The Express.
London, England, 1848-05-17 00:00:00

lIMIM,

bad reduced the number of stalls ha. the cat
hichhedral
0001. was
8 to sea ;
its revenues were 20,00 W. per ILDMISI, of w,
divided among the chapter—the dean taking two shorn, and
each of the canons one share. Now, besides the estates from
which this revenue was derived, the dean and chapter were
retries by themselves or their nominees of about forty
livings, and by law they not only may but must present
themselves to these livings. each *anon being permitted to
hold 011. bonetice in conjunction with his cathedral stall.
He therefore found that the seven members of the chapter
held the seven best benefices, the revenues of which amounted
to-9,2001. per annum ;so that under the law as, remodelled
the dean and chapter of Canterbury, may divide amongst
them 17.0001. per annum, thus giving to each canon
about 2,0001. per annum. In addition to the den
and chapter, there was • very large establishme
kept ap, consisting of a sub-deacon, precentor, chan
cellor, sacrist, minor canons, tee surer, chorister, weed-
ranger, and others. Now, such being the revenue and such
the establishment, the question that would naturally be
asked was, " What is all this establishment for ? what
good does it tend ? What advantage dote the church or the
country derive from it ? What are the duties performed,
and what the services rendered to the muse of religion ?" In
imager, it wee& melancholy acknowledgment to mak putt o that
these estatiliehments existed not to the strengthening.
the extinction of religion. Oast of the reasons which had
been put teeth in favour of maintaiuing so large a
duly
staff
was the advertise.) which it would give of a
Wyk, being performed with all solemnity. Now he had
taken a retina of the attendances on the service by the
people en two out of five days in the last week, and he tound
that in Canterbury Cathedral, as in other places, the
to th attenat
-
dan at service of the ulBciala was very nearly equal
en-
dance
of the peewee attending as members of the con-
gregstion. The average on these two days last
wek MSS as follows : in the morhiog tere were
21 e
effieials present. with a congregstion of '25, h
and in the
afternoon 22 officials to a congregation of 53. But Canter-
for
bur Cathedral in this respeet was& very favourable instance,
for very few of the other cathedrals in the country had these
weekly services so well attended as was the case at Canter-
bery. Ile hail endeavoured to get returns of the average
attendance ot the weekly services in other cathedrals, and
be heillibiained them in some nine or ten. And in all
iea anon it must be admitted that, so fur from giving the
public the epportunity ot weekly services, t
establishhere wee not much
for
return made by these richly endowedments,
it was evident that the inhabitants instead of availing thent-
t
selves of these services, actually shunned the because i
could not be doubted that the greater part of these congreme
tiers consisted of visitors, attracted to the cathedral by the
beauty and antiquity of the edifice. So much then for the
atteedance upon the weekly services, and now he had to in-
quire how far this state of things was compensated for by the
attendance upon the services on Sundays. It might very
naturally be supposed that if there were any towns or dis-
tricts in which the rervice on Sunday was more fully and
adequately performed then on any other, it would be in
them, cities which had numerous resident clergy who were
not occupied by parochial duties, and who had no other cle-
rical occupation to engage their attention. But experience
proved that cathedral cities showed directly. the reverse to be
the case; and it was a fact that in proportion as th
ee chapteiable
r
was rich, the churches were poor. T. that var
rule Canterbury did not form an exception. In
the City of Canterbury there were fifteen parish
chinches, and he was prepared to prove that the clergy
man of cry one of the-c was secured any yrovision b
law. This was the parish of St. Martin's, in which
3001. per annum was seeared to the incumbent out of the
tit -e on mop, but all the rest might he said
toe e
eupp reel by and to to exist upon. the voluntary system.
In all these 15 p irishca there were only four resident
clergymen, and the income of the whole of the city
clergy was only 1,1001. per annum, being less than the
revenue received by one single member of the chapter.
(Cheers.) euch, then, being the provision for the clergy,
let the house now look to the provision made for the
corgregatiens. He Lad procured a return of all the services
performed in the church,* of the city of Canterbury, as well
as of those performed in the dissenting chapels there on last
Sunday. The number of persons attending the church ser-
vices in the churches, including the cathedral, wee, in the
morning, 2,060; in the afternoon, 2,210; and in the evening,
1,400 ; making a total of 5.760. In the dissenting chapels,
on the same day, the atttendances were as follows: In the
morning, 1,825; in the afternoon, 402; and in the evening,
2,f70 ; so that the attendance on the church services bsd been
n,700, while that in the &viewing chapels amounted CO
the lumber of 4,915. In Canterbury there was church
accommodation for as, 8,000, while the accommorlation
in the dia. einem chapels was about 3,700. The largest at-
tendance in the churches was 2,240, and in the dissenting
chapel' 2 670. I Hear, hear.) But there was another point
which it was not unimportant to bear in mind in considering
the question. It bed been observed by Dr. Chalmers—
". Educate the child if you wish to christianise the man."
He (Mr. II rsman) found that in Canterbury the attendance
of Sunday scholars at the church service was 617, while the
attendance of Sunday scholars at the dissenting chapels was
820, so that while the gross attendance on public worship
was only one seventh in favour of the church, the attendance
of Seethe, achnlars was one fourth in favour of dissent.
(Hear, hear.) Strange OA this might appear, it was quite
intelligible when the melancholy evidence of the cause was
ezamined into a little further. It would be thought that in
a city like Canterbury the services in the churches would be
well and fully ;reformed. Ile found, however, that out of
fete fifteen churches there was morning service on
Sundays only in ten; in the afternoon there
was service only in seven ; and in the evening there wee
tervice only in five, more than half of them being. shut in
the afternoon, and two-thirds were shot in the evening. On
the other Wind, in the 9 dissenting chapels there were 22
services every Sunday. (Hear, helve) Was there not is
this fact some proof of the lethargy of the established
church, and of the spur it gave to the activity of dissent ?
There were unpleasant facts fur him to acknowledge, and
some might think it dangerous to promulgate them, as use
might he made of them by the enemies of the establishment.
He, however, thought the concealment of the truth wan
BIOTA pregnant with danger, and he felt it his duty to
detail the truth, (lies:, bear.) If such, then, was the
state of things with respect to the parishes within
the City, it could not be expected that the chapter
would take much more core of the parishes under
their control in the renal districts ; and secordingly ho
found that in 10 of these parishes nearest to tho City
there was scarcely one in which twe services were performed
on Sunday. In several there were services only on each
alternate Sunday, and in most there were no schools but
those belonging to the diameters. One of these, the poorest
parish, in the gift of the dean and chapter, had been visited
from curiosity. It was xhuate in the immediate neighbour-
hood of Dover, and was held by the incumbent of Trinity
Church in that town, who either came himself or sent his
curate once a fortnight during the summer months to do
duty. The service in those months was irregular—sometimes
performed in the morning, sometimes in the afternoon ; but
en the winter months there was no service whatever.
(Hear, hear.) He had now done with the dean and chap-
ter of Canterbury, except as to another matter connected
with its charities, which he should not do his
duty if he did not bring under the notice of
the house. In the city of Canterbury there were
certain hrepitahe of which the members 'of the chapter
were es officio patrons and managers- Two of these homi-
tale had been endowed by charitable individuals for decayed
old men and women, who must he, as the foundation pro-
vided, natives of Canterbury, evident' there, and poor. One
of the poor brethren was to be the prior of the estawhichblish-
ment, and as such the manager of the property with
the hospital was endowed, and which brought 2001. a-year
to its revenues. The hones would presently see here the
poor of Canterbury had been defrauded of the benefits in-
tended for them by the heneeolent founders, by those
us who
in
m
he (Mr. Herman) would not scruple to name,
e
this house he ought not to shrink from stating all the circum-
stances. It appeared that the nominatinn of a poor bro-
ther rested with one of the chepter,—Archdea-
eon Croft—who, instead of nominating a poor
Man who was a native and resident of Canterbury, had
■ med one of his own parishioners at Saltwoed, a dependent
of his own. Another gentleman, said to be one of the most
wealthy in Canterbury—a gentleman who held the office of
surveyor to the dean and chapter, with a salary of 6001.,ani
who was also woodrnr eer and seneschal, and as sorb
managed the whole estates of the dean and chapter—had heen
appointed by Archdeacon Croft one of the poor brethren.
This gentleman's came was Austin, and he not only bad
been nominated a poor brother, hut also prior of the
hospital. This was not all—tor Mrs. Auxin hod been nomi-
nated a poor -inter, and made priorees (a I and Miss
Austin had been mails snottier poor sister of the hospital.
(Lsughter.) let the house remember that the hospital had
been Pounded for decayed and poor old men and women, and
yet they. found upon it a family of three of the wealthiest
people in the city. (Hen, beer.) list this was not
all. The prior had the management of the estate of
the hospital, and how did Mr. Austin menage it? He (Mr.
Reesman) was informhat he let it privately to his own
son, who at is real ed
or that he let it privately to his own
son, wheih'r at is real or nominal rent no one in Canterbury
could discever ; hut the whole place telt scandalised by the
transaction. (Ili ar, hem. ) One word more in reference
to the gent)• men, Archdeacon Croft, who wits the head and
source of tha meet flagrant abuse. The archdeacon was the
son in-law of a late an hh shop. sae in re9n ct of his emolu•
meets be was not a bed sample of the o'd system. His stall
in tht e ithedrat was worth 1 0001. p:r annum, his archdea-
coney 5001. as rector of Cliffe he received 1,3001 , and as
rector of 'Seltwomi 7811., so that he was receiving alto
the pelmet 3 se4f. per annum, and yet he had not
Levitated thus to interfere with the due coulee of charity and
benevolence. ( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Horiman) had dwelt
att some length on the case of Canterbury, as showing the
Lew .• stem, and he now would ask the house to go with him
to the cathedral of Lincoln, which remained n ider the old
system. In le3l. when the comrniminners of inquiry went
down to Line..fin, the e 'apt r consisted of a dean, sub-dean,
Chancellor, and preeenter ; they were, in fact, four in
nai umber. They die.
of 6,9861. a year between t cm, he-
l• having the produce of lee 'rate estates and other pre-
ferments. The rourm fleece thr commissione with e-
meet to Lincoln cathedral we. remarkable. in all other
instances the ermine Meiners, without reference to income,
mode a raluction in the number ef the stalls, and the pro
feeds of the reduced stela were paid into a general fund for
Weolin, however, they
the gen ere I purposes o, the church. In
made no/eduction, hut they prop. sed.as the "eine wee large,
chapter at
and the thole er smell, for the sake of uniforn:fteh le create an-
other stall. But this was overruled, and the
Lincoln remain in the uncnntrolleit receipt and meneatement
of their estates. In 1831, however, they were called ppm
to make • return of their income, and they made a returth
stating it was likely to be diminished in consequence of the
&creme in the amount of fines paid on tl.e renewal of leases,
and also the declining value of the estates. Now, so far
frim any eeereme in value in say respect, he (Mr. Reesman)
believed if this inquiry wee granted, it would be found there
had been aor 'et incr.'s.. The chapter, however, receive
shout I,SOOI. per Annum e..ch fer the stalls, ;ind, as a matter
Of coarse, they present themethes to the best livings in their

