The Express.
London, England, 1851-05-17 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 17, 1851,

mined to adopt the words of the hon. and learned member , LAWS OF MORTMAIN COMMITTEE.
for Midhunt es a clause instead of inserting them in the Mr. J. O'CONNELL moved that the select committee
=r e. (Hear' hear.) With regard to the hon. and on mortmein do consist of eighteen members. and that Mr.
member's other amendments, he would, no doubt, Monsell, Mr. Napier, and Mr. Keogh be added to the eons-
j= them at the proper time, and he (Lord J. Russell) mince. Ho thought there could be no reasonable objection
he prepared to offer his reasons for opposing them. to this, seeing that there were now but tw,o Roman catholic
With regard to allowing private individuals free action in members on the committee, and but one connected with
these matters, he thought it would be 11:Mien's in practice, Ireland. Of the gentlemen he proposed two were eminent
and objectionable in pnnciple, because itte offence was in Irish lawyers, one of them a protestant ; and, seeing that
fact one committed against her Majesty's crown and dig- the law in Ireland on the subject differed from the law in
nity,andit would therefore be the function of a government, England, he thought benefit would arise from the addition
and not of a private party, to vindicate the law. With he proposed.
respect to that vindication he certainly thought that if the Mr. HEADLAM considered that no reasonable objection
bill passed it would be the duty of government, of course could be offered to the committee as it stood. The inquiry
exercising a discretion as to the particular case, to prosecute was not directed against any religious class,and his object had
any person assuming the titles which were forbidden by been to have such members upon it as he thought were best
the bill. qualified to conduct the investigation. Personally, he had
The CHAIRMAN put the question, that the preamble not the slightest objection to the names the hon. gentleman
he postponed. had proposed, and if it was thought right to ext. nil the
Mr. KEOGH wished the preamble to he taken first, as number of the committee, he should not oppose the mo-
he had emotion on the subject. He did not think, how- lion.
ever, he ought to be compelled to adopt that course. The Sir G. GREY observed that the house, to prevent a
noble lord said he had abandoned his own preamble. serious inconvenience, arising from select committees
(" No," from Lord J. Russell.) Then, that he had being composed of too many members, had passed
adopted the preamble of the hon. and learned member for au order limiting the number ; and though eaten-
Midhurst. had been allowed in some cases, it had been only un-
Lord J. RUSSELL rose to explain. What he had said der special circumstances. Ile thought unless strong grounds
was, that there were certain words inserted in the pre were stated the house ought not to depart from a rule which
amble which the hon. and learned member for Midhurst had been attended with beneficial results by insuring the
bad taken as a clause. Ile (Lord .1. Russell) had said that attendance of members. No such special circumstances had
he would accept them as a clause, and that it would be a been shown in this case, and therefore he must oppose the
matter for subsequent consideration whether they should motion.
retiin them in the preamble. Lord ARUNDEL and SURREY thought there were
Mr. K EOGII said it was quite clear that the noble lord such special circumstances in the present case. Though he
intended to make an important alteration in the bill on the was a member of the committee he had been so engaged on
suggestion of the hon. and learned member fur Midhurst ; other committees that he had not been able to attend.
and having announced his intention of withdrawing three This was an inquiry which related to matters important to
clauses out of tour, and of willing to reconsider Roman catholic, in Ireland - •

spg war, being . & por-
tion of the preamble, he (Mr. Keogh) thought it but right
that the house should know what were really the intentions
of the noble lord, and what they could insist upon making
the government stand by. (Hear.) The hon. member fur
Somerset had said that if no one else moved that the bill
be printed he would do so. lle (Mr. Keogh) then put it
to the noble lord whether it was right to have a bill in
which three clauses out of four had been withdrawn, and
the preamble of which no one could make out—(Hear)—
submitted to the house in its present imperfect form. Ile
proposed, therefore, without any motive of factious opposi-
tion, that the bill should be printed before any further
legislation took place upon the subject.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that, in consequence of what
had fallen (roan the hon. and learned member for Athlone,
he hail a proposal to make to the house. Ile was willing to
leave out the clause he now proposed to leave out, to keep
the clauses he had announced his intention of keeping, and
to insert in the preamble the amendment described by his
right hon. friend the Secretary of State. Then, if the lion.
and learned gentleman would be willing to go into com-
mittee on Monday, without raising a fresh debate on tho
question of the Speaker leaving the chair, the bill could
then be considered as reprinted. The hon. and learned
member for Midhorot would also, in that case, be free to
Prarhis amendments.
