The Express.
London, England, 1851-06-07 00:00:00

gengsameet the obleetion that had been made by the Attorney-
that it wasereating an additiwwl elbow, sad ens
mgdah they might find some difficulty ia pesessatim. Wilk
wed to the introdustion of bulls or ia future, the
glee question would be, who hail them, and who!
rto put them in force ; an that MAK le very dif-
oa discover. (Hear, hear.) They Men ellen find
pan letters apostolic were printed and rahlidsed. Its
mos newspaper; but it would Weft lee desirable
Or the goventssent to cemasese a premeds.
against a newspaper, which weld only prawn
lie bells bow sews Giber swam, egd might puha thew
ger the selte of eireesersg the sews is the many. awl est
Ke asp bates peepers. &Meg these sigenisas,
tog to ache, limit, sad maim as awe as possible say
be be bests& wader this ast.—am wishing la
Cr. • 4semil the psalm law, and the spirit of the eet
OK Owego IL—he iseld certainly ewes the intrudes:t-
iles *few words sew
Sr F. MI11101111=7:11. bad alreadypeopowi mead-
Seats whisk would bane the east et extending the pro-
ration' of the bill Impend the mew deisration against the
particular rerript d inks inliand, and to make it
applicable te asp resselpt in any pert of the United King-
lie bad lowa urged not to press these amendments
as they weed interfere with those of the hos. and learned
amber be Klement ; and on that ground he had not
glassed them intending to bring them forward on the re-
port. The one now proposed met his views, r better
enabling him to introduce the further amendments on the
preamble and the report. lie should have preferred had
the amendment now before the committee been deferred till
• subsequent Wags ; but as it was now submitted, he weld
not tefuse it his support. He was anxious to explain the
grounds on which he would vote for the amendment of the
boo. baronet. It was clear they were pursuing an unsatis-
factory course if they lett the bill as at pre-
test shaped by the government. His only object
was to make the bill consistent, and he would per-
severe until be succeeded in making it so, as also in
Waking it applicable to every part of the United Kingdom.
(Hew.) He had hopes that by perseverance he would
attain that end, and obtain a bill competent to meet all the
objects they had in view as regarded all future aggressions.
(Hear.) lie considered the amendment of the hen. baro-
net a step in the right direction towards the attainment of
that object, and therefore he should support it. (Hear.)
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said he really could not
see any distinction between the clause or amendment
just submitted and that introduced by the honourable
member fur Nlidhurst. (Oh, oh.) Ile repeated the asser-
tion ; and therefore he could not see the necessity of ;Ihr:
tracted discussion on the same point. (Oh, oh.)
Isis hon. and learned friend (Sir F. Thesiger) complained
that the bill was not consistent, he would wish he hadrzlei
taken the trouble to explain the grounds on which he
that assertion. (Hear, hear.) The bill was perfectly con-
sistent without the clause sought to he introduced. It was
a bill to prevent the assumption of ecclesiastical titles. But
the clause just proposed declared it was necessary to go
further against all bulls declaring and creating ecclesiastical
titles. On these grounds lie submitted they would be going
beyond the scope of the bill in acceding to the amendment
of the hon. baronet. (Hear, hear.)
After a few word, from Mr. Ftsurtrirto,
Mr. HENLEY considered the Attorney-Oeneral was sot
warranted in averting that the present amendment was
similar to one that had been disposed of previously. (Hear,
bear.) The lion. and learned gentleman had argued as if
the whole bill were contained in the second clause, over-
looking altogether the Brat clause and the preamble. In
his opinion the clause or amendment would have this effect
—that it would make the bill prospective instead of retro-
spective, and, at the same time, would leave the existing
Mate of things Ireland untouched. (Hear, hear.)
Therefore he should support the amendment.
The SOLICITOR-OENERAL said it was desirable that
the arrangement entered into between the Roman catho-
lic and protestant parties in IS2J, should remain intact. It
formed part of that arrangement that no Roman catholic
bishop should have the titles of sees, wherein bishops of
the established church presided. Now the spirit, if not the
letter, of that agreement was violated by the late bull of
the Pope. The rescript was an invasion of that compact,
by offensively proclaiming authority and jurisdiction over
this country, which had not been known or recognised for
three centuries previously. (Hear, hear.) The present bill
resisted that aggression in this way, that it declared null
and void all acts done under that rescript or bull. If they
were now to adopt the clause of the hon. baronet they
would he, guilty of inconsistency, as they would be ex-
tending the scope of the act of 18*.N, and intro-
ducing a new principle and a new penalty. (Hear, beer.)
People might cull Cardinal Wiseman " King of Westmin-
ster' if they pleased, but the great object of this act was
to make his assumption of the title conferred by the weeirfot
illegal and void. He believed the bill would be seeing
for this purpose, and that it would be most uallietenals llf
it were now obstructed in its progress by a division anmeget
the friends of protestantism. (Hear, hear.)
The amendment having been supported by Mr. Stuart
and Sir It. loglis, and opposed by Sir 0. Grey,
The committee divided—

