The Express.
London, England, 1853-02-24 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

NOUSE OF CONIMONB.-WEDNESDAT, Fn. 23.
The Simotst took the chair at 12 o'clock.
SOUTHAMPTON ELECTION.
The committee to try this election, comprising Mr. 11. A.
Herbert, Mr. J. A. Smith, Sir J. Walsh. Lord liothsra,
and Mr. Ursad, were sworn in, and directed to mut at 12
**clock to-morrow (this day).

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
SECOND READINGS.
The following bills were read a second time :—Allendale
Road; Belfast and Ballymena Railway ; Chard Railway;
Cork and Bandon Reilwat;
_peeping Fen Drainage;
Gravesend sad Wrotham Road ; Nantwich and Woore
Northate• .
67.1 S'"lth Wt."-• Junction Railway; Nor.
wfch .11-e St. 11.'•
• •• versa K :chesty, • .
itarbour ; Shipley and lirauiley Road; Westport Port sod
Harbour ; Bills.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PETI (lONS PRESENTED.
7IANCIIIIIII TO Tut UNITIRAITT or Loam:ie.—By
Mr. HADFIELD. hum Sheffield; Mr. IIU ME, lees the
make:a uSLiers uf tbe Charing-erow, Ln0,".00. and Liver-
pool Ilespitals, praying T for; Mr. lIORN.ALY, from he
sad meantime of Mill Hill seaml, and St. Ives,
ileutineilooshire. praypresening
ted in that ruin ales of the London
lilnivensty ry he re P art. ameut.
Tun MALT T*l.—By Sir. FRE WEN, from Sneers,
er Met the nosh tel.
Teens ns IsisowiLutson.—By Mr. lIUME, from Picker-
ing, in Vorkshire ; Mr. COS OEN. from Wakefield, for
1k • repeal of the taus an knoirled_ge.
PAUL! . PAPS** To MEONANICS.INITITCTIA.
—By kly.li ADE I ELD. Newt Sheffield ; lir O'FL A ERT Y,
kale Gainey ; Mr. MOODY, from Crewkense, preying fur
Vie supply or parliamentary papers to iseshanice institutes.
Auutss:,,:s ur Jews To PAKLIANDier—By Mr. WAL-
POLE, trom a place not tamed • Sir IL INGLIS, from Dur-
sotshire ; aral Mr. ADDERIKY, from Staffordshire;
against the removal of the profeemien of the faith of a
Christian by members of parliament.
'I CliT•r.% I. Pram's —By Sir R. INGLIS, from
Derby ; Mr. MASTERS SMITH, from working men of
the diarist at Chapelry of Linton, in the parish of Chat-
ham ; Mr. MOODY, from Kingston, against the opening
of t e Crystal Palms on Sundays.
Larvae eAlielliall.—By Mr. BREMRIDOE, from the
linter carriers of Bedford and Ilfracombe. Devonshire;
Mr. C. TURNER, from the letter-carriers of Liverpool; Mr.
BA IN Ks irons Bolton; in favour of better remuneration to
letter-carriers, and complaining of the order prohibiting
Christmas hose,.
INereCTlos or NUNNlalite.—By Mr. MOODY, from
Button Montle, against the establishment of Jesuits and
menhir, sr d for the inspection of ries , and against
the intmduction of papal bulls.
Wirral. or Ties .BUTT ON 80.41. AND TEA. By Mr.
BAINES, from mayor and aldermen at Bolton, for.
°DIAN PENNY POSTAOI.—By Mr. H. HENEAGE,
from the borough of Devises, in favour of.
SALT or Sri Itini.—By Mr. COBDEN, from the Anti-
Spirit Dealing Asseeiatios, Glasgow, praying for restriction
meal. sod mania iciures of spirits.
ELIMILMTS or Tile Aerosrutral.—By Mr. BERM-
RIDGE, from Wm. Parker, surgeon of Birkenhead, for a
commisatue to inquire into the physical causes of the ele-
ments of oar atmosphere.
MATNOoTtiI °SANT. —By Mr. MOODY, from Welling-
ton; Mr. KINNAIRD, from Perth, and from the free
church congregation of Lavers Lochtayride, Breadalbase
(265 signatures); Mr. P. BENNE UT, from the mayor and
inhabitants of Sudbury; Mr. HAMILTON, from Protes-
tant Institution, Islington ; Parish of St.. Mary's, Isling-
ton; Parishes of Briuldi Id, Cockfiehl, and Lsvenham,
Buff ilk ; and P.irish of St. Andrew's. Holborn ; Mr. M.
