The Express.
London, England, 1851-05-24 00:00:00

UARDT ructi ()AUDEN.

The summer pruning soul thinning of all fruit-hearing I
plants is a vast imprusement upon the common practice I
of allowing them to grow wild until winter. Tile sup,-
riority of the fruit, when this practice is adopted, is very
striking, and an additiornal:advantime consists in the
work being done in half the time that it would require
in winter. 'fie in or nail the leading shouts of pear
trees as they require it, but do not, even for the sake
of neatness, stop all the shoots, lest by so doing the
I natural fruit-spurs for neat SI,SOII are tared into wool-
spun; the former are readily known by their short
thick stunted appearance, and instead of producing a shout,
only produce a bunch of from four to Weill leaves. Young
trees which are being trained into pyramids ur other
shapes, should Ire examined once a fortnight, and the
shoots which are not wanted should be pinched in with the
thumb and finger, by which the growth of others will be
eneouraged. This pox-es. should commits, with the upper
shoots, that the sap may be dirtreted intothe lower branches;
and after an adequate quantity of shoots of sufficient
strength is secured to form the lower part of the tree, the
leading shoots may he allowed to grow and furnish woad for
the top. Stopping for wood is very different from stepping
for the purpose of forming fruit buds; for the latter pur-
pm,. it will be time enough to shorten the shoots a month
hews.. Gooseberries and currants should have their young
wood thinnest out by immediately stopping at least half the
number of shoots to four joints, to allow the air to circulate
more freely in the centre of the bushes ,• and the remainder
of the shoots should he stopped during the summer, accord-
ing PR the shape of the plant requires it. This practice will
almost entirely do away with winter pruning, while the
flavour and size of the fruit will he greatly improved.

FREEHOLD LAND SOCIETY AT MANCHESTER.— -
A demonstration took place at Manchester on :Monday, ou
the occasion of the Manchester and Northern Counties

Freehold Land Society taking possession of their first estate.
The plan of the society is similar to those of Birmingham
and other large towns of the Midland Counties. The mem
hers contribute smell sums monthly, and with the united
pmeerils purchase land wholesale to divide amongst each
other by allotment—each plot to give a 40s. freehold
vote fur the county. This, the first estate of the C0E111117.11. FOIL l'En.fritY AT LEEDS.—It will be
Manchester society, consists of 14 acres of land, on Sale remembered that a fortnight ago we stated that Mr. Wil-
Moor, .5 miles from Manchester, and 4 minutest' walk liant Hodgson, of Bradford, had been remover! to Leeds on
nom the Sale Station of the Manchester and Altrincham a charge of wilful and corrupt perjury, alleged to have been
Railway. The soil is a rich loam, and having been found conunitted by hint !ether the Leeds Bankruptcy Court, on
favourable for market gardening, lets at a stated price. the 24th of April lest, in the matter of Joshua Unwin, a
The society have laid their purchase out in 100 building bankrupt. The information on which the prisoner had
plots, of 500 square-yards each, and have given to it the name been apprelieuded, charged that, on the 2.lth day of April
of Free Town. The estate has been so laid out as to he inter- last, in a deposition made by the prisoner on oath, in the
sected by three streets, and it has the further adventure Leeds Court of Bankruptcy he did wilfully swear that
on two of its sides of abutting on public roads. The public the acceptance of John Armistead and Son, indorsed on a
roads and streets are 12 yards wide, anal the conveyance certain bill of exchange for 250/., was genuine, anal
provides that all buildings shall, in addition to this, he set was in the handwriting of Richard Collet, a clerk
hack four yards from the footpaths—giving to the etniets a of the said John Armisteiul and Son, and that the same
dear width of 20 yards. The streets have been sewered, was written by him in the presenceof the said John Armi-
and levelled, with foot-paths formed on either side, sepa- ! stead. The hill in question was dated the 4th of October,
rated from the cart roads by a border of green turf planted ' 18.50, drawn by Mr. Joshua Cnwin, of Bradford, recently
with young trees, and with these improvements eneourag- a bankrupt, upon Messrs. J. Armistead and Son,.cloth mew-
ing to builders the land has already attained a considerably chants, of Leeds, whose acceptance it purported to bear.
improved value. This fact has been tested by the sale of 'l'he bill 11,34 dated the 4th of last October, and about De-
several of the plots already for building purposes. One 1 comber 17 Mr. Henry Watkinvet, who then held the hill,
member, who had two plots, has sold them for 1201., which I which he had received through the prisoner, learnt that
gives him a clear profit of 501., and several of the holders, , Mr. Unwin, the drawer, had abaconded, and he then in-
without contemplating becoming builders, have let their ; quired of the prisoner about the acceptance upon it, whichd
plots at about W. each, for gardening and other purpose..., ! the latter said was written by Messrs. Armistead and Ivon •
thus being content to acquire the 40s. vote for the county. I clerk. When the bill arrived at maturity it was dinho-
The land is situate in the northern division of Cheshire, I noured, and on inquiry Mr. Watkioson learnt that the
and would give 109 votes for that county if di!, : acceptance was a forgery. The pretence was sub-
trihuted in single allotments, but as some member., sequentiv apprehended on the charge of having ut-
hold two or three plots, the voting strength acquired ' tend this forged acceptance, tried at the last anises
is something less. The members and friends of the Society,' at York, and acquitted. At Cl,.' last examination, copies of
to the number of 100 and upwards, went dawn by railway the prisoner's depositions having been put in, several wit-
totake formal passe inn of the estate, and were ace:crape- names were called to negative the statement of the prisoner.
aced by Mr. i lson, Mr. Woolley, Mr. Mackie, Mr. W. Mr. Armistead stated that he knew nothing of the hill, had
M'Call, Mr. R. Nl'Carthey, Mr. Ilickin, Mr. Wm. Shuttle-, never authorised his clerk to accept it, and that u Mr.
worth, and other well-known members of the late Anti-I Unwin owed his firm a considerahle sum of money, he laud
Corn Law League, and all appeared highly pleased with the !no reason for accepting such bill. He also said. the accept-
judicious selection made h the committee of the property ance was not in the handwriting of Collet. Mr. Richard
and with the manner in which it had been treated for ire- I Collet, bookkeeper to Messrs. Armistead, said the accepts
prevenient by the surveyor and other parties connected ante of the hill was not in his handwriting, nor did he
with the society. In the evening, the party, after their know anything of it. Mr. Thomas Hawkeaworth and se-
excursion, re-assembled in the large room of the Exchange, vent other witnesses swore that the acceptance was not in
where their number was increased to upwards of 300 per- Collet's handwriting. On Wednesday, punuan, to adjourn-
sons of both sexes, when Mr. Bright addreined the meet- I ment, Hodgson was placed before the Leeds justices for
ing in explanation of the value and importance of Freehold final examination on the charge. No fresh evidence was
I Land Societies, and the beneficial influence they are Wen- offered, and the prisoner was conunitted for trial at the next
lated to secure to the working classes. imirmik—Bradford Otmerrer.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. !

