The Express.
London, England, 1847-06-10 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF 00P010103.—Waroxisaar, Jura 9.
The Bruins Nth the choir et 12 esisolt.
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RAILWAY BILLS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to
move the adoption of the resolutions agreed to by the select
committee on railway bills.
Sir H. HALFORD roes to order. He submitted that
these resolutions could hardly be looked upon as private
business.
The SPEAKER said that private business comprehended
everything connected with einvate bills. Railway bills were,
strxtly speaking, private bills.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER resumed
his observations, which were rather indistinctly heard in the
gallery. lie said he would not on that occasion have inter-
fered with the course of businens, but that it was desirable
that promoters of railway bills should as soon as possible
know what were the intentions of parliament with respect
to these projects. A fortnight since the boo. member for
Moaner had brought forward a motion on the subject, and
since then government had thought it desirable that a select
committee should be appointed. That committee had been
appointed, had met, and had agreed to certain resolutions,
which were laid on the table on Monday evening last.
The elect of his present motion was, dist the house
should adopt ties resolutions. In the debate on
the moths of the hon. member for Montrose, nobody had
and a single word against the construction of railways; but
he thought there wee a general impression that within the
last year os two projects had been sanctioned at too rapid a
rate, and that consequently considerable inconvenience had
been (sated to the commercial interests of the country by
the abstraction of so much floating capital. Besides, it was
alleged that several things had been done in contravention of
the standing orders, and that, therefore, the House of Cos- I
moos was called upon at least to inquire into the matter.
The course suggested was, that ell railway bills should be sa
ewe suspended ; but the committee had decided unani-
mously against that course. They. felt that there were sere-1
ral email lines of intercommunication which it was necessary
should be completed ; and it was represented that
the great compasses had nearly completed several small
lines, and that any sudden check might have the effect of
throwing ggreeaat nembes of persons out of employment, •
thing especially to be deprecated with the present prices of
romans. fleissition was then suggested, but inasmuch as
it was neeessary to come to an early decision the committee
felt that it would be utterly impossible to enter into the
lengthened investigations which must form the necessary
preliminary to such seleerion. The committee had, there-
fore, determined against compulsory suspension and 'elec-
tion, but they recommended that a power should be given
to companies of suspending their own promedings, and
carrying forward the progress they had made in com-
mittee to a future seMon. It was expected, that under
these resolutions there would be a sufficient number of
voluntary suspensions to answer the plie in view.
The committee were told that several compe.nM, which were
carrying on the war with groat vigour, were not anxious to
construct the railways for which they "so to parliament,
but merely wished to pre-occupy certain lines of country.
They, it was represented, would willingly rest on their oars
for a year or two ; and thee the purpose of the committee
would be answered, without any compulsory resolution.
The committee, therefore, gave the option, under certain con-
ditions, which would be found stated at length in the first
resolution. The second resolution provided that in cases of
suspended bills the deposits should be returned to the depo-
sitors, but that such deposits should be again paid in, preli-
mina,- to any steps taken in a future session. This resolu-
tion left the parties is no worse position than they would be
in before a select committee. The third resolution, pro-
hibiting the payment of any interest or dividend, in
respect of galls (except the interest by way of discount= sub-
sesoptMus prepaid, agreeably to 8 Viet., c. 16, s 24,) oat Otte
espial, mmely brought back the practice of the hem le
what it was when railways were brought
_forward as dendliiis
of
before the speculative eassdalied got hold, see eely
of the country, but he was afraid of essmlliess of that been,
inducing them to par bills coot elming welder ef a wry
doubtful character. The next reseinis greeided Ike the
paying up of three-fourths of the rumba enplieL The
filth resolution applied tea case which at his. Merl of hie
brought forward st an early period of the easka. sal wilds it
was considered a glaring evasion of the steadies maws. It
was the cue of an eastern line, in which the esimpamy having
completed only a small portion of the line made• declaration
of surplus profits, and used the deposits for the eestanction
of another line. They thus entered into new equal
to ten times the amount of their paid-up capitol. This he
held to be a fraud and evasion of the rides of thee heap.
But what was every one's business was no one's business,
and, consequently, the matter passed without observation.
