The Express.
London, England, 1851-03-19 00:00:00

toleration could be defined. Whether a man held religious the realm of England. People said it was partly the fault
truth or religious error he (Mr: Herbert) cared not, so far of memlesia of the government that certain inkbagenees had
as it affected the situation, 'whether it was one or the other been shown to the catholic episcopacy of helmet, that
-the principle of toleration was this, that a man had a courtesies bad been shown to the clergy and meadow,' of
right to hold the truth, or the error that he believed Ireland, that opinions had been expressed in debut, in
to he truth. lie admitted the unsocial tendency parliament, that silence was observed by a nolde friend of
of the Roman catholic religion-he had seen much his three years ago at Rome when a supplied paper was
of its evil influence in society, but he denied that they were said to hive been shown him which meanies' England; iud
now taking the proper mode of dealingwith it. His tuition from these things it wag said they hod no right
warn that they should tolerate all religions. We admitted to be surprised at what the Pope hail done, because he had
to parliament all religions that were Christian. (Hear.) a right to expect that they would meet it with indifference.
We boil an established church, but wo gave the fullest lie denied that any of these ground. were sufficient to
1 liberty and license to every form of religion under the justify the measures which had been adopted. lather the
' voluntary system. He preferred an establiehment, but it Pope thought the meaaures he proposed would not be aerie-
they thought a voluntary system wrong, that would be a able or out disagreeable to the government anti the 1.4 oplu
reason for voting for this bill. He dim! not think it wrong, of this country, or he did not care whether they were
though he preferred an established religion. Ile did not agreeable to the government and the people Of England.
think the voluntary system wrong fur this reason, If he attached any value to the cleat of hie mea..
that the established chard% could not cover the gums in this country, why did Inc not, in the thr, u
ground, and the mint &ream form of Christianity years that had clamed between the of the
conferred great bleaings on mankind. This country had fur alleged conversation with his noble (rived at Reim,
some considerable tine past been mapped out into dioceses fur take steps to a-certain that ? Where was Dr. Wiselitan ?
vicar, apostolic, and eight of these vicars apostolic had liven Was he not in England ? Had he not en uppoctunity of
appininteed What, he should like to know, had been the having personal intereoume with his noble friend at the
change as affecting our status, civil and religion-, by the head of the goveruntedt, and ascertaining whetie r the inn...-
appointment of Roman catholic bishops ? The language sure which the Pope contemplated would or a niold not gin.
in which these appointments had been made was referred to offence to the government and the pesiple of this ...unity p
and commented upon by prelims Teak( rs ; but it was a And, therefore, lie contended that its that conc... of pa.-
well-known fact that eceleaiasties, when they were claiming malting was studiously avoided, it Wes the
either temporal or ecclesiastical power, were very often iu papal authorities, or fer thew who advike.thal tin :r eau s to
the habit of indulging in the language of exaggeration. shelter themselves under the pretext that t ktata- land ane. n
Still he fully admitted that the manner in which the Pope's place which justified the papal gosisminent iu setae:se;
bull had been sent into this country was singularly offensive that the steps taken world not %woke iksice to the p.m.!. ..f
to our protestant feelings. (Hear, hear.) But how Enaland. Well, then, this being an matoasien ni a Ibn ieu,
were we to meet it ? It was said that the authority, what was the authority Ily wniede that astern ssien.
ultinia ratio of the rippointment of Roman ea- was tnade ? It was an authority of an eminaiastinsal kt num,
thole bishop; was that synodical action might be which had a double actinet upon the • Is of men. 1 lair,
set up, and canon law introduced. But canon hear.) Now, he would nut enter into the question of tilts
law had existed in this country since the Reforms simple theological diff reams between the pm .n. gain and
tion. (No, no.) In Ireland, certainly, the whole of the the catholic church. With that, he held, they had
canon law had been in existents: for a long series of years ; nothing at posent to do. The pi km...tams were
and he asked whether it hail been found to clash with sincerely attached to their own chumps, they n-
either the civil law or the secular arm? lie might he told operied the differences in opining% of the:r catholic
that the whole of the canon law had not been carried into brethren, and far Ike it from him to net •r • syl-
effect in Ireland. But why had it not ? Simply be- bible which would be painful nr run mount. r tn. their reli-
cause, as he apprehended, the people of that country ' ginus feelings. But surely the catholic church had a
dill not want it: Why, then, was it feared that the double anme t. It was not merely a thenamains d body. het
Roman eatholies of England should be unable to it was also it political and temporal haly. The character-
resist the introduction or tit• same law ? This lirought ietie of the catholic church wax-not a, cattrenli-tinguished
him to the question of emenlical action ; and here he to but in acconlance with the dun. ester of all other
should wish to inquire, whether it was iserinuely inteuded churches-a perpetual attempt to enc....ash upoa the tern-
by the present bill to prevent eynodical action Let the petal power and to mix itself up with temporal nevem-
house bear in mind that all the diuretics in this country at mint. Ile did not acquit other churches attic acme thing.