lima they spoke the prisoners,and,whilst sympathising with
them in their sufferings, pointed out the certainty of their
being exposed to guater temptations on board the convict
ship, or In tae foreign country to which they might be
transported; and at the same time recommended them, by
prayer and reforatatioa, to endeavour to attain their pre-
sioas character aad position. It was undoubtedly their
duty to ponisli as well as to reform ; but they were bound
to take care, when men were sent to their prisons, they
should not leave these prisons worse than when they en-
tered. (Hear, bear.) Separate confinement without labour
was a much 12,ari.1 punishment than separate confinement
with labour; and be had been frequently solicited by those
who had been removed from the latter to the
former state to have them sent back again to the confine-
went
with labour. But, viewing all things by the light of
the experience which he had had of that prison, he should 1
say that, whiist he considered IS months' confinement too
much, he should also admit that nine months were hardly
sufficient. (Hear.)
The Earl of CHICHESTER (who, for the greater part,
was inaudible in the galler)) was understood to ssy that
confinement for a longer period than nine months was both
dangerous and inexpedient.
Earl GREY explained. The intention was, to make
every convict sentenced to transportation go through an or-
deal of 12 months' imprisonment.
The subject seas then suffered to drop.
PAPAL AGGRESSION.
The Earl of HARDWICKE presented several petitions,
from various parishes in Cambridge, against the papal ag-
gression.
REGISTRATION OF INSURANCES.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—FILIDAT, MAY 23.
Ile Lone tooß
PETITIONS P Ca.sventrant kESENTED. his seat at five o'clock.
Parts. Aonnitasiog.—By the Duke of RICHMOND.
from a greet many plans, against papal aggregate°.
testament srio • or AmyitAScrai BILL.-117 the LORD
CHANCKLIAIt, from attorneys, ',plait this bin. The:
noble awl ',anted lord intimated his dissatisfaction with
some of the clause. of the bill.
Lori CAMPUSLL felt the deepest disappointment at,
anthem he was likely to meet with opposition ha a quarter
where he expected to have had assistance.
Lu.ll YEVEItsHAM said the noble and learned lord
was vrroag iu as he had done. that the bill was
as generally approved of by their lordship*. The appeals ;
tom to thee Sid did net alone proceed from attorneys. He, '
fur one, meld not give the measure his support.
hod IILACMONT thought the totar.44: taken by the
uoble and learned lord on the woolsack we. scarcely u fair
one. The bill had emanated from a commission appointed
b. her Majes• three y.ears ago to consider the eubject.
1 he noble any d learned lord had sat on the ...sleet committee
id th-re only objected to the clauses about plans and
L:apg, which (lion was removed by the adoption of hit
,girestiuns. The noble and learned lord did not object to
,y other part of the bill, which lie ought to have done, if
I. • then entert otr.erl other objections to it. It was evident
from the oleotvations of the noble lord opposite (Lord
I evershaive, and the petitions which had been pre,..r.ted
I om attorn, s . against the bill that they did not understand
es merits.
Th. LORD CHANCELLOR vindicated himself against
ch-orite of having acted unfairly. lie attended the
Staitteo on the sicsmil day of its Pitting. and stated that
be was roufident the plan of registration by map. was
utterly impracti: able; hut he hut not been a 114.4 to attend
argliut443l). If a plan could he devised to; registration
e bids %nein elf rt the object proposed he would give it hie
st support. It was easy to pmpose I, gal reforms, but if
Lolls were to he brought in imperfectly framed the author.
• 1 them etrild n.lt es net they would receive support. I hi.,
LAI he thoo.;lit would mystify titles and increase expensi
unless it efee t-el its object, when, he granted, it would be a
good and u • -fie measure.
Alter a few words from Lord Beat-ono,.
Lord t:RAN %VOICED expn—cel his approbation of the
b3l, and eonsliated some of the objectionsof the Lord Chan•
senor to it

