The Express.
London, England, 1849-07-17 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, JULY 17, 1849.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LOltDl3.—Mosmey, JOLT 16.
The Berl of Mumm: ay (Deputy Speaker) took his
Not at 6 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
SECOND READINGS.—NorfoIk Estuary (Aoteadwoot
of eats sad pleura of aoatrkwkin by the Ram Brink Coat-
siseastors of Weiss" and by the corporation of King's
bps); Easters Union sod E stars 11, Coaatias Bailors, Coat-
psalm (Aamradarrost of ads. sad power to lease, se or
arate to or with the Beaters Comities Railway
rCom-
Tyne River Cosetrvaser ; Buhl.
IRD READINUS.—Sbt }flid sad Tinsley Rind (Ec
brasiers of the Tsley asil thwarter titorsho road as
ElteS•141); Tat Veil Railway (Bittissioa ia Merthyr
!1), Eualu4
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
thcois PIOVIBITION BlLL.—by 1.001 REDESDALE,
trona a plass, mama not beard, is fates? of this bill.
OLIC
Roux TM CA Esoowasorr.—Lord STANLEY,
GamDerby, whist the sadoermeat of tho Ronan catholic

of the poor in doors, and no lees a proponioa thaw 136. k
to the expiate of the establishment.
he would say that this was an enormous pindrrio lavest,b.
the hands of an irresponsible body of sea. (Maims hear.
The recommend .tiou of the ensani•teesteethgt!
ign every
el guardiaas should have a paid anis. inird to
rem in the ex cation of their dry, Tel L Teen
oho govessnent paid no heed. Ha oollichern to the few
want in the recommendation of the (smoothen; he was'
thenaghly of the conviction that to make this poor law
week beneficially, and to pat an end to existing abuse,
they must neat to that whM, wee the principle of the
ginal measure, that, ansely, of soaking, with very ran
exceptions, the rule of in-door relief the only mode of in-
door relief in Inland. (Hear. bear) Cahn the nat
&tiled gourd wee made *gaunt the abuses ineeperable from
eat-door relief, you would have to struggle with an amount
of payment which would weigh down the whole country.
(Hear, hear.) Admit that this rule would meeessitato an
Increased number of Udell! and workhouses the govern-
ment, es it was, contemplated an increased number of these
holdiogp, bat without soy tendency manifested to notelet
relief within their walls. (Hear, hen.) It woald be said,
you must re-arrange the electoral division. At this moment
the boundary coasminionen were in a °audition to lay be-
re-
fore parliament the entire of their proposition for
row thestood
destribation of electoral diaries ; bat as the law ,
parliament had no vete is the matter. Look at this maxi
mum proposition : es eons as a rate of fse. was struck in an
eleeteral Menke
—not 'collected,' remake ; only 2P. 6d. of
ft, or /as, might be collected—the union might be called
epos to pay a 20. rate in aid. Now this provision was,
Ia his epision, a direct premium upon the imp
meant of rte beer bear )—a distinct intima.
Moe ' Don't you pay your rate*, for your neighing"
men pay for; you, if you don't." (Hear, hear) Without
weekly petting blerseW forward, he might give an examen
Iran his own exposition. Wi:hia the coon el' the hat
twelve months he had, to relieve his prof y. sent oat be.
neon 300 and 400 penises as emigrant', at on expellee el
between 1,8001. and 1,4001.; thus relieving his own ow=
the electoral division, and the union. New he held
band a Bet of 375 persons who had been tuned out from a
seighboaring teectoral division in the same union with his
own, tuned oat without a single 'Wing being given to
any on of them, and who bad ail migrated into the adjacent
division, whisk had thus to pay the charge of people Ceil-
ing from the estate of a person who had not eontri
hated a shilling towards their present oast. (Hear, hear.)
They meet meet that ease, if they expected landlords to do
their duty. (Hear near.) It ens hopeless that the bill
would ever work beneficially : it would reduce the whole of
Ireland to an espial state of insolvency. Their lordships wer•
aware that, under the existing law, the poor rate was not,the
as
in England, a personal charge fa only en
oecupi-r, but a charge falling also on the lead.
It might happen that through the default of a tenant who,
having paid no rest, abandoned the land and left it waste,
the laadlord would have his own stock and that of his
solvent tonne seised for the purpose of anthill good the
deficiency. (Hear, hear.) It was correctly stated by the
committee that, through the way in which amens were
allowed to run up in Irelated, a landlord might acteally find
himself in the position of haying his fee simple abeoebed in
order to discharge them. A very simple remedy was pro-
posed by the committee, namely, to make it imperative on
the poor-law oommieoesers to announce to every landlord
the amount of poor-rate in which the tenant was iodebted,
sad to anhories him to recover it by distress, and even by
ejectment, whoa it had reached a certain amount. The re-
commendation was, in effect, that the law in Ireland rhould
in this respect be assimailated to the law in England. So far,
however, wee the bill from affording to the landlord the
slightest relief that it made the operation of the law in-
finitely non stringent and oppressivethan it was at present.
A pension wen introduced into the bill to the effect that in
future, ialbood of the meant being entitled to deduct a
poundage delnedea from his rent, he should not be entitled
to deduct USN *ea half of the amount actually paid. But
new be weal imams this sees, that there was a be. rate ;
that the Igneat detholsd mes half from his rent ; that the
hadissi paid his half width' fount did not pay his 2s. ild.
la the pound ; sad that the tenant's arrears on
tinned to aocursaide itatll they had got up to
20e., or mere than 20s. la the poked.
government mid they had freed the headlined esta mats
more one-half. Bat, in point of fact, re enema worn
to be recovered by distress on the property feud ea the had
—(hear, hear)—and further, by the 18th wad 19. h Mamoru,
the genremeat bad introduced this interpolation la the
bill, that for all defaults of the tenant the civil dune of
the' e
barrister Amid have all the effect of endg-
ame in **superior courts as regarded the lands held by
the landlord wheresoever situated. Ilia land ice England as
well as hie land is Ireland, might not only be entered upon
for the sale of the produce, bat the land itself might be et fixed
by virtue of the udgment and sold to defray the debt due
from the defaulting tenant.
Lord CAMPBELL was understood to deny the correct-

