The Express.
London, England, 1853-02-18 00:00:00

inadtruf persona. who had attended protestant worship; but
on that day, as appeared by the papers on the table, an
English gentleman, Mr. Walker, and two Florentine gen-
tlemen were waiting to see the banditti in his house,
when the police entered, end arrested Francis Msdiai, end
conveyed him to prison, radon the following day his wife
Reim Itladiat and their servant were also arrested and im-
prisoned. In September, • young Post-office clerk was
tea on a charge of having a Bible in his possession ;
no Bible was found, but his wife had admitted that he had
I a Bible which he was in tie habit of reading ; and for
this offence, and no other, this young man was cast into
prison. and possibly had been killed by the severity with
which he had been treated, for nothing had been heard of
him since. His object, in referring to these cases, was to
show that the persecution of the Medial was part of a
system, as he had said. On Nov. 25, • decree was issued
charging the Medial with " impiety," which charge was
attempted to be proved by the 16th article of the Florentine
Code, which denounced as impiety the public teaching of
doctrines contrary to the catholic religion, and affixing as
the punishment of the crime imprisonment and labour en
the public works for a time or for life. But • reference to
that article would show clearly that it was framed to meet
public and overt acts only, and that it was not applicable to
the ease tithe Medial had been most satisfactorily and con-
clusively argued by Mr. 1). Ihll, the eminent queen's
counsel, to whose able paper in the " Law Review " on
the subject be invited attention. The hon. gentleman, after
citing other instances of persecution, and precedents for in-
terference of the nature proposed. said—He trusted the noble
lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs would not oppose the'
motion, nor cease to make efforts on behalf not only of the
Medial (however anxious he might be for their release), but
he (Mr. Kinusird) earnestly trusted that wherever our
brethren on the continent were persecuted on account of
their religious faith, the voice of England would be raised
in their behalf, and that we should not be intimidated from
expressing our opinions plainly and openly, and putting
the moral weight of this country forward in behalf of our
persecuted brethren on the continent. (Hear, hear.) The
hon. gentleman concluded by reading his motion.
Lord D. STUART, iu seconding the motion, said that
he was much obliged to his hon. friend for bringing it for.
ward, end the people of this country ought to recognise a
debt of gratitude to him fur doing so. No occurrence on
the continent had of late attracted so much attention as the
cape of the Medial, and the people of this country had
expressed their sympathy with their protestant brethren
all over the world, and they had seen their feelings reflected
in the acts of the British government. As to interference
with the other countries of Europe, it was well known that
Oliver Cromwell had interfered on behalf of the protest-
ants of France ; and treaties had been entered into for the
protection of the Waldenses and the Vaudois, and the repre-
sentatives of this country had been instructed to remonstrate
when those treaties were broken. It was not till 1815, when the
holy alliance made a new settlement of Europe,thet the uglier-
innate Vaudois were handed over to the tender mercies of
the Kiog of Piedmont, who in four days after he reached
his palace at Turin subjected the Vaudois to religious die-
abilities ; nor did they again enjoy religious liberty till the
constitution was established the other day in Sardinia.
There was no reason why there should not be treaties for
, the protection of protestant in Piedmont and Tuscany just
as there were treaties guaranteeing the exercise of religion
other than that of the country in which people lived, as in
• Turkey, where Christians were permitted to exercise • re-
• ligion which was not that of the State. There were also
. treaties for the prevention of the slave trade in other coon-
: tries; and why should there not be treaties with states, by
• which they would be debarred from interfering with their

correct. (The hen. member hero repeated the sentence of
the mutt in full, the sentence being howl upon finding the
accused guilty of the crime of proselytism, and of acting
under the direction of foreign teachers, &c ) Ils was net
anaious (he went on to observe) to express any opinion one
way or the other upon many of the topiei Ptarted
by the honourable gentleman and the noble lord;
but he would not withhold his coneurreace in one
sentiment expressed by the hon. mover—sic., of condemna-
tion of the psnalty of death upon " the depravers of the
religion of the state." (Hear, hear.) With such a truing
as that he had no sympathy whatever. (lieu, hear.) The
hon. gentleman and the noble lord hod made various state-
ments with respect to acts of the Tuscan government which
he was quite in a position to deny ; but with such refuta-
tion he need not trouble the house on that occasion, into-
much as the statements themselves had no bearings on the
case immediately before him. At the Caine time this iilo-
- case raised a general question ; and the reason why he
I felt so particularly obliged to the hon. gentleman for in-
troducing the matter wee, that he had thus opened uo a
class of ionsiderations which he (Mr. Lacas) himself had
been very anxious to bring under the notice of the hoe*,
and with which he could not hope fur a more favourable op-
portunity ot dealing than that now olio-red. tieing, then,
into the general question, he would for the moinei.t admit,
for the sake of argument, that the Tuscan government was
to be blamed for having punished the Medi AI in the manner
alleges' for the crime of proselytism ; and he would proceed to
ask what had been the conduct of the British government in
cases of an analogous descriptiou, and in which Roman
cathblics in different pare of the world had been concerned ?
