The Express.
London, England, 1847-06-26 00:00:00

do in math a shape se that it would pass is tha meant .coos.
He should therefore withdraw the bill. and during the I
recess he should give his best atteetioa to the subject, with
a view to bring forward a measure lowly in the nest seedon. I
He therefore moved that the chairman do now leave the
chair.
Idr. BUCK expremed a hope that the mune he bad taken
would not be considered, by the members of the select com-
mittee to whom the bill had been referred, as arising from
any want of courtesy to them.
After a desultory conversation, in which several hon.
members took part, the motion was agreed to, the chairman
left the chair, and the house stood adjourned to five o'clock.

At 5 o'clock the SPlAllik
ROYAL m
resued the chair.
ASSENT.
Sir A. Clifford entered the house, and summoned it to
the House of Lords to hear the royal assent given to several
bills, for which see Lords' report.
THAMES CONSERVANCY BILL.
Mr. WARD begged to call the attention of the house to
the circumstance+ under which he moved the recommittal of
this bill. Ho trade this motion entirely on public ground. ;
on
the ground that at present the greatest navigable river in the
world suffered front being under the supervision of totally
distinct bodies, by whom it was impossible that the money
intended for its improvement could be properly laid out.
The crown, the City authorities, the Trinity House, and the
commissioners of sewers bad each separate powers. The
honourable member for Montrose was disposed to cast
the whole blame on the City of London ; but the
report of Mr. Walker in 1841, stated that he did
not know any body having powers adequate to straighten
and widen the river, even if no impediments existed. It
was to provide a remedy for the had state of things on the
river that the '1 hams" Conservancy Bill was introduced in
the early part of the session ; the first effect of which was to
rat short a chancery suit between the crown and the City
illidt was likely to last for 20 years, during which time all
attempts at improving the navigation of the river must have
been rospende& By this bill all tolls and dues on the river
were to be vested in the conservators; the rights of the
mown and the City were merged ; united powers were to be
ereeled, and precautions were taken to provide against the
possibility of abuse. He might be fairly asked what thou
precautions were, and he was the more bound to state what
they were, as the bill consisted of 176 clauses. A superior
board of conservancy wee to be crested, consisting of the
First Lord of the Admiralty, the First Commissioner of
Woods and Forests, and the President of the Board of
Trade. By the 49th clam* they were to base entire control
over the bye-laws. The board of conservancy were to send
la a quarterly, report of their proceedings; parliament was to
be furnished with a statement of the accounts ; there
was to be entire publicity of the proceedings ; there
were to be no supersnnuations of any kind with-
out the leave both of the superior court and of the
Treasury, and the services of the commissioners were to be
completely gratuitous. By the 102nd and 103rd classes,
provision was made for removing the whole of the sheds
which impeded the navigation of the river and for inane&
ing, widening, and deepening gradually within six years the
navigable channel of the river throughout its whole extent.
The estimate made by Mr. Walker of the coat of *moving
the shoals was 100,0001., and 340,0001. for deepam and
widening the channel to the required extent. Mr. slier,
Admiral Beaufort, and the dock companies were all agreed
es to the desirableness of taking some steps to improve the
navigation, and of concentrating the powers that were now
divided for this purpose ;there existed differences, however,
as to the constitution of the board, and as that was the point
on which the recommittal of the bill would depend, be would
state how the matter stood. According to the arrangement
originally made with the government, the board of
conseruntry was to consist of nineteen menthers,
the Lord Mayor of London, five aldermen and
13 common councilmen. There was • general
of
however, on the part of the house, that the mambas of
board should not consist exclusively of penises eisaneeted
with the City of London ; and that it was dateable that new
blood should he inflased into the board. The committee
accordingly agreed that the number of the commissioners
should be reduced from 19 to 16, and that of these 15 the
City should cheese 10, and that the remaining 6 should be
appointed by the mown, and were not to be aldermen or
causes inlEleanien. The City authorities refused to accept
the alemnlkn, bat &suggestion was made that sn arrange-
ment might be tome le if the City were allowed to propose
the live commimiestses, subject to a veto on the part of the
mewls. It wonder the house to consider whether that prn
coed might net be fairly and honourably entertained by
those who were desirous of seeing the question placed on •
hilt and intelligible basis (Hear, hear.) The only object
was be me a well-regulated authority constituted for the
tt of the Thames. With this view, the gooma.
meutled to the proposal that the bill should be
re-committed. They must either do that or be prepared to go the
whole length with the hon. member for Montrose, by taking
out of the hands of the corporation rights which it had en-
joyed from time immemorial, and vesting them in com-
missioners. The latter would, he thought, be a harsh and
hasty course to pursue ; and he believed it wee nee necessary
for the accomplishment of the object. The hen. member
concluded by moving the recommittal of the hill.
Mr. HUME said that although he entertained • feeling
of great respect for the common council of London in tisk
proper position, be did not think they were the peeper par-
ties to undertake the conservancy of the river. He had
formerly consented that two thirds of the eomervatoes
should be appointed by that body ; but the City of
London rejected the proposition, and the question now
was whether, at the eleventh hour, the House of
Commons should consent to modify • bill in order
to meet the views of the corporation. He thought
that such a course was beneath the House of Commons.
His hon. friend had declared that it would take from
400,0001. to 500,0001. to tarry out certain improvesteila
Was such an amount of public money to be intrusted to a
self-elected body ? If the bill were recommitted to the same
committee, the house might be again insulted by the corpo-
ration of the City telling them 10 the end that it would not
accept it. lie objected to the crown being placed under the
necessity *reelecting and rejecting; it ought not to be placed
in such an invidious position. As regarded the condition
of the river, he foetid it stated in evidence the year before
last, that such was the Bate of the shoals in the river,
that on her Majesty's return from Scotland, in 1844, the
roysl yacht was lying for two hours woes the Beeldng Shelf,
in order to reach Woolwich. That shoal ought to have been
removed years ago. The West India steamers, sad all ether
SWAMI thawing more than 11 feet of water, were detained
teal hnif feed, Including the Hamburg steamers, which (*-
:Mley in the river six hours. A proposition came be-
eemisaittee, to the effect, that we should provide
NSW lab 111116 for the removal of wrecks. Why, what
met of mesermaey was this ? How was it that the corpora.
' don did not apply the funds which it possessed ? The fact
was, the House was cringing to the City of London, instead
of dictating to it. (Hear.) He could not help remarking that
the powers in this bill affected property along the whole
line of the river, and he had that day seen half • dozen
owners who had previously been ignorant of the fact. An
regarded the guidon of funds, it appeared that the outage
on corn in the City of London was front 60,0001. to 80,0001.
a year. If malt were imported into London from the banks
of the river Lea no charge was made whereas if it came up
the river Thames there was a charge of 4s. 6d. per ton.
Thus was every encouragement even to railroads and every
-• to shipping. He trusted that when anew

