The Express.
London, England, 1848-08-04 00:00:00

'G, AUGUST 4, 1848.

the subject of the oaken where Ng visas bad been more peen
holy conspicuous in the Star sear and hieouM state that
it was the intention of the duke, with the previous sanction
gemernuseme, to recommend to her Majesty 'tome of
those °Boers for. promotion, and others for honorary dis-
tinctions. (Hear, hear.)
NAVY ESTIMATES.
Copt. PECHELL caked whether it wee intended be pow
cued with the navy estimates before the report of the West I
committee on naval and ordnance expenditure should be ht
auls of members ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that
the report was already printed, and, he presumed, m coons
of distribution.
SUGAR DUTIES BILL.
The house then went into committee on this bill.
Clause 1 being proposed,
Lord G. BENTINCK said that he considered the pro-
posed duty of 15s. 2d on wt its cloyed sugars was altogether
inconsistent with the principles on which the government
had framed their other duties, and calculated to operate pre-
judicially upon inferior sugars. He sh nild, therefore, move
as an amendment that the duty on these sugars should be—
in the first year, 14e. 62. • in the second, 13e. 4d. ; in the
third, 12s 3d. ; end in the fourth, i Is.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER supported
the schedule.
After a few words from Mr. Gotteouti,
The committee divided—For the amendment 29
Against it
Lord G. BENTINCK then proceeded to complein that
the whole ol these duties had le en so carelessly, or, at all
events, so incongruously, framed, that in one schedule there
were no fewer than six blunders. The hon. member for
Westbury shook his head, but the hon. member fur
Westbury had shaken his head just as much when a former
blunder was pointed out, • blunder whico, even when
admitted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the hon.
member had taken a week to comprehend. (Hear, hear.)
If the Chancellor of the Exchequer proceeded in his esku-
latierui open ordinary principles be had made six blunders ;
for if one datum was to be followed, that datum being a
medium between foreign musouvadoes and brown-Bayed, the
duties in this schedule for the year 1848 9, invead of 17s.
should be 16s. ed. ; forth.. year 1849.50 instead of 15s. Bel.,
15s. 3d. ; for the year 1850-51 instead of 14s. 4d., 14s. ; for
the year 1851-2 instead of 135., 12s. W. ; for the pear 1142 3
instead of 121. 5d , 12s. 3d ; for the year 1853-4 instead of
lls. 10d , 111. 6d. He should much like to know how
these blunder* had occurred.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER simply
remarked, in reply, that it the noble lord would test his ce-
eulations by the rule of three he would find them quite
erroneous. (Laughter.)
The several schedules haying been meted to,
Lord G. BENTINCK moved the resteration of slaw* 6,
of the act 9 & 10 Vic., c. 63, rip. :
And be it enacted, that no sugar shall be admissible to ertry tor
home consumption at the Feld rates of duty as being the growth and
produce of any forelegs ntry, unless the matter of the ship import-
ing the wont, chat pro to the Will/al. of the adores of her ats-
iesty's Customs at the port of imported- n, if required to do tut, that
meth vulgar ix beefier the growth and produce of the foreign euuntry
from which it is imported.
His object was to protect the refiners of this country from
the refined sugar of the continent, and to protect the ware-
housemen of this country from the system of warehousing
sugar in Antwerp, Amsterdam, and Hamburg.
Mr. W I LSON opposed the clause, and after a few words
from Mr. Baughr,
The oommittee divided—For the clause
Against it
Lord 0. BENTINCK the* mooed another clause, making
it lawful for persons engaged in refining sugar in bond for
exportation, under the 3 & 4 Wiliam IV. and 8 &
9 Victoria, cap. 91, to enter the same fur home consump-
tion under certain regulations.
The CIi•NCELLO• of the EXcligilltlEtt opposed the
clause ; and after a few words hom Mr. THollerioN, Mr.
