The Express.
London, England, 1849-07-24 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS COSTS TAXATION BILL.

This bill was Had a eccoad. To be committed to-morrow
at 12 o'clock.

STATE OF IRELAND.

Mr. HORSHAM, in bringing forward the motion of
which be had given notice, observed that the session was
now about to terminate, and oa looking back at the topics
which had engrossed their attention for the last six
months, the question arose to every one what bad they done
for Ireland? It had been well said that the affairs of Ire-
land had been one protracted debate. The course had been
discussion—what had been the result? Legislation had been
active—what had it produced ? We found Ireland prostrate
in February ; had they raised her is July ? Having adverted
at sere length to the state of Ireland, he went on to observe
that he made no apology for once more bringing before
the house this picture of ruin and misery ; he had done it
heft re, he ventured to do it again, unpalatable as he knew it
was to many in the house ; but as they could sot escape from
the feet, so neither did he wish to weeps from that which
parliament had hitherto evaded, viz., the investigation of the
Loose . If they could epee in the perception of the case he
did net despair, even in the eleventh hour, of coming to an
arrangement. He emphatically denied that the famine had
bees the cause of ene-tenth part of the mirery, The famine
was no more the cause of the breaking down of
the poor laws thin the cream was the cause of
the sinking of the leaky ship. Bad legislation was the cause
elan. The poor law was • bad poor law from the first, and
then they applied it to parpoae., and made it bear a burden
which the poor law was never meant to carry. la 1837 they
determined to establish a poor law in Ireland. He would
sat stop to inquire whether Ireland celled for that poor law.
Suffice it to say that the subject was referred to numerous'
parli imentary committers and commissions, and every one
decided against it. The last commission, over which the
Archbishop of Dublin presided in 1838, decided against it.
The subject was referred to Mr. Nichols; he gave
a qualified anent to the poor law ; he sanc-
tioned it on the condition of its being accompa-
nied with certain aids and securities which we had
ever since neglected. But in 1837 we determined to hazard
the experiment, and, to do so, set at defiance every authority
on the subject, for what was the condition of Ireland at the
time ? With a population of eight millions, it was in evi-
dence that nearly two millions and a half were in a state of
habitual destitution and out of employment; and the extent
to which the habitual destitution depressed the physical con-
dition of the people was shown by the fact that in 10 years
previous to the famine, in the poorest counties of Ire-
land, the gs duration of life W. 311 reduced to 28
years. With a population in such a condition as this,
to say r othieg of the notorious embarrassment and insolvency
of a great part of the class above them, was it not obvious
that it was always on the ',rink of some !treat convulsion ?
Wu it not obvious that convulsion, at no distant period, wa.
inevitable ? Upon the country so circumstanced the famine
fell, and at the outset, when they could afford to be gene-
rous, they admitted the evil to be general, and that the im-
perial calamity should he met only by imperial resources ;
but the system of pubic relief then resorted to was so II!.
advised, the waste of public money so enormous, that even
imperial resources could not long stand the drain. An army
of 700,000 labourers, a staff of 15,000 superadded to an
expenditure of 40,000 i. a day, and rapidly increasing, opened
the ryes and alarmed the pockets of the British public, and
then what happened ? The whole sin of this waste wasthen
viaited on the Irish, although it was notorious that the Irioh
gentry were the first parties fo protest against this outlay,
to predict its mischief, and hold tneniselves absolved from is
results. They were tot listened to, and we compelled them
to borrow money to be laid out as directed, the main con-
dition being that it should he laid out in unproductive
labour, and that the country should be no better.
He had read over with some interest the history of
our past legialatim for Ireland. He knew the folly,
the cruelty, and the injustice which marked cur
past policy towards that country ; but he did be-
lieve that, seeing the times in which we lived, and
the improved knowledge we ought to have, there was
nothing in the past history of the two coantries which could
furnish a parrallel to the suicidal impolicy and injustice of
that Poor Law Extension Act. (Hear, hear.) That act
had a double effect. It made a poor law an instrument for
supporting a famine, and it added the new provision of out-
door relief, wt ich had been previously discarded in England
on :he express grounds that It would lead to a confiscation of
the whole property of the country. (Hear, hear.)
Last year there was collected in Ireland 1,600,0001.
poor-rates out of a nett rental, which previous to
the famie e was only six milli ins. Sine* that time the
farmers had received no rents, the pauperism was increasing,
and a great inrtion of the agricultural produce of the
country had teen lest. He knew that poor-rates did net
all come out of the nett rental, be-cause a considerable por.
tion of it was levied on the towns, but still the nett rental
formed a very good criterion of its effects on the resources of
a country. (Hear, bear.) He endeavoured to show that
first, at a time when there was no pressure on us, we had
the virtue to affirm the principle that a poor law
was not applicable to a famine, and that out door
relief would tend to confiscation. But afterwards
when the waste under the r. list works had irritated
the public mind in England, we proceeded in violation
of all principle, to iefiiet the evil. we had escaped in Eng
land. (Hear, hear.) The question came, whet were they
to do now? They agreed at the commencement of the ses-
sion that legislation was necessary, but that it should he
preceded by inquity. Next, the maximum and rate in aid, ,
in fact, all the state expedients which had failed in England
were peeked upend sent to Ireland. Hr c wild better illustrate
this by describing a single case, that of the union of Salina.
Before the famine the popnbtion WAS about 120,000, bat
' sow there was scarcely a robust man to be met in the union.
Last year the expenses of the union were 50,000! , and the
rates collected 10,0001. The debts were 20,0001., and the
estimated expellees, up to October, 48,0001, which would
leave liabilitiee on the union to the lomat of 68,0001. Ot
51 proprietors do Eerie elected, there were only 13 who
were not paupers, 18 estates were in the hand,
of receivers, and many of the mast active magistrates
were in gaol or hiding. Many of the estates were unpro-
ductive, and 49 50ths of the land had been lying waste for
the last two years. No rents had been paid, the tenants
having gone off to America. These were evils which could
not be got rid of in a day. The next question they had to
confide/ was, how that destitution had be' n promoted. A
bad system of agriculture and the almost exclusive
cultivation of the potato, a system which taught men to
live by wages not by land, and leg him for the greater part
of the year in idleness, were the main caws,. These, while
they gave the gentry factitious wealth and the labourer a
precarious subsistence, kept the counts? in a regular alterna-
tion of famine and insurrection. From such a state of
things British capital and enterprise turned away. The
state of things seemed beyond human ens ray, but the mei-
d:nce of Gad stepped in, and casting down the old fabric,
pointed out to English statesmen how thcg should build up.
the new. He had endeavoured to arrive at the general
diagnosis of the disease. The potato had been the great
cause, that cause had abated, and it would h• their duty to
continue the abatement. If any man glanced at the restora-
tion of the potato ss a thing to be desired, or as a cure for
present evil., he would call him Mistaken man ; if any Irish
proprieter did so, his crime would be almost as bad ; if sty
minister of state held the opinion he wonli he guilty of
treason to his country. Sooner than the potato should be-
come again the staple of Ireland he should say that prayers
ought as be off ,red up in every church and chapel for the
extermination of the fatal poison. (Laughter.) What was
wanted was additional demand for 'shear, which was only to
be got by inducing the old proprietors to spend more money,
or by introducing new cartal into the country. But Mr.
Hamilton told them that after spending considerable sums on
improvements, he could get no tenants for the land.
He would take no more loans, being overpowered by
the poor-rates. AU the proprietary asked for limited lia-1
b:lity to poor-rates, and towards that not ens step had been
made in the course of the session. The present colonial
unitary, when a lumber of that house, said, in 1831: '
Before any measure could be introduced for the permaneat relief of
the time of Ireland, It would b 2 absolutely necessary to relieve that
country from Its ettperabundant p pulatien. The transfer of our se-
perabundant labourers to the ellonift would be equally beneficial to
all parties-to the labourers, by climb:Maine the overwhelming onn-
I petition ender whisk they sow suffer ; to the settler, by afforcUnghlm