discouragement ,
parliament assembled, a committee would be appsineol te
inquire into the whole taxation of the City Lark&
(Hear, hear.) The corporation were new the Hems
of Commons at defiance; let the new Howes Oars
consider how it could relieve the subjects of mann Is the
City of London from the oppressive tams tiny W te pay.
It would be much better to reject the bill midi plesikams the
consideration of the question till another assaL TM ben.
member concluded by moving, " That this bum
the 29th day of June inst., remiss itself into a mumilloe
the whole house, to consider of on Maahis address to Me
Majesty, that she will be it.rlCiOak, pima to take Wm-
&ate measures far late that the requisite Imo
provements in the Meer sad to more bies Mir
Jody that this him ete the mum for esingtng date
effect them saistasimary *mermen/a" What be dr
sired was to au alit bigolasod far prying out the re-
quisite imprommenle, h the MR.= between the
City of London and the muse to be edissquintly settled by
law. (dear.)
Mr. J. 8. OflTLEYmidithrreasadiashbeamamhm
in that house who would tint admit fist ihe gloto at lie
Thames was a scandal bath to the margoolloa to the
country. (Hear, hear.) It was his Meads, to amp= the
intendment, esimMed, as be was, that the ermssrvemey of
the river shoal be made a public object. The
et the =dad to be as= dilmilea
lid. ThCityey saill_tbey had =Ow
ihou oda =Mod to astelakaparrnriatr oldie
bat, in point d hot, dry bad sow poomed any such
wins as thugs ride taro agibuillthis bill.
They &dually detheirl thimmilms, 11141, declaring
that they lied no pewee to mime When
soth was Me es" tio mostradod *at the ward hewer al
the muse =aid gto ll= oft= goopuglia. Oa thou
cabe had goloo to a art Moog& to
seated as • pails salMst:i that se poluis lituall
Nom the difileulties. _ _ _ _

Lead O. BERTINCK reerriced that ete 1a sasslon
ter Yastrow bad a Is a new elhenallar flat eight es
advocate of the anditpeti perogetlo of the crows. The
'opera of Loads& bed e rig* as atess et
the The tionrms show the this etdgmet WM= tbe Ciseqecoservuor ; sad
tie nom they woe ow WNW mob thee they sans fir.
ward as ramose et tbelubsidindea of the river, end co.
sullen of all lie, snap smell see yea deso.benls. The
question now wen, ~t' sr tbry sheeld emit to addreoilte
cavern to interbowith sob privileges. If they did, doyenne
be prepared to make' gnat pecuniary sorifise. The corpora-
tion, as the other hand, were prepared, lbe ommaint this bill
was pried, to raise the ausessat7 feeds red room the
Clerk which were onsplebed of. Tbek
mend to hint to be la every reap* oest=asoZ
boa its bell m; • dgredelien la the bore to mind* the
=Liof Nt seperatise, be tbseglit the polimeet and
would be gaimes et great advertises byo m-
at. Fie abeald onsiely, therefore, smart the bill.
DUNCOIIII2 wee mot aware Ott the City of
Leah bed, op t• do puma time, sods soy
at ell. na seastril et dr AdwithYr arm dors mil aid
*et be bed bed a 'fort efitistadot" ben tbo Oily, bet
who tbet e sort of Intimate" was, be did set spoor We
to wile. If the City wooled Is sepreedi the bore, they
thenM de es by the oast poems el petition, sot it do
low Ineledi with thorn in soy (Aka way, the hew wadi
dverib OWL
It
Thema wee a intik neer
enMOhiLe_lessted. It wee absurd to Wok ef a
tballotostbeVogaillathil 81"'" the TWIT IS cal-
-" Ole had alum

hatred's:aim of this bill would iallseure him upon tie pro-
rout ooteska to vote for its re.commithil. That reason was,
that practical benefits would result from the bill, whilst, if
it were not passed, a proper arrangement for the taawer-
meet of the river could not be arrived at. He was willing
to believe that this bill, if it passed, would secure efileient
management and the remove] of many existing abuses. He
understood that the corporation were prepared to submit to
the terms originally proposed by parliament ; and be was
not prepared to withhold horn them the advantage of such
submission, though, by their recent proceeding., he owned
that he thought the City had not entitled themselves to very
much consideration at their hands.
Col. T. WOOD said it was really only an accidental cir-
cumstance that they were discussing this hill to-day; for it
was only at the instance of the hon. member for Montrose
that he had given notice for further proceedings upon this
bill ; and it was only because of the hon. member's motion
that the City had been driven to offer a compromise. The
government had acted with great indecision and vacillation,
and the house was, consequently, placed in a very ignomi-
nious position. He should vote for the amendment.
Mr. WILLIAMS rose amid cries of" Oh." He said, that
as there was an evident disposition on the part of the govern.
ment to truckle to the City of London, the house should be
reminded that the Corporation of London only represented
the shopkeepers of the lowest clam. Tae great merchants
and bankers had no interest in the Lord Mayor, Aldermen,
and Court of Common Council. Those people had most
grossly mismanaged the river. As to their ancie..t pri-
vilege" the noble lord opposite was mistaken in supposing they
could trace it up to anything like the period of the conquest.
No such thing ! The corporation of the City he represented
had charters much older than any belonging to the City.
(A laugh.) The only chance they had of improving the
navigation of the Thames was by taking all control over it
out of the hands of the corporation.
Mr. Alderman HUMPHERY defended the corporation,
and expressed a wish that the bill might be referred back to
the committee, in order to afford the corporation an oppor-
tunity of accepting the terms of the government.
For the motion 92
Against it
The bill was then ordered to be re-committed.
NATIONAL SCHOOLS. .

