The Express.
London, England, 1847-01-20 00:00:00

',awe of tke various measures he intemled to j
apply to Ireland. If the noble lord, the member
for Lynn, had any thing more satisfactory, he
could them forward, and the house would give them,
he was sure, that attention whieh they deserved. lie be•
tiered that much in,ury had been done by the language
which had ben u•ei with regard to England in Ireland; but
be hoped t,at a bctti r s,.irit would prevail, rind ho
thought he stw the beginning of it in a meeting
of the Irish landlords which had been held in
Inland• He trusted the house would come to
tunside radian of there mesaurel in a good
spirit, and however great the present calamity might be,
homer horrible the imagination might paint them, he
hoped that for Ireland would he preserved future years of
prosperity, and that in her union with England she would
present a apes Lode of a country where freedom and civilisa-
tion mad admirable pruners& (Loud cheers.)
Mr. DISRAELI said that it was not likely to lead to
a satisfactory condition of Ireland while they had prolonged
misconceptions with the powers of the continent. The
hon. gentleman then entered into a minute examination
of the treaties of Utrecht and Vienna, of which he contended
there had been no such violation as was proclaimed to the
nation by the noble lord, the Secretary for Foreign affairs.
The treaty of Vienna contained 17 other treaties, some of
whicheettled the present domestic government of Germany,
sod these contained stipulations and promises that had never
been acted on or performed. As well then might the noble lord
say that the violation of one of these seventeen treaties was
equally a violation of the treaty of Vienna, as the recent pre-
mediugs wilt respect to Cracow. It was not likely that the
gentlemen who drew up that treaty could poosibh• have made
a settlement haying the effect which was now authoritatively
announced in hoe Majesty's speech; but which he feared
the noble lord had made out of deference to public
clamour. The noble Mid, by so doing, had left the safe
path of public law, one of' the principles of which
was, that the superior instrument cannot merge in
the inferior, and from that principle it was most
dangerous to deviate. He would not enter at all into
the political consideration connected with these ques-
tions, but merely say that it was of the greatest import-
ance, whatever might be their opinions about France
and Poland, that their conduct shoull not be founded
nor their sentiments expressed upon perverted views of trea-
ties, and that they should distiuctly comprehend what was
the nature and extent of their reciprocal engaegments. It
era: of the greatest importance that the great settlement of
Vienna should be held sacred—but if the position of the
noble lord be correct, that treaty was not only worthless,
but had always been so. In considering the question he
hoped they would take for their guide the acknowledged
prim-mt. s of public law, and it thav did, Vary must doubt
that any violation of tne treaty of Vienna had:occurred. It
was of great importance at the present moment that we
should be upon the best terms not only with France, but
with our allies generally. He sometimes heard it said that
peace could only ho nitititained by a cordiai understanding
between England and France, oaly a secret understanding
between Ebgland and Russia. In his opinion, England
held the balance in her own handl, and that, conscious of
hes own position and influence, she might, by giving with
discretion, not only enjoy the blessings of pepee, but hand
them down, better secured than by partial alliances with
other powers, to future generations•
• - -• •

•
Col. COOLLY protested against the speech of the hen.
member fur Bath as insulting to the landlords of Ireland.
All the efforts of Irish landlerds were treated by him as the
cause of the present distrevs. He entreated the noble lord
at the head of the government not to be influenced by such
language, but to relax the principles of political economy
for the relief of destitution.

