The Express.
London, England, 1849-03-31 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, MAW! '34 1849:

• '

,
le Mad tit this was lastietiregl low
....,,..,.....bel r=mitejl44tit'st all
rim illtile ellit7ll-11VIOnsTrni-7197 ifir kat when.
838
ertatell ion tharmooky were ensuntheree, they ,yere sub.
booed to this eiditionat and itampeeted boars. I think
i= to be nesamberedi that Asko • ported et woo-
calamity, in the 'sidle of * Wallas of the suet
aerial character, Ireland enstaleed 6 berthas of
1,600m0i. for the asaiatenance of the pen - I think that
was an wanted-of exertion ea the pert of Ireland.
I beard some hen. member my dolor • former sight'. debate
upon this question. " Why should we support your poor in
' Ireland after you haw rebelled spinet u I" Now, I be
Have that to be an unfolded dole against the parole of
Ireland. The people of belied did not rebel. You uses
enabled without the leo of a shale life to sewer the out-
break last year, because Inked did not abet. (Seer )
Through all their offeriage, amidst all their °Mashie%
the Irish people reasalsod true to their allegiance.
and I remind you of these fasts is order to
propitiate the English nation towards that unfortu-
nate people. I speak, air, at this moment, ender an
overwhelming sane of the magnitude of the mi.& which is
sow impending. My appeal ti the more favoured portions
of this empire is not merely based on the natural foliar of
sympathy which the miseries of our fellow subjects sad
eitUee mut excite in our heart.. I believe those sympathies
would prevail, wire the case of Ireland to be well and
thoroughly made ?stood. But my appeal rests oath* far st romer
ground that your own interests are most deeply implicated in
the discovery of • remedy tor her present horrible condition.
With the permission of the honest will briefly recapitulate
the circumstances in which we now stand with respect to
Ireland. In the onion of 1817-8 we found it amino to
coraineace the pablie business by consenting to the hash
Arms Art. end ..we coacluded that session by prolog
the Habeas Corpus Suspension Act. I pre my medial
support to the government on both these insusiores,
because I believed them to be founded oa sage as-
comity All the evils coke which Ireland labored
would have teen aggravated had those bills not been peened. I
I refer to them new, sot for the toupees of rosarleg *he'
georameat which ;Taught theta forward, but sorely be ee-
Wad the beam of the unhappy condition of behest Iris
in oh Net England will endeavour, by stone-Ai 'an fa-
dames to the state of Inland, to seems sharing theetu-
des Imposed en her by that country. The difileuity will be
solved by legland beim reduced to the sou Neel as Ire-
land. At the pretest moment there are net lens than
30,800 regular troops is that country. The hot amounts,
inked, state the number at 32,000. In &ditties' to these
troops there are 5,400 pensioner., and from 13,000 to 14,000
non lathe emosta_trolsry, force, the expense of all of which
h er, net by IrelaM bat by the homy. The
whole imam et mss se chord en the-imp imperialerial treesury is
47,000, sad'sus mot bees ia mind that whatever reduction
you may Melt is We One by Wpm* the social condi-
tion of eland is a peemiary gaba to the country at large.
Now, with that furs existing to Ireland, for the express
=p:soo=rovilng aeler
that iess:-wiry rti let me ask you, i
presume that the setette.
Mate-
meat whisk I Sad is this paper is a carrot one, aad I here
see it mended that at the last Cloninel arises, which are
held for sae division of the county of Tipperary, there Were
279 pewees la the ealendar for Dial and that whilst the pri-
sm Om melyouttaine 223 cells, thins were natuallyconlned
Is it Mt pweas. etwhom 20 were under sentence of trouper-
Welk. • fromwhich I have takes this statement
adds, and I thinkwith greatj meths, that " thermos be no won-
der at Judge Jackson calling this an awful calendar." I can-
met therefore, abstain from recommending and even pressing
as the consideration of the house the social condition of Ire-
land, and I do this in that spirit of conciliation which the
hen. and learned member (Mr. Napier) so ably
enjoined. (Hear, hear.) The parts of Ireland where
the puniest distress exists, and where the unions are sot
able to eappeet themselves, but require extrinsic aid, are
&idly to Mimeo sod Connaught ; te them I add
the sweaty of Donegal, bemuse It is seAmilated in point of
madition to these provinces. I find by the last population
amens that the population of Munster la 1841 was
LIN 000. the population of Connaught In that year
woe 1,418,000, and of the county of Donegal 400,000,
s • total population in a diarist which
ma be defined by drawing a line from the Bay
of Donegal to Waterford, of 4,000,000. In adverting to the
condition of Ireland, I shall take a period antecedent to the
More of the food which has happened during the last four
pare. I will revert to a period when Ireland was in full
possession of protective duties, the repeal of which, accenting
to the hon. and learned member (Mr. Napier) aggravated
the miseries which Ireland has endured. Now, whilst the'
protective duties were still in full force in Ireland, what, let''
me ask you, was the condition of the labourer, and what
woo the stale of the landed proprietary there t Let me refer
you upon these points to witnesses of the most undoubted
description—namely, those who constituted Lord Devon's
ouninission, and whose report is dated Feb. 1, 1845. Now,
it must be remembered that than, are not my own observa-
tions or statement.. I us about to place before
_you the tes-
timony of Serialises of unriesekmable veracity who were
fully osnemsant with the add *sedition of Intend! sad I
take km to keen* that *ammo on Lord Doan a Wm-
minim Waded Kr. Eedingtesa, Wif Robot Forfflanksid
other highly hemmed mesabere of this how. The w-
lowni:rthe @Wiliam.. whisk I kid in their roped.
