The Express.
London, England, 1849-02-02 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 2, 1849,

dem of their stinted amity. (Hear, beer.) • meat
glpidease =deism (Sees, beer.) Hensemer. bee Majesty
foes bees grimed to feel mehhedset se b=ang onabied M dote
act " Imes is the math and meat of Hermselbe 'emending
parties bus mossented to • anspesien of gimee kg due
peso el associating terms of peen* Mew, deem spsemiaso
are he me cm edam% mace diploma* than peritementory.
r, hear.) Who sea the gestooding parties be ? Are
hea, Majesty's dike ? Where en they ? Dim heard
MN is the earth of Eggespe there bee been • nespension of
gme, with ref=ine, to • Mato to wheoe peekkm I
big jam jeer the hewer el calliag attendee. I mesa
the valises mil I Wirt" indemitable kiegdom ef Deniaerk ;
ami I believe that had Haat bees fog that sempeades llama
the 'gantry wield a .w enjoy aa the committeemen of peace.
But then the empegoisa et some ia the sesta of Earepe le at
peeetat a a.yetery respectieg whisk we may probably be ea-
%kissed by some amber of the government. Has there
lose a suspend= of arms between Lear • acd.Piedraoet ?
Tere have beta rumours, but perhaps we shall receive kw-
lbw inlormadem on that head. Has there burs a anspession
of erste humus his Helium the Pope and the Prince of
Chaim ? (A laugh.) I thoeght at first that the
simpuisient of arms must have takes piens between
mons other pewees is the south of Europe, bad I
mat eatecatered some piragraphe of melt obscurity
that I was toettly at • loss to annex any ides to them. We
ere told that " the hostilities carried on in the Island of
Badly were attended with cirmunetuess ma revolting, that
deo Brom and French admirals wets impelled by motives of
Ineasaity to interpose, and to atop the forth effusion of
bleed." Now are we to undrastend that the effusion of
blood mos stayed without any instructions from her Ma
jesty's coverage. at ? ( l'rotectiontet o emu) Is the poly
of the Quin of Inglaud to be directed by a French
nivel ? (Ehnen) lan see nothing more prepoairous,
I should have added nothing more impossible, had I not
reeollette4 a remarkable debate in another place list session,
la which direct inquiries ware made to the ministry on this
point, and m to the principles whim h bad guided the conduct of
VW British admiral. I remember that • most equivocal answer
was give* to the peron who made that inquiry, but I could
ant Institut that alter nth inquir7 the Brit sh or Frer.ch
Wades's, riding at anchor with certain open kitten of credit,
without tastrutione, acting on their own discretion, could
intorfete to seat rreccedings of the gravest character hetween
• sovereign and kis subjects. (Hear, hear.) If this be the
aureneion of arms in the south if Europe, on which we are
coigratulating the throne, I, for onr, most demur to the
eonorstulation. But, it I proceed, I do not dad much hies
trades light. " I have availed myself of the interval that
obtained to propose, in conjunction with France,
to the King of Naples an arrangement eakulated to produce
a permanent settlement of affsin in Sicily. The negotiation
ea these matters is still pending." Now, in the first plus,
I have no idea who the King of Naples is. (Laughter.)
Possibly some member of the government m y have crested
a new sovereignty out of recent diplomatic confusion and
political change. For aught I know, some new power may
have arisen. (Hear, and a laugh) But I should as soon
have expected to have had a speech from the Queen of Lon-
donola that the King of the Two Similes should not be no-
tice& (Hear, hear.) Are we to have any more details
to prepare us for the chi gee impending ? Negotia.
dons ate still pending." Negotiations? Has his Ma.
July the King of the Two Seethes agreed to any septa.
*es, to any suspension of arms t Has he entered into
any mediations, or consented to set under the itiluence of
the Engiiila and French admirals? Them are things re.
epectiog which we have a right to a frank, explicit, and in-
telligent statement, in-toad of a statement from which it
does not appear that any one is negotiating except our-
selves. Then we are told that it is the constant desire of
our sovereign to maintain the most friendly relations with
all foreign powers, but we are not told as generally that all
foreign states are equally anxious to maintain friendly re.
lations with tie. (Hear, hear.) It would to h'gbly setts.
factory es know if her Majesty has n t allies lett, or if the
science of diplomacy has so progressed that there is
not a single power left to address her in terms of
amity, or to whom she might reply in the same
spirit. That would seem to be the case from the unsatisfac-
tory document to which we are called upon to give our a&
basics. (Hear, rear) lam not surprised that government
have titled it necesemy to address parliament in terms so
ample and so vague, so unsatisfactory, and so obscure upon
the foreign relatior s of the countey. Since we met about
this tims lost year there have been comederable changes on
the continent of Europe, and England has taken a very
active pert in the transletims which hare occurred. Tao
malt hes been extremely satisfactory. (1 rooked charts.)
Look at the Eats of France, look at the rive of the whole
men of Europe, the hires!, must f iveured, most civilised
rrl dad in Fran co a re2ublic without republicsns _ i •
irmany, as empire without an emperor. (LOllll
cheer) lead this is prorreg. (Loud protectionist cheers.)
This the perannimet achievement of universal suffrage—
this the high political consummation of the sovereignty of
the people. (lieu, bear.) These are the oonatitutioul
models, the political exemplars that are to fashion out a
future for free and famous England. (Hear.) It would be
sheer absurdity were there not circumstances connected
with it calculated to create terror. There ranted but one

Weiist.t to make the incantation perfectly infernal, and
that wee to employ these new governments in mediating
with other powers. It was the very saturnalia of diplo-
macy, the orgies of politics. (Hear, bear) I tad
to bower LW year of warning the house against
mediation, sad I thick the result has proved that a member
perhament hie a right to object to these mediatians, to
the MOM by which the am to be carried into effort, and
peatigal-ely the parties between whoa they are to take
w~lneces.~ Leek at the state of Dareauk. Yoe have had
hiestde, suffering enameree, a great interval of time, and
yet notbinst hea been dom. You were called in by Den-
mark to fulfil your engsgewats natter • treaty respecting
the obligations of which then could be no doubt. Had you
acted with Ammer, you might ham terminated the dia-
pason= proceedings then occurring. What were
they ? An an and iadependent kingdar, at-
Melted by an assembly sidles in • German town.
Why, I look upon the Assembly of Frankfort as merely a
German romance. (Laughter.) But Hannan romances
may be very pernicious articles ; end nothiog could be more
aajid, more violent, mare wish, (has the proceedings of
the !widget Aneseady. The English government might
lave had tai aid of Frame in terminating them. I should
not have bean impeded if say government bad referred
acting with the Trench medlars! government. I knew it
had no root awns the people, sad weld pass away. But
our government did retogaim it, although only provinces!.
and the mowed they roterdeed it, It kIL (Laughter )
Why was not Lash Blau reeogaised ? I understand we
refused ; end immediately Aar we resognised the editor of
the Notional, and the WSW he empleyed to auppirt
But their ambusader was Iwo kat • fortnight, and in that
fortnight we might have saved Drama*. But I defy any
man to tell me what our mediation has effected, or how we
have aided the parties between whom we mediatised.
But if our sedum towards Denmark was indefensible, our
deportment town= Austria was absolutely unintelligible.
On the Redraws: of dimendems between the government
and the people, a sensed to be mowed here that the state
of Austria meat be me of absolute decay and hopelets con-
vulsion. Our 'mediation, It has been mid. was proffered to
Austria—esr mediation between her sovereign end his
revolted is But who invoked that mediation ? What
evidence is then to show that the government solicited it!
Did the impwar ark it? (Hear, hear.) But when
was Our mediati in finally interposed in a manner
that might have iodised one to suppose that Austria was
wiped oat of the map of nations? At that moment, sir,
when it was rendered nameeseary by the attitude which the
emperor bed nonmed. She did that, sir, which
she bad Wen dine beim, in better and nobler periods of her
history, when her impseal power was assailed and perilled
by powerful hostile combinations against her from within
and without. She vindicated, again, her own grandeur and
her own strength with a vigour and e Peet which has signally
manifested the meter and the profundity of her resources.
