The Express.
London, England, 1849-05-16 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MAY 16, 1849.

the crown NOW Were.
Earl GREY.—I wish the noble lord had adhered to the
Intends& he expressed of abstaining frem a premature sr-
}cosies of °plaint, and from statements which it is difficult
kre me to answer or to pass by in silence. About en hoar
ego I reef ived • despatch from Lord Elgin, and that
despatch, when the house next meets, I shall have greet
satisfaction in laying on the table of the house.
It is a despatch which I think shows that Lord Elgin has
tested throughout v ith his seenstoased judgment, moderation
end good sense, My lords, I have to state to year lordships
that at the data of that despatek which was writhes in much
hate, after the regular mail had been forwarded b way of
Nova Scotia and New Brunswick—the despatets I should
say wee written on the 30th of April, and just arrived in
New York is tims to be forwarded—it appeared that at
the date of that despatch • riot, undoubtedly of a very
aggravated kind, had token place ia Montreal, sad that the
parliament houe had been burnt; but I see no ream at all
to apprehend trsom that despatch that there is the war of
races 'skids the noble lord speaks of. On the contrary, I
have every reason to believe that tranquillity is restored.
For what 1161 taken place I am prepared to take fully that
responsibility which belongs to myself and my colleagues.
There is no rep which has been taken in this affair which I
am not prepared to justify, and which I am not convinced
that parliament, when the facts are fully before them,
will approve. But I most take the liberty of informing
the noble lord that the responsibility of this event, in my
opinion, rests as much with him as with mod other persons
—(" oh," from the opplsition)—for this simple reason,
that there is no doubt, from whet I have seen in the public
newspapers and elsewhere, that it is the account of the pro-
ceeding§ in this house monis time ago, and the expression of
opinions the noble lord, which has contributed in no slight
degree to the violence of party feeling which pro•
veiled in that colony. (" Hear, hear," from the ministerial
side of the house.) Ido trust the noble lord in this house
will remember that there is • responsibility in the members
of the oppaaition, as well as in the members of the administra-
tion. It is a fact which 1 think the noble lord is too mach
in the habit of forgetting. (Rear, hear.)
Lord STANLEY—With regard to the responsi;,lll2
which attaches to members of this house, and to the o
doe, under any circumstances, there never was a gowns-
meat in existencewas so much indebted as that width
I see opposite to me, to the sense which the oppesition enter-
tain of their practical responsibility—(hear, hear)—but
it is no part of the responsibility of a peer in parliament to
hesitate from expressing his conviction of the nature and int-
peaty of • course which the government is punning; and no
iodination or insinuation thrown out by the noble earl will,
at any time, prevent my exercising the liberty of
which is amongst the highest privileges of a member oTtlit
boom. I boll to repeat the question to the noble earl,
namely, has Lord Elgin acted without advice, or on his own
authority ? Or have the noble earl and his ooleagues directed
the step which has now been taken ? And have they any
explanation of the state of the agony. beyond that which is
eontsiaed la the public' papers which they are purred to
au to the house ? The noble earl says he will lay the
despatch of Lord Elgin on the table on Friday next.
The Marquis of asiiNSDOWNE was understood
that the hones did not sit on Thursday.
Lend STANLEY—I will, however, repeat the question
Was Lord o
Elgin left to set upn his own-unsesisted judg-
ment ; or had he advice and instruction frees her Majesty's
government ?
Earl GREY—I can only repeat what I said before. I
Will lay that deviated an the table when the house again
meets, and until that is on the table, it will be inexpedient
for me to enter into any explanations. Until your lordships
have read that despatch it is not for me to say on what points
I have given instruction** Lord Elgin, and whereighave not.
Bat es to the iademnlty bill, I say now what I said • shut
time ago, that I advisedly abstained from giving him any
instructions on that point. I believe the constitution of
Canada and most of our other colonies to be this: that the
governor have general ineructions to guide thus in giving
their anent te, or withholding it from, any bills; that when
bills are tendered to them for acceptance, they are bound to
morose their own judgment, and having so exercised it, they
tressealt those bills with such remarks 118 they may thi
ic
neeemmy to the Secretary pf State, and thereupon her
](sleety
w in council Is advised to approve of or
WWII bills. It has not been my practice,
nee will it be while I hold my present office, to
deport hem this wholesome rule, and give iestructions to
goverecre of colonies to assent to, or dissent from, hills
which are not before me, and the circumstances nader
which such bills have passed are unknown to me. (Bear.)
