The Express.
London, England, 1849-05-18 00:00:00

THE FXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, MAY 18, 1849.

IMPERIAL P.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TIMSDAT, MAY 17.
The firsaisti took the chair ot 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
THIRD READING S.—Edinbureft and Glasgow Rail-
way end &lineage inn Gamow Union Canal (ameleama-
tion or ask or lease of the Union C
an
to the Railway
Company); London Gas Light Company (meadows% of
sot) ; Staffordshire Potteries Waterworks (omission and
amendment of act) ; Bills.
LORDS' AMENDMENTS CONSIDERED.— Marsh-
land Sates* and Fen (equalisation of drsinage rates and
repair of roads) ; Whitehaven Waterworks ;
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
CArrreL Pus ba
thesnrs.— By Mr. BROTHERTON,
frees Manchester, abolition of capital punishmests.
CSARITABLZ Tauzin BILL.—. By Mr. SPOONER,
from the trustees of Rusty school, praying to be exempted
from amain provisions is the Charitable Trusts Bal.
REGISTRATION OF FIETNS, DISTIL, AND 'LASZLO'S
(Inzwin).—By Mr. GROGAN, for .zteadiag this prin-
ciple to Ireland.
EIMITHFUILD MARILZT:EILL.—BT Mr. OSBORNE, from
graziers and butchers connected with Smithfield Market,
praying to be board by counsel against this bill.
EXTENSION or TES 817171 AGE.—By Mr. OSBORNE,
from metals working clams. ; Mr. COBDEN, on behalf of
Mr. Hew,' from Ors at Vermouth (693 signature.), Lou-
den (19) Backe-hall Elisio, (8) ; Ralston, Berwickshire
(133); Larkin, Stirling (102) ; Bainford (48), Dysart,
Whititury (21) ; cabinet snakiest Edinburgh (38), for the ex-
tension of, and for manhood suffrage.
Bain Boum—By Mr. COBDEN, from inhabitants of
Dewsbury, Yorkshire ; Mr. PETO, from Lowestoft, for the
obeli ion of licensee to beer-houses.
CRITICS Paornarv.—By. Lord H. VANE, from Bar-
nard Cutts, against the nusappropriation of church pro-
Pity-
MALT Tex —By Mr. COBDEN, on behalf of Mr. Hume,
host 13 parishes in the hundred of Dim, Norfolk, for the
repeal of the malt tax.
Vozencr EIIIONATION.—By Mr. AOLIONBY, from the
New Zealand Company, ageism convict emigration.
PAILLLUSINTANT AND FinanciAL RIFORII. AND
EQUALISATION or Taxarion.—By Sir J. WALIISLEY,
from the parish of Kennington, Mulolesex ; Mr. Alderman
RUMPRERY, from 11.,uthwark ; r.PET (14), from
parishes in
.Norwieh, Lakanham, and Trams, in favour of
these propositions.
Sires Taram—By Mr. PETO, from Norwich, calling
&Bastion to the extent of the Brazilian slave trade.
ARBITRATION TREATIII& INSTEAD or War..—By Sir J.
WALMPLEY, from Wesleyan Methodists of West Leigh,
Lancashire; Mr. PETO, from Norwich, Seraffhain, and
Nostahaad, in favour of this proposition.
Unmet or Consmaxcn.—By Mr. PETO, from Brain-
tree, Emu, and .rom Noeton, Norfolk, for the repeal of the
laws affecting liberty of conscience.
Manalzoas BILL.—By Mr. S. WORTLEY, from Wor-
ley, in favour of this bill.
COUNTY FINANCIAL BOARDS.—By Mr. W. BROWN,
from Crouton, Wiodle, Bold, Knowsley, Widnes, and Dit-
to., all in Lancashire, in favour of the establishment of
these bomb, to be composed of poor-law guardians and

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magistrates.
Coranoin EIMANCIIIIIMENT BILL.—By Mr. AG-
LION BY (2), from planes in Suffolk, and from a plans in
Yotkatart, in favour of this bill.

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Mr. LABOUCHERE presented a petition on behaU of
the Attorney-General, prayitig that the hoe. and learned
c before
might be enabled to appear in his legal capacity
a private committee, on a bill under which land had
bee* taken which had been devoted to charitable purposes.
