The Express.
London, England, 1853-03-04 00:00:00

REGIISTRATION OF DEEDS BILL.

The LORD CHANCELLOR rose to move the second
reading of this bid ; and in doing so, he felt that be had a
difficult MA imreedlipon him, for he was obliged to ask
their lordship.' attention to a measure involving questions
of detail, and in its nature not 'err interesting. It such an
apology was mispleco.l in any deliberative body, he thought
it must be there, for unless he deceived himself, important
a. the subject was to all clisses of her Majesty's subjects,
there was nodose so deeply interested in the success of
this measure as then tended interests of the country. The
offcet of it would be, as had been stated by a great autho-
rity two centuries ago, to add materially to the value of
laud, the amount et rent, and the easy transfer of property.
Such ass the opinion of Sir Matthew Ilale. After paying
fur the purchase of same land, he said he would gladly give
another y. ar's perchers' if the vendor could secure hire an
absolute title. This bill proposed to put an end to the un-
certainty of titles He knew it had been said that the
measure did not go nearly far enough ; and he had no
doubt that g facilities might he given for the transfer
of property than the hill proposed, hut he introduced the
measure, not because it would effect all that the public very
properly wished to have accomplished, but because he
believed it to be the most sure and sale foundation on
which future Legislation on the subject could rest. Still
less did he say that it proposed any change in the mode in
which property was now enjoyed; it would still be subject
to be leased, mortgaged, settled, and entailed, just the same
u bef ire, should this bill become law, the sole objtet of the
bill being to render it possible to have • perfectly secure
title. (Heir, hear.) Land was • subject matter with
which they coull not deal, as with common chattels. If
he wanted so sell his watch or his horse, nobody would ask
him for a title, the possession itself being c 'moldered suffi-
cient ; but that was not so with reference to land ; the pos-
session of land did not prove to whom it belonged. A party
might be in possession (Aland, because he held it for six
months—or had obtained a lease of it for 21 years—or was
the mortgae,ee in possession or the tenant for life. In
order to enable • man to sell his land, he must prove that
be had the means of transferring it, and making out a title
to it. He might be an owner in fee simple, or bold only a
limited interest. There might be a settlement on his mar-
rise, and various inquiries would have to be made running
through *great length of time. It might be • question
whether he had mortgaged it ; and there might be
many cases where a mortgage might exist, although the
mortgagee had not a valql title. The present state of the
law must neormarily cast on the vendor the necessity of
proving a negative. He did not mean to suggest
that twee of actual fraud, by which parties
lest their estates, were matters of frequent err
currency. and he did not believe they were, because at
the time of the purchase almost endless inquiries were
made, not only as to the title deeds, but as to all possible
transactions an.l contingencies that might be behind and'
concealed, the disclosure of which might afterwards de-1
feat the title of the purchaser. That he believed to he the
real evil which this hill woe calculated to meet. (Hear.)
He would now consider the objections to the bill. The
Ant, and he believed the greatest, was that it was opposed
by his noble and learned friend (Lord St. Leonardo). But
great as was the learning and experience of his noble and
horned friend, he hardly thought it was a sufficient reason
to make their lordships forego a measure which had already
received the sanction of that house and the approbation of
some of the highest legal opinions is the country. His
noble sod learned friend said that the subject was so large
that they could not manage it—that it would require an
enormous building and an enormous staff of officers, and
that it would expose the title-deeds or the copies of them to
peat risk. There was a practical testimony given on
this point by. Mr. Trevor, the Controller of the
Legacy Duty in Somerset House. He bad a registra-
tion of all the wills in the kingdom, to the amount
of about 30,000, which were kept in the garrets of Somerset
House, and he stated that be had not the least difficulty in
lading any one of them. Besides this, be had over 20,000
wills abstracted, which was • work requiring some thought
and attention ; and all this he did with a staff of 70 clerks.
He did not see why there should be greater difficulty in
having • registration of deeds, properly indexed
and capable of easy reference. The want of •
proper index was felt to be a great inconvenience
in Ireland. The present bill included • system of
indexing which gave great facilities for investigation.
It was said that the :registration of deeds would lead
to an exposure of family transactions. He hardly thought
this was an objection at all. bed te meal the views of those
who thought it was an objeedsa, a mods was provided is
the bill which would enable mimes to keep their secrets
from everybody, just in the sets way as persons who bad
stock in the funds were enabled to do so. A person trans-
ferred stock in the name of one or two trustees
who stood between him and the public, and in the same
way a man might transfer his had. To be sure, as in the
ease of stock, them was the dosser of the trustee selling it ;
but if there was any saspision of that kind, he could be
stopped f. om so doing by adidriges or an inhibition. It was
net intended to permit any aids, of this measure, beaus,
if notice were allowed It would ors op all the difficulties
which registration was latended Is perMA against. (Hear.)
He believed that if parties did sat with Is have • mortgage
or ectliesnent known—if a perm, tsr fardosee, wished to
bestow • Aw Jimmie, and sold to tie party from whom
he was raise w monly, "I don't like to have this
kneel; dsn'trigistor the transadiss." that it would sot
be densoltlasst. whom the parties wee known to and had
emiliesco Is sash other. This would also diminish the
number of deeds. With regard is the esepesee if Mr.
Frees wee ell*, the espy et a deed of two skins tionkt be
oaly • few imp, sad prebabisis meromgemont scald
be made for transmitting them- the poet. TM first
expense would probably ben bat that would be
covered by 4a. sa 100,000 EMIL 411. woods* ammo of
the deeds, bat la sassy oases Shay maid he oisishood for dd.
It was said by ism of the 'womb of the mann that
the colludes efts& is Landes maid probably, in times
et revolution, hubs tie Ant blew, mod would also expose
them to great frisk pees as. If them woos all Oa difficul-
ties which the apparels olds maws, mall sweat, he
did not think theism:leery mime lammeralds. In ease of
an ebullition of tumult or sivil war the 21 millions
of sovereigns in Bask of Ilanisad maid :far outweigh
is eMas all the papers or poreboisais la the registry
offiss (Saar, hear.) He soseluisd awn the second
alba bill.
Iwr(ST. LHONARD'S dammed Os bill as a =le-
gible= didmisa. The very fact that a iissoral register of
beds bed bass so dedried by] tech ondsoni persons was
a mad of him TM Sae= Mid not be
oasis/ sea si lamps moo mu* whisk would
cost 1.010,00fi1. or sal that Os Isms of a
Isomers meld maks te be rosmard; siblis the general
assumes of the slim meld Mat Snit a man a year. It
meld sot in the beast odd to the 'soft posparty, but
would as tie Mintsmy render many tides.= Meld not now
be isigugssi mandess. The evils spied whisk it was
intesdei to ;mud were of extreme rarity, whims thosots
which it would give rise would be numerous mad of great
gravity. The idea of its shortening abatrastsasibsaveyaneas,
or of facilitating the treader of load, was Slikaisus. The
only way in which that could be edMd would bo to im-
prove the low of property,. in which dimities im.sose pro-
green had been mad' within ate last few years. Indeed the
strictly legal expenses of conveyancing were already very
moderate. Fifteen estates had been bought for a million
pounds, and the whole of the es , exclusive of ad es
Jaren stamps, had only been 3, .
Lord CAMPBELL defended the bill, and mousestod
upon the feet that his noble and learned friend had once
viewed all the measures recommended by the preputy lead
commissions with alarm, though he had spe ea is their
f poe that occasion. He was in hopes of • similar
commission with regard to the registration of deeds.
After a short conversation, the bill wee read a asceond
time, and their lordships adjourned.
Lord BEAU MON T was convinced that the bill, as it stood,
was a great improvement, but there were some alight altera-
tions which he should wish to see made iammunialso.Contrall-
satins had bees objected to ; but he was psoomiol that the
lost plan would be to have a *undoes* is Luis& Great
objection to this would be nude is some pesos (liftman-
try, particaluly in his musty ?akshkm
0111Lpirliaps
something might be done to the 4441
Lord ST. LEONARD'S was asmisniesd be Whist* that
he should not divide against the second reading anise bill.
Lord BROUGHAM said be approved of the principle of
the bill, and was authorised to say that his noble friend, Lord
Lyndhurst, who had just left the house, did the same. Hs
fr=t it was impossible to throw it out on the woad
After • few words from the LORD CHANCILLOI and
Lord Sr. LIONALD'II, in explanation, the bill was read a
mood time.
Lord CLANCARTT postponed his motion on national
education is Ireland until Monday.
Their lordships adjourned at half-pest 10 Vora.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TurasDAT, MAsen 3.
The Braaxaz took the chair at the usual hour.
NEW MEMBER.
Visdrciat EKLY wok the oath, and hia Nit for Worcester-
ebbe.

