The Express.
London, England, 1847-12-04 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 4, 1847.

Lord J. RUSSELL—We bars Weal the PON" dia.
cession, • great variety of views prlmPAllsoSts Come naturally
topic., hays been touched on which MS .
also
sm.
within the 'cope of the debate. We have had
novelties of opinion, and • greet deal of discursive
disquieltioa ; but I am happy to fled that, in
thilowlBB the right honourable gentleman, I follow
one who has kept himself within the limit& of that which is
properly the subject of debate, and that he hoe given opi-
nions which, whether 1 differ from them or not, must be
viewed with greet respect, coming as they do from • person
of his experience, of his ability, and of his knowledge, both
of the constitutional and financial history of the country.
(Hear, hear.) I must however state at the outset that the
conclusioa to which I "hood wish to bring the house is very
different from that which the right hon. gentleman seems Co
have adopted when he prayed the how* at ones, whatever
else they might do, he the conduct of the government
blameable or praiseworthy, to do sway at all events with the
restrictions imposed by the act of 1844, and for the interest of
the country to give security to the mercantile class. Now, I
must say that as regards this house, considering the difficul-
ties of the subject—considering the perils to which we have
been exposed under the system to which the right hon. gin
finnan referred—and considering the differences of opinion
which now exist, it would be very rash in us at once I. de-
cide
without inquiry that you would abandon theaystem '
which was adopted by very general consent in 1844. But, in
order to give confidence to the mercantile class, his proposi-
tion is more objectionable became, se admittel by the right
hon. gentleman, you may come as the result of your inquiry
to some modification of the act of 1844 or to some other re-
salt, with regard to the monetary system; and what the
right hon. gentleman wishes, in order to give confidence, is
this, that you will abolish your present system, and repeal
your existing law, but what you put in its place dull be
matter of doubt and speculation for eighteen months. I
cannot conceive any proposition which would tend more to
create distrust and doubt amongst the mercantile class, and
which would more induoe commercial men to say, Let us Anse
in our transactions, let us abstain from giving orders to our
correspondents till we know what law is to be substituted
for that which has been abrogated. (Hear, hear.) Locking
at this question without any consideration of party polite, I
think our survey of it would be very incomplete indeed, if,
looking to the immediate cause of the meeting of parliament
at this period, we did not likewise look to that which oc-
curred before of a similar character in different pintoes of
our history. Within very few years after the passing of the
act of 1819 this country found itself in • state of very greet
prosperity. That prosperity, owing to the general inflation
of credit, led us, as it had done on previous occasions, to int-
' provident speculations, to various plans and projects which,
' as I think Mr. Canning said, soared like a balloon filled
with vapour, but which the slightest puncture of • pin might
bring to the earth. The period whieh followed was one of
extreme danger and alarm. Those who had the management
of the Bank oonsalted Lord Liverpool, Mr. Huskisson, and
Lord Ashburton. They could not have better advisers, but
the state in which they found affairs was such, that, as my
right hon. friend the member for Coventry (Mr. Bike)
stated, and as Lord Ashburton lately described, the governor
of the Bank of England beard with delight the striking of
the clock on Saturday which gave the Bank time till Mon-
day before they would be called on for any more bullion.
The result of the consultation on the Sunday was that the
Bank was advised, with the small amount of bullion In its
coffers—stated to be 1,000,0001., but in the opinion of Lord
Ashburton much less—to make • very hirers issue of teak-
notes. That was a bold and wise coarse in a great emer-
gency, but, at the same time, no person would wish that
the country should be again placed in such danger; and
though we may have escaped in 1826 with a great sacrifice
of property, though we may have escaped the ultimate rash
of the Bank, yet if sachet:rine were to arise again, the result
might be more fatal. (Hear.) Every one at lemet must wish
that such a eataatrophe should be averted by precaution
rather than meet it by so deeperat• a remedy. Again, in
1837, there wits considerable panic and distress, owing to the
state of credit ; and in 1839, as stated by my right hon.
friend the member for Portsmouth, we were in such • state
that, if there was the slightest internal drain, there must be
a easpension of cash payments. Now, this was a state of
very great danger, and it took plies under the ope-
ration of the act of 1819. I will state to the house the
amount of bullion possessed by the bank at these two periods ,
and the state of the circulation. In the month of February, 1
1824, the amount of bullion in the Bank was 13,810,0004 ; 1
the circulation was 19,736,0001. In August, 1825, the bul- ,
lion amounted to 3,634,0001. ; the circulation to 19,398,0001
so that, on that occasion, while the bullion had diminished
upwards of 10,000,0001., the circulation was only altered by
300,0001. In the month of March, 1838, the bullion in the ,
Bank amounted to 10,015,000/. ; the circulation 'mounted to 1
18,800,0001. Is September, 1839, the bullion amounted to I
2,816,0001. ; the Bank ciiculation to 17,980,0001. Thus
whilst the bullion was diminished from 10,000.0001. to under 1
3,000,0001., the circulation only diminished 640,0001. New i
considering that such was the condition of the Bank 1
under the sot of 1819, and that its effects had been I
such in 1825 that Mt. Huskisson declared they were within 1
24 hours cola state of barter, and that in 1839 we were in I
such a state, that the slightest internal drain would bays 1
canoed • suspension of cash payments, I do think it wee not i
surprising that a oommittee of the house should have recent- I
mended—and that the government of the country should I
have, in 1844, endeavoured. to find whether, by some I
alteration of the system, that which all persons who i
consider the subject on right principles wish to pre- I
serve—the convertibility of Bank notes might not be I
made more secure. Now it is my conviction that to ,
a considerable degree the government of 1844 succeeded
in giving. greater security to the convertibili= beak. I
note, and averted moose of the evils which o
have oocarred during the late pressure. This, I think,V
Tel-
lows even from what the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Hee- '
Mies) mined to. Ia 1825 and 1839, if the &ern had gams
en * little longer, ft would have been Impassible to give es
et the Beak ii England. But there was no such danger at
the present time. The amount of bullion in the Bank
diegalthed Ikea 18,000,000 to 9,000,000. I will not now
discuss whether the Bank &mild not have taken pre-
cautions ban August het But, in the month of
April last, a very remarkable letter haying appeared
in the Timm, showing the continued drain of gold
whisk sea rims an, and ant this drain all moped
on the della Bank, and le as way on the dinnamt se
armadillo, the Beth dire lausediataly begandes=
their seem* its • peat extent they limited their
and tram the meth damn to the
amity et hen, the
rthelatiost was dieddeked ta 1 ,0021. At dint
time them was madderable distrust pals • I be-
lieve that Mtke Beth dinette bed ast sere %haithey pro-
ceeded ht therms amuse theytheild Ware the provisoes
of the ed et 111% they wedil lthe aimed the draln el
' geld te re an, end we drill then lave bad, as an
two thaw memdeea still maim eases lte alas.
