The Express.
London, England, 1851-06-30 00:00:00

SPEECH OF M. TRIERS ON FREE TRADE.

The following is the translation of M. Thiers's
speech referred to by our Paris Correspondent :
M. Thiers began his oration by acknowledging the grott-
oes' of this quietism, which artated the whole world at
this moment, and interested 4 ranee as much as any which
could possibly be stirred. He felt that to go into so spa-
cious and deep a subject with any fruit, so as to leave no
Mature vague and obscure, he should have need of ths As-
sembly's patience. For thirty years he had never varied
upon this question, and he had been convinced by
attentive stashes and scrupulous observation of facts that
France owed her peosperity to the system which she bad
followed. M. St. Beare had deeply impressed the elms-
bor. at the clone of his speech, by stating that batman
1830 and 1850 the exports of England hat dimseasiod bon
38 minims sterling to 70 millions. Let that beware how
they attributed m a nonsasontal pansy wing was UN of oat
of peace. France had also been at peace during that
period, and what was the result? Why, that she had more
than doubled her exports. The figures were official. In
1830 the exports amounted to 462 millions of francs. In
1819 they were 1,032 millions. (Sensation.) The system
which he defended was not therefore so bad. if they were
to take this criterion the English system was condemned ;
for England had not doubled her exports in the same
period. They were told continually to imitate the grand
experiment made in England. But before an experiment
was imitated it would tw wise to wait and see if it were
successful. Time had nut yet given sentence upon the
English experiment. t'pon several points the superiority
of England was ineontestable before the trial began. Upon
thaw points in which she poweesacel no superiority, the
trial had proved ruinous. It had caused enlightened men
to question, nut the genius of Sir It. Peel, but his prudence.
lle should be the must ungrateful of men if from that tri-
bune he uttered a word of anything but the deepest respect
for that great statesman, who in the English parliament
had applied to him (M. Thiess) expressions, of which he
would only say that he would fain hare deserved such. But
there was not a man of common sense that did not admit
that Peel had been precipitate, and had exposed his country
to revere trials by the boldness of his reforms. But if they
were to imitate the grind experiinent they must find see
what parts of it were applicable to France, sad what were
totally inapplicable in this country. In England the direct
taxes were of small amount compared to the produce of the
Customs duties and Excise. The Customs duties amounted
in French money to :49 millions, the Excise to 3.50 mil-
lions, which gave 900 millions of taxes upon objects of
consumption, imported or raised at home. Well : the direct
taxes amounted to only 100 millions. Stamps, post-office,
and some secesorics carried the revenue to 1,300
millions of kenos It France, on the other hand, the direct
and indirect taxes were halaucsal. Both amounted to 4.50
millions. This was the characteristic difference between the
two countries, and their budgets. During the war what
had been done in England ? 'faxes had been heaped upon
every sort of article of consumption. When peace was re,
established, the natural course was what had been done in
France, to take them off again. The task begun by Hus-
kisson was continued by Grey, and consummated by Peel.
In England not only foreign raw material of a kind which
was produced at home was to ed, but foreign raw material,
of a kind which could not be raised in the country. Well;
by the redaction of the proportion of indirect taxation a
deficit had been created, which had necessitated the impo-
sition of the income tax. Was France to imitate England?
Why England hail imitated France, and even fallen far
short of the original. Never in any French Assembly held
since 1789, nor in the Council of State, which is charged to
watch over the municipal taxation, had a single tax been
permitted to be imposed upon articles of consumption or
upon raw materials nut produced in the country; but only
upon such objects as, being raised at home, required protec-
tioo. What France had done in one day by her explosion!
of 1789, England had performed silently, gradually, pscifi- '
rally. Thus the gap made by reducing the indirect taxes
had been filled by increasing the direct, as had already
been duuc in France. Bat what sort of direct tax had
been established ? The income tax, already grown insup-
portable by the arbitrary and inequitable nature of its dis-
tribution. Thus the direct taxes had been increased from
100 millions of fronts to 210 millions. while the indirect
taxes were 900 millions. It was a step no doubt in the
right direction ; but greatly behind France, which had
reached a complete balance between her direct and indirect
taxation. Here H Thiers glorified the revolution in terms
which being aimed too clearly to tickle the ears of the
left, raised more murmur, than applause in that quar-
ter. The first part of the great modern commer-
cial reforms of England, he continued, was, there-
fore, copied from France. As for the second part,
namely, free trade, God forbid that France should ever
copy that from England. To justify his protest he would
par in review the leading trades. First facts, and then
theory. All is protected iu France ; but, according to M.
