The Express.
London, England, 1853-06-25 00:00:00

THESIRMIWBRIDOR AFFAIR.

The Rid of CARDIGAN, pursuant to notice, put a
question to her Majesty's government—vie. whether it
was their intention to prosecute the two Roman catholic
priests implicated in the riots at the last electiqn for Clare ?
And at the same time he moved that there he laid before
the house copies of the correspondence which lately took
plies between the prime minister and certain Roman
catholic gentlemen with reference to the resignation of
their offices. The noble lord, in introducing the subject,
stated that groat doubt existed in Ireland and is
this country as to the intentions of the present government
to protect protestantisen; and the course taken in regard
to this matter might appease much painful doubt. He ye-
hued to the decision given by Judge Perrin on the Six-
saile-bridge affair ; end be called upon the government to
take measures to define accurately the law under which the
military acted when called out to the aid of the civil power,
for if the law as laid down
be by Judge Perrin was acted upon,
the troops would inevitably placed on some future occa-
sion in a very palatal position. His opinion was that the
popish priests in question ought to be prosecuted ; and that
generally popish priests should be prevented wielding that
undue influence which they possessed. The noble lord then
adverted to Lord Aberdeen's letter to Mr. Monte!! : and he
asked witetber the country was to understand from
that letter that the true protestant principles expounded
by Lora John Russell were not generally shared
is by the cabinet. He thought that a neat blow
had been Riven to protestantism by the Canada Clergy
Reserve, Bill. In the course of his further very discon-
nected remarks, the cob!, Tort taunted Lord Aberdeen with
his ineonastency is this matter, the Premier, when first
interrogated as to the intentions of the government on the
subject, having promised that the priests would he prose-
cuted ; and he thought that as a committee of the }loupe of
Commons on the Clare election petition had emphatically
pronounced against the conduct of the priest., there ought
to be no longer any hesitation in prosecuting them.
The E Irl of ABERDEEN said that as another election
for Clare was on the eve of taking place, it was a point for
the consideration of noble lords opposite how far their
conduct en this motion would tend t i promote peace and
good order—(oh, oh)—bst at any rate ko trusted that
nothing would be said or dime of as inflammatory character,
and it might be satisfactoey M assure their lordahips that
every precaution had bees Mims by. the noble lord at the
head of her Majesty's goosmiennat in Ireland to preserve
good order. The ashes emi she bad just sat down appeared
to suppose that these hod bees mom reluctance to declare
the intentions of the ,__west oa the subject; but that
wee a maapprehmekm The matter stood now jut where
it was is Musk stns it was dieemerd in both houses, and
whoa the Memo of the mmerameat had been fully expressed.
The gemnemsot theM&elsred that it was not their inten-
tion to messed with the prosecution ; and that decision
had not Weak the Meet degree effected by the report re-
fund is of the tommiltee et the House of Commons.
With regaglito Ae eenemeotease which bad passed be,
trwee• timed mod oft& members of the governmtat in
the other Imam, be nut object to its production—not
because be desired comembment, for that correspondence
was already known to the noble earl and every member of
thoirlordshipe house—but because it would tend to esta-
Wish a most incsavesioat precedent to lay officially upon
the table of the bowie pivots and unollici.l communica-
tions which might have taken place between him and other
members of the government of which he had the honour to
be the head.
The Earl et Man comidered the
AMY had oliodod to, the predestics ertr=l.lll4

been merely moved for as a matter of form, wet the most I
extraordinary it had ever fallen to his lot to read.
It was a most extraordinary thing to etc time inemhers of
• government resigning tlleir otti.es on at•count e f leagues° I
held by the bead of the government in one house of parlat-
me 01, and the head of the government in VII
other house
repudiating and apologising for that langunge, and humbly
but successfully entreating these gentlem, it to withdrew
! their resignations. (liter, hear.) This was not an mill-
' nary, nor was it a creditable case. He rejoiced to And that
the government had at length given their reasons far not
prosecuting the two priests and the other rioters at the
Clare election.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said whatever might be
the end of this chscussion, there were one or two results
! connected with it which could not be but satisfactory to
himself and his colleagues. (Hear, hear.) For it would be
recollected that the noble earl who introdueed the motion
had entirely repudiated the motion which he made on a
farmer occasion, charging tho Attorney-Genres,' for Irc-
land with having so tae neglected his duty es to send up a
bill to the grand jury for the purpose of raising the ones-
lion of the truth or falsehood of the prosecution preferred
against the magistrate end soldiers. That was the
paramount gist of the complaint on the hauler occasion.
but now they had it admitted by tho noble e 'l who hr'
just sat down, that the course which was then eomplai .ed
of was the only course which the Attorney-Oeneral could
have taken.