La pint at het 11,000,0001. or SADAO& ia geld is the
' lowest mesa whiiit the bank bas Mid, sal this has pre-
Ivenad OM emvehlea wish:hyena am oseurrlag ea the
' hmse thishms le which I him al aid. Bat there is an
ease nudism la which I de not with to give any *don,
md whiolV I think, Imo rehired to die mtheleees, in
miler that may eeeerteia whether any hellsee pesan-
thee ma be . (Hem liar.) The right Isen. gentle-
men Ms Mitred to what took place la the thath it Oses•
bar. thee ageelally to the latter which mq Sight hem Mend
ithe Ohnesdlar ef the IteiebetEase) wide im the Path, and
he says that we have ast dead the eiro nmehmess einewstwi
with that Islam I thought *dam righthaa.hiendhaillated
those sinnuthethes may dearly and k great death
bat I will, nemethelem, myself Metre to the min
features of the mat There had beam in the year
1846, as in the pears MS sad 111811, a veep toe-
=state dibbles. There was ene in abandons of
draft rummies were anxious to piese it out at 2
per mat intend, end mad hardly obtain area that. Con-
weerinthr with meth a rate of interest there was a great seek,
isig she new edema ler advantageous investment, amen-
maid, mime them been the ms, by a daemons, and wadi
spirit of epedellea Now I do not mean te ger that it il
matter of Nam that el regards many or thrairs26llll
those who seithd into them had not solid Ike
' their waddles'. I remember Mr. Tierney's maths is this
Imam, with lb natural shrewdness, that the pinta who,
OM 'ma h • 111111=1•01, may have been the pet bdme
la
""ellat:eilt te reelmen alba is sOled,
MK pad= &teak Meath dhio.
One piths may be me* ememefal la enth elation;
easibm, The had hiss* reasanalths may be
era* deeded by • them of fortes* AIWA/ ether
this. the emend lest year what mad be Impaledld
blame either is the permanent or to the parties imam •
dila* sonotensd, • very peat failure of the path ever.
In ties beginning et this year w• had greet symptom et
the reaurreacs et Met thews ; Letters make 111 WI all parte
of the °many datin that it was amnia mdthg its
ramps. I .ftesgra it necessary, ma the
whole home
aped as te the assamity that the sew km timid be
suiraded. Mesa poems *Midas. It wield, the Simi
wadi be • With pint et tam aniseed hate vary arso span-
Law hi diagonals It so herresetasesehewsmetetedry
s
the gesthess dPanthers the potato the
teldin • fortnight thee the unfavoarabie esseente thee Let
seeded; and, althengh we had • brewed meths, the
mama weather was se &thimble, that we bad net wily a
plentillei bet an may bervna As a mama
•••• WWI WI Ansa loved for a very deer ==ile
me in whith the ;thee was considerably daprassil, and
theipsidator embinnioß ft for anything like the Ina wide
bolsi Pan al iii, That is am resent why veryeameldenabis
thetretreltil men the mententile world. The caabloodon
of Mbar avione. metalling together, led to that Which me
shine amid net bur awed to produce. Take the ease of
the maws? speddlem. I believe that, if this waft had
Imelleisg. spesially if we had not had des ma-
ham of dim hew it ebweitilidratO cop d last year, the en-
itionsi
=nsa lave bees kept within due
amilisr=not lava bean hod too great ter the
lean espial of the countrissitemoire, bear) But when
1 to mlionnia railway a yea have to add
=L
pill 'OM and eett
se doinuilinar tending
le Ow no Wy he Mather si rise
the he wink aumoula world hlt the ilikalty of psurprocur
Urania ; 184 184 beano manse ; that that which, a-
pas ase, We es be had by skean an one at 1
or 2 per ant, sail na be had at 6,6, or even 7 per cent.
lona art pug rialionsionan in the whole of the com-
=Mai ankli Hireimesk, let es look at the position of the
Sink Wltiong say positive or dogmatic opinion
tam dr oahlia meg say that it has been the decision of
polkaing hr a wiry period that we should not embark
mthe iloopione e• state currency, (Raiz, hey. )
we plass the thimbles of that part of the currency whisk
maim at prof easitealtble into cola in the hands of a gnat
bank, whlth eats le • aft& dent, a momly, The,
Bank diailiii, onlighell et _Pekes who to hi
usreiniss nagnally ammo perform all the ordi-
dlitimulit aro Oho
boootrizikli
tors; they endearonr
tai,,y, gliwAgas. dada =rest of the day, and
hw pintas tusk a the MMus* which they pursue
with regard to onnaamie lo para. Now, without enter-

ing into general (ovations, with regard to what is currency
and what to not, it is evident that a great part of the trans-
actions of the country are carried on by means of mercantile
paper, that is, by means of bills of exchange, which are dis-
counted and rediscounted, and go from merchant to mar-
chant, and from manufacturer to manufacturer, and that a
large proportion of the transactions of the country rest upon
the credit which is due to that paper, and to the facility with
which it is passed from hand to hand among those who
conduct the industrial occupations. But when there arise
!failures in the mercantile world—when, owing to the tin
! enmetanc• of envoi the speculations, whether justly or not,
being sinsuoomsful, one.houscafter another fails, then begins
distrust; then, the commercial world in general, not know-
ing exactly which house will stand end which house will
mu, refer to the Bonk of England as a great state machine—
, a machine to be put in operation for the benefit of the public
' and not for the benefit of the particular proprietary to
which it may belong. Now, sir, I have seen an illustration
of that in the language and conduct of the directors of the
Bank. On many occasions I have observed that if they had
only to consider their own interest, they would hesitate
very much in giving discounts, and they would act like
prudent private bankers and firms in general, merely for
their own supposed benefit. But then they are told, " You
must consider the interests of the public ,• everybody at
Liverpool, Glasgow, and Manchester, is looking to you at
' this moment to support some great firm which is in diner
of suspending payment, or some great bank which is in
peril of stopping— the industry of the whole district will be
sacrificed if you do not interfere." I must say that on such
occasions the position of the Bank becomes a very compli.
