The Express.
London, England, 1849-05-26 00:00:00

whisk essasiMed of 999 omits miles. He charged
the burn .1 peerlinne there with inhumanity,
inseams* as they Why suesintion compelled every pauper,
sick an well, to some to the weekhonse to receive relief. The
consommes was that the poor creatures in travelling along
the rude bed fellers down and died, and no fewer than 738
deaths had occurred in one week. Was the house prepared
to sit silently and hear patiently of this awful slaughter of
the people ?
Sir 0, GREY wished to correct an error. The noble lord
did not say that the deaths in the Ballinasloe workhouse
were six per day. The highest mortality was at the time of
the cholera, when the deaths amounted in one week, in-
cluding the auxiliary workhouses, to 490, but that mortality
was materially diminished during the succeeding week, said
noble lord said that on the last day an account was fur-
nished they had diminished to six. He begged to remind the
hon. gentleman that then was in Glasgow frightful mor-
tality arising from the cholera, and he believed that there
had been no complaint that relief had not been granted from
the state. He would also beg te remind those who felt dis-
posed to reproach the people of this country with a want of
benevolence towards Ireland that they were already harlot
a large pressure of local taxation from the relief afforded
by Euglish poor rates to Irish poor in this country. (Hear.)
Lord CAS rLEaz &OH asked whether it was the inten-
tion of government, after the rate in aid should be ex-
hausted, not, under any circumstances that might arise in
Inland, to make any further grant for Irish distress ?
Lend J. RUSSELL said that the same questions had been
mired by other hon. members, with a view to protect the
public puree from further demands, end be had always re-
fused to give any pledge of the government. (Hear.) He
said that the government should be left free to take their
own view of any circumstances that might arise in Ireland.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. J. O'CONNELL then moved the adjournment of
the house in order that he might entitle himself to be heard
in reply to the charge of the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
and in support of the demand he had made on behalf of the
Irish people for relief. He denied that in voting against an
income tax or against the rate in-aid he threw any obstacle
in the way of relief. He had shown that the mortality in
Ballinaskie called for the immediate interference of the state,
and that the accommodation in the workhouse of that town
was wholly inadequate for the number of poor.
Mr. SPOONER rose to order. He did not think it
was competent for the hon. gentleman to move the ad-
ionrement of the house in order that they might take into
emisideration the distress of Ireland. (Laughter.)
The Sri:Anna not having interfered,
Mr. J. O'CONNELL resumed by recapitulaling the facts
VIM which he founded the claim of the Irish people te fur.
Vier assistance from the state. The Irish people were starv-
ing, and this, the richest country in the werld, was permit-
them to die of want without an effort to save them, cr
without even evincing a disposition to consider their distress
—(cries of " Oh")—thus insulting humanity and casting
upon it a blood-stained blot.
PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.
In reply to a question from Mr. CAMPBELL,
Sir J. WALMSLEY said that it was fully the intention
of the hon. member for Montrose to bring forward his mo-
tion for parliamentary reform on the 6th of June, and he
was sure the house would be gratified to learn that the hon.
gentleman was completely restored to health. (Cheers.)
Several motions on the paper were postponed to future
days.
SUPPLY.
The report of Committee of Supply (navy estimates) hav-
ing been brought up and received, and the vote of 133,2141.
for the Admiralty-office being proposed,
Mr. COBDEN asked the Filet Lord of the Admiralty if
he would postpone the report until that day week, as his
hon. friend, the member for Montrose, wished to bring for-
ward two questions upon the eighth item, namely, the re-
duction of the number of artificers, and the discominn-
inir of the dockyard battalions. His hon. friend had served
upon the committee last year and given much attention to
the subject. As no inconvenience could arise from it, he
hoped tne right hon. gentleman would not refuse to postpone
the report for a week.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY also asked for postponement, as
he, too, had a notice on, the subject
Sir F. BARING was most desirous of affording his hon.
friend, tie member for Mmtrose, an opportunity of stating
his views on the subjects referred to; but for that
purpose it would be sufficient to postpone the eighth
vote only.
