The Express.
London, England, 1848-06-24 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAbIEN I.

MOUSE OF LOHOS.—FRIDAY, JUNE 23.
'1 he LORD Cii,ANCXLIAR took his seat at 6 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINLAS.
SIMOND READlNCK—Waterbowe's Charities Estate; Peri of
Denial:bile of Bridgewater's) Estate ; Edinburgh and Glasgow
Bath's,' No. I) (Amendment Acts Ao and Branches, ho.); Bina.
THIR READINGS.—Nurth Western Railway (diversions at Skip.
ten. Dastertee, and eedbenth) ; Aberdare RIIIIVIAT Act Amman's-:t ;
Volk, Newcastle, and Berwick hallway. late York and Newcastle
Railway (main line improvement) ; Brighton Gaslight and Coke
ComPici7; Norfolk Railway (amendment of acts and extension of
time fur commenting Hesilltam and Dim hallway); Mtn.
PUBLIC RUSIN EIS.
SECOND READINGS.—Joint Stock Companies ; Administration of
JusUce (Noe. I and 2) ; Protection °f imnos. from vexatious milers;
REPORT OF AIIENEGIENT3.—Evicted Destitute Poor (Ireland)
Bill.
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE (No. 1), ADMIN-
ISTRATION OF JUSTICE (No. 2) BILLS; ANI)
PROTECTION OF JUSTICES FROM VEXATIO US
ACTIONS BILL.
Lord CAMPBELL moved the eteondireading of these
bps•
The Duke of RICHMOND would not oppose the bills,
but there were certain of their demi.' to winch he should
object in a future stage.
The hills were then read a second time.
CHARGE OF FELONY AGAINST A PEER.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—I wish to call your lord-
ships' attention to certain proceeding.. Your lordships are
aware that by an act of Owen Anne, and by another act
pined in the reign of Ueo. IV., in cases of felony committed
by e. peer of Scotland, a commission is directed to be issued
into Scotland, and tic cumrui.sieners named therein are
directed by the act to cause a grand jury to he summoned,
before who n the bills are to be presented. These proceed-
ings required by the act hue been followed in a case to which
I am about to direct your lordships' attention, and we
are informed that the commission has diecharged its
duties, and that writs of certiorari have been issued to bring
the proceedings before th's house. Yesterday these writs
were returueu to the Howe at Lords ; and, from the papers,
it appears that bills have been found against Viscount
Arbuthnot for forgery. I* is now for your lordships to con-
sider what is the prdper course to be adopted. The act pro-
vides that after such proceedings the ruttier proc-edings
which are usual in the case of a peer chnrged with felony in
Eugland shall be followed. I lodieve that the course has
uniiormly been to app int a committee to inquire into pre-
cedents, and to advise the house what proceeiiings it would
be proper to adopt. I find, also, that the counts universally
adopted has been to order Black Rod to take the party ac
clued into custody. In some cases, where the party has
~ready been in custody, it hu not been thought tit to take
that sup; but in thepresent case, in which the party isnot in
custody, I would suggest,to prevent the possibility eta failure
of justice, that there should be no delay in directing Week
Red to take the r arty accused into custody. ',therefore, move,
my lords, for the appointment of a committee to inquire into
the matter. and also that Black Rod shall be directed to take
JOlNViscouut rbuthnet into custody.—Agreed to,
JT STOCK COMPANIES BILL.
On the motion of Earl GaAnutee this bill was read a
second time.
EVICTED DESTITUTE POOR (IRELAND) BILL.
Lord REDESDALE brought up the report on this bill.
The noble lord said, in order to prevent the irregulerity
which took place last night, he should on Monday move
standing orders to the effect that when a bill was committed
OT recommitted in the absence of the noble lord the chair.
man of coornittees, that the house should regime. The
noble lord concluded by moving that the amendment, as
made lut night, be adopted.
The Marquis of CLAN lIICARDE rid, that on the third
reading he should move that the amendments adopted last
night be rejected.
Lord MONTEAGLE tli'ended tho amendments, as calcu-
lated to afford greater reFef.
The Earl of MALMES BURY said that the third reading
of the bill shoal d not take place en Monday if the noble
marquis (Clanricude) wished to have a full attendance of

pers h.
e T Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought, as the amend-
ments whim had been introduced would be likely to lead to
aetious consequences, that an opportunity should be given
for a reconsideration of the amendments adopted last night,
but its the measure had lour been before their lordships, he
did nut consider that it would he necessary to postpone the
third reading of the bill beyond Monday.
The report was then received, and the bill ordered to be
read a th.r.l time on Mo- doe.
