The Express.
London, England, 1847-03-20 00:00:00

I

that afterwards it should appear that there existed similar
reasons why he ought net to have appointed it had he known
those mesons before, he should consider it his duty, in the
face of the obloquy to which he was now subjected—(no,
no l),—to discharge that committee. He leered ite had given
some offence to his right hon. friend; but the reason
why ho had not conferred with him on the suhjeet was that
there was no question of private connection, of personal
interest, or of influence involved in the objection to the com-
mittee, of whit h he had been appointed chairman.
Lord J. RUSSELL must say that after the hon. baronet's
statement he felt the utmost confidence in bias generally.
(Hear.) He felt quite sure that the house could do no better
than leave to his judgment, and that of the committee of
'election, the future conduct of these matters—eatistied that
be would exercise a sound discretion, and that the rules by
which he would be guided would be calculated to preserve
the character of that house. (Hear, hear.) The duties of
the office were ouerous, were attended with no reward, but
often with obloquy, and he thought that any hon. member
who undertook them ought to be supported by the house.
(Hear, hear.)
After a few remarks from Mr. W. Parrots, Lord SANUOR,
Mr. AGLIONRY, and Mr. V. STUART, the conversation
dropped.
AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS BILL.
Mr. M. GIBSON (in answer to Mr. Beckett) said lie had
no objection to adept his suggestion, and postpone this bill
until after Easter.
PRISONS BILL—CUSTODY OF OFFENDERS BILL.
Sir G. GitEY (in answer to Lord Mahoe) said that as
some hon. members wished to raise the question of secondary
punishments on the discussion of these bills, they should
only be read a second time upon the dietinct understanding
that there should be an opportunity of fully discussing them
at a future stage.
THE WINDOW TAX.
Lord DUNCAN wished to put 'question to the noble lord,
the Chief Commissioner of the Woods and Forests, with
regard to the window-tax in connexion with the bill or the
health of towns, which was laid on the table yesterday. He
wished to ask if any alteration in the mode of assessing and
collecting the window-tax was contained in that bill. He
was induced to ask this question because the noble lord, as
a director of the Health of Towns Association, moot have
been a party to an opinion expressed by the direction, in
which theighly disapproved of this tax, and hoped it
would be abolished. (Laughter.)
Viscount MORPETH admitted that the window duties
were involved in the monitory questien, but they had also a
financial character. With:regard to the forthcoming bill,
he could only say that he bad had no intimation from his
right hon. friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that it
would deal with the window-tax.
HIGH WAYS.
Mr. AGLIONBY begged to ask the right hon. gentleman,
the Secretary for the Home Department, whether it was the
intention of the government to introduce any measure this
session for amending the laws, and providing for tbo better
management of the highways ?
Sir G. GREY said that a bill was before the house last
r session, and was withdrawn, which provided for the revivion
and alteration of the law, end he hoped to be able to present
it to the house in a short time. Contideriug the nature of
the subject, and the state of public business, he thought it
better that it should be read a second time, and referred to a
select committee.
-

FRENCH MILITARY HOSPITAL AT PORT
MAHON.
Mr. BORTH WICK asked the noble lord the Secretary
of State for Foreign Affairs, whether the government
had any information on the subject of an alleged arrange-
ment between the government of France ►nd Spain, by
which a French military hospital and a store of coal were
said to have been established at Port Mahon, under the pre-
text of aiding the steam navigation between France and her
Algerine possessions.
Viscount PALMERSTON could only Mate that her Ma-
jesty's government had no official information which con-
firmed the report to which the question of the hon. member
related, but the result and tendency of their information
rather led them to believe that the report was unfouudvd.
THE CASE OF MR MARA.

The Earl of LINCOLN said that in bringing forward the
ease of Mr. Mara, last night, he stated that he had held his
appointment under the commissioners for four years, and
the right hon. gentleman, the Chancellor of the Excheqaer,
quoting from certain papers. said it way only six months.
He had ascertained on inquiry, that he (Lord Lincoln) was
wrong, and that six months was the time.
ADJOURNMENT OF TILE HOUSE.
It was ordered that the house, at its rising, do adjourn tin
Monday neat.
THE MALLOW LANDLORDS.
Mr. CALLAGHAN (who was very indistinctly heard)
said that it would be in the recollection of the house, that
the hon. member for Bath had referred on a former occasion
to the statement made by two Roman Catholic clergymen,
with reference to some gentlemen who resided near him
(Mr. Callaghan), a statement which bad been reiterated
by the hon. member for Marylebone. He had a letter
from one of those gentlemen on the subject. It had
been stated that he was possessed of property to the
value of 10,0001. a year, near Mallow, and that he
had not subscribed to the relief of the poor there, and
also kept a great number of dogs. He told him (Mr.
' Callaghan) that he had received an applicatien from
these reverend gentlemen for a subscription, and while
ascertaining whether his property was in their district, a
letter was publisked in the public papers dealing vet.) hardly
with him for . not subscribing. He would not, therefore,
subscribe to their fund, hut he gave work to the labourers on
his property, and in another parish where he had only 180
acres he gave 101., and in another where he had a small farm
he gave 51. to the relief committees. Many of his tenants
owed him five, seven, and eleven years' rant, so that he
cou'd not have been a very cruel landlord. He had given
extensive employment in his own neighbourhood, and paid
in wages 251. to 301. a-week.
Sir B. HALL said he had not made the statements in
question on mere report, but received them from two Ro-
man Catholic clergymen who had been sent to London as
a deputation from a meeting of the Catholic clergy at Far-
moy, to communicate with the government on the subject of
the poor-law in Ireland, and the question of out-door relief.
Those reverend gentlemen hail requested him to state those
fade in that assembly, so that they might go forth to the
public, and he had taken them in writing, so that he might
not misapprehend or misstate them. He could not but give
credence to gentlemen in their position. He bad considered
that if be repeated those statements they would go forth to
the public again ; but as part of them had been contradicted,
he thought it better not to refer to them again. and he
would refrain from any further observations beyond crying
that he had good authority for making them, With regard
to Mr. Courtenay, one of' the gentlemen alluded to, ii the
statement respecting him was unfounded, no one would re-
gret it more than he (Sir B. Hall) would, but he must
leave the matter between him and the reverend gentlemen