Lord REDESDALE thought this was a government bills
Six members of the legislative council had been brought In
to pass this bill, and it had only been carried in that bay
by a majority of four. The noble lord was proceeding to dies
sass the general question, when
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE Wilma. and said the
government had no desire to avoid • dismiss. bet es the
queries had been answered, and were Se be le
ea table °a the sit
eject, he beggeillruggest that eh Ilei
not it* time fee discussing it.
BM GREY said the noble lord (R-deritiale) ha hem
seintenned epos a matter of fact. The addition he Mr
legislative council wu entirely Irrespective of this w. e.
long ago as August or Sep:whew the Governor- eesse
wrote to het to say that he thou& h expedient thst on
addition should be made to the etas iii. Eli use Lea
whether certain persons week seethe semi sag thee=
he stet out blank warrants, autlystaai sie
certain gentlemen, if they would accept the efN. Man)

to say

PETITIONS FROM FARMERS IN FAVOUR OF
THE NAVIGATION LAWS.
The Duke of RICHMOND, es yeasting serealasion
the ham agricultural distriam, eviest the et
the mediation laws, esstended that dbe farmers • peso
feet right to petitim es seek • satins. They weyll I
sae, and did not wish to see war gooses invaded b
skips. awl sotwitbgesdng the enervation/ of the
nips
sari ;Ile seeretery foe the canna the other night, the
farmers of Sesser and the labourers of that county, ant le
all other parts of Besse:,
had a perfect tight to petilos
seek a measure es a repeal of the navigation laws.
orri did they treat the lumen ? Would they
mesh Yaeger ? When they asked for protectioe,
said to be a dissatisfied ram ; end when they
silliest the navigation laws, they .were told that they haw
loathing about it. (" Hear, hem,' and laughter.)
Earl GREY 'Waned that what he sad was, that kese
the places from which the petitions came, it was corteis that
the petklesers did not care so mach about thactOse e n
Tensaw el
the bill, bat they looked to it as • step in re pee.
peer. (Hear, hear.)
AUSTRIA AND RUSSIA.
Lord BROUGHAM said the attention of the nark Ars-
=had been called to en important sabisol, mike
apes the same matter, to pm • condom a Use Win
mervis
intooppsite. It appeared that Resale had Melba S
large bine t the Austrian territories. From the idenes-
ties whisk be led received from Vienna and eimerbere, it
teat the Russian army had marched to three
Val at
Heawy end Gallicia. He wished to irk
whether say latmaticn had been given by the Zemke gio
varmint of the purpose sad intention of this ibevemist I
He had as desk it was with the entire consist el the
Awoke goverament ; bat that was no answer to a
doubt whisk might arise as to whether one meats,
could interpose by form in another country fee
supposing Austria were to agree to make a cession of Su-
gary, Transylvania, and Gallicia, we should have a mdse.
right to 'complain of such a step and to protest ogaieet is.
No person felt mote strongly than be did the anxious kis
to see Austria, our ancient and hat ally on the twit a
an
Burom, in entire, quiet, d successful possession of her
rightful dominions. In putting this question he ad
wish it to be understood to be his opinion that any
meatacted a wrongful part who only interbred for tie el: II
pose a/ sustaining the present distribution of power In
Emmy, lad yetis' down those reckless agitators who bad
been coveting Europe with their follies and their mimes.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, who was almost in
audible in the gallery, was moderatood to my that me intelli-
gence had been received of the Realism troops ha
entered Gallia'. He was not certain whether they had
entered any part of the Austrian dominions, but the move-
ments of the Russian army certainly indicated a course
of action which bad such a tendency. He did not, how-
ever, consider the employment of the troops of one country
in another country, at the request of she latter, for the pre-
servation of its dominions, was analogous to the use put by
the noble and learned lord as to the cession of one part of a
country to another.
AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.
The Dab of RICHMOND roes, pursuant to notice, " to
riii=" tn.'
ase„ndytoPier:l Ifs aßtattlatinodtgrjelalionoing
te Inipinsees and urgency of the subject." He did not
deb to boas add; bat when large bodies of their fellow
VIM Ildrerimg such wire pressure—when he 1
weir e» thousands of agricultural labourers out of
=, aid when he knew that there were thousands of
turista looking to parliament for assistance and re.
lief, he felt no hesitation in calling their lordships' attrition
les the subject. And these men were suffering
kons" the free trade cotton-spinners chose to agitate and
seise large sums of money—and, by the way, a noble lord
monite, now a member of the administration, sent them the
modkent donation of a 61. note. (Much laughter.) They
never allowed the people to come into their halls without
ticket,. They told the working man, " You will get plenty 1
of bread ; your wages will not be reduced, and the Ten HOW. I
Bill shall not be passed." But the moment the corn law was
repealed, by the cowardice of one, and the treachery of many
—(lnghter)—the Ten Hairs Bill was passed. He under-
stood they were trying to play tricks as to this bill now, bat
parliament would not allow it to be tampered with.
