The Express.
London, England, 1849-06-15 00:00:00

1,„ PRIL—TiII WOO it 011, lb=
MUNI— I will Ming it es.
SECLUSION OF STRANGERS.
sr, a. O'CONNELL 'eked whether the sells lard at
wad of the governasest wool Wisp w lie mines Ur
6 eider esmasittee en ;be emehries ef elasalsek and who-
a. he weed be disposed is emend the re* ef the ema-
pony nuivise to soselier the property of seminar( die
mond* whieh provost despablierisa er the boson's pra-
tmerle
Wd 7. RUMRLL did met dirk tires would be say
abtrers te his bringlag is that modes in its regular
.
arms die ovilmig- raper to the sterna queers,
b. thought re entire would be very likely to some under
mossilention of the seassittee, sad they would this be
able in Mon 'Pm
NAVIGATIONBILL.
Mr. LABOUCHERR would call the attention of the
bow for a few aureate to this bill, which had come hams
aces the ether bore. Had the lore' amendments been iv
isapertanoe, he should have felt it his dap to propene
thin they shard be printed, gad a day appointed far tt eir
mesideration. But when he stated how few and trifling
they were, be trusted there would be so objection to dealing
with them at once. Ten only assoduent related to a poitt
siggetly discussed in that house. Is the original bill, it wax
=d not to alter the law relating to the manning of
ships, which /squired thtufwarthe of the
1w
beet tbe British seam Afterwards a proviso
dintroduced in theen. re way of knatioo, allow-
leg say sure of foreigners to ha employed where there
was a certain proportion of British seamen be Ike tonnage.
Gentlemen intimately connected with the shipping interest
tad represented to him that this relax Sleigh entirely
priories, would be objectionable to tle interest ;
and as the prone° was intended solely fee the of the
merchant service, he had withdrawn it, ea the undentand-
log .tat they did not wish for it. However, on farther con-
sideration, the same gentlemen who had applied to him to
strike out the proviso were of opinion that it should remain.
sad they requested a noble lord in the other house to re•
introduce it. Tnis bad been does; arid as this was the only
amendment in the bill, he hoped the hone would have no
W
in @treeing to it. He would therefore move that
the lords' amendment to the Nafgation Bill should be taken
late eowdaeration.
Mr. HENRIES was sorry that the lords had made snob
very slight amendments in the ;he would rather have
erniessed in much larger chances.
Capt. HARRIS thought it would be better to provide for 1,
our snipe beingmanned well by a bona fide enactment than
by a mere promo.
The ameadment was agreed to.
Oa the amendment relating to the number of men to be
employed is vessels being read,
Mr. WAWN said he should divide the house on this
anmsdeset.t.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the words of the amend-
meats wi n exactly the same as those in the bill originally
brought into the house, and which were struck out alter
some diseussien. As the matter was of little importance, the
power being altogether permissive, he hoped the hen. pi-
ties/a would not divide.
Mr. BRIGHT rid he believed this was the clause which
the right hon. gentleman took out it his request in com-
mittee. It was es remove an impression which existed in the
minds it seamen that it win necessary to have four or five
seamen on board for every 100 tons. Re bad bees speaking I
to a captain, who explained to him the great mischief monk
this impression had created. He believed that the clause, if
struck oat, would leave the law as It was. What he desired'
meat° remove the false impend°. that 6 seamen were nem- !
Nary foe every 100 tone. He should prefer not to have tug
dare inserted, but he would not divide the house or make!
say opposition to it.
Mr. GIBSON hoped that the hon. gentleman would
divide the hone, as the amendment we. merely verbuall. net
The gentry was cleared lot a division, but none took
place, sad the amendment was agreed to.
CANADA.
Oa the motive for the conaids ration of the postponed row
lotion in committee of supply respecting the vote for enientd
errors
Mr. GLADSTONI said that the vote which the house
bad just been called on so pas afforded ea appropriate oppose
tarty for the observation' he was abut to maks on alums
ties of vital interest to this rantry and to Canada. Wide re-
spud to the souses lie was shoat to take be begged to exp Lin
last it might appear savage that he had nut added t t the
gems& settee ea the parr, sere distinct notice whisk
might shall-age sa expression of opinion on the part et the
hors, that he did not do so heeler he did not think tbat
be weld have placed is the books of the bone any moths
ileatalang his owa views of the case, or pointing out the
sour whir the government ought, in his °pita' .5, to have
takes, wither haven provoked on this maxima mom
thing of warm and bested discussion, at all mots.
without liana' due something to prejudice that
which he was, above all things, anzious to ST.
eare—s dispseekrate, calm, sad tempente aring,
spar from every consideratios of party baling, apart truss
every consideration allied to peers, fir the uporttnt
eastom involved in theques'ion betas them. (Her, hem)
He did not attend to raise any disclaim spot the conduct of
Lord Elgin, although he might have to refer to statements
made by him, and to lamas °ninnies, is importaat respects
perhaps different from his. But be should esdelously Lord
Elgin, from giviag any judgment as to the esulact of Lord
Elgin, and then sot merely on worst of the wares per-
soul regard which he bore to him and his administration for
his dietiapreietted talent', but because he thought that Lord
Iles bad an excessive share of reloasibility thrown epos
rm. Lord Elgin stood alone and single-handed as the
representative of the crown, and had Peen called on te do
more than aay man in his position, without the distinct aid
sad clear gui fun of the government at home, could properly
arthare. He might be wrong in that view of the case, but
be derived his impression from the Mogul(' of the hon.
the UaderSecretary for the Colonies (Mr.
who stated that it was not for that house to inter-
pees trisecting the esesidention of any legislative measure
that might be presseded with in Canada till those legisla-
tive measures maw le this country fur the assent of the
news. He (Mr. Gladsome) presumed that if it was not the
business of pertinent to interfere, neither was it the duty of
the colonial secret iry to give any iestrectiorregarding them.
Be was therefore led to the isepresthie that eneeding to the
doctrine of the celesta department it sow existed, the
business of the Goversor-Oaneral IMO to judge for himself
with regard to all measeres submitted to him ea his own
responsibility alone, tied that his modest VW in no respect
to be influenced from, hence till the messures were trans-
mitted home for the final disallowance or concurrence
of the crown. If the matter were as he supposed it to be,
them they veld not call the Governor-Geural to amount
for the steps taken by him under such eireastaso s —in a
position in which it was impossible for him adequately
to discharge the duties which he owed to the colonists on the
one hand, and to the crown on the other. (Hear, hen.)
Now, he held it to be the first duty of a governor to inter-
pees and to cheek the action of the colonial advisers, and to
make distinct reference home for his guidance when the
question to be submitted involved not oily local but imperial
Interests. He would pain by the appointments made
to the legislative council, which, however, he believed
exercised a fatal influence on the passing of this
bill—he would pass by all questions connected with the
conduct of the Canadian government in regard to the un-
fortunate and disgrace riots which took place in the capital
of Canada, lie would only remark that the parties to that
riot had been, whatever their nineties& were, the most eM.
nut frieads to the progres of this mean= and if it should
be finally sanctioned, who were the partial to that riot
would in a great degree have margined to it. He
would nee pass over the mode in which the 100,00 W. to be
given under the Rebellion Losses Bill was to be charged
as a purely local question, and would confine himself entirely
to the matter as it affected imperial interests, and any re-
ference he should make to Canadian parties would be rely
incidental or übsidiary to that end. lie admitted at the
ontret that the onus lay on hint to prove a case for the inter-
ference of parliament, ad to show why in this instance
they should depart from what he acknowledged to be in
general a sound maxim. lie called as parliament to inter-
fere, in obedience to a rule laid down be the noble lord
(Lord 3. Russell), when Secretary of Stahl for the colonies,
en a subject which had no reference toany existing difficulty
which could bias his judgment. In • despatch of the noble
lord to Lord fildecham, dated 14th October, 1839, it wee
said, " the internal government ought to be epodes:tad not
°sly for colonial purposes, but by colonial authorities." The
sable lord proceeded to say, " but there are cases of internal
government, in which the honour of the crown or the faith
of pastries% et the safety of the state are se seriously in-
volved that it is not possible for her Majesty's governmeat
to delegate higher authority to the ministry is the coleuy."