After a few words in explanation by the Arroarav-
Onnuur., it was ordered that the petition be referred to
the committee, and that the Attorney-General have liberty
to appear before them.
EASTERN COUNTIES RAI
ATION.—MIL LWAY. HUDSON'S
EXPLAN
Mr. DIVETT presented a petition from 31 shareholdses et
the Easters Counties Railway, residing in Dove— e,
making certain gray *sales ;against the hoe. member fort
brought up
Sunder's: d, in Idsd, apaski chairman to the company, and
preying the expulsion- of du ho
and read by the Cl member trom the house.
The petition was rk at the
table. It stated that the petitioners were shareholders ill
an undertaking =Sid the Eastern Counties Railway ' of
which said undertaking George Hudson, a member of the
Mesa& was the asinine. That the petitioners were in.
and verily believed It to be true, that the mid
lenge Hudson so sating in the capacity of chairman of the
, seal eempany had from time to time named tai be; made
I
sod published a statement, purporting to be a true ac-
mune of the receipts and disbursements of the said eons-
pemy which be kaew4eo be false and untrue, whereby the
Isismiltelders were grossly deceived and the petitioners
empty minted t the petitionen therefore prayed the hones
es sages inquiries to be made into the truth of those charges,
sod, if they should be true, that the said George Hudson
might be expelled from being a member of the home, and
that the house would adopt such • course as might seem fit
le prevent a continuance of such practices, whereby thou-
sands of subjects were daily ruined.
Mr. CHARTERIS presented a petition signed by 60
shareholders of the Eastern Counties Railway. They stated
that immediately after George Hudson and David Wad-
IMO= became members of the house they became chair-
man sad deputy-chairman of the board of directors of the
Eastern Counties Railway, sad that J. Bushaw was also a
director, and they prayed the house to institute an inquiry
bee the management of the affairs of the company. This
w forwarded is him, and therefore he presented
Zlitsta as
he offered no opinion as to the prayer of the petition.
Mr. HUDSON—I felt it my duty, although labouring
under cos sientrable difficulty, to attend in my place imme-
diately that I received a copy of the petition which the hon.
member presented. In doing so, sir, I hope I shall hays the
dad thulium, of every gentleman whilst I offer to the
boom sins elianatioos and explanations with reference to
dm tie patties* Sir. if I had been guilty of the practices
erhidi are imputed to me designedly, without sufficient
essue, I might feel that I had committed an error ; but it
was not an intenional error on my part. Sir, say first con-
nexion with this company was in 1846—1 believe in October.
I received • deputation, bringing • requisition, signed, at
sofas length by shareholders. I refused in the Ink it
steam, to take on oneself the office, bat attic some pee I
did undertake it. Before that I bed se sham Y lbe aim
”ny, no interest in it whatever -ere In omegas* with
it in any way whatever. My sole shiest was te endeavour.
if possible, to benefit the shareheidoes of the company, and
effect suns arrangement with the Sam projected line. Upon '
my accession to the office I devoted myself as anxiously and
assiduously to the amiss u I mealy could. I believe the
Seel shams it thee I raised the dividend from Bs. to 9s.
Than ih hi sae albs petiolate the following pangsaph
UM the dodged big b. la :mum It was math 91. without
my iris of dismatinses to thaw ea sash asnmsendim I mid
reasseemes ef tins Oahe tyke there ewe • Ilegree d memelaws
theta would set otharslre law bees domed et; Met the Meg In.
areasewas from kaoo,oool. to 10,000,0001.
It so happens that the market value of the shares was
higher at the time I joined them than they have ever hem
sines. The petitioners state most dinnctly there wss
no change of circumstances no reason why we should
go from • dividend of 31. to 91: When I state to the hose
the facts, I think the home will agree with me that that is
not justified by the facts ef the ease. In the Wallow ending
July, 1846, the income was 114,0001. ; in the hall year end-
ing January, 1846, it had risen to 173,0001., being an In-
agua of near 60,0001. There was a justification for some I
increase of dividend. Those who inspect the books my the
dividend was right except as te • sum of 11,0001. As far as
the dividend is concerned there is ample justification for the
increase. They state all the capital of the company to bs
from 9,000,0001. to 10,800,0001. That is not true. Than.
pied of the company when I joined was 2,900,0001.A1iad
1,400,0001. of the North Eastern Company, which made the
ethical of the company 4,300,0001. 'Then there was added
In it • beaus of sae mothion which made it 5,300,0001., and
thrashes the money esta•B ded since I had the'
bums d priddieg ever the Board was five and a half mil.
