The Express.
London, England, 1851-04-18 00:00:00

DA KOY EN (AN D.—Aooson

FINANCIAL AND PARLIAMENTARY

REFORH.

SPEECHES OF MESSRS. BRIGHT AND
GIBSON AT MANCHESTER.
A meeting, which has seldom been equalled either
for numbers, for unanimity of sentiment, or enthusiasm,
was held at the Free Trade Hall, Manchester, on Wednes-
day night, at which the speakers were Mr. John Bright
and the Right Hun. Thomas Miner Gibson, the two repre•
sentatives of the borough in parliament. They were
accompanied by Mr. George Wilson (the chairman),
Mr. Alexander Henry. M.P.; Mr. Henry Ashworth
(of {Torten), Mr. John Whittaker (of Hurst), Mr.
George Hadfield, and other leading gentlemen of the same
political party. Their appearance on the platform
was the signal for a buret of cheering and other ex-
pressions of enthusiasm such as, perhaps, never welcomed
them on any previous occasion, and it was prolonged fur
several minutes.
The CHAIRMAN said—Whatever difference of opinion
might exist before coining here as to the propriety
of holding a meeting at this particular season,
' think no one who stands on this platform and beholds the
state of this hell—reminding him so forcibly of old times—
(cheers)—will for one moms at hesitate in coming ti that
conclusion now. (Loud cheers.) Gentlemen, I need not
, remind you that it is most unusual to invite
our representatives to meet their constituents during
the session of parliament, and if nothing—for we won't
affect to deny it—of an extraordinary character had
occurred, we should have seen no reason to depart team our
usual rule at this particular period. But lam quite sure,
in the present state of parties in the Howe of Commons,
baring observed the narrow majorities by which the pro-
tectionists have been defeated—majorities of It and I3—no
man will hesitate to put this question to himself, whether
Reis not ju-t poe-ible, in the preeent uncertain state of
parties, for these same protectionists to propose a resolution, I
not for the re-institution of the corn laws, but for some I
portion, some composition of that system of monopoly which ,
we believe it was the intention of parliament, as it was of
the people, should be exterminated fur ever. (tercet cheer-
ing.)
) lam nut going to tell this meeting that we are in
alarm, or that we are in any fear or trepidation from
an impression that Lord Stanley is going, by any Itvews
,pwws or legerdemain, to re-tore protection. But it must be
evident, disguise it as we may, that we are fast approaching
le a general election. (Hear.) No man who observes the
divisions, the change.' of parties in the house, will deny
that such an event is approaching, and is likely to overtake
tie, if not immediately, at the close of the present session of
parliament. (Hear.) Here we are, with only three and a
half out of the seven years which form the natural period
of life for a parliament, with plenty of money in the
netioual exchequer, a large stuck of bullion in
the ilank, a prosperous trade, and everything
' favouring a 'tete of quiescence and peace in the
I country,. and yet we have a government from whose grasp
I poner is apparently slipping—at all events, a state of
things which will probably lead to a dissolution of parlia-
ment, and the time is coating when men will wit the:m-
-t:Ivo, who ehall he the parties next to govern, what shall
be the principles on which the future government of the
country shall be conducted ? (Cheers.) Now, under
these circumstances, ought we not, like rational men, like
people who have had some experience of political changes,
to ask ourselves how we am prepared fir such an event, and
how far we are in a position to defeat the pruto etiouiet., if
it should come to a hustiugs question ? It cannot be denied
that we have numbers, that we have the million+, in our
favour. It cannot he denied that the millions are in favour
of retaining those measure, which it has been the policy of
wise and beneficent state-men to give ; but, unfortunately,
those men who conceded these excellent measures,
neglected to concede the right amount of voting
power to the million., which would enable them to
meet their opponents un equal grounds. Bat this omission
of the R. form Bill as to the voting power is not all , we
have the majority of the electors in our favour, notwith-
standing the disadvantage at which the people were placed
in that respect; bat they are so placed, so distributed—so
largely accumulated in one place, and :es thinly scattered in
other., that the opinion: of large ennetitueneies are nen-
tralimel by those of small ones, and the n etiunal mind is
not repreeentoel. (Hear, hear.) We ore determined to
stand by the Manchester school, and are as deter-
mined to sec the principles of that school repre-
sentiol in parliament, as we are desirous of again
et sing prime ministers becoming our pupils—(laughter
and much cheering)—a statesman learning our cate-
chism. We look upon Manchester as the grand fortress
of free trade, of financial and parliamentary reform—
(cheere)—and we will defend that fortress against open
enemies without, and treacherous friends within. (Loud
and tumultuous cheering.)
The Might lion. T. M. GIBSON, M.P., on rising to ail
dress the meeting, was received with prolonged cheering.
Ile mid—lt has been my good fortune since I was re-
turned to parliament, in conjunction with any honourehle
colleague, to act cordially and unitedly with him in nearly
eve ry branch of public policy. (Hear, hear.) With Mr.
Colxku and Mr. Bright it has been my, happiness cordi-
ally to co-operate, since that time when first 1 met the in-
habitants of Manchester, not being then in parliament,
some ten years ago, before this hall WAS built, but on the
,pot on which it now stands, at the great Anti-corn-law
loseerue banquet. Sine- that time it has been my good for-
tune, in feeling, in deliberate conviction, to cu-operate in all
matters of public policy with my honuarable friends, Mr.
Cobden and Mr. Bright. (Cheers.) Undoubtedly, you
may say that there was an interval, during which, in con-
nexion with the present government, I was nailer the neces-
sity of appearing to take a somewhat olilf rent course; but
all I can say in reply to that is simply this—that when I
found that I could not consistently with an earnest and
sincere promotion of those views, continue my connexion
with the government, which connexion was not without
many aolventage., I gave up that connexion. (Loud ap-
plause.) The late sec-ignition of ministers has hod
a mind result, and I must say that I um inclined to give
the noble lord at present at the head of the govern-
ment credit for that resignation as a skilful political
manoeuvre. (" lkar " and laughter.) For what liae that
resignation done? It has laid bare the nakedness of the
land upon the opposition side; it has shown the world who
they are that compose the opposition at this time, and what
they would be at ; it has lifted up the screen that seemed
as it were to obscure the real nature of the party (headed
by Lord Stanley and Mr. Disraeli), now aspiring to
govern this country. They say—or Mr. Disraeli, at any
rate insinuates —that they don't exactly want protection
but their declaration: have always appeared in my mind to
resemble the veil upon a lady's face, through which we are
enabled to discern quite easily the features which are behind ,
it. (Mew, hear.) Now, with regard to these political ma-
neeuvres—l do not say the word in the least offensively—l
thiuk the head of a pal ty is entitled to force his adversary
who is pressing on and telling the world that he is in a con- I
diteon to take the government—he has a right to let the
world know what are the means of that aspiring party, and
what really is the policy which that party would carry into
law. We have been twee/eel by some of being factious. As
if the independent liberals of the House of Commons had
bad anything to do with the peculiar party political events
which have recently eiken plate. If they had had anything
to de with it a second resignation must have taken place, for
although it is quits true the government were defeated by'
the independent liherale upon Mr. Locke King's motion for
the extension of the let franchise to the counties, unfor-
tunately it happens—end these events will happen 1 du not
knew how—they cannot be prevented, except by the go.
vernsnent foregoing their views, or our independent liberal
party furegoiug its views; these events must sometimes
happen; and they have, since their resignation, been put)*
a tumerity by that same independent liberal party on a mast
legitimate question, name, whether there should be a coca
met system of accounts laid before parliement in reference to
the extravagance and corruptions in the management of the
Woods and Forests. (Cheers.) I say these things not to
excuse my conduct, or any other man's conduct. We have
nothing to excuse. All I can say for myself is this, that I
have given, as far as in me has lain, a fair support to the
government. I have never voted against them except whew
1 believed I should violate my principles, and violate these
promises I made to my constituents, if I gavewuch vote in
their favour. (Cheer..) We have had two budgets, and the
second is better than the Brit—;a laugh)—bat, for one, I do
not give unqualified support to the second. lam glad that
the window tax is ro ;waled. I believe that the tax
was a bad tax, and open to most of the objections that
have been urged against it; and I am not adverse to
an equitable house tax. I don't forego by making
I that statement the right of criticising the house tax
ae proposed by the government. and of endeavouring to
remove from it all just causes of complaint; but inasmuch
as I prefer direct taxes—a tax, as I believe, upon property
—to thaw indirect taxes which limit the employment of
labour, which fetter and restrict the extension of trade, I
am not afraid to express my favourable opinion to the im-
position of a just mid equitable house tax, and to the ex-
, tension of direct taxation for the purpose of repealing the
I excise and customs duties. (Loud cheers.) But my re-
gret is, that with regard to. the second budget,
I that somehow or another, although we have repealed a
meet obnoxious us, we have not taken all the advantage
Iwe might have taken of the great margin which exists of
I income over expenditure to repeal indirect taxes. I believe
the revenue of this country under the free trade policy to
be a growing revenue. 1 believe the expenditure may be
' materially redaced. (Hear, hear.) I believe sincerely in
these two points. It is my opinion we might consistently
with the mainto nence of public credit have done more than
the present government have proposed in the way of a re-
ibmtion of indirect taxation. The government have told
ue that the time is come for reform in the representation of
the people. Same time ago, there were hints and insinua-
doss thrown out from various quarters, that the ministerial
mind was ruminating on some proposition of this cha-
racter. Now we have a direct promise from the head
af the government that, at the beginning of the
next session of parliament, he shall be prepared to
lay before the country his views upon parliamentary reform.
I will say, that I view the reform question, at the present
moment, somewhat in the same light that the Duke of
Wellington spoke of war in past times, when he mid,
w England cannot have • little war ;" and I say, at this
" England cannot put up with a small and contracted
adorns Bill." The electors of England And Wales, according
teas lest parliamentary returns, amount to some 880,000
peen% and deducting from that sum total all the double
wee% and treble votes, and quadruple votes, of which
ass to be found, it is probable that the total number
et on the register at:thifaimedoesnotexceed76o,ooo
Of 1120,000. Now, I would ask, is that body all that are to
bars the elective franchise, out of a population of male
'aisles certainly, I should say, amounting to not less in Eng-
lemdl and Wales than 4,000,000 of persona? It is monstrous,
lies we hear of free institutions in England—when we