C, uld there be any doubt as to op iculteral distress,
although the farmers had been insulted by not one word
being said in the address from the throne about its I
A gnat many of the petitions were for a repeal of the
malt. which he thought a most manor and =just
tax. With en increasing population, the tax did set
boron : sad why were they not to give their laborige
bamobrewed ale ; why . should they buy foreiv a
"she le hates their book instead of malt ? It mutt be re-
membered that the brumes took their leases under the old
gels's, rod he thought in the altered sire of things their
Mmes dread be give. up to them by their landlords. lie
wesld salt the right rev. bench of prelates, as they were ge-
nerally appealed to, whether they would expect the Winos
to pay the tithes which were commuted when wheat was at
66s- a quarter, hutted of 46e., its present price ? They
could not do it, and the right rev. prelates might depend on
it, that if they were not relieved the farmers would endea-
vour to get rid of the tithes; and if they did, they would be
joined by Bright, end all those men who bated the church,
and the church would be swept away entirely. (" Hoer,
bear' " and laughter.) He thought the average ought to be
taken every yeas. hansed of ono you cm awl ewe yew. at.
was mother
dungvf oomplaint. The formed
bed made so profit rthe last year, end yeC
they were made. to pay the income tax. Why,
if that were done to these ontospepinnen the
while cal Menchester would be in a blase. (A last&)
Wel, thee, they talked of free trade for Inlaid : was itkrel
kids to say to the Irist farmer, Your land would grow rea I
l
=lnd we peer an order to prevent your doing so ? He
the free-trade party not to press the farmers too ihr :1
;bird se sight te make these rash experiments of flee I
milk keeled end ruined such large manes of pee-1
ple, is wee set may the tenant farmers who osespiabeed.l
bat the mukkole of labourers who wen out of essohigmest.
(Hear, hear.)_ Twenty or thirty men might lIS sees be 1
every little vate out of employment; and en Beak* kb. I
eastrious agricultural lab,nrer should not be deprived el do I
means of obtaining his livelihood, for the purpose a
mistrhser foreigner. (Hear.) The English
was a good-hearted man ; but he sea Wm-
Owe to be so, of he was long subjected to the treetennit
which be at preset suffered. In conclusion he mast say,
that if neresift were not dons to relieve agricultural dk
tress, the semegpssese would be most serious to the country.
The Earl of WHICIIELSRA could not, in justice to his
own hasp, IR to the yeomanry and tenantry of England,
remake silent era the pressed meadom His noble friend,
the arm sod vegamproaddei enoperese of protection to the
whale iskilly of the awoke, bid dearly shown that the
L.A.h, if sea the treequillity of this canny, would be
V the preimet rash eystem of free trade were per-
ions he cordially concurred. Unlace
the monsihatmer, who could stop hie machinery when he
=has agriculturist depended upon the goodness of
for the return of his labour and outlay. Over-
feed as the British agriculturist was, he believed it wholly
=that even the present miserable prices could be
8;
for he believed with the improved egricul-
Mil operations now going on in America that that country
aims would be able more than to supply the whole world.
Ile essoientiously believed that these measures would
lelet HOB empire to a crisis from which she would find
N Mean to extricate herself, and he should never cease
to agitate till protection were restored, not only to epice-
ntre but to every species of native industry. He looked
Imes these 1111181111111111 SS a fatal attack upon the best inte-
nds albs ormility, realm felt confident that the result
wadi lead to MOM mesequences than they experienced
ems he 1822, for he 1822 there was a plentiful harvest,
whin In 11348 there was a scarcity—in his own county the
seennen not exceeding 2 quarters per sae, and that of an in-1
fobs qoallty. Under these circumstances he called upon
their lordships, in the name of their country and as honest I
mss, fearlessly to retrace their steps, for upon the govern" I
most, and upon those who refuted thus to retrace their
Mega, would rest the awful responsibility of involving
must
tremble. (Hear, hear.)
The Duke of RICHMOND again rose, and mid he had
omitted to auk a question which it WAS his intention to have
pat to her li's government. It wee, whether they ad-
mitted the agricultural diseren, and if so, whether they were
prepared to traduce remedial waves ?
