The Express.
London, England, 1848-06-24 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 24, 1848.

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CALEDONIAN RAILWAY (BRANCH ACROSS
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n i 4 tot
MrCt
WARD vindicated the conduct of the board of Admi-
ratty, which had been impugned with regard to the
sanction
they gave to this bill, and said that they had done everything
which the interests of the navigation of the Clyde and of a
large commeroia) town like Glasgow required.
OF THE POLICE
Mr. FOSTER wished to know from the right hon. gentle-
C ElTAlhetb4SwTas Rt tern
Tri rend
third
. I,
Lc.
man the Secretary of State fur the Home Department, whe-
ther the men recently tried and convicted in connexion with
the disturbances in Bishop Bonner's-fields were committed
tor trial by the magistrates on their own discretiun arid autho-
rity, or by order and through the interference of the govira-
ment ?
Sir G. GREY said that he was glad the hon. gentleman
had given him an opportunity of s ating that there was
nothing whatever is the conduct of the police magistrate
in reference to the chartist disturbances at iii•hop Bonner's.
fields which called for the interference of the S,cretary of I
State or the government. He thought that the magi trate.
exercised a sound discretion, whore the cases were of an ag-
gravated character, in remanding such cues till further evi-
dence was produced,: with a view of sending the parties to
trial at the Central Criminal Court.
LANDS IMPROVENIENT (IRELAND) ACT—AL-
LEGED MISAPPROPRIATION OF MONEY
ADVANCED.
On the motion that the house at its rising should adjourn
to Monday,
Sir B HALL slid he wished to put some questions to the
government re save to a charge made against a noble lord a
member of the other house of parliament and ano-
ther gentleman, respecting a misapplication of money ad-
vanced ender the Lands Improvement (Ireland) Act often ses-
sion. The first CM he %mild call attention towns that of Mr.
John A. O'Neill, of BuDowen Castle, who, as appeared by a
Noce from Mr. Walker to Ms. Trevelyan, app'iled for
6,0001., to be expended in the improvement of his property,
the tenants on which were represented to be in a very
wretched condition. This application was sanrioned, and
an itutalmi nt of WOE. was given on the 6th Nov., 1647.
On the lath Dtc , six weeks atter he received the money, lic
wrote, saying that it would be impossible to commence the
works till the following spring, and asked not to be com-
pelled to commence the works till that season had arrived.
To this the board consented, but still there was no improve-
ment made in the property, and at last they called for the
6001. which had been advanced. Upon thin Mr. O'Neill,
with a good deal of modest assurance, wrote to the board,
asking for a second instalment of &Oa to enable him to com-
mence the works. This, of courme' was objected to by the
board, who threatened Mr. O'Neill with a prosecution for a
misappropriation of the money, but still ho found that
no reps had been taken by the government for that purpose.
The question he had to ask was whether any legal procetd-
inch had been commenced as regarded Mr. O'Neill, and
whether his works had been proe.eded with? As regarded
other parties, the charge agatnst them was that they had not
complied with the Duke of Wellington's clause, which en-
forced the payment of wages to labourers in the cures lit coin
of the realm. Lord De Freyne had received no less a sum
than 3,0001 from the Board of Works, but instead of acting
up to the spirit of the Set, he had paid hie labourers 10 per
cent. of the mom y in meld, and the remaining tel per cent.
he hail paid in tickets upon his agent, who carried the
amount to Lord de Freyne's rent accuuut against his
tenants. Inc insequence of this circumstance, the Board of
Works had refused to grant Lord De Frepas any more
money. A correspondence ensued, and Mr. F. French,
the brother of Lord Do Freyne, thereupon wrote to
London, declaring that if there was any Treasury
interference between the employer and the employsd,
Lord De Freyne's improvements would be altegctber
abandoned, the labourers discharged, and the re-
mainder of the grant would remain unemployed. 'Toe state
of the wretched people who ware receiving this sort of re-
ward for their labour was described in one of the report.,
and it appeared that they were wholly without seed, which
they had no money to purchase, and that many of the pooreet
were in almost a starring condition. This mode of treating
people profeuedly employed with money out of the public
treasury was really too bad. The noble lord not only im-
proved his land with the public money, but absolutely paid
his rent accounts. Ile wished to auk why no inquiry
had been instituted into this important matter, and whethi r
any further instalments would be paid to Lord Dv Fr. yne ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER raid that
with regard to Mr. O'Neill's case, whi h had been very tor.
reedy stated, as soon as the government found the motiey
had been misapplied, legal proceedings were iestituted to re-
cover the money. Upon that, Mr. O'Neill mad • arrange-
ments fore spending a sum equal to the first instalment, sod
theretore the legal process was suspended. He was not ab'e
to say, however, how far Air. O'Neill'a works had progressed.
As regarded the cue of Lord De Freyne, his hon. friend
behind him was better able to explain the facts than he was;
but he might say that the moment the facts became known,
Lord De Freyne was informed that the mode he had
adopted of paying the money was illegal, and that be
believed the further instalments would be paid as they
became due.
Mr. F. FRENCH, as a near connexion of the noble lord
whose name hod been mentioned, begged to say one weird.
What had been illegally done on his estate with regard to
the payment of his labourer. in kind, was entirely without
Lord De Freyne's knowle,aeis or cognisance, and the moment
he heard of the fact he sent over direttions to Ireland that
the provisions of the act were !oriel), to be complied with.
THE RUM DUTIES.
Sir L. O'BRIEN said perhaps this was the time for him
to renew the question he had put lot night, and which he
was sorry hail let to a party conflict, as his object in putting
it was merely a matter of business. Ile begged to ask
what was the intention of the government respe ting the
rum duties ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
during the day he hod an opportunity of laying the
matter before his colleagues, and he was glad to he ab
to give a reply to kis hen. friend's question. The principle
of the act of Lila wea that the West Indians should be put
upon a fair principle of equality with other spirit dealers.
Since that time rej resentetions had been mach which led
him to think that (qua' justice perhaps hail ac ircety been
done to them, and having considered tl c application from
the Irish members, he had now to state that he saw no suffi-
cient grounds in it for making any such change as that which
they suggested.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON asked what would he the course
of business nn Monday ?
Lord .1. RUSSELL said they would go en with the Sugar
Duties before proceeding with other business.
Mr. E. B. ROCHE asked when the Irish Registration
Bill would he prneeeded with ?
Sir W. SONIERVILLE said in the present state of public
business he could not fix a day, hut (as we understood) he
hoped to take up the sabject at an early opportunity.
Mr. STAFFORD asked whether any bill was to be
brought in on the subject of the quarter-acre claws ?
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said he was not prepared to
reply to that question.
CLAIMS ON SPAIN.
Mr. URQUHART called attention to a discrepancy in
sonic of the Spanish papers now upon the table. In the
cores sponderice before tl. em relating to Spanish affairs a re-
ference was made to certain unsatisfied claims on Slain on
account ot ammunitions, rOc., hut in an account subs, quently
leid upon the table the unsatisfied claims were stated to have
been satisfied. He should also be glad to know why the latter
paper had not been mimed ?
Viscount PALMERSTON said he would reply to then
questions on Monday.
WRIT FOR DERBY.
