The Express.
London, England, 1849-05-25 00:00:00

TUE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, MAY 25, 1849.

.. ~

Hr. HAWES observed that he had never mid there ert
an objeation. •
Me. RORBUCH would like er• know, then, by wheat
the Objection was entertained? If net by the Colonial
Secretary it certainly was nut by the sewage. He
would, hoarser, printed, and let the house judge
whether or not his plans were wild and futile.
He proposed that those portions of colonial territoey of which
he lied spikes should be subject to this law ; that in retard
to swain which parties wished to acquire land, it should be
had &•W N • Ms that se land should be parted with by the
saws AMON it lay within the surveyed boundaries of
Isms distinct settlemeat. Now, he proposed that
wbea a certain number of Inhabitants had been
esesised—my 10,000—the settlement should eau to be
• sesslement, and become a province' receiving then a
dad% soastitution. Neither of than steps was taken at
pressat. The *okay was left to fight its unhappy way
trough a constant series of opposition and di content at
home sad abroad before it received anythiag like
a constitution. For example, the noble lord (Hari
Grey) proposed a bill for the government of New Zee-
laad. and he vestared to my that whim this bill Ina
paned sot 20 members had read it. When the bill
was sent to the colony, the governor mid he did not like it;
and after refusing to allow any interference with his govern-
ment, the Colonial Secretary found oat that he was wrong,
and c me to parlisateat to est it to caned the bill which
he had himself "cooked " and sent out. Seth conduct cep
peered to him to be very unstateuesalike, sad it minced
that the noble lord had no clear, preconceived view of the
ease with which he we dealing. If New Zealand had bet
under the role of North America, it would not have been
the wild, unsettled, sad miserable plus that they knew it to
be. The history of New Zealand was alone *smelt to damn
the oolosial adininistraties of this country. The Island of
New Zealand, or rather the three islands, stretched in a
slanting direetioa from the north-weer to the south-east
At one end of the territory there was a missionary station,
when there was a small white population collected, partly
in eonseqeenee of the labours of the rahsionaries. Tee
large body of settlers, consistieg of about ten thoussnd
person., who were rich as compared with the other settlers,
went to Cook's Strait,. a distance of 300 miles from the
missionary station, sail theta made a new settlement.
What place did the•Colosisl•oillos select as the fittest
essillease fir (hi goverodr? Instead of sending him
Memel es* wealthier 'settlers they seat him to the north,
awe* the small body in the inissiciaary settlement. Then
with awl Is the esquisitiod of land, the New Zeeland Com-
11111,101bruitt land of the abwigines, the government
et
MEW sail " Ws doe's like this title, you shall not have
the hind so mereired." The quarrel want oa —he scarcely
dsoe teak whether it was yet settled—but this he knew, that
it copped sll chance or impuvemeat in the colony for
years, aid all this was because there was no regular law on
the subject. He admitted that it would be best fur the
government to pnpoee what was requisite, but if the
government neglected its duty Fiore individuals must
•upply their place, and it was not fair for
the colonial office to lay "we will neither do this
ours Ives na let you do it." When the governor
west out to New Zealand he quarrelled with everybody,
incladthg, of wane the New Zealand Company ; sad the
savages being initneeill by the Durso pursued to decline that
they had not sold the land, war, confusion, and bloodshed
followed, and very valuable lives were lost, sad all because
of the want of providence os the part of the C slociel4
He (Mr. Roebuck) sat upon the committee appointed to in.
Testiest' the affairs of New Zeeland. We was not sparing in
fault•findieg ; but he observed that the noble lord now at
the heed of the Colonial-office approved of almost every hard
word that he used. When the noble lord_ became a