It was upon the ground thus supplied by the mobile bed teat
he now called on parliament to direst its special at-
tention to this question. Now in the questions whisk it
was necessary for them to auk and answer ea
this occasion these three were prominent int,
am to the sot of parlament now before them
which was *stifled "An Act to provide for the indemaifi-
attic& of poetise in Lower Canada who suffered just lessee
during the rebellion in the years 1832 and 1838," was it
intended to embrace within the proposal indemnificatim
those who bore rata to their hands against her Major".
forces during those years? (Hear, bear.) Presuming we
to be the case, the second point was, whether this involved
a local or an imperial question • and the third I
point was, 'opposing it to be an imperial quirks,
whether the prvoteed aadessaidmiliss wee ermeisteet, er at
variance with the berm end dry due to the rows.
(Hear.) He would see Mann the fiecoad sad third goes-
dens, mbar for the prase, Wesel he could sot conceive
that say eestroverey could arise wen them In that house.
He would, therefore, appl bimetal to the first voodoo,
and be would ask It
was intended to
embrace in this indeurilleslies those who had bone
arms against her Majesty's Seem tarn the rebellion of 1837
mad 1838? He begged to abeam that he used them words in
their mainary ewe. lie .atthink it required say meta-
.
Phydeal subtlety to denudes Men a rebellion was, es, to de-
cide whether a perms who lei her Lira with a musket is
band was • rebel or a mei emieset. (Rear, beer.) Ho
wasted to know what was the erl ishindon of the act ?
Wm it lateaded to give indemmigesYes te web& f Let him
lave aye or as to the question. (Hre.) Is is gather
evidemes oa the vital question whisk mud determine the
whole are lie had to look to the est 104 awl when
the set (riled es give light to extrusive sedleet. The set
bogies by reekieg an addrete whim hod ham peeememi to
Leal Metcalfe on the 28th gob., 1845, odd& MIMI the es
neeDert ewe had been made out for graining es beam&
seam to those who had seff.red just losses his the nihi
lism el 1837 gad 1838. The brit queries OM errs her
was as to the meaning of the terms "JIM trams." Übe
were to Meeks the aid of the ends al remaesrises
of the house, he believed they mould my that
Ma
lames meant losses that were justly mg deservedly incurred
by WIN Wile suffered them. (Rm. bre, sa4- a laugh.)

Bat he would amaze that the weeds mast Met claims
arising is sweet to attain loam mid Mthis bad be as set
efteW Ist ANIS dams whit hem melds lesetwen to
be eMlied, he would ad mead it whk any aeselthem. H.
believed thth desist the Main 'Mak hems wen la-
wined, *Mk ought to he math pod, .s, for Minsk the
&sleuths of a skunk, whisk the rebels had used hr a
beams, bat whisk was pal& geoperty. He had no objec-
tion to makizomased Mien d the& Ithrt, as he be-
lieved that limes ethane ample width had bees
deelnaged ion Inhadoist=tele soliellisa had Imes restored.
This set Ad sot the payment of all losses, bat
alp •1 I swift use eat of the- payment
miseassary, or
wastes deilleselies el property." A proviso WU istredneed be
has theitheithleusdiethe =ties of the Oeseehsetbrisselves,
sada append to Ns to hen as Impselest basing es the
whole neMenelles of the set. These was a at the
eel tithe tie dans. the venal elleat of was to ex
dude then sompeneatica ell these who bad been amine&
et Imams, sr who had boss transpeeth to lienswils. Ahem
MO plum were thus wittiest hem the opera des of the
ad. Bet the convictions referred to were sot emniedese
is a start of law properly so called, bat sonvistimse I.
emarlamartial. He took for granted that "convicted" la
ea sot of parliament seam lawfully =witted ; sad hone, if
there were any defect is point of form or of strict legality,
there was so envied= at all, and so exception, there-
fore, under the proviso. (Hear, hoar.) Now by whom
authority were the courts-martial erected? What au
was there in this empire and its depeadencies whirr=
erect courts•mamill, or give legal validity to their ass-
tenon. except parliament itself ? Was the authority of par-
liament given beforehand in this cue or afterwaris ? He
had in nth sleuthed the statute books, in relation both to
the temporary and the pennenent government of Canada,
for a suction or ratification of the proceedings of courts.
martial. He bad no doubt that that subject had bees under
the consideration of the noble lord when fisaetery Mgt
for the Colonies, and that he would be able to pre
planation. It was, be believed, the doctrine of the
predominant party in the wawa sad the Legislative
assembly of Canada. that the courts martial to whirl he was
referring were wholly Werth In • petition signed by Mr.'
Lafontaine, and presented to this hoses la 1839, that patio-
man, who was now prime =Winter of the colony, said: *We
deem ourselves also Ivund to destines to your honourable
house the illegal exercise of inertial low." He mated
to follow the principle of the law of tresses in Eng-
land. He did not wish to deal with mons' consciences.
or to say a ward to favour of vexatious or tyrannical
proceedings. He simply wanted to know whether those
who took part in the rebellion were on that ground to be
di.qualiflad from receiving compensation. (Bear, hear.)
They must look • little at evidence extraneous to the act
itself. He might prove his diligence, or at least hi. anxiety
to be diligent, by quoting varied and oonflisting statements
with fastens* to the vital question at issue, made by the
leading men in Canada. He held in his bead a
declaration made by the speaker of the legislative assembly,
who was one of the governor-general's advisers. On tee
14th of May that gentleman said in the legislative council
that it was only the intention of the government to pay the
losses of innocent individuVs. But unfortunately though
that was true in words it did not appear to be so
in meaning. Another federation was that made by
• gentleman named Jones, i member of the Legislative
Amenably, to whose opinion he had the more pleasure in ro
(erring, because he had tne character of being, to • great
event, independent of party connexions. Mr. Jones said
that having been predisposed to support the cow; new los
proviso, he took an opportunity of waiting upon the prime
=Mister to ask him what was the intention of the act.
In the interview which took place' • considirable difference
of opioiun having arisen with restst to the bill, in order that
he might not mistake the views named three or four per-
sons who were known to have bees engaged in acts of rebel-
lion, sad he asked if those individuals wool under the
bill be entitled to indemnity ? The gentleman to whom he
spoke was, he said, too honest and honourable a ma to de-
ceive him ; he teeretore answered candidly that the rrvern•
mast could make no distinctioa, sad that coneequindy those
Penes could not be excluded from indemnity for 'heir losses
if they bad matelot d any. If he passed to Lord Elgin him-
self he found the same thing is effect. In reply to an W-
ein es from the district of Virghila Lord Elgin spoke very
plainly. He said, " I am band to say, in paves to the
Lop majority of the representatives by whom the bill was
pentad, that it ia my firm belief that they did not intend,th in
passing it, to countemasce rebellion or to compensate e
Lases of persons engaged in the heinous crime of rebellion,
but that their purpose was to make compensation for the
cruel and wanton destruction of peopsity. Under this con-
viction I assented to the bill." he first part of that declar-
ation appeared perfectly satisfactory, and if it stool alone it
might be supposed that those who bore arose sgaiast the
Queen's troops would be absolutely disqualified but
when Lord Elgin spoke of making compensation
for the cruel and wanton destruction of property,
he began to fear that the question was to tarn
upon the wantonness of the destruction, and not upon the
o.nduct of the party dainties. (Bear, bear.) He (Mr.
