The Express.
London, England, 1853-08-06 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, AUGUST 6. 11381:

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS.—FRIDAY, Avousr 5.
The LOAD CMANORLLOIL took his seat at ti ,•cluck
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
ACCINATIUN.— by the Duke of ARGYLL, from Glu•
Row, praying that vaccination might he made cam' iikory.
Cussuisoittort of Wuniotax BILL—By L ird
NAI RD, trout Manchester and other places, in favour of
gbis bill.
COMIIINAIION OF WORKMEN BILL.
Lo►d KI N NAIRD moved the second reading of this Fill,
in favour of a ii,eh numerous petitions had been presented
heat the vinskinit elassur
The LORD CHANCELLOR suggoited the withdrawal
OW bill.
Lord KINNAIRD aosseated.

sot sow. wad which was new was not bad. But as far as
Os bin mat it was an improvement on the present system.
He wee set ping to say ono word against the 'entente of
mutilation passed by the government and the House el
Commons on the Court of Directors, nor was he going
say a word to delay the mention of bat sentence. (Hest, .
hear.) But he thought it might be executed in a manner
more merciful and more advantageosa Is the country ; k-
eener. whilst securing the excision of half of that body, no
Y. curity was taken that the right limb should be cut übr -
(laughter)—and nothing was more probable than that
at the end of the operation they would find
a mere trunk, with legs, arms, head, and heart
cutoff, and the very want part only Of the body preserved.
His proposition was that the revenue and judicial depart-
ments of each presidency should be represented. This would
Rive right directors. He then proposed that the Madras
and Bombay army should be represented by one dirietor
each, and the Bengal army by two, which would give four
- Then F " " -

NB withelnie to directors for the army. . hewould have—too geutle-
09V ERNIIENT OF INDIA BILL. I men belonging to the political parties, who should be well
Earl GRANVILLE, in rising to move the seeond road- acquainted with the habits and customs of the native
courts. Ile thought it would be desirable also to have two
log of this bill, and that he laboured under difficulties of I
gentlemen unconuected with the government to represent
assembly
if,,,dazirniittgionamos, seepringitstlisestat het
zwapenoasaddnesasing n
weau
,the agricultural and commercial classes of Bombay and
Calcutta. This would give &lateen directors, which would
informed on the subject be wag about to introduce se my
that could he retied in the United Kingdom. They bad he large enough for all useful purpose. By adopting this
plan, and naming the persons who were to be the new
amongst them hone lords who hod been Presidents of the
directors in the bill itself, they would secure good appoint-
Board of COD.TOI. Governors-General, end others who had
meats in the first instance, and jobbery would be alines! eo-
lith-I high military eppointmeras in India, with glory to
tirely, it not wholly, prevented. (Hear, hear.) His wish
Iheraselves aril advantage to thin country. Besides,
Me subject had already been meet elaborate) dis-
was to give the Governor-General of India • coancil, in
Meieet. If they looked to the record of die
whom he could confide, of able, respectable, and respon.
p eeJiaga De y would find that one out of eel hsible advisers. (Hear.) Instead of doing that they had to
roc
formed the Court of Directors that it would be worse
fee discussions het been on the affairs of India; and one
noble lord, who tail been Presieent of the Board of Con- than before, and the President of the Board of Control
tea and alio Governor-General of India, had addressed the would be compelled to go elsewhere fur advice, which was
house al less than sixteen limn on the subject. (Laughter.) • thing which he did not much tare fur. Another
Another noble lord no the cress benches, who although not , point on which he felt great anxiety was, that the govern-
adJionsiag the house quite so often had shown great in- meat of loin should be conducted in the name of the
durtry and in wareh, had on two different occasions made crown. (Hear, hoar) Ile felt an intuitive cow/je-
erer- clew, ,one of which directly contradicted the other. tion that they could do nothing which would more ,
(Dowineed 1 mohiert Ile would therefore proceed to state tend to strengthen the government of India, give
She prineip.O provisions of this hill, with the consciousness confidence to the cativo princes, and improve the
that they hid already been fully discussed by their lord- tone both of the civil and military services, than
ships, not only as to the predominating principle but the to have the government conducted in the name of the.
