The Express.
London, England, 1849-04-20 00:00:00

to giving government aid to smite emigration ; of that house that further contributions should be taaieiee
and he die not think the oleo bons of the noble lord (Ras Ireland towares the relief of her own deem, the etti
sell) to this proposal were welleuuneed. The notes lord question wee how they mull be most fairly and ease, fie!
assumed that the only way of assisting emigration was by peed. The hem. member foe Cothermouth spoke of me
paying the passage money ; but there were many other ways evidence of Mr. Twistleton. The opinion of Mr. Twistletee
in which enterprise might be stimulated, not checked. He was against the rate in aid, and in favour of the gyre, of
knew an instance where a large proprietor in Ireland had grants from the imperial treasury. The opinions fm then
madded to emigrate from his estates, sines the °murmurs of were very strong. (Opposition cheers.) Did he (the Chu.
the famine, not lees than 3,060 poor people ; within the last cellar of the Exchequer) ever deny it. He always admitted
few weeks he bad contracted to send out 46 families more, at that the arguments against the rate th aid were sir web,
the same time refusing 184 because his means wen ex- sowers the argunentsagainst the income tot (new) ob,.
hunted. And why was thin? Because he had not only fore he did not see what hon. gentlemen made of that ohm
unt them out of this country end landed then in But the hon. gentleman epee. site was opposed to grime het
the treasury, which he denounced as mitchievi dareme
Caned', bat had charged himself with their mainte-
nance for a certain period afterwards, by finding them impolitic, and unmet, and it was not the view of the f-e7,e
thet,
labomur for sixteen weeks after they landed, by setting meroben generally that aUCCfall
member for Longford iVa marts should be ews
at work on a government railway whichhad from the treasury. The hon. melee.
been established in Canada. But for this, he would have hon. member ler Kerry proposed modes for obtaining ease
Mee able to sent out more than double the number. It tributions from Ireland bersele. The question then nee,
was obvious the government would be able to employ poor what way could Ireland be made to contribute in the see
emigrants on their arrival in the colonies much more easily easy way to herself for the relief of her own des:entice f
aed economically than an individual could. It had also been The notion of a rate In aid had been suggested in Inked
suggested that, en the else of emigrants to Australia, the long before it was proposed by the government. A
passage-mon y might be raid, and a bond taken for its re- measure of the nature of a rate in aid bad tele
payment after their arrival; and it was the opinion of the applied by the 23d of Geo. 111., ch. 63, for the relief of die,
colonists that very few would forfeit such hoed. A third end tressed districts its the north of Scotland. The diminution of
extremely valuable suggestion bad been thrown out by Mr. the area of taxation could afford no relief in the distrartd
Bonier in his evidence, that govern:none should have the district. of Ireland, circumscribe it as much as they ewe.
power of emigrating a certain number of poor from those A measure with that object then would not be of env no,
estates on which they had become a burden, and Tasking the They had not yet learned how far relief would be a5,,,64
expense a charge upon the estate, with the power of corn- by an income tax. The only other measure then was th,
Dolling its regiment in the same way as arrears of poor of a rate-inthid. And he found th et, at a meeting of
rate. But the question now under consideration war, gates from the different poor law guereians of be.
whether or not they should establish • permanent land, which had been held last autumn in lestesse
feeliey in Ireland. They had the choice of two for the purpose of considering what amendments Nee
distinct policies, either to treat Ireland as it had been he suggested to the present poor law, a swm.
treated hitherto, or to alopt another retiree. The don of thin nature had been made an, ege „hem
noble lord at the bead of the I overnment told the mto look The principle of a national rate was therefore append b,
forward to a good harvest: the right hon. baronet opposite the delegates of the Irish guardians. It bad been Minted
told them that a good harvest would only be a calamity, as to the measure in that house, that the rate would be to,
leadine to a renewal of the old state of things. He believed exclusively on one description of property. Sees an elite.
