The Express.
London, England, 1851-03-21 00:00:00

MONSTER BARREL ORGANS.

with our awn Foreertheffiee for the iesue of paesporte, the i tablithed in this country ; they slereented spiritual Wee*.
charge for all ramparts to be uniform. Passports be con. : rence with the civil rights el iodiroioar, Goa the introdc-
ia oftioris sr in 0 (re du
lls, JUII MIKIS
sidcred to be on general principles ostlers thing., but so the ; Cod of ef • te f • Imillat. 'l' tie in
Here
we
antinneintal nate wuuld not dispense with them, all I they hied in the petition of them Roman cetholie primes
d do wie. to maleavour to make our own arrange- I evident': id the tyranny that Cardinal Withinan came te
wmencte" with the leut possible expense met inaeaTC.! esecute in England. After that, it was Cain to tell them
nienee to ourselne. He would brififelt, in the first 1, that theytrre not adiewas, tittnitthertrelig,toabeate ay
place, the equalisation of the price of English panaport. at ; Rumen ea . lic., as well
Ile had ti. and
independencei
nine and sll over Europe; and, secondly, be would tug- 'of thin protestant nation. eear many reason
gist the establishment of an office or department for the assigned which had induced the Pope to t
aggryssion.
issue of paseporte. The noble lord then m.oved an " Ad- Cardinel Whenian had alao gmeei them t reasons. Ile
deem to her Majnety, praying that she will be graciously said that the measure " we' based upon the fallowing con- I
Pleased to cause. en inquiry to be made whether improve. 1 sideretions : first, that previous to the act of 1817 the catahndo-
menta might not 11.• effected in the systems of grantee: peen- lies were acid under the pressure of heavy penal laws,
pone to her Majentvo suletem trarelline in foreign states." enjoyed no liberty of conscience."
. Now if this amereseion '
Lord PALMEtekTos agreed with Lord Mahon that it was to be deprecated as an unjustifiable act, the reaaallaYal of
was much to be desired that foreign governments would thee penal laws ought aleo to be condemned, for Cardinal
abolish the system of passports, which, vezatioue as it we., Wiatnien admitted that their relaxation was one ofthe
did not accomplish tie• objects fur which it was devised. comes to which it ntieht be attnbuted. (Hear, bowel
He had made certain experimental arrangements in the With regime to the cardinal's, statement that they had en-
foreign office with the stew of Imenine i epeeist: awl in. joyed 110 liberty of conscience under these lowa, the petition
ereseeiug facilities, and if they anceeeded, he should he of the priests of Beverley showed that they enjoyed more
happy to extend there facilities. Ile, however, ,ejected to liberty: of conscience under the of
system then they
the motion, inasmuch as the subject required we other in- meted to do under the authority of lasso enacted by the holy
quiry than the secretary of state could institute, and he synod. (Hear, hear.) But Ceadintel Wiseman went en to
might possibly adopt mot of the suggestions of Lord thy, " emend, that the religious orders had no houses in
Mahon. England." Now, what had the religious orders to do
After wane remarks from Mr. Bright, Mr. M. Milnee, with
farm matter ? Ile wine! tell them. They \CCM to be
and Mr. Urquhart, the v and the police to enforce the decrees of
Lord MAHON withdrew his motion. the apal; anal all those instruments of terror and per-
EMPLOYMENT OF PAUPERS IN IRELAND. suasion which they knew so well how to wield, were
I
Sir W. SOMERVILLE appealed to the hon. member for to he put in practice• by them. (Hear, hear.). 'rite etude
Tipperary (Mr. Scully) to withdraw the motion of which he nap's third reason was, "That there wee nothing approach-
had given notice, for returnseof certain correspondence on the ins to a parochial division." But how cold a parochial
subject of the employment of paupers in Ireland. He (Sir diviniou be necessary fur them in a country where they'!
W. Somerville) wished the motion postponed until an op- only numbered 500,01.141 persons? (Hear, tware Fourthly, l
put tunity were afforded of communicating with the depart- the cardinal stated that the increase in the number of their
went to which the motion referred. He did not know that chapels and mananteries was a reason which had iuduceell
there would be any objection to produce the papers, but the l'or to adopt this policy. But the bill before the
the y could not at present cuter into the merits of the house did nothing to declare it illegal for bishop; und areh.
matter. bishops to asniene authority, or to prevent their exercise of
Mr. SCULLY considered the matter of no much import- delve steel powers from the ACC of Roane. (Ilene, hear.) It
' ante to the owners and occupiers of laud in Ireland that he did teething to prevent the convening of aynods, or to im-
could not consent to weepone it. *I he hon. member then pesle the enforcement of their decree,. (Ulcers.) Having
drew the attention of the house toe number of circumstances referred to the cennn law, Mr. Newdegote went on to
connected with the present condition of Ireland, end the obs.rve that, having said that the cardinal looked to
refusal of the Poor Law Commissioners to allow the board of the religious orders so one of his principal weapons, he
guardians to employ the paupers in remunereting labour. now begged attention to the increase of the eon's:Ms.
He moved for " copies of all correspondence between the In 1817 there were 31 in this country; in 1848
Thurles !stud of guardians and the poor law eammis-inners there were 38; and in DOI, only four years after, there
in Ireland, between the Ist day of January and the 10th were: ea, being an increase of 19. Now, lie did net think
' day of March, ISil, relative to the refusal ley the poor law there was anything in this that was particularly at-
commissioners to allow the beard of guar tan to increase tractive to them as protestant', or any mown why they
the employment of the inmate's in remunerative labour. alveoli' rejoice. The house would not be guarding the
And return of the number of inmates in the different work- liberties of' all the subjects of this country properly, unless
houses in Ireland, specifying their ages, between seven and they pawed seine law for the inspection of these places.
fifteen, fifteen and twenty, twenty and forty, and forty and (Clicem) Ills boa. friend the member for the Univeraity
upward., the clamant se zes, and the number of able- of Oxford had presented it petition from a gentleman, who
bodied, and aged and infirm." was lately. a immix: of that house, respectine a yming lady
Sidi. GREY did not think that there would exist any who was immured in one of these prisons. lie allied el tea
objection to the returns moved fur, but it would recur to the this circumstance, 'seventh the hon. member for Dublin
recollection of honourable members that notice of the (Mr. Reynold-) had taken an opportunity to rise
station had only been given on ':ueselay evening. When in his plate. and to state that Miss lalbot was
the node*: hail been given the Secretary for Ireland had not in that convent as a postulant. He had authority
written to Dublin to a'sce'rtain if there veralel be any ohjec- front Mr. Craven Berkeley for stating distinctly that
lion to the returns, and it was impossible for them to have the original statement was true. The hon. member
an answer to enable them to proceed with the III,MIT that for Cork (Mr. l'ower) shook his head ; hut Mr. Barkeley
night. Ile therefore moved that the debate be adjourned had had it from MISS, or Mr.., or herself.erigaO
till that dee week. laugh)—the superior of the convent, (Hear, hear.)
The mutant of Sir G. Grey was then agreed to w ithout a Here wail a cue where the girl was mpanited from thou
divition. to whom she was bound by the tie. of lendred and ateee.