Gladstone) held that the man who had been in arms against
the Queen's forces was absolutely disqualified for receiving
compensation —(chsers)—diequahileit by his own act, and
they had no:h leg to do with the question whether or not the
property was destroyed wantonly and unneeesserily. (Hear,
hear.) He who took arms against the order of society bad
no right to invoke its laws—(cheers)—he who went beyond
the limits of the law, sad sought a remedy to a supposed
'triennia: by violence, had no right to call evidence is a
court of justice to show that the destruction of his property
in oreaseguenes was wanton and unnecessary ; the dioiselifi-
rain was perfect. (Hear, bier.) In the years 1838 and'
1839 sets were peeled for the conipessation of the loyal Whs.
bitants of Canada. Was there any ulifficul.y then in deter.
mining who were rebels and who were not ? Wire not
all the proceedings plain sad patent ? In Ireland
a commission bed sat to Inquire in.° losses incurred
through the rebellion. No difficulty was el Peri I
enced by the cometheioners in fulfilling their duties, It
being in their power to pat parties on their oaths and to em-
panel juries. HadasimilarcoarsebeenpumdinCanda,the
!liquify would not have been attended with the least difiiiulty.
It would seem from Lord Elgia's statement as thowiti the
majority of the members from Upper Canada had voted
against Mr. Wilson's &mondani, het. bow, on the ear
Crary stood the fact ? He sold is hie hand a mints analmis
of the division, and from this it appealed that of the 36
members for Upper Canada who voted ea the occasion, 13
only were In favour of the bill, while 22 voted against it.
Nor had the division proceeded on party principles ; he had
ascertained,
ascertained, on the contrary, that of the 28 members who
constituted the minority there were six or seven gentlemen
who habitually and steadilLeupported the existing savers,
ment on other oectiose. Hoer, hear.)_ So far as to the
sense of the legislature ea subject. Now let him inquire
into the sense of the male/ cm the matter, se expressed by
petitions and addresses. The geveramest ia Canada, as
well as at home, had eertaisly shown no disinclination
to attach weight to them maniketadons, for he found in the
paper before Mni no less than forty winsecutive pages wholly
occupied with addresses and petitions, signed in the whole by
15,000 persons, almost all of them literally. word for word
the same with each other, all of them expressive of fall con-
(Hence in Lord Elgin's samba/elation generally, and all of
them, with one or two excepting, limiting their expressive
of (piston to that genera suedes. without venturing prier
any approval in tonne of the measure is hand—(bear)—fross
which fact he drew the inhales, that thong h many of those
who signed the address' end petitions so presented might
be favourable to the bill, yet hawing it to be a bad question
question on which to test poplar feeling, and that if they
sot forth a distinct approval of the measure, this would pre-
vent them from getting the addresses or petitions signed at
all, they had limited themselves to the proposition of con-
fidence—endonthedly a very just essfidenee—in Lord Eigin's
general character and conduct singe his attains upon the
governor generalship. Thai was a further very remarkable
lact connected with these petition sad addresses, that
warmly any of them had been speed to at public meetinp
hear)—a fact peculiarly remarkable in con-
wiles with people who bed always laid such
sues, upon enure publicity of proceeding.
eLL Of
the petition and addresses so elaborately repro-
duced in them 40 pages, he had, urea a careful en-
miastion, only head emu which at all came under the dr
militias of emesethse hes pal a menhir, and of these
*see were misty petitions aped to at parish mestisp—
enlist, fa strict leek then was bat no, that hest Bathurst
• et, which answered to our ualenhaihs el a public
=lgelled by the onstitated umbeellies so elide the
ithe phis upossizat palspalsgrawdem (Hear,
Mesa Tlisi_rest of the pi MA miasma were got up
by kWh.* mho MI beam adiemhy shod to dean
um la wpm) as the anddatty. (Haar) So dub he the
Ciold abed= tees 47. Its deeply regretted le met
trespeidams see Weenies the other itay had not met
with the some *the esrepthrEett Lord Elgin. (Hear.)
Tame Wile fifty pages ei and *Weems in favour
of =exactly : why were_ the net forty
ialikeisserme asena-liasSed tares
nguired,
the panne mid Wanes 'pint the bill ? There null
be se teed of desk that, at all events is Upper Canada, the
ameament of the emereenity was decidedly adverse to the
wiseems (flew, hesr.) It wee veged as a thirCancanc-
ting, dal be* in Upper Candle mil in Lower da
bees bid bees esterior whisk fettered the dis-
unities at that mmatbly. Let him into this point.
It mead sweaty be alleged Bat the first mend-
W/6
mea
in this matter, the eathetheilles in Fe=
of a rsksies of ispley into
loam: in Upper Ceases, then was my ambiguity;
then was, certainly, as Mstion=fsity is the terms of the
commimion y try Lord Metoelfs fa
November of Mr, " to lapin into loresseendsei
Ls: lleteitagtre &pen in army pests ef the pro-
du the smateirell nos." This essmis.
sion was the est that distieguished the sale weer of
Lord Metcalfe, whose darters ems minsied to it almost
in the rosy of bis -bees of death. (Hear,
arhzre.l
Mr. Dab the tp the amestin sesseils, ad
• letter le the inatreseths them, that, is
dithapthhinig, by a obethisi list, between rebel, and loyal
e 51611001,11117 were an to be guided as against persons
aimed Is heing M the former goes by any other evident's
(has egg lteaMitl by the nestled sonsece of courts of
law, as thelnethes materially relied ups by the advocates
of the auesses. lb. Ca*y, a gemlesna of the 'tubes% I
beseme, MEV mi. Duly at the Nom who bap-
ongsfeedemn les Is %realer Jessesre on prt-
WSW is semintheatisa with I
hha elk. ostgeet—had pelesed out te
hile alba inviieralk& The seamides of Lod Inds,
Aar thelemthei the eniththillthll he make a fall and C3S- '
dodge Isisft be! ell He awe whisk they were dinned
eiefriti dished Oath thither, to make sash remarks
thpes delm and up= each ease as they might eleam
seesseszy. How different from this the was of she Stem d
AUMO' of February ? Here the ethlnklithaelle WIN MK
you have to do istoginis a general ohm* et Ma-
hon losses, the particulars of which will form the eabiect of '
more minute consideration hereafter for the prorate. nt
and remember that your commission does not authorise you

he sail far pews, ae to grem-exambi ee to'
peened with soy criminatoiy fa 4isievir
wy be Mused modest preens =ouel..dime oyMe
=ID All yea ban to do weed ebb" WI
tffiffilheis rest to the executive (Hear, bear.)
lab hareocousr=peorellog fes AR
Of them who were w Mimi to owe
MglWit the /obeli. Mr. la lowa
ablitheogli dimly wend sysZtithelir= immellson
Item oftolota=lbsee mime whiffing be ftimild ele
Wok is fro pewee who had eau gent he the
midis% didosillymemeesol he lied, =A hi offilingoloe
that he hell so soak beleatim, wed weld weer omen to
it. (Raw, beim) ft eme tttaeel tort sake bielymeee
beviajlea chests la Unlit Casale to the lasi, ft waste
be mod twills le deal Isis 'saintly with the
minis in Lawn Oreeda. Est the Mm was tort
is Upper Condo ft had weer boss essitsmgknoi
to imismnify rebels, god soli hod net been
these. (Harr, laser.) The mgy fa Upper Oman
when has bed logo mob bed bas loyal peolilloos
whose prepeetyftnil begs desiguyed by the sad%
%:asehe losiemisim d Modem awl by lb.
