The Express.
London, England, 1853-03-19 00:00:00

THE CAPE OF GOOD lIOPE.

Mr. ADDERLEY asked the Under Secretary of State
for the Colonies, what news of the Kaffir War had bean
received by the Sydney packet; and whether orders in
council, completing the Cape Constitution, and settling the
limits and defences of the colony, were sent out by the
mail lately despatched ; and if so, how soon copies dual
orders would be laid before the home.

Mr. PEEL said that the Sydney packet had touched at
Cape Town, but had, of course, brought no despatches from
General Cathcart, who was at the other extremity of the
colony. As to the hon. gentleman's second question, he had
to remind the house that at an early part of last month he
stated that he bad reason to believe the ordinances which
had passed the legislative council, the act for the purpose of
constituting the parliament, and of voting the civil lists
might be revised, corrected, and submitted for confirmation
to the Queen iu time to be transmitted to the colony at an
early part of the present month. He was happy to
say that her Majesty's government had been able
to send out the documents on the 4th instant.

No order bed been issued with regard to the limits of the
colons ; nor could he say when the two orders in council
would be laid upon the table of the house ; but they would
be included in the papers which Me intended to produce in
continuation of the last, on the subject of the Cape consti-
tution. (Hear, bear.)
THE AUSTRALIAN PACKET SERVICE.

Mr. DUNDAS asked her Majesty's government if it wee
not proposed to take any steps to arrange a monthly mail to
Australia,—one that might be depended on, regular, expe-
ditious, and certain, such as that conveyed hence by the
vessels of the Peninsular and Oriental Company, who carry
the Australian mails on alternate mouths, in lieu of per
mitting other parties, who have proved their utter incapa-
city to perform the contract they have undertaken, conti-
nuing to attempt to carry mails, the delivery of which they
are instrumental only in delaying.
Sir J. GRAHAM was afraid that he should be very rash
if he were to undertake to devise any mean, of making the
Australian packet service regular, expeditious, and certain.
(A laugh.) His experience, since he had been connected
with the Admiralty, was that the communications with
Australia were irregular, tardy, and uncertain. (Hear.)
'the whole question of the packet service by contract wee
under consideration. Those contracts which could be main-
tained would be enforced to the letter ; those which could
not would be abrogated with the least possible delay, and
some other means would be taken. (Hear, hear.)
THE RAJAH OF SARAWAK.
Mr. DRUMMOND said that as an infamous slander had
been circulated amongst hon. members, entitled " Spec-
memo of Sir James Brooke's Veracity," he begged to move
that copies of the last despatch of the Colonial Secretary to
Sir James, and his reply thereto, be laid upen the table of
the house.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he would state at a later period
of the evening whether the government were prepared to
produce the papers in question.
ANNEXATION OF KEROWLEE.
Is reply to Mr. OTWAY,
Sir C. WOOD stated that his answer to the hon. 'gentle-
man on the previous evening had been misrepresented in
some of the public journals. What he had really said wee
that the question had been rf'erred h me by the India
government for the decision of the home government, and
that the latter had decided to sanction the succession to the
Kerowlee government of the young man who had been
adopted by the late It ijah. (Hear, hear.)
ENGLISH FLEET IN THE ARCHIPELAGO

Lord STANLEY wished to put a question to the noble
lord with respect to a very important statement which hd
appeared in one of the newspapers of that day. That state-
ment was to the effect that the Charge, d'Affaires at Co*-
1 stantinoplo had at the requisition of the Turkish extern-
ment forwarded despatches to the admiral of the fleet at
Naha requesting him to send the British fleet in the Medi-
tv 'Taiwan to anchor in the Archipelago.
L vrel J. RUSSELL could only say tint information had
reined the Foreign-office by telegraph that such a request
,d he en made to the admiral ; but that no despatch
from
the Cha.•e d'Affaires to Admiral Donde., or to the Ad-
miralty, had been received confirming the report.
st

