The Express.
London, England, 1848-03-11 00:00:00

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dared that report to be the baste of legislation. He had been
told that he had misrepresented the ben. member for Glas-
gow in having stated that his evidence before the import
committee was, that 100,000,0004 would be gained by the
abolition of the oorn laws. He had since copied from the
report what the hon. member had stated in evidence, and
he would, with the permission of the house, read the extract
he had made. The hon. member then read the extract, which
was to the effect that Mr. Macgregor's evidence expremed his
conviction that the taxation anposed upon the corn lied pro•
visions and the prohibitions upon the import of mod was far
greater—was, in fact, more than double the whole amount
of taxation paid into the treasury. ( Hear) The hon.
member (Mr. Macgregor) had observed on a former evening,
sotto vote, that he (Mr. Disraeli) had mist.. pretented his evi-
dence, by overstating the amount at which he had estimated
the duties on corn and provisions; but the extract which he
bad just read would justify his former ohm rvation.
But the hon. member was not content, d with being
examined for five days, he treated the committee with a
tariff of his own. (Hear, hear) In tide tariff, width was
to save the country 100,000,0001. per mum, he never
touched the duties on tea or sugar and on tobeeco he raised
the duty G.I. per pound. The reason that he (Mr. Disraeli)
singled out the boo. gentleman was that ha looked upon him
as one of the prime proposers of these measure a, awl as one
ef the most voluminous statistical writers el the nineteenth
oentury. (Laughter.) At a meeting which to k place
during the hon. member's canvas of the City of
Glasgow ono Mr. Adam Low relieved the tedium
of the proceedings by asking Mr. hiacmegor whether
he had not prepared Sir Robert Peel's tariff ?
(Lsugbter.) The abruhtnese and novelty of the question
took the meeting by surprise, and the bon. gentleman's
answer was as follows: " If the hon. baronet hut he en still
in office, and 1 had been still Secretary of the Bo in of
Trade, no consideration on earth should have induced me
to answer the question—(continued laughter)—hut as the
right hon. barunet is not in power, and as 1 come before
this constituency as to independent candidate, and have re-
signed my connexion with the Huard of Trade—(the hon.
member was here interrupted by "tremendous applause
which lasted for several minutes, and prevented the com-
pletion of the sentence.") When silence was restored the
hon. member said, " Sir Robert Peel bi log out of
office, I have no hesitation in saying that I had
the honour of preparing the whole of that tariff,
schedule, and all." (Loud laughter.) The lion. ic• lineman
added, that in this labour he had no assistant but his private
secretary, Mr. Lark. (Continued laughter.) Ile ( dr. Dis-
raeli) must say that in the opposition he had give n to the
right hen. baronet's tariff he heel not been aware of how
much of it was doe to the labours of Mr. Lack. (Loud
laughter.) He should apply to that gentleman fora por ion
of the hundred millions to make up the present deficiency.
(Hear, liar.) But on must also remind the house 14 a name
which bad occurred frequently during the tariff debates,
namely, that of the late Mr. Deacon Hume. The right
honourable member for Tamworth had frequently cup-
ported his tariff by quoting the opinions of Mr.
Deacon Hume. But that gentleman was more moderate
than the hon. member for Ola'gow. When he was asked,
"Have you in-ode a calculation oi how much the community
loses by the prohibitive duties and the monopoly of the
landed proprietors,'' his answer was, "Thirty six millions
per annum." (Laughter.) And this was the evidence on
which they had pasted lava which had ruined Lancashire.
(Hear, hear.) There was another gentleman who had been
examined and whose name he must not omit—one woo had
lately raid that the caly remedy left us was tes nurse our re-
sources acid get down our expenste; he meant Mr J. B.
Smith. What was that gentleman's evidence. He arid
at cote that the burden of the corn lowa was
greater than the whole of the taxes of the country.
(Hear, hear.) But the evidence of Mr. Macgregor
was the only evidence that satisfied the committee. Any
gentleman who said that the burden of the corn laws was
only fifty millions disappointed them. The hon. member
for Stirling, not basing estisfied them, was asked to explain,
and he was re length forced to say that the loss might be
sixty. and perhaos ninety million.. (Cheers.) The house
might laugh, but it was no leuehing matter in the face of a
deficit; au, besides, they hod rules the legislature of the
country. (Hear, hear.). He said this in the presence of the
noble lord at the head of the government, whom he was
glad to sec in his place, bat he was not surprised to hear he
had been unwell, seeing that he had had to rot,' the
country on the report of that committee. Why, it
was like smoking a cam while sitting on a barrel
of gunpowder. (" Hear," and laughter.) This was the
evidence which had given the brat impulse to the alenches•
ter school, of which the hon. members for Manchester and
the West Riding were apostles—champions of the two great
principle*, peace and plenty. (" Cheers," and laughter.)
