The Express.
London, England, 1848-03-18 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, MACH 18, 1848.

Ireland had gone to such • pitch, that if more taxes were
laid on, the country would lime mere than it would receive
from that limner of the realm. Since 1815 the taxes re-
mines to England dollen to 1842 amounted to 45,000,0001.,
while the taxation remitted to Ireland during the same
period amounted only to 2,100,0001., or about one-twentieth
the amount of taxation remitted to Oreat Britain. In addi-
tion, there had since been the infliction upon Ireland of the
poor tae, which added at least 2,000,0001. annually to the
taxation of than country, and this was the last feather pieced
upon the camel's back. Another would cause the animal to
' break down. It had been said that there was property to
the amount of ,13,000,0001. in Ireland which escaped the
income tax. Now he (Sir H. W. Barron) ventured to assert,
that of this 5,000,0001. paid the income tax &Meade through
absentees and mortgagee., leaving only 8,000,000/.
which was not affected by it, but the principal
part of that 8,000,0001, conaisted of holdings of '
less value than 1501. per annum, and therefore
if the hen. baronet earned him motion that property would
not be affected. But did Ireland contribute nothing more to
this country ? Why, the crown and quit-note paid by Ire-
land were spent iu this very metropolis in the improvement
and embellishment of its streets, its parka, and its palates.
Again, he contended that the articles of manufacture pur-
chased by Ireland at Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, and
Sheffield, end elsewhere—articles contributing to the nem
toms and excise—ought to be carried to the credit of Ireland.
Ho thought the points he had suggested were worthy of con-
sideration ; and it the hon. baronet would move for a com-
mittee to inquire into them, he (Sir IL W. Barron) would
second the motion, feeling convinced that Ireland would come
uescathed out of the investigatirn. (Hear, heat.)
Mr. MOORE said he should be glad to believe that no other
feelings or motives than a wise regard for the best interests
of the realm had induced the hon. baronet optimise (Sir B.
Hall) to bring forward this motion. lint the manner in
which the notice had been given, and the mode in
which the mode had been introduced rendered it impos-
sible for him (Mr. Moore) to put such a charitable construc-
tion upon the course pursued by the hon. baronet. lie could
not but regard the present as another shot in the guerilla
warfare which the hon. baronet had before opened against
Ireland and Irish character. The Irish question had in fact
been the making of the hon. baronet: it was not his first
political love, it had proved, by his retort, again to that
house, his mest successful love, on which he dwelt with a per-
petual, though now somewhat tiresome, infatuation. (Hear.)
small talents had long traded in Ireland an anti-English
prejudices with considerable profit, and had acquired a re-
putation sleet as great as that of the hon. member. But
this was a question, which of all others sight to be judged
and decided per or, involving as it did the taxation of a whole
empire ; and he therefore regretted that the present motion
had been held out in terrorerte against the Irish members
who voted with government on a former divaion, and he
was almost driven to the conclusion that this house wee in-
tumble of forming a correct opinion OR Dish subjects. No-
thing could be more absurd than this avowed system of re-
crimination. Many men in Ireland telt as much din
satisfaction with the votes of Irish membesr in favour of the
government, as could be entertained by the hon. member
for Marylebone; for they disapproved of everything which
might strengthen and uphold the credit and the dignity of
this country. (Ilene, hear.) He was of opinion that every
class in heisted ought to contribute to the national burdens ;
even the present destitution in that country did not appear
to him a sufficient ground for the exemption, provided the
funds were properly applied for the relief of Irish
distress. Still he could not support the amend-
ment of the hon.' member for Maryklecese ; and had
the forms of the house permitted it, he would have
proposed another amendment. While the Irish impu-
tation was perishing, it was monstrous to prapoise that the
resources of the country should be drawn elf for foreign pur-
There was one parish in the West of Ireland—
nellntara—a flue sample of the rest—which had petitioned
the house, declaring their inability to meet the rates, which
were constantly on the increase, while the number of those
who were able to pay was as rapidly decreasing by people
giving up their holdiegs. The priest of that parish bad in-
formed him that several persons had died of hunger in one
week, relief being refused or delayed till too late. A union
in county Galway was stated to he almost depopulated. In
ouch a state of things, from a people so impoverished, the
hon. baronet would strive to extract further taxation ! A
proposition so wicked and mischievous he had seldom heard.
The hon. gentleman then reed a long extract from a epe-ch
of Burke in reference to the Carnatic, which he contended
was strictly applicable to the present state of Ireland.
Mr. FAGAN charged the hon. taunter for Marylebone
with iaconsistency in proposing an income tax per Ireland,
after thrice voting against one for England, on the ground
of its injustice and inquisitorial character. That hon. mem-
ber hail said that the poor rate in Ireland only averaged
Is. sd. in the pound; hut this was not a fair way of repre-
senting the burden—the total amount of the rates was nearly
2,000001. The gross injustice of the inn. member's propo-
sition was but one of the many objections to which it was
open. He had unsparingly attacked an absent member, the
hon. member for Limerick, quoting and misapplying his
answer to an Adelman which had been presented to him. It
was perfectly true that the destitution of Ireland was now as
great as when an appeal was made to English charity. As
to the " atrocious calumnies on their religion," this expres-
sion was fully justified by what had fallen from the
learned recorder of London (Mr. Law), who had
spoken of " super titian mummeries."
