The Express.
London, England, 1853-01-11 00:00:00

THE POOR-LAW BOARD'S PROHIBITORY

OItDER.

A general meeting of eeputations of boards of
guardians and others was held yesterday afternoon, at the
Albion Hotel, Manehs-ster, with a view to taking further
proceedings " to obtain the passing of some law preventing
the Poor-law Board hereafter issuing orders on point. con-
nected with poor law administration which practically make
new law, and greatly intethre with the discretion and in-
dependence of the boards of guardians." Mr. Jco. Hour,
of Stubbylee, near Bacup, chairman of the committee ap-
pointed at a meeting un the 25th October last, at the same
place, presided. Amunest the gentlemen present was Mr.
Cobbett, M.P. for Oldham.
The CHMEWAS, in opening the proceedings, stated that
he had received letters from Mr. Wilson Patten, M.P.,
Mr. Wm. Brown, M.P., Mr. Townley Parker, M.P., Mr.
Jas. Heywood, M.P., and Mr. Miall, M.P., expre.sing
their regret at being unable to be present. Mr. Cheeth4m,
M.P., had promised to attend before the proceedings ter-
minated, if it should be in his power to do so; and Mr.
Cobbett, M.P., was already there. Mr. Brown, in hie
letter, suggested that there was greater probability of the
success of their movement, now that Mr. Baines had suc-
ceeded Sir John Trullope in the chair of the Poor-law
Board.

Mr. ROI:1E1M, attorney, Rochdale, secretary, read the
following report of the committee appointed at the general
meeting of deputations from boards of guardians, rate-
payers, and others, held at the Albion Hotel, Manchester,
the 25th day of October, 18.52, to obtain the revocation of
the order of the Poor-law Board dated 25th August, 1552.
" The committee proceeded, shortly after their appoint-
ment, to discharge the first and principal duty which was
entrustal to them, namely, the selection of a deputation to
wait upon the Poor-law Board, when they fixed upon the
following gentlemen:—Mr. John Holt, Rico?, chairman;
Mr. Samuel Fielden, Todmorden ; Mr. Benj. Hawkridge,
Nottingham; Mr. W. I'. Phillips, Chorlton ; Mr. J. Mid-
dleton, Kingston-upon-Hull ; Mr. Charles Tee, Barnsley;
Mr. Henry Brown, Bradford, Yorkshire; Mr. A. B. \Vim-
penny, Ashton-under.Lyne ; Mr. Matthew Syket, Rudders-
field; Mr. Oswald Dickin, Oldham; Rey. Joshua Fawcett,
' North Bierley, near Bradford ; Rev. Wm. Badnall, West
Derby, Liverpool. The deputation assembled at the King's
Arms, Palace-yard, Westminster, on the evening of Mon-
day, the 22nd of November last, in order to discuss and
arrange the preliminaries of an interview with the Poor-law
Board, which Sir John Trollope, the president, had ap-
pointed for the Wednesday following.
" On the 23rd, the deputation held a conference, at which
they were favoured with the attendance of several members
of parliament, and were also joined by deputations from the
Norwich, Gateshead, and Strand Unions. On the following
day, the 24tb, the interview with the Poor-law Board took
place at Owydyr-house, Whitehall, and the committee con-
sider that they cannot better report this interview than in
the following extract from the Time newspaper of the 25th
of November lot:—' A large deputation, emanat'ng Dem
a meeting held in Manchester on the 25th of October last,
bad an interview by appointment with Sir John Trollope
at the Poor-law Office yesterday, the 24th of November,
1852, fur the purpose 01 requesting the total and immediate
revocation of the prohibitory order issued by the Poor-law
Board on the 25th of August last, on the ground ' that it
can only bear cried out through the sacrifice of all discre-
tion and humanity by boards of guardians, and the sur-
render of all right of control or opinion by the ratepayers.'
" The deputation was introduced by Mr. Heywood. M.P.,
and was accompanied by Mr. Townley Parker, Mr.
John Walter, M.P. Mr. Cobden, M.P., Mr. Hindley, M.P.,
Mr. Ilia, M.P., Viscount Goderich, M.P., Mr. Cbeetham,
M.P., Mr. T. Duncombe, M.P., Mr. Cobbett, M.P., Mr.
llutt, Mr Warner, M.P., Mr. Crawshay
M.P., Mr. Crowley, M.P., Mr. Bright, M.P., Mr. Brown,
M.P. Mr. Clay, M.P. Sir George Goodman, M.P., Mr.
West:head, M.P., Mr. 'H. G. Liddell, M.P., Mr. Milligan,
M.P. The deputation consisted of the fullowipg gentle-
men :—Mr. John Holt, of Stubbylee, ex officio member of
Rochdale Board of Guardians; the Rev. Joshua Fawcett,
of the North Bierley Board of Guardians • Mr. Dickin and
Mr. Little, Oldham ; Mr. Hawkridge, Nottingham; Mr.
Middleton, Hull; Mr. C. Tee, Barni ley ; Mr. Brown,
Bradford; Mr.Wimpenny, Ashton-under-Lyne ; Mr. Sykes,
Huddersfield; Mr. Lewis, Mr. George, and Mr. Fitcher,
Strand Union; Mr. Wicks and Mr. Bailey, Norwich; Mr.
Garbutt and Mr. Wilkinson, Gateshead ; also of Mr. Fiel-
den, Mr. Burdett, Mr. Kay Clegg, and Mr. Roberts. The
deputation represented unions containing upwards of
2,000,000 of population.
" The several gentlemen who addressed Sir John Trol-
lope called his attention to the strong and decided objec-
tions that are felt to the order in various unions with
which they are connected. They also went into consider.
able detail to show the nature of the objections, and the
unsatisfactory and harsh manner in which the various arti-
cles in the order are expected to operate. They complained
greatly of the order interfering so largely with the discre-
tion of boards of gguardians, and assured Sir John Trollope
that, if the order is attempted to be enforced, the feeling
against it is so strong that, after the year of office of the
present elected guardians expires, gentlemen will lot be
found who are willing to accept the duty. Different mem-
bers of the deputation also pointed out how liable to abuse
and how unsatisfactory relief in kind must ever be in large
and populous unions. The deputation also strongly urged
the mischief of, and directed the attention of the
Poor-law Board to the unjust and unnecessary severity
of article 5, which prohibits relief being given to any
able-bodied male person while he is employed for wages or
other hire or remuneration. The deputation also stated the
objections of the boards of guardians to Article 10, which
requires the slightest deviation from any of the preceding
articles to be reported to the Poop-law Board within 15
days, and which, the deputation submitted, was an in,ult-
ing interference with the powers of guardians, and tended
to add to the degrading position in which the other parts of
the order placed them. But the great mid leading objection
urged upon the Poor-law Board was that the whole order
interferes with, and, in short, so totally annihilates the dis-
cretion and independence of guardians, that no intelligent
and independent gentleman will accept the office of guar-
dian if it is entorced.

