The Express.
London, England, 1847-12-14 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 14, 1847,

•
theca at an beigissent period of the reap witlioit the hit
okedendleb, sad bat for his volts not a 1144 word would
probaWbe Lard asks& behalf. These who oink after
usea WOO Ira yak, whoa they behead the groat semi Mag.
Wessel Weeks whisk bad bogs ._..sled k Usk
is marry by ale Week% desteullest hug *Sr hid
acted fa reksottle tompstal amd kleki *Owe ef thei
labotmere—whigher their namte: LAW= ettemied ei
whether kro ik sidskes their wilidenainotrnstke
had been Ikea attar—and* key bed towards tYea
borne out the character whid the, eknweed to
of being a philanthevie legialataro apill a Chriti=gai
Amongst the unftwons acts which had bike rand oa the
@skeet of railways, only one was to be bond, the let & Shad
ef Vittoria, having especial reference to the labourers, and
that was one of repression. He bogged the house to re-
in ember that the present was not the oak of those who were
old and decrepit, sick and infirm, but of those who were
Wrong and powerful, and who would be able very soon to
avenge on society the evils they had received at its hauls.
In order to show what was the condition of railway la-
bourers, the kon. gentleman read extras* from the evi- ,
deuce of the Rev. J. R. Thompson, the Rev. J. Mason, Mr.
Rawllnain, Mr. Pomfret, and Mr. Chadwick, which had been
given before the committee, appointed at the instance of the
hon member for Kilmarnock, in July, 1846. This evidence
went to show that the habitations of the labourers were of a
most wretched description; that in several instances men,
women, and children, slept in the same room; that gross
immorality was the molt; that the high wages received
were rather a curse than a benefit ; and that fever and small- 1,
pox were allowed to make their ravages unchecked. Mr.
Chadwick stated that the truck system was most injurious'
to the labourers, and he knew of one instance where the I
contractors for a piece of wort would have lost by the work
itself ; but who made 7,0001. profit by the truck of boar
and inferior provisions. They lost 20 and 30, and sometimes
as high as 50 per cent. by the system ; at the same time
' that they were served with articles of an inferior descnptloa.
There was no regular system of spiritual instruction, said the
Rev. Mr. Thompson, and Mr. Chadwick mentioned the nes
of a man, who, haring received an injury of the spine from
which be could not recover, requested to have the scriptures
read to him, but was suffered to expire without receivingthe
least attention of the nature he so earnestly besought. They
had to deal with nearly 400,000 persons, and were they lobe
left in ouch a state ? They had not heretofore been treated
as the members of a civilised community. They had been
suffered to go from work to work, receiving high wages,
which they squandered in gratifying the wants which evil
habits engendered, and in a reckless course of improvident
extravagance, insomuch that their average age did not
exceed that of forty. He could not therefore suffer
the further progress of this measure, without
raising the voice of notice against the past, and
the voice of warning in reference to the future.
The hon. member concluded by giving notice that after the
recess he should bring the question forward in a substantive
shape.
Sir G. GREY said the subject was undoubtedly an im-
portant one, but as the hon. member bad given notice of his
intention to submit a substantive proposition on the subject,
he should defer his obeervations on it. He would only now
say that he thought the hon. member had, perhaps, over-
rated the power of parliament with regard to it. Very much
must be left in the hands of directors of companies, of con-
tractors, end of the gentry resident in the &strict; through
which the line passed.
Lord G. BENTINCK could not quite let his hon. friend's
charge against the railways pus without observation. Ha
ready did not think the devil wan quite so black as hie hon.
friend had painted him. It appeared by the report which
had been quoted that these very labourers were receiving
22a. 6d. per week wages, and he (Lord George) had heard
that the companies were at this very time contributing
450,0001. a year to the poor rate, or one-fifteenth of the
whole asseament of the country.
Mr. AGLIONBY believed that in many instances railway
companies had provided admirably well for their labourers.
Sir H. VERNEY expressed his gratification at there
being a probability of legislating on this most important
and interesting question.
The report was then brought up, when
Mr. STRUTT said be would state what were the amend-
merits be proposed to make in this bill. The first related to
the compensation to landowners. It was proposed to enlarge
the exceptions under the sth clause, so as to include all cases
in which companies had applied to parliament to make their
line, so that no parties concerned would be in any way. pre-
judiced by the passing of the act, but would have their re-
medy upon their contracta, either at law or in equity, as if
the act had never passed. Another amendment related to
service of notices upon the landowners, which must be posted
on the church-doors of parishes through which the lines
passed, as well as given through the medium of local or other
papers. There were some other amendments of minor im-
portance.
The amendments having been read,
Mr. HENLEY, who had suggested theta amendments,
expressed himself perfectly satisfied.
Mr. AGLIONBY, on the other hand, thought the altera-
tions would leave the bill an exceedingly clumsy piece of la
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
objections raised by his hon. and learned friend were met by
the provisions of the bill.
The clauses were then read a second time, and ordered to
be added to the bill, and the bill was ordered to be read a
third time to-morrow (thisSUPPLY.day).

gr. J. O'CONNELL sieved, as an emandmirt, that the
bill be read a third time that day six Imadia la delag so
it was not hishrontioa to detain thnlerige witit any log&
mod thesseatimes. In the filet Oreek hi nthite4 Warred
statement width his heed role tie Wier night le elk era to
then=israhleaggefatairt of Mr. Rpm. Of Limmel, as
• 0/0111••••• He had deserilled Mr. Ryan as a
guess der ems bight, end that his apgaintenent had been',
rods bathe Moth of. the rinteretrathes et the he: mambas ,
gee the ef.Thmenry, and at the instance of a edlg
This lest part of his statement
Wit was mistaken in ; he, therefore, now retracted it,
mai eopememed his sorrow that he should have made it. He
seat eddied to lay before the home a letter which he had
vessived from the Rev. Mr. McDermott, the parish priest of
Ibletherewa, to wig& he called the attention of those hon.
imerbre the bad bra me eery to cry down the Roman ea-
Erie dimly of bird open the idlest rumours. In
fhb Mr the rernend pulsar, with the most solemn
seireireisa, dried that du late Major Mahon had ever
bow eateresee, or his name mentioned from any chapel in
Sigehiretra or within twenty miles of it. He declared that
aisle metro hid not been spoken from the alter that
by gay aregegraetton could have urged the peasantry to
the amidera of the atrocious raider of that gentleman.
