The Express.
London, England, 1853-07-12 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, JULY l2, 1853.

RETORTED AUSTRIAN OCCUPATION Or
BOSNIA.
Mr. DISRAELI—The other question I have to ask the
noble lord is—has her Majesty's government received any
official intimation as to the reported occupation of Bosnia
by the army of Austria?
Lord J. RUSSELL—NO, we have not received any
official intimation of that nature, and, indeed, the Austrian
minister has communicated to Lord Clarendon his total
disbelief of sny such fact having occurred. (Mar.) lie
says he believes that the report has been owing to the occu-
pation, by Austrian troops, of Petcrwartulin„ which is a forti-
fied town within the Austrian territory. (Hear.)

THE INDIA BILL.
The house then pent into committee on tbie bill.

On clause
Mr. V. SMITII moved to omit in the clause the words
" It shall be lawful fur her Majesty by warrant under the
sign manual to appoint," in order to substitute the words
" The Court of Directors by the consent of her M jetty
under her royal sign manual, couuteniige,rd by the Presi-
dent of the Board of Control. to appoint, &c.
Sir C. WOOD thought it would be more convenient for
the committee to avoid a general discus-ion on the past
government of Indio, and other topics introduced by his
right hon. friend, which did nut bear on the precise goes-
lion raised, and to which he proposed to confine himself.
They had agreed that the double government should be
maintained, and all that they had to decide was in what
shape certain persons should enter the Court of Directors.
Another point bad been agreed on, namely, that by some
other means than election by the Court of Proprietors a sec-
tain portion of the future court should he introduced into it.
The evidence that had been received went strongly to
point but a great defect in the constitution of the Court of
Directors, namely, that the ablest men—men of the highest
character and experience among Indian servants—were de.
terred by the arduous and expensive system of canvassing
from Ofs ring themselves as candidates for the direction;
and it was apparent, from the concurrent evidence of many
witnesses, that, by some means or ether, a portion of the
court should be selected from such men. In order to sim-
plify the question, he would concede that one-third of the
court should be introduced either by selection or nomina-
tion, and the question was, whether it should be done by
ea
a selection as was proposed by his right hen. friend,
ST by nomination by the crown. His right hon.
friend had raised an objection to the moue adopted
by the government on the ground that the persons to be ap
puinted were mere Domino. s. It was not until after greet.
deliberation, that it was decided to adopt that plan. If the
Court of Directors were to be independent, it was the in-
terest of the government to make them so. They might be
wrong in the mode of doing that they had adopted. He
admitted it was a fair subject fur discussion, but he still
thought that the plan chosen by the Government was the
hest calculated to preserve the independence of the court.
Mr. BERRIES was understood to say that he found his
own views on this point very accurately expressed in the
amendment, which he would accordingly support, rejoicing
that the opposition to this part of the government plan was
initiated on the ministerial side of the house.
Mr. LOWE trusted he would be able to answer the oh
jcetions of tie right hon. gentleman. He could assure him
that the course before the house had not been hastily
adopted by the government, and that if that course were
an erroneous one, it was one which bad been come to after
most mature consid:ration. Having said thus much he
would next address himself to the arguments of the right
hon. member for Northampton (Mr. Vernon Smith.)
It was admitted, arid indeed proved by an immense mass of
evidence, that there was a great evil in the present , leetion
of the Court of Directors of the East India Company which
it was the duty of that house to remove. The evil was this,
although the directors elected were pares negaliis, yet there
were many very eminent men anxious for a seat in the
direction, and whose presence would be a great advobtage,
who nevertheless would not undergo the risk and humility
of a canvass. Now it was felt by all parties that the power
of the Court of Directors was one thing and
that of the Board of Control another; that the
power of the Board of Control consisted in a
power delegated by law, whereas the power of the
Court of Directors consisted in the force of their reasoning
and the weight of the authority of their opinions. The one
was of an intellectual, the other of &material character, and
thus the two could work together. Independent, in cue
sense, the court could not be, because its opinions were
liable to the supervision of the Board of Control. In another
sense, the court was independent; namely, in compelling
an assent from ministers, by the weight of its experience,
to matters which by law it could not otherwise control. Ia
this latter sense, the government measure woul I tend to
increase the influence of the Court of Directors, by intro-
ducing into its body men of authority, position, and expe-
rience. Every such person admitted would be an additional
weight, and inatcadfof tending to the destructionof the power
of the Court of Directors it would increase their power; for
the Board of Control could not but respect the opinions of a
body numbering amongst its members men so greatly re-
spected.
The hon. member for Northampton was so evi-
dently sincere that it could not be doubted but that he
thought, by his amendment, that he was taking the power
out of the hands of the Crown, and placing it in those of the
directors, but experience would show that the reverse would
be the come. At present there were three classes of offices,
who were placed in the same situation as the amend-
ment would place the nominated directors. There
was the Oovernor-General, four members of council,
and the chiefs of inferior presidencies. All these
