The Express.
London, England, 1849-03-17 00:00:00

setaber et sees, ee reemmended by the mambas es
meal expediter*. This might safely be des whoa
s sae Remembered that W Bast Idle Compaq
mentabri net fewer ekes 23 waroteamme ia these wen n.
Oa the Paddle and Sesta Algernon statism lest year, the
lose meistaised was 26 ships, and 6,431 mu, eesebes kelt a
lass of meas. One MU of that amount would be ample
fee di me emcees, sod would be mere thea we had is
*op mynas to lad. or before emelaterfarenee is Median
et the Plate. This he west redeem by 10 ships end 1,700
maps At tees Cape of Geed Hem sad the ismea stades
swim ite ISM there were 18 Mips and 1,400 men. Lest
.ter MUM was 37 ships and 4,64 T men, sodas 460,0001.
be Bade war ha? seer terminated he woad redoes this
Ii en thou lte shies 11,3 3 men. The rides*. he would thus
eta would be 36 Mips and 6,000 men, rd
gat fins ohne' +wild then remain would be ample be the
postediee al B&W interests and British homer. (Hear.)
Abe • few obsereations hem Copt. 1111111.11 T in defines
•i tio lenges of the Navy, and he. Mr. 8. Ha sere,
women en impieved pines' kepis; the anal assesses,
Mt. WARD explaised. The sees me were kept is the
goal newer, and it our difficult to alter the symm.
Mt.OOBDRN.—Sir, I think hon. gentlemen
sight net to have %wield all elusions to the peso=
meemest--I think, the media's mismasgemest—di ear
awl depomishear, furee)—for I knew that emery
Mailed the emmmiNmm et last year, at whim I emcee,
nlt it daft imqweeden_that tiffs bid bees gram mime-
gegmieeld in the Maltreds. (Rear, hear.) llst I se her
wee *ilk MOO hes. sondem . oppeiss, that 1 de think,
Mee 14. *0 It pa melanin the most epees you mess
aielm I
r rev rodsmn to have • went el naismempeMent
sew. mese lig at el saimssegemeit, • lame of
them Mips is orinery—thees wasels whisk me to is
Is be used is seue Marw ; you mob make up yew
to that if pea 'maintain tles mama system. (Haan We.
Uses is a great want at =assailant is allgow
sesidishmeste at present. It seems to me, that th=
the setaldiskaent is, the ge Wee the waste. Ten e
do what you will in committees— get • gestramieb Able
la the matter of shipbuilding or my thing one, to ll• Abe
be the sem way m private indleiduals. Whom.)
And I guise sew Me that, if yea see to keep skips dine,
1 would nether have them in anther, than Moat. I weed
rather see them out d eaneatimies. idle and mks, then
egliting ; and who you talk delis evil of not 'timeless
Mips 'heady built, let me my that that is the smallest evil.
nib is the view of tha memsaity and la the matter of
Waal repeatte. (Hear, bear) Bat, at you will effect any
notesebk redaction in the cost of year navy, it mat be by
lga;akie7 up y minds toehasge the system and to content
me with • mailer establishamet. (Cheers.) And,
when I soy • smaller establishmest, I do act an • Ise ea.
sisat est. There is • great deal et misconception ea
Ws subject. There is asonfosion et ideas do saying that when
oe meek els smaller we are the advocates of • Is. efficient
eseedialimeat. That is a eanfotading of weeds t fee I be-
lieve it to be quite possible that you may have a mall sets-
blielunrat more edkisat than • large me. (Hear, km)
Now, I will take the American navy. There was a d
war, the frigate St. Lawrence, whissi arrived at Sou
sad will anyb dy say that she was sot • model of
mg judgment ? (Hear, bear.) Wei, but that wee a smell
speSmen of • navy shah does Mot oast the one-quarter et
what ror navy sets es; and therefore do not Ist m be em
nand by people who exclaim that we are for keeping down
the •ffiaimcy of the navy. I am for keeping it up;
and I will tell y u how • end it is the r. salt
of investigation 1 have midis into this matter. I would
pay our men and offiern better than they are new pea.
(Cheers.) I would ;ay them as mach is the Ammonia