in question.
Mr. CALLAGHAN said, Mr. Coartensy had desired
him to say, that for the last six months he had not had a
doge in his ponession. (" Hear," and laughter.)
Mr. F. SHAW always thought that if the hon. baronet
(Sir B. Halt) had followed his own inclination, he never
would have brought forward that statement. Instead 0! the
gentleman in question having 70 dogs at Mallow, he never
had more than 12, and for the lan six months he had not
one in that neighbourhood. Ile had contritiatted 51. and 101.
in that place to the relief of the poor, and his own neigh-
bourhood he paid 251. to 30/. a week for la areas. These
rev.gentlemen seemed to think they were the only persons who
were to receive contributions for the relief of that district. sod
Mr. Courtenay said that a scandalous letter had appeared in
public print with respect to his not contributing. and there-
fore he did not choose to give his subscriptions to those gen-
tlemen ; but he gave one to the treasurer of the relief Nun.
mittett, and another to the Protestant clergymen.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL complaised of the strong terms
applied to those reverend gentlemen by the right hun. gen-
tleman.
Mr. SHAW only stated what Mr. Courtenay said. It we.
not kis own language.
Sir H. W. BARRON knew many persons who refused to
subscribe to relief committees rn account of their objection
to their construction and management; but they took ears
that none of the persons on their own property entered the
post-house, or received anything from the relief committees,
but gave them work, sdvances of money, and seed.
SUBSCRIPTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES
FOR IRELAND.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I hope my hon. friend the member
for Stroud, who has a motion for an amendment on the
Poor Relief Bill for Ireland, will net interpose it, and pre-
vent our going into committee. I wish to take this oppor-
tunity to say, for the satisfaction of my owe feelings, that I
have observed with great pleasure the noble and munificent
subscriptions in the United States of America for the relief
of distress in Ireland. (Loud cheers.) I think it is not
improper in this house for me, as a British subject, to say
that I am extremely gratified that, mindful of our common
origin, the people of the United States are using exertions
in a most charitable spirit to raise large subscriptions for this
or(Great cheering.)
.P. SCROPE said that, aa he understood the principle
et kis amendment was adopted in the bill, he would not
Mess it.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
The house then went into committee on this bill. On
Manse 1,
Mr. P. SCROPE wished to have some explana-
tion of the word " permanent " in this clause.
Did the words " permanently disabled" mean those totally
disabled within the meaning applied to them by the poor-
law commissioners ? as if so, the clause would exclude three-
fourths of the infirm poor from the possibility of being re.
liesed out of the workhouses. He therefore hoped that the
government would not insist upon the retention of the w•
tatnrently "in the clause. Returns which were •
ie'wed that during the half.year ending M
1844, there had been relieved only 13,000 perso
under the class designated aged, infirm, and •
dieabled, while 60,000 destitute persons of e'.
been relieved, so that the word to which
would exclude the temporarily infirm
ration of the bill, and give them re'
in the workhouse alone. On t`
that the word " permanent?*
clause.
Sir G. GREY dr"
wenncy of the fi^
word, perm-
outdoor re''
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1- 6 for Ireland,
circumstances he could r (.. . pone. 0,0111
word "permanently'' fro ''\. ''
.., . t to the c'w
Mr. P. SCROPE sister '',..''' use. t tile
iti
Charities Act confined reli ma ebitt at Prelcirwedicirr
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as to assimilate the gronr.!aw for Inland with the English
poor-law, there would be a continuance of the influx of
Lilt pauperA into this eountrc, in order to obtain a more
liberal relief than was afforded to them in their own country.
Sir If. W. BARRON said the sympathy of the hon. member.
for Stroud in ruspect to the Irish poor wro confined to the
relief of the English pockets. After such a plain unvarnished
exposition of motives which had just been made, he hoped
the Irish people would not be gulled by the sympathy ex-
premed by same hon. members. (Oh, oh.)
Mr. S. O'BRIEN thought it most desirable to avoid the
introduction of topics calculated to lead to feelings of exaspe-
ration. (Hear, hear.) Ile concurred in the proposition
made by the hon. member for Stroud, and he would even go
further. He wished to know what would be done under
this clause in the cue of a labouring man who met with an
accident which might occasion the lose of his leg, for instance ?
would the man himself be taken into the workhouse, and
his family receive out-door relief, white he was disabled
from earning his and their means of support ? Perhaps the
noble lord opposite would answer that question.
Sir J. GRAHAM attached the greatest possible import-
ance to this clause, and thought it was safer to provide ape-
eifically in what cases outdoor relief should be granted, i
rather than to leave the motion in vague and general terms.
The words " permanently disabled" were not new in
legislation, for they were cited in the Poor Removal Act of
lasi session, and he (Sir J. Graham) thought they were rightly
used in the present bill. He, however, was also of opinion
that the clause stopped short, and ought to include, as sug-
gested by his noble friend below hint (Lord Courtenay),
among those entitled to outdoor relief, widows and
children, who, though able-bodied, might be leR
destitute. Again, he thought the Medical Charities
Act of last year, which was only a temporary measure, and
would expire this session, might be very advantageously en-
aon this bill. With the additions he had suggested,
trftd
etsaion Id give the clause his cordial support.
Lord J. RUSSELL, in reply to the question put by the
hon. member for Limerick (Mr. Smith O'Brien), said that
the cue of a labouring mac whose leg had been cut off,
would be considered to come under the definition " penile
nently disabled," and he would receive out-door relief. With
respect to what had just been stated by the right hon. bait.
opposite (Sir J. Graham), he would remember that the set
of last year, to which he referred, was only a temporary mea-
sure, and it was now under consideration whether it ought
to be renewed or engrafted on this bat. On the other points
put, he (Lord J. Atwell) thought there were very great
objections to extending out-door relief where only um
porary airline* prevailed in a family. Relief of
that description had been a source of great abuse
in England, and he was sure would be much more
abused in Ireland. Indeed, a friend of his, a member
of an English board of guardians, told him that they had
given out-door relief to a labouring man earning wages, be-
WOO he had a child that was sick. He (Lord J. Russell)
inquired if the board knew for a fact that the child was sick,
and the reply he had received from hie friend was " Oh, we
made the child sick for the purpose of gaining outdoor
relief." If such an abuse prevailed in England, it would
prevail to a much greater extent in Ireland. (Hear, hear.)
The words objected to in the clause would not prevent out-
door relief being afforded in cases of epidemic disease., fever,
er instances of that kind.
Mr. V. SMITH and Sir W. CLAY supported the amend-
ment rommed by the hon. member for Stroud (Mr. P.
Scrape
Mr. SS concurred with the views expressed by the
noble lord at the head of the government.
Lord COURTENAY expressed his intention to support'
the amendment if pressed to a division.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD hoped the government would
consent to the omission of the words "permanently dis-
abled."
Mr. MUNTZ thought it was of the highest importance to
the beneficial workingi of this bill that the words objected
to should be expunged from the clause.
Mr. Hendee, r. Bateaw, and Sir W. Bannon de-
clared themselves in favour of the clause as it now stood.
Mr. NE WDEGATE called the attention of the govern-
ment to a statement he had received front the Rev. Mr.
Townsend. of Skibliereen, showing the over crowded state
of the workhouse of that union, which now contained 1,449
inmates, though only built for the reception of SOO. Half
the inmates were now suffering from disease, and he trusted
the government would take means to prevent the over-
crowding of theme receptacles of misery and want.
Sir G. GREY observed that express provision was made
by the second clause to prevent such a state of things as that
to which he alluded.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN thought it would be better,
on the whole, to retain the word " permanent," as the house
was now legislating, as he hoped, for the permanent benefit
of Ireland. _ . . .

