The Express.
London, England, 1848-01-28 00:00:00

2

•
seder better movies to hie follow ementrymon then I
he km given hitherto. (Applawce.) He remembered
many mob prodlctiona—he had heard many within the wens
of the Hones of Commons. Ho reasombored Kr. Hadeon—
Oughter)—the member for Sunderland, espial! in 1848
Cut it wee hie ann ogee. that if rent were entirely abo-
lished the tumors of land would that
tumble to cultivate
the sell under the now w, and that the land must be
*Deadened althe• end left to waste, bemuse a »mune-
tethsdpries said
not be obtained for the produce,.
The hoe. gentleman was proceeding when our express left.

•
FREE TRADE BANQUET AT MA
Dttax.....—
' Since the foregoing appeared in the Daily Nemo, we have
received, by express, he further proceedings and the commits-
Mon of the meeting.
Mr. Gipson continued as follows:
I lam glad Mr: Hudson had proved a worse judge upon
these matters than he has upon the conduct of railways.
(Applause.) In the railway world no doubt he has shown
himseH a shrewd and able AM ; but as a prophet I venture
to hack the very worst prophet the Anti-Corn-law League
ever produced whist the honourable member for Sunder-
land. The worst case they say that can be brought against
us is the West India case. There they tall us we have
brought ruin and despair open a great portion of our fellow
countrymen. I have heard with deep sympathy, and every
Englishman must hear with regret, that any portion of our
fellow-countrymen, in any part of the earth's surface is
suffering deep distress; but, I must say, it is no novelty to
be told of the distress of the West India intermit. It is
not the first time that we have heard the threat made
that the West Indian estates are not worth cultivating, and
must be abandoned, and I doubt very much if we
were to go carefully tluough the parliamentary documents
and the memorials that have been addressed to the public
office, whether you would not find in them statemeuta of
distress quite as alarming as those which have been recently
made by the West( India body. I denot deny the distress,
but what I protest against 3 the remedy that is asked.
We are asked to give to the West India body • protecting
duty of 10s. per ort.upon sugar-101.iper too upon all the co-
lonial sugar—upon all the coloring sure imported into this
country, is the modest request which is made to the repre-
sentatives of the people. Ten pounds per ton upon all the
colonial sugar would amount to upwards of two million of
taxes, to be imposed upon the people of this country ; not
for the purposes of the state ; not to be paid into the
coffers of the exchequer; but to be transferred from the
great body of the „consuming classes of England to the pro-
prietary body of colonial lands. Now, I have no doubt it
is very easy for persons to say that granting this protection
to the West India body will make very little addition to tbe
price of sugar; will not be felt by the consumer, and will
prevent the rum of many respectable
_ families, and restore to
prosperity, perhaps,. many West Indian mercantile houses.
If I were eked to give my own property, I might say "Yaw
well, I have no objection te grant you from your own final
the amount which you ask, and I only hope that it may re-
lieve you from your distress;" but that is not the position of
a member of pat liament he is not dealing with his owa
property. ( Applause.) He is trustee fur the people, and he
Is bound to act upon the strict principle of justice betwixt all
classes of the people. And what is, therefore, the position
of a member of parliament when a request iS Mae be
him fur a ten shilling dill, rential duty up en colonial agar.
He says to himself, I am asked to transfer a portion
of the earnings of all the factory operatives aud the agri-
cultural labourers to a body of men upon the ground that they
are in distress and cannot make the business in whish they
are engaged profitable. (Hear, hear.) But an honourable
member must ask himself this question, Is there a more ob•I
vious and clear title—one more inalienable, or less capable of
being shaken—than that which the labouring man has to the
earnings which he has received as the reward of hie industry ?
Can there be a higher title to property than the title which the
labouring man has established fur the wages given him for
his labour ? Well, then, what is the nature of this higher title
which we are told exists on the part of the West India pro-
prietors to a portion of those wages; how can he make out a
higher or a better title to get a portion of those wages than
the labouring man who has received them directly for his
industry? (Hear, hear, and applause.) I cannot reconcile it
to my notions of justice that it can be shown by any previous
legislation of this country, that it an be shown by any pre-
scriptive right, by any arguments which I have ever heard,
any colonial proprietor has any better claim to this man's
wages than the man has himself. (" Hear, hear," mad
Cheers.) And until a better title can be shown, thaa the
labouring man himself can show to the wages ho has re-
oeived from his employer, I must refuse, merely at the re-
quest of proprietors, and upon the plea of distress, I must
refuse in my capacity as a trustee, to transfer any portion
of these earnings to the proprietors of the soil. (Hear, and
loud cheers.) When the sugar duties bill of 1846 passed
through parliament, all the facts were before the legislature
which are now bef .re them. (Hear, hear.) Every thing
was taken into consideration, and, after a mature discussion
of the government sugar duties were placed upon a perma-
nent footing. (Hear, and applause.) The measure of 1846
has conferred greet benefits neon the country, (hear,
hear)—it has done as thej protectionists predicted it would
do, it has added materially to the revenue of the state, and
it has increased the quantity of sugar to the consumer.