Bt. Deuve, not equally protected. Nothing was more diffi-
cult to ascertain than the amount of protection accorded to
any industry. But he would pmve that agriculture, which
M. St. Beare instanced as being less protected than other
interests, was more so than any. In naming the sissies of
productions which were protected, Al. Thiers was reminded
of wine. Wines. he said, were very proud, and thought
they could do without protection. Now he, who thought
his country not only equal, but superior to her neighbours,
—(murmurs)—and whom no one would of under-
ratino her superiority in wines, was of a =t. opinion,
and was satisfied that the progress of Spar sad Italy in
this branch of commerce rendered proteetbso necessary ba
France. He would begin with corn. is ssinlitting the
corn duties, the remunerating prise el sera bed
been reckoned at 241. the hectolitre. The ,Issw
of the south were contracted ups* tIM sumo-
sition that 20f. was the average price ; in the north 18f. was
shimmed as the mean. The sliding wale mast that the
duty was increased 2f. per hectolitre for every franc which
corn fell below 24f. Now the price of corn in the district
of Marseilles was at present I.lf. per hectolitre. COllllO-
l oettily the duty (being sera at 21f.) wanwanlBl. The best
Odessa
wheat could be landed at Marseilles at 13f. Here,
therefore, was an industry which had a duty of 18f. to pro-
test it on a cost price of 13f.—s protective duty of 160 par
twat. Was he not right in saying that agrkWtars was one
of the most protected branches of industry in Francis ? Bat

W. ft Beare said there was no diding scale for iron ; and
that the iron manufacturers went allowed to raise

their meats without limitation. Whrwas there a eliding
seeks for earw, sad mete for iron ? He would make that
clear. Mrs bees • eneeession of bad harvests you cannot
at a Emaints Wks double or triple the production of
corn ; beemelles Oglansion of its cultivation is extremely
slow. Os tis eihribrid, when there was • call for iron,
its prodallia oda be multiplied as fest as you please.
For instamen. et the dew of the great railway develo=
in two riga*, der of smelting furnaces i%
had beam mat thedied. In 1844 there were 38, is 15.4
Si. Tbe beesemes wee that iron became nearly as cheap
as is Isghsed.- Tim he the case of manufactures a year of
11111111ity was Mar Mowed by a year of plenty ; but in
SIN& it was dee wrewes, became a bad year was generally
soyam by abed peer. But M. St. Beuve says that corn
leftism desswet west protection, that the French gum=
and set her the eweepstition of Odessa. This is jest whet
1 the bewdrehere said la England. But what had how the
fact. He was in England a week ago, and be Ihrimi
that the price or corn one month :ago was Ms.
the taster; while the leases had been contracted on the
suppwitwa a 565. being the remunerative pries. It was
asserbess that agriculture had lost 30 per cent. in England.
Thirty-eight shillings the quarter corresponded to 16f. the
hectolitre. But there was one circumstance in England
which had facilitated the abolition of the eons laws. It was
•question of aristocracy and democracy. There the pro-
prkton of the soil were immensely rich, and the fanners
was opulent. But if you took from the proprietors of the
sell is France, would you be taking fye' the rich r
Femme the soil belonged Mall ; and .-
agristaltarei ruinsai all.eli O Butw, to show tr,
411; el te lJ hum how a.
