The Express.
London, England, 1849-02-03 00:00:00

I

blew up, in an lawns, eke wry grate ammo
whisk he had peenenneei eggs the Maid seeretay •; bat,
ff the hen. gentlemdm amid Mesahen. M isle wbk tabs
fag sett the present see earn. he (Mr. Stella) misebesnW
that his esacissau, if he ahead be a wise sen, wan Sig net
the esisain were too mash fet a limb Waster to
and if he should be a bold ewe, he week set kwlMe
obis:
avow it. There wassail ether peat get te whisk be
to refer—tt was the marked all essOm of the eirlealea.
rat interest in her Welty% speak (Hear, hear.) Ile
conceived that when other imams& were ineedemsd, Ike
=kit and the largest Interest aught not Ina been
emitted.
Sir W. SOMINVILLI said it was sat his feenilisa
have taken mg part la the debate, sad be low INNI
merely I. earaegesue of the meth embeesdialay spark el
the hes gasiiknas who beeps. eat lows. He weals ally
Welk the bee" berever, with wry Om semeelw, *see 1
holes =Was= to Iltesehlsel state Irish per The boa.
losegts r asisittisa spinet tie gsvaraniat
Cavherillesmandid Why be
mummittes opus dr
Irish pesslaw. Why be caw
ls=sevillel ram=hwed
that last arias. whoa his be. sad glint kind (Celled
Dense) hese& Armed a seed= bessiim—sue
same law, great 'bleeds= were =he
which the goveenatent them mesa The peening=
were .crawl et resisting slant the ensneasee Opinion
of the Irish members; and who. they asked the bee= to
wait ant.l they should receive lb=of one eamaksion
only, that they might have sores as to the working
OW law upon which to yenesel. that was not admitted to
le a valid excuse ; but still =Were taunted with as
lad/position to meet the of Irish members
upon a question vitally the interests of
the seentry. Well, the =le gentleman odd
that the govern/um had got the iskrmstiem new upon
whisk they might art—that there was the report of a cam-
Weskit sow lying spa the table of the hMse, which gave
them all the inkresation they could require upon the ques-
tion of reducing or enlisting the area of taxation ; and that
therefore they should art without the tideland= of a
eosamittee at all. (Hear.) But be would remind his hon.
friend, that that commiedon was vomited at the very time
the
when his boo. and giltant kind moved for his committee.
ri iiiizmise of
.governm.st howent, that that rem-
should b issued, and, every possible inform-tion
collated, was not at all taken to be a valid reason why the
mama of his how. and gallant friend should not be seseleel.
On the , his boa. and gallant friend presesel his
mare, sad still refused to wait f,r the eoramoelon. The
bets jentisau who had last addressed the house, staled
that Ze (Sir W. Bomerville) had alway
abases for a very large area of tas been wee
xstion. He
sertaia/y was not aware that he had ever expressed such •
asap he certainly had resisted a motion tithe
has, • :or a townland rating. (Hear, hear.) Hs
kerbs. front entering at pre .ent further into the question of
the Irish poor law. Thu g ,vernment were determined to
keep the prumbe they nude at the end of last session, that
at the commencement of the ; rant session they would avo-
cado the appointment of a ecmmittn. The government did
not intend, as his hon. hien f supposed, to throw the whole
question as he said, Uwe., before that committee. It was
with Warprias that he had 11, and the speech of the hon.member
for Meath (Mr. Grattan) upon the opening night, and be
sincerely trusted that the house would not be led away by
the exaggerated statements which it contained. The boa. and
learned gentleman stated that he wee a ruined man. (A
laugh.) His hon. and learned friend stated that if be were
a younger roan be would go away from Ireland altogether—
that he mu ruined by the poor rate end that then was no
staying in the country. Then his hon. friend stated
that the government were demoralising and ruining the
country, and he added that there were 400,000 ab'e-bodied
men at present receiving rations of 14. a day throughout
Ireland. Now, in opposition to that statement, he (Sir W.
Somerville) could mature the house that at that period of last
year, when the maximum number of able-bodied
men were receiving relied, they did not exceed
siztrave thousand. (Hear, hear.) He knew that his hon.
and leaned friend made these statements without sufficient
knowledge ; hot that wu joat what he complained of, and
what he wished particularly his hon. friend would guard
Mr. GRATTAN explained. He thanked God that he
was not an Irish secretary.
