The Express.
London, England, 1847-03-06 00:00:00

eke authority to whom he looked ; the cOmmtinication
be-
tween the two pieces was exceedingly slow ; and an smog
4.0 the superior authority in England was attended with I
rear's delay. One of the great difficulties In any gold
syL
tern of punishment, was that of finding proper agents to
carry it into operation ; he meant more especially subordi-
nate agen. The efficiency of a prison in this country de-
pended, so their lordships knew, almost as much upon
the of rior agents as upon the governor ; without
good overseers a was impossible for the
.best governor to
wry into effect a good system of discipline. In Van
Diernea's Lend the difficulty of obtaining trustworthy agents
was intioitely greater than in this country ; and in Norfolk
Island it had been rester still. In the first place, until
lately, every kind of labour woe so highly remunerated in
these colonies that a salary, which in this country would
secure the services of • first-rate person in his rank
of life in Van Diemen's Land or New South Wake
would do no such thing; and hi. noble friend
(Lord Stanley) was aware that formerly it frequently
happened that the government clerks and officer* were
tempted away by superior offers. Then. again, in a small
colony like Van Diemen'. Land, where party spirit and
divisions ran very high, it was extremely difficult to get
officers who, however free from them at first, did not, in
time, become implicated in local dieputes. The governor
had by no means the same authority that existed at home.
He could only suspend au officer. That power was exercised
with great hesitation, and a ith considotable difficulty ;
and, as it was always liable to be reversed by
the decision of the bieretary of State, an officer
was hardly ever suspended, utiles. upon a very clear
case of misconduct. If en officer dial, the difficulty of
-filling up bi+ place was alimot insuperable ; It frequently
required a reference home and the sending out of another
person, involving • twelvemonth's delay, and in the mean-
time the greatest inc mveuience was suffered. As regarded
Norfolk Island, very few such men as they would like to
employ would consent to live in such a place, cut off, as they
must be, (ram almost all civilised society, and having nobody
to associate with except • few officers in the same service, and
the criminal of whom they lied the c, arge. He helieved it
was hardly possible that any man, however estimable he
might have been at first, could be subjected to such entire
exclusion from civilised a ciety without his moral qua-
lities suffering from the atmosphere in which he was placed.
This was most important consideration, and he beli red
that the reason why it was so much more easy to obtain
proper odieers iii this country, wee, that they were not ex-
cluded from social intere.arse with men who were neither
employed in the convict ...mice nor yet tainted with crime.
Now, these considerations had led her Majesty's government
to the conclusion that, by thv abolition of the system of as-
signment, the really penal part of tmnspottatim came to be
neither more nor lean than forced labour and imprisuoneent,
and that this change having taken place, if these were to be
the main elements of punishment, such punishment could
bo far more safely and effectually indicted at home than at
a distance. Here there would be a close superintendence of
the practical working of the system, a power of im-
mediately checking soy abuses which might arise,
of immediately replacing any officer who was found
inefficient, and correcting any errors which might have been
committed in drawing up the regulations under which the
prison discipline was introduced; in fact, all those advan-
uges which he had shown to be altogether wanting in the
colonies would be enjoyed to the fullest extent at home.
Bush, aeeordingly, was the determination to which the go-
vernment had come. Continuing to look upon penal labour
and imprisonment as the main elements of punishment, it
was proposed that they should be carried into effect here.
It was intended that no efforts should be spared
to • reader that description of punishment as effec-
tual as possible, both for the purpose of deterring
offenders from crime, end for that of reforming those who
had fallen into mime. With this view it was proposed that
the criminal sentenced to transportation should undergo,
for a period longer or shorter according to the nature of his
crime, what was called separate oonhnement; that no cri-
minal whatever who had been sentenced to transportation
should escape some portion of that species of confinement
The experience of the loot three or four years was meet
smarm-tory as to the effects of separate confinement • it moo
proved to be most effectual, both in deterring offenders awl
in reforming those who were capable of reformation. (Hem,
hear.) Bet at the same time he was bound to say that that
was a punishment which required to be carried into effect
with great eaution—(hear, hear)—and which ought under
no circumstances to be prolonged beyond a comparatively
short period. He the refore proposed that, while every pre
eater should be subji eted to separate confinement, none
should be so for any longer term than eighteen
months; that that should be the very longest
term for offences of the gravest kind : and for minor offences,
for instance, offences for which a sentence of seven years
was passed, the period would generally be more limited.
