The Express.
London, England, 1848-06-30 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, JUNE 30, 1848.

Lord J. RUSSELL said they would take the resolutions
respecting the sugar duties to-morrow, and proceed with
them until they were reported to the house.
UNPRODUCMD DESPATCHES.
Lord G. BENTINCK said he would take that opportu-
nity of putting • questiou to the noble lord the First
Lord of the Treasury, to the President of the Board of Trade,
and to the Under Secretary for the Colonies, of which he had
given them W notice. He wished to ask what explanation
or answer they had to give to his challenge to them to recon-
cile the fact of the existence of a number of despatches in the
Colonial-office with the statement of the Pr. sident of the
Board of Trade in that house upon the Bth of February ?
On that day Mr. Ooulhurn asked if any papers had been
omitted to he presented relative to the state of our West
India colonies. The President of the Board of Trade, as it
appeared by " Ilansard's Debetes," replied to this, that,
having had notice of the question, he had made inquiri. a at
the Colonial-office, and was enabled to state that t e reason
that no blue book was upon the table was because it had nut
up to that time been received. That, so far, was perfectly
correct. But the right hon. gentleman went on to
say that, "owing to the ample information forwarded
from Jamaica by the late Governor-General, Lord Elgin,
Sir Charles Grey had stated that he could add nothing to
those sources of intelligence, and that consequently no
despatch had been received giving any general account of the
state of Jiunaiea, but that as soon as any such were received
Earl Grey would communicate them forthwith to parlia-
ment." Now at the very time that statement was made
there were in the possession of the Colonial office no less
than five despatches, which, if not of any great importance
themselves, covered representations of the tint consequence.
One of these—
The SPEAKER here interrupted the noble lord, end re-
quested him to confine himself to his question. (Loud cries
of " Haar, hear.")
Lord J. RUSSELL. Perhaps it would shorten the
noble lord's statement, it he was at once made aware that
the report be refers to is not • correct statement of what my
right hon. friend said.
lord 0. BENTINCK said what he wanted to know was,
how this statement could be r conciled with the facts.
Lastly, he wished to ask the right hon. gentleman how he
reconciled the aircumstantie that on the Bth Feb. he said that
no despatches from Januics had been received, whereas on
the 7th February Lon! Grey had quoted one in another place ?
Mr. LABOUCHERE was perfectly satisB, d that the en-
gagement he had given, in the name of the Colonial office,
had been strictly full, led, to the spirit and to the letter, by
the Colonial-[[Mice. The general account of the st te of Ja-
maica which, at tho time referred to, he had stated nut to
have arrived, had not arrived then, nor had it arrived up to
the present moment. It was this Blue Book, a general
account, that the Colonial office contemplated, in the reply
which, on the part of that ottice, he had been in-
structed to give. lie had, on the same occasion, inform• d
the house that, though there was no blue-book account re-
ceived, there were other despatches from Jamaica, so well as
from the other colonies, which he promised should he laid
on the table of The house with the least possible delay. This
was on the Bth Feb On the 9th Felt it so happened that
the West India committee made an order for the production
before it of papers relating to the West Indies. and the only
eistoge of arrangement hereupon made by the Colonial-office
wan, that instead of having the papers prepared fur the table
of use house, it kad them prepared for the committee, the
instructions to this dfect being immedi itely given out. Tem-
a was not until the Bth March that all the papers were
in the ha;ols of the committee; but that delay was
occasioned ao.'i ly by the extreme voluminousness of the do-
cuments which had to he coned and printed. It was nut
denied, however, that ail these deepatehee were then hod
before the committee, including the particulir despatch to
which so much re!'erence had been made. Having made
this simple viplanation, he would put it to the house and to
the node lord hiuss. If whither the conduct of
the colonial-office bad le en in any degree inconsist-
ent with the pledge which, in the name of that
office., he had given to the house on the Bth of
Feb.? (Hear, hear.) On the receipt of the noble lord's
letter to him that morning he hail considered it his duty to
go down to the C-lonial-office. The inquiries he had there
made had fully confirmed his previous impression, which,
indeed, required no confirmation, that the conduct of the
chiefs of that department had been perfectly in keeping with
their high and honourable character, public and private.
(Hear, hear.)

SUGAR DUTIES.
Mr. DARKLY asked the Chancf nor of the Exchequer
what course he i :tended to pursue with reference to the
duties on sugar, the present duties expiring on Wednesday
next, the .sth of July, and the new duties not being yet

adopted ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he
trusted tho house would agree to the rtsuiutions that
evening, to that the report might he received to-marrow.
Ile should, in that cue, issue directions on Monday to the
customs to levy the new rates of duty on and after Wed-

nudity.
Mr. BRIGHT wished to put a ques'ion of matetill im-
portance to comma rce. The govt rout( ut only tire wet kit
ago stated that they would make no change in the act of
1846. Upon the faith of this promise many merchants had
ordered consignments of sugar in the matter of course ex-
pectation that, aver the sth Jul.', the would he admitted at
18s. 6d.' whereas. under the proposed duties they would he
charged 20s. Doi the Chancellor of the Exchequer mean
to mulct these parties to the extent of Is. 6d. per cwt. each
for havinx put faith in the distinct promise of the govern-
ment, on the 30:h May, that the act of '46 was to be

adhet:ed to ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
whenever resolutions of the house ordered the imposition of
higher duties upon articles, those duties were forthwith levied
as a matter of course, without any notice to holders of goods

whether in bond or afloat.
Mr. ROBINSON.—But suppose the importers, in the cue
put by the hon. member fur Manchester, Muse to I,sy the
higher duty?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—Then we
shall not allow their goods to be entered
Mr. HILDYA RD would put it to the Attorney General.
as a matter of law, whether the holders of such goods would I
not be entitled to recover &images from the government, it
their goods, excluded by order of the government, wider •
mere resolution of the house, tuffi.red &psis elation meantime
in the meeker?
The ATTORNEY.GENERAL said that before any such
issue could be tried the re-olutions would have become the
law of the hied, valid from the period at which the resolu-
tions were adopted.
Mr. HUDSON reminded the Attorney-General of the
case in wide, a corn importer had recovered damages from
the government for losses sustained by the nine il to admit
his consignment between tne expiration of the, former corn
law and the peration of the new corn law.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said that in that case the
imp titer got a verdict he.auee, by same ove&ght, an in-
terval of one day occurred between the expiration it the old
law and the commencement of the new law. The court,
however, only gave damages estimated upon that one day,
so that Hits case confirmed the opinion he had expressed.