KEOOII said that if he rightly understood the noble
lord his propeaition appeared to be most reasonable. (Hear,
hear.) Ho would nut, however, consent to accept the
clause.

-.ld as well m in Englanu, and he
thought there ought to be another catholic member or two
on tho committee, and certainly one or more connected
with Ireland.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL reminded the right hon. gentleman
that the other catholic member on the committee had
expressed opinions averse to the interests of the catholic
church, and therefore he could nut be considertal as repre-
senting those interests. As hail been said, there was a
different law in Ireland with regard to mortmain from that
which existed in England, and lie thought the two legal
gentlemen hu had named ought to be placed on the com-
mittee.
Lord J. RUSSELL, had no objection, if the noble lord
(Lord Arundel) could not attend to substitute the name of
the hon. and learned member no Athlone.
After a few words from Mr. HAMILTON and Mr. Mean-
t...Mt,
Mr. KEOGH said he thought it unreasonable to oppose
the motion, but for himself he would rather not be on the
committee, as he was otherwise engaged.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL insisted ou his motion, and
The house divided
For the motion
Against it
SIAM AND COCHIN CHINA
Mr. HUME moved an address for copies of instructions
from Viscount Palmerston to Sir James Brooke, repecting
the recent mission to the courts of Siam and Cochin China,
together with Sir James Brooke's report to his lordship of
the result of the mission ; including copies of all notes

Lord J. RUSSELL had not intended so to bind the
bon. and learned member.

which passed lwtween the 'lnroy and court of Siam ; also,
copies of Viscount Palmerston *reply to Sir James Brooke's

Mr. 11. GRATTAN ruse amid loud cries for Mr. Wal-
pole. lie begged pardon, the hon. and learned member
for Midhurst was not an Irishman. (A laugh.) Ilr did
not like ouch jokes. (Continued laughter.) Did the hon.
and learned member mean to include Ireland ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the words referred to by the
hon. member were not to be cm lulled.
Mr. GRATTAN.—If the words of the hon. and learned
member for Midhurst were accepted it would be impossible
for a Roman catholic to exist iu the country. It was well
known that every Roman catholic bishop and priest held
his appointment from the Pope.
C lIA I RM AN —Onler, order.
Mr. GIIATTAN—There is no order in my country.
(Loud laughter.) His proposal was that they should nut
have any further discussion on the bill. Ile wished to
know what portions of the bill had been withdrawn ?
The CHAIRMAN—The preamble and three clauses.
Mr. GRATTAN—What are we discussing?
An HON. MEMBER—Nothing.
Mr. GRATTAN—WeII, as we are discussing nothing,
the house will perhaps allow me to say a word or two upon
that point. (Great laughter.) The preamble was to be
ulcer's', and three clauses out of four were to be withdrawn.
Was it then worth the noble lord's while to drag the house
and the country into
sects idsa bog, where armies whole have sunk
I Let the noble lord make another omission and leave out
Ireland. (Hear.) Let him take warning by the ominous bell
they had heard tolling from Enniskillen on the former
evening, and not resuscitate the fell spirit of part) in Ire-
land. The Orange party, there, was again raising its head,
' an instance of whose intolerance had lately occurred in his
own neighbourhood. An English clergyman having been
buried there, a cross was placed over his grave, hut the
Orange party broke into the churchyard in the night, broke
the crow, and wrote No popery "on it. They afterwards
spent the remainder of the night drinking. To '• with
the Pope and all the cardinals." (Loud laughter.) They
' should consider the state of Ireland, instead of such
trumpery measures as this. In the north every
man who asked for his rent was shot, while the
south was a desert. A man had lately ridden
twenty miles in Ireland without meeting a human
being. (Hear, hear.) Talk of billies, the bullies were
the men who had kept down his country with 10,000
armed men. They had driven the people to the grave or to
America, hut they should remember Saratoga, General
Cornwallis, and Lord Burgoyne. (Loud laughter.) Well,
General Burgoyne. Ile hoped that the noble lord would
reject the bill.