--- -
Sir It PEEL said he was not about to interrupt that
unanimity with which it appeared probable the address
would be carried, nor to protract the discussion which had
been entered into. There was scarcely one of the topics
introduced in the speech from the throne which will
not be debated with greater advantage when the pro-
mised inform dims had been hid on the table of the
house. The noble lord had stated that the whole
of the correspondence with respect to the marriage
betw en a son of the King, of the French and the Infanta of
Spain shouli be pr and he (Sir R. Pee) trusted that
it would include all the documents connected with the part
taken by the late government. He should for the present
abstain from any reference to the subject beyond confirming
the statement of the noble lord, that during the period when
the late government was in power, no attempt was made to
advance the pretensions of a prince of the house of Coburg
to the hand of the Queen of Spain. For his own part he
deprecated any such ctnneetion—(hear, heat)—and he
thought that the interests of England could not be advanced
by it. The probable effect of such an alliance would be to in-
troduce us more into the domestic concerns of Spun, and he
did not be.ievo that the interest either of this country
or, of Spain would be advanced by such means. cheat,
hear.) Ills beli f was that it was for the interest of Europe
that Spain should be really an independent country
—(cheers)—that she should attain the high name which she
once enjoyed, by the dignified assertion of her own rights—
and that she should perform her own functions, and conduct
her own administration, without tolerating the right of in-
terference on the part of any other power. (Hear, hear.)
He hoped to see the day when Spain would place herself in
the position of a perfectly independent country ; and when
enjoying all the rights and privileges of constitutional liberty,
she would attain a position somewhat analogous to that which
ahejoccupied at a former period. (Hear.) Speaking of the late
government, he could with truth assert that not only had
there been no direct official act of that government, as he
was thoroughly convinced, but no indirect means had been
resorted to by any authority for the purpose of advancing
the supposed interests of the princes of the house of
Coburg. He should say little with respect to the extinc-
tion of the independence of Cracow; because, with
respect also to that transaction, they would hereafter be in
pomession of more ample information. But he could not
allude to the subject without expressing his deep regret that
the extnetion of that independence had taken place. (Hear,
hear. t There might be truth in the statements and Meter-
vations if thej hon. gentleman who had preceded him
(Mr. Disraeli) but still he thought a public assurance had
been given to Europe at the period when the settle-
ment of its affairs took place; and when that
settleutent was confirmed by the treaty of Vienna—a public
assurance which should have been considered no binding
(as was understood) as a formal engagement could be—that
the last remnant of Polish independence should les main-
tained,!and that Cracow should not be destined to the fate
which had overtaken it. He thought, therefore, that there
had been a virtual departure from the engagement entered
into ; and he considered the act a most impolitic
one. That the three great powers were not able to protect
themselves from the danger with which they were threat-
ened by Cracow in env other way appeared to him a very
futile notion—(hear, hear)—and he believed that true police
would have led them to maintain Cracow in its rights
and privileges. (Hear, hear, hear.) Ile thought that
the three powers might have taken effectual security
against ao.y future danger from machinations conducted
at Cracow ; but if, after the late deplorable events, they
had restored Cracow to the possession of every right and
privilege which it obtained under the treaty, and if there
had been another violation, then, after a frank explanation
with France, Great Britain, Sweden, and all the other
powers who were partiss to the treaty, nubile feeling
would have gone with those powers in making some new
arrangement. It appeared to him that there was no sufficient
justification, on aecount of any eventual danger to the three
powers, Cu the act which had been recently committed.
That Austria should have consented to disregard the engage-
ments of the treaty, appeared to him inconsistent with good
policy, and calculated to shake the confidence of Europe in
the future maintenance of its provisions. He regretted that no
allusion had been made to the state of the revenue. He had

