The Express.
London, England, 1853-03-09 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 9, 1853.

posed to support the second reading of a bill the object of
which was to carry out works of vast importance-to the
whole of the metroplis. Of course he would support the
second reading, with • view to his having • fall opportunity
of examining the details in committee. On the details be
gave no opinion, but the principle and object of the bill
were worthy the attention of the house.
MINTS IN AUSTRALIA.
Mr. BASS said that an answer given by the Chancellor of
the Exchequer on the previous evening had led the public
to anticipate that the government was about to 'section the
erection of mints in Australis. Ile wished to know whe-
ther that anticipation was correct; and if so, in what part
of the colony would mints be established ?
Mr. WILSON said that government had come to the
conclusion, with reference to mints in Australia. that the
question was one rather for the colonies than the home
government; but he might add that the home government
was ready to give every facility in the matter. With roped
to the places where, the only place that had yet demanded
cash • convenience, and was willing to come forward with
Iheneeessary funds, was Sydney, from which 10,0001. had
be sent home towards the expense, which sum would be
Immediately applied in furtherance of the purpose intended.
With regard to other parts a Australia, government would
be ready, free of all charge to the home government, and
with proper regulations for securing the purity and weight
of the coin. to grant the establishment of mints wherever
they were demanded.
SHERIFFS' COURTS (SCOTLAND).
Mr. CRAUFUIID, in rising to ask for leave to bring
in • bill to alter the constitution of sheriffs courts
in Scotland, stated that his original intention was
to have moved for a committee of inquiry ; but the
Lord Advocate having given notice of a bill on the same
subject, he (Mr. Craufurd) had suspended his motien, in
the hope that the government measure would remedy all
the evils complained of. That bin had, however, completely
disappointed him, retaining as it did what he conceived to
be the great evil of the present system, namely, the
double sbrievalty in the Scottish counties. For these rea-
sons he hail determined upon introducing • bill, and if the
Lord Advocate did not oppose the second reading he would
consent to its reference to the same committee as the go-
vernment bill, when probably an efficient measure might be
extracted from both. The bill he now asked leave to in-
I troduce, went to abolish the offices of sheriffs' depute and
substitute, said empowered her Majesty to divide the counties
into districts, fa the establishment of local judges. It created
sheriffs in lieu of the sheriffs now existing, who should be
resident, and the only judges in matters of fact up to 504
At prewut the sheriffs had summary jurisdiction up to
51.65. Sid, and he proposed to extend it to 501., with
no appeal on matters of fact, nor any on matters of
law up to 251. It provided for the qualifications
of sheriff+ and defined their several powers—among
others that of deciding, with the consent of parties,
1 beyond 501., and of summoning witnesses from Eng-
land or Ireland. lie proposed to raise the salaries of the
judges, and to abolish the fees which formed part of their
present remuneration. No doubt many learned authorities
might be cited against his plan, but these were never the
foremost in matters of reform. If Sir Islay Campbell were
quoted against him he would remind his learned friend the
Lord Advocate, that that distinguished lawyer had also
said that 'if one of the five Exchequer Batons in Scot-
land were removed there would be an end to the admiais-
teatime of justice, and yet not many years afterwards
Lord Chancellor Brougham abolished the whole five.
The fact was that the success of the county courts in Eng-
land had made the people of Scotland impatient for speedy
and effectual justice, and it should not be forgotten that
these very county courts had been strenuously opposed
by the present Chief Justice of the Common Pleas.
What the people of Scotland required was that the same
system which had worked so well in England should be ex•
tended to them; that the two offices of sheriff depute and
sheriff substitute should be united, and that the procedure
of the Sheriffs' Courts should be assimilated to that of the
County Courts here. He also proposed that the appeal
should be direct to the Court of Session, instead of to en ad-
vocate sitting in Edinburgh, and that thus a complete
local, inexpensive, and speed system of administering jus-
tice should he established. The hon. gentleman proceeded
to state the provisions of his own bill, and his objections to
that of thu Lord Advocate. These objections he had taken
on the occasion when the Lord Advocate first introduced
his measure, which he (Mr. Craufurd) then stated to the
house would not satisfy Scotland. The defects in that bill
were the maintenance of written pleading', though in a
modified form, in all cases between 121. end 501, end of
the appeal to the non-resident sheriff in Edinburgh, merely
on the written statements against the judgment of a resi-
dent sheriff who had heard oral pleadings. The great evil
of the system was, that the appeal was both on the fact and
on the law. This necessitated the enormous mass of
writing which created the expense of proceedings in the
sheriff courts. The maintenance of the double sheriffs
mainly depended en the maintenance of this system of ap-
peal, and as the Lord Advocate took a determined
stand on the preservation of the office of sheriff's
deputy, he was necessarily precluded from eying fur-
ther than he had done in abolishing written plead-
ings. In his own bill he (Mr. Craufurd) at
once got rid of the difficulty by cresting one local compe-
tent judge who should decide all questions of fact without
any appeal up to 251., and beyond 251. up to 501., with an
appeal to the Court of Session on points of law, Objections
were made to this final power of deciding it facts, and, if
necessary, the means might be introduced for correcting
erroneous decisions such as existed in the English county
courts, viz., by granting • new trial on the facts before the
local judge, or by giving the parties the option of a jury.
This latter proviso he should not be disposed, however, to
ley mach weight on, as jury trials are not popular in Scot-
land. Whatever might he the settlement of the details, he
was satisfied of thin, that the bill he proposed to introduce
was a much more accurate representation of the want and
feeling of the great mass of the people in Scotland out of
Edinburgh than was the hill of the Lord Advocate. He
could adduce abundant evidence of that feeling, which was
embodied most prominently in the following reso-
lution passed at a very large meeting of bankers,
merchants, manufacturers, traders, and other inhabi-
tants of Glasgow, presided over by the Lord
Provost, which was as follows :—. That the bill in-
troduced into the House of Commons by the Lord Advo-
cate of Scotland for the improvement of the Sheriff Courts
of Scotland, c ntains various useful provisions ; but by per-
petuating the present system of double sheriffs, and the ex-
pense, delay, and uncertainty which are the unavoidable
consequence of this erroneous system, it falls far short of
the just expectations of the country." When he reflected
on the coarse so honourably and successfully pursued in
the establishment of County Courts by the present Under
Secretary of State for the Home Department, and that the
present Attorney-Oenerat who supported the County Court
movement, as well as his hon. friend the Secretary to the
Board of Control,awell-knownlawreformer and supporter of
ComateCourtsolow sat on theTreuury bench, he could not but
bust pad omen for the fate of the measure he now proposed
to bitssisee. The hon. gentleman then concluded by moving
far bases to bring in a bill teethe more speedy and effectual
adminlstration of justice in the Sheriffs' Courts in Scotland.
Mr. M'OREOOR, in seconding the motion, observed
that the object embraced in it was one that engaged the at-
tention of the whole of Scotland out of the Parliament
House of Edinburgh. The general opinion was that the
present system of local adjudication was but a remnant
of the heritable jurisdiction of ancient times, and the office
of sheriff was looked upon in the light of a ainecure retire-
ment for the Edinburgh advocates. The bill of the right
boa. gentleman, the Lord Advocate, though it undoubtedly
eantained much that was good, would not give satisfaction
in Scoehuid. What was demanded by the people of that
cesowy was local courts, founded as nearly as possible
upon the principle of the County Courts of England ; that
these courts should have jurisdiction to the extent of 501.,
, and that the appeal from their decision should be not
'to a single judge at Edinburgh, but to the Court of
Session. Believing that his hon. and learned friend's
' measure would meet the requirement, of the case, he bed
much pleasure in seconding this motion.
' The question having been put,
The LORD ADVOCATE, though not intending Is
oppose the' introduction of the bill, must say that he alii
not consider the course his hon. and learned blend bet
adopted was the most connient one. TM house was
aware that be (the Lord Advocate) iswebassil a WM Is
reference to theft courts early in the sasslow, eat Mil Awed '
the second reading for Thursday next, bet vaisillmilog
that the Scotch members were anxious to bays lbs
salty of consulting their constituents upon it, be=iiree.
tented to postpone it for another week, and he tbin& If ,
his hon. and, learned friend bad acted wisely, be would beige ,
deferred his motion until they had an opportunity of
to a knowlege of each other's sentiments on the se=
Fee himself, he had no other object in the matter but to
mum 9‘o Scotland the best and most efficient measure that
mid be devised, and to that end he should be glad to receive
Searetions from his hon. and learned friend, or any other
amen e? and as his hon. friend had stated that his
IMenleare would contain much that would tend to the reform
of Ibs wisiaistration of justice in Scotland, he could not, of
onsas. Ideas to consider its provisions. At the same time,
be met observe, that judging from the outline whtch had
boss given of the proposed bill, it was not likely that it
would meet with his support—for as he understood it from
that outline, so far from being a step in the way of reform,
it would lie a retrograde and mischievous movement (Hear,
i bear.) In his opinion the system which his hon. and
I learned friend attacked—that of having one judge to ad-
minister justice locally in each county with a superintend-
sue or supervision by a judge resident in Edinburgh and
attending the supreme courts—was one of great advantage,
,I, and had been productive of great benefits. (Hear,
hear.) Ills honourable friend, the member for
I Glasgow (Mr. M'Oregor) had drawn a conclusion, un-
favourable to his own country, between the Scotch and
the English law. Now though he did not mean to say that
the Scotch law was in all respects faultless, the theory of
that law was infinitely more scientific, and in its adminis-
tration in all respects superior to the English law. In fact,
the mesons which had been recently introduced for re-
forming and simplifying the administration of the law in
England were as near as possible founded on the basis of
the Scottish system. His hon. and learned friend proposed
to do away with the double jurisdiction—that of the sheriffs
principal end the sheriffs' substitute, but he would find that
that double juriadictien embraced • much larger question
than he appeared to be aware of. The sheriff in Scotland
was not • mere local judge having jurisdiction merely in
cases under 501. (and what he would do with cases
above that amount he had not stated), hut • large
proportion of the business of those courts involved amounts
above that sum, and net only that, hut they were also called
upon to adjudicate on questions of possession and disputed
right which could cot be estimated by money—and to bring
all these questions under a jurisdiction like that of the
county courts in England would be a novelty and an inno-
vation for which no reason bud been shown. and which he
believed would have an injurious effect. His objection to