Mr. WALPOLE said that the hon. member had mistaken
both the noble lord and the proposition of the hue. and
learned member for Athlone. That proposal was so rea-
sonable that he was willing to accept it. That proposal was
to take the committee pro form. in order to have the
bill reprinted. The proposal of the noble lord would
then contain a recital of the alteration proposed by the
Right Hon. the Secretary of State. After which the first
clause would contain words providing that such brief, or
rescript, or letter apostolic, should be void, and all titles
conferred by them unlawful and void. The clauses now
known as 2,3, and 4, would be struck out, of course
leaving it open to him (Mr. Walpole) to propose his other
amendments. At the same time he was not going to deny
that there were great difficulties both ways respecting the
informer's clauses. (Hear, hear.) But if the hon. mem-
ber for Meath thought that it was any part of his intention
that Roman catholic' should cease to exist in Ireland, or that
their worship or spiritualities should be interfered with, lie
could assure that hon. member that he was math ely
mistaken. (Hear, hens.) If the hon. member could show
him in committee that the effect of hi. clauses would be
such as he had described, the (Mr. Walpole) would ut once
withdraw them. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MOORE acquiesced in the proposition of the noble
lord.
Mr. M. GIBSON suggested that it was hardly worth
while to amend the preamble. He thought it was wholly
deficient in two vital elements, boldness and truth. Ile
thought the best way would be to abandon the preamble,
and pass the bill with a single clause.
Mr. NEWDEGATE, who was almost inaudible, called
the attention of the noble lord at the head of the govern-
ment, to the fact that there were, at this moment, in vio-
lation of the ancient law of the land a cardinal legate in
England, and a legate a !Were in Ireland. These ecclesiastics
were not at all necessary for the spiritual service of the
church, their functions being entirely political and tem-
poral.
Sir F. THESIGER suggested that it would be better
to defer these observations until they got into committee,
when his hon. friend could call the attention of the go-
vernment to the very important point he had raised. He
could introduce amendments, if necessary, but at present
the best way would be to follow the invariable course, and
postpone the preamble, because the preamble usually had
reference to the clauses of the bill. 'Therefore, he thought
it better to follow the same course now, and when in
committee the objections to both preamble and clauses
could be discussed, as well as the point which had been
raised by the right hon. member for Manchester.
Mr. REYNOLDS, as it seemed to be the general under-
standing that the bill should be postponed in order to its
being reprinted, agreed that it would be better not to enter
into any discussion at present.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought, with the hon. and learned
gentleman (Mr. Walpole), that it would be advisable to
reserve till Monday the discussion of the points referred to
by the right hon. member for Manchester and hon. gentle.
men opposite. All he asked was that they should on Mon-
day be placed in the same position as they were now, and
that no opposition should be made to the motion for going
into committee.
Mr. KEOGH wished to observe that it was not, as he
believed he should be able to show by a reference to prece-
dents, the invariable custom in committee to postpone the
preamble until after the clauses were considered, and it was
his intention to oppose that course..
The house then resumed, and the bill was ordered to be
recommitted on Monday.
Lord J. RUSSELL, in reply to a question from Mr.
Hume, stated that he proposed to qc, on with this measure
on Monday instead of the navy estunatee, which at present
stood on the paper for that day.
COAL-WHIPPERS' (PORT OF LONDON) BILL.
On the motion for the second reading of this bill being
read,
Mr. HUME said he had intended to oppose the measure
as an unnecessary and impolitic interference with labour ;
but as he understood some honourable gentlemen who
were connected with the coal trade had expressed a
wish that the bill should be read a second time, in
order to its being referred to a committee up stairs, he
would not offer any objection. He would, however, take
this opportunity of urging on the government to consider
whether the principle of the bill was not altogether a depar-
ture from the principle of free trade. Ile was favourable
to the coasting trade, and, therefore, he was averse to add
to those restrictions which were already tending to divert
the coal trade from the coasting vessels to the railways.
