The Express.
London, England, 1849-05-26 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 26, 1849.

sad he trusted that without any further observations their
lardsldps would give a wend reeding to the bill.
Lord BROUGHAM thought it extremely doubtful whe
ther the bill would produce any good effect.
Lord CAMPBELL approved of the object of the bill. He
doubted, however, whether there was any cue of ordeetion
which the comma' law would cot reach. He thought it
better to rest on dos common law, but feeling, as he did, the
peat importance of the subject, he would not oppose the
second reading of the bill.
The Earl of MOUNTCABHELL supported the bill. The
country felt a very great interest in the stabject,as was prone
by the number of petitions which had been presented in
favour of the bill. He could mention ewe where relatives
of motile lords had been sacrificed, and he knew casts where
peones had offered, for a suflident sum of mosey, to entice
any young lady into a place where she might be seduced.
This bill did not go far enough. He had prepared a douse
for hinnies in the bill, but would not press It.
Lord CAMPBELL said that the offences pointed out by
the noble lord were now highly criminal, and might be made
the subject of prosecution.
The Bishop of OXFORD .:pressed his conviction that
the introduction of such a clause as that relined by the
noble Ind would be fatal to the bill. As to the *set of
the noble and loomed lord: in laying this bid on their'
lordships' table, he had said that he -should oak leave to
introduce an amendment in committee which would take
the second clause out of the bill, and put it in the first clause.
The noble and learned lord had said that under the 00111tela law
theroparctieet meaty of the offences mentioned in this bill might
Ds against for a couspiracy, and this bill wu to deal
wi cues where conspiracy could not be proved. It was in-
tended by the bill that whenever, for lucre or gain, such and
such offenses had bran committed, there a certain penalty
should attach. He held it as a reproach to the statute law of
England that offenoes eoald sot be dealt with and punished.
which by the common law of England were left
unpunished and untouched.
Lord CAMPBELL observed that he wished their lord-
ships to take care they did not aggravate an evil whilst try-
ing to remedy it. The right rev. prelate seemed to suppose
that it was difficult to prove conspiracy, but if it was proved
that a party had undertaken to perform the act alluded to,
he might be indicted for a conspiracy, and upon proof if
the act done, conspiracy would be inferred, and a verdict el
guilty pronounced and punishment awarded.
The Bishop of OXFORD still maintained that there were
certain persons, who for the sake of lucre, moat wickedly
practised this trade ; that the mammon law of England was
inraMcdeat ; and that they must have the advantage of statute
law.
Lord CAMPBELL then put the question, and declared
that the contents had it, and the bill was read a nand time.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—FRIDAY, MAY 25.
The SPRAYER took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
REPORT CONSIDERED.—Transfer of Sheffield Canal
to River Dun Navigation Company Bill.
THIRD READlNG.—Cockermonth and Workington
Railway (branch to Bridgefoo., amendment of act, and
1 tower to Imo to Whitakavan Junction Railway Company)

LORDS' AMENDMENTS CONSIDERED.—Bury St.
Edmund's Gas Company; Scottish Amicable Life Amurance
Society (incorporating and conferring powers); Bile.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
AGRICULTURAL DISTRFAS.—By Sir J. Y. BULLER, from
places in Devonshire, with 9,200 signatures ; Sir R. LOPES,
from several places in the same cAttity, complaining of agri
cultural distress, and praying for relief.
CASE OF J. BRBRINGTON.—By Col. THOMPSON, from
J. Berrington seeking for compensation for certain improve-
ments in military accoutrements.
SALE Or WHISHEY IN IRELAND.—By Mr. REYNOLDS,
from various towns in Ireland, complaining of certain excise
regulation, affecting the sale of whiskey.
COURTS OF RECORD, DUBLIN.—By Mr.'REYNOLDS,
from tee Lord Mayor and Corporation of Dublin, praying
that the duty of oompensitiag certain officers of Courts of
Record in Dublin may not devolve on them in the event of
any alteration in the law affecting such courts.
Pithox DISCIPLINE.—By Mr. C. PEARSON, from Dr.
Rice, u chairman of several meetings is the city, in favour
of alteration in our system of prison discipline.
COUNTY COURTS.—By Capt. PECIIELL, from Brighton
praying for an extension of the jurisdiction of county court:
to debts not exceeding 601.
REGISTRATION OF BIRTHS, &O. (SCOTLAND) BILL.—By
Mr. MACGREGOR, from Glasgow, against certain clauses
in this bill.
RETURNS ORDERED.—On the motion of Lord D.
Stumm—Returns of all salaries and emoluments received
by the tenni °Meets of the Palace and Marshahea Courts, in
each year from July 1838 to July 1848 inclusive; of the
number of actions brought and climes tried in the above
courts during every week of the same period ; of the amount
of costs in every action brought and cause tried during the
years 1847 and 1818, distinguishing those tried from those in
which judgment went by default, and also distinguishing the
number of cases submitted to taxation during the nine
periol ; and of all fines paid by counsel or attorneys for
liberty to practice in the same e-urts.