the mimeo( cultivating his land ; end both to this country and to
the colonies, by relieving much of the distress now existing in the
harmer, and by adding to the productive industry of the latter.
And subsequently, in 1845, his loresbip stated :
He thought it of the greatest importance that emigration thoult be
encouraged to • much greater extent than at present ; and be be-
lieved it was in the power of her Majesty's Ministers to take measures
that would give much grime/. eatension to the eysteus than it now
Te(V. Dorman) was sorry to say that there wss a greet
difference between the noble lord'. expressed opiniths and
the exemplification of them since be bad la en in Olt*. But
the question of emit/ratios was by no means an exclusively
Iran one, it affected England seriously at that moment
The tide of pauperism which was setting in to this country
was me of the worst evils they had to encounter. They
bad the Irish population asking for food, while the
people of New South Wales were equally anxious for
labour. "At no time," says the legislative council of New
South Wales, " has there been so great, so urgent, so pressing
a demand for labour es at the present 'moment " " The de-
sire to emigrate from Ireland is intense," says Mr. Fairfield,
"Everybody who can get out of the country is trying to do
so." The Archbishop of Dublin's communication save,
" The suffering labourers in Ireland do not desire work.
houses, but they do &sire a free passage to a colony where
they may have the means of living by their industry."
And yet, while the cost of tending a neither to New South
Wales was not beyond one year of his keep In the work-
house, no step was taken in that direction. Why, if slave:)
were permitted and Irishmen were to be sold as slaves, all
the slave dealers of the world would be competing in such a
market. That systematic emigration was necessary was a
question determined. It was also a matter of notoriety that
the landlords were ready to pay a portion of the expense
necessary for that purpose. The only question was as to
the pri portion that should be charged to them. The late
Mr. Charles Buller, a high authority on seek matters, in a
speech made in Atril, 1833, said—
A debteontreeted for such a purpose (promoting emigration) is not
unproductive waste of capital such as our national debt—nor Is it to
be likened to the debt of individuals contracted for the enjoyment of
the mameut— it is rather to be compared to the debts which wlae land-
lords often deliberately contract for the purpose of giving an addl..
tional 'Woe to their estates—or to the loans by which half the enter-
prises of trade are undertaken, and which ants be regarded as sources
of future weals h 4 not enalmumagment.
And Mr. Veadetsur Stewart gave it alibis opinion that—
lien, Odd as leans may be to drain off the surplus water from the
lens, lam convinced that similar loans to draw off a eurplus papule.
titan, which is rapidly consuming the capital of the country, would
confer still grater bentht. I.llear, hear.)

