The Express.
London, England, 1847-07-09 00:00:00

CHARGE AGAINST MR. HUME.

Mr. SPOONER gave notice that iiw hi islestisa to-
morrow (this day), to bring under the soda of the Mese
certain conduct on the part of a member of tint bones—the
bon. member for Montrose—in a matter wia !swot to

which he thought it probable that that hon. member*would
feel it necemary to afford some public explanation. There
was a general cry of " What is it ?" but the hon. member
having resumed his seat,
Mr. B. OSBORNE observed that it was scarcely fair to
the bon. member to give a notice of this sort without some
further explanation.
Mr. SPOONER said he bad written a note to the hon.
member for Montrose, explaining to him what were the facts
which he intended to bring under the notice of the house.
NAVAL MEDALS.
Ia reply to a question from Adm. Bow Lia,
Capt BERKELEY mid there was no intention to alter
the order in council relative to the models.

IRISH RELIEF MEASURES.
On the motion that the order of the day for the cosnatittee
on the Destitute Persons (Ireland) Bill be
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose, and
said that it was his inumtion now to MOTS& TOW for a further
advance to the extent of 340,0001. towards the meaner/ for
the relief of Irish distress ; and as in the course of twoor three
days he should have to propose the last vote on this matter,
he should not fulfil his duty if he did not enter into a detail
of what wee the state of the relief afforded dosing the year
past, and of what might be anticipated and expected (or the
future. It was right, also, that those in this country who
contributed so hberally towards MA relief should
know how their mosey had been spent, and that in
Ireland, where there were some tumours of a renewal
of the agitation kir repeel, the people should be made
fully aware of the benefits which, for many =oaths
past, they had been receiving in comoquenoe of their
union with this country. Them opossums, as the house
was aware, began In the spring c 41846. Early in that
year large works were underteken —depots were established
and employment upon relief works was afforded. The relief
works were for the moot part discontinued is August; in
September 12,800 only ware employed upon them. The
cart lithe entire promedings dunsg hot year was as follows :

Expended on works
474,000
Expended on Works wider Grand Joey Prementaits 100,000
Lass upset the pureban and Ws of Provision.
Gnats to Relief Committee.
Salaries to rakers l,OOO
Total 4704,000
which was met-368,0001. by loan, and 366,0001. in the
shape of advances. Towards the don; of last maim a
was made in the system. The public works were con=
but the system of half-grants having led to exorbitant de-
mands, it was ordered that the entire payments should be
charged upon the baronies. Very soon after parliament was
up,"the general failure of the potato crop became known,
and the conhequeem was, a sate of alarm and despondency,
which resulted in a great number throwing themselves upon
the public resources for aid. To so great an extent did this
occur, that even at the time of harvest a vest number of ap-
plications were made to the government to commence the
public works. The relief committees crowded the works to
an inordinate degree, putting upon them many who should
not be there, so that in the county Mayo it was even said
that the wealthier inhabitants were on the works whilst the
poor were entirely without employment. There could be no
doubt that this pressure for works on the part of the gentry
was dictated in many cases by feelings of humanity, whilst
in other instances it was occasioned by intimidation. The
consequence was, that an immense number of persons were
crowded upon the works. In the month of October
an average of 114,000 wereemployed ; in November, 220,000;
' in December, 440,000; in January, 570,000. The government
1 in vain endestronred to check the expenditure. The whole
burden of the check being, however, thrown upon
li the government officers occasioned a large outlay in that
I direction. In January the government announced their in-
tention to put an end to the works altogether. The imme.
diate effect was to increase the pressure for the time. In
February the average number at this sort of employment
was 708,000, in March 734,000. The expense of the staff
was very great, averatgt
adnot lees than 22,0001. a week. By
the last return this c e h become reduced to 5,0001. a
week, and since July he s ould observe that the staff had
been entirely discontinued. In the month of March the go-
vernment took the step of dismissing a large number of the
persons employed. They found that the seed time was pass- I
ing rapidly away, and they ordered, upon the llth of March,
that on and after the 20th of that month 20 per cent. of the
persons employed should be dismissed. This was carried into
execution with little dilbulty, In the month or Maya further