ACCIDENTS IN COASTING STEAMERS.
Mr. CARDWELL said that on a former evening the hon.
member for Limerick had celled attention to the state of the
steamer employed in the trade between England and Ire-
land, and had stated that numbers of deaths took place ,
among the passengers in consequence of cold and exposure.
On that occasion the right hon. the President of the Board
of Trade had stated that Capt. Denham had been despatched
on a mission of inquiry. The question he (Mr. Cardwell) had
to ask was, whether that gentleman had sent in any report.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said, that Capt. Denham bad re-
turned, but the preparation of his report had been retarded
by a domestic affi.otion. It was, however, expected at the
board te-morrow (this day), when he (Mr. Labouchere) ex-
pected that he should be able to carry out many of its sug-
gestions for the preservation of life, without being obliged to
call on pull ,ment for any fresh pavers.
AUSTRALIA.
Mr. HAWES, in laying on the table certain papers rela-
tive to Australis, took occasion to call attention to them,
earnestly recommending their perusal to such members of
the house as tole an interest in colonial affairs.
THE ESTIMATES.
In answer to COL SIBTHORP,
Mr. HAYTER stated that the navy estimates would be
taken on Thursday next.
Sir J. GRAHAM o',served that the miscellaneous esti-
mates had not as yet been laid on the table. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. PARKER said that they had been on the table some
time, but not distributed.
Sir J. GRAHAM—SureIy, under such circumstances, the
government will not press the miscellaneous estimates on
Thursday next. (Hear.)
• GRAND JURIES (IRELAND).
In answer to Mr. B. CRAWFORD,
Sir W. SOMERVILLE stated that a measure regulating
the fiscal duties of grand juries in Ireland had been kr sere-
tints in preparation.
MILITARY EQUIPMENTS.

Mr. C. LUSHINGTON wished for information from the
Secretary at War as to why certain improvements in =Musty
boots, the invention of a Mr. Dewy, had not been submitted
to the committee on the army and navy estimate
Mr. F. MAULE explained that the invention had been
fully considered and decided upon by the board of general
odious, who approved of the invention, but had declined to
make it what was technically called a sealed pattern.
EXAMINATION OF MILITARY OFFICERS.
Mr. EWART asked whether the present list of candidates
for commissioes in the army would be obliged to submit to the
examination recently ordered by the Horse Chards.
Mr. 11AULE was understood to say that many of **can-
didates had been for a long time on the list, and that the
rules foe exeminationwould act apply to theta.

TEE ESTABLISHED CHURCH.
Mr. HORSMA.N wished to know when it was the inten-
tion of govertunent to proceed with the Eccleaisstleal Be-
nefices Bill (as we understood). Also, what arrangements
were contemplated with reference to the rectory of Bishop
Westmeath.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that be would take the committee
ea the Ecclesiastical Benefices Bill pro formed on the Bth of
June. With regard to the second gelation, he had to state
Mat time question of the Bishop Weunsouth rectory had
bola ander consideration by the ecclesiastical eenunissioners,
and a scheme had been framed and sent to the law officers
of the crown for their consideration. As soon u the law-
dilate had given their opinion the hon. and learned mem-
ber should be made acquainted with it.
ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS.

In answer to another question,
Sir G. GREY stated that the possum of pulle business
would not permit of the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill being
brought in with a view of its beaming law during the pre-
sent mission.
T4s BUDGET.
. . . .

Kr. DISR&ELI vrish7dioknOt.;;lken it was intended to
make the annual financial statement.
Lord J. RIISSIILL said that he had given notice of kis
intention to go into, supply on Thursday next ; but, until
some progress had been made with the saimellaneons esti-
mates, his right hon. friend could not make his statement.
Se did not think there would be any statement until the
middle of June.
---- • -----