Of poems seek& er to silos the peft
of bee e*, by bait fte twine
heads vellealeg dimoyee be
by moms whims
bosses or other gersperhg bed bees Wired se gegoweil
her Majesty's hoses se NW loyal pewee. tier the tale
nation of millimy epsontims against the rebels. (Hem)
Again, Dr. Thusembek was said, a fugitive tam
justice, had disbud mi. and got it. Nov it sp-1
sp, and from the espienetion of Mr. Ingersoll, that
Dr. Duncombe had cor*sly. been a rebel and • fugi-
tive from justice, avid that lOW. bad bees claimed in con-
sexion with Dr. Dnosembe, but the claim was not made by
Dr. Doncombe, but, en the contrary, wee the sum which had
bees offered for his apprehension. (" Hear, bear;' and
laughter.) Mr. Hausman was mother of the Parties
whoa Mr. Wachs had been made to represent as a con*
vieted Inter who had received oompeniation, whereas, Mr.
Haggerman bad never been tried, and, consequently, sever
been convicted. Mr. Tooke was the fifth person who was
alleged to have, as • convicted traitor, remind com-
pensation. Mr. Ingersoll showed that Mr. Tooke had
not received one farthing, and had saver claimed one
farthing. (Hear, hear.) Having thus mat the leading
objections which 6d hue advanced regained the interven-
tion of the imperial legislature is vindication of the honour
of the crows, 'he would new state what he desired to have
done. What he cestamplated was this: that to every ease,
before the public mosey was paid over to any persos in
respect of rebellion lows, there should be reasonable bond fide
evidence that such person had taken no pen in the rebellion.
And when he required that rebels should not be ad-
mitted to compensatioo' he did not mean merely convicted
rebels, but, further, all penes, who were known to have
taken port in the rebellion. Another assurance he would
require from the noble lord was that the order in council
ratifying this act should be suspended until declaration was
made b the Canadian legislature that in the next sea.
sion theymet should be areenied so as to exclude from any
claim to eompensatien persons who had taken any part in
the rebellioo. That was what he asked the noble lord.
elhad endeavoured to state the views he enter-
tained on this deep and vital question with clearness and ex-
plicitly. If he had conceived a wrong impresrion of the
noble lord's intentions nothing would give him greater
pleasure than to be arrested. To that noble lord he ap-
pealed, and he could only empress his earnest hope that all
parties would act in concert upon this question, as nothing
would be more fatal to the interests of the empire than that
disunion should prevail at so important a crisis.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he had derived much
consolation from the earlier portion of the right hon. gentle-
man's spomh, when he declared that he hoped the united
voice of all Canadian that bowie would be joined in settling
the present difficulties, and therefore, entertaining
that hope, he should not feel himself called upon to make
any prorsiti n which could bring on a division. He must
say that he was in hopes the right hon. gentleman's speech
would les in accordance with that declaration, but as the
right hon. gentleman went on in his remarks,
he found he was doomed to experience a great dis-
appointment, and be Low was &Aged to say that if any
thing could aggravate and embitter the hostile feelings be-
tween the two parties in Canada, and if any we course
more than another was calculated to revive the animosity
and rancour which were beginning to subside, that course
was the one which the right hon. gentleman had taken In
giving expression to his sentiments. (Loud cheers). The
right hon. gentleman had stated most ably the case
of one party. He had narrated every particular calou.
lated to prove favourable to the party in opposi-
tion in the Canadian legislature. Hs had eves sup-
plied that party with arguments that they bad not
dreamt of, and he had filled up some of the defects in their
we against the ministers of the Governor-General of Cana
de, showing rem ingenuity in his strictures and ressocinp
on the conduct of Lord Den, and is blaming the course
owned by that nobleman. At the nme time he (Lord J.
Russell) must say that be concurred in some of the remarks
.ef the right hon. gentleman, and =loot be allowed to state
that in • despatch widressel to one of the colonial
governors, which he wrote ten years ago, he had im-
pressed upon the person to whom he wrote that
there were cases which could not be left to the
discretion of the local parties, but which being
cases wherein the honour of the crown wee conoeneed re-
quired to be managed and dealt with very cautiously, tem-
perately, and firmly, as much in the colonies is by the home
authorities,_in order to prevent collisions sad fatal °ones-
vision. He folly admitted that such cases might present
themselves; but when the right hon. gentleman went on
to my that he believed Lord Elgin had received instrostione
from the home government by which he was debarred from
asking advice of the crown or its ministers in cases marling
the national honour, ha (Lord J. Russell) must make bold
to roll the right hoe, gentleman that he wee altogether us-
warranted is the &reception which he had ventured upon
staking—(hear, hon)—for neither the Earl of Elgin nor
any other governor of her Majesty's foreign pusessiew had
received other than those instructions, which left him to be
guided by his own disnetion, and thereupon be most rely in
judging whether particular cases were of load importantly or
whether they were cases affecting the honour of the crow
wherein he could with propriety ask for the directing of the
monarch. If the noble lord even had believed that
to be an act of local importance, which, in point of fact, was
in reality one wherein the honour and dignity of the crown
and the national interests were concerned, he would, under
the instructions of which he was possessed, have been fully
justified in taking the course which he did. But if the go-
vernment believed, as they did believe, that Lord Elgin Ind
rightly construed his instructions, and had beet consulted the
interest. of Canada, and the honour, the dignity and the is-
tants otthe crown and of the people of E oglandL(hear)_—if,
a, the government believed, the conduct of Lord Elgin
was guided by a complete knowledge of the feelings of the
Caladium, and by a true appreciation of what was becom-
ing to the honour of the country wad of the sovereign, then
he would say that himself and his collet es would be the
basset of men if they should desert Lord Elgin in the present
onkel state of affairs, or if they hesitated tor one moment
to share with him whatever amount of responsibility
the House of Commons might think tit to east epee them.
It was not, the/store, as the right hon. penman had ima.
