The Express.
London, England, 1847-03-30 00:00:00

attest be the disapprobation, the diarist, the indignation
which such a barbarous proclamation must inspire in the
minds of every member of the government (Hear, bear.)
Undoubtedly the hon. gentleman bad shown a great con-
trast in favour of that pnoce whom he considered entitled to
the throne of Spain, as far as consideration and humane
priociples went; this was shown in the proclamation he had
read, contrasted with the savage tone and intention of the
other. Goaeral Mina, who bad issued this proclamation,
was no long. r in his office ; and he (Lord Palmerton) was
not awaro that his successor had adopted that order. He was
excoolirigly sorry to bear it ; and undoubtedly, so far as the
infleence of her Majesty's government could go, in any ad-
vice which they might think it competent to give to the
Spanish government, they should seek to impress upon that
government the necessity of acting upon humane, and not
upon barbarous principles. While blaming and censuring
these praceeings, the house ought to bear in mind that
these atrocita were re tof very recent dote. It was impos-
sible to forget the decree of lharango—(hear, bear) ;.1l11(1
in the last civil wan tee atrocities were not as the hon.
member had wished to represent, entirely on the aide of the
Queen's troops ; they had prevailed on both sides, with this
dl5 renec, that while Don Carlos had issued the decree of
Durango, nonesuch had been issued on the part of the Queen.
But the barbarous practice of shooting prisoners did not
aiginate even at that period ; it would be remembered that
military murders were committed under the government of
a former period. Having answered the question of the hon.
member, he could not refraia from expreseing his regret at
some indications which appeared in the proclamation or cir-
cular of the Conde de Montemolin. He there spoke of
ranks, and armies, and fields of battle, and of enemies ; and
there was an indication that the prince by whom it had been
trued intended to .ender his native countrythe scene of that
discord which had so long and so fatally prevailed there. If
it meant anything, it seemed to moon, that we might expect
Spain again to be the theatre of civil war, originating from,
and carried on by the designs of, that party of whom the
prince was the chief. He (Lord Palmerston) should be most
sorry indeed if such a result should take place. (Hear,
hear.) Should Spain again be made the scene of a bloody
Civil war by the friends of that prince,judging from the cha-
racter and conduct of that prince since he had been promi-
nently before the public, that course would not be adopted
with his approbation and sanction: and it was to be hoped
that those persona in this countre who had the means of
frieing advice to that illustrious individual would use their
influence to induce him to restrain his friends, and prevent
Spain being again the Keno of such devastating calamities.
(Hear, hear.)
Sir De L. EVANS said he was extremely glad to wit-
ness the warm anxiety which had been evinced by the hon.
member for Everham for the preservation of peace in Spain;
he ceuld only regret that the hon. member had not evinced
the same anxiety on a former occasion, when his fellow-sub-
jects were slaughtered in that country. He (Sir De L.
Evans) had arrived in Spain immediately after the Elliott
convention ' • he continued to serve there nearly two years ;
and he was bound to sar, in reference to the statement of
the noble lord, as to both parties being equally criminal, that,
to his knowledge, not one of the general officers serving
under the Queen was otherwise than most anxious to carry
the Ellett convention into effect. (Hear, hear.) He did
not believe that any one of them violated that convention,
while he served there. On one occasion he took 1,000 prisoners,
and 100 officer', but their lives were held sacred. It was, there-
floe, rather too much to hear the representatives of the fallen
dynasty, the upholders of the pretender, come forward and
plume themielvre on their humanity in conducting the war
in that ementry. He also wished to ask the noble lord
the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, if it was consistent with
the preservation of international law, that a proclamation
denouncing the government of one of our allies as a usurpa-
tion, should be permitted to go forth from • person receiving
the hospitality of this country.
Viscount PALMERSTON said it was certainly a great
abuse of the hospitality which this country afforded to all
foreigaers of whatever rank or class, who chose to reside
here, that they should issue proclamations or publications of
any kind, tending to excite a war or hostilities in a foreign
state which was an ally of this country. (Hear, hear.)
LAW OF LANDLORD AND TENANT IN IRELAND.
Mr. W. S. CRAWFORD asked the noble lord at the
head of the government whether the promised measure for
regulating the law of landlord and tenant in Ireland would
be chortle introduced, and when it might be expected.
Lord 3. RUSSELL said he had already stated that this
measure could not be introduced till after Easter. These
had been a great many difficulties in the way of the thee-
eine ;it was not yet prepared, owing to the great pressure
of business before the government ; but it would be brought
forward with as little delay as possible.
ADDITIONAL POWERS TO THE DUBLIN COR-
PORATION.
Mr. LABOUCHERE, in answer to a question from Mr.
OROCAN, with reference to a bill promsted by the cor-
poration of Dublin for giving them extended powers, said
that he so for approved of that bill that be should 'rapport
the second reading.
DEATHS FROM STARVATION IN IRELAND.
Lord G. BENTINCK rerewed the inquiry he had made
on a former eveeing as to the possibility of obtaining returns
elf the co:nparati re mortality of Ireland in the past and pre-
tend yeett Re road a letter which he hod received that
day from a Roman Catholic clergyman, stating that the re-
turns of the numbers, and even the names, could be fur-
niehee without eifficulty, and would show an increase of 20
to 1 iu the pr. sent year.
