The Express.
London, England, 1849-06-23 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 23, 1849.

THE BUDGET.
The house having resolved hull into a committee of sup.
ply ; Ile. lasitsat to the chair,
The CIIANCELLOR al the EXCHEQUER rose to
maki bit harm- ial stateliest to tu house. lie uid, al-
though the Mate meat I em about to submit to the house is
sot as firemulde as I cosh, have wished, or as favourable
es I should hue been justified is meta., ae au salver pi.
hod of the aortae, yet I believe and :tope, coasidering the
eirranstuese end uses in which we bath bag plasag. skis
to e not be altagether unsuish,tory to the Muse end the
contry. We seould ill appreciate the value of a eadeinent '
of the nneasial resources or the governmeat, if we did net 1
take into earelimation the eircumstances not only of Mel
thuntey, ta: a those other countries with which we knee
commercial relatiosa. (Hoer, beer.) We must macadam
that, a year sad a half ago, emu commucial disoreee pees
veiled latels Noah" ; that there bad been a finite Is he-
bed, sod that the state of continental Estop war seek Mai
gsr greatest interruption bad taken play is our usaandal
istercoarse wi.b many countries with which, in emlimerg
times, it was mast &dive. Who I stated last year that We
fowls, up of the aegthem ports cast a gnat damp on the
loopesta of trade, many bon. gentlemen opposite exprused;
opir uprise. But I behove I may appeal to those who are
bat atqu-voted with our manufac taring towns as to the feet
diet tam einem-tau* has produced meet serious damage.
mid when I state what I believe to be a tut, that our wade
with Geese.) alone le supposed to be cereal to two days'
irorkinq at our mitten mills ta a week, I think the iatertu?-
the which oar trade has felt mid be sufficient to account for
a diatinuti di of those samples espectations which were en-
leitalood by the comesercial and manufacturing world at the
beginning of wbetwss thought • more prosperous state of the
eteessery time was found to be the cue, I think we bad in that
teuallusatioa of what I stated last year, namely, bow deafly
we were interested in the pe.spesity of neighbour-
lag natioes—Otear, heart—how fur more valuable
they ere as parebasere than formidable as competitors,
and how deep as interest we have in promoting
by every mesas in our power that peace gad tranquillity in
nemhb nie ions on which not ashy their prosperay but
PO much of our own depends. I may sleo appeal to that
circumstance as coufiresing the propriety of the ccurse I
adopted at en slaty gat of the session, in refesieg to comply
wito the request which had been med. to Ise to mike my
financial statement earlier. The eironmstasses of the coun-
try at that time led me to expert a greater revenues from the
customs than appear sow to be realised. Some additional
hems of tiptoes had elm been roam, d since that time..
And though I Write have made the tiesocial statessuat
at an earlier period of the esesioa, yet as the
°hied, of a uremial state mut is set to show what are the
views of the Chasullee of the Ezelseciser for the time being,
but that sock a statemeat may legatos tithe house and the
country as should Lad them to form a reasonable opinion of
the state of the country, I think I was right in les:pooh,
;kite the preheat period. Before I state the prospects of the
landing year I will, according to ordinary custom, refer
shortly to theeirannistances of the past Telt. Hon.
gentlemen will recollect that at en early period of the 'c
ouse
a-
tion of 1848 we felt anew lied to propose to the
increase of taxation. We found • large and vast
anexpen-
diture which there were no means of defraying. We thought
it right to complete cerain large end terious works which
bad Leen undertakes, and that it would he the best 'cattail
to complete them as tom as possible. We took the some
view ot them *lnks as sae, hon. Esentseen take of the
worse of the Lew houses of parli hunt' who suggested that
money should to borrowed to complete them as soon as pers
ends. We did not think we should be justified in borrowing
money for this purpose. We thought that, having inaeassd the
dab: in coneequeace of the loan for Ireland in tee preuding
yur, it erse our duty eat to borrow any more money, but to
impose • temporary ism sea of huhu. With regard to
the expenditure, which was within our control, we reduced
it to as greet an evert as possible ; and we tht.ugbt it right
to spread it over se large a sorted as possible, so as to bring
the sperdnu.e of the country within the yearly income.
Mated that it the income tax was renewed 1 entertained
the most 000fident eioevation that within three years
the income of the country would be more than equal to the
cerrent expenditure of these three years. I repeated that
aseerence at the end of last session, and in the early part of
the present session I sta-ed how (re these expectations had
been re ntred, and what we had none to reshot th.. prospect
wire' I mad oat. Hon. gentlemen will remember that,
lAltityl late ate-ouch the expeodoure of the Cutlie war, the
vote eor Irish di•tres , and the expenditure fur Irish emi-
gre lute Ca. ads, anticipated the increase ot expenditure
would be VAlo.oool.—tbat is, that there would be a deficiency
o: 290,0001. 1 then stated that I thought it would be inhe
Ode tu loam any estimate of whet the produce of the
duty on •ea would be. and accordingly in the estimate of
Out duty. istrome which
Themd I alt.etker omitted any praceeds from
h ea mate ofg the ordinary income, exclutliug
core, was 61,660,0001. The actual perdue* was rather lese,
arteedpilly (rhos to an unexpected falling off in the stamp
arty, The hoe-4 is aware that the stamp duty had betel
elevated to a very Mitt in a time of what turned
eat to he mile • fictitious prooperity. The return
front the stamp deity was 460,0001. less than the re-
eased claimers furbished at the end of the session.
The actual expenditure, accordian to the balance-sheet, was
63,2%7,1101. It considerably exceeded the estimates. But
taste was included a euseicieraele item, which was never
!weeded to h, covered by the annual income, namely,
309,0001. for Irish diatoms sad Canadian emigration. There
was also an item fur maul exrem, which increased the
aursuLt to 713,7071. ; gad when that sum is deducted from
the actual esp. nditute, these renrisis 62,673,4031 as the
current expenditure of the year, Alicia clouds my estimate
by ohout 160,0001. The tote receipts In the year. including
960,0101. from the coca duties, are 53,170,7331. nem han
setua aillehou ei( 269,3781. ; but if hoe. geranonea wilt
compare the r. tetra of last year with the current espeedi.
tam, iaeludiag the items of excels which I have mentimeed,
they will tied that the actual current expenditure is
62,6 i 3,403/ ,or less thanthe receipts of the year by 440,000 e
It ye u d. du..t the expenditure for Irish purposes end fur
naval 'me •4 included in the expenditure of the
year" you will had a surplus of 120,0001. in the
rows e 1 test year above the expeediture. I
now come to the pro-peas for the present year. It ken.
gentlemen hold in their hated' the belancenheet up to Apt il,
they will ate teat the receipt for maims was 21,170,b50/.
There eas received for corn and meal of ell deacriptione
sod the receipts exclusive ot that amount were
20,120 000 f I %ill take that aa the 'mould iu round um-
beer. Erly in the year 1 was led to expect, es I ear, a!-
ready stated, that there would be no Mau enterable lacerate
in the receipts from the customs ' • and eltkuueh since that
peri d they have not looked so favourable as they cartel ly
did early in the tear, yet 1 entertain a coofident expectation
ratetha teethe. from
they wav
er
even tide year will not be
materially less then they wee, last year. I propose, V.:left-
ism, to take the customs for the year, exclusive of tire, at
20,200,0001. Last year the recap's from corn snout trd to
960,00a1., and moo vow haves flak they on corn, the amount
received due sot vary so much as toraterly, and is more
oally es boated. (Laughter true the opportioa beaches.).
T beteg a date of le on every (putter of corn. it is eit'
mire more sup to estimate the probable amounh (Renewed
laughter) N w. I Bbd that within the last year thewas
received upooladi in corn and meat—. article ressing
the intruductioa of which even the sgliculturists were most
auxi.us at the time—uo less than 'Jti,oool ; and I sea no
retoos why an amid ounwity should not be introduced is
the coming year. With regard to the amount of rein of
other lauds which will be imported, it is not very easy to
form an estimate, as it ROM dee.' ad v. ry much on the pro-
duce or the seat harvest; but I do not think 1 ara going
bet oud tee murk in calculating that from 150,00 W. to
200,0001. will be derived from tbe introdaction art all descrip
Boas of graie, exclusive of Indian corn. I propose
to like the total amount to be derived from In-
dian root, end other grain of all descriptions,
at 250,0001.; nuking the tote' r.• riots for the customs
210,474,0004 The income derived from the tICiI3 duties last
year ea-43,932,2701. I pri•po.o to take it for the present year
at 13,710.0001 ,ne eels:00,0011. Imo than the amount Wayne.
Tree stamps produced last year 8,556,11611. 1 am haply to say
that t ey hale been improving since the beginning of the
year, and I propose to take them this year at 6,730,0001.
Tha tax ;s produced 4,318,9001. • I promse to take them in
Toone lumbers at 4,300,0001. The income tax produced
5,317,0001; I ermine to take that at a vetoer lower amount,
awes ly, 6,273,0001. (Hear, bear.) The Post office produced
812,000/.•' 1 propose to take that at 800,0001. The crown
leads prodireed 100,0001.; I propose to take them at
180,0001. Tee miscellaneous receipts produced 18'2,0001.;
propose to take them at taxa Ti. ell stores having
produced last year 445,0001 , I propose to take theca at the
sass amount. The surplus Les having produced 110,0001.,
I propose to take them this year at 90001 ,• thus Dwain
the whole reesiots of the year 52,262,0001. I now turn to
the expenditure side. The intermit tis the public debt I set
down at 27,783.6E71., the interest on Exchequer Bills at
480,0009 i skier tee interest as the debt, funded and un-
funded. 26343,6271. The civil list, sad other charges on the
consolidet. d load, amount to 2,751,6664.; and the addition
of 60,000 early in the session fur the relief of
Irish distress, makes the Wife charge en the
consolidated fund, inclusive of the debt, 2,831,6561.
The total amount of the charge, therefore, on the consoli-
dated fund under the supply vo'e is 31,073,0831. The
amount rood for the navy is 8,206,7401., lee to pseket ser-
vice 748,2981, the vote foe the arctic expedition 12,8884 ;
making • total to the naval serves, of 7,021,72 U. Tree may
tote is 6,142,0111.; the corned cerise 631.8221. Then re-
mains to he voted the ordin try militia estimate, which last
y• ar was 113,0001.; making the total for the army 6,7117,0331.
the ordnance estimates amount to 2,034,2071., the, reboil-
Loftus rarest., to 3.924,7311., and there is • separate vote
by the purp se of niunding amounting to 62,1731. Tale
Constitutes the current expenditure for the year.
/.a HON, MEMBER—WeaI is the total ? (Laughter.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—hamIet
tome to that yet. (Lsughter.) Hon. geneletnea in aware
that there has already be n voted for naval excess in the yam
1847-8, ,he sum of 3'2.3,7871, and for ordnance excess epee
the year 1648. 97,9811. There have already been k
id en
the table of the hoar the ordeance, @nay, and coramitriat
accounts for the years 1847.8, and I am sorry to say that
apoa them, too, there is an excess. The :excess on the army
vote is 119 9;01., on the ordnance 35,3881. en the commis
prier, 63:5241. ; making a total of 642,6321. Tte total ex-
penditure, include," these excesses, is 62,157,69 V. Deduct-
ing the total expenditure, inclading the excesses
from the anticipated receipt., there will Le a
surplas of 104,3041. That is more material with
reepect to the future, perhaps, than to the present.
If from the expenditure you deduct the exerts which I have
stated on account of previous years, that will give yon the
expenditure for the year. the expenditure, as thus ob-
tained, is 51,6117,0641, leaviog $ surplus of anticipated re-
ceipts over the vote: expenditure of the year of 736,9361 Now,
sir, it is sight that, In moldering this expenditure, hon.
gentlesee should remewber that there ie now included in
the estimates for the first time the whole of the geese ex-
penditure of the year, and that, comparing the expenditure
WWI that of previous jeers, the total appease to be between

