The Express.
London, England, 1849-05-22 00:00:00

depend on the course of legislation of foreign coun-
tries, the mode proposed by his noble friend on
the moos bench was much better than the mode proposed
by the noble lord. How would this work? In bringing
corn from Dantsie it was the Prussian ship which was a most
dangerous rival ; but It might so happen that there were
not, at the particular moment when the exigencies of the
trade required it, privileged ships to bring these particular
goods to this country from a foreln port what happened?
Either it was desirable to open this trade farther or it was not.
If it was desirable, open it at once ; if it was not, restrict it.
The nolge lord said that he meant substantially to maintain
the law as it stood as to the restriction of
importing the produce of Asia, Africa, and Ame-
rica from porta in Europe; and the reason he gave
war, that he wished to retain the advantages we
had in our great warehousing system ; that we brouelit
sugar, tobacco, and coffee from Asia, Africa, and America,
that they were placed in warehouses, and then, as they
were wanted, were sent to all the great European markets.
We knew we could carry these articles to Prussia or Ham-
burg ; but, if we maintained the law as it now stood, Russia
had already passed a law by which, at the expiration of the
treaty by which we were at present bound, those articles
would no longer be sent to Russia. The same thing happened
with the Haase Towns, with northern and southern Ger-
many; distinct notice had been given that those countries
would impose similar restrictions upon us. (Hear, hear )
Therefore in 1853 the great advantages which we now had
from our warehousing system would be entirely destroyed.
Foreign nations, by simply applying to us the restrictions
which we applied to them, would render • continuance of
that system impracticable. That great system, which had
converted all Europe into a single commercial market, as it
were, would be entirely ruined, end we, as the most commer-
cial country, should be the greatest sufferers by such •
chance. Did the noble lord remember the well-known
fable of the dog and the shadow ? Let them beware
that whilst greedily grasping at the shadow they did not lose
the substance. (Cheers.) The noble lord told them that
the effect of the general opening of the indirect trade would
be to throw it open to our most dangerous of all rivals, the
Amok:ace, and he referred to the trade between the Unites
States and Liverpool to show to what a great extent we were
under a disadvantage compared with the Americans. We
could compete with American ships when we met them or
perfectly equal terms ; but between our own country and
America we could not compete with them on equal terms on
account of the restrictions impoeed by our navigation laws.
He now came to the colonial part of the question. The
noble lord had admitted the other night that Canada had a
strong case. Accordingly he was curious to see what pro-
pout the noble lord would have to make, and he confessed
he was surprised at the amendment which the noble lord
had livid upon the table. With regard to other colonies, the
noble lord did nothing; and with regard to Canada, he
mode a concession which he would venture to say would
prove utterly futile. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord
met the difficulty of Canada by allowing American
ships to load outwards from Canada to this country—
But how did the noble lord reconcile that with his dread of
our " most dangerous rival ?" (Cheers) The noble lord
was actually going to protect the American against all ether
'ideas with respect to the trade of the St. Lawrence ; and
at the same time, he really did nothing whatever for Ca-
nada; because what Canada wanted was, that ships should
be allowed to go there so cheaply with general articles, that
they would be enabled also to return cheaply with the pro-
duce of that country. During the brief suspension of our
navigation laws with regard to corn, no less than 22 ships
arrived in the St Lawrence from Bremen, with emigrants
from Germany. They were going to the United States;
but when the Bremen ships could bring back flour to this
country from Canada, the St. Lawrence was the cheapest
route, and Canada thus gained doubly. In the same manner
with regard to the ships of the United States. The noble
lord would allow them to bring corn from Canada to this
country, but he would not allow them to go to Canada in a
manner which would make it worth their while to do so. lie
repeated that they would do nothing substantial for Canada
unless they at threw open the St. Lawrence that ships of all
nation might freely resort to that river, and bring back,
cheaply, cargoes from that country. He called' upon them
to remember what was the principle at issue between the
noble lord end himself. The noble lord told them that he
prorated to maintain substantially the existing regulations,
and to do nothing more than was absolutely necersary in
re moving restrictions. Her Majesty's government, on the
other hand, ropes d that they should begin by repealing
restrictions, and then re-impose thaw which should be shown
to be necessary. Let the noble bid show the necessity for
them after ping through them in detail, and then they
should re-impose any one of the restrictions for which even a
lausible case could be made out. But he did contend that
the outs probande rested with the noble lord. (Hear, hear.)