PUBLIC BUSINESS.

PETITIONS PRESENTED.
ADNISOION or iIWI TO PAILLIAIIINT.—My MT.
BUCK, hem Didford and Stockbridge ; Mr. TOLLE-
MACHE, from Morley and Woodcburch, is the county
N Chester ; Mr. DAMES, from the district of Comas-
man, in Carmartbenshire ; Mr. HORSEALL, from the
inhabitants of Brairlsford, in the cou of Derby; Mr.
SPOONER, frees Babel', county of Warwick; Mr. AD-
DERLEY, from Sudbury, Staffordshire; Mr. K. KING,
from the parishes of Canon Yroome, Dyoedor and Mordi-
ford, is the county of Hereford; Colonel NORTH, from
the perish of Chaetleton, county of Oxford; Mx. CHILD,

from St. Thomas's parish Meweop, in the county of Staf-
ford, end from the parish of Chiddleton, county of Stafford ;
against.
Horiss-Racrgo.—By Mr. WILLIAMS, from Belfast,
ageism granting public money for horse-racing.
PARLI AAA NAA RI PAPAS.—By Lord HOTHAM, from
Humanly, East Riding of Yorkshire, praying for •
supply of.
OPINING THS CRYSTAL PALACR ON SUNDAYS: By
Mr. K INN AIRD, from the ministers and congregation of
the church of St. Alban, Liverpool; Mr. ALCOCK, front
Hiuto• Mortal, Dorset, and St. Junes, Clapham; Mr.
SPOONER, from workmen, St. Clement's parish, Worcts-
shire Mr. FEROUSON, from 767 working men of the
city of Carlisle, egainyt.
Tux OPTICS or EXAMINIR IN CRANCERT.—By Mr.
BAINES, from Leeds, praying that solicitors may be
eligible for.
IlarNoocir.—By Mr. TOLLEMACHE, front the mem-
bers of Trinity, Birkenhead, against any grant to the
College or Maymooth.
COUNTY Retyn.—By Mr. H. RUSSELL, from 2,364
ratepayers of the county of Bedford, praying for control
over.

THE BOSTON ELECTION PETITION.
The SPEAKER informed the house that he had re-
ceived a letter from the agents of the petitioners, stating
that it was not intended to proceed with the petition against
the return of Mr. B. B. Cabbell, member for Boston.
WIOTOWN BURGHS ELECTION PETITION.
Sir J. TROLLOPE informed the house that Lord C. P.
Clinton, who had been appointed to serve on the select
committee on this petition, was unable to attend in conse-
quence of ill health. Lord Clinton's medical attendant was
then called to the bar, and stated in reply to questions from
the Speaker, that his lordship had a bronehital affection,
which rendered it unsafe for him to attend the committee.
NOTICES OF MOTIONS.
DERBY ELECTION COMMITTEE.
The members rat this committee were called to the table
and sworn ; and the committee was appointed to sit at 11
o'clock this daTILE WATER COMPANIES.
Lord R. GROSVENOR gave notice that on Monday nest
he would ask the Chief Commissioner of Woods and Forests
what course the government meant to pursue with respect
to the water hills introduced in the present session.
THE SIXMILE-BRIDGE AFFAIR.
Mr. NAPIER gave notice that on Thursday, the 17th
inst., he would move for the production of the papers wo-
w eted with this subject, and that it was his intention on
the same occasion to take a discussion on the proceedings
of the present and of the late government in relation
thereto.
THE PUBLIC REVENUE.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS gave notice that on that day fort •
night he would move a resolution declaring that the whole
of the public money now received by the revenue depart-
ment should be paid into the Eschequer.
CONVOCATION.
Sir J. PAKINOTON said he now rose to put to the
noble lord (Lord J. Russell) the three question of which he
had given him novice; and, is doing so, he disclaimed the
slightest feeling of direspeet, or of anything approaching to
disrespect, towards the distinguished prelates to whom his
luestions referred ; and he aloe disclaimed the least inten-
tion to prejudge in any way the important question whe-
ther or not it was desirable for the interests of the church
that the powers of convocation should be enlarged, or that
its constitution should be remodelled. He wished to ask
the noble lord, Snit, whether the attention of the govern-
ment had been called to the proceedings of the Upper
House of Convocation on the 16th of the last month, which
were of a very unusual character, and the legality of which
was strongly disputed by 'tome of the prelates who were
present ; secondly, whether in appointing a committee to
transact business between the sittings of convocation, and to
report in August next, the Upper House had actea legally,
and whether the committee itself could legally discharge
the functions intrusted to it; and lastly, whether it was
the intention of the government to take any steps in the
matter ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said—The hon. gentleman had the
goodness to postpone the question to this day, and I am
now obliged to ark him again to postpone it. At present I
have only to say that the attention of her Majesty's go-
vernment has been directed to this question, that the law
°dicers of the crown have been questioned as ts the legal
powers of convocation, and the appointment of a committee
to sit after the 16:h of February, but that at prevent the
law officers, though they have been in consultation, have
sot made any formal report. I must, therefore, defer an-
swering the question until to-morrow.

