The Express.
London, England, 1847-03-11 00:00:00

• IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF COMMON S.-WISDNG3DAT, MARCH 10.
The S twit the chair at twelve o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
StOOND RF.ADlNGB.—Ertinsurgh and Glasgow Railway; Great
Northern !railway (de, iahons between Peterborough, Bomm, and
Oa ; Ormt Northern Railway (deviations between Caine.
borough and L.-monster) ; (.rest Southern and We stern Railway Ex-
tension (PortarOlgton to Tullarnore;; Wo xford and Valenti& Railway
(Killarney to Veentisl Bills.
THIRD READlN6B.—Markets and Pairs Clause.% Commissioners
Chimes, Gerworks t.laurea Water-workwelawsea
ru PLIC BUSINESS.
PETTTIONS.—B)• the Or toot Cu. and Mr. !lane roe, from
various pieces in Ireland, against the Irish Poor-law Bill. Mr. J.
Nortin, from Maldon, fora national fast. Mr Mum a, from Birming-
ham, In favour of the hemmed victuallers of that town being ',herd
j,„; the same footing its regrrd to hours as those of the metropolis.
Sir J. S. Reuss, from a ~lace in Devonshire, againet further COrissem
SIM to the Roman Catholics. lir. W. Perms. from larmofier, for
the cneour4reakent of the growth of cotton in India. Sir Oi.o. Otto,
from L'eronport, against the Ma' et \te Act. Mr. T. Brecon am, from an
inalvid.d. Marina that DO prove, tire measures of relief he granted
to behind, untie. acennipanied by art effective poor-law. Cot. Wagon,
from the sou county of Middlesex, grata the Poor Removal Act.' Mr. C.
Howson, fem. Doerr, against the rate pa)tarr clauses of the Reform
Act
FIRST READWOS.—llarleour, DOrka, and Piers Bill.
COMMITTEE. -UsaiMge of Lad Rill.
REPORT.—Landed Property (!reland Ila
THIRD RE tOlNO.—loan
RETURNS ORDERED.—eke the motion of Mr. Greass, returns
respecting the number and locality of 'Public kontelmi to thblin, and
comes of correspondence with the Pipe Water( brnmittee on the subject
of an increased supply of water thereto, sal the commit, of erecting al.
ditlonal f ontains. hetuin of the member of; oods of bay and MM.
forfeited In Smithfield Market, Dublin, tar the 'e year. ending MS,
1841. and 1016, awl how the same or the process la thereof were dia-
pered of. On the motion of Sir R. leasiorms, re. 'von, of the levers'
counties, counties of mtiee, and margin of town in Irelind, of whirl:
the Tan anon under the act 0 and 7 W. IV.. e. 04, has been comPisted,
mecifying the same of each barony or half barmy, L.'se arreable con-
tents and thevaluation thereof; stating, also, the SUM. tiered to be le-
aded by the grand jury warrant of early: melees ISM, for mell ouch be.
✓ony or half harony ; and the rate per cent. which each such rum bears
to the valuation; aim, the PM ordered to be levied by the grand jury
warrant of swam r weir.. 1146, for each such barony or half
barony, and the rate per minim which each meta sum beats to the
valuation; stating, also, the name and 'media ardent. of este midi
comity, county of a city, and county of a Own; the annual mbar
thereof, amording to the 'donna. under that set; the amount of
the motor ef Mei valuation. the met per mire of such valuating.,
and the rats wbth Me eon of club TaillatiOS brine (a each gin() o.
the valuation : Yresa the counties of Waterbed NA Omit, spreifyiag
the name 'lamb barony or balf hareem the aerabla emus.% rid
the raltittlaniteraef; Mating, Nam eiders/ the herbda%
the grand jeuinewsat ed.
