The Express.
London, England, 1848-08-05 00:00:00

1M l'Elt AL PAILLIAMEN'I'
.
tiousT.:: OF LOKDS.—FRIDAY. AIM. 4.
The LOOK. CHANCELLOR took his seat at 6 O'Clock.
MUTATE BUSINESS.
THIRD. READINGS.—New Grand Canal Company (Ireland) (No
I); Net, Rose Port and 11.abour ; Croraford Bridge and blenoberact
Road) Thorne Moor Drainage and Improvement ; Furness Bellam
mmtoy;
Moir Nero Improvement and Drainage; Ilirken.head Dock Ce
Moran (transfer of powers to new commissioaera. effecung acoullie•
meats with the crown, adamedment of acts) (No. 2) ; BAIA
BC MAINE:4s.
SECOND READINGS.—JumfiIe Offenders (Ireland) ; Belmar
red Preservation; Public Works (Ireland) (No. 2); BMA
03MMITTIQS.—Charity Trust Regulation ; Bankrupt's Below;
Rege ts Quadrant Oracionath ; Bills.
BEPONP—Corn Markets (Ireland) Bill.
THIKD BEADlNO.—DecLuatory Sults 1101.
COMMONS AMENDMENTS CONSIDEBED.—FaIo of Beer Itcgu.
*Hon MIL
NAVIGATION COMMITTEE.
The Earl of HARDWICKE brought up • report from
the navigation committee stating that in cons, (linnet of tht
Low attendance of noble lords and the late period of the ses
sion the committee could not present any general report,
but they expressed • hope that they might be allowed to re
aswmblo next session to continue their investigation of the