(Hear.) She asserted her authority in the eyes of Europe
in a manner to make it more than ever respected by other
nations. A short but vigorous campaign and a brilliant vic-
tory attained by her arms had already solved the questions
on which our mediation was to be proffered when the offer
of these services arrived. I mention this circumstance only
to show how very satisfactory the proposition of her Ma-
jesty's ministers for a cessation of arms must have been to
the victorious party.. Why, air, Austria had already re-estab-
lished herauthoritym her own dominions and entirely neon-
quered Lombardy, as she speedily afterwards reinstalled her
authority in her own septet. (Cheer.) Well, sir, look
next at the third ma el mediation in radii her Majesty's
ministers have mad, Leek at Naples, gad the condition
at this moment siia We pieties in whose behalf you have
audiatiesd. The hies of Ws_ having taken arm is sea-
sequence et the seek et hie NeMm subjects bad made vest
Epantie's., and efts awe severe fighting between
Majeaty's !Veen ea them Mike Sicilians wm about to
We pommies if the idea when it was determined that he
should not pressed Imam with his deaiga—under no ate
thority—for what appellee le the matrery, and fore
no reason
whatsoever exempt at the pleasure of th French
&duke& ea our ea. Batpea wilk siva to the island of
Sift the keg did gain his eldest. Ome city alone con-
Ikea to eat Naiad him, end ems that (I be-
lieve I am jailed saying) we ja em the pant of
giving up the oenceinary mated and sarreadering
to his liakety's emu whoa the fleets Wawa le prevent
the aurae if that authority over • revolted plass of his
states, ti the ebstraiss of which it wee sway the meet
questionable apenthe at that time that oar lag dual be
*Vasty. Bet ark the results of your ill-stanassedlinees.
Two 9dla tely flow from them that are
most Z=Lassied. :eat fatal, because they an mock-
mile:nom ; yea deceive beds pasties whom yea Whet to
litew=ea mean k the whale Nampo Mang of
Tear mediation is UMW' 11, dipiewaeis
weeiesee end they who have candid in it lad
sairileed through the reliance Iky have plata
gm yea. Instead of ridding the ilenkm,bewever, who
bat our your bawd*. might NO this ham bees
ressadied se the Wig, yew have deedmil them When
Ywr asekeppeared ia Me bays( N'A isd aftenrards in the
waters einlay, the Elk
us espoused
tasteease ; sad were drabness erasked
to persist in
allow; but yea leaved them as yea had already
wired the Meg of Ifewha. (Seer, hear.) The d•plorable
Maus of Ship niat din petals in Nagles and in Sicily '
mill tint ham been mew in asisteam but for your media-
tion. The hem salmi then referred to the again of La
Plata,bsit which a ionthaa six diplomatic agents
W employed ammeesdolly. He proceeded :
4:11 aft. lipiseistis meats, in ant, there memo to be no
ist dtheir dodo", They Nadause a the mysterious dynasty of the post,
la
Audios maw still messe
emenda" imieed—dat that is d%
nay the say an
don't ever pram te de. (Lighter ter sad awing.
runthis is the masa, piehipsor they e't MU aim
AIM. the asks el the Plata.Whims
WO *sagely mama the observation theyer
who ham so loudly inveighed In their damage

apse limatial sheen spinet the eerie: of war dishes*
depertaient. This was • ems that surely slight have
flamed a setZikaintheir heeds for a very good tract or
) IJakirtunately for there, however,
Fa
emateilisesellinas ere the only victims, u I have ben:
She mod, of this enessiens conditeen of ear relations with
the shifts of the Plata ; sad side may ameetat for their for-
hthemies em the subject of all these appointments. Her
=ninielses MM. her Majesty to deliver a speech in
in whisk the sovereign almost admits that she
office; yet, ia the same speech her
Majesty is made to deelan that in this posture
of stein she lest caused the estimates foe the
pablie nuke and establi !meta to be reduced to the
lowest male. It is moat extraordinary that the noble lord
should have "furled to this house no explanation, no tater-
nation of what his government may beta poster/oneself, the
mums that hive determined her Majesty at the moment
she has so allies, to direct these reductions. i beg to read
this rangraph ;—"I have disected the estimates foe the ser-
vice of the pear to be framed with the most anxious atten-
tion to a wise emoomy ;" and I especially sell your emotion
sir, to that while moose& it :—" The present aspect of
affairs has sashed me to make larte reduetioce in the esti-
mates of last 'W." (Cheers.) Bit the estimates of last
Jens were 'inputted " with the strictest regird to ecocomy."
It; is strange that this, of all cues, should be selected as that
in which the position of affairs allowed this course to be
taken and these further redaction to be made. In what
consists the difference—whit the superiority—of the pre-
sent occasion over any in the last session ? Are they only
temporary causes is considerrioe of which so important a
seen is to be taken ? Is this auspitious rate of affairs al-
ined from the contemplation of the still existing disturb
awes and turbulent spirit prevailing is Ireland ? Is it the
condition of revolution of which I read In mother pan
graph as prevailing in the Paajaith ? Is it that pro-
m/mg aspect of general tranquillity which is pre-
sented at the present mamma by the spectacle of
two millions of armed men dispersed over every country of
Europe in battle array,—is that the improved present posi-
tion of Oran which enables—which authorises her Majesty's
ministers to make still further redactions in the economical
pace estimates of last year? (Loud cries of "hear, hear.")
Sir, when we last met here her Mejesty hod " allies"—
: (theters)—not merely allies, but sovereigns of indent king-
dom,. who had been her guests in her eon regal castle. It
was however then thought neemary that the noble Secretory
for Foreign Affairs should coutribute hie quota to the royal
speech by a diplomatic touch or two: and accordingly there
was some mention, in that of last year, of • treaty of some
kind or other wi'h &petty South American state' about elh'ch,
I will venture to say. not six gentlemen in th s house had
ever before heard. Rat what have been the effects of our
policy in the interval, which has so changed the force of an
needing rates ? Even the Chancellor of the Exchequer
himself will hardly contend that they are indicated by any
such signal improvement of the revenue as was anticipred
at the present paled ; and we shall look Is vain for the
verification of the hopes that were founded on our extended
commerce with India, which was then (it was prod eted)
" tranquillised for ever." (A laugh.) In virtue of their
pleasing anticipations, ministers ease forward at that time,
not with prop Worm for reduced intimates, but demands for
iicreand expenditure on our ostabliehments. How do you
reconcile that eendoet with yourcoadu -t on the present oc
cation ? What has become of your anticipations of Loomed
prices from which our manufacturing interest were
this year to derive profim to the extent of millions
more than in the preceding one? Yon cannot, with any
degree of candour or fano', call upon me or other h n.
members to support the address in answer to the speech
from the throne, and yet withhold from us ell information,
nr the grounds you have far the directions which her Ma-
icily has issued touching the retina*,' and for her Ma
jesty's view of tho " present aspect of affairs," which has
enabled her to issue them. It is to compel the production
I of this obstructed information that I, sir, shall move the
amendment to the motion of the noble lord (11. Vane), with
which I mean to conclude. (Hear, hear) Sir, my own
anxiety for retrenchment is not Inferior to that of any gen-
tleman who has:sat in this house since I have had the hon
our of knowing it, but I em sure, no gentleman who sheen
this side of the hones will ever vote for a great measure of
retr ncbmcnt that is not ba•el on nue ao-olute ergency
sris:ng oat of the circumstances of the tato a, and clearly
and honestly stated to parliament, instead of being grounded
on some miserable pretext, or urged on by soma species of
infiue:.ce, which, in the present ease, is no. yet apparent to
tho house. lout of all do I believe that gentlemen on this
side of the house will be induced to g:va their support to
measures of so-called r retrenchment teat shall have a va-
lency to impair the strength and resources of this country.
I carnet think that the house—l cannot believe that her
Majesty's ministers are converts to the new popetual mem
theocy. For my part, if the hon. member for the West
Riding of Yorkshire, or any other bon. or right h,13. geatle-
I man, can devise a EMIRS by which his constituents, and
mine, and those cf every other member can be relieved from
the burden of the heavy taxation they now feel, I can have
I no objection to such a proposition. But where are the ten
to be envoi from the annual expenditure to be
taken from ? I think we have a right to "Copulate for the
sources from which so enormous a deScit shall be supplied.