redaction weirmsolved upon, sad from time to time slam there ,
had 111 w other rebidding metimealstastesa In
the int week of Apra. the wisher wee
in the bet meek of 1ft:449.0001 in week
10h111114 eel le tb• Weer Jens. 203, The Ixed
eiperldieutt 'Mee was 1930,00010 • eketi. etMb
week were 4kawa4 .hediseowleeed yr weekee owe
its ibia Mite be which they imakl be we I
left. Led 'hoe' he Must remark that mend the I ,
seenthsee had applied to him to know to what extent these
weeks would be completed. Last year it wasin that
the peweareat weld waplete all they awl
keep' the sweraweet hewed a di that
sash Ismael themoutempamed theemenypertierked 011941
under • ombery intpre, and, consetptaitly, claimed the
somplOkia by grournment of the works they had oom.
named. Anticipating a similar demand this year, he (the
Cheeedier of the Exchequer) had directed, so long
epos se the 4th of October last, that • most distinct
wieekg abseil be given that every relief work would
emerkh per we the 15th of August at the latest If,
delleallem, He proprietors in Ireland wished to complete
weeks which had been commenced under the sanction of the
Allard of Works, they must apply to the government under
the provisions of the Landed Improvement Act (Hoer,
hear.) The whole amount which had been expended during
the year—that was, from the 15th August, 1846, up to the
.fie when the works would cease this year—might be taken
se MAW. The works were now being wound up, and
weld be all terminated by the date he had mentioned. So
MS* for relief as connected with public works. In the
year 1846 the government established 21 large depots for
ewe La Ireland, besides numerous smeller depots at oath
elwitehelary station. The grain purchased and sold was
SION qrs. This year they had established depots at 34
Melbas on the western coast, and had purchased and
meld 300,000 quarters at a cost of 600,0001. Up to
the end of Kay they had received payment on
amount of these sales to the extent of 215,00 W., and
of wane there were some large sales in June and July.
The less, pebably, which would accrue upon these transu-
de= Pali sot exceed 200,0001. It was right to add, that
=trek et this corn had been purchasedin the home
The government had always endeavoured net to
interfere with private trade, and so far as their partialness
went not one single complaint had been made by any one
private trader in the country. They had also bad a number
of
stalls at work at Deptford, Portsmouth, and other places,
amides some private mills on the river side, by means of
whisk they had been enabled to keep. up • stock, and been
k a 'sedition to supply food wherever it was wanted. Besides
thew public depots, there were also fourteen depots which
they hid taken from the British Relief Association. The
goverment, finding that private bodies actin independently
of the government produced much inconvenience and con.
&Rion, they arranged to take charge of the corn in the
depots established by private subscriptions on the southern and
eastern coasts, and to distribute the produce on account of these
bodies. Intik, manner the government had taken charge of the
grain sent from America and other quarters to a very large
extent. Another mode of relief had been the establishment of
local oom mittees in Ireland, 1,479 of which were now in opera-
tion under act 7 of the present year. The effect of this system
of relief had been most satisfactory. The general health was
improved in a very marked degree. Colonel Jones, writing
within the last week or two from Skibbereen, gave a meat
gratifying account oh the health of the population and of the
rising prosperity of the town. Of Valenti', the same gen-
tleman reported that fever was disappearing from that place,
and that the cams which remained were of a very modified
form. Lastly, writing from Galway on July 1, Colonel Jones
said that a stranger would not judge from the look of the
population that any want of food had bean experienced, and
that the market-women were all of them bringing
in poultry and other produce for sale at reasonable prices.
The reports from the constabulary showed that whereas not
long since deaths from starvation had in many places num-
bered twenty-six in the day, four deaths attributable to this
cause did not now occur in a week. The reports from the
constabulary further showed that, as compared with April,
the number of crimes in June had fallen off more than
one-half. As to the cost to the public, the change of system
had operated a great saving. In the four weeks preceding
the change from payment on public works to the distribution
of rations, the amount paid was 1,200,0001. ; whereas, in the
four weeks of June under the latter system, the amount ex-
pended had only been 539,000/. The plan of distributing
cooked food only had proved a most effectual check to
abuses which previously prevailed. When raw meat and
unprepared meal were given out the recipients were con-
stantly known to sell their rations and get drunk en the
proceeds, leaving their families to starve. Two hundred and
seven hospitals had been established and seven dispeasa-
rim and the fish used in them had created a demand
the that article of food, great quantities of which were
procurable, under doe encouragement, on the western coasts
of Ireland. The entire expenditure on the part of the pub-
lic was, he rejoiced to say, under the estimate he bad form.
edy seeds. He had calculated that ten millions would be
expwled, but the amount applied had been only 9,350,000,
aampletinithe grants for this purpose up to the ensuing
r which the Irish people must rely upon the
=leer the purpose of enabling the rates to meet this
.wade racy, the government would postpene any present-
meats for the repayment of loans
.until the spring anises.
Poe theparpose of promoting the river drainage of Ireland,
be ohoald propose to advance 120,0001. from the Board of
Works in behind, 240,0001. from the Treasury ; making,
with the exec already applied to this purpose, 430,0001.
thought the interference of the government
Medd been harm than good, and impede, instead of en.
imunge, the individual and national industry of the country.
There might have been some mistakes committed by the
gevemment in the vast and responsible, as well as novel
undertaking, of feeding the earring people of Ireland; but
on the whole the best had been done that circumstances so
entirely unprecedented admitted of, and great benefits had
resulted, as well as the most signal success in oaring the
population from famine and pestilence. He hoped that with
the coming harvest the necessity for all further efforts would
MOM What would be the effect of another failure of the
harvest It was not possible for him to predict, and therefore
he would not tonsil upon so painful a topic. With respect
to the course which he now proposed to the house to adopt, he
would merely give the general heads of expenditure and of the
mum to be repaid and remitted, and then move that the
house go into committee on the Destitute Persons
(Ireland)
ed Bill. The whole sum expended by the
of Public Works in relief was, in round numbers,
4,900,0001. The sum of 2,200,0001. had been expended
in soup kitchens, or, at least, would be expended
by the end of August, which terminated the year of relief.
He prod that one-half of the sum expended by the Board
of Works should be remitted, and a similar proportion of the
sum expended by the relief commissioners. The amount of
the former would be 2,500,0001. ; and of Sir J. BuToyne's
commission, about 1,000,0001. The cost of the staff of the
Board of Works and the officers employed ender it was
310,0001., and the amount of donations to the relief commit.
tee was 190,0061. The commissariat department had ex-
. ......