EXPRESS. WEDNESDAY

___-.-------e---"--.-----•--------"--'----:—i
. altogether, the income of each h labeureto yid* these poor holey spore egpmed. es
at alarm at any hmovatione and gained to ok
patronage:
of; so
thethatahaptar, under the new arrange- the memertial to which he had already referred, the e
mint, was not under 2,0001. per annum. This ellpreieltigee i
th
of education wed religious les-
being the case, he must ask what were the benenta
se
' g abroad a mischievous
which Lincoln derived from this establiehment, and what pproastvaeharneaeirnrage, thmoiararleujapnefiratuetacconde:tetettreslitagiteousoefetihsehloilsthyen;enantad,
were the duties and services performed? The commimioners • and t
oral Mee and
in 1831 put several questions to the member, of the chapter they added, "We fear there is mow;
aleterial duties of those who are invidiously called the
They first asked the dean, st What are the duties attached to disposition to magnify, at our expense,Ohe Mt.
your office of dean?" The answer was veryehort. It was, in
hieb ahad originated in the distinction
The duties tea led to my office of dean arc the usual working clergy." OH, r, hear.) This was no invidious
duties of • cathedral dean." (A laugh.) From that reply phrase, but one w
the house was not much the wiser, The next
addressed to the sub dean. " What are the duties attached rich who rece v
question was between those poor clergymen who did the work, and the
i ed large salaries and emoluments, paying
Ito your office?" The sub-dean reph , "My
So that To show how little bad been done in thew districts, in the
led duties are to pittances to those by whom the work was done. (Hear.)
act for the dean In his 'beim: (Laughter.) •h tate that, out of 4,6001. • year 5 i
the •ed by the eeelesiestical comemsaioners from the berms
the inquiry was not advanced much further in that quarter. way boasted of, he mig t • ~
The commissioners then turned to the next member of ream
376 l • th had only augmented 72. There
chapter, antioue to get something
dutiesit from,
out
of thin diocese, ooly 4901. had been laid out ; and that
hint. They asked "What are your as chancellor ? ' out of poor mines, ey
The rm:ponse was, " The usual duties of a cathedral elm- were innumerable easel of destitution which had been very
teller. ' (Renewed laughter.) From the fourth member grievotoly neglected, into these it was unneemar to enter,
of the chapter they got something more specific in the shape or to ge into the casts of other cathedrale; the twoY he bed
of a reply. The preceittor, when asked the nature of his adduced were suffilient to establish the position gbh which
duties, stated, " Day dudes are to superintend the choir, and he had set out. Ile could show in others the evils arising
to preach once a year." (ELM, hear.) Now, the superin. from the system of letting church property, whereby
tendence of the choir by him was purely nominal-the choir everything like improvement was put an end to. (Hear.)
was left to the management of the singmaster, and he He could show cam of chapter librarim, containing
are
and
believed that the precentor knew as little of music as of magnificent books, vrhich anywhere else it would be rivi-
navigation, and no more interfered with the duties of the legs to look into, but of which to last meteloguo had been
pinging-master than he would with the preaching` the made in the last century. There were inetancili of persons
chapter dinner. (Hear, hear.) His duty o once wanting to visit these stori hung, sof know.edge, when none
a year was intelligible and epecific, though it might he found of the chapter knew who had the key, and where the lock
somewhat an arduous duty. (" Hear, and a laugh.) In was so rusty that the key would nut turn and the door could
fact, the whole duty of the dean was to reside eigh months not be opened; and in one ease, the thirty who had charge of
in the year in a house provided for him; the the library key had complained of the great annoyance
canons to reside three months each in every year, caused by a cis yeoman coitetantly coming ill consult hooka.
and to preach occasionally on Sundays, while in (Hear.) These memorialists claimed to lie the promoters ut
residence, hut to take no part in the daily service of the education ; but he could show that they abused their trust
cathedral. lie (Mr. Horsmau) having shown the extent of as trustees of grammar schools, as mach as they did in the
the establishment on Lincoln Cathedral, and the provision chapter ; he could show lends tied estates made away with ;
made for the chapter, he would now inquire what provision he could show-by letters to clergymen front time hapter
had been made by them for the congregations ; that woo to therneelves, who had become c ,rela as by long nity-
say, what was the care which had been taken of the public, proposals as to managing the affairs of thiii churches which
forwhose spiritual instruction and advantage the establish were perfectly scandalous- But in all these abuses nothing
meat had been so richly endowed. Previous to 1840 there appeared to him so flagrant as the regulation which had been
were in the patronage of the dean and chapter of Lincoln imposed by act of parliament directing that all the pa eonage
96 parishes; but that number hail rice been cut down to voted in these chapters should be given to themselves, and
27. Of these, 8 produced about 2.501. ; 6, from 1601. to 2001.: precluding them from bestowing any portion of their pre-
and 13 were under 160/. per annum. Of course the richest ferments on deserving el, rgymen in their neighhourhood.
of these were disposed of by the chapter among them- If there was ono thole more than 'nether which should
selves. Of the 27, only It had resident clergy- have been encouraged by the li gielature it was the
men, and in 9 others the clergymen had other ss eking out of deserving clergymen for the be.
duties to perform. Ile had received a letter from stowal of preferments ; but instead of that, patho-
s clergymen in Lincolnshire, stating that the churches ment compelled the chapters to divide these preferments
I
the patronage of the dean and chapter were almost amongst themselves, and forbade their being bestowed on
without exception in a forlorn and:wretched condition ; othirs. hey were to be given in the tirstinstance to the
the ch, eche* were felling and the people degraded mo- members of the chapter, then to the mitten: canons, thin
rally and intellectually; and that an alteration in the manag e- they might be gto iven the mastt rof the grammar-echool ;
meet and expenditure of the cathedral property was loudly and if within six months they were not givento any of the
called tor. Similar letters from other clergymen had three the patronage lapsed to the bishop. Ile 'had heard a
reached him, and, from one end of the country to the other, reas in assigned for this regulation whic e would not now
there was scarcely a clergyman who did not deplere the pre. sta.e ; but if it were true, nothing c ,uld propounce as, rouge r
sent system. But what was the stet,• of the churches in the sentence of condemnation on the characters and proceedings
city of Lincoln itself , Formerly there were 62 churches, of these parties. The hon. and learned gentleman then re•
now reduced to 13, the patronage of which was divided ferred to two petitions which he had pr., sented from Woking-
among the members of the chapter. These could scarcely ham and Carlisle (which have been pi hired with the van, ith
be called churches, for they were miserable, decayed, dilapi- and Ts id part ot their contents. Ile bed now 'dated all he
dated buildings, such as could not be found in any die thought necessary to bring before the h.iuse. The two chup
trict not under the control of a cathedral chapter. ten he had ri fened to were a far sample of the rest. Ile
Here, as in Canti rbury, the churches were so served would now ask the house whether it was piesilile or right to
and the incumbents ill paid. Those 13 churches in Lin- allow these things to continue ? There were many exemplary
coin were held by 10 incumbents, of whom six have other individuils amongst the members of these chapters; he did
clerical duties indepndent of those of their parishes.as The wit blame them, tut the
th sj and the law ; and he wished
highest stipend wee 1 e
here 501 , and t was one as low 681. to enforce a change in e lair stem
by appealing to the good sense
per ensure : but the income of the clergy of the whole of and renecientious fielings of the legialature If these things
