The Express.
London, England, 1851-03-15 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 15, 1851.

Sir R. INGLIS thought it woald be desirable that the
noble lord should let the hou-e understand when he in-
tended to proceed with the contemplated measure rewarding
the disalilities of the Jews.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I have already postponed my mo-
tion until Tuesday; and, of course, I will take the earliest
notice-day for bringing it on in the order in which it stands.
Mr. MtkOltE de,cribed Lord J. Russell as eager to dis-

pose of business requiring consideration, and a"artly with
that which should be done with speed. If government ,
meant to persevere with the Aggmaion Bill, he should
consider no course of oppositiou ill.timed,hosrever factious.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR thought that the government had
acted creditably, a serious charge being made again.t them.
in proposing to postpone the financial business until the
di-cum/on on that charge wan over.
Lord J. RUSSELL —lt is necessary that I should explain.
What I did state was, that on Friday the 21st my right
hon. friend would propose any alterations he has to make in
the financial arrangements of the year ; that I should then
proceed with the army estimates; and that on Monday, the
24th, we should proceed with the question as to the conti-
nuance of the income tax. The right hon. gentleman the
member for Stamford (Mr. 'terries) has given notice with
respect to the income tux ; and as on Tuesday. the 25th, a
vote of censure on us is to b.• proposed, I thought it for the
convenience of the house, even more than for that of the
government, that we should not take the discussion oa the
income tax the very day before the discussion on a vote of
censure. (Ilea:, hear.) I have therehwe proposed that the
financial arrangements should be delayed until after
the 25th.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS was of opinion that the public
business could never proceed properly until they did away
with that regulation which required forty nwinbers to coat-1
stitute a house. (Loud laughter.) Fur instaneehe had had
fixed for yesterday (Thursday) a most important motion—
(great laughter)—important because it referred to a matter
in which 7,000,0001. of the public money was involved;
and in con•equenee of there being " nn house" he had been
unable to bring it on. (Continued laughter.) Ile would
take the opportunity of going into committee of supply to
enter upon the subject.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. might be
permitted to say, a. the hon. member (Mr. Williams) had
referred to the matter, that the money which he had stated,
in the terms of the motion he hail had on the paper, was
expended without the authority of parlia-cent, was, in
great part, expended in conformity with distinct acts of par-
liament ; and as to the rest of it, in strict conformity with
old constitutional principle., dating from the very first vote
of supply by parliament. (near, hear.) As to the "no
house," he would say that he (Sir C. Wood) had been
greatly disappointed that there had not been an opportunity
of a discussion.
Mr. T. DUNCO'aIIIE wanted to know upon whom do.

prove they were not illegal at cosmos.. lie (lbK
Earl of Arundel) submitted, however, that the present bill
did nut affat these bulls at till, but only the titles—it only
afr.rted what was left legal by the bill of 1839. (Hear,
hear.) It wa, a retrospective bill for things lawfully done.
Ile admitted that the reason of the noble lord for not
legislating on the subject of bulls was perfectly just,
and with regard to an infringement on international law,
, the way to receive it was by negociatiou, and not by passing
a bill in this country. (Irene, hear.) There had been a
great deal said with regard to the pastoral letter of Cardinal
Wiseman. That pastoral lion. members should recolleet
was addressed to Roman catholics only, and it was natural
to call on the Roman catholics to rejoice. It was a matter
of congratulation fur them that the hierarchy had been
estabashial, although protestanta might not envy their
joy. Sumo expressions in that pastoral had not
been regarded as they ought to have been. The
form of • government" assumed was spiritual authority,
although by the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) it had been
denouuced in an as,uraption of territorial authority. The
use ut the word "govern" was quito a consistent one. It
was quite a natural expression, and was used by other
bashes of religionists besides Roman catholics. The govern-
ment spoken of both in the pastoral of Cardinal Wiseman
and in the rescript of the Pope, was entirely of a spiritual
character. What, he would ask, was the difference to parties
out .if their faith whether the Roman catholics were under
bishops or vicars aptolical ? They would never have known
the difference but for the disturbances lately created. (near,
hear.) They should have gone on, and it would have
Wetted no one. 1 he catholic, had no legal force, no power,
no money, no temitoralities, nothing. It hail bean said by
the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) that the church claimed
jurisdiction over every baptised person. So she did ; but
had she the power to enforce it ? Rad not the same claim
been put forth by the vicars apostolieal, and did not every
priest put forth the same claim if there were no
other priest in the district ? The noble mealier
then alluded to the fact that a large number of peers,
baronets, priests, and other influential parties had 6:krned
addresses of thanks to Cardinal Wiseman for having ob-
tained the hierarchy ; which proved that it was dedred on
behalf of the Roman catholic body. Ile proceeded to ask
chat would be the effects of legislation on the subject. One
result would be evasion, and was it right fur statesmen in
that house to . a law which might lie evaded. lie (the
Earl of • el) had seen in Ireland the evil of a conscien-
.

-nit question. (Ironical Ile Mamie... .....
that cheer from the treasury bench. IS was said that open
confession was very wholesome ; he was snaking it now.
His vote was not a vote on tile merits of that question, but
it was a vote of want of confidence in the ministers. He
WAS prepared to record other such votes, and he would tell
them that if he were not prepared to do so, al-
though his own conviction went with him, he dare
not show his face in Ireland. (Hear.) He was asked
very recently, outside of the house, this question—" Surely
Mr. Reynolds, you would not think of voting against the
ministers, where you thought they were right ; do not vote
against them on all occasions." Well, he said, it was a
very hard dose to swallow, to be compelled to vote against
a motion he believed to be right, but he had read the
history of former parliaments, and he had read somewhere
that former parliaments had withheld the supplies, not
because they were prepared to say to the soldier or to the
national creditor, " You ought not to he paid ;" but be-
cause they were not prepared to trust the money to the
ministers. He was prepared, so long as this insulting
asure was on the floor of the house, to vote on all occa-
sions in order to mark his indignation against the govern.
meta that could make so unwarrantable en assault upon
the creed of himself and his fellow-colliery's/en. The
Irish members hail no power of originating a reel-,
sure for the good of Ireland with the prospect of carrying it.
But he would tell them what they. had. Bearing an mind
that the two great political parties were 'warty balanced,
they believed they had the power of deciding which of the
two great parties should occupy the treasury bench. And
now he would make an offer he might as well say he was
in the market. (Hear.) lie was to be bought. (Laugh-
ter.) And he thought he could sell a few others who coin-
cided in opinion with him. Ile would tell them what their
price was. They were prepared to aid in transfering one
party from that bench and placing another party en it on
'these conditions—first, that they would abandon this bill,
totally and entirely abandon thebill, and that they would in-
troduce measures to save the millions of Ireland from dying
as they were doing at pee sent in the workhouses for want
of food, food being plentiful and reduced to a drug price.
He called on them to put an end to a system under which
220 paupers in a single workhouse in the county of Clare
had died in one week. (Cheers.) In the nest place he
asked them to do justice to the distillers and spirit dealers
of Ireland, and to place them on the same footing as the
foreign stealers. (Hear, hear.) Next, he demanded that
consider *stand as an t•-•--- • of

volved the duty of making and keeping a liou4e when the
government, on motion nights, happened to have important
bu-incsa on the paper ? Now the previou4 night the noble
lord had a mod important notice of motion on the paper in
,hich