Sir J. PAK INGTON then moved : "That Mr. Speaker
do issue his warrant to the clerk of the crown to make nut a
new writ for electing two burgesses to serve in this present
parliament for the borough of Derby, in the room of the
Right lion. Edward Strutt and the lion. Edward Frederick
Leveaon Gower, whose (+ellen has been determined to be
void." The hon. member addressed a sew observations to
the house amid some confusion, urging that this was an ex-
ceedingly herd case, and that there was no prt cett nt fur the
further suspension of the writ.
Mr. lIUME expressed his regret flint from time to
time the house bet violated its pledge to suspend
writs until i, quiry had been instituted.
Sir J. TYRELL, as en old roember,wished to address a
ward or two to the hon. member for Montrose. Bef.re the
passing of the It, form Bill he remembered that the hon.
member ,or Montrose every night drew a long bill upon
futurity in the shape of prognostication* as to what purity
they should have throughout the country if the Hebron
Bill paned into a law. The hon. member occupied much of
the public attention, and much more of the time cf that
house, with that sort of ststement. Ile had continued ever
since to give moral lectures to the house upon all sorts of
questions, and upon none so much as upon questions of pub-
lic expenditure. But the hon. member for Montrose
had got a place for his son, almost a sinecure place, of 500/
' a year upon one of those useless commissions which the
hon. member made such a fuss about on all other occasions.
And there were other hon. gentlemen of tho hon. member's
clique who had in like manner got places for relatives, ss the
return he had moved for would show.
Mr. ELLICE begged to protest moat emphatically against
these personalities. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. P. BENNET, as a member of the Derby committee,
begged to remind the house that the committee had brought
bribery home in the clearest manner to the ten case., which,
out of the 166 cases of bribery allured, had alone been gone
into, the parties at that stage of the inquiry declining to pro-
ceed further. There was, however, such strong suspicion
attaching to the remaining 166 cues, that the committee had
made that report, recommending further inquiry, of which
the house was aware.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said tha hon. ban. the member
for EMI, had charged the government with creating a
u elen commission, and with having being guilty of what
was called a job, in appointing the son of the hon, member
for Montrose its scenery. Now, with reference to the com-
mission, as his right hon. friend had just observed, there
was especial need for close and scientific inquiry into the
whole system and management of the Mint, and this inquiry
could only be conducted by scientific and highly intelligent
persons, applying their whole attention to the subject in a
way which could scarcely be expected from an ordinary com-
mittee up stairs. Ati to the hon. member for Montrose, he
bed differed from that hon. gentleman on mane points, he
hod acted against him in that house quite as frequently as
wits him, out this he would say of the hon. gentlealan, that
no man ever sat in that Inoue who had br.,ught ti the
public stevice a purer or more entire di-int, r. stcdness—
(cheers from both Lida of the houses)—and this he would say

farther, that had the hoe. member's object, on the contrary, and of obt ining outer labouren. Some protection was un-
been • sordid and personal one, and bad he devoted to that deniably due to the West Indies, in order to enable them to
sinister purpose one tithe of the Indefatigable industry, compete with the foreign slave colonies. If that was not
the fearless energy, the powerful ability, that he had done they must abandon the West Indian blinds. In fact,
devoted to the service of the people, be could orders wen going out every day front merchants and West
long since have secured that object, as many men, India proprietors here to these cultivating their estates. The
of infinitely less claim, had secured it. (Hear, hear.) hon. member for Westbury had read • statement respecting
The hon. member, however, had acted upon other and far the wages of free labourers in the West Indies. In Guiana
different principles, and he had his great reward in the they had been reduced only 5 per cent. ; in Trinidad, he ad-
regent and esteem of all parties, alike within and without mitted, the reduction was one-balf ; and in other islands
that house. (Cheers.) (save Jamaica) the reduction was 25 per cent. But what
Mr. HUDSON concurred in the expression of respect was the amount of wages in Lee island of Trials
paid to the hon. member for Montrose, but thought it would dad ? Why, for a day of four or five hours
in better if members of the legielature were to avoid any only, the free labourers got Is. 3d. (Hear, hear.)
share in government patronage. What made the matter worse was that at this moment the
Mr C. ANSTEY said that the reason why the house had West Indian worked with a certainty of further reduction
rescinded its resolution respecting Horsham was the conduct in the price of his commodity. It had been said that the
pursued by the government with respect to Cheltenham. present distress was nut so much ettributable to the bill of
Mr HUN fZ weal suggest to the hon. baronet opposite 1846 as to the commercial distress promilieig generally over'
that had the Reform Bill been pureed in the shape originally the world. He differed from that opinion, seeing that the
proposed by Earl Grey, there might very probably bays been distress had acorn in the fare of an inereasel consumption
no cry since for further parliamentary reform. (Hear, hear.) to the amount of 30,000 tons annually, and also because it
lie should support the issue of the writ, since govern was immediately co existent with the iutreduction of slave-
meat seemed disposed to take no steps for prosecuting the grown auger into this country. But, in tact, the question
inquiry recommended by the committee. was entirely one of the supply of labour. limit our planters
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the government had assisted got • plentiful supply, and at a reasonable rate, it was %tee-
the hon. member for the Flint boroughs with the legal co- less to thi,.k of his contending with the foreigner.
operation of the Solicitor-General and of the Judge Advo- Mr. HAWES said he quite agreed with what bad fallen
cote, and he himself had done all he could in the way of from the right hon. member for Oxford Univerety on the
giving the hon. member opportunities for proceeding with previous evening as to the condition of the labouring pope-
has bill. There had been so much opposition to it, huwever, tuition of the West Indies being an important clement in
on the other side of the house, at every stage, that much considering this question. If the bill of 1846 bad tended te
delay had been occasioned, and there seemed the probability deteriorate that condition he (Mr. Hawes) should have
of much further delay before an inquiry into the alleged opposed it; but his firm belief was that stripping West Delia
bribery in the borough of Derby could take place. In tact, smote of all protection was the best way of insuring the wel-
if the house did not issue the writ until alter inquiry, there fare and happiness of the great mast of the population. He
could not trace the evils complained of by the hen. member
was every probability, considering the state of public
business and the period of the station, that the writ for Bristol to the bill of 1846, and therefore he felt hound to
would not issue at all until next session. Under these adhere to the policy it established, which was temporary
circumstances, he thought it would be unfair to withhold the protection to the colonies during a pe, eel of transition to
writ ally longer, bearing in mind, uhe did, that the issue of complete free trade, Why was it necessary now to modify
the writ now would in no way preclude that inquiry into that bill? Two clause of reasons might be given. In the
the seemed bribery which the committee had reeemmended• first place, the commercial distress prevailing through-
Mr. THORNELY called upon the house to sustain the out the empire had deprived the West Indians of a
decisions of it. committees. portion of the time which might be used in preparation
Sir It. PEEL adhered to the opinion he bad formerly ex- for tree Made. Ag tin, the Introduction of • superior
gelidity of foreign sugar which had not been anticipated had
pressed, that the government ought to have lest no time iu
taking some step or other for prosecuting deprived them of some of the indulgence which they bad
those inquiries
which the select committees had specially reported to be been promised. But there was another consideration, and
essential to the purposes of justice. (Hear, hear.) Had t-ie that was, that it was the concurrent opinion of all partite, that
government itself brought forward a measure for this object, the West Indies were in a state of great distress, and that,
one night's discussion, or less, would have effected the per- therefore, relief of some kind was absolutely necessary.
