The Express.
London, England, 1853-02-22 00:00:00

' P 53.

The hon. member for Manchester talks of the freedom of
the presto, and says that the proceeffinge of the late govern-
ment in regard to those transactions are maculated in their
effect to gag the press. True, this is, as the hon. vittle-
man dates, a free country, where every man is hie to
write and publish what he likes; provided, however, it is
not against the law; but if he publish anything that is
against the law, or opposed to the interests of the country,
it is then the duty of the government to interfere to punish
the offence. The hon. member for Manchester will par-
don me for sayinz that I look upon the Peace Society to he
a society of well-intentioned fanatics—("hear,"and a laugh)
—much too good to be entrusted with any politic.el fuuc-
, tions in this wicked and simple world. (Renewed cheering
and loud laughter.) And I would entreat my hon. friend
who asked the question, to use his influence, as a man of
good understanding and practically conversant with public
affairs, to induce his peace-preaching colleagues in the
society to be a little less pugnacious than they hive recently
shown themselves. (Great laughter and cheers.)
After a few observations from Colonel Bounnto and
another hon. member whose name was not ascertained, the
' subject dropped.
Captain BOLDERO then rose to propose, as an amend-
ment to the motion for going into committee of supply, a
resolution in reference to the insufficient accommodation
provided for assistant surgeons on board ships of war, but
The SPEAKER ruled that having spoken on the motion
before the house, he could not now move his amendment.

SUPPLY—NAVY ESTIMATES. --
The first Tote proposed was 137,2461., for the salaries of
officers and contingent expenses of the Admiralty-office.
On the motion that that sum be granted,
Mr. STAPLETON urged upon the government the im-
portance of considering the punishment of flogging in the
navy, with a view to its entire abolition, and the substitu
tion of some less rovoltina and demoralising mode of msin-
taining discipline.
Sir J. GRAHAM was desirous that every possible check
upon the undue exercise of Corp nal punishment in the navy
should be imposed. The subject lead occupied the attention
of all the different Boards of Admiralty that had existed
during the last ten years, and the result was, that every
check that experience could devise had been established,
and was rigidly carried into effect in the administration of
this description of punishment. In the first place, care had
been taken that it should not be inflicted in hot blood, by
requiring Hist 24 hours should elapse between the sentence
and the punishment. Then the number of lashes was
limited to 48, and it was required that all the circumstances
of the offence and the punishment should he recorded and
returned to the commanding officer of the station, and re-
mitted to the Admiralty, to be then revised by the naval
officer of the board, anti to be brought by him periodically
under review by the head of the department. And for
some yeah past it had been the practice of the Admiralty,
in forming their opinions of the merits of commanding
officers, to be guided very much by the efficient discipline
they had maintained with the smallest amount of corporal
punishment. (Cheers.) With regard to the substitution cf
imprisonment, it should be remembered, that in ships not
over-manned, to imprison any of the crew would be to in-
crease the labour, and thus inflict unmerited punishment
en the rest. He should rejoice if corporal punishment could,
consistently with the maintenance of discipline, be still
further restricted, but he entreated the house to weigh
well the danger that might result, before they pronounced
in favour of its total abolition.

Sir G. PECIIELL referred to the offices of Vice-Adnii-
ril and Rear-Admiral of Great Britain being held by
the two Admirals of the Fleet who had MI. a year more
than other admirals. There were only these four places to
be given among twenty or thirty admirals, and he thought
they ought not to be all sir/snowed up by two officers.
Sir J. GRAHAM explained that the holding of the offices
of Vice-Admiral and Rear-Admiral of Great Britain
and Admiral of the Fleet by the same officers was in the re-
rent instance accidental. The offices of Vice-Admiral and
Rear-Admiral of Great Britain were filled up by officers
who were selected for their distinguished services, while the
rank of Admiral of the Fleet was reached by seniority. It
so happened that Sir Brun Martin and Sir (Marge Cock-
burn had been chosen for the former offices, and had since
attained the rank of Admirals of the Fleet by seniority,
which was not likely to happen again.
Mr. HUME drew attention to the question of good ser-
vice pensions which were given by seniority, and one of
which would fall next in succession to Captain Lambert,
who it was by no means clear was not the cause of the
Burmese war. He thought that no officer should be placed
on the list without previous inquiry as to his services. He
begged to confirm the statement of the right hon. baronet
(Sir J. Graham) as to the determination of the committee
on the army and navy to retain the offices of Vice-Admiral
and Rear-Admiral of Great Britain, which were the only
offices of dignity and reward in that service ; and he only
regretted that there were fewer places of honour in the
navy than the army. The hon. member then urged that
the whole establishment of the Admiralty should be pl ,ced
under one roof, and complained of the badness
of the accommodation provided for the Admiralty
charts and the hydrographic department. He thought
the time was come when his right hon. friend
ought to turn it in his mind when he should bring the whole
Admiralty department under one roof. There were not
many things he should wish to borrow from France, but
there was one thing in that country which he admired, aid
that was, that the whole of the revenue department was
concentrated in one building. A gnat portion of the Ad-
miralty-office was taken up with the apartments of the
heads of the department. He thought that if residences
were provided for them elsewhere they might, witk a little
addition to the building, concentrate the whole business
there. Then the changes which took place on the change
of every administration was a great evil, each party that
came is being anxious to serve their own friends, and look-
ing to that object rather than to the efficiency of the service.
The present First Lord of the Admiralty knew more about
the business than any other man:, but, when the Duke of
Northumberland got into office, the gallant admiral the
member for Gloucester, who had a plan for manning the
navy, was removed, and the noble duke was obliged to have
recourse to strangers:He did not grudge the sum asked for,
because 157,0001. was not too much for the management of
7,000,0001.