that legislation was answerable for the evil of Ireland— tion might be urged spinet any rate in sid, to whatnot
(hear, hear) ;—the legislature was deeply culpable for tee purpcst applied. An hon. gentleman bad, however, oppcee4
present state ef that country. The calamity had not come the bill on the ground that it was mean: to preside merely
without wattling or unawares. Nearly 10 ye .ra ego a con- for the preservation of life, and that the mop ey vied we,
Mateo had reported that femme oneehird of the whole not to go in aid of emiaration. Emigration was, In esete,
population were occasionally in the habit of rec-iving relief ; included in the government plan, bat the ereserration
and in the four counties in which there was the meat die- life afforded alone a sufficient ground of tau-:port. Ireland
thou it was known that the average life of man had been had a strong claim upon the symenthy of this ottani; im
reduced to 26 years. Here were two startling facts in one if she showed • disposition to contribute fairly towards the
of the most fertile countries in the world, a large proportion support of her own poor, this country would not refute to
of the inhabitants were habitually paupers; and in one of render her that further assistance to which see would be
the meat healthy, the average life of man was sherened by entitled. The hon. member for Kerry (Mr. Herbert) lee
ten years. Who dared shut their eyes, and remain caret as objected to the tax, en the ground of what be termed its
of these facie? The interests of England and of the topire anti-union tendency, contending that it was a step towards
were at stake. The question was, whether they would rot the reparation of the two countr,es. He fret he clamed
ream themselves, and endeavour to work out • nobler eta- equality of taxation, and when that existed Irelacd woeld
tiny fir Ireland—whether, by infusing new elements of hope, have a claim on the imperial exchequer. The hon. goat..
life, and prosperity into their system, they would at once in- man had also attacked the goverament for endeammine to
mew* the resources and add to the security of the empire— obtain the opinions of hon. members opposite. He (the
whether they would relieve themselves from the intolerable Chancellor of the Exchequer) bail considered it to be 'germ
harden of Irish pauperism, by doing what it was their duty upon in that house that party gee stions should be introdeese
to do—whether they would come to the condderatios of as little as possible into the discussion of Irish questions.
thane questions in a higher and more generous spirit than (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman said the course pained
had hitherto been displayed. They could not mime the by the government was unprecedented in his peelismentuy
responsibility. The right hon. baronet (Sir It. Peel), by experience.
raising the dimension of these querques, had put them on Mr. HERBERT intimated his dissent from this slato
their trial before the country and the world. (Hear, hear.) ment.
And if they could not rise at once to the dignity of great
taint so understoed the bon. gentleman. With record to
• •l s let them at least show that they were emenei- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER earl eer.
princep e ,
the meeting in Downing-street, considering the preient pond nom the thraldom of small devices. and were ashamed
of the degradation of mean and mischievous makeshifts.
Lion of belied, it appeared to him only fair and reasonable
(Hear, hear.) that the government should endeavour to ascertain the spit
The of Irish members, (hear,hear) and they were liebleto
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had
listened to the speeches of the hoe. gentlemen who had pre any imputation for the effort mado to obtain theme opining
ceded him with great interest ; and it mirk' hive been sup-
meet happy would he be to bear his own share of the blame,
meted from the *twitch of the hon. member for Cockereuouth (Hear, hear..
y With regard to the quest en of ramose;
(Mr. Homan) that they were now discus, ng the Rate in
other taxes, his noble friend had ota:ed dieinctly that he
Aid Bill. The proposal of the hon. member far Kerry (Mr. dirl not propose to go beyond the rate in aid. tie (the Clan.
Herb tett wan one which cnil t not fail to command the
sr of the Exchequer) thought it quratieneble whether, if
at elven' of the house ; reel he did not think that many Irish an income tax were levied in Ireland on the same elem... as
members hart concurred in those views. Three bad cap- -
In England, without fixing a lower minimum amount of in•
pollee the proposition ; two had d. dared themselves against
come, it would produce as muck as a rate in aid. The me
it ; and two neither concur ed in it nor the proposal tf the osal of a substitute fora rate in aid was not row received
government, hut protested against any addicional burden P
with so much favour as it had been. (H tar, hear.) As a•
whatever b sing thrown open Ireland. He could enure the .
greed the people of Ulster, it appeared to him that their
hon. gentleman opposite that it was quite unnecessary for
feeling on the subject was one of opposition to all taxation;
him to deprecate any expression of reproach from him
con- they simply wished that no further burdens might be the
H
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer).
