The Express.
London, England, 1848-07-31 00:00:00

IMPER AL PARLIAMENT.

NOUSE OF COMMONS.—SATURDAT, JULY 29.
The &teacart took the chair at 12 o'clock.
THE SLATE OF IRELAND.
Mr. M. J.O'CONN ELL opened the adjourned debate bya
complaint that he was called on to address the house in the
absence of ministers. He rose fur the purpose of adding his
humble, but earnest, r:monstrance against the do notning
policy of the present government. Irish members had had
often to complain of former ministries; but to all pr. vious
ministries this credit, at least, was due, that whether their
measures w. rc good or bed, they earned them. (Hear,
heir.) Even that merit the present government had no
claim to, It had b,en said that to do wrong was better than
to do n-thine ; and, paradoxical as that proposition might
appear, he believed in regard to Ireland it was true. The
house had passed three successive measures this session to
suppress agrarian outrage, which arms from popular discon-
tent. 01 the first two he had taken his full share of raven.
gibing., nor did he wish to shrink from that responsibe ilould
ity
now—(h ar, hear); end had he been present hsh
certainly have supported the third--t hear, hear), believing,
as he did, that it would tend to the benefit of the Irish
people. kie regretted that the hon. member for Midelleses,
tit his able speech of the previous evening, had gone into
topics which at this moment lie thought it was most unfit to
advert to. (Hear, hear.) Should any disturbance break
out in Ireland, he hoped the government would put it down
with determination, but coupling that determination with
all passible kindness. {Hear, bear.) With regard to
the
church church question, a time like this was peculia
unlit to deal with that subject, which, of all others, required
for its eiti•fac:ory settlement the deepest consideration in
the calmest memeiits. Ile feared, however, that should civil
war unfortunately break out, it would be impersible for long
to keep religious differences out of consideration, or to pre-
vent the coot at from becoming a religious war between
Roman Catholic and protestant. It was impossible that the
religious questien could ever be settled in Ireland except oa
the principle of compromise, and in that compromise they
must not lore sight of the rights of the protester t laity of the
middle and lower classes. (Hear, hear.) There were many
who desired to see the church queatioa settled with reference
to vested interests, mealtime thereby that they would not de-
prive existing incumbents of their property ; but in his view
the c lurch did not consist of the clergy only. (Hear, hear.)
These were other vested interests besides those of the clergy.
Differing in this respect from the noble lord, he believed the
present establishment was larger and more amply paid than
the spiritual wants of the people required ; but be this as it
might, any settlement of the question, to be complete and ea-
tistactory,must included reasonable and respectable provision
for the ministration of the church to the protestants of the
middle and lower classes who had been brought up in that
church, and who had a vested interest in the strictest sense
of the words. With regard to the extension of the franchise,
though he should be glad to see a measure on that subject
pen this year, yet he felt that whether it poised this year
or three or fear y ewes hence, it was not to be put in compa-
rison with some measure for giving the people the power to
live, by affording them i mployment. (Hear, hear.) He im-
plored ministers, if possible, before the session passed away
be t st all events at the very earliest period in the next ero-
sion, to devise m:ans for carrying out that vital object to the
Irish peopl (neer, hear.) He regretted that the Landlord
and Tenant Bill had not passed, the more so as it would be
more easy now to check the extravagant expectations which
were entertained in some parts of Ireland as to the extent
to whicn parliament would interfere between landlord and
tenant—(hear, hear)—than it might be in another years
when popular opinion might be less apathe tic. There were
soma, he believed, who thought the tanant-farmer should be
a small landlord, and, perhaps, the labourer a small landlord
too but such a change would place them in a worse posi-
tion than that in which they now stood. If parliament ne-
glected its dial of settling this question it would abdicate as
important part of its functions. Then, as to waste lands, the
acclamation of these as a means of affording profitable em-
ployment to the people had been recommended so far back
as 1810 or 1811, afterwards by the poor-law commission, by
the noble lord (J. Russell) himself in 1845, and by the right
hon. gentleman, the present chief commissioner of the poor-
law, who in the mast able speech, he (Mr. M. J.O'Connell)
had ever heard on Irish affdrs, in recommending
the extension of the principle of the English poor-law and
the right •0 relief to Ireland, admitted that the Irish pro-
pr.etors might with justice complain that such a law brought
at once into operation would lead to the confiscation of all
Irish property —this was prcv.oua to the failure of the
potato crop, in 1S and that it would be most unjust for
parliament to extend the English poor law to Ireland, with-
out at the same time affording the largest facilities for giving
employment to the people. And the right hon. gentleman
especially referred to the reclamation of waste lands as a
means of giving such employment ; and, after referring to
the large sums granted to abolish slavery in our colonies,
added that if a large grant were necessary for the purpose of
employing the pee* in reclaiming the waste lands of Ire-
land parliament ought not to hesitate to make it. (Hear )
The spirit of observations was afterwards adopted by the
noble lord (J. Russel-) when he introduced his series of Irish
measures in 1847, and promised those aids without which it Wee
admitted that the poor-law, especially in the distressed dis-
tricts of the south and wet of Ireland, could not satisfactorily
or efficiently hi carried out. Now, however, even the pro•
mise of such aids was withdrawn ; and as the Landlord and
Tenant Lill teal been blown down by re puff from one hon.
bazeiet the member for Cavan, the Waste Lands Improve-
ment Bill hail fallen beneath a joke of the right hon. baro-
net (Sir It. Peel). Then as to railways and other produc-
tive work.. Ireland had been the victim of several misfor-
tunes. The great benefit which the application of govern-
ment loans to the opening up of railway communication was
calculated to confer, was proved by what had already been
done. In the great line between Dublin and Limerick,
which had been carried out by the aid of such advances, an
addition of seven miles, recently opened, had increavet the
traffic ;001. a week. (Hear.) He admitted, on principles
of economy, that public money or public credit ought
not to be advanced in aid of public works, unless such works
could ht shown to be of advantage to the country; but he
would put it to the most strict economist whether it was not
cheaper to pay labourers in Ireland than to pay soldiers ?
