The Express.
London, England, 1847-03-10 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 10, 1847.

were elicited by the proceedings:] working men, or of those
who thought they were educated, he did not know. He was
not disposed to admit that the great body of the working
men were ignorant, but he thought that those who said they
were were themselves 'ignorant. (A laugh.) He was glad
to hear the remark of Mr. (Slott, that the greats, ess of a go-
vernment depended upon the affections of the ps'orle ; for
be held the principle that government should be ba.'ed upon
the affections of the people, and not upon property. Mr.
Brook went on to express his opinion that education sh,,uld,
as in America, be free from the trammels of both church And
diaseut, that the instruction should he wholly secular, asid
that it should be left to the parents of the children alone tO
give them such religious education as they might deem pro-
per. He was opposed to all centralisation, and- was ready to
go for a separatioa et Church and State.
Mr. WICKSTERD said, that, like Mr. Brook, he would
prefer a merely secular education ; but, as their worthy
vicar had stand, this was a move in the right direction ;
and, therefore, be supported it.
Mr. 8. HAT said that he deemed a religious education the
most important, and he did not see how they could separate
religious from secular instruction.
The resolution was agreed to.
The Rev. Jenne Faworrrr said that tie subject on wLich
they were engaged that evening was one of vast importance
to them and their children ; and the resolution intrusted to
him was also of great importance, because it seriously
affected the working of the schools that were established,
referring, as it did, to the position and the proepi eta of the
masters of three schools. He held in his hand a volume of
the reports of the inspectors, and he had read with powerful
interest the statements affecting the position of the school-
masters. If their children were to be efficiently taught there
must be effective masters; but he found that a vast proper- I
Lion of the existing masters were subsisting on a paltry pit-
tance, besides being greatly overworked. The effect of this
was, that the better.qualified manors obtained other and
more profitable employments, much to the disadvantage of
the rising generation. He had, therefore, Touch pleasure io
calling upon them to support the resolution which he had
to move, as follows:

That tire position and prospects of the muter+, as well as the quality
and character of the hu.tructlan given in many of the elementary
ithoola In this country, ere equally unratinfamory ; and that A la of
the lainteat Importance to improve the one and to elevate the condition
of the other.