Lord CA .lI'BELL moved that tho committee on this
bill stand adjourned to Friday neat.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—Fiumy, MAT 23.
The SYILACIR took the chair et 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Lords amendments to the Shrewbbury and Bridg-
north Turnpike Itnad, Bill were agreed tn.
The following bi•ts were read a third time and passed :
Bir -*ant Imr Turupike Roads,

iinningi. iprovement, Malmesbury 1..
Warrington and Altrineham Junction Railway, Waventy
Valley Railway.
TM following bilk were considered :—Deo Standard
Restoration. Great Central Gas Consumers' Company.
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
ECCLEiLMICAL TITLLI AASEIIPTIoN Biet.—By Sir
T. VBRIEN and Mr. OTLAHERTY, from Galway -
Mr. J. O'BRIEN, from Limerick; Mr. GRACE, (6),
from Roscommon; Mr. CORILtLLY, from Meath and KU-,
Lanny; Mr. F. FRENCH. from Roscommon; Sir P.
NUGENT, several from Westmeath; Mr. REYNOLDS,
from Dublin, Cavan, Wicklow, Tyrone, Kilkenny, Donegal.
Wesford,:lcrinanagh, Monaghan, Down Queen s County,
and Clare; Mr. SCULLY. from several places in Tim-
rary ; Mr. M. !SULLIVAN, from Kilkenny ; Mr. KEOGH,
from Westmeath, Roscommon, King's County, and Galway.
Mr. MON'ELL, from Limerick ' • Mr. M. J. O'CON .
NELL, from Kerry ; Dr. POWER, three from the rotary
of Cork; Mr. M. BLAKE, from Galway; Mr. J. GREE.•ii,
several from Kilkenny; Mr. MOORE, from Down, Tyrcem
Roscommon, and Donegal; Mr. GRATTAN, from Kildare ,
and Monaghan; against the bill.
Retionics Hoesea BILL.—By the Earl of ARUNDEL,
from Ireland, against the bill.
Ititolen Disuse—By Mr. C. LVSIIINOTON, from
Laneashire; Mr. BRIGHT, from Lancashire; Mr. Alder-
man KERSHAW, from Lancashire ; against th- hill.
RaLtotors HovsEi DILL—By Mr. BL.tKE, from Gal-
way ; and Mr. J. O'CONNELL, from Kerry ; against
the bill.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
On the m Kinn of Mr. C. Lewis. it was agreed that the
house should at its rising adjourn till Monday.
1 TILE C.tl'E OF GOOD HOPE.
i Mr. ADDEB.LEY wished to ask the Under Secretary of
State fur the Colonies whether the last paragraph in the
appendix to the Blue-balk just presented upon the forma-
tion of the Oraiot River sovereignty was all of the official
i orrisponelence upon the suspended formation of the Cape
constitution w:iish it was intended to lay before the house ;
also, if the house would be informed of the extent to which
lac Governor of tke Pape was now borrowing front the
English treasury on the credit of the revenue which he
might lie able to raise if he could get a legislative counal to
. acts., under him.

GUANO IN AUSTRALIA.
Earl GREY stated, in reply to the Duke of Itichmend,
that a ilsososit of guano bad been dist-4111'nd on the ems: of
Western 'A ii• [radio, and that am. sport duty of 2/.los. per ton
h boon laid on it by the local 4overniment. The noble
also stated that be thought the duty tan high, and that
I.' bad .eat a despatch to t►e (lmsornor of South Australis
tit siring him to nature the duty t.l If. a ton.
PENTON VILLE I'll I SON.