The Earl of EGLINTON gill remained midi: the im-
pression that it was the bounden duty of the government to
prosecute these rioters ; and he thought it would have been
more satisfactory to Ireland if the determination of the late
government in that respect had been carried out by their
successors, (lieu, bear.)
' Lord CAMPBELL held the late Attorney• General in
the highest esteem both u a lawyer and gentleman, but at
the same tint.. he could not help thinking that the hon. anti
teamed gentleman male n mistake in the view which he
took of the ease of the soldiers. (Hear, hear.) It seemed
to him that the late Attorney-General, believing that there
was no evidence to support the finding of the coroner's in-
quisition, ought at once to bavo eat -end a nigle prosequi,
when the soldiers would have been :et frze from toe charge
and placed at liberty ; but, insteid of doing that. the At-'
torney-General applied to the Court of Queen's Bench to
quash the proceedings, which they had no power to do.
The Earl of CLANCARTY felt obligcd to the noble earl
for his motion. In the House of Commons another noble
lord had stated that ke bad no confidence in the ehurelit
Rome, but the noble earl opposite and others of him col-
leagues entertained a different opinion. If the preponder-
ance of the cabinet was in favour of the church of Rome
would there have been a sufficient advocacy of the Queen's
supremacy upon an attempt to impose the authority of the
Pape upon the catholics in Ireland ?
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said that the difference be-
tween the statement of the noble lord who had been re-
ferred to, in the other house, cad the noble earl was said to
be that the noble lord had no confidence in the church of
Rome, whilst it was stated that the noble earl at the head
of the government had express:Al a contrary opinion. Now,
without entering into the discussion of the question before
the house, he mutt say that no such position was maintained
by the one nor denied by the other. All that took
place was this : Certain gentlemen took offence at some
expressions of the noble lord in tho other house,
of parliament in assigning particular reasons, smog gst
others, for his objection to a motion then before the house;
and his noble friend at the head of the government had
stated to Blase gentlemen that he did not participate in all
the reasons assigned by the noble lord in the other house.
No question was raised of confidence, or no confidence in
the church of Rome. Whatever might be the feeling in
Ireland towards the present government, of this be was
confident that there was a general impression that the
law would be impartially and firmly maintained. (Hear,
hear.)
After a few words from Lord nEDESIDALI in support
of the motion,
The Earl of CARDIGAN briefly replied, and then with-
drew his motion.
The house adjourned at a quarter past nine.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FRIDAT, JUNE 24.
The 8 took the cha;r at 12 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following bill, were read a third time:—Forth and
Clyde Jutted** Railway; Great Southern and Western
Railway (Ireland) ; London and North-Western Railway
(Crewe to Shrewsbury); London and North-Western Rail-
way (Northampton, &c.) ; London and North-Western
Railway Oldham branch) ; London and North-Western
Railway (St. Albans, &c.); London and North-Western
Railway ; Stourbridgi. &c.) ; Manchester, Sheffield, and
Lineolnsh;re Railway (Barnsley) ; New Rete (Free) Bridge;
Orford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway (Batta-
lion of time, &c.) ; St. Margaret and S.. John the
Evangelist, Westminster, Vestries. The Warrington and
&Branham Junction Railway Bill was postponed till
Monday.
WEXFORD JUNCTION RAILWAY DILL.
Mr. GROGAN moved that the report on this bill be dice.
charged, and that the bill be re-committed to the former
cornmitte-.

S nue discussion ensued, which ended in the motion being
withdrawn.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
LEASING POWERS (IRELAND) BILL. .
The house went into committee upon this bill.
On clause 10." Improvement Covenants,"
Mr. NAPIER sad that the object of this clause was to
enable persons to take land on improving leases for a period
of silty-one years. The tenant was to reclaim a tenth of
the land within the Ant year, and one-tenth of the residue
in .very three years, so that after the whole had been la-
proved he would have thirty-one years' use of the land.
If, however, he made default the lessor might at once re-
enter and possess himself of the property, subject, however,
to fiir compensation for what had been done. The effect
of that clause would be to make the landlord pay the tenant
for violating his own contract. The right hon. gentleman
therefore moved the omission of the words in question.
Mr. KIRK said the ii'mtse involved the very prin-
ciple of the bill. If the words to which the right hon.
gentleman objected were removed, the whole a tenant had
done, would, in the event of his death or insolvency, be
taken by the hndlord.
Mr. M'MAIION suggested an addition to the clause pro-
viding for the means of assessing the amount of compensa-
tion. That he thought would remove Mr. Napier's objec-
tion.
Mr. NAPIER did not consider, however, that the hon.
amtlentan's proposal at all met the case.
Mr. V. SCULLY and Mr. CONOLLT supported the clause.
Yr. R 0538 MOORE suggested the wads 'Exempt in case
et wilful default." (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MAGUIRE considered that the clause as it stood
teal already more stringent in favour of the landlord than
of the tenant. If the word' which had been excepted against
were omitted the house would be sanctioning the grommet
set of robbery.
Mr. NAPIER would sot press his amendment now,
Re trusted that his objection would he met at the bringin
tip of the report. (Hear, hear.)
Col. DIJNI4E suggested that there might be such a thing
as collusion between the lector and: lessee to defraud the
remainder man. He thought that Mr. R. Moore's sug-
gestion was absolutely necessary. He regretted to see that
there were s) few Irish members premat, and that showed
the inconvenience of taking these matters in such an apex-
way. (Laughter.) He probated against the viol-
Citiof the government.
The clause., with some verbal alterations, were agreed to,
with the exception of clause 35, which was postponed.
The home then resumed.
The CHAIRMAN then reported the bill as amended,
ad the bill was ordered to be re-printed.
LANDLORD AND TENANT (IRELAND) BILL.
On the violinn for going into committee on this bill,

I merely intended to have legislatiot postponed, and that a
continuation bill for a year should le brought en.
I Hr. T. B. MACAt LAY then rose, which WAS the signal'
fur a general rush to Hats by hon. members who were
%rending about the door. The rigbt Ism. gentleman, who at
' first spoke in a low tone of voice, addressed the house nearly
as follows :—I shell vote for the see-ad leading of ibis bill.
The hon. member, a ho has just sat down, certainly cutlet
plead that he Las not information suffmieet to enable him to
•dge. He has made up his mind nu: only that the present
; I' is a bad one, but he has made up ho mind also even as to
em most mkute details as to the policy which he would re-
, commend. The bill which we pass, bait whit it may, ought
to he one large yet cautious step in a great progress. That
which we have a 11-eht to ask of the government is sot a
bill which shall leave whatever exists unchanged,
not a bill which shall make such a reform that no other re-
'..se may hereafter be necessary, tut a bill that shall in-
I 'see improvements end leavo us free to adopt other
uments. The Lill proaosed by my right hon. friend
; ''oes this. One reason that leads me to look on this bill
ore favourably than same other gentlemen fur whose evi-
-1 y and intentions I have the greeted respect is that the
.rts of the bill which to them seem the most important aro
• precisely those which to me seem the least important. Vs e
Lava heard much about the changes which it is pea/seem
; should Le made ire the home government. That the
r home government ought to bo constituted as per-
fect as possible, is perfectly true ; but I de con-
' ceive that the rights which are in dispute touching the
constitution of the home government am not by any means
the most important rights which we hive to decide. T; e
truth is that distance, as we all know, le3 on the mind as
objects act on the eye. A very small object near you locks
large but at a distance it appears very small. India is a
long way off, and the home government seems much more
important to us than Indian plain. We all of us know
something of the borne government. A nem must have
led a very sceuled life indeed who has not heard of the C 411•
vase for a directorship. He may not !maw or care what is
the difference between the semindar or the ryotywar
• syeteme—whether the inhjtets of the Nisi= be
bomerlan or liindoo—whether the dominions of theOuicowar
be in the east or west of India; but he is exceedingly in-
terested in the question who *hall be the person next
in elected to the dction. Many gentlemen have been
• obliged by the home government. Some may Lave been
disobliged; but all watch its operations, and therefore the
r proceedings of the home government excite much more
feeling than the government of India nself; and I must say
. the spirit in which the controversy on that subject has
, been carried on really seems to me to lave been diepropor-
timed to the magnitude of the subject. Fur what, after
; all, are the objections to this government? When we ceme
, to examine what has been said against it, when we come to
L examine any gentleman's plan, it always turns out that he
really does propose a plan which involves the principle of
I double government just as much as ihe present one. No
, !manna being would propose that the council should be
altogether in India, no human being would propose that a
dependency containing a larger population than
the British islands should be under an autho-
rity altogether distinct from Oat which governs
the rest of the British empire ; but on the other
I band, you have fur India a minister who comes in and
goer out with the other ministers, that is to say, he must
• come in and go out on grounds whirl have nothing to do
with the merits of his Indian edministration. In that sense
the Board of Control first began to exist in 1781. Ide not
believe that a single President of the Board of Control ever
took his place on account of his interest in Indian
subjects, and the minister for India boa gone
out on the question of cattolic emancipation, or

