The Express.
London, England, 1848-03-18 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—FR7DAT. MARCH 17.
The Louw CHANCILLOR took his seat at 5 o'clock.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PETrtioN.-By the Earl of Sv. Cranes% from Devooport,
against the exemptton of peers from ,ITeSt for debt.
TUIRU READINO.-Passengers Bill.
Their lordships adjourned at a quarter past 6 o'clock.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FRTHAT, MARCH 17.
The SPEnEn took the choir at
t 4 o'clock.
PLIC BUINESS.
PETI (lONS. -By Mr. Swear, from Cockermouth, for the
substitutions of eolemn affirmation', for oaths, in legal pro.
esedings.-Mr. F. bcorr, from the Legislature of New south
Males, in favour of Inenetllel for the encouragement of
emigration to that colony, and for raising funds for that
purpose by parochial entemtuent or otherwise.-Mr. CALOR/XL
from merchants and traders of Liverpool, referring to the
late murder of English eubjects in. China, and praying for more
effectual protection for the Engltvh residents in Canton; Mr.A.lLterre,
from merchants of London, to the same Wed.-Mr. Diorrr, from
Anti-Slavery Society of Exeter, for the exclusion of elate-grown
augur.-Lord D. STUART, from Marylebone, for a revision of national
taxation, and for mating Ireland bear her fair share in the public
burdens; els> the abolition of the income tax.-M rt. 11,111,0 x, from
Meath. for amendmentof the Irish poor law.-Mr. W. Perm., from
Burnley, LantePhlre. against certain dame of the Public 'Health
Sill; Mr. CXRIPXYLD, from a plate aot beard, in favour of an efficient
bill on thiseubject.-Mr. Lrensiros, from Wsiall, against the Rating
of Small Tenements Bill.-Mr. nANIILTON, from Dublin; Mr. Cowes,
from Peebles; Mr. Ceaommu, from Liverpool, against the Diplomatic
Relations with Rome Bill.-Mr. C. W. Moons, from Newport and
other places in the Isle of Wight, for the r. peal of the legacy duty on
charitable requests..-001. SAIWX., from attorneys a Ludlow ; Capt.
Peen au., from Brighton; Mr. Writ', from tiodmin-against the cer-
tificate duty.-Dr. towervo, from Odd Fellows lodges of Somerset-
shire ; Mr. ILtrren, from a lar bndy at W ells -pr aying to be
placed on the eame footing as Ideally societies.
SECOND ItEADINO.-Law of Entail (Scotland) Bill.
TIURD READING.-Queen's Prison Bill.
NOTICES OP MOTION.-Lean Rxwvou or Tai CROWX.-Lord
DrscoN. on Monday next, to move for a select committee to
inquire into the expenditure and management of the woods and
forests and other crown revenues. and to report whether anyreduc-
Don in the expense, or other improvement, can be made in this

department.
Cliracri RATIP.—Mr. B. OSP.AXI. on an early day, to move forte...re
to bring in a bill for the abolition of church rite.
Peat ec UtrICI4L—COL SIBTHORPE, after the Enter recess to move
that the stlair..a oi all pen RAILWan
WAY ding public o
BlLLS.ffices be redo -tit.
Sir W. HEATHCOTE moved that the standing order
No. 157, requiring the breviato of all private bills to be laid
on the table eleven days before tbe second rending of such
bills, be not enforced as to railway bills suspended in the ses-
sion of 1847.—Agreed to.
DERBY ELECTION PETITION. I
The following members were sworn as the committee to
inquire into the merits of the petition against the return of
the Righ Hon. E. Strutt at the late election for the bo-
rough of Derby: Mr. Childers, chairman; Mr. W. H.
Stanton, Sir E. W. McNaghten, Mr. I'. Bennet, and Sir IL
R. F. Davie.
EASTERN ARCHIPELAGO.
