The Express.
London, England, 1851-07-18 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, JULY 18, 1851.

in postale:7 matters. He bid always thought of hits as an
etireisat el Ow church ; be had arrived at aa soar
Wad
amid
70, with a wire nine and sir
realer, and be enamel Itset Ineenvealsat any
triniestions wbldt the Yea. member Am Cockermouth
had driesbt it was time duty is Twitr meter the notice of
the hems on this amiss amid, her one moment, cast
on. diode of deed* WIN tbst aped= reputation. (Hear.)
He Mug my that with tempest le this transaction the part
which he had primarily Man led him to entertain no
suspicion whatever either albs motives or of the conduct
of the right rev. prelate. He had no doubt, from the
terms of the resolutions to which he wagon assenting party
that his legal and equitable right to exercise the right
whichhe posaased over the manor of Horfield was undoubted.
He, after full inquiry, satisfied himself that his right, legal,
and equitable was indisputable. He was satisfied that it
was the intention of the Bishop of Gloucester to apply the
fund which would have arisen to purposes conducive to
the benefit of the church and of the diocese. He was sorry
they could not have a free conference, because the hon.
gentleman would then have found that the bishop would
meet him on equal terms in a common tribunal; he would
find those right rev. prelates to be as acute as he was.
(Cries of Hear, hear," amidst much laughter.)
But he appealed to them whether it was • worthy act to
hold up the Bishop of Gloucester as a robber and plunderer ?
(Cheers.) His bitterest enemy in any grade of life would
hardly condescend to attack his character in such a way;
and he
.(Sir James Graham) almost blushed to hear such
expressions as had been used. (Cheers.) He could only say
be had satisfied I imself that the bishop had a legal and
equitable right to deal with the estate; the bishop was
aware of that right, and he (Sir James Graham) hail reason
to know that he intended to use it. He altogether disbe-
lieved that either Bishop Grey or Bishop Allen had hesi-
tated in the least as to their right to exercise a similar
power. He did not believe that Lord Melbourne ever im-
posed any condition such as had been spoken of. Ho did
not believe that Lord Melbourne had any reason to make
that stipulation; and if he had it would have been a viola-
tion of the law. (Hear, hear.) Besides, he did not think
that it was consistent with the high and generous character
of that noble lord to impose such a condition. (Hear,
hear.) Ile thought, too, that the evidence was conclusive,
that the bishop's
..predecessors did not exercise the powers
they possessed, simply because they did not obtain • hat
they considered its lull value. He believed, with his right
hon. friend, that the Bishop of Gloucester, in the step he
had taken, had placed himself in the position both of lessor
and lessee, and could exercise testamentary power complete
it all its parts. His (the right honourable baronet's) firm
belief was, that while the right reverend prelate
would not yield to pressure, nor by giving up anything ap-
pear to justify the aspersions which had been cast upon
him, he would, nevertheless, use the legal and equitable
right which he possessed over the estate in a manner that
would neither be unworthy of his high position nor disad-
vantageous to that sacred institution of which he was the
trustee. (Cheers.) He (Sir J. Graham) should be very much
disappointed if the event did not prove as he had said,
and the Bishop of Gloucester might well be content to leave
to the event such charges as this which had been brought
against him by the hon. member for Cockermouth. lie
had lived down all similar accusations up to the present
time, and his reputation would survive unblemished, for his
acts would falsify the predictions of his enemies. (Cheers.)
Sir B. HALL hoped that the government would appoint
a commission to inquire into the whole temporalities of the
church,
_____ . . .

Sir It. INGLIS trusted that, if the government listened
to this advice, they would not proceed upon the suggestion
which had been thrown out that evening, that this bishops
were creatures of the state.

Mr. AGLIONBY inquired of Sir J. Graham, who had
affirmed the legality and equity of the bishop's right, whe-
ther he was equally satisfied that it was a moral right ?
Mr. MANGLES reiterated the question.
Sir J. GRAHAM read the rewlution to which he had
been a party at the Ecclesiastical Board, awl which declared
that the bishop was under no obligation, legal or equitable,
to deal with llorfield otherwise than with any other estate ;
and added, that he had offered it to the Ecclesiastical Com-
missioners on very low terms, below the market price.
Mr. REYNOLDS complained of the enormous endow-
ment of the established church of Ireland—the church of

the minority.
Mr. LENNIRD considered Sir James Graham's answer
evasive, and wished for one more explicit.
Sir James Graham did not reply, and the subject then
dropped.
SUPPLY.
_ _ . _

The house then went into ieomMittee of supply.
Tho first vote was 148,4901. for the consular establish-
ments abroad.