They bad it in evidence that the proprietors were ready
to lay out their capital for this purpose, in the same way as
they were ready to expend it in the improvement of their
lard under the Land Improvement Act. All that was neces-
sary to induce them to do so was limited liability. (Hear,
hear.) There could be no it!stemxtic emigration without
this—there could be no improvement without it—no benefi-
cial alteration. He bad already quoted Lord Althorp's
opini Ai that • poor-law unaccompanied by a field of
employment and • test would rubs this country. They
had ibis in Engiard—and to secure it they had established
small &moot taxation and limited divisions for the admini-

titration of the law at tending to individualise responsibility.
England, with a population of 18,000,000, bad 334 union.;
Ireland, with a population of 8,000,000, had 131 unions.
England had 1 union to every 26,000 of population, but
Ireland had I union to every 81,000. (Hear, hear.) In
England the average size of unions was 64,000 acne, while
is Ireland it was 147,000. In England there were 321
unions or more than masher under 40,000 acres ; in Ireland
there was not one under 40,000 acres. (Cheers.) In East-
land 482 or Sukte were under 30,000 et population ; in Ire-
land only 10 (or lin 13) were under 30,000. In England
the average extent of parish was 2,000 acres and the average
population 1,009; in helm I the average extent of electoral
division was 10,000 acres and the average population 4,000'
(Hear, bear.) It was impossible in Ireland, where the
workhouses were so few and for between, either to employ
the poor or to apply anything like an efficient test ; and
that being the cue, Ireland hieing without a field of in-
dustry, and without a tett, the ruin of the country would
Wow. They bad taken no account of the difficulties conse-
quent on the novelty of the law and the inexperience of the
bands of guardians when they applied a per law to Ire-
land. They had not given Ireland the benefit of the cirri-
tee which this country had obtained of the working of the
law, hut had forced upon Ireland the old unanoeuded law
which they hod rejected for tbemeelves. Ile admitted that
in England the arses of taxation and administration might
in some cases be maimed ; but, if they were to increase them
to ten times their present six?, they would be then more
manageable than tho eof Ireland, and when Ireland asked
only for the tame nominal extent and the same nominal
respoesibility, he could not conceive whit objection could be
made. It had been said, that to reduce the area would con-
duce to the multiplication of evictions. One would think
that those who a tvanced that objection had never before
boarder evictions taking place. The house was familiar with
what had been done in the Kilrudi union, and the reports of
Coptaia Kennedy on this subject. Toe relief commis
sionen themselves had said that the large unions
tended to produce evictions, inasmuch as they made
it the interest of the landlord to evict. Captain Ler-
coin said: "The tendency to evictions augment, in pro-
portion as the labour on the estates is burdensome and un-
profitable. The lencliord will not have the same motives to
employ labour in a large electoral division es he would have
Revery labourer whom he employed was a labourer the less,
for whom he would have to pay a poor-rate." And Mr.
Griffiths being asked whether the smaller area in Ulster bad
lead to evictions, answered that, " He had never bend so,
and that in his opinion a small area would lead to
the opposite result. He said that evictions had
taken place moat where the area was largest"
Teeirobject should he to induce the landlord to employ the
poor by throwing on him die, oily the burden of the rate
and m .king him feel that by good management the pecuni-
ary responsibility would he lessened, while by bad manage-
ment it must b increased, and by preventing his shining
the bunion' of the pauperism of his own tenantry and de-
pendents on the neighbouring proprietors; but while the
obi. ctions to a reduced area were few and unimportant, the
advantages of it were many and undeniable. By throwing
the burden directly on the proprietor, they made it his in-
terest to lower the rates by good management and by em-
ploying the labourers in the improvement of his property ;
or, if he were too needy to do this, the pressure of the burden
would compel him to sell hie property to such as were more
able to carry out the duties of pr prietors ; and as regarded
the paurr, they gave facilities for obtaining relief worn re.
bet was really needed, whip: they prevented the possibility
of fraud. (Hear, her.) Beery agricultural and every
social improvement in Ireland must, he believed, be
preceded by a reduction of the poer-law districts.
Now there was an oepartnuity for an improved fu-
ture. Probably there never was a better time for legis-
lating with a view to that end. lie appealed to all parties
in that house to unite in remnv:ng this their great difficulty.
The present state of Ireland was a scandal to the country
and to the age (Hear, hear.) All Ireland pleaded for was
eyes to see her wrosee, wisdom to explore her resources, and
