The Express.
London, England, 1853-02-25 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 25, 1853.

Iran the fact being that the emigrants kid been univer
sally successfully, there had been many ewes of great set.
feriog and disappointment. He need not remind the
house of the very great sickness and misery which pre-
vailed last year on board the emigrant ships. (Hear.)
In many tastiness the emigrants, on landing, had been suf.
tering under grievous sickness, consequent on the iosefil- '
cient accommodation and the hardships to which they had
been exposed during • long voyage. As the house was
aware, it had been the fortune of the late government to
hold office during the
.year when the consequences of the
extraordinary discoveries of gold in Australia bman to be
felt, and he could astute them that nothing connected with
his official duties while he was Colonial Secretary gave
him more anxiety than the crisis which had thus come
upon these colonies. His wish (and that wish was fully
shared in by his colleagues) was that the colonies should be
met by the mother country in a liberal and generous spirit
—(hear, hear)--and his object in bringing this sabject be-
fore the house now was to state, in the first place, what the
late government bad thought it their duty to adopt in re-
; gara to the future government of the Australian colonies ;
and secondly, in no spirit of distrust or suspicion, to call
upon the present government to say whether or not they
intended to contuses that policy, and if not to what
extent and in what particulars they proposed to
deviate from it? After a statistical statement of the pro-
gress •f the colonies, be went on to say, he came to
the discovery of gold. So sudden and unexpected
was the change in the circumstances of the colonies
of Victoria and New South Wales, occasioned by the gold
discoveries, that the executive governments were wholly un
prepared with proper means of control; theless,
throughout the whole period in which so large a proportion
of the population had been diverted from their ordinary oc-
cupations to this new field of wealth, and so many thou-
sands had been attracted by these discoveries to the colonies,
the conduct of the people generally both in New South
Wales and in Victoria bad beeu most creditable. He did
not mean to say that disorder had not taken place in any
inetsuce, but as a general rule the conduct of the people
engaged in this novel and exciting occupation, and the
temptations to which they were exposed, had been most
creditable. The sabbath was regularly observed, and divine
worship was not neglected. These were features which the
house would admit were most honourable to the character
of the population. (Hear, hear.) But there was another
circumstance which he could not avoid mentioning as being
equally creditable to another portion of her Majesty's sub.
jects—he meant that portion upon which the country de-
pended for defence in tome of war—the British army.
There was at Melbourne a small body of soldiers of the
line, about 60 men, who were billetted in the town, there
being no barracks, and notwithstanding the temptations
which the proximity of the gold fields presented to them, he
had not heard of a mingle instance of desertion. (Cheers.)
The house week' be aware that it became the duty of the
late government, in June last, to consider the experse to
which the government of Victoria was exposed in cease-
geese' of the gold discoveries, and they considered it only
just that the revenue arising tram those discoveries should
be placed at the disposal of the colony. In the despatch
which he (Sir J. Pakingtoo) sent out to the colony, he
intimated that assistance would be provided by the mother
country in the shape of police, and that the revenue obtained
from gold in whatever colony it might be found was
to be left to the regulation of the colonial legis-
lature, and to be expended under their management,
by the colonial government. (Hear.) This was the policy
which the late government thought most likely to conduce
to the satisfaction and welfare of to colonists, and which
would be accepted by them as the most fair and liberal on
the part of the mother country. Shortly after he hod sent
out that despatch, there arrived in this country • petition
from the legislature of New South Wales, which attracted
considerable and merited notice in parliament, and bad
been brought under discussion in both houses. That pe-
tition contained a bold and complete decl oration of what
the legislature of New South Wales thought due to the
colony, and stated, in strong terms, the demands they made
upon the government of this country. He promised at the
time that that petition should receive the best atten-
tion. But he believed the house was not at that time aware
that the petition was merely a renewal of • declaration and
remonstrance that had been sent to this country in June,
1861, by the then existing legislature of New South Wales,
agreed to in their last session, and which arrived here in De-
cember in that year, and which had been answered by
Lord Grey in January, 1852, in a demateh, wherein he dis.
fleetly refused every cne of he demands made. In the fol
lowing February the government of Lord John Russell
went out of office, and within a week after the writing of
that despatch the aew legislature of New South Wales,
which had been appointed under the act of 1860, adopted
the same declaration and remonstrance which they
embodied word for word in the petition to which he had
referred. The right hon. gentleman, after describing the
policy of the late government in greeting the demands of
the colonists, especially in reference to the sale of lands,
and the granting of a double chamber to New South
Wales, said—There was another subject which had
excited in the Australian colonies an interest inferior to
none which he had mentioned, and that was the subject of
transportation to Van Diemen's Lend. He must trespass
on the house for a short time, in order to state the grounds
on which the late government took the course they did.