the plan of his hon. and learned friend, so far as he under-
stood it, was, that in the int plies it would impair thejudi-
dal, and, is the second, that it would cut up by the roots,
the administrative functions of the sheriffs. (Hear, hear.)
It was said that the office of sheriff in Scotland was not
given as the reward fur high standing in the profession, and
that it was a mere sinecure. But what was the fact ? At
this moment there were see: a out of' the thirteen judges of
Scotland who had filled the office, and with regard to its
being a sinecure, though there might not be very much
business attaching to it in the smaller counties, in the
large counties the duties were onerous, and the labour
considerable. (Hear.) He regarded the office of sheriff in
Scotland as an infineatial balance of the legal system.
As regarded opinions on the subject, he would quote that
of Lord Campbell, then Attorney-General, who, in a de-
bate that took place in 1833 on • motion which had the
same object as the bill of his him. friend, expressed his ad-
miration of the system of sheriff's substitute, as well as the
plan of having • court of appeal in the sheriff depute
between the local court and the superior courts, and de-
clared his belief that the system had worked well. ilia
hon. friend said that his (the Lord-Advocate's) bill would
not be satisfactory to the country ; and that out of Edin-
burgh there was no difference of opinion as to the objects of
the bill of his hon. friend. He would not quote the opinion
of the faculty of advocates, because his hon. friend would
think nothing of that, but he could point to a resolution
passed at Dumfries in favour of his (the Lord-Advocate's)
measure, and he believed it was only one of many in Scot-
land. Ho would not yield to any one as • law reformer,
but he did not thick he forfeited that character in objecting
to the toll of his hon. friend.
Mr. HUME thought that the law of Scotland might be
made more iu consonance with the law of England, and he
was in favour of Mr. Craufurd's measure for that reason.