Mr. FORSTER was also opposed to the bill, but con-
sented to the arrangement.
The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed.
VALUATION (IRELAND) SALARIES AND
ALLOWANCES.
The report of the reaolution of the whole house on this
Subject was brought up sad agreed to.

report, and of memorials from th•e Singapore Chamber of
Commerce, and from merchants of that place, having re-
ference to the Lame of the said mission.
Agreed to.
METROPOLITAN COMMISSION OF SEWERS.
Lord J. RUSSELL having moved that the house at its
rising do adjourn till Monday next.
Sir 11. HALL wished upon this question to call the
attention of the hon. member at the head of the Commis-
sion of Sewers to some extraordinary facts with which he
had become acquainted in reference to that de para.
went. The house would recollect that this com-
Mi.4,10n woo one of the most powerful bodies that existed in
this country. It had power and jurisdiction over
property to the amount of 8,400,000/. The e -
roissioners were wholly irresponsible. They bad
recently made a rite of most extrairelinary amount.
Their liabilities were enormous. It appeared that the act
required a record of all their minutes and proceedings to be,
kept, which the ratepayers might inspect, in order to np- 1
peal against a rate if they thought proper. He had gonel
to the commission as u ratisiy, r, in accordance with the
noble lord's recommend:it , to inspect the book ; and
would the house believe that though this was a court of
record—that though the act required records to be kept—
no record of any proceedings of the commission could be
found at the office of a later date than the 10th of October
last. Ile would undertake to say that not a single parish
vestry would venture to conduct its proceedings in such a
way, and to allow some months to elapse without making
any entry in their hooks. During that time they had
levied a rate of 110,0001. upon property of the value
of 4,000,0001., and his noble friend kuew as well
as he did that no entry had beim made cif the
order for that rate. lie (Sir D. Hall) when he went to the
office asked to see the manuscript minute of the last rate of
6d. in the pound. Ile was shown a piece of paper on
which was written a rough 'Manic., but without date or
signature, and as to that order for the rate foe the Wkst-
miuster district of sewers, it had never to this day been
entered in the minute boa. He went to the office of the
commission in company with his noble friend the member
for Bath, who would confirm his statement that this order
fiir a rate of 110,000/. was taken out of a mass of loose
papers, without any arrangement. Ile asked whether this
rate had been asked by the committee, or by the court of
, Record, and the answer of the secretary was, that he did
not know . • but some time afterwards he said he eon-
eluded that it was, inasmuch as the papers were
connected with the business of the committee.
He asked the secretary how they could manage to carry on
their business in that loose manlier without any entries or
records of their minutes. 'the answer was, that rough mi-
nutes were scot round to the commissioners, rough notes
were taken, and that he had to trust to his memory to
enter the orders on the records afterwards. That was the
way in which this commission lucted its business. Two
hours and thirty-live minutes were his noble friend and
himself togamd in examining these papers to obtain the
information they wanted, and which as ratepayers they had
a right to demand ; and would the house believe that it
required the secretary, and the lawyer to the com-
mission, and eight clerks to produce those papers,
in consequence of the disgraceful state of confusion
in which they were kept ? (llear, hear.) This was on
Tuesday last. From information he had received, he be-
lieved that this commission had been mi•ing a large sum of
money, 10,0001., from a Mr. (teach. He asked the secre-
tary if such were the fact, and required to see the minute
of the order for raising this loan. The house would be as-
tonished to hear that there was no minute of this circum-
stance. Thus it appeared that 10,0001. was borrowed by
this commission at five per cent., without any entry being
made in their book. Ile hesitated not to say that this was
a disgrace to the commission. Ile (Sir B. Hal) asked to we
the minutes from Jan. 1 to the present time. The secre-
tary told him that they had not been entered. Ile then
asked to see the rough minutes. The secretary said he
might see them, but he dill nut think they would make
anything of them, as they were so mixed up together and
with other papers, as to be almost unintelligible. Certainly
he had never seen any public documents in so disgraceful a
state as at this office of the commission, and he would advise
every ratepayer present to $(0 to the office and sec how
,public business woo there conducted. He hoped that what
he was now saying would reach the eyes and ears of rate-
payers out of the house, and that they would, a, they had a
right to do, go and demand to sec the minute's and
judge for themselves. Many of these minutes were
neither signed nor dated ; they were not authen-
ticated in any way ; yet they were for dealing
with and levying rates upon property to the amount of
8,000,0001. of. money. The secretary admitted that from
the Bth of January to that time no minutes hail been en•
tend in conformity with the act. With a view of being
accurate WI to what he should state. ho (Sir B. Hall) made
a minute of what he had been told, and read it over to
the secretary, who admitted its correctness. His noble
friend had stated the other night that it was intended to
raise 1,000,0001. on one side of the water, and 1;40,0001.
