The Express.
London, England, 1849-03-17 00:00:00

endeavoured in every way to 114900 the estimates,
sad rem
S. had beta sppciated to osasider the
elpmdbillPa. The goverameat, Oar inking their dams-
els] elatieesid. lave_ obliged to web the result
whatbelekles and se @sea es they mortared to
melestemald mks iminslionk they made to
estimeiss . Wks! the him weelleseas seld that
ha hews periods ilamotal statement was made earlier in
the year Ora was the mestim at present. he should to eolleet
that die Smash' parleys& are at as earlier period. Be-
hr, the dreg* made by lard Ahamem the gnash' you
began MI the dth of Jeremy, sew k began on the doh of
April. TM bon. gent/seem woo demise, wallet; ea
she amen minister of the mesas period to do
more than the imam =deter of isomer times,
bt eases M wen mew felled ea to state the dam-
dal peewee& el the year bakers it bad begun.
If the leamatlentsa reisived to the expmieme et the last
twelve or glees years, he wield net dad a stogie instants ia
which the beam wee stated before the estimates. No par-
ade end be mere snivels to Wed say preetied reduction
WS the gemereseemt. They were new esdeavourieg to
revisals, slam establiskoeuts, the estimates for which were
ant ea the table of the home, with a view to
sedastims la them. He was not anxious to lay
flan
sibre the lame till they had ascertained what reame-
d'sm were pandemble meristently with the efficient working
of time establishematt. He Moult it would be more sada-
holm that he shield state to the louse the probable income
and oxpeaditure when he felt Mindambled to do IP, thin
deat sheal4 take that coarse wen he could mot state
them with equal seeursey. They bad het n dated le
genera terms already. If that was all that his bon. Stead
reweised, owl that was an that he professed to require, then
he did aid me the nu. M his motion ; and is that sense he
ailed ma the beam to reject It, in order that they might fro
late eemnilles if supply. They could then, and not tell
Ztrepteantilistam whether the estimates they proposed
be dor net. (Hear, hear.)
Cal. SIBTHOSP said that, although be was disposed to
place bet little eadidence in the motion of the hoe. member
for Mattress, seeiewthat he always rippers& the govern-
ment, he amid. ails he his proposition on the present
Yr. 60BDEN said that the wawa given by the right
hon. gentlemen to the popped of kis hon. Mend was not a
Zlerisaa.MistileY..c the
ee hits.
impossible.gentleman
that
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
what he seated was that he could act give an accurate
account before the sth of April.
Kr. COBDEN—Bat when was the necessity of voting
the supplies before the 6th of April ? (Hear.) Eves if it
were Impossible to Fawns them till after that period, they
might at hod have an approximate amended es to the ex-
penditure sad menet of imams before the 6th of April.
(Hoar.) He wanted to have the whole estimate of expendi-
ture sad Weems before then, bat they did not get that.
They get the army, navy, and admire esti-
mates, but they had not got the anseellsamus
estimates yet. (Hear.) The right hoe. wisdoms* made
use of one argument which seemed to him to be very ex.
traordinary—namely, that they probably might be ie a mate
of war ; that the enemy's fleet might benei the mast—
(" No, ao " from the Chancellor of the Ezair.) Cier-
kW, the ho.. gentleman made use M that argument
(" Ifo„ no.") Sorely he did not minepressat the right hon.
gentleman.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—You do
indeed.

Mr. COBDEN could not Nohow he mitrspreeented his
right hoa.frtend, for he surely pat the possible caw of an
enem/Lrauveging the coast. That was the first argument
used him. It assumed that after 33 years of peace they
were a ttogo to war. This constant tendency of con-
sidering war as the unreal state of society was what he ob-
jected to. (Hear. hear.) At all meta, while they were at
peace, kit them have the advantage of peace. (Hear, hear. )
Let them lave at the beginning of the session the estimate
d what Me insets* and expenditure were likely to be. Al-
=he wisdleed that the affairs of the nation were dif-
hem those of an individual, inasmuch as it might
not be always in their power to confine the
expenditure of a Ration within its estimated income, yet,
even in the affairs of a nation, the expenditure must in some
measure be regulated by the income, because there was a
limit to the income of a nation. When the ea ion at large
was selling oat he a redaction of expenditure, they ought to
have the ease dad (stably before them; and if they had
the whets estimates before them, they would be the better
able to judge, by reference to the sources of income, whether
they seeld and vote the expenditure, than
they scull whoa they were in total ',novena where the
WOOS MY to come fem. (Hem) The right hon. gentle-
men Mew from fortnight to fortnight what the progress of
the income was—he knew what the progress of the excise
mad sate= wee. It appeared to him that it was for the
haw sad esuntry also to know as far as possible the state
of the stational resources. Surely there was nothing un-
reemaahle is that. He did sot propose to emberram
ent, or to throw any impediment or ine:avenienee
Erttairway, by refusing to vote money on account. He
hoped, therefore, his honourable friend would pews his
motion, and, if unsuccessful now, he trusted he would move
at smother time a substantive motion, that on all future °c-
ommons Delon me oats of supply an approximate estimate
should be given of the income sad expenditure of the
°matey. (Hear. hear.)

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that his
hoe. friend had misreproseutad what ha said—no doubt
unintentionally. He pat the ease of war merely as an
without the slightest Tarmac* to the prssent
or say other taw, to show bow inspowdblos It would be
audit certaia eiressulauese to carry oat the course proposed
for adoption by the hon. member for Montrose.
• • •

Mr- iiI7MII said that if the right hon. gentleman bad
read his resolution he would see that he did not ask for an
accurate ammot. Them was the instance of Lord Althorp
in 1834, sad, subsequently, of Mr. Ooulbum, for the course
he proposed.
The home then divided—For the resolution 4B
Against it
The house then went into committee of supply.
NAVY ESTIMATES.
. .