With proper e pre on the part of the medical officers, and
while the governor of the prison watched the effect in par-
timer cases, be believed that eight, en months would be
sufficiently safe. That be believed was the opinion of the
oonsmissioners of Pentonville Prison; and be understood
that Mr. Brodie and Dr. Ferguson, while they earnestly
protested against the extension of separate confine-
ment beyond eighteen menthe, were of opinion that
that period, provided in individual cases the health of the
prisoner were carefully watched, would not be too long. It
was clear, however, that if separate confinement were to be
restricted to the term he had mentioned, the man who bad
been guilty of a very heinous offence should not be dis-
charged immediately : for example, in an aggravated
case of manslaughter, where the jury had hesitated whether
they should find • verdict of manslaughter or murder, and
had only been swayed by some nice point in the prisoner's
favour, and where the result had been transportation for life,
in such a ease separate confinement for eighteen months
would be a most inadequate punishment. It was
therefore proposed, that, besides a period of separate
confinement, every offender when discharged from Pen-
toaville or any other prison should undergo a further
period of punishment by labour on public works. He was
aware that there was a strong impression that that was a
punishment liable to great objection. It was a punishment
which had been fully carried into effect on board the hulks,
and to which, objections, and, he felt bound to say, as it was
formerlyadministered, very just objections., were entertained.
But the objections in the case of the hulks rather applied
to the manner in which the punishment was inflicted than
to the nature of the punishment itself. He did not
believe that penal labour, and convicts being
allowed to associate together necessarily produced evils like
those to which he referred. Formerly the labour of con.
vies at the hulks was the result of coercion ; the fear of the
lash was almost the only motive held out. The accommo-
dation also on board the hulks was very inefficient ; the
number of officers and superiutendents was very much leas
than it ought to have been ; the wader and religious instruc-
tion was very inadequate; the whole system, in short,
required great alteration. But of late years much im-
provement had been ell ceted, and he believe* that
improvement might be carried still further. The
government proposed that convicts should be employed
on public works, under a system by which they hoped the
evils which generally arose from the association together of
large masses of convict., would, to • great extent, be
avoided. In the first place, they thought it would greatly
contribute to that end, that every, prisoner had undergone a
preliminary and preparatory period of separate confinement.
He believed that, except in the case of some of the most
obdurate, an impression would be made during the period of
separate confinement which would greatly facilitate the
esetintananee of a proper system of discipline subsequently; and
thtoe who mimonducted themselves when employed on public
works wield always be liable to he sent back, for a longer
er sissgeriod, according to the gravity of the offence, to
the confinement from which they had been released.
But be looked to moat was an ireprevement in the
=pesystem under which the work was carried on. Their
were, no doubt, sears that within the last few
yeses, a plea had been proposed by Capt. Maconochie,
white bed attracted considerable attention. That plan, as
Ivied under the inventor's own superintendence in Ire-
land. we far from being successful • end although
Copt. Mostmochie alleged that he had hid difficulties to
saseisise which would account for the failure, yet he wee
bead to ery that, on looking at the whole history of the m-
=itend considering the opinion which bad been
y penors who had had the greatest experience is
the menagersent of convicts, he was impressed with the °m-
oieties that the plan would not work satisfactorily. At the
tame time, be thought there was much in Captain
Meeemechie's plan that was worthy of attention. I
am. at his suggestions were highly valuable, and he be
beamed *Antoci* was in itself sound and good. That
=le believed to be, that the convicts employed on pub-
shield have a direct interest in their own good
ommtest, set only as regarded the abridgment of the
Le whisk they were sentenced, but as regarded more Imr
dials advemerges. That principle he believed to be masa-
Melly seed, and it had been already tried with great advan-
tage with respect to the convicts in Bermuda and Gibraltar.