cited one. If by any contrivance of legislation or of
administration we were to provide that the Bank
' should at all times consider the interests of the
public, and not alone those of itself, or if, on the other
hand, the public were generally agreed that the Bank has
nothing to attend to but its own interest, and that, on occa-
sions of distrust and discredit, no man should go to the Bank
for any other accommodation than he would get as a easterner
in ordinary times. In either of those cases, I say, that the
duty of the Bank director, would be simple and the problem
easy of solution. But acting at one time, as it is natural for
them to act, employing the balances of the exchequer to ob-
tain a mercantile profit, and then being suddenly called upon
to consider the great interests of the state, their situation is
' difficult and perplexing beyond measure. (Hear, hear.) I
say, therefore, that although it may be said that at one time
they ought not to have fixed so low a rate of interest, and,
at another, they ought to have lowered the rate, I that it la
desirable that we should make every allowance for the double
! duties which they have to perform—(hear, hear)—duties
which have been imposed upon them by the state, and which
they could hardly perform, so as at once to satisfy the
state and the proprietors. Now, sir, what was the posi-
tion' which the Book held in the beginning of October. Let
me say, once for all, that I do not believe that the act of
1844, or indeed any other act, with regard to the currency,
which the legislature may have passed, could have
prevented commercial panic and difficulty. We give nearly
all our measures credit for more than they can possibly
perform. We give them credit for doing that which they are
not likely to do. This has been the ease with regard to ca-
tholic emancipation and the Reform Act. (" Hear," and
laughter.) Let me say, in a parenthesis, that while I
think free trade produces, and will produce ultimately still
greater benefit to this country, yet the benefits of free trade,
like those of every other measure, have been exaggerated
by those who have been its advocates. (Laughter.)
I shall say this, not as a particular, but as
a universal truth. (Hear, hear.) But to return
to the immediate subject of discriusion. What we had to
hope from the act of 1844 was, not that it could prevent com-
mercial panic, but that, when commercial panic arse, the
currency would not be in effect destroyed, and the waver-
tibility of bank notes into coin would not be lost amid the
prevailing commercial eonfuaion. In that respect I think
the act has, in the main, been successful. The right hon.
gentleman says we have not said what was the state of the
Beak when we proposed to interfere ; and then, contradict-
ing his own assertion, he proceeded to read it from the
Gazette returns. The state of the Bank was this : If, at the
commencement of the month of October, it had considered
merely its own interest it would have allowed the paper
which it had lent to be repaid without making fresh leans,
and It would then have been in a state of security, having a
sufficient amount of reserve. But, pressed on all sides to
afford some relief to the suffering credit and commerce of the
country, the Bank made large advances to houses which
they considered solvent. At the middle of the week
which ended with the 23rd of October, I began to
think that the chief difficulties had been sur-
mounted, as confidence was beginning to prevail
in London. But there suceeeded great panic and distrust in
the country. There was the breaking of a bank at New-
castle, and a run upon another powerful and wealthy bank
in the same town, upon which the industry of the whole
neighbourhood depended. The gentleman who was the
agent of the Bank of England in that town advanced to the
letter bank all the gold that he had in his poseestiou and, in
addition, he sect to Leeds for 40,000 sovereigns. This bank
got over its difilculties, but there were well-founded
rumours of slake difficulties in other parts of the
eseng. The Ono of the Bank was then what the right
hem. has stated. While the bullion in the issue
'WM 7,865,0001., the amount of the notes and
lei On earn taken to ether was 1,994,5181. the
note, ohm emerealeg to 1,847,2701. Now under these
eirouwelemso l eggemed to me that if there should arise
imam feed egew Win and similar pressure on commer-
aid lbw la jrztierwareat citi, awl applications to the
Beek flie be reused, there would be
mil mil but a amend eaavehlee in the
aaaaw sdile wild not fail to ant very mask die metro -
tioves the Bank itself meal lamtlybe safe. Sir,
Otis Bank was not that teldelil have stated ;
ac ceaveyad to • inset switressana nnarsh.
ereithas they could comply with the paimilevas el the law
Aid nelatain their position. At the same Vass the governor
With, Bank frankly ceedismd to us that if Mei iris as than
le whisk I have Oudot should arise, or wash es bed m-
eowed at Liverped • this while Deice, they mold
am give further sammodalka, sad tbesto=ittiamo=
siliged still hater le raise the
=re. N
time zlimularea
ientroarrures. we
presetetreretti
Ilia was we to arise tem the penal of the Bank re-
=which mast have impaired ia the aortae of the fol.
Friday, it was semeary to adopt some easerdinesy
smasese. I must of in the seas
say seasWs dare the
of our so samthbas hardly lam hunted- (Hest,
lawn)) My hon. friend the member Awe
Tower Sm.
ima fed, indeed, day memo &ebb ages that premed-
=maim bow ossersed dam Mat Ms in tee bed
MEM* wiya that the Of lea was osier
latsd mar esia sq and that Mist* ft was mess
madly shwa& with mils, cis evils were much less than
them al* would hove sembei from a contrary 110121111.
