The Express.
London, England, 1853-04-29 00:00:00

slim By this bill it was prepaid to Fire the holder pf
that new office compensation out of the Consobasted Fa*
and as it was • lucrative office, be woul•1 require ' -
thowands of pounds to satisfy him. The noble .--
propoicd to give compensation to the clerks in
also.: or to those who were not continued. 11
think that common clerks, ‘ll2O might be '
- -

a sot
at an

hour's notice, cliim to coinpensadon.
this was another instance of the great expense to which this
bill would pot the landed interest.
TILE TRANSPORTATION OF CONVICTS.
Earl GREY then rose to put a question of which he had
given notice, what arrangement has been mule fur
disposing of the convicts now in the penal establishments at
Portlsnd, Dartmoor, Gibraltar, and Bermuda, who under
the regulations in force when they were sent to those esta-
blishments might expect to get to the colonies with tickets
of leave, and also bow many convicts are still detained in
those establishments who under those regulations would be
already entitled to be removed with tickets of leave. He
said their lordships would remember that in this it became
necessary to mike some considerable alterations with re-
gard to the system of transportation, and a committee of
their lordships was appointed, which collected some very
valuable evidence on the subject, and in consequence of the
report of that committee the scheme originally determined
on at the end of 1846 was to a slight degree modifi,d, and
sines that time had continued in force. The prin-
ciple of that scheme was that offenders were sub-
ject to punishment in this country, first by separate
confinement, then by imprisonment in public works' and
ultimately they were removed to a penal colony. That
system bad worked very successfully, and had had the best
effect in securing the reformation of the convicts. About
two or three months ago, however, it was announced in
that and the other house of parliament that the removal of
convicts with tickets of leave to Van Diemen's Land was to

cease altogether, that not another ship was to be sent there,
and that, even with regard to Western Australia, only a
small nfirober was to be sent. Now, there were in the esta-
blishments a considerable number of convicts to whom had
been held out the promise that, by good conduct, they
might entitle themselves to be removed with tickets of
leave to the colonies ; and he, therefore, wished to ask the
question of whielt he had given notice. lie would only add
that the keystone of all improvements of late years adopted
in the treatment of convicts had been keeping faith rigidly
with them, holding out no inducement of indulgence in
consequence of good conduct which had not been strictly
fulfilled. .

The Earl of ABERDEEN said no one knew better than
the noble earl the great difficulty of dealing with such a
question as this. The question was, how far it was practi-
cable to comply with the expectations which had been held
oat to these persona. lie entirely agreed with the noble
earl that it was necessary to preserve good faith with all
those who had reason to expect indulgence in consequence
of good conduct, but to send them to the colonies was im-
possible, and therefore it was not possible to comply lite-
rally with the terms held out. Still good faith might sub-
stantially be preserved towards them by a diminution of the
duration of punishment under certain regulations. Al-
though this might not be as welcome to the con-
victs as sending them to the colonies, yet under
the 0"- lances it appeared to be all that was
This - of the diminution of the duration

practicable. system
of punishments was under the consideration of his noble
friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department, and
he hoped would speedily be adopted. He was not about to
give an opinion with regard to the principle of adherence
to the punishment of transportation. That subject required
full consideration, and also the means they should posseu
of carrying it out. In answer to the noble earl as to the
number, he might say that the number of persons to whom
he had referred as entitled to tickets of leave amounted to
1,052. Those persons undoubtedly would not be sent to
the colonies, but they would receive such an equivalent in
the way of diminution of punishment as should be thought
equitable and just. The noble lord had not referred to the
systems which might be pursued hereafter with regard
to the treatment of those persons, and therefore he
did not feel tailed upon to go further into the
subject, but he thought that &discussion in which the sub-
ject might be fully inquired into and thoroughly examined
would be essentially useful.
Earl GREY—Do I understand the arrangement is to
discharge in this country the convicts now in these establish-
ments who, under the existing rules, would have been sent
abroad ?

The Earl of ABERDEEN—Conditionally, with certain
gradations. It is a subject, u I have alrrady informed the
noble earl, now under the consideration of my noble friend
the Home Beeretary.
Earl GREY said he bad heard that aanonneement with

considerable surprise. If they discontinued sending these
convicts abroad, they must discharge them at home, and
this they would do without the authority of parliament and
against the recorded opinion both of that sad the other
house of parliament. Her Majeety's government had taken
upon themselves—he ventured to assert without any nee's-
sity—to repeal the punishment of transportation, which for
200 years had been the policy of this country to adhere to.
lle did not mean to go int, a discussion at that moment.
Their lordships were not made acqurinted with the arrsnge-
meats that were to be carried into effect, and which it ap-
peared were to be carried into effect in such a as to
involve a violation of good faith towards those unhappy
men who were in the penal establishments, because the
noble earl had told them there were upwards of 1,000
men in these establishment', who under regulations under the
sar.ction of that and the other house of parliament, and which
were hung up in their cells, had a right to ezpeet that in
consequence of their good :conduct they would be sent to
the colonies with tickets or leave, but who would not be
sent. He had heard the announcement with great regret.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said the noble earl