SMIT 11, from the working men of the district at Chapel',
of Linton. in the parish of Chatham; against.
COUNTY RATES AND EXPENDITURE BILL.

Mr. M. GIBSON, its moving the second rending of this
bill, said the subject had been before parliament for the last
20 years. After the Reform Bill, committee of both the
Lords sod Commons sat on this subject, and it was then
admitted that the ratepayers should have some voice in the
county expenditure. A commission was next appointed,
and which recommended that the ratepayers should act in
conjunction with the magistrates, in the control of the
couuty-rater, and the principle of representation was
recognised. His hon. friend, the member for Montrose, in-
troduced a bill for this object ; but after a straggle gave it
up ; and he (Mr. Gibson) had removed it front his hands.
Ho was sorry to lay he had been obliged to make great con-
ceuivas and alterations in the principle in order to get
such an instalment of letti.iation on the subject es be
could. The present bill had the support of members on
both sides of the house. It was, in fact, a liberal conser-
vative measure, as it gave • representative power to the
ratepayers and yet continued the itifluence and cnatrol of
the magistrates When the bill was introduced In 1830, it
was referred to • select committee, which reported in favour
of the representative principle. It was again introduced
in 1851, and again referred to • select committee, and alte-
rations made in it with which he (Mr. Gibson)
did not quite nth*. He should have preferred
the hill being in the hands of the government.
But the government did not show any disposition to take
it up, and it was a matter of duty in him to promote the
bill, hoping that in its progress the government would as-
sist in carrying it. He was encouraged in this by the de-
claration of the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, who
stated that the government had no objection to the intro-
duction of tho representative system into the management
of the affairs of this country, and he saw no reason why it
should not be applied to the control of county expendi-
ture. He (Mr. Gibson), therefore, claimed the vote of that
right hon. gentleman fur the second reading. He also
claimed the support of those members who were adhe-
rents of Sir Hobert Feel, who admitted the prin-
ciple of representation in the master of county rates, and
that opinion was then echoed by the present First
Lord of the Admiralty. He also t'aimed the votes of the
Whigs who always supported the principle that representa-
tion like that in our municipal institutions should be ex-
tended to county management. (The right hon. gen-
tleman then referred to the alterations made in the present
bill as contra-distingnished from that of 1861.) The first
material alteration was that in the constitution of the
Bounty financial board. It wee provided that all
the members should be elected by the guardians
instead of the justices, • portion of them being elected by
the justices thimselese, thus carrying out the principle of
responsibility to the ratepayers. The next change was
to give to the Ileascial boards all the powers with refer-
ence to fesallethalary regulations which had hitherto
been hell by the justices, in the same man-
ner MB dim powers were mated in town couseih
in linmerghs. There was, however, a provision enabling
On *Wise to make represeatation; to the Secretary of
Nolo trt the proper increase of the senstabalary. It was
ille pespeed that the ilasseial beards should ham the
pion of restiellisi the salaries of Alain of gaols, se wee
wow ants is brouglio—altheegh all pewees of ref/We-
an amlyetinnege wen still preserved to the Jonas A
dpsr resides was made with regard to pasrulsollie
..,.... ooadowle sk:;,o
="1. Ilso right ir.. . . sign ens w
wag would eily @ameba the Main of
ihe nyenestative Instate sgs mgeggaeres4.
te a
=lsMattittuhr:tuterlei ppm= of a sisal eineetee,
se the wiliest bed bees eshwasi by the Mame el isquiry,
esd the hens was quite septa of legidstleg wpm it.
• Lord PALKIIIISTON mid he wished to elate os the
pert of the g...... set the views he sehriand with re-
gard Isla mad he theeghtab lia lV es early
etsteesmt of that wail he Oar,
bona Ile daily * illatain eis ostiell.
whielk. Is MM. was Mgr Ws Si Itel eight it append,
se is ineadast the swam of eirest 'unmans,
but Me wean wawa VLsl7.l7theseatht MU'
lobos Oda peas sail yams . wed tat deli-
cate man ihe teeshmst et kaiks. It else the
mesas of the whim of that .et nimble Miso_tbe un-
paid aegiaMary. (Zeman.) With remsd to VW nis-
ei* of the Wil. the Was of the repreeniethe eye-
lets to lid austral et essefessre, it Ist boa so
W sad siouliwd
Vla=:l7.".',.:bb=.--..::....1-a .1...zer.:.11
ear se eggedlim Is
off t
isimisi thorny
to de* is pal* of the of the supesents-
dee gala le the mad The
asse, bewswir, sail bow is stintairlibillilLegpegete
et the coasts InfehaitsW the pieties viedee ibe 'semi
el the Justine was web the wollien,
me iminseh as s
large pties et Wt ezwilapeined mil
by este e artwinesest. MI Mali se e
ns. thee=7l.l
eeniseL We Me. *Wei" espial eat the
el the legmennetive omen wadi maielly isms se the
ty apeaditure. Be shwa west in OS Ness' mad-
lywith she view that la ansilse the bill Weld be
lousehtbadsle the provisioner the NB of 116 t. es it sun
as the Meet when Os Wiest we wistesaly
as& wee* ins sod the bin smeinsumly en-
owed la by the annitsee • or, at lam, is me repownd
be she walla& Is that bid a right hos. had the
Ent Ind of the Alianft sod
_kb Vas. *WI the
Ikernen kr Se nine Depenserst O. an) ma-
warred. Then 11111111111 D Oat isietiesed a riga hes.
