The Express.
London, England, 1853-07-29 00:00:00

THE LATE SITTIRGS.

Mr. BROTllElailiimo:ecithattheh;use do now ad-
journ. lie might be allowed to soy that he had ■b•taiaed
from interfering to protest against tke long sittings which
had taken place lately, heenu-e he bad considered that he
might as well attempt to stop time as to prevent the house
sitting until an early hour in the morning. Ho had now
for the last 20 years endeavoured to bring the house to ob-
serve reasonable hours—(cheers)---sut it was now beyond
his strength. lie did hope, however, that next session some
measure would be adopted in order to prevent such long
sittings ; he should certainly he in favour of the adjourn-
ment at a more reasonable hour. If, however,
the resolution were come to be wr,uld recommend those
gentlemen who represented the (death estate to shut their
books at twelve o'clock and leave the house. They had
now sat fifteen hours and a half. It was possible. to sit for
twelve hours; but, when they came to fifteen or sixteen
hours, it was more than human nature could bear. (The
hon. member did not press his motion.)
ENTRY OF SEAMEN BILL.
The bill was read a third time and passed.
DUTIES ON HORSES LET FOR HIRE BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
HACKNEY CARRIAGE DUTIES BILL.

The house went into committee o; this bill.
Mr. LOWE brought up a clause, the effect of which he
stated would be, that wl.ereas at present for any number
of persons exceeding two only one .ixpence was chargeable
for the whole lot, this clause would make them liable to pay
sixpence each. A number of persons waited on his hon.
friend (Mr. Fitzroy) ou Monday, when this was promised
to them. Ile mentioned this in order that it might be
known that they bad not agreed to it in consequence of
what had occurred since.

Sir D. NORREYS asked Low it was, if this was not an
after-thought, that it was not menti•ned before.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said his
hats. friend (Mr. Fitzroy) was absent from ill health, but
the view of his hon. friend was that as the public was
likely to have a contest with these persons for some days,
it was most desirable that the views and demands of thows
who wire now endeavouring to practise on the public
should not be conceded—(cheers)—and the view of his hon.
friend was, that they (the house) should put themselves
entirely in the right—that everything that was rigi.t should
be done before they ex thittd a determination co: to ac-
cede to the demands which were made upon them. This
was not an after-thought in consequence of the occurrences
of the day, but his hots. friauti, on consideration, did think
that in strictness the clause wee required as a matter of jus-
tice ; but after this enactment no coneessiun,great or small,
would be acceded to. (Cheers.)
Sir J. V. SHELLEY could corroborate the statement that
I this was not an after thought. Ile was present when a de-
putation waited on his hon. friend, and the whole of %MI
which was now inserted in the clause was put before the
deputation, before the strike to.ds place. After what had
occurred out of doors, he sincerely hoped her Majesty's
government would not give way. (Cheers.) As a metro.-
politan member, he was very anxious to meet any just de-
mand which the cab proprietors might have, but the die-
eumstances in which they now appeared before the house
wire very materially altered by the course they had
pursued. Ile thought the dignified course to pursue now
was to look on these men as entirely out of court, and then
let them go on the stamls agtain ; and then if they peti-
tioned the house for the redress of any grivance parliament
would be disposed to meet them.
. _ _

Mr. SPOCINHIL quite agreed with the right hon. gentle-
man (Mr. Gladstone) as to the question of justice. lie was
not one of those who thought they ought to have fixed the
fares without evidence as to what the fares should
be. His opinion was that it was not just to re-
quire them to go for a sixpenny fare at all.
It was impossible for a man to get a fair profit, to live
out of such a charge. The argument was, that they would
' have so many more fares ; that was a very good argument
when they were dealing with machinery, but here there
was an additional horse to find, and the expense of carry-
ing more fares would ba very much in ratio to the amount
received. Another clause which he thought would be per-
' fectly just, was a clause providing that there should be no
sixpenny fare—(" No, no," and " hear, hear")—but a fare
of Is. for all distances under two milce. Sixpence was too
little for the accommodation provided.
. _

Mr. GROGAN said it wax a misfortune arising from the
baste with which the clause was brought in that many hon.
gentleman did not understand it. As he' understood the
matter, in every case in which more than two perams were
conveyed there was to be sixpence for each additional per-
son. lie did not object to the extra sixpence ; but was
there any limit as to number ?
Mr. LOWE said the cabs were licensed to carry two,
but were not limited to that slumber.