BettlLY, Mr.Wasole, Mr. B. Surto, Mr. Itattut, and
Mr. Renter,
The committee divided—For the amendment 41
Against it .... . 73-32
The amendment was consequently lost.
The remaining resolutions having been agreed to, the
house resumed, the bill was reported with amendments, and
the report was ordered to be received to .morrow (this day)
at 12 o'clock.
CORRUPT PRACTICES AT ELECTIONS BILL.
On the moti ,11 that the house resolve itself into committe

on the Corrupt Practices at Elections Bill,
Col. SIBTH.ORP objected to this measure in foto. It
would be impossible to carry it through during the present
session without great injustice to so many bon. members who
were elsewhere engaged in the discharge of various public
duties. Ile put it to the noble lord whether it was fair, in
the present state of the house and of the session, to pro-
ceed with • measure of such vital importance.
Lord J. RUSSELL said lie had thought it had been un-
derstood on the last evening that there should be no discus-
sion on the resumption of the committee on this bill, he
therefore should not 'slier upon any debate. All he could
say was, early in the session he hod been blamed by one.
half the house for not bringing forward eome such
forsmeaure,
and it seemed he was now blamed by the other half pro-
cei ding with the bill.
After • few words from Mr C. A/OMIT,
Sir H. HALFORD said that LA the house was
about to legislate for the prevention of corrupt prac-
tices at elections, he thought some care ought to be
taken to provide against the improper use of go-
vernment patronage fur election purposes, The house would
understand what he meant from a short statement of facts.
It would be remembered that the two late sitting members
for the borough of Leicester had been unseated on the
ground of having, by their agents, been guilty of bribery.
The facts were these: on the sth of July last a mail coach
which went through Leicestershire was discontinued, and a
walking messenger was substituted to carry the mail. The
parties interested unanimously expressed • wish to the post-
effice inspector who had been sent down to make the arrange-
ments that a particular person in whom they had confidence
at ould be appointed to the post. The answer returned was
by a letter from the private secretary of the Postmaster.
General, which stated that the appointment had been placed
at the disposal of Mr. Gardner, the member for Leicester.
Now, at this time, and for three weeks before, Mr. Gardner
had ceased to be member for that borough. Now he did
not quertioa the right of the government to dispose of
its patronage as it might think fit, neither did he
speculate why the county members should be in disgrace,
but he must say that many residents in the county of Lei-
cester felt indignant that the appointment should Lave been
placed in the hands of Mr. Gardner, a gentleman who had
no connexia with the county, and was only known in the
borough from the last election. Of course, when Mr. Gard-
ner received the appointment le applied to fill it up to the
very. persons who had carried his election by bribery. In
justice both to the government and the house, ,he felt bound
to make this satement of facts.
After a few words from Mr. URQUHART,
Mr. BAGOE thought some answer ought to be given by
the government to the statement made by his hon. friend
and colleague.
Lord J. RUSSELL replied that he had not heard any
thing of the circumstances just mentioned, and perhaps the
hon. member would repeat the question when some member
of the government connected with tho Post-office was
present.
After a few words from Mr. ELLtoT, Sir H. HALFORD,
and Mr. NLWDEOATII, the cmversation dropped, and the
house went into committee.
The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Bernal) stated the motion before
the committee was that the words " such inquiry. and
investigation to be made on the spot by the commissioners
to be appointed under this act " at the end of clause 2, be
struck out.
Sir. C. ANSTEY supported the amendment for the
omission of the words read by the chairman. He should
vom for the omission of the words, and he should also feel
it to be hie duty to op,.ose the measure in every stage, in
doing which be should endeavour to compel the noble lord
to elect between the present bill and theae measures that hs
had stated it to be essential should be passed during the pre-
sent session.
Mr. HODGSON should offer all the opposition in his
power to the bill.
