The Express.
London, England, 1849-07-11 00:00:00

133 spiked= fa repairing churches which were in dan-
ger of Mlles. Seek wee the actual pities of the Irish
ekerch io reference to its property.
Mr. HUMS said he had bees seldom so ratified with any
speech on Ibis subject as with the most convecting, satiefec-
tory, and moderato speech of his bon. Mead. (Hoz.) Not
canned the points noticed by his hen. Mend hed bon
, whilst the time of the house bad been takea up by
the boo.
such
with antlers which he never toothed
apes, such as &memo, pluralities, and mareseidems es the
part of the clergy. The relit hoe. gentleman had not
grapoloi with the points which had boa brought forward
by his hon. Mond. The boa. gentleman mid that the church
el Ireland was not so wealthy as was opposed. But it was
net • question of wealth. It was the degradation which
IPS be felt by the Roman esthetics of Irelead,who formed the
greet majority of the nation, at being ealledo& to contribute
to Support the church of the enisority. It was the placing
that ease of depredation weep catholic that proved such
6 social and mon injury to the white eggairr. Bs looked
upon the so ion of his lies. Mod is • itaansial sad social
mist of view, as one of the utmost isportanos. (Bear.)
le was most naturally that the fright boa. genthemas
eshred the solution of • dillerity which he him-
self bed not been able to elope with, to gentlemen who ke
669 lest Arty years bad been wrap* the system. (War,
bear.) There was no question, however, that this subject
lim6 he grappled wi h; the Anglican church hi Ireland
meat be remosid ; for he did not seem with his has. Mead
be steatite a compromise. (Hear.) Twenty-Saar ago
Weed, when he himself brought the modes ye-
bleat, he had an idea that a time be mei-
gable, but all his subsequent caperissee bed lengle hint that
he had been mistaken la this sake. (800 beer.) The
English cluisek is Ireland mast Via aappert
upon the insaiben of that Starch. A if Ms. Orissa
opposite were as satisfied as they professed yes to be
that the principles of this church wave the only precipice
that were entitled to be maintained, there essidi be no real
rear on %lite port that due support weak% be wilkhel Iby its
members. (Rear, hear.) Their broom r, in
charring so fixedly to the revenues of the chunk M
Ireland, clearly showed their opiates that the sop-
poet of those 'empties the climb Meld would la These
"'fell.. were clearly public messy, which bed been taken
by parlianseat from one sect and given to another, and which
were sill, as much as ever, at the disposal of parlientest.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. P. WOOD said he should sepperlthe metienmstbeeento
be felt that at this advanced period of the sods& say peer
then result meld unetedistely follow from its &dopiest, but
lactoss it eastacoated a principle I. which be fully sow
mood, and which be was satisfied =Vet, soccer or later, be
astod apes by the goverunest of the country. (Hear,
bear.) This was a great &Mean trustee, • question
'Song • nation Snick we bad treated from the period of
ewe greS ono idea with the utmost iodipity, bet towards
which • erbarby different toes and Toney snot be adopted.
(Heer, hem.) It west a very little way towards the settle-
feet of this gassiest to point out that • few pluralities had
has reduced, a few siouieres cut of. It was well that
three amendments had been effected, but they wield set
satisfy • nation whose just complaint was that &early eight
inillioas of people were taxed for the mistimes's( &church
among them whose memben did net count ow million.
(Hear, hear.) The great mistake of the established church
in Ireland from the asset was that it had
national shush. He did not consider it nacorary foe a
bishop to have 4,0001. a year. (Bear, hear.) He, knew
en admirable specimen of a bishop at Perth, who had
only 701. a year—(hear)—and no man was ever more ho-
noured or beloved than that estimable prelate. The boys