pose, and have saved the house many hewn, many evenings (Hear, hear.) In his opinion the pith of the government
he might say, that had since been lost in desultory debates offeied a prospect of the most substantial relief, and i, was
on the subject (Hear, hear.) It really appeared to him for the West Indians themselves to consider whether their
very manifest that, under the peculiar circumstances of the condition would be bettered by the conflict of parties and
case, with the demand for inquiry from so many quarters. opinions which its introduction had accessioned. Nov, the
the demand for further changes in that franchise, the demand an. member for Bristol had asserted that the West Indians
for an extension of the act of 1832, it really appeared had never been in such a state of distress as at the present
to hint that no time should have been lost in moment. If that were true all termer complaints must bane
proateuting an inquiry into the cases where corruption been mere cries of " wolf," while toe pre sent was the only
was cheeped. (Hear, beer) Here, in this borough of foundation in truth. lie would not do them the injustice
Derby, in the only 10 casesof alleged bribery proceeded with, to think so; he believed that then was some emaciation in
out of 166 indictments, all had been clearly brought h ime to former complaints, and he was prepared to show that in
it former times and on former occasions their complaints fir
the parte s and the committee tope-Ltd that they had strong
grounds fur the belief that had the inquiry gone on the same surpassed what was stated at the present time. In a report
result would have taken place in the other cases. That *in- of the Reuse of Assembly of Jamaica prepared in the year
quit) did not go on, simply because the parties seeing Oils 1804, it cow stated that although the abolition of the slave
result thought it advisable to withdraw. The question was, traele might he an effectual it was not the sole means by
whether the house, too, should withdraw from the inquiry— which the We at India islands mutt be ruined. '1 ho same
(hear,' hear)—or whether, until full inquiry had been object might he effected more gradually by encouraging the
made, course of justice did not require that the era cultivation of sugar in the East Indies. 'lnc report went on
s•ould he suspended. It was his decided opinion that it to state that every British merchaet holding secu-
should, and he should, therefore, oppo e the issue of the reties on real estates wee filing bills in chancery
writ. (Hear, hese.) to foreclose, although when he had obtained hi.
Sir It. I NULLS contended that it would be unjust to the decree he hesitated to enforce it, because in such case
1,600 eleaorsof Derby,whom conduct had not beeniumogned, he must undertake the plantation himself, which fatal
to disfranchise them until next session, or, pectoris, till next experience told him would be rain. Nobody, con-
parliament, because ten other electors had been pro-eta tamed the report, would lend money on estates; in fact,
guilty of corruption, and 166 others not proved, but sus- so great was the distress that the reporters feared
peetCd of it. that a faithful detail would appear like a frightful cerise-
Mr. AtiLIONBY said he should abstain from voting one to e. He defied any one to show such a state of d'u'ress
way or the other. from Lord Harris's deepatehes. Now all this had occurred
Mr. S. HERBERT asked why had not the hon. and before the first sugar bill, when Jamaica had a monopoly,
learned member himself vindicated the character of the and he defied any one to shim a similar state of things under
house by undertaking the task he reproached them for free trade. (Hear, hear.) He could shew that from 1760
leaving undone ? (•• Hear, hear," and a laugh.) Unlike the down to 1813 there had been a regular succession of coca
hon. member he should vote, and Lis nee would be against plaints of immediately impending ruin. if the quantity of
the issuing of the writ. sugar imported from the West Indies from the year 1831 to
Mr 11111011'f said that the blame of all the inconsistency 1841 and thence to 1847 were taken, a remarkable internee
of the house is these matters rested upon the government, might be drawn. And if they took the first ten years, it
whose vacillations had been such a. to have utterly confused woul I embrace a (period of slavery, then of
every one, and more especially that parry of lion. eft ntlemen apprenticesaip, and then of entirely free labour.
who habitually, without any very nice inquiry, voted as 'the avelege annual importation during that period was
government voted. 171,800 tons. Fur the following seven years, commencing
lord MAHON supported the issuing of the writ. with 1841, when the production of Jamaica was reduced to
Mr. V. SMITH denied that the present law of contra its lowest point since 1831, the average annual imponation
meted elections was satiate tory to the people, who merely was 127,323 tons; the entire difference tor the whole of the
regarded the honest decisions protmuneed by the emmittees West Indies being only 44,477 tons. That was the amount
this session in the light of • eerie, of tortun its recidents, not of the whole annual decrease. But when it was le collected
as the result of a sound system. It was essential to render that the duties between the Wen India and E tat India sugar
election tribunals cheaper of access, speedier in their pro- were equalised, and that there was an enormous increase of
ceedinge, and to inspire greater cuntidence in their decisions. sugar in Mauritius, was it to be wondered that some dimi-
Mr. COBDEN ( who was met like nearly all the previous notion should have taken place. If be took the four or fire
speakers with loud cries of " divide, elivide ") said it was years preceding the present, ho found no decrease, but an
really very difficult to get in • word. If you rose enormous increase. In 1844 tho production was '2,453,000
to speak at a quarter to seven you were put cwt. • in 1815, 2,8.57,000 cwt. ; in 1816, 2,152,000 cwt. ;
down by members who wanted to dine ; if you rose to and in 1817, 3,022,000 cwt. This did not show any inde &-
speak at 10 you wer • put down by memb n who had dined. lion of an abandonment of the mativetion of sugar. Looking
( Laughter.) Ile considered that while the noble premie r to Jamaica alone, the average production of the three years,
eught, in accordance with the prineMie he had so emphati- 1840, 1811, and 1842, was 608,750 cwt., whilst the average of
rally enuncieted, to have prevented, by his active efforts, the three subsequent years was 644,145 cwt., and the average
the issuing of the writ to Horsham—since certain it was that, for the two years 1846 and 1847 was 662,000 cwt. ;so that
aid Mby the right hon.me meet tor Tamworth, he could do as he there was an increase of importatiou for the whole
pleamd in that house—yet that the noble lord wee not wholly pee hid from the diminution of the duties. He was there.
to blame in the matter, for, manifestly, progress had been tore disposed to look to a different cause for the distress
delayed by the knot of gentlemen who sat on the lower of the West Indies than the diminution of protection.
ranges of benches opposite. Whatever the house might do Could it be shown that protection had done the least good i
in the matter, the case would be regarded out of doors on a He challenged any one to show him any unbroken prosperity
very distinct and comprehensive basis. All these things, in the \Vest India colonies for any period of long continu-
viewed by the people as the outward and visible sign of anee. (Hear, hear) And if he concurred in the protection
inward corruption, were weighed accordingly. lie held in his now proposed, it was rather out of deference to the feelings
hand a petition signed ey a most respectable person, who of others than from any hope in his own mind that the West
preyed that the borough of St. Alban's might be placed in India planters would derive any benefit from it. (lieu.)
