The Express.
London, England, 1847-01-23 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY. EVENING, JANUARY 23, 1847,

Tn asury had • discretionary power, and if it should be
elearly proved to them that an accident had occurred which
hindered • vessel which left port at as sufficiently early
.period
to enable her to come here in time under ordinary dream-
stance., from arriving no or be ore the Ist ct Sep. ember, al-
lowance could be made by the Tn story if they were dis-
posed to exercise their discretion.
Mr. WILLIAMS said that the Chancellor of the En-
chequer seemed to think that by limiting the suspension of
the laws till September it would farce foreign countries to
send forward their sunpli.ts. He might rest assormi, how-
ever, that all available stores would be sent here without
delay.
Mr. LIDDELL watdd &Ter no opposition to the mea-
sures of the government. He thouelit they were about
to pursue a course which eras calculated to meet the
euserganey of the times, and for that reason they should
receive his support.
Mr. T. S. DeNC.OM BE not having heard the slightest
reason founded on common sense eesigned by any member of
her Majesty's government against the amendment, he should
give it his support.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that, having reigned to what had
been stated by hi, right him. friend the month r for Ports-
mouth (Mr. Boring) he had no hesitation in saying the
Treasury would be ready to do what had heen done or.
former oa-embalm; and in that case, if it mold b, clearly
shown that a Sei•el would have arrived on the lat of Sep-
tember but fur adverse winds, an eseepti an wa-ulal Ise made
in favour of tett+ vessel. (Hear, bear.) He could nut give
any pledge further than that. (lit-or.
Lord (1. BENTINCK thought an erroneous impression
had gone forth that we had lost the opportunity of i uporting
a ennsidembie qutantity of grain from America through the
obstacle offered by the navigation liws' and the present duty
of is. on corn ; and that France had gained a great
advantage over lus. If he were to throw out any sug-
gestion to his noble friend opposite (Lord J. Russell) it would
be to extend the principlo to he adopted, arid put British
ships on the ...IMP 1-00,111ir as foreign ships; as it was ne-
cessary that two-thirds of the men in British ships should he
British seamen, our vessels would labour under a great dis-
advantage; and he would AUggtst that the British shipowner
should be put on an equal rooting with the (reign ship-
owner, and that all such restrictions should be suspendod as
far IS casn n was concerned.
Mr. Duncan, Mr. bdaffatt, Mr. Ewart, and Mr. Brotherton,
supported the amendment.
Mr. MITCHELL replied.
The committee teen divided

For the amendment
Ageing it 188-138
The bill then went through committee; end, the house
having resumed, the report we.y hroucht up and egret d

