The Express.
London, England, 1853-02-16 00:00:00

possible for the government to assent to any
other arrangement. The clergy went out to the
coleav in reliance on on act of parliament, and good faith
and tionour required that their rights should he respected.
(Hear, hear.) But, looking at the church of England, not
as a collection of individual clergy, but as Cu establishment
and as au incorporated institution, if they were asked to
maintain a church establishment in Upper Canada against
the wishes of the people of that mien'', he tor one would
shrink from acceding to such an attempt, and if they en.
gaged in it be felt confident that they would never issuefromit with credit or success. (Cheers.) lie was convinced
that the government were taking the right course, even in
the interest of the church of England itself. lie believed
that if a church had to encounter a spirit of anta-
gonism and jealousy, raised by a feeling that
undue partiality and favour were shown to it, it was
weighted with a burden for which no endowment could
possibly compensate. (Hear, hear.) The church of Eng-
land, he doubted not, would win its way in Canada as it
had done in the United States. Assuming that it were de-
prived of the existing provision made for it cut of the pub-
lic funds, it would derive its strength, not from the libe-
rality of the public, but, as it had done in the United
States, from the purity of its doctrines, from the sonnduess
of its teaching, and from the virtues which were illustrated
in the actions of its clergy. (Cheers.) With these obser-
vations he begged leave to introduce the bill.
Sir J. PAh.INGTON said it was not his intention to
oppose the present motion, and therefore it would not be
necessary for him to follow the previous speaker at any
great length. He had heard that gentleman's speech with
regret, but certainly nut with surptise, seeing that it only
embodied sentiments which since the opening of the pre-
sent session had been already expressed by the noble lord
the member for London, as the organ of the govern-
ment in that house. lie (Sir J. Pakington) looked ueon
the bill now sought to be introduced as a means of commit-
ting a breach of the national faith, and of depriving the pre-
testants ot Canada of property with which they had been
most solemnly endowed. (Hear, hear.) The hon. mover
admitted that in the recent elections in Upper Canada, tho
district maialy affected by this bill, the party who wished
to retain the clergy reserves for their present uses had
gained several seats, and that the gains had taken place
among the largtet constituencies in the province. These
were important facts, in addition to which it should be
borne in mind that even previous to that election the re-
preseutatives of Upper Canada were equally divided on the
question. (Hear, bear.) The lion. Under-Secretary, in
alluding to the Itoman catholic endowments of Lower Ca-
-1 nada, had said they were secured at the conquest. True,
they were, and the guarantees then given had been rigidly
respected. And why,then, should nut the guarantee, quite
as solemn, given in 'MO by the British parliament, be
looked upon as of equal value? Ile should wait, however,
until he saw the bill, and what means were taken to pro-
tect the interests of the church, which must he ample in-
deed to escape the charge of a flagrant breach of faith.
Before he sat down he would implore the noble lord, the
member for London, to look at the act of 1810, of which he
himself was the author. Let him recollect the peculiar
circumstances under which that act was passed, and how all
the statesmen of the day concuired in its adoption. It was
then laid down and admitted that before uttempting a
union of the two provintes all questions of religion should
be settled— a point to which the late Duke of
Wellington particularly alluded in his memorable pro-
test. Let the noble lord recollect the words of the
preamble to his bill, declaring the expediency of finally
settling the question of the clergy reserves, and their appro-
priation to the maintenance of religion, and let him then
reflect whether he, of all men, was not bound to respect the
rights of the church of England in Canada. With these
observations he should consent to the passing of the present
stage of the bill.
Mr. V. SMITH complained that the right hon. gentleman
had acted rather unconstitutionally in quoting the opinions
of any portion of the people of Canada against the regularly
constituted Assembly of that country. But—seeing lie was
member for Droitwich—he had acted still more strangely in
relying on the comparative populousness of a constituency
as a gauge of its political value. He (Mr. V. Smith) hoped
that when the question of parliamentary reform came on
fur discussion, they should have the valuable co-operation
'of the right hon. gentleman. (Cheers and laughter.) To
say that an act of parliament was irreversible was to saddle
hie noble friend below him with a new finality, besides
which the right hon. gentleman completely invaded the
rights of the Canadians to legislate for themselves. The
act of 1840 had procured ten years of tranquillity, but now
he believed that the people of Canada were in favour of the
secularisation of the reserves, and his opinion was that the
great principles of self-government demandial that the
question should be left to their decision.