schedule A of the hon, member for Flints bill. Mr. But it they were to have protection as between this country
Sturt, the pttitioner, distinctly stated, that of the 400 ma the colonies, how were they to adjust the protection
and odd persons who voted, there were riot 50 who had between colony and colony, because the cost of production
not t ken a bribe. lle (Mr. Cobden) believed that the wasnot the same in all thecolonies ? Barbedoes and Antigua,
majurty of the borough members returned to that house lead for instance, could produce cheaper than the others. The pro-
been returned tither by bribery and corruption or by patron• tection to one colony, then, would he a bounty to the other,
age. Nu one could doubt that the house was illdiffirt nt :o cur. -and chat was the view of the question taken by Me. Mar-
ruptiou. The seats vacated by the recent decisions of the elec- riott, as appeared from his evidence before the committee.
time committees ought to have been transferred to large eon (Hear, hear.) Thee, were they to tax the labourers of this
atituencies, such as Kensington, Staleybridge, sad Hensley. country for, as he would show, the moat improvident and
Mr. REP lON, as one of the members for St. Alban's, de- extravagant management of estates that ever was known ?
min in the most solemn manner the imputation of the hon. I° Hear, hear," from Mr. Bernal.) He would prove that
member far the West Riding. to the bon. member for Rochester on the most unquestion-
' Mr. NEWDECIATE said he should divide in favour of the able authority. The truth must be told. (Cheers.) And
issue of the writ. the people of this country neust know it. This teed' 10s. was
Mr. HORSMAN protested against the inconsistency clis• not to help the labouring population of the West Indies,
played by the house, which would threw discredit up in its but to keep up the estates in the West Indies, no matter how
proceedings in cases of corruption at elections. lie should they were managed, and whatever was the cost of product
vote against the issue of the writ. tion. (Hear, hear.) Another ground put forward as a jus-
Lord GALWAY said that the hon. member for the West tifieation for protection, was that of high wages. This was
Riding had unjustly attacked small boroughs, of one if the first time he ever heard such an argument put forward.
which he was a representative. The hon. member himself It was well known that the higher the wages the cheaper
only owed his election for the West Riding to the creation of the production, and for this reason, that high weges were
faggot votes. a consequence of skilled labour, and large production of
Col. SIBTUORP said that he had so little confident.* skilled labour. The great fault of the West India planters
in the hon. member opposite, as to be determined, if he told was, that they relied too much en brute labour, and neg.
him to go in one direction, to go in the opposite one. (A bested the aid of science, skill, and agricultural improvement.
laugh.) (Hear, hear.) In Porto Rico according to Consul Craw-
The house divided—For issue of the writ "97 lord, the wages were Is. 6d. ael'ay, and in Santa Cruz 18.8 d ,
Against it
The writ is consequently still suepend«h in the British West Indies; and yet those islands were
SUGAR DUIIES—ADJOURNED DEBATE. in a flourishing condition. lie believed that if wages
Sir J. FAKING lON rose to offer an explanation, in were higher in the West India colonies, that the planters
consequence of a misrepresentation by the bon. member for would produce cheaper than they now did. It was said
Westbury of a statement made by hi con a former evening that the sugar bill of 1846 ruined the Mauritius. Now he
relative to the cost of the production of sugar in the slave cola would prove from thee mouths of Mauritius merchants
lees of Cubs, Brazil., and Porto Rico. The hon. member themselves, that this was not so, because, in 1846 itself,
had accused him of making a very grave error, and as the before the bill of that yeas could have any effsct, they mad'
question of compsrative coat of production was at the very representations to the government that, with the largest sup-
root of the West India claims, he begged leave to make a few ply of labour at the cheapest rate that was ever known, they
observations in defence of his termer statement, which he was were ruined. (The hon. gent. here road a statement made
prepared to assert was correct in all its parts, whil't that by the merchants of Mauritius to the governor, in which
made by the hon. member for Westbury was err ineous to they said that Mauritius was ruined, that only the most
the extent of the difference between them; and he must ex- favourably situated estates would yield a profit over the
pre as his belief that the hon. member had not given careful expenditure, and that even these leanly yielded • moderate
attention to the evidence pe inted in the \Vest Indian coin interest on the capital inn sted, notwithstanding the
mittee report, notwithstanding he had be entirely relied extent of the crop and the high prices which existed.)
on it. This was in May, 1846. (Loud cries of "hear, bear.")
The SPEAKER called the hon. baronet to order. la September, 1847, the governor said that the
Sir J. I'AKINGTON.—The hon. member was aware cendition of Mauritius was an enigma to him
that the figures which lie bad given as the net cost produc- and a melancholy one. Two years ago the mete
tion of sugar in the three slave colonies named was the re- chants told him that if they got a supply of
suit atter the value of the runs and molaser, and the interest cheap labour, and could raise 100,000,00011 n., they would not
of meney with some other inevitable charges, had been do- dread the competition of slave labour. They had the cheapest
ducted. The hon. member had omitted to take those items supply of labour that was ever known, and their produce
into his estimate, There was also a deduct on made by hint wan more than they expected, and set they said they were
(Sir J. Pakilegton) of Is. sd. for the suaerior value of ruined by the bill of 1846. (Hear. hear.) ilr. Hunter, one
elated sugars above Muscovedoes, the auger' from Cuba and of the moat eminent dealers of the Mauritius. said that
Brazils being all clued. The same authorities lead fur coolie labour was higher than slave labour—that the total
nished both himself and the hon. member fur Westbury, cost of a cooly, including rations, was 191., whilst the cost of
with the data which they had respective.y offered to the a slave was only 41. The Mauritius merchants in London
house, the only difference being in the deductions hid statements before the committee, which showed that the
which' he had made. The hon. baronet then referred to the produce of a cooly was two tons and 3 sths that reduced
West India Committee blue-boolc, and cited the cost of sugar the cost of sugar to 7s. Bd. per cwt. Now the price of
at Porto Rico, as stated by the consul there, in exemplifies- a slave in Cuba was 1001., and the interest of money there
non of his mode of estimating the relative cost of production. was 12 per cent. Making a fair allowance for the cost of
'the consul stated the gross cost to be 16s. sd. per cwt.; wear ana tare, and loss, and for the difference in the rations,
from this he had deducted 4s. 6d. for interest of money, &c., that would make the cost of a slave 181. lye. •, and be pee-
ls. for molasses, which left 10s. Ild., and from this he de- ducted, according to the evidence laid before the committee,
ducted Is. sd. as the difference between the value of clayed three tons of sugar, which reduced the cost in
and muscovadoes. The mean coot of all the slave colonies Cuba to 6s. Ofd. per cwt. That made • difference
mews was, therefore, according to his mode of estimating of Is. Bd. in the cost of labour alone. But was there
the net value, 6s. 10(d., as he had before stated. It was he, anything in that difference to justify • protection of 10s. for
therefore, who had made the correct statement, and that which the people of this country were to pay. (Hear, hear.)