Berl GREY said, thesikthe week was not • convenient
occasion on whisk to dissenthe great gelation of free trek,
re particulaity es se modem had been subedited to the
house, still he meld set allow the two speeches
which had jest bees made to paw embodied. And
he would memoeme by awariag the noble dike that
both he sad Itle wade friends near him were very
sensible of the emienikerel distress which exiseadaszespe-
(daily in the sedbern parts ',England. That they
deeply deplored; bat at the some time wise set pa-
pered to istrodsge say mieseres with le it. He must
remind their brashly, that Ibis wee T the Sett time they
had heard eimplekto of agdielteed dims; gal likes the
noble earl Odd them that the mare miasma of meat &tress
meld to be taken as a sensinelve proof of the Niue erne
trade, be sited what sissimione were they to draw hem the
midmost 4 &Ann modem to the adoption of a free trade
pokey ? (Ilier, hear.) The earn laws were poised in 1816
Med be towed that fe the nem year petitions were '
meted ea a &loom Ailahl,; similar
rlgwere is 1817, 1819, 1820, 1821, 1822,
itka, 424,1 Uhl, Mk 1834, 18',i5, and 1838; so that
is 14 years out of 31 dmiectkeprevalence ol protection there
were strong eampiekte of agricultural distress. Bat that
was sot all, fee he heed that the distress was so in-
tone that it bed loos mentioned in the Hing's
spook ems three meadem, and that six ocesneiglego
had sat to investigate the subject. (Scar, hear.)
when be wee told that the present distress arose
from free trade, he might remind them of the report
by the solainittee oldie Hesse of Commons in 1831
who, Thee
report bad been drawn up by • sight hoe. gandemaa
sow a convert to km leads, was at dot time 001 Ni.
=2ll ••• Of the shiest eeters 0 proiestico, and roam
deg Se die repeat el • resepp ds= eimmittee be mid " the
osomellbaa of ISM Winged a bop thet;erst body el
the ispeplers .0 the sell, either kis the d mess
times, ter Sam their weak gegeseses
=lmstsag goads them le waresseat difliekies male
glide they sew Meer. Thu woosoalliss, with deep gergret,
see lesnin MIMS •• for that the dilisalties dime ram&
that the swim _fond has mse, their mkt kW
11.1=4.goessiem completely sehe" (Isar, bear.)
Re Mglikly ask sot weak, tbeglibere wee anything very
lenselthtlibs in Mat statement to led lima to return to a
midis el prolvdss. (Hem.) Aad he wadi farther mon
AM owed es the Monis sew was it was not in his
Ivry init le meek fir k. In the Ant pigmy ttk.

'oath of Emslend the intrust had been one of the very worst
that had ever been known • and that that was the main
cause of the distress bad in' fact been admitted by the two
noble lords who
.pro
him, particularly of the noble earl
who stated that in his part of the country the yield inferior
exceeded two quartsrs per acre, and that of an
quality. Now he asked whether it would tend to allay, the
popular discontent to whisk the noble earl bad alluded if the
of this mantel were to be coefload to that pointy pro-
=rl-6 (Heat, bear.) Bader throe eirrolutances he thought
that it WM Mater 110 t of regret but of congratulative,
having 'nerd aces especially to the state of Ireland, that
they w
hichy the blessing of Providence, and that change of the
law w was most timely accomplished throe years ago,
been ambled to obtain so large a supply of food from
abroad. (Hear.) He mild not see what possible object
Me farmer tumid base in wishing for the repeal of the malt
tax ; because, when they were told that malt was of great
tonne in feeding cattle, he would remind them of those ex-
periments which were tried some years ago by the most emi-
nent scientific men, first theoretically and then practically, to
ascertain the value of malt as compared with other food ;
when it was clearly established that it was such
a spears of food that, if the duty was taken
off tomorrow, no one would adopt it. No one
mold suppose that any taxation in itself was desir-
able; but, looking at the whole circle of our hoodoo, he
believed there was scarcely one that was attended p
with so little objection as this tar. Then the tabu:comb:ea
bees referred to. What was the foci? If foreign *obsess
were allowed freely to enter this couatry, our climate waists
inferior for the growth of that plant, which wee, ia the !bat
place, • very exnausties plant, and, in the second, requited
a very hot climate, that there waa not the remotest pod;
Why of this country enteritis into successful competition with
foreign countries in the growth of tobacco. To seriously
Nippur*, then, that we could, in that respect, compete with
Cuba and the southern states of America wee eat of the
question. It came then to this, that the present tax
was only a tax to support revenue. If it were other-
wise, and there were any possibility of cultivating
tobacco in this country on equal terms with the foreigner, be
could see no objection whatever to apply to that article the
same role as nu applied to others—beet-root sugar, for ex-
ample, which was allowed to be grown in this country ea
paying the same duties as colonial sugar. (Hear, beer.)
The noble duke farther said that farmers ought to Is
allowed to give up their farms in consequence of the Mt ef
1846, and the change which it Wanted in their peespeets.
