The Express.
London, England, 1847-07-14 00:00:00

REPORTS.

The reports of the committees of supply, and ways and
moans, were brought up and received, and leave was given
to bring in a bill founded thereon.

MANCHESTER BISHOPRIC BILL.
Lord J. RUSSELL mid. that in moving the second read-
ing of this bill, he would address some explanation to the
house as to its objects. The report of the ecclesiastical com-
missioners, appointed ten years ago. on the subject of the
ecclesiastical state of England and Wales, advised that two
bishoprics should be united with others.
Mr. HUME rose to order. This was an order of the day,
and he apprehended there were come notices of motion
which ought to be disposed of before it mime on. He had
ma on the paper, and he appealed to the Speaker whether
he bad not a right to proceed with it. It would not occupy
much time ; but he had no objection to take it after this tulL
The SPEAKER said that en the preceding day an order
had been made that this bill should be taken at 12 o'clock.
Mr. HUME.—But there was no order for postponing the
notices of motion which take precedence this day.
The SPEAKER.—The Fleets business will not come on
tall five o'clock, and after that the notices of motion will be
taken.
Mr. HUME had no objection, so lam as it was understood
that he should then proceed with his motion.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he believed that was the usual
course of proceeding when the house sat at twelve o'clock
on notice days. The ecclesiastical commission had proposed
that the diocese of Bristol should be united with that of
Gloucester, and Bangor with St. Asaph, and that two new
bishoprics, those of Ripon and Manchester, should be con-
stituted. The first arrangement had taken place, and there
had been no well-founded objection to it. It bad been car-
ried into effect, though with some hesitation on the part of
the chapter of Gloucester ; but all the information showed
that the arrangement had been satisfactory. The bishopric
of Ripon had been created, and had been a very great relief
to the arch-diocese of York, which had become time=
populous. The other arrangement had not yet been
into effect ; the first vacancy in the two Welsh sees had only
occurred last year, by the death of the bishop of
.Bt. Asaph.
Very greet objections were then made to the ”...non, which
was considered equivalent to the suppression of one of them
ancient sees, on the ground of the strong local feeling le
Wales, that it would be a great injury to deprive North
Wales of the revenues, and that the church and clergy oh
jetted to the loss of an ancient see. This feeling p
and had so much influence in the other house, that ir 1
was carried against the influence of the present government,
and against the opinion of those who had preceded them.
When the bill came to this home, he was not prepared to
made to it ; but promised to remaide the 'subject generally,
Moog with other arrangements ttateahs a=l:
Amp wee made in the original if
tied oiserwiniesers. The bill now Ihrlettefi ad Mt
ripen to Ile away entirely with thee errearaltsal. ISM
use .sat the mesa of the two soy but it pagmeeh WENN
a new bbissris of Manchester, tie by oda, one in As
amber al efts Tim original sinwe had gene upon the
lo of me imam I. the ameba. _ logyeerod to his
Pith:Noy imam en le be arls, It timid net he by ems.
but a gnaw wombat. Heist% written a Wrens that eihet
to Ike Audible" of Onalssibary ; he
we s sheeting of
the bier; awl dry weed OW then wore reads Ow
.proposing the sesseleat of fans ow That. howst
ma coat the erepesidea ef the penal white only wse
to emote the - single bishopric ef . lb.