them was 1,414/, a year, or less than the income of one mern- were allowed tocominue,very then period the evil must
per of the chapter. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the get ahead of us. There Was not one of the c ithedral cities
provision made for the congregations, he had • return of all in England in which the dot.mters did not show a greater 1
the attendances the established churches and all the des- proportion to the establishment an in most an other 1
'eating chapelsinat the city of Lincoln on last Sunday. Ile part of the country. (Hear,th hear )al
Thankiny g the I
found that ol the 13 churches uMe only wreopened tor house for
now
move, " That an humble address he ew rated
evening service, and in all of them only 19 serVieee were to her Majeste, i retying that she will he grecily plemed
performed. There were present at the morning services, to directs n inquiry to be made into the • ate of our cathee
1,013 ;at the atttenoen, o;7 and at the evening, 1,075-- drals and collegiate church," with • view of amertng
makilig a total of 2,263, out of • population ef 13,000. whether they may not he rendered more conducive to the'
inhabitants. On the same day. the attendances at the dissent- services of the church and the spiritual instruction of the
log chapele were es follows : in the morning, 2,565 ; and in people."
the evening, 3,102; making a total of 6,667 in ten dissenting L ,rd It. GROSVENOR said he tete to second the
chapels, which had twenty one services. The greatestmotion, in the absence of his noble friend the member for
bee attending the churcheswas 1,075; whilst the greatest num- Bath. He was moat dearly 'niched to the established
her attending the chapels was 3,100, bring three to one. He church ; but feeling it the heat mean. of ilieternineting the
therefore asked again could these things be heard without doctrines ofhe religion he professed, and believing that,
feelings of sorrow and shame, and would it he wise or just to ticepite arms deformities, the great majority of the people
peewit such a state of thugs to continue to exist ? I Hear, were sincerely attached
the abuses to it, he woe n 1044 anxious that it
hear.) He had no return of the attendance at the cache- should be freed from
deal ; but he would give the house a description of I Sir It. INGLIS feare I that the hon. and learned member
the attendants at the cathedral service of Lincoln, written I (Mr. Horsman) had overrated the intelligence of the majo•
by nu less an authority than the dean himself, and Min seed : rity of the house, in assuming that they wese adpiainted
to the vergers, stall.keepers, and other officers of the cathe- ' with the origin and nature of our cathedral establishments.
and, in there words: Fur himself, he must confess to a very imperfrot knowledge
Wbetese complaints hare been made to me from several quieten, on this matter. hut this question was not of so much inf.
and I have likewise myself observed that pillions ere placed in the portence as the inquiry what were the objects and duties of
stalls, or meet distinguished place' of the cathestral who do nut come our cathedral establishments at the present day. in alluding
within the mire of our church diacipline, whirls supreme every one to the metropolitical cathedral of C,nterbury, the hon. and
to be seated according to his rank, quality and stetson-thew, hear. . _, ,
siid umaner,_.,......... the .b.... 1, test, a
..,jui diiimud ut learnt,' gentleman had gine a 'determent of the attendance
the rubric-, 10.101perwan, often remaining in a sitting Vass ttue during
there of pcmons officially connected with the cathedral ; and
the whole of the tervice,neither standing nor kneeling etch° appointed this was stated to be 23, rather • censideratile proportion.
;00,1de-often, no doubt, from ignorance: Yoondly. • mum of As to the general attendance, it should always be borne
talking, lauglimir, and joung during the wow, to the annoyance of in mind that cethedrals were cot parish churches: they
their sievouter neighbours, with ouch ettitude., gestures, and pos. wer notilestain• ed aces of
.worship for
vas large a number.,
tires as would be unbecoming even in prirate houses; and whereof., --e . - as
on rem:metres:ice with game of these persona, they bare declared their es their area gnus contain, but ather to exhilitt
alltkllt,ol2 tO rewiAt all attempts to reduce then to better order, I • model of the purity and excellence of our
hereby require and order Met, to nerd,* your beat judgment system of worship, to which the whole of Europe
and discretion, aided by w tamirledge of the persona you may furnished no equal, removed alike from superstition
preente, to admit no person whatever to the stalls who dont not bear, on the one hand, and from levity or indecorum en thaother.
or epeeist to you to bear, the character of s gentleman. (laughter.) But he had seen statemeute which gave the number of at-
The document went on to recommend that all persons tendaoccs mush higher than had been stated ; at d they
should be removed from the stalls who per- would of course vary materially at diff
her,erent periods the
siated in theirforcibly 11l behaviour after being remonstrated with. year. For imitator, on the 19th of Oc her, 62; on theof 28 h,
Under the circumstances it wino doubt very proper on the 150 ; on the 2nd Nov., 152. Without (fledging himself to
part of the dean to ism such a document; but who: a pica the accuracy of this return, he thought it as much to be r, -
ture did it present of the services of our cathedrals. (Hear.) tied on as the other, to which implicit reed. rice ought not to
He hal also returns of the Sunday attendance at the cube be attached. But a more serious cense' ration than the
deals, hut did not think it necessary to gn into them, or to number of attendances at cathedrals WA, this Ile c. uld not
detain the house meth longer. But k would he a great mis- 1 hut fear, notwithstanding the disclaimer of the hon. and
take to suppose that the influence of the chapter was can- learned gentleman, that the tendency of his motion must he
tined to the cathedral city; from their property in the neigh- to cast an imputation on the cathedral eystem generally,
bourhood, the parishes tinier their patronage and the pre-
n. which he alleged tend
indeded to the
of' a .1 decay i
and the extinction
ho
of
ferments to which they appointed, it was obvious the chap- religio This rem him r minister w
ters must exercise v ry great influence, in every sense of the dreier d that the church destroyed more owls than it sued.
word, in the districts arund. He had • return of 75 ( liner this could he said of a church e ended on the bur
red oe-
parishes within ten or twelve miles of Lincoln, 41- trines of the reformer", and cemented by thed of
most every one of which had heen personally visited, martyr., and boasting of prelates the most pious and em-
end regarding which he was furnished with the most minute lightened, he could not conceive. Against such sentiments
details. He would give the bowie a mere summary of the he must protest, as wholly unjust. A :Meer point dwelt on
result of thin inquiry. In the whole 75 parishes, there were by the hon. and learned gentleman was, the income of the
only 30 resident incumbents and 12 resident curate.; and members of chapters. At Canterbury, he said, the livings
only 34 clergymen of any kind were resident in their boon- of the dean and canons amounted to 8,0001 , and
dories. In eight cases the resident clergymen lived at Lin- the livings in their gift to 9,2001. in all, 17,000/. But
coin, either in consequence of connexion with the cathedral he hod toiled to show thae this sue. sera, wholly
or some other cause. In 22 cases the minister who officiated to the members of the chapter ; and the public conviction
l their privations, their sufferings ; he could show cases that
the people as of takieg the income,' of Vie hierorchy of the
-
it would not be too much to say that the clergy had actually tained that in this respect there was no ditf, renee between
died fronCeitervation ; he could show from the letters of
that
ti of the highest character resident in those district% church property and property of any other ki,d. If the in-
come of the Bishop of London was to be
on the Subtitle lived in some more or lees distant parish. wet that such was not the case. But if the law were not
Of the 75 livings, 44 were held in plurality, 45 were held by ,;01„teo, was it titthig that the state of the church of Eng-
non.resident ministers, 42 were without any partonage- land year?eoul be jeeteil to these ps., till discussions year