/WWI evasion of ihu law ; and there war but one step from
a conientious CW(LiiOll to an open disobedient,* to laws.
Ile moved that the bill be read a second time that day
six months.
Mr. REYNOLDS seconded the amendment. The noble

they should Irelanci as au integral part et
the British empire, not for the purposes of aggres-
sion and oppression, but for the purpose of mak-
ing her what both Gad and nature Intended her
to he, the right arm of this empire, and not a drag-
....

respect to Jewish Disabilities, a matter WI he
last session promised should have his earliest t..,eention
this year. (Hear, hear.) He could not have had a better
opportunity of stating his views and intentions on this sub-
ject than fast evening; but it was clear that while the
noble lord could come down in breathless haste to persecute
the catholics, he was di-posed to treat with entire negl,ct
the Jews. (Laughter.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Secretary to the Trea-
sury was generally looked to as to the malting a house on
all occasions; for it had been found that when indepvudent
members having notices of motion on the paper and no
house before which to bring them forward, inconvenient,
often arose afterwards to the government in the conduct
of the public business ; be thought there would have been
a house yesterday, and when he asked the secretary, the
hon. gentleman said 11.., had used every exertion to wake a
house.
Mr. BARNARD said he had received—;hough not as an
underling—(hear) —a note, couched in rather a stronger
style thin wax usually adopted towards independent mem-
bers, requesting him to attend to assist in making a
house.
Mr. IIAYTER avid he bad not only used the ordinary
means on the occasion, but had come to the door where
he saw several members, but was unable to Min, Cuero
to come in. Ile (Mr. Ilayter) woo himself pre-
sent—(.. hear," and a laugh)—and he expressed to the hon.
member for Lambeth his regret that his efforts had been
unavailing in securing for the courtry the advantage of

earl (the Earl of Arundel) had handled the English part of
the question so well, that he (Mr. Ite)^nolds) deemed it
unnecessary to speak of that portion of the subject. Ile
would therefore devote thu few observations he should
address to the house to the Irish portion of the questioa.
lle might say in parenthesis that he could not express his
surprise and astonishmert that Ireland should he at all in-
troduced into the measure. Let him not, however, be mis-
understood, for inusinsels as the bill was calculated to
uppr...sx the creed of Komau catholics in the United
Kingdoms, he rejoiced that the bill also included Ire-
land, and his feelings -f pleasure on this point wore
deri%ed from the refiietion that in Ireland the
Roman catholic' WCPC strong and were able to
oder euustitutionail resisance to the hill, By her efforts,
through her represeatutins in that house, and by her in-
Iluenee through the meetings of her people assembled in her
comities and her parishes, the was able to speak in such a
manner as must entitle ler to respect and attention in that
house. Ile was well aware that those who in that house
wished the bill rejected atugether, had a most difficult part
to play, for the public mild in Great Britain had been so
math iidluund by a variety of machinery. Ile was not un-
mindful of the fact that the people of England had
been led astray by violent letters and by violent speeches.
lie could nut close 11e eyes to the fact that the
noble lord (Lord J. Russell) had issued a moat violent
litter dated Downiug-stree, sth November, and addressed
to the Bishop of Durham, tad on referring to the day—
Lord J. Hr The 414 November] Mc (Mr. Key-
.

chain 'on its prosperity as she was at present. (Cheers.)
As a Raman catholic member of that hone, he felt that an
open and wanton insult had been committed by this papal
bill upon his creed ; and, in saying that, he spoke with no
sectarian feeling. lie knew that this mighty United King-
(Min contained a population approaching thirty million
souls—of which 10 millions were Homan eatholics; 10 mil-
lions were episcopal protestant% and the remaining
ten millions were slit into all the sections into
which their common Christianity was split. They were
a mixed community of Christians, and, therefore, in the
name of God let them discountenance all pnecedings,
which, like the present, were not Christian proceedings,
but were calculated to divide man from man, instead of
snaking them love each other—proceedings which were eal-
culated to make the country—he spoke now of Ireland, but
he thought England was very little better—perfectly unin-
habitable. (Cheers.) Let them get rid, therefore of this
most aboard and mischievous measure, and proceed to
transact the business of the country. (Cheers.) Above all,
let them not furnish material to make them the laughing
stock of every civilised community ft Europe. (Loud
cheers.)
lir B. HALL had no hesitation in saying that it was
his btentitm to give his vote in favour of the bill which
hail'been propo-ed Isy his right hon. friend. (Cheers.) In
the course of this discussion one very remarkable feature
had occurred. It had been elicited by the speech of the
hon. gentleman who had just sat down, and who had boldly
and unhesitatingly declared that he and his, party were a

that hon. menther's motion.
ADJOURNMENT.
On the motion of Lord J. RUA,rI,I,, it wall agreed that
the House at its ri-ing do :oljoum till Monday.
ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES ASsUMPTION BILL.
Lonl J. RUSSELL having moved the order of the day
for the second reading of this bill, numerous petitions were
prosented against the bill, after which
The Kul of ARUNDEL and SURREY row and said,
that in moving the amendment of which he had given no-
tice, he would treat the bill, nut as in the form in which it

:CSSELL-1,- _ Ale (._ -
1101410 thanked the noble lord for the correction, for it
brought it nearer to a date to which he was
about io refer—the uuuiveaary of the Gunpowder Plot, It
scented LO him that the letter had been prepared at what
wit. cow...dyed a mo.t opportune time—when the tar, the
feather; and straw, and all the paraphernalia of the Guy
Fawkes party were abroad. lle was not unmindful that
the of London, in actuber preceding, addressed a
pastoral to those untkr his spiritual juri.dictien, in
which he used most Wolent, and, without mean-
•srsonal offence, he (Mr. Iteynolds) would say must