Sir It. INGLIS was, not like his right hon. friend, in-
clined to wait for future stages of the bill, seeing that the
principle had already been clearly announced. They knew
that the measure before them was one enabling the
Canadian legislature to deal not with a religious prin-
ciple, but with property, the property of tho clergy. The
word " clergy ' was one of plain signification as regarded
the disposal of these reserves, and could not be misunder-
stood by the most ignorant and radical member of that
house. (A laugh.) The learned Solicitor-General who was
slumbering on the Treasury bench could tell his colleagues
that the word meant clergy of the established church. (No,
no.) Being of that opiate's, and hostile to the alienation of
their property, he hoped he should receive general support
in opposing the present stage of the bill.

Lord J. RUSSELL said that if parliamentary grants
were to be irrevocable, then was the act of 1840 an unjusti-
fiable interference with the act of 1791. But the right boo.
gentleman, the member for Droitwich, went further, and
had laid down in a despatch that if the irrevocable act of
1810 was not found satisfactory, it should be superseded by
another irrevocable act is 1853. The question was not one
as to whether endowments made by parliament should last
for ever, but whether parliament should adopt the rule
that all questions of local concern should be left to the local
parliament of Canada. (Cheers.) Now, on that question
her Majesty's government had no doubt whatever. (Cheers.)
They thought that they ought to allow the Canadian par-
liament to legislate on this and every other local subject.
(Hear, hear.) For his own part he should he glad it' the
parliament of Canada were contented with the settlement
of 1840, which was considered satisfactory at the time, and
which even now he thought might as well he lett undis-
turbed. The Canadian parliament might find that in dis-
turbing the settlement they were opening up new grounds
of animosity; bat, however that might be, he did not think
they were justified in opposing the will of the local parlia-
ment, who seemed determined to deal with this subject.
Look at the history of our legislation in Canadian affairs.
He could not think that parliament made a wise provi-
sion in 1791 in dividing the two provinces. (Hear, hear.)
By that measure the tree commerce of the two provinces
was prevented, and the differences of race, of religion, and
of prejudices, engendered such conflict+ between the two
parliaments, that Earl Bathurst was obliged to take the re-
venues of the colony, and distribute them without reference
to other legislation. The union, however, had remedied
many of these evils of a former time. Both parties had
yielded up obstacles to their mutual prosperity, and since
then Canada had made more rapid progress not only than
any of our own colonies, but than any part of the United
States. (Hear, hear.) They had exerted themselves har-
moniously, because they felt that tney had been dealt with
honestly by the imperial parliament, and he trusted that
the present bill would be an additional proof to them that
such mode of dealing was to be persevered in. (Cheers.)
Mr. HUME. begged to thank the government for the
course they had taken in reference to this question. They
were by this measure about to complete that system of sell-
government which alone could secure permanent peace and
tranquillity to Canada, and to ensure the continuance of
that prosperity which, as the noble lord had truly said,
commenced from the hour when responsible government
was first conceded to that important colony. (Hear, hear.)
He begged also to thank the hon. gentleman the Under
Secretary for the Colonies (Mr. F. Peel) far the candour be
had displayed in the very able speech with which he had
introduced the motion. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentle-
man might be assured that the sentiments he had expressed
in that speech would be received with great satisfaction
by. the people of Canada, as the enunciation by the
moister of the crown of principles under which alone the
colony could continue to prosper, and which he (Mr. Hume)
trusted would be speedily extended to all our colonies.
(Hear.) . He hoped his hon. friend the member for Oxford
University (Sir R. Inglis) would divide against the motion
aa he had intimated, in order that the feeling of the house
might be at once ascertained on that which was the main
principle of the bill—that of allowing the people of Canada
to deal as they pleased with this question of clergy re-
' serves' and with which he for one had no doubt that when
' they had the power they would so deal as to produce
peace and contentment to all parties in the colony.
The motion was then put and agreed to, Sir R. INGLIS
declining to divide, but contenting himself with meeting
the question with a formal " no."