The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-05 00:00:00

PUBLIC SALES.

Max 4.—By Mr. T. Tuts, at the Mart.—Bleven free-
hold houses, Nos. 29 to 41, Regent-square, St. Pancras,
Middlesex, land tax redeemed, let at rents amounting to
7501. per annum—sold in lots for 11,4501.
Leasehold house, No. 12, Regent-square, let at 54/. per
annum, held for 52 years at a peppercern rent-6351.
Leasehold house, No. 43, Regent-square, let at 501. per
annum, held as preceding-655/.
Forty-two lots of freehold building land, situated in the
Acton-road, near Turnham-green, soli at prices realising
about 6001. per acre.
By Mr. C. II: mama., at the Mart.—A freehold farm
called lioneypoles, near Horsham, Sussex, containing about
50 acres of land with windmill, cottages, &c., let at .151. per
annum-7001.
Leasehold business premises, No. 184, Regent-street,
held far 61 years, at 26-3/. per annum-4501.

ST. II.G71:8 SeitooL—Yesterday was Apposition
Day at this school, and a company both numerous and select
ass: tabled to test the proficiency of the most advanced
scholars. The Archbishop of Canterbury, the Bishops of
London and Oxford, and many of their episcopal brethren,
were present. Speeches and recitations were delivered as
usual on these occasion•, and the boys were complimented
upon a successful display of ability. At the request of the
Archbishop of Canterbury an extra holiday was given to
the scholar*.
NEW MONEY ORDER Tows.—Portheawl, in
Glamorgan ; St. Marry, in Cornw .11; Wcstburyon•Trym,
in Gloucester ; Drumkeerin, and Drumshambo, in Leitrim ;
and Bunessau, Basdale, Glencoe, and Morvera, in Argyle,
have been made post-office money order towns.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. I.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.—WEDNESDAY, MAT 4.
The Synannz took the chair M 12 o'clock.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PE lIT lONS PRESENTED.
OPENING or THE C PALACE ON Sunnkys.—lty
Mr. DUNLOP, from inhabitants of St. PArtholomsn's &s-
-trict, Liverpool, against.
CAE or EDWA"
-6
from Nu wcaati. 0 Ht..to.or.—By 3lr. 13LACK.ETT,
ol...Tyae, for release siL
AvitENT or Wmara HADF/ELD,
from the Cutlet's Company of Stl'ireld, under the com-
pany's seal, against; Major W. WYNN, from weavers and
'Pitmen of Newton, Monti!' mcreshire, in favour of.
PULLIC Royals (SCOT-„4.u) lifittt.—Lty Mr. DUNLOP,
from the ministers sod utti,m-bearers of Stockwell Free
Church, Glasgow, in favour of.
INTOXICATING 1.11.11:01.¢.—By Mr. 0. RICARDO, from
inhabitants of the city o a Worcester, for restricting the laws
of the sale of.
INDIAN TslittlTAtlEA.—By Mr. BLACKETT, from
Newcastle end .te.hesd Commercial Association, praying
for a better adm.stistration of.
CONIBINATION or WOUILEIN BIrLL. —By Lord
f rost D.
STUART, from Sr. Marylebone; M. WILLIAMS,
the operative stonemasons of Lambeth; in favour oL
NOTICE OF MOTION.

Mr. Or.teri For Tuesday. the 10th May: Select
tom:mitts. to inquire into the state sail condition of the
bridles over the Thames in the metropolis; to report
whether they are adecuate to the present end vastly in-
creasing traffic; whether it be desirable to construct one or
more bridges over the river, if so at what point or points;
whether it would be desirable to throw open to the public
the prevent toll paying bridges, and, if so, upon what terms
such bridges could he thrown open; and to report upon Any
measures.
BOROUGH OF TYNEMOUTH.

Sir D. HILL g;;;;Mit;is for this day to move that the
writ fur the borough of T)nemouth be not issued until the
mouth of fuse eon. Also to move for a commission to in-
quire into the alleged corrupt practices in that borough.
