The Express.
London, England, 1848-06-17 00:00:00

THE E'. PRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 17, 184 F.

rests of the empire require, and of what is due to humanity
and jostle* it would be unfair to the West Indian propel-
Mon, when they have rood ease for equality and jostles,
to uy that we mild not listen to them on account of interests
which ezist.d in this country. There is one question con-
nected wiih the reduction of the duties which will make it
necessary for us to take back a permission granted a short
time ago. According to the scale proposed by my right hon.
friend with regard to the introduction of sugar in breweries,
no advantage was given, unless the price of corn was very
high, in the we of malt or sugar in breweries.
But with a reduced duty of 10.. en obvious ad•
vantage would be given to the use of sugar, and we
could hardly obviate that advantage by placing the two
parties on on equality without a vexatious inquisition with
the bushier' of brewers, and a supervision of 40,000 brewing
satahlishreents. I think, thi relive, that it will be uecee.ary
to withdraw the permission for the use of sugar in brews ries,
which uses given by the act ef last year. With regard to
distilleries, we tio not think there Is any advantage to be
gained by the permission to use auger, and there-
tore we do not moan to withdraw this permis•
sion with respect to tie en. Of course, the drawback
will iliruinisti in exact proportion to the changes sffeetod.
I have now towed the outline of our propesal. But I trust
the house will bear in mind that in any propneal they have
to consider—whether that prop• slid by the government or by
any other piety—the principle of the two acts. to which I
have referred ought to he kept steadily in view. (11 or )
No desire to assist the West Indian proprietors to havo a
lave production in the colonies ought to induce us in any
way to impair the greet art for the ah ditinn of Amity.
(Dear, hear.) I do nit speak with regent to the sugar
duties, but eith regard to the introdur ion of labourers into
the West Indies. I have heard of a I lan by which net/tines
wore t, be purchased, and it is pelt that this would be a
meritorious act on the part of tho British people. I can only
say that I woad sr° gly opp sr any stieh measure. Bear )
But re at to the important • of preserving the principle of the
act of abolition la the necessity of keeping steadily in view
the great obji at of the act of 1816, nau,eiy, that of allowing
the comiumer in this c entry to have his sugar as i kelpie as
it can he °limited consi tartly with the inters*. of the ‘Veer
Indians I trust I have not lost sight of that prietiple
in what I have proposed. I would lament if the house in
this year of great distress should, for the sake of any iwerest,
do anything that would increase the price of a gnat article
of consumation to the labouring men of this country.
(Hear, how.) I have now stated what the propesal of the
government will be, and I think it will he better sf gentle.
men will allow me to circulate in the course of to-morrow
the mile I propose. I shall then propose, thet on Monday
the house rewire itself into a committee of the whole house
on tic act of 18111. Ihe noble lord conduit: al by moving
that the act of the 9th and 10th Victoria, C. 61, be rca 1.

The question having been put,
Bir It INGLIS said that he could not hive tedieved it
possible, it the experiments had noe been made, that art de-
ment could he made on such a subject without one paying re-
terenes to that which he believed to be the do p seated feel-
ing of the people of this country. (Hoar, hear.) The ques-
tion was not whether the people of this country had cheap
'sager or not, tut whether it should he stlined with the
blood of thousand.. (Hear, hear ) it was true the fine
mini-ter of the crown rapt, seal his desire to preeierve iiitact
the act of 1831 ; hut did be pt.:serve equally intact the ac: of
1807 ? (Hear, hear.) It was not enough that England
chi utt be erred( free from carrying on the Slave trail., in
her own ships. Was it not equally criminal ant sinful on
her pat if wilfuly, soil with eyes even, they did chat
which must eneoureee the slave trade in other countries ?
tile-if, hear.) Ile wished for cheap sugar and
cheep an) thing ; hut three were better this ge in
hi even and earth than mete eh' apneas. Look.
big to the present int astir, ape. t from mord musts, he
thought it ri I•culous es a measure of Mot to the West
Indian hods. ( Hear. hear.)
Sir J. PAKINOTON 'hoot'', when the proper time ar
ived, be !rowed to move en amendment, the &tit c's
which would rye to uple I I the report of the conruittee, and
to give relief to our Ina ring colonies.
Mr. BERNAL die not with to go into a Ms:session upon
this subject, hut as a member independent of all parties open
this question, he wished now t repeat that ni•thing wind
ever prevent his recording, over and over again, his opinion
that Lis tercet India t lion subj.. cts wi re fully (nett d ti
import into this country the piielue; of their growth fr.,• of
all duty whets'es, r. I • mil. further wished to recomini net
that the pseiiet should he efet lined until the whole debate
upon this h ,d been tries's.
Mr. BARELY could not say i.e hat heard the nulls
lord's anweencemeat with disappointment, because be
had never lee's sanguine that the present government wee
likely to do much ter the benefit of the West !OM co-
lonies lie h lieved that this measure would e 'lieu:mete
their ruin. Whin the authors of the bill of 1810 came down
witni • ten years with a in. were of amt ndment there could
be eery li Ne eoubt that that bill was a di eihel relate:.
Mr !MIGHT rose to protest a:rarest the &reline that all
the diets.. as i.f. this empire was c..ntred in the West lain
coloni. s (Loud ironical cheers trom tl:e Imposition.) lie
was glad gentlemen opposite acknowledged et last the feet
that all the'', eymonthlis were not to be directed to one class.