reveled to be lOW le oil ask thousli weingtaral
Ineeesemosia epzeVielsoming, pa la amiellpials et hood
Owe was ase is whom la the seder et sericut-
mei laboursis-410 faseliessil le wake km emmieet
that May ink hood. bier Ilk tally antiCtireirt
In the mend volume of the scone nodal there is
referees. made to a mho deammeatpropered by those
who made OW tile NMI Ike the year 1846. Those porters
state that they *Med the hews of Ireland into four dif-
ferent classes, mad that 1111119,111* Mt fourth class was merely
a mud cabin with one mama They them ascertained, what
proportion of the taillike& lenses of belted consisted of
that fourth class ; and hen the hose mast observe that this
could have reference to no date pooloise to 1844, bemuse
the report was signed the Ist February 1845. It may be
assumed'that these forth clam houses 'are paerally unfit
for human habitation, ski yet it would appear that in the
beat circumstanced okay is this respect—the county of
Down-24 7-10ths per sent, or one-fourth of the whole
population live in hams elks* elms ; whilst in the wont
circumstanced districts thepoopeetien is 86 7-10ths per cent.,
or two-thirds of the wish population. (Hear, bear.)
In the oral tikleists about 43 per ant., and in
the urban dislikes about 311 per cent. of the popu-
lation inhabit honest et the foe* elms. I should wish
more particularly tura of them filiniets where the great
sit distress prevails—these districts which are mainly de-
podia. on you kr support. In Donegal I find that the
number of the population inhabiting these hark ekes
houses is 47 per omit. ; is Leitrim, 47 ; in Ithossallolis 47 t
in Sligo, 50; in Galway, 52 ; la Limerick, 65; la Conk, 68;
in Clare, 56 ; in Mayo, 82 ; and in Keay, 193. flesh was the
state of affairs before Ireland was visited with that doodad
calamity, the first appearance of which was is the mamma of
1848. (Hear, hear.) Now, what was the esmilithen of Ire-
land with regard to loaded property and the tenure of
landed property ? There was laid before this Moe, a short
time since, an sheavet of the number of estates in Ireland
under the management of the Courts of Chancery and Ex-
chequer. I will not, in the first totems, refer to the
years 1845, 1848, or 1847 ; but again purposely go
back to a year in which there were heavy duties upon
the in. the el foreign cern—to a year when Ireland
njeyed whatever advantage was to be gained from roftde-
to the agriculture. What was the eondition, then, of landed
property in the year 1844? In the sew of the Court of
Chemesey, I find that the number of estates under ite ma-
noismost in that year was 874. The yearly rental of those
estate was 748,0001. The arrears et the resolvers, when
lint appointed, were 34,6001. oa the whole of those 'estates.
Ent the arrears, when the last account was toads up in 1844,
bed increased to no lees • sum than 380,8001. Meer, hear.)
The ears paid by the receivers amounted to 17,34 W. ,• sail
out el the yearly rental of 748,0001., what do you think was
the sum expended Is *moments on the estates ? (Heir
hem) Out of • natal of 748,0001. a year, the sum expendsl
V Improvements was 2,6831. (Chasm sad a laugh.) With
regard to the Court of Exchequer, I am obliged to take the
=..1844, 1845, 1848, 1847, and 1848, collectively, '
the return doe not give them separately. ,
And what do I find ? I find that during these I
Me there were under the management of the Court of
Emier 448 MOM The yearly rental was 1554001: The
mum 0 the leaven who they were flat appointed oleo
81,7001., 'Kik had iscreesed at the time oldie het
-to 171$11001. Theories paid by the reesiven woe 311,14.11.51
amount *wooded in impememente we. absdatalv
(Hear, hear.) Now who is the audition et meateimalifirsi
by the Court. of Chemeso send instaerreer ? Do yea halo
what it mans? (Hoar, kescl I bad the—l will net my
geed fortune--but the millimteme te bear ma account of what
kin was from • M member ails
bona—Mr. GaresniallealmeC4 spice from the highest
watheeities, fer he was himself a sessior under the Caul of
Chomey, and he certainly soil not be Yuma by any
partisky to give testimony unduly nufavemishie towards the
system (Obese). Mr. Gelman said that hewn the receiver'
for them esteems. Of cm, in the emit, Tipperary the rental
end VOW. • year. It had been u his ore for 21
um. arm h the meow of the whole of that time not Is. had
been emporia.* holm* the condition of that estate. He
was meat, toss, for so estate In Mayo, the reat of which was
4,5001. That estate had been nine year. under his manage-
meat, and 1881. was all that had been expended ea its im-
provement. He was spat shoo for an estate in Westmeath,
of which the rental was 10,8001. That estate had been tea
years under his management, and the sum expoded la Im-
provements did not amount to 0001. daring the whole poi-
/bd. He had received from that aloe more theloo,oool.,
while' 8001. only had been esapleyed towards its Improve-
mot. (Chao) But even the expenditure of that 8001.