offered by the bon. member was quite erroneous. , They had no right to call on the British public to pay for
Mr. WILSON said that he was informed, and he believed I protection till every improvement had been introduced into
correctly, that in the preparation of clued sugars neither I the West Indies, and till they reduced the cost of production
rum nor molasses were produced. At the same time he I to the lowest amount. (Hear, hear.) He would show the
must admit that if the hon. baronet had accompanied his West India planters that they were a wasteful set of menu-
figures with the explanation which he had now given he facturers—that they did not produce so largely or manufac-
should not have said what he did. ture so economically as they ought. (Hear, hear.) And
Sir J. PAKINOTON said that he did make the ex- ' they ought to do both before they came to ask for protection
planation at the time, but his remarks were not reported. from the people of this country. (Hear, hear.) In respect
Mr. WILSON was quite satisfied on that meth. With to Guiana, Dr. Shears says that, by improved methods of
respect to the difference in value between Hayed and Musco- cultivation, the produce of Guiana might be increased 2-5 per
vado sagars that was taken into account in the differential i cent. Lord Harris says that a large increase might take place
estimate of cost. He repeated, had he seen the statement of in Trinidad under • better system. Mr. Ray says : " The
the hon. baronet in print, he should not have reviewed hie hoe is still in general use, and it is with reluctance that the
figures. plough is used." The agents adopted an expensive
Mr. P. MILES said that the hon. member ought to have mode of supplying their stock of cattle. Many of
exercised more caution before he ventured to tax the hon. the local journals bore testimony of the same kind ;
baronet with error. He was disposed to go further than the for let it not be supposed that public opinion in the colonies
right hon. gentleman who stated last night (Mr. W. Glad- was all on the side of protection. It bad been said
stelae), that the West Indians ought to have some relief that the Colonial-office disallowed laws which the colonial
given to them, because they had hail none since the emanci- legislatures passed. He challenged gentlemen opposite to
pation was granted. He (elr. P. Miles) thought that when state one single good law which had been elm :lowed by the
the slave labour was taken away and the produce thereby I Secretary of State. Since 1843 the celonill assemblies had
reduced one halt, some means ought to have full liberty to pass any
tan wlaws they °easedinlia-atiou, . But hat utteape had teen
n
been offereed the planters of co :trolling the frctcluegroa with :egret[ and ithwa th

were made, between 1835 and 1840, to bring beck the ttegre
who had escaped from the lash to the condition of a ter!, Ay
means of the ingenuity of the law. The hon. gentleram
here quoted several um passed by the legislature of Bt.
Vincent's, Bubadota, a d other islands, which subjected dia
tummies to imprisonment and the treadmill for slight offences.
As to squatting, the evidence showed that very little of it
existed is the West I .dia Islands. With reference to tin*.
tion he wished to know what the West India gentlemen me.
cifically meant by their cry for more labour.
they mean that this supply of labour was to be at the el.
Prose of the government at home ? He advised the Wan
India planters to concentrate their cultivation where twee.
nary, rather than to diffuse it vaguely over lame tracts. Ela
did not, however, be.ieve there was to much additiord
labour wanted se was represented, but rather a better, ram
skilful, and cheaper method of cultivation. Mauritius wax
an example in point that abundance of labour was not the
one thins needful, fur Mauritius since 1813 had received
74,000 labourer, yet Mauritius was in a vete of deep distress.
The real cause of that distress was user-,peculation, the in.
dulgence on the part of the planters in hiebly exsgeerated
expectations. There bad been one retnarkabie omission in
the whole discussion on the subject—not a cord had beer,
heard from gentlemen opposite as to the interests of the
consumers; yet surely the wants of the pe iple hire were
not to be altogether neglected for the sake of a particular
class in sue colonies. In the slave-trade the only way n
which it could i ffectually be put an end to would be the red.
dering free labour cheaper than slave labour, and he he.
lieved this to be in the hands of the Wi at India 'denten
themselves, if they would but heartily adopt aid cry out
the eternal principles of free trade, alike applicable to then
as to all other chum s of the commercial world.

T

Lord G. BENTINCK said that his hon. friend the member
for Droitwich had so fully given the history of the committee
over which he bad bad the honour to prelate that be need
not occupy the house at any length on that portion of the
subject. The Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Bethune:
had in his speech taken everything fir granted, Lush as
the future production of our colonial sugar and our colonial
rum, and also as to the revenue to be thence derived ; but
facts alone must be regarded, and the facts in ne
gree bore out the right boo. tirade baruoet'a
none. Nothing c .uld be so re ex ict !hen the in
quiries which had been mule by the etimmittee.
in the view to those a stimates upon which they had founded
their recommendationeto parliament ; and what bad been the
result of these calculations? Why, this: that upon tee
whole period of six teen, ending in 18.31, there would be
reveuue of 1,338,5001. arising from the phi:: Proposed by the
committee, more than wculd be realised by the plan pre.
posed by the government. the prop:eel of the committee
was to reduce the duty en colonial sugar, and though
mane a portion of this benefit would go to our colonial pleat.
err, a considerable. part of the revenue would then be
levied out of the diminished profits of the slave owner, a
result which every man impressed with a hatred of
slavery must hail wit'i gratification. There could be
no clearer proof of the accuracy of tne calculation
upon which the committee proceeded than the tut that
when it was gaown out of doors that the committee
proposed to have a duty of 10s. on coloniel sugar, and to
recent the duty of 20s. ou foreign sugar, there was at once a
fall of Is Gd. per cwt on colonial, and a rise of Is. W. on
foreign sugars in our markets, so that the relief to the West
Indies would be screwed out of the pockets of the dam
holder. The hon. Under-Secretary fur the Colonies talked
of the committee having omitted to care fi•r the consumer;
whereas the committee had shown thereseln s the true
friends of the poor men here—the real supporters of cheap
prices in sugar, by proposing those measures which would
maintain the competition of colonial with foreign slave-
grown sugar. (Hear.) The hoe. Under Secretary (hilted
that the act of 1846 had bad anything to do with the ruin of
the Mauritius, and had a memnnal cr something of the kind
to show that, in 1846, Mauritius was in deep distre a. Why,
only in July of list year the hon. ecolleman himself
made a grand point by citing Mauritius as the seat of high
pprraaperity. (Hear, h. or) And what said the despatch of
Governor Sir Win. Gomm of the 6th March, 1847 ? Why,
that the balance of colonial revenue in the /daunt*
ever expenditure was, in 1841, 16,8181, aad in 1816 had
risen to 50,9891. •, and f,r the then current year Sir Willie*
had est mated the arena value of the colonial exports over in-
poets at 479,4151. But this was on a calculation of 271, mem
being reeltsed by the in, reliant, making an aggregate profit of
600,0001. ; whereas, in con tquence of the depriciotion in the
value of sugar occisiened by the introduction of freelabeur
sugar, ander the act of 1846, instead of a profit of 600,0001.,
there was a loss of 600,0001., and half as much more. (Bin,
hear.) If the committee were cheer :able with any °mimics
at all from its recommeedations, that otnissioe had rektica
to the East Lidice and Ceylon, and was wholly attribatable
to the influence of the government, which, by the medium
of the hon. member for Westbury, had entirely defeated his
(Lord G. Ber.tinck's) constant exertions, and those of his
friends in the committee, to give due weight to the claims ei
these Eastern possessions. (Rear, hear.) In Cube, while
the interest of the English planters in the West ladies was
being utterly dernelished—inCuba the pro fuction of sugar bad
increased from 80,000 tons, in 1831, to 210,000 tons last use.
The member for Westbury hod endeavoured to show that
the West Indies were not in that distressed state which
had been act forth on that(the opposition) side of the house.