Ile pr etes•ed egsies• the \V. et !tilt a eolonis's rolh;lie to this
country to he relieved fr on their ellatrees et the earns. of
the mother country. If they t nk Inland, nr the counties
of Y.,rk and Lancaster, he believed they would fled bur
gnats! claims tirreliet than any that could he presented from
the West I cLes. In the manufacturing districts gre•A die-
tress had meme.ed w ithia the List two ) ears. (Hear ) Ile
helievril he nil tht •ey that within that period oi.to be the
capital of throe ilioriete had been hat. (Renewed ironical
cheers) lie underet• osl those cheer. ; hut let him eh, sup-
pose the maeufarturers were to come to that house, arid,
pleading their losses' were to demand that a legislative
enactment should be passed to raise the price of all mane-
lectured articles is this c nintrT end the West Judie., did
they suppose that the West Indians and all other el mass s.f
people would not complain? (Hear, hear.) But perhaps
they would illy that the distress in the West India was
c °reed by leeislative interference. Ile did not believe it.
When a id their distress coma- nee ? Some people ?aid two
years ago —some people slid as far hack as the Enteccipatieli
Art. At the period of the Etna. eipatien Art they tat voted
to them a sum of twenty midlion . The interest on that was
about WO,OOOl. a year. Why, he believed all the exports
from the Wait Indies prior to tt'o r•oesing of that art only
amounted in value to about five =Nene per annum, and it
their profit en that trailine, was taken at 15 per cent., teey
would find that they ought now to be receiving from the
eirstion money aloe neatly 7(1,0001 a year meet than the y
ere -leen by their In sinus trailing. lilt belief was, that pi 0-
teetion had ruiiied the Wet' hill a, by limiting the morn
lion of the co.ohists al meet entirely to ,ug a cultivation. If
that. proteciisin were take n awav,there we re a humlred articles
which ni:eht become a rulijeiit at truffle between this tenantry
and her eeloai. s. The 500.0001 the a °hie lord talked eh iut
would lot he, in his opinion, worth five?' nee to the West
ladies. The ei from Aviv% w.iuld most likely pro-
duce elements of discord into the West I- dies, which at pre.
sent were not f vesei n. Ile thought th money was so much
thrown away, nseept in the career nee the expenditure
would secant. The propreal made by the government was
not, in bis opinion, a very material one, hut he thought it
would have been far wi er bed the government taken their
steed os the ac's of 1845 (neer, hear.)
Mr. H. BAILLIR thought the hon. member for Man-
chester was the only member of 'ha house who would have
had the audacity to wsunie that he, in his own person, repr ;-
rented the entirepipulatton of the country. The hon. ineinher
represented only a class interest—the interest of the Mao-
Olt St. r manufacturers—and he would on'y ask him how he
could reconcile it to his conscience as a free tr vier, that we
should Like cotton for home minuticturers free of duty,
whilst we taxed our own eoloni.te 14s. per e et. for the it
sugar? (lhm, hear.) But he would not waste words on
the member for Mai cheater. He wished to cape. he very
one fly his t Itrmie tut at the cot Semite
of the whit. lord. It was a measure which would give
no a &clue' relief of ny sort.
Mr. COBDEN would say bet a mingle word. His hon.
friend the member fer Manchester and others were
discountenanced by the other etas. of the house,
as being connected with the cotton trade, a de-
lcumst ince whic'i seemed to be coned. rid as, some-
how ter other, depriving their ',pinions of any weieht
on this subject. Now he (Mr. Cobden) was not connee
with the cotton trade, but with the woollen trade—a trade
indigenous in the country, and therefore, he implored, not
repudiated by the pr dectioniste over thn way. As a rem.,
sentative for Yorkshire, he hied no hesitation in saying tent
the c nine of hon. gentlemen opp .site on this got ation w
opposed to the opii.iii3 of the Y•aik-liire peep o. lie would
remind them that it was the people of Yorkshire who h id
mappotted Mr. Wiberforce, the great anti Havery chant eine,
in all the eppoeitton through which he emertel the princi-
ples which had brought about the depreciation in the price
colour etteers. The I,tber day a dep Autism from Bredlerd
waited upon the government to Atkin at !test nous hope of
remeliel measures for the existing distress ; hut they went
away as they came, the Chancellor of the Exch. tiner telling
theot he could do nothing for them. One of the
deputation meationril that his factures gave em-
ployment to a thousand person., reed that it was
solely to give those p roots bread ih..t he had le m his facto
ryes ,pn a' all, for italic he would gl Pave ci eel teem
twelvemonths ago until better times arrived. It would not
be particulwly satisfactory to this gentleman and liia hew,-
manufacturers to lied that while all relief was withheld from
them relief was to be given to the West India planters.
Mr. HUME hod heard the statement of the noble lord
with the deepeg regret. Ch‘vernor nt would have done far
better to have lot the mater altogether alone. It was r 'ally
deplorable to hear the noble lord, utter such repeated ft u-
rishes about his determination to adhere to the act of 1848,
thus unblushingly propose the Niel ition of the whole prin-
ciple and 'pint sal toss measure. (Hear, hear.) It appeared
to him that his hon. friend the member fir the West Riding
of Yerkshire, as well as his other tree.trade coil news,
were taking a ono aided view of the question. (Rear,
heir.) His hen. friend engirded a parallel betty en the
case of the manufacturers sal Yorkshire aid the sugar growers
of the West Indies, whereas in point of fact there was no
such alining/ at all. (Hear, heat.) In the first place the
West bilks were precisely damaged by the want of that
cheap and efficient Ishour which the menufecturere cat York-
attire were absolutely overwhelmed with. (Hear, hear.)
Ile had hoped to see the government cnileaemiting to remedy
the evils which its former legislation had inflicted upon the
West Indies by very ditteivit m am from thoes proposed,
which amounted to a mere frittering away of the public
money without env sort of edvantnee to the Wee. Indies.
