The Express.
London, England, 1847-12-18 00:00:00

SATURDAY
ties m tie

THE EXPRESS,

o:religions liberty, to induee cede pr.
%rol e demanded of them upon this Oieeeteet.
Mr. NEMO/LOAFS laid themeastitnemey he Terminated
had petitioned the house strongly against this measure, nod
he supported their views. Of all the seeds of danger which
the noble lard opposite bad sown he considered that this
would be the most obnoxious hi its fruits.
Viscount MORPBTIL : I wish to say a few words, and they
shall be a very few words, on the question new before the
house. Ido not desire to enter into the general and obvious
grounds on which the question is based, or on its merits in a
constitutional point of view. Upon that head I find the
speech of my noble friend who opened this debate,
and who is at once the leader of the govern-
ment and tee introducer of this motion, quite
sufficient, and, to my Judgment, perfectly conclude* (hear,
hear); and I may add, that I am quite content, under this
heed, with the speech of the rieht hon. gentlemaa who sea-
demically represents me, the newly-elected member for the
Univenity of Oxford, even though the right hon. gentleman
did not sane toe weh that notice of his inteotion to vote for
the Jews which the hon. member for another university
thinks he ought to have served on his constituents. (A
Laugh.) With respect to the constitutional and political
view of the question, I adopt in the fullest and widest sense
the principle, that when the state requires from any class of
its citizens the performance of those duties and payment of
imposts which the fact of their being citizen* entails upon them,
that then no differences of religious creed or worship
not in themselves leading to practices illegal, or hurt-
ful to the community at large, should operate as
an exclusion from any civil rights, dignities, or enjoyments.
(Cheers.) The other hon. member for the University of Ox-
ford talks to me of Hindoos and Parsecs : the bill be-
fore us only contemplates the relief from Jewish disabilities,
my noble friend, as is the part of a statesman, only dealing
with practical and tangible difficulties—(hear, hear); but I
must say for myself, that I shrink from no length to which
the principle of equality before the law may go—(hear), and
I will not be deterred from following oat that principle con-
sistently by the fear of any such improbable and unnatural
!vault as a large influx of Parsee and Hindoo candidates
for the acceptance of British constituencies. (" Hear," and
a laugh.) My desire on the present occasion is to offer one
or two remarks on what may be more especially considered
the religious view of the question. I confess it is
a point of view which, on ordinary occasions, I
should be loath to introduce into the discussion,
isle the arena of political debate, but in the pre-
sent ease I feel that objections founded on religious views
are alone those, and most constitutionally, which animate
those who oppose the present measure ; for I did not steed
even the testimony of this debate to prove to me that there ,
is no personal felt here to gentlemen of the Jewish
persuasion. (Hear, hear.) Every one bus spoken of then in
terms of kindness and respect--(bear, bear)—and even those
who most strongly oppose thin claims evidently do not
relish as a pleasure, though they feel as a duty, that modified
persecution which they would still keep in forte against
them. (Hear, hear.) I say, then, I think the opposition
new offered partakes in no degree of a personal nature,
founued on the conduct or bearing of the Jews.
(Hear, hear.) I feel, therefore, induced to offer one or
two remark, on the religious pois.t of view of the
subject, because I know that some of those who
are induced kere, from a conviction of what is re-
quired by liberal policy, by enlightened and Christian feel-
ing, by the principle of equality before the law, to support
the emsocipation of the Jews, yet, in the quiet and earnest-
ness of their homes, have misgivings as to the principle of
their complete emancipation. Oa this part of the eubjeet
there is no one I would sooner follow than my n dile friend
the member for Bath, because I am thoroughly convinced of
the sincerity and warmth of his religious opinions and feel-
Mgr. (Hear, hear.) Those who have followed him have I
nobly vindicated my noble friend wbo moved the resolution
now before us from the misrepresentation cast upon him,
most unintentionally I ion sure, by the noble member Ice
Bath, who mentioned my noble friend as contending that
religion had nothing to do with politics, whereas my noble
friend distinctly declared that there should be no politics
which should not for principle be thoroughly imbued with
religion. (Hear, hear.) What my noble friend con-
tended was, that the essential Christianity of this house wee
not constituted or made secure by the form of the oath taken
at the table and would not be impaired by the admiesien
of a few Jewish: gentlemen within the walls of parliament.
