The Express.
London, England, 1851-04-09 00:00:00

of the ben. baronet. The bin. baronet had said that the
affairs of Ireland were mot eared for in that house. Now
he (Sir W. Somersilk) had just taken the trouble to make
out a list of the ditfereut commissi,n, of inquiry into the ,
state of Ireland which had byre issued since the year 1810. !
1 He would ton go through that list, but he mh;lit state that
they amounted in number to thirteen. A large number of
committees of the 'louses of Loads and Commons had
been rim:minted on matters relating to Ireland from the
year 1%0 to the year 1841. These committees had em-
brazed every conceivable subject connected with the social
condition of Ireland. The number of questions thi v had
put bad amounted to many thous:mils, and the number of !
committees hail be m6l (Hear, 10,r.) flaying these 63'
committees to refer to, his boa. frie:eil (Sir Li. SN . Barron)
came forward sod asked for a committee of the whole house
to con.ider the state of Ireland. And what to consider ? Ile i
(Sir %L.. Montervill,) had listened with attention tothc szsech
tit the hon. baronet (Sir 11. W. Barron), Lot could not make
out from that spree.. one single idea as to what it was into
a birch they were to enquire. The hon. baronet (Sir 11. W.
1'....rr0n) had nut ant., them the slightest intimation as to
ti.e business of the committ e. Were they to launch out to
sea, as it were, with no object in slew, and silo every hon.
gentleman is the lious2 to propooe his own nostrum. (Hear,
bear.) Ile (Sir W. SJaterrille) hoped the h•Jusa would
asgatitra the pr0p0,..1.
Mr. ItEYN4)l.lts said that the right hon. baronet (Sir
W. Sr/ursine, had stated that he esta:d find no tamilL:
rnTition in the motiod of the bon. m. tuber fa Wirt..r-
(..sir 11. W. Harr en). lie (Mr. Iteynolds) had lint nod
to the speech which he (Sir 11. W. Barrios) had tr.ad..., and
he had the same f.ailt to tint!. (Near, hear.) Bat 11 (Mr.
It. ;molds) could nut forget, and the haws: coral not forgo:,
tLat the Secretary fur Ira land (S .r W. Somerville) hail in-
fo arid theist that this: yen committees had sat on the affairs
i.l Ireland.
__ -

Sir W. SOMEILVILLE.—Sixty-three.
Mr. REYNOLDS thanked hi hen. friend for having
multiplied it by eleven. (Loud anti coatinuttl laughter.)
He (. Ileyasulde) was sorry that he was a little *time in
Isis multiplication. (Renewed laughter.) Ile (Sir \V. So-
merville) had informed them that these sixty-three
committees hail a-kid a certain number of question..
lie (Mr. Reynold.) had forgotten the number, awl seould
therefore lave the matter to the right hon. baronet. (A
laugh) Let them ask in seher etriousuess what bsnefit
tires, tat committees, with all their qui sliest., had conferred
on Ireland? llad they put tiny additional clothes on the
backs of the people ? Had they increased their comforts
in any degree ? (Hear, bear.) lie (Mr. Beynolds) be-
lieved they had not ire any respect improved the condition
ci the people. (near, hear.) they ell knew that when any
griea once was to be shelved unit thrown reside the proper
way of get:ing rid of it was to appoint a committee, who
put a certain number of questions, and made u large blue
hook. (Laughter.) Now, he (Mr. Rey maids) hugged to
state that it was his intention to vote for the motion of the
bun. member for Waterton' (Sir 11. W. Barron), but
he wished to guard himself against approving of his (Sir 11.
W. Barron's.) speech. (Langhter, and ie hear, bear.") Rav-
in, adverted to his.niett Luiuu, Mr. thy-ileitis said, the
right boo. wanton:els had said that lreland showed signs
ui preonerity. lAshere did he find the evidence a f that
Pfusperity Mantilmtures had a anished from ire'-
hind; and their eiittuere: el trausavtious had declined.
The trade of Ireland was a acre coasting trade: she was a
mare lixter-shop to England. Irehmel manufactured
nothing fur Iseesif, and even was compelled to import the
east-off clothier of Erne:rad to supply her population.
(Hear, hear.) 'low could it he otherwise ? 1% hat had
th it house done to improve her condition ? lie found
nothing but acts to suspend the constitution, and acts to
emend poor law act,. (Hear, bear.) lie heard the hen.
baronet (Sir U. AV. Barton) expects !:ia regret that the
landlords had not garter power given them in the
administratiou of the pint law, notwithstanding
that already the unfortunate people were bomb tl
over to them bound neck and heels. (Hear, hear.)
The noble lord (Lord J. Itussell) had unrodueed
amass, into the Pour-Law Act increasing the number
of eat °fir, guardians, and making them equal to
the elected guardians, thow,,le preciously they were only
in the proportion of 3:1 per cent. on each board. (hear.)
Ile• noble lord also sanctioned a clause in the boor-law Act
which greatly opiate ...all the poor tenant. lie asked on what
ground. the government could justify their refusal to grant-
ing this committee. What harm could it do ? One good
that might be expected f.s,m it was, that the feeling
espresn-el in that house might compel the poor-law
authorities is Ireland to direct immediate attention
to the mortality that was occurring in the Eilzush and
Ennistv omit I.nions. (pear, hear.)
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL regretted that the committee
had been refused by her Majesty's ministers. Ile agreed
in a great mane of the otinvvatimer that bad fallen from
the how gentleman who hail just sat down. Nothing
could be more unfair than to attribute the distress* of !re-
lated entirely to the prevalent, of free tratk. (hear, hear.)
Ile believe.' that giving lacilities to the investment of
money in useful and productive works--1, a swipe wion of
the etandiug ordert of that house—newt' gist void em-
ploymeot and diminish pauperism in au lateness:degree.
