The Express.
London, England, 1851-03-12 00:00:00

QUITANDCILOWN BENTS.

In the absence of Mr. FIit:NCH,
Col. DUNNE moved fora return of all estates in Ireland
on which the quit and crown rents wert• purchased by the
commissioners for the sale of iucumbered estates, specifying
the rate of purchase, and also the number of years' pur-
chase at which such estates were sold.
The return was ordered.
NAVY ESTIMATES.

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The report of supply on the navy estimates having been
brought up,
Mr. 111.: ME rose and said that he desired to place on re-
cord his reasons for not agreeing to the number of men
which had been voted. The hon. member then read a
series of resolutions, declaring in substance the Unpulicy of
at present voting such a number of men in the face uf so
many petitions praying for the reduction of taxation and
the relief of the distress amongst owners and occupiers of
laud, and asserting that inquiry should have been instituted
to see how far the number could be reduced, and that the
African squadron should be dispensed with. The resolutions
further stated that the number on the books had out
generally reached the number voted.
The report was then received.
COMMONS INCLOSURE BILL.

This bill posed through committee. 'rho report to be
brought up to-morrow (this day).
The other orders of the day were then di posed of, and
the howte adjourned at a quarter past seven o'clock.

PARLIAMENTARY DIVISION.

WOODS AND F01.3..K51:8...7.-LOILD DUNCAN'S

.. _ __ _ _ ._ _
NOTION.
AYE", ITO: NOM, 110.
AYES.
Ariderky, Chula B. Grace, Outer O. J. Mowatt, Founts
Alonek, I bangs Graham, Sir Jaime Noel, Don. G. J.
Andersen, Arthor ()rattan, ..enry O'Brian, J.
Arkwricht, George Greened, Gilbert Parke, Chariot W.
Mollie, 11. J. Grogan, Edward Peeln-11. :Mr George B.
Solid, Jame. lialiord,S r Gerry Pinat, Francis
!Lakes George Ball, Sir Suljanan Pilkiughoo..JAMle
narrow, Wiliam 11. Hard...tie, Joaeph A. Panda; t% ibises U.
Stair, Stephen Mantle, .klevaoder Postal, Metvillo
Blake, Martin J. Denby, Joweia W. Power, IN.
il oar, Thomas W. Hepworth, Lawrence Poorer, Nicholas
bright, John Higgins, George G. Prinoep, Henry T.
Snore, William Ilothoon' WiLiem N. Morally, Colonel
CATCW, W. I/. I'. Uortiby, John Ituahmi, Capt.
Chichester, Lord J. L. Unthion, Lord Italwer, Colonel
i Modem Richard Iluinpliery, Mr. AM.. Schisktielil, to illi to
Cola, 'lent,. B. Jackson, William Scully, Francis
Coal nod, Mr. Ald. Jennya, Earl sitiney, Mr. Aid.
Crawford, W. S. Jones, Captain Sotollett, Alexander
Limas, Wiiligin Kershaw. James Spooner, Richard
istall, thoptnin king, Hon. Peter J. Stasolry. Edward
Drionilion 3, WWI. Lacy, Seery C. Sotanhy, lion. E. U.
Duckworth, SirJ.T.B. Lennox, Lora II G. Strickland, M., G.
11-.8, George S. Lindsey, Ikon. Cul. Sullivan, Michael
Du can, George L cite, Joseph Thiektiowe, Ralph A.
Itunemobe, Hue. A. lo.kh irt, Al an E. Thompson, Colonel