The Itishop ,(UIVOILD said he wi.hed to put t quee-
n,* to the nolo:e earl (Gni) on the nel.n. et of the altera-
tions whiele had taken place in the management of Pennon-
Tale maim, TL .t primn was tint totabli.h..l as an exp.-
trent, owl the prmeiple which was laid down for the
4. martins of the 441414111144 was this-that the persons
wbo were to be e, ontimal in Pentonville ghoul.' nut Ire
who were iecluransl in critic. There was to he a
careful veleerion of criminate, and they were to continue: in
the per's, for 40101 t • AO an to give the experiment a fair
teal. Molter. were or conducted for four or lire year+, and
there was ai mewl, overage niece.. a. could he expected in
the tins. Non doubt thete was eongiderable capes*
it. carrying oat the experian. nt ; but the nation
lid ant go u.l4e that expo neliturr, b canoe it felt
that it wa. it. bounden duty to perfect that
great system The question was how far it wa. poe.ible Lo
worbisie ti, tae separate elem. sit. of puni.hing the eon-
. letel and 441'041414W theta- WIO tbcr tire 011 • was not likely
1., defeat. Ile• other, by leaving the toned- unpuni.h. el or I
unreformed. The number ref ea 1. in I'. Imoisille was 1114
eery great, 114104 ooe:y suo, ah• fa 44 for 1404411311014 had
2:100 for li., it convict pophlatiun. The report which
was laid 011 01: tohle lan year remarked thot conaiderahle
alteration. had I Men place in the management of Penton-
% rile rim.. and that the rule awl restriction ddel down by
air J. Woken a- 4:4 the number of tints that persona aces
.114444141, 141111 tire ate or the erinnu els, 14-44 111.4144ird.
Nosy of item aim were • nt 14 Pentatonic had leen in
prwn te.• tense., :4414114 /144 limes, 444111.1 tines, ;nod wine
vs n noteen and twenty •. In the next joker, crirninate
WllO 111111 0 wee preen ..1y tran ported to tail Ihemen.4 Land
no the a net time...l'ow worn erviet adiniowdration of th-,t
. moony, red a 100, after their noun to dn. tountry, had sub-
, tied then...dot • 1./ punishment by loreakieig the law, were
at 10 l'slotooll In ..Giother a:tenant was ILA wherea. the
entuinal, lie itiforioon“l foe 12 or month., in
order to test the ardor fairly. M. v were not kept fur ,
liloft item In a • which ea raid afford no heir crimple
.9 what the .sees,, tooth! to (of theta. A third paint to
which be ol t.. tall attention •.es the place el oleo
ti•oation, to a hoo le thew po. roma a, sent alter they left
the primes. 'lle. oloj. et of the Pt utronville 41441114 444 to
give the pursuer-, after their term tot probationary
punishment capon 01, a fair start either he re or in the tutu- ,
nos; het Gm ~cyst lead 144 it let of. There were
us veld to the York to Poorti..wl 1/4144011. and 101)'
Itentowls or the., who, pas, el through the peiwn, -le ow-
rug an entire thong, of .y.tein. ru.r.:y it was not carry ins
rat the intent a ith winkle I', i.t..niilly 14144.0 W 44
4 :44141414 01.4 4104441 tint had unelergoone its reforroworry
to-..joins shool.l he expooal to new centrals:ohm itJ
...we of th.• 1.114•1•4 he had 14444411 i What be wished'
ins know wen wledlier the xpe.dment was I/ b:
algeneloned, or curled out iii it. integrity - whether
the prima era. to he ahem:owe! an experiment,
ant wow to la. ft 44141041 a. a COMMIS p 44041141.• ?
'I hers woo :mother alteration from the 06044 /711!4.411 be'
a Weft 1444141-04 Were al Ply 44 Wide r the
part of their proloationary puiii.leineut by wo it rth.
gang. in Portland, Lterniuda..or eleenhere. 'ow, thd.,
woo an entire departure (non the original meets, which
must be fetal to it, for it was the very opposite .
at the n •In trate ryfurntatory diecipline. If they j
ware esnidooyeel on public work., rationed to the,
por'dic eat • as a part of their poomlow eit, they wont feel it
t • be n negradotoom, and if a .1, gr ordetlon. it motet don • ...I.
their srtt re•peet which it was the eheeet of the diwipline
in Pentonville ineukate rpm. them. lie wan itoloe..l to
Ming this wohj forwanl at the instance of two profes-
sional met of high atanding, alto lee :e :amongst the t.r.t
orisimiassers of Prestonville Prison. :aid who mid that the
arverrent wa. practkally abenden, d Ly ;he isherotheis
which had been introduced, and width he Led rated to the
le. re (1 1 ear, hear.)
11.:Y 0000 l it wag true that I`. Won ville -prison was now
ea mitred on a did Tent firming than a hen it was eennller..l
on the light of an reperitnent. As ',tat .14 it waseusnoidered
m the light of an taperer on. with a kw .1 anent:doting
whether the ey.tem or upstate 14111171111114114 401:4414 to lon
