The Express.
London, England, 1851-02-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMMS.—WEDIRMIDAT. FEB 5.
Tbe 8 took the chair at 'even minutes before
4 o'clock.
NEW MEMBER.
Mr. DICKSON took the oaths and hit teat for them ty
et Limerick.

formation such as Mr. Loy was AMP Mil to afford.
Sir Denis Le Merchant possibly might be & very able man.
(Hear, best.) Judging from the wisillsr of situations he
tilled he certainly ought to be poundat • pretty general
knowledge. (" Hear, hear," lbisesfar.) But what
means had he of acquiring a lendarledbseae et the routine and
forms of the house, except that he had been for a shell time
one of its members ?
Mr. GOULBURN did not think the matter which bad
been introduced by the hon. gentleman who had just sat
down was suited to the present occasion. (Hear, hear.)
lie was, perhaps, above all others, qualified to bear his tes-
timony to Mr. Ley, and to the knowledge and advantages
derived from his experience, for having come into office soon
after his entrance into parliament, he had been saved, by
the experience and knowledge of Mr. Ley, from falling
into those errors which, as a young awash. r, he must other-
wise have unavoidably fallen into. (Hear, hear.) He
owed him • deep debt of gratitude for the information
which Mr. Ley had afforded him from time to time. He
had great pleasure in supporting the resolution.
Lord J. RUSSELL hoped the house would allow him to
say a few words in answer to the attack made upon him by
the hon. member for Montrose. (Hear, hear.) Of course
it was the duty of the Prime Minister to consider the quali-
fications of the person whom he recommended for any.par-
tieular office, and he would do wrong if he took the opinion
of persons who had no responsibility, and disregarded bis
own convictions on a matter of this kind. (Hear, hoer.)
Now, his own conviction was, that he could not have made
a better selection than that of Sir Denis Le Merchant. To
my that he had no experience of the business of the house,
was to say that which might be said of every person who
filled the more important situation of Speaker of that house,
who must necessarily he • person without experience in the
arduous duties of that office. (" No, no.") But with
to this particular office there was a recommendatiotrnayl
committee of the house, with respect to the office of counsel
to the Speaker, an office connected with the house, to
which a salary of 1,200/. or 1,1001. a year was attached.
When this office was first created, it was one of great re-
sponsibility and labour, and the gentleman who filled it had
been induced to leave air prospects at the bar for the pur-
pose of taking this situation. But the course of business in
the house had afterwards changed, and another committee,
I over which his right hon. friend the member fur North-
ampton (Mr. V. Smith) presided, recommended that the
offiee should be abolished on the next vacancy, and that the
salary should cease. It then became a question of consi-
derable embarrassment to Mr. Booth, not that he thought
these duties could be dispensed with, but he felt that he
held an office which stood in the way of a reduction in the
public expenditure. It, therefore, seemed to him that If
he appointed a gentleman fully qualified, from long habits
of business, to discharge the duties of clerk to the house,
and removed Mr. Booth from the Board of Trade, he could
thereby effect a saving of 1,2001. or 1,1001. a year. It was'
with a view to economy that he thus acted, and he had
always thought that the hon. member for Montrose
would support whatever promoted public economy. (Hear.)
After a few words from Mr. OaANTLEY BIBILIELEY the
resolution was agreed to.
THE HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT.—THE
OF THE COMMONS TO HEAR THE QUEEN'S
SPEECH.
On the motion of Mr. STAPPORD, the following gentle-
men were appointed a standing committee to control the
arrangements of the kitchen and refreshment rooms in
the department of the Seijeant-at-Arms attending the
house :—Mr. Stafford, Mr. Alderman Humphrey, the Earl
of Mulgriore, Lord Marcus Hill, Mr. Vescy Dawson, Mr.
Archibald Mastic, and Admiral Berkeley ; three to form
a Wo.nArti r ME said he wished to say a few words on another
matter. Those who had, Yesterday, accompanied the
Speaker to the House of Loids, would recollect the dis-
orderly manner in which the members had been compelled
to follow him, and what danger the Speaker himself had
to find his way there. (Hear, hear.) lie thought this was
highly derogatory to the dignity of the house. (Hear
hear.) Even when they did arrive at the House of Lord;
there way not room enough below the bar to contain one-
quarter of the members. He happened to he the twenty-
fifth after the Speaker, but both sides of the bar were so
filled that he neither saw the Queen nor heard her voice.