details, clause by clause, and should therefore be as cos. crown. There would then be no divided allegiance. This
vies as pos.:Ale in his observations. Ss much indeed had would be more especially grateful to the Indian army, and
Ithe bill been discussed in anticipation, that five weeks be. no body of men deserved better of the state—(hear)—fur it
Ms lie (Lord Granville) bad been addressed as the noble 'meld Rive them the character and dignity of a royal army.
Med who hel charge of the bill, although at that time he The officers should have the rank and position here that
bad ant been rigoested by his noble friend at the head of they had in India. This would be most grateful to the
the government to undertake that duty. pm. army on whew fidelity and devotion they must depend for
Munn to describing the provieioria of the bill, he the preservation of India. lie regretted that the govern-
=lobe peshaps, be permitted to say one or two meet did not avail themselves of the opportunity which the
wellies the suoket of delay. lie bad meutioned is • bill presented of obtaining for themselves an immortal name
illemer debate, thet no motive of parliamentary or personal by laying the ioundatious of permanent empire in India.
Movraimee bad inilmaceil the government in pressing the Bat they were satisfied with doing little things in a
little
bill forward, but merely a seine of public duty, and now be . (Ilear, bear.) They made it by
would add that wtiaterer re oms the government might bit reform. Ile could not imagine how the noble marquis
herr bad for ea early introduction of the bill, told with I (Lenedowne) could endure such bit by bit legislation.
greater force on its present position ; when, it having ! Ohm') Tiiey look
ede on little things r
e.'tithe than on great
Men pawed by large majorities is the Commons, Wings, or else theyid not understaud and ppreciate the
my notion of farther delay must be put entirely oat comparative magnitude and value of the obj
ect
before
of the question. His lordehip Vies proceeded to die- them. (Hear, bear.) The result was, that they had a
en or the provisions of the measure, concluding ai system which, though an improvement on the existing one,
fellows . So fa, 'from this moue," baying been hastily was such as not to satisfy the expectations of any one, was
concocted and draws up, he doubted whether any bill had calculated to give great dissatisfacticn in India, and would
ever been pre red with greater care; the goreininent not work for the general welfare of the people of that
having been fully sensible of the deep responsibility of caner,. (Hear, hear ) Ile was perhaps the only member
dealing with the welfare and happiness of 140 millions of of tee house who had witnessed in parliament three bill.
their fellow..ubjeeta at the other end of the globe. (Hear, for the better administration of India, and it was
)par) At the same time, there were circumstances which led humanly impossible that he could live to see another.
Alm to hope thst our rule in India would he more beneficial He did not think that the government would be anxious to
than it bad hitherto been. The means of communicating with bring in another India bill in a hurry, unless they were
India had of late years been greatly advanced and amide- compelled to do so by the pressure of some great
rated. Whatever might be the case externally, so for as and overwhelming calamity. If there was only a gradual
human fereright could enable any one to todge, peace nee sapping of the institutions of India—if there was only a
secured to the great Indian peninsula. ele had alreadily gradual introduction of inferior government to that which
mentioned the prospect which there was of connecting t heretofore existed, the evil would not conic onin so striking
portions of that great empire together by means of rail- a manner as would lead to the interposition of parliament.
ways ; he bad allied, glanced at the improvements which The oestruction would not be effected by any violence—not
kad been begun i t the ennui of roods, and he might add in a manner that would excite at once the indignation and
*at in a very short time several thousands of miles of tele- disgust of the world, bat by that kind of slow poison which
Near,
communication would be established is India. the natives of India were formerly in the habit of using,
(Hear, hear.) The Eabibition of 1311 had elicited more which did not kill at once, but gradually destroyed the
d to any I b°6l7
information with regard to India than with
(melee country, and the evidence given by Dr. Lloyd before of pain, that he could not live to see the entire reconstrue-
the House of Commons showed that various vegetables, tion of the government of India—that he could not live
ink and fate of India, which woula be extremely useful in to see it founded on a principle which would afford a certain
maniffseturee, had recently become known for the first prospect of happiness to the people of India, and of honour
time, sea were likely to add greatly to the Indian trade. and grandeur to this country. (Cheers.)