were appointed by the Board of Directors subject to the
moment of the Crown. What had been the result of this ?
Why all these appointments had virtually become nomina-
tions of the crown, notwithstanding that the act provided
that they should be appointed by the directors. The crown
had stretched its authority to such purpose that these ap-
pointments were really its own, and the system had been
totally reversed ; instead of the directors appointing and
the crown consenting, the Board of Control suggested to
the Court of Directors the names of the officers, and thus
the veto was with the court instead of the crown.
Would not, then, the same results be likely to
follow under similar circumstances, and thus the
only effect of the right hon. gentleman's amendment would
be to place the same power as the government proposed
to do in the hands of the President of the Board of Control,
without rendering him personally responsible for his selec-
tion of directors. It certainly seemed to him (Mr. Lowe)
that, reasoning from analogy, no other result would follow
from the amendment. (Hear, hear.) But he was willing
to argue the question on the right hon. gentleman's own
grounds. He (Mr. Lowe) would take it that he was mis-
taken, and that the President would leave the directors to
appoint. If that were so, then the authority of the
Board of Control would be wholly of a minor kind, and
must be left out of consideration in argument.
Now it would never occur to any one to suppose that the
directors would appoint any one so grossly improper that it
would be necessary for some power to be exercised to keep
out their appointee ; no one who knew anything of the
administration of the Court of Directors would sumac them
capable of such a thing. Tho evil to be remedied was the
non-appointment of eminent men. How would a veto to
the Board of Control enable it to appoint such men I The
Crown might say to the Court of Directors, " nominate such
a one, for no ~then will be approved ;" but this would vir-
tually deprive the court of its power of nomination. But
putting aside the power of the Crown altogether, let the
house consider the effect of this amendment as regarded
the constitution of the court itself. Even under the present
system it had been a subject of complaint that the board et
directors had too much influence over the election of its
members; yet it could not be said that it amounted to self
election, although it tended that way. Thus under the
amendment of the right hon. gentleman a member of the
court of directors would be elected under a system which
nearly amounted to self election, and the remainder would
be, as it were, self elected. Nothing bad such a tendency to
warp and disturb the judgment as that system. It has been
said that the nominees as proposed by the government
will be directly under the influence of the crown. But
the method is which Indian business was arranged, their
votes and proceedings, need n be known, unless they
chose it themselves. The true question was, how to obtain
for India the services of those who, from their position and
experience, would be best able to govern it. Now indivi-
duals who were in the decline of life, and who had secured
a reputation, were naturally very unwilling to submit to
the mercies of an election, but nevertheless they might be
very willing to receive a position by appointment from the
crown, that appointment being conferred on them in conse-
quence of their merit and ability. He (Mr. Lowe) had
been taunted because he had supported' system of nominees
for India, while he had opposed it in the Monies. But the
two noes were perfectly dissimilar, and in supporting the
pion proposed in this bill, he (Mr. Lowe) was not acting
in contradiction to any opinion which he had ever expressed
on the subject of nounneeship in the colonies. (Hear.)
Mr. ELLIOT did not think that the hon. gentleman
(Mr. Lowe) had made out a case to show that the system
proposed by government would render the Board of Direc-
ton ,more independent, or its opinion of more authority
than at the present moment.
Lord STANLEY said that the committee ought to con-
fine itself to the question immediately before it—that ques-
tion being whether the plan of the government or the plan
of the right hon. gentleman was best calculated to secure
the most efficient and independent men on the Board of
Directors. The plan of the right hon. gentleman was that
of self election, for which there was no precedent. His
objection to that plan was that it tended to give perms.
Deuce if not perpetuity to that very system which it
was the object of the bill to do away with. Neither did
he altogether approve of the government plan, and he
thought that, without trenching on the principle on which
it was founded, it was susceptible of improvement. When
these members were appointed by the crown, and had seats
in that house, they would become, he would not say the
tools, but the allies of the government. Now he thought
that if these directors were appointed fur a term of ten or
twelve years, and were not re-eligible at the end of that
period, they would have a sufficient guarantee for their in-
dependence. (Hear.) He offered this as an improvement
on the plan of the government, which, however, he would
support in preference to the plan of the right hon. gentle-
man. (Hear.)
Mr. HUME said he should vote for the principle of elec-
deo in preference to the principle of nomination, whichthe
was ale, nether opposed to ; but the election which he should
prefer was that kind of election by which the East India
Gempany had been and was now maintained. (Hear,)
sir J. HOOO said it appeared to him that the house was
agreed as to the expediency of 'election which was the
principle of the bill. He was sure the sole object of the
government and of the committee was to have those gen-
tlemen in the Court of Directors who could give the best
information on India, and who were best qualified to dis-
charge their duties. They must either give the selection to
the crown, or to the Court of Directors. If they gave it
to the crown what gentlemen would be candidates for the '

