The Express.
London, England, 1853-03-19 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 19, 1853

revision made (or the Protestant clergy of Canada.
These two measures be believed formed the whole stock of
leg ielaVain at present before parliament. The noble lord
the leader of the House of Commons informed the country
of eh intention, not to brill(' in a IMPIORIO, butte to the
tonne be meant to pursue with respect to the great subject
of The reform bill, of which suck great expec-
tations had toes formed by a certain portion of the com-
munity, was not to be brought forward in the present see-
goo. The government also announced their intention
of legislating permanently on the (subject of India.
Thee* were the only measures announced, as far
as he knew, as likely to occupy the 'Mention of par•
'lament in the present session. If any other measures
were intended to be introduced, he thought the govern-
ment ought to announce what they were beton the
adjournment toot place. He was anxious that the same
result should not take place in the present 'anion which
took place last session, namely, to have bills introduced and
huddled up at the close of a session, without giving time
for discussing or considering them, whilst for four months
their lordships were doing nothing. (Hear, hear.) The
subject of India was a most important one, and the people
of this country were beginning to take a greater interest in
India than they had hitherto done. As the government
had determined to legislate on this subject without waiting
for the results of the inquiry which was now taking place,
there was no reason why the government should not bring
their measure with the least possible delay. More than all
other subject., it was important that the question of India
should not be postponed to the end of a Reston. He was
anxious, therefore, to receive an assurance that whatever
measures were to be introduced, would be submitted to
Parliament and to that house in duo time. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of ABERDEEN said that although the ques-
tion of the noble earl was one of a very unusual character,
he could assure him that he need not be apprehensive that
this house would not have its full share of the business
which was likely to occupy the attention of parliament.
The measures of the government would be submitted to
parliament with a view of receiving full consideration, and
due notice would be given of those measures. Having
given that promise, he cadd say no more on the subject at
present. With regard to the large question of education
, he could inform the noble earl that on the first day of the
re-assembling of parliament notice would be given of the
, day when that subject would be brought forward. Whether
the measures were introduced in that or the other house of
parliament, full and ample time would be given for the die-
, cusaion of them.
, The motion was then agreed to, and the house adjourned
s at 8 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FRIDAY, MAzen 18.
The house met at the usual hour.
_ PRIVATE BUSINESS.

THIIO READlNO.—Redrath and Chasewater Rail-
way Bill.
The report of the eommittee on the Salford Extension
sad Improvement Bill was brought up and agreed to.
SECOND READlNoB.—Bayswater, Paddington. and Hol-
born-bridge Railway Bill; Monmouthshire Railway and
Canal Bill.

