The Express.
London, England, 1851-07-12 00:00:00

their lordships' house. In conclusion, he trusted that Mr. I Nothing could be done iu convocation contrary to the pre-
Paston, without his application being' complied with. l rogative of the crown or against the common lew of thu
would still add to the hellcats he had conferred on his count- ! land. Ile would now ask the attentena of the house to some
try and to his own honour. ' of those evils which arose from the want of a convocation.
Earl GRANVILLE said that slate he had come into the
! Without it, it seemed nt one time as if all the energies of
house a petition from the inhabitant* of Ashford had been .the church were paralysed and that it WAS impossible to
put into his hands for the purpose of being presented toe keep up united nether. After this net,: of up nthy had
their lordships praying that the Crystal Palace Mght bo I existed for a certain time, the feeling in the mials of men
preserved. The petition, he might state., was most rei"es I could sot be other than a centre:tiet that it was necessary to
ably signed. As had already been lasted, the commis- remove it. And then meremeuts in the church took place.
I The first of those 'movements was called the evangelical
sinners had made no declaration on this subject. In fact,
" movement. What was the effect of the movement? It
they were bound to deliver that portion of Hyde-park in
cored beneficial to the church. Take the case of John
the same state as they hail found ft soon after the Ezhibi-
esley. He knew of no man who had morn affection in
'Bon was closed. The subject of retaining the building had
never been discussed at any meeting of the commiesioners his heart for the church th in John Wesley—(hear, hear)—
and if there had been any opening fur him to propound his
and he was only aware of the sentiments; of three or fouroi
views, so far from bane against the church, he would have
: the commiesioners on the subject ; anal these three or four
were not unanimous in their sentiment.. urn he been Lis
the church, and the effect of his keying carried
his own feelings into the body winch he ultimately founded
called upon un
to gin
a vote on the question he should car-
would, instead of separation, have been union, and that
tainly have felt by :mid to weigh the arguments on both
activity which he brought to bear upon the religious feeling
aides
have considered the advantages and disadvantages
of the country would have been eminently benetieiel in-
of retaining the building. With regard to the advanteg
stead ofceahugwhact
consequences. uinenaces. great degreeool o
nee schismoriir
to and
he thought that they would be considerable to a large pro-
portion of the inhabtants of the metropolis. As regarded the led to unfortunate I Cc ti
own times, there had been another great movement,
disadventages, he slida not lay much steels on the general
which appe.ared to hhu to show the want of a
arguments of. his noble and learned friend (Lord Campbell).
convocation.. That ntoveauent was one in which those
lie thought, on the contrary, that the strongest point
who took strong church views were the first to take steps,
against retaining the building, was one on which his lord-
aud he believed that front the first action that movement
ship had touched but lightly, namely, the feelings of the
wet a perfectly sincere one as regarded &dee to promote
gentlemen who occupies' the houses in the immediate neigh-
the welfare of the church. (Hear.) But when people of
bourhood of the Crystal Palace. As to the adaptation of
stroug feelings and entliusitstic turn of mind took up err-
the buildiug for permanency, he dint not wish to give an
crews they certainly did require guidance. How much
oinion. With respect to the market of the police, he con- t.tin ,
the miva looked for such guidance might be seed if they
current ill all that had fallen from the noble and learned lord.