otfle ? Every gentlemen who thought himself fit for the
appointment would pat himself forward as one of the six
to be selected. And they would thus narrow and deterio-
rate the class of men who would come forward as candidates.
(Hear.) As far as his experience of the Court of Directors
went, it did not at all accord with the opinions of those
persons who expressed so great a horror of the system of
confusing. (Hear, Lear.) Did not the memhen of that
house, who spoke of not condescending to canvass, go about
themselves at every election to canvass for votes? (Hear,
hear) And there was this distinction in favour of the
Court of Directors, that when a member was once elected
and discharged his duties with ability, efficiency, and
honour, he was elected for life. (Hear, hear.) He could
only say for himself and for his colleagues on the board,
that if there had been anything dishonourable or hu-
miliating in the canvass, neither he nor they would have
condescended to it. (Hear, hear.) It appeared to
him that there were strong objections to the plan
of the government and also to the plan of the
right hon. gentleman, and it was for the committee to de-
termine on which side the balance of advantage lay.
Against the nomination by the crown of the six directors
the objection was urged, and with some weight, that those
di.ectors would be under the influence of the feeling that
they were so nominated in the discharge of their duties.
But for himself, he felt bound to say that he entertained no
such apprehension. He believed that those gentlemen who
hid passed their lives in the civil or military service of
India, would, when appointed to a seat in the direction,
discharge their duties there honourably, independently, and
uniefluenced by any consideration of the persons who ap
pointed them. (Hear) He thought that the suggestion
of the noble lord (Stanley) would make the proposition of
the government worse than it was, be-canse it would exclude
those gentlemen from being re-eligible when, from the
rxperience they had acquired, their services would be most
useful and beneficial. (Hear, hear.) He understood the
noble lord to say also that he would exclude those gentle.
men from sitting in that house, but he did not think that
the government or the committee would ever support a
scheme of that kind. He admitted that the principle of
self election was also liable to objection, but the Court of
Directors must at all events have a better knowledge of the
men who were most fit to be appointed than the President
of the Board of Control could possibly have. (Hear, hear.)
But whether the appointment rested with the one or the
other, he had no fears on the subject of the practical work-
ing of the plan. It was said it was desirable to have such
men as Lord Metcalfe and Mountstuert Elphinstone in the
board of direction. To be sure it wu, and he had no
doubt that if either of those gentlemen expressed a wish to
be members, they would be elected without canvass on the
next vacancy that occurred. (Hear, hear.) But such men
as Lord Metcalfe and Mountstuert Elphinstone were not
to be picked like blackberries. Sir G. Clerk, who was a
man of great talent and distinguished services in India,
stated before the committee that it had been intimated to
him that if be wished he might be elected to
the Court of Directors without a canvass. Heretofore the
Court of Directors had been regarded as the fountain of
all honours, at least of all appointments, and all the ser-
vants of the company looked up to them on that account.
Bnt what would be the can now, when the Court of Direc-
tor* were themselves partly condemned by having some of
their numbers curtailed. (Hear, hear.) They were ex.
eluded from all the nominations to the higher offices.
(Hear, bear.) In the civil service the appointments were to
be made by public competition. (Hear, hear.) It was the
same with regard to the medical appointments. With re-
gard to scientific appointments in the engineers and artillery
these were not made by the Court of Directors. With re-
ward to Addiscombe, the pupils there underwent a half-
)early examination and were appointed according to merit.
The great mass of youths who had attained the stan-
dard which fitted them for the artillery went out
as cadets—not as direct cadets but as infantry cadets—
and with the advantage of a good education. For
his own part he confined that he wished to see
Addisoombe extended; he wished to see a greater number
of young men proceed to India with the advantages of a
superior education. tinder the bill the whole of their
prestige was taken from the Court of Directors, all their
patronage was transferred to other hands, and the govern-
ment appeared desirous to make the situation of director as
little as possible an object of ambition or solicitation. He
would urge the government to make the office of director
as important as they could. A salary of 6001. a year
was not half so much as one given to a com-
missioner of customs or excise; and he did hope that
either by position, by influence, or by salary—by some
means or other, the office of director would be made an
object of honourable ambition to eminent men who had re-
turned from India. _ _

