The Express.
London, England, 1848-06-07 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JUNE 7, 1848.

veto of the Admiralty in the cue of a railway bridge
over the Clyde, that the board had been waited on by
deputation who professed to represent the authorities of Glas-
gow, headed by the Earl of Eglinton and the two represents i
tivea fbr Glasgow. No one who knew tbenoble lord would sup-
pose that he was capable of making any unfound. drepresenta.
tion as to the capacity in which he appeared; and as the
hon. gentleman (Mr. Ward) had Oren in private an expla
nation of his statement, which was satisfactory to the noble
lord, he hoped he would repeat that explanation now, as
publicly as the statement had been made.
Mr. WARD said that when the deputation alluded to
waited on the Board of Admiralty the had bun name-
:treysucceeded by another ; a great deal of conversation
with each on the same subject ; the conversation was
almost unbroken, and ho had naturally conceived that the
two deputations formed in tact one, end Teem connected
together. Ile was cert :in that be Earl of Eglinton hut no
more knowledge of the mistake committed than had the
Earl of Auckland or himself; ho therefore entirely acquitted
the noble lord of having any intention to nitsle id the
Admiralty.
COUNTY COURTS.
Mr. 11. BERKELEY said he wished to put a question to
the right hon. gentleman (Sir G. Grey) relating to the
county courts. It appeared since these courts were insti-
tuted that 6.50,5t/01. had been recovered, out of which
313,1221. had been received by the suitors, leaving the re-
minder, an average of about 50 per cent., for fees. This
was a matter wcrthy of the attention of government ; and
he wished to ask whether the right hon. gentleman had
turned hie attention to an alteration of the fees ?
Sir G. GREY aid he had already stated that the subject
was under the e msideration of contruissioners.
EXCISE LAWS.
Mr. COWAN wished to know from the right hon. gentle-
man the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether R was the in-
tention of government to bring in a bill to alter the system
of licenses, particularly in the dhse of spirit dealers ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH EQC ER said he had
two bills prepared on the subject of the excise which were
ready to be laid on the t tble. He wu anxious to state what
was the object of thoao bills when introducing them, but if
he had no upportnoity of doing so he would la them on the
table before the Whitmn holidays, without any y statement,
so that they might lie in the hands of =tub is.
IRISH POUR LAWS.
Capt. ARCH DAL L said that a cite cher having been issued
on the 23rd of May by the poor law commissioners of Ireland,
which amounted to a total abrogation of the qoarter acre
clau.e, he wished to know whether that circular was issued
with the unction of the government, or whether the poor-
law coinrui.sioners took it on themselves to drive a coach and
four through the act of parliament ?
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that it the hon. gentleman had
given him notice of his question tie should have been better
prepared with an ans wee. Speaking from recollection, however,
he believed the tact to b that the poor-law cornsuisitiont re
issued the circular on the best legal advice. 'chat advice
wan, that they could ism, relief to the wives and children of
per.ous out of the workhouse who refused to surrender their
land.
Sir J. GRAHAM asked whether there would bo any ob-
jection to lay the circular on the table ?
Sir W. SOMERVILLE did not see any objection to do-
ing so. The circumstances under which the circular was
issued were these. An individual living in Curl* on
Shannon held twelve acres of land, which he re-
fused to give up. It was then believed that
he should do so in order to be entitled to r. 3 fief. The con-
sequence was that this person died rather than submit to the
law as it was supposed to be ; his wire also died ; and a re-
port was received by the poor-law commissioners that acf
the children were oa the point of • oath. Under these cit.
cumatuaces the poor law commissionen sought for legal
advice, to know it it was possible to save the lives of the
children. It was the opinion of Mr. Henn that the poor.
law commissioners might, snider these circumstances, recom-
mend to the guardians to extend relief to persons in the
situation he described, without, in the tint instance giving
up their land, all but a quarter of an acre. The Attorney-
General concurred in that opinion.

In MIRO? to Mr. BADLIEIt,
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that he had no objection to
lay on the table the case submitted to Mr. Henn and the
opinion he gave.
WHITSUN HOLIDAYS.
Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice that he should move that
the house at its rising on Friday do adjourn to the following
Thursday.
JUVENILE POPULATION OF TILE METROPOLIS.