lax andreef. ? Firs =Mew sea
It was all very well to talk of bnying
awdost ; bat what were these r
how were they to live—if you
far eh* frames the hectolitre

was sew shirr to have sere WO asatilaelly
sestries re arc to bring her led. " I am
mirMemstycheera" True: she WA carried et the palm
la So lest areggies end with France her disseres at sea
veered to bappase With her glories on land.. But they
Wow et what IMsYihN war= !Crosierkei kn-
own re destiny, when be mitts reelsoW as eleadveieg
Primps I shad be oseit bee rprepsee
zetswagamee." (Cheers.) Those able aa
treen change the face of things. What would tea
ireere of the country that was o' lilted to cover the ma
sir ads to get her food ? Why, in time of war, the price
et
bread would be doubled. So well was this known, that
}set
de were retarning to the culture of corn, sad converting
tracts of pasture into arable. For England,
who loved to call herself mistress of the seas, just
as France loved to talk of Marengo and Austerlitz—and
national vanity was as grand in a nation as in an in-
dividual it was aboard—for England, such • dependence
on forelga therm kr her nourishment might paw ; but for
France, sarylees France, to fetch the third of her food
from the hanks of the Mississippi or Volga, why they
would be • nation of madmen, children—there was no name
fee mash telly—to dream of such a thin. remise
beak mall eat be delivered from the Whim IMF •
eta apish, er he would speak of other beendras ef
&wiry with the same detail. He would mat rat of
ce cattle. The production of Fran wee enimaini
millions of francs. He thought it wee rers—larr
14,000. Of these cereals represented kali asilliaae ; cattle,
whether as butchers' meat, hides, or wool, repeerated
1,400 millions ; pastures, 600 millions. Theo atelMospre-
seated altogether about 2,000 millions. It was inehretird
r• duty oft* frame a head on oxen, 6 trams s Uri en
eap, and 22 per cent. oa wool. In Raalimiljato Mipart•
ado, of cattle was free. It hed dew se bona
Why ? Because English cattle IMO ropirlre Ie eny in
Europe. Then, owing to its insular poilluas re alsere
difficulty of conveying cattle by sad, sal the romeamms of
those muntries, such as Wurteraborg, Bwitredrol. and
Piedmont, which alone could Wpm cattle into aggland
with advantage. But for France to throw *pm to iron
tier, her railways, admitted to he admirable Ilse Molgumport
of cattle, why it would produce an amaatag egetenethea. He
had heard the advantage of the duty of gOL matested, but
if you let in wool, it would be quits 11.1.1•1014) to rear
flocks in Picardy. To Napoleon was Hartle idea of breed-
ing merinos ink ranee' which was imeatedi at at first, like
beetroot sugar. But piece on.. le /Motif, the ideas of
war. Peace brought pooteedea mpg* the prediction
which war by its nature had aired. Ant mews''s= Pisardy
merinos afforded that insewprehis wed whir made the
French star sought for is wiry part ef tie world. Pre-
med/ he would spar al dirk MO wrier of tissues.
Weil. wither &eke, am Err re. cad wither Immure no
men. Bat the Pleardy woolgrowers wasted at lire
I.7sr IS sees the pearl et wed. The data ird eat raised
re prise ef wool, whisk had en the eratrway Mos
liti:Pillairmary would hl user ifbaagressiesi"2
of which enormous quantities were lapseted into
Replant ht. Sainte-Beuve cited the opinion M W. lien-
=saweellen-manufieturer of Rheims, in favour of the
silks duty. Then: was nothing wonderful he sad;
a WhiL Bat he would ask M. Henriot how be weer like
the duty ma woollen goods to be abolished. For the rest the
bets simaseed by AL llenriot had beta eontradietid by the
emaoil.general and the chamber of commerce. The
opinions of another manufacturer, M. Jean Dollfus, had
been much pet forward. M. Dollfus was a calico printer,
who wanted to get white calico free of duty. That
wee weasel oneugh. (Laughter.) In speaking of-wood be
blared the minister of finance for supporting liberty of
cutting timber. The state in return for the protection which
it accorded to the home grower against foreign timber, had a
right to demand sacrifices from the owner of forests in
favour of the navy. lie then quoted Montesquieu, whom
he maintained to be an incomparably superior economist to
Adam Smith, to prove that what was restriction for the
trade was an advantage fur trade. Well, the 7.000 millions
of agricultural produce were completely protected in France.