pended 250,0001. The whole amount of eximditure not to be
repaid (including a sum of 130,0001. which remained to be
expended up to April, 1848) would be 4,380,0001.
The amount which would have to be repaid of
the advances made under the 9th end 10th Vic., was, on
account of the loan, from the Board of Relief, 2,4500,0001.
From Bir J. Burgoyne's commission, 1,200,0001. ; making,
in the whole, 3,700,0001. ; and a further sum advanced for
the purposes of public works of 1,270,0001. The house would
remember that ha had originally taken the sum of
10,000,0001. as that which would comprise the whole expedi-
ter* required for the relied Ireland. The mlimatad expos-
ditties up to April was 9,350,0001., leering a berme ef
650,0001. in hand, which he did not anticipsie beim gelled
upon to lay out, but whisk ha reserved, in ease oiresmalemess
hereafter rendered it nerassary to maks further abet.
What he now proposed to do was, to propose a reselthlou
for granting a further ems as lean for imbue weeks sad
=ln Ireland, an Owe he would premed with the
la theutheleo hr_ the Immo etse=wee-haf
of the essewat oho* whoneed had
The Chows= pth the gessitha, fiat a NM at way
not mambos *
ala seaweed Is bar Mejeety the
oedema/at lima bias to oem= espied fee
on public
worts Purr
n Ireland. The eseetatisap wee agreed to, the house
resumed, and the chairman rembail.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that
the house do go into committee on the Public Works Drain-
age Bill.
81r J. GRAHAM complimented the right hon. gentle-
man on the cleeenees and lucidtiree of his statement.
He begged to ask with respect to the amount of expendi-
ture incurred under the statute of 9 & 10 Vict., whether
the root of ma-staining the 14,000 persons in the hospi-
tals in Ireland was to be defrayed out of the poor-rates?
Had any rates been levied, and, if not, bow were all the ex-
punge already incurred in this respect to be defrayed ?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained
that he had maid he was not aware if any rate had been col-
'acted in Ireland to defray the expense of the patients in the
hospitals, or to repay the amount expended in their main-
tenance. His knew there had been measures taken for col-
luting rates, but he was not aware that any of them had
been applied in repayment of the sums advanced by the go-
comment. In fact, none of the rates collected had hitherto
found their way into the channel for repaying the expendi-
ture made by government in supporting the people of Ireland. ,
Mr. B. OSBORNE said he was surprisedno hon. member '
had questioned the statement of the right hon. gentleman,
who had represented Ireland in colours such u befitted the
Happy Valley, or Arcadia. The grant of money had staved
off famine from Ireland, but its people were utterly de-
moralised, and he looked with horror upon the prospects of
that country during the next winter, for, notwithstanding
the millions that had been expended, ministers had riot suc-
ceeded in warding off the danger from that country, and he
warned them of the approaching crisis there.