to develop them. (Hear, hear.) It had been maid that his
motion was brought forward as a ceneure on the government.
lie did not so intend it. (Hear, hear.) What he slid was
that the measures which had pan d in regard to Ireland
since the famine had not carried out the intentions of parlia-
ment ; but for many of those measures he regarded tie late
government as well as the present responsible, end the re-
sponsibility, when once passed, of all acts wee with the par-
liament, not with the f.overnment alone. (Hear, hear.)
What ho asked was that parliament should now
acknowledge the errors it had committed in legis-
lating for Ireland, and hold out a hope of im-
provement for the future. He called upon Irish mem-
bers to exhibit that unanimity and patriotism in their en-
deavours to improve the social condition of their country
which should secure them the respect and assistance of all
Reglishosen. If they were true to England, England would
be true to them—for if Ireland thrived England prospered,
hut it Ireland perished England must deeine. (Hear, hear.)
United with Ireland we ruled the weld—separated from her
we e,awil to be an empire. (Cheers.) He moved in con-
clusion :
That an humble address be prevented to her Majesty, praying her
to take into her gracious consideration the unhappy state of Ireland,
representing that a crisis of unparalleled magnitude is afflicting that I
mot wretched country, that the chief food of her population and the
main product of her agriculture has tailed to a most dim tenets ex-
tent for several years, that thereby all eludes of her Majesty's sub-
pets In Ireland have been involved In ruin, that much of its sell has
gone oat of cultivation, that the moral and physical cooditices of toe
pe pie is lemeutablv degraded, and in pike of unexampled aid from
England, vast numbers of our fellow subjects have actually perished
from want. That it is the conviction of this house that the very
vastness of the calamity furnishes a well-founded hope that a
wise legislation, apprehending the peculiar epportunity hereby
offered and skilfully availing itself of the elements now
set free for the reconstruction of agricultural relations
In Ireland, might lay the foundation of a prosperity hitherto
unknown to that e-untry : That the bowie is continue I in that con-
viction, by the evidence given before parliament by witnesees of the
higheet ince licence and of the profoundest knowledge, of the actual
ellte and undeveloped rewired! of Ireland : That on a review of that
evidence, Ibis house is compelled painfully to acknowledge that while
tne sets epecially framed for the relief of distress elect the commence-
ment of the famine have not realised the benevolent intentions of par-
k env nt, neitner have those of a more perm usent nature been cha-
racterised by a true discernment of the peculiar featuees of the present
crisis, and the eetabilshment of any comprehensive policy adequate to
the emergency : That this house humbly prays her Majesty to three
the overeat and careful attention of her Majeety's government to the
evidence which has been laid before parliament, feeling vented that
the ability, information, wit practical etateemanahip therein displayed,
furnish ample materials for a legislation at once solid, profound, and
regenerative.
Mr. SADLEIR seconded the motion.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE felt compelled to dissent from
very much that had fallen from the hon. gentleman, but
none of his remarks were more surprising to him thaii the
statement that the house had during the present session
shown any indisposition to consider Irish questions. (Rear,
heir.) Whatever fault might be found with the house or
the government for their mode of legislating in regard to
Irish affsita, he thought there could be no difference of opi-
nion as to the industry, the patience, and the indefatigable
attention with which every subject connected with Ireland
had been lionised to, and every attempt to legislate for the
benefit of that country had been eonsrdend and forwar led
by every English as well as Irish member. (Hear,
hear.) Tne honourable gentleman himself was an
intent& of the truth of that assertion—(hear, hear)—
who now, at the. due of a weary
.session, which had been
I:Leered:he would not say exclusively, but to a great ex-
tent in the consideration of Irish affair, en what he might
call the last day of the session, came down, and super-
seding the funetiens and the duties of Irish representatives,
withut Itemise, as he (Sir W. Somerville) believed, even
visited the country whose interests he advocated—(hear,
bear)—without any direct knowledge of the people or of the
events, came down and took upon himself to eeneure, not
the government, as he said, but the parliament, and, im-
hliedly,the government, on whose responsibility the measures
e compldned of were propounded, and eventually con-
sidered and adopted by the legislature. (Hear, hear.)
re had been struck by the extraordinary contradictions in'
the speech of his him. friend. Allusions had been made to
the measures adopted by the house—first of all, the labour-
Ms and then the poor-rate act ; and the hon. member