The lacer in those places was performed by task-work, se
that the convicts had en interest in the magma
et latent they performed, and the work dims
in those places was of great value. list ontg
did it pay for the whole cost of their mainteneme emlespee-
intendenoe, but left the convicts thematdvse a esesiimates
weal gain. O
tear years, the avenge phi meths son- '
wide so 'employed wee 421., being more them In a ystr, alter '
paybg the eat otassintsasnos and supsvieinsimes. (Hear,
kw.) This iimwed the advantage of a spa= this kind
is proneetiag the benefit of convict; semlitettgit be laid
acme es a rule that where the ramble Meet wtively cm-
is labour, the system of dildfibe 01110, was mend.
the value of the work done we mill, es in Van
Diermea's Land, there the discipline meeldritioland lax and
inellkient. (Hear, her.LHitherto tie et a man's
mimes was not made nd
a"
'mg
le was "01.7" 011=asalbr----116 induce:is-
=ilmChet this wm we of Capri lEfroasellays
othish might kw alerted.
low It vene to ambit
:raes lima the hoe= aoseminkikes
mose earn at the -fast
mist; bathe thsegla Set
issr
ecti = =
ghis
to be edepapi, mei Ihet *me he •
(Seen Use.) A optima et Mt mode, ft
worked eml lemird inte What, eenbibate to esehmill=
of this demlption ettromely easel& es a punkin's& He
had met stated what the of employmeet
apes the works we, peeled of
temp mummus
lama: well, sed mho did ad lasts fruit
wep rks Ilaidresa
610/1•12/4ikumbill NllllrasbUtigiminatat
half the paled for Alb he wee emenmed. Time, it a nme
ere t • weayere trampurtatton, and it he see-
islet limit wall eniff wee kedestrioos, he might slight
lb Abater at a pitied at these years and ashalt or bar
yews from the emesemeoseme et kb penishaessfr In
anisiVedifavderesei Mete ea
the ettrunsperbelee,b=
jectimeitie Sett it mewl vtitheeteemetese-
peneethe sibuntegit_ wee thie—thet ammt
hi sheresterlilesesdby telegeenvisteleadpmnelrd
fm mt mese, Mimi sR the mews to eepleyon dosed

against him in this costal. wigs- the psried et iNos sestesee
expired, however reformed ha shightE fissislt desirous
of becoming a useful sissibsr . Is the intense
competition for employment mild alt Is this couivry he
was detested, his charmers meeting Mos as every attempt,
atil he believed it was Drees this COMM that many persons
who had been punished, and desired to amend, had been
again led into criminal courses. (Hear, hear.) But in the
colonies labour was in such demand that a man, however
criminal, had no difficulty in finding employment; and he
might there restore himself to a respectable condition of life.
That was one redeeming point in the old system of transpor-
tation. There were several instances of persons in New
South Wiles and Van Diemen's Land, who, having obtained
tickets of leave, had become honest and industrious, and
accumulated large fortunes. In one respect this was carried
to an extent which was injurious, because he remembered on
one occasion seeing a letter fromi a convict, which stated,
" You remember so and so, who was transported ; he
keeps a gig, and is a thriving gentleman." (Laughter.) A
letter of that kind was not calculated to make trans-
portation a formidable punishment. But it was an
advantage to criminals that they should be placed
in a situation where they would have an opportunity of
raising themselves in life. They therefore proposed that
the crimioals, in the latter portion of their punishment on
the public works, should be allowed wages nearly to the full
value of their labour. The greater part of the means thus
earned, instead of being given to them, would be allowed to
accumulate, so that at the expiration of their sentence they
might have the means of emigrating ; and following up the
system in force in the colonies, it was proposed
that the men who earned the means of paying
ti,eir own eialgriktion expenses shoal,: receite a con-
ditional pardon—the condition being that they should
not remain in England. Having received this conditional
pardon, they might go to Australia, where they would be
free men to all intents and purposes except that they could
not return to this country. which, he 'believed, they would not
themselves wish to do. In the same manner it was proposed
to give a conditioi al pardon to offenders at the termination
of their employment on the public works in this country.
He was eneouriged. to hope that this system would be
attended with beneficial results with regard to the exiles from
Pentonville. The mound respecting those who had bees
sent to Port Philip were of a satisfactory kind. They were
less aatistactory with respect to those who had been sent to
Van Diemen's Land, on account of the unsatisfactory state of
things which existed there when they arrived, there being
considerable difficulty in finding employment there. By
the last returns. thero were no less than 3,000 persons in the
hiring gangs for whom no employment could be found.
