The Express.
London, England, 1862-07-09 00:00:00

IL ZENOS AND THE BRITISH STAR.

Mr. MAGUIRE mired the Under Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs whether he would lay upon the table a
eopy of the further correspondence between the Foreign-
and Mr. Zenoe in reference to the suppression of the
Britian Star.

Mr. LAYARD replied that there WRI no intention to lay
say further correspondence on the table wish regard to the
suppression of the British Star, and for this reason, that
there had been no such 'oppression.
Mr. MAGUIRE—Has there not been a correspondence
between M. Zeooe sad the government upon the subject of
the Braisla Star since the tune the question was last before
the home

Mr. LAYARD—There has been a correspondence, but we
have no intention of laying it upon the table.

SITIN FOR PLACES OF WORSHIP (IRELAND) WI,.
In reply to Mr. LEROY,
Mr. if`MAHON said that as he could have so hope at
this late period of the session of carrying this bill, be did not
Wend to proceed with it,
GYMNASTIC TRAINING IN SCHOOLS.
Led ELOHO rose to move the following moieties' :
"That the physical, moral. and economical advantages
arming from a system of physical training have been clearly
shown in evidence before the Royal Education Commission ;
that it is expedient for the increase of the bodily as well as
the mental aptitudes of children for civil, industrial, as well
as for possible military service, that encouragement and aid
should be given for the extension of the practice of sys-
tematised gymnastic training, and for teaching military and
naval drill as now practised in the district halftime schools
for orphan and destitute ..bildren, and in other schools for
pauperi children." By affirming his resolution, the house
. stamp with its approval not something wholly
new and untried, but a system which already existed
and was in successful operation amongst 5,000 or 6.000
of the population round London, and the effect would be
to extend throughout the country a system which would
eintributo to the health, happiness, and wealth of the
people, and to the prosperity and security of the empire.
Mr. ADDERLEY seconded the motion.
Mr. LOWE observed that even after the elucidation it
bad received from the speech to which the house had just
listened, be found the resolution of the noble lord very
obscure. His impression was that they already gave
quite enough out of the public revenues in aid of the
voluntary system, and that if they went much further
they would destroy the voluntary system altogether,
The principle was exceedingly dangerous because it went to
the whole root of education, and for all these reasons be
hoped the house would not assent to the resolution.
Mr. ADDERLEY thought nobody could dispute the ins-
portaoce of the proposition of his noble friend, but he felt
that in its present form it oat not of a sufficiently practical
character. He would suggest that it should be an instruc-
tion by the Committee of Council on Education to their
inspector% to institute the use of gymnastic exercises for
boys in all schools aided by government grants. If his noble
friend would add these words to the resolution he should be
reedy to support him. He must say he thought the right
boo. gentleman opposite bad exaggerated the expense of
each a grant.
The motion was negatived without • division.
THE WAR IN CHINA.

Mr. WHITE rem to move the following rest-lotion :
" That it is the opinion of this house that her Majesty's
ministers should direct the British authorities and com-
manders of her Majesty's naval and military forces in China
to avoid any intervention beyond that ateolntely necessary
. for the defence of those British subjects who abstain from
all interference in the civil war now raging in that country."
He had received • letter front a friend in China, who had
been g member of that house, in which he stated that there
was a mo.t earnest and sincere desire on the part of the
Taepings to come to terms with the government, and the
British government had only to will it and the thing wag