=11.0.1.1914:1104 in alriSmw— tier=
by dee Ire warned of swam asebe lede. bib vielt
toronyer half barony, and the rats per annenalglini ash midi Nam
bears to the Tabu: hon. Of the counties. Months of cities, and
counties. of towns in Ireland, except Cori it Waterford, of which
the valuation under the eft 6 and 7 W. 4, • gtB has rapt been cop,-
pleted ; specifying the name of each batting ar half barony. thr stee-
-1 able contents rxonling to the ordnance emery; stating, lino, the
cum ordered to be 'cried by the grand jury warrant of spring maims
lain, of each such barony or half barmy, and the rote per 1,100
Kerr. In the county toot for met: barony, he. ; abo, the
min ordered to be leried by the grand jury warrant of gummier amdars
1146, off each such barony or half barony, and the rate per
acres assessable in the county book for each barony, tee. Owing in ocm-
Bowdon of parliamentary paper, No. 21.4 of scream IMO!.
EDINBURGH AND PERIII RAILWAY.
Mr. F. MAULS pre.eated a petition in favour of the bill,
signed by 3,000 inhabitant* of Perth. The right hon. mem•
her then mooed that the bill he read a second time.
. . - -

—Mr. E. ELLICE, Jun., opposed the furthet progress of the
bill, on the ground that it was framed on the plans andseciions
of a former project. If the house seat it to a committee It
would be sanctioaing an act of direct piney,
Mr. LOCH supported the second reading. He considered
that the defunct company had nothing to complain of. The
chairman wee chairmen of the present company, out of whose
funds the whole expense of the plans and sections in question
had been defrayed. All the landowners, except one, were in
favour of the present line, and, therefore, he trusted that the
house would cantina the decision of the Standing Orders
Committee, and allow the bill to be proceeded with.
Mr. F. MAULS mid it bad been clearly proved that the
plans and sections had keen paid for by the proper parties.
The district through which the proposed railway was to run
was in a etafe of great destitution, and he trusted that no
technical objection would be allowed to interfere with the
employment of the people.
Mr. GREENE moved that the further progress of the bill
be postponed, in order that the point in dispute might be
referr Al to the Standing Orders Committee.
Mr. F. MAU LE had no objection, provided that the lapse
of time dial not damage the position of the bill.
Mr. STEUTT spproved of the bill being referred hack to
the Standing Orders Committee. It wit, of uo consequence
to that house who had paid for the plans and sections ; but
it was important to ascertain that the regime to landowners
had been served by the proper parties. For that reason he
concurred in t►e course suggested by the hon. member for
Lancaster.

The second reading was then postponed for a week.
Mr. GREENE moved that the bill be referred back to the
Standing Orders Committee, in order that they may wet-
lain whether the notices to landowners had been served by
the promoters of the present hall.—Agreed to.
AItREST FOR DEBT (IRELAND) BILL.
Sir H. W. BARRON moved the sewed reeding of this
hi% the olject of which was to assimilate the law of Ir, land
to that of England in respect to debts wader '2Ol. lie del
not wish the house to pledge knit to the'dctailo, but merely
to affirm a principle which had the approbation of many of
the highest legal practitioners in Ireland whom he had con-
sulted, and which baring been brought under the considera-
tion of the legal advisers of the lord-lieutenant, was unop-
posed in that and (as he believed) in all other quarters. It
might be of that this was • measure which should be
carried through wide, the aspic:. of the legal department
of the Irish government, and concurring in that view, he
should be willing, the principle being affirmed by the
second reading, to leave the matter altogether in the hands
of the solicitor-general for Ireland, or to refer the bill to •
select committee up-stairs t :a consider its de tails.