Mr. EWART wished to know whether the Lord Advo-
cate would object to the two bills going before a select com-
mittee, and whether such committee would be permitted
to hear evidence upon the subject.
Mr. F. MACKENZIE deprecated the course suggested;
and generally opposed the bill.
Mr. FERGUS saw in the bill not improvement, but
merely rash innovation, and was decidedly opposed to it.
Mr. WHITESIDE made a few suggestions.
Lord DRUMLANIIIG reinforced the opinions of the
Lord Advocate with some of his own. He considered the
bill ill-timed, and that precedence, at any rate, should be,
given to the government measure.
Mr. Forbes, Mr. Phillimore, and Mr. Dunlop took various
views of the subject.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought that the proper principle was
to combine the advantages of local and central government ;
and this he believed to be secured by the arrangement
which Mr. Crsufurd proposed to overthrow. At the same
time he was most anxious to secure any reforms which were
likely to be beneficial to Scotland.
The discussion was continued by Mr. Napier, Mr. Cowan,
Mr. Cumming Bruce, Mr. Duncan, Mr. Archibald Hastie,
and Mr. Elliott, who rung the changes upon the points
started by preceding speakers.
Mr. CRAUFURD in a brief reply expressed much re-
gret at the cows* the government seemed inclined to pursue
b 7 adopting at once the principle of the Lord-Advocate's
bill as a foregone conclusion.
The motion was then agreed to.

TIIR NATIONAL GALLERY.
Colonel MOHR then moved the awpointment of a select
committee to inquire into the mansgement of the National
Gallery; also to consider in what mode the collective
monuments of antiquity end fine art possessed by the nation
may be most securely preserved, judiciously augmented,
and advantageously exhibited to the public. He said that
no longer since than the year 18.50 a committee of this house
was engaged in a very similar kind of investigation, and it
bad produced a report founded on a valuable body of evi-
dence. That committee, he believed, was suggested in
a great degree by the excitement which at that time
prevailed, owing to injuries alleged to have been
committed on several fine paintings by a rash process of
cleaning. But similar as might appear to be the object of
the two committees, and short as might appear the interval
between them, there were various circumstances that tended
to justify the renewal of the late inquiry. In the first
place there could be no doubt that a great advance had
taken place both in the state of public opinion, and in the
spirit of discussion relative to our art institutions since the
year 1050, owing is a great measure to the great exhibition,
which gave a new stimulus and improved direction to the
enterprise of the country in almost every branch of
artistic and industrial pursuits. But although the commit-
tee of 1850 went carefully into the question of cleaning, it
did not appear to him to have altogether exhausted the sub-
I jest. He thought some distinct expression of opinion should
emanate from the House of Commons, were it only to tran-
quillise the public mind and to assure the public that the
legislature was not indifferent to the matter.
- - -

Mr. EWA RT, in wending the motion, said he re.
joked that his honourable friend had not limited it
simply to the question of cleaning the pictures, but
had wisely extended the motion to the general question.
lle would confine his observations to two points,—
first, as to the management of the National Gallery; and,
secondly, as to the collection. The management had fluc-
tuated in an extraordinary manner between the Treuury
and the trustees. They ought to have another system. It
ought to be placed under the management of learned pro-
gnoses and of those who devoted their time to matters of
this kind. The collection he considered was not half ex-
tensive enough. The architect, he believed, was asked if
be had made provision for sculpture, and he said no. When
asked why not, he replied that the minister of the day never
gave hint to understand that a gallery for sculpture
was required. The gallery ought to contain those beautiful
drawings which contained the first ideas of the great mas-
ters. If they went to the Louvre they had free access to
such drawings, but here they were buried, or at all events,
somewhat concealed in the British Museum. Then at the
Louvre for two or three francs, they could get fee similes of
these drawirgs, which was a great advantage. In 1836
Mr. Woodburn offered to sell to the country for a small sum
a great collection of the first drawings of some of the great
masters, collected by no less a person than Sir Thomas Law-
rence, but the offer was not accepted, and some of them he
believed had gone to Bavaria and others to Russia. He was
glad to say that some of them remained, and had been
collected at Oxford. It might be said it would be difficult
to form a collection of this kind. But this was not impos-
sible. These drawings were often on sale, and if they
seised the opportunity they might easily make a collection.
Experience showed that it might be done. It had been
done within a few ) ears at Berlin, under the superinten-
dence of an Englishman. The plan of the late Chancellor
of the Exchequer appeared to be one for uniting the schools
of design, the National Gallery, and all the other branches
of ornamental art; and be thought that the offer made to
bestow a portion of :the land at Kensington for the esta-
blishment of such an institution war one that would prove
of the greatest service to the country. He was surprised
that the proposal bad been received with so much coldness ;
but in that respect it was like the Great Exhibition itself ;
but, like the Great Exhibition, it would ultimately create
the warmest enthusiasm. (Hear, hear.) He rejoiced that
this right bon. gentleman had extended his motion so as to
embrace a great variety of subjects; and he trusted that a
beginning was about to be made that would lead to results
of the greatest advantage to the country. _

