The Express.
London, England, 1851-02-05 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 5, 1851.

fan sufßcient so the most timid mind, that while he would know the moaning r f this word " "/ore ion." The cgrgres- 1
stationaly mew eve every right of the crown, sad her eion coneiewel—he de Heel the settle: lord (Lord J. Russell) •'
Moiety's civil supremacy. and while he will oppose deter- to prove ootherwise—it consistei wholly of the spiritual in-
sinonl4l the iatroduction of a code of laws alike opposed to flurnoe of the Pope over the members of the catholic ,
the • mof the Queen rail the civil liberty of the sub- body. (Hear, hear.) Now, had the Woolen catholic" •
yet, will not sully his fair reputation by any course done anything to deserre the insult to which they had been'
which shall be inconsistent with that love of pure subjected ? Was the noble lord, up to the period when he ,
?agaves liberty which he has ever shown. I trust I declared himself enlighten“l with regard to this matter, in
eire dual all feel we may reserve ourselves with perfect con- total darkness with respect to what the Roman catho-
hel..to, till we see the bill intrrahreett, but if it be doubted lie. were doing ? Ile fancied that the noble lord
se to the propriety of env bill at all being brought could hardly have been so completely ign dant. Certain
b. I paint to Roman cathodic peen of the highest be was that Lord Clarendon was net ignorant; neither was
et ti• (oh, ohs, who have puhliely declared that the noble lord the Secretary of State for the colonies.
. .•ot
ale aaoce to the canon law is incompatible with Undue the Bequest Act a commission wax appointed, and
&leg:owe to the sovereign. If so, we see good bishops% of the catholic church were therein acknowledged,
a for the introduction of Rome measure far our from year to year. He held in his hand the Third Report
eTl,ol.eleratiom. Not, sir, that these noble lords are' of the Commis:toners, which contained, amongst other
recrwat to their religious principles in thus resenting the things, accounts of the meetings of the curniniesionero since
rid rescript, not through the indirect induence of pro- the 12th of MamlB47. On the Nth of November, the
irteation they to,:ve adopt, el views which in other tunes Right lion. Joe Keating was in the chair; subsequently
they, you'd have ahhd—oothing like it. The papal the Lord Chief Baron presided; then his Grace the
lesari orre
pt woodel have been r,ented in the palmiest days of Primate ; then his Grace the lord Arehbh,hop of
to, Bosom e itholic religion in this country. (No, no.) , Dublin, a protestant; and next his Grace the Lord Arch-
I trot ....l Men. niembere will feel they can concur in the terms , biahop Daniel Murray, not saying of what Once.
of the address, and I hope we 'hall postpone any debate ! And the whole of the late uproar was cowed he the fact
on s tui.jeet so receding, until the matter is substuttieely , that Dr. Wiseman wax named archbishop, with.the place
before us. The hon. member concluded with is brief alto- l montioned. Here were men calling themselvesnrelibishoto
rim Vi the nectoity of accomplishing some reforms in the I in Ire :and, and here were sets of parliament in which tho
me ehanion of the law, 1 titles were recognised. (Hear, hear.) They ware also
Mr. ROEItUI K said, never since he obtained the honour recognised in the reicalstioue for the Irish court. Here
of a scot in that honer, had he risen with so much pain as ; wee a paper in which it was set foorth that " Her Majesty
as that neesesion. This was not a mere phrase, one of the has been plowed to desire that the following person. hare
sectteey coo. ntanernte of common-place spot-ekes ;he I the privilege of the private entry at court ..-I.'irst, the pri-
m" a fair transcript of his mind, when he said that he mate, then the lard Chancellor, then " the Archbishop of
inn: felt pain in that house equal to that which he felt Dublin," and then "the catholic primate," and let the
that „, nine. on rising to speak. The occasion of that house take notice, before all the protestant hi-hops. (hear,
pain ere, that then. for the first time since he had Sat in Mar.) And then the Itonian catholic Bishop of Dublin
the berm-, he towel en aelminietration calling itself liberal, set out at full length. (Ikea, hear.) Here were the titles
hi ~d, :11,v one who had attain' el all his honour and distinction I arknowledged by her Majesty, in eon'', ering aspet'Al privilege
as a numb, r i'd a gnat liberd party,taking the first step hark- , and that too in the teeth of an act of parliament. Ilintthe
war.:, Amongst a nation, and at a time of which onward house knew well that the Queen had acted in the matter by
• the dietinetise mark, by such an adminietration the advice of her miuiste re, and that they, in fact, were
progress W.V.
st.ol by seena prime minister, was the real hockward step nomousible for it. The document was prepared in the
atteraptesl tee he than The hon. gentleman had observed Home-other. and to the Hume Secretary they must look for
that the antecedents of the noble lord we re guarantees for explanation.
reel lilertv. Last rear he (Mr. Roebuck) would have made Sir G. GREY was understood to deny having pre-
thee steatite ote but now he could not do so. Having lurk fly pared it.
et, treat.," the history of catholic emanciptition, and the priu- Mr. ROEBUCK—No matter, the right hon. baronet
till, son wino h that measure was founded, which, he eau- was answerable tor it. (Loud laughter.) lie was, as( very
te neloal, 111111 violuted by le aishation against religious die- one knew, the government of Ireland, and the moveritnieut
tho.,,„ee wanted be a bishop culled the I'oe. lie of Ireland was answerable for the document. Now, what
chum d Lord John }lumen with dealing falsely with the he wanted to press upon the house was that the catholic,.
reentry. He (Lord John Russell) helot them, or the Queen seeing their titles recognied in such a document, and
told tie the On, s n's speech Ming the noble lord's—that resultiust in privileges to which some persons attached
her Majesty het retain-11 litany addressee from large betties great importance. might have easily been led to believe
of her subjerts with respect to the ecclesiastical tithes con- that there would be no objection on the part of anybody,o
jarred by a- f, weign power, and the noble lord himself, that except perhaps the hon. member for Defend, to the woeump-
the • might not renean iu doubt as to what was intended, time of similar titles in this country. (Hear, hear) They
had that evening given petite that he would bring in a bill all knew what was the real history of this transaction. The
to prevent the mot ment of say honour which might he thing had leen planned for some years, and was announced
conferred toot by a foreign sovereign—for that was an arti- in the s• Catholic Directory" for 1817, in when Dr. V. iseman
lee which he would tear to pieces (hoar, hear); but any was styled Archbishop of Westminster, but then the Italian
re Ultimo distinction granted by the Bishop of Rome. If revolution teeth platy, and of course all the Pope'spmereelings
the noble Inn! did not moo that he raeant nothing. How- were intemmted. But his intentions were very well known,
ever much he might differ from the noble lord on many Ruh- known toot° our minist eat Rome, for he it remembered that
Jetts, he meet toy, that the noble lord hall in spite of the act of parliament we had a minister iet name.