Dumber, lb urge Lovcden, Pi yin Tyler, sir Georgo
Dunne, Colonel Lusloinnfoo, Ciaorles thiquitari, Ikon'
kdwards, !leery MAW •nrie, W. F. Verner, Sir William
Evelyn, William J. Mackie. John Walnington, 11. S.
Swart, William Illacolghttn, Sir Po Wakk7, Thomas
Pagan, William Meads r. Thomas Wahnsley, Sir Jaime
Velar. a, toward Mangles, It. D. %Max, B. M.G.
ri aim, William Manua., Lord John Niiimine,golai
Vurilyee, Alex I). Mike, William Williams, William
Fortescite, llon.J.'W. Winer. Witham M.E. Willoughby, sir U.
Fox, WiiiiIIIII J. Mir h_ll, Thomas A. Wohnomie, E.
Firemen. Charles it. Mulaworth, sir Wm. W)rin, IlnrbenW.W.
Fuller, Augustus E. Moore, George U. mums.
Gib...A, twit.. I. XL Masan, ()oar.. Duncan, Vicomet
Goddard, A. L Morris Duval Moue, Joseph
0115.
Adair, Robert A. 9. Grey, Ralph W. Pinney, Willem
Anson, HIM. COI. Ilallyburton, Lord J. 11.4V.1011, Cot.
Amara*, sir A. Ilanalon, Lord Claad 'Lipton. boo. W. J.
Arnotrumg. stones IL Barn., Itichaid Ricardo, ()nom
Baines Rt. lion. M. Blot iholl. Rt. Ii". J. for. ',Award es.
Wong. Rolls. Sir I. Ham., Benjamin Rich, Ileory
Raring, Thormis Merlon, "nos. E. Richards, Rich aid
Bedew, Richard 'Raincoat, John 'tonally. Sr John
Lerkeley, Admiral Heywood, James Rowell, ..tord Jain
lath, Ssr 'Dior. B. Illi.filey, Charles Re 1.184 lion. it. S.
Kirin, lion. Colonel 'hideous.", TA .11110 B. sanders, Jusi ph
Brockman. E. D. 'lodges, Thomas L. Seymour. lord
Brothenon, Joseph lloward, lion. C. W. finnison, John
Banbury, Edw. 11. Howard, lin. E. G. G. Smith, lit line. R. V.
Busfeild, WlBlB.Ol Kildare, Mao qui.% of Smith, John A.
Sumo., Sir halm.. N. Lgamenern,ltcHn II Somers, J. I'.
C inlvrell, Edward Lanrstoo, James 11. Somerville, Sir W.
Cooley, Edward S. Leeches lion. W. S. tiparui .n., Henry J.
Clay. Jam 5 Lawler, lion. R. It, Stag nil, A11g..1.
IiCRICIIIA. lion. C. 8. Lemon. Sir Charlet Stonier, lion. W. O.
i leek, Mr Goirge Leonard. Thomas B. likoolletd. W. It. C.
Clifford, theory M. Lewin. Georitee. Stuart, Lord Ja112...4
Cockburn, sir A. J. ?Mckinnon, W. A. Teemed, Henry W.
Colebrooke, Sir T. E. Mahon, The WO. Thomely, Thorn .11
Cowper, lion. W. F. Matheson, Alex. Townley, J ihn
Craig, sir Willi:mei. Matheson, i monel Townley, 'lichen' G.
Dawson lion. T. V. !Saute. lit Horn Fox Townshend, Captain
Douglas, Sir C. E. Mel/bind. Viscount lruni,n
arill,ti,
ieirgtu.
ILe
Dundee, Admiral Idoffsit, crags T
hbrlngton, Viscount Morays, Lord Wall, , harm B.
Ellis, John, Ogle, mane C U. Wattles, Colonel L.
ERat, lino John E. 1..i111, Sir John V.18141131/011, Sir U.
Krll.l, Wiliam Part, Lord Attend Wilma, James
Fergus, John Paget, Lord it serene Wit. on, Mathew
Ferguson, Sir RoU.A. Palmendun, Viacom.% Wood, Sir Charlet
"baiter, Matthew Par ker, John Wrightson, Woe, B.
Prey stun, Co: soul Patten, Jam W. Wyvill, Mann Mule
French, F.txstephen refl. 08WWI
6 .uleurn, lit. eta. U. Pentium.", K. W. W. Uptona, Air.
Greene, Thomas ?erica. Robot Hill, 'mid *mem
1 Grey, Rt. kin. Sir G. Pew, Samuel N.