had I.ia at the door of these measures all the evils which
now affected Ireland. But he had scarcely proceeded any
great way in his address, before he reverted to the real
Origin of the sails of the sister coun•ry Ile had depr, cued
the ancient social miseries of Ireland in a way in which he
(Sir W. Somerville) should not be incliaed to differ from
him ; and there was warmly one of the social evils which
afflicted the country upon which his hon. friend had
not touched. Many of the topics alluded to would require
to be separately debated. It was quite true that the famine
had been a monstrous evil. In the year 1845 the right hon.
baronet the memb. r for Tamworth pawed an act of parlia-
ment to provide temporarily for the preseure then threatened.
The Labour Rate Act wee passed in 1847 as a means to stay
the evil of the famine of that year. Tnat famine baa been
much more intense in its nature than the tamine of the

preceding year, but the measure the* adopted did not
essentially offer from the one of 1845. The hon. gentle-
man had condemned the measure of 1847, but it was very
easy to point out defects when we came to take • retrospec-
tive view. It was easy to say—" if this or that had been
done, the results would be very different," but at the time
the bill was passing through the house, not a voice was raised
in ap vairion to it. (Hear) Where was the hon. gentle.
man at that time? He then had a seat in the house, and
why was he not present to object, to find fault, and if possi-
ble to improve the measure. (" Oh !") But said
his honourable friend, "scarcely had that measure
paned whr n the gentry of Ireland assembled and denounced
the operation of the act, and called for a change." But
where was the gentry at the time the act was passed?
(Hear, hear) He had seen letters from members of that
house, finding fault with the act, but these membi vs ought
to have been present to express their complaints, particularly
when they knew that the act would be proposed. It was no
excuse to say now that they had gone to the Lord Lieutenant
and denounced the enactment; they should have been in
their places to object to it. (Hear.) He (Sir W. Somerville)
doubted very much whether any measure which could have
bees adopted would not have been baffled and defeated by the
enormous difficulties of the crisis with which the govern-
ment had had to contend. It was very easy to ray that if
we had the time crisis to meet again, we should be better
able to surmount it, but the real truth was, that any aftt of
parliament adopted to meet such an amount of pauperism
at was then let loose upon the country, would have been
found insufficient to surmount the calamity.' This was the
fact ; and the government, finding that they were unable to
stay the famine, had recourse to the R lief Act—that was,
an act provided to meet the main of pauperism, by bringing
to the door of every destitute person, the means of
sustaining himself and his family. Ile contended that
these means had been eminently successful, and that a
more successful measure of legislation, designed with the
view of k.eping alive the destitute poor of Ireland, bad
never passed the House of Commons. It had stayed the
famine, end preserved the lives of the people. (Hear.)
Then the Poor-relief Extension Act was passed ; and when
he heard the hon. gentleman talking of the mortality which
had occurred, and of the corpses lying upon the roads, and
of the priests and the paupers dying indiscriminately, he
feared that some exaggerations had been used.
Mr. HOESSIAN said that be had quoted from a blue
book.