turned to the very lowest of churchmen anti the must ex-
With regard to Mr. Paxton, it was very satisfactory to
trestle of dissenters, for he believed that tine men who made
hear fro.n both sides of the !muse, his praises spoken in the
manner which had been done. There was one point in the loudest boast of the right of private judgment were
those who relied the molt upon the guidance of another
which, however ho was nut prepared to give him all the
moan's mind, and pieced their faith the roost firmly upon
credit which hu'd been accorded to him by the risible and
his words. It was natural fur persons to look up to that
learned lord (Lord Campbell), and that was with regard to
his poetical talent. Ile thought that the neble and learned which they respected, and every sincere man was ready to
accept guidance of that kind. Therefore he held that if
lora had proved himself, in this respect, infinitely superior
to Mr. Paxton. (Laughter.) there had hem church guidance elating at the moment
Lord BROUGHAM did not think that the noble and when that movement took place, when. they were, trembling
learned lord (Lord Campbell) had at all answered his state-
ment, which was simply an array of the facts on both
sides of the question. He was sorry that the noble and on the verge of those danger% into which they had now
fatten, they would have avualest those danger.. All them
concerned in the movement sincerely wished for direction,
but they could not obtain it, and when they asked their
learned lord had not dealt with his usual fairness with the
when he had attacked it in a pecuniary point of bishops very few °bunted satisfactory answer's. The con-
matter,s ueuce of this want of directing power was tied they went
view. la connexion with this they ought to remember that
there would be a large surplus tin
the
hands of the commis- sequence
in their course up to the ashcan when they
sinners. Then with respect to the healthful recreation seceded. They wanted the element of idler, and that was
the cause of mill that had taken place; mail it was frown tho
afforded by a winter garden, the noble and learned lord had
said that thane people could not come iu bad weather. In want of son tithing certain and defined that the church had
very wet weather they certainly could not come. But in been thrown into the present state of uncertainty. A great
many who had taken that course of secession had commented
passing romthat,g
ordinary winter weather they might be there to enjoy time
pleasures of the garden. It was objected, too, that the mild with extreme lowness, and, • f had one to
extreme height. Had there beeu a convocation there would
have lieell the means for decisions, but, wanting that, they
salutary climate would expose people the more to the effects
of the biting east wind when they rune' out.
to
oweiant towns,. tue andßible;
man—there
it. Nothing was More easy than
They did not contemplate a very werm climate,
but a temperate climate. Then it was said that
formyhis own opinion. 'the Bible, it was true, was our solo
the wealthy who came in their Carriages would leave their
carriages and horses outside, and their servants exposed to reference—but then there were interpretations, unit there
the cold. It had never, however, struck the noble and were errors in some interpretations and what guide haul
this man among them. The principle of the church of Eng-
learned lord that whatever the noble judges of the lout
might do, it was not customary for people to leave their
• land was clear as- entirely rejecting tine principle of develop
on witicat the church of Rome was built, and on which
servants and carriages outside. They sent them home, and
some protestant churches relied,
they came for them at the time appointed for leaving. Ile
(Lord Broughein) acknowlenlged he had been one of those 1:;',...iv .
ch 1 the claims of the Pope as hint to whom the king-
who at first did net think it a safe experiment to congre- mof Heavens was revealed; it !ejected tine tentaboif the
gate hundred.' of thousends of people into that locality, Roman catholic church, and took its stand on the II t.,
church.re
but now, though he entirely agreed in the commentletime lying upon the Bible from the earliest times of the
.
paseed on the admirable arrangements of the police, lie But it wee didcaked where were their au thoritics,
ant what those authorities say. The answer
thought it had inecu mainly owing to the adinireble ale-
was that their authority hail not met fur a hundred
mcanour of the people themselves that all theee iipprehen-
and thirty years, and then the seeker went to the church of
sinus had proved entirely without foundetion. As to Mr.