SUNDAY TRADING PREVENTION BILL, flora, and yet where her legal parent, the Lord Chtheellor,
On the motion of Mr. W. WILLIAMS the following were the keeper of a l'roteetant Queen's conscience, was utterly
nominated the select committee on the Suntley *trading impotent. (Cheers.) There was one of these places at
Prevention Bill: Mr. W. Williams, Mr. B. Wall, Mr. Atherstone, from which a nun once escaped. She was
Anstey, Sir De L. Evans, Sir W. Clay, Sr Bella, Mr. taken back ; but from that time no one could tell what had
Alderman llumphery, Mr. elienterrnan Mr. Waklev, Lord lICCUIIIC of her. One thing, however, lie did know, and
It. Grosvenor, Mr. Aleock, Lord 11. iennox, Mr. bankes, that was,
thattat 15 cwt. of iron stancheon% lied out
home-
Mr. Ker.haw, ardour D. Dundee diately . (Cheers.) These places were entirely me-
lt. TITLES ASSCMI'TION BILL. cleated from the world—persona lived in then, died, and
The order of the day fur resuming the adjourned debate mouldered away, without inquir ay, fur no ono
ever
eve
en this measure being read, heard of a coroner's inquest en convente
Mr. NEWDEGATE said that, in speaking to the motion therefore, he . thought they would not be doing
fur the Tema reading of thin bill, he did net do so with their duty unless they passed an act that would
any feeling that he wax able to give it his very cordial sup- open their tranaietiont to the public cyc. The min
port
as roleulaseel to effect the great object which the coon- nasterica in like manner, increased from Bin 1847 to 29,
try denidereted, but because in all the discussions which and this wits a sufficient reason why they should be placed
had Laken place on the subject one part of the question had under some kind of surveillance. (Cheers.) By the act
not met with due consideration. Ile alluded to the riggers- of 18'29 these religious houses were required to be re•
then which hail been committed by the agents of the Pope gistereel, and he would ask the noble lord how it was that
on the 'sovereignty and civil indmiendence of this nation. he had never (maimed an act which he eulogised so high) 1
110 contended that the most dangerous and uncou- (Cheers.) Mr. Newilegate then drew th• attention of the
stitutiond portion of the aggreesion was that on the temporal house to the increase of the Jenuite since their petronage
sovereignty of the crown and the civil indepen- of the present Pope. They were truly denizens, or rather
deters' of the nation. lot them remember that, outlaws, of the whole world, and their constant effort had
although the Bishop of Rome had taken on himself had been to overthrow every government, whether me 'ma-
to establish a hierarchy in this country under the plea that nervily or a republic, that was et all indepandent, or that'
there were amongst us a large burly of adherents to the refused to be subservient to their theism.. (Hear.) It had
religion of which they deem hint the head, he had sent a been said by the hon. muncher for Cork that they had the
ordinal, a privy councillor, a prince of lin chureh, here, merit of laving first asserted the sovereignty of the people ;
whose especial duty wet to preserve and extant his tem- but the hon. member forgot that it was the .1 ',suits Emanuel
penal authorty (Hear, beer). Having ohnerv. tht Car- Sue nd Mnthe who were the instigators of Saralee to 1
dpind Wisemiui, as legate n (Were, WAS armed with a greater wasa.eaireite e
hi. kine, or he would not have bilked about the
pewees than Dr. Cullen, and adduced proofs of the loyalty of the order. (hear.) The people of Switrerland,
exorbitant authority attached to the &Ike and rune• where the prottetants were two-thirdsof the population, hail
tem, of a m waited, Otte Of which was to labour stremounly uppotha the introauction of the Jesuits; and
to his utmost to " recover the goods of the theprotentent people of this country viewed them with equal
church," Ole. Newdegate said it was no matter of suppo- dislike. (Ilear, hear.) But many of the Roman catholicsof
anion that the court of Rome retained documents to Switzerland bad participated in the feelings of their pro-
misee: the title to all the property the Romish church teetant fellow-countrymen on the subject ; and he doubted
evil' hap in this kingdom ; and when the• house rentera- not that such was also the CUM in Englaiul. (Cheers.) Ile
land that that compendia at one time trim one-third to entreated the noble lord (Lord J. ituasell) not to conceive
out-half of the property in the kingdom, they would see the that the house and the ninon would be satiated with his
object of these men, and particularly when they Termite- measure. If be allowed acts to acquire a prescription, they
hered that the aim of the Jesuits was no lean than absolute would he held to confer u right; and when once that right
and universal dominion. It wax a long tile, since there was acknowledged, it would become obligatory M(1011 their
had been a cardinal in England, and he yen- Roman catholic fellow-subjects. (Hear, hear.) lie spoke
' teed Us 'onset that it was contrary to the coustaution and the aentiments of peaceable men when he said that they
to the lawn if England that this temporal tether of a foreign wen• willing to base this aggression met by the law: hut if
potentate. should be permitted to made in England. We it was not so met they would take the matter into their own
I hail three other cardinals in England, Cardinals item hand.. (Cheers, and cry of "Oh, oh !")
fort, Wolsey, and l'ule. Cardinal theinfort was the brother Mr. KNOX wished to expeeto lei%
owno indi
uct of tho
ernatem and
of Henry VI., and was entitled by his rank and his re- that of the protestant"etante la' teeter e cond
latienvelap to the king to a seat at the council board. But government. Ile helped that whatever measure was passed
leuliameut pained au act to authorise hi, stridence in the would le: extended to inland; fiir if she were left out of the
country, and presiding that when any matter touching the bill it would tse a breach of the Union. (Cheers.)
n•latious between the kingdom of England anti the Batman Dr. POWEIa denounced the bill se a persecuting mea-
see were di. cussed in the council he amulet mire. (The sure which run counter to the great and glorious principle
hon. gentlemen read an extract from the Bth roll of of religious toleration. The l'ope, he oleervol, had no
parliament in the reign of Henry the Sixth to that means of exercising temporal authority in England, and in
.fret.) Then with regard to Cardinal Wobey. At Ireland all secular interference on his part had been con-
the time he was created a cardinal the closest Mandy resi•ted by Roman catholic.. Unle"s the house was
intimacy subsisted between Henry the Eighth and the ;stetsons" fur the spectacle of Ireland, which w,ec already
It en WV. it was at that period that the l'ope conferred lashed into fury, relapsing into fictions, they would names
upon Henry VIII. the title of defeitsorfilfri and it wes at bill fraught with danger to the peace, trunquillity, and beat 1
Henry V lll.'s inetence that Weasel RAI 111/ide a cardinal. intereen of the empire at large.
