The Express.
London, England, 1847-11-30 00:00:00

—ode. seassiossedliop— lie nowseve. hr..
they'
bees UNA NO, el Sepoostoters el dose estop! had
be taw M..mslallissmollos, and wine saw=
fir 'W beer.) Ott= reatekod
fa. /Ws Wad-Pie= his welds Mod the
Lard-Liesiturot was p"49PI/4W 141 the
!Ira' SSW,
when the
wa sm s 4910 osilt sip sts=l:l4llbe lien lbws
scold therlsoly appeal tsJuriss kr "waft opAilirair li
wee prepared to aims lobo thew. (Eat. Um, Xi
Hoses it was that be did set ok the Mose to
tale tor the wassay trikaaak, tram* et amtker
.harems: halm that thrash the seal eraser of
law, the essewilee gooneseet week' he mare=
bring tandem to Tsai Palo lad
o=lo see
(Hear km) Hut do M4/11111119 woe emondlail
--Le cis moadoe, peesene, soma
ht sad dayday, iii
aleead An aim la the monad or a Mststildiltilod_ pos-
dead to hiss roe dot dodo to that head to the body of
Mr. ]lee, sad whisk W4/9 facetiously celled " ben and
'Maker " asp wof which hardly fail of tak-
Mir east. this was the state of things at present.
The pewees Mike Lord Lientansot were now confined to the
last eaassololary set by which he could only proclaim &s-
-tride which were in a state ofidisturbance. The Whiteboy
Ade, by their provisions, would punish offences of the kind
he bed stated, but where districts were not in a state of
distarbeese, they could not be proclaimed, bemuse
do onsral character of the district did not oar-
moped with the definition of disturbance contained in
the preesalde of the Whiteboy Acts. Hence there was no
power at present to meet these cases of assassination—the
power to proclaim was simply confined to disturbed districts.
This definition certainly applied to Limerick, Tipperary,
and a portion of the county of Clare; but then the only
power or effect of a proclamation would be to send down a
limited number of polite from the reserved form in Dublin
is co-operate with the ordinary constabulary force of the
eennty, and to charge the expense on the county, to be col-
lated at • distant period by grand jury presentment. Now,
dr bill he bad to propose he would shortly state to the
beam. The first clause would empower the Lord Lieutenant
with the advice of his privy council to proclaim any dis-
trict, and declare that from and after a given time the pro.
visions of the bill would be carried into operation. The
mooed clause merely provided that copies of the proclamation
shield be posted generally throughout the district. On this
the Lord, Lieutenant would be empowered to increase the
reserved police force in Dnblin from 400 to 600 men, any
portion o which might be sent into the proclaimed districts,
the expense to be paid its the first instance out of the
Consolidated Fund, but afterwards to be paid by the
county, district, barony, or half-barony, in which
the employment of the force had been necessary;
oniehalf to be repaid immediately, and the whole
at no remote period. (Hear, hear,) The government
thought, with the Lord Lieutenant, that it was desirable
that the whole shisuid be repaid by. the district. The bill
would contain provisions authorising an estimate to be
formed under the direction of the Lord Lieutenant When
any police were sent, the estimated expense of their mainte-
nance for three months from the time of their being first
sent would be made out, and means would be taken for im-
mediately levying this, on the same principle as the county
oess, which fell upon all the occupiers, no one who paid
rates being exempt from it. Three months' expenses would
be forthwith levied—(hear, hear)—and if the presence of the
police was required is any district for a longer period, at the
end of the first three months the same process would be
gone through ; and there would be in the bill a provision
for repaying to the county cam, at a remoter period,
any earplug that might remain, supposing order to be re-
stored, and the police to be withdrawn, at any earli,r period
than might be anticipated. He would next proceed to those
clauses which they thoeght necessary to detrain the at pre-
sent unrestricted possession and use of fire-arms. The
first provision would prohibit—with certain exceptions
enumerated in the bill—all Tenons to carry or have,
within the district specified in any such proclamation,
elsewhere than in their own dwelling-houses, any fix-arse,
,the particular kinds of which were enumerated, to revisal
evasion ; and any person who, contrary to the provolone el
bill, should carry arms in a proclaimed district, would be
Id guilty of misdemeanor, and would be liable to impri-
sonment, with or without hard labour, for a period not es-
ceeding two years. (Hear, hear.) The excepdens whist
it would be necessary to introduce were Ibis.: justices
of the peace ; persons in her Majesty's naval at imillhey ser-
vice, or in the rimatinard; persons in the earths. of re-
venue ; those in the police or co fovea, sr special
constables; persons duly licensed, or • deputatton to
kill game; and persons duly liemeed I. poems eons 14
afterwards in the bill declared; nth so solliators
of poor-rates, who were frequently the ddisele of
1 attack, poor-law guardians, and others who WWI eten-
riled to ge abroad is the discharge of their duties.