Peace and plenty, in the midst of a starving people, and
with a world in arms. (Hear, hear.) He must call the at-
tention of these hon. gentlemen to such matters now, be-
cause, a!ter having mititesed, all their measures which
had blown up, noticed all their delusion,' which bad evapora-
ted, and pointed the attention of the holm t • all
the natural dimmers and misery they had occasioned,
he found that those honourable gentlemen, not contented
with what they had done, were already threateMov the
country with mother confederation, and another assault.,
There was, it seemed, to he aleague for tiseol reform, the ob-
jecte of which had already been chaos, proclaimed in that house.
From the more detailed programme, as it had appeared in a
highly talented and trustworthy littoral paper, he Raw that
they did not m an to limit themselves to fiscal reform, but
talked of throwing the burden of taxation on the landed
and other realised property it the country. He should like
to know what the, s' statesmen" of the north of England, and
the copartners of Linceloshire, many of whose interests did
not exceed 101. t r 201. a year, would say to this. (Hear.) Or
if be turned to the other branch of realised property, he found
that at the last payment of the dividends, Oat of 300.000
warrants issued, our third did not exceed 51. per annum, 4.1,000
or 20,000 warrants did not exceed 101., and that even of the
few laree payments of which so mutt advantage had been
taken the greet majority consisted of the investments of
banking and insurance companies, the capital, in fact, of the
commercial world. Therefore he could imagine nothing
more false or more unworthy of the talents of the member
for the West Riding titan to unfurl his banner
against watt he called the r. alised property of the
country. ( Hear.) What did all this mean ? Had they not
heard it stated by no le-s a person than the hon. member for
Manchester that the present was a middle class govern-aent,
and the! the middle classes looked to them fur legislation
to there advantage. A few yearn ago it had been held to
be the gee test opprobrium in the w-ield that the aristocratic
interest was upheld by data legislation. ( Hear, hear.) lied
they not been told in free-trade halls, and in former temples
of the musts, that class legislation was [...a ruin of the coun-
try ? Now, however, that they had obtained their ends, the
commercial system was working it. results. Havel, esta-
blished their political and parliamentary power, they said that
the government was • middle-class governme neand must work
for the middle classes. (Hear, hear.) But would gentle-
men on that (the opposition) side of the house submit with-
out a struggle to such views? (Hear, hear.) No, if they
-Mowed the triumph of there commercial doettiees to he
complete, it would be hut poor consolation for them to dis-
cover that the only return they bad for a diminished revenue
and the decline of commerce was the arrogant inch miens
of a class which had obtained power by (also aretences, and
now sought to turn it to their own advantage. (Cheers )
Mr. GLADSTONE wished he could in any way SUP'Sill
the lively interest which had been created by the remarkable
speech of the hon. member who had nett sat down. But
not bring able to do PO he shnuld contiue himself to the mat-
ter immediately before the house, bee• use he felt that in the
present positim of the country and of the world there was
no time fle personal discussions respecting ministers who had
retind from , ffiee. (Hear, hear.) He must, however, al-
lude in a few words to what the hon. gentleman had said of
the policy of the late government. The house must &reeve
that the ps.lley now assailed was hot only the policy .41840 ;
it compriffiented every step which had been taken in
chaeging the restrictive system of this country (Hear.)
The hon. gentleman had said the principles laid down by bin
right boa. friend (Sir R Peel) in 1842 were reasonable, tool he
supported them, hut in 1845 these principles were essentially
changed ; be then ad. pled the doctrines of the Manchester
school, and he opposed them. The hon. getelteran at-
tempted to draw a breed distinction between the principles
of 1832 11114 IS-IJ. Bat in 1832 his right hon. fl iend said
We have re-creed many articles from reduction of duty in
the hope that ere long we may ortteth increased facilities fur
commerce from other coun.rier,, hut it is our iaterest to buy
cheap whatever other, may do." (Hear, hear.) With re-
gard to extending our trade by negotiatietis with
foreign countries, the experiment was tried by the late go-
vernment, hut it failed, in consequence of the exagaerated
views which three countries took. (Hear, Mae) But the
chew made against his right bon. friend was, that having
started in 1812 an moderate and fixed principles, he in 1845
turned nouns and adopted those of the Manchester school;
whereas, he a reference to the epeeches of hie right hon.
friend in 1842, it would be seen that the principles he then
proceeded upon were the same as those upon which his mea-
sure of 1845 was founded. But they were now called upon
to give a cote on the great subject of commercial credit,
which lay ct the foundation of the whole entrimerei il system,
and involved not may the profits of capital but the employ-
ment of labour and the subsistence of the peeple.