THE COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS.
Mr. BAILLIE wished to ask the noble lord the ques-
tion of which he had given notice. The noble lord was
probably aware that the committee then sitting on Indian
affairs would not he able to present its report before
August; and he wished to ask him whether it was the
intention of her Majesty's ministers to legislate for the
permanent government of India during the present session,
end if so whether he was able to state when a bill for that
purpose would be laid on the table.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was the intention of the go-
vernment to introduce a bill in the course of the present
session for the government of India—he could not say for
its permanent government, but it would be for a period
named. He was not in a position to state when the bill
would be introduced, but due notice would be given.
Mr. HUME said several heads of subjects were referred
to the committee, and he would like to know whether the
government meant to delay bringing in the bill until the
inquiry had been completed with regard to all.
Lori J. RUSSELL could only repeat what he had already
stated, namely, that it was the intention of the government
to introduce a bill in the mars* of the present session.

asked is a proper tone, they would, no doubt, have been at
saes SW were& but the truth was, that the notion of inva-
des bg the Turks of the Austrian territory was simply ridi-
=ird could as ver have been serious' entertain -Qh/ thy
toverttateat. The Monte ware • Wee,
preislhey people, of whose prowess Turks were well
weree aad that was probably the must why the Sultan %ad
seat a powerful army ia the fleet instance, in order that
1 the war might be brought is • speedy conclusion. The
Sultan was quite juatMed in doing so. Montenegro was •
Turkish province, and Austria ,could not pretend that it
was an independent state. But even if it were, Austria was
not the country to battle for the independence of other
states. Anstris, that had called Italy • geographical expres-
sion, and had annexed the free republic of Cracow to its own
dominions. And whom bed Austria sent to interfere for
the independence of Montenegro ? As if to tutu the matter
into a burlesque, the ambassador selected was no other than
Count Leiningen, the military go eeeee tof Cracow. As to
the removal of Hungarian refugees, these men bad most
probably embraced the Mussulman faith. and thus bad ac-
quired the rights and privileges of the Turks. The Sultan
must therefore protect them, but might remove them from
the army in Montenegro to conciliate a neighbouring state,
• - would }

and no-doubt the demand, if properly made, have
been met with attention. Austria made another demand,
namely, to be the protector of all the Roman
catholic* in Turkey. To this, Turkey might an-
swer that these people wanted no protection. They had
full permission, he would not say to read their Bibles, for
they did not want to do so, but to have mass solemnised,
and to have their processions, even in the streets of Con-
stantinople. The fact was, hat the Turkish government
was the most tolerant in the world, and had permitted the
installation of a protestant bishop in Jerusalen. He wished
that protistants, catholic*, and Greeks, could be brought to
act towards one another as the Turks acted towards all
Christians. (Hear, hear.) It might be said they were
tolerant now because they were weak ; but not so. When
they took Constantieople they did not expel the con-
quered rate as eatholics did in Spin; and when
they took Jerusalem their first act was to protect the holy
sepulchre, round which the most disgraceful battles took
place constantly between different sects of Christians. New
they were harassed by the meet intolerant power in Europa I
—Austria, who had put thousands to death on religious'
pounds in the different countries subject to her rule. Hie•
tory told how she acted in the Low Countries and Bohemia.
That protestantism was not exterminated in Hungary they
might thank the Turks, who, during the 160 years they
ruled in that country, allowed protestants the free exercis
of their religion. But no one supposed that these pretences
had any sincerity in them—some hidden motive was
urging Austria onward in her tyrannical and impolitic
miner. It was not many years since Austria had
demanded the Hungarian refugees from the Turks—the
refugees who fled from Hungary —in order that
she might slake bee vengsaises on them, and Turkey
bark. sesiMall *me demeeds, the present vindic-
degrees war es 4ist emeent. Turkey had not coin-
ed when Austrian armies marched over her
terr Tory, pursued by the brave old Beni. He wanted
W kaow, and for that reason had made the pre-
matthelion, how the government of this country looked at
Oboes fetters? He hoped the house would hear some ex-
patiations on these matters, because these were not days
when secret diplomacy could be expected to give
satisfaction. Let the world know whether England
held the same *pinion as formerly. respecting
the necessity of upholding Turkish independence.
He believed that we were bound to adhere to our ancient
policy by treaties, by honour, and by policy. If we did
not uphold that independence some great power would get
possession, and then the equilibrium of Europe would be
destroyed. If Austria and Russia got possession of Turkey,
between them where would be religious toleration? Then,
Inking at the question in a commercial point' of view,
It was of the utmost importance to the trade of this coun-
cils maintain the authority of the Sultan. Our com-
merce with Turkey had quadrupled within the last twenty
pears, while that with Russia had only doubled, and that
with Austria had actually diminished. Turkey was ex-
ceedingly liberal in commercial matters, while Russia
sod Austria were both exclusive. Did any one think,
either, taking religious grounds, that there would now be
as English protestant bishop at Jerusalem If Austria were
the ruling power there ? (Hear, hear.) A good deal had
been said about " ancient allies," but the fact wee, that
Austria was the most modern power in Europe, and our
ancient alliance of Marlborough's times was with the Em-
peror of Germany. The fact was, that but one-fourth of
the Austrian empire was in Germany, the remainder being
in other countries, and all in disaffection. Never more
in Hungary would they hear the cry, [Mona:nue pro

