The Express.
London, England, 1847-12-03 00:00:00

they weld lad eon enough they would sot be able to find
gMaasls hang ft ben. Why, they had absolutely sus•
iles awned= laws in order to tempt" this rash and
egoeulaties"—in order to invit. all the world to
k vowels Is ear shores Wien silk grain of every
mid= Way, was ft not too mach to turn round on us
leer lids, and say tint it is inspoesible to guard against im-
=eat scsauladass 1 (Opposition chows.) But he need
es their paknee no further. Her Majesty's go-
masoseat had then It right that this Important question
iteseld be thsem Mealy oa the rni. Wm a a matter for
Istaky. He (LeiZ thought it
was desk seem is have to parha-
mait • Ike thee ads. had, bewayer,
emit hem mg enit elms Having dose so, they mast,
of semis, Me the mennereeienalla. He (Lod Stanley) gave
as swim sow, bat the geeenstast having announced that
thleiggelameat a/thin:madam was the eel, measure they
Zetisesiapined to repose to pediment on this all important
thq MS sot be surge= if hout other quarter!
sit SOO at Mal by the ties of Mehl duty,
um posed meesiree eaggeded sedated mete directlyy
Ite meet es 111111=Nee of the trairgessy. (The noble lord
reams. ble met mid mush oppeeiths sheeriag.)
had 011 T esemoseed by rigger be the noble lord's
Inquiry, w Whg, if the govensemett bad sea measure to pro-
pose, they lesi sought a neseseiry he WI the pediment
together ?" If the noble lord had soneshed her Msesety's
speech at the commencement of the 'oemiw, he would
have Mond in it that the government , though tiny saw no
remedy that they could advantageously suggest, still
had ample reasons for summoning the partiament. The
suffering had proceeded from measures over which they
had no control, and the consequences of which it was utterly
impassible for them to avert. But the government had
taken a measure which might have led to a violation of the
law, and no government had any right to take a measure of
that kind without giving parliament the earliest opportunity
of expressing its judgment. No act of indemnity, indeed,
was necessary, but such measures as the government
thought necessary to be introduced not only were
, prepared, but they absolutely had already submitted them
to parliament. If the noble lord was himself right as
to the cause of commercial dinner, it was clear
, there was no measure more important as a mesas of pre.
venting the continuance of the distress than some bill which
postponed fora season all demands consequent upon railway
transactions. The government had submitted to parlia-
ment a bill with that very view, and had proposed to
go as far as it was possible to go consistently with justice sad
a respect for existing contracts. But the noble load es=
plained that no opinion had been expressed by the gears-
ment relative to the act of 1844. That accusation was
hardly well deserved. The noble marquis (Lansdowneli
had said distinctly that, in his °Malan, the distress was not
attributable to the act of 1844, and in that view he (Earl
Grey) was glad to find that the noble lord opposite entirely
concurred with him. The government were not, of course,
prepared to maintain that the existing arrangementa under
' the act of 1844 were perfect ; but when the 'table lord mid
that that act must be faulty because government had par•
mined is infringement, he (Earl Grey) was at ems p-
pared to express his dissent from any such view. As had
been well said in 1844, whilst it might be &Seek to define
where they might depart from the principle estaldishml by
the act, yet, extraordinary circumstances might arise from
time to time which would be best dealt with at the discre-
tion
of government. lie (Earl Grey), too, dissented from
the view of the noble lord that the adoption of the govern-
mast measure of relief at all necessarily Implied that it
should have been done earlier. On the contrary, he (Earl
Grey) thought that it should be deferred until the last mo•
meat. The noble lord referred to the Fat of failures. No
one lamented them more than he did. The calamities were,
no doubt, very sad, and almost unparalleled. But, at theism
time, it was the opinion of the well•informed that the
houses which bad failed, whether from imprudence or mis-
fortune, were not really solvent—that waistlines might have
maintained them for a time, but that ultimately their failure
was inevitable. That was the state of things in the earlier
period of the panic. At the end of October, however, all ac-
counts showed that though these failures had not then ex-
tended to solvent housee, yet that these would fail if some
measures were not taken by the government. The panic
was then so serious that many were unable to real-
ise money to meet their immediate demands.
