The Express.
London, England, 1848-05-20 00:00:00

IMPERIAL P ARM ANENT.

liOUSE OF LORDS.—FRIDAY, MAY 19.
Tke LORD CHANCRLLon tank his cost at 5 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
SECOND RE IDlNG.—Peciaarice Waterworks Bill.
THIRD READINa—MaI well'. Restitution Bill.
PUBLIC 110S/NEoL
THIRD READlNG.—lnsolvent Debtors' (India) Bill.
PETITIONS.—The Bishop of WINCIIEStER, from Woking.
Farnham, and other places, against the Jewish Heidititles
Lord HATHEKTON, from Newmastl-andeeLyne, Wedneahnry, and
New Ross. in favour of the Jewish DiwbilitKr intl.—The Itshop of
DURHAM, from several plane. in Cumberland, to the mime effect--
The Earl of YARBOROUGH, from several pl le. in the county of
Lincoln, against the sale of intoxicating liquors on the sahhoth.—Earl
of HIDDINGTON, from Dunbar, against the religious tests required
In the Scotch Universities. Lord !HANLEY, from certain
clergymen praying that the church might bare the power
of expressing its opinim with respect to any prisons
whom the crown might appoint to the office of bishop.—twl of
EGI.INTON, from Glasgow. Palley, and other places, against the
Registration (*Wand) bilL and Scotch Marti ore Bill.—Earl of
ELLESMERE, from several plmes praying fur a shortening 01 the
duration of parliaments.—Marquis of LANSDOWNE, from Paialey,
pr eying for an alteration in the mode of rating and nasewarnent, under
the poor-laws; also from several lodges of Odi Follows, in favour of
the bill for legalising Odd Fellows !sewn., ; also from 41 baptist am.
gregation, praying that the house ar old take means to the
worship of Juggernaut.—E.l ORE Y,frorn the North Riding of York.
shire, Durham, Northumberl iwt, Nei...soh:mai-Tyne, Norwich,
Yarmouth, AOlllll, Dartmouth, Halifax, Nottingham Penh, Hies-
gite, I fampstead, Margate, and a great many other paces, in favour
of the Jewish Uwhilitis bill.
CHURCH BENEFICES.
The Bishop of LLANDAFF ruse, mamma to notice, " to
move an humble address to tier Majesty, praying that her
Majeety will be graciously ph aced to consent to the intro-
duction of a bill for limiting the time during which church
benefices in the gilt of the crown may be kept vacant." The
present privilege of the crown was extremely injuries:is in ill
operation. In the case which he was going to refer to there
MAR no charge of unsound doctrine or iminorality; hat the
evil was a great one. There were many parts of Wales in
which the Welsh language was still see ken, and particularly
so in Glamorganslore, where its almost every parish
the Welsh as well as the English language was spoken ;
and a mere learning of the language from • dictionary and
a grammar, like a schoolboy, would never qualify a man to
IN, the pastor of a parish. A gentleman called Paynton had
been appointed by the Lord Chancellor to a parish in his
diocese—(Llanell), we understood)—who did not thoroughly
understand the Welsh language. He wrote to Mr. Paynton '
and told him it would be necessary that he should be examined
in the Welsh language, and the result reported to beim. He
also desired the rural dean, who lied recited in that neigh-
bourhood for 30 years, to ascertain whether it was necessary
that the minister of the parish should understand Welsh,
and his answer was, that the people said they were all
Welsh ; and he was.of opinion that it was a clear case fey an
examination. A memorial had also been presented to him
(the bishop) signed by the churviiwardeue and many of the
inhabitants of the pa- ish, expressing a wish to have a cler-
gyman conversant with the language. Mr. Paynton declined
to he examined, and said thot an he had several times
preached in Welsh, he hoped that would be considered suffi-
meat. A Mr. Griffith, a Oergyotan in the neighbourhood,
who understood the Welsh lauguiwe well, agreed to ex-
change with Mr. Paynton/or the living which he held, if
the Lord Chancellor would accede to it. He (the bishop),
however, wrote to the Lord Chancellor in October last, hut
did not get en answer even from his private recrctery. He
had, under the circumstances, declined to institute Mr.
