The Express.
London, England, 1847-03-02 00:00:00

SUPPLY.
. _ _

On the motion of Lorrii.lijesiti., the order of the day
for a committee of supply was read, and oa the question
that the Speeker leave the chair being put,
Mr. HUME said it was not his intention to object to any
I of the items in the army estimates, but he begged to call the
attention of the house to the condition which the country was
in. On a former eveningthe late Chancellor of the Exchequer
noticed the gradual increase which had been made in the
three great establishments—the crmy, the navy, and the
ordnance, and this year each of these was increased to a
greater amount than they had ever been since the year 1822.
No reason had yet been assigned for this increase. Two years
ago the right hon. baronet the member for Tansworth (Sir
R. Peel), said he could not reduce these establishments be-
muse of the China war, and the petition of this country with
the United States. Last year the unsettled state of Ireland
had been assigned as a reason why no reduction could be
made, but he was at a lose to find any peculiarity
which this year required an increase in every one of these
three meat estahlistiments. It appeared to him (Mr. Hume)
th.t they had now come to that Mutation which they were
in in 1828, when the estimates were so large, and the condi-
tion of the country so incapable of bearing the amount, that
the house was obliged to have recourse to a committee of
finance to ascertain the cause of the increase, and it ap
peared to him that such a general inquiry was called for on
the present occasion, when there would only be a surplus of
80,0001. He would not now enter upon a discussion on the
late brevet, further than to say that it had led to
an expense which was uncalled for and indefensible, while
it had not contributed to the efficiency of the service.
The aggregate expense of the army, navy, and ordnance, in
the years 1835, 1836, and 1837, was 43,000,0001., while in the
years 1842, 1843, and 1844, it was 65,000,0001. ; yet a further
increase was now proposed. It was an extraordinary cir-
cumstance that no candidate at the last general election was
. called upon at the hustings to pledge himself to economy.
(Laughter.) Were It not for the extraordinary expenditure
then proposed, many taxes pressing on the industry and
prosperity of the country might have been reduced. He
hoped that a new order of things would commence with the
new parliament.
Sir DE L. EVANS reminded the hon. member for
Montrose, that between 1841 and the present time, the
French government had expended 11,000,0001. on fortifin-
tions. The complaint of the hon. member with regard to
the last election proved that more prudence existed at the
hustings than in some quarters in that house. (Laughter.)
Though generally considered a popular member, he would
be a party to foolish and iiijudicioue reductions, which
would endanger the security of the country.
Lord G. BENTINCK said that though he concurred
with the hon. and gallant member in reference to foolish re-
ductions, he was surprised to find the advocates of free-trade
proposing an increase of the military and naval establish-
ments. They were at one time told that such would be the
effects of free trade that they would be able to rue their
battlements, to lay flat their fortifications, to disband their
army, and to do away with their navy. (Laughter.) As a
protectionist he had never believed in such a result ; but
the disappointment of free-trade expectations would not
induce him, any more than the hon. and gallant officer, to
expos the country to the inroads of foreign nations.
Dr. BOWRING maintained that free trade was inti-
mately connected with peace, and that the extension of
English merchandise would be a better protection than the
increase of the defensive establishments. He believed that
the pulite generally were adverse to the proposed increase
of expenditure.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS regretted that the present govern-
ment bad not followed in the footsteps of Lord Grey and
Lord Melbourne is relation to the naval and 'military esta-
blishments, by whom the expenditure in those departments
was reduced 8,000,0001. below that of the ensuing year. The
hon. Secretary to the Admiralty had stated that there were only
20,000 regular soldiers for the defence of England at the pre-
sent moment. The whole amount of the effective regular force
was 157,789, to which number should be added 10,000 for the
Irish police, and 10,000 for the pensioners, making a total of
177,789. Deducting those who were employed in Ireland
and the colonies, it appeared that there were 70,000 men
remaining for the defence of Great Britain. Taking into
account the London police, the militia, the yeomanry, and
the half-pay officers, he believed that a force could be col-
lected equal to any that could be landed on the English coast
by France, and all the other countries in the world. It was
his intention to propose a reduction to the extent of 20,000
men. The cost of 630 foot-guards iunounted to 105,452/., the cost
of the whole guards amounted to 210,4921., which would sup-
port 6,260 schoolmaster. at 401. a year each, who could be
placed over nearly half the parishes of England and Wales.
If her Majesty were consulted, he had no doubt that she
would consent to such a reduction as would educate upwards
of a million of children. The half-pay pensions of the army
and navy, and the ordnance of both services, amounted to
3,207,0001. They paid several persons who rendered
their country great service in all these departments.
But a great many retired pay who had done the public
no good whatever. What he complained of was the host
of generals who had made their way up in the Foot
Guards. And he had heard from several officers well ac-
quainted with the service, that there were more lieutenant-
colonels of the Foot Guards than of half of the whole
standing army itself. Two-thirds of them worked their
way up by getting themselves placed in the Foot Guards.
He had no objection whatever to their maintaining in a
respectable position the widows and families of those who
had lost their lives in the public service. He proposed the
redaction of 20,000 men, under the belief that the
public service would still be most efficiently pro-
vided for. That reduction ought to be made if
they wished to show a proper regard to the economy of
the present day, when so many of her Majesty's subjects in
the three kingdoms were in the greatest distress.
Mr. BROTHERTON said, that though he agreed with
the hon. gentleman the member for Coventry, he rose to
protest against such an invasion of the rules of parliament as
to discuss a question while the Speaker was in the chair
which ought to be discussed in committee. (Hear, hear.)
There was no chance of coming to a decision on the matter
by means of a division. There was no possibility of their
coming to any result, and the end might be, if they went on
with it, that the Speaker would not leave the chair till 12
o'clock, after which all these matters would be discussed over
again in committee. (Cheers.)
The Brimutz then let the chair, and the house went into
,commits.

Mr. PDX MAULE said that it would be impossible for
him to read such a lecture to his hon. friend, the member
for Coventry, as that given by the hon. member for Buford;
and he hoped that his hon. friend would not quarrel with
him if he stated that it was his opinion that the house was
much indebted to the hon. member for Salford forgiving that
lecture. (Hear.) It certainly would be mods more con-
venient to discus these several points as they may arise on
the several votes to be proposed in committee. With refer-
coos to what fell from the hon. member for Montrose,
who stated that for the preceding year there
was a decrease in the effective service, and an
increase in the non-effective service ; he had only
to state that the hon. gentleman should have borne
in mind that he was an accessory after the fact to that
increase, and that he was one of those who veer as cordi-
ally as any bon. member to the noisier of the dirge
formerly plena to the credit of the perk of 10,100.1
poundage on pensions to the amount amidst sea the sea
effective service was increased. He wed& set maw eater
into the policy of the country on dire ireerre, bet he
would merely ooudae himself to the brim brae Ur and
would proceed to sae the real liaerig etetemnt et the
military affairs of We esestry. H. veer her cr-
eek the convenissen of the ammeletee by
himself immediately to the sereetee beton the
and afterwards allude le Wee reeler of military intamam
of which the oommiten ray be Wire at leaning new
thing. It would appear her the cheese, that the men
bur of awe to be voted la the impepte bat the emialog
year
Resumed to 138,806. The ger ththee rpm her
roe
on airelhetive
pee56wree8.76,22711.1. =WIZ% Merl her that the
✓apid by the SW Lila Oseepsy, areerlag t. 10,4971.
6Traril[proVen aM et tbe Wee amounted to
balance Her Ws Royal Military College
aseseeted to 17,1081. ; =derma the Royal Military Asylum,
268 On the whole a Merles of 8,068,091/. would be