The Express.
London, England, 1849-05-23 00:00:00

SHORTENING THE DURATION OF PARLIA-
MENTS.

Mr. D'EYNCOURT, in rising to move for leave to bring
in a bill to shorten the duration of parliaments, admitted that
there had not been any great number of petitions of late pre-
vented in favour of his bill, or any great agitation upon the ,
subject out of doers. But he knew not that he was
justly chargeable with any impropriety if, instead
of waiting for the results of agitation and an external ebul-
i:•teae of feetiee rs.asad any lancer a..
. prevent the Eines.
Lion itself frees being fairly, friely, and fully discussed by
the house. The house must not suppose that the question ,
had been forgotten by the people. It was one which bed
engaged attention and consideration for the last 200 pats—
for 50 years antecedent to the revolution of 1688. Sines the ,
passing of the Septennial Art there bad been innumerable
motions of the nature and character of the one he was sub-
mittiog, for repealing that act, and bringing in another to
limit the duration of parliaments. It was twelve yams since
he first intruded himmlf upon the attention of the house on
this subject ; and now again bethought it his duty to assert
the claim of the people, and their public right that parliaments
should be shortened, and that 'greater degree of responsibility
should attach to the hen. members of that house than at-
tached to them in long parliaments. (Hear.) It was not
his intention to fatigue the house with a repetition of the
arguments which be had entered into at large in the years
1833, 4, and 5; but he would not be doing justice if he did
not briefly lay before them the general state and condition of
the question. The hon. member then proceeded to say that
up to the reign of the Tudors and Stuarts the parliaments
were annual, but that during those raigos that system had
been departed from, and the parliaments were held for long
and irregular periods up to 1604, when the triennial hill was
passed. The parliaments continued to be biennial until about
134 years ago when the Septennial Act was pasted. The cense-
quence, however, of tY e passing of that act was, that in the
year 1734, after three parliaments bad been held of six years
each, the people of England became disgusted with the new
state of things which had been introduced. So great a dif-
:creme was toned between the Housed Commons under the
Septennial Act, and under the Triennial Act, that a motion
was made in the house, the result of which was, that Mr.
Pultem y and other teen of mete in that day, who had previ-
ously supported the Sep'eonial Act of 1715, then voted
against it. The motion, however, was lot in a house of

400 cot others. The Reform Bill was introduced in 1832 by the
noble lord at the head of the present government, and it had
been received by the nation with applause and gratitude.
That reform had been contended for on two grounds—
am. ndment of the representation of the people, and an in-
crease of the responsibility of members of parliament. This
wes the utiles real division of the question of esteem. His
noble friend had ably fulfilled in the nude one of these divi-
Lens ; the other still remained where it was in 1832.
In 1833 this question was nut met by • direct negative. Lord
Althore moved the previous question, stating that neither
he, the government, nor the house, were then prepared to
come to a conclusive determination upon the subject, thereby
admitting that it was one which was perfectly fit to be die
cussed. In 1834 he (Mr. D'Eynoourt) brought it forward
again, and was defeated by • majority of only 37,and in a sub-
sequent year by a majority of only 9, in a house of 100 mem-
bers. The hat parliament set for six years. and In the fifth
year the core laus were repealed, upon which occasion he
recollected it. being argued by hon. gentlemen opposite that
it was not wise to pass so important a measure when the par-
liament was about to expire, as many hon. gentlemen might
have forgotten the promises and the pledges which theygave
five or six years before. No men could sit in that house with-
out observing that the vast influence of the crown in the
army, navy, and civil departments exercised an influence
more or less upon the votes of members of that house, and it
was, therefore, the more necessary to place in the hazels of
the people a counteracting influence by the frequent oppor-
tueity of election. He was satisfied that such a measure
would do mare than any other to give stability to the insti-
tutions of the country. He begged to move for leave to
bring in • bill for shortening the duration of parliaments.