Paynton, but the living being in the gift of the crown there
was no lapse, although in any other case where a living
was not in the gist of the crown, it could not remain vacant
for more than au months. He had taken an opportunity
since of expressing to the Lord Chancellor his view of the
case, but without effect ; and things remained as they were
before. In January last, the living of St. Andrew, one of
the brat is joiht of income in his diocese, also in the
gift of the crown, became eanarit For waut f a good resi-
dent clergyman during the last twenty yeers, the congrega-
bon in the church had been reduced to only about tire per-
sons out of a population of 500. The last minister who
was appointed to the living did not understand the language,
nod the only remedy he (the bishop) had, was to compel him
to appoint a curate who understood the Welsh language. He
wrote tothe Lord Chancellor when he found the living was
about to become vacant, to urge the neceseity of the appoint-
ment of a clergyman who understood the Welsh language, but
be had not received • reply, and that was nearly five months
ago. The other, day, h a gentleman from Kent
called on him, and, having used the name of the Lord Chan-
cellor, asked if he (the eishop) would object to induct him
to the living. lie found, however, that he did not
know the Welsh language, and although he offered
to employ a curate who did, he (the bishop) could not con-
sent to violate the rule vehicle he had laid d iwn. The
form of the presentation by the crown was in the most
peremptory terms. He could net, however, believe that the
honoured mother of the Prince of Wales would give her
eanctioa to any measure which offered an indignity to a
bishop, and which was must offensive and insulting to the
People of his diocese. He had pat his motion in a form pray-
' ing her Majesty to take means to prevent the recurrence of
' such cases ; but be idea hoped that some remedy might be
foutid for the present one. Unless some alteration were
made in the mode of dispensing the church patronage in the
gift of the crown in Wales, the whole country would be
ringing with complaints. It was a growing evil which called
for a public remedy ; and although he might not press his
motion to a division, he hop- d it would lead to the ado on
of some measure which' ti
would prevent the recurrence of the
mil of which Inc complained.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said the right rev. prelate's
motion sought to propose a remedy for that which he consi-
dered an evil in the existing state of the law; hut his speech
had nothing whatever to do with the subject, for it related
more or less to a knowledge of the Welsh language by
persons who had been appointed to livings in his dioosee.
The ri :ht rcv. prelate wanted to limit the inue during which
church !Wangs in the gift of the crown might be kept vacant.
Why, the first living to which he had referred had become
Taunt in June, and a clergyman who had been appointed to
it presented himself to the right rev. prelate to be instituted
in July. The second living became vacant in January, and
in April the party to whom it was offered tendered himself
to the right rev. prelate for institution. By an extraordi-
nary combination of error, the right rev. prelate would in.
vade the prerogative of the crown and deprive parliament of
its privileges. He proposed that the crown should be
limited in the time of presentation, which would be an in-
vasion of its prerogative; and it was now the privilege of any
member of that house to lay on the table a measure for
the purpose contemplated by the right reverend pee-
-1 ite, and proceed to a certain stage, without the
consent of the crown. It was also the pretogative
of the crown to dissent from a bill in any stage.
(The average time that had elapsed between the lapse of
livings that bad fallen in and their filling up by nomination
of fresh incumbents, was three months. There were, as the
right rev.. prelate said, more than 70' livings in the gift of
the Chancellor, but half of them were below 2001. a year in
value, and great difficulty existed in finding persons qualified
who would accept of suck email livings. Whilst he was
ready to admit the great merits of the right rev. prelate, he
must say that he thought he was mistakes in the view he
took of the question. He did nut mean to say that the right
rev. prelate had practised a surprise upon him in the present
.see; but he certainly had given no notice of hiiintention
to enter upon the general subject which he had discussed.