Hu (Earl Grey's) belief, however, was that theri wee now
co difficulty in the way cf that where the tenant really de-
sired to surrender his tans. As far as his experience went,
when a farmer wished to throw up, it did not answer the
of the landlord to make him retain peep
=8; but he knew when the off. r was made by
the landlord to take farms off the tenants' hands, they ha-
mediately wished for time to consider the proposal. (A
latch.) lie confessed he deeply regretted that speeches,
which no doubt were made in all sincerity, were
being made throughout the country, calculated to
create a most unfounded mai' in the minds of
the farmers. Fur himself, his whole interest was Involved
in land, and be saw no reason to doubt but the land hereafter
might see better days. Before sitting down he must timess
the satisfaction he felt at seeing throughout the country
steam proofs that agricultural improvements were going on
much more rapidly than hitherto. Some months ego he
travelled from Cumberland to London by railway, and he re
nuked that he had seen lying about so large a num-
ber of drainage tiles—a stems proof that the spirit of im-
provement was not lying dormant, and that the farmer' of
this country were not really discouraged from activity. He
would now conclude by once more suturing the noble duke that
was quite aware of the existence of great distress
sad that he most sincerely deplored it; but, at the same
time, he most add his firm conviction, that any measure
which might be attempted for meeting that distress—a dis-
tress which was beyond their control—would be likely to do
more harm than goal. (Hear, hoer.)
The Earl of MALMESBURY mid it gave him great plea-
sore to hear the noble earl admit the existence of agricultural
distress. nut, it that were some satisfaction to them, it was
speedily destroyed when the noble earl added that it was not
the intention of the government to introduce any measure
with a view to its alleviation. (Protectionist dicers.)
The agricultural distress referred to by the noble earl, se
formerly complained of, had arisen from totally different
mum. In the year 1816 then was a very deficient harvest;
In 1819, the currency bill of Sir R. Peel was the cause of the
farmers' distress; in 1822, the dieters was attributable to
the failure of the banks ; and in 1836, another and a totally I
different reason mutt be assigned for the agricultural dis
namely the enormously productive harvest at that year.
The distress now existing was not analogous to any of the
Maw distress( s—tor it was owing to entirely different
wee. And when the noble earl said it arose from the deft-
dewy of the harvest in the south of England, he must be
allowed to say that such did not account for it, because there
were complaints from all parts of the kingdom sad from In-
land also.
The Duke of RICHMOND, in reply, said that he was
convinced the government would ultimately be obliged to
resort to a corn duty, not for the purposes of protection, but
for the sake of One thong was certain—the navi-
gation law policy bad recruited the ranks of the agricultural
party by adding to them the shipowners, merchants, and the
hardwaremen of Biro:deem= ; and last, though not least,
that great body of operatives who found that tree trade
meant half a day's work and a quarter of a day's pay. 'Lite
time might come when he would have to go upon the hust-
ings to demand the suffroges of his fellow-chisens, and he
woe convinced when that time eame, if ever it did come, that
he should carry off a majority in favour of his views. The
noble duke then presented a great many petitions complain-
ing of agricatual diatreas, and others praying for a repeal
of the malt tax, and a return to corn duties, for which "-
above.

RAILWAY AUDITS.
Lord MONTEAOLE moved the first reading of this bill,
which was agreed to.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved that the house do
adjourn to Friday next, which was agreed to.
Adjourned at S o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TUESDAY, MAT 15.
The SPELKEIL took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
REPORTS CONSIDERED.— Black Sluice Drainage
Lots Amendment (amendment of acts, extension of time for
completion of works, porn to levy and Mill, further rates
and moneys, to alter existing rates and tells, and for other
prows) ; Edinburgh and Olugow Railway, aid Wilson-
town, Morningeide, and Cohnees Railway Amalgamation ;
York, Newcastle, and Berwick Railway (Rarmoor and Aln-
mouth new branches, ae.); Bills.
THIRD READINGS.—Shrewsbury and Chester Rail-
way (for branches to the river Dee, agreement for joint sta-
tion at Shrewsbury, power to subscribe towards the Shrews-
bury and Hereford Railway) ; York and North Midland
Railway (deviation and abandonment of part of the autho-
rised lines of railway between Market Weighton and Bever-
ley, and Copmanthcrpe and Tadosater) ; Bills.
CONSIDERATION OF LORDS' AMENDMENTS.—
Edinburgh and Northern Railway (additional capital and
amendment of seta) ; North Western Railway (extendon of
Lancaster Branch, abandonment of William Lands Branch,
new road to Settle-station, extension of time for pis chase of
lands and construction of weeks) ; Bills.