Mr. LABOUCIIERE complained of the misrepresenta-
tion of the hon. member, in stating that his right hon.
Mend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had pictured Ire-
land so being like the Happy Valley. His right hon. friend
had, on the contrary, stated Lai conviction of the amount of
misery existing there, and he had merely asserted that the
measures taken by government, and the food that had been
distributed to the Irish people, had been !successful in saving
human life, and in warding off the frightful pestilence and
famine that were stalking through the land. If the govern-
ment were to be again called upon to deal with the subject,
with all the experience they had had, he did not think they
could take any course very different from that which they
had already pursued. The people of Ireland were suffering
under the most tremendous calamities which ever afflicted a
nation, and no measures less extensive than those adopted
could have met the magnitude of the evils which were to be
encountered. (Hear, hear.) As one of those who had an
intimate knowledge of those calamities, and who had been
charged with the administration of affairs in that country,
he heartily joined in the feeling of gratitude which bad been
expressed by his right hon friend the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer for the generous and disinterested co-operation of
all parties in this country, without distinction of creed or
politica, to enable the government to grapple with evils of

sea trlmlitful magnitude as those with which their fellow-
sublimes-bad been afilisted. (Hear.)
Kr. D..CALLAGHAIN said he felt great gratification at
the amnrusoe given by the ministers of the crown, that the
po god pruipsets Of behead were so mach improved.
its ils:K6 not, however, resist stating that the private ao.
soestilip }ad received Oran they country, had not smarmed
Keeminepereentations. He entertained cauelersble appro.
baseless as to the state of the potato crop, and wished to
urge upon the government the advantages of establishing
&Ott throughout the country in the event of a calamity
similar to that of last year overtaking the people. The es-
tablishment of dep6ta for the distribution of food was
wholly omitted the, year, and to that eirennistemet he
attributed the increased destitution and sufferings of Ireland.
He was aware he differed in opinion with many, but he con-
sidered the potato crop peculiarly suited to his fellow-
oountrysnen. They easily got credit for the land in which
the crop was planted ; it was cheaply sad easily cultivated ;
and if the produce was even tolerably far, a sufficiency of
food was raued to preserve the people from starvation. They
were now on the eve of a general election, but the ob-
servations he wished to make were not dictated by
any personal motives, for it was not his intention again to
seek a seat in that house. He conceived the subjects he
alluded to were of importance, and deserved the attention of
government. The relation between landlord and tenant was
especially entitled to consideration, and he hoped the go.
vernment would have a measure pseud ueimilating as far as
possible the law in Ireland to that which exists in England.
Lord G. BENTINCK could not allow it to be supposed
that he concurred in the statement made by the right hon.
gentleman the Secretary for Ireland, that if all that had
been done for the relief of Ireland was to be done over
again, no better course could be adopted than that which
was taken. He could not believe it consistent with wisdom
that so large a sum as 9,300,0001. should be expended for the
rel,ef of Ireland, and that comparatively so small a sum was
to be expended in works of utility, upon which either
re-payment of capital or interest was expected. It
was rather extraordinary that the loan of 625,0001.,
voted for the erection of Irish railways, of the repay-
' meat of which there was net the slightest doubt, was
the only part of the large sum voted for the relief
of Ireland, that was dont:7 and obstinately contested
In that house. (Hear, hear.) That was the only sum about
which an outcry had been made, whereas, it seemed, after
all, that it would be the only item which would cost the
English people nothing whatever next year. As to the
supply of food, he (Lord G. Bentinek) and his friends had
always been of opinion that the depOts for the administra-
tion of relief were insufficient in number, and that the
government were too slow with their supply of food, espe-
cially as they were well aware there was no other means by
which the lives of the people could have beet preserved. If
the government had acted with energy or vigour in the firm
instance, and had adopted the suggestions of honourable
members of his (Lord G. Bentinck's) side of the house,
there would not have been that tremendous lees of life which
had taken place, but the dreadful calamities which betel the
' people would have been got over with a very small compare-
tire sacrifice of life.