THE POLES AT POSEN.
Lord KINNAIRD, pursuant to notice, rose to put the
foil swing question, Whether a copy of the can.
vention, si,„ned by the Prussian Royal Commissary, General
Willisen, at Jarrataweie, with the Poles on the 11th of
April, and proclamations by the same general subsequent to
that period, !Old been C immunicat.l to the government by
her Majesty's ministry at Berlin ; and if so, whether the go-
vernment would object to lay each papers on the table r"
His object was to have the best means of contrauicring ote-
meets imputing acts of great cruelty to those untortuoate
People, the Pole*, who hod b:en serinsedy injured in the
estimation of the it friends by the circulation of such reports,
Stet through the medium of the Ecglish, and afire wards by
the (iceman, press.
The Msiquis of LANSDOWNE sympathised with the
motion of the noble lord, yet he deprecated interference in
matters of foreign policy with which this country had no
thing to do. lie thought he was tthrefore justified, in con-
sequence of the extreme inconvenience which might result
from its being suppo:cd that the parliament of this country
had taken cognisance of such proceedings, in refusing to
secede to the motion of the noble lord.
The Earl of HARROWBY was very glad that the motion
had been made, because it gave hint en opportunity or stating
his cordial concurrence to the sentiments of the n',ble lord
who had brought the subject before their lordships.
Lord BEAUMONT said the man was profoundly igno-
rant of what was passing hi Europe who did not perceive
the possibility o• the events now taking place in Poland Lead-
ing to a gener d European War. This country had already
done much harm by refraining to express its opinion on such
events. Had it done so bore the lawless invite on of Den-
rank, that daneeroue sr oeession would not now have had to
be terminated by protracted negotiations.
The Eirl of ELLENBOROUGH, 03 the point of order,
earnests d that log speeches ought not to he merle on a mere
quisq is, hick was only permitted for the sake of avoiding
the necessity of a motion. Nothing was more inconvenient
than to touch incidentally and irregularly on the convulsions
now agitating Europe from one end to the other, and on the
effect they were likely to have on our relations with those
states. Tho reason was that the op'osion of the house was
apt to be misrepresented ; for, if a motion were submitted,
noble lords who w. re acquainted with the subject would
then come fully prepared to discuss it.
Lord BEAUMONT prc.csed.d to speak in explanation,
whereupon
Earl FITZ WILLIAM rose to order, and the discussion
terminated.

STATE OF IRELAND.
Earl FITZWILLIA‘I then rose to bring forward
the resolutions of which he had given notice, on
the state of Ireland. It was now !even months since
parliament assembled; and what had been done?
the condition of Ireland such as to anti fy the house??
At the meting of parliament, government invited them,
the whole of Ireland celled on them, to legi-late for the sup-
pression of the crimes there prevailing. Without the least
doubt or delay, parliament assented to the measures pro-
posed, and were prepared even to strengthen the hands of
government with still more powerful measures. But the
government exercised a wise discretion, and the result had
peeved that they had mats na immoderate demand on
parl;atu, nt. The law thus passed, had been administered
with the greatest discretion and the tout untirinz zeal and
energy : and to the executive of Ireland, next to the govern-
ment, was the country indebted for the success of that mea-
sure. It would i;1 _:come either house of parliament to
separate without expressing this coin, on so generally enter-
tained. The government had performed a great and diffi•
cult ta..k with signal success; and the Irish executive
had had the rare felicity of enlisting in its aid
the almost unanimous feeling of the people. Formerly that
feelinglad been against the law ; but on the late occasion
three had been no difficulty in inducing witnessee to come
forward, and other paries to take the necessary steps for
security the execution of the law. Brat, he would ask, what
further hod been done ? Did the house suppose the condi.
tion of Ireland was such as to require no further legislation ?
They had pissed laws for the prevention of crime; but what
had they done to benefi. the condition of the people, and
strengthen their attachment to the cause of peace and order ?
In framing such measures it wee necessary to have a due
regard to all class( s and conditions of the Irish people. On
a aubjec: dike thi., he could not refrain referring t i the
coarse of legislation in last years. In the last eession,
five impotent measures had been promised, a new poor law,
one for making a loin of a million and a half to landed
trodrietors, one for improving waste lands, en 1 others for
facilitating the sale of encumber d estates; of these, only
the two first had hcen passed into law. The sum of a
million and a half wan: no gni at amount for the purpose in
view ; but how had it operated ? Already, of the million
and a half, the commissioners had sanctioned the advance of
upwards of 1,410,0901. ; hut thin did little unless the money
was actually advanced, and paid away as wages, from which
some good to the people might have resulted. The real ad-
vance, however, instead of a million and a half had only
been, according to the last return, '220,0001., and this was to
improve 19 millions of acres of land! The great object was
to improve the agriculture of Ireland, and increase the pro-
duction ; and in doing this, they ought not to lose eight of
the fact that it had been necessary to supply an extensive
destruction of the staple food of six million. of people.