pay their officers and sailors which is 30 or 40 per cant
more then we pay. I wend not have • ship more at ems
thee I sold keep ooestantly at work, bemuse is asessene
▪ u fa everything else, if you will keep reds is We-
ens, you will never fiat them efficient*. (Iletirdahlort
this it the nimbi in which I would carry oitt •
peas establishment for the navy. The hoe. mambo
la Gloucester speaks as if this was • esedien
whOh Sedum could not entomb. Why, it is a epodes
which we can hest entertain. If it were a gaieties af the
baildinr, or manning, or keeping of ships, I meld net give
say opinion Moat it ; but when you:come to the !modes of
how many won yea meta to have—what the size of your
poses establishment ought to be—these are erosions which
every civilian is as competent tar judge of as any nautical
ma. What do we keep up our present large establishment
fir? I sever heard that alums d as yet in such • manner
as to satisfy um We crose-exaMesd tee late Lord Outli-
ned en the subject, and his answer was unsatis-
factory. He fell ack on the political state of
the world, or something of that sort, but we could
net get a sp Slit reply from him. Many think you want a
kip naval force because it cannot be creet-d in • short time.
The right bon. captain opposite said on cannot set up mods
hie 'lupins. ThO meant to infer that you must keep up •
large establishment in times of peace, use you cannot
impress men in case of war. Now, at the bresking out of
the Fritsch war you bad. on the lb Jansen, 1793, in cent
mace 22 ships of the line, 41 frigates, 18,739 men. That
was heists the breaking out of the war with France. Oa
31st December. in the same year. after Alut,wer broke
set, you had 78 ships of the line, 101 frigates, and 76,666
mm. We hat an increase of 68,000 semen la lees than •
bet, • few months after the war broke out. (Hear.)
Lifilalleat captain (Captain Berkeley, we believe) says "by
impressaime" I admit you cannot have its est again
he if yea had year pre es-gang would be , and publie
Maim would saaation it. if suck a thing meld be justified,
It certainly would be when a man came to drag you hem
your home end force you into the service. No, you must be
Mlito pay men high bounties when you want them,
r•ht In the maim topay them as meek as the Am-
rime saved a omen,and by that metes you will make
the service p•;pular, adrather desired than shunned.
The right hoe. gentleman the member for Portsmouth says
it mast be • matter of meadow. Good betimes ! why ars
we brought here, or why is this sables. salmitted to se?
—Omar, hear)--;r who is respessible Ise voting this mosey ?
For if you vote the lumber ef men sew doweled, you
mem of nessuity vote the 6,000,0001. and aid to pay them
Well, than, we am impossible for voting this messy, and if
we he se goversurout will fall beet apes es tere and
Winn 119 of eessenting to the number et men ; jib se
my him hind the :umber ite Sheffield has taunted
the member far Hatton with nabs amen 10 or 12 years
Se voted he the number at ma demanded, without any
probst. The right hes. garleman said it meld be dem
with refastens to ether countries, and that he meld wades
lash embody it es that rebid ; bat he beget to give us
the fame: I suppose Amelia is one of-the esuatelse
dila he wished to semipro with this New lhold in my
heeds report of the searstary at the ream to the Anieriees
Nimbi ileitis the empesffitere melee 'Adobes& tar the am-
bg yam 1849 Md. we have ball a greet &sal lathe way et
mine manmade the Ica lhawite endAno-
dise Navies hem ME hePtiditte MI I new
Mies hes as peps: Ammiles womb Y eseemie•
Min, 47 (esly ems line-el4iWie ship en Moles anise, three
eases am ploye& as receiving ships) ; in ordinary, 21 ;ou
w smoke. U 79." While we have about 440. The
tided Steer it the maritime Seal that Ingised ass
he... She bee meads as large • trade with the eostinest
