The Express.
London, England, 1847-07-03 00:00:00

interests were involved, but a protection also to
the minister who, by his presence in parliament,
would he enabled to stifle misrepresentations at their birth.
He considered the sbsence of individual responsibility
to be one of the causes of the partial failure of the Poor-
law Amendment Act. Although he wu aware of the
difficulties arising from the connexion of the poor-law ad-
ministration directly as a department of the government, yet
he must say that the present arrangement was unsatisfactory
beceure the responsibilities were partly shared by the Home
Secretary, and partly by the government, and without
n
having a respanole minister to answer attacks, they were
all directed nominally at the commissioners, but virtually
at the government. On the whole, be confessed that, not
without great doubt and coesidcrable hesitation, he
leaned to the impression that it was desirable to connect the
heads of the poor-law department more closely with the
government then they were at present. On these grounds,
he came to a different conclusion to that of his noble and
learned friend, and in the choice of difficulties, he thought
the least was to adopt the proposition of her Majesty's
government.
Lord COLCHESTER thought all necessity for the bill
might be removed, if a short act was introduced to establish
as law the rules, orders, and regulations which had been
framed during an experience of twelve years of the poor-law
act, and to confirm the commissioners merely as inspectors, to
superintend the carrying out those orders.
The Earl of ST. GERMANS approved of the appoint-
ment of a commissioner to sit in parliament, and he thought
it would also be desirable that hereafter there should be a
commissioner resident in Dublin and in Edinburgh. The
noble earl made some further observations which were
jeans tibia in the gallery.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, when bills relating
to Ireland and S:otland came before parliament for amend-
ing the poor-laws, the suggestion of the noble earl would be
worthy of consideration ; and he would not press the third
reading of his bill now before their lordships until the gene-
ral suggestions of the noble earl had been taken into con-
dderation.
The house then went into committee on the bill.
Lord STANLEY did not intend to propose any amend-
ments, but he doubted the utility of appointing honorary
commissioners under the bill; they would resemble the
commissioners of the board of control, who were inefficient
in consequence of their attendance not being compulsory.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH made some observations
which were not audible in the gallery.
The Duke of RICHMOND observed that it would be
better to make the words of the claim which had reference
to the secretary of state more general, so that any secretary
of state, instead of the secretary
.for the home department
alone, might be one of the commissioners.
On clause 9 being read,
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH objected to the appoint-'
meet of two parliamentary officers. The only reason he
could think of for such a course was, that as it was extremely
improbable that both would get seats in parliament, they
might be secure of one. (A laugh.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said it might so happen
that the president of the board might have a seat in their
lordships' house, and if BS, it would be advisable that the
secretary should have a seat in the other house. (Hear.)
The clause was then agreed to.

On clause 10,
Lord STANLEY objected that, making the employments
under the present law cease and determine immediately, as
this clause proposed to do, was an exceedingly harsh mea-
sure, which he hoped would not be persevered in.
Earl GREY said that such was absolutely necessary be-
fore the appointments under the new law could be made.
Lord REDESDALE supported the view taken by Lord
Stanley, and moved an amendment in the clause to that
effect ; upon which
Their lordships divided—For the clause
For the amendment ll-2
The remaining clauses of the bill were agreed to, excepting
clause 23, providing that married couples above GO years of
age should not be separated in the workhouse, which was
struck out.
The Duke of RICHMOND moved a clause to the effect
that when the board of guardians did not appoint a cm-
mittee to visit the workhouse, and see that the poor were
well treated, it should be imperative on the poor-law com-
missioners to appoint visitors, to be paid out of the union.
After a conversation the clause was withdrawn and the
bill ordered to be reported ; the house resumed, and was
adjourned, at a quarter to ten, to this day (Saturday.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—Fituomr, JULY 2.
The SPEAKER took the chair at 12 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
TTURD READlNOS.—Nbuteheater. Sheffield. and Lincolmtthe
Railway (Supply of Surplus Waterto Manchester, SaVent, awl litock.
port) ; Portsmouth Paving, Lighting, and Improvement ; Taunton
Improvement scat >Lrket ; Bills.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
FIRST READING.—London-bridge Approaches Fund Bill.
SECOND READING.—Compensation for Damages (Ireland).
REPORT.—Railways Ireland (No. 2) Bill.
COMMITTEES.—Drainage of Lands ;Ireland); Shannon Naviga-
tion; Insolvent Debtors; Mussel Fisheries (Scotland) Bills.