Sir J. TYRRELL rose to order. This was a reference
to something that had occurred in a former debate, and was
therefore out of order.
The CHAIRMAN concurring,
Mr. FAGAN said he would not pursue the subject fur-
ther. The hon. member for Marylebone had said that
England paid 12 millions of imsma taxes, to which Ireland
was not at all subject; but let it be remembered that, at the
time of the union, the dcbtof Great Britain was 420,000,0001.,
while that of Ireland was only 30,000,0001. ; and the
consequience of the consolidation of the debts was,
that Ireland was Raddled most unjustly with the
payment of 16 millions for the interest of this debt.
Allusion had been made to the meeting of the Irish council,
at which a resolution hail been adopted against the extension
of the income tax to Ireland. But this had been done with-
out any selfish motive, solely that Ireland might be enabled
to sunport her own destitute poor. (Hear, hear.) 110 (Mr.
Fegan) had voted against the income tax all along, not to
weaken the resources or credit of the country, but because
he believed the expenditure had been extravagantly increased
since 1835. Ile fur one had no anticipation that the peace of
Europe would be disturbed ; he was therefore anxious to
assist English members in reducing their burdens. (Hear,
hear.) He had voted for the amendments of the bon. mem-
ber for Cockermouth and the boo. member for Montrose, be-
lieving the tax to be unequal, and being noxious that it
should not be perpetuated in its present form. But it was a
mistake to suppose that England der red no benefit from the
income tax ; 7,600,0001. of indirect taxes had been repealed,
of which two millions had been drawn from the raw material
of manufactures; and the benefit from this might be esti-
mated at twenty times the amount of the income tax. This
benefit was almost confined to England, seeing that its
exports of manufactures of various kinds vastly ex-
ceeded those of Ireland: (Hear.) In this point of
view, it would be exceedingly unjust to visit Ireland
with an income tax. Then, with regard to expenditure,
what benefit did Ireland derive from the colonies, on which
so large an outlay took place ? No Irish produce was taken
by the colonies. It was useless to say that Canada was an
advantage to Ireland, as a place of emigration ; for, if the
people were well governed at home, they would neither
cave the wish nor the occasion to emigrate. (Hear, hear.)
But it was said Ireland did not contribute its proportion to
the national burdens. By the act of union, two-seventeentbe
had been fixed as the proportion of the interest of the debt
payable by Ireland ; and the right hon. baronet themember
for Taraworth had estimated the capability of Ireland at
one-ninth. Probably one-tenth was nearer the truth. The
national revenue being 54,000,000/. the proportion for Ire-
land would be about 5,500,0001. ; and it was certain that
Ireland contributed pretty nearly that amount, in ackuow-
!edged and unacknowledged taxes. Putting cgrarian out-
ragesout of the question, no country was mere free from clime
than Ireland; and he regretted that the hon. member for
Marylebone should have expressml a fear that he should not
be safe in that country. He believed that even if this tax
was imposed on Ireland it would not he easily collected,
M. G. A. HAMILTON did not think there was any-
thing in tho tone or language of the hon. member for Mary-
lebone which deserved animadvertion. (War.) He was
not desirous that there should be any particular exemptions
in favour of any portion of the empire, and thought that
taxation should be as much as possible equalised. But the
comparative capabilities of the different portions of
the empire should be taken into consideration in im-
posing taxes. That was a proposition which ap
peered to be self-evident. But if Ireland was en-
titled to the benefit of that general principle, she mut still
more entitled to it on the ground of express stipulation, be-
cause it was enacted by the 7th article of the Act of Union,
that taxation should he imposed according to the comparative
ability of both cotintries (Cheers.]. The question then re-
solved itself into a mere matter of fact, namely, whether
Ireland was in such a position in regard to wealth as cons-
pired to Ens;:and, that the income tax ought to be ex-
tended to her. The' population of England as compared to
Ireland, was in the proportion of 21 to 1. The exports
of England in 1846 amounted to 150,645,0001.; of
Ireland, only '234,0681., or 600 to 1. The imports of
England in the same year were 83,(00,000/. ; of
Ireland, 1,900,000 t , or 10 to 1. The enstonve receipts
of England were 18,900,0001. ; of Ireland, 2,300,e00/. The
disproportion in other respects was the same; so that there
was no comparison at all with respect to the relative capacity
of both countries to sustain taxation. The burdens on land
in 'England, including the invomo tax, amounted to
16,456,0001. on the poor law valuation of 62,640,0001., or 30
per cent. The burdens on land in Ireland, without the
the income-tae, amounted to 4,7e6,0031. on a valuation of
13,2u1,0001., or more than 34i per cent. (Hear, hear.) lie
thought tOsit there flames showed that there was not even a
proximate equality between the two countries. In
1845 the then member for Bath (Mr. 'Roebuck)
was so strongly imeremed with the inequality be-
tween the two countries, that be did not propose
to extend the income tax to traders end prof. seionnl
melt in Ireland, but merely to landed property. Ile (Mr.
