The Express.
London, England, 1849-05-10 00:00:00

ADVERTISING VAN!.

Lord D. STUART inquired whether the government in-
tended to take any measures to suppress the uniance of
enormous advertising vans traversing the streets of the me-
tropolis ?
Sir G. GREY said that, in the evert of any bill being in-
troduced tor altering the Metropolitan Police Act, that point
would be entitled to consideration.

EMPLOYMENT OP LABOUR (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. P. BCROPE moved the second reading of this bill. It
was admitted, on all hands, that one of the leading causes of the
present destitution in Ireland was the want of employment.
Ireland presented the amplest field for the profitable employ-
mint of all our labouring population, sot only in the puma
neat improvement of the land, but even in the cultivation of
the seal. He confined himself solely to recom-
mending to the hones the principle of the bill.
He proposed, for the purpose, that a census
should be taken of the population ; that the number
should be allotted amongst the owners of tewnlands ; that
they should prove they gave employment to the number al-
1 lotted to them, and, on that proof, should be exempt from
the able-bodied poor rate. This principle went directly to
the point of encouregieg the employment of labour, be-
cause it gave a direct premium to those who employed la-
bour. When hon. members recollected the accounts of the
clearances in Ireland, they would see that any change in
the law would be a most valuable improvement. I
It we. the only mesas of giving protection to
the improving landlord er tenant on the estate.
It might seem presumption in an English member to propose
• measure for the Irish, but he could say that he had been
supported by the concurrence of opinion of some of the mast
practical men in Ireland. Mr. lames Martin, of Galway,
said that if this principle were carried out it would set every
labourer in Galway at work ; Mr. Martin was asked, " what
would you say if you were allowed to work out your poor-
rate in labour ? Hs answered, "we are paying Ba. in the
pound on the poor rate, and I would willingly work it
out in labour and thankfully accept the change."
He proposed that the measure should be tem•
poem in its operation, vin., limited to two years. There
was a period paralysis of industry In Ireland, and one of the
main cause of that was that the employers of labour were
prevented from expending capital in improvement and
employment by the excessive taxation they were subjected
to for the neighbouring paupers. He maintained that all
remedies of another character would be ineffectual, without
the adoption of some principle of this kind. Although the
Ineumbered Estates Bill might throw into the market large
property in Inland, would it find purchasers ? He trusted
that the house would not give the bill • contemptuous rejec-
tion, but would allow it to be reed a second time.

On the question that the bill be rend a second time being
put, the 6PIAIII declared that the ayes had it, amidst
much laughter, Sir W. Somerville, who was shout U oppose
the second nailing, having omitted to do so at the proper
tints.

Mr. P. SCROPE than staved that the bM be email
on Friday next

Sir W. SOMERVILLE Meant that what had just
occurred neat prove to his boa. Shad that he bad not ben
very =noes to epees' any asesous whisk his hea. hiked
thought it Ms easy to iistreiese, sad le mid aims
his that bh meows should set Moshe hem him map as.
=8464°5.. He
SSagri "gaitiabir Vres ilea=ll-
- debt gralisais to the his. member for the to he
had takeals the Weirs of that , sad is that whisk
"Sseted the poem dame" of the lal utl of Ireland. If
hh lia. Mead Ist mesa to refer this maw to the es
sales ea Isle moist's. he (Sir W. Sementis) 'hewn
hews boo reedy to bays gives bk best immulleistima to the
..hest, but es be bettheoglit at to bandage WI, of bed I
moved the eppelalesoakt essosittes, Wee folly awasis Of
therohlhadalloßMlONSltkelifello Slam which Wiliam.
frisadmell to Apt. hs send Mlle wanes "ease
this Sae demi. So appisiman Of a semallies. Hi
ha. Sisal essosessi by Jades MIS a hive Isli v

, -
11 %stits
Avaaplo7 trelitid,
*OW employ-
jag that labour in *a mredlegen of wealth.
He imbed upon the propcsleige Oat latei: bleed as iserten.
doper are from the greakgghisjple of keeping labour 'ad
relief totally dhtinet is die llerf with OM potu.,_lbe need
hardly urge on gentleman ~moiled with England the feet
that the miming up of the two things led directly to the de-
moralisation of the labour fag population. (Hear, hear.)
Having them views he felt bound to move m an amendment
that the bill be tommifted that day sii months._

Mr. P. BCROPE offend, if the bill were allowed to be
committed, to assent to refer it to the select committee on
Irish poor laws.
Mr. F. FRENCH did not concur in the objections which
bad been raised by the right hon. baronet the Secretary for
Ireland agaidst the pelndpte of the bill. It was true, that thu
principle bad lolled In Ragland, bat the circumstances of
Ireland were wholly different. The opinions of all practical
men is Ireland were in favour of hislon. friend's proposi-
tion. end it was rurally believed that in the present circus-
steams of the muntry it would work well.