done. Mr. Consul Meadows stated that the Manchow
dynasty had received its death blow--first from the Bri.
tisb, and next from the combined British and French at.
tack, and that anarchy and insecurity pretailed. After
the gai bling and suppression of official documents in the case
of the Affgban war he did ant place much confi-
deuce in She Dine books, although he had quoted
from them. But what he wished to know 'from
the noble lord at the head of the government
was, who were to pay the expenses! (Loud cheers.) He
put this question in the interest of the British taxpayers.
He bad endeavoured to trace what had bees the ostensible
policy of the home government, and the actual conduct of
their authorities in China. He had abstained from de-
nouncing the conduct of their officials in China ; but he well
knew if it was a policy of aggression, it would receive the
support of the noble lord, for every aggressive attitude on
the part of British officials abroad always received his sup-
The last China ear had coat this country over
F.:0110,001X, and that was not even the end of the expense.
He wished to know from the noble lord whether they were
going to have another war. (Loud chews,)
Sir L PALK said as long as they could trade with the
Chinese it ought to be a matter of indifference to them who
ruled in China—whether Imperialists or Taripiop He
trusted the noble lord would recollect that both sides of the
house bad raisedtheir voice to warn him against the policy of
continued interference in China, and if the result should be
• war, he should remember with some satisfaction that he
had been amongst those who had declared beforehand that
the course of the government on this subject was opposed
to the true interests of the country.
Mr. OREGSON understood the hon. gentleman to warn
the government against entering into • little war, but if be
was rightly informed we were not entering upon any war at
all, but were maintaining • system of perfect neutrality.
(" Oh, oh," and • laugh.) All we were doing, so far as he
could learn, was to protect the treaty ports. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. KINNAIRD had expected that his hon. friend would
have brought forward • much stronger case than he had
done, seeing the length of time his notice bad been on
the paper. He deprecated motions of this character, and
could not suppose the house would countenance them. It
appeared to him that nothing could be so objectionable as
for the house, ignorant of the facts and circumstances, to
pass resolutions characterising what was going on in China
as a war in which this country had engaged.
Colonel SYKFM defended the character of the Taeping
chief.