(Hear, hear, and applause.) I will take the liberty of read-
ing to you the effect which it has had upon the revenue of
the State, and also the addition it has made in the quantity
of sugar consumed by the people. (Applause.), For the
twelve months ending August, 1845, the year prevous to the
present bill being passed, for the twelve months, I say,
ending August, 1845, the revenue from sugar amounted to
3,339,1821.; for the twelve months ending August, 1847,
being the first year of our sugar bill, the free trade sugar
bill, the revenue from sugar amounted to 4,652,4921., show.
lag an increase of 1,313,e00/.—(hear, hear) ;—that was the
sum gained to the revenue, accompanied, as I said before,
with less taxation to the consumer, and an increased quan-
tity of sugar at a lower price brought within the reach of all
classes of her Majesty's subjects. (Applause.) lam there-
fore prepared to stand by the bill of 1846—(loud cheers)—
I think it is a good measure—(hear, hear)—l think
it has answered the purposes
.for which it was introduced
—(hear)—l think it was a just measure, I think it was
a well-considered measure, and I think the country will
never regret that it was passed into a law. (Cheers.) And
after all has nothing been ever done for the West
India body? (Hear, hear.) Do we forget that when
slavery was abolished the people of England paid them in
compensation the sum of 17,000,0001. out of 20,000,0001.
(Beer, hear.) The West India body received, I believe,
17,000,0001. out of tho whole sum, which amounts to four
per cent, or an annual call on the taxation of this country
of something like 680,000/. a year. (Hear, hear.) You
are now paying out of the taxation of this country for the
emancipation of slaves no less a sum than 680,0001. per
annum to the West India body. (Hear, hear ) Is that
nothing? But we are told that they did not get 17,000,0001.,
that the West India proprietors were in debt, that their
estates were mortgaged, and the brokers and merchants
had got the money. But you did not pay It the less for
that. (Cheers.) The people of this country had paid it,
and they can have nothing whatever to do with any pre-
vious arrangement which, whether wise or unwise, might
have existed between the colonial proprietors and their
brokers and merchants. (" Hear, hear," and cheers.) The
money was paid, and, as l always understood, it closed the
account, and it can no more be re•opened. (Hear) The
question of slavery is settled, and let it be remembered
that the abolition of slavery was not a law merely applying
to the proprietors of slaves in the West Indies, it was ap-
plied to all classes of her Majesty's subjects. (" Hear, hear,'
and cheers.) And, at the present moment, I have no doubt
it is be operation in our colonies ; say iii the Cape of Good
Hope, say in Australia, and in many other of the British
dominions iu the different portions of the world. I doubt
not that, if proprietors could purchase slaves, they would
fancy for a time they could realise an income from property
which now yields them nothing. I was myself in fact told
by a gentleman who lately purchased property at the Cape
of Good Hope, " why," he " you seem to talk as if
nobody was deprived of advantages by the abolition of
alavery except the owners of estates in the West Indies ; if
I could purchase slaves I doubt not that I could raise a
quantity of surplus produce which I could send to market,
and by it obtain for myself an income, whereas now, by the
great scarcity of labour, and the difficulty of finding per-
sons to till the land, I can only raise sufficient for my own
consumption." (Hear, hear.) So that these are not the
only parties that can laim an advantage, if there can be
any possible advantage, present or remote, to the country,
in the permission of Clod's creatures, of human beings like
ourselves, to be sold in the slave market. (Hear, hear.) I
hope to see slavery abolished in every part of the earth.
(Cheers.) And I believe that leaving free labour to compete
without protection openly in this market, with slave labour,
I believe the day will come when it can be proved that free
labour is more profitable than slave labour, and that men's
interest would induce them to abandon for ever the horrible
traffic in human flesh. (Loud cheer) We has had 00
many proofs lately from successful operations in other
countries, as well as in England, of the effect of reducing
duties, and giving freer scope to industry and trade, that 1
will not dwell longer at present on the subject. But there
is one remarkable case of it in connexion with the trade of
England, to which I cannot help calling a momentary at-
tention, I allude to the trade with France. (Hear, hear.)