PROBATE OF WILLS BILL.
Mr. II ADF I ELD, in moving the second reading of this
bill, proposed that the bill should be read a second time
without filiClPlioo, and the committee postponed until after
be holidays.
'the SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that when, • month
ago, he made a statement on this subject he hoped that he
should shortly be able to introduce • bill. Considerable
*regress had since been made in the preparation of that
bill, and it was now nearly ready to be brought in, but, in
ensequenee of communications he had received, he had
referred at to the Chancery Commissioners for their opinion
as to the testamentary iurisdictioo. Some little time must
be allowed to enable the commissioners to make their
report, as ho was anxious not to bring in a measure without
the high sanction of their recommendation. He might here
remind the house that the impirtant measure of last session,
for the retires of the Court of Chancery, and of which
every day showed the advantages, embodied the recom-
mendations of that learned body. (Hear, hear.) At the same
time, he could assure the house that he was most anxious
to fulfil the promises be had made, and he elm believed he
bad authority to state, that if the report of the commis-
sioners were delaytd longer than was expected, the bill
which bad been prepared would be immediately laid on the
table. With regard to the bill of his hon. friend, he was
willing that it should be read a second time with the un-
derstanding that when the larger measure was brought in
the latter should have precedence of consideration. He
(the Solicitor-General) was excessively desirous that eccle-
siastical jurisdiction, in which there was noddle' of a
spiritual nature, but which was purely temporal, almald be
absorbed into a temporal coati. and there was as mart se
proper fur the purpose as the Court of Chiming. Velem I
that were done, any partial monsere far the NOM et the
ecelesiutical marts which NSW! them mita& mold be
a step in the wrong direction With time eliservetlens be
was willing that the bill sheali be reed a sassed thee.
Dr. PHILLIMORB mold net penult the MU Se be reed
a second time, even pro forme, without ealerig lie protest
against its previsions. As it deed et pessents be kneel le
would tend to increase the amber of probates rather that
diminish this. Ile hoped, however, that this much vexed
question would be settled during the present parliament.
Me. B. DENISON, seeing that government yeasiewl a
eithgeehubsive measure, thought that the beet Neese wield
le te wilbinw the bill.
The LOAD ADVOCATE brought qq MOM damn ne,
Nam be the werkieg of the act in Sedlvei
Mr. EITZOEUALD deemed to the bill, as bring a meet
of tiekeriag legislates en a kegs subject. lie tread that
the governors( masseee wadi legislate for Irelands _sad Is
that lope bad hinmelf selbelned from Wining is a M.
Mr. 11111 LET thought that after the illetinet =seance-
meat of the Eelisitor-Oeserel the been ought all le read
this bill amend time. He believed there was batons feel-
lag in the Mee as to dealing with the enemies of testa.
mastery juridic-tips, sad anise theeeekeemitheme► alms
he bad ea meareette that the MR would be wididemn4 be
should more as lee eassadaseet that it be read a semi dese
that day de maths.
lard J. RUSSELL meld me a* reason fee rekellajetel
bill at this stye. It apposed le him that the Mum 1
mime to the essaideratma of this 'guest gustiest if testa-
=eatery jurisdiction with all illignigniale before it. Now,
la the Are pen, the hems bail net asr t the plan of the
Solicitor-Oesswel ; LA la the eseseiAdm. dot lion
might be mallard by the plea if the ..iney Ono*.
stoners, who bed bees appointed mgesilly te eserike 111.
Simla be the Nee. he did aft Mak lt- right to
this bill, dialing wit% soy of the
because every sad would be vale.
able in enabling the beam le NEM a eight dedium Ile
but should certainly oldest le gels' ink esemai but Ali
not see "ay rams Ise ateselleg the asseed . He
would menthes vide with Ida Yea. sad Ismael with
the us I usessilni lIM the esmaillee should be
until the gememarat memos had been laid on dm Mlle.
