The Express.
London, England, 1853-08-05 00:00:00

THE AFFAIRS OF JAMAICA.

The order of the day forgoing into committee of supply
having been read,
Lord J. RUSSELL rose and said—l stated the other day
that I would, on the motion that the Speaker do leave the
chair for going into committee of supply this evening, state
the intention of her Majesty's government in regard to the co-
lony of Jamaica. Now, I am not going into any history of
the progress of the dissensions that have arisen between the
Assembly and Council of Jamaica, which led to the suspen-
sion of their legislative functions—all that I wish to refer
to is the fact that the Assembly has passed a bill limiting
the money grants necessary for carrying on the public ser-
vice to the remainder of the year only, and this appears to
the Council so objectionable that they refused their concur.
rum* to it. The Governor, in consequence, was obliged
to suspend the meetings of the Council and of the
Assembly, and the consequence is that the whole
state of legislation in the island of Jamaica remains in
abeyance. Now, in respect to the legislation of the West
India colonies you must _bear in mind that, during the last
20 years, two great changes heves taken place—changes en-
forced by the authority of the acts of the imperial legisla-
ture, and which changes were repugnant generally to the
feelings of the West India proptietors. One of these changes
was the total abolition of slavery without making the Colo-
nists, in their opinion, that compensation which they consi-
dered adequate ; and the other change was the imposing
upon them the principle of competition by admitting fo-
reigre sugar to compete with colonial sugar in the British
market. These two great changes led to much objection end
complaint on the part of the colonists, and I must say to
much lo at the time they took place. But while there
is a very obvious difference in the state of these colo-
nies, there has been no difference whatever in regard
to the imperial legislation in respect to them. (Hear, hear.)
If slavery was abolished in Jamaica, slavery was also
abolished in British Guiana end Trinidad; and if foreign
sugar has been admitted into the British markets in compe-
tition with that of Jamaica, so it has been admitted in com-
petition with the sugar of British Guiana and Trinidad.
(Hear, hear.) But there are isome circumstances connected
with the constitution which have been at all times a source
of difficulty, and is these later years have occasioned great
embarrassment, and have Heidi" ended in the stopping of
the legislature, to which I have already called attention.
We all know that in this country, according to the
practice of this house, that no vote of money is
ever made except upon the proposal of some minister
of the crown, and thus in effect the crown takes
the initiative in ad grants of money. Likewise
these grants of money are made to the crown and
the officers appointed by the crown have the collection, the
expenditure, and the management of the grants, subject to •
the control of parliament. But in Jamaica these wholesome
regulations have been departed fromZand not only has the
Assembly the general power of raising the supplies and the
proposing of them, but they have for a long period of time
taken into their own hands the management of the money
and the regulation and disbursement of the expenditure.
This practice has led to great abuses, to lavish expenditure
at particular times to the voting of grants of money far in
excess of the means of the colony, and at other times to a
desire to economise not consistent with the maintenance of
the efficiency of the public service, or with justice to the
government officials. (Hear, hear.) This leads one to the
consideration of another error—one I think which has been
committed by the colony—that is, that when there have been
lawepassed by the Jamaies legislature providing for the per.
manence of certain government officers, these officers have
been paid by votes passed from year to year. The consequence
of this has been that persons who nave accepted high
judicial and other offices on the faith of those permanent
acts of the legislature of Jamaica, have found that their just
expectations have been disappointed by the votes of money
falling very far short of the remuneration they had been led
to expect, and they have but received the salaries which, by
those permanent acts under which they were appointed,
they were promised. What the government propose
is, that there should be a permanent act, making
the necessary grant for the officers of the govern-
, meat, which should be in the shape of a permanent
salary, that is fur the judicial officers, and those whose
offices are of a permanent character. t would then be in
the Assembly of Jamaica as it is in the House of Commons,
no grant of money could be made except upon the proposal
of some person represeoling the crown. It is intended that
the crown shall have some facilities which may be provided
in various ways—that there shall be some person speaking
the sense of the crown and representing the crown. This is