amber of the government, all his vat died away;
his perapicasity at faalt-finding was no longer ex-
hibited, and though there had been a great flourish
of cortitutioo-making, he confered that he did not know
what system now prevailed in new Zealand, and he was con-
fident the settlers did not. (Hear, hear.) With regard to
Canada, it was said some time ago that there must be no rule
with regard to that colony, as everything was going on de-
lightfully. What bad bra the result of the attempt to
swamp the Lower Canadians ? He recollected telling the
thatnek c eseui.h.wouoludldunttliwaitthththee veadtemist
jhoorui of years
the Fa 1;
cratie party in Upper Canada, and that, instead of securing
their object, they would find tnesselves overwhelmed by •
power which they could not con•rol. The event correspond-
ed with the redietion. They always looked to immediate
and presdeg difficulty, instead of looking ahead and laying
down a rule by which future diffienalties might be avoided. He
proposed at once to convert oar North American colonies
into a federal union, by which means they would increase
the number of their colociets as fast as the Americans were
increasing theirs; and he would observe that that very
territory of Oregon which had been given up by this
c matey to the United States, was now being ra-
pidly settled, and graben now represented in Cooper
• territory which a few years ago was supposed to belong to
this country. He might be told that he was seeking to pre-
pare the way for the independence of Cartels. Hs acknow-
ledged it. (Hoar, hear.) The time would come when Cs.
nada must be independent; but he wished to peeper her
for becoming independent amicably instead of by war, in
order that she might afterwards be the natural ally of this
country and a counterpoise to the United States (Hese,
hear) How did he propose to effect this object? Iu
• very simile manner. The boundaries of Upper and Lower
Canada should be defined; and it was one of the mast rte
makable circumstances connected with our colonial domi-
nion, that the boundaries of no province were at this moment
sotled—unless, indeed, the boundaries of Nova Scotia and
New Brunswick Mood ere exception. He would have the
nounderir of Upper and Lower Canada minutely defined;
he would have a governor of the federal union, who thoult
go sat from England. The appointment of the governor
was the only tie they could retain ; every other must be re.
signed, if they hoped to retain their colonial empire. The
r•v.:rnor being sent out from this country. each separate
state should send its members to represent it, and
form a legislative trembly. He would then have
the separate provinces represented as they were in the
House of Representaives in the United States, in what
should be considered as the united legislature of the pro
vinces. He might be asked how such a plan oonsisted with
union with this country ? He wee convinced that the mo-
ment the colonists saw that they formed a large coo federa-
tion they would acciluire these feelings which belonged to
every man who be °aged to a nation. In the set of
parliament which be contemplated he should pro-
ceed first for the regulation of settlements, the localities
of such settlements being North Amer:ea, South Africa,
Australasia, and New Zealand ; he should next provide for
the constitution such settlements, when of sufficient popula-
Soo, into provinces, ate!, thirdly, for the arrangement of
these roviacee into confedemeed unions. The placing such
a statute as this on the books would remove the grand
difficulty which now impeded the due colonisation of our
possessions bsymod the Atlantic and the Pacific; with this
new Magna Charta before him, the emigrants from these
shores would no longer, as new, be deterred from trays-
(ening their energy and their capital to Mae
possossions, by the fear of depredation, but would of pre
erence seek them, with the fall expectation of rising by
degrees into a great sommaity, and (diming behind them
children proud el the toes from whence they sprang ; such
colonies as these maid be our plory and our story, whereas
our colonies, as hitherto constituted. had been timer with-
out exception, a humiliation, a shame, and • difficulty to
Eagles& Tbe hon. gentleman concluded by moving for
lame to being in a bill for the better government of certain
of oar colonial pcsegessicios.
Mr. HAWKS said that the views which his bon. friend
had with his characteristic ability and straiplithrwardness
now put forward, having just bees detailed by him
in a publieation which no doubt most hoe. members and a
considerable portion of the public out of doors had read, It
would not he necessary to deviate, in this ease, from the rule
of late acted upon by the house—that, namely, of desling on
its first introduction with the principle of any measure not
likely to meet the concurrence of the house upon a second
reading. It was, therefore, from no disrespect to his hon.
friend that he should oppose his bill at this earliest stage. He
fully concurred with his hon. friend that it was swing the
highest ad noblest functions that a streams could exer-
cise to administer wisely and well the vest colonial empire
which we poseessed ; but he by no roans took the same
view with his hon. friend of the state and condition of our
coloaies—(hear, hear)—he did not regard them uat all s
source of humiliation or diagram, to se, or to the
colonists thecoselve•—(hear, hear)—os the contrary,
he viewed man of these reat colonies as gm.
&tally rising iny to the condition of future sties,
that would hand, down our name, our language, and our in-
stitutions with honour to posterity. (Hear, hear.) in many
of the great principles of colochatieu, upon whisk there bad
of late been suck controversy, he wee glad to find his hon.
friend concurring with bfm. His hon. friend, for example,
did not propose to alter the colonial adminirration of this
empire • he proposed, indeed, hereafter to limit it, action by
the introduction of a more perfect system of self govern-
ment, but with this limitation he would leave the general
colonisation as it now meted. His hon. friend also pro-
posed to remove from the emenl legislative authority of
the crown the soloaial legWaturee ; he proposed, in oppcsi-
Con to some resent theories, to maintain perfect, and even
to multiply our colonial possessions. Another principle in
which the government practically coucoreed with his
hon. friend woo that large colonies should, when
really expedient, licidivided into provinces, governed by a
ruled eeeee legislature. The government Weedy acted upon
this principle. (Hear, hear.) His hon. friend aho preposed
to minted° a civil list of a certain amount in our colonies,
for the government and judiefary. So far his bon. friend
simply concurred in that which already existed witoout any
new legislation. He quite with his hon. friend that
it should be en object with eeeodlonial government to facili-
tate the formation of new se tiements, and to carry
our, as largely se possible, in those already formed
the principle of self-sdrmistration. In the new
principles advocated by his hon. Mend, however,
he could not concur. The proposed bill called upon
the 8 cretary of State, upon the requisition of any set of
persons, to form • settlement, in any particular spot they
might select in the four possessions to which he referred :
North American provinces, South Atria, Australis, and
Newand witho anyith sort of reference to existing interests and
rights. (Hear, hear.) His hon. friend did not say a word,
in the first place, as to the fund out of which the heavy
earns, of merging out the bound.riee and preparing the
stimealsmedhtio rhealvueirLdidewalolf t°thebelengPtihid—ol(tinuf''ear. whhicffi"r)—thanosed
preliminaries most needs occupy. His hon• friend's first I
reference was to our North American provinces. Where, in
these provinces, did his hon. friend mean to flu his colonists ?
In Prince Eiward's Island he would find a virile+ thousand
acres available st all ;in Nova Scotia. none; New Bruns-
wick, all the land had been entrusted to the local govern-
ment, end to interfere with this arrangement would be an
utter breach of fella. (Hear, hear.) The land in Canada
had been placed by the British legislature and the British
crown entirely under the control of the local legislature.