Sir'J. GRAHAM said, his hon.:friend:bad raised several
points, and he would first discuss the point in which, in his
position, ho was personally interested, namely, the occu-
pation of the house. He believed his hon. friend was a
member of the committee on salaries. He (Sir J. Graham)
was summoned before that committee, and he certainly, at
that moment, considered nothing less probable than that
he should be again First Lord of the Admiralty. His
opinion was asked as to this house, and he stated that not
only from his own experience, bat from what Lord Spencer
had stated to him, he thought that considering the duty of
that particular board, it was indispensable that there
should be resident at the Admiralty the number of mem-
bers which constituted aboard; namely, that there should
be at least two lords of the Admiralty and the secretary.
That was the case when circumstances were somewhat dif-
ferent from what they were now, but when they looked at
the present state of things, when messages came by the
electric telegraph in five minutes, in many cases requiring
an immediate answer, there was the greatest advantege in
having the decision of the Board of Admiralty with dis-
patch. Then it was recessary that the business should be
commenced early—before ten o'clock in the morning,
and it was necessary, if they were to have a parliamentary
government, that the different departments should be re-
presented there ; and as they often did not get away from
that house till 2 o'clock in the morning, it would be impos-
sible, if they had any distance to go, to be at the office by
half-past 9in the morning. Re agreed with his hon
friend that it was not well to have an entire change of the
naval board. The late government thought proper not to
supersede Captain Milne, and he, too, thought it best to
keep him in office, and so with regard to Admiral Parker.
He did not thick, however, that any government could
satisfactorily conduct their affairs without an intermixture
of their political friends, but this touched a large question,
which he could not now enter upon. With regard to ano-
ther point he agreed with his hon. friend. He conceived
that true economy was generally to be found in efficiency,
and he might go further, and say he thought the concentra-
tion of all the Admiralty departments into one office would
be advantageous. Hi/ hon. friend referred to another
country. In that country they had immense advantages ;
be believed they '
had double the number of clerks. [Mr.
Hume—No.] However, the hon. member must make up',
kis mind to vote a very large sum indeed, if he wished to
remove the whole of the department from Somerset-house
to Charing-cross.
Mr. VERNON asked whether it was intended to make
any further use of Goldner's preserved meats in the navy,
and whether any other contract had been entered into for
that purpose.
Sir J. GRAHAM said there was no quantity of Goldner's
preserved meat now in store ; there was no fresh contract
entered into, nor about to be entered into, for a further
supply and no preserved meat was now used in the navy,
except in very small quantities, as comforts for the sick.
He might add that steps had been taken to proceed against
Mr. Goldner and his sureties for the penalty.
Capt. SCOBELL complained that so large a proportion
of the promotion was by party influence. He spoke in the
presence of three admiralties, who were well ewers of the
truth of this statement, and that there were hundreds and
thousands of officers in the English navy who had no hope
of promotion. Who represented the army there ? No one
but the Secretary at War. Would not the same thing do
with regard to the navy ? The First Lord of the Admiralty
should not be a political character. It was impossible for
him to act independently in promotions if he were a politi-
cal character.

Sir F. T. BARING said he felt it his duty to give
solemnlya complete contradiction to the statements of the
hon. and gallant member. He could assure the house dis-
tinctly and solemnly that while he was in office promotions
in the navy were not made the means of political patronage,
either for rewarding one side, or for gaining the other. He
believed he might say fairly, that he never promoted any
one on political grounds at all.
The vote was agreed to.
The next vote was 34,9391. to defray salaries in the iciest-
rifle department.
Mr. E. ELLICE said it appeared strange to object to a
reduction, but there was one in this vote which he thought
was not wise. In the report on the navy expenditure in
1848, there was evidence that the survey of our coasts was
M a moat disgraceful state. Indeed, the hydrographers said
as regarded the coast of Scotland, they knew more of the
coast of Otaheite. There was a diminution in the
vote by about 15,0001., and was the survey to
be postponed to save so paltry a sum as that?
That led him to make an observation with reference to the
publication of charts. That subject was before the com-
mittee, and it was stated that surveys were completed and
Rent to the Admiralty, where they remained for six or seven
years without tieing published, and therefore useless. The
nydrogrApher said he was responsih:e for the correctness of
the charts, and he could not bring his mind to let anything
go out of the office till he had looked at it, and that his

time was taken up with hi+ duties of Barbour toaster, but
as a new department, the tidal harbaur depattinent, was to
he created, he would Fare three-f itirths of tae time now de.
Toted to that office. The surveys, however, still remained
in the office. Since 1811. thirty-seven charts bad been com-
pleted and sent to the Adtiiir,:ty, of which Indy eißhtten
had been published. He thought somethin4 should be done
to remedy this state of things,. Sumo of these charts had
been published wi!ltin a mo::th, while others remained in
the office six years. _ _