Lord ASHLEY said that though he had frequently
brought under the consideration of the house subjects affect
ing the condition of the pour of this courery, he did not be-
lieve that he ever submitted a motion of so much importance
as the present. Of the existence of the evil be was about to
bring Ikeda their notice no person could doubt who mem.
bulated their streets and thoroughfares, and beheld the num-
ben of' filthy and ragged children who squatted around tl.e
courts and alleys of the metropolis. When he had slated the
facts respecting the physical and moral condition of this.
persons to the house, he thought it must come to the coo-
clusieu that an immeeiate remedy ought to ba applied to
abate the evil which existed. It appealed to every senti-
ment of humanity and every notion of justice; aad in
respect to the temper of the time aad the age in which they
lived it was a matter of vital importance for the conside-
ratieu of those who consulted fir the safety of the metro-
polis. He brought the subject forward at present princi-
pally with a view of exciting general interest on a matter
that must become one of the most stirring questions that
could occupy the attentiou of parliament. (Hear, near.)
Ile believed he might assume that the evil was
acknowledged, though it was net fully estimated.
The evil was peculiar in every respect, wad it must I e met
by peculiar means. The belief generally entertained on the
subject was, that the wandering vagabonds in their streets
were a few isolated persons, who could be easily extin-
guished by a little exertion on the part of the police, or at
lead reformed. A little inquiry, however, showed that these
persons termed a totally distinct clam, with habits, pursuits,
and callings peculiarly their own : they frequented the same
retreats, and dwelt in the same localities—for though they
were ever shifting as individuate, they were stationary as a
class—where they perpetuated and multiplied their dis-
orderly and filthy life. For this infermatioa they were in-
debted in a great measure to the London City missionaries,
aided by the Sunday-school teachers, whose patient and
constant re.earches fathomed the depths of these haunts of
human misery. (Hear, hear.) The firer cousideratisu that
arose au, u to the pzolvable number of this perticuler
It was not an easy matter to arrive at a correct edimite as
to their numbers, but from all the inquirLa he was ahle to
make, ho should say that the class of naked, filthy, deserted,
roving, lawless persons, the very seed plot of the crime of the
metropolis, was not less than 30,000. He meant this per.
ticular class as distinct from the ordinary poor, and he be-
lieved that 30,000 was below the real numbers. Ile would
now state what the peculiar hab;ta and pursuits of this class
were—the nature of their dwelling'—lie might say in a
word, their sutural history. Upon au ex amin ation of 15 schools
t :e number of persons in the books amounted to 2,315, whose
ages ranged between 5 and 17 years. The average artadance,
however, was not more than 1,600. Of these, 162, or one-
tenth, confessed that they were in prison wirers! times; 116
had run away from home; 170 slept in lollginglii.usee,
which were the nests of everything abominable that the
mind of man could conceive ; 253 confessed that they lived
altogether by begging ; 21G had no shwas or sleeking. ; 280
had no caps, hats, or bonnets; 101 had no linen; 219 never
slept in a bed. He could any of his own knowledge that
many of the children could not recollect that they ever slept
in bed. 68 were the children of convicts ; 12.1 had step-
mothers, to whom might be traced much of the misery that
drove the children of the poor to the commission of crime ;
306 had lost one or both of their parents, the larger proportion
having lost both. The average attendance in all the schools
last year was about 4,000. Of these 400 confeasedthey had been
in prisen, 660 lived by begging, 178 were the children of
convicts, and 800 had lust one or both of theirparents. With
respect to the employment of this class, they might be dis-
tributed into street sweepers, venthrs of lucifers, sellers of
oranges, cakes, and providers fur marine stores, which—
hon. members might not be aware of the fact—was the en-
phone= term for the receivers of stolen goods. (Hear.)