ILL bon. friend bad hued his views of eoleeriestins
upon an alleged Awakes analog,; them vas no *"l°°'
is themes. Colonissoica in the United States had fur the
meat pert bees the grades! process of one state overflowing
into •c•Wbbosring sate, the distance travelled by the r.lo-
nets being mud' and the difficulties oompargavely slight.
Cobol:sties tress England had lc en the promos of men un-
:SI the
ye* decigram, expensive, and slow precede of eon-
" °walle end their families 10,000 mite or 12.000
from their friends and their native land across either
0081 a to the estrereity of the earth. His hoe.
Mead spoke of the increase of population in the
Deka filets es affoeding a tact reflecting great
dimwit the management of the Canada*.
lathe left =l. if it were the feet that the population
et
dm Whet NW, had increased so mach more in proper-
eisa Oh= the theuthe, there would be no sack test aa the
hem. Ipandemen eamidered ft ; het, in the soloed place, the
past vat the tan way. es aura by his km. frised's own
arm. /Yes 17116, *AI his lion friend, the population of
die Hethid Ikon baehamessdto 23,000,000 from 3,000.000,
wham that of Canada luessaly ineramed to 2.000,000 from
InsirWell, what did them Saves show ? Precisely, that
c., loused the of Canada bad inammal
ter while that of the sited Bates bed only incensed
ethaightt-thte repose?: 'el iliaa
llskaasit.Aeftefdorieslithatiwiotnel
the practical ,salt--would he aseepeabie I. Cant ? (Hear,
hear.) Did he suppose that it would be a popular menace,
throughsas the premises, ones nee making Lower Canada
• squab peeethea,. to invest her with that entire Goa-
Mel aril levier me the navigation of the St. Lawrence,
width Nei Ism gee of the may grievances that led to the
tenelien glebe penelmses ? (Hear, hear.) His hon. friend
smote Hacksaws Bay Company's territories : would be
wwf=6
settime to occupy any portion of these terrier
occupy
smut of, without even consulting—for se
it would seem he contemplated—the company who bad those
territories under solemn charter? (Hear, beam) As to the
satins, hie hon. friend seemed to take no heed whatever of
then. He dealt with that queries, altogether on the Anse-
rime principle, that the title of the Indian was at once ex-
timplabsi hy'the advance of the American. (Hear, hear.)
His thisellen to the proposed bill was peamieal, and could
set be overcome by any alteration in the details, and, therc
ton, he felt the hater ermine to be to meet it at the outwit
with a direct negative. There was one otter remark
.be
would make. Suppers. the plan in climatic- it weak be
in the power of iedivitheals--without the authority of the
crown, to timed and multiply the settlements of the empire.
Now, he was one of those who was disposed to think that
England pow-ea a sufficient number of colonial settlements
already, and that it would be wiser to endeavour to improve
those we had, to direct capital to them, and take measures for
developing their resources and establishing their prosperity
then to extend their numb: r. But suppose these new settle.
mints should not eseemed supposing they were not
found able to support themselves, how were they to
be maintained They meet appoint government
caws, and incur other expenses in surveying and
mirk* oat boundaries and other provisions rosemary in
forming a new settlement ; end, supposing the settlement
unable to maintain itself, thou expenses must be provided
from imperial resources. (Hear.) And, from our expo-
rienos in colonieatioa—even in the most us settle-
ments—unless such assist: ma was previd is their earlier
stages, they could not prosper. In South Australia, our most
prosperous settlement,- it had been found neocaary to ad-
vance a gainer of a million in the first instasee; but haviag
been established by inch assistance, it had lime gone on in-
ereesing in prosperity and in wealth, until it had become
one of the most valuable colonies we possessed. (Hess.) But
he contended that the view the hon. and learned gentleman
took of Our COtOSIOS wee an unjust oar—that ear Australian
colonies bad not prospered under the system of government
which had been pursued towards them. He (Kr. Hewes)
on the contrary contended that in material wealth, freedom,
intelligr nee, security, and all that constituted prosperity,
those colonies had gone on progressing in a marked degree.
Lack at New ZesUnd, already it paid the expenses of
its government. Port Phillip, a mill-meat erehlished
in some degree on the American model, also had
been eminentiy successful; end taking all these colonies
—(he did not ask them to give any credit to the Colonial-
office for it ; for it might be if they pleased, in spite of the
Coluial-office)—(hear, he ar)—taking them altogether, he
must distinctly say—and their statistics would prove it—that
during the last ten or twenty years, a most remarkable ad-
vencehad taken place in them to regard to all the elements
of material prosperity. (Hear.) He might say, also, that
he anticipated a still further advance in the prosperity of our
colonies—he was not now touching upon the sugar colonies—
( orotectioniet sheen)—yes, he understood that cheer, and
was prepared to show that those colonic* were more injured
by monopoly then by the measures recently istreduced by
the 'government, and which had been confirmed by the
Imago but he was saying that be anticipated a
still further advance in the prosperity of cur colonies
when the principles of self-government and s. lfedepend-
enc. were more fully understood and carried out.
He bad stated his reasons for oppoiing the introduc-
tion of his hon. and learned friend's measure. That opposi-
tion wax grounded on no desire to resist a change when any
change shout.' be found necessary, but on the ground of the
imprmticability of the plan. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. ANSTRY complained that the bon. gentleman's
speech was a complete misrepresentation of the proposition
of the plea of tae hon. and learned member for Shef-
11Md. Bury objection which the hoe. gentleman bad
advanced referred to the mere details of the bill, and might
be omisidered at a future stage. He believed that the
gr at objection to the present bill was, that it would dc
:Mu the Colonial-office dame of the power and influence
they now preseced.
Mr. ICGREGOR was delighted that the old system o'
protection wee to be ahardoned in caul to the West India
islands, believing, as he did, thee they would be more pros-
perous without it than with it. He did not agree with the
plan of the hon. and learned member for Sheffield, as it
would apply to Canada. He considered that it would 1 s
most unwise end unjust to interfere with the power of self-
government which had been given to the lower provinces,
where the prosperi•y bad been as great as the circumstances
would admit oL In his opinion. if anything had tended to
prevent the progress of New Brunswick, it had been the
protection to the timber trade, whim had drawn the minds
of the people from the cultivation of the soil. Nova Scotia,
with • much worse climate, and far inferior nmural
advantages then New Brunswick was In a much more astir
factory state. Oar North American colonies now possessed
AI the advantage of responsible government together with
perfect free trade to the United Kingdom, end he believed
they were in • far better position than they could possibly
he under any other system. With regard to Canada and its
annexation to the Untied Staten, he did not believe that any
desire for such s tion existed in the colony.
Mr. NEWDEGATE opposed the bill.
Mr. WYLD promised to support the mo'ion, believing
that if ever there was a scheme which tended to unite the
enamel of the imperial government with the system of local
'-c-'ration of colonial affairs, it was that of the hon. mem-