AOtd
ICULTOIteL Derraeas.—By the Duke of RICH-
MOND, from Somerset, complakeiag of egriealtual
distress.
- A Postowea or rim 10211 REollthitT or Foot.—By
the Duke of RICHMOND. from a tumour who had served
in the 10th Regiment of Foot, complaining that he "ad not
received the amount of potion to which be wag otitled.
Me,woos" 131u..—8y the Bishop of GLOUCESTER,
trot a place ie Seedead,apinet thie bill.
GENERAL AND QUARTER SRSSIONS COURTS
PROCEDURE BILL.
On the media of Led CAMPBELL this bill wee rod a
third time and pewee,
PUPILS ritorscrioN (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This bill Fend through committee and weareputed toth•
hoot.
THE STEAM NAVY.
Earl TALBOT gave notice that est Friday text be would
pats questiou to the government relative to the Mao
suy.
WAR MEDALS.
The Duke of RICHMOND gars nudes that on Monday
next he would ask the noble earl opposite (Grey) whether
the government would not re-consider the gene /naiads
ral order as
to the war medal., and whether they would net ie
these who had served under Abercrombie in Egypt. and
Many others who had *creed both by sea and landt He
knew that many meriorioes officers who Wiest • limb bad
bees excluded by this order from the honour of a medal.
CORN RETURNS.
The Doke of RICHMOND wished to csLL the attention et
the house to the return' made by the con inspectors. It
was desirable that the return. should be as accurate es Foi-
ble, for upon them depended many CO= rests, and also the
tithe which wee paid throughout the ectuntry, He believed
that the eons iespectors were the only publicoaken who
were not overlooked. He had suggested some time ego that
the Beard of Trade should tend down an dicer to inspect
their books, and see whether their returns were acearate.
The fame» too Mtn neglected to :give their own resume ;
he if they were to give them, the average of the price of
Oh would not be so high e• it now appeared to be.
Earl GRANVILLE said it was very desirable that these
Mums should be es accurate as possible. The attention of
Me Booed of Trade bad lately been called to this abject;
=
theta giving any pledge, he might say that the mat
mesideration would be given to it.
TYNE CONSERVANCY BILL.
Lord BEAUMONT moved the second readies of this bill,
far the of having it referred to • 'elect committee.
The of the bill was to make the oort of Newcastle
saga, *ad trawler the coneervancy of the Tye" from the ear-
peeks to new commissioners ; the corporation Lad
neglected to peeler* the river, and bad in fact road the
Lard BROUGHAM denied that the trend*r was of the
astute suggested by the noble lord. It was a peeps's', in
fret, to troller the revenues of the expend= to new
omialosioaers, who said they were willeg to take
epee thenuelve s the debts of the corporate& in re-
spot of the Tyne. Now, he saw tie noble friend op-
posites who was coaected, net oily by name bet by
poverty, with the Ci y of Wester. He should
be very happy to take hi. noble friend's property, and he
would be aeowerabie for all his debts. (Mock lesehter.)
He should the• be in the receipt of from 350,
to 440.0001. a per, and that wee, is feet, the modest
proposition of the promoters of this bill. (" Hear," sad •
laugh.)
Lord CAMPBELL thought the bill ought not to be
strangled en Its snood reading. The property of which the
eorporation kid been trustees had been most ehamefully
mie-
applied; sad it was quite necessary that the conservancy of
the Tyne should be placed into aew hods.
Lord WIIARNCLIFFB opposed the bill.
The Earl et ST. GERMANS thought this woe a fit sub-
t for the masideration of a "elect committee. Captain
WWinkler/is, the Admiralty inspector, after an inueugation
of eaves days, recommtaded that du bill should be passed
on public grenade. That gentleman was a mast able public
officer, and could have no deal interest in the matter.
Tbe Board of Admiralty also concurred in supporting the
bill. On these as well as on getters' grounds he should sup-
port the second raiding of the bill.
Lord REDESDALE opposed the bill.
Earl GREY had been requited by most of kis friends to
the bill; but looking en it as a question of great
cp= importance, he could not adept that course, feeling
that it ought to go before a select committee.
The Earl of HARROWBY opposed the bill.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE supported the bill.
Their lordships divided. The soaker" were—
For the seemed reed*
Agile:lst it
The bill was then reed a second dine, and ordered to be

asas of this view.
Lord STANLEY coatinuad—Amorg the difficulties of the
Lehi pose law, more especially with reference to the question
of a maximum, was the want of a regular and equable
valuation of land throughout the country. He was glad
that the government had adopted the recommendation of the
committee, that improvements should not be made rateable
under seven years, and he admitted that so far the bill was
an improvement in the state of the law ; but he regretted to
find no provision in the bill with respect to another ream-
gradation—namely, the securing a more effective
audit. (Hear, hear.) Th y must diminish the tax.
ation which burdened property In Ireland; above all,
they must not involve all in one common pauperism and ruin
by compelling the Wrest to pay for the insolvent. If they
compelled one man to pay for ar other man's mismanagement
or neglect, the consequence would be that which he feared was
rapidly approachingln Ireland, namely, that one union after
another would become insolvent ; that the number of in.
solvent unitise would rapidly ismer, while the number of
the solvent diminished. Amended he trusted the bill would
be; rejected be trusted some of its most obnoxious provisions
would be ; but when passed, he bad no hope that this bill,
whatever future legislation might do, would really have the
slightest tendency towards a cure of that canker-worm of a
poor law which was now eating into the very heart of !re-
lied. (Hear, bear.)
The Earl of KINGSTON made a few observations, but in
so low a sae, that it was impossible to gather with certainty
even their tendency. It was conjectared that the noble lord
was stating sad justifying the corn which he had taken
, with regard to the pour of his own district (the county of
Cork).
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that la replying to
the noble lorf (Lord Stanley) he would advert more especi-
ally to what the bill did sot *contain ; what it did contain
min orraimitly discussed in committee. The
hie Wll hod mob tw semplainte—iirst, that the inquiry
eft mmemiteas was an improper mode of attaining the
okesat, which might have been more advantageously erected
thrigh her Majesty's government taking the responsibility
open themselves; and, 'madly, that, the committee having
sat, the bill did not contain all the amendments suggested in
the raper Now, on the first point, he mast say that,
whereat might have been the iadividual °plaices of
the gable kid, when parliament rambled then was a
peat prepoaderance of members both of tbis house and the
Other house of parliament, especially of members connected
with Ireland, in favour of the apotissent of a committee,
it being argued that justice could net o'herwise be done.
He agreed with tha noble lord as to the import-
ma of adhering to the spirit of the original law
by including the system of out-door relief, which
might be justifiable on the ground of urgent neon-
alig,
_whet sme other earns were provided, bet which
hems. always maintained was attended with perilous eases-
yeenees la • muntry like Ireland. (Hear, hear.) One or
twe of the elms. of this very bill were directed to that ob-
Mpermidiagethet until permanent lo:seed were erected
noted .
:=Ersid:iersed athearelluses. Ares;
all isteltPwitmeases had dwelt on the importune
getting ' ealAsse relief altogether. It was not pearl'.
sable to embeiseratArce relief entirely, but that there existed
in Eageminment &disposition to attain thationsumearket r
early as pomihie be stated distinctly and he trusted that
the resemem of Ireland and the adv'ances which might be
made by this genntry by law would secure the erection of
carweekbouses easiest he the attainment of this object. He
test gnat impertenso to the provision ezempting
proyameas hem the poor law valuation FOC seven
Time mod ha believed that that would form
a gnat ellinbee to the employment of capital.
11* pgiberku fromva:ioofus eiremeetanees,
amoun poor fete wYeh
boom& le pag, enftd-tbst a greater burden was thug therm
apes*, leiffea But the noble lord was ia amir. in
=iliEmig there was no remedy in the bill hethat.
se a eines which expressly provided that the tweet
=Slim as•lielf the Tate, which would give elbetnel re-
teelek Gotha lowilord. When the noble Iced said the las&
lea bat as mom of compelling the tenant he pay half the
s, be beget that he must get • receipt fur his mat.
Mem.)
Lori STANLEY. But he did not pay his rest.
(Laughter.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE.—Then with regard to
the remarks of his Roble friend remectiwke via-guardians,
he meet be aware that it wan not iaed or *vested that
the vies-guardian' were to be matiaued as a permanent part
of the peer law admiaimration. On the contrary, they
would asps as a general Me in November, sad it mast aloe
be rasallastad that they were acting under the rater and
with the advise of the poor law comaissioners. His noble
brad then put • etas, which was so like his own, that he
thought hie noble Mead wan seating hie (the Mamie of
Lemelownes) we. He, too, bad sent oat a mmilegable
wale' of emigrants beeper.
Lewd STANLEY said that he had been actually eheeped
with the expenses el some paupers who had came frees a
=:ing &Odom, after having mat eat 375 penosa ea
IL

