The Express.
London, England, 1848-06-10 00:00:00

timber duties. Anoti er ground used to be the cost of vi t>
tualling ; but this ground was now removed, and our ship
could be victualled as cheaply as those of any other country.
lie avowed there was scarcely any particular, since the re-
cent changes in our tariff, in which we were not as advanta-
geously situated as was the foreign shipowner, and there
were many respects in which we had decidedly superior
facilities for fitting out ships. The evidence of Sir James
Stirling had been spoken of as hasty, incomplete, and incor-
rect ; he bad closely followed Sir James Stirling's evidence,
from a sole desire fur information, and he felt bound to de-
clare his conviction that the entire of that evidence was well-
considered, judicious, end scrupulously accurate in its details.
It was to him a matter of great surprise that burdened as
English ships were they had been able to compete with
foreigners. But once let the existing impediment, be re-
moved and the impulse given to British enterprise—both
commercial and maritime industry would be increased in a
tenfold degree. For all these reasons he should support the

- „
reso utMns.
Admiral BOWLES, as an officer of the navy, feared the
house was legislating rashly, and that befure long the
country would repent it.
Mr. COBDEN said he should not follow the noble lord in
his arguments as to free trade generally. Ile and the noble
lord started from two entirely different points. The noh'e
lord is as for protesting the few at the expense of the many,
whilst he was not for taxing any class at all. All he would
say of free trade was, that the country was satisfied with it
as far as it went. lie did not say satisfied with the present
state of commerce, hut that was attributable to quite different
Musts. The legislature having dealt with free trade in corn,
sugar, and other articles of first necessity now approached
the'shipping; and how, Int him ask, could the partial protec-
tion now given to this branch of industry be justified ? If he
had been strong in his arguments against protection
to corn, he was doubly so in respect to ships.
The agriculturists urged the excessive burdens on land
and on their productive sources. The shipowner lied no
such burdens. The sailor got all his articles of consumption
duly free, and ships paid neither county nor poor rates, nor
amused taxes. They were, therefore, in a better condition
to compete with the foreigner than the English landowner.
But they must go into the principle of free trade. What
did 4 meant If it meant anythiug, it was the importation
of a hooter quantity of commodities into the country—corn,
for instance. But they could not move a quarter of corn
from abroad without resorting to shipping; therefore,
the increased importation of corn must increase the
number of ships. Then, again, it was said that
than who built the ships could not compete with
the foreigner in point of cheapness. But it had been
satisfactorily proved that taking quality for quality
a ship could be built and rigged more cheaply in England
than abroad. He did not speak of the American ships which
were on Lloyd's register for four years only, but of such
ships as stood their ground on the register for 12 years.
People talked of a ship as if, like a box, it was made of wood
only. Why when the wood work of the ship was complete
half the outlay only was made. The rigging, sails, anchors,
cables, and stores all were to be added, and they were to be
had at a 'ar cheaper rate in England than anywhere else.
There was the evidence of the impeder of Lloyd's at Sunder-
land to refer to on this point, who stated that a ship could
he built of Dantzic oak and equipped cheaper at
that port than at Dant zic ; and when he was
at that place he had liked a merchant there if this was true
which he was informed was the case. (Hear.) The ques-
tion of wages was another element to be Wien into consider
ation. The American workman got more wages, it was
true, but then he worked more hours, and hi. skill was
superior to the Enelisti artisan, therefore, though he cot
more money, the American shipbuilder did not pay him
more in proportion to the value of his work than the Euglish
shipowner. It was also said, and truly he believed, that the
American ships performed their voyages mere quickly than
English ones, and that the English masters of vessels did not
take so much care of their cargoes as foreign shipmasters
did. That certainly did present a difficulty, but it was to be
overcome. Let him take into consideration the characters of
the English masters and the seamen of which so much had
been said and written. He could not say anything of his
own knowledge on this subject, but both Mr. 0. F. Young
and the late Mr. Sosmes, had stated that English eeamen
were very disorderly. Mr. Brooker, the English vice-consul
at Cronatadt, who had resided at that port for 59 years, also
told him in September last, that in the July previous he had
had no less than 61 squabbles between masters and seamen
of English vessels to settle in his counting-bouse ; and he
showed him a circular, issued ie July, 1817,b, the governor
of the town, warning the English seamen against the con-
sequences of their riotous, drunken, avid violent behaviour,
and of the serious consequences of striking a police soldier.
Therefore it most be taken for granted that Mr. Brooker
had confirmed the statements m de :expecting the conduct
of English seamen in foreign ports. lie had never
accused that clips of being given to robbery, but the question
was, were they ineuberdinate and given to drink when in
foreign ports, and he believed they were. Was it therefore
wise to lavi.h compliments and praises on them in that
house, instead of telling them of their (sults? From the
evidence he had read, he was led to believe that the Englith
seamen were more addicted to drink than the sailors in the
Meditioranean ports; that they were less qualified in point
of education and information than the seamen of the
northern perte, and that in both these particulars they were
inferior to the American sailors. The best way, therefore,
to serve them was to tell them of their faults, and so to
amend them. But with all his faults the British Bailor was
possessed of natural qualifications which rendered him
superior in the hour of danger or difficulty to the
seamen of other nations. His courage, re omptnesa, and
presence of mind during a gale or under unexpected circum-
stances, were such that if his moral qualities could only be
mode to equal his mental end physical powers, he would be
able to compete with the best sailors of the best nations.