Hamilton) thought be had shown that the land in Ireland
was :so burdened that it would not be ter to extend the
income tax to it. If Ireland came anything near to Eng-
land in respect to wealth, he would be amongst the first to
oppose any claim :a exemption for his country. He thought
it would be mast unwise in the present state of Ireland,
when the people of that country were pasag through •
most severe crisis, to extend the income tax to her. He
hoped that a better feeling was beginning ta spread in that
country, that industry would become the general habit of
the people, and it was desirable not to cast impediments in
the way of her prosperity by imposing an income tax upon
her. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. NAPIER said he felt bound to support the govern-
ment in imposing the income tar on ibis country, because he

believed the necessities of the empire required it, and he del
not think ho was acting inconsistently with the vote he then
gave in opposing the motion of the hon. member for Mary.
lebone. The circumstances of the two countries were so
different, that they required the application of • different
legislation. (Hear.) That was felt to be the c Les in 1842.
when Ireland was exempted from the income tas. Hs must
suppose there were good grounds for that exemption. The
tax was imposed on this country as supplemental to the
free trade measures of the right lion. baronet, on
which he did not mean to express any opinion.
Those measures were intended to benefit the commerce of
England : and as Ireland could not derive benefit to the
same extent as England from thosemeariures, it would not be
just to burden her with taxes which were necessary in order
to carry them out. Indeed, be knew that in many instances
those measures had been a source of lose in Ireland. Amen,
in
1846, Ireland was exempted; and the motion of the hon. and
learned member (or Bath for extending the tax to the landed
property of that country was lost bye majority of 2.50. Hon
those two occasions it was not thought fit, on grounds of jus-
tice, policy, and reason, to extend the tax to Ireland, why
should it occur to the mind of any one that what was
right then should now be wrong ? A great calamity had
fallen en Ireland since then in the shape of a famine.
In consequence of that faminegreat addititional burdens were
thrown upon the land. The proprieiors in that country had
borrowed money to a large amount in order to give the
people employment, besides having to meet the expense' of
the poor-Mw. There we nothing, then, in the circum-
stances of Ireland at present which would justify the bootie
in revising the decisions to which it had come in 1842 and
1845. On the contrary, the circumstances that had occurred
since should make the house far more indisposed to extend
the tax to Ireland. The pressure had been so great on all
classes in Ireland during the last two years that it would be
most unjustly to burden them now with an income tax. lie
would be the last person to claim any exemption for his
country if the circumstances of the two coantries were equal,
but, being moat different, he did not think it would he fair
to impose an income tax upon Ireland. (Hear, hear.)
Col. CONOLLY said that a more inauspicious moment
could not be selected for proposing the imposition of an
income tax ou Ireland. That country had been exempted
from the income tax by former Chancellors of the Exche-
quer, because they felt that it was not able to hear it. If
that was the ewe in termer years, the reasons for not im-
posing it at the present time were much stronger. He was
ready to acknovledge the unbounded liberality of this
country towards Ireland, but he repelled the stigma of in-
. gratitude cast upon her by the hon. baronet the member for
Merylebone. If the hon. baronet proposed the extension
of the income tax to Ireland as • financial mea-
sure, it would turn out a complete failure. Whilst
he acknowledged his gratitude for the relief affirded
last year to Ireland, it was his duty to point out how the
assessments placed upon the county. As a landlord, it
was not his duty to complain, but he wits bound to Fay that
he knew numbers who were in the most destitute condition,
and who were obliged to forego all their family engagements
in consequence of the extreme pressure of the times. If any-
thing could aggravate the evils of the country, it would be
the application to it of this most oppressive tax—a tax
which, as far as Ireland was concerned, would he utterly
unproductive.
Sir J.TYRRELL was unable to distinguish precisely what
were the argument' on which this amendment was opposed.
The member for Dublin University bad argued as if by the
act of union this tax could not be extended to Ireland. But
he was old enongh to remember when the member for Corfe
Castle, the late Mr. Banker, was in the habit of calling on
the clerk at the table to read one of the clauses of the acts of
union, for the express purpose of showing that it was per-
fectly in the power of the house to extend the tax to the
sister country. Then it was said that the coat of the ma-
chinery to collect the tax would never be defrayed by the I
amount it might produce. It seemed, however, to be for-
gotten
that a poor-law had been introduced into Ireland,
and that the machinery under that system afforded the
means of making the collection without any cost whatever.
