The Express.
London, England, 1853-02-19 00:00:00

uf t'.e distinct demand that they shall
4,„„tat. ,I.outl cries of "No, n 0...)
31e. CObBEN—I thought I woa no* liable to misrepro-
wet.,,,,a. I said "to stop the rivalry with France." But
I refer to the terms ..1 my motion some few years ago. I
hoe not a word to alter in that.
Sir j. tiltAIIAM—Not having an opportunity at the
le 'ram of referring ro the word, of tlin. motion, I will take
the eJrrtetio.ll as the 1 ott, member his suggested ; and I will
tomato „a that hyoet:og, that though I am quite sure Iro
easel: vet not.: propueing such an tursugesneelt
so be twig, ate, yet, my opinion very decidedly is, whine'',
teight be the esti rt tie.* of the note, that the effort would
sot be attended with 6uccc.i. At all events, lam sure of
iv, that elms I refl*:.t mi the slight oceosions that have
rise to une ice% d Aatilitiea, and" the i fr..ets
* ' -

ins re`c •- •
ItS f A sudden unite. ak art hoe' uif we should be
hand sesrmA, I cannot persuade myself not to nicks
otry peroration which the state of preparation of foreign
wen thsi,, in my humble opinion, require. (Cheers.)
&vie: 41 I that, I will say that there is no member of
ten boar more desirous. by every effort, to secure
aesa%my .n the a•lministretion of public affairs than I ever
bit, bees nal *hall he. (Hear, hear) But I most say,
beiNg a fm.ni of peace, t titert-iniog the opinion I do that
it ,„ tesirede that armaments, necessarily expensive, should
ttst b. robed toss elan:me, and that they should be dis-
oat sued, if possible. I deeply regret the course which
it., rot hoe. gentleman opposite has pursued on this
„aims. (War, hear) It Ili his boast that he is the
kadirof the late, st party in this how... I waited with
~nee saee ty to see whether say gentleman on that side,
sesabee• of ;hat party. would sustain the position which the
vidta hon. eentlemaa took this evening. I waited in vain,
He ILO .4% occupied a high positiou ;ea the councils of his
ipetenga, and he knows the delicacy of the questions which
bt W oftibeol tP is eiremag. I son hound to believe tat
be has taken this caner in a spirit of peace ; but if that were
ehj it. I thick he ran great risk of ilefeatiug it. (Hear,
brat' I myself should nut have ri...en on this occasion if
the right hoe. gentlemen bad nut adverted at considerable
kagth, ar.J I emir in..' to •iay also—l say it with pain—with
aissaJeril,le itterneei—(hear, hear)—to words which he
states All from me at Carlisle. He rays it would be imper-
intent t pose that I could possibly be guilty
of ea inadvertence; that I spoke advisedly, and
sate meth deliberation. Now, the right bon. gen-
ikons k himself a great master of words; I should
Day also that he speaks only after much previous
theoght—l may remark, not without some preparation. (A
kegh.) Judges* from the commencement of the rigid
boa. geatlensaa's aildn.s it would have been I licult to
ancients his conclusion. I was astonished at the circuit
he took to approach so small an object. I wondered that he
should )nit such Leavy artillery up so long a hill for so
boned a purpose ; 1.4 he began by a reference to Agin-
coat sad he left off on the hustings at Carlisle. (Laughter.)
N•iw, la reference to the right hos. gentleman's remarks on
me, I may be permitted to observe that very cautions and
eery age speakers ere sometimes Steil? of great inadvert-
nee (Hear, hear) Tne present parlament remembers a
mat smarm weep a minister of the crown, the leader of
the Hoses of Come had the solemn de imposed

