The Express.
London, England, 1847-07-01 00:00:00

2

time • •
urse OM Be
le le
1-11-10 •
hostas Minn, la
mho wire the MOM
la mmemaYMed3a lbeimmat.
mil he wired* thoi blies *MI
feel. aaithat that the IMO l ems * of
whose war fir John Beappse, bed se What Wu.
theta( Wks by their.aspeal a Whig Oma babas .the.
be awl the estrlrs is operatics of then Relief AN,
ead.lie maisaw in wbillk bad hem carried into asst
(Hay harp.) Sr,wDfd ad sift to lie boa. Mori lbw
issebbas he nay, their-the elMeisals mailieel
the roped Imadwal asyliteeL *a a guard and
unitersal comere • apse the Make sitatry of Ireland,
many of whom Iniffeabid is he legislature and the
government tamp late east thebenevolent intentions
of both to rellem deellhabb ef het 'poetry. True it
war that the ipsomiams. alma teat they bad been
thwnrted by the war tat by the meurage-
mantel pen abases Ilalbsgsget et Mae bibs km which
they bed a right to meet amen ea& amliaace, and he
sawn. rebus to disarm& the *MEd the report In the
course of the disemstaas If_ he mem ,he (Mr.Labouchere) had tergyeasettylnitiesraintlesd, in the face of
the house, that mildb mtaimei he vindicated the
gentry of hind hem lit mempiecamsere cast gene-
rally apes theabedy, oaths ohm lei be had not denied
that in poileMar path ef that employ pest abuses bed
brim). Maw, -sespe to this ropers,
reVletstel= emseepse a imp al sweeping semen,
=ldheldiligwitily. laths lei }bee the aided, in
is, thaflaesiefeemeittma the dilllmeat
localities lad shwa a wpm yeelbememe of heir anima
The raembma of ahem semen sea bad bees minted eme-
follyo,,,auVlshey wage fryer la avamhers than the re-
lief day beeellosin limb who had the
crielheit open ef themmonanity ; and he
the manage is these gentlemen bad din-
ee• the onerous llualigns they bad undertaken was
areditable to thou. In what way did Sir John Bur-
Fe and his cabmen, therein of the relief commissioners,
of the finance emeatittess which had been 40 selected ?
said : " The linear nominees, composed of from two
to (put genitors a eat • Ida mei 111/11 ex-
ceptions, meet with mad .sail seembing, in
many muteness, men fa Amos by the relief
committees; but they me m* aims mama details
requiring very aneenno
_knowledge of the circum-
stances of mama Mei itestes." HeLumber.)
thought this sintense simmed that the comusiesieson were
anxious to do ins* le these who energetically mated them
in carr)ing into Mid the intentions of the gemernamnt,
sangtiosed as those binniens had been by the logblegare.
It was perfamly awe the Depart stated the comsaissionem had
boas thwashalla thile views in some districts; but this state-
mint at ilea dimimed the anxiety of the commissioners to
evince that so far be. thwarting being the general rule,
they desired it to be aaderstood as the exception to the rule.
Nothing could be mese .hatiaet and clear than the seateres
from the repent seed by Mahon. member for Mallow, that
in " enlarging el thillegisaggemant facts we would beg that
it may be undersign' that. they are clearly exceptions,
although sufficient in essislier te I. deserving of notice, and
to show in puts of the mantry a great want of the principles
necessary for minute self- t" This was not an
incorrect picture of Inland. It me tine that the govern-
moat had met with peat difficulties from the want of ao-
operation upon the yam of the gentry et that country. An
inquiry into the etemacy of this report was asked for by his
hon. friend, with a mew to ascertain who had, and who had
not, done their duty in the emergency which had visited
Ireland. He (Mr. Labouchere) confessed he could not ad-
vise the house to enter upon such an inquiry ; neither could
he state that the government thought it consistent with their
duty, or with public advantage, to enter upon such an in-
vestigation. When he considered the expense, the ill-blood
thar would be engendered, the crimivation and recrimina-
tion, the setting neighbour against neighbour. the priest-
hood against the gentry. and the whole effects that would be
produced upon the whole structure of society in Ire-
land, he thoughtit better to bear with some por-
tion of the abuses which existed, than to embark
upon an inquiry into charges which, though general, applied
no personal implication. An inquiry, he thought, under the
circumstances, would be productive of the most disastrous
consequences ; and stating, as he now did, his conviction
that no affront upon the gentry of Ireland was intended by
the commissioners, he trusted his hon. friend would tuft
think any farther inquiry deniable. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. B. OSBORNE did net think the explanation given
by the right hon. gentleman who hail just sat down, ought to
be satisfactory either to Irish members or to /thy English
member who held property in Ireland. The right hon. gen-
tleman said there were exceptions made in the report which
would give the house and the country, to believe that in
Ireland, in the administration of the funds voted for the
relief of the destitute, there had been gross instances of
that which he could only designate as swindling. (Hear,
hear.) He threw no blame upon them who had argued their
names es commissioners to the report, but he thought a
rigid inquiry ought to be instituted, in order to ascertain
the accuracy of the information upon which their report
had been based.
Mr. D. R. ROSS acquitted Sir John Burgoyne, and thereat
of the commissioners, from any wish to publish the slanders
upon the Irish people, but he thought the parties indirectly
aecuied ought to be exhibited, by further inquiry, to the
just odium of the pen le
.not only of Ireland, but of Eng-
land and Scotland. He believed the report to be true' and
he only desired that the offending parties should be made
known.
Mr. BERNAL said, that as an English member of the
house, bobsed to state that this matter ought not to be se