would kneel down in the streets, and beg kis blessing, as he
passed sling. Bet he did not propose to limit the Irish
bishops to 701. a year. humid of annulling any more of the
lbiehope, which measure he looked upon to lave been a
harsh and uncalled-for proceeding, he would proceed
on the principle that the act of 18V had entirely abolished
and broken down the pale which separated the two classes
in Ireland. He would treat the church es lever having
been the church of the people, hut only of the pale; and it
should Male to be a church in the sense in which it was now
looked at. Hs would grant—whet was no small boos—
the power of choosing their own bishops to the niembes
of the protestant relapse in Ireland, which power of choice
was possessed by toe Roman catholic* there. And those
protestant bishops should still he remitted to retain some of
their present emeluments—a portion of the remaindee should
be applied to religious and educational instruction—and a
also to the purposes of the Roman catholic clergy.
Kir h; aid not think that the bishops ought to continue
to receive 4.0001. • year. He would say 1.5001.
a piece for tea bishops, and he would men go
lower than that if it were necessary--so that
lauded of 40,00G1. a-year being sppropristed am now to the
Whops they would henceforward receive at the very utmost
16001. amongst them all. He would not give up the
tithe. If they were gives up the landerds alone would
profit by them. They were not of the nature of a tax, but
rather of a rent charge—and be was sorry that there had
been 25 per cent of their amount given up. Such were the
views which he entertained on this subject, and having
so far explained himself be should only further add
that he felt bound to support the motion bf the hon. member
for Middlesex, reserving to himself the right of objecting to
the views entertained by that hoe. gentleman.
Mr. NAPIER wand have been satisfied to have rested
the defence of the church of Inland oa **speech of his
Ma. colleague, but he felt Mead to comet a misre-
presentation that had been made by an hos. mem-
ber opposite (Mr. Reynolds), who had averted that
church propi rty wand in the Roman catholic
of Ireland had been tread. reed to the church of England by
pact of parliament. Would the hoe member show him that
set had ad fied him to do so. The hon. ember for Middle-
sex itted the imam* of the character and conduct
D
the ministers of the protestaat church of Ireland ; the
Mshope of that church we the lineal dreceadants of the
old and pure church, and what grounds were there for ils
Sublet the clergy of that church in their possessions ? Was
that church establishment too lop for the protestants of
Irelaed—(loud cries of "Oh," and laughter)—at least
according to the ideas of the protestant' themseles. (Laugh-
ter.) At that late hour he should not trespass further than
to uprose his intention to vote against the motion.
Mr. REYNOLDS expiated.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL mkt the Hems of Cosinloas was
set the arena for a theological dissuades, seek as the hoe.
and learned lumber for Dublin Usivenity had stored into.
The question wee sot whether St. Patrick was the founder
el the preentent church is Inland, or whether the present
Lesittect Wisps were the liaeal descendants of the early
411=althengb, assiaLkeis:istive bishops of the Christie*
w 616 sever he did sot well see bow that
toy be. (A laugh.) peseta before the house
was, what were the religious opinions of the poor—
that was, the greet moss of Si people—of Ireland ?
Bepissed bisects is the position of his protases% brethren
is belied, sad he asked himself if he had beau brought up
be their frith, and they bad long enjoyed large sums of
messy, what would his feelings be if he were deprived of
that miaistratioa ? He maintained mow, se he had male
Seised bribe, that a respostabie provision should always be
weds for the weeklies dew of this peasstaat church.
Be admitted that the Irish pelsehlmeideogy bed deserved the