=r ad have to Madder, with rapid to the meal
ot this bilk—lnk whether the eldest's= le Se
odes el the seat ef St. Amok and imp"
of
wifekifififr
string le inns, limn te wind se meek of an est mai&
had paned atm yeas eget ansli.ssesaily, if sf that gilt,
whether they would ammee le dle wooden eta
Mambo/ter, mitiesed givleg ea aMilimail seat to t biloreitly
in the Sew el Leak Oa dreamt pint, ha was of
that the Maws, bribe whisk bed been maatereod tatialeu
and in the einsell Ossithift, tree a ealleisat peed he the
house to rorwasitimillar (Herr, heor.l And B&W
were proper, its taut thelialie dal*, basso Weald re-
consider Its ember In the poems seedes; fir If the bIB
should not pow sad the Mop • 1 Wow amid anemia-
nattly die before an act passed, dm prenst met would have
to be carried into effect, the two diemess would be united, and
the see of Bangor would be sapwood. Therefore, if the
house thought the two diocese Weald smarm.)' it was
desirable that they should ism* this proposition in tke
present session. As to the mini point, it could not well be
deified that the present diocese of Chester was so large as
to call for the labour, care, and attention of two bishops. If
the present bill were carried, the diocese of Chester, as re-
duced, would still contain 912,449 inhabitants, an area el
1,408 square miles, and 302 parishes or &trims ; while the
diocese of Manchester would contain 1,123,578 inhabitants,
1,220 square miles, and 313 parishes and districts. If this
new see were the same funds would be devoted to
it which were ' y intended to be applied to the united
c,l
dioceses of St. ph mad Bangor, and to the bishopric el
Manchester; there would be sufficient for the maintenance
0 the two ancient sees and the creation of a new one else-
where. There would be a* new fluids applicable to the
purpose. It was further proposed: that when the new
bishop was created the number of bishops in the House of
Lords should sot be increased, and that the new bishop
should not take his seat there. That was founded on the
belief that the number of bishops Ia the House of Lords was
sufficient; the number had continued the same for a
rat many yeah, and there seemed no valid reason for
increasing ft. With that proposal was combined an
meat which would be very much for the advents:err:PlT;
country, as will as of the bishops. Instead of a newly-ap-
pointed
Bishop of Gloucester or Exeter at once taking his
seat, the Bishop of Manchester, who had been created be-
fore, and bad done homage, would take his scot in the House
olf Lords, and the newly-created bishop would remain till
thee, was a further vacancy. By this means the bishop
would Nave the edractage of becoming thoroughly as.

qualated with his diocese, and making himself ranter of the
various onerous duties imposed upon him, before he sec-
needed to a seat in the House of Lords. It was not peopssed
to extend the principle of this arrangement to
Arch-
bishop of Canterbury or York, or the Bishops of Lyndon,
Durham, or Winchester,
_ who would remain on the same
footingas at present. Ho did not think it necessary to enter
further into the details of the bill, which would doubtless be
alluded to in the iliNill4ol3.
Mr. COLLETT asked if it was intended to establish any
new bishopric in the diocese of London ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said, though not immediately con-
cerning this bill, it was part of the government's plan, that
• report should be made to her Majesty by the bishoprics'
commission, recommending the establishment of a bishopric
of 8 t. Alban's, in relief of that of London; a bishopric of f3outh-
well, in relief of the dioceses of York and Lincoln ; and a
bishopric of Bodmin, in Cornwall; but those must each be
the subject of a separate act of parliament.
Sir R. INGLIS said he would not discuss the whole plan
of the government, but would limit himself to the measure
before the house. On en early occasion he hoped that oppor-
tunity might be given for a discussion on the state of the
church generally and the means of its adaptation to the
growing wants of the population. He cordially concurred in
the two objects of this bill—the preservation of the see of
St. Armpit: and the establishment of a new diocese at Man-
chester. For the first object they were mainly indebted to
Earl Fowls, aided by the noble lord at the head of the
government, who had conscientiously supported this object.