understood him. No decision had been come to on the
subject. He (the Earl of Aberdeen) said the matter was
under consideration. The noble earl already knew the
difficulty of foreleg convicts on a crilocy ; he might attempt
impossibilities if he would, but he (the Earl of Aberdeen)
said that that which was possible only could be done.
Admitting fully the necessity of keeping faith with these
men to the full eatent that was practicable, and observing
the principles of equity and justice, the proposition
which would be made he hoped would I• satisfactory, but
what it wan bad not yet bees decided, and therefore he could
give the noble earl no further answer.
Earl GRIT said if he made • mistake the noble earl
himself wee answerable for it. He said they were going
to discharge there men in this country, sad the noble earl
said yes, under certain gradations. If, then. they were
going se Moberg, them under what wee called certain
gradatkem they bed Melded, end they had virtaally taken
upon themselves to abolish the system 44 transportation
without taking the opinion of parliament on the subject.
The noble mg had mad* an allusion which he perfectly
well undoubted, that he (Earl Grey) was amaze of the im-
possibility of taming colonies to receive convieta; bat he
would remind their lordships that, by the last accounts
white bog iniumnil fa she public papers, and in the papers
laid es Ode- lordships' table from Van Diemen's Lend,
when the kid markt ship arrived, snob wan the 110lODUTS•
ef marten elsithSg to employ them, that the. authorities
W le employooldiem to keep order, and to have a ballot
kr pokily el &SW.
• 411111•MPIIIiin then ensued, in which Lords Lansdowne,
Campbell. Derby, Granville, and the Doke of Newcastle,
took met, after wheat the house (at ones o'clock) ad-
journed.

HOUSE OE COMMONS.—Tauxanty, APRIL 28
The Ifirtatza took the chair at a quarter before four
&dock.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
BURTON-UPON-TRENT IMPROVEMENT

order erring the
Ihulewepon-Trant braprowinnent Bill to the cosszeittai of
seleelkethe reed and dischersted, and thet the bill be with-
/ ms ; also that
keys to gives to brills in abW for mon
albeenelly Itspffhfs. the town of Satton-upoa-Trent, in
the ementy of Illeeised • end that Mr. Added*, and Yr.
Mei wpm sal bag in the same.
Agreed to.

LONDONDERRY, ENNISKILLEN, AND SLIGO
RAILWAY BILL
Sir R. FERGUSON moved that the standing olden
Nos. 170 and 174 be suspended ; and that the Londonderry,
Eanfakilles. and Sligo Railway Bill, 'as amended, be eon-
doeslied this 'Waged Memeerow, provided amended prism shadd have
bads day.
Aimed to.
OLDHAM CORPORATION AND OLDHAM OAS
AND WATERWORKS HILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
• PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
_ _

Taw Runorr.--Ily Sir 1. GRAHAM, signed by up-
wards of 2,000 persona in a single day; Mr. MACAULAY,
from the Town Counoii of Edinburgh, in favour of; Mr.
T. PARKER, from 48 teadealers and grocers of the
borough of Preston; against the increased charge for
licenses to dealers M tobacco, tea, coffin, sad other @k-
illable articles, propmed by the Clemellor of the Ex-
amen; Mr. MOODY, from the chairman of the Yeovil
sad Drindume Midlionl ',slaty, praying fee a distinction be-
twos purramilsEarki loworgEri
_lawman . in the amassment
albs beriemeled-; I& T. DW@COMBE, from working.
men of IlheMeld, praying for the repeal of the whole of the
advertisommt duty; Mr. BASS, from Walter Pike, of
Derby, sompliisiag that the mods proposed of abolishing
the dxty eel angpleiMilMwill produce advantages which
will be shiest mempolimed by the Taws newspaper ; Mr.
EWART, from the dollen in tea, coffee, tobacco, Ea., in
Dumfries, against the proposed increase in the duty on
heesses; Mr. KENNEDY, from the proprietors of the
Legit* and Down Pilo newspaper, complaining on public
grounds of the duty imposed on advertisements, and
pprraayymse for the entire abolition of that inipoq; Mr.
GHEE HAM, from the Mechanics' Institution of Droyls-
den and Houghton, for repeal of advertisement tax, stamp
duty on newspapers, and duty on paper.
OrarriNG Or THE CRYSTAL PALACE ON SUNDAYS.—
By Mr. C. TURNER, from the Wesleyan Methodists of
the Liverpool Northern Circuit ; Mr. DUNCOMBE, from
Friends of Civil and Religious Liberty, Sheffield, in fa•
your of ; Mr. GWYN, from a place in Glamorganshire;
Mr. DUNLOP, from the inhabiteets of ,St. Stephen the
Martyrs district, Liverpool, against.
Pioxrc Houma (SCOTLAND) 1311.1..—8 y Mr. CRAU-
FURD, from the inhabitants, merchants, grocers, and
dealers is excisable liquors in parishes in the county of
Ayr, against; Mr. 0. DUNCAN, from the ministers and
' office-bearers of the Chapelshade Free Church, Dundee ;
Mr. COWAN, from the Convention of the Royal Burghs
of Scotland, in favour of.
lirroxiCenno Liutroue.—By Mr. A. HASTIE, from
the &Milk T pstaraa Leafs', praying that a commit-
, tes be appiliffisi gegalee Mtn the mew for checking the
me at
thavymerrr Tam Btrz.—By Mr. CRAUFURD,
from umbers of the Tree Church inhabitants of the burgh