sleep, sheo n himself a hank dealing man ; and (Hear, hear.) And when pee,* talked shoat au act of par-
he mould oppose La
that he would not say that it was not 'Lament, and invading the t/neen's peel ogative, it might be as
peanut the Bi-hop of 'tome that this bell was directed. well for thee.. who were urring home the sharp end of the
:Y,deir• who was the Bishop of Rome ? Regarded by a wedge againet the Inman catholic,, to remember that they
tutholie the Bishop of Rome was not a vice-reign prince ; the melees were in danger of the mysterious act of pr.emu,
he
might cease to he the Prince of Rime to-t:we-row, end he nire, for sending Lord ?!into tee Rome. (Hear, hear.) It
would still le• the Bishop of Hoene—the head of the catholic might lx: land, perhaps, that the noble lord was not mere-
relit:bet. in whom to believe and from shoot to derive ditch but that would be mere paltering with the hosier.
power wits of the very essence of the catholic religiou. To Now, he held in one hand the Roman C Oholic, and in the
say you should not believe in the Lopes of Borne was to other the Methmliot Directory, and if they read " enperin-
eay eeet should not he a catholic; to tell a catholic that he tendent " for "bishop," the one a Latin the other a Greek
dwuel sot Move u hi-hop who derived his power from the word, they would find the- territorial parcelling out come to
biceps was to tell him that he should not have the spiritual precisely the same thing. Here, in one book, was " the
comforts of his religion ; in other words, it was ems' Archbishop of Westminster edinary for the Londna
res reseteion. (Hear, hear.) But he was met by the disoriet," and the either, "the Rev. Dr. Ileauchamp, Peni-
le mob "aggression on her olajesty"s prerogative," "papal dent of the Conference and superintendent of the
airsn,ion." •• territorial aggression." Their American London district." Why, here was eaaetly the aline
brethren had intmeluerel the phmee "obtaining political parcelling out of the kingdom, and for the same,
capital." lie (Mr. Roebuck) never saw a more admirable that was to say, for spiritual purposes. (Hear, hear.)
',mediation lowa no capital at all than that on which the Ile (Mr. ltoelouck) might to-morrow do the same
noble lord had just entered. This papal aegreesion thing. Ile might parcel reit Englund if so inclined, mei
was no new thing. Thee noble lonl must have call himself D.D. or A.S.S. or any other reverend title he
bee n aware of it for years ; and he would prove to those. (Laughter.) Why, the same thing was done by
to the satisfaction of eitry one—he did not care le en the Independent.. the Rootlet., and all to.. half hundred'
prejudieed lee tnight be on this subject, or on any other— denominations into which English dissent was divided. He
he would ems, to Min that this papal aggrewion le-gan asked the house, then, was this a matter, respecting which,
rote ago, and had been winctioneel by the noble lord. it was worth while, after all they had heard of
" England," said the- noble lune "has been parcelled out ministers' previous conduct to the Roman catholies, of
by a fun lend power; England has been parcelled out by the way in which the latter had been lured on, to run
the Pope oef Rome." But when ? " Oh, the tether day, such risks as ministers were pres.ed to unite rtake ? (hear.)
when a earelinal was treated, tied Dr. Wiseman declared As to the remaining portions of the whines., he hail no
Arebbiettop of Westminster." Wei that the art territorial opposition to offer, and hit it not been for this unfortunate
aggression ? Was it the lirst perdition of Englatel ? Why, point, all lee should have done would hart been to join in
t ter since he had kaolin Eastland he had been pursing it ley aerlamation. (Cheers.)
nware of the existence of catholic 'ashore. There was one Sir It. INGLIS (who was almost innudible, in eon*.
iastanee with which he was familiar. bishop Bain+s was emcee* of the 111171 I.f enneereation pervading the house)
e elle 41 Bishop of ('out,, and as he W.Ol in reality Bishop of was understood to complain that the hon. and learned
Bathe he' (Mr• Its buck; ste w waneitnap about him. That member had treated the papal aggr:wesion us a matter too
bishop dense," his powers direel) from the Pole,. Ile was trivial for state notice or interferetio to lie would ask the
also, lee steppes 41, a clear iltOKtOlie. NOW what did that hon. and harried member whether, if such a proceeding had
mean ."- lie gimlet it v eettd appear that, en fur front the taken place in any other country in Europe. it would not
p,,ps having la, ly acquired power, he had (bigoted himself have been meet by a similar burst of feeling, or such
ter pe ce r (le .o', hear) ; that so far from this being an an equivalent dentonstmtiont as the customs of the country
swan ...ion at wax a nine:rob-on ; that instead of might ruction? Was there a country in Europe in
hieing encroached on her Mnoety's 'marmot i ve, the which such a territorial partition wmild have been admitted,
Pope had wive n the people of England, or the catheo at all event" without diseuesion ? (Hear, hear.) Could the
lie. 01 Ellal3llll, the power of guise ruing themsates. Pope hare made such an attempt on any of the gnat eon-
A 'asleep who was 11 vicar apootolic was like a tinental power. of Europe? The bon. and learned member
krote a /leen ; he ref. rod everything to the Pope, talked of the partitiems of the Wesleyan* and other sects.
and the Pop. through his vicar* apostolic, governed this hut the Pope had treated Er.gland as if it were a country of
coontry comet. to lv and entirely, as far as catholic. were infidels, as if we had neither crown, nor e Minh, and
concerto el. The leishops woulof now have to be elected by that toe re individual except the members of his own
certain pen.ons in Ettglartel. (Cries of " No, no.") The communion we're yet to be converted tie Chrietiartite.
