The Express.
London, England, 1853-04-05 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OP LORDS.—MoriDAT, Avnu. 4.

The LOUD CIWICILLOI took his soot at :5 o'clock.

nal lON PRESENTED.
rt: it WILL4.—By Lord CAMPBELL, tram the pro-
test, magistrates, and town council of Cupar, Fife, corn-
plastang of the complicated state of the I los as to wills where
Bcutchmen I sire property in England, and praying that it
may be resealed.

LAw or SETTLEXENT.—By Lord LYTTELTON. from
EI tilinninster and an.ther place, praying for an amend-
neat of the law of settlenseat and removal of the poor.
AloMlAilloN JILITfi TO PAIILIAIIINT.—By the Bishop
of BXBTEkt, front a place in his diocese, against.

THE CITY DEPUTATION TO THE EMPEROR. OF

THE ORO:NCH.
Lord CAMPBELL wished to put a question, of which
be had givtu notice, to t.oi Secretary for Foreign Affairs, on
a sloileet of great Rational importance. He referred to a
Ws' ement iu the neespeper., that a deputation bad goes
to Paris, and there presented an address to his Imperial
Ms, sty Naleileun the "I used, In the came of the British ua-
t.es.. Ile imputed les blame to soy of those individuals,
ms..y art wh -su he had the pleasure of knowing, and all of
wham were highly respectable; and he had no doubt
th -.r mousses were patriot C and disinterested. But if they
1144 acted w.thnut the authority of their government, be
kyreliende,l they It id been guilty of an offence against the
hew of the land—at all events ageing the law of mamas--
which could not be pass- el over in silence. He btlieved it
was an estolidshed rule that MO/COWS:3 between indepen-
dent nation, could only be carried on through the medium
of ministers or limbo-. e'en appointed by the governments
of the respective countries. This was a rule that had been
ireta'ilaeheel for the purpose of preserving internal tranquil-
lity in every notion, and maintaining peace and amity
among thomatious of the wurld. %%tut had laid down
this rule, tor which he had the authority of
Peoleutfort, and all lis illustrious predecessors. Ile said :
" Nobel's are to treat and hold intercourse with one
another, asi, Wend by reciprocal obligation, to con-
sent to such cummunicatinn. But nations and wee-
tesoks do not treat together immediately. The only
expedient for nations and sovereigns is to communicate
and treat with can other by the agency of pro-
cu7l,ofil or mandataries, of delegate. charged with their
oominande and vested with their powers, that is to say,
puldie Ku. ten. The minister is, in sonic sort, • repre-
*rotates e of a ionise pewee, a person charged with the com-
mute& of that power, and delegated to manage its affairs."
Aecordiag to Vetted it was only such a minister that could
properly inttrfrre in may intercourse between two nations.
**snout trouOliag their lordships with quotelions from
ether jarists, he would refer to what took place in 1791,
when • declaration was scut from England to tl.e Empress
Catherine. At that time there was one party in this country
who thought we were aggrieved by the Hessian go-
ys:assent. and another party who considered that they
were right, and that the English government were to
blame. The party who %lolled to preserve peace sent •
deputation in the person of Mr. Adair, who now survived,
sad could vouch for the truth of his statement. Mr.
Burke in big celebrated pubOcation to the Duke of Port-
land commented with great severity on that proceeding.
He said .—" This proceeding of Mr. Fox does sot (u I
conceive) amount to absolute high treason; Russia, though
on tied terms, not having been then declanedly at war with
th.s kingdom. But such a proceeding is, in law, not very
remote from that offence, and is undoubtedly a must un-
constitutioual act, and an high treasonable mi.ilemeantaar.
The legitimate and sure mode of communication between
this nation and foreign powers is rendered uncertain, pre-
carious, and treacherous, tsy being divided into two chan-
nels, by wh.ch :Deans the hong° powers eon never be
assured of tae real authority or validity of any public
Unsubtle Thie peoceeitieg has given a stroud coun-
tenance and an eucour &ging example to the doctrines
and practices of the revelation and constitutional societies,
and of other mischievous societies of that descrip-
tion, who, without any legal authority, are in
the habit of proposiu4, and, to the but of their
power, of forming leagues and alliances with France."
Now, he appeehendesi on this principle, unless those e.epti-
ties were authorised by the English government, they had
sane mciously violated the law. The eteclareetiou was per-
fectly harmless; and le: concurred in its sentiments, as
'eery loyal subject he helices d did also. He knew uo law
to prevent any section of the Queen's subjects from meeting
and expressing their sentiments on say question whatever;
but this declaration contained no allusion to any ad-
dress to be presented to the Emperor; and he understood
that many of those who signed it did so under the idea that
there the matter ended. Ile considered it a most Munn'
declaration, but one that was quite unnecessary, as he
never remembered • time when there was a more
general concurrence in the sentiments of peace and amity
which it expressed. But after the signing of the
declaration there followed what he held to be a clear viola-
tint of the law, namely, it, presentation by a deputation
from this country to Napoleon 111. seated on his throne and
surrounded by his ministers. That deputation, aceurding
to their own statement, represented the British nation. lie
did not find that the English ambassador was there, or that
L..aactiun had been asked to the step which had been
takeit ; and that being so, he must suppose that Sir James
Duke had been gent over to supersede Lord Cowley, and
bad been invested with the powers of ambassador extraordi-
nary and minister plenipotentiary. At all events, he might
be so regarded from the language he used, RS the represen-
tative of the British people. He said : " Sire,—We bees
the honour to appear before your Majesty for the purpose
of presenting to your Majesty and to the French nation a
declaration from the commercial oommuuity of the metro-
polis of the British empire. We have only to add the ex-
preesioa of oar conviction that this document conveys at the
same tmc • faithful representation of the feelings of the
people of England at large." They express a fervent
hope that under your reign France and England may be
always united," de. His Majesty in his reply said : 'lt
confirms in me the confidence with which the gaol sense of
the English nation has always inspired me." He refers to
the alarm entertained last year, adding : " But the good
sense of a great people cannot be long deceived, and the
step which you now take is a striking proof of this. Like
you I desire peace; and, to make it sure, I wish, like you,
to draw closer the bonds which unite our two countries."
If it had been a deputation from a railway or canal com-
pany asking the concurrence of a foreign government in
their projects, it might not have been objectionable; but
when it related to matters of peace and war, and the
relations of amity between independent countries,
there was decidedly a national character given to
it. It purported, in fret, to be an address
to the French nation from the English nation conveying a
representation of the feelings of the English people at large
as to the relations between the two countries. No doubt
the sentiments it expressed wen such as the great body of
the nation must share, and the answer which it
elicited was also extremely gratifying; but ne-
vertheless, if it were allowed to pass in silence,
he thought such a proceeding would afford •
very dangerous precedent, and lead to transactions fraught
with the greatest peril. He would only remind the noble
lord of the alarm occasioned some years ago, when Mr.
Smith O'Brien and a deputation of Irish sympathiser went
to l'aris to present an address to the then government of
France; and though it might truly be said that the objects
if the present deputation were of a far less objectionable
nature. still the principle that applied to such proceedihxe
was the same. How liable such • deputation were to
made merely the tools of the Stock &hangs. The bolls
were anxious to maintain peace and amity, because that kept
up the price of the fonds; but the bears, whose in-
terest it was to keep down prices, might just as fairly
get up a declaration of • precisely opposite character, the
tendency of which would be to create alarm and lessen put-
lie conddesce. He had no wish to give offence in en
quarter whatever, or to do anything calculated to disturb
the relations of amity at present prevailing between the two
canneries, bat be held a high judicial situation, unconnected
with the government, and as a guardian over the len, he
hilt it to be Media] to pat the gaieties of which he had
rives setiet—emeely, whether the deputation of London
amebas who ware stated to have presented an address to
tike Bawer of the French, as to the relatioos of peace and
war between Fhb events" an France, wen sanctioned is
what they did by her Majesty's goverment ?