deep mod toting petite& of the bib gesegis. It was %hem-
line as spirit of hostility to them that he should vote kW
the wed= of his has. friend. (Bear, bees.)
Mr. REYNOLDS bad sever beard matil that esselag
that St. Patrick was • protestant. Be was • mint ;
and it had bees said that he wee • " geneses* "—(a
laugh)—and, act may that, it had been said that
he " calm 61 decent people" (renewed laughter)
but ortaielyi evil that evening, he bad neve?
heard that St. Patrick wee • protestant. (Hew, hoe.)
There was once • very despotic king celled Beery
who had &quarrel with the Pope, and he eapereeded the
Pope sod made a Pope of himself, aid be deeded that no
Irish bishop nor Irish Teeter stolid hold • besellee ashes
they mimowkdged him as head of the *loch. The clergy
his cedmiestitel Whisky, Sid the oaths woe
th s WWI yeesewed by tbeee el W sew med.
!be Ihileeles wawa of the velowse of the Irish
Aunt wee bees a prehshat peetedieel, the Daily
lirratfor. et May, 1646. Them were far anhbiskops
hitheere. 161,1271. LIB. 4d. ; deem and chap-
l., 72,6241. 6s. ed. ; glebe lands, 92,0301. ; tint*
=shoe, 651,7611. 14e. 7d.; ministers money, 10,0001. ;
an aggregate of 807,5231. 12 6l. That
WM irrespective of the income of 75,0001. • year
by Trinity College derived boa leads sad
Thee poor domesients paid the omens
agentof .astare, widths& ease the probate. He held in his
official doormat teaching the poverty of the Irish
He found the motate duty paid anon the property
.hR by the following bishops, up to July, 1832. The arch
bishop Of Dublin, 150,0001.; Seagrove. Bishop of Tuem,
250 0001 ; Ayer, of Camel, 400 cont. ; Cork, 26,0001. ;
nro-
mare, 40,0001. ; Verret*, 60.0001.; Clamber, 25 0001. ;
Eaphoe, 26,0001. : Kinston, 100,0001.: making 6 total, with
others, of 1.676,0001, apes whisk probate duty was paid by
the desoodants of these descendants of Pt. Patrick.
Ns thanked the boa. member for Middlesex, not
ply for the spirit with which be had inerodseed
the subject, but for the ilea sad argumentative
week which be had &limes , end he begged also t
wale vat the discoidal, being carried on with good temper,
would do greet good in bawd, and wof afford the
people • guarantee that they WPM not to be deprived of
elevatingan y church of the minority Ove their heads. He
thought that ought not to be tolerated in any country.
Major BERESFORD could show that the probate duty
pail on the WW Ankbiehop of Team's property was
40,0001. and not 200,0001.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL did got rise to allude to the sub-
ject matter of debate, but simply to eater two protests. In
the first place he protested against the inference that the
Irish people were indiffereat to the monstrous justiceinuse of the
Irish chinch establishment, because they had fo he
ties petitioned parliament oa the sublets,. The fact wee, that
even previous to the famine they had looked upon petiti ming
o melee, and looked te repeal of the onion as the preliminary
step tr redrew of this, along with other grievances. The
other protest he had to nuke was against the principle laid
down by the hon. member for Mayo, sonely. that it
would be wise to endow the catholic clergy. Spottier from
ley general knowledge of both priests and petiole he could
say. that thee would rather the church establishment re-
mained as it was, than that there should be any state
endowment for the catholic church.
Mr. OSBORNS-1 do wet think that the friends of reli-
gious equality in Ireland have any reason to repot the thee,
or upshot, of the debate. (Hear, hear ) But the present is
• melancholy occasion, and the whip principle has expired.
(Ls's& cheers and laughter. We have heard ef
birth, parentage. sad
education of the spprepd6.
lion clause, and now our meleneholy duty ta to
'Send its obsequies, the Right Hon. Secretary for site Home
Deportees, eines the dirge as chief mourner, while all the
men who voted for the clause since 1835 are forced to walk