Mom km) It has beim said we waght not to have sea-
dosed saggemisalar rate of Istneet. I must makes that
I had base my eyea, dories the whole of that
swam peak the Meier list by MU hiss step we
might message mahesded speculate, sad thus
sloes Or marothie *errancy is tee greeted danger.
toesasmt we lid the eteluiagee is ear &veer ; gold
via tonsig fas and, it was probate, it are had been
thee, that ow Maoist say osteserliatry aware, the
Beek wadi bare bra_ is. • mean be ertlesd Ms discount,
sad to On tanks, adrenal assielar M oroammos,
bet than we bid the her Mao our eyes lest by any im-
pudent mean of cow ins pen= the course of the
, sad • state of things from
=min istri s,
de te weeps without, on the
ewe head, a midis emiesstim ef the werresey, or, on the
odor, • empesale• of esek mum& It ma radar that
=4on that I, he my part, willimpy arced we
1:1 ei the step, which I at eme admit lobe toetrazy
to a tele, et tommaradlag • Wt mss
el ram to be
tabasd bg the Bra. It sosata le ar the abst of
dir=asalliigrall to Dili are cob be Ma lass
11 Ms gmmeare he distimM, s
add
astir mdblindla would
the saw likely to aim 16
arabis add the at gold would emedeig at
Ow. Them, la feat, ire bees, ea we emmiel
wall be, the molt. The Mini of gold has
Wads reserve la the Boa is mew as ism, I bare Om
da airy& I hies do madmns_ vast, If ve balsa r-
abi reilliga I mo dmisibed, the mom sosair
Ehave owslimedi edged,
_Wine they would. Om
ms to ream omilimos nniengleing Sae is Ingo-
tiotoolaßoa sail keit swat believe it vM be
fly Aiwa Mot ma moms vas gar sessual.
Hitt asset debt Ma. imihmat who spis
he IliaMby aids romm paha the rem-
oras id lbw we lam ereps4 ola may guard
di in elms. $e ewe without Axing any
ne imam of the Beek; sad another bon gentle.
ato swum Ste linatiegilles (Yr. T. Baring) likewise
eat» the ether eight le tell his whether maid set
• M am/ sin it ail plow liberty of essidog
grim emmeerme el the assatey, sled& dry be
ills
hod to require ma orrism at a Arm rad. Now,
dr, when I am asked these questions, I am obilged to in-
quire in return whether than knowable gentleman really
have fixed in their own ands what they wish to
do, and to what end their propuitims want lead (Hear,
ham.) They are both ad _
Hoer of • wareasy seavertihr
isle gold upon demand ; they maid at with ohm al
dried- the recurrence of a seimpsioa of mash mama by
the Beak. (Hear, hear.) Weli, than, ma mar Oa litst
Ore mast be some mode by whisk that reserreme mast be
promated ? (Hear, hear.) Tot may say Om ibe andi•
c:mttety the hill of 1844—that the greet somarmisi
erected by the act of parliamat—is arm sail
mischirrow ' • but you swot help minimise that toss,
must be a certain degree of deem sashed by lbe Desk,
or else that it will be to rasa mast the mks-
chiefs which led to mewls= on *OM meatiem.
(Cheers.) Mr. Pitt, vissa be smeared large hem hr the
Bank, during the long pried is which he astathassesd the
drain of this country, trd to MVO lONEIIIIO al&
sores which the sot approve. Bat Mr.
Pitt never meant that these assesses amid had
to • suspension of oat Imam (Hear, bow.)
It was surely no part of the say of • statesman ke eon
I ducted the affairs of this ovary with so mush skill, sail
I with such steady aim and purpose, to resat, as ea ultimate
meollatoi to a enemy not payable ups dowsaL Neither,
/ wIII gameme M es was it hh Amin le irk Massif at
that point whim ha 1787 is tb• milt of the operations of •
war, he was lead by iimamatemes to resort te that ex-
, um. =due* AMMO 1011181110. (Cheers.) And if this
were so, let vs, dr, MN. that the mas danger whisk our
incurred in that indent by reqdriag_heavy kom hue me
Bank for the use of geleensitent, meld be equally immed
if you laid the Bank ems is the &meads hem amemeelal
houses for the purpose el Offilgoefieffi fie patiflas 1111 their
credit. (Cheers.) Yet this is dr -seam MS Ma. glade-
men would advise us to panne. (Rama asses.) How-
ever much they may abhor the idea of • sympeades of ash
payments, Use measures they would propose, with-
oat meaning or intending it., would necessarily, from
the lax administration of the 13enk, lead to a state of

tisii white meet reek either in a contraction, which
would rain half the commercial houses of the country, or
else
great an
ae
visit suspension of
could
a,
ecrausi
averted.
(Muchpayments,
cliy heereLhgic)h aAlonriegheot
honourable gentleman has spoken to-night of the differences
in the opinions of writers of great ability, and of great ex-
perience upon this question. Now, I do not wish to enter
into the matters of theory discussed by Tooke and Fullerton
on the one side, and by Mr. Jones L,yd and Norman upon
the other. They have all discussed the question with great
rigaLbil4d,,tobieuwtthstlenit.i.,t
thewhi cliptitialeern
onsfewthus...farßthanmeoierecothwenommwth,
eidenitdrhthowneo-ithh
these writers differ as to the act of 1844, I find no greater
difference between them as to the way in which the principle
of the act should be carried out. They are agreed that
whenever the bank finds the drain of gold going en,
and the exchanges becoming adverse, that it is the
duty of the Bank then to take measures gradually
and prudently to stop the drain, and to keep
the Bank in a steady position. Both Mr. Tooke and Mr.
Jones Loyd are agreed that this should be the end the Bank
should seek to attain. It may fairly be a question whether
by the enactment of 1844 you are able to attain this end; but,
certainly, there are none who have ever thought much upon
the currency who have not agreed, that when there is a drain
of gold it is incumbent on the Bank to adopt a course of pre-
deuce. It may be doubted whether the act of 1844 stif-
ficiently provides for the exercise of that prudence by any
certain rule. For my part, I think, that en these subjects
you not only require a rule, but persons who are impressed
with its value to administer that rule. I concur, therefore
in what was said by a right hon. friend to-night, that On;
committee, if appointed, ought to consider, first, how far the 1
provisions of the law are sufficient ; and second, how far we '
can obtain a steadier administration on the part of the Bask,
by preventing the control of parties who attend the meet-
ing of directors only occasionally, and who hold varied
opinions upon the subject of the law. (Hear.) But
whatever the house may do with regard to this in-
quiry, I hope, sir, above all, that it • will not
consent to adopt the advice of the right hon. gentleman who
spoke last, and commit itself at once to a decided opinion.
Although, as he justly said, from the year 1810 to the
present time, this subject has emplJyed some of the ablest
men of England--although it has been directed by the views
of Lord Grenville and Mr. Huskisven, of Mr. Horner, Mr.
