The Express.
London, England, 1847-01-20 00:00:00

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of remedying the diets of that ad, although in doing es he
exceeded the powers of the law; for which, liowever, there
wa• no doubt that part .ament would grant him an iudemoity.
If there was a point upon which the government had not
acted up to the heavy reapoissihillty with which they were
charged, he would say it was in not having established
depots for provisions, to be inued to the people of Ireland at
a rate that would guarantee the puh!ic from any luso, with-
out at the same time interfering with free and fair comp.-
tition. No one would dream of the government under-
taking to feed the whole of the people, or to sell food at leas
than its fair value; but by adopting depots they would
not have afforded a supply themselves, but gives
rise to another supply, by the opening of large
stores, already filled with provisions, and there detained
for speculative purposes. There wax no effort that the
government could make which he was sure would not be
cheerfully respondeil to by that house and the country*, •
alleviating this overwhelming calamity. He had no doubt .
that the transfer of a large portion of corn had been checked
by the want of sufficient tonnage to bring it to this country .
under the existing laws; and he did not think that any
general opposition would be made to a proposition for enlitg
ing the amount of our tonnage be the temporary relaxation at
the navigat ion laws. With regard to the temporary abolition of
the existing duty of 4s. on corn, which the nphle mover of the
addreeseeemed to think was contemplated by the government,
he would ask whether it was likely that by such a measure
the supril of corn would be in the slightest degree increased
or diminished, and whether pro (onto the indispotable effect
would not be to deprive the revenue of what it at present
gained from that duty, which, according to his noble friend,
would pass into the pockets of the foreign producer. He
did not know if the proposition respecting sugar was intended
to be permanent or temporary ; but be apprehended, that
permitting sugar to be used in distilleries and breweries
without previous notice, could not but have the efftea of
raising the price of that artiee, the necessity for cheapening
which was affirmed by parliament last session ; and would
also have the effect of stimulating the great body of the
agriculturists, by inflicting upon them further injury,
to demand a repeal of the malt-tax. Otheiqueotions were
alluded to in the speech so vaguely that it was impossible to
notice them. !wand wan said to be now free from political
excitement; but he questioned whether when the landed
gentry were in a state of pauperism and the peasantry
starving, was the best time for considering the social evils
of the country, and the remedies that it was best to apply to
them. If the remedies promised by the government would
have the effect anticipated in the royal speech, be
could only say, that no man in the country mould
more heartily rejoice at their introduction. (Hear, bear.)
But in whatever steps the government might take he
trusted they would not deal to extravagant promises, and
hold out hopes that the whole burden of Irish pant:orient
would be thrown on this country, but that they would pro-
ceed on the two maxims, first, that the pee* must not be
permitted to starve ; and secondly, that the pauperism of
Ireland must be provided for by the land. (Hear, heir.)
Re trusted also that they would take into their councils, in
dealing with this question, those who were, by experience,
best conversant with the actual state of the country—the
landlords of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Though he had not
on all occasions stood forward as the defender of that body,
he thought, that in the present crisis, the measure of abuse
had fallen upon them in the inverse proportion to their
merits.
pellet& =Orem immeritus.

There never was a time when the landlords of Ireland, as a
body, were more desirous to do their almost for the relief of
the starving people around them : there never was a time
when they were less inclim ii to deny their duties as proprie-
tors of the soil. It must not be forgotten that the Irish
landlord was placed in a very different position from that of
the landed proprietor in England. The greater the control
over the property of which be was the possessor, the weightier
was the responsibility attaching to the rights of the proprie-
tor. If in this country the land was divided into small hold-
ings, as it was in Ireland ; if the tenantry were, for the most
part, pauperised, and incapable of effecting any improvement
themselves, while they refused to concur in any arrange-
ments which should give to the landlord the slightest interest
or return for any capital he might expend to improve
their holdings, and benefit their condition ; if in this coun-
try custom and feeling united in encouraging the tenant to
impoverish and ruin the property of his landlord, so long as
he paid a rent, however inadequate that rent might he in
comparison with the real value; if, in this country, so long as
the tenant possessed an absolute right to remain on the pro-
perty, impeding every improvement, and refuting, as had
been the case in many instances in Ireland, to pay Is. more
rent for a commodious and comfortable house, than he did
for the hovel in which he was content to dwell, refusing all
improvement, and maintaining a hold by public opinion
which prevented the landlord removing him—if such was the
position of property here, would any person avert that it
. was the duty, or that it was possible to expect the landlord
to improve that property, or expend his capital upon it ?
