The Express.
London, England, 1848-07-04 00:00:00

THE E X PRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, JULY 4, 1848,

Sir J. PAKINOTON rose to move that instead of the
sum of 13s. proposed to be inserted, the sum of 10s. be sub-
stitut. din its place. lie had some reason to complain of
having been charged by the noble lord with a desire to em-
barrass the government and delay the resolutions. The
noble lord wars the cause of both. The. first, by his vacilla-
tion, in having. on the 29th May, stated that he would not
alter the sugar laws; and then, on the 16th June, coming
down with the resolutions n w before the house. The se-
cond by not havins taken measures at an earlier perio fd. He
had no reason to regret the course he had taken, or the
small usajotity by which the former question hail been car-
Tied showed that, but for the state of parties, the government
would not have bad a majority. Tire differential duty pro-
posed by the government was wholly inedequstu to
effect the object they professed to have in view.
Nothing but 1.01. would insure the prosperity of
the \Vest Indies, and he founded this opinion on the
statement which he made the other night as to the compara-
tive cost of production is free and slave.lalsour colonies.
The right hon. hart. the member fur Ripon had stated that
he proved too much in making the statement as to compara-
tive cost, bat iu istimaiing it at lie. 9il. per cwt. cheaper in
the slave colonies than ii the free-labour colonies he hail,
he believed, nun the correct data, and he must remind the
right hon. baronet that he never said the present difference
ICU to remain fixed; it might and would be diminished by
the reductions now help g effected in the West Indies in the
rates of labour and in the general coat of cultivation. He
also denied that the interest of the consumer forbad the
imposition of a lOs. duty ; but he did admit that the
question was one of revenue. Before he entered
upon that point he would admit the truth of
the observed n made by the right hon. baronet the
member for Tamworth, that it would he impossible to re-
turn again ea the distinctions th .t existed before the acts of
1945 and ISIS between slave end free-labour sugars. There
were, he regretted to say, insurmountable obstacles; but
they offered no obstacle to the imposition of a 10s. duty. It
was not, as had been stated, to impose an additional 44. on the
price of sugar, but to reduce the duty by that amount that
he had brought forward his proposition. To revert to the
question of revenue, whilst he admitted that such did exist,
he must declare he was not deterred by it, considering that
the interests of the British West India colonies were at issue.
He was of opinion that his .ight hon. friend the Chancellor
of the Exchtquer had wry mush risen...mod tho lees to
the revenue wnicti a 10s. duty would necessitate. The right
boo. baronet had estimated the loss rt 960,0001. wag
prepared to show it would be nothing like that sum; aAI
he also must say he differed on two important points from
his right hon. friend's former statements as to the quantity of
sugar consumed in the kingdom, and as to the
amount of sugar which might be expected in
the ensuing year from the British possessions in the
East and West India. The amount of sugar which
would enter into consumption in the kingdom in the ensuing
year, and pay duty, was estimated by hie right hon. friend at
310,000 tore; he (Sir J. Pakington) considered that the
least estimate of the amount which would be consumed,
foreign and British together, would be 325,000 tons; and the
quantity of British sugar which would be imported in the
next year, so far from being 240.000 tone, as estimated,
would not exceed at the most 225,000, as the Mauritius
would send very little. Taking, therefore, the whole con-
sumption at 32.5,000, and the British produce at 225,000,
there would remain 100,000 tons of foreign sugar to he
entered in order to complete the required quantity. The
225,000 tons of British sugar at 101., would produce
2,250,0001. Time 100,000 tons of colonial sugar at 20.. a cwt.,
would produce 2,0e0,0001., making a total of 4,250,0001.
revenue for the ensuing year. The sugar duties produced
3,953,2051. in 1846 In the year 1847 they amounted
to 4282,4691. Taking them at 4,250,000/. for the
next , year, the loss, as compared with 1847, would
only be 182.0001, instead of 960,0001., and as com-
pared with 1846 there would be again of 296,7951. lie had
thus his cue as f as the revenue was concerned.
The next point was howar long he proposed that the diffe-
rential duty was to last, and also whether it should ind sud-
denly or not. He had no decided opinion as to the period
which the 10s. duty ought to continue; and as to the other
question, he should refuse to answer it. He was net sur-
prised at the smiles of hon. members opposite, considering
the number of changes that had been made in the sugar
duties within the last four years. With respect, however, to
the duration of the 101. duty, he wee prepared to fix that at
three years, as he considered it politic to fix a specific time.
Having thus stated his views, ann the grounds upon which
they rested, he begged to thank the committee for the atten-
tion with which they had listened to him, and to wive, as
an amendment, that a 10s. duty on British sugar be imposed,
instead of 135., as proposed by the government.