her for SkeM-Id.
Mr. AGLIONBY, amid loud cries of " Divide," also
upposted the motion.
Lead J. RUSSELL begged to ata'e shortly what he con.
soloed to be conclusive ablutions against the motion. He
gave the hon. member for Sheffield credit t r the ability his
speech displayed, and for the large and comprehensive outline
it afforded of what be considered should be the government of
the colonies. But when the actual proposal was, that by an art
of parliament fixed rules were to be laid down, by which all
the colonies were to be governed, by which they were to die
pose of 40 different colonies, of variouskiads, in various penis
of the wort .1, he (Lard J. Russell) owned that he could net
bet fed appalled at the magnitude and boldness of the
proemial. The first objection to it was, that with
tepid to certain of these colonies, it would intenders verb
rights they possessed by act of parliament, and which, for
anything we knew, they were not ready to surrender.
(Hear, hear.) The hon. and teethed gentleman had talked
of the " mischievous meddling " of the Colonial-rtfice—a
sort of cant phrase which some persons were constantly in
the habit of using, not well knowing what they meant by
such words, and which he was sorry to hear adopted by a
gentleman generally so accurate and precise in his language
as the hon. member for Sheffield. Was it mischievous that
the Colonial-office, which we., in other words, ore
d her Majesty's secretaries of state, should forwald
a duparch to a governor—that the governor and legislative
assembly should send home a remonstrating despatch, end
that another decpsteb should be sent out setting matters to
rights. removing the grievance, and meeting the wishes of
the col,cnists ? But If a majority of parliament were to
meddle and lay down its rules with moult* tbegovernuamt
of these colonies. end the colonies bend that the rules
interfered with the just rights conceded to thus, let the
house in that case consider the evil which would the. ensue
of bringi?g forward other acts nf parliament to renouneeerhat
had prevalently been claimed. Be an act of IPS the powe) was
surrendered to the provinces of Upper and Lower Canada of
deslieg with the hereditary rights of the crown, the crown
lends up. to that period having been placed at the disposal of
her Majesty. The hon. member for Sheffield, however,
proposed to abrogate aid abolish the rights then atknow-
trepi le the legislature of Canada, sad to Interpose rules of
kis o en. Why, the dioontent that would arise on finding
Vat their authority was set aside would be exceedingly
To Intent. (Hear, hair.) Then the hon. gentleman
pro msed some solar divisions of Canada besides those
which now evicted, and that in a certain manner
and in certain contingencies other provinces of British
N ath America *milt be united in a confederation with Ca-
nada. This was not a new suggestion. It war one which
had occupied the attention of Lord Durham, but the pre
veiling mown of many best acquainted with the subject wa
•
that the phys:cal difficulties were so greet that there could
not be a legislative union between the provinces of Canada,
Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. What mischief, then,
might rot be produced by laying down in an act of parliament
that that union must take place whether the provinoes like
it or not, or whether or not it would destroy their
self-government? (Hear.) He contended that parliament
ought not to legielate on questions of this nature without
consulting the colonies in the first instance, because It would
be manifestly unjust to deprive them of rights which we had
acknowledged, and to do this without the slightest consulte-
r:on with them. (Applause.) But supposing the scheme to
be good for the North American colonies, could it be
carried out exsc'ly for Australia or Africa? If it were
a meanie affecting matters at home there might be
no obje.tioo, at all events, to its introduction ; but it re-
lated to a subicet upon which tampering amid not
be allowed. If the Colonial office could not deal with
colonial questions, let the utopia government
ford
placed in other hands ; but it would be most difficult
nati
ggvity
of the members oft house to unde rt,as
sue-ted. As at present, the hasovernment pr poseaked itcer-
tain meuures from time to time se they considered most
advilahle; those measures were 'dude the suhject•matter of
inquiry in that house; anti if they were considered ineffec-
tive they were ansured. He was convinced that that
was the best mode of legislation, and that if the