Sir J. Glatt AM said the latter part of the observatiotui
of the hou. member justified him in the statism he had
made. It was said there was a large accumulation of sur-
veys made some time ago, nod not yet pub:ished. Now,
what was the use of a survey unless it was tested, mid if
it was not tested they could not publish it, and it thee did
not publish it it was of no use. Ile thought that the allow-
ances made to the surveying officers were much too large,
and be had taken steps to reduce them. When he was at
the Admiralty, years ago, a certain officer was employed
in surveying the river Themes. When he returned to the
office, after a lapse of 22 years, he found that same officer
still employed sure eying the river Thames. (Laughter.)
Mr. HUME thought it was a very discredi able circum-
stance that any of our coasts should still remain unsurveyed.
The right lion. gentleman (Sr. James (izahain) had alluded
Ito a chart which had oeen made ten years age, but which
had not yet been publ she d. Now, that chart had very
probably cost 10,0601., and a p sltry sum of 4S 01. more for
engraving would have given it to the public. What the
right hoe. gentleman ouglit to do wou'd not be to stop the
surveys, but to employ more persons is the hydrographic
department. (Heer, hear.)
Sir J. GRAHAM said that if they required Admiral
Beaufort, the hydrographer, to authenticate a chart which
he had nut himself verified, he would resign his office. Ile
(Sir J. Graham) had asked for the vote for only 6 months,
in order that he might have time to see whether any im-
provements could be introduced into the department.
Atter some further conversation, in the course of which
Mr. litue expressed a hope that the price of the Natti..ra
Alnumack would be reduced to 20. fid., the vote was
agreed to.
On the next vote—namely, a sum not exceeding 134,2301.
for her Majesty's naval establishments at home
Mr. TUFNELL drew attention to the subject of the
wages paid to the shipwrights and other i.ttierans in the
royal dockyards. 01 late there had been a considerable
rise in the remuneration of labour generally ; and he was
convinced that in no private establishment men could be
kept at such a low rate as is. a day, the amount paid to the
Queen's shipw rights.
Mr. COLLIER concurred in the observations of the hon.
gentleman, and said he understood that men had left the
dockyard at Dovonport.
Sir J. GRAHAM assured the committee that the sub.
jest had occupied the most serious attention of the board.
It was the duty of the government to see that no more was
spent than was absolutely necessary ; and he was happy to
say that, not only was there n t a single vacancy in the
dockyards, but that the men were all well satisfied. It
should be recollected that in case of oecidente they were
allowed half-pay and medical attendance ; and if the dock-
yards were justly administered, promotion would be open
to every one employed in them. (Hear, hear.) In fact,
the late Surveyor of the Navy had risen to that important
office from the station of an humble shipwright. (Cheers.)
These were considera'ions that must weigh with the men ;
but, at all events, the board were certainly not prepared to
increase the rate of wages. (Heer, hear.)
Captain BOLDER() wished to bring under the notice of
the house the case of the assistant-surgeons in the navy, to
whom great injustice had been done. In 18;0, he pro-
posed and earned a resolution in the house, which declared
that the accommodation provided for the aesi.dent-surgeons
was inadequate and insufficient to secare the full benefit of
their peolos.iunal services. The right Lon. gentleman
(Sir F. Baring) gale him an assurance on the part of the
government that he was disposed to carry that resolution in-
to effeet,anil he knew the right hon. gentleman was perfectly
sincere in making that deciara.ion. He did not bring the
subject forward whilst the late government were in office.
Ile was anxious to test the present Board of Admiralty on
this question. A memorandum had been issued which was
extremely offensive to the assistant-surgeons, and was con-
sidered an insult to the whole medical profession of the king-
dom. It was therein ordered that assistant-surgeons who had
served more than thtee years, and had passed the examina-
tion for surgeons, should rank next to naval surgeons, and
mess with the ward-room officers. So far so good. But
now came the pinch. They were to be allowed cabins when
the snare on board would permit. Thus the whole matter
was left to the Admiralty, in spite of the resolution of the
house. From a return which he had received frsm the

