The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-28 00:00:00

IRISH NEWSPAPERS.

Mr. NEWDEilklEliWiire7lof the Chancellor of the
Exchequer whether there was 23 per cent. difference in
the stamp duty levied on Irish newspapers as compared with
English papers, and if so, what reason there was for it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that it
was in fact the practice to allow 25 per cent. to Irish news-
papers, and to charge Id. instead of Id., and the reason
was that at the time of the imposition of the present stamp
duty an alteration was made with regard to a privilege
which the Irish newspapers had of returning unused stamps,
that privilege being wii hdrawn.
Mr. NEWDEOATE —Was the privilege which was with-
drawn enjoyed by Irish newspapers exclusively, or was it
also enjoyed by Engliiih papers 1
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I under.
stand it belonged exclusively to the Irish papers.
The motion for the adjournment to Monday was then
agreed to.
INCOME TAX BILL.

The houso then went into comul.ttee on this bill.
On Clause 3,
Mr. NEWDEOATE was understood to inquire whether
the Chancellor of the Exchequer would ohj,ct to allow cm-
enviers of land to have their land valued by competent
1 persons appointed by the commissioners in case they thought
I themst Ives overcharged,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. had never
had this point stilted to him by any one, and he was not
aware that the occupiers of land felt themselves aggrieved
in this respect. lie would rather not give a positive an-
swer without inquiry, but i.e would consider the nutter,
and give the hon. gentleman an answer.
Clause 4 was agreed to with amea•lments.
On Clause .5,

vied
tu under he
continuinga etth os
et :iac64t,i
a6a "Npd.
acts
else to
ood
should
timpossible
ascertain,s
feu":
what
h I etehl
eG
housel lT said
would
this
be
e clausegenerally
.o tf nature—p::::ant
copse it
meant
,uj
thought,
le. ,It professed to tell the house and the public rolaec;
things which were not contained in it, which would require
ttohnbte any
not
only
toy had
laborious,achance
b
of practice in construing seta of parliament. It stated that
o
and other acts referred to which were subsequently pare,ie. '
that d:
dtehxuiptsil's:iunw:
pee:lt
laltering,lbtehi„e
were in fact dead. Eight ;lets we re referred to begineniajg
' with 5 & 6 Vic. c. 35, and teen ten. ral others (Meowed,
which were amending acts and continuing acts for three
as
ouyearsfntdeer and
which oneincome
year.tht ea payers,
e w
called on to
Chanceller of the Exchequer had not Airier(' his accustomed
habits of business and affiniidetrative ability
ro, os;ng
the clause as it stood. The house had long been of opinion
that, instead of repeating part- of acts and revising dead
ones, a measure should be complete its itself. The chair-
man of committees in :he other house had laid down such a
rule with regard to private bills, and last year in the case of
• the Rochdale Improvement Bills which had passed this
hnuse, when it got to the other, the chairman insisted
that the bill should be withdrawn, because it stated repealed
acts and re-enacted parts of other arts, and gave as a
reason, that the people of the town which was to be taxed,
ought to know what the law under which they were taxed
wee, and he insisted that the bill should be nude omelete
in itself. His (Mr. Bright's) right honourable colleague
and himself, had insisted last year on this point with regard
to the Militia Bill, and if they were now passing a bill ins-
praing a tax for three years (if the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had said for 19 or 90 year*, he would have been
quite safe), they h el a right to have the bill complete. Ap-
peals and other questions might arise, which gave on every
page of the inematotax, a right to have a law with a dis-
tinct insaning and a very little labour would effect that.