Such had been tile conduct of the late and present govern-
ments,
that it became absolutely necessary to take every
measure within their power in order to increase the revenue
of the country. Those governments had brought the
credit and the mercantile community of England into
great difficulties. Their measures had dried up the sources
of charity in Ireland, and this ought to be recollected when
the payments to the relief of the poor were urged as a reason
for not imposing further taxation on the country. With re-
gard to the difficulty of collection revenue in Ireland,
such difficulty might exist, but the present prospects of this
country ought to make us take every means with • view to
raise revenue wherever it could be justly levied.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not
say upon any strict principle of justice that an Irish gentle.
man ought not to pay this tax as well as the possessor of in-
come in this country. But there was a wide difference
between assenting to a principle and carrying that principle
into effect at a particular and stated time. In the crse
of the spirit duties, for example, it had been found quite
impossib'e to raise the same proportionate amount of tax
in licked as was paid in this country and in Scotland. After
passing Ireland over for five years, it would be, he thought,
• cruel thing to impose the income tax upon that country in
a year during which the country had suffered so severely. It
was to be recollected, also, that great exertions had been
made to that country during the last year. They bed for
the first time affirmed the principle that the property of
Ireland should support its poverty. Thin had imposed a
new burden on Ireland of not less than 2,000,0001. per an
num ; and, even during the last four months, that
country bad paid no less in the shape of rates than
63.5,0001., whilst during the same period of 1815 the
aum collected was only 162,000. (Hear, hear.) Now, he
did not say that the mere payment of poor rates was a
reason for exempting Ireland permanenty from income
tax; bat what he did argue was, that it would be both
unfair and impolitic to impose such • burden at the present
period. Such a measure would discourage every internal
effort, and probably would render it necessary for England
to make further sacrifices than she had already done for the
sister country.
Mr. HORSHAM confessed that he thought the decision
they were called upon to arrive et was one that involved very
considerable difficulty, especially considering how long Ire-
land had been misgoverned, and what had been her
recent distresses. But he could not argue that
there was no principle upon which a distinc-
tion might not he drawn between England and
Ireland with reference to this tax. They stood now in a
different position with reference to this tax to the
position in which they stood upon former occasions. There
was not an injustice or an inequality in this tax that Irish
members had not assisted in perpetuating—(loud cheers);
and it might fairly be said to them that the only hope that
remained of getting this tax equalised was to impose upon
the Irish members themselves the injustice they assisted in
perpetuating on others. (Oreat cheering.) It was not as a
measure of retaliation, but as a measure of self-defence, that
they ought now to extend " equal justice to Ireland." (Re-
, pealed cheers.) On that ground he should vote for giving
the Irish a joint interest with themselves in obtaining en al-
teration of these unequal laws. (Hear.) And it seemed
! to him, he must admit, that this was an excellent opportu-
nity of earning out the principle of the right hon. member
for the University of Cambridge, who proposed the other
night the very Pound theory that all taxes being nnequal it
was desirable to equaliee the inequalities of one tax by main-
taining the inequalities of another. He hoped the right hon.
gentleman, by voting for this amendment, would show that
his practice maintained his principle. (Renewed cheers and
laughter.) He concluded by saying that he was not without
regret he gave the vote he intended to record. He knew
the difficulties the government had to contend with in Ire-
land he knew the great advantages the present
excellent Lord Lieutenant was conferring upon the coun-
try by lay conciliatory as well as by his decisive policy.
He took a view of the present condition of affairs at home
and abroad ; and while he had no apprehension of any other
effect, from the position of foreign countries, upon England
than injury to our commerce, he contended that the aspect of
things should lead to a course of policy which would satisfy
the people of a firm determination on the part of the govern-
ment to act in all respects fairly towards them—cf a i esolu-
tion that no tax should be impe,ed upon them beyond what
was necesaary, and that every tax imposed should be fairly
and impartially levied in due proportion from all parts of the
country and from all clasper of the population. Regarding
this proposition as a question not of principle, but wholly of
detiel, he should give his vete in its favour.
Col. MUIR. also supported the motion of the hon. member
for Marylehone. He regarded the exemption of the Irish
people as not only a great injustice to England, but as a
great injustice and injury to Ireland herself, encouraging as
it did, in his :opinion, that dispoeition to indolence, that
apathy, which had so long operated with such effect upon
that country. As to the recent distress in Ireland which was ,
alleged as a ground for exempting the Irish from an equalitp
of taxation with the other parts of the empire, the same dis-
tress had. in proportion to the population, quite as heavily
afflicted the people of Scotland. and had fallen grievously
upon the people of England too, yet neither the Scotch nor
the English were excused one farthiog of the taxation
ordinarly levied from them. There were hundreds arid
thousands of men in Ireland drawing as placemen, pen.
loners, contractors, and so on, large anierints front the im-
perial revenues ; why were these men to be excused from
contributing to the imperial revenue (Hear. hear )
Mr. ROCHE said that then- had been much said that
evening id reprobation of the disaffection alleged to
created in Ireland by a certain party there, but the prop—i-
tion of the hon. member for Maryiebone would create far
more :lisaffection there, were it carried. then ell Mr. Mitrhe'l
could write or Mr. Dillon sry. It WAs monetr to find she
same gentlemen who opposed the income taxesmn Eneland
as unjust and inquisitorial. eupport;nr impo-it'in upon
Ireland, where it would be doubly unjust.
Mr. BANK ES said that if all the hon. members from Ire-
, land had pursued the COIITIC which the hon. member oppc•
site (Mr. E. B. Roche) had done with respect to the income
tax. the argument which had been urged by him against
the metion would have hail gr at weight; but he (Mr.