(" Hear," and laughter.) It was an eternal disgrace to the
house and to the country, that they had expended so much
money on a place so ill-suited to carry on the business of
the country. Could no means be adopted by which decorum
could be preserved in future? (Hear, hear.) He recol-
lected that on one occasion the coat Of a member of the
house, who now filled a high office abroad, had been torn—
(laughter)—and that his shoulder had been dislocated. That
was in the old house ; but it was as bad or worse in the
new house. What he wanted was, that a committee should
he appointed to consider of such arrangements as would
enable them to go to the House of Lords as became their
character and position. (Hear, hear.) If there was only
• for a hundred members, lots might he draw

NEW WRIT.
Mr. HATTER moved that a writ be Wined for the
bllwongh of Pontefract, now vacant by the acceptance of the
olleo of one of her Majesty's Barons of the Eachequer by
Mr. Samuel Martin.
BOROUGH OF DUNGARYAN.
Mr. HATTER stated that he bad on the previous even-
ing moved the issue of a new writ for the borough of
Dungarees, under an erroneous perimasion that the seat
had been vacated by Mr. Stied. He now moved for a so-
yrarsedass to stay any election proceedings being taken on
the writ.
Mr. ROEBUCK having interpellated the law advisers of
the crown respecting the precedents to be followed in such
mon,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied that Mr. Shell,
havios only boss appointed to an [Aro on the foreign di-
staff of the governasent, did nut thereby vacate
CuWe iset in the house; and m the writ which had been
moved Ger would bo neceoarily inoperative, the proper
SOWN to adopt would be to stay further process be a su-
persedes:.
The subject then dropped.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
TRINITY COLUMN AND ST. PATRICK'S CAI I: EDNA L
(Dentro).—By Mr. FRENCH, to extend the leasing
powers of the fellows, and to provide foe the repairs and
maintenance of St. Patrick's Cathedral.
Para'. Aaoasestos.— By Mr. THORNELY, from
Wolverlpimpton ; Sir R. H. -INGLIS, from Lincoln and
Hants ; Lord CHARLES MANNERS, from Leicester;
Mr. MACCIREOOR, from Glasgow • Mr. BROTHER-
TON, from Salford ; Mr. DUNCAN, frona Yorkshire ; Mr.
SPOONER, from Warwick; Mr. NEWDEOATE, from
Warwickshire; Sir THOMAS ACLAND, from Devon-
shire; Mr. DANKES, from Donetshire ; and Lord SHEL-
BURNE, from Caine; Mr. EVELYN, tram the parishes
at Felonry, Alford, Weybridge, and the district of St.
Mark's Chapel, in the county of Surrey; Mr. I'. BEN-
MRT, from Boulead and other places; Mr. COWPER,
hosi Welwyn; Lord C. MANNERS, from Whitwiek,Cole-
Ones, and Bocksninster, in Leicestershire; Mr. 0. DUN-
COMBE, from the nrchileaeoo and clergy of the arch-
deacoory of Itiehroond, Yorkshire ; Lord BURGHLEY
emend numerously signed petitions), from the parishes of
Welby, Barton, Coggles, North and South Witham, Ba-
Corby, Swayfield, Bitchlteld, Stoke, Ounby,
maLgtott. in the county of Lincoln; Mr. NEWDE-
GATE, from the clergy of the archdeaconry of Coventry,
the inhabitants of the town and viciuity. of Nuneaton, in
public meeting assembled, the congregation of Baptista of
bird worth, from the inhabitants of the parishes of Barton-
=Heath, Stoke, Ansley, Mereden, Wilmash, and other
in Warwickshire.
W,'enow Tait.—For the unconditional Repeal of the
Window Tax--By Lord DUNCAN (b 0 petitions), from
Leicester, Somersetsbire. and various districts of the
metropolis ; Mr. MOWATT, from Falmouth ; Mr.