(Hear, bent.) What the Wi st Indies wanted was a rest ra-
tion of confidence, and the means of producing their sugars
as cheaply as the slave-hohlinsr settee. He had told govern-
ment how it would be whce they were propusiug the !suety
and most inconsiderate mcesure which had so 1 rgely canoe-
bnted to the distresses of the West India interest, and
Ise had moved to p. etpone the donation of twenty millions
until a committee lied inquired how fur it would be safe and
judicious to proceed with the eraposed plan ; but he bad
been indnee.l net to preys his amendment ts a division, a
eiteumstanee which h.t now reirettint. Ouesrnment talked

of oar heavy taxation, and heavy, more than enoweh, God
knew it was ; why did they not remove that taxation,
the diaeontinuaneeewhlaa was within their power t?
Why
call upon the country every year to pay a million of money
for the perfectly absurd and wholly inefficient equadron off
the cool% of Atria% ? (Hear, heir.) The fact was that this
question must ha taken up on Monday, on a far wider and
more coenprebensive hasia than that sugeestail by the noble
lord. (Hear, bear.) The real question tor earnerit consult r-
ation would be whether we were to keep the West India
colonies or to lose them. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. 11. DRUMMOND quite agreed with the hon. mem-
ber her Montrose that the question was, whether the Hotter
thought it worth while to retain the Wet Indies by simply
doing them justice.
Mr. P. MILKS said, that whereas the West India
planter was being ruined with a duty of 6.., the govern-
molt proposed to rectors his prosperity by reducing the pro-
tection to lie. Gil. (Hear, hear ) The hon. mtimh -r complaiiie ;
of the conduct of the Colonial-office, in withholding the
presentation of the papers on this subject, so essential to its
due consideration, until the day preceding that on which
the ditenesion commenced. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HENLEY exie wed his conviction that if the country
were polled, there would he an enormous nojerity who
would prefer the cause of humanity, at justice, and of sound
policy, to the saving a birthing a pound upon their rimer.
Mr. HUDSON denied that the hon. monher -or the West
Hiding ot Yorkshire represented the opinions even of Ws
own constituents up-in this sulject.
Mr. E DENISON "mil that the proposition of the noble
lard would nut bo accepted by the West Indians as in any
degree meeting their requirements.
Mr. BERRIES thought the noble lord had placed him-
self in a singularly unenviable position by his slat. mint.
There was not • ',Mete member, as yet, who had given it
his sanction, and this wen no rem trkable circumstance, eon.
sielering what the measure oar, or either, woo not. A ter
all the lahours of the committee up stairs, after its produc-
tion of eight thick volume., containing more inferrne•Mi
than had evil. beb,ro loon furnisk-4 to the house up on any
one But+ et, after the atilt, rep in it had p -eserited, the noble
lord had, as it nothing had hoppencd, pro.o a miaeure
which met not oar of the ri quirements which gave occasion to
the clminater. (Hear, hear.) In fact, it was not a mea
sure at all—it was a mere evasion ot the subject. (Het",
bear.) Again, alter our t.rty years' struggle ottaiotrt sac. ry;
after our enortneus outlay ot money and of life, and of inn°.
ence with the maritime nations of the world, in vindication
of the principle wo had proclaimed in hoeti.ity to the oto t.
▪ elates trade; after we had been told, and toll omit
truly, that all wo had dune had merely been to mike
slate trade at once more horrible and more prosperooe, the
noble lord, in his speech upon this question, so intimoti Is
connected with slay, ry aid the slave trade, had net unfit. d
•iingle word about either slavery or the alive trade. ( Heer,
hear.) As to the prove ed measure, no one in the co
would accept it as a reliel it would not even
he taken as an instalment ot relief. As he did
not believe the contemplated reduction in the duty wool-I
have any effect upon the c ineuteption in so fir as
to increase the revenue from that cause, he contesseil
ho was unable to foresee hew th • right hon. baronet would
he able to wind up the incomplete budget which lie had pre-
sented to patliament. There wan a deficiency in the r& erints
amounting to three and a half millions. Whera were th •
resources of the riJ,t hon bonnet fur le iitging over, or
rein r ti r shuttling through, Lis financial dirfieultice ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUEIt said that he
had attentively listened to the speech of the right hon. ct n-
tivm in app ,site, and had certainly a xpected hien to emit by
Making a room, er-nrodmit ion to the house in lien of that or
his noble feared Proposals had been made on the part of
some of the %Viet Ind. tor to 'travel° fire labourers from tie
re-captured Afi icons lodged in the harrac ion% by trees!) irt-
ing them to the British coloitice. But this the gorcentnet.t
would not cnn ent to, ns it would give direct encouralemenr
to the trallie in slaves carried en in the int- rior of Attica
In feet, he knew of no plan by which free la-
bourers coull be supplied to the West Indi-a save Out
now in practice, and it any mote eliectu d Mrtlmod mould be
sudgeided, he would avower fur it that the colnni .1 office nil
the government at large would give each plan every attention,
provided the principle adopted was that of rending free men,
and by their own free will, to labour in the West link s.
The ge at difficulty in this reepect, hail berm Ilium the w. n;
of fusels to transport free I ,torturers to their estates on the
part of the nt inters. The it'darure hid impost d fio re-
strietions on the import of tree labourers. Bat the right
hon. gretleittan wished to exclude all slim.-grown sugars
(ruin the home markets.
Mr. HERMES remetked that be said nothing of the
kin

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would b •
so-ry to mincer bent the relit hon. centleman, bat his hon.
trifled at his right band also so understood what had 6•en
Laid by him. It apps-red tap n, teat he WAY hot prepared to
eat lude sliVr•grown sugars 00111 It 011Cconsump ion.
Mr. HERMES explained that what he hut stated w
that the legulatore having decoureged, by heavy diff Nevi $1
duties, the consumption of slave grown sugars in the house
market, had removed suddenly thew reetrictioes by the act
of ISIS; so I that now the n able lord proposed to re-move
' the remaining restriction altoerther on its consumption, ha
gradually briuging the elutes en stew-grew',- and free labour
cue see toe level. That was wit it he oh jeered to.
