The Express.
London, England, 1848-03-25 00:00:00

The motion for going into committee of supply was then
agreed to.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY—ORDNANCE
EST MATES.

Col. ANSON said it was new his duty to take a vote for
some portion of the money contemplated for the service of
the ordnance department for the ensuing year. He did not
wish, at that late hour, to raise any discuesion upon these
estimates, and he thought the beat course would be for him
to place in the hands of the chairman the votes which he
proposed to take. It was only proposed to take a portion of
the money un each of the votes, which he thought • more
sorrect way than taking the whole in one sum. He Wet pro.
veva to take • sum of 400,000!. (the gross estimate was
16,2341.) to defray the expenses of "the pay, allowances,
and contingencies of the ordnance military cerps."
Mr. OSBORNE said it was his intention to take some
OICCIAIOTI to these estimates, and wished t,, know whether
he should be able to do so afterwards.
Col. ANSON said he should h .ve hcen very glad to have
entered into this question at teugili ; in cto.asquence
the lateness of the hour, and as the estimates hail been sub-
mitted to a committer, he did not think it necessary- to go
into the details; but ample opportunity would be ',Worded
the hon. member to raise any objections he thought proper,
when the matter came before the house on a future op-
portunity.
Mr. MACKENZIE asked the hon. and pliant gen-
tleman to state the gross sum for which he proposed to take
a vote.
CoL ANSON said it wee 1,503,0001. that was about the
sum that would be required.
The vote was then agreed to.
The following sums were voted, withoupposition
100,0001. (port of a sum of 316,0311.), to dofray the expense
of commissariat said barrack supolies for her Majesty's
forces.
43,0001. (part of 93,5640, for the expense, of the ordnance
office.
On this vote, Mr. OanoRNE said he meant to oppose
the whole of the votes for the civil department ; but on being
assured by the Chancellor of the Exchequer that he would
afterwards have an opportunity of d Aug so, he withdrew
his opposition.
la,oool. (part of 323,2071.), for salaries and expenses of
establishments in the United Kingdom and colonies.
132,0001. (part of 1.5.9,5671), for the weer s of artifici rs
and labourers in the United Kingdom and colinies.
230,0001, (part of 502,5850, fur defrayiog the expense of i
ordnance steres for the land and sca service.
330,000/. (part of 737,5371.), for the expense of works,
buildings, and repairs, at home and abroad.
411,0001. (part of 94,4361.), for the expenses of the *den-
tifie branch.
On this vote—
Mr. MACKENZIE complained that Scotland never had
had fair play in the sum granted for the ordnance survey.
ANSON said that it was now propeacd to spend a
larger sum for that purpose. Last year it hail been aug-
mented to 13,0001. ; but, up to a certain period, no parti-
cular sum bad been stated. Northumberland and all the
northern pert, of England bad the saute reason to complain
as Scotland.
Mr. WYLD said he did not see anything in the estimate
(or the r xpense of the metropolitan survey which bad re-
cently been undertaken by the Board of Ordnance.
Cot. ANSON—It had not la co accurately settled what
amount would be required for the survey of London, but the
matter was under the consideration of the noble lord the
Chief Commissioner of Woods and Forests.
Mr. HENLEY said a great expense would be incurred by
this survey at the national expense ; he wished to know if
the same benefit would be extended to all the towns in the
kingdom.
Lord LINCOLN said, if the expense of the London sur-
vey was to be defrayed out of the site now before the house,
he apprehendeti the areater portion of the money would In
thus alssurbed, and it would be neeetaary, in consequence, to
suspend op' retions in other parts of the country.
Col. ANSON said, if the expense of the London survey
were defrayed out of this vote, it would certainly absorb the
whole ; but touch would depend no the degree of perfection
to which the survey was carried. At present, only six
surveyors and six assistants were employed •, and the whole
expenditure for the first six weeks would be under 1,000/.
It would continue at that rate for some time till the block
plan was formed, then there would be the engriving which
was the great expense. He believed the gent ral expense
would be 4,000!., that of the bloek plan 9.0001. or 10,0001.,
and the engraving perhaps 19,0001. If the work were to he
tarried on rapidly, it would certainly withdraw a great dell
from the other parts of the country. (Hear.) But a great
many large towns had already been surveyed, and plans
made on a scale of fire feet to the mile, which were now in
progress of engraving. All the towns in the country were
not included. whether they should Le s was a question of
expense.
Mr. HUME wanted to know who was to pay for this sur-
vey. He would never have consented to it had he wit un-
derstood that each town. London included, was to be sur-
veyed at its own exper.se.
Colonel ANSON could not say at that moment how the
money was to be paid. That would partly depend on the
House of Commons. Perhaps, us the City of London •Irt, to
benefit by the survey, it would find the money. (Laughter.)
Mr. W YLD did not think there was any need of a new
survey. There was a block survey already in existence, and
it was only necessary to combine the plans in order to take
the levels.
Mr. HUDSON said the question was whether the funds
of the country should be applied to make a survey of the City
of London for sanitary purposes. Ile did nut think the
public money should be applied iv such a way. (Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that a
sum of money had been voted for the general survey of the
country. No order had been given to apply any p rtion of
the money for the purpose of a sanitary survey.
Mr. OSBORNE said that he thought the vote ought to
be postponed, because he perceived that the watchdog of
the Treasury had been asleep for the last half hour.
(Laughter.)
Mr. HUME—Na, no. (Much laughter.)
Mr. OSBORNE thought that it would not be right to
make a survey for London alone at the public expense.
Lord MORPEI'II said that Sir H. De la Becht, and Sir J.
Burgoyne had represented that the so taking of levels in
London could hest be pet formed under the Ordnance Survey.
He did not think there was anything so wrong in asking the
people of the country to do for the City of London what the
City of London was doing for the country. The money had
been voted for general purposes, and he did not think that
he was a•king anything that was wrong in desiring to corn,
mince the survey in London. (Hear, bear.)
Mr. C. I'EARSON said that if they wanted to get this
money out of the pockets of the people, they might well
begin with the City of London. (" Hear, hear," and
laughter.) lie would oppose the vote.
The Earl of LINCOLN thought that if the survey in other
towns was paid for by their inhabitants, it wss somewhat
unfair to apply the public money to make a survey for the
City of London alone. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME said that he had already proposed that the
survey of London should be paid for by a local rate, and nut
out of the general taxes. If his hon. friend (Mr. B. Osborne)
had not b*n asleep he must have heard what he said. (A
lamb.)
Mr. HENLEY said that the plea for the vote of 1,0001
was that it was to be expended on a sanitary survey of Lon-
don, whereas London was excluded from the sanitary bill of
the government. He would not, however, vote for the post-
ponement of the vote.
Lord MORPETH reminded the house that the survey of
London now proceeding was the Ordnance survey, and
obeerved that alter a sum of 200,0001. had been spent on the
survey of Dublin, it would be hard to refuse the same favour
to London.
Mr. CARDWELL said the government had given no
answer to the question of the bon member for Sunderland
as to whether the survey of London was to be defrayed by a
local tax or out of the consolidated fund.
Mr. HUDSON complained that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer never gave a straightforward answer to questions
that were put to him.
The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote was for the sum of 53,0001. to defray the
expenses of the civil and military non-effective service.—
Agreed to.
The house then resumed; and—the chairman having re.
Ported progress—adjourned at half-past one till Monday.