Re lied she a letter from the Rev. Mr. Hughes, of the
musty el Mayo, who denied that he had ever used the Iter-
ated which had been imputed to him, but which was that
of the local conservative paper published in Castle-Aar, whose
eider was to cast slanders upon the Roman catholic clew.
Oa the subject of the bill he should certainly divide am
home against the third reading, though he knew it woadbe
hopeless. The government would no doubt get their coereitm
bill by a triumphant majority, and he implored them now to
turn their attention to remedial measures and the relief of
the efaffetring population of Ireland. He warned them that
the didlaulues would be augmented by any longer delay. Ia
careberon he moves that the bill be read a third time this
direr month'.
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN seconded the amendment. There
Was no man in that house who would go further than ho
would for the suppression of those outrages which had pre-
vailed in Ireland, but he believed that this measure would
augment the evils complained of. It went to establish a
errs of espionage which would be productive of the
mart serious evils. He complained, also, that the bill
woad throw upon the occupying tenants of Ireland the
exposes which the increased oonetabulary would entail upon
the country. The present government had obtained office
by opposing a coercion bill for Ireland; and with what grace
should they new come forward and ask for such a measure
The relief which they had afforded to the people of Ireland
was lamentably insufficient, for, although large sums had been
expended for food, hundreds of thousands of the people had
died, who might have been saved if the government bad
adopted more judicious measures. As to the poor law, he
had predicted its fate ; be had said that the machinery of
it would not work well, and that prod iction had been
verified. He always had declared it would be ineffective,
and it was now proved to be so. It was true that one
million and a half of money had been expended as
an indemnity to landlords, but the grant mu of no practical
service in mitigating the general distress. Out of that
amount not mere than 31,0001. had been applied to relieve
the distress of the country. The landlords of Ireland had
been abused last session, and all the evils of the country
attributed to them, but now the blame was thrown en the
priesthood, and a clam of men had been grossly maligned
without whose efforts Ireland would have been in a state of
positive insurrection. The hon. gentleman proceeded at
some length to address the house, but the noise was so great
that he was quite inaudible in the gallery.
Mr. ROBINSON attempted to address the hones, but
Ina met by loud and reiterated cries of "Divide, divide,"
and was not distinctly heard in the gallery.
Mr. M. J O'CONNELL supported the third reading of
the bill. This wu • different bill to that of 1848; if it bad
been at all like it he would not have given it his support,
but he thought this a very moderate bill, and it inter-
fered as little as possible with the ordinary law.
The power of calling in arms was certainly unconstitutional,
but it was a power which had been exercised m Borland ;
and he rejoiced to see the government legislate for Ireland
as had been done for this country. (Hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT said he was compelled to speak ow this
question. He had presented • petition from Manchester,
signed by 20,000 persons, against this bill ; he must, there-
fore, state why he supported it. Had not the government
thought it absolutely necessary be was certain it would not
lave been proposed. The cue for the bill was complete ;
the ordinary law was utterly powerless. In England the
people generally supported the law; but in the disturbed
districts of Ireland the public sentiment was so utterly de-
praved and vitiated that the law was deprived of its force.
(" No, no.") He maintained that it was so. Many
of the murders that had been committed were
not regarded as assassinations, but rather as execit•
lions. In the ease of Mr. Lloyd the murder had
been committed most deliberately. Extraordinary powers
were clearly remeired.w yirhether the present bill would be
effective he could not say. Be feared the government had
not shown the necesury courage for dealing with the condi-
tion of Ireland. The recent poor law was certainly a most
advantageous measure ; and the noble lord at the head of
the government had power to pass any measure that he
might propose through that house. He blamed the Irish re-
peal members fur not having themselves brought forward
the remedial measures which they thought desirable. He
had in Vet. yet kaown those members bring forward and con-
sistently support any measures ; or, doubtless, they might
have tarried them. (Hear.) He would not imitate their
example, but suggest some remedy. He ascribed all the
evils of &lead to idlenms ; if it could be ascertained, he be-
lieved it would be found the people did not work more than
two days a week. Hence Ireland starved, and consequently
rebelled. (Hear.) This could only be prevented by setting
their industry in motion, for their idleness was not their
own fault ; they were able and willing to work, and, when
at work, were as ready as Englishmen to keep the peace.
(Hear, hew.) The means of employment were extremely
small in Ireland ; there were few large towns or
manufactories ; end in' the tomes of the south and west
groups of 20 or 30 were to be constantly seen standing idle.
This gave rise to annual emigration, by which large mule
ben of the peasantry were drafted off to other countriesA end
thus the means for producing wealth were abridged. (Hoar.)
He doubted whether tenant-right would be • beneficial mea-
sure. The house would never consent to such a assesses r
the hon. end learned member for the county of Lissa&
wanted. What was most needed was a measure empower.
tog the sale of encumbered estates. Why was it not ready ?
Load J. RUSSELL : It has been reedy several weeks.
Mr. BRIGHT wished to know, then, why it had not
been brought forward ? Government ought not to wait till
they were urged to introduce certain measures. In his opi-
nion much evil had resulted from the conduct of the land-
owners. The incumbranoes on the estates were wholly un-
paralleled in this country. In the Freeing*. of Connaught,
he understood, not 5 per Sent of the land was under settle-I
meat, and not 1 per cent. was free from mortgage.
Such being the case, it was idle for the house
to go further in pursuit of the evils of Ire-
land ; and the longer a remedy was delayed the greater the
criminality of the legislature. It was impossible for the
government to benefit Ireland by lending landlords money
at 34 per cent. out of the taxation paid by the inhabitants
of this country, who were borrowing money at 8 per cent.,
Let a measure be passed for simplifying the titles to estates
in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Let government also diminish
the stamps and other expenses which hindered the transfer
of estatss,• and let the meter of. entail be for ever pat sr
end to. (Hear, hear.) his would be done in England at
some time; in Ireland it was absolutely necessary now.