Mediterranean station, it appeared that of twelve assistant-
surgeons who were named only five had received cabins, and
of these five only two shared in those little a•lvantages which
were enjoyed by the other officers in the ward-roem. It was
than the Admiralty bad carried out the resolution passed by
the house in 18.30. The result of the existiog system was
that the elite of the studeats in the medical calleges of Lon-
don, Edinburgh, and Glasgow, shunned the navy ; they
would not consent to go for three years into a cock-pit,
where study would he almost impossible. How would the
government obtain assistanesurgeens in the event of a
sudden war ? He believed the state of things would he
similar to that which existed is 1809, es described in a lec-
ture lately delivered by Sir George Barringall at Edin-
burgh. In the evidence of Mr. Guthrie, which was quoted
by the lecturer, it was stated that at that period qualified
assistant•surgeons could not be obtained, and that, instead
of raising the price, the Admiralty deteriorated the article,
and took medical officers of an inferior description,
who acted solely order a warrant similar to that of a boat-
swain. As an illustration of the working of this system,
Mr. Guthrie mentioned that a man who was violently
drunk having been fastened down while lying on his back,
had an emetic administered to him in that position, and the
surgeon not knowing, or not remembering, that the posi-
tion of his patient ought to be changed, death took place
within two hours. Was it desirable to risk a repetition of
such scenes by disgusting young men with the service ? He
had further to complain of the injustice of dividing the
assistant surgeons into two sections, and would like to
know by what authority it was done.
Admiral BERKELEY said, as one who was a member
of the Board of Admiralty in 1850, he could not help
thinking that the hon. and gallant gentleman must almost
be disposed to regret the course which he then pursued.
How would he like, as colonel of a regiment, to have his
regiment regulated by *Laval officer ? Tho majority in
favour of the alteration was very small, and every naval
officer voted in the minority. He (Admiral Berkeley),
however, assured the house at the time that, wherever
cabins could be afforded to assistant-surgeons, without
trenching on the comforts of the men or impairing the effi-
ciency of the ships, they should be provided ; and, in con-
tradiction to what the hen. gentleman had stated, he beg-
ged to say that that pledge had been redeemed. The hon.
gentleman had spokon of the cock-pit. He almost doubted
whether he knew where it was. At present surgeons (as
was understood) were not placed in that part of the ship;
but there was a time when surgeons were in the
cock-pit; and it was no alight circumstance that
it had produced such men as Sir William Bur-
net, Sir James Anderson, and Sir James Clark.
The hon. member had quoted other cases to which he was
not able to give an answer, further than that he had full
reliance in the discretion and judgment of the surveyors of
the navy. The gallant member was endeavouring to create
dissatisfaction in the navy by exciting the assistant-surgeons
against the mates, their superior officers—the mates, who
wanted quietness as much for their studies as the surgeons.
And he could assure the gallant officer that the gun-room
was much more noiry than the ward-room, seeing that the
young marine officer was generally either a fiddler or a
fluter, and seriously interfered with studies of the mates in
navigation. (A laugh.) As to scarcity of candidate., he
could assure the gallant officer that 54 had been appointed
in two years. The fact was, that the assistant-surgeons
were well paid, and exceedingly well off.
Mr. HUME regretted that all the naval officers in the
►ouse severally supported the governmeat in preventing
the assistant-surgeons of the navy from receiving the treat-
ment of gentlemen. He trusted that the gallant officer op-
posite would persevere until justice was done by the go-
vernment to this intelligent and ill-treated claw of officers.
Mr. OSBORNE said that the division to which the gal-
lant officer had referred was a surprise : and on that occa-
sion the hon. member for Montrose admitted that it was a
question of details—the fact being that it was solely a
question of space. The gallant member opposite had also
referred to a lecture on the state of the navy delivered in
1809: but how much had been done for naval medical
officer. since that time? A commission, comprising the
most distinguished names, among others the Dikes of Wel-
lington and Richmond, had sat in 1811, and their report
with reference to this point was that there were insuperable
practical difficulties in the way of providing separate
cabins for the assistant surgeons. Since that time separate
mess-rooms had been provided for the mates, assistant-sur-
geons, and passed clerks, when they objected to messing
with the midshipmen. In 1851 further improvements had
been effected, and were still going on ; but he persisted
in the observations with which he had started, namely,
that the favourable division of 1850 was a surprise, and
that the question was one of details, which should be left to
the discretion of the Admiralty.
Captain BOLDERO vindicated his motives in bringing
forward the subject, and
Captain SCOBELL defended the present regulations.
It should be recollected, he said, that every cabin must
contain a gun, and there was nothing hampered ships more
in clearing for action than a multitude of cabins. In his
opinion, the assistant surgeons were very well off.
After a few words from Mr. rxeeoee, the vote was
agreed to.
The next vote was,
22,7611., to defray the naval establishments abroad.
In answer to a question from Mr. ii.VME,
Sir J. GRAHAM said that the increase in the expenses
of the dockyards at home was a necessary consequence of
the increase in the number of men voted.
683,648 t, wages to artificers, &c., at home.
Mr. HUME asked whether the men in the dockyards
were trained to the management of great guns ?
Sir J. GRAHAM said that the whole of the dockyard
men were so trained, and had already exhibited great
efficiency.
Vote agreed to.
3.3,5661., artificers, &e. abroad. Agreed to.
1,023,0111., naval stores fur building and repairing
ships, &c.
Sir J. GRAHAM (in answer to Mr. Hume) said he had
been surprised, after the accusations directed ~gainst him
when at the Admiralty before for reducing the stores too
low, now to hear an accusation of an opposite character.
The increase in the present estim :tes arose not from an
actual increase cf stores, but from the inereased price of
iron, timber, copper, and other artich; is iron the in•
crease was as much as 70 or SO per cent.
Captain SCOBELL made some remarks on the name. of
our vessels of war, and the motion was then agreed to.