present in Englund, except the established church, enjoyed Churches were corporate bodies, and coroorate ro
s3-noilical action, and that Vv. established church was deliacel naturally progressive. But there was this dare reuce he-
that right simply leamuse she was established. (Hear.) twee; the Reiman catholic church and the British church,
Ile believed that to put down eyelash' was tanta- that the British church leetim and euded in the realm of
mount to the myrmidon of free disemeion. Was the England, while tho church or Rome endeavoured to
synod of Thuds.... dangerous ? Why, Sir Robert Kane spread its authority in a circle, ever-winh alt over ilea
Was the Principal of ono of the Irish colleges; and Christian world. -Well, then, what au, the action. thu
did he quail before the terrors of the synod? No; he temporal and political action of that church Look to
nobly defended the right of protestant and Roman catholic, tlieric countriess in which the catliel:c church was pre-
being brought up under the lame roof, side by side with dominant. Look to Portuied, to Spain, to Italy.
each other, and instructed to the fullest extent. lie had Look, he was concerned to eny, also to Austria,
read the speech of Sir It. Kane on this subject with great and they would find that wherever the cathelic cherat
pleasure, and he was glad to find that the Roman catholic was alloweil to seize hotel of temporal atitherity,
pupils in the colleges were increasing instead of diminish- influence was painfully exerted in moniressina t penical
nag, notwithstanding the decree of the ',plod. (lAar.) power and privileges of the people. And thee. le. -.ad, some
Now the right hon. baronet thin' member for the university nwasure was expected by the English in
of Oxfard (Sir It. Inglis) liaa made several propesitions on mimics:of the steps adopted. That, ila man ki had had
this subject. Ile had mcommended a negotiation with his eyes and ears open could for a lame it dispute. He
Rome, and, failing in that, a bombardment of Cirita knew it had ben said by those who an-heed to keep up the
Vecchia ' • hut would we have Meru justified in the eyes of delusion that the agitation in this country Was ail agitation
civilised Europe in proceedina to such extremities as these 1' of interested men, wishing to retain their temporalaaels. aunt
Innen' of legmlation, it had been suggested front many was not at all the. Rponemenkus feelitta of the Eimt hide natien.
quarters that, nn insult being offered, we should That Was au anoertion that it V..ns not worth while
confine oure.thes to a protest against it; and 'ldiot course to answer. No man iu tide country, a hatevese might Is• his
it might he that ac should releane ourselves front many opinion of the merits of thins bill, or of the teeessity of
difficultha, and at least avoid the commencement of a con- doing anything-no Ulan who knew what Lad lean kteiott
test fatal to the tranquillity of the country, and which, if on in this country-could entertain the slighteet tb.ulnt, er
not undertaken with a more accurate knowledge of the would deny, that this agitation hail been a great mos meant
exact nature of the question each which we had to deal, of the protestant people of England, ((':esers.) And,
could only result in mortifying discredit to ourselyea. though he sail he viewed with respect and del' renee the
(Hear, hear.) And what did the right lion. biennia the tenets and opinions of those who differ, el from him en the
Secretary for the 'lonic Department say when supplying to religiose question, yet he must say that, attaished as he
the homse reasons why this bill should not be sleeted ? Was to the British constitution, mad to tie• liberty and
lie said distinctly that in resistance of papal presuinptions freedom of action and thought whieh Is tonged to that
and aggressions he rested his defence, not on any legislation constitution, he should be sorry indeed that :env thing should
such as this, but no the unalterable and deep protestant take place whieh should check the peliticel and 'lomat:cut
sentiments of the people of England. This bill, said the establielimeuts of the kingdom in which he hap the happi-
, right lion. baronet, is nothing more than in the nature of a seas to live. He said that the voice of the es ogle of hug-
protest against the papal aggreenion. Wt.'', then, if this gland required that suinestleing Minute' be donna (hear.)
