The Express.
London, England, 1847-04-13 00:00:00

PUBLIC BUSD.:E.S..

PETITIONS.—By Mr. icignia;;;,lr7.n Aberdeen, in Liner of
the Scotch Registration Bill; by Mr. Loran ear, revere.' petition.
against the momure.—By Sir G.. CLIME, sin petition", and by Cot.,
GORDON emeral, from places in Aberdeenshire; by lord G. Be,
from ores'', Wier in I erwicksbne end Perth; from chairman
of local board in Aynbire, and mbooknestere and meekest clerks of
Elgin, to seine effect.—By Sir G. Srarwron, from Parch= ; S'r T.
TUX BILIDOIN from Deal; by Mr. TaeLmrsur, from Tavislock ; by Dr.
Bowel., from Bolton; by bard A year, from • place to Bedford-
shire; by Lord G. Brarnscs, from Lynn; by Mr. W. WiLusam,
from a plane near Coventry, spinet the government scheme of edu-
collat.—By Mr. ferat-rr, from 1,400 merchant* and traders of Glas-
gow in femur of the Railway BilL— By Lord C. Russau, a petition
to favour lof Sabbath observance In coeninkm with railways.—Dr.
fersaLvo, from Newport, lab of Wight, from a peace mckty, in
favour of arbitration instead of war.—lly Mr. Mae, from *
lion of Halilingtot, apnea the inventory etarep-ter..—ByWri.
Lou., several petitions from serious place. ermine' the Catholic
Retie: Bill.—By Dr. BOIMIN4 from the Cork ArithSlavary Society, ,
tampialateg of tar total Mara at tar measures titan for Magmatirm
of the African slam trade. . .

REAlli;is.-13111 to regulate the dates for payment of rates
and taxes by parliamentary eleelbra.
SECOND BRADlNG.—.Esebenner Rills (11,310,700(4
(X)MMITTEE.—Pri AIM (irtLind; MIL
BRPORT.—Army Service Bill.
THIRD READlNOtt.—llarbrairs, Docks, and Pier Camara ; Port.
Lind Harbour of Refuge, Re. ; Bllb.
'• "

NOTICES OF MOTION.-Coot or roman Biu.a.-I,lr. Hens,
tomorrow, to more for leave to bring in a bill to enable the Speaker
to appoint examiners an the bills of coats of prirate bills.
VAORANCT ix I arione.—Lard I. Rt,,.1.1., On Thursday neat, to
more to leave to bring Ina bill for the suppremion of vagrancy in
Ireland.
______NEW MEMBER.
_ _ _ _ . . . _

Lord C. RUSSELL, haying been introduced by Col.
Anson and Mr. O. S. Byng, took the oaths and hie seat for
Bedfordshire.

WASTE LANDS IN IRELAND.

Mr. LABOUCHERE postponed his motion for leave to
brio in a bill on this subject, from tomorrow (this day,)
until Tuesday next.

CffIuMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

On the order of the day being called on,
Sir H. DOLTOLAS moved, pursuant to notice,—" to call
attention to the CUM of medical officers, surgeon., and pay-
muter, of regiments, who have not been included in the
warrant of July, 1846. for an improved retirement to a
limited number of medical officers, and all officer. of regi •
mental staff, to extend to them, in limited numbers, the
benefits conferred by warrants dated 1840, to limited number
of officers of all other branches and arms of the service."
The post of this alteration would not at first exceed 1300/.
a-year ; and it would he, in effect, self-sua:aining. In 1810,
• warrant had been issued. granting full pay to 20 lieutenant-
colonels, 20 majors, and 113 captains, in the cavalry and
infantry. This boon was soon afiervrards extended by war-
rant to the artillery, to engineers, and the marines, and their
promotion in the service was allowed to go on, which was
not the ease with the cavalry and the infantry,--a distinction
that ought not to be made. It was subsequently done away,
but the alteration was not extended to quarter-masters, veter-
inary surgeons, regimental surgeons, and pay-masters. He
thought this a distinction which ought not to be made; and
in 184 L, he had brought the subject under the notice of the
house. This proposal was not objected to; and he believed
the late Secretary-at War had recommended that it should
be taken into consideration. L.s.t year, a warrant had been