for new works, improvements, and repairs in
111 Me. objected to the new works at Jersey and ;
aid it was like throwing money into theses.
11/.;leetiriii:nad il.kBl said that a diatinguiehed naval officer
had hr; n hut ....wit instructed to inspect thous weeks, and
t tere in to the government.
IThr";;tv thee agreed to, as were the following votes
for medicine, and medical stores.
r' '71., misidoleacoue sereins.
ee,a. ),
".••• for reserved half-pay and retirement to officers
eft navy and Royal Marines.
og this rote,
Ur • E made some remarks, in a conversational
111.:U
to the propenty of limiting promotion to those who
:'l "
were able to serve. Ile referred to the examples io ludia
ef ie. &vent
general talkers, and said the system loudly
eyed foe titer/UO.I.
Sai.
(fH• allAbl was understood to say that the promo.
hoe in the e &trent list of admirals had been limited to 100.
J. B. SMITII sad he observed there were some lieu-
u.seen sad masters in the half-ply list who were in holy
(Laqhter.) After these gentlemen had sheathed
°L1:;--ewaeils, and gone iuto another profession, he thought
their helf-psy ought to be discontinued.
?!r. COWPER gave some explanation.
Likes few words from Mr. 11t:
couj2 SCOBELL said that 'di cadets had been ad-
aitt,4 last year, though it was understood the number
was to be huetel to .5. la the last eleven years, 1.453
had been admitted, while only between 400 end 500
h,e;ensets had been roted. Ile thought it would be
y r. line t phe annual admissious below 7a, pro-
• - be sufficient. Thu mates were 150 mote
this I ae ar.
p sir J. eildellAel said that though the number of ad-
mi„sous had been limitol by the Admiralty to 75, the in-
mast had arc-an :VIM nominations by the captains of ships
put la comia.eikei. The number of mates who had nut
pared promotion was not greater than before.
The vote wit. agreed to.
4:.:41341. for tuoitary pensions and allowances.
Mr. HUME thoaght that a large expenditure might be
glued ea Greenwicn ltoepitd. The payments were very
we. There were four commissioners—he should be glad
to know what they did.
Yr. co W E lt said they had responsible duties, which
fully marina their time.
eir J. GRAHAM said the pensions to those individuals
had nothing to do with their office in Greenwich Hospital.
The vote was agreed to.
10,3 We, for civil pensions and allowances, was next
toted.
Ou the next v )•e, 152,9501., for vi:tualling ships and for
the freight of ship. for the conveyance of troops and stores,
le reply to Sir F. BAIUNIII,
sir J. GRAHAM said In had every reason to believe
that the KIM. now granted fur the current year would not
be era:roe:4 a margin being allowed to avoid it.
A.e ref w words from Mr. lie sea,
Sir J. GRAHAM said this vote properly belonged to the
array, but was secluded in these estimates for tho purpose
of naive:eau. '1 ho amount had been increased in cense-
glean of the necessity of providing for the accommodation
of the soldiers during their conveyance from one country to
another on ship hoard under hatches. Formerly provision
we. only Mae below for one-third of the men at a time,
which was found to be a very great hardship upon them in
Wig Tqal".
After a few words from Sir W. Jouarre,
The rote was agreed.
The report of the votes of supply granted on Friday was
brought up, nod agreed to.
BLAND JURY CESS (IRELAND) BILL.
TNis bill was read a third time, and passed.
OFFICE 01' EXAMINER (COURT OF CHANCERY)
BILL.
On the motion for the committal of this bill,
Mr. MI:LLINGS intimated that if the committee were
sow taken merely pro forma he would bring forward
the smeedeneuts he toad given notice of at a subsequent
stage.
The SOLICITOR•GENERAL was prepared to take the
ameadeseuts on the report on the third reading, but ob-
jected to going into committee merely pro forma.
Mr. PRISM called attention to some defects in the bill
of last session for alteriug the mode of taking evidence
chameery—as for nuance the examiners, while they
were directed to take oral evidence, had no power to decide
what was sod what walnut evidence. Again, in crues-ezthsi-
mine, ON person cruse-examined nod sootier judged of the
evidence. Ile suggested that the examiners should have a
jadicial rather than a ministesial position ; and he also re-
marked that, ia the primal uncertain state of the law with
regard to the contimeemos of their offices, those who ex-
cepted them ought got to look for compensation on their
moral.
Mr. WALPOLE Ihonght the 3rd clause which pro-
vided fer eompeneaties to =miners appeiata subsequent
Mintiest at, se Anwar mold not men the
in-
boded; sad be oho esinsidend it a maw pI M'toFo-
lds empeutiatioa foe a enimistedel lin. after only 16
pesee swim.
TbehOLICITOR-GENISMAL end the inn the right
hen. awl learned gentleness eldeMeltawaeepiallWnlly
hem the aluters' Abolition Anteing modem.
The bran then went into mennithee em the hill.
The house then went into
Clause I was agreed to.
On clause 2,
Mr. 14CLLINGS moved to melt the clause, on the
ground that it introduced a new principle into bills of the
kind, and because it precluded solicitors from being sip-
pointed to the office of examiner.
Mr. IIUItItOUGII supported the amendment, and com-
plained that models legislation had tended to exclude
solicitors from legal offices in favour of banisters.
The committee divided.
For the clause
Against it
Mr. MULLINOS moved that the chairman report pro-
gress, and urged on the Solicitor-0e I to consent to the
postponement, in order to consider the amendments pro-
posed, and promised that no undue obstruction should be
aired to its further progress.
The BOLICIIOH-GENERAL assented, and the house
resumed.
NEWSPAPER STAMPS.
Mr. BROTHEItTON moved for a retsina of the num-
ber of newspaper stamps, at one penny, issued to news-
papers in England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, for 1851
sad 1852 specifying each newspaper by name, and the
amber Of stamps issued in each of the above years to each
newspaper (sis continuation oh Parliamentary Paper, N 0.42
of Session 1852). There was a return made last session
similar to the one he now moved fur, and his object was to
continue that return for 18.51 and 1832. He did, not anti-
cipate any opposition, for he saw no public ground why it
should be refused. It was an exceedingly useful return.
Mr. WILSON hoped his boo. friend would not persevere
Of asking for this return. It wee true that a number of
L essilage rename of this kind were annually laid before the
Thee enamel pintails wag adopted in 1837, and it
wee Amps& at the solleitatfon of a large number of the
preptdefore of aewuraperes, because it was an exposure of
their private Inmeeetions, but when the cenunittee on
newspaper stamps In 1862 was sitting, a return was laid
before them, and It was printed in the appendix to their
report. They did net object to lay before the bone what
related to the revenue, but they thought they
were booed to resist a motion which would nem-
lardy expose the private transactions of traders.
Apply the principle to other trades. Suppose, for instance,
that they were to publish the quantity of spirits manufac-
tured by each distiller. He should have no objection to
before the house the number of Seoteh, Irish, and English
papers, and the number of Leedom weekly and daily papers,
so that they should be given as a class, and that the return
sbosld not interfere with the transactions of private indi•
'ideals.
Mr. T. M. G lI3SON was chairman of the committee to
which the hon. gentleman had referred, and the committee
were unaaimou in calling for the return, being perfectly
aware of the vain of it. In supporting this motion,
he might state that no other form would give such
satisfactory information. If incidentally to the production
of the return certain information were gives, they had at
least this satisfaction, that the information was nothing but
teeth. It merely told the world what was the circulation of
Particular newspapers. That was his object in supporting
the motion. Advertisers would then know in what publa-
mhos& they got most for their money ; and inasmuch as
parliament required advertisers to pay a duty on advertise-
ments, parliament almost took upon itself the duty of in-
forming the public what were the best papers to adver-
tise in.
Mr. GLADSTONE quite admitted that this return was
commonly read with the greatest interest, bat at the same
time he hoped the house would pause before acceding to the
motion. It was rather a strong circumstance that making
this return was at one time usual, and that it was delibe-
rately abandoned by the house, and it had never been re-
sumed by the authority of the house. The subsequent
Publication of the return was an act, and perhaps a hasty
act, of a select committee. At any rate the govern-
ment had not the opportunity of considering it, and it
was a Proceeding which took the newspaper arthprieton
by surprise. The right hon. member for Manchester
argued that the return ought to be made Deanne it was •
matter of interest to advertisers, and because it would
reveal nothing but the truth. Now if the return did re-
veal the truth, that was not of itself a conclusive reason
that it ought to be nude. It was not the practice of that
teem, without some strong and overruling public interest,
to puhlish the private affairs of individuals. The right hon.
gentleman referred to the case of insurance cora-
Peen. They were joint-stock companies, sad the
house had always made it a role to ex-
ercise strict vigilance over the affairs of joint-stock
companies. The question was, whether they were e'd de-
Int from the general rule which they observed in other
aril, and make the proprietors of newspapers an excep-
tional cue. The right hon. gentleman mud the return
would be interesting. No doubt it would, and so would
the returns of the names and amounts in schedules C and
It would enable many persons to know who were sol-
vent, and whom it was safe to trade with ; but the house,
notwithstanding that, would not agree to such a return.
And further, the observation that the return would reveal
nothing but the troth, must be taken with some consider-
!ble qualification. Undoubtedly, if the return were required
fora lung period of years, it would snow something like the
~'rall3, but when they called for this return for a short time
way gave an opportunity to proprietors of newspapers to
141 is a consideralde stock of stamps, and thereby to make
appear that their circulation was larger than in reality
'1 was. He hoped the house would not agree to this
Me. HI:ME was surprised at this objection. Dr. Bow-
tins moved fur this return for a series of years, and it was
act objected to. Ile held the rule in parliament to be that
bQ Ititistical returns of revenue which were required should
'add in the table. lie 'build say that when he