Mr. !MANNY warned the house against hastily adopting
a principle for Inland which had worked so mieobievously
in twenty ftvs of the southern counties of England. (Hear,
hear.) Roomer, If the bill was to be merely tempo-
rary in its action, the present circumstances of Ireland
might justify it as en exceptional piss of legislation.
Mr. R. M. FOX supported the bill, being of opinion that
all reasonable objections might be removed in committee.
One feature of it of which he approved was, that it would
exempt from poor rates three who exerted themselves in the
employment of the people.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD did not fear any demoralising re-
sults from the bill. What could be more demoralioit than
w the ant system of out-door relief in Ireland ? Hear,
bear.) Remembering that this bill had nothing in it of a
e
character, sad that everything objectionable
might
be
removed in committee, he felt bound to support
the emend reading.
Kr. J. E. DENISON supported the bill. They bad
evidence that while numbers of the able bodied poor were
unemployed sad destitute, large tracts of land were remain-
tag uncultivated for the want of the seed to put Into It. If
assistance wen at once given to enable the people to raise
grain crops on those lands, it was possible that the progress of
the famine might be stayed ; but unless such assistance was
immediate. there would be but little chance—seeing that we
had now reached the month of May—of these lands being
turned to any good account during the present year. He
wished to know fromthe government whether they contem-
plated any s for bringing these lands into cultivation,
and thus food for the people. It might be said
the pie new proposed had been tried in Ragland and
failed ; bet the circumstances which now prevailed in Ire-
land had never sedated la Ragland, and there was, therefore,
no analogy.