Mr. FItEWEN thought that if the proposed alteration
were made then the huuge would be in fact submitting to
the cab proprietors. (Eleer' bear.) It was notorious that
it was not the small but the lar.;e proprietors who had set the
whole thing a-going. Many small proprietors would bring
their cabs to the stand were it not for opposition. (Hear,
hear.) Ile hoped the quegion would be postponed uati-
the cabs had been brought out again; after which, he had
no doubt the government wined entertain any reasonable
proposal to modify the existing law.
Mr. MAGUIRE hoped the government would do some-
thing to prevent cab proprietors from again combining
again,t the public. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. GARDNER thought that the regulation of cab fares
in London should be left to the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, in the same manner as in Dublin it was
left to the Lord Lieutenant and the Recorder.

Mr. F. SCULLY wished to know whether the 6d. extra
was to be for the whole distance, or for each mile ?
Mr. LOWE—For the whole distance,
Mr. O'BRIEN said that if the Irish cab proprietors had
acted as the London proprietors had done they would have
being called revalutionists. (Hear, hear.) Ile called upon
the government not to submit to clamour. The only
grievance under which the proprietors laboured had
respect to back fares ; and he was sure that if they came to
the: Under Secretary of State fur the Home Drpartmeet,
they would be met by him in a proper spirit. (Hear.)
Mr. LOCKE agreed, with the hon. member for North
Warwickshire that justice should be done notwithstanding
what had passed. (lieu, hear.) Ile did not believe the
existing scale of fares was ono which was calculated to
alf.ud a fair remuneration, and he entertained a strong
opinion that before such a large reduction was made the
cab proprietors should have been heard before a committee,
Lord D. STUART lamented the clamour on this subject
as much as any one, and had no doubt.that those who
would ultimately suffer the greatest loss were those who had
originated the present strife. Ile thought the cab pro-
prietors were ill advised in taking the comae that they had
done ; but. on the other hand, he must remind the house
that they had brought all this inconvenience and annoy-
ance on themselves and the public by the haste with which
they bad hurried on the bill, and by refusing a com-
mittee of inquiry. Had a committee been appointed. all the
details would have been properly examined. He had never
entered on the question of fares. His opposition to the
bill had reference to appeal, the granting and withholding
of licenses, and other matters of that kind.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sell the
house had not then under its consideration the question of
the existing flres. He must remark, however, that if the
legislation with regard to sixpenny fares were reversed, he
should beg to withdraw his proposal with regard to the
remission of six or eight ar.d twenty thousand • year.
(Rear, hear.) Ile understood that the deputation which
went to the llome Department had net preened for that.
They must all feel that it was exceedingly desirable that
the pleura state of things should be brought to an ends

