The Express.
London, England, 1862-06-21 00:00:00

AMERICA.

On the motion for going into committee of supply,
Mr. LINDSAY said be had given notice of a resolution
having for its object the recognition of the Southern States
of America, but some of his friends having thought it more
advisable under present circumstances that he should post.
pone that motion, he should do so till Friday, the 11th of
July. But bo trusted her Majesty's itoveroment would
before then see the necessity of taking into their heeds a
question so grave sod important which properly belonged to
the executive, and thus make it unnecessary foe a private
member to submit to the consideration of this house the
desirability of recognising these States, because it must be
apparent to all men that before long these States must
become an independent nation. (Hear.)
THE "BRITISH STAIV—GREEK NEWSPAPER..
Mr. MAGUIRE nee to move an address for copies of all
correspondence between the Foreign.office and K. Zenon in
refereoes to the official announcement made to N. Zenos
from the General Post-office, on the 3rd day of May, 184
informing that gentleman that directions had been given to
the British postmaster at Constantinople " not to deliver,
but to return to this country, all copies of the British Star
which might reach his office ," of the corresponderce be-
tween the Ottoman government and her Majesty's ambas-
sador at Constantinople in reference to the application, on
the part of the Ottoman government, to prohibit the trans-
ElliNloll el the British Star through the British post-office
at Constantinople ; and between her Majesty's ambaasador
at Constantioople and the Foreign-office ; and, of articles
alleged to have " incited to revolt against the government
and laws of Turkey," specifying whether they were
articles written by the editor of the British Star, or copied
from other jonroale, with the date of their publication.
This was a matter not only iovolving private rights, but •
public principle. There was nothing more dear to English-
men than the freedom of the press, sod it was his duty on
the present occasion to ask from her Majesty's government
some explanation of en act which, if rightly uodentood, was
calculated to make every Englishman Moab with shame. He
denied, on the part of M. Zenon, that there were any arta.
cles iu the paper incithig to revolt against the government
and laws of Tarkey ; while to a request that the literary
and 'dentine part of the paper, without the political part,
should be allowed to go through the post, he had re-
ceived a refusal. It was stated by M. Zane* that there
was an article in the paper relating to the Turkish Loan
and the Ottoman Bank, which might have hurt the see-
ceptibility of the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs, and
which might account for the severity of the Foreigtvoffice,
and he (Mr. Maguire) believed that the real Mistime was
criticism on the Turkish Lose, which had been ostenta-
tiously puffed from the Treasury beach in the house. The
hon. gentleman then examined the report of the British
°annul/Miters on Turkish Manes, end the general wadi-
tion of the Turkish empire, cod argued therefrom that
the obnoxious articles of M. Zeno. on this subject were
justified.
Mr. M'EVOY seconded the rootlet.
' Mr. LAYARI) said the hon. gentleman had plated •
notice upon the paper to move an address for cornier:a
dance relating to M. Zones and his newspaper, anu he
(Mr. Layard) came down to the house under the impres-
sion that the hoe. gentleman would confine
himself to that subject. but instead of doing
so he had gone over the whole Turkish pm-
tion ; sod he (Mr. Layard) must say that the
hon. gentleman bad treated him with very little courtesy,
for he had maids • peraonal attack agairet him of • serious
nature. (Cries of "Hear, hear," sad "No, no.") Ot that
attack he lead had no notice whatever, and therefore he
come down to the house quite simmered to melt it ; bet be
would endeavour to reply to the hon, gentleman with
temper and discretion, although he was labouring under ill.
putaticios. In the first piece, been going into the questioe
of Turkish laaaase, be would state the position in which
the government wee pawed in regard to this newspaper.
The Turkish IFIVORIMaa!, with a liberelity aaknowe to
other powers ta the world, permitted the English
to have at Coaessatirsople a post-offioa, through=
letters were allowed to pan without any interference what.
ever, and up to this day there had sever been a eceoplaiat of
any letter having hese opened. Now that (mild sot be said
of other countries. With all other countries Raglead had
postal conventions, I. sash el which was a alarms to the
effect that each oouatry should rioters the right of refusing
the circulation of any printed min which might be con-
sidered opposed to the lam el the ceastry. Wald was
allowed uo voice in the at Is • aeighboariag assatry
there was sometimes as abilities to • facetious puldisatisa
beiag circulated there ; yet it was said that Faglead bed le
right to require aa erphmatioa. But the poverameat et
Turkey hart bees as the vilest despotism is the
world by hi bus. fried. (Hear, hear.) New he
(Mr. Loynd) thought that be should net have made
an accusation of that kind against a goveremeet
which was in friendly alliance with this country. (Hear.)
Hr hon. friend complained that the Turkish prim 1