(bad, in pursuance of such instructions, which would have
pivot Lord Elm in a situation neither proper nor buena-
fog, that the Governor-Often' of Canada had acted in re-
pel to the lodemnity Act. After the rebellion of 1837-8 a
roll was istrodseed into the Legislative Assembly of Upper
Cased& Ise giving compensation to those who had suffered
lessee daring the rebellion. This act was amended in the
wet ouloo, and Lord Sydenham gave hi unction
to both these acts of compensation. The per-
ms thus indemnified was not, as the right hon.
gentleman supposed, those who were know* specially
to have taken part in the rebellion ; their qualifications and
claims to indemnity rested on their being residents in Upper
Canada. When these sets were passed, sad the fact of hav-
ing voted sums of money for the lone' incurred in the re-
bellion in Upper Canada became known, it seat wee ques-
tion whether the same CMS* should not be taken with re-
spect
ryto Lower Canada. and he (Lord J. Russell) must
that the only objection which he made
whim the Upper Canada Rebellios Indemnity Bills came
mbar his soft was, that the claims should sot be made
=eel of the funds of the United Kingdom. But the
mutually atually been paid the next consideration
wee the ishowity to be paid to the sufferers in Loser
panda, A avouch, dated May 8, 1844, of the noble lord
(ftesiy) them at the head of the Colonial-office, contained
Robe lutemelleas as to the mode of compensating the rebel-
lion aim Lower Canada by debentures, so that it ap-
pealed EMI the propriety tad the best mode of
these claims were firet regretted by Lord
gle end Instructions on this head were trans-
by him to Lord Metcalfe. Commissioners
INN appointed to examine into the claims that eight be
mode in Lower Canada, and the right hon. gentleman bad
quoted one of the papers of instruction to the commitioners
of inquiry, deed 12th of Dee, 1846, wherein they were
enjoined to classify the claims, and " to distinguish the cases
of those who had joined the rebellion and had been active
against the crews, from those who had not so acted--stating
the circumstances of esch esse, and the amount of the
claim." The 001111111h1g0111115 inquired what powers they
passed to establish such a slassiikation es was indicated
is the despatch, and they were told in another deapateh of
December, 1848, that "it was not Wended by Lord Met-
calfe that then should be any other distinction roads
amount the claimants than such as was founded ea a sen-
tence of the courts of law against any of the rebels." New,
the right hon. gentleman seemed to think that then had
been a change in the instructions to Lord itinerate, and that
the government had departed from his original views.
Mr. GLADSTONE had not so expressed himself.
Lord J. RUSSELL bed so oadenteed the right hon.
gentleman. But he did net see why the access, of Lord
Metcalfe should be held up makes loyal servant of the grows.
Why should Lord Cathcart be sewed of Wag Ism disposed
to maintain the honour and dignity of the mews don his
? Bat it appeared to his eiiiillossell) that
trstitea rt's isstructions were to these wbe
had noteriesely been rebels from those hid set so
eoaducted themselves, in drawing up a lit et
the slalom% for indemnity. Bat this distinctioa ft
was bead geoid wan practical carried ion effect wittiest.
is point of feet, eabjectieg the whole of those who put for-
weed claims to a new trial. Now it was this *atlas which
bad governed the whale proesedings In
the case. What be
wanted to point sot to
hew was, got whether Mr. Hisao
was right or wrong in his insertions, but the extreme dill-
oulty of conying out the distinction it on by the right
hoc. petlemen. It was stated openly in the House of As-
'empty of Canada that hundreds of those Minty
concerned In the rebellion had received
lion is Upper Canada. end tbo
Hagenass, who had soled as seimitoof l~Ma
the rebels in Upper Comeleobed bow taawrwea
Hinckes as one Of tliess who bed less Now,
Mr. Hitches war not spumes le maks —nooestion

the good amenthly Was he had ems goad meads to
oad thins gonads were the unhand sad whoa-
bike thegaahent Upper Gook that the het wee
she had Oiled 11,, if Oh was the we with =
Vire Cellok hew wla te make km
in the ems mitnally ankh gensikeatish? Hare werem
'Wiese
&kaki einnykstihn d their
=a Thealshily e=ite truth teethe assertioa that they had
boa Valk awl theya damask& preele. Now, would thei~
be& ff ehlkik reeeed le being these wows to trial
leriekesellans whisk lash plate In 1837 ? (Hear.)
Boum that was rally the hews edit. (Hier heir.) Let
trot the right he.. gentlemen say that he Weald ask for
orwasfacie proof that these sea wore net rebels : wee
it to be bins that man la 1819, tithe dealandtbamease to
Ilan boa loyal—who said piebege that kW bet pt eat of
the way hater el the rebellion sal the deinialft el disk
FeLand who thus did not hem hatimidelisa to
lsloolvessas partas it linriLS•ll that should
aew to goy—w into a regular Met AO they wen
bud neen In 1837, end that no set of tholeeteedd le agaseresd
rho so apparel of the rebellion ? (Hort
_lrett.))_ Benue
rot was whet the right hon. gentlemansated. He did not
use give the mos the thence which a perms asansed of high
t 0.... bad ; became a person who was plumed at the bar for
high tresses merely said he was not guilty and he was not
boundte say one word more. And if the jittlge asked him to
prove when he wee, and told him that he must bring for-
went prima foes. proof that he was not engaged in the in-
surrection in quetioa, the man would my with indignation,
and the whole tannin would echo that indignatioe, w No, I
am not bound to peeve that I am not guilty ; but it is for
you who have arraigned 1113 of high treason to give
evidence to prove that charge, end till that is done I am an
innocent man. (Huy, hear.)__ That wield be the case
with regard toe Ilan who in lksu or 1841 WU to receive
cemposatioa for a reknit* which took plus in 1837 and
1838. Desist thehouseonly imagine anthem, claimants for re-
bellies besesbrought to that tort eleven or twelve yeses after,
when it might hinny passible that their nearest relations,
those friends with whom they were then consorting, and who
could prove their innocence, were dead and gorse, or
had removed to some ether country, sad there Weis ao
means left of giving the evidence which the right hon. gen-
tleman required as the only proof of their title to commie-
tioo. (Hear.) So much then with regard to the acts which
were pond with teepee* to Upper Canada, end the cone-
sponduce that took place in 1846. After that time there
appeared to have been a report from the eounakdours, in
whichPthey stated the sonorous claims that then were ea
this object ; but they added that those claims might be *-
dead, and that they thought the sum of 100,0001. would
compensate all the real losses which had taken place. It
appeared to have been, as far as he (Lord John
Rowell) could tell, the intention of the government of
that day to have proceeded upon those recommendations,
end it did not appear that anything else was to be the teat
with regard to loyalty then that statement of Mr. Dely'e,
the secretary of the Executive Council. viz., that those were
to be mouldered as rebels, or as hosing aided and abetted the
rebellion, who bad been found guilty by coots of law. I
Alter that, the ministry which had then the gone. al roam
mint of affairs became weaker. They made an attempt to
form an association or coalition with the heads of the Preset
Canadians. That negotiation did not result in any eoliths
et the time, and in the end Lord Elgin consented to a dime-
ludo, with a view to strengthen his government. That
course did not succeed, and a very great majority was rie•
turned adverse to the then administration. On the meeting
of the new amiably, when it was found that there was a
great mejoritv 'gaunt the ministry, they resigned, and,
according to the doctrines of responsible government, the
present ministry succeeded them in their office. Now it
was obvious that that was a question which would be premed
upon that ministry. The former ministry, at the sugges-
tion of the Secretary of State, had proposed that there
eh old be en indemnity for looses in Lower Canada es well
es for losses in Upper Canada. In making a clarification of
the claims under that commission of inquiry, the secretary
of the government had declared that the only line to be
taken was to separate those who had been found guilty in
courts of law from those who had not. Accordingly, that
was the course taken by the exiting ministry in Canada,
lied a measure was prepared with that view. The right
hon. gentleman stated—making a meet ingenious argument
certainly on every allegation ;that went on behalf of that
bill—that those who had been found guilty by courts mar-
tial could not be said to have been legally convicted. But
he (Lord J. Baueell) believed, as far as his recollection
served, that Sir J. Cockburn bad pronounced martial law in
Canada, end whoa martial law was pronounced coons mar-
-1.1 were formed under the common law, and did not require
the previous authority of the crown. (Hear, bear.) 'There-
fore, their proceedings and sentences would be lawful
under the authority of Sir J. Cockburn. (Hear, hear.)