Rome, simply bemusee it appeared to hint to contain the
Paxton, he looked on ham to be a great public benefactor,
thing he wanted, and there they said to lion you my rely
and he hop ea an I trusted that he would not add era to the
upon it we have our authority. That was whet was going
number of those who, before they Meted of death, tasted of
• on at the present moment, mid he believed nothing could
public ingratitude. (Cheers.) native us from the consequences but allowing the church to
CONVOCATION. speak. But it was saint suppose waives:adieu met met came
Lord REDESDALE, after presenting a number of penis to no agreement. lie would only ask thew who used that
Wets praying foe the revival of convocation, said it was with argument where is your faith? 'I hey esisl that their church
great slitfideuce that he ruse to address their lordships on was the church of God and the pure system of Christianity,
the subject of the motion of which he had given notice. On and if they thought tied why did they doue t ? When it
thin subject it wee found that great reluctance prevailed on was seen that both parties could meet to advantaise why
the part of persons to come forward, but it was a subject should they doubt the power of their own church? lie
which, in the present state of the church, it was absolutely believed sauna firmly in the high mission of the church of
necessary should be raked. In bringiug the matter forward England; he held that at the time of the Reformatiost it
lie did not desire to do anything to pledge their lordship, to was favoured by lieaven in being nallowent to continue tho
any particular sentiments; his object ut present was priuci- unbroken succession of those apostolic powemi which had
pally to disabuse the public mind of erroneous impression, been handed down from the commencement of Christi-
entertained regarding the synodical action of the church. unity. That had been given to our cinunh, and since the
By many it had been held that it was impracticable to carry Reformation this country had been blessed in the most (m-
-eet arnelical &than and for a period of four generations at traordiaery way in being perlllitted to extend her church
least—for e period of about 130 years—no convocation had over every quarter of the globe, nut only over the vast con-
met for the transaction of church business. The people had tinent of America, but in India, in the islands of New %ea-
been living under the impression that such a thing was land, and in Australia. lie saw this, but he hoped that
nut to be thonelit of. But the monument contention the constitution of our church would be MOM
of tho church, and the position in which !nasty qua-- fully developed, and he holed that before long the
dons conueetal with it stood, had raised in meaty people's number of bishops of our church, both at bonnie and abroad,
minds the convictiou that matters cola I not remain long as might be largely increased. When he saw that the English
they were. They were in a position so unaitistectory and church was the church which, dhow all others, budded
dangerous in many points, that unless something were done itself upon the embed faith and menu the Bible, he could
o to bring matters to a more settled state, the church could nut but think that it was through that church the east and
not be safe, and great danger was to be apprehended to the west would be ultimately drawn together, and that the
the constitution both in church and state. The church hail unity of Christ's church would be brought about. That
appeared to be governed, and Was in fact governed at that was the feeling of one who earnestly deeired the welfare of
moment by extreme parties; and this must Ire so Wherever the church ; but, it' it were so, why not give it taat action
there was no regular representatien of nny body. They e hick was latteessary to enable it to proceed tin metering he-
saw that during the time when parliament was not sitting, yeast the mere assertion of principle? lie believed that the
agitators came forward to roues: the public mind with the recent movement of Roue had led men who had not been
impression that they Were persons of more importance than used to take part in such questions to desire the Illeat
when narliament was sitting. So was it with the church. ardent and united action ins the church. If increased action
Without convocation, moderate men had not the opeurtu- was not given to the church, she could not have fair and
nay of action, and the government seemed left to the vie- full play in her contest with the Miner churches of the
lent of both pieties. The plattbrm was wholly in the world. (lkar, hear.) The noble lord concluded by mov-
hands of men of extreme opinions. (Rear, hear.) And ing for ° A copy of a petition front clergy and laity of the
au impression was created that they were really province of Canterbury, preeentiel to both Rouses of Con-
the representatives of the feelings of the church vocation on the eth of February, Ittil."