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Apra It MI.

St OAR.—The average price of Sugar, the produce of
the British posimMom in Americt, computed Bum the returns made
is the week ceding the iSth April, 240. 9d. per cwt. dugs.,
M peahen of the Mauritius, is ITs. 111.1. Super, the produee of the
isei 24. 7df. Tie morose Woe of the three foremAus dw
By, 4 OIL 7L

WOOL AND IVORT.—We learn be the Propontia,
from the Cape of Good Hope (March 7)-that. owing to the
favourable state of trade in England, the wool market at
the Cape is in good condition. Prices are raining higher,
and lad. has been given for the best washed wools. The
ivory market is also luokina up, owing to the high quota-
tions from England. Some large lots were expected at Fort
Elisabeth from the frontier, hut, the communications being
cut off in consequence of the war, it may be sonic time be-
' fore they come to hand.
THE NORTH SOMERSET YEOMANRY.—A ludicrous
correspondence has just been published, between Captain
, Shute, of Cary Fitspaine, near Soincrton, and the Hon. F.
H. Berkeley, M.P. for Bristol. It may be re membered that
in the course of the debates recently Mr. Berkeley made
; some disparaging allusions to the North Somerset Cavalry,
alluding to Captain Shute as Captain not Sh-douhle-ot but ,
SA-u-t-e. The gallant captain writes, on the Bth inst., to
inquire if the bun. member implied by these words " any I
doubt of personal courage." Mr. Berkeley replies that he i
spelt the name " for the benefit of the reporters, and with
no intention of intimating that Captain Shute was not ready
to shoot." On the 11th, Captain Shute, who had in the
interim proceeded to London, writes from Morley's hotel to
say that the reply is not satisfactory. Mr. Berkeley, in re-
joinder, declines to make any further admissions of the cap-
tain's personal courage, " which he never impeached," and
refers Matto a friend at the Junior United Service Club.
, This perfe*y satisfies Captain Shute • and the Cone-
,'
spondence forthenth published.—SAer4rar Journal.
FEES AT WESTMINSTER ABBEY.—The custom of
taking fees at Westminster Abbey is of very ancient date,
and was always unpopular. Shirley alludes to it in his
pleasant comedy called "The Bird in a Cage," when Bo-
sonic*, a mountebank, observes—

I talk la sub.
Methinks, aa be that hem the lacameate.

The dean and chapter, however, in those days were more
moderate in their demands, for the price of admission was
but one penny to the whole. "This grant was made to
the chapter in 1597, on condition that receiving the benefit
of the exhibition of the monuments, tierk.should keep the
POW monuments always clean," &e. ( Reply from the
Dean and Chapter to an Order of the House of Commons,
1827.)—From " Notes and Queries."
_ _ _

dsur NORTIMIN RAlLwAT.—Trafic for the
week ending April 6, l&sl.—Pseamgers, Parcels, caramels,
homes, dogs, and mails, 4,8201. es. 2d. merchandise ead
minsrsh 3,5411. ls. 11d.; cattle, 2431. 71. Id.; total,
8,6041. life. 2d.; corresponding week, 1880, 3,2331.7 e. 64.

THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, APRIL 18• 18511

glorify in Queen's speeches epos the liberty which English-
men enjoy—when in public meetings noble lords and pre-
lates of the church congratulate themselves on what is
called the general contentment of the people with their in-
stitutions, and the happiuves and union of feeling that per-
settle, as it is said, the great body of the working clam,—
it is a speleinclioly conclusion to come to that sit these aa-
vantaees supposed to be secured by the exclusiva of f
',oriole. out of every five from voting for the return of a
member to parliament. Taking that view of the question
it would appear as if this marvellous constitution of ours
was not built upon the numbers that arc admitted within
the pale of the conaitution, and that have a voice in rank-
iag the law which they are hound to obey, but Unequally
built on the numbers excluded, and that we are compelled to
ad:nit if we persist in thin exclusion of persona front votine for
members of parliament, that the safety of our institutions
depends upon proscription and exclusion, and is not based
upon the attachment and Iltrk•CtiollS of the people. (Cheers.)
lam prepared to admit no such thine. On the contrary, it
is my firm belief that the cause of order, of good govern-
ment, of morality, of religion, of social happiness, of mate-
rial prosperity, would all be promoted by extending the
franchise—by equalising and distributing, upon more just
and equitable terms, the electoral power—by shortening the
duration of parliament*, and thus enabling the people to
have 1110 re active control over their representatives—and by
nixing to the electoral bode the protection of the vote by
ballot. It is my belief that a IZOOd reform bill ought to
include those four points. I believe that our election sys-
tem iii England and Wales, and in some parts of Scotland
and Ireland,—considering the long experience we have had,'
and the knowledge we ought to possess of the proper way to
work representative institutions,—that our electioneering
system is a disgrace to us, and would be held to be so
throughout the civilised world, if it were well understood.
(Cheers.) Some time ago, I recollect seeing in the Times
a calculation that a general election cost something like two
millions of money. And this very year, those who were
anxious for the Great Exhibition in London, cried oat,
" For mercy's sake don't have a general election," for they
said it would cost two millions of money, and the people
woula net have the means to come to London to witness
this Great Exhibition. (Hear, hear.) Two millions of
money spent in a general election in the United King-
dom! I dare say it would he nearer the mark to say two
millions and • half; and how did the Times say these two
millions were spent, or rather, I should say the greater por-
tion of these two millions? To use the expressive words of
that newspaper (as near as I can remember them), " this
money was to a great extent expended in swilling and gar-
rilog." (Cheers and laughter.) Why is it not monstrous that
we should talk of ourselves as being a free people—(hear)—
as leaving • sound representative system, and yet not
put an end to such a monstrous wholesale system of corrup-
tion as it scow prevailing? This money is expended prin-
cipally in the smaller boroughs, or wherever there may be
compact belies of electors trained up in the old system of
corruption, who are pretty much like the select few in the
11111./li boroughs. Who are the parties who spend these two
millions—and why do they coyest this money ? They are
making an investment, and be assured that when they lay
out their two millions of money in buying the electors of
Fan eland they look to have wane return, and that if they
buy these electors, they will sell them, and get a good
profit by the transaction. (Cheers.) And who is it that
supply the funds with which the men who tneke the invest-
ment are repaid ? Why those very unfortunate taxpayers
who have allowed themselves to he corrupted in these small
borouges, and have returned the men who are but buying
titian in order that they may sell them. That is the principal
re:nun why I for one contend that no reform can be worth
an ;intent or earnest support, that does not at least pro-
vitle that every member of the British legislature shall be
responsible to so numerous and our independent a body of
electors as to put beyond the reach of those who are
evilly disposed the bringing to Isar of these corrupting
iniluences. (Cheers.) sly honourable friend the chair-
man has told us of the inequality between small boroughs
and large ones. I also had provided myself with some
calculations-1 dare say they are familiar to you all—
as to the disparities which now exist in the electoral
system ; but f believe I way say broadly, it is possible,*
under the present arrangements, for one-sixth part of
the whole electoral body to return a clear majority of the
House of Commons, and therefore to rule this country
throe's!' that majority. (Hear, hear.) With regard to these
small boroughs, I have a list of twenty-seven in England
and Wades—my honourable friend the chairman has men-
tioned thirty-five, but my twenty-oven were taken exclu-
sively front England and %Vales. and there I find twenty-
seven boroughs, returnine 13:members, having collectively a
gross constituency of 10,0110 voters in the aggregute ; whiilst
Manchester, with 11,000 voters, only returns two. (Shame.)
It was Said at the time of the Reform Bill, by those who had
fowled themselves the hereditary and permanently esta-
blished rulers of this country, that they were inclined to let
in, as it was termed, a certain portion of the commercial and
manesfacturing, or, as they were pleased to call them, the
midelline classes of society. They thought the time was
came when they might be permitted to exercise their discre-
tion in returning members to parliament. Well, but what a
way of admitting them! If you are to admit the city of
Manchester to be represented in the House of Commons,
with its immense wealth, its great intelligence, its great in-
flue nee over the trade of the United Kingdom and of the
world, with its great population, and its vast inilustrisd
and moral interests of every kind, it' you are to let this belly
represented by two unfortunate units in the House of
Commons, what a monstrous thing it is to bring to bear