600,0001. and 000,000!. more than in trecedieg yea', persona who lost their situations under these and similar re- were,
in conseentelese of the appro
Del deOucted. It fact both jet:kit:tail:, ininconalisequenncl I:s getipossi°nttle.
ef the new method adopted, about 500,0001• higher than instance.
they would have appeared to be had the esti:Dates been dinar
;dined ;
Toad in the same way as they remedy were. The house °cc. abon'od be memployed inthe IX 'pa ic service es icon withc
'this recommendatioa waebeingeanied cut. For resist
tinder the bat of last you GGO excisemen had been could
a these, in acme- Lees, there had vacancies with
erred previously, winch, in anticipation, of a held
will observe-and I wish to call attention to this, as showing e' oe had not been Oiled up •'as to the rest' 90 trade
that we have used (very exertion to redeem toe pledge wtich ' officers' above the Bard
age of GO were placed en a rupersa nuation
we gave, that we would endeavour to keep the current ex.. 1 eihwaen ; of them five hove stem died : 188 other officers wbic
!mutinies within the current inconte-tbat if my an. have been app toted to other situation., since become vacant of I
tieitintiene are realised in the coarse of this year, under government, so that there now remain only 300 p: and
there will be an "me of income over 'anent:here. •onoitint- was of this elan to be provided for ; and as the whole moron- trio)
leg to between 1,100,0001. and 1,112,0001. ; and •
A do hope sr of the government le given up to the satislaction of wee
that, when we have recovered trout the excnnw of former this purpose, 1 have every hope that all the" persons man
ears, we shall have the satisfaction of find` wo a mid", will, within the mune of the next twelve months, 'hi]
y able surplus of income over expenditure, (Hear, bear.) be provided for. (Hear, her.) Inquiries ere proceeding Mit
Now the ea-in part of the excess is 1 ino Pos navy. My right icto the Board of Customs, and • ill be still more rigorously joy
km, friends oppoeite know as well as _to that the most oe. prosecuted when the termination of the semen shall give the war
tmissive thing on cm do in the navy te to vellum the Rae commissioners of inquiry greater leisure. The result of thei
1 employed- (Laughter.) There is • huge sum 1.. centred for thew inquilin will,' have (very reason to believe, be linnet war
y wages when chits are paid off-',sear) -ad although in a important saving to the public,and,coneurrently with greater as 1
• tones of rote the era ery lure voted csvers the ordinary ecouomy and increased efficiency, the principle kept in view the;
a expenditure, let when such 'as reduction takes place as has that the pub in service can be batter conducted by • atti
4 been effected within the het year sad • half, it neon- smaller number of men at adequate salaries that b a la- M.°
eerily entails • considers'
reale increase of expenditure. With gee number at inselequate salaries. (Hear, hear.) '(be sun Tb
A maid to the other items of vows.; it will, 1 think, be better plus exhibited this year is smeller then it is cleanable stiasi
e, to eater into exPlea a'siuns in rtiatiou to them when the wpm to have it, but in the bops that the natural Douro of things o,
is, rats votes Cr. ere posed. To a great extent, however, the will of itself increase that surplus in future years we do tleil
ri ewes, arose from cucums'ances welch could sot be foremen not think it necessary to increase float surplus
,at the time ;it was partly attributable to the movement of DOW by tho imo sitioo of any new tax. (Hear, hear.) cut
lag mope is t:ne early part of the sluing ot last year in co, No If they really wished for any of these charges in taxation, it he
,e, queues of the disturbances in Ireland at that period. The was utterly impossible they could bleu place unless there err
h• apparent excess is also owing in some degree to the adoption wee some surplus in the revenue. (11e-r, near.) MI
the of a more rigorous system of keepit g the accounts, which Mr. HUME quite d that it would be out of the gun. of
oat has manned the cerryieg over ot filagree& according to the tion to think of reducing the expenditure of the country wau
,o, practice of former years. So fa as then vy is concerned, I lest there were retractioes in the public departments. He t°,
'sal Ink with great confidence to my hon. feiend the 'waster, complained that no cemprebeivive measure bed been intro- w
bb, to the Admiraltyto prevent • recurrence of esti es in that duced to reduce the public expenditure, which fur the last a
we department. (Hear, hear ) Now I think it is right five peers had ex usded the expenditure of any year since N
ing that 1 should endeavour to satisfy the house that 1824. The hon. member then procesded to read eke following ti
,ia the anticipations of income which 1 entertain an nutmeats of the average expooditure for each five years since w
but not without a just foundation. 1 wish to refer to a 1824. and of Use amount of mama asbetween the years 1835 a
that paper tamed for the other day by the right hon. gentleman and 18413: jl
w i the member for Temworth, wean, wi bout some espies's- •
...Tbadelt AMOUNT 01 Pram !WEAVE...JED EAPIDIDITVIUI DI rums 1
(Ply lion, might appeal to show that the telling off in se or liva ]'tau secs, rum 1221 re MI.
was greater than it really is. In the customs duties there 'Ordinary revenue after de. a
my
Is no great falling off. Tins time last year the corn duties Acme. so "wow shewb,l", sod Teta s
run- Expenditure. I
were very bigb, and there Ilse been a considerable dieniew repayments.
'tins
ono( ties in respect °Laos. duties. From the return to which I
1524..
V 44418,360 X 53,515,645 I
ime, allude it would appear that since the beginning of the year, t_ VOM.n.
1404,167 61,0,827
not namely, up to the 6th of January, there has bean a fallime re4:7ol.root 31,073,408 144873,961
tin
cony
is the customs duties to the extent of 492,0001. That mote 1"3 52,40t00n 83,415,04
the centre's, hoots er, a very incorrect Mee of the real 1844 MINI 87,1101,43.1 30,33 i,176
~. state of the sue. In the financial year, ending the tau cusithath went iaii.
A
'TOO 6th of April, the diminution, iosteert of being 490,1.601., 80,1015,25 ti I 48,787,83 a
nof is Only 400,000/. Moreover, even that amount represents, rant '''' °"-- I 17,227,938 36,994,718
,iiig Oct a falluig oli; but only a poetpureencat. lion. gentlemen
I the are aware thatl have postponct the payment of one-half of 00eT Of MINT, MATT, MID ChtDIANCE. 1824 TO 1540 ineusivr.
nger the hop duties. In consequence of my Laving received re- 1
___ Airy. 1
___ ___ Navy. 1 Maisel. Total
arre.l6
11 mesentations to the distressed condt ion of the hop grow.
e as
en, the payment of the duties, which were I spittle in the _
isear beginning of May, was postponed till August. 130,c001. is LI; to. 11,123 i11:7494V, t ts2Z7O st1:1414::00: £lle4g:n
epee_ the amouot the payment of 'shack has been time postponed. 1634 to 1638... 6,141,600 4,411,24.0 4288,240 12',234,P0
ought Moreover, the period for the receipts on account of malt is um to 1%481 5,30,13 0 1.165,400 1,698,200 14,426,000
ohom six weeks later this year than last, and the postponement in 1844 to 1846 8,7111,600 7,231,000 2,469,400 ltionttooe
that re, pet of 60,0001., makes the deferred duties on hops
'nowt] COMPeltleee tee' 1833 Ines 18411.
acme
which
malt neatly 200,0001. In like meoner, under a bed noo- 1 £6,016,143 14:1099,M 1 ‘1,111,914 t f 11,637,167
a the which was peered last anion, to allow the bonding of son 6,647,2,14 I 7.922,2,6 1 3,076,124 I 17,644691
that Scotch and Isiah spirits, the pa) meet of 400,0001. has
d
been postponed from the beeinniog of the pear ; He therefore oil protest mann this eicessive outlay,
di poor
owin in that respect there is no ciminution of revenue. and he asked, why were we to keep up these enormous
;wit" With reference to stamps, it would appear Irons the papers charges ? He coos net one to insist on the redueti'tn of the
:tang that
.there bad been • dectease on this item since June income of the country hater. the expenditure was reduced ;
but to
of 3.1,0001 , but lam happy to say that the returns from the but what be asked was, that there should be a complete re-
tad to s:h April, the commencement of the financial year, exhibit trettchment in the whole of the national expenses. lie bad to
educed this very Wearable indication of the revival of trade, an in- objection to the vote proposted by the right hon. gentleman;
„tem, crease upon the quarter of 400001. (Heir. hear.) As to it was • matter of course, but he had thought it right to
,1