THIRD READINGS.—Tarnpthe Roads (South Wales); Holyhead
Harbour; Seduction and Prostitution Supra-aeon; Bills.
COMMERCIAL RELATIONS WITH PRUSSIA.
On the order of the day for the second reading of the
Navigation Bill (No. 2),
Lord G. BEN f INCK rose to put a question to the noble
lord the Secretary for Foreign Again, of which he had given
notice. On 4th 3une lasta paragraph appeared in the Globe
newspaper to this effect.—" A Berlin journal says, that the
Prussian government has received despatches from the Eng-
lish cabinet, announcing that if the Zollverein persist in not
renewing the treaty of commerce end navigation with England
end introducing a system of differential duties, the English
government will be itself compelled to use reprisals." The
journal in which the paragraph appeared was the Prussian
Stales Gautee, the official organ of the government. It had
therefore the semblance of truth and of an official
character. He wished, therefore, to ask the noble lord
whether he would threaten Prussia with retaliatory men.
cures if she persisted in retaining protecting duties and
taking care of her own interests to the prejudice of the in-
dustry of this country
Viscount PALMERSTON said that he had seen the rem-
graph in question, and it was entirely incorrect. By a treaty
made in 1841, between England and Prussia, the prude° of
the navigation system was much modifiei. By that treaty
certain ports on the Elbe and the Meese, which were the
naural outleta of certain inland Germtn states, re to
bet considered as the ports of those states, though they
were not in their territory ; and the vessels of those
states being members of the Zollverein would be ad-
mitted into this country on the same terms as our
ships. That privilege was granted in return for certain
privileges the vessels of this country enjoyed in Prussian
porta, which were not then granted for the fleet time, but
which had been adopted under the more liberal navigation
system of Prussia. That treaty might be put an end to at
the close of this year, by a notice given on Ist July. The
Prussian government had given that notice, and the treaty
would be at an end at the else of the present year ; seat it
was intimated on the part of Prussia and the Zollverein, of
which Prussia was the diplomatic organ, that they were dis-
satisfied with tine treaty, because it was net founded on a
principle of real reciprocity; that our navigation laws
did not accord to the vowels and commerce of Prus-
sia and the Zollverein, that which our 'velem received in
the states and parts of the Zollverein. It woo further inti-
mated that if Great Britain persisted in her comparatively
restricted navigation system, the states of the Zolverein
would thirds it to be their interest to establish a differential
duty of 20 per cent. on the manufactures and produce of
Great Britain. That was the real state of the case, and no
threat of retaliation bad been made by Great Britain to
compel Prussia to do anything she did not wish, but Prussia
and the Zollverein had intimated that if Great Britain did
not relax her navigation symtem, a differential ditty would be
imposed. An answer had been returned to this communica-
tion, that the treaty of 1841 had been of little advan-
tage to Great Britain, that a very small amount
of tonnage, less than :AO tons, had availed themselves of the
advantages given by Prussia under the new system, and that
tz was a matter of indifference to this country whether the
treaty was continued, or expired. These communications
could not be imid to be cncluded, but there wee no objection
to lay on the table the noticegiven by Prussia for the cessa-
tion of the treaty, and the reply of the British government.
Mr. HUTT begged to put the questions of which he had
given notice, although the first one had been answered by
the speech of the noble lord ; Whether her Majesty's govern-
ment had received an intimation from any of the states north
of Germany that they had in contemplation to impose differ-
ential duties ,et British vessels importing into Germany the
production' of countries other than the possessions of her
Majesty, unless Great Britain would so far abolish her navi-
gation laws es to allow German vessels to import productions
from all parts of the world into the united kingdom; and
whether the noble lord was aware of any negotiations going on
for the purpose of inducing the Haase Towns to unite with
the sta-es of the Zollverein in an arrangement to impose
differential duties on the ships of all nations which did not
accord to German mates the same privileges of navigation
which the German states extend to them ?
Viscount PA.LNIERSTON said the first clueotion was
almost answered by the reply he hod just made to his
noble friend, and the communications in question he would
lay before toe house. With regard to the second question,
it was true that Prossia, as the organ of the Zollverein, had
beeu in communication with the Plante Towns with a view,
as it was understood (there was no official communication on
the subject between Prussia and the Zoliverein, but there
was reason to believe that a person had been sent from Ber-
lin to Hamburg and Bremen), to induce the Hawn Towns to
become members of the Zollverein. There was eo disposi-
tion on the part of Hamburg and Lubeck to join the league,
bat there was in Bremen. That state looked to receive
great advantages from the railway which communicated with
the interior of Germany, and, therefore, there was a greater
disposition on her part to join the league. He was not
aware, however, that the intention of Bremen to accede to
the invitation to join the Zollverein had been expressed.
