The Express.
London, England, 1847-07-10 00:00:00

I

Moire anierd lend sodas woo wereaswomora=el AN.
spine a the whole the emanirp. e am.
atissioum had esereised a wile lisereeisn etedNea th!
names of thette and the peeliedee kstemem he Welt
they had not that mreimmilles Irk* wee semeney.
He Ow us kW seta hem ke pallitelkm et
kelt information. net Mill eteleiss se the Werkiimisofet
referred to had boas met eh% he. as we eanthat Inlasseps leZ
had heard, and belisuida anis awe ems, be hey
with the noble' rarl. h wade. Weireeß7 of thp=
andenergy of Ireland, net sally in relmearm to lids
seers but to di* goad eembet smite that_ rest elk'
laity which the hlielpily permitiedte risitkikeetestsy.
(Hear, hear.) These, tee, elm were themeless wear-
ing from the premiere of ibetitution—whish, he a large
sense, aniled. to *4M se well as to thess peas—had
exhibita the peek& of disintemtedne and salt-
devotion, and gray lad occurred wherein, out of
their diminished UMW tharatry had contributed not only
a great proportion etthek serwaney bat that which was of
far more vales—their dose and wpml attention, even at
the haurd of life itself (for many had fallen victims), to the
relief of their suffering fellow-oountryinen. (Hear.) God
forbid that they should not acknowledge that debt of grati-
tude which not only Ireland but England owed to those who
had so devoted themselves to the mitigation of the safferiegs
of their fellow men. While he must redeem to amok to the
noble earl's motion, this, at all events, be maid yeemie,
that in every ease when magistrates or mulles
aible petitions under the government went=
these charge., the opportunity would be given without hello
ire their names up to the public, for inch pariiee te oar my
statement in explanation of their conduct to the gomemmeet
they might be enabled to do, and that such espiettelit•
would be required in order that the irevernment=
take such steps as might be thought asesesap hits
Lord BROUGHAM thought that the sweet &weld net
have been made, and that when it was not advisible to mar
tion the comae the charges should not have teem made. IS
Wisbid, knew, to have an assurance from Ile goverammat
that these mesineake who had been guilty of ma frauds out
conduit sad smadelons dereliction of duty =WU iIIVOINIII
in the pietas of servants and labourers in employment, and
tenants. WNW property and who had paid their rent, cm the
relief hatshould not be continued in the cometissioa of the
peace. (Hear, hear.)
Earl FITZWILLIAM believed it would have been
better had the report not been presented te putionnent.
There was, however, a paragraph in it while aminked he a
few lines the pith of all the objections whisk bed be mode
to the poor-law in both bower; he swat that pining&
which described the atter kegmaty of many districts in Ire-
land for poor-law admiaistwition of any description. What,
in fact, had they done for Woad ? They had passed a poor-
law which it would be almost impossible to carry out, and
they had lent for Improvement a sum which would amount
to about la. 7td. per acre. They had passed, by acclama-
tion in that house, a bill for the sale of encumbered estates ;
bat he believed there was same hitch about the bill in an.
other place.
Lora BROUGHAM—UIm be withdrawn.
Earl FITZ WlLLlAM—Withdrawn ! Why, that had
been the fate of all the severament measure.. (Hear, hear.)
The Railway Bill, and that great lion of the session, the
Health of Towns Bill, had both been withdrawn. (Hear,
hear.) The Encumbered Estates Bill had been withdrawn,
not at the solicitations of the Irish landlords, but to please
the English mortgagees. lie approved of that bill in prin.
ciple, but he did not anticipate much benefit funs its re-
sults. Now, at the close of the session, and with a new par.
Lenient, he felt considerable uneasiness as to the intentions
of government with respect to Ireland. Did they mean
to leave it in its present condition, or did they contemplate
any vigorous measures for its regeneration ? What was its
present condition ? From the report which he held in his
band he learnt that there were at this moment two millions
of persons receiving daily Miens from the depots of the relief
committee. He would ask his noble friends on the minis-
terial bench whether they meant that such a state of things
should last ? (Hear, hear.) These rations cost 21d. each,
being 20,0351. per day, and amounting in the ear to
the enormous sum of 7,313,3751. Was it to he'
that parliament, that the people of this country whist eta-
sent to the continuance of such a system ? (Hew, hear.)
lie raked whether it was consistent with the maintenance of
public order that one-third of the population of a kingdom
should be maintained by charity ? The rates would &both
half the rental ; and what would be the condition of an Refy-
lish county in which half the rental was swallowed up by the
rate? Sussex was the highest rated county in England, sad
it was infinitely less than would be the average rating
in Ireland. There we. one step which had been
taken by the government of whi chie apposed.