He had referred to the progress which education was The Marquis of SALISBURY said the noble earl
akinn. flo believed that concurrently with education called upon them to adopt a bill of a most important tharae-
Christianity was lipreading, though the government very ter. at a time when it was impossible for them to give it
portly guarded itself against the mixing with education fair discussion and consideration, and when two committees
et proselytism. (Hear, hear) He believed that the were actually sitting on the subject without coming to any
spread of Chrii•iaoity would not only promote the decision. (Hear, hear.) When in 1813 the India bill was
spiritual welfare of the inhabitants of India. but would introduced to the House of Lords in the month of July
be found • most powerful engine of material ad- Earl Grey and those noble lords who acted with him de-
vancement. (Hear, hear.) While he thought it nounced the government in no measured terms for intro-
would be hurtful to our rule, hurtful to our power in ducing the bill at so late a period. (Hear, hear.) The
ledis, for the government to mix it-elf up with any attempt language which they used on that occasion would exactly
at proselytism, or to change the rule hitherto observed of - apply to the present case, only with somewhat more fore*
perfect impartiality and rieutriley ; while he did not think and truth, for-instead of the month of July, it was not till
they would be justified in doing anything which might the month of August that the government introduced the
tom! to lessen the tie that connected India with this coun• present bill. For this reason, he would adopt the course
try, he trusted they would find that by this bills mere pursued by his noble friend near him (Lord Malmesbury).beneficial rule would have been extended to that vast empire Lord MONTEAGLE complained of the course which
which had by a singular dispensation of Providence, been their lordships were called upon to take with respect to this
committed to their charge. bill, for he believed this was the first instance within his
The Earl of MALMESBURY said he would not detain memory where parliament had been requested to appoint
dui- lordships at any length, as it was not his intention select committees to inquire into • 'abject ; and yet, before
to oppose the bill or even to make any remarks upon it. the committees could report the evidence or make their re-
He was charged to say the same on the part of his noble commendations to either house, the subject was to be die-
friend (the Earl of Derby), whose absence, he regretted to Owed of in a legislative form. With regard to the bill
say, was necessary on account of illness, but who, if he had itself there were many points which bad o been
been there, would have found himself, like him, bound to slightly touched upon by those who precede him,
my that he could make no enervation on this measure, and it was necessary that he should dwell somewhst
whether of praise or of blame. When the question of the longer upon them. It was difficult, however, to deal
tunnel of the charter was first raised in that house, his with this bill until they had decided which of two
noble friend said he thought the best cour e the government characters it should bear. Ile bad heard it described
sent I take was to propose the continuance of the charter in as the best bill that could possibly be devised
Its present state for two or three years, and to postpone for for India. Those who entertained that opinion eulogised
that session at least any project of reform. It hail not the past conduct of the East India Company in all its vari-
*axed her Majesty's government to follow that reeommen- ous functions, and protested that no better form of govern-
datioo, and if his noble friend had been present he would ment could be devised. On the other hand, ho had heard
have refrained, as he (the Earl of Malmesbury) should do, the bill represented as merely a medium measure, which
from making any remark en the bill before the house. It was intended ultimately to lead to entire change in the
was not, as their lurdahipe might easily imagine, that they former system of goverament. Now which of thew two
did not appreciate the importance of the subject, but they eharacters the bill most partook of he would nut undertake
found fault with her Majesty's ministers for having brought to say, but this he was fully prepared to admit, that if they
forward a subject of that momentous importance at a period wished to secure the future well-being of India there must
of the year when it was impossible it should be discussed in be no abrupt alterations made in toe form of its govern-
the manner that it deserved to be—(hear, hear)—when it meat. If this bill, therefore, was to be viewed in the
wee impossible for any party except the government party, light of a precursor to other schemes and other changes, he
which had advantages not possessed by others, to collect a would not say that it was not a prudent course to take.