The treble lord had asserted that the present measure would
impose acme onerous restrictions upon the British ship'
owner. Let I fan prove that to be the case, and no one
would more readily yield than himself, opposed as
he was to every sort of restriction. But he must say
that their lordships ought not to begin by striking out
those clausi a of the bill which removed all existing
restriction, upon navigation, for if they did so they
would very much compile eta the measure. As to
the noble lord's assertion that the opinion of the country was
against the repeal of the navigation laws, he would not enter
into the argument again to prove that it was not so; but he
should content himself with reiterating his opinion. He
hoped, therefore, that their lordships, having already assented
to the principle of the bill, would not retrace their steps by
agreeing to the al mendm, nt.

of this country, but he voted under the pressure of an absolute
necessity which imposed at imperative duty. The defence
of our institutions was to be preferred to wealth, and theft.
fore he voted for those branches of the revenue and spirt
the repeal of the Litigation laws. (Cheers.)

Earl FITZ WILLIAM raid the noble and learned joa
who had Nat sat down bad occupied much time in travelling
them about over all portions of the globe, and had devoted'
very brief space indeed to the consideration of the question
before them. The noble and learned lord inquired who it was
that called for these alteration, and asserted that every on
wag satisfied with the present law. Why he( EirlFi:: ablitm)
contended that molt of the great commercial bodies through-
out the country called for the repeal ofthese laws, and more
than that, he asked did not foreign countries eel
upon tir, unmistakeably, for a modification of our rya.
temp (Cheers.) He called upon the In to look to the
power which Denmark wee row exercieinn, and to buy is
mind that the naval supremacy of England was not
ascribable to the Navigation se He denied not
that that act might have temporarily produced some
effect, but be contended that it wee one of temoorety
creation ; and he believed that the mom perfect confidence
might be entertained that its repeal would unshackle com-
merce and tend to the security of our mercantile marine.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH begged to fecal the attention
of the house to the propositions which had been submitted.
As the second reading had been affirmed, and the bill son
then in committee, noble lords on both aides were agreed
that some alteration was to teke Mace in the naviganddi laws.
Her Majesty's miuisten proposed that former ac's should be
repealed, but they reserved to themselves the power of im-
posing prohibition and restriction in certain cases upon the
vessels or articles of foreign come:Tin. The amendment
of his noble friend (Lord Stanley) established a more con-
venient mode than that {,reposed by the bin of arriv ng at
the object which they all had in view. All that Wn now
asked was to establish a certain mode of proceeding, in order
to enable them to gain equivalent ben( firs from foreign
nations. He could hardly are how their lordships coed
hesitate to adopt the mode propped by his noble friend 4,1
e°ol g4t144 ‘t',7
mu yagoe• inn anu 011 PS •••••..-
the act, and be applicable without vasietion.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE denied altogether that
the only difference between the bill and the amendments
was as to the mode of arranging a system of reciprocity. If
that were so, the bill would indeed be msignificant. (Hear,
hear.) As pointed out by the noble lord on the cross benc.
there was this great difference between them, that by the
bill they removed all the restrivions they could, and retained
the power only of imposing them, when forced by nem ssi'y
to do so, while the noble lord (Stanley) retained Ell the
restrictions he could, and relaxed only those which he wee
driven to relax by the force of circumstances, and which he
could not even by his own amendments resist. The noble
earl who spoke last conceived that if this bill passed, it
would be in the power of any other nation to hamper
and restrict our commerce by new proh,bitory duties. Why
the bill contained a clause to guard against such a possibility.