Mr. SPOONER said that not one single word had been
offered by the government in explanation of the bill, and
when any hon. member got up to argue against it the oppo-
site side deserted their benches. He had hitherto supported
the measure, but from the conduct A the government hill
bad reason to believe he had justly incurred the obloquy
and censure of his honoured° and gallant friend,
as there was an evident want of sincerity on
the part of the noble lord. The bill would
entail great expense, and one which would be quite
useless, by the employment of barristers as commissioners,
for it would be necessary to have counsel on both shies. It
was, therefore, far better to leave the matter in the beads of
the present tribunals.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL intreated hon. gentlemen
net to enter into discussions not affecting the deuce under
consideration, as that would only promote the object openly
avowed by the hon. and learned member for Youghal, that,
namely, of defeating the bill by delay. The present clause,
bad already undergone a discussion of three or four hours,
and the chief evil attendant upon adjourning the considers.
tion of particular clauses appeared to him to be that hon.
members forgot what had been said during former discos-
'ions. He hoped the house would permit a division to be
speedily come to, and thought such division would be ee-
°lt'd as final with respect to the appointment of coo-
missioners.
Mr. HENLEY thought that the question of Poet-oats
patronage which had been incidentally touched upon. wee
one of great importance, as in his opinion goverment
patronage was one of the sources of corruption which the ob-
ject of the bill was to put down. He did not think tie
decision of the committee upon the present clause ought *
have any effect upon the other parts of the bill.
Mr. MULLINGS supported the amendment, and seem•
mended that the whole subject should be postponed until'
the next session.
After a short conversation,
The committee divided—For the amendment l6
Agsinst it
After a few observations from Col. SIBTIIOIP the clause
was agreed to.
On clause 3
Mr. ANSTEY complained that sufficient facilities were
not given for any borough reported against to defend itself
frODI c
lay and protested against oonstitnessies
being taken nkrpriss. He would move that the Week la
the clause be wed up with the words " not more them 21
nor less than 14 days."
lfir..l. STE WART suggested that some notice should be
given to the authorities of • borough when a committee of
inquiry was appciated.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL recommended that the
minimum of the notice should be seven days.
Sir R. PEEL thought the proposal of the hon. member
for Youghal a fair one, and, as a friend to the measure, he
would recommend the hon. and learned gentleman to adopt

it. In every such ease, care ought to be taken that the par-
ties bad sufficient notice.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL consented to adopt the
words " not more than 21 days, nor less than 14 days ;" and
they were inserted in the clause.
Mr. HENLEY pointed out discrepancies between the
duties assigned to "committees," and those assigned to
" commissioners," which clearly ought to be the same.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL admitted that this was
the Me, and promised that the two provisions should be
made to agree with each other.
Mr. ANSTEY thought the commissioners ought only to
have the power of collecting evidence, and reporting the
same to the Ouse.
Mr. J. STEWART objected to the bill, because it made
the commissioners both proucut ire and judges, a principle
which was abhorrent to the constitution.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that the duty of the
committee would be to make iuquiry and report their can-
clueion thereueon to the house. The house would then de-
cide what course to pursue.
Mr. HENLEY thought the more they proceeded into the
bill the more confused they got. (Rea, hear.)
Mr. ANSTEY objected to the committee reporting their
conelusione to the house.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that in certain cases an election
committee might now report to the house, that further in-
quiry into cases of bribery was n‘cessary, and the Speaker
therefore nominated a committee.
Mr. STUART could not but think that commissioners,
who were to hold a court for the purpose of prosecuting in-
quiries affecting the rights aed characters of individuals,
were exercising functions essentially judicial. But if their
functions weru not judicial, the application of the same words
to them and to the committee,whose functions were judicial,
would lead tO crest confusion.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL explained.
Col. SIBTHORP, however, interrupted him to observe
that they were really wasting time. He advised the Soli
eitor-General to go home and study the bill, and come down
hereafter better reformed upon it. They appeared to be a
set of inc impeteat bunglers altogether ; never were such a
lot bundled up together. (Laughter.)