USE OF SUGAR IN BREWERIES AND DISTIL-
LER I ES.—The boom having resolved itself into a committee
on the Customs and Exeiso Duties Acts,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he
now proposed to state the measure which it was the inten-
tion of the government to submit to the committee, w ith re-
ference to stager end melues. Fr •rn what took place last
night and the night before, it would seem that some misap-
prehension e•isted as to the measure about to be proposed ;
he certainly, however, did not expect that sneh would have
been the ease after what had been stated in the Queen's
speech. As to the suspension of the corn and navie,ation
lawn, it was proposed that it should be tem:retry, with re-
geed to the fir.t, because, after a protracted diseueion, the
question had been settled lest session, and the government
did not think it right to interfere with sue'.l u derision,
unless under very extraordinary circumstances • neither did
they think they were justified in doing more than to propose
a temporary suspension of the navigation laws. But with
reference to the subject which he was 11,W about to Ming
before the committee, he had promised last melon to bring
it forward early in the present emsion, and he therefore now
rose to propose a permanent measure. (Hear, hear.) A
measure had been passed lest .ession meteri illy effecting the
protection which before had existed with reference to colo-
nial auger. He promised at the close of last session that at
an early period he would bring the subject of the differential
duty on rum befiire the house. and he was now about to lay
before it the result of his considerations, and the measures
which he thought necessary. On every occasion that he ad-
vacated a reduction of differential duty on eager, it W. with
a view of benefiting the consumer and increasing the re-
venue; and in the measure he now proposed he had the
same double object in view. No person could be more coo-
einemd than lie of the general soundness of the doctrines of
free trade; but it wa. to Lorry th em mit to the extent
which some perimuadoicseed without inflicting eeriousinjury
on the revenue. His hen. friend (fir. Hume) talked of
putting an end to the timber duties. The revenue thrived
from timber was about 1,000,0001. a year, and would it be
easy to supply a deficiency to that amount ? The condition
of the country rendered a large amount of taxation necessary,
and it was impossible to do that except by levying a large
amount indirectly. Moreover, it was impossible to raise
that large amount of indirect taxation, exempt upon articles
consumed by the vest body of the people. He should b'
not a little &heroic.' if the house expected that the timber
duties would he melee .d. In the statement which was made
lest session, the house was informed that the prospect of
the revenue eat not quite as promising as it had been for
some time. Assuming the estimates of expenditure formed
by the right hon. geatle-um opposite, it was caleoleted that
there would be a delici• ney to the extent of 300,000/. or
400,0001. But up to the present time there was an increase
ofrevenue execisding their most sanguine expectations, and
the balance-sheet which was just prepared would show a
considerable increase. With respect to the Customs, there
was an iuceeree of revcnee en nll article, except tonic on
which the duty had been reduced. It was his especial duty
to look after the revenue, and he should not like to have it
reduced, but in the revere slats of the country, and
V helmet and parts of Scotland in particular, he weal ho
utterly unjustifi ible in looking to (hot object alone. (Hest,
hear.) If the measure he was about to propose had no other
effect than to show te the people of Ireland that every means
of alleviating the pressure upon them was token, and to
satisfy their own minds that they did all that hie in their
power to contribute to that object, these enn.iderations would
be sufficient te justify them in making a sacrifice of rev, nue.
The produce from tee excise considerably exceeded the esti-
mate of the right hon. genOeman opeleite. In all branches
of the excise, both in this couetry and in Ireland, there was
an increase of revenue. The incr awe' powers of enneump-
tion, indicated by Irland up to October. showed every ap-
pearance of increased prosperity and wealth. But since the
10th of October a change came over the revenue in that coun-
try. The excise duties in the last quarter had fallen off in
Ireland—the sure forerunner of what might he expected in
this countay, &elm there were siims of distress in England.
He had seen that a number of mills in Mancheeer were put
on short time. (Hear, hear.) The price of provisions was
high, and it would be contrary to all experience to
expect that, with high prices, and consequently a
diminished consumption of rhos • articles t •at coniributed
to the revenue there +fluid be a continuance of that pros-
perity and satisfactory condition of the revenue which they
enjoyed some veers back, and to which four years of good
harvests, nesisied, no dente, by judicious legislation, mainly
contributed. On the contrary, they had now high prices of
provisions, had harvest., and not the same degree of com-
mercial activity, no that it was not without reason that he
was careful about the revenue, and that, in determining be-
tween all parties, he could not silted to lose a large amount
of revenue. Weh regard to the present measure three re-
quests had been made: first, to permit sugar to be used in
breweries; secondly, to admit it in distilleries; and, thirdly,
to reduce the diffi recce between the customs duty on rum,
and the excise duty on British spirits. Ile would take these
different propoeitions one by one. First, with respect to the
use of Anger in breweries ; the reqnest was that the brewers
might he permitted to use sugar and runtimes in brewing.
To sugar there was no objection. As the law stood at pre-
sent, private brewers might use sugar in brewing. file
measure which he proposed to submit to the house was to
relieve the public brewer from the prohibition which pre-
vented him from the use of sneer. With respect to the
revenue it was matter of indifference whether sugar
or malt should he used in brewing. The duty on
a quarter of melt was 21s. Bd. The equivalent in
sugar of a quarter of malt was 180 lbs., the duty
on which was 225. 6d., so that if 180 lbs. of sugar
displaced a quarter of malt, the revenue on the whole would
be a gainer. But he did not himself believe that sugar
would displace malt, or that it would be the interest of the
brewer to brew from sugar alone, unless malt wns at an ex-
tmemant prier, and the price of sugar exceedingly low. His
opinion was that a certain quantity of sugar would be used
with wort made from malt. This would cheapen the process
of brewing, and considerably extend the use of sugar. To
whatever extent it contributed to cheapen the price of beer,
it would also contribute to the use of those articles used in
making it, se that the West Indian, the consumer, and the
grower of barley, would all find their account in the mea-
sure. Again it was found that there was great difficulty in
working up damaged barley, and in that respect also the use
of sugar would he beneficial, because it would facilitate the
working up of that description of barley without doing any
injury to the health of those who used it. Without going
into the argument of the malt tax, there was evil. nee to
show that it was paid by the consumer. Within the last few
weeks the price of barley and malt rose to a great extent, and
large brewers oat of London suspended their malting opera-
tions. A large meeting of the brewers was held in London,
and the result of their deliberations won to increase the Deice of
beer Id. per pot, unon which they recommenced their
malting operations. Thus it was clear that it was the price
paid by the conniunoe that enabled them to COMIII.IICO
working again. Now if they were allowed to use augur, they
would have substituted a portion of that article fur the high-
pricel malt. to make up the deficiency. And it was clear it
would not have Kenn advisable for them to raise the price to
the consumer. There were two points thus established the
payment of the malt tax by the consumer, and next, the see
vantage which the grower of barley end producer of malt ob-
tained by giving en increased consumption to his produce
without milting the price of his beverage to the consumer.
Even in ordinary times therehoe he thought the mesaure
would afford unalloyed benefit to all partles. nt the
present moment and with the present high price of molt, the
mated advantage would he derived from the use ne mugs r.
The present price of malt was 61*. He hearth it had T -
minced to ; and some persons in that house heft h•ld him
that it would be 90s. But taking the price at 84s. ; the cost
of malt without the duty, would be file. 61. The test of
1801 b of sugar, at 475. the cwt., would tos 7.55. 64. There
would. therefore. be an advantage in using sugar, to the ex-
tent of fie. In times of scarcity, the effect of the measure
would he to reduce the exnrbitant price of malt ; lint in ordi-
nary times there would he no competitienbetweee molt and
sneer. If he asnumel the price of malt to he three
Relines, or 61.., which was the price some years ego,
the price of the sugar, in oral" to compete with it, ehntild be
is low me 3.1, ditty paid, a price to which they had never
seen it reduced. The effect of the measure would also he to
enable the brewers to work up large quantities of m
haslsy, and, in this respect, it would have precisely the name
effect es the admission of foreign wonl had in causing Eng-
lish woo/ to be mixed up with it. He proposed to allow the