(Hear, hear.) So long. as destitution and distress prevailed
in that country to their present frightful extent, they could
not hope for tranquility. He hoped government would
take the matter into their early consideration and deter-
mine whatever measures they thou4let it poodble to carry, to
produce them speedily, and to press them on against alt op •
position, and despite of pressure from without or within.
(H .ar, hear.) If they found they could not carry measures
which they believed to be necessary for the benefit of the
country into operation, as honest men and as statesmen
they bad but one course to pursue—that was, to re-
sign their offices to those who cull& (Hear. hear.)
There appeared to be much individual good feeling
in the gevernment—unfortunately it produced but little
collective result. There appeared to be but little unanimity
of will in ;he cabinet, and the consequence was, that the
good intentions of some individual members of it were never
carried into effect; but if this de.nothing policy were con-
tinued, it needed no spirit of prophecy to Say what would be
the result. If expectations which bad been held out were
not to be realised, the history of Ireland for the next 10 years
might be written within the next 10 minutes. (Hear, hear.)
The present disturbances, he hoped, would be suppressed
bloodlessly ; but put down they must be : and the authority
of the sovereign, which he respected and believed to he essen-
tials to the interest and the liven of the poorest as well as the
richest of the Irish people, must be maintained. (Cheers.)
Under ordinary circumstances he should not have voted for
such a motion; but, as he thought it conveyed a proper and
well-deserved rebuke, not only to the gevernment but to the
house for Ps shortc +miues, he should give it his cordial
support.
Meier BLACRALL thought the speech of the hon. mem-
ber for Middlesex (Mr. (Monte), on the previous evening,
was likely to be the more micWi vans for its brilliancy.
That hon. gentleman attribated almost all the evils of Ire-
land to the established church. (Hear, hear.) His
experience of the Reiman catholic population of Ireland led
him to the conclusion that they had no prejudice against
nor wish to inlet.e the protestant church establishment-
In his opinion, the great mistake which had been made in
legislating for Ireland, wa, the giving a permanent character
to measures called for by a temporary necessity. The mea-
sures which had met with the most success during the
present session were those which tended to f zee into the
market large cocaine of brisk property, at a time when it must
be sold at a deteriorated price. The particular measure to
which he alluded might be an excellent one in itself, but it
was not the legislation mist wanted at the present moment.
What they wanted wee assistance through their di tress, and
a means or employing their surplus population. There was
no measure which required amendment more than the Irish
Poor Law. lie was not opposed to the principle of the law ;
on the contrary, he had endeavoured, and sucecasfully, to
carry it out, but he felt that his was an exceptional con,
and that if it had not been go he would not have been able to
make the leer work at all. In hie electoral district there
were only three or four landed proprietors, and those by
acting in harmony together hail made the law work, but in
district:, where the number of proprietors was large there
was the grestest difficulty and often irepoesibility in making
the law work. He approved of a suneetion which had been
treated with some ridicule in that house, namely the holding
of a periodical session of parliament in Ireland for the
despatch of Irish businem, and he was enntirmed in his opi-
nion by a petition in favour of the proposition which he held
in his hand,signed by the whole of the erund jury of Westmeath,
a body c f gentlemen representing 50,0001. a year property.
With respect to the motion before the house, whatever he
might think of it in the abstract. yet not deeming the present
an expedient moment for brit: g
gin it forward, he felt boned
to euppert the amendment of the noble lord.
Mr. P. SCROPE apologised, mean English member, for in-
terfering in the diaenssion, hut England was as much inter-
ested in the state of Ireland as Ireland herself, for if civil war
broke out. in Ireland, the expense of suppressing it must all
fall on the working classes of England. (Hear.) He re-
gretted that the speech of the noble lord at the head of the
government was no: more encouraging to Ireland, although
he quite cencurred with the noble Ind in thinking that the
great evils which afflicted Ireland were those of a social
character. (Hear, hear.) The main grievance of Ireland
was the dessiteition of the people. (Heer. hear.) It was
many years since one of the most able and eloquent men
that Ireland had ever produced, the late Dr. Doyle, had
warnedthemef the consequences of neglecting that destitution.
He had:stated that the unrelieved poverty of Ireland would
go on and be neglected until it would come on at last like
the shock of an earthquake, executing th on your head the
vengeance of heaven. He (Mr. Scrape) asked the house
whether the prophecies of Doctor Doyle were not likely to
come to pass ? (Hear, hear.) Doctor Doyle approved of an
Irish poor law, and so did he (Mr. Stripe), but he objected to
that provision in the law which they had obtained after forty-
fever years' struggling, which enabled lanolerde to get rid of
tenants holding more than a quarter of an sere of land. His
belief was that the sway exercised by the landlords over their