The Express.
London, England, 1851-03-19 00:00:00

hear`—and they would be told that it was noticed nnw, and
why should it •be noticed then? (Hear.) Were they not
now told that they could not deny territorial titles to the
Roman catholic bishops because they had been so long con-
nived of in Ireland, and with regard to the esta-
blishment of the ere of Galway, were they not
told that they hail not protested egainta the
act of the Pope in the creation of that see? Murk the lan-
guage of Cardinal Wiseman in his appeal to the English I
nation. It was now their duty to protest against the ail of
those who had violated the law of nations, and insultingly,
hboatdhvai,saraetuedaettlheed
ltahwe
oQf uteheins,retahlem people,and purl etn,
this
also there had been an usurpation of the functions of the
Queen and parliament. Those who doubted this mus
either not have read or have forgotten the papal brief. Wast
there ever received at any period by soy court or any
sovereign a more imperious, haughty, or °eerie acing decree,
or was there eser delivered to any conquered country, no
edict lee• to be endured ? It was couched in the style of the
decrees ut Napoleon, (we%
mit to it ? If they slid, he could tell them the Queen and
seandatodeerelaigrnec virtually
.i Nnllilpathr;t ialutthe
,nem
thsub-ge
of Hanover
the psople would not. (Order, order.) Welt then, he
would say the crown would not endure it. There was not a
child but knew the history- of Thomas a Becket, and the
claims he simile for dominion and sovereignty, and the arm.
stance and haughtiness with which the church sought to ride
roughelioil over the people. The noble lord then read an
extract from an address of Cardinal Wiseman, in which
he declared the " martyred" St. Thongas to be
his father, his model; and this was signed "Nicho-
las, Bislem of Melipotamus," in 184 K. By this
could be seen the spirit in which these things
were undertaken and executed, and if they did not
withstand it now they would hereafter have to contend
with a great power and a spirit not le. ambitious than
Thome. is &vete. And all this was done without a
%bedew of precedent or right. lie would ask any one to
quote an instance among the old established nations of
Europe which could justify the present movement of the
Pope. If it was said that it was only a mat-
ter of conscience, he would ask what had territorial
titles to do with spiritual development ? Milton spoke pro-
phetically when he said, "Then shall they seek to avail
themselves of mine's, places, and titles, and with these to
attain secular power, though feigning still to act by spiri-
tual means, and, from the present spiritual law:, by carnal
power shall force on every conscience." The hon. mem-
ber for Plymouth said that it*vit allowing these titles, and th.
tinguishing between bishops in a diocese and bislioae of a die
eta:, they were I egielat ing against the natural use oflangusige.
Why, it was the natural use of language to say that the aim
of J eines the Se:emid was James the Third. They ihouhl
legislate against the natural use of anything which intlietid
a eneial wrong on the country, or a moral wrens on any in-
dividual or portion of the hotly politic. (Mar, hear.) 'lid=
bill was c died a persecution and a restraint on liberty of
coneci. ece, but how could that be called A twieseeetionwl.iich
merely forbade a foreign potentate from giving territorial
titles in this country? The hill was not a persecution when
it was fleet introduced, and still less was it so since its muti-
lation by the right lion. gentleman the home Secre-
tary. It was a new plea that territorial titles were
necessary to the development of spiritual liberty.
This was not a plea brought forward during the
passing of the act of 1/429. (Hear, hear.) Again, the
were told that the bill would be inoperative. (Hear, heir.)
Ile freely admitted that the measure in its present form
disappointed many persons who had looked for more strin-
gent neverthele., he still thought the iv-
siduc exceedingly valuable. (Hear, hear.) lle looked
upon it as a solemn, national, and parliaments
' hear
protest against this papal aggression. (Hear, hear.)
It was a record to be entered upon the Statute-
book, that the Pope's recent measures hail been de-
noune.ool by the Queen of England, her nobles, and
her people. (Cheers.) Rim opinion was that an authentic
document of that sort woo absolutely necessary. The pis-
lky of the court of Home. deeply insidious and worldly
wise, was now to familiarise by all possible no a 1.5 the
minds-of the people of this realm—first to the spectacle of
an established, and then of a dominant church (Hear,
hear.) Let any per.oll take up the newspapers of the day:
every week he would SIX' advertisements of new and magni-
ficent sereices in all parts of the town. (Ironical cheers
from the Irish members.) He did not deny the right to
have such services, hut he quoted them in eon-
Hicsion with the papal ageoeseion as a proof that
the great object was to familiarise the minds of
the people with the new order of thine, (Hear,
hear.) M'ere they not struck with th • fmineney
of ceeleeirietleal costumes in the street? Why, they might
sec even the friar in his wild meth occasionally, and soon
they would has e all the pomp of a cardindate and the
pride of a titled hierarchy. Iu such a stets' of thine., he
thought they were bound, fur the guidance of the people,
to place a record on the statute book, that it was all the
work, and done in the behoof of is foreign power—(hear,
hear)—of a foreign power whose dominion we utterly re-
pudiated and abhorred. (Cheers.) There was enoustli in
the manner to excite English indignation,. but they must
look further, they must see what was the real peril of
the ease. There could not le a more dangennts error tle.n
to believe that Rome was changed in character or that else
had IWCOOW harmless and incapable. (Ileac, hear.) She
hail eeperienced many vicissitudes, but her greatest efforts
had always fidloweol her greatest prostration. ll.er history
wits an es idenee of almost superhuman elasticity, springing
into new sigmr utter every repels• and misfortune—
(" hear, hear," and ironical cheers from the Irish mem-
bers)—and sure he was that those who spoke of her power
with the greatest contempt were the likeliest to hesounte
our easiest victims. (Cheers.) Lord Ashley then took a
rapid view of the vicissitudes, the onward action, the un-
tiring energy, and the oppressive domination of the lioniish
See, and urged the danger of affording to it+ spirit of
encroachment the facilities of an organised hierarchy and
eynodical action, which gave to the canon law its force
and also its peril—a law that would alter many oblige-
thins, publie and private, in ',Delete, law, and politics. He
mica:tie:told that the bill before the house was inadequate.