because he would not vote for the pain, and
penalties on Queen Caroline. A late minister went out on
the question of the militia, and t►e last President of the
Board of Control went out on the lactation of the budget.
They have all held office but a shut time. The average
time during which the Minister for India has held his
office baa been about two years and a half. Now, whoever
considers what is the nature of 'lndia, the vast extent, the
number of various subjects which fall under his attention,
the small quantity of attention which those subjects
generally receive from a public man whose pen-
liar duty it has not been to consider them before
he entered on his office, it seems necessarily to
follow that you must give to him some more permanent
body which shall advise him, whichshall toe certain degree

cheek him—that thing seems to be certainly allowed. No
person denies the necessity of having such a council, but if
you have such a council you have a double government.
(Hear, hear.) It seems to me the idlest thing in the world
to say it is double government if the crown ap.
points the minister, and the proprietors appoint the
council ; bat it is not double government if the
crown appoints both the minister and the council
Why, surely, lithe Governor-General holds by one autho:
rity, and the council is appointed by another, that is double
government to all intents and purposes ; and if the Govern or
has to shire the task of governing wit► the council then
you have divided responsibility, whether the majority of
the council be appointed by the government or the directors•
It is utterly impossible that you can give to any minister a
council of experienced men to advise sad restrain him—it
is impossible you can give to a minister such a council
without at the same time removing from that minister a
certain degree of responsibility. (Hear, hear.) It is im-
possible also that you can give such • council without
thereby causing considerably increased delay in transact-
ing the business of the department. These are the chief
evils of a double government, and these are
evils which you must prepare yourself to submit
to under any circumstances. I like the plan of the govern
-
meat, because it seems to me to give • better council to
assist the Governor-General than he had before, and I
think it an advantage that it should be smeller in numbers,
and also I like it because I think that on the whole it will
contain a greater amount of ability than it has at present.
I accept the bill, therefore, as an improvement, but it Is
not particularly because I think it an improvement that I
am anxious it should pass. I do not conceal from the
house that the master principle in my mind is that the beet
means should be taken fee governing India in India. One
gentleman tells us that the Board of Control governs India:
another says that it is not so, but that the directors have
all the authority. Now, I conceive that it would be very
inconsistent to say that either the Court of Directors or the
Board of Control exercises the chief authority. (Hear,
hear.) India is, and moat be always, governed in India.
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") That is • fundamental law
which we did not make, and which we cannot alter, but
which, being made, we should do our best to conform to,
in our whole course of policy, for while so vast an expanse