same drawback on exported beer made from sugar, that was
now allowed en exported beer made from malt. With re-
spect to inolaseee, he was nut prepared to allow its admission
into breweries, or its use in brewiur. There was no ex-
ample in their former legislation of the permission to use
molasses, though on more than one occasion the use of
sugar had been allowed. Its brewing qualities were far
greater in proportion to the duty paid than those of sugar.
The duty on moiler. was 51. 3d. The quantity of molaases
equivalent to a quarter of hurley was variously stated at
I 24' lbs., 262 lbs., and 303 Ito. But, assuming 262 to
' be the equivalent, in order that the rep nue might
not lose by the use of molars, it would be liens.
nary that the duty should be 9s. Bcl., instead of ss. 3d.
Therefore one of ten courses should be tahen-either
a duty of 9.. Bd. should be imposed on molasses or an
excise duty should he imposed equivalent to the alit-
remote between b.. 3d. and 9s. Bd. on the molasses used in
breweries; that was to say, 9s. Pd. must be the duty on
molames thus used. If 3031C0s of molasses was the equivalent
for • quarter of corn, the duty would be Bs. He therefore
thought that the inconveniences of allowing the use of mu-
lasses preponderated over the advantages. It would be mast
difficult to protect the interest of the revenue, if it was per-
mitted to be used, and he did not think it weal.' be any great
bans 'n to the Esat or West Indian proprietor. He believed it
I would be much more for their advantage if the introduction
of rum was facilitated. He now came to the question of dig-
ti 'erica As the law at present stood, sager might be used
in distilleries on the distiller giving notices to the Esci-e of
hie intention to distil from SLOW% But it was incumbent
that a certain interval shoot I elapse between the time of dies.
tilling from grain and distilling from sugar. He was not
allowed to mix them together-or to distil from both at the
same time. This P gulation was indispensable for the pro-
toction of the revenue. He believed ho would com-
mand the assent of the house to the assertion
that spirits was an article on which the maxi-
mum amount of revenue ought to be levied. (Hear,
hear.) They ought nor, however. to raise it to sash • point
as would encourage illicit distillation. The preeent. duty in
England of 7s. 10d. appeared to be a fair one, and it was of
essential importance that they should not suffer the revenue
to be diminisheul. Tim charge on spirits was taken at three
peri ids during the process of distillation, and the excise were
at liberty to take that charge which gave the highest amount
of duty. There were thus three tests, but if distillation from
sugar was allowed one of the teem would bala4,and the excite
officers said that in consequence of its absence it would be
impossoble to allow distillation from grain and surer together.
He did not believe this was material with respect to the con- I
sumption of sugar, because Mr. Hadley and Mr. Smiit
who were large distiller., declared in tho,r evidence
b..fore a committee of the HOW.) of Commons that it
would not he advantageous to use both together, as they did
not act together en fermentation. Th.• real objection to
the use of sugar in distillation was the amount
of the duty levied upon the sugar; that was the
real objection, and that he proposed to remove. He pro-
posed to allow the use of sugar, duty free. practically, in
distilleries, with the excep'ion that he must levy on sugar
used in distilleries an amount of duty equivalent to the duty
paid on malt. In England, spirits were distilled from a
mixture of various sorts of grain : two parts of malt: two
parts of oats, and eighteen parts of barley. Supposing that
these were the proportions, it was evident that the spirits
produced paid the amount of the spirit duty levied per gallon,
and also the duty paid pre, iously, on the two quarter', of
malt. Now, what he proposed, taking an equal quantity of
spirits produced from sugar, was, that the spirits produced
from sugar ahoul 1 pay the same spirit duty as spirits
distilled from corn, together with a duty equivalent to
the duty paid upon the malt used in distillation.
He proposed that the di-tiller should take his sugar from
the bonded warehouse, pay the duty upon it, and use it in
distillation ; and that, on paying the spirit duty, he should
have an allowance peoivalent to the difference between the
duty which he had paid upon the curer and that which ho
would have to pay upon malt. That allowance, according to I
the calculation. which had been adopted in previous acts, I
would be 14d. per cwt. An allowance of 12s. 10d. on the
quantity of spirit which was calculated to be produced from
1 cwt. of sugar would leave that spirit in this situation : it
would have been relieved from all the duty paid upon sugar,
and would have paid a duty equivalent to that which
had been previously paid upon malt. The distinc-
tion between the duty upon beer and that upon
spirits was this, that in the MSC of beer the duty was levied
on the raw material, namely, the malt, &r., whereas in the
case of spirits the duty was levied mainly on the spirit, a cer-
tain amount, nevertheless, being levied 4lione portion of the
raw material, namely, the melt. Eleven and-a-half gallons
of spirit being the amount which was calculated to be pro-
duced from one cwt. of sugar, 12s. pod. would he deducted
from the spirit-duty payable on that quantity. There would,
in fact, be a drawback of 12s. 104. upon eleven and-a-
half gallons of spirit, while the difference of duty between
different descriptions of sugar would be telt untouched.
Now, the present mice of barley was stated in one of the
price currents at 545. ; he believed that as much as 601. bad
I.cen paid. Taking sugar at 33s . and barley at 515., which
were the prices about a week ago, sugar would compete
with barley, and it would be a matter of indifference to the
distiller, whether he distilled from parley or sugar. Keep-
ing in view a series of years, he believed they might take
the average price of barley at 30s. In order to compete
with malted barley at 305., the price of sugar must be as
low as 18s. per cat. • and as 13s. was a lower price than
sugar had yet been reduced to, and es he did
not anticipate that it would reach so low a point in ordinary
times, he thought there would not he much, if any compe-
tition, between barley and sugar. When barley rose consi-
derably, sugar would come into competition wish it, but
competition depending on the relative prices of the two, it
was not likely that it would take place often. The value of
distillation from grain was, too, so much greater than that of
sugar that it would tend to prevent competition generally,
unless the price of barley should be lower on the average
than he anticipated. He did not propose to admit molasses
into distilleries, because of the opening which it would afford
for illicit distillation, while if moMasmi and sugar where mixed
it would be impossible to , istinguish between tne two. He
now came to the last point, sir., the duty on rum. Last year
the duty upon British spirit was 7s. 10d. that upon colonial
rum 9s. 4d., leaving a doffereece of Is. 13d. between the excise
duty on spirits, and the colonial duty on rum. More than
one attempt had been made to reduce the amount of the
differential duty, but the effort had always been successfully
resisted, partly by the distillers, and partly by the growers of
barley, and the producers of malt. One ground of resist-
ance was now removed, air., the protective duty on foreign
corn. The other grounds mainly relied upon were the
disadvantages to which distillers were subjected
by the enactments of the excise law, intended for
the protection of the revenue, and the outlay of capital nec-
essary to conform with the excise regulation requoring that
the duty should be paid before the article could come into
consumption. In the last session of parliament he had satis-
fied himself that the claim of the distillers, enthuse grounds,
would be fully satisfied by • differential duty of Is., and
therefore he at once pmpoxed,the reduction of the differential
duty to Is. The \Vest Indians had last year submitted
that the fair amount of the claim was 2,1., and the distillers
had stated their claim at Is. 41d., the whole of which latter
claim, with the exception of one penny, was
on account of the protective duties. On the one
hand two-pence was allowed, on the other Is. 41d,
was claimed, at the period to which he had referred.
It was impossible to deny that the distillers in this country
were subjected to certain disadvantages, though it was diffi-
cult to estimate them in money. After consulting expe-
rienced officers of the excise, he thought they bad made out
a probable claim to somewhere about 9d. or 10d. a gallon.
The only possible mode of settling the
.question was by a
sort of compromise between the conflicting parties; and
though he did not mean to deny that, as Chancellor of the
Exchequer, he was anxious not to sacrifice any more
revenue than he could help, yet he thought that,
upon the whole, the justice of the ease would be
met by reducing the differential duty from Is. to lid., and
levying upon colonial epirit • duty 6d. higher than that upon
British. Now he need not remind the house that the duty
was different in England, Ireland, and Scotland. What be
had said applied only to England, and he now came to the
question of the admission of rum into the two other countries.
The duty upon spirits of home manufacture was at present
in England, 7s. 10d.; in Scotland, 31. Bd.; in Ireland, 2s. 84.
The request of the West Indians was that they might be
allowed to introduce rum into Scotland and with . Ireland
the same difference as regarded British sprits that was
observed in England. He held in his hand a paper
stating the quantity of spirits of all kinds tensioned in the
three countries. From that document it appeared that there
had been an extraordinary diminution in the quantity of
rum consumed in Scotland since the beginning of the present
century. The amount about the commencement of that
period was 301,000 gallons; it had gradually declined until
on 184.5, the whole amount of colonial *pints consumed in
Scotland did not exceed 43,000 gallons. In Ireland the re-
duction had been still more extraordinary. So late aa 1809,
no lets than one million gallons of rum were introduced into
Ireland in one year ; soon afterwards the consumption de-
dined, and for the lam four or five years the quantity had
been about 12,000. It was very difficult to trace the cause
of this change, but he was; inclined to the opinion that it was
attributable, to a great extent, to a change in the taste of the
people. He thought that the fact which he had mentioned
would justify him in acceding to the request of the British
colonial producer by reducing the difference of duty in Scot-
land and in Ireland to what it was in England. The amount
of the duty in Scotland would be 4s. M., and in Ireland
3s. 2.d. He did not expect that there would be any great
increase in the consumption of rum, except in the seaport
town., but the attention would be attended with one benefit
both to the revenue and the consumer if it prevented the
use of a spurious article which was now passed off as rum.
(Hear, hear, hear.) No doubt it might be objected that
different mils of duty would afford facilities for smug-
I gling ; but, in order to obviate that objection, lie
proposed that ram transmittal by gen,- for example, from
Glasgow to London, should be passel from one bonded ware-
house to another, and pay duty on being taken out for con-
sumption. Now, as refunded revenue, he did not believe
that either gain or loss would arise from these change.,
60,0001 was the amount which he had expected to lose by the
reduction of 6d. upon rum last year; but the deficiency in the
rate of duty had been more than counterbalanced by
increased consumption. (Hear, hear.) In the three
months ending the sth of December, 1815, the quantity
of rum imported was 655,000 gallons; in the three corre-
sponding months of last year it was 789,000 gallons-an in.
crease of 134,000 gallons. The entire consumption of Ire-
land and Scotland was at present only about 26,000 gallons
in the year. Now the result' of these measures was altoge-
ther as follows: -Sugar duty paid was to be used in brew-
eries, sugar practically duty free was to be used in dis-
tilleries; a reduction of ftd. pee gallon was to be
made on the rum consumed an England, and the
duty, which was at present practically prohibitory in
Scotland and in Ireland was to he reduced to an extent
which would probably increase the consumption there to
a considerable amount, He certainly did hope that the
effect of what he proposed would be in soma degree to b • ring