There was a desire among the bankers and the
public to retain the money they happened to poems, and
to get in all their outstanding debts. It was obvious that
the whole system of our commercial distress proceeded in an
assumption that there would be no simultaneous cell for
money. There was sucks call. The government were told
that if an assurance were given that money might be had
even at a very high rate of interest, that would bring into
circulation money that bad formerly been withheld. Such
an opinion was expressed to the government from quarters
deserving the highest consideration: the government be-
lieved it to be well founded ; they acted upon it, and he
(Earl Grey) must say that he thought the result proved that
they had not been mistaken. The noble lord said that this
was a question they ought not to turn loose for the consider.
ation of a committee, but that, on the contrary, they ought
to have made some definite proposal with respect to the set
of 1944. Certainly, if the government had believed that any
alteration of the act of 1844 was calculated to check the com- I
mercial distress, be (Earl Grey) agreed that they ought to have
done some. ping ; but their opinion was the reverse ; their opi-
nion was, that though that act might require alteration in
some parts, yet that its main principles are undoubtedly i
sound, and that to teach the commercial community to ,
look for relief to what was called " relaxation of the cur-
rency," would be to teach them in fact to look to a deception.
It was not te devise any remedy of that kind that the govern-
ment now asked for the appointment of a committee. What
they desired was to see if the act of 1844 was in its details
susceptible of improvement. The noble lord intimated
an opinion that the commercial distress of the country had
not panel by. He (Earl Grey) wished be could take a dif-
ferent view. He was bound, however, to admit that it
seemed to him that of the many causes productive of dis-
tress there were several still in operation, and that they must
look forward to still further depression. But, however
gloomy the immediate ap?earances might be, there was no-
thing in the state of the country which ought to discourage
' us, or cause us to fear that at some earlier or more remote
period the country would not, by its inherent vigour and
energy, emerge from all its difficulties, and rise to prosperity
I even greater than before. (Cheers.) Various causes had
been advirted to for the distress, but amongst others
, I the noble lord had omitted to mention the high ex-
penditure, arising from a high price of provisions, which
I had affected every family, from the highest to the
lowest, in the land, during the past twelve months.
When they remembered that for some time last season
wheat was at 80s., 905., 1001., and even 120 s. per quarter,
they might find some ground for considering that an impel,
tent element of the distress had been omitted from the uohle
I lord's catalogue. When they coneidered how this had added
to the expenditure of every family in the country, and ape-
, cially of the working classes, and the enormous drain from
1 railway and other causes, they would net feel so at
difficulties which had been experienced. Bat they hal jut
had a very good harvest, and if blessed with a romans of
favourable seasons, the greatest of all drains, ling=
from a scarcity of corn, would be at an end. And
railways undoubtedly formed a great drain at that aomeat,
yet it must be remembered that when constructed they
would add incalculably to the national wealth. Oa
this account, and having regard to the =gm=
prospects as regarded the supply of cotton from Am-
rip, he thought that at no distant day this
would again attain her wonted prosperity. His nob=
said that the expense of the last year, and the distills 1111111*
stoned by the large imports of corn, went far to etiongthin
the arguments of those who had inn opposed te the repel
of the corn-laws. Now, be must say that his (Earl Grey's)
opinion was precisely the revere. lie could not conceive a
combination of circumstances which would more completely
confirm the soundness of all the arguments of those wise
bad advocated a free importation of foreign corn. In the
first plea, he would ask their lordships to consider what
must have been the sufferings of the population if this im-
portation had not taken place ? His noble friend then went
on to say that it had formerly been awned that if they im-
ported large quantities of corn then would be • large increase
in the exports to pay for it. It was perfectly true
that the exports had fallen off : a fact tally ac-
counted for by the diversion of a large portion of the
capital of this country to railways, by the deficiency In the
cotton crop, and by various other causes. In point of es,
however, in the ease of thine countries from whisk the
largest supplies of corn were obtained, there had been an
increase in the amount of exports. (Hear, hear.) In the
three quitters ending October, 1848, the exports to Aar.
rice amounted to 4,080,0001. ; while, within the coma
period in 1947, they amounted to 8,291.0001. (Hear, hear.)