Now, there is no trade, it may be small In amount absolutely,
but there is no trade that has relatively shown a more rapid
increase. (Hear, hear.) The amount of our exports, the
declared value of our exports to France, has amounted within
a very short period to something like 3,000,0001., and now the
amount, I believe, is about two millions and a half. (Hear,
bear.) In 1815 they amounted to about 300,0001., and since
that time they have increased to, as I said before, three mil-
lions; and, at the present moment, to something like
2,700,0001. (Hear, hear.) But the increase, be it remarked,
has taken place, the greater portion of it, during a compara-
tively merit period of time. (Hear, hear.) And it has taken
place nearly in censequence, or perhaps almost entirely in
soneequence of relaxations on our part without any reciprocity
en the part of the French. (Hear, hear.) I mention this,
bemuse it is a strong argument against what is caed the re-
eiproeity system— (hear, hear) ;—though you have increased
materially your trade with France by acting for yourselves in
reducing the duties on your imports, even though France has
reciprocated, and materially reduced duties on the imports
country. (Beer, hear, and applause.) But I men-
.s trade with France also to show you that the exports
ACO amount to as much, after all, as the exports to the
Indies—(Hear, bear)—so that these dreadful French-
we are taught to regard—(Hear, hoar, and apprl:gtil—
t them dreadful Frenchmen we are taught to as
natural enemies, are as good customers to us as our pro-
d and much cherished West India proprietors.
hear.) The French task exports to the
of 2,700,0001. and the West Indian proprietors
J the amount of 2,300,0001. (Beer.) And more
that, the West India interest want you to give them
A protecting duty ea their sugars equal in amount to the
value of all your exports you send to the Wait Indies. (Hear,
I am not overstating these things. (Hear. hear, and
I em mentioning merely those facts which perils-

smug demiessate plea Deem ea. (111hema.) New, I ask
you wlesehar we sea redleetwa the ming Yews of WM-
areelel sematiolea err faesenserma with Awn%
it
at
ths lalhilkliarblidlellitZliNt Iwo set !pear et friend-
ship awl of iaterest—Okear, heer)—des width le would be
more Albeit to bras
*trek= if theta& Wiesen was only
what it need to he la 1816, senestiting
_like 30111,101. • yeu.
(Anhwei.) I this& my sualissa friend Colossi Theupsse
williell yea that the two weeterffas, with • trade ef Ws me
subsiedng between them, woe It
in a ilghtheg paid=
than they vo
ted he if there awn so anal/ a- Os& that
which amedated topla.ll/111111. • peer- (Applainee.) 1
for one, ladies and lam hem mgp istraissaa,
though I dare say elametlele may Mee Otos mob Is do
wrld. I burn Is Irma lap ealreWalle%llllll glees It waled-
tallly, sad fa Yds goblis amembly, that the meet powered
of all hums sonsiss to pnvent war and to amintaie pew
is the extemien et essamerelal ustercoune. (Lead cheers.)
We are tail, semi g this growing trade, not-
withstanding this fastfood intercourse with, France, we
are told—we are told la the south—and recollect that
letter came from lemereldre—(hear, hear)—from a great
man in this district—(a laugh)—we were told in the south
that we were frightened out of our propriety by the letters
from the north to the effect that we might expeotan invasion
from the French people—(loud laughter)—that the French
people were actuated by a feeling that I won't mention to-
wards the natives of this country, and that we were lulling
ourselves into a false security if we would not prepare ourselves
with an effective force to repeal this meditated invesion. (Hear,
hear, and laughter). Well, I don't meanto say,—for I should
not be honest if I did say it,—and It has always been my
habit et Blanchester, and always will be, candidly and fairly
to state my opinions. (Hear, hear.) I don't say that you can
dispense with the use of armaments. (Hear, hear. I don't
say, and I don't believe, that my excellent friend, Mr. Cobden,
has ever said that you are to abolish all your military and
naval preparations. (Hear, hear.) There are those who
would, but I don't believe my honourable friend Mr.
