The Express.
London, England, 1847-04-16 00:00:00

AGGREGATE MEETING.

A public meeting of the opponents of the prawn-
:sta. till I of education set forth in the minute. of conocil,
tea yesterday evening at Exeter Hall. It wee
try the conference which had been sitting for two or
three days previously in Crosby Hall. The time appointed
fur commencing the proceedings was six o'clock, at which
hoar the ball was far from being filled, but soon afterwards
it beams densely crowded. Mr. Bright, M.P., occupied
the chair. The platform was filled in front by leading oppo-
nents of the scheme, belonging chiefly to the independent
denominiation. In opening the proceedings,
The CHAIRMAN said, he did not recollect ever haying
Mod before an audience of his fellow-countrymen under feeL
ings of greater responsibility than he experienced at that
moment, sad nothing but a conviction of the great import-
saes of the question could have induced him to place himself
in such a position. (Hear, hear.) He would take it for
granted that those whom he addressed would not by any
portion of the public press, or by any of their opponents, be
pronounced hostile to the education of the people. (Hear,
hear.) There was no fact more notorious than that it was
to the nonconformist body pre-eminently that the remark-
able progress in educational effort, made within the hut 30
or 40 years, was te be traced. It was not possible,
he believed, for • priesthood like that established in this
country to be very anxious that the great mass of the people
should be educated.- It was possible, however, that
when it was perceived that other parties were in
the field, and that by the extension of education the great
mass of the people were being gradually but rapidly drawn
from subservience to, and dependence upon, the priesthood,
that priesthood should step in, and, by the use of similar
weapons, endeavour to maintain and perpetuate its own
power. (Cheers) There was something in the very
essence and spirit of dissent which involved universal
education. If they and their forefathers had not thought
deeply on such subjects, there would now be • dull and dead
uniformity in religious matters throughout the kiugdom.
The very fact that so much thought had been bestowed on
these matters, proved that the cultivation and strengthening
of the mind had not been overlooked by nonconformists.
(Hear.) Now, dissenter hell that it was not a just or
Christian course to tax a whole people for the purpose of
teaching the tenets of a sect. Upon that point nonconform-
ists were completely united, and they considered this ques•
tion of education in connexion with it. If there were
nothing else to complain of in the scheme, it was sufficient to
destroy every particle of value in the eyes of nonconformists ,
that it was intended to establish throughout this king-
dom the teaching of particular forms and particular
creeds in religion. (A voice "No, no.") The meet-
iag would judge whether the gentlemen who in-
terrupted him had come to • correct conclusion.
He (the Chairman) maintained that the measure
wee intended to establish and to make absolute the teaching
of certain forms of religion or of religious belief in thousands
of schools throughout this kingdom to which the minutes
applied. He found it stated in the minutes, under the head
No. 6: " In schools connected with the Church of England,
the children will be required to repeat the catechism,
and to show that they understand its meaning, and ere
acquainted with the outline of scripture history, and
the parochial clergyman will assist in this part of the exami-
nation." (Laughter.) He admitted that the system did
not force every child to learn the catechism, but it was an tab-
solute condition that no one should benefit by the
public funds without proof of adherence to the
practice of some form of religion in the school. It was no
answer to tell him that the government allowed his parties-
lar opinions, or peculiarities, robe taught in a school belong-
ing to his own sect. If that answer were a good one in this
case, it would be equally an answer to nonconformists, who
objected to the existence of an established church, to say
that out of the public funds there should in future be paid
to every independent, baptist, or any other minister, a por-
tion of his annual salary, and that he, too, should De-
mme dependent on the state. (Cheers.) So fir as
it went, there was in the scheme something like an appear-
gime of political justice and impartiality : but they did not
consider the measure merely in its political bearing, but
with reference also to the great question of religious teach-
ing under the control, guidance, and pay of the
date. He felt persuaded that if the dissenters had
permitted these minutes to pus without entering a most
solemn protest against them, they could not front that time
have opened their lips to condemn the principle of • state
church. (Hear, hear.) For many years the state clergy
bad been found ranged' on the one side, and the rut
majority of the people, the dissenting ninieters on the
other ; and the former had lately claimed for themselves
higher privileges and greater powers than their grandfathers
in the church would have dared to claim. (Hear, bear.)
Yet it was at such • time as the present that the government
stepped in to propose that these men should be the examiners
dike children in religious matters, and should obtain the
power of granting or withholding a certificate by which the
door to future advancement would he opened or shut. If
anything could give the clergy power and influence, and
bring the people into a subject and depressed condition It
was a system hie that which it was proposed to introdnee.
(Clears.) A meeting was held on the previous
erendag at Freemasons Hall. Amongst those who
true present was the Bishop of Norwich. The bishop
moldered the government measure a most im-
partial one, and maintained that the church was making •
marvellous concession. It was delightful, at least, to find
that it was now felt that the dimmers mut be
treated with on equal terms. Albinos was also made to
the education in the United States. Why, in the United
Mates the township, or parishes formed the educational dis-
tricts • the government had nothing to de with the
mane., and there were limitations providing that err-
tein gush end eateshins should not be taught. There
ems se Mate aura to interfere in the matter ; sad
if the Aim of Norwich would consent, in matters of
religion awl education, to place the people of this country in
the lame position as those of the United States, be
riled roldeebt that this question might be settled without
any great difficulty. He might, indeed, speak of the
taste of the right reverend prelate, in characterising
the members of the Established Churches the '‘ more re-
spectable Clan," and further, in alluding to certain things
which had been said by somebody from Leerier" (Laughter.)
He had always fancied that the bishop was a sensible
man and • gentleman—(hear)--and there we, certainly
nothing in the course which Mr. Baines had punned on that
question which did ant entitle him to the admiration even of
thou who might differ from him. It wee too much ter •
good, easy old gentleman, like the Bishop of Norwich. who
was provided for se sumptuously by the stata—(latighter)—
to speak thug of oae who had done so much for the cause of
education. He was sorry to have heard the renews which
prevailed as to the government negotiation, with the Wes-
leyan body, with the view of buying off a portion of the op-
ponents of the scheme. (Hear.) If the premium%
was determined to ally itself with the state church, it woad
wen become a matter for cor.aideration whether there could
not be some organisation throughout the kingdom,
which, if it did not advance noncaeformint pem-
tip's*, would at least make it unsafe for any go-
vernment to commit further agreement upon them.
(Cheers). They ought to regard neither the taunts of the
press nor the sneers of politicians, who could ant compre-
hend their principles, but firmly and consiatently to main-
tain the principles which they had so long held, and to which
they adhered, solely because they believed them to be tree.
(Cheers,)
Mr. HAM read • letter from Mr. Harrill, M.P., apolo-
gmog for he inability to accept an invitation to attend the
meeting en &cement of the noomoity for his presence is the
Hume of Oamainea.
Mr. Jaws Orono, moved the following resolution
Mt Ibis means, hear imesidamd the minutes of the committee
et
asemffien eimelen of Ursa and Demeter, Ible, and ether
ailed ENlNlksati ismasolei therewith, is of opinion that the theme
' thing& dreetepel t sea which whi e affording no reasosahis seem
rler bran bNser Mareetlen of the people, mum be canted into
OM
MON* flotere Witham religious diesominatious which dissent
Irina lentlibet ffinsidi, au view series detriment to the
beaten and bliellnaines the seummity.
Ha said it was Impossible to cant' out the scheme without
stall liberty. la es Interview which had been
LthddiVmassing, the President of the Council said their
sagsamets west to show that the money already granted was
net applied eta awned principles. He( Mr. S.) believed that the
acceptance of public money by dissenters was one of the
greatest mistakes they had ever made; but he understood
that 5,0001. was being raised to enable the British and
Foreign School Society to ?Quern what it had received.
(Cheers.) The acceptance of government aid would com-
pletely paralyse the voluntary principle, and prevent all
voluntary effort in future. The sect to which he belonged