would tenet them M olvee 'Menton. (Hear, hear.) " But,' (Hear, hear.) He had, to use a popular phrow, tousled
It was said. " Dr. Wise man it Gilled Arch shop of the e xistenee of the crown cif Eiutland and the ('hurch of
Westminster." Icy end bye Bishop Bane*, hotrod of England, anal ordained that hetweforth the peoplo should
be ing vetted Hiehop tilt:at tae a place in parribas irefirl, limas, he governed only by his priests. (Hear, hear.) He asked
might le ran, ot Dis Mop of Rath end Welts, and then think .if the. hon. snit leaned memner whether, if such an aggro.-
the racer--ram IT ho r 'Oland) 's pre negative! Was the whole Slllll hail been attempted nil Russia, the great sovereign of
matte rto torn on the Met that a ',Whop was ealle 41 Arch- that country would not have reeistecl it with the whole force
Nebel, of Westminster instead of Ilithop of Melipotanius ? of his mighty tenpin.? Ile (Sir It. Inglis) would venture
Was !hat the gnat di-tine-tient i• (Ikar, hear.) WO, Minn to predict that (-eery ship of war in the Mack Sea would in
Lao is t i flew to her Majeety's prenigutive from mere change such a nee be sent to Cleats Vecchia, and the Pope con-'
of we rots ? flow, he asked, was her 111 sty's prereemtive pelted to eat his own words within three months. (A
tot ake .1. or ohm was the mooting of t • word " aosnree- laugh.) What he felt fare of with the Emperor of Itteeia
eien •• • 114. hod not indeed real, hut glanced over, the ht 1011111 harshly etpect from the Emirreer of Austria; but
columns and coleomne ~f rubbish which had been uttered of this he was certain, that a certain King of England, of
as that ••iliert (Our re) : sail he felt it to be one of the a former day, would have met it fearlessly and promptly
most glorious prior:lieges of that home that he could there and in whatever shap• it might hose advanced. lie alluded
my what would not he listened to by roaring wrtarim. to W illi.tm 111.. mid he asked, if such a monkery had bee n
(laughter and theves.) In that house,'however humble an attempted in his time, win thee he would not immediately
W1iv0t,,..,1 might be, if he spoke calmly WWI honestly, he have ordered the offending parties to withdraw from the
ousel h. heard .: 111211 Stl Cenhilent wee he, not in himself, kingdom ? (Hear, twee.) He (lid Wet (pat,' approve of the
lint in the simple statement of the truth, where it was his- speech which her Majesty had been advised to deliver, not
to mei to with calinue ees and decorum, that he was convinced became it went eon far, hut because it went far Ina into tho
that his ementreme n would by and by feel ashamed, both merits and necessities of the caw than lie had been pod to'
of the comletotien and of the pi roots who hail stirred it up. expert front the letter of the noble lord at the head of the
(laughter., Now, he wanted to know shut WAS the mean- government. The hon. and learned member made light of
ire of this wool - aggression f" Hail the law been the amerso.ion, but he (Sir R. Inglis) would recommend
thaneed ? Not at all. The Bishop of Casabecame him to peruse Mr. Twos history of it, before he pronounced
Bishop of Bath end Welle,—he did not know what see 111.SisiStIV. It was quite true as the hon. and learned
Dr. Witeinan might chaser to ho calks'. lie reall7 member hail triumphatly asserted, that we had given undue
did rot wish to east the slightest degree of ludo- encouragement to the papacy, in the concessions succes-
cranisiew over the question 1 he wished to deal with it sively yielded by government. They had acknowledged
gravels'. a' the made lord had dom.; but he could not help the Itomieh biyearlies, in Ireland, and as the hon. and
SUitlii/1111 what ages, vie's; there was he Dr. Wiseman** ca- learned member NUB, had recognieed the Roman catholic
watt home If a nerelneol. and putting on a large hat and reel archbishop, but not he believed as archbishop of Dublin,
stiwkieen. 114 reps and that hr diet not wish to treat merely as exercising the functions in loco, a very important
the otte slime lueliennoly ; but, in fart, it was impossible to dietinetion in considering the question of archiepiscopal
ask that the ageression was without making the subject jurisdiction. Ile would only further expose his hopes
boner,-,,.. (Hear.) Loyalty to the sovereign s. Did anybsly that the first minister of the crown would secure to
Rupp' o that hi leveller k•se loyal because he laughed at this ? the bishops and delve of the church much protection as they
That the emluaies of Enghool. who were amongst the most were entitled to by the law., and customs, and constitution
Memo:, and submissive (they were, indeed. too humble). of of England. ((hear, hear.)
all rl ese sof her Majesty • subjects—that they of all people Mr. J. O'CONNELL thanked the hon. and learned
in the ee oriel ehouklbe amused of making inroad. upon her member for Sheffield for his ',perch, not only in the name
Mae -I y's prerecatiie, because Dr. Wiectuan was called of the catholic. of the United Kingdom, hut 'in that of civil
An ih'',1,..1. or WettokirPter• a", indeed, curl • • rag, How and religious liberty. lie multi not coincide' in the sanguine
was en, pisse•r in question attained? lie would answer conclweion that had been drawn respecting the improve-
soil "f the noble lonl's own mouth. In the year ISIS. the mints 1.1 Ireland. lie contendeel that nothing hail ben
km. hamlet the minis r for the University of Oxford (Sir recently attempted by the catholic hierarchy which
it. Inglis) called attention to certain matter, connected with was not in accordance with precedents set twenty
the oreetewel hierarchy of the "Gannett church. The hon. and even seventy years ago. In his (Mr. O'Connell's)
baronet woo the only consistent man amongst them, opinion, the noble lord (Lord John Ruseell) had, by
come the one exactly opposite to him, who his celebrated letter to the Bishop of Durham_ , done
hadtli, n the honour of addressing the house. much to excite feelings of religious animosity between
Ihe hon. member haul been consistent from the b- various classes of her Majesty's subjects. and the Roman
ginning. lb said. " Ton were wrong in 1829: you catholic.' of this try arid of Ireland did expect that
• ought to have kept the catholic, down; you had no bust- the nobles hurl. having committed himself to loigotry and
WWI 1.1 make any advance ; • and when he saw the whirl- intolerance in wird,, would have had the manliness to
- pits which the noble lord had helmet to 'establish beiug earn out thew wants by acts, That he had not done so
tarried ,out. 111'1111111'. Thar. now, look at the I.IIIIseIIUCIRVII, would obtain for him, not the thank, of the catholic', but
hen is tier I. eitimate result of what sou did in ltelte" their contempt.
The noble lord said. in a debute in reference to diploniati Mr. A. J. B. HOPE thought his hon. friend the member
(41
rel tines with the court of Rome. " You meet e ither give for Oxford University- had not considers,' the question in
sertain adsantattes to the ltoman cethoolies in obtaining its double aspect—as it affected the Church of England on
from the Pope certain other advantages in return, among the one hand, and the body politic on the other. As a
which you must stipulate that the Pope shall not create any member of the ('hunch of England he was ready to oppow
dioceses in England without the consent of the Queen ; or. Romish aggrewion to the last • hut they were not mumbled
on the other hand. you must sav that you will have nothing then- as members of the Church of England, but as members
to do with arrangements of that kind, and that you will not of the legislature of a country pre-eminent in civilian
Imola to Ow any authority to the Homan catholic religion non, intellect and toleration where free deem of conscience
in England." s• But," added the noble lord, " you must was the law of the land. (Hear, hear.) The hon. baronet
leave the spiritual authority of the Pope entirely unfettered. had n•ferred to the reign of William the Third, and so far
You cannot WU the Popes spiritual authority unless you as the law and constitution remained unchanged, since then
have name agreement. Fen my own Past. lam ma die-that appeal woe legitimate. But to be consistent this appeal
pool to think that it would be• for the advantage of this should embrace the whole term, the whole length and
emintry-, or that it would be agreeable to the Roman ea- breadth, not of the William of Orange only, but of the
theliee. that we should have an ogre-emelt with the Pope Elizabeth, the Tudor, and Stuart view of the doctrine of
hey which their religious arrangements would be regulated. lawny of conechences ; and that view would not merely
Although you may prevent any spiritual authority hum drive Cardinal Wiseman from the kingdom, but hurry him
being e eersised by the Pope' by law, yea there is no provi- to the stake at Smithfield, and clop off the ears of the hon.
