The Express.
London, England, 1847-06-25 00:00:00

I itIS member fee Birmiegbewt, bat to the rest he could a
gia
e. his assent.
PERRAWD said that it was almost a universal rut,
throngtitot the country to emastrimagul persona to
owes late the workbags before mold receive any
relieL (Criss of " no, no.") . nambers mad
" no;" bat ease of them wore chairmen of boards
of guardians, *ad had influence at Someout-lonue, and
therefore wow enabled to induce the oomatiegonen to alter
the raise and regulatlone. But be (Mr. Portend) wished to
elle& to as attack which to-night had been made upon him
by the has, sad learned member for Bath. He wished the
hen. and learned member would speak openly and plainly ;
but too or three sessions ago he bad obtained the protection
of the house, and was now enabled, under its protection, to
make personal attacks with impunity. As to shed CU* of
the medical officre's neglect, he (Mr. Ferrn) wu
to give his name to the Secretary of State, but
ramd was, at the same time, bound to say that
if he supplied the necessary drags for his district,
Witherth Wit of
them would absorb the salary allowed him. espect
to the cue of the woman who had been starved to death, he
was ales prepared to tarnish to the Home Secretary the
name of the coroner who had presided at the inquest, in
order that farther inquiry might he directed.
After a few words from Sir C. Bunnext, which were
wholly inaudible,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied the
accuracy of the assertion, that a. a general rule aged persons
were forced into the workhouse. lie believed that the contrary
was the fact; and he could only say, that at the board of guar-
dians at which he acted personsabove f3oyearsof age were only
ordered into the workhouse when, generally speaking, their
illness or state of health required that better care and attend-
ance which the workhouse afforded, in preference to their
own homes.
Captain PECHELL begged to remind the right hon. the
Chancellor of the Enchequer, that the report of the Andover
U,.ioa Committee negatived his assertion, that the rule was
not stringent. That report showed, that before an appli-
cant who had oome a distance of ten miles to solicit it could
obtain any relief to carry home with him, he was compiled
to do a certain amount of work in the workhouse. la abort,
he was not allowed to carry relief to his family tea masa
distant until he bad performed a certain amount of wo. It. •
Mr. WAKLEY believed that it was a common thing that
relief war denied to aged persons until they consented to
coras within the walls of the workhouse.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER thought the great evils of the
existing poor-law arose from the total want of uniformity I
in carrying it out. In many parts of the country relief wu
given to parties who were neither infirm nos disabled. Ile
thought more discretion ought to be allowed to boards of
guardians ; and if the government were 76.stostiosed to adopt
that principle, he (Dlr. Christopher) support the
addition to the bill of the clitassogod„
remiered the poor
Mr. ET W ALL said that -
law more odious in the provinesalhamthe egormederay labour
enforced on aged and infirm applimalla fa relief, a practice
which had notoriously beim reasefoi to under the raga sys-
tem of administration.
Mr. SPOONER replied, after which
The house divided—For the motion 37
Against it
Lord 0. BENTINCK moved the adjournment of the
house, on the ground that they had to meet at 12 o'clock
this day.
Lord J. RUSSELL said this was a very unusual proceed-
ing, considering that the house had agreed to the third read-
ing of this bill, and that there were several ameadmenta to
introduce.
After a few words from Mr. Balms, Mr. B. Denison, and
Mr. HERIkb
Sir G. GREY said he would not propose the additional
classes, of which he had given notice, if they were likely to
lead to discussion.
Mr. T. Eosteron and Col. StoroOar smoke on the
question of adjournment, after which Lord G. Bentinck
withdrew his motion, on the understanding that Sir 0.
Grey would not press his clauses.
Mr. BORTH WICK then proposed the following dance :
Thu when any two persons, being husband and wife, both of whom
shall be above the age of sixty yew., shall be recalled into any work.
house, to panawice of the provisions of the rid recited sin or of this
act, or of any rule, order, or regulation, of the othuniasioners
appointed by authority of this sok suchtwo persons shall not beams
pelted to live separate and apart from oath other in stub worklarme.
Sir G. GREY said that the object of the clause was already
partially provided for ; and to make it imperative in all
cases would be to inflict a hardship.
Mr. ROEBUCK supported the clause.
Mr. FERRAND questioned the existence of any such
provision as had been alluded to by the right hon. Secretary
for the Home Department.
Mr. HUME hoped the government would consent to the
introduction of the clause.
Mr. Ratibuck, Mr. Fernand, Mr. Hume, Lord G. Ben-
tinek, and Mr. Brotherton supported the proposed clause.
Mr. B. DENISON opposed the chum.
Lord J. RUSSELL was ready to assent to a modification
of the clause, leaving the permission in question discretionary
with the guardians.
Mr. HENLEY supported the clause as it stood.
After an observation from Capt. PecgahL and Dr. Bow-
el/10,
The clause was read a second time, and Lord J. RUSSELL
then proposed, by way of addition to it, words giving a
motion to the guardians.
Mr. BANKES thought it invidious to give to guardians a
discretionary power span this delicate matter, whilst they
were without any discretion in reference to more important
points.
Mr. NE WDEGATE said the resent legislation of the
government had all tended to discretion somewhere—no
responsibility, no real investiture of power. He trusted they
waald consent to act upoa a different system in this case,
sad ikenby confer a real benefit upon the country.
Tiablems then divided
IfooLord J. Russell's amendment 55
Adiebut it 7O-15
The anarwaseement was received with loud cheers.
- -