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30 per cent. on tl._. branch of s___ __ _ _ ....e, general principles • -
to them. His noble friend ..- . nut come to
which consists mainly of rents. The gross receipt their adhering
for the royal foreg.,,, in 7 years were 271,663 L any conclusive decision on that subject, or laid down any
The sum includes the
produce of the mines in Dean Forest general principle how it was that the crown property should
for the six years 184243 to 1847-48 inclusive, which be managed. For his part, he (Lord Seymour) thought that
may be taken at a net sum of say 21,000/., leaving they must be guided and go by the reports of 1793 and
the produce of the forests 251,5631.; the expenses during 1794 if they would know how it had been best managed.
the same period amount to 274,9891., showing a clear loss of When he first went into the office he had made some inquiry
23.426/. during seven years on a property of the value of 2 into the law expenses, and had found that they were really
millions. The gross receipts for the royal parks in seven enormous. But when he found also how muck crown pro-
years are 191,308/., this sum including 72,000/ secured from perty had been recovered which, under former manages
the Duke of Sutherland for the sale of York llouse, applied meat, had been lost, he could not but ace that
to the formation of Victoria Park. The expenditure in the there were some grounds for the litigation that SeEAMENs, NITAGE,,, IN Til_ ~
parks for seven years (1812-43 tolB4B-49)i5660,442/.,showing had brought on these costs. Ile felt it his duty .. .
will
in the 7 Years onlya AORTHERN rORTS.—
strike among the sailors in the northern ports of England
a surplus expenditure in the parks in that prenatal 449,144/ to oppose the motion of his noble friend, because, in at be recollected that one of the objects of the late
about 32 per cent. of the whole revenue the first place, he thought it would be ineffective and that
collected has reached the Exchequer; and in one year 1847-48 parliament could not control all these minute details and was to obtain an advance of wages, the demands made by
only 18 per cent. of the sum collected reached the public ACCOUSll—(hear)—and therefore that it would not be possi. the men being as follows : 41. 10s. per month from the lot
purse, viz., 61,000/. paid in out of 3141,409/. collected. The ble, practically, to curry out the resolution proposed by his of October till Ist of April; 3/. 10s. from Ist of April till Ise
gross income of Woods and Forests for 1848-40 was noble friend. Ile thought the better course would be to of October ; and 3/. and small stores in the Baltic and
381,275/. Ss. Id., the grass expenditure 207.4841. 10s. 8c1.; divide the office of works from the office of woods, so that American trades. The owners of vessels ready for sea gave
, the surplus income was 132,7/0/. 14s. rml. Amount the expenditure would he under the control of parlia- these wages rather than detain their vessels ; but the ship-
paid over to the Exchequer in part of the surplus income ment. His noble friend at the head of the govern- owners of Sunderland as a body have now determined to
of the year 81.1001.; leaves unaccounted for, 41,789/, merit had given a notice on the subject at the commence- lower the rates. In order to keep up their wages, the s• to
The gross income of Woods and Forest. in 1849-40 was meat of the w.sioll, and he (Lord Seymour) should men of that port had formed a nip their
association, sec A.
is. 21.; the grow expenditure, 192.102/. 17s. Ild ; now move, as an amendment to the resolution pro- latest by certain rules, one of which was, that in the event
surplits income, 156,9941. 7s. 3d. Amount paid over posed by his noble friend, fur lease to bring in of the owners refusing to give the above rate of wage*, the
to the Exchequer as surplus income, 200,0001. Paid a bill to make provision for the better management of the memlwr of the association so refined should he relieved
ever more than received, 43,006/. When they came Woods and Forests and the land revenues of the crown, from the funds of the association ; another rule is, . that
Ito look further into the matter they Caine to an and a better direction of the public works. (Hear, hear.) no member of this association shall sail in any ship belong-
item of expenditure which threw all others into the The question and amendment were then put. ing to this port, the crew of which also belong. the port,
shade, and which he would read to the house. It wan Mr. HCME desired to see accounts of income and expen. unless the crew are all members of this, association ; and
extracted from the appendix to the report of the committee diture tu be.uill upon the table, in order that the house that if a strike takes place fur wages in any port in the north,
of 1848, and which contained a return of the law expenses might be able to judge when the bill WAS introduced and the owners of such port apply to this port for seamen,
paid to the solicitors of the Woods and Forests in seven whether it was adequate to it. objects. each member pledges himself that he will not go to man the
I yeas. It WY. liafullo.•:-111 the years 1842, 9,1321. Sir B. HALL, after. complimenting his noble friend ship, of such owners tu the injury. of the crow of. the port."