Mr. LAYARD believed that the policy which the
English government bad permed was the one beet cal-
culated to prevent war. They had no sympathy with the
imperial government at Pekin. Their sympathy was with
the Chinese people, one of the most industrious and merito-
rious people on the face of the earth. What would have
happened if they had allowed the Taepings to take possession
of the treaty ports? There was no organised operation
amongst the Taepiogs, and there was no apprehension
that we should be celled upon to defend the six-
teen porta at once. But suppose the Taepings
were in possession of the treaty ports, would they re-
spect the treaties ? Certainly not. On the contrary, they did
not understand obligations, and we had no treaties with
them. We should then have been on bad terms with the
I imperial government, and on bed terms with the Taepings,
unless we had been content to give up seerythiog we had
gained by the recent war. The only chance of oreserviog
peace, he believed, was to defend the treaties, and give all
the support we could to the imperial government to put
down the rebels. That he believed to be our true pohcy,
and a policy that was consistent with our interest. He
should, therefore, oppose the motion.
Mr. COBDEN said if he had felt some apprehension with
regard to our relations with China before his hoe. friend
the Under Secretary for State addressed the bouts, that
apprehension was now very much increased. His hon.
fneod told the house he would inform them what the policy
of the government was. He confessed he left him in a
mere as to that policy, but if he understood him correctly
he thought he had promieed 'them engagements which, as
him hon. friend the member for Brighton said, they should
hear something of hereafter, and not only they
but their children. There was one fallacy run-
sips through the whole of his hon. friend's speech,
and that was when he spoke of the Chinese government.
Now, there was no government in China. Any hon. gen-
tleman who had read the blue books with any attention
must have arrived at the conclusion that there was no
government exercising the force of a government in the
Chinese empire. If (said the hon. member) we take • mode-
rate view of the business we have and may expect with
China, I would ask whether it is worth the risk of entering
into the gigantic symem of intermeddling which the boa
member has just disclosed ? He has told us of three dif-
ferent • one is to take possession of the eustoni-hoi
and the revenues of China ; the next is to defend
the treaty porta, and the other to send officers for the pur-
pose of drilhag the Chinese. With regard to the fine, !think
he said we sbouldgive them some advice in reference to their
finances. (A laugh.) We have sent commissioners to look
after the finances of Turkey ; we have lately interfered to
support finances at Morocco; and now we are undertaking
to give advice as to the finanoes of China at Pekin. If we
grupon this system we shall soon require some shrewd
.:. or Swiss to come and look after our own financial
affairs. (Laughter and cheers.) Doe'tlat the noble viscount
say "here he is wanting us as usual to abandon Eng-
lishmen in China and to give them up to the
Taepings." I admit that where you have established
Englishmen as merchants you are undoubtedly bound to
protect their property and their lives to tbe utmost extent
of your power. (Hear, hear.) But it is unwise to establish
British merchants where you are pretty sure to involve
them in collisions with the people, and where their estab-
lishment is sot likely to be attended by say national ad-
vantage. (Hear, bear.) If we had not gone too far already
for a remedy—and I am not sure that the noble viscount has
not carried us so near the edge of the precipice that even
his reputed dexterity cannot keep us out of the vortex—
I would say that we should do that which we ought to have
done from the first—have as little contazt with the people
of China as possible ; leave the business as much as pos-
sible to the merchants there, and have no political contact
with the government if you can help it. You have sixteen
treaty ports, and merchants and practical men tell you that
if you were to detach yourself from a great number of
those porta, you could do so without any disadvantage to
your commerce, without the slightest loss to this
country, while you would avoid the risk of coming in
collision with the people. I would therefore withdraw from
as many of them as you find not useful, advantageous, or
necessary, and concentrate your Made in that empire in as
few places as possible. A gentleman who has sent probably
one-third of all the goods from this country to China during
the last few years, and is now %ruder the roof of this house,
is of opinion that if, at tint, you bad had a free port at
Shanghai', another at a place midway on the coast, and a
third at Cant', and contented yourselves with those three,
you would have done as much trade with China as you
have done, soil at a comparatively insignificant expense,
hardly more than that of carrying on our business at Singa-
pore. The hon. member then said that the statement of
the hon. member might well appal every one who looked
to the future for himself or his children ; that every step
the government were taking iu their prieetit course involved
them in fresh difficulties said responsibilities, and rendered
the Imperial government more powerless to control the
rebels. (Hear, hear.) By their interference they prevented
the only remedy for anarchy. and confusion being resorted
to, because the suffering arising out of the elements of
disorder would prove to a people with such instincts as
the Chinese the necessity of looking to some leader who
would establish the government on some secure basis.
Lord PALMERSTON said that if it were true that the
wars waged by England against China undermined and de-
stroyed the imperial government, and gave encouragement
to the Taepings, it was our duty to make amends by
endeavouring to re - establish that authority we were
said to have destroyed. He agreed with Mr. Cobden
in the fundamental principles on which our inter-
course with China ought to be carried on, namely,
that oar proceedings should be confined to trading and
commercial transactions ; but if our merchants west
thither of their own accord, still it was the duty of oar
government to protect them. Mr. Cobden urged that no
attempt should be made to penetrate into China, but that our
traders should remain on the coast and trust to trade coming
to them ; but that was not the opinion of the mer-
chants in China, who were desirous of access to the interior
of the country in order to enlarge the sphere of their
operations. The government of China was now headed
by an enlightened man, who was aware of the value
of intercourse with those with whom his country
traded; and there was a great improvement in the trade
with the country, and this would not have been effected
unless we had established a mission in the capital. He
justified the course taken by this country in assisting to
regulate the finances of China, and stated his ignorance of
any causes which were calculated to bring on a great war
with that country, when all our action was directed towards
assisting and strengthening, instead of opposing and weak-
ening, the Chinese government.
Mr. WHITESIDE said that the noble lord bad not an-
swered the temperate argument of the hoe. member for
Rochdale. All be said win, that he made war with China
justly, and that be would now interfere to remedy the
mischief his policy had created. Such a noires was preg-
nant with mischief, and he hoped it would never meet with
the approbation of that house.
Mr. WHITE in reply, said that the main "P-
-aint which had been used against the present policy
in China had never been answe.ed, namely, who were
to pay for the expense of it. The small surplus of 170,0001.
calculated on by the Chancellor of the Exchequer would soon
become a large deficit, whilst by teaching the Chinese the
use of European weapons they were training them in the
arts of modem war, which would be surely put into practice
against thoneaelves hereafter.

-The SPEAKER having put the quertion,
Mr. WALPOLE said he wished testate in a few words
why he could not vote for the motion. it was giving direc-
tions to the government bow they were to act with regard
to circumstances of which the house did not know all the
benriogs. He should thereto-, vote against the motion.
But according to the policy now announced by the Mader-
Secretary of State, and confirmed bythe noble lord, they were
actually to take part in the civil war in China, with a view
of restoring law and ceder in that country. In the words et
the Under-Seastary, they were to give their sympathy,
their advice and aritano•—their sympathy with the
Chinese empire, their advice on the state of the Chinem
finances, their assistance in collecting the revenue for the
imperial government. (Hear, hear.) They were also to aid
the imperial forces with lewd to the 16 Warty porn with
which they were now at liberty to trade. If Wavers so,
they were innivieg themselves in • Mate of war; for war
of course it would not be against the Emperor of China,
but of hostility of the wont description, for we should be