aJ ssrit..l ton.idetablP amusement by his reputed at.
ompl• to stray away into a speech, every Inch attempt,
wing prompqy detected, and called to order.
Ile wished to IA dm law officers of tht Crown, as commis_
0; pments, ecnetitmeil under the Patent Law
I....„Awns Act, pawed in the last session of parliament,
wh.ther ro
of tents, specifications, disclaimen, &c., or
tpb of pa, have been open fur this inspection of
so ofilee Edinhurgh and Dublin rupee.
the pubhc,
atervil by the 29tn section of the said act,
te.:eli cline tutu htt the I 4 day of October last ;
of shwthcr there is any intention on the part of the corn-
is,..omeri to introduce a bit to repeal the provisions
ntorted t, in order to c.ntralise the inspection of such
cwotiestivas, and the enrolment of such transcripts in
yoluo.
The Al fORNEY.GENERAL replied that there was so
rattstwhste vet on the part of the commissioners to de-
.stoe m„j,..ty's subjects in Scotland and Ireland of
friniasiz.• secured to them by the recent act with fe-
w; 14 wndtfK copies of specifications to Edinburgh and
10,.4,0, The only matter tont wos under the consideration
was, how that could be dime most
ton.oain...iy sad t meter iy.

COPPER COIN IN THE COLONIES.
xr. J. wlL•itiN was willow to correct an error into
iskiei he had fa len, or at least was repreeeateil to hare
ft :ca. lii answer to a question the other night, he was
ri; and 10 haw: lid that gm:gents had been made for
t of opprr coinsoe hor the colonies. That statement
cre•trd some sus' ty U.I ate'Juut of the &fusible,s of the
savant ; and he wts thsirous therefore to remark that if he
is,d 0 d tins," he ought to hare said " SOO tuns."
(Laughter.)
TIIE CLERGY RESERVES RILL.

Ik hos;e7siviitg rersultrail itrlt into committee on this
Upon the first elaum a debate arose, in which air old
music of oppesieina to the hill were traversed by Sir J.
p.;,,,c0n, Mr. Walpole, Sir F. Thesiger, Lord J. Manners,
t•t.r It. IL. Inglis, and other hon. gentlemen;
law were received with th, old weapons, in the hands of
Lord John !tooted, Sir A. Cockburn, Mr. Hume and the
goverament ssp..orten. The incompatibility of the measure
with the act of Hill, its breach of uational faith, and its
mime advaat4es to the It iman catholic*. were urged on
ere sine with au diminution of emphasis, and were met upon
tee other with arguments in which the measure was justi-
g,d upon legal sad litteral gro.ande generally, and especially
epos the great principle of colonial self-government, which
it ea. the Jeterininat:on of the ministry to maintain.
The chive was ultimately agreed to without a division ;
gad the second claim after a great discussion upon a small
Feint.
Classe 3.—" So mach of the said act of the third and
fourth years of her Majesty, chapter Hi. as charges the con.
eslidated fend of the L nited Kingdom of °mat Britain and
Indeed with, or authorise. any payment thireout of, the
sums elided to supply such deficiency as in the said act
mentioned, shall, Item and after the parsing of this act, be
repriled."
_ • • • • • • •• -•

Lord J. RUSSELL said be wished to call the attention
of th., committee to this chine, of which he intended to
move the emotion. In eider to make the motion under•
stood, it woul.l neces‘ary to state all the circumstances
. .