issued, extending the retirement to quarter-masters and
veterinary surgeons, to the amount of five-sixths of their pay ;
but.this kad not included the medical officers and the pay .m as
He now proposed that those officers should be included.
The full pay of these officers, after thirty years' service,
was 22e. and 22.. ed. a-day ; and he proposed that
the retirement should be five-sixtbs of the full pay at pre-
sent it was only Ms. The measure would be self-sustaining ;
far the retired officers would be succeeded by officers re-
eeiving only 12a. a-day. At present, these officers naturally
dung to the service, as long as they possibly could, to avoid
retiring on the small sum of 164- a-day. Here the hon. and
gallant member read a list of old officers, who had been
upwards of thirty years in the service, who were prevented
from retiring by the smallness of the allowance. With re-
gard to paymasters, who incurred very great responsibility,
they were placed under gnat disadvantages in retiring; for
if they had purchased their commissions, they were not
allowed to sell them. After extending the improved retire-
ment to quartermasters, the house was bound to grant it to
the paymasters. In behalf of the medical officers, a still
stronger case might be made out. Though their commis-
.ions were not purchased, they had invested large sums in
their education, and were bound to keep themselves up
to all the improvements in medical and surgical science.
Though other officers might cling to the service to an ad-
vanced age, the surgeon could not do so when his eye and
nerve began to fail him. From the list before him,
derived from an authentic source, he found that
several of these officers had been in the service for periods
varying from thirty-five to forty-five years. Unque::-
tiouably the majority of these men would prefer to retire, if
they could have a retirement of Its. a day. This measure
would not only be a boon to the officers, bat a benefit to
the service ; and he did not see how it could be denied to
the medical officers, after being granted to the veterinary
surgeons. Though the regimental surgeons were made to
rank with captains, staff-surgeons with majors, and deputy-
inspectors-general with lieutenant-colonels, yet, not only
were their retiring allowances smaller, but the allow-
ances to their widows were less than these to
the widows of lieutenant-celonels, majors, and captains, in
the proportion of about three to four. He had received a
mass of correspondence on this subject, from which he could
easily select many cases of hardship on officers' seldom*.
Sons of than were read by the hon. and gallant member.
The Mims ef the medical officers in active service were of a
taut paid nature ; and this consideration ought to infin-
IMO tae government and the house.

Mr. F. 'MAPLE said that the offiotrs alluded to were a
most meritorious clam. The warrant of 1846 bad extended
the benefits of retiring allowanoes to a very considerable
degree ; and he looked with great diffidence on any applica-
tion fore further extension. He was unwilling to disturb an
arrangement made so lately as in 1846. As to the paymasters,
he thought no fault could be found with their full pay, or
they might find fault with that of any class of officers in the
army. Though the duties of a paymaster involved consider-
able attention, he ought not to be put on the same footing,
in regard to retiring allowances, as these who were called on
to risk life and limb in the service. Previous to last year,
their retiring pay had only been 12s. 6d. a day ; it was now
increased to 15s. and there were other advantages, by their
being allowed to include in their period of service the time
which they had served in a lower capacity, and thus to arrive
mere speedily at the period of retirement. It would require
a very strong case to be made out to justify a departure so
soon front the Lite warrant. The case of the surgeons was
more worthy of consideration. These were undoubtedly
called on to perform active duties, and to face casualties,
which paymasters were not called upon to do. But they had
advantages, to a certain'extent, which the paymasters had
not. They were allied to a service in which there was •
stream of promotion running up, though slowly. With the
surgeons there was a regular system of promotion from the
lowest to the highest. When they took into consideration
the subject of retirements they must also look at the public
finances of the country. He did not think that the object
which his hon. and gallant friend had in view when he pro-
posed for them a higher class of retiring pensions would be
gained. He did not wish to eater into any question which
would lead to a discussion 49 should
--sees t . .
date that ...vernment had batty aispob uon ro piece
matters with reference to the army on • liberal and a fair
footing. Her Majesty's government had already within
this year, given 50,0001. for the benefit of the army for
retiring pensions, and had devoted 20,0001. to the brevet, by
which carious officers of the army had been benefited ; thus,
70,0001. had been placed at the disposal of the army, and
expended by them during the present year, leaving out
what may yet be done in that way. The right hen. gentle-
man concluded by assuring his right hon. friend that so far
from his desiring to throw any obstacle in the way of the
case which be had brought forward, be was desirous that he
should depend upon it that in regard to any arrangements
that ought to be made in the various branches of the army,
the claims of the surgeons and paymasters, or any other off'.
eon would not be neglected if founded on justice, and con-
trident with the finances of the country.
Mr. HUME was of opinion that the measures which had
been introduced by the government, all tended to the benefit
of the army ; but he thought, nevertheless, that the money
which bad been given for the brevet was thrown away, and
was only calculated to increase the follies of the higher offi-
cers of the army. He did not agree with the Secretary at
War, in thwhing that this was not a matter which ought to
be discussed. He wished that the right hon. gentleman
(Sir H. Douglas) had moved for a copy of the warrant which
limited, the number of retirements, whereby the number of
thew benefited by it would be shown.

