The Express.
London, England, 1851-11-06 00:00:00

ST. ALBANS BRIBERY COMMISSION.

The commissioners resumed their inquiry at half-
past 10 yesterday morning.
Mr. Lew re.examined—The parties I employed I paid
in consideration of their having influence with the
voters; they were voters themselves. If a man had no
influence in the borough, it would be of no use em-
ploying him as an agent. I paid Mr. Webster and the
other agents on account of their services. 1 should have
paid them quite as much for their services if they had not
had votes. Mr. Webder made out a bill of 301. for expen-
diture. I paid hint 211. This was not for money which he
paid away ' • his bill for expenditure might possibly hive
been a blind. (The bill for 301. was here read in court.) I
i considered the demand too much, Alderman Carden not
having been successful ; and I told him that I did nut feel
justified in paying him more than 211. It is very difficult
to say what I should have done bad Alderman Carden been
successful. I might then have thought that 301. was not
too much. Mr. Webster was very active in the canvass.
I am quite sure that 20/. is the whole amount which
Mr. Vass received from me, or from any person acting for
me. When I paid him that amount he was perfectly &Ail-
tied. I paid Mr. Blanks altogether 881. 13s. His home was
the head-quarters, and the money was paid for refreshments.
He disbursed only dl., which soul was paid early in the can-
vass. I did nut consider it dangerous to pay money ton voter
for services after he had promised his vote. There was nu
danger at former elections in paying large sums for votes.
There used to be no danger. f thought Alderman Carden
had not much chance of success.
Mr. rhinn—Did you persevere with the ultimata object
of presenting a petition?
The wituess—l cannot exactly say. A petition was con-
templated by us before the polling day, hut we had nut
formally decided on it. A dinner was ordered for our can-
vassers at the Pea-hen fun, but I countermanded the

