The Express.
London, England, 1849-06-06 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JUNE 6, 1849.

moreover always spoke se if they wen adding to the
taxation of the country, and as it the people were bons
down by the weight of it. If for Minos the country
e 60,000,0001. ten year. ago, and 62,000,0001.
the present year, the hoe. gentleman argued that therefore
the people were taxed to the extent of 2,000 000/. more than
they were ten lean ago. That wu a complication which
was unworthy of the hos. member for Montrose—the real
matter to be inquired into being, whether the IMO taxes
were kt pt up, whether oasts had been edded, and whether
the tans bad been reduced. He had before him a paper of
the taxes added and indeed in the last 20 years, from 1828
to 1847, from which it append on the sum total. that while
6,000 000 f. of taxes were imposed, upwards of 17,000,0001.
bad been reduced, tasking a balance la ewers of taxes re-
pealed over taxes imposed of 11,266,0001. It wog to be Wes
sidered also that in the come of these 20 yetis the
lien, and the wane and property of the country ha=
increasing ; so that with lt,ooo 00M. ler of taxation iduatl
which remained was derived from a greater amount if
property. With raved to thou taxes which wage
spinal, there had hem of late years a feeling ex•
pressed that taxes on ankles of consumption
might to be removed, and dirtet taxes substituted.
Out of the whole 7,500,0001. had been taken off the excise
,1
and 9.600,0001,4 the customs, while only 1.600,000. f. had
brio added to the excise, and about 2,000.0001 to the cus-
toms ; heaviest, therefore, a balaeea of upwares of 7,000,0001.
of custom, end nearly 6,1.00,000!. of excise reduced in those
20 yens. So fir wu it untrue, therefore, that this country
was hardened and weighed down by an additional amount
or taxation ; for during the last 2O yeses, and in the 12 years
before, the house had been employe., in taking off taxes and
is diminishing the burdens of the country. He would com-
pare the taxes on the necessaries of life at pveust with what
they were at a former period, and for that purpose would
quote a speech delivered in that house 112 yeah
age. Since that time we had had many wan, more
especially the last great revolutionary war, which had
increased our debt to an snorer us extent; it might
there. be supposed that the taxes on the onessaries of life
had been greatly increased. Is a speech made at that time,
a member of that house said, e For my parr, I do not know
any necessary of life upon which there is not some tax or
other, except water ; and we can put no iroredients into
water to make it palatable or agreeatle, hut such as are
taxed. We pay a tsx on air and light by day, by means of
the window (loin ; we pay a tax on heat and light in the
night ism, by maw of the duties on coals and candles. Our
food is taxed through the salt duty' our beer through the
malt tax ; and there is a heavy additional tax upon strong
hoer by way of excise." None of these taxes upon coals,
curdles, salt, or beer now existed. Thirty years later, Adam
Smith had said that there wen four article., necessaries of
life, which were especially taxed in this country—leather, salt,
candles, sod sup. Of those four articles, only one bore a tax
at present. These things were worth mentioning, because
it was to sun, gly repeated that there were great additional
tale, upon the necesaries of life, taxes which our ancestors
never had to bear and that the people of this country were
sufferiog under an additional weight of taxation on the ne-
monies of life. That two great wan, nob as the American
end the revatitionary war, both of which appeared to him
to have been unnecessary—(hes?, hear)—had rendered ne-
nuary • great had of taxation upon this country, In was
compelled to admit; and he was ears his hon. friend would
not wish to alter it if the alteration required any breach of
faith on the part of the country, or any attack upon the pub-
lic credit. (Hear, bear.) The hon. gentleman could not
be sure that such a plan as he had proposed would not have
for its result 03010 attack upon the pub ie credit. (Hoar,
hear.) One of the great petitions, signed by some
three or four millions, and presented by the hon.
member for Finsbury, especially declared against the
national debt, and asked the haute to grant univer-
sal suffrage and the people's charter on the grouud of its
being unjust top y the interest of the national deb'. (Hear,
ar,) Therefore, he should not feel exceedingly surprised,
were this motion carried, if many of thou to be admitted to
the suffrage should, in their ignorance, suppose that they
would be benefited by a reduction of the taxes required for
the payment of the inter at of the debt. With respect to the
gist—the main purport of dill motion—that of admitting
every male person orlon age to • vote, he must say, mkly,
that ho objected to giving every person a vote for members
of the House of Commons, in the belief that they would be
roily affected b misrepreuntation and delusion—their,
hear)--and that they had not sufficient political information
to enable them to make a right choice, of members to repre
sent them. (Hear, hear.) The bon. geed. men asked, it
he (Lord John Russell) did not believe in their virtue
and integrior ? (Hear.) He entirely PTO credit to the great
body of the working classes of this country for their
'virtue and integrity. lie beli coved that from time to time
the suffrage might ho enlarged, that they would become
more w. rthy of eojoying it ; but at present, were the whole
country divided into districts, and every man to have a vote,
they would be liable to be misled by artful and detigning
moms—(lood cheers from the opposition benches)—and
that a representation so fo-med would not conduce to the
welfare or good government of the people. (Hear, bear.)
The hon. member for Montrone had a k-el the government
to Point, what was going on on the continent. He by no
mean, wished to defend er eulogise those kings who had so
long withheld constitutional liberty from their auhiects.
Had they begun, after the pence of 1815, to admit tht it
people to the enjoyment of constitutio al liberties—h-od
they framed wise laws with regard to the press, so as to en-
able their subjicto to understand and discuss political mat-
