The Express.
London, England, 1851-03-08 00:00:00

Mr. HAWES said the preliminary sad &sal report of the
eommimioners he had in h 4 hand. The evidence was ex-
tremely bulky, and it had been transmitted to the Horse
Guards, who had full orders to transmit it to Ceylon, for
the purpose of conducting the trials there. The evidence
was so transmitted, and no copy of it had been retained. A
copye was made ou
his trial. t for Cbaoptiti.kininlabtrrn,fobur tihne,,,litrae to
Heinle) would have the report of the commissioners shortly
in his hands. (Hear.)
Mr. }MILLIE asked whether the hoe. gentleman would
state when the evidence was sent back to Ceylon ?
Mr. HAWES could hardly answer the question, but it
had been sent out some time ago--some time in the autumn,
Y welk as he could recollect. The dates and facts would be

EMitdlitie papers.
COUNTY VOTERS BILL.
Mr. L. KING, amid loud cheers, brought in his County
Voters Bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be
read a second time on the 2nd of April.

MINISTERIAL PLANS.
Lord J. RUSSELL—Sir, in moving that this house at
its rising do adjourn to Monday. next, I will state the course
of proceeding we propose to adopt on the part of the go-
vernment. (Hear, hear.) My right hon. friend the Secre-
tary for the Home Department (Sir George Grey)
will state, when the order of the day is read
for the second reading of the Ecclesiastical Titles
Bill, the alterations and modifications which we propose to
make in that bill. As they are, certainly, extensive altera-
tions, and as I was asked the last time we met in this house,
I that, after the statement was made, we should postpone the
Isecond reading of the bill, I have to state that, altar
taken that suggestion iuto consideration, we ptepteelevi2
Ijourn the order of the day for its second reading until Fri.
day next. (Cheers.) With respect to the general state of
business, I should my that, having had a considerable in-
tend without any public business being done in this house,
it is desirable we should proceed as soon as possible
with the estimates for the year ; and we propose that as
Monday next the house in committee should consider the
I navy estimates. We propose, 111 I have ,mid, to postpone
the second reading of the Eixlesiastical Titles Bill until
Friday. I trust there will be no opposition, on the part
of those who are against that bill, to going into committee I
on an early day after the bill is read • second time, sup-,
posing it to be so read. (Hear.) It is necessary likewise
Ito take some steps with regard to the army 111111 ordnance
estimates, especially with regard to the number of men for
the army, in order to proceed with the Mutiny
Bill, which expires on the 26th of April, about which
time the Easter holidays intervene. We do not propene
to take any vote on the income tea until Monday, the 24th
of the present month, and on Friday, the 2lst inst., the
Chancellor of the Exchequer will state any modificatiocui or
alterations he has to propose with regard to the financial
measures fur the year. (Hear, hear.) Ido not think it
necessary to state more at present with reference to the
'business before the house, except to repeat that my right
hon. friend the Hume Secretary will state the alterations ,
we propose to make in the Ectlesiastind Titles Bill. '
(Hear, hear.)
It was then agreed that the house at its rising should ad-
journ to Monday.
ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES ASSUMPTION BILL
Upon the order of the day being read for the mod
reading of this bill, numerous petitions against, and seta
for, were presented by various hon. members. Two althea
were read at length by the clerk at the table, namely,
petition presented by 3lr. J. &sumer, from the bishops of
the protestant episcopal church of Scotland in favour of the,
bill ; and one presented by Mr. Rae Notos, from 6,000 of
the parishioners of St. Mat, St. George's, and St. Tho- !
121101's in the City of Lublin, against it. Mr. M'CI:LLAOII
I\6o presented petitions from the parish of Tullylish, in thei
county of Down ; alai/heron, in the county of Monaghan ; !
Tullya len, in the county of Louth; and Balrothery and
Balscadden, in the county of Dublin ; against the enact-
ment of any measure of religious disabilities..
Sir 0. GREY then ruse and said—ln pursuance of the
intimation made by his noble friend (Lord John Russell) he
had now to state to the house the modifications and alters-
lions in the Ecclesiastical Titles Assumption Bill, which,
spun full consideration of all the facts and circumstances,
the government would have to propose in the event of the
hose consenting to the second reading of that measure.
la the lint place he would take notice of some suggestions
which had b•ell very strongly urged upou the government, I
from various quarters, in refertnetto thecuurre which it was
expedient to adopt asregarded this bill. On Monday night it
had been strongly urged on the government, and chiedy by
the right hon. member fur Manchester (Mr. M.
that the bed course to take in this matter, with a view
to the despatch of public business and to the avoidance of
protracted debates, would be that course which, in another
place, had been suggested by Lord Stanley as that which he
would have pumued had he been at the head of the govern-
ment. That suggestion ;it was represented, was to this
effect : that the government should refer to committees of
both houses of parliament a variety of questions connected
with the relations which the Roman catholic subjects of the
crown hors, on the one hand, to the state, and on the other,
to the head of their own church. Now this suggestion was
founded on a belief that the further discussion of
this question could he indefinitely postponed and that the
house would, in this way, be enabled to proceed at
mice to the consideration of other subjects, to which it was
indispensable that parliament should without any unneces-
sary delay proceed. It, however, did seem to him (Sir 0.
Grey) that the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Milner Gibson)