Rims. The theme when I *sod it was 245,0001. ; last
yew it was 900,0001. I think the eemplslnt of the petition
that the gnaw was wastefully sad extramgeally expended
alb to the resod when the inseams of capital was
tidy two-thirds, the thermos el the income four
then the exasemi. It has him mid In the report ef
the investigative and as too ths esmomittes I would
implode most dimply of its peessellap—l had rid
milies, se knowbdige of what was pasime evassiam—
I bed no intimation Ostia/4k sad sash amistisee wave mitho
egoist me se sa individuel, sad when I called la the mem
hog te show the mbar esaddloot is whisk I was pies* ding
with a friend, to see the dosowesat which purpmed le be in
ate handwriting, and with my =Sul out
Ilest ia obiatMg sight of ths "we sosto
sm it, I wee Massa it ia the meows any other ;meth
leritssedf, sad they them consented that two of the body
erne into the room sad show it, on condition that I
Medi ink se questions. (Hese, bear.) I don't know what
the hems may think of mesh essiest, bat I am sure there
that it is but fair
Vitt thee taimmeue• shield he fumbled to us of the
'charges. (Hoar, hear.) We sea of the desammet
la my isadwritiag. air, I totally obey they are dewed by
me at all. The evidence of the sessualeat is that Ass the
alterations were made they were de by the be
e only charge _in the report fa that I dewed
••'h ma
of 10,0001 , that it might stand assn 0111
ant yea:. It might have erissa from the male-
Ash in ;kind. The individual die* sags I Mil
these marks on the
sa
atly
paperslesseitir.l dodo. t, well his given easit withers ef
ne seatradistocy hat, im my
empathy, I abated it at all. But it is stated by
the sessaittes, that I authedied the carrying of 116,0001. of
revenue In eapitsi. I ;bave no limitation in mythic I did
net authorise anything of the sett. I Sad, from looking at
the working expenditure of this Ilse, the published not
thews • working meridians ef 1,1261. pperr mils. The'
wasersietse make it 1,1501. per Wis. The Bimaiykam b3O
per seat ; the Booth Waiters, 39 ; and the esmaittee
would have: the public believe, that to work the line it'
would require 66 per eel. The is es wismeine sad
&beard, that no person having rellweg wad
an• that such an mound veva be thded the work-
lag of the lime. This is brought how* aolut:RogY, ale,l
as • gran charge. If it wars One. I Amu mint
that I had been Mimed bus rash is verse ; dish
the hams will agree with ma theft the asiedlittie In the
rigid,. and the swam they have midi& and she mimes
they lave shown, are not sslltid N the malt
'the louse. The petitioners imbeds or broadly assert
that I have dome this for the sake Of relit. That I totally
defy. Let any gentleman sem* the scgieler, and they

will find the registered stink when I first joined the cam-
; that I have suffered to a large extent - that 1 still
bold the stock which I held when I first joined the company.
In the registry in the book you will find there has been no
change in the stock. (Hear, hear) I do not know that
there is any other part to call for any explanation. The
accountant states distinctly that any alterations which were
made he belie,' a were made by the directors,
ard, therefore, the petition ought not only to be
against me. I held joint responsibility with the others.
I nev. r signed • cheque oa the company in my life. I
merely presided over them. I endeavoured to do my duty.
