfisci, would be the first step
towards the improvement of Ireland ; and, unless some si.h
rule was rigidly enforced, the owners of property could not
justly be called mon to discharge the duties of property
whilst the rights of property, that of improving the land,
were neglected. He mentioned these points now in the
hope that her Majesty's government would take them into
their earliest consideration.

The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL defended the landlords ne
Ireland against the attacks made upon them by Lord
Brougham.
Earl FITZWILLIAM wee extremely grateful to the
noble lord opposita (Lori Stanley) for the reference he had
made to a a enure which, though highly important to Ire-
land, was not yet formally before the house.
Lord MONTEAGLE also expreued his concurrence
in the views of his noble friend opposite (Lord Stanley).
Lord BROUGHAM said his great objection to giving
persona a right to obT4oer relief was that it destroyed the
character of the people. A person who would be ashamed
to beg would not be ashamed to claim out-door relief as a
matter of right.
Lord CAMPBELL did not wish to institute any compari-
son between the Scotch and the Irish. He was afraid that
poor people all °lv the world would rather be idle than
work, and that theWer of 7:iteus relief was universally
densaralieing. (Hear, hear.
The Marquis of LAMB° E said be entirely concurred
with the noble and learned lord (Lord Broughant), that
there was a conflict between the provisions of this bill, and
all sound principles es regarded relief. (Hear, hear.) That
was a declaration which he could not too often repeat, be-
cause be knew how easy it was for objectionable priaeiples
to creep into legislative', whilst those who sanctioned them
were at first unaware of the magnitude of the cost. The
yr...visions of the hill, in relation to oute:oor relief, souk'
only be justifiable for a short period. He could not, how-
ever, view such a mass of humanity in a state of suffering
and destitution, without b inn prepared to administer tem-
porary, partial, and, as he trusted it would prove, efficient
relief. He believed that without the machinery of this
there would be an absolute extinction of life in
thousands of instances, (Hear, hear.) When told that the
Labour-Rate Act had failed, he must say in reply that, not-
withstanding the abuses under it, he could not bring him-
self to wish that it had not been passed. (Hear, hear.) On
the contrary, he thought that if that act had not been
adopted by this time half a million or a million persons
would have perished, fur whose death that and the other
House of Parliament would have been accountable. The noble
lord (Lord Stanley), had rendered an important service
by the suggestions which he had thrown out—suggestions
which deserved the calm, cautious, and careful deliberation
of the legislature. In many of those suggestions be entirely
concurred. More particularly did he consider that
any bill for the permanent extension of a poor-law in
Ireland, would require a re-consideration of the consti-
tution of the IMard of Guardians, and that the
greatest security must be provided for having such a
law properly, carefully, and soundly administered. As
regarded the division of aistriets with a view to rating, he had
stated on a former occasion, end would row repeat, that no
intention was entertained by the government of eemmitting
parliament on that question. (Hear.) He agreed with his
noble friend that by no means ought they to discourage
the efforts of proprietors, upon which mainly depended the
proper applicatuft of labour in Ireland, and the carrying out
of these great national improvements which the unhappy
failure of one species of sustecance, and the necessity of sub-
stituting others, imperatively required. At every step made
towards out-door relief, which it was not intended to admit
as a right, because to admit it as a right would be the sub-
version of all property, and en obstacle to the future happi-
ness of the people of Ireland—at every step which partook
in the slightest degree of that character, they ought
to act with the greatest caution. They were bound to
give the safecuards suggested by his noble friend
(Lord Stanley) the most mature and anxious consideration.
(Hear, hear.) He (the Marquis of Lansdowne) held the
workhouse test to be a most essential principle; and under
the permanent bill (as was understood) persona in the occu-
pation of land were not to be entitled to relief.
The bill was then read a second time, and their lordships
adjourned at half-past nine.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, FEB. IS.
The SPEAKER took the chair shortly before four o'clock.
PRIVATE MENEM.