.luty
iths,whiek was no his than that of making aa oration
ea tbs memory of Wellington. I can conceive no greater
mesidea: it was certainly an occasion on which the ablest
would have spoken only after prenseditatiun. Our
=kelil sent their reprceeutstivcs from every part of Hu-
m., as a mark of respect for the memory of the departed
hero; and these representatives of our allies were assembled
to take part in the great ceremony as mourners around the
gran of Wellington. use right non. gentleman the leader
of the Huse of Commons on this occasion pronounced a
funeral oration; and if I am not much mistaken, our allies
bung then, in their representatives, among us, tlw right
honourable gentleman designated them as hiving been
scandalous deserters and discomfited allies in the contest
I. which they took part with us. (Hear, hear.) The ex-
premium so used by him could not possibly have been pre-
meditated, and yet that was a premeditated speech. (Hear,
km.) And what was ano.her characteristic speech ?
Perhaps it was u a countervailing compliment to one of our
allies that one of the passages of that speech consisted of a
withered bough plucked from the wreath of a French
pima whercw;th the right hon. gentleman sought to do-
cents the urn of the illustriou i Englishman. ("Hear,
bar," sad laughter.) The right hon. gentleman should
her these things in mind when he said that cautious
waken could not be guilty of as iusilvertenee
fa some thane* slip of the tongue. (Hear, hear.)
Lutists to his own inadvertencies on the occasion
I have referred to be might, I think, exercise some charity
towards those who, at a contested election, speaking from
the hustings, may have used, with all their caution, incor-
tect impressions. (Hear, hear.) But am I prepared
Wait that what I did say was incorrect in expression ?
The right bon. gentleman says that the press is his
"escutcheon ;" I might add that the leaden in the Mons-
* Braid ate his "supporters," and that his " Standard-
Irene" is an evening paper of a peculiar character.
(Laughter.) But do I admit that I said what the right
les gentleman attributes to me ? He asked a
lissitioa as to the speech he has also referred
to, made by my right hon. friend; hut he did net
ask me what were the words I used on the occasion is WNW
ties; and the consequence is that he has inadvertently
ascribed to me words which did not use. I never
I
the Emperor of France either a " despot " or •
"tyrant; much less did I ever call the people of
Frame " slaves ;" nor did I use any similar op-
probrious epithets. I shall tell the house eased
what I did say. I was addiessing • popular assembly—l
had declared myself friendly to the extension of the suf-
frage; and I also expressed my deep regret with
respect to the bribery which Dad disgraced the
last general election. I said to my audience,
that they ought to remember how great was the liberty
they happily enjoyed—on the whole, that I did not think.
that Many country in the world life and liberty were more
