The Express.
London, England, 1849-04-20 00:00:00

Rua. t►e SIM her for Ciekirtstreeth, Nees seeeow het beyoroi
the usual prival.pte of &bee, w►'s ►e aye thee Ile ►•opai-
ties i►r ea Minutes is • propoeitias las& epos Wet pe-
ewees.

Mr. HOESMAN.—I said that it was not only based upon
false principle*, bet that it might*. almost seam to be " based
apes false pretences. (Laughter.)
Load J. RUSSELL (continued).—Well. the hon. gewle-
men adopts the salvo of t. might seem to be." All I can say is
that that " speemine " would be a very false wining ; would
not be ithe real fact with regard to It, because
eertainly say expectation is that if the bell for a rate in aid
should pus, the advance would be repaid by sums which
would be taken oat atlas rates which would be levied in Ire-
land. (Hear.) Now, with regard o the proposition before
the committee which has been made by t• • hoe. memher Fir
Reny. As I bass aliwaiy said, we were ready to unseen
the wishes of Irish members; but I think we were no: mis-
taken in oar original view, that with reopect to the interest.
of Ireland the rate is aid was prof abs to an income tex
My right hnn. friend has Arid that a rate in aid can be col
tutted with the machttery already in existence, wilt rens an
bums tax would require a new machinery; ar.d my right
hon. friend, as Chancel:o- of the Exchequer, has very tutu
ashy not gone beyond that 'Wein. at; but if any one wilt
reSect what as that new machinerr wito regard to taxation.
I am sore he will agree that it Is sleuthing net at all
agreeable in practice. (Cheers.) With respect, et the income
tax, it Is ;enmity believed that we couldn't have it
in Ireland without applying it to trades and pro-
fissions, and we could not apply thin machinery to trades and
professions, wieout asking every person engaged in them
' what his profits have been during the past year. Now that
is a question which is not answered without diff.oulty, It
being of costs • very injotions to any man in trade to state
that his prat' have been v ry low during the put
year; and, on the other hand, if be Waned i sate
that his profits have been high, his income tax would
of course increase in proper ion. The machiaery of
say uther tax, of any tea of 'wile, requires super-
, vision, end be therefore_ attesdol wi h inronv. nieces and

irksi.nteness. But, now, I do with the c mmitue to moiler
what are the eir.ariuts.ces is which we proves this rate in
aid. Ido beg the committee to ne.4lect that what I have so
ones wired to the house, but which is greasily almost
totally omitted hos the deism., that here is a very ronsp'er-
able population which, having for many years lived on the
potato as the it &caromed food, so hPn those potatoes
bled having; no eraployasent, roe Lying no wag, • and
eat getherieg that accustomed food, were left totally
deetituto, and without ezto naive aid must have perie..tii.
Now, I du think that, when • subject of this kisd la under
conaideraticm, let the hoes* decide is what form they will
give relief, and in the way that they be t thi as pay
that they will do it by means of an income tax if they do
net regal the rue in aid ; hut let me esk them to ome to a
decision, so that the Rovers meet may be enabled to relieve
the great distress. I do not wonder that os!jections have
been made to repeated advances. The failure of the potato
is 1816, and the grants made in 1846, and tn.:otos made in
1848, eon by no means diminish a 'fail, r misfor-
tune mooring in 1849. You may as well ray, as
the right bon gentleman nrepeated on • former
debeto, and which has not been feisiy reprepented by the
hon. member for Cnclunnouth—You may say, lit as supply
the instesoii our rarkseity, let us vote means for relieving
extreme distrees, but let us coneider what is to be the cue in
future years, and 1. t us have future p hey semen u a means
of alleviation. The right hon. gentleman did not • .7, Irt us
have pribey, and therefore let us base to means of alkyls-
!' os. On the contrary, the right hon. sealleman said he did
not object to taking one form or the ether. It was for the
future that he al peels( tided there should be some plc, 14d
duns. Nov, Ido not wish to ewer f other into the ques-
tions which •he hoe. rutleraan has raised. With respect ts a
gr:at p pion of the Et we shall hsveopportacitio s of d emotion
whin the D:11 of the Solicitor.° moat shall come tastier the
onnsPierrion of the house. There mart he burro. sera-
'ions on which the. • qiestiolus of p diey towards Ireland
mast bs crapidered. What Ido a.k the h sue is, that,
who may be toeir opinion of Wore police—whatever
may be their opinion as to the eines in which immediate
want may be relieved, that they will c pnsiier that the went
of 1849, dist the distral of 1849, and the starving of 1819,are
as great as they existed in 1846—perhaps almost so, great as
they existed in 1947; and I hope the committee will decide
in such • manner that effectual relief for the present will be
given. (Cheers )
Cel. DUNNE moved the adkraramest of the debit*.
(Oh, oh.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—This resolution will have to be re-
ported, and we aka have afterwards to go into • committee
on tie Bate in Aid Bill; sad I do not think I am erking too
much to ask the house to eratinu: the debate.

Mr. BERNAL—Den the hon. and a.ll►nt member w-
ent is bi. ovtios ?