The CHANCELLOR of that EXCHEQUER thanked
the right lion. gentleman. Then what he int_nt to argue
was. that the high rate of duties en slave-grown su ems
ought to h• m iintaire d, hut n t outirely to exclude those
engem. The government, however, felt it nee ',teary to abide
by the polity already m Ace I cut by previous mejoeties
of that Ileums, which had affirm.' the principle of aimitting
all s ogles into lair and free corneeteion. Tne paint, thee,
which the right hon. gentleman contended for was,
the maintenance of prote.tiou for the British planters during
an aecqu ete t. em, to enable theta to compete by means of
free labour with slays iur imeart. At.d the argument
advanced by the protectionists wet that the only chance of
putting down slavery was to give free hiliour every possible
advent ge ever slave labour. The reeommendation of the
committee nominated by the indite lord the member for
Lynn was rot to exclude slave-grown sugar, but to grant pro-
tection for six years, in order t+ gist the i hinters time to
make their arrangements. The hon. member for Leomiuster
(Mr. Darkly) defined that protection to be a Ills. duty on
Brieeh plantatian sugar- for three years. Therefore, metes
the iegieleture Wes prepared to go back, the sole questions to
he consirl rid were, not the exclusion of slave-grown sugar,
but for what time and to what amount was pentectirm to he
eatended to free-lab sur stream ; and on Monday he Ahmed be
prepared to prove that the government pronosel was pre,
fertble to and better than that suggest.. ey the eppoeite
patty.
Mr C. P. VILLIERS remark, $1 that any oce who had
heard the epeech of the hon. member for Montrose on the
presentness on, e ould havesupposed he bed never done other-
wise than blame the art which emancipated the slaves, and
th it he bed also been oppneel to tree trade. He only cited
this in order to show how very much oi blimp' wavered on all
sides of the house on the question ).elore them. He had no
dotett whatever that the M.n. member would be able eatis-
facterily to replaiii his views on Monday, ant to mike thi m
en .siatent with his gereral opinions. (" ar," fry m Mr.
Hume ) The great point to COIIIIOICI seemed to him to be
the want of the British West India planters of free labourers.
It was generally admitted that it the neeroes now di the
I.lends s. Auld work, there would he Veto), of sugar pro.
• laced, Therefore, it seeme d to hint that the great thing to
he done was to produee a morel effect upon the negroes now
in the W. st Indies, the tendency of which would be to show
them the y were not to have it all their own way, but that the
government would Intl amistanee in bringing in fresh
lehour from other quarters if the negroe who bed been
emancipated toile not work at proper rates of wages.
E ird 0. BENTINCE slid that the West Indian
mei', which scent out to-morrow, would carry with it
tidings of ,j,•.1,,,r and ile.mey to the West Indians, as well
as the deepest re ;fret in eh it meals at the progress wheels
the slave trod had made during h e last two years. He
seas quite sure the noble lord's propwel would he of no
avail in averting the ruin that prevailed in the West Indies.
To say that when those colonies were in their present ruined
stare, and struck down by the measure of 1816, a protection
such as that of the government would he any relief to them,
WAS it mockery. The reason why he rose on the preset
occasion WAS to OW. the British planter, sloe heart amidst
their do Altair. (A lough.) And if the mail was to carry out
the government Invent, to let the c,lonio'e listen to the
col mess with which the noble lord's prepositions had been
received. To let them see how the hon. member for the
It iversity of 0.1 ripetch had been received, an-I to
leach them that the noble lord's dictum was not received as
an edict by t e house. (A laugh ) He sutured that the
verdict on Monday would he that the British colonists
should net be allowed to perish. The right hon. baronet
(the Chaneellm of the Exeheouer) had Intim aid that antler
tee act of 1844 slave grown sugars were admitted from the
United Sta•es and Venezuela That was true, hut so small was
the quantity as not. to exceed 31 tons in all the quantity
imported under that set in one year. The hon. member for
Bridal had alluded to the despatch of Sir Chris Grey, end
had justly eemplained of the leneth of time that hod elapsed
Were that despatch win laid on the table of the house. Ile
(Lori( G. Bentinek) would en further that the hots. member.
Ile would affirm ti at fir C. Grey's despatch was received 011
the 271 h of March, and that not on'y was it held back, but
when the hon. member for Kinsale (Mr. B. Hawes) was
examined before the committee on West India distres., he
positively declared that he knew nothing of the state of the
case which was con•aineo in a despatch the: had been nine
days ite his porscroion. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) I.
was to be sore nothing mire than a renewal by
the Under-Colonial Secretary of the acme trick th it had
been played off by his chief in another place, when •
despatch was withheld for four bourn after the debate had
concluded, ( [Lear. ) The hon. member cheered, but he
would not do so when the evidence given by him before the
West Lelia committee was quoted to the house. The noble
lord then referred to the West India committee blue book,
end read a part of Sir C. Grey's delimited, wherein the Go-
vernor of JAMAICA states that unless the Gazelle price of
Muscovades could be permanently maintained at 305., the
recut would he that the cultivetion of sugar must be aban-
doned in Jamaica; and "for that reason," continued Sir
C Grey, '• I recommend that the r uties on Muscovado§
he levied at td. per lb. on British free-labour sugars, and at
id. per lb. en foreign sugar', liable to alterations when the
foreign cote:dos !emitted their slaves." That was, in sub-
stance, thy remedy which he had proposed for the adoption
of the house. Bet what was the evidence of the hon. mem-
ber the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies Wore
the committee, on the sth of April, he having had the
dispatch which he had just quoted since the 27th of
March t The hon. member, on being questioned by Mr.