secure than they were here; and that, although I could
not support tininess' suffrage, although I doubted whether
sestet voting would be a remedy for the evils I had
described, I was still of opinion that every man wines
statics rendered him independent, so that he
vas sot likely to be lid or seduced by others,
wasa
spatted to hold the franchise ; and I pro.
to say, beware of those who tell you that your
liberties are not secure without universal suffrage and tme,
Is. yos bare the ballot; and allosgb the bon. gentleman
dem mat give me credit for speaking without preparatios,
yet it is a fact that at the moment it did occur to rat to'
Mastro' my position by saying—Close to you then is a
satin having universal suffrage and powarolog the banns
sad so far from calling that nation by an opprobrious
=or wise such expressions as those ginned by dr
lies. ;leadsmen, I said—sad I have a &Waist Nish.
limbs of die words, with are them—tint makss IM
meet polished of nations, celebrated is arts and anon Is
litmetsre ad in science—the liberties of that nation no
Irbefore a single man. The right Lou. geodes.=
ma: I Sink, that the people of this country hates an
Uses I us sure they bate mystification. (Ch M 3
They like the truth; they like to boar it spoken ; *try
dare to speak it. (Olsson) * If the language I have
sled has bees unworthy of • British misister-4t
shall be held by the hone to be WNW
UMW with pease then I may I ea sot el
Is sit Is this kense ; and, if the Naas declares that I haw
sod aseenn espensiens—inge.per @sprain...4 sill
abide by thole rhumba. (Cheers.) Bet this I say, Abe*
I an desire, el stalsonang the most &kW. ideass
with Proses—aimmeak I am desirous that Oa aIPIM
shodd fall fres nit to ante the animosity Of ligl=
ple*; still, if I sot set to speak, either oa
se la this hone, dot which my heart AMON mil
sty stud sad swims leant'', than I 1•7
eartalely I an set lit Is be a miller, It ens
b• the *plaice of th lbws of Common Chain.) 1
ea a sinner : bet I act ,paws* this—that( I on
wive of a free orestry iYsL dreg to agnate the
whin lens the truth ; sad which, after all, Is tb
step of the liberties of Istope. (Load &am)
N. GIBSON regretted the reply glean Sy tlis2
hoc geotheosa who had just spoken to ti
as
boa member for the West Riding. The tig
seac wise was supposed to represent the pulley at
ban Peel, might read with benefit what air SAM
Peel had and on this paint in litt 1. (Hoer Issa)
There said be as doubt, whatever might be sok lefts
mum, that the lameming armaments of ZVI Mg
Woks lo !ailed selmestaebans is Massa mous
Ow um gins he Ii se ilar the seseedsy Kimono is
Urn Bigiss4 hal set the •
IA MB berh inestoes on tbo other sideuslitt
=lnehlt topes the applied the surplus revenue is
limitilint mak enable importiust branches of
1610111ffl tinleattir labourers would leave this
CRP districts would be materially
tlmd liety of competing with foreigners
ie Ss posissisi of warn would be Greatly enhanced.
Tmom he said that of all persons in this cuntry the
ball# Nonisters were the moat interested in apply-