.gly deentreu
marketable commodity both in this house and in the count rte.
The hon. gentleman said that they were ready to dispose of
themselves either to one government or the other; but
before any one attempted to purchase them he thought it
would be well to consider the value which they put upon
thetmelves. (Loud laughter.) Why if they looked at the
conduct of tho frith party, they would find that ever since
the year 1832, when most of them became members
of the house, they had voted first on one aide
of the home and then on the other on every
kind of question, and that, notwithstanding their

at prevent Mood before the houw, but in that shape in whiel
it had been given notice of by the noble lord at the head 01
the government. It appeared to him that that would he
vethod, ^ d would produce no inconvenience

auelaradian, observations regarding the konian catholic
creed, although he (the bishop of London) preached to
tliellay portion of his pub•cta to be •
ss. .:. • - and moder-

loud prott,ts, they had supported the government in
the moat abject manner. (Cheers.) He believed that if
they bought the hon. gentleman, however much he might

the simplest method, and wow_ produce nu
Thin bill had been prepared during a period of great excite
ment caused by the creation by the Pope of a Itoman
catholic hierarchy in this country—caused by a change of
the spiritual arraugentents under which the Roman catho-
lies have hitherto lived—by a chug ge front bishops aped,.
heal and bishops in ordinary to a regul trly canstituted
hierarchy. This was called an intitlt to the nation, an in-
fringement of the prerugativea of the crown, and an in-
fraction of international paw. (Hear, hear.) Ile would
take a glance at wh it had been the condition of the Roman
eatholien in this country at various times since the period of
the Reformation. In the year 1598 the last bishop of the
faith—the bishop of Thum:a—died The catholic. had then
begun to labour under great dilficulties, and the anomalous
office of archpriest was rippointed. Even at that time the
catholies hail remonstrated, but the archpriest was ap-
pointed, and the Roman catholic' had been ruled by hint
and„his suer...ors until the year 16'2a. In I. 23 the demands
of the Roman catholic' for .imc episcopal jurisdiction be-
came more urgent, and one vicar-apostolieal was appointed,
by whom they were govermal till Ifi;fB. In Ifizgi four
vicari-apoetolical were aniointed, and the Pope, to use
modern phrusenlngy, parcelled out the country into,
four districts. These f rot vicars-apostolic,al remained
in office till 1810. In IMO the country wan divided into
eight districts and eight viears-apostulical were appointed.
These eight vicars-apostolic:kJ had continued to exercise the
functions of their tithe in this country until 1850, when
the hierarchy which hail caused so much commotion was
created. Why had the Pope created the hierarchy? Thee
all knew the irregularities into which any body, and parti-
cularly a religious body, got when regular discipline and
organisation was not in use amongst them. This had been
the position of the Roman catholic.. They felt all the in-
conveniences of an unestablishcd church; they were not
ruled in the ordinary way, and many irregularities had oc-
curred. Therefore, the catholics of England had petitioned
the Pope to grant them a regular hierarchy. lie (the Earl
" " • " ' of these -- and could

. temperate
ate in their language. Ville, however, he (Mr. Reynolds)
war aocaking of letters, be might say that there had been
another letter, also written in November—he meant the
letter of the right hon. beunet the member for Ripon (Sir
J. Graham) to Mr. Howard. The two letters, that of the
noble lord (Lord J. ltuoell), and that of the right bun.
baronet (Sir J. Graham) were now before the public, and
to the public he (Mr. Iteysolds) said " Look on this picture
and ou this Look to the Durham letter, and the
Graham and Howard letter." It was to be regretted that
the noble lord (lord J. Russell) should have introduced
this unfortunate bill. It was as bad a bill as ever was pro-
' a for non-payment. (Laughter.) He (Mr. Reynold.)
had heard with satisfaction the able, eloquent, and liberal
speech of the right hon. baronet (Sir J. Graham), and he
was gratified to and that the some noble sentiments had
been expressed its another place by Lord Aberdeen. (Hear,
hear.) It occurred to him (Mr. Reynolds) that the people
of England had twain), to read and digest thew two
ses.thcs—they had been comparing the Durham and the
Graham letter—and he would say this, that the people of
England were not to be gulled at all times. They had been
gilled often, but he (Mr. Reynolds) felt persuaded that on
this subject they would .vinputhise in the liberal sentiments
of the right hon. baronet (!:4irJ.Graham) and Lord Aberdeen.
,'llse title of bishop was nit a territorial title at all. lice I
'Majesty possessed no power to make a bishop. According
to the form, at all events, the deans and chapters were
called upon to el..ct bishops, and her Majesty contents' the
barony. The diocese was the liarony, which was the'
territorial power, and the barony gave the seat in
the House of Lord and eouverted the spiritual peer
into a legislator. Now let any one ask this ques-
tion in sober seriousness,— had the I'opc given
Cardinal as Archbishop of Westminster one acre
of land ? Übe au Irish phrase, the bull had not given
him as much as would sod a lark. (Laughter.) Nor had
he a right by law to claim any ecclesiastical due, not a far-
thing. He lived now, as he (Mr. Reynolds) hoped he and

ught rise „,
be swayed in nutters affecting Ilifferent 'lemons—arid the
hon. gentleman had told them that unless he opposed thb
measure he dared not show his fare in Ireland (hear, hear)
—he would be excommunicated if he did. (Laughter and
cheers.) lie would generally he found supporting the govern-
ment whatever government might be sitting on the treasury
benches. (Cheers.) ills noble friend who hail opposed the
measure had done so in a most temperate and admirable
speech, and one well calculated fur the very serious occasion
on which they had met—for a very serious occasion he Mt
it to he. (First.) His noble friend had told them that ever
since the year 1.198 there had been a demand fur a Roman
catholic hierarchy in this country ; but surely the Pope's re-
fusing togrant one wasa proof that it was quite unnecessary
for the purpose of spiritual government in this country.
That being the ease, he (the hon. baronet) asked why the
l'opc now, in the year Mil, came forward and made this ag-
gression? (Item, hear.) There was no neceemity what-
ever for the appointment of aces. The old constitution of '
Mears apostolic was admirably adapted to the wants of
the Roman catholic, in this country, and there was no
cause whatever for the change, except fur the purpose of
giving more power to the Roman catholic bishops in this
country. (near, hear.) If he were a member of the
Roman catholic body, he should equally protest against this
4L,Ntimption on the part of the Pope. (Chews.) In fact, what
did they, the protestants of this country, do when one of
their own bishops attempted to introduce a bill for the
purpose : f giving extravagant powers to the episcopal
bench, such as the Pope was now attempting to confer on
his bishops ? Why, they came forward and protested
against the proposition; and, therefore, he was not saying
what he would not do, when he declared the course he
should take if he were a Roman catholic. (Rear,
hear.) It had been stated that the feeling which
had been manifi.sted was not the feeling of the
people of England ; but he could only look upon
such an assertion as puerile and absurd. A paper which
had been laid or the table a day or two since, and which