Imam es we have, end her meek are required nearly all
seer the glebe. I bear the me of Freese quoted by the
ken. mush* fee Sheffield. He has brought bread lessee
bike to J_sl large estimates ; beet I believe he has
Mali? exaggerated the state of the French navy.
I have here as send hum a French jeered, the
Clinitifefiennel, of thipesuaber 20, 1848, giving a summery
dthe actual sedition et the Freed navy. The article be-
elMilrlPl feed the naval the repel ceps of
thestablisk of
Nov...f
at 40
bies at line (24 Meat and 16 on the stocks), 50 frites
(MI diet sad 10 on the stocks), 138 vessels of an i faior
dem abet; 160 steam mewls (all Must), and two floating
balleries with hem 40 to 60 guas. Total 323 dips. In
November, 1846, the navy board, in order to ems-
Ihts the pretested eats es, had to mistrust
Meet 17 ships of the lime, 27 frigates, 85 inferior
bowie 32 steam beats, and 2 fleeting batteries. It
amesdrel seven years, and 93,000,0001 (3,700,00014 to
execute the weeks. The delay and the money were granted.
The year 1847 passed away in preparatory sameass. The
works is the manila were conducted slowly ad eenteselly.
The exposes were ill calculated, and the sem weed
be the mania el the operatives was exhausted be-
bee the ornsbmire of the works which bees wages were
hissed to someeint. TM money allotted be be per
ems d sabenn was eseseqesstly applied to the
permed et teems. Is 1848 the naval edmiaieratne
:reddisposed to body mere activity ad more
_ . A etatemenpt dm emersetions to be emend
Wag the resod ear le make up be last dam, wee Lid
lore the paid& The, reveistim et February took dank
mil the new govmmeent kit sight ef the navy in the add
tithe hffim a which sarremeM them. The French am
sew eosin al 24 sail of the Mae dam, 38 frigates, ad
IS steam ems& (Behan fi helps of the line, 12 regain IS
btseltimediammeemseneeettheirage. Of the 38 frigates them
ore M anisemed ; and deb@ 08 steembroM not more then
70 ses Offistivet. The situation et the Freed fleet n, in bet.
eash ft it was is the Ist of January, 1848. Al cos
Mb% led et Great Britain that of Frame in
88 tamed yid ether maritime psalm, it mime Mir
atimb. mad HIM 12 ships of the line and the 19 Modes
blesteek the hem* lest falls short at those al Sweden
ad. Ibined. Owtilthoosisa *sit observes that it Is
lidelellis the Pinsk beet met be improved dudes the pee-
111.4=bemmnik as the 'Odder of Fieasesese
ef 18,000 T
,000 f. (1,1100,0001 la the man
lbet sensessement has mod the .)
unmet
egeratives employed in the omsk
711.411, mhomynas of the Fresh petablishimst,t=ty.
"' be•Maelsema, as • TWOS why we Medd imamsear
151.., Ruda hoe elm made the bear y ine bowmen
mit le ear rival ? leery bug
_ mehmennist whespoke most
IsSitbe laws has said that ear maelibie
......,▪
_ifvevaecy of the seen &gm& mass see seel=
t; aed is it not well knows *0 Bomb lee as msr-
oretes ? She has fa the Bettie esd Bled
dm a few thossead men who sea eery be
mad mines, be half the pus they are hems
4. It Pens &vise the duty of eddies. But have we
bard as Mask from ROM* se is there a pos.
irwit =aim part with es aa • modelme stab ?
the um as between Rasta end Aim.
Ihte Jilt Amnia had sot a single war ship dad, end
bet our wee dashed between them, maid you net say still
ad Amiens wend men honey the Rusks lest U it
"Ilirsi set of her buboes. (11w, law.) Beirs-
✓n hoses fell well it is a quoins et seems& ;
rmes ham odes, these is no sessesity for ?Wag al=
. iffielmetber. Hem seembeie masay, " Oh, it is
men." Yes, but that lavolves a queens d
sIN SISI et 000,0061., edisiont to meet the views ef
hes. geallems, who went • removal d
Wald that duty,when we are vordr er the &styes seepeg the 'West*, are=
s' pew. We ought to lime
al we
he feels and other Mao:lose duties My hes.
Ism am have tally demonstrated the way in whisk yen mat
we these men without nay dame M em naval esperierbe