bad not bees honed without oasiderable advantage to
aurae from ft There had been nothing expeed until
within the lest throe yam, when 2001. • year lad been laid
=V Oft
him II paltr
10111144 thy outlay ofe
1001. • year, for three years bad
eam et 2,8001. of old arre
The Sod year he received 8001, ef old enure, and the two
yore 1,0001. 'ma, (Chows.) I refer to this
slats oftklaes redoes to the year 1844, for the purpose of
=OWON ilhauh7—whetter or not musk a audition el
_ peernln sai be of any benefit either to the owner,
1110rigmbnialMgalf the illealm (Load cheers.) Ireland,
tbill. Wog Om sbeene with to the great
ome of 16 posh**, mod with regarrnedthe tenure of
hiked pepsin there supervered. believe, the greatest
caleadty whisk almost ever sesame& be the Waxy of 'ma
kind. (Chess.) These new ear pos of the smomive
failure of thallmeties et oloistenee ea whisk the root mess
ef the population 'shied. (Hear, hem) Four suscosio
years I (Cheers.) Now, what inflames bs kat greet
calmaity upon the 'mike* the of people r nil. y Ala,
is a most faithful account of the condition is which the
AO year of the famine found the people of trailed,
and more modelly of the south and west, In
the best of Sao their existence wu wretched, and when
the Amine came—when the only root !they had beat mos-

taut to leis to for feed betwou a mem of rottenness, with
nb employment, so sasaufacturee, *op ware -left &that
sustenance, end without moan*, fit alerts for the aid
provided for them hem the bounty of the empire, the
charity of the benevolent, and the law now In faros for the
relief of the poor. (Chem) That wis the condition of the
poor of Ireland, &in lived in villegesi when they wore over-
takencledthat dreadful. calamity. Bat there was anpther
eh" . I suppose, a little higher in the sosial wale, who
had smell holdings of two, three or more acres of land—
their tillage was of the rudest deseription—greon crops were
unknown—het, potatoes—then eats—potatoes again—then
oats, or perhaps barley—often two or three grain crops
in satiessam. Some of the potatoes which did not
decay in 1847 were sought for with extraordinary
avidity in the hope that they would grow again
in 1848. They made a last effort to purchase
seed. The cow and every available article were sold. Many
staked their all epos that root, and lost it. The blast came
and mere withering ruin than before. (Cheers.) That I be-
lieve to be a faithful and true sers--nat of the condition of the
peasantry In many parts of Ireland at the period of which I
am now speakinr. They staked their all on the cultivation
of the port*. They lost, and ruin more withering than be-
fore has followed. (General applause.) Now, whet has been
the inflames of the regressive failure of the potato crop,
combined with the operation of the poor law open landed
property ? All the *cumbrances existing in 1844 have bre&
aggravated by the inability to meet former arrears sad to pay
the arrests of the poor rate; and by just so much is the con-
dition of landed property worse now than it was in 1844.
(lieu, hear.) Now what is the present condition of a great
put of Ireland? I take the 21 wont unions. There are 21
unions in Ireland comprising an immense district of country,
and a very great population, of which this is the financial
stale:—ls 18 of those unions you have been compelled—
ressemeldy, no doubt—to supersede the local exertions of the
• • and their affairs are now administered by vim-guar-
dins; who are discharging their duties, as it appease to me,
Mier je=llotandfaithfully.(Hoer.) In those union the
the year riding the 29th Sept., 1848, was
4811,0081. The net amount of debt on that day not provided
fee we. luxes. ; there being, therefore, for that year, in-
cluding the amanal expenditure, an outstanding debt to pro-
viOrt for of 11211.0001., for the relief of the poor—how was
thet expeudienee to be met ? (Cheers) It was impassible
foe them es meet it by their own unaided
offsets. Yon wire obliged to meet it. You did ;
aad, se I Mak, wisely; for whatever objections
there may he to the principle of adopting such a
course, yet. rather than suffer tiny portion of the Queen's
subjects M stem, yea preferred to meet it early by private
s Men, when that was exhausted, by funds
btroiXtelinealAdis Oteleary. (Claire.) Well, the rate eol-
!feted to meet the impemiiture, or rather the demand of
692,0001., was only MINK The difference supplied by the
British Anioelatios and the Treasury was 256,80 W. The
funds of the Bridle Amesiation are, I apprehend, expended.
You have no longer that segue, therefore, to rely on ; so
that, if there must be extraneous aid, the treasury is the
only source from which it can be desired. (Cheers.) That
was the general condition cf those 21 aloes. I will now
refer, with the permission of the house, to the state of one or
two althea This I find to be the condition of the Castiebar
union. There is a population of 61,000 persons. The
maximum who received relief in 1847 was 44,000.
fisecessive yeas, of :famine have told fearfully on
the &insistences of all classes. Among the highest mad—
,' the immediate lessen—there are no less than nine (pro-
prietots) whim eft& are under the supervision of the
Court of Menem gad managed by the receiver. The in-
cumbrous* of forum aerumulathig upon present dis-
asters, appear to extrication hauler. (Rea)
The Clifden salon presents this extraordinary fast, that out
lot a net annual alas of 19,9861., there has been land thrown
up to the amount of 11,1211., or nearly three.fifths of the whole
net value ; in consequence, I presume, of the inability of the
persons so throwing up their land to meet the demands
already made upon them, and their unwillingness to incur
further responsibilities. I have now before me the
copy of a memorial recently presented to the go-
vernment from the grand jury if the county of
Cork. They say they should not conceal from the
government their conviction that that county was not
able to pay the arrears of advances--that that inability h
attended by the fact that there are in that county
thousands of acres of land thrown oat of cultivation and
wholly waste at this moment—that two of their baronial rate
collector thaw up their appointments at the last arises—
that one barony alone extending over 80,000 acres bad been
without a soaks& from that time to this, and that it was
impossible to get a collector, the entire barony being alleged
to be waste. Meer, har.) Now (sail the right hon.
gentleman emphatically) what are our prospects? (Hear,
hear.) Observe new what is the altered condition of
insolvent landed property with reference to solvent property
sines the passing of the poor law. (Hear, hear.) Previous
to the poor law each property, whether solvent or insolvent
stood aline. The neglect of tenants, inability to pay rent,
general mismanagement, and so forth, of *solvent
estates, did not visit immediately the solvent estates in
their neighbourhood. It did no doubt eventually, but no
direct peculiar bonbon immediately ensued. Now, how-
ever, under the poor law, what is the condition of solvent
leash ? Why, they become responsible' es fa as the nur-
poses of the poor law are concerned, for the insolvent. (Hear,
hear.) Now, I am speaking to Englishmen. I am mention-
ing details with which Irish gentlemen ere perfectly familiar,
and let ma auk those who belong to our common country
what are we to do or to expect with regard to Ireland ?