It would be strange indeed (continued the noble lord) if the
first Christians did riot think ill& ir religion contaminated by
being members of Caesar's household, that they should be'l
contaminated by the admission of a few Jewish gentlemen
into that house. His noble friend had alluded to the adini e
sion of the Jews in the French legislature ; and the hon.
member for Warwickshire asked if the religious condition of
France was satisfactory. He (Lord Morpeth) believed that
there was more vital religion in France now, both in her
protestant end catholic sections—(oh, oh !)--than there had
been since the Revolution. There was net much blame to be
imputed to the church of France' which the hon. member
for Warwickshire reproached for deserting the state which
had cast her off. With regard to the religious question
with which they had to deal, be believed that the great
Christian canon, that rule that we should do as we would be
done by, embodied ao much of the spirit of Christianity that
it would be conclusive as to the way is which aquestion should
be decided, unless there was some strong counteracting cir-
cumstance or positive precept adduced against it. As far
as he could see, not only the letter but the spirit of the
sacred writings pointed to this as the pervading spirit, un-
less where it was expressly overfilled. It was expressly
laid down that kindness and respect to the ancient people
would be acceptable te our heavenly father, and that neglect
or contumely would be visited with his displeasure—that bless-
ings should be for those that blessed, and curses for those
that caned. And this was instanced by the circumstance
that the prophet who uttered denunciations against Jeru-
salem, yet predicted misfortune to thou nations that de-
spised and persecuted her. Though he (Lord Morpeth)
thought that the speech of the hon. member for Bucking-
hamshire contained sentiments which came gracefully and
boldly from him, he did not concur in what he said with
regard to the general identity between Jews and Christians.
(Hear, hear.) We were certainly bound to consider that
people as the greatest monument of the special in-
terposition and the retributive wrath of Heaven ; and we
should respect them with something of the feeling which
inspired the classical notion, that when the tree was
struck by lightning its trunk was sacred. Our acts of
parliament should not contravene the decrees of providence ;
and there would be no end of evils if we interpreted pro-
phecy instead of obeying the decree. Something bad been
said about the Jews being a separate people, and the hon.
member for Maidstone said that it would net be proper to
admit them into the British parliament, because they were
joint heirs of Palestine. Whether as members they would
devote themselves exclusively to the interests of their consti- '
taints was a question for the constituencies. There were '
some classes among them as disqualified for such reasons,
thaw a race conversant with financial questions, and residing
in the hearts of cities ; nor would Baron Rothschild be a
more unfit representative for the City of London because
his thoughts were directed to Palestine end the Jewish
Sankedsim. He (Lord Morpeth) did not sympathise
with the twenty-eight millions whom they were
told were hardly used if Jews became members of par-
lament. There was Christianity enough to comfort them,
and their units need not feet aggrieved. He would
sot touch on the point that Jews were already sheriffs
and magistrates. It was not because they had so much that
be should eons for this motion. If the Jews had nothing he
mould give them everything. (Hear, hear). He bad read
in a despatch of his noble friend the literately for Fore gn
Affairs some earnest advice tendered to the Sultan, to put all
classes of his subjects, bluasulmans and Christians,Fmnim and
rayah, on an equality, as regards civil rights and privileges.