slumber of peers in that house. lie would like to After a few other observations the noble lord intimated
know whet etas honourable gentleman at the his intention of proposing some alterations in committee.
ed Mof the of Control was doing before The Duke of ARGYLL would not go into any detail, but
this bill was introduced in the other house. For he wished to draw attention to some popular fallacies
live mouths he was in • state of incubation—(laughter)— on this question. The sense of parliament had been ump-
ired it was not till the 3rd of June that he hatched quivocally a:pressed that the government hail pursued the
the India Bill. Between accepting office and intro- httest sod wisest course in not delaying for another year
*wing the bill he had time to visit India, re- the great question of the government o India. As far as
side there two months, and return to this country, the surface current of opinion went, there appeared to have
(Laughter.) lie could see on excuse for all this delay, been • desire that legislation should have been delayed, and
the link of which was that their lordships were placed in the interest of the government pointed out that as the
• position which was calculated to lower them to the esti- easiest course for them to have pursued. But it was be-
=anon of the country. In the name of those who formed COON they believed that any postponement woold have
the late government, in the name of his noble friend who been injurious, Hoot fatal, to the beat interests of our Indian
we. absent, he declared that they entirely washed their empire, that they determined on legislatiag in tha present
heads of this bill, and left the responsibility of purling it year. He would admit that it was now late in the session,
M the sneakers of her Majesty's government. They con- hut the measure had been frequently dimmed in
.Nerd that in bringing forward the question as they had their lordships' hose*, and they were praetieally w-
hom, the government lied done justice neither to the sub- quainted with it. He believed, whilst on this point,
jam nor to their lordships' house, and they were therefore that the late government had contemplated immediate
unwilling to share the responsibility which the government legislation. It had been said by the noble loot who had
now sought to cast upon parliament. (Hear, hear.) just sat down that hie right hon. friend the President of the
The Earl of ABERDEEN—The noble earl has con- Board of Control had eulogised the Coart of Discolors
*tuned of the manner is which this bill has bees brought whilst bristling forward • measure to alter the constitution
before yonrlordships, and has taken a COOTS. which, 1 con- of that body. The greatest exaggerations had been made
fees, to me is ioexplieable. lie complains of the manner with reference to that board, and whilst it was net the
la which this house is treated by the course that we are duty of his right hon. friend to show that the government
taking. Does he think it consistent or respectful to the of India was without fault, it was right that he ebenld
house to get up and say that he will not state whether he show that ouch maggeratious had been committed. Thlllor-
approves or disapproves of the bill ? (Hear, hear.) Is vernmeat did not altogether defend the conduct of the ilit
that a course which • man in the position of the noble earl India Commay. They admitted that them were poll des
might t expected to take before your lordships ? (lima, theta is its administration, and they therefore
Mar.) Ply lords, it may be a very convenient coarser. some amendments. It was competent, however, roirVesedi
(Cheers) When the noble earl declines to give an opinion to ethaw that the,, had been maggeratims, and it woe
OS such • subject he mast permit me to say that soot neemeary to sweep the whole system away. Thom ha
that is a course which is not quite roomette' to no doubt been great defects in the judicial illepeeMll*.!
'Mr lordship , sad I must add that it is but it lad been said, when nothing elm mad be
sot a mune which I remember to have ever befog. bees boas foe a MIA they made him a judge. That
waited in this house. (Hear, hear.) Now, my lords, a e was an exaggeration, as was proved by the evidence of
io the period of the motion at which this bill semen bete re Mr. Halliday and others. The noble earl opposite had doe
you, 1 must coulees that, long as I have been • mesaroao eribed this se • bit by bit reform. lie, however.
of this house—and I hams been a member of it there If teas comidered it • merit in the scheme that it was not • fon
any aobn lord present—this is a complaint which 1 bate paper constitution for India. That empire had been pine
810‘s f ceased to hear—(hear, hear; ; —and though it 'am, I bit by bit--it eonsiete lof various tribes and provinces-41M
admit, often been mode with great truth and pieties yet on habits and customs of the people differed throughout the
this occasion I reject the noble earl's accusation. Is 7 noble Indian peninsula—it was an empire of bits. The govern.