bring the income tax, which in the former period would ail- make thew observations.
me.l poet to represent • falling off of 5,600:., there is shown Sir .1. TYRELL generally coincide.' in the statement 01
rwieed since the commencement of the (wane el year an increase the Chartcellor of the Euchequer. The hon. member foi
i *,
i years of 9 7001 for Great Britain. As to Ireland, I am sorry to lMontrosehad been sosusiog himself by many unnecessary
Ito the say I cannot give so avowable an account, but the eircum- remota on the present occasion. There was one rest omit
ed that stances of that country are really such, that one cannot feel Bien in the statement of the C•teucelor if the Exchequer
part of surprised at this result. (Hear, bear.) I would here wish Tie,' that he did nut give any i-oight into the fends the
vets hod to go a lona further beck in my inquires as to tee condition the house would be answerabe for in reference to the stat
imps,' of toe country, in order to see what, d ur•it g the past 6ot 8 years, of Ireland.
~ tam, our income has been amid toe varying oueumstences which Mr. L. HODGES expressed his regret that the Chalmette
nr; the have ch..hcrerised that period. In the year ending April 5, of the Exchequer had not stated his intention of repealln
m em,_ 1842, the cortisone income of the country, net including an the duty en hops.
,„,litswe ine.me tax, was 48. million ; its the course of the next year
, Lord It. GROSVENOR complained that the duty on th
ticiency there was a considerable reduction of duties, so that in the
et Tuft •aces of attorneys was not repealed. They wsre
be on. year coding April 6, 1843, the income ass only 451 not.
nighty metal, valuable and, he wowd add, powerful cl see.
of the lions ; in the year ending April 5, 1844, it was 461 lutetium ;
mats of in the year outing April a, 1841, it had risen to 41,110,0001.; Mr. IeRBWEN coos satisfied that if this duty era. I
~de from in th, cJur.<l of the year • considerable /seined,* of duties be maintained there would be an outbreak in the wetorr,
„Judge tnk place, so that in the year 'piling April 5, 1816, the in. and it would become more expensive to collect the duty thi
in
amp coma eine mon fell to 40 "mom "d under ;in the year the thing was worth. He hoped the government woo
e smew coding April .i, 1817, the income ruse to 4ti m Woes son up. Cotnply with the request of the petitioners, at lean to tat
wo been wads, hut this increase WAS to be accouuted for by the recu-
t off the war duty.
tuned tier urcumstances of the titan, in couneaion with the von Mr. MACGREGOR said that, considering the shoe
return eopernii ere made in all pans of the country upon railway.. trade in 1816, 12117, and 1848, and the condition of the con'
the re_ Again, in that year there was a considereele 'eduction of sent, he thought they ought to be highly patisfied with tl
seam
•en. dudes, nit lees than two millions ot taxation "teeing being state of the revenue. As regarded. xpenditure, he del n
wet, was absolutely repealed. In the year ending April 5, 1848, look for • great reduction of exprndnure nnlese Ireland eau
es. But the income was 40 millions ; and lest year it rose to be pat on a different footing-unless they could reduce t
es never a little Wove 40 millions. In the present year, 1 coneubulary force and the exe, olive winery force in th
namely, believe myolf warranted in the ii lief, calouloted upou country. As to the abolition of ducats, be should curtain
s. Then the experience of former yeah, teat the ordinary, wish that every exerti an was mode so.' at once, if pool,
wed the income of the country, still f 5C1411141 of the income tea, will to reduce the duty on hops, brick", ant windows. As to the,
owl free be in rour.d number.' 46 millions. This income, it will be decline of the duty on tea, he was decidedle of QOM
g ea the remembered, is maintained at this amount, despite the re- that if they were to reduce the duty on tea, they would 1
,stiimi, ductions of taxation which have taken place ad are toinng for the next three piers, derive en annual 'nom., of etc
"loon., perm from time to time. In the year 1817 the reelection of than fore, million.. He week], on the other herd, prop,
fa as nuatit.o wag 110 less than 341,8861. The amount of duty is. to inereare the income tax to 5 per cent., to be enabled
du.'ed last year, exclusive of corn duty, was 685,968 i. This 41x) i'h ot once the duty on hope, and Dekko, and windo'
nee wilt
...., year the ie.:woke.' duty may be taken at 385,. mil. which h considered u.qual, but in the remelt state poi
metlisSee; tipsily en sugar ; but ootwithetandieg these very pr-- bleu he believed the C tune liar of the Exchequer (Re
doure h tent reductions, the ordinero revenue of the coun'ry, ex. of inert son! the income tax.
440;0001. elusive of the it come tax, will not fell short this year of the Mr. COWAN complained of the general cperation
s and ier amount which it has maintained its the past two yea"- excise du•ies.
of the namely, in round numlnov. 46 millions welling. I feel fully Mr. EWART advwated reduction in expenditure.
in the warranted in making this estimate, from a careful examine- Air. UMMOND urged a reduction of those Jul
11. DR
tun. 1 ti'm of the state of the roastry, treeent and probable.
It boa. (Hear, hear.) I should, under ordinary circumstances, wilt°, lamed ',lieu the poor.
to April, hone Olt it
buty to go at eome length into ttc state of Mr. M. GIBSON thought the gov lament would
;170.000t the coentry, the bon. member fur Du ikinthreinshire has get much credit fur ec,nomy, so long as they requi
won 000.„. Risen nteice of • distinct motion on that en' ject. lam very the tel gatherer to call on the tax payer fo• the same auto
eintr were glad nett ha his dons so, for I think it exeeedinoty of money as before. (Hear, hear.) Of what use was it
end nom-
desirable, fur the sake of all parties, that the eitiesuon tell the taxpayer of the great economy practised by eon
! Lew, ao 'hould be fully and [silly discussed. (Hear, heir.) merit, and that certain d eke which ought never to have b
Is increase I ma only, therefore, observo at prevent, that 1 c-nsider begun, are to be finished at a more r. mote period than
some that there is e decided and increasing Improvement in the nunto at first inteuded ;or what satbraction would it he Lo
athe I
, orrisi, Is• r
awteCtUieericts-hear, h. ar)ney is easy, and there payer to bra? of the admission that unfortunate mistkes I
rainaaa,a, is an ple amounted bullion sad reserve, so that upon the ' been made in th it construction, if after all the caseate,
tog not be whole, we may not tentairly look f oward to a ste.e of came to pia door for as heavy an amount as ever ? (H,
things which will admit of soil further reductions in text- hear.) Therefore, until his right boa, friend (the CO
re, Cure.
o ~,,, at hon. (Heir, hear.) In reletion to such reductions, Ido cellar of the Exchequer) could effect such reform as we
toot contemplite going beck to 1835, became there have been feeds him to do with less income and to make smaller
courted to
many changed io the eircuuntances of the country since maids on the taxpayer, he could not get much credit •
1 "amount
is mon that ectiod ; and many chaos s have 'wen thrown upon the public for economy. (Hear, hear.) Now, with re
beechce.) toe melee; rettnue a lath were not loran borne by it. to free trade, he (air. Gibson) thought that a fitting am
n. it se es Hear ) In Dec. 1847, the hon. and gallant member for Ips• to say, that he thought the government deserved great cr
(Renewed with hal a notice on the paper, to call tte attention of the fur the firm and successful manner is which they
house to the state of the national def, nces of Great Britain carried the repeal of the navigation laws. (Cheers.)
there was
mewing and Ireland; the only lamas to be drawn from thought that a fitting occasion to allude to the point,
were most which motion is, that the bon. end gallant gentleman although he did not wish to treat the subject with any lee
Iwe oo et ?het time comiaered these detente inedequate. (Hear he could rot help observing that the protectionist party
dund is hear.) The works, however, h tviug been, by the cordial Non is tome degree instrumental to the meet es of the •
A steed of commurcoce of the house, commenced, it would have sure, from the attitude they had assumed; for it was the
been eminently absurd to have stopped short in that a government might be formed of their porty that
neasy
the pro-
their propose, and, accordingly, wheu the honour- induced a reluctant House of Lords to agree to the rep
iem „Owe able member for South *ark made a proposal to disccen (Hear, hear.) But he did not think that this detracts,