fir W. SOMERVILLE admitted that it was easy enough
to quote from a blue book, and to uphold any allegation
by extracting a portion, and a portion only, of the evidence
contained in the book. He asked what reason there was for
supposing that the famine of 181 G would have beencontinued
in 1847, and if no each reason existed, what ground had the
hon. member for asserting that the act passed in 1848 was
intended te remedy the state of things existing in 1847 ? The
fact was, that the Act hal r. calved the royal assent before
there was any idea that the famine of 1816 would be
followed by the famine of 1847. Now it was to
be remembered that cut-door relief could not lie given
in Ireland until the workhouse was full, and that they could
not give outdoor relief, except in kind, to the able-bodied.
Would the hon. gentleman say that no system of outdoor
relief should be given in Ireland? If he did, then such a
proposal would amount to a sentence of death upon hun-
dreds of thousands in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) But why
had nut the hon. gentleman given some ene practical re-
commendation to enable the house to cope with the evils of
the sister country ? The heuse had listened to him
in vain for any such recommendation. There was
not a part of his speech which bad not been
over and ova again debated. (Hear.) Bellies had
been mentioned as an extreme case. Now, the last return
from that place was 23,000 who were receiving relief. In
the corresponding week of 1343, there were 41,000 receiving
relief; and he had lately received a letter in which a friend
stated to him that he had seen a large crowd of persons
assembled round the Bellies post-office. They were wailing
to receive the amount of post-office indent transmitted to
them by their relative., and the postmaster stated that he
had paid in one week, as much as 8001. to the wives and fa-
milieu
of thoee who bad lest the union to seek employment
e:sewhere. It was, therefore, unfair to characterise such a
people as idle, and in want of self reliance. (Hear, hear.)
The English can was not so strong as the hon. gentleman
represented it. He sail that the English system was
universally admitted to be the beat ; but numb, nof per-
sons whose opinions were entitled to the greats at ri meet
were in favour of large areas. The boa. gentleman asked'
what hope there was for Ireland. He (Sir W. Somerville)
was not usually very sanguine, but he could not help enter-
taining hopes that under Providence Ireland was rising from
her present miserable condition. He could not agree with
the hon. member for Cockermouth in wishing the potato
crop to tail. lie trusted, on the contr. ry, that there would
be a plentiful harvest even of the potato, as it would give them
time to look a-ound them and adopt ouch permanent measures
as might prevent a recurrence of the present evils. He did
not hope that Ireland was improving without some reason,
smell as that reason may apps sr. But according to returns
he bad receiv,d there was, in the last week, a diminution in
the workhouses of 1,000, and in the deaths of 230. lever
was also din:Wing, and in addition to this fact he found, that
while in May the number of outrages reported to the con-
stabulary was 2,031, in June they were only 1,490, showing
a diminution of more than 500. The measures of the go-
vernment having been passed by liege majorities of that
house, and they having met with the sincerest desire to
render these Ole mires useful, he felt that neither the house
directly, nor the government impliedly, were deserving of
the censure sought to be cast upon them by the hon. gentle-
man ; and he must, thi refore, meet his motion by a direct
negative. (ikar, hear.)
Mr. STAFFORD refused to recognise the doctrine that
Parliament was responsible fir the late Irish measures,
which were the w rk of the government; and he resiewed,
anh to some extent re-argued, several of those measure',
amidst manifestations of impatience in the House.
Mr SHEIL asked how it come to pan that of those Irish
members by whom this motion was to be supported, not one
had thought fit to originate Their backwardness could
not arise from incapacity, or want of self-confidence, or from
their being unaware that Mr. Horemsn had no connexion
with Ireland. It was because his want of knowledge of
Ireland was countereailed by his fitness to be an wean of
dinatiefaction. It was not, t owever, in the use of caustics
that that gentleman excelled ; lost session be had pronounced
a high encomium upon Lord Clarendon, and had ex-
tended his eulogy to the First Minister of the Crown,
acknowledging that great allowance should be made for
the difficulties with which the government had to contend.
And who would say that they were not entitled to such
alowance for difficulties almost insurmountable? Yet Mr.
Horaman now set down in his motion a censure upon them
for the temporary measures they had adopted for the relief
of Ireland. Faults may have been committed, bat he de-
nied that " the benevolint intentions of parliament " had
not been realised; and if faults had been committed, they
were as nothing.compare 1 with the relief which had been
afforded—the ran:lions of lives saved by the generosity of
Engl and. Then Mr. Horsman found fault with the perma-
nent measures. The government had to choose between
the pony-house and the charnel-house, and they chose the
former. Mr. Horsman proposed to devise a legislation that
should be " at once sol.d, profound, and regenerative."
He did not venture to discuss this unfathomable legislation,
but he believed that the urgent evils of Ireland were such
as defied human legislation, and could only be healed by an
Almighty hand.
Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON moved the adjournment of
the debate.
Col. DUNNE seconded the motion.
Mr. E. B. ROCHE hoped that if the debate was ad-
journed, some day would to fixed for renewing it.
An Hon. MEM BER.—Tias day fortnight.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he had no objection to the de-
bate being adjourned till to-morrow (this day), but he could
not give it precedence ova any of the other orders. (Laughter.)
The debate was accordingly adjourned ti.l to morrow, and
the house adjourned at five minutes past 12 o'clock.

PROCLAMATIONS OF OUTLAWRY.—At the Sheriff's
Court, Red Lion square, Mr. Hemp, the officer, made pro-
clamed n of outlawry in the following cases : the defend
ants were severally called upon to appear, tar they would
he outlawed:—E. T. Delafield, Sir W. M Stanley, Bart.,
W. llanham, G. A. Goring, M. H. Hart, G. Robinson, P.
P. Barlqw, J. W. Pyltoft, F. W. Cartwright, 8.. Martindale,
H. D Campbell, J litnneker, J. T. F. C. Cope. F. W.
Sykes, P. B. Hitch', N. B. Lee, 11. Whitaker, S. Hodges,
A. L. 3 Amon, J. Williams, W. We've, W. P. Henesge,
W. Holmes, and B. H. Willis. The next County Court was
appointed for the 16th of August.
BREACH OF PROMISE OP MARRIAGE.—TATLOR
BANISTER.—At the Court of Passage, held yesterday at
•
Liv.rpool, a cue of breach of promise of marriage was tried.
The plaintiff was a young woman, aged 25, named Eliza
Taylor, and the defendant was a sailor and innkeeper, aged
21. The damages were laid at 5001.—Mr. James, for the
plaintiff, stated that in 1848 the de fendsnt retitled with the
father and mother of the plaintiff. An attachment was
formed between the plaintiff end defendant, the latter pro-
mising her marriage if the would wait until he returned
from his next voyage. In the course of that year the de-
fendant went to sea, and iu 1818 returned, when he again
renewed his attentions to the plaintiff, and, finally, the mar-
lflags was fixed to take place on the 17th of April in that
year. Defendant gave the ;plaintiff's mother 231. for the
I purchase of a wedding dress, and purchased the ring and
other things himself. On Saturday, the 15th. he called to
tee the plaintiff, and, after remaining a short time, gave her
• kiss, and said " °Athlete you, I shall be here again at
seven o'clock." He did not, however, return, and on the
following day the plaintiff and the family were very uneasy.
The morning of the wedding arrived, and the defendant
made his appearance. The first intimation re-
ceived of him was in about eight days afterwards when
Vaintiff heard that he was married to another female.
Several witnesses were called in support of this statement.
—Mr. Tindal Atkinson, for the defendant, addressed the
jury in m'tigation of damages, on the ground that the defen-
dant was but • youth when the attachment was formed, and
that the wed 'ing had been broken off by his relatives as
being an improper match.—The aneseor having summed up,
the jury found a verdict for the plaintiff.—Damagee, 2501.

