The Express.
London, England, 1851-02-05 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 5, 1851.

liberty of the nation. Do not, then, my lords, underrate
the nature of the contest you ere now called to. If you
nataa noting—if you purport to intradgee some rams-
sure to put wine. enactmepa oNtestuteebaok to
be treated as a dead. lettef, ens„ evaded. and
overlooked; if you forbid the cainnip of the title
or the Bishop of Nuttinftam, het ,eti7l lease the
Roman catholic Bishop of Nottisglwra- 'way Roman
catholic bishop, to temp:etc a synoama arganisation, and,
emeagh that, to maniac bonnabee .f axes the con-
sciences' of our Roman catholic fellows-
..s, you will, I
tell you, have done nothing towards meeting the evil.
(Hear, hear.) I tell you, unless you touch the substance
ofthe evil, you make your unman-emirilie-fellow-objeeft
the victims of a tyranny, which it has been mid by the
noble lord, the first minister, and has beenrepeated to-
night by one of the noble ionic who had introaaced the ad-
dreas,wouM not have been tolerated inßomen embolic times by
our Roman catholic ancestors, and under.a Roman catholic
sorer:lien. (Hear, hear.) I will say, further, that what
you do with regard to England yoii ought Lim to do with
regard to Ireland. (Cherie.) That which is a violation of
the supremacy of the crown in England is a violation of the
supremacy of the crown in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) You
cannot separate the two; the English chards is the Irish
church; and you cannot separate those clitireies whkh,
once for all, were indissolubly united at the period of the
union. (Hear, hear.) I silt you, then, again, my lords,
not to shut your ere to the gravity of the occasion. Da
not, after rousing the expectations—l will nut my after
musing the prejudices of the protestant community of
England, Ireland, awl Scotland, falter with so grave a
question. Do not come to a lame and impotent conclusion
—do not avoid the substanee and confine yourselves to the
shadow of the injury of which you have so whew:way com-
Yplained, and which you have summoue,l the nation to mist.
ou, the govern= at, have gratuitously kindled this ex-
citement ; the enkindling of which, under any circumstances,
I, fir one, deeply deplore. But as you have enkindled it,
cease not until, by the intervention of porliara, nt. you have I
allayed it by a deliberate and final settlement of the mil-
chief. I will not consent to rob my Roman catholic fellow-
subjects of one jot or tittle of their civil rights as conferred
on them by the act of 1829. I know not what may lie the
measures directed to this questieu which we shall be invited
to consider by her Majesty's government. Whatever those
measures may be, we will, at least, hope for a realisation of
the expectations which the first minister has excited.
(Hear, hear.) I hope to find in them a means by which
the Roman catholic worship will still be left free, and by
which Roman cutholice will be still permitted full possession
of every our of their civil rights. But I hope also that I shall
find in them a meal.. of reconciline thew results with a Sads
factory eindieattontof the supreinat y of the crown. I warn the
government that if they fall short of oar great expectations,
if they suggest it pretence and do nut enact a fact, if they
give us no remedy against these wrongs, and no revenge for
these insults, if, after such langusese, we fiod them prepared
with no doeds, then there will rest en the head of the
noble lord (Lord John Russell) a heavy heal of reaponeibie
lity. fur having trifled wah the deepest and the holiest feel-
ings of the country, for having raised the hopes and expee ta-
thinner all protestants, nice, if they would speak out, of a
large proportion of enlightened Illn ral Roman catholic*,
(hear, hear.) and they wal have reduced this country, or
certainly every Homan catholic inhabitant of it, to a submis-
sion to the court of Rome, which, when we hail a Roman catho-
lie parliament awl were a Roman catholic people, we never
consented to endure. (Cheers.) Your legislation, in
effect, must be vestal to the emergency. You must look
the whole case in the face, and you must met t it Willy—
disprousiouately, but boldly. (Hear, hear.) You must net
trifle; you must go to the full extent of the difficulty.