lint he di" approved of the means by which the noble lord
sought to carry out his object For above a thousand
yeses the bishops had had seats in the House of
Lords; and cormidering the proportion whirl the spirit-
ual peers had formerly borne to the temporal peen,
be thought their number might have been safely
increased, so as to bring it more in proportion with
the population. In 1547, the proportion of spirituel to lay
peen, when every mitred abbot had • seat in the House of
was vastly greater than at present. At the Reforma-
tion, when the population of the country was only five
millions, twenty-six suffragan bishops were created ; and be
wished that;that order had now been revived. If the same
social and civil position could not be given to the new bishops
to be created, it would have been mull better to have en-
forced the act of 28 Henry VIII., cap. 14, which might have
been done without the interference of the house ; and then,
wherever a bishop was called for, the crown would have
been empowered immediately to create one, on the applica-
tion of either of the archbishops. It was surprising that this
power was so little known, and that her Majesti and het
immediate predeceemes had not been called on to exercise it,
although it had been exercised foe 100 years after it was
given. With an increase of population from five to at
least eighteen millions, he much regretted that the noble
lord at the head of the government had not advised the
archbishops to evoke this power of the crown. As to the
maintenance of the new bishops, he believed that the diffi-
culty of providing it had been much exaggerated. lie ob-
jected in general to • bishop. holding another living, as •
vicar ; but where other provision was not made, thee must
accept the best arrangement that could be obtained. Ye
objected to the proposal for always keeping the last new
bishop out of the House of Lords; it might prevent the
members of the hierarchy from taking a part in the legisla-
tion till they were at • comparatively advanced age. He
regretted that the noble lord had hesitated to increase the
number of the hierarchy, for though the measure might
have been opposed, its defence might have been abundantly
justified on principle. There were other objections, which
he would reserve for • future discussion ; he should support
the second reading of the bill as it stood.
Mr. HORSMA.N said he was compelled by long and se-
rious consideration of the measure to propose an amendment.
He entirely concurred in the objects of the last speaker,
and gave the government full credit for the purity of
their motives; but he could not think it desirable, at
this period of the session, that this bill should be
reed • second time. It touched most ineffectively a
great principle, innovating without improving, and
evading the most important part of the question—the con-
fessed inefficiency of the church establishment both at home
and in the colonies. There were three points on which he
objected to the bill—it repealed part of the act by which the
Ecclesiastical Commissioners of 1836 were constituted ; it de-
prived some members of the hierarchy of a seat in the upper
house; and it diverted ecclesiastical property to uses for
which it had never been designed. Without contending
that all these objects were wrong, the great importance and
seriousness of the measure was sufficient to justify him in
urging its postponement after so many other bills had been
withdrawn. The first object of the bill was to prevent the
amalgamation of the two Welsh bishoprics, a measure
which had been considered and acquiesced in for seven
years, down to 1843, when the first objection was raised to it,
notwithstanding its approval by the dignitaries of the church.
These two Welsh bishopric' only contained 253 benefices,
and their united population was only 339,000, smaller than
that of the average of the dioceses in England. The Arch-
bishop of Canterbury and the other prelates bac: declared that
not only might the two dioceses he united advantageously,
but that one bishop was sufficient for the performance of the
duties. The same opinion was expressed by the Duke of
Wellington and other members of the late government It
might be right to maintain the two Welsh sees, but it was •
question which required due deliberation. One error led to
another; and now it was proposed to create • new see, which
bad been considered heretofore as an objectionable measure,
and to create • bishop without giving him • seat in the
house. In the very last session, the Bishop of London and
other prelates had declared that this was • most serious in•
noration. Another sad more important point was the dis-
posal of • sum of 17,0001. a year, for the creation of the four
new bishoprics. Four new residerees were also to be built
for them, which, according to the late estimate of the Bishop
of Ripon's palace, would cost 60,0001. It would be a much
better wayof spending the money to inereaee the number and
the stipends of the poor clergy, so as to enable every cottager
to have one whom he might consider his spiritual
pastor. Before sanctioning this expenditure, it was right to
inquire into what had been done by the ecclesiastical com-
minion appointed in 1836. The first objection to this body
was its constitution; it was a continually shifting and
changing body. The funds the commission was to receive
were from two sources : one, from the surplus of the richer
sees, which were to be applied in augmentation of the
smaller meg ; another source was the suppression of vacant
enaoaries and cathedral dignitaries, the funds of which were
to be applied to the pas meat of the poorer clergy. From the
former source they had received 167,0001.; from the latter,
194,0001.; in addition to 600,0001. which they bad been em-
powered to borrow, and of which no account had been pub-
6hed. The application of these funds was strictly limited
to the two objects named ; no part was applicable to the
establishment of new sees, until the other objects were
fulfilled. There were upwards of 10,000 benefices in
England and Wales, of which 5,947 had no suitable
residence for the clergyman ; 6,860 of these were
under 3001. • year, and 3,500 were under 1501.