rif; -fits-1444Tc; caka of often rolls between London and Calcutta, India must be
the Tenants' Compensation Bill at twelve o'clock on Then. governed in India, and there only ; and, in spit* of all the
day next. improvements by which science shortens distance and
The house went into committee, Mr. Greene is thechair. brings remota places together, despatches cannot
Clauses 1 to 4 were agreed to without discussion,
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and obtained be .read in Loans until six weeks after they
leave to sit again on Mon lay next. hays been signed in Calcutta. (" Hear," and sheen.)
The house rose at four o'clock, and adjourned until Suppose them to be answered on the very day they arrive
six o'clock. six weeks more must elapse before the answer arrives at
The house resumed its sitting at six o'clock. its destination. But no despatch is answered on the same
CRIME AND OUTRAGE ACTS (IRELAND). day, it is early, indeed, when it is answered in the same
Mon
Oaday, the motion that the home at its rising do adjourn till
month, for, with a double government, whatenr may to
Mr. BUTT begged to call the attention of the house to its other merits or demerits, one of its evils unquestionably
the state in which the law relative to the possession of arms is that a despatch must be seen by a great number of per-
in Inland would be placed by the expiration of the Crime sons, many must know what it contains, and must have
and Outrage Act on the 30th of August; and to ask the
an opportunity of making their suggestions, so that when
Chief Secretary for Ireland whether it was the intention of
ministers to bring in a bill upon the subject during the you consider these things—which must inevitablyen ter
Present session. Ho beggol to remind hon. members that into your consideration, and when you add the dir
in the year 1816 the noble lord opposite (Lord I. Russell) tenet, you cannot come to any other confabs
had come down to the house and stated that the late Lord- than that when at last the despatch reaches Calcutta, it dose
Lieutenant of Ireland (who, in passing, he would say, had
governed Ireland most impartially) thought he should be te
meet the state of things then existing, but a sta of
not
able to dispense with an arms act. Accordingly, the noble things which had existed six months before. (Hear, hear.)
lord acted upon that view, but in the latter end of the year Now no country can be governed by instructions which
the state of Ireland had become so (cannily disirganised in take six months in arriving. Let us take the experience of
consequence, that the noble lord was obliged to obtain an oat own mono,. wia cana remember a July in which
act far more stringent than that with which be had die- .
pensed. Hme (Mr. Butt) had no desire to see a similar state the king congratulated parliament on the increasing pros-
of things again arise, and hence he had thought it his duty purity, and that before the following Christmas we were
to bring this matter bet .re the house and the government. within twenty-four hours of a state of barter. (Hear,
Lord PALMERSTON said that the matter to which the hear.) We also can remember an August when there
hon. gent!, man referred was one of great importance, and
had occupied, and still did occupy, the attention of her *Hal" a plasPeat of universal and profound peace,
Mejesty's ministers. All that he could say was that due and that in the next spring, from the Neva and
notice would be given to the house of the course which her the Vistula to the Bay of Biscay,. there was
Majesty'. government might think proper to pursue. nothing but war and insurrection. (Hear, hear.) Take
THE INDIA BILL.—ADJOURNED DEBATE. theP t time. If we had instructions drawn out for
The order for the day for resuming the debate on the
India Bill having been read, the direction of our foreign policy six months since, of what
Mr. J. D. FITZGERALD presented a petition complain- great use would they be in the juncture in which we now
ing, in a most elaborate manner, of the way in which the find ourselves? (Hear, hear.) It is therefore, I say,
Roman catholic soldiers of India ware tented with re- utterly impossible that India can ever be properly governed
speet to the maintenance of their priests. It prayed that
except
half the sum alloted for the established church, should in ,in India. The instructions that go then are very
•
evz•ry case be allowed for the support of the Roman catho- rarely precise instructions, but rather general expositions
lie clergy—the reason why. they only asked for halt being of the principles approved by the home authorities, whose
that whereas protestant ministers had meetly wives and function is rather to judge of the past than to give positive
children, they were " without those incumbrances." (A directions as to the future; and, even when the directions
laugh.) rte the motion of the hon. gentleman,. the en-
from— are most positive, it is always liga-
tion wasrred to the committee on Indian territories.p
plied that the local authorities are to review
Mr. HUME (who bad moved the adjournment of the
debate on the previous evening) then roes amid loud and circumstances as they exist when the instructions arrive, and
grarcries for Mr. Macaulay. With respect to the' bill, to use their own discretion. The whole history of India is
eollidered that nothing could have a greater tendency full of cases of this kind, but even within my own ezperi-
to
over then heads fora bi indefinite than t
pine "'Oed ng tiP et' a p leeropo istatieft ence I think I can illustrate the pmpoaition in a clear and
n, as w- sed
to Ito dose hy the measure. taw km) Aankt move satisfactory manner. During the time that I took a part in
ler She um-Zhu.", with the maaintaaging that it was the government of India, I can venture to ay that every