of Ariindellhail signed one petitions, ..,_
not have imagined that by such acts they could be
accused of infringing the prerogatives of the crown or
the independence of the nation. (Hear, hear.) Had
they then been accused of this he could have said that this
was not in the least their intention. After some difficulties
the hierarchy had been established, and they had been told
it was an insult to this country. The noble lord at the
head of the government (Lord J. Russell) had urged, both
in and out of the house, that the government had not been
informed of the Pope's intention. lie was surprised that
the noble lord should complain of that, after the manner in
which he had spoken on a former occasion, and after what
had transpired in that house between the noble lord and
the hon. baronet the member for the University of Oxford
(Sir It. Inglis). So long ago as the 16th of February,
ISIS, the hon. baronet the member for Oxford University
hail drawn the attention of the noble lord (Lord J. Russell)
to the subject, and had stated the intention of the Pope to
create bishoprics in this country. On the lith of August
of the same year the noble lord had hail his attention called
to the subject while the bill regarding diplomatic relations
with Rome had been under discussion. On that occasion
the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) having had his attention
drawn to the matter for months, and nosing matured the
policy which he proposed should be pursued towards the
court of Rome, laid down what he (Lord J. Russell)
thought a right policy, not only with regard to Pope Pius
I X., but the Pope whisever he might be. In the course of that
debate the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) had said, "An hon.
gentleman has asked me some questions with regard to
certain proceedings that have taken place. I do not know
whether he wishes to ask me now with respect to the
creation of Roman catholic archbishops in England. I do
not know that the Pope has authorised in any way, by any
authority he may have, the creation of any archbishopric
or bishopric with dioceses in England ; but certainly I
have not given my consent." (Hear, hear.) Therefore it
was useless to ask the noble lord's consent. (Hear, hear.)
" Nor should I give my consent, if asked to do so, to any
such formation of dioceses. With regard to spiritual authority,
the hon. gentleman must see, when he alludes to other states
in Europe, that whatever control is to be obtained over the
spiritual authority of the l'ope, can only be obtained by
agreement for that end. You must either give certain ad-
vantages to the Roman catholic religion, and obtain from
the Pope certain other advantages in return, amongst which
you must stipulate that the Pope shall not create any dio-
ceses in England without the consent of the Queen ; or, on
the other liana, you must say that you will have nothing to
do with arrangements of that kind—that you will not con-
sent in any way to give any authority to the Roman
catholic religion in England. But then you must
lease the spiritual authority of the Pope entirely unfet-
tered. (Hear, hear.) You cannot bind the l'ope's spi-
titual influence unless you have some agreement. (Hear.)
For my own part, I am not disposed to think that it
would be for the advantage of this country, or that it
would be agreeable to the Roman catholic., that we should
have an agreement with the Pope, by which their religious
-sogernents should he regulated." Now, had not the Pope

the catholic hierarchy would always live, on the voluntary
eoltributions of catholics. It had been said this was
...t insolent aggression. Now he ventured to say that
it :lie whole English vocabulary were examined, and
there were extracted from it all the offensive phrases
it contained, they would not find more offensive epi-
thets than those used by the protestant archbishops
and bishops against the clergy of the catholic church.'
Rehiring to the measure before the house, Mr. Bay-'
observed that the bill was emasculated. The se-
cond and third clauses were omitted. The first clause
stated that no Roman ecclesiastic should assume
the title of any diocese or place in the United
Kingdom. Now what did the act of 1820 say ?
The 24th section said it should not be lawful
for any Roman ecclesiastic to assume the title of
any canting diocese under a penalty of 1001. This bill
went further, because it said " of any place." Now there
was no necessity to extend that to Ireland, because
the bishops there had never violated that clause. He
should be sorry that any one should charge him truly
with using intemperate language, or with making a threat;
but beansg iu maul that he was an Irish catholic, that he
professed the creed of seven-eighths of the Irish people,
1
and knowing their strong feelings, he defied that
house, if they should carry the bill in its present
shape, to carry it out in Ireland. They might carry it out
in England, but the Irish catholic, made common cause
with the English catholics. In Ireland they were 8,1 per
cent. of the oopulation, in England only 5. They did not
omit Ireland' from the bill, though it was understood there
was an under current that they should. If they had he
would have charged the government with cowardice, and
told them they were acting the part of bullies in
' attacking the weak and letting the strong alone.
But they were attacking both, and they would!
sink or swim together ; and be thought they should swim.
He had great confidence in the right hon. member for
Ripon, in Lord Aberdeen, and in the illustrious duke who
was at the head of the government when the Emancipation
Bill passed in 1829. lie believed that he would not allow
that great religious compact to be violated. And ha bad
great confidence in the declaration of Lord Stanley, who
said they ought to inquire before they legislated. Until
the ith of November last, Lord Stanley was the most un-
popular peer in Ireland. His name and everything that was
oppressive and tyrannical towards them were synonymous
terms. But the noble lord at the head of the government
had changed places with him. And when he stated that
he stated it in sober sadness, because he deeply regretted it.
He regretted it because for twenty years of his life he had
reelignoied the noble lord as the legitimate and accredited
head of the great movement party in this country; he had
always considered him as the talented and consistent head'
of the whigs When he entered the house he enlisted
under the noble lord's banners; he voted for him when
he thought he was right, he gave him the benefit of
the doubt when he had not made up his mind whether he
was right or wrong ; and he only voted against hint when
he thought he was wrong. He had changed his position.
(Law.' .Ulow him ' • ....if. The noble

had been move fur by his hon. friend the member for
Warwickshire, completely refuted such an idea. It showed
that there had been meetings in almost every county in
England, with one extraordinary exception, that of the
county of Kent, in which there was on archiepiscopal and
episcopal city. (Hear, hear.) Althnugh at these county
meetings hundreds and thousands bad met for the purpose
of expressing their loyalty to the Queen, the addresses
had b.een signed only by the lords-lieutenant ; and
yet there had been 1,600,400 signatures to addresses to her
Majesty, praying that measures might be adopted for prevent-
ing the continuance of the papal aggression. The hon. mem-
bee for Maya, (Mr. Moore) had asked why there was reli-
gious liberty iii Great Britain and nut in Rome? He answered
that it was because England was in England; but it would
have been better to have reversed the question, and asked
why there was not religious liberty in Rome as well
as in England? The reason was because Rome was
Rome because ltomc had always been intolerant.
(Cheers.) It was a fact, that protestants were
positively forbidden to worship God within the walls
of the Holy City, although persons had had the presump-
tion to deny that such was the case. (Cheers.) And sup-,
pose that protestants should die in Rome, the only place
where they were allowed to be buried was near their chapel I
at the very extremity of the city, and outside the walls.
(Cheers.) Even there note single prayer was permitted to
be said over the dead person ; no monument could be put
up over a departed father or child except with the permis-
sion of the Propaganda, and no inscription could be placed
on it, when erected, without their sanction. (Cheers.),
Sir H. W. BARRON—That is not the fact. (Cries of
" Order.")
Sir B. HALL reiterated that what he said was perfectly
true.
Sir H. W. BARRON—And I distinctly deny it.
(" Order.")
Sir B. HALL.—His noble friend had shown most
clearly and distinctly that the Roman catholic prelates had
done so. (Hear, hear.) They were the Pope's agents in
this country, and as long as they confined themselves
to spiritual matters he would give thorn every facility,
but when they interfered with state matters, they would
rite up and denounce them. (Cheers.) In the very admir-
able speech of his hon. and learned friend the Solicitor-
General last session, he said that such was the admirable
state of the law in this country, that if any persons felt
themselves aggrieved they had to lay the documents before
the Attorney-Oencral, to be read by him and to be in-
dorsed, if he thought there was a case, with " Let right be I
done." But he (Sir B. Hall) thought that in a case of this
importance it ought to he left open to every man to com-
mence proceedings. (Cheers.) If they legislated at all on
this subject they ought to leave every subject that felt him-
solved aggrieved to take proceedings without the interven-
tion of the Attorney-General. (Hear, hear.) In
making this observation he (Sir B. Hall) had
no doubt that he should be subjected to the
imputation of having acted contrary to religious freedom;
hut, as he had stated before, he was only arguing against
the by the of power in temporal things.