The noble lord (J. Russell) on the first night of the session
told the house that the present government intended
to act on the declaration of the late government on
the subject of transportation ; but as far as he (Sir
.1. Pakingtoo) could follow him, there was one
part of his statement in which he appeared to
differ from the late government if he said that it
was intended that transportation should cease to all
the colonies. That, however, had been explained since by
the noble duke the Secretary for the Colonies in another
place. That noble duke stated that, as the noble lord had
stated, the late government had sent • despatch putting
an end to transportation in Van Diemen's Land, and that
the present government would persevere in that course ; but
neither the noble duke nor the noble lord explained the rac-
oons why they thought that course desirable. Intim mean-
time a very high authority, the Lord Chief,/ stifle* of England
(Lord Campbell) stated in the House of Lords his regret that
the punishment of transportation should cease, and ex-
pressed a strong opinion in favour of that punishment as
it was at present constituted. In 1847 a committee of the
House of Lords sat on this question, and some of the most
eminent judges were examined before it, who, in their
evidence, expressed the tame opinion as Lord Campbell,
and evinced the greatest desire that the punishment of
transportation should be continued. It might appear pre-
sumption in him (Sir J. Pakington) to mention what he
himself felt, after what had been said of Lord Calomel! and
the judges, still he would not conceal that in the debates
which took place on the subject, he was one of those who
expressed an opinion in favour of transportation, as he was
convinced by his experience in courts of justice, that it was
valuable as a punishment. Under these cdrcumetances, he
thought it necessary, being so far the organ of the late
government, to explain why they had promised Van Die-
man's Land that transportation thither would cease. He
had received • most respectable and influential deputation
on the subject, headed by the right hon. baronet the Chief
Commissioner of Works, and it was pressed on him that it
it was what was called the determination of the Australian
colonies nothing to submit to the transportation of convicts
thither. He answered that he had lately heard
that Western Australia was willing to receive con-
victs, and that • petition had been sent from Moreton
Bay in New South Wales, praying to be separated from
New South Wales, in order that convicts might be received
there • and also that the Colonial Office in the time of Lord
Grey had received a representation from 140 colonists of
Van Diemen's Lend, praying that transportation to that
colony might continue, on account of the benefit it derived
from the labour of the ocisvicto. He (Sir J. Pakingwt:das ,
however, gave a promise that the late government
give their anxious attention to the representations widish
had been made to them, and that they would, if they could
consistently with their duty to the colonies, cause the trans-
portation of convicts to cease. Accordingly they advised
her Majesty in the speech from the throne to hold out to
Van Diemen's Land the hope that there would be no
further transportation to that colony. It was true that
it might be said that opinions were divided on
the point ; it was true that under the present* arising from
want of labour at Moreton Bay that colony was willing to
receive convicts ; it was true that Western Australia was
willing to receive them, and that there was a division of
opinion on the subject in Van Diemen's Land; and there
could be no doubt that owing to the discoveries of gold Van
Diemen's Land had benefited by convict labour in conse-
quence of its supplying the defiMency caused by the depar-
ture of so many labourers to the gold diggings. Notwith-
standing all this the late government was not able to resist
the conviction that en the whole there prevailed the deepest
dislike and dread of the importation of convicts, ands strong
determination to use every legitimate means to put an
end to a system which the colonists maintained was the
source of great evil On these principles the late govern-
ment had acted, and he hoped that on those principles the
present government was also prepared to act. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. PEEL said he entirely concurred in the opening ob-
servations of the right hon. gentleman, and he agreed with
him that he was under no necessity of apologisuog to the
house for calling their attention to the situation of the Aus-
tralian colonies. Those colonise constituted • group of our
dependencies of which the house had jest reason to feel
proud. They had displayed in • remarkable degree the ca-
pacity of the English race for taking root in foreign coun-
tries, and they were communities which in an incredibly
short space of time had almost rivalled the countries of Eu-
rope. The right bon. gentleman had not overstated the
results of British energy and enterprise in those countries ;
and he (Mr. Pee)) fully endorsed the statement of the right
hon. gentleman with regard to the fidelity of the troops sta-
tioned at Victoria, and he would say as much for the regi-
ment at New South Wales, from which that detachment was
taken. He (Mr. Peel) considered that public advantage would
result from the elaborate exposition of his sentiments on this
question, on the part of the right hon. gentleman. The
speech of the right hon. gentleman was interesting, and
abounded in accurate and reliable information; and the
(rely defect in the speech was, the want of proportion or
relation between it and the practical purpose he had in
view. As a vindication of the right hon. gentleman's own
policy, the speech could hardly be considered necessary
fur no one had impugned that policy; and no one's:l2j
be found unwilling to bear testimony in a general way to
the credit which was due to the right hon. gentleman's
colonial administration. With regard to that part of the
speech which was interrogatory, the announcement
which had been made both by the noble lord (Lord
John Russell), end by the noble Duke (Newcastle),
in another place, had in a great measure superseded the ne-
cessity of putting the questions which had been put by the
right hon. gentleman. The right hon. gentleman's appre-
hensions that the engagements which he (Sir J. Pakington)
had entered into might not be observed were perhaps not
altogether unjustifiable ; for the right hon. gentleman him-
self had not observed those engagements which the govern-
ment preceding that of which the right hon. gentleman had

been a member had entered into with regard to the clergy
stories of Canada. (Hear, hear.) Re (Mr. Peel) would
endeavour to distal these apprehensions, and in replying to
the right hots. gentleman, he would address himself to the
min ral points at issue contained in the petition and in the
despatch in question of the right hon. gentleman. There
were, in the first place, three paints of minor importance;
the interference of the government of this conatry in
the customs' establishment of tho colony ; the exercise. of

she veto power of the crown; and the manner in which
the patronage of the colonial office had been exercised. The
first was no longer in the class of grievances; for, prior to
the reception of the petition, the Customs' establishments
bad been entirely transferred to the colony. The complaint,
with regard to the exercise of the patronage of the colonial
ellbe, was, he thought, very unreasonable. During Lord
Grey's long tenure of office, that noble lord had as fully re-
cognised the claims of colonial talent as it was possible to
demand. (Hear, hoar.) With very few exceptions, every
nomination to office in the colony had been made by Lord
Grey upon the recommendation of the executive of the
isotopy. There was no doubt a suggestion that there should
be a monopoly enjoyed by the inhabitants of the colony of
all offices of trust and emolument within the colony ; but
be believed that the establishment of any such regulation
would be attended with very great inconvenience to the
public service. Obviously, occasions would arise when the
bed selectiun must necessarily be made in this country, and,
he certain offices, special capabilities would be called for
which were not to be found within the narrow limits of
seelonial opportunities. With respect to the veto he thought
that the grievance was more in theory than in practice.