against them no less than 43 members for the small
boreughs, in order that they may put an end to any ad-
verse votes that these two units from the commercial and
manufacturing metropolis may feel it their duty to give.
(Loud cheers.) Now, there is one other matter, before
I leave' the reform question, which I may take the liberty of
mentioning to you, which is this—the isereesity, in order
to carry a reform bill, in order to maintain our position,
in reference to commercial freedom, of availing ourselves of
the lull power which the existing laws give us to improve and
extend the electoral system. I say it is a monstrous thing that
because the parish authorities of is borough think tit for
their own convenience t, compound with the owners of pro-
perty fur the payment of the rates, thus in tact getting
perhaps a larger sum in the rates than they would get it
they collected the money from each individual ratepayer,
that that couvenience should be Made a ground for dis-
frauclsising all these compound householders. (Great
cheering.) My honourable friena and colleague has given
notice of a clause to be added to the hill now before par-
liament for the purpose of remedying this evil. Whether
he will carry it or nut I don't knew—(e laugh)—but I
heard sue rather ominous remark made in high quarters,
that they were very much afraid that my lion. friend's
proposition violated 11 principle. (Great laughter.) If
it is a principle ut all, it appears to me ass exceediagly
bad principle, and the sooner it is violated the better ;
and for oue I shall give my hearty and cordial sup-
port to my honourable friend's proposition. I will
repeat, that I desire these four points on the reform
question :—First of all, let us have un extension of
the franchise ; secondly, let us have a more equal distribu-
tion of the electoral power; thirdly, let US have vote by ballot;
owe fourthly, let Ul have triennial parliaments. (Loud
cheers.) Touching the threatened advent of the power of
Lord Stanley and his party, 1 for 0110 am not afraid that,
even if they did take office, they could re-enact the corn
laws, and go back tocemmercial restriction. (Never.) They
may do much mischief of other kinds; hut I think the power
that wrung those measures from a reluctant parliament
can keep what it has got. (Hear, hear.) It is
right, at we are here to explain the course we have taken in
parliament, to defend our vote', if attacked, and to propound
our opinions and principles—it is right that I should allude
to that measure which has occupied so much of public
time, namely, the bill having reference to what certain
Roman catholic prelates are to be called. There has
been • great question in parliament and in the
country, as to the title s of Raman Catholic pre-
lates. A bill has been brought into parliament, not to state
what these humus catholic prelates shall be called, but to
pass into law a solemn act of the legislature declaring what
they shall not call themselves. (Prolonged cheering and
laughter.) Now I was invited, with others, to take a part
in passing this law, hut I retained the opinion which I ex-
pressed when I had the honour of addressing you some
time ago in Manchester, that it was better to do nothing
by legislation in this matter, and that it would be a wiser
policy to allow these ltonian catholic prelates, who ask
neither for law from us or for money—(immense cheering)
—to call themselves what they please. (Hear, hear.) I
should be sorry—l should be sorry to differ with any poli-
tical friend upon this important question, but I can say I
believe the principle on which I base based my vote is a
sonnet one. (Hear, hear.) I am passing no opinion in
favour of any particular religious tenets: lam not, as a
member of parliament, appearing before my constituents to
come here to discuss questions of divinity, to pronounce cen-
sures upon the religious convictions of any portion of my
fellow-countrymen. I have my own religious convictions, and
I give to every other man the free and unfettered exercise
of his own. (Great cheering.) They taunt you with being •
limping protestant—(laughter)—they tell you that you heave
a tendency to the doctrines of Dr. Posey, or something in
your mind of a feeling of indifference to the great adven-
t-mos of the protestant reformation in a religious point of
view. They taunt you with all these things. Some say,
" You arc going to Rome if you oppose this bill." My an-
swer oppose this bill because I believe it unwise as a
matter of public policy ; and although Mr Hugh Stowell
may impugn—(groans and hisses)—and although these gen-
tlemen may impugn the protestantism of my honourable
friend and myself, I will undertake to say, that if it were
a question of the protestantism of respective parties,l should
not be surprised if an impartial ju7 would pronounce the
protestantism of my honourable friend, Mr. Bright, to be
purer than that of Mr. Hugh Stowell. (The whole of the
meeting here rose to their feet, and loudly cheered the hon.
member alluded to) I was going to tell you the ground
upon which we were invited in parliament to agree to this
law in reference to the Homan catholic prelates. The great
matter to consider is, what is the bill—what are the words
of the bill upon which we are called to give our votes ?
Now, this bill recites another act of parliament with a view
to giving that act a fresh sanction and extension by the
legislature. The act of parliament which it recites has
these words, That whereas the protestant episcopal church
of England and Ireland, and the doctrine, discipline, and
government thereof, and likewise the protestant preabyterian
church of Scotland, and the doctrine, discipline, and govern-
ment thereof, and of Great Britain and Ireland,were, by the
respective acts of England and Scotland, and of Great Bri-
tain and Ireland, established permanently and inviolably
—(oh, oh)—and that the right and title of archbishops to
their respective provinces, and of bishops to their secs, and
of deans to their deaneries, u well ba England as in Ire-
land, had been settled end established by law; and that
whereas these things exist, and doubts have arisen whs.
ther the rights intended to be protected—namely, Uwe*
rights of archbishops, bishops, and deans, are sufficiently
protected, it is necessary, in order to give further protec-
tion to this inviolable Irish church—(oh, oh)—and this in-
violable English church, and this inviolable Scotch church,