Lord D. STUART seconded the motion. Few questions,
he stid, bad more frequently engaged the attention of toe
house, or been supported by more able arguments. But,
although defeated on former OCUSiOIIII, it had been discussed
under similar ircumstance s, and therefore he felt that there
was room to hope that th.' proposed measure might find fa-
vour with the house; eneesure he was that the house, by
miming it, would find favour with the country at large.
When the question was introduced after the passing of the
Reform Bill, it was a fair argument to use against it that it
would not be wise, immediately after so great a change,
to make further changes still. But that argument could not
be used now. The system had been tried, and after an expe-
reales of 16 years was found wanting, and found to give
great dissati,facti 'n to the people. Whatever might be
thought of it in ballrooms and In another plan not far off;
or upon the racecourse, to which some hots. gentlemen
seemed so anxious to go to the neglect of the public busi-
ness, certain he was that the middle classes of the people
were greatly ditestiefied with it, and anxiously desired the
change proposed to be effected by the bill now sought to be
introduced. It was said that short parliaments would produce
heats and animosities ; but surely those which preceded the
Septennial Act could not be compared for intensity to these
which followed it. Nothing ever exceeded the yiolence and
bloodshed which in their own time they had known to occur
under the Septennial Att. It was said also that short par-
liaments would be more expensive. He doubted it, when
he called to mind the en emote; sums that had twee sacri-
ficed at our elections, emotions to the utter ruin of wealthy
families. In 1768 the famous contest of the borough of
Northampton gave r;sc to an expeediture between the
Earls of Northampton, Halifax, and Spencer, who had in
fluence in the borough, of 4000001.; one of them having
expended 1(0,0001. and the teller two 150,000/, each. Even
supposing the expense of short parliaments to be greater
in the long run, it would be a less evil to expend
=all amounts often than an enormous sum less frequently.
But it was avid that to shorten the duration of parliaments
weuld be to interfere with the prerogative of the crown.
The real object of this prerogative was to give
the sovereign the opportunity at any time of ascertain-
ing the sentiments of the people • and this might be done as
well with short parliaments. Villiam IV. had dissolved a
parliament which had lasted only nine months; but, under
the triennial system, the crown would have just the same
prerogative, though the necessity of resettling to its exercise
would be less probable. He thought it of importance to the
House of Lords that this measure should be ad( pted. While
anxious to reserve to the two other branches of the legisla-
ture their just rights, he would make this house • real repre-
sentation of the people. The conservative tendencies of the
House of Loris were well known ; but he had found that
wh, never this house declared its opieion in a decided and
continued way the House of Lords withdrew their opposition
to the national wish. (Hear, hear.) He presumed
the object of the motion pointed to triennial
parliaments, but, as it was merely for the re-
veal of the Septennial Act, all who thought seven
years too long would be able to support this motion. Some
might be desirous of seeing annual parliaments, and they
also might support this =nein as a step towards what they
wanted. The noble lord at the heed of the government had
last year declared that he should prefer annual to triennial
parliaments ; but this, though " open," was probably not
advised" speaking.
Lord J. RUSSELL.—I said I was against both.
Lord D. C. STUART hoped that all who were anxious
for financial reform and for the extinction of abuses in
every department, would vote fur the repeal of the Sep-
Jamul Act—a repeal which had been demanded by the
people upwards of 100 years—had been advocated by Pitt,
Chatham, Romilly, and Mackintosh, and which was not
revolutionary, but tended to the security of the crown and
the well-being of the people. (Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said he considered this as, in fact, a
motion for shortening the duration of parliaments to three
ast
becertafaii:thorllyyekepre,idieindtrelistntelpy7wpdifenr:y.
yeas;
hon. mover.
this question should The
nwo
cussed. It bad bean truly stated that there was not
much agitation in the public mind on the subject; and,
44i'erdd iswchonotehadnt withlagi
wthhoougehxptrhessee noble lord
were to be found in omnibuses and other public conveyances
Bement, be doubted very much whether they wished the
duration of parliament to be shortened, and whether that
would afford a remedy for any of the public grievances.