NAVIGATION LAWS.
Lord J. RUSSELL moved the second reading of the bill
for the renewal of the atumeneion of the navigation laws.
Lord G. BENTINCK said, that the noble lard the first
minister of the crown the other night informed the house,
that if but 500 quarters of corn had been imparted in foreign
veeersis, under the suspension of the navigation laws (not
600,000, LE had been erroneously stated in tile newsp aper++),
he would still have proposed the continuance of this bill MI
Ist Mareh. He (Lord G. Bentiack) might fairly say, that In
this proposal lurked a real intention of repealing the law alto-
. On this ground he thought it was his duty to oppose
Clifillter suspension of the law. The noble lord did lay on
the table a return which purported to give the number of
shi and the cargoes of grain which bid been imported
t5.....d
the suspension of the navigation laws, which it was to
was not given with the intention of snaking out
for the necessity of the repeal of the law. lic (Lord
(1, lienrinek) then gave his reasons for thinking the return
j,,,,,,r, at any rate as regarded Ireland, and he asked for
Illnee._ further explanation i but as yet he had received none except

with regard to 136 ships, and 70,600 tons of produce, in the
port of London. There were, in September last, 17 shifp. of
war in the Tagus to mast the Queen of Portugal, and i four
of them had been lured, they might have been sent
the United States to fetch grain, and they would
to
have imported ea much as those 136 ships mentioned in the
return ; for out of that 136 no lees than 76 were nothing but
i river craft, the lighters and barges of Hanover—the small
craft of the Elba or the Weser, of 65 or 70 tom Even
with regard to the port of Lindon the importation was
scarcely worth consideration. At Christmas last so great
I was the demand for shipping to the United States that
freights rose to 17s. 6d. a quarter for grain and 12s. 63. a barrel
for flour ; but how was the matter now ? By a return which
he had up to May 20, it appeared that at New Orleans
there were 108 ships, and -10 of them were t
lying there
looking in vain for freights, while at New Yoric there
ere
were 37,000 tons of shipping wanting cargoes, but h
were no bur* W bring the torn from the interior,
and the British ships were leaving to seek timber-cargoes
in our North American provinces. At that time there were
dxty ships of large size which left Liverpool for New York
sad New Orleans, seeking grain freights. There could be no
doubt that instead of the freight market being starved for
want of shipping. it was glutted, and the charge of 12s. 61.
Baltic, he a letter from Mr. Court, the secretary to the
Underwriters' Room at Liverpool, which stated 'that on
the 12th of May the first ship had arrived at Cronstadt, and
that there were 926 lying there waiting for cargoes ; that
the loses of shippers to Petersburg would be very great, I
and that the supply at Riga and Petersburg. wait enor-
mute, and out of proportion to the supply of grain." There
had been no return of the number of ships which had come
from the Mediterranean under the suspension of the naviga-
tion laws, but be believed there were not more than one or
two, anethat freights were falling at Constantinople and
Odessa. The necessity, therefore, for the repeal of the
law was done away. The present suspension of the law
lasted until September, and several vessels from the north of
Europe, from Hanover, from the Weser and the Elbe, could
not come here after November, as the rivers were frozen. So
far, therefore, as they were concerned, any further suspen-
sion of the law was inoperative, and was only operative in
that part of the trade which was already glutted with ship-
ping. The question, therefore, now was not whether the nevi-
Ration laws should be suspended, in order to supply a
deficiency of shipping, but u a step to their permanent rsipaL
If the noble lord wished to assist the importation of corn In a
time of need he might have employed the ships of war in the
Tagus, or, as France had done. spared those live steamers
which were cruising off the coast of Portugal to go to the
Gut of Gibraltar, to tow through that passage the ships which
lay there six weeks wind-bound. The- result 111115 that when
these ships arrived in the channel their cargoes were so heated
and stank so much:that they might be smelled a quarter efa
mile off. This would have done far more good than the
suspension of the navigation laws, and would have been not
an injury, but an advantage to the British commercial in•
terests. As the question of the repeal of the navigation
laws was virtually to be dismissed, he would ask the noble
lord how he intended the navy to be manned in future ? For
if the navigation laws were repealed, so as to permit foreign
ships and seamen to compote with thou of England, at least
he should be prepared to do away with the regulations which
now cramped competition on the part of British shipowners.