Mr. W. V. STUART thought it very &mirth's that pro-
vision should be made in the way of out-door relief, for
fever cases.
' •• .

Mr. SHAW said it was impossible, under existing circum-
stances, to find room in the workhouses for the sick and in-
digent; and he would implore the noble lord to be cautious
how he extended the clue which was thus to be entitled to
relief. If the workhouses were not filled to overflowing,
they were sere to become so, in consequence of the two first
clauses of this bill.
Sir R. PEEL was in favour of the word " permanent "
being retained. It was easy to conceive caw in which its
retention would operate as a great hardship ; for instance,
where a man had his leg broken, or suffered other serious
accident ; but, upon the whole, it would be better to retain
it. The legislature ought to be very careful how they broke
down the self-dependence of the Irish poor, a consideration
which was much more important than relief to this country.
If the Irish poor were demoralized, by ben, taught to rely
habitually on parochial relief, the effect would be most serious
on this country. He was willing to try the experiment—
and it was a very important one—which this bill would
make ; but he could not refrain from expressing his convic-
tion that some very stringent provisions were necessary to
guard against the abuse of the right to relief. (Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said he was not prepared to relin-
quish the word " permanent." (Hear, hear.) He feared
that the omission of this restriction would lead to such an
extent of fraud and abuse as would defeat the intentions of
the legislature. The hon. member for Waterford had re-
ferred to the cue of the father of a family being so dis-
abled as to be unable to earn a livelihood for himself and
his family ; bat eases of that kind might be provided for
and he was ready to consider whether words could not be
introduced so as to exclude abuse, and yet give the right of
relief to • man who had been absolutely disabled by an
accident from punting his work. (Hear, hear.)
Lord 0. BENTINCH said he wss as anxious as any one
to guard against abuse but he should like to see the word
" permanent" expunged. In the English poor-law, provi-
sion was made for persons attacked with serous and sudden
illness ; and some such provision ought to have been intro-
duced into this bill, He thought, with the hon. member for
Waterford, that the unions in Ireland were too large ; if the
number of workhouses had been trebled, it would have been
a great advantage.
Mr. B. R.scorT was against the restriction. Had such a
limitation existed in this country, during the last six months,
there would have been numerous cases of starvation. (Hear.)
After all, it would be for the guardians to decide whether
relief should be granted or not in these cues
Mr. P. SCROPE referred to the case of small holden of
land, numbers of whom were compelled to apply for
parochial relief; and said if these persons were driven into
the workhouse, with their female', the landlords would
take advantage of that to pull down their houses and take
possession of the land; and thus these poor persons would be
thrown upon the world. He hoped that some provision
would be introduced, authorising boards of guardians to
give out-door relief in such cases. After what had fallen
from the noble lord at the head of the government, as to the
intention of introducing a provision applicable to the eau of
accidental disability, he should not press his amendment to
a division.
Sir R. PEEL said the object of the clause appeared to be
to Rive • right of relief to the permanently disabled; the
only discretion which the guardians had was as to whether
the relief should be in or out of the workhouse. The omission
of the word " permanent," therefore, would give a parities
right to relief to all disabled persons; and if the workhouses
were full, they would have a right to out door-relief. (Hear.)
There were dentitions extreme cases of accidents which ought
to be provided for.
Sr O. GREY said that such provision was contemplated,
but it was desirable that the terms of the provision should be
well considered before they were introduced. Probably, the
cue might be met by an extension of the previsions of the
fever bill of last MOOR. (Hear.)
Sir W. BARRON said that hon. members appeared to
forget that there were such institutions as fever hospitals and
dispensaries in Ireland ; and no man who met with an acci-
dent need fe to the workhouses for relief.
MT. WAELEY was Zillions that persons suffering
accideats should be relieved at home, and not in workhouse
or hospitals. Let the house give Ireland such a law as had
existed in this country, and which he hoped to Iwo restored
to the statute-book. It was a fact, that in this country the
Irish poor were better cared for than in their own land ;
and he wondered that Irish members did not blush to know
that suck was the ease. (A laugh.) The retention of the
word " t" in this clause would have the effect of
mate narrowing the right to relief. This tinkering
with the poor-law was sediment to disgust the people of this
country. Why should there be three different poor-laws—
one for England, another for Scotland, and another for
Ireland? They were bound in justice to give to Ireland
and Scotland a poor-law similar to the old English poor-law.
If the hon. member for Stroud pressed his motion, he would
give him his support.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he would object to the in-
tandustia& of the English poor-law into Ireland, as he would
lea indica to oppose it on account of the abases to which
it wee coyest.
After sem further discussion, in which the CICAPICTLLOR
d the ltdowassth, Mr. J. O'Cotnram., and Sr W. LIMNS
WIZ the was withdrawn.
Lea O ~_NAY, after a short discussion. withdrew
fah amanamend regarding the Relief of Destitute Widows
who lied depending on them.
The deem we. then *greed to.
On the MIMI clause being read,
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN moved certain verbal altera-
tions in the chess.
Sir 0. GRIT said that he would oppose the amendment
of the both geaesan, as the insertion of the words which
be proposed wild take too much power out of the hands of
the poordaw eranziimioners.
ARM' a few words from Mr. 0100,1.1 Z,
Mr. LABOUCHERE said, the good working of the act
would depend, is a treat measure, on the cordial es-opera-
tion se the beads of guardians, but after the experience of
the pith be tit would be unsafe to leave to them
the pow at frflt a veto on the order of the poor-law
eumukelemsse le rind out-door relief where it might be
*M& tow worth thew Mr. B. HZILBIRT, which wen not
beard is_thwenlka._
Kr. MAB mid be believed the death would