The house would like to know how these persons passed
their lives, and how they found shelter against the wind and
weather,—under arches, bridges, viaducts, porticoes, 'beds,
carts, and outhouses; some adapt in the open air,
and some in lodging-houses. He recelleeted a boy who told
him that last year, during the inclement part of the winter,
be passed a great portion of hie time in the iron roller in the
Regent's Park. (Laughter.) And to show the sympathy
and good feeling which may exist, even amongst tha class,
he told a companion that he would let him in for a good
thing, and communieated to him the secret of the roller, and
for the remainder of the winter both of them passed night
alter night in the iron roller. (Hear.) He would now read
to the house a description of the lodging-houses, those
abominable sinks of all iniquity, where many of these persons
slept. It was the description of a City missionary, and it
was by nn tuesus exaggerated. lie says " the pulour "•
for be it observed they always speak in cuphonoua language
—" measures 18 feet by 10 feet ; beds are ranged on each
side, composed of straw, rags' and shavings. Here, in this ,
room, arc 27 males and feu.ales, and 31 children-58 human
beings in this contracted space, from which light and air are
systematically excluded. It is impossible to give a just idea
of the state of the place. The quantity of vermin is as.
tonishing. In a few momenta I felt them dropping on my
hat from the ceiling; they may be gathered iu handfuls.
Of water there is nothing of the sort; and one
of the inmates broke a lamp in order to be
sent to prison, which he knew would procure him
a cleansing." (lieer.) Many of these lodging-houses were
exclusively receptacles for boys and girls of a tender age.
h't aced not state to the house what was the result of such a
etete• of things, and what a variety of circumstances stood in
the we? of any meral improvemeet Ile believed that seven-
tenths os the crime of tte metropolis was perpetrated by
haaalodifc.. h ouses. The magistrates of
persons hangltrighten mule reports to
Warwick and the authorities 0f the lodging-houses
the same effect. It was not alone in the
d.
outer 7eir.
that temptations to vice existed. Even ie
..
boys were exposed to influences which we.
termite to their morals as to render any Mir,
.1.121.,,1er..
He would nail a description of a mat which he a•a
ti
• ;it was only a sample out of hundreds of others. '"
one there were only three privies to 300 hundred houses ;
two to 200 in another. la those places scenes of this moat
were of daily occurrence, that ull
sum of▪ modesty and decency was entirely lost.so (Hear,
hear.) In some places several families lived in one room,
and where one family were so fortunate as to have a room to
themselves the adults and the children lay together, so
that cleanliness was impossible, and scenes of filth, raircry,
and vice were frequent. (Hear, hear.) This dwelt).
Lion would give the house some idea of the places where
these children dwelt, beenuse this peculiar race was found in
almost all instances in the most filthy, deditute, and un•
known parts of the metropolis—places seldom trod by a per-
son of decent habits. (Heir, hear.) These localities were
mostly in the neighboarhood of macoyered sewer', Ilaraut

ditches, and nightmen's yard., from which the soil was sel-
v r
dom or neer emoved. It was not possible for any language
to convey an adequate idea of the poisonous condition
these place., occasioned by the mass ol putriting matter.
These !statements were by no means an exaggeration of the
facts. (Hear, he
He would not assert them if he was
not able to do so on his own personal authoty ; fur after
toeing his election in 1845. he devoted a portion of his time
to see what the poor ware doing in those haunts which were
untrod by any decent person. (Loud cheers.) Ile believed
that he gave a description that was below the truth, and if he
could prevail on hon. members of that house to accompany
hint he was sure they would ray be had made but a weak i
statement, and that hey would not rest till they had swept
from the face of the metropolis this patalysing and abominable
mischief. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the physical and
personal condition of these children, Dr. Addis says, " they
are emaciated, tsar, and thin, depressed in spirit, with small
appetites, and pies in duff: rent parts of the body. They
seek relief in intemperance." Another person nays, " they
are pale, squalid, 'sickly, and irritahle." The consequence
was the is nervous temperament was so elicits d that they be-
came susceptible to the slightest napes onions, and possessed
great aptitude for acquiring knowledge. Mr. Chianpneys,
of Whitechapel, says he was struck with the acuteness and
intelligence of these children ; but he makes the remark
that they were equally susceptible of horning what was
bad as what was sow, and that hundreds of them were
driven to vicious courses and died at an early sae. They
were generally unlit for employment et first, owing to phy-
sical detects ; and live of the picked children of the schools, for
whom he was offered employment by the First Lord of the
Admiralty, were not ali;o to pus the neerieriry examinations,
%Viten, however, they were fur six months accustomed to
better food and air, they were as fit for employment as soy
other persons. The following was the report of a city mis-
sionary who opened his house to all of this class who chose to
apply to him fot advice and assistance : Front dune to De-
cember he received 2,343 visitors, being en aver go of 33'2 u
month. Of these 39 confessed that they had been in prison ;
11 per nt. th it they were confined once ; 4 per cent. twice ;
5 per cent. three times ; 2 per cent. four times ; 2 per cent.
ten times. Whet were the entoses ? The cause % arose
from desertion, the bad example of parents where there
were parents., and in many instances from absolute necessity.