Reg, is:argio. In they bad iOt forgotten the
murders incited by Austrian intrigues. and Italy
was one vast scene of murmur and desolation.
It appeared that Austria was animated by an exceedingly
inimical spirit towards this country, and wherever she had
influence there was reason to complain of the conduct pur-
sued towards British subjects, as In Saxony, Verona, and
other places. It had been the fashion to attribute the con-
duct of Austria in this respect to the noble lord now at the
►ead of the Home-dace, but that that was not the ease was
evident in the fact that many of the occurrences to which
he alluded had taken place after that noble lord left the
Foreign-office. (Hear, hear.) Then it could not be for-
gotten that Austria refused to send a deputation to attend
the funeral of the Duke of Wellington, though she owed
her independence in a great measure to bis exertions. The
two men who had done more than all else to save Austria
were Wellington and Sobieski, and to both she had evinced
gran ingratitude. He trusted the question would not be
treated as one of party, for the maintenance of the inde-
pendence of Turkey was a subject which ought to interest
every Englishman. Turkey having listened to our coun-
sel, sad refused to do what was demanded of her by Austria
sad Russia, in the cahoot the Hungarian refugese,.,aysit net

TURKEY AND MONTENEGRO. now be left • prey to the feelings et which that
Lord D. STUART roe, in purr ance of notice, to call refusal had awakened. With regard to thedismemberment
the attention of the house to the affairs of Turkey, as at of Turkey, if it were never so mach to our interest (and he
Acted by the contest now pronediag in Montenegro. He could not understand how it could be to our interest, seeing
said ao man could read the amenste of what was passing in that we had already all we required, viz., a free passage
the Not without feeling *bet et OM mime the indepen- through Egypt to India), to consent to the partitioning of
dente and the integrity add Tumid* empire, which had Turkey would be to cast aside all obligations of good faith',
been regarded by suiseadmi guernmeneein this country as and of treaties, and to re-enact scenes such ea from 1772 to
t objects, were in immineatemser. (Hear, hear.) 1795 existed in Poland. He nutted, therefore, that if any
heard of large mimed Austrians en the frontier of power entertained such • design it would be checked by
7, is WO direedenj they head of three corps ap- England, and he had no doubt that that good understand-
peni*mtlibefroadat rower dimities j and they were sag which he was happy to hear the other night existed
Uhl el huge& of VISII•OS kinds eildesesed by the between this country and France—whose interest in the
woe, peva of Male and /tad" es the Seblime maintenance of Turkish independence was as great as our
)Matra, Ix berme the meet peremptory, an ultimatum being own—would make the carrying out of that policy compare-
shied which was to be mmerered is a few days. It ap- tively easy. He was aware that an opinion prevailed in
%mai thee me of the ealbjesta which bed given rise to some minds that as the Christie° population of Turkey
these proonikope INS Ihe p web of the small pro- increased the present state of things must come to an end.
vim, or pot se a porbee, coned ; • cottony But we could not look into futurity. And, in the event of
se mall 111 oaten es is populaties, that, under other nr- very much as he was now alluding to taking place, it
Senaoces, it might &met be deseribed as a geographical would be our duty to take care that the Turkish territory
nen. kbetnagre, as the bon know, 1/011 • mull die- was not divided amongst those powers who had shown so
extesibe gent Illudbmike lessidi 35, with little regard fee the religious or the civil rights of their
t=tiest el save 110,000seekwm deeded in a own people. In conclusion, the noble lord moved for the
ea the Nast emu of the Adriatic, and was production of copies of any communication between the
The inhabitants were half bar- Austrian and Turkish governments, and the government of
besealitilhaTll.l.lll=ll6besa distinguished for their bravery. Great Britain in reference to the affairs of Montenegro.
Tlde ommitalikailbs pen el the provisos of Albania, was (Hear, hear.)
Veadisse by the Turks in 1478 ; and Mr. M. MILNES seconded the motion, and described
••• MI6 In 1629, and the other in 1718, the situation of Montenegro, and its importance to whatever
bolues• Melia awl Turkey, and between Venice and power might possess it, in consequence of the excellent har-
Turkey, bob peemetedi by the mediatorof England and bourage afforded in the Bay of &uterine. It was a sin/m-
-idland, defined the boundaries of Montenegro, and placed lac circumstance ricansetrA with the history of this torri-
d within the Turkish territory. In 1791 there was another tory, that it had been often ceded by treaty between
treaty entered bite between Austria and Turkey, under the foreign powers which had no right in it, either by
mediation of England. Holland, and Prussia, which not conquest or podeasion. No doubt it belonged to Turkey
duly left Montenegro still • part of Turkey, but in express more than to any other power, but he believed the Porte
tenas declared the Montenegrins subjects of the Porte. would never have interfered with the Montenegrins had
Sam that time there had been no treaty between Austria they kept themselves to themselves, and not carried on •
end Turkey which could in any way affect the matter. It systematic course of robbery or plunder towards the other
reillio tree, that the Montenegrins had, at various times, subjects of the Porte in Dramatis. Still, for more than 100
to lemon, and had in some degree enjoyed, their years, the authority of Russia bad been acknowledged in
but they had always bun under the raze- Montenegro and the Montenegrins had on several oda-
Italet the Portal and no treaty had ever been entered dons placed themselves under the protection of the
y Austria which at all affected that suzerainty. The Czar. He thought it would have been well if English and
treaty of Vienna in 1815 defined the limits of Austria, and French diplomacy at Constantinople had prevented the
it left Montmartre, as it was before, in the Turkish erapire. march of the Turkish army to Montenegro, and he had no
The attempt of the Montenegrins to render themselves bode- doubt had Lord Stratford de Radcliffe been at Constanti-
pendent of Turkey was made under very peculiar circuit- nople at the time means would have been taken to convince
stances. Montenegro was governed in a very peculiar way, the Montenegrins that they would receive under the Porte
