The Express.
London, England, 1853-07-08 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, JULY 8, 1853.

to say that I am net able to give him any specific informa-
tion. Ido not know by whose directiou or authority the
notice of postponement of the motion of the hon. gentle-
man was placed in the paper. I can, however, assure him
that whatever has been done has been done with perfect
"bona fides," and under the impression that he had consented
to tl.c arrangement. My right hon. friend the First Lord
of the Admiralty and myself are both is a position to state
that we understood from our colleagues yesterday afternoon
that the arrangement had been made with the consent of
the hon. gentleman, and whatever has Leen done has been
done in perfect good faith, and with no intention to inter-
fere with the liberty of the hon. gentleman as an indepen-
dent member of the house.

Mr. LAYARD—I should like to know by whom the
notice of postponement was placed on the paper. If the
government will show good mums for my doing so, I will
postpone my motion until Monday.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQtER—I under
stood the ground stated for the postponement was one which
the hon. gentlemen had recognised as a legitimate one, viz.,
the indisposition of my noble friend the member for Lon-
don. I believe it would be inconvenic nt to him to come
down to the house to-morrow, and that being so I thought
the hon. gentleman had agreed to the postponement.
Mr. LAYARD-1 shall not hesitate to put elf my motion
until Monday. It is only this that I complain of—that
before my answer was received the notice of postponement
had been given which has placed me iu a false position.
Mr. DISRAELI—I saw with gr.at surprise th;s change
in the order of the business of the house, not having been
informed that the hon. member for Aylesbury had given
any notice of postponement in the house yesterday, and it
appears to me to be an arrangement of the business of the
house by the government which requires sumo explanation
on the part of her Majesty's ministers. What secu-
rity have we for the orderly conduct of the
business of the house if notices of motion which have been
given are withdrawn on the part of members who are not
themselves present and who have not given their unction
to that course ? These is also an alteration in the business
consequent on the assumption that the hon. member for
Aylesbury had consented to this arrangement ; I mean tliat
the committee on the India Bill should be first on the paper.
I understood, not three minutes ago, that a motion similar
to that of the hon. member for Aylesbury had been post.
I poned at the request of' the government in another place.
The reason for postponement in that place could not have
been the indisposition of the noble lord the member for
London. (A laugh.) I think that as this is u question of
an importance which cannot be surpassed, there should
be a clear explanation of the matter, and •ome reason given
to both houses by her Majesty's ministers as to whether the
postponement would be for the public interest and conve-
nience.

Sir C. WOOD—I may perhaps be able to give a solution
of this matter, and I owe some apology to the hon. member
for Aylesbury. Yesterday in the middle of the day my
coble friend the member for London sent to me and stated
that he was so seriously ill that he was obliged to leave
town, and that he had written to the bun. member for
Aylesbury, stating that it was impossible for him to be in
the house to-morrow, and asking him to postpone his mo-
tion till Monday. It would obviously be very inconvenient
for that motion to be brought on in the 'hence of my noble
friend. My noble friend then asked me if it would
not be better to bring on the committee on the
India Bill. I come down to the house in search
of the hon. member for Aylesbury, but was unable to find
him ; but I felt certain that he would not decline to post-
pone his motion. It was, therefore, very desirable that the
earliest notice should be given as to what business would
come on to-morrow, end I asked my right hon. friend, the
Secretary at War, to give notice that the committee on the
India Bill would come on on Friday, and that the other
motion was postponed. My great anxiety was to give the
earliest information to the house, as to what business was
to come on. The house sat yesterday till within a minute
of 6 o'clock, and it was practically impossib:e to give that no-
tice in any other shape than by putting it on the paper. The
right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) is mistaken in saying
that the debate in another place has been postponed at the
request of the government. A member of the government
was called on to say whether he amid deny that mischief
and inconvenience would ensue• if that motion was

brought on, and on his saying that he could not deny but
that there would be some mischief and inconvenience, an.
other member of that house asked the noble marquis to
postpone his motion, to which he consented.