Quraus Mostar sb liib fonieentto drachma,
divitnedidermat, &minium patent.
So, sir, I my, let the hon. gentlemen rain his 5,000,0001.
or has 10,000 COOL from that immense product that
California gold region, which the hon. gentleman and
his friends so confidently predicted would be our's on the
repeal of the cola lam. (Laughter and cheers.) They as-
sured as that we should realise some two hundred millions
per amnia. They talked of nothing abort of two Milieu
sterling increase to our profits per week. (Hear, hear.) I
realty condole wish the noble lord and the right hon. gentle-
men on their disappointment ; bat with their new budget
they have • new device, inasmuch as the present aspect of
affairs justifies theme sweeerg reductions of the estimates
for the current year. It apeman that they an now about to
amuse that the amount of the expenditure of this country,
in • put year, should neemarily govern its ex
tun in the present. But this I know, that whenever
arge resonates of retrenchment have been rashly
advocated by the government of the time, they have
been invariably followed by largely increased expenditure
on the succeeding year, whether the pretext for the reduc-
tion had bout " domatic tranquillity" or any other equally
encouraging "aspect of affairs." (Hear, hear, for Mr.
filoulbarn.) I thank the right hon. member for that cheer,
one which, though he dill not perhaps so intend, I assure
him is very encouraging. (A laugh.) I do not except the
retrenchments to the propoeition of which he was a party.
Take 1835. We had then a weak government, but 1836
was a year of increased expenditure. Look what happesed
to 1830. We had a whig government than, and also • weak
one, though with very eminent men in it. What was the
moral of the Reform Bill ? This, that whereas it had been
carried, avowedly, far the puepcoss of retrenchment, its im-
mediate ornesquence was an menus of the national expen-
diture by 10 millions per annum. The outobOshments of this
country bad been largely reduced ; and so observant
had other powers been of the attitude which they
then presented, that they largely Increased their own • and
had it not been foe the revolution of 1830, which displaced
the previously reigning dynasty of Franca, there would have
been an alliance between that country and Russia to extract
from us what they had never natured to press for as long
as our establishments remained on an affective footing. But
he mu.t seek re.nind the house that whereas boa. gentle.
men prose to oar trade an increase of ten millions on the
repeal of the am laws, an sooner has that repeal been at-
compliehed than our exports have declined by ten millions.
I protest, on this ground again, 'panel the notion that any
reasonable ease has been shown, either in our own condition
or that of our relations with Europe, or the state of our com-
merce, for improved " patent aspect of affairs" which is
adduced in the speech from the throne as warranting the
proposition for largely reduced establishments. There
have been given several ramose for euttiog down our
expenditure 10,000.0081. ; but is it the opinion of her
jeety's inhalators, or is it the opinion of the Secretary of State,
that the French nation can never as is eller d, go to war
again? Tenure of property has bees alluded toes one of
the reams why war may not be expected to break out, but
I remember that there was the suns tenure of property forty
or My peen age—that the amount of proprietors under that
teem wee careellig peat as at present, and that with that
teems Shod we bed wen. (Hear, hear.) This is one of
the seam= aseigeml why we should cut down the expendi-
ng, 10,000,0001. • year. But fa it true that her Majesty's
'armament
_assign that as one of the reasons why the
set melee should be lower, or that • state of
revelation, sad not of war, may exist, and yet
that thee, may be so danger ? New air, first of all, as an
• peopeeMs4 I doubt that. I, think a state of rev. la-
des is ally Mat Ws to war, and that it is • state of things
that mks des tenure of property exceedingly uncertain.
Bat is Mins, in mint of fact, that revolution and war are
not eammedteat evils ? We had a revolution in this country
in 11118-4 nal revoitition, in which a dynasty was changed,
and anew amenipt pissed on the throne, yet after that
revointles we sassed Mea war not the least glorious and
fair, mid meet sempreheselve. but you will say probably
that that was a war to make fortunes for younger erns.
Resdhat, however, what was the state of France,
while is not an aristocratic ocountry. I have read
• week of Robespierre, delivered in the tribune
ef the Convention, thd was worthy of the Pres-
sed* Hall of Manchester—(" bean hear," mil laingtter)—
so worthy of it that I have no dents he moil be a Sages
now if he were alive. (" Has, Mar" GM aintlessd
laughter.) Well, this is an argument that basest innellieed
se, nor will I be 'subunit by say segueing shut at re&
mese to the Wart of the singllgatheel goviereints of
Beeepe,,hst Wm Is no theme of woe, beaus wee les
mg as yin Ai
swot upon the heels of moieties. The
meta Iced mulls will, of mane, tall us whether the se.
r ug bee 'Mina
the :Il • bat certainly I eases emu to
ions se .Illinois upon sq au ue&
k r
Neelrol epos with eastbie argument whisk has gm
fond, sandy that no nation now will atoms
a asaquass. hams during the last one hundred yeas se
miss unguent • onsetry white it her not lanai to he •
NOM of truism What doss lierepageter of then gam
my to the .suggest Of Malta? (Hear, hem.)
rita at a MIN of mums? What does he
Mak of the of 80leis by Prsesis ? A au-
gust thst aneseUd Preisla. ass lets • mend rate, but into
this a sem& nee power. _ (4gisese.) What
doseerthidt the eignishies of the eorr provisoes by
An** et et the genius= seat?tgaritiy I do not
speak sew se the I believe it tobe
a ewes of etressiragreta, the 'lsth-
mus/ the isegwill tell stogie eatili aura et the
onssailes, leek at the whole of lonthern
Woe mg the esisletis gabbed then a wares se the greatest
=lto Rada ? and yet the/ wan ell augured
ee sainiiey of ear fathers. (Hear.) I cannot yield,
them, to the bar merles to whisk I have alluded ; sad I
will now allude briefly to another. We are told it is lavas-
eiMe there ma be war, became a new principle hie entered
into polities celled " race ;" that the Italians, for instance,
area Merest nes to the Austria's, and that they Gagnot

siabonk to be matrollsel. Thi is this gehmiple, I suppose,
that Manses bee Ms.sulre eavetrament in their
pressat datemiesden. I is. told that &glee& and be mo-
unt with a ism demonstration of brat. serer. Now, I am
net prepared to goateed that point, bat I would like to
have a clear definition of what brew foram 1111111616 (Hear.)
My opinion is, the: en Gray --a highly dkomplia4 army,
impeDad by a sew of gnat slaty to ace es the defender.of
disk country, the =ablaut's of ceder, the fostadation of
the national honour, or the coasolidation of the
nadosal strength— a body d men them disciplined,
sad led by ens of the most hark., of his nee,
aa Alesander, a Carr, or a Welleele)—l have al-
ways oonsiderid that that is • is which moral
farm entered se malt as physics!. (,use.) But, if I lad
• acre with a 'arida facility of speech—if I and a maa like
that liareagaing great bodies of hi. aosatrymen, delivering
lad Immatory appeals to thelr poseions, sad mining them:us
swami the institutions of their await', that is what I call
• demonstration of brats teas. _ ((Load cheers from the Pro-
tootkaiste.) That Ls what I Walt this country lanai be
very well content to do without, sad which, if there be say
salge or spirit left in the area of light and learning
In this country, they will moire to pat down as an intoler-
able, in ignominious tyranny. (Renewed cheers from
the Proteeticaists.) Her Medlars mtristers have yielded
to " public opinion." air, public opinion on the continent
has turned oat to be the voice of stout sacklike, and public
opinion its Basked is the voice ofciamonr--oforganhed clubs.