right
and the Pope's advises' a tto believe, that although (Laughter.) ~....ow him to correct himselt. ..._ _ ..... assumption _.: pope ,
the noble lord (Lord J. Rummell) was against the thing being lord had changed his position. The noble lord was now at !He thought that no one in this realm should 1;e allowed to
done, yet if it were done, he would nut oppose it ?(" Hear, the head of the bigots of the empire. There was not a I feel that he held a divided allegiance. (Cheers.) Any
hear." and " No, no.") Had it not ken an invitation to narrow-minded, vulgar, uneducated bigot in the land ' measure that should allow the Roman catholic greater free-
them to use entirely unfettered the spiritual authority which that did not glory in his name, and say he was dom in the czerci.-e of his religion than he now had—if any
this country left in their hands? Taking into consideration 1 the prime minister for their money. He (Lord such were capable of being given him—he would gladly
also that it was quite in amirdance with other things the John Russell) would teach the Pope and Cardinal support; but whenever an aggression was made upon the ,
noble lord had said, they hid no right to assume that the Wiseman that they were not to say anything; they were I rights of the crown, as was done by the establishment of this
prime minister or hi, government did really object to the I not to say black Is the white of my eye in this country. hierarchy, he should always be ready in spite of all his
creation of the., dioceses. It was said that the Queen's ; (Laughter.) The noble lord said he would do this. He political opinions, and in spite of whatever might be said
prerogative had been infringed. Why, had it been in. I gave them to understand ho would curtail and diminish against hint, to come forward and repel such attacks.'
fringed, when the proceeding on the part of the Pope had the temporalities of the pronsdant church in Ireland. (Loud cheers.)
effected nothing which the Queen could do—it prevented 'lt was said that the Pope. of Rome had neither Mr. ROT:NDELL PALMER announced his intention
Ur Queen from doing nothing—it touched nothing the'. spiritual nor temporal power in this realm. He be- to oppose the second . (Cheers.) H. was not in-
Quest could touch—it changed nothing the Queen could lieved that he had spiritual power, bat that he had sensible to the du of ditty public opinion in a natter

change. (Hear.) It only affected those whose conscientious not and ought not to have temporal power. And its of this importance ; end to the great amount of that opi
submission to the spiritual authority of the Pope was by was not clear to him, after theilivision on the motion of the nion which had been expressed upon this question. Ile
law admitted. (Hear.) The noble lord (Lord J. Russell) hon. member for Bucks, that the Pepe had nut some kind of coati:sm. d that if he thought such a manifestation of feeling
had told Clem that the law officers of the crown had de- temporal power. lie would say this, that those who thought were a dcliherat, and well-considered opinion that this
dared that the assumption of titles in this country was with him (Mr. Reynolds) would not swell the sails of a species of legislation were wanted, lie should have hesitated
illegal ueith sr at common tor at statute law, but that the minister who sought to oppress them. He voted for the before he ventured to address the house in opposition to so
bulls creating them titles were doubtful at eionmon law motion of the hon. member for Burks, and he wishedthat his large au amount of public sentiment. But from all la had
and illegal by statute law. It would not be difficult to ; vote should be construed not as a vote on the merits of seen, he was convinced that the public did not view it as a
--- that " -,,inmon law. He (the that question. (Ironical cheers.) He thanked them for mere 'Utical question, but as one of a mixed character

_
indeed, but in which the religious element preponderated.
(Cheers.) A great portion of the arguments which
had been urged iu favour of the bill had reference to
foreign nation*, and to the supposed breach of the
public law of Europe, and to the tine-drawn distinctions
between spiritual and Ceeklija<tiC.ll things; for which he
believed there was no foundation. (liar, hear.) 11., was
nut insensible to the differ...no: betty Boman catholic,
and protestant dissmters; but still Cie Pltll4 tube ap-
plied in great Immure to both. 'the dissenters were
allowed to make what local organization they pleased.
The free ehurch of Scotland, for instance, which hail come
into existence only yesta rday us it were, had separated into
parishes, court ”s,ons, general ussembites, and the like.
In fact, a more complete welt...jostled government could not
be established. (lieut., hear.) Now, it war quit, a Lai-stake
to suppose that episcopacy did not require symilie d aetion
as much as presbyterianism; tad, iu act, the episcopal
church in Scotland, which also held such synod*, had ban
excurited front the hill. (('been.) Ile was quit, willing
to admit that tic, foreign cootie, ti in of Cie lto.aan catho-
lic% was a ditHcalty. (Cheers.) Slid he could not see how
they could prevelit the !tont:lElV altering tit. ir system.
They must not forget that this questioit of discip7;se
WWI to Roman catholics a fundamental one. They
held the supremacy of the l'ope, the neeessity /.IC a priest-
hood, and even the papal infallibility ; and titer:fors
it was absurd to talk of is toleration whim interfered with
those questions. (('heers.) It was true ilia. the pro-
testant dissenters hod no religious &aim interfering
with their duti., a= citizens, eh: rear the Itotitau catholic.
in this country were, as it w. r•, a branch of a foreign
church. (Cheers.? It was a ditticulty ; but then they had
settled that question whew they granted toleration to the
Roman catholic*. (Ulcers.) Blackstone had treated
Hannan catholic priests or converts as gaiay of high treascot,•
and certainly, on abstract principles, it tuned he urgaed
that they were, 11.(1%11.1+,• they renounced their allegiance to
the crown; but then the tuition, in pa==ing the luleratiusx
Act, had declared that principle to be exploded. (t.'hi=
With reap, ct to the notion that the pa:ssl agisreoioa was a
violation of the public low of Europe, he thought that it
was founded on a total misapprehension of the hye-
na. in which the principles of religious liberty
were administered in thi= country, reel wad
perfectly distinct from that of other nations. It mod
have struck everyone that the last part of tile Kiterck of
the able lord (J. 11, sell) -- el the first. et, odie-

aft noble J (J. to-,cII) &woven, According
to the noble lord's slanuient it acce..ity part of the
law of Europe that every papal r.ocript should hove what
waa called a weal phi, et; but would tuc nobie lord adopt
that system ? sn, he would not. The t ttttt itry would nut
•

