The Express.
London, England, 1847-06-11 00:00:00

In the better and cheaper navigation which the Thames
afforded over the Seine, and also in the command of cheaper
fuel. lie should like to know what was the cause of the dif-
ferent prices of bread in the various localities of the metro-
polis. 'There was, some time ago, a difference of 4d. in the
41b.100f awarding to the locality, which could not occur un•
lan In one place they sold bread much too dear, or in another
sold a very inferior quality. It had been said that competi-
tion would remedy these things, but he was afraid that
coutbination amongst some of the tradesmen of the metro-
polis was muck stronger than the principle of competition.
Mr. B. ESCOTT said that any order fur making sroond
bread would bo a most mischievous thing, as it would be the
most estravagant way in which wheat could be used. Biz
quarrel with the bakers was that good coarse bread was not
made in London—et least it wee not made in Westmin•ter.
It would be a great benefit to consumers in general, if bakers
could be induced to make such bread.
Atter• few words from Sir lla LACY EvaNs, the subject

dr:WePa:
RISONS BILL.—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
Mr. NEWDEOATE said that the sad state of things in
Van Diemen's Land and Norfolk Island, was owing
to the overcrowding of these places with convicts, with-
out taking any steps. to procure them employment. The
blame of this rested with the ministers, who, is 1839, pre-
cluded the possibility of giving criminals employment. He
believed that the step which had been taken in 1839,
was with a view to the abolition of transportation. This
he believed would prove a great misfortune to the country.
And for what were they called on to abandon it? To adopt
a mixture of two systems, both of which bad failed in the
countries in which they, were tried. He was prepared to
show that the system of solitary confinement had failed in
America, and that the system of lei &woos had failed in
France. He contended that the probation system hadnot • fair
trial, and Wel surprised that the system of transportation was to
be abandoned against the unanimous opinion of the judges.
Ms Gould not agree with the hon. member for Dumfries that
dm judges of the land brought microscopic minds to bear
*ea the question. What was the opinion of the judges ?
Lard Denman thought it would be most inexpedient to
abolish transportation as a punishment ; and said ]tea d not
think that any system of imprisonment would form effi
cient substitute. Justices Wightman and Erie were of a
similar opinion. In Scotland the Lerd Justice General and
Lord Justice Clerk had testified strongly in favour of the sa-
lutary effects of transportation in deterring others from the
commission of crime. The Irish judges declared that neat to
death, the punishment of transportation had the greatest
terror for the people. Chief Justice Blackburn con-
cluded a strong opinion by stating that in his
judgment no efficient substitute could he found.
Justice Pennefather said he considered the continuance
of transportation as a puoishmeut essential tlrelandreserva-
His
tion of life and protection to property in.
lordship had no faith in the efficacy of solitary confine-
ment, and the working of prisoners in public gangs
he considered inimical to the institutions and feelings of the
people of this country. Al to solitary confinement, he (Mr.
Newdegate) believed that it would prove a failure here, as it
had proved ia the United States. It had already been tried
in this country under the most favourable auspices, and what
had been the result? From Millbank, since the establish-
went of the solitary system, 40 lunatics had been sent is
Bedlam: while, during the preceding ten years, only 14
had been scat. Solitary confinement was a punishment
against which the stroagest intellect could only bear up he
• certain time ; it was one of which no one meld col-
onists the result, and therefore it was one which
no case anent would be justified in establishing.
With alga te the silent system, the case was differeot.
Thilt"..:Leaskiexperionoll.
fii"."yeerilualleseeiranii.diels"Ltbs:sabw Laskidect:andthw hostile thlre
fttionep:ihireneStle e:dhmearc.T, fourHi
t.
(Mr. Now stl) thought it far preferable to, the system of
solitary seainatalS. The hen. member proceeded to
quote at some Vega leihneads in favour of the silent and
the selary gets., s the latter was carried on at
vine. Agar the net be meutioned the testimony
stspemea SPAM' Zarieen, *reformed convict,who said that
dr pear oar at Pentonville turned out the worst coa-
, NW Beath Wales. The same authority said that
I the greeter obits Pentonville proved themselves the
most vicious I. the edema, and the Comptroller-General
and Sir B. Wilma enemsed in this opinion. The latter
gentleman, in slating to these convicts who had suffered
uc der the solitary system in this country, said that they
appeared invariably oppressed in spirit. Looking to this
evidence, then, knowing as be did from personal observation
that the separate system had failed in America, seeing that
the silent system had succeeded in this country, that out of
thirty-one judges twenty-three were unable to give an
opinion, and that those who did offer opinions on the sub-
ject were divided, he trusted the government would pause I
before it adopted the plan propounded by the Secretary of
State for the Home Department, imposing as it would the
solitary system upon the great mass of offenders in this
country. If they did adopt it, they would be acting in igno-
rance of man's nature, and against the authority of him who
created mac, and who had declared " That it is not good
that man should be alone." (Hear.)