But, beyond thet, it was notorious that one effect of the large
demands of corn from America had been to imam the °as-
sumption of British manufactured goods in the Hid= States he
an extent which could hardly have been angented. The
American Airmen, malting increased profits, bail Imeresil
their expenditure, and a considerable portion of the bemuses
had been applied in the purchase of British USSUUbleWill•
A similar result had been witnessed in the Turkish empire
and in Brasil, in the latter case owing of comet te the in-
creased import of sugar. It roust not be forgellon, when
this question was under consideration, that &large preposeha
of our exports was necessarily affected by the ishium whit
prevailed in Europe generally. (Hear, hear.) niggled=
of the cantons with which we principally desk wee ahead
as severely affected by the high price of hid as ear
own : It was Impossible that the inhabitants ri Holland,
Germany, and France, who wen paying extenegist pdas
for their food, could consume the customary um= of lie
tialt manufactures. But the noble lord went on to seir-11

the corn speculations had been inordinate, who we. te blame
for it but her Majesty's government ? He (Bari Grey) was
not aware that those speculation were inordinate—
(hear, bear) ; he very mach doubted whether they had ex-
ceeded what prudence required. No doubt some individuals
had incurred heavy loam; but for the interest of the country
the importations had not been exoeseive. For some weeks
before the harvest the weather was fine to a degree which
was almost unexampled ; and the harvest, which every one
thought would be late, proved, on the contrary,
early. Had the harvest been three or four weeks later
than usual, there would not have been a angle grain of own
in the country to spare. (Hear, bear.) He believed that,
as a whole, the operations of the British merchants in the
corn trade, during the last year, ware marked by a degree of
foresight, which was not lee, remarkable than the energy
and activity displayed in them—an energy and an activity
which, under providence, had been the means of saving the
country from the horrors of famine, end which showed with
how much justice her Hajesty'sgovernment had, in the early
part of last mission, refused to interfere with the enterprise of ,
the private trader by sending ship to America for corn.
But even if the corn speculations had been inordinate, he
might still contend that the government bad not encouraged
them. All that they had done was to ask parliament to
suspend the navigation laws and the duty established by
the act of 1846; and could any one doubt that both
thoso_ouspoorsioso wore asomary t He, for ono, felt that if

they had failed to protium what they hod due, they would
have beet lets_ fly anworthy of their pollee. espeded
the question be the house, he thegehig falba Man
dated by his noble friend near hire, h ess=s.Sffillim
' that the house should appoint the prepared ie
Lord BROUGHAM said that, althesA the "wkesl a
free trade might be excluded from that Esseeelea, H =aid
not be shut out from the deliberations of sjse ounnemee
which they were about to appoint. Into the =Volt
quires the whole question would naturally be
The inquiry would also embrace those railway mtandeflons
weir), had absorbed so large a portion of the mtal of the
country, and the evils of which might justly be imputed, in
a great degree, to the legislature itself. He would much
rather provide for the present than scan the put ; yet be
could not help saying that Belem were any parties in the
legislate» whose consciences were free from Diann upon
that question, it was the noble duke then sitting at the
table (the Duke of Wellington), and himself (Lord
Brougham). Another subject which would be taken op
war that of the usury laws, the state of which was very in-
jurious to the landed interest, in consequence of the partial
repeal of same enactments, and the retention of others.
Unless something were speedily done to improve those laws
there was the prospect, if not of great agricultural distress,
at least of landowners' unbarreasment.
The Duke of GRAFTON was of opinion that the only
hope for the country lay in an enlargement of the currency.
Lord ASHBURTON could not agree with his noble
and learned friend, that it would be advisable to postpone
the committee of their lordship.' house till the committee of
the other house made their report. The danger was too
imminent to allow them to wait for the result of another
committee, whose proceedings might last, from the extent of
the inquiry before them, as long u the siege of Troy. If be
taw reason to adopt such a course, he should feel himself at
liberty to move that the cause—what he wandered the CAW
—of the recent preemie, should be done away with. He
did not think that the noble marquis opposite would have
dwelt so much on the lane importation of corn which had
taken place in the present year, if he could have discovered
any better reasons to account for the recent rerun. Un.
doubtedly, a great deal of corn had been imported, but he
was not one of those who attributed the pressure on the
money market to that cense. He did not think that an ex-
penditure of 33,000,0001. for corn during 18 months was
sufficient to account for it. He was willing to admit that no
inference could be drawn as to the general policy of the re-
peal of the corn law from what paned. But they had been
told that the old law occasioned great fluctuations in price,
and that the effects of its repeal would be to do away with
those fluctuations. Now, the experience of the prevent year
proved that they had rester fluctuations under the recent
change than at any former period, for within a short time
the price of corn fluctuated between 40s. and 120 i. (Hear.)