The CHAIRMAN having put tee question,
Mr. H. DRUMMOND said that the question of free trade
in sugar was not he felt satisfied settled by the division of
the other evening, nor would it be settled by the time they
arrived as the year 18.54. It had been treated differently by
all parties in that house; by some as a free trade question,
by others as a slavery question, and by a great number se a
question of protection. No one had, however, given a clue
whereby its difficulties could be unravelled. In his opinion
it was a question of free trade, and all the light that had as
yet been thrown upon it on his sde of the house was by
making the not very novel or ingenious proposal of taxing
one part of the corunanuity for the benefit of another smaller
portion, under the name of protection. Bir unless all the
Queen's subjects were alike protected, it was unjust to protect
any portion of them. The fact was, notwithstanding all their
maxims of political economy the house was afraid of free
trade- If they were not, why was Scotch whisky taxed
more than English ? Why was Catalan timber taxed and
British limier let go free? The whole system of taxation
required revision. With respect to the slavery port of the
subject, he had long been associated with Mr. Zachary I
Macaulay, but he never went with that excellent person
as to the means by which slavery was to he abolished. He
rather took the views expressed by Mr. Brougham, when he
proposed to make it piracy to have slaves on hoard a ship,
and thought that hanging a few captains at the yard-arm
world produce soon a salutary effect. Why did not England
station her men-of-war at Cuba, if her government was
anxious to stop the slave trade ? The West Indian planters
had not been fairly treated. Their slaves bad been
arbitrarily valued at 20,000,0001., and they had been
premised the apprenticeship system and protection, of
both which they had been deprived. The legislature had
broken all its bargains with the West India planters. He
distrusted alike the statements made by the Manchester
gentlemen and the Colonial-office authorities respecting the
West Indies. What those colonies had a right to demand
was the free admission of their sugars and all other produce
into the kingdom, and free permission to import labourers
wherever they could. Las than that they ought not to be
satisfied with, and it was necessary in order to carry out the
principles of free trade and free labour so much insisted on
by hon. member. opposite.
Sir J. PAKINOTON here observed that if his amend-
ment was adopted by the committee he should next propose
as a consequence that the duty on foreign sugars be con-
tinued at 20s.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had so un-
derstood the hon. helmet.
V. SMITH denied the justice of the statement
.0 boo. member for East Surrey as to the inade-
quate compensation granted for the slaves in the West
Indies. He would remind hon. members who were
-as clamorous about the claims of the West Indians,
' the small amount of compensation, that the ori-
-1 suggestion with that view was a loan of 15,000.0001.
that tie change from that toe grant of 20,000,0001. was
Cirtadvance upon record. He denied that there ever
y °attract entered into mother country
Were= to giving the colonies a monopoly of the home
market, or guaranteeing to them a supply of free labour. As
`o the apprenticeship, it was a matter of history that the con-
e, of the planters in some of the islands to their appren-
kjeg caused the loaded :Monstrance' in England, and

that the system was at last abolished by the colonial legislas
tures. Then as to the supply of free lalseur, he domed that
there bad been any contract on that point-The whole tone (Atha
debate on emancipation went to prove that free labeur could
compete with slave ha
lie was sorry to admit that in
his opinion that doctrine was nothing more tbae a philan-
thropic fallacy. He believed that free labour could not com-
pete with slave—(hear, hear),--but nevertheless that wee;
the understanding nd belief during the debates on em.enci-
pation. The re was only one: reteure, thet er starvation,
Which could get oat of free Labourers in the West Indies as
much work as in foreign colonis the lash obtained from
slaves. (Hear, hear.) The boa.e member who had moved
the amendment had on the present occasion thrown aside
the veil under which he had on a former evening sought to
obtain • few striae votes, but that was only another instance
of what he (Mr. S t.ith) had always deemed to be the great
misfortune of the West Indies, namely—that questions
effecting their interests were always in that
honse made the subject of party struggle. (Hear, hear.)
It had been so in 1810, when the hon. baronet himself and
the hon. member for Inverness voted against the introduc-
tion of relies. (Hear, hear.) The hon. baronet had re-
commended his amendment by saying that it would relieve
the producer without inflicting any loos on the consumer,
but he had not proved that it could be carried nut without
inflicting a serious lost on the revenue. It was admitted that
there would he risk of loss to the amount of 182,0001 , and
he (Mr. Smith) was not prepared to risk that amount in the
present state of the national finances. (Hear, hear.) If the
West Indians had a claim for compensation on account of
reduction of price, why might not the growers of corn in this
country put forward a similar claim? The great question wes,
wha was ultimately to become of those colonies ? His
belieti was, that those which survived the present distress
would ultimately flourish, but that those which could not I
would grow out of cultivation altogether. When WAS the
protection now asked fan to end ? The hon. baronet had
come down from six years (the recommendation of the com-
mittee) to three; but it made little &if vence, as at the end
of either period the coloidats would infallibly come to that
house for • renewal. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. mem-
ber for Coventry recommended a closer attention to colonial
caper se, as one remedy for West Indien distress. He eon-
curved in most of the right hon. member's suggestions, but
certainly not in that portion which went to give to the colonists
the election of their governors. That would he vii twiny
yielding up sovereignty ; and certainly, it it were
done, he saw no reason why we should any
longer send out troops to maintain;the governor's authority.
