The Express.
London, England, 1847-04-20 00:00:00

vernment exhibitions should be made only at s'hoo's eit
used the version of the scriptures which was authei Mei by
the church of England. Next, that the Wesleyane tlr shah
be permitted to use their own catechisms, and the: *3 in-
structors in Wesleyan Methodist schools should be sVes-
leyans. Now, he wished to ask whether such a compromise
had been made ? He wished also to nit whether the Romeo
Catholics were to be excluded from the grant, and whether
the committee of council had in contemplation • propositiorr
affording them the same advantages u the Wesleyan', and if
so, when it was likely that such • proposition would be
made ? He also wished to ask whether the noble lord would
have any objection to lay on the table copies of all correspond-
ence which took place—if any did—between the government
and the Wesleyan*?
Lord 1. RUSSELL: Sir, I have first to state that the
communication with the Wesleyan bed y was, as far as I
know, not begun by any person authorised on the part of tho
government; but • noble friend of mine—whose name, al-
though I have no authority to mention it, I think I may
fairly state to the house, Lord Ashley—having understood
from some of the Wesleyan body that they were about toentes
into a resolution describing the character of the minutes on
education in a way which he thought was in truth not
applicable to them, told that body that they had
better wait until he bad communicated with Lord
Lansdowne on the subject through the secretary of the com-
mittee of council, in order to ascertain whether they had
put • correct construction upon the minutes or not. The
secretary accordingly came to Lord Lansdowne and myself,
and asked for our direction on the subject : we said we had
no hesitation in answering any question which the Wesleyan
body chose to put on the subject, and I don't know that there
is aay blame attaching to us for giving such an answer.
(Hear, hear.) One of the questions—and it has not been
mentioned by my honorable hived—was, whether permute
who held ecclesiastical functions would be eligible to the •
office of pupil teachers ? and the answer we gave wan that
persons holding ecclesiastical functions would not be eligible.
(Hear, bear.) Another question woo, whether the autho-
rised version of the scriptures would be used in the schools ?
we informed them that there was a resolution of the corn-
mimes of council on the 3rd of December, 1839, in which,
referring to a previous resolution, they said that the cams M
which they would give assistance to schools would be wile
reference to thole Nebula in which cenagetant pawkier
would be nude teethe instruction old aises. in sebsehre the
daily reading of a :portion of the eeripteno illtnimg pert et
that instruction. The house is aware that Maw wotre
authorised the committee to give aid to the National and the
British and Foreign School Society, and in both of these the
authorised veteran et the scriptures is used; and in using .
these words, " the daily reeding at a porton of the scrip,
tures," it was intended that the authorised version should be
used. I perfectly remember that in 1839 there was teethe'
plan which was once proposed by the committee of council
by which it was iatended that Roman Catholic scholars should
be allowed to use the Donny Tendon of the bible, and the corn-
mittee inserted it expressly that the public might know what
their intention was. (Hear.) Tbo next question was, whe-
ther the inspectors of Wesleyan schools might be appointed
not from the Wesleyan body, but with the concurrence of
the Wesley= body. The Wesleyan' stated that they had
hitherto received their sentence through the British ant
Foreigh School Society—that it would be far more agreeable
to their feelings, and the conatitutiun of their society, if the
committee of education of the Wesleyan body was a mug-
sited authority, and that this committee of education of tits
Wesleyan body should have the same power of express-
ing their opinion, and of having their concurrence
asked before inspectors were appointed to their schoolte
which the British and Foreign school society now enjoy. To
that proposition we said we should not object, and that we
should be ready to lay before them the name of
i the person intended toinspect their schools, and he
should, be appointed with their concurrence. With
regard to the exclusion of Roman Catholics, as
Ie stated, the rule laid down in 1839 has, I believe,
been followed ever since. I do not know that there have been
any grants to Roman Catholic schools exclusively as such.
here may have been emus to schools where the authorised
version of the scriptures is used, and Roman Catholics may
have attended them ; but not others int. We have made no
alteration, sir, in that respect. When MCI are brought be-
fore us, and the Roman Catholic bishops shall have expressed
their views on the subject, that wiil be the time when we
shall consider in what manner we can give the advantage of
any of the public grants to the Roman Catholics. (H-or.)