By the law as it now stood, every British ship must carry an
apprentice for every hundred tons of her burthen, and four
men and a bey. Why was it that the ships of this country
, could not compete with those of the United States ? It
was not, as had been scandalously and untruly stated, because
the captains and mates of our commercial marine were not
superior to all others, but because of the expense of carry-
ing five men to every 100 tons, while American ships carried
only three. By a return moved fur by his hon. and gallant
friend the member for Liverpool, it appeared that in 11346
there came to this country 330 ships from the United States,
of 435,000 tons, manned by 39,000 men, being a trifle over
three men to 100 tons, while British shipping amounting to
1,000,000 tons was manned by 54,600 men, being over five
men to 100 tons. How could the British shipper,
who had
W pay two-tittlis more than those of the United States,
leempete with them? If the navigation laws were re-
pealed, and they permitted ships to carry three men to
every 100 tons, to what an extent would be the diminution
of our commercial marine—the only great security they
had, in case of sudden war, for manning the navy.
In 1812 and 1814, the British navy was manned
by 114,000 ; it was now about 30,000. Where were they to
look for recruiting the navy, unless care was taken that the
commercial marine was manned with surplus crews ? There
were 40 per cent. more men in the British commercial ma-
rine than in that of the United States. There were 200,000
men in the British commercial marine; and was it henceforth
to be manned by 80,000 men less than it was now, and were
the supplies for the navy to be drawn from only 120,000
men? In the French ships there were 8 men to every 100
tons, while in thou of the United States there were only
two-thirds of the number. The British commercial marine
was entitled to protection, and to something like a mo-
nopoly of the carrying trade. So long as
Br theyty
had any regard for the supremacy of Greatt
on the ocean they should take care that nothing
was done which would impair the British commercial
marine. Then, as to the scandalous charges, unfounded in
truth, which had been made against the officers of the British
commercial marine, and in which it was said that they lest
the trade because they could not navigate as well as others.
Now, so far as skilful navigation was concerned, the United
States stood next to our own. lie had a return of the
I number of grain-ships which rime to Great Britain from the
United States between 10th of September and 12th May, and
of the comparative losses and disasters at sea which befel
those of thin;, country and those belonging to the United
States. He acknowledged that those of the United States
were larger in number—there being 296 British ships and
460 American. But what was the amount of disasters?
There had foundered at sea, of grain-laden ships, 3 British
and 21 American ; 3 British and 19 American had put back
into port; 6 British ships hail failed to bring their cargoes safe
into port, while 27 American ships had thrown theirs over-
board. Four British ships had been stranded, while the
number of Americans was twelve. On what ground, there-
fore, could practical men give credence to the evidence given
before the navigation committee, whieh went to show that
the hand of the British pilot had lost its cunning, and that
British seamen had lost their skill, courage, or energy ?
Having made this defence of the British commercial marine,
all that he should do would he to move that this bill lie read
a second time this day three months.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he did not propose to consider—
and he hoped the house would not consider—this question as
one with regard to the maintenance or the repeal of the navi-
gation laws. Whatever might be the merits of those laws,
or whether it was right to mike important changes in them
or to repeal them, was not the question in this bill. With
regard to that part of the speech of the noble lord which
addressed itself to this portion of the subject, he begged to
remind the house that when the committee on the navies-
I
tion laws was appointed he (Lord J. Russell) said that it
wee a question of serious importance to this country, and if I
in consequence of the report of that committee, and the evi.l
deuce which was given before it, there should be an altera-
tion in the navigation laws, the house would have to con. I
sider the burthens of the British shipowner, and to cone
eider the disadvantagee with which he would have
to contend when there were no restrictions on foreign
shipping. But the question now was whether the
present navigation laws should be suspended. Re
thought it was obvious that the navigation laws might
be suspended without at all affecting the principle upon
which those laws were founded. With respect to the very
question of the corn laws, they, during the lest fifty years,
had been frequently suspended ; sometimes for upwards of
six months, sometimes for one year, and sometimes 'or two
years, though both houses of parliament bed declared in
favour of the policy of those very laws. Su it may be cud
with regard to the navigation laws; and he (Lord J.