He went into a long history of the complaints made at sari-
ous times by the British colonists. What class was there
in this cou step which had not from time to time complained
of grievance and distress ? The member for Westbury, so
oue argument in support of his position, argued that is
computing the losses of the \Vest 'coiling they ought to cal-
culate as if they had realited all tho sager watch rumbled
unsold. This wee, indeed, a new system of arithmetic
Gentlemen sitting in their libraries calculited as if all the
property of the West Indies could at any time be realised at
any price. Only a few years ago the property of the WM
Indies was ealsuiated at one hundred and thirty millions
sterling. What was its value now ? (He it, hear)
The price realised by West India and Mauritius sugars barely
equalled the cost of production. But he was not going te
argue the question on free-trade grounds, for the case toss an
exceptional one, and did not admit of being so treated. The
facts were quite different from those which had characterised
the free-trade debates. When the legislature took sway the
slaves from the West India planters, it did so with a dieting i
and well understood engagement that they were to be pro.
tected in their own market against slave strewn sugar of
other colonies. And let hon. memhers and °elate lords talk ..
as they would of the apathy of the West India planters, that
apathy had never hindered them from prnfitable cultivation
under the old system of slave 1 shour, said subsequent to
emancipation of protector. If, therefore, the planters in
the British colonies were deprived, first, of their machines
by which their cultivation was carried on, and afterwards of
the protection to which they were entitled in consequence of
emancipation, had they not a right ti complain of the bed
faith of the government and the legislature by which those
acts of arbitrary injustice were sarctioned and perpetrated?
Tke legislature had treated the unhappy planters worse than
Pharaoh did the children of Israel. obey called upon the*
to make bricks without straw, and then merited them by
saying, "Ye are idle, ye are idle." Far better hail it been
for them to have had Egyptiau twkmasters than to live
under such a got emment as that of the noble lord. (Laughter
and cheers.) But the government was going to grant half a
million of money in order to encoura:e and carry out a plea
of emigration of labourers to the West, Indies under their
immediate superintendence and control. And this was to be
the great boon that the West India planters were to receive.
He could show the house, by the testimonies of Lord Harris
and Governor Light, in what condition the negroes arrived
in the West Indies when imparted into those islands for the
purpose of becaming labourer., and then the house would be
,in a condition to judge of the value of such free labour. Bat
there was another csusideration to be taken into
account in dealing with the question of immigration
of Afrie in labi.urets by eovernment agency, and that was,
the expense attending the operation. He held in his hand
a statement of the result id oue of these experiments,
which be would shortly derail to the house. The govern-
ment agents chartered a ship called the Bangalore to proceed
to Sierra Leone, in order to receive a certain stipulated
number of liberated Africans, and to convey them to Trill
dad. The price paid for each African was 7;1. ; and it was a
condition of the charter pasty that a certain number was
guaranteed at this price, and that whether they were eta-
basked or not the government paid the lull price for the
stipulated number. A suroeon and a superintendent were
likewise provided at the expense of the government. The
Bangalore expected to have conveyed 225 or 226 liberated
Africans from Sierra Loono to Trinidad; but after
visiting all the settlements on the coast, and waiting
the time named in the charter, the ship sailed, and
he had the certifies. e of her arrival at Trinidad with one
liberated African on board. (Cheers, and laughter.) And
this was the result of one of the first great stops to be taken
by the government in order to benefit the We t Indians, aid
1 r which the legislature wrs call• d upon to advance half
million of money. The cost of transporting this one Der,
with his suite of surgical attendant and inspector, was up-
wards of 7001., and for the erne money a geveruor-geneml
and his suite might be conveyed to the East Indies. (Gm*
I mgliter, and cheers.) And with such a specimen of the
activity of and intelligence of Bari Grey and the hen mese
her opposite, the West Indians were to be tell they
were apathetic and devoid of understandin r. (" Hem,'
and cheers.) The complaint which he made wr•
that the truth was suppressed in the colonial department, acid
that the information that was received the re was not fairly
laid betore the house. (" Oh," and " hear.") The hon.
member opposite (Mr. B. Hawes) had made an explanation
the other night, which he had not the good throne to hear,
of the accident which had occurred relative to the deoptch
of Governor Grey, dated the 27th of March. He had told
the house that it was the intention of Earl Grey and of his-
self to send that despatch to the commi tee at the time it
arrived. He admitted that the date of its receipt at the
Colonial-office was the 27th of March, and unless hens
misrepresented tne hon. Colonial Under Secretary stated,
that on the same day the despatch reached laie
hands, with a minute on it to this effect
" This is a copy of the dew tee fur which the committee oh Welt
India distress have sake&Nye had a copy of the document which
wY
required in the votes of the Howe of Amenably. It was to be yet to
the committee today. Would it not be better to send instead oral
ot this despatch, which is important, with the report and evidence
which we have got now for the first time? There are two 0004.
And so it is desirable to send it tmeay." That reached y
oubands
at
from the Secretary of State with the words, I agree with y t
this despatch ought to be given at Use same time with the report 1.,.
evidence to which it refers." He (Mr. Halves, addid, "I agree,
and en the 30th of March his noble friend matte a =Hat {CO thi,egte•
'chi. may be laid before the committee an suggested."
(" Hear, hear," from Mr. B. Hawes.) So that it appeared a
discussion on that very despatch had taken place between the
hon. member and the noble earl, tint on ?starch 27 and then
on March 30. (Hear, hear, again.) The hon. Under
Secretary cheered. Did he mean to deny the fact !mth
The house would presently judge of the on,
value of the al
cheers of the hon. member. (Cheers te. sin.) The Lon.
Under Secretary, having countersigued the minute of the
28th of March, made by Earl Grey on the deepatch, must
have heel possession of it at that time, and have been teem-
:hat of Be nouveau. Bat lit Yin (leaed G. Bentibe%.) act*

WWI

to the evidence given by tie hon. Under Secretary be.
for. the West Lelia Committee, lie did no: see
do right hon. gentleman the member for the University of
emobrarge in her place, but the house would bear in mind
"bet et-veered on a former eveninia when, in answer to an
opeal fres the hon. anderueretary, his right hon. Mend
wield the recollection of the hon. gentleman with respect
to the evidence given liy him beton" the West Indian cum-
asides ; end he must also remind the house of the import-
ance attached both by Earl Grey and the hon. under-seer.•
tare to the dethatch of Sir C. Grey. Mr. Goulburn asked
•the hen. member (Mr. Hawn) whether I. could account to
the committee tor the mastics of any accounts from the
governor of Jacanice aimilar to those received (rim the
other colonies ? The enswer given by Mr. Hawes was,
I imagine you allude to the Blue Book ? " But that
was not what Mr. Goulburn meant. lie repeated
that he asked if there were no accounts from the
Governor of Jamaica, and the hon. under secretary
cut sheet the question by say ing " the tie accounts are gene.
rslfy e imprised in the minuet report eallel the \Vest India
Blue Bo Bat Mr. Goulburn was uot to be put aside
woo his purpose by the dexterous under-secretary, end he
repeated his quemien, " the Governer of Jamaica
write dispatches respecting hat island, independentle of the
annual Miti menu contained in the Blue Book ?" And
what answer did the witneaeehe him sin 'et-secretary, make
to this question? Ile bagged the house to mark it. "I am
pot awere," said the len.. geetlernan, "of any despatch
which has been withheld mom the comma eee." (Immense
cheers and counter eater:.) Now if the minute which the
hon. ureder-secretary had read was not written after his evi-
dence was given to the committee—(oh, oh.),—what must
the house Oda of the mernery .4 the non. under-sevetary ?