form • dangerous precedent, and he iil.ould therefore sup-
port the amendments.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought it
would be mat dangerous to give boards of guardians the
power proposed by the amendments, after the conduct
of the boar& of guardians of the Cestlebar and other unions,
who had so obviously neglected their duties. No abuse
could arise from the clauses as they now stood. One of two
foga must be proved, either that the workhonee was full, or
that fever existed.
After a short conversation between Mr. Butzw, Mr. D.
BZOWNI, and Mr.
LISPROY,
Mr. NEWDEGATE mid he thought the hon. gentleman
the member for Northampton was not aware of the effect of
his proposal—it would create a loophole for the commis-
sioners, affording them the plea of ignorance in every eau.
Captain LAYARD thought more justice would be done
by the poor-law comminioners than the boards of guardians.
Mr. V. STUART having made a few observations,
Mr. S. O'BRIEN withdrew his amendments.
Mr. P. SCROPE proposed to add, after the word " afore-
said" in the fifth line of the second clause, the words "and
for any other sufficient cause in the discretion of the guar-
dians. His object was to enable the boards of guardians to
apply the test of outdoor labour to the able-bodied pauper,
without compelling him to go into the workhouse. The
clause virtually declared that the board of guardians should
not have power to give relief by out-door labour until the
workhouse was full : and the object of his amendment was,
to allow outdoor relit( to be given at the discretion of the
board of guardians or commissioners. It was generally un-
derstood in many parts of Ireland that such a power would
exist, and it was impolitic and unfair to the pauper who
.4 be willing to work, if he could find employment, to
o him to go into a workhouse and live in idleness; he
wo d, moreover, be able to pay a large proportion of the
cost of his maintenance if he was permitted to work. Such
a practice existed in England. In the Chorlton Union, at Man-
cheater. the guardians employed a great number of paupers
in reclaiming and cultivating was. land, and the power of
affording such out-door labour was general in this country.
It was said that the workhouse test was the best, but ho
was of opinion that the indolent would prefer it to a labour
test; and here he would observe that it was a calumny to
say that the Irishman was not as willing to work in his own
country as in Liverpool ter Glasgow, tf he had the same
opportunity of doing so. (Hear, hear.) It was a shame
that he should not have that opportunity, and it was his
object to afford it to him.
Mr. LABOUCHERE objected to the proposition of his
hon. friend. The present state of Ireland showed how un•
oafs it would be to rely on labour as a test—(hear, hear)—
for it must be admitted that in many cases the labourers
there preferred working on the public works, even at lower
wages, to working for private individuals. He believed,
that to employ labourers in gangs, under the superintend-
ence of the hoard, of guardians, would have a demoralising
effect on the labouring population of Ireland—(hear)—and
he thought it better to frame the law so as to encourage the
employment of the labouring population by the property of
the country in the cultivation of the soil. They should be
cautious how they admitted lath a permanent measure, like
the present, a Glee and unsound principle, lest they should
thereby retard the improvement of Ireland, and the self-
supporting powas of the labouring portion of its inhabitants.
(Hear.) He therefore trusted the committee would not
accede to the prepaid= of his hon. friend,
Mr. S. O'BRIEN regretted that his hon. friend raised
this question, when they could :not adequately dlieun it,
but he was in favourof some such principle as that contained
in his proposition.
Mr. D. BROWNE said that the people of Ireland were
meet unwilling to enter the workhouses: and the conse-
quence would be, that they would have the same destitu-
tion in future years, unless they afforded labour out of the
workhouse, to be paid for by the state.
Sir G. GREY said the question was, whether they should
dispense with the workhouse tut, or have perpetual public
works? (Hear, hear.) The bon. gentleman made a short
speech, but it was clear what he meant.
Mr. BELLEW thought that nothing could be more objec-
tionable than the proposition of the hon. member for Stroud.
Mr. ',ERRAND wished to know how they were to carry
oat the workhouse tart ? Was it to be expected that an able-
bodied person would have recourse to workhouses, in which
fever prevailed to such an extent?
Mr. LABOUCHERE said it wee evident the hon. member
had not read the bill, or even the present clause, which pro-
vided for giving out-door relief when fever prevailed in the
workhouses to a dsogerouo degree.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL thought that was too indiscri-
minate a censure of public works in Ireland. He knew that
in remote districts they were anything but useless.
Mr. P. SCROPE did not think, after the government had
been employing 700,000 a week in public works in Ire-
land, that they would have described his proposition as one
which was likely to have a demoralising effect.
After a short conversation the amendment was withdrawn.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN proposed amendments on
clause 2, to the effect that it should be left optional with the
boards of guardians to give out-door relief to persons, not per-
manently disabled when there seine room in the workhouse.
Sir G. GREY said there was already a clause in the bill to
that effect.
Mr. SHAW opposed the clause. He saw no means by
' which out-door relief could be given without to the same ex-
tent displacing independent lah,ur. All experience was
condemnatory of the principle. The noble lord (Lord John
Russell) had Naked those who were opposed to granting out
relief to my what remedy they had to propose as a sub-
stitute If the deputation which had waited upon the
noble lord, of which he (Mr. Shaw) was a member, had not
themselves proposed an effective remedy, they had at least
' shown that the noble lord's not only was Ineffective, but
must be disastrous to Ireland. The reasoning of the noble
lord on that subject was not more satisfactory than that of
a physician who, in a difficult and dangerous case, said to
those who were in consultation with him, " If you do not
prescribe some medicine which will infallibly cure the pa-
tient, you cannot object to my administering a dose of poison."
(Hear, hear.) The noble lord said a member of the de-
putation had observed that the principal resource upon which
they relied for the relief of Irish destitution was private cha-
rity. What he (Mr. Shaw) stated was, that, in the present
emergency, the deputation would have consented to any
temporary measure. But, further, they did not object to
grant to all a right to in-door relief, and to the
permanently disabled a right to out-door relief. They
were willing to add to the present number of workhouses;
and the noble lord was told that they would concede the
principle that ultimately the property of Ireland should be
responsible for the support of the poor. Now, what a
gigantic system of out-door relief would that be, which ex-
tended to the 700,000-heads of familia, representing 3,000,000
persons now subsisting on public eharity in Ireland. He
entreated the committee to consider whether it were possible
to carry out such a principle. In Mayo there were 300,000
persons employed en public works, and the rateable value of
the property was only 326,0001. Could all these persons be
supported by out-door relief ? In six counties of Ireland
the rateable value of the property of Inland was 1,700,0001.,
which was 275. per head for the population. The noble lord
said that the charge for the poor now imposed on Irish pro-
perty was only about 6d. in the pound, while in
nerland the amount was Is. 7d. This dine last year
the Irish workhouses contained about 47,000 inmates; they
now contained 110,000, and the rate had probably been
doubled. In England there was but one labourer, in rela-
tion to the amount of produce, for four in Ireland. Again,
while in this country the wages of the labourers averaged Ss.
a week, in Ireland the amount was only about 2s. What
standard, then, could they possibly adopt, in order to make
the condition of the labourer receiving out-door relief in-
feriae to that of the independent labourer? (Hear, hear.)
After ell, the government proposal uses only suited to a
period of famine, and he believed that in making it they were
yielding to clamour, instead of acting on their own convie-
tions. He admitted that Ireland had great resources, but
he believed that out-door relief would prevent the de-
velopment of resources, crush the whole property of
the country, demoralise the people, engulph law,
property, and population in wide spread pauperism, and
inundate this country with the pauper population of Ireland.
He should therefore feel it his duty to take the sense of the
house agunst the clause.
Mr. D. BROWNE said that an opinion prevailed ge-
nerally in Ireland that'out-door relief was the only system
of relief which would be agreeable to the people of that
country. (Laughter.) He thought that without adopting
the principle of out-door relief, they might as well pees no
bill at all.
Mr. YOUNG said that the clause under discussion was
open to great objection. He was by no means dis-
posed to dispute the proposition that Irish pro-
perty should be taxed, and heavily taxed, for the
support of Irish poor ; indeed, some rears ago, when
the expression of such an opinion was perilous and unpopu
tar, he gave Lis support to that Irish poor-law which had
now been some time in operation, and which, however much
it might require amendment, was no doubt attended by
many benefits and great collateral advantages. (Hear, hear.)
To the first clause of the present bill, too, he had given his
assent, though he felt with others, that its effect must be to
double the poor-law rating of impoverished Ireland. But
when he approached this second clause, he owned that he
drew beck with alarm. It was a clause designed to meet
some fearful occident, some terrible emergency, or unprece-
dented catastrophe. But, looking at the course of human
affairs, and trusting to the beneficence of Providenoe,
they might hope, that such catastrophes would
only occur at very long intervals, and that in ordi-
nary cues human foresight and vigilant precaution
effectually guard against them. The objection to the
present clause, therefore, was, that being a clause only
suited for an emergency, its insertion in a permanent bill
was calculated to mislead and to alarm. He (Mr. Young)
bad net had the satisfaction of bearing the speech of the
noble lord, but from what was reported to him, he conceived
that the noble lord had not contemplated that this clause
should be one of constant operation. Now if, that was the
case, be must my that a more dangerous provision could not
possibly be introduced. In England, the meat energetic
country in the world, it had been proved by experience that
the tendency of out-door relief was to pauperise the people.
Every anthority on the treatment of the poor had declared
against the system. Poor-law commissioners had declared
it ruinous and impracticable; and yet it was in the face of this
deliberate declaration that this principle was now to be
applied to Ireland. He could assure the government that
the alarm which this provision of the measure had occasioned
In Ireland was not easily to be described. Only two days
had passed since he (Mr. Young) had returned from the
county he represented. It was one of the most unfortunately
circumstanced In Ireland. Densely peopled—with resident
proprietors; few and far between—with a hilly country, houses
small and poor, and no manufactures whatever, the burden
uponthe property was very considerable. Some hon. members
in that house bad declared that the property of Ireland was
only rated to the poor to the extent of the pound. In
the three unions of the county Cavan the rates en as ave-
rage of the last four years had been, in the first union, 71d.,
in the wood 91d.., and in the third 101 d. The addition of
sashbards" se this clause would throw upon this' would