Practically, very few colonial ordinances were ever dis-
allowed by the Colonial office. The legislature of New
South Wales had suggested that it would be possible to
make a distinction between matters of a local or municipal
character only and those which were of imperial interest,
and in which the prerogatives of the crown might possibly
be involved; and if it should be found possible to draw
seek a line of demarcation, while not restricting the exist-
ing power of the colonial legislature, he felt sure that there
would be no disinclination on the part of the noble duke at
the head of the Colonial office to consider the propriety of
establishing such a system. (Hear, hear.) He would pro.
owed to address himself to the more important points in the
petition. The petition concluded with a proposition. The
eolosial council said, "If you will give us the exclusive
control, and if you will assist us in exorcising the power
conferred on us by the act of 1860 to amend our constitn-
Goes, we shall be prepared to bear not only all the expenses
of civil government but likewise the cost of ear mili.ery
protection." And, as a test of their loyalty and devotion,
they proposed to undertake to vote her Majesty an ample
sad adequate civil list in substitution for that civil list the
amount and character of which we in this country at pre-
sent determined. He admitted the justice of their repre-
sentations with respect to the civil list ; and that if it was in
ensfermity with the letter it was not in accordance with the
spirit of the act of 1778. by which parliament once fur all
renounced the power of levying taxes on our colonial
fellow-subjects to appropriate, as we did by the
present system, for the civil list a portion of the
taxes which were imposed by the colonists themselves.
(Hear, hear.) In considering this question, therefore, he
was inclined to believe that the preponderance of argument
rested with the colonial legislature, and the present govern-
ment were quite prepared to accept a civil list voted by the
colony in substitution for the civil list which parliament at
preseut appropriated. (Hear, hear.) He was satisfied
that parliament would have any reason to regret tusk-
ing that course, and ho had unbounded confidence in the
good sense of the colony. Ile had very recently seen the
draft of • measure to grant • civil list to her Majesty, which
had been prepared by a committee of the Legislative Coun-
cil of New South Wales, and he found that the suns which
that committee recommended exceeded the sum which par-
liament appropriated; the sum parliament took being
73,0001. and the sum recommended by the colonists being
80,000/. (Hear, bear.) The general reasons which urged
such a change were palpable. At the distance at which we
were from the colony we were not in a position to deter-
mine accurately what would be the necessary sums. In
Victoria, for instance, we reserved the sum of 20,000/. for
the chief civil departments of the government, imagining
that that sum would bear some proportion to the resource
of the colony, and be sufficient in such a contingency as
that of the Legislative Council not voting the year's supply.
Bet it now appeared that the estimated expenditure of Vic-
toria for the next year amounted to no less a sum than
1,760,000/. In Van Diemen'. Land, again, they had pro-
posed 2,0001. for the payment of the colonial so-
Notary, and the clerks in his office; but in conse-
quence of the changed state, of things there that
sum would now have to be raised to 11,0001.
Clearly, therefore, we should do better by allowing them
to vote their own civil list. With regard to the unappro-
priated waste lands there was mere difficulty. According
to his view of the subject, the crown was a proprietor of
those unappropriated waste lands as a trustee, not for the
benefit of the inhabitants of any particular colony, but fur
the good of the people of the empire at large. In that
sense it was that the Colonial-office had interfered and re-
fulated in regard to this point ; and he entirely differed
rom the right hon. gentleman with respect to the justice of
the manner in which the crown had exercised the trust.
He believed that all that had been done had been greatly
to the ultimate advantage of the colony. This be was
quite sure of—that in the Land Sales Act, and in the
crown's manages-nt of the waste lands, the two leading
principles acted upon had been sound and just; first, that
the land should be sold ; and next, that the price should be
a fixed price. To illustrate the benefit of the system pur-
sued it was only necessary to refer to the opposite system
pursued in British North America, where complaints bad
at one time been so prevalent that, in consequence of the
free grant., enormous tracts of the best land had tome
into the possession of persons without capital and without
any means whatever of developing the resources of the
country. Let the history of Western Australia and of
Victoria be compared. The first had been almost ruined
by the system of free grant', and was now only just begin-
wog to recover. In Victoria, on the other hand, from
the earliest time, the land had been sold at high prices,
and her prosperity in consequence had been supreme. It
was, however, nut to be forgotten that, whatever the eco-
nomical advantages or disadvantages, there were political
considerations which were entitled the utmost attention.
Public opinion in the colony was strong, and had been
strongly pronounced. The right hon. gentleman had ad-
verted to the stipulation made, that the change in the coo.
stitution of the legislature of New South Wales should
precede actual concession in regard to the waste lands.