namely, by a bishop, and the authority of this bishop was that liberty as a Christian nation which other Christian
hereditary in • way that was equally peculiar. As the communities in Europe under the dominion of Turkey en-
Greek bishops were not allowed to marry, and ofeourse joyed. Whether the papers for which his noble friend had
could have no bees--(a laugh)—the right to rule mar the moved could be produced he thought was doubtful at pre-
country ilsomoded met hem father to see, but hem mule to met, but he hoped the government would cam* forward
nephew. The We %asp, or Vladikat_lavag died lest year and declare that they considered it their duty to protect the
the authority develveffealis nephew, PeinseDuiel, amend Christian provinces of the Porte from the invasion of either
about 30, Who it appeared had an adee to be a deep. Austria or Russia, sad that our diplomacy at Constanti-
The noiorpiscopars it would ametter, hail aster hem mere nople supported, as he had no doubt it would be, by the
earnestly or sincerely said by 1110 mere 4•lMilatilos of our ambassador ft* France • man well known in and mast
protestant divines. ith that new he possedei In St.Petere- friendly to England, would
be directed to that object.
burgh to consult the Cur, and that mode ar madam might The question having been put from the chair,
appear very natural to those who, like Lord Xekembery, Lord J. RUSSELL rose and said—Mr. Speaker, I trust
fell into the blunder that the Czar was the bled of the my noble friend who has brought forward this question
Greek &arch. The fact was that the Reimer of Russia will not think it necesesry to press for the papers for which
was ad heed of the Greek church, bat merely of its fol- be has moved, inasmuch as the negotiations on the 'object
boon ideas his own dominions. The real -bead of the have not yet arrived at a termination. I will, however,
One 'batik was the Patriarch of Constantinople. It was endeavour shortly to follow him on the subject to which he
mid that the prime, while at St. Petenburgh received ad- professed in his notice to call the attention of the house,
ohs from the wry highest quarter to resist the an- vex., the affairs of Turkey es affected by the contest which
therity of the heltaa. However that might be, it was is now going on in Montenegro. (Hear, hear.) In the
melesis that isemediately after his return, these dinar- first place let me say that I agree in the general principlesl
IMMOOD. which bill led to the present complications, broke laid down by my noble friend, that this country ought to
ml,ami She memit of the Turkish army was necessitated. be especially anxious to maintain the independence and in-
-18 du added, that the Cm, having given this advice to the levity of Turkey. (Cheers.) Turkey has long formed an
Thrift sionory advice to the Sultan, through his important part of the European county of nations, and its'
Clenstantinople ; thus following the usual independence and integrity as a nation has been repeatedly
tatty pair of Zara* which was to sow disunion and die- confirmed by treaty, and was sanctioned by a convention
eactim ammo asishboaring powers. So it had been in of the general powers not longer ago than 1840. (Hear,
Poland, sod so maw sustly in Hungary, when the Aue- hear.) I trust that independence may long be maintained,
Maas were lOpOINO•01 is the worst possible light, and the for I own I could not conceive any greater calamity be.
Russian army WI tip as the saviours of the cowl- falling Europe at this time than the necessity of
try. But the Nuatoorgrba, supposing them to have considering what should be done in such a use
eassived this advice, soon acted on it, and commenced as the dismemberment of the Turkish empire.
Ifithe the no' hbouring Turkish provinces, and, by night (Loud cheers.) I have seen therefore with pain, the speen-
the garrison of Zabljek, put them all lations that have been recently put forth in some quarters
The masa saw that this state of things must on this subject. (Hear, bear.) In my opinion you could
begat an ad to, sod esserdingly sent an army to the spot, not attempt the dismemberment of Turkey by force or by
eiliM am aimmand if Omer Puha, the most distinguished diplomacy, without committing a great crime and a viola-
diendeuller in the Turkish army. It was said that this lion all the laws which bind nations—(heer, bear)—and
Qom Puha was • renegade from the Austrian army. But I trust there is no Englishman who wishes to be a party to
that was not the fact, as he had come to Turkey at a very any such transactions, in regard to Turkey, as those which
nely had bees brought up there, and had distinguished accompanied the partitioning of Poland. (Much cheering.)
la the la Kurdistan. Well, this army If, however, it should so happen that Turkey should fall to
lanai eamobed, ii Austrian ambassador made some pieces of her own weakness, then there might be a question
estroordinary dam mss at Constantinople. Among arise of very great importance ; but for my own part it sp-
atter things, be IMplained of the appearance of so pears to me a question of such great gravity, that I cannot
bop ea mug due mon the Austrian frontier. He de- contemplate such an event happening, without feelings of
mobil rammer that eh rinegerians in that army should the deepest interest and apprehension. (Hear, hear.) I
bet dimelleed, and ase to cession of two maritime points am afraid, looking at the position of the different powers,
within the Turkish territory. These demands were made that it would not be possible to provide for such an event,
la the meat peremptory tone, and gave the Turkish go- without producing in Europe • preponderance which would
VOMMIIIIII bat live days to reply to his ultimatum. It was arouse the oppcsition of all the other powers, and such
quite reemeable that explanations should have been de- a state of anarchy in Asia, as it is fearful to contemplate.
=Med emportieg Omer's army; and if they had been (Hear, hem.) On the grounds then of the obligations of

tinned. In the coarse of these negotiations we ham been
is constant communication with the French government;
and I am happy to my that, except as regards oar unfortu-
nate question, In which we are not so much interested—
that relating to the holy places—that government has acted
in perfect concurrence with our own. (Cheers.)
Lord D. STUART, after the declaration of his noble
friend, would withdraw his motion and not press for the
papers in question, trusting that nn a future occasion, when
all negotiation was concluded, he might be allowed to renew
his motion. . .