referred to a select committee.
SITES OF SCHOOLS BILL.
This bill was reed a thirst time sad pared.
TURNPIKE TRUSTS UNION BILL.
The amendments of the Commons to this bill were
Dined to.
ATTORNEYS AND SOLICITORS BILL.
This bill went through a committee.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
Oa the motion that the house do go into committee on
this bill,
Lord STANLEY regarded the bill with great regret and
disappointment He did not mean to say that there were not
Is it some trifling emecdatioas of the priest aye
tem, bat es a whole, the measure, notwithstanding
the time with bad been occupied epos it, sod the attention
which had been bestowed upon it, was Tate isedequate to
deal with aay of the existing grimaces of the system, or to
make ths system better than it was now. (Hear, hear.) In
the comencesseut of the session, the goverment, notwith-
standing the decided objection of many member of
either house, effected the appointment of commit-
tees in the two home of parliament, to esquire
into the subject of the poor law in Ireland.
Ha wee apprehensive at the time, of that which had actually
occurred. namely, that the labour of the sommittse would
be extended over so large a portion of the sessioa that when
the period arrived for legislation it would be found impos-
sible to carry out the rescommentlations of the committees,
sad he had expressed the opinion which he folly retained,
that a question of each infinite important* ought to be
dealt with by the governmeet, as a gownsman in its own
respossibillty, and ern the means of information which the
t bad so largely at their coasted. (Hear, hear.)
mr.:,:bean the actual coma pursued as ta the amend.
most of this poor law ? Had the framers of this bill followed
the recommendation of the eneamittees ? Had they acted
es their judgment with mission to the different points ? lied
they seas dealt at all with these objects which the
somitteee toad them were most important ? Had they not,
ea the seamy, gem la several imams altogether maim
the tmemwealladene of the committee? (Hoer, hem.)
There wee the tandem of s rate in aideumiak(
_ever all
belled; spat ilk gaieties the committer of the Mem of
Commens eirtaloly deckled is amour of the
views; hst it was an of —hats &deism THOM Crams:it
bersigg if say evidence et ail. The stiamillee wßime
of Look took a different mere: They lissal Misses is
greet detail, and after hearing Mama *em Malaise to
ffietrier, just sin the LAW sem les dahlia ad-
men to the sate is sid. as es is je.
Mo Mersa ma eppoodee, end es set
the ebjeist es
matemplateL (Hear, hear.)
=ate
as
Jett
mademeatka el the goveramet masers
let it le mandered. meassied hem s seismikee emulated
by the govemmeat bait, belmery mamba of wad* with
die empties et mesh membres et the es were
Imes it, voted mime the peopeelliess Hem; beer.) Yet,
despite the deliberate sad name *Wawa of the soar
won sk...l3l%lated W aredise the wattleate dm=
mug ilerMg the rate is aid apes the
of Their Tanderelys, whoa the 1111181101111 mme
to from 'Ms other bows, 11101 i It declined to
tehe apes theareives the sir starviog the
pespb Irked, which was solemnly pat before them m
the ale eltersatim etcesepting the maim (Hem) He
Whet at the bill Were lika. to me whether the amereat
rommeadatiess wiled the emmittoe, after doss tamed.
geksa, and eserninatien of evidence had made wen
be bead that anima, meet is :permit reeemmen-
'enly two err three had Den at ail Meads& to.
(dm, hoer.). He trued sableote wheily pima era to
erbieh sesewitese hod samba the deepest end highest in-
mams —Neer, heer)—ead I. ems seem he head amass
slepeed, whisk mode the pemidem d the DW he mere
rimZt sad oppressive thee these etas asking/am=
t he mid, sad so doubt maid he that*.
et
the osmium Wended Ie so peat s length, that it wee
impossible to wait for their report, so note sesertsia what
their judgment upon the whole man wee. sr that gores
moat were 0.11(.1 to peseta a meson without turlimr
delay. Vint this allegation mild mad test of
/shy, ke then wen nosy et ths gessame patthe ihrerned byis-
Yc ammittse whgisk had Ma premed spas the semalka it
vEljlu beam the mamittes was
eito tae ibut sample presoaks( east
aims fittottenti "Ws"
sittehsbiallialithaet4l/ NW
dedtet
Mk; the qesetiseL may, at Ow attest sad GEPSIIO9 aft
smilhiplll"l et
m moat ind peest nee. . (Hear, him)
=id bad sa
g,
wh itrevis isgi, have
sa aces et the memos pas
eedery preemie es
st the e
waytiblisk
seat of the odd* poor law solaiddreeka is Woad. He
hold he Ids hued •ri slam et et the per
kw is Woad be Om *Mies astir.° Mardi
leek sad he Mad lase the Mal as was
10,0001. • sad MOW were spiked to the Mk(