Col. LINDSAY agreed with the right hon. gentleman
the Secretary at War, in thinking that the government did
all that they could for the benefit of the army ; but he
thought that the right hon. member for Liverpool made out
a good ease for the surgeons. There was • difference be-.
tween the eases of surgeons and paymasters, inasmuch so the
latter generally entered the army at about the age of
eighteen, while the former were generally 23 years of
age, if not more, before entering the weir*, which rendered
it necessary for the surgeons to serve at least five years
longer than the paymasters before they were entitled to a
reevinge pemembernsion.
for Liverpool He fully coincided with the proposal at
th.
Sir D. L. EVANS said that he wee very glad that the
• ht hon. gentleman brought this mar under supeonet the Imam, soil he hit it his duty tport
the preptellits whirl was made by Was. St alibi ma at
the mato time help drawing the .viands of sere lea.
cadmium (who them* that the army were a mere unpro-
ductive mess, and that any money spent on them was en-
tirely thews away) to the feet that Mr. Me Culloch, •
political monoraist, whose authority those gentlemen, no
doubt, reopeeted, was of an entirely different opinion ; and
oleo that the Froth army, whole labour was nothing cam-

pared with that of ours, had more than twice the amount of
money expended on it.
Here the subject dropped.
Sir D. L. EVANS then proceeded with his motion for
en address to her Majesty, preying for an inquire into
the following matters, with a view to their correction if such
should be found beneficial :
I. The Treasury regulation respecting ration etepping In the colo-
nies, whereby the gmetoment drives a profit at the expense of the
soldier by the variations 1/1 the price of on :whims in several of thews
colonies, theme, to the treatment al the name stationed in the home
territories.-2. Whether the Treasury order or arrangement re-
rperting the liquor rations In Australia bas been of a diteadve
aid general nature, opplicable to other colonic., and eufficient, In the
Judgment of the commander-in-chief, to prevent any future probable
recurrence of mutiny from this max.-3. The propriety or emending
the 78nd chum of the Mutiny Act, containing a spreW provision fbr tbe
" wholeetoroe ",enaintecance of troom on a line of march in England.
no eimiborar proportionate allowance being made AN troops on the
same duty In Ireland or Sonland.-4. The case of the former pas-
sion., of the army, whoa petition have been lately presented to the
house, torn pleining of laving Buffered greatmthery and distress during
many years, owing to their having agreed 'a an inadequate
cOlaintitatioli of their pensions odhted by a warrant lowed from the
Wse-oglim in 1832. which they were, unfortunately, Induced to accept
delusive 'prOmisfal emana..;iot "gbari_
respecting .a.i2efi Daring been cancelled to the following sear.-5.
Tbetantiadco, again, In this year's estimates, of any vote beteg pro.
posed for improving the b =sok accommodation (especially with ve-
to the sleeping rooms), so requisite, in many instances, for the
health of the troops; and fur more suitable and decent quartering of
the married non-commtmioned oaken and privates.— O. The claim of
old peninsular officers, who have sold their commission'', to the medal
to be granted for that war.-7. The claim of the retired officers of the
hoe (cavalry and infantry) who, worn out by wettish or broken
health, occasioned by service with their regiments or on the staff,
hare Mort:Andy next:lied the retired pay offered by the marmot of
October, 19th, but who, thongh by seniority aufnciently eligibles
find themselves excluded from the last brevet, which in their
caw would have rod the country nthing, dtboogh they
see this favour extended to their brother officers almilarly
nitrated on the retired lids of all the four other branches of the Arr.
rice, namely, the marines, artillery, engineers. and navy.-8. The
;mordancy of gradually modifying (but math full regard to the Just
elatems of three at preen ct filling thew poets) the rules practically ob-
reeved foe more than a century in our arms, In selection for the re-
spomildecommand of regiments, whereby seniority and mosey, cou-
pled with influential connexion, are almost the exclusive grounds of
appointanent.-9. Why it is that general officer* of the engineers.
art and of the East India thimpany's army, who may have dla.
Mee by their ability and conduct, should be d
for appolntmeets oa the general staff, In whatever part
the world their services may be available.-10. The inconsistence and
injustice, both as respect. indlyiduale and the public, of the
warrant of th, Ist of May last, regulating the fray of the higher
dam of officers, which admits some as elotible to the showanor at-
tached to their rank, without the lord moot being required of meri-
torious conduct in peace or war; while It precludes others whose
oonepicuous and useful exertions before the enemy on many oren-
Pions may hare been repeatedly resoinni•ed by their cutahiaotiera and
the government.-11. The system of late years pursued in respect to
the Military College of Sandhurst, the only source of profeasiond
edsmtion provided by the British government for the officers en-
trusted with the discipline, guidance, instruction, and ultimately with
the commands-in-thief of our armies.