advertised he had a right to know where he could get his
pennyworth fer a penny, and he could only know that by
knrwing which paper had the best circulation.
The motion wag thou withdrawn.
MANNING TILE NAVY.
Mr. STAFFORD moved for copies of the report of, anal
evidence taken by, a committee appointed by the late
Board of Admiralty on the subject of manning the navy.
Sir J. GRAHAM said the report we. very lung, and was
only completed on Saturday, and he had not yet seen the
evidence. He hoped the motion would not be pressed.
The motion war withdrawn, and the house adjourned at
twenty minutes to one o'clock.

ieltr ervrefliS.

TO iuttIiMPONDUNTB.

te•oud Fditlon " The Ezprete," coetaTZiieie nate 'nape's
Casette," o. rn.lgisted every I oteday ia.l Friday eight. to time
for pmt.
,erteeteextetn/entled 'te "The zorne," Lee :ea Iteenia, raw,
teat the tillce. In. Uterine-inn, 'fy Tire o'eteck ea the
thy of paltheation.

tilOti WATER AT LONDON BRIDGE.
Iso Dar —Slimming. la. len...„....Aftensest. lb. not.
l',Atesaow—Merbbill. 1L S 4. Atiornoce. La. Wm.

LONDON, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 22.

LORD Jowl RUSSELL declared on Friday night
that there arc two subjects on which he feels a spe-
cial interest; and that one of them is the education
of the people. We are promised some considerable
extension of the means of education this session.
There is a daily increasing number of persons, we
hope and believe, who are eager to know whether in
the ministerial scheme there is a place for those who
are most in need of whatever the Government and
the nation can do. It is now known beyond the
wallsof Itlgged Schools, and the beat of the constable
and the district oldie city missionary, that "the per;ah-
ing and dangerous classes" of children are so fearfully
on the increase, that the dealing with them has be.
come a question of public safety. A thief of 28, who
had been pursuing his vocation for half his life, and
who in those fourteen years was computed to have
stolen nearly 6,0001. in money, declared lately that
there are at least ten times as many boys employed
in picking pockets as when he " was young." Each
thief corrupts more ; and the way of return is closed
to all. Scarcely anybody knows what to do.
A committee of the Lords sat some years ago,
to inquire especially into the case of juvenile
offenders and transportation ; and their report
was founded on the testimony of magistrates,
judges, chaplains, governors of gaols, and others
who were supposed to have a practical knowledge of
the unhappy class which occasions so much grief and
perplexity. Nothing could be stronger than the ex-
pression of opinion on the part of the judges that
education of a high order, early administered, was
the only resourse. Yet nothing effectual has been
done. The magistrates know not what to do with
the young creatures who are brought before them,
many times in a year, and in increasing numbers ;
and the police are but Job's comforters in the case ;
for they tell of multiplying swarms in every town
throughout the country. To tell how prison is
no remedy, but quite the contrary, is so trite,
that nobody wants to hear it. NVe all know
that children sink lower, either there, or when
they come out, so branded, that they cannot
get work, or any kind of countenance from
society. Prisons have failed. Parkhurst has failed,
because it is a prison where tho boys are most un-
happy of all. The young creatures are far below
the reach of the educational aids of the Government,
as at present afforded. They are below even the
Ragged Schools. A Ragged School may, at its first
institution, include a good many of the perishing
and dangerous class; but in a little while the cha-
racter of the attendance rises, and the most wretched
class drops out at the bottom. The young creatures
are off in their wildness to prey upon their kind—
the girls to haunt fairs and markets all over half-a-
dorm counties, and the boys forming gang', and
drawing in and training little children of half their
own age. All this is going on; and we go on ad-
ministering prison—pnson—still prison, after we
have all lost faith in prison; and just bemuse
warmly anybody has anything else to propose.
Happily we need no longer say that absolutely
nobody has anything better to propose. There is infor-
mation and guidance ready for Government if they will
receive it and act upon it. Tho late Mr. FLETCUEII,
one of the Government inspectors, earnestly pressed,
in his latest reports, for aid to Ragged Schools and
free Day Schools, in which the existing conditions
of Government aid could not, from their nature, be
fulfilled ; and his representations must have prepared
the Committee of Privy Council for the memorial
they have received from the committee of the recent
Birmingham conference. This memorial prays for a
modification of the usual conditions of aid, for grants
to masters and monitors who are proved fit for their
position in Ragged Schools, though not for the exa-
mination, which is an essential condition of the grant
in other cases.