The question of a knowledge of the Welsh language
being essential for the incumbent of Welsh livings had
often been mooted, and there were a number of
great authorities who stated it to be their opinion that it
was not an essential, but on the contra. y. Ile had always
been anxious to r.ce ive advice trim a bishop of a diocese on
the subject o' appointments in the church; but when he
found, as in the case of the right rev. prelate, that a very
strong opinion had already bees, formed as to the mode in
which the exercise of the prerogative of the crown ought to
be exercised, then it behoved. him to be extremely cautious
how he entertained any ouch advice. The noble and learned
lord then entered into a statement of the facts relative to
'he refusal of the Bishop of Llandaff to induct
the gentleman nominated to the living of St. An-
drew's, from which it appeared that the bishop refused
to institute any one who was not a Welshman into any
living within his Welsh ditese. With respect to Mr.
Sampson, he denied that there was any relationship between
himself and that reverend gentleman, and the assertion was
pure invention that Mr. Sampson was his relative. He had
appointed that gentleman, on condition that he was ac-
quainted with the Welsh language, but when he demanded
to be examined in Welsh before the bishop, the right rev.
prelate refused, and nothing w.aild satiety him but to have
the appointment bestowed upon a Welshman. With respect
to the letter which the right rev. prelate had addressed to
him relative to the vacancy at St. Andrew's, it only
amounted to the fact that the right rev. prelate had
two or three candidates who knew W. Ish, whom
he wished to have appointed, but certainly he (the
Lord Chancellor) did not think, whatever might be
the respect be had for the office of the bishop, that the right
rev. prelate ought to be allowed to interfere with the exercise
of the prerogative of the crown. The right rev. prelate had
certainly done as he had promised, and brought the subject
before the House of Lords, but in doing su ho had been
obliged to bring himself before the house, sad now the only
question was whether his doing in had been more to the
disadvantage of the patron than of biruselt. The other in-
stance brought forward by the right rev. prelate was that of
a gentleman who had been appointed to a small living in
Wales which fell vacant in June last ; the right rev. prelate
had refused to institute him on the ground that he wan not
sufficiently well versed in the Welsh language, but he (the
Lord Chancellor) begged to recall to the right rev. pre-
late's memory a letter written by him in the year 1838,
wherein he mentions with great praise the exertions
of the very gentleman in question, admitting that he
was well quilified to officiate in the Welsh language, and to
preach in that language, and stating that the rev. gentleman
had performed his duties satisfactorily for many years in his
diocese: and, yet, when this same gentleman presented him-
self for institution before the right rev. prelate, the latter re-
fused, on the ground that he WWI not qualified to officiate in
the Welsh language. From that time to the present he had
taken no steps in the matter, but had awaited the results of
the moreedings which the right rev. prelate had expressed
his intention to resort to, of the propriety of which their
lordships would now be qualified to juege.
The Bishop of ST. DAVID'S entertained no doubt of the
determination of the noble and learn. d lord to exercise his
patronage in the most conscientious manner, and, indeed, ha
was able to speak to this fact from his own knowledge. The
question before the house, however, was in no degree mixed
up with that larger one to which the noble and learned lord
alluded ; namely, the expediency of extinguishing the Welsh
language. To this he must my he was entirely opposed : any
attempt to do so in respect to the church service in Wales
would, in hie opinion, only tend to dove the whole popula-
tion of Wales into the arms of tome other religious sect. It
was absolutely essential far the well being of the church in
t
min:::mnilhalticenohisaennrhethaladywovieeiertcltddeeeryh4PaimWmad inPtdollieWrarlrratngoeftdthuthhaagemtactore7Qaeintarldftbh:yitlinv.bemy:gOellatf:htlialol'hugthththabheceitretacadt°eu7el
Poillied, out by his right rev. friend.