house, and 60 had only one service in the day. (Hear, hear.) after y Within the last 14 or 1.5 years the question of
Let it not be said that these cases of plurality and non- the income of the cathedral clergy had hr rn taken up and
residence were provided for by act of pediment; for be fully examined, and a legislative measure hail been reseed
had ails to show that many of them were in violation of relative thereto. It was said there were numerous decay I
the act act;
that in some cases, appointments in plurality had whose income was considerably less than that of the colons ;
taken place since the pasting of the cat; that in °the re, but ,/,3r not make the sanie objections figainA the gradation
licenses for non-residence had been granted ; and that in of rank end income in all ,ivil end laical professions arising
other cases, the diocesan might have compelled the building from the reeeweey inequality of condition ? Such gradation
of parsonage-houses and residence• hut had not done fie. he believed to be on the whole beneficial, though he was far
So much had this evil struck the Bishop of Lincoln himself, from wishing that the incomes of the poorer clergy should
that some time ago he had published a very admirable lie so low. He would not pull down the high, hut eh rate
Charge on that selejtct. He would now direct attention to the low. lie should as soon think of taking the incomes of
the state of the clergy. 14 e could show their poverty, the aristocracy of England and distributing them amongst
had occurred since he began to iostitu'e this inquiry, where church to augment those of the poorer elenty. lie mein
that there could not be a more harrowing tale than the suf. taken sway, they would have just as good a
ferings of those clergy. Instead of that, he preferred right to seize that of the corporation of London.
placing the matter in another point of view : he would The hon. and learned gentleman said that with the creep-
shew the labours they undertook, the exertions they tom or so moron... which was the mother church of Keg-
made - the manner in which one portion of the land, the incomes of the incumbents of the other 15 livings
clergy neglected their duty, while another perfirmed more in the neighbourhood of the cathedral of Canterbury were
than their share. One of the latter class stated as follows : very small. He (Sir R. Inglis) regretted that; hut what had
"The rector of a rich living in my neighbourhood (it sees 16 it to do withthe dean and cloister of Canterbury? They were
miles off) had taken his family to the watenide. He sent nut bound to raise the incomes of the churches in their neigh-
his groom to me to know if I sa
id take his duty at half past huuri.cuid any more than those at a greater dietance. Ihe
10 next Sunday morning. I said no ; I was engaged at that hon. and learned Kentleinan brought it as an accusatioo
hour, but teat I would take it at 12. There being no one against the dean and chapter that a population of only 5,700
else at hand 12 o'clock was fixed accordingly, and the die- attended the 16 churches to the neighhourhood of Canter-
tent parishioners of this rich, rector, who came to church at bury, while 4.900 persons attended dissenting chapels. He
the !anal hour., found to their surprise that they would heve wished that all persons were members of the church of Eng-
to w: an hour and threeluarters before the service land; but the fact that there were 4,800 persons atteuding
commenced. At half. past seven in the morning the ()Oren, ing chapels in Canterbury did not justify an attack
clergyman who had hnen applied to left home on his pony open the dean and chapter. The hon. and learned ge ntle-
to do duty at his own church, which was 16 miles away. man elan said that the number of oflieeil persons who at-
The service began at 10 ; he g 4, thriugh it as quickly as tended daily service at Christchurch in Oxford was 15, and
poasible, gave a short sermon, and then galloped oft' to the that but 18 not officials attended. Ile touch the hon. and
church of the riche ector, where, by dint of hard riding, he learned gentleman must have been very much misinformed
arrived just in time to do duty there, at 21) minutes after 12. in that . respect, le,cauee he could say from hie own r xperi-
Hers he got through the service again as rapidly as poseible, once that the cathedral of Chrietchurch was most nutner-
and then galloped away other 16 miles across the country to Doily attended, Every piece was occupied, and the congrega-
do duty for aher incumbent, who was ill. The service lion was al attentive as in any parish church of England.
there gas at three;hre he wentthrough the duty, and then gal- Hear, hear.) lie ceuld alto etate that the cathedral body
biped 10 miles hack, arrividg late at his own parish church, there charged the tithes with 3,oGili. a year, for the purpose
wlere a small congregation was waiting, anxious to know of augmenting the livines of the poorer clergy, and one of
whether a parson was coming to give them a service the colleges sacrificed '2OOl. a year for the purpope of in.
or nut. It was easy to suppose the state of creasing one of the small vicaregcs. The hon. and learned
fsv.igue in which this clergyman must have returned home gentleman, however, directed his attack chi, fly against the
lute at night. (Hear, hear.) This he did on eight successive cathedral of Lincoln, and said that in the year 1`4.31 an in-
Sundays in the dog-daes (Hear, hear.) But he stated come of 6,9801. was divided amongst four individuals--the
that he had even done harder work than that. He said : dean, the sub-dean, chancellor, and pr center, He could
" One day when Mr. M., who is very fond of shooting, had not say why the hon. and learned gentleman ghoul/ select
gone to the moors, in the month of August, and his neigh- the income of It'll rather then the income of 1848; bat in
hour. Mr. C., had gee to the lakes, 11l consequence of the the first place he would remar that no pereon had right
death of his brother, one of theme gentlemen sent to me to to make an inquiry respectk ing the ineoree of ana other
ask me te take his duty. I replied that it was impossible, whether lay or clerical, unless he asked for an Mortara. Ho
• Mester, sir (said his croom, who brought the message), will might say, however, without breach of privilege, that the
lie very sorry to hear that, for be in call confused. I said, income of one of these individual+ will 1.6001. ; and he
i Well, than, tell him if he will send me one of his hunters to would ask the house whether that was too large
meet me at Lincoln, I will try to take the service for him at a sum for a person filling one of the higher sta-
sis in the evening:" It was agreed upon that the
bone in the church I But he received 1,6001. for the
fleet year only. The wend year he received but 1,1001., and
matter should he so arranged. On the Sunday the clergyman
this, the third veer, his income was 8001. only, out of which
started on his pony and rode to his first parish, 15 miles off,
he had to pay 'hOl. for the building of a house. The hon.
where the service was at halepaet ten. He had two parishes
and learned eentleman then went ono Carlisle Cathedral,
of his own; the second was two
one. miles from the first ; but he
in respect to which the hon. and learned gentleman's col-
managed to take the serviceparish of
Mr. C., for whom he had also to do duty, was not far off, and tee o (Mr. Aelionhy) tonic every opportunity of asking the
right hon. gentleman the Secretary of State when he would
he managed to arrive there in time for the service at half-
pest three. "Then," he continued, " I rode as hard as 1 introduce his bill for the compulsory en ranchisement of
' could gallop to Lincoln, where I found a splendid mare wait- copyholds. net hon. and learned gentleman held a be-
Mg. I shut up tn, own pony in the stable, and galloped neflcial hose under the dean and chapter of Carlisle, which
10 miles to Mr.
fora parish, which I reached at six. Thin he wished to convert into a more beneficial freeheld. ft, Hear,
I cerlimaed to do three Sundays in the mouth ofAugn't ; hear," from Mr. Aglionhy.) The hon. and learned gentle-
end to retake mat•ers worse, on one of thaw I was man quoted from a celebrated petitinn, which stated that
overtaken owl drenched by an autumnal thunderstorni. ' the Dean and Chapter of Carlisle hail tut
tithe of 20,0001.
(Hear, heao) That was one case out of many, proving the a year in one county, the fact being th r /avenue