oa the other. That would require a rate of
Ts. in the pound ; and these enormous sums were
to be levied without any minutes or records. lie
wished to call attention to another point. He would not
say a fraud had been committed upon the house, but some-
thing like imposition had been practised, and he felt it his
duty to call attention to it, and he hoped his noble friend
would be able to afford some explanation. lie wished, in
the first place, however, to refer to a circumstance which
had occurred to a gentleman who went to the office of the
commission on the 17th of December, wishing to see the
minutes. He was told he could nut see the last series, fur
the minutes from the 21st of June to the faith of August
were in the hands of the binder, those from the 15th of Au-
gust to the 29th of October were in proof, and the minutes from
that date to December, had not been entered up.:(Hear.)
He would call attention to another circumstance to show
the disgraceful manner in which the commission acted
towards the public. For the sth July last a court was sum-
moned. No commissioner was present. The court is ad-
journed until Friday, the 12th. On that day no commis-
sioner was present—(hear, hear)—and the court adjourned
to the 19th. On the 19th no commissioner was present, and
there was another adjournment till the 26th. On the 26th
there was again no commissioner in attendance, and the
meeting was adjourned until the 2nd of August. This was
the way they carried on their business. (Hear.) People
went there to appeal against their rates, to answer sum-
monses, to make complaints, and when they got there
there was no commissioner in attendance. He would now
call attention to what took place last Saturday. A court
had been appointed, one of the most important courts that
could be held. The object of that court was to order
works, to hear appeals, to receive presentments
of nuisances, to all: the seal to the records, to
order summonses and other matters ; yet no court was
made, and the people who came there having been advised
that this important business would take place found that,
though these commissioners were taxing them so enormously,
they could not find time to make a court to hear their
appeals. Was this system to go on? (Hear, hear.) He
came now to the point in regard to which, he said, some-
thing like an imposition had been practised upon the house.
On the 14th of February the commission had ordered a
person, a Mr. Joseph Smith, to make a survey of the Vic-
toria sewer, that from which hon. members had experienced
so much annoyance during the last session, by the
pure
ping up of the soil in the immediate neighbours
hood. [The hon. baronet here read the heads of the report]

It was clear that they placed confidence in this Mr. Smith,
' but on the 28th of March he was informed of an extra-
. ' ordinary report made by this person, and he placed a notice
of motion upon the paper for its production. An order
o was made that it be produced. Three days afterwards the
court met, and he understood that they rated their en-
, o gineer for giving him, as they supposed, information on the
subject, and required him to make a report upon the report
: of the surveyor. On the Bth of April the engineer pre-
. seated that report. The house had ordered the original re-
port, but the report which was presented was this re-
vised report of the engineer. He wished to know flow
from his noble friend whether he would present
the original report, and not the concocted one.
That report wam in the office it was known.