Yet, with regard to Ireland, he could state from his own
knowledge, that such was the condition upon which many
. landlords, who had exerted themselves liberally and nobly
to better the condition of their tenants by expending their
capital upon improvements, held their property. (Hear,
hear.) It won impossible to contend that, under such cir-
cumstances, the property of Ireland had devolving upon it
the same duties, while it did not possess the same rights, as
the proprietors claimed and exercised in this more fortunate
country. He had to implore their lordships, in any mea-
sures they might be called upon to adopt, or in whatever
' macrifices they might have to call upon the landlords of
Ireland to make, not to venture upon any ra.h or
' hasty step—or, indeed, to take any step without a due
; consideration of all the circumstances in which they
were placed, or call upon them for any exertions which were
beyond the possibility of their means—or call for exertions
beyond the means of those parties who might be disposes?to
' embark capital in works that would afforl employment for
' labour, and at the same time tend to the permanent im-
provement of the country. (Hear.) He held that the
' great object in regard to Ireland was to facilitate and en-
courage the introduction and employment of capital into that
country. To the want of steady employment—the want of
any class depending upon wages as the primary source of
their daily subsistence, was to be attributed that clinging to
' land as the sole means of living which was the parent
of the misery and wretchedness which prevailed, and which
was the great bar to improvement. (Hear.) He believed there
were parties, as public companies, who, under proper en-
couragement and sufficient security, would be willing to de-
' vote their own capital to the execution of works, which, if
extended over the country, would afford employment to
large numbers of the people, and, at the same time, per-
manently improve the country; and if their lordships would
encourage the introduction of capital in this way, making
themselves responsible for its safe investment, so far only as
public security and public faith went, they would confer an
inestimable and extensive boon upon Ireland, and supply that
deficiency of capital which wan so much wanted, and induce
' its application to an extent which might excite in the minds
' of the people a desire for permanent employment for wages,
which desire he was convinced in some way or other they
must excite, foster and promote, if it led, their object to do
anything for the social good of the country. He would not
occupy their lordehips with any detail of the measures by
which, in his view, such objects should be carried out—he
merely threw out the suggestion for the consideration of the
government ; and, apologising for the time he had detained
their lordahips,he would repeat what he said at the beginning,
that he was quite satisfied that in legislating for the welfare
of Ireland the present government, provided they excluded
these religious and political controversies which had so long
distract ed that country, and made it the battle-field of par-
ties, and honestly laboured for its social improvement and
permanent welfare, he was satisfied that all distinetione of
party would merge, and all other considerations—all con
aiderations as to what party should the merit belong of pro-
posing and carrying such measures would be lost, and they
might rely on the cordial co-operation and **detainee of those
who now formed the opposition. (Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, that ea it would
be his duty, in a few days, to lay before their lord-
ships complete and perfect information on the two great
subjects of inquiry to which the noble lord bad alluded, M.,
the circumstances that had occurred—no' to endanger the
peace of this country and Europe—their, hear)—but in some
measure to affect our foreign relation. and those which re-
lated to the state of Ireland ; he was relations,
now induced by
some casual observations of the noble lord's to offer a few
words in explanation aa to the latter and most interesting of
' those topics. The noble lord, while promising to give his
most favourable attention to the measures government
might propose, had cast some censure upon ministers, in re-
' gard to those swum which they had adopted to meet the
evil in the Ant Instance. The noble lord should remember
that those measures were adopted under a different state
of eireumstanate to those with which, now, they lied to deal.
The noble lord, be understood, did not disapprove of the pro-
posed measure for facilitating the importation of foreign
corn. He would not now go into the nice arid diffi-
cult question as to where the profits of that importa-
tion would rest. It was passible that some part might
go to the producer; but the question was not who
would derive the greatest amount of the profit, but
how they could add to the amount of human food under
one of the most terrible visitations that had occurred ;—(hear,
bear)—and if every shilling_ of the milt went into the hands
of the foreign grower of all the grain imported during the
six months ensuing, he should be prepared to urge that
measure on the adoption of their lordships. (Cheers.) In
the present state of the trade there was in fact a premium
to ships to take corn from New Orleans and Odessa to other
couatries instead of bringing it to our ports, and that at a
time when five or six dhotis of people in Ireland, deprived
of their habitual food, the potato, were made wholly de-
pendent on corn for sustenance until the next harvest. With
regard to the use of sugar and molames in brewing and dis-
tilling, that he undenitood was not intended by his noble
friend to be permanent, and the noble lord would find
that though at was not put in the shape of a tem-
porary mason, it would not be to the interest of
the parties themselves that it should be permanent.