:lion upon her Majesty's present administration until he
saw their measures of reform. (!fear, hear.) lie thought
that if it were true that four hours of a cabinet c)uncil
were occupied on the Turkish empire, they would him been
better employed in considering the proviiions of the Enttlish
Worm bill; and although he admitted that there might he
moons for postponement known only to those in power,
Iwo should hive wished that the measure ahnul.l hue,
boon introduced at least this session, in order that it
Nei& has. fairly come under the consideration of the coun-
try previous to its being brought forward in the session of
UZI. (Ileac) Hs gave credit to the government for good
intentions with regard to this measure of reform, because,
knowing their great experience and ability, he was sure
Meat they would not bring in any measure upon such Is sub-
ject that would nut te, of that comprehensive character that

would be calculated at least to settle that question for some
fair period of time. lie hoped, also, that the government,
having, as they had beard of late, so much approved of the
freedom of the peso, would not forgot that, although we
did enjoy considerable freedom in this country in reference
to our neve•papers and our public press, th,t we fell short,
nevertheless, of entire and absolute freedom (11.-tr, hear )
He hoped that these expressions of feelinr in reference to
Our liberty of the press might at least be taken as forerun-
ners
en the part of the government that they would eman-
cipate the press in this country, lintel it, and give to
the people of England the benefit of a full, free,
sad cheap d.sseminetion of knowledge. (Cheers) He
wee nuigaine that the government would undertake that,
ea parted tLeir public policy, because they had oxpre'oeu
themselves as favourable to the cause of education, and he
could conceive uo auxiliary so powerful to the cause of edu-
cation as a cheap and a free press, diffusing through all
closer, of the community cheap and useful informatfor_
With these opinions he would conclude, and would simply
say, in reference to the insinuations of the right hon. gen-
tleman (Mr. Disraeli) that, although he might choose to
say theT bad a conservative government, and a coon rvative
opposition, he would fiud that the members wl,o repre-
seated the indepeadent and Wendt. nt liberals of this
country would be true to their principles, though they
might not be induced to embark in any needless or vexes
time opposition to the government. (Cheers )
Mr. 11. BAILLIE said they were met to-iley for the pur-
pose of voting away the publie money, and a fair opp•ertu-
nity was presented of obtaining infurmation from the go-
ireenment. There could be no 0CC.14•0 on which such it
ecierse could be more justified, when they considered
the circumstances under which the present administration
was formed, tnat it was composed of men who hail differed
on almost all great and important questioie. The first
question to which he should advert was that of
parliamentary reform. They all knew the opinions of the
noble lord the mess her for the city of London, who, last
year, brought forward a bill on the subject, and hod since
declared that his opinions were unchanged ; and they knew
that the riAt hon. hart. (Sir James Graham) had, in a
speech to his constituents, declared his opinions, from
which he might be c msidered as having placed himself in
the foremost ranks of the advanced rehniners of the day.
But what were tho opinions of the right hon. member for
the Uni, -of Oxford? Did her along with the noble