But the legislature had passed the poor law. He for one did
not complain of that law. In some electoral divisions, it was
true, the poor rate was 35., 5.., or 75., in the pound : and in
one division in the west of Ireland it amounted to actually
more than the landlords received. He did not suffer from
any such burden ; in two of the divisions on his estates the
rate was only 21d., and in none was it higher than 21. If
the poor rate was no higher throughout Ireland than in the
county of Wicklow, no landlord would have reason to com-
plain. He had stated these facts to show that he could not
be actuated by any personal feeling in the matter. But
when the rate sin mated to 31., 55., and 76. in the pound,
the matter wee one demanding serious consideration. He
asked their lordships—and he knew what must be the
answer—whether they desired the continuance of a
state of things which must render property valueless,
and at the same time destroy a most useful class of society in
Intend, OR whom the burden of these rates fell ? Ile was
confident that unless the house reconsidered that measure,
in its iucideece upon property, and in the divisions which
had hem male for the purpose of rating, the result he had
indie .ted must ensue. especially in the ectirdy of Doiseg..l
end others 111 the w.at of Ireland. He must alt there,
but-
ever, to impose one more burden noon land, to be tal,n limo
the Amadeu oh the pco;k. Fa the take of peace uul truu-

quillity, the security of the protestant church, and the safety
of the empire, he asked their lordships to establish the Ro-
man catholic religion in that °purvey. This was most essen-
tial; and he would tell his right rev. friends behind him
that if they meld not have Roman catholic prelates sitting
here, this must be done. (Cheers.) The Roman catholic
priests ought to be paid as stipendiary clergymen ; no diffe-
rent* must be made between them and the protestant
clergyman ; to was • common phrase, they must feed out of
the mine platter. (Laughter.) He would now return
to the vitiation, what had been done for Ireland this
.orlon ? Last session the locumbered Estates Bill
had been saarificed to English interests. (No
no) He maintained that this was the case, but were thi
messier, pored, and found to work very smoothly and ems
cesefully, its °potation would be extremel slow and It
would be • long time before aey beynefit:eel' change
would be produced thereby. If it were meant to allow
English interests to purchase large estates in Ireland, be
anticipated no great benefit from the change. Every one
knew what happened when an estate changed hands; even
in this country, he knew an instance in the north of Eng-
land where a large estate had been sold, and the first con-
sideration of the new proprietor was, how much adJitional
rent he could raise out of the property. He would much rather
see the existing Irish proprietors go on as well as they could,
than oft them replaced by others. If it were said, We have
passed the poor law, what else can we do ? he would answer,
let the poor-law be made to fulfil the object for which it was
passed—to maintain the destitute, and gradually to diminish
pauperism. Had it done so hitherto ? The only remedial mem
sure yet received from the House of Commons after • sitting
of seven months, was the Evicted Tenants Bill, which their
lordships considered on the previous evening. Hs quite
agreed with his noble friend opposite, who said last session
that much might he done for ireland by the employment of
the people, in the construction e railways. but in saying
that, he did not confine himself to railways. He was (or
giving employment to the people in all other national
ob;ects and works which it could come within the pro-
since of • government to undertake. It was no
fair reason to ray that they should be lett to private
enterprise in Ireland, bccaute they wire so in England,
seeing that Englanl was the only country where such was
the case. He would also recommend a large scheme of
emigration as a remedy for tho pre sent deplorable condition
of Ireland. But, whether the government concurred Cr
not in his suggestions, he must spin press upon
them the necresity of doing something to ameliorate
the condition of that country, unless they were prepared to
see in it disorgsnieation of society. Is was because he saw no
hope for ireland in the measures now le.fore parliament, or in
anything that hail been promised. that he had ventured
to bring this subject forward, and to ask the noble marquis
whether eovernmeet had any measures for the permanent
improvement of Ireland in contemplation ? The noble lord
concluded by moving the followine resolutions:
' Thatit Is incumbent upon this house to cameos the approbation
with which it has view, the wisdom, energy, and prudence with
which the eiccutire governmero of fret tad has been tronductedrotrlng
the recent period of Mitt ulty. Titat it Is equally the duty of this
house to camera the deep sorrow with which it routinues to view the
prokmged dieters... of many classes of the Irish people, oral the re-