Mr. C. BRUCE said it appeared to him that there was
no clause in the bill which would lead more directly or
more distinctly to the extinction of the Court of Directors,
and of the system of government which had hitherto pre-
served India to this country, than the clause then under
consideration.
Mr. PHILLIMORE said he should, vote for the clause,
as he preferred directors nominated by the Crown to a body
entirely elected by the Court of Proprietors.
Mr. -MAJORIBANKS alluded to the recent election, and
cited Lord Ellenborough as an authority for infusing into
the board some exclusively English feeling.
Mr. PHILLIMORE explained that he had not cited the
ease with a view of insinuating the unfitness of Mr. Majori-
banks, the successful candidate.
Mr. T. BARING admitted that the present mode of
canvassing was an impediment to the appointment of gen-
tlemen who had spent the greatest portion of their lives in
India, and if the clause had only in view the remedying of
that evil, he should not have objected to it, but in his opi-
nion its main object was to strengthen the Board of Con-
trol, in a direction in which it bad never been considered
desirable that department should be strengthened.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that the government had no ob.
ject in view but that of securing the ablest and best men
for the Board of Directors. It was their sincere desire to
take ample security for the independence of that body,
which was to exercise no direct, hut certainly a great moral
influence over the government of India, by reason of the
intimate knowledge its members would have of the affairs
of that country. (Hear, hear.) He anticipated from the
proposition none of those evils which had been urged
against it on the other side ; but, on the contrary, he was
decidedly of opinion that, as compared with the system of
self-election, the proposal of the government was much
freer from objection.
Mr. BRIGHT said that unless it could be shown that
there would be no party spirit in 1874—that the patronage
would be banished from the hands of the ministers—thel
arguments used against the motion would be as strong then
as now, and it was as open in 1863 to have a consultative
council and a responsible minister as it would be in 1874.
(Hear, hear.) He thought the right hon. member for
Northampton had placed himself in the worst possible posi-
tion by the amendment he proposed. Objectionable as he
considered that bill, the amendment would make it far
more unsatisfactory than it was now.
Mr. NEWDEGATE considered that the direct action of
the clause was to undermine the principle of double go-
vernment, and after the declaration of the right hon.
baron, t that the double govetnment might possibly cease
Wore 1874, he did not see how any one who was favourable
to that principle could vote for the government proposition.
Mr. MANOLZS and Mr. HILDTARD opposed the clause.
The committee then divided :
For the amendment