is the fumral procession. (" Hear, bier," and laughter.)
The right hon. gentleman says that I am net consistent, be-
man I wished to abolish the church altogether in 1848.
But whoa he reminds sae of rely looms's' ency, he
*wild not forget that he himself supported the ballot
to Dnasport and opposed it in Northumberland. (Hear.)
This question, which had already destroyed so many go-
' yerasseals, will eventually prove the grays of her Ho.
jerty's renal miairry. (Hoar, hear.)
At the coardadoe of the hon. member's reply, there was a
pretty general rash from the ministerial beeches. As the
Members passed out they core greeted with Lad haulm'
cheering from the proteetioidat aide of the home.
Ti. house divided.

--
For the antics
Aisiast it l7O-67
Ths assinineement of the amain was pasted with loud
dons by ths ealwority.
NEW ROUSES OF PARLIAMENT.

Mr. PACKI postponed his notion oa the delay is cow
*Us% duo aotr Roans of Cosmos. gill seat session.

HARBOURS OF REFUGE.
Ow the voodoo of ldr. BRIGHT (in the absence of Mr.
Hams), the fallowing returns were ordered :—R-tuna of all
sane voted for harbours of refuge skies the year 1844 land •
statement of the mosey upended upon Lower, Hawich,
and Portlaad supectieely : similar return for &,l head, die
tiaguishiag between the sums a:undid upon the old and
new harbgen: statement, showing under which departaisat
of government the several harbour works are being carded
out, and the sort of superintendents cr control that is
erawbed over Gum: copies of the authenticated plea (if any)
of the works to be executed at each of than places,
(%hsozisoi
the Meat to which It is proposed they should be
and the estimated expanse of each : sad a the most oi
surreys, if any, or copy of plans, if any, showing the
=
made from time tometi in the wicks; =disbuds(
precast elate ; the amount already szpeadod is ease, mei
the amount to be ozraded to c ,sepleta the warts as mist.
sally planned. Copies of the authority under which the
harbour department of the Admiralty was formed, and of the
latter of instructed', if any, which prosaribed includes: sad
of repute( any ontainee of Inquiry as to the efficiency of
that department, or of any report. if say, reemamending its
reduction, together with say doettasots or other ',ideate or
which such report may bare Wm feuded.
NEW BILLS.

Os the motion of rir. HAYTER, item was gives to bring
In a bill to repeal the allowances Is he purchme of stamps,
sad for the receiving and accounting for the duties on gold
and silver plate, and to great ether allowances in lieu
thereof.
Oa the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE-
QUER., a bill further to timmd an act of the tenth year of
her prisent Majesty, for rendering valid certain proceedings
for the relief el Distress in Ireland, by employment of the
labouring poor, and to indemnify those who have seed is
suet proceedings. Also, bid to amend an act of the tenth
year of her Majesty, intimated, " An Act tat facilitate tha Im-
provement of Leaded Property in Ireland."
Oa the motion of Sir W. SOMERVILLE, a bill to con-
tinue an act of the 6th and 6th years of her present Majesty,
for amending the law Mauve to private lunatic asylums in
Ireland.

MINES AND COLLIERIES BILL.
Mr. WYLD moved the second reading of this bill. Year
after year the lase of life in collieries was increasing, and
this year it had increased 35 per cant. over the previous jeer,
end his object in proposing this bill was to provide a remedy
for this evil by a proper and efficient system of inspection.
Sir G. GREY suggested that legislation should be post.
posed uatil the committee now sitting of the House of
Lords on the subject, and the eommiesion appointed by the
severnment, should have reported. Re did nut desire tis
ire the merits of the bill, but he imam prepared to seem* te
site appointment of a chief iospettor In London, sad a num.
her of impmears in the country, to be paid fur by • rate of
is Nis pond. He believed the understanding on a
Issas dio rum% that the bill should be postponed until the
ispiries referred to bad concluded. If the hon. gentleman
persisted in pressing the second reading, he should feel it his
duty is move that it be read a second time that day three
mouths. _ _ _

Mr. AGLIONBY supported the bill.
Mr. BERNAL opposed it. He bad a sincere desire to
effect the of ject in mew, but be had full cAtfilenet mat the
right hon. gentleman, the home secretary, would pay due
attention to the subject.
Mr. DUNCAN requested Mr. Wyld to withdraw the
bill.
Strangers withdrew, but the bill was negatived without a
division.

Ia reply to Mr. HIM'S,
Mr. LABOUCHERE mid he could not at prevent fix the
day for the seemed reading of the Railway Audit Bill, but
that he would do so on Thursday.
The hones went into committee on the
POOR RELIEF (CITIES AND BOROUGHS) BILL,
The several clauses of which were agreed to.
BOROUGHS RELIEF BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
TRUSTEES BELIEF BILL.
This bill also pared through committee.
SHERIFFS (WESTMORELAND) BILL.
This bill was read a second time and passed through com-
mittee.
The orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
house adjourned at half. put one o'cbick.

Mu. Houma/Jr paired off is favour of Kr. Osborne''
motion ow the Irish 'burgh with lard Henry Lemnos.

Vie erproso.