Sir J. WALSH raid that they stood now in a very dif-
ferent positiot, with regard to the Irish poor-law, to what
they did last year. If they wsra in the same petition now
as they were last session, the charge of the right hon. gentle.
man might be well founded ; but the circumstances were
not the same. Ireland was not in the Nome con-
dition, the experience of the poor-law was different,
and the feelieg of the country had materially changed.
A strong feeling prevailed that there was a necessity for
some measure of relief, to stentothe progress of growing evils.
He wished to take this opportunity of addressing
a few words to the house on the subject of the Sicilian and
Neapolitan question. Questions had been pat most
palatally by Lord Stanley and Lord G. Beata& to her
Majesty's government, and they bad been requested to
Mate what were the intenions with which the British fleet
appeared in the Bay of Naples, and whether it was in the
contemplation of government to inteekre by force of arms
or is a hostile manner between the /Mg of the Two Sicilia
and his revolted subj,,e s. The noble lord at the head of the
Foreign Deportment, shrouding hirowlf in that reserve weld.
was A.m. to ht., gave a most dhinet refusal to impart the
least information. He (SirJ.Walsh) had therefore OM ratio*
of a motion that the house considered that the appanage
liit W. Parker's dart in the Bay of Naples called for eapik
sttion at the ban 'a other Majesty's government. lie hod
brought on th notion es an am-ndment on going into sm.
mattes The noble lord, the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs, was not is the house, but the noble lord at the head
of the government had met the motion by explainiogthe
ground upon which the appearance of Sir W. Parker's last
took place. Not being satisfied with this
he had put oth, r questions and understood.=
lord to answer that r William Parker had net vio-
lated neutrality. It appeared that Sir W. Parker Wad no
objection to the sailing of the expedition. If there bed been
any valid cause why we should have interfered, then was the
moment in which we ah'uld have interfered. The came for
Interference had not ari-cn, and neutrality had not, up a
that ;triad, been departed from. The expedition to Mesdna
was sucamefid. Messina re Tuned, the authority of the
king was meatared, and there appeared every probability
that his authority would be istabluhed over the whole of
Sicily. Under what eircumdances, than, and with what
pretext, had this iaterbronce taken plea ? If he andentood
the noble lord, it was !wattle certain revolting atrocities had
taken place, and the French and English admirals thought it
necessary to interfere to atop those atrocities. By whom
was they committed? It was said that some of the milit-
ants soldiers of the Neapolitan army were killed and
esters. If such storks were without foundation he hoped
they wouli meet trom a competent quarter a complete
natation. He admitted that a discretion ought is be
pissed in the noble lord, the Secretary of State for Foreign
Aias, but the noble lord .ppeared to strain the doctrine to
a melt extravag eat length. The noble lord was the great
Maude of liberal and representative institutions throughout
Befeepe ; he was dedrous to extend popular and free %al-
lude= ; but there was one branch o affairs which he
withal Is arry en precisely on the principles on which
Illentelade sod Metternich had always acted. The priml-
y's@ whisk be =sib t to introduce would let aside all antral
es
the pert at the people. As to one or two ether
gebjeati cooneeted with the address snd the ameauseet.
The seble lord was prepared to afford a very large memere
elsetreahment; and he (Sir J. Walsh) was sure that if
Ids mann of retrenchment could be safely carried out—if
the wale bled, in the exercise of his responsibility, could
madam Is make a large reduction of our forces in t pre-
sent Oft Dram Weirs of Europe, we should have every ma-
nn to *eke. There was one part of the noble lord's speech
to whithhe (Sir J. Weigh) mat give his unquelilled adhs.
des. The male lord had ermiesseved a high inalegium
ea Lard Clarradoe, bat notsinttrthan was deserved.
Illet ewe was one point in in Lord Clans-
dlateeedut whisk had elicited his (EfirJ.Waish's) appraise-
Silk and that was his determined resistance to, and constant
illepsesailem of, every form of political agitation. (Hear,
Pity that each gad counsel could not take effect on
this safe of the water. But it appeared that what was ca-
ntata to produce unmixed evil is Ireland was perfectly
and wholesome in Manchester. (Protationistasers
Wratu it ainemazy to pat down agitation in Ireland,
with *estrous hand, while in Babied everything wee to
be headed over to the tender mercies of club law ? Yes, he
meant the law of the dubs. He should give his cordial
support to the am'ndment of his honourable friend the
member for Breklankasash're.