Russell) was surprised that the noble lord and his friends
should take the course the noble lord proposed at the pre-
sent moment, they having been consenting parties to the
suspension of the corn duties for the same period. The noble
lord, having consented to the suspension of the corn duties,
would be justified in saying that by that temporary suspension
he had surrendered the principle of protection, and that a
return either to a fixed duty or a sliding scale would be
better policy than the continuance of the existing law ; and it
would he a stronger answer to give to such a proposition to
say, Oh, you are precluded, because you consented to the
suspension of the laws during the past year." The same
was the ewe with regard to the navigation laws ; but the
noble lord, basing consented to the suspension of the corn
duties, declared that the navigation laws ought not to be
held in abeyance. For what purpose had the earn laws been
suspended ? Because there MIS an expectation that there
would be a want of food and provisions to supply the people,
and therefore it wee the policy of this country that the ad-
mission of corn should be free. Now if it was right
that corn should be aihnitted free, it was equally right that
freedom should be given to these foreign vessels in which
corn was brought to this country. (Hear, hear.)
Why not say teat, whatever may he the vessel< in which
corn was brought, we will ask no questions as to the country
in which they were built and to which they belong, but,
because they bring the corn and provisions we want, we will
ask no question*, but will admit them free ? (Hear, hear.)
Therefore it appeared to him (Lord J. Russell) that the two
questions stood on precisels similer grounds, and that it was
quite inconsistent fur the noble lord, having agreed, without
a dineiou, to suspend the cern duties, now to raise an objec-
tion to the suspension of the navigation laws. (Hear, hear.)
The noble lord had 'mid truly that he (Lord J. Russell) hail
declared the other day that he was prepared, even though
only 500 quarters of corn had come in under the recent sus.
pension, to argue that the nasigation laws ought to be fur-
ther suspended. He argued thus because he believed the ne
ressities of the country were such that no restriction what-
ever ought to be imposed upon the free admission
of corn. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord had referred
to returns showing the quantity of corn which had
come in, and he had questioned the accuracy of those returns.
He (Loral J. Russell) believed those returns to be correct,
though inquiries had only been made at the ports of London
and Liverpool. With respect to some of the smaller ports of
the United Kingdom, the customs might have made an error
with regard to corn which might have come in oven if the
navigation laws had not been suspended, but as to the total
amount the returns showed tolerably correctly the quantity
that had been introduced. The amount had been brought
by 538 ships, representivg 63,556 tons. The noble lord said
it would have been better, instead of suspending the naviga.
tion laws, to have sent four line-of-battle ships that were
lying is the Tagus to bring corn home from foreign
stations. That eLestion he (Lord John Remelt) had
argued at the commencement of the present mo-
tion, and, he believed, had sesisfied an honourable
member who brought forward u motion on the subject, that
the amount of the tonnage of those line of-battle ships would
be hie anion for the purpose; secondly, that it would have
taken too much time to have fitted them fur the reception of
cargoes of grain; in the third place, it would take them
from the military service ofthe country. at a time when
they might be wanted en adders emergeney, as in the

case of the Tahiti affair, some time since ; and, lastly, be
urged that the more the state interitfered in
reasubjects of that
bsort, tie more it proclaimed that was y undertake
to furnish that which commercial enterprise usually supplied,
and thereby to discourage the regular
,trade and commerce
of the country. (Hear, hear.) But with regret tog e em-
ployment of the four line-of-battle slips— tie Qu the n,
Trafalgar, the Albion, and the fourth mentioned by the noble
lord—in such a traffic, he (Lord J. Russell found that the
tonnage of the four ships amounted to about 12,000 tons—that
amount would not have availed in comparison with the
63,565 tons of foreign ships, which, by the suspension of the
navigation laws, had brought previsions to this country.
These foreign ships had brought five times the quantity that
could have been introduced by the four line-of-battle ships,
and had saved the expense of fitting them up for a useless
service. But, apart from the consideration of the navigation
laws, he called upon the house to consider the immense
operations which had been carried on by tke trade of the
country for the purpose of supplying the population of the
United Kingdom with feed. There had been an unexam-
pled high price of corn; but, at the same time, efforts to an
enormous extent had been made by the trading community.