meat had prohibited the circulation of • poper con-
taining articles which be himself described as most
inflammatory. Those articles, they Were told, were
directly opposed to the established religion of Turkey.
Well, was it surprising that the Turkish govern-
ment should object to the circulation of such articles?
The bon. gentleman had ventured to insinuate that he
(Mr. ',spud) bad made a speech in that house
in favour of Turkish finance, because he was in-
terested in the loan as the recent chairman of the
Ottoman Bank, and as a shareholder is that bank.
Ile would not condescend to answer or deny such a charge
coming from such • man. (Oh, oh.) He certainly did make a
statement in the house upon the subject of Turkish
finance, and to that statement he entirely and firmly ad-
hered. (Hear.)
Mr. V. SCULLY—I rise to order. I move, sir, that the
words of the hon. gentleman be taken down. I submit it is
altogether unparliamentary for one hon. member to use such
language to another, and although the boo. member for
Dungarees has shown himself to be my personal enemy
( laugh)—yet as one member of parliament to another
I think it my duty to take notice of the language of the hon.
Under Secretary, and I beg, sir, to move that the words
be taken down by the clerk at the table. (" Oh, oh,"
cheers and laughter.)
The 13PBAKER—If the hon. member makes that motion
it will be Decemary that the ex►ct words be taken down.
Mr. V. BCIILLY—I cannot be expected to vooch for the
exact words, but the words I refer to, and which I wish to
be taken down, were to this effect—" I cannot be expected
to answer inch • charge coming from each • man."
Mr. MAGIIIBE—I beg the hon. member will not pre.
his motion. . _

Mr. LAYARD—If my words were unparliamentary I am
quite ready to withdraw them, or to submit to any change
you, air, may direct. You, sir, heard what this gentleman
said. Me accused me, in language not to be
of unparliamentary and dishonourable conduct. (Hear.
What he mid was, that I had made a speech
this house on Turkish finance for the purpose of fooling up
this loan—for the purpose of "rigging the market here.
His words wan—" Because I bed recently been the chair-
man of the Ottoman Bank, and that I wig then a share.
bolder, and consequently one of the agents of the Ottoman
ken." Those were his words, and I venture to say so grave
a charge was never made against a member of parliament
and a gentleman in this home. (Loud chews.) And I rea
plied to it, as I submit I was perfectly justified in dein, by
saying I iuld be doing what was inoonsistent with my
character as a man of honour, as a member of the govern-
ment, and as a member of parliament, if I condescended to
answer such a charge ooming from such a quarter. (Re-
newed chows.) Those were my words, and lam quite
willing that they should be taken down. (Hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI—I understand there is a question as to
whether the words should be taken down. Certainly if
the hon. gentleman used the phrase from "such squirter" it
would have been strictly parliamentary ; but in using the
phrase "from such a man," 1 presume the Under Secretary
spoke only from inadvertence, and lam entitled to believe
this the more ea the tone of the hon. gentleman throughout
his previous observations was extremely courteous—he
having described the hon. member for Dungarvan no less
than three times in the course of his speech as his hon.
friend, which I think very much to the ham gentleman's
credit. (Loud laughter.) I was so remarkably struck with
the courtesy of the boo. gentleman after the peculiar form
of expression the hon. member for Dunpevan had used
with respect to the relations of the Under Secretary
with the Turkish loan, that I remarked, and
my two hon. friends near me remarked, that
parliamentary courtesy had never been strained so
much as by the Under Secretary on the present occasion,
and that we thought his conduct was an example to all of
W. (More laughter.), As this misconception has arisen,
I think the house be of opinion that the honourable
gentleman spoke only from inadvertency in usingjthe expres.
sion " from such a man"—• phrase clearly unparliamen-
tary, but which he could not have intended, seeing he had
just before spoken of the honourable member for Hungary=
three times as his honourable friend. I think it is clear
the words complained of were spoken from mere inadver-
tence, but they were unquestionably unperliamestary, and
I am quite sure that upon reflection he will me that the
a:prinks wee one which be ought not to have used, and
that he will withdraw it, and express his regret for having
inadvertently in the heat of debate used it; and that then
we may proceed with the discussion upon the hon. member
for Dungarvan's motion. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON—I may be allowed to say that I
think both the boo. gentlemen have rather overstepped
what they ought to have said. (Hear, hear.) la the brat
place—l was sot in the home at the time, but &may my
it was really most offensive on the part of the hon. member
for Duegarme—(hear, heer=might almost add,
meet unparliameotary and uu between gentle-
man and gentleman for the hon. member for Dingarvaa to
accuse my boo. fried of having been influenced in his par-
liamentary conduct by private interests. (Haar, hear.)
And I think upon reflection the bon. member must see
that. That accusation being made, I am sure there is no
member in this house who, having such an imputation
made against him, and conscious of its injustice, would not
feel his tempera little ruffled—(laughter)—ad who might
not be expected, in replying to it, to use words over.
stepping the usual courtesy of debate. (Hear,
bear.) I will not refine upon the matter; but
the bon. member for Dungarvan says that he did Dot make
the statement on his own authority, but that be was only
instructed by somebody else. (" Bear, hear," and a laugh.)
Now, if an attack was made upon my private character by
• man who said he did not speak from his own knowledge,
but only from something that bad been told him by some-
body else, then I think I might fairly say that to an attack
from ` such • man " I should not coudesoend to reply.
(Loud laughter.) Of course, sir, my hon. friend will at once
submit to your decision, and if you confider that the words
he used went beyond what the usual courtesy of debate
justifies, will withdraw them. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MAGUIRE—If the hoe. gentleman wishes to make
any charge against me I am reedy at all times to meet him.
(" Oh, oh, and • laugh.) Will you allow me to explain?
(Oh, oh.) It is not fair that an hon. member's language
should remain under misconception. (Hear, hear.) I never
intended to imply that the Under Secretary was actuated by
what I wont.] call base motives, if forihis personal obi he
endeavoured to advance the loan. Os the ,xxitrey, I endea-
voured to guabrdzirelf from that misconception by saying
ad that I h too a regard for the gentlemen occupying
the Treasury to think them capable of lending them-
selves to what I coosidered a disgraceful act. That was
what I stated, sad I am ready to meet the boo. Under
Secretary wherever be pleases, and give him any further
explanation be may desire. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. LAYARD was quite willing, after what the hon.
gentleman had said, to bow to the feeling of the house, and
withdraw the phrase he had used if it won considered in
any sense unparliameatery. (Hear, hear.) At the same
time he was MO the house would feel that it WAS U 0 oecemary
for him to make an explanation as to the charge which he
had thought the hon. gentleman insinuated against him.
The boo. gentleman then proceeded to vindicate himself
against certain strictures of Mr. Maguire on hie statements
with regard to Turkish finance and law ; and he stated that
the report of the commissioners, which had shown all the
weaknesses of Turkish finance, had been communicated to
the °mimeo!" for the Turkish Loan before it was brought
out. He contended that the Turkish government had
shown more liberality in dealing with foreigners and per-
sons of a different religion to themselves than that of the

