The Express.
London, England, 1848-02-15 00:00:00

tioa than the 'liege of Troy; and, a far heavier charge, had
permitted Mr. Barry to involve the country in an outlay
which, so far from keeping within the original estimate
of tinder a million, threatened, before the work was
completed, to reach beyond four millions. (Hear, hear.)
With buten° etception—thatof Lord Thincannon—theChiel
Commissioners of Woods and Forests had, one MUT another,
overcome by the blandishments of Mr. Barry, a second
Amphion, permitted that gentleman to follow exactly his own
will is arrangement and re-arrangement and expenditure,
and kis own pace in progress. In 1836, Mr. Baring obtained
the sanction of the house to Mr. Barry's estimate of 700,0001.
for a esestnsetion which was to be completed in six years
front the laying the foundation—a period, however, formally
unascertainable, since the clerk of the works imitating
the spirit of his employer. had condescended to take no note
of the event. By 1843, the outlay already exceeded
1,400,0061. As 'an illustration of the mariner in
which tee whole thing was carried on, he would
mention, that after an expenditure of more than 4,000/
upon • party of geologists, sent on a mission to
aseettain the best sort of stone to adopt, it turned out that
the item actually adopted wan of a kind wholly uncalculated
for permanence of duration. The bon. member next ad-
verted to the items for ventilation, warming, and rendering
fire proof : the estimate for these was 86,0001., and a very
tolerable estimate too. On these items there had already
been expended upwards of 111,0001., and, according to the
architect's statement there still remained an undefined
atnosat of expendieure under the same items, so that, before
the building was completed there might be another 100,0001.
required for ventilating, warming, and fire-proofing. (Hear,
hear.) The mention of ventiletion brought biro to the
grand ventilator, Dr. Reid, and his *Tabbies with Mr.
Barry. Now, the squabeles between Mr. Barry sad Dr.
Reid were of more importance to the house and
to the public than might, at first sight, appear
probable. For what was the case? These squabbles,
it bad been 'hated by inquiry, had delayed the
progress of the building for no leas a time than clear
ninemonths. This delay of nine months, independently of
the other great incouvesiences and heavy expenditure it had
occasioned, had had moth to do with the necessity for hiring
committee roams, and when it was recollected that the cost
of hiring committee rooms during the past session had beer.
no lees than 200,0001., the house might perhaps, combining
this eocaideration with others, think that possibly the bast
way would be to amnia both architect and ventilator. Mr.
Osborne next adverted to the extreme inconvenience which
the Speaker, Mr. Ley, tree
c'i Clerk, end other officials,
eet
had been subjectedby Dire es procrastination, which
personal incenveuience teas: was attended with
a oast to the country, Ms shape of allow-
ances for house rent, ee mare thane 5,0001. per
annum. In 1842, in psuenanee of a suggestion front the
Speeher, the Woods and Forests had obtained an estimate
from, Mr. Berry of an Mikis' residence within the new
houses for the chief clerk. The emulate lursithed was
2,0001., and the house was to be ready in 18 neradee. The house
was no more ready now than then; so that had been an
outlay of 500/. per annum for 7 years, or 3,5001. altogether,
simply because Mr. Barry chose to consult his own fancies
and will. There had been much laudation of the frescoes
in the other hours ; he (Mr. Osborne) was not a man of
taste, and would not, therefore, venture an opinion on the
subject, farther than the saying that, as a member of the
house, he could not vote for the appointment on • com-
mittee of taste of the gentlemen who lauded the fres-
coes. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) But as to the
frescoes, in relation to the progress of the building,
he decidedly objected to the proportion advanced by Mr.
Barry, that there must be more ventilation and re-arrange.
meats, hero:vilify great delay and great expense, merely for
the purpose of preserving these precious frescoes. (Hear,
hear.) What, on this subject, said Lord Sudeley—at all
eveats as Reed &judge of frescoes and of architecture as Mr.
Barry ? Why, Lent Sudeley, before the committee of 1844,
said that if the new houses of parliament were mean: as ex-
hibitions of the fine era Mr. Barry's view on the point.
might be a correct one so era,
but that he himself regarded
the new houses of parliament in a different light, and con-
siderei that the tine arts, while adapted in the way of em.
belishment, were not to supersede every other consideration,
or to interfere with arrangemeuta otherwise desirable.
(Hear, hear.) Mr. Barry, however, upon all occasions, put
forward the orders of the fine arts committee as a
reason for this or that alteration, or addition, or
deviation, and the result would be an additional
outlay of some 200,0001. for mere whims. (Hear,
hear.) I' As to what anything would cost, however,
this nobody knew, the architect team of all persona, the Chit
Conunieioner of Woods and Forests—the responsible lune-
tionary—excepted. Mr. Barry, when raked by one of the
committees shat he thought would now be the expense,
coolly answered th a he bad not the slightest idea on the
subjeot—that he could not even guess what would be the ul-
timate cost. (Hear, hear.) And as to the noble Chief Com-
missioner of Weevils and Forests, he declared himself wholly
unprepared to assist Mr. Barry in his calculations, and, in-
deed. distinctly repudiated any knowledge of the
matter whatever—an abnegai ion which at once
suggested a strong douet as to the utility of the office
which he repreanted. (Hear, hear.) Yet Lord Duncannon
had in the most distinct manor r userted, not merely the
right of the Woods and Forests department to coutrol the
architects of ane works, but their bounden duty to do so
(Hear, hear.) The committee of 1814, in their report, had
sated that during the progress of the building of the new
houses_ , certain deviations and alterations had been made by
Mr. Derry without any authority from the government.