I Much may be done in this way; but, as we have
said, the existing Ragged Schools do nut meet the
case of the worst sufferers under our social neglect.
Some alternative to the jail is wanted, for the relief
of the magistrate, the welfare of the culprit, and the
safety of society, when the career of guilt has been
actually entered upon. There are industrial schools
here and there, supported by private charity, where
forlorn and guilty wanderers can be taken in and
fed and employed : but the young creatures may not
choose to go—or they may not choose to stay ; and
nobody has any right to deposit or detain them
there; and nobody contributes to their support while
1 there but the charitable founders. There are also a
few reformatory establishments, supported in the
same manner; and great would be the relief to the
magistrates if they could send young delinquents there
instead of to prison. But, in the first instance, there
is no authorised support given to the schools,
nor power of compelling attendance; and in the
second case, the magistrate has no committing
power. Some magistrates have made bold to remit
the legal punishment, on the understanding that the
culprit would enter a reformatory school; but if the
culprit refuses, the next hour, to go, the magistrate
can do nothing more. Tho remedy for these mis-
chiefs and miseries fairly enters into a Government
scheme of Education ; and the probability is, that no
part of the scheme would pass so sully, because the
peril and nuisance are so great as to throw the usual
theological difficulties into the background. Will the
Government consider the suggestions offered by those
who have devoted many years and a world of thought
and care to the subject P These advisers have at
least one title to attention that nobody denies them,
or attempts to divide with them they have
actually reformed juvenile delinquents. Having done
this, they are entitled to the most respectful atten-
tion when they point out what measures would
enable them to reform many more. They ask for
Industrial Feeding Schools, where forlorn and wan-
dering children may be compulsorily brought, and
fed in return for work ; and that when the parents
of the children are able to pay for their maintenance,
they should be legally compellable to do so, and the
parish where there are no parents or other guardians.
They ask that power should be given to magistrates
to commit to reformatory schools, and to the go-
vernors of such institutions to detain the pupils.
Thus we have three classes of these unfortunate
children, with three proposed refuges. First,
there are the wanderers, neglected by parents,
and helpless in the streets. For these there
is the Ragged School, which should, as we said, be
aided by Government, and subjected to the kind of
inspection its peculiarities require. Next, there are
the young mendicants and pilferers, already subject
to police interference. For these, there is needed
the Industrial Feeding School, with compulsory
attendance, at the cost of the parents or the parish.
Against these are the young convicts, subject to sen-
tence from magistrate or judge. For these, there
should be the Penal Reformatory School, to which
the culprit may be committed, instead of being sent
to prison. And all should be subject to strict
Government inspection. Such are the suggestions and
the recommendations of the committee of the Birming-
ham Conference; and some such arrangements society at
large would like to see incorporated in the forth-
coming Government scheme of Educational Exten-
sion. If they were brought forward and adopted,
devout would be the thanksgivings of a whole army
of intelligent and humane magistrates, and vast would
be the relief to the national conscience, which would
work more cheerfully all day long, and rest better
every night, if this wild clement of our population
were brought in from its raging among the charnel-
houses of our civilisation, and were seen sitting among
us clothed; and in its right mind.

FRANCE.

PARIS, MONDAY Eveviso.
A Te Dewn was sung in the Cathedral of Vienna
yestenlay, the 20th instant, to return thanks to
Almighty God for preserving the life of the Emperor
of Austria from the hand of the assassin.
There has been a dull and inactive Bourse to-day,
and the Rentes have exhibited a declining tendency.
the Three per Cents. cloning 3c. lower, and the Four
and-a-Half 10e. less than on Saturday. Ihe official
list gives the following prices at the termination of
business this afternoon :—Four-and-a-Half per Cents.
for the Account, 103 E 90c. ; Threes, 80f. 60c. ; for
cash the former closed at 105 E 93c., and the latter
80f. 63c. Bank Stock, 2,805 f. Little or nothing
done in the latter, but a somewhat active bu.iness
11 was transacted in railway shares, for boon fide invest-
went, at a shade of improvement.

