The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-11 00:00:00

the habess comes mast be rendered sash complete—and
there must he new facilities for individuals going before a
judge, and declaring eases, be the clue those of protestant
or catholic, of unlawful detentions. (Hese bear.) But
thee, this war not the sort of remedy proposed by tne hon.
gentleman—(hear);—and when such a complete remedy
was proposed it would be time enough for the houso to
discuss :t. The remedy of the boo. gentleman ens merely 1
to give a Secretary of State power to send down to a convent
an inspector armed by his wanent with full functions for'
investigating; and in certain cases such a power might be
exercised unfortunately or unfairly. Such a remedy, an
anomaly in the ordinary law of the land, might be put is
force hy a Secretary of State at a moment when a gust of
popular passion directed attention to a cue of imaginary
wrung—(hear)—and that Secretary of State might be the
organ of a party justly' disposed to the Romeo catholic,;
but, on the other hand,he might be acting under the influ-
ence of a majority decidedly unfavourable to persons of
that creed. (Hear, hear.) And, at any time, such a power
could not be exercised without exciting feelings of deep in-
dignation on the part of Roman esthetics, who could only
consider that their religious institutions were being unduly
interfered with, for no purpose of public policy, still lees for
any purpose of public necessity. (Cheers.) Some symptom
of such feelings hod been given in the declarations
of two hon. members that evening, and the house had
heard that if such an inspection were pressed by parliament
the iumates of those religious houses in England and Ire-
land would fly to other countries, and would take refuge
where their home would be more inviolate. Such a result
would be must unfortunate, for the strongest feelings of re-
sentment would be excited among the Roman catholic gen-
try of the two kingdoms ; and it was obvious
that the lower order', now benefiting by the minis-
trations of those ladies, would not observe such
an exile without taking for granted that parliament had
inflicted a grievous wrong. (Hear, hear.) Fur these rea-
sons, he would repeat the vote he had given two years ago,
and oppose the introduction of this bill. (Loud cheers.)
Lord E. HOWARD felt himself compelled, by the refer-
ence which had been made (by Mr. C. Berkeley and by
Lord J. Russell) to a case intimately concerning himself, to
say a few words on this question. (Loud cries of "hear,
hear.") The hon. member for Cheltenham smoke of the
case as that of a near and dear relative. She was a still
nearer and still dearer relative of his, and be could not per-
mit that case to be improperly represented. (The noble
lord spoke with feelings of strong excitement.) The hon.
gentleman bad said that he had been prevented seeing that
lady when she was in a convent. He (Lord E. Howard)
had had no time, and did not care to inquire how the facts
stood with regard to the prevention; but this he
did know, and would say, that the lady bed had
no wish whatever to see the hon. gentleman.
(Cheers.) The hon. gentleman apposite (Mr. Newdegate)
had taken upon himself to say that the lady had been de-
tained against her will at the convent at Taunton. [Mr.
Newdegate explained that he had merely referred to the
correspondence in the public papers.] Ho was not aware
whether such of the correspondence as had been published
could at all justify such a representation : but he begged
distinctly to say this—and he was no bad authority—that it
was not true that the lady had ever been detained against
her will. (Cheers.) Again and again since she left the con-
vent had she expressed herself in the warmest terms as to the
happiness she had enjoyed at Taunton, and of what she had
seen of the peace and happiuess enjoyed by others It was
disgraceful—disgusting and disgraceful—that his private
affairs should thus he brought forward in the House of
Commons—(Loud cheers)—but after what had been said he
was bound to tell the house these facts, and so get rid of all
such fallacious accusations. (Loud cheers.) The lady in
question still carried on a correspondence with many of the
esteemed inmates of the convent at Taunton, and al far as
that one case went, he hoped, therefore, that the house
would agree with him that no argument for this bill could
be founded on it. (Hear, hear.) As regards the other
cues, he had no doubt they were just as baseless; and as
far as he could see, no foundation whatever had been made
for the proposed measure.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND said that he very much disliked
the bill which bad been introduced two years ago on this
subject, and he felt great difficulty with regard to the pre-
sent one, because he believed that even if carried it would
be wholly inefficacious. He did not think it was in the
power of any legislation b effect an amelioration, because
it was not possible to separate that which was good front
that which was bad in monastic institutions. (Hear.) He
did not go the length that many persons did in blaming
them, because he had an opportunity of seeing the ad-
vantage of Sisters of Charity abroad. (Cheers.) They
tended the sick and wounded in foreign hospitals,
and many persons recovered owing to their care ; whereas
in this country many sick and wounded died for want of
similar care. (Hear.) When they brought in the Ewen-
dpation Act, they thought to suppress monasteries and
Jesuits; but there they were, laughing in your face.