If the right hon. gentleman would advert to the pe-
tition he would find that there were two requests—
that the land fund should be conceded to the colony, aid
that we should give the colony assistance in altering their
*Destitution, as permitted by the act to which he had re-
ferred. The present government was prepared to give them
that assistance. He would not revive the discussions which
bed formerly taken place in that house with respect to the
sstion of the advantages of two chambers over one cham-
ber, and of adopting the principle of nomination in the
yippee chamber. A bill had been brought in in the colonial
Ifilature to convert the existing single chamber into •
legislature of two chambers; and in the proper time the
whole subject would come under re-consideration. And
while this transition was going on, it was the opinion of the
government that it would be inexpedient for parliament to
legislate as to the waste lands; and no measure
would be brought in until they had ascertained what
Was to be the permanent constitution of New
South Wales. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman'
bid adverted to the question of transportation ; and, in
most of the remarks of the right hon. gentleman on that
subject, be (Mr. Peel) entirely conearred.
Mr. ADDBRLEY tulated the House of Commons
es the discussion which taken place, and upon those
esseeedoes being now made to colonial demands and neces-
sities mid& be and ether colonial reformers had been for'
some yeses torgies upon successive governments. (Hear.) '
It appeared to him that they had not been dealing fairly
with the colonise, because all that the colonies asked for I
wale be allowed the control of the land revenues, and in
slim they were prepared to maintain their own defences,
sad is conduct their own administrations. That reasonable
request, however, had been refused up to this hour, and
the same system which bad led to the Kaffir war was still
suffered to prevail in our Australian colonies. The policy
of the late government in this respect was occasionally far
more enlighteaed than that now proposed by their succes-
sors. With regard to transportation, nothing could have
been more injurious to the interest or the honour: of
this country, than the system of sustained prevarication
which had been kept up upon this subject. Promises had been
made only to be broken or evaded,and as repeatedly had the
honour of this country been pledged to Van Diemen's Land
that transportation to that colony should be abolished, but
up to this hoar the pledge had not been redeemed. It was
urged, however, that transportation tended to make honest
men of our abandoned criminals, but that was the effect of
the boundless space which the colonies occupied, and what
he wanted the country to do was to make use of that space
for the occupation of the idle and dissolute before they sank
into a career of crime. (Hear, hear.) What a monstrous
thing it was that we first made criminals of a portion of our
population before we tried the influence of a colonial life in
correcting their bad habits and criminal propensities. No
wonder that such a system should ultimately work its
own cure, or that the colonies themselves should
have ultimately assumed an attitude of defiance in
demanding its immediate abolition. But perhaps what
brought this matter to a crisis sooner than another was the
wonderful discovery of gold which had been found in the
colonies, for that had the effect of rendering our system of
transportation to Australia a perfect farce. (Hear, hear.)
But the time had arrived when the whole question
of secondary punishments must be reconsidered ; and,
without detaining the house further, he would sit down
thanking the house for its attention, and expressing his
firm conviction that the day was not far distant when the
entire basis upon which our system of transportation rested
would have to be re-organised or abolished altogether.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought the right hon. baronet the
late Secretary for the Colonies was perfectly justified in
milling the attention of the house to the present state of
those important questions relating to our Australian colo-
ides, and he must say that he thought the late go-
Comment acted wisely, according to the circumstances
of the time, in the course which they took.
But, with regard to the great question of transpor-
tation, he thought he could hardly be called upon to deal
with it at the present moment, though he must be allowed to
say thus much, that the hon. gentleman opposite had not
fairly represented the conduct of Earl Grey, in so far as this
branch of the subject under discussion was concerned. What
the noble earl proposed soon after entering office was, that
persons convicted of transportable offences in this country,
should continue to be sent to Van Diemen's Land, but that
they should be sent, not in the character of convict., but of
exiles, and there would have been, according to that plan,
the same number of persons seat out as before. So far,
however, from this being an advantage to the colony, it WS
found that the authorities of the colony would have

less power over the criminals, than they ought to base over
men who had committed serious crimes, and therefore the
plan was abandoned. (Hear, hear.) That was the change
which Earl Grey mule for a brief time, but there were two
circumstances well worthy of notice that tended materially
to militate against the su less of the experiment. The go.
vernor unfortunately mistook the intentions of the punt-
meat, and gavo out a report that produced the erroneous
impression that trat.sportatton was to be entirely abau.
dotted. Another eircuuutuice that occurred to obstruct the
change was the alarm which was taken at the law being as
much, as it was supposed, relaxed in favour of the criminal.
and a committee of the House of Lords which was cppointest
to inquire into the whole subject reported that trees-
portation was absolutely necessary to deter crime, arid
ensure the well•being of society. It was obvious, three.
fore, that the change which was then proposed had net a
fair trial, and now arose the great point of secondary
punishments. The government were deliberating oonte
Dually upon this important subject ; but the right hop
baronet the late Secretary for the Coloni s pressed far the
decision of ministers upon that point. No decision, how
ever, could be taken until sufficient time had been allowei
for full and ample deliberation ; but, though he could give
the right holt. baronet no clue as to what that decision
would ultimately be, thus much he could assure him—that
no unnecessary delay should occur in settling the question
in the cabinet, and as soon as possible afterwards a mea-
sure founded upon the decision, whatever it might be,
should be brought in. (Cheers.)

•
Mr. HUME was extremely anxious that the house should
profit by the experience it had had upon this subject.