What are the facts ? Is it true that in Cork they are unable
to obtain a collector foir • barony of 80,000 acres, because the
whole of it is waste ? Is it true that out of a net annual value
of 20,0001. in one nuke, land to the amount of 11,1211. has
bee* thrown up ? Is it true that in another union the estates
of Wu of the chief proprietors are subject to the
management of the Court of Chancery, of which I have given
you a spasms ? If it be hue, let us calmly ask our-
selves what is to be the result. And observe that the effects
of this insolvency must go on eaten-ling until the solvent
and the insolvent will be merged is one common rain.
(11ear, hear.) Bat what is the position of the poor ? Every
sere of land that is thrown out of cultivation aggravates the
evil. What Is the position of that barony of 80,000 acres
now waste? What is the condition of the poor on it ? Now
don't let us fancy that there is hope in a good potato harvest.
(Hoer, hear.) You may have a plentiful potato harvest in
1849. If you have there will be a false reliance placed upon
it. The end of spring of 1860 will exhibit the most de-
termined effort to perpetuate the cultivation of the potato.
Every exposes will be saved to suable the people to collect
seed and to provide for subsistence during 1849, and you
may go on for a time ; but after the warning we have had
for the last four amnia years can we feel any assurance
that this would prove even a temporary relief ? My belief is
that It will only perpetuate a vicious system—that whilst it
will diminish the demand on the treenry for a time,
perhaps, nothing but evil will be the ultimate result of a
rzrzpotato banes: in 1849. (Hear.) The real troth
..... deliberating and acting is one of the moat
estraeediury miles in the history of this country. It Is ne-
cessary he us to understand this question thoroughly. Un-
less we are resolved to have recourse again to that vicious
practise ',relying upon the potato as a means of subsistence,
canthe wit ef Mays way other remedy than the gradual
introduction M eerie! crepe to substitution of that root ?
(Hear.) You are now feeding probably 100,000 destitute
pumas in Ireland. You are enabled to do it because you
had the wisdom to remove every impediment which pre-
viously existed in the way of the introduction of foreign corn.
If that law, of which I felt it my duty to propose the re
were now ta existence, there would have been a duty, I peal be-
,
lieve, of about 10s. a quarter upon the introduction of Indian
meal. It is that Indian meal as a substitute for the potato
which now saahles you to keep body and soul together—for
you do nothing more--asnoont those miserable people at an
expanse to the imperial treasury of net quite Id. a-day for
each pence. (Cheers.) Now this is the problem you have
to solve. By what means will you provide for the substitu-
tion of it higher and more curtain description of food in the
plate of that potato which has hitherto been relied on to se
itW purples ? I believe that few will take the chance of
the potato again. If you do not, what course will you pur-
sue between the Interval that mast elapse before a cereal
substitute as be provided? It will be a long interval.
Again, an acre of land which, applied to potatoes, will sup-
port a certain number of parsons, applied to wheat will not
support half that number. Great care will be required in
the cultivation. Drainage will be nteiliaary. The lands
are exhausted by the potato, and are &It for the sub-
agitation of areal crop. (Hear, hear.) If you are
then to substitute cereal {raping? Icey that no person
in Ireland holding a hat of five saes of land can support
his family upon it. (Cheers.) I know one single estate
where there are 160 tenants occupying forms of not more
than five sires in extent. Hitherto the system has worked
remarkably well. They grew corn enough to pay the rent
and lived apes the potato* They cannot do this any more.
If you enuarage them to grow corn instead et the potato
they will not be able to support their families. Those 180
fernmeareonst either ahead= their lankor cease to pay rent ;
or many, I appreheed, easing their capft.l, will proceed to
the Uniba Stehle. Now, under these circumstances, is there
any alterative far Great Britain to adopt—has she any al-
ternative so far as her own *tenets are concerned ? If
Ireland should come forward, as I trust she will, in the
spirit of the samodment of the hon, gentleman—if she
should some forward and bear her share of the
burden—if she will make great exertions to pa
the just debt which she owes us on account of union
workhouses—such an exhibition will make England more
ready to co-operate with her in some decisive meant» hay-
ing in view the end of the cultivation of cereal crops. And
this is rally the main point—it is not the qiestion of the
200,0001. or 300,0001. ; but I want to see Ireland taking a
step in her own behalf which shall propitiate** good feeling
of this country. Now what muse shall we pursue ? I am
sure, if I offer any suggestion, the last thing to eater my
mind will be an wish to embarrass the government. But
I think something must be done. (Cheer,) Sate course
must be adopted far the purpose of keeping the people alive.
I mnare the boar gentlemen that he shanderstocii me, if
he thought I said that the mere rehetitntioa of one
proprietary for another would at ease solve the
difibruhy. I feel as much convineed as any min
that no single measure will be suflisient Se relieve Ireland
from her &Scotties. (Chests.) Itappsagg to me that there
would be an aduatega in *Wei PIM immadlate steps with
regard to the superintending@ ail of those
districts of Ireland whisk are the (Hoer,
hear.) As I said before, you have net the advantage of
local ataassemeat. You are not hefting losal functionaries
to maderlehe elm duties of management
18 salons are
nigalready gam viehtma&nguerdleas. sumested the sordama&ftenby
far
t et a essambeks ii• the other
of te mine. liabeeeneat refiretien has Wnisme
think that that is the beet name on can poison I would
:deg are Whin of Mon liaises under one
mord sod eignelareadeisce. I would haves iliellUnisairla
appointed by the government, having the seedidesee of the
government, comoosal of men on wham they ma rely,
deriving their authority from the government (no
UNA
isinaperio)—(lltar, hear)—whose duty should be, with-

out delay, to apply themselves to the managetnent
and Improvement of those unions. (Rears hear.)
