The Express.
London, England, 1849-02-15 00:00:00

swikeatti seamen's Id. I that there is no gaieties
mfad, with EN aseeentile marine that son urgently
r a etttkont this the state of tbe had. It ts
its diegehlee ese ropkily feenealag, and nay
year we podpene grappling .11b Ws dilleak and important
ass. we esly images the snlesimint dfasety of
'anaectement, and I tin add the pmelblity of a vast
berthas Wag thrown uhlEstify epee the eventry. I in-
troduced a bell on this grablem, aim, ha the mine of Ws
.melee, lessided on the report of a ecestainks whisk bed
exhibited the imbue sasibalig sad ability in Lis know
*Wks. I seediseei the roped so veinal& that
I tbseght it noesseisy_te give It Meet la the slope of a bill.
I must erases Shot Ile seimption which that ammo lad
mt. both by then eceasseed with the mergaatile
owl 1 wal eke add with the nuitidne blowouts
-
walk the peels of England, was sot seek as to sessurogo as
poineure with that MIL I Mau ineeklly mesideret the
dale MOO since, and I hive is tlikpremel euj to is-
Wiese a Featly altered ausenre, lbeeded mg Manse
its unifited, I hops, with • proper re-sareageseent of
samma's fond, and eo4,M slog with an as,
eissiment to pisote the welfare of the seafaring misle-
d= of We saieWay. (Rear, bear.) I bye to Inketleee that
=emu dm at seek a period of the mien es will enable
yes to unekkelet details in the fullest maws. lea ensil-
ing, I essike, Ms latroduce measures of this kind until I see
die question of the navigation laws making some progress
dusegit the Yeas, because I do sot like to throw too
many Dili es the table at ens time. I a het,
my eawllligetel arises from an indbmesities to
introduce lee many bills until one has be int &ma
of (Hear.) A noble friend of Rine sow present, sae of
the lards of the Adinirelty, her, darks the been in
with pro Weal use,and he has aareliDy cow
21queetfes of the towage of ships, and he wifl
sherdy have a Meilen prepared, which be will inteedue is
the present swiss, and which he hopes will woes Uses object
thus now made to the existing system. Ido net know that
I seed add anything more to what I have already said except
to express a hops that the statatents I have made will, in the
wain, be eatlakeury to those interested in this feminism
question. The resolution which I will place in the heeds of
tie chairman is midifled from the one o( lest yea,
in order to bring in ea addition. That addition is
this : " abed to emend the laws relating athe
mastic bade of the United Kingdom' ; " but I
hope list that Whim will met induce the right hon.
gendsms opposies (Er. Henke) to open the digestion at
presort, booms say am. patinas& who does not agree to
the pdas et the reeentka now, will sot be la any wale
debased Imia opposing It hereafter. (Applause )

The CHAIRMAN riad the resolutios-is basic
me ft le inedieet to move the restrietteas whish pant the
hie mielese et - vests ad from the Vatted ithedook and
the kWh pometleos erd le eaelod the taw WOW, to the
=lois et lese WWI to wok
by Noemty to Osumi is Xitseteememess.w= the to
mead the Imre be the leetherotima otMpe sod theamth