As to the discriminating duty now proposed, he did not see
how it could be carried out without loss both to the revenue
and consumer. Besides, it was net what the planters asked
for theme, Ives. lie held in his band a petition from the
agents of Bubadoes, Autigus, Montserret, St. Kitt's, and
the Virgin Islands, the prayer of which was that there
should be a protection of 10s. per cat., as against foreign
free labour sugar, and a practical exclusion against foreign
slave grown sugar, or else 15s. per cwt. against all foreign
sugar without distinction. (Hear, he v.) The Chancellor
of the Exchequer had thrown fresh blood into the discussion,
hy his announcement of a former evening
. the lie congao
congratu-
latedu-
the right hon. gentleman on
state of affairs which he understood had greatly
improved confidence in the City, and he conceived that the
West India question should be settled without any rennin
to such considerations. As he had said before, he did not
think that the right bon. baronet's amendment ceu:al be
eel out without toes to th revenue, and therefore he
should decidedly give his vote against it.
Mr. B. COCHRANE was of opinion that this c ninny
was hound in good faith and common honesty to grant to
the West Indies the relief asked for by his lion. friend the
member for Droitwich. Ile would remind the heave that up
to 1807 this house had not only sanctioned, but positively
enacted, the slave trade, and that in the reign of Charles I I.
the monopoly of that trade was granted to the Queen Dow-
ager and the Duke of York. Their recent legislation hail
injured the West Indies, while it had encouraged
slavery, and ultimately it would not cheapen sugar, because
when our colonies were thrown completely out of cultivation,
the slave-holders having a monopoly could dictate their own
price. From a wish to proti act our colonial empire, an lto
preserve the national faith, he should certainly give his vote
for the amendment of his hon. friend.
Mr. SPOONER said he had voted for the government
proposition of 1846 because he bad thought that when the
protection on corn was remosed, the einsumers in this coun-
try should be relieved front the protection on sugar. Ile
el ould, however, on the j resent occasion, vote for his hon.
friend's amendment, because he believed that the govern-
ment proposition had been universall condemn. d by the
House of Commons. (Hear, hear) Pery ty alone had given
them their miserable majority, but never on a majority
so composed had any previous government pressed
an important measure upon parliament. (Hear,
hear.) lie must confess
azure L
oft
he should I
never have voted for the measure oft 1846 had he
thought that it would give so great a stimulus to the slave
trade. They were then told as an inducement to pees the
bill that antislave treaties were in active progress with Bra-
zil, w herees the fact was, that at this moment we were fur-
ther from accord with Brazil on the subject that. ever.
looked upon)
Any eneourag. ment of the slave-trade he
ooked upon as a national sin, and this reason strongly
urged him to vote for the amendment. With respect to the
loan, he should deal with it as a grant, because he knew it
would never be paid, and he protested against any such
grant to enable West Indians to import labour
while thousands of labourers were out of employment
in this couutry. Let the government look to the
state of Stafferdshire, where one eetablishment had
during the previous week stopped work, thus throwing
upwards of 2,000 hands out of employment. He need,
would those na,n hear with satisfaction that they were to be
taxed to enable government to grant 500,0001. to the Wed
Indians in aid of the importation of labour ? (Hear, hear.)
But this was only the beginning. At a meeting of the iron
muter*, preparatory to the quarterly me2ting, it was deter-
mined to reduce the price to 61. 10s. per ton, it being well
known that it could not be manufactured at less than 81.
The consequence of this must be that all the workmen would
the dismissed unless they submitted to an enormous reduction
of wages. la fact, never during the whole of his experience
were the great staples of the country is such a state of de-
pression as at the present moment. Having the opinion he
had stated of the government proposition, and at the same
time wishing to discourage slavery and the slave trade, he
felt bound to support the saneudinent of his hon. friend the
member for Droitwich.
Mr. GODSON contended that while the West India colo-
nies had strictly adhered to their part of the contract entered
into at the period of emancipation, this country had broken
faith with them, first in opening the British market to slave-
grown produce ; secondly, in putting an end to the state of
apprenticeship before the expiration of the time stipulated ;
and thirdly, in neglecting to provide means for the intro-
duction of free labour into the colonies. It was compl laud
that the government plan involved an advance of 500,0001.