grael.4ll, 1010114.41 or not, it wa. vette ?aria that a particular
et on of eriniimel brould be whaled I. a the parpern of ear-
n sot that colleen...let ; hat nlm re it ceased to be an ex-
perisinit, when it eras to 1.. made to work in connexion
a,ththeSew.ratluri.pruel.nc, utth, lountry, it was hint to
I.• regarded se • place fora kw se hit erinunals, lout as •
place for criminals gem r.oll v. ((He ar.) it had sow cea•sal
ro Man experiment, and diet% fort it was MR to be carried'
mot with a .i. 44 40 a few select sad withal .peclasewoof their'
. Irina' population. It wan now the policy of her Moje.ty'.
government - a policy *Melt he tight fitly say, j Other
her the debate. in parliament, met with the approlutien
of parliament -that. a. far a. posible, .en ry em4444:41 an-
fenced to transportation should pas. period. more or
1. °. Orettelltillt to cirennedanecs. in ..'pirate confinement
Is ludo hr mukne eat that ',maiden.. Tit. It wa true that
p. rams returned from tronnoort it:on anal wen• eon-
ve ted again ; that old lama we re. ..-nt t ntrville, but he
wan observe that this no. 4.0.44 of oriminal. ahem it
s .. most dmirable to subj.-et to wparate imprisonment.
.oh with a view of pn•eenting rent troon ....ntaminatin,r
to • moods of other., and of torturing in their own rude
tho wed ealutary ..sien. ar. hear.)) There was
iso part of the punishment -a much .Iremleel as that of
miitary confinement It wag a punishment ao awfully se-
a re that nor It. unxii sod 1),. Ft rgumn. the medical
roinningeono re, reported that it .33 not .mfr to subject
• -.vies to it for a lengthened period without looking after
t I in. They hid an instance of its Ai, ts in the C3.l` .1,
'ewe men who were subjected to it for 20 months, and ado
ore completely broken down in ho.elth and spirit.. It
es not the intention either of the ce.scrnment or of par.;
losinent to carry the eystetn to an , %tent that would lead to
•soll congruences. ((year, In or.' When men went
sr :tough this punishment it wa. uo that, fur the ...-
To as elms of offences, the re shouhl be northing mom.
at • Plan wa. sentence .I to tr.'s...perdition for wan-
ughter, that differed from eo.ly in some int.'
p. eruptible degree ;it would non dots a t •him at liberty
...I send him to a colony wh, re he would he
chic to earn higher wages than he could obtain at home
some therefor.. were sent to the hulk.. and 'ore were sent I
h. Portland and other edabli.hnto ut.. They were thus,
10 lee(' in a situation n• then. ass. •oine stimulus given
•'. hope from punning weal roodu. t. , orbited with an
s; •orehenser of brig sent hack to oolitary contluenwnt it
tl y miaresiducted themselves. Ile ielmitteel that the ay-
o no of floating promo. was a bad one. and that r long as
they ratitucal it would never be pet felt. (Ileru.) -But
they could only get rid of that sync= gradually, and his
roalit hon. friend at the head of the llono. I). pertinent was
n's king er ny exertion for that purpose. A .nin of 30,00 M
sag employed with a view of maktug impnovementa in the
• menet establiihneents at I libraltar and Bermuda, and he
hoped that before many year. they be able to do away
with the floating establislnuents. The key-stone of the
s% gem at Portland, Gibraltar, and 11. Tmuda. was the fear
'wing sent buck to separate puni.hrucut. (Hear. hear)
'I he experiment of Pentonville had answered all the pun-
pos.. for which it was established. Aud so far were they
tr .01 'Muntenia ; that establishment• that the variation now
made was adopted for the purpose of earring out the plan-
toot OS es experiment, but us a system tote made applicable
to the general cowriea of the country. ,11...er.)
the Iluke of ItICIISIOND saU he had spent many
Is ones, during the peers he was a rommiesioner, of each day !
rot the week en the Pentonrille l'risen, and inquired dih-
gently into the condition of its inmate., together with their ,
. rime* and their position. in life previous to their departure
out the pith of honesty ; and after that expertise*, he
os prepared to ray that he considered the period of 13
trourr' probation, wider the old system. too much. thr-
ee. r. he was net prepared to my whether the new system
orked better or worse. This be 1110144 ray that• when he
aoe In the habit of visiting Pentoneille Pei-on, he found it
ro..e sorry to recommend that the priientn should work in
association. He, in coon( :ion with the other courfesjonees,
frequently had the prisoners brought into the yard in manes
rind seventies, and bad their masks removtd, on which or