Some time ago the imports of corn were at the average of
9,000,000 quarters per annum; last mouth they were
at the average of 12,000,000 quarters per annum,
and in some weeks they had exceeded that amount,
and when the accounts were made out he believed
it would appear that the importation had been
greater than ever was known, and that not less than
6,000,000 of people had been fed during the course of the
year by importations which had been made from foreign
countries. Let the house compare that with any effect that
could have been made by the employment as suggested of
four line-of-battle ships. The enterprise of the merchants
sod importers exceeded any that the government could have
made in these times of misery and distress. The noble lord
seemed to think that the necessity for the suspension of the
navigation laws had passed away, and that no extraordinary '
circumstances now existed.
Lord G. BENTINCK—WiII have passed away on the let
of September, when the northern ports of Europe will be
closed by natural causes.
Lord J. RUSSELL begged to remind the noble lord and
the house what had been the extraordinary circumstances of
the last few months. In France, there had been • great
failure in the crops. In Germany, the dsficiency had been
so great, that on the Rhine corn had risen to 90s. per quarter.
In Prussia and other parts of Europe, similar results had
been shown. These circumstances called for the importation
of corn from all parts of Europe and front America. From
America an extraordinary supply had been received—a
supply without any precedent ; but, on the other hand,
France required the greatest part of the supply to be had
train the ports of the Black Sea ; and corn which otherwise
would have been brought here, had been taken by France
for the consumption of the people of that nation. In the
month of January, he and his colleagues thought the case
so urgent, that they proposed the suspension of the corn
duties and of the navigation laws. At that time the average
price of corn during the preceding six weeks was
635. 10d. per quarter, and the week preceding that
on which the proposition was made by the go-
vernment to the house, the price was 70s. 3d. per quarter.
Under these circumstances the house agreed unanimously
to
the suspension of those laws. Since that time there had
been a still further rise in price, and in Mark-lane the price
of corn had been 1005., 108 s., and on one day 115 s. per qr.
(Hear, hear.) From that, prices had again fallen, hut the
average of the last six weeks was 9 is. 10d. per qr. So that
when the house unanimously agreed to suspend these laws,
the price was 635. 111 d., and yet now, when the price was
945. 10d., he.was told by the noble lord it was unreasonable
to ask for any further suspension. (Hear, hear.) Then the'
noble lord stud that on the Ist September the necessity for
the suspension would have passed away. Who can tell that
at present ?
Lord G. BENTINCK—The necessity for ships will have
passed away—that is the whole question.
Lord J. RUSSELL repeated that his whole argument
was, that if there existed a necessity for corn, there existed
a necessity for ships—(bear, hear)—and he contended that
if a ship arrived at Liverpool, bringing corn from America,
the law should not be such as to say, " This is American
corn, brought in an American ship, which has been to
Ham, and because it has been landed there it must he
taken back again." (Hear, hear.) If corn was admitted
free, it must be so admitted in whatever ships it was brought.
Who could pretend to my that the weather during the next
six weeks would give this country a bountiful and abundant
harvest, or that the harvest throughout Europe would be
plentiful? Neither could any man predict that the abundant
harvest last year in America would be repeated in the pre-
sent year. (Hear, hear.) Let it not be forgotten, that with
high prices and a depreciated currency, the amount of con-
sumption ia this country had been extraordinary. No
doubt the extent of railway works had alleviated
the calamity under which the country laboured, by
causing a considerable demand for labour; but, at the same
time, when the amount of railway calls amounted to
21,000,0001., of which it is calculated that since January
18,000,0001. have been applied to railway works in the
united kingdom, it was impossible not to see that such an
expenditure must have led to the very considerable con-
sumption which had taken place. (Hear, hear.) So that,
while in one sense the construction of railroads had been
beneficial, in another sense they had aggravated the diffi-
culties. Taking all these circumstances into consideration,
his general result that it was the policy of earliarnent at
this time to open the doors as widely as possible for the ad-
mission of food, and to take away every restriction that
tended to prevent a single quarter of corn from coming into
this country. (Hear, hear.) If it was desired to keep
up at all the manufactures of the country, to maintain
the condition of the labouring classes, and to sustain
the national source of revenue, the house would not hesitate'
to pursue the policy of the free and indiscriminate admission
of corn. Having come to that conclusion, he could not
agree to the suggestion of the noble lord opposite, and would
not now enter upon a discussion of the general question
of a repeal of the navigation laws now pending before a
select committee. It was a question which probably would
come under the attention of the next parliament. For his
own part, he promised to give the most serious consideration
to the evidence taken by the committee when it was pro-
duced. The question was of the utmost importance, in its
various aspects in relation to the state of the commercial
marine, of the naval power of the country, and the princi-
ples of freedom of intercourse between nations. He
was unwilling to discuss such a question at the end
of the session, with a committee still sitting; but
the noble lord was Rot, on that account, justified in
supposing that any determination had been taken by the go.