Cite ;mtgs.

OUTGOING MAILS.

The mails, rie Marseilles, to the Mediterranean, Egypt, Ceylon.
India, Hong-Kong, &a., will be made up this evening, the 24th of
Jul).
The mails for Vito, Oporto. Liston, Madeira, Cattle, and Gibraltar,
will be made upon the 27th at July.
Malls tor Whitt North ita...nen and the United States will be
made up on the eveniug of the 27th of July.
The West India Malls, inducing Bermuda, Havana, Nam;
doodling. New Orleans, and Mexico, zed rsouwng tbass toe
Madeirs. tit AMA., viearainni. Now Graozda, and Pero, will
be made up on the Ind of August.
The mails ha Madeira, the brazils, and Buenos Ayres, will be made
upon the 4th of August
the mans too Gibraltar, Malta, Greece, the lonian blends, rant.
Gerlsh. India. end China. eio .4,uthaingtou, will be mode up on
the morning of the 20th of August.

NIGH MATO:11 Al' LONDON IMMO&
Tao. Day —2lseulap. min. pant S. art ......,SS mt.. wit 5.
ri.y-110.1111az 47 Ails. peat ; Alterman. Sr t. pan 2•

LONDON, TUESDAY, JULY 94.

Tile news for the Hangar an cause is good, both from
their own river bails and mountains, as fr m the
City of London, where the most generous and Enthu-
siastic sympathy wssye.terdiy shown for their cause.
The gallant BEY Las totally routed the Russian
army, which entered the sou horn passes under
Lunse.s. And not only this hu' lie, or at least a corps
of his army, has fallen upon tl,s. 13 En JELLAciticir, of
hoisting memory, and ecually destmed his army.
Should Brief turn northwards with the forces under
his command, he cannot but give a good account of
the Russian corps which penetrati d by Boit ritz. The
Hungarians will be thus in a position to make a for-
midEble stand in the south-eastern eerner of their
country, a region of moun•ain and morass, admirably
formeu fur defensive warfare.

North of the Danube GortoEr Lad fought a series
of battles against HAYNAU in front, and, it was re-
ported, against PASKIEWITSCII at Waqzen, which
was considerobly in his rear. His final purpose,
however, was no doubt to leave a considerable garri-
son in Comorn, and to march round, a; he did
in the last campaign, to the country be-
yond the nein. The Hungarians will then
occupy mach the same district which +bey did when
attacked by liirptuisciiGnAiz. Tilt y may be now
attacked by superior forces, but they also base an
army double their former numbers. In retreating
from Comorn, GAMEY does so, not cs a beaten gene-
ral, but, on the contrary, as one who has repulsed his
foes. Dissension, inde.-d, ex•.te in the Austrian
army, HATNAU and SCHLICH throwing upon each
other the cause of their bad •ucccss. I lie itilastaua
feel that the task before them is difficult, and rein-
forcements have been nhcady called from Gallicia and
Poland.

