The Express.
London, England, 1851-06-05 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.--.WEDNESIOAV, ICNN 4.
The Srmaan task the chair shortly after 12 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Clerkenwell Improvemeot (transfer of powers to the
Corporation of Loaded, 40 Bill wm road a third time and
rmed.
Leine AMIND)11M111 CONMDIAND AND Amman 10.—
Donk, Impremment Ball ; Great Northern
Miffellialmintillamst (No. 1) Bill; Harwich Improvement,
tasazariallftractilleid,Sitellieultieltothewritamay Bill ;
srasoilysti
Wales (No. I) Bill.
/Orogen SN ASIDIDND BIALA AOILSID 10.--Cepper
Miners to ],gland Company Bill; Dublin, Deadens', sad
MathfeeMata Railway Waterford and Liimerisk
Railway Bill; Waterford, Wesford, Wicklow, and Dublin
Railway Bill; Whig Bridge and Road Bill.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
NEW MEMBER.
Mr. Dawns took the oaths sad his seat on his election for
Cie Ids of Wight, in the room of Mr. Simeon.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
Taloa oN Knowbooos.—For the abolition of by Mr.
IBERNAL, from Rochester sad Chatham.
Cumin Couars.—For the extension of, by Mr. PUOH,
Arm Newtown, Montgomeryshire.
Farm. Acmaitsitim.—Against, by Mr. DUNCAN and
Lord J. STUART, from places is Scotland; by Mr.
CHRISTOPHER, from Lincoln.
Rectum terti".ll TITANS BILL.—Is Smear of, by Lord
J. STUART, from Argjleshire ; Mr. DUNCAN, from
lefiabilante of Cllanamis, in the county of Forfar.
Kedge Doane. —Astiast, by Mr. PILKINOTON (6),
gam belependent Coogregetions is Blackburn, Darweu,
Agerieggira,"&c.
Ten Cara or GOOD Hors.—By Mr. ADDERLET (10),
IdIN the Cape, for representative constitution.
• SOUTH AFRICAN COLONIES.
Mr.` ADDERLET said he bad several petitions to m-
ama from ten dilfcrent municipalities In Owe egad"
raying for the form of constitution midi for bens wir
nailed Mem b the imperial government. N. 11*Idt
ever, before eoiug to Lave the *aim M the wow as
lie whether be cn l l properly prmeat Mom raises under
glreumstames which Lad arum. Ilse brama membl be
aware probably that paper. had rosently bona hid the
*Me coataining a cie.patch num the govenow of thine
Molonies representing lliat thenigntayedeto =no
...I 414 not
Eitl4laad'been got up by the fa a semi
_ proper maser by rrsons cemmending see dad
did WA reprearot the peneae they pmpssted to re-
'reseal. Whet he wished to dam was whether
with such repremotati. su from the governor of the
felony is refi.rencii to these petitions he should not
evehject himself to animadversion if be presented these peti-
Moss without some previous inquiry as to their genuine-
mew. Ile believed he could prove that they were genuine
Cy 'valence now is Loud's, and in the course of two or
Vireo days, provided a committee were appointed fur the
The SPEAK RR thought the boa. gentleman quite right
`calling atteatio3 to the circurnatance that there was
home question as to the authenticity of the signatures, hut
di he hail made iaguirrea end wee satisfied himself that the
Mgastures were (music's, he would be perfectly justified in
presenting the petitions. (liver)
Mr. ADDERLRY said he had satisfied himself that the
Osmium were genuine, and he then presented the peti.
lies% whisk were ordered to lie upon the table. '1 ho hon.
gentleman gave notice that he should call attention to-
morrow to the allegation of the governor that the pee.
Jima were fictitious and got up for the purpose of deceiving
Ike boom.
REFORM OF PARLIAMENT.
Mr. HUME hied his motion it this subject for Tuesday,
Meth.
METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY.
_

..... _
Mr MOWATT obtained kens to:4t.i.• • MR for the
better supply of water to the m • . This bill was
afterwards broaght in and read a first time.
TIIE NO HOUSE ON TUESDAY.