- 8 was not meted on Ireland. He had, on previeus occasions, proposed
stious of having ever uttered a stogie word in the lame and grants to benefit Ireland; hoe, without
way of reproach or taunt against Irish mamba"' (R"r• then entering into the question whether or sit
hear.) It had been his painful duty now, for nearly - the moue had been applied in the beet mu
three years, to hear and read, week by week, tales of misery Cr,ne must
ed distress from that country, which had filled him with far , say he had always thought that Ireland
se sh-nld be biped• through her present crisis. (Neu, k eel
coca deep a sympathy for the suffering privoling so eaten-
But the manifestation of en indisposition on the part of hide
sive'', in Ireland, to allow him to be diverted from' that members to contribute towards th 's object, would he no in.
which he believed to be hie duty, even by any angry or in- ducement to members from other parts o: the empire to en
temperate observation which he might hest from the Irish
members. (Hear, hear.) He knew how we 11 disposed hon. tend to Ireland further insistence. In preparing this nee.
sure the government had been influenced by the feeling that
gentlemen were to impute whatever went wrong in Ireland
it imposed the lightest burden beemeans of which relief could
to the government; but he knew also how great was the afforded to the suffering portion of the community.
suffering in parts of that country He could therefore assure be
them he would hear patiently the reproaches which they Mr. DISRAELI said that the first half of the spode el
made under circumstances which rendered it moat natural the 'Wit hon. gentlemen was f suoded on an asnimptim
for them to make. He would net lee induc •d by them to that members on that side of the house were onoeed to any
offer an answer to the imputations which had been thrown grant of public money, as extraneous aid to Ireland in her
out. It was hie wish to avoid anything that could excite distresses. The right hon. ger.tleman was not warranted
angry feeling darkest the course of the debate, and this assumption. No gentleman on that side if the home
he should be sorry that any person should suppose had, at any period of the session, opposed a grant ts
i that the government would be temp'ed to be Ireland; all that bad been insisted upon was that
driven from whet they conceived to be their euty any grant given to Ireland should be accompanied site roue
by any feeling of that description He could south the measure or measures calculated to prevent the necessity fa
gentlemen connected with Ire line, that if he stimuli feel it a recurrence of such appeals to the ',abider.) in them
Fie duty to point out how the conduct of the Irish members (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentlemen bad taunted the
had aggravated the difficulties of dealing with this question, hen. member for Northamptonshire as though he had bin
he did not mean to do it in the way of reproach, but with a guilty of inconsistency in this matter thrush
feeliug of regret that these diffinelties, grave in themselves, the -hon. gentlemen bad not on a memorable oast
hat been aggravated by the course which some of them had aeon that session, distinctly maniinted what were
thought it right to pursue. The government had been the feeling' of members on his aide of the house on this rub•
accused of ignorance of the festinate of the people of jr. land, jest. The right hon. gentleman had read with great en-
and had been reproached with neglecting the suggestions of phasis a resolution which had been submitted to that house,
their representatives. For himself he could say that he was not as proving the imputation of inconsistency he made suite
guilty of neglecting any suggestion made by Irish members, the hon. gentleman ; and having read that resolution the
with • view of improving the condition of that country. It right hon. gentleman had shut up the volume whecce he read
was bus they did sometimes advert to the differences of it, quite as though the resolution stood there alone, and et
opinion which existed amongst the Irish members, but they though that resolution was not ncenmpanied there by tea
must themselves admit that it in a great degree added to the other resolutions, one of which emphatically enunciates the
difficulty of adopting any of those suggestions that opinions principle that meanie non that tide of the house were pa-
th* most orsposed to each other were given by themselves. fleetly prepared to assist the government in ante leg
(Hear.) He had stated, oa more than one occasion, that a such :en emergency as that laid before them
great revolution was taking place, at least in the west of the case of Ireland, but that in doing so they felt
Ireland. He attributed the condition of that country to the imperatively bound to call upon the government to construct
loos of the potato crop for three successive years, but at the same time such measures as should be calculated to
the hon. member for Coikermeuth attributed it to the prevent the recurrence of the emergency. (Hear, lone
malmdmiui tration of the poor law, and the end-legisla. The right hon. gee demon had deprecated the involute=
sloe of that house. (Hoar, hear.) Hon. gentlemen op- into this discussion of any consideration touching the Irish
opposite attributed it to the working of the poor poor law ; but this deprecation had not hindered the right
law in its details. But could any person who considered hon. gentleman from himself introducing the tufted of the
the subject for r moment doubt that :he real cause was the area of taxatien ; the illustration which the right hoe, gee
abandonment of their holdings by thousands of p. none whose tleman bad made use of on thie topic, the case of the news
staple food had failed, and the consequent distress and ruin of Kilrush, was a most unfortunate one for his poetise. The
which had fallen upon the proprietors, who could not get sight bon. gentleman had shownthe most extraordinary Mae
their rents which they bat heretofore derived from the cul. try in scraping together, from every. conceivable and interrite
tare of the potato, and not to tie large lIIZ3 of the area of able quarter, evidence of all sorts in favour of hie rats is aid
taxation. (Hear.) It might be that the poor low had at- scheme ; but an hon. gentleman en that side of the holes
gravated the pressure on property, hut no person could doubt had anticipated the right hon. gentleman is the,
.by tee
.