Ouulburn as to the accounts from Jamaica, referred the
committee to the general accounts from the Weit Indies
known by the name of the Blue Book, and, moreover, shoed
that the accounts were of a general character ; and when
Mr. Goulourn, dissati-fied with the vague and indefinim
rep'y of the hon. member, asked him whether the Governor
of J.imsica wrote no d,p itches beyond what were to b.f.-F.ll
, in the blue heol. the hen. meatuer d'sttnetly seed- ." Yea he

does, but I am cot aware of any despatch of importinee
which but been received from him and withheld from the
committee "
Mr. HAW ES— It was not withheld at that time.
Lewd G. BENTINCK —Why, the despateli which I have
quoted was received at the Colonialmtlice on the 27th of
Marcb ,• the hon. member's evidence was given on the sth
of April, and the document itself was not produced or printed
until June. (Hear.)
Mr. B HAWES—It was produced when the noble lord
weed for it.
Lord G. BENTINCK.—The hon. member is fencing
with me. (A lammlL) I moved, on the Bth of May, fir the
prodution of all papers received since the last were printed.
But the hon. Unite r Secretary expressly mated before the
committee at the time this very despatch was in his pusses•
that he had received no despatches of importance at
all from Jamaica. ( Hear.) He thought, therefore, that he
1114 a right to make a grave charge spinet the emalenial offi-
cer fee heelers/ hack so imp ortanta despatch. (Hear, hear.)
Ile would not at that time go further into the dis-
cussion. seeing that no result was contemplated,
hut would merely advise the noble lord at the
heed of the government t r he meted in dealing with great
nannies. The noble lord should not content himself with
eddeng in a miserable matter of Is. or Is. 01. per cwt. on
mutt .r, when the inters the nese the very exigence, of great
c 'lefties were at stake. (Meer, hear.) Those colonies had
hen loyal in the worst of times, but their patience had its
limits; and he would tub: leave t t say to the noble lord, in
the language of Burke, that magnanimity in politics was
not seldom the :rurst wisdom," an.l that " a great empire
sell lit le minds go ill together." (Cheers )
Mr. HAWES &nisei that any undue delay had taken
teem. in the delivery of the despatch in question, but moat'
delm r leugthened explanaton until he had heel an opportemity
111 making inquiries. This much, however, he would say, that
he had understood the question (Attie right hon. metals 'r .or
Cembridge Calve raity as Wearing to whet was technically
eared the C ilonial Blue B u k, whice blue honk had not been
received up to the present hour, and therefore cued not
have been given to the cammetes. As to the despatch of
Si, C. Orey, as seen um the noble lora had moved for it it
was put into the cepyise's h mils, and an fir as he (Mr.
Hears) knew no unnecesetry delay ha f Liken place in lay-
ing it before the- committee.
Mr. DISRAELI wee of epinien that the hon. under
secretary had cxhibit.d nn unnecessary degree of indigna-
tion. Did he must to say that the despatch of Sir C. Uri),
hod hem n presented in good time to the committee?
• Mr. HAWES lasel not uudentood that the despatch In
pi, stem was called fir in Uie first instance. Subsequently
the noble lord moved for a great many despatches, and they
were immediately placed in the printers' hands.
Mr. DISRAELI did not think that the hon. under,
wee tary hail bettered his position by his i terlocutory oh-
serration. Hem, hear.) The hon. gehtleman had, as a
witness before the committee, Been aikeit for information
winch he, as a member of the government, must have pos•
w. .se.l He evaded the question and choe to think that it
Ti fere d to a mere routine report. (Hear.) lie was asked
whether he was in in ssemion of a y informatiou of impart,
ance, and he declined to menteii the despatch which had
lea en alluded ti by the noble lord the member fur King's
Ls n.
Mr. IIAWES.—I stated that tome despatches had been '
rewired
Mr. D'ISItAELL—Ti s: but the bon under secretary
thought the despatch to Sir C. Grey of se little consequt ace
as not to require . speci 1 mention. (11. ar, hear.) The
great question wax whether the despatch in coedit.n would
or would not hue influenced tee decision of the committee.
i llesr, hear.) If he recoil. ett d right, the right hon. mem-
ber fur Cambridge University had asked for the dcseatch.
Mr. HAWES.—The riget host. genile•nen was present
and would answer fur himself. Ile had uneerstood the tight
han. gentlemen to ark for what was technically called the
blue bee k, and h•id, therefore, enswesl, and truly, that it
wes nut in his posse sioa.
Mr. DUULItti RN said that the hon. under mutton y
must have intsunderetod the question he had put te him.
(" He ow," and taught, r.) lie hail eked whether govern.
me. t had received any information front the Gavernor of
Jamaica which would throw light on the distressed sate of
that colony. (Loud cries of " Hear, bra:.") Ho owned
he had been surprised when subsequently he sow the de•
witch of Sir C. Grey. (Hear, hear )
Mr. DISRAELI was quite anti-fied with the answer
which the right hot. member for tho Uteversite of Cam.
bridge had male to the appeal of the honourable under
secretary. (Hear, hear.) But nobody had supposed
that a statesman of that right honourable gentle-
man's talent asrl experience would be so green as to ale fur
• blue book. (A laugh.) The question w ,s, as he had be-
fore meted. whe cur an important document had not been
withheld, mid whether, if proeuceil, it would not have heu
an important influence on the decision of the committee.
their, hear.) All that had b. en said within the previous
Sew isthmus went ti cinflem the statement which hail been
made by his noble trieeie but lie (Mr. D.sraeli) would leave
th • rotation fur the Nereid Letwt ea the hon. under secre-
tary ant the right hon. mem') r for the University of Cam-
bridge. It was net Isis inetntien to prolong the disco--
eion en the general question, hut ro merueering that
the picket was to mil on the (Mowing a ay, Le thought
that all expression of riehnuu should net Ise deferred
until Monday lie protested regales' the ceurse of the go-
vernment. They might have adopted the stigeestion of the
enemitiie, or they might have adhered to the policy cf
1816 ; but they hod done neither. They had paltered in •
double se ee, end while unfaithful to peiticel economy, had
been eqeally Jibe to protection. (Premed ,ni-t chem.) As
the packet was about to sail, it was but right that the
colonists should know that all in that house were not equaaly
unfaithful to their interests—that some leek, d upon the pro-
peke= of the government as devoid of every stateamaulike
quality, and es nulthely to lewd to any result. (Hear.)