Many years had elapsed since he first attempted to impress
upon parliament the great advantage to be derived from
pursuing • liberal policy towards the colonies, and
allowing them to manage their own affiirs without the in-
terference of Downing-street. Ile remembered, however,
that when he advocated reform in Canada, be nail those wh•
followed him were denounced as little better than rebels, but
he could always bear wi:b undeserved abuse,and it was &mat-
ter of great gratification to him to see the house coming round
to his views of colonial policy. (Hear, hear.) The great
question which had been raised iu the course of the debate
' was that of transportation. Now he had been always an
advocate for removing criminals from the scene of their
criminality, and so far he was favourable to a system of
transportation. That system he contended had not failed
through any faults of its own but from the hod conduct of
the government in the colonies, where there had been
nothing but wavering rules and regulations which never
could be properly understood and observed. (Hear, hear.)
Last year he divided the house, and he was in • small mi-
nority, but he wished the colonists to see that there were
some who supported their cause, and he was in possession
of the thanks of the assembly for the course ho took. The
noble lord (Lord J. Russell) we not present, but he might
say of him that no one bad better expressed the prioeiples
on which colonies should be governed, but his conduct had
not always been consistent with his principles. Ile trusted
that the hon. gentleman the Under-Secretary for the Colo-
nies, would consider that when one legislature after another
continued to complain of the (mother country, there was
something wrong.
The motion was then agreed to.
JEWISH DISABILITIES.

Lord J. RUSSELL then rose on his motion for a com-
mittee of the whole house to take iuto conside ration cer-
tain civil disabilities affecting the Jews. lie said he
trusted his hon. friend the member for the University of
Oxford would not o',ject to his going into committee. It
was usual in matters of this kind to allow members bring-
ing forward measures to go into committee at once.
Sir R. INGLIS said he had a strong objection, became
he felt that it was the concession of the first step, and
therefore be was not prepared to allow it. Ile was not pre-
pared to allow his noble friend to advance one step.
Lord J. RUSSELL—The hon. gentleman the member for
the University
uews
was allowed
xi
tf oiridnteol aebv,
esai ng
necessary
taken
aj, et
me tiendseh
ott
hourda r
statyee
at ht
the
coagnauotursornee wtohhfilitchhge proposal that I have to make before the house
resolves itself into committee. In so doing I shall state in
the first place that it would have been more aereeable to
me to have acted according to the view which I explained
to my constituents, if I could have brought forward at this
time a proposal with regard to the mode in which we take
the oaths in this house, before being entitled to sit in
this house. I have stated to my constituent* that I think
chat the oath which we take ought to be one simple oath
of all religionists, and that we ought not to be entangled
by various provisions made for persons of ditlerent religious
persuasions, that it should not be necessary for a protestant
to swear one thing and a Roman catholic another, and for
both to avow certain propositions with regard to a person
calling himself the successor of James 11., in regard to
whom we need trouble ourselves very little now. (Laugh.
ter.) But, air, I am aware, and if I was not aware,
I should have been convinced of the fact by
the discussion of yesterday and the previous day, that
I could hardly propose to alter the law with
regard to Roman catholic' without raising discussions with
regard to the established church of Ireland, with regard to
the intentions of Roman catholic', and thus producing a
great deal of heat and controversy upon a question which
is not the immediate question that I propose at this time to
bring before the house. That which I wish to do, that
which I propose to myself by this measure, by this separate
measure, is so far to complete tke edifice of religious
liberty as to allow to the Jewish subjects of her Majesty the
same enjoyment of the rights and privileges of British sub-
jects as are at present enjoyed by the protestant dissenter
and by the Roman cat holies. Now, on former occasions when
I have brought forward this question, I have stated that
the insertion of the words, " on the true faith of a Chris-
tian " in the oath of abjuration, are the words, and the only
words, which prevent a Jew from sitting in this house, and
that those words were inserted with no such purpose, and
with a view to no such consequences—(hear)—but that they
were introduced for the purpose of excluding certain Roman
catholic', who at that time it was thought necessary to dis-
tinguish from other Roman catholics,—one portion of them
being bent ou dethroning the sovereign—on dethroning
Elizabeth or James 1., and the other portion being loyal to the
crown, and to the institutions of the country.
(Hear, hear, hear.) This is the mere apparent be-
cause in the time of the commonwealth an oath was in-
troduced wherein persons declared their adherence to the
Old and New Testaments, and they declared themselves
Christians, and I believe they renounced popery and pre-
lacy by that declaration. They made a declaration that
they were Christians. That was intended by the common-
wealth to be a religious oath and a rest of faith. But on
the restoration of monarchy that oath was not persisted
in, that oath was entirely disused and laid aside, and from
that time to the present time no oath has been introduced
with a view to make the profession of religious faith aground
for exclusion from parliament. I contend that it was in
1830, for the first time, that this special ground of religious
faith was urged, that the principle of religious persecution
was employed in parliament, alter two centuries in which
it had been abandoned. Those who had seen the disabili-
ties of the Roman catholic. and the protestant dissenters
I removed naturally thought that the time was come for re-
moving the disabilities of the Jews ; and in April, 1830,
Mr. Robert Grant introduced this question to the house,
and he based it on the great principle that religious doctrine
was not a sufficient ground fur depriving a man of the
privileges of a British subject. (Cheers.) And that,
sir, is the question to argue. All those temporal
disqualifications, founded upon special ground', of
Roman catholic" and of dissenters, have been swept
away. With regard to the Jews, no such dangers, no such
ineonveniencee, no such obstacles can ever be pretended.