(Hear, hear) At a time like this, when revolution
was spreading through the nations of the continent,
and the strong, st 0-rime perhaps in Europe had been ...re-
turned, we were more especially called upon to movide for
the safety of our own country. Ile called upon them, there-
fore, in the present discussion to throw over eve ry Tuition I
that did not affect tee reel merits of the subject. ( Hear.)
Three plans had been proposed for their adoption : First,
there was the plan of the noble lord (Bentinck) to renew the
income tax for one year only, in order that the present
system of tuition might be revised with a view to the re-
imposition of those customs duties which had been taken off
by the late government. Then there was the preposition
of the hon. member for Montrose (Mr Hume), who also pro-
posed to renew the income tax for one year, Isis
object b inn to compel such a reduction of the establish-
ments of the country as should by the end of that time bring
the public expenditure within the income. (Hear.) And
lastly , there was the plan of the government to renew the
tax for three years. The noble lord (13entinek) contended,
in opposition to this proposition, that the system of freedom
of trade, which was adopted with such promises of ultimate '
macaw, had ended in failure and disaster. (Hear.) He
(Mr. Gladstone) on the contrary, was prepared to show
that whet]. r they looked to revenue, income, trade, or em-
ployment of labour it had succeeded, if not to the extent
Of the n oat sanguine expectations, es far as any tea-
suable parson could have anticipated. (Hear, hear.)
No one could expect freedom of trade to give an equal and
uiform prosperity at all times and in all circumstances. The
commerce of this country would always have its periods of
ebb and flow, and it was enough to prove the success of free-
dom of trade, if he showed that R added to prosperity and
mitigated affliction. This had been the result of their legis-
lation since 1832. (Hear, hear.) He would take the arti-
cles timber and silk, two articles which had been the subject
Of much controversy—be would pass over brandy and many

ofterellideh bad been cfoctaally dealt with by the bon.mem-
bar for Westboro (Mr. Wilson)—and show that the result of
the reduction in the duty had been ah increase of import and
again to tee revenue. In 1841 there were 131,000 ends of
foreign timber imported, and the revenue seising from it
was 411,0001., after deductina 60,0001. allowed as drawback.
He would compere this with the unfortunate year 1847,
which was mare, ly a fair test; but he would take it never-
theleu. The they in the meantime hail been reduced from
565. 6d. to 21e. With this re luee4 duty the quantity im-
ported had iriereasyd to 437.000 loads, and the re-
venue to 451,0001. (Hear, hert.) The noble lord
seemed to eupp. ee that because the foreigner obtained some
advantage in the increase of price that we suffered • torte-
spending less, ae though commerce was a sort of war inohich
all that the for. igner g tined we meet aec warily lose.
(Hear.) The trice, the noble lord said, had increased by
10s. 10d. a loaf, the whole of which weutiuto the foreigner's
pocket. But tee reduction of duty had been 3.5 s 6d.
(heer.) Three-worths of that duty nearly had therefore
been saved to the cnusemer, not* itbstonding the rise
in price. But there was another point for consideration,
increase of d• mand which always occasions increase of
price, and incr. as" of price increase of production, without
which there weuld not be that extended trade and augmented
means of movie) ment which were amongst the benefits
they contemplate d from freedom ut trade. (Hear, hear.)
Again, it must he remembered that, even to the extent of
the increase of pt l e, it was not the toreigener only who de-
rived the advents e. To a great extent it was British capi-
tal that was emp...yeel in the teede in timber; and, in saute
instances, the w. eels were the property of Englishmen. The
great demand ter the railways shoved not be foreotten as
an element in inereaaing the price, aim but for the alteration
in the duty he believed that de mond would have caused
the price of timber to rise much higher than it hail done.