locussion should be carried on with some referesee
thr
and
that o yet. The general feeling of the house appeared in
10 tt ng
the dame ; se with th view ofutti
r
• ti the etate of thiugs out of doors ite would be much
e to adopt the dewy than to enter into general diequi-
'', who had been right or who bad been wrong.
tilleitiAN said the ezplanation given to him by the
tit: member for Kidderminster was by no means sattsfac-
t t?. •
W'ien a cab was 'envied to carry two penotes it
▪ wit to be allowed to carry more; that wou.d be unjust
proprietors of other !thieve, who were heavily hued
1;1 any excess. lle should more that the chairman report
▪ le P. hoped his hon. friend would not persist in
k.am: minuet. it the claims were not rightly worded it
a iht he amended ou the report.
ste. V. SCULLY erid the whole matter wit one which
ee.ved aerest constitutional principle (Laughter.) What
bare 14.• a said in London if there had been a similar
lava nest of ibiblin cabmen ? (neer. hear.) It was a
sey les b t t rebeluld, and
done it won as fotheirr the
par gotvetornmputent
*e
g ben. lir remembered a cab rebellion in his own
e,g,,try, which was put down in a very summary
m,seer ; and the people of Ireland should nut he
e'oesed to hear of a different course being pur-
mil where the legislature met. It was an ripper.
tux, that might not occur again, for giving
whet free trade in cabs. (Hear, hear.) They
meet let cab proprietors register themselves at whetter, r
ptoes they li:eased. Ile did not see why there should not
be humbler vehicles at 2d. a mile, as well as others at tiel.
er r I. tot the higher el
Mr JAMES M'Ci RIGOR raid that the complaints that
he hal hosed were nut 'gaunt the 6d. per mile fur short
taros, bat againo 6.1. per mile fur longer distances.
Mr. WALPOLE remarked that the cab proprietors were
very much in the wrung, and perhaps the house was a little
L-t then. then, tie the Chancellor of the Exchequer
had 341ti§etl, first put themselves quite right. (Hear, hear.)
They had bees advised to leave the matter to the executive
tritcremeat. They could not do so; while they had an
se of poliament tiny meet adhere to it; and therefore he
ejeoeil them to agree to these amendments. (Hem, hear.)
Mr. tit:Of:AN pernsted in hie objection.
sir J. SHELLEY said that the cab deputation had ea-
preoel themselves quite satisfied with the new clauses as
far as they went ; bat they said they would not be satisfied
sale., they were allowed a shilling for the first mile. (Oh !)
Mr. Plt EWEN suggested that the clauses be printed and
eleoneil at the bringing ng of the report.
The question that the clause be read a second time was
mita put, and Mr. Grogan resisting the motion, the com-
mittee divided—
Foe the second reading
Against it
The manse was then amended, by the substitution of
"carried thereby," fur "riding inside," and "drawn by
me h dec." fir " licensed to easy two persens."
Mr. MACARTN EY denounced the proceeding, as alto-
gether hmty and iiijia.licous, and euggested that the
chases shoved be now priuted, and the debate ad-
jointed till this day at 12. They might then cone to a
mend decisem.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUER—Unfortu-
se( ly the business is hard for twelve ; but the hot. gentle-
men can renew shed:email in at another stage.
Mr. MAGAN—I Omit know whether we should come to
a elan,' decision," but the hen. gentleman (Mr. !Oscan-
Rey) his past awakened from a sound seep. (Laughter.)
The clime would do a great injury to cabmen' because if
Lear persons wanted to go mile, they might Ins distributed
is three cabs for toe eight-en peace. (Much laughter.)
The clause was then agreed to.
Mr. LOWE next brought up another clause, giving Is.
sale or part of a mile beyond a radius of four miles from
Char:as-cross, when the cab should be discharged beyond
the circumference of the four mile circle.
Mr. EREWEN seed that, if they measured it either
fro:a the lost-othee or Chariug-eross, the circle would not
reach is the one cam beyond Eaton-square, or the Tower
Harden in the other.
per I). NORREYS remarked, that if they took the Poet-
'Mee, they would ineude in the circle the inhabited part
el haw or Peckham and the Isle of Dore—(laughter)—and
sot the populous parts of Bayswater. He suggested that
the measurement should be from St. Clement's Church.
Mr. A. PULLATT moved, instead of four milts, to sub-
sides three. (Loud cries of " Oh.")
Mt. WALPOLE übj. cted that under the clause, the cab.
men weekl be entitled to charge le for every part awe
might be in a ®le. Who was to interpret that ?
This ditteulty was avoided by a verbal amendment.
Sir J. SHELLEY suggested to Mr. PeUatt that four
miles weeld include all the railway stations. Three miles
wallet met.
Tee clause was then pasted.
lie. V. SCULLY mitred a new clause, imposing a
penalty on any cab proprietor that should withdraw his cab
without giving seven days notice to the Commisciouen of
Mr. BOUVERIE said the clause was not within the in-
Seattlens of the committee.
)Ir. SCULLY replied that the dente went on to suspend
the license, and he thought the committee would be of
opinion that that brought it within those instructions.
Mr. HOC VERIE that is not fur the committee to decide.
(Liughter.) The hon. gentleman then decided,against the
conedtration of the clause. Whereupon
Mr. SCULLY gave notice that be should propose it at
another stage.
Ste D. NORREYS gave notice of a clause respecting dia.
Met as to distance, his object being to prevent a repetition
of Phillips's case. (Hear, hear.)
The house then trimmed.
ENCLUSION OF STRANGERS AT DIVISIONS.
Inc debate on this suojec* was resumed.
IV S. HERBERT said that the usable lord (Lord J.
Ite.s.A.) had no objection to the experiment being tried.
(that, hear.)
The resolution allowing Praeger., except in the frost
gal.ery, to remain during divisions was then agreed to.
On the question that two minutes be allowed before dos-
ing the doers,
Mr. FREWEN complained of the extreme polish whisk
wa, put upon the passim* to the house. He was afraid than
if hon members were hurried they would often (all doers.
(Laughter.)
Mr. MUNTZ requested the Sreaker to give his opinion.
The SPEAKER said be thought two minutes quite suf-
ficient. (Hear, hear.)
The resolution was then amended, by the insertion of
"two minutes." and agreed to.
The SPEAKER said he would take the necessary steps
for carrying out the resolution, mud would give notice of
the day when it should come into oper ition.
CRIME AND OUTRAGES (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
_ _ DUBLIN CARRIAGE BILL.