For tie amendment 129
Against it 133-1
The announcement of the division was received with kmil
cheers by the staunch protestant members of the house.
Col. SIBTHORP then rose to move an amendment, tha
erect of which would be to make the penalty 5001. instead,
of 1001.
No observation being made upon tl, amendment, tar
haw. divided.
For the amendment 63
Against. _ 190-1$

On our return to the gamy we hes&
Mr. O'FLAIIERTY OM Ids lop, and in the set of com-
plaining that his rights se • member had been interfered
with during the &Miss by Lord M. Hill, one of the
tellers.
Lord M. HILL said he hail no hesitation in explaining
what had occurred. There being difficulty in clearing the
house, and the chairman having requested the tellers to
clear it, he saw • group of members round the table, one et
whom wee the hon. member. He requested the les.
member to go into the lobby. The lam. member replied
that he was seeking some exidanatiom bees the ehainms ;
whereupon he (Lord M. Hill) mid he bed meek** rle
am with that, having been desired te ties brass. 4
Mr. DISRAELI said he was NMI the sale bed set
intended any discourtesy. (User, beer.)
Sir F. THESIGER said it wan inn Ids intention to tres-
pass long on the attention of the sammittee is salmiteks
the amendment of which he bed OTIS tisane. Me peeps-
'Rion was so plain and intelligible, sad fa big jsdemist so
fair and reasonable—
Mr. REYNOLDS rose to order. He wished to know
whether the hon. member could move the addition of words
then, the committee not having arrived at the cad of the
second clause
The CHAIRMAN said he had already read the con-
cluding words of the clause.
Mr. REYNOLDS—Then I beg, sir—(Loud cries of
"Order," amidst which the hon. member rememed his
seat.)
Sir F. THESIGER said he was, when baserapeed, about
to observe that he did not anticipate sash
proposition. By the 10th George IV., the peas ieeimpswd
were to be recovered at the suit of the A
llis ban. and learned friend the member fottr=ra
intimated his intention of proposing that they Mimi& abort
them to be recovered by an informer. He suggested a
middle course, that of leaving to the Atloney-C4-
neral the right which he possessed under the 10th
of Geo. IV., and, at the same time, giving the
informer the right to institute a suit, but under the
check and control of the Attorney-General. If the
Attorney-General declined to institute • suit for the
recovery of penalties, he might be applied to by my poem
wishing to institute one ; and if that person was lempeet-
able, and his motives unquestionable, it would, be theagbe,
be almost impossible for the Attorney-Gemrsi M mein Wn
sanction if good grounds were shown for tin presesulies
The advantage of his proposal was that ft left the remra-
sibility of the suit where it ought to be left—with the
government. He should now, without tank: explanation,
move the amendment now in he hands of the chairman for
the adoption of the immittee.
The CHAIRMAM then pat the creeds& that the words
proposed by the hos. and homed smoke be Mad to the
clause, to the effect that the metres or sails of the kind re-
ferred to might be tried in any of her Majesty's superior
courts in the kingdom.
The MASTER of the ROLLS maid there were statutes in
existence which enabled private peas= to institute suits
with the consent of the Attarasp-Ossmal, but it was a pri-
vilege which should be win ak& with great care ail
caution. The hon. and learned gentleman then signed
that the amendment would not bare the effect white the
mover supposed, but would reshot Winos the Attormys
General to avoid those duties sad Mime this upon ease
persons. In other words the Whet of the amend-
ment would be practically to shift the rogeselbftley bum
the Attorney-General to other gust= where kegs wen
no security for the proper exercise elks pdefte
Mr. WALPOLE observed? Mee esseerft ke law of
this moment, there was nothing te peens&•100111111111111F
lie from being an Attorney-Carmel, aid without dokkgto
throw the lent suspicion upon any Rama mks& See be
would not do his duty, it was net debt be elmil be plena
in a position in which feeling mad duty maid bed eendlet
The amendment would save him tress thee ride abeam
tire.
The ATTORNEY-GENERALpreamased the megered
amendment to be very olsieedembis The pesesso
lion ought to be • government peemeenien be
conducted by the drat law allow et the crown; and be
asserted OM whit they scums' ae lisps of infantilism
tiegrobld cake of the Attensey-General they
bim into contact will imam indmisre.
If the Wawa ve the internalise be the Met Wens*,
he week ray, ameap the Allorrosy_ Gemmel night be of
"Viable that the seeswm see to Midi he lime, lank
nodose a " what *hi harems to M_
self of my s.ulsdge end web me of the balk if Ire
descry Rear, bear," sad " Obt") Arias W the
Anensey-Oenemi did not do his duty, than was Set beim
sprmpei
oemMs is de his duty Mae WOWS. (Ze0r,...11mr.2
The =o:smed le he mode es Os
*ea ibet the meld sat de leis dab
he madame' thee wee a strew we Se sentme.
TM midtreser eemee. tbe hss. art Wm t
he e weber Ifillasakist
Os is
sight Zama tie
erdbelle. Well,
if a Zama mama Anmeerrenneel seal se he Must
hie deer ae net to LAWS a preessedies whoa it w
Ikoo bis
I•llll=imessa=ly respensaskea lbet beam.
that ire remeseeness of
On 'same was see "le st ar
timid osgesiseg awl time it wee
Animas >tie lbe mojeiny of the kw amid be via-