The Express.
London, England, 1847-04-23 00:00:00

February, which gave no room to anticipate any anch
exclusion. The speech of the noble lord, on Monday but,
explained how this exclusion had originated, showing that
the entirely novel interpretation of the minutes of the coun-
sit, in pursuance of which Roman catholic schools were to
be excluded, was owing entirely to the concessions which
government had thought proper to make to the Wesleyan
body—concessions, be it borne in mind, which, while they
precluded Roman catholic' from the benefit" of those schools
maintained by public bounty, and consequeetly by the contri-
butions partly of the Roman catholics the.meelves, insisting
upon the perusal in them of the whole scripture, according to
the authorised version, still permitted to the British sod
Foreign Society to use portions only of the scripture—the
rule, now to be rigorously applied to the Roma% catholics,
requiring the perusal of the whole scripture, according to the
authorised version. The only comment upon this would be
to read a resolution agreed to yesterday at a meeting of
Roman catholic* assembled on the subject, and which de-
clared that the meeting, deeply impressed at the outrage
offered to the rights of conscience by the declaration mute
by the government that catholics wore to he excluded from
a participation in the grant to be voted by parliament for all
other religious communities, called upon all classes of cache-
' lin to unite in one cry of indignant reprobation at the insult-
ing exceptiun from a public grant made from a public fund.
The lion. baronet concluded with aunouricing his intention,
on a future day, to move that any minutes of the committee
of the privy eau flea, or any other regulation excluding Roman
cetholies from a participation in any grant of public money
for the purposes of education, be rescinded.
Viscount el AIION said it was quite clear that things
could not remain in their present condition, as regarded the
education of the pez.ple. Under all circumstanese, ho
thought the plan of the government the least objectionable
that could be suggested, ace therefore he was prepared to
give it his hearty support.
Sir J. OR.IHANI—Sir, I am always most unwilling to
occupy the time and attention of the house, hut m I conclude
that the hon. member for Finsbury intends to press his
motion to a division, I cannot reconcile it to my sense of
public duty to give a silent vote 02 the present occasion.
hear) The motion made by the noble lord at the
head of the government is, that the house resolve itself into
a committee of supply for the purpose of glancing a vote of
103,0001. of the public money in aid of education throughout
Greet Drititin. The amendment of the hon. member for
Finsbury is that a select committee be appointed for the pur-
pose of inquiry. Now it appears to me, with reference to
this =hint, that inquiry is altogether superfloous. (Hear.
hear.) The facts era notorious. The inadequacy of the means
e.f education, in England at least, is admitted on all
hands, and if, as has been implied, this motion is
made for the purpose of implying a censure on the govern-
ment, although 1 am not prepared to say that come errors
have not been committed, yet I think it would be unjust in
the extreme to mark with severity any attempt made in so
useful a direction. On the contrary, so well aware ant I of
he extreme difficulty that surrounds the subject, that I
think it my bounden duty to meet it with anything but
.everity, and rather to lend my aid to rectify cenisuons than
to exercise my ingenuity in finding matter for censure.
(Hear, hear.) It is in this spirit that I shall direct my
attention to the motion before the house. (Cheers.) On
the very threshold the abstract proposition presents itself, is
it, or is it not, the duty of the state to interfero with the edu-
cation of the people? 1 cannot hesitate in discussing this
abstract question to come to the conclusion that it is not only
among the highest duties, but among the noblest—if it be
not indeed the noblest—functions of a government to do
everything in its power to extend the knowledge, to elevate
the m wale, and to cultivate end cherish the religious feelings
of the people entrusted to its care. (Cheers.) And in a
Christian assembly I cannot hesitate further to say that my
own conviction is, that the noblest system of education ever
presented to man is the spite of morality which has re-
ceived the divine sanction, and which holds out to humanity
the highest hope of future rewards, and the greatest terror
of future putusloments. (Hear, hear.) This view would
lead me to an important quettion on which I
do not intend to enter—although I should be prepared to
justify it—l mean the alliance of the state with the religion
of tho majority, in other words, the connexion between
church and state. I leave that, and turn to the real and
pracical question. If it be admitted, as I think it generally
has been, that in the abstract, it is the duty of the govern-
ment to promote the education of the people, the real ques-
tion for our consideration is, how shall that duty be
performed ? Now, as is the cave with almost every
question of policy, the practical question must have
reference to the varying circumstances or the
United Kineilern. Reference has been made to Scotlend in
a most pointed and able mintier by the right hon. gentatnan
who represents the metropolis of that country and, sir, in
reference to Scotland, at an early period of its history, when
one form of religion was cordially embraced by its entire
people, their legislation was in direct coincidence with pub-
lic feeling, education was allied to the church, and there was
no difficulty whatever about the matter. (Hear, hear )
When the preshy terian religion was established, first
under JlllllOl, rind eubsequent/y at the revolution,
under William 111.. together with the establishment of the
church, education was allied with that church, and formed
part of the parochial system which received first the sanction
of the Scottish parliament, and sueseqeently that of the pan
liament of the United Kingdom. There the education of
the people is alliance with tie church was the particular care
of the state, until those unhappy disputes which day by day
deplore. There was until then such a coincidence that reli-
gious feeling and secular education went hand in hand ; and if I
were to mention the diatinguishing feature of Scotland, that
