The Express.
London, England, 1847-11-26 00:00:00

bt Court.

- - -
Earl Spencer, Lord Chamberlain, left Osborne, Isle
of Wight. on Wednesday afternoon, for town.
A Cabinet Council was held at twelve o'clock
yesterday at the residence of the Marquis of Lansdowne, in
Berkeley square. The ministers present were Lord John
Russell, the Marquis of Lansdowne, Sir George Grey, Vis-
count Palmerston, Earl Grey, the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, the Earl of Auckland, Sir John Hobliouse, Lord
Campbell, the Marquis of Clanricarsle. the Right Hon. H.
Wencher', and Vismunt Morpeth. The council at three
hours.
Mr. Henry Grattan, M.P., Mr. Tenieon, M.P., Mr.
French, purr., Mr. Callaghan, M.P., and a deputation of
thirty-two other Irish members of the House of Commons,
had an interview with Lord John Russell yesterday, at his
official residence in Downing-street.
A Deputation from North Shields, consisting of Mr.
Pon, Mr. Spencer, Mr. Meese, Yr. Rennison, Mr. Crighton,
Mr. Dale, Ilr. Rippon, J.P., Capt. Linakill, Mr. Barker, and
Mr. Lietch, had an interview with the Chancellor of the
Exchequer yesterday, at his official residence in Downing.
street. The deputation was accompanied by Mr. William
Gray, M.P.
The Ecclesiastical Cornmiasionere for England had
a general meeting yesterday at their office, in Whitehall-
The Rev. Dr. Hampden had an interview with
Lord John Russell yesterday.

DEPUTATION OF IRISH REPRESENTATIVES
TO LORD JOHN RUSSELL.
Yesterday afernoon a numerous deputation of Irish
representatives waited on the Premier ter the purpose of
bringing under the consideratioa of the government the
resolutions adopted at the sittings of the council in Dublin,
and to urge the necessity of prompt and effective relief for
the population of those districts in Ireland where distress
and destitution exist. The deputationista were courteously
received by Lord John Rowell. After the formality of in-
troducing to his lordship such of the members as now served
in parliament for the first time,
Mr. 11. GRATTAN opened the proceedings by stating that
he and his brother representatives waited upon the noble
lord for the purpose of formally bringing under consideration
the resolutions adopted at the sittings of the National Council,
and with the view of obtaining from him an expression of
opinion on the various measures which the deputationista,
after mature and most anxious deliberation had resolved
ought to be introduced and enacted during the present
session of parliament. Whatever shades of opinion might
exist among the Irish members with regard to the best mode
of practically effecting a permanent improvement, morally
and socially, in the condition of Ireland, they were all
unanimous in considering, that great distress existed in'
many districts of Ireland, and that in order to prevent the
sacrifice of human life, or rather, he should say, to check the
fearful progress of destitution and death, the most prompt
and effective measures of relief were imperatively necessary,
for no matter what might be said to the contrary, the pre-
gent poor-law was inadequate to the material alleviation of
suffering throughout the entire of Ireland. The repre-
sentatives of the Irish people were impressed with a sense of
the awful responsibility imposed upon them, and intimately
acquainted as they were, from personal observation, with the
dreadful sufferings which thousands of their fellow-country
men were at that moment undergoing, they conceived
it to be their duty to lose not a moment in urging
her Majesty's ministers to take the alarming state
of the country into their immediate consideration, with