Mr. B. WALL did not object to the appointment of the
committee; on the contrary, he felt indebted to his hon.
and gallant friend for having undertaken a task which he
would find would prove to be no slight one. For himself
he bad a most anxious desire that this committee should be
the last. (Hear, hear.) There had been committee after
committee, and commission after commission, and there
was now • strong wish, out of doers at all events, that some
decision should at length be come to. He hoped that the
members of the committee would not enter upoa the en.
quiry as partisans, and that the government would be pre-
pared to lay some satisfactory information before the house,
in order that they might know how they stood, because the
reports of the different committees and commissions had
been most contradictory. Not to go back further than
HMO, a committee was formed to inquire into the same
subjects as those now proposed to be gone into. No sooner
had that committee separated than a commission wee ap.
pointed, which recommended one of two sites for a gallery,
the one to which they gave their preference being in Bays-
water-road. The house never decided upon the point, and
a new commission was issued, which had no sooner reported I
than it was thrown over by a subsequent decision, 150,0001.
being granted by government upon the condition that
150,0001. from the Great Exhibition fund should be
added go it. That 300,0001., it seemed, was to be
disposed of without the vote of the house; and It had
turned out that the scientific societies which it was pro-
posed to accommodate under the same roof had refused the
offer. He hoped that the house would require some furthet
information before it consented to remove the National
Gallery ; and ones more he trusted that the committee
which had been moved for would be the last. (Hear.)
Mr. H. D. SEYMOUR waggled that a csmmittee was to
be appointed, because the public mind required to be satis-
fied on several points. As to the picture cleaning there
was a general impression that the pictures had been Injured
by the process; and he wondered that the government, as
trustees of the public property, had not thought themselves
bound to interfere. (Hear, hear.) As to the question of
management, while he entirely agreed with Mr. Ewart as
to the desire of uniting sculpture and the other attendaat
arts with painting, he entirely dissented from the plan
put forth in a pamphlet which he supposed had re-
ceived the sanction of the government, from the
fact that its author had recently been appointed
to an important office—namely, that the pictures
should be removed from the control of the trustees, and
placed under that of the keeper of the national pictures.
lie looked upon this as quite a crisis in the history of art.
The natural way would be to leave the artists and the peo-
ple of this country to settle their own relations between
themselves ; but another way was to introduce a continental
system, namely, to establish a state education in art, at d a
protective system with regard to artists. That was a ques-
tion that would require the greatest deliberation. (Hear,
hear.) Another point was the precise limit of the commit-
tee's inquiry ; and he should have been glad if that had
been more distinctly defined than was the case in the reso-
lution. As to the removal of the National Gallery to Ken- '
sington, the committee would no doubt be guided by the
evidence laid before them. The subject was one upon
which public opinion ought to be consulted. Sir Charles
Barry had stated that the site in Trafalgar-square was, far
sgricultural—(lauphter)— he meant architectural purposes,
the finest in the world; and before they gave up such a
site—the very eye of London, as it were—they ought to
have some evidence as to the feelings of the inhabitants of
the metropolis on the subject. ( 'Ulcers.)
Sir 0. STRICKLAND thou,ht the committee would bo
more likely to be • useful one, if its inquiries had some
limits, inttead of rambling into everything in the world that
had reference to the fine arts. The hon. member for Dum
tries had proposed to include matters that properly belonged
to the province of the British Museum. As to the pictures