Mr. HERRIES —Sir, the right hon. gmelemeabas placed
me in a situation of sine embarrassment with to the
course which I ought to pumas oaths present If the
right hon. gentleman had thought prim to acquaint us with
that addition which he peep., to make by way of alteration
te the MOMS which he submitted to the house in the lost
atomics of parliament, I druid usembeedly have .sawed
my observations to that poet sf the fiesta' alone; end
should not have thought it nomeary is widow on. wed le
the boom upon the groat gtae 1 gasesion whisk this view
site. bivalves. But the gendssessi bee thought
it aseessuy to eater late se a estemest Inushieg these
greaseless upon whisk weave se essesehily divideligem this
seism that it weed be impossible tor me to seder his A-
sereatiese to pass without some notice, at hest, from this
ids of the 11011•14 (Hear.) I had hovel very mask
that the alteration to be proposed in Hie resslutien of
last year would have beta of a better ihemiptimt then
that which the right hon. gentleman has new preposad.
I hod hoped that it would hays been a step in the right I.
meths, sad that he bad made an arrangement with the
Americas goverment for a fair exchange of advantages, la
wing to this gauntry the privilege of the
trade upon the American lout, in exchange for the
viler' of the seating trade upon our coast ; and, if
had ben et, I would have been perfectly gadded
with that erns:gement. (Bear.) But now it stands in this
way, which I do not at all confess is an engagement. It
stands in this way—that yeast° strip ourselves of the right,
of the sole, exclusive tight, of navigation, of commercial in-
terest., with our own colonies; that we are to surrender also,
by act of parliament, the privilege we enjoy with other
nations of communicating the coasting trade with this
country, limited, as the right hon. gentleman proposes, is
exchange for a vague expectation that we may hereafter
' receive permission to carry on the cosstiartrade
with America. Now, I think the coasting trade with Amiss
is of essential advantage ; and considenng that at =
they carry their restrictions to this extent, that an
skip cannot kad upon any of the eastern ports of Aseedea,
sod cannot communicate with California; that a et
10,000 miles cannot be made because it is considered
coasting trade on that side of that rad continent; I think
the removal of that obstruction, in consideration of our giv-
ing an equivalent right to the eoastingtrade upon our own
coast, is something of an exchange. But then it is no such
thing. As at
_present informed, it is no such thing.
(Hoar, hear.) We propose to abandon by law our exclu-
sive privilege, our navigation laws and our oseedng
trade, not to America alone, but to all other men-
trim ; for France and Holland may use it, pre.
Ailed, I suppose, that they concede similar privileges to us.
But that is not by any means the case. (Hear, hear.) We
have no power te carry on the coasting trade on the coast of
France. The French would not allow it ; and by this cos.
situation, which I believe to be the most faulty part of the
construction of the awash:, of the right hon. gentleman,
we are placed in this position—that while we surrender to
all other countries those privileges which we enjoy, the ex-
clusive right to trade with our colonies—the right of trading,
to a certain extent limited, upon our asst—that while we
surrender to them the long voyage, protected as it is at
present by our navigation laws—that, while we do all this,
we only reserve to ourselves a power hereafter, it they do
sot make similar concessions to us, which most of them can-
sot do, for they do sot possess them—(hear, hearl—
ef retaliating In In that case, it is understood
should EageAres:tlistoey sathinks P:sePs:losevilsregkeard to the coanietries-
te make the coacessiosi ; and *la I held to be a
vicious part, and a dangerous part, of the construction of the
present WI. (Hear, hear.) There are 'tates extremely de-
limits ef availing themselves of the privileges we ate about
M &swim ; bat they have Dot manifested in any of their
peessedinge—and we have no right to think thi y will here-
after manifest—the slightest approach to any &position to
reepresee this privilege. (Her, hear.) We shall be put
la this position with respect to France by your mea-
sure. If Pianos refuses and there is not the
slightest reason to suppose the will do other-
wise than refuse to adopt similar regulations on
her part, and if she does that, you sr* then in this position :
you will retaliate on Pianos, and take from her what you
give to all other nations. What will France answer Why,
she will naturally say, " We do not understand this. Yon
have taken off these reetrietions. For what ? For your own
benefit. (Hear, hear.) For your own advantage. (Hear.)
Yon have not done it for our benefit and advantage ; and
shall you then say that, because we do not happen to think
as yen do, you will make us as exception to your general rule
of intercourse ?" Your prosent sours* is vicious. It Is fall of
danger, because it is likely to create sal:amity between you
sad other states; and to that part of your propositioe when
we come to discuss it, I will be prepared to offer the most
strenuous opposition. (Applause.) Now sir, the right boo.
gentleman has satzethard late the discussion today—and he
hailed poet seem ea M es being feoeuable, m he thinks,
to ids usgement—lhesee of we teludirs; end I nest um
he, I hit sespehei dot Anon should have bete any doped-
ties en his part es ends epee time emblem (Hear, hear.)
He mks, " Would yen, by esetbseing year navigation laws,
deity the colonise emspendsia t" You, her Itsiesty's
exaspe-
ration. ! Tem 'helms driven sham to exaspe-
ration. bear.) Yee, who-thought nothing of them
in thele elutes (How, hear.) You, vibe by roar
acts wesigned the actually to rain ! (Hear, hear.) You
now seine down to the house to abandon a great na-
tional peed*, because yea say that if you do not surrender
that great nadonalle=lie yea exasperate she colosies
glair, hear, tai. Why, language like that corm
hem yes is lamellae meld scarcely have equated.
ear, hese) If yea are distermined not to exasperate
this., give this that jest 'smears ef protection
whisk is red wily geed fee duke fatalists, geed nes tab, foe
their penstisel interests, but hr the greater laterals of hu-
manity,and which is lee to then on every mead of jos-
tles. (Hee.) Remesabse the tarts made fa this Moe to
Lases yyoouu to relax term& issemres, and give them mist-
MOS. iemtale the sleuweera kiwis ; and when you
leek i peureenftest i dies stoma it inward to me that
these is wasslbisi dm Minds to Mahe ti us about exas-
mating the esimiss. (Hear, and applums.) Now, the
relit he.. isedrema hes noticed the sae of Coeds with
all that esedeums, fimakams, and franca which I
have always doing es his past; bat be . has
not told the whole of the slay, ace Se lisif
of it. (Hear, Moe.) The right honourable geelleman
left out the yen meet ensued to the wee .of Csaede, whet
is, that all *see masonseeness have their heeded=
in this, that yea hens eased to Canada by poseisthe
duties. (Hose.) They sa Give us bock see is, of
protection, end we may be melded," iorathpb eeso a
away their poised's'. they watt it bask SIM Ikon'
will nut heads aseseihes sh the semi of
ththeye animism Isom How, the rightme hem geatisnmathemli
have soli this their inmenstramsm were huildei de Ms
bet that yes Ispived Mss of their peewee/ dulisk fee
it hikers as a wetteref Nurse the* if you an t=4e
mere Mir dads, they will not be vary
to the of the asegatioa laws. Bat there is ameba
thing, this is net by say muss lace the lest
resenatessee slat ever by Lois Lea. The.
wet a paha babe that, of which Lord. Grey takes no
valise, and that was a defamed of a vary Mimes* obseestse
tram the preemie That required pressed's- Metbet.
mad adimmisps whisk might be disbud heaths swell et
the nevigdiensamet it fistimele steed thee the Oass-
dims manta Lied Grey takes se Aides of
that, mid beta gm
M lie mise were mot to he emeperatsd,
breM4elfe BMWs pyle sot to bare bellowed alt