Mr. MONAHAN could not at present accede to the
second reading of this bill, by which it was sought by one
sweeping and short clause at once to abolish arrest for debt
in Ireland in ail casts of debt midi r 201. Those who
were 'wore of the vast number of debts contracted
under that amount in that country, would understand what an
immense change such • measure would effect in the rights
of creditors. lie slid not mean to say shot the subject was
not one deserving the mo t serious comsideratiou of every
person interested in the well-being of tho country, but until
facili•ieo such as existed in England, hot which Ireland at
pr sent had not, were Rican to the bona fide creditor to
make the proper y r f the fraudulent debtor available for
the pa)ment of his debts, it was impossible to accede to such
a measure. No one could have greater sympathy than he
a ntertained for the man who, haring honestly contracted debt',
found himself afterwards, from misfortune or other causes,
deprived of the mean,' of discharging them; but he had no
such sympathy for the fraudulent debtor, who contracted
debts knowing that he had no means of payment ; much less
had he any sympathy for the man, who, having contracted
debts and possessing property, refused to pay, and fraudu-
lently kept his property from the reach of his bona fide cre-
ditor. (Hear.) Ilk hon. friend had referred to the law in
this country. It wail true that • section of the act 7 & 8
Vie. was pulsed to abolish arrest on execution for debts under
201., but, in the very next session, so improvident had that
change been as a matter of legislation, it was found fleets-
oar; to give additional safeguards to creditors, by means of
the local bankrupt courts, which existed in every district,
and before which the debtor might be brought, and unless be
could show that he had not the means of payment, he would
be committed to prison. In Ireland no such machinery existed,
and as in the present state of the country few would be dis-
posed to suggest the establishment of new court, and the
appointment of • numerous body of bankrupt or insolvent
commissioners at a great expense, it was necessary, before
concurring in such a bill as this, to ascertain whether any
and 'what tribunal could be made available for affording
protection to creditor, (Hear.) Tho subject was now
under his most serious attentlon, and theugh he could not
pledge himself to the precise measure which he might here-
after feel it his dots to submit to the government, he could
skim his hon. friend that, if he would leave the matter in
hie hands, the result of his consideration should at the
earliest moment be placed in the hands of the government,
embodied in the form of a bill, which he trusted would be
appmyed of be them, and on their authority submitted to
parliament. (Hear, hem.) With this explanation and for the
reasons he had stated, he must oppose the motion for the
second reading.
Mr. SHAW believed, notwithstanding the facilities which
the bankrupt courts gave to creditors, it was the opinion
of merchants and traders, and those who were the beet prac-
tical judges, that the change in the law by which arrest in
execution was abolished for debts under 20/. did not work
weU in this country. He believed the civil bill process as it
existed in Ireland worked fairly for both debtor and creditor,
but to take away the power of arrest for the debts litigated
in the civil bill courts would operate most injuriously to
the creditors and to the country.
Mr. M. OTERItALL tendered his thanks to the
bon. member for Waterford for drawing attention to this
subject. Every hon. member who had any knowledge of the
state of the county ;moth in Ireland—in many of which7o or 80
parsons were frequently confined at one time for debts of not
more than e5.,13c., or 75., while thrir families were starving at
home—meet sgrre that it was one requiring immediate con-
oideration, and lie hoped that the pledge which had just been
given by the Irish oolieiter-general would be redeemed with
as little deay as possible.
Mr. M. MILNES had known instances of penmen being
confined in gaol in Ireland two and three yarn for debts
under 10s.. merely to !satisfy the vengeance of the creditor,
the debtor having no means whatever of paying, and it was
in consequent, of his having witnessed such scenes that he
had put his name to the back of the bill. With regard to
the abolit ion of arrest in England, he believed we had arrived
at a satisfactory result in the working out of that law—at all
events, the public mind in this country was made up nut to
return, under any circumstances, to the system of incar-
cerating debtors for small sums. With regard to the civil
bill process in Ireland, he believed the facilities which that
system gave, a, against the debtor, bad been taken advancer'
of in some cure by persons who desired to redeye themselves
from the burden; of maintaining relations, and those who
were naturally dependent upon them, by suing cut process
for diet and lodging, and causithem to be taken in execu-
tion and imprisoned for the debt. There was a btevi:y in
the bill as it stood, so unprofeseional, and which must be so
painful to the legal mind—(hear, and • Insight—that be
had not anticipated it. pawing in its present shape ; but be
had thought that it might have been allowed to be reed •
second tame and referred to a committee up-stain, when,
with the assistance of the Solicitor-General for Ireland, the
details might have been so perfected, that it might have
passed into a law this session.
Mr. 8. CRAWFORD bore witness to the persecution in-
flicted upon the poor of Ireland by the power of surest for
mall sums. In Mayo 2.000 civil bill processes had been
issued at one sessions, and the result w.to, that the country
was becoming depopulated, by the poor people flying from
their homes to avoid being thrown intei the county Reels. It
Iwas to be feared that in too many ewes this power of arrest
for small debts was used ass more ready merino of getting rid
of their tenants than the usual pr.-eels of ejectrner t.

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