There would be a power of apprehension of all w-
ee= unlawlully carrying arms, contrary to the provisions of
this act; and a power to the constabulary to search all per-
sons whom they might suspect to be persons coming within.
the provisions of the act, and to be offending against it, and
to take away their arms, which would then be forfeited te
the crown. There could be no doubt the posesedsa of
eras had been sought for and obtained, in the wont
parts of Ireland, in these proclaimed districts, with a par-
reedy lawful purposein many imam (Ilea: hear.) Many
smaD farmers had obtained them to defend Zhentselves from
. .

midnight attacks, and in many eases those attacks had been
successfully defeated by the gallant use of fire-arms. (Hear,
hear.) At the same time, the government thought that the
indiscriminate possession, under all circumstances, of arms,
even in their houses, by persons within the proclaimed dis-
tricts—the persons themselves being perhaps parties against
whom suspicion existed, of being concerned in etanderous
conspiracies, if not in the act of murder itself—ought not to
be sanctioned. (Hear, hear.) They proposed, therefore, to
give the Lord Lieutenant a power of issuing, at his discre-
tion, a notice, applicable either to the whole of the proclaimed
districts, or to a limited portion thereof, calling upon all
persons not within the enumerated exceptions, and who had
not obtained a license in the way described, and front the
persons empowered to grant it, to retain arms in their own
houses, to deliver up their arms, by a day to be named in
the notice, at the nearest police-station, or at some other
station within the district to which the notice applied. After
such notice from the Lord Lieutenant, all persons knowingly
retaining possession of army, even in their own houses, would
be deemed guilty of misdemeanor; and the Lord Lieute-
nant would then have the power, by warrant signed by the
under or chief secretary, to order search to be made, in the
daytime, by the police, of the houses comprised is the die.
trict to which the notice requiring the delivering up of arms
has been addressed, and to authorise the seizure of all arse
in that district by the police, and the forfeiture to the crow n
of the arms so retained by parties in their houses, after the
netting of such notice. These provisions, with regard to the
indiscriminate possession of arms, the Lord Lieutenant cos-
sidered would enable him—with the additional police ferns
which he might be able to authorise under this act, and with
the additional aid which the military authorities, in concert
with the Lord Lieutenant, were prepared to afford in every
case wims ogled upon—these provisions he thought would
enable him offeetuolly to prevent the recurrence of crimes
by whisk meted& districts had been disgraced, to re-establish
confides= ht the minds of the well-disposed, and to remedy
that sierming state of things which was peralyeing the
energies of government, and neutralising_ the efforts, of all
who the welfare of Ireland. (Hear.) A further
providen d with the noseasity, introduced by the
preantlie of the Whiteboy Act, of proving the state of die-
, rarbenes la which a county or district was placed before
venous meld be prosecuted under the Whiteboy Act. It
was peovided that in any district where the proclamation
Res in Wee proof of disturbance should be rendered Imam
weary, if, in the opinion of the Lord Lieutenant, it had
lean or expedient to apply these provisions
Is a limited district not in a state of zirtc
am in a state included in the definition of "
disturbance ,•" and that persons writing or senate(
threatening letters, or appearing in arms, to the terror of the
pemeable and well-disposed, would be ameamble to the
pemalties and punishments awarded by this sot. Areetber
clause--a novel one—might be thought by MN to do little
mere than declare the existing law, but it Ms_sad its
stringency, and subjected parties to penalties for its viela
ties; sod_ he gpped it might be instrumental in preventing
the formaleson of that apathy and indifference which bed
re nook prevailed, and in checking the disposition to refuse
all aohteaos to the police in the apprehension of offenders.
Where any murder had been committed or attespeed, or
where there was reasonable ground for believing that any
araziar would be committed, the justices and oroatabies
weald be empowered to call upon all persons between the
ego of 16 ani.6o, rending or being within the aerie*, to
amid ha the search for, and the pursuit of, porno. charged
with tbe unagaission of crime. And, in the attempt to
dkoovee the persons by whom any crime bad bees era-
mined, they would be entitled to call upon sad require
sem" lash pawn to join in the pursuit and investigatioa. By
nudes each a clause parliament would declare it the duty
' of overt wall person to join in such search, mural& or
investiption, and to assist in the discovery and apprehension
of molt older or offenders ; and that every such penou
reviewer neglecting to join in such =weak, or to do his
else= to aid in the discovery or apprehending of each
othatide or offenders, should be guilty of a misdemeanor,
' and should be liable under this act to be imprisoned, with or
without hard labour, for any term not exceeding two yours.