Col. SIBTHORP rose to move that the vote now pr-
posed of 138,214/. be reduced to 132,7531. This reduction
he wished to effect by diminishing the number of the Lords
of the Admiralty to four. lie was of opinion that too much
cookery moiled the broth. (A laugh.) He would take
6001. off the salary of the first lord, and reduce the others in
proportion. He had no wish to impair the efficiency of the
I service, which deserved his best sympathies and sup-
port; but he was anxious, at the same time, to take
care of the pockets of the people; and with that view he
begged leave to move this amendment
The question having been put,
Captain PECHELL admitted that the hon. and gallant
gentleman had carried great questions affecting the public
purse; but he could scarcely believe him serious in Isis pre-
sent amendment. He surely did not think that the Lords of
the Admiralty would content to reduce their salaries, while
all the other departments of government remained untouched.
Ho hoped the Lords of the Admiralty would not fail
to take the case of the lieutenants and commanders
into conederation. The lieutenants complained that 200 had
been removed from their list as commanders, and the num-
ber had not been filled up. The complaint of the commanders
was precisely similar ; and these complaints ought not to be
disregarded. No further grant would be necessary for this
purpose, SS about 27,0001. a year might be Mau available,
which was at present received as freight of erode. Last year
the Mexican government had complained of the smuggling
of specie in British men-of war—a proof of the necessity of
some alteration in our system. He oelieved the government
did not consider the cositinuance of the system neces-
sary, though Greenwich Hospital wee, no doubt, a
great gainer by it, to the extent of 18,4001. in
two years. In the same period the captains had
received upwards of 27,0001., near 17,0001. of which
had gone to the captains of six ships. This sum
might very properly be applied to the relief of widows, and
the promotion of deserving officers. Since 1819, 1,344,7051.
had been applied to the payment of freight as described.
While applications of the most heart-rending nature were
made to the admiralty, let them late no time in properly
devoting this sum of money. The forfeiture of widows' pen-
sions, on their marrying again, was productive of great hard-
ship ; he hoped this matter also would be considered.
' Mr. B. COCHRANE asked whether it was the intention
I of the government,in the face of the events passing on the con-
*mint, to continue the reductions in the navy. It was the
general opinion that the whole continent might soon be in-
volved in war ; he therefore called on the government to
state what they meant to do. It was a most unwise and in.
Judicious course to continue reductions which, in the eventef
war, must occasion double the expense to restore the service
Ito a state of efficiency.
Admiral DUNDAS replied to the observations of Captain
Peahen with respect to the masters and commanders. He
Ina understood to say that there was not a more laudable
set of men in the service than the masters ; some of them
had ri-en to be post captains ; but as to their being placed
on the same footing as lieutenant?, that was perfectly im-
possible.
Sir F. BARING said that in 1831 a great anxiety for Se-
duction had been expressed, and a committee was appointed
to revise all the salaries of the Admiralty. They went
through the whole, and fixed what they considered proper
sums. At that time the salary of the first lord was reduced
from 5,0001. to 4,6001, and those of the four lords were fixed
at 1,0001. each. The salary of the first secretary was re-
duced ; that of the second was fixed at its present amount.
Last year when the committee was appoished to examine the
I mewls of the expenditure of the Admiralty, no objection
bed been made, on the part of any one connected
with the board, to the amount of their salaries being in-
quired into. Some of the officers named by the hon. and
pliant member, as the storekeeper, were of the highest ins-
. (Hear, hear.) In reference to the question of the
yes
an for observe
itripdreuportin,ahaebwrnoaudldtha e that there
wapar-
wo
fle mien Ivfo the
in this isgane
dradven M the inturarealbrlyr
the past year, be would find that the number was by no
leteeptiraz
ad
inconsiderabletwog be member
means inconsiderable. He hoped the hon. gentleman's prog-
nostications as to the events on the continent would prove
to be untrue ; but if war should unhappily setae, and this
country should be called on for active exertion, he was cer-
tain that the government would not shrink from coming down
and asking the house for such further votes as might be ne-
cessary. The question of freight (the right hon. gentleman
was understood to say) was under the consideration of the
board.