The proposed alteration in the navigation laws was also in-
tended to be temporary, to facilitate the introduction of corn
into this country. It was proposed, therefore, to suspend
those laws so far as they related to corn, as well as all
other laws restricting the free import of that article until
some day to be named, and which should depend on the
comingon of the next harvest. With regard to the Irish
measures generally, as on an early day they would be
brought before parliament, he would not further refer to
them at present. With respect to the non-introduction of food
into Ireland, he could assure the house that if the mercantile
interest had not been enured against anything like compe-
tition on the part of the government (except in any extreme
case) they would not have acted es they had done, in
throwing in supplies. Alluding to the Spanish mar-
time, the Marquis of Lansdowne said that there
had been no change of policy when the present
government came into office; and even at the present
moment he was not prepared to state that there was any im-
pediment to such a good understanding between England
and Frame es was neoweary to the interests of both
,•ountries. (Hear, bear.) With the assurance of the
noble lord (Staaley) that to the measures of goserianaut
there would be no vexatious opposition offered, he (the

(19?)

is the English mind a degree of incredulity with re-
spect to Irish distress, which would be removed by
the observations which had fallen from many noble lords
who had taken part in it. Without taking up mere time
be trusted that the manures to be proposed by government
would be of that large and comprehensive nature as to
be capable of meeting the gre►t difficulties which they had
to contend with.
The Marquis of WESTMEATII hoped that the govern-
ment would come forward with practical remedial measures,
and that the Irish people would not be put off with mere
vague experiments.
The Earl of RODEN rejoiced at the discussion which had
taken place, because it showed the sympathy entertained
by the hots.) for the suffering Irish nation.
The Earl of HARDWICKE urged that what was wanted
for Ireland was the means of conveyance of food, and he
wished to know from the noble lord at the head of the Ad-
miralty whether her Majesty's ships would be applied to
that purpose.
The Earl of AUCKLAND said, that from information re-
ceived by the government, they were of opinion that shipping
by the private trade would be sufficient for the transit of
food.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he should
make a statement on Monday of the intentions of the go-
vernment with regard to the measures they should intro-
duce, as he thought it would be satisfactory to their lord-
ships to be made acquainted with them, althongh they
would originate in the other house, and he should not re-
quire any decision upon them then, or at any other time.
The address wan then agreed to, and their lordships ad-
journed at half-past ten.

Marquis of Lansdowne) most heartily and hopefully eland.
He knew that when difficulties were to he arse tuntcred, and
masses of persons to be affected in their interests or preju-
dices, as would be the case in the measures which govern-
ment mania propose to their lordships, the greatest calmness,
the warmest co-operation on the part of their lordships
would be necessary, and let not their lordships be deterred
from such co-operation be any idea that government meant
to deal recklessly with that which must be the foundation of
all social improvement—he meant the rights of property.
(Cheers.) Far from thinking that by interference with the
rights of property any salutary improvement could be
.elected, he should say that it must tenfold increase the
misery and embarrassment of the people, if they took away
those inducements to improve which the rights of property
alone afforded. (Hear, hear.) Let the measures of the go-
vernment, when introduced, be tried by this test, and if any
one of them should be found to interfere with the rights of
property, he prayed their lordships to reject such measures.
But if they should be found to give to the Irish proprietor'
better means than they had at present for maintaining their
tenants, without disturbing the proper relation of landlord
and tenant, he trusted that the government measures would
meet with their lordships approbation and support. ( bear,
hear.) It might be as well to state at once that ho meant,
on Monday next, to move for some papers which would ens-
Me him to state more fully the grounds on which government
justifbal their past conduct, and rested those me mores on
which they founded their hopes of future amelioration in
Ireland. It was their intention to provide for the present
emergency by temporary measures, and to prop-ric others of
slower development fur the improvement of all classes in
that part of the United Kingdom.
Lord BROUGHAM said that during a parliamentary ex-
perience of thirty-seven years' duration, he could not recol-
lect an instance in which the legislature had come together
under circumstances of more grave embarrassment than at
present. It was only necessary to name Ireland, and no
more, to bid all party altercation ream and every voice of
party to be still. (Hear.) He did not blame government for
not having previously called parliament together, although
he was not quite certain that such a course might not have
been desirable. It had been objected that the Irish propri-
etors would have been forced to come over. God forbid he
should be instrumental in bringing the Irish proprietors over
to this country—(loud laughter) - but if it was important to
have them on their est stes in November, it was also import-
ant in January, so that the objection applied to one time as
to the other. He was rather confirmed in his opinion by
what tic had heard that evening. It appeared that the act
of last session was a failure, and that Lord Beaborough had
been obliged to deviate from it. It appeared, also, that Mr.