Mr. DISRAELI—I w'sh to ask the hon. member for
Aylesbury whether, if the noble lord the member for
London should be recovered on Monday, it is clearly to be
understood that he will bring on his motion.
Mr. LAYARD—Most certainly. I am not supposed to
be cognisant of what has taken place in the other house,
and unless good reason is given in this house to justify me
in the eyes of tbo country in withdrawn); my motion, I
shall bring it on.
The subject then dropped.
THE OBSTRUCTION OF THE DANUBE.

Mr. LIDDELL begged to ask of her Majesty's govern-
ment whether any instructions have been sent out by her
Majesty's government to inquire into the cue of British
vessels at present detained in the Danube owing to the im-
perfect state of the navigation of that river: and whether,
in the event of hostilities with Russia before such ships
can be liberated, a sufficient force will be sent out to
that part to prevent their falling into the hands of hostile
powers.

Lord PALMERSTON—The recent obstruction of the
navigation of the Salina month of the Danube has
been greatly increased by accidental circumstances
connected with the weather. The river has over-
flowed its banks, has increased its width, and
the force of the current being thereby diminished,
there has been an increased deposit of mud on the bar.
This is a temporary incoavenience which will cease with
the cause from which it has originated. I am, however,
bound to say that for some years past her Majesty's go-
vernment has complained to the goveramcnt of Rush" of
her neglect in the performance of her duty as the pos-
sessor of the delta of the Danube in not clearing the
Salina branch of the Danube. It was my duty when I
was Secretary for Foreign Affairs frequently to make re-
presentations on the subject to Russia. The Russian
government always admitted that it was their duty to
clear that part of the river, and admitted, as we asserted,
that as Russia by the treaty of Adrianople bad possessed
herself of the mouths of the Danube, it was her
duty to see that that great watercourse and highway
of nations into Germany was, under the terms of the
treaty of Vienna, kept free to.the commerce of all nations.
The Russian government did not deny, what we asserte I,
that it was their duty to remedy this inconvenience. When
the mouths of the river were in the territories of Turkey,
there were sixteen feet of water over the bar, but that has
been diminished, owing to the neglect of Russia, to eleven
feet ; and even that is in so narrow a channel, and, in con-
sequence of the quantity of vessels which have been
wrecked, and allowed to remain there, on that eleven
feet, it is very difficult for any vessels to pass
except in calm weather, and with a skilful pilot.
There were certainly local interests which have
thwarted the wishes of the Russian government.
There was, in the first place, n rivaiship on the part of
Odessa, which led locally to a desire to obstruct the export
commerce by the Danube and divert it to Odessa. (Hear,
hear.) There was also that little local interest which arose
from the private barfemen and lightermen being employed
to unload vessels which came down the Danube, so as to
enable them to pass the bar, and reloading them after-
wards when they had got outside. The Russian govern-
ment had promised to take the most efficient means, to
send a steam-dredger to clear away all the obstructions.
That steam-dredger came, and worked only two hours
before it was always put out of ear, and obliged to go
back for repairs. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) We
recommended the Russian government to panne a method
which the Turkish government had always acteil on
with success ; namely, to require every vessel that
went out to drag astern a good iron rake, by which
means the passage was kept clear. In addition
t• the representations which it was my duty to make when
at the Foreign-office, I understand that constant complaints
and representations have been since made to the Russian
government; and I hope that that government will
at last break through those trammels which have hitherto
impeded its proper action, and see that it is a duty it
owes to Europe to maintain free that passage which by
force of arms it has thought itself justified in appropriating
to itself by the treaty of Adrianople. (Hear.)