Mr. SPOONER supported the amendment, observing
that they could not make a genee.l reduction of salaries
without commencing with some particular salaries. He
would support every reduction which did act affect the
safety of the country.
Capt. BERKELEY said the salaries of the lords of the
admiralty had n been increased since 1770, during the
period of very high prices, as those of other government
officers had, and therefore the reduction could not be sup-
ported on the ground alleged by the hon. member ,who bad
last spoken.
Capt. BOLDERO defended the salaries as they stood, ors
the ground of the onerous duties imposed on the officers.
Col SIBTHORP said, after what had passed, he should
trust to the generosity of ministers, and would withdraw his
amendment.
The various items were then gone through, and spud to,
with the exceptica of those specially postponed.
Oa number 10,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked whether any portion of
the sum arising from the sale of stores had been brought
into the account?
Sir F. BARING was understood to say that the amount
this year was 65,0001. Tide included repayments of all kinds.
The resolution was then agreed to.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
The house then resolved itself into a committee of supply.
On the vote of 1,8.55,5881. for the expenses of her Majesty's
land forces at home and stations abroad,
Mr. OSBORNE said he regretted to see such a beggarly
account of empty benches on such an occasion. Although
he did not sere. with the Peace Society and his hon. friend
ne.r him (Mr. Cobden), that they had arrived at a state of
society in which they could do without armies altogether, he
was certain of this, that under a better management of the
army, they might conaline greater efficiency with more
secoystneonamyntfhanaan wasasgetmombet found
tinhe it at
yprewsearat.
nth:
to this country, because they alone had their

separate departments—the Horse Guards for the infantryem
cavalry, the ordnance, aed commissariat departments,
where, as in France and other countries, these diff
agt
branches were placed under one head. The civil esigbgsk,
mint of the Horse Guards cost 94,1991. ; the ordnance de.
pertinent 91,9361 ; and the compliment departreevosegy
the treasury, which be believed was very lieu at.
soured, 316,0001. ; making a total of 601,0001. end odd. b,
1837 the noble lord at the head of the government &adorned
ether members of the government were members of a esaa
mission which recommended the coaaolidation of the Nem
Guards and the Ordaanoe ; but up to the preseat time
no' king of that kind had been done. A saving of 68,316(
might be effected by the abolition of the office date Noster.
General of the Ordnance, of the Judge Advocate, and ma
charges ter agenciis,*hich amounted to no less than 36,000 i.
There was also a greater disproportion between the number
of officers and men in the English service than in duiteg
other countries. In 1783, at the conclusion of the sae with
America, there were 824 general and field officers. Ia 1799,
during the French war, there were 1863, but at the pewit
time, in a time of peace, there were 2,106. (Hear, beigrii
They had no fewer than 9 field-marshals, 68 generals,
lieut.-generals, and 174 major-generals, for 138,000 men is.
eluding the Indian servtoe. He should propose to hiy,
a filed establishment of general and field diem. A
great saving might be effected in this way. With n,
spect to the system of giving the clothing of regime*
to the colonels no worse could be adopted. Thq
should give the colonels adequate pay, and cot
allow them to mike • profit upon the clothing of the
soldier. The clothing would then be better, and the oft
would be more satisfied. At least 14,0001. a year might be
saved in this way. He denied that the British army sno
better and more cheaply clothed them the soldiers of alt
other countries. The cost of clothing the French army, egg,
, airs included, wee 11. 13e. 2d. per head ; that of the Prelim
army including officers, 11. 155.10.1. per bead ; whilst thee
of the British army was more than 31. per bead. As to the
clothing itself, surely no person would compare that of a
Prussian regiment with that of an English regiment al,
Thomas Brisbane, in his evidence, stated hie opinion that a
great saving mi. ht be made in this respect. They hat
twenty-two regiments of cavalry, five of which vets
employed and paid by the East India Cam.