In alluding to the second question, the hon. gentleman
called the attention of the house to the meeting which took
place in the colonies, in consequence of the soldiers being
refused their allowance of rum, when it was discovered that
they were in the habit of disposing of it, and purchasing
cheaper aid less spirituous liquor. This meeting rendered
it necessary for the authorities to compromise the matter
with the soldiers, and give them 2d. or 3d. instead of Id., to
which alone they were originally entitled. In suggesting
the propriety of amending. the 72nd clause of the Mutiny
Act, be said that it was quite anomalous that such a provi-
sion should be made for troops marching through England,
while those in Ireland and Scotland were exempt from it.
It was true that they had their penny or twopence march
money, but that was no substitute for a substantial meal.
Referrinc to the case of the former pensioners of the army
(No. 4) hecontended that they were entitled to 10 or 12 year
stream, or about 2001. each. Ile claimed for them a fair and
equitable arrangement, and would not ease to bring their
came before the house until such arrangement was made.
On the subject of barrack accommodation which stood next,
he was sorry to find that the only additional sums proposed
were 5003. for wash-houses, to be distributed between 370
barracks, and 50001. for prisons. What was the state of the
barracks in the metropolis ? Why, the barrack-rooms were
33 feet long, by 20 feet broad, and 12 feet high : in such a
room 20 men and one or two non-commissioned officers had
to live—to eat, drink, sleep, clean their clothes, &e. ; there
were fire inches only between each of their beds ; there was
not the smallest provision for married men, but they were
obliged to sleep with their wives in the came room, and the
poor women were liable to be confined there, (hear, hear,)
and there were but nine inches between the bottoms of their
beds and the table on which they dined. (Hear, hear.) It
was true, in some cases, married men might be permitted to
have a lodging out of the barracks, but they were allowed
only three farthings per day to bear the expense of it. (Hear,
hear.) He was confident that the pension-list was increased
more by this neglect of the health of the troops in barrack-
rooms than by any other cause. (Hear, hear.) He con-
leaded that there ought to be small separate apartments for
married men, and also an apartment in wluch the men
could read, otherwise what was the use of barrack
libraries / (Hear, hear.) The country felt deeply
interested in the condition of the soldier, and he trusted that
he should see a supplemental estimate brought in ter the
purpose of providing proper accommodation for the men in
their barracks. (Hear, hear.) After making a few obser-
vations on the sixth and seventh topics, the hon. and gallant
gentleman said he would postpone the eighth, as the subject
was too large to be cursorily discussed, and he would bring
it before the house in a distinct form on some future occa-
sion. With reference to the ninth, he thought it was moat
unjust to deprive meritorious officers of the engineers, artil-
lery, and East India Company's army, of appointments en
the general staff. He need not say that General Pollock, an
artillery officer, had greatly distinguished himself in Lid*
and was eligible to any aprititment on the general staff
—(hear, hear)—yet he was precluded by the existing regu-
lation. Lard Metcalfe and Sir H. Pottinger—who both be-
longed to the East India Company's army—were honourable
exceptions to the rule of which he complained, and he hoped
they would not be the only ones, but that to civilians and
military men in India would be presented the same honour-
able objects of ambition, if they chose to come home—(hear,
hear)—and that they would no longer be considered utterly
ineligible for any appointment. (Hear, bear.) He only
asked this for distinguished officers. (Hear, hear.) The
hon. member for Montrose had on a former occa-
sion said that the expenditure to general officers
in this country was greater than in any other country in Eu-
rope. Why, he would compare it with that of France : we
bad but 51 generals on the staff receiving 177,000/. per an-