' the outgoing tenant of that farm I mold not leave the
dwelling-house until a fortnight or alma weeks after
the 29th of September. The widow therefore applied
to a Mr. WEBB, the land agent of Sir EDWARD SMYTH ;
and she soon afterwards received a letter from WEBB,
stating that he had written to Surrit, the landlord,
who in reply had said, " With respect to &..LL's farm,
I regard Mr. CHARLTON as my tenant from Michael-
mas-day, and he must make what arrangement he
thinks fit." Mr. CHARLTON was then seen, who, as
might be expected, readily assented to the widow's'
occupation of the farm-house for the ten days or a
fortnight which she required. Matters stool
thus until the 29th of September last, when
SMITH, the bailiff, came and demanded instant
possession of the house, and on being told
that an arrangement bad been made with
the new tenant for a temporary occupation,
and notwithstanding WEBB'S letter, which was
shown to him, he proceeded with the aid of six
or eight labourers, to tarn Mrs. Weareas and her
family, with their furniture, into the highway. This
was done with much roughness and brutality, and was
expressly put upon his positive instructions, saying
it was more than his place was worth not to turn her
oat, or to give her time to remove her things. They
actually tore down and damaged blinds and fixtures,
which had been valued to the new tenant, and which,
of course, could only fetch a fair price in that way.
Probably, there have not been many worse cases of
cruelty and oppression upon a helpless woman. Had
the act done been legal, it would have been altogether
inexcusable ; bat it was absolutely illegal. The Chief
Justice, Sir THOMAS WILDE, in his charge to the
jury, expressly told them, that, though the widow's
term ceased on the 29th of September, she had the
whole of that day—that is, till 12 o'clock at night—
to remove her furniture, " and that, therefore, neither
the landlord or any one else could interrupt her
during that day."
Sofar, the case seems to have been asbad as it could
well be. The widow's counsel justly said that the
landlord SMITH, not the bailiff SMITH, was the real
defendant, and the evidence proved that to be
the case. In fact, such outrages are only committed
in England by landlords, and agents of landlords act-
ing under their authority.
Its likely, however, that no direct authority from
Sir EDWARD BOWYER SMITH could be proved, and
the action seems only to have been brought against
SMITH the bailiff. Now what does the reader think
was the defence Mr. Serjeant Suax was instructed
to make to this action? If anything could deepen
the colour of the case, it was the defence. Why, the
whole burden of the defence was that the defendant
Shirr"( the bailiff was a poor man, and not able to
pay heavy damages!
Technically, it is true, the poor man Sunni,
the bailiff, was the defendant on the record, against
whom would, undoubtedly, issue the execution; but
who was "charged with oppression ? "—who was the
rii=P Does any one suppose that SMITH,
at, would have committed such an illegal
outrage without the authority of Surrit the master?
Yet we cannot help thinking that this sort of argu-
ment bad some weight with the jury; for i
they found a verdict for the plaintiff, they gave
201. as damages. Perhaps a jury of Essex far-
mers regarded this treatment of an outgoing tenant
so much as a matter of course, that they only thought
it necessary to compensate the widow for her broken
furniture, so overlooked her outraged feelings. The
public, however, and the yeomanry of England, will
understand this case. While the widow's husband
was living, he could vote at elections—could
shout by command at protection meetings; he
was a vassal as well as a tenant. And it is a
remarkable fact that " farmers' friends" have
always a strange antipathy to farmers' widows;
they have no notion of a loss of voting power because
justice to a deceased tenant demands that his widow
and children should be allowed to reap where he has
sown. We leave this case with the single remark,
that it furnishes another instance of the numerous
perils and hazards which beset the class of tenant-.
farmers, the agricultural capitalists, when they risk
their means in the cultivation of land without the
security of leases ; and of the high-handed way is
which the landowners are accustomed to deal with
their tenants.

