The Express.
London, England, 1848-08-08 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY, Aeo. 7.

The SPRALIIs took the chair at 12 o'clock.
PRIVATE. BUSINESS.
REPORT CONSIDERED.—LoniIin Way' Smell Debts till.
LORDS' AMENDMENTS CONsIDERED.—L.ourion and South
Western Railway Curapany's Acts Amendment, Eaten:bort, Devi:lS:oW
and New Works Bill.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PETITIONA—By Mr. UOLLAND, from the truatece of a turnpike
trot; Mr. FULLER, from • place in Suffolk, against certain provi-
sions of the Highway Rates Bill.—Alm rat GORDON. from Aber-
deen; Mr. I.OOEILART, from V:0 I 0 te part! of Scollunt ; Mr. DUN.
CAN, from Dundee, I:pink the Regietration and Al:irk:wee (Scot.
blurt Bill.—Lord G. BENTINCE, :rim the Speaker of the Douro of
Assembly of Totems. the prayers( 01000 the noble lord did not state.
SECOND READlNGS.—negistriesm, he. (Scotland,; :Marriage
(Scotland); Eli:Moore of Ade:its:tins in the County of Warwick and
Islgnord Criminal Law Administration Amendment Registers of
Wince (Scotland); Money Order Deportment (restsottlor); Bills.
COMMITTEES. FL:Aeries (Ireland) ; Prcelammion on lines,
Court of Common Pleas • Churches; Tithe Rent Charges ma.
(Ireland) ; Caowla Government; Bib..
REPOKT.—Militinsklallots Susernans: Bill.
THIRD RE.ADlNGS.—lnsolvent Debtor.' Court; Payment of Debts
oat of Real F•tats ;
NOTICE OF MOTION.—COLONIAL Demers.—Lord BEN-
TZ:ECK, to move on Friday neat that the petiuon from the Speaker
of the Mew of Assembly of Tobago be printed with the votes.
RETURN ORDERED.—On the 010000 of Mr. 101LsTE14, returns.
of the number of bills submitted to the grand jury at the Central
Criminat Court for each mu-ion, knee 1943, inclueite, Be., tee.:
end. similar return from 36:knew: ;roe parliamentary busi-
_