_ iversity s. Ind he go an— ,„
lord and the right hnli. baronet ? Then there was the re-
ligious question. What was the opinion of the various
members of the government with regard to the spirit which
dictated the Ecclesiastical Tides Bill? Did r.et the several
membersof the government entertain irreconeileable opinions
on that subject. There was the :ann. and learned gentleman,
the late member for Athlone, who at a banquet given to
him to celebrate his return, said he would join no party
who would not repeal the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill, and
who would not abolish a church establishment with which
the majority of tho people of Ireland were not in commu-
nion. Would the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) ho prepared
to go that length ? There were some hon. members who
never let pass an opportunity of stating that they acre the
admirers and followers of the late Sir Robert Psel. They
would require all that their character could affsrd, end all
the glory of the late Sir Robert Peel, in order to convince
the country that they had not obtained power at tho semi-
fins of those principles wh'eh Sir Robert Peel always advo•
cited; and when the Prime Minister told them that he
knew no difference between a conservative and a liberal—
that it was a distinction without a difference—he must say
that such language betrayed a sacrifice of principle which
struck at the root of all constitutionsl government.
Lord D. STUART could not but feel greatly obliged
to the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) for
originating this discussion, because it had elicited from
all aides of the house a determination to keep on good
terms with the government and the people of France.
With regard to the press, he thought the press would
have abdicated its high functions if it had omitted to
geoemont on what was passing in a neighbouring country,
MI he did not at the time regard with any degree
• appeobation the complaints of the press or its observa•
tiring. He thought it was no wonder, when they saw a man
obtain supreme power by belying all his professions which
be had made up to the last moment, that the press should
censure conduct like that. At the same time he fully ad-
mitted that this country had nothing to do with the inter-
eel ,gainer France. If the French were alarmed at the ex-
tame length to which liberty hail been carried there, and
were willing to succumb to an absolute government, that was
their affair, not ours, sad we hail no sort of business to in-
terfere with them. But certainly he did not think that the
press or the statesmen of this country ought to bt silent on
such a subject. They had a right to express their candid
opinion, and that expression of opinion ought not to pre-
vent a good understanding between tele country and
France, which he trusted would always continue. Ile
agreed with the noble lord that, although the people of '
France might be content to forego their liberties fur a time,
yet, enlightened as they were, and accustomed as they had
been to the enjoyment of free institutions, they would not
remain deprived of those institutions, but by some means or
other, by peaceable means it was to be hoped, they would
recover those institutions, without which no country could
lemg continue to be happy. In this view he was gratified
at the speedy recognition of the Emperor of the French by
our government. He heard with great satisfaction that the
two governments were agreed as to the necessity of main-
taining the Turkish power, and he hoped they would '
always unite on those questions which had for their object
the maintenance of the independence of Turkey.
Mr. HUME said he wished to make a tew observations
as to their mode of procedure, which seemed to him to be
contrary to rule and common sense. They were about to
vote nearly seven millions of money for the naval expendi-
ture of the country before they knew how the money was
to he paid. There were dve members of the present go-
vernment who, when the right hon. gentleman
opposite (Mr. Disraeli) proposed to go into coin.
mitten on the tea duties, said they could not
reduce a single farthing of tax until they knew
they bad the means, until the income tax was renewed.
He did not think they would be justified in voting seven
miaow of mem until the house had pronounced an
spleen as to the sestinuasee of the income tax. Two
nee* age the reseal Chancellor of the Exchequer, Lord
Jan Rene% sad the President of the Hoard of Control,
anassessi themselves to be snood to any modification of
that toe ; end if they were of that opinion still, of course
they would pewee* to renew the tax, with all its inequa-
lities ; • emu whisk he was satisfied the house would
never wades. (Hess, hew.) By a paper which had been
laid ups the table noisy, it appeared that there
wee a surplus in the Illschequer of two millions and
a half; but, if the insoles tan was not renewed, that sur-
plus wield be (inverted We a deficit of three millions ;
and His hems; In that state of uncertainty, ought not to
nee supplies seta the gpeavvw t had pointed out how
the mum wee to be (Hear, hear.) In Decem-
ber het the messes Clnessibir el the Exchequer took pre- 1
einly the same albinism OM he was now miakiag. The
right hoa. Ilestuoiled then that it would be most
unwastitu to vote soy portion of the natiesel
Mmadia beton the ways and means were discleedsa
tre
surly what was good for the goose was sse
in tb gadler. (A laugh.) He therefore should nit=
going We mesmittee until some explanation had
/lan. sad hr that purpose be would move that the debate
be adjourned until this day week. (Hear' hear.)
Led PALMERSTON hoped his hon. friend would not
press the amendment, particularly as it had already been
11111011/111111 that the financial statement, which would in-
dada the whole question of the income tax, would be made
bassetiately after Easter. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME said this explanation was not satisfactory, and
he should divide.
The house accordingly divided, when there smeared—
For ping into committee. 164
Against it
Majority —l36
The house then went into emeraittee.
NAVY ESTIMATES.
Sir I. GRAHAM said he was happy to state that the
vets he was about to ask for, though it would propose an
increase of expenditure, would involve no increase in the
number of men, while ke should move the vote upon pre-
cisely the same grounds that the sop' - vote was