G, MAY 17, 1848.

that England was in allia' nee with the enemy of that country.
The object for which he claimed the attention of the Ileum
wee out an abstract but a particular and •a clear objecte
It depended on the voice and opinion of that house,
expressed on any one of the questions which turn the cur-
rent of the public policy of this country—it depended on that
house, the ally of Russia or of France, to sanction ac s of
injustice and public crime, or to make this country the pro-
tector of the world. It was for that reason that he claimed
its protection on that occasion ; and if the house would only
give the subject which he brought before them the state
care and time which it would bestow on a railway enterprise,
or any unimportant question, he declared that a•
possible injury could atone to foreign affairs or,
from foreign dangers. In his judgment of the case, to which
be had given a must thorough investigation, he considered
that it such labour was given there was nothing beyond the
shores of the Channel that would present to England any
aspect either of danger or embarrassment, hut, on the con.
trary, would element every opportunity for the Preeeeestion
of ettength 5".?... St cur. 4. ems country mall Lo •.1-40 lia'uit of
deciding on the internal affairs of Wier countries as if they
were its own. lie asked, wag the Musa aware, when it raised
a ministry to conduct the affairs of this country, that
it was also a ministry for the government of foreign states ?
The government hail broug o
ht the country into a most extra-
ordinary position at the present time in Europe, and he
warned them, if they did not restrain their present policy, that
the tide would be turned against them, and they would fall a
victim to the injurious manner in which its affairs had been
conducted. The origin of the anomalous and extraordinary
state of things which was at present in existence was the
holy alliance. That alliance had been prompted by Russia,
who bound Prussia and Austria, who became its slaves ; the
accession of France took place not directly, but in an insidi-
ous matinee end still under the direction of Russia;
Holland acceded likewise at her instigation; and Switzer-
land acceded from the same cause ; consequently,
the holy alliance was established in Europe to niansee
the affairs of nations at the instigation of Russia.
It was well known that England had refused to accede tom at
alliance ; but he proceeded to maintain that the governnt
had by their foreign policy deviated from the principle which
had dictated that refusal, and bad allowed Russia to bold
a supremacy which was injurious to the interests of this
country and the other countries of Europe. The question
was one of the deepest interest, and there was high authority
for the supposition—in which he did not concur, but with
regard to which, all that he himself required was that it
should be concurred in—that the noble lord opposite (Lord
Palmerston) bad been no match for the policy of thetealiinet.
Napoleon had said, in reference to the position of Russia
with regard to Europe, that all depended upon Poland, and
that if Alexander succeeded in reconciling Poland to Russia,
the Russian government would have gained the greatest
step towards subduing India. Poland wait now the great
question of Europe, sad he regretted to say that the
hut time that country was in a state of revolu-
tion, namely, in 1830, her interests had been
saceiliced by England, as was fully shown by the
despatches of the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign
Affairs (which the hon. member read to the house)—that
noble lord asowing in 1831 that his fears were not against
Ituesia, but against France. He apprehended, judging from
the conduct of that noble lied, that the same diplomatic
agency which extinguished the life of Poland an 1830,
would, now that she was no longer in a position to assert her
rights, prevent its revival. Poland was the link between
England and France, and if they suffered Poland to be de-
stroyed they could no longer hope for any intercourse be-
tween these countries, or even between the East and the
West. The bon. member concluded by moving that an
humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying far a
copy of the papers relating to the treaty of Unkiar Skeleesi,
and ales fur a c,py of the correspondence that bad taken
place relative to the proffered mediation of Great Britain
between Prussia and Denznerk in respect to Schleswig-
Holstein.
Mr. II Cel E seconded the motion.
Lord I'ALMERSTON said he was quite aware of the
power as well as the right which was possessed by every
member of that house to make a speech upon any subject
without giving notice of his intention ; at the same time,
there bad been certain rules framed ler the convenience of
tho holm, which, when departed from, were produc-
tive of much inconvenience. The hon. member
Stafford was somewhat prone to depart from those
rules. There was a saying attributed to a cele-
brated diplomatist, to the effect that speech was given to
man to enable him to conceal his thoughts ; so also it would
seem that the hon. member placed his notices on the paper
in order to conceal the subject of his motion. The hon.
memlic es notice on the paper stated that it was his intention
to call the attention of the house to the relations of this
country with Russia, and instead of confining himself to that
topic, he bad sprung upon him (Lord Palmerston) two ad-
dresses for papers of which he had given no notice whatever.
The hon. member had stated the reasons why the house
should accede to the addresses in question. The first of those
motions related to the treaty of Unkiar ffkelesai, and the
second to the offer of mediation of Great Britain in respect
to the Schleswig-Holstein question; and the hon. mem-
ber stated that it was necessary fur those papa rs to he laid be-
fore parliament, is order that the country might perceive bow
Russia was combined with Austria for the purpose of pre.
venting Prussian Poland front uniting with the ether por-
tions of that dominion held by Russia end Austria. He
could assure the house that the papers moved for would
throw no light whatever upon that subject. The treaty of
Unkiar Skelessi had lasted eight years, and was de-
tenet, having been put an end to by the events
consequent upon the Syriac war of 1811. That
treaty hail nothing whatever to do with the subjeed
ct
of Polish nationality. The correspondence which rega rd
the affairs of Schleswig-Holstein and the mediation of Great
Britain with Prussia and D. nmark, bad no bearing upon
the affairs of Poland or of Russia, and he objected to pro-
duce any such correspondence, as it might be highly preju-
dicial to make it public at present. (Hear, hear.) The
house, he was persuaded, would not desire such correspond-
ence to be produced. (Hear, hear.). The hon. member frr
Stafford went into a great many topic', but he (Lord Pal-
merston) should abstain from follow iisg him in the arguments
or details he had entered upon. The hon. member had ex-
patiated against the treaty of the Holy Alliance. He (Lord
Palmerston) was the last man in that house who would
stand up and offer soy opposition to the disparagement
of that treaty by the koaourable member. There was
Bethel in the policy pursued by the present go-'
vernment which could be in any way assimilated
to the treaty of the Holy Alliance,or which either anticipated
or would be sue posed to lead t i the consequences aimed at
by that treaty. When the hon. member stated that the Se-
cretary of State for Foreign Affairs exercised a controlling
influence over the affairs of foreign European states
cribed to the government of which he hail the honunto be
a member, a tar rester degree of power than the course of
events on the continent would bear out. The government
of her Majesty had done their best for the good of their
country, as well as of mankind, and with some success in
several instances, but with l good fortune in others—fbr
they had not accomplished all that they wished. But he
certainly did not understand what the cases were that the
hon. member put on the footing of having been dealt
with under the policy dictated by the treaty of the Holy
Alliance. Perhaps the hon. member alluded to Belgium
it so, he must remind him that the King of Holland had
himself called the conference, at which the terms of Bettie-
went between that country and himself were to be based'
and that conference had been called during the ministry 4
the Duke of Wellington, the two first protocols having ben
signed, not by hermit', but by the Earl of Aberdeen, who
was then fond inn secretary. Therefore, the hon. member's
el:Fervations on that head altogether passed by the present
government, and he WAS ready to accede to all th it bad been
said by him respecting the treaty of the Holy Alliance. The
hon. member then said that the whole policy of England
had been directed towards the promotion of the objects
sought to be attained by Russian diplomacy. lie (Lord
Palmerston) was aware that the hon. member had a
standing i tea upon that subject—(a laugh)—and
that it was useless for him to try to alter it.
(Hear, bear.) All he should pay upon the subject
therefore was that her Majesty's, ministers tried by every
mesas in their power to benefit the country to which they
hod the honour to belong and which they served, tied that
they recognised neither national enemies nor national
friends in foreign power?, but if they found a foreign nation
pursue a policy which accorded with their own they re-
gard,el it as friendly ; and if not, they regarded it otherwise
than as friendly. The hon. member had quoted a sentence
from a book written by M. Louis Blanc, wherein that person
attributed homer intieitions to h im ( Lord Palmerston) because
be lied said thatin 1831 France was the great object of jealousy
to England, How M. Louis Blanc could arrive at a know-
ledge of what he had thought, he knew not, but as far
as the statement in question was concerned, he must
observe that no English minister could have
made any such assertion, seeing that England and France
wire joined together in effecting a great European object at
the particular time when such a statement was attributed to
him, and, consequently, when there existed the least pas-
sible ground for anyjealousy on the pert of England. The hon.
member stated that it was this jealousy which had prevented
the Polish nationally from being restored. He admitted '
that Russia had rights under the treaty of Vienna, and he
(Lord Palmerston) must remind the hon. member that the
government with which he had acted never admitted Russia
to possess other rights than those already ceded to her by
the treaty of Vimnie and certainly had never dreamed of
going beyond the strict limits of that treaty. He did not
know whether it was necessary for him to answer the other
portions of the speech made by the honourable
absent member. It was on principle that he had
objected to the course pursued by him. He ob-
ji eted to the first address, beciuse the papers called for
would throw no ht uth subect, and he should
reest the second address because eha objected to the product
tion of any correspondence, on the ground that each a course
would very seriously mar the negotiations that weee going
on between this country' and Prussia, and Denmark.
Mr. lIUME said that he we: anxious to explain his reasons
for having seconded the motion of the hon. member. On a
former evening an hen. baronet had counted out the house
in a very ungracious manner the hon. member having a
motion immediately pending. When he (Mr. Hume) bad
met the hon. member that day he told hint that he should
be happy to give him the opportunity of which lie had been
deprived, of bringing forward his motion, and on the ground
that the house ought not to deny a hearing to any hon. mem-
ber,
he had offered to second the motion. With regard to the
motion itself, whilst he concurred generally with to e hon. '
member in thinking that improper interference in foreign
nations had too often taken place, be did not think he had
made out a case for the production of the papers and corm.
spore:knee moved for.
Mr. K. TYNTE expressed his surprise at the conduct of
the hen. member for Montrose in seconding a motion which
he subsequently determined not to vote for. He hoped the
house would not assent to the production of the papers asked
for by the hon. member.
Lord D. STUART agreed with the noble lord as to the
propriety of adhering to the rules' laid down for not dis-