-
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
RZOISTILITION OP BIRTHS &C. AND MAZZIAOB (floor-
MOD) BILLS.— By Mr. C. BRUCE, from Abernethy,
county Elgin, against these bills.
ABBITBATION TZZATISA INSTEAD OP WAIL—By Sir T.
BIRCH, from the Society of Friends in Liverrol
PRYSE, from ,Car die= and other places; 11r. HEADLAM,
from Newcastle ;—in favour of this proposition.
AOIUCULTURAL DIBTRISL—By Mr. FRILWEN, from
Cuckfield ; Sir H. for from Leieestar;—complaining
of agricultural distress, andthe repeal of the malt tax.
FINANCIAL Rarony Sir R. PRICE, from Somer.
setshito, in favour of financial reform.
METE/4810N Or THE 81ThIRA011.—By Mr. S. CRAW-
FORD (69), from Rochdale, different parts of the metropo-
lis, lAdoester, Berwick, Tewkesbury, Bridport, and other
places, foe an extension of the suffrage.
PUBLIC LIBRARIIS.—By Mr. A. HASTIE, from the mem-
bers of the public library at Glasgow, for the establishment
of public libraries in every town in the United Kingdom.
Itarintaoss BILL.—By Mr. GLADSTONE, from the
clergy of Worcester, against this bill.
Bean Hooexa.--B y Mr. G. THOIdPSON, from Shef-
field, for the abolition of lioanses to beer houses.
AMIAMATION BILL.—By Mr. G. THOMPSON, from
Reading, in favour of this NIL
Casa or TUB Rev. Ma. Sson.x.—By Mr. G. THOMP-
SON (2), from Wesleyan Methodists in Mabyshire, for the
release of this gentleman.
Ircown or Deexe.—By Sir J. DTJCKWORTH, from
' the Dean and Clispur of E- Ester, against the bill limiting
the income of deans of old cathedral churches to I,OOOL a

year.
Onaitakt. REPORM.—By Mr. KERSHAW, from Stock
port, signed by 1,800 persons, in favour of general reform.
PROTICTIOX or Wonsue BILL.—By Mr. Alderman
HIIMPHERT, from Southwark, in favour of this bill.
NOTICES OF MOTION.
Imam Cannot TIMPOLLITIBIL-Mr. B. OSBORNE,
Tueefay, the kit of June, to move for a committee of
tonhe whole house to inquire into the temporalities of the Irish
church.
Tan O'CONNOR, on
Tuesday, the 6th of June, to submit a resolution pledging
the hones to adopt the principles of the people's charter.

Mr. HUTT moved that, in consequence of a petition of
the mayor and corporation of Gateshead, against chums in
the Tyne River Conservancy Bill, net having been deposited
in the private bill office within seven clear days after the
second retain of the said bill (by reason of the illness of
the member for Gateshead), it be an instruction to the com-
mittee on the bill to entertain the said petition notwith-
standing,
After a few words frees Kr. W. Parrair, the motion was
agreed to.
EXPENSES OF TEE NEW HOUSES OF
PARLIAMENT.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked Mr. Greene, "what is the
gross amount of the estimates mitt in by Mr. Barry, the
architect, for the completion of the houses of parliament and
all works relating thereto; and witether the commission (of
which Kr. Greene is a member) hos any legal authority to
sanction or to alter the amount of each
Mr. GREENE was rare the hon member would acquit
him of any want of courtesy to `lm, or any wish to
withhold khrmatim, If he declined sesweeing di. question
is the fail la which it wee now pat ; Wows in the °purse

of a few days would be laid on the table of the house a
statement, not only of all the expenses that had been in-
curred, but of all the probable ninnies that might be in-
caned in the completion of the howes of parliament. The
torus in which the paper would cows before the house
would be this : it would state, in the Brat iwttance, the
amount of the estimate ; it would Eats how much of the
estimate had been expended, and how much remained to be
expended. In the next place, it would state what additional
expenses bad been incurred in consequence of its having
been found necessary to lay the foundations of the houses
deeper than wee contemplated in the contract—in point of
fact they were nearly double the depth. It would next state
what were the additional buildings, and the authorities by
which the additional buildings w, re made which had added
materially to the increased expense. There would be laid
Wore the blouse a variety of othrr details of which it was
absolutely necessary that the house should bo informed. If
be were to state the gross amount it would give rite to a va-
riety of misrepresentation. As to the question whether the
commission had any legal authority to sanction or to alter
the amount of the estimates, he could state that teey were
not able to enter upon them without the approval of the

treasury.