Now, if that were the ease then, there would not
be that difficulty arise to which the right honourable
gentleman had referred. He meet observe, however, that
with a view to obviate objections, the existing ministry of
Canada did make more restrictions and limitations with
regard to indemnity for Lower Canada lames then had been
made with regard to loon in Upper Canada. Even it cer-
eal., Wing to the infirmity of all legislation, as the right
tin. gentleman had stated, had given compensation to rebels
in Upper Canada, still, if not in the spirit, it was, at all
events, according to the letter of the Get, and was therefore
lawful. But the preamble of this ad said,
It is aseemary end Just that emelleeleee of sea yeses, ast yet
othase, AO lona the esteem armee miaow Why molarlegM
uneenthselle, awl Oa its masa se he eddy es Osy may lave
shwa ken shekel we wee, 'Weimer moon Monseska of Y.
loonlop. INalldlop, prepay, end- Wish off the eel inheateate,
sea from theedwee, teeing, we eshrei 78 tegrarsof tkir property earl
Woof iheati lie put see oedema, te asne of di..
eons "Me %whose oinked ot trams, slimed to Dave been
committed in Oat yen edits preview formerly called Lower Canada,
rime the lit dep it itearater, 1037, or who having been charged
with blgh MOM reke Whence of oessoeAle nature, and
baring lisea Y inagsky el Ye sheriff in the also' of Montreal eats-
vetted themeime In me we, end pleasure of her Majesty, and were
thereupon t ....i. ase hre leelesty's Wand of Bermuda, shall be
entitled to any feeea ellW it lones sustained during or after the said
rebellion, or In oiongemo thereof.
Now, with regard to the Bret part of that preamble,
the right boo, gentleman said that there might have
been a destruction of property for which commotion
would be just, and yet that compensation might be
shut out. But that was ouly showing that compen-
sation had been more restricted and more coedited
within limits, so that it would perhaps exclude some
claim that might be perfectly just. With regard to the second
part of the preamble, end the allegation that persons
who had been sent to Bermuda could claim any indemnity
on account of loss of property, and haviog been taken from
their families, it was evident that all sued claims must be
refused at wee under the act of parliament. (Hoar,
hear.) The right hen. gentleman bad stated with
regard to one amendment which he favoured—that
of Mr. Wilson—that there was a close division, 28 to
44, and that the maj ',ray of the Upper Canadians
were in favour of ths amendment. But, without disputing
the accuracy of the right hon. gentleman's statement, he
would add that after that amendment had been rejected, the
whole resolution was put, when then was a much larger
majority in favour of the Ms Aution, although the amend
ment had been negatived- And when the bill came to a third
reading, instead of those who had voted for the amendment
in committee saying " es you have not adopted those amend-
wilts, the bill is so utterly objectionable, and gives such
countenance to rebels, that we must vote against it,"
there was a very gnat majority, 48 to 18, in favour of the
bill as a whole. And with regard to the component parts of
that divisibly there was a majority of representatives of
English doessat who voted in favour of the bill.
litz:m2th bers. gsatleman had pronounced a just
pLog- Metall*. Let them do all honour to
the deed= misery of Lord Metcalfe deserved it; but
let them het do %justice to the living. (cheers.) He
would be Mend to my that when my Lord Elgin pronounced
them @salsama his lordship did not mesa, as the right hon.
madams eeseted to suppose, to reserve to himself some
Reuss of aselea. (Hear, hear.) Lord Elgin meant to act
is re spirit of that declaration—he meant to do all in his
pester te any into effect the view that it was not to cont-
peerahs the losses of persons guilty of the heinous crime of
Menem that that bill had been pasted—and, for his own
part, spelideg la the acme of the government, he had por-
ing esaidease fa the integrity and jukes of Lord Elsie,
mail he believed that those words which his lordship had
poseeeeeed he woad may into offset. (Hear, hear Of
semi.., with raged to the mode of carrying out that act,
mash wed& depend epee the Wanted/ as to be given, and
epos the assaledoeers to be named. It was Lord Elgin's
.we wish, he believed, that before any formal act was taken
fa this sentry, the lastruerioss whiO he proposed to give
the esmaniahmess should reach Englaad. Her Majesty's
Shad not yet 'revived the act in such a shape that
Qua in coanail could be advised to give any decision ea
it, either te tarry it iato operation or otherwise. Bet he
told the right be., gentleman that it was the belief of him-
self and litiellseavao—which they meant immediately to
convey to Lod 110 w—that It would be their duty to :eave
that set to lapaparetion (hear, hear)—that they should do so
in the meldaso that those instructions would be framed in
the spirted the declarations which he himself had made, and
that they did not doubt when these instructions should
arrive bet they would bit found to be suck as to
enable then to advise the Queen to give her entire
approbation to Lord Elgin's conduct. (Hear, beer.) When
he told the eight hon. gentleman this, therefore, he did not
is any way Oirnies the course which her Majesty's govern-
ment intended to pursue. (Hear, hoer.) According to all
probability they should be in porn ission before a very long
time of the set in its formal , and of the instructions
which might beengiv upon it. he right hon. gentleman
stated that, the feelings of the Teeple of Canada were not
represented by the votes la the legislative assembly.
Mr. GLADSTONE—I did not my one word about it.
Lord J. RUSSELL continued—Surely the right hon.
gentleman argued for some time that they were not to judge
of public opinion in Canada from the votes in the Assembly
—Orem, hear)—that, in fact, there wee a strong opinion on
the other side which was the prevailing opinion in Canada.
He (Lord J. Russell) could not, as things at
present stood, advise the crown to proceed to the
disallowance of that act. (Hear, hear.) He felt, and he felt
very deeply, the excitement which had been caused by it.
The opponents of that measure bad founded their oppo-
sitioc, no doubt, upon feelings and arguments which ap-
rued to them to be valid ; but he believed that they
had carried that opposition to a point which bad raised
an excitement in Canada which they themselves deeply
regretted ; for he observed that .11 the Lest of them spike
in terms of indignation of the outrages which had been
committed and the insults offered to the Governor-General.
He believed now, that, if such was the course with the oppe-
eition party in Canada, if they did not attempt to transfer le
this house the differentiawhich bad alreadytaken place is
Canada ; that Coeds, this question ever, was destined to
see her property gradually recovered, and, once recovered,
tvotintudlY eagmeeted. He believed that her situ-
ation was sash that the inhabitants of Canals
need not envy say odor country the %stingier
that they might %ley; he believed that, under the British
sceptre, they might *cry as mesh freedom, and as much

h 4 alm road be the let of any pea* en the
fartilo globe. He Rust have the right sea. gear.
maa to puns the awn whisk he thought St ; be should
be parry, indeed, if be *null think it nesemay, Dy
• mere lima motionaz led who these were in this
bona who this was • ore ia lank,
if they abidtehdit eeirembie governmest. theuceere
bound to snow the est of the Camelia kg
to come into operatics, sad ales who would fitter and re-
strain the liberty of the manse by disallowing asast, to
wilco, as be thought, sleben. tan be mask sid-
ed= mode upon it. there was se vela smil semi on.
