The Express.
London, England, 1847-02-09 00:00:00

lemon of lands, who bad not paid their rates, sad they read,
further, that it was more diMcult to obtain rates from this
class of person , than from the humbler tenants of the toil.
How different was this state of things from what was pass-
ing in the north of the United Kingdom ! In the districts
of Scotland, where the public rates were not sufficient for
the support of the poor, tee landed proprietors had muni-
ficently come forward with their private subscriptions. He
did, therefore, trust that the Irish landlords would see the
necessity of altering their course with respect to
these matters. If they did, they might then require
assistance from the English, but not before. He found
it stated in the blue book he had referee,' to, that the two
members for Clare had put tenants upon the relief-rate who
were paying them considerable rents. He trusted that they
would be prepared to deny this serious imputation.
Major MACNAMARA. Sir,—As one of the members for
Clare, I beg to my, that every sentence in Captain Wynne's
letter is a malicious fslaeod. (Some sensation, amid which
the hon. member resumed hi. amt.)
Mr. B. OSBORNE said that he regretted none of the
Irish landlords in that house bad risen to reply to the charges
of the Lon. member fur Marylebone. When that hon.
member lectured them in that peculiar strain, only made
use of in the columns of certain daily papers—when he made
use of the sort of objurgation* which were the stock in trade of
o-ators on Irish matters as the member for theKeighley union—
(a laugh) —he mesas for Knaresborough—(renewed laughter)
—when he talked articles learnt by heart from the columns of
the Times of that day three weeks—and came down there
with mangled documents and mutilated information, he (Mr.'
Osborne) must say, that it did surprise him to find that no
Irish landlord was to be seen to rho from hie seat to ammo. I
his wild calumnies, and state what was doing fur the poor by
those who were most interested in their welfare. (Cheering.)
He begged to tell hon. members, that they had no right to
come down there to utter such statements as they had made
that evening. When the noble lord the member for Bath talked
of Lord Lucan's conduct at Castlebar, was that noble lord
aware that Lord Lucas had positively contradicted all that
was stated concerning him, and that he had kept open the
poor-houses at Cutlebar for three successive months, en-
tirely at his own expense? (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Osborne)
was not there to say that cases of neglect might not have
occurred ; he was fee from defending the conduct of all Vie
Irish landlords ; but this he must say, that neglect was the
exception, and not the rule, and that if their conduct was
blameable, it was conduct which the British legislation had
to answer for, for they had legislated for Ireland as they
would legislate for an English colony—(hear,bear)—at.d if
they had legislated in a different spirit, they would not have
had the state of things in Ireland which existed now. He
saw the hon. member for Paisley (Mr. Beetle) laugh. The
hon. member was always attacking the Irish landlords in
private, but he hoped he would soon see reuon to change his
views.
Mr. HASTIE hoped he should never say in pri.
vats what he was afraid to say in public, nor had he
stated anything in private or in public which was not
made universally well known by the official state-
ment' laid before that house. The Irish landlords had
grossly neglected their duty. (Hear, hear.) That wee a
tact fully confirmed by the evidence before them; he had
stated it in private, and no doubt in the hearing of the hon.
member who referred to his remark, and he thanked the
hon. member for giving him an opportunity of repeating
his opinion before that house end the rouutry. (Cheers)
When the Irish landlords saw the famine coming, what did
they do? Nothing but sit down and howl for English
money. (Loud laughter and cheering.) What ought they
to have done ? It was their duty to have ascertained the
quantity of grain in every parish—to have made returns to
the government and to that house, and to have taken every
means in their power to supply the deficiency. (Hear.)
That was the difference between what they had done, and
what they ought to have done, and certainly he (Mr. Mastic)
would not acquit them of ?dame.
Sir D. 0. J. NORREYS said that as Sir William Beecher
had been pointedly alluded to that evening, it was but right
for him to say that that hon. baronet had only a few days
since received the thanks of the relief committees of his dis-
trict for his conduct during the present crisis. (Hear, hear.)
This was a feet which spoke for itself, and be left it to the
house to contrast it with the accusations which were made
against him. With regard to the more general charges ad-
vanced by the hon. member for Marylebone, he must be
pardoned for saying that he thought that hon. member was
pandering to a very vicious feeling, which seemed to be very
general in this country. The hon. member had laboured
herd to make out a case. Had he succeeded ? There were
no less than 136 unions in Ireland, and' he hat cited the
cases of four of them without even stopping to ask what was
done in all the rest. (Hear.) As far as he (Sir 1). Norreys)
was aware, the landlords were doing all that could be ex-
pected of them in the present crisis, paralysed as they
were by the utter state of panic into which they had been
thrown. He believed also, that the landlords had been as
great sufferers as the tenants ; and he could not help adding,
though he was not a repealer, that much of what had been
charged against them was the fruirs of the selfish legislation
of a British parliament. (Cheers.)