He had. another objection to the bill—namely, that thin
clause re-enacted the machinery of the tax. He objected
strongly to the machinery so far as the local courraissianers
were concerned, and lie had stated on a former occasion a
plan which would, he knew, be aitiefactory to the c mime.
coal classes in the north. The local commissioners were
chosen from the Land Tax Commissioners, who were sp.
painted in some hocus-pocus manner at the end of every
Pay thenithaTte:lll:a.o.ll.rac.l,ll..l47ir
session by certain membe re, to whom some names of per-
sons were sent. In his district that mode of appointment
cannel great dissatisfaction, and there was an iropreesien at
the impartiality of the commissioners. He had
,proyosed
that the local commissioners should be appointed by Veri
payers of income tax ; and that the surveyor of a district
should send a list to all the persons who paid income tax in
the previous year, with a request that each person should
place his initials opposite any number of names of
persons whom he wished to bin appointed com-
missioners, and that list having been sent back
to the surveyor, he should count the votes and
publish in the Gatette or the keel papers, the commie-
sioners so chosen for the ensuing year or two years. He
(Mr. Bright) was in favour of the income tax, and disagreed
with the Chancellor of the Exchequer as to its being
abolished in 1560. Ile should prefer its remaining so long
as there was a single indirect tax, and what he proposed
was proposed ie good faith towards the Chancellor of the
Exchequer and the government, and he proposed it because
he knew what was the feeling now in his own neighbour-
hood ; while if the local commissioners were appointed in
the manner he suggested there would he a feeling in favour
of the justice and impartiality of the commissioners, which
was impossible under the present system. He believed also
that the right hon. gentleman would find that under com-
missioners so selected the management would be better and
the revenue greater. if there was any objection to his
plan he should be glad to hear it from the Chancellor of the
Exchequer. He did not wish to move that the chairman
report progress, for it was his desire tln this measure
should pass speedily ; but still he thought the Chancellor of
the Exchequer ought to give au ascor see that it' tine bill
was allowed to pass in its present 'shape, he would
undertake to give them a consolidated bill at an
early period, and alto that he would fairly con-
sider the subject of the appointment of the local com-
missioners. By this bill there was practically no appeil to
special commissioners if a return was sent in to the lota
commissioners; and there ought not to be any restriction on
' appeals to the special commissioners. Ile should not maks
any motion, but he felt it to be his duty to appeal strongly
and earnestly, but in no feeling of hostility, to the Chan-
celler of the Exchequer, to explain the views he held, and
to give a pledge that he would effect a consolidation of the
measure, and consider the question of a better mode of ap-
pointments of the local commissioners. Ile (Mr. Bright)
had brought the subject forward, because he was anxious to
make this measure as little irritating to the public, and so
advantageous to the revenue, es possible.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
question the motives which had induced the hon. gentleman
to bring forward this subject, but when he had made his
explanation, the hon. gentleman would see that his criti-
cisms were not well founded, though his object was rational
and open to consideration. 'the hon. gentleman was in
error if he supposed that this was a supplemental bile, and
that he was precluded from making amendments on it. This
clause revived certain old acts, subject to any provisions
the committee chose to introduce. So far from the bill
precluding the making of amendments, the bulk of it con-
sisted of amendments; and it was competent to any ono to
propose other amendments. The hon. gentleman said that
he ought to introduce a consolidated bill, and to change the
machinery under which the tax was levied. The question
of consolidating the bill was to be considered in two mints
of view. In the Lim plans, it was for the convenience of mem-
bers and persons out of the house that they should have a
clear comprehension of what was going to be done ; and in
the second place, there must be considered the functions
which the bill had to perform as a ways and mcnns act for
the revenue of the Tear, and the time in which it was neces-
sary that it should be passed. With regard to nu mbere of
the house, it was more fur their convenience that they
should see the new enactments standing by themselves. If
he had introduced a bill with 250 old and 50 new clauses,
what would have been the condition of gentlemen
who bad to master it, and lie would have been
told that he had brought in a bill with the whole
law instead of with the new enactments, and that they
were so mixed up with old matter that they did not know
what was to be done. The plan he had adopted was not
only his own opinion, but was founded on authority and
general practice. Besides this time precluded the intro-
duction of such a bill, if he were to get a bill the functions
of which were to raise a tax to be paid into the Exchequer
within a certain period. When the government came into
office in January, they had to consider the principles of the
tax, and all its structure was to be examined. They had to
take time to do that, and they could not in justice to the
house have delayed the measure for two or three months
longer till a consolidated bill was drawee. They would not
then have called in the Solicitor to the Board of Inland
Revenue to begin to prepare such a bill. The hon. gen-
tleman might perhaps think that the Solicitor of Inland
Revenue could have drawn a consolidated bill in twenty-
four hours, but practice and experience was against any such
notion. The hon. gentleman also said that the machinery
of the tax !should be changed, end he (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) must say that his demand was a reasonable one;
for there was much of the machinery which required eon-
sideration, and which had been productive of discontent.