Liovernment money was not required; they needed not a
Ppull at the exchequer." (Laughter.) l'here were railway
ill. before the home impeded by the et:toiling orders,
which allowed of the progress of no railway bill until half
the sulierrila el capital was paid up, which, if reminded,
would eta ourage many capitalists to came norward and in-
vest he:Ands of thousands, and thus diminish pauperism
and circulate capital. (lie or.) In voting fur the motion of
the houJianntet he (Mr. M. J. ()Turin L 1) should, however,
protest against the idea that Ireland was to be relieved by
a return to the ?stem of protection. (" Hear, hear," and
"Divide, divide. ')
Mr. W. S. CRAWFORD rase amid loud and repeated
cries of "divide." 11e thought if hon. members paid at-
tention to the evidence already bets the house on the state
of Ireland they would nut be at a loss to understand the
nature of the di-asters that prevailed in that country.
(Divide, divide.) 'the hon. baronet hail referred to the
repeal of the corn laws es the great cause of Irish distrsee;
and Metaureil the Late famine th..t visited that country.
But he (Mr. W. S. Crawford) would like to know how the
peopie of Ireland would have been saved tiering the pre-
Taken: of that famine were it not for the repeal of
the eon laws? Hear, hear," and " lie ide, divide.".)
nut remind the house that the disordered state of
the relathme between lan lineal and tenant was a fertile
source of toil in Inland. (So great a confusion here pre-
vailed that the suite of the hon. Number Was completely
drowned, and the Speaker was obliged to cull for order,
Ili should muse, as au amendment to the motion of the
hon. baronet, that the committee should consider the
means of ameitiling the law of kuidlord and tenant. (•• Oh,
tilt," and .• Di. ')
Kit 11. W. B.tItRON (if we heard the hon. baronet cor-
rectly through the mist) intimatedthat he did nut object to
the udilitioe. ((sheers.)
Lord J. lets ssELL said that the house, if they agreed
to the motion, and went into committee of the whole house,
would not have .any very clear remedy before them. The
proposal of the hon. traconet was that they should go into
committee of the whole house to consid,v the state of lre-
land, with a view to relieve the distress th, re existing,
and, as the hn. baronet argatal, to consider the laws re-
lating to the :altuissioa of foreign corn, tired to consider the
poor laws of Inland: because if they were to restore pro-
tection and repeal the poor laws of Ireland, they would be
in to flair wow to remedy some of the evils under which that
country suffered. 'file hon. baronet might remember the
report of a committee of the whole house not tending to
the repeal of the pour law, but rather to greater laxity
in its edministratima, and a more liberal system of re-
lief. Then, with respect to difference of opinion on
the question of protection, the house would see that the
hon. member for Dublin uaturagy opposed the course_pro-
parsed by the hon. member for 11 aterford. (Hear.) Then
the hon. gentleman who had just sat down, in turn pro-
posed and added a further subject of inquiry by way of
amendment, and proposed an investigation into the relation
between landlord and tenant—a must important subject of
Liquirv. (Lord J. linssieli) fraud if the house went
into this committee on the motion of the hon. baronet, he
would only final that his supporters would oppose every-
thing that Was proposed to the committee, and the house
would pass without any. remedy whatever. With respect ..es
the st 'nomad of his right hun. friend, the Secretary for
Ireland, he did not represent, as the hon. member for
Dublin s, 'met to imagine, that the state of Ireland was a
state of prosperity since 1545, but that that year was what
he was sorry to say was sutlicieutly obvious—a starting
point when in Ireland • although not suffering under the
calamities then endured there was competition beyond the
means of employ, that the labourers were without work,
that their abodes were miserable beyond those of the poor
in any country in Europe, that the food they ate was nut
derived from wages, but was almost entirely from
what they raised from the ground, when, under,
these eirceinetances, there came so dreadful a cola-
Inky its famine in the country. When a situation
so stated existed it was reasonable that many dreadful evils
would follow ; th it many persons were driven from their
homes totally unable to pay the rent they had theretofore
paid regularly from the flourishing state of nude potato
crops; that many emigrated in hope of gaining abroad that
assistance or employ that they could not obtain at home,
while many others fled to the law which existed for the
relic fof poverty, and sought refuge in the workhouses as
a last resource. Thome were the consequences, not of
any law of parliament, not of any act of government,
but the consequences of the state or society which
existed in the year 1811, and before, and the dreadful famine
which succeeded to those years. Ireland might not be in
a state of prosperity, yet there were now symptoms
of leis aggravated misery and distress than in fanner yeurs.
(Hear, hear.) Then there was out-door relief; at had
never been refused when it was absolutely necessary, but it
had lately diminished somuch that during the last three
months of the past year he believed that the whole amount
of coot did not exceed 1,0001. (Hear, hear.) And with
respect to other similar circumstances, it appeared by
various amounts from the country that scenes of absolute
distress were fewer than in former years. That was the
state of Ireland at present, and if remedies were required
by government and by the legislature, they were hardly
likely to discover those remedies by going into a committee
of the whole house. (Hear, hear.) His hon. friend had
suggested the going into committee, if only to consider the
application of private capital and the using of great private
exertion. If that quarter required attention, let it be
brought on as a separate question. (Hear, hear.) If the
relations of landlord and tenant required attention and
inquiry, let the hon. member, or some other hon. member,
bruss forward separately that question. (Hear, hear.) But
by the prepollal before the house they would be able to
&tide rnotli and no plan would be placed before
gym. ear, bear.
Mr. F. FRENC rose, amidst loud calls for a divi-
sivea and said he had no desire to detain them by enter-
Warboannydetads
member
. ofoirth4a?eureflicinhad3nuotthbeethn°fllyt
treated when it was alleged that he had put forward the