And I will venture to my that if that be the course pursued
by her Majesty's government, no feelings of party altar,
actuate me, or that gnat body with whom I have
the honour to act. (Hear, hear.) We do not a ish
to deprive them of the great popularity which they
will obtain by fully enforcing the just nehte of the crown
and the complete Independence of the church of these
realms, while, at the same time, carefully abet iining from
ins rfarhig with the civil rights of Moee who dies, nt from
that church. (Hear, hear.) But on the other hand, I warn
them that if they do not mean to act baldly and un-
cempromieingly with the whole else, far bitter would
it hive been if they had never attempted to le-
eielate at all upon it ' • far better would it have
lean if they had submitted to this last and crowning en-1
croschment far better would it have been if they had con-
tinued to confess that our blood has been too cold and tem-
p: rate, end that it was not to he stirred even by this indig-
nity. For far better would it be to do nothing than, with a
pretence ofrarength, to n,-knowledge the reality ofour
'f he nolsleked concluded by sestinas that it was not his
intention to lame my amendment °tithe add nas, but repeat-
ing sin earnest and an anxious hope that, et the proper
muson, the government would give evidence that they were
prepared to act in reference to the papal aggression in a
manner worthy of the weeniest.
The Duke of RICHMOND considered as the met impor-
tant portion of the addrees the resume ref err to the ad-
mitted agricultural di-trees. lie, for one, w... eet sur-
prised at the nault of the free trade measures, and at that
n salt being at lags° described by the ion ernment He had
never been able to understand, from the commencement,
how euy rational being could expect that the British farmer
would ever be able to compete with the foreigner; sand
he supposed that no one now would venture to main-
tain such a pooibilisy. They were told by the noble
lord who seconded the nib:kiss that the proppenty of the
commercial end manufacturing chows would very soon be
participated in by the agricultural classes. But he (the
Duke of Riehnsond) wooed to 'mow what, in the
mean time, was to berme of the tenant farmers of Eng-
land ? They were at the mama moment, heymil all
doubt. loyal ; hut he declared to heaven he would wonder
it they long continued to be en. (Laughter.) Free trade,
there was now no denying, had driven great numbers of
the heeled proprietary of the country to Kahle on the con-
tinent. Free trade, during the last year, had forced nearly
100,000 agricultural labourers to emigrate, hundreds of
these at the cost of the poor-rates. In short, by their recent
legislation. their lord-hips had done !lathing 11101 e nor
Ins than this, they had crippled the landed Mutest of
the country, and forced immense numbers of them to leave
entirely the occupition which their ancesters had purmwd
for centuries, and these persons were now seeking an other
countries the justice which had been denied to them in this.
lie would not move any amendment on the preeent occa-
sion. Ile had only to say a few words on the papal ques-
tion. lie felt entitled to c :preen his opinion on this point,
the rather that he had always been one of those who had
opposed the Catholic Emancipation Act. Dangerous as that
measure was, the legisleture would have it ; and now they
hail the effect of it. In fact, he had °berried that when
the two great parties agreed to set together thee- were in-
variably in the wrung. (Laughter.) It was so in 1829,
and was so again in 1848. (Laughter.) He was not at all
surprised at what the Bishop of Rome had dome. He saw
that the government patromatel the Roman catholic bishops
and clergy in Ireland. He bad found the House of Com-
mons always disposed to coneessios ; and the Bishop of
Rome had mask the mistake of supposing that the Ilowe
of Commons represented the people of England, which every
one in England knew was not the case. (Laughter.) Beelike
this, the Bishop of Rome had seen the House of Commons
attempting to introduce Jews into a Christian Parliament ;
and what could lie not infer from that ? Even a good
many of the right reverend bench hail nut hesitated to vote
fur the admission of Jew% (Laughter.) Who, alter that,l
the Pope naturally thought he could do what he liked.
(Great laughter.) There was no disputing that the letter
of the first minister to the bishop of Durham was re-gaoled
throughout the country as the letter of the whole cabinet.
Referring again to the passages in the address upon the
subject of agriculture! distrees, the noble duke said that it
was well known he expended as large sums a(
money as most men in improving the land In
his own county, and be would say for one
that if free trade continued, and prices remained at their '
present range, be would cease to spend a single shilling is
that manner. He, for hi. part, aid not see the wisdom of
sending good money sifts r bad.
The Earl of WINCRILSEA considered the stste of the
country as critical to on unexampled degree. The great
dnuster came from Rome. and wastlie necessary consequence
of the act of 18-, which he had all along foreseen. A
great struggle was at hand between British protestantism
and the reharbm of Rome, which might involve the nation
in civil war. Ile considered that the fearful struggle
to which he had made allusion was inevitable. He told
them that no measure would be successful unless it went to
control the Church of Rome to the utmost extent. Never.
thelen, the noble earl would give them the full enjoyment
of their religious principles. God forbid that he Should
ever attempt to interfere between a man and his Maker. but
if ever they permitted the establishment of the Popish
power in this country as it existed in Ireland, not many
years would elapse before it felt the xsine evil results.