50.00 w. to Wine the works at Don r harbour, he was very naturally the least from the merit of the gov fitment in having m
11l deecrip. supported by only twenty-seven member.. the vast majority the measure a cabinetquestion, land announced their
I pr vow et the home deciding that • certain outlay hiving been so lion to steed or fall with it. (Hear, hear) He would
from In- tar incurred, it world he more expedient and mere nonce. however, have the government repose too long on the la
mical to complete the operations. (Hear, hear.) For the they Ind pined by the repeal of the navigation 1,
Imricupattioonion; &navynot a man was voted sore than was deemed regineite (Hear, hear.) There were a number of commercial rife
e
duties last under the circumstances of the country, and the game princi. to be accomplished, and anomaliu in the tariff bit
„t
yeo, pie was strictly observed in relation to the army. Below the got rid of. Tree latter was still burdened with a varlet
et Wmis ayne. effective force it was not anly economics' or expedient to small articles yielding little or nn revenue, but the di
reduce the numbers of either arm. Recent experienee has on which tended very much to embattles trade. The Me
apyto say a she shown that of two insurrections in Canals, one was only Chambers of Edinburgh had presented a petition to '
6,780 0001 put down by great sacrifice of life and property, precisely house showing that the excise duties on paper had at
be them in hecaolts there was no efficient force at hand to quell it in the them to discontinue • work intended for the humbler do
r produced ';net {oscines, while the other was at coos suppressed with of which there was then a circulation of 80,000. (H
er amount facility because the requisite force was at least In the hear.) Here was a most important means for the diffu
e preduced present year, circumstances percolating a reduction to that of knowledge suddenly checked. (Hear, hear.) Then
The crown extent, the government have most eladiy reduced the navy ho said that both in a commercial point of view, an
a them at by 3,000 men and the army by 10,000-(hear, hear)-any affecting the diffusion of knowledoe, there were no t
1820001. ; further rectuctioa was deemed iucousistent with the upset of which it would give him more maturation to repeal I
ma haying affairs in Europe (Hear, (Hear, beer.) The only arm which has the duty on paper. (Hear,Aear.) The advertisement,
them at the been ina Is the artillery, and, after recent Indian ex- was port of the same subject, and ought to be
the repea i
d 110,0001, perience, I consider it would hive been most uejuntilieble bat he looked upon one matter as perhnps
bus making had we not placed that force in a really effective cenditien. ; important of all an cennezion with the diffusion of kt
ow turn to (Henry hear') I stated at the close of last session, that in ledge, and that was the penny stamp upon newspo
Ic debt I set the ntim nes of that year I had made a reduction of ' (Hear, hear.) Thies tax was reduned some time sines
ter Bills at 828,7001 ; I stated ea, ly in this see-ion, that in the estimates, I ought to have been abolished. (Hear, hear.) Let his i
led and ten- as they stood on the table, there was a redaction of I bon. Mood then repeal the clew duty on paper, the in
won en the 1,111,000 r. ; since that time, further 'inmates have been , paper stamp, and the advertisement duty, which an
the oddities laid on the table, in all, or nearly ail, of which there have parts of the same question of taxes on knowledge ; sn,
',lief of re Lichens been made. I wide to show that the Trecsoq 1, would have taken a course quite in acomrdencc with th
, enaba d .es exercise that which it is its duty to exercise, en all-1 professions of the whig party, and one which be was
2,831,5561. to reading control over the expenditure of tale country, and ; woull establish the government in the confidence of
the "emu• this nut only in the larger and more pubic estimates, but in ,° country. Iwo= flowing spontaneously inter the Excite
ogoo The the minor and leas canvassed. The estimate [or the civil ; was never spontaneously given up, and, therefore, he wi
, packet me. service consisted of 103 votes • of these, 45 were less tban Ito impress upon the house that if there should be aen
m 12,6881. ; the corresponding votes of Wt year ; 24 were larger, 32 they ought not to permit of its being appropriated to
Tos army were the same, 2 were new vote., and 10 were given up. ° increase of our fighting establishments. (Hear, her
Thews ?so In dos 3 and clue. 6, there was an increase; in the former, ; had the most perfect confidence that the expenses of '
. which but occalosted by addiioned charges for the administration of ' establishments might be reduced. He had testified to
r 6,787,0431. justices arising out of an increased number of political prose- ' conviction by his votes in the hoes, so often that it we
the lainai. cutlet*, dcc.; in the 1 itter, occasioned by the charge for I necessary then to dwell longer on the subject. He the
'pirate vote I tiperannuiti ma, inevitable upon the large reductions which lit moat satisfactory to contemplate the great success v
1,1731. Tate have beau sleds in the various public departments. The ' had attended the commercial policy of the right hon.'
two new Totes were obsoletely essential for repairing : net the member for Tamworth. If ever there was a i
damages to the Cieledontal Canal, and for fitting several capable of proof by mathematical demonstration to be
(Laughter.) i small harboan on the mint of &Noland as plains of refuge credal, both as to its effects on reveres. and on trade, ti
It-I cannot for the fishermen. I oil now stem what have been the total , that commercial policy which the right hos. ba
a ere awe,. rod:talons in the estimates for this year. There is a reduc- I bad commenced so boldly and carried out so vigor
•he the year ties of 718,163 e. in the navy estimate,, of 433,9141 in the ° from 1842 to 1847. (Loud cheery.) It was that I
excess sip to army te timates. of 337,8781. in the ordnance estimate', and i which his right hon. friend, the Changan*e of thi
nn laid on of C00p... la the miscellaneous (oilcans ; being a reduction , chequer, mum carry out. He hoped also that the
„miasma, in the whole of sot less than. 1,511,2501. in the course of the party would take up their old ground, removing the
•to my that year, which, added to the reductions made in termer years, ea knowledge as the right hon. baronet had remitted
on the army snows a total decrease of not Ins than 2,340,1551. (Hear. ea food, foe knowledge
said hat
to fooL
the commis I hemp that holt. gentlemen near mo will admit this fact as a Mr. STAFFORD said that the agricultural pope
rts total ex- prof that we have not been unmindful of the principle that did not coseirla that the fremtzeile experiment
I', Deduct- exnendouresholl be reducedwhemeverpracticable.lntheiteme been eumweeful in regard to the promises with whi
e onuses which do cot come under the direct apneas of parliament had been latroduced. The hon. gentleman (Mr. 0,
ill be • we have not lemobserved this principle By lb. consolidm bad while the government for the •
terisl with lion of the boards of stamps, excise, and taxes, we have they had taken w Wed to the navigation bill, sisi,
he present effected a v, ry material reelection both in the *umber of still Nether experiment. Ma be made is the way I
hich I have persons employed, and in the amount of salaries. If we trade. But what be (![r. allaing erne Was, tb
ve you the take the lean 1833 as a point of comparison, we find that heart amount of -Omegas iaehiseemestoretald prevent
is thus ob- whereM is 1833 there were 9,083 persons employed, there carrying out their frontaide tram. Thraket.gentleetio
icipatei re- are now, in 1849, only 7,029; and, whereas in 1833 the recoil:mended the writs' goveenment, as a means of re
,9381 Now, salaries amounted to 962,2561., they now amounted only to ing theft led popularity, to reposl the taxes on knewle
dame, hon. 715,0921, being a reduction in numbers of more knowledge beingo Mho said, next la food; but he sees
included in than two thousand, and in salaries of nearly a quarter forget &at there were yet 4,011141 artleles
levied. of
be gross ex• of a million. (Hear, bear.) This is of course exclusive of on which prObtotive duties were etill
expenditure the charge for the cella:Ion of the income tax. The can- were the duties ewe butter and cheese, which, thsenh
be bwr,,a tame on egiseeilenooov expenditure recommended that mind up with** 00Th duties 17 MM. gwitlaiesa ell