SECOND READlNGS.—Birmaibead Improveroent (Waterworks tad
parttime of Birkenhead and (naught. Waterworks), Rebid sad
Clifton Oil Gin Company, Brinell Exchange Company, Onladlenian
Railway (Edinburgh *tattoo and ameba to Grantee, as i .I.loire a
Wne. in Railway }AlCllaida (Ouskridse Si is. Ikelets
Counties Railway Cambridge, Upton, sag Wino ), OW.
gow, Paisley, sad Greenock Railway (krandiserat fort mg
to the Caledonian Railway and die readan II and), lasas,alalloM,
and Midland Junction ItailloWirelgh Hu Ind Dabs Doak
Landon and North-Western (aunt and Wolverhampton
breech,
breach, dc.), Loudon and North. eras Reams (Ormottrt the
itilnford branch, foe.), Plymouth and ?Babb& Tanspike ]bad,
WU/wiry and Yeovil Railway, titiellield Markets, Shipley Gee WS
Company, Whiteburn and Retro and Leeds and Echo Roods, Wog.
rerhamptoo OW'S woleerbametna Rates, BIS.
PUBLIC auguries.
PETMONS.—Py Mr. Itmiticx. tram Jaha Bogra,:eara
the county Of Limerick, compLsining of dialaillfilloat ow
public works in Ireland, in consequent* ef ilseilateasset
and base the ticerinv in the swoolaa of his h.*, t nab poroloi
bidding Ind, be being totally Osaka te, ewe astiwood to Ills* sm.
ti Plt the said works. 081. Itawwws, hos grawgh, la brow
A,rdenonG. Bentinelia Railway DX.
RETURNS ORDERED.—Os dr mem of Mr. Commies
011itise, of Colonel Josses War le Mr. Tesvdlian, dated the
Mk silk 6a/if , 1616, warned to la Mr. Tetwolitalt Wier of
dr Id of thwoutor, 1346.-0 a the mawmawlk Wausau May,
Mora pigtails the ecstasies ef tke bat MY Oamassm shwa-
lag whet asses have been takes gm MO to 11111111,- GNI oda-
vales staid in India, with the pmetbahrs and melt et my age.
rhumb whisk lave been made by the all arpay. loth a Mow to
Isfahan So growth of amerbsa cotton, an to owootwav the pro.
disdes of mew 11111011111111
*glom Is ilia—On the mattes slits awry en..
taro of the gamllty at sable wool exported EMIR SW
1111•111•111 w liana fa oak gm barb* Walsh ths aware boo boss
3,04., kegt, Ow pogo ken Midi As Womb were maim Me
/meshy at mob port, wiles somedis *villa Ow Weis
an sod Sae shlessisla to oath woe"
OF DIOTION.—Loss Rom (loom Ass) 11ea.,--81e.
saw, to Osowdbee no Pew Belief (Irolowd) /111. to now ammo
meats.
lowa tattarasa—lir. TS. 01CDOILXF. to mew Oa the event of Lad
=heetteak's Bill being defeated) a rooots to. the Wog that
the. test mum of swantieg tho polio of Mimi wail be to
orstiract anima en easel *idea es the grammes% might he sii-
Sand, and which wadi estemdentespleestethesellmat reemmes.
CANTUMAII toton.—Mr. P. Senses lo•martoor (Ms dig) to set the
Baster
aft Secretary whether lowa pimilleas le loologg o ogag
Ys k the reliefkenissr,ssd of
if es, skstkar Ike gasean Obi
si Obi
Coadolur anion are not to to Matted by the govemment kr retailing
to administer relief.
SHEFFIELD CANAL BILL.
On the motion that this bill be read a second time,
Viscount MORPETH objected that the proposed bill was
In contravention of the Highway Act, and threw an addi-
tional burden on certain townships ; and also, that by this
bill it sea sought to relieve the Canal Company from certain
liabilities which they had incurred. Alter a discussion, in
which Mr. Parker, Mr. S. Dodgem, Mr. Brotherton, Mr. P.
Egerton, Mr. J. S. Wortley, 'Mr. Strutt, Mr. Stanfield, Mr.
Ward, Mr. E. Denison, and Col. More took part,
Viscount MOItPIiTU moved that the bill be real a teeoad
time that day six montlm.
The house divided,—For the motion
Againat it
- CASTLEDAN UNION.
