The Express.
London, England, 1847-01-29 00:00:00

could not rest where It now stood--en appeal having been
fortunately made to the right tribunal. There and there
only was he prepared to enter into a full explanation of the
point peculiarly affecting the hon. mi rulttr, and there he
would be ready to give that explanation which his sense of
duty prevented hid from offering on the present occasion.
t The right hon. baronet, who spoke with remarkable cool-
ness. was much cheered on resuming his seat.)
Dr. BOWRING, in explanation, observed that he be-
lieved it was owing to a complaint he had made of the
manner in which Mr. Mott had conducted the inquiry
into the state of things in Bolton, that that gentleman had
been dismissed. At leant he had looked upon his dismissal
as an acknowledgment of the truth and justice of his com-

plaint.
Mr. DISRAELI quite agreed in the reason of the right
hen. gentleman for not giving an answer to the charge,
namely, that that house was not the proper tribunal.
But where had the question originated ? Was It before the
Lord Chief Justice of England to whom the right hon.
gentleman had appealed ? No. The hon. member for
Knaresborough, without political connexions, aim at a soli-
tary member in that house, had been dragged forward under
circumstances so remarkable that they were not likely to
recur very soon again in the history of the country. They had
then at the head of affairs the most powerful minister of the
last century, and who might have remained the most power-
ful. But, as Hippocrates had well observed, too much pros-
perity sometimes made a man insane. (A laugh) Well,
they had this powerful minister and his Mace-
donian army arrayed against this solitary indivi-
dual, who chose to express what might be a rude
but what was certainly an honest conviction.
He could not have appealed to a generous opposition to sup-
port him, because, at the time, the opposition minty con-
sisted of a predominant party, which that t. dividual had par
ticularly offended—the manufacturing party between whom
and the government V the day there existed, though not
announced, a virtual alliance. Under such circumstances
was it that the hon. member had been brought forward as a
victim, and that the house had placed upon its journals •
resolution not to his dishonour, but to the dim:mite of the
house itself. Such language, in such a form, ought to be
reserved for high criminals, and not used as a punishment
for a mau in his position. When be saw that that man,
bowere r he might be in error, had, for stating his honest
conviction upon a great subject of great national interest,
and for expressing, against the most powerful individual in
the country, the feelings of his heart, been solemnly re-
corded as a calumniat or by the assembled Commons of Eng •
land, be oould not persuade himself that it told well for
their reputation : certain he was that it did not tell well for
their political courage. (Hear, hear.) It was now said that
the matter should be settled before another tribunal. He
did not deny it, for be could not for a moment suppose
that the hon. member fur Knaresborough appealed to the
house for its interference in the present state of the question.
The right hon. gentleman stopped the question at once, but
after what had passed, he (Mr. D'lmaeli) took it for granted
that there would be no delay ' he took it fur granted that
Mr. Lewis would appear in the witness-box, and the question
would bo settled for ever. He hoped that his
honourablo friend, after the speech of the right hon. gentle-
man, would not divide the house.
Mr. ROEBUCK said, that the question came before the
House in this simple form. A member of that House had
charged a minister of the crown with suborning em of his
officers to fabricate a false report for the purpose of destroy-
ing the character of that member. They were then told
that the matter ought not to bo brought before
the house. The operation of this law was said to
be directed by a minister, so as to make it bear unjustly
on the poor. Was that house not the place where
such a charge should be sifted and brought home to the mi-
nister, who was said to have acted so base a part ? Wu it
not the special mission of that house to protect the poor from
such bane proceeding* on the part of any minister?
Mr. NEWDEGATE advised the hon. member for
Bath not to peraevere in • course of conduct in that house
which was such as to induce the country to believe that he
was not so kind and honourable in private as he really
wan.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the hon. member for Shrewsbury
had told the house that when he came down to the house
this evening he found that the hon. member for Knares-
borough had left out a moiety of his motion, and that in
doing no he had exercised a wise discretion. It was ap-
parent from the speech of the hon. member that he thought
that if the other moiety had been omitted also it would
have been equally discreet. (Cheers and laughter) He
(Lord J. Russell) never knew a motion which was
less to the purpose of the business of the house.
It was a motion compounded of various questions which had
been already decided, and by stating over and over again
the grounds of those questions the hon. member seemed to
think that he could induce the house to inquire into matters
which had been already considered, and on which the house
had given its decision. With regard to the charge that the
late Secretary of State and the poor-law commissioners had
conspired to prepare a false report, as the hon. member for
Bath truly said, it hadi been considered, and the house had
come to nearly a unanimous decision. As far as the house
was concerned, that question had been disposed of. What
made it peculiarly improper that it should be introduced
again was that the matter was pending in a court of law; and
the house having done its duty, the future disposition of the
matter did not rest there, but in the Court of Queen's Bench.