down priors, by getting free a ea rtain quantity of corn for
human faod. The noble lord (Lord 11'. Hemlock) said that
the people of this country would not be induced to feed
upon barley bread. In o inary titan, perhaps, they world
not ; bnt he (the Chancellor of the F.aehequer) thought
that it barley could be made available, it would be a very
great blessing at the present period. The result which
he expected from these measures was, that they would tend
to prevent high prices of grain, ratter than to reduce
the price below the average. At least one-third of the corn
used in distillation was actually wao'rd, and to j revent that
waste was at least desirable. Distillation front grain was at
that moment to a great extent suspe deal, He had a letter
from an Irish distiller, dated the 14th of January. The
writer said that since the 19th of December the corn markets
of 11 s country had undergone great changes; lie prices of
all grain had risen to an excessive amount, and the distillers
had been obliged to stop working, and he further said he
had no doubt the distillers would use sugar nail
cool isses if env measure were introduced to enable
them to do so. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had
endeavoured to explain the policy of this measure, a perma-
nent one, but it woo impossible to deny that the present state
of circumstances afforded additional reasons for passing it,
mid at the same time rendered it desirable that it should be
pulsed with as little delay as was consistent with due deliber-
ation.—(Chriene)
The queition having been put,
Lord G. BENTINCK said, that notwithstanding the per-
fect mastery of his subject, which his right hon. tripod had
displayed, and notwithstanding the perspicuity and aimpli-
city with which he had explained the measures of the Rove, n-
raent.—(cheers),—leaving no one an excuse for pretending
that he could not understand them, he thought the house
would scarcely expect that be should he prepared at once to
enter into all these details. (Hear, hear.) At any rate the
propositions of her Majesty's ministers on that subject did
not incur the great objection which he had so often stated to
the remission of taxes which were paid, in his opinion, in great
part by the foreigner, in preference to the remiasion of other
taxes which were paid exclusively by British subjects. (Hear.)
He could not conceal from himself that this was a proposi-
tion to admit a different pro tuce into rivalship with the pro-
duce of the agriculturist of England; bat then. inasmuch as
it was not • question between foreign grain and home grown
corn, the proposition was not liable to the string objection
which might be raised upon that ground. Another reason,
also, why he was indisposed to object to the measure was,
that he did not believe it wu one calculated to diminish—
Indeed he rather thought it would tend to increase—the re-
venue of the state. That was a weighty consideration on
his mind. Whilst he heard from the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer a gloomy statement of the prospect of one portion
of the re venue, and of indifferent prospects both in our manu-
facturing district.' and in Ireland, it wax especially consoling
to himself, and his friends aroond him, to reflect that
those branches of the revenue with which the free-trailers
had not meddleal were on the increase, and that it was en-
tirely owing to what that party had not done that the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer did not come to the house that night
in the position of a bankrupt. (Loud Protectionist cheers.)
Having thus expressed his opinion of the proposal, he must
proceed to observe, that be believed it wax the wish of his
friends around him, to have more time to consider this
subject in many of its bearings, and that therefore bin
object in rising was, to ask the noble lord at the head of
the government, to pass the present as a temporary, rather
than as a permanent measure. It was the desire of those
with whom he acted to support the government, as far as
possible, in all their measures with refer, nee to Ireland ;
they were anxious that no obstacles should be thrown in the
way of government, in doing all they could do far the
relief of that country ; and he, therefore, trusted that the
noble lord would assent to pass this measure, without preju-
dice the one way or the other, as • temporary measure,
leaving it to the house at a later period of the mission, and
when the state of Ireland was more settled, to discuss and
deal with it sea permanent measure as they might then see
fit. (Hear, hear.) Ile must also add, that in permitting
sugar to be used in the place of barley, as proposed by the
right hon. baronet, he considered that they were adding
strength to the already strong claims of the agriculturalists
of England. for • remission of the duties upon
malt and hop'. (Renewed cries of " Hear, hear.")
The right hon. baronet had spoken of beer having risen in
price a penny a pot ; but he—(Lord G. Bentinek)—would
remind them that it only required a remission of theft duties
to reduce it a penny a pot. Re consented, however, as he
maid before, to the retsing of this measure as a temporary
enactment, and he trusted it was in that form only that it
was intended it should he passed, for, if attempted to be
made permanent, he and his friends around him must meet
it with unwilling though uncompromising hostily.
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN must say that he never had heard
a statement which had given him so much disappointment
as that of the Chancellor of the Exchequer that evening.
He had trusted that something would have been mid to
show that in effect this measure would meet the wishes of
those who desired to augment the supplies of grain in
Ireland. If, however, he understood the Chancellor of the
Exchequer aright, he held out no hope of any such result.
distilleries.