Mr. U. WILMA'S deprecated renewed Mammies on the
earn laws, but at the same time begged to make a distinction
bourses roue, ion and revenue. As to the Irish per law,
ite;trusta that it would receive the early and careful at:-
talks of acreeratasat, and that the universal feeling of the
Irish members would be attended to. He eats next to cien-
eider the amendment of the hon. member for Basidattram•
Aire. The hon. member bad quoted OIANSta•7II.6 saying
se to the little wisdom with which the world was gemmed, bat
might it not be altered to suit the hon. member's ant ease ova
he bad given proof of how little information enabled a man
to make a violent attack upon a government. (Cheers.)
Never had the hon. member drawn so largely upon his ima-
gination, mso sparingly upon his facts, as in his long speech
of the previous evening. (Hear, hear.) The chews made
against the government appeared to him (Mr. Wines) to
(solve themselves mainly into questions of foreign affairs as
what the hon, member had said about domestics matters
rested on mere assumption. The hion. member bad assumed
to give important information to the effect that our exports
had not been affected by the tumults on the continent, but had
been daring the last year as large as in any former
period. How could the hon. member have ascertained that
bet, geeing that no return upon the subject had been laid
on the table? Sorely he must have some man= sources of
Information, or else he most have Montana as a most rea-
lm assertion. (Hein, bear.) Nettling use be ego any justi-
fication for the hon. member's attacks on the foreign policy
of this country. The conduct of Admiral Parker in the
Meditensawm bad been guided by • met tint hasaae,
and enlighkesi policy, quite unilieNVlnlr Um bee. mew
ber's censure. he, avulse bad Odra=
to that part of her Majesty's speak whisk
the hews on the MOM of Gams is the
ninth and seuth of Europe, re el seam to the awe!
Austria and Piedmont, and of and Zeisteia.
Now, without going into details, he (Hr. Mess) felled upon
the house to beware how they eoadsseesd, in the selems
intoner proposed by this amendment, the pesested 1"11.1 of
her Majesty's government. (Ham, War.) In his
the conduct of the noble lord the Sweeny for Frsip Vino
had been one continuous and successful egad to prwethe
peace of Europe during the most puns= lima, oar was
such as certainly to entitle him to the of die
and of that house. (Rear, hear.) 41halt muittent:
Buckinghamshire had sneeringly asked „whir the go
vernment were about to join the universal posse salwt
a
Now although be (Mr. Milne.) did net go the
of that society,, he believed that there was grow-

de a snag
oinogavasetari etket = 'fiba enateyandaation et rim
(Cheers.) I. Winn On the movemeat fa bran
el bandit mass bid his promesed by that Ming.
• Wisp mot air al hannlip, bat a simian bat with a
inn band mans ism essanmen thamefrarthe et tie
won of wield night have been mini (Hear. MIL)
US belong •dhis anis kind, the Senteny for Faesiga
Atkin had sank *Winn le nal balm at
th bat
he Ida tenon sidik avow' Mir mktve bola
snide& fano War Ket in limn ban=ha hid.
Pelmet Ant biedini is a awe when en tit
e= if
imesnity wend ea have bees dill Me and the
Nunn= rimiessalas.sol who amid tell where gab b.
tunings amid have essled;? (Ken' hear.) Thsa.!as la
the inn albs Austrian army en the nation of floe dbla
by the Rodin sod French some, If the Lesbian army bed
mesohed ie Turin, could any an dent but that they
wend lin boa met by a Wein essay paring dna
Hoistthe AW (Hear, hoar.) Mike gainer sin tbst
en Mad see all the enthusiasm of Osman math
been restaimmt from afloat Invade, by the policy of the
not.!, bed ? He believed emedentieusly that haste
historians would rank those acts among the wisest lint
bad ever been informed by statesmen. Men ben.)
It was very peesible that hostilities might be rearmed be-
tween Sie ly and other countries, and therefore he might be
permitted to say that with the very uncertain appreciation
which foreigners had of British affairs, it was not at
pr- bible but that the conduct of the opposition lest aft&
ht be the means of preventing a settling*
of the Sicilian question, and that it might lead'
to an internecine war. At a time like the present, when the
Neapolitan court was hesitating whether they should yield
to the justpropushi of the British empire, when that court
saw a party In aid out of the louse maintaining that the
policy of the noble lord (the Secretary for Forage Affairs)
was founded In error, hew did that opposition know
that upon their heads weeld not rest the guilt of
having forced two haps joked imam into an extensive war 1,
He had seen that a magma wee about to decide the
affairs of Italy. From that le entertdan no great hope,
and he did so beau. M saw on the part of almost all the
political men ate infatuation to regard the power of Austria
and Italy as something which it would be hardly ad-
visable to remove, and which the great power of
the Austrian empire made it extremely difficult to gee
rid of by any possible means. He had the nsidocise•
to differ from both these eentlusions. He bad welded
many yams in rue mantrim in question. and he had suns
, away from the Lombardo•Vsnetian kingdom with the alb.