The noble lord (Lord 11. Stuart) had referred with emphatic
pathos to tha ease of the nulls of Minsk. That was an
awkward reminiscence and reference. The case had ex-
cited great horror and indignation in this country at the
rrne ; bat he did not remember that the Secretary for
Foreign Affairs on that occasion had directed our mhos-
seder to remonstrate at the Russian court. (Hear.) A
minister of Eugland did not, and need not, tremble before
that mighty potentate, the Emperor of the Hussies ; but
certainly that potentate obtained, in a similar case, far
more courteous consideration from the linglish Foreign.
office than was extended to a humble and miserable Italian
grand duke. (Bear, hear.) Toleration was the principle
of en enlietened age in this enliithterenl country ; and the
treatment of the protestant Madiai could not be compared
in the most extravagant flights of sympathetic fancy to the
infamously cruel treatment of the unhappy Roman catholic
nuns of Minsk. But who ever heard of a Secretary of
State of Great Britain remonstrating with a Russian em-
peror on his intolerance? (Hear, hear) Oh, no; the
prudence and discretion of her Majesty's ministers sug-
gested that the Czar was an awkward person to meddle with,
and accordingly not a syllable of protest ever reached him.
Take other cases in which Roman catholic.' were cone, roed,
and it became evident that the English government, acting
with the implied sanction of the English people, only found
it necessary to ask for toleration on behalf of those who
held a faith which was not the faith of the majority of
Christendom, but which wan the faith of her Majesty and
of a majority of her subjects. In these papers, developing
the ease of the Medial, Ann. members would find a des-
patch written by Lord Malmesbure, then Secretary for
Foreign Affairs, in which that noble lord gave the rationale
of the British system in this respect—the theory and the
practice of the Foreign office. (The hon. member here
quoted copiously from a despatch of Lord Malmesbury to
Mr. Searletr, in' which the late Secretary for Foreign
Affairs states that- intervention in religious matters can
only be an intervention on bzhalt of members of the par-
ticular national church of tho intervening party.) Thus,

... .. .
subjects in exercise of their religion =cording to their the Foreign-office " toleration" was not .• religious tolera.
conscience ? He (Lord D. Stuart) felt sentiments of regret, tion ;" it meant only toleration for protestants. And, is
pain and indignation when he saw any one. persecuted on fact, in this instance, Lord Malmesbury intervened, on the
account of his religion, and he applied the principle in its ground that it was his duty "as the protestant minister of
largest sense; that is;he was not against the persecution of a protestant sovereign." (Hear, ham.) Now, he (Mr.
protestants, or against the persecution of Jews, or of Raman Lucas) did not know whether the House of Com-
catholica, or Greeks, or ot any particular sect, but he was mons would adopt that principle ; he hoped pot.