order, and I thought that a 'very retuiraable instance of
purity. (Laughter.) I was afraid that it would be con-
'trued into treating. Mr. Blanks behaved in an ex-
ceedingly honourable manner. He did not threaten to
give inlormation to the other tide if the bill was not
paid, nor did he mention the name of Mr. Edwards.
Nothing was paid through my hands to George
Gooch. lie was in the band, and must have
been paid. Here is a bill for 311. 11s. for the
band (producing it). Ile must have had a part of that.
There was another bill for the band of 341. 16s. ; that in-
eluded a dinner. It has already been given in evi-
dence that the police were bribed by Mr. Bell's party,
and we had to {my men to protect our band and flags.
John Hartwell, jun., received 61.54. for flag-poles. We
had six or eight Hogs. 21. by. was paid to Richardson
for similar articles. 1 find 91. fa. set down as being
paid to St. Peter's ringers. John l'ayue is a ringer, 1
believe. There is a bill of 121. for advertising and qa-
tionery, paid to the proprietors of the t'ounty Hamill. 1 I
paid another printer 141. odd for work done. As I men-
tioned
the other day, Alderman Carden wished every one to
be paid liberally, but that had no reference to Mr. Bowen
and Mr. Var. 1 said that Mr. Bowen received 51. ;
1 should have said 71. 10s. We endeavoured to canvass
every one. I went from house to house with Ald. Carden.
A great many of the voters told us they had already promised
Mr. Bell. I don't think any of t .ein intimated
that they were open to a larger offer ; or that it would have
occurred to their minds that that would be of any use.
During the canvass Mr. Blanks and Mr. Webster sent to me
to another room to ask what they were to have, either Mr.
Vass or Mr. Bowen being present. 1 said 1 could not
listen to anything of the kind.
Mr. Blagg, town clerk, then entered the box, and ex-
pressed a wish to vindicate himself from some imputations
made upon him on the previous day.
Mr. Slade said he could not consent to his going into any
personal matters. What had been said of that kind had
made no impression on the minds of the commissioners.
Mr. Blagg said in consequence of some observations of
Mr. Bennett he wished to observe that he was entirely un-
connected with the third party. The third party consisted
of persons who had no political creed, but were always
anxious for a contest on account of tome expected ad-
vantages.
Mr. l'hinn—What is the strength of the third party ?
Mr. Blagg—The third party in 18i7 consisted probably of
from 200 to 220 voters. Since Dr. Webster's death it has
had no ostensible leader. Mr. Blanks, Mr. Webster, and
Mr. Simpson, have taken the most active part of late. The
third party could determine the election in favour of any
candidate they pleased. I believe they could have returned
a conservative candidate at the last election. I have never
known an instance of the third party returning two candi-
dates. The Spencer party and the third party returned two
in 1831. The conservative party was always very strong,
and was always opposed to the third party. The third party
often gave one vote to a conservative and one to a whig.
The rough committee was founded for the management of
the municipal elections. They had interfered with the par-
liameatary elections also, and had belonged to the conser-
vative party for the last five or six years. The parties wore
well known as " the rough committee." They were a
good deal under my direction, particularly at the muni-
cipal election.. I used to direct their movements. The
members of " the rough committee" were George
Taylor, William Norris, Wm. Didd, Joseph Leann, Thos.
Hatton, Hon. J. Hillyard, Geo. Davis, L. Caleb Crew, and
James Everett—in all nine persons.
Mr. Slade—l should like to understand this rough com-
mittee, beanie it seems to be one of the peculiar features of
thecae?
The witness—The term "rough committee" was a nick-
name. I don't know how vacancies in the body were
supplied. They are persons who know all the voters, and
whom I have found very useful at elections. The word
"rough" has no reference to their practice. They have al-
ways been paid for their services according to the season;
I mean the length of the election. I have given them 10/.
each at an election. Mr. Rumball said I was the only con-
servative who voted for Mr. Bell. On going through the
poll-book I find that 75 conservatives did so, and if they had
all voted for Ald. Carden, instead of Mr. Bell, the alderman
would have bad a majority of 21. The statement of Mr.
Edwards as to the part taken by himself and Mr. Simpson
at the general election in '47 is mainly and substantially
correct. My view is that the liberal and the conservative
parties are as nearly divided as possible, and have been for
many years. There are many electors who divide their
votes so as to offend neither party. The conservatives are
generally strongest at a single election. Before the Reform
Hall passed, every voter who had given a plumper received
two guineas, and every voter who gave a single vote re-
ceived one guinea. The money was paid openly, and every
one would have considered himself defrauded if be had not
received the money. At that time, too, there was a very
extensive system of treating. After the enactment of the
Reform Bill, the payment of the guineas and the treating
erred.
iMy experience since has led me lathe belief that the
rs new votentroduced by the Reform Bill are more venal than
the old voters. The scot and lot voters would have been
eontented with 51. where the new voters would have
wanted 101. At the election of '3l, 623 electors voted,
rtaiorain ttfereloow eorfe whomonl erevotenrson.-res
AitdanenytelecAttiotnhetLasret
were probably not more than 173 or 200 voters who were
not indrectly paid. The number polled on the last occa-
sion was 423, leaving about 60 who did not vote. Out of
354 ten-pound voters 212 got paid; 65 out of the 66 seat
and lot voters arc paid, and 31 out of 63 freemen. This
gives a total of 308 who are paid ; leaving 175 who
are not influenced by pecuniary considerations. Of
the three denominations of voters, I should say the free-
men are the purest. Of the 173 who do not receive money,
74 would vote for a conservative candidate tomorrow,
without any solicitation, and 44 for a whig candidate. This
I say from experience. At the last election, Alderman
Carden polled 147 votes. I have gone through the list,
at previous elections. I cannot say at pre-
sent I am satisfied that 56 out of that number had received
of the 75 and the 44 Alderman
.mnonteyhow
many
Carden got. Some of the 74 conservatives would
vote for a whig candidate in virtue of the compact.
At the last vacancy I consulted with Mr. Gape, and it was
considered advisable that we should not interfere in the
election as we had our own representative, Mr. Reton4
and also that there would soon be a general election. Lord
Verulam exacted a promise from Mr. Repton that he would
not in any way countenance bribery • and he was returned
at an unusually small expense. I endeavoured to cheek
the s_ystem as much as possible. I understood Mr. Bi-
war& to say that, without a contest, it would only haw
been necessary to pay a portion of the electors.
The Commissioners (to Kr. Edwards)—How is that, ILL
Edwards ?
Noltssisp—Only those would have been paid who bed
Pilmosaindli" auli thefirst packet would have bees
gift% CialleMer.)