increase of 309,0U0.:. or in round numbers of 400,0001. would
be made up of three items, Es 101,0001., being in increase
upon the vets fur tho pay of the men; 70.0001., being an
increase upon the vote for victuals; and 140,0001., 'wing
en increase upon the vote for naval awes, which would in-
clude the machinery neeemary tor the ships that were to
undergo alterations. (Dear, hear.) And here he must
pause for a moment to do justice to his right hoo. friend
the member fur Portsmouth, who preceded him in the
office he now had the honour of holding. Bring a mem-
ber of the committee of 1848, he was aware that his
right honourable friend took the same Mews of the Naval
estimates as himself, but he was cot aware, until he came
to the Admiralty, how much his right hon. friend bad
accomplished in carrying out thine views. During the period
that his
. . .
--• • •

...- right bon. friend presided over the Admiralty, hie
right hon. friend fully carried out many of the recommenda-
tions of the committee. The home would observe that tht v
were now about to vote for the pay and victualling of
45,500 seamen and marines. Now in the year 1817-1818,
when his right Lon. friend was in office, or the year
immediately preceding, there was voted for 'tie
naval estimates, including the Post-offi..:e establish-
ment, a sum of 8,600,0001. That estimate was
tor only 41,500 men, but that vote, which included
marines, was 9)0,00W. more than the vote now proposed,
and vet the vote now proposed was not for 41,500 but
45,500 men. (llsar, hear.) Thus the house perceived that
the government had been enabled not only to add 4,000
more men to the service, but including the whole of the
Packet Service to effect a saving of a sum approaching a
million of money. (Ilea., hear.) Much of this saving
was due to his right honourable friend, but while ho
gave his right honourable friend credit for what he
had done, he must at the same time do justice to his imme-
diate predecessor, for when he came into office he found'
the department over which he presided in admirable otter;
be found all the stores full, he found every preparation
made for alteriog some of the vessels, and he h d now Guth-
Merit confidence to ask the committee not to increase the
number of men voted in November, while he had the satis-
faction of being able to give that, as compare,' with 1818-
1849, there was an increase in the number of men of 4,000,
and yet the sum to he voted for maintaining that force was
lass, by 100,0001., than the house voted at that time. (near,
hear.) A great portion of this saving had been effected in
the civil department of the service, and as it was still pos-
sible to effect • still greater saving, he did not despair of
being ultimately enabled t t reduce even the vote that Le
now asked for. (Hear, hear.) The house should remem-
bee, also, that the increase of 191,0001. in the pay of the
men was emirely owing to the supplemental vote, while,
with regard to the 79,0001. increase en the vote for the vic-
tualling of the men, to had to state that upon elate., every
article centupled by the sailer, in the course of the last two
years, as compared with the present year, there had been
an increase of 19 per cent. That was to say, upon the cost
of every article to be consumed in 1853, as compared with
the years 1851 and 1852, there would be an average increase
of ten per cent. hear.) The only other vote that
was then before him was number tee, which was for the
cost of the materials for building and repairing ships, be-
sides ship Ind the other ipal articles which