The absurd system of entail and primogeniture sacrificed the
living to the whims of the dead; if the system were applied
to personal as well as landed property, the country would be
thrown into inextricable con( on. Some might say that
the system was necessary to maintain the existing arisen
I critic arrangements. But rather let such arrangements
perish for ever' than that a whole country should be in the
state in which Ireland was now found. Did the aristocracy
rear up their sons with proper habits of industry and jest
notions of their property, the system of entail would
become unnecessary. Whatever government did for In-
land, it would be wholly unavailing, unless it rested es
the bender= of doing away the fetters of the land. Bore
boa, member might think they had an interest in
up the maims ; but it was no such thing. He ...rat:
scanty noeshire) which had been overrun with the pea-
petrol and pestilence of Ireland, and he r rested against
the continuance of arrangements by which reek thrill are
occasioned. Toe present parlilunent was composed very
largely of men of budges • the present government was
reentially one of the islaile ars; and if they would grapple
mortally with the gaga of the teed in Ireland, they woald
be suppeeted by the bore, erg wain lay the foundation of
IY prosperity. (Fem,
_hear.) lb should support this
aces• breams V the pigment law was powerless,
simeiting lieggiverment had NM sooner brought forward
remedial emegeree, end believing that if this was not dome
coon it would be Ismailiae for any government long le
stand. (Cries of" Divide.")
Mr. HUMS viler to as the noble lord at the head 1111
the government when the bill for regulating the relation of
landlord and onset would be laid before the house
Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to say that last 8.1116111
the Landlord and Tenant Bill had pined the other Immo,
and that it would be introduced again after receiving eel-
Va amendments.
I Os D. HALL row amidst loud cries of " Divide." Res
Slag Mom extracts from the Freeman's Journal, to slaw
list the "committee of national deuces and national safety" '
had given in their adhesion to the bill when it was first in-
lemireseL With regard to the measure before the house, he
throgle it had been shown, during the progress of the de-
bar, that there was an 'bateau necessity fur it. (Cries of
"Divide.") As he saw that the house was anxious to go to
• division' he would content himself by making &statement
width he had received from Mr. Roe, the brother of the
Marwhi had been murdered. The hen, gentleman
am ted that the allegat one which had been made by 1,
Mr. lagglestane, in the letter referred to by the hon. end
ladedmamba for Limerick, were contradicted in all the '
hree days afterwards. That contradiction was
lie known to the hon, and learned gentleman. Bei
iii
mho age iLoughnene? He was a person who had bra
• paella works, and and was known, as what la
=age ge ikMek a " gutter agent." Did the hon. 11111,
limed peatlesma know that a very near relative of this fr.
tilleidual was now in prison on a charge of murder ? •
The house then divided—For the third reading 173.
Against l4-11/
Oa the melba of Sir G. 011XY some verbal emendators'
INNS aped tr The bill then pined.
• RAILWAY LABOURERS.
On the motion that the order of the day for the bringing
,up of the railway report be read,
Mr. A. STAFFORD said he rose for the purpose of bring-
ing under the notice of the house the conditim of the la-
boured employed in the construction of those railways whose
claims had been most shamefully and dangerously neglected
durieg the whole coulee of their legislation on the subji et of
railways. They were now about to dismiss great numbers of

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the Exemeausta
the committee of supply was postponed until Friday next.
PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion of the CHANOILLOR of the EXCHWAITER,
the Public Works (Ireland) Bill went through committee.
Mr. F. FRENCH, on behalf of Mr. J. R. Hamilton, moved
the addition to the bill of the following disuse And be
it enacted, that the word ' treasurer' shall, as to the county
of Dublin, mean and include the ' finance committee,' and
the word maim' shall, as to the said county of Dublin,
mean and include the presenting term,' and the words
' county surveyor' shall, as to the said county of Dublin,
mean and include the' district surveyor ; and that the pro-
visions of an act, passed in the seventh and eighth year of
her Majesty's reign, intituled ' An Act to consolidate and
amend the laws for the regulation of grand jury present-
ments' in the said county, and any act for amending the
same, shall, with reference to the raising, applotting, levy-
ing, and recovering of grand jury cats, so far as the same is
applicable, apply as to the said county of Dublin, to sums of
money to be presented and raised under this act."
The motion wan agreed to, and the clause was added to the
bill.
Sir R. FERGUSON moved the insertion of the following
clause "Whereas, under an act pared in the firm
year of the reign of her present Majesty, Intl-
tuled An Act to provide more effectual means to
make treanurees of counties and counties of cities fa
Ireland account for public moneys, and to secure the
same,' it was enacted that every treasurer then in Mice,
and no other, shall have and receive the interest due on Ex-
chequer Bills purchased from any balance standing to the
credit of such treasurer's account, so that such interest does
not exceed one half of the salary appertaining to his office ;
and whereas it is just that such treasurer and the bank
which the grand jury of any county shall have appointed for
recovering the public moneys of such county should be
allowed interest on sums paid and advanced under this act,
be it therefore enacted that the officer whom the Lord Lieu-
tenant or other chief governor in Ireland has authorised, or
may hereafter authorise, to audit and declare the accounts
of the treasurers of oouaties in Ireland, may, and he is
hereby required, on being applied to by or on behalf of any
treasurer entitled to receive interest under the said act, or
of any bank having made any advance above the balance at
the credit of such county, to ascertain the amount of inte-
rest at the rate of M. per cent, which would be due to such
treasurer or bank on the amount no from time
to time unpaid, from the time or times at which such
money shall have been paid by the treasurers of such county
until the same shall have been discharged, or until the first
day of the assizes next succeeding suck application, and to
certify the same to the secretary of the grand jury ; and it
shall be lawful for any grand jury to present to the said
treasurer or bank such interest so certified to be due, which
interest shall be mild to such treasurer or bank out of any
balance in hand, and shall be raised and levied off the barony
or half barony liable to pay such sumo"
The clause was agreed to, and added to the bill, which was
reported with amendments, and the report ordered to be re-
ceived to-morrow (thin dam).