(Hear, hear.) On the 27th of March the despatch was an
important one; but on the sth of April, nine days after-
wards, the hon. under-secretary knew of no important des.
int& which had not been already leid before the committee.
Mr. B. HAWES It. ed on
Ltrd G. BENTINCK would read on, and he would
show how the hon. member had held the governor of Ja-
maica up to the indignation of the people of Jamaica and the
West indium Community, for not having made a representa-
tion of the r. al Mete f that island, whilst the desuatch
wherein be did to was withheld from the committee, and
thena
sulmequenmct o the hon. ieb, r plume hien& if he could.
In n. her, tic hoe. g, ntl man attributed the
receipt if na iiap!irtarst di patch to the tact of the governor
bevieg only been in the heal d a very short time. He then
said there was a despatch, and thet the committee should
have vthatever the Caned offiee was in poveseion of. The
despatch, when it did appear, was found wbolly to refer to
the agriculture of the island, and would have come in the
very nick of time to enable the committee to decide a very
importent point—the degree end esoteric of !initiation that
ought to be afforded to tse ',asinine. That despatch con-
cluded whit the iin;mrtant menage: " A permanent gazette
price of leas than 3Us. per cwt. tor West India muscovado,
I firmly believe will eau e the greater portion of the sugar
eultiva ion of this Wand to be abandoned ; aid it
I were to be called upon for a recommendation
founde it upon the most comprehensive and paint
taking review of the whole subject which I am cepable to
take, it would be that the euti a on British mumovedos
should be brought towaras the limit of a penny per p nand,
and those on foreign to twopence.' (Hear, hear.) This ,
was the very intliernetien which the committee needed to
guide them ; and their recommendation had been nearly the
same as this of the gavel nee general. Ile would now ask
the right hon. gentleinan the Preadmit of the Board of
Trade, whether he had not sec's or been aware of that
despetch being receio el, behme it was laid before the house.
Mr. LABOUCHERE—I have no objection to answer the
question of the noble 1 ird. I certainly have not seen the
despatch. (Cheers.)
Lord O. BENTINCK pr ceded to read some extracts
from the Jamaica newspapers, conjecturing that some de-
'patches had been kept back; and said that since the cele
burled days of " gthembegism " and Majocchio with his
" non me rieordo," there had never been such a
notorious instance ashen memory as that displayed by the
hen. gentleman the Undi r-Sierethre to the Colonies.
(Hear, hear.) On the Sib of May, a report was laid before
the v mini tee from Mr. Stipendiary Strutt ; this report had
been accempaniid by a despatch from Governor Light, but
that deep item the es:nominee never new. Mr. Suutt recom-
mended the introduction of new machinery, admitted that
some proprietors might he too poor to purchase the
machines, but blamed them for their apathy, and said the
mode of menufacturime sugar ie Berbice was the same as it
was thirty years ago. But why was the despatch of Go-
vern, r Li :ht held b irks watch gave 4 very diet rent account
of the state of aft irs, while that of the stipendiary was laid
beforethe committee ? ( timer, hear.) It hal Men repeat-
edly urged, that the waut of evident promietere was the
cause of the colonial distr ra. This eraument had been the
maiaatay of Earl Grey in the col cial office. By the name
arrival which brou:ht Governer Light's deep itch, that of
the 2 Ids April, contained a letter from certain of the
coloniae, denying that there woo any foundation in fact for
the suoemition of his lerilship, that the proprietors of
West India estates were to a levee extent non-resident.
Govern, r Lord Hera., in a drepatch of the sth of May
said that the pe a:tem of the colony was moat deplorable,
that bankruptcy and ineolveney ware steering them in the
face, and that bold and immediate measures were demanded
—adding that the question was whether the cultivation
should he allowed to cease, and the estate. to go to ruin, or
such assistance Minded as would en ible the cultivation to be
continued. Suet wee then language that had been key' hack
from the committee. But he went further' and said that
under the present grievous circuinstantee of the colony it
would only be politic on the part of the mother country to
show some sympethy towards it as early as possible. He
(Lord G. Bentinck) hoped that the noble lord at the
head of the government would mike tome satisfac-
tory answer on the sehj,ct. Nothine was ss npug•
nant to the feelings of the British people as 0
packed jury ; and he complained that there had
been a packed jury in tnis case ; that wituesses who would
have given evidence in favour of the colonies were keptback,
and those who toll sealant teem hreuelit forward. In .l-
l he had 01.1 v a',commend the noble lord at the
head of the colonial 'department to atend to the opinions of
a whig statesman, who said that a refined policy had ever
been the parent of confusion and ever would be—that pain,
honest ietentionavnich could as easily be discovered as fraud
would be detected at last, was the beet that could be pur-
sued. (Cheers.)
Mr. G. THOMPSON having moved the adjournment of
the debate (on the uegesrion of Lord J. Rusezhe),
Lord J. RUSSELL said he did not wish to address the
house on the question at an late an hour, but would avail
himself of the motion of adjournment to defend his noble
colleague from the charge made against him by the noble
lord opposite. There was certainly nothing in the character
of his noble frien I, public er private, to justify the noble
lord in charging him with fraud. He defied the noble lord
to say that th re was, or that any one would be justified in
raging the snghtest stain upon his integrity. Upon what
did the noble lord found his accusation ? Upon the proceed-
ing which took place it reference to a despatch which arrived
on the 27th of March, and which despatch had been dealt
with in the ordinary course, and, amenity, re to the established
practice, had first been sent to a clerk of the particular
office to which it belonged. That officer marked
that it was important, and that it ought to
be laid before the committee. On the same day
his hon. friend (Mr. Hawes) assented to that proposal, and
on the 30th of March Lied Grey made a minute that it was
to be laid before the committee. Oa the sth of April his
hon. friend, when examined before the committee, said he
was not aware of any despatch of any importance having
been withheld,—suppesing at the moment that the de-patch
in queetion either was then before the committee, or that it
would be ltd be the committee. (Hear, hear.) The
noble lord, theriebre, ST:9 act justified in saying that hie
(Lord J. Ruseell'e) nehle friend (Lord Grey) wishes to cen•
ceal or suppress coy despatch or withhold it from the com-
mittee. If c 'meeker nt were his object he would have
withheld it from that house. But such mean frauds—such
dishonourable practices—veers not the characteristics of men
who held high offices in this country, but of men who were
engaged in thme pursuits which" the noble lord so
long followed. (Leud cries Oh," and groans
from the Bcntinck and also from the radical party. I
The noble lord might have greatly distinguished himself in
detecting frauds about the name or age of a horse—(renewed
groaas)—but when he imputed to men of tee character of
Lord Grey the fraudulent conduct of suppressing the truth,
with the view of evading a knowledge of the truth, he totally
misconceived that noble lord's character, or the character of
any man with whom he (Lord J. Russell) had been ac-
quainted as holding highoffice in the state. The imputations
of the noble lord the member for Lynn were utterly un-
founded; and he was convinced, when the whole of these
matters came to be discues,d, it would be universally ad-
mated that the noble lord in this case, as in others—that,
for instance, of the right hon. gentleman who was late
prime minister-OmA cries)—and, within these
tew days, respecting a gentleman bolding a subordinate
office in the Board of Trade—that the noble lord, in making
these reckless and nundd imputatieris, inured not the
charecters of the men k n whom he assailed, but his own. (Iron-
ical cheering.)