I believe that the Addrest we are called upon to vote does not I
give a candid and ingenuous picture of the present condition
of this country, and I hive drawn up en amendment,
couched in no partisan spirit, giving what I believe to be •
fair and basset representation of the state *1 affairs. I
move that, alter the paragraph referring to the progreaive
improvement of the , the following amendment be
inserted

however, to be compelled humbly to etymon' to your
Majesty that neither your blejeety's relations with foreign powers,
see no state of the revenue, nor the condition of the commensal and
minufeetarlag interests of this country, ars au eh as, in our *Men,
Jannis In sddrooriag tour Majesty in the language of congratula.
tam, sad that large portions of the agricultural sad Menial interests
of the empire are labouriug under a state of proprendes depreasioe,
mkalated to nails serious appreheaska and satiety.
(Applesse from the Proteetioeiata.) That the amendment
1 intend to propose. Sir, I have noticed these crude and
p.rtring specu.ations that are afloat respecting rpecial
Soancial reforms,
_ not only because I think them very
dangerous to the counter, not only became they
have converted, according to rumour, the govern-
ment, but because they an avowedly, on the
part of their promulgaters, oily tending to ulterior mea-
sures. (Hear, hear, and applause.) Sir, I might say of the
new revolutionary movement that all their proceedings are
ctaracterised by a frank audacity (Hear, hear.) They have
scarcely supported the throne. They have atnouuced the
ecnititutioaal societies of the realm as an an equated ma
chinery net alapted to the preseat day. Well, cow they are
In our presence, we shall see how they will expadite public
business, but you mast know that Freeetrade Hall prostate
greater laiilities fur the despatch of business then the House
of Commons. There you can eairy everything b. fora you.
(II ar.) There, there is no collision of argument or intellect.
—no diseetmaion—(bear, hesr)—no doubt is raised abort the
propriety of adoptiog the new cyst. an which ia to set aside
the sagacity of matured England (Ap; lame.) But so long
as this house remains& a long, I trust will the hears of the
people of this country never be turned from the 'Lowe of
Commons in favour of theme saw sccieties. Por my pan I
denounce their politics, and I defy teen predictions, but I
do so because I have faith in the people of Boglani, in their
genius and in their destine. The bon. gentleman resumed
hi. seat amid loud and prol .aged applemae.

The amendment having been seconded and put from the
chair,
Mr. GRATTAN said that it was his intention at an
earlier hour of the evening to 'impose an amendment
upon that paragraph in the royal speech which hid refer-
eau to Ireland, but he had been anticipated by the hoe.
gentleman who had jut sat down, and who had delivered a
speech which would nuke 'simperers/on not only in the house,
bat throughout the evuntry at lug'. (Hear, hear.) He
(Mr. Outten) regretted that he was under the amenity of
proposing a second amendment, bat he felt that the hen
members for Ireland who were present must feel them
selves degraded by pert of the language which
had been unjustly inserted in her Majesty's speech
That part of the speech which referred to poor-laws in
Ireland, was not satisfactory to him, and he felt assured could
not be to any Irish member. Those laws had been almost
universally condemned by resolutions passed at county meet-
Inge:summoned by the high sheriffs of those counties, as having
failed in their operation. The law which applied to England
did not apply to Ireland, and the law which applied to the
east of Ireland did not apply to the west. There were rainy
important facts connected with its operation which a com-
mittee would not inform them of. It might elicit details
already known, but would nut tell them of the ruin which
the poor laws have caused to several deserving landed
proprietors. The evil did not stop there, for the people
were dying in the ditches at the rate of 20, and
30, and 60 a week, and buried without coffin or
shroud, and this not merely in the west and south, but
in other parts as well. Their evil effects were even begin.
sieg to be felt in the north. Not only were the rents
vanishing, but with the rents the best of the tenantry. They
were gulag to America, not only is grief at being forced
from their own Country, but with the seeds of revenge in
their bosoms, which have been already displayed in the hope,
openly expressed by sores of them, that their sons might
return at a futon day with rid. s on their shoulders. It was
the duty of the government to alley that feeling and prevent
the danger it might hereafter create, by a timely alteration
of these laws which were the immediate cause of the
evil. England was never so popular on the con-
tinent as at this moment ; but her conduct to Ire-
land would certainly not mike her more so. Her suspension
of the Habeas Corpus Act would neither make her
more popular abroad nor add strength or honour
to her throne at home. They might talk of insurrection !
But where was it. Was there a single paper before the
houses to prove its existence f It was notorious that men
cried aloud in the streets for insurrection, but could not
succeed. The very day that cannons were loaded, gates bar-
ricaded, sad the bank secured with sand bags, in 'specta-
ting' of an insurrection, the City of Dublin was never more
tranquil. The government, unfortunately, followed the
advice of men who knew nothing of the ease or real con-
dition of Ireland. Men were arrested, not because they
were traitors to the queen, but because they were hostile
to the policy of the government. Men in America now
complained of that. They complained of not being treated
as freemen, and demanded the restored's of Irish nation-
ality, and because they did so they were followed by
spies, and in self defence obliged to fly their oeuntry.
He would move the omission of the thirteenth paragraph
of the speech, because liberty alone should prevail in a
country that had been so long wronged. The hoe. gentle-
man, recurring spin to the poor laws, pointed oat the ports
of it which particularly required change. He wished for
smaller areas of taxation, and the johns's:ilk of compelling
a man to wa'k 20 miles for relief, or refusing it because he
bad a quarter of an sere of land, dose away with. It
was painful to be obliged to blame men who he knew
had at heart the laureate of their country, but
the effect of these laws was such that be felt compelled
to throw the blame on those who had the power to alter
them. The want of classification of paupers in workhouses
was absolutely demoralising the women, while the food was
such as to destroy the character for strength of the able-
bodied men. Those who could were leaving the country
without payinshilling of rest ; and to such an extent was
this taking place, that, between emigration and the poor
laws, Mayo,eery, and part of Cork might be struck out of
the map of Ireland altogether. On some estates only four
occupiers were left, and they were made to pay the penalty
for the absentee proprietors. What he comp eat of was,
that the ministerial intentions as to the Irish poor law had
not been clearly stated. Surely they did not mean to exter-
minate the people, and yet such was the effect of their mea-
euru and each it must be, without an absentee tax. It was
said all the people wanted was senpleyment ; but if the lands
were cleared there would neither be employment nor persons
to be employed. He denied that there was, or could be, or
ought tote, amity between England and Ireland so long as
' the Habeas Corpus Act was suspended, and an army of spies
and informers was let loose on his unfortunate country.
Still, he doubted not that if the Queen visited Ireland
the loyalty and gallantry of the people would give her
heartzeireleonte. They wanted not sepeuthea, but fair Play ; wanted resident proprietors, and setts see whale
estates le destitute. If things were allueli le mmtinne
in their present state, they would not be elle es mile a
thousand soldiers in case of necessity. Any man's
loyalty would be destroyed by such treatment at
that to which the Irish had been subjected. Alludes
had been nude to the system of posed/ming Ilse
clergy. Let not the government suppose that
the clergy were to be gained by such means, while
they were placing the laity under laws skin to those of
Castlereagh. Having bullied the Protestants and b
the C they were about to buy the el rgy7gicre:
might depend upon it they would never nada, . With
these views, he should move the omission from the para-
graph relating to Ireland of all the words after "iwarree-
tioa
in Ireland," and the substitution of the following
words:—" Disturbances in Ireland have not been renewed;
but a tiding of discontent, augmented by the distresses of
the penis, still exists, which it will be our duty to watch,
and, as speedily as possible, to remove."