COMMERCIAL DISTRESS EVIDE&CE.

Mr. NEWDEGATE wished to iok the right hon. mem
ber for Portsmouth whether the committee upon commer-
cial distress had refused to hear the evidence of Mr. Sheriff
Alison and of Mr. Black• r, an Irish gentleman also of much
practical informs ion on the subjects into which the commit-
tee were appointed to inquire ?
The SPEAK Elt said that if this question referred to por-
tions of eviuence not already beturo the hou,e, it could
not be put.
Mr. NEWDEGATE would ask, then, whether the class
of evidence to which lie alluded had already been reported
upon to the house ?
The SPEAK Elt, however, having intimated that this
form of internization was also irregular, the matter
dropped.
MAJOR FAGAN.
Mr. FAGAN wished to put a question to the hon. Under
Secretary ter the Colonies. Two years ago Mayor Fagan, an
old East India officer, had been appointed stipendiary ma•
pistrate at Trinidad for the especial purpose of administering
justice as between Coolies ihemselves, and between Coolies
and other classes of her Majesty's subjects; and he had per-
formed this duty up to the date of a recent despatch from the
governor of Trinidad. From this despatch, it appeared that
a case had arisen in which a Mr. Johnson had been brought
before Major Fagan for assaulting a Cooly. lio wished to
ask whether Major Farm was authorise-el or not to exercise
those posers which the governor of Trinidad refused to re-
cognise in him.
Mr. HAW ES, without saying a word as to the contro-
verted matter, would simply r ply that Major Fagan had
been appointed stipendiary magistrate at Trinidad two years
ago, by the right hon. member for the univer-ity of Oxford,
on the recommendation of the East India Company ; that ha
hail been, in doe course, placed by the governor of the colony
in the commission of the peace for the colony ; that he
was still in that commission, and empowered to exercise the
powers attendiue the function.
• PARLIAKEN LARY REFORM.—MR. HUME'S
MOT lON.

Mr. B. OSBORNE Raid he wanted to know distinctly
what understanding had been entered into between the no-
toe lord nesr him and the hon. member for Montrose, about
the motion which was certainly to have come on to-morrow,
but which now really seemed delayed sine dice
Lord J. RUSSELL—Thursday. (A laugh.)
EVICTED TENANTS (IRELAND).
Mr. P. SCROPE asked the Secretary for Ireland whether
the government possessed. or bad taken measures to obtain,
any information as to the extent to which wholesale evic-
tion and the leveling of dwelling-houses is now being and
has been recently carried on by some landlords in Ireland ;
and further, whether it was intended, when the Eviction of
Tenants Bill should be returned to them from another
place, to give the house a proper opportunity for considering
the amended measure
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that information on the sub-
ject was already before the house.
Sir 0 GREY added that he had just received the Eels-
lion of Tenants (Ireland) Bill from the House of Lords, and
would at once beg to move that Vie bill, as amended by the
lords, be printed.—Ordered.
SUGAR DUTIES—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
Sir R. IL INGLIS complained that throughout the de-
bates which had hitherto taken place on the subject of the
West India sugars, so little had been said as to the con-
dition and prospects of the slave trade. lie did not desire,
after the manner of the hon. member for the Tower Hamlets,
to revert to the stock stories about the cruelties exercised in
formes times in the transmission of slaves to the West Indies,
and their treatment after reaching that destination, but
he desired that the s .bjeet should ant be lost sight
of with reference to future event,. He did not
ihny that the price of sugar was of importance to
a large class of his poorer fellow countrymen, but he was
not prepared to give them sugar at a sacrifice which would
render it dear indeed. Mr. Canning once said that he could
prove anything h► figures, and far that reason he would not
pretend to establish any argument by quoting prices and du-