Because of this they might he sure that there were hundreds
and thousands in this town who never received a meal, and
never expected a meal except what they ebtaini d by begging
or stealing. (Hear.) Very many were led to crime by the
receivers of stolen goods. and a great deal of misehiet arose
from the sanitary condition in which they were left. (Ilean)
lie found from the police reports that GO,IBI persons, of all
ages and both orxes, were taken fit() custody in 1547. Of
these, 20,702 were females, and 41,479 were males. Thee!
solder 20 years of age were 15,693; between 10 and 15 yetis
:t,682 ; under 10 years of age 362. Of the entire number
'22,075 could neither read nor write, and 35,227 could only
read, or read and write imperfectly. Ile was nut ono
of those who thought that mere literary attainments would
be of much use in regulating the conduct of these persons;
hut the fact showed how much these young persons had
been neglected; 28,113 out of the 62,151 had no trades or
calling of any kind. Depend on it that in these days such
persons would be ten times more paralysing than a- other
peeled., if the house did not rouse itself to a mitigatioo , if net
to the overthrow of the portentous evil. (Hear, hear. i Let
it be recollected that there was a great deal of the evil that
never was seen, and he was afraid if the opp srtunity oc-
curred that it would surprise them one day with its gigantic
proportions. ( flear, hear.) Ile believed that the majority
of these criminals arose out of chisels's., and though it might
not he possible to remove crime altoso then he thought
that they could do a good deal to ideate it. lie would
cow turn to the influences to which the children were
exposed. Every description of felony had increase.% ex-
cept as regarded thefts of linen, which had abated— a result
ascribable, as he firmly believed, to the provision of baths
and wash-houses far the poor. Now he wished to point out
the results of these schools. The opening of them was abso-
lutely a service of danger. The children came down to them
in a state of insubordination. On the other side of the water
there was one school where sixteen young men came down
smoking tobacco-pipes, and absolutely prevented instruction
being proceeded with until they had 1. ft. In another case in
Agar-town, the children absolutely b. rieasled the
door. In a third ease, a gentleman who went to
teach in one of three tee:eels, shook one of the
boys: the bey came behind him and pushed him
down, and had he not preserved his dignity, by inouroine
that he bad accidentally fallen, the school would have been
broken up. In another instance that he knew, a policeman,
being called in to keep order, undertook bi teach the boys,
and suchpopularity did he obtain that he was chri-tened
" King of the Peelers." These boy. were, in foe, net to I
be brought under ordinary rules. They had been suleect to
no domestic centre), and they would have their oun way.
In the summer time it was very didicult to obtain their at-
tendance. In the Broadwey-school the number attending
in winter wae 204, whilst at this period of the year the num-
ber was only 40. They enlist only attend of an esening.
They were also very migratory. Out of 507 boys admitted
into the Laralseth-school, early last 3 ear very few attended a
few menthe after. A City missionary in that district de-
clan d his belief that the population migrated every month.
The government were surely bound to do something to meet
such an evil as this. It must be evident that the ease was
very peculiar—that there were no orgardeations fit to deal
wilt it. He had heard it said th it something of a system of
national education ought to be adopted to meet these cases
But this suggestion raised the relates 9wralio what the the-
meter of that education should be ? Another suggestion
was that grants should be made by the Educa-
tional Committee, and that schools should be established
under an insp. eon But where was the inspector
to be obtained 2 It would be next to impossible to get a
cempetent person. A third plan was, that large barracks
should be built for them out of London. ar.d tbattfiey should
be conveyed there in large numbers. But this system was
a very injurious one, and bail been found in our workhouses
to be far teem answering its object. Beeider, one object,
under this system, was totally lost, viz., that of use:metier-
iurr, through the children, to effect some reformation of
adults. The only way the parents were to he approached
was through the medium of children. Hundreds upon hun-
dreds of instances could he given of it. Let him tell the
house how ragged schools were carried on. There were
:shout GO of thew in London end the suburb*. They were, in
mosey instant es carried on inouthouses or converted stables.