themselves, he would only say that as far as his own opinion
went, many of the finest had been totally destroyed by
what was called cleaning. (Hear, bear.) 'There were se-
veral pictures which for a large portion of his life he had
been accustomed to admire, he only now looked upon with
disgust and shame. (Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL could not ssy that he agreed with
the hon. geot:eman who had last spoken, fur he not only
thought that the matter could not be in better hand., but
dirt the hon. and gallant member had chosen very judici-
ous)y the terms of his resolution; because although no
doubt the committee would inquire into the manner in
which the pictures in the National Gallery had been pre-
served, and whether the cleaning bad or had net injured
them, yet there were some other subjects of weightier mo-
ment that would require their attention. (Hear, hear.)
The committee might direct their inquiries to obtain
the opinions of those gentlemen who were best
qualified to give them upon various important subjects.
Fur instance, it was a question of great importance to
ascertain whether the pictures and other monuments of art
which we possessed might not become more of a national
collection than it was at present. (Hear, hear.) It had
always struck him that the National Gallery was rather such
a collection as a private individual would make, than such a
one as a nation ought to possess. (Hear, hear.) It was
evident that there were many pictures and drawings which
belonged to the first beginnings of art, and which a collector
might not wish to have in his house, preferring rather to
employ his money in buying more beautiful productions;
and yet that those works might be of the greatest value
both to artists, and to a nation that desired to show in its
collection the history of the fine arts. (Hear, hear.)
Whether it was possible, considering the various titles by
which the national pictures were held—there were, for
instance, many in the British Museum—whether it was
possible to make such a collection was a matter upon which
he could give no opinion at present; but he could see many
difficulties in the way, that the committee would have care-
fully to consider. With respect to one matter which he
had more than once mentioned to the trustees •1
the National Gallery, it was an object that it would
not be difficult to accomplish—he meant to obtain
a collection of the early Mahon masters. (Hear, hear.)
These were pictures, beautiful indeed in themselves, but
more valuable as showing the progress of art; and that was
In object which he believed, witheutany great expenditure
of money, they might reach. (Hear, hear.) Ile hoped
that the hon. and gallant gentleman would not desist from
his labours, and that they would be attended with useful
results. He should agree to the committee. (Cheers.)
Mr. J. BELL considered that the plans of the royal com-
mission for the Exhibition had, in several respects, come to
an erroneous conclusion. In the first place, the learned
societies had refused to go to the proposed building. The
secretary of the Geographical Society in particular bad
stated, that at present he was in constant communication
with the governmeat OiliCes, and that that would be total y
put an end to if they moved to such a distance. In fact,
the learned societies would rather not accept the govern-
ment patronage than have it upon terms which would prove
their utter ruin. Again, if the National Gallery were moved,
it could not be taken to a worse place than to Kensington.
Mr. Uwins said that the site of the Exhibition was the

worst in the park, and Kensington was much lower than
that. Mr. Faraday stated that for smoke Kensington
would De just as bad as Trafalgar-square. Sir Chas. East-
lake said that if they removed the gallery to Kensington it
would have to be opened on Sunday. (Hear, bear.) In
fact, the site was in a mere corner of London, and the
most uneentral that could be selected. Were it adopted
the prophecy of Mr. Uwins would very likely be fulfilled—
namely, that the pictures would not be so much injured by
dust, because the attendance would be se much smaller.
He (Mr. Bell), however, thought that the number who
frequented the gallery was not a thing to be guarded
against, but was a subject for cougratulation. (Hear,
hear.) With respect to the proposed union of all the de-
partments of art, no one who had visited the magnificent
gallery at Berlin could deny that that would be a most de-
sirable object ; but any advantaffe of that kind might be
purchased too dear. It was obvious that the gallery could
not be taken to the British Museum ; and if they emptied
the Museum of its contents they would be throwing out of
use a building which had cost upwards of a million of
money. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. HUME recollected the time when he had been ob-
structed in all hie endeavours to throw open the public col-
lections as a means of forming the public taste ; but he had
lived to see those collections have a most remarkable effect

on the taste, not only of the middle and lower clause, but
of the highest ranks in society. He doubted, however,
whether the hon. and gallant member's resolution did not
embrace too much. The management of the National Gal-
lery was a subject upon which the public desired to have
some information ; and five years ago he had moved for
papers with a view to assist them in arriving at
some knowledge upon the matter. Sir Robert Peel
had assented to his motion, and the papers were
produced. He found that the trustees had no in-
structions for their guidance ; and that the board
consisted of one of those onsnium-gathsrunss of great men

who attended to nothing. (Laughter.) There were on it
the First Lord of the Treasury, and the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, who had enough to do in their own depart-
ments; Mr. Samuel Rogers, who, like himself, was much
the worse for wear and could be of little assistance ; the
Duke of Sutherland, the Earl of Ellesmere,and other noble
lords; Mr. T. Baring, who had been on another commission
with him (Mr. Hume), and never attended ; and, lastly,
Sir Charles Eastlake. Sir Charles was, in fact, the com-
mittee himself. (Hear, hear.) Then he found in the
minutes that three or four meetings had positively been
held to settle whether a man should have 11.45. (Laughter.)
He found also minutes of the refusal of pictures offered to
be presented. The public would like to have some ex
planation of that. (Hear, hear.) Perhaps it was
that they had no room. Now what he wanted
to see was, more room and better management. (Cheers.)
There was capital enough in this country to form a school
of art of our own, and one that would be worthy of the
age in which we lived. (Hear, hear.) The management,
however, unfortunately was but peddling, and did not
take a sufficiently enlarged view of the case. (Hear, hear.)
He did not desire to see any concentration of our galleries.
He would much rather have them kept separate, so as to be
available for a larger portion of the population. In parti-
cedar he wished the gallery at Hampton Court to be re-
tained. If the National Gallery must be removed to Ken-
sington, why not make use of the Palace ? He did not see
why that large building should be held by a late Secretary
to the Admiralty. (Hear, hear,) However he had come to
the conclusion that Kensington was the worst site that
could be selected. He would rather remove the barracks
and buy up the workhouse behind Trafalgar-
moaare, and enlarge the present gallery. (" Oh, oh.")
MIMI was in fact almost the only point upon which Sir
Charles Barry and himself agreed. (Laughter.) It was •
mistake to suppose that the people of England had no taste
far the fine arts. He believed that many hon. gentlemen
paint would live to see the day when they would not only
bays more taste, but would have better opportunities at-
forded them of forming that taste than were possessed by
any of the nations of the continent. (Hear, hear.) Let
the hon. and gallant gentleman, then, not be afraid of
making a beginning, and he had no doubt the result would
be serviceable to the country. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said that as some hon. gentlemen
Aga gh t the motion included too much, and others too little,
lime was room left for the comfortable belief that it had
easily been framed in a very judicious manner. (Hear,
hear.) It appeared to be supposed that the government
were absolutely pledged to the removal of the National
Gallery ; but he was informed that no such decision had
been come to. (Cheers.) Nothing had been done, in ease
the 'ehire opinion was adverse to its removal, that would
render it necessary. (Cheers.) With respect to the clean-
ing of the pictures, very strong expressions had been made
use of as to the injurious effects of the process ; but he
thought that rimething was due to public servants of high
character ; and he trusted that nothing would be prejudged
which they had done in the performance of their (linty. Mr.
Segue had done all he had with the greatest care and under
the constant superintendence of Mr. Uwins. Indeed, he
(Mr. Gladstone) had a letter from Mr. Segue, in which he
said, " I assure you that in all my vary extensive practice,
I don't recollect any pictures which have proved more to
my satisfaction." (Hear, hear.) It would be much fairer,
then, to all parties, as the matter was about to undergo a
close investigation, that they should suspend their judgment
for the present.
Mr. LOCKE regarded with some alarm the introduction
of a foreign system, and on a previous occasion be had ex-
premed his sentiments on the subject ; but as the right hon.
gentleman had stated that the government were not pledged
to the removal of the gallery, he should not trespass upon
them with any remarks. They ought never to forget that
great school which already existed for the development of
those great branches of manufacturing industry and in-
genuity, upon which the prosperity of the country so mainly
depended.
The motion was then agreed to.
PROBATE OF WILLS.