He believed, however, that some discontent was caused by
its not being generally known that there was a power of
referring assessments to special commissioners instead of
local commissioners. lie admitted that it was open to the
hon. gentleman to urge that amendments should be made
with regard to the local commissioners ; but the hon. gen-
tleman was not aware of the difficulty and complexity of
the subject. The hon. gentleman said that lists should be
circulated among those who paid income tax last year, and
to allow those who had been ussued to vote for the ap-
pointment of commissioners. There were many diffi-
culties in such a plan. One was that neither
the commissioners, nor the state, nor any one
else knew who had paid income tax in the last year. That
might be known In schedule B, but not in schedules C or
D. Would the honourable gentleman then have Commitm
• sioners for each schedule, with separate offices, and double
and treble organisation and machinery. Another difficulty
was that it was a very serious matter to send round a list
to all who bad paid lucerne tax last year, as it would tend
to expose to every man's neighbours all particulars relating
to his payment of or exemption from the tax. The hon.
gentleman might say that no one had a right to object to
this publicity, but the principle on which the tax had
always been levied was the observance of secrecy. The
difficulty with regard to the new machinery was the same
as that which applied to the consolidation of the act; namely
that if you got the machinery could you go to work and
make assessments. If you dispensed with the present boards
there must be an interval before others were appointed and
the assessments made, and there would be delay in the
levying of the tax ; and as he (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer) had promised that there should be a sum of six
millions in the exchequer before the sith of April next, it
was only on the supposition that he should get the law to as
to be able to go to work at ones, and if the hon, gentleman
insisted on a new hill being introduced he could not s•et the
six millions by that time. Besides, the sth July would pass
before it came into operation, and the dividends due then
would pass without payment. With regard to the cemoli-
dation of these various acts, he admitted the desirability ;
but the difficulty was great, and, though he would held out
the hope, he would make no pledge.
Mr. BRIGHT was satisfied that any person of ordinary
brains could effect a consolidation of these sets by 48 hours'
labour. With regard to the secrecy necessary, It was well
known that at present there was little or no practical se-
crecy, the returns made by persons uirer the income tax
constantly turning up in the most unexpected places; and
he had not asked thet every man's asseument should be
printed, but that there should he such lists as would suffice
for guidance as to rating purposes. The right hon. gentle-
man was hound to attempt something in the way of Cv/Weii.
dation by next session. The opinions of the judges had
been given that his was not framed as an act of parliament
should he, and it was unquestioueely enconstitutional to tax
men by acts which the y could net comprehend.
Mr. HAMILTON had given much attention to this sub-
ject since the boase had, in effect, eleciOcel on the extension
of the income tax to Ireland; and he was sure that there
ought to be a special bid fur Iceland, the use of words
which were net at all applicable to circumstances in Ireland
being likely to occasion the greatest confusion and diffi-
culty. (Hear' hear.) lie wished to know whether land-
owners in Ireland would be able under this bill to deduct
the interest on rumegages and l: ads generally ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered
in the affirmative. He could s--tire the hon. gentleman
I that the government had considered the difficulty carefully,
j and had come *e a c mclueeen against a separate system or
bill for Ireland.