Vet at was the question us between the English people and
the eelunies ? lLe English people, as represented by p r-
liatnent and government, had entered him a contract with
the auger growing eceorres in 1834. They aboli-hed slave
labour, and in return promised them an abundact supply of
free labour and a market. To that contract there were
four condtions, and three of them bad he n violated by the
lintel government. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord had said
Chit the great object of the bill of 1816 was to secure
cheap sugar is the people of England. If that were
the principle, why not relieve the people in other
matters in taxation, for installer ? Why not sponge
if the netimel debt, and thus relieve the people from a
great portion of their taxation ? By fellowiter up a high
tone of morality, a greater fiscal result might be ac-
romp' shed than the colonial catastrophe wheel was now
bt ing aoromplithed. No one had told the house why the
emtract with our colonies had net been :ultilled. The hGu.
member for Manchester had sp.oken of relief to his suffei ieg
conri ueuts through the medium of cheap wear. No doubt
they were suffering, but so we re the colorists, and in both
eases from the legislation of the bon. member and his sceool.
(iie or, hear.) '1 hero was one consideration which had been
e. tubed upon by the noble lord the membe r for
Kteg'e Lynn, and which he (Mr. Dismal) trusted would
ever be omitted from the discus:4,n of this queeti .a. The
Wen India colonies must Let be permitted to perish altoge-
ther. (Hear, hear.) They had existed for some centuries,
had achieved a considerable degree of civiliemion, and had
br .ught the land into a high state of cultivation. Therfore,
notwithstanding our political economy and perfidy, it was
not possible to suppose that they would or cuu:d come to
utter desolation. Olean hear.) But how were they to
prosper? They must he supported by some metropolitan
authority. Dependencies they were, and must ever ri main
an; and depend upon it, that if forsaken by us, a reilliau
of men would not perish without a struggle, but would seek
encouragement and sepp et from traneadalitic powers.
(liar, hear.) But were they even tecuring cheap sugar by
the present proposal? He remembered having said in 1816
that the history of men was the history of reaction, and that
the noble lord reple.l in et sp ech full of lash :14 corpus and
t -e rights of man; but now, two years after, the noble lota
himself came (lowa with a retro-active p they. (Rear, hear.)
The tact was, that all this time we had been establishing
differentiel duties in favour of Cuba and the Brands—in
fact, establishing a monopoly for the slave-growing countries.
(Hear) The right hon. member fur Cambridge University
bee touch, d the morel blot oft: is case. If there had been no
parliament, or mere unfortunate still, no reporters, they
neght hare get cut of the scrape ; but forty years of public
meetings, forty years of pletform orate. y, and forty years of
ministers of state raised toe ffise through their advocacy of
the nholition if shivery, were traditions which would not
eerily be forgotten by the people. Among other things the
distineuide.d pert teem in that aeitativa by the Society
of 1 i iends would not be forsotten ; and therefore when he
saw in the hon. member for Ma Chester the eloquent
advecate of slave-grown sugar, when he heard him
tell time people that all tiny were to leek to was t .e
(heap:use of the article, he thought he was justified In
A iVll4l{ the: the present waa an era of remarkable reaction.
(Ili ar, hear.) The government which had hrougl.t in the
bd. of 1846 were now obliged to come forwent with a reme-
dial eolicy. (Hoer, hear.) What would the people of Beg-
lend think whin they found that the hee.trade policy had so
1.0011 broken down ? (Hear, hear.) Ile had not the slightest
doubt but that. when they late :rse-:rude elects of core, and
t'.at agricultural distress which the hon. me.nber for Man-
chester had described with so much unction, and on the anti-
cipation of which he had gloated with so much feeling—when
they had cheap provieionsconsentaneous with commercial de-
pression andcolonial ruinous(' atotal want of business through-
out the country,they would reg. et the policy into watch they
had been talked, and the false system ot which they had for
some time been supporters. (Hear, hear.) He should give
his opinion on the government proposal at the proper time ;
but so far as his voice went he wished to let the colonists
know that he had entered a protest as indigo ant as that of
the Unit. r Secretary's against a measure brought forward
under circumstances he believed unprecedented in this coun-
try, with reference to colonial legislation, miserably feeble in
conception, and leading, as ho belittle d, to utter disappoint-
ment and unparalleled failure. (Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that in making his proposition,
and deterring the discussion till Monday, he had men ly
adopted what had for some time b. en the usual course. But
hon. members had not on the uresent occasion taken that
course; for bath the hon. member for Oxford and the hon.
member who had just sat down had entered at some length
into the principle at the government proposition. He (Lord J.
Russell, must first take the hon. member for Bucks,
beceuse that hon. member had shown pretty clearly
what was to be the nature of the deba'e on Monday.