that life had been saved, and that the destitution and misery produetion of a similar mass of ev.duce. which mate .
of the people had been mitigated partly by the effects of the buoyed the right hon. ger.tlemaces case. The areumelote th...
poor law and partly also by the assistance which had been the right hon. gentleman were supported by engulf:lend!,
glven for that purpose by this country. (Hear.) But when lic:tous authorities. The right hon. eitudeuthe hid referred
the Irish members themselves said more than once to the 23 Oeo. 111. for a precedent which was to "Mai."
that this assistance only tended to aggravate the distress, pure ment triumphantly through on this occoion, that
and was even no benefit to the thousands whom it saved from to say, be quoted as the precedent ter
law
a Ta:t ia
the last misery of starvation, ne person should be surprised aid, the case of a country where no poor
%use*
if English and Scotch members felt lima disposed than they and the population being, from the occurrence of 1110:
Oulargiall would be to extend that relief which was absolutely spread calamity, in a state of starvation, commirsd ioce
met
neermary if they meact to save life in Ireland. The hon. supply in each county of Scotland were empowere ratosaseaber for Roscommon had said that it was a breach of sums in each county for the relief of the suffering pee.
faith on the part of parliament that 1,800,0001. was levied This might be a precedent for a poor law—spread wbiee,
tinder the poor law last year for the relief of Irish destitu- in the particular case, was not followed, but it wain ye.
lien, because it had been stated that 350,0001. would be the cadent for a rate in aid. (Hear, hear.) The cam se fp
probable amount. Now, although he could not see by right hon. gentleman, as it rested upon the argument of the
what perversion of words this could be construed into a breach Mysterious Society in Dublio,of which none of the geodledge.
esist
knowledge that an additional burden of 1.300,0001., ex. was eenally baseless. He (Mr. Disraeli) should most teff
tweeted from an empoverished country like Ir. lend by the questionably vote for the amendment of his hon. (needd
ds
poor law for the year ending last September, beyond whet member for Kerry, called upon as he was to decide berstel:
was considered the ordinary amount, showed an immense that amendment and the rate in aid. (Hear, hest)
exertion en her part—more than English and Scotch mem- should vote for that amendment mainly, though not
;Les
ben were disposed to allow, and which exertions on the
seemed tea have any know
of faith on the put of parliament, yet he was ready to ac- connected with the locality
part tiney, for the reason which lord been stated by moth
of the people of Ireland constituted a fair and just claim on one hen. gentleman, and in the last instance by the 10,!•
thn
country which was suffering unparalleled distress and had tion in which he found the legislature
the consideration of the house for some assistance to a member for Longford—that was to say, in the &Seeder*
made unparalleled exertion.. (Hear, hear.) He would for an Income tax rather than;for • rate in aid, beams le sa
not then enter into the question of the area of taxa- that an income tax would not press on the small fine;
stem, which would be more properly discussed when the whereas a rate in aid would. (Hear, hear.) Mel taiteo
bill for the amendment of the poor law came a consideration which he though ought peculiulv to Irma
under consideratioe, farther than to say that if they were di- wi h those members who coos dead that the sm
minished to the smalleet extent such • measure could have especially, had been most:grievously oppressel 'e'er
no effect in mitigating the distress of such unions as Clifden fatal policy of the parliament in relation to the corafte.