SMYTH, from York ; Mr. J. BELL (33 petitions), from
bouscholders in Islington, Ilnensey, Holloway, Re. ; Mr.
COLES, from the borough of Andover ; DIVETT,
from the mayor, aldermen, and burgesets of the city of
Exeter, and from' ,000 inhabitants of Exeter; Mr. SM rrit,
his. the inhabitants of the city of York, signed by the
Lard Mayor, de.; Mr. HENEAGE, from Devisee, name',
/Ml„4 littotd.
L:01/NTT FINANCIAL AND AostINISTILATION
&mar of—By Mr. DUNCUIT,from the Guardians of the
Oldham Union; by Mr. ELLIS, from the Blahy Union, in
the county of Leicester, and from Billeadon Union, in the
name county ; Mr. PACER, from the Poor Law nudism
of thc Morket Harborough Union, abbe counties of Leices-
ter and Northampton; Mr. FItEWEN, from Susses ; Col.
THOMPSON, from Bradford; Mr. HENRY from Lanca-
shire ; Mr. COMI'TON, from Devonshire • Mr. ADAIR,
from the Guardians of Cambridge Union: dr. COM l"f ON,
from Fareham Union; Mr. I'. BENNET, from the Sud-
bury Board of Guardians, and the Stretford Board of
Guardians.
ADMISSION OP Jaws TO PAD, lllllNT.—Against, by
Lord C. MANNERS, from Buekmice.ter.
Dicta Mosortiee.—By Mr. HUME (3 petitions), from
Lewes and other places, agaioat the continuance of the
bible monopoly.
ADV LTIMAT lON or Corere.—By Mr. CARDWELL,
from Ceylon, against the adulteration of coffee.
NOTICES OF MOTION.
ENNISTYMON UNION.—IRISH FRANCHISE.

Colonel DUNNE gave notice, on behalf of an hon. rnem- room . . a .. __ ,
her, that on Tuesday next he would move for copies of the to ascertain who 11116. to accompany the Speaker, that
correepondenre between the Poor Law Commissioners and order might be pismerred, and that they might be able
the Ennistynion Board of Guardians; also for a return of to conduct themselves ra other men, soberly and decently,
the number of electors registered under the late act. and not like a mob. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) He was
HOME SPIRITS IN BOND. himself knocked against the corner there, his head was
Lord NAAS gave notice that he would on to-morrow (this knocked against the post, and he might have been injured
day) edit the right hon. gentleman, the ChBACCUOT 14 the if a stout member to whom he felt much obliged had not
itachequer, whether it was his intention to take any steps come to his assistance. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) It
fur removing the duty on home made spirits in bond. was no laughing matter. It concerned the character of the
(Rear, bear.) house, and it must be matter of regret that such a scene as
'WINDOW DUTIES REPEAL. that which had taken place yesterday should have been
Lord DUNCAN gave notice that on the 13th of February presented to the Queen of England at the bar of the House
he would submit LI motion fur the repeal of the window of Lords. (Hear, hear.) Ile thought that this matter
duty. (Hear, hear.) might be left in the hands of the present committee, who
SUNDAY TRADING. were perfectly competent to deal with it. (Hear.)
Mr. W. WILLIAMS gave notice that, on the 11th in- The motion was then agreed to.
gout, he would move for leave to bring in a bill to pre- THE SESSIONAL ORDERS.
vest unnecessary Sunday trading in the metropolis and its Mr. C. LEWIS moved the usual sedional orders.
vicinity. After several of them had been agreed to,
LAW OF MORTMAIN. Mr. HUME said he had given notice last session of his
Mr. IIEADLASI gave notice that on Tuesday, the 18th, intention to move that no money Tote should be taken after
he would more for a select committee to inquire into the 12 o'clock, and that intention he should now fulfil.
policy of eztending the law of mortmain so as to include In the case of a vote having been discussed before
permed estates. midnight he did not propose to prevent a decision; what
SUGAR DUTIES. he desired was that no new money vote should be proposed 1
Mr. ORANTLEY BERKELEY gave notice that he after 12 o'clock.
