The Express.
London, England, 1853-06-18 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 18, 1853.

no• of relief to a description of property in which he ap-
peared to be much interested.
ks clause was then agreed to.
On clause 19, " Duties to be paid on the saccessor be-
musing entitled in possession, but in the case of outstanding
interests, en the determination thereof,"
Mr. WALPOLE said that this clause would be found so
oppressive that it could not and ought not to be carried into
effect. Ile would admit that there was nothing unreason-
able in placing the same duty on real and personal pro-
perty; but he believed that the clause would, to •
great latent, destroy that system of trysts in this
country which had been found so advantageous. The
objection gave rise to some discussion, and
Sir J. PAKINGTON moved that the Chairman report
progress, which was agreed to.
EXCISE DUTIES ON SPIRITS BILL.
On the motion for the third reading of this bill,
Mr. CONOLLY said that the bill seriously affected the
Interests of the people of Ireland, and as it could not be
properly discussed at that hour, he hoped the Chancellor of
the Exchequer would not press the third reading.
Mr. OROGAN supported the appeal.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not,
consistently with the state of the public business, agree to
the request for postponement.
Mr. CONOLLY opposed the increased duty as being
calculated to stimulate illicit distillation in the north-
western districts of Ireland. The hon. member concluded
by moving the adjournment of the debate.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER resisted
the adjournment, and said that the hon. member had himself
offered the best argument against his motion by entering into
the merits of the main question.
Mr. P. O'BRIEN thought that after Ant bad been done
already the measure should not be subjected to any further
opposition ; but as the question of drawback required con-
sideration, he hoped this stage of the bill would not be
pressed that evening.
Lord C. HAMILTON was against passing the third
reading until the government had stated by what improved
machinery they meant to prevent illicit distillation. (Hear,
hear.) He well remembered the social and moral evils
which arose from the former attempt to levy an increased
duty ; and he would particularly remind the right bon.
bgentleman that he had promised not to involve the consta-
ulary in the odium which might attend the collection of
the tax.

After a warm discussion,
Lord GALWAY suggested to the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer the propriety of adjourning the debate at once, as
he had seen enough of Irish members on occasions like this
to be satisfied that they would succeed in their object if
they determined to persevere.
For the adjournment
Against it
Lord NAAS opposed the third reading of the bill,
and moved the adjournment of the house, as he must be
told how and in what manner the constabulary force of
Ireland was to be employed in carrying out the provisions
of this bill.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would be
unable to tell until the experiment of this bill had been
tried, and he hoped the noble lord would withdraw his
opposition. To protest that this bill should not page until
the information asked was given, would be about as reason-
able as a man 'eying, "You shall not go into the water
anti/ you have learned to swim." ('‘ Hear," and
laughter.)
Mr. NAPIER was rather surprised to hear this declara-
tion of the right hon. gentleman, seeing that he had already
stated that the details for carrying out the Budget, which
of course included this bill, were quite ready. In a measure
like this, the means of collection should be ascertained as
early as possible, and it certainly was not unreasonable to
ask for delay to admit of that information being obtained.
(Hear, hear.)
Sir J. YOUNG did not think there was any reason
for loss of temper on this matter. Something that he
uid had been misinterpreted. It was stated that his right
hon. friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would state
the details of the plan of collection. (The right hon. gen-
tleman read an extract from the speech on the budget, to
the effect that the oonstabulary would be called on to give
their assistance in the collection of the revenue.) He had a
conversation with Sir Duncan Macgregor, who said he had
once been of opinion against a consolidation of the two
forces, but from representations made to him he had
yielded that opinion. The constabulary had extensive
local knowledge, knew every house, and the occupation of
the inmates, but they had never given any infor-
mation. All that was intended now to be done
was to bring the two forces a little together.
This was all, not to make the police spies. They wished
to go step by step. This was the first step, and if they
found it succeed they might go a little further. They had
acted most cautiously, and there was se call for the obser-
vations which had been made on the other side.
Col. DUNNE thought the proposed employment of the
constabulary would by no means make that force more po-
pular in Ireland. The right hon. gentleman (Mr. Glad-
stone) said they should not get the plan ; but they had got
it, and it was a very unwise one. They had got the opi-
nion of Sir Duncan Macgregor, but he was not so able to
form an opinion as the country gentlemen. He (Colonel
Dunne) objected to the plan, which made the measure
much worse.

Mr. V. SCULLY said if the constabulary were to be
used to collect the revenue in Ireland, the Irish people
should be entirely relieved from the charge of that force.
He quite concurred in the observation that the police
should not be used u spies; but when the opportunity
occurred, he should be prepared to prove that when gentle-
men opposite were in office, they did use the police as spies.
Mr. CONOLLY said in his county they were paying a
large sum for an extra number of police to keep the peace,
and now it appeared they were to be employed to collect
the revenue.