On our re-admission, we found
Sir W. JOLLIFFE moving as an amendment, that the
words "documents of the nature of leases, plans, court and
rent rolls" stand part of the clause. He took that oppor-
tunitT again to urge the govcrement to reconsider this
question of the production of deeds.
After some discussion,
Sir W. JOLLIFFE withdrew his former amendment,
and proposed to substitute for it a motion fur inserting in
the clause the words "only as are of."
The committee divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment B6

Against it
Me. WALI'OLE said they bad given the commissioner
power to call for the production of deeds, but in the next
lines of the clause it was proposed to give them authority
to take extracts from the documents. Nom, such a power
as that ought not to be conferred upon any man or body of
men, except under the severest and most stringent penalties,
and unless those precautions were taken he should object to
this part of the clause in tote.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
think this provision was absolutely necessary, and there-
fore, with the permission of the committee, be would
strike the words out.

The words were consequently negatived.
Mr. HENLEY objected to the words which required the
production of public books and documents.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was quite
ready to strike out that provision too.
Sir J. TROLLOPE—And of course the penalties for en-
forcing it?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—CertainIy.
The words granting the objectionable power and providing
for the penalties, were accordingly ordered to be struck
out. . .

Sir J. PAKINOTON said, although the objectionable
parts of the clause bad been modified, it was still a very
serious question whether pariiament ought to pass a clause
containing such provisions. (Hear, hear.) The clau'c ap-
peared to him tyrannical and inquisitorial beyond any that
he remembered to have heird submitted to the house. The
powers given by it were inconsistent with our national in-
stitutions, habits, and character, and a bill which could
not be carried out except by such moans ought not to be
passed at all. (Hear, hear.) Ho felt it his duty to divide
against the whole clause.
The committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the clause
Against it 9l-7
The clause was accordingly passed.
In clause 49, "giving power to accountable party to
appeal,"
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER proposed
an amendment, for the purpose of enlarging the power of
the judge.
Mr. LOCKIIART, who spoke in a low tone of voice, was
understood to propose that the appeal should be given to
the fudge of the County, Court.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
that the bill already gave sufficient facilities for appeal, but
if gentlemen opposite wished it, be had no objection to give
an appeal to the County Court. Ile believed that the ap-
peals would lie of very rare occurrence.
Sir F. KELLY was obliged to the right hon. gentleman
fur his concession, as he considered that the County Court
would be the most proper court of appeal.
An amendment providing the appeal suggested was in•
sorted, and the clause as amended was agreed to.
Clime 50 was agreed to, with one or two verbal emend-
ments. _

Clause 51 was egreed to.
Clause 62 was struck out.
Clause 53 was agreed to with some verbal amendments.
Clause 54 was struck out.
On clause 65, which provides that the bill shall: come
into operation on the 19th of May, 1853,
Mr. ISIULLINGS moved to omit the two last lines, in
order to insert the words " that the bill come into operation
on tho day of the passing thereof."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not
consent to the amendment. The question was one of
finance, and it was the usual principle in laying on new
taxes to make the tax came into operation from the day of
the passing of the resolution in committee. In some cases,
as in that of the income tax, they had gone further, and
made the tax apply retrospectively, beyond tke period of the
passing of the resolution. The amendment would deprive
him of two months of the proceeds of the tax, which he
could not consent to.

Mr. DISRAELI thought they ought to follow tho pre-
cedent of former taxes, and urged hie boo. friend not to
press the amendment.
The committee divided :
For the amendment l°s

Against it
The clause was agreed to, as was clause 66 and the
schedules.

Clauses 16 and 22 were struck out.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER brought up
the following clause:—Provided that no person entitled, at
the time appointed for the commencement of this act, to the
immediate reversion in any real property, expectant upon
the determination of any lease for life, shall be chargeable
with duty in respect of such determination, in the event of
the same occurring in his life time
Some discussion took place, in which Mr. Henley, the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, and Mr. Cayley took part.
The clause was then agreed to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER next
brought up the following clause:—" Section 16. No policy
of insurance on the life of any person shall alone create the
relation of predecessor and successor, between tho insurer
and aqiured. or between the assurer and any assignee of the
assured, and no bond or contract made by any person bona
fide for valuable consideration in money or moneys worth
for the payment of money after the death of any other per-
son, shall alone create the relation of predecessor and suc-
cessor between the person making such bond or contract,
and the person to or with whom the same shall be made ;
but any disposition or devolution of the monies payable un-
der such policy, bond, or contract, if otherwise within the
provisions of this act, shall be deemed to confer a M-
anion."