ties, but he would merely assert that, under the proposed
clptier, the protection would not amount to Id. per lb. The
price of sugar was a perfect barometer in respect to its con-
sumption. le therefore, be could show that the decrease of
ld. per lb. in the prise of sugar was purchased at
• terrible sacrifice of African life and liberty, be should con-
eider he had established sufficient grounds for the vote be in-
tended to give. It had been said on • former night of the
debate that the question of admitting slave sugar had been
definitively settied. He believed this was not the cue. But
supposing even that It was, he should never shrink from en-
tering bin protest against • measure by which the evils of
slavery were perpetuated. Unless it could :be proved that
the thousand* of whites interested in the question had not
been sacrificed I.y the measures of the government,
whi h provided cheap sugar for the multitude, ne
should not think that those measures could be justified.
The British West Indies presented NO important a portion of
the great empire with which they had been so long identi-
fied, as to justify to the full the protection that was claimed
tor them. His right hon. colleague bad indeed urged that
some slave grown sugar must always be admi-ted under the
existing treaties with foreign countries; but could not these
treaties be altered ? The Brasile had definitively refused to
make any concessions on the score of slavery. Ile was quite
aware that the Emperor of the Brazils was opposed to
slavery, and wtth such a groundwork the government might
hope in a few years to effect some change in the laws of that
country respecting slavery; but the measures taken
by the legislature had greatly marred those expecta-
tions; and, moreover, the slave trade had considerably
revived since the act tai 1846, as the returns of the number of
slaves imported into the Brissils since that year would prove.
All the evidence that had been given upon committees on
the subject of slavery, and the facilities of precuris g slaves
on the coast of Africa tended to prove that ths supply was
Arroyo' equal to the demand, and that when slaves were re-
quired war was resorted to, and the captives were sold to
supply the necessary quantity. Upwards of 100,000 or
these miserable creature.* had annually left the coast, of
whom one third died during their transit to the colonies of
Cuba and the Brands. The important question was,
in fact, whether they wends! or would not continue
Use slave trade. Looking at it in that view, be-
Hewing that trade to be the cruse of unmitigated
misery to thousands, and believing also that the government
measure was caleu.ated to perpetuate the evil, he felt hound
to support the amendment of the hon. baronet the member
for Droitvech. (liner, hear.)
At the conclusion of the hon. baronet's speech about thirty
members on the conservative aide rose simultaneously, but at
last gave way to
Mr. BARELY, who spoke in an low a tone as to lw fre-
quently itiaudibie. The hon member said that nothing
could be more inconsistent with the suggestion which he had
made to the comuottee of a protection for three years, than
the government proposition for tinkering up the act of
1846. ills ar, hear ) lie had much to complain of in the
spe. ch delivered on a f rater evening by the hon. Under
Secretary fur the Colonies. bat hon. member had told the
house that the distress in the West Indies arose generally
from recklessness and extravagance in management ; that
wages were not high—indeed, that what was necessary was
to raise wages. (Hear, hear.) Ile (Mr. Barkly) c..uld not
conceive how any sine who had read tne despatches of the
various governors, fortified by the testimony of numberless
gratin were, could make such an assertion. (Hear, hear )
had been alleged that the West Indians were always mur-
uterine ; but the fact was that during the period from 1706
kr 1832 only two committees of that You-e had sat to inquire
into Wrist Indian distress. What was the rsition in
which we had placed them ? We had compelled them to
send their sugar to the mother country exclusively, and
when it arrived there it was subjected to an enormous duty.
In addition to that, they had been subjected to the Milan
and Berlin decrees, so that at one time there had accumu-
lated in this country 140,000 hOds., for which there was no
consumption. The hon. member proceeded to recapitulate
the proceedings of committees which had sat from 1832 down
to the present day, contending that all the suguestionn made
by those committees for the be netit of the West Indies hod
teen unattended to, until in 184 G the bill of the government
brought them into sudden and unprepared competition with
the slave-owners of Cuba. One of the charges against the
planters was that at the period of emancipation they had en-
deavoured to reduce the tiezrees to the condition of serfs.
All tf.ey had done was to endeavour to introduce the vagrant
act of the other country, and the mode of doing so had
been ruler_ ised by a pretty good authority, the late Lord
Metcal.e, when governor of Jamaica. lie thought the
planters had some cause to complain of the Coluniel-uthee
that. the lowa against squatting had been an long del .yid.
( Ileor. hear.) He hoped, after the announcement of the
nun. Under Secretary, on a former evening, that that cause
of complaint would not much longer exist. (Hear, hear.)
flip opine)n of the proposed loan was, that it was inconsistent
with the other portion of the government proposition, the
tendency of which was to meow the ; lantatioris entirely out
of cultivation. The hon. Under-Secretary had said that the
planters lied not fully developed the resources of the it ea
t .tea—that their production might be wonde real increased.
That might he true or it might not, but at all events it was
not to be done in a day, and cou:d never he done without
s-m, assistance in the way of protection. Ile (Mr. Darkly)
Woke 1 upon the hon. m. miser for Westbury as a much
more reesunable man than the boa. undersecretary, hut
stil there were WM.: of his assertions which should ant pass
unnoticed. The hon. member had, among other thi gs,
ass. fled that the cost of production was higher in Cuba than
the British colonies. All he (Mr. Barkly) should say is
reply to that was, that the committee hid investigate d the
matter most fully, and had come to the conclusion that a