Mr. BOUVERIE inquired if the government had mot
chartered a joint stock company for colonising the Eastern
Archipelago . He meant a company with which private li
123,1C11 would compete very disadvantageously and from the
prospectus of which it appeared that a person who had
figured as the agent of Mr. Brooke (Rajah of Sarawak) was
in the direction ; also whether he would produce the charter.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that a quarter had been
granted by his predecessor in office under peculiar circum-
stances, not for ordinary trading purposes, but with a view to
develop the resources of the new settlement of Labuan. It
was a charter for 21 years, and he believed there would be
no objection to lay it on the table ; but he thought it very
improbable that Mr. Brooke had any interest in the company.
CLERK-ASSISTANT 1N PARLIAMENT.
Mr. J. E DEN ISON asked whether the person who might
be appointed to this office, made viexott by recent lamented
death, would be eo appointed upon the understanding of its
being subject to any regulations that might be made respect-
ing the emoluments of the office ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the
appointment must be accepted subject to such regulation
as the proper authorities might think fit to make.
ENGLISH LABOURERS IN FRANCE.
Lord DRUBILANRIG asked if; the government had ap-
plied to the Provisional Governme.it of France to allow the
Esilith workless who, it was clear, would be expelled:from
that country, to withdraw their money from the savings
banks ?
Sir G. GREY could not say that any specific applicatioe
bad been made on the subject ; but the attention of Lord
Normanby had been directed to it, and he had made a gene-
ral representatioe to the Freaeh government. Information
bad been received yesterday that an additional number of
workmen had been obliged to leave Rouen, many of whom
bad deposit; in the saving'. banks, and who would no doubt
be seriously inconvenienced if the decree respecting these
banks were allowed to affect them.
MURDER OF SLAVES ON THE AFRICAN COAST.
Mr. Bit ILLIE asked if the government had received a
despatch from Captain Mansell, employed on the coast of
Africa, stating that some chiefs having been prevented by
our cruisers from exporting some slaves they had brought
from the intercior, thereupon murdered those slaves ; and if
so, whether that dispatch would be laid on the table
Lord PALMERSTON said that a dispatch to that effect
had been received last year, and would be included in the
slave-trade papers to be presented to parliament in the ordi-
nary course.
COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS—INCOME

TAX FOR IRELAND.
The house having gone into a committee of ways and

means,
Mr. HUME postponed until Monday his amendment
declaring it to be inexpedient to add to the taxation of the
coudtry by increasing the expenditure for thenaval, military,
and ordnance services.
Sir B. HALL then rose to mono the extension of the
income tax to Ireland, a proposition which w.s simple and
intelligible, which was well understood by people out of
doors, and which, in hie opinion, was founded upon equity
and justice. The right hon. baronet (the member fir are-
worth) said, in 1133, that it would be extremely unjust to
exempt Ireland from the operation of a property tax, it
England and Scotland were to be subjected to it, end in
twelve years after he confessed that his opinion upon the
subject was not changed, and that he then only declined to
propose its extension to Ireland because 'it was to be
temporary in its character, and because of the nou.ev;-t-
-ence :a Ireland of the necessary- machinery for carrying it
into operation. But it was now admitted on all hands 'hat
the income tax was likely to be permanent. Certainly a
tax to convenient to the Chancellor of the Exchequer was
not likely to be easily abandoned. The noble lord at the
head of the government was likewise of opinion that it was
but just to impose this tax upon Trehuvl as roll as Eng Lind.
When he recently stated so in that house, the remark ws•
received with "loud cheer. from all peels of the house.-
The noble lord, however, added thrt: :1 • .18 not the mo-
ment at which they ought to do to, and tha. observation was
described an having given rise to" bursts to laughter, and
loud cries of • oh' from all parts of the house." t A laugh.
A few days alter the noble lord stated AS a reaso.: that
Ireland was at present called on to pay 2.000,0001. for the
relief of the poor. But was it a reason that because the
lriah landlord had not for so long a pc, ie. I,airl any poor
t'sate, that now, because he did pay is, b" was
no be exempted from the income tsx . Tiodde., the
eunount of the poor-rate, even during 1t,17, the year of
famine, had been only is, 'dad. in the pound. Why, in
ordinary years, we paid more then that iu this country. lie
found that, takfng the average of the tasks unions "a
Ireland which paid the largest poundage during s period
which embraced the severest distres7, the pane-rate only
amounted to 2s. did. in the pound, tt.. highest rate being
3s. 4d. in the pound in the Clonmel union (Mr. E. B.