THE announcement of the sale to a large amount
of French stock to Russia will probably be more
agreeable news to the directors of the Bank of Eng-
land than to speculators in the French funds. It is
pleasant to find our exported gold coming back so soon
to Western Europe; and as France would have leant
upon the fund at command in London,whatever sacrifioe
it might have cost her to make good the deficiency in
her own stock, a remittance to Paris under pre-
sent circumstances is tantamount to a remittance to

London. Were the operation repeated, the tendency
to panic that our money market has for some time
betrayed would be altogether counteracted.
Nothing has transpired to whence the propo-
sition first emanated. The Russian minister is said
to have made the first official step at Paris, but it is
one that resembles an answer to a question previously
put. We do not know whether Russia, threatened
with the fate of MID" and fearing that all its corn
and tallow might stiffen to gold, looked about for a
safety valve, and found a vent for the new flood of
wealth in the somewhat straightened circumstances
of our neighbour; or whether France, having
found it difficult to transact financial operations in
secret'', in England, sought a more diplomatic banker
than London holds, at St. Petersburgh. Until
history unravels this part of the mystery, it is
useless to speculate beyond the mere fact which is
given officially, and which, as we have said, has the
cheering tendency to lend confidence to our money-
market. We need no longer fret about the con-
dition of the Bank of Paris.