I would propose that the commission should discharge its
duties on the spot. I helices there would be the greatest
advantage If you could, as I have no doubt you could, pre-
vail on men of **highest tharaceer, in the management of
landed property in Ragland, politically connected with you,
in whom the country has oonfidsnoe, to devote themselves
to the consideration of this question. If they saw with their
own eyes—if they entered into a personal conference, and
they would judge foe themselves—not through the interven-
tion of chair agents—they would be enabled to suggest to you
a measure well deserving of your consideration. I would advise
you to place under the charge of the commission all the
various measures that have been suggested for the mitigation
of this calamity. I would try to act on some concerted
scheme. Yon have grants for the fisheries, grants for the
improvement of the loud for public works ; it appears to me
that the application of these grants in these distressed unions
should be made on some system ; that there should be con-
cert with the view guardians. I do not propose that you
should supersede the board of works, but that grants should
be made with a view to one object, to lay the foundation of
a bitter scheme. The hon. and learned gentleman
was wrong in supposing that all we contemplated in
1846 was the import of corn; we proposed and her
Majesty's present government most willingly paiseil into a
law in 1846, a bill to authorise the advance of public money
to a limited amount to promote the improvement of land by
public works. It appears to me that those superintendent,
to which I have referred should also take into consideration
the policy of diminishing the pressure by the means of emi-
gration. We have the greatest colonial empire on the fees
of the earth. la several of those colonies there is a great de-
mand for labour ; in Ireland there is an excess and superfluity
of labour, counteracting all your exertions. It does seem post--
We that by some combined measures you might mitigate the
evil by introducing a good system of emigration. I piece lees
confidence la the eMoecy of this than many do. lam quite
aware of the enormous expense. lam quite aware of the
necessity of great caution in the application ; but there is
one sneerer cosgantly made, which is thought conclusive,
which I don't think Is entitled to all the weight attributed
to it. It is said—do not interfere, on the part of the state,
in promoting emigration because there is a vast amount of
voluntary emigration going on. 1 should be unwilling to
interfere with voluntary emigration conducted at the ex-
pense of the proprietors who feel an interest in relieving
themselves; at the um* time, before we admit the
argument of voluntary emigration to be conclusive,
let us inquire of whom the emigrants consist.
Many are men who are taking capital ; many are men suf-
f. ring under the apprehension of approaching poor rates ;
and every man you lose from Iresand who talus away more
capital than the number that capital would employ is a
dead ices. The combrtable farmer, possessing some 401. or
501. capital, who sell. the tenant-right of his holding in the
north of Ireland, and transfers hie capital to the Unittd
States and Canada, confers no benefit whatever on Ireland
by emigration, and by withdrawing the capital which might
be usefully employed. There Is another class of volun-
tary emigrants I. whose expatriation we have no cause
to rejoin ; they are the class of helpless paupers
who go off because theT are afraid of positive
starvation, and inflict positive evil on the colony.
I believe you have in many respects remedied many of the
great evils which attended emigration. I believe that there
have been useful precautions adopted In respect to emigra-
tion ; but I meet say that I never heard a more painful ac-
count of this voluntary emigration than that which I find in
a letter of so recent a date as the 30th Nev., 1847, which
bears the signature of Mr. Davere, and which has been
adopted as an official document by the Colonial-office. This
is the account which Mr. Devere gives of the voluntary emi-
gration to which I have referred, of the completely destitute,
and no record of suffering on board a slave ship has anything
approaching to this :
Mr. Devere aye be took his purge in the eteerage of the ship
that he might be a judge of the ceedition of tho emigrant. For
nearly two months before the mlgraa has been at sea be is an
altered man. how ma It be otherwise It Hundreds of poor people.
men, women, and children, of an aim from the drivelling idiot of
90 to the babe just born, timid althold lib, withoutair, weiteriect in
filth, breethhog a fatted atmosphere, sick and fevered patients, lyiag
in sleeping places hi narrow as to deny them the power of indulg.
lag in ths natural rogicamem ot Assam, disturbing those
around them, and predisposing to contagion, living with-
out food or asedielso, except as administered by the hand
of casual charity, dying without spiritual commlatios, buried
without the rites el the shush, fed on insufficient food, with supplies
of water, hardly smash kr seeking and drinking, and which did not
allow washing. In many Aim Mthy beds. teeming with all abomi.
nation, never required tole Monett on deck, a narrow place between
the sleeping places, and the pass of boxes never washed, • kotiel
stench, until the day helm the mica at quarantine, when all hands
were required Se put en a kik fees kr the orrenseint inspectorate
voice of pnwr Yank drenirsorss imundiscoursged,
it is waters to the with' who road in grog.