He found that a bill had been paned grantian advance of
613,0001. to certain Irish railways. But more must be done ;
for if they did not raise Ireland to the level of England,
England would rapidly sink to the level of Ireland. One
way or the other the level between the two countries must
be inaintaiaed. Ho was satisfied that a judicious, but it
must be a huge, outlay of capital by the goven.ment, while
it would save Ireland, would be ultimately beneficial
to this country. Something must be done ; there
were two millions to be fed, and since the failure
of the potato crop there were no means of feeding them
in the country. England could not feed herself, but she had
something to give in return for the food which came from
other countries. Ireland had nothing to give, and govern-
ment must amply the deficiency, unites they meant that the
people should die by thousands next year, as they had done
during the present. The government ought to reflect that
great emergencies are also great opportunities, and that such
an opportunity as the present seldom offered. He hoped
that ministers would have the courage to meetthe difficulties
which presented themselves, and energy enough to bear
them through the existing emergency with honour, thereby
proving themselves worthy of the confidence the country had
in them.
Lord MONTEAG LE said that the persons who had aimed
the confidence reposed in them ought to be dismissed from
the magistracy. _
Lord RODEN said that he was better satisfied with what
the noble marquis had said than if he had carried his motion.
which he 'egged to withdraw.
The house then adjourned at a quarter to nine.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FRIDAT, JULY 9.
The Bram= took the chair at 3 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSEOESB.
SECOND READINOS.—Mansers Estate; Pawn's Estate ; Bala
REPORTS.—Arbroath aad Porter and Scottish Midland Junction
Railways sennesting Railway; Bowie Estate: London and exurb
Western Railway; Booke's Estate; Tumid! Market Company's
Estate ; Bilk.
REPORT CONBIDERED.—Great Northern Railway (Isla Of An-
halm. Extenion).
PUBLIC BLISINE2B.
PETMONIL—By Mr. W. liams, two petitions from the graziers
attending ansitheeld market, Sc Ot•ato of to wootiottowe.
REPORTS.-00WWT.Satio! r:::Parairla (Ireland): Polling at Dee-
.
end
tm o ; rotate Works _
THIRD READlllo.—Waiillaiation of Aliens Bill.
WESTMINSTER IMPROVEMENTS.
SW D. L. EVANS inquired from the noble lord the
Chief Commissioner of Woods and Forests whether the im-
provement, intended as a continuation street from New Co-
vestecelmet towards King-street, Covent-garden, was to be
carried /toward this session or postponed ?
Lord MORPETH, in answer to the question, had to ea.
press his regret that, in consequence of the state of the funds
at the disposal of the government, he was unable to give the
hon. and gallant member an assurance that he (Lori Mor-
peth) mild this session introduce • bill to carry out the im-
provement to which the hon. and gallant member alluded.
THE WELLINGTON TESTIMONIAL.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that in moving the order of the
day for a weapon eleupply, he wished to all the attention
of the !mats a peedisabir notice which semi aa the paper
for to-night, in the manes of his noble friend the maim kg
Lynn, with rehresee le the stable of the Doke Wellingten,
now erected apes the triwinglial arch in the Chien Park. On
this subject his amble friend had asked him a quad's the
other day, end slam that emotion various statements had
been made vita rupee is the /Wings of the Duke et Wal-
lington on the wit of the dates remaining wen the
arch. He (Lord J. Rowell) had le gelds amble Mead
to postpone the motion of white he lad Siren man IMO
Monday, he (Lord J. Atwell), of noon, peelpemis any
vote on the estimates with referent* to the statue IMO that
day. He asked the noble lord to consent to a palposessent
on these
.grounds. He (Lori J. Rumen) had never had any
communication of any kind with reaped to the Duke a
Wellington's feelings and *aims_ &psi the weiehtett date
a communication made to him la DruMngutrese, emu time
ago, by a gentleman well known to the house, sad wham he
did not now hesitate to nanee—he meant Mr. Craw. After
that communication, in nesordanee with the wishes of her
Majesty, it was iirranired that timishatne should be placed upon
a pedestal to be eternal err the goring, in the Park, sad
since that arrangement he (Lard J. Russell) had net re
caved any regular or authentic ocauannication on the @ab-
ject. He hesd, however, authority to Ode that her
had sagreued a widethat seeking should be done that=
be gedaild, sr odd be sonsidened ea 1•W•ttl to dr Sol-
s of the greeleet dates esid~ of her stibMete.