Banker) had found himself ir. the lobby Pith the hen.
member in the d.vision against the income tax, whilst the
great majority of the hen. ineninsi.. fi um Ireland hod voted 1
' for its continuance. Ile recollected that when the noble font I
at the head of the government prneosed to abolish the engin I
duties, one of the objections which had been pressed bybim-
sell and those who participated in his opinions was, that
there must be some other tax imposed annually, in lieu et
the sugar duties, and that not on acconnt of any considers-
ti3fM of revenue, but on the e estentiousl around Or
holding some control over the government. (Hear,
hear.) The noble lord at the head of the government
then admitted tne force of the irgumeat, and deelerea that
it wee not his intention to vary the constitutional practice of
leaving a large amount of the revenue department upon the
:nnul vote of parliament, but that he must reserve himself,
at the same time declaring his readiness to prop • e Innis
otaer tax which ministers would be arinuely obriyed to tame
to parliament for. He (Mr. Bashes I. iii a right to elm
his surprise at haying heard the prime ministea dee'lan that

he staked his ofßee—and that at a moment when it was den-
geuerous to change the ministry—upon the house grant,ne
income tax, not for one year but for three years. (Hear,
hear.) The eight bon. gentleman the Chancellor of the
Exchequer also distincey pointed to the income tax as that
which was to replace the logic duties, for he urged
as a reason for consenting to abolish those duties that
the income tax would come under the consideration of
the house during the next year, and for that reason be
would not then propose any other annual tax. The income
tax had now come under the consideration of parliament, and
the right hon. gentleman declared that if it were not greeted
the government would resign. (Hear, hear.) He fur one
could not but feel that it WAS not consistent with justice that
England and Scotland should key the income tax, and that
Ireland should be exempt from it; and for the reasons he
had advanced be should vote with the hon. member fee
Marylebone.
Col. DONNE said that the argument which had been
urged in favour of the motion had been pleaded usque ad
stausenns--(hear, and a laugh)—but when it was amerted
that the tax had been carried by a majority composed of
Irish members, he begged to remind the house that if the
vote paper was counted, it would be found that there was
a majority of English members in favour of the tee,
utterly independent of the Irish members. It would be a
somewhat extraordinary anomaly that at the very moment
when you were advancing loans to enable Ireland to support
her poor you should be contemplating the imposition of an
sdditional tax on the country. When the same laws and
advantages enjoyed by England were extended to Ireland,
he would be the last to object to an equal mpertioning of the
taxes on both countries, hut be saw no chance of Irelaea
enjoying those equal laws and advantagu, at least under
present circumstances, and he must therefore oppose the
motion.
Mr. NEWDEGATE (who on rising was met with a pro-
longed oh !) said the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when he
argued that it would he impolitic to extend this tax to Ire-
land at present, ought to have remembered that the advances
for the relief of that country had been drawn from the weak-
est and moat distressed classes here. (Hear, hear.) If the
people of Ireland were living on charity, to were the people
of this country. (Divide.)
Mr. WAKLEY had voted in 1815 against this proposition;
in 1848 he would vote for it, and he would tell the house
why. In 1145 the tax was understood to be only temporary,
now it was stated by the leaders of bsth parties that it WAS to
be permanent. lie could not go to his constituents and say
to them they should be taxed for the purpose of reliving
the landowners of Ireland. (" Hear," and " divide.) In
11445 the hon. and gallant member for Donegal supported
the measure, aChavieg tended to support public credit, and
reduce the rate of interest; and he added that be ap-
proved of it as having conferred a great advantage on his
country, fur it had relieved the landdcd interest.
Mr. WAKLEY—There could be no mistake on that
point. (Ili ar, hear.) The great landed proprietors of Le-
land supported this tax because it relieved them, by throw
ing a heavy burden onthe people of England. The poor widow
in England. with 'an income of 1501. a year, bad to pay
the tax, while the wealthy landed proprietor of Ireland paid
nothing. (Hear.) Well, then, seeing the disposition of the
Irish members to fasten this burden on the English people,
we must endeavour to fasten it on them also, as the only
means of compelling them to make common cause in the en•
deavour to throw off this injustice. (Hear) In 1845 the
Chancellor of the Exchequer (then Mr. Wood) said he had
never been able to discover any reason why the gentlemen
in Ireland with 5,0001. a year should not pay this tax as
wall as the English gentleman with the same income. (Hear,
hear.) And, he added, Ireland is exempt from the unwed
taxes. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman seems to
have forgotten that now. (Hear, hear.) " And he saw no
reason why tho rich Irishman should be exempt from taxes
which all Englishman had to pay ; and that if there was any
country in the world in which a tax should be imposed to
press exclusively on the rich and not on the people generally,
it was Ireland." (Hear, bear.) This was the opinion of
the right hon. gentleman in 1845. There was no country
more hghtly taxed than Ireland, and when Irish members
complained of having to pay 2s. or 3a. in the pound poor
rates, he could tell them that in some Englishes parishes the
rates amounted to 10s. in the pound. In justice to hi. con-
stituents and to the people of this c.,untry he (Mr. Wakley)
felt bound to give his snpport to the motion.