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—Bat the bid yeevidod a
moody for that very ear ; ke these woes
thedoer& divides where sea pram provides
bate=
tomer* *sellable der their iselatomeoe ; she item see
Moly that 376 parts eel* bat, ems wpm la se*
Moats property, withoot hie Wag able to rands wham
they woo ker. He did not *ow *at rare was say ether
cribi:La obi* it was Marredhe his to eddies their
Se„ *wet" toulleiloodiberomil sew mew
sew the dirooka of Sie dirk rosollorre that tee
sYeiiofthebMwassaMnee to remedy ell dr Moses
wiM tribe odd fs the Illok pre law, bee to eardolotor
sash romedies mod se ea a review of the ri-
ders beide rook dry V* fa appiyin, regyber
thorsolvel a Owen lay Mare ark% of
soddiedsa. With romper to ebo quo.
=1: bodbeisi. Mbe IMI* it weld be advbsble to ap
prollooset rim hook le Ike dividon of WWl* edit%
*ler cosatheradr• .pt eired by tie meet da as
orb, *to !,vales the bouncloriee, R. fee as peg*, NON

view. Bat to p. hither than that, mad to make them ex- I
6.04 Da
coincident with vao estates. would, in his opinion. I
la vrodnetive of greaOrtreU'arld ealgaity„ (Hive; knir.),,,
The Air) efiIIOSSK aid to WIIII "reprised at the s.ate- 1
tiii
t net thc able marquis that the toaerilitsienerg wog I
salons to R out ear slier in agtry Tiossible way: ilse- I
ass In tb‘ anionstown' Union he hum that for rut a
Ilia mos be pooraw ecianrissieinshal ban prussic
on the guardlins of that union, directly end indirectly, to
give out-door relief. But up to that moment the gusedians
had misted effectually, and be was are the condition of
the poor, and certainly that of tho eate-payen, was better
than if they had yielded to that pressure.
Lord BEBBSDALB 'objected to the bill strongly on the
ground that it was more and more • departure from the
principles of the English poor law.
The house then went into committee.
On clause one, imposing • maximum,
Lord MON CHAOLB moved the minion of the clause.
In proposing • maximum, the government bed overturned
the recommendations of the committee. He believed a
maximum to be irrational and indehnsible in principle, end
that if it was propos. dto •apply it in England, it would
not have any supporters amongst their lordships. He now
caned on them to do the same justice to Ireland.
Earl FORTESCUB thought that the great bulk of evi-
dence given before the committee was in favour of the general
principle of • maximum, but on the basis of a fair and ea.
form valuation. He proposed • resolution to that effect,
which it is true did not receive any support, but he did not
collect from that, that the opinion of the committee wee
opposed to thennersi principle of a maximum.
The Earl of WICKLOW said he opposed the general
?Stair& of • maximum in committee because he thought it
sraeonalable with the principle of • poor law, but now that
the House of Commons, who were the guardians of the pub-
lie puree, bad ant up the bill with a maximum, it wee a
virtual admission that in case the maximum was not suffi-
cient, they would supply any &Scanty that might
arise. The matter, therefor*, stood differently before the
house from what it did when before the committee. He
' thought the principle of the bill vicious, end he could
not, *setae, sanction it by his vote. If the ant ektes
was adopted, the union rate-in-aid should not be Oen-
' cloned, but his opinion was that both clauses ought to be
omitted.

The Berl of BTRADBROMB said that the reasons as ,
signed in support of the bill were, first, that it would emu- ;
rage the purchase or Mester of land in Inland;
and, secondly, that it would have the effect of demesne'
peoperiem. Mis opinion was, that it would have the effect
of increasing pauperism and diminishing the inducements to
purchase land in that country. fie was convinced the effect
of the establishment of the proposed maximum rate would
be to pauperise the whole land. It would be holding out is I
ducements to persons to sublet their lands, at high rents, to
pauper tenants, knowing that they might evade the payment
of the rates altogether. lie totally disapproved of the pro-
' posed maximum rate, and believed that the more the Irish
poor laws were assimilated to those in England, the better.
The Marquis of CLAN RICARDB said it surely WAS com-
petent to their lordships to object to the suggestions of any
committee, unless it was to be supposed that they had dele-
gated to is the fitnations of that house. There wee no such
power debt_palled to the committee, and no step bad been
taken In amedenos with their-opinions upon this subject,
either by the goverment or by pi:linnet. If their lordships
were to be suppcsed as delegating their functions to the com-
mittee, mad that the house was consequently bound to adopt
their opiaiens, epee the same principle the committee might be
supposed to delegate their opinions to the witnesses examined
bgr
show and be obliged to adopt their suggeqions.
Theirismialps would at once see how absurd that would be.
At all events, it was stated before the committee that the
sMablishment of a maximum rate would be attended with
the mest beneficial effects upon property in Ireland, and he
ww:eisrepored to show it would. In the first isolates, it
undoubtedly increase the number of purchasers; it
there wee no other reason than that they would be ebbs to
ascertain exactly the extent of their liabilities for those
rates. It had been said it would be better to assimilate the
laws in Ireland to them la this country. Bat the total die
parity that existed in the circumstances of both countries
could not be forgotten. The introduction of the maxi-
mum rate could not make matters worse at all events.
It would very probably produce the most desirable results
respecting purchasers or land, as they Would be enabled to
ascertain exactly the extent of their liabilities for poor
' rates. Be, therefore, trusted their lordships would adopt
the clauses objected to.
Berl FITZWII.LIAM said his noble friend behind him
bad stated that he was not disposed to oppose the bill, as its
introduction was well iatended. That was no reason for not
opposing it, for their lord.hips would no doubt admit that
that as well as the other house of parliament was " paved
with good intentions." (A laugh.) It he was assured that,
after the maximum rate was exhausted, the poor were to
be maintained out of other sources, he could andentand it.
t Bat, until he had got that assurance, or some specific war-
t am on the subject, he could not give his assent to the first
t and second clauses.