Mr. HADFIELD presented petitions from the North
Western Railway, the capital of which was 22,000,0001.,
and from the solicitors of Sheffield, complaining of the in-
conveniences of the present laws relating to the probate of
wills. The hon. gentleman then moved for leave to bring
in a bill to prevent the necessity of obtaining several pro-
bates of the same will, and several grants of administration
in respect to the estate and effects of any deceased person ;
and to make certain amendments in the law of evidence in
respire to the proof of wills, and of probates and grants of
administration. The bill would be an exceedingly short
one. It would make one probate sufficient, and it would
also enact that the probate should be proof of the devise of
a real estate as it was of personal property. Inconvenient
w4the present system was in England, it was of trifling
moment compared with what was the case in Scotland and
Ireland. He congratulated the house on the recent speech
of the Solicitor-General; but the matter he was introduc-
ingts heir notice was of too pressing a character to be
Postponed until some general measure of reform should be
introduced. Ile had conferred with the hon. and learned
gentleman, and he had his sanction for saying that he
would not oppose at least the introduction of the bill.
Mr. BROWN seconded the motion, and expressed his
belief that great public convenience would result from the
measure if it passed into a law.
Mr. IL PHILLIMORE said he would not oppose the
introduction of the bill, which if it were what It professed,
would confer a great benefit en the country. Ile knew a
case where it was necessary to obtain probate both iu York
and Canterbury, and also to get a certified will from the
colonies. (Hear, bier.) Still he thought the alteration
ought to form part of the general measure promised by the
government, which, if e 6 (live, would entitle them to last-
ing gratitude. No greater public benefit could be conferred
than by placing the whole testamentary jurisdiction of the
country under one control. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. COWAN spoke to the inconvenience felt in Scotland
from the evil complained of, and hoped that Scotland

I would, if possible, be embraced in this hill, or at any r_te
would receive the benefits of any int.woved
IMMO was then given to bring in the bill.
THE LEOMINSTER PETITION.
The SPEAKER announced that he had received an in-
timation from the petitionen against the return of Mr. J.
G. Phillimore for Leominster, and that it was not their in-
tention to proceed with the petition.
The order for further proceedings on the petition was

then discharged.
ASSURANCE ASSOCIATIONS.
Mr. WILSON, in moving for a select committee on as-
surance associations, said it was impossible to name any
subject containing principles of greater difficulty, or
one on which more di ity of opinion prevailed,
than that involving the interferenro of the go.

vernment in trading amsociations. It was impossible to Iciok
at insurance associations without regarding them in that
light. It might be properly said, on one hand, that so long
as the principle of public and open competition was relied
upon, the interference of the government in any way what-
ever was rather likely to create a false reliance on the
power of the government, and thereby inflict an injury
rather than a benefit on the public relying on such security.
On the other hand, it was fairly contended, with regard to
associations of this description, which came to the legisla-
ture for peculiar privileges, that it was the bounden duty
of that house, in granting those privileges, of whatever
character or description, to accompany such grant with pro-
per aecuritit s to the public that those privileges should be
used for their advantage. He would not attempt to decide
between those two opinions ; but if the principle of inter-
ference were admitted at all—as it had been—they ought
to take care, while interfering as little as possible with
tho principle of private competition, to confer on
the public the security which that interference
professed to give. He wished to guard himself
against being supposed to he the advocate of one class or
the other. Out of the house there was a strong contention
between the old, or proptietary offices, and the new, which
were generally established on the principle of mutual
association. Let the house understand that the government
had, and could have, no object whatever in advancing the
interests of one of these classes in preference to the other.
The only object they had was to see that the privileges
sanctioned by act of parliament were not so far abused as to
place the public in a condition of insecurity, from which
they had a right to be protected by that house. The enor-
mous magnitude to which these associations had grown was
perhaps not generally understood, or the enormous amount of
capital invested in the handsel( their managers. In Scotland
alone,the liabilities of fifteen insurance offices had now risen to