awe of yeeTeraaye
REGISTERING BIRTHS, Zee. (SCUTLAND)—MAR-
RIAGE (SCOTLAND) BILLS.
The LORD ADVOCATE, in moving the a +mud reading
of the Registering of Births, ate. (Scotland) Bill, said that
he was not aware that any distinct objection had been taken
to this and the next measure on the paper, namely, the Mar-
rtse es Bill, though to some points ef both acme opposition
had been raised in sonic of the petitions which had been pre-
sented to the house. It bad been incidentally obeseted that
these two bilis ought not to be pressed forward rat the present
advanced period of the session, but, in answer to that °hire-
don, hr need only remind the house that these bills, nearly
in the came shape, and certainly identical in orinciple, had
beet. submitted to the consideration 01 parliament at a very
eagle period of the lest session—they had passed the House
of Lords and had received a second reading in this
house—they had egone into committee pro forma for
the purpose of making certain amendments—they had
been printed in their amended form, and then had ,
been withdrawn because it was thought right that
the people of Scotland should have an opp rtunity of
considering both measures. At the beginning of the present
year both hilts had again been introduced in the Howie of
Lords, and under his (the Lord Advocate's) own direction,
bete ten 200 and 300 copes had, is March last, been sent
down to every county and important burgh in Scotland; so
that ample time had been afferded for the consideration both
of the principle and the details of these b Us. This year
both measures had undergone considerable discussion in the
other house of parliament, hut stil: no objection had been
raised to the principle of either one or the other. Under
such circumstances he should be guidy of a nee. ct of duty if
be did not press forward these two measures, which were of
vast irnportence. At present the registers in Scotland were
not only imperfect with reference to thin protection of private
rights, but in fact only furnished information, which in
courts of law, and especially in peerage cases before the
House of Lords, had been Wiesen to he delusive and calcu.
label to mislead, In additien to this, the same
corseterteions which h tcl ltd in 1837 to legislation
with regard to the proper and perfect tegistration
of births, deaths, and marriages in England, had
induced this peopled 1. gislation on the same subject for
Scotland, and the object of the first bill was to establish in
Scotiend the same system which in 1837 bad been adopted
in England 'with so much private and public advantage,
With reamed to the machinery of the first—the Registration
Bill—the immediate busine's of reeistranon necessarily
under the bill, devote', an in England, upon local
registrars, of whom the bill did not contemplate to multiply
the number. With regard to the expense, he must observe
that ureter this measure there would not be any charge
against the district for the resistratien of marriages, the fees
M that Teepeet being required to be paid by the contracting
parties, and therefore the only thing which would form a
charge in the parish district, or subdivision wink be for the
registration of births and deaths. In this respect he had
poserssed himself of some calculations (melded upon the
returns of the reel-Mar-gen, ral for Enelend, and assuming
the population of Scotland to be now 3,000 000 ( which was
400,000 more than the last censevt there would he probablT in
each year in Scotl red of birth. 98.700, and of deaths, 66,1.40,
making a total of 163,300 entries in the register in each year.
It was propneed that in ea-li dirtict the first 20 entries
should nay a fee of 2.. 6d.. hut all entries after the first 20
shou'el be charged Is., and on this a/Pumice the popu-
latien to be 3,000000, the total expense of the registration
of lei.VA and deaths could amount to 9,5001. is e ,ch ',ear.
This wool • be the sum to be raise.i locally tor this purpene.
There were about 900 perfidies in Scotland, and these he had
arranged with reference to their population, and he fund
there were 268 in which the population was under 1,000, and
avereyed about 7.50. in these the etima.ed eepcnse of re-
gistering hieths and deaths would not exceed 31. lite. each
per annum. He found there wire 275 parishes in which the
population ranged mom 1,000 t, 2,000, or with se average of
1,818, and in each of these parishes the expense of registra-
tion would e mount to 6/. 10s. per annum. tie also found
thot the re were 217 parishes in which the pepuia•ion varied
front 2,000 to 4,000, or giving an average 4)1'2,764, and
the expense in these more populeus oistricis would not
be more than 91. 10e. per annum. This charge it was pro-
posed to defray out of the parochial rates. With respect to
the officers it wan proposed to make the session clerks the
registrars of the district, end for mpg-Mimed, nee to entrust
that duty to the sheriff clerics of counties, who were not only
by education and professien well qualifier for tee duty, hut
who heel places of business suited to keep and to preserve the
rewards which would be necumulated under thin fell. Over
the whole it was intended to have a central beat el in Edin-
burgh, under a registrar-gent rel, as in this country, and the
ester n of this heard would lee defrayed out of the public
revenue of Scotland, and would form an annual vote in the
miseellane.ms eat imatea, so en to be always under the check
and reenter' of parliament. Wien regard to the secend mea-
sure—via., the Marriages Bill, fee would only remark, that
registration would be of no avail unless the law of marriage
in Scotland was altered. The present state of the marriage
law was a reproach upon the country, and the
necessity of its amendment could not be disputed.
tinder this shocking system parties might be held to be
married who had never had any intention of entering into
that relation. The noble lend here referred to cases
which had arisen is the Scottish law courts under this stete
of the law, in which parties had been held to he married
who during many years had ceased to hold any communica-
tion. and had never lived tagethrr. In one case, in which
property to the amount of 20,0001. a year was concerned, a
gentleman had simply said to his domestic servant, " You
are my wife." She made no answer; he wen, out and shot
himself, end she was held to be his widow. By the present
bill he proposed no interference with the regular marriages
with which religious service was connected; as to all others,
• he would place them out of the law, being convinced, from
a long course of professional experience, that they were
attendee with the most fatal and unhappy consequences.
To those parties who did not choose to go before the clergy-
man. he would say—" (io to the registrar ; place your names
00 record there; and thus secure yourselves and your issue
from the evil consequences of thoee,marriagee that have
hitherto been held legal." The Scotch law had been erro-
neoeisly supresed to protect female virtue ; en far from this,
it be an opposite effect ; for men would deny on oath that I
they had given any promise, and recourse was °Misted to be
had to secondary evidence, such as the payment of addresses.
He proposed that in ell cases where proof could not be given
of ruerrieee before a clergyman or registrar, that the mar.
Haste should be absoluoly void. At present marriages in
Scotland were irregular if the banns had not been duly pro-
claimed. But the banns might be read thrice in one day,
even before the service began, and the certificate of the clerk
was conclusive evidence of this formality being complied
with. Even if the banns were not proclaimed, and the
marriage were irregular, if the marriam were merely
contracial by a mutual declaration in the public sues% in