I had always adhered firmly to voluntaryist' • he believed
that the largest bribe would not induce the Society of
Friends to take a single sixpence of government money for
' the purposes of education. He urged the meeting to corn-
' bine the advocacy of civil liberty with that of religions
liberty, in order that they might secure the co-operation of
the working classes.
The Rev. Dr. HAMILTON, of Leeds, in seconding the reso-
lution, said he was "somebody from Leeds "—(laughter)
—and he was not ashamed of the cause which he appeared
there to advocate. Education was a sacred thing, not •
thing for the interference either of monarch or constable.
The principle of cohesion in the cane of numbers who sup-
ported the scheme was nothing else but the desire of gain.
An insatiate appetite gnawed within these, and they
looked forward to the gratification of their cravings
from the public purse. He could not otherwise
account for the anion of Roman Catholic, Puseyite,
evangelical clergyman, and chartist, in the meet-
ing at Leeds. He denied that the government had
any right to educate the people; the government was not
the father of the people, but the people the father of the
government. (Laughter.) Beside., if it were the duty of
the government to educate the nation, why had it been so
dilatory? Why had it waited 4) long before opening its
establishment for education? If the scheme paged. all edu-
cation would be reduced to a dead level. Without
intending any imputation on the house of Rus-
sell, he might say that it would be a Bedford
fiat. (Laughter.) In the laaguage of the dramatist. the
effect would be to "slap a padlock on the mind." (Hear,
hear.) Once established, the system would be mernized by
the pensions of the schoolmasters; for they all knew that it
was impossible to get rid of pensions. 'Mr. Macaulay, who
sometimes spoke of the bray of Exeter Hall, said that no man
of sane mind could contend fora distinction in principle be-
tween the application of 10,0001. and 30,0001. That formed
au additional reason for opposing the scheme. Ever since
the days of Walpole there had been an attempt to buy up all
public men by °aces of the state ; and it behoved them to
take care lees a sissilar attempt should now be successful in
the minor multitudes of the people. (Hear, bear.)
The resolution was then put from the chair and tarried,
the chairman declaring that about a dozen hands were held
up against it.
The Rev. Dr. MAR4OII proposed the following resolution :
That the virtual entraining of legislative pas er, in a manes of each
vast importance as t education of the pinple, to 4 committee of the
privy council appointed by Ow crown, is denim., to puble liberty,
and that theellating of no great a ahead. by a mere money vote of
the House rather than by the wed method of a bill in
parliament, is a violation of the spirit and ',nein of the Britads oon-
atitstion.