Mr. MO WATT asked whet steps had been taken as to the
ventilation of the now house.
Mr. GREENE said that the subject of ventilation was set-
tled before he became a commissioner. It was arranged that
Dr. Reid should have the ventilation of the House of Com-
mons aed the adjoining lobbies ; be was not to have charge
of the ventilation of the committee-rooms.
PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.
Sir J. WALMSLEY, in consequence of the indisposition of
the hon. member for Montrose, postponed the hon. mem-1
tier's motion on the subject of parliamentary reform until
the 6th of June.
OUTBREAK IN CANADA.
Mr. BERRIES took the opportunity of asking the noble
lord whether he bad received any authentic information re-
specting the very grave events ',heels were represented, by
the public papers, to have taken place in Canads, end whe-
ther he was prepared to lay that information on the table of
the house ? He also took the liberty of asking, in reference
to • question which he bad put on a former occasion, whe-
ther her Majesty's government were now in poressioo of ex-
tracts from the votes and proceedings of the legislative assem-
bly in Cassels relative to the bill of indemnity for the looms
ens'ined by the rebellion in Canada ? He had asked this
question before, and the noble lord had informed the house
that he was net in possession of these votes and proceedings,
and the answer was made in a manner conveying the inti-
mation that it wasnot usual to receive extracts of the votes
and proceedings ed the legislature of Canada. It happened
that ministen tad, by the command of her Majesty, laid on
the table of the hones in more instaires than one, and in a
very recent instance, an extract from the votes and proceed-
legs of the legislative usembly in Canada on the question of
the navigation laws. lie therefore slated whether her Ma-
jesty's ministers were now in possession of extracts from the
votes and proceedings of the legislative assembly of Canada
on this subject ?
Ms. ROEBUCK, before the noble lord answered that
emotion, would ask another. The bill of indemnity for those
who suffered losses in Canada was of necessity a money bill.
Therefore Lord Elgin, be supposed, must have had instruc-
tions from the home government before any steps were
taken in the parliament in Canada as to that bill, and there
must have been a message from the governor-general to the
houses of parliament giving them authority to enter into the
I consideration of the measure. He asked the noble lord
whether or not he was vgnisant of any instructions given to
Lord Elgin to give the previous sanction to the motion to be
made in parliament, thus showing that the government at
home, and the superior government at Canada, sanctioned
the indemnity to be given to these parties before the parlia-
ment of Canada could be put into operation.
Lord J. RUSSELL—With respect to the very serious
events that bad occurred at Montreal, he had to state, In
answer to the first question of the right hon. gentleman, that
a despatch had been received from the O reedier General of
Canada, directed to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.
That despatch was only received at 4 o'clock this day. He
had not himself seen the despatch, but it was a public docu-
ment containing an account of the disturbances at Montreal,
and there would be no objection to laying it immediately as
the table of the house. With respect to the next question
of the right hon. gentleman, and with regard likewise to
the question of the hon. gentleman who bad spoken after the
right hon. gentleman, he would only say, that Lord Elgin
stated that it was his intention to write by the next mail a
despatch, stating all the occurrences that bad relation to the
bill of indemnity for lasses, and that despatch might be es-
pected by the next arrival in this country. Re did not
think that he had sent home previously the extracts of pro
'seeding' of the Hones of Assembly, but he hoped those
votes would be rteeived when the despatch was tent,
and in that ease there would be no objection to laying
the despatch and those proceedings before the house. Under
thole circumstances, having the assurance of Lord Elgin
that he was about to state all that had occurred, and the
reasons that, in his opinion, judifiel him in *miming the
responsibility which he assumed in the exercise of his func-
tions, he must decline entering further into this matter, or
answering the question put to him by the hon. member for
fibefil-Id. He thought it far better to wait until Lord Elgin
had bad an opportunity of stating the ow, and he had had
an opportunity of laving before the house the whole of what
had occurred in Canada in respect to the avery serious
matters.
Mr. ROEBUCK had no Intention of imputing to Lord
Merin, in asking the gesmiun, any deviation from the orders
he had reed . He merely wanted to ask the cable lord
whether he was cognisant 0' aay proceedings.
Lord J. RUSSELL did not suppose that the bon. member
moot to impute to Lord Elgin soy departure from his in-
etreetieas, but he thought it far better that the whole case
should be reserved.
