The Express.
London, England, 1849-03-09 00:00:00

'lbaispat: err did
mass ameba sr ti r morals. (Her.)
Nov with regard to edesal mesa, in Andsgesten of
transportation was pesmi That sentence was sometimes
sed on paeans who arrived 6C a tinte of life that
they could only be a basin to the colony to which
Any 'night be ant, end the abaft 1 that
eame to this country with a fair claim
rthe eost of maintaining such persons. In-
strustiefas had, therein*, been betted that the surgeons of
the assent ships examine end report with regard to such
persees, whether they were in a condition to beer the voy-
age to Australia, or whether they would be likely_ it sent
there to make themselves useful to the colonis.s. The sen-
tences death persons as were in such a condition must be
essamuted to imprisonment In this country. With regard
to the recommendations of the noble lord he felt consider-
ably diseppointed, because he had hoped that he would
have made some valuable suggestions which he
mold assure him would be r. enved by the govern.
mood in the spirit in which they were tendered, if
asey said be carried into practice. His first recommends-
fled wee, that they should rer.ur to the colony of North
Anstrelii, which, after an expenditure of 15 0001., had been
given up. That question was in an unsettled state when the
mead government came into office, and they found that it
was a soiree of great expense, witheat any corresponding
adeologes. In the two despatches of the right hon. gentle-
eppit embishe (Mr. Gladstone), a great deal of din-ration had
Mon lift to the governor. He believed the right boa. gen-
tlemen would not wish to be answerable for the success of
the experiment made ha that colony. It was a new colony,
nod was to consist of exiles from this country. All hope of
mem for such a system depended on those °soviets finding
their way into mixed socasty—(hear, hear)—in dispersing
themselves and being last in general society ; and when this
eoold not be done it would only entail expense to send out
such exiles, and it presented no correspoading advantages.
The next recommendation of the noble lord was that they
should resume trasportation to New South Wales.
That was a matter under consideration. A comber
of tickets of leave had been sent to that colony
an the understanding that a amber of free emigrants should
he sent there, and what wee more valuable, a part la
money which these easiest, sand oat of their wages
go
to repay the cost of their conveyance to the colony.
ersuld operate as 'a stimulus to induetry, and the many
which they paid would be applied to loomoto fres °at
clan. The third recommendation of the noble lord was
osionsent should be reamed in Van Diemee's land. •
discretionary power was given to the government
amain we tuber of convicts to the coloniets. That
greatdidisidties and denser; complains were made ttope*
Jag the sue, sad token imputations were cast on the,
govermasegeoresting the distribaden of the convicts. The
eaten was, be thought justly, donenneed by a parlionei-
toy amminise is 1888 r a system of slavery, which won
Is.. tent with the free government of England. (Hear,'
beer.) He ht there wee a peat advantage in re-
taining the eat of transportation itself—(hear,
hear) ; he hoped it would be possible with
the modification now introduced to maintain it. Bat
be was sure if they were to retain it they must net
multiply convictions indefinitely. (Hear, hear.) If they
multiplied to a great extent the number of sentences of
=tsties, it would create on discontent the part of the
. (Hear, bear.) If the number was small, the
eenvlets might be usefully employed as free labourers in the
colonies In which labour was so much sought for. They
were bound not only to consider their own interests, but the 1
interests of the colonies. (Hear, hear.) He trusted that it
would be possible to carry out the system so as to combise
the interests of both, and the best way of Orating
that object was to let the system work quietly
till it could be judged of by its effects. (Heir, hear.)
However haportaat and necessary such discussions as the
pres rat, they still created addition' embarrassment with
respect to the colonies. The more silently they:worked the
better. It was better that the colonists should judge by the
result, rather than alas them beforehand, and therefore he
considered it desirable that the government should be left a
Neeretion in working out the details. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. HUME said that It would be most desirable that the
hems should be informed of any measures Wren in respect
to this important subject during the year before it was dis-
owned is the house. He was muck pleased that the right
hoe. gentleman had been obliged to admit that the noble
lord at the bead of the government, and lord Grey, had
emu to rash and lusty conclusions on this matter. He
essisidered the ever-varying manner in which they
treated their convicts was very unfortunate. He
differed front the right honourable gentleman in
thinking - that they had made a useful reform in their
prisons here. Pentonville had been built at a great cost, and
the prisoners there cost three times more than the ordinary
amount of maintaining prisoners. Some system should be
adopted. He thought there was ample time for determining
whether the silent or separate system should be adopted. He
ooasidered that throe who were sentenced to trans; ()dation
should be sent ea soon se possible out of the country, and
that it was a bad system to be employing prisoners
in making mate and such trifliag things. His opinion
was, that every attempt at reforming the convict at
hone would be fruitless, and in that opinien he was
fortified by the testimony of thou who had the charge of
convicts. On one occasion that he visited the public esta-
blishment la Westminster the keeper said that he would
so forty miles to see one who had been reformed. He be-
lieved
the best course to take would be, to appoint
sew minister of judo, to superintend the convict
Ein, and to see that the errors which the
honourable gentleman pointed out were avoided.
right hon. baronet appeared to consider that thc system
tickets of leave to convicts who had gone out after
ng
a cartels mown of punishment would be
attended with improved results. Was he aware dud the
towns were then crowded with persona who had each
debits ? The principle of assignment would obviate ell in-
gonvenienme ; and it should not be objected to from any
mawkish seafterente of humanity. The detention *fee many
primmer's( late years in this country had lad to very had
sesaltr. Transportation ought never to have been • -
denied, and he hoped that in future as few mark t' as par-
able would be allowed to remain in this country. He
thought the right hon. baronet took toe favourable
a view of the separate system. The practice
of the government bad been very erroneous
for the lest four or five years ; they had now to some extent
same' their steps, and In the end they would be compelled
.te return to assignment with hard labour.