" ' _

_ -
Such emigration is • positive disgrace to this country,
with its great colonial empire. These people do the greatest
disservice on their arrival in the colony or in the United
States; they nun • repugnance to emigration conducted on
such a system ' • they induce the countries to which these
people go to throw impediments in the way of emigration,
and they prevent that sound and healthy emigration
which might take place, if conducted on good
principles. Not entertaining too confident an expectation
of the advantages of emigration, still I cannot but think
it likely that a superintending authority, eating in concert
with the colonial.office, being on the spot, able to communi-
cate with the proprietors of estates, seeing in what part of
the country there Is a congestion of population, might
puffy facilitate voluntary emigration. There is • great
evil in the want of full informaq m. Conceive a men seek-
ing a new abode in the United States, 2,000 or 3,000 miles
from home—what comfort to have ready mores to • man who
could give him information! I think it would be politic to
incur some exp.ue for the purpose of facilitating emigration
under certain auditions. You tell us what has been
done by the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, and by
others • that they have reduced the amount of poor-rates on
their Utatesby the emigration of superfiaities, that they have
increased the demand for labour, and restored prosperity
and contentment on their estate; and that those who had
emigrated were remitting sum, to Ireland to encourage
emigration. Lord Palmerston may have been able to effect
this. As I said before, I think the exertions made by him
to relieve the district from the misery with which it hits
been visited, do him very great credit; out how many
gentlemen may be in Ireland willing to make the
same exertions if they had your assistance and advice!
You might go on increasing this fund of emigration—by
emigration wisely conducted you might encourage further
remittances from emigrants in the United States. I say,
therefore, that in addition to public works, in addition to
fisheries, in addition to encouragement by draining, all of
which I think might be attained by this commission of which
I speak, I think the condition of the country, and the mans
of improving it by emigration, should belamongst the first
subjects that should occupy attention. I tome to another
point, to which I adverted the other night, and to which I
still attach the greatest importance. In my opinion all these
measures will be ineffectual, union you can cure, in some
way or other, those monstrous evils which arise from the
condition of landed property to which I have referred. If
with estates producing 800,0001. a year, with arrears an-
nually accumulating, with not more than 2,0001. of the
whole rental applied to the permanent improvement of 1
the estates; if there an certain principles entertained by
the Court: of Chancery which oppose an insuperable ob-
stacle to any improvement in that respect, then it is my
firm belief, that it would be of inestimable advantage to
every solvent estate—of great advantage to the nominal
owner, the incumbrancer—of advantage to everybody except
the receiver of the Court of Chancery and the lawyers, who are
dividing the profita—(cheers and laughter)—that consistently
with right dealing towards the proprietors of the property,
you could relieve them estates, and permit them to be culti-
vated by men with capita, free from ineumbrances, with new
hope; and new vigour. In my opinion you would do more
by that act for the advancement of Ireland than by any other
that you could at present suggest—l will just contrast with
the hopeless condition of some puts of Ireland on account of
she ex, eat of these ineumbraitees—l will read to the house a
letter of a very humble man, relating what he had done in
Ireland. although having no ecenexion in that nun-
try, and undertaking • settlement in a remote
cof Ireland, but briefing capital enough for
ultivation eif the lands. It is on a small scale, but
if you will devise measures which will enable • man usefully
and securely to follow this man's example, you may judge
of what may be done- This is 4 WSW from • Lancashire
man who gives an account of an undertaking to which he had
been &party on the west-coast of Ireland. He says : " I had
taken in perpetuity, a lease on the westuoast of Ireland."
(Hear, hear.) He had planted few of his sone there. To
encourage habits of industry one we. bayiag all the stock
brought to him to send to England.
Another purchased a weal of 23 tans, and endeavoured to room-
Mir fishing on the emit; washer was employing last year upwards
of 100 labourers, but cm amount of befog heavily taxed for his fre-
provements, he had turned them off. Meer, hear.) hoes that
dal send you a letter which weis never ifted.W to be seen. It is
ted the len Ibizen. This is the smug Ideals the son gives of his
ge"t
it this rionatry, will& we suppose to be so wild and
savage. The more I lea, the more lan eouvineed that this coun-
try be. the best prospects el any piece I know of. There is every de-
sideratum for the enjoyment of• cententsd end presperows Ilk I see
no reason why any persons should set support themselves entirely oa
the endow of their lands here. Of beef, wortioa, and taken elmort
tosithaustible supply can always be bad. Flour, eanneal, em., should
come of the farm. A thandierh shop alsoold sever be known—ta rut,
rosaries and something for elothing should be the on,y expenditure
eta person in this country. For the yearly stun o si. esough fuel
mr, ba obtained to superfluity; and as to vegetables, any plant
`es eeing" under that denomination will flourish here with ordinary
Which is the beet means of encouraging the improvement of
abates, exertions like thew or estates left to the management
et the Court of Chancery? I mentioned before, the manage-
'meat of property, to a certain extent, by the commission of
which I speak. No man has lees eciddenee than I have in
the money of such an nedertaking. So far from advising
this commission to enter upon the employment of unprofit-
able labour, I think such a can/minion, if it were appointed,
ought to have for the principal end of its appointment, to re-
vert to the principle of 1839, and to make the workhouse the
tend destitution. I do not believe there can be any other test.
(Hoer.) I have not the slightest confidence in a labour rate.
I have confidence in enco local improvements where
there is reproductive labour, iltut I have not the slightest
confidence in making labour the test of destitution, and I
believe if the funds of Great Britain were applied to support
the destitute in Ireland, even attaching labour as the condi-
tion of relief, you would do the greatest mischief; that your
test could not be effective ; but that there would be such an
interference a ith the ordinary labour market as to involve all
in one common destitution ; but seeing the loss es to the sub-
stitution of eereal food, I cannot say I should be
adverse altogether to such an undertaking se should
set an example of improved cultivation. I am told that
the Lard-Lientseant hes done ;twat good by enoperating
lectures. Wiry not undertake them on a great scale ? Yon
can reconcile the nation of the management of estates by •
government commission. What did you do with the for-
feited estates after lie rebellion of 1745 7 You took the
whole of the forfeited estates, and appointed a COlnnlial4ll
for their maasgement—a very cumbersome commission.
There were heads of courts, and persons of a different cl.sst

Irom those, whom I would recommenr—i—y_
trustees for the management of these euktii:
were subject to very heavy incumbrarau yt
not a simple forfeiture of the estate
0.