'UA7

Re therefore of I protest sgeioet this excessive outlay,
and he asked, why were we to keep up these abormoua
charges ? Ho W.lll nit one to insist on tb- reduetisn of the
income of the country ',afore the expenditure was reduced ;
but what be asked was, that there 'amid be a complete rs-
trenchront in the whole of the national 'aimless. lie had no
objection to the vote prlsoeed by the right hon. gentleman;
it was a matter of omrss, but he had thought it right to
make these observations.
Re .1. TYRELL generally enincidei in the statement of
the Chancellor of the Euchequer. The hon. member for
Montrose had been aususidg bowel( by many unnecessary
remake on the present occasion. There was one great omit-
sion in the statement of the Clauce.lor of the Exchequer,
VIZ., that he did nut give any i ,ight into the fends that
the house would be answeratne fir in reference to the state

of Ireland.
Mr. L. HODGES expressed his regret that the Chancellor
of the Exchequer had not stated his intention of repcaline
the duty en hope.
Lord R. GROSVENOR complained that the duty on the
vital ems of attorneys we. not repealed. They ware a
highly %meet, valuable and, he wou.d add, powerful el Are
Mr. FRBWEN woe satisfied that if this duty was to
be molntaincd there would be an outbreak in the co.-.ntry,
and it would become more 'emulsive to collect the doty that.
the thing was worth. He hoped the government would
comply with the request of the petitioners, at least to take
off the war duty.
Mr. MACGREGOR said that, eonsidering the state of
trails in 18W, 1817, and 1848, and the erudition of the cowl-
tient, he thought they ought to be highly patibled with the
slam of the revenue. A. regarded s xpenditure, he did not
kirk for • great reductiun of expenditure unless Ireland e AAA
be pat en • nifferent footing—unless they could reduce the
ernembulary force and the exe; Naive military lace in that
country. As to the abuliti in of duties, he should es rtainty
with that every exerti .n was mode so a. at once, if pomilde,
to reduce the duty on hops, bricks, and windows. As to the re.
duetiori of the duty on tea, he was decidedly of opinion
that if they were to reduce the duty on tea, they would not
for the next three years, derive an annual incomes of wore
than tore , million.. He week], on the other hard, propose
to increase the income tax to 1 per cent., to be enaltled to
Joe jell at once the duty on hops, and bricks, and windows,
ehich he considered um quad, but in the present state of the
house he believed the C ianc lior of the Exchequer despaired
of inert anti t the income tax.
Mr. COWAN complained of the general cperation of
excise duties.
Mr. EWART advocated reduction in expenditure.
Mr. 11. DRUMMOND urged a reduction of those duties
which pressed upen the poor. .
Mr. H. GIBSON thought the gov rement would not
get much credit fur economy, so long as they required
the tax gatherer to call on the tax payer f sr the same amount
of money as before. (Hear, hear.) Of what use was it to
tell the taxpayer of the great economy practised by `omen-
meet, and that certain el eke which ought never to have been
begun, are to be finished at a more r. mote period than was
at first ir.teuded ; or what satisfaction would it he to the tax-
payer to h, or of the admission that unfortunate mistakes bad
been made in th it construction, if after ail the taxgatherer
came to his door for as heavy an amount as ever ? (Hear,
hear.) Therefore, until his right hod. friend (the Chin'
cellar of the Exchequer) could effect such reform as would
onsets him to do with lees income and to make molter de-
weeds on the taxpayer, he could not get much credit with
the public fur economy. (Hear, hear.) Now, with regard
to free trade, he (Mr. Gibson) thought that a fitting occasion
to say, that he thought the government deserved great me i.
fur the firm and successful manner in which they had
carried the repeal of the navigation laws. (Cheers.) lie
thought that a fitting occasion to allude to the point, and
although he did not wish to treat the subject with any lenity,
he could cot help observing that the protectionist party had
tern is sem degree instrumental to the /MeV se of the sea-
sure, from the attitude they had assumed; for it was the fear
that a government might be formed of their party that bad
induced a reluctant House of Lords to agree to the repeal.
(Hear, hear.) But he did not think that this detracted in
the least from the merit of the goy moment in haying made
the measure a cabinet question, and announced their inten-
tion to steed or fall with it. (Hear, hear.) He would nut,
however, have the government repose too long on the laurels
they hod gained by the repeal of the navigation laws.
(Hoar, hear.) There were a number of commercial reforms
to be accomplished, and anomalies in the tariff to be
got rid of. The latter was still burdened with a variety of
small articles yielding little or no revenue, but the duties
on which tended very much to mahatmas trade. The Mimes.
Chambers of Edinburgh had presented a petition to that
house showing that the excise duties on paper had caused
them to discontinue • work intended for the humbler classes,
of which there was then • circulation of 80,000. (Hear,
hear.) Here was a most important means for the diffusion
of knowledge suddenly checked. (Hear,. hear.) Therefore
he said that both in a commercial point of view, and as
affecting the diffusion of knowled4e, there were no taxes
which it would give him more satisfaction to repeal than
I
; the duty on piper. (Hearohear.) The advertisement duty
was part of the same subject, and ought to be repealed
but he looked upon one matter asperhaps the meet
important of all in cennexion with the diffusion of know-
ledge, and that was the penny stamp upon newspamia.
(Hear, hear.) This tax was reduced some time since • it
ought to have been abolished. (Hear, hear.) Let his right
hon. friend then repeal the excise duty on paper, the news.
' paper stamp, and the advertisement duty, which are all
parts of the same question of taxes on knowledge. ; end le
, would have taken a course) quite in sccordancc with the old
professions of the whig party, and one which be was sure
would establish the government in the confidence of the 1
country. Income flowing spontaneously inter the Exchequer
was never spontaneously given up, and, therefore, he wished
i to impress upon the house that if there should be a surp:us
they ought not to permit of its being appropriated to the
increase of our fighting establishments. (Hear, hear) lie
had the most perfect confidenco that the expenses of those
' establishments might be reduced. lie had testified to that
conviction by his votes in the bow t so often that it was not
necessary then to dwell longer on the subject. He thought
lit moat satisfactory to contemplate the 'great success which
had attended the commercial policy of the right hon. bore-
. net the member for Tamworth. If ever there was a policy
capable of proof by mathematical demonstration to be sae-
cessfel, both as to ....
policyts on revenue and on trade, it tellS
Ithat commercial which the right hoe. baronet
had commenced so boldly and carried out so vigorously
' from 1842 to 1847. (Loud cheers.) It was that policy
which his right hon. friend, the Chancellor of the Ex.
chequer, must carry out. He hoped also that the whig
party would take up their old ground, removing the taxes
an knowledge as the right hon. baronet had remitted those
es food, for knowledge was next to food.
Mr. STAFFORD said that the agricultural population
did not cossielet that the free-barb experiment had
been successful in regard to the promises with which it
had been Introduced. The hon. gentleman (Mr. Gibeon)
had while sublimity the government for the course
they had taken with mord to the navigation bill, said that
still feather aspertasolo mat be made Is the way of free
trade. Bat what he (Mr. lofierd) ossatoded was, that the
hum animal of —Umlaut' dalbiatranatryulsid prevent their
carrying out their Mertes& epees. The bee.gentleman had
reemgmended the whiff goveenmene, as a means of recover-
lag their let popularity, to repeal the taxes on knowledge—
knowledge bung, ash. said, next to food;
but he seemed to
forget thee there wore pot dome articles of food
on which prttootivo duties were Sal levied. There
were the duties cue butter and chow, wee thin* owe
mixed up with the enli duties b 7 We. sestleeese motto?