Mr. Phinn—Would you not have been obliged to pay
enough to prevent dissatisfaction ?
Mr. Edwards—Yes.
Mr. Forsyth—ln fact, they required the money to keep
them quiet.
Mr. Blapg-1, es.
Mr. Phinn—lf the parties had understood one another
in proems of time they might have destroyed the system ?
Mr. Blau—Yee. Ihe only two places at which candi-
dates can be got are the Treasury and the Carlton Club. I
have myself been to the latter place. I never saw Mr. Bell
before he came down to St. Albans. I had a conversation
with Mr. Coppoek before the last vacancy, and there was
an understanding that there should be no contest in future.
There was a thorough understanding between Mr. Coppock
and myself on that point, and I hail it ratified by the heads
of my party. I received about six applications from con-
servatives who wished to become candidates, but I told
them that Mr. Bell was already, in the field, and the coa-
-1 pact must be faithfully adhered to. I was indebted to Mr.
• Edwards for Mr. Repton's return at the last election, and I
thought that the nest time I must serve him in the same
manner. if the compact had been kept at the last election,
these practices would have Leen avoided. I gave offence to
some ceuservatives by not communicating the compact to
them. Had I done so, it would have Leen said
that the borough was being shut up by Mr. Blagg,
and a key would have been set up to signify that, as on
similar occasions before. The setting up of the banner of
purity at the last election was a hypocritical pretence; fur
Alderman Carden was first brought down by the
notorious third party. I gave saute of the voters
and others 51. [Witness here read a list con-
taining the names of the several voters, with the
amounts paid to each, and entered into explanations of the
different items.] The amounts were all paid by me before
Alderman Carsten arrived. Having been a party to the
compact with Mr. Bell, I took au interest in his return,
and, by means of my private influence, I induced many
persons to vote for him. Until the day of nomination it
was not known which way I intended to vote. Previously
I did not mean to vote at all; my doing so was the result
of a charge made against me en the hustings that 1
pocketed money by refraining from voting._ None of the
clergy and dissenting ministers voted for Mr. Bell. The
conservative party generally were not parties to the com-
pact; it was confined to those who usually guided them.
In l 83.: I lost 2,1601. by the contest of Mr. Turner, who
subsequently left the country. I have never received a
farthing. At all the elections in which I have taken part
I have received only three agency fees, amounting, toge-
ther, to WU _ .