Notwithstanding this, in round number, the commission
had only expended in aid of poor livikes. 167,3211. ; and in
augmentation of the poorer sees, 106,0004 ; while upon epic-
copal residences no less then 143,0001. had been expended;
making a total of 249,4004 expended in aid of episcopacy,
against 167,300/. in aid of poor benefices. (Hear, hear.)
It was true that the law enabled them to build or improve
episcopal residences • what was their idea of an episcopal re-
sidence might be gathered front the aunts expended to this
way. In the diocese of Ripon, 16,0111. had been expended ;
in Welt., 3,0001. ; in Hereford, 3,5001. ; in Oxford, 6.5001. ;
in Worcester, 7,0001. ; in Gloucester, 28,7001. ; in Roches-
ter, 28,832/. ; in Lincoln, 54,4464 ; being an average of
18,0001. for each. (Hear.) The commissioners had received
their funds all in hard cash, and were answerable to the
public for the way in which they had expended it, In these
eight dioceses, where this enormous expenditure had been
made on episcopal residences, there were 85 livings under
501. a year the clergymen receiving actually less than
the masons employed on the palatial residences of the
bishops. (Hear, hear.) It was remarkable that in the
dioceses where the greatest mum had been expended on the
residences, there were the greatest number of poor living' ;
and yet the whole sum applied in augmentation of these
livings, in the whole 8 dioceses, was 6,2771., only one-twenty-
eighth part of what had bees applied to the building of
Whops' residences. (Hear.) These details were necessanly
*sass ; tat this was the first opportunity he had had of
bringing thins ihrward. It might well be asked why the
Musa af lea tared was to be nothing but a collection of
bsosaa and amber—the rich Dives in the bishop's palace,
poor beep, at his gate, in the character of the poor
clergyman. The Issas writer (Sydney Smith) had later
observed, that this anomaly arose from the fact that all
te meashrod that taking tare of the church meant
ialds egnelo al the bitim (Neer, hear.) Would the
Muse, than, madam the &DMus et the ecclesiastical tom-
ndesioneele—litat the fends arid% from the richer sees, and
ailed the ophoopal fund, was to be applied only in aug-
neentadoa of mailer sees, without any reference whatever
to the wants of the smaller bensiess ?
. - -

CoidJOHilitinG2LCZEnt G not that she tbetlesilee
of the act of parliammt constituting the comeabista
Mr. 110GeldEAN said it was not. The Mem of the net
is the emplus_ maeggespriated, it not being medelpriel that
soy - tweed what wee neememy lrr the
manor me wadi arise. If a sum was Amend to be token
trim the ere of Durham to that of Gloucester, was It to De
seatended that it could only be applied to episcopal pur-
poses, and net to the increase of small benefices? Was the
government prepared to take that view of the matter? It
was necessary that this should be understood before this bill
was proceeded with ; for there was a belief that the bill had
been introduced merely to meet the views of the ecclesias-
tical commissioners. Wealth had Bowed in upon them ;
and though they built splendid episcopal residences, they
had not been able to dispense it all. Then came the scheme
of the four new bishoprics. The noble lord at the head of
the government had demurred as to their endowment ; this
was precisely what the oommimioners wanted, and they had
taken upo.. Am:wives the support of the new bishoprics.