Roche Ler. asked a question.) That was not the amoent
struck, but the amount paid. But that was not all. There
was snareely a parish in England that had not to support
Irish paupers. Indeed, he believed he might Far that one.
kurth of out poor-rates was expended on Isiah r.:7p.:7.
The hon. geudercan, in cortobor,•!on th:. r 'd
to the work tautly written by Mr. Jonathai. P's• ;s1
he showed that the hospice! in Gl-ge ce • 'gt. el, r-;.*11 son"!
the Inmate., numbering I,ISO, were lash. Enghshmemben

had cautiously alistained from asking for a remission of
taxes during the past year, through a desire. of enabling the
government to do their utmost for Ireland ; and here he
must notice the manner in which that conduct and the or-
duct of the country generally had been received by Irish
members of that house. The hen. member for Limerick
(Mr. J. O'Connell), in answering an address presented to
him in Paris, called upon France, of all the nations of the
earth, to cry shame upon the avarice and the tyranny of
England, who first plundered his country, and then an-
swered all her supplications for assistance by utteriqg stem
' cious calumnies against her bishop' and her clergy. and by
insulting her middle classes. Ile also speke of Ireland's
misery having been brought upon by her English misrule.
Thus was the sonduct of England during the retest famine,
r when every parish in the country sent forth its contributions,
—thus was English aid appreciated by the leader of the
Irish party. (Hear, hear.) Be did not mean to say
that England had done more than her duty—she
even asked for no expression of gratitude ; but she did ask
ter this, that the censure and abuse with which she was
assailed might be stated in that house, in order that her re-
presentetives m
il ight repel it with scorn and indignetion.
(Hear, hear.) e found that England paid annually at pre-
sent nearly 12,000,0001. of taxes, from which Ireland was
exempted, namely—the income tax, 5,&56,0001.; assessed
texas, 4,479,0001. ; duty on brick% 646,000/. ; and soap,
1,193,0001. Ile might be met by saying that an income
tax in Ireland would utterly fail ; that English members
knew nothing of the condition of affairs in Ireland ; and that
no good could be done for that country without a repeal of
the union. But he was in a positfon to show that a very
large number of Irish members were of a contrary opinion.
He found that on the 6th Nov. last, at a public mee.ing held
in Dublin, a resolution proposed by Mr. S. O'Brien, and se-
eondcd by M. J. O'Connel, and declaring that an income tax
ought to be imposed on Ireland was amongst others, adopted.
Upon that occasion Lord Cloncurry was in the chair,and seve-
ral Irish members sitting on either side of the house were pre-
sent, and concurred in the propriety of an income tot —not,
certainly, for general peeper, of taxation, but in aid of the
roor rates. The member for Cork (Mr. Roche), it was only
just to say, objected altogether to the resolution, said than an
income tax was bad enough in England, and that if they
adopted that resolution, they would assuredly have some
English member rising in that house, as he (Sir B. Hall)
now did, to declare that the income tax so levied in Ireland
ought to go to the general fund, and that the landlords of
Ireland ought to be left to pay for their own poor. That
meeting, and the result to which it came, proved, at all
events, that Ireland was able to bear an income tax, and he
assumed such to be the case. He would, then, ask the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, if the medical man in England
wag to be taxed on his profits, why the medical man
of Dublin was not? Why was the merchant of Belfast,
a thriving and improving town, with hie accumulating pro-
fits, to be exempted, and the merchant of Bristol, which was
a declining town, with his decreasing profits, to be taxed ?
He would ask also why the fundholder in Ireland was not to
be made liable to the income tax as well 113 in England?