heard, with satisfaction, that it was the intention of the (
government to call attention to the sanitory condition
of the country. With the exception of Ireland he could
conceive no subject of deeper importance, none more closely
connected with the health, happiness, and permanent wel-
fare of the masses of the population. He hoped the
measure would be an extensive one, and that it
would enable the municipal authorities of small towns,
as well as those of larger ones, to make those improve-
ments, the want of which had been so prejudicial to
the health of the people. (Hear, hear.) With respect
to Ireland, and fully appreciating all the difficulties
which encompassed thu government in dealing with that
subject, he was disposed to make every allowance for the
position of those who had to meet the present calamity.
Hear, hear, hear.) He well knew in what em•
larrassment they might be placed on the one
hand by the danger of taking superfluous precautions and
-disturbing the ordinary operations of trade ; and on the
other, by the danger of not making the requisite provision
to prevent famine, and the disease which it occasioned. Not ,
only, therefore, on account of the recent period at which the ,
hon. gentlemen opposite had been called upon to administer
public affairs, but on account also of the immense difficulties
with which any government, whatever the length ofite tenure
of office, must have to contend, was he disposed to make
every allowance for the existing administration. They were
now made wise by the event, and it was easy for them, seeing
the extent of the evil which was actually present, to suggest
tome better mode of combatting the difficulty than that
which bad been resorted to. (Hear, hear) But they ought
to place themselves in the position occupied by the government
in the month of September last, and to consider whether or
not, on ler the circumstances, and with the difficulties which
he had stated, they would have been likely to adopt a better
course. He del not blame government for not calling par-
liament tog: ther in the autumn. Hebulieved nothing effectual
river would or could be done in Ireland without the active,
earnest, unremitting co-operation of the landlords of
that country. (Hear, hear, hear.) As events had turned
itut, he regretted that the measures now propounded
had not been brow/tat forward at an earlier period ; but it
would have been most unwise to create alarm by what pos-
sibly would have been: too early interf rence. The
noble lord justly said, that no compact was entere I
into • but he was not surprised that he had been unwilling,
without a case of proved necessity, to disturb the arrange-
ment originally made. With respect to the labour Rate in
Ireland, he felt that the sooner the right hon. gentleman
Mr. Labouchere) restored the ten thousand paid clerks and
engineers to their former occupations, the better would it be
for the country. The first thing to which they ought to
•liruct their attention was their restoring the natural rela-
tions between the employer and the employed. Four hun-
'ired and seventy thousand persona were employed on the
public works, at the cost of 148,0001. a week. He hoped that
the measures of the noble lord would restore those
employed on these public works; first of all, to the
cultivation of the soil, in order that they might have the
Prospect of a future harvest; and, next, to its permanent
improvement. lie hoped, too, that the landed proprietors
sad the occupying tenants of Ireland, would feel that it
wan of the utmost importance to wrist the government in
re-absorbing the labour from the public works, and apply-
ing it to the rultivation of the soil. The noble lord pro-
Postal tae buzpvtuuut os the existing duties use corn, and set