Sir G. GREY objected that the principle of the bill was to
reduce all labour to the standard of pauper labour, and to re•
duos wages to a minimum. (Hear, bear.) The hon. gentle-
man who last spoke said that circumstances such as now pre-
vailed in Ireland had never suited in England, and, there-
fore, the failure of the principle in thiecountry wee no reason
against its introduction in Ireland. It was tree that the
circumstances were not the same ; but they were not,
thereforet to throw over all the results of exponents.
The principle Ms tried in England, and failed.
It was proved to be • vieldns principle, and one that defeated
the objects which were proposed to be effected by it. His
bon. friend had leaked him to state whether gowea
contemplated any measures beyoad those whisk they bad
announced for remedying the evils in Ireland, eameemumt
upon a large portion of the land remaining uncultivated.
His answer was, that they (the government) bad no plan by
which, through the direct interference of the government or
the legislature, the cultivation of such lands would be en-
sured. He believed that the remedy was to be found, net
in government or parliamentary interference, but in the in-
dividual exertions of private persons and is the application
of private capital. Believing that the bill would not effect
the object his hon. friend had in view—considering that
' they should be careful how they admitted, even for • tem-
porary purpose, a principle which was vicious in Itself, and
which he thought destructive of honest industry, and pre-
judicial alike to the labourer and the employer—he shoed
vote against it. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. A. STAFFORD was sorry to say that the accounts
he had remind from Ireland were not so cheering as those
to which the right hon. baronet had Minded, and he
feared it would be found that if the ray of hope bad lighted
up in one pert of that country, other parts of it were in a
state of nit' more gloomy darkneu and despair then
before. The honourable member for Stroud new pro-
Ctdto make the working of the poor law auzi-
y to the giving of employment—why that was the
very principle for which thou who were bestacqusinted with
the Irish character had so long contended in vain. (Hear,
hear.) But while be rejoiced at the recognition of the prin-
ciple, he saw little chance of the bill in its present', shape
being effectually carried out, and he feared further that the
objections he entertained to the details of the bill were such
as could not be removed in committee. Unless the bill
provided not only that the labourers should be employed,
but that they should be employed at certain wages, it
would leave the whole question as open as it was now. The
hon. member concluded by intimating his intention to op-
pose the bill.
Col. DUNNE admiVed that the principle of giving relief
by • labour rate was bad, and had faded in England . but
this was not a bill for establishirg a labour rate—but to di-
vide the poor rate into two parts, one for the relief of the
destitute who were able-bodied, and the other for the relief
of the destitute who were not able-bodied. Approving of the
principle of the bill, he should support the motion, though
he din not agree with many of the detail'.
Lord BERNAILD opposed the bill. He reminded the
house that the halyards in several of the smell towns in Ire-
land were now, from a variety of nuns, at a stand, and that
if the present measure were passed the proprietors of these
yards would be compelled to employ men whether they
wanted them or not. He believed the bill to be utterly im-
practicable and, if practicable, bed in principle. The most
importantlrish question which could entire the considers.
tion of the legislature was the one so repeatedly urged by
the hon. member for Northamptonshire (Mr. Stafford), and
to which her Majesty's ministers had evinced so great a dis-
like—he meant the diminished area of taxation • and until
that was satiefac•orily settled, it was almost hopeless to im-
prove the social condition of the country.
Mr. REYNOLDS said that being of opinion the misery
of Ireland was traceable to the want of employment for the
able-bodied population, and that the bill of the hon. member
for Stroud would supply that want, he was prepared to vote
for the principle of the measure then before the house. He
believed the limitation of the area of taxation was a worse
proposal than the one now suggested, although he had no
fault to find with the hoc. memoir for Northampterudin
foe bringing forward his plan no repeatedly, there being
" nothing Ithe leather." (A laugh.)) Some hon. members
appeared- exceedingly anxious to afford out-door relief, but
the house should bear in mind that out-door relief was sup-
plied at present. He had lately heard the right hon. gentleman
the Chancelke of the Exchequer reading • letter from Mr.
Burke, (no of the poor-law commissioners, declaratory of
the diminution of distress in Ireland. At the
meeting of the Tralee board of guardians on
Tuesday last, Mr. John Twigs, of Haranont, re-
laced the following cirettaostansui—A farmer named
Keane list • mue by fever. In two hems after the
skin was taken off, and the entrails and head were seized
upon by some squalid wretches and devoured. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Twigs also mated, that • man who was carrying home a
coffin for his dead brother had dropped down upon the road
and (lied upon the spot—a victim of out door relief, end that
upon the following day the two brothers were interred Lathe
same grave. (Hear.)
The SPEAK BR observed that the hon. magma could
not refer to their evidence, as the committee had not yet
reported.
Mr. REYNOLDS proceeded to say that the people in the
Clifelen union were treated in a worse manner than the
hound in the kennel. In a district in the county of Gal-
way, in which Mr. Eastwood, an English and an honourable
adventurer, resided, an auxiliary workhouse had recently
been erected. The shape of it was square. The elevation
of the roof was about eight feet, and 200 persons, almost in'
a state of nakedness, were crushed into it. The amount
from the town of Benin/sloe, which up to the period of the
Galas was the most thriving place in the county of Galway,
was truly heartrending. There, the workhouse contained
double the number of human beings it was ireended to cc-'
commode*, and 12 additional workhouses had been erected.
Upwards of 100 persons died weekly, and the inmates in the
workhouse exceeded the population of the town. And yet'
it was at such a time as this that the iron-hearted political
economista of the Boglish school were proposing to withdraw
the annual parliamentary grants from the houitals of Dub-
lin, which grants were voted long prior to the Act of Union !
He should support the principle of the bill, and leave the
details to be settled in committee. (Hear.)
Sir A. BROOKE opposed the bill, but said he might be
induced to grin it his support hereafter, if the hon. member
for Stroud would go over to Ireland and spend his money in
practically endeavouring to carry its principle as well as its
details into operation. (" Hear,' and a laugh.)
Mr. O'FLABERTY expressed hie concurrence in the
statement of the hon. member for Dublio respective_g the de-
Oorable state of egrieultural distress in Ireland, and gave the
bill his support as calculated to diminish it.
Sir H. W. BARRON said that although the object of the
bill was a most legitimate one for legislation,—that of giving
ea
lot:entire to labour —shill he feared that the details of the
measure were not likely to effect that object. He therefore
hlthimself in this embarrassing position, that while he wished,
to vote for the principle of the bill, he thought it would be
adversely difficult to render its details practical and
Operative. The hon. baronet proceeded to show that the mu'
.to t-e remedied was the extent of the electoral divisions inl
Ireland under the poor law. That was the crying injustice'
of the country. If they narrowed those dimensions, they
would cheek the wholesale evictions which so often took
pima boom then the expense instead of being spread
sear ahoy area, by which the evicting landlord escaped the
share fait to which he ought to be subjected, would be
thrown Is a great degree on such landlords. This would in-
duce them to find employment for the labourers on their
estates, instead of throwing them upon the union.
Mr. LAWLESS fully concurred in the statements of dis-
tress and slimy, and supported the bill u a remedy. (Cries
of " Divide.")
Mr. P. SCROPE said that hie object was to have the bill
sent before the Poor-law committee upstairs. He under-
stood his right hon. friend the Secretary for Ireland to say
he would have preferred that course, and when he (Mr.
Swope) assented to it, his right hon. friend declined. The
priadple of the bill bad been approved by nearly all the
Irish Members, excepting one or two, who had some fa
yourite_plemol their owa for narrowing the area of taxa-
tion. 80, therefor*, hoped the house wadi not roiled It

Sir W. SOHERVILLE said that his hon. friend did not
rightly represent what he had stid. He said that if his boo.
friend had simply invited him to consider the bill updairs,
he would have done so, but as he had thought St to }much
It in that house, he (Sir W. Somerville) felt himself com-
pelled to deal with it in that house. His hon. friend had
two objects in view—one, to make a speech, the other, to
Inv' the bill sent to the committee; but he could not obtain
both.
The house then divided 7.

---
----
—Forti;FiiUl
Against it
COUNTY RATES AND EXPENDUURE BILL.

Mr. HEYWOOD having moved the meted reading of this
bill,
Si/ J. PAXINOTON, Mr. V. SMITH, and Bir G. GRIT
severdly expressed their opinion that it was then too late
for the hoe. member to expect the holies to comae to a deci-
sion on the measure, erbieh was so important as to create
considerable discussion, and after some general encourage-
ment to proceed, by cries of " Go on," followed by ales of
" Withdraw." the hon. gentleman postponed the second
reading till Wednemlay next.