bill of the hon. member f r Sheffield were allowed t"
be introduced, the colonists would suppose that the bona.
was about to adopt the scheme, and their minds world be
disturbed at hearing of the great charges that were con-
templated. (Hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE felt it his duty to give his vote against
the noble lord on the present email's. The noble lord bad
se if the definitive principle of the seesaws to the
extent were to be adopted, if it were permitted to be
dale tweed, althotuth admitting, at the same time, that if it
MN a Ritter of miner consequence, he would not be Jodie-
posed Mopermit the bill to be laid on the table, reservion to
himself lie right to form a jadgment of its merits, wh n
he harm more fully acquainted with its details.
He abseil be mach dispooad to invert the doctrines of the
aside led be that respect. As a general rule it was a mound
ems Mew* the introduction of a bill the second reading
• whide mato be opposed; but the positive objections of the
SIMS kid he considered not sufficient at this stage of the ques-
ta:M. He dated that the hon. and learned gentleman proposed
to intifille with the privileges granted by different acts of
parliament ; bet he (Mr. Gladstone) thought the noble lord
bad mimandercood the bon. and learned gentleman in that
respect. If the bill were to make its way to
a committee, no doubt it would be passed in such a
form as not to interfere with any colonial privileges.
He agreed that it would be matt unwise to deal with our
colonies. infinitely various as they were, upon any principle
of uniformity. But he understood the hon. and leaned
gentleman to begin by admitting that there were many ex-
ceptions to the principle he proposed to lay down; and
when they came to deal with his bill it would be competent
for them to enlarge thole exceptions if they thought
right He felt indebted to the honourable and learned
gentleman for having given his thoughts • upon the
gaieties to the public, and he wished to encourage
him in bringing those thotahts in a more defined shape
before the house. If he thought his principles uninsund be
would undoubtedly oppose himself to the first step of his
progress ; but, speaking generally, be believed the hon.
and learuad gentleman's doctrines to he sound and tine,
and that his views waled subdantially conduce ter
the glory of England, and the prosperity of all over whim
she held sway. His views reepeeting the establialileg .er
federal governments might, and probably would, he ihniai
impricable of attainment, unless slowly ; still they mimeo
g ed and sound, and offered so possible a -solution or eery
difficult problems, that he was induced to urge him forward,
that hie plans might be considered by the house. So far
from suck • mine being injurious, ft would only be thaw-
nant with that pursued by the noble lord himself respecting
Canada, when he introduced a bill and announced
his intention of not pressing it till the follow-
ing maim, that it might be discussed in the mean
time in Canada. He supposed the honourable and
learned gentleman had no expectation of passing a bill this
session ; tout he thought its being laid on the table would
tend to give a direction and tens to the public mind, and
after being considered in the colonies" would thing material
aid from thence in the way of suggestions when they was
prepared practially to sperm& the question. It was from
no opposition to any minister or policy ;but because the plan
of the hon. gentleman contained may outlines which pro-
mised to be useful to the country, that he felt disposed to
encourage his bon. friend by supporting his motion.
Mr. V. SMITH said that as the right hon. gentleman
supported the motion without wishing it to be supposed he
assented to the entire plan of the hon. and learned gentle-
man, so he (Mr. Smith) in opposing the motion by no means
wished it to be understood that he disapproved of the entire
plan. But he opposed the introduction of the bill for the
reason advanced by the noble lord, which he considered
conch l's.

Mr. ADDERLEY gelid, that there wan a general feeling
throughout the country that some great change in the colo-
nial system was imperative, and the answer had generally
been, simply the statement that Earl Grey was ■
gond minister. The country was not satisfied
with that answer. The hon. and learned gentleman com-
plained of the hon. member's proposal, because he looked
upon it as a compulsory measure, and as if the rights of
eioloni-s now eliding were to be interfered with ; but this
was not the case. The evil which it was sought to remedy
was of universal admission. lie hoped the bill:would be
allowed to be laid on the table of the house, that they might
see the way in which it was intended to carry out the plan._
rte. in rejiTTard he thought that thege7—
noble lord and the right hon. gentlemen had hardly dealt
fairly with him. In the first place, he was pretty sure they
did not etudentaod his plan ; they had misconceived it. He
said that because the y had misstated it ; for he was sure they
could not have misstated it if they had conceived it. The
noble lord had stated that he (Mr. Roebuck) propmed •
plan by which he was ebour, by act of parliament, to in.
vade rights already established by act of parliament. That
was a gre.t mistake on the pert of the noble 1 rd. What he
proposed to do was, not to take from ex sting rights, but to
put them into a lucid order, to consign them to parliament,
end, by these means, obtain a g al rule for
future conduct. (Hear, hear.) He thought them was
no necessity to tamper with the rights that e'id exist;
no propose' of his would temper with existing rights in any
manner. Therefore the nctle lord cid him an injustice in
stating these things, and not allowing him to do what he in-
tended. The noble lord had, in times put, not tampered
with existing rights, but utterly and completely abolished
them. He had heard the noble lord propound a bill to do
away entirely with the constitution of Lower Canada. Ile
did away with the constitution of Upper Canada. Ho
united the two Canada.. lie (Mr. Roebuck) did not pro
pose anything of the sort, and no single tight wculd be in-
vaded by his proposal in Canada, in any portion
of North America, or in any of our colonies.
When it was supposed he applied a general rule for a not
homogeneous colony, he was entirely mistaken. lie con-
ceived that the eelonies were entirely identical. You were
dealing with English going from England to form settle-
ments in a wild country ; they took with them the habit.
and feelings of their own country, and all that he asked fur
was to give thaw some determinate rule, when they lett this
country, so as to enable them to conduct themselves in the
country which they adopted as their own. He did not pro
pose to be able to propound so large and comprehensive •
pith at once. He was willing to leave the matter in the
hands of the house; they must decide. We all knew what
a condition our colonies were in ; he had no hopes of a ge.
nen' rule being propounded. We had been colonising since
1606, and we were now only beginning to do the same
thing. His hon. friend had been guilty of making great
mistakes in the beetiereceedinge of the colonial office as to
the colonisation of Vancouver's Island. He must solemnly
protest against one statement, that Eegland had possessions
enough. England had not more than enough. Wnat he said
was that England could not make upon this vut globe too many
habitations, and it out of her besom there migkt come
thousands, whilst only one man should be instrumental in
Ithe enlargement of her liberal race, in the spread of her
liberal institutions, of her language and literature—who
should multiply the English over the floe of the globe—that
man wou d not only deserve well of his country hut cif his
kind. He had that pride in his countrymen which led him
to thick that they could not be introduced too often to other
countries, and could not make too many happy CG1121111101!iff.
The house divided.
Far the motion
Against it
UNION OF PARISHES.
Mr. FREWEN moved fur leave to bring in a bill to em
power justices of the peace to unite parishes into distriste,
and to arixint a surveyor of highways to each district. The
hon. gentleman said he would defer his statement of the ob
jects of the bill until the second reading.
Leave given.
EXCLUSION OF STRANGERS.
Col. THOMPSON moved—That this house will tette into
its consideration the rule or practice whereby strangers have
been excluded on the motion of any sines membea, w th •
view to alter the same ; so that a motion for the exclusion of
strangers shall be made and seconded, and question there-
upon be put, as is the practice with other motioes."—
He said that such vetce had of late become rather com-
mon ; it was therefore desirable to consider whether such
• power was of advantage to the public. He was unable to
onceive any such case, nor had he been succeeded in dis-
covering any precedent. It was most important that the
house should keep up in the country the prevailing opinion
as to the wisdom of parliament ; and he trusted that acme-
thing would be done to prevent the repetition of what was
generally felt to be an evil.
The motion being seconds cl,
Sir G. GREY said the question was one of such import-
ant* that it could hardly the n be disposed of in a few sen-
tence's. The time might come when an alteration would be
thought deli-able, but he hoped that would only be done
after very full consideration. Probably the hon. and gallant
member would withdraw his motion, with a view to its
being brought forward at an earlier period of the evening,
when a full discussion might take place.
Lord H. VANE suggested that the motion should be
altered, for the appointment of a select committee to con.
eider the question.
Mr. AGLION BY should be sorry to see the matter re-
ferred to a committee, as it would be tantamount to a gene-
ral postponement. Considering that a portion of the strae-
gers were the most etluable part, so to speak, of the house,
and that they discharged their duties in the most unexcep
Soluble manner, he thought it highly desirable thet some
decision should now be come to, were it but to determine
that strangers should not be excluded, except upon a MVACD
duly seconded. (Hear, hear.)
The gallery WWI cleared for a division, but the motion wan
afterwards withdrawn.
INCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND) BILL.
ten this, the first order of the day,
The SOLICITOR GENERAL moved that the bill be
recommitted, with a view to the introduction of certain
unerdeneets, which he had promised to make when the bill
wan in committee.
The house having gone into committee, the clauses on
which amer.dmente were proposed, were gone through, and
the amendments added.
In answer to Col. Dolma—
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL clad that he should not
propose the third reading of the bill before the tth of Jute,
in which interval there would be sufficient opportunity for
the toned. raiion of the amendments.
The house then roamed.
LANDLORD AND TENANTS BILL
On the motion that this bill be read a third time,
Crlonel SIBTHORP moved that it should be read a 0, rd
time that day six months.
The house divided,
For the amendment .. 16
Against it 59
The bill was then read a third time and pseud.
TIRE SHORTENING OF THE DURATION OF
PARLIAMENTS BILL.
Tilit wasr th
rend first
of
tuneieme and ordered to boreal
second fa
on li
the