for the purpose of facilitating the immigratioe of labourers ;
but those who made that complaint should remember that
the 20,000,0001. of which they bad beard so much had never
been paid in lull. The amount which had been paid was only
18,619,4021., and it was rather too much, with a balaniT of
1,330,5981. due to the colonies, to object to a temporary
advance of 500,0001. to assist in carrying out that which was
one of the conditions undertaken by this country when it
paned toe Emancipation Act. All that was asked by the
proposition of his hon. friend was, that the house should
come back to what ought to have been the arrangement of
1846. The noble lord had told the house that the difference
of va'ue between foreign and colonial sugar was Gs. in fa-
vour of the former ; and the evidence before the committee
showed that it could not be lees than 4s. 6d. If the noble
lord's statement was correct, the difference of duty from
July, 1547, to July, 1818—viz., 20s. and 141 , was just sal-
cleat to place the two articles on equal terms, and in point of
fact, there had been free trade in near dun ing the last year
—(hear, hear)—and the effect of the act, if continued, would
be in Mel, vsh, n it reduced the duly of foreign sugar to 145.,
leaving that on colonial sugar at ;the same rate, to give
a bounty to the foreign slave-grown as against the colo-
nial free-labour produce of not less than 4s. 6d. • cwt.,
taking the lower estimate, or 41. 10s. a ton. (Cheers.) The
price current of Drake, Brothers, sad Co., of the Havannsh,
for 1844, stated that there was no expectation of improve-
ment in the price of Cuba sugar unless the markets of
England should be thrown open to it—and it this could
be effected at 50s. per cwt. their produce would double
in value. And in the price current of 1847 It was
stated that that sugar had been kept up at its pre-
sent high rate, notwithstanding the abundant crop-, by
the extensive shipments to the United Status and Great
Britain. (Hear, hear.) Here then was the evidence of the
Cuba houses themselves as to the advantage their slave-
strewn produce had over that of our free.labour colonies.
(Hear, hear.) Again, as this country reduced the duty on
the sugar of the Brazils or Cuba, those countries would in-
crease the tax en its export in the same proportion, and the
result would be that the consumer here would be
Peeing the taxes fur maintaining the government of
foreign countries. lie believed sugar might be raised in the
Brazils or Cuba at a coat of 10s. a cwt., while the cat in our
West India colonies might be taken at 20s. If that was the
case, a duty of 10i. on the one and 203. on the other, as pro-
posed by the amendment of his hon. friend, would place
beth on equal terms. With regard to any loss to the reve-
nue, that was a matter very little cared for in 1846 ; and
when it was said that the increased consumption had in •
great part made up any loss that was anticipated, he must
take leave to remind them that the amount accruing to the
revenue for such increased consumption bad been paid out
of the remaining capital, and not out of the profits, of the
West India proprietors—(hear, hear)—who had been com-
pelled
by the legislation of parliament to enter into a ruinous
competition with the slave-owner. Government having found
that they were mistaken in the course they took in 1846, now
proposed to go Peek just far enough to admit the wrong,
hut not fare nough to put themselves and parliament right.
(Hear.) By keeping up the differential duty the revenue
would be kept up, and with this advantage—that it would
be paid by the foreigner, and he had very little doubt that,
in 18.51, whoever was Chancellor of the Exchequer, would
come down to the house and propose to stop the running
down of the differential scale upon the best of all principles
—thet of taxing the foreigner rather than our own people.
Mr. M'CULLAOII referred to the frequent complaints of
distress put forward by the West India interest as arising
from competition, and observed that the evidence before the
late committee, if it proved anything, proved that our West
India colonies, notwithstanding the advantages they had
in machinery exported from England, were under-
gold, not by slave-labour states only, but by fo-
reign Iree-labour countries, and enn by our own Esst
India possessions. They were undersold by Java, end in
fact by every sugar growing country where there was free
labour and improved cultivation. It WAS the fault of the
proprietors themselves that the negroes were not in • condi-
tion for free industry when emancipation was granted as they
alleged in :their memorial, inasmuch as they had neglected
to attend to the repeated appeals of parliament to ameliorate
the condition of their slaves; and with regard to the break-
ing off of the period of apprenticeship, what had occurred in

Antigua proved that theta wallatlfhieff in that argument. In
that island three were at once emancipated ; and after ail
years' experiment, it was stated by the late Mr. Gurney,
when ha visited the island M 1840, that the free negroes
were working elesally and profitably, and that he was told
by t:de planters that the money they received for emancipa-
iaon was a gratuity put into their pockets, for that their had
was worth as much without slavery as with it. Sir E. Cole-
brook, the governor_fi hod confirmed that statement.
advanced
by the hon. member for Warwick were reasons against the
proposition which he stated he intended .o vote for. lie told
the house that the state of wages and employment in this coon
try were such as not to admit of additional taxation. (Bear.)
It so, why attempt to levy an additional tax on an article
which had now become a necessary of life? (Bear, hear.) '
To say that Id. or 2d. a lb. in the price of sugar was a mat-
ter of no importance argued an ignorance and disregard of
the wants and comforts of the labouring classes which he
could not understand. Those who could command the luau.
rice of life at will should bear in mind that it was a matter of
great importance to the poor whether they were deprived of
the means of ob'aining one of their few comforts, much less
that which was now to them an article of necessity, or not.
(Hear, hear.) The influence of cheap sugar in diminishing
the use of ardent spirits, and promoting habits of temperance
both in this country and Ireland, was a matter not to be over-
looked. As free labour was the labour of civilisation, and I
the appliance of civilisation, it must drive out of the field
slavery, which was the appliance of barbarism. (Bear.)