Cul. DUNNE—There ere numbers of Irish msnsb"re who
ere as.: GIN to speak. If Irish minim do not wi.h to ad-
journ the deb.tn, I shall b.w to their decision; but iT there
are Irish members who win to speak, I shrill pers!st in
the motion I have Elide. The debate has been *Artie I on
extraneous p int,. There has been no arauserut in Grout
or the rate in aid or the application of the Income tax to
Ireland.
Lori CASTLEREAGH regretted that his hon. friend
the member for Keay had persisted in briegine torward
this motion. Ile had already
_stated, in writing to the oohs
lord, the reasoos which had i...ucTel many of the
Irish meresers to decline Ririe g an opinion upon the
question. As to the imposition sf the inecm T nut, he
conceived it absolutely impossible to answer to these
who had seat them bare as to whether they were
willing to agree with their ineabsra in coesectirg
such an income-as. If the hon. member for KT rry premed
bis amendment, he could not vote 'or that amendment, how-
ever willing he might hs at sow her time to vote for it sal I
support it. Its desired dislue.ly to be understood as per-
fectly will 03 To enter int. the q .edion of increased tszstlon 1
of Ireland, on the understanding that it !should be impedel
taxation for imperial peewees; and he really object...l to
local taxation. As far es he wen concerned, if be had env
weight with the hon. member for Kerry, he should not d
the work of hr n. gentlemen opposite by press mg a divisli n.
Mr. MONSELL, on the other hand, requested the hon.
comber for Kerry to persist. He wished, for one or two
minutes, to reply to the observations of the noble lord.
Col. DUNNE rose to order. It was not competent to the
hog. member to speak on the qu .burs, upon the question of
adjournment. Ii any one was to speak he was in possession
of the house.
The house divided.
For the adjournment
Aaainst it
Mr. SADLEIR was &anions to bane the opportunity of ex-
plaining why he could support neither the rate in aid nor
the propontin of the hon. member for Kerry. He believed'
other bids members also wished to speak, and be hoped
therefore that the noble lord wouli not persist in going to a
division on the main question that night. He would mere
that the chairman report progresa. (Cries of " adjourn,"!
and "go on.")
Lord J. RUSSELL wcnld not opines the adjournment.
as the foiling of a large portion of the house appeared to he
in fart or r f it, but reminds I Irish member that by y ovens.
log their derision they ineleased the difficulty of providing
the means for relieving the dztreas which existed.
The m trend f r reporting proves was then put and agreed
to, and the committee obtained leave to sit again to-morrow
(this day).
Lord J. RUSSELL intimated that the government would
take some rot. a in anneniun of supply, on account of the
navy estimates, as the first busintes tomorrow, alter which
they proposed to go on with the edjoamed debate on the
grant on the steamy of the rate in aid.
LANDLORD AND TENANT BILL.
Oa the moan of Mr. Pulsar this bill wee committed. bin
the moment the house went into committee,
Mr. F. MACKENZIE moved that the chairman report
provers.
Mr. PUSEY urged the delay which had already taken
plain as a reason for going on with Oa bill then, ba-, on to,.
Mackenzie insisting on his motion, consented to postpone it
Its a future do.
AFFIRMATION BILL.
Mr. P. WOOD moved that this bid do pan.
, Mr. F. MACKENZIE objected on the ground of the late-
MSS of the hour.
Colonel SIBTHORP *poke against the bill, under the
supposition that it wee the Lendlord end Tenant Bill, and
quoted the speech made by Prince Alown at Grimsby, on
Wednesday, to the effect that the mutual advantage of
landlord and tenant depended on mutual trust end eons
dimes rather than on the mere letter of agreement ; and ere
assigned considerable laughter, when Informed of his mistake
by Sir J. Y. Bun Las, by derlarina that in effect the two bills
were alike, both being tinselly objectionable.
ANT some conversation. in the course of which Captain
HARRIS stated that the rewon he spoke until six o'clock
ea Wednesday to prevent a sietietot on the bill then was,
became no minister had spoken upon it, and Sir ll Grey in•
limited that be append of the bill generally. The debate
was adjourned tell Wednesday next.
The house then adjourned at one o'clock.
to -

PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS.
AFFIRMATION DILL.
Amami reworks at the third reading of this tel.—
Aron 70
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Isids•.eir P. T. (Any B. W. POMO& Iturnely, T.
Batigvhy,
c. OWL Wayinrten, La.z:Vit.r Trefaiwny. J. 8.
sfoxik EurisoB. Tanen, H.
Berea, IL Hulk, A. Baer, E. Watkins, CoL L.
Benverle, ILL ,W. G. Hamar, OWL Wines:, B. 11.0.
Dr" Dm CiaL Iteurs, T. B. Rare& lord I. Williams, J.
Drodieries. Hunk J. Rollevsird, A. Wilhamrce,sial
Drees, W. Jer J. Salwey, Or& Billion, I,
Odd" 11. Kershaw J. fulaoleSdA, W. Wilson, Ni.
Diarymple, Capt. Klnir, P. J. L. Bally. P.
Ounsen. O. Lewis. 0. C. Shad, B. L. 71ILIALS.
DOM" Adis. !Minor, J. dean, J.
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Dieurt. P. Plumy, Has H. Pad, sir B. Willoughby,Mr H.
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Mr.
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