Reading, writing, and casting, were taught. The Bible
was read. 'I he managers and teachers consisted of persons
of all denominations. Hie right hon. friend (Sir James
Graham) asked what was the religious teaching. There was
a central committee called the Begged School Union. That
rostra! beard made grants, and required that the
Bible should be read in those schools in all its integri y. In
ether respects the religious teaching was left to the local
board.. All they demanded .89, that the Bible, and the
whole Bible, should be read hy the children. In anything
that might be done for the advancement of this system, it
was in ,the highest degree necessary to guard against
detractilg from the local zeal, or damping the
moiler of the voluntary efforts of the people. But, at the
une time, such assistance might be given as would preserve
the principle of these schools in all its integri'y. The pro.
p.m hien that he made was, that the government should agree
ILO take from these schcels every year 1,000 children, 000
Hoye and 500 girls, and should transplant them to South
Australia or one other of our colonies. He proposed that
this should be a reward for good conduct. lie should not
assign any time that they should be at the schools, because
one child might be better qualified in ashorterspace than an-
other ; all he waisted to secure was a recompense for moral con-
duct. Now the ad vantagesof this would be indescrib tble. First,
there was the stimulus which would be given to the schools.
lie had no doubt that they would be much better supported
if the rich saw that something practical was gained by giving
their money. Look at the benefice that would be conferred
on the children. They wire not now three months in a
school without uspiring to higher things, and what would be
their feelings if still more important advantages were held
out to them? -They might be expected to walk in all the
dignity of honest men and good citizens. At present,
let them remember, the prison was no gismo to
them. It constantly happened now that a boy
came to the school for a few days—was then absent for
a month or so—then returned, and on heing questioned,
replied:—" Very sorry I could not come before, but had
three weeks in Brislewell." Hold out to them this
hope, and they, might expect to see the work of edema-
tion established and a most healing influence might
be expected to be produced. But then he came
to the conditions. " Was the plan he proposed a prsc
ticable plan ?" Now the evidence from all our Australian
colonies went to show the soil want of labour existing in
them. Mr. Cunningham, of Port l'billip, declared that any
species of labour could be employed there. Suppose 1,000
were sent out every year, how would they be disposal of ?
Ile was told that fur every thousand sheep three persons
were required with wages of 201. per annum, a house, and
weekly rations. If but three persons were sent to each staff en
they might send at once to Australia 12,000 persons. For
females the demand was greater. Ile knew a ease where a
just arrived from England, obtained 51/. a year wages
ian a lady's maid in Sydney. In Port l'hillip the males were
to the rentals s as 9 to 1 ; whilst in this kingdom the excess of
1 (malts over males, according to the last census, was 358,164.
I How much good, then, might be done by transplanting some
of the poor girls of London to our colonies. Nothing but re-
' solution was required to effect that object. lie hoped he should
not be met by the answer that any system of emigration ap-
plied to these school, must be applied to allscheols, for he had
shown that the circumstances of these schools were peculiar.
He contended that crime was the most expensive state for
the country in which its lower population could be involved.
ragged
It was calculated by Mr. Smith, the manager of the ragg
I school at Edinburgh, that every five pounds a year paid .for
' a c!.ild at the ragged school raved the country, in mere
money, from 111. to 171. per annum, in rescuing that
child from becoming chargeable as a prisoner. There was
an annual outlay of very nearly a million of money for the
prevention, detection, and punishment of crime in and
arosini London, and be was well persuaded that a large pro-
portion of this expenditure—looking at the Twitter merely
in a pecuniary point of view—could be saved by the measure
which he proposed es a means of removing our poor children
from the sphere of temptation to a locality where they
could live honestly and happily by their own exertions. He
was convinced that if government would take the initiative
in this beneficial course the example would lie gladly fol-
tweed by the authoritit a in every over-populated district
rOroughnut the land. The noble lord concluded by moving,
ss.TOist it is expedient the means be annually provided for
the voiuntery emigration, to some one of her Majesty's
colonies, of a certain number of young persons of both sexes,
who have been educated in the schools ordinarily called
' rag.oed school.'in and about the metropolis."
Sir H. VERNEY cordially thanked the noble lord for
the proposition he had so humanely and ably brought
befem the house.
Sir G. GREY said that no one could have listened to the
!Teeth of his noble friend without a feeling of deep interest.