_Lord J. RUSSEL'. said if the hon. gentleman had
looked at the votes k: would have seen that there were two
sets of viper., one relating to the Orange ltiver sovereignty,
the other to the Cape constitutiou. lle had evidently ail-
vetted only to one. One of these sets of papers had 'win
delivered ; the other, which being more voluminous took a
long. r time to prepare, would ho delivered in a day or two.
Ile did not very well understand what the hon. gentleman
mean! by his last liut,tion. Sir Ilarry Smith was, as the
house well knew, endeavouring to protect British subjects
is Katfrari I from such murderous attacks as bad over-
whelmed many of the colonists. lle was now fully em-
ployed in that duty, and he (Lord J. Russell) thought thai.
Wo ho-toe could not desire to embarrass hint when he was
endeavouring to protect British subjects.
Mr. ADM:I:LEY said he wished to know whether or
not the money paid for civil salaries and fur current co-
pens, beyond what the governor could himself obtain %.,t
to be puid out of the English treasury, or whether Sir
Harry Smith had the power of borrowing in the absence of
a vote of that house ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said he would snake inquiries on the
subject. lie was not aware of any sums having been bor.
rowed.
EPISCOPAL REVENI.ES.—ItIETROPOLITAN
WATER SUPPLY.

dampl to Sir B. !LILL,
V Sir V. GREY said the schedule on which the Metro-
politan Water Bill was founded would he presented saw
days before the second reading. The return relating to the
revenues of the bishops hail been resented that day.
BUSINESS OF TB F. HOUSE.
Mr. BRIGHT said he had noticed that on that day a
numb% rof the government had at ten minutes past four
o'clock moved the adjournment of the house to Monday
next. Now that was a motion which was usually made after
the private business. end often served as an opportunity for
questions and short discussions, sometimes extremely valu-
able. Ile wished to barn from the chair whether the usual
practice watk ii.
lats.e than si tiiitm,aotrikim whichcon been practised on
consistent with the rnitsoftlitt;
evening.
The SPEAKER said that there was no rule fixing a
particular time fir the motion. Neither did he think it
would be very r, :tuba practice for members to ask ques-
tions Gordis purpose of getting up discussions on subjects
nut on the paper. There would be no use in gising order,
of the day pr.esilenee over notices of motions, if the bust-
nes. of the goseninunt were to be delayed by mere UN&
akal questions gut up for the purpose of raising discussions.
j Mr. persisted in thinking that in the absence a
a positive regulation the ordinary practice should be taken as
a rule. He hoped that the practice of which he had coat-
pLaitst.4l would not betome a rule.
31INISTER5 MONEY IN IRELAND.
Mr. REYNOLDS gave notice that on an early day
he wouM move for the production of the evidence taken
',fore the .epee: committee, with a view to moving for leave
to bring in a bill on this subject.
.j
ROCHESTER GRAMMAR SCHOOL.
Mr. mow Art asked a question respecting tho
respondence which had taken place between the dean smi
chapter of Rosin-ter Cathedral and the ecclesiastical 001110
miss,on, relating to the Rochester Grammar School.
Sir G. GREY said that he had asked the hon. member to
postpone Ins motion on the subject, in order that inquiries
might be made at the evelesi.utieal commission. Such in-
thuiries had been made, and he (Sir G. Grey) was informed
at there was no correspondence in existence, excepting
unreisersed statements made by the dean and chapter re-
spotting certain charges brought against them be Mr. Vt"his-
ton. These cammumeations had been simply acknowledged,
and 111correspondeace had arisen. Ile was of opinion that
legal procetslings being pending, it would hardly be right to
produce documents of such a nature.
Mr. MOW ATI said that that objection was now at an
end, as the I. gal proceedings had terminated.
Sir G. GREY was nut aware of that fact.
Mr. MOW.tTT then - J. notice that oo

been pirated from the hon. and learned member for Mid-
karst. The answer of the noble lord was that it was •
smatter of notoriety, and had appeared in all the newspapers.
Did the noble lord mean to say that they were to legislate
at newspaper information ? (Hear, hear.) Why it wee only
the other day that he (Mr. Duncombe) had read a letter in
the Times purporting to be from M. Manini, as head of
the central democratic committee in London, and there was,
moreover, an article in the Times commenting severely
on the letter. Now, suppose the noble lord had brought
in • =mare for the expulsion of M. Martini
founded on that letter, and any one asked him
what was the pretence ? The noble lord's answer must be
that he had read the letter in a newspaper, and yet after all
the document turned out to be • hoax—a perfect fabrica-
tion from beginning to end. (Laughter.) Was there any
reason why this apostolic letter signed Larnbruschini might
not also be a hoax ? (A laugh.) The first clause provided
that all titles under this letter should, be unlawful
and void. Now, he denied that that letter con-
ferred any power, title, or preeminence on these
bishops. -There was not a single word in it about the
Archbishop of Westminster, it named no names, aad con-
ferred no titles. The title of the bill was a bill to prevent
the assumption of ecelesiastical titles, while Lambruschini's
letter, although it certainly parcelled out the country, gave
neither title nor dignity. Therefore he said the noble lord was
bound to produce something upon which they were to legis-
late. He never could believe that that house would con-
sent to pass a bill of pains and penalties without some
document to prove that legislation was necessary. (Hear,
hear.) When he had asked the noble lord about
the preamble, he was informed that it was the seat
as the Emancipation Act, but the fact was that
the noble lord had made a great blunder in poaching frees
the lion. and learned member for Mislhurst. (Hear, hear.)
The next mistake was in not putting a preamble to the first
'clause. The bill slid not require the first clause, but the first
1 clause required a preamble to elucidate it. He would now read
the preamble of the Emancipation Act, and contrast it with
the miserable, wretched, and narrow-minded preamble of

this wretched and contemptible hill. (Cheers from the
Irish members.) It ran, " Whereas by certain acts of par-
liament, certain reNtrictiqns and disabilities arc imposed on
her '-'s Roman catholic subjects to which other sub-

