The Express.
London, England, 1848-06-01 00:00:00

IMPERIAL I' A ItLIA NIEN'I.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.—WEDNESDAT, MAT 31.
The BriAais took tho obeli at 12 o'clock.
PRIVATE IMBINICOL
THIRD ELM t4o.—Whitehaven ionotke Railway Bill.

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PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PITITIONIL-11r. ISSAGUER, from Waterbed, in favour of the
neiezadoi at dessikk births aad marriages—Lord 110 fatim, from
t.With Sef Terbium againat the Roman Catholie Relief
—Yr. U, Ise the limn* Lay Amosiatiou of Binning-
mime system of education-- Mr. E. CRAW -
Teithwthis. ix favour of a general system of secular
tbssegbest the county of LAIIONSLIN, to be supported by
local Mot sag arassed by local authorities elected by the rate-
✓s/yr&
wrung cososiso.—On the motion of sir P. NUGENT, return
der W raraspareare which pawed betw.en Capt. Telford. Pi-
ddle Mutineer Union, and the poor-law commis-
Msice duo of his appointment to the dam of the diemissel
cello armor bawd of stannous, inclusive ; at any other oar.
cello
abash my bra, to that dumbest.
RONAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL.
_On the order of the d.,y fur going into committee on this

bill, _
Mr. LAW moved that it be an initrultion to tie c immit-
tee to divide the hill into two hills, omitting so much in the
first as relate. to the 10th tyro. I V.. chap. 7, and the provisions
thereof. Ills object in making this motion (and in which he
said, in reply to Mr. Anstey, he was determined to persist)
was not to .how any favour to the first part of the bill, but
to rescue the 10th Geo. IV. from its operation.
Mr. ANSTEY regretted that the hon. and learned gen-
tleman felt it necemary to anticipate by his motion a discus-
aion which would have necessarily arisen in committee.
That moth's' was directed against the most important part of
the bill—nom.ly, the penal ensttme .ts of the measure of
1829. Until those enactne nts were repealed complete Satin-
faclon would not he render, d to tete feelings or consciences
of the Roman catholics; and if that house wished to pre-
serve their loyalty they would not consent to the hostile
amendment of the hon. and learned geutlenssn, which would
plec- the clergy men of that religion from which the esta-
blished church Weskit of deriving its apostolic succession in
a worse position than the rabbi of the Jews, who believed
our Saviour to he an imioloor. If that honer legislated for
the Roman catholic, of lieland, forming as they did the
great majority of the pep lotion, in such a spirit as that,
they could not expect them to have confidence in a British
parliament, or to remain unshaken in that loyalty for which
they had hitherto been distinguished. The km. and learned
gentleman then proceeded is explain some alterations which
he proposed in the bill, by the introduction of clause., (of
which be had given notice! requiring certain state in nts to
be made by members of religious orders to the clerks of the
peace. The hon. and learned gentleman was proceeding to
urge the adoption of the clauses of which he had given
notice. when
Sir t 3 GREY ouggested that as the question now before
the house was, whether or not the bill should be divided
into two parts. it would he better to decide that question first,
and then to discuss the claims proposed by the hon. and
learned member when the house got into committee on the
bill.
Mr. LAW hoped the hon. and learned member for
youghal would not give way to the suggestion under the
impression that the measure generally would not be fully
debated.