and others who had agreed with that right hon. gentleman,
had completely overlooked one important part of the re-
cutoraendationmade by Lord Stanley. The noble lord had not
simply suggested the appointment uf a committee; he had,
M the B.lloe time, advised that resolutions should lie passed
donoltonoutuly by. both houses of parliament express
dee of the opinion of parliament as to the course
meently:taken by the court of Rome, which the noble lord,
common with others, had staid was offensive, derogatory
to the dignity of the crown and entrenching upon the liber-
ties and independence of the country. (Hear, hear )
Therefore, if the noble lord had mu:garbles& the appointment
of committees, he haul at the same time suggested what
would unavoidably deal to discussion and to debate. If,
however, the advice offend by the right hon. gentleman
(Mr. M. Gibson) were alone taken, they would not the less
run the risk of debates as lung and as discursive as the de-
bates ni eesaarily following upon a perseverance in the
bill which was now before the house. Certainly in
his (Sir George Grey's) parliamentary experience
he did not remember resolutions being passed by both
holies of parliament except with a view to immediate
legislation. (hear, hear.) It must be apparent that, in
the, ease, such • resolution, agreed on by both houses of
parliament, could not have the force of law, and that, as
regarded the rights assumed by certain Roman catholic
prelates, such resolutions would be of no effect whatever.
Sach revolutions would, however, involve considerable
discussion, and, obviously also, they would never-
theless be mere waste paper, either as respected
a declaration or an alteration of the existing law.
For, notwithstanding such resolutions, and despite of them,
the titles assumed by Roman catholic prelates would be
borne as openly, and us undimuiseilly, as at this moment.
(Ilse, hear.) And the right hon. gentleman (Mr. M.
) must be aware that the question of the appoint-
'sent of a committee to go into this subject could not be
brought forward without involving discussions of a nature
which, fur every reason, it was most desirably to avoid.
Instead of ;inching, he feared such discussions would
increase and protract religious animosities, and that
upon the appedutment of such a committee as
was recommended, an undefined expectation would
be kept up of eventual comprehensive
It was his (Sir 0. Grey's) opinion that it was far more de-
sirable to proceed at MCC in the attempt to satisfy the pro-
testant feeling of the people of England, while at the same
time, retaining inviolate the principles of religious liberty,
and leaving undisturbed the rights of our Roman catholic
fellow-subjects. lie would, however, at the outset confess,
that in his view lie del nut think the state of the law in
regard to the Roman catholic subjects of the crown
was in a satisfactory state, and that their position in re-
spect to the crown and in respect to their own
church, was one well worthy of the examination of a par-
liamentary committees (Hear, hear.) Another suggestion
pressed upon the government, proceeding from a different
quarter, and urged upon separate motives, was that Ire.
land should be excluded from the operation of this bill.
It was no doubt true that many hon. gentlemen while
strongly impressed with the cons ictioa that it was neces-
sary to adopt some legislative mcusum for the purpose of
checking the encroachments of the court of Rome, as exhi-
bited on a recent occasion in the spirit which had dictated the
brief and pastoral, to which so much reference was made,
were, at the same time impressed with the idea, and in
these feelings it was difficult not to participate—that, seeing
the position so long occupied by Roman catholic. in Ireland,
nothing should be done which nut merely in reality, but in
appearance, should have the effect of imposing new disa-
bilities. The proposition, in effect, was that Ireland should
be omitted from the operation of this bill. Now, this
subject had been fully considered by the government
long before the meeting of parliament, and it had
been considered since the meeting of parliament;
'but that further consideration had but confirmed them in
the conviction that to take this course would be entirely
inconsistent with their duty. The object of this measure
was to assert the authority of the Queen, an assertion which
was made in consequence of a late aggression, and to have
omitted the ease of Ireland from that measure, would have
been to admit that the authority of the crown in Ireland
was leas paramount than in other portions of the United
Kingdom. (Cheers.) To have taken this course would
have been, for ministers of the' crown, a direct
betrayal of their trust. (.. Hear" and cheers.) But
while he said this, he was at the same time
willing to admit that there was a wide practical difference
in the circumstances of Ireland and the circumstances of
England. It was impossible to overlook the fact, one to
which he had had frequent occasion to advert, not in con-
nexion with this bill, that there did exist in Ireland a
Roman catholic population, consisting of the great majo-
rity of the inhabitant• of that country—that this popula-
tion possessed a church not endowed by the state,
• church which bed existed since the time of
the Reformation in unbroken succession, at one
time prohibited, at another time tolerated, at ano-
ther time protected—a church which possessed bishop., side
iby side with the established church, and that that Roman
catholic church in 'rebind bad been sanctioned and ousel-
I raged in proceedings and practices which had never been
sanctioned en England, fur the simple reason that the cir-
cumstances of the two countries had always been entirely
and essentially different. (Hem.) There Mre he felt, and all
must feel that there was considerable difficulty in legislating
'in this caw. In this country bishops of the Boman catholic
church had existed as vicars apostolic ; they hail been en-
trusted with the most complete ecclesiastical functions, oat