Mr. BANKES coincided with Lord George Bentinck in
strongly urging that this me-sure should only be passed as a
temporary enactment.
Mr. GOULBURN, at the close of last &union, had as-
waled to the colonial measures proposed by the government
upon the distinct understanding that the colonists should, in
their turn, receive the benefit of free competition. He re.
gaoled this measure, therefore, as an instalment of the debt
doe to the colonists; as a measure founded upon themu
which they bad passed last year, and proposed in
fulfilment of the pledges then recorder'. The nutement
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was so clear, and his view*
and principles had been so ably expensed, that it would only
weaken his statement were he to go into it further. He
agreed that exturcerated views had been taken be the colo-
nists of the probable effects of this measure on their inter-
ests : he agreed also that the revenue must be protected, and
he agreed to the propriety of excluding molasses from the
present ammreenent.
Mr. WODEHOUSE regarded the measure as one which
required very grave consideration.
Mr. HUME wished that the government would give some
intelligible reason why they would not allow brewers and
distillers to use molasses, the more especially since it ap-
peared to be understood that the admission of sugar to use
in breweries and distilleries would be productive of compara-
tively little benefit.
Mr. FINCH remonstrated against members, more parti-
cularly those representing agricultural districts, being called
upon to affirm such a proposition as this before they had
time to consult their constituents upon the matter.
Mr. BARCLAY hoped the noble lord would persevere in
the measure as proposed.
Lord G. BENTINCK said, that he had made his proposi-
tion to his noble friend opposite, on the distinct understanding
that both sides of the house had agreed upon a truce to poli-
tical hostilities, until the noble lord had settled the affairs of
Ireland. (Great laughter.) It was only as • temporary
measure to meet an emergency that such a proposition as this
could be admitted, without very grave and mature consider-
ation. He should have no objection to the bill remaining
in operation for a year. if the noble lord thought necessary.
Mr. P. BORTH WICK objected to a temporary measure.
Lord J. RUSSELL regretted that he must decline seced-
ing to the proposition of his noble friend. The noble lord
had, since the opening of the session, shown so much absence
of piety prejudice. and manifested so much feeling for the
distress of Ireland, that could he do so without any sacrifice
of public duty, could he do so by any other species of nevi-
flee, he would gladly accede to the noble lord's wishes; but
since the proposition had been made, to make this a tempo-
rary measure, leaving the government afterwards to bring it
forward in a permanent form,he had considered the preposit;on
as well an the time admitted. and was distinctly ofopinion that
he could not adopt it. Let him observe, in the first place,
that the government brought forward this measure, in any
case, with different views from three which actuated them
in proposing the measures which he hoped would juts the
house that evening, the measures respecting corn and the
navioation laws. As to these, the government had said at once
that it .11, not their intention, in proposing them, to imply
any dixturlienee or alteration of the corn duties or navigation
lawn beyond the ;teriod to which the proposal itself extended
With regard to 'the present measure, they would, if they
seceded to the proposal of his noble friend, be in a different
situation from that in which they stood in regard to the
other. to which allusion had been made. His right hon.
friend had stated, and it was the unalterable opinion of the
government, that this measure should in all its leading fea-
tures be adopted as a permanent measure. (Hear.) If then
they seceded to the proposal of his noble friend, every one
would know that the government did not mean to allow the
law to resume its original shape, hut that at some future
period of the session a measure would be brought in to render
permanent the principle announced by his right hon. friend,
and therefore his noble friend's object would he defeated, If
they were to postpone such • proposition for another year
it would, in his opinion, lead to even greater inconvenience.
(Hear, hear.) 111, re would be great disturbance of interests
without any security to the colonists that their products
would be admitted by the legislature of this country into
consumption in breweries or distilleries. If they were to
bring in a permanent measure, in April or May of the pre-
sent session, there would be, up to that time, all those
doubts, rumour., and apprehensions of parliament disagree.
log to the proposal, which were sure to give insecurity to any
trade with which parliament interfered. (Hear, hear.) He
was, therefore, obliged to come to the einclunion, that it was
better that parliament should at once decide, not with
such haste as should give his noble friend reasonable ground
for objection, but with as much haste an possible, whether the
present was to be a permanent or a temporary arrangement.
It was quite open to his noble friend to try the question on
any stage of the bill, by moving a clause providing that the
measure should he of only temporary 'peration. They
were all agreed as to the principle, the only difference being
as to time; and if the house decided with hi. noble friend,
that would be the decision of the house, and his noble friend
would have carried his proposition; but, if on the ether
hand, they agreed with the government that the measure
should be permanent, trade would suffer no dieturhanee;
while every person interested might make purchases on
account of brewers and distillers with safety. He did
not think that the question was one which was likely
to produce any great excitement in the counter,
although there were, no doubt, many persons connected
with agriculture who would think that their interests might
be affected. He thought that after consideration this opinion
would not be very strong or general, or that any serious ap-
prehensions might be anticipated ; and therefore he now no
grounds for the alteration proposed by his noble friend. He
came to this conclusion with some regret; because, with re-
spect both to his noble friend and thaw who acted with him,
government had every reason, not only to be satisfied, but
to be grateful, with regard to the course they had adopted
during the present session. (Hear, hear.)
Lord 0. BENTINCK had no desire to raise any excite-
ment throughout the country on this question ; but he should
certainly, at a later stage, take the sense of the house as to
whether the proposed measure should be temporary or per-
manent.. As to housing up the colonial interests, they bad