eiun, nu law whiel nay boo. friend could frame, that would ! gentleman who had last addressed the home,. (wt Hear,"
showier the Pope of that influence which is exereind over 1 and a laugh.) Those views, however, no longer remained.
the mind. and preclude him from giving advice to thew 1 The hon. member then glanced briefly at the history of re-
aleo cheat to attend to such ads in . t That ware a wise de- IlisriOnS toleration in England--o principle which had cub
thwation . It was a statement that you might anathema- initiated in the acts of 1809, and had been consolidated
bee the re bole papal people. that you might All the statute since by other statutes. Yet now it was proposed to revive
book with pains and doultilith a and yet nut be able to penal enactments against the catholice merely becauee they
Men is, euntreel over the mind of the catholic. If ant ono had presumed to act up to the chaster of their ernancipa-
lael come to that honer, and asked the noble lord tobriug tinn. How could protestantism, which was founded upon
ie e lull to Au-knowledge Curelinal Wiseman, to resew- faith and reason, be endangered by a trifling change in the
n'' Inc lawelling out of England, and to eye him a erclesiaetical nomenclature of the Roman prelacy ? It was
certain pre-einineace and precedence, then he could undef- humiliating to array the great powers of parliament in re-
etatal the uohle lord's wynatet " I will nut consent to this in- 'lst-ann• to an attempt said to be making by thir-
feMaement atom the prerogative of the. weereign." But teen individuals, comparatively poor and unknown, and
when au inelindual tame in the humble guise of a poor eommissioned by the weakest prince in Europe.
powerless priest, without any influence but spiritual infin- The dignified way to treat the aggression was
cam. wielding no power but the power of mind over mind, to ignore it. He regretted that a ruggarellr and
sot eurrouuded by guard. nor brought hither by a fleet in parsimonious policy had iaterfered to prevent the appoint-
anus--a simple cardinal, addressing himself to metes merit of a Bishop of Westminster in connexion with our
• minds. to these spiritual belief, to their perception of what own church to labour amongst the thousands of wretched
they deemed religion, he must say that there was here and ignorant human Nina, there crowded together, and to
ao carrion, no awault on any one, but merely an ems!. "UM Dr. Wiseman alleged his mimion was directed,
use of mind which consisted with religious liberty, instead of heaving that duty to another and an antaFonistie
end to impose shackles or manacles on as individual SO church. (Cheers.) He regretted the course which had
"tin van gross persecution. (Hear, hear.) They must been taken in this matter, inanimmk as it elould be re-

Rarded, not only as a proof of national weakneu, but a eon-
session that the faith of the natim had no better found4tion
than an act of parliament, and that a bull from the Pope,
or a letter from the Flaminian gate, was sutfeiently power-
ful
to pull down the crown and at establiNheil religion. Let
those who thought Oil: be Lot ful, his faith in the stability
1, of the Crown and in the Church of England remained un- 11

were confined in prison for rears under the persecution—
for persecution he would roll it—while othors lingered out
long and miserable lives in the vain expectation of justice, !
and did before justice was wintini‘tered. The people of
the United States had shown their good sense by abolishing
their Court of Chancery altogether. lie believed that act
I would be attended with the best possible results ; and let
England follow the Frxxl example, and abolish her Court of
Chancery. That might happen one day, although he knew
that many—and some he saw there—would find their occu-
pation gone. At all events, he hoped that the good sense
of the country would enforce that extent of reform
which should have the effect of removing abuses. lie
highly approved of the next paragraph in the royal
speech referring to the introduction of a measure for the re-
gistration of deeds and in.truments relating to the transfer
of property. But there was nothing in the speech about the
reduction of taxation, and although they had been led to
believe in the vague prospect of receiving relief from some,
he found no hope recorded in the speech from the throne.
lie was not aware either that there was any alliedon to re-
form, except the law reform. lie hoped, however, and
would give the noble lord credit for such intentions, that he
would some time introduce not only ouch a reform of that
house as he had stated he was always prepared
to do, but that while the working classes were

shaken, (Cheers.)
Mr. C. M.STKY fully subscribed to the language of the
;Teeth from the throne and of the addrera in reference to
the Lee act of prat aggress...en. He was a member of the
church of Rom: hit not of the court of Rome, and as such
he was compelled to characterise that Oct as one of agues-
don. (Hear, hear.) There was a bread line of distinetion
between the Irish Heenan catholic church and the English
Roman catholic church which should never be lost sight of
in legislating on this sonnet t. The Irish Roman catholic
chit:eh was not an endow.l church, while the English
branch of that church was. Then the Irish Roman
catholic church was governed by a canon law, by which
the affair. of that church had been administered, and
its clergy governed ever since the days of St. Patrick. and
by which abuse and onpresion, either of clergy or laity,
were etreettlally preveutnl. The Engthat Roman catholic
church had no such defined canon law, the canon law of the
Itomnsh church in thi., country leaving been abrogated by
the reformation. From the time of the emancipation of the
English Henan catholic church, from the Elizabethan and
Stuart code-, there had been a couniet between the
Roman catholic hishops and their monk, in cen-equence
of the unholy and anomalous, acsumpton by the former, of
a jurisdiction in all matters relating to the church—temporal
as well 611 spiritual—superior to any law or canon what'o-
ever. Penton., had, it was true, been sent to Rome by
the Roman catholic laity, praying for the renanal
of this antunilly, and that the More govern-
ment of their church should be placed in the
h mete of a hierarchy of the :r own elect: m. Those
petitioner* had la m opposed by the bishops who prayed
that the le-hope might not he elected, and that the benefit
of the canon law might not be given to the laity and inte-
rior clergy as was the case in Ireland. In the Siatuta Pre-
prone, it .vas proposed hy Gregory XVI. that the bishops
should not take territorial titles, but that they should he
elected and he subject to the canon taw, and *though the
laity and iufeiior ;stogy acluisaced in that proposition, the
biXein re ieted, and ever fence there laid been a contest be-
tween the bishopemi the one hand awl themes-iodaty clergy,
monks, and laity on the other. An attempt was made, and
sucesseefially resisted, in 15.36, to establish a hierarchy to be
named by the Pope on the recommendation of the bishops,
which should override the whole body of the canon
law, and to make hews for the regulation and
government not only of the epiritualitha, but also
of the temporalities, of the Church. The attempt
then made hind, by the recent bull, been carried,
and unless some means were taken to prevent it, see
what a position the ceretts of law reaild be placed in. in
relation to all mating connected with the catholic church.
This hull, if not at once met, would be r, rived in the
court, of equity as authority in all suits involving the tem-
poralities of that church, and the Court of Chancery would
be placed in the anienalotts position of having to carry ont a
bull of the Pope. The ;speech from the throne, and the
paragraph in the address an answer, did nothine more than
call upon the house to eunaidt r this matter, and to
his mind it certainly appeared of sueicient importance
to justify the sovereign in calling their attention to it.