Bright had just before interrupted the noble lord, complain.
ing that he could net bear what he was saying)—he wished
to express a hopi that in feture, the opportunity would not
be taken by km ffienthen on Fridaye, when the ordinary
mottos Ass sajourning over to the Monday was made, to
interpose- (mations and originate discussions, which, on
some moutons, had occupied the time of the house for
several hours ; and the practical effect of which was to con-
vert Friday into a motion day and deprive the government
of one of the days set apart by the house for government
measures. (Hear.) He would now move that the house
at its rising, doajourn to Monday 4th of April. (Hear.)
Viscount JOCELYN rose to put the question which be
bad given notice he should ask, when the motion for the
adjournment of the house was made, whether any and
what measures have been taken according to the recom-
mendation of the Governor-General of India, in his lord-
ship's minute dated the 27th day of Febritarj, 1851, to ap-
propriate a portion of the revenues of the territory with-
drawn from Ali Moored, Ameer of Upper Scinde, as a pe-
nalty for forgery, to the relief of the Ameers of Scindc
and their families, who were dispossessed of their terri-
tories in 1843 by the orders of the British government.
He would refrain from entering into the general question
of our policy in connexion with the province of Scinde,
but would confine himself to stating one or two facts, with
the view of explaining the object he had view. lie was
the more induced to take this course inasmuch as
he had last year called the attention of the house to
our policy in reference to that province and the condi-
tion of its unfortunate rulers. The house would bo aware
that in 1843, after a series of brilliant exploits performed
by our army in Scinde, the Indian government annexed a
large portion of that territory to British India, and that
that portion which was not annexed was made over to
Ali Moored. Shortly afterwards a rumour became rife
that Ali Moored had obtained the territory by fraud.
A commission was appointed, he was deprived of the ter-
ritory, and it appeared only becoming that this country
should use it to afford relict to the Annus of.Scinde. The
noble lord then quoted iu support of his views extracts
from opinions expressed by the resident at Scinde, and by
the Governor General of India, and reminded hon. gentle-
men on the treasury bench that last year they concurred in
his feelings on the subject when they sat with hint on that
(the opposition) side of the house.
Sir C. WOOD hoped the noble lord would not consider it
disrespectful if he declined to interrupt the business of the
evening by entering into a general discussion. With re-
gard to the question, it appeared that the commis-
sioner of Scinde bad been directed to inquire
into the circumstance affecting the whose of the persons
concerned; and that in the mean time an allowance
had been made for their subsistence. The report which the
commissioner made to the Governor of Bombay, in the
first instance, embraced only the case of a portion of the
Ameers, and he had been directed to make an inquiry with
regard to the remainder.
Mr. DISRAELI said he should postpone his motion with
regard to the establishing gold as a legal tender in our
Indian territories, until after the holidays.
Mr. HUME doubted whether the noble lord would save
time by the course which he now proposed and thought the
house should not be asked to give up Thursday, before
there was a pressure.
The motion was then agreed to.
Lord J. RUSSELL then moved, "That after Easter
orders of the day have precedence of notices of motions on
Thursdays."
Mr. DISRAELI said it was always his inclination to faci-
litate as much as possible the conduct of public business,
knowing how much a minister depended upon the cordial
indulgence of independent members. But while he was un-
willing to oppose any proposition for placing more time at
the disposal of the government, he felt that there must be a
limit to such indulgence. They must remember that in
dealing with a proposition like that before the house, they
were dealing not with a mere question of personal con-
venience, but with one which involved the privileges of
their oonrituents. (Hear, hear.) Those gentlemeu who
were not in office, constituting, of course, the vast majority
of that house, had a certain period allotted to them for
bringing forward subjects in which the public and their
immediate constituents were interested; and it be-
came them to pause before assenting to a proposition
which trenched so much on their privilege. He would
recall to the house the circumstances under which this nro-
! position was made. The holidays took place this year at an
unusually early period, and the government were so little
oppressed with the weight of business, that they had indul-
I gently proposed an extraordinary period of relaxation.
Under these circumstances the house was called upon early
in the month of April, to relinquish • moiety of the time,
during which alone they had opportunities of asserting those
! principles, of vindicating those rights, end of guarding
those interests which had been entrusted to them by
their constituents. What was the ~arse which had been
panned within a recent period ? On the 2nd of April, 1849,
the noble lord, then also the leader of the house, proposed
that on Thursday, the 19th of April, and on every alter-
nate Thursday, orders should have precedence of motions.
The hon. member for Montrose objected even to that limited
indulgence, and proposed that the arrangement should not
commence till the 31st of May. A distinguished member
of that house, a bold vindicator of the rights and privileges
of the people, now Secretary to the Admiralty, said he re-
garded the motion as an assault on independent members.
(Laughter.) On that occasion he (Mr. Disraeli) supported
the noble lord. On the 13th of June, 1851, the last year of
his government, the noble lord proposed that after the let
of July orders should have precedence of motions, and the
arrangement was objected to by Lim, though he did not
divide, on the ground that the precedent was dangerous. His
admonition was now justified, for they were now, on the
4th of April, asked to relinquish half the time which they
could command as independent members. (Hear.) Let the
house consider how great was the difference between the
state of business in 1851, and its state at present. In 1851
there were 54 bills, which were orders of the day, in pro-
gress on the Ist of July ; at the present time there were
only 25, and many of them were bills of private members.
(Hear, hear.) On that occasion, one of the most ardent
supporters of the present government, the hon. member for
Lambeth (Mr. W. Williams). objected to the proposition,
on the ground that the house was asked to surrender its
business into the hands of the government; he hoped that
hon. member would consider well before he gave his vete
that evening. For kis own part, feeling that he was in
some measure a trustee for independent members, if the
noble lord persisted in his motion he must give it an un-
qualified opposition.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said his opinion with regard to this
motion was precisely the same as that which he expressed
on the occasion just referred to, and he believed that the
government, instead of gaining, would lose time by its adop-
tion. There were at that time 17 names down to ballot for
notices of motion. He had himself a notice of the greatest
importance respecting the economical management of the
revenues of the country, and if the noble lord should take
the second day allotted to members so early in the session,
he knew not what chance he would have when competing
with 17 members. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said, he thought it his duty to lay
before the house what he conceived must be their position if
they did not accede to the motion. The right hon. gentle.
man (Mr. Disraeli) had referred to the practice of the house,
as if that practice had been entirely satisfactory, and ought
be be maintained. Now, the practice had been that three
days had been given to independent members, and two to
the government. It had become more and more common
for private members to call upon the government to under-
take to introduce questions of great public importance ; and
if that request was to be seceded to, sufficient time
must be allowed. Had the conduct of affairs

