The Express.
London, England, 1849-03-02 00:00:00

WI a dada of sixpence in the pound on each electoral
k INA anion towude • general fund for the relief
ko Is leek= • that the said sum shall be paid to •
..least et the Bank of Ireland, in the Dune of the
stolen services in Ireland, aul shall be applied
inireftliailimenmer ea parliament shall direct." To the motion
Weiss the bans. he (Mr.S.Crawford) had to move the follow-
lad
smemilment_ " That it is unconstitutional and unjust to
Impel ea Inked separate national taxation for the wants of
heallie, in long as the public general revenue of
air Me an imperial treasury, and rimed at the
lemelature, for the general purposes
itirUM=tica." ;He objected to any separate in
tom Si Ilatianal taxation for Ireland under the present con-
stitutions/ the empire. The Act of Union was framed on
the Wangle of combined responsibility. The union ittelf
MS forced on Ireland; but England, having taken Irish
poverty into partnership, could not now repudiate the results,
of that onnexion. lie would cot then enter into the ques-
tion whether the repeal of the union would be advantegeous
to Ireland or not ; bet if the union was to be maintained,
the principle of united responsibility must be its basis.
When a smaller country was united to a larger one, whose
inhabitants were the most numerous and influential
of the two, there was no security for in interests
bat that of united responsibility. On this ground
he maintained that it was unconstitutional to create
a separate system of national taxation for Ireland.
For his own part he was perfectly willing that
Inland should pay the income-tax or any amount of taxation
which would be just and fair. On that point he was very
anxious not to be misunderstood : he did not demand any-
thing from England except on the ground that Ireland was
prepared to pay her fair proportion of the taxes of the
United Kingdom. He had voted for the extension of the
fume-tax to Ireland, and he should be ready to vote
again for the imposition of any tax on that
wintry with which It was fairly chargeable. It
was said that England kept her own poor, and
Ireland should do the same. He was quite willing that
Inland should maintain her own poor in the some way that
England did; but this country had never acted on that
prkokle of making the whole nation responsible for the
Meat wants of particular districts. He did not deny that
advances of public money might be necessary at the present
time to save the Irish people from starvation ,• but he main-
tained that all advances should be made out of the
imperial treasury, that Ireland should be charged
with her fair proportion of the debt, and that not one far-
thing should be applied without previously making the lands
tithe diguessed districts responsible for the recayment. He
wee append to grant. as injuriou to the real interests of the
Irish people. The attempt to feed a pauper population was
an impregnable one. What the people wanted was eat
only fad, but clothes. Any relief which could be aflorded
would therefore be only temporary, and if the system were
eared in, nearly the whole community would become
dent on it. Now, the government intended to
a sixpenny rate. What would such a rate
rteliZards relieving Irish pauperism? If Ireland con-
sented to the imposition of • sixpenny rate the
extent of the demand would be incalculable ; the de-
mand of 6d. atter ed. would go one without any limit. He
called upon English members to do as they would be done
by, and not to tax the industry of the northern and middle
districts of Ireland on account of the extravagance and mis-
management of the western parts.
The question having been put,
Mr. B. B. ROCHE objected to the motion, principally on
the ground that it interposed an obstacle to the motion " for
going into committee."
Lord CASTLEItBAGII would recommend his hon. frieed
not to press hie motion to a division, though, if he did so,
he should feel bound to vote for it. He thought it beet,
however, first to ascertain in committee on what grounds the
government proposed this extraordinary scheme of taxation.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD regretted that he could not comply
with his noble friend's request.
The Marquis of ORANBY said he should owe) the
proposition of the noble lord, as altogether crude and i/21-
perfect.
Sir J. WALSH said it had been understood that there
was to be a discussion on the general principle of the measure
before the Speaker left the chair.
Mr. REYNOLDS thought the better course would be to
allow the noble lord an opportunity of explaining Lis views
fully to the house.
The house divided. The numbers were—
For the motion
For the amendment l5-124
Sir J. WALSH then rose, pursuant to notice, to move a
direct negative en the question that the Speaker do leave
the chair. The government appeared, in the preparation
of these resolutions ,to have acted upon the very Irish prin-
ciple of fighting first and inquiring into the rights of the
dispute afterwards. He protested against the princip'e that
a government should, on certain cut and dry resolutions, of
what he could not help regarding as a practically packed
committee, seek to induce parliament to legislate off-hand
upon a subject of such enormous importance as this. The
scheme before the house he could not but re-
gard as the mutilated portion of some larger plan,
either abandoned as a whole, or to be completed
at a more convenient period. He had never read a
report so wholly inadequate to the importance of the
case, as that before the house. How utterly inadequate the
rate which it proposed, to the purpose to be fuelled. A rate
of 6d. in the pound on 13,300,0001 , the estimated rental of
Inland,would only amount to 325,0001., even suppo-ing that
all the malcontent insolvent parishes wen to pay their quote.
For his part he believed ghat the fullest amount they would
collect from such a rate would not be more than 200,0001.
The sum of 206,0001. would go only a very little way to-
wards relieving the destitution of Ireland—if, as was stated,
the 50,0001• already granted would only last a fortnight.