we should prevent any other body of religionists from adopt- I
g those eccleaiwitical arrangement% which may at all
like, the arningements of these respective esti-
appear to
•
act which declares that the Protestant rhumb in Ireland is
ebhili4eshtemrentto'LgoNt:lwiar' al,frassmheinsatrtiollu'r 3'toinnan.
permanently and inviolably established? (No.) Ant I to
agree that that is a reason why we should ke:p down by
Penal enactments the Roman catholic church in that coin, ,
try supported by the voluntary contributions of a Raman i
catholic population? (No, no.) Is it not the most mon-
strous injustice that can possibly be conceived that while •
you maintain a Protestant church in Ireland, which, as a
religioua establishment, can be of no service to the great
beds- of the people of that country, that not satisfied I
with that injustice, you must go still further, and say that
you will not allow that Roman catholic population
to support its own dignitaries in its own way.
and to have its own ecclesiastical establishment sup- :
ported by its own voluntary contributions? (Cheers.) I
decline to make the Roman catholic body an exception to
the general rule of equality. It is impossible, on these prin- ,
ciples, that I can be a party in any shape, or in any man-
ner, to the enactment of this bill, called the Ecclesiastical
Titles Bill. (Loud cheers.) I hope the principles that I
have laid down are those which meet the approval of Vie ,
constituency of Manchester. (Enthusiastic cheering.) •
The hon. member resumed his seat amid protracted and
enthusiastic cheering.)
Mr. BRIGHT was received with great enthusiasm. Ile
said—lf I was nut aware of the fact that you are watchful
observers of the course of parliamentary proceedings, and
that you do what is a very just thing to do, that is, put the
saddle on the right horse, 1 should be somewhat afraid of
appearing before this assembly—(a voice, " So you ought
to do," followed by loud cries of l'ut him out ")—fur I
I have been ten weeks in London, in almost constant attend-
ance upon what are called our parliamentary duties,
and hitherto we have not succeeded in doing anything
practical as a duty at all. We have been talking about two
questions which everybody believed hod been settled long
ago; these two questions have occupied the politicians of
this country for forty or fifty years almost ineessantly.
The one was believed to have been settled in
1529, and the other more recently in 1816,- corn
and catholicism—(Laughter)—precisely the same things
about which our fathers were fighting, and precisely the
thing, if we fail in our duty, shout which it is not un-
likely that our children alter us may have to tight. Both
these questions are out of place in the House of Commons ;
the House of CUDITIIOII, has no right whatever, if it obey its
real duty, and watch the real interests of this country, to be
meddling with the importation or price of corn, or with any
question touching the particular religious opinions which
any portion of the population of this kingdom may enter-
tain. (Applause.) Now, Mr. Gibson has spoken on the
subject of the Papal Bill ; and I might, therefore, per-
haps, be content to say that I view the meusure pretty much,
it not entirely, ilk the light in which he has submitted it to
you—(hear)—and thertboe I cannot support it —(loud cheers,
with some slight disturbance from u man in the gallery)—
and believing that you would prefer my honest oppolitiou to
it to a hollow mid dishonest support, that I might therefore ,
pass un to discuss other political questions. (The !Witte nun
again became troublesome.) Now, I ask this meeting to
observe how fir the course that I have taken during this
session, upon this question, has been consistent with the
course I have taken on previous occasions. Now, I have
never spoken from this platform on any subject that has
elicited from the audience a more entire and enthusiastic
support, than when I spoke of the condition of Ireland,
and of that monstrous and infamous institution the pro-
testant church of Ireland. (Loud applause, and some in-
effectual attempts at disturbance from the same "Mr.
Noisy.") With regard to all questions connected with our
Roman catholic fellow-subjects, I need not remind yuu—
(here the man in the gallery became so excited, that a loud
cry was raised of "'burn him out ;" but the meeting was
still patient with the gentleman, and he was suffered to re-
main.) With regard—(renewed disturbance from the same
quarter, followed by counter-cries from the body of the
meeting, which fur a few seconds put a atop to the business
' of the meeting.)