Mini the mohair a Ilwrobasier. es width be (Lord
Peleesseles) Wald est alt—ss septettes el the bill of
MIL * seems the Meals se to how lama musty
aril shield be deeleL The bill el MI presided Out
the bised dwell he sesignikbelf et miaow. esd dist
that kW Wield be dead by the esegletruise then-
=while sodWee belL eseidetiog of Mope ere,
be M by the beard of
la right honourable had, is the
alenlisse hamaremeedimitirst 'bees as by
Mat smog meld be astir. dead by
lbe bade of powilese. IffibiegLerd Pawnees had se eb-
tirle diet, esd be it Wild endues Whizz
e eteides, seal he tilde taster tow besed was
Me ti:leisse Si ell* me is be dead by me body,
sat the ether eselbee body Met their nresesto-
thee ; mea lady amid tam
nee to wrest= of to owls kW only, sad the
bleed of merdwas meld, most likely, mil steel my neer
*lee le Wit sew Si the_ ,heeed • whew% if ell the min
lies won elected by me aseseret body it was nest
ale sumofthe miaow meld be Meted isle =Z.
dr. UM' wiiiiiii was not ear pesed of ungionew In all
Ober new% he wished to adept the issussat bill to the ar-
vessenests et tii• bill of 1861. He had whim further to
say, map that in agreeing to such • poossedies he truned
rat gie hew and the country would sod wpm that the
eignomeen of the government in this heperteot ebrmo
MN hem any distrust in the Inagingrasy. Nor did
be
arcs. the
laLbe"e l'esFla qdnotfrutist:dailtheetiorf duty
ens of that though this change might at
agree-
nosgE?
dig gad factory to the feelings of the country at large,

it would be found that, practically, there would be no ma-
terial diminution of expenditure; and„ although there
might be some instances of the away, in Neu the•
tricts, yet, on the whole, the fit.4B et the eeggelea
had been administered by the r mtitEssig with s do.
regard to economy : and, 1-4-, gag wightgagg
being an essential and importer A part of the riggioyert. It
was obvious that it was their ir..A.," ti, beim
tare within such a compass r A was muskiest ~,tamda.
~..
vices to be performed. Ar
.other change had bees
to him, which, at the Pr ~;,er time, might be well Mitif
consideration. It usesausgattaa that, as this moms
might naturally be re, tugnant to the feelings of a
class—that is, the r Agistrates at large—it might be
optional, instead of .
:imperative; and, instead of compelling
every county to '' .sopt it, it should be leP to th.t. Zectliett a,
the 6" ,....e110001 u intimate 4 by a majority or otherwise,'
ohei:free or oof it should be applied to their county. It was
stated that. some counties, as Lancashire and Nottingham,'
sere desirous of the change, and that other counties did
not desire it. He threw this out for consideration in the
p rooms ct the bill. He had nothing further to say. His
intention in ri-ing was to state the acquiesence of the go-
vernment in the second reading of the bill, on the clear un-
derstanding, that in committee, subject to the exception he
had stated, it should be brought back to the arrangements
of the bill of 1831.
Mr. FRESLIFIELD believed that financial county boards
were unnecessary, and would be productive of much mis-
chief? Why were they wanted? The whole proceedings
of the justices at sessions were made public, and showed
how little of expenditure was really under the control of
the magistrates; in consequence of the provisions of
acts of parliament which regulated the greatest part of the
expenditure. The proceedings at sessions were carried on
in public, and returns of the expenditure made to the lie-
aviary of State, and laid before the house ; and the aside
in which every item was dealt with was shown, an Whine
tare which would not he enjoyed under a system of `ra-
cial county boards. This was a queen et lasesehke
against all England, for this bill was MS MWMOMI7I,IIIIIIIIIOt
for Middlesex and Surrey.