were so, ally did the government not propew a protest His right hon. friend said that whet they we n• morning
instead of proposing tttt ? The gore-mm.ln had pre- was not the proper thing to do. If laguitifersteenl at all the
ferred an attempt at legislation, and let them now look at vague suggestions-(hour)-which his right hon. friend
the perple•xities into which they had plunged themselves, threw out, he should infer that what he would have ',reposed
1 with a bill to carry, all the clauses of which, one excepted, would have bees ?a.m . negotiatiou with the court of Rome;
they lead themselvea already been compelled to, abandon, he averred it was not right -he thouttlit it aboird -tu legislato
having a preamble ineutliciait and a title inadequate, against our own subject., but he presumed he did not me an
and with the probability le•fore them that, certain amend- ling. were to legislate against the Pope. If lie thought
mints beim: pressed, they would le. compelled to vote against their laws would not be obeyed I.y thenteaves, surely to
their ow-n measure. (Hear, hear.) And this was solely did not int:mine they would hate much form at Rome.
because the government chose to affect legislation when His right hon. friend properly repudiated the id a that had
they ought to have confined themselves to declaration. been thrown out by some that they should have sent some
They scanted to strike a blow at the Pope. But did they ? hoetile armament to Rom ugrennl with hint that
No:the hlow struck at the Englieh Roman catholics. (Hear, papal bulls were not to he properly met I.v cannon balls. Ile
hear.) It was nut clay to legislate against a foreign thought the dignified and primer course ins the country to
emereign in all eases ; hut in this case there were means take was to le•gislate fur themnelves. mid not to go to the,
of doing so. In ordinary cams they had diplomacy, Pope and say, " You have done that a pact we minnieler a
and that failing, they had only warfare to resort to; great affront, you have done that which e acme item as a
hut, as retorted the Pope, there acre menus of great 'Fellation of our national hide/tend-me, and as all
precaution against aggression ; and these means had not infringement of the sovereignty of our country, there-
yet hem tried. But on the threshold here they were met, fore, we come, cap in laud, no you, to retract
no doubt, by a vast eibetaeles- a prejudiced public opulent. what you have don.., or to nullify it." In what a
The people of England had become certainly bilerant and humiliating position would they have been in under
averse to religious perneution on account of religious such circumstances. Still he wan quite randy to admit that
opinions. They were, beyond all question, strongly op- it would have been very ineonsintent with the mum which
posed to any retrogression to peal enactments, being, he either the members of this aoyernment er the maniere or
believed, deeply imbued with the true and gentle spirit of the legislature hail pursued if they had prep.-ell to parlia-
the gag's.). They saw in the Roman catholic went a bill which could have been justly called
system an imperiling in imperio - a government a penal or a le rsecuting eel:echo-M. Ile must in
side by side with the state, which did involve passing my, that when he saw letters and &tiara-
dangers and disturbances to the community, and thins emanating front catholic ecclesiastics epeaking
against which, in smue method, they were denirous of taking of fanaticism and persecution and i.....lerance,, that
a vague presoutimi. But they were emphatically opposed whim they looked to the cosmic of prom-miner in regard to
to nll pereeention. The people of England, how-ever, went toleration which lin:railed iu countri., a here the totholiC
thus far ;-They will "You must have no commuideution priesthood were dominant, he hoist say phut legsecution
whatever with the Pope." The moment it was suggested and intolerance were words that lie thought u eatholic pre-
to enter into diplomatic relations; with the court of Rome, late ought most studiously to eschew. (1 tear, hear.) Ent
in order that the ecelesiastiesal arrangements made by Rome he, fur one, ucver would le. a party to what ea del be pro-
in reference to Euglandshould always be preliminarily sub- le fly called a penal enactment, aunt he utterly nln weeded that
mitted to the English government, the cry arose-" 'l'unch the hill they had proposed had :thy thing 4.0 that
not the unclean beast." They then asked the government character. In poilit of fact the bill es.. mc.lay ta-e
to do that which it was not possible for any government to minplement of minnuris which forineil 1. net of la.