The hold which Russia by this measure obtains of
the French share market, has not escaped notice in
the city, and must tend to disincline adventurers to
invest in French stock, which is henceforth ob-
viously at the command of Russia. A more amusing
diplomatic coup has not for many years been at-
tempted by the Russian cabinet. Hitherto its
operations were confined to Germany, and all
its efforts went to enlist the smaller German
powers to league with it against France. The
intervention of Russia has been hitherto con-
fined to political arrangements. When the left
bank of the Rhine was ceded to France, Russia drew
up a plan for indemnifying the German princes who
loot territory, by parcelling oat amongst them the
lands of the free cities, and of the church on the right
bank of that river. In 1813 she marched her troops
in conjunction with those of the German powers, to
Paris. With law and with troops the Russian sove-
reigns were ever ready to interfere in the affairs of
the west, but this is their first appearance in the cha-
racter of money-lenders.
What a theme this 'superabundance of cash would
have proved to the orators in the recent debate, had
the bargain transpired earlier! How lucky the par-
ties interested were to have escaped the invectives of
the hon. member for Finsbury, and the more mis-
chievous protection of Mr. DISRAELI ! What a pity
to have robbed that well-informed applauder of the
policy of the eastern powers of the opportunity to
else a tribute to the good financial economy of the
Russian Czar, by the side of the monument he has
founded in praise of the Austrian Emperor's clemency !
We have no apprehension of this step being inter-
preted as an indication of a desire, on the part of
Russia, to contract more intimate political relations
with France than it has hitherto entertained. The
French nation has committed its leading men of all
parties to certain bold lines of policy to which, we
fear, Russia will not easily be brought to con-
sent. On the other hand, the secret penchant of
France is one that Russia herself could not safely
countenance, and which it would require more effi-
cient aid than the present remittance to enable France
to gratify. Were this step intended as a demonstra-
tion against Prussia, it would be equally ill ima-
gined. The Germans disagree on a thousand points.
Their governments squabble amongst themselves
and with their subjects. On topics connected
with their foreign relations generally, no two
German states are of one mind. There are,
however, two exceptions to this general disunion, and
they form points of strongly contrasting unanimity
—one is the all-prevailing hostility to Russia. To
strike this chord is to bid the Germanic people range
themselves under the banners of any leader who pro-
mises to guide them. The other is the equally wide-
spread hostility to France, which mused the national
feeling, in 1840, from the Oder to the Rhine, and
from the Baltic to the Alps. As one result of a con-
joined demonstration against Germany by Russia and
France, we might anticipate the union of the confede-
tion tinier an emperor or a dictator,

While the map of Enrol:wan polities premnts to
our view combinations based upon papAr
feeling like those we have enumerated, as
eannot but repeat our conviction that tie
sale of stock 1..71 !tussle is a purely financial ops
ration which the Oterests of both governments 14
deeply interested in tint seeing magnified into asy.
thing more. As such, it eminently adapted to re.
lieve the threatened pressure on the English moo„,
market, and, accordingly, we may anticipate a re.
laxation of that strict caution on the part of tap,.
talists that has threatened to enimp our . moque.
taring industry. We trust that theexperiment will
prove successful, and, in the event of a rapid export,.
tion of specie, to pay for corn, we hope both put,
may be able to repeat it.

All other topics of discussion in Paris on Thiv
were lost in the excitement and astonishment p.
duced by the announcement made in the official era:.
ing paper on Wednesday night that the Emperor of
Russia had purchased two millions sterling in the
French funds. Nothing could exceed the agithtke
which this news spread through all the financial hod
commercial interests. The Passage de l'Opeeh of
Wednesday night swarmed with speculators, and the
funds, which on Wednesday at the Bourse Were ee
low us 711.65 e., rose almost immediately nearly 1;
per cent.
The following is the account of the circumstances
attending this transaction as given by the Vet., a(
on Thursday :
The Emperor of Runia has just bought the greatest por.
tion of the Rentes of the Bank of France for a sum of fifty
millions. The agreement was drawn up, discussed, es.,
eluded, and signed yesterday by the governor of the bray
and by M. Kisselef, the Russian Chargé d'Affaires. The
sanction of the council of the hank was given to-dar at
meeting held for that purpose. Half an hour alter dii
was known the funds rose !f. 20e._

The following particulars of this transaction may,
we believe, be relied upon as exact :
On the 11th bdarcb, M. Kimelef, the Russian airtime! at
Paris, waited upon M. Ouicet, and communicated to him
despatch from M. de Nesselrode, in which the latter, adopt.
ing a wtftworded tone of language, expressed in the name
of the Emperor a certain sympathy for the difficulties France
might have to encounter, obliged, as she was, to provide her.
self wi:h corn from Odessa. To facilitate the countered
relations between the two countries, and to alleviate the
present difficulties of our situation, the Emperor offered to
purchase the French rentes deposited at the Bask, to the
amount of 60 millions of capital, ►t the average rate of the
day en which the despatch reached Peril. M. Guixot sent
fir the Minister of Finance, and placed him in communicatitt
with M. Kisselef, end afterwards with M. d'Argoot. The
latter gentleman refused to take the responsibility 00 himself,
and, that the negotiation might remain a secret, it was
entrusted to the members of the commission previously
appoint. :d to conclude the negotiations with the Bank of
Englan 1. The commission consisted of MM. J. Lefevre,
Hettinger, and After having discuesed all the
conditions of the agreement, they sold, at the current price
of the I Ith March, two millions of the five per cent. rents,
and 145.000 francs of the three per cent rentes. being Naive-
' lent to the capital of fifty millions. lilted been proposed that
five millions should be paid down at once, the Emperor was elm
to send immediately twenty-five millions in lingots. The re
maiming twenty millions were to be paid at short dates. The
bank preferred receiving the value in corn from Rains, fee
which it would contract. This proposition was accepted.
After acquitting her debt of twenty.five millions to England,
the bank will, therefore, still have twenty-five millions at he
command, to procure provisions of gram and this operatic,
being only effected with paper, it will in no wise increase the
monetary crisis.
. . _ . .

The National, however, takes the following view of
the possible or probable consequences of this pro.
ceeding :
• . . .