against persecution of all sorts wherever it might be. At all events he, for one, would not; and
(Hear, bear.) The protestant. were not the only reli- he and those who thought with him could not, therefore,
gionists who were subject to persecution, but there had be expected to accept the words of a resolution which lent a
been men of the sincerest motives who had persecuted one sanction—a colour—to such a theory, which had been put
another, and put each other to death, believing that they forward, in the most prominent way, in papers produced
were all the time doing God good service. That seemed to by the Foreign-office. (Hear, hear ) Certainly, he ought
be true which had been somewhat irreverently said by the not to be surprised—hardly shocked—for the practice was
poet— in accordance with the theory. Not negatively, but pool-
That Christians have burnt each other, quite persuaded tively, this had beeu the historical practice of the Foreign-
That all the Apostles would have done ss they did. office. As an exemplar, he would point to the noble
He would say that Roman catholics had been as much lord the present Home Secretary, and he would
.persecuted as protestant* in our times. Look at the refer to the many papers which had proceeded
conduit of the Emperor of Russia. How bad he nested from that noble lord's accomplished diplomatic pen
Roman catholic*? A petition had been presented to the to justify him (Mr. Lucas) in selectieg the noble lord for
Cur from the Polish provinces, and also from his own the office of defender of the conduct of the Grand Duke of
dominions, stating the persecution which had been carried Tuscany. (A laugh.) He would briefly state why. Most
on by an ecclesiastical commission, who beat and slew the hon. members would remember the expulsion ot the Jesuits
Roman catholic.. The persecution of the nuns of Minsk from Switzerland, in 1847. The noble lord took an active
could not but be remembered. A remonstrance had even port in those transactions. He, the official alvocate of the
bees made to the emperor on account of the persecution of principle of toleration fur members of the church of England,
the Roman catholic!. A large amount of the revenues of was found sided in favour of the expulsion of the Jesuits,
the churches and convents of the Roman catholic* had who had been guilty of no crime—(" Oh, oh," and counter
been forcibly seized and giver to the Greek church, and cries of " Hear, )sear")—who had been found guilty
whole provinces had been ordered by the Czar and corn- of no crime whatever, and whose sole °Rohe, as stated
palled to abjure the Roman catholic faith. Those were by the noble lord, was, that they were doing- in
things which excited his (Lord D. Swart's) horror, us Switzerland exactly what the Madiai had been doing in
much as any persecution of protestants. Such things were Tuscany, and fur the doing of which a Tuscan court had
horrible ; but it would be horrible also if we, in this great condemned them—the punishment exciting the indignation
protestant country, should stand by and not raise our voice of the tolerant Foreign-office. (Hear, hear.) In a despatch
when persons were persecuted, as it was shown they had to Lord Nornienby, dated Nov. 16, 1817, the noble lord
been in Tuscany. Whatever might be the opinions explained his views; and, of course, in that acute way
of Individual members, he hoped that the Roman which distinguished him; be did not ettack the Jesuits
mitholies in that house would, as a body, be in violently, but he elaborately developed the reasons why
&Your of this resolution, and declare themselves they certainly ought to be persecuted—(laughter)—why the
the advocates of the Christian principle of doing unto others most hostile course possible should be taken against them.
es we would have done unto us, and that in this case they (Laughter.) "The Society of Jesuits," said his lordship,
would join the rest of the house in demanding religious " must be looked at in a religious as well as in a political
toleration in Tuscany ; and whether or not government point of view." (Ironical cheers.) lie (Mr. Lucas) could
would agree to the precise motion, he trusted that they understand the cheer; hon. members inferred that
would so act as to forbid to this country the reproach of re- after saying that his lordship justified their expulsion on
ruining supine while such acts, as those detailed in this political grounds. But quite the contrary. (" Hear
instance, were in progress in any part of the world. hear," and laughter.) hits lordship went on to say, that
(Cheers.) in its religious character, the Society of Jesuits was
The resolution having been read, avowedly established to make war„upon the protestant re-
Mr. LUCAS addressed the house. He joined cordially 'igloo ; and that, therefore, in a small country like Swit-
in the expression used by the noble lord who had just sat =eland, where two-thirds of the people were protestants,
down—of thanks to the hon. gentleman who had intro- the introduction of such a society would give rise to dime-
daced this subject, for originating such a discussion • and Wins between the protestants and the Roman eatholies.
with respect to the manner is which it had been introduced, Accordingly, and with the approbation of the " liberal "
he thought nothing could be more appropriate and becom- party in and out of the house, the noble lord recommended
lug, or leas calculated to provoke angry feelings. But he the Diet to expel the Jesuits frorg Switzerland.
could not agree in the resolution which had been laid before (Hear, hear.) And from what part of Switzerland ?