There could be no doubt, unhappily, of the sadly demoralised
condi•jon sf a yery large prope;tion of per puenile prole-

lion ; and the greatest credit was due to those persona, of all
Masses, who, from motives of Christian philanthropy, applied
their efforts to runs the children of the country from their
wretched state. This was not merely a Christian or moral
question, but one affecting the political and social interests
of the country, and it was clearly the duty of the govern.
meet, as for as possible, to lend its aid in applying a remedy
to the evils so truiy stated by his noble friend. The
ragged schools were already doing much towards
the good work, and more especially in the exam-
ple they afforded of what might be accomplished by
gentle means and moral example. Tho right hon. gentle-
man adduced to the game purpose the good effeeta which
were achieved by the efforts of the managers and teachers at
the Philanthropic &boo), and passed a high eulogium indi-
vidually upon Mr. Turner, whose exertions had been so
successful 111 the reformation of youth. Ile mentioned that
tho Aberdeen Ragged School, from the admirable manner
in which it wee managed, had already completely abolished
mendicity from the streets of that city. The cause had been
most effmeually served, too, by several excellent pamphlets
published on the subject, by the noble lord himself,
by Mr. Diekeas, and other benevolent men. At the
same time, 10..kieg a' the mass of crime which
existed, it was too evident that a long time must elapse before
even the most energetic efforts in tnis direction could pro-
duce any very material diminution of that inau. To the
principle of the noble lord's proposal lie had no objection ;
the govertime tit, indeed, were ale catty acting upon it, by re-
moving offenders, at an age earth r than hornet ly, from the
danger of evil communications, to our foreign settlements,
and putting them in the way to earn their own living ho-
nestly and profitably. He could assure the noble lord that
no exertions would be omitted by the emigration commis-
sioners, and the Colunial Wilco, and by tho govern-
meet generally, to carry his views into operation,
as rapidly and as effectually as pessible, and this
with regard to youthful offenders throughout the country, as
wed as to those of the metropolis. (Hear, hear.) Ito hoped
that his noble friend, accepting his assurance of the entire
concurrence of the government in his views, anal of their full
intention to carry them out, would consent to withdraw his
motion. The hen. gentleman midi et that already the efforts
of the governineut in facilitating the emigration of young
females from Ireland were producing the best results.
(Hear, hear.)
CONULLY fully corrob mated the eatement that the
emigration of young females from Ireland was effecting • ma,
tenni benefit far that country.
Mr. liteltSNIAN said that the noble lord, by this most va-
luable melon had added greatly to the deep debt
of gist tulle which the country already owed him. As
simply a means of economy, the Chasm:ller of the Exchequer
ought In have seconded the motion.
Mr. F. SCOTT expressed the hope that the government
would, as aeon as possible, take energetic measures to carry
out the views so ably stated by the noble lord. He had him-
self that day waited uu Lorl John Russell, to urge upon
him the extension of emigration by means of government
advances upon local rates. The government advanced money
to drain waste land ; a not less valuable assistance would be
to advance money to drain off waste population.
The colonies of Australia abounded in food, which wan
weasel there as men were wasted here.
Mr. SLAN EY bad heard the speech of the noble lord and
'of Sir O. Grey with great satisfaction. Ito hoped the goblet
lord w sold not press his motion aft( r the encouragement be
had received hum the right hon. barmen
Mr. V. SMITH said that the universal acquiescence of all
parties in the projects and views of the noble lord was one
of the most dangerous modes in which such • motion
could he received, for whilst every one agreed in
the pure philanthropy of his noble friend's endea-
vours nobody ever thought of the practical mode of
carrying them into effect. But his melee friend had
placed before the house a plan admirably adapted to am: bo-
rate the condition of the classes whose condition he had se
well stated to the house, and instesd of being satisfied with a
general promise on the part of the government, he ( Mr. V.
Smith) only wished that he (Lewd Ashley) had moved an
address to the crown, praying fur a definite stun of mane
for the purpose of carrying into practice the views he had
explained.
S:r I'. H. ACLAND recommended the comeletest
urca-
aimity on the pr, sent que stem, as any other course wuuld
Ibe prejudicial. He lied the strongest Colliitielleo in the
Home Secretary's assurance, that the government would do
its best to promote the plus of the noble lord.