Sir J. WALMSLEY, in reference to the no house" os
{be envie. evening, complained that sufficient notice of
the Speaker being at prayers had nut been given to those
members who were attending on committees up stain to
Ilmilde them to be in the house in time.
'the SPEAKER had made inquiries whether the bill
bad lwea duly nog and that tke messengers had gone into
Ilbe &Cereal committee room to summon the members,
both of which he wee informed had been done at the
proper time.
Mr lIUME admitted that the usual announcement that
Qu Speaker was at prayers had been male. but owing to
Ohe distaste between the committee reins and the house it
eras impossible fur members to obey the summons with suet-
*lent rapidity to mere u house. Ile suggested that until
they gut into the new house a longer notice should be
Given.
Fir R. INGLIS observed, that four years ago the house
bad the advantage of the electric telegraph in communicat-
ing with the committees; he saw no reason why it should
out he ...snow. (An hon. memle r, Why nut lay down a
railway."—(A laugh.) Every member, however, ought to
be imbibe house a quarter before four.
Mr. ILWART could say that the messengers had given
notice yesterday in the committee routs, in which he and
the hon. member for Bolton were attending, that the
Speaker was at prayers.
:be J. WALMSLEY hail left the room before the mes-
senger arrived -(" bear, hear," and a laugh)—but before
Boom so kid expressed he. expectation th it an effort would
11.• insole to pr..vi at a house being formed.
GRAILIM remarked that when he first sat in
that house it was the custom of toe Sergeantat-Anns to go
Nand to the committee-ro sou with the mace and summon
th.• members. Perhips that practice might be revived with
*Jeanne?.
Mr. BILOTHERTON bore testimony that ample notice
bad been given on the previous day.
Mf. W. WILLIAMS said that tO or 40 members were
In the lobby when the house was counted, some of whom
"leis 41 him by the coat to prevent his entering the house.
(A laugh)
Mr. S. CRAWFORD thought that they should sesimi-
late the practice of the evening with that of the moruiug
sittings in regard to recalling a house.
Mr. REYNOLDS said there were suffieient members in
the Iphlty at four o'clock to make a house, had there been a
desiie to do so.
Mt. It HERBERT complained that members who sent
*hood thine lumbers preient at four o'clock to the news-
papers did nut take the trouble to be aecirate. His name
ay.mitted in the list published that morning, though be
nes us the house whoa at was counted.
Thl* roneeriatiue then dropped.
SCHOOL ESTABLISHMENTS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Oa the order of the day fur the second reading of this
bill linos read, petitions were presented in favour of the
bat Ey Mr. DUNCAN, from Dundee and peefaresire ; Sir 1.
M'TAGGART, from Wigan; Mr. J. B. SMITH, from Kit-
mareoek ; Mr. ALEX. lIASTIK, from Glasgow ; Mr.
btOIJYERIE, from Ayrshire; Mr. SWART, from Duna-
& ,es ; Mr. A Relit BA LD HASTIE, from Paisley. And
eigeinat the lull, by Sir G. CLERK, from the General As-
s, inlay albs church of Scotland ; Mr. LOCKHART, from
Lxnyrk Mr. F. SCOTT, from Itoxburgh ; Mr. F.
; E, from Peebles mad Selkirk; Mr. CHARTE-
NISi from Haddington; and Iik.SMOLLETT, from Dam- ,
bartonahire.
Lord MELGUND, in umnilisi tbe mind reading of the
bill maid, there was a gement Wise its Scotland that the
present means of editeation wen ussoustl to the wants of
She people, sad it was apes* lopertsses that the legisla-
ture should lay down awes_ wawa principle on which
logislatis• Ibis sabbist daellil preessi. At present they
were peseseiblee• amt abed te month system, which
could twit lo probeelivs of wed. It meld be better, he
thought, if instead of sinSe die semasemeet of educe-
Congo the ply tossed, thearlsgiled • distinct legislative
e.easistint se tie subject. ear, bear.) It was the feel-
ing of MI parties is Soothed that swiss legislation was
Noseseary; and it was with the viewer giving effect to that
feeling thaC he had bum* *award this bill,
though be did set peeseres le say that that
w the particular measure tbry desired. (Rear, hear.)