Then came the cue of Pole. Ile was striven from England At this stage of the debate about a deem members rose
because he opposed the supreme power over the church of together, chiefly on the apposition side of the house. The '
England being vested in Henry the Eighth. Ile re- eye of the Speaker was caught by
turned to England in Queen Maryee time, as legate Mr. lIENror DRUMNiOND, who said he conceived that
to reconcile the differences between England and ltniw. the question had been confined to a (.M1114..1111101 too nun
The lent instance of a legate attempting to enter End- row, by sere ral hon. members who had oppose' the govern- I
land was in the reign of Queen Elizabeth. The Pore meet measure. in his opinion tha eptastimi they had to
at that time was very anxious to resencile England to (locum was nothing short of this: whather the Roman I
the church of Rome, and he sent the Abbe elamitheini• catholic% should remain a tele•ratad sect under the spiritual'
And what .141 Elizabeth and her council do? He found in dominion of the Queen, or whether the Oren should be
Cemelemee Iliatury that they tent to Him end warned him a licensed heretic under the spirituel dominion of the
not to come. Ile had been respectful enough to request Pope. (bleer, hear.) They also had to settle whether Bey
that lie might he Aliened, and the answer was that by an would have one-third of the population of this kinedone
ancient law it was provided that the Pope's nuncio should under the pretext of religions developme-nt, to be governed
act enter Englund but on lease first isleteineil, and an oath by a law unknown to the remaining two-thirds— a law which I
she, taken tea he should attempt teething in England they cowed red paramount and superinr to c verythine, either
prejulliciel to the king or the people. So the Abbe minium' or statute, which governed the country. Thisques-
elutigeoni was not permitted to cross the Chan- time would not be settled neither that night, nor by that
mi. Ile (Mr. New &gate) wished her Majleta debate, nor by that hill, nor by a hundred such bills: but
heal hail a council as willing to defend her rights. would probably outlive the lifetime of any of them. (Iliac,
lie wished the noble lord, when he heard, not that a nun- hear.) Before coining to the main body of the Pope's army,
cies with limited powers, but a full-blown cardinal, we. he should like to have something to S3ll with the skit-mine-
Rhino to enter this country, and that a catholic hierarch)) ens that had been thrown out in tee Say
of that battle,
INCA "ISOM to lw formed, had sent to reelinal Winentan ant tepeeiajly tin, idnin,„,phers who eseet„i to stand upon en
told him that by the common law of England he could not altitude superior to the:n all, and who asked, " What teeth-
he permitted to conth here. lusteed of that, he had been tie's it whether the dog eats the hog or the hog cats the
perusittaa to go on for three months, and the consequence dog—whether the papist cos the prutestant, or the protein
was• that the ultramoutene Party en the eel ~ i ~,,,,, taut the papist i Stand aloof from it all, and leave things
were rongimulating themselves on their success. . But to take their own course." (" Hear, heer," and laughter.)
he did not rely ou ancient precedent. alone when It was a pity these philosophers had not thought so some
he said that the aggression was a violation nut two or three year, ago, when they „nac„,..ded to eerie,
may of the LAM of this country but of international law, down from their height, sad I, meddle with a bill
sflie• nettle lord in the able speech which opened this debate sent up from that houth, giving as a rcawou for
—and weold that he had continues' in the spirit that had inserting a douse iu that bill which had offended
•Uetass -I it ; if he had dune us he would have been at this
the Pope, that they would not have him to send an
element the mest puwertul premier ever known—he would alter ego to this country. as an ambassador. Instead of '
base 16.111051 his enemiee—atakieg an a member of time doing that, the Pope had now sent a piece of hinnalf pan
p
elle...time he believes! the noble lord would hale rendered lesiva sorporis, as a cardinal was described. Giese, hear.)
teeth fame riess, and they would not have been in the posit Ile well now thew hew little reliant,• could be ph ia •d on
t they were now in ; but the noble lord wear- anything said by a Roman eatholic m,thlwr of that house.
toe to ly, after expressing his settee of the indignity (Ohs.) lie aid not think the hon member for Dublin (Mr.
*h.,. 4 to the ermine and of the insult inflicted on the
iteynuldo was a bit more capable of wilfully deceiving the
teeteen, had east down the reins of power, and when he house,
c any- other aaiedsaynicnr onghe.hu ntoa
he really
ito
did not
when
nOtlielieit wax acted
vwe,tivanao,him-
o- tined them it lead been in a faltering spirit, ill calculated self or
that there was a difference between the court of Ro:ue and
to the press set time—the noble lord iu that speech adverted
to the pee:eon, by which catholic countrimituareled them- the church and bishop of Rome, that hon. member had
distinctly denied it. Let him hear what Dr. OPliale, a
wale s egeilest the Aggressions of the church of Rome. Now
the ,use of the intrusion of a cardinal was most recent in most unexceptionableauthority,hadead before the education
Pewee. The Pope appointed a cardinal archbishop of committee. lie said—" The doctrine and principles of the
Kee nest...re in is 29. The Prussian coursed unlettered the court of Rome are not sufficient to establish the doctrine.
i naattyr, and asked him whether his office included also of the catholic church. Vi'e distinguish between the court
l' :Metall authority. His reply we. "only spiritual," lie of Rome and the see of Rome. (Bear, hear) The court
, as then asked tee take the oath of allegiance to the Prus-
of Rome may be the scene of much were don and cabal,
p
em crown, and he refuses! to de so on the ground without affecting the authority of the ae of Rome and the
decrees of the catholic church." How, after thin could Dr.
newly he could not serve two masters. and that he had al-
Wiseman assert that it was only th " lae: of thi. cavalry
elm taken an oath of allegiance to the l'ope. The ques-
which drew a dintinction between the two, which :Tem
I tion then arose whether according to Pruseian law he could
otherwise indivisibly and unchangeibly united ? Of all the
be allowed to remain in the kinedom ; and the answer of
impostures put forward on While' of the Rombh church.
the Premien council was in the negative. This decision
this of the inseparable and unthanecable unity was the
,h,t,el men seeeert tee hi sent to hen• with which he left greatest; for that church bad been arHteirnautallbiyh.cohangn.
was comniunieated to the cardinal, and the government
the kings, . (lieu, hear.) There were also certain pro- always aiming a ja,,,,,aed pawn.
had
beenwas inaudiblesaidthc inpotpehe
ta.galtsil
no furoaeca
or
armies.
reeding% connected with an Archbishop of Cologne, whog ei nn
'hatge
eine refused to take the oath of allegiance tocry several nunutest. It
fleets or armies hail he ever had ? And yet he had contrived
the Prutesian crown, and he was put under stem
point . lie to do about as much mischief in Europe- as any gentleman
reamer. But that was not a ease in
thought if the noble lend had adopted such had ever done—(laughter)—not excepting Napoleon and
steps in the first instance we Memel have been in a post-
others,
to consider this question far more calmly. At present . got ;,11 who had cominanded great armies. 'the I'oPC had
the armies he ever had, by which
.we had this cardinal at the head of a whole eonspsracy of 'Sail effected so much mischief. lie hodthe
tisame
priests agitating the country and using means for the dis- designs,
turbines of men's mind.. The was one attribute of a we
-
to gate to which he wished to call the attention of the house. unchanged and unclonge alee • tee der lance
re' ' was,
him. The iulrocates of the Pope asked where was the
, The house wished to prevent 'synodic:el action. He would attack, and said it was nothing more than a spiritual re-
tell them how to do it—exclude the authority which Fen-
'synod canonical. It was established by the Council constitution or development of their hierarchical system.
dared a syn
I of Trent, that no national synod could be summoned unlees I How came the Pope then to sand a cardinal to this country,
I afortunately so long exempt from the presence of this sort
summoned by • legate
sided over by a legate a &fere. its decisions (creme and unless it was pre. lof gentry ? (Hear, hear.) Did the house know what, in
null sad sold
At
the Synod
of
muck.
the were the opinion of the Pope, a cardinal was to do? In former
Pope had times• a cardinal named Bouillon was
taken measum to have it presided over by a mole:rater, on'of his e • exPaled from
France
who Was there in fact to carry out his decree. lie wasthen accounti 1 evil conduct; and in a letter which the
not surprised that Vac iniests to the district of Beverley re- •
that Pope at sl to the King of France, he declared
coeed at the idea of being under the rule of Dr. Wiseman, thatcardinal was superior to the law of the country,—
which he thought might be inferred from the petition they' so soon as ecclesiastics received order' from the
church they become exempt from all lay power, in
had sent to him. They rayed that his eminence would I order treba subject only to the apostolic see. Would
out
ahcoiatc
that
foror
of
the
canna law
which
had .
been
to; be
CS- any Roman catholic in this country claim this

huirrlium• wanted to know if the govemment in
tended to take my sterol to put down those monsti r End-
a/mei the huge barn' organ*—(great laughter) -which
now were daily wen sod heard in the streets. (Much
laughter.) The paper* of the day contained uremints of
the • veirlents which these organs eauveil, by frii.Mtiming
horse% and, he enigiet sty, by fright• oing nova to. -
(llauzhter) -and it was shameful that they should be to-
day+ 4.