the house ; and mainly for this reason, that, so fares he un- In Tuscany, it would .be observed, the whole people, with
derstood the facts of the case, ha did not believe the rem- a few isolated exceptions, was intensely catholic; mad a
lotion stated those facts correctly. That house could only Tuscan government might have the noble lord's justifies-
take the facts as it got them in the papers recently de- Goa for expelling missionaries who would provoke the ill-
livered ; and it was remarkable that in nearly every feeling of a vast majority. But the Jesuits, in 1847, were
one of the ad caplanduas statements made in this case, whe- expelled from a catholic canton—from the catholic canton
ther in or out of that house, the English public had been of Lucerne ; and they had been established there at the in-
favoured with a totally different version of the story front vitation of Roman catholic authorities. M Wails 'animals,
that which had at last been officially submitted. (Hear, would not the noble lord's justification of the expulsion of
hear.) What was stated in the resolution was, "to bring the Jesuits be ample justification for the imprisonmeet of
under notice," sic., &c., " inconsequence of the persecu- the Medial, whatever difference there was in the cases being
tiona now actively begun in Tuscan yof those who secretly obviously in favour of the Grand Duke? (Hear, hear.)
or openly profess principles held by her Majesty in common There were other cases to be referred to, some remembrance
with the majority of her Majesty's subjects," &c., &c. That of which should be calculated to moderate the fury =Wan
was a statement that the Radial had been punished for catholicity which the " persecution" of the Madiai had es-
holding certain religious views. The case shown by the cited among the dissenters of Great Britain. (Oh, oh.) lie
papers before the house was a different case : and if those could refer to the case which occurred at Tahiti, and which
papers were correct, then it was certain that the had made the name of Mr. Pritchard so celebrated. (Hear,
persecution of the Radial, as it was called, was not hear.) He was afraid he was detsiniug the house too keg—
s persecution for openly or smutty professing any (encouraniag cheers)—but the subject was important; and
particular religions opinions, but that it was a punish. the point of view be was endeavouring to put before
meat of them tor engaging in a system of prose- the house might have the interest of novelty.
lytising, in obedience to and at the instigation of various (The honourable gentleman then went into a de-
foreign missionaries and agents. (Loud cries of "No, no.") tailed narrative, commenting on it OA he proceeded,
He begged it would be observed that he was stating the of the quarrels of Mr. Pritchard, missionary and consul
case made out in the Parliamentary Papers—(no, no)—and at Tahiti, with the French Roman catholic missionaries,
he was prepared to prove that the matter was as he stated. wh mhe would not permit to laud, or, if they did land,
The offence was alleged in the form of the sentence passed ; whom he got expelled ; of the law which he induced the
and here was the whole nature of the case developed in the Tahitian legislature to pass prohibiting the preaching of
very, technical terms of the proceedings before the court, say but the " faith of Britain ;" and of the approval
the statement being that they were punished for acts of which Lord Palmerston, u foreign minister, had extended
proselytism, We acts of proselytism and their character and to all Mr. Pritchard's acts.) But Mr. Fritchard never
their origin being specified. Now, how was it possible to re- was rebuked for conduct for which they would
ooncile that statement with the different statement now rebuke the Grand Duke of Tuscany ; but be re-
contained in the document laid on the table by the hon. mained the representative of this country is the South Sea
mover ? (Hear, hear.) What was the cue the Radial Islands. If the resolution expressed the facts of the case
made out for themselves ? What they said was that they with regard to Tuscany, he should only be prevented from
had only had meetings of a few friends of their own yell- adopting it by one consideration, that the exercise of
gious opinions at their own house. Was that a probable liberality and freedom ought not to be all on one side.