hear that our government should b•• at mixed up with the
Roman catholic syrteite as that; it would not choose that
their bishops should go forth with the sanction and autho-
rity eel the crown, aud tlmt government should convene
their synods. The pcoitestitut feeding ui the country would
revolt inftniaclv mot, oohed that than against wheat had
been done on this orearion. (near, hear.) boot thcre was
no middle course. Either the gooverunit tour% take upon
itself to give these privileges, political recognition, endow-
ments, and advantages of Oil: kind, and to come before
the country as saitelionitin; these arranioomentr, or clew
the Boman cathonies must bc. permioi. •; to make their
urrangements for tio.ogtso Ives, mil,.', nid, d, we
were prepared to praliibit then allege the r. In
Belgium the Pot, might crow,• as many bishops
as he pleased ; the rvernment only said —° It you nuake
more bishop, thus we think netiovacy, see won t pay for
them ;"--a very sensible ri.ow to Lk,. (1 i• er, har.) Our
Anglo-Saxon brethren nn the other side oif t h•• Atlantic did
net interfere in ;any way; they allowed the Pope tee send
bishops to his people, owl took no political recriglidion of
them. Even' the In .• stater: of South America' which,
under Spauirfi rule, lead 'recta connected by Convor4l et with
the Pope, that oomortLit w e. broken elf ley Pie ro•volutioas
and since then the Pope had made many new arrangements.
and estaldirhed tunny new bishoprics he those stater. t hen,
it wear said that the late act of the Pope, ice the manner of
doing it, was an insult to the Once'', All innovation on her
territorial sovereignty ;mil politieal power, and not mutely
an r ecclesiastical arrangement. lle co.onduly would not

aeologise fur the MAIM; in which this had been done. To
turn, it seemed like to many of the act., of :he Roman ca-
tholic church, arrogant and premitnytuou, kllear. hear.)
But that alone would not a gal lillsoo hgo.lAtion.
Ile did nut believe tie' thing done was int.3la as an insult.
Rightly or wrongly, it woo ouppu. tot t i he a *iritual
arrangement which be toreit l into ,ifect wahout
rgiving offence to the crown; and, v..10-th,r juenii able or Un-
justifiable, it was not an inttitt;unol ninth. fur did he
think it was a territorial invooion of sovereignty. The
true meaning of Cie whole thing was to orgais, a aitores.lll

•
episcopacy fur th.• Itunian eat' • y... 1.1.• ut this couetry
a very aitiervet thing front t..tritorial ,ov.rcig.aty. Ily the
bill as it stood, it' a free episcopal church wen fumed in

England tomorrow. itslushopu would he as nitwit prohibited
from the use of title. as thy Roman catholic bishop..
Mr. F. MAC -Why not call tit. in by their names ?
' Mr. PALM Eli said there wee' lliTil,'4111• a 11, II the eth-
cen of a church must be expressed by their
of vial titles; thtre mast Lc I4ollle f,lllll and (Aylo I% herelsy
to describe them : but the bill said thee, should 1w noue at
all; ;rod this appeared extremely absurd aml ty mink al.
((tear, hear.) Ile could not think that Or' use of such
styles and Wks we s either au :1,/1.1111116111 of tertitorial
sovereignty, or asy offence winter. r imainst the dignity
and authority of the crown. nail such hots, the real
meaning of the Popc's bull, the law officers of the crown
would never haw; told the noble lord that they could not
prosecute; for the net would either have lama high
treawn, man (acme puuishalffe with tine and imprisonment,
at the discretion of th collet ; and if juries had really he-
tiered that the muniug ui the act was 3.11 a.timption of
territorial soren ignty, thee would have had mo dillieulty
in convicting. But the iliffieulty sus that when men earn,,
to investigate the m afar they would have found that it h.al
no mich meaning ; taut, however the lauguime might fa-
vour the supposition, the tel doue was entirely f,rcign to
it. The distuntioa attempted to be drawn between vicars
:_tiermlic and the ti .w bishops was an :Mimed one.
The vicars apostolic had only been tolerated by the
law a very short period ; they had not come into exist-
ence by the consent of the crown. Ax to England, the late
act of the Pope was no doubt meant to present to the mem-
bers of the protestant ehurela, who wi re 'al deluded as to
think of changing the pure liberty thry had in it for the
erruiwous doctrines of the church of 'twee—it was meant
to present to theta the spectacle of a perfectly organists"
church, by way of contrast to the Chun", of England. On
that ground, awl fur that reason only, he did not sec
how they eauld he justified in passing a eirreise
bill. Ile did not ft ar the contrast, in which the
church of England had .'very pirsible advantage ;
and not the lessbetroie the ailvanct-t were made openly,
. .

. . -
and she was challenged to the field. They had a free and
open Bible; the masses of the population were with them;
they had money, political establishment, and everything
that could be thought to give ads:lntim, ; above all, they
had the truth. (Hear.) Under these eireunastances, was
it possible to imagine that the church of Englund was to be
destroyed, and that all the 1111.111WN were to be converted
against their will, because the Pope had thought fit to
change his vicars apostolic into bishops? It would but add
strength to the church of Englatid. For his own part, though
he could wish on such matters to defer, if possible to pub-
lic opinion, or to fiat public opinion with him, he should
yet not be satisfied that he had done his duty to the great
principles of civil and religious liberty, which he beta vcd
to he the principal glory of this country, if he did not enter
his protest against this bill. (Cheers.)
Sir It. H. INGLIS (whose opening observations were in-
audible in the gallery) said, that his hon. and learned friend
who had just coucluded his able, eloquent, but, he should
say, fallacious speech, appeared to him to have proceeded
altogether on fallacy, at least, as regarded his historical re
ferences. The hon. and learned gentleman had referred to
the Episcopal Church, to the Free Church of Scotland,to the
Wesleyans, and to the possibility of u five episcopal church
rising up in England, Mild inquired if we were prepared to
legislate as regarded the internal government of all these
bodies. However, the difference was, that whilst
each 'and every of these sects depended on its
self, the question at prevent to be dealt with was that
which had reference to a church which owed alle-
giance to a foreign power. (hear, hear.) The Weel. yens
fountainuertfua constituted uute dt the
t aintdoo
fundamentalrecognisefh nour tailne,d
it :tei'enr.t go authority,ot. of
hli.ctahher
the
cases
which
had been introduced by his hon. and learned friend.
(Hear, hear.) The church of ltumo admitted of
no salvation out of her pale ; and therefore she
was consistent in claiming control. He (Sir It. 11. Inglis)
did not wish to follow the noble lord in his allusions to
those Roman catholic peers who resisted the aggress:on:
but this he would say, that prominent in rank, and talent.
and character as were the noble lords who took an opposite
view of the matter, those noble lords who resisted the
aggression were in no way their inferiors. (Hear, hear.)
Here again he (Sir R. Ing11‘) could not help noticing the
manner an which allusion had been made to the expressed
opinions of the right hon. baronet the member for Itipon
(Sir J. Graham), as well as those of a noble lord (Aber-
deen) in another place. But unless he mistook his right
hon. friend—and he was certain he did not mistake the
noble lord—each of them discountenanced the griev-
ance of aggression as much as did the noble lord
at the head of her Majesty's government, or
any member who supported his views ; and therefore the
hon. member for Dublin had no great cause to console
himself on that point. Olean hear.) The difference
that existed in the minds of the right hon. baronet and the
noble lord was not as regarded the aggression itself, but as
to the way it ought to be dealt with ; for they still agreed
in reference to the amount of opposition and popular fill-
-• that had been -- ed. (II hear.) The hon.