and not until three preliminary precautions were takeneould eniancipation of the Catholies. The bill ofteal inroailnit. I
they avoid the dangers with which the relations of England catholic prelates from taking the titles of see, et any disea •
to Rome were ourrouteled. They might pass trumpery acts or province which balonge to the English estalkiishin. al.
of parliament -(hear, hear) ; but they would never, in this Whether it was incident or not the law omitted to extend
way, make any inipressiem upon that part of the Roman that prohibition to other elacts a Rhin the realm. Why
catholic system which wets hostile to their government. was that law to be cukesidereel an a niere mete taloa to tho
(Hear, hear.) Al! such acts of parliament had but this English church ? Ile would not aceept it on
effect-they gave to the Roman catholic, the prestige of the limited a grouted us that. lie held the law of
persecuted, and to the moteatants the disgrace of the peram InasJ to be a defence of the sovereign rights of
tutor. (Year, hear.) Nothing WWI So fatal as a Amu the country -he held that lair to be into what
pereecution. (Hear, hear.) And what, after all, if aunt justified on the ground that they would not is rant a
this bill, intended to appease the prelatical feeling of foreign potentate to give to any prism a tith tap: .-,a film
England, should turn out to have a directly contrary any place within the United kingdom; all I therm-:;ire ho
effect ? Moat undoehtedly this hill was it step backwards. held that the bill they were now poyasing a.n in principle
llt was idle to talk of nosh &Maas a deChinition of the people precisely the same as the act of 1ti:19„ and that it referrod
iof England. Au address of both houses to the Queen might to matters which were omitted from that yet : and be
have been properly aceopted as such a national &duration. could not refrain from expressing hi, utter sad ex-
But the real pretext was in those meetings which had theme surprise that any perant who was a party
been held over the country. (near.) Those meetings to, and supporter of that act “bouhl, on min-
im' sent up petitions and addresses sigma" by eiple, object to the niewsure now piatinned. Ho
thousands and by millions. Did the men who signed these contended that this bill was in principle exately upon tho
want parliament to enact that the bishop of one place wine ground as the measure which formed dart nits the ar-
should continue to call himself by the title of another ? No, ringemente of ernanCipatioU. Ile contended further. that,
they meant to deslare that the Roman catholic religion is living upon the manse ground as that measure, it ..0411.1 not
making progress in these realms, and that they desired to justly be deemed as tau-taking in any degree of a penal
sec some stem taken to impede it. The people of England or persecuting character. It Yves said that the catholic
had dealt with this as a religious and not as a political church required officers of the rinds of binitops. Why, thr
question. And a peculiarity in all these protests of the 2.10 years and more the catholic church fu this ceiwary had
people of Englaud was this-that they asked gone on with vicars-apiatolic, and he had yet to hear
for no penal enactments whatever. (Hear, hear.) the reakon assigned why that state of things milt not
The right him. gentleman, after some remarks of a similar still have gone on. Therefinse he contend-1 that the MA-
character, expressed his conviction of the strength of the sum they haul proposed applied el: mealy to tho
English people iu their protestant faith. Ile would only add evil fur which a remedy was demanded. ft nn t tho
that it was perfectly true that the Roman catholic faith had of ease for which it was proposed, and it would not preclude
late made great progress in England. The right lion. gentle- the legislature of this country from taking any other nu a-
man then admitted that great changes in opinion hail token suns, if other measures should be required, w hich ho
place, and, iu reference to recent events in the church of trusted never would he. He thought the Ink :Inure adequate
Englund, expressed his regret at the defalcation which had to the evils which were complained of. (Cheers.)
occurred. But his belief was that the affections of the On the motion of Mr. 11. BEIMULLY the debate was
English were never more firmly fixed upon their reformed then adjourned till to-morrow (Thursday.)
faith Onus ut this moment. It was his firm couviction that
the doctrines of the church of Rome were foreign to the The other orders of the day were then ostponed, and
genius of tire English. (Hear.) He did not believe that the him at a quarter after r, iteljournol till hainurreve
(this day)
this country, with her free institutions and her free
scope for the exercise of private judgment, would ever
succumb to an influence which controlled the freedom of
thought. They head upou the faith and the freedom
which they had inherited from their forefathers, and over
them he believed that nothing eould prevail. The right
hon. gentleman concluded by exhorting the government to
meet this aggression in the only way in which it could be
met-by the strength of their mot scant ductrines-by the
force of education-and by the spread of tho gospel, letting
in light where darkness existed, and then rest confident
that in the end truth must prevail.
