The Express.
London, England, 1851-02-18 00:00:00

stamp duties in Ireland, granted by two acts passed in the
sixth pear other prevent Majesty, and which have been
continued and amended by several subsequent acts, shall
be further continued for a time to be limited."

Mr. HERRIES having briefly remarked upon the im-
portance of the subject, and the necessity of giving it a ma-
ture consideration,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL agreed to take the discussion on
Friday next.
Mr. HUME thought it right that time should he given to
consider, not only the statements which the right hon. gen-
tleman had made, but his omissions also. Ile regretted
that the right hon. gentleman was not prepared to make'
any reductions in the establishment of the country, the esti-
mates he had given them being within 150,0001. of those of
last year. They were told that because two million of men
had appeared in arms somewhere that this country could
make no reductions in the army. He knew no reason why the
Canadians should not govern themselves. The clergy re-
serves had been given up to them. He thought it became
a question whether we were to keep up establishments
there. They were quite unnecessary, and he was in-
formed that if we gave them up the Canadians would not
maintain them for one day. The question was whether the
country wan satisfied with the expenditure amounting to
54,000,000/., which, including the costs of collection, was
the amount, and whether the house would take any steps to
effect a reduction in our civil and military establishments.
With regard to the window tax it was quite right to remove
it, but he must say, as to the house tax, that while they had
been spending years in simplifying taxation, the pro-
posed house tax was of a most complex nature, and he
thought it would be a year before the regulations could be
brought into operation. He trusted that the house would
repeal the wit.dow tax and not impose the house tax. With
regard to coffee he thought the reduction proposed was a
wise one, and that it was better to have one duty on both
foreign and colonial. He also thought that the right hon.
gentleman was acting wisely in refusing to put an excise
duty upon chicon-. As to timber, the only objection he
had was, that the reduction did not go fax enough.
It was also proposed to reduce the duty on agricul-
tural seeds. He had only been surprised that country
gentlemfig had been so long silent on that head. They
constituffirl a raw material, but a most important material ;
and in 1842 he expressed his regret that the duty on
Weds was not taken off. Ile hoped that country gentlemen
would see the importance of having seeds at as low a price
as possible. With regard to pauper lunatics he could not
see why they should become a charge upon the public any
more than other local charges. The result of the measures
taken by Sir Robert Peel and Lord Althorp in relieving
counties of the expenses of prosecutions, haul shown the
want of wisdom of such measures. That which coat 11.
before, now cost 41. or 51. The government had no check
or control ; it rested with the county magistrates, and not
with them entirely, as from the evidince of the chief con.
stable of Stockport it appeared that there were parties
interested in every county in carrying on prosecutions.
Ile entirely disagreed with the right hon. gentleman RA to
applying any portion of the surplus to pay off the debt.
The paper manufacture was one which might give employ-
ment to thousands, and might become as extensive a manu-
facture as any in the country, not only for our own use but
for foreign supply. With the means and materials which
this country possess, it might become as prosperous a manu-
facture as any we had. The employment it would give,
and the mischiefs it would prevent, acre incalculable.
It would be much better to repeal the duty on paper, then
to apply so much of the surplus in buying up stock,
an operation which was sure to be attended by
a loss as on a former occasion, when the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer had funded at 86 per cent. and hail
purchased again at 00, thus causing a loss of about 250,000/.
(Hear, bear.) This was no time for throwing away 230,000/.
in such an operation. He was as great an advocate as any
one for maintaining the public faith ; but he would not
apply a surplus; in paying off the debt when it might he de-
voted to a better purpose. How much better would it have
been to have repealed the duty on soap log year than to
have bought up 1,200,000/. of Three per Cents ? (Hear,
hear.) Why not let the consumer have the full benefit of
that competition which we had declared should be the
principle of our fiscal system, by repealing all the taxes on
the products of industry ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—WouId
the hen. gentleman go the length of repealing all tuxes ?
(Laughter.
Mr. llt-)IF. said the right bon: baronet greatly misre-
presented him. lie slid not say let all taxes be repealed :
that was the argument of fools out of doors. (Hear, hear.)
But he contended that the application of the surplus ought
to be so regulated as to remove the existing impedimenta to
the employment ,if industry and the investment of capital,
for the beneficial employment of which every outlet was
needed. Ti, buy up any portion of the debt, with these
objectionable taxes existing, would be extremely imprudent.
Viscount DUNCAN concurred with moat of the hon.
gentlemen who had preceded him, in thinking that, until
the question of the property tax was settled, it would be
almost premature to make any observations on the other
parts of the right hon. baronet's scheme. As to the pm-
'lefty tax, he thought Sir Robert Peel was fully justified in
introducing it :slung with the changes which lie made iu our
fiscal system, inasmuch as he removed the taxes from the
food of the people. So far the experiment hod been per-
fectly suece,.sful; and it was mainly owing to that policy
that the condition of this country was now so different from
that of other countries; for it was the only country in
Europe which ball any surplus to dispose of. Ile hoped
that if the property tax was re-imposed it would he done on
the same principle on which it had been originally imposed,
rind that corresponding reductions would he made in all
taxed, which affected the comthrts of the working classes.