Col. CONOLLY complained that the hon. member, in
quoting his speech of 1841, had stopped short exactly at the
point which suited his purpose, but which altogether per-
verted his (Col. Conolly's) meaning. (Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had a simi-
lar complaint to make. The other evening the hon. gentle
man had given his right hon. friend a lecture on the organ
of justice, and now, to show how largely it was developed
in his own case, he had, in quoting a speech of his (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer's), stated so much as was neces-
sary to give a meaning to it totally different to that he had
intended or expressed. On the occasion referred to be was
arguing against the position taken by the right hon. gen-
tleman the member for Newark, and the right hon.
baronet (Sir R. Peel), that it was • tax which pressed
exclusively on the rich ,• and what he said was, that in
that cue it was strange the right hon. baronet should have
excluded Ireland, because that was a country in which a
tax pressing on the rich and exempting the poor would be
peculiarly applicable. That was altogether different from
expreasing an opinion that the tax ought to be imposed on
Ireland; and to show what his opinion on that subject
really was, he might add that when Mr. Roebuck brought
forward his motion to extend it to Ireland he (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) voted against it (Hear.)
Mr. MONSELL could not admit, under present circum-
stances, that it would be any injustice to the people of Eng-
and to exempt Ireland from this tax.
Mr. HUME regretted the injustice which had been s
long inflicted on Ireland, but really felt that the best polio) o
would be to make that country pay all the taxes that Eng-
land paid, in order that she might have a claim for all the
rights and privileges enjoyed by England. (Hear, herr, and
cries of " oh.")
Mr. REYNOLDS was surprised at such a doctrine coming
from the hon. member for Montrose. Formerly, penal lawa
were framed against the Irish people because their religion
was not that of the state, and now they were told that before
they could be admitted to equal rights and privileges they
meat bear an equal amount of taxation. But Ireland was
more heavily taxed than was thought, and when the income
tax was passed for England and Scotland they instilled
beta the measure an ingredient of taxatiod for Ireland by the
assimilation of the stamp duties, which, during the last five
years, had realised no less a sum than 600,0001. The Irish
incomes of wealthy English noblemen, such as the Duke of
Devonshire and Earl Fitewilliam, paid the income tax; and
what else was there to tax in Ireland? Of commerce and manu-
factures she had none; so that he defied the hon. member for
Montrose, who was a living monument of figures—(a laugh)
—to point out any tangible property in Ireland capable of
bearing the income tax. Exclusive of indirect teem, exceed-
ing 4,500,000 e, Ireland contributed to English prosperity
by consuming 12,000,0001. of her manufactured goods.
(Hear, hear.) lie had heard many reasons against extend-
ing the income tax to Ireland, but none in favour of it,
except on the ground of uniformity, and because Ireland
was an integral part of the empire. But she wan only
so in name, and deserved more so be called a colony. The
unanimity of Irish members had been refereed to on this
question, He begged to assure the house that their una-
nimity was almost complete ; end he hoped that during
the present session they would afford many proofs of that
fact. They combined for the good cf Ireland, but not for
any purpose inconsistent with England's prosperity. He
voted against the motion of the hon. baronet because he felt
that Ireland was not able to bear the tax—although to the
principles of an income tax he was not opposed, where it
could be supplied with the view of lessening taxation upon
articles of consumption. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MUNTZ complained of the conduct of Irish members
in the recent debate and division which fastened the income
tax on the people of England. If they had left the house
without voting be should not have wondered ; but, as they
had assisted ministers in fastening the tax on the English
people, he should on the present occasion vote for the motion
of the hon. member for Marylebone.
Sir A. BROOKE rose to repudiate the charge that Irish
members had combined with ministers to tax the English
people. The question with Irish members on the recent
division was not only the continuance of the income tax, but
the continuance in office of the present government; and
as, on their tenure of office hung the continuance of Lord
Clarendon in Ireland, he for one would rather submit to a
tax of five per cent. than do anything which should deprive
Ireland of the cervices of that noble lord. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WILSON rose, but the impatience of hon. members
for a division prevented his obtaining a hearing.
The committee divided—For the motion lOB
Against it 238-80
The Cit kIIOUN reported progress, the house resumed,
and adjourned at half-past 12 o'clock.

ELECTION COINIITT-- ES.—TEsTERDAT.
DUNDALK.—At the meeting of the committee, after
some discussion the raom was cleared, and on the re-admis-
sion of strangers, the Shairtnan announced, the com-
mittee had dei.idcd that (the sitting member was not
disqualified on the allegation tlu t he was an " alien."
Mr. Serjeent liin,r'ske then objected thrt Mr. M'Tavish
wes net entitled to retain his teat, he having neglected
to make a declaration of qualification when demanded of
him, in accordance with the provisions of the statute.
After consideroble argument, the committee resolved that
the return was null and void, on the ground that Mr.
M'Tsvish had fxikd is comply with the provisions of the
statute as above referred to. The scrutiny was then pro-
ceeded with, and at the close of the day's proceedings the
original majority of 3 was reduced to 2.