According to the returns of income tax, the coo-resident
Irish fundholders only paid 13,900?., whereas if the resident
fundholders were liable as well, there would be paid 35,0001.
in the year. It was said by some that the landlords of
Ireland were already sufficiently taxed, and that many of '
them who resided in this country paid an income tax of 3 per
cent. That might be true, but they might reside in Ire-
land
if they chose, and thus avoid the tax, so that it was
with them only a voluntary, and not a compulsory tax.
Then it bad been urged that rents could not be recovered in 1
Ireland, and therefore they ought to he exempted ; but he,
(Sir B. Hall) contended that if 1,0001., per annum wee re-
ceived they ought to pay the iucome-tax upon the actual
receipts. He believed that a great deal of money was col-
lected by the landlords of Ireland, and for that opinion he
might quote the speech of the hon. member for Kinsale
(Mr. Guinness), who on the 2nd December last stated that
on an estate of 10,6001. per annum, there had been collected
within the last ten years, upwards of 100,0001., and that in
1845 and 1846 there had bees received over and above the
rental no less than 10001. in each year to pay off the arrears.
I was, therefore, absurd to say that rents could not be col-
lected in Ireland. But they had been told that if a poor law
was established in Ireland, it would be utterly impossible to
collect it—that had always been stet d with reg mil to every
taxation proposed in reference to Ireland, and yet notwith-
standing all the opposition made to the collection of the poor
rates in Ireland, the government was doing its duty by en-
fercing the payment with great effect. Looking at this fact,
and also that the custom, duties paid in Ireland in 1846, to
the amount of 2,497,0001., and excise duties to the amount
of 1,6.52,0001., had been collected at no very extravagant coat
he thought there would be little difficulty in collecting and
income tax. On the general question, as far as regarded the
conductof Irish members, he pound that on the first division
on the income tax for Great Britain, there had voted 52
Irish members in favour of the tax and only eight against
it. On the second division the numbers were still more extra-
ordinary. The divinon was on the question of extending the
tax for a period of 3 years; and in favour of that proposition
67 Irish members had recorded their votes, while only 9 had
voted for its duration for the shorter period of one year. lf,
therefore, Irish members desired thus to saddle Great Bri-
tain with the income tax, they must not be surprised that
English members should desire to confer upon them the
same amount of favour—neither must they be surprised if
their demands for mesiatance from the imperial treasury
should in future be resisted. He for one did not wish separate
nationality, but at the same time he thought that if Ireland
called out for separate nationality, and refused to join in the
taxation to which Great Britain was made liable, she had no
right to ask the imperial treasury for further assistance.
(Hear, hear.) On the other hand, if the taxation of the
two countries was placed on an equal footing, and that the
members for Mayo, Sligo, andother destitute parts of Ireland,
came down and said, " We pay equal taxation with your-
selves, but our country has had a great infliction, we are
suffering severely tram famine and pestilence, and we desire
your aid "—ln such a case, he (Sir B. Hall) did not think
it would be right to refuse that aid ; but until
Ireland was put on an equal footing in respect to
taxation with other portions of the United Kingdom, he
should raise his voice against the grant to Ireland of an
additiodal cum for the imperial treasury. (Hear, hear.)
He hail brought forward this motion under a sense of duty, '
and he trusted he had discharged that duty with an avoid-
ance of subjects which might give rise to angry or acrimo-
nious feeline. In conclusion, he begged to move, " That
towards raising the supply granted to her Majesty, the
respective duties levied on property, profits, professions,
trades, and offices in Great Britain, be levied on property,
profits, professions, trades, and offices in Ireland fur a time
to be limited." (Rear, hear.)
Mr. J. 'WILLIAMS seconded the motion.
Sir 11. W. BARRON thought the people of Ireland had great
reason to thank the hon. baronet the member for Marylebone
for the kindness, philanthropy, and benevolence which he
had always manifested with respect to their concerns.