I may have taken too sanguine a view of the undertaking,
but I am a sufferer along with the rest in
am that sanguine
view. In order that this undertaking might ply remu-
nerate the shareholders, it has been my anxious wish to
force down the expenditure. I thrive myself on the hones,
perfectly ready to submit to any decision which the house
may adopt. lam ready to clear away
.any imputed= which
has been cast upon me in reference to this underuddeg. I have
not designedly dens anything to advance the &arm or
gave an undue value to them. At the time I joined the
company the whole of the locomotives were totallyout f
o
repair. A large =mat had been expended on the improve-
ment of the lead, and I do not think it was unfair to charge
a considerable amount of that to the revenue it being a most
extraordinary state of things which then existed. You willsee
from the report published this morning that another company
has placed 150,0001. to capital. Toe chairman, instead of
being blamed by the committee, is praised and extolled. I
think, if the house will determine what is capital and what is
revenue—what ought to go to capital and what ought to go
to avenue—the directors would have no difficulty ; they
would be guided by the strict law of the house. Nothing is
more clinical% nothing is attended with more anxiety. I
recollect a cue in which the Grand Junction charged
14,0001. for repairs ; it was taken from revenue end placed
to capital.. Ido not know why one law should apply to the
Eastern Counties and another to any other company. I
have anxiously discharged my duty—a duty most cinema
and most difficult. I leave it to the hone to deal with the
petition as they may think proper. I have no ether expla-
nation to give than a total denial that the figures were my
handwriting, or that I altered them at all in any way on the
paper. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WADDINGTON.—Sir, It h • most painful duty fee
me to follow the hon. gentleman the, member ,for Sunder-
land. I should not have ventured to address you if I had
not thought the house entitled to a short explanation from
myeelf, inasmuch as I am charged with being • party to
deceiving the shareholders, whereby the shareheiders
have been induced to embark in hostile lines. I avail
myself of this opportunity of calling the attention
of the home to the fact how it is that these
statements make their appearance. It is from the report of
the investigation committee, and my object more particularly
in rising is to claim the indulgence of the house to detail a
few of the proceedings of the committee as regards myself,
inasmuch as I feel the house has an interest in my character'
and should not be surprised by the committee making a state-
ment to which I was not a pa ty. r I alluded to that on a
firmer occasion in which the committee made a charge, on
*hick a committee of this house was appointed.
On • recent occasion, when I had an opportu-
nity of addressing the shareholders, they agreed to
slipup the clause, and yet, on the face of much explana-
tion, the clause did appear in the report as emanating from
the committee. Therefore I appeal to the house as to the
conduct of the committee who made the report which they
did, inserting that which their own body agreed should lie
struck out, because it was imperfect, and I call on the house
to bear in mind the evidence given before the committee, in-
asmuch as I bad not the slightest opportunity of correction
any statement As to what has linen from the hon. mem-
ber for Sunderland, I believe the accountant gave it as his
opinion that it was not the writing of the hon. member.
The hon. member having denied it, I have nothing further
to say on the subject. As to the various charges in the
committee and the statement as to my liability, those liabili-
ties were not correct. I repeat that opinion now. I com-
plain that they did not give me an opportunity, when then
made their report on this particular point, of answering dui-
ing the sitting of the committee. In reference to an investi-
gation which may take place of my conduct, I shall be
extremely happy to bow to any decision of the house,
feeling convinced the house will arrive at this conviction
that for the last three years of my life I have
devoted myself to promote the interests of the Eastern
Counties Railway. If I have erred, it has been in judg-
ment only; and I have done everything to place the line in
a sound state.
Mr. HUDSON—AIIew me to add one thing which I had
quite forgo•ten. (Hear.) I was merely going to show the
incorrectness of the committee's report resenting the amount
of money which is stated to have been carried over from re-
venue to capital. The committee has forgotten that the
sum of 27,0001 , according to the rule which they laid down
for the working of the line, is due from another company
to this oompaay, and is net put in their ear and,
therefore, by the sum of 22,00 N. it is perfectly c they
are wrong. It only shows the hurried way in which the
committee has reported.
Mr. BACISHAW—I belong to the Northern and Eastern
Board, and it is se stated in the committee's report. One.
third being shareholders in the Eastern Counties, there are
six gentlemen sitting on the Eastern Counties Board who
hold shares in this company. I am one of these ;
but, u we owe no allegiance to the 60 gentlemen who
have signed this petition out of 14,000 shareholders—
though we owe no allegiance to these gentlemen, we owe •
great deference to the opinion of this house. lam not a
very young member of it, m you all linos., and if 1 were to
be thought ea ble of having acted as the hon. gentlemen
who composed the committee of investigation have done, I
should k myself quits unfit to sit in this house at this
moment. Having mentiomed that Ib, long to the Northern
and Eastern board, I may mention as a vindication that
the board of the Eastern Counties have had a meet-
ing this morning. This ease has been gone into
by my hon. colleagues, and I am proud to say I have
been returned unanimously by the EssternCounties board to sit
again, by the self.ssme gentlemen who before sent me there.