It were to be wished that more cf the gallant Hun-
garians could have witnes,ed the enthusiasm which
their cause excited yesterday, and which showed it-
self as much out of doors as is doors of the great Ci'y
me eting. The question was, how to aid a cause,
however sacred, in a country so distant and so land-
locked as Hungary. Mr. Conneet spoke, we fear,
the only cminnon se's-' view of the question, although
we can well understand and sympathise with the
generous pro:est of Mr. OSBORNE.
The 2intes, whose broad sheet assisted at the con-
ference, and sneered at it, asking what was the use
of talking, when men could do nothing, might have
been answered. Had such a meeting taken place four
or five months ago, daring the early part of the
Huger:an struggle, such a manifestation of English
feeling then might from deterred Russia from adven-
turing on a struggle in will h the Emperor stakes his
very existence and that of his empte. His entire
council dissuaded him from ittervention. A little
more would have turned the scale against it;
and a public meeting in Lendcn would
then have sufficed. The English, however,
are slow to take up even their own cause. And
even in the case of the Hue:prim fl, they now com-
mand the wide adherence of Erglieh feeling, as much
by their gailantry, pollsr, as by the righteousness of
their cause.
But however late Erolish sympathy, there is much
that it may do. The It ingarians do not want men,
or foreigners of any race to tigtt for them. Tl ey may
want arms, resources, end such aprliatces as the
spirit of commerce can well imply them with.
They also want the countenance and approbation of a
British government, which it can only give whim sup-
ported by the assent and enthusiasm of the British
people, and which, when given, chills the confidence
of despotic powers. It floes snore, in chilling the con-
fidence in them of the rivet holders of capital and
dispent era of resources. This was the vulnerable
point which Mr. Corms:sr pointed out.
There is another way in which the governments of
England and France might serve thelfungarian cause.
It would be by insistirg on Russia's respecting the
neutrality of Turkey. At present Russia not only
makes Austria and Gallic:its the basis ed her operations,
but she converts Nlcldavia and Wallachia into a
granary and a camp, from which her
columns issuo to ',ass the mountains of Tran-
sylvania. 'this employs a large ptrion of the
Hungarian army under Best, who. if his rear was
secure, might advance to the Thetis and join in the
resistance against the invasion Irdm the west. Turkey
is most anxims to prevent Russia from making such
use of her provinces. The SULTAN feels that the
subjugation rf Ilutgary by Itussin. is but a step
towards the conquest of European Turkey. And it
forbids Russia to use the Danubian principalities as
their own. No pilwer is so s'rergthened by the sup-
port of English fccing, and of the English govern-
ment, as Turkey. And the ape- ehes of the London
Tavern will be echoed in Constantinople.
Let it not be said then that sympathy is idle, and
moral fovea no avail. Ttere arc a hundred ways
in which it can tell. Ant though France may
treachercusly desert 110 in the path of duty and of
honour, the enthusiastic expression of English feel-
ing, uttered to-day, will not die away without profit
or without result.

"'lts sport to see the engineer hoist with his own
petard." The Ordnance has been literally blown up
by its own supe,fitions accumulation of stores. Thu
much gulled public stares when it is told that the
Ordnance has in store kettles for the supply of eight
years, haversacks for the supply of 24 years, sand-
bags for the supply of 34 years. and pikes for the
supply of 47 yearn. Of these articles k. tiles being
the least perishable, the Ordnance keeps a smaller
stock of them on hand than it dots of any of the
others. These are hut samples. Everything in the
Ordnance departmtnt of stores is managed on the
same principle. If there is a likelihood of any of its
implements of destruction being soon superseded by
an improvemet t or new invention, be sure extra
stores of it are forthwith accumulated. The waste
resulting from th^ mere loss of interest on the
money thus inves'ed in perishable articles is scan-
dalous. The rdomlons accumulation of Ord-
nance stores can only be accounted for on the supposi-
tion of a secret umterstanding between the tradesmen
who supply and the officials who order them. 'lhe
exposure of the system pursued in the storehouses of
the ordnance has ruined the character of that depart-
ment for ever. " Ordnance foresight end economy"
will become a byword, and be used as a taunt when
any department or government seeks to palliate a
large expenditure by such pretexts.
A mere (elusion t r this subject, which, ever since
Wednesday e‘ebina's debate on the ordnance esti-
mates, has been alternately a theme of ;cst and in-
dignant remark with the public, is enough to show
that in the remarks on the committee's r, port which
we published last Tuesday we did not exhaust the
illustrations of the c xtravagant manner in which oar
military anthoritie- go to work (um lied by that docu-
ment. We could find texts in it, cautious, guarded,
and smooth spoken though it b 2, for weekly et mous
on profliAate expenditure for a long time t i come.
The exposures by the committee are not, however,
confined to the dep .rtment of our great guns. Their
report reflects in-tructive cross lights on other
branches of our warlike expenditure.
Our readers cannit have forgotten the memorable
splutter into which some of our scribbling heroes
broke out, when tho perquisites of the gallant regi-
mental tail re, rale4 by courtesy colonels, were
assailed. Genetal NArtea, and a whole host of
gunpowder writers, stormed and vowed that your
colonel made the melt unexceptionable and thrifty
purverrt of militery unmentionables. None such a
connoisseur as he in broadcloth and bask-stitch.
After reading their diatribes, one felt disposed to
suggest that government might with advantage take
away t:.e swords of these officers, and " hang tailors'
shears on their recreant limbs." The report on the
ordnance estimates reminds us that the clothing
colonels are not our only army tailors. The Board of