con voted with it. The clert.7 reserves had for a long period
been a source of contention and dispute, especially in
Upper Canada, and when the imperial govern-
ment became 'wiliest' to effect the moms of the
provinces, the reserves came again under discussion,
and Lord Sydenham was so impressed with the mischief of
discussion on that question, and the prospect of its being
weird into a united parliament, that he wrote home to urge
is die strongest terms that there should, if possible, be a
settlement of the question before the act of union was Car-
ried into 'operation. Ile (Lied J. Russell) believed that
Lsed eydenham was fully justified in the opinion he en-
tertained oa that subject. (Hear, hear) Ile believed
that, considering the exasperation that prevailed,
sad the obstinate adherence to former settlements of
certain parties, if the question had been brought into
the waited parliament immediately after its mumbling,
there would hose been great danger that the upper and
loser provinces would 'steer have been united on such
terms of harmony as would have produced permanent peace
tweets them. At all events, whether that opinion was
right or wrong, it was shared by Lord Melbourne and him-
self (Lord .1. Reseed), and also by his colleagues in the
cabinet. Lord Sydenhain was successful after considerable
dos in procuring the paining of a bill which effected a
fresh arrangement and distribution of the clergy reserves,
and a final disposal of the lands. He was also in hopes that
the sewn would have been able to give its assent to
that act, but, on consulting the law officers of the crown
at that time, they said that the provincial parliament in
prescribing what the imperial parliament should do, and in
coefinine it within certain limits, had exceeded its powers;
sad that the consent of the crown could not be given to
that act. It was necessary therefore that he (Lord J. Has-
sell) should introduce a bill into the House of Commons,
and he introduced it as nearly as possible in the terms
which Lord Sydenham had ascertained would be satisfactory
to the province. But on the introduction of that bill it
became apparent that if successful in that house, it would
sever pass the other; and he certainly felt math ember-
rased by the position of affairs. He had hipped that the
anion would prove, as it had sinew provad, a MUM
of wealth and prosperity to the proviamea, and
of strength to the United Kingdom, and was
therefore much disappointed at finding that the whole work
was likely to be marred by the difference of opinion that
prevailed between the provinces and one houseeof the impe-
ril parliament on the subject of the clergy reserves. At
that period the late Sir It sheet Peal, with some of his poli-
tical friends, endeavoured to frame the outline of an ar-
rangement with which he thought the government and the
dumb of England, as represented in the House of Lords,
might be satisfied. The outlines of that arrangement
were communicated to him (Lord J. Russell) by Sir R.
Peel, with an intimation that, if proposed ie the House of
Commons, it would possibly meet with the assent of the
Archbishop of Canterbury and the other prelates. On con-
sidering these terms, although he saw very clearly that they
would not satisfy the province of Upper Canada—and they
did not—yet the object was of sash greet importance, and
he was so sanguine in hegdeg that the gooktion m ht
be set at rest, that is iatrodased into the House
of Commons such an ausseelmeat as be theeght would
issue the support of the Archbishop of Canter-
bury, and lead to Oho settlement of the question.
le that anticipaties be OM sable lord) was MI justified.
Sir It. Peel was a most obi* supporter of the Union Bill,
endue the third marling he delivered a speech of great
power. There was a division, and there were but six boa.
gentlemen who divided ag iinst the bill. Thus the Union
Act and the Clergy Reserves Act were both carried toge-
ther. Now, no doubt he (the noble Wed) was wrong la
bang so eugenic as he was that the final settlement sr dr
question might by this means be brought atmeth Ha of
presort himself, nu doubt, too confidently opus lbat mar
Jett, eat he did is ,t think that he had made soy mistake la
accepting the arrangement that was then made ; nor did
the experience which they had bad of twelve years pesos
sad contentment in Canada, aad of the increasing prom-
penty of that proviuce, at all convince him that he had bun
wrong, or had then in any error in proposing the arrange-
ment that was made. On the contrary, he thought that
OM prosperity and that loyalty would not have 'misted in
the same degree as they haul dons, at all events, unless the
question of the clergy reserves had been made the
soon of legialatioa in use Imperial parliament. The
boss was wed aware, for they had bad mush
&erasion upon the subject that night, that the
settlement made in HMO differed from the act of 1791, not
wily with regard to various provisions as to the distri-
betas of the sum received from the clergy reserves ; but it
see differed from it in having no clause expressly giving
power to the provincial legislature to legislate upon that
subject, and in reserving power to the Imperial Parliament
to step sad preclude that legislation. On the contrary, that
en proceeded on the assumption that the clergy reserves
our to Is finally sold, sad pointed out the distribution of
fee saw of money. It seemed to him, and he argued
in the introduction of it. that, whatever was the demi-
Wien they made, it ought not in any way to be
seetralled by the present parliament or the sovereign; but
misavosisd to support the power of the legislature of
Clark to make an entirely fresh arrangement epos the
Stint if they should see fit to do so. But there was one
Came in that act to which he now wished to
eel the attention of the bowie It was the
claim by which a guarantee was given from the
Consolidated Fund for 7,7001. to the clergy of the church of
Lsglaad, and I,elBol. to the clergy of the church of Scot-
tiad. for the sums they at that time received. The Arch
8p of Csaterbury, in making what he thought a very
e•asiderable concession upon this subject, had expressed •
ha, that. unless there was some guarantee, the clergy m-
orsel might produce so insufficient a sum that the clergy
alibi pot receive the allowances which had been hitherto
PIA to them. In order to quiet that sPfolthasailms a clause
!Ts prepared with regard to rim payearui of this sum, by
Utah It was provided that, in case of a deiciency in ths
crier seems, a collateral security was to be given from
the Consolidated Fund. Cpon that subject be did not coa-
tis himself to the question, but he trusted that the matter
would be finally settled, and he thought that this
security would be a perpetual guarantee to the
!aura or England and the church of Ireland
'4 the paymeut of these surer. Sir Robert Peel
1,4 put in the saute debate, and used nearly the same
ordie Ile said that the house ought to accept the bill, as I
w wore as a guarantee in perpetuity for the sums he had
aentiosed. It c, rteinly struck ham (the noble lord) that.
somewhat different