Sir U. GREY did not think the government RR* in
poi...ion of any opciirie power for dealing with haw l-
owans -(lavmhter)- 4mt, on doubt, ma dangimius olntrue-
tinr in the street, th y would eirme under tke notice id the
THE. VESTRY OE I.AMIIETII AND SI:NI/AV

exemption for Cardinal Widee'WM ? (Hear.) Allusion I ThesSPEAKER-The hon. member is himself stitiltby.of
twhiethdfinarawtalahoufactheinOlo the!
sahnadpethiinr d
we 111
c, si... s ,i
tt o
LT.* i titxt a,i
nn
had loon inade to the eantinalla oath, and it wa. All
quite ! a breach oaortler-(cheer.)-in now interrupting t. _
clear whether they were obliged to take one or not ; hut it, member for Surrey! (Hear, hear.) I did not n-nture) to ptire.zoredf
f...(tgir,Lesart,hreaardhigiiiu„trfirp.w..tonantottels;iry7rttleiira,i
objection to tlae bill is-first, that it is en ceteweei of
era. found M some of their authorities.: ilentdlosole.sr.i.imi tite
afoul.i , rdt.s.pirainiotV.taheaahloni
h.
immentinhearrafLurr.Sci(mHz.r,
h(,l.lier.a)r,
learn%
rely
lowing words, literally Mandated :
Itille.,..tecoyaore:zalfireaesdinetatac
.hodpe,suaathtaat_hon(hear. ge,tihtaalem,e-m
aporiallicei.aittrebe.neta% ;‘)_ani'..l,;asamndfl.y.r, tlii,art„,i,taids.ttla.i...,
.irteys. ey,...slanof.
(Renewed cheers.) Now, lam at once met by that ee-
Fialellayrbetithf:imitt.larrfare7lltA andp
oe'!o: a
ilxt iigmal iceenf ohs:tree:7,lh eaanab,llieonas Sda:lal tts tern and live,h
I.
e, ' took
(lit
4. , . .
holy lord, and emceed' -ihear hear)-abetain from all expressions
vaalLinZot•sca-Iw:li'n,arrZt.; gin' eV. ‘... Int t I 7.11-6
Ithl delCeeSsle e and will fight (roe proptinotetroot) for their that were likely to hurt the ...cling, of We're. heers.) raireousweliaffilatainaltr)
honour and etandMst ageing nu, with all my endeavour. Mr. DRCNIhIOND again rove to address, tan! ouse. _ iv‘a.hthicilsi
__ . ,
__ _ .
___ .
and all my power." After a man had Liken that oeth, Mr. MOORE-I rise to older. (Lowala
aatr.e.lepeimit\timet. tfitioeiti.itiefgreialttnatais natf a,,l.l„aciameDenantlsdin
ari.f.dr, ii.....n.v.i...,e
,11,,.,..,,,..,,,,_us
would any one My that he rink! take another to the Queen? cries of " order," and "chair.") It is n
He would n 0... to unother claw of gentlemen, the speetful to a portion of the member, of this house, but I I and if I had any doubt upon this meter I.
noe, hew-
ightest doubt that there new r
utilitarians, who said, " What is all this to us ? or how air it id out of order in any Christian aseembly. (Loud .
,ilew tehnetertspaieeca hahauf
othe Solicitor-Geueral, 1 e titii.t,
can the apmeintnient of these bishops affect our civil or cries of " Order, order, chair, chair.")
e
religiousliberty ?We as de not kor require protection The SPEAKER-The hon. gentleman is out of order,
will of Ireland vros a matter bearing e
tupon
country the peof merase 11111
er go"
aved
against them." (Hear, hear.) But did the mem lames (Loud cheers.)
irnportanee than the bill which we are 110 W shoo-Ong.
come ti ask for protection ? I/id the factory children coma Mr. Duestetoon again rose to speak.
to ask for poitectium ? Did the poor girl who was locked Mr. GRATTAN-1 call the him. gentleman to order- (Hear, hear.) Ido mit thinhati ha. beenalloii.i.;l lie ii.ny
up for the ieurpose of being starved or whipped to death, (loud cries of "Chair, order," and " twee, hear ")-in con- menilier in Mitt debate. 1 I r...iiitine y gagsreif n. it i
a,i \l aj ..
that the prieste might clutch her money -(ole, ..11)-res sequence of the improper expressions he bee lewd-O. chair, ty'es Tinieters atuhat in
%re. Atitniiise ir.dht, ..t.f,,,
the c';,'l.win"jl
quire protection? (Oh, oh.) Ilonourable gentiemen might chair," " order ")-and I have a right to move that these all et el, lof the i
aegresseen, it e .0. lens
oh," but these nunneries were either prison% or expreseinns be taken down. (s. Oh, oh," and " hear: ')
at:
par,.affe:itheelk
tiy)
deal
wiiithre., rstilialil:l:de.
aa:t!leofp(aipalt„atgßaii..aa
a, ..„.„.
.d!!a:
brothels; and hon. gentlemen might take their choice. an old member of this house, I tisk you, sir, if I
(" Oh, oh," and confusion.") not Monter in taking this course, and if some of your pre- tinguished from that of Inland. (War, h. ar.) Ido think
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SCRILEY in to order. deo:wore have nut elnetiouol it. Os Oh, oh," and with them, that if legielatium of thie kin
at
tempted, it Was alsolutely necessary that shod,' he leen-
He had just come into the himse and heard the lion. mem- " Chair.")