(Hear, hear.) That clause stated that in cue it should be
made to appear to her Majesty that British vessel' were sub-
Iject in any foreign country to any prohibitions or rem:Tic:ions
as to the voyages in which they might engage or as to
the articles which they might import into or • sport from
such country, it should be lawful for her Majesty, it she
thought fit, by order in council to impose such prohibitions
or restrictions upon the ships of such country, either se
to the voyages or articles, and by the following clause
power was given to her Majesty. to impose additional duties
whenever British ships were either directly or indireefly
subjected in any foreign countries to any duties or charges
whatsoever from which the national vessels of such country
were exempt. He would remind those noble lords who
spoke contemptuously of reciprocity that there was a
well-authenticated statement, drawn from sources of un-
doubted veracity, whereby it appeared test under ex-
isting reciprocity treaties, this country not only shared, but
absolutely enjoyed, almost a monopoly of the carrying trade
with some of the not them ports, and these 'Weans/Lees would
certainly be lost to Englat.d if their lordships ,treed to the
amendment, for the treaties were about to expire, and the
effect of the amendment would be to prevent her Msjesty
from renewing them. With respect to the commercial part
of the question, be must say that if there was any part of
the commercial progress of England which he regarded with
unmixed satisfaction, it w..s the gradual growth and de-
velopment of the warehousing system. If the extension of that
system was carefully examined and atalysed from its com-
mencement up to the present time, it would be found that
every fresh advanco that had been made in the warehousing
system had been attended with incensed preoperity to the
00112111M0 and the manufactures of the country. The
perfection of the warehousing system would be in
rendering England the entrepdt of Europe, and the
retort of all strangers for the purchase of the com-
modities which, under that system, would pour into this
island. Indeed the principal advantage which the bill was
calculated to confer upon Great Britain was to e :tend to a
very great degree the warehousing system. If their lord-
ships listened to the intent' s of commerce. they we uld, not
as now, with a good grace, but as then, with a bad grace, be
compelled to yield. (Cheers.)
The committee then divided—
For the amendment lO3
Against it
On our readmission to the gallery,
Lord STANLEY was on his legs, making a statement as
to the couree he should pursue with ref:reuee so the eu'oe-
qoent clanY,s, the substance of which did not reach the
gallery.
The house then resumed, and it was arranged that the
committee should sit again on Thunday.
The house adjourned at a quarter to one o'clock.

Lord WHARNCLIFFE said that the amendment of his
noble frieed wa, quite opposed to the principle of the bill
which their lordships had assented to, and therefore it would
be highly inconsistent in the house to r dopt it.
The Earl of HARROWBY did not believe that Great
Britain would ever obtain an equivalent for what the gave
away by this bill—sod therefore he hoped their lordships
would adopt his noble friend's amendment, thereby main.
taining the principle of the navigation laws, and yielding
such concessions as were absolutely necessary.
L,rd COLCHESTER supported the amendment.
The Marquis of CLANItICARDE referred to the state-
ments of his noble friends who were opposed to the bill, that
it was in opposition to the feelings and opinions of the
people. The facts proved the reverse of such statements.
lie was, however, surprised to find that the noble lord who

HOUSE OF COMMONS—MONDAY, MAY 21.
The SPEAKZEt took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
SECOND READING.—Leeds and Think Itiilway
(power to guarantee interest on certain shares,
REPORTS CONSIDERED.—East Anglian Ihilmays
(Ely and Huntingdon Railway, extension of time) ; Taunton
Town and Market Improvement; Bills.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PETIT ONS PRESENTED.

had Proposed the amendments had not addreeeed ARBITRATION TREATM UNCLAD or WAR.—By Mr.
himself at all to a most important matter, and stove GRANTLEY BERKELEY, from places in Gloucester-
all others deserving of consideration, namely, the shire, in favour of internsttonal arbitration treaties.
effect produced by the navigation laws upon our foreign SUPERANNUATION FUND Fon Poore LAW OPPICIALS.—
treaties and our foreign relations generally. Fer het own By Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY, from master and
part, he was at a loss to know how their treaties could con- matron of Stow in-the-Wold workhouse, in lavcur of come
ttnue to be observed if those laws were to be much longer in pensation for poor law officers.