He did not attach much importance to that very usual
expression, that there was much to be found fault with and
a great deal to mend. An Englishman of considerable
talent, who had passed much of his life abroad, once said
i that, on cominginto this country, if a person shut his eyes
sad opened his ears, he would suppose that this was one of
the meet miserable nations in existence; but that if he took
the opposite course, he would think it one of the
happiest (Laughter.) There was • general dis-
position in this country, from which undoubtedly
a great deal of improvements flowed, to find fault with things
existing. and to suppose that great amendments might
take place. (Hear, hear.) Such beipg the want of general
excitement on this particular subject,liis right hon. friend
had stated that he had not made this motion for the last 12
years and he had implied a sort of threat that if it were not
now agreed to, in the course of another 12 years he would
again bring it forward. (Laughter.) This was a very
prudent and wise course; if he were not in a majority, he
NU quite right in letting 12 years pass, again giving a no-
tice, and bringing the subject, mutely and ably as he had

now done, mailer the consideration et the licuseTTlie
of the resolution tusked if he (Lord J. Russell) was D
to state that he thought seven years the best term
meets to endure. From his experiecce since tee p,„P,''''‘
the Reform Bill, now several years, his decided mot!
was that it was better not in any limy to 0.4".
present duration of parliaments. If trieened ewere canted into effect, there might often be a dneelatilis
the end of the second year ; and it would be foiled that
during the first year of that House of Commges there *see
be a great deal of time lest, by the want of experiaece
many new member, by the pregengation of debt et %MOM 6
foxily, by gentlemen who were anxious to take an acne.
in the debates, and who had net before bad m a
sea's • ,F'
the third year of such parliaments there would be'foud-
disposition to decide on many gestations which might h&j,
an immediate effect on the approachieg geoetal •hw
e,-
Thus, in two out of the three parr, the trensection of et;
public business would be much disturbed—in He 6:st liar
by the went of experience, in the last by log kine tee
anxiously and intently on the election likely to take e7..7
He would ask any gentleman who recollected the last 'ehiies
years if some or those evils had not been fused
in the last and first years of parliaments? And this "
of
more coesequence now than in the days of our aseeewp.
Comparing the public business then transacted, the euew
of measures and the qtr ations of administration this de.
bated, with the immense empire while cocceres they
now to deliberate upon, speaking one day of the Mire of
India, another of those of Canada, then turning thew enea.
tion home, and discussing whether their commereial p w..•
wes sound, and again occupying a cense', relde time ia dee.
berating on the affairs of Ireland, it would be sem that
hardly too much importance could be atts bed te, tees n.
sideratiou that that house ought to be a h we let lira •
wisdom, ready to undertake the beelines comae pews
them as men used to the transaction of busimeg, and de, w
decide the great end important eue adore upon which the web
fare of the country depsnded, without En immediate refeetee
to a then pending election, or the fear of cunsti'u nts, yews
displeasure they might for a time incur. lie had wen
many instances where members bad voted against west
appeared to be the overtime, e' —se...in:lentil, led ales
want* thaw
ought them wrong at the uoiews
admitted that they had worthily and properly d s.11;1
their duties, and had confi'aed iueir inrenatx to this so,
with full confidence. The bill for estahlisbirg Malta*
some three years ago was en instance of that kind. (gee.
bear.) He bad never known much greater clam lee reed
against any measure ; innumerable letters were m menet"
almost every member, himself amongst the f. et, threaten.