international law, the stipulations of treaties, and the good
faith we bath always and generally expressed, we are
bound to !maintain the entirety of Turkey, as a great and
ruling point of English polity. (Cheers.) In regard to the
trsasactions which have lately occurred, I will state to the
house,without going into the particulsn of the negotiations,
the general outline of what has taken place with respect
to Montenegro. I will not enterinto the question as to the
other powers. bat as to the relations between Austria
and Turkey, I think I am in a position to give some ex-
planation to the house, and I will proceed to do so. (Hear,
hear.) The little territory of Montenegro has been, as my
noble friend has described, long inhabited by a very hardy
race of mountaineers belonging to a branch of the Christian
church, but certainly deviating, to • considerable extent,
from Christian precepts—for it has been their habit
and custom not on to permit, but to encourage,
robbery and the pillage of their neighbours, and
to enrich themselves by these means. But for a long
time, though acknowledged by the treaty of Charlowits and
some other subsequent treaties, the last of which was the
treaty of Sistowa—though acknowledged by those treaties
to be under the sovereignty of Turkey, the Montenegrins
have for a long time enjoyed a do facto independence ; and
that independence appears to have been acknowledged by
Russia. But there is this difference between the relations
of Austria and Russia in regard to Montenegro, that while
Austria has at all times, and up to the present day, acknow-
ledged that Montenegro was subject to Turkey, the Russian
government does not appear to acknowledge any such claim
on the part of the Sultan of Turkey, but has treated Mon-
tenegro as an independent State. For a long time, the
bishops of Montenegro, who have combined in themselves
both the ecclesiastical' and the civil power, have been ac-
customed to resort to St. Petersburgh to the Russian
patriarch, to obtain investiture, instead of to the
patriarch at Constantinople, or any other patriarch of the
Greek Church of equal or superior authority ; and on the
occasion of the death of the late bishop, who is described as
having been a very remarkable man, hit nephew went to
St. Petenburgh, as has been stated by my noble friend, to
consult the emperor, to whom he declared that he did not
wish to take upon himself the ecclesiastical state, that his
friends and fellow countrymen of Montenegro were willing
to acknowledge him as their :chief without his assuming
spiritual function, and that he proposed to rule the Monte-
negrin people as an independent King, and that another
person should become Bishop of Montenegro. To this arrange-
ment the Emperor of Russia appears to have lent a willing
ear, and according to the statements of the Russian govern-
ment, dismissed him with wards of civility and kindness,
advising him at the same time to restrain his people from
pillaging, and to live at peace with his neighbours.
However, that young chief did not appear to have profited
by that advice, for we soon hear of attacks made by the
people of Montenegro, of villages and property destroyed,
and the inhabitants killed by rrsons who called themselves
subjects of Montenegro. The Turkish government deter-
mined to meet these aggressions, and to punish those who
had been guilty of them ; but in doing so they adopted
the plan of attempting the complete conquest of Montene-
gro, and for that purpose raised a very lawn force of
60,000 men, and placed at its head a very able chief, Omer
Pasha, who is supposed to have promised the Sultan utterly
to subdue what he called the rebellious part of his domi-
nions. It appeared to the governments of France and Eng-
land that this step was imprudent on the part of the Po:te.
In the first place, considering the state of his financial rc-
'agrees, and considering also the state of his military
resources, such a proceeding would be accompanied by a
great drain on those resources, and was in itself an act
not justified by precedent. It in the next place appeared
probable (as was stated by my noble friend who seconded
the motion) that the destruction or utter subjugation and
the probable doing away of a great portion of the 100,000
inhabitants of Montenegro, would excite the alarm of the
neighbouring Christian districts, and might lead to • reli-
gious war. Accordingly representations were made, and
friendly advice given to the Sultan not to attempt this ex-
pedition on so large • scale, by Lord Derby's government,
and repeated by me when I held the seals of the Foreign
Office. I believe that the French, acting on the same views,
gave similar advice. However, the expedition proceeded.
I will not enter on the discussion of the military operations,
but the next important point we had to consider was the
mission of Count Leiningen to the Porte. It is evident
that, whatever were the intentions of Austria,
from the first oommunication made by the Austrian
minister to us, that Count Leiningen was instructed to lay
the demands of Austria before the Porte in • peremptory
manner; and while on the one hand, if those demands
were complied with, friendly intercourse between the
two nations would be re-established with the same
cordiality as formerly prevailed, on the other hand it
was not concealed that very grave consequences would
follow a refusal. Her Majesty's government, on hearing
what those demands were, thought it prudent to re-
quire a frank explanation from the Austrian government.
We communicated the views we have always held of
the policy of maintaining the independence and the in-
tegrity of 'Turkey ; and we pointed out the danger of
anything like a menses to Turkey, and the consequence of
a collision between the forces of the two empires. I mast
say that the explanations we received from the Austrian
government showed that whatever she might thint of
the necessity for making those demands at the present
time, Austria was actuated (and if this I received assurance
to which the utmost credit is due) entirely by a desire to
maintain the independence of Turkey, and to maintain
those amicable relations which have so long subsisted.
The demands made were various ; but, with respect
to Montenegro, those demands did not depart from
the terms of the treaties to which I have referred ; nor did
they depart, as might have been expected, from a power
which has always shown respect to the international law of
Europe, from any principles which might not be justified
by that international law. It was said that Montenegro
belonged Ss jury to Turkey, but that for • long time
the independence of those mountaineers had not been
disturbed, and that a large army in that country
would disturb the frontiers of Austria, that many
persons would take refuge over those frontiers,
that it would be difficult to maintain tranquillity, and that
Austria would be compelled to have a large force there la
order to maintain tranquillity in her own dominions; and
besides it was stated how imminent was the danger of a re-
ligious war, which would be the greatest danger of all. We
wished, therefore, that while Turkey did not depart from
the maintenance of her title, and at the same time punished
acts of pillage on her territories, that she should still look
to the "quasi" independence which Montenegro has
hitherto preserved. With regard to two portions of those
territories," Klock and Suttorina, demands were made by
Austria of very complicated nature. These two portions of
the Montenegrin territories were intermingled with the terri-
tories of Austria, and were so intermingled because one of
them formerly beleaged to the republic of Ragusa, and the
other was a portion of the territory given to Austria by the
treaty of Vienna, as forming a part of the republic of Venice.
Austria has always said that the possession of this inter-
mingled territory by mother power was inconvenient, and
in 1832 and 1833 she endeavoured to obtain by pnielmesthe
sovereignty of those small territories from Tomboys bed
having failed to accomplish that, she hee 'Mimed She erne
rights with respect to them as bedewed ft the Veneffign
republic ; and that, while the laa4 &WI be een-
sidered the property of Turkey, there should be no ae•
tempt to carry on any trade and intercourse with
the opposite shore, and that Venice should always be kept
free frees such intercourse. I do not my that Austria is
well founded in them allegations, but I have only mete.
tinned them in order that the house might be aware of the
nature of the demands made by Count Leiningen. Another
complaint is made by Austell', and that is that Zsigerima
refugees who remained in Turkey from the time thee the
war in Hungary ceased were not only oounMenmeell
Turkey, but allowed to serve in the army of Omer Pashes
and hold distinguished poets in that army, and that the at.
teotion of Austria was necessarily called to that fad. With
respect to the refugees, it seemed to be the revival
of the question that the Turkish government, when it pen
mitted the Hungarian refugees to leave Turkey, were bound
to give wane explanation as to why they had not been kept
in that country. Added to these demands, there were
various questions with regard to wrongs dons to Austrian
subjects, for which no redress had been afforded, and he
which the Austrian government demanded reparation cal
compensation. Such is the general nature of the deeedede
which Count Leiningen was desired to lay before the es-
vernment of the Sultan. I cannot say that there is any em• of
them which affects the independence of the Sultan, and which
is not founded en some allegation of the Austrian
government which might apply to a government not un-
friendly to Turkey. lam not able to give any information
exactly as to the result. The demands were placed before
the Turkish government, which was occupied in consulta-
tion on them for some days, and we hear from our ambas-
sador at Vienna that the Austrian government is satisfied,
that the mission of Count Leiningen has been successful,
and that the negotiations are at an end. With respect to
the other questions to which my noble friend has inciden-
tally alluded, I do net think that any farther purpose
would be gained by my entering on them. There are, un-
fortunately, questions pending of vital importance to the
Turkish Empire. It has been hitherto, and will be for
the future, our course throughout these proceedings to give
advice to Turkey which we think is calculated to promote
the maintenance of her honour and independence, and, at
the same time, not expose her to the rude shock of warlike
encounter. No man has better than Lord Stratford en-
forced the opinion that the good government of the Chris-
tian subjects of the Porte should be confirmed by regular
laws, and that the maintenance of a system similar to that
of European communities should be adopted and enforced
by the Porte, and that he ought to give his Christian subjects
no reason to complain of their having to live under a sove-
reign not of the same faith as themselves. This much is
perfectly practicable; and it is quite possible for Turkey,
discarding the notions of earlier times of conquest when
she obtained possession of those provinces, to give to her
christian subjects as good government as is ob-
tained by them from the sovereigns of the
neighbouring states. If Turkey will conduct herself in
that way, and will take friendly advise from the ambas-
sador who is now proceeding to her capital, I need hardly
say that Turkey will always find a faithful ally in
Great Britain. We can have no other object but • friendly
one. We want none of her provinces, and we have no wish
to possess any of her territories or power. Our interest, in
common with that of all the powers of Europe is, that
Turkey should be maintained in her integrity and governed
is such a manner as to prevent her being visited by insur-
rection, or exhibiting such internal weakness and dissen-
sion as are too often the strongest temptation to a foreign
foe to become her aggressors. I trust that the other
powers of Europe entertain similar views to our own.
(licar, hear.) Many dangers have air ady paged
' away, and 1 have the strongest confidence that,
as regards any dangers which may yet exist
by friendly negotiation and a reasonable consideration of
theta, such questions as may remain unsettled will be
aarought to a peaceful conclusion, and that the maintenance
of the present territorial position of Europe may be con-