Against it 193-82

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved the insertion of the fol-
lowing words:—" Teat on or before the first Wednesday in
April, 18.54, the 15 directors hereafter appointed to meet and
act as the Court of Directors, shall prepare a list of 12 per-
sons whom they shall deem best qualified to act as directors,
and who shall have had 20 years, at least, in the service of
the Crown in India, or in the service of the said company in
India; and it shall be lawful for her Majesty, out of the
said list of 12 persons," Le.
Sir C. WOOD said this proposal was very objectionable.
It narrowed the choice of the Crown, by requiring 20, in-
stead of 10 years service in India, which would exclude
judges of the supreme courts, and many civil and military
officers. The list once formed, it would be kept permanently
full by the directors. He objected to the term of 20 years,
and to the keeping • permanent list, which might be
filled with persons worn out by age.
After a few words from Mr. Holtz,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said the right hon. gentleman
had only excepted to the details of the amendment ; would
he accept the principle of it ?
Mr. T. BARING said the last division of the committee
showed that they supported the views of the government as to
the appointment of the six directors resting with the crown.
Having done that, it was their duty to take all precautions
to prevent that patronage being made available fur parlia-
mentary purposes. It was desirable that words should be
inserted in the clause providing that those persons should
not have quitted the Indian service for more than five
years.
The amendment was then negatived.
On the proposition to fill up the blank before the word
"yeah" with the word " two,"
Mr. RICH moved, as an amendment, that the word
" three" be inserted. He urged that the number of years
should be 3, 6. end 9, instead of 2,4, and 6.
Sir C. WOOD contended that if that was done es re-
garded the nominated directors, it must be extended to
those who were elected, and as the time for the service of
those directors was now four years, it would be, in fact,
doubling the time, which, by the bill, was already extended
to six years.
Mr. BRIGHT objected to a short term of service, on the
ground that as it now stood the director' were eligible for
re-election, and there was a subsequent clause,
making them eligible for seats in that house. Ile
thought that would tend to destroy their independence
both in the direction and in that house. If a
director was elected for eight years and positively not
eligible fur re-election during that period, he would be as
independent of the government as he should be, and if he
was a member of that house he would have no temptation
as he came near the end of his time to be more assiduous
to the Treasury Bench. He thought that East India
directors had a strong leaning towards the Treasury Bench,
and he hail recently noticed an increasing affection between'
East India directors and the President of the Board of
Control, and he was not certain if the bill passed as it was
whether they would have those members of the house more
independent. If the clause remained as it was, making
the terms of service two, four, and six year.,
then he should move the expulsion of the clause
which allowed the nominee directors seats in parlia-
ment, for unless they were excluded on Indian questions
they should not only have the President of the Board of
Control and the member for Honker' to contend with, but
would be trebled, ucd members would be borne down by
the accumulated evidence of persons all interested in the
same transactions and equally desirous of smothering the
truth. It would be better to have the service terminable at
the end of ten years, without any power of re-eleotion.

Perhaps the government would agreeiito postpone the clause
and consider the point.
Sir J. \V. HOGG complained that the hon. member for
Manchester never rose to speak in that house without being
personal. He had never known en occasion on which the
hon. member rose without being personal and offensive.
He called on the hon. member to explain what he meant
with regard to the member for Honiton and his leaning
towards the treasury b, nch. He would tell the hon.
member that his (Sir J. W. Hogg's) conduct in parliament
was as honest and as indenendeat as his own, and he had
had opportunities which the hon. member for Manchester
had not for evincing that independence, sod showing that
Ifs could make personal sacrifices when he thought they
were consistent with the interests of India. He had never
before stated this publicly. His attention had been called
to the remarks of the hon. member on a former occasion,
and he appeared to have something on his mind which he
did not give utterance to. lie would tell the hon.
member that he (Sir J. lingg) was not devoid o:
that ambition which caused men to aspire to the
dignity of office, nor did he ;intend to be such a
Puritan as to be indifferent to its emoluments. But he
could say, that nine years ago he was sent for by Sir Ho-
bert Peel, and offered offic.,, high as regarded both rank
and emoluments, and including the enrolment of his name
among her Majesty's Privy Council. Ile was proud of such
an honour coming from such a 11111.—(cheers)—and he
pledged his honour that it was offered without solicitatios
on his part. He, however, declined, because he hail just
been appointed Chairman of the Emit IndiaCon;pany. He
did not doubt that his colleagues would have had
confidence in his independence, but he preferred'
' avoiding even the appearance of hazarding that
independence. It was at the time of the
Sikh war, and had he been only a director, he should have
g!adly accepted the office offer. d to him ; but, as it was, he
would not abandon his colleagues in such circumstances,
. and he intimated to S:r It.ibert Peel that he could not
t accept it consistently with his feeling or duty towards India.
I He pledged his honour that he had never mentioned to one
r of his colleagues that the offi r hail been made to him, and
f not to more than two or three living had he ever mentioned
! it, though any one might have been proud of such an offer,
t whether es regarded itself, or with reference to the man
1 ) who made it. (Cheers.) He hoped he might be pardoned
s fcr trespassing on the house, but he thought he might be
• excused under the eircums.anci s. (Cheers.)

Mr. BRIGHT—The honourab:e member had referred to
something which had occurred on a former debate, and he '
seemed to think that he (Mr. Bright) had not shown a
readiness to say what he thought. He (Mr. Bright) be-
lieved he geaerally raid what he thought. (Hear, and a
laugh). He certainly did allude to the hon. gentleman,
and to his ambition. He did not blame him for his ambi-
tion, as he believed that many men would not do so much
public good if they did not possess ambition. With regard
to what he (Mr. Bright) had said to-night—he meant
nothing offensive. He was perhaps not sufficiently regard-
ful of the feelings of the directors in the delicate position in
which they were placed, but he would take care for the
future not to wound them on a tender point. (Laughter.)
Lord STANLEY was understood to support the amend-
ment.