(Cheers.) It is on the broad ground that men on account
of their religious faith are to be disqualified—that because
men believe in the Old Testament, and do not believe its
the New, that their disqualifications are to be now main-
tained. (Cheers.) That is the question. For what we
believe to be the error of their faith we are to deprive men
of political power and of civil privileges. (Hear.) It is said
that Jews are not British subjects like ourselves, that they
are a separate nation, and that as such we canaot admit
them to the privileges of British subjects. But what is the
fact ? It is that they could take their seats in this house as
British subjects by the very force of the proposition. Being
British subjects, they perform all the duties of British sub-
jects, and the term " alien " is in no way applicable to them.
If you say they are descended from persons settled
I in ether nations, and that therefore they are no
attached to this country, why you say that which
would apply to many persona whom you admit
without scruple. One question of national character
I may say that there are many families in this country
descended from those who were driven over from France
at the time of the revocation of the edict of Nantes
and at other periods of religious persecution from other
countries, and whose descendants enjoy all the privileges of
British subjects. We have had arguments with regard to the
Roman catholic' and the protestant dissenters, intended to
show that they would not fulfil all the duties which you
desired they would perform in maintaining the constitution
in church and state; but with regard to the Jews, hardly
anybody will venture upon that. In the first place, their
numbers would be so exceedingly few as to make it very
unwise in them to attempt to injure our constitution. But
i then it is well known that the Jews are perfectly satisfied
Ito maintain their faith, without attempting to convert
' others, or to acquire any supremacy in the legislation.
(Hear, hear.) It is well known that, retaining most rigidly
their religion, they do not attempt to make that religion
prevail, and that the last thing they would think of would be
; to enter into any eaeal or combination for the purpose
of injuring your Med and religious liberty. (Cheers.)
With respect, then, to that last question no man can deny
that although the Jews are not many amongst us—some
30,000 or 40,000, in fact—yet they are known in their social
relations as men of great charity, as men always ready to
help when any act of charity Is to be performed ; and it is
well known that there are no people that have more quietly
and unostentatiously performed their civil duties to the
state. I have always said it is no matter of
indifference whether a Christian character should
; or should not preval in the houses of parlia-
ment. I have always said that religion has no business
apart from the business of life—certainly not apart or sepa-
rate from the business of the legislature—but when I say
this, I mean that spirit to which I have alluded. But when,
instead of that spirit of unity, you have nothing but diver-
sity of religious opinion—when, instead of the bond of
peace, you have nothing but contention—when, instead of
righteousness of lite' you have such men es Wilkes intro-
duced into this house—l say, what is the benefit of this
oath, and in what way does that oath secure the Christian
character of your legislature ? (Loud cheers.) Let us,
then, not attempt to found our Christianity upon so flimsy
and so worthleas a security. (Hear, hear.) If,
as I trust is the case, the Christian character
prevails more now than it did a century efus
if it prevails more in the nation and more in the legate-
tore—it is not because you maintain this oath, but it has
been brought about by a greater attention to our religious
duties and by a better inculcation of Christian doctrines.

(Chan,) liely upon this—tough you may have two or
tyres person of the Jewish faith in your mouse or Cm_
depend upon it that the house will bear the charac-
ter of • legislature far more truly than when it had • Gib-
hoc as MIS of its ornaments. (Cheers.) And, if that is '
the case. 1 ask you to do away with this remaining perse-
„awe, with this remaining disqualification ; and to say
that Jour door shall be open to men of the Jewish faith. to
beaoh subjects, to men upon whose loyalty you can rely,
you
wt, of whose co-operation you will he glad ; and when
hue so done, you can then with a clear conscience
hate vet other nations may do, we will hold aloft
-the principle of religious liberty, and we will grant that
liberty to men who dicier from us in religious oninions."
Lik you to agree to go into committee upon this subject.
ask you to take away this last disqualification ; and then
Ton may my truly, tint having for political reasons done
away with those other disqualifications, you have done
away with this disqualification solely upon the ground of
th and juseica ; that you had no other ground to go
spun; and upon that truth and justice you will found a
truly Christian character. (Loud cheers.)
Sir It. INGLIS, before endeavouring to answer the
speech of the noble lord, begged to state why he ob.
jected to that speech being delivered to Mr. Wilson
Vanes. The noble loni seemed to regard it as some
advantage to have one step gained in the progress of
his measure; but, if it was a gain to him, it must be an
iirory to those who were opposed to him. (Hear, hear.)
(t refute it was that he (Sir R. Inglis) could not be one tee
up, n a gate to enable the noble lord to go into that which
he (the non. baronet) regarded as • sacred ruelosure.
(Ch‘en ) The mule lord must break down the banier, if
he could—and Gel forbid that he should !—but it should
see ke by any act of hi. (the hon. baronet's) that his course
should be mode easier. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord had
tithed why, in the present !nstance, they should refuse to
him that which had been pet mined to Mr. Hobert Grant in
18e10? Pos-ibly, it was a wrong step which Mr. Robert
Groot had been prepared to tole; they were not region-
sibic ova for what was done wrong then ; but they were
Wiernsible fur the wrung they continued to do. (Hear,
hear.) The Get, however, was, that the very
maw which he (the boo. garonet) wee pre-
pared now to take was that which he took
Nome ti'e years ago. In 1847, when the noble lord pro
mesa the same curse:he (Sir IL Inglis) felt it his duty to
ref.+, as seer see his iudividual vote was concerned, the per-
ms-won which was now asked. He said then, as he 'aid
halt &Ivor ago, that he believed the course upon which the
noble lord had iuvited the house to enter was one hostile to
the civil and religious itinerate of the country. (ob.) He
believed it to be also hostile to every proceeding in this
house. The noble lord had made a moat happy and unwe-
aned assumption, as the vary foundation of his speech,
namely, that he was the advocate of truth and justioe, and
that all who opposed him were mere bigots, sad the disci-
ples of as ebsub to system. (Hear, hear.) His (Sir R.
loglis'i) proposition was direct., the reverse. The noble
tort seemed to treat power as the inherent right of man,
and that those woo resisted its extension to any one were
bound to give a special mann fur it. (Hear, hear.)