done in Canada now, by what is called representative go-
vernment, by confiding the offices of the crown to persons
havinJ the confidence of the majority of the assembly. It
may not be possible, or wise, to adopt a similar provision in
Jamaica, at the same time we think there should be some
person representing - thb crown, who should make pro-
posals of grants of mosey to the assembly, and
that an officer of the crown should be the person
responsible for the expenditure, it having been found that
it is a source of great abuse for the members of the House
of Assembly themselves to have the expenditure of the
money. These three points being secured—that there
should be a permanent for the payment of those
officers who.. offices are permanent, and for whom a perma-
nent eatery is appointed ; that the initiation of all money
grants should be in the representative of the crown, and
that certain members of the House of Assembly, and cer-
tain persons entitled to appear before it, should be the tur-
eens responsible for the disposal and expenditure of the
money granted. On the other hand we propose to endue-
voter to place the finances of Jamaica on a more sound
footing than they are now. (Hear) There is for instance
a public debt of Jamaica, besides the debt due from the
colony to this country, amounting to no less than 600,0001.,
upon which interest at thereto of shout six per cent. upon
the average is paid. We propose that the imperial parlia-
ment on the proposition of the government should
give a guarantee for the payment of the in-
terest es it becomes due upon that debt, and
at the same time a sinking fund should be pro-
vided for gradually paying off the capital. This
will enable the Assembly of Jamaica very greatly to
redone the interest upon their debt from 6 probably to 31
per ant. That is as to the 600,000/. ; but there is another
sum which it is proposed to guarantee. In the House of
Assembly, as I have said, much difficulty has arisen of late
years on the subject of the salaries of certain official persona.
It is contended by the House of Assembly on the one hand,
that they are entitled, as the tax bills cease every
year, in proposing to carry those bills when they
expire, to reduce the salaries as they think fit; and it is
contended by the council, on the other hand, that it would
be a breach of faith, when persons have been induced to
accept office upon the faith of certain salaries being con-
tinued to them, to propose to make this large reduction. It
appears to us that that quarrel might be settled by this
proposition, that in regard to those offices which it was pro-
posed lately to reduce, to the holders of them compensa-
tion should be granted amounting to a few years'
salary, by the payment of which they might be
induced to give up the prospect held out to them
on their appointment, and the offices might be at unce filled
by persons who the Assembly might have reuoa to believe
would perform the duties efficiently at the reduced salary.
But to do this it would be necessary for the Assembly to raise,
under guarantee, a further sum for that purpose, which
should not be less than 60,0001. It is proposed, then, that
a loan of 630,0001. should be guaranteed by this country.
There is another measure which is proposed on this subject,
having reference to these person+, and which is absolutely
necessary to give to the proposal a fair chance of success.
The house is aware that Sir C. Grey, at the time when the
right hon. gentleman opposite (Sir J. Pakingtonj was Colo-
nial Secretary, had discharged the office of Governor of
Jamaica the fail time during which those duties are usually
performed by any colonial governor, that he discharged
those duties with signal ability, and up to the present year
has prevented those evils and errors which caist in the
constitution of Jamaica from being productive of the la-
mentable consequences which have since resulted. (Hear,
hear.) My noble friend the Duke of Newcastle, has re- I
commended to her Majesty that Sir H. Barkly should
be appointed to this important office. We do not pro- ,
pose that any permanent settlement should be made with
regard' to the salary; but there beiog already a per-
manent provision of 1,6001. attached to the office of
governor, we propose that there should be a further
sum of 3,5001. ; making up the sum of 5,0001. a year.
I propose that the grants shall be for three years.
If these propositions are accepted, the government
propose to give such a guarantee as will tend to
extricate Jamaica from her present emberressed posi-
tion. There eau be no doubt that Jamaica is one
of our most magnificent colonies in point of soil and
articles of production, and I cannot but believe that if the
unfortunate &minions which now prevail are healed, and
the sources of dispute which have brought so much embar-
rassment on the colony be for the future removed, I be
lieve we stall ace Jamaica improve as much as Trinidad and
Guiana have of late years. Having stated the propositions
which the government thought it absolutely necessary to
lay before the house before the conclusion of the session, I

