The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-06 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, MAY 6, 1853.

There had been, and there were now, investigations going
on with regard to charges affecting gentlemen on the oppo-
site side of the house ; and, speaking from his enervation
during the last ten years, he did not believe an hon. gen-
tleman who made a statement of this kind could be said
!lava stated that which was incense& (Laughter.) TM
house keen very well that Irish members took something
like ea Oriental latitude—(great laughter)—and that Um
language used by them was often of a very figurative do-
scription—(renewed laughter)—and he was inclined to thick
that the honourable member (Hr. Duffy) had been guilty
in that respect that evening. He hoped he would state,
however, that he hadno wish to do anything disorderly rr
contrary to the rules of the house. IN regretted that the
words had been used in such a broad sense; but he 'nun
remind the committee that the hon. member had not charged
Irish members with having succumbed to thie temptation.
(Great laughter.) An boa. member near him objected to
Me statement that Irish members had been operated upon.
(Laughter) Erery one knew, however, that all operations
did not succeed. (Laughter.) He had heard general accu-
sations of this kiad over and over again during the last ten
ran, and thought it would be unworthy of the govern-
Mont to take any steps with regard to this one.
Mr. J. BALL said it was not for him to judge how far
Mat house should tolerate imputations of corruption, but
es an independent Irish member he must make an effort to
protect himself. The statement of the bon. member he
took to be this—that certain Irish members had been in-
clined by pecuniary offers—(No, no)—or something of that
tied. Unless that allegation wen withdrawn he should
persist in his minion.
Lard J. RUSSELL—The right hon. gentleman the
member for Buckinghamshire was perfectly right when he
said that a government is at all times open to charges of
misnivernment and corruption, and to any other charge
which any hon. gentleman may wish to make. But it ap•
pears to me that it is not only the government and members
of the government who may fairly take offence at
words used in debate. In this cue an Irish member
has preferred a charge against Irish members of having
been practised upon by the government. Now, it appears
to me that there are three cases in which an hon. member
may use such words as these. One case is that supposed by
my noble friend. In the heat of debate, words which are
not well-founded and justifiable in themselves may fall
from an hon. member, and afterwards be retracted. That
it appears, is not the case of the hon. gentleman, for he
will not retract what he has said. In another can, the
course pursued is perfectly justifiable. A member ;tares
that which he believes he can prove, and says he is rusty Ile
make it the subject of inquiry under specific charges. Pm,
if I understand that to be the course of tio hrs.
gentleman, I beg that his charges may be tarlie.
(Cheers.) Hitherto, he has only said that he
is ready to name. If he means that he will make a charge
against the government of having attempted to corrupt an
bon. member, and name the hon. member open whom the
attempt was made, let the charge be preferred, and let the
matter be inquired into. (Cheers.) There is a third way
in which these charges are sometimes made ; I refer to the
ease in which an hon. gentleman having used words affect-
ing the honour and integrity of hon. members of this
house, neither brings forward proofs to substantiate his
charge, nor has the manliness to retract it. (Great cheering.)
Now, sir, unles. I hear from the hon. gentleman that he is
reedy not only to name, but to bring forward charges
against hon. members and against the government, which
can be made the suljit A of substantial inquiry, I must rest
in the last conclusion. (Loud cheers.)
The CHAIRMAN then put the question that the words
L be taken down, which was carried without a division.

The house then resumed, and the Chairman reported to
the Speaker the words used by the hon. member for New
Ross. _ _