that they should never again receive a vote hem cerewel
their constituents if they persisted in voting tor the bill, Bat
the discussion went on, members did their duty, sty gig
right in voting for the bill in mei Lance to that demur, ad
the public opinion was in the end sathfied that the tee"
was a right and a wise one, and that independent m. who bed
dspass their duty in supporting the mivernment on thatecesme,
He would not say such would be the eve were the aim
dos of parliaments greatly shortened, were the knee:etas
that an election was immediatgly to intuit to peeve feel
third year, and were exaggerated ri ports circulatid auto
electors in the absence of members, as to the nature of
the measures before parliament. (Hear, hear) Tree e
was said there were greater means of cnnumien in leg
Parliaments than in sheet ones. Considering the form d
public opinion at this time, he did not think the ii fiance
of the crown, under any administration of late emirs, lug
prevailed as against tee independent cpiniens if electors
But if it were a question in which kind cf parliseeet it
would prevail most, he should say the short, r the pubs,
mint the greater would be the numher ef nienalere I.kely
to entertain hopes of securing the government patronage.
They would be much m ire likely to he infitterced by gs.
vreenent than in a p aliment which had to site. vete tem,
whose members were well t equainted wilt the remelt ea
disappointments they had to sublet to. lie certainly eine
to the concluelon that there was no reason for disturbingthe
present duration of perliame nes. Whether six yr ars was
the best period he !mealy thou eht it necessary to aim on od.
nion ; whether it was five or six yearn did not seem of great
importance • but he had certainly thought at one time that
five would 'be better than seven. He did not remember
that he ever was in favour of three years. He c, rsiaiy
thought at one time, as a general question. that fire yean
would be better; but there was no sufficient name fee
making a change which would only dimieida the pitied eas
year. Six years was not excessive, ord this wee only the
period to which a parliament might extend; for in tie 1$
years fr, m 1826 to 1841 there had been no has than six pat.
liaments, giving an average duration of two yews sad a
half. By diminishing the period to three years thy wield
certuinly control the permeative of the crown, which, is
cases where the number, on each ride were (quell tehmed,
or where a mie .rity opposed the supplies or ore. acv mu.
sures of government, emegled the crown to 'tip- it men
decision of the people. But the right hon. gentlemen said
there was no example in Europe of a legisletire hoe, I .suog
seven year,; five and four years were more quiet limits.
With great deference to the right hon. gentle man, he we
not disposed to borrow from these new Europese ennstitie
elope. (Hear, hear) We had seen the monarchy
of France overthrown, and the advisers of the crows
exposed to the tide of popular disapprobation, (H er)
But they had seen likewise that the form of goverment
which succeeded bad not es•ablished its If i public opiaior,
and that those who, with the most brilliant talents end the
moat unquestionable integrity, had declared them- Ire the
favourers of the form of government then meal tidied, had
them: elves fallen in a few days under the digpleicure tithe
name popular opinion which tad overthrown ere m
He should conclude, ea he had Mine on former oe, .ei n., by
opposing his right hon. ft iences mating. He chime think that
the duration of parliament was ton long. He though, that
public opinion had a very great infleence on the mem'. n of
that bowie, and that if they were to make electives so es.
see dicey frequent as his right hon. frier,d prep , d, they
wculd lose mueh on the ground of puelic M.( urity, u ucb ex
the ground of habits of business, much on the groto.d of to
stability of their councils and the due defile rrion i f pubes
measures, and that they world not gain in vhiic I:hirty soy
thing to counteract the disadvantages which lie tad not
stated. (Cheers.)

Mr. 8. CRAWFORD said that in discussing this quetion
it was right to know what the con•titution wars—whether
that hour. waste represent the people. If that was the eon
stitutiop, then this house ought to he under the epute.,l of
the people. But the people ceutploine d that this boom did
not fairly Term seat thc:r wishes and tidings, ►nd one of the
causes why it diet not was owing to the duration of parlit.
mint. He oid not think that frequent elections would
give rise •to frequent changes in the persons elected.
On the contrary, he believed that those who did their doty
would have a better chance of being re-elected this
under the present system, and that treater her.
rawly and good feeling wend exist between the
representatives and the represented. (War, bear.)