(lied tilleaso Es therefore wished Ns sable Mead to
*Haw lila an eppentanity of endesvwsting to assartein what
were the lbsiliwol the Duke of Wellington an the embiect.
(Hear, tier.) he hull/ the noble dabs wen whew to
the statue plead urea the pedestalheel beet pre
peed, he ad thin ask say vote in supply Itsr its mo-
tif" wad bat Muisety, he woe pomaded, would neeet readily
comsat to the statue remising where it was now placed.
Lord O. BENTINCHeedd he had not a word for beyond
at once expreseing_his eoweatt to the proposition el hb noble
friend oppisite. He (Legg G. Bentinck) was pathetic con-
scious of what the beEym of the illustrious Individual
would be in rawest et the removal of the statue, and he
could only rejoice to beer her his sable friend that which
amounted to an ammease that, without raising any discus-
sion (which to him weld base his. very panful), the me-
morial to the Duke of Weßhigton was sure, with the con- I
sent of her Mejesty, to remain where it now stood.
Sir F. TRENCH was prepared at once to give the noble
lord at the heed of the government the opinion of the Dube
of Wellington CS the su'bject. (Loud cries of " No, no.")
Lord J. RIMMELL thought it would be better, under all
the eireumallemo, that he should have an opportunity: of
aleartataing Waage sad sentiments of the noble duke
a and amide moar. (Hear.)
%Ira few words frees Mr. HINDLEY, which were loot

to the gallery,
Sir F. TRENCH hoped that on Monday, when this sub-
jut was renewed, he should be allowed to make a statement
on behalf of the sub-committee, and to read a letter from the
Duke of Wellington, which contained the whole of the in-
formation the noble lord desired to obtain.
CHARGE AGAINST MR. Hti3lE.
Mr. SPOONER claimed the indulgence of the house
whilst be brought under its notice a question of a personal
nature but which, he confidently believed, the house would
feel, when all the facts were before it, that other than per-
sonal ecasklerations were involved in the matter. He, there
1ib16.7e, would simply state the whole of the cue, and having

dam se, be amnia Mae the mire entirely la is bends
W Mese le Mile whet Nee of order oesZesenise
to ln punnet Chi Se day
trileb.seAntessie that ladegmbrjedgmat whithbe
hr bionic be bed AO, aterreag to the ther
ashram the si~ et the Mak et fietterk err le in
emeleern that it wee bh dry to nee espind the media if
the Ma. weber ter Warms, and kid den. se TM
neat morning he was Wing is hie One la the Meek
next to his Deeds)),
who Mead the mane dr
Rochester (M who beard .11 thet tsars&
was the ha. Millablir far Montrose (Mr. Nam)
semi the lee" and, in a very emits& mama, rid to hie
Sposase), "So yen ested4= lest night.
Laughter.)Speorej. "111 certain*
von morn you leet the kr
member (Kr. Hen* lemeM4 ser " Yea Ws end I
will beteg the Male et pee ses'e seadert bibs the hemp,
r wall as that et the tourer d Mr. Hatt, the he.. wombat
tar Garebeed, es I or repered to peen that set sier•thea
13 isdepisdest towobOOS Mel in the majority what re."
He (Kr. Spooner) imeedietsly mistily yea ban ony
'huge to make soder may dm, I ,as a manse et
courtesy, you rya saw noes ere glee=
at eleedes ft." Upsa whir' the bar
caw
rid, "Yea had bettor look at the essesin ef
the blue book, and- you will gad that, as a magistrate in
India, he was aernened in the meter of the Rajah et
Satter& ;" and than he left, and mimed his usual seat. At
that moment he (Mr. Spooner) esehred he was at aloes
what course to purse, but, es asehledsg the matter, end
consulting with friends of mon padlematery emporium
than himself, who said that he could net allow the mater,,
rest there, he had determined to meation the ocanneeme te
the housii,ia cedar that they leW pro an opiales spa t.
He had Menne* been told tra dim& this did mat Saitilid
to a karma et perilege, yet k enneeliet eo are le
—it smear Nib dourly tbe ehrestar et
an attempt to rimers with the insispeedease el
and to prevent them Mimi aoserdlng to the best et their
judgment, to say the Wet slit, that he (Mr. Spouse) eis&
net to beep the waits" beet from the knowledge of ihe
hem. Miatever dwage the Ma. member (Kr. Err)
✓ight ben le ring spier hie meetpmer) sift be
biped be read be allowed tire l it; but be saint
rum* that it was entious that he mist have Mem the
=the rasp now for at MR Me peer and yet be
ot
en this extrawilinary Mae Mt esammicsate it '
lim (Mr. Spooner), ths very mends, aim be had
weed avian the hosisrable MOOlbet'S adios. The
vets le had gives away he was ready to expiate
et heed ; but balled mew Air the metier calmly and he
bred dearly, he left ft to be dinar et as to the house
should seem fit. (Hear, hoar.)