Sir H. W. BARRON mooed in all that had been said by
the last speaker. In Waterford and Kilkenny, the counties
with which he was most intimately connected, the landlords
had done all they could. They had made the very calcula-
tions suggested by the hon. member for Paisley. It was
disgraceful to hear these mendacious charges made against
them ; and he must say, with reference to the hon. member
for Marylebone, that he thought he had acted must uncan-
didly in reading a document as a resolution paved in
Palace-yard by Irish landlords without stating that it was
nothing more than a report from a Sunday paper called the
Jam Hull, a paper which had no reporter present, and
which had sent out this improper, indecent, and mendacious
account, obtained from God knew where, as if it were a vera
cioua statement. The hon. baronet should Lave told the
house that his information was gleaned from an ob-
scure Sunday print, which had no reporter pre-
sent, and probably got its information second-hand.
There was a systematic attempt going on to pat down the
Irish landlords, an attempt which he was disposed to regard
as a low, cunning, manteuvre of the London capitalists, in
order to reduce the market value of Irish land, and thus
secure it at a cheap rate. (A laugh.) The attempt was sided
by certain portions of the press here, representing what was
called the money interest. The hon. baronet vindicated the
Earl of Lucan from the aspersions which had been cast upon
him, and characterised has lordship as a most benevolent
man, who, so far from not having paid his rates, had, by
ideation out of his own pocket alone, saved the inmates of
the union house from starving.
Lord J. RUSSELL hoped the house would not delay the
going into committ e on this urgent measure by desultory
discussion. (Hear.) For himself he felt bound to say
very few words in reference to what had fallen from the hon.
baronet. The hon. baronet had thought proper to make a
most unfounded attack upon members of a constituency
very dear to him, the constituency of the City of London.
The hon. baronet charged them with a low and cunning
conspiracy to get hold of Irish estates at a cheap
rate. He begged to remind the honourable baronet
' of a circumstance —About a month ago, several gentle.
men, intimately connected with the money interests of Lon-
don, but having no connexion with Ireland, haring no pro-
perty there, and, in all probability desiring to have none—
(a laugh)—met for the purpose of raising a subscription for
Ireland ; at which meeting several of those gentlemen con-
tributed 1,0001. each towards the object. (Hear, hear.) Not
content with doing this, and occupied as they were all the
morning till four o'clock, they formed a committee and met
every day at four o'clock for the purpose of further forward-
ing their generous purpose, by receiving subscriptions, con-
ducting correspondence, and taking measures to transmit ,
the funds ranted in the manner calculated to be most useful
to the Irish people. (Hear, hear.) As to the Imperial
Etch, quer, he would beg to remind the hon. baronet that
within the last week not less than a million sterling had
been sent over to relieve the immediate distresses of Ireland.
He believed, in a word, he might say that if, unhappily, on
the one hand, the calamity under which Ireland was suffei-
ing was unprecedented, the sympathy, the cordial and prac-
tical sympathy extended to her by England was equally un-
precedented. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. V. STEWART thought that the Irish landlords were
fully entitled to claim the attention of the house when they
sought to repel the calumnious aspersions cast upon them.
Mr. 8. CRAWFORD would not for an instant think of
asking aid from England, if he did not believe that Ireland
could and would repay the advances made to her. For his
own part he should be ready to have his property taxed to
the Int farthing for this purpose, and he considered that
the property of every landlord in Ireland ought to be
strictly taxed for the same object, and rigorous measures
adopted, where necessary, for enforcing the prompt payment
of the amount assessed upon each landlord. (Hear, hear.)
He regarded the relation of landlord and tenant in Ireland
as being at the root of all this evil and misery—(hear)—
and when Irish landlords charged the British parliament
with occasioning the mischief by bad legislation, he always
felt that the bad legislation had been in the undie
favour which had been shown to the Irish landlords at the
impetus of the people. (Hear, hear.) The property en-
joyed by these landlords was the remit of confiscation, and
every sort of assistance had been given them by the parlia-
ment for the recovery of their rents. It was not too much,
then, to require that they should do ordinary justice to the
people—(hear, hear)--and it was only in acknowledging
their past mismanagement and promising amendment fur
the future that they could fairly reek aid from England.
(Hear,bear.)
Alter a short further discussion, the house went into com-
mittee.
On clause Id being proposed,
Col. CONOLLY said he should decidedly object to rates
being made on the union at large, and not on the electoral
division.
Mr. F. FRENCH thought it would be best in the present
emergency to leave the matter entirely in the hands of the
government.
Mr. ROSS was not inclined at the present juncture to tie
up the hands of government, but begged to protest against
his assent to a temporary measure being drawn into a pre-
cedent for permanent legislation. Nothing, in Lis opinion,
(meld he more injurious than perm mostly to merge the elec-
toral division. it Ireland inn unions.
Mr. WILLIAMS wished that method to be alopted which
should most firmly fix the landlords of Ireland with their
share of the burthen. (Hear, hear.) He thought that
justice to the overtaxed people of this country required that
every precaution should be token.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN mid that the clause did not
involve the question of unions or electoral divisions, but wear
to vest the whole matter in the lord-lieutenant. (Hear.)
Ile did not wish to are Intel% power veded in the lord-
lieutenant, or in the commissioners appointed by him. He
should, therefore, mane that thy. clause he expunged.
Mr. al.o' FE It It ALL consented t the chum as a ;World in
fur the emergener . as a permanent mewure he thought the I
power gives too area'.
S.r 1). NORREYS supported the clause.
tilt J. GRAHAM said he hat hi.herto alstain sl from
taking part in this debate, beemise he thought it important
that no time which could be snared should be wasted In die-

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