The Express.
London, England, 1847-02-05 00:00:00

meet the more immediate and urgent premiere. That the
ffirmation of railways is Ireland would be of rest benefit to
Ireland. there could be no sort of doubt; but the question
immediately before Parliament was the Instant relief of
immediate diatreas. (Hear. hear.) The course of proceed-
lug in railway construction was this the company
having obtained its bill, made • contract with
• contractor, a ith whom proceedings it had nothing to do,
so that he performed his contract. The principal contractor
entrusted the various parts of the line to sub-contractors,
who in their turn employed the labourers without refeeonee
to the contractor. He (Lord J. R.) had inquired, with re-
ference to this Fubjrct, what were the conditions en which
the labourers were employed; and the tir-t condition wan,
that they should he ah c-badlied persons. These, alter a few
days' training, were, if effirient, engaged at wages of not
leas than is, 6.1. a nay, for tho time, and at the time, aid nos
the places where they were wanted. With a village at nay
dietanee from the range of the works going on at the time.
the sulecontraetare had nothing whaterer to do, how ever di. e
might be the misery with which it was afflicted, and as little
had they to do with giving emp!nyrnent to feeble-boilied
men, or to the old, or to women, whose labour was not of e
character to Corry on the works contracted fur with the requi-
site speed and efficiency. (Hear, hear.) It thereture op.
pear. el to government, that advances to railway eompaniee
were not the means of producing the immediate efisct act
relieving the distress that was daily and hourly bearing
dawn the population in Ireland. Again, on looking at the
mars laid before hint, exhibiting the routes of the proposed
railway., he saw that, very naturally, these went through
those districts where the least distress exi-ted ;
through the eastern and northern counties, which,
in flourishing times, were must flourishing, ant in times of
dist nu were 'east distressed. These pr riects, therefore, and
government aid to there, did not apply to those districts where
the greatest amount of destitutiou prevailed, and to which the
attention of parliament should be first applied. (Neer.)
Applications for assistance to railway companies in Ir, land,
in the shape of government a 'veneer, had been several [IMP
under the consid. ration of the late government, and had
been rejected. The great business at the present ailment
was to supply food where it was most needed. (Hear.)
Ile wind,' repeat that, with a view to the general and per-
manent improvement of Ireland, railways, there, were most
doeirehts, and he did nut, by any moans, uy that the public
anostonce aught 1.% all caws to be denied to such undertak-
ing. ; but, under the existing eircumerances, the application
of the imperial funds to such purposes might interfere with
expenditure ur,eently demauded. He should not oppose his
noble friend's bringing in the bill, if the house moved to line
it be.ore them in a printed form, but he must give his noble
friend distinct warning that he did not conceive the govern.
menu would be warranted in permitting its further prosier.
Capt. B. OSBORNE thanked the noble member for Lynn
for the able and energetic manner in which he had taken up
the cause of Ireland. He looked up ,n the noble lord as the
only party leader in that house, who had brought forward a
really great plan for the redemption of Ireland. (Hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK expressed his regret that the noble lord
at the head act the government should have permitted the in
troduction of a bill to which he himself said there were in-
superable objections. He (Mr. Roebuck) objected to the bill
in limine. And he would tell the house why. (Hear, hear.)
The noble lord, the member for Lynn, propose' that this
country
ithould employ sixteen millions in a certain specu.
Lilian in Ireland. Now, in ordinary cases, where the
employment of capital was left to private speculation, it con-
sisted of only the surplus wealth of individuals invested on
their own responsibility, but the noble lord's plan was not
to employ the surplus capital of the wealthy, but to tee
the whole people of England in nrder to employ capital iu
Ireland. (Hear, bear.) Ile objected to the taxing of the
people for purposes of this nature. Tax them for the pur.
pores of government if you will, but not for such purpos..s
as had been indicated by the noble lord. (Hear, hear.)
Had he not a right to ask Euglish gentlemen sitting
in that house whether they would allow their poorer consti-
tuents to be so taxed ? (Loud cries of " hear, hear.") The
noble lord at the head of the government had bed them he
would want nine millions for Irish purposes, besides two-
' and-a-half millions which had already bean absorbed in
presentments.
Lord J. RUSSELL—Nine, including the present-
ments—(so we understood the noble lord).
Mr. ROEBUCK.—The noble lord had said that seven
millions would be required between this time and
next August, for the relief of the Irish poor, and
that two millions had already been appropriated
for • distinct purpose. Add to this two and a halt
millions for presentments, and a total of eleven and a
half millions would he the result. (No, No.) Well, say
ten millions, and add the sixteen proposed by the noble lord
the member for Lynn, and twenty-six millions would be
found to, be the sum proposed to be appropriated to Irish
purposes. (Hear, hear.) Then, the whole national revenues
amounted to about fifty-five millions, ono half of which went
to pay the interest on the national debt, so that if the noble
lord's plan were adopted the remainder would be scarcely
sufficient for his Irish project. (Hear, hear.) It was ail
very fine to talk of comprehensive schemes, and to apply
link names to English members who craved some
consideration for their own heavily taxed country-
men, but let them look to the facts of the case.
In the town which he had the honour to represent,
he had been informed that the women were obliged in some
instances to strip their children, in order that they might
sell their rags at twopence a pound, buying food with the
produce. (Hear, hear.) If that fact was told of an Irish
district, there would be loud cries of sympathy from all
quarters, but referring as it did to the poor children of
Somerset:hire it was sneered at as extravagant d escription.