On the question that the house at its rising do adjourn to
Monday next,
Sir D L. RVANS put the following questions:
I. ibessil the erWe of on ealaiing national school, in a parish
whim asswearsii aro not nolistont innumbers to form a seporiite
wheel, beim, he mar grass, W adopt • rule of mimagement which
shall air& the ebildinsietnassenhominin with exemption from at.
traders at Munk and her hiniminim ha theceteohirm, and should
the Mama Scheel Moiety rates Moir sanction to such rule. will
the Oonsmittee of Prtey Omit an Idmation comfiter the deeire on
the one tart he adept SW min and the refuel of the
National Selma fillet. he miNIIM or grant aid rimier such
Mroussatnnes, as romsenowEint ahem a "speci.il eve? 2. And
Is the arse et the Ormareee Of Way Oozed deeming a national
wheel. afispewsk teleniat and practice, to be within the
,ire ems; will Or lem onnadned by such school by
Mahn of NNW of mate ass her the National tithed Society,
be rhea lere earlierallea to rearableti the of aid to
bet=by the Omer et Yiley Otramil 3. It having been
skel arelleri rimer ere imolemplatal by gavernment
to raft are .of Weer Osabelhe,, vet tie Erre lord at the bead
dike geweesseat iiieve the he ,Wee a congregation of dis-
miss% who yplaw et the Wader of goverment aid to educa-
tion, he,. a rentre of Ilbseity eatenoee to them. which is
Moe mime, betided losysisadr limas Catholic tellow-aublects.
sad to *WM they me way aalleigkft the effect that additional
she hee al ha es sellee eenairtmhonA dissenter,,
alard:rie
calTaierloa wllibeet bineldag previous minutes as
et ]read esbesk, ee wept government aid with.
at berg einerairel parse ro senest to government on the
I:S
or dodos dins Emil= and pupil teachers?
rd !TTMELL said that regarding the general prin-
ciples on which the Committee of Pricy Council were pre-
I pared to act, he had already stilted i,i previous debates
that in cues where the managers of a school conformed ge-
nerally to the rules of the National Society, but did not
follow that rule which obliged the children to learn the
catechism and attend church, the Committee of Council would
feel themselves at liberty to extend aid. With regard to the
second question, in cases of loos by the refusal of assistance,
each case would rest upon its own merits ; but, gene-
rally speaking, they would be entitled to aid if they
were considered church schools. Regarding the third ques-
tion, it was intended to meet the cue of the Roman Catholics. ,1
A minute was in preparation on the subject, and the draft
would be submitted to the Catholic Institute before any
further proceedings were taken. It was likewise intended
to meet the objections held by congregational dissenters.
These objections were of en extremely refined nature, but
still such as ought not to be allowed to prevent aid being
given to schools which otherwise would be afforded. The
government said that they would be satisfied if the inspectors
reported that they were satisfied with the religious instruc-
tion given in the school. That amounted to no interference.
I Still, many congregational dissenters of strong opinions, but
praise' worth 7 conduct, felt that it was al ioterference ; and
the Committee of Council, considering such to be an
objection upon religious grounds, decided that in
these cases they would not require the local mana-
ger, of the schools to say that they were satisfied
with the religious instruction. A minute to that effect was
also in preparation; but these arrangements had regard only
to future grants, those of the present year being allotted
in strict conformity with the declarations of the government
in that house. Ile was anxious to extend the government
aid as widely as possible ; but the grants already made would
be distributed in strict conformity with those declarations.
The motion for adjourning the house to Monday was then
agreed to.
COMMERCIAL TREATIES WITH FRANCE.
. _

On the motion of Lord O. BENTINCA, an address was
agreed upon to her Majesty, praying her Majesty to be
graciously pleased to direct that there be laid before this
house conies of the commercial treaties contracted between
Great Britain and France in the yearn 1786 and 1787.
EPISCOPAL FUND. _

On the motion et Mr. Holleman, it was agreed that an
humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying that she
will be graciously pleased to order that there be laid before this
house a return of the proceeds and application of the episco-
pal fund from its commencement to the present time.
OPERATIONS IN CHINA.

Mr. HUME inquired whether the noble lord at the head
of foreign affairs would ham any objection tos lay upon the
table a copy of the instructions sent out to the British autho-
rities in China?
Lord PALMERSTON replied that it so happened that
two important despatches had not been received owing to
some accident, but he should take the earliest opportunity of
laying before the house the fullest information on the sub-
ject to which the hon. member for Montrose referred.
CAPTAIN WARNER'SINVENTION,

On the motion for the order of the day for the committee
of 'apply being read,
Lord INOESTRE moved, pursuant to his notice, for the
appointment of a select committee to consider the report of
the commissioners appointed to investigate Capt. Warner's
inventions. The noble lord complained of the derision and
laughter with which his notice of motion had been received ;
bat declared that he felt undismayed by such manifestations,
as be was determined to have the matterproperly understood
by the country. He trusted the house would not accuse him
e overweening confidence in his own opinion', but would
give him credit for a sincere and earnest conviction in the
Justice of the cause he advocated. (Hear, hear.) ln former
debates much had been said against the character and pur-
suits of Capt. Warner, and an anonymous letter—or a letter
of which the writer's name was not disclosed—had been read
by the hon. member for Salford (Mr. Brotherton), to the
edict that Capt. Warner had offered to sell his invention to
Don Pedro for 500,0001. This be (Lord Ingestre) was pre-
pared to deny by correspondence he was 16 a situation to
produce. He would not trouble the house with that corre-
spondence, with the exception of calling their attention to a
letter addressed on the 11th of the present month to Capt.
Warner, by Sir J. M. Doyle, who had beenaide-de-camp to Don
Pedro at the time to which Me letter in question referred. The
noble lord read the letter at length, and its tenor was tapirs ex-
pressions to the higk esteem In which Captain Warner was
held by Don Pedro, for his services during the Miguelite in-
surrection. He had also to complain that the right hon.
baronet, the member for Tamworth, when a motion on this
subject wee brought forward in 1842, by the late Sir Francis
Bartlett, bad stated that Capt. Warner required a guarantee
from the ggoovernment for 4410,0001., before he would exhibit
anyexperiisato of his invention. This was not correct, for
la the pentorling month of May Captain Warner had
omentueimbid to the government that he was wil-
iest te lam the amount of the value of his dis-
sever/ to their decides ; and in July, 1812, he made
• simßir teatentaieeties to the late Sir George Murray,
they the Ileaeardestesel of the Ordnance. All through the
he had be—