NEW ZEALAND.
Mr. LABOUCIIESS rose to ask, pursuant to his notice,
the permission of the house to introduce a bill to suspend
some of the most important provisions of an act of parliament
pawed at the close of the session last year, to make provision
for the government of the colony of New Zealand. Thom who
had paid any attention te this important colony would
remember that in 1816 it had been, with the general concur-
rence of all parties, thought exceedingly desirable to intro-
duce a constitutional form of government into that colony.
There had been petitions from the inhabitants of New Zee.
land presented to that effect, and the subject had been urged
upon the government by the New Zealand Company ; and
he, also, thought that in the discussions which had taken
lace in this and in the other house of parliament, all the
leading statesmen of this country had expressed a desire that
a beginning should be made to introduce a conetitutional
and ri presentative government into that colony. Such was
the state of things when her Majesty's present advisers came
into office ; and his noble friend, who now held the seals of
the colonial department, at once applied himself to this
important subject. his believed that his noble friend
found iu his office a record of the determination of the pre-
ceding government to introduce some measure of that
description, and, accordingly, at the latter end of the year
1846 a bill was primed almost unanimously by both houses,
by which her Maim y was empowered to grant a charter,
and to issue instructions which were to regulate the future
government of New Zealand. The main provisions
of that act, and of the letters patent issued under it,
were to the following effect :—The colony was to be divided
into two provinces—the one to be called New Ulster, the
other New Munster; municipal districts were constituted,
with town councils in all those pars where any considerable
number of Eoglish colonists had assembled. Them were
made the nucleus of a system of provincial government, and
were to elect representatives in the legislature of each of the
provinces. There was also to be a general assembly for both
provinces, the members of which were to be elected by the
two provincial assemblies. This act was to take effect as
soon as the letters patent were proclaimed by the governor of
the colony. Such were the instructions which bad been sentout,
and he must also mention that with regard to the very diffi-
cult part of the subject—namely, the condition of the abo-
riginal inhabitants of the colony, it was proposed to be treated
. and settled in the following manner it was suggested that
the municipal districts should only comprise those parts in
which there were settled a considerable number of white in-
habitants, and that those great tracts of country occupied by
the aborigines should not be brought immediately within
the scope of those institutioes. It was thought that the
aborigines were not yet ripe for institutions of that kind,

while, on the other band, the difficulty of subjecting them bad curly understood Lord Grey's despatch, a---;--.---.."1,,,,*,.
to the authority and anted of the white population woo Palmer) understood it, to deny all further territorial
1
It had been endeavoured to provide for that die. to the natives; and with this view the bishop aCd
salty, by securing to the aborinises the enjoyment of sionaries could not do other than proteat against the prigosa,t4-"
dads own laws and customs in those parts of the Mr. HUME regretted when he first saw it - no•""•
missy sot included in the municipal districts, and that government Intended to repeal that portion"( ase—"',e,
by proventing the representative assembly from inter- of last year which extended self-government to the° —""
twins with their rights, laws, and customs. Such, but, on looking at the papers which had bees 'del
thee, was the outline of the scheme sent out to table, he must admit they fully warranted Mtge Kne
the Governor of New Zealand. The reasons which is- course they had taken, The reasons assigned be —'•
to say, had tlins,,,;
dated her Majesty's government to promise now to Grey for such a step were amply Refitment. (11e* )
suspend the operation of this constitution were contained in conduct of the bishop, he was sorry
the despatches which had been received from Governor new element of difficulty in the government of the colony
-
Grey after the beet consideration he had been able to give to He believed no document had ever 'aeen laid before yacht,
the plan of the government. The opinion of Governor Grey ment in which a bishop or clergyman had stood up and 4,,,r--
ought to have the greatest weight with the house and the hely bearded the governor of a colony, and declaredle.7"l„
government. Any person who had pertued those dominate would dispute the orders, not of the governor only, bar*
would acknowledge that Governor Grey had given valid the Secretary of State for the Colonial department. (H,,,0
reasons for not promulgating. the new constitution. Hies It had been laid down that the natives had no right of i,,,e'
main objection rested on the intelligence of the aboriginal perty except in the land they actually oteupied. This e,,,e_r'n
population, and because It was left to the whim population, eiple the bishop opposed, and preached to the savener''',M.
who were the minority, to make laws and to impose duties they were entitled to all the laud in the colon,. The ...wk.- -"••
which would be mainly paid by the aborieinal inhabitants of of England were, in fact, paying a salary of 001 :nee-7e
the island. From this he stated that dissatisfaction would this bishop to be a firebrand in the colony. etc id ee,ent
be created, and tumult and insurrection would be the puts the high qualities the right hon. gentleness-rite 7
consequence if the white inhabitants had conferred upon Gladstone) had ascribed to Bishop Selwyn, bat tele:
them the power of tithing the greet body of the population. (Mr. Hume) it appeared the rev. gentleman had eiee,e,--:
His noble friend at the head of the Colonial-office, on re- but common sense. (" Hear," and a laugh.) He-'—"'
ceiving these despatches, had not hesitated as to the course advise the government to remove hint as soon as watt{7.
1 which he felt it his duty to recommend, and had joined in a better climate, or, at all events, stop his salary. They;
thinking that the peace of the colony ought not to be risked gentleman who last spoke had referred to the services**.
by prematurely, and without due deliberation, forcing the missionaries and their successful efforts in col° nine N--ee
new constitution upon the inhabitants. Lord rey thought Zealand; but, if he was rightly informed, the aural mon'
it hie duty to recommend to his colleagues at once to suspend sionary Society had intimated to their missionaries nit-.