The only way to prevent this was by making the resolution
he held in his hand a standing order, when the committees
suet attend to it. The cemuninit resolutions applied to the
powers taken of leasing, purchasing, or amalgamating rail-
ways. Many applications had been made to parliament for
the sanction of embryo lines, projected merely for the pur-
pme of sale to one or other of the great companies. He be-
lieved that nothing had tended to force on rail'vay specu-
lation so much as this minim, (Hear, hear.) The
mode was this,—eaall companies, or independent
r, got up a line, knowing that a peat tom-
was annous for the line of country, they them-
selves not having the slightest notion of eonstrwesing the
line, but hoping to realise a handsome profit by the 'compe-
tition of the great companies. Another point w the rm►
lutions would provide against was the practice of scats ems-
panics, whose es hu were not yet constructed, of gran
dma
arge interest to other companies whose lines they less&
The resolutions provided that no company should have the
power of granting interest to another company, until it had
been a entetantial working establiihmetit realising profitsofits
own. The course he intended to pursue was tomove the molu-
Hos, eeriatim, end if the house should agree to them, they
would be binding so far as the present session was concerned ;
then he proposed to rifer them to the committee on standing
orders, who would consider whether or not they should be
made binding as regulations for the conduct of railway bills
in future melons. He would now propose the first resolu-
tion for enabling the parties to railway bills to suspend [im-
peding, during the present semis, subject to regulations
similar to those which had been adopted in 1846.
The resolution having been nut,
Sir M. HALFORD contended that the government, by
passing these resolutions, were interfering with the arrange.
meet by which Wednesdays had been set apart for business
under the conduct of private members. Though the Speaker
had decided that these resolutions came under the order of
private business, the Chancellor of the Exchequer had ad-
mitted they were of public importance, and as such, they
should be brought forward as public business on • govern-
ment night. It the house entered upon the discussion of
these resolutions, the whole afternoon would be taken up
with it, and the business which stood first on the paper—
the adjourned debate on the Hosiery Bill, in the decision
upon which thousands of the starving operatives were in-
terested—would be indefinitely postponed. Under these
circumstances, he would move that the debate be now ad-
journed. (Hear. hear.)
Mr. SPOONER seconded this amendment : which was
supported by Mr. Newdegate, Mr. Endorse, Mr. S. Craw-
ford Sir J. Easthope, Mr. Basket, Mr. Cripps, Mr. R.
Buller, Mr. T. Dunoombe. and the Marquis of Granby ;
sad opposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Est-
oourt, Mr. Hume, Sir G. Grey, Col. Sibthorp, and Mr. R.
Yorke. The discussion was terminated without a divides
by an arrangement proposed by the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, that the railway resolutions should be taken at 12
o'clock to-morrow (this day) ; and the debate was adjourned
aeooedi
BA 8H INTERVENTION IN PORTUGAL.
On the question that the order of the day be now read,
Mr. B. OSBORNE wished to refer for a moment to a
question of considerable importance. The home wee aware
that the hon. member for Montrose was to have brought
leeward his motion on the affairs of Portugal on Monday
het, and that after various promises be finally, on the inter-
ments of the noble lord, consented to postpone it till Thurs-
day; bat it upeared that his bon. friend was composed of
LOOM squeezable materials than he (Mr. Osborne) had given
him credit for, and that he had since further postponed his
emotion till Friday, aid even upon that day, from what
occurred last night, he saw no security whatever of its
coming on. He wished to know from his bon. friend when
he would positively t ring his motion forward for discussion—
for it was most important that the question should be dis-
armed, sad the opinion of the House of Constar prsouneni
upon it before the sailing of the next packet to Oporto.
He was are his bon. friend little knew of the many anxious
bomb in Portugal that were waiting for the result of the dis-
=nee how much the ems of constitutional liberty was
by these delays, or he would never have consented
to theme. (Hear, hear.) He was eurprised to bear that
some bee. gentlemen had last night called for • further de-
lay till Mandy next, on the ground that there was to be a
Queen's ball on Friday. This he supposed was on the
prime* el—
. lettlebss mgr bang, that tureen may dine.
In le he mitt 'no oed to parody n—
ary die, that senators may dance.
(Cheese) Had the question been one of pounds, shillings,
gad plea, instead of one that involved the lives and liber-
tine of leave men, he we+ sure lira hon friend would hove
bona isms obstinate. (II ear.)

M. EMU rant his MS. Mind that be remhap '
thee to the heporlesse of the sad of the =peen►
Wee of the potpie of as te the ambits of the
llethe el Genamea. He a
iryielde to the pospenkies On
dap le Mee Int Ms. 111111111 mos ight he le -pentodes of 1
the hie they thee mini epee le tidos yen la the
Be we ttheppelstod Yen then peplos thee
I net &swig in the Mail in des ha, he be Meth tbe dalep
ia tide sewn nest he lobes es a roof of a thin ea the
Nat of the gtheninest dB babes to postpone the
SO Mr, hoer w he the .w==eed, sad se ....rit's.:.
would swath his, be wield es Friday admit the nodes 1
width habsil thewAsed le inns aim them. (Has.) I
Mr. WEBB ionsised Ow the delay is yetsthe the
Larwidth he thiseeseed bed been laid Ostia Ishii three
ajto, had conned ; sad whether any sabseipsent papers
had been prodused ?