So much with regard to timber : now as to belt. The noble
lord had referred to the felling off in the number of looms
working in Spitaltields from the per 1836 to 1845, appear.
ing to forget that until 1845 this trade had not been, as he
said, dabbled with. He admitted that hi a question of
this kind its bearing on the employment of the
people was imminent; but how did it reatiy stand in this
respect ? Take the average of the two years 1846 and 1847.
the only two years of the reduced duty, and compare it with
the average of the ten years Irom 1834 to 1543, as shown in
the returns before the house the imports of raw silk on
the ge of the ten years was 3,742,000 lbs.; the two
years, 4,265,000 the : increase. 513,000 lbs. In thrown silk
the increase was 106,000 lbs. Of silk goods imported on the
average of the ten years the amount sae 209,000 lbs.; on that
on the two years, 408,000 lbs. The experts in value,
751,0001. on the average of the ten years, and 907,0001. on
the average of toe two. True we had imported 200,000
more of foreign goods ; but we hal also im-
ported 623,000 more of raw materials, (Hear, hear.)
Now, from 1842 to 1814, '2,000,0001. of customs duties
were repealed ; and in 1844, a. compared with 1841,
the whole amount of these duties, and 76,000/. to boot, had
been recovered; so that in 1844 we had actually, by the re-
vival of trade, laid by its action upon the revenue in all its
branches, remove red the whole of the income tax. (Hear,
hear.) The revenue of 1846, one year after the reductions
of 1845, without the income tax, only fell short et the re-
venue of 1811 by the small sum of 363,090/. There.
fore, when the hon. member (dr. Disraeli) talked
of there reductions cutting off 7,000,0001. from the income
of the country, he would be nearer the mark if he said they
had added that amount. (Hear, hear.) But, comparing
the custom' end the excise, even of the disastrous year of
1847, with what they were in 1841, before those changes
took place, he totted that out of the 7,600,0001. of repealed
taxation, ,e,100,004. had been replaced. or somewhat more
than the whole amount of the income tax. (Hear, hear.)
And yet that t•ok place in the year of the double famine of
corn and cotton, with which the hon. gentleman made out
his argument, one attecting the first article of the people's
subeirtenie, and the other their employment. Even in
that year, with the springs of industry Waken, he did
not fear the expression now, our customs and excise
paid 6,500,0001. more than in 1811, be'ore these changes
were made or these " false principles " heard of. 'the hon
gentleman'. argument respecting cotton was fallacious, for
at he removed cotton yarn there hail been an increase upon
1847 as compered with 1846 of no lees than 1.69 e 0001. The
hon. gentle:mallet reasons when connected with Hie vote he
intended to give, ateounted simply to this, " „lye up free
trade, and I will give you the income re to free
trade and I will re use it." Such an opinion upon a vital
national question was unworthy of an eminent legislator, for
it led to the v. ry uppoete courtesan to which the hon.
gentleman iteteneled it should. If free trade had broken
the springs of industry, and impoverished the Laecestiire
weaver, and cut oft 8,000,0001. from the revenue,
surely it. was all the more necessary to vote for an
income tax to support the public credit? (Hear, hear.)
lie hoped when tee hon. gentleman next explained his vote,
he would do so upon reasons which did not lead to die
metrically the opposite conclusion. Then, as to the proposi-
tion of the hon. member for Montrose, which was in direct
collision with that of the government. He said he would
vote for the income tax for one year, and in the course of
that year devise a t eduction so extensive as at the end of it
to enable the government to do without that tax.
But in order to fulfil his promise he should elect
reductions within the next ten months of from eight to ten
millions. He (Mr. Gladstone) telt convinced that a great
country like thie ought periodicaty to have a thorough and
searching revision of its taxation. (Cheers.) It was now
more than tiocen years since there had been such a
revision, and sming teat the tide had again set in
against the public, and that there had been so
formidable an increase upon the army, navy, and
ordnance, as of nearly 7,000,0001. since 1835; of 4,500,0001.
since 1544, and of 1,08,0001. since 1846, he did think that
n prima facie cam was establisind for a searching inquiry,
and that by a full examination of the details a considerable
economy mightbe effected. ileconfemed himself disappointed
with a part of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's speech. He
did not appear to him to be sanguine enough as to what
might be expected from investigating various branches of the
public expenditure, and could not go the length of saying
with him that the cousolidated fund charges, the ball pay
list, or the charges for collecting the public revenue, might
not be revised with advantage. They had nearly 4,000,0001.
deficiency to provide for in 1849, and he was ereally roraid
they might have a new Kafir war, and also that that
mysterious vote called " navy exerts " might reappear.