Attention to the laws of the Roman catholic church a
priest mot qualify himself fi,, his spiritual function. ; but,
pursuant to the new order of thing., it %yield /1.. w depend
on the abonnte will of a bishop to say whether the priest
haul so ieteliti him. elf. It might be said that these we re
ff..; Ve the considerntfilll ^f PLeum ettahalin not for
that of parliament. ite did not say that parliament was
culled upon to deal with them, hut he did contend that
parliament ought to consider the question generally and to
advise her elajesty thereupon. Mike Were told that parlia-
ment had nothing to do with each a question, then he
would beg to remind hen. go ateenon that that house had
very often legislated with the slew at kr epingdown undue in-
fluence.. It laud legidated. for inatance, between the labourer
and the manor, the in'elowner and the factory child ; and,
iud• ed, it would be impossible for the Rona ratliolies to
(maw from the consequences of the hull, unto ss it inter-
fered hi some shape. It would doubtless not bind the court
of Rome by rincordets, because, in spiritual matters, the
power of feeisletion was wholly in the Pope ; but there
were 'awe which it might profitably enact. If hon. mem-
bers took the master into consideration in the spirit in
which her Majesty had calhel upon them to consider it, they
would do well not to stop at the barn n and (lull question
of title, or to waste an hour in tithing about the ea-
' nunption of eceledesticel titres, het it would be well
for them to take into consideration that which for
years they had n fused to entertain—namely, the securities
taken at the time of the paving of the Emancipation Act.
involving ar, they did the rights, duties, and position of the
member of the Roman rath‘olic church, and the relation-
ship of those member. towards the state. aVhert they had
done tbi., thee %Willa 1W able to 'vol• with thinp , and not
with mimes ; 'but if they omitted to act in this manaer,
they might depend upon it that their legislation would be
futile. (Hear, hear.) Ile had now to crave the indulgence
of the Loma whit., he addressed him-elf to It point upon
which he felt is rionally interested. The bon. member
for Sheffield had st:cl that in 1848 it was undentoei
that an Archbishop of We was shout to
be appointed, and that no proteet had been made
against it. lle (Mr. Atuitcy) was bound to hay, in reply,
that a pretest bad been Made again-t it by the hon. baronet
the member for the Univoreity of Oxford (Sir It. Inglis) on
the occasion ,if a bill leasing through that huauo. Ile (Mr.
Anstey) then made a statement which, at the time, he be-
lieved to be true, bet which subsequent event% falsified.
His statement was, that it was impesible the report re-
specting the appoiutme id of an Archbishop of Westminster
could be true. became• before there was an arehhisliop there
must be a hierarchy ; that there could be no hierarchy
without a clerical election ; and that wheneeer an arch-
' bishop was UltrOlilt,ll that net would he the act of the
clergy end people, and not of a eareign power. Shortly
I aft. r he had made this Meternent the human revolution
broke out, and einee thin a vitd change had marked the
Papal policy, It man indeed, lamentable to think that the
I great reforming Pope of 184 C. and 1847 bhould have in later
r dim placed himself at the head of a contemptible cams-
; ride. (Hear, hear.) He believed it was wholly untrue
. that Lets! Minto knew long since that the seeresaion Was -
o ditated, for it ws only last summer that the thine had b. en
decided upon, and iu the end it was left to Cardinal Wise-
t man's own choice to my whether he should return to this
r country as arelibielinp, or whether he should re mein at
r Rome as cardinal. (Hear.) Ile believed, as s member of
I the Church of Rome, that the bill of which notice had
I be, n given that night, would be utterly futile and
s melee,. It must eto much further than he presumed it did,
and, if it weut further, he would give her Majesty*e minis.-
, ter. thehumble benefit of his vote. (Applause.) 'Redue,
t however, to the barren question of title he would not give
them his vote. He wouhl °phase any portion of the measure
which might relate to Irela'ne--a country whose position
was very different from that of England, and a country
r which heal not loot its hierarchy, haul never I-Mediu-el its
l hierarchy from the Pope, but hail en;,oyed its aneient renew;
I ever rimy the days of St. Patrick. lie would give his vote
I that night, if there should happen to be a divinon, in favour
of it oddness, and in opposition to any Roman catholic
• ante tolmentie (s. Hear," and closers.)
I Mr I'LIanIPTRE p e.tponeel any special examination of
I the subject, but pronounced the popular indignation emainst
the papal aggreseion to have been just and universal, and
, warn, •I the prime minister that it u could he rearmed with
tenfold ate, nett', and directed against himself, if he tat-
I to patter with the prim nate, he had profemed, or
I any of his colleagues who might stand in the way of the
fail assertion of protestant huh penitence.
Lord ARUNDEL and SCHREY declared his intention
to oppose any measure of persecution by whomsoever pro-
pencot, or however hopeless might bz hi redstance.
Mr. FA(IAN commented upon Mr. Austere speech, de-
elating that he had not made out any ease agaiwt the intro-
- &Klima of a catholic hierarchy iu England. It woe wrong
to term that step, as it had been termed in the royal 'leech,
an interference by a foreign power. The act was altogether
spieitual end reef, siastical.
Mr. IlieME ulnerved that if a stranger entered the house
that evening he would naturally be led to suppose that the
members were a set of ecelesigeties, met fur no other purpose
than to take into consideration the Pope's bull. (A laugh.)
Judging by the speech delivered by her Majesty, be was
perfectly satisfied that no injury wet. likely to be done
the Roman esthetics. lie thought the honourable mem-
ber for Sheffield had brought this subject forward in
a meet able manner, showing must satisfacturily that the
country had been led away by au erroneous bilpreerion.
There was no necemity whatever for the power of the state
to support the protestant religion; fur if at was said that it
could not Ise maintained within the power of the state, it
must follies, that its fouueLetions were nut solid. But con-
sidering the immense power of the protestant church in this
country, the great number of its communicant-, and the
enormous amount of its revenues, he thought it
would be a very humiliating situation fur any
protestant to be placed in, that it should be
laid his country was to be overran by catho-
licism. Ile could not believe that the noble lord who
had been for so many years the advocate of religious liberty
would at this hour sully his reputation, or attempt to intro-
duce any measure which could by any interpretation be
brought under the denomination of persecutum. (Hear.
hear.) He could not help observing that a third of her
Majesty's speech was taken up with matter; foreign to this
subject—with the affairs of Germany and other countries—
while a single paragraph 01113, was devoted to this important
question, which was very like looking after the concern' of
other nations rather than our own. Ile should refrain from
pronouncing any opinion upon the conduct of her Majesty's
government until he had documents before him. But there
was an expression in the speech in which he could not
agreewithwhat her Majesty was made to say: "I am much
; gratified in being able to inform you that the German Con-
• federation and the government of Deninirk are now en-
' gaged in fulfilling the stipulations of that treaty, and
thereby putting an end to hostilities which at one time ap-
peered full of danger to the peace of Europe." He would
, ask if there was a :run in all Enelend who would tell him
, he was satisfied at seeing Austria in l e-onsion of the free
city of Hamburg, and so placed with the ceneurrenee of the
British government. Why, they had door-a:fed the liberties
of Germany, as far as they could. They had allowed-Au-trio
to be put forward and supported by the brute force of
Itainig in oppressing the liberties of Germany. He raw
with deep regret the occupation of a free town like Ham-
burg; and with equal tegret the oppression of all Germany.