existence. (Hear, hear.) It was the opinion he might FISHERY REGULATIONS, —By Mr. GRANTLEY
almost say of every Intelligent man that a system BERKELEY, from fishermen of the Severn, on the subject
of reciprocity was the right and best system and
of there regulations.
that restrictions were productive of the utmost disadvantages. SLAVS-GROWN SUGAIL—By Mr. GRANTLEY BERKE-
By the adoption of a liberal principle of trade England would
LEY, from Newenham and Little Dean (Forest of Dean),
invite other nations to do likewise, and would give the best against the imeortation of alcove-grown sugar, and &legit)!
proof that she believed it to be the wisest and most beneficial
system. The very same objections now urgedby noble lords that large steamers, capable of carrying 2,e00 persons, were
now employed in carrying slaves.
opposite, bad been advanced many years ago, upon AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.—By General LYGON, from
the opening of the West Indian trade, and experience
Worcestershire, comp:tieing of agricultural distress.
had since 'hewn whether they were sound objections.
No one could entertain the least doubt that the measure was COUNTY FINANCIAL Reroam —By Mr. HEY WOOD,
supported by the great weight of the intellect and property from a board of guardians in Yorkshire, in favour of mum/
ot this country. The movement taken by the noble lord boards with this object.
opposite to establish, B
or, rather, to perpetuate restrictions, COURT OP CHANCERY (IRELAND):y Mr. SADLEIR,
was, therefore, most mistaken, and altogether in the wrong from clerks of the Court of Chancery in Ireland, praying for
direction. Whether our foreign relations generally or our compensation in the event of the Encumbered Estaes Bill
colonies were considered, there was no doubt that the (citric- pasig into a law.
tine system of commerce was not calculated to enable EXPLOSIONS IN COAL MINES.—By Mr. F. O'CONNOR,
the British people to maintain, much lees improve or from 5,000 coal miners, praying for some legislative enact-
extend their trade. meat to ...cure safety in coal mines.
&rangers were then ordered to withdraw, but, whilst in UNIVERSAL SUPPRAGIL—By Mr. S. CRAWFORD, from
the act of doing so, Rochdale, in favour of universal suffrage.
Lord BROUGHAM advanced to the table, and said be THE CATHOLIC OATH.—By Mr. S. CRAWFORD, from
should not have discharged the residue of his duty, respect- a Roman catholic clergyman, praying for alteration in the
ing that measure, with satisfaction to his own mind, if, in catholic oath.
opposing the motion before their lordships, and Riving his
support to the amendments of hie noble friend, he had not Duo CARTS.—By Lord MAHON, from Hertford, against
stated his reasons for doing so. The noble and
learned lord then proceeded to criticise Earl Gran- INCREASED WAOTA'rciOPERATITES.-•By H. SLANEY,
sille's speech, in which he said that noble earl from a place in Yorkshire,
.neepraying that means might be
the use of dog carts.
an lavawages to operatives. . .
had commented upon statements he had neither heard
takento secure
declinedsupporting theprayer of the petteon.)
or read ; for they happened not to have been reported. He hon. member
of (The
(Lord Brougham) would not say how long by the clock—(a
laugh)—the noble earl bad addressed their lordships , for, NEW WRIT.
whenever the noble earl spoke, one never thought how lone. the motion of Mr. TUFNELL, a new writ was ordered
the office of Judge-Advocate-General. '
(Laughter.) They forgot how the time mesa unless they forClutherl dshire, in the room of 'Sir D. Dundee who had
moved to look at the clock. (Laughter.) But, if he could accepted t
judge by his own sensations, he should certainly say the IRISH POOR LAW.
noble earl had been dilating for at least a half hour—(in- Sir It. Fzeoussox brought up the report of the come
creased laughter)—by the clock, not upon the motion before mitts on the Irish poor law.
the house—nor upon the amendments proposed by his noble ATTACK UPON HER MAJESTY.
friend, but the noble earl's observations were altogether eon-
Lord J. RUSSELL, previous to moving the postponement
fined to the debate upon the second reading of the bill.