ing
ont• ,11:11X, ,
baronet the member for Maryleboue (Sir B. 1611) hall in-
formed the house as to the numbers who signed the ail-
dresses, and these numbers considered in connexion with the
numben who signed hi the counties showed a numerical
array greatly exceeding any that had ever on a pre-
nous occasion addressed the crown on uny subject.
(Hear, hear.) In the commencement, what body
was it that first addressed the Soren ? Why that
very body of which his hon. and learned fiiend
(Mr. R. Palmer) was a member. Next followed a body not
very remarkable for their bigotry—tile attorneys and soli-
citors of the kingdom. ((hear, hear.) The hon. member
for Dublin (Mr. Reynolds) had talked of his (Si: It. H.
ki)io's) seediness to take an instalment in the present case,

sad he should than say he was prepared to take an instal-
avert of the principal. (Hear, hear.) At the same time
be was willing to admit he woo nut .itiatkil With the
'moral conclu-t of her Majesty's minister.. (Hear, hear.)
Ou the Ind of Ort•iher hist, the first announcement arrived
ist4lanil of this artreehm, and was there, than, no
wale in which cosernment might have stet the aggrision
which they now felt so deeply, without waitin.t to bring in
a bib on the Tth of fehruary ? Her Majesty should boos
Met the aggr....i.in on her Gunn, and realm, and dig-
nity, as well as on the ennwieners of her subjects,
by inning a prods:natio.. In the Roman churches the
reibeation ref th • boll loa 170• No wa. I.O:En to he a
Wien to the world ; and tonwiluently a pro Imitation in
Skis nontry should have a similar effoct, at least as con-
cerned the aggression. (Hear, hear.) There were other
steam by which the will of the sovereign could be con-
veyed to Rome. In February HMS a bill was brought into
the Mew fir regulating diplomatic intercourse with Itorne,
witch bill did not rec.ove the royal assent until the 4th of
the following liertember. In all that time minister. had
fall leisure to consider what the expediency of that mea-
nie• was; and in all that time the penitent England a:-
preened, with almost unanimity, their objeetion to the mere
sue- (Ilene, There were presented to the house peti-
tions signed by not lest than 3.500 of the parochial
clergy ; and he (Sir it. 11. Inglis) believed if the ininister
ennsnlted th- will of the people of England he never would
boor pers.,. red in pre,sing this nu..a•-ure forward. (Hear,
hear) The incentive obtained the royal ant rat ; but what
had toeen done sin,. Had they not shrunk from
diplonishe sat••reonrw with Wane. and suffered the Homan
bishop to invade this country, when by diplomatic inter-
n/line` they might have explained to the Pepe the nature
et ha escgre-rion and induced hint to abandon it ? (Hear,
hear) Therefore, it raise to this —that the government,
baying ?strained from ',suing a pmclamation, and haring .
eta refrained (nun diplomatic intercourse, had Deg-
lotted their duty in the matter. (lieu, hear.)
list a third alt• unitise- remained. The neat day of the gob.
eon be (Sir It 11. Inslis) suggested what orenered to hint
es
being the most effective mode of repelling the aincressiou.
Her Majesty had a fleet is the Mcdit• rrsnean. (A laugh.)
here was a place call, .1 Ancona on the Adriatic-- renewed
laughter)--which might he visits by her Maje.ty's forcea,
sad aeliploreatie r. presentative might he conveyed in the
aime way by the form-, of liellialet a. hy those of France
and Atetriv. (A laugh.) hot England would not do that
whirls but beet, done mon• than on. •• by Franco and
Austria. (liver, hear.) Th.... ill th.. event ofpruelarna-
tion failii.g, and diplomatic repn ntat.un failing, and
armed intervention Giliug, then. he repented, her Majesty
might mine to her faithful Commun. and people, and call
isio.n shim earl a in,warre the repremion
'it the insult r;fh•rell her Omit, soil nation. Meer, bear.)
In the event of the failure of the three mune" just named,
parliem••nt should have Men suninnined immediately. lhu
•an deemed or did not deserve attention. If it deserved
it in Fi bruary, sun ly it did in the previinis Oetober.
(Ileac, hear ) Ile could conceive no rtaooo to justify mi-
nisters in se••king council in February that would not have
justified them in October. (Ilea:, hear.) Let them first
colluder the stati• of the Inv as it was • and next, what
ought to i.e it. state. (Hear, hear.) Ile lied the opinions
..1 two ..f the most eminent lawyers in England on the
rend -the loin. and learned menther tor Newark, nod
an es•Eliancell•ir of Ireland—and both agreed that
the law hail teen violated in the ease of this
al4,to'nion• Now, if ministers del not consult the
law offir•rs of the crown in Inland, in reference hi the
vomiting' assumed by the 'lonian hierarchy in that
tanntly, they wore guilty of a neglect of duty. (lieu,
bear.) Ile admitted that of late years statntable penalties
am .Wll rage. hail been withdrawn ; hut he had yet to learn
if the common liw of the land was not competent to deal
with the late as/gr.-riots. Therefore lie believed the