er effielesay. But they omitted one bet, and hen it is. By
• rebus ea the table of the house k spume that tor the last
ell years they have bad is an average 2,000 seen is the
River Plats, and ea average ef 10 ramie of for the
pupae of isterfaleg between two petty states,
whose pentodes would not equal that of some
Novas he the North ef Ragland. (Hear, hear.) Now, was
then use emit Mk as that ? bear.) I may be
taM that Himikk merchants sad 00111•11118 left for them ;
est that dotty me to blame for our interference la the
River Plats; but that does not justify the goverament
they have been snug in yleldiog to their request. If
Realist' merthaate sad womb make such unreesonable
musses, I would sell them that we don't keep ships of war
es kinks ia such seem; Het ft is too expensive a
=et and that we mass afford it. Then there is
We are carrying en our trade with China
et
an easesses national loss. Our annual export trade of
2,000,00 M to 3,000.0001., is burdened with me ezpesditare
of 400.0001. or 600,0001. a year. An bon. lumber says
000,0001., bat the expels t be our naval sad satitary tree is
at least what I have stated. Better for let some other
souk, bring your tea and take bask poet goods.
TIM r.ght hoe. gentleman, the sunhat for Portsmouth,
says, you most keep five ships ca the China
foam by treaty. But that was year own testy,
sad impowd at the point of the bayonet. (Hear, hear.)
There would therefore be no breach of faith in withdrawing
them ships. Leafed, the right hon. basset the member for
Tumor* told to ea • former swim that these shlpe had
bees withdrew., and the duty tried to be performed by
steenters; but tkt the ships were renewed, because the con-
suls told them it was neeewary. Than sank have ciivtir
bed advisers la wry cues. I can cos no
whaener la the ppvoroposd redaction of 6,11100 men.
Of .11 the • my ruses for keeping up the
present fors, that ad the hon. mentbse for Heliport
is the meet so. He would maintain, because et his mini-
doses la the noble load the Secretary be Posies Affairs,
sad because he wishes him to have • revise 40411121181110••
set up liberty and lastitutioes is all pub of the world. Now,
although II mush admire our institatisse, however I may
desire to amend them, I do not Sisk we should seed
them, like antes% ."to ether oeuntries pertiesierly
at the polar ef the bayous Sessiethfog bas bees
said of 1835, sad the right houssilk guiessa the
member for Portsmouth was very jaunty co the subject,
alleging Set it same be thrown over altogether. Bolt be
and the boa. masher be Sheffield say that that year pre-
sented • mere struggle for place alai popularity, and that
therefore the Mamies of that year ought not to be Mined
to, that He estimates bad bees Masi below the proper
f= and had aftarwasde She paspertionately Streamed.
sestaledy be sorry to Mime to a whig government
and make noshes excuse as that—(lesas); kr thegoverement
of the Doke et Welliegton was overturned ea the plea of
extempore., and the government of the whims established
in its place os the express ground of retreaSisist. Yet
they sow tarn rued sad say that the saving of 1836 was
not a legitimate one, that they sold of old atone, reduced
the estimates sojustifiably low,
_and that that year should
never be alluded to as a standard. I shall certainly never
sue to allude to it--(Sear, h. sr)—nor cease to advocate •
retire to the expenditure of that year—but I shall do to by
steps, and we have made one already. (Chun.) And with
that view I shall now vote for the amendment of my hen.
Mend. (Cheers.)
Capt. HARRIS was for some time Inaudible, owing to the
gement cries of " divide." He said, it was true prudence en
the pert of this country always to have regard to the Sete of
the French navy. The hon. gentlasea who spoke last had
not stated the number of men in that navy ; for this year it
was 20,000 mu and 11,000 inseam ; sod, with that force,
they could, is a kw we ks. fit out a largely increased fleet.
He was opposed to the usum of impressment, sad hoped
the Lords of the Admiralty would consider some well-di-
gested plan for manning the navy is ease of war. This was
• subject in which he bad taken much Interest and In refer-
ence to which he had communicated with the late First Lord
of the Admiralty. The mobile lord under whose administra-
tion the affairs of the men had been so well managed, had
favourably entertained his plan ; and he hoped
the government would not allow this year to
pees over without something being does The basis
of his plan was to render every man in the country
liable to service in ease of war ; and be thought that would
be much preferable either to the system of impressment or
the plan proposed by the right hon. baronet near him. (Cube
of " Divide.")
SIBTHORP asked when it was likely that the dis-
union as to the eateries of the Lords of the Admiralty would
come on, as it was his intention then to propoes some redac-
tion. (Laughter.)
Col. THOMPSON said he bad no doubt he should be ex.
pseud to vote for the monotheist, and he should do so.
(Hear, hear.) He was fully onnedent that the government,
it they chose, could find the means of reducing 6,000 men ;
hut he must protest, both en his own coconut and se believ-
ing that to act in a contrary manner would not be
agreeable to any one with whom he was con-
cerned—that he did not pledge himself to all the
details which had been laid before the ;committee.
He alluded more particularly to what bad been said on the
subject of the African unedroo. He had strong doubts as
to the propriety of removing that squires. He believed
the spirit was still existing in the country which had led to
the employment of that squadron, and wkkh had produoed
all the measures conceited with it ; and be believed there
would yet be a defence ;lion that point. He could not alto-
gether approve of the way in which the coming report of the
committee bad been alluded to ; but he es 11/41 recommend
that report, when it did appear, to the earnest attention of
the house. (Rear.)
-- • - "