I think there are considerable difficulties in the way, many
of these schools being conducted by persons belonging to
holy or monastic orders. In other cases, if the Roman
Catholic version alone is used, and Protestant children
attend, it may be used as a means of proselytism. Other
difficulties present themselves; but I trust when
the subject is considered we shall be able to propose to this
house grants to Roman Catholics as well as to Protestants;
but with respect to the grant of the prevent year, we do not
propose that any part of the 100,0001. which we intend to
ask for shall be applied to those schools. If we seeable to
frame • minute we shall either propose an additionatgrant
with reference to the Roman Catholics, or reserve the sue-
ject for another year. (Hear, hest.)
GOVERNMENT PLAN OF EDUCATION.

•
Lord J. RUSSELL, in proceeding to the order of the day,
said—Sir, I will now prop.r to this house to road the order
or the day, with the view of its resolving itself into a com-
mittee upon the subject of the vote for education ; and the
how* I am sure, will not be surprised that I shall oak for
.
their indulgenes without any undue trespass upon their
attention, while I endeavour to clear this 'abject of some
parlof themeggeration and misrepresentation whisk km been
' made with reference to it—(loud erresof " hear")—isitd, sir, I
' have so much coallisses in the jail/masa sad Limas of this
house, that I Sol ma they will sot be dio am disposed to
give an impartial hawks to this salgost am aossamt of the
attempts that have Wm mods to *womb the alsalimatioa
and votes of this boom by rosobalk• span ea dostrairo--
by infrommting samithem of this lame is attend sossitiags to
mower hr their madam—seat reaking them to whoeosins%
this pmpooltion, whatever may-be the merits of as case
brought forward. That, sir, has boss doom by am= who
ray thee thsy come to protest naiades lompmasibis power-
it has boss done by those who ilidassour to show that the
body which is to have the momapasont of this groat
is witoostitutionel—(hear, bear;) tai that if grants made
by the Haase of COINIZNeII on pitied in the beads of mink-
toted the mown ramirabio at the piommiso of dim oreersio,
mod who cannot hold officio aay looser than they have the
support of this bone, that slack a mode of devoting money
to the edacation of the
mote is an unconstitutional mode bf
proceeding. (Hear, hoar. Why, sir, talk of responsibility,
how much more matt we risommaki hildiag this power
on such a tenure, them atop, whims ssisi together from
various parted the omatry, whe ere set responsible to any
one, and who hawaid the sambas of di home that they
will' raise such ea oppodtion at a hare election that they
shall no longer have the homer of a seat in this house if
they decide according to their impartial judgment! I trust
sir entirely to the Judgment awl losportiality of this house,
that they will not allow that than attempts at exaggeration
and misrepresentation shell bids from them the real facts of
the case. (Hear, hear.) It is irdi hisown that the educa-
tion of the people—the workag dross especially—forms no
part of the duty either of the greeinanent, nor, nationally
speaking, of the =sob of this toiletry. The whole task of
education has bens left, of kits years, to voluntary efforts.