Canning, and of some of the ablest living writers, yet I be-
lieve that on a subject so difficult, so Intricate, and so im-
portant, there are still many and most potent truths to be
acquired. It is possible, should It seem desirable, to make
some modifications of the great plan of 1844, n order that
the eurrency of the nation may be worked more steadily and
securely. (Hear, hear.) That is quite possible, should it be
desirable. But, air, 1 must say with regard to the act of
1844, that I do consider that act to be a great improvement
on the seta which preceded it—that I do belMre it
has, in a great degree, answered its purpose—and
that I find, since it hsi been in operation, that we
have never been in that position in which the Bank was
likely to be left without a single sovereign in its coffers.
(Cheers.) Though the act of 1344, therefore, may not have
cured commercial convulsion, it has done much to keep the
currency from bring affected by the evils attending com-
merce. (Renewed cheers.) Holding this view, I beg the
house to appoint a committee to consider soberly and. calmly
the whole bearings of the subject, and not by passing any
sudden or precipitate resolution to cause mea to doubt
whether it is the intention of parliament to maintain the
convertibility of the paper currency and to preserve the
metallic standard of the nation. (The noble lord resumed
his seat amid much cheering.)
Mr. J. REYNOLDS said that in the course of them de-
bates attention seemed to have been directed exclusively to
the effect of the act of 1844 upon England only. He had
heard nothing said of that act as it affected Scotland or Ire-
land. Soon after the bill passed, he, es a member of an
Irish deputation, had an interview with the right hon.
thrown on the subject of its operation ; but all that be re-
mised from him was a display of the extreme courtesy
and great patience for which, as he understood, the right
him baronet was so peculiarly remarkable. (A laugh.)
Hs could testify that the operation of the act a 1845 had
been most injurious to the Bank of Ireland, and as a matter
of consequence to the commerce and trade of that country.
The right hon. gentleman (Sir R. Peel), indeed, had, in an
interview on the subject, when he complained of the restric-
tions imposed upon the Bank of Ireland by that measure,
reminded him that the Irish hankers could issue notes to the
extent of their Million ; but, as a practical man, he urged
, upon the right hon. baronet that toe profits of the bankers
upon circulation might very well be more than balanced by
the loss upon the locked-up bullion. (Hear, hear.) It most
be borne in mind that banking profits arose in a great degree
from trading upon one's credit, in contradistinction to one's
capital. ((treat laughter.) Before this patchwork legisla-
tion came into operation the rule with bankers in Ireland
had been simply this—the entire liabilities of the parti-
cular bank to the public were calculated, and then, in times
of ease, the minimum amount of gold and silver retained
to meet thole liabilities was one-third, or 6s. Bd. in the pound.
This rule had been found to work well ; and it had yet to
he proved to him that the act of 1844 for England and 1845 '
feelreland had effected any improvement in the matter.
As an Irishman, he would more emphatically all
upon the legislature to release banking in Ireland from the
oppressive restrictions to which it had been subjected, restric-
lions which, in their consequences, imposed upon man an
Industrious, struggling, farmer or trader the payment ofy full
15 per cent. interest for advances.
Sir R. PEEL then rose and spoke as follows—Mr. Speaker,
I treat, sir, that any observation I may have to maks on the 1
snai,ect now under the consideration of the house will be
in that temper and dispassionate spirit which 1 I
characterised the speeches of the noble lord and his
right hon. friend. (Hear, hear.) I cannot but ewer, in
IMMEMOM MOW. Me imam any, my ,lasses at the
return to this house of my right hon. friend the member for
Stamford (Mr. Herrin), and my congratulations that, by
that return, the house will have the benefit, in matters of
this kind, of his great intelligence and great practical ability.
(Cheers.) Before I address myself to the subject--the im-
mediate subject—of debate, I wish to clear the way by a
reference to a charge that was made against me last night
' by the hon. gentleman the member for Stafford (Mr. Ur-
quhart), and which has been repeated to-night by another
hen. gentleman—oertainly in the most courteous manner in
which it is possible to prefer an accusation. The charge
made by both those hon. gentlemen is this, that in
bringing forward the act of 1844, as the organ of the
government, I gave a public assurance that the bank-
mg establishnents of Ireland and Scotland should
not be sdbeeell, but that the bill of 1844 should refer exclu-
sively to this peel of the Vatted Kingdom ; and thehen.gen-
Unman, the saber gat thethed, went so far as to say that
an insidious siestose had been taken of Scotland—that the
cupid= and Judaea, et the people of Scotland, which had
been peouliarly excited en the subject of banking, had been
allayed by that mommos • and in figurative language the
hoe. radices& added, that the banking system of Scotland
had reabolleth me a stab in the bath The hon. gentle-
man sappeated that sharp by a retinas. to the first clams
of the tat of 1844, nag hating awated that I had pub-
licly &mend In 1844 that*. bank2=tem of Scotland
was not to be in the by that act, he
asked what would the el the rigid hon. gentle-
man, who, having that amenthr, heisted in the set
surreptitiously bet alma which provides that me beak
in any pert of the eked Kingdom which op to Kay, UM,
did not hem seem death' not be allowed to issue Asia for
the future, and the ben. gentleman went on to quote from
my speech the peeler In which I said " Of Ireland and
Scotland I have made no mention proposing to reserve for
separate legislation the stets of the currency in each of those
countries.' From that statement, supported on each
authority, the house might naturally have inferred
that the accusation was well founded, but what
will the house think of the honourable gentleman who,
having read that passage, omitted to reed the next, which
was to the following effect? " The prohibition against the
establishment of new banks of Write will extend both to
Scotland and Ireland, (cheers) both of which will be ia-
dthed in those enactments, which will require the perfum-
eries for the future of certain conditions peoliasinary to the
Issasiag of new joint stock banks." (Fleso, heir.) Could
then be, on the part of a minister Waging keened a
merman, a more distinct and heath swarth that,
=the currency under 61. was to he thesread
and in Ireland for separate bighktion, yet that the
not, es applied to this country in theme to the prohibi-
tion el new banks of ism 'heel& aka to all parts
of the United Kingdom ? (Cheers.) lhat, moreover, not
Daly was that eratermat given by a speech, bat it being no-