bier for Surrey assert that "nunneries were tither prisons Mr. J. O'CONNELL-I eectond the motion. (Repeated la.attii,elian....ri
to esamgmbrace the whole of the Unit King-
braietingtothela.vilionleN.am. of .thelaiiiitheyloliaingi...llo.l.,...iluaat
or brothels." (Clamorous cries of " Hear, hear" from the cries of " Order" and „Chair.") all
Irish members.) Now, he wished to know if it was in Mr. DRUaIMOND rose. , ed
order that hon. gentlemen should make such mocrtiosis in Mr. GRATTAN-I insist on my richt as a member of dint, then observe whit fell from the rally law
that home in reference to Litho; who devoted themselves to this, house. (" Order, order," and great excitement.) Milker of the crown who him add:es-eel the how,
the serviee of God he pursuing and endeavouring to attain The SPF.AKER--'fhe hon. gantlernan is mistaken in (Hear, hear.) It is quite dear that the eireelentenoo in
to the perfection of an bunion virtues ? (Hear, hear.) his explanation of the rule of the house. (Cheers.) The Ireland referred to by the Solicitor-General to hie sets oh on
The SPEAKER mid that nothing that lead fallen from hon. member for Surrey ie entitled to use any expression a fernier evening, had nothing to do with tio, orris al of
the lion. member Mr Surrey was intowident with the fro- he may choose provided it is not personally offansive to any Cardinal Weemen in Mi. country, awl the inolitien to
stain of debate. (Conflicting cries of " Hear, hear," and member of the howe, or disrespectful to the house itself. organise a hierarchy inetead of a teureeiteolelie. (Iloir,
" Oh, oh.") (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Surrey woe not out hear.) What were the cinsumetanees which the "elicitor-
Mr. 11. GRATTAN-I shall have a conversation with of order. (Rear, lour.) What I said womanly a. • matter General wens pleased to dwell mine ? Ile wee• eloised to
the hon. gentleman immediately. (Cheers from the Irish of precaution, and was not intended as a reprimand to the designate the pereon eeleeted
lynx the Pope_to 1., tile Roman
member.) hon. menther for Surrey. (Cheers) catholic Archbishop of Armag an Italian in eie ',hear,
Mr. DRUMMOND-Where ? Is it here? (Laughter.) Mr. J. O'CONNELL rose to speak, and continued on hear)-it was thus that he stigmatised him. N.t s aimed
Mr GRATTAN-Oh also here. (Renewed laughteo) hi. tree Mr sometime, during which the ericaltrdt'e " Witte that, lie dwelt on the towel o' Thiele, as towteuting
Mr. MOORE suggosted to the hon. gentleman (Mr. and " chair " were so loud that it woe inspowible to one of the principal nomns why leehlation was net
Dmmanond) that the subject he was then broaching was hear what the hon. gentleman said. And what statemvut did he make? Ile said this bill W.na
likely to lead to die agreeable feeling ; tool in hiS OPiniOn The SPEAKER-I must call on hon. gentlemen to sup- be efthetual for the purpose of doing what ? Thots were his
the language of the hon. gentleman was not at all consistent poet me. (Loud the
I have eta, d that the hon. words ,-'s Veer could not have episeipal jurioliorrilt they
with the dig
of the house. (" Hear, hear," with cries of member for Surrey was not out of order, and I hope he could not intruder- the oinon law ; they eseilel not a - inlet°
"chair," and "'order.") will be allowed to preeeed. (Loud cheering.) in synod and frustrate the decrees of the Mopgi oil parlio-
Mr. DRUMMOND contended hon. gentlemen had no right Mr. DRCNIMOND-I Was not out of order. (Hear, moot, unless there were !Ashore with tendon el titles, and
whatever to interrupt hint by their exclamotions. How- hear.) I was. ntO reprimanded. (Hoer, hear.) But, if in that this bill would eft's-ens:illy prohMit." NOW, ehoove, by
ever, by and by he w.nili nein to the great evangelical down
itt territortal titles it is the dosigu of Mi. Lill to put
virtues which were said to be advanced by these ladiew the heat of debete-(" oh, Oh")--and in eeneequeure of
down the emeatibeed viihropecy of Deltoid, oe &too,. them
(Renewed cries of •' Oh, rat.") The noble lord who moved therepeated and otensive interruptions-(hear. hear)--any-
of Me power of meeting in some, led the reasona,•igovil
thino ha* toceped my lips which has given offeme to eny
is, that the pope, the spirals:a head of the Roman ee
thacatholiccatholicamendment (Lord Arundel and Surrey) asserted that he, in
iielividuid-rilthougli I do not retract one word of the Sub-
church, has plat',4l at tlie heel a epioeme
connexion with several other noblemen and eolith:men, lout,-stancthe
ofey of
the rc chuh
tinned the Pope to restore the hierarchy in England; and that eof what I have staid-1 beg pardon. (Cheer...) The church in Ireland n elergy men
the Pope in doing so only complied with the. request of the leen gentleman then proeeteled with the remainder of his
of Rome, where the hon. and loam ,-d a ent lemen
catholie. of England. Ile (Mr. Drummond) never saw the Speech,.
bet the temper of the hmoe was so warmed and ex-
cieel with the previous scene that it was difficult to hear deaigaatea an Italian ?flank. (Hear, b. ara; If this
pentane referred to by the no,ble lord; but as he had said whet he Said. Ile was sl,,,in;t . to say wthai bill be effected f. o than mirpow-I Heart the law of the
so he would take it for granted. But he had in his ox- Solicitor-Gen.rid-I doubt whether his deseripti.e..aeravell-
rate, hut if his law Ile isouna--if his deo-Mit:on lo a .4e --
session a petition signed by the late Lord Petry, ne well so he hall been inttorulited that Cardinal Wiseman
had shown Thomas it Beeket for hie model.
then I say that all that was done in MAI, in a:: eating the
by several other mailmen and gentlemen, in which they Now, the death of Thomas a' Becket, cruel and unjus-
Romilll catholic, to equality of civil rights No, ii. gothilio
prayed the Pope merely for a subdivisi.ni of district% fur
ecclesiastical yurposest, and the right of appointment of tifiable nit woe, but the end of a bmir seri., of con-
in importance meets:teed with the course which Vol: en, new
chapiains. Now, that was a very different course from testo the object conondeil for being whether lure is seere to
aske'd to take. Fair 290 peas, long baf ore eithele. emenei-
that taken by the Pope. And what was the result? be Subject to the Mil power or not. Now, it was not a
potion, there wee en organised einstegetey in Irelawl.
Why, that the eleegy at present were completely dc[ n- little reinarkable that Cardinal Wiseman should have
clunen Th..... aallecket for his moslel. (Rent, heat.) In (Clwers.) The canon law did preaail in Ireland, ennui-
dent on the bishops for subsistence; which would notlotted and undieturbed by our legielatimi, aid, whether
what WM had this act of aggression been received Ms Cer-
ise the case were the. petition 'awarded by Lora l'etre and (Hood Wiseman 's followers? (hie of them says that the their meeting ow termed a synod or not, the Bowen
the other gentlemen aulepted by the Pope. (Bear, hear) agitation to which it had given rise in this country " WWI but catholic prelates of Irelantl did usetenble, did tend. r,
He (Mr. Drummond) had in his pilot's-solos a letter written
, e passiona ere o the spin o I toped,
th ' I •f''t f 1 ••• hog he aharoas did come to a derision on all mattere which
from Rome that very year, in which hes was assured that te •
rated the Prete:omit Church of England as a "de- they thought affected the epiritual lithe-esti of
the canon lew was pre pared and ready to be put into that country, and they publielied that whith lad
moniacal system of three hundred years old." (blear, Itear.i
the effect of a evnodical decree. Now, sir, I mud he per-
effect in England, and by which law the bishops became Were they always to lithe to throe things ? (Hear, hiar.
absolute mmters of the temporalities as far as they poseibly , c/a .. hear.) 'flitted, since Mi.+ quedMii protente itself to my mind in
Was such language to pass wilt impunity . 1/4 ear, .
could. (Hear, hea(.) Now this was what the new hies thee aspect, in reference to the hearing of the measure
'ftemper ems maim contain; lettatelMen neretonam:'
rarehy would do in Engine!. ("tie, oh," and laughter.) upon Ireland, shortly, very shortly, to retrace our policy
The powers of the bishow were very great over (Hear, hea(.) Now, with regard to the remedies which with regard to that country. Having referred to, and (meted
the private, as well as over their flocks, as a proof of which should be taken to meet this 11,....A55i011t he had already hum the correspondence of Lord Lindenolerry, the hon.