sale Capt. Warmer had been treated so though he . been
a swindler and impostor during the late administratiA. He
(Lord Ingest* new same to the time when the present
=asmied Is silks. He then waited upon the noble
bead of the goverament, and he must say that he
was reesivoll by him with the greatest kindness and cow.
ems.gmaThe nab lord suggested that two highly distia-
Akers ahead be appointed commissioners to within
sad mart apse experiments to be *own to them of Capt.
Walser's Jamas. Captain Weimer, without hesitation,
eacepasel the sembatisa et both Mess eSeers, as well as the
instesellembemi by thiFilleMer•Geseseal of the Ord-
naneshe whim k was that ail reports shear be
Eras is the dr setae lord at the bead of the
germment. Thus mempemealm having been mole, the
te wove appointed to take *es in a enfeeble
Aat: Meitry ilithe of Beaudeeert, the meet ef die.
Marquis of . In Heywood Park the expedients
were made, lad they had been reported by Oohed
Molnar awl ChM% W he ailed hams, he
Wthaelsgeffrea . hezineretw rolly dimmed
lowa
rat dor Il dreiNifilli ad Ile experiments made-by
Haplais Werner ea thbeserbr, et the instance of the ces.
shirt As to the mewl
or oe, the ballees bed
11:1" 11P. tar2r:r eegrialZe. dewed the adedhe at the
vetr artaddad actirredereee bra
Mesa suer t: re fah=
ad
sere wheys dr ter bed dreggral art if • camerae wee
Carhe therld be able le peer that the shells had Ihllen
oestlmona inis. At a ahlisee of four sae ten or
twelve last bra beer dropped
_within a epee sat Wise the
Ilse of that hems. Three the warildereee had
net tekaa ilts Soslie to ascertain whet becameal the drab, iiii air ash of tkogleser bra smalsed
Meths thato mil weelommed to gyre evident* bah", the
antlikii*. COI. Mli, one of the commissioners, bad
wilted for iatoincation on two points—whether certainty
mid be attained la the direction, end also in the distance
travelled. It bed bees dhows to him that both these points
were sepal* et being eathhetorily ascertained by further ea-
pliTent ; betpathltripm! hag been heard from the con-

---
swat. He bad always bees saest dadrous that Capt.
Wanter's meant should Im confined to this country ; for
although it was true, as the mintiaissiceers remarked, that
its pnaciple would be discovered the find time it was
used, yet its operation might have been reserved for some
important seessean. He regretted the publicity that bad
been given to the matter ; but Capt. Warner had been com-
pelled, in self-defence, to publish the correspondence that
had taken place. Despite the scientific opinion of the boa.
and gallant officer behind him (Sir H. Douglas), he must
contend that the invention was a valuable one, and was ca-
pable of being applied to the purposes pointed out by Capt.
Warner. The other invention, the trivial de shell, he had
seen in operation four or five times ; and nothing would be
more easy than, by its means, to guard and defend all har-
bour* and roadsteads. It would also be the means of pre-
venting bloodshed. (Laughter.) Supposing a fleet collected
in Boulogne harbour, meditating a descent on England, he
would dely, by means of this invention, a single ship to leave
that harbour without certain destruction. The same prin-
ci,le was applicable to keeping the enemy's vessels out of
our harbours. He might be told that it was a fatal objection
to the balloons—that they could not be conveyed
from place to pace, by reason of the incompressible 1:12.
ture of the ris. But he (Lord Ingestre) was prepared to
prove that this could be done; and in this opinion
he was fortified by two eminent authorities, Lieut. Webster
and Captain Harvey. To inventions of this descriptiou, ob-
jections were readily raised by many persons, solely on the
ground of the strangeness and novelty of the object pea-
posed ; another large clam of objections arose from profes-
sional jealousy; but he hoped the house would not be swayed
by any such considerations. After Capt. Warner had laid
his invention at the feet of the country, he could not see how
he would be guilty of high treason, as alleged in his letter
by the noble lord at the heart of the government, if he took
his goods and offered them in another market. He
should be glad to hear the opinion of the learned
Attorney-General on this point. It was very easy to
cry down a man in humble life in this way; but all Capt.
arner had done had been a little to overstep hon. gentle-
men on the other side of the house in their free-trade notions.
(Laughter.) He trusted the house wield agree to the appoint.
ment of a select committee, before whom he should distinctly
prove that there were grounds for pursuing the experiments
farther, and to show, by the evidence of professional men,
that the inventions were really valuable. Let Capt. Warner
be placed in a steamer, and he would undertake to direct his
operations with success against some rocky island, where
there was no property to be destroyed—one of the Scilly
Islands, for instance. (Laughter.) The noble lord concluded
by moving the appointment of a select committe.
Mr. HOLLOND hoped the government would grant the
select committee, as he was confident it would confirm the
report of the commissioners. He bud received a letter from
Mr. Green, the aeronaut, on the subject, who wished it to be
understood that he had not knowingly anything to do with
the foolish experiment. The hon. gentleman read a letter
from Mr. Green,which detailed the circumstances under which
the balloon was used upon the occasion. Mr. Green believed
the whets affair to be a great deception—(" hear," and
laughter)—and he hoped the house would order Captain
Warner to return certain articles connected with the balloon
which be bad in his possession. (Much laughter.)
Mr. BROTHERTON had been charged by the noble lord
(Lord Ingestre) with reading an anonymous letteron aformer
occasion with a view to injure Capt. Warner. Now, he knew
nothing of him, and he cared nothing for him—(a laugh)—sad
he certainly did mot wish to injure him. His only object waste
protect the public purse. Sir Charles Shaw had, in tad,
written to him, stating that Capt. Warner's invention proved
• great failure in Lisbon; and he had received another letter
also pointing out the absurdity of the whole affair and his
only desire was to save a perfeetly useless expenditure of the
public money. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL hoped, after the experiments which
had been made, that the matter might have been set at redwithout any further inquiry. (Hear, hear.) He had under-
stood that Capt. Warner could send a projectile for five
miles with precision, and that had induced the government
to wish the experiment to be fairly tried. The former go-
vernment appointed a commission ; but Ca?t. Warner, for
some reasons or other, objected to their proceeding with the
inquiry. He, however, thought the best course was to ap-
point a competent commission, and he had agreed with
the noble lord (Lord Ingestre) that the long range
should be taken as a test. The officers appointed
could not be found fault with ao to their competency to
judge of the experiment ; and he bad told the commissioners
that no expense should be incurred but such as they thought
necessary. Their impression was unfavourable in the first
Matinee but they still thought that 1,3001. might be granted
to try the experiment fully. The ground was chosen by the
noble lord (Lord Ingestre)—the commissioners waited for
some time fur the experiment to be made, and it was to be
tried under certain conditions, which were settled. An oak,
called the " Fide Oak," was the point to which the
long range was to be directed, and the noble
lord had said it was incoaceivable that any one
should have placed himself in that spot. Why he
(Lord J. Russell) must own that his fear was not
that Capt Warner would destroy the object he said he
would demolish, bat something very wide of it. (A laugh.)
And when it was proposed to try the experiment on the
Downs, in Sussex, be was afraid that it aught injure some
villages in the neighbourhood. It appeared that a particular
wind was necessary to take the balloon from point to point,
and it was impossible that it could reach the intended object
unless the wind were in that direction, which, of course,
Capt. Warner could not command—(a laugh)—if he had
staid there not only three days, or three weeks, but even
three years% and then the wind must have a certain force and
velocity to convey the balloon in precisely the same time as
the pilot balloon, or the experiment would fail. (A laugh.)
Ile reed not go into the various other reasons which ren-
dered this invention melees. (Hear, hear.) It was under-
stood between the commissioners and Capt. Warner that a