protecting duty of 104. wou d be necessary :o bring them sin
a level. Every speech on the government side of the question
ail been wound up with en appeal to the interests of the
consumer. The right hon. baronet the member or Rip in
had made powerful use of that point, alleging thot the bill
of 1h46 had worked well for the consumer. But that was a
were begging of the question. The question was, whether
the British consumer would be benefited by ruining the
planter altogether? ar, hear.) Either the evidence
which had been given before the committee must have been
lies from beginning to end, or else it was quite clear that the
estates had been worked last year at a loss, which loss would
become ruin if means were not taken to prevent it. (Hear.)
Mr. LAisOUCHERE was so anxious that the house
should mane to a division on that evening that he would not
have risen but fur the fact that he had been a member of
the sugar planting committee, Of that committee he w sold,
with eunfidence, say, that no body of gentlemen had ever
assembled in that house more anxious to arrive
at the exact truth in ev ry particular. (Hear, hear.)
It was impossible to have listened to the miserable details of
distress which had been laid before that committee without
fee line a deep anxiety that some speedy means might he de-
vised for the relief of our West India colonies ; but looking
to the rew lotion to which the committee had come, it would
seem that nothing had been done in that direction beyond
recommending • protecting duty of 10s. per ton.
11e believed that, had not the members for Cam-
bridge Univer-ity and for Liverpocl withdraw", even
that resolution would not have been agreed to.
Therefore this proposal of a 10+. duty for six years, though
recommended by the committee, could not be said to repre-
sent the general opinion of that committee, but was, he be.
lieved, opposed to the views of the majority. That, how-
ever, was not of so much consequence as whether it sees the
proposition which the house r meht to adopt. His objection
to that proposal was not so much that it would be injurious
to the interests of the consumer, as that it would not benefit
th • planters theinaelvcs. The evidence given by every one
of the witnesses examined by the committee went to show
that the cultivation of sugar in the colonies depended on
the bringing the rate of wages down to a reasonable level,
which, while it should give fair remuneration to the latour-
sr, should secure at the same tints. a fair profit to the em-
ployer ; and, he believed, nothing would he so attractive to
the real interests and prosperity of the planters as the
notion that a considerably increased protection would be
guaranteed to them for a number 01 years. (Hear.) The
hon. gentleman the member for Leominster (Mr. Darkly)
Premed impressed with the truth of that opinion when he ad-
vised, in committee (differing in this respect from many
others of the West India body), a protection of 10s. for two
years only, and then gradually to drop protection altogether.
Now, the hon. gentleman, as he understood him, recom-
mended a protective duty of 10s. for three years, and then
that it should cease altogether, without allowing the gradual
dropping scale to come into operation at all.
Mr. DARKLY was understood to say that he had made
a proposition to the same effect to the committee.
Mr. LABOUCHERE helieven that the West India body
generally would prefer the government plan to such •
scheme. (Hear, hear.) He believed every one who hal
poken on the subject, except his hon. friend the member for
<Word Uuivereity (Sir It. Inglis), contemplated a speedy
equalisation of duties between foreign and colonial sugar,
and the duty of the impulse' parliament was so to legislate
as to prepare the West India colonies for that free and open
competition which must follow such equalisation. Now he
could conceive no worse preparation than to restore a high
amount of protection, and having encouraged them to extend
their cultivation under such a system, suddenly to expos,:
them to open competition with the foreigner when the pro-
tection teased. (Hear, hear.) And the injurious effects of
such a scheme would nut be confined to the West India colo-
nies; it would be most disastrous also to the East Indies that
an artificial and short-lived impetus to the cultivation of
sugar should be given—an impetus not based on the sound
principle of free competition, but on a system which must
he attended with ruin as soon as open competition succeeded.
This was the reason which induced hint to think that they
would not benefit the West Indies by largely increasing the
amount of protection. The next proposition made to the
committee was that of the right hon. gentleman the mem-
ber for the university of Oxford (Mr. Gladstone). He laid
it down that the most advisable course for parliament to
pursue was to continue the present protection duty of Os. for
six years, and then allow it to cease altogether. That pro-
posal did not appear to have met with that amount of appro-
bation its author might be supposed to have anticipated.
The West India body, he believed, of the two would prefer
the plan of the government to that of the right hon. gentle.
man. (Ne.) At all events that was the view taken by
many of that body, and he was not surprised at it ; for the
right hon. gentleman's plan would give no immediate benefit
or relief to the West Indies, while in the long run it would
be found less favourable to the consumer and the revenue
than the government measure. (Hear.) The right hon. gen-
tleman's plan would equalise the sugar duties to a rate of I
11%., while that of the government would result iu an equal
duty of 10s , thus giving to the planter and the consumer
the benefit of the lowest permanent duty. He had been a
long time bringing his mind to consent to any altera-
tion of the settlement of 1816, but after a ma-
ture consideration of all the circumstances ho had
been convinced that the house would do well to adopt
the proposal submitted by ministers, which was in no way
inconsistent with the spirit of that set.lement, though it was
a departure from it in the letter. He believed the modification
of the act of 1846, now recommended by government, would
have the effect OS giving to the West Indies a certain amount
of relief without risk in the long tun to the revenue or to