Mr. LABOU (MERE, without at all denying the unfor-
tunate tact that a great mortality had taken. place owing to
the destitution in Ireland, said he eoubted whether any
accurate returns could be obtained, and he objected to laying
Wore the house, on a subject of this nature, vague and con-
jecturel statements. In a letter which he had that morning re-
ceive:l from Mr. liceington, it was stated, on the authority of
arc of the mod respectable and leading clergymen of the
Church of England is Dublin, that the registries of deaths
kept ty the incumbenee of each parish could not be relied
upon, as they were most imperfect in many cases ; and that
such registries only embrand those interred in yards ad-
joining the church, aria: not the interments made in open
churchyards, which were the principal places of interment
in Ireland. Such a return would be most unsatisfactory,
and would answer no public object. The Roman Catholic
clef; v, to whom the noble lord had alluded, were not public
functionaries in the same sense as the clergy of the Church
of Elegised ; and therefore the returns from them could not
be enforced. But, on the firmer discussion, several Roman
Catholic members had expressed their belief that it would
be impossible to obtain any accurate returns through the
medium of their clergy; he, therefore, hesitated to spree to
the principle of producing such returns. He would endea-
vour to ascertain if it was possible or practicable to obtain
accurate returns, which he greatly doubted.. His oppo-
sition proceeded not from any desire to prevent the house
having this information, but from the fear that it could not
be obtained with sufficient accuracy.
Loll J. MANNERS seed that he held in his hand a letter
from the renter of Carrick, in which that gentleman begged
to express his surprise that the right bon. gentleman (Mr.
Laboachere) bad stated that there were no means of ascer-
taining the amount of deaths which had taken place during
tee last year.
Lord J. RUSSELL rail that those members who wished
such returns to be made, should recollect that at this
moment a very great burthea was imposed on the public
officers, both here and in Ireland. With regard to the Trea-
sury, those connected with that department underwent very
great labour. With regard to the office in Dublin, there
were a great many anions who said that there never had
been such work in it. Those employed in that department
commenced business at live o'clock in the morning, and did
not finish until eleven o'clock at night. There was a similar
amount of labour done in that office at Christmas time.
Though a great number of additional clerks had been em-
ployed, the labour which would attend the making out of
the returns sought ter was what it was impossible, under
existing circumstances, for public officers to perform.
Mr. DISRAELI observed that the noble lord was no
doubt actuated in what be said by a proper consideration
of the work done in public offices ; but, considering that his
noble friend 'Gad only asked for a return of an unprre
oedcated mortality in the sister kingdom, he thought that
the house ought to obtain it.
Lord J. RUSSELL repeated that it was utterly impoude
Mc, under the present pressure of business in the public
offices, that a proper return °mild be made.
Mr.W.S.O'BRI EN wished to ask the noble lord whether,
supposing the Archbishop of Twain volunteered to supply
the government with the number of deaths which had oc-
curreJ during tee last year, the government would refuse to
lay the information en obtained on the table of the house.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he bad no objection to lay
on the creole of the house any correct information obtained
by the government, but he would be very sorry to lay on the
table incorrect information obtained from a clergyman.
Mr. I'. SCIIOPE said that if a correct emus of the popu-
lation was made during the time of the extreme distress,
they would not have had eo many cases as they had heard of,
of persons its leg in remote parte of parishes, totally unknown
and neglected by those about them.
Mr. LABOUCIiERE said that one of the earliest steps
taken by the government Ives to prepare a list of all the
destitute patens in each district—Here the subject dropped.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
On the house going into committee on this bill,
Mr. P. SCItOPE moved the insertion of a clause for en-
forair.g performance of the g.uardians duties, and also of a
clause for enlarging the maximom extent of land they are
empowered to purchase for the employment, and building
they are allowed to erect for the accommodation of the poor.
He objected to the present mode of confining industrious
able.bodied labourers in close buildings like prisons, without
encouraging habits of industry, or taking advantage of the
out-door labour of the poor.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN said that it was an absolute
infatuation not to give the guardians that power which the
clause of the hot:. member for Strand would afford them.
Ile wished to exptves his thanks to that hon. gentleman for
submitting such a proposition to the house.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD expressed his concurrence with the
view, taken bj the hen. member for Stroud.
Mr. SHAW objected to the clause increasing theguardiame
power of purchasing land and erecting holdings, as it would
tend 'o ine ere the people to depend for their selisktenee Cla
pauper labeler, which would be productive of harm instead
of good. Such a system was very proper during a period of
starvation, but it would be • bad principle to adopt
generally.
Sir G. GREY sei4 at the bill which had been passed
for the reclear.ation . este leads had for its object that
sort of employment . was sought for by the hon.
member for Stroud. The ills already passed rendered the
clause of the hon. gentleman quite unnecessary, and on that
ground her Majesty's government thought fit to oppose its
lam:hie ion.
Dir. P. SC ROPE said that the object of his clause differed
from that of the measures already passed by government,
in se far as it plaided that those employed out of doors
shoulebekreneinder mosithowe
Mr. SHAW thought that the outdoor work proposed to