a view to remedial measures. They wet e anxious to carry
out the principle of a poor-law in its integrity, sad to promote
as far as thee could the collection of the rate • but still they
felt convinced that the resources available from them alone
would not be sufficient, generally, to mast the distress which
should be relieved.
Lord Juno Russets, said he could not be expected to give
en explicit answer to a series of resolutions which were
so numerous, or to go in detail through the various
measures suggested by the National Council, but, u to
the topic particularly and emphatically dwelt on by 'Mr.
Grattan, that of immediate relief for the disuses
prevailing in Ireland, the government had made
every inquiry upon the subject, and they had ascertained
that twenty-two unions would not be able out of their own
mourns to supply the wants of the distressed population.
In thou usions the population was estimated at over
1,2110,000, and they coaxidered that, aided by the poor-law,
with suchineans as the government had at their disposal,
and assistance from other quarters, 600,000 could be sup-
ported for four months. When that time had expired, they
should consider what was necessary further to be done ; but
as to the rest of the country, they relied upon the poor-law,
with the increased employment which would he afforded by
the gentry, who had raised money to the amount already of
500,0001. under the Landed Property Improvement Act. It
would be moot pernicious to allow the people of
Ireland to think that they could rely always upon the giving
of alms by the United Empire. It bad already been found
that, in consequence of the rations distributed last year, they
had been induced not to wake the usual exertions for the
cultivation of the soil, and in the case of fishermen they bad
been found to refuse going to sea, relying for support upon
the bounty of government. This wee a state of things that
should be guarded against. Besides, if a different system
were proposed, it would be rejected in parliament by large
majorities. All parties who wished for the regeneration of
Ireland were anxious to excite a spirit of self-reliance among
the people. Measures of temporary relief, therefore, would
not be carried into effect except in these twenty-two unions
to which he had alluded, and as there was a store of grain in
the government warehouses remaining over from last year,
the government would avail itself of that store to meet any
local emergency that might arise.
One of the deputation remarked that it would he necessary
to establish additional di pots of food in order to save the
people from starving.
Lord J. Rustiext. said the government had already made
arrangements for meeting cases of distress where the poor-
law would he found ineffective.
Mr. J. O'Coneam, observed that the gentlemen forming
the deputation could not share in the hopeful expects.
tion of the government that the new poor law
would prove adequate to the support of the people,
While the experiment was being made the people
were starving. Even where the new law had come fully
into operation deaths were occurring, and relieving officers
were resigning their situations, as they found themselves
unable to relieve the enormous number of applicants. In
the voluntary action of what capital was in Ireland before
the first attempt was made by the poor law of 1838 to'. give
it compulsory action, there was a deficiency of employment
and means of maintenance for nearly three minims of the
people. Since then Irish capital was diminished, at least in
the present year, by twelve millions, representing the un-
supplied loss of the potato, end by six or seven millions
or upwards, representing the low in pigs, sheep, cattle,
to some extent, and poultry. This low (to say
nothing ef the cost of the machinery of the two
poor-law acts) much more than neutralised any advantages
over the voluntary action and distribution of Irish capital
which were predicted from the stimulating and coercive
effects of compuLery provision for the poor. 'Emigration
had taken a good deal of capital out of Ireland in small
quantities, and the increasing indebteducts of landlords, em-
ployers of all kinds, and traders, swelled the ordinary out-
goings of Ireland to a very liege extent. In fact, between
the deficit of the potato, logs of stock, increase of debts, and
ebstrectiou of capital by emigration, it was no exaggeration
to say that Ireland was, at the very least, 20.00,0001.
poorer this year than she had been since the union.
The measures as yet beard of as intended fur Ireland,
this session, held out little hope. A grand jury bill
must be one of mere regulation of an existing institution,
and in no way creative of capital. A landlord and tenant
bill, if equitable to the tenant as well as the landlord, would
indeed tend to check further emigration of small capitalists,
by the encouragement it would give them to spend their
capital on the land. But why wee it not first on the list ofgo-
vertiment numinous ? If it were so, however, all its possible be-
nefits could go but a small way in checking the exhausting
drains from Ireland. And, under these drains and lotus,
how was it possible that the people could be saved, much
less future prosperity worked out? A parliament in Dublin
WAS the only sure, efficacious, and natural means of
bringing about the great desideratum, the stoppage of
money ~rains from Ireland, and the securing the benefits
of a thorough knowledge of her condition and identity
with her interests in the body having the charge of her
legislature. But something might be done towards those
ends without repeal. The government might share the ex-
penditure of the state more equably between the two eoun-
triss. An occaoinnal session of the Imperial Parliament in
Dublin would be of much use, particularly at the present
time, as real knowledge of Ireland would thereby be acquired,
and Irish business be much forwarded in consequence;
and the very expenditure of the members of parlia-
ment and officers of the government would be of
considerable service. The Irish members were pre-
pared to point out measures of immediate relief in
the employment of labour to utilise the outlay already
expended (and which would otherwise be lost on the making
of roads)—alp to point out the necessity of an extensive
system of food depots. They would also point out some
measures of a snore permanent nature, such as the reclama-
tion of waste llnds, facilitation and enlargement of the Drain
Act, and a tax upon absentees. ,The government might have
something like an argument against repeal if the most bene-
ficial effects did not follow the adoption of such measures;
at all events, whatever was to be done for Ireland should be
something te increase the circulation of money in the coun-
try. The hen. gentleman coacluded by calling upon the
noble lord to adopt • liberal policy towards Ireland, so as
to prevent a recurrence of the late dreadful calamity which ,
had visited that country.
Mr. ilelinear observed that in his own district, that of
Killarney, there were number, of ahle-bodied men who were
willing to work, but that they could not earn a subsistence
for themselves and families. If this was the ease at Kills-
ney, where there were a number of resident gentry, attached
to the locality from the peculiar beauty of its scenery how
much would it not be in places not at favourably eituated?
Mr. Fox aesnred the noble lord that the information
which the government had received with respect to the wore-
' ing of the new poor law was quite incorrect. The soil of
Ireland was at present quite inadequate to the support ef the
people.
' Mr. Reynold!, Mr. MauriccO'Cormell,and other gentlemen
having addressed the noble lord in support of remedial
measures,
' Lord Jonst RIMELL assured the deputation that the go-
vernment was most anxious to legislate in such a spirit for
Ireland. He regretted extremely that it would be necessary
to recommend coercion partially, but her Majesty's govern-
' cent were prepared to accompany that coercion by measures
I, of a remedial character, calculated to ameliorate the condi-
' tion of the people, and restsre security to life and property.
The deputation having thanked the noble lord for tke
courtesy witk which he had received them withdrew.