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL seconded the nmeadment
The wanks and amendment having bees put heaths eheir,
Mr. W. !SHAN repeseed the effintles et the hewn fir
a Am mine while& be to eat spa three pins la the
op* hem the theme relative to Inked. The speech de-
ding thel he aortas parts of that country peat distress pre-
vailed in annum& et the failure of the potato crop. If
he were to hem any judgment of the i-Matioae of the go-
vernment from that paragraph, he should premise that =l-
abors wen about to come down to prllement sad to ask for
ems relief for the mitering people ; and though he was toe
who prawn& that Ireland should struggle
her difficulties by herself—yet kaserns, es &eV
the state of penury that existed throughout the pow law
anions there, end that eves 20e. in the read did set lain
for the relief of the distreskite would sot seism este se-
Aetna Ullman offiered. Bat the ahem wee sot paid
in Irelesa—it misted thromboses the length and bread= si
the while lead. And es nine of it, the drab*en there
had dammed from 6,000,0001. t. 4,000,0001. The asizene
was else lammed by the pestles et beerffing, whielt erne
zeryezershat. The next tope Is the epos& to shish he
advert was that which referred to the opereffiut of
the peer laws in Ireland. He dared ea this sabfeet from
hie les. hind the member for Limerick. Ile al alai
g
as bri into the working ot the poi laws
In babied ens requisite, and it would be laser dint in
thus ohs last year, allied for Oh leg to my
it was ad sow wanted: The very fact that a dife ence of
°Poke Wend ea the &pet was pima esigeleat for sec
amply, sad he scold voueh for than fast, for he was at a
weaseies et masioen in Dublin at the nip*, whoa there
wen fin different opinions erprups4 on the "abject of the

paste-sawn. The lea. member far Wail* was opposed to
ail peer law in basal. Ns (Mr. Fops) was ler stall
enhancma-
i tinehl the systemer, he maidge it seen reshot fee the
teethe sad else making all the of '
Ind peg
eed hue bile , b be
k there et the baba. The third topic
to whisk be bed to allude hots speck& abases to the
am hikes the hems. If he bed bees asked what
ought to be mid it the royal speech *set based, he should
have replied that Imo sonestaleiles aught to have been
expressed ea the telasuft sate of the gauntry, and a re-
goonneadailen MGM that the people should be immediately
restored to • the poniesekm of all their civil rights. The
nation had always bum aid that agitation was the bass
cc Ireland, sad that ulna es it eased the people shield
hays Justice dons them. Now ho sesame& that agitation
had aimed to Ireland, emit ineend of doing theajustser, the
ministers cf the grown, lesteml efaming down to parliiunont
to ash fa a fresh morales bill against them, ought to pro-
pose soon soothing meineres. When it was rimmed to
take away the Hann Capes Act—• statute of whisk the
Knalish were so justly proud, the government ought
at host it:Troilw the reasons for so doing. He again smarted
that Ireland was tranquil is those pans he woe acquainted
with—eo mutt se that the people were disgusted with
political feeling sad agitation. He was at the tame time
Moe to admit that the noble lord at the head of the Irish
government had used the powers entrusted to him with great
moderation. But he could never give that nobleman his
confidence so long as he uphold the jury packing system in
Ireland. Irish manikin had often been told by the government
that the nitation which prevailed is Ireland had prevented
the introduction of remedial measaree—that agitation had
now ceased, and the 'overpaid had an opportunity of intro
dieing any remedial measures with which they might be
prepared. If the government would beadle the social evils
of Ireland in a bold and masterly spirit he could promise
them the hearty Nippon and amistanee of the people of that
country. (Hear, bear)
Lord J. ItUSSELL—Sir, the hon. gentleman the member
for Beekinghamshin, who spoke first in this debate after my
noble friend the mover and the sencder of the address, paid
a tribute which I thought applicable to the noble lord who
loag led that party with which he is connected, and where
lone he most justly deplores. (Hear, hear) Sir, I could not
hear that tribute without remembering that I, too, bad lost
since the last onion of parliament friends with whom I also
was politically oonnected ; sad I most say I think it not only
'mumble, but right, that such losses mould not be pseud
ever in Slone in this house, because the lose of men of sen
doubted integrity, of high spirit, of great talent, and cf lode-
facia able industry in public tininess, Is not • private, but a
na'.'onal calamity. (Cheers.) Sir, in referring to the various
•
topicswhich have been raised in this debate, I will state but
brie fir the remarks that I have to make with regard to
Ireland, because there is no subject connected with that
country which is not likely in a abort time to form the sub-
ject of a separate discussion. With regard to the particular
amendment snick% the hon. gentleman hu moved, relating to
the powers for a renewal of which her Majesty's government
propose to ask, I will only request the house to gofer its opinio.,
until they hear the statment which my right hon. friend
shall make, founded, eertaicly, upon the opinion of the Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland; but that opinion not only formed
from his own judgment and from his own quick and saga-
cious observation of passing eveata, but likewise from the
testimony of these from whom we are are bound to obtain
information with respect to the state of Ireland. (Hear.)
I will only say further that I hope this house will beer in
mind when they come to this discussion how long a govern-
ment must pause, supposing no such power to net, alas
it comes down to parliament to ask fur such power, what
menaces, what agitation, what interruptions of trade and
commerce, what fears, what disturbances of the public peals
must occur before a government asks foe such powers. It
therefore this power were allowed to expire, and agitation
were again to begin, it would not De at the first m c
ment of that agitation that the government could
with any hope of success . ask . for a grant ol
such were • but they must wait until a coarse of events 1 Po e, .
somewhat similar to that which before took place in Ireland
should again occur to the great misfortune of that country.
(Hear, hear.) But, sit, those pricers which we propose to
ask are not powers as against Ireland. On the contrary,
they are powers for the prutectioh of all the well di/pored,
to the protection of the great majority of the people 'gaunt
nose who would turn the presect misfortunes of that emi-
ts., to purposes of rebellion and issurrection. ( Hear, hear.)
Sri, with respect to another topic, I own I was surprised to
hear from the two boa. gentlemen who moved and seconded
that amendment that her Majesty's government ought to
nave come down and proposed at once its bill for the amend.
meat of the poor law. I have been smostonted to hear con.
bowel reproache a that in our legislation for Ireland we do cot
consult those who represent that country—those who know
the feelings, the wants, and the condition of that country—
that we rely upon our own knowledge, based upon English
prejudices and English theories, and that we do not listen to
the opinions of three who are themselves natives of Ireland,
and are so much better acquainted with the measures that
are fitted for that country. (Hear, hew.) But now that
we proper e that there should be • committee in which we
dealt be able to ascertain what the Irish numbers think of
the modifications which the poor-laws require' and to c in-
sult their uxperiencd before bringing • bill into the how'
We are told that we ought to have framed our bid
entirely on our own notions, that we should not listen to the
opinions of Irish members, but bring Ia our bill indepen-
dently of any such advice or information. It is obvious that
H we had taken that course we should have been liable to
repos* and no doubt we should have fallen under the
linini ci those who now blame us for taking
an opposite anise. (Hear, hear.) At the same time
sir, I must observe that we cannot see that unanimity of opi-
nion in Leland as to the amendment of the lour law, that
upon that opinion we should be justified in forming a bill for
its amendmeat. As the hon. gentleman stated, • very smell
section, only nine of the representatives of Ireland, met to
discuss this subject, and amongst them there were five dif
ferent opinions II to the alterations to be proposed. So that
if we had taken the opinion of one of those five, we should
have bad bur to one of Irish opinion Nana us. (A laugh.)
We have hem charged with not having brought forward any
ether mann for tlie relief of Ireland. With respect to
ether mummas, I may say that there were several bills Jo-
inineed list year, which we wan again to 'ohmic to the
reasidentlea of the hoses during the present year.
Cue et thosse bills was with regard to the loos-
ened gelation of landlord and tenant, which last
year was submitted to • ocmanittee, and which
we reopen again to lay before the house. Then then is the
was with regard to the francSarith respect to which
my right hen. friend has a bill pillared. Mao is
ales the grand jury system, a q of great difficulty,
but with respect to which our *aka hue been gives, and a
bill will be introduced in the course of the present session,
so that we are not liable in fact to the reproach of not having
attended to any other subject in Ireland bat that of restrain-
ing the liberties of the people. (Hear, beer.) I coin now,
Sir, to some of the questions which were raised by the boo.
-entleman ; and I think it right to tats into them now,
raking the whole of the address, in prehrises to speaking
merely to the questioa contained la the ameedment imme-
diately before the how. In the first ides I will observe
that I think the hon. gentling= displayed very great
ingenuity in the objections which he made to the ad-
dress lobes us. He quarrelled with one phrase, carped with
another term, found fault with the title that has been given
to • foreign sovereign, and is that way, with very great
ability, kept the house from the consideration of the ques-
tion that is really boron es. (Hear, bier.) And be psi
seeded upon that to move an amendment, which, as I stall
Ftly show, is of a most extraordinary character.