Mr..L G. PHI:A.I:4OIM e %).restvl a strong objection
with re,peet to the loose and slovenly way in %hies this

its 4 b.es &awe up, and **led out confusions and r concur in that suggestion, bolievieg that the clause was
7ar m stiontreJa•is aeveral of the clause.. It would nmesaary for the protection of the revenue. With regard
L'.4"...„..,,evet thing is the world to franw.a cousolidated act. , to the appeal, it wss nameable to suppose that as regarded
f 41 ', KELLY point, out that the hg l, as it applied to , the parties themselves, the present valuation was fair, but
Coat Orr,• were assessed taxes and land it was necessary to give a power of appeal to the commis-
lnd4 Ira ; therefore, that it was an absurdity. ; closers, in order that the 'valuation should not be unduly
CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered I depressed. Where, however, in consequence of such ap-
Tht., *
berm ti.. dune, since tiers were no peal a new valuation wee wade, an appeal was given also to
1,.'111:,„.. lave is bel ed. the parties.
Mr NALREI:4, as an I r:,linian who would have to Colonel DUNNE asked by whom the expense of the re-
and. ratend the bill. valuation was to be borne ?

,on I 111.NNE made a remark to the same effect.
me !MACKE If. takisa the point of view
.„I,n,tting the unfairness to Ireland, expressed
k,..44,,...hment Inn th, tight hon. gentleman (Mr. Glad-
gore' s' mid base nii,sed ins opportunity to acquire the
• rero'hrity with the *riding classes which would bars
•iasple elf .rt to remedy the obnoxious machinery
et tfus bill. The Wills:el down certain rules, by which the,
were eketed, which gave great (Alonso.
rleb. ,ey
i.e asked 0,,,f • nun thine satisfsctory 113911 t of elect•
in should be adoptisl. Then again, with respect to
trade, E.e bt:l att.:noted to define bow those
oe se•eit. ascii alai allow.rl for, hit it did that
sets SJ spin with leg ir,l to ttio question of
appeal of which a great want wee felt in the manufacturing
y oily eked tat greater facilities should be
toe V.
INA ht the genies h mg • Ip4scel, either to vulgar
tiu. „it'. or to the prying of rivals i..hu.incsa. If the hoe.
igemakr r.ud ion
.•,t. red to divide, ha should have divided
generally ,f the mercantile c ra-
mo•
aity he Mi,ev.d that meet of the meinlv..rs representing
b ,et red the le 'use, ph d,reit to the neck to procure a
of the iutsome tat. Their constituents
rueriky Eel relieve I them from that pledge, but the
on r they had made, the more obligatory
en the ebance.lor of the Exchequer to twerp away
regulations, and to nit.lpte the pressure of this

sort"

eeiegs tax.
Mr. MICHELL espreseed his belief that the Clauses re-
Istiet Irelead were the se st inteiligible part of the bill.
It tley snuck vat Ireland alt etether and applied the
ewe,. new rainier to leeland to England they would get
eel of the Commieseitiere ef 'Stamps mud Taxes altegether,
thee Cenneellor ef the Exchequer would hove power to
• • semi it cummisseiners, who would appoint the local
see •"`•
C 1,111:•••••.
n.
Mr. CAT LEY put the ease of an owner of lard who oe-
cui A einistlf, but who said he had made no profit for
wow and 'chained that he ought to be assessed
in Les 'fleet and not en the suppese I Talmo of the laud.
Woale such a e et as *het be peas heel for?
Tee CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that
*person iu sues a position would som en such a (ilea be ex
tee...lbis poor rater by his fellaw parishioners, and Le did
act ke why he should he excused his tax to the state.
Sir J. PAK 'MIMS remarked that the 41. t clause em-
powered persons who insured their lives to deduct 7tl. in the
und OD the amount of their premium. Ilia coaetruction
al its: eta'se was that is applied only to schedules D
sad E•
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was
applicable to an the scheuules.
Mr. I. lileTT protested against this mode of legislating
by urp:iL.itios. It was impeminle for them, as the clause
steel, to understand what they were enacting. If he did
sot tusk it would stop the progress of public business,
he ihould more that the clause be postponed. (Hear.)
As Oen seemed to meet with the concurrence of the house,
he lewd that the climate he eseepoi ed.
The CHAIRMAN said it was soot competent for any hon.
lumber to more that a eleuse be postponed.