. He trusted that what he had said wondol induce her Ma-
jesty's government to take some steps with regard to this
commission, for that commission was a diegrace to the me-
tropolis. The manner in which they kept their minutes
had led to one lamentable result, which was this—that
whereas the liabilities of the former commissioners
amounted when they tame into office to M 1,195,., the lia•
bilities of the present commissioners, owing to their misera-
ble management, amounted now to 135,3121. (Hear.) Ile
hoped the right honourable baronet the Secretary for !
! the Hume D4artment, would in accordance with the !
. wishes expressed by deputations at the Home-offiee, and by
certain of the metropolitan members who) had asked ques-
tion, respecting the commission in that house, bring in a
bill for the purpose of suppressing this useless, this extra-
vagant commiseion, and of pleasing the commissioners of
sewers upon a better forting; for, considering that there
were eight millions and a half of property upon which these
men raised aseeements, it was perfectly monstrous that
their powers of raising so large a sum should bent' an irre-
sponsible character. (Hear, hear.) If his noble friend
could deny the accuracy of these statements, let him do so
hut, if he denied that, let him recollect that he denied the
statements of his own secretary, not *hat he had read, be-
cause what he hail read had been taken down and authen-
ticated at the office of the Commissioners of Sewers.
(Cheers.)
Lord le BRINGTON said he had to solicit from the house
that indulgence which they always extended to those who
had to answer such charm., as hail been made on the pre-
sent occasion. (Hear, hear.) With the exception of the
last sentence but one of the hon. baronet—that in which
he expressed a wish that the commigsion should be placed on
a better footing—there was no ether single statement which
he should not lie obliged to deny, or give a different colour
to, iu the course of his explanation. Now, the first charge
which hail been made was, that the commissioners attended
hardly at all to the business of the commission. Upon this
point-he hail to refer the hon. baronet to the act, which
stated that the commissioners should hold one meeting in
the month; twelve meetings in the year. This was the
total number of meetings required by the act of parliament
to be held. The commissioners were only twelve in num-
ber, half of whom, by the clumsy legislation of
that house, were required to be present to con-
stitute a quorum. 'I he honourable baronet would
see, on reference, that the number of courts held bust
year was thirty-two, and that the number of committees
was seventy seven. (Hear, hear.) This gave an average
of rather mere than two courts for every month. These
courts were not primarily for the consideration of the bud-
nee+ of the commission: they passed those orders and deci-
sions which the commigeioners alter mature discussion and
consideration had pros' 1y agreed upon; and, therefore,
every single hour ope ort in these courts represented
a for greater number of hour spent in the de-
liberation and consideration of the business of the
commis-ion. (11o.ar, hear.) Now, in order to give
the house some idea of the mass of business frequently
transacted at one single court, it was necessary to state that
the printed minutes, 90 and 100 pages in length, had fre-
quently to be copied with the formal minutes of the pm-
ceedings of a single committee, and that the same number
of pages had to be copied with the original minutes. (Hear,
hear.) The commissioners, in addition to their other ar-
duous duties, were a court of justice also, entrusted with
very large and complicated jurisdiction. In the courts
at Wcenninster, the few short words of the judges,
" For the defendant," had to be translated by the
officer of the court into a longer minute; and
iu like manner a long translation had also to be
made at the office of the Comntissiuners of Sewers. What
was the course adopted by a very analogous body to the
commissioners---namely, the Court of Quarter
which consisted of a body of justices executing important
works, to:jug the public, an I at the sante time passing
judicial sentences. The hon. member for Oxfordshire (Mr.
Henley) knew that in the case of an indictment preferred
against the inhabitants of a parish for sou-repair, the
words of the court required subsequent expansion on
its records; and lie (Lord Eloringtoon) was acquainted
with a case in which that record had not been
intend for months afterwards, because it was found neces-
sary to take legal advice as to the manner in which the
record should ultimately stand. 'flue Commissioners of
Sewell hail no other object in slew but that of serving the
public. 'They were nut sineenrists receiving large salaries,
but they were a body of gentlemen, almost all of them,
having other public or private lousiness to attend to : and he
was only astonished at the large enema of time they !