pete thoi are, Is mist inisilsnt. Ton must look back
to the pooled whim they wee eelginally enacted, and came
deem to the pretend limo, sad pea mast ansider the various
Mwho weighed si dome eseililerations which you now
s n the balsam, who Nimbi their minds to all these
talks which now mem is lie at the foundation of
the arguments for a reversal of the navigation code,
who, haulm all these matters under their consideration,
stillameloil mid eentinued the navigation laws, and ;at
must dhpos of all that mom of authority before you arrive
at the maids& that these laws ought to be repealed.
The his. gimisabor &coil proceeded to quote as anthwitiss is
devour of his views, Washington, Mada-
me end Mr. himself, and went en to say:
Moir, sir, I will set detain the house, bemuse I will
siege into lengthened arguments upon the subjects ent.
lgossil in a measure which we are to discuss in detail. Bat
I we take the liberty of stating the grounds upon which, so
Sr as I can form a judgment on them, we must come to
thesrminadon with respect to the measure of her Majesty's
government--and I will now state where I will take
my stand against this measure. I will not consent to
the admission of foreign nations into an unreserved commie-
del intercourse with our colonies. (Applause.) There
le no state that ma give us any consideration in return for
war shamleanamd et our exclusive intercourse with our co-
lonise. Time is no sate that can give 111 ea equivalent.
Therefor miles that has a right to do so. When Has-
Idemm diesessed this question he maintained, on the
highest pseud, that no nation should interfere be-
tween we end our colonies. (Applause.) The right
leasuselis gentleman went as to say, that in trading
with we solonies we were trading with our own port,—
our pelnelple being to secure for the long voyage the
carriage of ulky articles. No nation could say we had not
a right to do that. By that policy we had made the mer-
cheats of his country seek valuable importers. and by it
aimed the mosarnetion of so many docks, and the building
of so many warehouses. In a word, made this country the
emporium of the world. Abolish the laws under which we
did that, and we at ones hasuded the trade and shipping we
enjoyed, and to which we had an exclusive right. He main-
tained that it was the interest of all Europe that it should
be so ; and that there was no country so fitted sa England
be being the great emporium at the:world. He would not
eigem to giving a power to the government to relax the law
is miseptiomd eases. As regarded Asia, Africa, and Anis-
Zits would uphold • strict exclusiveness; and as re.
Europe, le would act on the principle of re-
elproofty, mutual interest, and amicable arrange-
anent. Haskisson, sreekbig of the United States, ob.
served that .• in matters of navigation and naval power there
exists towards us a spirit of rivalry in the United States, a
spirit of which Ido not complain but whisk should lead
every one to doubt the wisdom of? any reassure that e arm-
raged the growth of the marine of America." (Hear, hear.)
He wished that the ministers who professed to be so bad of
Mr. Haskisson's opinions, would pay more regard to that
principle. If they carried this measure, the foreign navi-
gators would have every advantage—our own colonies in-
eluded—end emeptiag only the coasting trade, which we
d all ova the world, while English capitalists would
Crlnduced to invest their money in foreign vessels as the
cheaper instrument to work with, thus seriously injuring
British seamen, shipwrights, and others. He had the
authority of Mr. Wigrain for saying that if the navigation
laws were abolished the capital invested in shipping would
be transferred to other countries. He could not allow this
opportunity to pass without stating, not in detail but gene-
rally, the grounds on which he was determined to offer to
the proposition his most determined opposition. (Hear.)