the interests of the consumer. Such a measure he believed
too was not open to the objection he had urged in the com-
mittee to the proposition of the 10s. duty for six years, viz.,
that it would prevent in any material degree the settle-
ment of wages in the West ladies on a satisfactory footing—
a point to which he attached the utmost importance. (Hear.)
As the change to the equalisation of duty would be gradual,
he did not think that the revenue would materially suffer,
for, though there might be some loss in the first instance, he
believed it would be speedily made up in a great measure by
dntesp.resktesnof.thithe
contempt. He could not so look on it. He would not
consumer
increased
nsume,
ihmTabrirstn tHreeatwedasbaywamreantyhawthtehehai
urge the interests of the consumer against the greater in-
terests of imperial policy ; but, putting aside the opinions of
the hen. member for Dorsetshire as to the unhealthiness of
sugar and its injurious effects on ladies' teeth—(a laugh), he
agreedwith the right hon. baronet the member for Staaa:ord
that the low price of sugar was a matter of no slight import-
lance in reference to the welfare of our population, as being
a main instrument in promoting temperance, and reducing
the consumption of ardent spirits. With regard to the
' policy of government in its bearing on slavery and the slave
trade, his hon. friend (Sir R. Inglis) had drawn% distinction
between slavery and the slave trade which he could not
concur in. He joined his hon. friend in his abhorrence of
that odious traffic, and admitted that this country was bound
by every means to discourage it, and put it down ; bat he
differed with his hon. friend as to the means to be employed
for that end. But as to slavery itself his hon. friend s, emed
to look upon it as a patriarchal institution sanctioned by
scripture, and which ought therefore to be kept up.
Sir R. INGLIS—What I said was, that as the state of
slavery was recognised by the Book of God, I would not be a
party to any proposition for declaring it unlawful.
Mr. LABOCCHERE would not enter into a religious
controversy, but denied that there was anything warranting
slavery in the sacred volume, nor did he believe there was
anything more disastrous or more dangerous in any commu-
nity than the maintenance of slavery—a state which he
looked upon as ruinous to the soul as well as the body.
(Hear, hear.) He believed the people of England detested
the slays trade as much as ever they dil ; and if they
thought the sugar duties had anything to do with it, they
would fight the slave trade in those duties. But the most dis-
tinguished advocates of emancipation had repudiated such a
notion. lie would not now enter into the question whether
free labour would ultimately be enabled to compete with
slave labour, though he was vet y sanguine that it would be,
for there were those free and unfettered energies in the one
case, and those dangers and disadvantages in the other,whieh
must ultimately bear down the accursed system of slavery,
even in the cultivation of sugar. But he believed that the
mural effect of the example of England on this subject had
not been unimportant—(bear, bear)—and that the deter.
minetion of this country to wash its hands of the whole eye-
tern was producing its effect. (Hear, hear.) With regard to
emigration, he thought some hon. gentlemen on the other
side had overstated the advantages which would result to the
West India colonies from the insWgration of a large num-
ber
of labourers. But, though he did not think it would he
wise to introduce a large number, he believed great benefit
might ensue if it were known that the colonies had power to
introduce labourers if they required them, as it would have
the effect of preventing the demand fir exeravagant and un-
reasonable wages. On the suliject of verancy laws
' and contracts, his honourable friend (Mr. Hawes)
had so fully entered into those points that he
need scarcely detain the house upon them. He was
for the freest immigration into •he West Indies, but stop-
ping distinctly short where immigration became anything
like the slave trade. The introduction of labour must be
free and bona fide on the part of labourers ; there must be
no force—(hear, hear) ; and with regard to vagrancy and
contracts, though he was favourable to any system of police
for the maintenance of order, he was opposed to any system
of police for upholding compulsory labour or slavery.
(Cheers.)
Mr. GOULBURN admitted that had he remained on
the West India committee he should not have supperted the
, propane ion of a 10s. protectine duty; nor did he con-
' sider that the relii f of West India distress could only be
effected by such a duty. It was the duty of the government
to propose the means for relieving an amount of distress
which he believed to be unprecedented in any country.
Ile admitted that it was an advantage to the people of this
country that they should be enabled to obtain ehi ap sugar ;
but it that cheapness was obtained by such a depression of
capital as would result in throwing the avasr estates out of
cultivation, it would be an injury, as it would had to an in-
crease of price when it could least be borne. With regard
to the amount of relief, the copimittee of 1832 eec immended
that the compensation to be given to the planters should be
commensurate with the increased coot of production conse-
quent oar the measures of parliament. He would recom-
mend the same principle now, and, as they had aevanced
the cost of reduction, he would compensate. The hon.
member for Westbury had said that the cost of producing
sugar in the West Indica was not greater than in Cuba, and
he stated that sugar was produce tin Cuba at 17s. Bd. Now,
Cuba sugar had been sold in the British market at 215.; and
if the cost of produeticht was 17s. 8d , taking freight
and insurance into account, it followed that the
Cuea grower must have sold his sugar at a low
Many reasons had teen stated why the colonists had no par-
ticular claim to relief. and amongst them this, that the act
of 1846 nad been well considered, and that it would be
wrong materially to alter it. Now, in reply to that, he must
observe that the right hon. gentleman opposite came into
office on the 6:11 of April in that year, and on the 20th pro-
posed a total change in that system of laws previously in ope-
ration, thus cutting short the experience of those laws upon
a consideration, during only 14 days, not only of the sugar
question, but all others which must necessarily have pressed
themselves upon the attention of a newly constituted govern-
ment. His hon. friend behind him stated that that measure
had been favourable to the revenue. He admitted it—but
then the gain to this country was at the cost of the colonies,
end the loss thereby incurred formed one of the elements of
the present distress. (Hear, hear.) It hail also b en argued
that protection must be injurious as tending to increase the
price of wages. He did nut assent to that argument, be-
cause it was the profit of the planter which guided the
labourer and not protection. But, supposing it were
so, it only showed that in any way the planter was
ruined; for if protection raised the price of wages, the
planter wss deterred from cultivating his property, and if
these were no protection, he was ruined by the influx of the
foreige article. lie, therefore, asked for some plan which
would remedy the present evil without placing the West
India planter in that predicament. Tne committee unani-
mously came to the conclusion that the state of the West
India colonies was one of great distress, and that relief
should be immediate. But the resolutions proposed in the
co umittee by the right hon. gentleman the President of the
B -and of Trade went further, and said that it was net only
incumbent on them to grant immediate relief, but that it
should be given in such a way as to be effectual for the actual
planters themselves.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he had only moved those re-
',elution% on the basis of the report.
Mr. °MILBURN —And, therefore, as the reasonable
ground of the plan to be out witted by the government.
Those resolutions required the relief to be imme-
diate, to be effectual, to the planters themselves, and
given to particular colonies, according as they. were dis-
tressed; and that they should be put into a situation to com-
pete with foreign colonies, which the right hon. gentleman
was of opinion they would be in when the rate of wages was
adjusted to the altered state of the markets, and a sufficient
control had over employment. Now these resolutions did
not propose to afford relict for a year or two, but until there
should be a sufficient competition in employment, and a suf-
ficient supply of labour in the market, to enable the colonists
to compete with other countries. It was clearly in the con-
templation of the right hon. gentleman to continue those
advantages to the colonies of which they were now to be de-
prived, until they could place the labour market in such a
position as would enable them to compete with the
other sugar colonies. The house would at once
perceive how far short of that proposition was the
one now before it. And what was the position
of the celonies when those resolutions were proposed ? They
were then in the enjoyment of a protecting duty of 6t.
the cwt., and they had free admission to breweries. hi ow, of
all the evils that must attend the commercial dealer that of
having to bring his produce into a falling market was the
worst, for it deranged all his calculations of industry and
profit, and yet that was the very consequence they were en-
tailing upon the grower of sugar in those colonies. The go-
vi rnment proposition was a loan of 500,000/. upon the se-
curity of the colonies—a proposition in which there was
something extremely ludicrous' seeing that the colonial
revenue was almost in a state of annihilation—cermiuly in-
sufficient in each particular colony to defray the expenses of
that colony. (Hear, him.) He quite admitted that immi-
gration, to which it was said it would be partly applied,
might be usefully carried on, but unless accompanied with
other measures of relief would form no sufficient remedy for
the evil, and although he was willing to concede that if the
government effected a reduction in the rum duties, of which
there was now considerable doubt, r dditional advantage
would thereby be conferred on the producer of auger ; yet
until there was a certainty of that measure it was hardly
possible for him to take it into his consideration. Then
there was to be a diminishing duty, obliging the colonists to
come to a falling market, so that, viewing the government
plan as it now appeared, it fell so far short of what he had
been led to expect by the resolutions of the right
honourable gentleman opposite, that he must show
his disapproval by voting against it, and by claim-
ing instead compensation for the losses which those
colonies sustained by the emancipation of the Degrees and the
subsequent abolition of apprenticeship—to refuse which
amounted, in his judgment, to a violation of public faith.
Sir R. PEEL said that he should mos. imperfectly express
his real feeling if he came to the conclusion or uttered a word
which should imply an indifference to our vast transmarine
possessions. For the difficulties of the colonies themselves,
and the embarrassments of those connected with them, he
felt the deepest sympathy, and justly should he deserve the
reproach of the hon. member for the University of Oxford
if be were disposed to prefer the material and pecuniary in-
terest involved in the question to public policy. He considered
that it would be inconsistent with the spirit by which that
great empire had been founded, and by which it could he
maintained, were we now, in the hour of its depression and
distress, to enter into a cold caleulatien whether it was for
our pecuniary interest to maintain our connexion with it.
But there were great social considerations connected with
the subject. He rejected the argument that 95 per cent. of
the population were negroes and only 5 white. lie thought
it of the greatest importance to cherish that small white
population, for we required them as a barrier against the
spread of barbarism, aed that if annihilated the cause of
civilisation would materially suffer. (lieu, hear.) With
these feelings, admitting the importance of our ultramarine
possessions, and entertaining the deepest sympathy for the
present distress, he approached the discussion of this great I
emetion. That distress was admitted on all hands, and
there existed, be believed, a sincere desire to alleviate it. With '
that view the government submitted a proposition which
was met by anther justifiable certainly, but yet