Mr. MILNES said that his honourable friend's re•
marks went enthely upon the ground that the govern.
ment plan abashed transportation, whereas the practical
bearing sites glen would be a modification of it, which the
&item @ethos rasa in Norfolk Island Polly justified, arising
as thee idiom lid, not from the conduct of those concerned
iit into operation, but from the fact that it was
into manage a penal colony at such a distance es to
ts=telnoreklioisitiol and superintendence of the
y accepted the plan as an experi-
' mat ado peat the executive, and in the fact of its being
en salamis., he had the excuse of the government for
net it a matter of more formal leeislauon. Respect-
=l,system, he was capable of adducing as much
to its favour as his hon. friend bad quoted against
it. The report of 1846, for instance, of the select committee
dine legislation of New South Wales, contained testimony
ua y in its favour—observing that the exiles were a
great and valuable additiOn to the colony, and that they
were • hardy and most useful class of men. Both silent and
solitary systems we yet in their infancy, and both, he ad-
mitted, required eansiderable modification ; but he could
net sanesr in the sweeping condemnation of the latter
' by his bon. triad alba Mat add:eared the honee.
Me. W. KILNS thseght that, before adopting the change
ors et lampaidla which it was proposed by
of to effect, doeconsideration ought
to beWe; IC= in whisk the existing system had
hoen mad into Ma in the penal colonies. Without
earoebing tame to thepesent er soy other government, he
beaus the eviie se alma to 'amenity which had been
abases to exist iss Naha NMI were attributable to the
bet alto/Woes in the ale of the trauma a the
emits sent out there, end to the want it ea
albilat superintendence ; and it ins est, thew
ha he eastaded, that become ma system was
bia epseedsa hem ends ea test
elespase to be weaki
Mt idol the adepteatal te passed pa. It bed
been said that the Mess were is bar ef as plan. This
he dried, and refined to the friars even by Mr. Hem
Perks, Mr. Jean Patera Yr. Beemaslidesess, end iltr.
Boron Rolfe, in maw ado prams pet to them by the
Mae of Leak Theme Iseroodjudges dared data ask
egiam h weld he isespelkwe to abolish taripersam,
aids bold to be the most effectual to roper mime of
taps lawn te the law, and err whisk led a
ast cab the criminah, bet waste the
alias la the courts of jean. Preen his
own azgamos as a chairman of quarter esselem,
be Imibb ate the same as the result of all he
had as k t e may el Benserset, where wire
had peak amalasdelesithe had resolved to
pass Melt Milleerrie=hriffeern:ZirSere a seoond time
emeterd. laa that this measure had not
hems morsidesell by the government. It was
anslesimosahltt lapse the judges and those who had to pro-
arm jedgmas, to pass • sentence which they knew
I wed& 111111. posedially be carried into effect. At
nee theetzmuct as address a Lat. Tracy, the
et er rasa ; iYf Ospe, the Gonna elllaw-
gate ; eed a Ilia 0=11:::overnor et 0011hoth-
le ffeiseso Me sonfols,
dada lempetran, enff was
whole dart d* maekaadawss
pa dap ef the law. On ihe besiteeded to these
one HMI bee. friend divided the Mess aria the
reeding of dap bills he should give him he media
scows
H. INOLIS said that while he gave the govern-
ment every credit for good intentions, he could not but sa-
-1 pieta of the peat loseovesiewee of discussing so large •
geishas as that of Is.. is on the motion far the
aseal makes its MR whisk bad really nothing to do with
it E. however, eldedwil to the proposed pa wads was
zrekhe delibesete opiates of all the jape a
est irehel, vats the exception of Mr!Vit
Pala, vibe lay pee • pada assent. He doubted who-
' tine the gemenment ha the semparrent opinion at the
odeedelpestaree eap mare them they bad those at tho
Voisheuesissimises anertiewes.a.
smibeselerthipetammeLlime%liaztgrogesethetemiflicateeik
soleme.fdthaisoniexietyltheek
("avowal&
of tesommtatia
bemeassibmwthearlsdisothialta:sadietbste pesesisriontry
of andtasmortaueithea the
might lave boss thessegbly Ile fair a
as it bed hitherto existed ; Ira thought it better than no
tempertation at all. He bpi reently are
ha • gentleman who lud bread 10,0001. in
amen's Lead, and whe had that pro.an
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a "6"
of hard labour, upon society in Irshad. davely,thes,