The hon. member said that the re-active policy he
had prophered in 1846 was coming about, tied that all free
trade principles were to be overthrown by the government
proposal. NOW the house might see from this in what spirit
the hon. member would support the government peeped-
tion. Ile (Lord J. Russell) had supposed that the me.inesg
of the right hon. member for Stamford, in proposing a 10s.
duty for six years, was that it should expire at the end of
that time, or he gradually diminished. If that were the
proposal he (Lord J. Russell) should o ject ht it,
on the ground of the burden it ieei s cu
the peope of Beale ; but it would not Inca

very different iron the principle of 1546, which
pointed to the gradual equalisation of dotirs. N w,
ever, it was explained that the object was to treetopa prat!.
tion altogether. (Hear, hear.) lie was not merry to leap
this, because it showed the house the real nature of the sm,
suns they would have to discuss, namely, the proposition of
the government modifying the act of 1816, wed the propowt
for a difTeren: tat duty of 10s , the e ffwct of which would be to
lay a oonsiderable tax on the people of this country. The
hon. me miser for Alf rd University had represent his great
indignation that he (Lend J. Russell) had not touched upon
the question of slavery. Why, he had thought that
the whole of his speech went to allow shut tba
effect of the government measures would be to
enable the eolonies to compete with slave labour, and by
giving them free labour to discourage slavery. (Hear, bear)
lie routers. d —and, after all he had heard, he felt humbled is
confeeeieig—th et he had thought there were two paw"
whose interests were to be kept in view in legislating 0. thq
subject. One was the great man of the colonial popeitatio;
amounting to reine.tenths of the whole, and the other ww
the 99•100ths of the people cf this e anntry, who wort
deeply interested in the price of an &nide foe which
they paid 12,000,0001. aterleng per annum—(hear,
hear, hear) —of which they e.sed 300,006 tons, w
6,000,000 ewts. (Hear, hear.) With regard to there two
p erti s he thought thee the govere.m.ent i.oliey had not heel
wholly unsuccessful. The labourieei, reputation of the New
Indies had been raised to prosperity, and the /tenets of this
country bad obtuined a cheap supply of a great arti.le of
consumption. Vieth respect to the e-utinevance.of protection
the hon. member for Leominster had himself stew:
ti at if coietinued bey cud two years its ceeneiquences
would be disastrous to the coloteien. The noble
lord here read at length Mr. Hoek:yid 'widen's,
Mr. Harkly thought, therciore, that the effect else 10a. duty
would be sti'l mono dionerous in the end—that it would be
disastrous in Guiana, and more au the other eedonies.

Mr. BARKLY—What I said was, a 10s. duty co/oh/tied
for 10 years.
Lod I. RUSSELL—But the hon. gentlemen mitt, ate,
that lie did not consWer that, it the 10s. duty were 00.
tinucd, the colonists would be in a better positinn than they
were now; erhi in ono place h distinely stated that the
10s. duty should not continue FM more than two 3 ett7s and
that, if it were continued but fur two yr,rs the cern?, thine
for labour would he less intense than if it remained for tin.
There s ere too other answers of the bun. gentleman whim
were reutarkahle—first, that a 10s. protection °ted raise
the price of colonial sugar 4s. per cwt. In this market, the
consequence of which would be the same us a du yof de,
except that, instead of going into the exchequer, it would go
inter the pockets of the West India planters, or in increasing
the wsrs of the 'shouter. The other answer was to the
effect that the great ebject of the propri. tors w to make
sugar without regard to the cost, and that t!,11 was the
great cause of the high rate of wages; gel tout, it a 10,.
protection was given for 10 years, the proprietors would rein
nothing, but wages would be further iecreaeol; n. added
the reason of this was, that the planters were often subject to
encumbrances end were nut altogether their ewe mot n,
and were consequently compelled to enter into expemive,
and, to them, injurious, cultivation. Well, then, the hoe
gentleman's opinion wan, that a prOcetien of lea for tee
years would be beneficial, but that for a lone period it
would be injurion: ; and, teeing that the government proper
sition was to give apr oection, though n t of 103 , for tit
year*, he did not think that proposition dinned to be
met by the hon. member with stt h utaweeutred teems hes
as he had stack d it with. (H. ar ) The question the
house would have to decide was a ith respect t the proposal
of a 10s. pr..tective duty. If such a duty, while inswing%
tax on the p. °plc of this country, as be rreteneed it would,
should lead, as the hon. gentleman stated, to tl, giving. of
very high and extravagant wogea for labour in the colonies
and, instead of placing the proprietor is ahe tier position
than he now wee, eensnme his erefits by the c,retetition fa
labour which must arise, he c.uM not see on what
ground it could be supported. (Hear, Lae) It
appeared to him that such 10s. dote, whir it woeal
be a serious burden to the people of England,
and while it would not be a real bereftt ti the labourer,
would be injurious to that very (less for whree edrant•ge it
was proposed, and who were the • nlo persons rho it was
thungta would profit by it. (11• ar, hear.) The hon. mem-
ber for Montrose had noo declare:l aeoinst the proposition of
minister.; but that hon. gentlem in was nit content with
continuing the preser.t protection, bat woell projtose an in-
crease se the only means of otvitg the celoties. Against
such a scheme he thnugot Mr. loves hail given a most con-
clusive rearm. Mr. loses said he should be soiry to see
protection re.enadted in this country, because the eel-mists
could not in that cam be tortait, that the lee would not be
swain changed in a year or two—there weed be a c,natant
struggle on the one hand to maintain protection, end en the
other to overthrow it—anti there would be no a_eurity for
capita until the question was finally welled. (Hear,
hear.) That opinion of Mr. lures' no ecrundered
perfectly reasonable; and it the beam sheeld decide
up-u ra eine the protection to t.n shil:iaes, in.o. el of the
amount overnm,nt proposed, the effect would, ca on's, be
a renewed stret Ile on the seal jest, and thou eh t Jere might
not be that suece:etul r. action the Lon. member for Buck.
jegham-hire luekcd forward to, yet ell Coe c who were Is
vouraLle to free trade in c aru and the oioe of Loper:
ditties, would struggle again to diminish this duty on guru,
and to free the people of the United Kiogdem teem a tax w
onerous to them. (Ilenr, hear.) He had heard it asked
that eveniag what signified Id. a pound in the price of
"gar ?