were, now the duty on corn was abolished, allowed to Yemeni
without auy attempt being made to remove them. The
reason was because the revenue derived item those articles
could not be spared. That was what he had always said
with regard to the die its which had been removed lie
hold that they could not carry oat their principles of free
trade to
maintain faith with the public meditor. With re-
gard to the condition of the labouring classes in a couety
which had been alluded to that evening, with the lowest price
of food was to be found the lowest rate of wages,
and with there the greenest amount of misery, suf.
ering, and starvation. The question of cheap food
was,
not the only one that concerned 110 poor
man, end If they merely plated before him cheap food,
while at the tame time by their legislation they deprived him
of the menus of purehasiog it, they inflicted open him an in-
jury not a benefit. if the distresaas of the agriculturalists
wars disregarded—distresses which had been brought upon
them by means repugnant to the r honest and weightier-
ward character—they might unite fur an object, it might be
as difficult to diuuade them from as to concede. nor could
they with any cot filence look to them for that strong
attachment to the institutions of the country for
which they had so long been honourably distinguished.
The hon. member for the West Riding had premised to
assist the agriculturalists in endeavour:nig to procure • reduce
Woo of the wait tax. He did not know whether the hon. gen-
tleman meant to carry out that promise.
Mr. COBDEN did not intend to be seduced into any dis-
cussiva on toe questions referred to by the hon. gentleman;
lee would merely observe, that he considered the experience
of every day justified the views he entertained as to Ira
trade in to rte. (Hear, hear.) He should not waste the time
of the house be going out of his way to talk on the
subject, but was content to leave it to time, and
to ',bide by that test, as to the result of
what the honourable gentle-ran still was pleated to call
an experiment. The hon. gentleman referred tothe melt tax
Now he (Mr. Cobden) had received communications from
the *moues of Rumex and Kent, asking him to bring for-
ward • motion to repeal both the malt and the hop ;duties.
Toe hop growers represented to him that they Mira sub-
jected to all kinds of natural calamities in the pursuit of
their bunnies. They had to colleen.' with the blight, the
fie, the tlea, the mildew, the honey-dew, and a variety of
I other diseases to which the hop plant was liable, but they
said that all these were nothing as compared with the evil of
the excise duty, which was a periodical blight overrunning
the whole &erne (lithe, and a laugo.) Here was a
beggarly 250,0001. to produce which the evil lefluence of the
excise regulations were spread over four or live counties to
such an extent, that they were told by the hon. member
opposite that it it were eeraisted in they might expect an out-
break in the cruatry. Here was • proof of the prejudicial
influence of these excise duties on the industry of the coun-
try. Then the paper duty had been referred to, but the hon.
member for Edinburgh being connected with that trade, eon
aidered it might not be proper that he should detail all
the grievances- which the excise duty, and the vexatious re-
pinion+ which were adopted for levying it, imposed. The
manufacturers generally said that they found those regula-
tions a far greater burden than the Rime= of money they
were ceded upon to pay. See how these regulations inter-
paacd in the changes which most from time to time in the
carrying cut of a man's business. Lately there had been a
change in the postage, which had occasioned • very exten-
sive manufacture of envelopes. Would any ens believe,who
had not heard it from a practical man, as he (Mr.
Cobdeu) had, that, by the regulations of the excise, a
e spar manufacturer might cut out the envelopes
bet was not permitted to fold them on his premises ? (Hear,
hear.) Torn look at the time regulations and the unneces-
sary impedimenta they imposed es the manufacturer. You
must leave the paper ou the premises 24 hours before it can
be removed, and this 24 hours often amounted to 48. Now
in these days, when business was carried on with an expo-
did .a unknown to their forefathers, such regulations
amounted to far greater impediments than ever were
cent mplated when they were tint framed, perhaps a
century or two age. The increased facilities of movement
resultwg from the introduction of new pewee'', did not admit
of such impedimenta. Why it was like putting a tell-bar
acres. a railway. (" Rear," and a laugh.) Tne increased
activity and speed with which manufactures were conducted
—the vast number of transactions us compared with the
course of trade in (ornate times, rendered thsse impediments
quite insupporm.4le, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer
must meek° up his mind that he would have to endure a
pre eme tor the removal of these obnoxious and almost un-
-iesureble taxes, which he would pot be able long to
ream!, and he mutt make up his mind either for a large
ri &nee. of expenditure or to make up the cledieeeecy by
dir ct timation. At the commencement of the seisiou be
hail named several article a on which he thought the duties
ahoele be abolished, eve ry one of which had been alluded to
educe in this house. Tea was one of those articles, and this
was a eifficulty which the government must meet. (Cheers.)
The leverp peop'e had adverted to tins subj• et ; and
when they found they could Lot succeed becauo of the
state of the revenue, they converted their agitation for a re-
duction of the tea duties into a Financial Reform Associa-
tion. But they were as anxious for a reduction of the tea
dutses as ever. There was another duty which had not been
remind to during the preseeteli-cussion, with regard to which
some clump must also be made ; that was the duty on tim.
bar. (Cheers.) Hatieg repealed the navigation lows, the
govern Dent must be prepared to meet the saltation which
would follow for the repeal of that duty. (Hear.) Ines-
were not statesmen if they were not prepared to meet that
dimane. The question was, how were they to do it? It
could be done only by reducing the public expenditure or by
increasing direct taxetion. There was no other way in which
it could be dune. (Hear, bear.) He did not think that th.
couleur would he satisfiel with the Chace llor of the
Eiechequer's budget en this occasion. He had, however,
made a etep in the right direction. The right hon. gentle-
men did not propose to spend more than he wee to receive ;
but then be did not propose to speed less. (Iliac, hear.)
Mr. L. HEY WORTH sail it had afforded him greet
nleeeure to hear the tutu the debate had taken, because he,
like many other hon. members, was strongly in favour of the
removal of th • customs and excise duties.
Mr. SANDARS said the right hon. gentlemen the Chan-
' ether et the Exchequer had complained of the lore the re-
value tad 1118,11111 ell by the unite-unease state or affairs in the
north of Europe. Ile (Mr. Sender+) was well aware of the
distresses occasioned by the eceurrences which had taken
place in that quarter; but he wish d to know whether, if
the treaty of Ise) had been cane el tent, the war which now
existed would have prevailed? Toe right hon. gentleman the
Chan:ellen piths Exchequer had stated that the Is eluty upon
e-rn had produced a ter the post year of 50,0031., but
that 50,0001. might be incrnseel to 240,000/. for thee next year
if the duty were teasel, nit might be, from Is to is (A
lamps.) lie d:d not ask for a duty of 5-. ter the sake of
protection. He ark dit for the sake of the revenue, and his
own experience led him t. b.lieve that if a ss. duty w. re im-
posed, not one penny additional would come out 01 the
pocket. of the British consumer. (Lauehor.)
Mr. COBDEN said be should not have made a single re-
mark if tee speech they had jug heard had emanated from a
couety [turnip'', but he could noeforbear ob.ervine that his
hen. friend, the Deanne who had just asp n, was not sent
to that solute by the pc•wle of Wakefield to propose a tax
upon bread. (Hear, hear) He ( Mr. Cunha) was rather
a,tonished to bear a proposition of that bind cola*
from such a quarter. The hon. member had prevailed a tax
of st. on foreign wheat, and he had admitted that, it ha
may d the foreigner would pay it. N err, the hen. gentle-
men dealt in corn, and he (Mr. Cobden) would teeth the
liberty of putting a case to him Beppme he bed a thousand
quarters of c rn arrived et Hull, !Tom Dantric, aid that
tee. e was a duty of is. upon it; would he sell that corn to
the E :ghee censurer r for the same price if it were on shore
As it it were effete ? heir.) Would be not sell it
at so much less afi xt ?—and, if on shore, would hewn say to
the matinee, "You must pay the ss. duty additional i"
(Cher,...) How then could he, hints -If a corn merchant,
get up in that house aud allege that a duty paid on the im-
pertation of a fore ign artists was not paid by the consumer
but by the lenience? (Loud cheers.)
Mr. SAN BARS begged to state that he had entered
that bowie iu quite as independent a position as the hon.
member for the West Rider, that whatever statements he
mwe there he considered Lim-elf perfectly justified in mak-
ing, and that be cared not fur the censure which
might be passed upon him by the hon. gentle-
man. (Cheers from the protectionists.) What he had
said on a former occasion he repeated now, that as
free trade had received the unction of the ciuntry, and
been 'shred by that bouse, he thought it &tient tube afforded
• fair trial. He Lad not, in the remarks which hod fallen
from him, advocated pretection, but what he had said was
this—that he theueht at a misfortune that we had not • fixed
duty of 4s. or 5.. spun corn instead of 1.. (Hear, hear.)
The hon. member for the West Riding had put a case, and
he (Mr. Sandan) would put another. lie had seen in •
some., ova and over again, in which when the duty had
fallen here price • tad fallen abro td. Toe hon. gentle ran
would Remember that in March last year, when
the duty was reduced from 9.. to Is., there
had Leen a corresponding reduction in the pries of bread
abroad. (tweeter, and "A rise you mean.") No; he
meant a reduc ion. The duty on corn fell from 95. to le.
here, and the pr'co of corn abroad fell in a corresponding
ratio to wet the reduce price here. (Renewed. laughter.)
Hun. members might 'with, but he still repeated his asser-
tion that when prices fell in this country they fell in an equal
ratio abroad, and that the E mleth consumer would not have
to fay a Lathing mere for hi, bread whether the duty were
.51. or Is. (C.intinued laughter.)
Mr:PLUMP TRE was of opinion that the bon. mem-
btr for Wakefield was as free to address the house as
any other gentleman, and that the hen. member for the '
West Mein; seemed to lemur under the impression that he
was at libery to had everybody by the nose. (A laugh.)
Mr HUME said he should be extremely sorry if any
differences of opinion were to arise upon a misunderstanding.
His hen. friend (Mr. Cobden) had not denied the right of
the hon. member for Wakefield to address the house; he had
merely expressed his surlier' that the member fir a menu-
factunng town, who had professed free trade priocipl,s in
that town—three, dear)—should now propos, a duty of si.
on corn, and say that it that duty were imposed the con-
sumer would not pay anyth ng of it. His hon. friend tad
not cast the slightest re flection, but then he thought, and so
did many others, that it the duty were imposed, the con-
sumer would have to pay it. (He ar, hear )
A vote of 3,000,0001. out of the Consolidated Fund was
then put and agreed to, and the house resumed.
TRANSPORTATION FOR TREASON (IRELAND)
BILL.
On the motion for going into committee on this bill,
Mr. MOORE brit fly addressed the house in opposition to
the measure. He contended that the real question, divest d
of the prejudices and passions that surrounded it, amounted
t. this, whether the House of Commons, which had just re-
coreed its deliberate assent to the conspensetion of rebels at
the other side of the Atlantic, for losses sustained in a rebel-
lies against the authority of the crow., should now, in the same
breath proceed to pass a law which would inflict oa rebels at

this side of the atlantic a punishment which the existing law I
did not sanction. He would say that if they passed this
bill they would be giving a proof to Canada and the world,
that while they were ready to grant everything on the fron-
tier of the United States that the most odious rebel could
demand, they at the same moment were prepare Ito lean as
heavily as public opinion would allow on the rebel at home.
(Hear, hear.)
•