Lord J. RUSSELL did not intend to ask his hon. friend
(Mr. Sens) to data his anise hayed Friday. The papas
WINS hill es the tale es ; tie delay is entangler
=es theweesenly of with to the so-
ret the Fanlpa Mr The printing
weis, however, new crapieted, awl be lispedi, copies would be
dineihthal that evening.
Ms. Bailiff asked if the papers had been printed by
the rioter et the house ?
Ltd J. RUSSELL believed they had been printed by the
prieeer of the Foreign-office. At all events, they had been
by the person who was amity employed to print
d documents presented by order of her Majesty. No subse-
quent paper. had been delivered.
Mr. HORSIIAN conterded that there had been unneces-
sary delay in producing the pipers The protocol was signed
on the 21st of May : all the negotiations were then termi-
nated, the decision of the government was taken, the treaty
was =occluded, and orders to act Lamed ; and he could net
bet believe that government were then in a condition to pro-
duce the documents. Considering that the course they had
taken was most exceptional, he thought they ought to have
shows as such anxiety to give, 'as the house to demand,
b usdapating the wish of the house on the
He bowl *know if the noble lord had any
ahmk
to ars media of which he (Mr. Harman) had
setae, Mr espies of any communications between the
ithentnost and that of Portugal, in 1822, with
==Man=e to the cane le be pursued by Great Britain in the
went at the Portuguee territory being invaded by any
feeelpo pewee ?
I, th J. RUSSELL could not promise the production of
there papas without communicating with the Secretary of
State for Foreign Affairs.
Sir It. INGLIS observed that as both parties were pledged
to bring the subject forward on Friday, no further discus-
sion ought to take place--whereupon the matter dropped.
HOSIERY MANUFACTURE BILL.
On the order of the day for resuming the adjourned de-
bate on the second reading of this bill,
Mr. GIBSON rose to oppose it. The hon. baronet (Sir
I H. Helloed), when moving the second reading, said it was
his wish to have the bill sent before a select committee, that
other members might share the responsibility of it. He
(Mr. Gibson) objected to such a course, because it would
commit him to the principle of the bill, to which he was
altogether opposed, that principle being to raise and regulate
the wages of labour, and even to confiscate property (ma-
chinery) by act of parliament. The bill made it illegal
to let for hire or to receive rent for the use of
frames employed in the manufacture of hosiery. Thus the
bill would prove a great evil to the working claims, by com-
pelling those who worked at home at this species of ma-
chinery, and bad not sufficient capital to buy frames for
thameolvee, to go to the manufactory ; and by rendering the
.cheery its.lf comparatively valueless to those who had
weld their small capital in it, and from which they derived
their income. The principle was quite a novel one. As
well might that house, by legislation, interfere with the
letting. of land or other property. He knew no more legiti-
mate investment of capital than machinery, and if they
interfered with it in this case, they would be justified in
preventing a man who vested his capital in a steam engine,
from allowing it to be used for hire. A greater injustice
to the working classes was never, he thought, attempted ,
in that house. The hon. member for Finsbury (Mr.
Buncombe), who was in favour of the bill, nevertheless ,
objected to this, one of its most important provisions.
Tne object of it, as he understood, was, to effect a saving in I
the hire of the machinery, and thereby increase the wages of
the labourer. But even admitting that a saving would be I
the effect—which, however, he denied—he had heard no or. I
gamma to show that that saving would find its way into the I
pocket of the labourer. The labourer, on the contrary, being
the weakest party, was the less likely to gain it. Then the I
bill also prohibited the labourer from employing his own I
child. (A mark of diment) Why it said that ao one but a
master manufacturer should be permitted to employ work- I
men. The master workman, therefore, mold not employ his
own child, nor a journeyman workman in his own cottage,
nor give out work to him. Each of those individuals, even I
though they should be members of the same family, must, i
according to the bill, have a particular contract with the i
master manufacturer. (Hear, hoer.) The hon. baronet I
(Sir H. Belford) had argued that if there was no
middleman between the manufacturer and the work-
man, the expire of the middleman would thereby be I
saved, but he ha ow *mu the., if seeing there were,
that the w deems would be the parties benefited. He
(Mr. Gibson) hilrwg. on the =we=ary, that the middleman
was a source of esseeny instead of expense, and that no
saving would remit hem his bas; abolished. The perilous
who would have to ige about making the contracts with the I
workmen should be paid. (Sir H. Halford.—The carnet
may do it.) But be at be paid. lathe.) As well naight
that house insist apss the warm Other asking a direst ma .
I tract with him, instead of with the pas, heindiately on. j
ployed by him. In fact, if the hem bemenses pried* wee i
acted upon generally, it would ethit the whale lather of the i
country, including that of agrimillemis mad railer= I
therefore objected to this attempt to abolish the middlemen
(
as well as the rents of frames, and seem nothing in Mr. 1
Muggeridge's report to justify such a mtheure he should vote j
against the second reading.