He had no doubt that similar advice had been tendered by
the King of the French, and by his predecessor, his Most
Christian Majesty, and he thought it admirable ad-
vice to tender to their Mohammedan ally. Such ad-
vice would be offered by the King of the French
with consistency ; but If the house refused to adopt
this motion, and prolonged the exclusion of the Jews, they
gave the Sultan good ground for a rejoinder when suchl ad-
vice was tendered to him. He meld say, I have large classes
of subjects of different religious belief in different parts of
my empire—l have the turbulent Albanian always
in revolt—the Greek, prone to enter into treasonous
correspondence with his emreligioniste; the Meronite,
always disposed to disturb the peace of his empire • but
you have among you a people singularly remarkable for
the peaceableness of their conduct, distinguished for their
loyalty and their charity, conversant with affairs and public
business, and wko have made large contributions to the state,
of vast wealth, and, above all this, while so peaceable, so
orderly, and so charitable, they are but a handful of men, and
to them you continue systematically to refuse a share in your
national representation, and debar them from the rewards
and incitements to industry common to every other class.
He (Lord Morpeth) would may add, that if we shoold ad-
dress such advice to the Sultan, he would have no right to re-
proach us with went of liberality and toleration, and that we
should continue to promulgate liberality and toleration
among all nations, and leave them no ground to be able to
turn round upon us and say, "Go and do thou likewise,"
Viscount DRUMLANRIG said that the question of the
admission of the Jews to parliament was glaringly opposed
to everything connected with a Christian state, country and
government.
Sir H. VERNEY, in supporting the question, said that
he thought that the exclusion of Jew', or any portion of his
fellow-subjects, from that house, or front any powers which
belonged to them, was contrail to every Chzirdem principle.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND (Surrey) roe% snit , as
usual, in so low a tone, that, coupled with the > im-
patience of the house, it was extremely difficult *gee the
purport of the hon. member's observations. N.
however, in the first place, deny that he wee ,••=
by any of the motives attributed to the opponents of the
position by the hon. member for the county of Bete
(Mr. Disraeli) last night—those of old prejudices erm.,
worthy feelings towards the Jewa. There were or mime
ben is that house who had done more or taken Meth let
to become acquainted with that people, not only 1*
in every country in the world, he had, keUeell
that he admired the " Sidonias" quite as much m the. ale-
He
rob"): lord that thfoerreneuxistadellinghtmshzio latreagains. thar"introaTitkuotimeth.
Tharotletheethethionjwiesews,rnaldfyTuskshwarese woulantlewahaelyaddiowthea:ocattingrewowmtklmtsues7(LaugllW against
t 5 of Tub sve. or womea. (Issug ter.)
There Tess many lomega, advocating the righ of wo-
t
mein thell declaring that they stele equal an and all
ether men—(nosed Immhter)-,and who oount
sW hoe letto
same day they timid finala Mary Wart adorn-
is. the Washes with her peeessee ? (Great la ..iste)
Yaw thumb end Ten ea., and teh had bona
nrite, liking the Aar& under his stamp, hid
• don the popish lOW No heat •sid the neneela.
deeleide Wilk lbw minr. Sims new any bei let is theses.
untamable. Int ibey no loafgrionewel=nat flame of
=se g MIR later, the had beet ad-
▪ Ocainesan 7sitewahloisidweneftledeigridevea titeal""liattght hael"maegen-
llama to the @boa., who we imprint to have/ ell the mem.

IECEMBER 18, 1847.

bees, toter:int:l a definition as to the material of which the
present house was comminuted. The right honour-
able • gentleman would be in the position of the
whe, 14 her. 'lamination by counsel,
011 V
nskad what her age was. She replied that she was of
as peeticular age, but of the muse age as other people.
=laughter.) In the same manner, if the right hon. gen-
lathe chile was asked what were the religious opi-
nions of any hon. member, he would be compelled to answer,
"Of the same opinion as the rest of the house." (Loud
I
It had been said, in the course of this debate,
that tide gelatin was the triumph of liberalism, and that
by this proposition it was intended to take away the last
remnant of bigotry from the statute-book. It was a triumph
of liberalism as antagonistic to religion. (Loud cries of
" No, no." answered by ironical cheers.) If that was
doubted, he would remind those who questioned his proposi-
tion that heretofore religion had bound men to man
and man to God, but the alarm was, that to carry out the;
motion would be to free man from every obligation to God.
(Renewed cries of " No, no.") It would enable him to
create his own God according to his own imagination, and
to despise the dostmas of the church.