The principle of levying a rate in aid, destroyed all local
economy, and for so small a sum as would be produced, it
would only last three or four weeks. Its tendency would be
to increase the circle of destitution, which it professed to lessen
and relieve. He would not dwell on the injustice of taxing
Ulster and Leinster for Munster and Connaught ; all he
would say was, that if by continuing to be taxed the former
provinces believed they would permanently benefit their
fellow countrymen they would do so, but they did not believe
in such • result. The recent poor-law did not cute the dis-
ease, and it would isgulf all the property of Ireland in the
end, without producing any other results. The 200,000/.
would follow•the 50,0001. as that had followed the 10,000,0001.,
=doll would be swallowed up. His opinion of the rate in
ell now proposed by the government was, that it would be
t,and that it would be raised from 6d. to le.
Vressima insisted that Ireland must be made to support her
awn poor; but the more severely the land was taxed to effect
this, the greater was the number of paupers thrown upon
Boglishmen from Ireland. Bad, however, as her condition
was, he did not despair. If a sound policy was resorted to,
instead of attempting to effect all the good by doling out
charity, which was unwillingly given—if the action of the
poor-law was limited—if the rights of property were respected
—if emigration were promoted—these would be the sure
and speedy means of restoring prosperity to Ireland.
He believed that emigration well dew ed and applied, more
particularly to the destitute districts, would be found to be
a powerful auxiliary measure in alleviating distress in
Ireland. If the government would thus neur to sounder
principles, he doubted not but many Irish members would
consent to eons system of local taxation, which would aid
In the transition from distress to prosperity. The plan at
present proposed by the government lie looked upon as
altogethe vicious in principle ; and entertaining these views
he shou'd certainly divide upon the question that the speaker
do leen the chair.
Mr. NAPIER said he should have thought that upon
each a questiou as the present, affecting as it did the most
vital interests of Ireland, some members of the
government would hays risen and have stated the
grounds for going into committee to propose a rata in aid
upon Ireland--a proposal which he did not hesitate to ea
would tend to alienate from us the affections of the wimple
of that country. (Hear, hear.) This was one of the com-
prehensive measures which the government had promised to
introduce—a measure affirming that honest and just prin-
ciple, that for the poverty of Connaught they were to tax the
industry, the honour, and the virtue of localities which bad
no more to do with tie distress of Connaught than York-
Aire or any other English county. (Loud cries of " Oh,
' eh.") He most say he had hope for Ireland in the enormity
el this proposition,'beattise he was satisfied that no British
retkaan, who was not swayed by party feelings, would
ear spa calm reflection subscribe to it. (Hear, hear.) lie
hair= eons before that house as a mendicant for Ireland.
He admitted that the distressed districts of Ireland had re-
sened sash assistance from England as it was worthy for a
meat eountry te give. He had always admitted that ; but
be felt that it was premature to ask the house to come
to a conclusion with regard to any auxiliary rate '
in aid before the government should state the mode
b which they proposed to effect the objeet they had in
view. (Hear, hear.) The government had had ample time
to consider this question, and to mature measures wish re-
gard to it : but now, in the absence of all explanadoo, he
supposed he meat take it that no modification of the poor law
was to be proposed to the house. If this had been • tax
upon general property, upon the mortgagee or the annuitant,
or upon income generally, he could have understood it; but
he could not understand the principle upon which the land
of Ireland was selected—the land which had suffered so
' much from each a combination of cansee—to bear the burden
of this rate. (Hear, hear.) Ulster had net caused the
poverty of Connaught; bat even if it had, should not • wise
government seek rather to gents Connaught up to the level
of Ulster, than by this paltry and unjust measure endeavour
to degrade Ulster down to the level of Connaught ? (Cheers.)
The persona upon whom this rate would fall the heaviest
were the hard-working, honest, frugal, industrious farmers ;
and whilst the noble lord allowed personal income to escape,
he inflicted the burthen upon that poor wretched clue of
tecants. By such measures the distress of Ireland would not
be relieved. On the contrary, they perpetuated the distress
and stereotyped the poverty. This great question of the
poor law, affecting as it did the whole state of Ireland, was
worthy of the most serious consideration of the house. All
the consequences which had been predicted from its enact-
ment by thou best acquainted with Ireland had been verified.
Thebes's", was asked, at present, to begin with a dxpenny rate.
It would have been mare honest, at least more manly, of the
government, if they intended to confiscate the whole property
of Ireland, to have used the boldness of the burglar, and have
at once stated their intentions, rather than the meanness and
the cunning of the pickpocket. Their first duty should
have been to have shown what modificatimia of the poor law
were proposed. They should have expressed • determina-
tion to amend its abuses, to correct its end-admicistration ;
and then they might have said thy this was a great emer-
gency, that it would be necessary to have some assistance to
preserve the people from starving, but that these was such 4
pressure upon England that they could not ask her to nth-
tribute ; and then it would have been • fair proposition to
have taxed the general property of Inland ; but, if there
were one species of property more than another which should
have been excluded upon every principle of justice and ho-
nesty, kit wee the very property which the government had