been pretty well hung up in the previous maims,
during the progms of the free trade measures, without
causing the then government or their free trade support re
much uneasiness. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. B. ESCOTT +id it appeeced that the noble lord op-
polite, and she noble lord at the heat of the government,
were to remain friends until the Irish question won settled,
and all difficulties smoothed away. Ulcer, hear.) The
nettle lord epposite her' let out another secret, from which it
appeared that the farmers were to be sold again. I.ast session
they had been promised all sorts of compensation, rensi-sion
of excise duties and repeal of the malt-tan; nay, during the
recess there had been some dinners connected with these
subj. eta, at which the noble lord was a cherished guest. A
friend near him (Mr. Eo,eott) reminded him that there was
now an anti-malt-tax leaeste. If there W.lll, he had never
been invited to join it. (Ironical ehei ro from the opposition.)
Whatever it was, the fanners were to be sold again, as, after
using the topic all the recess, the r.nble lonl now declined
peeping the government on the subject of the malt-tam
(Heir, hear.)
Lord G. BENTINCK—The friendship existing between
the noble lord at the head of the government and myself has
been of' many years deletion, and I trust it may continue for
many yearn longer. ( Louichei in train both aides of the house.)
For my noble friend's private, personal, and political honorer
I have the highest respeet—(cheers)—and for his cenaie-
tency also. (Loud opposition cheers.) While I think my
noble friend will give me ere dit for entering into no sham
bottle, I shall, whenever we differ in political principle inset
him in strong oppositi e's without any interruption of one
private friendship. (Hear, hear.) Ihe hon and learami
member for Winchester has said that I am at the head of am
anti-malt-tax I. ague. I shall enter into no discussion on that
subject, hut I can assure the hon. and learned gentleman be
may rent in the most perfect security that whatever league I
may belong to. unless I intend that that league should be
betrayed, I shall never invite him to become a member.
(Loud opposition cheers)
Mr. BROTH ERTON , who spoke in a low tone of voice,
was understood to deprecate the preeent measure as giving
encouragement and recognition to the intemperance of the
people.
Mr. ',ERRAND assist that the hon. and learned member
for Wineheeter wan the last man in the house who should
talk of selling the farmer. At his lust election the hon. and
learned gentleman matched into Winchester at the head of a
pr scession of fanners, and promised to light and die, if ne-
cessary, under the banner of protection. (A lough.) The
hots. and learned member subsequently. made a great speech
in its favour, and he (Mr. Ferrand) assisted him to correct it
p. evious to circulation among hi. constituents (Loud laugh-
ter.) The hon and learned member came into 011iner's shop,
in Pall-mall, and said to him (Mr. Fernand). e How did you
like my speech last night ?" He replied, " It is a great piece
n' oratory—(roars of laughter) —but I don't know how the
Winchester farmers will manage your long Lot in quotations "
(Continued laughter.) The speech was circulated at the
hon. and learned member's expense. Since then the hon.
and learned member had sold the farmers; and in his (Mr.
Ferrand's) opinion, any man who could so freely sell his con-
stituents, would make very little difficulty about selling him-
self. (Opposition cheers.)
Mr. B. ESCOTT said that on two distinct cecasions his
constituents, in very full meeting, expressed their entire ap.
prove' of his conduct respecting the corn-laws. (Hear, hear.)
The resolutions were then agreed to, and leave was given
to hrMg in the hill.
CORN AND NAVIGATION ACTS SUSPENSION
BILLS.—On the motion of Lord J. Ressatm, these two
bills were severally read a third time and passed.
LAW OF SETTLEMENT AND POOR LAW COM-
MISSION.—Lord J. RUSSELL, in rising to propose his
motion fora select committee on the law of settlement, en-
premed a hope that afterthe statement he was ahnut to make,
the hen. member for Dorset (Mr. Bankes), would not think
it necessary to press the amendment of which he had given
notee. It was his intention to include the operation of the
Peer law Removal .Setorlast session in the proposed inquiry,
and his motion would be that a select committee he appointed
to inquire into the operation of the Poor-law Removal Act
and the act of settlement of lest year, and to report thereon to
the house. If the hon. gentle van should afterwards think
it necessary, he should not object to move an instruction to the
committee that their attention be directed, in the first place,
to the operation of the Poor Removal Art; for he admitted,
I after the numerous complaints which had been made egainat
the act of last year, that it was most desirable that the imme-
diate attention of the committee should be turned to that
part of the subject, and that the very difficult question of the
late of settlement should be then considered. With regard
to the law of settlement itself (said the noble lord), I do not
wish on this oecnsion to offer a single observation upon it. It
ie. • subiect surrounded by difficulties, and it is impos-
sible for the house to arrive at any satisfactory decision upon
it, until persons of great experience in such matters, who
belong to different and distant parts of the country, shall
have been brought together and their opinions taken, and
thus the mean. shell have been obtained of probing all the
diffi,ultiea that pertain to the question. (Hear, hear.)
There eau he no subject of greater importance—for in a
great measure the well-being of the labouring classes &s-
-pends in the first place on the law by which they are to be
provided for in case of need, and secondly, the conditions as
to residence, whichshallgivethem the right t s such provision.
(Hear, hear.) I desire to take this opportunity, several
questions having been asked as to the course of the govern-
ment in regard to the investigation instituted last year, and
in respect to the poor-law commission itself, of to far satis-
fying those enquiries in to state what in the course of the
present assertion will be the proposal which her Majesty's go-
vernment may have to submit on these subjects. (litter,
hear I In the first place, with regard to those resolutions
passed by the committee which sat on the Andover Union, I
can state that it is not the intention of the govern-
ment to make any proposition, or take soy course
in the house in ref renee to those resolutions, unless
some other hon. member should think fit to make
a special motion on the subject. if any hen. memberahonkl,
hon ever, bring the question before the house, I shall hays
no difficulty, having closely looked into the evidence and
,considered the resolutions, In stating my opinions upon it.
We (the government), have, in dealing with the subject,
looked rather to the more general question, viz., what ought
to he our coulee as to the renewal of the poor-law remelts-
sion. (Hear, hear.) The hour in well aware the, accord-
ing to the last act, the powers of this commission are
continued until the end of the present year, or until
the end of the next session of parliament. Then
according to all prudence we ought to propose either
the renewal of the commission, or take some other course
Iduring the present session, to prevent any accident which
might arise from a short session, or the business of mai Lament
being hreueht to a close before any law on the subject
should be passed. In considering this subject of the con-
tinuance of the commission, we think, in the tint place, that
it is alnolutely necessary that there he somebody who shall
have control, and likewise the means of local inspection,
in respect to the adminstration of the poor-lo e. (Cheers.)
Whether under the 'system whirls formerly existed, and
wheh probably will never revive, or under the sneeze
established by the Poor-law Amendment Act, it is most de-
sirable that the abuses, oppression, neglect, and mid-ad-
ministration of the law which undoubtedly takes place in
particular districts, should be examined, corrected.
and exposed, (hear, hear) and it is impteeible
that that can be done so well and so effectu-
ally Le by means of some central control and inspec-
nen. But with regard to the wanner in which this
control is to be exercised, I have observed that of
late years there has been the greatest difficulty in exercising
it gr. etnally, and in a manner to give satisfaction to this
house and the country. (Hear. hear.) It has happened
(and I must confer*, it is • result which I did not expect when
the act first passed), that the management of the adminis-
tration of the law has been conttnually a subject of animad-
version and inquiry in this house, and numerous complaints
have been made with regard to the conduct of the boards.'
guarlians, the assistant commissioners, and even the com-
missioners themselves in their superintendence and corms.
lion of the grievances and abuses of which from time to
time complaint. have been mule. For my part—it may be
the result of partiality in my mind—hut my belief is, that
the comeniesioners have exercised their powers on all