Sir J. PAMINGTON said it was impossible that, with
any regard for decency or propriety, the proposed regulation
as to separate apartments could be carried into effect. The
law, en at present administered, allowed out-door relief to
aged persons.
Mr. E. ELLICE said he had, quite contrary to his prac-
tice, voted against hie noble friend opposite, his object sn so
doing being that relief might be given to the aged out of the
workhouse. (Hear.) He had voted from a common sense
view of the question.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that if the clause were agreed to,
without the limitation he kad proposed, he was not sure that
it would be attended with the humane effect intended. He
was not lore that relief out of the workhouse was in all eases
desirable for the aged poor, in preference to a provision in
the workhouse. (Hear, hear.; He did not think it expe-
dient to take another division after the decision already pro-
nounced.
After a short conversatios, the clause was read a third
time.
Mr. ETWALL moved the following clause .—" That all
meetings of boards of guardians be opened to the rate-payers
of their respective unions."
Sr G. GREY assented to the proposal, and the clause
was agreed to.
Mr. BANKES proposed a clause to the effect that six
months after the pasting of the act all the existing laws and
regulations of the poor-law commissioners should cease and
determine. His object was that every law and regulation
should be the act of the new officers.
Sir G. GREY thought the clause tinneeeuary, on the
ground that the commissioners would be responsible for any
regulations which should continue in force.
Mr. FERRAND thought the government ought to fix
some day on which the exulting rules should terminate.
After a few observations from Mr. HENLEY,
The house divided—For the clause 35
Against it 7l-36
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE moved the insertion of words
having the effect of requiring the secretaries to the new com-
mission to vacate their seats on their appointment.
Sir G. GREY opposed the motion, as a departure from
the usual practice ; and
The house divided—For the motion 32
Agaisuit it

Mr. WAKLEY proposed to limit the operation of the
ad to one instead of five years, that the next parliament
mist decide whether the pleasure ought to be renewed.
fir 0. ORGY opposed the motion, observing that the
bore had already affirmed " five " against an ainendmeut
tins " years, avowedly proposed with the view of
isioriarritbe
Mr. FERRAND asked whethir the president would not
apjsyr kis salary for one year before the amount of that salary
mild be considered by parliament?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
roper time for putting that question would be this day, in
• committee al supply, the first vote in which related to the
lfa pawky tottlikbosst.
gesilis• Ties to a discussion, in which Mr. Dux-
ONES at aMM dm postponement of the bill until it wee
arm* rd Mr. Humor( moved the adjournment of the
bow ; bat the goverament adhering to the answer already
men, Mr. Honor withdrew his motion, and the house
divided on thtitiel It,. WALLEY.

fortheines
Agetnet it
The bill Ikea pima, and the house adjourned at half-past
two o'clock.

ROUSE OF COMMONS.-SEDUCTION AND PROS-
TITUTION SUPPRESSION BILL.

DTVISION au q Ayes, X ; staying farther
iproessalngs on this bUI.
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