Lord DUNCAN wished to put a question to the Home
ecretary. It was reported in the public prints that the
cord-Lieutenant, and twelve of the magistrates of the go•::sty

Maya, had been sli.mimeed from the board of guardians of
the Civtiebar Union by the government. He wished to ask
if that was correct, and, if comet, what steps had been
taken to supply their places, to collect the arrears of pool,-
rates due in mid union, and to levy a future rate ?
Sir 0. GREY replied that it wan quite true these parties
had been diseniesed ; but they had been dismissed, not by the
government, but by the poor-Lau commissioners,
who whocould, bad
powers under their act fur such dismissals, and w
under the same act, :apply the sacaucies after a second fail-
ure, by appointing a body of paid commissioners. Some
paper. upon the subject would be laid before the house in
a few days.
Mr. P. SCROPE wished to ask whether any prosecution
had been instituted, or was intended to be instituted, by the
government in the cases of those parties who bad shut up
their workhouse for three months and refused relief to the
paupers who applied, the consequence of which was deaths
from starvation in that union, to the infinitu disgrace, as he
conceived, of these authorities ?
Sir G. GREY was in possession of no information leading
him to suppnse that any sues prosecution had been or would
be instituted.
THE WELLINGTON STATUE.
Mr. C. BERKELEY hoped that he should have an
explicit and intelligible answer to the following questions
" Whether any application had been made to the Woods
and Fonds by the Committee of the Wellington Statue to
remove the ir.affoliling round the arch at Hyde Park Corner;
if so, at whose expense such removal was to take place ; and
whether any stipulatiou had been made with the committee
for the re-erection of Um seaffolniug, and the ultimate
removal of the statue ? "
Viscount AIORPETH begged to state, in reply, that he
had received an intimation from the sub-committee of the We-
llington statue that they had given direction: to the sculptor
to remove any remai
obstructed the view of the statue from the north, or Picca-
dilly side of the park—(much laughter)—as they conceived a
sufficiently good view had nut been obtained at present to
enable the government fairly to judge of the merits of this
work of art upon its present position. (Renewed laughter.)
Certainly the government had been of opinion that a suffi-
ciently good view had been obtained without further ahem
tion—(bear, hear) —but that was a matter which they left Be
the sutecommittee and the sculptor. He (Lord Morpeth)
should add, that the nub-committee had stated, in the Ye
communication, that if the government, after the rassawi d''
the scaffolding, were still of opinion that the status timid
be removed, the subcommittee would feel themselves bound
to act accordingly ; of course, replacing the Waft and
removing the statue at their own cost. They ( go-
vernment) would be sorry that any additional or unessemary
expense should be incurred, but of course this was a question
for the committee rather than for himself. He might take
this opportunity of adding, that on • et view of the different
sites oil which ttns statue might be placed, they were of
opinion that the north side of Waterloo-place was the meth
eligible position, as being the place where the best light I
could be obtained.
Mr. MACKINNON wished to ask the noble lord whether
he was aware that among the ancients—(a laugh)—it was
considered a great indignity to remove a statue erected to
the honour or memory of any man, and if he was aware
that at Pompeii—(loud laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh.")—
a statue bad been found precisely in thesame attitude—(loud
Isoghter)—and placed over an arch precisely in the same
manner as the Wellingkin statue ? If the noble lord had
seen it he should be happy to show him a print of it.
Viscount MORPETH said that whatever might be the opi-
nionof autiquity he did not think it would, in this country, be
considered an indignity to remove a statue from a place
where its appearance was considered to be decidedly dis-
advantageous ; and, with respect to the illustration of the
hon. member, he might remark that, in the days of Pompeii,
art was certainly not supposed to be in its most palmy state.
and that statues there were also liable to snore violent
methods of displacement. (Laughter and cheers.)

FACTORIES.
Sir W. JAMES asked whether government intended, in
conformity with the recommendations of the factory in-
spectors, to amend the Factory Act with regard to the edu-
cation of children in print works, the cuing and the
nog the the machinery in mills, and the employment of ch
below the age of 13 in silk mills?
Sir G. GREY said that on the first point the views el
government had ben explained ; on the second, the in-
spectors of factories had unanimously recommended that a
change should take place, and a bill would be proposed with
that object ; with regard to the third point, it vas not in-
tended to propose any measure without further inatdry.