Another benefit which was predicted from the alteration of
the law was, that it would put an end to gambling, whereas
the truth was, that under the recent changes there had been
more gambling in ours, and consequently more ruin, than at
any former period. (Hear, bear.) The noble marquis as-
cribed to the visitation of Providence the &millet which
bad befallen them. Be (lord Ashburton) maintained that
the famine had not absorb/al that amount of capital which it
was supposed to have absorbed. The extent of that evil was,
that it reversed the balance of trade between them and the
United States, and thereby caused an export of suede and a
reduction of it in the coffers of the Bank. He maintained
that the act of 1844 aggravated all the other causes of the
pressure they bad been suffering under. The famine was a
heavy pressure, particularly on the poorer classes, but it
was a mistake to suppose that it was • cause, or
even a very great aggravation of the currency difficulty.
The noble marquis said that the causes of the evil were be-
yond the reach of parliament. Oise of those causes had been
ascribed to the large sums absorbed in railway speculation.
Was not that a subject within the control of parliament
(Hear, bear.) Had he not himself warned the house, though
his warnings had been unattended to, of the dangerous
effects of those enormous speculations? (Heer,'lnar.) The
noble lord, who had lately been appointed to the head of the
government of India, entertained the same views with him-
self, and he drew up a kind of sale for the purpose of limit-
ing the total amount of railway expenditure. No doubt
railways were a useful enterprise if they were not carried on
beyond what the capital of the country would safely war-
rant Had not parliament also interfered with the West
India interest ? (Hear, hear.) And noble lords opposite
were responsible for the evils which had been caused by that
interference. What was the condition of the West Indies
now ? Why, they were In such a condition that every
packet brought accounts of proprietors sending back the
drafts of their own agent*, which had been drawn for the
purpose of paying the ordinary expenses of their estates. It
was not true, then, that thou were the visitations
of Providence, and that a great part of the evil
had not been caused by their own fault (Hear, bear.)
Then it was said that there had been a great deal of over-
trading, particularly by houses connected with the India
trade. Now, the India trade was carried on in this way,
end it was so carried on for at least half a century. He did
not mean to may that the system was a good one, but he
wished to date the fact. It was the custom of merchants,
when they sent out the manufactures of this country to
India, to get six months' credit. A large portion of the trade
was 'therefore necessarily carried on by a system of credit '
He thought there had been too much credit, but the system
was not • new one. It was therefore clear that when that
credit on which they reposed wee suddenly withdrawn, those
men must be thrown on their backs. It was the altered
state of their money law which rendered it impossible for
them to carry on their operations as usual, and not any im-
prudence, which brought them to the ground. So much ,
for the general imputations cast on the victims of their
altered law. But it was not alone these who were made
victims that suffered. The whole of the commercial
try of the country had suffered to an extent which their
lordshipe would find it difficult to give credit to if stated in
figures. (Hear, hear.) And this was not all. The commer-
cial character of the country had been deeply injured ;
and the London merchant, whose character for integrity
and security stood at the very highest point in every
quarter of the globe became • by-word in the mouths of
foreigners. (Hear' bear.) He coasidered that these results
were to be ascribed, almost beyond contradiction, to the re-
strictions imposed by the act of 1844, and not to the impor-
tation of corn. In France there was a larger importation of
corn, in proportion to the extent of its means, than in this
coattry. But the commercial credit of France was not
affected from that circumstance, and the Bank of France did
not refuse its ordinary accommodation to the commercial
elutes, although it hardly possessed 2,000,000 sterling in its
coffers. (Hear, her.) The government in this country re-
quired the Bank to demand 8 per cent. before it gave &mom
modation. The result of such a high rate of interest would
be, that the ordinary manufacturing operations of the
country could not be carried on. A respectable merchant
from Birmingham told him lately, that he had received a
very valuable and extensive order to execute, and on going
to his banker to get assistance to enable him to execute it, he
was told by that banker that the Bank of England dis-
counted at 8 per cent., and that ha must have as much. But
he replied that, valuable as the order was, that would be
more than he would have by the transaction himself.