of a novel kind—he alluded to the porosition
member for Droitwich, the effect of which was tc:)r ase aal
sideration to the proposition of the government, teleireel
in fact to take it back, that it was impuemble to
end that therefore they would not liana to it. Th reeelkaa"e
of the hon. member fur I/roe...rich implied that thate digka—`
could be remedied by legislation; but of what useeree-"ak,
subjectad e? •nb
much
hnt o
astutenesstt bh
re. su tip na
dt hi et. eb oiuot:
if no remedy was suggested ) (Hear.) What, he feed weep,,
the
he
the more effectual remedies that the supporters of t ""
get
That committee had thrown a light on the tinveate
tcolo:untl
sided over by a chairmen who brought to the co ieermaar—
The
noble lord (G. Bentinck) was r. ally to propose a (Hear.)
could fulfil the expectations which would be rousedremedy; Bswa' ",*
ing to the amendment. But unless he had -am th"
offer much more eff, coral than the plan of the ee
La-,
the result would on', be to upravate the dieters:. ell(Hess
hear.) He would shortly renew the present condition of the
West India colonies, and the remedies which it eat
d Bible to apply. What could he offer to the Wo -lodise.
body by way of relief. Could he give them back the
sure of 1845, and establish the distinction 1, tween
he
produce of slave labour, and sugar the produce of ir ja,ger -
regretted that • further experiment had neeet? imaa
mode of the measure of 1813. (Hear, hear.) 41.
entirely satisfied with the argument that tee upe Z
market of Great Britain and Ireland to slave-mut - sag„
was of no advantage to the slave-holding planteresee;eh -°-ak
not satisfied that the free-labour anger which he too/Leiria--
the continent was immediately supplied by sleee
sugar, and that, in point of fact, it was moo discourageM-,
t is
the latter. Because, whatever theoretical re "oR mak--
be urged, the fact was that encouragement heel beCa-: era
Cuba and Brazil to the production of alive groan
er
lied ho then directed the counsels of her ilaim e'Ta
' should certainly have adaisad a longer trill of
the measure of 1845 But is 184 G a chance ea;
place, and he bad assented to the measure propaaa eea.
noble lord opposite, in pursuance of deelarauoie male
hint and by those acting with him, not only on grounds -4
public policy, but of piratic faith. That change peaawid
the maintenance of the distinction between slave sad fewlabour sugar, so far at least as the produce of Cuba wie
concerhed. Whatever might have been tis desire to ails
fain the act of 1843 had he had the means, be could aa.
shrink from the responsibility of the vote he lave in
rence with the proposal of government. He dies
not give
that vote merely to prevent the disturbance which might
have taken place had thorn been another change of gait,:
meat in July, 1846. The very fact that there bad am,.
change of government, the very tact that &Iterate:ma hed
been made between 1815 mod 1816 in our c,tometdd
policy, by a further application of the principles ea ee
trade, would have made the struggle to exclude sas
sugar a very protracted and doubtful one. Theo=
government might have failed ; hut what would bambini
the result ? Could any government, then to he &manned,
have given an assurance to the British powessimi. that
labour sugar would be permanently excluded ? Ihe plan of
the government at least offered • permanent sugar bill, Bed
the avoidance of an annual contest. An annual cornice an
the sugar duties, with doubtful success, though it might
have defeated the bill of 1816, would nave parented the
application of capital in the colonies, would have pr vented
the settlement of the question, and have destroyed comma
dal confidence. This consideration, es well as hi.
ness to disturb the government, had induced him to meat
to attempt this mode of settlement. Could he now
revoke that, and re-establish the disuna ion between:reeled
slave labour ? The hon. menthe for the L:aiversity of On.
ford thought this could be done; but he was out of very
few who held that opinion. The crown had acted on the
measure:of the noble lord, and had admitted the produce of
Cuba on the same footing as that of Vela:m.la and our
other colonies. This compelled him to exeluae from the
West Indians the hope that the distineti as establotted by
the act of 1845 would be revived. lie had loeked through
all the suggestions of the West Indians themselves; he had
attempted also to consider evi ry measure, which, not being
suggested by them, appeared I,kely to give them relief.
One was the reduction of calocial exaeneiture. Tire et.
dense before the committee had left an imoreaion oa bis
mind that the colonial expenditure admitted of eedeutoa
Looking at the enormous ezeenditures of C-olon, of Magri.
ties, and of Jamaica, he was prepared to hod out ti the
colonists this prospect of relief ; that tier,. be, •
there ought to be, the most determaied attempt to Mete
this expenditure within the narrowest lini•ts cempatible with
the welfare of the colonic a themselves. It was nea• important
not only for the purposes of that defence, but farther purposes
of an enlightenti internal policy, that toe eery
best men !oat could be found should be plod
in the administration of colonial affairs. (near, hear.) It
would be a miserable economy, fur the sake of saving some
2,0001. a year, to deprive the country of the services of such
men, in the administration of our colonial and internal
empire, as Lord Dalhousie, Lard Harris, and Lord Elgin;
he therefore thought it might be better for the govern- s,
ment of this country to take upon itself th., payment of a
salary which was perhaps greater t tan the col mists them. 11
serves considered neces.ary, ar.d which was fixed more with
regard to imperial consider lions than to those or the mere
colony, On other grounds it was highly desirable that the
governor should be independ,nt ct the calonists—that he
might be enabled to favour them without the imputation of
seeking a reward for his liberality, and to do justice, and
perhaps even offend them, without incurring the risk of
having his eatery reduced. (Hear.) This would be secured by
the country taking upon itself the paynnnt of the salaries of
the governors. But with respect to secretarit s with4,oool.s
year, he would go the txtr, me length of making a reduction