lii7FRESIIFIELD moved that the word " other " be
struck out before " person," so as to make the clause apply
to the obligor himself.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER resisted
the proposal, en the ground that it would lead to number-
less evasions. It would cause wills to take the form of
post obits.
The amendment was negatived without a division, and
the clause was then agreed to. the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, in answer to Sir F. Kelly, agreeing that the bill
' as altered should be printed before it reached its final

stags
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
brought up the following clause : "Section 22. Where tim.
bee trees or wood shall be comprised in any succession, the
successor shall be chargeable with duty upon his interest in
the net monies which shall from time to time be received
from any sales of such timber trees or wood, and shall ac-
count for and pay the same yearly ; provided, that if the
successor shall be desirous of commuting the duty, and
shall deliver to the commissioners an estimate of the net
monies obtainable by him from the sale of such timber
trees and wood, as may, in a prudent course of manage.
meat of the property be felled by such successor during his
life, the commissioners, if satisfied with such estimate, shall
accept the same and assess the duty accordingly."
Sir J. TROLLOPE hoped the right bon. gentleman
would expunge the clause altogether ; for it would add but
an infinitesimal sum to the revenue, and it would lead to
an immense amount of vexation and annoyance. (Cheers.)
Col. SIBTHORP suspected any modification proceeding
from the Chancellor of the Exchequer ; and ho looked on
the bill as altogether a groin robbery. (Cheers.) The
revenue returns recently published were all humbug and
nonsense, the object of the Chancellor of the Exchequer
being to deceive the public and to increase his reputation as
a financier. Hew did the right hon. gentleman intend to
deal with the copyholder, who could not cut down a tree
without paying one-third of its value to the lord of the
manor, besides a heavy fine ? Would he (the copyholder)
be on the gross sum ? If he were it would be •
pass robbery. (Laughter.)
Inaba muse of a further discussion,
Mr. BOOKER complained that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer did not appear to have taken into consideration
the care and attention which was required to bring timber
te a state of perfection. Timber, too, was of an exceptional
nature. Its growth ought to be suported fur the sake of
the " wooden walls of Old England." (Oh, oh.) The hon.
gentleman then proceeded to reed a letter from a friend de-
precating the proposed measure as disadvantageous to the
British oak. (Cries of " Oh, oh," and laughter.) During
the reading of the letter there were repeated cries of
" Name, name," and when the hon. member read the sig-
nature of " W. S. Wood," great amusement was created.
The hon. gentleman assured the house that it was no as-
sumed name, and gave the writer's address as " White
House, near Hereford."
After a few words from Sir E. DIMING,
Sit W. JOLLIFFE contended that timber stood on •i
different footing from every other species of property. He
proceeded to illustrate his position in a long speech, which
wee almost entirely drowned in vociferous cries of
" Divide."
The committee then divided—
For the clause
Against _ 179-16

In repljto an objection frost Mr. HEIM= respecting the
valuation of underwood,
The SOLICITOR•GENERAL odsi that he would alter
the clause so that it would read timber, trees, or wood net
being coppice or underwood.
Colonel SIBTILORP asked the hon. and learned gentle-
man to go a step further, and impose a tax on sawdust.
(Laughter.)
Mr. MILES said the wording of the clause would lead
to constant dispates between the successor and the tax-
gatherer as to the valuation. (Hear.)
Mr. I'. MILES was apprehensice that parties would
be called upon to pay the tax upon the not proceeds of the
wood, when it might happen the expense of cutting had
swallowed up all the proceeds.
Tke CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said in
that ease the party would neither pay the tax net would
he called upon to render an account of the sale. Ile
would be required to reader an Recount of his profits when
there were any, and upon these profits the tax would have
to be paid.
After some further discussion,
Mr. MILES thought that nothing under 30 years' pow&
should be estimated in the valuation, and proposed to add a
proviso to that effect.
Thc CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was
impos.sible for him to accede to those words. In Scotland
he had seen valuable timber not thirty years old.
Mr. C. BRUCE said, in his experience, wood which he
had cut under thirty years of age bad not more than paid
the expenses. (Rear, hear.)