Bash were the main provisions of the bill which he was
easion M obtain leave of the house to lay upon tie table.
Wbageore "pluton might be entertained as to its adaptation
to ebeek the evils which it had been his painful easy to lay
beton the house as existing in parts of Ireland, he hoped, at
thet the house would allow him to lay upon the table
a MU, which had been framed rather with the object of
preventing the commission of crime, and of facilitaung its
detection, than of eubjeetiag a whole people, for the orioles
and atrocities of a few, to the penalties of a rigorous and
vexatious law. (Hear, hear.) The government did not ask
fur the supension ..f the ordinary forms of law, or the ordi-
nary tribunals of the country ; but they asked for the means
of dispelling that terror, that well-grounded terror, arising
from a system of organised intimidation, which prevailed in
the districts in which the crime, he had detailed
to the boom had taken place. Whatever opinion
might be entertained as to the efficiency of the
measure the house would agree that it was the duty
of the government and of parliament to endeavour—by the
existing law, if they could, but if not by en amendment
of the law—to prevent the repetition of those horrible crimes
and atrocities to which the attention of the house had been
so painfully celled. They trusted that, at least, the bill
eng' ht be laid upon the table of the house; It being now
reedy to be brought in, it might be planed in the hand' of
members, and, it an early day were fixed for Its considera-
tion in the next stage, any objections with regerd to It might
be postponed till then. (Hear, beer.) He hoped, at Lest,

Qom., ,
Nion.BEtti 36. 1847.
aistimiu
two esis
Iglassis

A riMilutiaa he sow ____ p halt tem the
hoomfalt: "flat beviiii , , i fa a bill
It
..iaterratatrallied 1 ..eihers•oft NT= I
1 igreet•Zumendichogerseemot.c=ornmelie
th•gemorommt
reZrile lsoottaMtp session he
Me. I. mid he was
is the emblem el fhb 1411. In
h e =et
dome he hid hem. progeled to mad • math mom mere
mantel mil thboapiablise led hem emeneed by the
ices Met of edam whisk the data boa lemeet bad thought
it lb beg le tai Mae set pledging Massif to support
elliserthabiesit et the bill. hi wotalar est violate all the
ofM* ham by means the AM reOlag ; but he 1
Wthe tight lea. limed would allow imiledent time
the Nomad i .e/la
_be the bill to be mat to Ireland,
and wid _en theft eoncerning it. Its hoped that
fi_m_.ingLthis lemmul gentemsM would vigorously put in
th:Bginf W, sad see if that would not prove
reit77l is dlettelme• If ministers had any
meemme of Nil why net nalliesisee them at present,
mid show Met theedere mesa b smelly statesmanlike
*do Re ws44 net pledge ItheoW to mama to the
wring sf this bill usher a geed bodied end tenant bill,
and a goodtheasere of relief to the destitute, wen
in before this bill pared. However, he wield est too=
any opposite& to this bill, nor in the next formed stage, the
lint
MritANNOR said that, after the course which led
been taken by the hon. member for llilkenny, he felt him-
self surrounded with a great deal of difficulty. In the outset
be might state that there was no member of that house—no
member of society—no man in this land—whose heart more
shuddered at the thought of cruelty than his. He was proud
to say—end it could not be contradicted—that in the whole
course ofhislife he had never committed or sanctioned one cruel
act ; but because this measure will be productive of more cruelty
than heretofore in Ireland, he should give it his most strenu-
ous opposition. The right hon. baronet had himself admitted
the complete successor the ordinary law—he had shown that
Vie Lord Lieutenant had done all that could be done (and
the people had exhibited a disposition to assist him) for the
repression of crime. He (Mr. O'Connor) disapproved of the
prineiple of coercion in Ireland, and he would not have it go
forth te the world that his country required coercion when
she was asking for food. The proposed measure would be
creating a brigand police in every district, and it was, in fect,
• cop to the landlords, by the creation of more patronage, u
a set-off against the corn-laws. Ireland had asked for reme-
dial measurer, which alone would restore peace to his un-
happy country but she had only found the tranquillity of
starvation anethe quiet of the grave. (Hear.)