(Hear, hear.) He thought that the church did
not want new bishops ; in his opinion the coope-
ration was the most important part of the church. (Hear,
hear.) It was one of Lord Bacon's maxims, that those who
served at the altar should live by the altar. Another
portant consideration wee the number of those people who
were altogether destitute of spiritual provision. The popula-
tion of England and Wale. might be taken at sixteen mil-
lions ; the number of churches and chnpela belonging to the
establishment was 13.164; of clergymen, 16,010, of whom
1608 had no duty, 1,147 were dignitaries, and 372 were
chaplains in men-of war and at foreign stations, leaving the
number of working clergy 12,993. But of these, 6,681 were
in small parishes, whose population only amounted to
1,624,000, leaving only 6,312 clergymen for about nine-
tenths of the population. In some of the most populous
parishes in London, including St. George's, Southwark,
NI ()rem, Poplar, and Shadwell, there was only one clergy-
man to about 10,000 or 12,000 of the inhabitants ; and in
seine places the proportion was one to 60;000. A visitor
of the poor in the metropolis had reported, that out of 637,
two-thirds had no mune:ion whatever with any place of
Worship. Vatter such circumstances, it war U.


THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JULY 14, 1847.

tryingly wrong to take any of the funds available
for church purposes, and apply them to the in-
crease' ef bishoprics. This bill Mine forward under the
=tide ed• bill far founding • bishopric of Man-
he would rather call it a bill fee continaing
spiritual &stilettos. (Hier, hear.) While the eoclosiaetkal
commisika had bean expanding about 70,0001. a year kr
eceledastical purposes, the various religious societies, includ-
ing the bible moiety, church bailding society, and others
supported principally by laymen, had been raising and ex-
pending half-a-million • year for the purposes of charity.
(Hear, tear.) This roved that the laity were up and doing
on all questions !skims to the wants of the people ; and
that It was unwise to legislate without considering this
feeling. In the statements he had given, he had omitted all
reference to the dissenters, not because he undervalued their
services, but because the government were bound to meet
the demand for spiritual instruction. This demand he knew
had been greatly met by the dissenters, whose seal and exer-
tions he admired ; and he could not but wish them success.
In speaking of the ecclesiastical commissioners, he hoped he
had not gone beyond the proper bounds in canvassing public
acts. He opposed this bill strenuously. It had been
insinuated that he had been influenced by private considera-
tions; so far from this being the case, he felt bound to state
that the noble lord at the head of the government, when
forming his administration, had requested him (Mr. Hors-
man) to call upon him to consult us to whether any office
could be given to him; but he had felt it desirable lathe diffi-
culties which then surrounded the noble lord, not to form
part of his administration, and after the government had
been formed no one had given it a more hearty support—
not by indiscriminate approval of all its measures, but by a
support founded on principle. He had said it was desirable
that a more general and comprehensive plan should be
adopted, and he would suggest how this might be done. It
was said the church required 4,000 additional clergymen and
60 more bishops. It was impossible this could be carried
out. The distance between the bishops and the clergy was
already too great, and he was rejoiced to hear the right hon.
baronet (Sir R. Inglis) advocate the revival of the order of
suffragan bishops. Let 60 suffragan bishops be appointed
if necessary with 1,5001. a year ; this would give a bishop to
the superuitendence of every 180,000 of the population.
For their payment, he would adopt the plan of Lord Henley.
Every one knew that our cathedral churches were ill adapted
to public worship ; the version there were deed and lifeless;
the 'aeries *eyed by the 26 deans and 104 canons might
be reduced by 1(4,0001. • year, without touching the minor
canons ; and this sum might be made applicable to other
ecelesisstical purposes. What this country wanted was an
able, active, working staff of clergy, who would spread the
light of the gospel into quarters where it bad not yet reached.
In conclusion, the hon. member quoted a memorial which
had recently bees addressed to the archbishop of Canterbury,
on the subject of extending the benefits of the church ; and
urged on the noble lord at the head of the government not
to avail himself of a make-shift, but to adopt a bold and com-
prehensive measure. He moved as an amendment a resolu-
tion declaring that the bill could not be fitly entertained in
the present session.