F hear.) But before going much into the quailing of
,
the hon. gentleman thought fit to state to us
whet was the present state of our commercial legislation
mil peibry, and how much we had gone astray in that
legidatlem i and, in support of that opinion he made some
eleileiliel observations which, I confess, were perfectly un-
il to me. (Hear, hear.) He told us that when •
wisfrti importation of food was iatrodseed from Ame-
rigi4 the Americas growers sad importers gained a profit
of An million in the troasestion. Why, what does the
km. gentleman wish to later from that ? I should
have thought that upon this artistica all protectionists
even as well as all fees Sabra would acknowledge when
time was a great iird-amy of food is this country, whether
we have • tiling male, a fixed duty, er no day at ell, that
ft
des be age argils that inageney to oaftet as much
Uri es , boar.) And if the pries in this
mentry liMl,Lwigibt the pries in the predating country is
lee, that the towpaths of that profit is • reason why OUT
womb
be he supplied, and we should Mobs that they
shield be Nipplied by so large aa inportalloa. ( Hear,
bar.) That Mariam groans mad merchants should
=vs Want in shit leimeeiliin, nodded we had the
of the hod ler the NUMMI is this country, is sot
a subject of issiesteftes, but h wily the natural result of
enesesrer, whisk we shed& sot by any mans de-
plete. I was as advents kw a toed duty on corn,
sad if that And duty had beat sneelei many years ego
ft would have operated most himiftehily for the
country, and would at last have pain* gam way to the
complete free trade which we sew haw, bat, sir. parlia-
ment not bevies chosen to adopt that snob, having chosen
to set cant entirely fra,l do hops that airs= will think of—
above all I here that no one will be imenedid—in re-impos-
ing any iiwaiyi:asaU7t sale artiele of seninemee. (Cheers.)
The boa. having stated hh opiates upon that
abject, If it meant anything, meant, as I tansies,
the restintion of probeithe duties, then proceeded to enter
fate the lutetium of ea Madan New, dr, all that
h ented, with regard tit the n Melbas Odds country,
is the Qesis's Speuph has beta put in that speech by the
advice given to eseerftag to what is strictly
the feet with regard to the' time/ilw that have takes
place. Ail that minoatylle friend sills upon this house te do is
le.to thank her Ur the inkematies which she has
afforded n us upon matters. There h no word of con-
gratulations, no weal it( meehiWei4 thaZat this Addis's
of the tramestions reftered to, or *gds. puma. Ca
the contrary those snootiest are en reserved, bee ne
her Majesty is *seed to my in her speak that when the
Public gemoe will
Pulllftke Pears riling to those various
treaseetioes will be laid before parliangink (Hear, hear.)
Now, eh, it has been usual tor the House of Commons,
ski* does not take upon itself insanity the initiative in
thess matters, to wait for nth comainisailine—to pan for
papers Has, should think It sooormy to do is, or laving
wand till they are praised, to found, it they deem it se-
tessery to found, upon these papas some chain CC SOW
resolution with rapist to the peoessding. Such, I say,
has been the gaud come, sad seek appears to me
to be the resemble course with regard to those
ertauraitat. With newt to the state of >unntecteres,
the WIN of trereibeigs, or of egriselture, the hon. gentle-
4/ ear Igesjliag=thlsatheils,jafeliesationsks; proper for
atitistloat ow m we haw_ sgeserelly matters of a
nature, loans to various COM-
,
=l=anilin of asses subject to various
l Mann e 'hams *enures of their progress.
I de my them that his faa mamba to come for-
' weld oa rho tot his
cgs wftleist any such informs-

dee without eveageffifine_hr men information, and to ask
the house to vete es Wens that her Majesty's relations
with tousles pewees an set slosh as is our opinion jjastify
us
is addressise is the language of km.
(ffeer.)But se hammed —no congratulation
has been silted, W eamsent to the proposal of the has.
gendemen weed be Bendy tos2onthat the Hone of Cem-
ented thank rto form its without any knowledge
of
the that have taken place, or any insight into
the Inessealen; and that upon the opinion so famed they
leek apes the matter as one, net of nagrittelatin, but of
ondoleses. (Hear, hear.) So much as to the term sad
thee of the hon. gentleman's proposal. But wham I beast
him make his observations upon the state of ear hoolignakz
Bey if esaviand me the more that he wee wing In
the knee to emu to any such eonclusioe, because the hes.
guesses himself seemed to be totally' misinformed with
regard to there relatives. (113 v, hear.) He seen
to suppose, for instance, with regard to tee war carried
os betweea the King of Sardinia, whom the hon. ggeentleman,
in hie strict love for cornet natation'. deesainated the
King of the Two Biddies-4 laugh)—with regard to the
war carried on between the King of Sardinia and the Em-
peror of Austria, that we had proposed to interpose our
mediation without ever having been requested to mediate
by the Emperor at all. Another statement I know has been
made, and is current amongst the public, that such media-
tion was proposed to as by the Emperor of Austria, and was
refused by this country. Neither of these views is correct
Toe real fact is, that the Emperor of Austria was pleased
to send an Austrian statesman—a very distinguished man, a
gentleman whom I have often had occasion to meet, and whom
1 have always met with great pleasure—to this country,
with a proposal that England should mediate between him
and the King of Sardinia. We accepted that me' diadem,
but with regard to the bases proposed, we suggested certain
alterations for the adoption of the emperor. When the
papers are proinced it wstl be seen that the statesmen con-
Mitred that we had accepted the mediation, but he demurred
to the terms of our bases considering that those proposed by
the emperor were the been whico should be acted upon. At
a subsequent period a 'mediation was proposed to the
Emperor of Austria, bat under these circumstances the
King of Scruple and his advisen determined to ask for the
sentence of France. A correapenden e thereupon took
place between this country and the French government; and
the French government at our request consented to put
aide all question of oosimenaing hostilities against Austria
in Italy, and conjointly with us to propose a mediation to
the two towers. (Hear, hear) There the matter terminated.
(Hear.) Toe hen. gentleman said in another pert of his speech
that be downed whether this country ought to have acted
with Fiume, with the government which she had adopted
dace the revolution. Sir, I feel no such doubts. (Hear.)
I feel convinced tint our acting in concert with France
daring the past year has been of great ben, fit to the peace of
Europe. I fell convinced that if wet ad said at once, " How-
ever molerate your proposals, however pa-ifle the course you
prances to pursue, yet von have changed your monarchical
increment into a republic, and therefore we will have no.
thing to say to your prepaid' :" such an man r would ie
the first plies have excited suspicion in France that though
we did not profess it, we meant to interfere with respect to
the form of government they hod chosen. and I believe,
in the next place, that being left to take her own
line without ears and without advice, she would have been
driven by the violent party in that country into sudden hos-
tilities, by which the whole peace of Europe might have been
endangered. (Hear, hear.) I do not agree with the hon.
gentleman that we ought not to have bad any
concert with France in these subjects. Whether
France has been wise in changing the form of her
government to a republic—whether it is true, as
the hon. eentleman said, that there are no republicans in
France, ars questions on which I do not mean to enter.
Those are questions for the } ranch people ; but what I
know is this—though at the commencement of this revolu-
tion there were words used in a circular of M. Lamar-
tine's conveying some unintelligible jargon with re-
gard to assisting struggling nationality which cer-
tainly appeared to many individuals calculated to
endanger the peace of Europe, and which I agree might
have led to great mischief, yet I must say with respect to
Id. Lamartine, with respect to Gen. Cavaignae, and with re-
spect to the present government, that we have had since
that revolution to deal with governments in France, to deal
with persens directing the foreign affairs of France, who
have listened fairly and candidly to all the representatims
we hove had to make to them, who have stated freely and
honestly to us what they believed to be the interest and
ley of France, and that we have had no reason whatever to
complain; but, on the contrary, have h .d reason to rejoice
that we had to deal with men of high honour and
of consistent and unwavering integrity. (Haar, hear.)