Cobden has proposed that. (Hear, hear.) Well, now, all
that we have to do with the question now is this. We are
agreed, at least I believe we are, the bulk of mankind think it
would be a very great blessing, that it would be the greatest
improvement that the world ever saw, and the greatest aid to
the progress of civilisation, of virtue, and of every good feel-
ing, if by international communication armaments could ho
abolished. (Hear, hear, and applause.) We are all agreed
upon that. (Hear, hear.) No man, no sensible man, at
lust, who had not an interest in the thing—(bur, hear,
and a laugh)—could be. (Hear, hear.) But we are not—
I honestly state my opinion I may be wrong, but I
honestly state my opinion that we are not in • posi-
tion to dispense 'with the means of defence—(hoar, hear).
We have averaged something like 16,000,0001. • year, Sinai
1816, for the, maintenance of defences, and, therefore
I believe we always have had adequate means f
defence. (Hear, hear.) And all 1 contend is this,
that ire,far as 1 am capable of judging no case has been made
out to show: that there, is yawn to apprehend this sudden
invasion of: the French. (Hear.) I remember it as a very
old story this invasion. (Hear.) I remember Mr. Thomas
Attwood, then one of the members for Birmingham, stood on
the floor of the House of Commons, and in a speech of four
hours' duration made what some parties considered a very
good invasion speech, and proved to their satisfaction at
least, that the Russians might be expected to make their
appearance at London Bridge some film morning with-
out the slightest notice, or any person being aware in the
slightest degree of their intention to come. (Hear, bear,
sal laughter.) But Russia we now leave alone—it is
Pomo we have to fear. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The
loath budget shows reduuctioos on the part of the Go-
vernment for the coming year. (Hear, lieu.) I don't
fa that budget see any reason for fearing (hear,
hear)—I don't see any reason for fearing that France is
making preparations to invade England. (Loud Cheery.)
I have told now broadly, and I tell it now conscientiously,
—I tell it to yon sincerely,e--that I have no sympathy
whatever with what is called the military spirit. (Hear,
beer.) But I will not commit myself in this assembly
ar in any other place to any particular vote or set in
reference to this question. I know not what Government
means to propose. lam not in their tweets, and there-
fore I cannot clinks. them. They may have the urns
opinions as I have in reference to: this invasion, and
the folly of the panic. (Laughter and continued cheers.)
But all I say is this—waitl wait! before rou pronounce
an opinion upon them, at least, wait until you hear
what they purpose. (Hear, hear.) Pronounce an opinion
upon the celebrated missive of Lancashire ; pronounce
an opinion upon that of Mr. Pigon, or upon the Duke's
letter ; all then are before the public ; but pro-
nounce no opinion upon the policy of Government, when
yet are not i n posseseton of it. (Hear, heir.) I will not
trespass too long upon your attention, because I should be
sorry to interpose ,lietwein you and many of those distin-
guished speakers whom you will have the pleasure of hear-
ing after myself; bat there is one question before I sit
down that I feel bound to allude to. I mean the ques-
tion of the removal of the Jewish disabilities. (Hear,
hear, and applause.) We shall carry the bill for the
removal of those disabilities with ease through the House of
Commons--(hear;—but how it will fare in the House of
Lords, it is not in my power to state. The opinion of the
people I should think would influence that body, if that
opinion can be made to reach them, or is at all likely to
reach them. My own opinion upon this question is cleat
and decided ; let us have no declaration of religious belief
from any man as the (cedilla' of his discharging cavil fuoc-
ties.. (Applause.) I place it upon the broad frultal prin-
ciple, that every man, if elected, is entitled to sit in the
House of Commons without any reference I. his religious
opinions. (Hear, hear.) His belief in what may be neces-
sary to the salvation of the soul in another world, I do not
think it requisite to inquire into in order that he may be
entitled to legislate on men's civil rights in this world.
(Applause.) If we can find a Solomon among the Jews,
why should we not have his services in Parliament?
(Hear, hear, and loud applause.) Let the Jews in, we
shan't be the less Christians! And after all, what is the
meaning of the word " Christian ?" because it is a perplex-
ing-thing. I want to know what the test of Christianity Is?
I address this argument not-t° gentlemen taking the broad
principle, but to those who stickle for having a
Christian legislature. Now, what is a Christian legis-
lature ? Where must I go for a definition of Chris-
tianity? You cannot deny the man the title of Christian
who, at the table of the House of Commons, is satisfied to
call himself a Christian, and is willing to take the oath.