—Lordi:AUSSELL said the right hon. gentleman (Mr.
Napier) was particularly anxious to have the opinion of',
Sir Duncan Macgregor. Now be had got it ; and then it
was said his opinion was not as good as that of the country
gentlemen. He thought the right hon. gentleman could
hardly, after this, persist in his opposition. He must see
that any plan for the regulation of the police was a matter
of detail, and could not be considered in that house. If
the house would now agree to the third reading of this bill
—if there was may quaition with regard to wastage, they
could take that question afterwards ; but really, after the
two hours' discussion they had had, he thought they ought
to be allowed to take the third reading.
Mr. MAGAN thought the observation of the noble lord
a fair NW But he rose to allude to a subject which
diendiese this evening. (Uproarious laughter.)
Lard Niglieton for the exhibition that noble
lord lesitease of himself that evening in the House of
Lords. He was astonished at Lord Eglinton haring
made use of an &adroit signed by one of the greatest male-
factors in Ireland—a person whom he (Captain Mogan)
would undertake, if 6s. were plead at his disposal, out of
the Consolidated Fund, to induce to swear that black was
white. (Great Laughter.) All the other subscribers were
persona incapable of giving disinterested evidence, being
mere violent partisans. (Great Laughter.) The gallant
gentleman was proceeding to go into the whole de-
tails of the question, telling anecdotes illustrative of the
chaeasters of those persons; but cries of "Divide" and
" Question" led him to give way ; and
Lard C. HAMlLTOlCreturned to the point immediately
believe the house, but the hoses by this time (quarter past
2) had become exceedingly Impatient, and he did not obtain
a
nbiIIitiIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER declared
his maims to offer the house every information that was
pomade led it was out of the question to produce a detailed
Lied NAAS asked, thee, if the government would offer
this smoke any bill for the new regulation of the constabu-
lam?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—No.
Lord GALWAY implored the house at that hour to con-
sider Mr. Speaker. (Cheers from the English members.)
He entreated hon. gentlemen not to ask the house to divide
again. (Cheers, and cries of " Divide.")
Hon. gentlemen persisting, the house divided on the
question of adjournment:
For adjourning 2B
Against

The house accordingly proceeded; and on re-entering the
gallery, we found Lord C. Hamilton and Sir J. V. Shelley
oentsottas se to whether Lord Nw had been " factious."
Lord NAAS repudiated the idea of factiousness, amid
laughter ; and then again went into the question.
Mr. PHINN was not food of giving offence; but he
asked the noble lord if the conduct of Mr. Napier had not
conveyed a practical reproof to him, that hon. and learned
gentleman having desisted from an opposition not war-
ranted by the spirit of the house. (Loud cheers.)
J. Lord RUSSELL, at this point, said that nothing was
to be gained by continuing such discussions and such divi-
sions. Hon. gentlemen might succeed in stopping business,
but he doubted if they would not regret the impression they
produced that they were a factious opposition. (Cheers)
He would agree to an adjournment of the debate. (Cheers,
mingled with cries of " No, no," "Go on," " Go on for
ever.")

The SPEAKER then put the question (we do not know
by whom moved) that the debate should be adjourned; and
the ayes and noes being about equal there was another
&Thins.

For the sr:l,o%lll=mA
Against

Colonel DUNNE moved that the house do now adjourn.
Mr. R. MOORE was understood to support the motion,
and attempted to address the house, amidst great confu-
sion and cries of " Divide.".

Mr. BOWYER suggested that the machinery of the bill
should be suspended, and a 'separate measure for regulat-
ing it be introduced ; and that the bill be read a third
time, reserving the question of the machinery, and that of
the employment of the police.
Mr. MAGAN concurred in the suggestion.
After a few words from Mr. Coign/JAG
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
Mr. Conolly had absented himself when the bill was for-
mevly discussed. This measure was expected to come on
to-night, and the Succession Bill had gone off at 10
o'clock, could the hon. member have been in his place, or
bad be come in after midnight, fresh, and not exhausted, as
the rest of the house had been, and he now sought to
adopt the old plan of converting a minority into
a majority. But the rule of the house, and by
which alone the business of the house could be conducted,
was:that the minority should yield to the majority, and the
great question now was whether that rule should be main-
tained or not ? (Loud eheers.),.

After a few wosrds from Col:EIBT1IORT,
Col. KNOX said that after the lecture of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, he would say that the sneering and
taunting manner in which ho had received a reasonable re-
quest had caused the difficulty in which the house was now
plead.

Several other members spoke, and tho house divided on
the question of adjournment—
For the adjournment lB
Against it 94-76
The bill was ultimately read a third time, on the under-
standing that the discussion should be taken on the question
of Its passing.
NEW WRITS.
_ _

New writs were ordered for Durham and Peterborough,
vacant by the decision of election committees.
The house adjourned at half-put three o'clock.

glte Croregg•