But be did not ti ink it would be worth while to promote a
change, for the purpose of establishing a five yeas' durrion
of parliament. Indeed he hardly thought it worth while to
promote a change for triennial parliaments; but et the
some time, as triennial parliaments was the princi, le of
the old constitution, he was willing to take that step.
(Hear, hear.)
- - - -

The house then divided—
Far the motion
Against it 4l-5
The announcement of the numbers was rt edged a ith loud
cheers by the liberal members in the house.
Mr. SLANEY, in moving for the sepointment of a vend-
ing committee, or unpaid commission, to consider a• ,d report
from time to time on practical measures (unconnected with
political changes), likely to improve the conditicin of the
working classes, to encourage their industry, as d increase
their contentment, ca 'd that so far as the ohket of his motion
went, he felt certain it would have the approval of gentlemen
on all sides of the house ; but he felt bound to make out a
strong cue, in order to induce her Majesty's Rovers rent to
make the conceesinn which he proposed. He troitc Ihe
would be able to nuke out ouch a case. The danger he bad
' to encounter was not opposition to his arguments, or contra-
diction of his forts, but that gentlemen on bsth sides of the
house would sally out to dinner, and that the pr icees usual
on ouch a state of things, that of counting out the house,
would be resorted to. (Laughter.) If that were the Mel
he would not use any harsh expressions or exhibit any impa-
tience, but would wait with good temper and a good cause
till a more favourable opportunity presented itself of renews
ins the subject. The great body of the labourers of this coun-
try were divided into the agricultural and the manufacturil
classes, and every person who considered the subject west
confess that whilst the wealthier and middle class had made
groat progress in prosperity, the working class, to whose
dustryand indomitable perseverance they owed ro much, had
not advanced in anything like the same proportion. In 1817
and 1819 committees of that house Lad sat and reported oa
the condition of the labouring population of the southern
counties of England, who were suffering extremely Irons
abuses in the law. A committee had sat afterwards on the
same subject in 1830, but nothing had been done to
remedy these abuses till the amendment of the Poor
Law Act in 1835. 'these abuses existed in twenty-six
counties, along a line drawn south of the Hua.ber
to the Severn, for twenty years. The int fence which
he drew from this was, that if there had been a commission
or board established to watch over :he condition of the
working dirties, those abuses could not have existed for so
long a period without a remedy. The condition ct the un-
skilled labouring population of their large towns end mining
districts, use not better thaw that of the rural popula-
tion. In 1839 the report of the poor-law commi.sioners
gave a strong description of the miserable state of the eastern
part of the metropolis. In 1840, the commissioners ap-
pointed for the purpose of inquiring into the sanitary
condition' of the population of their large town, com-
plained of the want of drainage, and the defective sanitary
regulations which generally prevailed. In 1840, 1843, and
1845, similar inquiries were made, and yet nothing was d .ne.
The same thing was stated in relation to the labouring popu-
lation of the coal fields throughout the kingdom. The band-
loom weavers and their families formed a boiy of no less
than 600,000 persons, and the report said that they were in
great &Orem, the cause of which was the disproportion
between the supply of labour sod the demand for it. The
remedy, the commissioner* observed, must be sought in their
own activity, intelligence, sele dental, and prudence; but
they added that the possession of these qualities was the re-
sult of a good education, which few of the labouring classes
received. The last class which he had to mention was that
of railway labourers, comprising with their families 600,000
persons. The evils under which this body laboured were
u great as thou which attached to the other classes he had
described. Various measures of relief were necessary. First,
they should provide for the education of the people;
secondly, they should seek to preset ve their health ; thirdly,
they should give them greater facilities for investing their
small savings. A commission, consisting of practical men,
with cool heads aid warm hearts, and whose functions wero
rather suggestive than administrative, might be the lastest-
ment of effecting great improvements.
An Hose. MEMBER here moved that the house be counted,
and, there not being 40 members present, the house ad-
journed until Thursday.