1 the operation of the law. When he said suspend the set, he Zealand that they were forgetting their duties is
meant only a puttee of it, for that part of it which provided proprietors of laud instead of preachers of the
for the framing of municipal institutions for the purposes of would appear that, whatever other virtues the I:Th 1 n
local government, it was thought might be safely retained. pressed, they had not the virtue of self-denial ; for an
was proposed, therefore, to leave untouched that part of had absorbed to themselves, be believed, 96,030 ecru Oka'
the bill which related to municipal institutions with only an —(hear)--and, having done so, they disputed the right d
alteration of the qualification. The qualification for a voter ethers to acquire land, and stirred up the interes to mitt
in the municipal districts was, the possession of a house any attempt on the part of others to obtain it. He Wind
and the capability of reading and writing in English. the disputes with the natives which had resulted in nine
But it was found that although most of the elm- of so many English lives, were owing entirely to the
rigines could read and write, it was in their own of the missionaries, and that to them alone were to hess,'
language, and there were also foreign settlers, German and crihed the hatred and disgust which had been engeadeetai
French, who could not read or write in English. It was the minds of the natives to the Settled rule. Thereon's*
proposed, therefore, to modify the qualification, and to little hope for peace in the eels:ley, while these miedswebk
enable the governor to give certificates to those who pole with the bishop at their head, were theorises
messed the requisite tenements, whether foreigners or abra against the governor; and for his part thegsvua
riginee. The principal provisions of this hill were firstly to aunt at home would make Governor Grey dictator, nee*
suspend so much of the lamer act, letters patent and in. succeeded in putting down their opposition. (Hele, s**.
structions relating to the legialative assemblies for five yeses,, and s laugh.) At ad events, he trusted that what kegs'
and to re-enact the legislative council of 1840, giving power tarred in New Zealand would be a lessen to the goveOtdl
to the governor to add to their number. These legislative not to send out any more bishops to our colonies. (Hem)
councils were to be in each of the tee provinces, elan rby Mr. CARDWELL hoped that in solving the chest
nomination or election. The part relating to the municipal problem of how far constitutional institutions wen apple
institutions to be retained, with power to the governor to cable to • mixed race of aborigines and settlers, the No.
enlarge the franchise by certificate. This measure gave a vernment would not take their instructions from the
very large die-lotion to the governor, but he believed that, honourable member for Montrose. Constitutional liberty
under the circumstances, it was the wisest and safest comae would he at an end in the colony if the bishop were
to adopt a simple schema, leaving to the governor in council not to be permitted to *darns a firm and respectful
&large discretion. A complete narrative would be found in remonstrance to the Secretary of State epeeist say
the papers before the house of the circumstances which led act of the government of the colony. He could assure the
to this determination, and the reasons which induced hon. member for Montrose that the fear of losing the 6011,
Governor Grey not to promulgate the charter, ea well as a year allowed him by the House of Commons wooled at
those of Earl Grey, in proposing this course. It was deter Bishop Selwyn from acting in accordance with diet
intended to promulgate the charter in New Ulster, he felt to be his duty. That right rev. gentleman repressed
but the government thought it better to suspend altogether a body of persons of whom all who had held the ones d
for the present the introduction of these institutions rather Secretary of State had spoken if, the highest term. It
than to carry them out in part of the country. The hon. must be remembered that we obtained New Zealand by
gentleman concluded by eulogising the wise government of treaty, which treaty was negotiated by the minimums.
Governor Grey, which had caused great improvement in the We had ostentatiously disclaimed the right of sovereign' ty
colony, and expressed his hope that New Zealand would over the country. The quesion was debated by the New
become a valuable addition to the possessions of thisconntry. Zealanders, when the matter was proposed to them whether
Mr. GLADSTONE agreed, almost without exception, in they should or should net make the treaty—those sobseverything that had fallen from the right bon. gentleman. would have dissuaded them from it, arguing that the aim
e object. The New Zee
regard hto what had been said of Governor Grey, he was to deprive them of the land ; but the missionaries ea
would only re-echo the expressions of the right bon. gentle-
cured them that that was not t
man; and he adopted the language of the right hon. gentle- lenders, in their own leieguage end peculiar mode deeper.
g
man with regard to the natives; and be rejoiced the morn ing their ideas, said, nWe quite uudermand you , the shadow
at whet had been said by the right hon. gentleman, because of the land goes to Queen Victoria, and the substance
there had not always been a disposition in that house to remit', with us." It could not be denied, eeeie the pen
recognise the qualities of the New Zealanders. If that house they had had in negotiating it, that the masionanes had the
could show towards them that paternal care and tenderness full right to tepees their sense of the treaty of Waitangai,
which it was tkeir duty to show towards them, he could not but and to protest spina any infraction of it.
think, even after all that had happened, from the intelligence Mr. AGLIO:s BY said that several euggersted statements
which had been lately receivedethat there was every hope had been made respecting the Bishop of New Zealand. Hs
that they would yet witness a satisfactory termination to the could only say that he much regretted the protest which led
enlightened labours which had been bestowed on New Zwo been issued by that right rev. prelate. There was a reg
land. The right boa. gentleman said that the late govern. deal of difference between the rights and privileges of Ass,
ment intended to give a free constitution to New Zealand, and the mode in which these rights awl privileges were as.
It was true that they did so intend ; but there was a differ- ereised. (Hear, hear.) He was ex.remely sore 7 that the
ends of opinion between the late and the present government bishop had thought it consistent with his duty mid episne,g
as to the speediest mode o' effecting it. It was their opinion character to threaten to ono
be
the naive Welled'',
that any step which should be taken to bind the hands of them what he conceived to be their rights, a course tbs ger
Governor Grey would be a measure not only ill-advised but effect of which could be to estrange them from the games
would lead to a loss of the time it was intended to Save. He ment and the settlers. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the
' (Mr. Gladstone) thought it would have been better if Earl church missionaries, all who bad perused the puffs
Orey had deferred more to the opinion of Governor Grey, watery report must be aware that they did cot deserve the
and not sent out instructions which were not suited to the exaggerated praise which had been bestowed on thee kin
circumstances of the colony. With regard to the bill intro- course of that debate. They were not all of that nursed
duced by the right hon. gentleman, he (Mr. Gladstone) and standing which properly belonged to missionaries albs
thought that a ease bad been made out for it. The reasons church; on the contrary, many were extremely ignored,
which ieduced it were of specialise nature' and he thought the and some had shown themselves by. their conduct hs Is
hams should refrain from a detailed discussion upon it tainted with persousl maim. wholly Incontinent with**
th.i the measure had been some time in their hands and had clerical character. (Hear, bear.) It shoul.l be secelbeld
ban well considered. As he (Hr. Gladstone) understood also that when a Walley= missionary became a pureeing
it, it put the whole power of establishing the representative of land he was immediately recalled. (Hear.) How MI
government in the hands of the governor. Those were ex- the church missionaries conducted themselves ? It ass a
sdiaary powers; but he would grant that there never was matter of notoriety that they had purchased 96,000 anted
• man into whose hands they could be better entrusted, lend. (Hear, hear.) A juentication of this course hid
and there never was a case of rester diffienlty in been attempted, on the ground that it was nesesep
ing at a distance an which more required they should provide a maintenance for their families; Ina M
=knowledge. Everything which would allow local believed the feeling was very general that they had tred
knowledge to prevail over distant and speculative greased the reks of the church society. The aborigine, be
plans ought to be done. He wished to say a word admitted, were an active and intelligent race ; but neitbet
withsegard to a despatch of Earl Grey, »lat. to the des- did they deserve the high 'Weigh= which they mad received.