store", _ . prineie... -..___
were provided fur the dockyards. There was an increase
hero of 140,0001., but here again the increase in the price
of the articles would account (or the increase in the vote.
On English oak timber, for instance, there had been a rise
of three per cent., upon hemp nine-and-a- half per cent.,
upon copper twenty-four per cent., upon iron twelve per
cent., upon cobks seventeen per cent., upon copper and iron
articles 10 per cent., and upon pig iron no less than 60 per
cent.
.(Hear, hear.) Therefore, upon the whole, the in-
crease in the cost of the articles used for the navy, in the
dockyards, and the article+ consumed by the service, would
account for a considerable portion of the increase in the
vote. 'There was also Heather cause for the increase which
it was necessary he should state to the house. In the sup-
plementary estimate proposed by the late government there
was a vote of 100,0001. for machinery. Now the rivalry of
foreign powers made it absolutely necessary if we wished to
maintain not only our supremacy but even an equality
with those foreign powers, we mu t adopt the saute ma-
chinery which France, America, and Russia had iutreeluced
into their naval departments. It had therefore become ne-
cessary to alter some of our line of battle ships and adapt
them to new modes of propulsion which were used in other
navies, and this was mainly the cause of the increase to
which he had just referred. (Hear, hear.) He had now
shortly stated the three votes upon which alone any
material increase would arise, and it now remained for
him to mention certain deductions which would take plane
on ether votes. For instance, there would be reductions fa
the scientific branch of the Admiralty of 15,0001.; amen
vote for half-pay, redone, and allowances, of 6,00111. ;
besides •reduetion in the civil pensions—making in all a
reduction in the expenditure on those estimate, of 59,0001.,
or, in round numbers, • reduction of 60,0001. (Hear, hear.)
There might be something extraordinary in the first reds*.
lion occurring in the scientific branch, but the coot of sur-
veys had been greatly inereaeing of late years, and it was
proposed that during the current year the home surveys
should be somewhat diminished. Of late the surveys had
very much accumulated in the hydrographcr's office;
in point of fact, there was a large arrear of surveys not
yet published, and until that serene was reduced, it was
thought the surveys might be very properly suspended for
a time. There was a subordinate department in the har-
bours connected with the hydrographer's °See which it was
thought could be abolished without injury to the public ser-
vice, and in this way another slight saviug woull be effected.
Should he have the honour of being at the Admiralty ano-
' ther year, he himself would give cff ct to that arrange-
ment; if not, he was satisfied thatciny future board might
with advantage bring back that business under the emend
of the Admiralty and under the supervision of the hydro-
grapher himself. (Hear, hear.) Another small alteration
i in that branch was title : The officer whose duty it was to
adjust the compasses having unfortunately died, he had
thought that, without any disadvantage to the service, that
expense also might be diminished, and the appointment not
filled up. there had been a dockyard school at Ports-
mouth, intended to give apprentices a higher education,
with the view of fitting them to manage • ship. Had that
been carried to any extent, he should have thought it wise
to maintain that establishment, which cost about
1,2001. a year; as, however, only about four apprentices'
annually could be trained at that school, the cost
was too great for so small a number. There was a very
highly educated mathematician at the head of the estab-
lishment; and an arrangement might be made for biro to
remain at Portsmouth and have the supervision of all the
dockyard schools, and to give his advice and assistance in
other departments where needed. It was now proposed to
make greater use of the upper school at Greenwich, with
the view of supplying masters for the naval service ; and
this gentleman might with great advantage aid in the selec-
tion to be made. Under his supervision would also be
placed the returns of education, which had been regularly
made, but not investigated with sufficient care ; and thus
the whole subject of the education of youth on board her
Majesty's ships and in the dockyards, would be brought
completely into system. He hoped none of these savings
would be inconsistent with the progress of education in the
dockyards or on board Alp. The other savings prin-
cipally arose ant, from the diminution upon
military retrenehmieute owl allowances, by the death of '
parties who had bees recipients in • larger pro-
portion than the trash saes put on. Se with regard to the
civil peasions and allowances for superannuation, a ma*
ties bed boa made by the charge progressively diminish.
lag. AO to new works, no new works whatever were ma-
-18184
la the present year except one—the outlay at
foe the erection of buildings required for the re-
ef saws vessels at Keyhant. The moot experienced
alma dem Admiralty had been consulted as to the way
is width that :sum should be expended, so as to render it
met doable ; and they bad recommended the erection of
VINO alAWllle. The has, member for the West liiiikas
hid INAUSAIi our naval expenditure with that 01 She
United &stn. He (Sir James) held in his hand a report
presented to Cmigrean by the Treasurer of the Navy is
1862 ; sad the character of It. propositions was remarkable.
He would compare it with our expenditure; and, first, as
to the number of navy cadets. The committee on the
navy estimates bad suggested that only 100 should be ad-
mitted in any one year, being clearly of opinion that it was
necessary to place a cheek on the first admission
to offices in the navy. Sir F. T.lssfas had pone Loyola/
the opinion of the committee, and ha/ .set wisely and ear
atomically fixed the limit at 76 per INSIMIL The teeming
to the navy of the United States losaginandloi that OM
annual admission should be 62, being only a illacenias of
13. His next recommendation was livery remarkable one.
A vote of congress had abolished corporal punishments in
their navy; and this report stated that the whole discipline
of the navy had been seriously relaxed and injured, mull
that the consequent discomfort of the crews was such thee
the sailors themselves were in favour of corporal punish-
ment being again enforced. The third point related to the
establishment of factories fee the construction of all MOW
sary machinery, and for the equipment of the largest NO.
sale; and this was recommended as most essential te_the