nil bill wood through committee.
TURNPIKE ACTS CONTINUANCE (IRELAND)

BILL.

'nig bill was read a second time.
PUBLIC WORKS ACT AMENDMENT (IRELANI

ADVANCES.

A molation on din 'abject eras agreed to is committee.
CHANCERY SUITORS' FURTHER RELIEF BILL.

This hill wu read a stand tins,.

_
The remaining orders of the day were postponed, and the
house adjourned at 3 o'clock.
Sir James Anderson has paired off for the remainder o
the session with Mr. G. M. Butt, Weymouth.
Lieut..Colouel Boyle's name was omitted as being pre-
sent at the " count out" on Tuesday night.
Mr. Winn Knight paired for, wiih Mr. Aglionby against,
Sir J. Paking•on's motion on salt duties.

ELECTION COMMITTEES.

CLITHEROE.

aft. ♦IPINALL DICI.ARILD NOT DULY ILICTID.
When the committee met yesterday morning,
Kr. &dwell was heard on the part of the sittiug me
Den.

Mr. Sonsent Hinglintireplied at considerable length.
The roam was then cleared, and after the committee had
been about two ham is deliberation.
The Chairman said the committee had unanimously come
to the following molt:tient :
" That T. J. W. kopinall, Esq., being a candidate at the
last election for the borough of Chtheroe, in 1•452,was guilty
of treating at such election.
" That the previous resolution is not founded on • dis-
belief of the evidence of the sioting member given yesterday,
but because, upon a review of the entire traneactione, the
committee felt bound to regard Mr. Aspinall u • coneenting
party to the illegal expenditure proved to be sanctioned by
Mr. Baldwin, irrespective of the question of Ms. Aspinalre
pertonalso gnisance of the actual treating.
That Mr. Aspinall was not duly elected a burgess to
serve in the present parliament."
I be committee then adjourned, Mr. Slade intimating that
be would to-morrow (this day) go into • recriminatory cue
against Mr. Fort.