Us. Id. ; 1863, 9,7631. 2s. Ild.; 1844, 11,5211. Ils. 3d.; upon the clear and admirable manner in which he had An important meeting of the Shipowners Society of the
1845, 8,279/. 3s. 8,1.: 1846, 11,kkV, 6k—total in five Tears, brought the subject before the house said ha should Port was held on Friusy, when a committee which had been
50,0031. 0,. Ild.; 1847, 1.1,6*.q. 3s. td.; 1848, 11,5002 like to refer to a few words which had fallen appointed toeuusider the question of wages reported that, in
Is. hi.: total, 79,241/. is, 4.2 This was the amount paid from the noble lord the Chief Commissioner of Woods their opinion, " the wages required bythe seamen are far be-
to the London solkitor alone, besides which there were other and Forests, in which the noble lord had ob. yond what the present freights will enable the shipowner to
hills in Edinburgh and Dublin, that in Edinburgh amount- served that be was answerable for the management of , Pay ; that the effect of the combination will be to restrict
Mg to about 3.0001. a year. be-dries bills on other places. that department fur a short period only . during which he . trade, and thus operate to the injury both of employers and
Parliament had had no opportunity whatever of inquiring had presided over it. Holding the position which he (Sir i employed, and that some effort ought to he made to eaect
and deciding whether it was right or wrong that those enor- Ben) mein 11411) did arta miropolitan member in the house, .an arrangement for a fair and reasonable rate of wages,
moos MUMS should have been expended in legal expenses. his duties had given him opportunities of obleraing the 1 such as the shipowners may be able to pay and the seamen
Then he found that einisiderahle expense had been incurred manner in which the noble lord conducted the department, , ought to be content to receive. That your committee rerom-
on account of a law suit with tho city of Leaden roes- and he felt bound to say that he had never seen a public I
mend the following scale, vie.: 4/. per voyage in winter,
menced in Feb.. 1314, and still p2iug on, relating to tie bed officer more anxious to prevent the continuance of the ; extending from the let Novena), rto the last day of Fel ornery,
or soil of the Riser Thames. He contended that annual abuses which existed—(hear, hear)—Or more anxious to . and 3/. per voyage from the I.t of March to the 31st Oc-
estimates of these items should be laid before par- remedy them. It there were sly particular words or : sober for the London trade. The west country rates to be
liament so that parliament should have the op- expressions in the motion to which objection could be taken I 7s. fal• per voyage below the London rates. The American
portunity of supervising them, and expressing their in point of form, these might he modified; but he (Sir H. I Baltic, and Archangel rates, 21. Lis. per month, and small
opinion. The propriety of the charges which he bad Hall) thought the house should adhere to the substance of stores. That the voyage to Hamburg be equal to a London
cited as harks; been incurred in these instances might be the resolution, in order that they might have an oppose I voyage, and 10s. additional." The recommendations of the
unquestionable ; and if they were correct, parliament would tunity of inquiring into the gross ruismanagemeut of this committee were unanimously adopted by the meeting, and
no doubt base mad!, provision for them, if they had been ProOvrty, and make it valuable to the crown and the country ; a deeintation of the shipowners was appointer to confer with
consulted, sad their authority applied for, as it ought to as tar as it was practicable to do °°. the women with reference to the matter. This deputation
have been, lefore those expenses were incurred. But the Sir H. WILLOUGHBY adduced many instances of ice- 1 rn.t with a deputation from the ,amen in the afternoon,
house on h: to look with coneiderable jealousy at the exist- providence and waste in the past system of management, ' and the resolutions of the shipowners having been laid be.
core of this power of incurring and defraying expenditure, and stated that 1,200,0001. value of lands and property bud I fore them, they
consi undertook to submit them to a meeting of
however discreetly it might be used, without its sanction. been sold, the money being laid out unprofitably, or lett the seamen for deration.
The existcace of such a power WWI inconsistent with the almost wholly unaccounted for. There were very large GLASGOW, PAISLEY, AND GREENOCK RAILWAY.—
full and edlcient exercise of that authority which was vested sums at stake, and a deplorable lack of checks and respell. Traffic for week ending March B.—Amount, 1,034/. Is.;
by the xestitution in the House or Lommons alone. ability. corresponding week in 1850, 9821. 4s. 3d.
He wood trouble the house with only one fact more, that Viscount DrNCAN said it was not his intention to de- GLASGOW AND SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY.—
from 1832 to 1548—aixteen years—property which had tab the house at that hour with many observations. lie Traffic fur week
ending March 8, 3,6081. 17e. 14.; corns-
been mouninett to the meted; and guardianship of thought, howercr, that his noble friend (Ural Seymour) pending week in lest year, 8,1111. Sn id .