Lord J. RUSSELL *aid the hon. gentleman could not
move the postponement of the clause. He could move that
it he negatived, but that would destroy the wholo bill,
beeeuse the purport of the clause was to re-enact all the
rowers for levying the income tax, which expired on the
a:h Aeril The Income Tax Act was 'my much consi-
dered is lele, all the clauses were gone through, and it
was statee by ter It. reel at that time that he had taken
into ems: leratien the provieions of Mr. l'itt's Income Tax
Act, and the Income Tax Aet of 800, as framed by Lord
en nville end L Lanalowne. Now Lord Grenville and
Led Lmsdoene were not such bunglers as to make the
thing confused. rerliement had repeatedly considered
the question of the income tax ; and on these
TATIOUS occasions they had contented themselves with
revaseting without mueL alteration the provisions of
the act of 1312. The question was, whether it was desira-
ble sow to go through the whole of the provisions of the
act of 1813, to re-enact certain parts, to consieer and alter
utter paws, and to have a new machinery altogether. Ile
emetived that course would have led to the greatest public
inconvenience. The Chancellor of the Exchequer could
ao; well propose the budget fur the year till toe ards the
tad of April. The Income Tax Act expired on the sth of
April. Ile had always heard, iu 1815 and 1851, that every
body concerned in the revenue department said it was of
the mom importance that before the sth of July the act
should be passed ; tb-it there would be great difficulty in
mekint up the ho •ke and in collecting the tax if the act
were not prised. Then the question arose, whether it was
at better to take the act as it existed and to confirm it.
There might be a queetiun—a considerable question—in the
proposal made by the bon. member for Manchester. The
ben. member might be right in that pr •posel, but
be (lewd John Russell) thought it ou.ht to be
:metaled from the main question of the renewal of the In-
enneetax Act. Br it observed that in the present enact-
ment that which Ras taken to be the foundation of it was
the act for the saw ',sod taxes, in which it was thought of
great importance that the persons engaged in the assess-
ment of the tax shauld not be person. connected with the
reeeerneet, Whether Chet was wise es ./11 Wl. • .0.155.
for diseussion. Ho sea for trues saying that it was not a
fair question to bring before the house. Then came the
totally separate question of the act to Ireland ; but really,
with regard to that question, again he did not think they
should :to more than make such alterations as appeared
absolutely necessary that the general powers and authori-
ties of the act should extend to Ireland. Taking the whole
aamber of clauses in the act of 1542, and re-enacting them
with regard to Ireland did not seem a very
maibroms sad unnecessary provision. (Hear, hear.)
If there were special provisions requires in the
case of Ireland, let amendments be proposed and con-
sidered, but that did not seem to Lien M affect the g 1
mestion, that the most convenient way of extending this
tax to Ireland was to make the general provision, and then
to maks any alterations which the necessities of the case
and the difference of the circumstances required.
Mr. MAGUIRE considered that if the bill were ex-
tended to Ireland, Irish members ought to have every
facility for understanding what it was they were enacting,
which they had not at present.
Mr. KIRK was one of the Irish members who had
voted for extending this tax to Ireland, which be did under
the full conviction that it was intended to take off the con-
solidated annuities and direct taxation from the Irish
tenant farmers. By the 13th clause the tax would be levied
on the tenants, and, as ho read it, they would be
able to deduct from the landlord only according to
the rent they paid, whereas they might base made im-
provements, and be assessed in the poor-law valuation at a
higher sane He thought the tax ought to be levied on the
landlord, and he suggested that by means of the police they
could easily ascertain who were the landlords and agents of
the rot.
Thpe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted
the importance of the question, but suggested that it should
be discussed when they arrived at the 13th clause.
Mr. LUCAS suggested that all mention of Ireland should
be withdrawn from the bill, and that a new bill should be
brought in for that country. Certainly he could not conseat
to enact at one step the whole 190 clauses of the bill as re-
garded Ireland, and therefore he should move that the pre-
sent clause be omitted.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
that the object of the present clause was merely to fix the
principle ; a special provision would be afterwards intro-
duced to provide fur the expense.