Now his (the hocuurable baronet's) argument was,
that power was a trust which the state might
delegate to thou whom it thought fit for the exercise of
that trust; but that it was the inherent right of no man.
Hit were, then all the restrictions which they had im-
pmel with regard to property, age, or sex, were utterly un-
just.tiable. The noble lord would nut let them go back to
.• Vayria Clearta, but there bad never been • period in
which as oath bad been administered to the recipient of
au, whatever might have bee. its ferns, which could have
beta taken by a member of the Jewish persuasion. (Hear,
hear.) Whether the noble lord were right or wrong with
regard to his dote of 1606, there was no man who could
delay that the oaths bad always been administered upon
same Christian emblem or other—generally, he (Sir R.
lulu) believed, upon the open gospel ; and no person
could be admitted to any office or authority of the very
lowest degree, without some Christian sanction. (Hear
hear.) The pious Jews bad admitted, may, they had
touted, that they were a separate people. It might be a
matter of convenience to admit them to oflice, but that
could not destroy their absolute and inherent character of
being a separate nation—a nation separated from the world
for 1800 years, and to be separated perhaps for a period io-
Calculably longer—but at all events separated as
far as their highest aspirations were concerned.
(Hear, hear.) He (Sir Robert Inglis) had re-
ceived • pamphlet, sent him, no doubt, in his cha-
racter as a member of parliament (for in no other capacity
could he have received it), in which the author attempted
to prove that England was not • Christian country. Now,
though he admitted that we had proved ourselves grossly
unworthy of cur calling, he could not say that the great
body of the people of England had forfeited their right to
be considered a Christian nation. Nobody could say that
this was a popular question. He believed that he was mot
resisting any rightful claim; but at ell events he felt confi-
dent that he was opposing no concession that would be
grateful to the public at large. On the contrary, ho be-
haved that the WWl* he was taking would soda? see
im-
sfew body of his fellow.countrymen. (Cheers.)
bed been made by the nobles lord to Gibbon sad Wass.
They were men who erred from their own wicked amil
von nature, but they were not persona who, so
ssassfen-
tins principles, blasphemed the best and highest mysteries
ct our faith. It had been said that hypocrisy was the
bump which vice paid to virtue ; and the (atonal pro-
genies of Christianity made by these men, bad as it was
umpired with genuine religion, was better than avoved
misbelief. Better accruealed infidel than an open blasphemer.
He did not believe that this wee the "last remnant of per-
secution." There were other subjects still remaining who
were neither Christians nor Jews, whom they might be
called on to admit within the walls of parliament. The
British dominions unstained a great number of Mathieu-
dam. (Hear, hear.) That sheer showed him that there
were many ready to go farther than the admission of the
Jews. (Hear, hear.) If so what became of the argument
that the Jews wen few in number, and that there was
therefore, no danger to he apprehended for the Christie;
character of the legislature? (Hear, hear.) Did they be-
lieve that they would promote the spiritual and temporal
interests of the people of England by such • concession ? He
did not believe that the people of England wen yet pre-
pared to admit either the heathen or the M into
parliament. He believed that they would destroy the pro-
testant character of the house—that was pose (laughter)
—that they must destroy the Chnstian character
of the legislature and of the depositaries of power
by them stosioessioaa, and for these reasons he woald
=the motion which the noble lend bad now, he he-
, motion
for the sixth time, brought before the house. He
trusted that by a great reaction on the part of the people of
this country, sad wader • naetiea than say in that
house, this fatal 0411/113. Mik:tilitil;et be averted. (Hear.)
Sir IL PEEL, in an emergent address, denied that the
cue oh the Jews involved the question of civil and religious
liberty, and he would not consent to any form of oath
which did not include the Christian form. It was not alto-
gether a religious question; the objections were partly
founded upon the bad chanicter which the Jews bore in the
eustry, when they were found on all aides inciting to
coma and receiving stolen goods. He did sot even exclude
from his sendemaation the family of the pollens= for
whose especial manatee the present motion was made,
whol ad dame istsch,by the employment of their capital, to
destroy civil and refigiose liberty oo the cmatisent. He
save his determined resistance to the bill.
Vincent Homes sad Mr. Nan= respectively sup-
paned and opposed the modem.
Lied DRUMLANItIO ansuncod his convenion to the
lame of the Jews amidst busied applause verging upon
Wien
Mr WIGRAM opposed the moans both on political sad
iis"
. DIUDTadBEYMOUR supported the motion, em the
riMli that the beet way toChristianise the Jews wee to
win noes inm the buss. _

Woad SlWHORloppoor. d the mastics epee every pee-
gresed. sod with army mriety et Investire.
A Names all fora &Metes at this plat did not prevent
Mr. M. O'CONNELL treat insistiag open beisg heard.