Lord G. BENTINCK said that he never rose with greater
reluctance or under deeper feelings than on the present occa-
sion, and if he oonsulted his own comfort he would far rather
content himself, as he had done on former occasions, with
giving a silent vote. He, however' could not disguise from
himself that he might be supposed to shrink from his duty
if he contented himself with the mere registry of his vote.
It might be said that the coune he meant to take might
break up the party to which he had the honour to belong.
Still, so far as he himself was concerned, that consideration
would not weigh one iota in the scale. He would submit
to those with whom he acted that he could not per-
mit his principles or his conscience to serve as their
handmaid on the present question. (Hear, hear.)
It might not be in the knowledge o those who
bad been lately elected and returned to this house that this
was not the first occasion upon which the present question
had been discussed. In l&V it was so, and he had voted
with the whips in favour of the admission of Jews into par-
Hama. (Hear, hear.) Nuthing had since arisen either in
the misconduct of the Jews or auy other cause to induce him
to rescind that vote. (Hear, hear.) The question of the
admission of the Jews to political rights was not a novelty—
on the contrary, they had already been admitted to the rights
of electors; they now possessed the power to vote in the elec-
tion of member to serve as legislators in this assembly.
The noble lord would not have been elected in the last par-
liament if 600 Jews had not voted for him. How, then,
could it be said that, if they consented to the noble lord's
proposal, they would now, tor the tint time, be giving legis-
lative power to the Jews ? In 1828 that house sent up the
bill which repealed the Teat and Corporation Acta in a form
which would not have excluded the Jews. The words " upon
the true faith of a Christian " were inserted in that act.
Lord Holland moved their omission, sad the Earl of Win-
chelsea, whoa* high protestantism could not be doubted,
argued that those words would not prevent a Jew from
taking the oat)", any more than the words " upon the true
faith of a Jew" would prevent a Christian. His noble
friend the member for Beth said that Jews elected to offices
under Sir It. Peel's bill were responsible to Christiana
for the due performance of their duty. Surely, if returned
as representatives to that house, they would be equalliael-
sponsible to Christian constituencies. (Hear, hear.)
hie to the entire conduct of the Jews, he asked what prise*
affor'ed of the existence amongst them of any spirit of peens-
lytism ? Most certainly none. He saw sitting under the
gallery that evening one of the wealthiest and most distin-
guished Jews in this country, who was president of no less
than 28 Christian charities; and would they refuse to ouch a
man the power of sitting in a Christian legislature ? He
allude d to Sir Lionel Goldomid, who he believed was a sub-
scriber to every Christian charity in the metropolis. They
were told that this measure would dissatisfy the country,
owing to a deep feeling of antipathy to the Jews. He
knew of no such feeling. Then what was there in
the Jewish race to prevent their sitting in pasiln-
ment —seeing that they were already, by their appointment
as magistrates, entrusted with the liberty of Christians—t,
as in the ease of Baron Rothschild, occupying the podia
of representative of the Queen in an English county, es es
in that of Mr. Salomon', paving the way to the adios of
first magistrate of the City o London ? Mr. Salomon'
would, in the order of thing., be called to the civic chair,
and ex officio become a privy councillor. Would they admit
him to the Privy Council and forbid him to enter that how I
Jews were admitted to the House of Assembly is
Jamaica; and, so far from 'coking to extinguish
Christianity, they had actually burdened themselves with
the payment of 83,0001. a ear ter the support of churches
and schools. (Hear, hear. Never let it be supposed that
the religion of the country would be injured by the admis-
sion to the legislature of men who worshipped the same
God as ourselves. (" Hear, hear," and loud cries of
" Divide.")
Mr. 0. MAHON fully coincided in the justice and
propriety of the proposition of the government, that hence-
forth there should no longer remain in this house or in the
state the stigma consequent upon disqualification on the
ground of religious belief. Let not the hon. member for
Oxforduniverity,whom he valued mid loved so much—(tieur,
and a laugh)—fur the friendship he had evinced to himeelf,
and for his undeviating consistency, suppose that if he had
not been unprotestantised by his contact with him (Mr. 0.