After a lengthened but desultory conversation, the clause
was agreed to as amended.
Clause 16 was also passed, with some amendments.
Clause 17 was postponed.
Clauses 18, 19—
Mr. MAGUIRE wanted to know on what principle trade
and professions were to be valued in Ireland ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that
the same rules would apply in Ireland as existed in Eag-
land fur valuing incomes under Schedule D. At the $4lllO
time he did not preclude himself from adopting any ina•
proventont or alteration which might be suggested,
GT which the p, culler circumstances of Irelausi might
rend .r necessary, preserving, however, the same standard'
which the law fixed as to the amount.
After sonic further desultory iiiicussion on this subject, I
which related to a clause that had alreod been passed,
Mr. I. BUTT moved an amendment to the effect, that
persons assessed under schedule 1) should be assessed by
special commissioners.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
if he understood the irnendenect it involved the necessity
of appointing and distributing over Ireland a high class of
officers, with high pay, to perform duties which in Rag-
land were discharged by a different class of officers with
lower pay. The assessment was nut made in England by
special cumuli sinners. In Ireland it was imposed to give
lam Well to the assistant barristers.
Mr. BUTT said, by the 131st clause of the bill, in Eng-
land a trader instead of loin; assessed by the local commis-
sioners might make a return to the special commissioners.
He only wished to give the same power in Ireland as there
was England.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, if the
right in question was nut preserved in Ireland, he would
Wm care that words were added to the clause for that pur-
pose. (Hear, hear.)
The amendment vas withdrawn, and the clause agreed to.
Clauses 21, 2'2, 23, and 24 were agreed te.
On clause 25,
Mr. BROCKLEHURST moved as amendments, in line
11, after the words t'commissiuners for," to insert the
words " general or." In line 21, to strike out the word
" se;" tied after the word "assessed," to insert the words
"and paid for the last year, or on the average of the last
*moo years, as such commissioners as aforesaid may de-
;" and in line 32, after the word "for," to it sect the
wools " general or."
' The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE4 am not see
the necessity for the amendment, and thought it was ex-
tending the powers of local commissioners, whose authority
cow caused dissatisfaction. It also altered the whole assess-
ment under Schedule D.
Alter further conversation, the amendment was with-
drawn, and the clause was agreed to.
On clause 26,
Mr. BUTT proposed amendments to exempt incomes
under 1501. from the income tax, specially in reference to
clergymen. This portion of the income tax would only
produce 100,0001 a year; and such a sum was not worth
the uopopu arity which would attend such au extension.
Why not give up this' and forego some of those remissions
of taxes on luxuries which would benefit the rich simply ?
The hon. and learned gentleman referred to the speech of
Sir J. Graham on Mr. Disrael'a budget in support of his
proposition.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER regretted
that the hen. and learned gentleman should attempt to
re-raise the whole question of the various claims of differ-
ent classes to exemption. With regard to clergymen, he
did not see why they should be exempted, and lie assu-
redly did not think it would be for their interest to be
exempted. If the hon. and learned gentleman was moved
by compassion, why did he not propose an exemption in the
case of life annuities, and in the ciao of widows with small
annuities ? This was the proper answer to each a pro-
posal; for in attempting to make one insidious dis-
tinction the honourable and learned gentleman pro-
voked half-a-dozen more. With regard to the
general proposal, he (the Chancellor of tee Exchequer)
condemned it altogether. The lion. and learned gentleman
condemned this
sextensi n downwards of the income tax,
but he did not seem sensible that his argument went to this
extent, that it was inexpedient to tax any persons except
those of easy incomes; and whatever the "dangers of de-
mocracy," none of them could be regarded as greater than
the encouragement of a principle such as that. (Hear,
bear.) He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was satisfied
that the classes to whom the income tax was to be extended,
and who were aware of the intentiuns of the house, ac-
quiesced in that policy, finding their amount in the relief
they would gain by the remissions on necessities and in the
new policy involved in the duties on succession.