The *suers& amiably, in ISso,esported in favour of ia-
greasing the selarLs of the !fasten, and of having an
4:lrectral supwintendenee. He bad been accused of bring-
-'q forward

Msmem aad the prepaid= was, therefor., tiikt or
Mitst add& bed been mad* by the hon. m for
Qtr. W. J. Fox). A large majori . ted
V
win all IMIL member for Oldham, sad skit .
=MP stya would be easeeskid. •
Ibis bill.,
be he benefit of SoM. Onernment
Moubi sex. Nosion appoint • select committee to =wire
MO flee lib& subject of education in Scotland, and int/0-
am abilamiesmedy any defects in the present system ;
WIN lids billL which was repugnant to the feel-
hipme aretkbuy elf the people of Scotland, upon
them fienniSita it wadi dentsztke present C 01111•11011
Wane a theliljedig OAS* god church of Scotland;
It would Mtn Ile nib et nuns the schoolmasters and
the suporinnineerif the pada when; and it contained
II
me province wisteter lbw snitVs instruction.
Nrt. MR wiresned the semorking that the mean
etuissatieu dedined dr • time when the population d
1 tad was bart:lawd:se, had become pshAlly inn*e
line under the su sem tIICIIIIIIIII et dr amber to le
peseilld fir. T of the Andrew were left within
thseetle of imenction. fissbelan difficulties Mod
in the 1/ff, but it was the duty of the here be
stark In bas aniested—diat et dewing swat
the delesier whishrensiedageneesider enssdisnbelas
pined within the seen if nay member of the
Yr. C. BRUM erred the messes, wbieirtmdieil,
was directly at venom with the whits mil !seines One
pitat Bootlaad.
LORD ADVOCATE thought that this dienseleet
kid bean mdiretive of at least one advaatage, sod that was
the ohMlii of an admission tram all sides of the=
not 'sly that there was largest necessity tar e
mesas of °dated= in Seotlasd, but, farther, that it was
the dusty of the boom to proceed to inquire bow that near,
eity scald be provided for. He did not my that the bill as
it steed, to the details of which he did not pledge himself,
antained a perfectly complete system of education • but he
should support the second reading because it furni;hed the
I ground work of what might become • valuable measure,
and was a contribution towards solving a question which was
every day assuming greater importance. With respect
to the deficiencies of education in Scotland, he be-
lieved that if the curtain could be lifted, the spec-
tate would be appalling. The fact stated by Lord
Melgund, that out of 600,000 children, no provision was
made for the education of 300,000, showed that in 25 years
half the generation would be uneducated. This was •
question, therefore, upon which all minor differences should
les bid ride ; parliament Phould come to the resolution at
WO be de something, and in Scotland there were unusual
tie oniting oil denominations in one general scheme
enallinba sal education. The parochial school system was,
ulna established, a grand scheme; but its founders would l'
be Sob= to dispute the deficiencies which three centuries
led 1111.11• Led in it. There was no reason why the parochial
staldl aft be revised, but there was an amount of
rnoi
mid& lit pain schools could not reach. The
Lord Admen seinined the principle and action
of these eshaels, eentoadin,q that they had gra-
dually deallmok awl
allow the ma ef WA le stand as it did. Ile should,
he said, set of .ti_lllis bill it it was for the exclusion
of religious taides from the sehoob, but he was
no enemy to its exaludea if it could not be combined with
secular tnstruction. Ho thought it would be desirable to
get rid of testa, the effect of which was in many cases to
exclude men who held the same opinions as those who
devised them. It was impossible to be blind to the fact that
the establishment did not number more than half of the
orthodox presbyterians in Scotland. Anything was better,
than standing still. Ignorance could not stand still ; yeasl
after year its evils would multiply, and there was no
greater enemy to social improvement.
Sir R. INfiLIS observed that this was not a question of
minor differences, but of principle, and Lord John Russell
had, on the 22nd of May, voted against the principle of this
bill, which was that of separating religious from secular
ideation. From the earliest times, religion had been the
basis of national education in Scotland, with one interrniadon,
the ill effects of which had been apparent, and Sir Rand
dwelt upon the beneficial raults of the parochial school grams.