in such salaries consistent with a proper regard for the circum-
stance a of the colooista. Whatever reductiva could be made,
consistent with the distance and support of the local interests
of the colonies themselves, ought to be made; any benefit
which could be afforded by such retrenchm, nt was due to
them. With respect to the police laws for preventing va-
grancy and disorder, all would agree that whatever could be
done consistent with justice ano real freedom ought to been
Acted, and at the same time abuse of th it freedom ought to
be presented. To sat. bow it c uld be done was exceed-
ingly difficult for those who had not local inhalation • bet
he apprehended they were ready to concur with the co:Oakes
in administering whatever relief could be given under that
head. Looking at the erievanees alleged by the colonists
and their demands for re lint, he found by &petition resented
from the planters, merchants, and others of the districtof s
Hanover, in Jamaica, so recently as September, 1847, that •
they d. minded the iemayal of the protection which their
fellow-subjects in Great Britain retained. First, they said
the Briti-h distiller, in addation to the advantage he enjoys
over the West Indians, owing to their distance from the
market, enjoys a protection against their rum of 9d.
a gallon. Amongst the measures contemplated by
government was the reduction of that differential
duty from 9d, to 4d. a gallon ; and be could hold out
to the colonists no hope of a greater reduction. He appre-
hended the government would have some serious difficulties
to encounter in carrying that reduction ; but there appeared
every disposition on toeir part to give the full meamte of
relief. (Hear.) The next ground on which the colonists
alleged their fellow subjects retained a protection which was
denied to them, was this:—" The British shipowner is pro-
tected by the navigation laws ; and this compels your meom-
ri.ilists to pay a freight nearly double the amount they would
have to pay if they were permitted to ship in other vessels."
That appeared to him a very reasonable complaint; but it
was rather irritating, when the complaint was admitted
to be just, and a remedy was attempted to be applied.
to be told immediately, " The removal of the navi-
gation laws will be of no benefit whatever to es;
the producers in Cuba and Brazil will derive a greater ad- •
vantage than we shall from the repeal of the navigation laws."
(Hear, hear.) That discouraged him from entertaining any
too sanguine anticipations as to the relief to be afforded.
It was difficult to take any general view of the position of
the West India colonies, and the remedies which ought to
be applied because one great element remained in un-
certainty, the future employment ut the squadron on the
African coast. On that he gave no opinion ; he was much in-
clined to doubt whether the sudden withdrawal of that squa-
dron might not increase the evils of the slave trade. But,
supposing that any material easing could be effected by its
withdrawal, be greatly doubted whether this country would
not consent to forego the pecuniary advantage, and apply at
least a considerable portion of the saving to other means
more effectual for the purpose. But any view of the state of
the West Indies must be imperfect and uncertain while un-
certainty prevailed aa to what would be done with respect to
that rquadron. There were only two other suggestions of
any considerable importance. One was, that there should
be a great increase of immigration and Lathe supply of labour;
the other, that direct assistance should be given by means of
protective duties. As to immigration, the government admitted
the principle that this country should provide the means im-
mediately, by way of loan, for increasing the supply of
labour ; and it was proposed that 500,0001. should be ad-
vanced for that purpose. He did not attach the importance
which come gentlemen attached to this inertia, d supply or
',boor ; he could not go no far as the hon. under.seeretuf
for the colonies, and say that if he had 500,0001. to invest,
he did not know how lie could apply it better. (" Hear,"
and laughter.) The hon. member for Somemetsbire (Mr.
Miles) had stated that the population of the West ladies
was about one million, and that they only produced 140,000
hogsheads of sugar pet annum,-1 conclusive proof that them
was labour enough in the colonies ; tke only question was,
how to make that labour available. It was laid the negroes
might be stimulated by the importation of fresh labovreta
which would stir them up to emulation, end operate as a
moral check on their idleness, and make them willing to
work themselves. But the utmost care would be required
in applying that check and the importation of some
tens of thousands of negroee from the west of AMa
.
would be but a clumsy expedient. Suppose it
fectual, what would be the result ? There would
be a great addition to the number of labourers, with an in*
sufficiency of employment; and the thousands of unfor-
tunate persons who were separated from their connexions,
and conveyed across the ocean, would probably not be em-
ployed. If immigration were encouraged at all, it only
ought to be as the speculation of individuals. (Hear, hem.)
And if the government undertook that which individual
speculation only could supply, the whole would end iII
smoke. (Hear, hear.) lie should be disposed to trust W
the enterprise of those individuals whore estates needed an
increase of names, the government taking ever', pr-
caution caution against abuse on the coast of Africa,h
subsequent abase in the West Indies. (Hear, esr)
But whatever was done, he hoped this errantry would not
be justly subjected to the imputation of having, on anyeperes
tence, organised a new species of slavery. (Hear,
Though half a million was to be granted by the govemniept_
he hoped they would not insist on necessarily applying
half million to purposes of immigration ; but shoa
l they oe
satisfied that there were some other modes by which tempo-.
miry relief might be given to the West Indies more effectual
than this of immigration, they would willingly con-
sent to extend the grant to such other purposes.
If her Modesty's government admitted the principle rA
parity parliamentary relief, he did hope they would 90Mitti