Mr. BRIGHT asked if there was not a power given to the
inspectors in the Factory Act to oblige masters to case off
and guard the machinery which they considered to be
dangerous?
Sir G. GREY replied in the affirmative, but said the pro-
vision was a general one, and was considered defective. Of
course, if it turned out that the act gave sufficient powers, I
there would be no occasion for a new bill.
COST OF THE PUBLIC WORKS, &c., IN IRELAND.
In reply to Lord G. BENTINCK.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
number of officers employed on the public works, other than
the destitute poor, am punted to 10,897, and their daily pay
amounted to 2,7741., which, multiplied by 6, would give
their weekly pay. The highest rate of pay was to officers
of the engineers, who received 30s. a day, with their travel-
ling expenses, and ten shillings a day extra when limn home.
The lowest sum tad was to overseers of works, who received
2s. a day. The &mould of the cast of maintaining this staff
amounted to 78 0301. fee four weeks. Of that amount, how-
ever, 20,8001. was paid from other sources • but there were
extra expenses, the precise amount of which he could not
state. The average weekly wages paid to the destitute poor
might be taken at from Bd. to Is. Id. The gross amount of
payment in maintaining the destitute poor during the nine
weeks of November and December wan 1,030,000 f. The
next inquiry. was as to the quantity of corn imported by
government into Ireland. It appeared that up to the middle
of 'snowy they had imported 218,000 quarters. The noble
lord also wanted en know what quantity had been given out;
but to this question he could not reply, as most of the pro-
vision-stores had only been opened at the end of December,
and as the distribution bad ance been going on from day to
day. The big question of the nolie lord was, what was the
ratio of the expenses of the staff to the expenses of the per-
sons employed. Now to this he (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) could not give a precise answer.
RAILWAYS (IRELAND).—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
The order of the day for the resumption of the adjourned
debate having been read.
The Marquis of GRANBY rose. He commenced by re-
gretting the course government had pursued in making this
a party question. Whether the distresses of Ireland arose
from absenteeism, or from the negligence of landlords, the
inherent disposition of the Irish people or a system of
underletting laud. The fact with which they had to deal was I
this—that the population of Ireland had increased to &much
greater extent than its capital. Now, what was the remedy
for this state of things? They roust either diminish the po-
pulation, or increase the capital. His noble friend, in in-
troducing this bill, had seated so forcibly the benefits it
would confer upon Ireland, the new ma
erkets—(A laugh)ch
it would open in that country, and th advantages whi
would result to the people therefrom, that he (the Marquis
of Granby) should not dwell for a moment on these points.
This was not a case of over-exciting the energies of a pros-
perous and thoroughly employed country, but, on the osmosis
trar7, the giving some animation to a country In a retest
terrible state of depression. Wherever internal eammismden-
tion, even on a small scale, had been effected in Ireland, it
had been productive of beneficial results, both to the pros-
perity and to the morality of toe population. The government
said that the difficulty of raising the sixteen millions was, in
itself, a reason why it should be refused ; but there were
men of the highest authority on financial affair., who, on
the contrary, considered that there would he no difficulty.at
all in the molter, and that no evil to England would arise
from the admire of the money. All he could himself my on
the poiat was, that if England could not raise four millions
a year, fee leer years, for the support of starving Ireland,
there must be something radically wrong in the state of
*Malian, and they had better retrace their steps. It was
ferthor objected that this was a proposition to tax the Eng-
Mt people ; such was not the fact ; his noble friend did not
nem to tax the English people to the extent of one farthing.
The right bon. gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
ialalikediera that the railway work contemplated by the noble
member kr Lynn would take labour from agriculture. The
right YOU. gentleman need be under no apprehension on this
more. Give the full employment upon these railways, and
retain the full labour required in agriculture in Ireland, and
there would still be wetly, many hands unemployed.
As to the suggestion that railways would proceed
in Ireland without government assistance, he re-
garded such an expectation so wholly ?utile. He
believed that the bill of his noble friend would confer
immediate and permanent benefit on Ireland, without the
least possible cost to the people of this country. Nay. he
believed that it would put seven hundred thousand pounds
into the imperial treasury. (Hear.) He trusted, however.
that they would not look at the question in merely a pecu-
niary view, but would take a molder range, and think of the
ant prosperity they would confer upon Ireland; and
Crirclii:w of no higher or nobler gratification than the recol-
lection of having generously come forward in aid of a suffer-
bog people. (Cheers.)