The learned lord who had last .pokers, desired to accommo-
date the system to the wants of the present age. But the
want' of the human .Dist were always the conic in every
age—the wants of. the human soul were always those of
religion, and of secular instruction also if the noble lord
but secular instruction sanctified by religion. Was pleased,tt
said in this day that it was of no consequence that
dirietianity should not be taught in the schools of Scotland
'I it had been. Since 1613 and 1616 it was clear that nil-

gion• had been always—with one memorable exception—the
basis of national education in Scotland. The exception
was that in IGGO the act of 1646 and other acts passed in that
parliament were repealed, and the whole people of Scotland
were left for more than a generation without any system of
education being ;provided for them. This appeared to
him conclusive that a system of education founded
on religion which had au largely contributed to form the
national character of Scotland could not be intermitted
without great danger. The hon. baronet here argued
that the national character of Scotland had been steadily

advancing since 1809, and he illustrated his position by th'e
comparatively large number of beggars and vagrants in
England and Ireland during that period, contending that
that fact was a testimony to the moral character of the
Scottish people higher than any European nation could
boast of po-iiesaing. This Scotland owed to her parochial
system. Would they abolish a system that had proved so
etlcient ? Re appealed to the noble lord, and to
the learned lord opposite, to say under what
other system had the great men of Scotland been
educated, and whether that system was to be destroyed
for nu better reasons than those which had been urged by
the hon. member fur Oldham on behalf of England and
Wales and by the noble lord with respect to Scotland. It
had been almost admitted in the course of the discussion,
that it was impossible to unite religious and secular educa-
tion, and the boo. member for Montrose had, if he was not
mistaken, recognised that proposition. Bat to what other
source, he would ask, than the parochial systemof education
bad Scotland been indebted for her historians, her poets, and
the other distinguished men who had adorned her history.
When the noble lord spoke of the enormous mass of the
people left uneducated, and of the 300,000 children ohm-
lately without any education, let him specify the propor-
tion which the 300,000 souls bore to the population of the
great towns in Scotland. (Hear, hear.) Ile (Sir R. Inglis)
did nut deny that there was great deficiency of educauors,
both in the larger towns and in the remote districts of Scot-
land; but what he did deny was, that because such de-
fects existed, therefore they were at liberty, for • vague
generality, to destroy a whole system which had raised
the character of the nation of Scotland above all Europe. '
Mr. M'OREGOR believed that the bill would confer a
great boon on Scotland, and he accepted by the majority of
of right-thinking persons in that part of the kingdom.
Mr. COWAN was satisfied that no country could be
happy or prosperous where the people were not religiously
taught, and therefore opposed the measure.
Mr. CHARTERIS apprehended that the proposed
scheme would prove unsuccessful, and as it was virtually
untried, wished the house, at all events, to delay adopting it
until more time had been allowed for consideration and ex-

perinient.
Lord J. RUSSELL, in reply to Sir R. Inglis,
observed that no two propositions could be more dis-
tinct than thud° of Mr. Eon and Lord Melgund. The
proposal of the honourable member for Oldham was, that
schools should be established for promoting secular instruc-
tion, the words " teenier instruction " being introduced, in
order to provide for the exclusion of religious teaching, and
the giving of secular instruction only in there school, which
were to be supported by parochial assessments levied foe
their maintenance. The bill of my noble friend, so far
from that, states that the boards which he proposes to
establish should take means for promoting education, and
thiesigh he does not specify secular and religious instruction,
1 should understand that the word " education " must in-
itials religious education, and therefore that religious edu-
odes it contemplated by this bill. (Hear, hear.) The
only difficulty which couMsent itself 4 the way of pro-
viding reous instruction Ws measure would be if all
the perie ligil ennualtless be of opinion that religious
inehweilenewilkt NOW he Omni amithat secular instruction
niffigsheshlM hug dewing as we do the opinions
demo ma Ow sentiments of the different
velblensgstles Shea esystry—having heard the IiSSIM.
!INKY wilds gem& es paleiteefreligises dowine, and know-
ing what the Wary of liseined hes hem I cannot doubt
that if thesesimaitties were asesillsbad there would hardly
be • instant. is which secular instruction only would be
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