On clause 15 being proposed, which clause provided that
the valuation of land Leaned for the poor', rate was not to
be increased on account of any improvements which might
have been made,
Lord MONTEAGLE proposed that instead of the words
" any agricultural improvements," it should be "any per-
maneat agricultural improvement made in &conduite with
an act called The Lands Improvement Act."
The clause with the proposed amendment was understood
to be agreed to.
Os clause 16 being proposed,
Lord MONTEAGLE said that clause 16, and clauses 17,
13, and 19, which were intimately connected with clause 16,
were very important clauses, and no part of the bill required
more attention from their lerdships. Their lordships were
aware that in England and Ireland thecae, was different with
regard to the party liable for the poop-rate. In England,
the occupier of the land was liable, in Ireland the lessor of
the land was the party who could be made to pay. A prin-
ciple was introduced by the clauses of which he complained
with regard to the recovery of poor's rates in Ireland, which
was contrary to the intentions of the (tauten of the law.
Where a party was to be proceeded against for poor's rates in
Ireland, according to these clauses the decree of the assistant
barrister, by being registered in Dublin, had the effect
of • judgment. Toe party who generally suffered
was the landlord who, besides losing his rent, had to pay the
poor's rates. The means recommended by a committee of
the it l rdships, by which the rates were to be obtained was
by a distress and sale, and then proceeding before the assist-
ant barrister, and from him appealing to the judge of nem
Re thought it extremely unfair that the decree of the assist-
ant barrister should have the efft ct of a judgment by merely
being registered in Dublin. He, therefore, proposed that
the clauses 16, 17, 16, and 19 should be left out, end a clause
or clauses, giving a power of appeal to a superior court,
from the decree of the assistant banister, substituted for
them.
Lord CAMPBELL said that his noble friend was under
a mistake in believing as he did that, by the clauses to which
he objected, any action could be brought against a party not
liable for the poor rate.
Lord MONTEAGLE briefly replied.
Lord STANLEY said the clause was wholly in contradic-
tion with the recommendation of the Lords' committee, and
was of a character to enoounge the most vexatious, arbitrary,
and oppressive measures.
The Earl of ST. GERMANS contended that the landlord,
not being the person rated, could not be charged with arrears
of rate. It was out of the question to suppose that parlia-
ment ever intended a man should be liable for a debt not hie
own, and owls, moreover, by a tenant who has actually de-
frauded him of Isis rut.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said it was quite clear
that there was no instance of a landlord being personally
pursued in a superier court for a debt incurred by a runa-
way tenant.
The Earl of LUCAN said that a landlord might not be
liable for • rate unpaid by a runaway tenant until a new
rate was struck, but than the arrears were added to the
new rate, and charged against the landlord as present
occupier.
Lord CAMPBELL said he should be ready to support any
distinct proposition for exempting the landlord in Ireland
from the payment of rates due by a runaway tenant—a
liability menifeady heart—but the clause
under consideration applied to the law as it stood.
Lord BEAUMONT had no objection to the most stringent
means of recovering debts., provided the parties punned
were the parties who kid primarily incurred the debt,
but he wholly protested against the pauperising monstrosity
of saddling the landlord's estate with a judgment debt in-
curred by a runaway tenant, the debt, moreover, being one
which the law entirely disables him from preventing the in-
canines of in the first instance. (Hear, hear.)
Lord LUCAN explained.
The Marquis of SALISBURY said that by this act it was
proposed to give powers unparalleled for stringency against
the owner of the land, and he hoped that some alteration in
that respect would be introduced.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE admitted the desirable-
ness of restricting the landlord's liability ; but the difficulty
was, he said, to effect that object without encouraging collu-
sion. The landlord might say to the tenant, " Pay me my
rent, and then you may go where you please."
The Committee then divided—
Foe the clause l9
Against it 32
Majority
On our return to the gallery,
Lord STANLEY was owing the damn having refer-
otos to emigration, reiterating sbjsstfoae le the powers
of raising money for that purpose, vested by the bin In the
new guardians. The noble lord concluded by repaint an
amendment, conferring the powers for exerdiftenresin pur-
poses on the ordinary guardians of the poor imam& of the
vice-guardians.
After a few observations, in explanation, from tisirMarquia
Of LANSDOWNE, in which he wu understood is padres the
consideration of the motion,
Lord STANLEY intimated that, in that ease, he should
not persevere with his amendment.
Lord MONTEAGLE gave notice of certain additional
elation, including a provision to enforce a stricter audit than,
now takes place, and one to give effect to the emigration
clause
The bill then passed through committee, and the report
was ordered to be brought up on Monday next.
Their lordships adjourned at 1 o'clock.

The Earl of ST. GERMANS said he had heard from all
the witnesses examined before the committee that the im-
punities of the maximum rate would encourage the pot-
shots sad transfer of land in Ireland. He, however, felt
with the noble earl opposite (Fi*xwilliam) that it was very
difficult to fix definitively a maximum rate, when it was
intended to prevent the starvation of a large population.
He therefore felt very great difficulty in voting for the bill.
Lord REDESDALE objected to the c'auses, and pointed
out several practical difficalties to their working.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE had anived, as a member of the
committee which had reported on this subject to their lord-
ships, at the conclusion founded on the information given be-
ton it, that the expectations based on this clause of facilitat-
ing the investment of capital in the purchase of landed
estates within the electoral divisions comprising many of the
most distressed unions in Indeed were not likely to be ful-
filled or carried out. (Hear.) He would, at the tame time,
fairly own that when he heard the proposition for this maxi-
mum rate first suggested, it did seem to him likely to prove
a valuable one ; and he might stiU be disposed to think so,
if It could have been demonstrated that ostler
the operation of Rich a clause, any capitalist
might purchase landed property in those districts
of Ireland without any great increase of liabilities be-
/mid the scale assessed on account of the relief of the poor.
But he now felt, en further information and further consi
deration, in common with several noble peers who bad
already addressed their lordships, that her Majesty's govern-
ment were not yet in a condition to show that this maximum
rate, assuming it to have received the sanction of parliament,
would meet the exigencies of the case for which it had been
devised. It had been argued that by exacting a maximum
rats of 5". in the pound, beyond which no further rate
should be chargeable on the property paying it f ir
the relief of the poor, you must be nines in the
electoral divisions essprising the poor law unions on
width thik maximum would become chargeable the
value of estate% is ee he es you would have assigned a
Brit to the possible incumbrease on them in this respect.
Lad this was true. But noble hods opposite seemed
to' forget, whilst they advaneed this argument, that
by the mere fact of imposing a maximum sells en such pro-
perty to the amount proposed, they dintinishedpro Canto as
matter of course, the value of'property throughout such
electoral divisions. He weed much rather that the imperial
parliament should bring forward some large and compre-
hensive measure of remedial relief fur the fearful condition
of things admitted to exist is these unions (on propounding
which, they might find it resales to avail themselves
of some natural elements of amelioration that were
probably now in progress ;1 or, at any rate, that
the Meat of relief now appealed for shoed be granted under
some different form and by some other means than those
Fattened by her Majesty's ministers. The noble marquis
had indeed admitted that in proposing remedies of the kind
proposed in the clans* now before them and the succeeding
one, hewed not so far justify them as to lay that they were of
a sharseter that entitled them to be recognised as embodying
principles ealeeleted for mearares of permaaent legislation ;
but that himself and his colleague had submitted them
rather as temporary measures demanded by the swifts exi-
gemsy of very extensive and immediate evils. Now he (Lord
wbarad• e) cautioned their lordship' not to be deluded by
the impression that admission was calculated to robe in their
minds. It was idle to sopping that to the cspi-
SIM, for example, whe Welt be induced to
purchase a landed estate is Ireland. on the faith
o' its being free from di liability to any higher rate than this
maximum, the government would hereafter urge any plead
necomity to excuse the imposition of some Manes of Is.
burdens. The noble lord argued upon the dithcalty, if mat
impossibility, of depriving the species of legislation they wan
now Ball .11 upon to suction of this character of permanent/A
and concluded by expressing regret that he felt himself
boned to oppose the clause.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said beim this question
earn* to its decision be was anxious briefly to state to their
lordships the grounds on which he should give his vote in
favour of the two chum, the matter of which had been
made the subject of se much enervation and objection
that *cooing. A noble friend of hie (Earl Fitswillism)
had expressed in straw trims his opposition to these
denim end led gene ee for as to declare that he had
mellowed great alum w lading that this was album-
their a bill raw for hat** sale and improving the
Wm of mad estates hi tinfoils d 'inland, than one
oath as he lush looked he; the relief of the poor of Ire-
land. NOV he (Lord Loaidowne) should have thought that
the slide net would have been the last man in that house
net to see that the two objects which. had thilesrput in op-
midst the ems to the other were, in reality, only cot-
pedide. Ile should have supposed that, of al the p ers in
Hat been, hie nettle friend should hays been the most ready
to pm mg to &dptes that with the improvement
of **land were the beet and meet permanent fe-
tuses at these who cultivated it ; that the welfare of the
teamed wee iimtisal with that of the landlord—of the owner
with dm et the peasantry apoa it. (Heat hear.) He
lbw." be Enid have Med the noWe earl 4portfai the
preposition en the very pound that it would inhume the
valets of the lanl, ether, as be (Lord lonedswae) mausolea,
as the been meth eimde.-or the mails end himself laud ad-
=setatapeateily elabil lie muddies Wheelie&
ineffect)—that the hurdle" now pissed on
Idds erg wets mashing Ireland—that talent pillio-
n* pressure, it was in min to hope
r mid me* the distress of landked, meant, cul-
led alletemeseed with the land; in siert, that them
bard= were gtheihrg to the dust and Myths ens from the
aril ehe en landlords, sad peeveating new thee tram
is their gime, (Chem.) Sorel it was te the ingors/s
espied that they mot look for the greet remedy of thee Mr'
teem; if It relieved the leadowvat by the
sale if his iodates it mast proportionately Meath the
Abram add the Mast,' who wen new
invoked in his &themfrith He (Lord Lemedemaellait
ended dug' fr was elethie to • egoism diesel
seems interest& 0 the ociatlition of the landlord was