N ..

.....—.;—...---•
from the three counties of Northensbeeland, Cumberland,
and Westmorelied, was 17,0001., of which they received only
:necieb:mtumett,w,hthahenieepedhrot;eayrrrdooelha"wiwideerstabbe,"...rimeintglaeinTiodiegydathwr:eeiica:dkihff.neterhreeekrnoacceoCut.:Thl
mei
nret.
petitioners, hewever, told their own story, and they left
it to be inferred that the dean and chapter received all the
money, They stated that the dean and chapter received 2,0001.
tree why tbe dean cad obapter should be called on in their
sheraater of lay impropriators to supply the spiritual dog'.
Wien of them' places out of an income of 3501., whilst
others were receiving the difference. 'she amount received
by each canon of the cathedral of Carlisle was 5301., which
could not be considered too much for thole who occupied a
pre.eminent position in the church. He hoped he never
would to far forget the principles en which he always acted
as to be unmindful of the spiritual destitution of the country.
lie felt now as strongly as ever the national as well as per-
gola! duly of t,
as the instruction of those who were
ignorant ; but, as he stated on .1 former
subsequent inquiry convinced him, that could not be done
by iedividuals. It could not be done by the plan of the
right hon. baronet. What could be done by that plan had
been done, but the spiritual destitution of the people was
not diminished. He agreed in the expression of the
noble lord that civil and social prudence, as well as
religious duty, called upon them to provide for the Metric.
thin of those who were spiritually destitute. There was no
better guarantee for the permanence of their institutions,
and the rights of property, than that the people should be
religious and educated. How were these to be imparted to
them? All their exertions, and all the exertions of the dis-
senter had( failed to overtake the amount of destitution
which prevailed, They should not look to an altered distri-
bution of the church revenues, which had already been car-
ried as far as it could be carried, or to any other extrinsic
means, but to national aid ; and the nation would fail in its
duly if, while it provided at the public expense for all the
other interssts of the country, it neglected and disregarded
that which he bell. yed to be the most vital and essential of
all. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. AGLION BY said that the bon. baronet had made •
most uncalled for and unreasonable allusion to him person-
ally, arid he could not conceive what had caused him to
do so; fur, although he cordially supported the proposition
of his honourable colleague, which he hoped would excite
that attentien in the house which be knew it excited
throughout the country, he never said anything to justify
the hon. baronet in alluding to him as he had done. It was
true that he had asked the right hon. baronet the Secretary
of State when he would bring in hie hill for making com-
pulsory the enfranchisement of copyholds, and he would
continue twin so again and again till that odious custom was
eholished. It was true that he was a leaseholder under the
dean and chapter, but that had nothing to do with the ques-
tion before the hostas.
Col. :dl lITHORP defended the clergy of Lincoln.
Mr. Vs. F. GLADSTONE quite agreed with the hon.
mover, that hie motion bed in no way been based upon
pentane' assault or individual attack. The question had
been based, and properly based, on the opastion and adult-
ni-tration of the law, and taking this view of it,
he routed not but hops that, when the pressure of public
business permitted, the attention of her Majesty's govern-
ment would be directed to this sub;ect. Ile did not desire
to pare or cut down the revenues of these cathedral., and if
he said one word in their disparagement it was only because
he M.N. ved they might he made far more conducive to the
general purpose. of the church.
lard J. RUSSELL agreed with the right hon. gentleman
who had just sat down, that it might be very desirable to
take tome further measures with respect to the cathedral
toilestaishments. But he wan unwilling, by silence, to permit
it he mourned that he entirely agreed with the way in
which this case halt been put by the hon. mover. That hon.
gentlema , seemed to think that these establishmenta were
useless, end even prejurbeial; his own slew, he must admit,
wee that cathedra. might be mode very valuable to the pur-
poses of religion and of the church. He must further say
that he did not think the hon. gentleman had taken a very
correct view of several of the points connected with the sub.
ject. For example, he was under • mistake in cup.
pining that enthednal dignitaries were prohibited from
Riving their livings, except to any of ir oen
body. New, it was entirely in their power to
give their livings to any clergyman in the diocese,
who hail wail as ineunihent or curate therein for a period
of five years. Again, with respect hi the conga uation of the
art, the hon. and learned member had certainly net attri-
buted sufficient importance to what had been done under the
authority of the ecclesiastical commission. That Commission
had power. under words which he (Lord J. Russell) had in.
trieluced, with .he scent of the late Archbiehop of Canter-
bury, and the late EAT! of liarrowhy, to apply the funds of
cathedral stalls end prebends, to the cases of parishes
having large populations, and to those parishes out of which
!neat tithes meht arise. The hon. member's argument,
therefore, certainly was not borne out that the first object
*tumid he to raise the incomes of livings merely geographi.
rally approxtrasting to cathedrals, nor did he (Lord J.
Helton i think it would he cl. sirable that such augmentations
should he the first to be made. Differing from the hon. and
leaned gentlemen, however, as to these points, he was glad to
pay his trihuta to his induery and perseverance ii. dealing with
the question generally. toil he was quite prepared to say
that in the general spirit of hie motion he entirely concurred.
Ile did not precisely see how the plan proposed by the right
hon. gentleman who had just sat down, of appropriating stalls
to the purpoec-s of theological learning, amid he carried out,
because questions would undoubtedly arise as to how the
most learned men could be selected • but in any propo-
sition to appropriate the proceeds of stalls to the ad-
vancement of parochial objects he entirely concurred. If
the house at ell agreed in that view, he had only to add that
though th. re might be inconvenience in agreeing to the
motion in its present form, yet he thought the whole subject
re luired attention ; that the government would continue as
they hod done, to give it that attention; and that he thought
that the latter words of the motion, that " Measures to
aacertain whether the cathedrals might not lie rendered
more conducive to the services of the church and the epritual
instru, ton of the people," ought to be adopted.
Mr. ILUME expressed his gratification at hearing the
concluding words if the noble lord's declaration. Ile ad-
verted to the argument of the hon. member for the Univer-
sity, that church property stood on the same footing as
private property, and dewed that such was the case.
d (Hear,
hear.) They must recellect that this property was erived
from the public.
Mr. °MILBURN said the hon. gentleman who had just
eat down seemed entirely to have forgoVen that, during the
last 20 years. material alterations had been made in the ca-
thedral establishments of the country ; and he begged himto
show how and when the property of the church was given to