Mr. COLLIER thought the meemmt a step in the riga
direction, and that it wadi tbenfore be izespediont is
stop its program. Although he telt that the jeakiktien
testamentary should be dealt with in ithemprebeastee mew
nor, he was not limimmilk to its number to the Oeigit of
Chancery. He email glee it to the Omsk On" la di
non-contested mattes* ander a metal* anilleinil lIMISINIPS
that, it might bee
_dealt widths the meats et mop
mon law. He Mamma Itias thumbs, a Mlles lin sob,
jest, with • view Mile imedihretke ekes with am aft
Lon. and learned lininaheillalid. BO thestabe Ilea Oa
question must ultimata* be MIA lig &mind emelllee.
but he trusted it would be dealt with Alike the pima
session. (Hear, hear.)
The bill was read a second time, and ordered to be ani-
mated pro forma on Wednesday next.
PAYMENT OP WAGES BILL.
... _ _ .

Oa the order of the day for the second reading of this
bin,
Petitions were presented against by Mr. BASS, from
Derby Mr. HADFIELD, from Sheffield ; and by Mr.
BROCKLEHURST, from Macelealield. By Sir. I.
WALMSLEY, from Leicester, signed by 900 ratepayers
and 29 masters, in favour of.
Sir 11. lIALFORD, in moving the second reading of the
bill, proceeded to explain its objects. For • number of
years gement of wages had been prohibited by law other-
wise tisis in the carnet coin of the realm. The ancient'
!ewe ha this subject WWII esasolidated by the act of Wil- '
Ism the Fourth, and be hawed their policy had n
bees chetiesed, although Bees tine to time there had
bees assplalate of Impeders shimmies. A government
oreasesies le isiske red woes. bed bees Instituted by Sir
G. Grey, eed essibsedlby lie aessesser is tie Horae-oha.
Mr. Tremoshows, the essmielieher, bore testimony to the
great and manifest edviatips of the law, and added many
suggestions for its isomeremeat. It was pert of his (Sir
IL Helloed's) object to urge these suggestions on the house,
as he proposed to bring certain practices within the scope
of the act, which were distinctly against its spirit, but which,
by an unfortunate construction of the letter of the law, had
been hitherto exempted from its operation. He was princi-
pally concerned fur the framework knitters of the midland
counties, a numerous cad industrious clam of workmen. So
great had been their distrees in former years, that in 1844 her
Majesty had issued • commission of inquiry to ascertain the
cause. That distress, he was happy to say, had been some-
what mitigated since, and he believed that, with fair play,
these poor people might now earn a comfortable subsist-
ence. The commissioners had attributed their distress
principally to the system of frame rents, and the custom of
making deductions from the wages of the werkpcople, the
latter making it the interest of the employer to spread his
work over as many workmen a. possible. The evident*
taken bet ire the commissioner was conclusive on one point,
namely, that the deductions were determined by no fixed
rat., but were solely at the will of the employer. So inju-
rious did the commissioner think this practice, that • ease
wider the Track Act was taken before Lord Denman, but
was unfortunately decided against the men. The frame-
work knitters worked in frames which they rented from
their employers, and the stated rent of these frames was
computed at 40 per cent. of their value, but there was abun-
dant proof that in many instances the rent reached 100 per
rent. Oae witness proved that a fame ranted by an under-
taker or middleman at N. a week was afterwards sublet
by him to a workman at 21. 01., the valeta of
the femme being altogether not more than 5/.
(Hear, hear.) The same witness knew of a number of
frames, worth from 20.. to 21. each, let at Is. a week;
sad fee one. which had coat, 305., be had for five weeks been
paying Is. Bd. Another man stated that he bad rented the
same frame for ten years without ever having it repaired.