which forms the brightest page in her history, it would be
that union which, in spite of the difficulties which poverty
and various circumstances have created, has raised her to a
level with the highest among the civilised nations of the
world. (Hear, hear.) So much fur Scotland. In Ireland
the circumstances were exactly different. There the religion
of the state was that of a small minority, while dissent from
that religion was the distinguishing feature of the great
majority of the people. There legislation was not indeed
attempted, hut this united parliament, year by year, granted
considerable sums of the public money in aid of a system of
education not in alliance with the church, but, on the con-
trary, I am sorry to say, viewed with an evil eye by the
established church in that country. It was, however, a sys-
tem to which the great body of dissenters had free admission,
and is which at the same time churchmen might also freely
participate. (Cheers.) I have shown„ then, that the views of
ppaan liament have varied with Unvarying circumstances of the
United Kingdom, and adapted themselves to the condition
of the people. Here, in this country, from a very early
period, unhappily down to the latest moment, the greatest
possible difference of opinion on the subject of religion has
prevailed, and all claws of the community have been
bitterly divided on the question of religious education. That
difference of opinion has constituted the real difficulty with
respect to the education of the people. (Hear, hear.) The
etate has never interfered is England to a great extent in the
matter of education. It has been left to the voluntary
efforts of the established church, and to the different die
tenting sects. Now, lam bound to say, that in my own
person I have had 601110 experience with reference to rs'<
tempts on the part of ministers of the crown to interfere
more actively. (Hear, hear.) I may not have been
able to render as much aid to the cause of educa-
tion as my zeal would lead mo to desire, but I
have done this, I have sounded the depths and difficulties of
the subject, I have tried the channel and marked the rocks
and shoals to he avoided by future governments, and thus
made their path easy, whenever they might wish to promote
the cause of education; and, with all my experience, I am
bound to say that I do not think the question of national
education in England is as yet ripe for legislation. (Hear.)
I think it imperatively necessary that the course hitherto
pursued should be persevered io, and that an annual vote
should be, brought under the consideration of parliament, so
that the 'question should continue open for discussion. I
should be unwilling to weary the house, but I wish to point
out how cautious its steps bare been in the assistance given
to education. I think it was Lord Grey who at first
asked fora small sum to assist in the building of schools;
when twenty or thirty thousand pounds were placed at the
disposal of the treasury. Subsequently that sem was aug-
mented, but the distribution was placed at the disposal of a
committee of the privy council. Of course the differences of
opinion on the subject of religion to which I have adverted
rendered any interference as to the quality of education par-
ticularly difficult. This was avoided by confining the
assistance to building the fabric of the schools, and with a
view to getting rid olthe discussion of different creeds, con-
nexion was confined by the state to two institutions main-
tained by voluntary contributions—one. the National Society
in connexion with the established church; the other, the
British and Foreign Society, which, although supported by
many churchmen, had also the confidence of a large
portion of the dissenting body. Until a compa-
ratively recent period-1839—n0 assistance was given
except to the building of schools, and the further
restriction was observed that the school to be built should
belong to one of the two societies. The first relaxation of
this rule, and it was a partial and guarded one, took place
when Lord Melbourne was at the had of the government in
1839. The order in council of that year, as a general rule,
still maintained it indispensable that the school to be assisted
should belong to one of the two societies, but there was a
relaxation with reference to special cases, which were to be
considered apart from the society's, to be found in the order
of 1839. I am not aware that the government
of Lord Melbourne, after passing the order of 1839,
ever gave any amistance, except towards building
the fabric, nor am I aware that they ever entertained more
than one or two special cases, even taking care that the con-
ditions they bad themselves prescribed were observed. To
one of those special cases it will be my duty before I sit
down more particularly to advert. My right hon. friend on
the bench below me came into office in 1811, and my bite
noble friend, Lord Wbarncliffe, was at the head of the
council. In concert with my right hon. friead he proceeded
to carry into execution the order in council as amended in
1839. It will be observed that up to this time no public
money had ever been granted, except as a principal sum,
no annual income was pledged in aid of the building. I
think that for the first time some assistance was given in
1842 to two normal schools—one in connexion with the
National Society, to which 5,0001. was given, and the other
belonging to the British and Foreign ociety, which
was assisted with a similar sum. In Scotland,
also, for the first time, 10,00 W. was given out of the
vote of the year, for the purpose of founding two nor-
: mill schools in aid of the parochial system in that country in
connexion with the established church—one at Glasgow, the
other at Edinburgh. Up to 1843, no annual sum was
, pledged prospectively by government in aid of education ;
but in that year government informed parliament of the
progressive steps which were taking, and, for the first time,
they consented to pledge the faith of the state to the grant
I of annuities in favour of education. To the National Society
, 1,0001. was granted for their normal schools ;to the British and
Foreign School Society, 750 e ' • and I think a promise was made
elan annual contribution to the normal schools in Scotland.
i After this departure from the rigour of the original rule,
• applications were premed upon the council for further mist-
, ance, by annual contributions in aid of deficiencies, and in