Labouchere's letter had proved a failure, aud that Mr. Trevel-
yan's had been anything but satisfactory, and lastly he found
that the million voted last year for drainage was totally ino-
perative. Another reason he had far thinking that an earlier
meeting of parliament would have been Netter, was that he
wished the ports had been opened. (Hear, hear.) As yet
the people bad enjoyed little benefit from the repeal of the
corn-laws. With the price at 70s. the duty under the old
law would have been only one shilling the quarter, while at
present it was four shillings, and would continue so until
the import price tumbled to 50s. (Hear, hear.) He was
therefore anxious for an early suspension of the
present law, if not its entire abrogation. (Hear, hear.)
Lastly, he came to the great question of the day,
our foreign affairs, which interested that house much,
the other house a little, and the country not at all. He be-
lieved that although Englishmen were loyally anxious about
the alliances of their own sovereigns, they cared as little for
the intermarriages of foreign royal houses, as they would for
any marriage contracted in Mons. Le Verrier's new planet,
if there, men were married and women given in marriage.
(Laughter.) He should mention one instance of their in-
difference, and that, too, in a case of great importance.
When Louis XIV. placed his grandson Philip V. on the
throne of Spain, the English monarch, William 111., at once
took objection to the arrangement. and involved this
country in a dispute, which was inherited by his suc-
cessor, and which led to the most illustrious campaigns
ever fought by this country until those of the illustrious
duke near him (Lord Brougham), which surpassed them.
(Cheers.) But all the victories of Marloorough, all the
counsels of Godolphin, and the wisdom of Somers, could not
make the people of this country bestow a thought on the
question of the Spanish succession. Although the interests
of this country were therein deeply, although remotely in-
volved, the war became unpopular, and to our eternal shame
the great general was driven from the country which his
victories had adorned. This showed what a hopeless task it
would be for a minister of the present day to think of fixing
the public mind on the correspondence respecting what was
called the Montpensier marriage question. (A laugh.) He
trusted that by all honourable means the good understanding
between this country and France would be preserved, as
also the cordial intelligence which had been happily esta-
blished between the illustrious monarch of that country and
our own beloved sovereign. It was not that he attached
any great national consequence to what was called the
entente cordiale between any twasovereigns of constitutional
states. The sabstantial interests of such states depended on
other matters than what occurred or did not occur at royal
conferences or royal visits' ; but still breaches of royal friend-
ships' were important, and much to he regretted. They
formed as it were the prvious oil which relieved the friction
of the machine, when the two nations having interests
coming into contact all over the globe, were likely at any or
every point to be exposed to friction and collision. He hoped,
therefore, that any interruption of the most friendly relations
would be short, as he kne w was the ardently cherished wish on
the other side of tae water. He could state, from his own pi r-
ental experience, that an ardent wish existed there that the
good understanding should be restored in form—he believed
it had never been broken in substance—and he hoped and
trusted that nothing would be done or said in the course of
the debate in either house of parliament to prevent that
happy consummation. (Hear, hear.) With reference to the
question of Cracow, he wished to set his noble friend near
him right. His noble friend, the president of the council, had
not said that there was anything in the correspondence of
the French government which formed an extenuation for what
afterwards occurred elsewhere, what he said was that the
annexation of Cracow would never have been attempted
but for the knowlege of what was going on between
England and France. He could not go the length of his noble
friend the mover of the addraa, in calling that act a crime.
He objected altogether to the language of vituperation when
parties were not prepared toga farther. Governments should
protest explicitly, but not indecently, and he trusted, there-
fore. that in our protests on the subject of Cracow there was
not one word which Russia, Austria, or Prussia could
fairly take offence at. He held a strong opinion that the
conduct of them powers was not justified by the defence
which they had set up. (Hear, hear.) Even if they proved
misconduct on the part of Cracow they had no right to take
the law in their own hands. He rejoiced, however, that so
little had been said on the subject in the speech. Our
ancient friendship and alliance with Austria was of the
greatest importance to this country, and should not be lightly
disturbed. (Hear, hear.) Prussia was not so important,
nor bad been valuable at all until the time of Frederic If.,
called in this country the Protestant hero—Protestant in the
same sense as l'aine, who protested against every religion.
He wholly objected to the idea that an important measure
should be brought up to their lordahips home, with refer-
ence to Ireland, in the immediate shape of a money bill,
would have no c of amending, but

HOUSE OF COMMONS—TUESDAY, JAN. 19.
NEW WRITS.—The SPEAKER apprised the house
that he had issued writs fur the election of a member
for North Lincolnshire, in the room of Lord Worsley (called
to the Douse of Peers) ; for Renfrewshire, in the room of
Mr. P. M. Stewart (deceased) ; and for East Worcestershire,
in the room of Mr. Banieby (deceased).