The hon. memlaer next referred to the tenting* in the speech
(erring to the improvements in the administration of jute
tier, stating that be was one who had always edvocated reeky-
tion of taxation, and he vousidered that the. Court of Chan-
eery was a heavier infliction upon the country than even
the mosey Meet that were prat. The ditference was that
the latter was at least knoint, while the abuse, of
the otbot were not ktyawn, an 4 numbers of perms

well employed—he meant the manufacturing class,
for be could not say so of the agricultural
labe-:rers who were miserably paid, their wages averaging
7s. and Ns. a week in many counties—the noble lord would
ems:der whether they did not owe justiee to the working
clas,s; to thus intalligont artisans who were the organs of
the commercial power of the country. The noble lord
ought to consider whether at this very moment they did not
owe them some rated of justice, whether they hail not been
deprived of those rights and privileges which, under the
constitution of this country-, they ought to lasses, and
whether the time had not come whin the privileg, I to which
they were so entitled .hould he extends d to them. They were
ents'led to the protection of their interests. The rich man
could defend h:mself against taxation, but the poor man
could not, and they required just laws Inc their
protection. The noble lord might have difficulties
to contend with ; and allusion had been made to his
cabinet. He did not cure what the noble lord's cabinet
might be : but let the noble lord look bark to his own acts in
18.32, and the promise he then made, that if the reform then
granted did not make that house the representatives of the
people at large and not mere nominees, he would introduce
—and the noble lord pledged himself to introduce—such
further reform as should have the effect of making
the House of Commons really representatives. Was that
really th- case now ? (llcar.) Were we much better off
thus before ? Let them look over one-half the house, and

see how it was map:Keil. lied the people anything to do
with the election of it? Nothing at all. True the aboli-
tion of monopoly had been voted, and the e-tablislunent of
free trade. Almost all monopolies were destroyed, except
the monopoly of power. There was another point to which
he would advert. He wished there had been in the speech
some assurance from the government that our colonial sys-
tem would be reformed. Lest year the noble lord had gained
credit by the nehle and manly speech he had made, but he (Mr.
Hume) wow afraid that it bad tome to nothing after all.
The reforms he (Mr. linen° sought would be as advan-
tageous to the higher as to the humbler classes, and he
would now conclude, having stated what he approved of in
the eptach, end a het were the omissions he regretted.
Colonel SI ISTIIOIIP spoke shortly in censure of the
government. but was indistinctly heard. Ile dialer d that
the sooner they were got rid of the better. Iteferring to
the Greet Exhibition, he wanted to know how much money
had been fooled away upon that glass-house ; and he stated
hie fen:se...ieas tne vf the Lachequer
would be called upon to supply deficiencies on account of it.
His own opinion was that the noble lord meant to do
nothing at all but what he had done before—succumb to
that party without which he could not sit in that place.
Mr. (rIIANTLET BERKELEY intimated his intention
of deferring any statement of opinion until he had
heard the measure to be proposed by the government,
and then he should watch it like a true peon stant, fur
upon that measure the interests of both civil and religious
liberty would be brought under discussion. He regretted
that there was not in her Majesty's speech any allusion
whatever in any way to the state of the tenant farmer, to
the suffering be adured, and the oppreseion under which
he laboured from tie operation of the income tax.
Mr. H. OItATT.tN, in reference to what the honourable
secender of the address (Mr. l'eto) had Field of the pros-
perity of manufactures and trade, said that as regarded
Ireland, the only instance of prosperity he knew of was
the erection of a clammy len feet high, the effect of which
he supposed wooed be to vitiate the air of all the neigh-
bourheo I. So far as agriculture was concerned, all
the tenants and labourer' were leaving Ireland,
and that was no very satisfactory prof of prosperity.
In 11441, Mr. Larkliam took the liberty of showing that Ire-
land was capnble of supporting herself, and that she grew
twice the quantity of groin necessary for her self-support.
Yet shortly after that house was called upon for an ailvanee
or loan of several minions to sustain a people, of whom it
was asse 'tett they were doubly provided for. There was a
paragraph in the royal blench to which he could not help ad-
verting.
It had been announced by Mr. llayter that, on
Friday next, it would be sought to introduce a bill in retie ,
mace to eetheiastical assumptions, the erovisiona of which
it was intended should apply to the United Kingdom.
(Hear, hear.) Now, in Ins (Mr. Ornttan'g) opinion*
it would he long before the members of her Ma-
jesty's g srnmeov IV.llol be able te• carry such a
meaeure tier the Unie d Kingdom. (Hear, hear.) He
regarded tine proeeetlings as moat disgraceful. The
age was too far advanced for such; and he felt that
house would never lend itslf to such a paltry poli-
tical measure. (Hear, hear.) lion, members ought to
remember the year 1829, when this now mooted question
had been to all appeurance settled. Either the house then
meant to settle the question, or it did nut. (Hear, hear.)
If settled, then let it be so; but if not, then all the proceed-
ings of that period were idle and vain. He (Mr. Grattan)
could net understand the language of the letter of the
noble Premier, such us " confining the intellect and fetter-
ing the soul." What was the meaning of fettering the
tench? The soul was an essence, and could not
be fettered. (A laugh.) Did the writings of the
;treat catholic fathers and historians fetter the soul ?
Did Boseu, t. or Manillon, or leenelon fetter the soul ? Or
did the Jesuit authors confine the intellect ? (lliar, hear.)
Unless the word. e United Kingdom" were erased,
and e England or Scotland" substituted, he would contest
the matter, anti divide the house on every single stage of
the penal and unchristian measure. (Hear.)
Mr. BANKES said that before the debate was brought
to a concludon there were some pageages in the speech of
her Majesty which he and those alto` had the honour of
representing the agricultural portion of the kingdom should
think it their duty to make some remarke upon.