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MoNDAT, JULY 16.
The Bowman took the chair at 12 o'clock.
HARWICH ELECTION (18n).
Mr. SPOONER presented a petition from Mr. Elmelle,
and moved for leave for the proper ofdeer to attend at Chaim*
ford, to produce the shorthand writer's notes of the evidence
takes before the Harwich Election Committee in March,
1818.—Agreed
SMALL DEBTS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL mend Me coder of the
day for the kenos le le fate esmagllse d the whisk Wan
la ardor that the reselation ix panda. emmensolisn to the
Gibers of the Pala.. Court Wilt be speed to.
On the question that the Swine de kam the chair
being rat,
Lord D. C. STUART objected Is the pr!aciple of the bill,
pratisild NOM ems=icet beteg granted to the
Poises Court Mesmer anyHe : ths motion for
the eight hoe. gentlemen laving the =

tottered, it meta great* or enlarge the means of employiug The ATTOENEYEIENERAL begged toss aure his noble
labour; if labour was employed as extensively as preamble by friend that ths motion was merely a formal one, and in.
that , . . theyt were making the meet unfailing volved** principles/ all, being a mere oomplienct with the
staiding orders of the house.
atudevanseeerser wisediardssrist.igusingotththeeabjpeeci:reonsedusitiornis,s yid eitipligssatitrnt ;,
Tee
house
then
went
into
committee.
(Hear, hear) Toe noble marquis, after commenting A, resolution empowering the treasury to grant compensa-
on the inhumanity of leaving the poor of Ireland to wish lion to the Palace Court officers being moved,
from extremity of want, should their destitetioa tenbsppily Mr. B. OSBORNE said that he took a far higher ground
of opp anion
to the resolution than his noble friend, namely,
attain to 111011 a pitch as to require the more extensive aid
and sympaby of their fellow men, proceeded to explain the teat the very inetlintion of the Palau Court was ab initio
grounds that had induced her Majesty's government is bring illegal, inasmuch ss it levied • tax upon the people in the
shape of fees without the sanction of parliament. The pre-
forward the present motion; and he raked the house, and
his noble friend (Earl Fitz eilliam) in particular, to remain- Dent Palace Court was arbitrarily instituted by James 1. In
the reign of Cli,rles 1. its legality was successfully contested
toes an what grounds two recent applications for the further
rater of Irish distress in the present session had met with in the celebrated mac of Fethe and Wagstaffe, the judges
this fate, namely, that the one had been reluctantly and having quashed the proceedings of the Palau Court in that
case, and during the civil wars it fell into complete abeyance.
tardily conceded, the other flatly Waged. He contended
cleat a° inhuman, so But in the 16th year of Charles 11. a bribe of 1,0001. admi-
hes the
rtiesshouse ,
as to had
t been so u
think
lesenisj7t, a
distressedpro-re catered to Mr. Hyde obtained the issue of lett+ re patent re-
constituting the court in all its iniquity. The race of blood-
ple to perish from want and misery, without the
elealtife4444io° of 17"Parh, for their eau, or riteadlag a sucking attorneys and barristers who were then created had
gone on since that period plundering the people and grinding
helping hand to relieve them from it. Bat the desire of the
Meese of Commons undoubtedly was to s-e, in the first of the gentleman
in-
seams., what were the resources of the country itself; what the faces of the poor, and but for the effortstleman
who was known by the soubriquet of Jacob Omnium in that
admirable and powerful paper the /sacs, those bloodsuckers
these electoral divisions in Ireland were tenable of raising
would still have gone on plundering the commur ivy. Now,
towards the further relief of their poor. With an intention
of following out the view thus entertained by the House of with respect to the claims for compensation of these people,
Commons, this maximum rats had been propesed. The he had obtained a retura which threw some light on the
subject. lie found that the barristers paid each a fee of
noble marquis went on to show that, after eh which some
2001 , and the attorneys of 1001., for admission to practice.
noble lords had said against such • rate, it we. founded on
the intelligible principle that the value of land would be
...,,,,,,The.
_A_
,T.1:000011111. EY.GENERAL— The sums paid are
improved by the certainty that the rates to which it
would be subjected for • given purpose could in no 0 ""'". `." 4
aw exceed this stipabt, tat maximum. (Rear, hear.) Mr. B. OSBORNE—By the same reasoning when a dra.
Out of the 1,913 electoral divisions into which Ireland goon officer purchases into • regiment he does not pay tha
was apportioned 328 only were in debt, and not in all regulation price of 3,0001. for his captain's commission, but
of these was the imposition of this rate likely to be milled 5,0001, which is its enhanced value ; but let him be put
into act ion. In the greater part or the whole of these the 2s. rate upon halt-pay, and you will find he gets ooly the value of
might perhaps be called for; tut even in these not the the regulation price, and not of the attached price of his
whole of the 2s. would be required under each rate. It wee commiesion. The return to which he referred stated
absolutely essential for the partial relief it was now sought amongst ether things that there had been a compensation
to afford to her that noble lords should give their sanction to awarded to the knight marshal!, the prothonotary, the reels-
** pesetas of these clauses. tsar, the barristers, and the attorneys of the court, in comae-
Their lordships then divided—For the clause 26 quenee of the apprehended loco of business which the Pa-
Agaituit it 35-9 lace Court would experience in consequence of the
The clause was consequently struck out. establishment of the County Courts. Ile found by
Clause 2 was negatived without a division. this return that the knight =anthill and judge
whose income from fees amounted in 1846 (when the,
County Courts were found) to £214, had received compen-
Clauses 3 and 4 were agreed to, as was also clause 5, after
an objection front the Earl of Wickthw and Lord Mont. ration for his apprehended losses of £6O 4s. 2d. in cash, and
RAOUL an annuity of £30614e., and by the same return he found
Clauses 6, 7,8, 9, 10, and 11 ware then agreed to.
On clause 12 being proposed, that the income of thin same officer had swelled in the year
1848 to £714, by reason of the fees arising from the snot,
Lord STANLEY said it contained no provision by which moos Increase of business which had pressed into the Palace
the occupier of land could obtain the deduction of half of Court. The other officers' salaries had increased in the same
each pound of rent for poor rates from a middleman. The way, and the gains of the barristers and Weeniy had
middleman might leave the deduction allowed him by the increased beyond all bounds. There was one Miller who
original landlord without allowing it to the actual occupier. received 7501. in 1846, by way of compensation ; his fees
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought that the clause in 1844 Wait 3°C11., and in 1848 hiss WI had mall" to
1,4401. There was
.another of these 'Hernia called SheP-
was only meant to affect the occupier.
jivedbo fees in 1844 amounted to 7281. ; who had
Lord MONTEAGLE was of opinion that it would be de- 2401. for compensation money in 1816, and in
nimble to add to the clause the words "intermediate pro- 1348 his fees amounted to 3,5371. The number of writs
pietist." issued in 1846 was 2,238, and the number amuses tried
Earl GREY said as the rent of the middleman would not was 409. Taking each of the former at 81. costs, the
be valued on the same principle as that of the occupier, he amount received from the issue of writs alone was
did not see that the clause could be made to apply to the 17,4381. The profits to the four barristers, rut of the 409
cue of a middleman. causes that were tried, could not be lees than 9,1101., whilst
The Earl of ST. GERMANS; believed that the intention the costs of trying these causes, at 2W. each, could not be
of the legislature had been to prevent the occupier throwing estimated at less than 8,1801., making altogether 17,2901.
on the landlord an undue proportion of the poor rates. It And yet, in the very teeth of such a return, the house was to
would be an injustice for a middleman not to allow the de- be called upon to grant compensation for louts which were
duction for poor rates which he himself obtained. to be sustained by the abolition of such a wicked and deb a.
Lord BEAUMONT thonght that the clause, as it stood, table systemof Plunder as Ail was.
carried out the intention of the noble kid opposite The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the scale of
(blooteagle), and applied to intermediate proprietors, be- compensation was to be adjusted by the quantity of business
cause it said the occupier of any property rated for the relief done in 1846.
of the poor should have half of every pound deducted from Mr. B. OSBORNE.—Yes. But the scale upon which
his rent, and allowed for the poor's-rate. the i ompensivion was to be based, was the 2,0001. and
The Earl of WICKLOW said that the poor-law guardians 3,0001. enhanced prices given ter the attorneyshipe and
in Ireland bad in many instances undervalued the land, and barristerships, a principle which he would never consent to.
an additional burden had been cast upon the original land- The ATTORNEY.CIENERAL explained that it was ab-
lord. He did not see that any harm could be done by the solutely necessary for the committee to agree to the ques.
clause remaining as it was. tlo.i, as it was a money resolution' and. as such, was regal.
The clause was then agreed to, as were alas clauses 13 site to enable him to proceed with the bill.
and 14. After a few woes, from Sir H. WILLOUGHBY,
- .. . . .. . .. .