is,. oal7 to M 7 that I holm tbo boas' will approve of
thorn._

Sir J. PAILINGTON said he might point to the state of
Jamaica as the fulfilment of a prediction made by him
with regard to the inevitable ninth of the policy of
1846. Ile would not, however' go further into
that question, as that was not the fitting occasion to do
so, and it was more agreeable to him to say that,
in this great crisis in the affab• of Jamaica, the government
of the day being compelled to deal with, and remedy the
suiting state of things; it was, he said, most agreeable to
him to be enabled to state that be thought the propositions
of the government, which the noble lord had that evening
indicated to the house, were such as on that side of the
house be could take on himself to say there could he no pee-
„lnk exemption. While, heartier, he tEl!r J. Pskingtoo) con-
curred in the wisdom and ropriety of the course now taken
by the government, he still thought they had much to answer
for in not turning their attention to Jamaica at an earlier
time and early in the present year have done what they now
proposed to do.
Mr. HUME did not wish to enter into any of the details
of the question, but having on a former occasion found
fault with the appointment of Mr. Darkly to the governor-
ship of British Guiana, he was bound aow to admit that be
had left the colony in a most satisfactory state, and in posses-
sion of an excellent government. The time, however, was not
far distant when ministers would have to bring before the
house the whole question of colonial government, with the
view to deciding the link which should be kept up between
the crown and the colonies. lie would not say positively
what that lick should be, but for his own part he thought
that if the governor, as the repretentati re of the Sovereign,
could be left without unnecessary control, and allowed to
make arrangements for his government according to the cir-
cumstances of the colony, the colonists themsnlves would
become more prosperous and contented.
Mr. MACGREGOR, as the representative of a class of
the community who were largely interested in Jamaica,
was envious to express his full concurrence in the proposals
of the government.
' After a few words from Mr. HORSPALL, who expressed
himself satisfied with the proposals, but at the same time
suggested that some alteration should be made in the mode
of enlisting natives for the army, the subject dropped.
OCEAN PENNY POSTAGE.

Mr. M. GIBSON wished to call the attention of the
government to a subject of some importance to the Cluntry.
It could not have escaped the mike of the government that
a large number of petitions had been presented from dif-
ferent parts of the United Kingdom, and also from the
colonies, from Canada, the West Indies, and other of our
various colonial possessions, in favour of the establishment
of a cheap and uniform system of colonial sad international
postage. (Hear, hear.) He undertook, and in fact was
under a promise, to bring this subject under the considera-
tion of parliament, and he gave notice for a committee on
the subject, thinking that a committee was the best mode
of proceeding for the purpose of inquiring into the present
state of foreign and colonial postage, and to ascertain how
far it was practicable to make a uniform charge of
a penny for the transmiasion of a letter from any
part of the United Kingdom to parts beyond
the sea where there were British mail packets plying. He
submitted the proposal of this committee to the government,
hut the session was far advanced at the time, and consider-
ing that the government had themselves submitted a pro-
posal to the colonies for reducing materially the rate of
colonial postage and rendering it more onifurm, he thought
ha should be exercising a wise discretion in not pres►ing
his motion during the present session. His object, there-
fore, in rising then was to explain why he did not bring
forward the motion, and to explain that at an
early period neat session he should renew the motion,
when he hoped the government would see no objection
to appoint a committee for inquiring into the whole ques-
tion of foreign and colonial postage.
Mr. HADFIELD remarked that it was a subject of uni-
versal regret that this question had not been taken into
consideration this session.