I veto upon to.- "PP°iAlment of bishops whi,47---she may
make ; but, then, are you willing to take ti,c same
course ? (Loud eri% of " \o.") I speak that
to churchmen, churchmen sn,l au i the government
Skill not make an agreement with the Pupe by which,
when the Pope appoints a bishop, it bll4ll only he a
bishop which the Queen shall choose to see !rho
churchman says this, because his church is supreme,
and he dots nut want, partly because he does nut likes
the catholic religion, and partly because he does not like t
a rival religion, he does not wish that bishops and arch-
bishops should come here recognised as bishops and arch-
bishops, and that a rival church should be establisleal. But, ,
then, if the churchman says that he is in favour of perfect
toleration and perfect free-loan to the catholic religion,
surely, if he will not agree that thegovernment should make
this kind of contract with the Pope, he should allow the Pope
and the catholics to make thcirown bishops and archbishops,
and to arrange their church as they like. (Loud applanse)
But the dissenter is not a whit less inconsistent lie objeeta,
not quite consistently, to the government of this country
, making an agreement with the Pope by which the Roman
I catholic bishops shall Ise appointed in subjection to the will'
of the Queen, and by which certain sums from the taxes of
England shall be appropriated to the payment of the stiponcla
of the Roman catholic bishops. I object to this altogether,
• as establishing another church, and a church which, it may
' be, and for the most part it certainly is, the dissenters have
no sympathy whatever. But if the dissenter tolojo tot to this
concord or agreement between our governint mat and the
Pope, why, upon what pretence, then, can it be that the
dissenter should ask the government to make it p nal for
bishops to govern, to have jurisdietion,to pernorm their duties
withiu certain given and known districts of this "entry,
when appointed by the Pope? Why is the Itonith catholic
church to he without its bishops ? Now, 1 am not a man
who can he supposed to believe that 'dollops are to essential
as some persons think they are (laughter) ; but then lam
hound to believe, if 1 hold the principle of relia!oes liberty,
that if a conference of priests or of ministers be ...semis: for
the Wesleyan body—if the Wesleyan. think so----1 se, not
at liberty to take proceedings by law to interfere with their
arramtements and it' the Roman catholic. of ti,. United
Kingdom believe, as they must belies e, that it iv essential
for their church that its fderarehy and organisation should
be complete, why, fur me, as a dissenter—whilst I will not
allow of this agreement between the government and the
Pope—to protest against this, and to go whining to parlia-
ment for a law to prevent it, is an inconsistency which I
would not be guilty of if it were to drive me from public
life for ever. (immense cheering.) Mr. Gibson has made
some observations about the church of England. I hopo
I need not say that in any observations I may make about
that church, 1 am not instigated in the slightest degree by
any strung feeling of opposition to the doctrines of that
church ; and not at a 8 by any feeling of hostility to the
persons—vast numbers of whom I have no pretensions to
compare myself with in religious iugs —who fonn tho
hulk of that eatablislintent. When I speak of the eliunsh of
Hoglund I speak as a citizen of this country, having u ear-
feet right to speak of one of the public departments of the
state—of the political institutions whivii is called the church
of England. Now we have had this church, in one shape
or other, almost entirely far three hundred years. 1 do nut
know what the revenues are; I n. yer tenant anyls-ly who
did know—(laughter)—but, placing them at a very low esti-
mate, they allay be stated in nomad numbers at sis millions
a year—add the Irish church, anal there would he a million
more. NOW, although this six millions a year has not been
enjoyed to that amount for taal years, yet, taking the six
millions in proportion to our present population, the oshoirch
has had an equal amount, in all times, for :km years.
Well, now, what was the church fur? It has always Omen
held up as a great bulwark against popery. (Applause.)
The dissenters have heel, enjoined to come to the flinne, to
join the church against what they always call "the COMMen
enemy.** But now, what is the present .ate of that elaureh ?
Nobody cm say that it is united, though lay law eall.sl the
United Church of England and Ireland. It nily IV' a united
church, but we are all very eionseious of this, that it is by no
means it harmonious choral. (Bear, hear.) There are
troubles is some other religion.; bodies just now. l hope
they will sill end in good to the tkople, and in good to reli-
gions. (clear, hear.) But there is scantly any church in
such a state of dismay as the church of Etialatel. You
read a while ago, a column in the newspapers of an ad-
dream from the bishops and archbishops. Ilut all the
bishops did not sign it ; sonic disagreed upon one point,
others upon another; and, to get the number to sign it
who did sign, they were °bilged in carve it, and to cut it,
and to clip it, and to dilute it, until, when it conne out, it
was found to be a sort of declaration or statement to the
people which could nut alma much harm, but positively could
not lease the slightest edict of good. And now we have
another phase of this guy rheum disorder. There is a
bishop whu lives in the west of England ; as mail not to bo
trilled with on these questions ; a naau that never would have
been made a bishop if they had known of what material he
was composed—(lautliter)—tlw Bishop of Exeter. I have
seen him occasionally when I have been at the bar of the
blouse of Lards, and, I must say, there is a great deal of
mischief in his couutemince—(laughter)—there is an aspect
of unrest iu Ibis eye. I am afraid he is destined. to do sumo
mischief to the political establishment of tisk euuutry ;
um not sure at all that it will end in mischief either to
Christianity or to chit liberty. (Cheers.) Bait the Bishop
of Exeter is calling a small parliament ut his 0%11 down in
the west—whieli he calls a ;beet son synonl ; there are
sOMO oven or eight hundred clergymen in his dioesse;
every deanery is to return two; and lie his setting up what