After some further conversation, the amendment was
withdrawn.

Mr. T. BARING moved the insertion, after the words
• •

"or the service of the said company There," the w,rds
" and shall not have quitted such service fur more than the
space of five years." His object was to ensure that succes-
sion of new blood which they had been told was desirable.
Sir C. WOOD suggested that the amendment would limit
the choice of the crown too much, and th it it might in fact
prevent the appointment of the most valuable men.
Viscount JOCELYN also objected to the amendment, on
the same ground.
Mr. BARING then withdrew the amendment.
Mr. BRIGHT moved the omission of the last two lines of
the clause, which rendered it necessary for the crown
nominees to possess the same qualification as the elects('
directors. He had been told of a case in which a very dis-
tinguished officer, a gentleman who was likely to be ap-
pointed, would have found it very inconvenient to purchase
the necessary amount of stock.
Sir T. H. MADDOCK perfectly agreed with the hon.
member. . .

Sir C. WOOD said the only object of the provision was
to assimilate all the members of the board. It was very
desirable also that the nominees should be directly as inte-
rested as the other directors in the welfare of the company.
Mr. BOWYER admitted that the qualification would
produce a community of interest between the two classes of
directors ; but it would be a bad argument if it was the only
argument in favour of the pima that faithfulness to Indian
interests, was only to be obtained by direct pecuniary consi-
derations of this soft. (Hear, hear.) The plan was bared
on the presumption that high and independent character
was to he obtained by the Crown for the service of the
company, irrespective of such considerations. On that
ground he would support the amendment.
The CHAIRMAN asked, would Mr. Bright divide?
Mr. BRIGHT was anxious the Pre:tdent of the Board of
Control should further consideg this point. He (Mr.
Bright) had heard no argument against the amendment.
The qualification for nominees was a mere puerile form—a
blunder; and now that it was pointed out, the right hon.
gentleman should give way. (Cheers.) The beet of the
Indian "eremite, at this day, came home without fortunes,
with nothing but their pensions to live on ; and, under this
bill, such men could only get seats from the crown by going
into debt for qualification. (Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL admitted that there was great weight
in what the hon. member for Manchester had said. (Loud
cheers.) He (Lord J. Russel) should have been glad if the
house generally had expressed its opinion on the point; but
as matters stood, he thought there was reason for adopting
the hon. member's suggestion. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. DISRAELI was glad the noble lord saw the matter
in that light. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) Nothing
was more absurd than to create without an object a facti-
tious property qualification, and that was what the right
hon. gentlemen was proposing to be dune. (Hear, hear.)
lie hoped the committee would therefore agree that these
words should be excluded. (Hear, hear.)
The amendment was then agreed to.
Mr. lIUME hoped that as the amendment had been
adopted the right hon. gentleman would propose to get rid
of the qualifications of the other directors. ("Hear, hear,"
and laughter.)
Sir 11. MADDOCK would undertake that the hon. mem-
ber should hear some proposal of that sort.
Mr. BOWYER thought the hon. member for Montrose
was wrong in supposing that there would he an inconsis-
tency in having a qualification for the elected class of di-
rectors. No doubt, however, all qualifications of this sort
were unwise, as, for instance, in that house, where the
Scotch members were not the least useful members.
(question.)
Clause 3 (as amended) was then agreed to.
Mr. BRIGHT hoped, at this point, that the chairman
would be permitted to report progress.
Sir C. WOOD—Let us go on with the unopposed clauses.
Mr. BRIGHT—Oh, nonsense ! They must all be dis-
cussed.