of England, and that the, divisions were as 'the question having been put,
wide as the yat present seemed. Ile believed the The Arciabiehop of CAN I'ERBURY then roes, and said :
reverse to be the case. lie believed that if they could ola No one who is acquainted with the character of thenoblo
taint an expression of the opinions of the clergy and Lacy at lord, and knows his atteeloneut to the thumh of which. he
large, they would find far more ananimity of opinion, of is a distiuguished inenther, Call doubt the purpose with
purpose, of faith, and belief, than a great many believed to which he has brought before your loraships the eubject on
exist amongst the mejority of the church; very little ems:us which we are now *engaged, or that he has intneluced it
tial difference of opininn would be found to prevail if they with the strongest sense of its import:me to the interests
could be brought together in a place where they lead the aad welfere of the church. (War.) Ile is eincenly of opinion
right to speak and the power of action. if this then were that the divisions which unhappily exist in the church earl
the case, was it not desirable to ulford facility to the express only Inc closed through the usseney of convocation. Ile is not
shun of opinion ? If so, they must recollect that it mutt singular in that opinion. Manny petitious here been addressed
not be dune except by the reseed of eanvoeatioo. In the to me during the lust year, luaringsignatures well deserving
first place, he would consider the objections which had heen of attention, urging me to use whatever influence my station
named to convocation. He would ask scat there roythine gave me to promote the aseembliug of convocation. I was
in it that could be supposed to be andrary to the constitu- obliged to answer the memorielists, that, judging from the
tion of the country or to the habits of the people ? Essen- only grounds of judgment open to me—the experience of
tially the reverse. Convocation was not oily legally but former convocations—l could nut agree with their opinion:
essentially a part of the constitution, although it had lat. and, therefore, could not comply with their petition. (Hear,,
tarty by an extreme exercise of power been kept in play- hear.) I still think the name, and unwillim as I always
nue ; as regarded the habits of the people, they knew am to trespass upon your lordship's attentions, and still
that they were in the habit of meeting and discussing all more unwilling as lam to Minss sentiments wheat flitter
matters, and they aka knew that all religious commune perhaps from those of many, both in thus honey awl out of
ties in this country, except the church of England, met it, with whom it would inc fair more satisfectiny to me to
tai ...ha '!9laidrre'lent me dj...N*4cm-, CII. their USLrs. ;. , colleolf)-1 'Wheye it is ney duty, Ater the leech of the
might be said, however, that the church of England was noble lord, to state the ground. on which I think that the
ass established church, and not to be guided by the example assembling of convocation, with active powers, would tend
of other religious bodies; but if they turued to Scotland, to increase discord in the church, and not to produce the
they found that the established church had its regular harmony which he desires to restore. (Hear, hear.) I be-.
synselical meetings, 'mint year after year. (tkar, hear.) lieve that there are forma! and technical dillicultio attend-
And nothing in all probability would be more likely to Mg the revival of the powers of convocation, and the
drive that sensible and serious thinking people into rebel- noble lord has acknowledged that before it can act it
lion than the stopping of the action of their church. There must be remodelled; into these l will not enter.
had existed two convocations of the church, namely, that I will suppose that all such technicalities are over-
ot Canterbury and that of York. Neither of them was, come, all obstacles removed, her Majesty's advisers
however, perfect in its constitution; but if the matter were satisfied, her Majesty consenting, convocation called
seriously discussed in a repreeentatim assembly of the together ; what would follow ? Great disappoints
church, he din' not think there would he any ditii- ment, or great excitement. (Hear, hear.) What business
cult), experienced in deciding on a constitution which is to be despatched? Some would say the Liturgy requires
would prove satisfactory to mist parties, and con- revision. Some rubrics are inconsistent, and others unintel-
ducive to the welfare and stability of the church. ligible. If the assembling of couvocetiun were to end in
If the constitution were to he changed of course it was nes the reconciliation of someconflieting rubrics, or in supplying
cessary that the body should meet and decide on the cult- the deficiency of others, or in the eleunge of a few obsolete
ject. An objection had been rained to the efdlact that if words or questionable phrases, the result would be little
convocation niet there would be no end to dispute. Redid worth the cost of production. (Hear, hear.) It would be
not trust much to prophecies on a matter of this sort. 'Lle justly Quid dignem tante saran /lie ',mulles.) /einem (Hear,
could not see where any danger was to be apprehended on gear.) Thus far, then, you disappoint; gsn farther, and
this point. No heat would arise in tho discussions, fur he you excite. If more were attempted, mid the doctrine of
believed that although there might exist a difference of the Prayer-book were touched, even with the slightest hand