The subject then dropped, and the home went into com-
mittee of supply.
MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES.
-

On the question that 65,840/. be granted to defray the
expenses of the British Museum,
Mr. HUME complained that there was no minister pre-
sent to answer the objections he was about to raise in con-
nexion with this vote. The system of management car-
ried on at the British Museum was in his opinion wretched,
and in proof of this assertion be adverted to the subject of
the catalogue attached to the library of the British Mu-
seum. The library, he said, contained 1,200,000 volumes,
and at the rate the preparation of the catalogue was now
going on, it would take 40 years to complete, and would
then consist of 1,300 volumes. Some two or
three years ago, • commission was appointed
to inquire into the management of the British Museum,
and in their report there were certain recommendations
which had been wholly disregarded by the trustees. lie
therefore wished to receive some explanation of this; but
all the extravagance and all the imbecility of the manage.
meut might be got rid of by having one paid and respon-
sible manager of the establishment.
Sir R. H. INGLIS (one of the trustees) said the recom-
mendations of the commission were considered the day
after they were reported ; and, although there
was every desire to carry them out, it was found inex-
pedient to do so to the fullest extent. He desired
to draw the attention of the committee to the fact, that the
large floating balance which appeared to be yet unspent by
the trustees, was yet in the hands of the Treasury ; the
trustees having no such sum in their possession. With re-
gard to the statement, that no further purchases ought to
be made until the property in hand was arranged, since the
report of the commissioners was made to which the hon.
member for Montrose had adverted, accommodation had
been provided (broil those thinas which were at the time
of making that repert, undistributed. One department, in-
deed,
was as yet imperfectly provided, and that was the
department of printed books. No one could fail to
admit that in that department a great deficiency prevailed. '
The deficiency extended also to the aooommodation neces-
sary to the vast amount of books collected at the Museum.
It had been proposed by the trustees that a new quad-
rangle
should be built, and he believed that this might be
done by expending 50,0001. • year for four years. His hon.,
friend (Mr. Hume) had found fault with the catalogue of
the museum ; but he believed that in no building of the
kind in Europe would a catalogue so extensive and so va-
ried be found. An American gentleman who visited the
library, and who gave his evidence before the commission,
spoke in very high terms of the state of the catalogue.
Sir \V. MOLESWORTH admitted that a great want of
accommodation existed with regard to the printed books
department of the British Museum. Three plans had been
submitted to the government for remedying this. The
first plan proposed to enlarge the building externally;
the others to increase it internally. These plans were re-
ferred to the Board of Works, with a request that they
would report to the Treasury upon them. Their report had
been made, and it was at that moment under consideration
at the Tremor/. He hoped that before the next meeting
of parliament some further and definite steps would be
taken in the matter. The report of the Board of ,Works
would at a future period be laid before the house.
After some further coaversation,
The vote was agreed to.
GENERAL BOARD OF HEALTH.
Upon the vote of 11,9981. for the General Board of
Health,
Sir W. MOLESWORTH drew the attention of the com-
mittee to the feet, that the constitution of the Board of
Health would terminate next year. (Loud cheers.)
The vote was agreed to.
ENCUMBERED ESTATES COURT (IRELAND).
Upon the Tots 16,0871. for this court,
Mr. HUME said that in order to make up for the amount
expended upon the Encumbered Estates Court, a large re-
duction ought to be taking place in the Court of Chancery ;
the defects in the jtvisdietien of which this court was to
remedy.
Mr. WILSON said that a large reduction had In fact
taken place in the expenses of the Irish Court of Chancery.
The vote was agreed to.
LIGHTHOUSES ABROAD.

Upon the vote of 10,9301. fur lighthouses abroad,
Mr. HUMS complsined of the manner in which these
lighthouses were looked after. They were under no one
department of government, and hence were very imper-
fee,ly managed. Some lighthouses had been ten years in
hand.
The TOW was agreed te.
MENAI STRAITS.