.e toasts' from
question upon
because by the
legislature of
of the church
-.a the sums they
recipients, namely,
of Scotland, and

_a that fora con-
resort in any caw
d by the clause
terms which he

'hen the t:ate

should pro-
England and of the
stuns et present
`or J;stributiou
1 then be ode-
,' thought the
sad chtlicelty,

Ay upon thew
It might bo
face, that t►ie
The whole tn.
deficiences in

case the sums arising from the sale of the clergy reserves
should not be enfikietst. That was the only we parlia-
ment had in contemplatiro, and thus was** only case
which they were at present °guided'. Oaths ether hand,
supposing that this charge remained apes the yedkunent et
Canada, end that it partook of the nature of a paystual en-
dowment, he thought that if they were to urge that °Wow
tion iu term., and to say that they would not epos te rig
paving of this bill unless they (the Canadian pedlnommc
&treed to the perpetual endowment of the two abarehos is
the extent of the sums he had named, it would excite vat,
°ponderable discontent, not only upon the grounds he led
stated, and which he thought were just ones, but oa the
ground that it had never before been mentioned. It was sat
mentioned in the despatch of Lord Grey, which stated he
thought the just and constitutional doctrine that this was a
local concern There was no mention of this particular pew.
vision, in the ntne manner, in the despatch et his nob=
friend the Duke of Newcastle. There had has no quer
two of this particular provision, so that he (Lysol/. Russell)
thought they could hardly propose to isiondons into this
bill a cormilsory clause enacting that, Mars the legislators
of Canada made a provision to the eateat he lad Insothimod,
they should not be at liberty to make mold= /se a dlihr-
ent disposition of the clergy reserves. Seeing dews dill-
coition and these objection', it had *tensed to the grew-
sent that the course freest from objection at the present
time would be to propose the omission of this clause and as
the same time to make a communication to Canada. The
Duke of Newc utle proposed therefore—and here he (the
noble lord) muu say bet ore he went further, that he (the
noble duke) had not been any party to this sort of engage-
mesa or understanding in 1840; but feeling with his col-
leagues the obligations it imposed upon them, the Duke of
Newcastle proposed to write to Lord Elgin, the Governor-
Neutral of Canada and state to him the difficulty—stating
he him that they should not propose any other terms
than those which they had already proposed ;
that those terms would be strieCy adhered to on their part ;
but desiring hon to lay the whole case before the pada-
sant of Canada, and stating to him the wish and expiator
goo of her Majesty's government that they would tusks
Nee provision. Ile (Lord J. Russell) did not know that
is a matter of such difficulty they could have taken my
batter course. At all events that appeared to them the
sours* which was the fairest to all parties, and which could
hest fulfil what they had undertaken. He thought it would
not be wise at the present moment to enact this clause in
the bill. Tie y proposed to place the matter entirely in the
heads of the Canadian 1. gislature, and they left the act in
that respect as it at 'present stood. After the commutator
bees he had referred to, the Canadian parliament would
be tatter able to decide upon the whole case, and be felt
confident that they would decide quite justly, and at the
same time take into consideration the expectations which
they had formed of them. (Cheers.)
Mr. MIALL bad listened to the statement of the noble
lord with surprise and commiseration. (Laughter.) The
noble lord in 1840, whatever might have been the nature of
the moron which he had himself introduced, was obliged
to receive a changeling end adopt it as his own. Although
his original conceptions might be fair and honest and good,
he was never able when they referred to the church to
carry them into effect. (Hear, hear.) In the present case
a bill had been introduced to give to the legislature of Ca-
nada the disposition of their clergy reserves. That bill
seemed to a considerable number of members on that siee
of the house to embody the principles of self-government
for the colonies in all matters which affected their purely
lead interests. The hill seemed to be clear and straight's'.
ward, and under that impression they had given the WSW
lord their hearty and zealous support, in comequeme of
which the second reading was carried by a mijority of as
votes. Ten days afterwards the noble lord gave the hews
the first intimation of his intention to make any alterations
in the measure. That evening they had beard an explaaa.