Lord J. RUSSELL said he proposed to take the inisoells-
nem estimates. (Several members, " They have not been
dellared.")
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
they would be delivered in the morning.
Mr. SPOONER hoped that they would not be passed ca
Thursday next.
Sir J. GRAHAM also thought that Thursday would be
too soon.
Lord J. RUSSELL hoped that these objections would not
be persisted in, as they would interfere with the general ar-
rangement of the business. Perhaps the better way would
be to take the civil contingencies first.
Mr. DISRAELI was anxious to know whether they
must wait for the budget until the estimates had been dis-
posed of ?
Lord J. RUSSELL aid that his right hon. friend could
not prepare hie statement until he knew how the house in-
tended to deal with the estimates.
After an observation from Mr. DISILLILI and Lord Joan
Ruse=
Ur. CIRDWELL said he understood the noble lord to
ay that the apparent* of the budget depended upon the
progress of the estimates; but the house had not received
any materials for forming an opinion on the latter,
not even an abstract having been laid on the table. The
hove therefore was not to be held responsible for the delay
of the government.
' Mr. GLADSTONE said it would be satisractory to know
what was the connexion between the miscellaneous estimates
and the budget.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it had always been the doctrine
that there should be ocesiderable progress made in vete, in
supply before the production of the final financial statement,
always sappoeing that a extraordinary circumstances called
for greater despawk.