"Sir John Trollope replied at considerable length to the
observations of the deputation, and commenced by thank-
ing them for the courteous and candid manner in which
they had stated their objections, and asked the deputa-
tion to give the Poor-law Board the same credit as to
the motives by which they were actuated as the members
of the deputation claimed for themselves. Ile called the
attention of the deputation to the fact that there are up-
wards of 600 unions in England and Wales under their
superintendence, and that this order is already in operation
in 500 of them; and that, therefore, this order was not
anything new, and that in these 000 unions the order was
found to work beneficially' both to the rate payer and rate
receiver: that one great object of the order was to teach the
poor habits of self-dependence, and that they might lease
to join benefit clubs, and lay up small sums of money in
savior' banks, in order to provide against temporary de-
pression and other unforeseen casualties. That Article 1
the Poor-law Board would not be unwilling to relax in
cases of hardships; and, as to Article 5, Sir John Trollops
spoke at some length, and referred to the abuses existing,
prior to the Poor-law Amendment Act, of giving relief is
aid of wages ; that it was • subject that had frequently been
discussed in parliament ; and that it was very hard to make
a man very little better off than the person relieved pay
towards the support of the latter. Sir John Trellope,
in answer to observations as to Article 6 being im-
practicable, stated that the Poor-law Board did not
intend the setting up of pauper labour against
independent labour, or that the former should in any way
be brought into competition with the latter; and that their
opinion was that it would be more satisfactory to the poor
man, as well as to the ratepayer, that the former should be
employed and not eat the bread of idleness ; and that the
most suitable employment would be the sweeping of streets
and the preparing of materiels fur repairs of roads. Sir
Jobn Trollope also further explained that Article 10 was
intended to bring the Poor-law Board and boards of guar-
dians into more harmonious working, and to provide for
particular hardships that might arise under the other arti-
cles. That the Poor-law Beard were always ready to hear
and consider applications of all kinds, and that they al-
ways listened and attended to all complaints. That the
complaint of the lowest pauper would not be unattended to,
and that their door was always open.
"In answer toe question from Mr. Cobbett, Sir
John Trollops assured the deputation that boards of guar-
dians should be held harmless to the present time, and that
instructions should be given to the auditors accordingly.
And at the conclusion Sit John Trollops promised that •
writ•en reply should be forwarded to the deputation in the
course of a few days.
" The deputation were not favoured with the promised
reply until the 17th day of December last, and when re-
ceived by their chairmen, it consisted of the substituted
order of the Poor-law Board of the 14th day of December
last, and of the instructional letter accompanying the same,
together with an official letter from Lord Courtenay, their
secretary, to the chairman of the deputation. As both the
substituted order and the instructional letter have been
officially transmitted to each board of guardians, to which
the order relates, the committee consider it 'mammary to
set out the details of these papers in this report.
" The Poor-law Board, however, notwithstanding the
representations made by the deputation, have not repealed
their order of the 25th of August last. This meeting is
therefore called by the committee to proceed to carry set
the resolution of the meeting of the 25th of October last,
which pledged the gentlemen then present, in ease the de-
putation should not succeed in obtaining a total and imme-
diate repeal of that order, in their respective localities, forth-
with to get up petitions to parliament, to pass an act to pre-
vent the Poor-law Board from hereafter issuing orders,
which are new laws, and which take away the discretion
and independence of boards of guardians.
" The committee cannot conclude without directing atten-
tion to the mischievous a• .d unconstitutional nature of this
legislation by boards--What was legal yesterday, becomes
il:egal to-morrow; and that which was deemed right by 411
fair reasoning men becomes, by the issue of • sheet of paper
with a red seal, without public discussion or public control,
a proscribed proceeding. In matters of infinitely less tin-
portance, in order for instance to protect from cruelty or
unnecessary suffering the brute creation, whenever it is
accessary to interfere, the House of Commons proceeds to
consider the question ; a bill is read a first time, and •
sscond time, and fully debated; a committee sits upon its
provisions, and it is read again after numerous ament.inents,
and passed. the wisdom of the House of Peers is after-
wards
called fully to scrutinise the measure, and the bill
undergoes again • similar ordeal; and, Last of a.l, the
Queen has to give her sanction before it becomes law. And
all this, extending perhaps over the space of a six months
session, has to be done before the general law can be altered
in the el ghttst particular. But in reference to cases of
thousands of our fellow creatures who require relief, and to
six hundred poor law unions, e ich containing for its guard,
fans men of station and experience, three officials ite Lon-
don can tit down, and frame an order, sign their names to

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