The Express.
London, England, 1851-05-21 00:00:00

'country before the period fixed for their punishment had
expired. Lord Grey, no doubt, contemplated that the exile
system might generally be put in practice with regard to "
'the great masa of cmivicts, and that when thy were spread
is a colony they might be free to obtain their own living,
subjected only to the restriction that they should not return
to this country during the time in which they held the con-
ditional pardon. In addition to this despatch, my noble
friend sent the correspondence which had taken place
in this country, which was afterwards published in the
colony: and I may also refer to my own letter, in which I
very plainly stated, while giving expression to the views of
the government, that it was to be implied that the govern-
ment held itself at liberty to modify all its intentions as it
dDiffienicttniepeuwthaibcilri,nmatiteoarnis,etr.
uloctthi,i,:lkoenttbll:,re.:
do not blame Sir W. Denison for that, because the lan-
guage was the language of hope and of inexperience, and I
I mdfoocreetUthnitheeanptrtsSaicthartilcValn.the government had ever contemplated. I
believe I did express myself in terms which I now regret,
and regard as unjustifiable. But, at the mune time, I con-
tend that it conveyed no promise, and no pledge of the go.
vernment, Mill less a pledge binding other governments
which might succeed us, that transportation under ne eir-
cumstances was to be resumed to Van Diemen's Land, or
that Van Diemen's Land was to be constituted an exceptem
in this matter to other colonies. After, however, the d, els-
ration made by Sir W. Denison, and after commenicatiene
hiosfrevsenunindin,gX
; had taken place, and upon the representation of Sir W. lee-
,' ninon himself, when we found he had mistaken the views or
and onsystem
Lion we substituted the system of sending them out on
tickets of leave. In that very despatch, in which
1 choeurvicMesajas. esteyx'islesgwovaesrnal=,:ieter,
Sir William Denison Spoke of the general expects
tion that the old system of transportation would be aban-
doned, he qualified what he said by a statement which the
hon. gentlemau has not read. Sir William Denison sail,
" Under all the circumstances, I think it would be desirable
to carry out the intention mentioned in your lord-
ship's despatch, to discontinue transportation; and lie
added, " and to make every possible arrangement, financial as
' well as administrative, by which the eulonymay provide fir
I the inconvenience that may arise from the change of system:.
Sir William Denison he re referred to the effect,' of the
I sudden abolition of transportation; and he entertained no
! doubt that there would be gnat financial dinisultics,
1 that a great demand for labour would arise, for which there
would be no adequate supply if, suddenly and totally,
transportation was to be abandoned. We also received
from Sir William Denison, subsequent to that period,
statements from time to time of the effects produced by the
suspension of transportation, by which it appeared that the
evils arising from the crowding of convicts had been iii.
minished, and that there was again arising a demand for
labour, for which there was no due supply. We received a
despatch from Sir Wm. Denison, dated June 1848, and laid
on the table of the house in Februar 1819, in
which he calculated that there would be needed In the colony
a supply of from 700 to 5(10 convicts yearly; and it was
thus made out that the new system had been so far sue-
cemful in the colony. Afterwards that demand so tar in-
creased that in the next year Sir William Iknieon gated
that taking everything into consideration, he thought an
annual importation of 1,500 male convicts would not he tee
excessive. We received another despatch in 'amender,
Baia, in which he repeats that 1,500 male convicts riled
annually be received with advantage—iu referent:, to the
opportunities for employment in tho colony, and net
in reference to moral considerations, which rest un en-
tirely different grounds. There is, then, here e vi-
demo that one class of evils following transportation
was removed by the measure of the government, and that
room existed for a short periosl in Van Dictuen's Land for
a limited amount of transportation, in order to supply the
undoubted demands of the labour market. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. Grey then went on to contend that the Iton. hamlet
had exaggerated the actual number of convicts sent to Van
Diemen'. Land; the number of male convicts sent ,into
181 a, exclusively, was but 22,506. Of that number, nomere
than 1,800 had been sent since OWL Last year, it was tree,
a considerable number arrived out—a burger nwelwr than
ought to have been sent, except under circumstances of
pressing necessity. Ile admitted, however, that there em
much reason in the complaints of the colonists, and it was
the intention of the government to give eve:y practical re-
lief to Van Diemen'e Land. 3'11,, bun. baronet had spoken
disparagingly of the mural condition of the convicts under
the new system, but all the evidence of persons preetica4
acquainted with its operation via+ against him. It was net
to be assumed that transportation, carried on under a
totally different form from that established sonic years aso,
must necessarily produce the same evils as hail then
sprung up. In a despatch of Nor., IMO, said Sir (i. Grey.
' Sir Win. lkuison says that Van Diemen',. Land, in either
its mural ur its social relations, will not now suffer in a
' comparison with any of the other Australian colonies :and
lie appeals to all persons acquainted with the past and the
preent condition of the colony to attest the improvement.
In this despatch, just laid on the table, he erclosee
the copy of a letter front an officer of high rank in the ser-
vice of the East India Company, well qualified by his pod•
teen and experience to judge, and who had last year an op- 1
portunity of forming an estimate of the actual condition of
the colony. In another despetch from Sir Wm. Denison,
with which he transmits the address, to the crown from tee 1
bishops and clergy of Van Diemen's Land, he states that in
forwarding this address, he begs it to be understood that
he dues not concur in the general statements which it off a,
that lie retains the views he has expressed in other th.-
vetches, and that he differs materially from the
estimate which those gentlemen have taken of the
moral condition of the colonists, believing that they
in this addrem hail greatly wronged the esleity.