certain number of shella and balls were to be dropped at
three miles, four miles, and five miles' distance ; but it was
afterwards agreed that they should not go beyond fawnlike;
and the result was, that five balls had fallen within a mile et
the object, and that a great many others had fallen at from
one and • half to two miles' distance. Instead, therefore, of
there being certainty of aim, there was a total uncertainty of
sire; instead of using the machine under all circularise's, it
was evident there was no power whatever of so single; mi.
instead of impenetrable secrecy, the public very men beam*
aware that a balloon had gone up, and that the &ells fail
from it. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the ether levee-
tions of Captain Waraer'a, he would say nothing; but with
regard to the long range, he was inclined to agree with the
bon. member behind him, that 1,3001. was too much to ex-
pend on the experiment. It had at least every change of
success that Captain Warner could expect, and he thought
that the matter should now be considered as set at rut.
(Hear, hear.) He thought it must be allowed that Captain
Warner had completely failed in the performance of his pro-
fession, and he therefore trusted that the house would not
agree to the motion for • select committee. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. AGLIONBY thought that tue speech of the noble lord,
though he had dealt a good deal in the sarcasms which this
subject usually called forth, was the fairest in argument
that he had yet heard in opposition to Captain Warner's in-
vention. He did not know Captain Warner. but he thought
that most unmerited obloquy and abuse had been cast on him
and his invention. The epithets " humbug," " delusion,"
" collusion," had been lavished on Captain Warner, both by
persons in that house and persons out of it, who, he believed,
knew very little about the matter, and did not care to inform
themselves upon it. He had seen the model and plan of the
invention in Arlington-street, and although he would not
venture to say whether it could be made available for the
purposes of war, he still thought it was a subject that was
neither ridiculous nor absurd, but one deserving of inquiry.
He was surprised to hear a person possessed of the acientide
knowledge.of the hon. member for Hastings state that the
project of applying a balloon to the purpose intended by
Captain Warner was an absurd one. He bad heard it stated
that a person went up in the balloon, but he believed that
was about as true as the report that the ship at Brigham was
blown up by gunpowder within it. The noble lead esemed
to think that it was necessary that the wind shield be New-
by from a certain point to a certain point beim the Waist
amid be made available ; but. he believed that thee" they
meld not depend on its going to the exact poiet,
dared es it to a certain degree, and if it art=
spina harbours and towns on the coat nabs' whisk a
was intemitsd to be used, it mien commit that dhateestise
wide sesseed to be seek an object of desire to elm. He
would suggest that a moonittes of farialry dwell be ap-
pointed before which officers and ara of seisms mold la
examined, and if they were of opinion time sollekatpseade
did not exist to mew madam ozymmissat, that the manor
should drop.
Sir H. DOUGLAS desist that Oapt Warner had been
treated by the esemblemere in to his state-
ment tis badlyk se the find @Elbows' he had up two pri-
valesse, by mums of bli lavaillest, bola a vessel called tbe
Needles. beams, sitar legiakbe In all the public
saute, there was se true of air me read, or of an =
kvalemeries emeeled with Ihe allegedper
Es Ware& to die spiels that then asses w a pears
lapaddea maim& ea the srodelltp et the pea* Asa di
lam mute Lead the soils lad lad tvea mama& to the
VII" 7.ll=stt,'"gliht peoltour to whet he
lormor was neither mere nor Ins *la a bases. • (Bar,
haw.) The bet pos. that the whale weld esserast.
niz Meer, hear.)ryup Them este Sostiot of
Te aw thesewmie
Sthelium et it het dander be vavainy,die
gbh& Elias would eat Mi. The largo lam
woollosa MS. Bat Mr. Warms pirsid to kg arse*
ethos bellow demi sine, that the sea of each mold he
LOW. (" Heer,"smillmaghter,) 0041 inamaeinsi the
absurdity of such s ohms f The lam sad wail=
proceeded at KOMI With to seed smug eel sr-
Wiest"
et the
sillmainaftelleree Clap.
Warner's et the Fate- lese had beat tad
Whirrs. It boss said, " It is to.. the experiment has
felled ea hey hot at sea, with a steamer able to sail in the
wind's rye, the meth would be nuke diferent." Now the
dome of Bt. Pooh was only 100 fast inalmnster, and that of
the Plinths= lith and suing that NOM of them balloons
ma be 00 feet le diagonal,. As disold think that a straws
Ma a stiff lams. with two at those of them trisaix
1188111, would tad it ream awkward ma
laLit=liter.) Hs weald mime to riddle than
withshells at one rimeteao owe Waked pada
This, these balloons were lies the hataberdatest
pops rather expensive. But, ha hags% that woe net pert
dCaptain Warner's selielne ; hod a pea to Ism his bd.
loom. They were to be prliestedoliedherp their sheik, sad
to Its drawn back by a Bee. New, slain that the rouge
was to be four or Ova mass, be wadi leave the brew to
iersjihtleNthof ii” ."1.114 be worn', and, ?lades,