Viet that the military occupation of those beautiful Mentrille
by strangers and unsympathetic and ungeniel goverameats
could not remain very long without causing dissension sad
tumult. Admitting the fact that that military occupation
was in itself a right thing, he had very little .charge
bring against the Austrian government. The Marisa
fvernment of Lombardy had been made the hewn ebbe
t of eulogy in that house ; but he must expels his lOW
viedoe, and he wished to do so in the meet serious
manner, that, so long as the Austrian or Venetian
kingdoms lasted, there was no security for the peace
of Europe. (Applante) Nothing was more certain
than that the Lombardo-Venetian kingd m was determined
to get rid of the Austrian government, and that that feeling
was equally shared by all classes in the community—by the
aobleman, the gentleman, the peasant, and the artisan ; and
the difficulties . were now much greeter than they had
been. He doubted whether any means of eowilktion
ware possible between these contending nations, for a
most cruel and iron rule had kept down the people, and
Austria was now carrying out the principle of establishing a
snood Poland in the midst of Europe. It was by emilecat-
big the property of the great noblemen, and declaring that
force and force alone should be the maxim of the
government, that Austria now retained power in Lom-
bardy : and, therefore, it was that, under these circum-
stances, the peace of Europe would not be enured so long
as that state of things continued. (Hear.) Poland was sur-
rounded by uogenial powers who remembered their in-
justice to her. There was no reason to suppose that those
powers would rise in her defence. The case of
Lombardy was different. On all sides except one,
she ha 1 a sympathising and homogeneous population ; and
therefore he did not think, under all the eirzumitinces, that
the proposed congress would lead to any good advantage.
(Hear, hear.) The questions of foreign policy were, he knew,
so little regarded in the house that he should not have ven-
tured to enlarge upon them at so much length if he had not
felt it right at the present moment that as many hon. mem-
bers as porible should try to prevent the prank:sterile which
he feared might result by the adoption by any large majo-
rity of the amendment of the hon. member for /lacking-
lianshire. That honourable member had a peculiar way
of regarding ell them subjects ; and considering how
largo a field there was far discussion, and how
little the be. member for Bwokingharashire was in watt of
subjects for display, it would have been more gratifying bed
he taken up soma other subject for jest besides that of the
Brat watitittional struggles of large portions of Europe.
The hen. member for Buckinghamshire hat also indulged
in mirth at what be called sentimental matters• con-
nected with "ram ;" but was there no such motive in the
sympathies of human life as race ? Surely those members
et the house who had read the literary works of the hon.
member for Buckinghamshire, wherein the predominance of
ease was made the sole motive, or cause, by which the world
itself eteVeil on—( hear,and laughter)—must feel that thathos.
gentleman was, under premed eiernmstanoes, at lout guilty
of a little inconsistency. (Hear, hear.) In referring
to the conclusion of her Majesty's speech, in which she
intimated her readiness to make considerable reductions in
the expenditure, be wished to allude for a moment to the
hunts thrown out in that home and elsewhere that the
quads* of financial reform had been forted on the attention
of her Majesty's government by the Financial Association of
Liverpool. Now, it would be in the recollection of the
house that her Majesty's government had not only acknow-
ledged the aseenty before for very large financial reforms,—
that they had not only expressed their perfect willingness
to motile loan practical financial reform., but that commit-
tees of the INlebets of the bons., upon whose judgment the
utmost mama could be placed, had been appointed in for-
eleg gnaw kr the coosideration of questions of financial
WIN& Ter gonna her Majesty's ministers, therefore, for
sateging Ma • question now solely under the influence of
the MUM has without came with a very bad grace from
the gnalinion apposite. No doubt great support had been
gives to bit Majesty's government by the agitation
of the wins eat of doors; and he certainly was not
one of *INS whet could agree in the sentiment exposed
by gentlemen ineseke, that public agitation on this particu-
lar question hid been either detrimental to the interests of
the country, or Inimical to the principles of the British con-
stitution. (Loud applause.) The house, on both sides of it,
had got a way of calling anything they did not like uncon-
etitutional, and on this question the pressure from without
was considered unconstitutional, beets*, the people were
taking an Interest in it—(hear)—and meeting, as they had a
perfect right to do, peacefully to
i argue and petition in its fa-
vour. (Applause.) Thepeophe were ntelligent enough toknow
that order was cheaper than physical form, and the principle
adopted by the League of meeting and diosessin wee, after
all, the eateet means by which any umbers could be carried.