Kr. WARD aid that he isesenciWafficiently obvious he
deferred making say thermalleas is answer to the arecir of
the lee. Wean opposite Mk 11. Willoughby) till e com-
mend mak* his gmerel datemed to the committee. In
kis main einmatiems he (Kr. Ward) entirely concurred.
There was mash MA is the observation that if an use., in
the aaval ezpondihree me to neer perpetually from year to
year,the Modes maiimot fairly be reguded as Oast criterion
of the Missal eirpaditure, and that the Home of Commons
was set ailed to sail for an rxplanation of that excess,
Ist me and Se anew it to pass without animadvertion, if it
ommY met he ealithderily explained. The present was the
thith Me that be mend shoe he became Secretary to the
Atheheity, and he might say the first for which the present
hard were entirely reeponaible. There was first the exam
of 1111,1180 t for the year 18456. This must be considered rep
thee is the light of a eappiemestary veer than ea excess.
It was an Maim to the am estimator esuctioned under
maid almeaseranese by the Treasury, sad of which the
present Board of Admiralty knew nothing. The money
wee exptuod Ware the present government sum into
Mee, ant *elm. patisma apes*, Ina tire en Chancellor
of the Ithrheepen emit, he led we doubt,th assign midd-
en messes for thee mesa This, Is, the excess of
the year 1846-7, the peeinat Beard of Admiralty
sew eedy partially reemedble, broom the money wee
gad upon the enfilade of their pedeseesors in office.
Um ems the men of 1847-8, ammatine to 323,3871.—a
hey mem undoubtedly,
r and the lest h
sede Miek the remitt
Moil wen exclusively eopmedie. the weight of tha
he did not at all dedne to undersells. He M-
ite Jiree of the alplibill==:lo bum gentle-
spinet Ihis He
dotes of this GM be ...trawl ex
id spree he swileslyled. (Her, Marl
ee premed he the past el me
for
menthe, though sot to the moat which resulted at um
aid of the year. He stated in the house end more at large
%dere the emintittea that the mosso of this num were
three : the first was the halm in the wages et semarn,
whisk made a daemon to the wed Id 70,3341. the
semi wee that they had an avenge of 3,9% men mem ea
the heals Shea bad bent voted. (Hear, beer.) The mot
ea lie mead was 246,0001. in 1847.8, ee gemmed with
MUSK Ise Ors year 18467. The third mute wee es en
emit of vines* dothimg, and mensal Mee. The emu at
of that Mimes was 81110061. In Maths to die three was
the met of the asthma hattellem The mthede we this
heed was In the last husbmse esejestual, lemewe they
meld sot Mow bow many ame-Mould enter intothres batta-
lions se it was to be a
_purely Mammy mimes on the
pen of the rm. The list had beta Wed up
mods mere rapidly themose :cusp
grastamd. The
I=a tbes anwi ibe mesidered
take lb, Met rade el preemileg.
if dey made enesulemants at ease he their aripwieatims.
end sidling. The latter whir& was a met eagenstee
Item wadi be the lath be five years. TM teed mem es
this gmemi a IMAM If they eared in raped to them
dodged thillelleas lea. 14 only express his mirth bed I
the sisp to by than ma ealy in cadreV with the
Wine of the matey at the time. With to the but
came manydewiest. of emeartainty entered to it, beams
ma who entered the service three or four years age
might My be receiving their were in the marred fiusial
year; and the Admiralty Mad it extremely difficult to
deal with that matter. (Hear.) With regard to the mood
caste—the allowing • greater cumber of men In the boobs
than had tram voted—that he admitted to be the root of
an the evil. (Hear, bear.) The great thing to ha 'ended
against a any mores In the sunder of men. (Hear, bear,
tom Mr. Home.) He did not man that in the mete in
which his hos. Mind perhaps understood it; bat, as an
mats, it ma the mat Oleg to be gnarl .glut.
leased beard hod gins orders far a my Ilere rabic-
ties of men three needhs after they came Me uSis, Mee
them was an average of 3.436 shove the amber Me&
Batt us cam the Irish relief ernhe, the distathameas is
New Zealand, the Heir war, the dotweiss of ships to the
Rio de le Plata, the distunhansee In Claim and lessee, la
esserquesee of whisk the ememeadees et them statism felt
thawing aka he Meth the fall emplaned of their
semis. The mieber of men above the member veiled hr
1847-8 was es the Ist of March 5,300, the DM wreath
4.778 but math 8,717, and the knowing moth 4.134.
The einem scesseled with that single dams' At the
Irish amiss were Moen incelealatni. At cue period them
were as the men 1 flog-ship, 3 roseiviag-ships,B tiespeidp,
sad 31 steena-vessek /ionises end Males, 1 naval trumpet.
sad 2 sailing-frigates. There WINO bi di under w*
3,100 men, besides • Whiles of marines stalked at Spike
Used. lite pries of crab roes hem an averaged nth to
21, per ton, Meuse during the whole of that Mild paled
there was no seek thing as • return cargo to be ohniese.nerd
heights were emeqtaeutly doubled. All these ezpoeses had
gam to swell that excess for which the goeurnmeat
iftne jeilly held respoodble. No the
the tree-