The house then went into committee on the bill, and the
preamble having been postponed,
On clans* one,
Mr. ANSTEY rose to move some amendments, of which
he had given notice. The preamble hiving been post-
poned, be proposei to leave cut the words " declared
and, ' which would take away from the bill its declara-
tory character, and make it simply en enactment. Sup-
pose it had been the ease of an Encli.limass, or a chartist,
the house would never have heard the last of it, even from
the gnat reform party, who were always either absent from
divisions of this kind, or present to swell the ministerial ma-
jority. (Rear, beer.) This bill went to inflict a punish-
ment which those to whom it applied declared to be worse
than death, and which was so represented by the inhabitants
of penal eettlemente, corroborated by the ofileial statements
of government officers. With angular inconsistency, minis.
tens now called on the house to sanction this disgraceful
punishment, by inflicting it on these unhappy Irishmen. The
provisions of this bill never had been the law. The punish-
ment of transportation was not a punishment known to the
common law. The goveramen' contemplated what was illegal
in altering the sentence to transportation without this act. Let
the government state openly what they meant. Let them
net say at one snd the same time that this was a bill
to alter the low and not to alter the law. (Hear, bear.)
He hoped they would not call on the Queen to do
violence to her own natural feelings of mtreys (Hear.) If
this measure passed, the English eoestituticA would be lost
—he begged pardon, not the English eonstitution, for this
measure extended oily to Ireland. (Bear, hear.) With a
great doubt of obtaining even a little mitigation of this bill,
he now proposed that the woes/ "declared and" be left
eat.

The ATTORNEY-GE,..SERAL would confine himself to'
the subject of the hon. and learned member's amendment, the
object et which was to convert the bill from a declaratory
law into a mere enactment. The hon. and learned member
had said that the bill was pressed with indecent haste. lie
denied, as far as that house was concerned, that anything
had been done by it to WILTrUIt such en observation—(hear)
—for there were no standing orders with respect to such a
bill, and, after hosing posed the second reading, they might
at once have proceeded to the other stages. He called on
the house to report the amendment of the hon. and learned
member.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said the bon. and learned gentle-
man (tile Attorney General) had given them • new ground
for opposing the bill. Necessity was called the plea of ty-
rants, to which a companion adage might be added, that in-
convenience is the plea of the law officers of the crown.
(Rear, bear.) The hen. and learned gentleman said it
would be ii convenient for a court of law to decide on this
case. What inconvenience could there be in deciding what
the law was by the existing tribunals of the land, whose
specific duty it was to do so. He protested against th's
appeal to parliament to cut a knot, which ought to have
been left to the judges of the land. (Heir, hear.)
Mr. MUNTZ regretted that he war not present when the
second reading; was proposed, as he should certainly have
voted against it. He should vote for the amendment.
Mr. MOORE said the hon. and learned gentleman (the
Astey General) had stated as the reISOIL why the bill had.
been orn
introduced, teat grave doubts had arisen with regard
to the existing law.
The ATTORNEY.GENERAL—I did not say " grave
doubts," but . doubts."
Mr. MOORE wished to know in what quarter those doubts
bad arisen ? (blear, hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—I have no difficulty in
answering the question. My reply is, in Ireland. (Hear.)
Mr. r. FRENCIi could not admit that the individuals
concerned might properly be regarded as under sentence of
death. A blunder had been cemented by the government
in communicating an intimation of pardon to the prisoners
before the proper time.
Sir G. GREY MA, that as his hon. friend considered the
royal word to have been pledged, be begged to state that the
communication made to the prisoners was, that the sentence
posed upon them would not be carried out, on the condition
that they should be transported. On that Fent he appealed
to the common sense of the house. (Hear, hear.) The hon.
and learned gentleman opposite ( Ur. Auste)) hail spoken
of this bill as one of a series of penal mertures. The
' object was simply to assimilate the law of Ireland ,to
that of Eaeland, and he presumed that the only
reason why the case had not been expressly prossided
fee by a statute was that the Irish legislature Lel no:
' contemplated that the crime of treason would ever be pa-
' wished with any other penalty than death. (Hen, heor.)
Mr. ANSTEY, in explanation, said be had given notice of
hie intention to ititrouuoe a bill to subnitute banishment or
imprisonment during the pleasure of the auvereiga for triune
portation.
Mr. E. B. ROCHE objected to the bill on the ground
that it was an et post flacon measure, intended to inflict •
punishment which could not be inflicted as the law now
stood.
Colonel DUNNE opposed the bill, from no sympathy with
the parties implicated, bet because he was anxious not to
sanction any ex post facto violation of the law of the lend.
The committee divided. The numbers were—
For the amendment 27
Against it
Mr. REYNOLDS then moved to insert, after the word
"offender," in the 9th line of the let page, the words, "who
may be hereafter convisted,and—." He considered that the
mionunate persons now under sentence, however culpable,
were not tl.c only peewee liable to blame. That house was
also liable to censure—the executive was liable to censure
that it had not earlier inter d the authority of the law
to puppets' tendenciesmanifestly treasonable and haurrec-
tionay.
Major BLACKALL said that every Irish member had
spoken spinet the bill ; he had taken a different course,
and intended to support the bill throughout its various
stages.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL begged to inform the hon. member
that goverons n' had confessed that it ,wes an e.e pat facto
law ; if it were not, why was not the punishment earned
out 1 Being an es post facto law, there could be no doubt
that it was uneonstnutional.
Mr. ANSTEY (amidst cries of . Oh, oh ") asked the hon.
=mire fir Sawed whether it was his intention to make his
customary meant of adjournmeet. If not, he should move
that the cnairmen now report progress.
Sir 0 GREY asked the hon. member whether hie inten-
tion was VP °minuet the course of the public business ? This
minter had been fairly discussed, and the Irish Poor-law
steel for next week.
Mr. ANSTEY said that on the notice paper there were
several emendmente remaining tube considered,the principal
of which had not been so much as noticed. The nest amend-
ment referred to the discrepancy between the preamble and
tie enacting part of the bill, and there were a variety cf
others to which it was necessary to draw the attention of the
house.
CA. DU NNE asked the right hon. baronet if he meant to
have a looming sitting on this bill ?
Sir 0. GREY said that, after the discussion on the second
reading, he thought it not unreasonable to propose that the
bill be now read • third time.
The house divided.—Ayes
divided.—Ayes
124-116

On our retten we found
Mr. ANSTEY again addressing the house, and moving in
committee that the words " For any offence whatsoever by
law punishable with death" be omitted, and to insert "For
high treason."
The committee divided.—For the amendment 19
Against it
The CHAIRMAN intimated to the hon. member for
Youghal that his next amendment could not be put, u not
being within the se ps of the bill. (The amendment
was, at line 15 to omit the word " transportation," and
insert "imprisonment during the Queen's pleasure, or ba-
nishment.")
Atter a few observations from Mr. ANSTEY,
Mr. LAWLESS moved that the chairman report pro-
gress.
Mr. MONSELL suggested to the hon. member to with-
draw his amendment, as being contrary to the repeated deci-
bi,ons of the hou.e.
Lord J. RUSSELL said there were two important stea-
-1 cures, the amendment of the kWh Poor-law, and tho pro-
-1 p,sal or a loan fur the extension of the Midland Railway to
Galway, which stood for next wale. Neither of these
1116SUIT11 would be 'introduced until this bill had been
disposed el.
Mr. LAWLESS withdrew his motion.
Mr. REYNOLDS asked, if the bill went through com-
mittee that evening, when would the third reading be taken ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said, the first thing on Monday next.
(Hear, hear.)
After a short conversation,
Mr. ANSTEY consented to withdraw his amendments,
with the understandiug that they wire to be re-introduced
03 the third reading. lie moved an amendment to the effect
' that nothing in the act should interfere with the exercise of
the prerogative of the crown in pardoning with or without
conditions to such offenders.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL objected to the proviso es
unneeegary.
Toe O'GORMAN MAHON hoped his hon. and learned
friend moult. not prose for a division.
Mr. RBYNOLDS joined in the request, as dii Sir F.
Tnusesta, who ktiked on the amendment as perfectly un-

neeemary.
Mr. ANSTEY did not agree with his hon. and learned
friend. The language of the bill was sufficiently obscure,
and his o'jec wee to remove doubts. (Cries of " Divide.")
As Irish members did not seem inclined to support him, he
would not incur Vie risk of going into the lobby alone.
amendment wee then put and negatived.
The rreannile of the bill was then agreed to, and the
bowie resumed, and the third reading wee fixed for Monday
Deli.
On tho motion of Lord J. Rottusztx it was ordered that
the huuse, at it rising, adjourn to Monday next.
TILE MUTINY AND DESERTION (INDIA) BILL.
Tule bill went thr. ugh committee. On one of the clauses,
Mr. ANSTBY corrected a statement he had made on a
previous occasion, that a courtemartial at which certain men
in India had been condemned to death, had been illegally
constituted, in consequence of the number of officers
constituting it being insufficient. He now found
that the law requiring that slumber of officer*