would take an early opportunity of moving for a committee The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
to take into consideration the 11th and 12th Vie., c. 97, re- that it would not be wise for the house to bind itself down to
speetiog the differential duties on sugar. any positive resolution on the subject. Ile hardly knew an in-
LAND INSURANCE. stance in which the government had persevered in an attempt
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL gave notice that he to force a vote after twelve o'clock. (Yes.) He was quite
would, on Monday, move for leave to bring in a bill for the sure that in his time no such thing had occurred. Whela-
n-got:anon of insurances affecting land in England. ever opposition had been made to a vote after that hour the
PAPAL AGGRESSION. government bad given way. It wax, in fact, understood
Mr. NEWDEGATE gave notice that he would move an that opposed votes should not be taken after midnight, and
address to her Modest y praying for a return of the number he could not call to mind any deviation from that rule.l
of addressee which tad been presented to her, together It was far better that the house should be left to ex-
with the slumber of signature* attached to them. revise its discretion as the occasion arose than that a rube'
IRISH VICEROYALTY. should be established which might tend to impede the dm-
In reply to Mr. MIITSOLDI4, patch of public business.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was the intention of the go- Mr. HUME observed that if circumstances should re-
?moment to bring in a measure fur the abolition of the quire the suspension of the order, he would have no objec-
Lord Lieutenancy. (Cheery) two to that being done.
Mr. REYNOLDS heggeit to give notice that he would Mr. SPOONER said the vote for the College of Mays
mole for a call of the house. (Cheers.) nooth had been taken at a quarter past one in the morn-
FISIIF.RY OF THE BLACK WATER. ing. He should ;rapport the motion, considering it
Mr. ANSTEY wished to ask the First Lord of the Ad- quite indecent to vote away the public money at such late
salinity whether it was the intention of government to hours
order any and what prosecutions, or preceedinm, for carry. Mr. W. WILI.IAMS said the greatest mischiefs had
ing into effect the recommendations contained in the late arisen from bringing forward votes of importance after 12,
report of Commander Fewer, R.N., on the illegal obstruc- and even 2, o'clock in the morning. When his hon. friend
lion to the fishery and navigation of the Blackwater ; and the member for Salford (Mr. Brotherton) used to perform
whether he would lay the said report, with plans, de., the onerous duty, in which he persevered for setae =
before the house? there was mine check to the evil, but his hon. friemill
Sir E. DARING said that, though it was true Mr. Fraser late years relaxed in hie efforts, and that was an additional
bad completed hie survey end forwarded it to the Admi. reason for adopting the motion.
ratty, the report was not yet complete; till the complete Sir G. GREY said there might be many cases in which
report and plans had been furnished no decision would be it would he for the public interest to have a eats pried
conic to. When he saw that report he would communicate after 12 o'clock. The hon. member fur Montrose said ha
the result privately to the hon. gentleman. would vote for dispensiug with the rule where that MS 1194
NEW FOREST. emery. The house might he continually megegsi it db.
Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY wished to know if it was (twang the question whether it were neessamy MI
the intention of the government to bring in a bill for the the rule or not, and thus, even if the rule WWI ile
iacluouro of the New Forest? if so, what were the Thine would be infinitesimally small.
intuitions of the government with respect to the destine- Col. SIBTHORP opposed the motion.