Dr. HOOK, Vicar of Leeds, was loudly cheered
on presenting himself. He said,—ficntlemen, at this late
period of the evening, I shall not think of detaining you
long ; and, in short, I have not much to say to you. I
stand here as an advocate for the education of the people on
the most extensive scale. I stand not here as a supporter of
the government, or as an advocate of the present measure;
but, having myself suggested an education on an extensive
plan, I cars not whether my plan is condemned or not ; I
say, " Bring forward another ; bring forward a better, and
I will support it." (Cheers.) And here I find that her
Majesty's ministers have brought forward a measure, which
does not propose to go so far as I would go ; but because they
won't go with me 20 miles, I see no reason why I should not
go with them five miles. As I have said before, I consider
this to be • movement in the right direction ; and I wish
that the working men of Leeds would use their usual good
erase, end look on the subject as it is now brought before
them. There is an attempt to confuse tho matter. (Hear.)
—to make it ppear ea if it was a contest between church
and dissent. Now, we might oppose the educational scheme
of the government as churchmen, or we might oppose it if
we were dissenters ; but the first objection now brought
against not only this, but any measure, is the interference
on the part of the state. (Hear.) That is the grand objeo-
tion which is brought satinet the measure. Do not lose
sight of that. Do not, in the course of the controversy,
let that be loot sight of. The question is, whether we will
admit the principle that the state may interfere, or sus
will not ? (Hear.) AU I can say is, that if you are of opi-
nion that the education of the country is now sufficient in
quantity and in quality, I have nothing more to say. It II
your look out, not mine. I have published a pamphlet, in
which I have shown that the education of this country is de-
ficient both in quality and in quantity. Myst tomcats have
been attacked, but they have not been disproved. I be-
lieve them to be: substantially correct. But I don't
are about theory, if you will look about you, as
I have looked about me ; and if you are content
with the present state of education, then we need not move
one step further; but if you are convinced that the educe
Men of the people ought to be conducted on a more eaten.
dm scale, if you are convinced that both in quantity and in
meslity it ought to be improved, why then take your stand
baldly upon that, and demand that an improvement be
made, demand that aid and assistance shall be given. Now,
I um perfectly well aware that a few years ago the Church
was unwilling to allow that the state should interfere. The
Church then took the same course that the opponents of this
measure are taking now. Tcn or twelve years ago I took
Hat course myself. I was desirous to see the experiment
tried as to voluntaryism. I give the Dissenters credit for all
Heir exertions in this cause; but we have tried ourselves to
He utinoet, and the observafons I have made sa'isfy me that
though we have not failed, we have not, by our united
exertions, been able to meet the evil. Well, then, let us look
at the state of things now. The government has proposed a
measure which I believe the Church generally is desirous of
accepting, being ready to make large concessions—comes-
visas which, ten or twelve years ago, we should not have
been willing to make, because we believe that all concessions
which do not go to the sacrifice of principle ought to be
made in this righteous cause. (Hear, hear.) If you will
bear this principle in mind, I have no fear of your coming to
a right conclusion. As I have raid Ido not come here u
a rapporter of the government, but I do say that the noble
lard who has devised this plan has acted very wisely and
cantiouely in the first move that be has made. It is nut in-
tended, I believe, to be final ; it is a step in advance. It
W been surrounded with difficulties. His life has been de.
voted to the advancement of civil and religions liberty. He
hiss been looked on with jealousy on one side; and
he has endeavoured to steer his way equally, and to deal
equal justice to both sides. If there le not equal justice to both
Wes, let us give over the measure. All we want is fair play.
(Hear.) If those who oppose this measure will only go to
the Lord President of the Council and nay, " You are doing
we a manifest wrong," I will go with them and ask him to re-
dress that wrong. (Cheers.) I speak in the name of many
persons, and I am sure they will agree with me when I say
that at this time and at this day—l don't care what may be
said about other times or other days—the charch only
wants fair play. (Hear, hear.) I believe that if you will
only examine this measure fairly (and my friend, Mr. Sin-
clair, will shortly explain it to you) you will find that an at-
tempt his been made to do right to both sides—to favour
none. We don't want favour, but only lair play. If you
will only bear this point in mind, you will judge rightly in
determining the question whether the state may assist in
the education of the people or not. That is the
real question. And if you concur with me in
thinking that the measure now proposed is a measure in
which an attempt is made to waist all parties without
Waring any, I think you will come to the conclusion that
ma ought to give the measure, at least, a fair trial. f Hear.)
Working men of Leeds, I beg to assure you, and I hope you
le believe, that I am your friend, and desirous, in every
posdble way that I can, of promoting your interests. I may
have failed—l may have given much offence ; but all I can
' my is—and I can answer for myself as to that—that my
heart is right, and that my heart is yours. (Cheers.) And I
call upon you at the present time to prevent the cause of
education from being retarded in its progress, to prevent
sectarian influences from throwing any impediment in its
way. I call upon you as a reverend gentleman who pre-
ceded me did, to assist the government of the country to
reward • irtue as well as to punish vice. I call upon you to
aesiet them to do what will add to the comfort, and respect,
and intelligence of the working classes. I call upon you to
assist them in doing what will enable you to edu-
cate your children, so that they may be able
to exercise any constitutional privilege with which
they may afterwards be invested—(loud cheers); in a word,
gentlemen, I call upon you to allow the government to
empty the gaols by building schools. (Loud applause.)
The Mayor then put the resolution, and it was declared to
him been unanimously adopted.
The Rev. %Yuman SINCLAIR said he had undertaken
the arduous task, which, however, had been ably anti-
cipated by many of the preceding speakers, of referring
more particularly to the minutes of the Privy Council, and
of endeavouring to give an account of that on which so
melt misrepresentation had been widely spread. That
*ern was great need of an increase of the means of edu-
cation, had been proved that night. When he served
in the army, he frequently had occasion to canna
the great proportion of soldiers who were raised
to the rank of non-commissioned office's; but it was
only lately that he had discovered the cause. He held
in his hand two reports, one made to parliament in 1839, and
W other to the Leeds town council in 1841. The one
showed that so long ago ae 1616, the parliament of that day
in Scotland had passed resolutions for establishing a system
of education throughout the country; though it was not fully
tarried into effect till after the revolution of 1696; but in
1839 there were 1,047 schools, with 1,170 teachers, enoying
an income from endowments of 29,b001., and of 55,3291. from
bee. And yet this system did not crush private enterprise,
be there were 3,996 non-endowed schools, and 4,469 teachers,
having together 225,061 pupils ort of a population of two
millions, and the average was 101 out of every hundred in
the northern parts of the kingdom. The report to the Leeds
town council IR 1841 stated that out of its large population
there we., only 6,755 children attending the weekday
schools ; and it was said of the masters that very few of
them knew anything beyond the mere elements of the Rags
Bah lenguags; that the teachers were more tit to be aright
than the scholars ; and that the instruction they gave was of
the most unimportant kind. He could, therefore, now under.
stand why those places, which were open to both nations.
were chiefly bestowed upon ticotehmen. He wanted
is repress that irregularity, not by depressing the one but by
elevating the other. There were many modes in which thee
object might be carried out. But he would eft-emoted
wale to road the statement of that far-seeing patriot, Adam
Bmith, in the let chapter of the sth book or his " Wealth of
Nations," and they would see why it was not possible for
voluntary estahliebmeabs to provide for the adequate educa-
tion of the people. And the reason that he gave was the
difference between the wants of the body and the wants of
the mind the former were necessarily redressed when they
woes, bat the latter were neglected tell it became affected
with it, own torpor. The rev. gentleman explained sums
points in the minutes of council which bad been isierepre-
muted, and uneluded by moving—