--------
the presence of • third party, or before a magistrate, the
marriage was binding, though irregular, and no penalty at-
tached to the parties ; but if the clergyman were brought
into the field at all he was liable to a penalty for any irregu-
larity. Such was the encouragement which the church of
Scotland had given to regular marriages. This bill provided
effectually fir ten days' previous publication where pealed
were married by the regietrar • and if the church of Scotland
did'not cheese to amend their 'law as to banns let them not
complain of the encouragement proposed to be given to irre-
gular marriages. Nast of the petitions that bad been pre-
sented against this bill were rather against the details than
the principle of the measure ; and he had the most well-
founded assurances that the bill would be a great publlc be-
nefit. Complaint had been made of the late period, at which
it had been received from the other house ; but had not the
other house equal grouted to complain of the late retied
at which bilis were sent up to them from this
house ? Great part of the opposition to this measure he be
lieved to emanate from the clerks of session in Scotland,
whose emolument would be affected; and had he been able
to propose a compensation to them, he believed their opposi-
tion would never have been heard of
Mr DUNCAN said that two former bills on this subject
had, alter repeated postponements, been withdrawn by the
learned lord ; and now he reintroduced them two months
Later in the session. Not • single petition had been presented
in (moue of these bills, and uewards of thirty against them.
Last session, no fewer than 230 petitions had been presented
against similar tills, and only one in their favour. As yet,
the bill had scarcely reached the northern districts of Scot-
land otherwise the number of petitions against it would
have been greater. He was not opposed to • registration of
marriages and deaths, but believed that if time were given
to Scotland a system might be adopted which would be far
less expensive than the measures new proposed. Ile moved
that the bill should be read a second time that day three
months.
Mr. HOME was not opposed to the principle of either
bill; he believed the law required amendment; but he
thought the best course would be for the learned lord to take
the second reading of his bills, and then let them stand
over till next version. The measures affected the whole
people of Scotland. No one had asked for these bills; and at
least time ought to be given to consider them. During the
learned lord's speech there had only been 28 members
present ; and it was hopeless to look fur a (air consideration
of the measures at this period of the session. The bills were
open to all the objections that attended the English system,
under which a man might register his own death or birth.
(Groat laughter.) Ours was but a mere approximation to a
system of registration, and nothing like that which was in
force in various countries of the continent. The
bill of last year had been thoroughly examined by
a committee of the Statistical Society, who had pointed
out various objections to the measure, and brought them
under the notice of the learned lord and the right con. the
Home Secretary, who promised them consideration ; and yet
here was the some measure, with as little variation as pos-
sible, re-introduced. It was altogether an imperfect measure;
and yet its cost would be 10,. a year. The case had been
the same with the l'risons Dille
;, it bad been shuffled hastily
through the house, and was now found to be einem, inopera-
tive. At eo late a period of the session, when it was difficult
to make a house at all, it was impossible that these measures
could be properly considered. It was evident the evils they
were meant to remedy could not be very pressing, as there had
only been a single petition for the bills. As to the law of
marriages in Scotland, though it was undoubtedly att noted
with evils, it was more satisfactory on the whole than the
English law. He protested ugainst the bills bein4 now pro-
ceeded with, and should oppose them at every stage.
Mr. LOCKHART also protested against the measures
being pressed when the attendance of members was so thin.
Lost year the opposition to the bills had been most general
and determined. 'Various important conceesi me were now
made to the wishes of the country; but still the opp
continued. The expense would far exceed the O,fitell. per
annum which had been mentioned. There were, in addition,
the salaries of superintendent registrars and others, which
were to be fixed by the treasury, and of which no estimate
could be formed. He noticed that there were not now forty
members present ; and he would now move that the house
be counted.
The galleries were cleared; but there being more than
forty members present the business proceeded.
Mr. BAILLIE considered that the bill ought rot to Le
proceeded with at the present late m sod of the *steak 0.
After • few words from COI. THOMPSON,
Mr. F. SCOTT did not object to the principle of the bill ;
but he considered the machinery by which it was to be car-
ned toot was both unnecessary and expensive. Ile hoped the
government would not press the measure is as thin a house,
and at so late • period of the session.
Mr. M'GREGOR trusted that the Lord Advocate would
not press the bill. Its clauses were not known iu Scotland.
and it would be much better to give time to the people of
that country to consider them between this and the next
session of parliament. lie did not consider the clauses for
remedying the defects which existed in the present system of
reeistration the best that could be devised. On the whole
he thought it would he best to read the hill a second time pro
fornscl, and then postpones it till next session.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND did not know when the people of
Scotland would consider the provisions of the bile if they
, had not done so already for certainly they had had sufficient
time to consider it. (Hear.) There was no objection to the
principles of the bill, and that was a reason why they should
assent to the second reading, and consider the details in
committee. He considered that a system of registration
would be • great improvement. With regerel to the act of
marriage, the state should only concern itself with the civil
part of it; the religious part of the ceremony should
he
left to the discretion of individuals, and registration should
be taken as evidence of its proper celebration. It was im-
possible to see how the bill could be carried out in any other