osteasioes to the best of their judgment, and that they
are actuated by an earnest desire to serve the poor of this
country. (Hear, hear.) I believe, too, that their general
administration of the law has been founded upon sound
principles; hut I cannot say that in every instance which
has been brought under the notice of Parliament, there has
been that satisfactory conviction in the mind of parliament,
that their discretion has always been wisely exercised.
(Hrar, hear.) But I believe that this, in a great measure,
has been consequent upon the fact, that while the control was
placed in their hands, the duty of explaining their conduct
devolved upon others. First, you have one art of Offieeri
whose duty it is to examine into the complaints that may
he made, to obtain reports of the facts, to consider the
various circumstances of each case, and to come, according

to their knowledge and judgment, to a decision.' Then you
have another officer, a minister of the crown, who is called
upon to explain in this house what those recta and circum-
stances wore, what were the reasons that induced the decision ;
and finally, either to defend the conduct of the rommiosioners,
or if not, to put an end to all trust and confidence in their
administration on the part of the public. This has been
I proved. I think, to be an unsatisfactory mode of administra-
tion. I am sure the Secretary of State must hove often
wished that he could have been in a position to know all
the circumstances and grounds of the decision of the com-
missioners before he was called upon to defend it in this
house ; and the commissioners, on their port, must
in many cows have been anxi,ua to explain par-
ticular circumstance, which had weighed' with them,
but which, when the ease was bet ugbt for Ward in parlia-
ment, could not possibly have been within the knowledge of
the Secretary of State. With so much of inquiry as is insti-
tuted on the part of parliament, and so much necessity ft r
Gall explanation in eve-, case of alleged abuse, I think it ad
visible that the parties in whose hands this great control is
placed should be person, more immediately connected with
the House of Commons. (Hear, bear) Her Majesty's go-
vernment have therefore tome to the opinion that, for the
better administration of the Poer-law Amendment Act, it
is desirable that the superior board should be constituted
in a different manner. (Hear, hear.) And the manner in
which we propose to constitute it is this—that there should
be one per Yon at th o head of the board who should be styled
the president, and who should be eligible to sit in the House
of Commons. 1 Cheers.) I propose that there should be also
two secretaries, one of whom should be enabled to sit in the
House of Commons, and the other, as under the ordinary
law, not to have that power ; so that if it should so happen
that the president of the board should not hove a seat in the
house the secretary might he present, and be able to explain
and defend the conduct of the department. (Hear, hear.)
I most be understood as only now stating the general out-
line of the hill we pro. With respect to the general
rules, so they are ex/led, I posepropose that those general rules
which have been adopted by the authority of the present
commissioners, and haying been finally revised, should re-
main in tome until by some competent authority they shall
be abrogated and new general rules established in their