There remained 1,000 millions of mixed and 4,000 millions
of industrial produce. lie next spoke of coal. It was called
the arm of peace. Let them remember it was also the arm
of war. They paid dearer for their coal than the English,
certainly ; but the foreign competition was far inure serious
in this branch than in corn. Out of 51 millions of hecto-
litres consumed in France 30 millions were English or Bel-
gian coals. The average price on the spot of production
was from 70 to 80 centimes: the average price paid by the
consumer 2f. The reason of the greater dearness than in
England lay chiefly in the defective means of transport
here, which caused an increase of 75 per cent. on the sale
price. M. Thiers then traced the variation of the price of
coal in different parts of France, and observed that
during the last 18 years the price of ced had been reduced
by one half. English coal, at present, arrives at Nantes,
Boileau:, Dieppe, and other porta. Effect the slightest
change iu your tariffs, and you will see English coal at sncc
reaching Tours, l'aris, and other large towns. French coal
will be extracted from the pits in smaller quantities, and
the mining population, so difficult to be formed, will be
rapidly dispersed. If you have a war you will be obliged
to procure coal from Belgium, who will not be able perhaps
to furnish all that you want, or, if she does, will make you
pay dear for it. Again, with respect to iron, I could de
monstrate to you easily that since protection as sheltered
it, the trade leis made such progress, the price being dimi-
nished from 52fr. to 22fr. the quiutul, that there is but a
very slight difference at present between the French price
and that of Eugland. In fact, the difference between the
price of iron in the two countries is only from Ur. 50e. to
21r. 60c. the quintal, and that difference is caused by the
difficulty of the transport. (Cheers.) The hon. gentle-
man then briefly remarked on the improvement which
hail taken place in the commercial situation of France since
the revolution of February, and added: I can very well
conceive that when& people has a small territory like that of
the three British Wanda., it should feel the greatest anxiety to
have foreign markets opened to it ; but when a country
has a market like France, it ought to endeavour to keep it
to itself, and then give what is not wanted to others, if auy
such remainder there should happen. to be. Slaughter.)
Just see what progress France is making. In 1,86 she pro-
dated from 15 to 20 millions of cotton thread or twist—at
present she produces 700 millions. (Movement.) Ten
years back she produced 30 =Wiens of kilogrammes of
cotton cloths, whilst at present the amount was 65 millions,
the price for the one quantity being the same as for the other,
whien proves how much wages had fallen. The hon. gen-
tleman then proceeded to argue that a reduction in the
duty on iron would not be of any great advan-
tage to agriculture, looking at the quantity which
it employed. As to cotton, the case would he the
same ; French cotton cost 30 per rent. more than English
cotton; if the protective duty, which only entered into th,..
figure for 6 per cent., were suppressed, there would still
remain 24 per cent. in favour of England. What, then,
caused that difference of price ? This circumstance—that
England produced by immense masses, which lessened the
price of manufacture, at the same time that her means of
transport were more perfect. Suppose that that duty of 6
per tent. were suppressed, what great advantage would it be
to the French consumer ? (Movement.) As to navigation,
continued M. Thiers, M. Ste. Beuve has spoken of what
took piece under the Restoration. I have always remarked
that, when an experiment does not succeed, the fault is
invariably laid on those who commenced it. It is thus that
the treaties of 1826 and 1827 are blamed, whereas I con.
shier that they ought to be approved of, (or we were in
the end forced to accept the equality of flag with the
United States. How was tat? Because when a nation
lays • tax on matters at home, it can do so with impunity ;
but whom it imposes • duty on foreign veseels, the country
to whir they belong will retaliate. France long played
at WM with the United Sates, but in the end
was erred to yield. The Americans constructed vessels of
LON tens; Havre, piqued at the superiority attributed to
the Americans for so doing, also built vessels of 1,000 tons,
bat maid sly dad freight for JOS m 400 toes : the Ameri-
cans, who hail plenty of erre te send to Europe, began by
Err their awn- Werra, mid the ve the rest as freight
to wars. I arm. der rat the of goods depends on
ciremeadMelle gale of wide, ofteu on mere
lead and prelim eisenersese. • great nation cannot
mesa It depend en redo pewee far its daily supplies ;

we cannot look to *than for our iron, coals, and tissues.
The hon. gentleman here entered into an examination of
the theory of lisissesfoins. He examined what had taken
plate in England under Henry VIII., and reminded the
chamber that woollens produced at that period in England
were sent to Flanders, where they were spun and sent back
in a manufactured state. What was the conduct adopted
by Henry VIII. ? He levied a heavy duty on Flemish
manufactures, and forced the English to manufleture
for themselves. Every one now knows how they
manufacture cloths. That was what the wicked
Henry VIII. did; and if that bad been all he did, I
would not apply the term wicked to him. (Laughter.)