the navigation lows, and the admheina of ilialliaoll ie the
breweries and distilleries—to ease et which meosuses
he (Sir Robert Peel) gave his medial assent, (Hear).
though he believed the advantage to be derived from them
would have been greater had they been adopted at an earlier
period. (Cheers.) Though the eisesesstances were dif-
ferent now to what they were in November, he felt
based to give a cordial assent to every measure calculated in
any degree to increase the supply of food to this country,
and to direct to our ports some portion of that which, In
tconsequence of the scarcity of grain, they had been
told existed in France, Germany, and Belgium, and the
extraordinary means those countries had adopted to obtain
it now want them. He thought also that the temporary sus-
pension of the navigation laws might have the effect
of bringing in corn from Egypt and the Mediter-
ranean. But this was a subject into the considera-
tion of which feeling entered as well as reason ;
and seeing that a great m►ny deaths—he would not say hun-
dreds, as some had asserted—had taken place in those coun-
tries on account of the want of sufficient food ; and seeing an
admission in respect to Ireland, that though outrages had
undoubtedly taken place in great numbers, yet that the se-
vere privation and destitution to which the people had been
reduced had been sustained with great and exemplary pa-
tience. Looking, too, at the position of Scotland,
and knowing that in the Western Islands there
existed the greatest and most pressing want, though
it wan scarcely brought under our cognizance even by
a murmur from the suffering people---(hear)—he for one could
not object (the price of corn barring reached the point at
which it now stood) to any temporary measure which those
who were responsible for rescuing the country- from the tem-
porary starvation which threatened it might think it neces-
sary to propose for meeting the evil. (Cheers.) To the
three measures he had alluded to, therefore, he should
give a most cordial assent, in the hope that they
would ameliorate the condition of the people. With
retard to measures of a permanent nature for improv-
ing the condition of Ireland, he would not then go into
them, nor by premature discussion prejudice the course of
the noble lord, or by provoking the expression of opinion
before hand, prejudice the measures he might have to pro-
pose. As to emigration, though a well considered scheme,
which should select for emigrants tans who were capable of
labouring and maintaining themselves in the colony to
which they might go, would, if gradually and steadily
adopted, be meet useful ; he did not think any
such measure would in the present state of dis-
tress have any other effect than to increase the diffi-
culty. He was willing to consent that this portion of the
empire should bear its fair proportion in the emergency of
the pressure upon the other, but it must be evident that any
' grant of money fur that purpose would, in effect, be no other
than so much added to the taxation of the people
here ; though he was willing, in such an emer-
gency, so to apportion the burden. yet he could
not forget that nothing than ill-judged and misap-
plied humanity on the part of this country. (Hear, hear,
Ireland should be taught to snake exertions herself, and to
know that a constant dependence on this country was not
only unjust to us, but tended not to the permanent benefit of
herself, and that she should not seek to transfer to us a
burden which properly belonged to her. He assured the
noble lord that he should approach these questions free
from all party feeling and all party considerations.
Ireland could not suffer without England suffering
in an equal degree. The legislature had the deepest
interest in promoting the welfare, and conducing to the
prosperity of Ireland; and though they might not be
able to produce any immediate effects from their legislation,
still, by securing the rights of property and of labour, he, for
one, should ever feel grateful if they should be enabled to
lay the foundation of a permanent system, which should
conduce to tke comfort and welfare of the people. (Cheers.)
Viscount PALMERSTON—Though, se the papers on the
subject were not on the table, he was aware this was not
the proper opportunity to enter into any discussion of the
conduct of the government in reference to their foreign
policy, he could not submit in silence to the interpetation of
the treaty of Vienna which had been given by the hon.
member fur Shrewsbury, because if that interpretation was
just, that treaty was, in fact, no treaty at all. The
honourable gentleman had so mixed up stipulations and
details that it was difficult to sty what part of the
treaty he considered binding. The parties to the treaty
entered into no guarantee to take active measures, as the
lion. gentleman asserted, they were merely authorised to
do so. The hon. member was mistaken as to the bearing of
the treaty of Vienna, as regarded Cracow. He seemed to
consider that the stipulation to make Cracow a free state
was confined to the three powers immediately interested ;
but the 6rh,itle,Bthand St hartic)es of the treaty,which were
general, also related to the indspendeace of Cracow, and were
as much articles of the general treaty as any other. But the
hon. member contended that, if so, the free navigation of the
rivers, and other minor details, as to diplomatic pre-
cedents, &c., were, in the lISMO way, parts of the
treaty, and so they were. The hon. member for
Bath stated that the renunciation respecting the royal
marriage in the treaty of Utrecht was rot retained in
subsequent treaties. But the ground taken by her Majesty's
government was not that there was anything in the treaty
of Utrecht which would prejudice a marriage between the
two helm a of Spain and Orleans, but that it went to pre-
, vent the descendants of the Orleans family from being the
summers to the crown of Spain.
The address was then apreed to, and_ a committee ap
pointed to draw it up.
The house adjourned at a quarter past one.