Sir B. HALL was sorry to hear heft EMU& yeatbales•
who had just sat down the old tory ismomielimei Milk re.
Bard to the magistracy, whisk be INV VIM hag
exploded. He thanked the Maki IBM he accesehe le
the principle of the bill, whisk wee esieekled to 'mem
all chance of any odium being east on eke meitiatracy. The
hon. gentleman (Mr. Freshfield) had said that this was a
question of Lancashire ag.ainst All England, and that the 1
bill was not wanted in Middlesex. He (Sir B. Hall) knew
Middlesex very well, and he could say that the people of
that county desired to have the measure.
Sir J. PAKINGTON asked that the house should bear
in mind the palpable animus of the bill, which was to
strike a blow against the magistracy of England. (Hear,
bear.) The first bill which Mr. Gibson brought in to carry
out this object actually dispensed with the services of the
magistrates altogether on the financial boards, and even
now the hon. member, though he had modified his demand,
confessed that he was proceeding "by instalments." He
(Sir J. Pskington) was glad that Lord Palmerston bad ex-
rred the fallacy on which the hon. gentleman himself pro-
ceeded in this proposed legislation,—that the magistrates
hail an unlimited arbitrary power. The fact was the WV
g6trates acted within the four menus of seta of pads.
meat, and really had but a limited esstrol over the pees
expenditure In counties. Another emer ea which the bas.
gentleman prcoeeded was in assainie that the ratepayers
WOVIIIIM body and the magistratinesalm body in regard
to the Wriest, here involved. Why Orr uggidrates were
=2 the Mrgest ratepantse—the way meow melt
is sememy and etlielisq. The imeilles wee to
be leaked et gmellesny. He esehl set eldest le nisalttinst
the ratepayers he caroling Illesdr_ expenditure, if It
could he Mimi liet seek a &asp gal Esti. educe public
evil ; and is that pima he wee see to offer oppe-
aition to tieing es fro as the was concerned.
But at the SIM tlie he objected Memel Mite provisions ;
and be wool gist withhold his *aka Gat such a measure
should be is lbw Made of the gemesissat. (hear, hear.)
The right Imm. piebnea then reseeded to plat out in
detri the ietteb et Om iill, illestrelkg lb .... us by
1141111111116 to bit met sesety (Weeteester). Generally his
view wee, Set representatives might usefully
be skied to the 0 Magistrates ; to disfranchise sad
deprive of power the separates themselves would be most
absurd. _

Sir G. GREY expressed his entire continence with the
course taken by the Home Secretary. He had long been
of opinion that it would give confidence in the country to
apply the representative principle to the management of
county finance ; and he had not hesitated, when Home
Secretary, to agree to the second reading of a bill, nearly
identical with this, introduced by Mr. Gibson, the condition
of his anent to the second reading being, that the measure
should be referred to a select committee. If the amend-
ments recommended
,by. that co!ntittee were now on-

forced, the bill would, -in his opinion, be deserving of
the assent of the home. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HENLEY would look to the noble viscount to see
that this bill should include all the safeguards which the
recommendations of the committee referred to had contem-
plated in regard to the just inflames of the body of the
magistrac.
Mr. BAINES was decidedly fa favour of retaining for
the magistrates power in regard to gaols, lunatic asylums,
; and proviss for such powers would be found in
the bill as it MU from the select committee. (@eat.)
Mr. W. H. BARROW made setae general observations
in f of the bill, expressing his gratillesties at the ab-
sence of tion.
Mr. 3. B. SMITH supported the bill.
Mr. FACILE pointed out some objestites le the Math
of the bill.

WifALLEY would sapped Ss bill on the ground
that it would tend to rabs he maim of the magistrates,
as torandag all oppoetualliss of bringing imputations
samba thus, while, prosthally, 'sateen would stand pretty
mask samatlywhen hay vars.
Mr. HUME eqtras a &sided 'Odes *at the bill
should be in the base of the gewnwast, mad advised lir.
Shama not to press anything Load Palemeeles would not
sem*. There was a time for wmpilimg I nail the effort
Mw should be to get the bole shwas they solid under
the circumstances. (Kw, beer.) Is the swims of his ob-
servations Mr. Hume urged ea the govaisamat the expe-
diency of aointing • podia prasesater. The want of
much an other was the same of imams Ppm in eon-
awns with the ri_mena magitrasy in his assay.
Mr. M. GIBSON would same to the pepeddea made to
kimobst the ruasamsaislfaus of the salad asmamittee
should he
alti ~at ; sad be woad therefore sow mew that
ha bill go hes sennaillee proalte forma, the wader-
slasher *lag that it *ea* *es ba red in ashemelly
with the widow et Ibm peweimmat. (Cheers.)