NEW IEIIIIEIt.S.—Mr. Strum for Derby; Colonel
Muir, for Renfrewshire ; Sir Montague Cholmeley, for
North Lincolnshire; end Capt. Rushout, for East Worcester-
shire, were introduced, and respectively took the oaths.
NOTICES OF MOTION.—CORN LA WS.—Mr. TUF-
NELL said he had to give notice, on the part of his nublo
friend the First Lord of the Treasury, that on Thurs-
day next he would move resolutions, in committee of the
1 whole boons, on the corn laws.
NAVIGATION LAWS.—Mr. TUFNELL gave notice
that, on the same day, the noble lord would move, in com-
mittee of the whole house, resolutions ou the navigation

laws.
LAW OF SETTLEMENT—Mr. TUFNELL gave no-
tice that on Friday next the noble lord would move for the
appointment of a committee to inquire into the operation of
the law of settlement.
STATE OF IRELAND —Mr. TUFNELL gave notice
that, on Monday next, the noble lord would bring the state
of Ireland under the consideration of the house; but, on
Friday next, his noble friend would be able to state
more particularly in what way he intended to call the atten-
tion of the house to the subject.
cusToms AND EXCISE DUTIES.—Mr. PARKER
said he had to give notice, on the part of his right hon.
friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that, on Friday, he
would move that the house do resolve into a committee of
the whole house on the customs and excise duties acts.
SESSIONAL ORDERS.—Mr. PARKER gave notice
that, to-morrow, he should move the sessional orders, and
should also proceed to nominate the select committee on
standing orders.
CHELSEA PENSIONERS AND ARMY ENLIST
MENT.—Mr. FsiX MAULE gave notice that, on Tuesday
he should move for leave to bring in a bill to abolish the
I duty on the pensions of Chelsea pensioners. Alas, that, on
an early day, he should submit a bill having for its object to
limit enlistment in the army.
SHORT TIME IN FACTORIES.—Mr. J. FIELDEN
gave notice of his intention to bring in a bill for reducing
the time of labour in factories to ten hours a day.
POOR-LAW COMMISSIONERS.—Mr. HUME gave
notice that, on Friday next, he should put a question to the
Find Lord of the Treasury as to what the intentions of the
government were respecting the poor-law commissioners, in
consequence of the proceedings which took place last session,
and the resolutions which he had proposed to move, which
were put off to give the government time to consider the

mater.
TREATY OF VIENNA.—Mr. HUME said that, on
Thursday week, be should call the attention of the house to
the violation of the treaty of Vienna, by the seizure of Cra-
cow, with the view of proposing to urge the suspension of
the payment of 100,000 t, which this country had been pay-
in to the Emperor of Russia, ever since the treaty of
Vienna was entered into, on condition of his fulfilling its
obligations. (Hear, hear.)
THE CHANNEL ISLANDS.—Dr. BOWRING gave
notice that, to-morrow, he should inquire whether the com-
missioners respecting the Channel Islands had made their
report ; and, if so, when it would be laid on the table of the

house.
IRISH POOR-LAWS.—Mr. P. SCROPE said that on
Thursday fortnight (Feb. 4) he should move the following
resolution That the lives of the people of Ireland ought
to be as valuable, in point of law, so those of the people of
England ; consequently, it is expedient to extend to Ireland
the main principle of the English Poor-law, the right of the
poor to relief, and the right of the destitute to be saved from
perishing."
CATHOLIC DISABILITIES. Mr. WATSON gave
notice that he should more t 3 introduce a bill for the removal
of the disabilities of Roman Catholics.
UNIVERSITY TESTS.—Mr. CHRISTIE gave notice
of his intention to submit a motion on the exclusion of Dis-
senters from the national universities.
NEW WRIT.—A new writ was ordered, as we under-
stood. for West Sussex.
PRISONERS IN THE SIKH WAR.—Mr. WAR-
BURTON asked if guy inquiry had been made by govern-
ment as to the rumour that had been spread respecting the
murder of plisor!!rs taken in the Sutle) campaign.

Mr. F.:M.AtkUL.B replied that it appeareit that m

prisoner had been put .to death for springing a mine
when they were entering a certain village but there
was no foundation whatever for the report that the prisoners
taken on that occasion had been wantonly murdered in cold
blood. It was a foul calumny and aspersion on the British
army. (Hear, hear.) He did not believe that any right-
minded man would ever have placed any confidence in it,
and he was exceedingly obliged to his hon. friend for giving
him the opportunity of stating before the country at large
that it had ne foundation whatever.