nesiod the experiment with a punt, and this opinion was
only confirmed by the explosion of the John O'Claunt. In
that case Captein Warner had distinctly premised Mr.
Sawa that the vessel was to be blown up by the
long range, whereas it was done by means of shells, a
steamer, and a tow line. He could only repeat the opinion
he had expressed when he first read the astounding state-
ments of Capt. Warner, namely, that if the man believed
them he must be mad, and if he did net, on imposter. He
inclined to the more charitable conclusion, and believed that
the propounder of such a scheme must be labouring under
some extraordinary mental hallucination. (Hear, hear.)
Capt. BERKELEY entirely concurred in the views or the
hon. and gallant member. He begged hon. members, in
the vote they were about to give, to remember that there
were many Captain Warners in the field, and that if they
conceded the committee they might expect to be inundated
by applications of a similar nature.
Lord INGESTRE said, that as he clearly perceived the
tone and temper of the house, he should not proceed to a di-
vision.

Tao motion was then withdrawn.
TRANSMISSION OF MAILS.

Mr. FREWEN r05e.77,; pursuance of a notice that he
would " call the attention of the house to the very incon-
venient arrangements that exist for the transmission of the
mails in various parts of the kingdom." The hon. member
said he could not then go into the general question ; he
would only ask a pledge from her Majesty's government, that
the case of his constituents in Sussex, who complained of
great delay, should be taken into consideration. In the next
session he hoped to move for a select committee on the
subject.
Mr. PARKER was understood to say that he would in-
quire into the special grievance complained of. Considerable
time was required for the adjustment of the railway system,
as regarded the transmission of letters, to the varied wants of
the country.
CASE OF MARY DAWSON.

Mr. FERRANI) moved for" a copy of the correspondence
which has taken place between the Secretary of State for the
Home Departnieut and the convicting magistrates, relating to
the illegal imprisonmeut of Mary Dawson in the West
Riding of York•hire gaol." The hon. member stated that
Mary Dawson was employed in a manufactory at Keighley.
She was required by the owner to weave a warp, and, as it
was a bad one, she refused to comply. She then went to
work at another manufactory. Thu e other gir:s were required
to weave the same warp, and were unable to do so. Mary
Dawson was summoned before the magistrates, who tried to
persuade her to gn back to her first employer, but she refused.
Having left her first situation on the 10th of March, on
the 13th of April she was taken from the mill where she was
working, sod, in her mill-dress, was hurried to the
Wakefield House of Correction, where she worked on the
treadmill for three weeks. Her father applied to the ma-
gistrates fur a copy of her commitment, but could not obtain
ft. He was happy to say that the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, after releasing the girl from prison, had
informed him (Mr. Ferrand) that he might have a private
view of the correspondence ithich had peered, but he
thought it would be best to have it made public.
She was compelled to herd with prostitutes and bad charac-
ters whilst in gaol, and was disgraced by being placed on the
tread-mill with them; her feet were so sore when she came
out of prison that she was obliged to be carried home, and fur
some days she was unable to walk. He did not know what
the defence was to be, but in his view of the matter, the girl
bad committed no offence against the law. He did not mean
to charge the magistrates with acting harshly, or tyrannically.
On the contrary, they were rather disposed to deal leniently.
But other magistrates, taking the same view of similar eases,
were punishing persons for these alleged offences, and it was
necessary to restrain them. He thanked the house for having
listened to his statement, and begged to move for the copies
of the c wrespondence of which ho bud given notice.
Sir G. GREY said that the hon. gentleman had correctly
stated that the case of Mary Dawson had been brought
under the notice of the under-secretary of the home depart-
ment, and that attention being immediately paid to it, a
correspondence ensued ; but this did not imply that the
magistracy had acted illegally. When the correspondence
came under his notice, he was advised by competent autho-
rity that the girl had been committed on an act of parliament
that had beennpealed, and that the committal ought to have
been based on another act. There was no misconduct on
the part of the magistracy. (Hear, hear.) Now the
honourable member admitted their leniency : and in
this case he (Sr G. Grey) was satisfied that they had
acted far from harshly, and that they had not committed the
girl until every means had been used to induce her to
return and finish her work. With regard to the statement
made by the hon, member respecting the girl's condition
after she came out of gaol, he (Sir G. Grey) had seen the
gaoler and had been informed by him that she never was en
the treadmill—(a laugh)—and that so far from having been
thus employed, she had been engaged in sewing, washing, or
some other domestic occupation. (A laugh.) For these
reasons he considered that he was justified in refusing to
accede to the motion of the hon. member.

Viscount MORPEIH entered into some explanation re-
sp.ting Mr. Ellis, the committing magistrate, vindicating
the conduct of that gentleman. There could be no doubt
that the magistrates acted from honest intentions and pure
motives, and he thought it also more than probable that they
bad acted in a belief that the committal was according to
law.

Mr. WAKLEY asked if the correspondence would be
produced ?
Sir G. GREY saM it would be contrary to the practice of
the Rome-office to produce tie correspondence upon such a
matter.