Mr. DISRAELI said that the hon. member for Sheffield
bad made an inquiry which, if he had sat in the house on
the 22nd of March. he would not have made, because the
Ueder-Secretary of State for the Colonies then used the fol-
lowing woe
Kr. Hamm mid in answer to the firet question of the righ bon.
trodhomm. he had to state that no instructions whatsoever were given
to the nib brim the heed of the Canadian government with refer-
ees* to Me blrednillen el this bill, or in contemplation of any Bush
mamma Mb (Mr. Masees's) noble friend (Lord Grey) had entire
modamse In Om noble bed's (Lord Fawkes) inclement and dleceetion,
end hiss net In the habit of giving him fostruetkas of that kind.
With lewd to the 'sand qwaWnre of the right hon. gentlelrnis(utY, who
himself Owl the 'Mee ot sectary f otate or the Cooos, he
Rawls) had te deb that he (Mr. cl oadetone)f would permit him
to my, that all eisnisi laws--all colonial laws, he believed, waivher.
ally—having gamed Womb their formal stages, end received te
event of the einem through her Majesty's representative in the
colony, OMB WO immediate operation, unless they contain a sus.
That
Wanes.
That was a distinct answer to the hon. member for Shef-
field, and therefore it would be satisfactory clearly to under-
stand that information of so late a date as the 22nd March,
given by a member of the government, was authentic.
Mr. ROEBUCK, not seeing the hon. gentleman the
Under•Seczetary of State for the Colonies in his place, sup-
posed he had not received a letter which he bad sent him
some time ago. (Here Mr. Hawes entered the house and
lea his writ.) He called the attention of his hon. friend to
the painful eircusetances which had lately occurred in
Montreal. Those circumstances originated in the consent
given by the Governor General to a bill which was passed
threugh the legislature of Canada for the remuneration of
certain parties who had suffered losses during the late rebel-
lion. This, from the nature of the case, was a money bill.
It must have come immediately and directly from the
Canadian ministry, and they.mud have been commanded by
the Governor. General to give their assent. The circum-
Istances would not permit him to enter any further into the
matter. lie di i not impute blame to anybody, for he
should be more inclined to defend than impute blame, He
wanted to know the exact stets of the circumstances: he
wanted to know from his hon. friend opposite whether or
no general instructions in the power of the Governor-General
included a power to give, in her Majesty's name, consent to
a money bill, and thereby on each particular occasion impose
the responsibility on the Governor-General ; or whether
there had been sent out from the Colonial-office, as was the
ordinary case (and in so extraordinary a case as this he was
right to suppose it was sent out from the Colonial-office), a
power given to the Governor. General in her Majesty's name
to command her ministry there acting in her name to go
down to the Canadian Assembly, and say that she sanctioned
the appropriation of money to the express purposes of the
bill. At the proper time he should be able to explain how
these circumstances happened. If the neble lord would an-
swer the question, he timid be satisfied as to whom the re-
sponsibility attached.
Lord J. RUSSELL maid that the answer given on a
former occasion was perfectly correct in point of fact
Mr. HAWES said that he had received the note of the
hon. member for Sheffield, and bad written an answer that
he would communicate with the other members of the

government.
Sir 3. PAKINGTON asked whether government had re- 1
ceived a petition emanating from a large meeting at Mon- I
Meal, to recall Lard Elgin, and to withhold the royal smut I
to the indemnity bill. -He wished to ask whether any such
petition had been received fr run Montreal, and whether any '
petition to the same effect had been received from other parts
of the country ?
Lori J. RUSSELL said that when he saw his noble
friend in the morning, no itch petition bad been received—
whether it had been received since he was not certain.
Mr. BRIGHT said that perhaps the noble lord would be
willing to inform the house whether government had re-
ceived such information as led them to hope the disturbance
had been put down. He should be glad if such information
could be given and come in a more authentic shape than
the statements the papers.
Lord J. RUSSELL replied that Montreal was tranquil,
and the provinces might be taken as tranquil, although
meetings were being held.
Mr. P. HOWARD asked the noble lord whether it
was the intention of her Majesty's government to increase
the faros in Canada by sending out the guards—(a laugh)—
sod to strengthen the power of the executive in the provinces.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that there was no necessity for
reinforcements at this moment. He was told that the civil
power in Montreal consisted of two constables, and those two
constables were found sufficient.
EMIGRATION FROM IRELAND.
Mr. MONSELL, in pursuance of his notice, rose to call
the attention of the house to the question of emigration as
connected with the interests of Ireland. He was aware of
the difficulty of the subject, from the irksomeness which
the house must feel on account of the constant recur-
rence of debates connected with Ireland, which did
not end in producing any satisfactory or good result.
To save the jime of the house, he would touch very
slightly on the existing social state of Ireland. By the
poor law returns it appeared that, while the support
of a pauper in England cost 41. a year, in Ireland it cost only
11. • and yet there were so many claiming that miserable
subsistence that the rate.payen were ground down in attempt: