The Express.
London, England, 1853-06-21 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAT, Iva 20.

Th. SrEAren took tile chair at 5 atianWs to 4 o'clock.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Lords amendment& in the following bills were
agreed to :—Belfast andila'lymenajßailway ; Lough Foyle
sad Lough /twiny Drainage• and Reclamation; Weston-
saper-Mare Waterworks; and Wigsa Waterworks and
Palk.; Bills.

Ti, following hills were read a third time : —Burt rd,
lLeaehil ale, and Swindon Roils ; East Lancashire
(No. 1), Clifton to Salford • Electric Telegraph Crimp's)
Furness Hallway; Urania and Foynes Railway ; London
and North Western Railway (Crewe to Shrewsbury) ;
Montgomeryshire Railway; Newry and Enniskillen Rail-
way ; Bills.
The following bills were considered and ordered to lie
upon the table :—Carlisle Canal and Port Carlisle Railway ;
East Lancashire Railway (No. 2), Southport, Ike.; Forth
and Clyde Junction Railway ; Leamington, Warwick, and
Stratford-upon-Avon Railway; Leeds Northern Railway;
Newport, Aberg y, end Hereford Railway (Han-
ford, Be.); New Roes (Free) Bridge ; Poulnaaherry luelo.
mire; Worcester and linefeed Railway ; Bills.
The South Wale. Mineral Railway Bill was read a third
time.

Ths Spitslfidds to Sboreditch Improvement Bill was
teed a second tints.

HACKNEY CARRIAGES BILL.
The Lords' amendments to this bill were agreed to.
THE PROPOSED DUTY ON LICENSF.S.

Mr. HUNS asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer
whether her Majesty's government have reconsidered the
resolutions fur imposing increased duties on certain trade
licenses, and, dm, when they will be prepared to lay the
am-nded resolutions on the table of the house ?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
nicht be for the convenience of the house, perhaps, that in
answering the question he should advert to the state of
several of the financial measures which had been mentioned
in the house, and that he should state the course they pro-
posed to take with reference to them. In the first place,
as respected the licenses, upon au examination of the cir-
cumstances attending the probable alteration of the scale, it
was soon obvious that very great inconvenience and what
'sight be called oppression on particular parties would be
the result of the scale he had proposed, and, therefore, he
made it his business to consider how far the scale should
be revised so as to obviate these objections. But the effect
of that was materially to reduce the proceeds of any such
scale, and to raise the question whether, supposing they
were In a condition to spars the money, it would be desir-
able to let the matter stand over till they considered the
great question repenting the licensing system, namely, pub-
licans' licenses and licenses of that class. And the way in
which it stood now was this. It was impossiblo for him,
till he knew the decision of the house on several questions
which wore pending, and which would bear on the state of
the exchequer, to give any absolute pledge with regard to
these licenses, and therefore the government had not at
present come to any absolute conclusion upon them, but
provided no further inroad was made upon their funds, it
might be in their power to waive any further proposal with
regard to licenses, and in that cue no such proposal would
be made. lie hoped his answer was clear. Be did not
wish to bind the government absolutely; it would depend
on the other measures which might be agreed to by the
house which might affect their means. With regard
to the question of the soap duty, a bill was pre-
pared, and he proposed to take • stage on that measure
to-night. The next question was the question of
the stamp duties. With regard to the stamp duties,
there wero two of the items—three indeed—in reference to
which notices had been given. The hon. member for Pon-
tefract had given a notice respecting the penny receipt
stamp, the noble member for Middlesex had given a notice
respecting the attorneys' certificate duty, and the right hon.
member for Manchester had given a notice respecting the
advertisement duty. Now, as regarded these stamp duties,
he wished to remind the house, subject to the correction
of the Speaker, that they were not required to lay the reso-
lutions on the table of the hone, ; but they were simply
printed for the information of hon. members. It was
thought that considerable confusion would be caused unless
he put in the form of a resolution the whole of the proposals
he bad to make. It would be extremely convenient to the
Menmonity that they should go forward with the stamp re-
solutions, especially' with the penny receipt stamp. Now,
that was not one of the measures in which they could pro-
ceed immediately on getting a vote of the House of
Common's, because it would be necessary to protect the
stamp against forgery, and they could not take any mea-
sure for that purpose except on the strength of an act of
parliament. Wh .t he proposed to do was this. He canal. ,
dered that by printing the resolutions he had pledged him-
eel( to any gentleman who wax desirous of doing so, to have
a discussion, and therefore if that was insisted on he would ,I
not insert in any stamp bill any matter with regard to
which any such claim was made. Bat with regard to many
of them there was no question, and therefore he
proposed with respect to them to pass the resolutions
to-night, and he should then prop os to bring in
• bill, and it would be open to hon. members to take any
measure they thought fit, but in that manner he should his
able to pin time, while the liberty of the house for dis-
engages would not be interfered within any degree. The
resolutions relating to the assessed taxes had taken • longer
time than was expected, the acts relating to the subject
being exceedingly complicated ; but be held in his hand a
bill on the subject which he should be able to lay on the
table to-night. He was asked the other night for • list of
the articles on which the extra five per cent. customs duty
was chargeable. He held the list in his hand, and he would
now lay it on the table.

VIII SAVINGS BANKS BILL.
Mr. MALINS said many parties interested in this bill
wen ti anxious that it should be postponed for a
week.

TM CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
should he my happy to postpone it foe a fortnight.

JAMAICA.

Sir J. PAKINGTON asked whether government bad
received any nasal emnamnimeloa floss the Governor of
Jamaica respectiag the emote* el the Assembly in that
Wand, whether it was Wended to popes any change in
the constitution of the island, and agonially with referenee
In the financial powers now en by the House of As-
sembly, and whether government bad any objection to lay
ea the table of the house such papers as might have been
received in relation to these transactions.
Lord J. RUSSELL said despatches had beta received
from the Governor of Jamaica with relation to the political
and fiGeneial crisis which had occurred in that island.
With regard to the mend question he had to state that
than despatches wen under the consideration of govern-
ment, and a plan had been proposed, which It was hoped
might put as east to the esalvarmements of the island of
Jamaica. If that plan was adopted it would, no doubt,
affect the finaacial powers of the Hones of Assembly. His
noble (timid the Secretary for the Colonies would, in •
week eit ten days, state to the other house of parliament,
aad he (Lord J. Russell) would probably state in that
house, the outline of the plan proposed by government.
Till that plan was before the house he did not propose to
lay the papers on the table.
GREECE AND TURKEY.

la sawn
Lard J. 11IIIMIILL said that the Turkish government
haviag intimated their intention is send troops to occupy
'snails villages as the Greek frontier, which they said be-
longed to than, the Greek government disputed their claim
and seat a face, to prevent them from doing so. The rep-
resentatives of the British government, in conjunction
with these of the ether governments at Constantinople,
reessuseaded that sothiag should be done until the sub-
ject bad been eseiddered. The queetiest was afterward,
eensidered by the representatives of Great Briton, Prance,
sad Russia, and an opinion was come to—unanimously he
believed—that Uwe villages, according to the settlement of
the boundary in 1832, below/eel to Turkey. That opinion
had been intimated to Greece, but no information had been
received since.

SUCCESSION DUTIES BILL.