Mr. B. HAth'ES regretted that his right hon. friend had
cast any doubt upon the sincerity of the Home Secretary in
respect to the views of the government regardine the plans
of the noble lord. The questirn of emigration had re-
peatedly engaged the attention of his right hon. friend the
Home Seen terry end himself. .1 he question was one of
money. It was proposed to ask for 10,0001, this scar partly
to defray the cost of sending out the wives and families of
convicts to Australia -a smell portion would also be applied
to the purposes of emigration from the ragged schools.
There was another source of funds—namely, the colonies,
which might be justly called on to contribute to such a
urpose. There were funds ari'ing from the sale of colonial
lanes also partly applicable to emigration purposes. Ile
agreed with the noble lord iii his estonate of the importance
of encouraging female emigration from Ireland. If the noble
lord allowed the irevernmeut time to neaten, his plan, he (Mr.
B. Hawes) thought it might be found practicable. It '
ought not, however, to he limited to the metropolis, I
but it ought to be extended to the whole kingdom,
Lord MAIION said that the statement of the Under Seem-
toy for the Celenies with respect to the stylication of the
sum of 10,10t01. for the purposes of etuigratien of clavicle'
wives to Von Dienten's Lawn was at variance with the'
answer given to him (Loral Mahon) on a former occasionre-
lative to the same grant of money.
Mr. B. HAWES said that it was found to be practicable
to apply the sum in question to Australia generally, instead
of confining it to Van I tiernen's Land.
Sir E. N. BUXTON said that while he joined in the
passel upon the labours of the noble lord (Lord
Ashley) in the cause of the parer chases of the community,
and the eloquence with which the noble lord had opened the
question that evening, he (Sir E. N. Buxton) must call at-
tention to the claims of another class of the neglected poor
of the community—he meant that class which, though poor,
were Indio trious and attentive to tee education of their
children.
, ' Mr. M. MILNES supported the proposition made by his
noble friend the member (or Bath.
the government would cot disposs of this all-important
matter by civil words and mere complimmitary phrases, but
would be prepared at an early ;eel tot to make great and im-
portant written on Dahill of the labouring classes of the
community.
Mr. ADDERLEY wished to call the attention of the
house to the fact that in the county he rep, tented societies
had already been f armed by the working nien themselves to
promote the emigration of them. is and their fellow-
labourers. They had done this after retiring from chartist
associations; and he mentioned this fact to induce the go-
vernment to assist these men is the attainment of their
object.
Mr. WESTIIEAD read to the house two letters lie had
recently remise d from his agent in South Austraii n, stating
the demand there was in that colony for additional labour.
One of the letters stated thst the farmers could not get
labour sufficient for their purpotes, and were laying 13s. to
14,. per acre for reaping, finding the laborer with lodging,
the best of food, and a bottle of wine (value one shilling) per
day.
Lard ASHLEY said his object in moving for this grant,
was to make an experiment,—to get in the thin edge of the
wedge, and then to drive it further. Ater the way in
which hie motion had limn met, he would not take so hos-
tile a course as to divide the how, but would continue to
jog the memory of his right hon. friends opposite on theeub-
je ct. (Ilea.)
The motion was then, by leave, withdrawn.
LOWTHRRSTOWN UNION.
Catimiu ARCILDALL rose to being under the considera-
tion of the house the allegations c nitaned in two petitions
of the late poor law guardians of the Lewtheritewn union,
and of the rate-payers of the Clonelly district of that union.
The elected guardians had been dismissed on the 15th of
September lest by the commissione rs, who attributed mis-
conduct to the board for suggesting the payment by instal-
ments of the money advanced to them under the Temporary
Relief Act. At a meeting on the Bth of September, the
guardians bad come to this resolution solely with the
view of alleviating the burden on the poorer rate-
payers. The commissioners, instead of taking into
consideration the suggestions of the guardians,
abruptly dismissed them within a wick rafter, and
appointed two gentlemen, Mr. Lucas and Mr.
Hopper, to take charge of the union, by which the rate-
payers complainer: that they had been put to very great un-
necessary expense. Unfavourable centrum for bread had
been entered into; and in a short time these gentlemen were
removed and two others appointed. One of these was Mr.