Lord D. STUART asked if it was competent for him to
contest the principle of the bill after the resolution was
agreed to.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Most certainly it is.
The resolution was then agreed to.
The house resumed. The chairman to report the resolu-
tion this day.
The ATTORNEY. GENERAL moved that the bill be
committed ; which was agreed to.
On the first clause being proposed from the chair,
Mr. CARDWELL wished to know, from the hon. end
learned gentleman opposite, the pounds upon which this
bill was brought in. He had received many letters against
it, and if other hon. members, representing large consti-
tuencies, had also had such letters, and na corresponding
numbers had declared for it, he should feel it his duty to
oppose its further progress.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thanked the hon. gentle.
man for having drawn bit attention to this subject, and pro-
mised, if he should find that the majority of the mercantile
interest were opposed to these provisions, that he would not
proceed with these fire churns. Fur his own part, though
he had heard numerous objections from attorneys, he must
say that he had heard none front the mercantile interest
generally.
Mr. MUNTZ objected to the bill. lie had heard nu-
merous objections to it from persons engaged in trade, and
trusted that the hon. and learned gentleman would with-
draw the first fire clauses.
Mr. BROTHERTON was glad to see that there was no
very atrong indisposition on the part of the Attorney-
General to withdraw these clausrs.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL consented to withdraw
the first five clauses.
Mr. FITZROY proposed the addition of a clause, extend-
ing the jurisdiction of the County Courts Bill to debts under
501. instead of 201., as at present provided. He was of
opinion that the very greatest advantage arose from the
system of examining the plaintiffs and defendants elves voce
in the witness-box ; and he saw no reason why persons
having debts under 201. should have cheap justice brought
home to their own doors whilst larger creditors should have
no such remedy.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL did not agree that it
would be advisable, after the experience they had had of
these courts, to extend at once this jurisdiction without pro-
viding most ample means for reviewing the decision of the
judges.
Captain PECHELL said he should support the motion of
the hon. member for Lewes, as there was no chance of the
lawyers ever agreeing to take the business out of Westmin-
ster.hall. The hon. and learned gentleman agreed that these
courts worked well, but the learned gentleman had done
everything in his power to make them unpopular. He had
done everything to lower the respectability of the judges by
making them an allowance of 21d. per mile; and if they
happened to sleep from their homes, they were to charge only
14s. or lis. a might for tavern expenses. The annoyance
which had been given to these respectable gentlemen was
such u to call for the direct interference of the first lord of
the Treasury. As there was a great approval of the node
of dispensing justice in these courts he could not understand
why government should fritter away their usefulness;
nothing could be so satisfactory es the judicial proceedings,
and nothing so unsatisfactory as the manner in which the
judges were dealt with.
Sir G. GREY said that the act of parliament imposed on
the treasury the duty of fixing the limit of travelling ex-
peases ; the attorney-general had nettling to do with it.
Formerly the treasury was charged with great extravagance,
sow the charge made was that it was the it object to degrade
these gentlemen. The salaries of the judges had been fixed
by the Lord Chancellor in communication with the treasury,
in conformity with the sot of parliament, and there was not
the slightest desire to degrade these judges. Although he
quite admitted that these courts fully answered public ex-
pectatiun, yet if they crowded on them a great deal of busi-
ness they would not be so satisfactory to the small clue of
suitors who now found a speedy remedy. He did net say
that it was not possible to extend the jurisdiction of these
courts, but to do this hastily on bringing up a clause would
tend very much to defeat the object. The hon. gentleman's
argument that if decisions were given on 201. why not give
them on 601., would equally apply If the sum was 5001.
Capt. PECHELL repeated thateverything had been done
to lower the character and respectability of the judges.
Their salaries were first settled at 1,2001. a year, and now
they had 1,0001. They had been found fault with because
was charged for post horses for their own carriages. Their
tavern expenses were limited to 15s. a night.
Mr. SPOONER said that there was a wrong feeling that
the county oourte had worked well, and that they should
have an extended jurisdiction; but be was not prepared to
give his sea port to the motion ss it stood. Might it not be
as well to bring in a clause to empower the judges to try up
to 501., if both parties should consent ?
Mr. MULLINGS thought that the jurisdiction might be
beneficially extended to 304 and in that view he was justified
by the Charitable Trusts Bill, which gave jurisdiction to the
county court judges up to 301. He thought the judges were
not put Oa the footing on which they ought to be. Re
hoped the time would arrive when government would fix the
amount of salary, including travelling expenses, at 1,5001. a
year. If justice was to be properly administered, the judges
must be paid better than they now were.
Mr. HARRIS said that he bad received communications
from his constituents entreating him to support this clause,
as they had found the great advantage of the working of the
County Courts.
Mr. BROTHERTON said that he had received communi-
cations from hie constituents to oppose the further extension
of the court. He was ready to admit that County Courts
had wonted well, but they should have a longer time for a
fair trial
Mr. C. LUSRINGTON asked whether this clause pro-
vided for the general amount of fees. Frequent complaints
had been made as to the amount and character of these fees.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied that the object
of the clams was expressly directed to lessen all the fees.
Lord D. STUART was sure that the clause proposed by
the hon. member for Lewes would give great satisfaction
to the country.
Mr. MILES was perfectly certain that the decisions of
the judger were very erroneous on some points, and if the
jurisdiction were extended from 201, to 501., it would be
absolutely =awry to give an appeal against their decisions.
Under proper vestrictims the juriseEction of these courts
might be extended.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that this was a very
serious question. A- the 'court was now constituted, there
was no appeal what. vet from *he court. Applications were
o9nstar.tly made rr ;be t ourts of Queen's Bench and Exch.-