After a few words from Mr. e rUON Ea,
Mr. BUTT wished to set himself right. This amend-
ment; was in no way concocted with the other amendment.
Whcn the right hon. gentleman charged him with seeking
to obstruct the income tax by proposing groduations
be-
tween dills-rent classes of income, it was he himself that
had done that by proposing that incomes between 100/. and
150/. should pay only sd. in the pound. His (Mr. Butt's)
amendment did not touch real property.
The Marquis of GRANBY said he supposed that his
object was it:entice! with that of the hon. and learned gen-
tle MU, and that they were both of them in favour of indi-
rect taxation, and that they were both of them de-
siri lel of getting rid of the income tax. But
be (the Marquis of Granby) thought that the beet
' mode of doing so was to make all feel its ine-
quality, its pressure, and its injustice. Upon these
pounds, he felt himself bound to vote against the amend-
ment. Perhaps the committee would allow him to explain
a former tote that he gave. lin voted in favour of the
omendmeut of the hon. member for Hertfordshire, because
he did not approve of the budget. The hon. member for
Montrose voted against it because he was in favour of the
budget.
Mr. KIRK mado an sppeal to the committee in favour
of the clergymen of all p•nuasions, who he thought ought
lot to bear this tax when their incomes did not exceed 1501.
The committee then divided :
For the amendment
Against it 205-153
On the gallery being re-opened,
Mr. BARROW was found addressing the committee. He
was understood to complain of some injustice towards
tenant farmers in the mode of assessing the income tax, and
urged that they should be assessed on the same principle as
landlords and tradesmen.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said if he
understood the hon. gentleman's proposition aright, it was
one be could not accede to. The tenant had the same privi-
lege as the landlord by means of the appeal that was given
bins. It would not be fair, after taking his rent as a
standard, that he should be allowed to make deductions.
Mr. BARROW repeated his objection to the existing
mode of assessment, and said it would be impossible for a
farmer to prove the value of his stock at the beginning
and end of a year, as a tradesman could do.
After a few words from Mr. VANSITTAKT,
Mr. W. MICHELL moved an amendment in line eight

The committee thereupon divided— of the clause exempting the first hundred pounds of income
For the class*
Against it
Oa clause 7. ?Deals contained in the customs resolubonr,and ridiculed the
Colonel DUNNE asked whether the owners of property idea of reducing the duties on rose-water, cards, and cameos.
in Ireland who were under the present law liable to the Especially he objeeted to the reduction of the duty on coc-
tax if they resided in England would be taxed according to eutus sndictis. If they encouraged the u-e of such a noxious
the place of their residence, or according to the locality of drug and drank pale ale, they might see Death on the pale
their property ? horse. (Loud laughter.) the lower classes were pressed
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that if upon by the whole of the budget—(hear, hear)—all the re-
the incomes were derived from land in Ireland it would missions of taxation were for the good of the wealthy, cl-
ef aurae be taxed in Ireland; and with respect to other eept the reduction of the tea duties. The soap remission,
descriptions of property, they would be assessed according be thought, would de verylittle good for the people.
residence. The et act of the bill would be to restore aim- Colonel DUNNE then moved that the chairman should
plicity to what was now somewhat complicated. report progress.
In answer to Mr. HAMILTON, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER suggested
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that that they should first dispose of the clause.
a seearate account would be kept of the Irish income tax. The committee then divided—
The clause was then agreed to. For reporting program 3l
Oa clause 12 Against it l3O-99
Lord NAAS had an amendment to propose on this Lord J. RUSSELL protested against these repeated mo-
clause. He had great objection to the employment of poor- elms to report p and he was surprised that hon.
law oSeials in the collection of this tax, and should these- members persevered withrogress, them when they saw that they
fore propose that besides the present returns of the vales- were going against numbers and against reason. As there
lien that were made to the poor-law guardians, separate was no prospect of getting on with the bill now, he would
returns should be made to the commissioeen themselves. agree to the motion that they do report progress.