Mr. HUDSON asked what the government meant to do
provided a body of electors in any particular borough were
found guilty of corrupt practices ? lie wished the Solicitor-
General would make a return to the house of election expen-
diture. He did not mean at Devonport, because he knew
that Devonport was a nomination borough of the govern-
ment, and that the right hon. gentleman was returned for
it, not on account of any merits of his own, but because the
government wished him to be elected for it. The right hon.
gentleman was a very great man, no doubt, and had a very
cavalier way of treating members. (Here there were very loud
groans and cries of " Oh l" proceeding from both sides of
the house.) He had no objection to wait until gentlemen
had done crying "Oh." lie knew bow to deal with popular
assemblies. (Oh.) He had always overcome opposition in
them by patience and perseverance. (Oh.) lie repeated
this hil did not go far enough, and be thought it would do
no good.
Lord J. RUSSELL, u to the course they had pur-
sued upon this bill, wished to observe that when the go-
vernment, at the desire of the house, bad taken it in charge,
they could never have conceived that such personal attacks
would be made upon his bon. end learned friend as that to
which he had been just exposed. (Loud cre'a of " Hear,
bear.") lie hoped the house would not countenance such a
method of discussing the measure. (Renewed cries of
" Hear, hero.")
Mr. R. PALMER wished, as a member of the profession
which was adorned by the hon. and learned gentleman, to
express his deep regret that any such personal attack should
be made upon him. He hoped the hon. gentleman (Mr.
Hudson), having had time for se Section, would feel that he
ought not to have made that attack—(" No," from Mr.
Hudson)—but if he did not he was sure there was not another
member in the house who felt with him. (Loud cheering.)
In his opinion the Solicitor-General added lustre to his pro-
fession and to that assembly. (Renewed cheers.)
The CHAIRMAN then put the question.
Mr. ANSTEY rose amid general groaning, and said he
objected to the word " and" in this clause. (Loudlaughter
and deep groans.) The hon. member, amid much interrup-
tion, persisted in addressing the house !or some time in sup-
port of the objection.
Mr. HODGSON said the hen. member appeared to he so
much interrupted that he thought it his duty to move that
the chairman report progress.
The gallery was then cleared for a division, but none took
place, and on re-entering the gallery we found
Mr. BRIGHT appealing to the hon. and learned member
for Youghal to consider whether in the course he was pur-
suing he might not be laying himself open to the imputation
of factiousness. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. ANSTEY repudiated the 'suggestion of fectiousness as
applied to his conduct, and proceeded to move an amend-
ment to the effect that the proposed commissioners should
not have power to decide upon any of the cases which had
been already adjudicated upon by regularly constituted tri-
bunals of the house, but should be merely empowered to re-
port evidence to the house.
The committee divided—Fogainst ir the amendment
124 23
At

The clause was agreed to.
On clause 4,
Mr. ANSTEY proposed to insert the words, " except the
Fitting member or members ;" in relation to the examina-
tion on oath of members by the commissioners.
The committee divided—For the amendment 22
Against it
The clause was then agreed to, and the house resumed,
the committee to sit again at five o'clock to-morrow (this

day).
THE TITHE RENT CHARGE, &c. (IRELAND)
(No. 2) BILL.
After some conversation as to whether it should be taken
at the morning or evening sitting, was fixed pro forma for
five o'cl ,ck on Monday, when the bon. member who has
charge of the bill (Mr. Hamilton) will state the day on
which it will be hroneht on.
PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he proposed to consider the
amendments of the Lords to this bill in committee of the
whole house, if there was no objection in point of form to
that course.
The SPEAKER was not aware of any precedent for such
a course; but in many instances the house had referred
amendments made by the Loris to committees up stain, and
he knew no reason why the house should not refer the con-
sideration of such amendments to a committee of the
whole house.
Mr. HENLEY inquired whether some of the Lords'
amendments to tnis bill did not trench on the privilege of
the house ?