, When these persons were subject to a punishment not only
of a reformatory kind; butof a kind which would teach them
those branches of industry which were of most value to the
colonies, be had no doubt when they arrived in Australia
that they would be welcome to the inhabitants, particularly
when they had their families with them, for it was not pro-
pssed that they should go without their families. With
respect to the exiles from Pentonville, it was found impos-
sible to allow the families to go with them, without making
the punishment nugatory. But that objection would aot
apply in the present case, where the convicts would be kept
at work for a long period, and would have to pay the ex-
pellees of the passage. He attached great importance to the
circumstance of the families going out with them' because
to go on with a system which would keep up the frightful
inequality of the sexes which existed in Australia, would, he
thought, be inexcusable on the part of parliament. (Hear,
hear.) But not only would the discipline be reformatory,
but the offenders would receive an industrial and intellec-
tual education: each person would be taught how to
read and write, and to know his responsibility to his
Creator. He would also be instructed in some
p.rticular trade which was likely to be of use in the colo-
nisi. In this way they would prepare a clam of convicts
whose going to the colonies would not, he was
_persuaded,
be attended with any disadvantage whatsoever. This would
be still more the WC if they were not ' as convicts
on their arrival, and he thought there woo d be no difficulty
in making arrangements by which the convicts going out in
an emigrant vessel would be undistinguished from others on
board. Of course, in many cases it would be known that
they were convicts, but if their general conduct u a class
was such as he trusted it would be, the prejudices against
them on that account would soon be got over. At the pre-
sent moment, public meetings were held in Port Philip in
favour of a larger number of exiles being sent out. It wu
of importance that it should be clearly understood that this
emigration was not to be considered a part of the
punishment which the offender wee to undergo, hut was
intended as a security to society, lest they should relapse into
crime, and also for their own advantage; sod therefore
those convicts whose future good conduct might be depended
upon would be relieved from the necessity of emigration, and
their sentence would be complete when they passed from the
public works on which they were employed. He bad now
to point out the mode by which it was intended to carry this
stem
at
e reto
were/foL In
...the preset year it w
available
nby whichi evaaery lated
%convict
sentenced to transportation could be made to undergo the
preliminary period of separate prison confinement. The
Pentonville, Parkhurst, Millbank, and county prisons, would
be sufficient for this purpose. There would be no difficulty
in carrying out this part of the sentence with respect to con-
victs senteneed in Great Britain. In Ireland he was sorry to
say this was not at present the case. But no time would be lost
inisuilding a prison in that country similarto the Pentonville
one, so that he hoped they would soon have accommodation
in that country for separate convict discipline also. With
regard to the employment when they passed out of separate
confinement, examination had been made into the available
means at the disposal of the government and the probable
demands upon these means. His right hon. friend, the
Secretary of State for the, Home Department, was of opi-
nion that no serious difficulty would arise on this point.
It would be necessary, at first, to make use of the hulks;
but in doing so everything would be done to improve the
system on board the hulks, and every precaution taken for
the maintenance of discipline. He admitted that the hulks
were, after all, a bad system, and was of opinion that prisons
on shore should be substituted. (Hear, hear.) Preparations
for this purpose were in progress, and wooden buildings
would be erected.

The Duke of WELLINGTON. Why not iron
(Laughter.)
Earl GREY mid, the reason was, that, upon making in-
, quiriee, they found that wood was better and, cheaper. The
large works at Portland would afford the means of employ-
ment to many convicts, and in all probability it would be
adopted as a permanent convict establishment, for which it
possessed many advantages. They could also be employed
upon harbours of refuge. and upon the fortifications, which
he was aware the noble duke was anxious to see carried for-
ward with speed. It was calculated that the labour of
these convicts would be fully equal to the cost of their main-
tenance and superintendence, and every other charge. Such
were the measures which he propelled to adopt with regard
to male adult convicts. With regard to female convicts, it
' was intended for the present that they should continue to
be sent to Van Diemen's Laud, for the improvement of the
condition of the convicts of which place considerable pains
had been taken. (Hear.) With regard to the class of juve-
nile offenders, some considerable modifications of the system
which he had described would be neessvy, but be felt
it would be inexpedient to enter upon that subject now, as it
would be brought under their consideration at an early period.