they call synodical action, which an many people want the
catlwiics ill be prevented from exercising, by the bill now
before mahout at. Well, I alon't know what it will end in,
except this —that I think it will convince the people of
England that men are in earnest—when there is real seal for
religion—muntainws in the right, and sometimos in the
wrung channel, but still zeal,—any attempt to bind together
a religious body by legal enactments must necessarily and
certainly bid. Look at what the church has come to. A
gentleman told me in the Rouse of Commons, on Monday
night I think it was—and a geutlesnau very well informed
upon the ma he believed three hundred clergy--
lin-at of the church of England were preparing to secede to
tae church of Rome. (Slight applause uud hissing.) But
it that be true, three hunotred, it must be borne iu mind,
are but an iudication of something more--an indication of
the existence of proliably 2,000 clergymen in the church of
England who, though nut prepared to go over to the church
of Rome, are anxious to introduce into their church
many of those views and practiees which protestant., as
at matter of course, if they adhere to the principles of the
reformation, can never fur a moment consent tu. (Hear,
hear.) Now, I believe there is not a mato in the world
who knows me who has the slightest suspicion that
I ant a Unman catholic. (A laugh.) I have been
charged with a variety of °Ounces and misdemeanour*,
but 1 ant not aware 1 have ever been openly charged with
that. (Cheers.) Why, if there be a man in this meeting,
or in the House of Cumulous, or in this kingdom, who
rejects and disclaims mure completely uud unreservedly
than another all those powers stud ulainas which priests
of every church—(cheers)—are too apt too seek to assert
over those with whom they come in contact, I ant
that man. (Great cheering.) But now we come for a
moment to the political evils of this question. We
have been ten weeks in the House of Commons, and
we come before you with an empty wallet. (A. laugh)
We have not dome a single thing you eau commend
us for. (Cheers.) Purliament and the government have
heels occupied with this question, this imaginary question,
this question of sentiment, and everything else, or nearly so,
has been neglected ; fur I believe we have not haul above ono
week's good work mall other questions put together. Well,
but the government has been in great difficulties. Now L
don't think a nation goes to ruin because a cabinet now and
then happens to be in difficulties. (A laugh.) llot who is
responsible for the difficulties ? it cannot lac us; we are not
responsible. We have nut been embarras,ing government
in any way. Imagine the fact that this papal bill is
directed against the religion of eight of the
population, including almost all the population of
who are represented by one hundred members of
the Mum: of Commons; and when a motion like this,
with uo elfeet of good, combining the minimum of results
with the maximum of insult, is brought forward by a
party which since 1815 has existed on the subservient sup-
port of the Irish members, you wonder that such a party
should find itself deserted by its adherents? The fact is
that there is mama cohesion on our side of the house,--we will
nut disguise it. The whigs are out of the same party that we
are, and we never pretended it. (Cheers.) The whlgs, the
policy of the whigs is—fur the shies. (A laugh.) It is fur
whig supremacy. it is for three or four great families, that
they should govern the country, because they think they have
same hereditary claims to got ern it. We go to parliament
fur other objects, but those objects were known to the ton-
stituency of Manchester, we never disguises! them, we aro
not one thing here, and another thing in the House of Com-
mmo, (Great cheering.) And if the whig government is
weak it is because it will govern by a policy which is accept-
able only to the minority of those who sit on its own side,
and it repudiates the policy which the majority of those sup-
port who appear nominally as its friends in parliament. I
once brought before a meeting in this very place the compo-
sition of the cabinet. It is it little altered since, but very
little, and it is not a bit better. I will read the names of the
cabinet over, and you shall see how far it is likely they will
carry out such principles as are promulgated in this ball.
We shall find, then, in the Upper noose, the mums of
Lord Truro, the Marquis of Lansdowne, the Marquis of
Clanricarde, Earl Grey, the Earl of Carlisle, and Lord
Broughton, known more familiarly to you as Sir John
Cam Hobhouse. A prodigious radical he was when
was a boy. (A latigh.) o lie now, by a process,
I do not know whether of ripening or decay, has
been transported to that political bourne whence
no traveller returns. (Laughter.) These are six members
of thu House of Lords, members of this liberal government.
Let us go on a little further, and see who there are in tho
House of Commons. There we have Lord John Russell,
Lord Palmerston, Mr. Fox Manic, who is the son of Lord
j Panmure ' • Sir George Grey, who is a near relative to the
peerage; Sir Francis Baring, who is son-in-law, I believe, of
a per ; Sir Charles Wood, the son-in-law of a peer; and Mr.
bo
not sa • a word individually against these men. But
ftLalatitilhhierpe, yrohot,he
we all know very well what an esprit de corps is in all
I believe, is about in the same intimate
peerage. Now, understand, I am
classes and ranks of society. I ask you to imagine these
tgh
or unnedwtsl time able,
newspapers,
holdingthtaa cabinet
cabinet
tinsueh a day, and attended by those
doubt that when a question comes be-
fore them, such as ono of parliamentary reform, these men
do not discuss' the question in the spirit, or with We hopes
n kelcsea
nlor ad cry,noeosuinti
and wishes, in which we discuss it? They see, probably, in
a thorough parliamentary reform, the chances that at lead
half thole men might never again find their way into the
cabinet at all. And so, if you came to discuss, pew.. to
1816, the question of the corn laws, these men were mostly
landed proprietors, who thought probably not so much of
Wc council
gentlemen. etiithirteen;wasgae
economy, or of our industrial intents ; and they may very
likely have apprehended that tree trade would brans in not