lightly treated as it had been by the right hon. gentleman
the Seeretary for Ireland. The report he had read, and he
conceived it to be a sweeping and general censure upon the
Irish gentry without exception; and he should support the
hon. baronet the member for Mallow, if be would move for
a full inquiry into all the allegations contained in the report.
Lord CLEMBNTS complained, that whatever errors had
arisen in the administration of the Relief Act were attribu-
table to the government for not having provided is that act
a definitive description of those who were or were not desti-
tute poor; this had been left to the local authorities, and ,
hence the difficulties which had arisen. Again he complained
as he bad on a former occasion, of the constitution of the
Board of Relief Commissioners. Of Sir John Burgoyne he
could only speak in terms of the highest respect, but the
rest of the commissioners bad avocations sufficiently onerous
without these additional duties being heaped upon them.
After a few words from Mr. LABOUCHERI, in expla-
nation,
Mr. AGLIONBY stated that in his judgment not only
an inquiry ought to be instituted into the conduct of the
relief committees, but that those who bad been guilty of
the acts alleged in the report ought to be brought to
punishment. In his view, some of these allegations were so
serious as to demand inquiry. The charge of " actual con-
niiance at the grossest frauds" eitainly could not be passed
over. (Hear, hear.) If such things were done, it was
time to punish ; if magistrates were guilty, why were they
not held up to public odium, and erased from the commis-
sion P Some inquiry was due both to Ireland and England,
and he hoped the government would devise mime means by
which it might take place.
• Lord J. RUSSELL begged the house to consider what
were the facts of the case. A commission had been up •
-
pointed, with Sir John Burgoyne at its head, to whom
merits everybody bore testimooy ; and they bad imposed
upon them meet arduous duties. They reported that they
were in superintendence of a system et relief, which in-
volved the distribution of more than two millions of rations
every day, the greater part gratuitously, and which would
ultimately involve the distribution of about 2,600,000 rations,
They had the superintendence of 1,677 electoral divisions,
which were included in this distribution. In the first in-
stance they had felt it due, both to the government and the
house, to state the obstacles which they found in the per-
formance of their duty. (Hear, hear.) He had seen a great
number of their reports, and thought their conduct had been
most admirable. The obstacles put in their way, in the first
instance, after the passing of the act, by the apathy shown in
many instances, and latterly by particular instances of
abuses had been such, that they. deserved the greatest credit
for struggling to make an efficient and systematic plan of
relief, having such obstacles to encounter. It was due, in
the fir.t instance, to the truth, and in the next to parliament,
who had made so large and extraordinary a provision for the
relief of the destitute,to state whether or not that system had
been carried into operation fairly by those local bodies who
were under their euperintendenee. They did not state that
the whole, or the great body, of the landowners in Ireland,
and those engaged in ielministerieg relief, had abused that
trust and given relief to those who did not need it, to their ,
own dependents, tenants, or servaets ; far from it; for out of
1,677 distriets. they merely stated that there bad beenseveral
cases of abuse. Not only so, but, after making this state-
ment, they went on to say that these were cases of exception,
and were not the general rule. (Hear, hear.) The praise of
the finance committee was general, sad they made no excep-
tions. He believed, from the character of these gentlemen,
who would not lightly give credence to such accusations,
and from various reports which he had seen, that
there lied been several instances of very gross abuse.
(Hear, hear.) Anil it was just, while the house was
informed that the system operated generally beneficially,
and that cases of starvation should be prevented,
that they should likewise have the information that there
were some instances of abuse; and that there hid been
obstacles in the way of making the act more universally
beneficial. But it was mid, if they ventured to say there
were some instances, why not have a general inquiry ? That
remedy would be worse than the evil complained of. A
general inquiry all over Ireland, to ascertain who had be-
haved well, and who hid neglected their duty, would lead
only to to counter-statement, and contradictions ;
in the midst of which it would be difficult to ascertain the
truth in any particular instance.
Sir D. NORREYS said he had not naked for a general in-
• oorrespondence, in
justified the el--

quiry, but merely for extracts from the oorreapoiidence, in
order that It might be seen whether that justified the state-
ment' made is the ',Tort
L Lord J. RUSSET said, if the report had stated the
names of indiridush, or if the information on which it was
founded was made public, there would be complaints from
the parties whore cl.arricters were thus impugned ; they
would naturally seek inquiry; and there must be an inquiry
into a great number of instances. There had already been
an inquiry of 32 days into one single case ; what would be '
the time ocmpied by a number of such inquiries? Any
gonad inquiry would be still more inexpedient. Where the
conduct of any particular magistrate had been complained
of, it woulebe ftt to send an extract Tram the report to that
magistrate, asking hint for his answer, and intimating that
time would be a further inquiry, or action' if that answer
wars not satisfactory. (Hew.) The noble lord, the mem-
ber for Latrine (Lord Clemente), in speaking of the opera-