impertaat measure taken by that government, every matter
which history will hereafter mention, was adopted without
any authority from England. Further, I believe that
every one of those measures was regarded with disap-
' probation at borne, and yet not ono of them
was rescinded. Every one of them was allowed to
stand, the language of the home authorities being gene-
rally, " You have done wrong, but what you have done is
done, and we hope that no harm may r suit from it."
That was the cars with the great reform made in 183.5 by
Lord T wcedilale before his deperture in the matter of na-
tive education ; and another remarkable case was that of
the transit duties. On that occasion a reprimand came
I out—a severe reprimand—to the distinguished functionary
I who bore a chief part in the abolition of the transit duties
I but, nevertheless, they were abolished, and the individual
did not sutler fur his firmness. It eau the same in the
case of the act which established liberty of printing.
Several reprimands cause out to the lezislative council, bat
nevertheless the home authorities did not recommend us to
rescind the law. A similar result happened with the re-
form of (we did not catch the name). A reprimand came
out, but the new law was allowed to remain unaltered.
Here are four great instances, all taken from a short period
Minot more than a year and a quarter, which I think will
serve to convince the house that the constitution of the gc-
terntucht of India is of much more importance to the people
of that country then the constitution of the haute govern-
ment. (Hear, hear.) Without meaning in the least to
diminish the importance of the functions of the home go-
, vernment, I should be inclined to say that the met t im-
I portant of all functions are those of the Goveraorieieneral,
and I should further-say, that even leen depends upon the
character of the Governor-General than on the general cha-
racter and spirit of those services by which the administra-
ti..n of India is carried on. (Hear, hear.) The test by
which I am inclined tojudge this bill is, what is likely to be
its s if ct on the character and spirit of our Indian civil
service ? Is it likely to raise or to lower the character
of that distinguished body which furnishes India with
judges and collectors ? For without meeting the slightest
disrespect to the Court of Directors, I must say that, in my
opinion, three or four, or even six, incompetent directors
at the India House would cause far Ina evil to the people
of India than a single incompetent director inn district
where settlements are to be made between the government
and the cultivator. Many gentlemen who now hear me
are fully aware of the functions of a collector, but I have
been surprised to find many who are generally leen in-
formed, strangely ignorant as to the power and importance
of that officer. They seem to imagine that he is some-
thing like a commissioner of stamps and taxes in this
country, while the truth is, that in many parts of India,
he is the consul of a great province. (Hear, bear) The
district subject to him is a principality of about the size of
one of the tour provinces of Ireland, of Leiaster or Rem-
oter, and the population may probably consist of a million
of human being*, and in all that district there is not a
viii ige, there is not a single hut in which the difference
between a good and a bad collector may not make a diffe-
rence to the whole population, between happiness and
misery. (Hear, hear.) The difference between a good
and a bad collector on the people of such a
district is infinitely greater, thank God! than the
difference between the very beat and the very worn
government ever seen, or likely te be seen in England,
could be to the people of this country. I have been assured
by persons of good authority that you might read the cha-
racter of the collector in the eyes of the population in the
appearance of their fields and in the state of their houses
When you had a bad, incapable, or wrong-headed collector,
you would see the people broken-hearted, ;and Lie country
desolate. First the ornaments of the women went—those
ornaments on which the peasant lays up his little wealth.
Then oppression overcomes their proverbial fondness
for their native village, and V:ey begin to emi-
grate in thousands. The smiling village is replaced
by the wild jungle, and wild beasts lie down
in what had been the houses of human beings.
(Loud cheers.) But if he be succeeded by agood collector,
prosperity soon returns, the jungle gives place to fruitful
rice fields ; the tiger is chased back to the wilderness, and
the population joyfully seek their old home" again. Such
a power is scarcely exercised in any part of the world that
I know of as is possessed by that class of public function-
ries over the people of India, and if we could make the
best possible arrangement with regard to the home Revere-
ment we should be rendering very small service to those
millions of human beings whom we are bound to protect as
compared to the benefits we should confer on them by rais-
ing the average capacity of those who are to fill the civil
service. (Hear, hear.) Some gentlemen, for whose ability
I have • hirk respect, although I do not agree with their
views on this subject, think that the best mode of improv-
ing the government of India would be to throw open the
patronage alte gether. " Let the governor," they say,
have a choice, and there will be no want of ability where
there is freedom of choice." There is something cer-
tainly feasible in the theory that would allow the
governor; to employ able men when :he can find
them, but it is my firm opinion that the day upon
which the civil service of India ceases to be • clue
service will be the beginning of an age of jobbing
the most monstrous, the most extensive, and the most per-
nicious that has ever been seen in the civilised world.
(Hear, hear.) Should the change take place, every Go-
vetaor will carry out with him, or be soon followed by a
crowd of brothers, nephews, cousins, the eons of political
friends, and by political hangers-on. Every steamer coming
from the Red Sea will bring a passenger bearing letters
from some powerful man in England: all these people
will press for employment, and among those persons the
Governor-General will have the power of distributing
residencies, seats of judges, places of four or five thousand
a year, and this to men without the slightest knowledge of
the character of the natives, and of their habits, and with no
more of their language than enables him to :all for another
bottle of pale ale. (Laughter.) One will be sent to Gwa-
lior, another to Mysore, to rule the whole of that great
kingdom, which is not inferior to Scotland in extent, nor,
I believe, in population, with absolute power. How are
you to get a check for such a state of things ? Have you
been so successful in checking jobbery at your own door—
have you established such perfect purity at home, that you
feel confident you can select proper functionaries for dis-
tricts the very names of which you cannot pronounce?
(Cheers.) I believe mat firmly that this house, instead of
preserving India from taint by the plan I have indi-
cated, would itself soon be tainted by its adoption. (Hear,
hear.) I believe we should soon -se* the brother or
ether relative of some active member of this house, carrying
out a strong letter from the Prime Minister to the Gover-
nor General, and that that letter would be a bill of ex-
change on the revenues of India for value received in
parliamentary support at home. (Cheers and laughter.)
And that would be no new traffic, but only an old one re-
vived. We are not without experience, but, need only look
back to those lameatable and shameful years which fol-
lowed the first establishment of our power in Bengal. If
you look into any poet, essayist, or satirist of the time, you
will see to what a monstrous extent this system was carried
on. Looking the other day over a file of old news-
papers, with another object, I opened • paper
of the year 1771, and the first paragraph that caught my
eye was one stating that " Mr. So-and-So, who had gone
out only three yeses before, had just landed with 40,00 W."
(Laughter.) But it was not only that men went out and
returned thus rapidly enriched, but fortunes were made in
a still more extraordinary manner. Men took no office, but
simply put the governor-general to ransom, levying a tax
similar to what the Mabrattas called "chump," and oar
own border robbers, called " black mail." Respecting this
system, a tradition was in circulation when I resided in
Calcutta, which was circumstantially told and generally
believed. It was said that a man came to Lord
Clive during hie second administration with • very strong
letter from the minister in England. Lord Clive saw at
once that the man was utterly unfit for office, and that he
could do nothing bat harm if employed. Lord Clive,whose
manner is also traditionally preserved, said, " Well, chap,
how much do you want ?" The man, unaccustomed to such
plain speaking, replied that ho only hoped for a situation
in which his services might be useful to the Governor-
General. "Answer me," repeated his lordship, "how
much do you want—will 10,0001. do ?" The man, de-
lighted to hear of a sum greater than he hoped to ob-
tain by the most laborious service, was overjoyed,
and Lord Clive at once wrote an order for a
bus of rupees, saying, " Take that, and go back
in the ship in which you came, for you can do us no good
here." (Cheers and laughter.) Sach • proceeding may
seem strange, but I think it sou very creditable to Lord
Clive. In giving the money, he had of course to pillage
the people of Bengal; but if he had given the man an ap-
pointment they would have been pillaged and misgoverned
also. (Hear, hear.) Now against evils like this yott have
only one security, and that is, that the civil service be kept
close, the consequence of which will be that the Governor-
General will have to choose his servants out of a certain set
who are ready prepared to his hand. It is highly impro-
bable that any public man who goes out as Governor-General
will have very intimate friends or relations, while it will fre-
quently happen that he has not a single sue, and the con-
sequence will be that the most unscrupulous Governor-
General will dispense patronage better tinder the present
system than the purest could do under a system
which left his choice unfettered. Even the most
unscrupulous Governor-General, when he finds that
he cannot oblige his friends, relations, or political
followers, will think that the best thing he can do
will be to appoint men to do him credit, by making the
public service go on successfully. (Hear, hear.) That
excellent and invaluable man Lord William Bentinck said
on leaving India—" I have now been here seven years ; in
that time I have had the disposal of an immense mats of
lucrative patronage, and I have never but once in all that
time been able to do a single service to a single old English
friend." There was a place in the magistracy at Calcutta,
which was not strictly limited to the civil service, which his
lordship gave to an old northern friend in distress, and that
was the single instance he could recollect during his whole
seven years of office. (Hear, hear.) What a security then
is arch a system for the fair disposal of patronage, better
security than even the virtue of such a man as Lard William
Bentinck, although, surely, if ever man was to be
trusted, he was. (Hear, hear.) Wo are agreed
then upon this, that it is of the very highest im-
portance that the civil sevvice of India should be a
moat capable service, and we are also agreed that it must
be a close service. If that be the case, it follows necessa-
rily that we ought to watch with the utmost care the
mode of admission to the serviee, and, if possible, take such
measures as should make the service consist of picked men,
superior men, taken from the flower of the youth of Eng-
land. Now, it is because in my opinion the bill before us
does tend to produce that effect, that I feel earnestly defile.-
OUP it should pus, and pus without delay. (Hear, hear.)
My right hon. friend proposes that all pleas in the civil