Viscount PALMERSTON said at that late hour he
would detain the house but for a short time. There was a
just
portion of the speech of his right hon. friend who had
just sat dolma which belonged more proper) a committee
than to the present stage of the bill, /, hear)-and
there was also some portion of it which would bw worthy
of further and future consideration on the part of his right
hon. friend, who, perhaps, might decide some questions
that appeared now undetermined in his mind. The first
was, what would be himself do in this matter, object-
ing as he did to what the government had pro-
posed ? The next question upon which he would
have them come to a decision, was whether this
hi
obwilln"p.a.acrtatnlitaatlisti)ne. eorheabaped
Theehaduatiosenett inlitehrtnltsuse*edhoenhill
never listened to discussions with greater pain than to that
upon which the house was now engaged. lie had hoped
that those angry discussions and coutroversies concerning I
wilitepathrriteln,Vll?iipTitlh.,..icitipitcolabfethatoaullstichadr:tifotb,,partnliammeoretaCillyb:lis, fur he
wilh-reee-
doctrinal point, and of catladies led dissenters would never
againdtb:ti
notelate
1 greater principle of religious freedom, which was so per-
fectly identified with the institutions of the couutry, that
he had hoped no more of such discussions would be heard
hi. act of aggres-
,owiucoilithrent
iitnendfbrti,ouhimrt:eewih:eawaractlehimaflilose,rrleigneßlfnanatfatoowareaduhitnt:Eiocutrphiiftqa.,niul:ci.respettla
acjingranit
luipeanwoultdhe„yinitd,e,nao,nadsena tfortsoisrnearueiluwitoyf
thathtisheco:n only wiecotuliury7d;
which ho thought it was their bounden duty to repel.
to the act which the rope had attempted to exercise within

TURNPIKE TitusTs AND THE SECRETARY OF
STATE.—The committee now sitting on thy applications of
the various turnpike trusts throughout the kin4doni for a
renewal of their local acts, have received a report from thu
Secretary of State, to the effect, that it having been repro-
sinned to hint that considerable saving of VC1.1.91A, in these
mutters might he effected by preliminary inquiries, he has
caused such inquirie: to be instituted into the eireunustancts
of each of the 14 trusts applying to parli,atent this session.
In conducting the several inquiries, and in endeavouring to
effcet equitable arrangements between opposing parties, Sir
George Grey states that he has been desirous to recommend,
as far as practicable in each case, that a I:u•tion of the an-
nual income of each trust should be applied to the rAlenap-
[ion of the debt at present existing, so that the trust may
be in a borer financial condition annually, with a
prospect of being entirely relieved of it. ,Lbt Ili early as
possible, without imposing any additional burthens upon
the parishe4, or the public travellers.
AsSENT OF THE ADMIRALTY \\-TTtIITET.D: The
Lords of the Admiralty roport that they must withhold any
assent to the following applimtions to parlitin mt, via.,
L'astlemaine liarlrour Bill, Ennis Dowers Bill, ilolyhcall
. Railway or Tramway Bill, Poultiasherry Embankment
Bill, Stroad and Dover Railway Bill, end Th.. am and
Medway Conservancy Bill, until an ha, been
athird, d them of having the schemes locally pa;. gigged.
In each of these schemes they state that fl used a
loc 11 preliminary inquir2r necessary to cn•tu:, tlr it to re-
, port to p•.rliarnent on their merits, unit the promoters %c ern
called on to make a deposit to cover the (even., ,if such
examination, with which requesttheyhut 0 fail .a ,n comply,
, though two applications hare been made to theca fo; that
purpose.

FLAX CrLTITATION IRELINIL—The annual
[tax 'swing of Ulster averages 50,000 acr, z. Fur the vebt of
Ireland it is but 4,000. Supposing each of the other pro-
ViWcw to cultivate flax as extensively 34 11-ter, th, value of
the crop fur all Ireland would, it is estintsit, d, be 1,500,91.61.
Here is a " text for thinkers," and a " t tor wore tluut
table-talk."—Dublia Evening Exj.wsr.