Upon the vote of 2,6001. for improving the navigation of
the hlenai Straits,
Mr. WILSON, in reply to Mr. Huila, explained that
this was the last instalment of the sum of 6,0001., estimated
some tune back as the amount required for improving the
navigation of the Menai Straits.
The vote was agreed to.

DRAINAGE (IRELAND).
Upon the vote of 2,5731. for works in Ireland connected
with drainsge,
Mr F. FRENCH said that the system of drainage in
Ireland fur which this sum was voted was condemned by
every competent authority.
The vote was agreed to.
The next vote was 6,8201. for the repairs of the British
ambassador's house at Paris.
Mr. A. WISE wished Is have some explanation of this
vote. In 1815 the British government expended 30,0001. in
the parches of a house for the British ambassador at
Paris, and it was proposed now to expend 5,8201., and next
year 3,3901., in repairing it, and in converting the dining-
room into a chapel. With regard to the chapel, there were
already five or six protestant chapels in Pail!, where
Englishmen cnuld go and worship in their own way and
improve themselves an the French language. (Laughter.)
Sir W. bIOLESWORTH said in consequence of repre-
sentations made last year to the Foreign-office, of the dila-
pidated state of the house of the British ambassador, au
architect, Mr. Albano, was sent over to examine it, and he
found that it was in a most indecent state. He found that
the verandah had fallen in, the vaults under the house were
in a most ruinous' sate, the cese•pool was exhaling
the most offensive odours, the house bad not been
painted for several years, the rooms were full of vermin,
rats were lying under the dining and breakfast tables, and
there were maggots in every bed. (Laughter.) He
believed he also stated that the house had been left in
charge of a French architect, who had had considerable
sums of money for repairs, and had done nothing. On the
receipt of Mr. Albano report, it was resolved that a fur-
ther and more complete report should be made of the state
of the ambssudor's house, and the result of that report was
the estimate now before the house. With regard to fitting
up the dining room as a chapel, he might state that pre•
viously the ball-room hail been used as a chapel, but
the late government considered, and he thought justly, that
it was not proper that a room which was one day used as a
ball-room should be used the next day as a chapel, and it
was determined that the dining-room should be fitted up as
a chapel.

Mr. WISE said the house had for some years past antle-
r ally voted large sums for the repairs of this building, and
it was disgraceful that public property should be in the
state des!ribed:,.. _ .

DISRAELI said it appeared to him the committee
ooaaggpt w pause before they passed over this item. He re.
Ml{acted vs:fleetly ;he committee under which this subject
was brought before the Treasury in the late administra•
Ides. A representation was made to them by no less a per-
'sea than Lord Cowley of the state of the ambassadorial re-
sidence at Paris, and the noble lord who occupied the place
the right hon. gentleman now filled thought it his duty to
send Mr. Albano to Paris to examine the house. The re-
port of Mr. Albano never came, at least officially, before
Lim . Of course they objected to the great expense that was
considered necessary for the repairs of the ambassador's
house, but at the same time it was not for them to say the
repairs were not necessary. He asked the committee if
they ever recollected a description of a public residence that
mane up to the description which the right hon. gentleman
gave them, in most graphic language, of the
British ambassador's house in the most po.ished capital

in Europe. There was no chamber that was not in a state
of corruption; there was no piece of furniture that was
not overrun with infamous vermin ; the cellars of the
building were propped up at this moment.
Sir W. MOLESWOILTU—They were.
Mr. DISRAELI—Thin I understand a portion of this
money has been expended.
Sir W. MOLESWOKT 11-3,4201.

