The Express.
London, England, 1851-02-08 00:00:00

fro& the proposal for a new system with regard to relations
between the court of Rome and this country. I think that
whatever may be our ultimate regulation on this great
subject, for it is greater far than that to which the bill I am
about to introduce relates, we are not yet in a position to
arrange any such system. That is a thing which will
depend very much on the temper with which our present
legielation is received, and the obedience paid to it, and the
directions which may be given to him who has taken upon
himself the entire responsibility of representing at Rome
the opinions of the Roman catholic clergy, and of inducing
the Pope to issue these letters apostolic. That individuid
hoe it in his own power to remove a great portion of the
objections which have been felt to these amumptions, and if
ho has been given by the I'ope a title which belongs to the
government of Rome, and of which the election is placed in
the hand. of the sacred college, I should think that if he ham
regard to the welfare of this country, if he has regard to
peace and to the stability of the Roman catholic community
itself, the best course he can take will be to renounce the
titles he has assumed in this country, and rather to pursue
that which I believe was his original intention—which he
assured me himself was his intention—(a laugh)—tom and
reside in Rome--;continued laughter)—in the immediate
vicinity of that sovereign to whom he Ism so loudly en-
protael hi. loyalty. (Loud laughter.) However, if other
noutowls should pre , and he should instil sentiments of
amlootioin, revenge, and rashness into the ear of the Roman
court, we may then, no doubt, prepare for a long
and ardunots struggle. With respect to that struggle,
the part I shall take will be guided by the prin-
ciples which have alwaro ruled me coondutt on this subject.
I am for the fullest and must perfect enjoyment of religious,
bberty—!bar. hear)—but I am entirely opposed tu any
terfortonet nn the part of crelosiasties with the temporal
supremacy "f the realm. (Loud cheers.) For, wherever I
bare teen, i yell in my own church, a &notation to assume
powers which I thought were inconsistent with that tempo-
ral supremacy that belonged to the state, I hare not been
1110 W in urging myself, and iuducing others to urge, the
strong and prevailing objections which existed to such a
course. (Hear, hear.) I may osiy that, even last year,
when a proposal we. made, plueolole enough in itself, to
give to the behops of the estaltlihed church a power which
I thought involved an undue temporal control over the
clergy of their church, that proposal. because I raw in it this
ibutereno,os principle, was suer+ ofulij resioged by me. and re-
lasted by my colleague.' in the place in which it am proposed.(bleu,hoar.) But if that is the ease with regard to pro-
testant. who have expremell the utnt,r4 attachment to free-
dom; if that is the cow with regard to a church like the
church of England, which I believe is of all established
church, that ever existed the meet tolerant of other sects,
and the wed conuonant with the freoilons and institutions
of a vaunter like this, shall I not feel more tarongly an tot:I-
-kea...I to any attempt on the part of the church of Rome to
intmoluee her temporal ',up:re:nary into thie euuntly
beer., I cannot forget that not alone in ancient limes, but
rice In the more rent time., opinions have been put forth on
the part of that church totally alobonent to our notions of
freedom, either civil or religious. It was a very ascent
Pope who said that it was from the foul spring of
Molar. rentism had sprung the absurd wild and mad
opinion that freedom of ellialCiyaCe could be permitted or
granted to all persons in the elate. (lbw.) It is quite se
recent that tie re has been kept up in the court of Rome
a prodithition to study such works as littietiardini,
He Thou, and Arent, and even among others I find that
the Greek Keaton of Scapula is a book prohibited
to be read. I think that we may my what the
parliament of old mid, the parliament of the Roman
catholic terms too. They refused to consent that "the crown
of England, which bath been to free at all times, that it
bath been in no earthly subjection, but immediately subject
to God, in all things touching the regality of the same
amen, And to none other, should he submitted to the Pope,
and the lune and statutes of the realm by him defeated and
annuli. d at his will, in perpetual distraction of the
sovereignty of the King, nue lord, his crown and his regality,
and of all lois realm, which Goal forbid!" (Cheers.) Sir, the
parliament, the Roman catholic parliament of that day,
declared " that they will stand with the same crown tied
rurality, in those cases specially, and in all other cues
which shall he attempted against the said crown and
regality in all points with all their power." So my
I ; let us, too, stand against those', attempts ut all
punt, and with all our power. (loud cheers.)
Mr. 110ERUCK owe next, hut the rush of members
leaving the home. immediately 011 the conclusion of laird
J. Itumele. speech rendered hie op uing sentences almost
inaudible. We understood him to llllolllllisr fur the low
tone in which he spoke, out the gntund of severe indisposi-
tion, moil then to complain that the noble lord, having laid
a very aide foundation, hail conteuted himself with a very
narrow euperetrutture. Devine gone completely through
the history of Europe in his elooroliuni, he contented
him-
self with proopming a bill which was simply to prevent
Itoniati catholic tech-awake. assuming title. in the United
Kingdom, or any pert of the Queen's
lord J. RUSSELL— In the Piloted Kingdom.
Mr. RGERUCE ateept“l the noble lord'. correction, hut
certainly thought he had heard him add dominions. The
bill ale. provided, that if a party so offending should have
property left him it should be forfeited to the crown. That
was the Min] and suledance of the noble lord'. bill. (liege,