• Mr. DRUMMOND said he had found throughout the
sseatry great misapprehension as to the real nature of this
meeenre. He would act go through the details of the
smasare. It had been stated that day that we were to have
fo.eign timber instead of cilonial timber, fore igneawyers in-
stead of British, foreign shipwrights instead of British.(Hear.)
He might in fact go through the whole catalogue of labour
in the same way—all being done for the advantage of
mercantile men and the Manchester cotton spinners. The
country considered it to be a question of more trade and
commerce. But it affected essentially and much more the
elms of labourers in this country than any other question
that could be named. (Hear. hear.)

Mr. HUMS had never heard a statement that more mu-
, rised him than that made by the hon. member who bad
Past sat down. That hon. gentleman took upon himself to
say that this was the lad of a series of measures proposed by
the Manchester school, all of which were or would be
attended with injury to the labouring man. How could he
reconcile that with the motion that the p rice of the labour.
leg man's food was reduced by these measures. [Mr.
Drummond.—But the wages ?) (Cheers.) Wages until
a few days ego had not undergone any reduction, and that
was in the agricultural districts. (" Hear " from the pro-
tectionists )) He had heard of their being reduced hem 91.
to Be. and is. in the south ; but that reduction of the wages
of the agricultural labourer was not clawed by the series of
measures alluded to, and was altogether independent of
them. What was it that gave labour and wages to the mass
of the people ? Increased employment. And what was the
cause of inceeased employment ? Everything which brought
additional trade and commerce to the country. (Hear,
hear.) The right hon. gentleman (Mr. Hades) admitted
that there was no country so well calculated for being the
trading emporium of the world as England, and yet he
would restrict her trade with the world by upholding the
navigation laws. He (Mr. Hume) contended that
the industry of this country bad been shackled by
various monopolies, and that their removal, whether
in corn or shipping, mut be beneficial to England.
Why should not our colonies have the metes of send-
ing:ont their produce and merchandise on the best terms.
All the evidence taken up stain on the subject went to prove
that if we removed the fetters which now bound the applica-
tion of capital we had nothing whatever to fear. He would
say then let our English ships compete with foreign, and
foreign ships with ours. He saw nothing to prevent our
carrying trade from being conducted with the same care and
prudence in our own as in foreign ships—he saw nothing in
our shipwrights to prevent their competing with foreign ship-
wrights, and if there was any impediment on the British sailor
he would say remove it. He thought it an impediment not to
allow him as many apprentices as he wished. He would not
allow of their inferiority in any respect. and he therefore
asked the house sot to prevent English ships, English tailors
and Englishleapitaliste from competing with every part of the
world. His right hoe. friend thought we had not the power
of competing with foreigners. That he (Mr. Hume) denied.
He also denied that America had refused to reciprocate with
us. Mr. Bancroft, the American minister, had presented a
letter to Lord Palmerston, stating that respecting every con-
cession and the removal of every impediment the American
government were prepared to give perfect reciprocity. His
right hen. friend was driven to nth difficulty for an argu-
ment that he referred to a report of a committee on light-
houses, of which he (Mr. Hume) was chairman, and
said that that report recommended protection to the British
navy. But his right ken. friend had not told the real truth
upon that subject. The question had nothing what-
ever to do with the navigation laws, nor with any
competition between this country and any other,
but related to the competition of railways as against the
coasting trade. British ships were paying 6 per oent. on the
carriage trade for the lighthouses, while the railways were
exempt from any such chirp, and thought that such an
Impediment was unjust and ought to be removed. He was
not therefore in hvour of but against restrictions, in using the
word proteetica. He was decidedly of opinion if the evi-
' dencelNWe them be true that the navigation laws were
suet injurious to the country, and that the t were
now doing what would promote the p ty of the country
sg full scope to capital and f employment to our
and tesimaterially totheimproventeatofouroolonies.
_...- • - - • -