(" Hear," and a laugh.) The hon. baronet had raised for
himself, by his conduct towards Ireland, a name which would
be handed down to posterity in a manner unequalled
by any who had gone before him in the great history
of Europe. The founder of the family of Medicis had
been honouree by the inscription on his tomb of the words
" Pater Paine;" the great Bark had been honouree by the
designation that he was the epitome of the sublime and
beautiful ; but the hon. baronet the member for Marylebone
would be handed down by future historians tinder the
still more enviable title of " Conciliation Hall.", (Loud
laughter.) net title he deserved jour excellence, when
the time and the circumstances under which he made
the present proposition were remembered and borne
in mind, Let it not be forgotten that the motion was
brought forward at a time when the population not only
of Ireland bat of England—nay, of Europe, were in a most
excited state—when hie unfortunate countrymen were starv-
ing by thousands—when every individual, from the highest
peer to the humbles peasant in Ireland, had felt the awful
infliction with which Providence had thought fit to visit
that unhappy country—when the landlords had not received
one-fifth of their rents—iet it not be forgotten that this was
the time chosen by the hon. member for Marylebone to afflict
Ireland: with a tax with which, even in time of war, the
greatest statesman who ever ruled this country had never
thought it right to visit that country. But now, in the days
of her destitution and distress, when she was prostrate in
the dust, the hon. baronet would impose on her this odious
tax, and the day he had selected for his motion was of all
others the 17th of March. So much for the hon. baronet's
patriotism. (Hear, hear.) The day was the mere remark-
able, because he perceived from the journals of that morning
that the Irish residents in I'aris were to-day to meet in the
Place de la Concorde and to proceed to the Hotel de Ville to
compliment and to join the French republic. Though he
(Sir W. Barron) condemned the spirit thus exhibited by the
Irish residents in Pail, still he thought the fact ought to
have operated as a warning to the hon. baronet not to irri-
tate the feeliaga of the Irish people by proposing the inflic-
tion of this insupportable tax. At a time when the most
seditious language was propagated in Ireland, he must
say a most injudicious moment hail been selected
for this discussion. The speech and language of this hon.
baronet would afford ample inducement to the writers in the
railed IriSltman to breach doctrini s still more violent than
any that had yet appee.ed against tide country. The speech
would give more toed .1 the incendiary writers in Ireland
then any speech welch had been delivered during the last
ten years. But what really was the object of the motion ?
It was, in or& r to relieve Marylebone, to tax Mayo. ghibbe-
tem and the clready pauperised landlords of Ireland. Then
trax all d admitte to be odious, and the greatest etatielme
that had evc lived hod declared its inapplicability to Ire-
lend. (The hon. baronet, in support of the propositien, here
quoted extracts from the speeches of Sir Robert Peel, of Mr.,
atter-awls Boron Foster, of Mr. Gouiburn, and lastly the
report of the select committee .which sat in the yeare..lBls,
1816, and 1617.) That cemuuttee had upon it only a Irish
members out of '2l members of which tt consisted. It was
not, therefore, an Irish comniatee ; and they reported
" Your aommittec cannot but remark that Ireland has ad-
vanced in permanent taxation more rapidly then Great Britain,
notwithstandir.g the exertions of the latter, and including the
extraordinary and the war taxes."—Sereh was the ease in
1816, and he (Sir 11. W. Barron) had now a right ei show
'lst s;nce 1810 that house had done nothing to ieeange that
I relative taxntion to which the report Ce had quoted referred ;
' hut, before he did so, he mur quote from a sneeen of the
late Lord Fitzgerald, then Mr. Vesey Fitzgerald, the Chen-
miler of the Irish Evehereier e the MIN period He side,
I dope it will not now he said that Ireland has thrown the
burden on England with a view of saving herself. You
(En awl) coeiracted far her at the union en expenditure
whkli she could not meet. and she has paid up to the end of
Ithe war 78,0C1,001/. sterling e'en.: her fair share ef the
national taxation." This was the opinion of the then Chan-
°eller of thd Irish Exchequer ; and yet the hon. baronet the
member for Marylebone now amid that Ireland did not pay
snyth'ng like her share to the resources of the nation. How-
-1 eeer that might ge down in Marylebone, it could not ha-
'pm e repots the gold sense of that house or of the country. At
a cat 21 later period—vit., in Ib3o, Mr, Ploulett Thom-
nes, attorwardn 144 Sydenhain, declared that " tuition in i

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