The SPEAKER said that it had been reported to him
by the Chairman, that the words in question had been
used, and he wished to know whether the hon. member
wished to explain or retract them.
Mr. DUFFY said he had already explained generally,
in the absence of the Speaker, and being unacquainted
with the forma the house, he hoped the Speaker would
tell him what course he was expected to take. (A laugh.)
The SPEAKER said it having been reported to him that
the hon. member had used an expression which wu offen-
sive to a great number of members, and the committee
I having ordered the words to be taken down, he now called
upon the hon. member either to explain the words or to
retract them: if he did not do so, he must withdraw, and
it would then be for the house to say what course it should
pursue.
Mr. DUFFY said it would be in the recollection of the
house that the statement which ho bad made already was
this, that though he had been but a short time in the
house, he believed ho had observed corruption practised
to influence the votes of Irish members. He was now
called on for an explanation. If they thought proper to
give him a committee, he would lay before that committee
the facts which had influenced his mind in coming to that
coaclusion. (Hear, hear.) It did not appear to hint rea-
sonable to expect that he should enter in a hurried manner
into a statement of farts, but this he would say, that for the
statement he had made, he believed he had substantive
grounds, and this being so, all be could do was to offer such
proofs as be could when an opportunity of doing so was
afforded tohim. He repeated that he did not think it
would be quite reasonable to call upon him to do so then.
(Hear.)
There were then loud cries of "withdraw" amidst which
Mr. Duffy left the house.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that this being a charge against
the government he did not think it became him as a mem-
ber of the government to interfere. He hoped that some
experienced member of the house would suggest the course
proper to be pursued.
Mr. DISRAELI said he wished to act impartially in the
matter. He did not think they should appoint a committee
to inquire into a matter of so grave • character and on so
vague a statement. (Hear, hear.) At the same time he
thought that statement sufficiently substantial, not to
be treated with contempt. He thought that the
honourable member should be summoned to his
seat, and be called on by the Speaker to name
the individtud—(cheers)—on whom he supposed the
government had exercised a corrupt influence. Ho did not
think the hon. member could be expected to enter into
minute details, but if he would mention the names of the
members on whom the government had practised corrupt
influences, the next step would be to appoint a com-
mittee. (Rear, hear.)
Mr. J. S. WORTLEY was anxious that the bon. mem-
ber for New Roes should take some means to relieve
the house from this difficulty. (Hear, hear.) In the excited
state of the house it would perhaps not be proper to call for
a decision; but, on the other band, he thought the house
was bound to require that at a fitting time the hon. member
should either retract the expressions he had used, apologise
to the house for the offence he had given, or in a manly,
bold, and constitutional manner, himself move for a com
mittee. Under all the circumstances he thought the better
mono would be to adjourn the case to this day, and in the
mataMine the Speaker could consult the precedents bearing
on ths mos.
Mr. BRIGHT seconded the motion.
Mr. MOORE hoped that the house would deal justly with
the hon. member for New Ross and give him • reasonable
time either to retract or substantiate his amps.
Mr. KIRK said that as one of the telt sionhon who
voted with the government, and to whom siosams
motives were attributed, he hoped the qualm sw=ll
set at rest at once. He was anxious that the feNtof
the debate should not go to Ireland in au u auss,
Whatever wee to be done should be date at as M Pima)
An Hox. Manxman said that be suaddsrod the egos.
sins of the boa. member for New ROD in in both oilhadoe
mad insulin. He should therefore genii *OW
most, and este tar the preposition ei MEI bee MEW
bee for B
Mr. BRIG mid the words of the hem ammem
who had Jost spokes sillarded the very stringed sagmasus
in hvour of adjournment. Hs had said that the woods ef
the hon. member for New Ross MN insulting and siegthe
to ht's, and while ha (Mr. Brigbi did not blame Las dire
being ittlNM uodir he dac=sum Mill the elewls.
of sash in 'Oaks showed bow imst it lie at
that mama to sell the his. amber tor New Roes to his
pleas sod call sa him to sabstandsto his sharpie. The
hosonsobie member had hid dm beam that he did
not mesa to Name, sod Net being the ma
there was ao amemity toldessisehasty mums.
He (Mr. BrW
_thought they shoold tho miss of
the hos. and lemma membar for Hots. melee at heed
bias, ha bellavoil that the boa. member tar New Roos was
acting soder a debookm, bat still it would he below the dig-
nity of the Mess to mhos adjonsumeat to 4 Veto& this
day. The question hoe slight be coolly airwesset, sod he
was not without hops that the hon. member for New Rom,
to
=ad soopt se the matter—(a laugh)—would give so si-
hi ma preclude the nocessity
f hoalm pressohap. Moor.
as
' Mr. /CULLY said that tho her. umber for New Rae
' had so tam the advice of the amble lard, nor the sugges-
tion of the hem salmbsr tor Meath. Therefore as Gas of
the moralism agates' by the bom soomboys charge, he
hoped the matter wadi be oiled at ewes.
Mr. CONOLLY submitted that the tonne indicated by
the hon. and learned Millelt Kr. B. Wortley) was the
most advisable. (The bus. made some further
observation, but the issemott sails for a division prevented
what he said beim! hosed inahthe:Cl)
Lord J. RUSSELL had stated that he thought it
unbecoming in him, loader the tanoss, to point out
the course which ha might coarider the house ought to
take. Two courses had been suggested ; the one by the
right hon. member for Buckinghamshire, the other by the
hon. and learned recorder. Ths right hon. gentleman op-
posite suggested that certain names should be given, and
that a committee should:be appointed to inquire ante the
truth of the charges. Now he did not think that would be
the proper course, inasmuch as it would expose those meat-
bets to imputations they ought not to bear; there ought to
be some kind of charge defined against the passe proposed
to be . named, before they. took that step—to
appoint a committee "to inquire into the con-
duct of certain member," would be most unfair.
The proposal of the hon. and learned Recorder to postpone
the debate till to-day he thought would be the better course,
which would give time for consideration.
Mr. J. BALL concurred in the suggestion for postpone-
ment.
Mr. Serjeant SEEK was not surprised that offence was
taken at the words used by the hon. member for New Roes,
at the same time he did not understand them, nor did he
think other hon. members would understand them to-
morrow, in the offensive sense in which they had been taken.
(Oh, oh!) His hon. friend did not mean to infer that there
was anything like pecuniary corruption—(oh,
hut there might be corruption other than 'bv pe.
euniary bribery. It would be corruptioe, f( any
member gave or obtained an office as the pries of political
support, But their was nothing in which 'nix hon. friend
said that imputed personal dishonour. (Hear, hear.) It
! should be recollected that his bon, frivld was one of aparty