demilif public lands in New Zealand. In the Degenmag of It should not be forgotten that during the war they hid
desedelon he asked if the government would lay on the slain and mutilated their prisoners for the horrible purposes
Idle tee despatch of Earl Grey in December 1846, of cannibalism. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the bin
ayieially that part of it which related to the dim before the house he was quite willing to concede the powers
ai. of lands. He found in the papers which had given to the governor; and all disputes between the settles
Cn delivered that morning an acknowledgment by and the company might be safely, in his opinion, left to Ma
Governor Grey of the receipt of that despatch, but no arbitration of that functionary.
reference to that portion of it relating to the disposal of land, Sir E. BUXTON was of opinion that the Bishop of New
He concluded that, if it had arrived, it would soon be laid on Zealand had done his duty, and nothing more. (Hey,
the table, and, if not, it would not be long before it did. Vie hear.) He (the bishop) had come to the conclusionlhai
(Kr. Gladstone) thought that portion of the despatch was of the government intended to trample on the treaty d
great importance, and he read with great misgivings with Waitangai, end it was his duty, therefore, to inform the
respect to the mode or applying the doctrines laid down in it. natives of their rights, and the mode in which they might
The despatch of Earl Grey, which closed the papers on the constitutionally obtain redress. He trusted that the right
table, referred to the protest of the Bishop of New Zealand, rev. prelates exertions, and the good feeling of the people of
in which he assumed that the despatch of the noble lord in England, would cause that treaty to be respected in all
relation to the disposal was at variance with the treaty of esserdialPointe
Waitangai, and he protested against it. A protest of this Mr. PLUMPTRE was willing to admit that the ins
description, in its first aspect, seemed to be a gratuitous and enemies had gene somewhat beyond bounds, but then they
wanton interference of a spiritual person in civil had families to support ; and it should be recollected that
&friars. But, on examination, it would prove not a thousand acres of land in New Zealand was a eery din
to be so, and the character of the Bishop of New ferent thing from the same quantity in England. There
Zealand was such, that he was not so disposed to interfere, might have been something wrong, but mail it was hardly
but was more inclined to attend solely to his spiritual tune- fair to treat with such seserity men who had proved thew
noose and to shrink from political affairs ; that in this in- selves ready to sacrifice their lives in the cause in which they
MEN the clergy were chosen as the instruments by which had embarked.
dr treaty of Waitangai was carried out. It was only by Mr. LABOUCHERE said he had net the honour of a
their means that the governor could held real and extensive personal acquaintance with the Bishop of New Zealand, but
ktercourse with the aborigines, and the governor did commit from all he had beard he believed the right rev. Prelate
1 the conduct of the treaty to them. It therefore became the to deserve ell the encomiums which had b en
geed
duty of the bishop, as their head, to see that the public upon him. Still, be must regret that the bishop
faith conveyed through them was strictly kept. In hie de- should have addressed a formal communication to
&patch, Earl Grey expressed no doubt of the sincerity of the the gorernor announcing his intention to use all legal
bishop, but he also expressed his fear that the language of and constitutional measures to inform the natives et
his protest was such as ought not to have been ad. their rights and privileges as British subjects, and to is
dressed to a people so lately emerged from barbarism. strut them in their maintenance by all legal and consider
This was evidently not a protest nude public in the colony, tional means. (Hear, hear.) Why, this was informing
but addressed by the bishop to the governor, as a person for them that he differed from the executive government,
whom he had every respect, and whose authority he was and also tempting them to petition the crown. He
most anxious to rapport. That being so the bishop was not must say, that in his opinion this was a men
open to the charge, made by Lord Grey, of addressing tuft- unfortunate step on the part of the bishop. It
ing language to a people easily excited. He hoped the hon. was impossible for his noble friend to abstain from es
gentleman opposite would state whether this protest had not pressing, in temperate and respectful language towards the
been made in the way he had stated. Into the merits of the bishop, but at the same time in that firm and decided low
question he would now decline to enter. After the recess, gunge which was due to himself and to the situation Is
he hoped a day would be fixed for giving to the measure the held, his deep regret that the bishop should have announced
full consideration which its importance demanded. his determination to such an effect. There was a formal see
Mr. V. SMITH regretted that the annuity should have nouncement on the part of the bishop to begin • course el
arisen for another direct interference with the colony of New agitation. (" Oh, oh.") What was it in common langur
Zealand. This colony was the one most congenial to Eng- but agitation, that a bishop should tell the people to get ay
nehmen, and therefore possessed peculiar interest for the peftee an
to d to lay them before the crown. (Hear law.)