PARIS, SUNDAY EVENING.
An ordinance of ecclesiastical censure just issued
by the Archbishop of Paris, against the jesuitical I
and ultramontane journal the Unirers, contains some
extraordinary disclosares relative to the present state
of the church in France. If any open enemy of the
Roman catholic church had drawn such a picture of
its divided state as is now authoritatively
i promul-
gated, he would have been set down as an ntimous
calumniator. It is admitted by the Archbishop that
the church in France has long been delivered over
to agitation and trouble, that vain contentions and
violent disputes have taken the place of pacific con-
troversy and scientific and charitable discussion,
that the spirit of irreverence and contempt which
characterises the ago has at length installed itself in
the church, that dissensions, too often public,
scandalise the faithful and foment and en-
, courage presbyterian tendencies in the clergy,
that the younger members of the clergy
proclaim loudly that, with the aid of journalism and
Rome, they will make the bishops move, and that the
germ of an ecclesiastical revolution bus developed
itself in formidable proportions. For this state of
things his grace avers that the writers in the Univers
are mainly responsible. The immediate cause of the
censure now fulminated against the Univers is a
aeries of articles lately published in that journal,
criticising with great severity a hostile res icw written
by the Abbe Gaduel, Vicar General of Orleans, of a
theological work recommended by the Unirers. The
Abbe Gaduel's review appeared in a Galilean publi-
cation called L' dna de la Religion, between which
journal and the Univers a holy war has long been
raging. The Univers, that famous champion of the
catholic church, is accused by the Archbishop of having
insulted the person of the Abbe Gaduel, and calumniated
his faith, of indulging in sarcastic and scandalous
declamation against theological teaching, of heaping
insults upon certain bishops, and of having, under the
pretext of refuting the Abbe Gaduel, held up to ridi-
cule, in a style imitated from Voltaire, those priests
anetheologians that defend the church and free opi-
nions in the church in a manner consecrated by the
constant and universal custom of the catholic schools
of the world. But it appears that, although the
Archbishop now speaks out at the instance of the
Abbe Gaduel, vast numbers of his clergy, including
several bishops, have during the last three years
wearied their metropolitan with bitter complaints
against the self-elected lay champions of the faith
who persist in serving in the church after their own
fashion in the columns of a newspaper. The aid of
laymen, they say, may be very useful when proffered
in a humble, submissive spirit, but of the writers in
the Univers, they exclaim Non defensoribus istis tent-
pus eget. They particularly complain that the
Univers pays no attention to the rules of ecclesiasti-
cal controversy. A priest cannot publish a theolo-
gical argument, conducted according to the approved
system, but lo ! the Univers attacks him with an
utter disregard of all the canons of church fencing.
Like the chambermaid in the " Bourgeois Gentil-
homme," the Univers thrusts in tierce while it ought
to thrust in carte, and has not patience while its
adversary parries. In 1830 the Archbishop gave this
journals warning, and obtained from it an admission
of his jurisdiction to restrain the excesses of the
religious press, and a promise that it would be cir-
cumspect in future and moderate its language. This
promise having been, as the mandate states, wholly
disregarded, the Archbishop now renews his
warning, prohibits all the clergy and all re-
ligious communities in his diocese from read-
ing the Univers, prohibits, ander pain of suspension,
any priest belonging to or residing in his diocese
from writing is the Univers, or iu any manner tak-
ing part in its publication, and lastly, prohibits not
only the Univers but all other religious journals and
catholic reviews, printed in the diocese, from using
in a reproachful sense the words " ultramontano " or
gallican," and reminds catholic writers that nothing
relative to delicate theological questions should be
published without the consent of the ordinary, ac-
cording to canonical prescriptions. The decree,
moreover, threatens the Univers with the utmost
severity of canonical punishment if (" which God
forbid") it should dare to discuss the present sen-
tence. It is easy to collect, were the fact not other-
wise known, from the tone of part of the mandate,
that in attacking the Univers the Archbishop feels
he is provoking a formidable adversary, and not cen-
suring a subordinate out of the plenitude of his
authority. He admits the probability that many
bishops will not take the same view that he does
as to the propriety of the present measure, but he
reminds them that they, as well as the Univers, have
an appeal to Rome. It is essential, by the way, in
order to show the present aspect of this very pretty
quarrel, to mention that M. Louis Veuillot, the prin-
cipal editor of the Univers, and the writer of the
articles now incriminated, is at this moment, accom-
panied by an eminent jesuitical prelate, in close con-
saltation with the Pope at Rome, where, doubtless,
he is contriving schemes for the furtherance of ultra-
montane principles.
A letter from Rochefort of Feb. 16 says:—" The
building of the two screw steamers, Lucifer and
Megtera, recently put upon the stocks, is actively
going on. Orders have been sent to hasten the com-
pletion of the fine vessel the Ulm, which will
ultimately. be fitted with a screw. The steamer
Acheron is finishing her repairs in the basin, after
which she will be armed and proceed to the Antilles
station.

Tlurt' y-sx' military prisoners have just effected their
escape from Fort Lamalgue, near Toulon.
The Preue says of Lord John Russell's despatch to
Sir Henry Bulwer, relative to the affair of the
Madiai :

Official policy has rarely put forth each generous words,
and we believe that this despatch willremain a monument
of honour to the English people and the nineteenth century.
A nation which makes each a use of the ascendancy it has
acquired in the world, well deserves to be called a great
nation.

ITALY.
ROMAN STATES.
The Roman Journal of the 11th inst.

the departure of tho King of Bavaria from Rome for
Naples on the 10th. King Maximilian has not left
a very favourable impression on the court of Rome.
In his interviews with Pius IX., instead of kissing
the hand of the Pope, a tribute of respect which even
the arch-heretic Nicholas of ltussia did not with-
hold, the King maintained a stiff, soldier-like bear-
ing, and contented himself with paying ordinary ci-
vilities to the sovereign pontiff. 'fhe catholic jour-
nals denounce him as half a protestant, and the na-
tive Roman nobility have absented themselves from
his levees.