Sir it. Carden then deposed as follows was the unauc-
eessful candidate for St. Albans at the last election. I Can
hardly tell when I was first apprised of the vacancy ; but
one morniug, while I was sitting its my office, a gentleman
called and asked me whether I was desirous of a seat in
parliament. That gentleman was Mr. Tucker, of the firm
of Tucker and Stephenson, Sun-court, Threadneedle-street.
I did nut know him previously. I said I had some thoughts
of it. lie said he knew a place that would just suit me,
but he did not mention the name of it. Two thou-
sand five hundred pounds was, he said, the sum
that would be required. I said I was not inclined to
give any cam at all. I asked what was the proper sum,
Mr. Tucker said " You must not ask questions, but con-
fide in persons." I said 1 would not confide so large a
sum to anybialy ; that, although I was desirous to enter
parliament, I had no desire to pay for entering it. Mr.
Tucker observed, " You can't get any place without paying
money." " I replied. " 1 never shall pay." Mr.
Tucker then went away. lie afterwards returned and
mentioned a smaller sum. I said I would not pay sixpence.
Another party, Mr. Pocock, came to me and mentioned
5001. I said I would nut give 500 shillings if it was to be
appropriated as I supposed. I imagined that the money
required was to be applied to an improper purpose, and
theretbre declined to advance it. I inferred from what
occurred afterwards that Mr. Pocock came from Mr.
'rocker's office. Oa hearing the name " SLAlbam" I hesi-
tated to have anything to do with the matter. Mr. I'ocoek
told me, however, that a deputation had come up from St.
Albans, and wished very much to see me; and I said though
1 would rather not have anything to do with the matter, yet,
if the deputation bad come up, and was close by, it would
tie uncourteous perhaps, for me not to see them. I did see
them, and amongst them were Mr. Vass, Mr. Bowen, and
Mr. Alderman Nash. I asked them to sit down, and to
enter freely into the state of affairs at St. Albans. I in.
formed them that I had told the parties who had been to
me previously that I would not spend • single shilling in
anything like bribery. I thought the deputation very im-
maculate and pure, as some of its members no doubt were ;
but subsequent proceedings led me to believe that some of
them were chiefly influenced by their desire for a contest.
IThey talked of the stigma which hail so lung attached to
the borough of St. Albans, and said there was a determina-
tion on the part of the borough to emancipate it-
self from thraldom ; the electors knew they were
the laughing stuck of all the counties and boroughs,
in fact of the whole of England. and if a gentle.
man would come down on purity principles, and pledge
himself that no money should be spent in influencing the
voters, he would receive the sanction of a majority of the
electors. I said, " Oentletuen, everybody knows what the
borough of St. Albans is, and though I should like to be the
first purity member for a century, I still doubt whether you
have purity enough to elect any person as your member
unless he has a long pone, and will distribute his money
liberally." They said, "We have got a requisition (pull- I
i ing out • paper), n which the parties signing pledge them-
selves to support a candidate who will not attempt to
influence the voters by money." On my remarking that it
was signed by only 4i persons, they said it was got up
in a hurry, and they would have a requisition by the fol-
lowing day numerously as well as respectably signed.
Mr. Slade—Wero you questioned about your political
principles ?
Sir IL Carden—Some discussion did take place on that
subject ; but you know it is all a farce to talk about politi-
cal principles at St. Albans. I venture tossy that if his sa-
tanic majesty were to present himself as almnilidate, and
Messrs. Blagg and Edwards were his agents, as I have no
doubt they would be, his politics would have nothing to
do with the result. A man's politics in St Albans'
are his breeches pocket. I received a second requi-
sition, and the gross number of signatures attached
was 101. The deputation told me that there were a great
number of parties in St. Albans who would never sign a
document of that description, but who were willing to sup-
port my cause, provided I would rigidly stick to my an-
ginal intention of not giving money to anybody. Feeling
almost that I really was to be the first honest member, or I
should rather say the first member brought in by the
honest voters in the constituency, though I hesitated for
some time, I was at last almost forced to come down. The
nest morning I was told that a document had been pla-
carded all over the town, announcing that I was to make
my triumphal entry into St. Albans on the morning of the
following day, and holding a respe-table station in the City
of London, I did not after that like the thought of draw-
ing back. The reception] I met with in St. Albans was
most flattering ; it gave me reason to think that all the
hopes which had been held out to me would be fully real-
ised. In the first place, out of 16 town councillors, 10 did
me the honour of walking arm-in-arm before my carriage.
I should state that of the sixteen twelve voted for
me ; two voted against me, and two were neutral.
Five clergymen of the church of England voted for me, and
no dissenting minister voted with me. In fact, Ido not
hesitate to say that nearly all the respectability of St. Albans
was on my side. In canvassing the borough, the first per-
son whom I saw was Mr. Bell. He said to me, "What is
the use of your coming here ? You have no chance ; 1 have
a majority of votes promised." I replied—" It you have, I
have been sadly deceived." The price of votes rose, I was
told, from 21. 10s. to 101. during the first day. In the con-
versation, which I have just mentioned, I said " I'll tell
you what, Mr. Bell, if you'll keep your breeches-pocket
closed, I'll promise to do the same, and I'll beat you by
three to one.' I thought Mr. Bell was not likely, from his
position, to command a majority of votes, unless some im-
proper means were adopted. Bendel, I knew who his agent
was, and there is a saying, " Tell me a man's friends, and
I'll tell you what he is himself."
Mr. Slade—Did you know Mr. Edwards?
Sir ft. Carden—No. But I had heard of him. It was
notorious that bribery was going on. I was told that it was
no nee going to so and an, because his price wan 104 I
had no application made to me for money during my
canvass, with the exception that some young women said
it had always been usual to bring them a blue ribbon,. or
something of that kind. Several persons asked me during
my canvass whether I intended to hold fast by the principle
upon which I had come down, and Ido not know whether
mine of those who invited me to come down to rescue the
borough were not of the number. (Laughter.) Many
voters held back, on various excuses, until the election, as
lam told is the practice at St. Albans, because the nearer
the end of the poll the more valuable is the vote. An
anecdote was related to me during the canvass which illus-
trates the character of the electors generally. A promised
B lot. to vote for a certain candidate. B was afterwards
canvassed for a second candidate, and got 101. from him for
his vote. Well, being in this dilemma, and not liking to
break his promise, he got another party to give him 101.
not to vote at all ; and after the election ho boasted of
Laving fulfilled his last promise. (Laughter.) Oar man
whom I canvassed said to me—" Well, now, Sir, it is all
very well, I approve of your principles, having always been
a conservative, and I should like to give you my vote. But,
look round this room, here arc six or seven children ; I
am seeking to give them bread, sad I cannot re-
did an offer of a fire or ten pound note." I
said to the electors generally—" You are destroying
Use trade of the town, by creating an ill feeling against it.
For the last fifty years it has cost gentlemen from five to
len, twenty, and even thirty thousand pounds a piece to
become your member; and what is the effect of this?
What did Mr. Raphael say when a voter asked a favour of
bias ? • Boit ask favours of me ; I have bought you all,
sad I'll buy you again ; I pay for your votes. " I said,
"Depend upon it, so long as that system continues, your
trade will keep getting lower and lower ; whereas, if you
elect a member without requiring him to pay for his seat,
be will do his duty, and raise the town to the state in which
It ought to be."
Mr. Flian—Do you know whether or not any of your
reloads pad anything on your behalf ?
Sir B. Clarden—l am not aware of one single sixpeeme
having boss ePCIII. directly or indirectly, except through
Mr. Low. 1 said that if there were a hundred
voters, and I could get them all for • shilling, I would
not give • shilling for them. Half an hour after I made
that declaration they flocked ,to the poll in shoals for Mr.
Bell.
Mr. Slade—Did you see Mr. Bell during the canvass ?
Sir It. Carden—Yes, I used to meet him occasionally, but
very seldom.
Mr. Slads--Did you ever charge him with what was
going on ?
Si: A. Carden—No.