lilr. E. MIALL seconded the resolution, and took *mei=
to express his surprise that the prom had not raised its voice
against this measure. The Daily Nemo and the Times
were deserving every condemnation. They had deserted
the people. This measure was a suspension of the
Catholic Relief Aet, of which the whirs boasted, and
which the dinsonters had assisted the whites to carry. To
the noncoofermints it was a destructive measure ; and, if the
sings were determined to carry it, they must make up their
minds to retire to their Torres Vedras, until they could eon*
forth with irresistible might and sweep away not merely
these minutes of council, but that which was the root
of all their evils—the established Church of England.
(Loud cheering.) Let them have civil despotism in
its wont and most offensive forms—(even then their minds
would be free)—but let them never allow our country and
people to become a crouching, whining, slavish, and priest-
ridden nation ! (Renewed cheering.)
The resolution was carried with some dissentient,.

Mr. E. BAINES, jun., moved the next resolution. Ile
commenced by speaking of himself, and denying that Oil
agitation wan a' Baines " agitation. Nevertheless, he was
proud at having used every energy of body and mind, and
voice, and pen, to rouse hie fellow countrymen upon this
subject. He had been designated a " far going " and extra-
vagant person. The public press, however, and the liberal
member, of parliament who thus atigmatised him, were as
little acquainted with him as with the question they were
discussing. The measure they were met to discuss was of
continental origin, having for da object to bring the people
within the church system and the state pay. Were they pre-
pared to say that the task of moulding the minds of the
people should be vested in any set of officials in this country?
The government was perfectly unqualified for the task. They
were almost always behind the people. Their system must
either be too rigid or too lax. They must either teach all
religions or no religion. They would interfere with the duty
of parents, and if they interfered with men's duties the
robbed them of their virtues. (Cheers.) But it was said
the people did not educate themselves—that immense edu-
cational deficienees exited. lie denied that they existed to
the extent sapposed. We had upwards of two millions of
children now in ourday-schools—a proportion of one in eight
of our entire population. The quality of our education woe
also greatly improving. We had now 211 normal schools
with accommodation for eleven hundred pupils. It
that

was a gross mistake, therefore, to suppose . there
was any great need of educational provision. But
even if an extension of education were needed, was
this the way to extend it ? He objected to the government
measure that it would give an amount of influence to the go-
vernment unprecedented in the annals of the nation. It
would place 88000 persons at least in the government pay.
It would also give a great extension of power to the clergy
of the land. It would be a new state endowment of religion
—(" No," and cheers)—adding two millions sterling to the
six millions which the church already possessed. It would
bo a flagrant injustice to dissenters. Their schoolmasters
and scholars would he lured away from them. The measure
would also debase the character of the schoolmasters, and the
character of their instructions. Every farthing of govern-
ment money the schoolmasters received would be coined into
links of a chain that would bind them irrevocably. He ob-
jected, too, that this measure would be a gross injustice to
the poor. When schools were conducted on voluntary prin-
ciples, they were supported by the rich ; but if they were to
be suppsrted by the government, on whom would the tax
fall but on the poor ? In conclusion, be warned the govern-
ment that if they pressed these measures they would not
only ruin themselves but their party, and moved a resolu-
tion setting forth, that
tiehitss, in the judgment of the meeting, it formed no part of Us
duty of the government to interfere with Inc education of the people,
they recognised the importance of promoting education by voluntary
and independent MAMA, and rejoiced at the progress which had bees
made in extending it during recent years.
The Rev. Mr. Ilietoy seconded the resolution. Before it
was put, a gentlemen at the end of the room insisted on
speaking, and having obtained a place on the platform, gave
the name of
_