service shall be given by public competition among those
young men who shall distinguish themselves in those studies
which constitute a liberal British education. That plan was
I think originally suggested by Lord Grenville, in a *perch
which, although I do not agree in all its positions, I should
recommend every gentlemen to read, far, I believe that
since the death of Mr. Burke, nothing wiser or more re-
markable was said upon the subject. That speech was
made in 1813, but nothing was done, and the subject delft
until 1833, and then my lamented friend, Lord Glenelg,
proposed in this house a plan, not exactly like the present,
but still one that would have introduced the principle of
competition. That plan was proposed twenty years
ago. I remember speaking en it in a house most
of whose members have since passed away, and
my opinion has always remained the same. The
bill was passed, but some difficulties were found in
carrying it out, and by another act, of which we have
reason to be ashamed, the patronage was turned back into
its old course. It is now proposed again to introduce this
principle of competition, and I do most earnestly entreat
this house to give it a fair trial. (Hear, hear.) It gave me
greet pleasure to know that the noble lord w' propoced
the amendment, is favourable to the general principle of
competition. I was glad, but I was not surprised, bacons*
it was what was to be expected from a young man of kis
ability, and recent academical experience. But I must say
that join in the surprise expressed by my lion. friend
the member fur Honiten, at the manner in which the
plan has been spoken of by a noblemrei who has presided
at the Dutra of Control, who has been Governor-General cf
India, a man of very distinguished ability both as an orator
and a statesmen. If I understand the opinions which have
been imputed to the noble lord he ;thinks that the profi-
ciency of a young man in those pursuits which constitute
a hheral education, is not only no indication that he is
likely in future life to make a distinguished figure, but that
it positively raises the presumption that he will in future
life be passed by those whom he has passed in the educa-
tional conteet. If I understand the noble lord,
his opinion is that a young man, distinguished
in such pursuits, is likely to turn out a bore and
a pedant, and a person unfit for the contests of
artiste life. Indeed, I believe the noble lord goes further,
and makes boxing and cricketing tests to be preferred to a
liberal education in choosing men for active service.
(" Hear," and a laugh.) It seems to me that there nee- r
was a feet better proved by an immense mass of evidence,
and by experience almost unvarying, than that the men
who distinguish themselves in youth &bore their contem-
poraries in academical competition, do almost always keep
to the end of their lives the start which they had obtained
at the beginning. (Hear.) The experience is, in fact, so
complete in the affirmative, that I should as soon expect to
hear a person deny that arsenic was poison, or that brandy
did not intoxicate, as to dispute the position. Take the
simplest test, one which we can apply at once. In our
library you have the university lists., Look at the honours
fore hundred yeses back, look at the senior optimes and
wranglers, and I will venture to say that for one senisn
(vitae, distinguished in future life, you will find twenty
wranglers. (Hear, hear.) Take the Oxford calendar, look
at the first class men, and compare them with an equal
number of third class men, and see who obtains the sue.
ma in future life. (Hear, hear.) But our whole
history is full of such instances, since the be-
ginning of parliamentary government. From Mon-
tague and St. John to Canning and Peel—and I need
not stop there to Lord Derby and my right hon. friend the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, and has it not always been
the case that men who bad been tint in the competition at
school, nand first in the competition of future life. (Heor,
hear.) Look at the first men in India itself. Wes not
Warren Hastings the first man at Westminster, and Mel-
calla the ablest civil servant in India the first at Eten ?
The most briliiant and remarkable man at Eton, the beat
man the aristocracy sent to India, Lord Wellesley, was slew
most distinguished at Oxford. (Hear, hear.) I must men-
tion—l can't refrain from mentioning—another Governor-
General, another distinguished nobleman, who, a few days
ago, made the speech to which I have been alluding. I
read lately in the " Music+ Cantabrigiensis" a very elegant
classical ode to which was awarded the gold medal, and
which was recited in the senate house. The subject was
the departure of the house of Braganca from Portugal, and
the young poet of 17 described in Horatian language the
departure of the last deszendants of an ancient line, and
the spirit of the national poet Camoens hovering over the
armamant that conveyed them to a new hemisphere. Need
I dd how much my pleasure was enhanced when
on running down the page I saw at the bottom the name of
the Hon. Edward Law, St. John's College. (Cheers and
laughter.) I mast confess that my pleasure was consider-
able when I sass that the name of Lord Ellenborough
might be added to the long list of those distinguished names
whose early youth shadowed forth the distinguished part
they were afterwards to play in public life. And I really
cannot but feel some concern and surprise that a nobleman
who had been distinguished in his youth by attention to
such studies, should in his mature years have descended to
use language respecting them which would better here be-
come Ensign Nett/tenon, or the officer in Swift's " Hamil-
ton's Hawn"—

Tour Novids and Plutarch& and Omen and stuff,
By George ! they don't signify this pinch of snuff.
To glre• young gentleman rtgot education
The army a the only good school In the nation.
And for the boxing—
Sly schoolmaster called me a dut cc and a fool.
But at cuffs I was always the cook of the school.

