The Express.
London, England, 1853-12-24 00:00:00

DOWLING T. LAWLDEL

This cue was resumed at the sitting of the court.
Mr. Matthew Byrne mamined by Mr. O'Hagen, Q.C.—
lam a cloth merchant in the town of Carlow. 1 also hold
150 acres of land in the neighbourhood of Ca.low. I knew
the late Mr. Crotty very well. I remember upon the 7th
of July, 1852, being in company with Mr. Daniel Crotty. I
remember going with him to Mr. Stephen M'Carthy. A
person of the name of Wm. Lyng came with me: he was •
Mr. Crotty's clerk. I saw Mr. Edward Dowling at
M'Carthy's. I was present at a conversation between
Crotty and Dowling. I took part in that conversation
myself. Crotty asked him why he did not come to his
pia., as usual. Dowling said, " I did not like to do it,
Dan, as 1 did not think it would be very pleasing to
you upon this occasion." That was the ith July.
Dowling said, " I don't mean to Tote for Mr.
Sadleir at this election, and thereforu I did not
lake to go to your house." Crotty said, "Is it pos-
sible you mean to vote against Mr. Sadl.ir 1" His answer
was, tt I will vote for Harbert Clayton Browne." " Well,"
said I, what fault have you with Mr. Sadleir since
he got into parliament in 1547 ; what fault did he
commit " I have no fault to find with him,"
said Dowling, " Mr. Browne is my landlord ; be is a
country gentleman, and I prefer voting for him; he
spends his fortune at home." Mr. Crotty also said,
" sell, Mr. Dowling, I don't know, I think you are
wrong in that; you owe the bank a certain sum of money,
end doa't yeti know you will iucur the displeasure of the
bank if you vote against Mr. Sadleir 1" I can't help that,
sad he, but at all events I will have plenty of money before
they have execution against me. I said, well, Edward, if
you do vote for Mr. Clayton Browne, we at all events
expect that you will not intefere further in the election
than to give your own vote for Mr. Clayton Browne . He
said be would not, except very little. There was nothing
at all said by Crotty about 3001., but he did say
that the bank would renew his bills if he voted for
Sadleir, mil if he did nut vote for Mr. &Miele. the bank
would sue him; but if be did vote, they would give him any
accommodation he might require in the renew al of the bills
Nothing could have passed without my hearing it at that
interview. 1 left the place with Mr. Crotty after that con-
versation. I left Mr. Dowling in the house.
Witness to Mr. O'Hagan—After leaving the door, Crotty
said to use, " Well, Mat Byrne, after all my kindness to
Dowling, he refuses to vote tor me."
Mr. Whiteside—Stop, sir.
_ _ e

Witnesa—And—
Mr• Whiteside—Stop, sir • don't dare to answer.

Witness—And—(l•4bteit
Examination continued— rotty and I went arm in arm,
and he said to me, " Well, Mat Byrne, after all my kind-
nets to Dowling for years, he refused me the first compli-
ment I ever asked of him. I will separate from him for
ever, pot the bond in execution, and get my money now."
To the best of my recollection, we walked as farts my own
house, sad separated there. I know Edward Lawler. I
have known him about fifteen yew.
Do you know his CifellUntallett ? (Mr. Whiteside ob-
jected to this question being put. The Court allowed it to
be arked.)—l know the circumstances of Mr. Byrne in re-
ference to his solvency.
Has be property enabling him to pay a sum of 3101. ?
(Mr. Whiteside objected. Court allowed the question.)—
It you allow me to put what 1 know of his property ix
figures, I will answer you. I know that he pawned up-
wards or about M/0/. of my own knowledge. Between 4001.
and 6001. would be as near as I could go.
Croes•esamined by Mr. Whiteside—Any one's memory
would be affected by punch. I don't think M•Cartby or
anybody else heard the conversation. I differed with
Dowling. I will say nothing but in a manly, straightfor-
ward manner. I was in favour of Mr. Sadleir. There
is no doubt that Crotty asked him to vote for &Weir,
and that Dowling said he felt delicate about going to
his house becasse he would not vote for Sadleir—
that Crotty introduced the subject of the bills in the
bank, and that Crotty told him if be did not vote for Sadleir
the bank would sae him. He also told him that if he voted
for Sadleir the bills would be renewed, and the bank would
not sue him.-1 did not act as Sadleir's agent. I acted in
every way to promote his return.
On your oath were you not his agent ?—I don't think I
was more an agent than any other elector. I have nu recol-
lection of basing signed any document for money (document
banded to witness). That is my handwriting.
Do you now swear you did net act as an agent !—Let me
see the document again.
On your oath did you act as John Sadleir's agent ?—I
did not take a penny of his money into my hands, or act
in any other way than any other elector. I did everything
I could to forward the election of John Sullen.. The docu-
ment refers to the county election, the July diction, and
not to John Sadlei election (a second document handed
to witness). I think that is in the handwriting of my ap-
prentice. I den't think I gave him authority to sign that.
I will not swear I did not. I did ever/thing I could to
promote the election of John Sadleir, as any other elector.
To the Chief Baron—lf it be an *gent toask a man would
he vote for Mr. John Sadleir, I was an agent.
Mr. Whiteside—On your oath, don't you know that
money was paid to watch v. tees ?—I did not see any money
paid. It might have been paid. I will not say it was not
paid.
Look at that letter, written by yourself, to refresh your
memory.-1 have read the letter.
Do you mean to tell the jury you know nothing whatever
of the of Dowling I—Nothing but what Crotty told
me. I knew the observation of Crotty, but I did not know
anything about the serest till he was arrested. I did mg
say to Dowling that I knew nothing of the intestine el
Crotty to arrest Dowling, bat I said I knew nothing of time
. I saw Dowling at the election of 1842. I was sot
on the hustings. I saw him on the morning of the need
nation walking with Mr. Browne and his friends. I did
not see him (or some days before that. I don't know whe-
ther Lawler owed any money to Don Crotty. I know the
other Mr. Lawler. I can't tell which of them is the richer.
If a man was in your debt hoe would you like to get 2s.
in the pound from the man you call solvent I—(Question not
answered, by the direction of the court) I eliminated a
bill for Robert Lawler. That in a good many years ago—
about six years ago. I think I did process him. He was
security to me for another party. I can't recollect the
amount.
Would you give 3501. for that billet Lyng and Lawler ?
—(Question objected to). 1l think Lyng is worth very
little. It Lawler walked in to me to-morrow I would
give him 4001.
If he walked in to-morrow would you give him 3501.
upon that bill ? I would give 400/. to him.
He will be with you in the morning ; at who, hour shall
he mill? (Laughter.) I would give him 4001. upon his
property.
Would you give 3501. upon the bill as it stands.
To the Chief Baron—At the time the bill was drawn,
before it was drawn, or now, I would give the money upon
Lawler's security.
To Mr. Whiteside—l will not swear that Lawler has 501.
in the world.
Dr. Thomas O'Meara, examined by Mr. Lawless—l re-
side in thy town of Carlow. lam acquainted with Ed-
ward Lawler. I have known him intimately for twelve
yoars. Ot some of his property I have a general knowledge,
of others I have au intimate knowledge. The property of
Mr. Lawler with which I an intimately acquainted would