lion of the deer; whether they were prepared to take into The house then divided, when there appeared—
consideration all claims of common right, and whether they For the motion
intended only to retain a certain number of acres, and if so, Against it
to what extent t Mr. BROTHERTON then moved, in pursuance of
Lord SEYMOUR said it was his intention to bring in notice, "That in the present session of parliament no
three bills respecting three different forests and he thought business shall be proceeded with after midnight; and that
it would be more convenient to reserve all details till be at 12 o'clock at night precisely, notwithstanding there
moved the introduction of these measures. (lb's; hear.) may he business under discussion, Mr. Speaker do adjourn
ADULTERATION OF COFFEE. the house without putting any question." The hon. member
Mr. 0 RANTLEY BERKELEY wished to know from his for Montrose had used arguments which evidently applied
right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether to his own motion. He was not proposing any infnnge-
it was his intention to introduce any measure to prevent the meat ; 150 years ago it was the rule for the Speaker to
adulteration of coffee by chico d other means, so as quit the print at 12 o'clock at noon, and they had adopted
afford protection to those who sent coffee into he country? a similarple with respect to the Wednesday sitting.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he The rule which he proposed was, he thought, calculated
would state his views generally on the subject when making rather to facilitate than to retard public business. The present
his financial statement, bat with regard to the prohibition system was very prejudicial to the health of members. In
respecting the use of chicory with coffee, it was not his no session within his recollection had there been so great a
intention to iutroduce any measure an that subject. mortality in that house as in the last, and he attributed
Mr. GRANTLF.Y BERKELEY then gave notice of his this in a great degree to the fact of members having been
intentions* move for leave to isitrodnee a halloo the subject. worked until past midnight. There was often a great waste
JOHN HENRY LEY, ESQ., LATH CLERK OF
THE HOUSE. of time after midnight, and in deciding whether the home
should adjourn or not. An hon. gentleman had observed
Lord J. R1:188ILL and Sir R. H. Imam la eule that he doted in his exertions. He bad there ea
the retired clerk of the Commons, had far 40 yews fulfilled
oho
alxuThey, intelligence, and enurt4" with i'vluelL Its.l-07_ i account of the number of days and balm, as wall as the
number of 11 after midnight• that the house bad set file
rth,Tue "ttither,: ha:Lik.th.„,ie forit,welairawres:iditrimtli'llth4.l7l.cmovoedf he the last nine °rears. The following Mel the result :••••
Ay.. tmelffildear
distinguished and exemplary manner in which John Henry 1141 D
117 ... .. - LIPS Houna
111
Ley, Esq., late clerk of this house, has uniformly discharged lea - NS
the duties of his situation during a long attendance of 49 1644
years at the tahle of th, house. HNC 119 —...... I..SM
Mr. HUME said that, having bed frequent op tun(- 1145
1847 ....... ..... 111 ........... 916
ties of observing the admirable manner in which Mr. Ley bad 1445
. his duties, he cordially and entirely agreed with late
Cfrotoe;dbut it was with extreme pain that he felt t
eased
upon 16Si
to complain on the part of the public of the manner in which The only a that could be urged against his pro-
the prime minister had filled up the vacancy. (Hear, position was t.rr:rr i
en.members al& evade the rule by
hoar.) He considered that every word which the noble lord speaking against time. The good gum of the house would
used, such as large experience, extensive knowledge, long prevent such a bane • e from belie continued ; while '
servitude, told madly against himself, for they found that one good effect whisk he anticipated um that hon. members
the person who occupied Mr. Ley's situation was a gentle. wouU be induoed roam to abridge &sir speeches, which
man who had not had a single day's experience in a similar would make them mem egmemble ile dm ammtry.
care. (" Hear," and laughter) He did not wish to say Mt. EWART bevies soseadoi the mation,
anything against that gentleman as an individual, but a Sir G. GREY said the house having decided against the
knowledge of his office would only be obtained by the motion of the boo. member for Montrose, he could sot
continued practice and lonz experience which the noble muuseive that they would adopt one which went mesh
lord bad adverted to, and therefore he did complain of the further. No doubt it was very undesirable that the habit
meaner La which the noble lord had exercised his patronage should prevail of continuing the debate long after said-
(Hoar, beer) oMces of this nature should always be filled night ; but that was not the general practice, especially in
up with a view to the public benefit, and when a vacancy Site earlier part of the session ; the adjournment generally
occurred, due attention should be paid to the merits and . tote place about 12 o'clock. Still, if the rule were to
abilities of the party appointed to it. That rule applied I adjourn every night at that hour, the business of the
with double force to the office in question, for young mem- I home, would be placed. to a great extent, in the power of
hers, ignorant of the forms of the house, could only make ! • minority, and the ecesion be protracted by the habit of
themselves acquainted with them through the assistance of speaking against time—an evil against while bit bow
the clerk at the table. (Hear, hear.) It was, there-' friend had provided no remedy. Ile would be glad to sr
fore, of the utmost importance that they might be a further adoption of the salutary practice of abridging I
able to apply to an o Mmr who could give them in- usielen speeches.