Mr. Slade—Why did you not, when you had come down
on purity principles?
Sir It. Carden—lt was not my business to do so. I did
any to Mr. Dell on the day of hts election, when I saw him
taking off his hat to the electors and thanking them, " Mr.
]fell, it is disgusting to hear you thanking. men fur doing
what you hare paid them so liberally for."
Mr. Slade—Did Mr. Bell make no answer?

—..—
Sir Si. Carden—No; and I concluded from that that thero
had been bribery.
Mr. Phinn—Was your election conducted with an ulti-
mate view to a petition ?
Sir IL. Carden —I pledged myself at the hustings to have
the matter examined into by the House of Commons. I
was prepared to spend any amount of money to have it
fairly sifted there.
Mr. Gresham (to Sir R. Carden)—Did you hear me on the
morning of the poll publicly charge Mr. Dell with bribery?
Sir R. Carden—l think I did hear you.
Mr. Gresham—There was no answer, was there?
Sir It. Carden—My impression is that it rather created
an angry fee.ing on the part of some of Mr. Dell's ad-
herents.

Dir. Forayth—We are much obliged to you for the
manner in which you have given your evidence, Sir
Robert. _ _

Sir It. Cirden (bowing as he retired)-0, I need no cer-
tificate. -

Mr. Phinn (to Mr. Simpson)—Did you Mier the repre-
sentation of the borough to anybody ou 'Ow couatrrative
side besides Alderman Carden ?
Mr. Simpson—Certainly nut.
Mr. Phinn—Had you men any one on the liberal side?
Mr. Simpson—Yes, Mr. Thomas Chambers, a gentleman
resident at Hortford.

Mr. Phinn—Did you mention to him any sum ?
Mr. Situirson—l made the same representation to Mr.
Chambers as I did to Mr. Bruce. I said that by an
expenditure of from four to five hundred pounds he would
be enabled to ascertain the probability or otherwise of
his success, and only then could I tell him what was likely
to he required. I think I told him tit the expenditure
would be limited to 1,0001. I alwi culled upon Mr. Norton
a barrister. Mr. Simpson then entered, with the permis-
sion of the commissioners, into some drtsils with regard to

the nlleged offer of Ida 11V;'U, to Sir P.. Carden for 201.,
declaring that he had not made any such an coffer, hating,
indeed, Mien precluded (ruin taking any part by a domestic
calamity, and that. an far from soliciting anything. he had
declined to accept 250/. (diem' to him by Mr. Coppock.
The court then adjourned until half-past 10 o'clock this
day.