Triem•-•tion wu then withdrawn.
JUDGES IN PARLIAMENT.

Lord HOTHAM rose to wive for leave to bring in a hill
to disqualify certain judicial officers from sitting sod voting
in the House of Commons. The noble lord stated that on a
former occasion he had abstained from bringing in a bill to
disqualify the Judge of the Admiralty Court from sitting
in that house while that judge was member for the
Tower Hamlets, and a similar feeling had deterred
him from bringing forward the present measure while the
Master of the Rolla occupied a seat in the house ; but as he
ne longer was a member, he had brought it forward, and
he hoped the house would acquiesce in an extension of the
existing system of exclusion of official officers from that
house, who might properly be described as judges of the
superior courts.

Lord PALMERSTON said he should offer no opposition
to the bringing in of the bill, of course reserving to the go-
vernment to take such course as they thought fit on the
second reading of the bill.
The motion was then agreed to.
IMPORT DUTIES.

Mr. HUME then rose on the motion of which he had
given notice —" That it appears, by returns on the table of
the horse, that there are 23:1 entries in the Custom-house
tariff list of foreign manufactured articles charged in the
year 1851 with duties of import, varying in amount from
one to fifty per cent. on the value of such articles, and
such articles may be classed under five schedules or lists,
via., producing in
Schedule. Import Duty.
No. 1 each article pro• 129 articles producing
clueing under the aggregate
£lOO of duty sum of £2,349
2 600 .... 37
3 1,000 .... 17
4 6,000 .... 30
6 100,000 .... 20 • 343,4.59
No. 233 and Duty £434.154
Also, that there are entries in the Custom-howl tariff of
foreign agricultural produce charged with import duties,
varying in amount, and these articles may be classed under
six heads or schedules, namely, in
Schedule. Import Duty.
No. 1 each article pro- 2.5 articles producing
during under the aggregate
£lOO of duty sum of £3B2
2 600 .... 8
3 1,000 .... 4
4 5,000 .... 11
6 100,000 .... 12
6 500,000 .... 2