(Loud laughter.) But if the recollection of his own
academical triumphs did not restrain the noble lord from
using such language, he should have remembered that
among names of academical distinction woo that of that
strong-minded magistrate the late Lord Ellenborougb.
But the same coincideuce is borne out by all history
Beginning with Lord Mansfield, proceeding to Lord
Stowell, Lord Eldon, Sir Vicar y Gibbs, and coming down
to the late Lord Chief Justice Tyndal and Lcrd Lyndhurst,
we find that both at equity and common law academical
distinction has been the forerunner of forensic success. All
these men were senior wranglers. Baron Alderson was a
senior wrangler; so was Justice Meek- and Baron Parke,
a man most eminently distinguished at the university both
in classics and mathematics. Vice-Chancellor Parker was
a wrangler, and Mr. Justice Coleridge, one of the taost
eminent men at Oxford. Mr. Justice Erie was a high
wrangler, so were the three Vice-Chasteners ; and the
late Sir James Parke, my valuable and lamented
friend, was a distinguished wrangler. Can we believe
that all this has been the result of accident? (Heir,
hear.) Can we do other than believe that these men kept
through the life with which they began it. (Hear, hear.)
And it is no answer to this that we can point to two or
throe men, of great energy, who having Ineglected their
studies when young, subsequently retrieved hut time, and
passed those who had been before them. Of course such
exceptions are most desirable, and should serve as an
example to others, who having thrown away their yonthia
a life of pleasure, are inclined to throw away their man-
hood also in despair. But the g I rule is
this, that those men who have distinguished themselves
in cademical competition when young are tits, men who in
after life distinguish themselves in the competition of the
actual world. (Hear, bear.) Well, if this be so, I cannot
see the equity in refusing to India the advantage of this
test. Some gentlemen may say that, after all, this test ex-
tends only to intellectual cultivation, and character is as
important as intellectual power. I most readily admit that
it is as important, but unfortunately you have not quite
so certain a test of character an to morals as you have to
intellectual qualifications. But surely if you require that a
man should possess two qualifications, and that you have
not a decisive test for bath, your plan is to use all the teats you
have and leave as little as you can to chance. This argument
would seem to be unanswerable, unless some persons should
say that the circumstance of men being superior in acade-
mical acquisitions raised the presumption that they were
inferior in good sense and rectitude. But if that could be
shown, the consequence would go further than the throw-
ing out of this bill. It would go to the re-consi-
(tendon of our whole system of education, end
teach us that we should take away our boys
'from studies which have a deleterious effect upon their
character. There is one point more—but I am afraid I am
troubling the house at too great length—(loud cheers)—
there is one point more on which I am desirous of saying a
few words. Some very able judicial men who are as
strongly of opinion as myself as to the impor-
tance of an intellectual test for admission into
the Indian service, are yet of opinion that
this would be best managed, not by competi-
tion, but by having examinations of a high standard, and
rejecting those who failed. Now, all my experience end
observation lead me to believe that this is a complete mis-
take, and that the effect of competition is to keep up the
standard. In competition, every man struggles to do his hest,
and the consequence is, that without effort on the part of the
examiners the standard keeps itself up. The moment you
ask the examiner, not shall A or B succeed, but is A alone
competent, the question becomes different. The examiner
is unwilling to blast the prospects of a young man, and often
stains a point to let him in. That is the case even suppcsing
that the dispensers of patronage are left to the dictation of
their own minds, but that will not be so. You will have
solicitations of such a sort that it will be impossible to re-
sist. I speak of what I know and of what I have seen, in
more than one public office. When a minister is under
the painful necessity of pronouncing a young man
' unfit for the public service, the young man declares
that he will exert himself, that he will make
himself fit, and that if tried he will leave nothing undone.
The father comes with team in his eyes, the mother writes
the most pathetic letters, and in short I have seen public
men completely overcome, or at least painfully ember-
reseed, in a case of this kind. With a system of competi-
tion, nothing of that kind can occur. Nobody has the face
to say, " Your son bas beat my boy ; but you must say
that my boy is best." (Hear, hear.) Thus the system
of competition keepo the standard high, while the other
which I have mentioned has a tendency to lower it.
I hope it will not be supposed that, in anything I have said,
I intend in the smallest degree to reflect on the present
civil service in India. Some of the dearest and most valued
friends I have in the world belong to that service ; and for
the general spirit and character of that service I feel the
greatest respect. (Hear, hear.) I thick it wonderful that
a body of men, not picked, not chosen for merit, taken
merely at random, because one is the son of a director, be-
cause another is the nephew of a director, because another
is related to a person who had been of great use to a Presi-
dent of the Board of Control at an election great
laughter)—l think it wonderful that men, selected avow-
edly on the ground of favour, should have conducted them-
selves as they have, in such difficulties, and amidst such
temptations, with so much perseverance and uprightness.
(Hear, hear.) It is a glory to our country that
800 of the gentlemen of England, chosen thus at
random, should have conducted themselves in this way,
and should have displayed such probity. (Cheers.) But
that is no reason for not making the service better if we
can ' • and it is Impossible to deny that we have clear proof
that the service Is not quite in a satisfactory state. (Hear,