This was the evidence of the workmen; and although he
bed no doubt of its truth, be would fortify it from other
quarters. Mr. Pdkins stated that the undertakers who rented
the houses out to tha workmen made, on an outlay of 5001.
capital, an income of 5001. a year. It should be remembered,
also, that these rents were levied whether the frames wen
at work or not, the idleness being itself caused by tie un-
dertaker, in not giving oat • sufficient quantity of week.
Idle or working, well or sick, this inflexible rent was always
levied from the poor workman. (Hear, hear.) The son-
111.41011efi a-certaiaed some facts which forcibly showed the
client of the evii. One poor man earned 91. lid. in • week
will his frame, and his employer charged 9s. Id.
for rent., so that his net earnimas fur the week
am ref rem one halfpenny. Ano:hor earned si.
and iris charred 6s. 6d. rent. Another man, who
was sick ter several seeks, had his rent paid all the time
by iie sick club. Neither was the system beneficial to
m isters themselves. Small capitalists set to work with
tte-. trams., and tieing unable to let them lie idle forced a
msrket, and thus depreciated prices on the Urge makers.
The mole resaecteb.e masters were solver,. pe Mit practice,
sod woheo the rel Woes between theta and their men to be
pat us • mere health y toting. The boa. baronet having
4aoted same letters from manufacturers in support of hue
iesattuoint, proceeded to say that another party, who felt
aell, was the setayeziachegy of the team I* 1849e is

Leicester, the numher io the workhouse was 871; readying
out door relief, 9,259; in 1350, 7,619; in 1831, 6,116 ; •Aa
lot Tear he was happy to say is eaMe down to 4,803. To
repair all these evils be merely Naked for a declarat,e4
carrying out the existing act to its legitimate extc• A
tt these frames to fair competition in c- to sub-
ien market,
teed of the present system • wh•
..ch as open
to the grossest abuses,
to
alter He propaseil
abolish the system
of arbitrary fines, an system, by which the
masters sought a prof' •
d •
tut on their own Ph' eau of on the work of their yr...,
e, which should always go to capital
Among 'AC arguments used by the opponents of
alteration, it Te• ai urged that the system of hiring out the
frames ene°r.eaged domestic labour, and an affecting pic-
ture was etawri of the happy homes of the workmen.
Any o'..•' however, who hail seen the manufacturing vil-
laicasof the midland counties, knew how different was the
sail reality. (Hear, hear.) Again it was said that it
afforded an opportunity for workmen to rise to the posses-
sion of frames. On the same principle a stave might become
a slave-driver, bat that was no argument in favour of
slavery. The hon. gentleman contended that the system
was against the provisions of the Track Act, and quoted Mr.
Huskisson's opinion on the relation between labour and
capital, delivered when that act was under discussion.
I • conclusion the hon. member urged the house to pass the
second reading of the bill, sa neceuary to carry out
that principle of free competition which could not without
some measure of the kind exist.
THE KINGSTON-ON-HULL AND CANTERBURY
BRIBERY COMMISSIONS.
Lord DRUMLANRIO appeared at the bar with her
Majesty's answer to the joint address of both houses, pray-
ing for a commission of inquiry :into the bribery at the last
election for Kingston-upon-Hull. Her Majesty stated that
directions had been given for issuing the commission. A
similar answer was given in the ease of the address in re-
ference to Canterbury.
CARLOW ELECTION PETITION.
The SPEAKER announced that he had received a com-
munication from the agent for the petition against the re•
turn for the county of Carlow, intimating the abandonment
of the petition.
PAYMENT OF WAGES BILL.
Mr. BIGGS warned hon. gentlemen opposite how,
by en ill-timed and ill-considered measure, based on un-
sound principles of political economy, they interfered with
a branch of our manufacture in which 100,000 people were
employed, and which involved a capitol of 31 millions. It
was singular that the political economy of the tories and the
country gentlemen was almost identical with that of the
lowest elm of the working population in the great towns—
those, he meant, who were usually called the rabble.