He believed it was. (Hear, hear.) But, being so, he re-
joiced that the people of England knew it, and that they
would ascribe its weakness to the difficulty of coping with
AO wily and tortuous an opponent. (Hear, hear.) They
were now deliberating on that which had battled the wisest
and most powerful monarchs, perplexed successive genera-
tions, and defied all law+ and el • "mui—the oast aril pro-
gress of papal domination. (' Hem., hear," from the Irish
members.) It was difficult, he knew, but not the lees im-
portant, that they eleeild make the attempt how they were
to died with this Protean power which represented in tuns
every form of spiritual, episcopal, and temporal power.
(Hear, hear.) It was spiritual in England, ecelesiumieal in
Spain, and temporal everywhere. (Hear, hear.) It was
democratic in Ireland, despotic in Austria, in Sardinia
it terrified the minister, in Prince it coerced the go-
vernment at the election+, and in Italy they had it at one
time denouncing liberty of conscience as an untenable
dogma, while at :mother they had the Pups' himself declar-
ing that liberty of conscience ought to be guaranteed.
(Hear, hear.) 'Yet this was the hinminge of infallibility.
question was how to deal with this power hn this coun-
try ; but, by the blessing of God, they would deal with it.
'Hear.) They did not confide altogether in legislation ;
hey triaged to the strong conviction and the firm attitude
the people. (Hear.) What was now salted WAR a de•
wive, not a coercive law. Penal laws were objectionable
. principle and ruinous in practice. While Ireland re-
.mined under penal laws the spirit of protestantion in that
country was heavy and asleep ; but the moment they were
removed it ruse up like a giant refreshed, and
was making more converts in a single year than the Roman
entholies would make in England in a century. (" Ilcar,
hear," and cheers.) What then, it might be asked, was
apprehended ? This. A struggle was begin tt tt gin this
country which the youngest man amongst us would not live
to RN: terminated—the great and, perhaps, final conflict of
antagonistic faiths. (Cheers, and cries of " oh.") Did
they doubt this? (Hear.) If so, let them look at the con-
tinent—let them hook at the present state of scene of the
aided empires in the world. (Cheers.) Then they would
see old political sympathies being exchanged fur religions—
then they would see that whatever was emoted to Rome,
' was held to he opposed to conservatism, to order, and to
security, and a thing which must be violently put
down. (Cheers.) Every thing seemed to be pre-
paring for a religious war.—Austria espousing the quarrels
of thsoein Pope,er, was
annther Simon do sulij t
irecent
nliatT
sty in Itoly—
dfint, might ere
big originate another crusade against the Waldensian
Christians. France WAS also supporting papal tyranny in
Rome, and persecuting protestants at home; and she, too,
might seek for political aggrandisement under the pretext
of religion. (Hear, hear.) This realm of England might
stand alone in her resistance, hut whether or no she would
not give way by submission—no, not for an hour. (Hear,
hear.) The issue to the empire no man could feretell, but
for ourselves (said the noble lord), happen what may, we
will steed immovable on the foundations of that immortal
faith which we have neither forgotten nor have nay disposi-
tion to surrender. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. HERBERT said, neither Lord Ashley nor any
other speaker hail attempted to show the connexion between
the dangers anticipated and thehihl that was to provide against
them. If any measure required the almost deliberation,
it was one that involved the whole principle of toleration.
When the bill was first brought in, the noble lord,
in answer to the objection that it was not stringent enough,
referred to the thrive which went to invalidate all grants
and gifts made to these newly-created dignitaries by their
titles, and assured the house that the measure was to be no
sham, and yet afterwards they found that all the stringent
clauses were to he withdrawn. If the right hon. baronet
the Home Secretary was sincere in believing that the 2nd
and 3rd clauses opposed a material objection to theworking
nt the ltoman catholic faith, the government ought also to
give up the first clause for what was the effect
of that clause? The government professed nut to be acting
in opposition to the principles of civil and reliMoue
liberty, yet the find clause of the bill invalidated any docu-
ment testae; from any person taking a religious- title for-
bidden by the act of P42'). Suppose a Roman catholie
bishop signed himself Archiepiseopie Dublinensis—that was
a title not contemplated by that hill—was the ordination of
priests by that person to be illegal, and, if so, were all mar-
riages solemnised by such priests to be illegal and the issue
to be bastards ? as that what was contemplated by the
bill ? He doubted whether there was not something more
than repelling external aggression in such a measure, and
whether it did not interfere with the civil liberties of
this country. But, though this bill prohibited the
title, the Roman catholic bishops would be bishops
notwithstanding. No measure of this kind would
prevent it. They had heard several definitions of
the word toleration, and he had with great pleasure
heard one sentence of toleration from his hon. friend the
member for Oxford University (Sir It. Inglis)—(" hear,
bear," and a laugh)—but that pleasure was moditiood very
much when his hon. friend stated that the opinion tolerated
must he one in which he agreed. (Much laughter.) He
did not think that was the true principle on which Christian

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