; um,
heavy snortgswes and other charges. The Unquiet/1,4I
reared to pay of the m
main rtgages. The act is the 23th 7
6.17
cap. 41. The question is whether this cossaurrisiN
be useful in promoting tho transfer of property.
advise no harsh proceeding in that respect, I see uu L7l
tags in throwing on theistt an immonse quantity
party to depress it ; the question is whootheryou""
not facilitate the voluntary transfer of the plumy ILIn
ehoan you the condition of these encumbered esteem Ll' year you passed en act, the object of which was to No:2
the transfer of such estates. You gave pi„ :".1
the owners to sell. Yon gave poi" 1; I
single encumbrancer to sell with the consent la rLII
Court of Chanctrv. You adopted the pawl,'"
Cot I greatly fear the You adopted
of your ..7:2
is so cumbrous that you will not be able to ftrr-rjr"
(Rear.) I am convinced that if you do rely on ohs 4t
brow' proms of the Court of Chancery, you willastillb
effect to your own scheme. I know the danger of fa
with these established right,. I know how easy it is ti
professional men to flee the advantage of int:fleeing
capital; and that they are apt, in pursuing that objett.—k
disregard vested rights I wish to confine myself as se
principle within the limits which have been saunas* 6, the highest equity lawyers. Ths Crianal!oe, og
ee3
the highest authorities in matters relating to equity jattui
tion, need these words str to Irish es rates, and ea to
cipbe of facilitating theiar ansfer tholes*
Unfortunately for Ireland. the landed property them, 4,
extent, was in a situation not only detrimental to those, etio
interest in the land, bat aim most is to the canatem,
large. A very large portion of it wee heavily encumbered byarl.
e gages, charges, and other interests ; so that the
could hardly be ridden ham any estate in the land at alt. whet rile. was really the owner of an estate, be had both the means steZ
motive for improving it ; but it was impossible for a landlord
income arising flan his landed estate was intercepted by
end other charges, to discharge those duties which a landiort 67.11 discharge. This woe a most infamous state of Unmet,
Another lord chancellor—an Irish lord clusedlor ...
Lord Campbell—gives this account of the tenure of Iridtpo.
party; "Titles are in Ireland in a moot deplorable our.
the registers are exceedingly bad, and indeed of eleeotu
titles, and making them more ceetain, they A ,cerium akkh;
them in inextricable confusion." Then Lord Liao*
the Muter of the Rolls, says:
The interference in each a case as the present is of the am tat
and character as all the other legislative interferences with peak
property foe public pureness, and bemuse this interference Wok*
to as.oure the payment of debts, or the performance of mega
tion, which would not otherwise be performed. It is not alit
somewhat antrabjecte than the interfererm with prinei."
petty and ct which is authorical by acts for railways, dee*,
other public works.
That II the principle on which these eminent legal auutui,
ties untended that you might, without any violation of say
equitable rule, permit the transfer of these Potato. Y.'
attempted last session—you brought in a bill for halihdiat
the transfer. I have the greatest doubt uto the efileryd
that bill. I very much fear it will not be effectual; saaur
fears are confirmed by the remarks on it by one altos aid;
rities to which I have just reerred, vie., the Muter d
ite
Rolls. That noble and learned lord says:
ta I entertain considerable doubt whether the notion, imbi,
provided by the commons to prevent salts for less than their wiry are not only more than are seesaws to effict their object, io
striegent as to impair the efficacy of the additional moons vhin ea
amendmends are intended to provide." The noble ierd, yea mem
speaks with the authority of a master. (Hear.) "Ouidorhe tal
caveats, the notices (sometimes difficult, if not impoullists
the volustions, the averaging to ,'apse before 'perfect arl allepsu.
able title can be obtained, the liabilities 1.1 hr broaches of MK et
the powers given to redeem, It is manifest that the obstacles a ale
under these provisions are very great. Perhaps they may, lair
emanation, be found so great—in many eases where there is eamega
able °mintiest-ion—as to make the additional process i
and to leave to hien who desires to have the benefit oiretitt
particular mode of obtaining it which !rust first provided hymn
lordship!.

I would not say One word inconsistent with gnat
for the Lord Chancellor, but the Master of the Rots earth
new process may
be Ineffectual, and you must resents*,
benefit you originally contemplated. I will at last rise I
the present Lord Chancellor for an account of that balk
This is the noble and learned lord's opinion. Rs ma •.1
have been myself familiar with the practice of the Could
Chancery for many years put. I well know the peg
benefit which it confers upon the public; but, at the sum
time, I must own that I would not willingly enter this
court as a saltor." (" Hear," and a laugh.) Tbe bed
Chancellor is not unwilling to enter the Court of Clasen
as Lord Chancellor, but he is unwilling t, enter Massy
other capacity—(a laugh)—and he adds, " nor would let
vise any of my friends to do so if they could with props*,
keep out of it." (Cheers and laughter.) The Muter de&
Rolls prophecies that the new and supposed simple proem
for the purpose of facilitating the transfer of property toil
be totally ineffectual, that you will bo driven to the Could
Chancery ; and the Lord Chancellor tells you he vest
neither go into the Court of Chancery himself se s
suitor nor would he advise any fri, nd he Las to go iato it
(Hear.) If you admit the principle that it is for the be
of all parties that there should be some simple proms it
facilitating the transfer, why are we to be deterred by thick-
emery of the courts of equity from effecting that great objsia
At that time, not being afraid of the Court of Choosey,
you enabled the treasury to lend money on the security d
the estate. It wee one of the best acts ever passed by tas
legislature—in fact, I am perfectly astonished at its gleam
through both houses of parliament. (Laughter.) I belles
I see neer me the gentleman who prophesied the fail= d
the act of last year ; but by the 10 & 11 Vie., min
may be advanced for the improvement of the estate, BOP
withstanding all its incumbrances and all its compliestsi
tenures of head landlord and interm,diate landlord. Toeing
that if all thus parties had to he called upon for theirs:mut
the thing could never be hoped for. (Hear, hear.) Thero
fore, you provided that notices should be served opal in-
tereided parties, who might object if they thought proper,
and Mr. Kennedy, the paymaster of civil services, us is
decide es to whether these objections were idle or Ur&
want. He was to lend the money notwithstanding all the
complicated tenures. (Hear, hear.) By the mode of sup
runt provided in this act a rent charge is to be fixed cab
estate, with reversionary interest. Supposing the rut
charge not to be paid in two years, how did the ministate(
the crown provide that the money should be mowed?