The bill was *la read a mend time. CAMIIMINSO
Friday.
COVETS OP COMMON LAW (IRELAND) BILL.
Oa ha maim of Mr. Nun's, this bill pawed through
so Ansa
ILAYBOOTH—ADJOIJRNED DEBATE.
Tits adds on Mr. 831.001111.11 mottos was resumed by
Mr. PAGAN, who mid be nutted he should make out a
'as both maims the nation sad the ansenlmest, and in
favour of the rolicisa which ir prelessi. Supose the
..wants tabus.
sia
ban
Iwo
szi;.p7hat
bed
they to do with ? OM
hides was to keep alive he feeds. et the
=this ementry with re to Mei lbellimen
religion. He fully bellitvellbett the lamas amain
show all *taw themselves bead ant sod into the
hmthsear but who was to blame ter that ? The boa.
maker he Warwidobies pondp. bat primlpsila the
aids
igsam=lene Is lbe abides Ss
sal la 11=1.11re
ga was Walhirrel'weadmdal. Ihwlbia the
Oren la Whoa task es active a rat la toe desires ?
Ma task ble Ilona lipid this semblish sad
penal
Oh
awe essabled sr Ibe Ephillea inns Ems new
lbs. Ids bedewed that Is blind *ay asmabasi din aid-
Sm, lobo bed bees Ins to *de Via. impels the
=sedan la whisk *my bad lima elliseial la tosser
Latterly Mbar mows, awns, bell ben
and. Thank lied It was sot, se it Ai estialiy, naiad
law tat a man who Mead to sae hem
et * endeavour to gsseitala theme vibe
Cislu eastbre ;• bat still be ad met lidsk
lademper mbeuld be amid. Hs
W slays sag: et aadwil edemas mad
the Queen's but sill be Omaha reffelia should
Ibe gives Wilt No lobed bis toga le be la-
depsolostst the dela, bet IN be *wig* It the tidy of
lbe dab Is am that he dingy UM gonad, naishiest
The Oslo. of was hanisi" la TM He be-
lend It was *NNW ft resent be prison ham
be sweidissemy Mims mid* Asp Wald BM w=
Eddie pmegia sitailbssey Vies wheal gnash' hr
Oil cast has IL prison wars eduaded
Ishii by Ibe el ballhimals sad kaolin
and V Os enisetawk wore withdraws
ear dzi be dime sepia. Sappho the honourable
member he Ma* Wasorldablao sasmodod, he weld
2rseiga awe is Imbed arbisble It wall le
ismegata. diodes the radsimmat
was tbs. dr Midis. were • mindagla the empire. TM
game ggiumeal he
ld good he samptaria the sear
Vie NOMMISI IS GYM& Allitlak end Ibe kii-
=Mithemeasleabee mad Ilsidldom ie Isla. in
eiVssika, bswerre
lase* t IPSO
liem reorapallimistl *be abledlea Im *a
pdadgies
*at bad ban made sad meld *e beh mob* Ara":
Wiring add ad bone mead *m d tbe semen lee
at *V is mamma Is lbe adamlima Me se-
pants* Se Madam el Thaws_ Awakes Depardha.
With he dada ever wars *e added et es lkama °s-
hells Wen*. It was silk brown OW hair works
were is the libmary, but la Ws he ache *vs ea
maws ahlob was gives by atm of be poshest=
to the semaittle, that he weld_went •
both basins, it contained somas neoplasm paossew
The boa. member salt Rama Whales IPSO Segued to
civil sad isligistis liberty, but be shad, bad set Se vales
of the has catholic' damps bola slams la brew stela
sad religions libmy Tries milk regard te oath, it was
Ins *lna wu • hapiames power, but the dispensing
power wined in the gretatant church also. An oath
might be dispensed with to the catholic church whoa it was
takes wader weeds% whin it was an unlawfingle
where then was an impessibiline that the
of in
should be dose, on the monad tgae,
there was error or traad‘ mad lastly whew bias
was • Unita that was, supposing the law of
the land to boa
against it. Paley said that ma unlaw-
ful promise might be broken, and that suer as fraud
vitiated a promise. That was jut the same doctrine the Ra-
man catholic. held; there was, in point of fact, no diffe-
rence. Another objection was, that in the Roman catholie
religion thero was the sacrament of penance. lie consi-
dered that that sacrament had conthrod much to good
order and the moral improvement of society. Some obser-
vations had been made with regard to the Jesuits. They
were namely is:popular with the protestant, and for a