With them sentimenta, Sherrie% belialag sod koseerhat
• straight and direst somas Tasman likely to puffy Canada
than any tampering with ibis dilistaky, be bad declared at
ma the course Revelator* Meat to pursue, ad left it to
the house to form their went decides. (Hear, Item)
Mr. GLADSTONE, fa expleinedics, said that the noble
lord bad misunderstood bin. The informatkat which he
bad reosived was information open to all the world. Mr.
Meeks had sent him a notes giving his mina of the can,
asisorrectiag, in some particulars, the statement he (Mr.
Giristone) had made. He said that Malcolm and Hall,
two of the five piteous named, might sot have been tend,
bat they were outlawed. They had left the province, and
were outlawed, and pardoned by Lord Sydenham in 1841.
Hall also wu outlawed, and pardoned by an application to
; Lord Sydenham. He said he never mentioned the name of
Cooke. He asserted that Cooke was sentenced to be hanged
for high treason, and pardoned. limestone, he thought,
was convicted, but he defended an action in the civil court,
on the ground that the. goods for which the action had been
brought bad been received by him as Commirmy-General.
Mr. BERRIES thought that the bonoura'bie ISM
her for the University of Oxford and the noble lord
opposite had brought the question to a point in which
the house might form mine judgment as to the course they
were to puree under all the circumstances of the core.
On looking at the provisions of the bill, it segued to him to
follow of necessity that all persons who could not be brought
within the category of either persons convicted it of persona
—to-the number of seven or eight—who submitted themselves
and were transported, that all other mesas whether rebels
or not, who could prove that they had sustained lose by rebel-
lion would become of necessity and by virtue of the act itself
entitled to compensation. He put it to the Attorney-General
whether the act could be caniedineo effect without qualifica-
tion, without interposition, which be believed could
only be effected by a new act of the legislates'
of Canada, for be doubted if the authority
of the crown could interfere to modify the act. Refuse It
they might; but they could not so modify the provisions as
to alter the destination of the indemnity The noble lord
had relied much upon it—that they were to expect farther
communications from Lord Elgin—that they were to receive
some account of the instructions which he intended to give to
the commissioners who were to carry this act into effect.
Under the act he had no such instructions to Rive ; he could
not lot any instructions modify the application of this
act. The important question, then, which the house
was called on to decide was, whether they would per-
mit, under an act apparently mistakenly conceived, a measure
to be carried into effect which, if strictly administered ac-
cording to the provisions of the sot, would strike at the very
foundation of civilised society—whether persons who had
been engaged in rebellion should, notwithstanding their par-
ticipation, at the end of • certain period receive indeinnifrat.-1
tine at the hands of those wko bad been suppressing
tee rebellion. (Hear, hear.) lie was at a lose to know
how ministers could escape from a dilemma in this case.
They relied on being able to modify the bill so as to give
satisfaction to the people of Canada. If they could, die.
content would soon be allayed ; but he had it on high
legal authority that the bill could not be altered
so as to meet the present view of the government. The bill
t wan quite different from any former bill that had been
I framed for the purposes of indemnity either in Upper or
Lower Canada, inasmuch es that all former bills expressly
' excluded rebels. There was no such exclusion in the preens,
measure, and besides there were obnoxious provisions, which
t he feared the government would find it impossible to avoid.
t The only way to do it would, in his opinion, be to re commit
, it to the Canadian legislature. He contested that being tho-
u roughly convinced on this point, he should make emotion for
t referring the matter back to the Canadian legislature,
t unless the noble lord gave a distinct assurance that he
• would carry into effect that which he now stated to be the
conviction of himself and Lie colleaeues,—that was to say,
that he would take care to avoid making rebels the recipients
I of the indemnity fund. (Hear.) It the noble lord took care
• to avoid that great evil all further opposition would vanish.
Above all, nothing would be dose to renew the excitement.
• He had intended to propos a resolution, in order to show how
I much his opinions were in conformity with those of her Ma-
jeaty's government. (Laughter, and cries of " Move.") The
t resolution was this ;—" That an humble address be presented
to her Maje sty, praying that she would be pleased to with-
I hold her royal assent to an act of the Canadian Assembly,
r entitled 'An Act to provide for the lademnification to Per-
t sons in Lower Canada whose property was destroyed during
I the rebellion in 1837 and 1838,' without and until
• her Majesty should have received satisfactory assurances
t that no person who had engaged in ai ling or abAting in that
I unnatural rebellion should be permitted to participate in the
I indemnity so proposed." It appeared that upwards of 800
0 panes were imprisoned for enraging in thin rebellion, and
that they were all known and could be identified. stber
more than 400 were applicants under the commission.
• (Hear.) Yet, according to the preamble of the act, which
referred to all persons proving losses sustained by the rebel-
' lion, those peening stood upon the same footing as ell other
persons. Of the 400 claimants, some 70 or 80 had bees con-
. aided by courts-martial ; but the very exception which was
made after the bill was introduced of convicted persons—
that being the first material alteration in it—oompletely a eta-
' bibbed the right of those who were not convicted
and not excepted to come io and claim compensation. (Hear.)
Colette, there'', me, the noble lard would say that he intended
to modify the bill as be (Mr. Herrin) suggested, or give some
security that he would Garry into effect his own intention,
he must move the resolutioa which he had just read, be-
lieving that the only mode to attain his object was by with-
holding the comsat of the Crown until the Canadian As•
neatly could itself remedy the difficulty which had arisen.
Mr. B. COCHRANE revered to say that the history of
the Canadian council and government since 1838 made ,the
loyal inhabitants of Canada feel that the result of what wu
called responsible government in Canada was the bring-
ing forward of men who had acted against the
loyal party and the imperial government of this
country. Some of the men who held high offices
under the Crown had been mowed of high treason
and were in consequence obliged to leave the countey, and
amongst Monsieur them r. Baldwin, who had been Attorne•Gene-
ral, Lefontaiee. (" Heir," from Mry. Roe-
buck.) The hon. and learned gentleman cheered, but did
he remember the names of all thous gentlemen who were
brought into high office to the prejudice of the loyal men,
and who had been enema, and some of them cenvected, of
high treason, He believed a relative of the hon. and learned
gentleman was the person who received a reward of 6001. from
the government for arresting M. Oirouard, and when asked
the question by Sir A. M' Nab, he replied, " I did receive
6001 for mg him, but I have reason to change my opi-
nion of him now." (A laugh.) The son of M. Pepineau
got a place of 1,000(. a year, and another go-
vestment appointment was conferred upon another of the
same class, bat when the appointment arrived it was
found that be had been hung. (Loud laughter.) And yet
these were the men whose can the hon. and learned gen-
tleman pleaded at the bar of that house.
Mr. ROEBUCK said he had supposed that the discussion
of this question would have been confined to our colonial
administration. lie had supposed that they were about to
discuss it calmly, considerately, and he might say, in that
honourable style which usually distinguished gentlemen in
that house. (" Hear, hear," from hie. B. Cochrane.) He
could not for • moment suppose that the hon. gentleman did
not classify himself amongst that body. What bad
he to do with what his relation in Canada had dons ?
Had he done aught to any art in that house or
the country that could justify him in taxing him with
that which was either infamous or dishonourable? (Hear,
hoar.) The hon. gentleman said that be same to the
bar of that boom to defend the rebels. That was not a true
statement. He came there upon • petition to the House of
Commons, signed by his own name as the authorised agent
of the House of Assembly in Lower Canada, to appear at the
bar and argue in the character of agent against a
particular on the table of the house that
went to destroy the constitution of that assembly of
which those whom he represented formed a part.