he might refer to the Earl of Shrewebtery's pamphlets. said that the prennit bill was not sufficient. lie gentleman went on bu say, that until the you. 1829
There wan the ease of the Rev. Dr. Mulholland, for in- thought it was both unjust and uncalled-for to there was no eoneeesion, Out n firm stand was made
stance, who had to appeal to parliament, rind Dr.O'Finnon, include Ireland in the bill. (Hear, hear, hear.) on the penal rode. Lord Coenwallie, the great general, the
suffragan bishop to Dr. )h cafe, who was dismissed fur But they Mould pass a law to prohibit cardinals from his Mg cone uerur of rebellion, hail at the union ea. heel a bold
appealing to the King's Bench in 1837. (Hear, in this country-they should pees a law making all drools and large concession. Whet happenedin Mt ? Why,y. the
hear.) Because: that bishop (O'Finnon) appealed to pa-sed under the canon law null nod void de facto. (Hear, conqueror in a hundred battles, " the forenvot tam, per-
the ring's Bench, Dr. )!'Bale precured nn order from hear.) They should pass a law such ae existed in Bavaria, ham, "in all the world "-he is firmeet in resistant... where
Rouse fur his dismissal ; and adulated that he was His- prohibiting VOWS frum being taken by permits who went it Knee of duty iinpele him to resist -I mean ties Duke of
Moot for appealing to British law. (blear, hear.) Now, into conveuts and imam:rico -(hear, hear)-and the law of We lingtun-in 1429, haviug put off eorieto•ien to the last
whenever the encroachments or ambition ef churchmen mortmain Mould lee so extended as to present the clergy of moment, ie elelletereelell: with Sir Robert 1'e,.l ,ttel Lord
were referred to in that house stone' hon. member all sects from naelaite any thine man of any wet. (Hear.) Lyailhuret, who for years had been the great
was found to get up and assert that melt occurred only in Ile believed that they beef mine to each a state of things opponent* of coneteeion, on principle* es hich they
the dark ages gone by. Well, he had taken some mein, to not only with regard to the Roman catholic church, but had timer hesitated to avow, and which tit, y defeuisnded
examine matters; and he had then lyieg before him rz- with regard to the church of England and the church of it, this boost. with stale great ability -these men. I say then,
tracts from the reigns of twenty-one Popes-(•• oh, oh," Scotland, that the y could go on no longer. The in- without any change of opinion., even avowing thot. they had
an.l laughter)-extending from the year 731 down to stitution of monkery nail similar institutions might DM changed their opinion, yielded reluctantly to an over-
within a very few years, all asserting the same thing, have their use in former tiMe's hut their day had whelming necessity, awl made thow emu. ....ions at last
namely, that they were lords paramount over temporal as passed by, and it was necessary th'at they should (Vase. which Lard Cornwallis thought it would be wise tee mike at
well as spiritual drain. There was not a single sovereign Ile spoke not aline against tae_ Roman catholic system, fire the time of the union. (Hear, hear.) Neu, sir, was this
of the Roman catholic church in whose life strung testimony he believed it was the tendency of all pried,. of every sect done partially ur keenly by these eminent lemon, : It was
of that was not to he found. One of these gentlemen to domineer over the people. (Hear, hear) He mooed my good fortune to be woeiated with the Duke. of
laid it down that any persons who denied his (the l'ope•e) in the view of Cardinal Bernho when he said " that he in- M ellingtun, Lord Lyndhurst, and Sir 11: .le.rt Peel
position to be that of lord temporal as well as spiritual terfered in the concerto of priests with reluctance, for he on the tied oeciteion on which he r. 'wool and
should he regarded as wild heads wed aa ia ie animals, a body found that they were guilty of all human weaknesses, and enjoyed pourer after the cone Wtioie lied been made,
of satyrs, or members of the devil.' (Laughter.) In a letter covered with dieholic el hypocrisy." (Hear, hear.) Did they ever heoit de. tu. Rive elbct, in Va., hoeulest,
written by Dr. Doyle to Lord Liverpool, that bishop stool The STRAKER, after having called on Sir J. °reliant, si'n'e, to the new policy slab einennetaneto Ilea minion, it
that it was obvious that these claims ache popes had tint their who rose to addroo the house, vaeateel the chair for a them to adopt? I forget who it was, but oe es one iai-
In.i4 on the gospel or the state of society, but were to be short time, and during his abeence consider:Mk ezeitement served, on a flower mew ion, that the tend...nee. of Sir
attributed to the zeal, ambition, ur avarice of the popes in was manifest throughout the house, in consomme, of the Robert Peel's government in matter', minting t.. reheieue
their days of power. (Hear, hear.) Now, a remarkable incident which took place while Mr. Drummond wie ail- liberty was all shown towards the Catholies. I know not
erase of that kind was to he foundiu Pope Boniface, writing dressing the hnuse. Mr. Grattan walked over toMr. whether the Probotant Mesenteric are so uneratattil as to
to Philip Le Bel, King of France., where he addre;siml him Drummond and made some observations. Mr. Drnrummed, forget mine efforts se hich were made on their Mar I.) that
" Bonifece to l'hilip Le Bel, greeting, etc. You, as our in his tuns, walked acrow the house and addressed Mr. eovenunent. I do not know whetter Ow lii -gat re'
subject in temporal as well as spiritual matters, Ito" To Grattan. During the conversation, which was very brief, Chum.' Act is forgotten-I am sure it .mast not
which Philip replied -" Philip, by the grace of God, King the Roman catholic members surrounded the hen, Member to be forget'. te-lieu it is mulatir4l.l. .me wootint
of France, to Bonitliee, presuming to be Pope, little or no for Surrey, and appeared much exited. On the return of of a spa eh which was made on ll''• " moist
greetinet ;-(" hear, hussar;' and laughter)--and it ran on, the Speaker, reading by my lamented friend the let, sir William
" Yeu are supremely foolish. Hereby know that we are Sir J. GRAHAM rose and Saill-Siet lam glad that a laualett. It was the mob:, se el let of parlionweitary .iratory
not inferior to Volt in temporals."
_(lien(, hear.) It had short pause has, taken place in the debate. (Hear, hear.) he ever made: it was his erotteet epoch, aid. -Oa, ! it was
been said that the rope had no armies or fleets; but did I hope that nothing will fall front me which may in any his lest. (Ile ar, hear.) But what, 1 aisle, was tle• .seeSuct
hon. gentlemen recollect that he worked by exconsinunica- way tend to disturb the gravity of the debate or the calm- of the Billie of Wellington and his colleagues: Did they
tam? Let them remember the terrors produced by a re- nem with which this great subject ought to he treated. hesitate to carry out the MdieY wide!? had leho h,'h Ihaed ?
fusal of the administration of secrameats-siteriuents (Hear, hear.) I dull feel hound to obey the elecisione of What was do. Bequests Act: That Mellott,: ere, tv clotriy
that were Aril: Mud by the Almighty, hot converted by the the chair in all matters of order. (Hear, hear) 1 did not a desire to consult the feeliegs of the RIIIII•Ill l'.11:11/Ilii, of
priests into instruments of execration. (Cries of " Hear, Wilk it passible, till within the hot half home that any- Delete las far a. WM eSillsißtillt with the eimilieenento of
I hear."). The priests teught as a elute, and one essentially thing could aggravate icy sorrow in came...mow,. of the re- the totablishea church iu that country, and t'. the iittwet
conducive to the advancement of religion,, that all should rival of these moo painful shoe... Ono on religious subjects, degree short of an endowment which Mie co:entry
yield obedience to the it superior, the l'ope, as their right in which religious feeliiies are mast &slay involved. might not have hsou willing to gist, mid which,
and only bunt; rend that brought him to a work lately (hear, hear.) But what his just mourned hint for exceeded at all events, the It Mt catholic hi. r ashy nod
publidwel by Cardinal Wiseman, an edition of the my mod auziote, expectation% and apprehension.. (Hear, clergy in Inland were net willing to acv: pd. (I hear.)