lion of the circumstances which had induced him to make
that alteration; and he (Mr. Miall) must confess that be
could not see anything in those circumstances which did not
apply when the bill was brought in. (Cheer) When the
noble lord stated his intentions at the commencement of the
session, aad when the Under Secretary for the Colonies
gavel an outline of the measure on its introduction end en
the second reading, it might have been perfectly fair, and
honest, and candid, to have stated that the bill wee in-
tended to give effect to the principle of self government in
the coloaies. at some considerable expense to the English
people. (Hear, hear.) The clause, as it stood, had re-
ference to a contingent liability created by the Bth section
of the act of 1810. That liability they had never been called
upon to make good; not a single teething had been paid,
the preemie of the clergy reserves having been amply suf-
ficient ; and, as the noble lord had well said, the guarantee
was a mere collateral security. It was proposed now agave
the Canadian parliament power to secularise
reserves, if they pleased, and if they did that,
the consolidated fund was to become chargeable to the
amount of 7,9001. for the clergy of the church of England
and 1,580/. for the clergy of the church of Seethed in pen
petuity. (Hear, hear.) That was to say, we were to pay
a certain amount of money to some power—the power that
teemed to bring so much pressure to bear upon the noble lord
—a sum which being capitalised would be equal to 300,0001.,
and upwards, in order that the Canadian legislature might
deal as it pleased with its own affairs. (Cheers) The right
hon. gentleman, the President of the Board of Trade, had
well observed the other night that there was no
interest that stood so much in need of protection
as the consolidated fund. When any other in-
terim was assailed those who had the guardianship
of it were always ready to repel all such attempts; hut
wh those of the church of England were in question
be observed that the consolidated fund seemed to be a mat
accessible and convenient instrumentality. (Cheers.) He
was as willing as any one could be to make a considerable
sacrifice, is order that the Canadians might enjoy what he
thought they were well entitled to, the right of self-
goverommt. (Hear, hear.) He would also increase that
sacrifice, in order that they might realise the of ject upon
which they had set their hearts—namely, to throw off that
ineumbratiee which had pressed so long upon the infant
energies, preventing their natural development, fostering
an odious spirit of exclusiveness, and setting to'
gather by the ears the teachers of different denominations.
To get rid of this ineumbranee he would submit to a huge
sacrifice, but he did not think that the people of this
country should be called on prospectively to sacrifice their
hard earnings, not to give free government to the Canadians,
but to satisfy the demands of sore party in this country
which did not make its appearance, but operated on the
mind of the government in order to obtain compromises
each as was now proposed, just as Mr. Brown and Mr.
Coppock compromised election matters. (Hear.) He could
not see-the object of leaving oat this clause, unless it was
that whatever was done of justice to the Canadians was
obliged to be purchased. In continuing the guarantee, the
object of the noble lord could hardly be directed to the
question of religion in Canada. Lord Grey admitted that
the maintenance of religious institutions was a purely local
question, and if the people of Canada were not to be
trusted with that they could not be trusted at all. At all
events it was somewhat anomalous that we should be giving
a perpetual guarantee to keep up a church in Canada which
they *odd not retain unless that was done—that is to my,
that the government and the church of England were de-
sirous that no sanction should be given to the minatory
principle. That principle he (Mr. Miall) felt bound always
to defand when it was attacked, and he put forward a few
facts relating to that principle as it existed in North Ame-
rica, whisk might serve as a guide to show what it
sleet isalsiones. The religious statistics of the United
Mahe had lately been published by authority, and it ap-
peased that the =usher of churches and edifices devoted he
religious worship was 36,000, or one to every 166
persons of the population. (Hear, bear.) The average
number of persons who could be accommodated in
them wee 384, and if they wore all filled at one
tints they would hold 13,849,896 persons, being mere
than one-half of the population of the United
States which was estimated at 24 millions. It was calcu-