The German school of ratioealista call themselves Christians,
although they openly profess, and are taught, to disbelieve
11 the divine mission of Christ—in the miracles and pro-
phecies of the Old Testament, and in the miracles of the
New. Inasmuch as they believe in the excellency of the
moral code taught by Christ, they are satisfied in their own
conscience and call themselves Christians; and you cannot
refuse one of these men. Well, then, what becomes of your
test? Why, the test vanishes. Your Christian's test
amounts to nothing. It cannot keep out any man who
thanks himself entitled to call himself a obristian. I believe
that in keeping out the Jews, you are keeping out those who
in point of feet, believe a much larger portion of the Scriptures
than many of those whom you let in, and who call them-
selves Christians. Ido not address this argument as bay-
ing any weight with those who adopt the general and sound
principle that there should be no tests, but I only address it
to the portion of the legislature who think they have secured
something by this obligation to say at the table of the
house that you are a christian. I think it would be far
more in accordance with that love and forbearance which
are characteristic of true religion, if we were not to persist
in this persecution of a portion of our fellow-countrymen
because they differ from us in religion, but were to allow '
them freely to enjoy all the civil distinctions and advanta-
ges which the state places within their reach. (Applause.)
I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for the kindness with
which you have heard me. I feel that I may have occu-
pied your time too long. (" No, no.") I hope, if I have
said any more upon any one subject than I ought to have
said, or have not expressed myself with sufficient clear-
ness, I may have your indulgence. I will sit down with
repeating to you Again that I hope to be able to assist in
Parliament in the abolition of those monopolies which are
alluded to in the toast, in conjunction with the other flee
trade members included in it ; and when a struggle arises
upon the geese principles of either civil, commercial, or
religious freedom, I trust you will not find me wanting.
(Loud applause.)
The meeting was subsequent)] addressed by J. Kershaw,
Esq., M.P. ; Richard Cobden, Req. M.P. ; Colonel Thomp-
son, M.P.; G. Thompson, M.P. ; J. 'Bright, Esq., M.P.; and
E. Ashworth, Esq.. The speeches delivered will be given
in subsequent Winans.

ANCIENT REMAINS YOUND.—Some very interest-
ing Roman remains were on Wednesday discovered in exca-
vating for the foundation of the new Coal Exchange. They
consist of a large floor of temlated pavement, and the
remains:of a hypocaust, the hollow floor of which is astonish-
ingly perfect. The warm air chamber is 20 inches high and
consists of a series of pillars or columns composed of 14 tiles
84 inches square, 14 inch thick, and 1 foot 5 inches apart,
paved and covered with large til s 1 foot 11 by 12 inches and
2 inches thick. These remains, which occupy a considerable
area, are about 13 feet below the pavement of Thames•

street.
DESTRUCTIVE FIRE IN TAE POULTRY. Yester-
day • fire broke out at No. 29, Poultry, adjoining St. Mil-
dred's church, in the occupation of Messrs. Prettyman and
Rizon, stationers, and numerous other parties. The flames
were first discovered by Mr. Halsham, a solicitor, living on
the third floor. He raised an immediate alarm, and the
several inmates enameled in making their escape in safety;
but Mr. O'Hara, who lodged on the second floor, in return-
ing to save some of hie property, was burned about the face,
and • female nt was also much injured. It appears that,
upon her attempting to descend the stain the second time,
flames were mounting the place with such violence as to cut
off the regular means of escape. Finding there was no way of
escaping V. horrible death without • desperate effort, Mr.
O'Hara and the servant wrapped themselves to a
blanket, and, by rolling down stairs, they esceped,
but not without being very much bruised. The engines
from the church of St. Mildred, the brigade from Watling.
street, Jeffrey-square, Whites:nee-street, and numerous
other stations, arrived in rapid succession, as well as the
West of England engine from the Waterloo-road. Plenty
of water being at hand, the engines were celled into opera-
tion ; but the flames in the meantime bad extended to sundry
other portions of the building, and great fears were enter-
tained for the safety of the church. In fact, the sacred edi-
fice appeared doomed to deetructien, for the flame. almost
surrounded the belfry for the space of • quarter of an hour.
The firemen, under the direction of their superior officers,
worked moat vigorously, but, notwithstanding, they WWI
unable to get the mastery over the Ramat until two o'clock,
and not until property of considerable value was reduced to
'shed. The origin of the fire is not known, but the general
opinion is, that it commenced is a claret en the second floor,
frem a spark falling from a lighted candle amongst some
papers. Means. Prettyman and Rion were Insured in the
Royal Exchange Firs-office.

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