hear.) In such a body of men you must necessarily bat,.
a number of inferior men ; and there will be a certain, an,.
ber possessing superior powers ; but the great n.ajoriti win
be not very much above, nor very much below, the av
standard of ability. But in a body el SOO men, nut seltideg
by some test of ability, there will certainly be • considera-
ble number—say one-tenth or one-twentieth—who fall de-
cidedly blow the average. That is a proportion whiebyoa
can do with very well here in this country ; put do not
want all superior men at the Boerd of Trade or the Trea.
sury ; there is plenty of routine business to Ms done, which
a man of small ability may transact as well as Mr, pa
himself could have done. But the case is different
is the
ladian service. There you have SOO men ch age,' with the
happiness of 100 millions of their fellow eu'jects. And there
is not a single one of those upon whose eonsloet the lop.
pinoss of a great number of individuals may not depend
(Hear, hear.) It is impossible, to have one-ten:lt or ace
twentieth part of those ince:sob:o men without leading to
the sufferings of millions. (Hear, hear.) And lire is the
most defective point of our system. I quite agree with the
noble lord who moved the aiasiidment that the week point
is :he state of the system. (Ifs or, hear) All the
evidence leads to that conclusion. But p.rmit me to say this
cs no novelty—nothing unexpected ; for it was distwaly
dieted before the hill of 1832 passed. It ware *aid as fiat
time by a very able man—. You are opening the China
trade ; this will, in one sense, inflict a great evil on the
people of India, unlsss you alter the mode in which justice
is administered. There always will be ineopsiae msn is the
service: at present they settle to trail?, and y-ti have the
able men left tar the judicial and political bulimic
llf you abolish the trade, you will still hay., the same :a.
. capacity in the service ; but there will be no longer
the commercial offices to till, and you must send theca to
; the judicial department." And this prophecy has bees
strictly fulfilled—to the judiciol department they have
goue. The evidence before us leaves no doubt—old:ell/A
there are many able Lien in the judicial department—that
it is generally to that department that men derki. tit inability
and information are %eat. (Hear, hear.) And I do not
blame those who have taken tide course; far, *ring as it
would sound in the ear of an Englishman to soy that the
collection of taxes wits a more important thir.g thou the ad-
, iniuistration of justice, yet, practically, 1 do believe flat
the happiness of the people of India depends more on the
ability and probity of a collector of taxes than it does cu
that of a judge. What is the remedy for On, r Surely not
to strengthen the judicial deportment from this country....
not to pour out upon India, ns has been proposed, some
I scores of barristers from the back benches of the
I courts at Westminster. (Cheers and laughter.) The
reel remedy is to raise the character of the ace.
nice, and to take such int ..sures that it may
be in the highest degrse improbable that any men
who are really incapable, who are below par, sht,uld had
their way into the Service at all. (Cheers ) I believe the
I plan proposed by my right hon. friend will accomplish that
end : and it is on that ground chiefly that I give it try
most sincere and caer,ial support. One word mere.
(Hear, hoar.) It seems to me thst this plan will eff rd the
very best means that can be imagined for effecting an ob-
ject of which much has been said, which I have frequently
desired—l mean the admission of the natives of India to
a share in the higher orders of the civil service. (Cheers.)
Legally they are eligildc to: ti offices; practically none
have been admitted. (Hear, hear.) It is my belief that
there is not at the present moment in India one individual
whom it would have been a kindness to the active popula-
tion to place in the civil service. (Hear, hear,) I can con-
ceive nothing more th th iporet to the people of Indto than to
put natives, properly quelitied, into the civil service ; hat
what becomes of the advantage, if the native, be-
cause he is a native, is to be looked down
upon by all his European colleagues? (Hew, hear)
But of all things I can conceive nothing more injudicious
than wl-at is suggested by the hon. member fur Montrose,
that before we have admitted any natives t o the civil 'set-
vice at all, before a native has acted even as an assistant-
collector or an assistant-judge, we should take some native
and make him a member ti the council. (Hear' hear)
Under the system now proposed by the government, it will
depend on the natives themselves, and on them alone, at
what time they shall enter into the civil service. As seen
as any young native ef tlieinguished parts shall, by the
cultivation of English literature, have enabled himself to
become victorious in the competition with European can-
didates, he will then, in the most honourable manner, a; a
matter et right, and not as an eleemosynary donation. ob-
tain access to the civil service. (Cheers.) Then it will be
impossible for his European fellows to look down upon
him ; he will enter on the service on equal terms with
them, in the best and most honourable manner ; and is
this way, and this way alone, can the Objet bo attained
in a manner perfectly satisfactory. (Hear, hear)
A treble lord in another place (Lord Ellenborough)
has expressed the opinion that by encouraging the natives
to the study of the arts and the literature of Europe we are
preparing the way for the utter destruction of our rule in
India. This is rather a singular inconsistency. How is it
that the noble lord should think so slightly of classical edu-
cation when given to Europeans, and should anticipate such
different effects from it when given to Hindooa ?re says that
classical education given to an Englishman makes him a
twaddler, and unfit for active life ; hut give it to the Ilin-
doom, and such is its stimulating effect that the power of
Great Britain in that country, backed by an army of 200,000
men, will crumble into dust before their rising energies.
(Hear, hear.) I really cannot explain how it ia that
knowledge, which is power in one race, should be absolute
impotence in another. I can only say for myself, that I
entirely concur in the opinion that we ought not to seek to
secure or prolong our dominion by attempting to exclude
the natives of that country from a share in its government,
or by attempting to discourage them from entering into
competition with Europeans for the prizes of literature and
knowledge. (Hear, hear.) And I never will consent to
keep them ignorant in order to keep them manageable, or
to govern them •in ignorance in order to govern them
long. (Loud cheers )
Mr. BLACKETT declared himself opposed to a double
government as a despotism without its pow, r and energy,
arid as having all the feohleness and vacillation of the repre-
sentative sysiem, without the redeeming spirit of popular
government. The changes proposed in this obnoxious
system were ineffective, for one reason, among others, that
they imposed no check upon the Based of Control, and did
not provide for the position of India being brought periodi-
cally before parliament.
Lord JOCELYN supported the second reading of the
bill, because he was in favour of immediate legislation. He
hoped, however, that its objectionable qualities would be
remedied in committee.

Mr. OTWAY supported the amendment, on the ground
that the claims of India had not been 6ufficienly invest!.
gated, and that the bill wav altogether inefficient to meet
the evils already ascertained, which he described in vigorous
and Indignant terms.
Mr. ADDERLEY maintained that no real argument in
favour of the bill had been urged, either in or out of the
house. With regard to the amendment to which he gave
his support, he suggested that some words might be added
with advantage, by which a continuance bill might be in-
cluded in its objects.
Mr. It. D. MANGLES defended the Indian govern-
ment at great length.
Mr. F. VILLIERS moved the adjournment of the
debate.

Lsrd .1. RUSSELL would not offer any objection to the
motion for the adjournment, but hoped the debate would
close on Monday ni,cht. (Hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT did not see how they could bring the
discussion to a close on Monday, though he should be glad
if they could do so. He reminded the noble lord that go-
vernment were themselves responsible for forcing en the
discussion at a period when the pressure of other business
made it inconvenient.

The motion for adjourning the debate to Monday was
then agreed to.

RESIDENT,MAGISTRATES (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
PIMLICO IMPROVEMENT BILL.
This bill also passed through committee.
EVIDENCE AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
SOAP DUTIES BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
PARISI! VESTRIES BILL (No. 2.)

The bill passed through committee.
The house having resumed, the bill was ordered to bo
reported on Monday.
COMMON LODGING•HOUSES BILL.
This bill also passed through committee, and was ordered
to be reported on Monday.

ASSISTANT-JUDGE (MIDDLESEX SESSION.)
The house then went into committee, and a resolution on
which to found a bill was agreed to.
The house then resumed.
TYNEMOUTH WRIT.
_

.......
Sir B. HALL moved the further auepansion of the writ
for the borough of Tynemeuth till Monaay the 4th d..y of
July next.
Agreed to.
NEW WRIT.

On the motion of Sir G. BERIELEV a new writ was
ordered for the borough of Tralee, in the room of Mr. M.
O'Connell, deceased.
The house then adjourned at a quarter-put one o'clock.