Mr. BALL concurred with the noble lord in wishing to Mr. SPOONER objected to the words "against reason,"
see the general valuation of Ireland, which was now drawing as there was no prospect of reaching to the end of the
rapidly to completion, rendered elected for fiscal purposes. clause to-night, and therefore it could not be against reason
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER reserved to report progress.
tias amendment eking with the other suggestions fog future The house then resumed, and the chairman reported pro-
consideration. grass, and obtained leave to sit again.
Mr. MAGUIRE lathed, if a whole property were of less EXCISE DUTIES ON SPIRITS BILL.
value than 1001. a year, and if the tenants were rated at 11. This bill went through committee, pro forma, and was
a year for poor rate, would the income tax be levied ; and, if ordered to be reprinted.
so, how was the Goan; to get it back again ? REGISTRATION OF ASSURANCES BILL.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said thetas On the motion for the second reading of this bill,
the clause stood, the tax would be levied irrespective of the Mr. HATFIELD expressed a hope that the second read-
question is to whether the landlord waS liable or not. The log would not be pressed then, although it was intended to
practice would be the same as in England—the tenant de- refer the bill to a select committee.
ducting from the landlord, end leaving the latter to recover Mr. T. EGERTON said the bill had met with eon-
heal the cemmissionere. The hardship would not he so siderable opposition in the ciuntry, and he could not con-
great after all ; as, exemption once proved, there was seldom sent to the second reading, unle-s the noble lord the mem-
ane second application, her for the City of London would allow evidence to he
The amendment was then withdrawn, and the clause taken by the committee.
aeteed to. Lord J. RUSSELL had no objection to give the com-
C:auses 13 and 11 were postponed. mittee power to call for papers end to take evider.ce,
Clause IS, believing that they would exercise it discreetly, but
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Paid he he could not consent to postpone the second readin.t for the
proposed en addiuun to this clause, giving au appeal to the sake of discussion, as it would be much better to discuss the
pence useseed. principle and details of the bill when it came down again
Lad NAAS objected to the chime as giving the la- from the select committee. (Hear, hear.)
land Revenue cimmisiitmen the same powers as the coca- After a few words from Mr. Saunders, Mr. I. Butt, Mr.
missioners of Poor-law. O. Palmer, and Mr. Iliodley,
Mr. SCULLY supported the clause.' Mr. FIRE WEN expressed a hope that the hon. gentleman,
_ S'r A. BROOKE suggested that if a new valuation was the member for Cirencester, who took a deep interest in the
found to be nee' toiry, it should take place at the expense of bill, and thoroughly understood it, would be placed on the
Op government. committee. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. CAIRNS ohserved that the clause iv amended would Lard J. RUSSELL promised that he should.
only give the appeal in the one ease—that was where the The hill was then real a second time and ordered to be
valuation was hrinw the correct amount. referred to a select committee.
Mr. 0. A. HAMILTON said, one great evil in Iraind The Copyhold Bail, the Convicted Prisoners Removal
was the number of valeatieus. Ile 'naught it would be and Conhnemeut Bill, and the Burgh Harbours (Seotlauil)
better to adopt the peer law valuation or the valuation of I Bill, were passed through committee.
the e'cleha"'" si for the income tax ,ad omit the elastic. Sir W. MOLESIVORTII obtained leave to bring in a
The CHANCELLOR of :lit EXCiIEtiI:ER cud; cot bill to provide for the pureLse and extinguishment of cow-

man and Lammas rights claimed over the site of Battersea-
perk...

• -
Sir J. YOUNG obtained leave to bring in a bill to extend
the municipal boundaries of the borough of Belfast, and
to reduce the scale of rating upon certain property within
the said borough.
The other orders were then disposed of, sod the house
adjourned at half- past one o'clock.

PAIRS ON SIR W. CLAY'S MOTION.—The Lord Mayor,
fur, with Mr. Alderman Cubit?, against ; Mr. Ker Stymer,
for; Mr. Mosley Pellatt, against; Sir Henry Utiles, fur;
Mr. hlarjoribanks, against.
Mr. ehillimore'sMotion.—Kr. Batas, be; Mr. A. M.
Fos, against.