Some conversation tcok place, but at Sir C. WOOD'S en-

Clause 4 was taken.
Sir J. HOGG suggested lira as by this clause the number
of directors was to be reduced, the government ought itself
to undertake the invidious duty of pointing out which of
the present directors should be gut rid of, and which should
be retained. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI hail no doubt the government would
feel indebted to the hon. baronet for the suggestion, for if
lit was agreed to, then the government would, of course,
retain those gentlemen who happened to sit on its own side
of the house; and practically the government would thus
increase the number of its nominee directors. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT—Of course. The only way would be to
leave the proprietors themselves to settle the matter. If he
were the member for Honiton, he should move an amend-
ment that the directors to remain be elected by the pro-
prietors.
The blank was then filled up with fifteen."
Mr. OTWAY said the hon. member for Honiton bad not
given an answer to the question of the hon. member for
Manchester. He had no confidence in the elections of the
directors. An instance bad occurred lately in which the
directors had supported a candidate as director who had
never been in India in preference to one who had been there
24 years.
Sir J. W. HOGG said the Governor-General and most
of the public officers of India were of opinion that all the
directors should not be men who bad been in India. For
years they had only had one individual elected who had
net been in India, and the time had come when they ought
to select one who had not been in India. Besides, Mr.
Majoribanks had no occupation save that of East India
director, and by birth, talent, and fortune, he was emi-
nently qualified.
After a few obaervatioas from Mr. Irma, the clause, as
amenaed, was agreed to.
The house then resumed, and the Chairman reported
progress.
Sir C. WOOD said he proposed to go on with the bill
after the Legacy Duties Bill en Thursday, and then on
Friday,
STAMP DUTIES (No. 1) BILL.
This bill was read a third time and paned.
BRECON COLLEGIATE CHURCH BILL.
- - • - •

Thisbill was read a third time and passed.
LAND REVENUES BILL.
This hill wa read a third time and passed.
COINAGE OFFICES (COLONIES) BILL.

This bill passed through committee.
COPIES OF SPECIFICATIONS REPEAL BILL.
On the order of the day for going into committee on
this bill,
Mr. COWAN objected to the provision which allows du-
plicates only of specifications to be sent to Edinburgh and
Dahlin from the London office, and said the patentees ought
to deposit originals.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he•only proposed to
go into committee pro forma, in order that numerous alters-
might be printed. Ile found that the course he in-
tended to pursue would cost the patentee 30/., while dupli-
cates might he sent from the office here for as many
shillings.
Mr. %VIIITESIDE said the bill of last year was scarcely
passed but it w.is systematically evaded. Not ens specifi-
' cation was sent to Dublin. The bill as it now stood was
unintelligible, and it was utterly impossible to carry it into
operation. He should oppose the bill at every stage.
I Mr. HOU VERIE observed that it was unusual to object
I to a bill going into committee pm /Or ma.
Col. DUNNE objected to sending to Ireland ;copies
which were not legal' evidence in courts of justice. Ile
had no wish to impede the natter, hut he strongly objected
to the principle of centralization which characterised the
bill.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said there was a clause
ia the act which he thought would obviate that difficulty.

Mr. DUNLOP complained that ihe hill had atondover m
long. Ile had come down there night utter night. mere!
to Ice it put off .i cnntinually.
After a feei words from Mr. De

Mr. ASI6LLE IT said that he hut stu-dentood that duph
efoc copier ..f the Went were to be lodged in each country,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that one of the ob.
jectr of the bill suuld be to make copier of specifications
lodged at Dublin or Edinburgh, evidence of a want.
The bill then passed through committee.
GENERAL BOARD OF HEALTH (No. 3) BILL.
Ou the moti.of that the Spt .ther do leave the chair,
Sir G. PECHELL °fleeted to the house going into cora-
, mittee at that time (10 minutes past 1).

—Vi; W. MOLESWORTII hoped that the bon. gcn.lrman
would not oppose this hill ; its objec; was only to tvehd to
certain towns, which dtsired it, local self•g,%ernmrnt in
sanitity matters. if it was postpomd until tomorrow it
would come on at as late an hour.

Colonel HARCOURT emulilaMed that this act was ap.
plied to the town of Ityde, although it had lwen mid( mess%
that the order of the Board of health was not to extend to
that place. It h.id heen distinctly settled between the au.
thorities of the borough and the hoard that ite orders viers
not to extend to ltyde, and that settlement had not been
acted up to. This was a fact that should nut be lost sight
of when the time for renewing the commission of the
board came round. . . .

Mr. GEACII tail it was a mistake to suppose that be.
cause a town council had voted iu faruur of this bill, the
borough which elected the c•tuncil was favourable to it
also. lie thought this bill ought not to be pressed on at
that late hour, when the parties interested in it could have
no opportuni'y of making their wishes known, sad be
hoped the house would not ander the bill to be committed

to night.
Mr. HALSEY also resisted the Emtion for going int,
committee, and informed the house that the town of Merl•
ford, which was included in thi. bill, did not wish Inc t►a
interference of the Board of 14. alth.
Mr. COWPER, on the other hand, as one of the repro.
sentatives for Hertford, declur d that the majority of the
inhabitants were decilidly in favour of the application's(
tke Health Act to their town.
-

The house theta went into committee on the hill, and 'he
clauses were :greed to, Yeovil being struck out, afttr winch
the house resumed.