•

GRAND JURY CESS (IRELAND) BILL.
This ball was read • third tine end ps•srd.
Tae house theta adjourned at a quarter to I o'..lteit.

SHORTENING TIM DURATION OF PARLIAMENTS.--MF.
Locke Kin, paired o 8 in favour of Mr. D'Eyncoutt's motion
wish Mr. Mines Gaek•ll.

VOTE By BALIOJT.—Mr. Grenville Berkeley paired off la
favour of tkis proposir ion with Mr. Moldy.

ght erisreoo*

OUTGOING MAILS.

Kalb far Width emu, will W
tam% up this emahar.
The oldie I,X Vito Opueto Lisbon, Madeira, WI; and Gib.altar,
will be made up on the morales of the 27th of May.
the West lathe Maus Locludlng berreaus, damums. Nana;
demeans, New Orleans, serl Mexico, awl miming them for
Madeira, St. Jaers4mtaeorames, New Greases, Chili, and Fen,ilt
se matte up oa the mordas of the hut June.
The malls he afroteirs. the {Meads, and Buenos Ayres, will be mark
upon the emaieg al dm Mb diva%
Tile male. pie lasneales, to um Meditennese, Emu, Cryto
Jane.
ladle, Hamplirram dm, will beside up onthe cents; of the 17th of

►he mils ler Gibraltar, Malta. Greece, the Icahn Islands, Egypt.
vials, Orrice, led* Flaw-Kong, and CLoa, via notthaml•ton, wW
be made up ea the 10th ofJuee.

MOH WATIA AT LONDON MOOS.
Two. D 44 —Warofte M AN. ems 3: Afeevonao. ID =N. ps 4
TAg4.134.-11421,184h441/41A.Not 4; Lbarawa. fW. pea 4

LONDON, FRIDAY, MAY 25.