opinion, all discussion would be carried on in a manner a Same would he lighted up front ono cal of the country to
creditable to the body itself, and with a g•umd effect the other. (Hear, hear.) Where we have now a smothered
en 'the tone of public feeling. Another objection was fire, hotter perhaps than is agreeable, but still &mantel&
that it would cause still greater division.: between the church we should raise a conflagration which it woula require all
anddissenters ; but he thought that, at the present moment, her Majesty's prerogative tun extinguish. (Item., hear)
in the alatace of convocation, there was more bitteritese Suppose, then, the Liturgy untosithal, mil nothing more
witnessed between the church and those seperated front attempted than what we know to be desired by limy mem-
ber, than ever previously existed. Another objection ben of the church—the issuing a declaration which should
raised was, that this convocation movement was solely pro- contradict a recent decision of the Privy Council, amid
motel by the high church party, and that the effect of the defining the effect of baptism more clearly than it is do-
assembling of convocation would be humanising. Of all tined in our article's,—would ineace follow ? Can we suppose
the charges which could be brought against the revival of that this would prove a healbig measure. I cannot ass ni-
canvocation, this was the last which had any real founda- terpret the spirit of the age as to believe that the great
then. lie did not believe that the revive' of convocation , body of church, laity or clergy, are prepared to restrict the
lie d been promoted by what were called the Romenising ; liberty of opinion in matters hitherto undecided, which our
party. Sonic of them, no doubt, had bean induced to joint forefathers have always enjoyed, and under which the church
iin reeking for it, because it was necessary for them to juin has flourishes! for three hundred year. Wu may speak
Iwhat was called the church party on all questions. But here with confidence, for the experiment has been tried.
they knew that many of that party were strengly For obvious reasons I avoid all allusion to any events which
opposed to the revival of convocation. (Hear, hear) may have. taken place at home. But the experiment has
1 Another objection was, that convocation had ilerer beau tried in Australia. (Hear, hear.) A declaration such
, done any good in matters of dispute. No doubt all as I have alluded to was drawn up in October last by the
assemblies a that kind were, more or less, open to objet- , Bishop of Australia, assembled in synod ; and the same ship
time of this sort. He knew that in religious matters which brought home the particulare of the synod, brought
people had their prejudices, and often carried them to an also the account of the effect which it had produced in ono
extent which was not desirable, but this was no reason of the cities where it was first promulgated, which instead
against the diseusaion of disputed questions, fur it was by of concord, was dissension, where all had been previously
fair and candid disicussson and inquiry, that the troth was peaceful. It had endangered the popularity of a bishop who
elicited. No church stood in a more definite position than the was universally and deservedly esteemed ; atul the principal
church of England, and what they wanted was a body to laity of the city had met together, and unananiously pro-
meet, now and then to whom questions connected with the tested against a measure which they treated as an infringe-
" church might be referred for discussion and decision. Ile meat upon their liberty as churchmen. (Hear, hear.) If I
i' believed that if convocation had sat on they would have do not fear any such result here it is because I do not enter-
I had infinite:y more of unity in the church at the present tain any apprehensions of the issuing of sushi a declaration.
moment. The sovereign, by the constitution of the church, (Hear, hear.) My lords, the noble lord has spoken of the
represented from a eery early period, the lay element in convocations as part of the constitution. In point of fact,
convocation. It lay with the • sovereign to determine 1 the convocation was a very uninfluential body for 100 years
when it was politic to raise questions, e and he be- after the Reformation. (Hear.) But it is a mistake to
lieved that in that respect there was a degree of guarded- suppose that we owe to that assembly the constitution and
ness over the discussions of the convocations which would fabric of our church.' Convocation had little to do with
prevent any danger, and do away with any serious alarm or the framing of our first protestant services and articles.
apprehension. Not only this, but the convocation could nut The first protestant service, which has now been ma-
constitute new canons without the consent of the crown. terially changed, was framed by a committee of bishops
INothing could be done by the convocation which could and the divines, at the order of King Edward, in
affect the laity, and when they saw how the church was the year 1519. It was submitted to convocation, not
, governed with regard to everything which could prejudice ,to be formed but to his approved. The articles of
those who had been affected by its decisions, lie I the church, three years afterwards, were drawn up, not
asked their lordships what just apprehensions Cott?d in convocation, but by Crammer and delisd they who
rest in the minds of any one regarding assisted them. They were ratified, moted, in con-