emu to bawl the bill a prolhelasey thoshatiens, to which
the moth of the lame lanaes, he
nt eighth rem-
WSW. mildsk I moved on the whoa I lit forward
theillossliteinsed which ties me truly ese
tstsy hoose—sot oa tha Wight ft which it was
aim* Dot after the thawed of ism age—sher it had
hew printed and eseammiseent be the Illeseek end Irish
hoboes, and publiehod every la the United
Kingdom ;iab resolution wee to allot :
Satire le preen* by law Os Lee at
sale% papa* beret* &mead ley sw bilk est IZleggna=
=re lay 1644. a lip rap bath thentass * be
kw pored Ile Unitai
Now I Sdak I obeli have thalami tie hones that Ha stab
were given to the banking system of SootUnd at the the ft
was aot given in the dark. (Cheers.) And the hem
sea stye be undertook, in a letter written ire laid,
lighten the people of Scotland on the ass of the bill it
that year, to warn them of what use hews la OM year
1846. I shall reply to his attack by giving Ida Wt friendly
advice: that when next ha eddies= the people of Scotland
Da the subject of a bill peadhe in this hews, he Mt takes
the precaution of seeding both. the resolution and the
balthsingiesr.) Her Ileleety's goveathasat have addressed
VIII to the prealar question of whether in no a
thamittes shall be_ oppolatied to encase the mime of the
empeat ammercial Mirth, thinks" the laws width rigs-
hen Sir, when a othernarest mesh to this house
ter the swain of this }seas ellatitsky which peculiarly
, I *maim Met wham' *aim as an I, indi-
•brtz te fl,
bra as to the yotialie soft of Inquiry, eW
it is impend ie to refuse list south (Han, hear.) The
heaths= of *sky me ear assidentiesud functions, and
if the 111111111111thilorM111116 bewilhoriOn that there me
not grease inquirr, then, I
=Tr ,A 4 le Wart MS* their appeal. An
ineasamint has moved on the motion of the aside
lord, rostra y to banking. I Use ea-
psalms e ile=er "PIS if the eassidallest wies
a="
marled, it be ithecallie le nein& sear brandess el
inquiry. Whoa** oothablee e/ UM was aggaithid, eye-
' that6fiepoinstYted4C, .mtaniziddtoduriagithed notistlis:rnwhekreighaigish el'
Ma
Impair warlaulthuyneri:ii,
1838.
sarvse
gaulrypx noithen(wpurtorul
tiste.lhantewthial):ll.thinki:themeam4iceslinithwilltheitireas=isadmietediseenvouthe:hrit
far is-
there ie
be
of the ifoTafaselali haanse I think that
s o
t emusereisl dist ressnht to be
msirrs.
(Hear,
hem) I
_et alluded fees sae
at sty slaty to OM to the

_____---_,..,
soh
house that I mean to devolve on no other , hon does not justly fall, the responsibility which attaches tome a.
o the part I have taken either with respect to the restoration.-
; the standard in 1819, or the attempt to mitigate the e,;, ":
i which accompanied our system of banking and eurre..-
--•
• previous to 1844. I feel that I did no more than tor de,.
. in 1819 and in 1844 in calling the attention of the bOice-Pi
i those points. Therefore, I do not wish to devolve e-
; others my responsibility, because in reverting to thee. -
t sures Ido not in the "lighten degree repent themes, I the.
• took. (Hear, bear.) But I must submit it to this its,--
1. whether it is quite decorous quite respectable to the olio,
i rector of a deliberative atelfliiMr CS aftmpt to make was
' individual member responsible for any particular cowls of
1 legislation. (Hear, hear.) Many members of this houses:.
1 not in their individual capacities responsible for the bill of
, 1844, but in their corporate capacity they deliberate on all
• public question', and nothing could tend more to dep •
the character of the Houses of Commons and Lox*
• than to countenance the impression that, in matters of dui
kind, involving the mint important interests, being in thus.
selvesof the most complicated nature, &measure deliberate'.
• adopted by the Lords and Commons, the whole resporna
lily of a measure should be thrown on the individual nimehts
who had happened to propose it. (Hear, hear.) what in
the facts with respect to this measure ? In 1819 the meentrs
for the restoration of the standard was proposed by me m a
private member of parliament, wholly unconnected withths
government. It was the result of the inquiries at
two committees-Commons and Lords. The report of ales
committee of the House of Commons, recoeamending the Ts,
monition of the standard, was carried with only medium,
tient voice ; and that of the Lords was, I believe, unanielom
Again, when I proposed the measure of 1819 in the Hopes
of Commons there was not one single division against tho
bill Land, so far as votes were concerned, the measure rs.
ceived unanimous concurrence. Objections were, indeed
raised b the right hon. member for Coventry ; but, if I re.
collect right, en the questions that the bill be read a mond
and third time, there were no divisions. In the Lords then
was unanimous acquiescence', excepting on the pot
of one member of the House of Peers, who
moved an amendment that whereas the bill proposed test
cash payments should not be resumed until 1823-Lori
Holland moved that 1820 should be substituted. He mu
not content to wait until 1823, but wished the bill to coma
into full operation at once. Now, se I said before, the ro.
storntion of the standard as the remedy for the evils of in.
convertible paper were wise measures for the security of pro.
party, and for providing a just remuneration fir industry;
and I do not attempt to relieve myself from their respen,..
bility ; but I think I am only. asserting the character
of both branches of the legislature when I invite
them not tacitly to relieve themselves from what was ay
fruit of their unanimous assent. (Hear, hear ) Well, then
we come to the act of 1844. I was then at the head of the
government, the Bank Charter was about to expire, and it
was necessary that some proposal should be made to the
house with reference to it. It was certainly, then, compe-
tent for us to have relieved ourselves from direct and imme-
diate responsibility, by proposing another inquiry. Bet
I beg to reound the house that when, in the
year 1844, I proposed a particular measure for
Its consideration, in five preceding years there bed
been five different committees -in 1836 1837, 1838,
1840, and 1841, I hear it now said, th;t the subject
was not exhausted ; that there had not been inquiry suffi-
cient, and that further inquiry was necessary. But in 1844
I found that the 'objects of currency and banks of issue had
taken up 3,000 questions and 3,000 answers in 1836; that,
not satisfied with that mass of information, the bigamy was
resumed In 1837, and 4,570 were added to the stock. 'Even
that was not enough. The committee was re-a?pointed in
1838, when 1,700 questions were asked and answered, and
even yet no practical resolution was arrived at. In 1840 the
expiration of the Bank Charter approached; the committee
over which the right honourable the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had presided with so much intelligence, was rs.
appointed, and to the stock of nearly 9,000 questions and
answers already accumulated, 3,859 were added, each quer.