hear.) It appeared that if Dr. Wiseman Called himaels
Archbialiop of Westminster he would he punished, but if
hr eallial himself archleishop in Westminster, the law Mould
he inoperative. With the noble tonne opinion respecting reek- "
ainstie-al aggression he entirely concurred, but thus was this
brood fallacy running through everything he had uttered. lIC
atsplird the rule. which were good for a country in which
the Inman catholic religion wan arta6liehed, to a country in
which it was not recognised. (hear, hear.) Now, there
was a country in which the Roman catholic religion held a
pnition similar to its status in this country —n country,
the inhabitants of which inherited a cousiderahle portion of
the puritanical spirit of INGO, and which was now N.-
WWII by million,. of freemen. Ile alluded, of tours', to
the United States of Aine•rica, where the Roman eatholies
were treated pant the none as the 444,1ton:ins, or
any other sect. Ile was surprised that the noble
lord, in his long transit through the world of his-
tory, had omitted the only country whose iMakitiOn
this mutter wise Illaintinia to our own. Our Ca-
tholic micestora were right in wanting the power of
home, and Austria is right, and France and Russia for
doing the same at the present slay. And why ? Simply
because the Roman catholic religion is the 4-etaldislied
• of those countries, and the power of the Pope might
lee -owe a most important and dangerous element in their
government. Rut in this country, when• the religion was
not act nowledged, there was no occasion for lei/nas-
tier interference. The noble lord had said that this
proomedinat of the Pope'. Cana an insult to Eng-
lishmen, an infringement on the Quern.* preroga-
tive, and 4.n our right, and privileges of Englishmen.
'Hu noble lord hail told them that legislation was necessary
to maintain the Queen's peen's: List. and uphold the inde-
pendence of the constitutem—aml what hail he done to show
that it was necesaary ? The noble lord complained that the
lope had not put himself in coniinunication with Great
Britain pre Thins to the o stablishing of the Roman catholic
hierarchy, and that the bishop. created by him in Inland
had not put themaelves in comniunivation with the Lord
Lieutenant. If he (Mr. Roebuck) had Lau the Lord
Lieutenant, and any one of these catholic bishops had come
to him, he should have said, I know nothing of you iu
your rapacety ..f bishop, I natant you an I do the head of
the Ileothosloto or any other met you may do what you
pleas. io re sleet to the religions community to which you
tectonic : you hare no power wider the law, and, so far as
the law is concerned, you art. 11U MOW than a private in-
dividual.- If Archbishop nsan (au to call him) had,
been ase treated there would have ham no occasion for this
hill. The mottle lord hall called their attention to what a
Bath tic parliament of England had done in former times, li
wed, no doubt, when the Inepr had more power,
and England was less free than she is at present,
it woo. gloriosa thing to we the parliament stand up and
defend the independents.• of the country against the aggress-
live attempts of the papal power--hut now, when the rope
was supported by foreign Laymen., :and when, if France
we re to withdraw her troops, which she might lee induced
to do by diplotnatie rcpt, ',rotations. he would Le again a
vagabond om the free of the earth- (hear, hear)— that the,
noble lord should seise upon such an occasion to intnaluce
such a bill and in a speech of two hours' duration Taal it as
the bulwark of Bntish rtv, saw indeed surprising.
If the noble lord could frame a few that would protect men
on their death bed from priestly influence. he would go with
him to the full extent ; but hr would direct it &naiad an
priests —airainat methodist pre:ninon as well as agaivat
lw-
thalir prints—against the !bishop of Loudon as against
Archhishop Wiaernan. Ile would not pretend to dined an act
of parliament against the catholic" when he did nut do so
against the dissenting maybe r or tilt. clergyman of the
establishment. Ile asked the noble lord hall lie ever Con.
kat he was anted to do? For the last Nil years
there had Lion a constant acknowledgment of all the
s'athttlk bishopps. of Ireland by their territorial titles in official
acte'lmi.^l•• Charitable' Itesepusto Act contemplated the
formation of a comminion compooed partly of Itoman ca-
tholic bi.hope, and that comminion had tamed from the
novenion, naming those bishops by the title of their deo-
area. Not- and cheers.) They were named by the it
t.i!lese they were also referred toils the act of parliament
stringent art of parliament which
le made of every catholic priest
was appointnl, and under that
table had been drawn up year
nan catholic bishops appouiting
their sera, and that at the t'
altie, under petal laws. Dui it
el he lMr. Roebuck) do—what
? It was this. The noble lord
warned him not to retrograde, I
Ducks had warned hien to do
a large and eomprehensive
Ir. Roebuck's) otneethm
toding—(64 ar, hear) —that it
hear)—not brought forward,
defend the state against the ag-
o pander to a narrow-minded and
had been raised out of doors, and to
Why, the noble lord himself
.sot formidable thing, of which he
description—he could not be alarmed
ore —unlra, indeed, he was afraid of
pried•--that influence which resulted
and their industry among
it was by CalliatiOn—OCT.
(Dear, hear.) The utmost he
net it &rind its ben. tit from its
ally an aggression for the l'ope to
- bill would boo imperative., in
Dr. Wiseman, forbidden to
of Weetstasater, were to he
Is Wielmiaster, cs the Arch-

Ile remembered, too, a string,•
required aperiudiralmeord to be •
in i reknit, statism by whom hews
art of parliament table after tab
year. in which the Itornan
the priests were named by tires
that they were liable to penalties
might he asked what would In
was hi. iihjection to the hill ? II
141.1.1 be (Mr. Roebuck) had war
awl that the hon. member for U.
tuthinir leas than undertake a
systems of ligislatian. His (Mr.
that this 1181.41MITC wm retrogrs
wm a step hackwards—Osear,
m the wade lord mid, to defer
go-who of Rome, but to pand.
ruhtar prejudice which had beci
conciliate the party opposite.
slowly could not fear that fora
had riven so terrible •deseriptio
at the power of the Pope —unit"
the influence of the priests--th
fruits their zeal, their activity.
the people. The way to milt
taint' not by penal statut....
could say fur this law was, that
utter inefficiency. lfit was 1.4 ally
mad an archbishop here, the la
tpul Una ► Stop to It. Suppose
Lawtn,- the title of Archbishop a
god the Catheikezekbiehop