That is • sufficient jutifiration of my conduct, and I only
repeat, in justice to the bon. member for Sunderland, that
on the occasion of his going to Norfolk to investigate the
concerns of this line in 1848, he said to me, in
great agony of spirit, Bagshaw, I have been grossly
deceived in these matters." So much I am bound to
say in vindication of the hon. gentleman opposite ; and
at the same time there are some things about me in the
committee which I shall leave untouched. I am con-
vinced that the gentlemen with whom I was associated have,
to the best of their ability, done their ditty under the pecu-
liar circumstances in which they found themselves placed.
The petitions were then brought up and laid on the table.
COPYHOLD BILL.
Mr. HEATHCOTE wished to learn from the hon. mem.
brr for Cockermouth, whether it was his intention to pro-
ceed with the Copyhold Bill on Wednesday nest (the Derby
day).
Mr. AGLIONBY said it certainly was his intention to
bring on the bill on Wednesday next, if possible. He did
not know whether there would be a house, but should do
everything in his power to make one.
BRITISH SUBJECTS ABROAD.
Mr. ANSTEY had intended to ask the noble lord, the
Secretary for Foreign Affairs, a question, but not seeing
that noble lord fa his place, would put it to the noble lord
at the head of the government. It was, whether he would
lay on the table of the h:tiss the copy of a letter of the 22nd
November, 1848, addressed by under secretary Lord Eddie-
bury to Mrs. Castellari, stating that an Englishwoman by
her marriage with a foreigner adopts the nationality of her
husband, and even after widowhood loses all claim by right
to the assistance of her Majesty's Consul in the place where
her husband died, in recovering or ascertaining the state of
his property there:—And whether he would alio lay on the
table the thstrectiou which determine the conduct of her
Majesty's consuls in such mean
Lord J. RUSSELL ri quested the hon. and learned mem-
ber to repeat his question when the noble lord, the Secretary
for Foreign Affairs, was present.
NEW ZEALAND.
Mr. AGLIONBY having read, in a low tone, an extract
from a New Zealand paper, relative to convict immigration,
and announcing the meeting of a legislative council, asked
the Under Secretary for the Colonies whether any
circular or other despatch had been addressed to, or any de-
spatch received from the governor of New Zealand, on the
subject of convictimmigration, other than those already
presented to the house ; and, also, whether any information
hal been Teethed on the subject of a legislative council being
held at Wellington, for the southern province.
tch had been received
Yr. HAWES said that no despot
from the governor of New Zealand, relative to the esta-
blishment of a legislative council, although he had, through
private sources, received sufficient confirmation of the fact.
wise regard to circulars or despatches, he found that one
had bears received in 1843, and others relative to Parker's
voyage. Thera was also one ef remit date from the go-
vernment engineer, asking for convict labour for the go-
vernment works. There would be no objection to lay all en
the table.
AFFAIRS OF CANADA.
Mr. GLADSTONE said that among the papers whir:hank
on the previous day, been given to the house, relative le
Canadian affairs, there were two, numbered 18 and 26, sae
being an act of the Canadian legislature relative to rebellion
losses, and the other a communication to the executive em
the same subject, both of which, it appeared, had been sent
home without any covering, letter, or despatch. He wished
to know whether each was the fact, and also whether any
farther information relative to former proceedings respecting
these rebellion losses would be produced.
Mr. HAWES mid *at all the documents in the posses-
aim of the Oeteekbalhas bad bees laid before parliament.
Is einem to Mr. AAIUN the hon. member further said that
he /Mew Whig of soy pirate letters having beta received.
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.
Mr. BRIGHT wished to know from the hon. Under
deeretary for the Colonies whether there was ally difference
is the laws inflicting capital punishment between the
metber-eountry and the colonies ? He bad seen by the
Sydney that a criminal named M'Kee hid been
mega rape, an offence which wag of eapitally
penithed England.
capital in
• HAWES said that the question had already been
enemeried. The offence remained New South
Woks sad Van Diemen's
bad been remitted here. land, although the capital punish-
LAND IMPROVEMENT AND DRAINAGE
(IRELAND) BILL.
This bill was read a third time and pared.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
Os the order of the day for the second reading of this bill
WWI lend,
M. GROGAN rose to address the house; but the bon el
anavanstion rendered his observations almost inaudible. We
saleaSsed him to express hit fist that the bill, unless ma*