211 h

what was the most effectu
that in some wee the ad
were not sufficien appre •
of the greatest p tly
ropneto•
Walden, stated that the r
colony was repaid ia • ye •
did they not do it? The
poveristied. But why d.
prosperity ? The only r 0i
relied too greatly on the
ciple of protecuon. 1. e
three estates, the cost ot
which would pay at the a
country we were makir •
four or five per cent.
told them the other
Why, there
ed was an
he. eat....
was
or 90
, and tI o.
80 Or 90pl hhds. to 100 1
300, 600, and at last, in 1.
be doe—if such enon
suck an small expense— ,
getout of L mbardy, e
•
dent upon the previ
such result,
produce
expect as tne n-. •
the planters to make or •
p
fi
said,,a.,.la Howardi
gkemoti
flnegsdir etovws‘m• t nele' hdo,u 'dyrwinnh iftptohe hr
orsb
-
fore e
e..r.)
ga
ron
o
e
at
dmio
resolutions
cause
meet
od,,ltto,gvhoci.l:
(eeeti.
usyghis
rt
nr,
rot,
eect.
tchn,
hbom7lttti
Coe.
to.
fo aught he knew, mot
ed
lse?
.)
sent
ive
t
In
upon toe colony—hut h
spoke of the import
large common open ; n
ee
this prove most forcibly
Lion ? (Hear, hear.)
without improvements
depend upon it, was ti.
mete% meat. Let such e
would lay the toundati .n
Indies. (Cheering.)
nfive duty of 10s. for th
what the amendment i
from his right bon I
sure he trusted no • •
tiosate intercourse tin
differed from Will was ;a
vote for these re slut:
would be prepared to t
be, in his opilion, a prof
was a measure he w
(Cheeting.) He was
on these grounds:—that
tion that protection
body. Now, why di,
an amendment mean'
self. Re was sell ig t
subject, and the nl
flitter wan more prot et
his resolution before tie
there a singlet West I a
the resolution as it
distressed tor want of
shiCieg protection tc th
filauritiue, where there
possessions wire to ha
bad not the same call:
quence ? It was ad.uit
the
requiri.d. But the
had this advantage
therefore, would Beo •
tition with the W
others most likily to
let them einsider
n
ply of labour the %1 est
the protection for a
most. Well, what wo
WOlllll the people it
exertion. ? They wo
taking off the duty at
would not Cuba say
Years we shall be
British c demists; let
our power to e .te•
Well, new, let them
West Indies during th
the fact, of the cat, u
hind him (Mr. Bat kly
his evidence before the
ha said, " we are en.;
wages by promoting
think a differential uu
favour ot the ne, ro.'
whom he (Sir 1..
negro, oho was end
upon his master
the (
hon. member in
get his own way, . ud
crewed price of tie p
went on to say, lust
about per cwt.
lie " uecided the s
raised the price of •
to the \Vest Indies.'
defeating his own obj
No, it was his de tr
West Indian they m
which would give h.
Under that 'thou]
moved even canes
medy could be pro
the West Indies hi
their case, and re. •
compete ailment.il y
there was a 63s du•
cwt. of firtign u.
with sugar as it
scarcely a siney g
tion in this cean.
the cause of
replied that they
The fact was, th it
ply with the der ..n
Re did nor at .11
fairly with the t
blind, indeed, t, t,
that this system of
tamed. (Hear. lie
condition et Cu' t.
de Walden, wit
ropect,d many o t
We wire told m IC
they carry cutlers
hounds at their n
va
weapons I spol
the slave states of
ume fear and .as
was the ream.,
fiercely and le
e
go
h
ck
lition was h
lionowl
4ow'h
security
tlltwt
taro
biva s
netted
hozonmllrnnmieie incessantly
todmhi 18trocaserseeilibhiidrartattt:aaplutaretwutlanptevireittlaeelmihdc°anduhhivamann'adeope't‘i'cln:tP.t.,....:
cause
e
ar
the
he
there ha .
e
o
so long fasten .
its proprielers ad
selves, and male
(Rear, hear.)
mighty efforts it
magnificent di to
holder might .or
but at no mot'
condition of its
hope that Vi.
would be wise
late, the ine
system. (y
the meager,
friend w-Alle.
would vete t..,r
this purpose.
all over the -so
late which s-. 0
their posit, it
convulsions in
events in •se
have peed..
have been
inc as Pt •si
still going 0,,
alma were
(Rear, beai
hear.) Th':e
vernmenta of
(Hear, he,
warning, fee,
eipitate th, e
over the v o
this wool.,
Teranients
was am,, 4
pathy uitli
In human t.l.
shores to I.r
time, might
ing on a s .p
a sudden n
hope that th
the hitherto
deotion to
were idea
events,
was

T--