The CHAIRMAN stepped forward, and having obtained
a hill said, if the ineetiug would leave him to fOltallt't the
proceedings he would take rare nn further interruption
took place • and if any gentleman, either its the gull -ry or
under the ;gallery, felt annoyed or inconveniently
and would have the goodness to step forward and cease on
the platform, he (the chairman) would be eery glad to
provide him with accarninielatioo—(laud cheers and laugh-
ter) ; and further, that if that gentleman would not, atter
this invitation, menage to control his feelings during the
continuance of the speaking, he (the chairman) world be
under the painful necessity of placing him in the custody
of a peace Where. (Loud applause.) [Nu further hoer-
ruption, at all note-worthy, took place during the
evening.]
Mr. BRIGHT resnmed.—With regard to our Roman
catholic fellow countrymen, I need not remind this meeting
that on all occasions l have asked for them the entire liberty
which I claim for myself ; that I never ask for them that
government should favour them, that it should foster them,
that it should cherish them, that it should encourage
them; but that it should leave them perfectly free, give
them the same rights, the same privileges, the same power
that 1 would confer upon every other sect of religionists
within the United Kingdom. (near, hear.) Now, as a
proof—there are many Roman catholice here, no doubt—
now, in 180, I voted directly on all WC:LAI/US against the
Maynooth grant. (Cheers.) But there was no Roman
catholic offended by my opposition to that grant —(ao, no)
--because I placed it distinctly upon this principle —that
you, the parliament of England, have no right to tax the
people of England, who are of all sorts of religious belief,
for the purpose of carrying on a government solely fur the
purpose of educating the clergy and ministers of a par-
ticular sect. (Cheers.) Now, what has been the course
taken by the present government? Because, understand,
that we are charged with opposing the government
on a question with which we ought to have gone with
them ; and we are told that Lord John Russell is defending
the protestantisru and the liberties of England ; sod that we
are opposing ourselves to him when we should not do so.
(Laughter, and " No, no.") Why, look at the present go-
vernment ; there is not a nian of them, who, in opposition,
did not denounce the Irish church. Mr. Macaulay, who was
in the cabinet, lately stated distinctly, that he thought it the
most odious institution in Europe ; and other members of the
government coincides! with him. But tiotwitbstauding they
arc in office, and have been in office for live years, they have
not made the slightest attempt to put an end to, or eVetl to
modify, that odious institution; and, generally speaking—
always, I believe, when the question had been brought on,
they have voted for its maintenance; and one of them, the
Secretary of State for the Dome Department, has actually
retracted the expressions which, while in opposition, he
used against it. (Applause.) Well but, further than
that, the present government, when in opposition, made
the most explicit acknowledgments of the right of the
catholic church in Ireland to be placed upon an equality
with the protestant church. If I were to read from the
paper I have in my hand some of the things which they
have said, you would scarcely believe it to be possible these
thing, could be said by the men who are now joining in the
general outcry against the catholic population of the
' United Kingdom. It is rather late, and I am afraid to
trespass upon your time with reading extracts—(loud cries
of "Go on ")—and I will only read one or two. Lord
John Russell said in 18t3, speaking about what he
would do with the Irish church : " I am not now
called upon to propose a plan, because, standing
in the position I do, it would not be my place to do so."
lie meant that it was the place of a minister to propose a
plan, and not a leader of opposition. But he goes on to
say:—" Any plan I should propose, would be to follow out
that principle of equality, with all its consequences. What
I wish to sec, is a church establishment suited to the num-
ber of protestant' of that kingdom, and also un establish-
ment suited to the Roman catholic people of that country."
(Loud laughter.) Lord Grey, stow a member of the cabinet,
says, speaking of the Irish church:—" I will never disturb
the country by proposing any measure that does not, in my
opinion, go to the root of the evil. When I my, go to the
root of the evil, what I mean is, one that does not deal, on
entirely equal terms, with cathelies and protestants. There
must be no distinction. There must be no insolent assump-
tion of any greater correctness of doctrine, or having claim
to be regarded by the state and government as the domi-
nant party in the state." And he states further that—" With
regard to the funds appropriated to the ecclesiastical affairs in
Ireland, 'say the catholies have the first claim on the funds."
And further, he says —" But there is another matter, not
less important than endowment ; you must give the catholic
clergy an equality also in social rank and position. I carry
my view on this subject so far as to wish to MX the prelates
of the Roman catholic church take their place is this house
on the episcopal bench." (Loud laughter.) Now, bear in
mind, that the sentiments I have now read are the senti-
ments, when in opposition, of the gentlemen who are now
upon the treasury bench. But I say further, that this ag-
gression had been distinctly invited by the speeches of Lord
John Russell in the House of Commons ; and I will but
read you two passages, of two or three lines each, and you .
will judge how far I am correct. Lord John Russell said,
on the bth of February, 184.5, four months before ho came
into office :—" As to preventing persons assuming particular
titles, nothing can be more absurd and puerile than to keep
up such a distinction." Now, on August 17, 1818, when he
bad been nearly two years in office, he made use en thisl
language, on shill with regard to the establishment of
what are called diplomatic relations with the court of
Rome. lie says : " With regard to spiritual authority, the
hon. gentleman (Sir Robert Inglia. I believe), must see,
when he alludes to other states in Europe, that whatever
control is to be obtained over the spiritual authority of the
Pope, can only be obtained by agreement for that end.
You must either give certain advantages to the Roman
catholic religion, and obtain from the Pope certain other
advantages in return, amongst which you must stipulate
that the Pope shall not create any diocese in England
without the consent of the Queen ' • or, on the other hand,
you must say you will have nothing to do with arrange-
ments of the kind, that you will not consent in any way to
give any authority to the Roman catholic religion in Eng-
land ; but then you must leave the spiritual authority of
the Pope entirely unfettered. You cannot bind the Pope's
spiritual influence unless you have some agreement."
Well, now, that precuely the point. Observe, that Lord
John Russell here declares that unless you have an agree-
ment with the Pope, by which you give up something to
the Popo (that is, by which you pay his bishops), the,Pope
will not consent that you should have a veto upon the ap-
Intment of his bishops ; and Lord John Russell states
in answer to Sir Robert Inglis, that that is the
particular distinction between what is done in other coun-
tries and what is done in this. Because, in Russia, and In
Prussia, and other European countries, where the Pope ap-
points only such bishops as the government it willing to
receive, the government of those countries pays those
bishops ; and, of course, having made that conoession to the
Pope by establishing the catholicreligion, the Pope is rite
willing to giro up to the puzament of those °psalm •

I

7S,a,IMP."