it by parliament and by the public? (Hear, hear.)
With rigord to the motion before them, he though:,
at er the speech of the noble lord, very little remained
fir them to discuss. Ile had never been a supporter of
abuses, and if the abuses stated to night, or
Hatart of them,
were found to exist he should be one of th to assent to
intir.y.f. HEYWOOD was not quite aware of what was the
Use of deans and chapters in this cuuntry. It appeared to
him that in A ime respects they were drawbacks upon the
efficieuey of the church.
Sir E. N. BUXTON was most unwilling to let any op-
portunity piss without tbauking the hon. member for Cock-
ermout h for bringing this question forwazd. It did seem to
him that with a teeming population in our large towns it
was our du'y to apply the funds of the church to supply the
neaenitiesof a spiritually destitute people. Church property
was only held by the c urch in trust for the benefit of the
people, and it ought ta be applied for the relief of their spi-
ritual necessities wherever they existed. Ile had head with
regret that any portion of that property was received by
persons who did little or nothing Inc their money.
Mr. HENLEY sail thatthc hon member whohsd just sat
down went rather far in his doctrine of trusteeship, for he
not only thought that the state had a right to see the trust
performed, hat also to declare what that trust was. This
was but one st. p from saying that they could do as they
liked with church property. He objected altogether to this
new fanged notion, 'ls it church property was trust property.
Atid could not say that the case which the hon. mover had
brought before the house had convinced him of the justice of
the motion with which he had concluded. Going over such
large &Ideas that gentlemen had done it was not difficult
for him to dress up a ease in the manner he had, especially
when he got his Lets to suit hie case, instead of getting his
case to suit his facto. The hon. member had certainly failed
to console. him that nay gaol could result from the matte.
Mr. IIORSMAN, in explanation, stated that the hon.
member had misapprehended souse points of what he had
said. Ile had stated that those establishments which w
ere
ere
endowed for great purposes. es now administered, did
render the services for seliich they were originally intended;
and he conceived that such as offiterratioa was c. manly not
equivalent to expressing an opinion that those establishments
were useless. Not one syllable had fallen from him about
cutting down their revenues, or reflecting on them as use-
ful institutions. What lie had said was, that the more valu-
able thote inaitution. &feta be made, the greater print
-th
shame if Mel were suffered to be abused. Ills
ciple was that attain duties should always be assigned to
such offices The hon. member for the University of Ox-
ford hod questioeed the aorta etneas of his eeturne, and the
authority on which he had made his statemehts; hat lie pea-
ce del to inientain that the returns were in every case aoeu-
rate, and with ,egad to the other point, that he made no
statement unless he Was prepsred to give up the authorities
upee which dial were founded. Ile understood trim the
noble lord that ',dhow going to the length of issuing a cora-
miasi.tn its inquiry he admitted the necessity of such an in-
quiry, and was ready to go into it. Unit. r those circum-
etimees he (Mr. Horan...) did not feel it necessary to
proceed with his motion, and would accordingly withdraw it.
FOREIGN POLICY.
Mr. URQUHART rose to call thnectasit,tee.hrnitaLonnirecof the house
to the relations of this country with Russia, in rperfeeiriemnicenaryto
cently. taken
placethe e; events
its..:f
ht
ehe..rir
tthh:fahrleuuromp:m.
place in the wen of Europe which CIU46 i sense of insecu-
rity to he connected with the conduct of the foreign affairs of
ars &lianas ; mid so late as the previous day in Paris • ma
infestation of public leeliug had taken place with regard to
Poland which he conceived must point out the reel seurcts
of Europe's danger. The proposition which he was about to
make was avoldil. It was whether the government had
neglected that portion of the country's interest which was
alone within the ephere of government to conduct, and if. in
eonsequence of that tieglect, another power had
this profited to
an extent which promised to be dangerous to country.
He would preter to place his resolution in a different form,
and he would accordingly make it an address it
papers, which he euppo.ed there would he no dif-
ficulty in granting. The hon. members who had for-
merly advocated the cause of Poland had all disappeared, and
while he (Mr Urquhart) felt humiliated at being left nearly
alone at :he task, he thought he must be encouvged by the
house in the course which he was taking when the condition
of Poland was considered, and when it was else considered

%,

cussing any topic in that houso without ei.ing
notlee. At the same time, as the known and ateWeg
intention of the hon. member for :Stafford was m
call the attention of the t.outie generally to the state of the
foreign relations of England, he was surprised to heat the
noble lord object to the speech of the h..a. item
point of o-der. It was highly advisa,,le that some Ma,
member should wasionally cell the etc. n'ion of the home
to the state of the foreign r• lat ions of Great Bri.ain, and me
one had more frequently or etficitntly dime 61.1 than 'atonable
lord when not seated on the treasury bench. The policy
pursued by Russia had a most a t bearing on Eng.
tend ; and at the present mow nt mere- so than ever, num&
daring the critical position of Europe, ye wr by
m ens of Poland that Russia was ctnsflj eennee.t.d
Europe, and that was the reason why the was so soigne
to maintain her ascending in Pohsucl. Ile could not
avoid eking this opportunity of urging upon the attention ee
the governmeut and the hou •t: Inc pets. •
fortunate and oppressed inb who not only
were tyrannised. utter for their arbor aidt deter,,,Leed
lion to the cause of liberty, hut bee. been most basely red
shamefully calumniated throughout Europe by toe false
hoods at nt forth by the German re-s, and adopted by the
prow of this country.
Mr. BLAU IiSTO.NE said that haviog travelled
Poland, he was bound to rope. so his spi lion that :tit
of the nationality of the Poles was ill 41111 S extraordioary
chimera that ever entered any mati's lows. So pow wen eu,
people that the majority of the town• were in possession of
the Jews.
Dr. BO WRING said that other hon. membets had been
in Poland as well as the hon. nu in,.er who hot lot spoken;
and there was some unanimity in the beli-f Oat a great
wrong tad been done to that eountry, .n I in the hope eme
that wrong would one day be redrew.. d, by the re establish.
ment of Poland's nationality,
Mr. I..lltqU HART said his motion, having bees one mom
with a Tien to obtain information then for any other pm•
pose, he would not press it.
The motion was then withdrawn
Mr. BROTH EItTON immediately rose, and moved thes
the house do now adjeurn. (Hear. her
Mr. H. BERKELEY said he ri..t haw.. attempted
to bring on his motion relating to the irti lOC at 10 late sa
hour, but he wished to ask the Wei lowilher for Montrose
whether he would allow the ballot to b. proposed sic el!►
rate motion on Tuesday nowt ?
Mg. HUME di alined to accede toe: y ,neh arrmsgesaiat.
Mr. /SANK ES postponed his eno.i .11 tor the repeal cid*
Railway Commission Aet till to-in re oir (this da3).
ADMINISTRATION Or ettl%ll NAL JUSTICE.
Mr. BAINES obtained leave to Moog in a bill forth.
further removal of defects in the administration of criminal
indicts.

