The Express.
London, England, 1862-06-27 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDEr—TxtruDAT, JrNig 26.
BREACH OR PRPTILEOE.
The LORD ORADOILLOR laviag taken his scat on the
woolsack at a few mintage pest 4 o'clock,
The Duke of RICHMOND moved that William Isaacs,
dark to Mr. Boodle, *elicitor, at Cheltenham, and John
Preston, towactier at Cheltenham (who were in &Mood-
ance at the bar), should attend at the bar at four o'clock
to-morrow (this ), in reference to their conduct, with
regard to the to the petition of Barbera Robinson
sad others of Unbent, presented on the Rob
es
May
bat, praying to he beard by counsel against the said of
The motion wee agreed so.
NEW PEER.
Lord Co %HUN HMS CLIFFORD ei CIIIIDLRIon, signed
the roll o t parliament, and took his mg in the home.
PEITTIONS.
Petitions were presented by Lotd WYNFORD sad Lord
trrtnerx, against the Burial Bill ; and by the Earl of
erAstiont, in favour of obtaining • better provision for the
education of pauper children.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Wes and Brosygarth Roads Bill, and the Trent,
Anaheim*, sod Glrintsby Railway Bill were read a third
time and passed.
EXPLANATION.
Lord BROUGHAM said that, in justice to au redivided
who was not payment during the observations which he made
a few nights ago he wished to state that some friends of
that prim e bad informed him (Lord Brougham) that he
had been misled by accounts which he had beard
respecti the person in question. These gentlemen
Wormedng him (Lord Brougham) that he had never shown
any indieposition to take part in the enterprises of which
he was the instigator. In point of fact he had not done
no; but they said he had been frequently engaged in mili-
tary operations, and had shown any indisposition to
take part in them. He (Lord Brougham) regretted the
conies which bad been taken by this person. He had been
engaged in agitating enterprises which he (Lord Brougham)
considered most prejudicial to the freedom of Italy, which
were calculated to provoke the hostility of Austria, without
obtaining any security for the support of Prance.
EDUCATION OF PAUPER CHILDREN BILL
On the motion of the Earle( Devoe that the house should
go into oommitiree on thin bin, the Esti of SRAPTDOSURY
suggested that the committee he postponed, but the propo-
sition was negatived, and the bill posed through committee.
The New Zealand Bill passed three& committee.
The Public Houses (Scotland) Acts Ameadment Bill, with
atneadmentm, was mad a third time and pe ed.
The Artillery Ranges Hill poised through committee.
Th. Leases, he., by locumbents Restriction Act Amend-
ment Bill was read a third time end passed.
NATIONAL DEFENCES.
The Earl of AIRLIE moved for returns showing how the
loan which parliament authorised to be mood for expendi-
ture on the defames of the kingdom has been appropriated
and expended down to the 31st of March, 1862 ; showing,
under the head of each station, the names of the works
contemplated is each district, and their estimated cost ex-
clusive of artillery armament ; whether any lands have been
purchased for the works in tech district, arid the coot of
such land i whether any contracts have been entered into
for the execution of the works is each district respectively,
and the amount expended thereon to the 31st of March,
1862 ; and of the total amount expended to the 31st of
March, 1862, chargeable to the defence loan for officers.
surveyors, clerks, draughtsmen, and others employed in de-
signing and superintending the works ; showing also whether
the demolition of any previously existing works forms part
of the plan of defence now decided upon ; and if so the date
of the construction of any works to be demolished, together
with their ant, if erected within the last twenty years.
He thought it was putting parliament in • false position
for government to say, " You must object to these works
altogether, or not at AIL" He admitted that there
was some force in the argument, that if a great amount
had been expended on a fortification they ought to
finish it; bet that after all was a question of degree, and
they ought to look to the benefit that would be derived
from the work when it was completed. It they were to
finish a work merely because it bad been begun, there was
no limit to the expenditure that might be locum&
Earl DE GREY and RIPON said two years ago the
question was brought before parliament and fully
and carefully considered. The proposals of the goyim-
ment were opposed, bat there was only • small
minority against them, and that minority diminished
on each suocessive dinsiom The policy of constructing for-
tifications was, therefore, deliberately adopted by parlia-
meat. If his noble friend showed that the invention of iron
vessels gave us a complete immunity from invuion that
policy ought to be abandoned : but if be had failed
to do so, parliament should not retrace those steps which
it had takes, not for the purpose of &arsenal, bat
solely because it considered they were absolutely necessary
for home defence. He had himself the utmost (*national
in the policy they bad adopted, and he hoped they would
not abandon it on light or insufficient grounds. The noble
lord concluded by stating that he had no objection to lay
the returns on the table.