Kr. DUNLOP mentioned a case in which 150/. a year
was derived from timber under 25 years old.
The amendment was negatived without a division, and
the clause agreed to.
The remaining clauses were then agreed to, the house
resumed, and the chairman reported progress.
NEWSPAPER STAMP BILL.
The second reading of this bill was fixed for this day.
PUBLIC-HOUSES (SCOTLAND) BILL.

This bill was read a third time, and passed.
COPIES OF SPECIFICATIONS REPEAL BILL.
This bill was read a second time, with the understanding
that it was to be committed pro terse, and reprinted.
MINISTERS MONEY (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion that the house go into committee on this
bill,
Sir J. YOUNG in answer to a question from Mr. MA-
GUIRE explained that the bill would abolish ministers
money as it at present stood, but that be did not expect that
the whole amount of tax would be remitted. Ile denied'
that any pledge had been given for the total abolition of
the tax. The bill would mainly exempt houses to he bunt,
would establish a commission to revise the rating, and
would give housekeepers, who were liable to rating, power
stsedemption on very favourable terms.
Messrs. Maguire, Sullivan, and Greg= severally ex-
pressed their disapprobation of the principle of the b"1 as
'stated by the right hon. gentleman.
Resolution passed, leave given to bring in the bill.
PUBLIC LIBRARIES (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
SALE, &c., OF LANDS (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. WHITESIDE moved the second reading of this bill.
Sir J. YOUNG approved of the principle of the bill,
but hoped it would not be pressea this session beyond its
present stage.
Mr. WHITESIDE could hardly understand any °Nee-
tion to this bill, and intimated that he should press it
forward. - _ _ .

After a fcw words front Mr. KEOG it and Colonel Dt sx E,
the bill was read a second time.
_ _

The Brecon Collegiate Church Bill passed through com-
mittee.

PARISH CONSTABLES' BILL.

• • bill The order for the CJIIIIMIttIe On this was read and
disch.aged.
CUSTOMS ACTS.

The report of the committee was brought up, and
agreed to.
CUSTOMS ACTS (ISLE OF MAN).
The house baying resolved itself into committee on
the resolutions for imposing customs duties on the Isle of
Man,
Sir J. WALMSLEY objected that this bill was an in-
fringement of the privileges of the Isle of Man, and with
the rights of property, and he hoped that unless the govern-
ment could show that they Ltd the consent of the House of
Keys and the people of the island, that the house would not
sanction the imposition of increased duties. Ile read documents
showing that the propcsition had not been submitted as
promised to the authorities of the island, and he com-
plained that provision was not made by the government to
giro to the House of Keys control over the tazcs
it was proposed to raise. This was an attempt to bring the
island, with the customs of the Isle of Man, within the
general customs laws of the kingdom for the first time, and
as this was opposed to the privileges and rights of the people
of the Isle of Man, he should, if the resolutions were pressed
at that late hour, divide against them.
Mr. J. WILSON said that the proposed bill was neces-
sary to remove impediments to the trade of the island, and
to prevent smuggling. Ile hed communicated with the
Lieutenant-Governor, and informed him of tho proposed

changes, and he had 'called the House of Keys together,
who had made certain suggestions in the bill which would
be founded on (heel resolution .e, end would be considered.

Sir J. WALMSLCY moved that the house do adjourn.
Mr. BOUVERIE • tid he could not do that while the
house was in committee.

Sir J. WALMSLEY would throw every obstacle in the
way of the resolutions, and moved that the chairman report
progress.
The gallery was cleared for a division, but none took
place, and the chairman having reported progress, the
house resumed.
The Stamp Duties Bill, as amended, was considered.
Thr Land Revenues Bill passed through committee.
The Spitallields and Shoreditch Improvement BM was
read a third time and passed.