answer to a persecution for holding certain opinions? It (Hear, hear.) Russia had been referred to; but they
was an answer toe charge of toreselytiam; as was also their might look nearer home. The Ecclesiastical Titles Bill
statements while admitting that a young girl who had been had been pretended to be based on the public law of
engaged in their service had left the Roman catholic faith, Europe ; and two blue books had been produced to show the
that she had acted spontaneously, and sot at their instigas footing on which the Romish church stood in other
Lion. The whole bearings of the evidence so far as it was protestant countries. One of these contained a dispatch
disclosed in the documents he held in his hand, pointed from Mr. Gordon, our representative at the court of Sweden,
to this result—that the Radiai had endeavoured to prove who could not speak of Roman catholics without calling
that they were not guilty of the crime (in the Tuscan law) them .‘ Romanists," a piece of official Billingsgate which
of proselytism, bat merely of having private worship in was never reproved by the noble lord who laid the docu-
their own house. fbe sentence declared that the Radial, meats on the table. It was nothing less than an insult to
neither by themselves nor by their witnesses, had been those who assisted in paying his official salary. But from
enabled to overthrow the facts alleged in accusation. And blr.Gordon's despatch it appeared that the act of toleration,
what were those facts? Facts that they had been guilty of as it was called, of 1791, allowed of no monasteries in
proselytism of the most systematic kind, under the influence Sweden, nor any Jews synagogues ezecept in Stockholm,
of foreign agents, and by the instrumentality of money sun- and one or two other large towns. Catholics who spoke
plied from abroad, and as he (Mr. Lucas) believed chiefly disrespcetfally of the Lutheran faith, and who sought to
supplied from this country for a particular purpose. make proselytes, or to induce others to attend their ser-
(Ne, no.) He begged again to observe that he was vices, were subjected to heavy penalties. It could not be
stating the substance of papers laid before every member. said that these laws were inoperative; for Mr. Gordon rave
He took the facts from those papers. He declined to accept a statement with the greatest animation and delight of the
I
the fiction they had heard so much of, and which was ins- way in which these laws had been put in force. On one
plied in the resolution now submitted. He adapted occasioa a proselytising priest at Stockholm bad been com-
the view which these papers justified—that explanation plained of; representation was made to the court of Rome,
which we net adopted as an after thought, but which was and his recall had been procured. But there were acts of
given from the very first by the Tuscan government, and persecution going on throughout Europe against ca-
which would be found in Mr. Scarlett's despatch to the tholics which loudly called for the interfer-
Foreign-office, dated August 22, 1861. The Tuscan minis- ence of this government, if they took up the
ter would there be found to hays said that different reli- ease of the Radial moles, they would write themselves up
gious faiths were tolerated, but that the polio" of the go- 1 throughout Europe as men who were only sensible to op-
vernment could not permit foreigners to tamper with the 1 presaiou when directed against on. side. lie meant shortly
religioa of the natives of Tuscany, more particularly at jto submit a motion on the subject. The government had
this moment, when these pretended conversions to pro- interfered in the ease of the ldadiai ; and he meant to test
testonism were made the medium of carrying out certain i their sincerity by asking them to interfere in behalf of
hostile political views. That was the case the Tuscan go- ' Roman Catholics persecuted io protestant countries. (Hear,
vernment made out for itself—that was the case I hear.) In Sweden, so recently as 1848, a man WAS con-
which the Court, sentencing the Medial, had kept in view ; . witted and hued forty dollars for reading aloud a chapter
and what this resolution now asked the house to do was, 'in the Bible, and saying a " paternosier." In the same
to constitute that house a court of appeal from the court in Iyear a Lutheran minister of Stockholm sent four policemen
Tuscany, and to declare that that first court hail not d•-eideil to apprehend a poor woman whose husband said she had
on the facts and the law of the case. as the law existed in i embraced the catholic. religion. In 184.5 two men became
the Tuscan code, and that members of that house were caiholica, and their property was confiscated ; one of them
better informed on this subject than Tuscan laywers were ; died soon after at Copenhsgeu, and left his family in beg"
and that come quo ntly that house was entitled to decree that gary. When he brought forward his motion, founded on
the judges of the Tuscan court had erred in their juriedic these cases, he should ask Mr. Kitinaird to second it; his
tion in this cuss., both as to the law and as to the facts. I object being to open a new field for the operatious of the
(Hear.) Now, he held that thin was a position which it was F-reqrn-orti.'e, based on the priiseia:os of humanity.
impo•isible tke House of Commons could assume. (than) His After citing some other cases of persecution in Saida,
notion was that in an accusation of this kind, sinless, in- i the hon. gentleman said the laws there we e just as
deed, they bed evidence of a most superlative and peaal as in Tuscany, and called just as loudly the inter-
, transceniont nature on the other aide, they must take for Terence of the foreign deportment. Ile rut base re-
granted that the finding of the Tuscan court was true, and ferreil to cases going on at this moment in euburgb,
that the law as pronounced by the Tuscan court *val. alas where, but a few mouths ago, a catholic priest had fan