vernment on the subject. Next session he (Lord J. Russell)
should he ready to consider the whole question with refer-
ence to the general principles of commercial policy, with re-
oft the effects of this law as rt graded th altered state
the world, and luitly, as regarded the naval force and
naval supremacy of this country. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. RICARDO rejoiced to hear from the noble lord that
the navigation laws were not to be discussed until the evi-
dence was brought to a close by the select committee. The
noble lord opposite (Lord G. Sentinel) had peculiar notions
with respect to protection to British shipowners, for, while he
would not allow foreign ships to compete with them, he
would bring into competition British line of battle ships. He
had sat now four months on the navigation committee, and
everything he had heard convinced him that many months
could not elapse before the whole question of those laws
must come under the notice of the house. Under these
he would not now embark in a premature die.

mission.
Mr. LIDDELL said he had listened with great satisfac-
tion to the speech of the noble lord at the head of the govern-
ment, who, if he understood him right, had declared that he
should keep his mind free and at liberty on the general ques-
tion of the repeal of the navigation laws, and that the pass
ing of this bill for their temporary suspension should not in
any degree prejudice the minds of the government on the
subject. On the part of the shipowners of this country he
was prepared to state that they were fully sensitive of the
necessity of providing supplies of food for the reople, but only
feared the danger of yielding a question of principle by the
adoption of the bill. He (Mr. Liddell) was, however, con-
tent with the declaration of the noble lard. Without yielding
the great question, he should nut oppose the bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the hen member understood him
correctly. He (Lord J. Russell) did not mean at all to pre-
judge the general question of the repeal of the navigation
laws.
After a few words from Mr. TKELAWNY in support of the
bill,
Mr. S. HERBERT said, that having listened to the argu-
ments adduced ag iinst this bill, he woks willing to support it,
even if the suspension of the navigation taws wee proposed
for a longer period than the month of March, ISIS. lie
doubted whether there would he other means far securing
food for the people, especially of Ireland, next year, and
hence he did not taink it prudent to interfere between the
consumer and the supply. He thought that a discussion on
the navieation laws could not come on at a more untie-
tunate Period to those who wished to maintain those
laws than that at which the consumer, suffering front
the high prices of provisions, would charge ho suf-
ferings to the maintenance of the existence of those laws.
Therefore, without giving any opinion on tho navigation
laws, and anxious that they should not be discussed at so un.
favourable a period, he should support the continuance of
their suspension till March next, Ile regretted that the
government had, moment the dropped bills, placed one from
which he had anticipated great benefit—the Agricultural
Statistics Bill. After the suffering of lest year, arising in a
great measure from uncertainty as to the supply, this mea-
sure would have been most useful; perhaps more useful in
this year than it ever would in future. He therefore deeply
regretted that the government had withdrawn the bill.
Mr. T. A. MITCHELL censured the conduct of the hnn.
measlier for Durham (Mr. Lindell), in prejudging a quer ion
which was still under the consideration of the committee.
Taking 01 things into consideration, he thought there we.
the same necessity now for suspending these laws as thcre
was six months ago. Freights, in some instances, were
even higher than six months ago; and ho thought the
government would have done well to suspend these laws,
not only with reference to corn, but to all articles of import,
including the raw produce of our manufactures. He feared
we might look for another failure of the potato crop, and,
whether or not, very large importations of foreign corn
would still be required.
Mr. A. CHAI'MAN considered that the safety and
prosperity of this country depended on the continuance of
tke navigation laws. With refereuce to the committee now
sitting, he hoped the noble lord at the head of the govern-
ment would attend more to the evidence than the report of
that committee, many of whose members hail entered it
with preconceived opinions. Ile treated the further seven-
I sion now proposed would not be mode the stepping-stone to
the total abrogation of these laws
Lord J. MANNERS said it had been mair.hr ineisted on
by his noble friend near him (Lord G. Bentincl) that the
war-stemmas should be employed in the importation of
corn; and, to this sugdestion, the noble lord at the heal of the
government seceded. It was said that the great difficulties to