Mr. DISRAELI could not help thinking had the
noble lord allowed the debate to terminate, or entrusted its
future destinies to the volunteer who moved the adjournment
—(a laugh)—that neither the reputation of the noble lord
aor that of his noble colleague at the head of the colonial
department would have at all suffered. (Hear, hear.) It
was for the house to say whether the latter noble lord had
been vindicated with success—(great cheering from the
opposition and radical parties)—seeing that the state-
ment of the noble lord the member for Lynn, be it right
or wrong, was supported by much detail and strong testimony.
Had the noble lord at the head of the government said any-
thing which should influence the house on this subject ?
(Hear, hear.) The noble lord's colleague had been accused
of a suppressio veri, and the noble lord's answer was that
he knew nothing about it. (Conservative cheers.) Of three
charges he only noticed one, and of that he aid merely that
be knew nothing about it. It was not decorous or decent of
the aoble lord to meet his noble friend's statement in that
manner. (Loud cheers.) The noble lord had dwelt upon
the high character and pedigree of his noble colleague, but
that character charges to be maintained by meeting man-
fully whatevermight be brought, no matter from
what quarter. The noble lord had sneered at a noble pas-
time, with what justice let the gentlemen of England
decide this ; however, he would ay, that his (Mr. Disraeli's)
noble friend's experience in such matters had proved of good
*mice in that house. His honesty, his indefatigable powers
of investization, his indomitable spirit that would not be
towed by any bravo no matter what might be his position
(tremendous cheering), that would not be bullied either in
the ring or from the treasury bench,. (cheers and laughter),
had done good service in exposing the manner in which the
business of the Colonial-office was carried on. (Hear, bear.)
A. to the circumstance in private life to which the noble lord
had with ouch exquisite taste alluded—(hear, bear)—on
that occasion his noble friend did not, like other
public characters, pocket Ole tastioualial offered to hiss bp e

committee of which the Duke of Bedford was chairman
—(loud cheers)—but appropriated it to the use of those
classes whose honesty he wished to improve, as it was now
wished to improve the Colonial-office. (Cheers) Surly
the noble lord did not refuse the advice of Migrate the Duke
of Bedford because he was a member of the Jockey Chin.
(Hear, hear.) He should only say further that the charges
which had been made by his noble friend were before the
country, and most receive a more satisfactory answer than
that which th. y had just heard from the noble lord.
Mr. LABOUCHERE complained of the recklesmess with
which the noble lord the member for King's Lynn made
charges against public servants. (" Oh," and cries of
"Name.") lie would instance the c ises of Mr. Porter
and Mr. J. Wood, the chairman of the Eacise, whom the
noble lord accused in his draft report of having " fenced"
in giving his evidence. (Haar, hear ) The fact was, that
whenever the noble lord detected a mistake in any public
doraiment, he immediately imputed it to fraud and design.
With regard to the question before the house, he (Mr. Ls-
bouchete) would only say that the none lord had not the
slightest shadow of foundation for his assertion. (Oh, oh.)
Sir E. N. BUXTON, as a member of the committee,
stated his belief that the charge against the hon. Under-
Secretary of State was utterly and entirely without founds.
Lion. (Hear. hear.) He fully agreed with the noble lord
the member fur King's Lynn in thinking it unfortunate that
the error had been made, but he persisted in believing it an
error, and nothing more. (Oh.)
Mr. HAWES said that the noble lord had twice brought
forward charges which it was impossible to pass say without
notice. Ile (Mr. Hawes) had stated, in answer to the
first charge, that the despatch of the 27th March was an
important de-patch, and required to be laid before the
committee. His noble friend received it on the
25th, and returned it on the 30th May. The noble
lord now again made the charge in the same way on a Friday
night without notice, knowing that it could not be
answered before Monday. (Oh.) That was not all. The
noble lord hail made a charge which he (Mr. Hawes) would
call upon him to prove—a charge which he would tell the
noble 1 ird wee wholly an., entirely Glee. (Chair, chair.)
The SPEAKER said the right hon. member was not anti.
tied to say that the noble lord Lad made a charge which he
knew to he false.
Mr. HAWES had said the charge was false, (Hear.) All
he wished was that the charge should he fully ince ti..tatef.
L rd G. BENTINCK would only say, that if the minutes
and memorandum were not got up subsequent to the exami-
nation, the hon. gentleman must have been troubled with
the shortest memory that had been heard of since the days
of hl..jocci, with his non tai ricordi —(4 laugh)—for
though there had been three separate discussions on tie
subject, he distinctly stated that no despatch had
been receivi c inzecteet with the aprieultura or '
social state of JaMaielt. Ile was prepared to stand by what
he hod said, and be judged, not by handy•np charges of
falsehneet—(hear, hear;—but by facts as they appeared in
the evidence.
Mr. BAILLIE reminded the hon. member (hie. Hawes)
that he had solemnly declared in the house, in answer to a
question put to him by the right hon. member for Cam-
bridge, that be had net received any such despatch from
Jamaica.
Mr. lIAWES explained that the question was asked by
Mr. Goulburn after his (Mr. Hawn's) examination by the
committee, and liter the arrival of the West India Packet,
and he understood it to refer to information received by that
packet. (Oh, oh.)
Mr. MILES contended that as the despatch in qui bijou
won proved to have been received, it would not du to arow
the blame of withholding it on any mere clerk in the Colo-
n lel- effice.
Lard PALMERSTON said, if the duty rested with a
clerk whether it would do or not, the neglect must be
chirped to that clerk. (Hear.) The noble lord read the
questions put to Mr. Hawes, and the answers given by him,
to show that there was, id reality, no concealment on his
part, and that he acted tinder the firm conviction that the
official direction to produce the despatch had been carried
into effect. It was for the committee, when they t,unl the
despatch was not produced, to have called for it. (A laugh,)
Mr. HENLEY did not think that the explanation of the
noble lord or the hon. gentleman had been very oath actory.
(Hear, hear.) But after all the question was in a narrow
compass. It was a question of fact., and by facts it must he
determined. There was no reason given for not laying the
despatch before the committee. On the whole it was not
surprising that some persons should suspect that a little
practice had been used. (Hear, hear.) It was at all events
a very odd transaction. (Hear, hear )
The Marquis of GRANBY said he was not surprised that
the noble, lord should have hesitated so much as he did in
reading the answers ,o the questions to the hon. under
secretary by the committee, because those answers were in
direct contradiction to what the hon. under secretary had
stated that night. He stated that it was the fault of a clerk
that the document was not laid before the Committee ; but
the hon. under secretary said that the document was peeper.
ing, so that he most have known that it was not in jossession
of the comini•tee on the sth of April.
The CIIAN.:ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
there was nathing inconsistent in the ausw.rs given by his
hon. friend (Mr. Hawes).
The debate was then adjourned till Monday.
The house adjourned at half past 2 o'clock.

ELECTION COMMITTEES.—Ifesreamv.
DUBLIN.—One vote was struck off the majority of
the sitting numbs r.
Smo.—Evidence of bribery and treating closed.
Counsel summ dup for petitions, hen counsel for the Fit-
ting member addressed the committee, and announced his
intend= of calling witnesses.