~.
vernment might hair app. tail with every certainty of sue-
•
r,,, t, the common I.lw to defend the dignity or this realm
against Rome. (Iltar, hear.) If the rommtm law were
booth to he insuffieient, then immediate recount: might be
bad to parliament. But instead of that, three
root). ere"- permitted to clap.. before anything
wee done; mid in the end a 101 l was introduced
not at all suited to the neeemity of the am:ca-
rat. (Bear, hear.) The greater part of the govern-
ment measure hail been abandoned by la-marten, nut de-
feated by an aslyerie majority or Wag .... istie recline, but
abandoned heeause not found adequate to the iiliject in-
trnd..4l, and that, afar all the time and deliberation coll-
een...l in its preparation. (Celia of .. Hear, hear.") Ile
would not upen that oceni tttt speak of the detail. of the
bill, hat of the preamble lie might say that it wax nretrahly
ineuffinent to meet the nsmirement• of the CAA•. (Ilen,
hear.) It should hay,- "-cited the air of Ito hard 11. and the
lath of Elieisheth, and all thine previous statute. which had
been painted to out et former papal aggre-ion.. It should
have recited as the 'wpm drh,ti the papal brief and
the letter apostolic, and in the enaetinir party of the
bill 111.01.4• ntringent pont t i tttt ...Muhl have Weil intredueed.
Ili. noble friend should have summoned the cabinet and
relied parliament together at onee, and if that had been
found insutheit nt, he should have +(pleated to the couutry.
allheera.) Ilail his noble friend taken that course,
there could be no Mode —such was the feeling of the
country - that such an appeal would hay.- etrengthental
Ws hand. against the papal aggres ' . (Cheers.) Ile had
Man in that house heard tail:nations of the conteut and
delight with which the act of emaneipation had been re-
eVieeil. It was .aid that it would conciliate the people of
Ireland. but hi. noble trend intimated now that lie washim-
self demppoilited at the way in which arsine penmen hail
received the rerun-; awl they could not but remember the
numerous petition. which had been premmted from Ireland,
;warm: for a transferenee of the property belonging to the
established rhureh, sal It the swore not to interfere
such
with property. (Ilear, hear. Stleh Net was not
/
calculated to . in-mirage the loop e or Caiglitiel to • eon-
tatuamm of flit Inn...minim .Inch hail has n ill Ade to the
Boman catlethes. (Bear, hear.) The people of England
were united on this gut tit ' such A tit •e as they timer
before had heen, aiel their object was not inenly to awl
an smirk mi the crown of this country, but, believing that
the Pope of R. • bail been enenuratmsl in lb.• ,'rune he
edoptea by persons in high placea in that country--
that he hail been in some ilegae led on by the
silence of her Majesty's goyeninieut, end still more
helirs mg from the umuidakeable acts which hail taken
piece ii, the Australian colonies and the West 'Min that
her Mareny'e goveniment were nut nien•ly indifferent to,
lest were in faymer rather uf, the ancetulaney of the church
of It ~ they desired to evince their decidt .1 "ppm& to
inch a iNitif,• iii poliry. (('leer.) WA, it fit that the
elsuali of the tatieen -that church in virtue of being a
member of which she had held her throne- - (hear) -should
by placed in intlintfiliiritiOn to a church the bishop.. of which
had h, -ft apponited without her knowledge", consent ? ale
'matt. .1 that (hie measure did nut go further, but he kit
bound to gins it his support. '
Mr. lint' e tete'. l' i 'Arai rime to explain; but Sir It.
PINE laming risen at the earn.- time, there were loud en,. •
of - 14•11 member,- amidst whit It Mr. Palmer sat down.
Sir It l' al F.I. said he was quite aware of the responsible
nhararter of the task which he had to fulfil, in rising lei
early in the commencement of his parliamentary caret r to
tenant. en the attention of that an", (Cheers.) The
importance of the .object attar lli.4ll.Ailln 'minced him to
lay melts thime scruple. which, under onlin iry eireunt-
mane. •. would unquest ably have confined hint to a men-
formal expression of optiii tttt , and gave him boldness to
make an attempt to telgo-se the house. Po-sturdy, how-
ever, to submitting the few oh...nations which he natal('
have ocramion to take, he was desirous of so!ieiting that
rourttoue attt 'item and forbearance which WAS, he be-
lieved. invariably extended to those in whom favour,
whether from their inexperience in parliamentary
deliberation., or 4:1,4.11 in public *puking, corn,.
3110.44114.44 t might justly Is. made; and would that in that
b. I.'l aPP",lfir. MI (hi' door of that house hr might not
he altogether unsuceemful in the attempt to acquit h• -If
nit het our the importance of the cause which he nhould ad-
vocate and the dignity and charm-ter of that amerubly.
(Cheer. I Itelore entering on the discumnn of the sub-
ject le lan: the hon.,. he wi•hed, by a few preliminary ob-
....nations, ta establish the broad basis on which he
grounded hi. view. on religious subject*. mon- particularly
with r ..more` to religious toleration. It appear...l to him,
then, it atural to connive that man was a being endows-a
with all the faculties which were noettoary for the
ettetee,aishing "f shat w.. rept.red of hint. slthough
the peh by which one pursued his destiny might have ap-
pan
ti ly a totally different direction, or b•• -object to totally
did•oott appreciation.. trim the retiree shah another par-
aded In all wee given the power of rerton I'r diecernimr. I,
of con-newer for loving. and of liberty tor choosing, what ,
wan gnel• end reurding to the gradations of gills which
hal her.ll^Cclr.4 in the divine reunion! would all. he 1
imagist-4, he helot anountable. l'ennecelly he was an '
11114,1111/111.1111.1nr *lnmate tic that religion in which he had '
net only been .darted, hot which reason and nib- '
enitient estnelimione had taught him to 4.41114414.1. mast '
Ishii• to lead to an adequate interpretation of
the thyme will as espomed in the Bail.. Ile wr
prepare.' unlie.itatingly to take his *mat awl to resist an) I
attempt to marten, or to temper with the tt vetrines and the
epirttail denripline of the established 4 litirrh. (Cheers.)
But though lie held the protestant church to be the best, 1
the pares!. the meet free from idolatry, and the mummeries'
tdeupentititm, he did not on that tieemint wish to control'
the come-awn of others. Or to tleprirr, othr.r4 attic for'
pier -en' and enjoyment of whet they might consider to con.'
statute a meet *damn' rule of faith. (Hear. bear.) Ile re.
guided migieue toleration as a sacred prineipie of political ,
en MI. whirls acting iu unison with the trent caercise
a civil liberty. in so fee as the lathr could be •
rendered eompitible with the enteral int. nets of gaiety, '
had oeeured to this country the meet 4 tmplete spites of
government which the wisdom cad obsersation of man had
yet devtsed. ctlheen.) Ile hell, then are• that toleration
ought to be ettentled to till sect. and 'lasses of religious
thiaher., without any distant itm or hesitation being drawn,
an Matt as puhlie dreenry, anti the mace and tranquillity of
society, suffered not from the spread of their doctrines, or
their peculiar view* of relig. . Wan, thee, a state was
felled ulion to I. insist.- 'ti 'flatten atf, cling reeleeirtical
eencerits, whet delicacy. what (0.1.,..1.AnCe, what en.
irmspect ion was it not neeemary to employ so
as, while wielding the temporal sword to repine
abuses, to avoid shocking the spiritual susceptibi-
lities and estranging the loyalty or these whine religious
Marta might be, as was the rife in the United Kingdom, at
wartime with those of the great rnaferity of the people.
(Hear. hear.) Let them remember that religion was the
chief band of humaa society-lithe-at, hear) -and that his.
tory taught them, as well r eaperieuee derived through
their dipltienatie relations with forties, pnvers, that quar-
rels and dimensions about religion drew aliwu upon a na-
tion the greatest manila and nahimp d the whole tihr:e
of memty. (Hear.) While animated with the dieersion of
the manna Milan 1114. Loier it should •'. their desire to