Mahon), a Roman catholic, that there would be any danger
to the Christian character of parliament, because some three
or four Jcwe might come amongst them.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he wished to state the precise
terms of the resolution, which he intended to propose in the
committee. He proposed that protestanta should take the
oath which they now took, ending with the words—" the
true faith of a Christian ;" that the Roman catholic oath
should be left as it now stood; and that the oath far
the Jews should be as near the Roman Mho&
oath as possible. The resolution he intended to
propose, if they went into committee, was as fel-
lows . ' That it is expedient to remove all civil disabilities
at present existing affecting her Majesty's subjects of the
Jewish religion, with like exceptions as are provided fur her
Mojesty's subjects professing the Roman catholic religion."
The bill would be sounded on that resolution, and would be
the name as that proposed by Sir Robert Grant in 18.33. Ha
should not hare added another word but that the hon. sad'
learned gentleman the Recorder of London had stated that
kiselection for the city of London had been obtained by Me)
association with the Baron Rothschild; and that, owing to!
that association, he had brought forward the present men.
sure. He was mistaken in both of those statements. His
opponents in 1841 would not have been disposed to oppose '
hint at the lad election if they had been permitted to name
two gentlemen, as the hon. and learned gentleman might
have seen from a public advertisement; and, in hie (Lord
J. Russell's) position, he should have been better pleased j
if there had been no contest in the City, but the party who
had returned him in 1841 thought they could succeed
in carrying four members, and had named him as
one of the number. So far, however, from the Baron
Rothschild's coming forward being an advantage to him, it
was, on the contrary, a disadvantage—(bear, hear)—and
nothing but the feeling that it was an honour to which he
might fatly aspire, would have prevented him (Lord J.
Russell), when his advice had been asked, from saying
"you had better have nothing to do with it." (Laughter.)
As to his bringing forward this measure in consequence of
that election, the hon. and learned gentleman was also
greatly in error. He had always given his vote, and several
times spoken in favour of the removal of Jewish disabilities ,
and soon after he came into office, in 1846, a deputation
from the Jews had waited on him and asked him if he
was reedy to bring in a measure for their relief. He then
said he would not pledge himself to any form of measure,
or to the particular time for introducing it, but he would
undertake to bring forward a measure on the subject.
(Cheers.) It was only because he thought the authority of I
the hon. and learned gentleman (the Recorder of London)
might mislead the house, that he had considered it neces-
sary tea make the-e observations. (Cheers.)
Ilia house divided—Fee going into committee 263
Against
The house then went into committee, and the resolution
was agreed to.
Sir R. INGLIS said that, after what had taken place, it
was not his intention to proceed to a division on the first
reading, and he should be most unwilling to be a party to
say such proceedings ; but he hoped his noble friend would
give them time to reconsider the measure when it came on
second reading, and allow this Christian country to
pronounce on the violence and almost outrage which the
present bill would perpetrate upon it. (Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said that, if the house allowed him,
he proposed to read the bill a first time on Monday, and
Would not propose the second reading till after the recess.
He proposed to take the second reading on Monday, the 7th
of February, which would allow six weeks for the oonsidera-
tion of its provisions. Hu hon. friend said that this Christian
country ought to mimes an opinion on the Treasure. He
imagined it the hill received the assent of parliament that
the country would be neither more nor less a Christian coun-
try than at present, cemponed as it was of several- millions of
Christiens and 30,000 or 40,000 Jews. (Hear, hear.)
Unless his hon. friend enpelled the Jews, as the lioriscoes
were expelled from Spain, he couldnotincrease the Christian
character of the country. (Hear.)
IRISH DISTRESS.
Major BLACEALL withdrew the motion which stood mg
the paper in his name for a committee to consider the sob.
Jest of Irish distress before the adjournment of the home
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Lard J. RUSSELL stated that he would move the sel.
joarnment of the house on Monday, after moving Mel sisal
reading of the New Zealand Bill.
NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT;
Sir R. INGLIS moved the appointment of the oneniglea
on the new houses of parliament.