Mr. SPOONER explained that he was no advocate for
rai mg the price of sugar. it was the duty of parliament to
wive sugar to the consul. er at the lowest price consistent
with what was due to other great interests. But the pro-
, position before the committee did not go to increase the
price of auger, but to lower the duly on colonial auger;
and the whole argument of his hon. friend (Sir J. l'uking-
ton) went to show that the effect of his ptoposition would be

to Inwir the price.
Mr. MANGLES, as one who had voted for the hill of
1846, sod who was a sincere believer in the soundness of the
doctrine of free.trade, wished to explain why he thought
this question was an exception from that doctrine, and way,
therefore, he felt compelled to support the claims of the West
I mile colonies. lie hail no interest in or coot...lion with the
%Vest Indies, and having a bat, in favour or the p dky if the
noble lord, he le gretted
washtat lie wee compelled to y-te against
him. The question not tetvreen the consumer of this
country and the labour, r in the %Vest Indies, as the noble
lord had put it, but between the consumi r here and the em-
ployer of labour in the West Indies. (liter, hear.) It was
his conviction that this country had been guilty of continued
and systematic injustice to our Wet Indian colonies, and
that we were (round now, at whatever expense to ourselves, to
render them justice. The appeals to the interest of the cue-
sumer, therefore, were not fair in discussing this question.
What was paid for emancipation, and it must be remem-
bered that slavery had been previously lore( d on the West
Indies. was to be regarded not so much as compensation as a
fine for a national sin. But the nation having forced eman-
cipetion on the colonies afterwards broke its engagement
with them by suddenly and prematurely putting an end to
the period of limrentict.hip. (Hear.) Then, as to immigra-
tion, this country was bound from tne moment slavery
Was abolished to provide the colonies with a supply of free
labour. (Hear.) No one could have supposed—he and =my
others who had advocated emancipation had never expected
—that free labour it confined to the emancipated negro would
be cheaper or as cheap as slave labour ; when he end others
contended for the superior cheapness of free over slave la-
bour, they meant free labour as open to the competition of
the labour of the world. But instead of facilitating the at-
tainment of free labour by the West Indian colonic-, the
Colonial-office had been systematic in their attempts to ev ale
the obligation by which this country was bound. (Hear.)
He believed the noble lord himself had admitted that the
Asti-Slavery Association had had its vie fight in this reap( c•
with the Colonial-oftice, and with the legislature ; and the
Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies, in Lis evidence
before the committee, admitted the same when he
said that the legislature had been too much in-
fluenced by consideratio-a which no huger prevailed.
The noble lord would doubtless remember the stoppage put
to the admission of free labour into the Mauritius, contempo-
raneously with the abolition of apprenticeship, causing as it
did great ruin. The government prevented the plasters
from going to Bombay, Madras, and Calcutta, for the labour
they required; while no lees than 17,000 coolies walked a
whole district up to Calcutta, in or& r to go to the:Mauritius.
It was, besides, the greatest injustice to the people of India
not to allow them to take their labour to •he market which
was ready for them. In 1841, the %Vest Indian colonists pre-
, seated a requisition to the government for 9,100 coolies, and
the government, such w..s their machinery and such their
zeal, only supplitd the colonists with 1,02 e, being less than
one-ninth of the number demanded. The following year they
represented their great want of labour, and asked for
15,000, and the government sent them 7,0e5, being less than
one-half. Now, these he only gave as spt eimens of the way
in which the West Indies had been treated in regard
Itoo the
supply of labour. The hon. gentleman next quote ome
evidence to show that the labourers returning from the
Mauritius were greatly Improved in condition—that many
of them returned with full purses, will that only those com-
plained who came back without money or character. As
for the m irtality referred to by the hon. m-mber for the
Tower Hazel es (Mr. 'fhompson), he had only to observe that
it was not greater than that which took place in European
regiments in India. lie thought these facts were sulfifient
to show that the government had done what they ought riot,
and le undone what it was their duty to do. They had
thrown every ointscle in the way of free emigration, and
the West Indies had iu consequence the strongest claims
upon that house. He must add, that the Anti Slavery So.
ciety were alto greatly to blame for the manner in which
theyeaided the government in their struggle to prevent the
West Indies from getting a proper supply of libour. 'Lett
society had done all in its power to verify the statement that
it WM impossible for free-labour to compete with slave-
labour. Now, on that point, he believed that British India,
which had been referred to, was not a fair test. He be-
lieved that the slave trade could only be put down by free
labour, and by enabling it to compete fairly with slave-la-
bour. But the Anti-Slavery Society had done their utmost
to prevent that result, by throwing every obstacle
in the way of obtaining free labour. lie thought
that for a time it was necessary to give the West
Indies the advantage proposed by the amendment of the
hon. member for Droitwich ; but lie thought also, that with
a view to ameliorate their condition, steps should be taken
to improve their mode of cultivation, particularly by irriga-
tion, and that measures should be iminediat. ly adopted toe
reducing the expenditure of administration, which was in
some instances most monstrous. He bad no interest in the
question, and nothing sat a strong sense of public duty ,
inductd him to oppose
.on the present occasion the noble lord,
whom he almost invariably supported.