DISTRESS IN IRELAND.
Mr. HERBERT wished tecall the attention of the noble
lord at the head of the government, to a statement whisk
had recently appthred in the papers, in the shape of a Meese
to the noble lord himself, and to the effect that a dead body
having been recently washed on shore on the west coast of
Ireland, a portion of it bad been eaten by the famishing
people. (Hear, hear) He wished to know whether the
noble lord had received any authentic information relative to
this horrible occurrence.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that be bad not received any
official account of the horriole circumstance to which the
hon. member for Kerry alluded. He had no reason to know
that it was correct, but would cause inquiry to be made.
He believed that the aura already issued by government was
about 80,0001., so that they had done everything in their
power for the relief of the distress. He did not believe that
any effort that house could make would prevent the present
unfortunate state of Ireland, or the occurrences of some
dreadful oases of suffering lied death. He did not believe
that it was in the power of the house to do much, and cer-
tainly they bad not shown much inclination to do even the
little that had been proposed. (Hear, hear )
In answer to Sir H. Wtetoroiniv,
Toe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he
proposed to lay on the table all reports and papers con-
nected with the new houses of parliament previous to luting
or any further vote of money.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL was glad to hear that the noble lord
at the head of the government proposed to make same in-
quiry respecting recent statements of distress in Ireland. He
(Mr. J. O'Connell) felt particularly anxious, because when,
on a recent occasion, he had made some statements, the
Right Hon. the Secretary for the Home Department had
secured him of exaggeration. He had certainly stated that
860 peness had died of destitution in the workhouse, whereas
it should have been of cholera and fever. He gave the right
hon. gentleman the full advantage of his error.
Mr. MONSELL said the poor law committee had that
day been examining witnesses from Ireland, and that their
evidence contained a more harrowing account than was ever
given of any civilised country since the creation of the
world. (Hear.) He agreed with the noble lord at the head
of the government teat it was utterly impossible by
any human means to stay the progress of destitution in
Ireland, and that whatever was done by the house there
must still exist great suffering. But the house might do
much more than was being done at present to arrest the pre-
vailing distress.
Mr. HORSMAN said that having on two occasions already
called attention to the lamentable state of Ireland, he would
now take the liberty of adverting to the misapprdhensions
under which the noble lord laboured relative to the
reeling of the house in respect to that country. The noble
lord seemed to think that it was the unwillingness of the
Louse to grant any more money which had caused the present
painful and distressing circumstances. Now, this was a sub-
ject which for the sake of their own characters hon. mem-
ben ought to clear up. If there was any gentleman respon-
sible for the stoppage of advances to Ireland it was the right
hon. gentleman the member for Ripon (Sir James Graham),
because of the statement he had made when the house was
asked to vote the 60,0001., and which it was evident
at the time was only the first of a series of ad-
vances in aid of Irish distress. The right hon.
gentleman bad then got up and said that he
would agree to that vote, but that he would not agree to any
further advances, inasmuch as he thought that all such '
minces stood in the place of a policy—that we ought to have,
measures of a comprehensive character, and that we ought
not to rely upon advances of money. The house adopted that
view, but at the same time echoed the sentiment that the
first duty of the government was the preservation of life, and
that on no occasion would a demand for money be made to
save the people from premature deaths that hon. members
would not be ready to grant it. Now since that
tame it was notorious that there were thousands
of people perishing in Ireland for the want of a
few thousands of pounds, which the house aught to contri-
bute ; and, without saying a word to canoe the slightest
pain to the government, he could not help agreeing in
opinion with the hon. member for Stroud (Mr. P. Scope)
that such a spectacle had never presented itself to the gaze of
I the civilised world before as that of a country in which thou-
sands upon thousands were allowed to permit of starvation
for the want of some small additional advance. (Hear, hear.)
Colonel SIBTHORP did not wish to interrupt the pro-
gress of the debate, but he should like to ask any boa. mem-
ber genversent with Ireland how far free trade =enmeshed
been a very great cause of the distress now prevailing in the
sister country ? ( ' Oh," and laughter.) He had every rea-
son to apprehend, that if these free trade manures were
persevered in on this side of the Channel, England would
Mel be reduced to the lamentable condition of Ireland.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
think it expedient to get into a discussion about free trade.
(Hear, hear.) SaVer as Ireland was concerned, he believed
that free Made had contributed very largely to the preserva-
tion of life. (Cheers. For he apprehended that, if any one
bat enema% dispute than another, it was this—that
gumdessimem hall imported into Ireland had afforded the
of mainesinisg life to a great extent, which would
net otherwise have been attained except by a much larger
m=dittut of money. (Hear.) An hon, gentleman had
said that lid. or Id. a day served to keep body and soul
together in Ireland ; but let it be remembered that that
small sum sufficed because of the use of Indian meal, the
introduction of which was one of those free.trade measures
of which the hon. and gallant member complained, and
without which life would not have been preserved. (Hear,
hear.) He warned honourable members against being
led away by the statements which were made regard-
ing Ireland, and if he wanted an example of the exaggera-
Mans which prevailed respecting that country it would
be thrulahed by a recent speech delivered by the hon. mem-
ber for Limerick (Mr. O'Connell). A few nights ago that
hon member stated that 860 deaths bad taken place within a
given time in Ballinadoe workhouse, and he had now cor-
rected that statement and said that 860 persons had been ill
of cholera and fever at Ballinasloe—that, in fact, 860 were
sick instead of 860 being dead.
Sir J. YOUNG.—I thought the hon. member said that
860 were receiving relief there.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said his
resellection of the statement was that 860 had died in one
week. It turned out, however, that thee° 860 were sick,
aced net dead—a very material difference, as hon. gentlemen
wadi petheive. (" RUT." and a laugh.) He warned the
ben" Wherefore, not to believe to the full extent all the
slate menbi Gls were made relative to &Wee, in Ireland.
LILT, hear.) The hon. member for Cockermouth had not
ted what had fallen on a former occasion from
the right member for Ripon (Sir J. Graham).
Ty ent, in the first instance, proposed a
w 60,0001., and intimated that other measures would
ards be introduced; and what the right hon. member
for Ripen said was, that he would vote for that grant, but
that he thought some other mseenres ought to be brought
'reward to make Ireland contribute its proper share towards
the relief of the poverty of the country. Indeed, that was
the view of several hon. gentlemen on the opposition benches,
that Irish property should contribute to the maintenanceof
Irish poverty. The general expression was, that it was most
nareesestable to expect further grants from the treasury ; that
advamsesseight be made ; but that it was indivensableto look
le preperty to npport Irish poverty. The hon. member
for Osekerisesth had upon the government to advance
a few thosteads of pounds additional to preserve life in Ire.
lead; but the hon. gentleman ought to know that the go-
nna:seat were now making advances, and expending the
greats already voted. When the hon. gentleman talked of
advance' mot having been made, he surely must have been
hp:Grant el what had been done, for the government had
been seekingces week bv week up to the present time,
end were making hem even before the rate in-aid received
the meet of the House of Lords. He thought, under these
circumstances, that government ought not to be
charged with' having
_withheld the means of relieving the
distrem which preed to a great extent in the west of Ire-
land. (Hear, hear.) They have issued directions for the
rin
collection of the rate in aid and the y would not shk from
doiag whatever lay in their power to mitigate the distress.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. E. DENISON believed the noble lord at the head of
the government had undertaken what no individual could
execute—namely, to maintain the lives of all the distressed
people in the sister country. It was impossible that a whole
people could be fed except from the ground upon which
they themselves 'toed. (Hear, hear.) Ile had always been
anxious to employ the able-bodied in raising sustenance from
the soil; and he believed the house and country were op-
posed to the making of additional grants of money to Ire-
land, because of the comparatively little benefits which had
been derived from the grants already made to that country.
Mr. REYNOLDS said that, in consequence of the neglect
which had been manifested by some parties or other, hun.
dreds of thousands of the Irish people had died of starvation.
It was lamentable to think that within twelve hours' jour-
ney of the capital of England they had British subjects
dying every moment of starvation. (Hear, hear.) The
workhouses of Ballinasloe contained 4,700 inmates,
gathered together from all parts of that union,