_ .
which they see.: opportunity a,
must wholly reject or wholly adopt. He would recommen.
that the government plan should be first laid before both
houses in the shape of resolutions, so that their lordships
might assist in maturing a really eligible measure, which
could then assume the form of a bill. The other house, he
thought, would gladly avail itself of their lordships' advice
in the perfecting a measure, unless, indeed, that house as-
sumed to be not merely
.• collection of legislative wisdom,
but the monopoly of legislative wisdom. It would be most
unfair, indeed, to their lordship not to give them this op-
portunity, for under the existing fearful circumstances, if the
measure came before them as a money bill, they could not,
they dared not reject it, but must take it as it stood. They
could not do otherwise in the awful state of Ireland, the
horrors daily related of which surpassed anything in the page
of Thucydides, on the canvas of Pousein, in the dismal
chant of Dante. He would roost earnestly urge upon
the government to draw a distinct line between temporary
measures to meet what he would trustingly call a temporary
end, ani permanent laws introducing organic, or radical, or
enduring changes in the government of Ireland. There was
much complaint made of Irish absenteeism. He must observe
on this point, that he himself knew of no lands better cul-
tivated in Ireland than those belonging to absentees, which
in almost even instance, indeed, were administered by able
agents, who fulfilled in great measure the duties of the
absent owner. Most of the great landowners of Ireland bad
also large peraordons in England, so that they must be ab-
sentees from one or the other country. As to the proposition of
supplying the wants of the Irish people in the shape of
gifts out of the imperial treasury, he held that no course of
proceeding could ba more fatal to Ireland herself, mere
deeply injurious to the empire at large. (Hear.) Advance
money by all means to Ireland out of the imperial treasury,
but lot it be strictly in the way of loan, of which both prin-
cipal and interest are to be punctually repaid by the localities
to whose use the advance shall be applied. He could not
imagine more frightful extravagance, more monstrous job-
bing, more miserable and enduring improvidence, than would
he at once originated by the advertisement that two or three
millions were to be given away, to the Irish people. And
once begin, you must go on giving until you have abso-
lutely no more to give, doing no good all the while;
but infinite harm, and satisfy no one, for the demands would
be found perfectly exhaueler. As to subscriptions for the
distressed Irish, he aided them with his utmost power,
but he must confess he doubted whether mush
actual benefit would arise from them. Their chief value
was, the indicating of a kindly testing towards Ireland.
With reference to envernment depots of grain, there were Jl
very few instances indeed in which recourse to them was at
all safe, and then only on a limited scale. The inevitable I
effect, and obviously a most mischievous one, of government
going into the market was at once to raise the
mice of grain to the whole country. (Hear, hear.)
It enuld not be forgotten, that in France there had been a''
deficiency in the crop, and the bank of that country had
been obliged to obtain a loan from the Bank of England of
three quarters of a million sterling. But all this arose from
the unwholesome state of commerce, and the compul.ion
which existed to purchase grain with bullion instead of he
manufactured goods. With respect to the law reforms, ad-
verted to by the noble marquis apposite ( Lansdowne), he
must say that nothing could be more excellent than that faci-
lities should be given to the easy, secure, sod cheap conveyance
of lanes, hut be MAP not at all prepared to do away with all
ent .1.. With these remarks he was prepared to receive and
disease all the different measures to which attention had
been called by his noble friend.
Earl FITZWILLI AM said, he could not help feeling ex-
treme satisfaction with what had passed in that house during
the present evening, and he trusted that the tone of the
other house of parliament had corresponded with that which
their ler Wen. had roe-r-t^'-at*enett`'ne• shs enee-rsoinn
—(Hear, hear)—for he had observed that there existed

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JANUARY 20, 1847.

better be reserved, but he could nut refrain from saying,
that if it could be shewn that without a loss to the re-
venue, a large quantity of corn could be liberated f,r the
food of the people, while one of their few luxuries might be
reduced in coast, it must be almost needless to add, that such
a measure, in bare justice to their coloni. e, isould not be
withheld from them after they had withdrawn a prohi-
bition which was so beneficial to them.
