The Express.
London, England, 1848-07-29 00:00:00

•
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prevailed for yearo, undwr which it was
any country could prosper. (Rear,
ibuted the evils of Ireland to defective
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not go into the question whether
bringing forward nil metion was
could have been 'elected— (hear)--
ries before the Pons , with the fie ling he
le condition of Ireland, he could not do
port it.
TE 'red pen tie question before the
one, and as such he would treat
tan in November, with promising
treland, and yet all it had achiever, was a
-other for the suspension id the H ,bees
I a remarkable fact, that on the very nay
A now debatng, the House of Commons
iars ago, in suspending the Habeas Corpus
ad what •ad been done during they, 15
He very much teared that the peoele of
when they said they expected nothing
parliament. He aid not man
parliament. Young
-
t those fairly enetled to rank as the Irian-
lk-and-water proposal- of the noble lord
y the nation. Hew did it happen, altar
ion over In land, that she was tell in write
? It was said that Irish grievances were not
she never came be fore the parliament in a
Was Ireland, then, always to be an humble
e ? Every concession that had been made
to extorted by fear. Nothing had ever
Lee the gratitude of Ireland. What had
England towards the Roman catholic%
elegised cajoled them. In 1301 England
In 1803 they were discarded. tVbst was
be right hon. bae"net the member for Tarn-
" Semethirg must be done." What was
IP prevent premier in 1841 ? " Ir, land is
averred." So it is now under the noble
eland as truly occupied and net governed
? He was sick and tired of such an imbe-
the end of which weuld seem to he either
7pCtd ot the union, Tne noble lord (Lord J.
its speeen that a vetting, seemed to say that
One party to whom Irelane presented an
natty. Ireland was the bugbear of the right
I nothing we, to be done until the noble lard
:treasury beach. The Irish were led te look
ord as aWO Id St. Patrick. The poor people
artily expected to find the noble I.rd in the
" Bottle Conjuror." They expected the
it his promises. They were enraged to find
',ping into his bottle he had only crept into
• lord ejected the right hon. baronet on the
id all present would doubtless remember the •
ty the then miniver in posse, and he able to
ith the per:ern:unties of the ininisti r in cue.
elend,how, vs rehad long memories, and they
empletion of the promisee held out by the noble
th June, Veld, the noble lord taunted the right
itb Laving brought in a coercion bill, unac-
any ameliorative measures. What had been
e noble Iced and his colleagues ? lie had
ive bats ano a HabeuCorpus Suspension Act
at session. And bat did he bold out now ?
of the Exchequer talked of "self reliance,"
lord recommended them to look forward to
onward progress, as the only ameliorvions
But were these the proper completion of
de by the present government ? The mem-
le lord's ministry had volunteered a pledge to
people on an equality, as between the catholic
taut churches. But this was when they were
lie would not say one word against the pro-
rmen in Ireland. The representatives of
been told that their apathy was the res-
hips; Lad been done towards placing
itholic and protestant churches in Ire-
ne equal footieg. This question was the
the difficulties and discord that orevailed in
until the canker was cut away from the root
ever cease. There never had been witnessed
y such a system as that which had prevailed
ith respect to the protestant crutch. There
notestant bishops kept up in that country en-
it.le short of 70,0001. a year, and all the while
ten that theta was such a thing existing in Ire-
isolation of 8,000,000 Roman entholics. It was
\Biotic priests were allowed to oft, ate as chap-
but they were 'eft to wring the pittance necese
support from the poorest cottiers. When the
ced ot " geadual progress" in Ireland, what did
do with the church establishment there?
B. Osborne) did not agree in what the
member for Manchester had said, it was
did not think the plan was ripe for execution.
s made by the magnates anal bishops of the
i far their large benetices and incomes wee, that
le sum received by them were spread over the
e, not a single clergyman would receive more
ye.ar. That was true, but the country had a
We whether protestant clergymen were wanted
And when the hon. member for Limerick
the people of England were not prepared to do
se Irish church, he would. teU him that he (Mr.