subject.
NAPLES AND SICILY.
Lord BROUGHAM wished to ask a question of the
ennoble
marquis (Lansdowne). He understood that Mr. Eis, an
attache of the English minister at Naples, proceeded on the
24th of July in 11. M S Porcupine to Palermo, in Sicily, tied
thought proper—in breach, of course, of kis legume
tient, for he (Lord Brougham) was bound to suppose
so—to make a communication to the provisional govern
merit of Palermo, the effect of wtich was to threaten them
with the withnrawal of the countenance and protection c
England if they did not within' 4 hours choose the Duke et
Genoa as regent. Surely Mr. Fagan must knots
that if there was one thing more objectionable than anothei
it wee such an interference against our ally the King or
Neeler ; and it it had not been communicated to him (Lor 1
Brougham) tired in writing, and then by word of mouth, oe
the highest authority. he could not have believed it. It was
still more impossible to imagine this gentleman could
have hail any authority for what he dud; and if ha lad not,
be should expect to see his recs.'.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE did not know what the
gentleman alluded to might have done, but he could on!,
say that neither Mr. Fagan or any one else had had insult.
lions to do what the noble and learned lord had complainedoi.
MISREPRESENTATIONS OF THE PRESS.
Lord 13ROUGIIAM said it would be in vain for the
government to attempt to put el ,coo the club' in Ireland, if
certain publications were allowed to go on dime:dentine
untruths with reference to that country. Ile had that day
seen a newspaper containing a statement that the military
had been defeated, and such a falsehood might have been
attended with the worst results; it might, in fact, have
cowed blood to have been shed in distant districts where the
truth was not known. lie was well known to be a friend to
the liberty of the press, but he would take upon himself ti
unpopularity of any measure which would put a stoe to
such fake and pernicious reports. Ile did not intend to put
a question to the noble marquis, but merely threw out these
observations for the consideratiliE MILITIA. on of the government.
'I
Lord WHARNCLIFFE wished to know whether, not
withstanding the announcement made by the prime minietei
at the commencement of the session, any measure was to te
proposed by the government afficting the constitution of the
militia?
Earl GREY said it was the intention of the government
to have proposed some en:asure on the subject tbis seen re
but the financial eonditien of the country would not allow or
the sum propoeed to be voted for the militia (160,000 e.)
being applied to that purpose.
THE CRUISERS ON THE COAST OF AFRICA.
Lord BROUGHAM undemood that a committee had est
in the other house to consider the propriety of the with
drawal of our cruisers from the coast of Africa. There could
not be a gnater fallacy than to suppose th because they
did not succeed in extirpating the slave trade that it would
be safe to withdraw them; on the contrary, they were con
stoutly rendering the meet valuable service in the suppree-
pion of that iniquitous traffic. He understood a Dr. Chile,
who had avowed hi-unit to have been engaged in the slave
trade, and to have been guilty of all its atrocities, had mails
this sugeestlon, which had received the attention of the coin
slitter.; and he could only express his surprise that they
should have listened to such a person for a moment. The
noble and learned lord concluded by moving for returns of
the number of slaves imparted into Brazil and Cuba within
the last two Tears.
Earl GREY sad that all the information which the F
reign-effice could furnish on the subject had been already
laid on the table of the house.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH thought the presence
of a squadron off the coast of Africa aggravated the evils of
the 'lave trade.
Earl GREY said the committee had not yet presented
their report ; but, when they did so, it should be commune
cited to their lordships.
THE CHARGE AGAINST VISCOUNT ARBUTHNOT.
Lord BROUGHAM wished to move for tee production of
a document presented to the grand jury who had found a
true bill against Vi-count Arbuthnot for forgery, stating
that from an accident which he had met with he had an
aperture in his skull, which produced occasional insanity.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said the document in quell
tion was one which could not be produced, as it formed no
part of the duty of the grand jury to inquire into the sane
or insane state of mind of the noble viscount, and therefore
it was not an official document. It was only the duty of
the grant: jury to inquire into the (acts of the case.
After a few words from Lord CAMeHELL, the subject
dropped.
PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND) (No. 2) BILL.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE, in moving the second
reading of this bill, stated the nature of its provisions.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH did not object to the
principle of the bill. Nothing which had occurred
had pat him out of temper with the people of
Ireland ; on the contrary, he would gladly do all
in his power to improve their condition. The en
tire sum which could be appropriated by thi
measure to the improvement of Ireland was foul
millions and a half sterlieg ; but he was convinced that it
was of no us: te improve the soil of Ireland, without first
improving the social state of that country, which was worse
than that of any other civilised eaten in Europe. There
were, as the late Lord Liverpoel had said, two Irelands, the
north and south--Protestant Irelaed snd Catholic Ireland
But it was not because of her religion, or that she had beer,
conquered, or that a large portion of her property had been
conh.cated, that the present condition of that country had
been produced. What then was the cause of the existing exist
state of Ireland? He believedit to be tkis : that the religion of
the church of the great majority of the people was repo
dialed by this country. (Hear, hear.) What thee, he
would ask, was the remedy ?—not to take the revenues of
the Protestant church to support catholiisrn—for the union
was bated upon the protestant religion ; m ither would he
give stipends to the catholic clergy; but he would all atten-
tion to this large fund to be appropriated to the purposes of
Ireland, and ask who could object to apply it—contributed
as it would be by the people of Ireland—to the purchasing of
glebe, and bulking glebehowes for the Roman catholic
clergy, leaving other matters just as they were? (Hear. I
He could not conceive how any objection could be raised to
such an atpropriation by the moat zealous religionist.
He considered that a time of difficulty was the
time when those who thought strongly on public ques
tions, and to whom the constitution had emrueted legislative
powers, ought to come forward and avow their opinions, how-
ever unpopwar such opinions might be. (Hear.)
Len! MONTEAGLE had never heard the case of the
Irish Human catholic clergy put forward in a more masterly
manner than by the nobie earl who had just spoken, nor in
a manner better calculated to meet the prejudices and to
dispel the ignorance that obtained on the subject. (Hear.)
The most fami iar way of deslir g with this question was to
recommend that provision for the Roman catholic clergy
should be made out of the property of the Established
Church. He knew of no propesition more impolitic—(hear,
hear),—or more dangerous—none that would be more dis-
tasteful to the public, or more calculated to impede the set-
tlement of the question, nor any that would be more produc-
tive of evil did it succeed. (Hear, hear.) To provide for
the two churches out of the property of the one moult.
destroy the principle on which property rested ; it would ea-
tablish two rival sects, and had to religious discord through-
out the length and breadth of the land. The plan of the no
ble ea!: was free from all these objections. If anything
could be more distasteful to the people of Irelind than
another it would be the idea that the object of paying the
clergy was to make them sulnervient to the government of
tte• day. The great object was to secure the perfect inde-
pendence of the catholic clergy. In their present Stale they
were not free to act as they wished to do. They were the
eleven of the people. It was thought here that the priests led
the people, but it was the people who led the pries,a, and
who ire nine cases out of ten compelled them to join in their
s iitation by the threat of starvation. This wail not a position
n any body of clergy should he placed.
Lord STANLEY could not but express his regret thatthe
noble earl should have thought it necessary or expedient to
take that opportunity of entering into an incidental diaries-
sion of a speculative view upon a mood important question
not before the house. (Hear.) He said a speculative view,
for he did not understand the noble earl to suggest that it
wee competent for the house to direct to the purpose stated
the sum, of money to which the bill before them referred.
The tell was simply to authorise the re-issues of payments
made by Ireland of sums advanced for a particular purpose
to the same or a similar purpose. The noble Man:lWe of
Clanricurde had explained that unless those sums were re-
advanced as they were paid, certain works which were of
national importance, and which had been carried out to
tome extent, could not be completed, nor could they be re-
placed in the same condition in regard to the public advan-
tage, as they were In before the expenditure was commenced.
No one could say that was an improper epplication of capital,
but it would be a meat inconvenient course in nailing with
hat subject to discuss incidentally the expediency or the
blicy of the principle of laying out large sums out of the
perial tr, usury to endow the Roman catholic clergy of Ire-
land. (Heide) Ile would net now argue the quesi.ion of the
endowment of the Beaman esthetic clergy; it could not be
oeened practically in this incidental way. Theoretically his
noble frien,) thought it would be wise to pay 900,0001. from
tie English . treasury to erect glebe houses for the Roman
catholic clergy.
The Feeel of ELLENBOROUGIL—Four millions and a
half.

Lord STANLEY--Rio noble friend's proposition was that
this ruin should he applied to the building of glebe how,. a for
and the endowment of the Irish Roman catholic clergy. That
was not a question of pcaky 014 ; it was a question, with re-
gard to a very I irge portion ot.;he people of this country, of
Tt 11 io us principle.. (Rear, hear.) lie did not look upon
so offenoo against the protektnet Plicion, nor go any

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