" Exercises of Loyola." In the 13th " exereise" they would hear.) A most areomplishol gentleman and whiter says But chit is not the whole ewe. What wies th • cealeet et*
I find it laid flown 'tent " what was seen to he white should he that he was so much heated in the, course of debate as CM Lord Lendhur,t, the Chawellor of that spouse ent 1 Act-
held to be' Meek if the church re eummawleel." (Much tirela to forget slat was due to a large hotly of g galemen ing with the full concurrence of the cabinet, :mil of my
I laughter, nod cries of " hear, hear.") Why that was ao in thee house where we all sit on terms of perfect equality. mild' friend bond Stanley, who was a mentOir of that
bad as ThelMeisellt (Renewed echo of " Hear, hear.") (('hore.) I shell not sully my lips -(the .r.)-ley reepeaa- gevernent at, did he nit iii the Roue,: of Lords prejaw the
I l'huits comtnittril murder us un net of worship; aud here ing the words which the hon. gentleman let fall'arom him, absolute repent of the statutes whieli proliihit. A the iWIO-
- men lied as an art of worship. Talk of the rt.:emulation of the both with regard to the individual honour and veracity of dustiest of hullo from tame? 1 admit that tee law we, left
negro, it was nothine compared with such abasement. immix:re of the Roams catholic religion, and still less- in alt anomalous mate Ile Komi-eel the en:::.: rowel of
(Laud cries of " 11,•ar, hear.") 'Elie neer° could not be what I shudder to think of-shall I sully my lips with what the statute. The Howe of Loris would not oeient to that,
convinced that sugar was not sweet and lime juice sour ; he has said of thAr female relations who devoted their lives thelgh it coesented to the repeal of the pee Ones, area
but here was white black, and black white, at lace. are. to the service of their Gil-who, from a feeling of eon- nose the etlonce, without the pcnaltieo still rsolains
(Cheers, "oh, oh," and laughter.) NOW, it had !well nest wience, Mooted thee:heti es to a life of seclusion, but, at in the stet tett Amok. One of the hon. act :s'o'n. for thu
unwisely said is that house, amongst other hon. !itemisers the same time, a life of chastity. The rides of under of the county of C•irk has referred to whet paw gl i . Isaat, o lon
by the noble member for Ayrshire., that the people did nut house may have been owervtd, but if Roman catholic the penelis et, in-err' II in the Relief At.t, whali it is now
care abut these thilego ineaMere are to sit here and take part in our debates, pmpwed to vetoed. Same very import int prise • .11110[90h
Lord TCART-IL never said any such thing. (" Hear, Hammes like this are to be repeated (loud cheer.), and place in committee in the House of lo w& wi•ii respect to
hear," and a letieh.) charges like these made, and mode in the tone and temper this clause, and, with the permissioer of the hoes, I Mould
' Mr. DRUMMOND-Well, it had been said in that which they have been made (renewed cheerO-I corium like to noall them to their moillection.The canoe imposing
house. (Ironicel laughter from the Irish membe re.) Ile imagine how the rule, of order and suds freedom of elehate a penalty of le it. Cr Cie iiesuniption of the title of any 'co
awned the people eared a great deal about it. The Eng- can he ineinteinea together. (Chem.) The limi, gentle. mettpitel by a prelate of the totablidil o church waspees
'BM were a law-loving people; they Yielded to the law ; man said that he would emerge thew ipe of tlo stela;... and pool by the bloke of Wellington. lie elated expreoelya
and he regretted very much they had been excited to the he treated ie as a subject of a religious chatse.ter. I shall Imo-vier, Lint lie did not tender it ac any seen-
' extent they were. (Much lan Mho, with ironical cheers, also endeavour to enlarge the scope of the dehAte, but in the rite whatever Mr the established rhumb. I will
, and Mime of "(hh, oh," from the Irish members.) lam no greater part of what I may edam. to the house, I shall read to you his words. He says:-" It is eserteMly
trader in Cuneilietioa 11211-(continued the hon. gentleman treat of it. as a political question. (Hear.) At the seine time, no security, hut it would give seller,. time to the
amid math !:twitter and clamour.) Both in principle and sir, I should think that I but ill die-hare:a my duty united church of England mid Inlaid." Now there
potence I hate your whig dominos and ridicule your Igo- cowid :ring the great extent of object tonged liy the ques- is it most remarkable cireunestenos ref.,m .1 to by the li .n.
tern:tames. (Laughter and inntivel cheers) The people tiou before us, if I did not, by some reef:story remark., member fur Cork which I thistle well worthy of attoo •
shall not be excited by me. (Here the hon. member Wail clear away the ground before I proceed to the milt of the It appears that in the year 1791 the Irish lec .I.sle
interrupted he shouts of laughter front the Irish benches.) great subject under discussion. (Hear, hear.) When I course preoholy similar to that whiai the poor.'
But, excited er not, they shall hear the truth. (Ironical addressed a few 011aereatiOni to the house on this subject Ole wish us 10 take. They pawed a sweeping prehilMeei •..
cheers.) Do you suppose your mandates from the Flaminian a former ocemion, I mole two admissions, and I au glad to assumption of titles in Inland. line lone did the sslalin
Rate will not he challenged? As yet we hoe not sworn repeat them now, as it wiU clear the ground tier me. to the on the statute hunk 1 Obeerve the toned. It was p mood
obedience to them. (laughter said clamour.) The inople brat place I said that I thought the language used by the in the year 1792, wlieu we w, re di!: at powo
are new willing to abide by the &Claim of the parties Pope in his reecript, and by Cardin el Wiseinan in his pas- with France. lit 1793 eircumstonces we re elieweed.
to whom they. look for et:Mance, as ales to the toed, was arroeant in the extreme-(heer, hear)-and that Louis the Sixteenth had been beheaded; war had aen
decision of this house. But, if the !roam of the it wan needlessly offensive to the feeling of this great pro- proclaimed. What tereurred then ? The right of votaig
party throw them over and refuse to give them efficient teetant community. (Hear, hear.) Igo farther, and my witegiveit to the Roman catholic freeholders. (Heim, Over.)
protection, they will take the law into their own hand.. that it was extremely difficult fur the remelts of the The act of 1792, prohibiting the atoumption to these till's,
(Increased ironical cheers and laughter from the Irish crown to pass by that offence, which so deeply wounded was bUni.Matily repealed. (Moo hear.) Th., Duke gees
members.) Your only way then to preserve the tome is the great majority of the protestant coumunity, in silence on to say, " 1 his was one of the instable' which e11'.., .1
to give them full and adeouata powers. (Laughter.) Do and contempt. (Hear, bear.) Ido think it may hose bow difficult it was to legislate on this subject at all."