Mr. HOHSMAN said that, although he was prepared to
tappet a much stronger matinee than that which the right
hon. baronet had introduced, if there were occasion for it,
he could not give it his sanction on the grounds which the
right hon. baronet in his able speech had assigned for its
introduction, namely, the prevalence of outrage and crime
in Ireland. That was not to him a satisfactory reason, be-
cause crime and outrage in Ireland were es familiar to them
as coercion bills ; and they knew that such measures had
formerly failed in their effect. Neither could he support
it, because it was a milder mearure than usual, the only I
question being, was it suitable, and would it be effective ? I
(Hear, hear.) And whilst the preservation of human lifo I
was the object, he was convinced that too great a feeling et
leniency was little lees than severity and cruelty. A right
hon. baronet (Sir R. Peel) had been driven from power, be-
ause his government asked for and were refused, the
powers which they were now about to give to his 11110111KISL
(Hear, bear.) It was not because they had no mailmen in
the right hon. gentleman. that the party then in opposition
opposed his bill, but merely that they wished to give a death-
blow to the coercive system. It was upon that ground
alone that the noble lord who so ably led them founded his
opposition. The noble lord then said, that the coercive
policy was • mistaken one, and that was the time, once and'
for ever, to bring it to an end. (Hear, hear.) And be
(Mr. Horsman) at the same period quoted a protest
of the late Lord Holland against • former coercion
bill, in which he mid that the coercive system had been in-
jurious to Ireland, for he thought the gentry and clergy
were taught by it to rely not on the affections and goodwill of
their neighbours, but on the presence of the military; and his
lordship said that he further believed such measures eneou-
raged governments to postpone those healing measures
without which the Irish nation never could be reconciled to
the union with England. (Hear, hear.) Well did he also
remember the cheers which followed the announcement of a
right hon. genet, man, now a member of the government,
when he said that parliament had adopted a course which it
had never taken before, and would never be called upon to
panne again. (Hear, hear.) It was a serious question,
whether the poor wretches who committed. the crimes
which were complained of were the only parties by whom
the peace of Ireland was disturbed. His hon. friend the
member for Marylebone (Sir B. Hall) said there were oar-
tain societies in that country to whom much of the crime
which was daily committed was to be attributed. Did the
provisions of the law touch these instigators to the outrages
which were perpetrated? (Hear.) Again, an hon. gentle-
man onposite, in a powerful speech which was listened to with
deep interest, alluded, the other night, to the priests of
!rebind ; and they were told that priests denounced from the
altar by name some gentleman, who, be said, was the poor
man's enemy. The poor man consequently took the hint,
and sought an opportunity to shoot his enemy ; but whilst
they hanged the miscreant who liner) the shot, the not lets
capable assassin who charged the weapon and who directed
it aim was allowed to escape—(cheers)—for the provisions
of the law did not touch him. (Hear, hear.) They were
also told of wholesale ejectments in Ireland. A whole vil-
lage was sometimes turned out in a moment—the aged and
the innocent. the hale and the sick—their cottages were fired
over their heads, and they had to take refuge in the nearest
ditch, without a rag to shelter them or • crumb to feed
them. (Hear, hear.) The wretched outcast, feeling that
the law aid not protect him, took it into his own hands,
upon which he was tried and executed ; but did the provi-
sions of the law touch the rich man, who by one act might
in a moment jeopardise the lives of hundreds ? (Cheers.)
He had alluded to the agitators of Ireland ; but he ha
carefully read the history of that country, and he was not
ashamed to avow his belief that every act of justice which
had been obtained for their country had been the effect
of agitation ; and he was confident that if one-
hundredth part of the injustice which we bad indicted
on Ireland since the union had been perpetrated on England,
this country would have bran ungovoothble. He therefore
could not at all times severely criticise the language of the
agitators et Ireland, instigated ea they might be by the
miseries of their countrymen. (Hear, hear, hear.)
Unless some remedial measures were to accompany
the one before the boom, they should befollowing the perni-
cious example of former parliaments, and dealing with the
symptoms, whilst they left the malady untouched. (Hear,
hear.) He was prepared to put all the powers sought for by
the bill, and even more if necessary, with perfect oodidestee
in the hands of the administration ; bus he did my, they
ought to have an equivalent in the shape of remedies.
The noble lord at the head of the government sketched out
some of those measures the other night, and told them that
they were to have a bill for the sale of encumbered estates.