had not been passed until two years afterwards, therefore the
court martiel was lege/.
Sir J. C. HOBROUSE was OA the hen. and learned
member had d•rrec.ed the sts'ement, the more especially as
he had charged the execution of criminals legally condemned
as murder, whereas it eu known by all legal authorities
that the tribunal, and consequently the sentence and execu-
tion, were perfectly le-gal.
The Collection of B,:lea (Dublin) Bill wee referred to a
select committee.
The Faclesiaatic.al Jurisdiction Bill was read a third time,
and passed.
PALACE COURT (WESTMINSTER) BILL.
On the motion by Lord DUDLEY SII:AILT for committing •
this bill,
Sir F. THESIGER objectel to proceeding with it at that
late hour.
Mr. OSBORNE could yes no objection to proceeding with
the bill, which was neeessary to protect the public.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL observed that be should
move a bill next week to abolish the court altogether, which
this bill did not proper* to do. All it did was, to give a
power, by a sort of eide-w ind, to the defendant to remove the
cause into the county courts.
Sir F. TRIMMER said his object was to abolish the
court, but in doing so he desired to compensate putties who
had vested interests in their offices in connexion with the
court. The case of " Jacob Onanium," which had raised an
unfounded prejudice sguinst the court—that case had been
much exaggerated in the letter which bad been published.
He (Sir F. Tbesiger) happened to know that Mr. Jacob tha-
llium would have failed in any court.
Lord D. STUART observed that the question was not
one affecting only Jacob Osmium, but hundreds of poor
people who stsffered from the existence of the Palace Court,
than which there wn not a more odious institution in tho
country. It was a gross monopoly, which enforced the pay-
ment of heavy costs, or, in default thereof, had the power of
imprisoning for sums under 201.
After a few words from Mr. J. A. Soma and Mr.
()ODEON,
The bill was postponed until Monday.
RETURNS.
On the motion of L:trd 1) Stu:our, a return was ordered
of the pay and other allowances resp.airely of the four
Colonel Commandants of the R tj, al Anillery, namely
Oa-
sent Sir A. Farrington (of the battnlion), General It. Dou-
glas (driver), Lieutenant General Sir J. 111`1,,0d (of the
home), Lieutenant-General Shear ,et (of thebattalion),frous
11792 to 1844.
On the motion of Sir D. NOIIREYB, the following papers
were ordered ; Copies of the old torn of the index of names,
and of the new form of index lately s motioned by the Tree,
suety, in the It gistration of Deeds Otfiee in Dublin ; of any
statement laid before the Lords of the Treasury by the
Registrar of Deeds which led to their approval of it ; and
copy of any order or minute made thereon : and, extract of
so much of the Act 2 and 3 Will. 4, c. 87, as regulates the
form in which the index of names was required to be kept,
and of any subsequent act or minute of Treasury which
directed or sanctioned a deviation from this form.
The house adjourned ate quarter before 2 o'clock.

the ,v n=o*

OUTGOING MAILS.

The mails, via Marseille., to the Mediterranean, Egypt, Ceylon,
India, Mona-Kong, Mo., will bemade up an the Yith June.
The maths for Vigo, Oporto, Lisbn, Madeira• C.idia, and Gibraltar,
will be made up on the mooing of the 7th amuse.
Mane for linurti Norih Alpena. .1.1 Uhl united Mate: will be
ISACIdC up on the evening of the 29th of Jute.
The West India bawls, tin 'hates kitrlllllllS, Ravenna, Name.
Monduria, New (Memo, and Mexico, and ez•duding thkra for
Nadeise, tit„ Joon.de-Nicoragua, New Granada, Celli, and Peru, will
be made on on the morning of the 2nd July.
The mails for Madeira, the Breaths, and Wanes Ayres, willbe made
up on the evening of the 4th of July.

Inn H WATER AT WVIION ItRIDOIL
Tots n.,-11...11%0 45 els. WU 3; Afternoon. WM. Ow 4
Tu Kassuir—llareing, Sluts. past 4 ; AttoonoOn. Cn Isla•Paft 4

LONDON, &AMWAY, TONE 23.

TRE exhibition mule last nireht by Sir CHARLES
WOOD was one of the most pitiful ever made by a
Cuancellor of the Exch quer nrodueing a Ludget.
Were we enemies of the right honourable gen-
tleman, which we assuredly are not, we should
have enjoyed it; as it is the tease of pain and
commiseration preponderates. llis fellow-members
in the house listened in Wink inability to com-
prehend his meauSeig. 'rho r. p were in the gallery
looked at each other in despair, unticipating blame
for a bad report when there was nothing out of which
a report could be msde. After stamm sung and blun-
dering, nicking errors in addition, Irsiug hold of his
ideas and vainly trying to catch them again, for
about an hour, t.e CHANCELLOR OF TILE Ex-
CHEQUER resumed his scat, leaving his au-
ditors much more puzzled, but nearly as unin-
formed, as when he rose. Tho glimmering pereop-
lion of bits meaning which, after painful study, we
think we have attained to, fully accounts for his
embarrassment. The CHANCELLOR OF TILE EXCH.*.
QUER to the rump of the "peace, rcrenchmesit, and
reform" mini.try of 1830, might well bo overwhelmed
with shame on amount of the story he had to tell.
We may premise that our accounts of the present
state of affairs in the manufacturing and moot other
districts is decidedly favourable. From Livs rpool
and the mannfaeturirg districts we learn that men en
Waiters's, after passing from an epoch of positive
lass into ono of neither loss nor gain, have rinse
entered one of profi:s' though three profits are still
but moderate, From al! parts of tee country we aro
tuld that the artisan class are well twice ed and in
the receipt of unreduced wages, while the price of all
articles of consumption has fallen. And Sae CHARMS
Wool) confesses to a surplus of income over the
needlessly high expenditure of list 3 ear. 'rho
revenue of last vear, he said, " hasi k. tio in spite
of the various redoct ors which h d bs en made in the
duties upon different at t cies of consumption."
Yet all these favourable circumstances notwith-

staudin;, the CHAVCELLOR of tie Exciteriusn held
out no hopes of any dirninutiou of the national
burdens that can be sensibly felt by the hither.
trial classes. Ho talked, indeed, of a reduction of
expenditure to the amount of a million and a half.
But when he entered into details, it appeared that
the greater part of this reduction is promised on the
army, navy, and ordnance estimates, and the rest is
the result of the reduction of salaries in the con-
solidated excise and stamp department. Tha pro-
raise of reduction in our defensive establish-
ments may be regarded as utterly illusory. It is
the result of pinching and paring in minor details,
and shifting charges from one department to another.
So long as our armaments are kept on their present
enormous footing, no real economy can be effected
with regard to them. Sir CHARLES stated that tho
expenditure of last year was enhanced
nearly a million by excesses upon the estimates tor
the navy, arm, and ordnance. These excesses over
the estimates for our armaments have recurred year
after year ; they may be counted upon as certoioly as
the sums actually stated in the estimator. A Scotch
peasant when asked how far it is to any place, will
tell you so many miles " and a bittock;" the "bitto..k"
being about half as many miles more as the number
named. Oar whig financiers have got into a habit of
spending upon navy, army, and ordnance, the sums
foamed in the estimates "and a bittock." The " bit-
tack" will be sure to swallow up the pretended reduc-
tion. As to the reduced salaries, they have been of
course reduced at the expense of the poor working
officials; the great sinecunats and sembsinenerists
have, as usual, been left untouched. Such reductions
are no true economy in the end.
The reductions of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER are rat,k shams. No man—no class of men
will feel them in their pockets. They are to true
economy the equivocal homage which hypocrisy pops
to virtue. Sir CHARLES WOOD and his colleagues do
not even dream of real, effectual retrenchment: Ho

already affects to shudder at what he would have
men call his niggardliness. He went so far as to
apologise for keeping so small a surplus in hand, and
he followed up this amusing piece of audacity by
declaring that "with sa small a surplus it
would be Impossible to make icy changes of
taxation." In short, ministers will not grapple with
financial reform, in a large and sincere spirit. They
will not reduce our absurdly large armament", they
will rot place the salaries of high civil and diplomatic
functionaries on a reasonable tooting, they will not
re-adjust the incidence of taxation. They will try to
gull the public by fussy make•believe reductions, bat
with reel retrenchment they wilt have nothing to do.
It is irritating to see men who once called them-
selves friends of economy and retrenchment playing
such a miserable game. Mr. Hume showed that
from 1844 to 1848 (inclusive), the average
revenue has been as great as from 1824
to 1828 ; and six millions greater than it was
from 1834 to 1838. He showed that the average
expenditure from 1844 to 1848 was one million in
excess of what it was from 1824 to 1828 ; and six
millions in excess of what it was front 1834 to 1838.
He showed that the inoome of 1848 was seven mil-
lions greater than the income of 1835 ; and the ex-
penditure of 1848 ten millions greater than the ex-
penditure of 1835. And he showed that of these
ten millions of increased expenditure six were owing
to the increased cost of the army, navy, and ordnance.

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