Tag debate last night upon the ballot, if deba'e it
can be called, took the form of anecdote. The hon.
and gallant mover expatiated on the ahus. of the
elective system by the Bristol tories. Mr. Joni:
WILLIAMS gave the re salts of his own experience in
Maryla bone, and of a fiend's in Westminster, and told
the houses tale about Cardigan,a boron which seems
peculiarly adapted to illustrate the workings of " our
representative system." Mr. OR ANTLEY BERKELEY
was eloquent abount his brother's misdoirga in
Gloucestershire, and Mr. Fox about the influence of
corruption on the 'rinds of candidates and electors,
who entertain a sense of the infamy of c irrupt prac-
tices. The members of her MAJESTY'S government,
had any of them spoken, would, no doubt, have added
to them illustrative examples of the necemity of the
ballot, fom the multi of their own varied experience
among different classes cf constituencies.
But her Majesty's ministers did not speak. No
one of them ventured to say a word either for:or
against Mr. HENRY Thourgust's motion. As each
succeeding speaker sat down some member of the ad-
ministration was expected to rime. Every eye was
directed to Lord JOHN. There was a pause—a cry
of " question," and then up got some one else. What
is the meaning of this ? Was it merely the preMer's
compassion fur members who had not dined, or had
he taken a alimpo into tie future before. coming
down to the house, and calculated that his consistency
would be best maintained by silence ?
The tortes, of coiner, said nothing. They had no-
thing to say. The arguments against the bAlot are,
in point of fact, on their last legs ; or, rather, they
re at now upon a single miserable crutch. Sir HARRY
VERNEY, who was the only 'speaker last night against
the motion, admite t t'st, were it not for a single
consideration, he should be much Inclined to give the
b allot his support. The " single a noideratioo" was
sae that be appeared to think it difficult to meet:
toe responsibility, namely, under which a voter
!abours m administering what ought to b 3 e a sidered
an important public trust. Ilu• let as pat a qacetion
to Sir HARRY VERNEY. "To whom is the Ripon
siblity owing ?" Sir HARRY, no doubt, has
his answer pat. It is a perfectly consti-
tutional reply it even borders so much
on radicalism, that he rather wonders we should put
a question which should elicit it. " The responei-
h,lity," he says, " in due to the non-electors—to the
non-eleetora of coarse." But then, Sir HARRY, we
put you upon the horns of this dilemma—take your
Awe cf them. If the non-elector is not capable of
fuming a good opinion about politic., what respun-
-RAN r is owing to him ?—if be is capable, why
should he not himself be invested with the fray chile ?

The strongest point which was made in last night's
d bate was 11r. Fox's appeal to the hotter, no repro-
sere ing the gentlemen of England? " Are you con-
ten'," said he, " with this demoraliz;ng system, are
you content to wa?e through a flood of corruption to
the honours of reprisentation—are Sou satisfied
that the poor should regard yon u t miners
and corruptors, rather than as friends and sup-
porters?" "Yon complain," said he, " of secrecy ; but
with whom rests the responsibility and the fault but
with yourselves, who make secrecy essential to the
bet tr ?" It could hardly happen that this
appeal should not tell upon some, at least, of " the
first body of genii !min in the world." It is true that
the majority of them are personally obnoxious to the
appeal; but among the in there are those wle,se con-
scit noes are not altogether callous.
The question cf the ballot seems to us to rest row
ent'rely with the whigs. The protectionists are, of
course, limns ble to appeals to reason, common
sense, or political prudence. Against theca alone the
question might be carried without difficulty. In 1842,
when they were united, they were within a short dis-
tance of being beaten on this question. The whigs
in those days, as Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY showed
last night, wete almost unanimous in voting with the
radicals in fivour of this motion. A dozen members of
the government, most of whom will no doubt b! found
in the list of last nigh majority, were then counted
supporters of the ballot. But the whigs in offioe are
different men from the whigs in opposition. " A tory
in disguise," said Mr. DISRAELI upon ore occasion,
" they call me, gentlemen, a tory in disguise. But I
will tell you who is a tory in disguise— it, is a whig
in place'
These " tories in disguise " last night defeated the
motion for the adoption of the ballot. We must see
them in their real character—out of office and in op-
position to their hereditary tory foes—ere we can
hope to carry this question, although it has so
.trongly the sympathies and good wishes of the
nation.

THE news from Ceylon ought to strike ministers
with a sense of shame and remorse. The appoint-
ment of Lord TORRINGTON to govern that de-
pendency was an unpardo-able act of nepotism,
which the reckless efforts made to screen his blun-
ders and delinquencies have rendered still more
iiffermive. He has now, however, brought matters to
such a pass, that it can scarcely be imagined the most
clannish of his patrons can deny the necessity for his
recal.
No man ever entered upon the discharge of a
governor's duties under more favourable auspices
than Lord TORRINC.ToN. His prefecessor in office,
Sir COLIN CAMPBELL, ft brave soldier a-d tumour-
able man, belonged rather to the last than the present
century. His removal was felt to be a relief. The
most favourable accounts of his successor had teen in-
dustriously transmitted to Ceylon, and had prepos-
sessed all classes in his favorer. The inhabitants
were led to exprct a scientific agriculturist, a man of
business who had won golden opinions as a railway
director, a ata'esman who had earned the approbation
of Earl GREY. Every class of the community re-
ceived him with clirdial respect. The merchants
waited upon him as soon as he lender], to request
hie presence at a banquet given in the Exchange, in
honour of the occlude n.
Now, he has not a single friend or supporter on the
island. It is no secret, that even at the council board
he is isolated and at feud with Lie former creatures.
The lattices hive in seine parts been goaded to riot
and in-urrection. The Burghers (nativo descendants
of Europeans), notaithstanding their hostility to
the aborigines, have been compelled, in sslf-
defence, to assume en attitude of opoosi
ion
to the goverrmenr. The merchants end planters
are to a man complaining of oppressior, regleet, and
insult, from the govermr. Even the temporising at el
the official organs of she island pries+ have found it
neoesstry to turn a:ain't Lord IORRINGTON• The
Ceylon %nes, a tory and government pap r, and the
Examiner, a liberal journal which has =tie nr.ex-
=pled sacrifices of opinion to maintain a testing at
Government House, have turned round upon him.
They defended his Excellency against all previous
attacks of the radical Obserrer, as well on personal
as on political groun 's, but so rose are his f brim-
ti,ins in the deapa'c' eo published in "The Blue
Book," that bo'h (as will be seen from extract+ which
wa publieb under the head of C iylon) Eavc declared
that they "cannot he defended."
Sing, Lord TORRINGTON arrived in C+ylon he has
only once visit,d any part of the interior, std that
was on the occasion of an elephant kraal got up for
his amusement. There is but one real panable by
wteel catiages leriing to the interior: it is 0
three neon`hs since Lord TORRINGTON cooil -
even to inspect it for the first time. His tiny
F''
f,,11