place. That authority would he vested in the first place in
the new board who should frame such rules hut which
should not have farce and effect until sanctioned by the
Queen in council. (Hear, hear.) We propose to separate
entirely the administration of the poor-low in Ireland from
that of the law in England. In the case of Ireland, we pro.
pose that there should be a president as in England—an
that there ',holds' be associated with him he chief secretary
and the Under-Secretary of the Lard-Lieutenant, and that
the Lord-Lieutenant in council should he required to
unction the general rules in the same way as the Queen
in council. This is a general outline ot the plan we
propose ; it will, hereafter, be embodied is aWI
and t übmitted to parliament, and if sanctioned, I hope the
administration of the Pour-law will be rendered more satis-
factory than it is ueder the existing system. The noble
lord concluded by moving for the appointment of the com-
mittee.
Mr. G. BANKES—If the question were left to him he
would rather abolish the Parr-law Removal Act altogether.
According to the npini •n of high legal authorities the act of
last year was a hardship instead of a boon to the poor. I
He entirely approved the noble lord's proposition fur the I
constitution of a board, having been long of opinion that
the poor of the country ought to have their representatives
in that house—(hear, hear) ; and he sincerely hoped that
the choice would fa:l upon men fit and competent to die-
charge the duties of that position diligently, effectively, and '
wish discretion.
Mr. HUME likewise expressed hie concurrence in the
scheme. He had been opposed to giving a scat in that
house to any member of the poor-law commission hut hay-
ing
since heroine convinced of its necessity, he should sup-
port the noble lord's proposition.
Mr. V. SMITH sad that on the motion before the house
for a select committee on the law of settlement, no one, not
even the noble lent himself, had said a word. lie thought
they were entitled to hear front the noble lord or the Home
Secretary their reasons for moving for such a committee, and
the course they intended should be pursued lief ore it.
Mr. PAKINGTON entirely agreed in the notle lord's
scheme for forming • poor-law commission, and thanked him
for the tone in which he mentioned it to the house.
S'r G. GIIEY sail, in answer to what had fallen from his
right hon. friend (Mr. V. Smith), he should have thought
tnat hie parliamentary experience would have taught him
the error of dictating to a committee of the house the course
they were to pursue, nor could he (Sir G. Grey) recommend
such a course. If the house placed him on the committee, I
he could only act as an individual member of it. All he
could pledge himself to would be, that he wool I more that
it be an instruotion to the committee that they should in-
quire into the operation of the Poor Removal Act, and
snake their report as speedily as possible. It would
be unreasonable after the complaints which had been made
against the Poor Removal Act if it were to be mixed 1
up with the general question of the law of settlement, and I
no opinion expressed u to its operation.
Mr. FERNAND said that when he heard the right bon.
baronet the Secretary for the Home Department answer the
question put to him this evening by the hon. member for
Montrose, he was inclined to believe that it wan the lase
secretary who spoke. Did the right hon. baronet, or did
the noble lord (J. Rouen), euppote that the people of this
country would be satisfied with the course they were pur-
suine, or did the hon. member fur Montrose consider that he
had done his duty to the country in withdrawing the motion
of which he had given notice ? Would that house and the
people of this country be satisfied to allow the government
and the sipporters of the late government to coalesce
to TOCIIC the poor-law commissioners from the punish-
ment which they did not hesitate themselves to award
to their subordinates in 1848 Had the people forgotten the
treatment received by Mr. Day and Mr. Parker ? Ile (Mr.
Ferrand) believed in the truth of a report which was abroad,
that the government had determined to shelter the poor-law
commisainneix from the exposure which a committee would
bring upon them, not beeaus • they were men of talent, but
hecausethey were connected with persons high in authority.
He warned the government that persons, both in the house
and out of it, could speak plainly if the house did
not perform its duty. Wu the n port of the
Andover committee to become mere waste paper?
Did nit that report state that the poor-law commissioners
hail Men guilty of a dereliction of duty, and oppressed
their subordinates? and was the house to prevent the ex-
posure that awaited them ? If the hon. member for Mon-
trose withdrew his motion, he (Mr. Ferrand) had a notice
for Thursday next which he would bring on at the first op-
portunity, and he should move for a committee to inquire
into the conduct of the poor-law commissioners in attmi-
nistering the law. He dared the government to refuse him
the committee. What had been their conduct for the last
twelve years? He (Mr. Ferrand) had been persecuted with
a malignity which was disgraceful to the men who bad been
guilty of it. He hoped the day was not distant when he
should meet them in a court of law, and vindicate his cha-
racter from the falsehoods which had been heaped upon him
Was it not justice to the poor that there should be
an inquiry into the conduct of the poor-law commissioners'
How many of the poor had been sicrifieed ! How many
had died of starvation or destroyed themselves rather than
come within the trammels of the poor-las orenutissionere ;
while their houses had been laid waste, and their furniture
sold at the biddine of these men! How many villages had
been turned into desolate wildernesses! And now the conduct
of these men was to be screened. In every town and every
'Wiese there was one feeling of execration agnins' the poor-
law commissioners. lie hoped the house would forgive him
if he alluded to the treatment he had received. In August
last, the evidence given before the Andover CO,MittoP was
published. Upon reading it, he published two letters in the
Times, and upon them Mr. Lewis commenced legal pre-
cerlings against him. When he wreee the letters, he did
it for the purpose of courting thou proceedings. On
24th November the role was made absolute in the Court
of Queen', Bench. In three or four days afterwards
he attended • public meeting in Leeds, and there
challenged Mr. Lewis and Sir J. Graham to go before a
Mrs., but they shrunk from the ordeal. He considered it to
be his duty on Wednestlcy last to move for certain returns
relating to the conduct of the poor-law commissioners in the
Keighley Union, and the right hon. baronet (Sir G. Ores.),
in the handsomest manner, granted them. Front them he
would prove that the poor-law commissioners had been
guilty of a dereliction of duty, and a fraud upon that house.
At two o'clock to-day his solicitor had received a letter from
the eolieitor of Mr. Lewis, stating that he had this day filed
the criminal information against him, This was clearly an
attempt to intimidate him, for they might have gone to 'trial
a month ago, but they held back till he appeared
here to do his duty. lie demanded, at the hand,
of those parties, thet they should not lose an hour in going
heroee a jury. If he did net come out of that
ordeal unscathed in honour, he would resign hie pent in that
house, and he demanded from those who were opposed to
him the same pledge.
Mr. ETWALL expressed his regret that the government
had not introduced some measure with regard to the p.m-
law, and expressed his intention at an eon's. opportunity of
bringing the report of the Andover c immittee before 'the
house.
Col. SIBTIIORP was triad to !hear that there was at last
some chance of getting rid of the poor-law commissioners.
Capt. PECHELL thought that considerable disappoint-
ment would ensue when it was known that the noble font
did not intend to take any summary mode of proceed rag
against the poor-law commissioners.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE said it was highly desirable that some-
thing should be done immediately. In the country at lame,
the meosure tended to create the mates* confusion, and to
put parties to the greatset passible expense. (Ilene, hear.)
Mr. RICE said the opinion was universal in his neigh-
tourhood, that the act could not he worked. He hoped this
committee would report very early, so that the house might I
legislate on the stiblect before Muter.
Mr. J. FIELDEN was understood to stay that the law of
butt session had been badly devised and oppressively carried
out.
Mr. DUNCOMBE thought that an enquiry into the law
of settlement necessarily involved the question of removal,
end therefore. that no separate instructions should he given
to the committee. It had been amid, that the law had worked
belly, but it had only done so where those who were in-
trested with is administration did not fulfil their duty.
Sir T. ACLAND thonght that it was unlikely that they
could come to a proper determinetion on this subject in one
night's debate. He woe of opinion that the original intro-
tione of the law were humane. But so great and so sudden
a change had been made in its administration, that the
guardians, with the best and most honourable intentions, had
not been able to act honestly towands the poor, or fairly
towards the.rate-pavers. . . _

Mr. ORIMSDITCH mid he must join in raising his voice
against the maintenance of an irempotsible body, continuing
to administer the poor-laws by their edicts from Sorrier et-
house.
Mr. BROTHERTON remarked that the Settlement Bill
of last session had been intended, and was so designed, to he
a humane measure, but he was free to admit that owing to
the contests which had ensued between different boards of
guardians throughout the cotintry, its provisions hni been
carried out with great hanhness.
Capt. HARRIS expressed his objections to the cuatinu-
!lnce of a central board.

Mr. ESCOTT thought if the memure proposed wa. e
fulfilment of the promise made by the government last
sex%ion.
Mr. VTLLIERS thought all the Val sprung out of the
law of settlement.

Mr. P. BORTFINVICK paid, that the great vice of the
Poor Law was, that it excluded the poor from all the eon-
itution al right.; of which they hooded as a nation. lie wished
t , know when the government would introduce their bill for
the amendracnt of the Poor Law?

... _
Fir G. GREY could not exactly state the time.
The house adjourned at half-past twelve o'clock.

INFLUX OF IRISR PAUPERS INTO ENGLAND.-
The effect of relieving them may be seen in the following
statement of the number of persons relieved casually in a
singly week in Liverpool, made at thi, last meeting of the
special vestry of that parish, held on Tuesday, the 19th of
January instant:
Monday, January 4, 796 cum, or 419 male•.
5a9 female,
Ina! children.

T0ta1......... —.20119
Tuesday, January 5, 810 sates, or 521 malts.

G. I (male..
—•- • -

204 i

Total ..... . 3237
Wrdoritday, Zan. 6, 1,123 esmea, nr 4,111 indlrldnala.
Thursday, Jan. 7, 1,310 cairn., or 4,692 individul:.
Fridar, Jan. 6, 1,292 exam, Or 5,426
Baturdar, Jan. 9, 1,931 emir; or 1,509 makes.
1,563 female.,
5,166 rhildiru.
Totil ...... ....22,691
or a mind total or 23,417 persons in tne.ia daya.
Liverpool Tines.