under different governments been so satisfactory,
that the house thought no change should take place?
He must remind the house of what had happened ever since
the time of the Reform Bill. Lord Althorp, Bir Robert
Peel, and himself, had all been obliged to say in July or
August, when it was quite evident that the attention of the
house was wearied, and that the House of Lords was not
prepared to enter into the consideration of new subjects of
vast importance and difficulty, they had all been obliged to
say, "Here are bills. Nos. 1,2, 3, down to 9, 10, and 12,
which we are obliged to relinquish till another session."
Was that convenient or satisfactory (Hear, hear.) Very
often they were bills of which everybody acknowledged the
importance, in the principle of which everybody
concurred, and upon which a great deal of time
had been spent; but as it was impossible that
the details could be sufficiently considered, they were aban-
doned. Well, he now asked the house to improve the pre-
tics ; and, if the house should refuse to do so, let them not
be surprised if, when the government were asked to under.
take to deai with various subjects, they said it was impossi-
ble for them to do so for want of time. He was convinced
that governments had hitherto erred in their expectation of
the number of measures which they would be able to carry,
and he should endeavour more strictly in the present session
than it had been done hitherto to suit the number of mea-
sates to the time in which they could he carried. If the
time were longer, of course there would be a greater num-
ber of measures; if it were shorter, of course there would
be many subjects which the government would be compelled
to renounce. He must observe that various subjects would be
brought forward after Easter, which would occupy a con.
siderable time. The financial measures to be introduced by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the principle of the
income tax, would occasion considerable debate; while
another important subject, which would lead to discussion,
sod which he should introduce on the first opportunity
after Easter, was the subject of education. The measure(
relating to the registration of land introduced in the House
of Lords might also he expected to occupy a considerable
time. Although, therefore, he should not complain if the(
house refused its assent to the motion, be must say that in
that case the government must postpone many important
measures till another session.

Mr. T. DUN 3OMBE said there was great plausibility in
the argument of the right hon. gentleman opposite, but
practically he did not think the system had hitherto worked
so well as he supposed. hon. members referred to the
records of 1851 they would find that on Tuesdays and
Thursdays there was frequently no house, .„'n consequence
of those nights beicg left to independent members; and as
to th.! morning meetings towards the close of the session,
the result was, that when the hon. member for Lambeth
came down in the evening to set the revenue right, he was
counted out at 5 o'clock.
Lord R. LIROSVENOR agreed with the bon. member
for Firm 'IT, but w,,uld suggest to the noble lord a mo.iffi-
"tin!, of his propositioit : it was, that as there were too
Tuesdays and two Thursdays then open, hon. members who
had got their names down should be allowed to ballot for
those days, and !bat the government should thus far post-
' pone their claim to exclipive possession. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WALI'OLE said he could not help thinking that
many hon. nt, tubers who now supported the noble lord
would have token a different elerse had they been sitting
on that (the Opposition) side of the house. (Opposition
cheers.) It we. the di.euotion of questions introduced by
independent members which led the government to take
them up, and if this proposition was carried that advantage

woutil be late • He wild mot help remarking that in addi-
tion to the measures roentiosed by the noble lord, there
was the whole Indies question and the question of the
alteration of the transportation system, and of secondary
'punishments. He thought the government should be con.
tented with the alternate Thursdays in the first instance,
and see how that worked until May. That was as much as
ought to be conceded at that moment. It would, in his
°pima, facilitate the progress of business, if the govern
merit would, in the first instance, press forward measures
which did not create public excitement, and send them as
early as Feesible to the Lads.
Viscount PALMERSTON thought the remarks of the
right hon. gentleman rather confirmed the propriety of the
motion of his noble friend, because he had mentioned addi-
tional subjects of importance which without its adoption
could not be disposed of within the period to which the
session ought to be limited. Ilia noble friend would per-
haps agree to ;the postponement of the arrangement until
the 18th of April, in order to afford a chance for the names
which were down for the ballot ; but he really thought that
with a view to the business of the country, and to the
enabling the government to carry through measures in both
houses, • xperience showed the neceasit) of Fleeing at the
command of the government a greater amount of time than
they possessed under existing arrangements.
Sir J. PAK INGTON could not but regard the motion of
the noble lord as premature. It was entirely opposed to
the rights of private members, and to precedent. He
thought it very desirable, however, to put an end to the
practice which had obtained of late years of raising debates
on the question of the adjournment of the house from
Friday to Monday. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. FLUME said the right hon. gentleman opposite had
made a proposition more favourable than that to which
they ought to agree. He thought the government ought
to bring forward their measures, and then submit to the
pleasure of the house. They were giving up to the govern-
meut, by degrees, all the opportunities which independent
members had of brining forward their measures.
Lard J. RUSSELL said he would alter his motion so that
it should take elfeet from the 18th of April, instead of
the 4th.

Mr. DEEDES said he understood the course proposed by
his right bun. friend (SirJ.Pukington) had nut been acceded
to by the noble lord. fie thought sufficient grounds had nit
been shows for basing recourse to this measure so early ;
and he would therefore move, as ■n amendment, that
orders of the day have precedeace front and after the 2nd of
May.
Mr. F. FRENCH said it was not worth while to make a
question of ten days. He would rather support the motion
of the noble lord than the amendment of the hon. gentle-
man.

Mr. DEEDES then withdrew hi amendment.
The home then divided :
Fur the motion
Against it 139-32
NOTICES OF MOTIONS.
BOROUGH OF HULL.

An HON. MEMBER wire notice t►at on Tuesday, the
6th of April, he should wort) an address for a cominisaion
to inquire into alleged corrupt practices in the borough of
Hull.
NORWICH ELECTION PETITIO24.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE gave notice that on the sth of
April he should call the attention of the house to the report
of the select committee on the withdrawal of the Norwich
election committee, and should move that the resolution of
the house discharging the order for referring the said
petition to the committee of selection be discharged.