Mr. ANSTEY a,id that, though obliged to the right bon.
baronet the Hume Secretary for his suggestion, he felt it
necessary to proceed. It would not be necessary for him to
repeat his arguments when the clauses came on fur discussion
In their result: order. He called upon the house, by their
Adoption of those clauses, to remove from the statute-book
the Penalties to which, though not rnforeed, the members of
monastic and other orders bound by vows to the church of
Borne were liable. The services which these religious
orders had rendered to the country merited this coacession.
Be would mention that the society known as the Christian
Brothers had en Ireland established 59 schools, in which
7,760 children were taught ; and in England they had
established 34 schools, into which 4.400 children were re-
ceived, In addition to this, which was exclusive of Birming-
ham, from whence he had no return, there were schools
established by the Christian Brothers in which no less than
1,600 .dulls wars receiving instruction. Was it for such
That
deeds as these that these men merited transportation ?
That was the question to be decided ; and with confidence he
(Mr Mutes) should leave it in the hands of the hou-e,
relying upon that sense of justbv, mercy, and fair dealiog
which was implanted in the bosom of every Englishman, and
to which no appeal was ever made in vain.
Mr. N EWDEGATE thought it was right the house should
be informed at whose instance and upon whose authority this
measure was now being, pressed forward. It happened that,
in turning over the ' Roman Catholic 'Directory" for the
year 1848, he found the f.l owing announcement:—" Feb.
19, 1847. Thomas Chisholm Anstey, Esq., M.P., barrister.
at-law, made a Knight of the order of St. Gregory by his
110h11,111 the Pope, to consideration of his great exertions in
favour of Roman catho.ics, and ia respect of the
repeal of those laws which in Great Britain
imposed penalties upon Roman Catholic fraternities for the
exercise of their rights." (Hear, hear.) Such was the valise
which the Pope set upon the exer ions of the hon. aed learned
member, and from this circumstance it was euy to guess at
whose instance this movement was made. The object of the
bill was, in fact, to legalise Jesuit and other Roman catholic
monateie est thlishments in this country. The different order
it was difficult to describe by name, but of this the house
might be certain, that whweeer name they held they were
all under the cognisance of the Jesuits, a body which had
not only been expelled from Rome itself, but from every
Boman catholic country in Europe which stood forth in the
eau," of treedom. History showed that the Jesuits ever
cams into power like lambs, but that they ruled like wolves;
and yet it was proposed now not merely that this body "hould
be allowed to exist in this country, but that their existence
should he legalised by statute. And what was the diameter
of this order with which the hon. and learned member had
been honoured ? St. Gregory the 7th, the patron of that
order, was the Pope who had deposed the Emperor Henry
the 4:h. The hoc. and learned member said it
WWI not Gregory the 7.h, but Gregory the 9th, who
bad deposed the Emperor Haney the 4th. Be
that as it might, the decrees of both those
piped sovereigns were of the same character and spirit, de-
claring the oath of allegiance to an excommunicated person
(such as was the Queen of these realms by the Church of
Home) was not valid, and that such oaths ought to be called
perjuries 111 against the Church of Rome. Nay, it had been
admitted that if a statute of this realm came into collision
with the laws of conseenms, the latter ought to prevail.
These decretal orders of both the Oregories maintain that
faith was not to be kept with heretics against the interests of
the Romith church, and he (Mr. Newdegate) must say that
if the principle, of thew decrees were to prevail among the
Boman catholic' of this country he trembled for their alle-
giance to the sovereign. He trusted, therefore, the house
would view with the deepest caution the proposal now made
to deer those protections which by the Emancipation Act
were secured to the established church. The removal of
these protections had been demanded in a manner that was
almost insulting to the protestant members of the house,
but the protestant people of this country were not to
be deterred by that manner. They had no desire to
persecute any class of their fellow subjects, but they
would not submit to be dictated to by any clan.
The words of the noble lord at the head of the foreign de-
partment in reference to the Jesuits of Switzerland were per-
fectly applicable to the ease of Ireland. The noble lord recom-
mended the expulsion of the Jesuits from Switzerland. He
(Mr. Newdegate) would not rte that; but he would appeal
to her Maj. cy'a government not to legalise their existence
in this country if they did not wish to see the institutions of
tee country overthrown. Tbere was a paper in this country
which was uoderotood to represent the policy of the Jesuits
at Stonyhurst. It was so stated in a letter in the papers--
anonymous, no doubt—but he believed the writer was will-
i,ty to the hon. memeer for Youghal!
iqo utol dgti th,lis authority
Tho Earl of ARUNDEL.—I am quite ready to do so.
Mr. NEWDEGATE knew that neither the noble lord nor
the Earl of Shrewsbury was treated with favour by that
paper ; but would the noble lord state distinctly that that
paper did not represent the opinions of the Jesuits ?
Tho Earl of ARUNDEL would state presently.
Mr NEWDEGATF. then quoted an article from the
Tabift, in which democracy was recommended as the true
policy of he Roman catholic eolith at tho prent. Ile mu
anxious t.' show the houses that the principl.es of democracy
was now a weapon in the hands of the pops! power. He
would use no threats,
would but he was
ern sure the peopleas of this
country overturn any government which w so un-
mindful of the principles of protextantism as to expose tne
country to the dangers to be apprehended from the unlimited
admission of Jesuits into it. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and
learned member for Youghal had threatened them with
agitation if the measure was thrown out. He would tell
the hon. gentleman to beware how he roused the religious
feelings of the people of England. It woe well known that
there was no point on wteich they. were so sensitive. •No
revolutions bad ever been effected in this country except on I
wabjects connected with religion. Protestantism was dear
to them, sad he felt assured that they would not suffer any.
thing that tended to weaken it. (Cheers.)
Mr. ANSTEY, in explanation, said that the hon. member
was wrong in stating that he (Mr. Anstey) had made any
threat in case the bill was thrown out.
The Earl of ARUNDEL said he complained of the pre-
sent motion as an unfair one, the object being to delay the
bill. With regard to the Tabl, t, he believed that paper had
a large circulation in Ireland. The hon. member said that
if
Tablet was the organ of the Pope and the Jesuit's. But,
ha looked to the Gazetta di ltonta, he would find that
paper spoken of In not very favourable terms. (Hear, hear.)
With respect to the letter which appeared in the TOMS, he
was aware that a letter had been sent to the Times in reply
to it, which, however, had not been published, for what
reason he did not know. (Hear, hear.) It afterwards ap-
peered in the Tabkt, he believed. It was a singular charge
to attribute the revolutions which had taken place in Europe
to the Jesuits, seeing that they were the very first to suffer
from them. (Hear.) No; the fact was that the Jesuits
Were the most loyal of all people, for they always supported
the governments under which they lived, no matter what
their form was. As te believed the object of the motion
was to delay the bill, would not trespass on the house
farther.
Mr. NAPIER said that he was willing to agree to the
removal of say civil di-abilities which affected his Roman
catholic fellow-subjects, but he would arenuosoly oppose that
part. of the measure which interfered with the Emancipation
Act. (Hear, hear.) Prot, etantism was dear to the people
of this coo itry, it was vital to the conotitution, and they
could not do an injury to the one without at the game time
injuring the other. (Hear, hear.) Under the law as it
stood the loyal Roman catholic enjoyed perfect and ...oral Jett
toleration ; and if he did not, he was ready C, stand by him
titre or elsewhere to resist in his obtaining it. But then
slay should not endeavour to destroy the securities for pro-