legislature. However much praise might be due W respect the question whether any other doeimenle
to the governor, parliament could take none to itself; ha n written on the subject, and whether Gopher
for this bill was an admission of their put neglect. A bill Grey had expressed any opinion with regard to it, 11
had passed the legislature in 1846, almost without discussion- begged to reply that there was no other papers on alts
In December last the Colonialmffioe had began to act on this subject in the colonial office beyond what were contained Is
constitution—which now turned out to be wholly iaapplicin the book on the table. He believed that the right hon. geo
bla to the eirmimstances of the colony—although it had been tleman opposite agreed in the abstract opinion of his noes
promised that it should not be enforced until it had received friend respecting the tenure of land. If the right hon. gm
the approbation of Governor Grey. Mutest as Noon as the nem= looked at the papers, he would find thee it we
bill had passed there arrived from New Zealand a protest scarcely possible to guard the accredited rights of the natives
against the measure by the inhabitants of Nelson, denouno- more scrupulously than his noble friend had done. The
ing the meatiere as one based in utter ignorance of the bishop was not junified thee is saying that his noble nisei
colony. As it was now proposed to suspend the political laid down the admen principle that all land was to be give
constitution, he would suggest that it would be as well to to the crown. The right hon. gentleman, the member,'
suspend also the territorial constitution, as placed in the Liverpool, said that be regretted that the municipal Ude
hands of the New Zealand Company. It seemed that certi. none were to be retarded. That was not the case. (anthem*
States were to be grimed to the aborigines, entitling them teary, the municipal institutions weretobe enlarged,andithrw
to vote ; and it was highly probable that their pride might proposedto communicate the municipal franchise to theable
be thereby offended. According to Governor Grey a am ginal natives who resided within the municipal discreet,
count of these men, their moral and religious char- giving them a certificate. With regard to the further,.
meter stood very high—more so, he feared, than the char- greet of the bill, what be proposed was, that, as it tee
raster of many of the emigrants from this country important no doubt should t list in the minds of the
He thought that matters of this kind might be safely of New Zeeland as to the principle of the bill, it siterldl
left to the discretion of Governor Grey, oboe, conduct read a second time on Monday next, so that the affirmed
afforded an ample guarantee fur his efficient management; of the principle might be sent out to the colony, the dkee'
probably to no man who had ever been sent out ad governor sion of the details in committee being deferred till sheen
might a wide discretion be more safely entrusted. (Hear.) reuse. He hoped there would be no objection tothat roam
With every respect for the character of the bishop, he ter) Lord CLIVE did not think that the right hon. gentians
tainly thought him an agitating bishop. (Laughter.) He fairly interpreted the design of the bishop when he min Is
had made his protest spud Governor Grey's proceedings a wished te agitate the colony. (Hear.) la looking owls
as the " head of the missionary body ;" and everybody papers, he observed that they had not Governor Grey's
Ned
knew how frequently missionary seal overstepped discretion. aloe as to the bishop. (" Yes, yes," and cries of "NAP
It could not be contended that he did not mean the protest No. 42.") It was but fair that the Bishop of New Zahn'
to be made public, for he declared his intention, "God as representing the clergy who had a substantive and fade
being his helper," to inform the native of New Zealand of pendent character of their own district from the tetea
their rights and privileges. (Hear, hear.) Such a man as should inform the natives of their just rights, in ceder
bishop must impede very seriously the steps taken by they might be protected.
Governor Ore 'the Earl of ARUNDEL said, it seemed Ty &. 1,1
Mr. R. PALMER. defended the character of the bishop, him that any bishop should be censured for rue le•""
and said that ha had done more genuine service, not only tions to those under his charge as to the propriety otps•nav
to the cause of religion, but to the political and social ing the civil power for their out rights. (Hear.)
interests of the colony, than could possibly be done COMMERCIAL DISTRESS AND CURRENCY
by any company here or elsewhere. The colonies- COMMITTEE.
lion at New Zealand had presented a favourable The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ate
contrast to the colonising efforts clatter countries ; by the found it utterly impossible to include in the comrade ir
i aid of the mss ionariee, civilisation and religion had been in- names of all those who, he thought, had a fair claim le P
troduoed, amidst much persecution from the natives ; and on it ; but he would ask the permission of the nee!
upon the foundation they laid, the government had been en- allow the committee to consist of twenty-six eminele e'-
abled to build its political system. The advantages thus de- stead of twenty. Twenty-six was the number that se°
rived were owing to the missionaries. (Hear.) It was tree the committee of 1840-41.
there might be instances amongst them, as amongst other men, Mr. HOME said there was not a man in the City d__,JA''
in which seal had outrun discretion. The high character don who did not confider this ceencaittee es s ow*
of the aborigines had been manifested even by the humane cloak. Mean hear.) He did not see any occasion feet
way in which they Ind conducted their wars. The bishop mating the number of the committee beyoud lee"'

eetwobed practice of the house regrind. But he did not
▪ theereessity for a committee at aIL They had commit-
in .. 1832,
.1836,1837, and 1840, and between 14,000 and
--15,000 guao." had been asked. The whole subject was
therefore exhausted. He believed they were wrong in at-
carry on the monetary affairs of the country b
the eeriness of a y
tetelfik4t bank which began without any capital
The Bank of England was viciout in principle. 'They re.
sited the Bank to discount 'bills without a Ail-
Cag for they had nothing but the Rest. (Hear, hear.)
It uses *Nerved, with great truth, that the Bank traded on
itscrsdit The value of property war now less by 250,000,0001.
than it was at the commencement of the year, owing to their
monetarysystem. They were leaning on a reed Which was
not able Co stand byiteelf. In October last, a few days after
the letter of the right hon. gentleman, there were only
000,0001 in WWI in the Bank of England and its twelve
brothels What a paltry sum that was to support the
credit of the country. (Hear, hear.) And at that moment
ths Bea had 20,000,0001. out in liabilities, so that any two
ease possessed of 500,0001. might have brought it to a stand.
(Hear, hear.) That was not the state in which they ought
to be. He saw no use of this committee, and he would
therefore move that its appointment be pcetpoued till the
4th of Februry
Col. SIBTHDRP seconded the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would re.
pest that he merely desired the appointment of the com-
mittee, in order that it might be determined what documents
should be called for, so that such documents might be reedy
for the committee when they should meet after the recess.
Mr. E WART supported the amendment
Mr. F. MACKENZIE considered that some Scotch mem-
ber or members—the member for Glasgow, for example—
should be named on the committee.