(Hear, hear.) So much so was this the case, that the
leading articles of the Morning l'ott and of the
Evening Star might be transferred from the
columns of the one paper to the other, without
any one detecting the change. (" Hear" anelaughter.)
There was another similarity between the two clesses—that
was, that both were fond of field sports, and too often of
low vices. (" Oh, oh," and laughter.) His conviction was,
that this bill, if passed, would be inoperative, or, if opera-
tive, that it would pat a stop to a great partials of the trade,
and injure rather than benefit those on whose behalf it was
brought forward. With regard to the working classes
themselves they were led to suppose that the effect of the
bill would be to give them the same wages net which they
now get in the gross, and that they would have nothing to
pay for rent and wear and tear of frames. There could not
be a greater falacy. or one that would occasion more disap-
pointment. These were his opinions as to the measure, bat
as a manufacturer, sod therefore to some extent, as it might
be supposed, interested in the matter, and as he wee 'NA
desirous not to vote against either the real or the supped
interest of the workman, he should take no part in the
division, but would leave the question in the hands of the
house.
Mr. PACKS observed that the hon. gentleman who had
just sat down had not advanced a single argument against
the principle of this bill, which was that these poor unfor-
tunate workmen should be enabled to get a fair day's wages
for a fair day's work, without the system of paying them
partly in money and partly in machine rent. The charge
of Is. and 2s. a week made for the use of these machines,
which did not cost more than 51. each in the first instance,

was outrageous. (Hear, hear) And the more so, u em-
ployment wu generally refused to any man who had his
own machine. The ham. gentleman had referred to the
farmers ; but they did not deduct so mach a week from the
labourer for the use of the plough and the harrow, but paid

him the fall wages.
Mr. STRUTT would not go into any lengthened
discussion on the present occasion as to how far the
factory or the domestic system was :preferable ; but he
was assured by numbers of the working classes themselves
that they would be disappointed if the effect of this measure
were to deprive them of the power of carrying on their
manufature at home—at their own pleasure and their own
homes. Ile was net prepared to deny that these people
were occasionally subject to oppression by the middlemen ;
but this trade did not differ in this respect from others
of • like character. It was • trade easily acquired,
mad carried on to a great extent by women
mod Andrea. This hail made labour abundant
and wages low, and as a consequence the woekpeople
were she. Ailed to submit to oppression in conseilassee of
the 4114111111111161. fee employment. And though these were
mils le be MI la some degree indirectly by those ereemra
width tend to *move the condition of the people gear
and enable the workmen to make agreements with
tle employers on fair terms, no direct legislation could
put an end to them. (Hear, hear.) lie believed that during
the last seven years the condition of the working clangs ,
had greatly improved, and that there had been no recur-
Noce of those sufferings which before that time were
frequent (Hear, hear.) It was curious, however, to re-
flect that the three hon. gentlemen whose names were at the
back of this bill had been systematically opposed to the
measures which had produced those results. (Cheers.) He
should be at all times happy to consider any measures
brought forward for the benefit of the working classes, but,
entertaining the views he did as W the present bill, it would
sot be honest in him to consent to the second rearing.
Mr. HUME could not estimate the talents of gentlemen
opposite at so low • rate as to suppose the believed what
they said as to We effect of this bill. They were the
greatest enemies of the working men, and were doing mis-
chief by these attempts to kgislate,—to do that which no
legislation could accomplish. It was most unjust to insinu-
ate that the manufacturers were influenced by other mo-
tives than those by which other classes were influenced.
They were necessarily subjected to those necessities which
competition entailed upon all. They were compelled to
get their work done at the lowest rate of wages, and to in-
troduce new machinery to meet that competition
by which they were opposed by the Saxon and
other foreign manufacturers. Since 1824 the men had
been free to meet end arrange with their masters as to the
rate of wages, hours of labour, and other matters affecting
them ; but this bill would put an end to that freedom et
masters and men to make agreements between them for
their muteal advantage. He admitted and regretted the
suffering to which the working classes were at times sub-
ject; but it was not to be prevented or rem, died by legis-
lation of this nature. He moved that the bill be read a
second time that day six months.