He did not wish to have protection removed from British
shipping for the purpose of reducing the wages of the sailors.
Give them the same qualities as were possessed by the Ame-
ricans, and they would make better voyages, and conse-
quently be cheaper at higher wages than they now were.
Rot the goes' ion the house had to consider was whether
they would continue to lay a prohibition on the carriage of
commodities from foreign countries. The manufacturers
were entitled to get their supplies in the cheapest way they
cou'd, whereas the operation of the navigation laws was to
prohibit the free importation even of manure, for
if bones or oilcake same in certain vessels they
were not allowed to enter English ports for consumption.
The farmers' friends ought, therefore, to do away with these
restrictions. He bad, he confessed, been much surprised by
the noble lord's attack on his friend Mr. Porter's statistics ;
for if there was one department in which the public had con-
fidence it was in that presided over by Mr. Porter, whose
return, so much cavilled at, was entitled to the utmost credit
for its accuracy. But the cause for this attack must be
looked for in the feet that no statistics could be found to
favour the protective system. lie was prepared even to go
so far as to say if the English ships cannot compete in the
market with foreign ships let the latter have all the trade.
The cheapest market was the best. But let him not be
mistaken on this point. lie believed that Englishmen
were better fitted to be sailors than any other nation
on earth. England was great in her manufactures,
but she was greater in her maritime adventure. What the
camel was to the Arab of the desert, or the horse to the
Tartar, the ship was to the Englishman. It had been urged
that there were very few petitions in favour of abolishing the
navigation laws. The same was true of petitions in their
favour, only 25,000 having"petitioned out of 1,500,000 sailors
who were to be thrown out of bread by their abolition. The
true reason why petitions against the navigation laws had
not been presented was, that those laws were included by the
millions who had petitioned for free trade in that policy Ile
should be glad to see a navigation act pas'ed as short as that
made by Lord Dalhousie for India, which consisted of four
lines. He, however, preferred the proposed measure to that
suggested by the right hon. gentleman, the member for Ox-
ford, who wished to have one framed on the basis of ,
reciprocity. The right hon. gentleman ought to remember
that reciprocity was already promised on the part of America
and Prussia. Now, sue word as to the naval part of the
question. He heard with regret the constant reference
made to physical-force arguments which were so much con-
demned when urged by the working classes. (Oh.) Ile
must say he heard with regret the boasting language re-
specting England's naval supremacy. He must say that
those Acosta were generally uttered after dinner, and there-
fore they might be the result of a little extra excitement.
("Oh," and groans.) The abolition of the navigation laws
would not affect the naval condition of Great Britain.
But was this a time to be always singing " Rule Britannia."
(" Hear, hear," and laughter.) If hon. members opposite
had served with him upon the committee on the army, navy,
and ordnance estimates, they would have a just sense of the
cost of that song. (Hear, hear) His right hon. friecd the
member for Manchester (Mr. H. Gibean) had, in the course
of the discussion, been a good deal attacked for the sentiment
with which he concluded his speech the other night. In that
sentiment he (Mr. Cobden) entirely sympathised. His right
hon. friend had not asserted, as had been supposed, that this
country was about to enter upon the millennium of universal
peace; but he stated that they should treat wars as the
normal state of this country. His right hon. friend bad con-
tended, and he (Mr. Cobden) &treed with him, that this
country was in favour of peace ; and if this was doubted, let
but a word be said in this house to indicate that they
were going to war, and then the full force of public
opinion against it would be felt. (Hear, hear.) The con-
stant assertion of warlike maritime supremacy was calcu-
lated to provoke kindred passions in other nations, while, if
I Great Britain announced the doctrines of peace, she would
invoke similar sentiments from the rest of the world. With
(kis view he was anxious, while prepared to maintain every
Just right for the English people, to identify this nation with
pam, and. by removing the obstacles which the navigation
laws presented to free trade and freedom of intercourse be.
tween nations, to blend cations together in interest, and
' thereby place one of the most potential obstacles in the way
of war. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI said the noble lord the first minister of
the crown bad been accustomed sometimes to teach those
who attempted to defend the cause of protection—a cause
which he (Mr. Disraeli) and those near him had not jet
deserted—that they were reasoning in a vicious circle. The
noble lordhod used to say that if the interests they hadformerly
advocated, operated to the injury of another interest, that
other interest might, in its turn, by some exceptionable le-
gislation, operate to the cost of its neighbours, and thus, as
the noble lord well expressed it, they were moving in a
vicious circle. Interest after interest had received the ad-
vantages, of exceptional legislation; but the result was that
the multitude had been injured. The house was now placed
in a new vicious circle. In this debate new interests had
been attacked, and it was said that, as every other interest
had been injured, they must go round the vicious circle, and
that, after having pursued a course of theoretical legisla
tion, which had terminated in so much practical misery, it
would be against reason, justice, candour, and fairness, not
to deal out to every other interest the same merciful iaterpo-
sition which had produced such beneficent results. (Hear,
hear, and laughter.) The hon. gentleman who
had, just addressed the house (Mr. Cobden) had