(Hear, hear.) Ihe table earl concluded by stating in re-
ference to the question of agricultural distress that the num-
ber of unemployed labourer', in the county of Lincoln was,
at this moment, greater than had been known at any previ-
ous time within the memory of man. (Hear, hear.) Meek
as hod been said about the foreign trade, it was clear that
the home market was, after all, that upon which they must
chiefly depend; and if they brought the egricultural inter-
ests into a state of distress. they would won bring the coon.
try at large into alike condition. (Cheers.)
Lord CAMOYS observed that it was not his intention to
enter into all the details of the galena, but he shoal.' con-
fine himself entirely to one topic. He was a Roman catholic,
and his family hail been so fur many generations. He was
not ashamed to confess that he took a pride in belong-
ing to an ancient, and, however much the expression might
be' carped at, to an unchsngesble faith. At the same time.
however, he was an Englishman ; and the rights, and 'Met-
tles, and integrity of hi- country were as dew to him as to
any one of their lordships. He admitted the supremacy of the
Queen over the cetablished church to its Writ extent that the
mat orthodox churchman could desire. He owned al-o the
supremacy of the Pope user cardinals; but against the
exercise of his temporal authority in this country it was his
duty to protest. (Cheers.) He would go further, and say
that against any undue and unnecessary interference with
the consciences of Roman catholies on the part of the
Pope, it was also hie (the noble lord's) duty to protest
(Cheers.) He was anxious to take a fair and impartial view
of what in the establishment of the Roman catholic hierarchy
could deserve ant. emersion of censure. He confeued he- could
not make out the policy of the act. Whatever were the numbers
of the Roman catholic*, it was a protestant nation.
(Chien.) They were in the full enjoyment ef toleration.',
They had the benefit of equal lave ; and the catholic sad
the protestant could equally meet with impartial justice.
They were increasing in numbers; they were increamag•is
wealth—not largely but still increasing. They were building
new churches and chapels in various parts of the country (some
of them very beautiful ones, too) ; converts from all chews
(and some of very high rank), were joining the RAMO
catholic religion : and even some clergymen of the
established church bad done so • their con
sion not resulting from the pi;osalaa d lb.

pinta, but from *sir own studies, which led them
. to the conviction (whether rightly or wrongly It was not his
buinern to inquire) that such wria their duty. Then he
' (the noble lord) said that when all wax going on so well, it
was not merely an unwise policy, but it was a tailpablo
mistake in introduce into this country the Roman catholic
hierarchy. (Hear, hear.) It had no doubt been done in
ignorance of the religions feeling of this country. Whoever
had been at Rome, or had conversed with any person who
had been there, must know the extreme idea., about the
religious condition of this country. (Hear, hear.) It was
supposed there that because a few clergymen had
coned the Roman catholic church, that therefore half
England was ready to join it. (Hoar, hear.) They forgot
this important particular that whilst some clergymen of the
established church had joined, in no one instance had their
congregation followed them. (Cheers.) It was said that a
certain number of the established clergy, who were com-
monly called Puseyites, had been the cause of the introdue
tion Of the Roman catholic hierarchy. If by that it was
meant that they were directly the cause, he wu prepared to
deny the statement; but inasmuch as they were indirectly
the cause, it certainly might be attributed to them. (Hear.)
He did not blame so much the Pope for the ignorance
which he had displayed in this matter, for he had nct.sd
naturally enough ; but he (the noble lord) did say that
much responsibility till upon those who had misinformed
him as to the actual condition of England. They ought to
have known that this was a protestant, an essentially pro-
testant, country; old that, with the eiception of the
Roman catholic', the nation was universally protest-
ant. (Loud cheers.) With regard to the question
of prerogativt—if they compared the titles of honour con.
leered by the Queen in this country with the titles given by
the Pope, one gave legal precedence and legal rights, but
the other conferred none. If he (the noble lord) went into
the street and called the tint person he met the Archbishop
of Westminster, he would be, in the eyes of the law. just as
much the Archbishop of Westminsteras Cardinal Wiseman.
(Hear, hear.) They had appointed a new Bishop of Man-
chester doubtless for some very good reason; and if they
wanted a new Bishop of Birmingham he (the noble lord)
would like to know what there would be to prevent it ?