DUBLIN PARLIAMENTARY REGISTRATION.
The house is committee agreed to a resolution pcpritliag
for the payment of the barristers of this court.

CANTERBURY ELECTION,

Mr. K. SENMEIt ruse to move th. further suspension
of the Canterbury a tit until the 20th instant. The
Canterbury Commission had eoircluded their inquiry, and
be apprehended Carle report would be in the hands of
members in a very short timc. He begged, therefore, to
state the course which he intend, d to pursue in this matter
On the 29th, he should ask the nohl • lord the member ter
the City of London, whether it was the intentio n of the go-
vernment to bring forww d and carry through parliament
any measure affecting the seat fur Canterbury, and thould
the noble lord answer in the affirmative, he should be pre-
pared to move the further suspension of the writ; but,
should the noble lord's reply be in the negative, it was his
intention to move the immediate issue of the writ.
The motion was then agreed to.
BETTING HOUSES.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved for leave to bring
in a bill fur the suppres ion of betting houses, and in doing
59 he said it was not neceseury for him to make any length-
ened statement upon the .subject, as the evils which had
arisen from the introduction of these:establishments were
perfectly non rious and acknowledged upon all hands.
(Hear, hea•.) The difficulty, however, which arose in
legislating upon this subject was to be found in
the di•inclination which was felt against interfer-
ing with that description of betting which had so
long existed in connexion with the great national
sport of horse racing, but these establishments
assumed a totally different aspect to that, while the letting
which they carried on was of a perfectly different nature,
and based upon an entireiy different system. (Hear, hear.)
The object then of this bill was to suppress them without
interfering with that legitimate species of betting to which
he had referred, and prevent persons from opening houses
or booths for the purpose of betting. The keepers
of such objectionable establishments, besting as they
did with all corners, were distinguishable from
places like attersall'e, where the betting was

carried on with no person in particular, 'because
they kept banks against all comer-, and it was upon that
distinction that the present legislation would be founded.
(Hear, hear.) It would prohibit the opening of houses, or
shops, or booths for the purpose of betting, and inasmuch
as it appeared that the mischief of the existingvicious system
seemed to arise from the advancing of money in the first
instance with the expectations of receiving a larger sum on
the completion of a certain event, it was proposed to pro-
hibit the practice by distinct lrgi lative enactment. (Hear,
hear.) The mischief arising from the existence
of these betting gimps were perfectly notorious. Servants,
apprentices, and workmen, induced by the temptation of
receiving a large sum for a small one, take their few shil-
lings to there places, and the first effect of their losing was
to tempt them to go on spending their money, in the hope
of retrieving their losses; and t'or this purpose it not *in-
frequently happened that they were driven into robbing
their masters and employers. (Hear.) lhere was not a
prison or a house of correction in London which
did net every day furnish abundant and conclusive
testimony of the vast number of youths who were led into
crime by the temptation of these establishments, of which
there were from WO to lilt/ in the metropolis alone, while
there was a considerable number in the large towns of
the provinces. Ile believed this bill would have the etlect
of suppressing most of them, or, at all events, of prevent-
ing the spread of an evil which was admitted on
all hands. (Hear, hear.) It had been suggested
that the noire effectual course would be the
licensing of these houses, but for his own part he believed
that would be discrediable to the government, and would
only tend to add to the mischief which they must all be
anxious to stop. (Ileac, hear.) Ho trusted and believed
the bill which he now Bought to introduce would have the
desired effect, and lie hoped the house would offer no ob-
jection to his bringing it in. (Hear, hear.)
Leave was then given to bring in the bill.
The other orders were then disposed of, and the house
adjourned at twenty minutes to two, until twelve o'clock
to•murrow (this day).

VD, court.
PRINCE ALBERT'S HEALTH.

The following bulletin of Prince Albert's health
was issued yesterday:
" BUCKINGHAM PALACE, MONDAY, JULY n, 1853.

"Ras Royal Highness Prince Albert is passing through
the disclaim favourably. " JAMES CLARK, M.D."
The Queen, accompanied by the Princess Royal and
the Princess Alice, and &waded by the lion. Flora Mac-
donald, took a drive yesterday morning in an open landau
and four. Colonel Bouverie, Equerry iu Waiting, attended
on horseback.