Mr. ROBINSON had voted against the government on
the last division, and was prepared to do so on t is. The
noble lord had said that his object was twofold—to adhere to
the bill of 1446, and to afford the people of this country
a cheap supply of sugar; but the noble lord in his anxiety to
effect the latter quite lost eight of the former object, having
altogether abandoned the principle of the bill of 1816 by
extending the period of protection for three years longer,—
namely, to 1851. No one in that house was more convinced
than wu he (Mr. Robinson) that it was the duty
of parliament by every means in its power to cheapen
the necessaries of life to the consumer, psalm.
larly at the present moment, when with an increasing
population there was a diminution is the demand for la- 1
hour. And be admitted that the immediate effect of the
noble lord's measure wonld be to theapen sugar. But by
depriving the West Indks of
[protection, and exposing them
hereafter to the competitionsuch eventually would
be the effect? Was he not more likely. by such a course,
to transfer the trade altogether from our possessions to Cuba
and Brazil, sad by giving them a monopoly to raise the
price of sugar to a price quite as high, if not higher, than it
was at present ? Now, it had hi en said that the proprietors
of estates
hat in the West Indies ought to be resident,
and at if they were much of the evil would be
remedied. In answer to that, and to show that resident
proprietors had just as much reason to complain as the ab•
sentees, let him quote the opinion of the Hon. Mr. Gordon,
himself a resident planter, and cultivating his own estate in
Jamaica. That hon. gentleman said, speaking of the seri-
cultural state of the parish of St. Andrew, that in 1812 it
I contained twenty-two sugar estate s which yielded 3,000
I hogsheads of sugar at 60 0001., and with the rem, ste., pro
dueed altogether 17.5,0001. per annum ; wh in 1847
there were only twelve estates, yielding only five hogeheads
of sugar, the entire income amounting to 15,9001., showing
a deficiency in the annual production of that single
parish of 159,0001. The same gentleman went on to
say that he himself was a ruined MIR —thatthe estate which
some years ago gave him an income of 10.0001. did not now
produce as many pence This was strong evidence to show
that he residents were suffering just as much as the Owners
of estates residing in this country. lie regretted to be
I obliged to say that the noble lord at the head of the Colonial
department seemed much disposed to act the part of a
dictator, and assume the power of governing these colonies
according to his own will, paying no attention to the state-
' ments of the planters or governor. lie would not
impute to Lord Grey, or the Under Secretary,
that which was imputable to the office itself, which
he ,regarded as the worst administered of the govern-
I ment departments, owing in a great degree to the diver-
sity.of interests concerned, the number of our colonial pee-
seastons, and the utter impossibility of any one man, now-
them
reat his talents, usefully and efficiently to superintend
all. He saw no reason why there should not be a
board constituted for the colonies similar to the Board of Ad-
miralty. But to return to the condition of the colonies, he
found that within the last seven years there had been a
diminution in West India exports alone of 1,069,0001.
ge would not now enter into the question of free trade,
falsely so called—free imports, he would rather call it, or
unlimited encouragement to foreign manufactures. It was
said that the continuance of protection would be a reUrograde
movement as regarded free trade; but he contended that
there could be no free trado without strict reciprocity,
thereby producing cheap prices and cheap labour. The
free trade psrty—die Manchester party, he would call them
—invariably argued as though cheap prices would be an ad-
vantage ; but it was of much more importance to the la-
bourer to have constant employment and remunerative
wages, than to be enabled to buy his sugar at a penny or
twopence per pound cheaper. Admitting the disturbing
influences of the destruction of the potato crop in 1846,
i• bad harvest and the consequent mercantile depression,
he was still convinced that the longer free trade mea-
sure* were persisted in, the greater would be the diffi-
culties in which the country would be involved. Calico,
which a few years ago cost 12d. or 13d. a yard, was now pro-
duced at Mancliestsr for 2Sii. Supposing a further reduction
to lid., bow was the manufacturer to be remunerated for
his capital, and at the some time give good wages to his
labourer? At the bidding of the economists, protection had
been taken away from some Interests ; the consequence was
mutual jealousy amongst all infants, sad a desire to deprive

those
reelection for the sake of the loaded interest, the West
d protection which still enjoyed it. Heald not advo-
cate p
the system wader which this country existed,and
_enabling
it to yield the vast amount of taxation which
i
Indiums,
to bear.
or the shipowners ; but for the sake of supporting
t had
Already the effects of frog trade bad been manifest in the
revenue; and while rejoicing to hear the statement which the
hancellor of the Exchequer had made In his second budget
an Friday night, he was still opposed to any further relaxation
of protection. As to the West Indies, sound policy and the
inter sts of the empire at large demanded that they should
have a protection of 10s. fur fully six year., to enable them
suctorfully to struggle with the intense competition of slave-
our colonists would eventually be able to compete with Cuba
governinent assumed that
laanbdo our
T..
be
yp ovproa
yi tislight of
increase t h e
of the existing differen-
tial duties. This was nothing more than "letting them
down easily," and their ulimate ruin would be inevitable.