Ms lea. member did sot lad many lateens, and ea a
Maim beim peered the steam was tarried by 21,4 to 105.
TM meek was hailed with lend sheers.
Oa ear rebate to the gallery, we Aimed the beam in ems-
Maar, and the chairman about to put the remistios amidst
peat theeries, couater-ehmriarb sad marasiea. What
Wait wai mitered,
Da CHAIRMAN pat the resolatiee, " Tbat it is ez-
plant to seesider the Mail disebilities at mama affecting
hii ligiart's subjects dale &WY jeseamma with a view
le their tassel, is lihe maneet eed with lih:i ahoilitim•
• them leswi dke reaming the disabilities et her Ma.
Jaya Emma emboli* sehjecte."
zr quake was this put, sad the eheirmaa dederimg
langthe " Ayes" bad it, there were lead miss Air a am-
ain.

X,. WALPOLE said that the week* hayfag bees put
be wield be in ardor is eddresearag the hems ; bat as them
Yen se may seer members is the house it would be eon-
warm to say that it the divides me set
litheT the " eyes" es the " sees" beirag give:l=64A:
Mid take pace, sad es them had bees a diiisiss es the
aria gamma it would be annesessary and vaporises. to
like s &bum on this question. (Hews Burl
The teeolatioe was this agreed to, the Mum resumed,
faith, ?isolation reported.
NEW TRIALS IN CRIMINAL CASES.
Et T. BUTT obtained kayo to trios in a bill to maks
prepay for the greeting of new trials in criminal cams.
Ilts same hon. gentleman postponed his motion for a
West tommittee to inquiry into the proceedings at the Cork
"miss mil after the committee on that election had
MirltlrlTTEß ON THE IRISH TENANT RIGHT
BILLS.
at I. TOUNG maid "that the select committee as the
Lame Powers (Ireland); Landlord and Tenant (Ireland);
Tasat Right (Ireleat); and Tenants Compensation (In-
Leos) Bills, do consist of thirty exemben John
Viseount Palmerston, Mr. She*, Lord Nees, Mr.
Lem, Sir Robert Fergus., Mr. Kirk, Mr. Henry Her-
bert, Mr. Italie, Mr. John Fitzgerald, Mr. Fagan, Mr._Robert Phill more, Mr. James Sadleir, Viscount Mosel.,
~bi% Walpole, Colonel Oreeille, Mr. Napier, Mr. Daffy, Mr.
ta"fte, Mr. Bright, Mr. Drummond, Mr. Mackenzie,
rr. ImbutP. Mr. Vernon, Mr. Bouterre, Mr. P011ard-
...114W% Mr. Fortran', Lord Claud 7,llamiltes, Mr.
"b4lotide, and Pk. Grogan."
Ana some diseusaion, the debate was adjourned till
11:141,

BILL FOR THE DISPOSAL OF EXCISE
POPERTY.
Er. WILSON obtained leave to bring in a bill to enable
.n 11118400,16 of Inland Revenue to dispose of certain
Wien, is the City of London.
ELECTION PETITION RECOONISANCES
COMMITTEE.
*AL GIBSON nominated the select committee om

election pttition recognisant's :—Mr. M. Gibsoa, Lord J.
Russell, Mr. Phino, Mr. Walpole, Sir F. Thesiger, Mr. S.
Worthy, and Ids. Gotslbws.
Aimed to.
COUNTY POLLS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Mr. ELLIOT obtained leave to bring in a bill to limit
the time of polling at *minty elections in Scotland to one
day, and to provide for the increase or alteration in the
number of polling places as now flied.
CRIMINAL AND DESTITUTE CHILDREN
COMMITTEE.
Mr. BAINES moved that Viscount Drualanrig and Mr.
John Ball be added to the Criminal and Destitute Children
committait.

Agreed to.
COMMITTEE ON THE OFFICE OF SPEAKER.
Bir R. H. INGLIS nominated the committee on the
office of Speaker:—Sir Robert Harry Inglis, Lord John
Russell, Mr. Disraeli, Sir George Grey. Mr. Ooulburn, Mr.
Edward Ellice, Mr. Wilaoe Patten. Mr. Thomas fishing-
ton Macaulay, Mr. Walpole, Mr. Hume, Mr. Hamilton,
Mr. Brozman, Mr. Fresbfield, Mr. Baines, and Sir Frederic
Thesiger.
Agreed to.
MAYNOOTH.
It will be remembered that the hoer of six having ar-
rived, while the division on Mr. Bpooner's motion was pro-
ceeding on Wednesday, no decision was come to on Mr.
Bcholefield's amendment. On the order of the day being
read for the further consideration of the subject,
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD fixed Wednesday next, and re-
marked that as he understood there was to be some further
discussion, he would venture to suggest that hie amendment
should be considered as a substantive motion.
Agreed to.
The house then roe at 10 minutes after one o'clock.
Patits.—Mr. Pigott paired off in favour of Mr. Spooner's
motion with the Right lion. T. B. Macaulay. The Lord
Mayor paired in favour of Mr. Spooner's motion with Lord
Ernest Bruce. Mr. Thomas Mills paired in favour of Mr.
Spanner's motion, with Mr. Moffatt against.
SUUT OCT.—Mr. West was accidentally shut out at the
division oa Mr. Bpooner's motion, and prevented voting
in the minority. Mr. Aich was also abut out of the divi•
non on the Jew Bill.

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