• ..er Majesty s
jeers of the realm are not liable, and it is expellent that
such restrictions and disabilities shall from henceforth be
' discontinued." Nov that was something like a preamble.
(A laugh.) There was nothing in it about sees and re-
scripts and letters apostolic. It was a preamble which did
honour to that great man, that lamented statesman, whose
advice and counsel, whose experience both the house and
the government stood so much in need of at the pre-
vent moment. (Hear, hear.) Ito would now ask the
Solicitor-General whether this was the bill by which he was
pledged to abide, and he wanted to know if it should pa"
how the courts of law were to deal with it. Suppose that
the Solicitor-General himself should have the supreme satis-
faction of proceeding against the Archbishop of Weston
'ter. Thu jury would probably be men of common sense.
Me judge would have to charge them, and would say that
it was an offence under the act to derive a title from the apos-
tolic rescript. But the jury would naturally ask kw
the letter of the 2t)th September, and would say
naturally, How can we tell whether this set is unlawful
until we see the letter ?" How would the learned Solicitor-
General then propose to proceed ? Ile must either give
evidence of this letter, and if it were necessary before a
jury, surely it should be introduced in the preamble af
the bill. This brought him back to his old complaint, whoa
he sow that Lambruschini's letter conferred no title. Well
then they were going to stultify themselves by passim/
a bill for which there was no foundation in the rescript
upon which it was professedly based. He did not know
how the hon. and learned Solicitor-General could answer
this objection, although he had told the house he could
answer anything. (A laugh.) Here had been a measure
delayed for four mouths in consequence of the government
continually t eking amendments from other people. Paco
ling in a little here, and taking out a little there, they had
at last cooked up a bill in such a way that he defied any case
to under-taud it. (Hear.) The Attorney-General, to do hi.
justice, seemed to know nothing at all about the bill, and,
much to his credit, to care less. (A laugh.) There were
three or four and twenty amendments on the paper, and he
was credibly informed that there were double that number
in reserve. (Laughter.) Would it not he latter to make the
opposition a present old ? The hon. member concluded by
musing that the clause he postponed.
The SOLICITOII-GENERAL gave the hon. member
ample credit for the wit and humour he had displayed, but

regretted that he was not better founded in. argument.
(blear, hear.) The hon. member charged the noble Will
at the head of the uovieuruent with having said that E.e
preamble w..s found.al on newspaper information. Tl.c
noble lord hael merely said that it was a matter of notorie.y,
and the objection would have been just of as much three
against the bill of if documentary pr.eof were demanded
of the taking of ecclesiastical titles. The hon. gentleman
was squally incorrect in attributing to him a readiness to
demolish all objections, past, present, and future. What
he had said, when by beard the hon. and learned member
for Athlone misquoting a clause for the purpose of proving
that this bill would repeal the Bequest Act, was that he
would not cuter into the question then, but would be ready
at the proper time to denweidi such an argument. As to
whether they should procced without this bull, the hon.
member seemed to imagine that they must proceed like a
committee on a private bill teirmaliter. lie need hardly say
that in a measure of this kind they would adopt broader
principles of lejslation. A.s to the existence of the bull, he
need hardly better authority than Mr. Bowyer, who
was known to be the legal adviser of Cardinal Wiseman.
and who hail published a pamphlet, in the first page of
which the rcseript was act out verbatim. But they did not
want to prove it. The recital of the preamble! was:—" That
whereas certain Roman catholic subjects of this realm has

assumed certain titles, miler the alleged authority of a cer-
tain brief purporting to have been given at Rome," and
the only fact they would have to prove was the assumption
of such title. (near, hear.) If the hon. member doubted
that fact, let it be investigated, but he hardly thought the
house wouid adopt so derogatory a course. 'the hon. mem-
ber then asked how an indictment could be supported in a
court of law. He (the Solicitor-General) did not imagine
there could he any difficulty. Ile could assure him that the
act would be most effeou-a, and he had not the slightest
doubt of being able to coneict without the production of
the bull. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK would not attempt to follow the grandi-
loque nee of the hon. and learned gentleman, but would
endeavour to understand the bill. The first clause
spoke of the formation of certain dioceses under
the colour of an alleged authority given for that
purpose, coming from Rome, and dated September 29, O.
fhe first clause declared that "the said brief, rescript, or
letters apostolical, and all and every the jurisdiction, autho-
rity. pre-eminence, or title conferred, or pretended to be
conferred, thereby, are and shall be, and be deemed, un-
lawful and void.' Now, let them pursue the steps of a
legal proceeding in this matter. Supposing some " John
Smith " chose to assume the title of Bishop of Cloyne, and
was indicted under this act for so doing, or prosecuted ac-
cording to the forms laid down—without reference to the
second clause, for he was but speaking now to the Ant
clause only—if there wan any meaning in that first clause at
all it was wholly useless. (Hear, hear.) Then came the
question of what the title was ? Under the act the party
would be charged with having assutned a title under the
said brief or rescript—that was, the brief or rescript of a
certain date. Now, how was that to be proved? The
party charged called himself Bishop of Cloync. He (Mr.
Roebuck) did not ask himself if the title assumed was that
of any existing bishopric. or a title belonging to any other
person; but simple whether the title was assumed under
this particular brief or rescript: and, if so, he wanted to
know how the offence was to be proved? They must re-
member that in this case they were entering upon a criminal
proceeding, and the u lode charge must be proved to the:
satisfaction of the jury. (Hear, hear.) How would the
Attorney or Solicitor-lieueral prove that the title had been
conferred by this rescript of September, ISSU? He could
understand the proposition of his honourable and learned
friend the member for Abingdon, who would extend the
operation of the bill to all rescripts or letters apostolical, if
that were adopted he could understand the operation of
the act, but not when it was confined to the one particular
brief or rescript. If the hon. and learned gentleman ad-
mitted that every resertiipt should be included, and that any