Lord J. RUSSELL explained the statements made by his
right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer as to the
course the government would again pursue if placed in a
similar position with reference to Ireland as that with which
they were compelled to struggle last year. What the right
hon. gentleman said was, that in the main they had no came
to regret the course they had taken. The late government
had tome to the same conclusion upon the subject that the
present government had formed. Ile differed from the hon.
member for Cork as to the advantages of cultivating potatoes,
and repeated the hope he had frequently expressed that the
calamities from which Ireland lately suffered so severely
would induce all climes in that country, especially members
of agricultural societies and influential farmers, to show the
people generally the advantages of turning their attention to
the cultivation of other crops than potatoes, and that they
&gold not for the future look to that esculent, as hitherto it
was, as the chief means of their support.
Mr. DISRAELI said that every gentleman upon his side
of the house understood the right bon. gentleman the Chan.
cellor of the Exchequer to have said that upon a general re-
view of all that had teen done with reference to Ireland by
the present government they should again, if an opportunity
was presented, adopt the same course they had already taken.
The noble lord admitted that the course of policy indicated
by his noble friend was the right one, and the only sure in-
vestment made was the investment made on the principle
advocated by his noble friend. He would not unite in a vote
de want of confidence in her Majesty's government with
respect to the course of general policy pursued by them to-
wards Ireland, but notwithstanding that general approval,
they were at liberty to advocate the principles maintained by
his noble friend. He believed that experience had fully
proved the truth of the views propounded by his noble friend.
The noble lord the member for London said that the govern-
ment were right in following the course they pursued, but
when they told him that they were right oa the one hand in
not doing anything, and on the other hand for not doing all
that could be done, he would leave them to that golden me-
diocrity of which they were so proud. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. LABOUCHF.RE could not allow the statement to
pass by ancontradieted, that experience had proved the course
of policy recommended by the noble lord the member for
Lynn to be right. The noble lord recommended two manes ;
one was the introduction of an extensive system of railways
into Ireland; the other was an interference with the pew
vision trade of that country. If these two coursed had boss
adapted, he believed they would have produced irreparable
mischief. It was one thing to apply the system of free-trade
to circumstances in which it was applicable, and another
thing to apply it to questions beyond the principles of' that
science. He did not think that those were the real friends
of free-trade who would rigidly apply its doctrines to such a
state of things as prevailed in Inland when there were
3.000.000 of persona starving. (Hear, hear.) But to apply
the artificial system of the noble lord opposite would be to
substitute the watering-pot for the shower. Mew, hear.)
After a few words from the CmArcaLLoa of the Ex-
CUIMIUnR,
Kr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN begged to recommend the
observations of the right hon. gentlemen the Secretary for
Ireland to the attention of the right hon. gentleman the
member for Manchester (Mr. Gibson) and the hon. member
for Wolverhampton, both of whom were members of an saw
elation which proclaimed the doctrine that free trade was fit
for all times and circumstances. It now, however, appeared
. .

that • distinguished member of a free trade goverliment was
of opinion that the system of free Ueda would not apply in a
case of emergency, and that the old system was better than
the new.fashioned one. (Hear, hear.) He was ready,
however, to admit that the!government were actuated by the
beet possible intentions towards Ireland. The government
committed two errors in his opinion ; but the second was •
reproach to the first ; for if the 9 & 10 Viet. was success-
fill, why substitute for it the soup kitchen act?
Mr. P. SCROPE rose to express his strong hope that in
any future emergency in which they 'eight be obliged to
carry on • system of relief—if another 10,000,001 was to be
expended—and such a possibility appeared to be by no means
imporible—a system of reproductive works would be carried
on, and that the cultivation of waste lands, of fisheries, and
arterial drainage, would be encouraged.
Sir R. FERGUSON said, that unless the gentry of Ire-
land worked themselves, little benefit could be expected in
Ireland. (Hear, hear.)
The resolutions were then agreed to; the house resumed,
and the report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow.
POOR REMOVAL BILL (No. 2).
On the motion that this bill be read a second time,
Bir G. GREY opposed the mend reading, and hoped it
would be withdraws.

Capt. FITZROY supported the ►ill, and wu anxious
that It should be passed : but be consented to postpone the
farther consideration of it till Tuesday next.
The house adjourns(' at 10 o'clock.