I am not saying that Sir Witham Denison is infelliiee.
All I ask of the house is to weigh his statements as the
statements of an able, intelligent, and experienced officer
in the colony, and to put his representation, fairly against
I the sweeping allegations in the petitions and -addresses
which proceed from persons who do not steak with the
some sense of responsibility. ((Isar, hear.) I sin not even
arguing that all this greatly affects the red question laid
before the house by the hon. gentleman. I admit that it
a ould lie fur the interests of the colonists if the colony could
be made free from these who have been or are 1.011.
%acts. But I believe that they are at Intent
only. suffering front the large accumulation of
convicts of fonneryears; and that the evils of which the
complain do wit arise at all in connection with the email
number now transported to them—those now sent hence
being of a better clams, and going under a new system.
(Bear, hear.) I believe that for many yews, past succes-
sive goverumeats have attempted to meet and to devise the
most efficient measures against these evils; but as long as
transportation remains a punishment which the legislature
insists upon continuing (and this haze question is mixed up .
with the question raised by the hon. Retaken*, it is quite
clear that these evils cannot be altogether removed. (blear.)
The great object of the present government has been the '
dispersion of these convicts, and that is the object which we •
ought always to keep in view ; but we have been thwarted i
—and when I use the word thwarted, I complain of nobody,
fur 1 reepeet and sympathise with theme who desire that no
one tainted with crime shall Ise permitted to Wel on their '
shores—but we have been thwarted and impeded by the
unwillingness, the natural unwillingness, of any of our
colonists to receive convicts, or to co-operate with the go-
vernment in the attempt at the dispersion of convicts.
The right hon. gentleman then Allowed that from Western
Australia, and also front Moreton Bay, the government I
had received accounts which led them to believe that the 1
introduction of convicts into those districts would be at-
tended with the happiest effects, and that there existed the
best possible disposition on the part it f the inhabitants to roe
nave them. Sir 0. Grey concluded as follows : 1 am
far, however, from saying that the colony has not
some ground of complaint, and that the government
ought not to avail themselves of other outlets fur convicts
and relieve Van Diemen's Land from any undue pressure;
and although„l feel with Sir W. Denison that great advan-
tages are derived by the colony from the presence of con-
vict+ under the new system, yet I sempathim wills those •
who desire that the social and moral evils arising from the
presence of them convicts should be removed. It is the
desire of government, without giving any pledge 011 the
subject, such as the present mot' requires, to discontinue
transportation to the colony as fir as possible, consistent
with their public duty. They arc prepared to give due at-
tention to the representations from the colony of Van Die-
men's Land as to the evils arising from the transport of
convicts there, and will endeavour, as I have already said,
to find other outlets, so that the colony may be relieved
from the consequences arising from the preemie
of any large number of comparatively undisci-
plined convicts. 'I have called your attention to the
letter of a retired Indian officer, whose statement is of con-
siderable importance, and I hope that hon. members will
read that letter and give due weight to the views which are
there expressed by an unbiassed and intelligent witness.
That officer, before his visit to the colony, was led to believe
that it was in the lowest state of degradation, but the nate%
of a very careful examination on his part completely dis-
appointed the expectations he had previously formed on the
subject. It is highly necessary to the prosperity of Van
Diemen's Land that its character, its social and mural posi-
tion should be properly understood, awl that emigrants may
not be deterred from going to the colony by exeggerated
we
eir Wiheowardolesacwtortwh)it,himpgoriemanycafurestiohn dilffiesetultwie:
statements. (Hear, hear.) I hope that the house will not
by its haaty adoption of the motion of the hon. baronet
em-
barrassments on the government. It is requisite that
anbrVio uto tno roctmheorve,eavnild IPtreuastter thatthathn ethasewwh iiellhbeawndsheeieulti;
flied that it ire the desire of the government to proceed im- l
partially, and endeavour to reconcile the interests of the
colony with the interests of this country in dealing with
this subject. (Hear, hear.) I, therefore, hope that the
house will not accede to the proposition of the hon. baronet
(Sir W. Molcsworth).
Mr. ANSTBY rose, and was addressiag the house upon
the motion, when
An HON. racy here moved that the house be counted,
and there bet only thirty-three members present, the
house acljourne at half-past seven o'clock.
NJ

REPRESENTATION OP WEST NORFOLK.—A requisi-
lion was in course of gnature at Lynn, on Tuesday, call-
ing upon W. liagge, Esq., M.P., and 0. P. Bentinok,
EN., to offer themselves as candidates for this division of
the county whenever a dissolution may take_place.
DEATH OF MAJOR-GENERAL SIR WILLIAM Ha
Risme, H.C.B.—On the 15th instant Sir W. Morison, whe
has eat as member for Clackmannan and Kinross sines
1842, as a liberal, died in town. Sir William Morison
served many years in the Madras Artillery, and had held
several high offices in India, was Commissioner for the
Mysore government, Member of the Supreme Coencil. Pre-
sident of that body, and likewise had been Deputy-Gover-
nor of Bengal. In 1841 he obtained the local rank of Me.
jor-General in the Bast Indies, and in 1348 was nonii-
natod, LCD.