Th. house then went again into cem---Mid.si on this bill.
Clore 18 wee sired to.
On clause it, " Duties to be paid on the successor be-
-0011111114 entitled in possession ; but in cave of outstanding
interests, on the determination thereof,"
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER proposed
the following proviso:—" Provided that no duty shall be
payable upon the determination of any leue purporting at
the date thereof to he at rack rent in respect to any is.
crease accruing to the successioa on such determination."
A long conversation ensued, aster which,
The proviso was agreed to.
On the question that deur 19 do stand part of the bill,
Mr. HENLEY celled attention to an shernative in the
clause which gays the tax collectors the option of either re
forcing the tax the mement the succession took place, or all
until the rents and peels were received.
The CHANCELLOS of the EXCHEQUER said there
was • provision fa a eabinguat clause which would prevent
the duty bsig othesoll immediately. Or, if that were net
so, words s• *at east would be introduced.
The clause
se 20, that the interest of the
waslto= t
On clause
succorer to real that
considered an annuity,
Sir F. KELL this bill, if carried out in its
present form, weld praises inequalities end injustice ea
great as any thatasielod under the Iroise-tax Bill. He
would put the blikswispi NM Suppose two children of four
year of age each were Nft estates of 1,0001. a year. Their
interest would be equal to 20 years' purchase, or 20,0004.
Ile would 'upper those two children to be in that degrse
of relationship to their predecessors, that world rake them
liable to the tax of 5 per cent., that was to my 1,0001.,
which was to be paid, as the canoe wee now framed, in five
years, at the rats of 2001. • year. Now, one of these chil-
dren might die at the end of the five years, when the estate
would jaw away from him sod perhaps from his family ;
the other child might live for 60 or 55 years after that
periou ; so that the person who enjoyed the estate for this
lengthened period would only pay the same amount of duty
that was paid by the other in five years Wu this justice?
Was it not rather strikingly usjust and unequal?
(Hear, hear) Now he proposed to remedy this
injustice and inequality in • very simple manner,
namely, by enacting that the 1,0001. duty should be levied,
not by instalments of 2001. for five vitro, but by an annual
payment of 604. • year as long as the individual should live;
that was to say, he would levy the duty in proportion to
the duration of the enjoyment of the estate by the indivi-
dual. He was aware that 1,0004., raised by 601. • year far
• man's life, wee not quite equivalent to 1,0001. raised in
five years st 2004. • year, and that it might be necessary.
On that account, to make a small addition to the amount of
the tax. According to his proposal, then, if the person lived
but two years, he would only pay 1004. ; but if he lived 80
years, he would have to pay 501. • year for that period.

He would not propose any alteration in the clause till he
heard what answer the government gave.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said be woe
not eertain whether the hon. and learned gentleman want
to apply his remarks to ail descriptions of property or to real
property only. (Hear, hear.)
Sir F. KELLY said that he c maned his suggestion to
that which was the subject of the clause, but be would have
no objection to apply the same principle to personal property
if the circumstances were strictly analogous.
Toe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he did
not think the hon. sad learned gentleman had well con-
s.dered the nature or the consequesces of his own suggestion.
The. bon. gectlemtut proposed to substitute an annual
payment fur that proposed is the bill, as a means of re-
medying the injustice and inequality which he said existed.
lint how would that apply is the ease of • paean coming
into possession of unsettled property, where the party bad
to pay ten per cent. legacy duty and 2} per cent. probate
' duty ? (Hear, hear.) Ihe effect of such a change would
be to break up the legacy and probate duties. (Hear,
hear.) He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) saw ne
political or social evil or injustice in the present mode
of raising the tax.
After some further discussion on the same point, and '
upon some other verbal and unimportant amendments, in
the course of thew discussions Mr. W. Wiccutue giving
notice that, on the bringing up ot the report he would move
an amendment, the object of which was to preclude the
adoption of the principle whereby the tax might be paid
upon certain properties by _instalments, the clause was
agreed to.
Upon clause 21,
. _ _

Ardiscos.ion anise on a suggestion of Mr. DRIIIIMOND,
that the definition of "ornamental timber" of a mansion-
house in claire 20 was too vague.
Sir J. TROLLOPS said that unless some clearer defini-
tion was given be mast move as amendment for that pur-
pose.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was
proposed that the timber which should be excepted was to
be valued with the mansion to which it was attacked ; and
he proposed to add to the clause the words " for the pur-
poses of this act."
Mr. HENLEY inquired what was the meaning of the
words "necessary outgoings." They were not very de-
finite.