Mr. WAKLEY mid that wu a new tact to him, and he
thought it hard that in such a case--where a girl was ii.
legally dragged through the streets—(oh)—and placed upon
the treadmill—(loud cries of " No, no.")—that the corns-
pondence upon the subject was refused. He (Mr. Wakley)
took this opportunity of saying that be thought these cases
ought not in the first instance to be submitted to that house.
The committing magistrate was a very good mark for any
attorney who would show his commiseration for the injured
party. (Laughter.)
Mr. HUME said it was true the courts of law were open,
and so was the London Tavern—(laughter)—but in both
cues, only to those who could pay. This poor girt could not
look for redress in that quarter. He must say that he
thought great hardship woutd be done if the papers were not
all produced.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought the
facts of the cue required no further comment. No assertion
of the member for Knaresborou,gh had ►een proved, and
many of them were distinctly contradicted.
Col. SIBTHORP confessed he was scarcely satisfied, and
that he saw no good reason far concealing the correspondence
relating to the case.
Lord J. MANNERS thought the papers ought to be pro-
duced, if only to show whether the member for Knaresbo-
rough or the other parties in the cue were correct in their
statements.

Sir (1. PREY said that not one word relative to the state-
ments oldie member for Knareaborough would appear upon
the face of the documents referred to.
Mr. HENLEY thought the government had acted very
properly in this matter, and that there were no grounds for
salting foe the production of the confidential correspondence.
He bad no idea al sash papers being published merely to
1 urn ish meMse farms ingenious attorney.
Tha rnotisawnstasa put, and negatived without a division.

cased the government of acting unjustly, and he called ma
the house as Englishmen to pee justice done.
Sir J. C. 110BROUSE said he also asked for justice bo
himself, and he would put hefore the house the real state
of the case. The hon. member for Montecee had altered
his motion four times. First he had accused the Board of
Control of illegal conduct; then of unjust and impolitic
conduct; then ha said that, whether the withholding of
these papers was illegal, or within the terms of the act, still
it was impolitic and unjust; then, he dropped all these
charges, and merely asked for twodespatchte, one of the 24th
March, 1516, and the letter in answer to it. The hon. mem-
ber hnd since told him (Sir John) that the papers were so
satisfactory that he did not think the conduct of the board of
control was to be complained of. lie (Sir John) had con-
sented to the production of some papers, but not of others,
because they were secret papers ' • in .his refusal he had been
supported by the right hen. bareruct, the member for Tani-
worth, and the whole house. The allega.ions of the hon.
member were the most comj lete fictions that ever were
attempted to be palmed on the public as facts. He had de-
clared that the governor-general had expressed an opinion of
the perfect innocence of the It jab of Sattera. That was not
true.

Mr. HUME: Then produce the letter.
Sir J. C. IIOBHOUSE : It was net true; and the hon.
gentleman, in dealing forth charges against public bodies of
injustice, illegality, and imbecility, ought at least to know
the facts ; and be was not acquainted with any of them. The
governor-general of laths had never expressed an opinion
at all ; he had never been called on to express an opinion;
and the hon. gentleman was nee warranted in any of the
statements he had inside about these allegations. Of all
his extraordinary statements, the most marvellous was that
about the despatch of the 24th of March, one of those which
the bon. gentleman asked for, but which he did not want.
It was already printed; and Mr. George Thompson, of
whom he should say something presently, had told the court
of proprietors that he had found this despatch one morning
upon his breakfast-table, but that nothing on earth should
induce him to tell hew it came there. (Laughter.) The
I hon. member for Montrose knew very well that that
despatch could not come u 1 on Mr. George Thompson's
breakfast-table except by a gross betrayal of trust—by
violation of the oath of the person who placed it there.
Why should the hon. gentleman ask for his despateh ?
Ile would ask the honourable gentleman did he
know how it came on the breakfast table of Mr. George
Thompson ? (Hear, hear.) He accused some of the persona
connected with this affair of baring tampered with the
servants of the East India Company, either here or in Cal-
cutta, and induced them to violate an oath which they had
sworn to keep. So far from the board of control being solely
responsible, several governments bad been parties to this
transaction. First of all, the government of Sir Robert
Grant, at Bombay ,• then Lord Auckland's government and
his council • then Sir James Curiae and his council ; then
Lord Auckand again, and his council; then the court of
directors ; and afterwards the House of Commons; in all, the
question had been brought 19 times before the public; an d what
had been the result ? Out of 2,000 proprietors in the East
India Company, only eighty-two had voted on it—fifty-Ix
against re-opening the question, and twenty-six in its favour.
On one occasion there had certainly been a majority of two
for producing the papers; but at the last court the chairman
had reversed his opinion, and there was a majority of thirty-
six against the view taken by the hon. gentleman. From
beginning to end this had been got up by a house of agency
at Bombay, of which the hon. member for Montrose was the
dupe and the tool. (Laughter.) The Board of Control
had not gene beyond their powers in placing these
papers in the custody of the secret committee, or the
court of proprietors would have complained, which they
had not done. When a fitting time arrived, he had no
objection to produce this letter ; for after all. it was only
one. One of the stolen letters leid been: published—perhaps
the hon. gentleman knew hew it had been purloined ; the
other letter he had no objection to produce. The board had
written to India to find out who had stolen these letters;
they wanted to know whether the hon. gentleman had
stolen them. (Laughter.)
Mr. HUME—It is rather too impudent in the right hoe.
baronet to charge me with the theft, when I have been in
England all the time. (Laughter.)
Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE said when an answer was received
from India, he had no objection to lay it on the table ; and
he staked his credit that it would disprove every word
the honourable member had asserted. (Hear, Hear)
Private conversations with himself and other gentlemen at
the Board of Control were published in a pamphlet which he
had in his hand, and the hon. gentleman took advantage of
all this roguery. The papers should be forthcoming; but be
did not think it right, because they had been stolen,
that the hoe. gentleman should say, " Produce them." The
correspondence between the governor-general of India and
the gentleman who had charge of the Rajah of Sattara
ought not to be published. So far, however, from its
favouring the rajah it had the very contrary effect. How
did the hon. gentleman dare to charge Col. Oran., who had
the custody of the rajah, with forgery ? He was as good an
Indian servant as ever existed, and as honourable a gentle-
man • and this was a gentleman charged with being a subor-
nerOf forgery. (" Hear, bear," from Mr. Hume.) Oh,
the hon. gentleman again asserted it.
Mr. HUME—I will prove it.
Sir J. HOBHOUSE said the chant to of Col. 0111126 was
as dear to him as that of the hon. gentleman, and he would
as soon believe the hon. member would be guilty of forgery
as Col. Ovum. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME said he accused Col. Ovens of haring forwarded
to the government documents with forged seals, when he had
the seal of the Rajah of Sattara in his possession.
Lord J. MANNERS thought that the right hon. baronet
had not met one of the charges made by the hon. member
for Montrose, and he considered that the facts were very
clear that the ex-Rajah of Sattara bad been most unjustly
deposed. (Hear, hear.) Ile hoped the ton. member would
lose no opportunity of enforcing the claims of the rajah ; and,
whenever he could divide the house, he should have his
(Lord J. Manners') support. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WAKLEY said the right hon. gentleman bad vehe-
mently repelled the charges of the hon. member for Moe-
trose ; why then would he not give the exiled and unfortu-
nate rajah the means of defending himself ? He should not
discharge his duty, unless he assisted to enforce the inquiry.
A more atrocious case of persecution was net to be found na
the annals of India, or any other country. (Hear, hear.)
He was thanked but just before /or the manner in
which he had performed his duties fur 20 years, and he was
now plundered of his property, transported, and driven to de-
spair. It was because he would not submit to sign a document
admitting his own guilt that he was thus plundered and robbed.
This could not be denied, for it was edmitted by former go-
vernments. Why should the right hon. gentleman become
the warm advocate of so much Injustice, for which not he
but former governments were responsible. The hon. MM.
ber for Montrose ought not to delay a moment in giving
notice to bring the subject again before the house.
Mr. EWAlt'f was of opinion, from all he heard, that this •
question could not rest here. ( Hear, hear.) He must say
that the facia adduced by the hon. member for Montrewe bad
been most inefficiently met. (Hear, hear.) Let them bare
fthornie paper
opinion
pinbeifoo. for
ethr
them.,
id
es end then
enThe catheyse
Bode was enough to convince hint that the greatest injustice
would be be
Baron able
c toi
was done to individuals by (resentments, and that the house
of Commons too often sequieseed in it.
Mr. P. BORTIIWICK said that he could not understand
how a committee of inquiry could be refused to the bon.
member for Montrose alter the grave charges he bad made
aphid officers of the government
Lord PALMERSTON said That, at the present hour it
was impossible for his right hon. friend to enter into a full
refutation of the statements which had been made by the
hon. member for Montrose respecting so complicated anticline
as that which the house was now discussing. He thought
that no satisfactory result would follow from proceeding
with the discussion at that hour, and that it would be better
to bring the subject at another time before the house.
Mr. HUME said he was not to blame for bringing the
matter forward at a late hour, the house having been counted
out on former occasions to prevent him from bringing it
forward.
After a few words from Sir E. COLEBROOKE the subject
dropped.
The house went into committee of supply pro forma, and
immediately resumed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER obtained
leave to bring in the following bills Bill to facilitate the
recovery of the same of public money advanced for the em-
ployment of destitute persons in Ireland; Bill to continue,
for a Naked time'
I the act 9 & 10 Vic. c. 4 ; Bill for trans-
pogrom et the Arp.o Canal Company.
The bows then- oward at a quarter to two o'clock, until
the Coumiesiteers of the Caledonian Cartel the
twelve ea Meaday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-POOR_ LAWS ADMINIS•