Mood (Ent Granville) has explained so clearly th . merits meat of India bad grown with the growth of that empire—
of the bill, that it it quite unnecessary for me to In over the it had been gradually developed, and it would have been
Men ground ; but lam anxious to hear tho view aof other the height of madness to have swept the whole instant
noble lords, especially thou) of my noble frith d opposite away, and sot up a new constitution. (Hear, hear.) His
(the Earl of Elleatenough) who has paid so mu ch attention keit, what was meant by a " bit by bit reform." These
to the subject, and to whom your lord kips always listen who applied that designation to the present measure mend
with the greatest attention and satisfaction. (Hear. hear.) that they should have got rid of the doable governments To
I trust that he at least will have no reluctance to give us establish a single government there must be • change of go.
lie opinion on all the principal points re inflected with the vernment or men. Now, the government of India was me
tall, and that he will not follow an example which will, I ensarily wholly separate from the home government, widish
think, be "more honoured in the brawls than in the ob- was, perly speaking, • government of review. Wit`,
OK VW..." (Cheers) to that home government, the elements were
The Eel of ELLENBOR01:011 said he should not be great degree fixed. No one had ventured to propose that a 1
minuted from taking part is the discussion of this very minister should preside over India without the assistance of!
important measure by complakats as to the general conduct • council; and that being so, the whole question of a change
of business in the House of Commons. (Cheep from in the government fell to the ground. So long as they had
Ministers.) Ile confessed that under ordinary circum- a minister not Reline singly, but under the advice of a
stances tie should have thought it not respectful to the council, they must have a certain amount of divided re-
house,
or conducive to the public advantage, that • bill of speusibility. If they had a single minister responsigle for
this very great importance sh otli be proposed for the all that was done in India, there would then be a change
mean,: readier on the Oith of August; but ne was boned to 1 of government; but no one bad made such a proposition.
say:that the eintimatastett under which this bill was nought They could not, therefore, get rid of that of which they
before the hone were of a somewhat peculiar character. now complained, and they were advocating that which
He had frequently addressed himself to the subject of India. there was no hope of their obtaining. If it
la point ul fact, they had this anion taken a leaf, not out was not a change in substance, which the oppo
of the new, but ouiut the old book of the House el Com- , newts of a double government *ought, it was •
moss, by discussing the question on the presentation of ' change in name ; and the noble earl (Ellenborough) opposite
petitions. In the circumstances under which the bill came I wished to have a change in name. The time might be
before them, he did not think his noble friend (Olelows- ' coming when it might be desirable for h
her Mmerely•
'
bury) was justified in throwing off all reaponsinlity— government to assume the government of India in its owa
(hear, hear)—for he had many opportunities in which he same. He mold not conceive
what the noble bedew In
might have expressed any opinione which be entertained the bill, which could " sap the foundatoin,
nada to him to of our rod
is
alle
on the subject. (Hear, hear.) This bill, in fact, Came empire." On the contrary, it appeared
before them with more varied information in possession of that was useful in the present system, while it did not fail
Muth for Mips than be believed they ever possessed in re- to improve where improvement was necessary..
west to .ny other treat bill ofa similar nature. (Hew.) Lord ASHBURTON could not agree with those who
He was not going to oppose the second reading, although it looked upon this measure as only a stop towards • single
MSS sot mak seamier, as he hiriatif shluld have iiitrodueed. government fur India. Ile considered that the double
H. thought the system it established waa partly bad and system of government was absolutely necessary to the pre.
partly good. The greater part of that which was bad was servation of the liberties of the natthet of India ihe would