The Marquis of GRANBY—The questions for the house
to consider were, fleet, whether these poor people were
suffering to the extent alleged ; secondly, whether, if
they were, this bill would afford • remedy ? That the
suffering existed he had heard no one venture to deny.
This bill would be the greatest benefit to the working man
by enabling him to get his frames when he liked—in fact,
to buy in the cheapest and not in the dearest market. Hon.
gentlemen opposite said that the bill would be nugatory.
Well, if so, why did they oppose it? for surely it could do
no berm. (Cheers.) At any rate those who believed it a
end bill should be allowed to try it. (Hear, hear.) As
to what had been said of the sympathy of the country gen-
tlemen with the " rabble," why, he was proud of it.
Sir .1. WALMSLEY said that there was no man in that
house whose opinions he regarded with more respect than
those of his hon. friend the member for Montrose ; and he
believed that there was no man in that house or
out of it more disposed than was his hon. friend
to promote the welfare of the producing classes. (Cheers.)
It was, therefore, with the greatest reluctance that ho
dif-
fieeed hem him on this occasion. The question was one
whisk meld oily be decided by facts; and in confirms-
,ileaof what be bad said, he would venture to read to th
house • communication he had received from the frame-
I work knitters of Leicester. These people's story was to be
r told best in their own simple Isrgusge. They said :
" Leicester, March 14, 1853.
" Sir,—As we have heard that misrepresentations have
ban made in reference to the bill now before the House of
Commons, entitled ' A Bill to Secure the Payment of
Wages without Stoppages,' we feel it a duty we owe to
oseuslves on behalf of the trade to put you (as our repre-
inalative) in possession of our own views relative to the said
hill. Pint, as respects thequestion of the abolition of rent; we
do sot desire, as has been circulated, to use the machinery of
any person, whether manufacturer or not, without the
owner being enabled to secure to himself the same rights
sod advantages for the capital invested as is secured by
law Seth@ owuers of all other descriptions of property ; but
wile object that excessive rents and num* rats other de-
ductions on account of work being given should he wade
from wages, irrespective of the quantity of material deli- 1
vered out to be manufactured, the value of the machine, or
la the absence of any mutual contract. The legislature
paged an act in 1831 prohibiting the payment of wages in
goods or otherwise, but they did not prevent • master
whist goods on the same conditions as other people, pro-
viding they did nut deduct, or bargain to deduc', such debt
from the wages earned. With respect to the bill before the
house, we say there is nothing therein con:sined to prevent
• manufacturer or other persons from letting for hire any
frame; nor is there anything to prevent a workman from
hiring a frame from *limo he can agree with, on the same
conditions as all other property is let, or hired, or leased.
The word ' house,' inserted in line 4, clause 1, we think is
clearly indicative of our true meaning of all the terms re-
ferred to in the bill. No gentleman can supper° for a MO-
ment that we desire to netle in houses, whether the pro-
: perty of balers or others, without paying r ,nt ; nor do we
desire to force, directly or indirectly, any other principle in
respect to frame property, or refuse to pay fur any work
which may actually be performed by any other person on
their behalf ; but we do object to power being invested in
the hands of any person to deduct what they please under
custom alone from the earnings of labour without any court
of appeal accessible to them on account of heavy law en-
pease!. Second—ln respect of defective work we think all
questions which may &Ow under that term are already pro.
vided to under the act ~ Geo. IV., cap. ; and the frame
property of proprietors is protected under the act G & 7
Vie., cap 10. In cuocho too, se beg to state moot etnplt i-
ticoliy that w° ilijure all intention at prit•ent, or htr the
future' to interfere in any degree with the rights of pro-
perty, holding that each person has a right to let, lease, or
gsL oa trim best Wml lax con, bit ye also kohl that the