Lord G. BENTlNCK—Butoureroccuilon goat tondos
the prie• lay reducing the duty.
Lori RUSSELL had nneentoorl the noble ind to sty
that Id. a pound was not a mater of importance, bat
the noble lord now said he propas-d to r. duce it. He pro-
posed to reduce it, however, in o way which the Chautellor
of the Excaequer would se treely c oasent to, inasmuch as it
would involve a sacrifice of 900,019!. of roe OUT, and if the
ditty were 10s. on colonel and 20s. on tore-fen sugar, in the
absence of the check of foreign import", the price would rise
and consumption diminish, end there woad be a e rrespood-
ing dimiuution of revenue. It woe s.id a.c Vast a large
consumption you have had, end se the Vast I In totems
can provide that tapir, w' y net take it wholly from them?
But boo. gentlemen seemtd to forg. t that the incr teed ton-
pump:inn was owing to the diminutien of price. (Cheers.)
The increase w , 18,000 tone in three years, but if they
re-established protection and made sager char, they would
and ir.cre ased consumption ould cease ale) give placed*
a diminution. It was wend, del how extremely sensitve
the market W.. 11 in this re.p.et, end how imnailiateiy
slight 'Daiwa of price diminished the c nuumption ;
proving that with the great mats of the people not Id. bat
Id ,or even 11. a pound in the price Man article eras a matter
II of importance as regulating their paver of centumption.
(Hear.) He had been led to in•ko thise remarks by the
great length to which the debate had gene. He ehou:d be
read on Menday to defend the g nornmea. pint as one that
would piece the West India pruerseter in a more advoita-
geous position than that in which he at resent stood, while
it would inflict no injury on the labourer. lie was aware
that any plin tot going decidedly in favour of the one party
or the stair—or that ail not primate to confer immediate
std great adymtag. n, was liable to the imputttion of being
a mere paltry meddling with Vie gated ,n ; he, however,
felt continued that on a question like this it would be
nowise ti go to one extreme or the other. The
tots' abolition of the pre. tit aifferential duty, he
was ceuvinecd, would be ses unwisa as to make
any great increase in the p-esent am mat of protec-
tion. They (the government) repotted ter. refore that the
diTer. ntial duty should cease altogether in six years, giving
in the meantime a reasonable pretee ion to the West India
colonies. His otj.ct was that the groat mans of tee people
in the Wes: Lilies and in this cm etry sheuld have justice
d ,ne them, and that free labour might be placed in a peel-
tem to compete successfully with slave labour; and believing
that such would lie :b.• effect of his propatiton, he should
sits ceutitlence ,üb,uit it to the house on Mindy wet.
The motion that cha house on NiJn.lty next restive itself
into committee on the meat duties was then agreed to.
THE NAVIGATION LAWS.

T:.e order of the doy for &lag into committee ea this
subject having been read,
Mr. HERMES, Mr. NEWDEOATI, Lord G. DaIITTICCE,
and Mr. HeNLeY, protested against eommeecing the debate
at so late an hour (half post ten), when many gertlemen had
left the house, not expecting it want I come on.
Mr. LABOIiCRIME, Mr. I.lUttli. Mr. AGLIONHY, Lord
B.
13110SVESOR, and Lsrd J. IttreatLL, Were a4.l._iri that the
diseu.siJii should proceed; and, after smss-, en v. r,:fen, the
house divided on the question that the kteaker do leave
the chair.
Fur the motion
Aealast it
The house then went into corn nittee, and too- Caairman
having reed the Mgt resolution.
Mr. I STUART east Warne upon tho govcroreimt fir
forcing the house into a dieruesion upon so important a su'o•
ject st half pact 10 o'clock. Such a CAM.) was neither decent
nor proper, and he mutt, thee. bore, move that toe Cnairmon
relott mimes "ea
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he mast in return blame hon.
gentleman opposite fur the course they wero our-wing.
(liter, hear.) He begged to remind the house of the oh.
set 'ration lately made by a woe by alderman. who said that,
however op' osed to the mcassreo of the gout-anent, the
last thing he should consider himself justified in doing was
to throw any obstacle in the way of the consideration of
these measures.
Alderman THOMPSON did not repudiate the observe-
til)fl attributed to him ; but a great many hoe gentlemen
oppued to the rcsolu'ions having left the house—(Cries of
" Oh, oh")—under the imprest•ion that they would not be
brought forward that night, must stipport the motion for
reporting pv,gre.e. (Cries of " Olt ")
Lied C. HAMILTON would also support that motion, as
he fee Alected ne care of similar importance being f viva upon
the house at so late an hour.
Mr. itUME urged upon the heuse that the jreicat stage
of the question wu only preliminary.
Mr. lIROTHERTON said .hat tt had been agreed some
time since that these resolutiontt =houid be paved as a matter
of ceurse—" Hear, hear," and cries 0' 4' No, no")—and he
could not denominate the Fes. Ilen.aotherwise than
factious.
Mr. ROBINSON said he should oPer every opposition to
it in his power, even at the risk of its king cal, I factious.
(Ironical cheers )
Mr. HENLEY supported the notion for reporting
progress.
Mr. RICARDO coneilered it most imp :dant Cita the de-
tails of the measure should be before the publLt its soon as
possible. This was most es‘ential for the etteri•sts of trade
slut all partiesidTected by the castigation laws.
Mr. IiUBSON denied that the hue. member who had
list egoken truly tepreseutol the sontiments or the ship-
owners. The minority of this house justly sir :adiug the
iojery which this measure w.u'd .nfliet on iet.pr. ant in-
t• Tots, had a right to take such cusps in oppee:tion as they
thought proper. Government were justly Moo alter
hating resolved on this measure in Nevemoir la% tsr intro-
ducing it at so late a period al the smsioi; if it were :tot