Mr. OSBORNE said that the house ought to know some-
thing of the great expenditure of money which had taken
place without any authority from that house. In the
report of 1844 Mr. Barry was charged with having broken
his contract, and laid out large sums for which he had no
aUtIltY
lri Lid PETH hoped that the house would twee to
the motion for the appointment of the committee. The re-
turns which had been moved for would be laid on the table
of the hones on Monday next.
I Lord R. GROSVENOR hoped that awe other member
I would be substituted for him, se he had other committees
to attend to.
Dr. BO WRING thought that there miteald be a dieteafoe
on the subject before the house agreed to the toriedttee.
Mr. MI NES said it was impoinige that a peal not of
art, to be worthy of their ale and sonny, lend be sitcom-
plashed if the artist was reetteileted in to mums or time. He
did not think that any rims or 0000rr7 scald beset of having
produced so great a work MAK in such t non time as it
bad been done by Mr. Sarry,a hear.
Mr. FOSTER asked why's/to had been so much dela
in pretesting thAe
pemlloue, which had been asked for eo'long
ago as tiw ?
Mr. AGLIONI3tBY said it was a matter for parliament,
rather than for the lommittes, to inquire into this matter.

..

He would recommend, therefore, the postponement of the
motion for the committee.
Mr. WAKLEY moved that the debate be adjourned.
Lord MORPETH bad only one word to say. The mem-
ber for Middlesex had said on a former occasion, and had re-
peated tonight, that the expenditure upon the houses had
amounted to a million and a half. Now, lie was authorised
by the architect to my that, whilst his orig nal estimate wee
707,0001., the whole expenditure on the works in that esti-
mate up to the present time amounted to 898,000/.
Mr. B. OS BORN E (vehemently) Excets--excess
Viscount MORPETH—No, not tams. (Hear, hear.)
Lord LINCOLN said the course pursued towards Mr.
Barry was most unfair, ungenerous, and unprecedented, and
especially so towards a professional man, whose livelihood
was dependent upon his reputation. The member for Mid-
dlesex tame down there with en enormous pile of books and
papers, and on the very eve of the close of the house, made
serious charges against Mr. Barry, who, of course, could not
answer them until the house met after ail weeks noses. One
of his charges he would at once repel. Last night
the hon. member charged Mr. Barry with having
conducted works without parliamentary direction, and
with having paid money for them without parliamentary
unction. That charge it was investigated by two committees
in 1844, and was found to be wholly groundless. Every alter-
ation made is the plans had been laid before the Woods and
Forests, and been approved by the commissioners before
being carried into effect. He hoped, that in fairness to Mr.
Barry and all concerned, the matter would be allowed to
rest over until the house met in February.
Mr. AGLIONBY thought, upon the whole, that the noble
lord's suggestion had better be adopted. With respect to
what Lord Morpeth had said, he believed that noble lord
was mistaken. Ile believed the expenditure on the works
had been as much as 1,269,0001., and that that was not the
entire amount spent.
Mr.l3. OSBORNE said he would accede to Lord Lincoln's
suggestion. He disclaimed any intention to attack Mr.
Barry. He attacked the Woods and Forests for negligence
and want of supervision.
Lord MORPETH rejoiced that they had arrived at a so-
lution of the question at last, and he rejoiced also at the un-
equivocal acquittal pronounced by the member for Middle-
sex of Mr. Barry, as far so his honour and character were
concerned. With regard to what was said by Mr. Aglionby,
he shotild be able to prove himself correct when the proper
time arrived. The motion and amendments were then with-
drawn.

CITY OF DUBLIN ELECTION.
Mr. HAMILTON had a petition to present from his
hon. friend Mr. Grogan, a member of that house, complain-
log of the same error in the rec gnizances entered into by
the petitioners against his return, as had occurred in the
ease which had been considered in the early part of the
evening. He gave notice that he should call the attention
of the house to the sulsject on Monday, end more that
the petition be referred to a committee.
The house adjourned at half-poet one.