The Earl of CLARENDON thought his noble and
learned (rived had attributed more importance to this mat-
ter than it deserved. When be received notice of his inten-
tion to put the gasifies, he did not 'spent to have beard
Vella, Burke, and other high legal authorities quoted, and
to have bees carried bate to transactions which occurred 60
years ye. He was aomewbat surprised that his noble and
learsieu friend, occupying, as he had told them he did, a high
judicial situation, should have declared on such evidence as
that which was before him, that eertaia citisens of Llndon
had not only violated the law, but had all bat committed
high treason. The greater part of kis noble and learned
friend.' statement was, in fact, based on a fallacy, for he
believed he had attributed t s those gentlemen an act which
they had not committed, awl he assumed that they had
been speaking in the name of this nation when they had sot
been doing any such thing. They had done no more than
present an address to his Majesty from certain merchants
and traders of the City of London. He hail no objection to
answer distinctly the two questions of the noble sod learned
lord. la the first place, he begged to assure him that Lord
Cowley had not been in any way superseded by Sir James
Duke—daughter)—and he could also inform him that the
'auction of her Majesty's government had not been given to
th • deputation, and had not been asked. (Hear, hear.) A
highly respectable gentleman with whom he was aeluainted
tilted on him two or three days before the declaration was
carried over to France, and showed it to him. He read
and it certainly appeared to him, as it seemed to have
appeared to the noble and learned lord, to be perfectly
uiloojeetionanle— (hear, bear)—containing simply • record
of opthion such as every right-minded man in this country,
Leling the importance of national peace, and knowing the
feeling meting on the part of this country towards France,
would have no possible objection to sign. lie was told by
the gentleman to whom ht referred that the declaration was
to he presented to the Emperor, and he saw ne objection
ts‘itosidgiag the declaration to ha an expression of the
oeamou of others. He dal not see anything in it that
could It, said to hear a national character beyond its beat
the expression of opinions *bared by everybody. (Hear,
tear) If Le had been ia,ked to instruct the British amber.
sailor to be present whoa the declaration was presented, he
should not have given such instructions ; and, in fact, be
wee not present Whether it wai received by the Emperor
on this throne, or not, he did not know.
Lord CAMPBELL—On his throne, surrouhdel by his
minister'.
lb* Earl of CLARENDON mast say that, as far as he
had heard, the declaration had produced a good
impres-
sion ; but if his opine n had Leen e.1.e;1.• r it Ws-
desirable that any inch adtlrtas *LULL:. 11.%e Le u t.: •