Mr. 0. BAMIDIS said, the hon. member who had just
sat dews bed sanded to the low pries of food ; but what was
the advenlige of that to the litreu, ft he could get no
mosey ea May it I (Hear, hoar.) That was the question
which appeared to Ma to arise on the pentad atm-
non. Hs bed been street with that pert of the
introductory 'peaof the right hen. gentleman Mr. La-
boueoherewalowhia Mated that the lawmen of Amides wore
hus
ma diligent son, alibi theat at this 'sentry,
whose Meer he passed le emmende, were of a mal
site demallen—MlNl 111111 WWI ONVIiiRe unlawful enl
hostel aseshimatisns te mho ea aim be Imposed
to ethenbee ma by diem Into
titian ask the Mounts Amseim ( , beer.r.4
yam no insouragement M them wise has to live by their la-
bour to tido ninny and iM masurred with the boa. =MP
bar for Surrey (Mr. Drummond) that this was the last of a
wise a asemives all divested against the labour of this
otrontry. (Hoar, hear.) The principle was sow to
be adopted of baba everything la the cheapest market
—Mom masa* the rest ; and the free-tr,d.
Wks was olserly a series et ammo he thes
of the labourer, of which this weal /wbabl~ the
I last, biome
nano further Win seal be indicted.
The WWI, illbg be bm~ by this zaware
bat was thatMidst* te mentsaideme the evil it would in-
Met ? And weal set the mamba annett_ rather wait for

that turn in pin Milan, tibia wse rapidly bi
to give them a Whir 11111 i MOM eident system efZeiltei
Ca THOMPSON said that awn two tides of an amembly
like that deelend Ina very oppodts opiates, sod each with
snob bided in thefr truth, it almost always hap.
period *a same prialpie had been overrated, or at last
not hiety mini and hid open in the ems of contest.
He appended Wes was a ratunderstandier on the op-
posite disot theheme es to the principle ad& his side of
dm hawse matelebed. In simple words, they maintained
that protection, emu from which tide it woad, always
meant giTing a shilling for sixpennyworth ha return. Oa
that het they were quite ready to stake any credit with the
country whisk tAey pomemod ; and if they had any such
credit (and they lad este), it vim entirely because the large
eremite' of the country had been thoroughly indoctrinated
With that pried* They did not believe that to give a
'billies to ream tepees in rota* was, or could be or
ewe was, or ever would be, either sound policy or "AM
ammurcial wisdom. (Hear, hear.) The ',halo Teethe
resolved heel( into this : semi mane industry was to be put
a stop to, in order to increase the produce of some other
man's industry, with the UM° quid, it he might so call it,
of seaseng being denied as the rise of the ads-named
protection. (Haar.) Was it not that every omnibus
which received it. sixpenny
ha put down one of the
venerable hackney-coachmen, who proposed to do
the era work far la. ed. (Hear, -heir. hear.)
Why was Shit stquieoul hi by ... nn

- -
THE EXPRESS, EXPRESS, THURSDAY Ettlir, FEBRUARY- lq. 184?
,! t-- \ P.. ' " ,
. - - to Matoshisd ear, demiltßa% 'and 3o obt- the last.. 'Ober.) 'SOW. et., I
I ..... MO ~ id OS &thefts thetas righebon.,
t 7, d• ' Thi(tdiiN'dytiettm Tellsiiieed tt i tip to 't c hare to he die
a ... .' Me 1141"1 'lsals dadads td pain 0 • ad he his
II . - ,
vto neeestres, , altbiliqh tilt fp tip tal pie I mud ot the
the ma Pd dinirl nt be x.i. ofrectlvi it may )-11 Use mud prima*
li 11.6 ineila• of TrailleedddiYlNtlk tor 47 lof der
amnesiac laws, it is acressery I should state that it
I, Wended to isle a seatement. first to the is era that fundamental principle *is measure must stand
a idea. the lest te Won I laid on e table a or fell. (Hoer.) I must recall the attention of the
g • gaspostin= and I latemied in *woman of tones to Mat pert of , the guestkm, the aunt imential
it this to selideeeses it with sums altsretions, to toe with retirees* to the navigation levernasely, why
a and sleZtiee hope of lisingbg it speedily to a swam- they were made ant why they were retained ? Sir, the his-
' fel lime: The tutus tjestittbrery impeotentane of Ste tort of the navigation lm s, from the time that they became
. ..._.. _ .