Mr. J. COLLETT seconded the amendment.
Sir G. GREY regretted that the hon. member, after ex-
pressing such decided hostility to the bill, had not moved
that it should be read • second time this day three
months. The principal objection appeared to be that the
bill was not comprehensive enough ; and he advocated the
appointment of sixty suffragist bahope, at a cost of 90,0001.
• year. If nothing was to be done till such a scheme could
be carried out, the result would be most unfortunate.
(Hear, hear.) In much that the hon. member had stated,
he (Sir G. Grey) concurred, as to the deplorable extent of
spiritual destitution, but he appeared to have overlooked the
great lacrosse that had been made in parochial superinten-
dence of late years, the increase of clergymen, the division
of parishes, and so on. (Hear, hear.) But the hon. mem-
ber seemed quite to overlook the value of the bishops in
superintending the church, and to regard them merely as
the recipients of public money. (Hear.) But it was grati-
fying to know that, in many parts of the country, the watch-
ful eye and guarding hand of the diocesan were beneficially
exerted for the good of the church at large. (Hear,'
hear.) Reference had been made to the report of the
commission, which disapproved the appointment of
new bishops without seats in the House of Leeds;
but it should be known that nearly all the coin-
miasioners had now changed their views on that subject.
( Hear.) As to the application of the funds of the Roclesias-
tical Commissioners, he did not hold the opinions 'stated by
the hon. member, nor did he know that the commission did.
He thought it most desirable that the surplus funds should'
be made applicable generally to the spiritual instruction of
the people (hear, hear); but this bill interfered not at all I
with such application ; it merely proposed the endowment
of the new sees, not the erection of residences, out of the
surplus funds of the commission. When the hon. member
advocated the augmentation of small livings, he should re- I
member that the funds which he would apply to the payment
of his sixty suffrsgan bishops were at present actually applied
by the commission in the augmentation of small benefices—the
fund derived from the deaneries and canonries being so applied.
Mr. HORSMAN said this was a mistake ; he would re-
duce the cathedral establishments still farther, es as to pro-

I duce 100.0001.
Sir G. GREY said if that could be done advantageously, the
funds so derived, under the present arrangement, would go in
augmentation of the smaller benefice. He had introduced
questions which involved very serious considerations of
church discipline; and if these questions were to be mooted
and discussed before anything was done, it would be most
objectionable. He did not understand the hon. mem-
ber to deny the want of a bishop in the vast population of
Lancashire ; and though the scheme proposed might not be
a perfect one, it was the best arrangement that could be
made ender the circumstances. As the constitution of the
ecclesiastical commission was now undergoing re-considera-
tion, it was scarcely the time to enter into a discussion of the
course the commission had taken. As to the amounts ex-
pended on episcopal residences, he believed the hon. mem-
ber had overlooked the difference between a principal sum
and an annual payment. The rum of 64,0001. was annually
• lied in the augmentation of small livings, and upwards of
had been thus augmented. It was an error to say that
23,0001. had been expended by the commission on the diocese
of Gloucester and Bristol: it would be seen, on reference
to the reports, that the net sum was only 1,7001., de-
ducting the sum realised by the sale of the vacated pa-
lace. In another case, that of Rochester, there was actually
a balance in favour of the commissioner'. (Hear, hear.)
Now, disputing that there were ample grounds for inquiry
into the commissienen' expenditure. he wished the house not
to run away with the idea that they were spending about
160,0001. for episcopal purposes. (Hear.) The right hon.
baronet (Sir R. Inglis) had objected to the exclusion of
the last-elected bishop from the House of Lords, on the
ground that he might not enter the legislature till late in
life. If that was an objection, he ought to move that
bishops should vacate their seats after a certain age, so as to
make way for the younger members of the hierarchy. (Hear,
and laughter.) No one could deny that a very strong and
decided feeling had been expressed against the extinction of
one of the Welsh bishoprics, both in parliament and in the
c•untry ; and to meet this feeling the present arrangement
had been made, by which a great expense would not be in-
volved. It had been urged that it was necessary, in order
to settle the question of the Welsh bishoprics, that this bill
should pass in the present session ; and he therefore hoped
that the house would now consent to its second reading.