wsa ready to go to the hustings on th it question,
hat the electors of Middlesex e ould nut turn him
The noble lord at the head of the Woods and
ten secretary for Ireland, bed defined the proem-
-1 there to be a IBM of livings without cures of
a large amount of pay without any work, and the
me to Manchester had only borrowed the noble
ester in saying what he did on a former evening
subject. How had the Roman catholies been
T the government in respect to grants of public
By a return which he held in his hand, he found
the year 1300 to 18-12, the protestant church in
id received from the public purse, the sum of
The protestant dissenters in Ireland had re-
-119,0001. during that perio 1 ; whilst the Roman
sad received 365,6111. And this was what they
eg all religious creeds on an equality. It was
of protestant ascendancy having been put down •
The shadow was removed; the substance still
By the same return he found that there were Al
benefices in ,Ireland in which not a protestant
I•
found ; there were 99 in which there were leas than
Was in eaei ; and there were 124 benefices in
le number of pmtestants ranged from 20 to
did not exceed the latter amount. It such a
things had been observed by the people of
to prevail in any other nation of Europe there
eve been only one opinion as to its injustice and
• hut they were familiarised to its existence in Ire-
l'forgot its wickedness. He might be asked what hi
to substitute for the present state of the Irish
He wou.d answer, that if the government desired
a cure, and do real good in Ireland, they would
present territorial system of the protestant church
ongregational sy-tam. The ter: Bestial system pu-
tt the whole lend in districts, and gave clergymen
sr to them, whether they contained any proteitante
Such a system might be very applicable to •
there there was only one prevailing religion ; but it
- fairly enforced amongst a people whore religion
to that so en orced. The congregauonal system,
. each clergyman according to the wants of the die.
as the only proper mode of maintaicing the pro.
religion in Irelacd. Strange to say, that system
een proposed by a member of the right
ble baronet's (Sty R. Peel's) former govern-
When the noble lord below him (Morpeth)
1 in the year 183.5 to sequester all the livings in Bl-
ame there were not fifty protestant& to be found,
ighara Baring, the present Lord Ashburton, pro-
a have recourse to the congregational et stem, and
moition was received by the bon. member for Mon-
ith satisfaction, and by the noble lord (J. Russell)
; only, said the noble lord, e the time has not yet
ter it to be carried into practice." Well, they were
ived at the year 1319, and yet, ace piing to the
rid, the time had not arrived. But he ( alSe. B.
ier
would tell tell the noble lord that bad ir. B
Baring's plan been put in practice to 1e35, there
have been perfect contentment existing t hroughout
'on this subject at the present time. H•' r
Tr.
e
o, that the ecclesiastical tenths, together with all:elute
t-charges in Ireland, should be disposed of, reserving
crests, and the proceeds invested in the funds, to cow
the sources of endowment of the ministers Of the
Cant church there. The glebes he would c overt into
e same way, and the lands of the bishops and
ceps lie would abo sell, reserving all existing life
4, and invest the proceeds in the (uncle, as already
lie saw no difficulty whatever in carrying
rol.
out
lan, whatever the noble lord might say tothe cont
was one thing more wanted to effect perfect equality
en the Roman catholic and the pretesteuit—that was
=oval of the Irish bishops from the House of Loa
ds.
sage in this respect would not only be umfal as con;
7 to equality, but it would afford an opportunity of
or the incomes of the Irish episcopal betty. (Hear)
surplus revenues of the Irish church be would appro.
c an Lord Melbourne propeeed in 1835, viz., pay Bleat;
to the consolidated fund, which would take away ail
ad for jealousy. Certain it WWI that until this quesu
e Irish church was settled they could not hope tor frer*
tot tranquillity in Ireland. This was the opinion ci'
ed by 20 members of the present government, thel
cabinet ministers, expressed by their vote'
or seecenew_
Ir. Ward's motion, in 1843 and 1844. (Hear.) In!
eat state of the University of Dublin was another grotle
emplaiut. There could be no equality in Ireland welte_
tan catholic, were excluded from tellowthips and the ot the
teee
Airs of that university. (Hear.) 111theugn without
tement of the Irish church question Ireland rouse n ree
quillised, he uid not mean to say that that We sae!
ufficient No patchwork system of Itgetlotion wool, ef
ran for that country. It WU no use coming down lit.2!:11:
tumbered Estates Bill, which as now altered would
not
rk, and expect that the difficulties of govereing
fire was
eel be solved. (Hear.) Such patchwork It
bar
rely furnishing an argument for repeal. Anothe.
_re_ ,
great importance was that relerri dto in the andel
isee,
15—the improvement of the condition of the! idu
uses, and the development of the resources of e
is time one-third of the population our
Ireland were
_01:4;
tely paupers. lie admitted they had passed a poor
r and he lamented such a law had ne.t,
,aid• century ago ; but tin re was one point should leeeZ
en thought of, via., the capacity of the country, eel "'_
in to its property, to bear a Pe°T
law
theth buss
71:1
wr far the property of the country could bear.
_e
aloe
: its poverty Looking at the whole rat liable e4e
as obvious
reland, and comparing it. with the P°lertY' ork le
hat a poor-law and nothing else was mere teachr_
era"
Won. What were they to do with 2;500,000 of e_e„t" e„g
eople out of work, out of a population of 8,000,000, ngeses
tenuity of the young men of the middle and uppee,ree;il
ithout professions ? The only way of meeting this
_ls yr.
r some such plan as that advocated by :11%ti073,
loletworth systematic scheme of e 0,9