33 millions sterling; the assets already paid up amounted
to via millions sterling ; Jind their annual incomes exceeded
one and a half million. Taking Great Britain, without
including Ireland, the house would be astonished to hear that
the capital of these institutions amounted to no less than
1.50 millions sterling at the smallest estimate ; and their
aggregate income from premiums—paid by the moat deserv-
ing and best classes of society—(hear, hear)—who were
justly and properly entitled to the guardianship of the
nouse, from the providence they exhibited, and the great
amount of self-denial they exercised in this enormous
annual saving—was not less than five millions sterling,'
equal almost to the entire amount of the income tax.
(Rear, hear.) When site house knew the unsatisfactory
way in which these institutions were conducted—new ones
springing into existence one day, and falling like an autumn
leaf the next—(hear, hear)—they would hardly allow the
system to go on without taking means to place it on a
More satisfactory basis than that on which it now rested.
(Hear, hear.) One of the earliest thing; that attracted the
attention of the government was the abuse of these insti-
tutions. As they were formed under acts of parliament, it
was impossible for the government to stand by, with their
eyes open, and allow them go on without at least
making some effort to call public attention to them,

and, b a parliamentary Imp*, to discover some means
whereby so important a trust ought be placed on a more
sure and satisfactory basis. (Hear, hear.) Every one
would agree a. to the enormous utility which these associ-
ations were capable of yielding to the public. He knew of
no modern institutions or inventions which, in a social point
of view, were of greater importance than the establishment
of these offices, calculated as they were to win people to
provident habits, and to supply them with an easy and
facile mode of making provision for the future and for there I
who were to follow them. (Hear.) Just in proportion u'
this was the case, and as the public felt the importance of I
these institutions, should they strive to place them on such
a footing as should give that securPv to the public which
should induce them to use them to die greatest possible ex-
tent; for in proportion to the extent to which they were
used was the benefit they were calculated to confer on
the community. In another point of view, they
might be looked upon as a most admirable mode
of accumulating the capital of the country in
funds of large amount, capable of being used for purposes
of a kind to which banking deposits and blinking assets
could not be proierly applied. The landed interest and
public op rations of vitriol's kinds had derived the greatest
possible benefit from thine funds, owing tithe circumatvnce
that they could be invested for much longer periods than
the funds of bankers. As an example of the benefits likely
to be derived from funds so accumulated, he might mention
that a number of lons made on the security of the govern-
ment for the purpose of carrying on improvements in the
West Indies and other parts of the Briish dominions, had
been chiefly taken by the insurance offices. Thus those
funds which had been accumulated for the future benefit of
individuals, became in the meantime most useful for pur-
poses of public utility. It was impossible to over-estimate
the responsibility of those who undertook the management
of those institutions; and he should be glad could he feel
any degree of assurance that in every case the gentlemen
who undertook to bring into existence such companies,
felt the weight and responsibility of what they were doing,
and only did so with a view to the advantage of
those whose advantage they professed to consult. He
should feel comfortaole if he believed that all these insti-
tutions were started with the bona fide objects which
professed, and were not, as in too many cases he believed
they were, mere covers for fraud upon those insuring with
them. (Hear, hear.) The character of these institution
was different from almost every other joint stock company
existing under the act of 1844. In banks and other joint
stock companies the responsibility was not so great. If
a person was dissatisfied with a bank, he had only to
close his account. If a bank broke great loss was indicted
, upon the community, but that loss was momentary. In a
tire insurance office, a party paid his premium for a year;
and at the expiration of the year he might renew his policy,
or not, as he pleased. If he doubted the solvency or re-
sponsibility of the office, he might remove his insurance.
But with regard to life insurance, it was quiie a different
thing: whatever doubts a man might feel, be was hardly
in a position to change. (Hear, hear.) Ile therefore
looked upon these institutions much more is the character
of a sacred trust for the future than as an investment for
the present ; because the present payment was to secure a
future return years hence, and individuals were induced to
make great sacrifice. and exercise great self-denial for ben*
fits which they would never themselves enjoy, but which •
sense of duty made them endure, in order the better to
provide for those who should follow them. (Hear, hear.)
Therefore these associations might be taken fairly out of
the strict category of commercial institutions; and if the
legislature professed to regulate joint-stock banks and other
companies, they were doubly justified in interfering with
regard to those institutions. But whatever might be the
difference of opinion on the question of interference, they
had not now to judge whether they should interfere or not.
They had interfered—(hear, bear)—so far as to make the
public rely upon that interference ; they had become to a
certain extent responsible for the good management of these
concerns, t ecause they had given them parliamentary sane-
tion; and having done so, they could not now argue the
question of interference or non-interference. Having in-
terfered, it became their duty to see that that inter-
ference was as effectual fur the purpose as possi-
ble, and that, under the shadow of that inter-
ference, gross frauds were not perpetrated upcn the
public. The act for the regulation of joint-stock companies
(7 and 8 Victoria, passed in 18.14). provided that these in-
stitutions should be registered, like other joint-stock eons.
pauies, and that each company should furnish to the joint-
stock company register-office an annual balance-sheet,
showing the state of their affairs. He extremely regretted
to say—and this was fealty the ground on which the govern.
meat felt bound to take further steps—that both those
securities had been grossly violated and abused. (Hear,
hear.) The registration bad in many cases been a name,
and not a reality. (Hear, hear.) The act required that
the deed of the company should be registered, and that,
before complete registration could take place, the deed
should be signed by a certain proportion of the partners,
and a certain proportion of the capital subecri3ed. Bat it
was • notorious fact, that the greatest possible frauds and
deceits were committed in this process of registration.
(Hear, hear.) Two or three persons wishing to get up a
company hail no difficulty in prevailing on 30 or 40 others
to put down their names as subscribers, who, cn inquiry,
could not be found. It frequently happened there were
no such persons; and more frequently still, when their
circumstances were inquired into, they were found to be
men of no responsibility whatever. (Hear, hear.) A recent
report from the assistant registrar of joint-stock
companies was conclusive as to the evil operation
of that part of the act, and fully pointed out
the mode in which these frauds were perpetrated.
The other test which had been provided by the act, for
securing the solvency and respectability of these concerns—
namely, that of having an annual balance-sheet, was as
much evaded as the other. (Hear, hear.) It was impos-
sible for any person to discover any deficiency in the bal-
ance-sheets of the various companies, as contained in the
returns laid before parliament. There was nothing false on
the fame of these documents and accounts. But every one
knew that the production of these balance-sheets was • mere
sham and delusion. In 25 offices which hailsubmitted their
accounts, the premiums received amounted to 426,0001.;
and the cost of manag. meet to 287,0001. ; leaving a compa-
ratively small balance out of nearly half a million.
(Hear, hear.) In the face of facts like this, it would be
criminal in the executive government to stand still with
folded acme. (Hear, hear.) At the same time he was
bound to say, that cases of this kind were the exception;
and that the great hulk of the offices were, under proper
management, not only solvent, but prosperous. There was,
therefore, no ground for unnecessary alarm in the public
mind. (Hear.) The accounts were clear, and there was
no reason why the public should suspend their habits of
providence, or their confident c in offices of respectability,
iu consequence of the facts stated and the inquiry proposed.
If, in consequence of this inquiry, the public would be better
able to distinguish between those offices which were sound
and good and those which were bail and unsound, they
could proceed with the greater secueity in their sc's and
habits of providence. We did not wish to interfere unneces-
sarily with existing offices or with future offices. His ob-
ject was, that the security they gave should be of a real
character, and not mere shams and delusion,. (Hear, hear.)