He represented the House of Auembly ; and it was not true
to say that the House of Assembly ()flower Canada were at
all as at any time rebels. (Hear,hear.) Suppose there had
been some rebels in that home had not the -House of Com-
mons been called on, within a few days past, to issue • writ
in the plioe of • person who was a convicted rebel ; end did
that affect the character of the House of Commas ?
(Rut, hear.) In the fate of this assembly—in words
the strongest the house would permit him to use,
and with a much deeper feeling at the bottom of the
sion—he denied the l
truth of the assertiol that he ha=
the advocate of rebels. (Hear, hear.) f this had been ut
tered elsewhere, or by any man not clothed with the rota-
tion of the house—(" Hear, hear," and " oh, oh" from the
protectionist benches)—yes, they could cry " oh, oh" when he
defended himself from the attack, to which they bad listened
with the greatest complacency. (Hear, hear.) TM bon.
gentleman ought to have looked rer the; evident)e to support
his charge. It was a criminal proceeding to make a charge
spinet any nisn's honest character without sufficient inquiry
into the evidence, and he charged the hon. gentleman with
not haying Dade that sufficient inquiry. He asked
the House of Commons, as gentlemen, was this con-
sonant with honourable feeling ? (lieu heir, hear.)
He would now ask the house and the' country, if,
no accusation having been made against • man mos 1837,
they were justified in now bringing the accusation that he
was guilty of high treason ? Hs said they were
not. That man was guiltless natal he was am-
viand ; and he had not been convicted. It WWI •
matter of policy at first, whether the government would
give any compensation at all ; but, having determined to
give it, it was not by possibility within the mesas of the pa:-
fitment or the government to draw any ether line than they
had done. But the right hon. gentleman proposed to make
it nutter of inquiry by commissions, whether certain per-
sons wen rebels. Was it justice to give to three comsaissionen
the right to say, without a solemn trial, that a man was
guilty of high treason ? They must resolve either is
vat no compensation at all, or they must adopt the Hoe
drawn by the Canadian parliament. He would go • step
further, and maintain that it was not only impossible to
draw any other line, but that if it were possible it would be
highly dangerous and impolitic on this occasion to run
counter to the 'Fishes of the people of Canada, as expressed
by the constituted authority. (Hear.) He bogged of the
house to pardon the somewhat excited state in which he
commenced his address. (Hear.) Bat he hoped that, for
the honour of this country, antes character as • geneses
and chivalrous nation, they l hear no mote ot these
imputations. (Cheers.)

Mr. B. COCHRANE said he did not mean to impute
anything against the character of the hon. and teamed gen-
tlemen. All that he maintained wee, that easoopt thou'
when be represeated were peewee who had been found in
ono against the Queen's foram
Mr. C. BRUCE said that as the tranquillity of Canada
depended probably on the success or otherwise of this'
motion, it was far too important • matter to be made the'
Slijeet of mere party straggle in that Muse. The
essobrit of the noble lord at the heed of the government was
meet May to ware the peace of Canada. The governor
bad dbaharged his duty to the crown and the
esffeeNt bad adopted a course most creditable
to Mmaelf, and ens which tended to produce u-
tilisation and to impart protection to the people whoa
be gemmed. It would have been easy for him to have
emend personal popularity when he entered his province
hed he denounced the free trade policy of other countries,
but ha chose to express his feelings cagdidly, and to use his
utmost exertions to conduct the affairs of the colony in an
amicable spirit. (Cries of " Divide," and Brotherton.")
Mr. BROTHERTON rose, but gave way to
Ile. GLADSTONE, who said that he bad given a distinct
emurance to the noble lord at the heed of the government, a
week ago, that, as far as he was concerned, it was not hie
intention to submit any motion whatever to the house upon
the present occasion. lie suggested that his right hon.
friend should withdraw his motion, and that the debates
should be adjourned till that day se'nnight, in order to pied
time for the full consideration of the subject that had been
thus brought before the hoses.
Mr. BROTH ERTON moved the adjournment of the
bunk
Mr. BERRIES desired to ha re
ve fm the noble lord IMO
ooh assurance as that which he had requested from him.
Lord J. RUSSELL could sot give such an assurance. In
relation to the proposed adj urament for a week, he did not
think it expedient to adopt that course, but he would consent
to adjourn the debate till to-morrow, if the house **desired.
If, on the contrary, the house desired to divide at once upon
the right hon. gentleman's motion, unexpected as that motion
was, he was quite reedy to divide.
Mr. DISRAELI said that the motion of his right hon.
friendeould not have been unexpected. On the =teary, it
mast have been hilly expected. and he was prepared, under
all circumstances, to peas the house to a division on that
motion.
Strangers were here ordered to withdraw, but
The Marquis of GRANBY interposed a question whether
he had rightly understood that the noble lord proposed II
the debate was adjourned that it shott!d be resumed
to-morrow ?
Lord J. RUSSELL thought that was a question rather
for the house to decide than himself. He might, however,
say that he bed no wish to shrink from the division any
more than the hon. member ter Backs (Mr. Disraeli) ; but
fur the house it was a question of souls importance whether
they should divide now or not. lie thought it would be
more consistent with what was due to the character of the
house that hen. members should be aware that there wan
such a question t, be brought before them, and that the
decision should not depend on those who had heard nothing
of the intention to suomit such a motion until they entered
the house after that motion had been made. (Cheers, and
cries of " Divide " and " Adjourn.")
Mr. F. MACKENZIE inquired when the budget would
be brought on, supposing-the debate was adj .urned t
Lord I. RUSSELL—On Friday (this la) week. (Cries
of " Divide," and much confusion.)
Lord MAHON considered that the hon. member for Sal-
ford would do well, looking at the temper of the house, to
renew his motion. (Cheers, and cries of " Oh.")
Strangers were spin ordered to withdraw ; but after being
excuded for some two er three minutes, were readmitted.
During the exclusion it was understood that Lard Mahon
moved the adjournment of the debate.
Whet the doors were opened,
Mr. DISRAELI was speaking. He called on hon. mem-
bers to consider the consequence of postponing the deeierua
on the question in regard to tke business ot the house. Were
they prepared to coasent to the further postponement of the
budget for a week, which the noble lord had told them must
be the result ? Then, again, it was of the utmost conse-
quence that the packet which WAS about to leave England
to-morrow for Canada should carry out with it the decision
ot the imperial parliament on a matter so important to them.
Oa these grounds, he appealed to the house to diode at once
on the main question. (" Hear," and cries of " Adjourn,"
and •• Divide.")
Mr. GLADSTONE must make an appeal to the house
as emphatic as that of the hon. member for Bucks, not to
divide. (Cheer', and laughter.) He besought hon. (tenth-
men to consider the deep taunts involved in the question,
end the feelings of thus, people—on: fellow subje este, who
were removed tiom us by many thousands of miles—to con-
sider the character of the house iteelewhich, he would ven-
ture to say, would suffer seriously, both here and elsewhere,
unless their proceedings in such matters were marked by
deliberation, calm temper, and dispresionste judgment.
After a few words from Mr. Roaarex and Mr. DAILY,
the house divided—
For the adjournment
Against it
The debate was accordingly adjourned tilt to-morrow (this

daY).
SEWERS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
This biU was read a amend time.
EXCLUSION OF STRANGERS.
On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL a select committee
was appointed to consider the present practice of the house
with respect to the exclusion of strangers.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
house adjourned at twenty minutes to two o'clock.