(Hear, hear.; he had also been informed by the officer
who went to the cottages to collect taxes, which by
the way were not levied in Ireland, that in many cases
the woman of the house had taken off her wed-
ding ring to satisfy the claim. (Hear, hear.) And
yet English members were moused hard-heartedness,
if they did not at once fall in with the vagaries of the noble
lord, the member for Lynn. That noble lord had pledged
mmething—his head, he believed—(a laugh)—thathe would
fill the bellies of the Irish people with mutton and wend ale
—that he would c'othe the men with the cloths of York-
shire, and the women with the cottons of Manchester, and
bedizen them with the ribbons of Coventry. The noble
Ink was to complete his work by filling their pockets with
English gold. This was all very fine, but what about the
English people, from whom the gold was to be taken ?
(Hear, hear.) There was Scotland, too, were her
people too to be maintained out of the English Trea-
sury ? (Hear, hear.) And yet he was to be ac-
cused
of malignancy and mendacity if he did not
at once accept the proposition of the noble lord. (Hear
hear.) If these demands for Ireland were misted in, he
should come forward and make a claim for the English
people. (Laughter.) He was glad to hear those cheers
because it showed that they were rapidly coming to a general
scramble for property. (Hear.) The noble lord's plan would
not avail as a remedy against the present distress, the object
of it was merely to tyke advantage of that distress, to press
the demands and advance the interests of the Irish landlords.
(Oh, oh, from the Irish members.) Yes, yet, and whenever
the appropriation bill was brought forward, he should be
ready with a claese, providing that not one penny of
the Irish grant should go into the pockets of •
member of that house. (Cheers and laughter.) In his
opinion the proposition of the noble lord, the member for
Lynn, was one of the meet marvellous ever made to the
British House of Commons, and therefore he felt vexed
that the noble lord at the head of the government had not
submitted it to the test of a division.
Mt. Ald. THOMPSON approved of the conduct of the
government in allowing his noble friend to state the sub-
stance of his measure to the house. The hon. and leaned
member for Bath was mistaken in supposing that the noble
lord proposed to tax the people of England fur the forma-
tion of Irish railroads. (Hear, hear.) What the noble lord
' proposed was thst the national credit should be lent to raise
16 millions for investment on good security--security suet,
I es would satisfy the railway board. (Hear)
Mr. P. SCROPE thought that the plan of the noble lord,
the member for Lynn, would have dovetailed very welt with
the government measures. They were at present spec d rig a
million a month in unproductive works, and would it not
be better that it should be applied to productive labour?
If they wanted capital to flow into Ireland, government
must take the initiative, and by establishing security for life
and property create the first element of success. He be-
lieved that if, in the present state of Ireland, they trusted
solely to commercial enterprise, they would in ten years
hence be no hotter off than they were at present.
Col. T. WOOD feared that if this measure were adopted,
it would lead to the adoption of • very dangerous principle.
He should certainly support the government in its opposition
to the prepared of the notier lord the member for Lynn.
Mr. lIIIME thought the noble lord (J. Russell) had scarcely
done himself justice in not stating the reasons upon which
the preceding government had refused to sanction the prin-
eiple of the scheme now suggested by the noble member for
Lynn. Those reasons Mr. Trevelyan bad explained to Mr.
Labouchere in a letter dated October last, in which he said,
that Sir R. Peel and Mr. (Methuen had rejected the appli-
cation to government to advance loans for the construction
at railways in Ireland, because such loans would not tend to
the relief of the destitute labourer, but to the benefit, only,
of speculative stuircholden; and that the only portion of the
expenditure in making railways that could he applicable to
the relief of the general distress, was that connected with the
earth-works, which amounted to not more than one-third of
the whole the rest being required for the purchase of land,
nala and legal and parliamentary expenses. They
st r, too, that if the railways did not pay interest
ea tribeeephal invested, they would become a direct tax on
tide country. It was to be regretted that the proposition
glade by the noble lord, the present chief commisstoner of
Woods and Forests, when Secretary for Ireland, had not
been adopted, and railways introduced into Ireland at an
soldier period. Had the great trunk lines been then formed
it would have led to • great expenditure of money, and ma-
terially assisted the labouring clone,. But it was the
country gentlemen of Ireland who were the principal
opponents of that plan. (Hear, hear.) But for them, be
believed it would have been, carried into effect. With regard
to the suggestion that the waste lands should be brought
into cultivation by the government, he believed any such
plan would be attended with 100 and ruin. He would say.
let such land be freed and sold, which it might be for 28
years' purchase, and let it be brought into cultivation by
private parties. The commercial principle to which the
right hon. gentleman (Mr. P. Scrape) bad referred would
then be brought into operation by the purchasers, who would
employ their own capital in improving the property, and
thus give employment to labour, and materially contribute
towards the regeneration of the country. But, being con-
vinced that no such effect would result from the proposed
scheme, he regretted the noble lord (Russell) had not been
so distinct in his opposition as to prevent any hopes being
entertained of the probable adoption of the plan at a future
time. The period had now arrived when government should
candidly and fairly tell the Irish landlords that if they did
not perform their duty and act as they ought to do, they
must not expect that anything could be done for them by
other. In the bills now before the house, he thought it was