Mr. DISRAELI raid, then he trusted the vermin was
got rid of. Of course he was not bringing it as a charge
against the right hon. gentleman, who was not responsible
for the details, but he understood from the right hen.
gentleman that this unprecedented state of a public build-
ing, which he was sure could not be equalled in soy capi-
tal in Europe, or the world, had been brought about
by a false expenditure of money for a series of years.
Thore had been an estimate made by a professional
man—not so English professional man—and on that esti-
mate the house had voted a sum of money every year to
make repairs. The right hon. gentleman said the amount
bad not been expended, and the consequence had been the
state of a public structure which he did not think had ever
been paralleled in the experience of man. lie wanted to
know who had been living in this house all this time. Was
there a representative of her Majesty—was there an English
ambassauur—living in this house, and did he permit a sum
of money to be voted in the Rouse of Commons year after
year, and suffer this public structure thus to fall into decay.
He wanted to know what was the security against
such (aches for the future. Ile thought the house
should hesitate before granting votes of this kind.
Last year a representation was made of the state of the
ambassadorial residence at Constantinople, and after a
statement in the house, they felt it their duty to withdraw
the item from consideration. But it was not in Constanti-
nople that this scene of unparalleled outrage had taken
place, but in a city which could be visited iu less than 24
hours. Ile wanted to know whether during all these years
an adequate sum of money had bein voted for the mainte-
nance of this house, and whether her Majesty's ambassador
had resided in it, and permitted votes to be taken which
were not expended for public purposes ?
Mr. IlUblE remarked that this estimate was not signed.
They generally had the estimates authenticated by some
one. _ _

Mr. WILSON said the Treuury was responsible for the
vote. He must admit that the whole matter was involved
in considerable mystery ; and Le quite ago ed with the
right hon. gentleman that inquiry was absolutely neces-
sary. The house would be acting quite right in requiring
the report of Mr. A bano to be laid upon the table ; and to
that he (Mr. Wilson) had no objection. (Hear, bear.) At
the some time no good end would be answered by post-
poning the vote, inasmuch as the money had already been
expended—expended under circumstances which he was
sure the house would concur in saying had justified the go
vernment in ordering it to be done. The y open should be
laid on the table, if possible, to-morrow. (Hear, hear.)
The Tots was eventually agreed to, as was the follow-
ing:-70,0001. for the pensions of masters and seamen in the
merchant service, and their widows and orphans.
On the next vote, 2,1751., rewards for certain services in
the slave trade,
Sir O. PECHELL asked for some explanation.
Col. SIBTHORP wished to know when there was to be
an end of this. As long as we encouraged slave-grown
sugar, the slave-trade would continue; and be thought that
the ministers who had given their sanction to free-trade in
sugar should be made to pay these expenses. (Laughter.)
Mr. WILSON said the vote referred to circumstances
which occurred in 1848, 1819, and 1850, when Captain
Dunlop, of the ship Alert, discovered that a number of
slave-dealers had es 'Wished themselves on the coast, in
cannexion with a number of native chiefs in the interior for
the purpose of carrying on the trade in slaves. It was
necessary to land the troops, and they succeeded in libe-
rating a large number of slaves.
The committee divided on this vote, when there appeared :
For the vote.

Against it
The next vote proposed was 30,0001. to defray the expenee
of the commissions appointed to inquire into corrupt prat•
tices at elections. The ansioaneement of it was rec.:teed
with cheers.

Mr. WALPOLE said he did not rise to oppose this vote,
but merely to inquire whether any precautions had been
taken against excessive charges.
Col. riIBTRORP sold a more groat, wasteful, nod mis-
chievous expenditure than this he had never heard of. lie
bad always set his face against commissions, and ninety-
nine out of a hund ed of them had been gross frauds on the
public—robberies of the public rinney. He had yet to
learn what were corrupt practices. (Laughter.) Whatever
might have occurred in the City of London—(laughter)—
he thfied the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) to prove any
case agaiast him. These commissions were issued for party
purposes, the object being to employ certain hangers-on of
the government—brirlfros banisters. (Laughter) The
Ave or six commissions already appointed had done nothing,
and he supposed as many more were about to be created
with the same result. Lie begged to move that the vete be
postponed.