(Renewed applause.) By curling out this meth' pia-
ciple on all meadow, and exercising the moot period right
of public meeting, discussion, and public order, we would
more and more recognise the blessings we enjoyed, living all
we did under a blameless sovere*n, with an unoppreedm
church, and a parliament in the main obedient to the desires
of the people. (Applause.)
Lord MANDEVILLE addressed a fear *narrations to
the house which were quite inaudible. He was understood
to support the amendment and to demand protection to
agriculture.
Mr. HORSMAN said be was unwilling to give a vote
upon this question without distinguishing between those
passions of the address to which he assented, end to which
he objected. The hon. member for Buekinghamahire had
entered at great length into our foreign relations and politi-
cal condition, and had gone so far respecting the latter, as to
assert that the experience of the last three years of free-trade
mammas had fully verified his predictions and justified his
denunciations of them in 1846. The hon. gentleman, after
going through a quantity of statistical details, and proving,
no doubt, to the marisfaWou of his party, that his pre-
dictions bad been telly verified, consktently concluded
by moving an amendment in acoordaaes with his
statements. The lest paragraph of that amendment
cieclated that " a brie portion of the agricultural mad colonial
interests dike empire were labouring under a state of pro-
gressive depreenkm, calculated a excite serious •
and eadaty." Taking the paragraph with Pgagssspeech
which baredneed it, the tabines must be that the Mate of
depreseion dined to, styptallai it to exist. wee sonseted
with, it. Indeed, it did Wet neolatcly spring from, them
free trade leteleffes, the nil results of whits rte bas.
nabs, pradisasilin 1663. Now for him (Mr. Hem-
mem) Ile vats in that paragratiatalan in seannirm with
the bin gentleman's remar would be to recent the
psiadpies he had professed in I , and that was certainly
a amens he wen not prepared to take. (Hear, basil Sub-
ennui entwines had esnimad him that, poitically
spiallis, Ile leghlailea of lin bad, in the course of the last
=ill us from wet appalling perils, and that, In •
point of view, we were deriving from
the flee bade measures of that year meat ad-
=mat(Hear, bear.) Another paragraph in the
slid, " that • neither our relations with
Actin powers nor the state of the revenue, nor the condition
of the manufactures or commerce of the country were such
es to justity.therhouse in addressing her Majesty in terms of
eorigratulition." Coupling this paragraph with the bon.
gentleman's spew* in which he regarded with serious sp.
faadia thin prepoekb of retrenchment which her Ma-
y% alma bid indicated, and in which he condemned
that what of wise maacray to which her Majesty's minis-
had saamenced theses/Ins adherents, he (Mr. liorsman)
is ad tote for it, lest he might be supposed to orient to
this della= that the desnmetanees it enumerated did not
*iffy An in amening to a schema of red ;tied expendi-
ture. Air=fatiti rSe boa. gentleman did not disguise
what was fa his Wad, sad that his amendment
was to be labia artto be with his speech, and that
the waft el OW latlon were regarded
as boss agents he had hisbetted and
sfaiwineljesto (Mr. Kim* End sot insistently with
bis gibni vete ths hen sens aingnment ry-
beirlibi it Ink sfa
onsinion He, caber' the =nary, hail cared
with inisbilisa pieseise of redwood nspontiture. In
the al the seek lord them was earbialy little that
eeali wain the din of those who were
.sefl to a »du-
ties af eignitine. Bat it was siseartheWiratifying to
him (Mr. oreneet), beans it .sanded the principle, and
whet owe a Wands was .maid, It mu* event ally be
ended oat, at laid to eine Meat. (Hoar, hew.) In Ms
°pintos, the aspect of affairs on the continent justified reduc-
tion. List year France was a volcano, which threatened to
lay Europe In ashes; but now, amidst a conflict of theories,
they saw one, almost one only object, sought for by
all, and that was a reduction of the national expenditure.
A political movement, gradually sending into grader In
patine, was going min favour of a reduct,on of the army