It was observable that when the subject of agricul-
ture) distress was last referred to on the occasion
of the opening of parliament many took exception
to the mode in which that reference was put forward,
inasmuch as the langugee of the Royal Speech (A-
pe...see' a regret thut rumours of agricultiiral distress were
.ife and general. Ile gave the government every credit for
sincerity of intention ; but now, after the lapse Of
twelve months, when listening to another Boyd Spenh,
agricultural dieters* was aßaiu alluded to, although by a
reference to the context it would appear as though her Ma-
jesty's ministers were of opinion it would he of merely a
temporary nature. (Hear, hear.) For twelve months the
agricultural inter( st haul been labouring under the pressure
of great dilticultice, according to the admission of the noble
lord ; and at the end of that time, had the noble lord no
better assurance to give them than such hope as was to be
found in the continued prosperity of the other clients of the
community ? No doubt the prosperity of the other classes
of the community was very intimately connected with the
prosperity of agriculture ; but that it might have its full
e&. t, it was necessary that the supplies of food should be
produced and drawn from their own agriculturists, and
not fruit foreign countries. (Hear, hear.) All the predie-
tinns and prophecies that had seen made of a return
of agricultural prosperity had failed. (liar, hear.) The
members of her Majesty's government Lul told them that
they complained too ...on, that they warn only trying an
experiment, and that they should not complain until that
experiment was fully tested. Supposing that the members
of her Majesty's government hail ifrounds for making these
statements, they met with no lectioue opposition from his
side of the house, and they did not Fens their own opinions
with any unreasonable pertinacity; on which account they
subjected themselves to obloquy on the part of those whose
interests they were sent to watch over. The fact of agri-
cultural distress bad been again admitted in the speech
from the throne, and yet they were still told to
wait for another twelvemonth till these difficulties became
dieter's, and next year perhaps they would be told to wait
till this distress bail become ruin. (Hear, hear.) Ile
wished to give the noble lord an opportunity of stating
what he proposed to do in the way of relief for the only
interest in the country which was suffering. and he could
aeenre him that from no hands would they More gratefully
receive it, than from his. (Hear, hear.)
Lard J. ItUSSELL rose and said—Sir, I rejoice to find
that we are not likely to have any division on the question
of the address in reply to the Tech from the throne, and
that that eddress is likely to he passed by the house, if not
unanimously, yet witheMt any amenelinent being moved
upon it. (Cheers.) I will, however, address myself to the
various topics touched on by the Fennel gentlemen who
Lave spoken on the address : and as the most convenient
mode, I will advert to these topics in the order in wleleh
they appear in her Majesty's speech. The hon. gentleman
the member for Montrose began with the strange complaint,
that it was unnecessary for her Majesty's govern-
ment to make so long a reference to foreign af-
fairs. But it mown have been unknown to the
house that a dispute existed between Denmark and
Germany, god that a war hail for some time been carried
on in Seldeswist-Holetein—a war of the greatest importance
not only in respect to the danger it occasioned to the peace
of Europe, but a. materially effecting the commerce of this
country. (Hear.) It cannot be unknown to the house
that the differences which Live subsisted are in
fa* enure of adjustment, and that the danger of
the hostilities which so long threatened the peace
of Europe is likely to be dissipated. I cannot
lout rejoice that such Amulet be the case, and I hope that
the endeavours made by my noble friend near me (Lord
Palmerston), who recommended to one of the contending
parties not to enter on hostilities--not to push on hostilities,
tend to the other to adopt a tone of conciliation, have not
beeu unsucensfni. My hon. friend went on to my that this
country ought net to have permitted Austna to un-
derteke certain measures, or to occupy Hamburg
with her troops. Why, that complaint is most
inconsistent with the other eomplaint, for if we
listened to the former, we would sertain' ly make no men-
tee; of foreign politico, but if we listened to the latter we
would then be at mar with some of the principal powers of
Europe. (Hear, he*.) The course we pursued may not
be in otwordiwiceorith the views of ethers, but wo certainly

used our interest where we thought it would tepd to the
peace of Europe ; and in other questions, however impor-
tent they were to the general interests of Germany,
we have not felt it to be our duty to in-

terfere in any way. But at the same time we
cannot but think that the settlement of the affairs of Ger-
many and the maintenance of a Power in the centre of
Europe, composed of FLA NIA states, acting in harmony to-
gether, are of the utnuot importance, and we hope that
whilst that power maintains its strength, the separate
states which form the confederacy may not only firmly
found the constitution. which they have now for a bmg
time maintained, but that these constitutions may he male
still more favourable to
liberty. (Checi-s.) Such sow
wish, such is our pray, r, for the w,:lfare of Germany.
But we slid not consider ourselves bound to interfere in the

concerns of 40,000,00'1 of people, although wa desired that
they might ho able to obtain and carry ont freedom
and good government for themselves. (Hear, hear.) The
neat topic in her Majesty's speech is that to which the hon.
gentleman who has
.lust sat down adverted, and though I
agree with the hou. fc.ntleman in the svmpathv therein ex-
preesed for the own. rs and occupiers oi land, I differ Prom
him in the conclusion at which he arrived. I am afraid

I can go on but a little way with the honourable
and learnt d gentleman. I certainly wioh with
regard to the corn laws that the transition from
an extremely rigid and excluqvc system to one of oomph to
freedom of import. had been less abrupt. (Hear. hear.) I
believe myself that if this house adopted the measure I
proposed in 1840 and 1841. or the mea.ure I proposed
shinier to that which was adopted in 1846—that either of

these measures continuing for some years would have pre-
pared the agricultural interest for that complete freedom of
trade which now exists. (Hear, hear.) I cannot but
feel fur the distress of the agricultural interest as
an interest which is on? of the main sources

of the prosperity or 04mo/eq. of the country, and
as being peculiarly cowl...reed with the landed intense.
But whilst I soy this much the hon. and learned gentle-
man must not suppose that I think the adoption of a fixed
duty in 18W or 1811 would have be .n the foundation of a
system of permanent duty on the admission of foreign corn.
(Meer.) 'f he progress of opinion' the increase of utanufae-
tures and commerce would have led befere this time, or by
this time, to some such law es that which we now have.
(Cheers.) But be that as it troy, my opinion decidedly is
that parliament has adopted that system which is centeurent
withthe great interests of the country, tends materially to its
hapiness, and eyen to its polttical and moral tranquillity.
(Cheers.) I believe that if instead of the proposition of
8413, and also of the abuiiton of the corn laws,
the government of the dey kid endeavoured to main-
tain protection to the last hour, tiny would fell in
, their object, and that whatever adventures the eeri-
cultural interest might derive from that eyst-in,
I agreat portion of the atfeetions of the nation would he lost
in consequence, net only to the agriculturel interest but to
the authorities of the country, who would lose much of
that resets et and regard to which tiny ought to be entitled.
(Hear, hear.) Therefore I cannot think that we have
adopted a plan which is et variance with the best intereve of
the country. (Hear.) 1 never pretended to say—thenech
others thought it not unreasonable to eoejecture--that any
particular price of cons would prevail. Too many is:renal-
stances, Oa many elette nts entered into the question of
price, to allow any one to perceive, at lease fir some years to
come, the particular price of city article of agricultural
produce. I never preceeded MI any other coneideretion than
this, that if a great manufacturing population, and a great
commercial pupulatien, were in a very thriving rendition,
and in the habit of consuming str.at quantities of
costly food, they should be allowed to get it with-
out any undue impediments king thrown in their
way. I cannot think that the agrieultetral interest is totally
dependent—us a corn law induced them to depend—in
a certain price of wheat in any particular month ur year.