We give a statement, at the present moment, of the actual
advantages of this affair, and we point them out ea they us
given by its partisans. But we intend returning to the
subject, and estimating at their just value the admired'
which are so loudly proclaimed. But supposing that they
were ten fold what they are asserted to be, we demand, in tee
name of common scale, how such an act of blind imprudence
could have been committed. How could they, in the mom
state of our finances, and the critical situation of Europe
in general, place so powerful a means of action on our public
funds in the bands of the Emperor of Rani* i Officially to
announce that whenever he thinks fit, at a critical moment,
the Emperor Nicholas has it in his power to oppress our
credit with a weight of fifty millions ! Is it, then, so difficult
to forum+ one of those events which may shake the political
state of things in France, create dismay an the public miad,
and alarm amongst men of capital ? Is this difficult, whet
the King is past 74 ? Fancy, at such a moment, the Mfr.
ewe the Emperor can bring to bear upon the low state of
public securities, and the power he has to increase the evil'
It is in favour of such a friend that an establishment like rtes
bank has deprived itself of its relates, which it had so care-
tally preserved. Every one is aware of the hatred he feel'
for the revolution, and of the haughty disdain he manifesa
for our ideuand for our institutions. His insolence is sad
that he does not seek to conceal it. It was but a few months
since that he gave us a new proof of it by the confiscation of
Cracow. But, at beet, he could but attack us in his own do
mains ; he struck at us in our friendship, in our sympathy
for Poland ; we were beyond his reach ; he has now boo
placed in the very midst of our affairs; he has b..en given
footing at the Bourse ; he has been made master of ear
money-market ; for, in a critical moment, who can deny Ms
power of a man who can at any moment throw a capital of
fifty mil:ions on the Paris market ? We avow it frankly ;
such culpable want of foresight has struck us dumb. The
political state of Europe at the present day is most alarming;
Spain is going adrift between contending factions and a fear.
fel civil war; anarchy sways in Portugal ; Italy is in a tur-
bulent state; Switzerland is agitated; Prussia is under
the influence of the workings of new ideas rtes
most complicated questions have sprung up between Prance
and England, in Greece, at Constantinople, in Egypt, at
Tunis, and in the Mediterranean ; Austria is advancing her
armies towards Piedmont. There is not a single spot in
Europe whence war may not issue forth. We witness this
spectacle with the cancer of misery in our breast, and art-
mutated deficits in our finances. Next year a loan will
become indispensable; and that necessity will coincide pre-
cisely with those fearful difficulties which hem us in on every
side. And it is at such a moment that Nicholas holds oat
his hand to you! It Is at such a moment that he offers yos
fifty millions, and you accept them ! Who will believer
sudden a transformation? that he loves to.day what ha
detested yesterday ? that be has forsworn his principles? that
he no longer wishes to re-establish legitimacy any when..
that he shows indifference at the revolution? that ha
cares but little whether it triumphs or not in the Peninsula
and in Switzerland ? that he leaves Italy to the spirit of ',-
form e that he has given up all his plaza on Constantinople?
Oh the generous potentate who is suddenly converted be-
tween night and morning, and is struck all at once with pity
for the misery prevailing in France, and comes hastily for

ward to offer grain in exchange for' paper! This is sista
deed—this is devotion Can you suspect him of scam
from interested motives > You would be wrong to de a.
He had fifty millions which be did not know what Wes
with ; he found that the French funds were a geed ana►
ment, aud, instead of proceeding secretly and gad=
without noise, which would have demanded
time, he negotiated officially, by diplomatic Mai
with all the display of a mighty lord, who, it
the same time that he makes a good bread
ment of his money, wishes to render us a sigal
service. What folly to imagine that some political mo-
tive, some means of future action, lies hidden beneath No,
we must be convinced that all is fair and open, and look upon
this unexpected alliance with a feeling of perfect security!
We must neither be watchful nor suspicious; we must plies
our trust in Nicholas, mark our words, as the protector of
the rights of nations, and as the zealous defender of that
country which calls itself the revolution. Well! Let &ream-
plices say it and blind men believe it ; but !et men of seem
and courage look to it. We who write these harried lies
of the first impression it made upon us, we regard this of sir
as one of the most serious events that we have witnessed a
the last seventeen years. No one can foretell the caws
glances; a heavier blow was never aimed at the meal
strength of France. Our feelings, perhaps, lead as toe for,
but we cannot disguise our horror at the sight of the enemy,
and this aversion is increavd two-fold when we behold the
Cossack and the Bank simultaneously place their hands in
the hand of the man of Oand!
The committee of the Chamber to which the But
question was referred, has reported upon it. It will
be recollected that the object of the present project
of law was to enable the Bank of France, which Dos
cannot issue notes for less than 500 fr., to put in
circulation notes for half that amount, the purrs
being thereby to relieve the present =saute for
specie. While the measure was under &octagon, it
was proposed and advocated by the leading °eget'
of the government in the press that a still greet!
latitude should be given to the paper circulation, lea
that the Bank should be authorised to issue notes Is
low as 100 fr. It was understood meanwhile that
this extension of the paper circulation, so much ds•
sired by the commercial classes in Paris, wasopre
by a few leading and influential bankers in see
among whom were mentioned M. Goain and Hot'
finger. The result has been that the committee
have reported in favour of a paper issue as let
as 200 fr.
The Debats on Thursday devotes its leading article
to a severe criticism on this report, and reproduces
its arguments in favour of a much lower limit to the
bank-notes, and even goes so far as to propos! 01
issue of notes not payable on demand, but at wares
periods, bearing in the meanwhile interest.
There is, in short, a general movement among the
financial and commercial classes in favour of some mo-
dification of the currency which will relieve tbs
country from these occasional pressures aud embiu,
rassmenta which must always attend so ands***
circulating medium as silver coinage.
Reports continued to be received from various pule
of France, of disturbances proceeding from the dear
ness of provisions. In some places, however, Maier