H. Thies then alluded to the cotton manufactures which
England had borrowed from India; to the policy of
William 111., in whose reign the old spinning-wheel was
replaced by more complicated contrivances. As soon as
they bad conquered Inds* they no longer prohibited Indian
cottons, but placed a duty of 76 per cent. on them. This
English people, be continued in a tone of iron had con-
ceived
a nether whim, which was to make silk manufac-
tures • and although they had not quite succeeded, Lyons
was already alarmed at their progresa. He then traced the
birth and progress of the English iron trade with Sweden.
In 1829 they had a duty of Wt. the quintal on iron, while
the French duty was only 26f. It was not free trade which
had done so much for the superiority of England,but a system
of stern protection, which had been only relaxed when
the superiority had been attained. He then traced
the English breed of horses to the poor Flanders mare, the
fat Norman hone, crossed with Arab stallions, showing
. . . . .
and

.. wee not In that way s.
industries of France harl keen born and reared. 'Those
giddy kinp of France, as Machiavelli called them, were not
blind an their travels in Italy ; and Francis I. and Henri
IV. had irought home the mulberry-tree to plant in the
While Louis was humbling Spain,
rltrawasiconquering clothe, and making Abbeville
tam= Ike its webs. Lace was not taken from the
and Venetians by laiaaez-faire, but a woman
was set up with workmen, money and privi-
leges to produce specimens within a given time. When
the glasses of Venice had to be surpassed, workmen were
fetched from the Adriatic capital, and furnished with
means, honours, and privileges. Under the Revolution and
the Empire English manufactures were burned. That was
the way to originate something solid sad grand, not by
laissez-faire. Ho then turned to the Left, and told them
that he was quite as democratic as they were, only with a
greater spice of philosophy. Ho was not going to counsel
them to indulge that magnificent patronage of the old kings,
who cultivated France as if she were their garden—aid
cultivated it very well, too, sometimes. He was not going
to advise them to furnish industries with capital, or to burn
foreign goods. Of course their tariff was not to be eternal,
he knew that very well. Prohibitive duties must be re-
placed by high protective duties, and high protec-
tive duties hy moderate. But there must be an in-
terest for making these changes. lie would instance
the linen trade, which France had been on the point of
losing. A duty of 5 per cent. was first established ; that
was found to be insufficient, and it was afterwards increased
to 10, 15, and 25 per cent., and the result was that 100 mil-
lions were saved to the country. Such was the result of
protection. I now come to my last argument; the example
of England and of America. We have the Exhibition of
London to form a comparison as to the strength of nations.
The Exhibition of London, that noble and grand imitation
of France. England there takes the lead, through her spe-
ciality, in a great portion of her manufactures. She has
nothing to tear for iron, coak or cotton. Masters of markets
for their productions, the nglish have been led to believe
that in all other respects they could support free
trade. It has not been the "ante with corn ; that war
only brought about by • political pressure. 'the aris-
tocracy, however, knew how to make sacrifices, for
that body is essentially liberal ; it is the mother and
the guardian of liberty in England; and I think that if the
aristocracy of England were to perish, liberty would fall
with it. (Agitatioe.) I think Ido you honour, gentlemen
of the Left, in saying this, for it proves that you can bear
the truth ; and the truth is, that the English aristocracy is
ementially liberal, and that if we do nut commit very
serious faults we are sure of having England as a friend and
a support under circumstances which I foresee, but which I
hope never to sea take place in Europe. (Renewed agita-
tion.) lam not at all deceived as to the result of free
trade in corn in England. God grant that the English
'word° malzeremain calm before the eventualities of the
ivi. I that a will sad bura.wmad not.