Popa
Er. BRIGHT wished to say, as this question had be-
come • contest between the partisans of the Turkish govern-
ment and the partisans of the Pope, that whatever he might
think of the wisdom of an attack upon the Turkish go-
vernmeet, he thought that the incessant attacks upon the
Pope which came from the Treasury bench were not very
judicious, and not verystatesmanlike. (Hear, bear.) There
were 6,000,000 of Roman catholica in the United Kingdom,
and yet he found constantly with the Treasury beech that
nothing was 'append so likely to obtain is cheer from cer.
UM quartets in that hoar as an attack upon anything
oeserseted with Roam, the Pope, or the catholic church.
(Hear, hear.) Ile should not be suspected of being
a partisan of the Pope or of the Roman catholic
church, but he said so much on behalf of that harmony end
good feeling which he wished to be prenerved amongst all
classes of the people of this kingdom. (Hear, hear.) Not-
withstanding that so touch had been said with regard to
Turkey, which had rather covered over and concealed the
ease which was originally brought under the notice of the
house, le still thought it was a case which it was worth
while for the house to attend to for • few minutes longer.
This Zenos, of whom the Under Secretary had
spoken with so much contempt, was a gentleman
who had lived many years—be thought 14 or more—
ls this country, WV a merchant of great respectability, was
part owner, he believed, and agent for • most
exteesive line; of Memorised" between this country
end the Levaat, and was • gentleman of education
very far above the average of rums that they were sops-
tamed to meet with. If. Zenos had not established this
paper for any purposes of pecuniary advantage. It had
been in existence about two years, and he believed be was
not mistaken in raying that during that pried it bed been
• loss to those who had conducted it of at least some
thousands of pounds. It was a paper of the very first
character in the manner in which it was got up, and the
subscription for it abroad was N. Is. a year for one
paper • week, or something like 16d. a copy. It was
printed in the Greek language sad in the Greek character,
and nothing that he had ease of the press here
mull be said to be such, if at all, superior to it. There
were lest the advertiminseata, and he supposed the Greeks
were cry food of esemetios. for he found many adverts's-
meats to that article. (A laugh.) There was ones-
nuenial pop end serrespondence, chiefly on the flue ark ;
then times were pietism, such as were to be seen in the
illeseretal Lwrw News and other illustrated publications
here • then ems ea Indian story, and genersl literature ;
then ;nether pp el pictures, and then • page contain-
Mg feels and thelietke with regard to all the countries in the
world. There was a pep containing extracts and varieties,
and thee • picture of General Scott, of the United
States, sad of the Poole dos Arts, of Paris.
There were two or three pager giving a description of the
Exhibition, and is the political part on some amnions the
&Wee is that hooey, or entracte from them, bad been
Pena, with motionless of our °ports of justices, and notices of
eminent mem ia this country. The fact was that H. Tows
winaiseheps snore as Englishman than any of them, and
n mare an Kentish:ma than the hon. member for
Dangarma aceording to his owe admission. (A laugh.)
Them was aa enthusiasm in favour of. everything English,
and the object of starting this paper had been
an endeavour to enlighten his fellow country-
men wherever they were epos all matters otaneoted with