The SOLICITOR•GENERAL.—These words were well
understood, and bad a definite meaning in all courts of law
and equity. The timber to be excepted wen that which
answered the description of ornamental timber, and was
connected with a mansion house, was not severed in owner-
ship from the mansion house, and was not in the same suc-
cession ; the valuation only applied to such timber as the
tenant for life might lawfully cut.
Sir J. TROLLOPE moved the omission of all the
words after " necessary outgoings"—for the purpose of
testing the opinion of the committee on the subject of in-
cluding timber in the taxation under the bill.
After some conversation, the committee divided on the
amendment :

For the amendment 153
Against
The announcement of the numbers was received with
uproarious cheers by the country gentlemen.
On our return to the gallery we found
Lord J. RUSSELL urging Sir J. Trollops to move
now such a resolution as would carry out the intention im-
plied in the amendment which had just been carried.
(Loud cries of " Move, move.")
Sir J. TROLLOPE then moved "that the following
proviso be added to the clause—provided always that the
value of any timber growing or standing on such land shall
not be included in such estimate." (Loud cheers.)
Bir J. SHELLEY here said that he would move an
amendment (which he stated) on the proviso, but being in-
formed that he was out of order, he withdrew it.
Mr. MULLINOS thought that they could not go into
the question tonight ; he therefore moved that the chairman
report pregress. (Loud cries of " Hear, hem," from the
opposition.)
After some further remarks the committee divided—

For rPriiiir Worm ll9

Against it - 167-38
Lord 1. RUSSELL was then understood to urge the
right hon. gentleman to put the words which he had pro-
posed, and allow the committee to divide on the motion.
Mr. FREWEN —lt was then ten minutes to 1 o'clock,
and it was understood that the government meant to pro.
eeed with some of the other orders on the paper, and ought
they to go on with this question?
The CHAIRMAN put the proviso.
Lord MARCH hoped the noble lord would not refuse to
allow the chairman to report progress.

Mr. LABOUCHERE suggested that Sir J. Trollop.
should withdraw his proviso for the present, and if it was
placed on the books it would enable the government to take
it into consideration.
Sir J. TROLLOPE thought the course proposed by the
right hon. gentleman (Mr. Laboucher.) was so clear and so
proper that he would withdraw his =Alan ; but he wished
it to be understood that he only moved the proviso bemuse
it was thought n to make the clause clear.
On the motion that the motion be withdrawn,
Mr. COBDEN (who spoke amidst cries of "oh," and in-
terruption from the opposition) said the proposition of the
right bow. gentleman the member for Taunton to withdraw
the proviso, is intended to leave it open to the government
to make an alteration in the clause. Nothing has been said
u yet for those who are not owners of timber, and I wish to
say a few words on their behalf. I have listened to this
debate, and I cannot understand the mysterious proems
or reasoning by which it is sought to remove
' timber out of the category of all other taxes on succession.
(Hear, hear.) I caution the right hon. geatleman not to
attempt to conciliate his opponents by any compromise of
this measure, and I think the course taken by the gentle- ,
men opposite must have satisfied him that he has nothing '
to gain by that policy. I say if copse-wood and timber are
to be taxed, I do not see why ornamental timber should
I not be taxed also. If it is kept up for the purpose of
luxury and enjoyment, there can be no difference between
it and other article. of luxury. Does not the timber in a
park add to the dignity of is owner as much as a noble
ma lion ? If you advocate this exemption on ornamental
timber, why should it not be extended to your
pictures ? and I cannot see any difference in that
respect between it and the plateaux on your dia-
log-tables. I say, the rule is that anything which is
brought into the Encumbered Estates Court that would gall
for money, is liable to the tax under this bill. Itmaybe said
that ornameatal timber is not often cut is, eels, but that is
because it is the subject of enjoyment as a luxury rather
than as the subject of sale. It argues a peat reserve of
wealth, if you are able to keep such as artists he onjog-e
meet alone. Having agreed that everything obi ion
subject to the tax, is it desirable to stake • simian limber ?
Fewer of your countrymen possess this ordain of limber
than any other that is subject to the tax, and yea aro iso-
lating yourselves more by claiming this exemption than if
you had asked for exemption for your plate or
year diamonds. Having agreed to everything, is
it worth your while to make a stand on this
article of ornamental timber. You say it is entailed pro-
petty, but you forget that the right hon. gentleman the
Chancellor of the Exchequer has dealt very lightly with
entailed property, by allowing 41 years for payed: for it.
The thirst of this act is to sustain the feudal principle, and
in ao other country la the world is that so, but the tendency
is to force the sale of landed property, and compel its sub.
division ; therefore, when had that the spirit of the bill
is favourable to establisbM property, it is not wise to raise
a question on this Wearable article of timber. (Rear.)
I will only repeat to the right hon. gentleman in the
name of those who have no timber, my advice
that be should take his stand oa the bill as
it is, and he may depend upon it that if
be wishes to have his supporters here and to fight his
battle, to be here late at night and early in the morning
to meet the tactics of gentlemen opposite, he must adhere
to the priaciple of the bill, and I have no doubt that we
shall (tarry him triumphantly through with it. (Rear.)