To this four or five millions of deficiency the hon. member
fur Montrose prep '.ed to add five millions more, by repeal-
ing the income tax. (Hear, hear.) Was it consistent with
ordinary prudence to take such a course, in the face of un-
foreseen contingencies ? Nothing could compensate fur a
proceeding which touched the public credit; and though the
hon. gentlemen supporting the amendment might nut intend
it, the adoption of that amendment would inflict a serious
blow on the public confidence. (Cheers, and " No, no.")
The effect on the funds tam meow would show that at once.
He felt concerned and surprised at having to address this
argument to gentlemen on his own side of the house, who
had generally shown themselves anxious to support the
public credit. (Hear, hear.) In reference to our colo-
nies, he was convinced flirt large reductions must be made
in the cost of their government, and where it was possible
the colonists must be made more responsible fir the defence
of the empire at large, thougit that could only be done by
giving them more power in the management of their own
&Marv. (Hear.) The old European syetem of colonisation,
which rested on a monopoly of markets, had been entirely
abandoned; but we had not yet arrived at the adoption of
the principle he had last named. (Hear.) He doomed the
committee for the attention with which he had been heard,
and expressed his belief that the votes would not be given
out of any desire to embarrass government. The tax which
government asked for was not necessary for the expendeure
of the year only, but was applicable to a deficit of two years.
Everything had been thrown over, except what was
absolutely neceesery, even the proposed liquida-
tion of the loan of last year. Nothing was pro-
Need to be expended but what was absolutely necessary.
Let the house assist this great nation to stand firm is the
midst of the convulsions which shook European society, con-
vine: d that, if they net a good example, the people would
stand firm, mid our institutions would remain a blessing and
a benefit to posterity, whatever changes might disturb other
nations. (Cheers).
Mr. M`GREGOR moved the adjournment of the debate,
amidst loud cries of divide," and much confusion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had
hoped they shoule come to a division, but if many gentlemen
wished to steak, he would not resist the adjournment.
Mr. COBDEN said they had been in enmmitee nearly
eight hours, without one hour being occupied by the ques-
tion before them,—namely, whether the inc me tax should be
renewed for one or three year.. Ile should certainly o
iah
to have an opportunity of expressing his sentiments, (Cries
of " Go on.")
Dr. BOWICING was understood to support the adjourn-
ment.
After a scene of considerable confusion,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it ap-
peared to be the feeling of the house that the house should
resume, and go on othin on Monday night.
The debate was then adjourned till Monday.
The house adjourned at 20 minutes alter 1 o'clock.

ELECTION CaIIMITTEES.—YESTERDAY.
lIARwICIi. —This committee re-assembled with
the exception of Mr. Beckett, on account of whose illness
the committee adjourned mail Monday.
BEWDLEY.—Mr. Alexander occupied the attention
of the committee the whole of the day in replying on behalf
of the sitting member, announcing his intention to call wit-
ncsies to rebut the charges which the other side had at-
tempted to establish, and to prove that Sir Thomas Win-
nington, the defeated candidate, and his agents, '
had been guilty of bribery. At the close of
the learned g. ntletnan's wl!ress the room was
cleared, and the committee having consulted toge-
thee for a short while, strangers were readmitted,
when the Chairman announced that Di:. Ireland was not
duly elected fo. the borough of Brwdley. That it was proved
to the committee that Edward Price was bribed in the sum
of 151. by James B.soka an agent of the said Mr. Ireland ;
but it was not proved that the set of bribery was c-mmi'ted
with the knowledge or consent of the said Mr. Ireland. That
the said Mr. Ireland, by his agents, was guilty of treating
the electors for the purpose of corruptly influencing them.—
The ease against Sir Thomas Winnington was adjourned till
this day.
LTNCOLN.—Mr. James having
.replied on behalf of
the sitting member, the commitlee, in a special report (for
which see parliamentary proceedings), decided that Charles
Seely, Esq., had not been duly elected.

COMMISSIONS BY THE LORD LIERTENANT.—R.
Reynard. Esq. to be Captain, vice Locke ; Cf. Holmes. gent.
to be Lieutenant, vice Smith, in Est York Militia; W. St.
Leger. gent., to be Ensign in 2nd Regt. of West York Mili-
tia ; W. Alcock, gent., to be Cornet, vice Wilson, in York-
shire Ramer Regt. of West Riding Yeomanry Cavalry.