Mr. W. BROOKS. He said that this question was of too
muck importance to be pared over without both aides being
heard, particularly when the side which was represented
stated its case partially and unfairly. Mr. Baines 's speech
had been rather an appeal to their passions and fears than an
appal to their judgment and their reason. Let him remind
them of the degraded position in which the schoolmaster now
stood. Our schools were empty because of the want of
proper instruction. Criminals abounded, and prisons in-
creased. Surely the government, which had tried penal
settlements and failed, were amply justified in now tryiag
the education of the poor. Being born and bred a din-
, mentor, and educated in a dissenting Sunday school,
he believed the dissenters had no ground to fear op-
positien from the church. The government only came in to
I supply a deficiency, and it was their right and their duty to
do so. It had keen said that dissenters schools were to be
superintended by church inspectors. He held in his hands
the minutes of the privy council, and they expressly declared
that dissenters should not be forced is accept inspectors no-
r less they were approved by the British and Foreign Schools
Committee. The speaker, who addressed the meeting with
considerable power and determination, concluded by moving
an amendment:
That, r crime and immorality were increasing in this country, an
extension of education was highly desirable.
The resolution, having been seconded by a gentleman be-
low the platform, was put from the chair by way of amend-
ment. It found several supporters, but the original resole-
tion was declared to be carried.
A vote of thanks to the chairman was the, paned amid
acclametions, and tke party broke up.
For the most part the holiness of the evening was con-
ducted in an orderly manner; but there were some interrup-
tions during theearlier speeches of Mr. Baines, who spoke far
a mortal hour and a half, severely taxing the patience of his
audience, who at last gave vent to their dissatisfaction in
cries of " Time," " Cut it short," and other indications of
weariness and impatience. Mr. Brooks, who mowed the
amendment, was unfavourably received by a large ponies
of the meeting, and a knot of 'reverend gentlemen and others
on the platform appeared especially desirous to prevent his
being heard. His own resolution, however, sad the justices
el a large portion ol those assembled in the hall, secured him
at last an attentive auditory.
DIPICIENCY or ACCOMMODATION trod "SPORTS'S.
—We cannot conclude this account without protesting
simian the character of the accommodation provided for the
reporters in this place. It combat of a small boa, only
capable of holding sin or seven parsons, whilst about twenty
sae usually represented here. The approach to it is
CP:ridark passage under the platform, through rhich those
whodeitin enatiteLarebycoarriligp:tlledthrtLghereeirbonuusills.-fersrey.
in,.guiLest
dotkr.
Nothing would be more ray than to extend the boa the en-
tire length of the platform, which would give the additional
aooonunodation required, and admit of an enemata from a
aide door. The trustees, who make an enormous sum an-
nually by this building, promised, we onderstand, anao
time since, to attend to representations which were made to
them upon this subject, end it is more especially became
they have omitted to do so, that this further complaint is
made.

THE JUDGMENT OF LEEDS ON THE GOVIEGSMF.NT
Scat i OP EDUCATION.—The nineteenth report of the
committee of the House of Commons enumerates four peti-
tions from Leeds in favour of the government scheme. TM
petition of the " megistrates, aldermen, and councillors" has
36 signatures attached to it ; that of the " clergy end mien.
ten of the Gospel" 31 ; that of " superintendents sad
teachers of Suede. schools" 361; that of the " inhabitants"
24,747. " Think of that Master banal
INQUESTS, YE-sTERDAT.—ALLEOED DEATH MOM
POUION. —By Mr. Carter, an sdiourned inquest on
the body of Sarah Fowler, at the Victory Tavern, Mer-
ton-road, Mitcham. On Good Friday evening the deceased
met a gentleman, by appointment, and they west together
to the White Hart, at Mitcham, where they partook of •
pint of mulled port. They remained there nearly two
boon, and as they were leaving, • woman, named Ellen
New, noticed that the deceased had been crying. Deceased
returned home about eleven o'clock, and went to bed with
her mother and sister Fanny. In the course of the night
she complained of a severe heed-ache, and towards mom's;
became worse ; she vomited, and soon after had fits. Mr.
W. Bainbridge, of Tooting, surgeon, was sent for, whit
suspected the present* of puison. He asceiteined that
deceased was pregnant. Mr. Bainbridgq. gnis
deceased to state if she had taken any possft 4040141--,
distinctly said '`no." She was soon after sesc4l:l4***,./\
A. VS:
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ii