ALLEGED EMBEZZLEMENT OF FUNDs OF THE MAN-
CH ZSTER U NITY OF ODD FELLows.—A division has arisen in
this powerful and numerous body which has led to very great
exeqement. It appears that some time since a large portion
0' the members of the numerous lodges comprised in the
unity, expressed some anxiety to have the society enrolled
ender the Friendly Societies Act. Amongst the opponents
of the proposition was Mr. Radcliffe, corresponding secretary
of the society ; and the opposition of this gentleman was met
by the other parties with a proposition th st, as funds were
in his hands from time to time to a very large amount, it
was desirable a banker should be appoints , and the security
desirable in such cases afforded to the members. It was
hinted as a reason, too, that Mr. Radcliffe was in
the habit of betting ut horse races to a large
amount, and occasionally used the society's money. The
result was that Sir Benjamin Heywood and Co. were
appointed bankers, and the money was lodged at the bank
in the names of a committee. The fund then in the bank
amounted to several thousand pounds. Subsequently the
unity opened a subscription for the relief of the distressed
poor of Ireland, and raised about 1,0001. The committee
were given to understand that this money was lodged in the
bank, and under this impression they subsequently gave to
Mr. Radcliffe, from time to time, cheques on the bank, en-
abling him to draw out sums of money, in the gross amount-
ing to 1,0001., to forward to Ireland. It has since been dis-
cov‘red that he bad never taken the Irish fund to the bank,
and that he used the cheques given him to draw money
from the general fund. Of the money be was to forward to
Ireland, it is said only 5001. has been received there, and
thus he has been accused of embezzling and applying to his
own use 1,500/. An implication was made to the magistrates
for a warrant to arrest him, and on Wednesday, the case
c°oli4 on for hearing, with an array of counsel on
both sides, a long argument took place, and the case lasted
Liz hours. Mr. Radcliffe pleaded that the society was not
enrolled, and could not prosecute ; that if it was, he, being a
member or partner, could not be guilty of embezzling his
Own money ; and, lastly, that he had taken this means of
secunag the funds for the benefit of a portion of the mem-
ber! of the unity opposed to enrolment, and who if the
society was enrolled could not remain members, and still
hold din trust. The magistrates declined to commit for em-
bezzlement, bnt held the defendant over in two heavy
sureties to answer any indictment that may be preferred
Thursday
him at the Liverpool assizes now pending. Oa
o,,,sday there was a great meeti,n; of lodges belonging to
the at which a resolution se as carried strongly con-
!l,euteeng the prosecution, at the head of which is Mr. W. B.
~,.°T:aithi the Grand Muter. Other meetings will probably
r". Plane, and the matter has given rise to very strong
,telingt of exasperation on both aides.