Be regarded these colonies as a main source of wealth and
power to this country ; he therefore objected to do anything
injurious to their interests, which might perhaps convert
them, into open hostility, and lead to their becoming sp.
pends tee of another nation. There was • general
impression in the colonies that injuetice had been
dune them by parliam.nt. How would the governent
proceed if they resolved oa stopping the supplimes
In British Guiana they hart already refused to vote the sup-
plies fur more than three months, and if this example were
acted on, the government might find themselyee in an ex-
tremely cLiiicult position. The hon. member for Northamp-
ton had said that there was no bargain wielt the eoto,nies at
the time the emancipation act was passed; but if no bargain,
there had certainly been a contract, truth in 1834 and since,
to the effect that the Went Indians should be protected
against the slave islands, by having a preference for their
produce in the home market. Tots principle had been recog-
nised over and over again, by the various ministers who had
held office down to 1845, and ratified by large majorities of
the house. Now it was said we could not exclude slave-
grown auger, on account of certain treaties with the United
States and Venezuela, wnich admitted their produce on the
terms of the most favoured nations. But why, on this
account, throw the sugar-trade into e hands of the
Cuteins and the Brazilians to whthom we owed DO
obligation? Ile admitted that those who sat on his side of
the house differed as to the amount of protection riccemary ;
but that difference was no greater than existed amongst the
supporters of ministers. lie- rejoiced that the question had
at h ligth been placed on such a footing that the house must
either :Mina the proposition of government or the recom-
mendations of the West Indian committee; end he should
hare no hesitation in giving Lis support to the latter. That
committee had been fairly constituted; it consisted of men
tully competent to deal with the question ; its inquiries had
been most extensive and laborious ; and vet the noble lord at
the head of the government treated its recommendations
with absolute neglect. What would the West Indians think
of such conduct as this? (Hear.) tie far one would not
vote for an additional farthing towards the cost of sending
hammers to the colonies, convinced that such a measure
would only aggravate the listless of the colonists.
Mr. A. OSWALD said the government had departed
from the bill of 1846, and had thereby admitted the neces-
sity of increased protection. lie (Mr. Oswald) had voted for
the bill of 1846 ; but that was owing to hie being without the
information which had been supplied by the West Indian
committee. (Rear.) Amongst the press, metropolitan
and provincial, there was a universal chorus of dissent (rem
the government plan. Was the house to sing another song ?
11 so, it was high time to take into consideration the proposal
of the hon. member for Montrose. Seeing nothing before
him but the plan of the government and the recommenda-
tion of the committee, he was prepared fully to support the
latter, heedless of any taunt of inconsistency that might be
directed against him. (Hear, hear.) He feared there was
too much inconsistency in that boom. (Laughter.) He
found from the Economist newspaper that the production of
the \Vest Indict had decreased one-half between
1834 and 1841, owing to the inadequate supply
of labour, and the previous unw Lolefeime stimulus
of protection. Ito believed the former to be the
true and the tole reason. For this injustice the house wan
responsible, and must pay the price. lle represented a large
constituency (Ayrshire), but did not believe that any oil
woman there would like to have sugar for her tea or her
" whiskytoddy " a penny a pound cheaper, it thereby an
injustice was inflicted on others. (Hear, hear.) He would
answer for the Name feeling existing in the mind of every
man, women, and child, engaged in menufactures in the
county he represented. What might be the case at Man-
chester he could not say. An eminent Scottish mercantile
firm, whale founders had left an ample fortune, had recently
succumlied to the pressure ; and in toe circular to their cre-
ditors they attributed their failure to the measures of 1816.
(Heat, hear.) As to the increase in the slave trade, no
doubt could be entertained by any one who looked
at the returns which had been published. The
honourable member for Manchester (Mr. Bright) bad
vainly attempted to show that the slave trade could not
have increased in 1846, in cons. roiene, of the measures of
1846 ; but had he overlooked the possibility of intelligence
being sent out to the Revennah that the measure wan likely
to pass? The right hon. baronet (Sir it. Peel) had antici-
pated the time when slavery would be extinct • hut that
happy period had been anticipated long ago, even by Curran,
and he feared it was still very far distant. ( Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER mid that
the proposition of the h'.n. baronet the member for Droit-
veich was to reduce the duty on celoniol sugar from 14s. to
10*., instead of to 135., as proposed by the government, thus
making a differential duty of 104. between colonial and
foreign sugar. The hon. b ironet proposed this duty for au
indefinite time, and in the course of his spit ch he antici-
pated the objections that would probably be urged against
his proposition on the ground of its being detrimental to the
consumer and revenue. On both these grounds he objected
to the hon. baronet's proposal. He admitted that the
government ought to attend to the interest of the
West India body ; but the interest of the great
body of consumers in this country was not to be
neglected or left out of consideration. (Rear, hear.)