Did they say, that in case of sale no elegise
title should be given for five years? No, tbb
w s the way in which the crown recovered the used
of rent charge ; " The paymaster of civil services is cm
such rent charge shall have been in arum' for two Pais
may apply in a summary manner to the Court of Chantal
for en order to sell a eompetent portion of the lands, sada
Court of Chancery shall authorise him, without hither
process, writ, or other proceeding, to raise by means of .15
the necesairry amount, the surplus, if any, to ho paid to tbs
owner of the lands, or to the accountant-general of the
Court of Chancery, for the benefit of all parties interred.
The purchaser shall not be bound to see to the, applicaticad
the money, and any conveyance executed by the pay-
master shall be binding and conclusive, and convoy
all right and title." (Hear, hear.) That was the way 1
which you then solved the difficulties respecting title sad
conveyance. (Hear, hear.) The paymaster said to the
Lord Chancellor, " here is an arrear of two years due." The
Lord Chancellor issues an order compelling a rte, end the
paymaster gives a title against all the world to the par'
chaser, who is to have nothing at all to say to the applica-
tion f the money. Why not apply the same rule to All
estate upon which great arrears of poor-rate have mesas
lated ? (Loud cries of " hear, hear.") I beg to call the
noble lord's (Lord J. Russell) attention particularly to
this point. The noble lord proposed that the anus
on certain estates should be remitted. Now I do
hope that those arrears will not be remittsd,
(Hear, hear) The time is fast coming when ve
must know whether legal obligations upon estates shall is
fulfilled err not. (Hear, hest.) If the poor-rate be in snug
on an estate, I do not see why the estate should not pay the
arrear, and if it be not paid, why a portion of the ea*
should not be sold for its liquidation. (Hear, bear.) Noe
de that. Enable the commissioners to sell such parties/
shall be sufficient to pay off the arresr of the poor-ruts, rd
then enable the commissioners to give to the purchaser a des
against all the world, the latter having nothing to do mite&
application of the money, and the Court of Chancery WIT'
mg the surplus to the benefit of reversionary intermit sad
incumbraneers, and then you will have the was
of at once releasing a certain Quantity of land in taut
and of inviting new capital for iti cultivation. (Hear,lsearl
Bat let your process be simple and your title perfectly seam
(lieu, hear.) The poor rate is a prior lien on the lad
fay other • there is no injustice in it. By the laws re
have passed it is the first lien, end consequently you her
perfect right to release a portion of the estate from the in"
cumbrance, and then take the course I recommend. Wife
capital andenterprioe, invite small proprietors, don't tusk
the estate from one insolvent to another, for then year 1611_?
doing no good. (Hear, hear.) But, under these comma
sions, sell the land at a profit ; do not offer it for sea
at once err in large quantities, so as to node
it a drug upon the markets, but do it in such a manner as
shall attract small proprietors and enable them to flair
with security the example of the young Lancashirs nun who
cultivates his vegetables and writes home to his friends 11
there is no better land anwhere than in the est
__l°°'
land. (Hear, hear.) I think that such an artalleim"
would lead in many uses to an amicable transfer. I ellowt
conceive that the owners of incumbered estate% Ilw
menaced by the Court of Chancery, would not be Phoid at
nseiawhichwouldinasimplemannerridthemof their ingot
brimless, I cannot doubt but that there would be muchofsast
_
table transfer under this process; and then if you have thelse
I believe you will find not only individuals but compsnise fit
this metropolis disposed to follow the example of the L.:
companies in the reign of James I.—lees, perhaps, from,
hope of gain, than the desire of making character by tale
•
toting the improvement of Ireland—l do believe that sue
Igreat company would soon be found. (Hear, heir) Sat
age airy opinions—taking a connected view of the whole leo'
least. Thos consideration of how we can further aerie 111!
111•118117, by drainage, by local improvements, by outline at"'
mirk by facilitating the construction of piers for the so'
commodstion of the fisheries, by promoting, under sound regr
lotions, emigration, not however interfering with voluntary
emigrations, will, of eosins, form part of the plan • but,
above all things, address yourselves to the main quest od
facilitating the transfer of property from insolvent to solvent
proprietor& (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Direct 71"
whole attention to these points, abandoning the present nos'
jurious system of giving gratuitous relief, whether in es'
change for labour or not. (Hear, hear.) And reverting
gradually, without loss of life—providing for the destitute
when provision is inevitable—but reverting gradually to to,
wiser principle of the act of 1838, re-establishing ths autitinelleo
local guardians instead of those now in power, and Wl'
tuting the only effectual test, the workhouse test of Pool_
and &Imitation. (Hear.) Sir, I can with truth say that I have
pro these suggestions, particularly in so far as refill..
the transfer of property with the utmost hesitation. 17
an unprofessional man, but I am deeply sensible of the !le,
unity there is of some means of cutting the gordisa keg