No. 62 and Duty £916,435
That whilst the agricultural produce of wheat, barley, oats,
and other grain, and oxen, sheep, goats, and other animals
are admitted duty free to compete with similar productions
of the United Kingdom, it is both impolitic and unjust to
the country, and to the agricultural interests especially, to
continue duties of import on articles of foreign manufac-
tore of the same kind and class with those meant ictured
in the United Kingdom, as by these protective duties on
imports the fair competition of foreign manufactured arti-
cles with the articles of British manufacture is prevented.
That this house will, at an early period, take into ita consi-
deration the duties that are strictly protective in the exist-
ing tariff on articles of import into this country,
both of manufactures and agricultural produce, with
the view of speedily repealing the same, as at
fecting unfairly every interest in the country."
He said those who had attended to the progress of free
trade principles would recollect what took place in 1840,
when, in a committee of that house, he had the oppor-
tunity of bringing forward in that house a mass of evidence
so strong and so triumphant to the view he took of the mani-
fold advantages which would arise from the removal of the
restrictions sad monopolies which then existed. It would be
recollected that the revenue had declined for two or three
years, and that they had a deficiency of two millions and a
half a year. An attempt was made, by adding 6 per cent.
to the customs and excise, to supply that deficiency. On
that occasion he made the same proposition that was made
the other night, that a tax should be laid on the descent of
real as well as personal property, hut that proposition was
not carried. The result of the additional 5 per cent. on
customs and excise was, that the revenue suffered instead
of gaining, except as regarded the assessed taxes. A large
majority of the house was now in favour of free trade. For
his part he should like to see the custom-house abolished
altogether. The trade of the couatry would be enor-
mously benefited by it; and he thought the time
would come when that would become • serious
question. At the present moment all he asked
was to carry out free trade by removing the various
protective duties which were yet left. They had removed
the duties on the produce of agriculture, and what was the
price of mutton and beef and corn at this moment ? Fully
higher than before free trade was brought into operation ;
and what was more, they had the satisfaction of high prices,
with a contented population. He only wanted to carry out
the principle. There were duties on 22,33 articles connected
with manufacture, the amount raised by which was only
434,1641., and there were 6t articles of foreign agricultural
produce, 25 of which produced each under 1001. of duty,
and the whole 62 produced only 916,4351., including the
shilling duty on grain, which was a tax, but was not in-
tended to be. This was according to the return of 1850.
He considered it unjust to the agricultural interest
to open the door to every article of their produce,
and not to carry out free trade completely with
regard to every other article. They were promised
that at the time of the repeal of the corn laws. There was
a duty on cotton manufactures, and it had been thrown in
the teeth of the cotton manufacturers that there was this

duty, but it was absurd to maintain such a duty, which
produced only 42,0791., while the value of our exports of
cotton manufactures, yarn, and hosiery, was upwards of
28,000,0001. Sir Robert Peel removed the excise duty on
glass, but there was retained an import duty which acted as
a protective duty. He had taken the trouble of ascertaining
the price of glass in neighbouring countries. Ho had taken
Belgium. The piece of glass he held in his hand was three-
quarters of an inch thick, and the house would be surprised
to find that the import duty on it was 50 per cent. Window
glass was charged 3s. Bd. per cwt. 100 square feet, at the
avenge price in Belgium, would cost 13s. The duty at the
present time amounted to 275. Gd., and if the glass were of
a thickness which would fit it for conservatories, and be
thick enough to withstand a storm of bail, the price of 100
square fist in Belgium would be 16s. Gd. and the imoort
duty in this country would be 255. Then taking cut glue.
Glass tumblers were charged a duty of Id. each, and small
as that might appear, it was 40 per cent. on the price of
common tumblers. On flint cut glass the import duty was
2d. a lb., and on tumblers the duty amounted to 65 per cent.
Another item to which he would call attention was the
leather manufacture. On men's and women's boots, shoes,
and various articles in that category, there was a duty of
9,0001., and the effecgof it was to prohibit competition. He
submitted that this also ought to be removed. The duty on
linen produced 4,6701.; and what necessity could there be
for it when our exports under that head were worth
4,000,0001.1 Wool was in a similes position to linen. The
duty amounted to 13,0001., and the value of our exports
was between eight and nine millions. He now came to
agricultural produce. The articles comprised under that
head required the serious consideration of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer. He maintained that on the same principle
that they admitted oxen, sheep, and other animals, they
were bound to admit butter, cheese, and eggs. Let
the duty be entirely removed, and he was quits sure
the home producer would have no cause to grumble.
He could not understand why agriculturist, should desire
to see castaway seeds, carrot seeds, clover seeds, and so on,
subject to a duty; and as to grass seeds, the tendency
which there was to lay down land for pasture was strongly
in f of the remission of the duty. From tallow they
received 28,0001. He knew it might be objected here that
when that house formerly reduced the duty the Russian
government imposed a duty to an equivalent amount; but
this country was no longer at the mercy of Russia, now'
that she could loot for an ample supply from her Austra-
lian colonies. One great object which he had in view was
to place all classes, including of course, agriculturists, on
the same footing. (Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of the
Exchequer might say that he could not afford
these remissions, but he (Mr. Hume) having
full confidence is free trade, believed that no inconveni-
ences would follow. Let them look at the past. Between
1824 and 1829 duties were reduced to the amount of
7,319,0001. ; yet such was the elasticity of the revenue, that
at the end of that period the diminution of revenue
amounted only to 2,713,0001. (Hear, hear.) In the nine
years from 1842 to 18.51 there was a remission of 10,251,0001. ;
and in the same period 9,600,0001. was made up through
the elasticity produced by the removal of taxstion. (Hear,
hear.) Now, he asked the house to affirm that it would
at an early period take into consideration those
duties which were strictly protectii e, with a view to
their repeal. If they were to lave free trade, let
it be fairly carried out. (Opposition cheers.) Ho was
an humble instrument in forcing free-trade through that
house; but he must say, that he thought the agriculturists
had been badly treated with regard to all these duties,
which await to have been repealed simultaneously with the
repeal of the corn laws. (" Hear, hear," from the Opposi-
tion.) It was not his fault that it did ait take place, and
he believed that if Sir Robert Peel had remained in office
another year, he would have swept them all away. It had
often been said that the interest of the landlord and of the
farmer were the same. He did not thiuk so. He had often
endeavoured to persuade the farmer to regard himself as
a manufacturer, and to show him that it was his own in-
terest to obtain everything at the most reasonable rate ; and
it was for the sake of farmers, as well as other classes of
society, that he sought the remission of this 1,300,0001. What
he wanted that evening was an assurance from the govern-
, meat that they would carry out free-trade completely.
The hon. member concluded by moving his resolutions.
Mr. MITCHELL, in seconding the motion, regretted
that the duty on wood had not been included. In his opi-
nion the matter should be dealt with during the present ses-
sion.

Colonel SIBTIIORP could inform the ban. member for
Montrose that old birds were not to be caught with chaff.
(A laugh.) The hon. member having done everything to
injure the farmer—having now almost cut him up—he
offered to be his physician, and presented this black draught
for his acceptance. They had now got a Chancellor of the
free-trade class; but he (Col. Sibthorp) hoped he would not