Lion leading to a long and elaborately reasoned answer. And
in 1811, the questions and answers, then amounting to nearly
14,000, another committee was appointed, and that com-
mittee closed without any particular or specific recommen-
dation. (Hear and laughter.) Mr. Tooke, Mr. Jones
Loyd, Mr. Horsley Palmer, and other eminent
authorities, had been examined, and it appeared
to the government that the best course would
be to submit a measure to the House of Commons far the re-
gulation of the currency, preparatory to the termination
of the Bank charter, and to invite the house to come at last
to some specific decision. (Hear, hear.) The house did
come to a decision. Ido not believe that there ever was a
question carried by much larger majorities. I think, if I
recollect rightly, that not more than thirty hon. members
ever voted against the proposal of 1844. In the Lords, the
measure passed without opposition. (Hear, hear.) I say
again, therefore, that the House of Common" cannot justi4
itself in a matter of this kind, which ought to be kept free
from all party consideration., and concerning which at had
ample means of information, for having lightly, and inconsi-
derately given its consent to the proposal of the government.
The subject is now perfectly open to re-consideration.
(Hear, hear.) It would be unwise in any one irrevocably
to bind himself to opinions given in 1844. Nothing could be
more injurious than that any man should now refuse to come
to a different conclusion from that of 1844, if, after all the
experience we have acquired since on a question so compli-
cated, he should see just cause to niter his opinion. The
House of Commons would be justified in taking ad-
vantage of all this information, but it would
hardly be justified in saying that on any occa-
sion it had blindly given its assent to the propoesl
of any sinister or ministate. (Hear, hear.) I thank that
Ow» hike liccig come miarepreeentatoin as to the objects of
this measure. Ido not deny that one of its Alice.. we. ea,
prevent the convulsions which theretofore had occurred in
consequence of the neglect of the Bank of England to take
earnest precautions against undue issues of its treasure. I
certainly did hope that, although no imperative obligation
I was imposed on the Bank for the regulation of its conduct in
the banking department, yet that, after the experience of
1836 and 1839, the Bank would conform to the principles of
banking which its directors had acknowledged to be jest,
and from which they admitted they had departed, although
they had been prescribed as rola, for their irognlanco.
From the number of mercantile houses that have failed-
from the general insolvency which has occurred, I am bound
to admit that I have been disappointed in my hope with re-
spect to the main object of the bill ; but, even so, I mien
contend that it was in the power of the Bank to have alle-
viated mush tithe distress that was suffered.' (Hear, hear.)
If the Bee Montagu early precautions, which it 'ruin their
power to km tedeth-if they had had energy and resolution
to meet the first Magi,' by timely perseverance and deter-
mination-by riding the rate of discount-my firm pecan-
'ion is, that the necessity for that extraordinary interven-
tion to which her Majesty's government had resorted Ism
October, would have existed. I cannot therefore lay
that the state to which the country has been lately reduced
was the effect of the bill of 1844 exclusively. I believe that
the executive instruments, by whom that bill was to have
been carried into operation, might, by ' sad
energetic measured, have prevented the necessity of '
its provisions. (Rear, hear.) It was said that
object of the bill was to control the Bank of England sad
prevent the recurrence of former panics I distinctly said,
upon the seeood reading of the hill, that such a result vroW
est necessarily follow. Towards the elm of my seck
upon the second reading, I expressed this opinion:-" No
minister could be wild enough to 'appose that this mecum
would prevent all undue speculation in paper currency, bat
there was a species of speculation, independent of
paper currency, which, it was hoped, the bill would
be capable of checking." There was no attempt to
cripple or control legitimate speculation. The oleest
of the bill was a triple one. In the first, I admitted
already, it had failed, but in the two others, width
oare :at Isnot, as great importanoe I say it bee amessied
_ y ; and my firm belief is, that the dillealthe viii
halo lately beset us would have been infinitely
it yen had not wisely and judiciously =en
liellendes of limiting your paper currency. TM bee.
mamba he the city of Dublin spoke of the grieves *SS
emitinei by Lodged in consequence of the interferers with
the *haw of boatels in that part of the Until Meg-
deth.. Titiellen, gondemaa's authority was glade, Milled
to bss elellements were oartaialy modrivavr.
Ea sail IYt beekteg brminees in Ireland was sordid ea am
epee MOM hot spun medic. I have mat Ow the
hos. goeilmma sielensethe-es efrar
Bank ef Athol ls
therm doesning eleseeifiennth be
st I
meth All that kma manna, with gm*, bat with =
eel that I should auk rather bane his
Iblia MI (lethlther.) If ever was a country ea
the fee ef the earth, the poorer simnel of which lei
seared the thmeill month of Wan aid ansforteas
finea the ether ef linekion, it wee that seentry of Ifbile
the honourable gentisease had Rohm Bat I eiß
ruaimvs en GOMM authority on the subject of leilk
Iridium too. Sir Henry Parnell, Irritate' a
that in 1827, all : " The losses that Ireland has se-
Mined by the fallen of bar basks, might be described in a
veep Sew worlds. Throe were in 1804 as_ appeared by the
repot et the ocensdlese open Irkk ezehanes, 60 Moto"
hanks. Bisbee that yew a great any more had thee the.
blithei-90 awe probably, making 70 in all. With thl °l'
myths of • Aw which withdrew from burliness, and four in
AMIN three ha Botha, and one in Mallow, the whole had
Ailed ens after the other, involving the country in the
=Weary and distress." I recollect, sir, in 1820, the
almost in one day of eleven banks whom note.
had circulation through almost the whole of Ireland,
but at all event through the southern and western parte.