Mr. W. SMITH O'BRIEN mid that though it was cus-
tomary to receive with unanimity an address to her Majesty
in such cases, he felt that he should be omitting a duty, if he
remained silent on the present occasion and did not maim an
appeal to the house with respect to the state of the
people of Ireland, whose deplorable condition could not
be exaggerated, or could not be fully described. He
trusted that it was unnecessary for him to recapitulate the
sad occurrences that had taken place within the last three
months in Ireland. If gentlemen were not familiarised with
these appalling circumstances, and if these horrors had not
produced a natural effect on their minds nothing he coul.l
add could move them. He was bound to add that from all
be had learned from most recent amounts there was reason
to apprehend, not only that these horrors still continued in
all their frightful magnitude, but daily increased and would
increase unless palliative measures be adopted for the pm,
poee of kasenieg them. He did not accuse the government of
a wilful intention to bring about a state of things so die-
estrous, but he was compelled to say that not only was
it his conviction, but the conviction of millions in Ireland,
that the Government not only did not adopt measums
suitable in such a state of things, but allowed this appalling
state of things to arise. He would recal to the recollection
' of the house the pledge given by the noble lord at the head
of the government, at the close of the last session, that no
interference on the part of the government with food sh mid
he allowed. To that fatal pledge he attributed many of the
disasters which had befallen that unhappy country. The
present government should have followed the example of
their predecessors, and made a pledge that, no tar as the
exertions of the government were concerned, they would do
the utmost to prevent any human being dying of starvation.
He wished to ask, why should not the duty upon the imports-
lion of corn have been abrogated months ago, when the I
horrible state of the Irish people became known? Then
with respect to the employment of the people—and he re-
gretted that he was addressing an audience fivekixths of
whom knew nothing about the subject—the resident
gentry and the farmers, who bad received diminished
rents and profits, from the failure of the potato crops,
and who were consequently unable to give all the
employment that was required, stepped nobly forward
and did their best to alleviate the distress, yet the
government refused to tax the ebsentee landlords.
Such being the state of things, it was natural, surely, that
government should provide some remedy of a temporary
character. They passed at the end of last session a bill which
was called the Labour Rate Act, under which power was
given to the executive to undertake works recommended by
the Quarter Sessions, In order to give employment to the
people, and under this act they were employed in destroying
the roads, and in consigning the land to perpetual barrenness
—nothing was done fur its proper cultivation. Ile did not
blame the government for passing this act, because they, no
doubt, did so precipitately, and without knowing the full ex-
tent of the sufferings of the people: but he could find no
apology for the neglect of the government in not calling par-
liament together teethe purposes to which he had referred. The
right hon. gentleman, instead of doing that, took upon him-
self the functions of the legislature, without consulting the
Irish members, the only legitimate organs through
whom information should be obtained; declared what
should be the law in Ireland; and established re-
gulations affecting every property in the country and
its taxation in a most material manner, and that through a
letter couched in language that was exceedingly difficult to
understand. It appeared to him that the minister who set
such a precedent was deserving of impeachment. He did not
wish to offer any remondranee to the present government, for
he looked upon their attainment to office with the greatest sa-
tisfaction, and had certainly greater sympathy with them
than with any other met in the house. But he had at pre-
sent no faith in the plans which they had devised ; and he
thought that they would not, by any means, be likely to
satisfy his countrymen.
Mr. P. SCROPE hoped he might be permitted to call
the attention of the government to one point which had
been omitted by the hon. member for Limerick (Mr. S.
O'Brien), without its being supposed that he intended to
cant any blame upon them. The impotent poor, the aged,
the infirm, the sick, the widows, orphans, and children—
the young women, in fact all women who had not a
husband to provide for them—all these persons were not
in any way provided for. And he wished to know how they
were to be maintained.
Mr. LABOUCHERE admitted that the picture which
had been drawn of the present miserable condition of Ireland
was not overcoloured, and vindicated, at great length, the
present government from the heavy responsibilities which
were sought to be east upon them, especially defending them
against a charge of neglect in not having adopted the plan
pursued by Sr Robert Peel's administration last year for sup.
plying the Irish people with food. The right hon. baronet took
a praiseworthy step in the introduction of Indian meal,
which before had been unknown in Ireland. It had pro-
duced an excellent effect. It had accustomed the Irish to
that article of food, and opened • trade in which private
traders had never before been engaged. The right hon.
baronet had conducted that operation with the greatest
secresy, without which it would not have been successful.
(Hear, hear.) But was that an experiment that could be
repeated ? Did they think that traders would be twice
caught in that way ? (Hear, hear.) The right hon. baronet
himself had stated that he could never do it again. (Hear.)
The hon. gentleman proceeded to criticise the means in
which the government had given employment to the people.
