The Express.
London, England, 1847-12-16 00:00:00

country, it was allowed to commence and savvy on bu•iarsse
entirely without capital. (Hear, hear) The government
W been obliged to borrow six, seven, or eight millions
pureet the payment of the dividends ; and had the Bank
n then in difficulties, into what a state would the country
have been thrown ? Such a condition of things ought not
to continue; and the house was the proper tribunal to deal
with the quirtion. (Hear.) As it had been decided that
all reetrEctions on trade were injurious, that monopolies
were the bane of commerce,—what 0e...1d be said of a mono-
poly in banking ? Did it not fall under the same principle ?
Let the house ascertain and decide—not by means of a
select committee of pre-determined opinions—but by a
committee of the whole house—whether there was any-
thing to take banks of issue out of the regular laws of mm-
:mice. The continued fluctuations and panics had been
most injurious. In the late panic it was estimated that
150 millions had been Yost ; and this I was as nothing '
compared with the amount of individual suffering and
damage. (Hear, bear.) Our great banking establish-
meat, to which all the world looked with reverence,
had in fact been bankrupt from the first, having been
carried on without capital. This was altogether wrong
on i. rineiple; while the principle of convertibility was pro-
fesstd to be maintained, the bank notes were made a 'riga
tender ; and thus country bankers were induced to take foes
precaution. But if any extraordinary circuitries's@
&mac, as an employment of capital out of the ordi-
nary channels, the Bank was p:unged into difficulties;
it had nothing to rely on but its deposits. On the
30th of October there were twenty millions of deposits in the I
Bank, to meet which they had only 1,150,0001., and out of
that nn advance had been made to a bank in the north which
was is difficulties. In the face of all that, the government
had a ithorised the Bank to issue more notes, thus incurring
the e'onger of positive bankruptcy. The experiment had
certainly turned out well ; but it was a most unwarrantable
interference. And the men who had dose this were to be
on this committee ! (Hear.) The banks of issue in So*
land, previous to 1846, afforded an instance of the advents/et
of leaving men to manage their own affairs; for, during their
whole history, there had been no variation in the amounted
the issues,except at two periods, the spring and autumn rem.
days—the only variation being from 3 millions to 3) millisme.
With this example, it was a most unfortunate proceeding
pus the act of 1844. The evil day having come, let the
tore retrace its steps. Let a committee of the whole house
take uo the subject: end he pledged himself to show
that with the free system of banking in the United
States not the least mischief had taken place. It would
be folly in the extreme to appoint a select com-
mittee. One committee had sat two years; and let any
one look over the 7,000 questions that they had put, and
sec what had been the result. He had no hesitation in
saying that the right hon. baronet the member for Tam.
worth, in the whole of his legislation on this subject, had
acted under the direction of Mr. Jones Loyd, and no one
had given utterance to more absurd opinions. In proof of
this the hon. gentleman read some extracts from his evi-
dence. Doubtless he would be examined again by the con,
mittee new proposed. Mr. Loyd held that deposits were's.*
circulation. The great operation bad not been on the circa-
Istkn, but on the deposits; and es the gold was lessened in
the Bank e deposits decreased. This was a question offs's*
trade, and .the repeal of the corn laws was nothing to it.
They should have • free trade in banking as well as in corn.
He did not think any good would be done by a committee,
for the system itself must be changed.
Mr. CARDWELL referred to &speech of Mr. Horner in.
1811. When that gentleman was charged with entering on
committee with preconceived opinions, he stated that the same
might be said of every memberof tbecommittee, and yetthe
! inquiry was conducted with impartiality, and every member
of the committee suspended his judgment until the inquiry
had terminated. The same observation would no doubt
apply to this committee. (Hear, hear.) He had no objec-
tion to serve on it, but he should not feel disappointed if the
name of Mr. Brown was substituted for his own. If, how-
ever, he remained on the committee, he hoped he should
have credit for a desire to give security to the future trans-
actions of commerce, and to p , if possible, the recur-
rence of the evils which had recently afflicted the commercial
community.
Mr. A. STAFFORD defended Mr. Jones Loyd from the
- R y 11U-

imputations which had been east upon him
member for Montrose.

the hon.

—„..--.
Mr. J. B. SMITH attempted to address the house, but
was met with loud cries of " Divide." After he had pro-
ceeded a short time,
Mr. FITZROY requested the Speaker to state what the
question before the house wu.
The SPEAKER said the question wu whether the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer should be a member of the committee.
Several members then attempted to address the house, but
much confusion prevailed, and it was impossible to hear what
passed. After order had been restored,
The SPEAKER proceeded to put the names of the diffe-
rent members of the committee.
Mr. PATTISON (taking advantage of a pause) said, that
the committee wee, as he expected, a very unfair one, and
no good could possibly result from it. He verily believed
the right hon. gentleman the member for Tamworth, if again
at the head of affairs, would propose an alteration of the act
of 1844. He had no wish to be a member of the committee,
but he had no doubt the Chancellor of the Exchequer h►d
omitted his name bonus* he knew be was opposed to the
act of 1844.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER m►de some
observations which were inaudible in the gallery.
The SPEAKER again proceeded to put the names of the
members of the committee proposed by the Chancellor of
the Exchequer,
On the question that Mr. Labouehere be a member of the
committee,
Mr. LABOUCHERE said, if the house required him, he
should be very happy to serve on the committee, but he had i
no wish to be on the committee if the house was desirous of
dispensing with his services, and he thought the hon. mem-
bar for Paisley, who it was proposed to substitute for him,
would make a Tory desirable member of the committee.
Lard G. BENTINCK having intimated that he should
divide the house on the amendment, that the name of Mr.'
Hestia be substituted for that of Mr. Labouchere on the
committee, the house divided—
For the original motion
For the amendment 77-117
The house again divided on the statism, that the name of
Mr. W. Brown be substituted for that of Mr. Cardwell,when
the numbers were—