Capt. BOLDER.° said it was wen known that two-thirds
Milks troops ware empinyed in the °glade& If, instead of
reducing the navy by 5.000 are, soon relief could be given
to tke troops in the colonies by emple3ing the navy in their
transport, it would be very desireb

Admiral DUNDAS said that hoops were much more
cheaply ormveyed as the present eyeless.
Mr. MIME said a few words in reply to the remarks of
Cal. Thompson about the Miriam squadron. He was un-
ionism* to &ay that there wm any feeling in the country,
even ammaget the supeeters et the anti.davery cause, for
the maththeuse of that apisdrea.
The conunittee they divided.
For the vote
For the umathasat 69-86
The vote was the. @greed to.
638,6121. fir the expellees elms= and marines wu then
voted.
ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.
Col. ANSON said that as the Ordnance estimate, wen
and.. iseulderatices upstairs it would be premature to enter
late the detach of the vete. which comprised the sums for
the SWAMI of that department. But the committee must
be aware that It wee stesrary to take certain votes on
mouet to meet the Deer mums after the expiration
of the present Saud& year. Tbee, isetimee had been prepared
with a due mord to the etheiesey and exigencies cl the ear
vice, and with a strict attention to economy.
lb. HUME said be would set object to the votes being
taken on account ; but he mad pretest against the ob-
servation that they were mound with strict attention to
economy...

The following votes were then agreed to :-
350,0001. for the pay, allowanees, and contingencies of the
rdasses adlitary corps.
40,0001. kit salaries mad otatlngeacies of the Ordnance

150,0001. for the radium isffituy titablishments
sene and abroad.
70.0001. ter the wages of artificers and labourers.
160,0001. ix ordnance stores.
250.0001. for works, buildings, sad repairs.
45,0001. for the sciestille been*.
26,0001. for the non effective eerefers, military and civil.
The resolutions were then reported.
_ _ _

Lord J. RUSSELL said fiat ha would proceed with the
army estimates en Monday, and then, if they were got
through in sentient time, rith the navy estimates.

NEW BILLS.

Th. following Ulla I;t;eint;odaeei:
By Mr. BOURKE, for the bettor pplteurration of cattle
and thee", end tho more speedy detoetion of cattle and sheep
atealen to Ireland.

By Mr. 80THERON, to reHrretenante M rsek rent, hay-
ing a temporary interest is the loads Cr tenements, is re-
spect of rates leviable for ereetiag old providing county
hiss* mayhem
By Mr. ItiTICOLDS, to atom sad urged the law relating
to premedieds by eltoebseats is emits of retard he the city
of Debbi eat oars botoughs fa 'reload.
The bane eljsereed at queer to one.