. gave notice that on going into core- person mounting the titre of bishop, under any such authei-
mince of supply be would bring the question before the rity, should be made an offence, whether the title assumed
house. were Bishop of elope or Bishop of 3lelopotamus, then
MONTE VIDEO. the consequence would be to prohibit Roman catholic
Mr. ROEBUCK give notice that on Monday next he bishops altogether. (Hear, hear.) He was justified then
would ask the noble lord at the head of the foreign depart- in saying that the noble lord had borrowed from his op-
anent a question relating to certain correspondence which ponents that which must destroy his own object, and the
had taken place between the British government and that bill as it now stood was either utterly useless, or so eaten-
of Monte idee ropeeting a loan to the latter country. sive as to put an end to the Roman catholic religion in
ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES ASSUMVTION BILL. Ireland, as well as in this country. (Hear, hear.) He
The order of the day from the committee on the above wished to know from the Attorney-General, if an informs
hill was then read. tion were laid against a person assuming the title of Bishop
Mr. .1. O'CONNELL presented several petitions against of Cloyne, how he would prove that he took that title ass
tbe bill. der the rescript referred to in this bill ?
The house went into committee. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that his simple en-
Mr. T. BUNCOMBE said that, whatever difference of ewer to the hon. and learned gentleman's question was, that
opinion might Cain on the subject of this bill, it was at all he should not prove it at all; and forthe best of all reason*—
events same matter for congratulation that after four that it would be altogether foreign to the inquiry.. It would
months' deliberation they bad at last arrived at the point not be laid as part of the information, and would not cons,
that the house had permitted the reprinting of the bill in quently be open to proof, and he would not attempt to
aa amended form. so that they now were in possession of a prove it. (Hear, hear.) He might be allowed to observe
measure to which the government had pledged rhemselves. that it would be a at saving of the time of the house if
Now, in this amended bill he found much new matter. He hon. members would deal with one thing at a time. The
would not call it a new bill, because that seemed to give hon. member for Finsbury had proposed to postpone the
offence, but, at all events, it was not the bill which the first clause until they should have the rescript before them;
Louse had read a first and second time. (Hear.) The new but speaking on that motion the hon. and learned member
Minter to which he alluded was in the first clause which he for Sheffield proceeded to discuss the clause itself, and
was about to ask the government to postpone. (A laugh.) asked how he (the Attorney-General) would attempt to
This cause now said that all titles adopted under the autho- prove that the title prohibited by the clause was assumed
rite of the apostolic letter, rescript, or brief, would and should under this brief or rescript from the See of Rome ? To
be unlawful sad void. That rescript was also alluded to in that question he replied there was not the slightest reason
the preamble. which recited that, " whereas certain Roman fur doing so et all. (Hear, hear.) The first and second
catholic subjects of this realm had assumed certain ecelesi- clauses of the bill were totally. distinct ; the first provided
astical titles within the United Kingdom, under the that the brief, rescript, and letters apostolic conferring
authority of a certain brief from the see of Rome. import- the titles was illegal, and the titles conferred under
ing to be given at Rome on the 29th September, 18.10, tic." it void. This related to the authority and juris-
Now, he did not think he was asking an unreasonable thing diction, and was applicable, if he might be allowed
in proposing that this document, of September 21), should he to use the term, to civil purposes ; it created no
produced previously to:their being called upon to inflict by offence for which en information could be 'issued against
porrfueto legislation, an injustice on many millions of her any party. The offence was enacted under the second
Majesty'ssubjects—(cheers from the Irishmembers)—to take clause. " Hear, hear." from the Master of the Rolls.)
from etent, in fact, all the rights which had been conferred He was glad to hear hi, hon. and learned friend the master
upon them by the Emancipation Act. (Continued cheering of the Rolls confirm that view. The hon. and learned
from the came quarter.) All he asked was, that the docu- member fur Shedield's objection proceeded on the assump-
meat should be produced. On • former evening he had tion that the two clause+ should be taken together. But it
asked the noble lord at the head of the government where was clear that under the first clause no man could proceed
n act, done
y
was this brief, and whether he would have any objection to to indict, for that clause merely annulled a
produce it ? The noble lord must have seen it, or he could under, or title conferred by. thebull or rescript ; but with
not have put j; in his bill. It was not in the original bill, regard to the offence that was created by the second clause,
but there was some allusion to it in the clause which bad and all that it would be necessary to prove would be that