(Hear, hear.) His objection to these institutions applied to
protestants as well as to Roman catholic.. Ile did net look
at the (motion as • matter between sects, or even as •
gsestion of Christianity. But he laid down this broad
abstract doctrine—that it never could be right under
nay circumstances So lock up a number of women
in a house with bolts and bars, and give the
key of it to ono man. (" Hear, hear," and laugh-
ter.) lie did ntt care whether he was protestant or
Roman catholic, priest or layman; that was a thing which
he
objected to. (Hear, hear.) But he would be asked,
where are the bars and chains in this country ? Perhaps
nowhere abut then in this country theltoman catholic* had
net their: own, way ; they were under the eyes or pro-
tean's. (Hear*, hear.) But the establishment of these
menestis institutions was a step towards giving them their
own way. (Hear, hear.) The difficulty of his position
was that they could not get cases of hardship in the insti-
-1 Wiens of this country ; but he could cite cases after cases
hoes foreign countries where there were no protestant eyes
M watch. (Hear, hear.) The object of these mull-
' lotions was to lamas. the Popish territory, and to extend
the Roman catholic religion, and not, as the noble lord
mid, to afford a retreat for pious devotion. Toe only effec-
ted remedy in this case was one for which he believed the
seuntry was not prepared—the suppression of these monastic
iestitutions altogether. (Hear, hear.) The Roma&
esthetic church was determined to establish the canon law ,
in this country, and the people of this country were equally
determined that it should not. (Hear, hear.) Let each
party deal frankly with the other, let sack get credit for
sincerity and for wishing to state the truth on the ques-
tion at issue. (Hear, hear.) As to the bill itself, he con-
fessed
he did not like it. (Hear.)
Mr. LUCAS wished to express his acknowledgments for
the generous and able speech of the noble lord—(hear,
hear)—a speech which must have settled the question is
the mind of every rational man. (Hear, hear.) The case
of the hon. and learned gentleman had completely fallen
through. (" Hear, hear," and " Oh.") No facts had
been stated, no ease had been made out for legislation. ,
(Hear, hear.) Indeed no rational attempt had been
made to prove a ease. (Hear, hear.) The only attempt
at • semblance of a case was that of the hon. and learned
gentleman who told the house that he was wholly destitute
effects and truth, and because that he was so, he wanted ,
parsons to go and visit the convents. He hoped that every
sandhi and rational man would unite and express by a
large majority that this attempt at legislation was founded
an a bad public opinion out of doors, and he was sure that ,
Kit received any great support from them it would not do ,
any credit to the House of Commons. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WHITESIDE said that his objection to the bill was
that it treated in a narrow way every large subject. (Hear.)
Mb bill would not be efficacious, but he was sure the time
Met erne when this subject mast be dealt with in a large
ed
amigoehensive way, with a view to securing per-
maellwerrtr and the free transmission of property. (Rear.)
Mr. hoped, from the manner in which the
model' had been met by the government, that this would
be the lest attempt to introduce in that house religious
discord and animosity.
Lord C. HAMILTON thought the public having the sub-
ject impressed upon their gaud, would not rest utilities' with
the present state of the law, ludas it were shown that the
opinions they had formed were without foundation.
Sir R. INGLIS mid his noble friend the member for the
City of London had meet adroitly omitted what he had re-
saved credit for from the hon. and learned member for
Enniskillen (Mr. Whiteside)—namely, a reference to the
law of forage countries, which was, is fact, the most im-
portant part of the whole question. When they were told
Shahan one end of Europe to the other there had been
howl a uniform and constant necessity for • measure ana-
logous to that which the house was now invited to adopt, he
tiouglat that in that fact alone there was a ground for in-
todereace which it would be very difficult to resist. In
Seem catholic, no less than In protestant countries, it had
boo found necessary to have legalcontrol.
Mr. T. CHAMBERS then replied. He must say his
motion had been met by the most systematic evasions he
had ever heard. His case was, that civil liberty might be
infringed in conventual establishments. Up rue his hon.
friend the member for Cork (Kr. Papa) and vindicated
the purity of such places, which had not been called in
question at all. That was the first instance of evasion.
The question was one of liberty, not one of purity. (Hear.)
He was told that his system was one of inspection, whereas
in fact it was not. The hos. member for Meath
(Mr. Lau.) said that what he proposed was ex-
ceptional and insulting. It was not exceptional,
and thv.refor• not insulting. (Hear, hear.) None of the
(moot tents had ventured to combat any one of the reasons
wh'.ch he assigned. The fault to be found with the noble
le.rd (Lord J. Russell) wits that he omitted to do what
the hon. member for Enniskillen supposed he had done
well knowing. everything about the continent, he had
avoided referring to it in the least. The noble lord him-
self furnished him with an instance of evasion. The
greater part of his speech was occupied in complimenting
devout nuns who led a life of retirement, and active nuns
who were so often seen moving about the streets. He
(Mr. T. Chambers) had impugned the conduct of
neither of these classes. (Hear, hear.) It was said
that inspection would drive all these institutions to the
Continent. Au hon. member for one of the divisions of
Eau had just informed him that for 20 years his father,
Wog • magistrate of Sussex, visited • nunnery constantly
twice a year, the reason of this being that the nunnery re-
ceived a certain sum of money from abroad on the condition
that the nuns were proved to be there ; and it appeared
that they were all received by the hon. member's father,
and counted by him, to use his own expression, as they
passed through a door, like sheep coming out of a fol.o.
That neither frightened them, nor did them any hum
(Laughter.) The noble lord (Lord J. Russell) bed difirbed,
in most felicitous terms,what a bill for this • u rouse
i" • 0 should be.
It was not a open to the noble 'lmreJ
to amend the
je etion. The
noble lord said tte proper bill ).:e ono
habeas c"',..ss. Now, that sou
'ermine& the object of his
bill. I:sne'noble lord farther said that if the common law
co",d not moist this case it would not meet any. But this
was a special case, as was that of factory children.
("Divide.") Hs would not further detain the home.
Sir J. TYHELL addressed a few words to an impatient