It may be that the landed owners were induced, under the
operations of a cent low, to extend the wheat crop. But
great changes in the law cannot fail to he accompanied by
great changes in habits :mil manacle. so doubt great
changes have taken place with regent to agriculture, but it
is impossible not to see, ate my hon. (need who seconded the
address showed, that Ler the large and inerereing popula-
tion of this country you must expect a gnat hien aire in the
demand for meat. My hon. friend has told you that au in-
erten! of 30,000 oxen I.IIIIIS into the market of Ciiitelow in
one year. That is but a sample, which show e you that
agriculture is far better protected by a prosperous state of
manufactnres and commerce than by protective laws.
(Hear, hear.) The hon. and leaned gentleman says
that this is the second year in which the eleecuities of the
landed interest have he' a rebind to in the speech front
the throne. But in 183 d and 1837, when price., though
with a protective system, were no low as now, I remember
that on both these occueions, meteion was nude, in the
speech from the throne, of agricultural distress. (Hear,
hear.) I theretbre cannot believe that any lew which you
can pass, or any re usury such us that hinted ut by the hon.
and learned gettle man, can write agriealture from !ow
prices occashinally. (Iheer.) lint there are at poet nt
two circumstances which intluertee prices. It alwaysleappina
that when there is a great dearth of an nrtiele, when there
is a very high price at a particular time, that high price is
followed by increased production and that m ern preelec-
tion again produces che emcee. Then cheapness saris pro-
duces an increased tentand, and with the demand the price
rises. In the year 11441 we exteerienced greet suffering in
this country. We had en unequal harvest. In France they
was protection and high Inks..., and yet the French farmers
eenentlained of being tu a state of great :eel unexempliel (li—
ntel.. The system we have adopt, el mast lie considered et, a
whole ; it must be considered as Arlie:big muny articles
of manufacture and many articles of agriculture; and
parliament must he prepared to decide the epee-
tioa, if the qu -.non brotteht before it, whe-
ther it is founded on a soloed prine:ple or not.
I remember that Nome quarter of a century :we. when Mr.
Huskieson was introdueing, so.newleet timidly, change's
with respect to certain articles of manufecture—he task the
article of gloves. For a lone while we heard nothing :note
frequently in this hon' than complaint, teat the ntanufite-
tunes of gloves istuld not make vier, es wed or KO cheap
a. the French neenufacturer, and that they must be totally
ruined; and see seen: implored to wear bud and dear gloves
in order to maintain the manufacturers of Yeovil and
ether places. Mr. Huskisson did not listen to theme
complaints. It helmeted fortunately that this glove
interest was not powerful enough to induce this house
to depart from its resolutions. Well, no doubt there was
distress for a time ; we have no reaeou to suspect that the
complaints then made were ill founded. But what do I
hear at the present day, some fineuttel-twenty yews after
those changes were mule ? Why, I learn front trustworthy
sources, from persons in that part of the country, that the
glove manufacture was never se flourishing at Yeovil
as it is now (h, er, hear) ; that the country fir eight or
ten miles mum' is asked to furnish members of dif-
ferent families to be employed is the eleve trade -,
and that, although we were told that gloves could not be
made so good or eo cheap there as in keemee, gloves are now
exported to that country, and find there a ready sale.
(Hear, hear.) This may he a small example, but I hope it
will prove sufficient to Convince hon. gentlemen that the
system which we adopted was founded upon sound princi-
ples, and that it is one that we ought to continue. I cer-
tainly cannot hold out to the hon. end learued gentleman
any expectation that a ?re duty i.likely to establithed either
by this or by any other parliament. Putting reedy any opinions
or prejudice, which the present government may entertain,
I am quite sure that the me misers of a government sitting
on three benches, when they came to investigate the ques-
tion, and to inquire into the eieinions and disposition of the
people of thisecountry, would shrink from imposing any duty
on the importation of foreign corn. (Hear, hear.) I do
not believe that a ss, duty would lie viewed hey the farmers
in any other light than as a symptom of a return to protec-
tion, and as justifying a hope that a latter duty or a sliding
scale would thereafter be imposed. But that very expecta-
tion on the part of the friends of pretettion would alarm
all who have enjoyed the benefits of the present
system. (Hear, hear.) And I mutt say, that although
there is distress among the occupiers of land, every account
which I have show's that in the agricultural districts, as
well as in the manufacturing, the great meet of the labour-
ing people never had such cumin:nisi of the necessarice of
life as they have ut the present time. ((Imre) I was to-
day looking at a calculation which shows that these who had
lees. a week and now here 10s., with their his. could com-
mand sixteen loaves weekly, and with their 10s. can com-
mand twenty-four ; and that those who had Ioe. formerly
and now have Bs., with their Ins. could command thirteen
loaves, and can now command nineteen. Phis is, I believe, a
very fair &ample of the general state of the labouring
population of this country. There may be certain counties
in which the wages knee diminished m a greater proPur-
tion, hut I believe that such is the general state of the
case ; and I also believe that along with the power of ob-
taining a greater quantity of bread the labouring dame.;
have, at the some time, a greater remainder of wages with
which to purchase sugar at the diminished price, and to
purchase curious other articles, comfort, of lite, which they
could not obtain before. I believe that many lebeuring
families have fresh meat who for many years previously
never saw fresh meat on their tables. Vs by, sir, if this iv the
Case, let the hon. and learned gentleman seriously consider
what a government would have to do which said to the
great mass of the people of this country, " You now have at
your command a greater quantity of the comforts of life
than you ever had before, but the system is wrung, and you
must revert to one under which year privations were great."
eYhat chance would a government have—l will not say of
passing such is measure—hut of carrying with them the
affections and esteem of the people if they could succeed in
carrying such a measure. (Hear, hear.) Although the
statements of the hon. and learned gentleman have
induced me to make these observations, I believe
that a great part of those who were favourable to
protection, notwithstanding their conviction that the
system of protection was a wise one, have now come
to the conclusion that it would not be wise for
any government to attempt to revert to it. (Hear, hear.)
Sir, I pass now to another question upon whir a great part
pf this debate etas turned, and upon which there has been
much discussion and excitement in the country for the last
three months. And in doing so, I must of course refer to
the opinions of the hon. anti learned member for Sheffield
(Mr. -Roebuck), who began this debate, and who blamed
the government, and blamed me more especially, very much
for the part which we have taken in references to this ques-
tion. The km. and learned gentleman said he approached
this question with great pain, and that it was not
merely to comply with custom that he use el those words,
but he really felt great pain upon this subject.
Now, allow me to suegeiit to rte hon. and learned igentk-
man that I think his pain would be diminished if he would
not fall into the habit of supposing that some mean motives
have always actuated parties and the leaders of parties in
this country—if he would only imagine, that although they
eet thew may have somewhat higher ntos
may differ from others in opinion, and although they may be
utterly mistaken
tives for their conduit than he at present Wean to suppose.
(Hear.) It really must be painful to be thinking that none