Mr. HUME said he must acknowledge that • more ex-
' truirdinary speech than that just made by the hon. member
for Birmingham he (Mr. Hume) had never heard during the
long paied he had held a *eat in that house. (Hear, hear.)
WhM sitting at home yesterday at five o'clock, he had re-
ceived a note from the hon. member requesting him to be is
his plies in the house at four o'clock. On the receipt of the
note he (Mr. Hume) was wholly at a loss to conjecture what
the hon. member wanted with him • he thought, however,
that it might be because he had conUnitted some violation of
the hon. member's Seduction Bill. (Roan of laughter.)
He was now, however, undeceived upon the mattee; and be
meld put it to the house to say whether any individeal bed
ever, up to this period, had his conduct complained of or
questioned for having privately spoken to another member
ea a subject-matter about to be brought forward in the fol•
lowing week ? Instead of blaming, the hon member ought
to be obliged to him, for having privately and casually nn-
tired the subject. (Laughter.) The hon. member for Dor-
nesitire (Mr. Bankes) was present, and could state whether
these were not the facts as they occurred. In peeing along
W house to band in some papers to the elm* at the table
be (Mr. Hume), as he came back, said to the boa. member
(Kr. Spooner), "I see yr. voted agaist my motion last
eight." The answer was, Yes, I did." He (Mr. Hume)
them aired, "Have you seen the result of the number. on
0100 AAA= ? If not, there they are. Of the et who voted
agora my motion, I find enamel belonging to the late go-
' moment, to the present government, and to the East India
I Mispany. Then there is lir. Hutt andyoureolf, both of whom
have relatives who wee lONSSOWMI with the sal pert of the
nensentions in relation to the asks et the Raj of Satter*,
10 that there are only 14 irleptaiss4 imaben who voted
against me. I put them spire tbe 33 isdependent mem-
bers who voted with se, mil tarts I esseider that I haw
carried the vote." (Lead =2 The hon. member
stated thet the Mr. in the blue book was
his son, upon whislirrt. Home) said, "Very well ; on
Tuesday next I aka I see as egmernity of noticing the
subject sighs, end et englsiebeg Wu votes which were given
on the lost metre, and the Mow in which both Mr.
Spooner and lir. Hutt were into in the business." The
bon. samba, then said, " Tell me sow what is your charge
against my son ;" upon which he replied that he would hear
all when the motion came on. Oa Tuesday he would
satisfy the hen. member that both Mr. Spooner ad Mr.
Hutt mentioned in the blue book WIN meting magistrates in
the matter, the one having seised the robber who took the
papers relating to the Goa affair, and the other was the ma-
gistrate who kept the officer of the Rajah, Gonad Raub, in a
dark dungeon until he made a cmhs . , under the threat of
death, of the guilt of the rajah. This was all that had taken
place, and a more gratuitous interference than that of the
hon. member for Birmingham. he (Mr. Hume) had never
witnessed. If any breach of privilege had been committed,
it was by the hon. member himself, in thus having brought
a private communication under the notice of the house ' • and
on these grounds he thought the hon. member had not acted
in this Instance with his usual good sense and judgment.
Mr. HUTT thought the hon. member for Montrose was
a very ungrateful man, for instead of feeling obliged to those
gentlemen who declined to support him in his blunders and
difficulties, he turned round upon them in an irritating man-
ner, and accused them of base and improper motives.
(" Hear" and a laugh.) He (Mr. Hutt) should not accuse
the hon. member for Montrose of any baseness or dishonesty,
because he believed the honourabtr gentle man to be in-
capable of such conduct, but at the same time he must
say that the hon. gentleman was not on all occasions distin-
guished for elevated wisdom' nor was his language and de-
meanour on all maims characterised by the strictest
delicacy or propriety ; and therefore he must tell the hon.
member that the imputations he had been pleased to cut
upon him did not affect him in the smallest degree. He (Mr.
Hutt) trusted his character afforded him a sufficient protec-
tion against any calumnies which the hon. member might
level against him, and therefore whenever he chose to revive
these stories, he (Mr. Hutt) should receive them with perfect
cheerfulness and good humour,—indeed, he rather liked
them. (" Hear," and a laugh.) If the matter related only to
himself, he (Mr. Hutt) should be quite willing to sit down,
and not occupy the attention of the house for a sincle momeat
longer; but as reference was made to a near relative of his,
he bwed to state what were the real facts of the case.