Tiol,Unosu 'Meow itLif to aU thedelalls, this nmellng bane.
the isinme be Missile, Me of Om
be of Osemell
an lidnsetkm, remake MI pealhammi. to be ibmileden semi
prtrabsisk and is andine ell** mem Ise draimang end ba-
Cnnirthe minden moms et obamtink wkh the otareemens at per.
tairsas to on melees atlas eemmoky.
lons DAIINTON Luococa, Iraq., said that thin& the
hour was so far advanced, ho felt it incumbent upon him, as
a dissenter, connected as he was with the extreme portion of
dissenters, being an Unitarian, to express his concurrence in
the measures which bad been submitted to them that even-
tug. And it we. not without feeling; of doubt and of pain

that ho had been under the necessity of dissociating him.TN
oa this question from many friends with whom he had bee.",
wont to act in political matters, because he deemed it a truly
Catholic spirited measure; though he objected to the power
given to the Lads of the Council, an irmponsible body.
He seconded the resolution.
The motion was adopted with only two dissentients.
JOHN ATKINSON, Esq., moved—
Thai the wearily of an annual rote to provide the requisite funds,
and the constant attention of parliament thereby secured, form a ow-
Witutional cheek, which appears sufficient to control the possible
abuses of patronage, end en undue esp. nditure of public mm.ry ; ant
that the vigilance of the House of OM mow may be eel led on for the
investigationor redrew. Malty grievances that may be alleged.
0. Eros, Esq., seconded the resolution, and said he thought
that the points adverted to, exactly met the objection of Mr.
Locoock. The resolution yea adopted.
SIIILTON. Esq., moved
Th. t ea the benefits of government aid are proposed to be confined
to toool masters and mistresses who have been trained in Normal
allows a'rtady under inspection, this meeting would beg !nice re-
spectfully to suggest that these benefit. might, for the present be ex.
tended to to when who have not had that ads-ant:age, but who shall be
reported m tk• duly qualified by competent examination.
The Rev. .0 Xining Elkin seconded the motion, and it was
supported by :Ir. Alex sw, a schoolmaster. Like the rest,
in".. agreed to.
Mr. lawman r:t moved—