and Bellies, tow ch extraneous aid meet still be supplied (Hear, hear.) He considered it highly desirable thee!:
if is these unions was to be preserved. (Hear, hear.) proceeds of a general property and 'some to,
When the government proposed • grant for the relief of should be levied from Irish sources, should bs fe
distress to Ireland, which—whatever general measure might culiarly, should b 3 solely applied to heaS,
be &doped—was absolutely indispensable as a measure of em- poses. (Hoer, hear.) Re did not imagine Sast:ere;
mediate relief, it was opposed, indeed, by some English and any particular gain would accrue to the empire from
Scotch members, and when the hen. member for Montroee arrangement, but the arrangement was one whieb ref
stated that 16e. in the pound poorrate had been paid last ear be agreeable to Irish feelings, to toe just plias of BMW;
plead—fee sithuldeees.
in his parish, it was hardly fair to call on this country (Hear, hear.) He was also in favour of an ink tar'
to contribute to the relief of distress in Ireland. But the cease it wss an impest which would touch all speciee.oe C
main opposition come from the hon. gentleman opposite— party, and act as • protection against that system unto::
(Mr. Stafford), who moved an amendment to the govern so long prevailed of oppressing the land with ceteliee.
meet proposition, and who pointed out the injustice of call- then. (Hear, hear.) lie bad no confides in • rates=
ine on the people of this country to contribute to the relief of for this reason above all others, that, as was d._ ess....
Irish distress. Another Irish gentleman raid, that Irish f ro- dent to him as to the hou eat liege, sea tf". the!'
perry ought to msiutain Irish poverty ; end the noble lord try at large, that government bad no conti lence in it
ths
the member for the county of Down said, it was enly rea- selves. (Hear.) When the house first met th'eara.
seeable that the poverty
.of Ireland the uld be maintained
said, lion
proposition made to it by the government
Ireland. His hon. fnene the member fa Matte taid, tion that had been looked forward to with such deep in woe
it
ter.) Well, when English and Scotch members heard moe to give temporary
that he did not want " our dirty money." (Laugh- the proposition, namely, merely for a flll,ll Oa
such declarations from the members from Ireland, what snares of extreme disappointment in and out of U 4
could be more natural for them than to say that this country (Hear, hear.) The sufferings of Ireland were neither
should not be taxed to support the distress and destitution of in date nor novel in character; their nature and their e... 1;
Ireland ? (Hear, hear.) But the government felt it to be had been manifest to the government as to tee coo I;et
essential that extraneous aid should be given, if life was to long period previously, throughout 'the winter, tambge eta
be preserved. Take the case of the nnien or Kilrush. No the autumn, to go no further back, awe the home so the
Loa than 13,000 persons bed been turned locee within the country had, therefore, the fullest right to eseet_te be
relief to Ireland, was natetheleosa
list year from that union. (Hear, hear.l Their houses were upon the assembling of pasliament government weeeee
pulled down, and the people driven forth he:mochas prepared with some distinct and emphatic remedialmemer,
was set
and helmet-is. (Hear, hear.) Raw were they to be AU that the government had to propose, however, fe die
maintain, d? (Hear, beer.) It was impossible that they advance of a small sum of money to stave off imnedla
could be maintained without extraneous aid ,• and what true, and the appointment of a committee to inquireeoetheen"
was it but bitter mockery to talk of "self-reliance" to a Irish poor law. The impolicy of this line of eon teite` es
the kindly feelings of the hon. member for Northamptnn-
people in that condition ? (Hear, hear.) If he del not know forcibly urged upon the government, but to no peerr ; eee
shire, he should not know what to think of his opitg such it was only when the general feeling of indi:nsat
sum was voted, the committee was app.the
lenge/lee in refereuce to a people in such ea condition. He appointment that prom ed the country became eotee.
would not read the p:ainful details of the accounts which he cell,' manifest to then o 8 tl at the noble !..7.
received of this union, which was not s neuter in this denly, precipitately—he might almost say with eel' ism',
respect, although the extent to which evict!. ns hat leen came down and proposed a measure, making it these' erf
carried was not perhaps so great in other Ulli.llo. As it was clod:Von oa his proposition, that tee commute of
woe we
the opinion of the great majority of the members should not inquire. (Hear, hear.) When b°