Morton, a very r xcitahle and eccentric person, whose reports
showed his total inefficiency for the management of the
workh .use. The unpaid guardians heel been reinstated in
April last; and in a ninth from that time they succeeded in
reducing the nunitiere receiving outdoor relief from 2,829
to 1,767. The reinstatement of the unpaid guardians woe
not consider, d as an admission of error on the part of the
commisriouers. Mr. Twistleton had proved himself hasty,
arrogant, and over-hearing; and such conduct was nut to be
tolerated by the guardians and rate-payers. Ile moved the
appointment of a select committee to inquire into the me.
SIT W. SOMERVILLE said that, atter this notice had
, been several we' lea on the paper, the hoc. and gallant
1 member had concluded with a different motion from that of
which he had given notice. His notice was to call attention
to a petition, which contained a direct charge against the
commissioners of having dismissed the guardians from
pc tty spite and unworthy motives—the alleged ground
being the refusal of the guardians to dismiss the
workhouse master. The papers before the house
proved the gross, unpardonable, and scandalous neglect
of the guardians in the management of the work-
house ; even the children were neglected, and had not suffi
Meat food ; and if ever there was a case where the power of
dismissing the guardians was properly exercised, it was this
of the Lo etbentown union. These guardians had positively
refused to carry out the act of parliament after repeated re-
monstrances from the commissioners ; and that was the short
history of the case. The hon. and gallant member had spoken
harshly of Mr. Morton, whose duties had been discharged in
the most satisfactory manner and with the most distinguished

ability.
Col. CONOLLY thought the guardians justified in their
wish to impose a moderate rate.
Mr. F. FRENCH considered the language used to these
guardians was quite unjustifiable. Mr. Twistleton hail hail
no experience whatever in working the poor-law in Ireland,
and his attempts to force his views upou the people were
, most offensive.
' Mr, E. B. ROCIIE thought the whole system must he
changed, and that the local bodies must be vested with
greater powers. This act of the central board had not been
shown to be otherwise than arbitrary and despotic.
Sir F. NUGENT tsz,4 no hesitation in saying that a more
untoward act had never been committed than the dismissal

----------
of these boards of guardians. Mr. Twistlet= was re-
sponsible for all the evils of the system u it was working in
Ireland. He eould not understaud any reason why investi-
gation should be denied.
Sir 0. GREY hoped the house would not adopt any
motion involving a vote of censure upon the poor-law com-
missioners of Ireland without a full consideration of all the
peculiar circumstances of the care. No doubt the commis-
sioners might, insome instances, have erred; it was inevitable
for men so situated to do so ; but he could not admit that
In the case of the Lowtherstone guardians the commissioners
had exhibited either undue haute or abitrariness.
Colonel DUNNE could not but think that the commis-
sioners hod failed to exercise a proper discretion in their con-
duct towards the Lowtherstone guardians.
hlr. REYNOLDS was as anxious as any men to see the
principle of the Irish poor law carried out, but he was per-
ctly clear, at the COMO time, that its details required ma-
label amendment, and he felt that look amoadtmrtte would
completely defeat the (*lea "...those who desired to get rid I
of the poor low altogether. Ile considered that there were
strong reasons for dismissing the Lowtherstone guardians,
whmo apathy—not to call it obstinacy—in reference to the
collection of the poor rate, endangered the lives of the poor
in their locality. He urged the gallaut member to with-
draw his motion.
Mr. MONSELL also requested Captain Archdall to with-
draw his motion.
Captain ARCIIDALL said that, as ouch seemed to be
the general feeling of the house, he would withdraw his
motion.

I'OItTUOAL.
Mr. URQUHART alterud tho terms of his motion on this
subject, and postponed it to another day.
RAILWAYS llt ELAN D.
Mr. FRENCH brought in a bill for securing to Ireland a
complete system of railways, which was read a first time.
PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
The report of tho committee on this bill was brought up,
the consideration of the amendments being postponed.
The house then adjourned, at a quarter to one.

ELECTION COMMITTEE—YESTERDAY.
Dunt.tri.—The scrutiny was further proceeded
with. Three votes for Mr. Reynolds were objected to, two
of which objections were guanine& in the third cage the
committee declaring in favour ut the v.didity of the vote.

LAND (NATIONAL) COMMITTEE.— Chairman
informed the strangers present that although they had been
admittid it was with the express stipulation that no part of
the proceedings should be published.