Earl GREY admitted that, as to many of the
works which had been begun, it would be desirable
not to discontinue them. He thought it would be
better to finish the works whenever they were in an
advanced stage of progress. But wherever it was possible
to discontinue the works already begun, he thought it should
be duos, wherever that was possible without prejudice to
their completion at a future day. Bat, above all, he ad-
'Med the government not to embark in any works which
were not already commenced. If their lordships had the
opportunity, and if the House of Commons were to neglect
so proper a protection, he hoped their lordships would in.
sort some stringeot clause to prevent any portion of the
money going to the commencement of any new work.
He (Earl Grey) would not pursue this question further ;
but after the speech of the noble earl (Audio) below
him and the speech of the noble duke, he bad felt himself
justified in expressing the opinion he so strongly felt upon
what Le believed to be one of the most important questions
of the day.
The Duke of SOMERSET defended the system decided
on by the government, which was dictated by • sense of
duty in reference to the defence of the country. It was
not the case that the government bad exceeded the esti-
mates originally laid before parliament for fortifications.
When they determined to build forts at Spithead, they
meant only to lay the foundations, and then to deliberate
as to what was the best class of fort. The government was
proceeding as fast as possible in the construction of iron
ships ; and he was of °piston that the works projected
should go on, adapting them as they proceeded to any im-
provement. which could be shown to be proper, and adding
to their efficiency.
The Duke of CAMBRIDGE said he was sorry to prolong
the discussion, but the solve earl (Grey), his noble Mood,
had wade some observations which, in a military pact of
view, he thought deserved some consideration. Upon the
policy of the government he would not enter; but at the
same One se a member of that house he could not help say-
ing that he entirely concurred in the course which had been
adopted by her Majesty's ministers in this matter. He
thought that considering the difficulties in which this ge-
neral question was involved, the conclusion that had been
arrived at was • very wise one, namely, that the works at
Spithead should be discontinued, but that we should go 00,
an far as we are able to do, completing the works already
commenced. The noble earl, his noble Mend, had
alluded in a military point of view to the
use of the works on Portadown-hill. He could
not but come to the conclusion that if Portadown-
hill was occupied by an enemy. Portsmouth would lie at his
• mercy. Now the question came to this—if we were to bold
• Portelown, how was it to be held? He contended that it
would take far fewer troops to occupy Portsmouth and Ports-
down if the latter was fortified than if it was not. It was
argued, indeed, that those fortifications would render it
necessary to abut up an army in them. But whom would
they shut up? Them* levies „of the country, who would
not in the first instance be fit to take the field. Of mune
if there was to be oo invasion he would willingly concede that
these works would be melees; hut if they contemplated
the possibility of an invasion at all, they must expect it to
come upon us suddenly and at a very short notice. He
maintained that the levies which would he made to meet
the emergency would not at first possess skill or experience
enough to be really useful without the support of forts.
He loal heard it said that it was derogatory to the English
moldier to talk of hie fighting behind walls ; but it was the
tint time he had ever known that it wall derogatory to
make use of seisme and art in order to render a small force
useful and available for the purposes of war. (Cheers.) Yet
such was the argument which, he regretted to say,
had been advanced by a military officer in another
place. (Hear, hear.) To garrison the Portadown forts
it would only be necessary to employ the raw
militia and such volunteers as were not onosidered suffi-
ciently trained to take the field. We should then have an
available form of 10,000 or 20,000 men who would be reedy
to fall on the flank and rear of any enemy who might seek to
attack Loudon. His noble friend mid lie could never see
the lemon for fortifying Dover. But the Doke of Wel
lington always said that I/over was one of the most impor-
tant prints on oar coast for the general deferment the COUll•
D. Not that it was important to protect the harbour of
over, for there was, hi fact, hardly any harbour there to
defend ; hut it was an int:arched camp, and the only in-
trenched camp, or paint d'appaii, we powered atom( a very
low; and vulnerable rout. He maintained that if we had
30,000, or even 20.000 moo, at Portadown sod Dover I
no enemy, supposing that he bad already leaded, could with
' safety move upon London. He contended, therefore, that
Dover and Portadown ware important points in the defence
of the capital itself. Besides, they must remember that at
Dover we had a magnificent landing-stage, where ships of
war might in favourable weather run alongside and die-
embark troop;, so that it would be vary imprudent to
leave such a pont open to the foe. He trusted that he
ahnuld Dever see the day when parliament would vote
5,0001. to blow up the works already there; but
. he hoped that they would rather be completed
and rendered perfectly available. Again, it was said
that we had not artillerymen sufficient to hold
these works. That be denied. We bad a very valuable
body of militia sod volunteer artillery, who, with the as•
sistoice of • few reenter gunners, would be fully competent
to Mon the premised forte. and who would. therefore, leave
the field artillery intact. He bad said that he should like