Way.
Mr. ELLIOT said that the present state of the law of
marriage in Scotland was most disgraceful to that country,
and particularly to the female part of the community; and
his best thanks were due to the Lord Advocate for intro-
ducing a bill on the subject. Every person who beard the
statement of his right hoc, friend must be convinced of
the necessi'y of the change in respect to the law of marriage
and registration. Whether the bilk before the house were
the best that enild he devised he would not then say ; hut it
seemed to him that they took every necessary precaution.
If aime such hill as this were not introduced they would go
on from worse to worse. The objection urged agairat the
postponement on the ground that the people of Scotland
dual be allowed time• to consider its provisions was quite
futile, because a bill on the same subject had been intro-
duced in the last session of parliament and withdrawn, and
the present bill had been introduced into the House of Lords
at an early period of the session.
Mr. S. WORTLEY was fully impressed with the neces-
sity of making an alteration in the present marriage law of
Scotland, which was productive of much mischief and mis-
fortune ; but, so the subject was one Of gnat importance,
and as it would be impossible at the present period of the
erasion to give it a full and deliberate consideration, ae was
of opinion that his learned friend should take the second
reading as an admission of the principle of the measure, and
then postpone it till next sessioo. (He ir, hear.)
Mr. EWART was much in favour of the principle of the
Registration and Marriage Bills, and thougi.t that so.ne
such measures were indispensable for any country; hut as
there were strong objections to several of their proviiions—
there being no less than 21 amendments—he thought it both
fairer to the people of Scotland and to the house tnat they
should be postponed till next maim.
Admiral GORDON, Mr. UktQV HART, and Mr. Asinensiost,
also urger] the propriety of postpoiiing the bills.
The LORD ADVOCATE said that after the expression of
(minion on the pert of the house he won d take the second
reading quite unconditionally, but at the same time he did
not mean to say that the considerations o hich had been
urged would of induce him, taking into account the
period of the evasion, not to proceed with the bills. (Hear,
hear.) The house, however, must understand that he gave
no pledge. On Friday, or sooner if possible, he would state
the course he meant finally to pursue.
After a few words from Mr. Hulot, the amendment was
withdrawn, and the bill was read a second time.
On the motion that the Marriage Bill be read a second

time,
Mr. HERRIES urged on the le..tned lord tthe Lord Advo- I
eau) the propriety of now stating the course he meant to
pursue.
Mr. LOCKHART said that the course proposed we the
learned hod would be most inconvenient. Ile ought new to
state whether be would proceed with the bills or not.
The LORD-ADVOCATE peon sted against being c died
on to state then what he would do finally with regard to
the bills.
Mr. F. SCOTT moved that the bill be read a w cowl time
that day three months.
Mr. HUME setsinded the motion.
Mr. WOR.TLEY hoped the hon. gentleman would not
persevere in his motion alter the statement of till• keened lord.
Mr. URQUHART said that she I. anted lord was pressing
the bills against tee expressed wish of the hooht , and against
decency. He hoped the house would not endure the dicta-
tion of the learned lord. (Oh, ob.)
Mr. F. MAULE could nut but admire the modesty of the
hon. gentleman—a member of one year's standing—in using
such language towaris his learned friend who had sat for
several years in that house, and tell'ng his; learned friend
what course he ought to pursue with regard to his own hills.
(Hear, hear.) The members of that house had a discretion
as to the manner how, and the time when, they would pro-
pose the various stages of bills. Hie learned friend acted
properly in taking time to consider what he would do.
After some further observations the bills were read a second
time, and or:•ered to be committed on Friday.
The house then adjourned until 5.
The house resumed at 5 o'clock.
MERCHANT SEAMEN'S FUND.
Mr. LABOUCHERE, in answer to Mr. Hume, stated
that it was not the intention of the government to institute
any further inquiry into the management of the Merchant
Seamen's Fund until the bill for altering the navigation laws
, had been passed.
DESERTION OF SEAMEN_ AT QUEBEC.

And in answer to a question from Mr. hiONFIELL, the right
hon. gentleman stated that the Earl of Elfin and the mer-
chants of Quebec were engaged in devising means tor
put.ing a stop to the desertion of merchant seamen at that

Fort.
SUGAR DUTIES.
Lord J. RUSSELL, in reply to a question from Lord
G. BENTINCK, Said it WU mn hie intention to hr:.ag on
the Sugar Duties Bill to-night, hut he would give the noble
lord timely notice of his intention to do ay.
COMMERCIAL DISTRESS.
Mr. BERRIES asked the noble lord whether he could
find a day for discussing the rep it of the committee on
commercial distress, as the house would not stand well
with the country unless some ierussion was had before they
prorogued, and that with a slew to pledge themselves early
mat PC esion to bring forward irono remeoial measures.
Lord J. RUSSELL suggested Tuesday as the only day
open to the right hon. gentleman for such a discussion.