ters, instead of being di iven to speculative works and wild
theori's as their mo&ls of government—thy it thrones would
have been safer, and we should not have seen the convul-
of the put and present year. But it did not follow
from this opinion that he was anxious to imitate the motions
of the continent In their present proceedings. (Hear,
hear.) While we enjoyed the freedom of the press
for ell kinds of opinions--while a man could be
told every morning by one new-paper, that the
whole country was ruined by the admission of
free trade—and while another newspaper was tell-
ing another gentleman that the canny was absolutely
rained because we had not adopted universal suffrage, and
followed the example of the continent—so long as every man
cool I have a journal of his own opinion, ail agreeing that the
country was ruined, and each having his own opinion as to
the GM, of that ruin, presented to him on his breakfast
table every morning—let us not have this state or
siege introduced, and some gentleman at the Fosse-ouards
depriving the ikons of this usual and comfortable accompa-
niment to their morning meal. (Great laughter.) He would
have no imitation of the continental nations at present un-
Iterating these changes. He trusted that rational and tem-
p lib 'toy might result from there changes. (Hear, hear.)
lie was sorry that it was PO difficult to attain, and accompa-
nied by so much disorder and so many quarrels. As far re
he could see, there were hut three great countries which ap-
peared to stand, each according to its consti-
tution, in a firm and unmoved position. In
ono there was complete democracy,—the ntite el
States of America. No one there wished to ch-rage the con-
stitution ; they had attained their object ; they had full
liberty ; their constitution was evidently suited to them.
Aoother war at the opposite pole—the empire of Russia,
where everything was fixed by the sole will of the monarch,
but yet where order was preserved, and whir. there was
general tenuity at least for life, under the strict means
adopted by a despotic government. The third was the con-
stitutional monist by of Gnat Britain. (Hear, heat) As
for as he could see, the people of this country were as much
attached to that constitutional monarchy as the people of any
country ever had been attach, d to their constitu'ioo. Ills
belief was that it was the form of government suited for this
wools ; his belief was that, not a balance of forces, but a
combination of forces, brought about by a monarchy, an
aristocracy, and a democracy ac'ing together, produced
as much of liberty and of happiness, as great a
development of talert, as great an encouragement to
the practice of both rel'gious and moral virtues,
as any constitution that the world ever exhibited had pro-
duced. Sts belief was that, by adopting the scheme of the
hon. gentleman, as explained by the hon. member for Man-
chester, they would risk all these blessings. (Hear, hear.)
He did nut think that, with a House of Commons chosen by
universal suffisge, in equal or nearly equal districts, they
would long have peace in that house ; snd if they had peace
in that house, by an overwhelming majority, cirryinff mea-
sures of a democratic nature, they would not keep to her
mony with the other two powers of the state. (Hear, hear.)
In framing the Reform Bill, as he had aired,
stated, they kid sought to adopt the rt presentatien
of that house to the other powers of the state,
and to keep it in harmony with the constitution.
That object, after seventeen years, they bad obtained—they
had obtained gradual and pre gressin measures of reform
without convulsion, without fear or risk of bloodshed. If
the went on in the same course other measures would, no
doubt, be adopted by parliament, which, being in harmony
11 with the opir.ion of the pecyle, would pus into law in a coo-
-1 stimti mat manner, and without any interruption of the coo-
' stitution. !Hear.; I pray you, therefore—said the noble
lord in conclusion—is the name of that constitution, not to
adopt the proposition now before the house, but to give it a
decided negative; and by so doing I believe you will be con-
sulting the interest, as I am firmly convinced you will b,
moulting the wishes and opinions of the poop's. (..The
sable lord sat down amidst loud cheers from the opposition
bamsbes.)
Mr. OSBORNE rose amidst loud cries for a division. He
said that it hon. gentlemen wish d to divide he would not
take up the time of the house. He did not think it could
have escaped the observation of the members on hie side of
the house, as he wss confident it would not estop the °im-
itation of the people of this great country, that the opposition
to the motion of his hon. friend had not proceeded from those
who were regarded as the hereditary enemies of reform, but,
with one exception, from those who occupied the position
Of ministers on the treasury bench. (Hear, hear.) And it
was a remarkable feet that those gentlemen who came into
power on the shoulders of his hon. friends, now stigmatised
slant as men of narrow and confined mitds (hear, hear)--
sad violated three principles which they held when in oppeo
Aden. (Hear, hear.) An hon. gentleman, who spoke
from behind the noble lord, and who seemed to
he qualifying himself for the treasury bench the
hon. member for Cambridge nude the speech, not of a spe-
cial pleader, but of a sped ell constable— (laughter)—for his
whole argument was derived from the 10th of April, which
was now used up, and should never more be mt n-
tinned. The last speech they had heard was a melan-
choly exhibition. (Laughter.) It was a melancholy till
bition for the noble lord, to whom the hon. mem-
ber for Bradford alluded as being designed by Ood
and nature as the natur leader or the le. He
thoueht the hon. gentleman would below in-
clined to retract that monition, and would no
longer consider that the noble lord was designed to be the
natural leader of the democracy in this country. ( Hear.
ht ar.) What wen the arguments of the noble lord ? He
merely appealed to the conservative fears of the old women
of this country. (Laughter.) He said that the national
debt was to be attacked. What did the uoblo 100
say himself respecting the national debt in his fa-
mous work on the constitution ? In that book he