For the original motion
For the amendment lOl-66

The name of Mr. Cardwell was consequently retained.
On the motion that Mr. Hume form one of the com-
mittee.
Mr. HUME said, he hoped the house would excuse him
from attendance._

Mr. WAKLEY moved the rubstaution of the name of
Mr. Munts for that of Mr. Hume, who declared to him hie
hoed determination that he would not attend. He also

I;;;TredlOtake that opportunity of retracting an expression
which he bad need in reference to an individual who was
not a member of that house. (Hear, hear.) He was not
jastified in making use of such an expression, and he was
sorry that he had used it. (Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER entertained
• strong °Maio& that Mr. Hume ought to be a member of
the committee.
The house divided—For the original motion 188
For the amendment
Mr. WAKLEY said that after the public and priests de.
elanstiou of the hon, member for Montrose that he would not
attend, he thought it was an improper proceeding to persist
is retaining his name. If the attempt wan persevered in, he
would more the adjournmeat of the debate. The govern.
ment seemed to him to have some dread of the name of Mr.
Hunts._

Col. Summit. seconded the motion.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that if Mr. Hums persisted in his
declaration that he would not attend, his right hon. friend
would have no objection to the came proposed by the hon.
member for Finsbury, or my other that the house thought
fit. Ho could aware the hon. member for Finsbury that the
government were not so much frightened by the name of
Mr. Manta as he supposed. (Laughter.)
Dr. BOWBINO thought that if the name of Mr. Hume
wu retained, he would give his services on the committee.
His declaration was a sort of nolo spiscopeici on his part.
Mr. BROTHERTON said the impression on his mind
was that Mr. Hume would attend the committee if his name
was retained.

Mr. ANSTEY mid that he would support the amendment
of the hon. member for Finsbury.
Biz B. PEEL said, that if the house deemed any particu-
lar member well qualified to serve on any committee, they
ought not lightly to abandon the power they had of ex-
pressing their opinion upon it. Re voted for retaining the
name of Mr. Hume, became he thought thathe ought to be a
member of the committee ; but, in doing so, the last thing in
his:mind was any desire to exclude Mr. Munta, who, from the
attention he had devoted to the subject, end from his position
as a member for Birmingham, was also well qualified to be
a member. If Mr. Hume persisted in his resolution not to
attend, he would be ready to vote for the name of Mr. Monts
or Mr. Haiti,.
After a short discussion, Mr. WAILLET withdrew his
amendment.
_________ .

Lord G. BENTINCH moved that the name of Mr. Henley
be substituted for that of Mr. Ricardo.
Capt. HARRIS thought it was but fair, as there was not
• single country gentleman on the committee, that the name
of Mr. Henley should be substituted for that of Mr. Ricardo.
The house divided—For the original motion.. 172
For the amendment .... 106-67
On the motion that Mr. Carr Olyn form one of the com-
mittee,
Mr. OSBORNE moved that the name of Mr. Glyn be
struck out, and on a future occasion he would move, if it was
not competent to do so at present, that the name of the hon.
member for Dublin (Mr. Reynolds) be substituted in hie
stead. The hon. member for Finsbury said that competence
was stamped on the appearance of tkehoe. member for Bir-
mingham. (Laughter.) He believed that any person who
looked at the hon. member for Dublin must be satisfied that
he wu equally qualified in that respect. (Laughter.) He
did mot think that Ireland was fairly represented on the com-
mittee. . _

Lord G. BENTINCH hoped that this hon. member for
Middlesex would not persevere in his motion. He had no
doubt that the hon. member for Dublin would form a very
useful member of the committee ; but all persona would,. he
thought, agree that no person had a better title to serve
upon it than Mr. Glyn, who was one of the largest bankers
inlys world.

Mr. REYNOLDS thanked the hon. member for Middle-
sex for the double compliment which he paid to him.
(Laughter.) He should, if elected, give his services on the
committee, but he begged to decline being placed on it in
the room of so eminent a member as Mr. Glyn. He did not
think that Ireland wu fairly represented. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. OSBORNE withdrew his amendment, and Mr.
Olyn's name was then inserted.
Lord O. BENTINCE. moved the substitution of the name
of Mr. Parham for that or Sir W. Clay.