pony. There were seventeen regiments left at holm
which were known under the different names of lances,
hussars, light dragoons, Sc. Now the fact was, that the bott
dragoon was heavier than the heavy dragoon ; his hone cm
Tied a greater weight. He should propose that these 17 is.
giments should be consolidated into 12, all of them to 1,
called dragoons. He should also propose to have half.o4
officers employed as military clerks. When the retineg
pension of a clerk, after forty years' service, was 7001. a yin,
whilst that of a general officer, atter the some period o' ims
vice, and after expending perhaps between 6,0001. and 7.0601,
was only 4001. a y ear, they must conclude either that the my
of the former was too great, or that of the latter too little. lb
would not say anything respecting the reduction of men, be.
cause it would be impossible to make any as long as they eta.
tinned their present colonial system. (Hear, hear)

Mr. F. MAULE said that whilst a committee had tla
various subjects introduced by his hon. friend under etas
eideration, the house would net expect him to enter op*
ther discussion now. With regard to agencies, although the
charge might appear high, be believed no charge wu mots
economical or more convenient with regard to the °San.
(Hear, hear.) With regard to the system of clothing, Se
was by no means wedded to the present system, if a sew
economical and efficient one was pointed out ; but it skull
los recollected that the committee of 1833 were unanimously
of opinion that no better means of clothing the ony
could be adopted. With regard to making half-pay often
military clerks, he was of opinion that any such Mk%
would not promote the efficiency of the public service. With
regard to the other detoils into which his hon. friend catered,
he was not so well qualified to give an opinion, and hs
thought it better to wait for the result of the committee.
Mr. COBDEN said that, the house havitivotedtbessine
ber of men before E.ster, it would not be either conistest cc
logical to refuse the money necessary to clothe and pay then.
He rose merely for the purpose of making a few Osumi=
on the manner in which the reduction of 10,000 men had
been made. He found a reduction to that amount laths
number of men ; but, on turning to the number of oaken,
he found no corresponding reduction. (Herr, hear.) Let
year there were 4,862 officers; this year there were 4.759,
being a reduction of 103 officers to 10,000 men; or, is
other words, 10 per cent. of the men were reduced,
end not more than 2 per cent of the officers. (Hear, been
lie did mot think this a very economical mode of making re
trenchment. Instead of having 10,000 men drafted out d
the regiments and paid off, he should like to Bee 10 or 12
regiments reduced. That was the proper mode of reductioc,
if they really meant to make a bona fide and permanent
one. But if this reduction was only a temporary eon.
cession to what some regarded as but a temporary clamour
in the public mind for a reduction of the public expenditure,
which, as soon as it ceased, was to be raised to its old sten&
ard, then they were quite right in retaining the skeleton d
regiments. But, if they meant to make a permanent radar>
lion of 10,000 men, he saw no reason why they should not
reduce 10 or 12 regiments, and reduce the °Mao
in proportion to the number of men. (Hear, hear.)