But, air, I am not sure that I am at all convincing the hon.
gentleman, when I say that our concert with }ranee has
touted to the preservation of the pesos of Europe, because,
as far as I collect from the tenor of his speech, our object
ought to be war; we ought to let war take its course. That
was his view especially with respect to Holstein. He said,
hour mediation hasput a stop to hostilities sad what would
ave gone on very well has been arrested by your media-
tion. What would have gone on ? The King of Denmark
would have resisted the power of the Germans, and the Ger-
mans would have insisted they had a right with respect to
Schleswig, which had been long favourable in opinion to
Germany. Russia and France would have taken their views,
but than views not being counteracted by specific mediation,
war would have been the result. We did not interpose
when the King of Denmark wished us to mediate. Then
there is another question—a question, so far as we are con-
cerned, of more serious imp at. I mean with regard to the
question of Naples. It will be recollected by those who heard
the statement which was made last year that Lord Minto
WAS requested by the King of Naples to propose to the Sici-
lians terms on which the would consent again to return to
their allegiance. After a very considerable time
spent in enhances Lord Minto, at the request
of the King of 'Naples, went to Sicily and con.
veyed those terms to the Sicilians. Those terms
were not accepted by the Sicilians. Lord Minto was of
opinion that they might have been in prudence accepted by
them; but, at the same time, the ground on which they de-
dined to accept was the ground on which it was not very
easy to shake their determination.
They state that in ancient
times Sicily was a free country • that in 1812 the constitu-
tion had been reformed ; that it had been reformed under
the auspices of a British general, and with British sympathy,
and that it was part of the terms of the constitution then
agreed upon that the parliament was to decide with reopen
to the whole internal administration, and with regard to the
number of troops to be kept up in Sicily ; that no foreign troops
of any kind, otherwise than Sicilians, except those
admitted b treaty, should be allowed to come into Sicily.
Moreover, there was an article in the constitution, that if the
King of Sicily should ever reside in Naples, he should then
name one of his son, or one of his family at all events, to reign
in Sicily. That constitution had, after various treaties
been put an end to the same year, but in 1818 the British
government had declared that they should consider it an ig-
nominy to the British name, if the welfare of Sicily should
be lees provided for. Such were the general terms. The
Sicilians insisted that the constitution should be restored.
When Lord Mint* returned to Naples, he found
that the King would not consent to such terms.
There was an end of the negotiations. It was undertaken
by the British minister at the desire of the King of the Two
&elm Whatever might be the case as to the jutificetion
which the British government might make for any further
interference, the decision of the government of this country
was not to interfere any further than to give any friendly
advice to the Sicilians in cases In which they might be asked.
Accordingly when some time after, an expedition was pre-
pared at Naples for the purpose of reconqueriog Sicily an
obstacle was interned to the sailing of the expedition.
It has been said that a large Bntish fleet was as-
sembled at Naples for the purpose of preventing
the expedition from sailing. That is an error, Sir
William Parker having taken the British fleet there on ac-
count of outrages in respect to which he thought he was
entitled to ask for reparation. But, sir, when thisexpedition
reached Messina, there took place at the close of the siege of
Minna events which appeared so horrible, t so Inhuman in
the eyes of the Preach admiral, that he determined to in-
. There were atrocities on both sides ; the destruction
of , of villein, and of unoffeading peasants, on one
side, and the bombardment against a town which had *eased
to resist on the ether. The tearing of the limbs of the
Swiss soldiers in the service of the King of Naples.
and parading those limbs with savage exultation about
the streets ! It appeared to the French admiral that it was
importable suet warfare could continue without such desola-
tion. teat no final terms of sentement could arise, and
he therefore determined to take on himself to pat a stop to
the farther proi ress of the Neapolitans. After he had so
revolved, and had communicated with Sir Wm. Parker, Sir
cos. Parker had the most difficult duty to perform;
bed lads( all the circumstances together—taking our former
kindly relations with the Sicilians, considering the account'
which he had received from the captains of one of her Ma-
Inn's ships, considering the atrocities which he had heard
related, considering that the French admiral was about to
est, and it was important to the junction that the two
math= should act in concen—his determination was to give
111611111elmilar to those which had been given by the French
admire. I owe I stated at the close of the last session
that no orders had been give to stop the expedition of the
Neapolitan government, but I said that government had re-
solved itself to act in future as circumstances might dictate,
cad I stated also that I bad a perfect confidante in the dis-
cretion and judgment of Sir W. Parker. I remember the
right hon. gentleman, whom I see opposite, the hon. mem-
ber for Stamford, expressing his concurrence in that
sentiment I have the greatest confident. in the judg-
ment and disaetion of Sir W. Parker. I do not
teak, with regard to these affairs, he was a man
likely to be led away by panic ; he had one of the revolu-
tionary mania by which some persons might have been
actuated ; he was anxious for the honour cf the British flag,
and was anxious for the cause of humanity, and took the
fradiag on his own responsibility. The question then,
thitish government, was whether they should entirely
disavow Sir ;William Parker, or whether they should tell
him that he had done wrong to interpose, or whether, an
armistice having been established. and the King of Naples
and his genend having, de facto, at last consented
to that armistice, we should take advantage of
this circumstance, in order to propose terms by
which the Neapolitan government and the Sicilian
might-again be induced to agree—by whirl they
Pimilt return to be subjects of the King of Naples, without
the continuance of a rebel war. We took the latter part of
the eternities; we are responsible for that. If it was right
to allow the war to recommence, it was right to separate eh.
British feet from the coons which was taker by the Frerech
admiral. If it was right to disavow Sr William Puke 4 we
have taken that coarse for which we deserve to bus
bat if it was the duty of the government to en_desae,m, with
rand to** two countrinewith respect to tht,KAig of Naples,
valokuraillo of
ef thiste%lstryon'rhide hthbo. thSiciliaapertirr, 'th`giouatildmegres, 4,adulthien'
I say as are juteified in the am" rm adopted. The bon.
member for Buckieghamehire seems. to say that there le
no

megoistics. He is entirely mistaken In NM emestion.
Timme have been terms with respect to whisk ea answer has
been reeseived from Naples, agreeing to some of those terms
as reuenable in themselves, and objecting to other', and
leaving it ma matter to be treated In further Negotiation.
That very negotiation still ectotimus. If ft ends in the re-
establishment of =nosy let these countries, I think we
shell have performed a duty both to the sovereign of
Naples and to the people of Sicily, and have rendered
a merles likens= to the 6111.11 of pane. If we are unable to
procure sash a settlement, all we can do at present is to re-
gain, that due node* shall be given when the armistice is to
erase but an belief is, that after what has taken place,
even If war were to be renewed, it would not be renewed is
the mate aphit which It was begun in the month of
August. My opinion is that the honour of England being
concerned, there would be, in the first place, such terms
offered by the King of Naples as to make it probable
that the war would not tend to to &seemliest,
Sadden, and desolating a warfare. With respect to
this subject likewise, if the hoer. gentleman would
have the patience to wait, he would in no long time have
had the paper before him. Bat with regard to all these
ennts, although we do not ask for smogratulatioe' although
we do not ask for approbation, yet I must saon, thatll am glad
to find that, during a year of great peril to the peace of
Barope, the services of England have been of use to stay the
ravages of war and to prevent hostilities, if hostilities had
ultimately to take place. I believe that standing secure in
ourselves, having no convulsions which other natioi a were
exposed to, I believe it was befitting the country, when
she was asked, to offer her good services for the
purpose of remedying quarrels of which very often
the ground is not very considerable, but which, if once left
to the arbitrament of war, may tend to as long and as bloody
=tests as if the grounds of difference feel been wider and
more considerable. Sir, with respect to the next question
upon which the hon. gentleman dilated, vie. the expense, of
mu military establishment, I think he seems, naturally
enough, t be hardly better informed than he is upon the
state of our foreign affairs. He seemed to sums, that we
had yielded to representations which had sppeered in pub-
lic, addressed to the Financial Association of Levert oil by
the hon. member for the West Riding of Yorkshire.