RATION BILL.
DIV MON OR Wad= of third vadat al Ude bill.
Ara 106 ; Now, I.
AWL
T. D. Dram Mr D. Lteloi, Ica. IL Ralberte, K.
A. Rua. CoL Walisloaar. Mer 01. Sawa, H.
K.
T. Repasor, 1401
LS:Fluedol.Wcw..ll. 8yr........z...
m3lllolm.o.t,D.utilbyylii,
A.Ti..B.Llssiirsid„..,
itt.H7.6..:11.
Issea4, B.C. Ita, C.I. Motlle, lit. la E IleWMet, LA. G.,
I•olly.a.Cp.Olhoar,. 711.11a.T.Mitehell, T. A. Ire:redorvl.
M.I. .
B. 00=1,,,Itz=a::-L ~,,,.. C. &Mt..
ibilko. A. Groww, T. C. Maya, Bal.& noway T.
T. Nightie, H. J. J.
Prolhaloa, 1. 0%7: tea. Bir 0.0'=1,1)... Trawler, J.
Daily. C. Oramoor, 14.FL°' B. J. Trail, G.
H. Haim, Id C.O'Ocaor Treawyd. S.
Diagiunlitst. 8. Hammy Ilk J. Owe. Sr J. Trotter, J.
Qweadidh.lia.o.llolle. A. Paidailoo. Sir J. Turner. E
Chrfals, W. D. Heara. CV. T. Arbor, J. Vessy, Ha. T.
Clat, lin. 8/r G.llawr. S. =Jii7. W, EL 0.
Cara Via. lielwed. L CiftWillasea
CIW, Boa. R. 11.11a1m, Lard MAK . Wedelhoolo. IL
Colstroda,lllr M=67 C. Mao. 11. Ira; Zs. Wr C.
Omer, .P. Mr 1. lil. 111. Wpm, T.
=.ll. G. Jome W. C. lorkarls.J. A. masa
W. Law fraberi, Z. larrael. Lail. 11164 B.
Downs, 0. Imam, Sea C. Raw/. J. D. Was. Lord IL
--

NOM
Arkirtight. G. Cralrlbit W. IL Cleft, G. llMet, J.
Makes, G. D'Eyaceart, Ha. liaa. Wr IL Ilmumels. AIL
=IA. G. Dick.. G. Pliv. J. W. VIM.
P. Dozer, J. D. IL Lewase, 16.011.W/sr, IL
=.ll. Duscombe, T. listasak, J. Pal" 13.111.
Mr C. 11..Etwall, R. Polo% Capt.
OdbrOok D. Piekka, J. Zvi**, It. TWAIN.
CAM, J. Flom, J. Mbar% Oc.l. Wakley, T.
Mb" W. Trews, C. IL layth, kr 11. lerrarad, W. B.
"