quer to overturn their decisions by writs of prohibition, sad
in many cues the courts had interfered because the decision'
bad been s s outrageously Against the principles of t e law.
Wu it not enough that at this stage of the session these dit
acuities were sugg•etecl ? They must be a-ttain of mom
uniformity before they could allow the proposed evensinn of
the jurisdiction of the c urt. The pa ant proposal involved
so wide a principle, tLat, ss far a. he could, he shou:d end's.
your to induce the committee not to adopt it.

Mr. FITZROY said it appeared to him that the commit.
tee was a. competent to give a deci4ion on the larger sus as
on the 201. If the house acceded to the clause, anothot
clause es to appeal mlght be intrtduced on the report.

Mr. J. EVANS could not see any reasons Ur not allowing
this clause. Thee courts h-d operated well, tied he was
sure the Attorney-General would not advise any of his
friends to so to Westminster in preference, and defend an
action for 601

Sir'. GRAHAM thought that a queetion of inch ink.
portance is that of attending the jurisdiction from 201, to
301. ought to be decided directly and not indir city, lea
that, therefore, a clause should he proposed direclly and
substantially raising the question.
The committee divided—Ayes
Noes
A clause vu brought up by the Atturnty-General, sad
agreed to.

Mr. BROTHERTON having been called upon to propose
the exemption clause, of which he had given notice, declined
doing so on the present oecasins, and moved that the chair-
man relort rrogrees.

Lord D. STUART irked when an opportunity would be
given for the discussion of the compensation clause ?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL proposed to take it U.
morrow (this day).
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY trusted that words would be bi-
n rted in the clause clearly defining the principle up:n which
compensation was to be granted.

The ATTORNEY•GENERAL said that one uniform
practice had been adopted since 1846—that of giviug four
years' purchase of fees or salary.
Lord D. STUART said that that arrangement bad 1M to
great injustice in the auto, the Palace Coart. In the font

years immediately preceding abolition the tees exceeded by
10,0001. the fees a the four years occurring previous to that
term, and had consequently increased the comp. nation to
the effiders by 7,0001. He could not conceive a more shame-
ful way of dealing with the money of the nation. (Hear,
hear.) It was on these grounds he was anxious that the
house should have full opportunity for discussing the pre-
sent clause.

Sir G. GREY said that his hon. and learned friend
would take the clause at the morning bitting, if the lords'
amendments on the Incumbered Estates Bill should hays
been goes through.
The CHAIRMAN reported program, and obtained lean
to sit again this day.

INLAND POSTS (COLONIES) BILL, COUNTY
RATES, &c. BILL.
These bills ware read a third time and passed.
LABOURING POOR ACT AMENDMENT (IRE-
LAND) BILL.
The amendments to this bill were considered sad
agreed to.

STOCK IN TRADE, &c., BILL.

On the order for the second netting of this bal.
Sir H. WILLOUGIiBY hoped that if the bill were per-
mitted to be read a second time without discussion ar. oppor-
tunity would be given in committee.

Mr. C. LEWIS wu undentood to &wade to that arrange.
ment.—Bill read a seemed time.

The house adjourned at 3 to 6 o'clock.
The house resumed its Pitting at five o'clock.
NATIONAL EDUCATION.
Mr. W. MILES expressed his regret that the lateness of
the session prevented him from cal log the attention of the
house to this subject, and gave notice, in cue the differences
between the Privy Council and the National S ,ciety be not
arranged in the interval, th►t early next session be would
call its attention to the conditions imposed upon the founders
of church schools.
CHURCH PLURALITIES.
Mr. FREWEN asked the right hon. baronet the Seae-
tary of State for the Kane Departmert if he had examined
a return, moved for by Mr. Hume, of all clergymen holding
two or more benefices and preferments in the church, sad
appointed since the pasting of the act called the Pluralities
Act ; whether he was aware that by this return five hundred
aid eighty-nine clergymen have been appointed to benefices
in plurality since the pasting of this set about eleven years
ago, it having become law on the 14th of August, 1838, being
an g of fifty-three and a half in each year ; whetherhe
approved of so many clergymen monopolising church pro-
perty to themselves, and if it was the wish of her Majesty's
government that fifty clergymen should be appointed in each
year to benefices in plurality ; also, if he was aware that
some of the benefices included in the above return were
stated to be of less value and smaller population than they
were stated to he in the Clergy Litt ?
Sir G. GREY wea understood to say that he hail seen
the return, but had not examined it so carefully as to be able
to say that it justified the statement introduced in the hon.
gentleman's question.
Mr. HUME gave notice of his intention to move for a
return of the names of ail non-resident incumbents who had
obtained licenses from the diocesan, and on what ground
they had been granted.
PIRATES.

In reply to a question from Mr. IS. ‘OCHRANIN, in reference
to some newspaper reports about the pirates of Sarawak,
Mr. HAW ES said that he had not received any official re.
port from Sir J. Brooke as to an attack made on some
pirates of Sarawak, but that he had received an account of
it from the officers in command of the attack. As for the
newspaper reports, they must be received will great caution.