DENMARR.—CHANGE. Op MINISTRY. MARCH 4.
—The chaugeswhich have been for some timeexpected in the
Dan.sh c..binet have been officially announced this day..
The Nestor of our statesmen, M. V. Stemen, Minister of
Justice and President of the Danish Chon,ert., is removed
from all h's functions on the Ist o: April next, and has been
appointed Lord High Chamberlain. M. Oersted has be.-n
removed, at member of the Danish Chanoety and Procurator-
General, to the office of private minister cf state, and mem-
ber of the committee la ros:.thte, the prujca of the constitu-
tion. M. Von Bodentleth, Minister of St ite, hes been ap-
' Pointed Minister of Justice end President of the Danish
Chancery ; and M. Aloreenriss;ng to the post of Procurator-
General.
COPENP IGEN, MARCH 10.—The Birling Gazette
state, from ourlouht^d authority CAL immediately sitar re-
cessing the intelligence of the subversion cf the French
monar7hy meviires were concerted for sreuiirg the euuntly
and the espitel from any stuldeu attack, and the requisite
order' were issued for defending the citadel and the c met,
and for arming and mounting the troop] of the Rae. At the
same time measures were token for the complete ganioning
of Rendsburr, and for immediately commencing the preli.
i; wow of the fortifications of Copenhagen and Rends-
! ire fur supplying the reserve corps with subaltern
onkel a, to tint event of their being called out.

Vu

ISIS

LONDON, SATURDAY, MAR. 18:
We expressed an opinion yesterday that M. Lt.
DRU-BOLLIN was not the man to resign his power
and to recede before menaces even of the
national guard. We judged but too truly. We also
expressed regret at the moderates rushing .00 cow
into quarrel and collision, on account either of !ADM:-
BOLLIN'a wordy circular or of his objeetioas to ny•
tional guards being distinguished into
grenadier, and centre companies. The rational
guards have borne so much since the 2- cf Fe-
bruary that they shauld have awaited the usiNling of
the Wational Assembly to take their Stan against
the exigencies of the popular party. There was
little doubt that the majority of that assembly
would be moderate. At any rate, having submitted
to its convocation on the principles ofuaiti,i,v;acrsae
tsuf-
frage, they had better have awaited ani:
.hided by
its decision. If that decision was impugned by the
popular leaders, or attacked by the p
was the time for the moderates and the national
guard to have rallied to the majority of the assembly,
defended it, and confidently appealed to suppart from
the country in a constitutional struggle.
Instead of this, they h :ve
.made a false ad prep*.
tore move. Their unarmed procession and tianifesta-
tion, nominally on behalf of mere distinction of
uniform, has falied, and may be misconstrue 1. They
have been hustled by the populace, and defeated by
LEDRU-RoLLIN, whilst they have serion,;v cam-
promised the position of their friends in the body of
the Provisional Government.
We regard the present state of things with infinite
concern. Though not blind to the risks and difficul-
ties of the present government, we still entertained
hopes that patience and address might have succeeded
in metamorphosing the present ascendancy of the
working class into a more regular government, is
which property, and experience, and talent would
resume their natural influence. The people, even
the lower order of Paris, are not all anarthiats.
BURET, BVCIIATELET, and other writers, estimate
that Paris contains 30,000 persona who live by
robbery and rapine, 30,000 more who are hi general
of insecure livelihood—the two classes toga .her ripe
for anything. But there are at the same time four ix
five times the number of industrious labourers and
artisans. To separate the well-meaning of these from
the professed anarchists, should have been the effort
of the moderates and the national guard. But an
emnete in behalf of grenadiers' caps, or against a reps&
lican circular of a minister, was not the way. to do this.
And we feur much that as the combat is now re-
gaged, all the lower classes will be on one aide, and
all the better classes on the other It was madness
to have provoked such a combat before the meeting of
the assembly. For, nothing but anarchy and terror
can be looked to as the result of such a struggle. The
comfortable citirens of Paris have by no mean, the des-
'aperate courage of its "dangerous classes ;" and should
M. LEURU-11OLLIN set himself at the head of the lat-
ter, we fear that he may succeed. We e.l fear;
for even the character, policy, and purpobe of M.
LI.DRU-ROLLIN would be changed by so fearful
victory. And, however inclined to moderation before,
the party behind him might demand measures and
recompenses, very far ineeed from moderation.