Mr. W. BROWN said he rose merely to deal
with the bill itself, not to examine or contend with
the arguments which bad risen out of it. He con.
sidered that that bill had been ushered into the world
aim* still-born and that it could never be carried into
abet. The condition of the 20th clause, was, that the
stoeltholden should advance one-third of the capital, the
government advancing the other two-thirds; but govern.
stem was to have a mortgsge and right of pre-emption on
the whole, to secure themselves.. He did not think that
shareholders would readily come forward and thus give up
their property to mortgage, while there were so many more
secure Inver meras to be had.
Col. MURE did not with to be understood as opposing
a judicious advance of public money for public works in Ire-
land; but he considered the scheme now proposed as one of
a very questionable character.
Aid. THOMPSON said the first objection to the mount
measure was, that it would interfere with works which should
be carried oo by private capitol ; and the second was, that
it would derange the financial affairs of the country.
Now, with respect to the first point, there were a great many I
rats for government assistance. Parliament had voted
precedents
sums for the execution of turnpike roads and canals in
England, Scotland, the colonies, and in Ireland itself. It
might be said that these were old cases ; but so lately as
18:36, a committee of that house was appointed specially to
inquire how public works in Ireland might he extended with
the aid of the state. The report of that committee stated,
that among remedial measures for Ireland, there were none
about wfilth there was lees difference of opinion
than the encouragement of public works. Bee
sine' after the :merriment of the day introduced
`set of *lnch was to aid public works in Ireland
' eve millions. (Hear, hear.) But that wee
tat time at She bill, =Ohs back @Mk&

as the name of the Attorney-General for Ireland, be found
inserted his own name along with that of Sir J. L. Goldsmitit,
as lemons who were to main in carrying out it. pros biome
It wa. true that the country was labouring under some
finaroiel difficulty at the present moment, and that the value
of irovernment stock was depreesel, but was not the state of
Ireland in a great measure the cause ? (lime, hear.) Was
it not the scarcity of food in that country that occasioned our
large imports and comparatively email exports ? The noble
lord had not et teed theta what the expenditure under
his various measures for the relief of Ireland would be
—whether it would be five, seven, nine, or eleven millions.
If the bill of his noble friend the member for Lynn passed,
might they not fairly expect that the amount required under
I the government immures would he less by the sum which
might be advanced for the construction of Irish railways ?
Government must borrow the money they proposed to
advance in WOW wily or other, and they must provide by
some means for the payment of the interest and the loan.
The noble lord's (Lord G. Bcntinck's) plan involved no
imeeme of taxation to pay the interest upon the money he
permed to raise; all he asked was that the government
should lend its credit. He saw neither difficulty nor danger
in such a plan. The advances were not to be made without
seenrity, and it was not to be supposed that the hosed would
easmastalmi any money to he advanced where the security
wee Inedkient. He believed there was capital enough in the
tountrvatotwithstinding what had been said by the hon. mem-
ber for. South Lancashire,and that people would be found ready
enough to advance four millions during the next year, should
so much be required for the construction of railways in Ire-
land, under the guarantee of the government, at 31 per
cent. The principle had been already sanctioned by the go-
ventment in the measure he had already alluded to, and, if he
was rightly informed, within the last few days it had been
decided by the government that money should be &dement
to the extent of some 4) millions ter the construction of
railways in the East 'lndies, and purely the starviug people
of Ireland had a greater claim. (Hear.) He hoped, before
the conclusion of this debate, the right hon. baronet, the
president of the Board of Control, would lay upon the table
obi' decision of the board with regard to the In-
dia railwars. (Hear, hear.) It had been urged
that this bill would raise the value of railway property in
Ireland. Why, it had long been the subject of complaint
that English capital did not flow with sufficient freedom into
Ireland; and now when it was proposed to encourage the
Investment of English capital in that country in a manner
oakakbed to give employment to the destitute people, and
east a permanent improvement, it was objected that it
veil teed to promote ganiblitig. He regretted that the
seventmot bed not taken the plan of his noble friend,
end estahheed it with their own measures. Nothing
amid le fen objectionable or mere demoralising than to pro-
vided:od as proposed by the government, leaving the recipients
to lie down idle until they required another meal ; whereas
if the party receiving the tood were supplied with the
means of obtaining employment, with the understanding
that unless he availed himself of it no further relief would
be given, be could understand that much good might
Mutt.
