The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-12 00:00:00

Societal matters, bat not with regard to any dtfficoltiee
raging from the pressure put on him with respect to the
revesiage of Ow Admiralty in the dockyards.
Me. Durasli —No, he would not speak of such small mit-
ten as thee. Ile would speak generally as to the extreme
which he bound in tarrying on his office, and he
would very asturally COMO to me for support gaol omosel.
These conversations with Mr. Stafford wok place in the
House of Commune. I had • geese deal to do then, and
had o formal interview with Mr. Stafford. After questions
were answered, about half-past 4 o'clock, lo hind the
Speaker's chair, it he wished to consult me, he did consult
me. Generally *peeking of course, the questions and eon-
'tolerant:ma placed beiges me were not on matters much in
detail, but my advice to him and my counsel—my general
counsel—was to coutiliate as much as possible. 1 looked
at the novelty of his pounce, and thought that time would
settle all there el Sr renew, and I always found on the part of
Mr. Stafford an catteme desire to follow the general advice
I gave him.
Ferguson Sir Davie—You will observe Mr. Stafford has
stated that he was very much pressed ou the subject of the
dockyard patronage and appointineuts, and that in a con•
venation with Sir Baldwin Walker he (Mr. Stafford) says
in hii evidence he thinks the words he used were that
load Derby and the eh .ncellor of the Eachequer would
not any more than the members of any other government
consent to leave all their patronage in the hands of their
oppon,nts.
Mr. Dieneli-1 thought I had answeted that question,
hut I will if you wish repeat more explicitly what I stated
Sir Ferguson Garin—Perhaps you will give us your opi-
nion upon that.
Mr. Disraeli—Yes. I
member of the late administration on the subject of his or
their put/wage, or with the view of influencing either him
or them in the exercise of that patronae for the purposes
of elections or anything else. Such a subject never could m-
ese to me, nor do I think that it could occur to any person
in my position. It did not fall under my consideration in
any way. These are subjects which devolved en other per-
sons to consider. Mr. Stafford expressed and represented to
me from the Slit the very great difficulties which he had
to contend with, and from what I could ace, this sort of
spirit—the spirit of jealousy and suspicion that arose frem
the cause I have am rted to—appeared to me to wear off.
The Chairman—Ded Mr. Stafford represent to you that
his difficulties were increwed by the preceding government
having tilled up all the appointments and having given all
the promotions to their own political partisans.
Mr. Disraeli—No. Mr. Seaford never went into any
details of that kind. Mr. Stalford—l think i: is right to
state—Mr. Stafford cl4l mention to me that he was
placed in a position of difficulty with the Sur-
veyor. General of the Navy, and I remember that I
gave him my advice. I did not go into any
details whatever. I merely looked neon the Sur-
veyor. General to be a permanent civil servant of the crown,
and I told him my advice to him was to treat the civil !Cr.
i vahts if the crown n a spirit not only of conciliation but of
implicit confide ow. I was infiaeneed myself by my own
experience. When I went to the Treasury, the principal
permanent civil servants and officers of the crown were aLL
men eve nof extremely liberal opinions. They were ups
pointed by the preview government, and they were eef I
course in their political opinions hostile to ours; bat I
treated Duna all with the most implicit confidence, and the"
served me with the greatest zeal and fidelity, and, I ingee
say, even devotion. I recommended Mr. Staff otd, with so-
gore. to the surveyor-general, to trait him in the maw
way. I did not go into any details as to We cause of the
mounderstandings, but I gave him that g 1 admoni-
tion and advice. Mr. Stafford told me he should act upon
it, and I believe that he did act upon it. That es the only
question, that is the only personal instance, that ever
was brought before me, the question of his miounderstand-
ing with the Surveyor-General. Same time after that—
what I mention occurred at the earl formation of the late
government—he consulted me in the !louse of Commons on I
the letter of Sir Baldwin Walker behind the Speaker's
chair—the letter which Sir Baldwin Walker wrote to the
Duke of Northumberland. Mr. Stafford showed it. Ido
not know whether he showed me the original letter or •
copy. I cannot charge my memory with that, but I know
that the letter was put before mo in a hurried way as a
proof that he hail not succeeded in establishing that good
understanding which I felt and told him was required,
and which I reminded him he should endeavour to esta-
blish. When I read that letter, I confess I was excessively
amazed, and I remember making this observation, fur
I was not then familiar either with the office or the
person of Sir Baldwin Walker. I said to Mn. Stafford,
" Well, really, if this is the tone in which your overtures are
accepted, I think lie had better resign." Now, I distinctly
recollect Mr. Stafford laying, "Oh, no ; it is quite out of
the within ; the Duke of Northumberland has made up,
his mind to consider this merely as a strictly confidential
te,minunication, and I suppose I must bear it and do what]
can to make things up." I said, "It you make up your
mind that that is the ease, and Sir Baldwin Walker dues
not resign, rely upon it you bad better see him and have
some private conversation with him, and make him uader-
stand that you wish to work cordially with aim, and do not
remailawith any hostile feelings on either aide." Mr. Staf-
ford told me he should act on my advice. That might
have been is the beginning of May, and I never heard the
'object seam. But Mr. Stafford called oa me ia Downing-
street. It was the only time he ever pa dew an official in-
terview with respect to the estimates, and after I had gone
through some business, I said, " How are you going on in
yeas office ?" and he said, " Oh, we cannot go oa better.
As to Sir Baldwin Walker and myself, it is impossible to
work better than we do." That was the end of the affair,
sad I was therefore perfectly astonished to hear oiling
inieunderstandioge.
Mr. Stafford was subsequently examined, but deigned
firmly, and three or four times in succession in sumer he
questions from Sir B. Hall, to disclose the names of the po-
litical friends he consulted at to the expediency of sia-
soWag the circular of 1849, as it would involve on his
part a dereliction of the decencies of confidence. He ad-
mitted giving the dinners at Plymouth and charging them
in the naval contingencies, bat stated that the guests
were chiefly 'Ames in the service ; and that, though as
imprudent thing ea his part, it was sot dictated by politi-
cal motives. He admitted having stood with Mr. Holt at
Greenwich and Sir J. Maxwell and Sir J. Romilly at
Devonport to see the men take their tickets, but asserted
that it was only out of curiosity to see • eight so novel and
ingenious. He denied ever having written any letter to
Captain Dundee, calling upon that officer to use his balk-
twee is Deptford yard for Mr. Heft.
After some evidence from Captain buncombe, the mar
mitten adjourned to 12 o'clock this day.