Now, air, my opinion is entirely against the opinion cen-
ts/sod in that representation. I think, whatever reductions
yen make, or wbatever augmentations you might mike, that
to take the date of 1836, or any other fixed year, and to say
you will secure your estimate and fix your establishes. at
according to the e xpenditure of that year, would b., with
great deference d the hon. gentleman, an extremely ir-
rational course. (Hear.) In the first piece, it is obvious that
your requirements may be ye• y different. In the ere xt place,
any one who will look at tile fivance sedum.' or the voies of
the year will see that there have been some four or tire mil-
lions added to our expenditure, =grounds which have nothing
Ito do with any increase of our army. Therefore, if we takeoff
I ten millions, instead of hateng the same establishment you
would have an establishment of five millions a year lees than
1836. In the next place, lam not sure that even in 1835 the
establishment was ha, d precisely secorling to the exigencies
of the country. I need not debate the point, because I de-
cline to adopt the estimate altogether ; but It must not be as-
sumed by the hon. gentleman that in 1836 that is the prc per
estimate to make, in the next place our poeeesaions have very
much increased and altered since 1835. In one e deny dame
which we acquired since 1835, there were 18,000 men
of the infantry of the line. It' you take your rule
from 183.5, you must have certain garrions diminished
below what was their worth to supply the garrisons of the
new colonies you have acquired. lam sure that any gentle.
man engaged in manufactures, commerce, or farming, e mild
never think of adopting such a principle. Suppoeirg a man
were to say—l fild the whole course of my expenditure, in
my factories is 30,0001. a year, in 1835 1 never paid more
than 20,0001. Then, if he taw he had two or three new In-
curies since that time, or had conducted the business of two
or three firms since that time, it would be obvious to him.
This is the cause of my increased expenditure, this accounts
for part of it. I cannot conduct five or six establishments
at the same rate as three or four. Such is the course a man
would pursue in private life. I cannot think it wise for
government or parliament to pursue an opposite comae, and
to say, we will have no references to services to be pert rand
or venison. to be maintained, but, because we find in
a particular year a particular number sufficient for
the public service, therefore we will say, there shall
be exactly the same sufficient for the present. But
while I disagree .in the opinion of the hon. gentle.
man, I think there is a phrase in his letter on the sub-
ject which shows the wrong test which he would apply
to these matters when he says that 10 millions is a coed
sum founded on former years, I thick it shows clearly that
he has formed his estimate, not upon what the exigencies of
the public service require, bat upon what he thinks will
make him popular. (Hear, hear.) Public meetings would
be likely to agree to this when they would not listen to de-
tailed statements by which a small sum might be saved. At
the same time, when we have to consider the question of
our establishment, I think it is obvious we could not adhere
to the course we found ourselves bound to take last year.
Last year there were sudden and formidable convul-
sions in various parts of Europe, and no one could say
what might be the issue of those convulsions. We did not
think we should be justified, in those circumstances, in pro-
posing to diminish our expenditure. We asked for the same
number of men for the navy and army which we had asked
at the commencement of the session, although we bad not
the ways and means sufficient for the purpose. This house
supported us in that comse ; they declared, by large majori-
ties, that it was not expedient to reduce our military esta-
blishments. But, air, when we had again to con-
sider the subject, when we had again to consider the
questien of estimates exceeding the amount of our revenue,
et was our duty, I think, to come to cne of two conclusions,
either to reduce those estimates, to bring them within the
amount or the revenue, or, on the other hand, to attempt to
raise the revenue to the amount of our expenditure. I t was
not fitting to go our, year lifter year, increasing the public
debt of the country, without a prospect of the expenditure
being equalised. Now the first course is evidently the best,
where tnere were reforms, which means retrenchment which
could be effi cted without impairing the number or the effi-
ciency of our military establishments. The report of the
committee which sat last year on our naval and military
expenditure, for the appointment of which the hints, is it;
debted to the hon. member for Montrose, shows that w
respect to the navy, there might be many useful retrenc -
=mte made, without impairing the efficiency of the service.
Here there is one source, but that would not suffice to bring
our expenditure within the limits of our income. I have
stated treat we had then further to consider whether our mi-
litary force could be reduced. Now, in considering that
subject, we had to remember that since we had been in office
we had added 3,000 men to the navy and 6,000 to the artil-
lery. In considering this subject we came to the conclusion
that in the present state of Europe, and having made such
an addition, we might safely make some reduction which
would give a considerable amount of saving without reducing
our forces below that which was necessary for the efficiency
of the public service and the defence of our various
colonies. Whether we have done wisely in that respect,
whether the redaction that we propose comes within the
principle I have stated, whither we have carried them too
far, or not gone frr enough, will be proper questions for this
house to consider when the estimates shaft come before us,
and when my right hon. friends shall state their views of
the exigencies of the service, and the sums we promer to
ask. But this I will say, that we have taken them on the
principle of what may be really accessary for the present
year, and not with reference to any particular pa.t
year, or any particular standard of expenditure wit in
which our cetintate was to be squared. When I say
that the aspect of public affairs enables us to make
these reductions I should say that I consider with
my hon. friend, who seconded the address that France is
the most valuable friend, or the most formidablei foe, with
whom we might have to deal. For many years, and under
different governments of France, it seemed to be the object
to increase her military armaments, but more especially to
maintain a very large marine ; not for the purposes of com-
merce—not to protect her colonies or trade, but obviously. •
navy to be used in case of war. lily opinion was, and is,
that if Francs were to have very great armaments at
Na, and that we were to allow our armaments
to go too low, there would be the less security
foe peace, and any trifling difference might Iced to
war if a war party in France were able to
int to England as being in a defenceless condition.
Cheers.) But the conduct of the late governments of
'ranee has shown that their disposition is to curtail and re-
strict, and this is one reason why I think it would be safe to
propose no greater estimates than those we contemplate.
And I do trust that, in spite of the denunciations contained
in the proposed amendment, the various nations of Europe,
however they may settle their internal affairs, will, in the
progress of their negotiations and in the progrem of
time come to the conclusion that war is inexpedient,
and that no cause is sufficient why one state should
be the ag moor against another. (Hear, hour, hear.)
If such pacific sentiment, should prevail, if each power is
left to make its own arrangements with regard to its own
internal constitution, then I should say that the reductions
of the present year may be followed up in futile years,
but that it would be exceedingly unwise and imprudent to
make any great and sudden reduction at once. What we
should attempt is a gradual reduction, made with a view to
what is called in the speech a wise economy, and which
should leave this country free to pursue that policy which
was best for her interests, and, as I believe, for those of every
E.
Europe. lam far from thinking that those countryrevolutions that there in
uur tPec
which took place last year have run their course, and that
suss
hfoeer nanx.)
anxiety the
Ipmendo nott pstaretteenodf
each nation is cow In a state of solid security and tren-
quiltity. lAusrejuoie, ica art
igraduc.alih
yasofenthisy
man, that the
be re-
empire
spicuous a manner. But all the questions which have agi-
tated her are not yet settled. Then there is the internal
ancient
constitution of. Prussia unsettled, and there are questions
country,
covering her etren•gth, and be able to show it in so con-
should
the at country, which the hon. gentlemen opposite
Mrls an em without an emperor, of which no one can tell
the ultima'm results. In feet, there has been last year an excem
of apprehension caused by the great events rising up sud-
denly hen and there, and there were penmen, pretending to
un-
sound speculations. Under such eiretimantaalires and
lie our
think that the time which
but
tessetlilmin2lxvismigi°llahrt visionary maxims
arise to disturb
feu cateudl
elapsedpoaths") ye
othafEt happiness
um
thp unforeseen
e
breaking set of those revolutions has
tended to make men consider the value of peace and order
as a set off against the theories of various parties, and how
much ought to be surf/iced of theoretical perfec-
tion to procure that internal tranquillity amid which
all reforms may be discussed, and gradually take
their place amongst the settled institution, of the Isnot
(Cheers.) No one can deny that amidst great misfortuh.
and of discussion
the great principles of freedom of the
from those benefits. I trust that the event may ul.
but der
be equal to the expectations of to; met sanguine
haveamong been
ntairaol Eedurope, and
warehiehEC;were°llhtithbeofto operateds 11