Mr. F. FRENCH considered that Ireland would owe a
deep debt of gratitude to the noble lord, whether he suc-
ceeded or not, for he was the first statesman who had
ventured to come forward and, admitting the magnitude of
the ev propose • plan that must point the way. to future
legUlatlon. Hereafter all governments most, in dealing
with Ireland, follow in the broad and open path of grappling
with the real evils of the case, and that narrow and petty
legislation which had hitherto prevailed would by the noble
lord's conduct be effectually put an end to. (Hear.) He
complained of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's n 8
the people of Ireland with systematically avoiding
pecuniary liabilities to this country. Whether such accusa-
tions came from his political friends or opponents, he would
always raise his voice against them. The honour-
able member for Inverness had contrasted the con-
duct of the Scotch landlords with that of the
Irish le deeds, in regard to their willingness to take
advantage of the Drainage Act, and so find employment for
their tenants in improving their own estates; but the hon.
gentleman should know that many applications for advances
under that act had been made by Irish landlords, which,
however, had been umuccessful, in consequence of a decision
of the Courts of Chancery and Exchequer, that tenants for
life could not avail themselves of the provisions of the mea-
sure. He admitted the country would benefit by the pro-
motion of railways, but he preferred the government
measure, which he considered was more calculated to give
employment to the people—to improve the property, and in
every way more calculated to lead to permanent benefit
than that of the noble lord the member for Lynn.
Mr. NEWDEGATE repudiated the assertion that it was
the intention of his noble friend's scheme to add to the bur.
dens of the people of this country. The loan proposed was
intended as a substitute for the money which a wrung
from the hard-worked people of England to relieve
their suffering brethren of Ireland. And when the
sum of ea nen millions was named, it was meant as
the extreme limit, not as forminz any criterion
of the actual amount which would be advanced.
The amount to be advanced would depend upon the cha-
racter of the company, and of the undertaking in which
they were engaged. The failure of the Ulster canal had
been referred to as an argument against the bill of his noble
friend; but surely that should not form an absolute barrier
against using the credit of this country for the relief of Ire-
land—(hear, hear)—particularly as the only loan advanced
on railway security bad been reclaimed. The Chancellor of
the Exchequer said that the security under the bill would
be bad as applied to the poorest parts of the country, while
its application to the richest parts would not meet the exi-
gency. That was a fallacy, based upon the idea that rail-
ways were a local work ; whereas the lines that afforded the
best security were those upon which there was a thorough
walk; so that gnat trunk lines running acmes the country
would benefit all parts alike. Now hehegged attension to
these figures : dunng the last 11 years acts had been passed
for constructing in England 7,200 miles of railway;
of these, 2,600 had been completed, leaving uncom-
pleted 4,603. Within the same period acts had
been passed for constructing in Ireland 1,523 miles of rail-
way, of which 123 had been completed, leaving uncom-
pleted, 1,400. Thus the capital and credit of England had
completed one-third of the lines sanctioned by parliament as
necessary for the accommodation of the English people,
while in Ireland 1-12th only, or 1-Bth per cent. hat been
sompleted. Now if that wan all that private capital could
seconiplish in Ireland within 11 years, he asked the house
what prospect was there that private capital and enterprise
mold supply that country with railway accommodation, more
particularly as, according to the authority of the right hon.
member for the University of Cambridge, 3-4ths of the
capital which bad completed this miserable 1-12th portion of
the sanctioned lines Man English capital. (Hear, hear.)