(Hear, hear.) He promised sn improvement of the grand
jury laws, and he supposed that an amended franchise, and
au improved mnniciul corporation bill would follow as a
matter of course. But, perhaps, the most important measure
of all, was that relating to the landlord and tenant question.
If • measure of that kind was not to be prepared, and if the
noble lord did not see his way in framing such • measure,
the speech which he made last year was a most unfortu-
I moth mei impolitic one. He knew that there were difficulties
1111111toseed with the subject, but in mattes relating to Ireland
damages were always aggravated by delay. (Hear, hear.)
netts* minister of the crown, when he succeeded to Aloe,
pledged himself to a remedial in ooposition to a coercive
policy, and his government possessed opportunities in legis-
• for Ireland, which no government ever before pos.
end which, - perhaps, no government would ever
I =seplielleN, for there was at the present time a perfect
et ell party feeling. (Hese, hear.) The govern.
meat of Wand was placed unreservedly in their -hands;
within dears sad out of doors they had an almost absolute
power. The courage and the capacity to turn these oppor-
Unities' to the hest account—thee parliament had not given
them, but they were qualities which neither this time nor
this parliament would suffer to be dispensed with. (Cheers.)
Mr. W. FAGAN admitted that crimes were committed in I
Ireland which would all dews the vengeance of heaven,
and if he thought that an arms act, or a coerciou act, or •
sorrow act, would have the effect of preventing a single one
of those foul crimes which stained the country, he should be
milisied to live without the pale of the constitution. It was
loomaes be thought a coercion act would Dave the opposite
effect, that, iastead of being a messenger of peace to Ire-
land, it would increase discontent and disturbance, and con.
sequently crime, that he opposed the measure. Former
army ant and the coercion bill of Lord Stanley had not the
affect of repressing crime, and he believed that the present
wessre, if carried into a law, would prove equally inefll-
eloilices. The whole population of Ireland were opposed to
which gave property rights without being amen-
a with duties. Teen was a struggle between starve. duc
1 oa the ono hand, and the rights of property
ea the other; and, whilst such a centime was suffered to go
I on, an armslbill would, be entirely useless.
Lord JOCELYN said he had seised the earliest oppor-
tunity of expressing his regret that the measures en:moiled
by the government were not of a more stringent and efil-
caciou nature. No man in that house could have success-
fully opposed them had they asked for powers which would
have crushed at once the hideous conspiracy which now
existed in Ireland for the destruction of a clam of men who,
whatever might be their faults, were entitled to security for
life and property. To give such security was the Arst
duty of all governments, and to obtain it mss re-
signed their natural freedom of action. Let the Wee
consider the position of a citizen towards whom the isms
did not perform its duty. The law rendered seal man
weak, in order to increase Its own power; but If security
were not afforded, man were in a worse eonditiu than they
would be where as law admit la tailing the law me
neither eprotector me an &WSW. Paralysed end power.
her, it offend no emenrlty is gig one who cum hewed is
its support. Then woe, (ideal, • law which dealt est with
rigour its orders and direalose—• law which Mistily oar.
riot Into effect its edicts; sad when the syslediet eel
bleed, law of the murderer MOM with the law at they ad,
the toss S was victorious. (Beer, hoar.) Ile Wheel,,
however, that dab of thieve ma ha
eel Yet, U memdeMaod Ida= lad
law or the land idea be ) I
Let him oak her Nagy% mbloters dgli=aLmegaillirN:l6
that by Oh bill they wore deist es that It wee is Oak
power le de ? let him ask the ice* lea. member Ise Dow
=atdid he Wok that this ommare would be ahiffillalsw
would pat • stop to sad enrage—tag It
*NM give pease heilltbe tektmarder
ites te seem mederbes t
It was most lemeame ties the boa gualemes Amid re-
speed, Ise it ma may is Ida Oat le led Wed dam them
es
the moat pried*, Ile ea ems
)il dem weld
le &hells& (Hear.) (Led heelpit odeittod la'

•
•
RMS. *Jr pro, •
._ _ , • - ,-• . •_. .
eteeetleo had ems aro the goverament *Aids the lest lest the reteise
tew meths: the ewe ewe only yawned two wollie age, hewn theowlsh
- doss lhat thee eery moths had boar ay. by tee lb: tits
eassudiva gsvammit li but the wilhoditei lei' to die- pert, ofirtel
he 111111611111 tD ney ereeteZol
"Zerill=allig=the with which they he 4 Rower 11