Se eqaal to 3,501. -
Cross eutatined by Mr. WDonough, Q C.—l am a phy-
sician. I have a government appointment. 1 would give
3611. on the bill of Lawler, if presented in the month of '
September, 11362. I would discount it for him to-morrow.
Believe he has 501. I was not present when Lawler was re-
jected as an elector. I did not hear of it from Lawler.
Edward Lawler examined by Mr. biliftleTs Q C -I am
the defendant in this issue. I knew the late Daniel
Crotty. I know Mr. Dowling. Mr. Cron, and Mr. Dowling
were on good terms. I recollect the Carlow election of
1852, but I was not present at it. I recollect having gone
to Crotty's house some days before the Nomination. The
Rev. Father Dempsey went with me. I saw Daniel Crotty.
I asked Crotty whether he had not a bond of Mr. Edward
Dowling. He said he had. I asked him if he would give '
it. 11. said unhesitatingly he would to the Rev. Father
Dempsey. He did give it to that gentleman. He said he
was anxious to have the bond executed, and the debt paid.
The name of Mr. Sadleir was intradueed, and he said it
was given to him to have it committed to a Dublin attor-
ney. Mr. Dempsey took the bond. I heard Crotty
regret that Dowling was away from the ranks of Mr.
Sadleir, and would not support him. He used
the language of complaint against Mr. Dowling the
whole time for going away from Mr. Sadleir. We
proceeded down the town of Carlo+ in the direction of
the Tipperary Joint-Stock Bank. I saw Mr. Sadleir.
Mr. Crotty and Mr. Dempsey stopped about the muket-
cross. Mr. Sadleir was about to mount the car, or was
upon it. Thie was about 100 yards from the Tipperary
Bank. Father Dempsey got up on the side upon which
Mr. Sadleir was sitting. I got up on the other, and we
drove in the direction of the railway. Crotty got upon the
same side with me, and we four went to the railway to-
gether. At the Market cross we picked up Crotty. When
we got to the railway a conversation took place. Father
Dempsey was the person who &et spoke to Mr. Sadleir.
He raid that Dan Crotty had given him the bond to give
to him (Sadleir) to have it executed. Sadleir asked me if
the amount was due upon the Mind, and I raid I was
pretty sure it was. I then stated that it was Crotty's wish
that the bond should be put into the hands of a Dublin
attorney, that the thing nrig.,t be done rie secretly as
possible. Crotty was on the nhitforro, but I don't think
he was within hearing. I did not hear Crotty say anything
to Mr. Sadleir. I saw Crony and Mr. Sidleir in commu-
nication. I think that was very near the door of the rail.
way carriage. I did not hear what pasted between them.
I went to Dublin in the cuisine/ by the latest train.
Isaw Mr. Sadleir that evening ut half-n.ist nine o'clock.
I was not at the elevion. 1 seas the messenger of Dan
Crot.y—(Mr. Whiteside ohjected to the witness making
this statement)—l remember the month of September, 1852
(letter handed to witness).
Do you recollect Daniel Crotty having shown you that
letter in *ieptember ?
Mr. Whiteside—l object to this. Is the letter in your
handwriting ?
Witness—lt is not. I am sure Mr. Crotty showed me
that letter in September. (Evidence objected to.)
Witness to Mr. Whidesioe—l don't know what has be-
come of the other piece of the letter. I don't know
whether O'Shea has it. I don't know whose writing the
endorsement is.
Mr. Whiteside observed that the letter hail come out of
Ithe hank, and had no direction.
Witatos—l don't think the writing is Mulhallte.