17
Cl•

has lien so I xclavively teospird by bone-races 'Ltd
squab ilea °firstling on the race-oeuror, by balls and
dunces, by the eats of inventing new uses and sup-
posing the insu-rectionary movements to which
they gave rise, and latterly hyoshmainting all classes
of taws inhabitants in turn, in his racial de patches,
that he has bad co blears left foe the real dodos of

his office.
The character and conseqoecees of his gun tax, his I
dog tax, and his road tax have already been exposed
in the Weems of the Ay ma. One beneficial
measure has passed the cooed board slow he took
the reins of government is bead—the abolition
of all export duties except oa cinnamon—
end for this the planting and mercantile interests
were grateful, and amid the general disaffection at-
tempted to palliate his faults both of omission and
commtesioe. Bet these, his last retainers, have
learned from " the blue book" that he will shortly
impale upon them a land tax by which " he hopes to
raise a larger amount than was before raised by the
tersest, dirty." And they have learned from the
same Brom that he has in his despatches to Earl
OuT been laritging charges against them which he
must have known to be utterly unfounded. For
example, he accuses them of a notenancing disaffec-
tion and of alarming and driving away the coolies
who come annually from the eosin of India to gather
the coffee crop. In reply to this imputation it is only
necerary to observe, tbse, in the woggle now waging
against the consequences of depressed trade and heavy
soapy', the procreation of tranquillity, and the en-
ooeragement of the resort of the coffee gatherers are
iadispsesable to the solvency both of plasters and
merchants, and that they know this.
It is not additional taxation but the retrenchment
of profligate expenditure that is wanted in Cejlon.
But the Toy first salary to which the pruning-knife
would have to be appliedis that of the Governor, who
appears to be actuated by no idea more elevated than
that of clutching his annual 7,0001. sad allowances.
Moderate practical men intimately acquainted with
C~ylos assure u that 3,6001. would be amply sufficient
While the Governor's salary is 10 grOilly dimpropr-
tioned to the value of his services, it is perhaps not to he
expected that be should consent to the inquiry into the
islaad expenditure which the islanders so loudly call
for, or that a Governor like Lod To RING
diva abstain from imputing the worst of
motives to those who &mad it. But it is to be
hoped that the British pielisamtat, es at lust the
British public, will beer in mini that were the govar-
nor's salary one-half of what it nowted is there might
be a chance of having a men appoin to the Ake
for his merits only, whereas at present the prise is too
valuable toile conferred on any ewe bet some relation
of the " rnling family," or some political ally.
Of this ministers may rest awned, that, ankle
Lord TORRINGTON be speedily recalled, memorial will
follow memorial, month after month, notil either they
give up their rutige or the country gives them up.

COLONIAL.
CEYLON.
Oar dates from this colony are to the 18th of April.
The " B:ue Book" had reached Colombo, and the
feeling excited there was we of unanimous and un-
bounded astonishment at the virulence and mendacity
of Lord Torrington's despatches. The Observer. of
course, is, as it In been from the beginning of the
late disturbances, decidedly hostile to the governor.
But, in addition to this, the (Ceylon) /Inn, a tory
and government paper, and the Examiner, a free-
trade paper, which has hitherto defended government,
have felt it necessary to cat Lord Torrington's con-
nexion, so utterly incft tensible is his conduct regardel
in Ceylon. The Times says:
We searcity wish we could say Lord Torrington's conduct
is writing to Earl Grey of one respectable bed, of mer-
chants was es defensible as that exhibited by him during
the whole cons of the imnrrestion, and the pr ceediogs
which secommily followed its suppression; bat alga, we
grins to say we can find no excuse to p.iliate the tone and
style of hie lorlslip's despatches to E.rl Grey, accompany-
tgg the respectful memorials of the Chamber of Commerce.
We have not had time, nor does oar health permit us to go
through every document, indeed, perhaps unfits us for fair
sad impartial judgment, still we cannot but norms our me
hounded astonishment at 141 ing so grave, and we are bound
to add, so unitise a charge as is contained in clause No.
6, of his terdithio'a despirch Ni.. 28 of 18th August last.
There are ether charges of • similar nature in the various
despatches which, for the mama above given, we must defer
monsenting is fur the present; but, as as impartial journal.
he, we aball feel compelled to return to this subject when
the felt demos of fever will permit us.
The Asamisser sap:
We have all along defended Via Torrington as regards
his eminet in patting down the rebellion; we also
weed with the sonority of the Chamber of Com-
mons es to the impropriety of petitioning for repeal of car-
min oases at the juncture they did, but we mus• in the most
emnplete manner that is possible protest against the lan-
Haase employed and the lasinaaticaa thrown cut by his lord •
chip touching the body of merchants, whom forwarding their
memorial home to Earl Grey. Hem inset the line of our
adhesion tot drawn, and we can bat regret most deeply that
the merchants should be thus compelled to vindicate their
character, as we learn it is their intention to do. Our aim-
pathirs are with them.
The merchants have not left the task of their vin-
dication to the newspapers. They have addressed two
memorials to Earl Grey on the subject of Lord Tor-
rington's calmness, wire& we shall publish to-morrow.