said that the eonatitati wss never flied; hut row
he said it wee a Bud and venerable constitution. The noble
lord said that the national debt was the cause, of the great
tuition which pressed oa the country, and that never under
any despotism was such an amount of taxation known as in
this country. If, therefore, a &valeta way to be established
►y this country it must begin by the destructi si of the national
debt. Bat it might be imagined that as the redue•.ien of rise.
was meet popular the people would c..nsent to part with
their liberty on t►e terms of the abolition of the national debt
The noble lord appealed to the lean of those sensitive pe
the fundholdere, as if his ►on, Weed was not as much in.
terestid in maintaining public credit u the noble loid hint.
self. (Hear.) This was but a week invention of the enemy.
The nob'e loud hod said that his hon. friend the memb-r for
►lsnchater was a man of narrow mird, because, fersosth,
he undertook to criticise the compoiition of the noble loro's
eahioet. But was it not notorious that the whig aristeermey
had been always, in reality, more anti liSeral than the tory
i,torraey of this realm? The speech of the noble lord, so far
from having any effect on the motion o' his hon. friend,
would tend materially to strengthen it. (Hear.) The noble
lord bad called hie boo, friend, and other free-traders in that
house, men of narrow and ccntrac•ed minds. He would
therefore say to them, let the country see that sou art
determined to make a stand—separate youreelv, • from the
party who have shown such incapacity and want of energy.
and take that place which your talents and yo-r prwitioe
entitle you to. Such was the advice he tendered to his Eon.
friends, and sure he was that they would be supported by
pubic feeling out of doors. (dear.) Tee soli@ lard nicht
then declaim to empty benches, whilst they would beearried
into power on the shoulders of the people.