He did not consider either the officers or the men in the
army and navy too well paid : they received much less thu
those engaged in the American service, and he would Ike
to see them paid as well. His real complaint was, that Ms
persons were employed in both services than were wanted,
and he wished to see the number reduced. He agreed with
the hon. member for Middlesex, that in order to reduce tie
army, a total change must he made in the colonial tutees,
under which, in its present state, the duties of the army
were almost as arduous as in time of war. There wen is
New Zealand about 2,000 soldiers, although the whits
population did not exceed 20,000. It surely was not nee*
sary for the interests of the colonies that a soldier should
be maintained for two families. Soldiers who wished to
settle in New Zealand might be disbanded for the
purpose. That was the course which had been pursued by
the Americans with respect to soldiers iu their arm ohs
desired to settle in Mexico. The noble lord at the headed
the government had stated the other eventng a feet which
made a deep impression on his (Mr. Cobden's) mind, in
connexion with the recent outrages in Canada. The loyslid
party, as they were called in that colons-Jets' burnt their on
parliament house, because a majority of the House of Repre-
sentatives had given a vote of which they did not appose;
and he could not miss that opportunity of stating has ham
that the incendiary body who had committed that est
would find no sympathy, either in this country or in tin
United States. (Hear, hear.) But what did the noble lad
declared that theresay tw were only oconstable' in Montreal
Wily was this ? It was because the English govern**
had hitherto treated the colonists as children, finding oldies
to take care of them instead of leaving them to their on
resources. (Hear, hear.) As regarded the committee, d
which he was a member, he must observe that the ordnance
estimates would form work enough for its members dubs
the present session, and the army department would not be
finished probably before the end of the next ; but the hoses
ought not, on any such ground, to abstain from making at
once any practicable reductions. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. B. OSBORNE wished to call the attention of the
right hon. gentleman the Secretary at War to a question of
great importance to the army.; he referred to what IN
celled, he believed, " the shoji-jacket question." (Ltsd
ter.) Perhaps the tight hon. gentleman was not in a pc*
tion to see those unfortunate objects who move about dis
country like gearecrows. To him (Mr. Osborne) it
appeared that the whole army ought at least I
be clothed alike. Even if the hideous shoe*
nation were continued, there could be no good:neon why
the officers of those branches of the service which were ad
generally the richest, should be debarred from wearing a
jacket at mess, while officers of the household brigade wets
allowed to do so. Neither did he understand why the Fa'
tillers had been deprived of the bear-skin cap which was *
Mined by the Guards.
Mr. F. MAULE believed there had been more nobs wig
to the shell-jacket in that house than out at it
r(red reesions of dissent from Mr. B. Osborne.) lie bade*
tainly heard of no complaint from the army itself ; and be*
lieved the dress was adopted simply because it was considersi
necessary that the officers should be clothed in a dress of the
same colour as that of the men. He certainly could not Is
why all officers alike should not be allowed to wear a jacket
at mem.
The vote was then agreed to.
On 173,3761. being proposed for general staff.officse
abroad,
Mr. LOCKHART objected to the vote, so far as it rebid
to Malta. He complained that Malta, being a mailer's*.
tion, like Gibraltar, was now under a civil government, sal
characterised the recent arrangement by which the gore*
went of Malta had been transferred from a military tot
civil officer as a job. Wishing to see the present allowance
cease after September, he proposed as en amendment tors
duce the vote by the sum of 7791.
Mr. HAWES defended this vote. The appointment of I
civil governor in Malta had given the greatest satisfactioc,
and ought not to have been termed a job. He did not knoe
any similar arrangement which had been attended with
equally good results. The present governor, Mr. MO
O'Ferrall, had introduced great reforms in the bland, esi
the result of his administration had been a considerable in-
provement in its trade. The former governor had 5,0004. 5
year ; 5001. had been taken from the governor's salon*
assist in paying the commander.in chief, whose office wee
now distinct from that of the governor, and the extra mould
was reouired to make up the additional expenditure.
The house then divided—
For the amendment l7
Against it

The vote was then agreed to, u were the following
10,298/., part of a sum of 19,2981., balance of what ban
been voted on account for the Royal Military Asylum so
the Ilibernian Military School.
of which the balance ilia
33,2861., part of a sum of 66,286,
been voted on account for the charge of the volunteer ro.
weary corps.
8,1201., pert ore sum of 15,1201., of which the balance hid
been voted on account for the charge of allowances aria
awards for diAinguished services.
39,9081., part of a sum of 78,9081., of which the balance
had been voted on account, for the pay of general officers,
not being colonels of regiments.
28,0001., part of a sum of 56,000/4 of which the balance
had been voted on account, for the pay of reduced and to
tired officers.
21)0,000!., part of a sum of 00,0001., of which the baling.
had been voted on account, for the full pay and milital
allowances of reduced and retired officers of her Majesty's
land forces.
22,1561., part of a sum of 44,158/., of which the haloes
had been paid on account, for the half-pay and allowances
of military officers in foreign ports.
61,7781., part of a sum of 128,775 i., of which the Woa
had been vAed on account for pensions to the widows 01
officers i,f the land floc s.
47,4001., part •f a sum of 95,5001., of which the balance had