The SPEAKER believed that some of those amendments
did interfere with the privilege of the Commons, but these
would come under the notice of the committee.
Lord J. RUSSELL intimated that be should propose that
the house go into committee for the purpose of considering
these amendments on Monday next, and in answer to a
question the noble lord added that there were some of the
amendments he should move the house do not agree to,
and that others be admitted.
The committee was then fixed for Monday next.
The Distillery from Sugar Bill was re committed pre
forma ; the house resented, and the report was received ;
to be read a third time on Monday.
MARRIAGE (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The LORD-ADVOCATE moved that the second reading
of this bill be fixed for Monday next, at 12 o'clock.
Mr. ARKWRIGHT said it was evident the 12 o'clock
sittings were ingenious devices for smuggling obnoxious bills
through the house. He begged therefore to move that the
words "12 o'clock" oe left out.
The house divided—For the original motion 79
For the amendment 24-55
The second reading of the bill was then fixed for Monday,
at 12 o'clock.
WINDSOR APPROACHES BILL.
The report on this bill was received; a new clause was
added, binding the parties to the bill not to exceed the sum
of 85.0001. in executing the whole of the works.
In answer to a question by Mr. B. OSBORNE,
Lord MORPE ra said, that if at any future time a
minister came down and asked for more money to complete
these approaches he would do so in violation of this act.
REGISTRATION OF SASINES (SCOTLAND).
The Lord ADVOCATE moved for leave to bring in a bill
to authorise the lords of council and sessions to regulate the
rates or dues of registration to be charged by the keepers of
the registers of Basin's reversions, &c., m Scotland. Leave
given.
MR URQUHART'S CORRESPONDENCE.
Lord J. RUSSELL moved that the order for address re-
specting Mr. flrquhart's correspondence be discharged, and
that an arm ruled order be substituted.
Mr. URQUHART hoped that the noble lord would give
some reason for his moticn.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the hon. member for Suit-
ford's motion had been originally objected to by his noble
friend, who had arranged with him that it was to be pro-
posed in an amended form. Subsequently, when the motion
was made, his noble friend, thinkii.g it was in the terms pre-
viously arranged, treated it as an unopposed return,- but, on
subsequent examination, it was ascertained that the motion
asked for correspondence of 1837.8, instead of 18339, as had
been agreed
am on. For these reasons he now moved that the
order be ended, and the dates 1838 9be substituted for
1837.8.
Mr. URQUHART protested against being given papers
for which he had never ask, d, and refused those which he
had been promised. He contended that his motion was
strictly in accordance with the understanding into which he
had enter, d with the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign
Affairs. He should decline the vrrespondence now offered.
(The hon. member immediately left the house.)
Lord PALMERSTON said that he had understood the
hon. member to ask for the correspondence with Mr. Beck-
house relative to the Portfolio, and that was what he had
agreed to give. The motion, however, which was now
.aught to be rescinded was for correspondence re-
lative to the hon. member's neat, and that corre-
spondence he (Lord Palmerston) had distinctly intimated to
the hon. member could not be given. On constitutional
grounds he thought that that correspondence could not be
made the subject of discussion in that house.
Mr. ANSTEY quoted Mr. Urquhart's speech to prove
that the motion did not refer to correspondence connected
with the Portfolio, but to his recall from the legation of
Constantinople.
The motion was then put and agreed to, and
The house adjourned at a quarter before 2 o'clock.

BRILLTUNI- --BALE OW BENI BILL IN COIOWITIIN YES-
TERDLY.—Mr. Home's amendment for exempting coffee end
tea-shops from the operation of the bill, was earned, not ne-
gatived, by a majority of 10.

DUBLIN ELECTION CONLIIITTEE, YESTIERDAT:TIie
scrutiny was resumed, the petitioners objecting to three
votes. At the close of the proceedings only one had been
struck off.