' you think par cargoes of blinking statues, and bleeding been necessary, and it probably was necessary, in some (('heers.) The Duke is a man of foresight. The Bielve, ef
prtures of the Madonna, with the liquified blood of the way or ether to re-assert the great protestant principles Durham, a most learned divine and professor of diviiiie. el
Virgin Mona milk, will be tolerated here ? (Here which had been fixed at the Reformation, vindicated at Oxford, repudiated this clate,e altogether, oi)vino that it
a scene of tremendous uproar and confusion fel- the Revolution, confirmed by the Act of Settlement, and aflairded nu security, offend no advent:tee, and that tia the
I lowed, Mine dozens of members having sprung to their which were afterwards ratified on two memorable occa- part of the chortle he aid not desire it. Lori Chief Jen-
feet, uttering loud and clamorous exclamations, in which 'ions-by the Act of Union between Scotland and England, tiee Tentershin-the chief justice of England-mid the
the cries of e Chair " and " Order" were completely over- and the subsequent Act of Union between Great Britain clause would he inoperative ; and on that mound
whelmed. After a few minutes, order being motored), and Ireland. (clear, hear.) I certainly do not thick propelled a clause, making the acceptance of a tithe
Mr. O'II..IIIERTY craved the attention of the house, it would be, under any circumstances, wise in us to hy whomsoever offered a misdemeanor. The Duke a
and said-In go English House of Commies, an assemblage meet the thunders of the Vatican by the more formideble Wellington, ululating that this clause woad h' opera-
which I have always understood to hue composed of gentle- thuuehi rs of her Majesty's fleet, under the command of tive, resieted it on the ground that it would lie a etatittory
men ever anxious to vowel every portion of her Modesty's Admiral Parker, either in Civita Vecchia or An- recognition if the power of appointment on the part of the
subjects, no matter what their creed, from insult,-(a. hear, MIMI. (Hear, hear.) The question I now come Pope, to which he said he could not consent. Ile said.
hear," and eh eers)-I did espece that in such a house there to disco,: is of a more narrow description, and "Your lordships should look at your own proceedings. If
would be an expression of feeling at the use of to that question I shall endeavour to confine myself; you examine your own journals you will find places over
such language as that indulged in by the hon. it is, whether legislation is the right moat, of meeting and over again where these titles have been given to Mai-
gentleman. ("Hear, hear," from the Irish member.) But I I this aggression, and if so, is this the proper one for that viduals, that is to bishops of the Roman Catholic Church
must say that the language is as worthy the taste as it isthe s purpow ? (Hear, lour) But here I ant met by this difficulty. of Ireland ; it is immosible to deal with titles under such
judgment of the ball. gentleman who lewd it. (Hear, hear, When I say "this bill," I hardly know whether it is my circumstances ; all we can do is to declare that them
(nem Irish monhere, with loud Mee, of " chair " and duty to dhows, it in the shape in whieli I hold it in my titles are not to be assumed in future." Lord hlalmee-
" order " from the other parts of the home.) hand, or in that altered shape which the authors of bury, who had been a most strenuous opponent of nll eons
Mr. J. O'CONNELL-1 beg to move the adjournment the bill propose it shall ultimately assume. The cessions to the catholiee, made a speech on that °erasion,
of the house. (Cries of " Hear, hear," "No, no," and ' most proper rule would be perhaps to discuss it which was an exact summary of the argument with!' ho
"Chair," with great confusion.) as it is. And lam confirmed in that view, because I en- (Sir J. Graham) was urging. Ile said, " I think the es-
The SPE INEIt -In a question of so much delicacy as I Certain a doubt whether the preamhle of the bill, with only elusion of the Roman catholics from parlianient was a /Veld
relates to religion it would be well if hon. gentlemen ah- I the first clause attached to it will, not carry with it the pro- fide security, but you have &sailed umihot Mot,
dained from the use of expressions calculated to lead to ill visions of the second and third c ause which it is proposed and this clause about titles is a joke, and WOWS' thee a .i..kee
feeling and tempi. (Hear, hear.) to omit. (hear hear.) But that doubt has been Bubo:- for the attempt to enforce it will have the effect of
Mr. DISC MaIOND was again about to proceed, but was quently strengthened by the opinions quoted by the hon. producing all the irritation of an effective statute."
met with a perfect etorm of noises, amongst which cries of and learned member fur Dundalk, the °plutons of Mr. but does the ease stand here? The law has hem a dead.
" Adjourn" were most plainly distinguishable. Bothell and Mr. Bramhall, men of high reputation in their letter in Ireland for peen, er nearly so. Oh ar, hearl
The SPEAKER bolted hon. gentlemen would allow the profession. (Hear, hear.) These gentlemen have given it Dr. Maellale has somewhat omuly-1 had :!,oustetai
debate to proceed, as their deliberate opinion that the tint clause with the pre- I somewhat odentationely-(lwar, hear)--constaiitly trees-
An lion. MEMBER-We don't sit here to be insulted. amble would carry with it all the provisions of the second guessed the law ; and, as far as I am aware., that Mame
Os Hear, hoar," with renewed clamour and shouting.) and third clause which it is proposes] to exclude. (Hear.) ore/wino has passed unnoticed. But it did not escaos tho
The SPI•AKER should call on hon. members to support Now, that assertion was made before her Majesty's Solicitor attention of the legislature. Lord Lotto'', in his plait in
him in upholding the dignity of that house and the General addressed the house, It was not negatived, and the House of Lords, brought the matter under the notice of
freedom of di.eusaion. (General cries of " Hear, hear," that being the case, the position of the house is most re- Lord )lelbourne, when the latter was at the head of the
and
DhlstirtAMOND-It haul been said that Cardinal niataarad votingkablc
,inasm ugovernment
inasmuch as her Majesty's may be government, and called upon Lord Melbourne to Institute
against the second reading of the bill. legal proceedings. Lord Melbourne took time to deliberate,
Wieeman had taken Thomas .e Becket WI his model. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) My noble friend, the first and after that deliberiadon informed Lord Lorton that ho
Mr. J. O'CONNELL-I rise to order. (Loud cries of minister of the crown, has stated mom frankly that the was not prepared to institute smell prosecution. (Cheers
"Order" and "Chair.") As a reason for rising I wish to second and third ClaUfrei contain provisions which he did not from the Irish member.). And who was present when he
ssk you, sir. whether I was not in order in moving the wish to have carried into effect. Those clauses, he said, announced that determination 1 The Duke of Wel-
adamernment of the debate. 1," No, no.") An hon. gen- interfered with ordination and the collation to benefices in lington, the author of the only penalty which, as
demon has been reprimanded by you-(" no, no")-aud I Ireland • and also traversed bequests made to bishops and I think. injudiciously, had been introduced into
wish to ask whether in cowmen decency he ought not to priests by their predecessors, and as thew were effects which the Roman Catholic Relief Act, and could he urge the prime
I apologise .?-(" oh, oh," and " hear, hear")-whether his he had not contemplated he desired that they should be minister to proceed ? Quite the contrary, he joiewd in
1
I own good feelhos did not dictate to him that he ought to withdrawn. But if that view be sound, surely her Ma- giving his entire approbation of the prudence Is hell had
make some apology for expressions which I forbear now to jesty's government will feel that it is iinproxible for them, dictated the refusal of Lord Melbourne. (Cheers from the
' characterise. (Hear, hear.) actisee consistently with a sense of duty in reference to the Irish mendore.) Some hon. members may think these

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