Mr. HENRIES said it would now appear that the range
of inquiry to be entered upon by the committee was far more
eminuire, far more general, than had been indicated by the
government, in seeking the consent of the house to its appoint-
ment. (Hear.) He did not think this a fair or straighttmward
coarse on the part ef the government, if their desire was
to ante a cue for modifying or superseding the present
system. (Hear, hear.) As to mere inquiry, that really
seemed to have been exhausted by the former committee,
which elicited from iafinite winnows no fewer than 16,000
answers to questioms upon every possible theory connected
with the subject of currency. The house. however, were called
upon, in nominating a committee of 26 gentlemen, to enter
upon • new ocean of theory, with no visible bound or limit.
(Ran bear.) After sin ,uet two years they produced nothing
but a bur volume. Tuey offered not the slightest opinion
on the question. After this experience, was the house pre-
med to launsh again into an inquiry of the same eon,
leaving on the public mind an impression that it was the
desire rather to evade than to prosecute the investigation
He believed that if the committee was appointed it would
lead to no satisfactory results. It was not nominated on a
principle to inspire confidence, and on that ground, if on no
other, be should certainly hope that the appointment would
be postponed. As one of the members named upon it, cer-
tainly, if the committee were now appointed, he must de-
cline to serve.
The house then divided.—For the adjournment 67
Against it 146-89
Lord G. BENTINCK said that he should propose that
ether names be added. In the list were eight members of the
late and present government who would be banded together
against any alteration in the Bank Charter Act. There was
a most remarkable exclusion of members who voted against
that bill. He remarked among others the exclusion of the
hon. member for Oxfordshire, who had predicted the conse-
quences of this bill, as well as that of the member for Paisley,
who had made similar predictions as to the drain of gold es
the first great demand for foreign corn. And how wee
Secithuid represented on this committee ? Why, only by two
mambas, while the West Riding of Yorkshire was repre-
sented by three. Neither of those Scorch members was
connected with joint stock banks in Scotland or with the
commercial interests. Out of 105 members, Ireland was only
permitted to place one member on this committee, although
that member might be said to represent the commerce of
the north of Ireland ; but he was not connected with the
banking interests. The member for the metropolis of Ire.
land was peculiarly fitted to be placed on the committee.
Lancashire ought also to have been better represented, and
the Bank of England which was to be put on its defenee; and,
with the exception of the hon. member for Westmoreland,
the Bank was unrepresented. Mr. Munn was also excluded,
patsies from his known skill in cross-examining a bullionist
witness. lie should propose to leave out the words twenty-
an and to add thirty as the number.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER must re-
sat the motion of his noble friend, on the ground that the
extension of the committee was calculated to prevent its use-
fauns, and he had regretted to make it so large although
be had used the precedent in a similar inquiry. The only
question was the number of the committee' and he would
not go into that of the names which should compose it.
He should oppose the increase of the number.
Mr. T. BARING suggested that the committee should
',mist of only eight members, to be selected from the late
and present administration, and that the inquiry should be
limited to the bill of 1844. That would simplify the quo-
don, and insure a more speedy and eatisfactory report upon it.
The house divided—For the original motion 136
For the amendment... , 45-91
On our re-admission into the gallery we found
Mr. FORBES moving that the debate be now adjourned.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER objected to
the adjournment.
Lord G. BENTINCK again objected to the constitution
of the committee, composed as it was of placemen and ex-
placemen.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the question was should 26 members be the number of the
committee, and it would be competent for the noble lord to
AIM the substitution of any names for those which were
proposed to be nominated.
Mr. WA KLEY said he should support the motion for the
adjournment of the debate, and thought the government
ought not to hesitate to consent to it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said what
le wished was, not to proceed with the nomination of the
committee to-night, but to give his noble friend opposite
(Lord G. &Edina) an opportunity of proposing any names
he may think fit. lie would therefore postpone the nomi-
nation of the committee until to-morrow (this day).
Mr. F. SCOTT urged the nomination of more members
connected with Contlkold on the committee.
An BUN. MEMBEIA thought the opponents of the measure
of 1844 should be represented on this committee, or its
labours would not gain the confidence of the country.
Sir G. GREY slid that the house had decided that 26
should be the number of the committee, and his right hon.
friend had agreed to postpone the nomination of the com-
mittee until to-morrow (this day).
Mr. REYNOLDS complained that so few Irish members
ware proposed by the government to serve midge committee.
Mr. DISRAELI supported the amendment.
Mr. OSBORNE gave notice that tomorrow (this day)
he should mote to substitute the name of Mr. Reynolds for
that of the hon. member for Montrose.
Mr. CAN LEY remarked that the whole value of this in-
quiry would depend on the constitution of the cesentittee.
As it was, he did not hesitate to say that it was net fairly
constituted. The upholders of the Bank Charter AA should
appoint one half of the members, and the oppessale of that
set should appoint the other half. If %hi member were
fifteen be bad no objection to a member of the gewannient
being appointed as the fifteenth. AA the etimmilttee was
propowd, two-thirds of its members were eelected trom gen-
tlemen favourable to the act of 1844, and one-third only
from those who were opposed to it.
Ce,r.. HARRIS hoped government would consent to
the committee between that time and to-morrow.
The CHANCELLOR cd the EXCHEQUER had already
stated he did not intend to press the nomination of the com-
mittee that night. As far me he could do so, he had, to the
beet of his judgment, named a perfectly fair committee ; but
ft would be open for any gentleman to move to substitute
other names for any he had proposed.
Mr. HERRIES inquired whether the Chancellor of the
Exchequer would permit other names to be moved without
notice ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would fix
the nomination for Wednesday. Honourable gentlemen
could therefore give notice of any names it might be pro-
posed to substitute to-morrow (this day).
The motion for adjournment was then withdrawn.
It was then arranged that the committee should consist of
twenty-six members, to be nominated on Wednesday.
NEW ZEALAND GOVERNMENT BILL.
This bill was brought in by Biz. LABOUCAISAA, and read
a tint time.
The house adjourned at a quarter to two o'clock.