I was in the west of Ireland about ten days afterwards, and
I mold not possibly describe anything like the misery end
destitution I witnessed. The hon. gentkunan (Mr. Reynolds)
said that banking in Ireland was carried on upon the prin-
ciple that they reserved gold to cover one third of their
liabilities: my recollection on that suldeet is entirely at
variance with that of the hon. gentleman. I think if he bad
stated that Irish homicide held one tomtit of gold in proportiaa
to the whole extents of tkeir liabilities it would have been
: nearer the mark. I siimald like to know whether the Agri-
cultural Beak of Ireland kept the third, bat if tankers
wished to adopt preoentioas whist thoolverg
_end tale, the
bill of 1844 say aided ales in Abe ea. nip wasmy
large was new FrailiOng nun diens', ad
the rsathelisa el eignaL Thlt tholhari*epTito visit with
blame that they ammo only far I am marines&
, your dialealtles weak! bath been fifty times greater. 1
r shalt mew. with the permision of the house, read one or two
ummash limn the writings else eminent a financier as ever
lived. Ad= Smith, in his well-down work " The Wealth
of Nalime." says:
No howergens stem amen Uwe Sot it • sr 'ski of
ravism. . US vile.. is=
doleslow Is rem id& the• who
low nallhim le Ivy artat to bony IL
' Who ktoottlatewlllo 11mIstimmtdetrotaosaisartretb=
villa Bop base tostilia tittl..~piTptur, at tbe sir-
i tet, tartass••". 111.1.14111. li
, t• temlll yids outoollt tow rat the taw
!ry falls It dr amnia airs at It.
, Bob., sea elms pram bps Asa lo Mt inftill.

I

no other party, on whom it
lity which attaches to me is,
respect to the restoration or
,nept to mitigate the eras
of banking and earning
did no more than my duty
e attention of the house m
not wish to devolve an
in reverting to those mss-
roe repent the course I due
a submit it to this house
Ie respectable to the etta_
aiSnipt to make one
any particular emus of
r members of this heinous
responsible for the bill of
Mthey deliberate on all
end more to depreciate
of Commons and Lords
ion that, in matters of this
at interests, being in them-
me, a measure deliberately
sons, the whole responeibi-
on the individual member
(Hear, hear.) What are
are ? In 1819 the measure
was proposed by me as a
Lolly unconnected with the
It of the enqnirieo of
Lords. The report of the
one, recommending there,
rried with only env dissen-
was, I believe, unanimous.
ure of 1819 in the House
single division against the
neerncd, the measure re.
Objections were, indeed,
for Coventry; but, if I re•
t the lull be reed almond
lions. In the Lords thus
excepting on the part
louse of Peers, who
sae the bill proposed that
resumed until 1623—Lard
be substituted. He wee
: wished the bill to come
u I said before, the re.
remedy for the evils of ha-
res for the security of pro,
munerstioa fir industry ;
lull from their responsi-
awning the character
stature when I invite
lees from what was the
Haar, hese ) Well, then
s then at the head of the
s about to expire, and it
d should be made to the
a certainly, then, °mime-
es from direct and imam.
another inquiry. But
e that when, in the
particular measure for
,ding years there had
—is 1836, 1837, 1838,
said, that the subject
not been inquiry rut.
necessary. But in 1844
y and banks of issue had
answers in 1836; that,
mation, the inquiry wee
Wed to the stock. Even
tee was re-a?pointed in
eked and answered, end
arrived at,. In 1840 the
ranched; the committee
• Chancellor of the Ea-
ch intelligent*. was !e-
-arly 9,000 questions and
were added, each Ones-
y reasoned answer. And
ton amounting to nearly
pointed, and that com-
e or specific recommen-
Mr. Tooke, Mr. Jones
and other eminent
1, end it appeared
best course would
of Commons fur the re-
tory to the termination
is house to mime at last
hear.) The house did
e that there ever was a
ssjoritiu. I think, if I
us thirty hen. members
844. In the Leeds, the
(Hear, hue.) 1.74
Commons cannot j..
ich ought to be kept free
encerning which at had
Mg lightly, and intone:-
uft' of the government
en to reeensideration.
in any one irrevocably
1844. Nothing suuld be
ioadd now refuse to come
.f 1844, if, after all the
o a question so compli.
alter hie opinion. The
untitled in taking tui-
tion, but it would
that on arty mos'
meat to the_ pupated
sr,
er. hear.) I oink that
lid es to **AWN of
se et Its *WIN IMO 40
NAM had assured in
ine al Znoland to take
of its turaltre..

D imperative
tastes of its aVselt°l
after the experiment elf
form to the pr 144111111 et
knowledged to be /ask
had departed although
I for it irgeslatlen,
see that have failed—
▪ orsurred, I ma load
rd in my hope with ter-
but even so I must
the tank to him elle-
aired." (Rear hoer.)
os, which it was in their
I energy and resolution
ierseverance and deter-
ount—my firm perms-
streoniinary iaterven-
nent had resorted bet
I cannot therefore my
ea been lately reduce/
Nicely. I belie,* that
that bill was to have
, by peneve •g and
e neceesity of vio rag
IA said that the whole ,
Bank of England and
ice. I distinctly end,
at such a result would
• close of my speech
d this opinion:— No
pose that this measure
e paper currency, but
in, independent of
pod, the hill would
was no attempt to
Illation. The object
the first, I admitted
I two others, which
my it has coceseded
the difficulties whisk
infinitely aggravated
icioualy taken the
urrency. The hos.
f the grievous injuries
the interference with
if the United King-
we. of course entitled
Ming somewhat new.
rid was carried on not
great for the
der of the
conaideration, but I
vity, but with suavity
her ham his aping
.ver was a country on
asses of which had
sery and misfortune
tat country of which
hon. But I will
he subject of Irish
y Parnell, writing on
that Ireland has eos-
in be described in a

eu;-"Sypearoiliyikii
flanges, 60 registered
more had been Ma-
in all. With the ex-
business, and four in
the whole had
the country in the
elect, sir, in 1820, the
banks whom notes
whole of Ireland,
a and western parts.
days afterwards, and
like the misery and
man (Mr. Reynolds)
on upon the prin-
t one third of their
)jest is entirely at
s. I think if he had
ef gold in proportion
it would have been
rr whether the Agri-
!, but if Irish bankers
'vertu and ruin, the
so. The country at
-general distress and
des is to visit with
ch I em convinced
y times greater. I
,use, read one or two
a financier es ever
work " The Wealth

is Oat of it warelty
isms with thas who
barrow u Thom
Sewarafthowlne
,Immwtir, el sist-
Mot spoladis. It
▪ Ism aid ilas was-
▪ marrs isms of It.
lime le air Ma*