Ile had a motion on the hook for Thursday next for the
repeal of the window tax; but, as he understood from his
right hon. friend that the arguments he bad us d on a
firmer occasion had at length convinced the government of
the necessity of repealing that tax, he trusted there was
non no difference of opinion between them. Ile
feared the proposition of a house tax WORM cause con-
siderable disappointment to many ; lie wished the substitu-
tion of that tax could have been avoided.
Sir JOHN TYRELL thought the noble lord who had
just sat down ought to be satisfied with the victory he had
gained over the Chancellor of the Exchequer. As to the
agricultural interests, he thought it would have been much
better hail the government stoutly denied their distress in
the Queen's speech ; for the measures now shadowed forth
were not at all of a de-eription to administer any substan-
tial relief to those classes whom they admitted to lie dis-
tressed. He congratulated the right hon. hart. on having
made one admission, great in principle, though small in
amount—that of having recourse, on certain occasions, to
the consolidated fund.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he was quite sure the Chan-
cellor's statement would disappoint the country as well as
that house. If the house wished to foree taaluctions on the
government, they must begin with our expensive establish-
ments. After connuitteea hail been sitting for three ses-
sions on the army and navy estimates, the government
ought to have been prepared to carry out some very exten-
sive reductions. But it appeared that, whenever the finances
were in a flourishing condition, there was always an extra-
vagant expenditure. But, as further opportunity would
occur for the consideration of all these topics, he did nut
deem it necessary to refer to them more particularly on the
present occasion.
Alderman SIDNEY recommended the house to refuse
any assent to the income tax until the ministry had pre
mixed to adjust the burthen, and relieve the unjust pres-
sure it exerted upon incomes derived from commercial and
professional industry.
Mr. HODGES trusted that the tax upon hops would not
be overlooked when future opportunities offered.
Mr. SLANEY hoped that the ministry would persevere
in the course they had adopted this year, and continue to
pass measures by which the moral, sanitary, and social con-
dition of the working man might be improved.
Mr. FREWEN enforced the necessity of relieving the
hop-growers, who were much distreve d.
Mr. COWAN complained of the burden of the income
tax, and of the taxes on knowledge.
Sir B. lIALL declared that he would take the sense of
the house upon the proposed house tax and inquired whe-
ther the impost was to be extended to Ireland.
Mr. ALCOCK wished to see barley relieved from the tax
now imposed upon it. lie calculated that the crop of that
article covered more than a ninth part of the cultivated
ground in England, and paid, un the average, nearly 51.
taxes per acre.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE had listened with pain to a most
lame and unsatisfactory financial statement. The promised
remission would not save a shilling to the tenant-farmers,
many of whom would have, iu addition, to pay a new
house tax.
Lord DUDLEY STUART haling reiterated the question
touching the extension of the house tax to Inland,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that
he did not purpose creating u new impost in that part of the I
United Kingdom.
Mr. NEWDEOATE would like to know from the right
hon. gentleman at what amount he estimated the customs
duty on corn. In 1819 the right hon. gentleman estimated
the duty on corn at Is. the quarter at 250,0001., but it
realised 617,8151. (Loud cheers.) Last year, again, he
estimated the duty at 250,000/. and he received 472,1701.,
being 70 per cent. or 200,000!. more than he euleuluted.
Now, he was anxious to know the estimate of the right hon.
gentleman for the present year, because the anticipated
revenue from that source would enable them to form
some idea as to the probable importation of corn,
and to ascertain the matured opinions of the government
nn that important point. (" Ilear, hear," and laughter.)
The right honourable gentleman (the Chancellor of
the ExChequer) had proposed to continue the income
tax, that under corer of that he might continue
free trade. The income tax was to be continued with-
out the slightest hope being held out of a remission of excise
duties, although the hop duty had been repeatedly brought
before the notice of hon. members both in private and in
the house, and although he (the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer) had heard from hon. members on his own side of the
house that a large majority of the farmers demanded as an
act of justice that the restrictions on the production of
I barley should be dune away with, in order that they might
profitably cultivate their land. (Hear, hear.) lie com-
plained that the Chancellor of the Exchequer was continuing 1
the injurious sptem of remitting duties to favour of the fo- !
reigner as against the colonial producer. In regard to agri-
cultural distress the right hon. gentleman (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) appeared determined to ignore the very
eapresaions which government had recommended her
Majesty to use, and the intimation of opinion which the
house had given the other night on the motion of
the hon. member for Buckinghtunahire (Mr. Disraeli.)
Mr. FRENCH maintained that a great portion of the
income of Ireland already paid income tax. Out of the
nine millions which composed the remnue of Ireland,
seven millions he believed were assessed fur income tax in
the shape of funds, and the property of absenteea. (Hear,
hear.) In comparison of its means, "ft:land was not only