He certainly wee not prepared to support a System of protec
ties which would permanently increase the c at of a neces-
sary article to the consumers of this country fur the exclusive
benefit of the Wert India body. (Hear, hear 1 The hon.
gentleman who spoke last said that there was no sactilice
made by the Foyle of this country. That might be the
opinion of the old ladies of Ayrshire, who cou'd pay for the
sugar that sweetened their tea and whisky toddy ; but he I
did not think it was the opinion of the bulk of the popu-
la ion there. if the hon. gentleman referred to a paper
which had been laid on the table ef the house, he
would find that the people of this country paid in the year
1811 am less than 3,800,0001. more for their sugar than they
would have done if there had been no protection. In 1842
they paid 3,600,0001. more ; and ir. 1843 they paid
3,400,0001. Too, with toe 20,000,0001. which had been
paid in consequence of tl e Act of Easimeipation, was a pretty
substantial proof of the sympathy of the people of this coun-
try with the West Indian body. lie was not prepared to
say that they ought not to be put Cur a time in a position to
enable them to compete with slave-growing countries ; but
the country and the house had decided that protection as •
permanent system should cease. As he was not prepared to
ask for that protection which he once enjoyed as a landlord,
so he was not prepared to allow a system of permanent pro-
' Wien for the West Indians. e hon. enteman opposite
had commented on members of the governgmel nt for remark-
ing on the extravagant system of management adopted by
the Weed India planters. They had said nothing but what
had been given in evidence by those planters themselves.
He should rather think that was a source of hope, because it
held out the prospect, under a more economical system, of
being able to compete with slave-growing countries ; and he
was glad to find that the hon. member fur Goateed was of
opinion that before long free-labsur sugar would be the
cheapest in the world. His main objection to the lion-
oureble baronet's proposal was on the score of the re-
venue. Speaking on this subji et be begged to assure
the right hon. gentleman who presided over tire miscellaneous
estimates committee, who seemed to think that he had cast a
slur upon the committee, that he never felt it would be fair
on the part of the government to throw upon them the re-
sponsibility of making reductions, and that they ought to re-
lieve the government from the responsibility of doing what
they could in that respect. The hon. baronet seemed to
think that he misrepresented the probable toes to the re-
venue is the first instance. What he said was, that the pro-
bable loss at first, if the proposal of the committee were
adopted, would he 960,0001. ; and that the tint lees by the
proposal of the government would he only 240,0001., and
that it would be much easier to make up the one than the
other. Tois lose could only be made up from increased con-
sumption, and the proportion in which foreign and colonial
sugar entered into that consumption. The hon. baronet, who
followed the estimates of the committee, estimated the con-
sumption of the country next year at 325,000 tons. He con.
eideted that estimate an excess—he had no hopes that the
consumption would reach that quantity. It would give an
increase of consumption of 35,000 tons in one year. If the
hon. baronet referred to the increase of former yeah he
would find nothing to justify that calculation, with the ex-
ception of the year 1845, when there was an increase of
38,000 tons. But the hon. gentlemen must recollect that
that was a year in which the sugar duties were
largely reduced, in which free labour sugar was admitted,
and that it was a year of considerable prosperity. There
was every porwible circumstance that could tend to promote
consumption in that year ; but they. had no reason to expect
the same circumstances would exist next year. In other
an the increase was 17,000 tons, 12,000, 11,000, 23,000,
17,000, 29,000. The average increase was about 20,000
tons, and was the highest amount of consumption which
they could expect. He thought the hon. gentleman was
mistaken with regard to the proportion in which foreign
and colonial sugars would enter into consumption.
The hon. gentleman estimated the probable im..rt from
the West India colonies next year at 2000 I l tons;
and the report of the committee stated that the stock of
colonial suear in hand was from 60,000 tone to 65,000 tons,
giving a total amount of 265,000 tons of colonial magar.
Now, it must be remembered that the holders of sugar
would have every possible inducement to enter the utmost
possible amount of sugar in the next year—that is, before
July 5, 1849; and as he saw no reason why they would not
enter from 240,000 to 250,000 tons of colonial sugar in the
course of the next year, leaving a stock of about 25,000 tons
In hand, it was impossible to expect that anything like the
calculation of the hon. gentleman would be received. He
had calculated that from 300,000 to 310,000 tons would pro-
, bly be entered for home consumption, and he estimated the
probable loss to the revenue at 45,0001. There might be
a gain of 40,0001, but he would be well satisfied if the re-
venue from sugar was no lower next year than it was last year.
He might, in fairnese to the Wes: Indict, reduce sugar ls.
per cwt., but to do more would in the present state of the
finances of the country be obviously unjust. Upon the whole,
he thought he had taken a fair and reasonable course, and he
therefore must resist the boo. gentleman's proposal.
Mr. T. M. GIBSON, as a member of the committee ap-
pointed to inquire into the alleged distress in the colonise,
was anxious to make a few observatioae. He would first of
all express his regret that bee Majesty's government bad

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