If that were done, and the person who hail been appointed
Bishop of Birmingham still continued to hold the title, he
would be liable to the penalty of 100/. In the celebrated'
letter of Lord John Russell, mention was made of the
"mummeries of superstition" practised by the Roman
catholics. Ile (Lord Camoye) confessed himself insulted
by that remark; but he could not look upon that letter (as
it had been called by a noble lord), as the letter
of the cabinet, much less of the country ; he slid
not (though their Lordships might look on the
distinction as rather too finely drawn), look on it
even as the act of the Prime 31inister; but solely u a letter
of Lord John Russell, in his prisate capacity. 'f he Roman
catholic' were a said majunty in Ireland; and formed a
third of the inhabitants of the whole country. They were
also related to some of the oldest families in their lordships'
house; they were representatives in the other house, and
they were even in places near the throne. He could not
therefore, bring himself to think that Lord John meant to
insult them. Moreover, in France, Spain, Austria, and other
countries on the continent, the rulers were Romancatholics.
and Lord John Russell could hardly have intended
to insult them, with whom her Majesty had congratulated
the house that she was on terms of amity. (Hear, hear.)
He (Lord Carney.) admitted that Lord dihn Russell hail a
right to feel excessively annoyed; but that did not amount
to a jtet:hilltion of his letter. The noble lord concluded
by thanking their lordships for their patient attention.

The Maintain of LANSDOWNE said—The noble lord
behind me has delivered his sentiments in a manner which
all your lordship. must hove felt indicated a degree of good
judgment, of candour, and of manliness upon his part
(hear, hear), which reflects on hint the highest diutentr.
(Hear, hear.) I hare, and must have the mates* satisfac-
tion when; I refs to thoae Pestinient4 (tow* si they do
from a ration connected by hereditary tfee,- fbe centimes
past, with the Roman catholic body Of. England, and ex-
presaing as they do the result of his own observation and
knowledge of this country. (Hear, hear.) Such senti-
ments 1 ant juatifit d in observing outweigh a hun-
dred fold those sentiments and those proceeding., which
I believe it can be proved have originated in the most
profound ignoranee of the state of the history and of the
present condition of this country. (blear, hear.) With
regard to the topics adverted to in the course Of this debate,
it would ba quite unjustifiable in me to detain your lord-
ships by fltrinß into them in detail. I shall refer
to two or three points to widish the noble lord (Lord
St inky) snore especially adverted. The foremost in point
of onle r was the foreign policy of this country. To
that he had nothing to object, except that the
government betrayed somewhat of innifferenee to
the affairs of foreign countries, and did not take
those active measures of interference which in some
quarters were deemed essential. I can refer von to the
transact:on. which have littelyttiaen plate in Oe:rmany—tee
the difficult negotiations intanded to have eettleda queritimie
of right—a question whit le wee romplicettati loynther
floats of policy throughout the Bohn* ring/U*4 pat.
tented time at one every sort of difficulty; you
to these, I ask if the poliey of this eountry has been at all
indifferent in its character On the contrary, although it
did not become this country—which was not directly in-
tercated—to brims itself forward as a principal in a contest
in which it had no legitimate share except from a regard to
the general iutirests of Europe, it did interfere : and I am
quite warranted in saying that, during the whole of these
transactions. there was not an instance in which the intar-
rence of this country- was not beneficially employed, and
was not acknowledged in a promr manner by every one
of the states brought into conflict rind opposition.
(Hear, hear.) The noble lord afterwards referred
to the state of distress in this country, under the in-
tim nee of what is called for trade. 'I am not pre-
pared to rides the general question now. I shall take the
opportunity at the proper time of pronouncing nty opinions
uu the subject. lit the meantime, however, I deny the
proposition which he has !nisi down, for althoueh it he ad-
mitted tl,et considerable distress, exits amongst particular
claws of the community, it is not for one moment to be
allowed that the hulk of the population is affect, ii by that
(Lintel.; or even that the whole of the population in agri-
cultural counties (hear, hear) are in a state of distress.
for a considerable proportion of the agrteultural counties
enjoy ge nerd prosperity. It is impossible if distress were
universal amens( them, that there would be those
unmistakeable signs, those unequivocal proofs of prosperity
which are certainly visible. We have seen an in-
creasing consumption, which nothing hut the welfare of
of the great masts of the country could produce. That
consumption has been going on froth year to year, not by
starts, nor suddenly, nor accidentally, hut with a slow and
measured pare, affording ground for the must perfect
security that consuraptien would go on increas-
ing, and justifying the policy of her Majesty's
in recommending pnrhatnent, year after rear, to take
off great and productive taxes. The effect of the remission
of these taxis% in stimulating consumption only serves, the
better to show the soundness of the financial system
lof this country . • (hear, hear) for, notwithstanding the
abolition of the head tax, the revenue has loam buoyant.
and has risen beyond the necessities of the state, thereby
enabling the country not only to dispense with a
portion of taxation in the past, lint which holds out
the prospect of sonic still further reduction in taxation.