Mr. P. WOOD ate amidst loud aka for a division
thatße said those gentlemen who were so anxious for a di-
vision ought to be satisfied that so little time was taken up
in discussing the question of triennial parliaments and the
ballot, but they ought t pay some attention to the present
abject, which was a most important one, and excited c m-
eliorable attention amongst a large portion of the pee-,.1e.
(Hear.) Whether they had pot four or fire miliioss pre-
senting petitions or m.t on this subject, they could not ignore
their existence. (Hear.) He did not mean to say that
this querion excited intense interest areongst every one
of these 4 or 6 millions; but he knew—and they had formid.
able Drat of it—that many hundred', of thousands had feel-
ings far too sensitive not to feel their inferior condition, and
minds for too acute to take impatience or a sneer f.r argu-
ment. (Cheers.) It was most remarkable that none of those
who spoke against the motion of his hon. friend had grappled
with his arguments. (Hear, hear.) The argument used
by the right honourable baronet (Sir G. Grey) and
others was this, that the motion of his hon. friend
was identical with the six points et the charter, whereas
the fact wan that they were not only not identical, but were
directly and diametrically °proud, and it was that differentia
which led him to support the one, and to oppose the other.
(Hear, hear.) The noble I, rd did not take precisely the
same line, but he pursued a similar course, ter he took some
par ictolsr passages in the speech of his hon. friend the
member for Manchester and so distorted them that
he made it &ppear that the object of his hon.
friend and of the hon. member for Nottingham was the
same. The language attributed by the nols!e lord to his hum.
friend was that •• he had no respect for the constitution."
But the words of his hon. friend were that he had n e re Teel
fur such a constitution is could not proceed without the aided'
force and mulence He believed the present was a most oppor-
tune moment for settl in g the question of parliamentary reform.
At a time of peace and quiet at home, and when demonstra-
tions had been afforded of the fidelity and loyalty of the great
masses of the people, that saes the time to interpose, and not
when there were lowering clouds abroad, and when they
knew not how soon those clouds meted burst. There were,
indeed, vast quentities of infiAnenable matter in the country
at present. Therefore, let hon. members be wire in
time. Lot them not wait for agitation, but let them
carry their reforms into effect without delay. (Hear,
hear.) The noble lord at the bead of the go-
vernment admitted that he was prepared to produce
an extension of the suffrage ; but why not produce
it now ? (Cheers.) The hest moment for d doe so would
have been immediately after the demonstration of the 10th
of April, but the next bat time was now, bee suse cue of the
strocgest reasons for bt ieging forward a measure of the kind
was furnished by the tranquillity of this country compared
with that of France. Why were we ere. quilt Should
we have been tranquil in February In t, if we
had not passed the Reform Bill ? Should wo have
been tranquil if the corn laws had not been
repealed ? (" Hear," and cheers.) But were there still no
dr ngers ? Were there no large classes disaff cted portons
in the country ? Nay, more—were than not s Lae reveal
on the side of order Isle February and Id arch who sympa-
thised with the disaffected? There were. He beliemd
there were hundreds of workmen,imploy.d not far from that
house, who declared rat that time that they would protect
property, but that they would not he sworn in as
sp.cial constables that they would not ace sgain4
their clad (Hear, hear.) This was a formidable
tact. One gentleman had brought 500 men, friends of
order, who declared that the people were of their class, ar.d
that though they would not jo:n them, they would root
move against them. The hon. member concluded, an.idst
signs of great impatisne., and loud erste of "dulls," by
declaring it to be his intenuon to vote fur the anion.
Mr. HUME said he had only to observe that is not one of
his statements with respect to the inequality of the present
reprieentative system had been noticed by those who op-
posed his motion, he should not feel called upon to moke any
reply to the speeches which had been made from the treasury
bench.

The house then divided.
The number+ were—
For the motion ....... 82
Against it
HEAL= OF TOWNS (SCOTLAND) BILL

On the motion of the Loan ADVOCATE, the following
gentlemen were appointed a sel• ct alumni:tee on the above
bill :—Tbe Lord Advocate, Mr. Hanky, Mr Craig, Mr.
bl'Gregor, Mr. Loch, Viscount Drumlanrisr, Colonel Mure,
Mr. Archibald Hastie, Mr. Oswald, Mr. M•Neill, Sir John
Hope, Mr. Elwaril El'ice, Mr. Stuart Wortley, Sit Henry
Davie, and Mr. Ale:lndia.. Matheson.
The Silver Coinage Bill was read a second time.
The Report upon Supply was brought up and aireed to,
and the house adjourned at half-past 12.

PARLLIMBNTARI DIVISION

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
NATIONAL REPRESENTATION.

Mortox made, a*:d quettion pmlxn•d,—" That leave be given to
bring in a trill to amend the national r prrAentatioit, by extending the
ketive regnebtee, was to include all boureholders ; by enacting tha•
"e 3 .halt be tette,. by hallo; that the duration of parliamen a ahall
not exceed dine year•. ani that the apportionment of re pretiehta ivea
be rendered more equal to t►e population."—;Mr. b 2 ;
Noes, 21A