MIDDLESEX ELECTION.—At a meeting of
I.IBERAL ELECTORS at thy covey of MickLege:, held at
the British Coffee-home, Cockspor.strect, Jan. 19, 1847,
SAMUEL CHARLES WHITBREAD, Eeq., in the Chair,
RriplikilliODNlllMl nrimerouely and respectably signed by electors
of the county of Middlesex, haring been presented to Lord Robert
Grosvenor, and ho having signified his aceeptanir thereof, and basing
agreed to become a candidate for the representatum in parliament of
the county of Middlesex, vacant by the lamented death of George
rtyng, FN.
Resolved unanimously :
That Lord Hubert Grosvenor is i
the electors of Middlesex, and that
to secure his return.
That the following gentlemen
election
Sir Er !ward North Buxton, Bart. John Drcwett, Esq.
J. G. Ilamraark, Esq. 11. J. Prescott, Esq.
George Offer, Eeq. Gilbert Pommy, E.
Peter Martineau, Esq. Thomas Piaui, Esq.
William Lawrence, Eq. Henry Nibbs Brown, Esq.
llenry Hull, Esq. John Ashton later, Esq.
William Hull, Esq. Henry Weymouth, Esq.
Robert Watson, Esq. Samuel Amory, Req.
Henry Hammond, req. Robert Amory, Esq.
stephen Bird, Esq. James Cunliffe, Esq.
Sir William Chattertom Bart. P. A. Taylor, Esq.
William Nicholson, Esq. T. C. watson, EN!.
Ito. Frederick Byng John Morley, Esq.
William leaf, Esq. Thomas Itidpray, Esq.
Josh. Phelps, EN. David Wins. Wire, Lop
John Baeshaw, Lop David Caldwell. Ear).
Martin Thackery, kil. Chin lea Iti.hardison, Req.
C. S. Butler, Req. Sir Walter Stirling, Bart.
Thomas Gibson, Esq. Ceorge Wilson, Eq.
John Simpson, beq. W. IL Hodges, Req.
John Ingram Travers, Esq. Robert J. Bagthaw, Esq.
Sir Edward Colebrooke, Bart. Charles Finch, EMI.
sir George Larpent, Bart. Frederick Ashly, Esq.
J. G. Itamsden, k sq. Apoiley Pellatt, Esq.
J. B. Rowe, Esq. Franco Sherboni, Esq.
James Montgomery, Esq. Lionel de Rothschild, Eaq.
It. J. Arrnetrong, Esq. James Hutchinson, Esq.
Jame. Pattiman, Eeq., M.P. John M. Parsons, Erq.
!Matthew Doter, Esq., M.P. Henry Perkins, EN.
Thomas Fowler, Esq. Tomas 11. Riches, Esq.
That Samuel Charles Whitbread, bag., he chairman of the central
committee.
That the Hon. Edward Bouverie, M.P.; Abraham Wilday Roberts,
Esq.; Sir Willem Cloy, Bart.; James Andertan, Esq.; Sir Edward
Codringion, Hart.; and Robert Banbury, Eaq., he deputy.chau,
men of the central committee.
That the central committee sit daily at the British Coffee-house,
Cockspur-street. S. C. WHITBREAD, Chairman.

recommended by this meeting to
immediate arrangement. be made

be a committee to conduct the

74 hit Opprzoo.

MAILS.

---•
Thy overland mails for Gibraltar, Malta, Greece. the lonian Wanda,
Egypt, Aden, Ceylon, India, llong.liong, and China, via Southampton,
will be made up on the evening of the 20th January.
The overland chased mails, yin Marseilles, to the Nlediterrarman,
Egypt, Aden, Cevion, India, Hong Kong, Sm., will he made up on the
evening of the 2.{tb January.
The mails for Vigo, Oporto, Lisbon. Madeira, Cadiz, and Gibraltar,
will be mode up on the morning of the 27th January.
The midis for New South Wales. Von Diemen's Land, and New
Zealand will be made up on the evening of the 31,1 January.
The West India inails, including those for Mexico, Honduras, and
:be Havannah, will be made up on the morning of the 2nd February.
The mails for British North America, Bermuda, and the United
States, will be made up on the evening of the 3rd February.
The mail, for the Brazils, the River Plate, Monte Fides, Pernam-
buco, Bahia, Ma Mira, and Buenos Ayres, will be dispatched on the
evening of the Ith February.