lated that about half a population could attend church, and
here there was accimunadation for nearly two millions more
than that ealcalation supposed could go at once to religious
worship, The March property of the United States was
86,416,639 dollars or 17,283,3271. sterling. Dr. Bsird
stated in a statistical work that more than 3,000,0001. was
raised in 1850 for religions purposes, and since then the
sums raised fur those purposes had gone on in an increased
ratio in each year. In the United States there was no
state endowment, and there religious intolerance was
almost unknown. Sir Charles LyeU in hie semen of his
second visit to the United States said, "that after the
severe struggle for the presidency. between Mr.
Clay and Mr. Polk few Americans whom he
met could tell him to what denomination either
of them belonged, but he at last ascertained that one of
them was an episcopalian and the other a presbyterian;
but that want of knowledge did not arise from any indiffer-
ence to religion or want of regard for moral character, but
it was akar that in the choice of a first magistrate their
=Ms were :occupied by other considerations, and the
segotation of political from religions feeling, though far
lbws =owlet/ yet, was one of the healthy features of the
washing of the American system. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr.
Miall) =old not see why Canada should be less happy under
Ace some system. He intended to oppose the withdrawal of
the awe by the noble lord, because his did not see why a
len shwald he saddled in perpetuity on the people of this
sentry is order that Canada should have the Church of
Ragland, and he should take the sense of the house upon
the question. (Cheep )
Mr. V. SMITH hoped his noble friend would either not
repeal the clause till he heard whether the colonise would
take the gueraatee on themselves or not—or amend
the clause so as ta make the guarantee the same as when the
Dill was introdoo d. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. ADDERLIiY eg.eed with the right hon. gentleman
in much of his objection, but at She sane time he did not
agree that the measure should be Mord snail an answer was
received from the colonies.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER feared that
his bon. friend (Hr. Adderley) did not precisely under-
stand the position of the question. Ht wished distinctly
to repudiate tho idea of secret Influence or compromise
thrown out by Mr. Miall. The proposal was on. emanat-
ing from the government themselves, guided by their own
careful reflection on the subject it wee said they were
about to pension the churches of England and Scotland in
the colony perpetually out of the imperial revenues. He
did not believe the colonies were so extremely delicate
about receiving this kind of support; but he denied that
the omission of the clause would have that effect. He was
a party to the arrangement in 184 d, which was not merely
a compact between this country and the colony,
but one which WAS shared in by all parties in-
fluencing parliamentary deliberations. Distinct and
formal communications had taken place between the Arch-
bishop of Canterbury, the Duke of Wellington, Sir Robert
Peel, and the government of the day. The arrangement,
was that the church in the colony should surrender certain
rights; and the distinct and solo equivalent for that was the
guarantee wtich it was now sought to repeal. (Hear, hear.)
This was GA the proper time LA, dealing with that gua-

award. It c.rt,iinly struck him (the nob
thee gran were thereby placed in a somewl
illation from an Um other sums which were
the clergy reserves; but it was not a qua
'hub any immediate difficulty could arise, bet
wnd clause
hound they had secured and the le
Cristo were to secure to tie clergy of
of Eaglind and of the church of Scotland tt
y Welted during the lives of the Tenpin
',SOL to the clergy of the church of Si
7•70 W. to the clergy of the church of England.
119:e. NI rubric —lt i 59,0001.
LIM J. It UsSELL.-1 t was thus evident th
sideroble bun to c.me there would be no resort
guarantee which was provided by
!littho he get which we, introduced under the ten
'blamed. but with rigard to tho future, wl
Intl,: tome, when the legislature of Canada
th.‘t rgy of tic church of England
aur Sentlan should not receive the sun
kd a,
o, ni to, but that there should be another
gun -s, it waserident that there would t
1444 ',Poo the consolidated fund. Now, he •
hea wee one of considerable intricacy am
14 both I.:es had sated that no obligation lay
t'lity the, h mom fr wn the consolidated fund.
irened, and he aereght argued with great tag
"is but a collateral security. (Hear, bear.) Ti
t'4oll of the clam* was to provide lot the di