-
Viscount PALMERSTON said that with regard to the
remuneration, it was a matter to be settled by the Trea.
sury, and as yet nothing positive had been decided upon.
With respect to the selection of the commissioners, that
was left to the members who moved for the commis-
sions. They, of course, chose lawyers whose character and
attainments fitted them to conduct such an inquiry. They
were generally circuit-going lawyers, and of course they
could not be expected to forego their circuits for the pur-
pose of conducting a temporary commission without ade-
quate remuneration. They were required to pursue their
investigation. without intermission, and that had generally
been done.

The vote was agreed to.
3,7231. for compensation to 7)r. Reid, was agreed to
after a few words from Col. SIRTITOKP and Mr. Hums.

On the vote of 28,6001. for defraying the expenses of
salaries and compensation under the provisions of the
Patent Law Amendment Act, _ _

Mr. A. PELLATT asked for some explanation-ofthe
items of the vote. The amount paid in fees to the lawyers
during the first quarter after the passiog of the act wu 45L •
and the sum received during the year had been reduced
from 20,0001. to 12,0001. The expenses of the office and
the senvening which really constituted the work, co►t only
4,0001. The compensation to be awarded under the act
was 6,0001.
Mr. WILSON said that the amount of fees had been
flied by the Lord Chancellor sod the Master of the Rolls,
but the increase of bosiness had been so great that at the
end of the first quarter those fees had been reduced by
one-half. He thought there could be no complaint on that
score.

The vote was agreed to.
On an additional vote of 70,0001. for the works of the
new Houses of Parßement,
Colonel EIBTIIOItP would be glad to know when this
source of expense would terminate.
Mr. HUME believed the works would never be com-
pleted while Mr. Bury lived. He wished to know how
much had been voted altogether for the new Houses of
Parliament ?

Sir W. MOLESWORTH said the total amount that had
been alreaay expended was about 1,600,0001. He hoped to
be able to lay on the table shortly an accurate estimate of
the sum which would be required to complete the buildings.
In future all the works would be performed upon a detailed
estimate which would be presented.
Mr. BOWYER wished to call attention to the ventila-
tion of the house. The fault he found with it was that out
of nine windows eight did not open. If any one came into
the house before the morning sittings began, they would
find that it smelt like a vault, because the air was never
permitted to blow through it. It was his notion that the
windows of the house which were ornamented with a num-
ber of strange beasts should be made to open, and
the air be allowed to blow into the house, so
that there should not always be in it a residue
of foul air which was never got rid of. The same was the
case with the approaches to the house. They were honoured
with a number of windows, ornamented in the medieval
style, with the same strange beasts—(laughter)—but they
served no perpose for which windows were intended. In
the first place they gave no light, for that was intercepted
by the strange beasts—(laughter)—and in the next, they
admitted no air, for they could not open. (" Hear, hear."
and laughter.) He thought it would be better to stop up
all the windows, and have the house lighted all day as well
as night. He suggested the expediency of so arranging
things that the windows shauld be left open while the house
was not sitting, as that was the only means of obtaining
ventilation.

Mr. SPOONER said the former house was one of the
beet ventilated houses he ever was in, and it was a pity the
same system had not been applied to the present chamber.
lie wished, therefore, to know if the government had any
objection to all in Mr. Gurney again.
Mr. B. OSiIORNE said that he could state as a fact that
the lights had been placed under the gallery without the
consent of the lighting committee. Ile considered the
whole system of lighting and ventilation to be me,t imper-
fect. If any hon. gentleman would go into the climber
above she house, in which were the burners which cast the
light through the roof, they would experience a sensation
winch it was impossible to di scribe. So great indeed was
the heat and dryness that ho had been informed that the
roof of the house would after a few years become perfectly
charred. As for the lights under the gallery, they were
worthy of 'Vauxhall.
Sir W. MOLESWORTII explained that the lights under
the gallery were placed there at the request of the Speaker,
who found that hon. menihers got up there, where he
could not see them, and sometimes acted disorderly.
The vote was then agreed to, the CHAIRMAN reported
progress, and the house resumed.