It is premature, however, to judge, and by Ws
venturing opinions upon events in the couree of cora-
whe rrounwntheoulsbkvof thebeingfust
sacroenatrawdare how
ictedan
and ttidings. But it is impossible to smother anxiety. Ths
French are evidently on the verge of all that is
ePgierteig°nriouweei
awful—of massacre, of civil war, of prolonged and
helpless anarchy. May we be disappointed in our few,
that the moderate and the midling cl asses are wanting is
their country from rolling into the abyss.
the energy and the wisdom to keep themselves sad

THERE are symptoms of discontent with the geed
amount of the naval estimates, and the small most
of fruit which the annually increasing expenditure
bears in ships fit for public service, which render h
likely that the forthcoming discussion on the 'seamen
will be a severe one. The letter which we printed ea
to
Thursday iseoonsubtbsetaaryffiienrvieinenital„ymiihnernhoaaretmrivgedoai
ndtieoonwnftliiwyttehhpess!tesehsee i:salloppint':As
tht"upenrPartiekeylifardamor
competent to improve. After rehearsing ibe
known total failures of the Janus and Amphin
steam-ships, the united cost of which met
exceed 100,0001., he quotes the Trident,
which in two years has only bet n able
to perform a run of some six days in the publie
service, and the Myrmidon, which has b en pro
moaned unfit for set vice. Again, out of four strew-
vessels, the Rifleman, Sharpshooter, Minx, sad
Teaser, the second is found to be the only serviceable
ship, and the engines of the first are now jusi dime
vered to be of double the proper size. if the evil be
serious, the cure is deplorable ; another steamer
therefore dismantled and converted into a lighter, her
engines being turned over into the Rifleman; thole
of the Rifleman to be turned over, no doubt, into
something else, and in turn to displace some third per
of engines which may happen to be equally unsuittelto
their place 1 In conclusion, we have the Niger, Con-
flict, and Encounter, by Lang, Symonds, sad
Fincham, all useless, and undergoing extensive alters.
tions.
What may ultimately be the issue of all these ire
stances, which for the present are failures, it is not
perhaps safe to predict ; but the fact as it stands is
simply this, that something between three and foar
hundred thousand pounds of public money is at the
present moment invested is vessels, which, instead d
doing good service in these critical times, are blackleg
up the docks in the public yards, and occupying the
time, men, and money of the public service witbalter
atiens, which in the merchant service would noted,
be disgraceful but ruinous. Public boards are thee
able to convert the ample funds committed to than
not to the purpose of producing a supremely excelled
class of steamers, but to the performance of a greater
number of failures and unsuccessful trials than asy
private establishment could afford. How long the
system, er no system, is to continue, the Howe el
Commons will have to inquire, and also, which
much more difficult, how it is to be remedied.
For the purpose of bringing the question at ham
between the public and the Admiralty, to a speedy
solution, we have to suggest thnt the following
very simple course of inquiry should annually be made
of the Admiralty Board and dockyard authorities.
—How many new war-steamers have you produced
during the past year? Their tonnage and power?
How much money have yon expended on their hulls,
and engines, and outfit ? How much on repairs, eed
how much on alterations? How many miles of
steaming, of how many horse-power, have been pee-
formed in the year by the whole steam navy, and how
much has that performance cost per mile, including
Carol fuel,
well stores, repairs, reinpaitrsh,e and wages ? These figures
enable the public to judgeprivhaotewsefarrvicev'aanlued 17smiriel-
ceived for the enormous bill annually drawn on them
by the service of this expensive department.
We have reason to believe, from such returns as
we have seen, that the expense of the annul
service per mile of wur steamers, exclusive of the cost
peculiar to them as armed vessels, has been more than
double the sum that would have been expended
had we neither possessed dockyards nor factories, but
simply ordered them from private workshops of the
eoudtry the store ships and the stores which the
sereice required. At all events we are quite sure the
tho vessels hitherto produced for the public service
are much less efficient for the end designed and mach
more costly than those procured by the merchants of
the country for the service of commerce. And it can-
not be unreasonably contended that the construction of
a war steamer is more difficult than that of a steamer
which, being designed for heavy merehandise,.
re
liable to a variety of immersion and stowage to which
the war steamer is never exposed.
Is the debate on Mr. HtStei motion of last year,
the new Secrete.ty of the Admiralty complatned,
not without reason, that he and his colleagues had W
bear the blame of all that their predecessors bad doe
in every previous government, whereas it should
have been recollected that his colleagues batsbl d just
bar:oaprdtedofa ren
fecnretinreeely
unnedwersyLostermd,
jhoaivi
whose report no ships were in future to be constructed.
‘Ve have since learned that the former SiterePw
the Navy, whose west of science and experience as n
constructor was said to have led to so many of the
former blunders, has been induced to resign, and that
a new surveyor, said to pollees' all those qualifications
which his predeceseer wanted, has replaced him I

Somerset House. The public expect of Mr. WARD
that the promises to amend the system which
he then made, and the hopes of iuiprovement which
the public entertain from his well known talents for
practical business, and the expectations of an enlight-
ened and liberal system of administration of the con-
structive department under the superintendence of Lord
JOHN 11.14, have not been doomed to disappointment.
but that the secretary will this year be enabled to
Rive such an account of abuses rec:itied, defects reme-
died, prejudices abandoned, obstructions removed, im-
provementa introduced, scientific principles adopted,
and a liberal, just, and enlightened course of practical
policy entered on, as shall afford reasonable guarantee
that in future, for each sum of 50,0001. or 60,000/.
voted by the public, there shall be produced to our
navy the addition of one powerful, fast, seaworthy
steamer, capable of carrying her armament, working
her guns, and performing under steam the longest
voyage for which she may be required, a conclusion
devoutly to be wished, but to which hitherto we have
not seen a tolerable approximation.