Mr. HORSMAN explained the plan which he had pro-
posed for the payment of the 60 suffragan bishops, which he
said the right hon. gentleman bad misunderstood.
Mr. BROTHERTON, though be would not support the
amendment, was convinced this bill would be unacceptable
to a great number of his constituents. He had suspected
that the measure was objectionable when he found it
so warmly supported by the right hon. baronet below (Sir R.
Inglis). (Laughter.) He was opposeckto the numerical in-
crease of the hierarchy, and thought the ecclesiastical reve-
nues might be much better applied. Nearly all classes in
Manchester were against this bill ; the evangelical church-
men did not like it; and the dissenters opposed it, because
they thought it would increase the power of the church.
(Hear, and laughter.) Though the bill did not give the new
bishop • seat in the Howie of Lords, there was nothing to
prevent his being called there afterwards. He thought the
proper course would have been to move that the bill be read
a second time that day three months; and if any hon. mem-
ber made that proposal ho would support it.
Mr. ENT WISLE said this was not • question affecting
the dissenters, hut the church only, as it related to a re-
distribution of its funds. (Hear.) He thought the mea-
sure calculated to produce great good ; it would relieve the
burden now weighing on the Bishop a Chester, who could
not possibly exercise a proper spiritual control over such •
wide and pepnlons diocese. The exertions of the ;Parochial
clergy would be thereby stimulated ; and the church at
large would be benefited. The exclusion of the newly-
elected bishop from the House of Lords had been advocated,
not on principle, bat as a matter of convenience, to give him
time to make himself intimately acquainted with his diocese.
Hs doubted the policy of this provision ; it was an adoption
of the principle of exclusion, which would be made
applicable, la turn, to all the junior bishops when first
elected. It would be much better that the Bishop of Man-
chester, who would have such an extensive and populous
diocese to superintend, should be permanently excluded, than
that the exclusion should be made applicable to nearly all
the bishoprics in turn. (Hear.)
Mr. HUME objected to the bill on principle, and should
take the sense of the house on that principle. It broke the
compact entered into with the church in 1836 and 1838.1
whereby it was provided that a better distribution of the
church property should be made, and that for the benefit of
the church. (Hear, hear.) AU the commissioners then
concurred in not eking any new bishoprics necessary,
and in recommending the union of the two Welsh bishop-'I
rice, whence they anncipated the benefit of a fund appli-
cable to the increase of benefices in poor and populous
districts. Thus the present bill violated that first principle
of the commission—the increase of small benefices—and'

divertedtliefuntis of ihe;;Oeni;..iontotheiurpOsesof
prelacy. They were the true friends of the church who
proposed the abolition of pluralities, and the equal payment
of the clergy,—not those who sought to augment the sees in
value, and increase their number. (Hear, hear.) Undoubt-
edly, it was clearly understood at the time, that 139,0001.
was the utmost sum that should be devoted to episcopal
pur applicationthsding, it was now might to continue
theof these funds to similar purposes. The
funds were the property of the state ; and instead of applying
them to the education and spiritual instruotioa of the people,
this bill went to divert them to other purposes. The amount
of ignorance in some districts of the country was most
alarming, especially where the clergy were everpaid—(hear,
hear) ; and he would have no clergyman with lees than 3001.
a year. (Hear, hear.) He ought to be able to exercise a
metal influence on his flock, by residing amongst them and
promoting their spiritual and temporal welfare. As it was,
the good that ought to arise from the church was not ob-
tained; therefore why increase the number of bishops ?
They were above visiting and relieving the poor; they were
too much in the habit of regarding themselves as peers of
the realm. (Laughter.) it war idle to say that the sup-