gret which it feels that the mousures parried in the concluding sea-
sion of the late parliament for the improvement of Ireland have not
hitherto been productive of the benefits wroth were anticipates! from
their cowmen'. To camps the decided opinion of tuftshouse, that
further legislative measures are required for remedy of the evils under
which Ireland labours, for the development of its natural resources,
and foe the improvenient of its agriculture and commerce.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE felt it his duty to oppose
the motion, though in doing so he was fully alive to the
difficulty of hie position, in having to object (on the ground
of inconvecient precedent) to a testimony in favour of his
noble friend the Lott Lieutenant of Irelantl, which the con
duct of that noble blend, during very trying and diffieult
times, entitled him to. (Hear) Itis noble friend (Earl
Fitzwilliam) complained that the late measures passed for the
improvement of Ireland had not been productive M the bene-
fits expected. The first of those measures to is h'eh he would
allude was that by which, too certain e :cone order and
peace had been elitablishel It would not be denied that the
greatest hope for Inland depended on the individual industry
and the enterprise of her pet pi- . • and enterprise and industry
were always more successful when pr weeding front spon-
taneous feelings of the people. than when fostered
and maintained by artificial means, and by the
interference of the legislature. It would be obvious then
that the best coulee for the government or for parliament to
take was to place the peer and iedustrious people of Ireland
in that position of security and Feel in which the fruits of
their industry might be assured to them, and to secure the
proprietor in the possession of his propene. In this respect
he wash and to contend that the 113,!NAUTC of which he had
spoken as administered by his noble friend the Lord-Lieute-
nant of Ireland had been most decidedly successful. lie
could refer to official statements showing the improved coto
ditioo of Ireland in the great diminution of crime since that
measure bed come into op, ration ; and not mere'f„of Ireland
[ generally bat of those districts in porticular in which
crime had previously prevailed to the great, st extent, as
in the enutties of Clore, Limerick, Galway, and Tipperary,
but where now cemperatire security reigned. This
im-
provement was evidenced not only in the decrease of prose-
cutions, hut in the altered habits of the people, and the
h tier cultivation el the land. (Hear.) The number of
outrages for the whole of Ireland had diminished from 2,1G2
in December last year to 1 IS2 in the last month of the
present year—a diminution of about orie half; and in the
higher class of eutraaes he was happy to a ty the falling off
was in • sail greater proportion. (Hear, hear.) So far,
then, ea giving security to industry and property, and
the resole of such security, the mea-uri s of the govere-
ment hai set br n wholly unproductive of good.
Again, when his ruble fri end said that nothing had been
done to improve the condition of Ireland, he forgot the ed.
vaistage which had already resulted from the exertions of
those persons who had been employed in going round the
country lecturiog on the science of agriculture. The teach-
ing of those persons had been most successful, and in many
instances, even in the aeon space of time that had elapsed
since the commencement of their labours, a marked improve-
ment in the cultivatio s of the land had taken place. Such
were the improvements to which he looked forward for per-
foment benefit to ,he country—the more so, ate 'hey rested
on individual eeertion end were not forced by parliamentary
interference. Hi. noble friend had s .oken of the small sum
issued under the land improvement act. Why, the amount
of advances which hod been sanctioned under that oat (de-
ducting the application which had been withdrawn) was no less
than 1,388,0001. There was very inclination to make the
advances us fast as possible, end from what hail been already
done under that net On best to sults in the employment of
the people and the improvement of the land had followed.
He looked forward to great benefit resultin to Ireland from
the bill for facilitating the sale of encumbered estates, which
he had ever) hope would pass the other house before the
close of the ties-inn, as a means of introducing British capital
in the improvement of estates which were now, fur want of
capital, ureultivnted. With regard to the poor-law—though
he had never looked upon it as a panacea for all the evils
of Ireland, r.or hail it ever been put forward
as emit by those who proposed it—he must say,
after the experience they hod had of it. winking, not-
withstanding the abuse, end inequality which had
attended its operation, that he knew of no other means by
which the great object could have been accomplished, of
saving to a great extent (though unhappily not entirely) a
large portion of the population from positive destruction.