le stowed on the enormous mass of business coming before
them. (Hear.) He had already said that the Commission
of Sewers WWI a newly-constituted booty acting under a
complicated act—an set of no fewer than 116 clauses. They
had to frame a new set of laws, fur they had no precedent
ander the out law of sewers to guide them. They found
the clauses of the act gave them power to do, many things ;
still, it became frequently necessary to take legal advice as
to the fonn in which the final record was to be entered on
the minute... The original record was kept in manuscript,
and, whenever any delay ensued from the difficulty of
ascertaining the shape in which the formal record
should be entered, it was found necessary to de-
lay the entry of all subsequent matters else. The
consequence was that, in cases where 100 pages of manu-
I script had to lie inserted from time to time, errors of the
sort mentioned by the hon. baronet were unavoidable, and
would necessarily continue to he unavoidable. For instance,
requisite notices had to be expanded in a complicated legal
form, several pages lung. (Hear, hear.) Now, it was
not true that minutes were not kept, and carefully kept,
'of the proceedings of the commission. The proceedings
of the commission originated in committee. ; in the
minutes of the committee were to he found almost invariably
all the recommendations on which the proceedings of the
court were founded ; and, when these pruceedinge were
agreed upon, the minutes of them were again salted to
the commissioners, for them to sanction and verify lx fore
they were finally recorded and sealed with the seal of the
commission. (Hear.) It was true that the report of the
Victoria-street sewer—the report of Mr. Smith—had box
received upon the same day that the commis/dotter' directed
their engineer to inspect the sewer and prepare a report on
that report. The engineer went to the committee of the
commissioners, and said he wished to consult thou on some
points connected with Mr. Smith's report, and he
brought a rough draft with him on the subject.
The committee told him to revise the draft,
said that they would not receive it in its rough
state, but that they would receive his report in its final
shape un some future day. He revised it accordingly, and
on a subsequent day presented it. 'Thee hon. baronet was,
therefore, not justified in saying that the report obtained
by the house was not a cornet report, fur, lung be fore the
time the order of the house was made—the 10th of April—
the engineer's report had been ordered. So much, then,
for the impropriety, or fraud, or evasion charged mem the
commies' •ro with reference to the order of the house.
(Hear.) Now, when he interruptedthe hon. baronet respect-
ing the alleged financial position of the commissioners, he did
so on this ground—that the statement did not contain its
financial position at present, though it did set forth accu-
rately its financial position at the time it bon date.. The
liabilities were what they appeared on the face of the papers
laid on the table of the house, but, at the present moment,
a very considerable reduction had been made iu them, a
great part of the rates having been now collected. (hear.)
The expenses of management for the former commission,
during the eleven months of 1847, averaged tie. Id. percent.
on the rental of the district within their active jurisdiction,
and the management expenses of the present commission
during six months of the past year had been 3s. I Id. per
cent. on the rental of their district. The clumsy legisla-
tion of the house had been such as to prevent persons front
lending money to the commission, and they had been
obliged to make a rate of Gel. in the pound for the pur-
pose of carrying on some most necessary works in
wretched streets in their district. They hail executed
works to the extent of 200,0001. last year ; and
their drainage north and south of the metropolis
had been done at a less cost than their predecessors had
paid. They had nothing to conceal. They invited investi-
gation into their proceedings; and if the hon. baronet would
bring forward a motion in a fair and tangible shape, and
take a vote of the house upon it, they would willingly ap-
peal from the vestry of Marylebone to the Commons of
England. (Cheers.)
Mr. HUME said that nothing which had fallen from the
noble lord who had just sat down would make up for the
irregularity with which the accounts were kept. (Hear,
hear.) The honourable baronet (Sir B. flail) had
not imputed criminality, but he had shown that
the accounts were in such a state of confusion as to
justify the complaints made by the inhabitant* of Maryle-
bone. (Hear.) He (Mr. Hume) thought that Victoria
sewer had been executed by the commissioners at an ex-
pense of SO per cent. above the estimate ; and therefore he
sincerely hoped that the government would inquire and
ascertain whether the hon. baronet's charges on the present
occasion were correct. (Hear, hear.)
Lord EBRINGTON cleaned that the accounts were in a
state of confusion.