Yet from that time to this, no public functionary had called
the attention of the house to these alterations and deviations.
With moppet to the delay that had taken place in completing
the new houses of parliament, what, let him ask, was the
house led to expect in the year 1836 would be the term
which the new buildings would require for their entire com-
pletion ? The bon. baronet beow him (Sir R. highs) would
remember in common with himself that six years was the
extreme limit of time fix, d by Mr. Barry for the house to be
in the occupation of the members ; and further, he recol-
lected that on the occasion when this statement was made,
Mr. Barry volunteered the assurance that from the time that
the foundations were laid, there would only elapse a period
of two years before the committee-rooms would be ready
for the reception of members. (Hear, hear.) But then there
arose a delay and a difficulty in laying the foundations
of the house, and in the year 1846, when Mr. Barry was
asked when the foundations were laid, he replied that he
could not tell, for he kept no diary of the pregreis of the
works. Would any private gentleman act upon such a plan
in his own building? (Hear, hear.) In point of fact, the
architect, and all those who were officially concerned in the
buildings, had (been annually subjected to • running fire of
questions respecting the opening of the new houses which
they had found it very inconvenient to p irry. In 1812 his
hon. friend on his left (Mr. Hume) received for answer from
Lord Lincoln, then at the head of the Woods rind Forests,
the reply that he had seen Mr. Barry on the very day the
question as to when the house would be opened was put,
and that he assured the house the buildings would be ready '
for their n caption in 1845. So, again, in the year 1845,
the honourable member for York repeated the same
question, and he was assured, in precisely the same terms
as before that there was no reason why the houses should not
be ready by 1847. Mr. Barry himself, when asked by the
lords' committee at what period he expected the House of
Commons to be ready, answered, that be had not the smallest
idea (a laugh); and lastly, Lord Morpeth had very ree,ntly
assured hon. members that the house would be ready, but sit
what period tLe noble lord had totally omitted to suite. So
that the house and the country were as much is the dark on
this paint as ever. There was soother point to which be
begged to draw the attention of the noble lord, namely, as
to the accounts funn.hed of the money paid for the new
buildings. There was an item of 25,0001. paid to the archi-
tect, on account of hie remuneration for superintending the
construction after the original plan. But it was stated
in a note that this sum had not been accepted
by Mr. Barry as a payment in full for his services.
how he (Mr. B. Osborne) distinctly assured the
committee that 25,0001. was to be the utmost limit of
the remuneration to be received by him, sod a letter
written by the late Earl of Desaboruugh was on record,
wherein that noble lord stated that Mr. Barry had no claim
whatever beyond the 25,0001. agreed to be paid on the ap-
proval of his plan by both houses of parliament. In answer
to this letter Mr. Derry said that he acceded to the award,
although the amount was below what was customary for
architects to receive, and that he did so because h, found
it was considered by the government to be a liberal remu-
neration ; and not only did the board of commissioners
think the payment liberal, boa when the sum was ape cified
to Sir Benjamin Stephenson and Mr. Milne!, they were
also of oeinien it was quite sufficient. Having thus laid the
various facts connected with the subject before the house, he
could only empress his acknowledgments for the courteous
attention with which his statement bad been received, and
await the information which the government might think
proper to give. (Cheers.)
Lord MORPETH said that his hon. friend bad misstated
the tune In which the answer of Lis noble friend at the head
of the treasury, and his own reply to the question of the
other evening, were given in ascribing • sneer, to either of
them. (Mr. B. Osborne obeerved that he qualified them se
being jeerer.) It was not to he argued from the purpor se
what had fallen from his noble friend or himsell that they
bad no control over the expenditure, and the answer which
was Riven must be understood as simply meaning to say
that in respect to so vast • building as the houses of parlia-
ment neither his noble friend nor himself could undertake
to guarantee that 1,400,0001. would be the utmost limit of
expenditure. His hon. friend had been very severe upon
the public department with which he (Lord Morpeth)
had the honour to be connected, and he seemed to
say that it ought to be abolished. But when his how
friend blamed the Commissioners of Woods and Forst.,
and expressed a wish that parliamentary commissioners had
been appointed to watch over the progress of the new houses
of parliament, he appeared to have totally forgotten that the
building had beers carried on under the auspices and the
control of a commission appointed by parliament, which had
seported from time to time respecune the progress of the
works. He was perfectly of accord with the hon. member
that the original estimate sent in by Mr. Barry was 707,0004
whilst the sum advanced for the building was 808,0005,
being 101,0001. in excess. But it must be stated that endows
items were included in this amount, which had no referent*
whatever to the architect's estimate, such, for instance, eel
the cost of embankmenteconstniction of sewers, building ad-
ditional residences, and also the decorations and furniture of
the Howe of Lords, and wheethase sums were deducted, there
nly remained the gam of 430,0001. advanced on account of the
original estimate. Mr. Barry had been blamed much more
than he deserved on this account, and therefore ft was due
to him to state that the sum mentioned was all that had been
advanced towards the completion of the original designs.
He would not enter into the subject of the style of architec-
ture, touched upon by his hon. friend, nor into that of the
Fine Arts Communion. All he would say was, that although
the present government was not responsible for the appoint
meat of that committee, he was nevertheless of opinion that
the country at large would not
th respond to th
ofe ridicule which
h
his hon, friend had cast upon e works art