That relative had been in that house and elsewhere
Ammo by the honourable ^; err fur 3/cutpcse
with haviag immured in a dark (lantern the mi..
nister of the wish, and there, tinder menaces of
death, compelled kin is make a confession implicating the
niah. What ireedatien was there for this false and foolish
stay ? After what bad been stated en a former ociession, he
iltaLutt) had mode an application to his relative for in-
-lon the eal4ece, who said that the whole of the try-
emeelneess were stated in the papers laid on the table of the
lessee he
_the Bard of Control. These crumbliest' were
these. Kr. Hatt en stoning to the thief tom etlh• die-
trim me whir be peeided, was informed by the mistant,
that kart Ks arena a prisoner of reek bed been thought
in, and UM ter merry he bed bean lodged is the gaol.
Mr. Hatt POSOMMIId to the trek rid eamderating the
condition eT a men who bed -MK greet power and high
station, related him from the proem, lodged him in one of
the best hems in the di serreanded bra with
everything int kindness and' mould nigger end
invited him to his own house. Not expecting such trermat,
the minister at re mrejah expared a desire to make some
communised.' reepeetiag that deport roam& Mr. Hutt
forewarnailia that ay ~Merest be right make would
be forwarded to re goneamat dismay. On this he be-
came silent, bat semi days ehermerds he made a statement,
knowing it wouldbe sent, es sired, to the government ; that
statement was reduced to in the plumes of Mr.
Hutt, his totretary, sad an airt upon Govin Row.
The document woo read over to him, and afterwards for-
warded le Os wrommr••sat at Bombay. On its receipt it was
found to seria ere lehemstra which had previously
reached them. But it me mil that Gavin Bow bad
since retracted that confession, end stated it was not volun-
tary, but had been extracted from Um while confined in a
dungeon, and not given in the maw sad under the cir-
cumstances he (Mr. Hutt) hest Just detalled. The hon.
member for biomass believed in lie rerestations. He was
at liberty to do es, bat it he she belleved that his (Mr.
Hutt's) relative was ewe, et being a pasty to the transic-
tin attributed to Ma hi modems to the unfortunate pri-
soner, it was the bourn duty lithe bm. member to bnng
the matter under the emideratioa et the house. lie (Mr.
Hutt) had now Mired he story, and he trusted that he
should be alio to *air W esmince of his relative when-
ever that mimesis night be bee! sight forward. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HAMM' as his name bell boa mentioned by the
hon. member for Montrose in eassesies with the matter
submitted to the house by his boa. Mend near hint (Mr.
Spooner), mast entirely repudiate the notion that there
had been say confidence or privacy in the conversation which
took place on the oeeaslon in question between those two
hon. members. He (Mr. Henke') had been an unwilling
listener, for the hon. member for Montrose spoke so loud
that he could not help hearing all that was said. It appeared
to him as though the hon. member for Montrose came aeries
the house purposely to make the attack upon his hon.
Mend (Mr. Spooner), who was then sitting quietly by his (Mr.
Bathes's) side. On hearing what was said, he (Mr. flanks.),
addressing the hon. member for Montrose, said, " You mean
Mg as a joke." The hon. member replied, " Yon will find
It is no joke, for I shall certainly bring the matter before the
louse." On the whole, he thought it was an attack upon
his hon. friend, for the exercise of his judgment on a ques-
tion submitted to the Donee. He (Mr. Rubes) begged to
esy that he was no party te the proceeding; he was sure the
eibaracter of his hon. friend (Mr. Spooner) required no via-
=ii at if was called upon, he felt bound to state
sli
geopie be Must say that a very offensive attack had
bum mile, coming in no very private manner an im-
perilment of the vote which his bon. friend had given.
Mr. B. OSBORNE expressed a hope, that after what had
=r Speaker would call upon the hon. member for
, and the hon. member for Birmingham, to give an
isseranCO to the house that they would take no further pro •
esedlngs in the matter. (Roars of laughter, which continued
flgt srvenl minutes.)
Mfrs. H. INGLIS said though the attempt to raise a
=til been successful, he begged to offer two or three
to the house. The hon. member for Montrose, at
the time tie submitted his motion relative to the case of the
ex. rajah, either knew, or did not know, that Mr. Spooner, of
India and Mr. Hutt, of India, were guilty parties in the
proceedings taken with regard. to that individual. If guilty,
he ought to have included their names amongst ehose whom