Having now stated the grounds on which her Majesty's go-
vernment thought that a change of policy with respect to
male adult convicts ought to be adopted, he begged leave,
without further observation, to propose the second reading
of the bill (Hear, hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM said that nothing could be more
satisfectory to him than to express his approval of the
bill, and( of the clear, distinct, and candid statement
of his noble friend. (Hear, hear.) He would not enter
into the subject at all further than to sato the
doubt which arose in his mind in to the espedi-
eney of abolishing deportation altogether as a peniehment.
In 1833, his much lamented and revered friend and colleague,
the noble earl's father, agreed with him in approving of the
opinions that had been put forward ea this subject in a pam-
phlet of Arehhishop Whateley's, esesgt ea regarded trans-
portation, whisk dew were unwilling te give up in all cases.
Although it co& Wilma to be ramrod to, he was of opinion
that there we as slosh go is nriskstiss it se 'punishment.
(Hear, hoar.) His oblestiso to slopertitha in a staple
punishoost, was, that it woo unholy sod insurably une-
qual la id Nowt of a puablionsat, insonnsis ors to ass per-
son it soislit moor this gran* poishoosi nod to death,
to saran a Indian °WO of tenor; mimeos, to
a third ,porsen, so pohlonsO at all.
(Hear.) Novertholsomit (278;:t think k ought to be
shoo np al so a ponibniot. Tho• with tepid
to MOW le agreed . with those who held the
opse:irsa that _ pookhosom et death night, in-
to be sporisly foillotod, but yet he weld not give it
up on a none of deterring from crime. He
proishoonttransportation might be
111.11srths tho .prior maks of life who
ip it in the FOAM plisithsent next to death.
Oran mohlhotoos, who woos
_suilty of fraud, might be
sablerAsi to HO poithoon. The receivers ctf stolen goods,
who sailed on their detestable trade, and with whoa the
law and the obsinistolom of the law were in
osollist, is whisk he ash hand the Otter we. riolo-
toeing, night be salgost to ist.se=z4llds
wo fowled lots posse= ce et so small
rosoulses is paid of who hod a arida stoilios sod
"Mr"' pash 664/147. sod Is than a
soatoon of emporiums kw Nib or kr hatless pun
would be the greatest of poddrosots. Thar ollhodsrs
were the pabulum, thereat and maws of all the
eementitted by Wens. (Her ham) Ho hadVrra:
doubts respeadsi the node of ijortotio. It no said this
was est to be onsidsrod a put the prodshook, and that
do sonviols &mkt he soot O so emigrant ship, sad their
r- kept onosalsd. B. thought his noble friend was
nowise the thin mem tee woorolostrod, if he expected
that tab nth' to kept seastakd, spodelly as they were to
have *sir OEMs' with this, mho indeed, their mouths
Inn Mb* illopprd. (A kingh.) Ho thosplet the consequence
would bo, thi a line of operation Weal ho drawn woo
the lob of the vessel kr the two alone d e*granta.
Ho sold ost onosive it poolhis SO la tho yam 1647 they
wen to now the penal pasiimint at the Mask law—
dist s t brainasna—which arm la the dam a flit Gorge
lassissosta, ono of ths old Matinsl writais, was &moral-
sood iminnens kr soh he described it to be ; and he said
sany...6o Mans a sans at whisk two card play. ft,
..
to whisk asaviar Wan sent right, in Yalu%
-nrier—aar rhea= be am shorn Hr. flanison, ass
off
the Jaime willies en the sallast, alma inedbai it as ea
Zealnailarat, wide bra rag rasa nesnisa as
urbosholoa. As soon so Os pima r
an In this
=was nor, dm ossolot woo to sr Me. rt It was
Is be no pen al ire pnalthrent, sirmigh ft
was le be sesepolory. Dee," the melee wield lay, "if
has part of the Onnrooft, I went go." "Oh " the
ant would rspO, "but you oast" " man,- the reloindsr
itould be, "it in part of Os puthismont." The sinks sari
mid it was Gel, to peeving Ids limning again Why, not
arscarts would equally may W the panihront of death.