however, w to intrace into France what I sounder t 6
have been an imprudence in England, in spite of all which it
may supportwith the speciality of its manufactures. I will now
say a few wordson French manufactures. Their chareeteris-
ties are universality and perfection. In manufactures we
are the masters. Compare the productions of France
with those of England, Germany, Italy, and Spain, and you
will see that you have all which those nations have toge-
ther, while they have nut what you possess. You are en-
dowc.l with great intelligence, and are assisted by the aid
of ma... Misery. Formerly the glory acquired by our armies
made us: forget our unfortunate politics ; now, it is our ma-
nufactur es which take the lead. Our workmen out of doors
are noisy and ungovernable ; in their workshops, with
their tools in Ikea hands, they are perfect. We have an
export trade almost ea good as that of England. We sell
at a higher p.ies, but we sell good articles, such as excite
the admiration of Europe. In articles of luxury, there is
no country that can compete with us. Does this perfection
canoe the living of the working-classes to be dearer here
than elsewhere ? ;11 order to ascertain that fact, I have my-
self visited the diffeivat shops in London and in Paris. In
London, bread of the first quality is sold 60c. the two pound
loaf in France it is ‘nly 26c. Meat of the first quality in
London costs 17 seas, in' France 16 sous, the second quality
1.5 sous and 12 sous le spoctivcly, and the third
.quality
9 sous and 7 sous. With .-egard to clothing, calico in Lon-
don costs 92 centimes the m in Paris only 90e. The
making of a shirt in London costs 3f. 75e., in Paris it is
better made for 3f. You will, perhaps, ask me why this
calico, which is made in such Likste quantities in England,
is sold at such a high price-to the English people ? That
C. 1.11 be readily explained. As the Euglish manufacturers
produce large quantities they cannot become dealers, and
the article therefore passes through sesieral hands before it
conies into those of thc consumer. la yrance such is not
the cast the manufacturer is all* the dialer. I am far
from wishing to foretell a disastrous dentin; for Eland,
but I say that she requires to be very pow srful •
Suppose, however, that any change should take place in her
political position, what would become of thit influence
abroad? I prefer, for my part, a good exist once at
home. (Hear, hear.) In America they
.now make for
24e. what costs the English 29e. America is also be-
coming acquainted with manufactures on a lame scale.
With regard to France, she has her market secured to her,
we do not depend on a reaction in favour of cheap articles.
I should be very proud to be an Englishman, but I am not
unhappy at being a Frenchman. (Approving laughter.)
Two great nations are now entering on a manufacturing
career—America and Russia . one has a democratic and the
other a despotic form of government. Both are making
rapid strides. The Americans have good reasons for advo-
cating the system of free trade. They have all they require
fur fool and clothing. But if Washington were to return
an earth, what advice would he give his fellow-country-
men? I am sure that he would advise them t 3 remain
agriculturists, as the surest means of liberty and of great-
ness. (" Hear, hear !" Sensation.) Russia desires to make
cotton cloths, because she wants to trade in them with
China, her design being to transport them there in cara-
vans. The Russians are perfectly right, for every nation
ought to do as much as is in its own power. At first,
the experiment will cost deer, but with time and pa-
tience the article will become cheap. Look on the map at
the spot which we occupy : what is it in comparison with
the rest of the world ? l'rovidence has given to China and
India, silk ; to America, cotton ;to Arabia, the horse. But
Providence has given soma aiug superior to all these things
to the temperate zone—namely, man. (Hear.) Man, so
created superior, exercises his intelligence, and after bring-
ing to perfection the goods which he receives from these
distant climes, sends them back to the populations which
gave them. It is, I say, the design of God which you
blaspheme in proposing to confide to chance this great and
noble civilisation. 1 protest in the name of my country
against such a doctrine. and I recommend it to persevere in
the admirable sentiments of its policy and its tradition.
(Loud applause.)

ngiroL—timrl.o' "i; that her also the whetheilee. hedged by protection
you would, by ruining interdiction of the empereaties a entire horses. Lastly,
the poverty of the pee- they kid ssweeived the-Idea of under their fogy
ow slam hi IWillee the Dili!
and a half apostle. elestod the idea of
buying in the cheapest einieSiare_ sad ken whisk was emilad
as people to do— P of Crystal- The enhibleket wee the limit
u bought your corn spectacle which man maid malsepiats. IClesere.). id.
at Odessa / England Thine then ridiculed the soden of latrine Wogs find their
6,000 vessels continually level. It was not in that way that tke mon Important
. .