(Hear, bear.) The great object to be gained by the act of
1844 was convertibility, and this convertibility was to be ob-
tained by the contrivance of the Bank of England. But the
result of this contrivance was that the Bank of England,
having 8,900,0001. of private deposits, was at one time in
each a predicament that they had no more than 1,160,000/.
reserve; to that the great object of the act of 1844, namely,
the maintaining of payment in smelt, was rendered more
difficult by its own operation. (Hear.) Before the act of 1844
was maid, the Bank of England did not refine reasonable
accommodation when the amount of securities possessed by
it was much smaller. In 1835, the average possessed by the
Bank was caoe,cooi ; in 1836, 7,000,0001_ : 1837, 8,000,0001. ;
1838, 9,000,0001.; 1839, 5,000,0001.; 1840,4,000,0001. These
were years in which the Bank discharged the functions of a
Catnational establishment, and fulfilled the purposes
which it was instituted, by affording proper
and reasonable accommodation to the commerce of the
country. But this year, when it had upwards of 8,000,0001.,
it was not able to do so, not because it was afraid of not being
able to pay, but because it was afraid of falling within the
limits of the law of 1844. It was said that by demanding a
rate of interest at 8 per cent, they would keep down the
demand for discounts, as persons would not be likely to pay
that rate. But they forgot that the Bank of England, in de-
minding so much, set an example to the whole country. (Hear,
hear.) Bethought that there were circumstances connected
with the Bank of Rutland which required consideration
from the committee. The Bank had lately resorted to the
prudes, which was unknown under the old law, of going
into the Stock Exchange, and become in feet mere stock-
jobben. The Bank had the power of issuing 14,000,000 of note,.
This was a practice which required to be considered, as when
the Bank raised the interest the stocks went dome, and when
they lowered the rate of interest the stocks went up. (Hear,
hear.) The law gave the Bank the power to lane
14,000,000 of notes, and the law required that when a re-
duction of coin took place it should be followed by a cor-
responding diminution of paper. Now he maintained
it was net necessary that the paper circulation ehoold
be sassed in the proportion forced on the Bank.
He oseeklared that a cutiron rule in an act of parliament,
pmemlbite • gloat amount of circulation under all cir-
eunelliems% was utterly valueless. Some margin should be
lgigtrieragreene who knew that although twenty millions of
e were dangerous at one time, twenty-flee might be
mho* safe at another. (Hear, heir 1 -He contended
that government, by suspending the act of 1844, had COD-
dowsed its principle ; and that they were right in doing so ,
was proved by the general prosperity which had inionediae,o3,
followed its suspension, (Hear, bear.)

The Earl of EOLINTON wished to know why the Scotch
banks were not to be included in the inquiry ?
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE mid there was nothing
in the terms of his notice to shut out the Scotch banks, but
that would be a point for the discretion of the committee.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE wished to know the terms on
which government and parliament stood with the Bank. It
was very important for their lordships to know whether, if
they thought flt to alter the Bank Charter Act, or to interfere
with the privileges of the Bank, they were in a condition
legally to do so ; and, if not, whether the acquiescence of the
Bank authorities could be calculated upon., Notwithataud-
ing all lte had heard he still put faith in the principle of the
act of 344, and he gave the government infinite credit for
the course they had adopted respecting it. (Hear, hear.) I
After a few words in explanation from Lord ASHBURTON,
Ttiw Marquis of LANSDOWNE, In answer to questions
was to him in the course of the debate, said that it would not
cone within the scope of the committee's labours to consider
am=a lop the whole monetary system of the country, but
101111 DO themselves to the banking question. With
rompoottelk• Bank, he wee happy to be able to state that there
was wooer disposition in that quarter fairly to meet the views
*timeliness and the legislature.
The moilia, with a vernal amendment suggested by Lord
STANLIY 1111111190041 d to by the Marquis of L Coe DOWN
was them agreed to, and the house adjourned at a quarter
put Wm Viiisk.