(Hear, he ar.) I wish to ask the noble lord, when he pointa
to the supplies derived by this roantry from France, whe-
ther he thinks the amount of agricultural distress now ex-
isting there, and bearing down that country to a much
greater degree titan this country (hear, hear) ; because the
agricultural population in Franey is much greater in propor-
tion than it is in this country—l ask the noble lord whether
he is prepared to attribute the agricultural deprePaion in
France to the want of a system of protection. (Hear, hear.)
In that country free trade has beet proscribed from year to
year, under different governments.—monarchies and repuls-
lies —and yet the agricultural produce of France hate been
gradually falling. (Hear, hear.) The state of France, the
prices of its product., du not afford any argument in favour
of protection; fur in thin country, at this very mo-
ment, article., of agricultural pioduce command a
much better price. (Hear hear.) As regards the
question of papal agression, whatever variety of sentimant
may have arisen in the comae of this debate on this subject,
I rejoice to find that there has not been a sentiment uttered
—not even by the noble earl opponite--there has nut been
a sentiment uttered against the fullest toleration. Tokra-
tion has been extended, and, I tru,t, will always be ex-
tended to the Roman catholic body and every other re-
Laious community in the country. Civil privllegea have
been granted to the Roman catholivs, anti God forbid that
under the presence of any circumstances, however just, we
should think of retracing our step., and going hark to a
svntem of what I must call practical persecution. (Hear,
liter.) I entirely differ from the noble earl in considering
that catholic emancipation is in any degree to be Made re-
eponsihle for the re sent usurpation on the part of the
Pope, which has aroused throughout the country such a
feeling of indignation. (Hear, hear.) Had the Catholic
Emancipation Act not been passed there would have been
affonled the same facility—nay, a great deal more facility
fur the perpetration of such a usurpation, fur then we
would have been on a foundation of injustice while we
resisted this attempt on the honour of the crown and the
feelings of the subject. (Hear.) My lord., that act has been
characterised and ju.tly characterised as an act of usurpation.
With respect to the arrangements for effecting an improve-
ment in the administration of the law, I may remark that
they are surrounded with difficulty. although this is the
most important of all practical legislation. It is intended
to provide that security which the noble lord desiderateP,
although it is no easy matter to proceed where iso many in-
terests are implicated. It is, however, expected that means
will be found of effecting a great diminution in
the expense of the law, while, at the same time,
greater security may be given to the holders of pro-
pertr by an improvement in the registration of deeds
and instruments relating to the transfer of property." All
these meaPures will be formally and delibeffitely cciaddered
by this bowie, and will doubtless secure that attention which
their great importance merits. (Hear, hear.)
Lord RODEN Was dierippointed at not finding in the
royal speech a promise to maintain the protestant principles
of constitution. He hoped that the measure to be in-
troduced would prove eretisfactory on that point, and ad-
duced some new proofs of the intrusive and ambitious cha-
mese' of the papal authority.
The LORD CHANCELLOR then put the address to
the vote, when it was unanimously carried.
RESIGNATION 01' LORD SHAFTESBURY AS
CHAIRMAN 9F COMMITTEE'S.

Lord REDESDALE returned thanks for his selection to
succeed the Earl of Shaftesbury, u chairman of the com-
mittees in their lordships' house.
A brief conversation ensued. in which Lord Stanley, the
Duke of Wsllininon. Lord Harrosrhy. and the Dtike of
Richmond paned kith euloOtims upon the conduct of the
n thle earl while exeeuting the onerons duties of that office,
and stated their confidence as In the fitness of his successor.

The Duke of RICHMOND presented petitions front se-
veral places in SUWX agaio.t papal acraTesiian.
Their lordships than adjourned at it quarter past nir.e
o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-7-TuE4otv, FEE 4.

The SPEAIMa took the chair at half-past one o'doelt, the
attendance of hon. members being at that time rather thin.
However, the number momentarily incre.tved, up to a
quarter past two o'clock, at which hour there could not
have been less than 100 hon. members present. At twenty
minutes past two o'clock precisely, Mr. Putman, Yeoman
Usher of the Black Rod, appeared at the table of the
house, and, in her Majesty's name, summoned the hove to
I the bar of the House of Lards to hear the royal speech.
On the return of the Speaker, the house (at half-past two)
rn adjoued to a quarter 'before four o'clock.
The house re-assembled ate quarter before four o'clock.