WINDSOR CASTLE.
Lord MORPETH obtain. d lesve to bring in a hill to
empower the Commissioner. of Woods end Forests to make
alterations and improvements in eLe approaches to the earth
and town of Windsor.
LUNATIC ASYLUMS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The LORI) ADVOCATE moved th,t the select commit-
tee on this bill do consist of the tollowiog 21 members:—
'l-he Lord Advocate, Lord Ash', y, Sir J Grams, ea
Secretary at War. Mr. Traill, Mr. Ch.rteris, Mr. Soignee-
Oen( rel for Scotland, Colonel Mu. e Mr James Loth, 8g
George Cleric, Viscount Melgund, Mr. F, lward Et ice, Mr.
Stuart Worley, Mr. Oibson Craig, V......0nne Drumlamig,
Mr. Bouvrrie, Mr. Home Drummowt, r. Cnarles lion 4
Mr. Fergus, Mr. Smollett, and Mr. For.l)ce.
Mr. FORBES objected to the comptnition of the tow
mince.
Attrr • few words from the LORD ADVOCATE, Mr. En-
FON, Mr. MUME, and Mr. AGI.IoNISY, +he raniun lam Id&
drawn, and the appointment of the e mmittee was postprool
until Friday.
La MON. MENINEH here moved the the house be could,
and there not being 40 members pre tot, the homei
adjourned till this day.

Vie epreofi•

MAILS.
The malls for British North America, and the trdted
will be made up en the evening of the i li May.
The overland mails toe Gibraltar, Malta Greece, the Isnthabbeit.
Egypt, Aden, Ceylon, India, Uong-liong, anti the via Sontlemp
ton, will he made up on the morniog ol the Ibtrt Ma).
The overland clued made, rid Marseith-, to the Moi:terreneen,
Fgypt, Aden, Ceylon, India, llong-Kong, ac., will he m. tie up ea the
evening of the 24th May.
The malls for Vigo, Oporto, Lisbon, NI:oleos% Cadiz, and 011iralta
will be made up on the morning of the 2/ eh May.
The snails for New South Vialem Val“ lonian's Land, and Nth
Zealand will be made up ou the evening of toe 3 is: 31.3.
The mails for the West Coast of Africa and Machin. will be made
up on the evening of the 3101 May.
The West India Mails, Including Bern.tla, Nassau, Na
Honduras, New Orleanzi, Vera Came, Vampiio, and Pomo lbw, me
excluding those fur Madeira, Jacruel, Caritiotetia, Santa Hartle,
Gagne, Panama, West Coast of South iiietica, and St. Juana.
Nicaragua, will be made up on the maniac .5 the 2nd Juse.
The mails for the Brazils, the River ilente
t'idro, Perm
burn. Bahia, Madeira, and BUNKO AM., ‘O.ll be made up an Os
evening of the 3rd June.

NOTICE TO ADVERTISERS.
The number of STAMPS immed •he authorities MU*
Stamp-office, during 1847, to the
DAILY NEWS was 3,447,009
This, we believe, is within elght per teat of the noir
issued to the Morning Herald, nogg Chrowids,
Morning Post, ALL PUT TQUETILEk
In dition to the above, issued Iv t!.. DAILY NBA
Morning Paper, there were issued t .t th. F.vening Edit*
THE EXPRESS 778,714
Which was more we h!liere, were lamed eagle
the Globe or &oisckerd, Evening P. man
r..

BMW WATER AT LOP U. 04 REIDOE.
Ten DAy—lionles. 31 min Art I Uwe.=
To YANA& IS mia.pßlA I MR•rwoo. IS Wu. put E

LONDON, W EDNES I)A Y, MA Y 17.
WHAT all men feared has takes place in Paris. Ths
more maniac of the democrats having got up a pee.
cession on behalf of the Poles, or under the pretelt
of a movement in their favour, marched to fie
chamber, and found it, from either ,he treason or the
inadvertence of General COCKTAI-, commanding*,
national guard, int Ificiently protected. The ale
leaders accordingly broke in, mounted the tribal,
invaded the President's chair, harangued, made sm.
tions, sword in hand, for the dissolution of the gem
ment, and of course carried all by the acclamation d
their followers. Yet the criminal fools seem to hams
organised force or plan for seen. mg or perpetast4
the revolution, the forms of which they bad atessalla
in going through. After their votes, they mended
off, as in February,to the Hotel-de-Ville, to constitute
a provisional government. But tilts time they neither
left a chamber nor found the citizens iati•
tnidated. The chamber resumed its sitting, and decreed
the arrest of the seditious. The national guard mustered
not only to the protection of the chamber, bat
marched to rid the lintel-de-Ville of the anarchists,
most of whom have been arrested.
Disgusting and lamentable as aro such scenes, it
takes from one's anxiety for the present and fears for
the future to observe how vainly the would-be jam-
bins seek to reenact the party and the feats of the
first great revolution. They perhops do not won
the terrible energy of crime; but the people are
without the taste for it. None of these men d
action durst propose the s .edding of blood,
without which all their efforts at resuscitating the
terror of former times is vain. In fact, their
last outbreak has been more ridiculous than sap
thing else, and overwhelms the perpetrators under the
weight of its absurdity. BNlttlt.,, BLOC, Oa
BLANQUI are heroes worthy of the stocks—not the
guillotine. And it must be owned that this is bee—
to die of ridicule is the very euih inasia of revolution.
The anarchists thus interred, or povrerl-sq, there
remain merely the fears of a ton great reaction—
the danger that the moderates, completely renvered
from their fears, will eject from tile governmeat ell
men of thoroughly popular aympaillies, and ehil
proceed to establish a republic, surrounded he**
narchic institutions. The reaction may go ea far--eY
threatens to do so—as excluding not only the Ltetr-
ItoLuss, the Louis BLANCS, an,l the FLOCOSS free
power, bat even to ostracise LAM RTINE, or post
him
their
rhias evidentt desire still to conciliate the peace
and le
It is quite manifest from the arts, the words, god*
attitude of LAMARTINE, that he dreads the ffingoll
aside and the disinheriting of the popular purty,
disappointing all their hopes, fleeting all their We,
and the bringing the government beck into the hods
of those who might have tie.y welded it, had tc'tli
PHILIPPE had the common sense to trot. *
I liberals of his time. LAM ARTIN E Of
! section, and collision, and blood, and a ler!'
of dangerous struggles to he attenJed 1,15
nneUtain results. Instead, ill, retort., of threw:
ing iiims,;4linto the arms of the old dynastic
tion, he holds by the people populltarl
loping to calm them, lead them, no.
mi
them. The members of the last chamber. who L'•
so formidable a body in the new assembly, es°,.._°"'
understand or forgive this. They want a speedyvu!"
inheriting of the people, and a confiscation of that
hopes, or at least a gratifying them solelyafterthe
fashion of their own peculiar plities and phileeopht
But LAMA.RTINS, almost alone and p2r.onallei
the link of connexion, the living compromise, beteg*
these two parties ; it is his standing l,etween them
which keeps both from open war and mutual doge:
tion. Any great mistrust, therefore, she
her or the parties to LanAurtsf,
by eit 0
ono of the worst signs of the future
It is certain that the old liberals, supported by ale!!
number of the national guards, and by Moe repuhle

L