Mr. L ItQL IT ART observed that the committee on of
salaries had !commended a •ery _ large re!lucti29,

but only a ass ll ana bad actuallj heal made. He
complained that there was no properly defined qualifi-
cation for the consular service, no examination, and no
trial, though he admitted that many gentlemen employed
in the service possessed very high ability. The case was
different in the French consular service, where the candi-
dates underwent a regular examination, and the organisa-
tion was admirable. One great objection to our system, as
pointed out by the committee, was that it was governed by
no general principles. In moving a reduction in the amount
voted for this service, he hoped to show to the government
that greater efficiency was required. Oa looking through
the list of allowances to the different consuls, he found
great discrepancies; while one had 1,0001., another, at a
more important place, had only 1001. He objected to the
arrangement in India, where there was a consul-general and
vice-consuls, whose salaries were high, and might easily be
reduced by 001. At Constantinople the expense might be
reduced from 1,5001. to 1,0001. ; and at Smyrna, from
8001. to 500/. The bon. gentleman went through the list,
recommending reductions on each consulate ; but the low
tone in which he spoke, and the noise prevailing in the
house, prevented his observations from reaching the gal-
lery. The reductions he proposed amounted to -16,250/.,
but he would only move the reduction of the present esti-
mate by one-fourth that amount.
Viscount PALMERSTON said the hon. gentleman
seemed to think that the consular service was ill organised,
and inferior to that of other countries. Perhaps he (Lord
Palmerston) was better qualified to speak of it—(hear,
bisar)—and he would take upon himself to say, without any
jeseeptiam that no consular service in the world was better
than that of this country. (Hear.) Though
rUTert be organised in a more regular manner and more
maikontably to the notions of the hon. gentleman, anybody
who had filled his Mies would bear testimony to the fact
that, judging of the elks by the abilities of the consuls and
the imam la width they performed their duties, it was
the alma ollamileastalar service existing in any country.
The dodge of the ermelde were very various and very ar-
duous ; not matt' had they to perform all kind of duties
caseated with the commercial interests on the "pot, but
dewy collected valuable information of all kinds, and trans-
mitted it to the Foreign-office, by whom it was handed to
the Board of Trade ; and he ventured to say that in point
of efficiency awl ability they were entitled to the highest
praise. In speaking of the different appointments tho hon.
gentleman had put first and foremost an office held by a
gentleman who had had the misfortune, on another occasion
and in another country to have a little difference
with the honourable member ; of course that consi-
deration could nut have weighed with him for a mo•
meet in wishing to reduce the salary of the consul
at Warsaw. (Laughter.) Anybody who knew the scale
of expense which prevailed in Warsaw, and who compared
the salary of our consul with the salaries of those of other
countries, would be of opinion that that salary was rather
below than above what was required. The hon. gentleman
said that at Paris the consul had 2001. ; why should not the
salary be the same at Warsaw ? With regard to the
consuls in Wallachia, Servia, and Moldavia, they all had
duties more of a political than of a purely commercial
nature ; and the parts of the world where they were sta-
tioned were. those in which we were considerably inte-
rested, and where it was very important to have parties who
could give information both political and commercial.
The hon. gentleman said the consul at Constantinople
ought to have been reduced, because be (Lord Palmerston)
had intended at a future period to abolish the appointment.
He had had that intention at one time, owing to want of
information, under which the hon. gentleman still
but he was now satisfied of the importance of the olaffibeZ6
of the necessity of retaining a eonsul-general there. He
had not only commercial, but also judicial duties under the
treaties with Turkey, and his salary was not more than ma
required. It was said the committee bad recommended
that the consul at Smyrna should bo reduced Rua
6001. to 5001., but he thought 800/. a very small salary,
considering the extent of the duties of that officer.
There was great commerce at Smyrna, and the ex-
pense of living was very high. The consulshipi in Syria
was created after the campaign of 1841; he had then
thought it necessary to have there an officer, not morel
commercial but political, of the rank of consul-gene
He had since thought that the same reason no lonw
existed, and had taken advantage of a vacancy in the
secretaryship to the embassy at Constantinople to transfer
to Adrianople the consul-general at Syria and to abolish the
office, Egypt was in a different position from Syria. It
was governed by a Pasha who was hereditary, and as such
did not stand in the same position as the governors of other
provinces of Turkey. He received revenue in his own trea-
=gad paid tribute to the Sultan. He was, in fact, to a
degree governor-in-chief of the province in which
he ow Puha, and therefore, as consul-general, he pos-
sessed ounneselml ae well as political influence. Moreover,
was new the greet thoroughfare for English travellers
,to a , and therefore the consul-general had forced on hint
' the duties of hospitality, which, of course, infringed his
imume. (Hear, hear.) In Tripoli ha (Lord Palmerston)
lateaded to abolish the consul-goneralstup, and was only
Width* for information as to the period of service of the
consul-general with a view to submit such to the Treasury,
that it might there be considered what compensation he
might
it; entitled to. All things considered he thought an
consul would be quite sufficient for the perform-
' sage of the duties there. With regard to the consuls in
I Ilea* Ameriea, they were diplomatic and political, as well
• semmenisl elßeers. The hon. member inquired why a
I linger astray was paid the consul of Monte Video than the
' etered of Buenos Apes. In the latter place the consul
twits merely a commercial officer, whilst in the former he
MU ngt se a commercial officer, but also charge d'af-
rreetive. la Venezuela, so far from the consul having
hiai to do, he could assure the house that be had ten-
, de red moat important service, not alone in that locality,
bat also to British commerce, by causing the abolition of
the "law of despair," by which law it was attempted to
animate the sums due to British creditors. However, the
wasal-general backed by the instructions of the
' had been successful; and be (Lord
) hoped that in a short period the claims
of Midi merchants would be satisfactorily arranged.
(Hear, hear.) With regard to the consuls of North
America, he had reduced the salaries of two of them—
namely, the consuls at Beaton and New York, to a much