In 1784 Hr. Roth., nog raised a salianptista kw stab/shin
Sunday schools, sad these wan the ones ef thllnag a
great amount of ksowlei matt }cog= imam of
the community. Is die begin of his century whoa
Mr. Lancaster maw to this country, it was entirely the
efforts of individuals that the British and Foreiga
were =abashed, with the support and countenance of •
the king upon the throne, but without my grant er aid
ea the port of the igovonment. (Haar, hear.) So likewise
whoa tams sets wen smossodoil by the =honed schools
nes the pas of Do. Bell, eithwegh Ike clergy took • great
port ia Amos gawk, it was do= hy individuals
ef the eingy sod isity, and is no way countenanced or ea-
tiMemrtt the data. the year 1883 or 1833, a vote Wall
in lido boom of baked amount, not exceeding ten
or twenty thimmol =wads , for the purpose of aiding the
=madam el the weeideg alamos. That wet we given by
the dirostias al the tremory, sad apoonis Mated to be enlotto-
=the asthma sethey, scesl ef pethers et the
st Baikal, sof by the Wink sod Ifeedga 41160:11
wthray, who thee me mbar rale than that of resift the
eat day he the easel, and width comirtsd not may
of •iirsiimmt, bet of sliarshomm owl protests= di eaters
of sissy destatio
thisnies. (Hoar, hoor.)
whoa The
hoerth
M asps ia UMwas
proposal to kno a oimmitas of osimail, and
that the mat which had Warn bees granted
by the tesiwory .he the dinkiest solislim sioald hence-
forth pass throogir that committee, obi* emoted of the
whole soma err the whole of lie Miming whomms aosupiod
with otharomeras, &soldbeiwaisiyleirsesil bezp
molar sialoost. The bird pre at he toomoll was
at the hied ofthatammittee, pal he des *AP at ell
times, wirers ender the later the Ineestorespents, ,
of We potholer nether, of theldbegor the phis Or eds- •
eaten, sod he hought belhas the 111.111010 elt somell from
time be soil toplolese es he Ilbooglit wen ireful for
the wpm Mee Aggehtherof of that 111111Mittft,
ice the is leneeth gore the to pent thlttreeee of
24:11is the , am& Betel PI athemast 111/41116-
:1619 lons Areisbitheit of Orresebery in the
et erborass iageskommat protested mein the armation of
tlaso ossamkime, awl against say awn of education
while should otet he Woo* by UM beim perlimest, and
ft was rams kr mar time that the mokavours
et the issmaillos of mama em Oa OW hod. sad the
dna= of the dame ea the ail', Wall soil weak-
en= by Ids allasions of ninth, god the sena of the
dims& wee set es seammed as they Pith ethenthe ken
hum The german was in Ma items
limathe hispecton who should visit tiseLibea
be oppoiataii with the contras el. . of Ommter•
bag, he faiS•srhato of Cemarboop,llllllli
0 Pas asibt at Yea Mr the prookom, • Yorks and
that them kopesam amid loon ea to the imam of the
iii
saga, an the sergar sod inhosidoo given in
ths stork eiroariliog to dm tiara of Eng-
land i also that daplimoos mf a to religious
iestmestles Mend at eb don •ent M the archbi-
shops ; bat if &ay withhold • nesusesse them the
syphons% et tha Ingmar, is tho Ihe hisessa,
or if they allorwards dgailka time they would no
longer amen he the performance of his fuestlen,
Iserstesen should caw, and the somatitteo of 011•
sta 11.1
OMB sop creed when the awatkiebege .
Bask INN the thee of the g&F.I.111 geoetioa 11611111611 .
1 geodelalli the mph, he Taseworth (Mr It. Pilil arm
lifts mime, sad se sheep wee node with 1141.1114 Mks alp-
' poistmoot of • emosmktes of counciL Tam poen who
k weeselenged, the right hcm. pedeneggents,
osoothoe,
=ran,
en Len sod O
Wbki J.
son &than beteg nonlegal ea that
ille ang, • lis peddestmes '
beim of the hen lot soonit b
tee et soina. . 4 Ml*
bed, nos dm son, oneoneline with the rte Lai •
ommeseled_, an I have Ar
Men, with lrit doh sad Kerala agog 't
ha eseented on es to what shwa be Ihe - 1111106. •
the Commithos ef Ceased Pk the blab ail
angel Ifeelpy. It had ben_ geugned thatd,SMlL then&
gletensi le then ; sad I NOW thus he atop OP pen.

-