With regard to the case of Mr. Clements, it was heard at
the time, and the house, with a full knowledge of the
facts, decided upon it. The hon. member for
Knaresborough, in order to eke out his invec-
tives, brought forward the documents published by the
Andover committee only for the general purpose of casting
blame on the right hon. baronet and the poor-law commis-
sioners. As regarded this, he would only make one observa-
tion. Tho hon. member for Knaresborough had quoted
Mr. Cosmic as an authority to prove the severity of the con-
duct of the poor-law commissioners, and blaming them for
making improper appointments. But the evidence given
before the Andover committee was conclusive as to
one thing—namely, that the servants of the poor-
law commissioners bad not acted with the fidelity
that became them. (Hear, hear, hear.) He (Lord J.
Russell) did not know how the sacretaries of state were to
carry on the duties of their offices aatisfactorily if the under-
secretaries and subordinate officers were to behove in the I
manner which it appeared from the evidence given beim
the Andover committee that the gentlemen holding came
under the poor-law commissioners had done. (Hear, hear.)
With this reflection he should dismiss all the charges against
the poor-law commissioners, which were founded on
the evidence of their subordinates. With regard to
the poor-law, it was beside the question of to-
night whether it was a wise enactment or not. It
might be a tyrannical law, but the right hon. baronet and
the poor-law commissioners were bound to act honestly
under it, and administer it as well as they could, and it was
his (Lord J. Russell's) belief that they did act honestly in
its administration. The hon. member fur Knaresborough
might be sincere in his denunciations of the law, but it was
carrying forbearance towards sincerity too far, if, because he
was sincere, he might be allowed to say that false docu-
ments had been procured to deceive the house. (Cheers.)
Sir R. PEEL had no wish to enter into the discussion of
this question, particularly as it was pending in a tribunal
which was better adapted to deal dispassionately with it. He
should have made no remark but for an observation of the
hon. member for Shrewsbury, which seemed to impute to
him (Sir R. Peel) that he had used any power he might
have possessed to wrong the hon. member for Knaresborough.
If any other member of the house believed that the charge
was well founded be would refer him to the records of tlu
transaction, and then ask him to decide whether he (Sir R.
Peel), had used any power which the position he then occu-
pied gave hint for the purpose of wronging the hon. mem-
ber for Knaresborougb. That hon. member made a
against the Secretary of State that, for the purpose of
mg an independent member while in the discharge of his
parliamentary functions and duties, a minister had induced
his subordinate officers to make a false report. This was not
the only charge ; there was another against the hon. menhir
for Beverley, that while acting as chairman of the seise
committee for deciding on the 'Nottingham election, he ha
sided the government and his right hon. friend in unseating
' Mr. Walter, thus violating his oath by an unjust decision.
Those charges were noticed not by him (Sir R. Peel), but
bg • member of the house, who inquired if those so e
Wooded to remain silent ? The hon. member for Bever el
and his right hon. friend came forward to meet those
charges. It was his (Sir R. Peel's) duty in the position he
then held to offer his advice to the house as tot become they
were to pursue. Who overheard of a minister of the Crown to
whom the house did not look for advice is its proceedings) If
those proceedings were referred to, it would be found that he
had advised the house to act with forbearance. When the
charges were first brought before the house, he advised
that there should not be an immediate decision, but
that some delay should take place. He thought
that the honourable member for Knarcaborough would
either admit that the charges were unfounded, or
substantiate them. He repeated the charges, but declined
to give any satisfactory explanation. A second time he (Sr
it. Peel) advised that the hon. member should be called on
to appear before the house. lie did so, but still persisted in
his charges, and it seemed to him (Sir R. Peel) that the
house could have taken no other course than they did.
It became his duty to move the reaolutiens, and so far from
their being pasted in consequence of the exercise of any in-
fluence by him, he believed that no resolutions were ever
carried with greater unanimity of feeling in that house, and
nothing could be more unjust than to my that he had used
as undue influence, or been actuated by any vindictive
feeling. (Hear, hear, hear.)
Mr. CHRISTIE exculpated Mr. Jenkyn Jones, and con-
cluded by stating that he never entertained an idea that
the right hon. gentleman (Sir J. Graham), had sent Mr.
Mott down to make an incorrect report as to the Keigbley
Union. (Hear. hear.)
Sir C. NAPIER bad moved for the committee after the
hon. member for Knareaborough had dragooned the house
into the appointing of a committee, Mating that he would
prove before it all the assertions be had made. The hon.
gentleman was a member of that committee, and made no
objection to any member on it. Hu (Sir C. Napier) believed
the report to be a very fair one.
Mr. VILLIERS said the manly and candid manner in
which the right hon. baronet (Sir J. Graham) had met the
charges which had been made against him rendered it un-
necessary to say a word more on the subject--(hear, hear)—•
and he merely rose to my that the charges which the bon,
member for Knaresborough had made against Mr. Lewis
were unsupported by one tittle of evidence, and he believed
they were utterly false. The charges against Mr. Mott
were, he believed, equally unfounded. (Hear.)
Mr. FERRA ND, in reply, said he would not press his mo-
tion' since the right hon. but. (Sir J. Graham) had stated
that both Mr. Lewis and himself would appear in
a witness-box ; that was all he wished ; and
he hoped the trial would, at once, take place.
The right hon. baronet said that he had had an opportunity
of examining Mr. Mott before the committee, which he did
not avail himself of. He had not bad that opportunity, for
it was decided that he should not be examined as to hie con-