• Sir J. PAKINGTON thought ithad been the feeling of
She home and of the country for some time past that the
etas 'fads question wee meet unsatisfactory, and he there-
foreibmaked the noble load for calling attention to it.
Mr. GUMMI wished to say a few words on a part of
the shiest in minas* to which he thought justice had not
boa dens le pintas who were greatly affected by it; he m-
itered te the peeled= system which was applied to the whsle
I body of anviste in Van Diemen's Land in 1838. That eye
tea was, he believed, introduced by the noble lord at the
bead of the government, whilst he was Secretary for the
Colonies ; it was fully developed under Lori Stanley, and
continued in full force during his lordship's tenure of office
and during the short period, that he (Mr. Gladstone) held
II office in the Colonial Department, he found it hi
duty to put a cheek to it, and to advise his
' colleagues to detensathe upon a virtual suspension
of *imported= to Van Dienten's Land for eighteen menthe
or two years. Now, though it was perfectly true that the
system to which he referred bad been productive of the
greatest horrors and iniquities, he thought it only due to
those who But adopted and to those who subsequently de.
'eloped it, to state that thine horror* and iniques were not
assessable merely on the system itself. He would not ven-
ture to express himself confidently as to the operation of the
system under the moat favourable circumstances; but thighs
must say, that had the most perverse ingenuity been sw-
atted, there could uareely lave been in the mode of manage-
ment a greater disregard of all the roles of prudence
sad matins ; while such was the absence of informa-
tion, that die blows struck against its continuance
e“ the semegusnca not of official but of private cam
musiestises. He thought it but fair to Lord Ptanley
te say that the plan.to which he gar his an-lion when in
eau was never brought fairly into operation in Van
tra'a Lead. (Hear, hear.) Of that fact there„ na the
poseis reef in the circumstance that of the vast sass
Id amide la Van Diemen's land, amounting to 30,080,
*ism were at that moment two or those thousand in pro-
Wee parties, Sir William Denims spoke is lone last
el the change which had taken place for the better
shift the seal and energy of the osetreller-ge-
seed • had been brought to bear u the natter ;
and it appeared from the eon • It re.
;it tmatdat the horrors and breguleritist formerly
had almost entirely ceased. After the avowal of
mites meat by the right hon. gentleman, kr the Inailver.
*et terms used with regard to the disoontiaaanst4ittif tram-
i=ta..hee to Van Dienlea's Land, mustwas net .
es those tenth but fie ea Mat he ht
Wit—eble *toad was quite justified in robs:fug Is the sub-
Vet, sot only become of the important* of the oldest itself,
het became Uwe bad beim great precipitancy e.
the noble WA, tistSserrawyef Slate for the ear,
hear.) That noble lard bad exhibited greet
=obi= ago in deterinhang to break up the
at Norfolk lased, and to rename the
both of that island and a New
ratilifalse le Van Hisman's Load, after a pledge bad
bum gime le the latter colony that transportation should
rest be rewash. (Hear, hear.) The right hon=an
INA Mad that a discretion wt* given to Sir W. on
the sal eat t bat it appeared from the papers that en the
16th of February, 1847, the noble lord the Secretary ler the
Colonise imtmated Sir W. Denleon to take meseares to
break up, with the lest possible delay, the establhhmentst
Norfolk Imbed, and withdraw the whole of the meads to
the settlement at Tastnan's Peninsula. Sir W. Denison, in-
deed, with great judgment, took upon himself the respoasi•
Wily of disobeying then instruction', and his disobes
wise redo", appeared from the papers, by the noble lord,
• (Hear, hear.) It was important that in future
*We should be a closer shiervame of the circustipection,
mutton, and 8110% Irhiek VIM so necessary In this depart-
moat
moat the hediess of the Weak' Secretary. Now he
seseld ma se any further Mahn gases of transportation
seism* awe le impress Ide great iesWm at homing an
eatid dedmatlia ant the wee to be polusily re
=l,ant** lad made up thek retinas to
Ida the as well as they could, and that
they were ast le be drawn away by popular, or
even by Teal ellestlems, to the system of transportation,
from the meek tithe comparative and relative advantages
which it pressalltd. (Hem, hear.) He hoped the right hon.
ratan= aid the noble lord at the head of the colonial de-
partment would et al Saw keep in view the immense
paateem tzteadiag es kr se pensible the area over which
trenegortatiou wm to be extended. He was sorry to bs
=le admit that, will:laud to transportation, as in
10 may other sa el esionial policy, they had
diesesnied from the el their ancestors. (Hear,
hear.) Their mast= bed eadinteed and managed trens!
portatkia beam than they themselves did. The states of the
North Antrim Vohs ressivall starlets when they were