Mr. AOLlONBY—Regretted they should have been kept
there discussing this question for eight hours, and the bon.
gentleman rhou'd not have said one word upon the subject
till one o'clock in the morning. The hon. gentleman argu-
ments were against the recommendation be made to the
Chancellor of the Exchequer. But if he wished to revive
• question which he (Mr. Aglioriby) hoped had been set at
rest, let him g.vo notice " that all timber be taxed," end
bring it forward at • proper timo. (Hear.)

. - .
Lord J. RUSSELL—If be understood aright, the propo-
sition of the other side now was, that the committee would
be ready to entertain and consider any proposition his right
hon. friend the Chancellor of the Emthequer might bring
forward, to carry out the object of the latter part of the
clause, that objeet,—vis., the imposing the tax on timber
being conceded. (No, no.) It that was not conceded
he must call for a decision
Bir J. PAKINGTON said the committee could not give
any opinion until the alternative to be proposed was before
them. (Cheers.)
After a few words from Col. Sturtioar,
Mr. SPOONER moved that the committee report pro-
gram, to which Lord J. Russell consented, and the house
resumed.

Lord J. RUSSELL Intimated thlt for the convenience of
the Speaker the house would not ►it ti❑ five o'clock to-
morrow (thi. day.) ll* also stated that the India Bill
would be taktn on Thursday.

NOTICE OF MOTION.

Mr. OttrunaLirarkthe noble lnrd the Secretary of
State fur the Home Department whether the recent opening
of the passage on the north side of St. Pattie Cathedral did
not establA the necessity of adopting it permanently when
Cannon-street be accomplished, u a means of diminishing
the pressure of traffic from Ludgate-bill going eastward.

STAMP DUTIES. - -
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the
resolutions on stamp duties he had referred to at en earlier
period of the evening.
The resolutions were put and agreed to.
CUSTOMS DUTIES UN SPIRITS BILL.

This bill passed through committee.
UNIVERSITIES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
On the order of the day fur the second reading of this
bill below nail,

Lord J. Rt. MELT. stated that it wu intended to take
this hid on Friday neat, at 12 o'clock.
Colonel BLAIR protested egainst bringing forward mea-
sures requiring discussion at morning sittings, at a period
of the session when the majority of hon. members were
engaged oetommitteu, and could not attend in the house
in the daytime.