To expect therefore that private enterprise would complete
the Irish railways was to expect an impossibility. The
Chancellor of the Exchequer had admitted that, in case of
an emergency, some such measure as his noble friend's
should be resorted to. Surely the emergency had
already arisen. (Hear, hear.) That and other right
hos. gentlemen bad also said that the financial
condition of the country precluded the adoption of such a
measure. Now of those right hon. gentlemen the member
for Portsmouth had, in 1839, voted for an advance of
5,000,0001. for • similar purpose. And yet that was at a
period when the bullion in the Bank of England never ex
seeded 7,000,0001., being at me time so low as 2,500,0001.,
and when there was a deficiency in the revenue of 1,300,0001.
Contrast that with the present financial condition of the
country. We had now 13,000,0001. of bullion in the bank,
and no deficiency in the revenue. (Hear, hear.) He ad-
mitted that there were *fits of a coming commercial crisis,
which, according to our present monetary system, would be
followed by • monetary difficulty. But was he to be told
that because there was • prospect of a commercial difficulty,
Ireland should be left to starve ? It was said that the money
could not he easily relied ; but they had the authority of the
bon. members for Sunderland, Northumberland, and others
to the contrary. There was surely capital enough in the
country to spare 4,000,0001. for rescuing Ireland from misery
and starvation. It was not one-hundredth part of the loan
which this country had rained during three successive years
of war, when the revenue levied from the people amounted
to 75,000,0001. The income-tax in 1813 was 10 per cent.,
and produced 15.000,0001. Now that it was less than 31 per
cent. it produced 5,500,0001.: and if it were now at 10 per
cent., it would consequently produce 10,000,0001. If, then,
we could raise such sums when at war with one-half of
Europe, when our population, our exports, our imports were
less by one-half than they are at present, where was the dif-
ficulty of advancing 4,000,0001. at the present p.riod ? If
them were a difficulty in the way, it was not want of capital.
He believed there was a difficulty; but he believed that it
arose from our monetary system—(hear, bear)—which bears
heavily upon the people of this country atilt times. When,
for instance, we are prosperous, and when trade is good, it
cleanup the channels into whichcapital would otherwise
find its way ; while in times of adversity it renders a stagna-
tion of trade doubly distressing. He repudiated the notion
that his noble friend's measure was instituting a state of
disgraceful speculation ; while he trusted, on the other
hand, that in the opposition given to it by her Majesty's
government, there was no intention after allowing railway
enterprise in Ireland to meet its fate, and prvate capital to
be sacrificed, to take the whole system into chair own hands,
sad, es mos mid by the right hon. gentleman the member for
Peelekindle to make something of it ; in fact, to build up
rdeellselkeet menspoly upset the Mai of private capital.
bed sees Ida earpdee the motljes which the govern-
MOW 'keit to this ateneee •f'Me noble friend, and he
was .entloW lot they had not premed to substitute that
memes•es seglething like it, for the piens they had adopted ;
nest lag they, he conceived, met the proposition of his noble
fidend with the liberal feeling and public spirit with which
kW been introduced.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL rose, with considerable difficulty,
to explain the reasons for the vote which he intended to
give. He acknowledged the kindness of intention with
which the noble lord the member for Lynn had brought
forward his project; and while he gave hint every credit
far his good intentions towards Ireland, he gladly
bees his testimony to the kind manner in which
the noble lord bad laid his proposition before the
lusum. But his (Mr. J. O'Connell's) difficulty was this,
theft ere appeared to be doubts about the merits of the
plea is the minds of those spinet whew opinions he could
r piticina to place his own. One merit, however, in his
, it possessed, in proneising a large expenditure in Tre-
bling, In addition to sit-Ades which the government was
slime to afford. lion. members in England might not be
name si the necessity whisk existed for a large expenditure
Ileeletedi but they (*.able members), who daily received
dike date of digs in that country, knew that
analtl=noirmassotesplesdistedithajoeme
asetmthenet
dltaltriofti.:ausee,Luel:
Uri oft drailmit kivehei in the noble lord's project wee
irawasirr. Thep in this position that if they voted
,
nmemare of the noble lord' they voted spirit
ek which they thought necessary to save
IMErfigie people of Ireland from perishing is she
godelhe. if he thought that the plans of tie
wadi labs the expeedivare op to the menet

ame after
tobi:llAttalttre ero
agrallgii the lb
•
•
. ,
•