THE JUDGE OF THE LIVERPOOL COUNTY

COURT.

LORD CARLISLE'S COURT OF INQUIRY.

l'ltEs'aN, Nov. 5,

At ten o'clock this morning the Em of Carlisle,
accompanied by Mr. Ellice (the Attorney-General of tho
duchy of Lancaster) and Mr. F. Dawes Danvers (his were-
tory), took his seat on the bench in the court-house here,
to inquire into the conduct of William liainshay, Esq.,
judge of the Liverpool County Court.
Amongst the magistrates present on the bench were W.
a. Shaw e, Esq.; llairstowe, Esq. ; Thoams Batty Addi-
son, klsq. ; Richard Newshain, Esq. ; Marshall,
Esq. ; Ashton, Esq.; Dr. Winstonley: and many others.
'ale attendance in the bode of the court was very scanty,
there not being more than inn persons present at the open-
ing of the court; but during the day the audience increased
until the court because inconveniently crowded.
Fur the memorialists Mr. Monk and Mr. Tindal Atkin-
son were engaged as counsel; and for Mr. Iteiushay the
advocates were Mr. Serjeant Wilkins, Mr. Ovens, Mr.
Sowler, and Mr. Thorburne.

The proceedings were opened by Mr. Danvers reading
the memorial presteuted by the inhabitants of Liverpool,
signed by upwards of 3, 'A persons. It complained gene-
rally of the conduct of Mr. Mainshay, ant utter detailing
several instances of misconduct prayed for the removal of
the gentleman from his office.
Mr. Monk stated that the promoters of the inquiry had
no power to compel the attendance of witnes.ce. Several
attorneys and other parties felt some delicacy in attending,
which would be removed if his lordship would express en
opinion on the subject.
The Earl of Carlisle did not apprehend that he had any
power to compel the attendance of witnesses but it was his
wish that any one whose evidence was thought material by
either party should attend to give evidence.
Mr. Monk, utter remarking that his lordship had the
power to remove Mr. ltamshay from his office, either for
inability or misconduct iu the discharge of his duties, com-
menced a detail of the proceedings of Mr. ltamshay from
the time of his appointment on the 2ith August last to the
time of the preeentation of the memorial, expressing his
regret that a judge should have been actuated by such feel-
ings as had been displayed by Mr. ltamshay in the discharge
of his official duties.
Mr. Serjeant Wilkins trusted that his learned friend would
confine his observations to the accusation contained in the
memorial—namely, the lining and imprisonment of Mr.
M. J. Windy, which charge Mr. ltamshay was fully pre-
pared to meet. It would lie quite impossible fur Mr. Ham-
shey's resources to meet charges exteuding over et, lung a
period.
The Earl of Carlisle expressed a hope that no unnecessary
matter would be introduced into the inquiry.
Mr. Munk read a great number of speeches delivered by
Me. ltamshay whilst presiding in court, in which he charged
the people of Liverpool with attempting to goad him to mad-
ness, with making malicious commentaries upon everything
he did, end with misrepresenting his mutivet on every occa-
sion. Such remarks (the learned counsil observed) showed
that the temper of Mr. ltamshay quite unfitted him for
the office of judge, and that he was incapable of discharging
his duties in an impartial and satisfactory manner. He
then narrated the events attending the committal of Mr.
Whitty, the proprietor of the Liverpool Journal, for the
publication of a placard stating that amongst other articles
the Journal contained one headed "Mr. Mainstay's opinion
of the people of Liverpool." The learned gentleman en-
tered very minutely into the details of that transaction, and
read the whole of the shorthand writer's notes of the pro•
ceedings which took place on that occasion. In the course
of the discussion which then then arose, Mr. ltamshay said
he had decided ten or twelve thousaud eases, and had no
doubt he had made ten or twelve thousand t nemies. That
certainly was an extraordinary statement for a judge to
make; and he must possess a singular/mind, inthtsl, who
could imagine that every decision which lie gave raised
him an enemy. lie (Mr. Musk) could readily imagine
how a judge might make an enemy. For instance, ho
might make himself an enemy by giving a decision after
hearing one side of the question only, and refusing to hear
the other. He also might make an enemy by laying down
a rule in a particular ease, nut to allow costs when the
claim was under 10t. Cases of that description lie under-