It had been proposed that joint-stock e..sup ones sboull ba
subjected to the test of paying up a pertion of their capital
before registration, as a proof of their lama tides; for it was
said that some of them, as they were now got up, deserved
rather the appellation of swindling concerns. (Hear, bear.)
He begged to call the attention of the house to the number
of offices which had been projected and established sine.
the passing of the act in 1844. No fewer than 355 bad been
projected in London since 1841. Of the-e 149 had bees
founded, and of those which were founded 90 bad ceased
to exist, so that 59 had come into existence since that pu-
rled. Lest year—for every year things were getting worse_
72 had been registered, 18 were founded, and 12 existed.
(Hear, hear.) Now, although 12 of these only contioueil to
exist, there could be no doubt that considerable sums of
money were drawn from the public for those which never
existed at all. (Hear, hear.) They could not, therefore,
go on any looter without inquiry. (Hear, hear ) Ile ae.
knowledged the great utility of these institutions, but it
was necessary that the subject should be sifted in order to
see whether the provisions of the act of parliami ut could
not he made effectual, and whether parliament could in its
wisdom devise any further provisions for the public protec-
tion. (Hear, hear )
A discussion followed, in which Mr. Whalley, Mr.
Forster, Mr. Brotherton, Mr. Daniell, Mr. Hume, Mr. T.
Chambers, and Mr. Sotheron, took part. The opinions ex-
essed were generally favourable to the inquiry ; but Mn.
Hume and Mr. T. Chambers were very decidedly art opi-
nion that any legislation upon the subj,et was unnecessary,
and that the public could take care of itself; which Mr.
Chambers believed to be proved by the tact of the large
number and immense wealth of so many good societies, and
the rapid failure of so many had ones.
THE EASTER HOLIDAYS.

Lord J. RUSSELL said he wished to give a notice which
he had not been able to give before. It was that on Friday
the 18th instant he should propose the adjournment of the
house from that day till Monday the 4th of April, and that
be should also propose that on Thursda)l after Easter orders
of the day should take precedence of motions.
THE SHIP NOVELLO.

On the motion olgri MC*NTz the following members were
nominated a select committee to inquire into the seizure of
the ship Novello : Mr. Muntz, Lord Star li y, Sir F. Baring,
Mr. Spooner, Mr. Cowper, Mr. A. Hattie, Mr. K. Sumer,
Mr. Price, and Col. Boldero.
CAPTURE OF THE SHIP VIOLET BY PIRATES.

Mr. WHALLEY stated that in constquence of a promise
from her htlitsty's government to take this subject into
consideration, he should postpone his motion with respect
to it until that day week.

TILE STRANGERS' GALLERY.
On the motion of Mr. MtNri a select committee was ap-
pointed to inquire if the reporters and strangers may he
allowed to remain in the house during divisions, excepting
on special occasions; and, if possible, to devise some plan
by which the time allowed between the divisions being de-
clared and the doors being closed shall be correctly and
satisfactorily determined.