mat a petition in fe roar of the mbar* be presented to the Home
of Commons through tee members of this borough ; that thew teso-
lutions be also communio.rted to Dm tort President of the Council,
by a deputation fn. this meeting, consisting of the Mayor, Rev. Dr.
Hook, J. G. Marshall, Ems, Her. W. Sinclair, J. Gott, Paq., Rev. C.
Wicksteed, and Hamer Mansfield, Esq.; and that such deputation be
likewise requested to plate themselves in communication with the
Riding and borough member.
Mr. lhauuot.r seconded the proposition, and it waa
adopted.
mr. Gorr, having taken the chair, thanks to the mayor
were proposed by the vicar, seconded by Mr. Marshall, and
carried by acclamation, for his kindness in taking the I
chair, and fur the able and disinterested manner in which be I
filled it. The mayor briefly expressed his acknowledgments,
and the meeting broke up about haltpast eleven o'clock at
night.

The Wowing is the form of the petition referred to in the
eighth resolution
To the Ellenorable the (5-intreona of the United Magda= of Great
Britsiamed Ireland. in Parliament &trembled, the humble petition
of the =dersigoesi inhabitanta of the borough of Leeds, In the
asuatyefTork,
Beetigg sheweth,—That the notorious and deplorable deficiency
ef Men Der the pod and efficient education of large numbers
men tie perm dense In this country, mad the existence of a
pest unseat aflgunree *ad crime, Is an evil of alarming magni-
Mk. la alb kr inapt End energetio remedial measures on the
poet of dime eellte -emosetolty. That in the opinion of your
peellerts It Ile the blurbs day et the Mete to facilitate and encou-
rage dr eirelles lithe wbelehody of the people, but that in radar
vegeta le peseta the general education of the people, the policy of
the feememeet sheald be to stimuiste, not to euperaris, the colon.
tai garb et the people, and to make to aid equally ucormible
he ell br swift constraint upon the religious convictions
of reieftWee. That the position and prospects of the masters, as
VIII OD Ilietialty sad character of the 'menet ion given in many of
the elemeeesey setioals in Una country, are equally unsathdected, and
that It Is ef the highest importanoe to Improve the one and to elevate
the eliedlelen of lb. other. That, without being pledged to all the
=the' petitioner. believe tbe scheme fur extending
laidopera-
himmlitee et Ommeil on Education reoecUy before
patelenelat, is Ilembed s mune principles. and tom" tors efficient
means develeplepead Improving the existing meant of education,
with the observers it perfect fairnese to all Welke. of the commu-
nity :-1. By Marla( aid to all parties engagri in progenitor educa-
tion, while ft secures to each full liberty of csiascienor ea to the reli-
gious training to be combined with the secular instmetkm.
I —S. By the manner in which It calls forth and sus-
tains voluntary contributions for the education of the people, and
at the some time renders them effective. S. By the encouragement
which it hold. out to young persona to devote themselves to the pro-
fession of teachers, and by. the judicious regulations which it contains
for ascertaining and securingtheir progressive advancement in know-
ledge. 4. By the means which It offers for elevating the master'.
.tending 111 society, by increasing his stipend and making provision
far hie old Um. S. By pviding a mortal:lt stinaulus, both rimesters
• end scholsni, through the medium of inapection, while the discipline
and management of the schools, the control of the master, and the
religious Instruction of the pupil.% ere left reclusively to the local
euppo.rtent; thus combining the advantages of government counte-
nance and support with the free play of popular energy and viei-
lance. that the .matey it s annual rote to provide
the requisite fund. he maples the mad plan into opere-
ttas and the moment elleffilles et parliament thereby secured,
hem a erestitatianal diráwá appear, to your petitioners suffi-
cient In wand IY pillibb ANON of patronage sad an undue caper.-
Mon of palls aim" : amel hot the vigilance of your honourable
hame aeq IM rebid as fee Ile inveatieration or redrew of any grie-
vances that ref be alleged. Year petitioners therefore hu•nbly pray
that your beseeralie house vet be pkward to adopt march measures a,
you may enealder bent calculated to promote the sitcom of the plan
for the extension and improvement of education remedy Laid before
parliament by the Committee of Council on education.—And your
petitioners will ever pray, ho.