stood he should be able to prove Wore the close of the
inquiry.
Mr. Serjeant Wilkins inquired on what part of the me-
morial his learned friend rested that part of his charge ?
Mr. Monk replied on that portion of the memorial which
charged Mr. ltamshay with unfitness fur his office, and
prayed for a general inquiry into his conduct since his
former acquittal.
The Earl of Carlisle did not think it desirable to open any
am involving wrong decisions on points of law.
Mr. Ellis understood the learned gentlemau to say that
Mr. ltamshay might have given such mid such decisions as
would have made him enemies.
Mr. Monk replied in the affirmative, and intimated that
be would act on the suggestion of the court.
Mr. Serjeant Wilkins said that Mr. ltamshay had desired
him to ask the names of the cases referred to.
Mr. ltamshay observed, that he was anxious that en in-
quiry should be instituted into every part of his conduct.
Mr. Monk rammed : The only offence with which Mr.
Whitty was charged was the publication of the line in the
placard to which he had already referred. That was the
offence for which the fine hint been imposed, and for the
non-payment of which he was afterwards committed to
Lancaster Castle. Now, if Mr. ltamshay possessed the
power which he had exercised, it must be under the statute,
and it would rest with his learned friend to show haw far
his client was justified in the course he had pursued.
Mr. Ellis—You say the common law recognises no such
powers. You mean, I suppose, as to inferior courts ?
Mr. Monk apprehended that such power was not pos-
sessed by either inferior or superior courts. If a man com-
mitted a disrespectful act while the court was sitting he
was amenable to its powers. If, however, he should do
something out of court at which the court might feel
aggrieved, but which had no reference to the matter
sub judiee, the tribunals of the country were open. The
learned gentlemen then adverted to the committal of other
parties fur the display of feeling which they manifested
during the hearing of the case of Mr. Whitty, particularly
referring to the caste of Brown and Caldwell, the former of
whom was committed seven days for contempt, and the latter
fined al., Mr. ltamshay remarking that as he seemed a more
respectable person than the other he would give him the
option of paying the fine instead of committing him at once.
Such a course of proceeding was not at all likely to maintain
the dignity or honour of the court over which Mr. ltamshay
presided. The next case adduced by the learned counsel
was that of a person who was lined lax. for putting his hat
on hi an outer room adjoining the county court, where Mr.
ltamshay was sitting. The fine was afterwards reduced to
51., but the poor man being unable to pay it was committed
for two days to Lancaster Castle. In pronouncing his de-
cision in the case of Mr. Whitty, the language of Mr. Item-
shay was moat extraordinary, fur in imposing the fine upon
that gentlemen, he observed that he looked like a man in
the unfortunate temper of Mr. ltamshay was displayed in
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the case of young j, two days afterwards, who was
charged with having committed an assault on a person
named Joyce, who accompanied the bailiff to the house of
Mr. Whitty. In pronouncing judgment in that case, Mr.
Ramshay said he was not certain what was to be done &boat
Joyce, who had been attacked in such a manner, but if he
should brine an action, and lay his damages at 501., he
gt.ailretasinshay) did not think he should be able to cut those
down. Such a remark as that WAS actually pre-
judging the case. The learned gentleman hare observed
that he was desirous of consulting the conveuience of the
court, as far as possible' and suggested the propriety, of call-
ing witnesses to complete that part of the ease which ho had
already opened, severing it altogether frum the case of young
Whitey.
Mr. Serjeant Wilkins requested his lordship to have the
entire case which Mr. Ramshay would have to answer
at ones before his but perhaps be would permit an ad-
immune's% far ten minutes.
To this proposition his lordship acceded, it being agreed
that Mr. Tindal Atkinson should resume the case on behalf
of the memorialists, proceeding with the reporter's notes on
the ease of Mr. Wnitty, jun. The reading of these deft-
ments had not terminated at a We hour last night.