Mr. PACKE expressed his 111103ehimmit at the speech of
the right hon. gentleman, who, he add, MA dealt with the
measure el if it were merely a visioansy ahem of deo ben. :
baronet's for the protection of private property, bona et
being what he (Mr. Packs) maintained it was, a bill allied
for and justified by Mr. Muggeridge's report.
Mr. FORSTER shortly opposed the MIL
Sir J. EAST HOPE said that, in voting for the motion of
the hen. member for Leicestershire, he did not bind Waal(
to many of the provisions of the bill. The report of the
commissioner stated that regulation was necessary for the
benefit of the artisan or the trade. With this evidence be.
fore him, be was not prepared to say he would not go into
the inquiry. In a manufacturing country like this it was
impossible to say that no regulation or interference was to
be made with trade. He, however, believed the bill
before the house was a crude piece of legislation. From
every quarter he beard the sufferings of these persons
were such as could not be described, and they came to par-
liament to see if they could do anything for them. He
should cordially vote fee the inquiry.
After a few words from Col. RotLeterene, in support of
the motion,
Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE said, where he differed from gen-
tlemen opposite was that he thought that going into com-
mittee would hold out hopes that this bail or some-
thing like it would make a change in the condition
of these unfortunate persons who had embarked
their industry in this trade. This was the first time he ever
heard it said, that because a bill was so very bad a one,
they should send it up stairs to be amended, for it had been
so characterised by several hon. members who supported the
motion. He wished to know what object could be gained
by going into this committee. Many gran ago, when he
interposed for the factory children, he for three sessions took
pains to get the opinions of the masters and artisans, and it
was only by the mutual consent of both those parties the
bill was carried. Did the master manufacturers among the
hosiers consent to this bill, or think it possible, with-
out their complete ruin, it could be made law ? His
constituents were opposed to this bill because they did not
think the abolition of middlemen, and other provisions of
the bill, would be of advantage to the workmen. In one
1= I
near Nottingham, there were 1,700 independent
, and, if this bill passed, they would not be worth the
wood they were made of; and the same might be said of
10,000 out of the 40,000 frames in the midland counties. The
bill would destroy the middlemen, sad co no good to the
workmen. If the system of letting out frames was ;Abo-
lished, how could the manufacturers indemnify themselves
for the increased expense, but by the reduction of wages ?
The report of Mr, Muggeridgr had been quoted in favour of
the bill, bat he shouldlike this measure to depend on the
opinion of that gentleman. If he thought this committee
would do any good to these poor people, be would agree to
it, but as he thought it would only raise 41st hopes, he
should it.
Mt. '7VINCOMBE said the object of the bill was a
geed one. He denied that it was merely to raise wages ; It
was only to protect the earnings of an industrious class, of
which they were robbed by the evasions of the law. As to
the principle of not interfering, partiament had done that
@heady is this very trade. These frame-workers, IMO=
to shoat *AO, not finding that the parties who p
MI isiout {admit bringing for ward a bill of this kind would
nada them, hod "nether. to cl,, so, because they were robbed
Ore& heath esioisp. The practical working of the system
Ile odillosee the this : tin hosier, gave work to the mid-
~ who came to the re of independoot
r= eke, butchers, bakers, ~ and hired them at 6d.
mesh, and charged them to the poor workman
at IS M. a week. If the workman wanted a frame
of the blialar or baker he would not let it to him, bemuse
be woad these wader the Truck Act ; but the middle-
men emoting the workman to buy his bread or meat front
the base of tbe frame.—[The hon. member read a case is
which the "Warman stopped out of it. 16s, 6d., twelve
weeks' wpm, 41. 3e. 9d., for bread, and It. 16e, lid. for hire
of the hens, leaving the bane« • or the support of hie
family. Thai, the act of parliament was evaded, because no '
ticket pamod.l—Hu right hoe. friend said, the only remedy
for these people was, that they were not to marry. lie did not
know what they were to do. He must turndhem over to the
hon. member for Birmingham. (Laughter.) Then it was said
they must leave the trade when the masters were going We i
the agricultural districts and hiring children to bring up to
the trade. This was a tuatioa whisk deserved the intanda I
of the house, and theme pampa mina be ingpmelli is mar
way. There were no lei di= era frairnmeltees Is is
Hinckley anion. Re hoped they weal& not add inmate
injury by rejecting tideproposition.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that the bill consisted of one pro-
vision contained in the fourth clause. It was said that the
object was to obtain larger wages foe the persons in this
trade, but the provision wee to limit the numbers of
persons who employed capital for the formation
and supply of frames. Would not this have the
tHhee htetoppeedeiliteplitoittd
effect of raising the price of the hire of frames ?
cos enhuargomptburcoulgyhtrage
reject
ennottlitidhatnthhery
the demand of the people because the
legislature
had found
that, de what they would, they mild not regulate the wages