TILE WESTMINSTER REFORM SOClETY.—least
night a numerous meeting of the members of, the West-
minster Reform Society was held at the York Hotel, Upper
Wellington-street, Strand, "for the purpose of receiving the
report of the committee appointed to superintend the regis-
tration of votes for the city of Westminster, and on other
business ;" Mr. John Thomas Campart, of St. James's, in
the chair,—Mr. 0. E. Deones, honorary solicitor to the so-
ciety, read the report, which was to the effect, that in the
course of the previous year upwards of 1,000 claims to he
rated had been distributed by the secretary, Mr. Haggett,
in the parishes of St. John and St. Margaret, to persons
entitled to be rated and registered as voters, and tbst notices
bad been served on the overseers to that purport; the effect
of which was—the parish officers having taken the opinion
of the Attorney-General, which coincided with the view of
the society, "that it was illegal to rate the landlord as an
occupier "—that 300 claimants were placed on the
rate-book. In 1846 the number of voters on the
list was 12,390 and which did not much vary to
consequence a the last registration. There were 424
objections made by the society, of which 351 were sue-
tamed. There was a gross grin to reformers of 373 voters,
there having been only nine claims allowed to the conser-
vatives. No costa had been paid, while a greater proportion
of objections had been sustained in Westminster than in any
other borough of the United Kingdom. The report was
unanimously adopted.—Mr. Orton read a letter from Mr.
Monett stating that Mr. Nunes had offered to give his
professional assistance gratuitously to the society.—Mr.
Prout moved, and Mr. Knight seconded, that the offer be
accepted, which was resolved, and thanks were voted to Mr.
Demme, who expressed his willingness, on behalf of the
cause of reform, to support the interests of the society.—A
financial committee of five members was then ap-
pointed.—Mr. Cribb observed that he understood they
were to have taken into consideration that even-
ing the question of the repeal of the window duties,
He wished to know if it were intended to introduce the sub-
ject to that meeting.—Mr. Gecein said be was not uneasy
with regard to the question of the repeal of the window
duties. There had been a meeting of delegates from various
parishes of the metropolis, at Marylebone, who were watch-
ing the conduct of the government in reference to that
matter. The question would in a short time come before
another meeting of the delegates, which would be of some
importance, as there were 1G members of parliament assisting
the delegates, and who would be ready to support the ques-
tion of the repeal of these duties in the House of
Commons. They would be happy thus to hear that
the subject was not likely to go off. Mr. Geesin stated
that in the report, published by authority of the go-
vernment, in reference to the revision of the taxes,
this was referred to as one that war to be got rill of
Mr. Hocken remarked that he could not see how the window
duties could be maintained, when the question of sanitary
improvement of towns was before the legislature. There
was a necessity of the revision of taxation, as the working
classes were unable to pay what they did.—Mr. (lemon said
that when the deputation waited upon Lord J. Russell, of
which he was one, Mr. Pattison, M.P., told his lordship
that the City of London was opposed to the window duties,
and that it was an important constituency, of which he be-
lieved the noble lord was aware, His lordship smiled. He
was also informed that a property tax ought to be imposed
on the Marquis of Clanriearde, the Marquis of Waterford,
and other Irish landlord', when he could do without the
window duties.—Other members addressed the meeting to a
similar effect, it being understood that the society shsuld
wait to see what steps the government intended to pursue
upon the subject.