OUTGOING MAILS.

Maas kr Wadi North /Liberia sad tho United Rata, will be
each apes the main of tbe 13th July.
The silo far Mao, Oporto. Whoa, Madeira, Cadiz, and Gibraltar,
willbessale ve ea the 17th of My.
Thu Meer lONS ill* esatudher lienasia. Havana, Nimes,
liesaame likre Orteaso, zed Masie., sad taciwltag than lee
lesdeles.lll. Jemoboeloseasea, Nam Gromeda, cain. aad toes.
bomb op es the 17Ih et July.
lie Nib eltnism, aims. OVeIM, Sbe kali& 111Madis Ea*,
et
aim eis houthamptse, will he made esi Ne dee
et Me IMM
Thema; eis IllersiNes le the Mediteotesses, lempt, (leeks,
MAK Ilisieelgeleß Om. win be toads opal the wages at July Milt.
Iles nobler Madan, the Brazils sad Brame Apse, will be leads
epos the eth MAlrset.

WOE WATER AT IIAWDOR MUM&
To
Tay —WaiWag,l6 sal Aleumies.l mil&Plog
To lI•ww—ERWWT.IIIESE pot 6 ; ikkanams. • nes. pa S.

LONDON, WEDNESDAY, JULY 1

Arran an interval of five years the question of the
Irish Church has been raised once more in the Howie
of Commas. Last night, upon the motion of Mr.
Online:el, the old controversy regarding the tem-
poralities of that overgrown establishment was
revived. In a most able and telling speech,
lull of widely-Dulled and well-arranged informa-
tion on the subject, the hon. member for Mid-
dlesex endeavoured to recall attention to the position
in which the question stood previous to the fall of Sir
ROBERT PEEL'S admiuistrauon. He reviewed the suc-
cessive declarations of the hones in favour of appro-
priating the surplus wealth of the church in Ireland ;
and reproachfully reminded ministers of the reiterated
pledges they had given in support of that measure.
The latter could as little be explained away as the
former could be erased from the records of parlia-
ment s and, so far from public opinion having gone
back upon the subject, we are convinced that every
day's progress in general liberality and enlightenment
has tended, and will still farther tend, to abate the
force of that resistance which was formerly arrayed
successfully against the mention of this most wise and
equitable principle.
We cannot disguise, however, from ourselves that
MON prew•ng wants and urgent necessities have do-
ring the last three years engrossed the popular mind
on the other iclikof the Channel to the exclusion et
nearly all prospective views and aspirations. Tempo-
reiry relief from hunger, not permanent exemption
kern injustice, has occupied men's thoughts : nor can
itbe denied that so long as the fearful exigencies et
liesiee were likely to recur, little energy was likely
le be evinced in the renewed dismission ot meek
sullied. But there is every reasonable ground to
hope that the night of physical misery is pail, and
that henceforth more grateful and ennobling
topics will resume their place in the national
consideration. If this be so, it cannot be long until
a spirit of resistance to an institution so utterly inde-
fensible will be evoked in Ireland, with which a deep
and earnest sympathy will not be slow to manifest
itself in this country.
The speech of Sir GEORGE OM will be read by
every sagacious friend of the whirs throughout the
*navy with feelings d disappointment and dismay.
Stang by the recitation of his former sentiments into
ea inellestive effort at retort on Mr. OSBORNE, he
tried le elicit tory cheers by empty compliments
to the protestant clergy of Ireland for their exertions
luring the famine, as if no other clergy or no other
sect had done anything in the cause of national
clarity; and finding it equally difficult to excite the
enthusiasm of the bench behind him by bandying
sneers with his radical tormentor, or of the bench be-
fore him by his flattery of the unimpeached parochial
clergy, he betook himself at last to the still
more hopeless task of reconciling his votes
and speeches in favour of the appropriation clause
with the dogged silence and immobility of himself
and his colleagues on the question since their regamp-
tion of power. And on this head, all he had to sly
amounted to this—that notwithstanding every pled
and declaration ever made to lessen the superfluous
endowment of the Anglican establishment in Ireland,
he was no longer prepared to diminish one tur-