The subject here dropped, and the motion that the house
at its rising should adjourn to Monday was put and
agreed to.
The house adjourned at a quarter to 8 o'clock.

PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEES.

IiARWICII ELECTION COMMITTEE.—YCSICIIIay, 011
the reassembling of this committee, Mr. K. Seymer in the
chair, Mr. James, Q.C., for the petitioners said they had
now disposed of ►ll those votes polled fur Mr. Prinsep, ob-
jected to on registration grounds of non-residence and in-
sufficient value, and had to proceed with the more serious
I portion of the case, namely, the second class of votes ob-
jected to, containing the names of a number of voters who
were charged to have been corruptly influenced to vote for
Mr. Prinsep. The first cue was that of William Pinner,
who was charged with having been so influenced to vote by
Mr. Attwood or his agents. According to parliamentary
precedent in making out a case to disqualify a voter, it was
only necessary to prove that he was corruptly influenced,

without establishing in proof that it was done by agents of
' the sitting member. Pinner had promised to vote fur Mr.
Crauford, and when that qoutleman called upon him,
Intimated that as he was in difficulties, he should be
willing to receive pecuniary consideration for this vote
which he proffered. Mr. Crauford declined, and subse-
quently he bad interviews with Mr. Attwood and his
agents ; and on the occasion of the return of Sir J. C. Hub-
house, Pinner had joined in a petition to the House of
Commons, complaining that the electors hail been unable
to exercise their franchise freely and that all the tenants
of Mr. Attwood ran the risk of and
ejected unless the
voted fur his nominee. Witnesses Baker, Jones, and clad:
ding
_depoail to l'inner's having originally promised to vote
for Mr. Cruder], proffering his vote fur pecuniary consi-
deration, and that, after he had seen Mr. Aftworal, his in-
tention was changed ; and after the election I'inncr said
he should have his bill paid for the repair of a boat either
by Mr. Attwood or by J. Pinner, his brother, if Mr. Att-
wood could nut do it. Mr. M. Smith replied upon the evi-
dence, and shortly before four o'clock the room was cleared,
and, upon re-admission, the committee intimated they
would reserve their decision till to-day.
GREAT CESTRAL GAS (7oNsONIERS' COMPANT.—Yester-
, day this committee, consisting of Mr. B. Denison (chairman),
Mr. Matheson, Mr. Monsell, Mr. Jackson, and Mr. B. Coch-
rane, reassembled. The chairman said that since the lust meet-
' ing the committee had consaltvsl the Speaker with reference
to the decision they had come to of a lowing the City gas
companies a locus standi against the bill ; and the Speaker
had apprised them that the opponents of the measure were
not entitled too locus unless they could first of all satisfy the
committee that the works proposed by the bill at Si.!
damaged the corpus of their property. Mr. Burke, fur
the City companies, contended at considerable length
that not only had the pipes and mains of the new company
damaged those of the old severely, but that they would con-
tinue to do so. Mr. Serjt.Wranghatu, Q.C., fur the promoters,
replied that if injury was done there were penal provisions
in the bill for redress. After considerable deliberation, the
committee having decided on granting the city (»wenn s
a locus stand), Mr. Talbot, Q.C.. on their behalf, in a long
address, called on the committee to dismiss the bill, on the
ground, amongst others, that the promoter; of the under-
taking had, by means ofobtaining the consent of the commis-
, loners of sewers, already become a self-eonstittited com-
pany:and had in fact gone to work and established themselves
without parliamentary sanction,which was now only sought
for the purpose of obtaining limited liability, which with-
out an act of incorporation they could not possess. The
room having been c.eared, after the lapse of half an hour,
the public were re-admitted, and the committee declared
the preamble of the bill proved.

PARLIAMENTARY DIVISION.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES ASSUMPTION BILL.
Order rend for resuming Adpureed Debits on noes' ion (9th May)
'• That Mr. eyeelter do now te.me the eheir." tl•a.uon again
proposed. Debate resumed. UtLext 00 put. The hutiee divided :
Ayes, 111 ; Noes, 33.