When the present government came into office, they found
that a system had been adopted which apparently received
the sanction of the house and the people of Ireland, namely,
that of meeting the calamity by affording wages to the
masses of unemployed people on public works. That system
had been attended with some abuses, but, as a choice, the
present government bad thought it best to pursue it, ins-
posing certain checks, and they had, therefore, obtained a
bill at the close of the last session, for the purpose of pro-
viding fur the quantity of labour which might be thrown
on the market. They, however, never recommended
such a measure as one that would provide for
the whole labouring population, end they hoped that
it would have the effect of stimulating the landed pro-
prietors to employ the population on usetui and productive
works : in that anticipation, however, they had to a grew
degree been disappointed. lie would not then inquire into
the causes of 'hat disappointment, but he believed the magni-
tude of the calamity had had some effect in producing it.
(Hear.) As to the question whether this was &calamity, the
whole pressure of which should be borne by Ireland, or
whether it should be considered as one in which the whole
British empire should participate, he felt no difficulty an
giving an answer to it. He would not anticipate the discus-
sion which must arise when the whole series of the govern-
ment measures would be brought forward in a few days, but
he had no hesitation in saying, looking to the extent of the
calamity, and the manner in which, though it affected
England and parts of Scotland, it pecu.iurly affected Ire.
land, considering that the evil was out of all proportion with
the resources which it was in the means of the people to
employ ; that the house would consider it as an imperial
question, would treat it in that sense, and would be prepared
by all just and legitimate means to grapple with it. He
hoped that eh would do their duty. (Hear, hear.) Ireland
had a perfect right that England and Seethed should assist
her under her misfortune, taut on the other hand, the em-
pire had a right to call on the gentry and people of
Ireland to do theirs (cheers) to show a disposition
to leave nothing undone to grapple with the calamity. (Rear.)
There was one very important part of the condition
of Ireland to which he wished to refer before he sat down—
he meant the increase of °Menem against property which had
been adverted to in her Majesty's speech. It was not sur-
prising that, with a famine desolating the land, the bonds of
society should be relaxed, and that outrage should take
place; but at the same time it was right that the house
should form no misconception of the nature of them.
There was a great increase of crime, but on analysine
it the increase was found to consist of attacks
on property. The old egrarian outrages, which formed as
large an item in the catalogue of Irish crime, had diminished
And it was remarkable that the spirit of combination, which
used to form so remarkable a feature in Ireland and led to
so many agragrinn outrages, had altogether disappeared.
There was no sympathy with the offender, there was me
difficulty in obtaining a conviction and in enforcing the law.
(Hear). He believed that the law was now executed with
as much facility in Ireland as in any other psrt of her Ma-
jety's dominions. It would be well for hon. gentlemen
to bear these facts in mind when they come to consider the !
measures which would be proposed tar Ireland. The hon.
member fur Limerick had raised them why they did not
call Parliament together in November, he (Mr.
ebere) would only my that he had been in constant
mesons' communication with Irish representatives and
lAA gentlemen, and when it was proposed to call
parliament together, they one and all mill, " } or God's sake
do not call parliament together." (Laughter.) Whatever
Is to be done, do it on your own responsibility ; for if parlia-
ment be called together, it will be supposed that some new
measure is about to be proposed ; and all our exertions will
be paralysed. He felt convinced that Ireland had a
Maim to demand, not as a boon, but as a right, the assistance
of the whole British empire. 1 Hear, hear.) That assist-
ance would be given to her, he was sure, in no unfriendly
spirit: and in no unfriendly spirit he would say to the repre-
seutativesof Ireland, that he hoped they would justify the
exertions of parliament and of the government by
showing their own determination to leave nothing
untried or unmtempted to grapple themselves with the
*eternity which has fallen on their country. (Hear, hear.)
)(nth might be done by the British empire to assist Ireltuid
—he would peace no limitation to the assistance which it
would give Ireland in so great a calamity, except only that
it thou d he given to an extent and degree that would be
useful to Irelend herself. (Hear, hear.) tie was sure it
would he better for Ireland if she were to rely on her awn
menure..., end if her own children were to exert themselves
mentully for themselveeknd tha. it would b. doing her a great
injury if she were taught to rely upon eovernment. (Hear,
hear ) He hoped the question would be discussed in a
becomitig manner, and that Irish members would not think
that they were treated in any unkind manner by English
members; but on the other hand, he treated they would do
everything in the-ir power to remedy the calamity which had
befallen their country. lie was net without hope that out
of evil good might carne, and that (while he sympathised
with the suffering) it might afford an opportunity of pre-
venting the recurrence tal similar mi‘fortenes. (Hear.)
Lord G. BENTINCK said he could assure the right hon.
gent Leeman that it was not the intention of the party to which
he belonged, nor wee it their desire, to make Ireland the
battle-ground of party. (Hear, hear.) He VAR deeply sen-
sible teat her Majesty's government had been brought to
the government of Ireland under circumstances of peculiar
thew eity. they twit that they had ..4111, enure