num, while in France there were 213, to whom 720,0001.
were paid ; and the hon. gent. forgot the enormous sums
which were paid for commissions in the British army, and
which, it had been said, saved the'country the expense of re-
tiring allowances; why, it had been computed at the last
brevet, that the general officers in this country had paid up-
wards of a million and a quarter sterling—(hear, hear)—and
Lard Fitzroy Somerset had stated, that on that occasion,
there was only ore-tenth part of the number who bad not
bought their commissions. (Hear, hear.) He would now
par on to the next subject, the inconsistency and injustice of
the warrant of the Ist of May, regulating the pay of the
higher clue of officers. It appeared by this warrant that
officers who served as majors or licutenant.colonels of a
regiment for six years were not allowed the minimum allow-
ance when promoted to the rank of general officers. He
thought it an injustice to the public to promote officers who
were not able to give good evidence of their fitness for a
higher station. But if they were promoted to the rank of
major-generals it was unbecoming to deny them the mini-
mum a'lowance which belonged to that rank. It was unfair
towards the public and towards the individeals themselves.
No leas than 20 officers were excluded under this warrant,
nine of whom were Commanders of the Batb. Some of them
had received severe wounds in the service, yet these men
were excluded and placed in the same boat with officers who
perhaps never commanded a company. He would only mention
one instance, thatof Col. P. Thompson, who had so much dis-
tinguished himself in the cause of free trade. In feet' person
under the present system might become a field marshal
without any other qualification than that of living long
enough. He would never cease to contend that those officers
who were promoted should have the minimum allow-
ance of the rank to which they were promoted.
With respect to the last notice—that referring to the
state of education in the College of Sandhurst—
he would may but little, as the bon. and gallant member for
Liverpool had given notice of bringing the subject of mili-
tary education generally before the house. Ile thought
that every person should undergo some examination as to
his capacity before he obtained • commission. At present
an officer was supposed to be intuitively master of his pro-
fession. The college at W002",e was intended for the
- •
education at use , who ...rt. in
service. He hoped that some means would be adopted for
the education of the children of non-commissioned officers
who distinguished themselves in the humbler branches of
the profession. There were 107 cadets in that college, but
in order that the Secretary-at-War should not be under the
necessity of asking for money, it was so arranged thee they
were the sons of gentlemen who could afford to pay 1231. for
the nine months they were at college. There were others
who paid 701., and only 20 of an humbler class who paid
from 201. to 301. He did not think that a knowledge of the
higher mathematics was at all necessary. A certain know-
ledge of them was requisite, but the time bestowed on any-
thing beyond that was quite wasted. [The hon. and gallant
member here quoted a passage from Adam Smith in proof of
the necessity of having the members of the navel and mili-
tary profusion well educated and prepared.) The invention
of steam had introduced a revolution in naval affairs. Steam
vessels could now carry the heavieet batteries, and afforded a
means for the rapid transport of troops,' circumstance which
was more favourable to a neighbouring country than to this,
because it was possessed of a more numerous army. Under
these circumstances he hoped the government meant to
address themselves most seriously to the national defences.
His opinion was, that they were not adequately on their
guard, looking to the character and policy of a neighbouring
power ; his conviction was, that adequate measures had not
been taken of late years, and were not even now taken to
prepare this country against some unfortunate catastrophe
which might occur from the want of preparation. (Hear.)
^-—• - - - -

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