(It, ar, hear.) Ile admitted the great benefit that had re-
sulted from the efforts of the British association and the
relief committee', hut these had only followed in the wake
of the poor-law ; and but for the system which that law had
established, the exertions of those institutions would have
been to a great extent unsuccessful. The fishing stations
which bad been established and were in course of formation
also promisee to he of great service in giving profitable and
permanent employment to the people. Looking then
at all tint had been done, he contended that there
was every disposition, not only on the part of
the government but of both houses of parliament, to con-
sider the wants of Ireland, and to do all that was possible fur
the relief of that country. With regard to forth r advances
from the consolidated fund for relief works, to advances for
emigration, or in aid of railways, it was the tendency of
every people, and of the Irish perhaps more especially, to
neglect to do that for themselves which they thought govern-
ment would do for them. lie was, therefore, disposed, as a
steneral rule, rather to leave such matters to indiv dual
exertion than to mike them depend on government inter-
ference. As ti the Irish church, he admitted fully the im-
poitance of that subject, and his opinion upon it remained
unchanged ; but he was not prepared, on the part of the
government, to say that any measure was in contemplation.
The noble marquis concluded by moving the previous
question.
The Earl of GLENGALL wes surprised that during
nearly four h tars' diacussion on the state of Ireland, not one
syllable had been said with regard to the main point—which
was the system of agitation now going on in that country.
It woe absurd to suppose that the country could improve or'
prosper while a system of agitation was allowed to exist
which was far beyenel any agitation which had taken
place during O'Connell's time.
The LOUD CHANCELLOR then read the resolution',
and put the previous question, which was agreed to without
a division.
Their lordships adjourned at a quarter past 10 o'clock.

HOUSE ')F COMMONS.-FRIDAY, JUNE 23.
The fireaxita took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
REPORT CONSIDERED.—HamIyn's Estate Bill.
THIRD READlNOS.—Aberavon Market; Caledonian Railway
(branch avow Clyde and Glasgow station); Edinburgh and Bathgate
Railway (eatimaiun and deviation); Truro Turnpike Koala; White-
haven and Furors. Junction Railway (extension or deviation line
from Silecroft to loxfield. Sec.) ;
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PETITIONS.—In favour of an extensive principle of par-
liamentary reform, by Ur IL DAVIE, from lladdington ; Mr.
THORNELY, from Minton; Mr. LUSIIINGTON, from Kensal-
green and phices in London; Mr. HENRY, from place. in Loom.
shire; Capt. PECIIELL, from Brighton; Sir W. MOLE WORTH,
from purls of London and Manchester ; toed RENDLESHAM, from
a place in Suffolk; Col. THOMPSON, 50 petitions from Manchester
and its neighbourhood Mr. 0. BEIHLELEY, front Westbury on
Senyn,Chippine Sudbury, East Dean, towiship•of East Dean, Mosley
and Cm, all in the county of Glouerster, and four from Bristol ;
Dr. BOWRING (1031, 50 from Manchester, 46 from Bolton, I from
Glasgow, 3 from Clayton-bridge, 1 from Stockport, I from Ludo;
and 1 from Mutual Inntruction Society of Smithfield; Sir E. N.
BUXTON, from Southminmer and other places is Ream ; Mr. HUME,
from Middlesborough, Yorkshire., 592 signatures; New Shildon, Dur-
ham, 273; Montrose, 420; London (44),'741; East Derebara, 109; Glu-
pw, 16; Caraballon, 31; Matlock, Derby, In ; Linton, 132 ; Don-
nin Salop,Stockton, ; Belth, APW7II. 21 IlOrriusy
Dnrlay, ; Deptford (2), 13 ; Bermondsey, 10 ; Camberwell,
17 ; Skatrlgg, near Glasgow, 108 ; Islington, signed by householders
only, 100;. chairman of meeting at Wallingford, 1; chairman of
meeting atLiverpool, I ; chairman of meeting at Uxbridge, 1 • Bra.
port, 4 ; Herne Bay, 57 ; Putney, Lincoln, 65 ; Madeley 'Wood,
&dap, 73 ; Long Sutton Lincoln,; Bulks, Warwick, SO ; Dun-
stable (2), 21 ; Todingion, Bedfordshire, 11 ; Houghton Regis,
Bedfordshire, IS ; Fggington, 1l ilfordrliirr' IA; Wickliffe, Bed-
fordahire (1), 27 ; Bristol, I. Sir 0. STRICKLAND, from
Proton; Sir B. HALL (3), from Marylebene Mr. HAYWOOD,
from a place in Lancashire ; Lord D. STUART, from Miry.
1, bone; Mr. WOOD, from Sid 11114; Mr. P. MILES, from
Cris ~1 ; 3lr. BERNAL, Loin Uetheder ; Mr. COBDEN, !ruin
a s'..me L liodall.:01. ei.ll 2,21: a!,irnataits, lad Wee goo