JAY

mail-packet service • but the government did not think it
right to submit the ecionete fur that service until after
a most careful reviaion should be made of the items
of which it was composed. Independent committees
had been appointed for the investigrion of the expenditure
under the various heads;
the one for the packet service was
presided over by the Postmastor•General ; the whole ques-
tion of the Post-office estimates was under review; and
these estimate* would not be presented till the government
was in possessiten 01 the report of that committee. Already
a mat important fact had been ascertained, upon the re
port of another tommisaion, compesed of two naval and two
artillery officer', which he thought it his duty to state to
the house. The large estimate for the packet service had
been hithetto voted under the supposition that these vessels
were available for • double purpose. One object was, that
the Post-office service of chi, great country, with its remote
possessions throughout the world, should be expedited by
means of steam ; the other, whica he was sorry to find
could not be realised, was that these packets, in the merit
of war, should be available for belligerent purposes.
The must decided opinion had been pronounced,
both by naval and artillery officers, that any such
expectation would he most illusory. Speaking general's,
a large number of these packets would not be available in
the event of war; only 16, under any circumstance., would
be convertible ' • Led that conversion would be very expen-
sive, and would occupy a great length of time. That being
the real state of the case, it became the government and
the house carefully to consider the whole subject of this
large vote for the packet service. (Ilear, hear.) That par-
ticular estimate had not yet been submitted. He now
begged is put in the chairman's bands the first vote :
ss That 45,500 men be employed in the sea service for the
I year ending the 31st of March, 1851, including 12,500 royal
'marines and 2.000 boys."
Mr. HUME was understood to say that he should not
' oppose this vote. (Hear, hear.) He rejoiced to see the
right hon. baronet at the head of a deportment which had
received its greatest improvement from him. (Hear, hear.)
Since then the right hon. Coronet had sat three years on the
committee upstairs, as he (Mr. Hume) had done ; and from
this fact he hoped that the next navy estimates would
be submitted to the house in a very different form. He
had always contended that we ought not to regulate our
estimates by those of other countries, hut to look only to
what was really necessary for our own ,ervise. lie re-
gretted in some measure the reduction in the scieatific
branch. The surveys were very imperfect. Even on our
own coast some parts were diegrecefully neglected, and it
was only by means of sounding that the position of a vessel
could be ascertained He hoped the right hon. baronet
would not be led to adopt a false economy on
this head. (Hear, hear.) It would be better to double the
vote of 15,0001. than allow the existing risks to be iucurred.
He also regretted that tho vote for the Tidal Harbour Corn-I
mission was reduced. To save 40W. a year, Cot:elan Wash-
ington, the ablest man on the commission, had been re-
moved. The state of oar harbours was very inferior to
those of France. Such economy was most injurious to the
public service. There was scarcely a single vessel which
did not exhibit some unfortunate mistake; and if such men
as Mr. Green i.nd Mr. Wigrarn were consulted there would
be immense benefit to the public. 1 hero fourths of the
persons employed in the dockyards were placed there from
political motives • and what could be expected under such
circumstances ? between 1828 and 1848 there were built uo
fewer than 308 ships; and with regard to many
of them it would have been well for the country
if note single hemmer had ever been used. The only peace
tical result was the building up materials and then teeing
them to pieces. Let the right hon. baronet take two of
Green's ihips nod two of Wigranes, try them along with
two of his own ships, and compare their omits. He was
satisfied the result would be a great curtailment of expense
and increased efficiency in our naval establishments. He
had great confidence in the right hon. baronet's administra-
tion, and, as he was better acquainted with the dock-yard
system than almost any other person, he expected from him
great reforms. lie did not object to reasonable expendi•
tura ; but he hoped that after the speeches of that night,
they would hear no more of alarm in reference
to the French. (Hear, liter.) The leader of that house,
and every one who had spoken, acknowledged the friendly
disposition if that nation; and he hoped that after such a
confession there would be no further desire unnecessarily to
increase our naval and military force. . _

After a conversation, and some explanations from Sir
AWES GRAHAM,
The vote was agreed to.
The neat vote was 1,736,2361. for the wages of seamen
and marines for the current year.
Is answer to Sir 0. TYLER,
Sir J. GRAHAM explained that the arrangements of the
late Board of Admiralty with repaid to the salaries of pay-
masters would be carried into effect He also stated that a
steamer of the first class was stationed in the Bristol Chan-
nel and would periodically visit the Mersey.
Mr. WHALLEY salted attention to the want of ade-
qaate protection, by the British navy, against Morocco
pirates in the Mediterranean, and contrasted it with the
measures taken for the protection of their vends by the
French government.
The vote was agreed to; as was a vote of 615,426/. for
victualling the seamen and marines.

The CI
resumed.

then reported progreu, and the house

OFFICE OF

DILL