of two orders which steed first on the paper, said—l think it
The petitioners regarded this only as a small instalmeat of but right, and calculated to allay the public apprehension
what they had a right te—vie., the absolute and entire re
which must have been created by the statement of the news-
movel of all restrictions whatever. A very able and papers of Saturday evening, that a treasonable attempt had
lamented friend of his had said in this very house, that the
Cen made on the life of her Majesty, that I should inform
man who talked of the absolute removal of all restrictiots wa the house that it is unfortunately true that a pistol was dis-
fitter for Bedlam than an assembly of lane men. There was
re urn to Buckingham Palace •, yet it has been found that
charged at the Queen whist her Majesty was peeing on her
hardly an exception to the unanimity of the opinion against
this ill-fated bill. The noble marquis who spoke last called
there is no reason to accuse the per. on who discharge 1 the
pistol of any. treasonable attempt, and that the crime he het
on the house to pass the bill out of respect to the
lower house—he did not say increuing majorities,
committed Is mere remarkable for baseness than atrocity. I
but he ought to have said diminishing majori-
I can only further state my conviction that if the attempt
ties. Last year the majority was 117, and in spiteof were of another kind, I should have the cordial assent—
all the canvassing of the government, it had this year (the noble lord was interrupted by the most enthusi-
thisnled to 54, or less than a half, and the two majorities of .....,e cheering from all .
part, of the ousei—of this house
year did not make up the majority of last year. He "'"
observed the extraordinary efforts made to pass this bill. to an address to her Majesty, to congratulate her Majesty
on the eservation of so valuable a life. (Loud cheers.)
The most unusual preparations bad been made; he saw pre-
Her Majesty, on this occasion, which might have been gni of
cautions of the most unprecedented description used to pro-
the most serious importance, behaved with her usual nitre
-
cure a majority, as if the fate of the empire depended upon
pidity and self-possession. (Loud and general cheering.)
it ;as if the security of the state, the prosperity of England, Thenoble lord concluded by postponing the Ecelesiasticat
saw a right rev. friend of his enter the house who had not
depended upon pa.stan g this measure this very night. He Commission and the Poor Relief (Ireland) Bills to the 4th
heard one word of the debate. Forth went the
Mr. J. O'CONNELL hoped, as an Irish member, to be
summons, and from a distance men hastened to be here to Mr.
to ssy, that if anything could aggravate the mi.
night. Some of these parties represented the country abroad,
permitted
his unfortunate country, it was the reflection that the
but Europe was not in such a state as to justify these re- 'le, t charged with this outrage was an Irishman.
morals. Europe, frees east to west, was in an agitated state
—Europe was shaken to its foundation by revolutions. If (Cheers.)° During Ebelth wildest toexcitemen of popular phrensy
June next. .
In that country he ieved that o ne harboured the
he were to name a day in which, ever since he bad known
France, by all kind of information and by all matter of
aslil even now he believed that misfortunes would be lore
idea of personal insult to the sovereign—(cheers)--
public notoriety, it was most perilous, he said that the posi-
l
tion of France at this moment was the most difficult, and no goat nin the general burst of congratulation at the fact that
man could tell from hour to hour what the state of France
oar beloved sovereign had escaped this base attempt. (Loud
would be. He would say the same of Frankfort and Vienna; cheers') HEALTH OF TOWNS.
therefore it was that he felt how important it was that our ex-
In answer to a question from Sir W. CLAY, which was in-
tellent representatives should continue ia those countries, and
in during the preseet session,
brought bill for the metropolis
audible in the galler
therefore it was that he was more struck with astonishment, y,
or rather awe, when he found that, the fate of the empire
_Sir G. GREY said that there would be no public heelth
depending upon the vote to-night, these temporary re-
moves had been found necessary. There was something but measures were in progress, and would continue to bo
more important than trade, more important than commerce, taken, grounded on the first report of the somsiction. One
of the
fence of the country. He voted for the customs and he voted another the s y, urve With regard to the final report
more important even than wealth itself, and that was the de- was the consolidation of the cemmis,ionsof sewers, and
for the excise, though they cruelly oppressed the good people sanitary commission, he could not say when it would be