The Express.
London, England, 1847-02-12 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 12, 1847.

Irene Mod Materially to the public convesiesce. At pre-
treat tb• .slanPollew weiw ars is 'Oda, to give to
their long.:journey inueentees the advantage of Speed, eo
neglect those who travelled only a shot sibilants*. and 111 to
competition. of railways bad driven all the coaches off the
road, this neglect was the eau*. of ,nairelt itheaveniesca.
He supgeattul that a regulation should Irevapdaby which
a certain number of stations for stopping on each line
should be established, and that at these stations there should
be a reasonable number of stopping treble. This might
be called an undue interference with the affairs of the com-
pany, but it was not more so than that which regulated
fares.
Mr. HUME inquired whether any measures would be
adopted to ensure uniformity and regularity in Sunday tra-
velling on the Scotch railways ? Nineteen town. in that
country bad had meetings to petition against the interrup-
tion of all traffic on Sunday., which the regulations esta-
blished recently by KIM of the railway companies had occa-
sioned. He thought also that third-close passengers bad not
been sufficiently attended to by the legislature as regarded
speed and certainty in travelling by railways. He hoped
the commissioners would turn their attention to this point.
Mr. E. ELLICE believed, from the manner in which his
right hem. friend (Mr. Strutt) had stated his case, that the
country might rely with confidence upon the good that
would result from the railway board. (Hear, hear.) He
wished, however, to be informed as to the course which was
proposed in reference to the railway bills now before the
house. Those bills involved an expenditure of capital to
the extent of some 40,000,0001., and it was important
that the parties should know how they would be af-
fected by this measure before they went before the com-
mittee.
Mr. STRUTT.—The measure proposed, so far as preli-
minary proceedings were concerned, would apply only to
railway hills of future sessions, and not to those sow bet,re
parliament. (Hear, hear.) Should, however, there be any
special matters in thee e bills upon which parliament might
require information, it was in their power to refer them to
the railway board, who would inquire into and report upon
them. But the questions referred to them should be kept
distinct from the merits of the bills, and if his right hon.
friend would devise some order of reference, to draw the
attention of the commissioners to those measures on which
infounution might be required, he should be glad.
Mr. E. ELLICE did not think such matters should he
thrown upon individual members. lie wish, d to ask the
Chancellor of the Exchequer whether government intended
to propose any standing order under which all matters
relating to capital end loans as to the railway bills of this
session should be referred to the board to inquire into and
report, in order that such report might be laid before the
committee on the HI before the clauses as to raising money
and capital subscribed were considered ?
Mr. ENTWISLE suggested that lime plan might be
adopted, by which, when two lines were brought under the
notice of , he board ,the public might be secured the advantage of
the best line. It might also be well, when the report of the
board was adverse to any line, that the parties should have
the power of appealing to the committee, upon payment of
a certain amount of costs, should they not succeed.
The aIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUEd would con-
fer with his right hon. friend (Mr. Struts) upon the subject
to which the right hon. member fur Coventry (Mr. E.
Ellice) had drawn his attention, and which he admitted to
be one well worthy of attention.
Mr. GOULBURN thought that great inconvenience
would arise from the facility enjoyed by railway companies
of issuing paper money nearly similar to the paper currency
of the country, and hoped the attention of the railway com-
missioner; would be directed to the subject.
Mr E. B. DENISON hoped the commissioners would take
into consideration the hills of the present year. There was
plenty of time for doing so, and parties otherwise inclined
to encounter the trouble and expense of a contest might,
upon a report from the board, be deterred from doing no.
Mr. FERIIAND complained that a railway was being
constructed in his neighbourhood which would have steered
level crossings on the turnpike roads, to the serious inconve-
nience, and perhaps serious injury of a great manufacturing
district, as at least 2,000 factery operatives would have to
cross these roads every
.day to and from their place of work.
He wished to ask the right hon. gentlemen opposite whether
the inspectors of railways had not the power to interfere so
fur with the company as to prevent the opening of the line
until bridges were made that would protect the public from
such inconvenience. He also complained of the power which
directors pesseasid of making private arrangements with
tenants in possession which robbed the tenant in tail. (Oh !) It
was nothing but robbery, and he called upon the legislature
to pray' rat it in all future measures.
Mr. HUDSON did not concur in his hon. friend's alarms
as to the consequences of level crossings, neither did he
concur in condemning the power of borrowing money
on loans, for if that power had been checked,
many of the railways which were now of such
benefit to the country would be yet unfinished. The right
hon. gentleman opposite spoke in his statement of giving to
parliament the power of revising the tolls ; but as the t ct
of that might be totally to destroy the divided, he hoped
it would be guarded by such a limitation as would not de-
prive the proprietors of a fair return for their capital. When
the right hon. gentleman introduced the question of punc-
tuality, be (Mr. Hudson) thought he would have referred to
the reasons which sometimes caused a want of punctuality,
because perfect punctuality was utterly impossible, and quite
incompatible with the present amount of speed. If enforced,
that amount of speed must be diminished ; for everybody
knew that it was operated on by the state of the atmos-
phere, the state of the rails, and by other circumstances
which made complete punctuality, with great speed, impas-
sible. It was the interest of railway companies to ensure as
much punctuality as possible, and considering the many
difficulties connected with the working of railways, he
thought it had been observed to a greater degree
than by any former mode of travelling. Parliament
might have the right to interfere by legislating en the
subject.d It had little to do at present— (laughter)—
an must amuse itself at somebody's expense ; but he did not
think by such interference with the commercial management
and enterprise of the country, that they were marching in an
onward direction. He was of opinion that the less parlia-
ment interfered the more would such undertakings prosper;
and that the more responsibility was thrown upon the direc-
tors the better for the public. The right hon. gentleman
complained of one company having raised its fares without
giving notice. He should wish to ask him was it intended
that a company should give notice when it lowered its fares.
It had been his duty to reduce the fares in several instances
during his connexion with railways, but be never gave notice
of the intention. The reduction was merely put into practice.
and if the case were reversed the same plan was pursued. As
to the inspection and superintendence of railways, bethought
it would be impossible to conduct it in a manner that would
be satisfactory to the right hon. gentleman, whose measure,
however, he admitted to be deserving of consideration, and
if not unfairly injurious to railway interests, should receive
from them such suggestions as were likely to make it accept-
able to all. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MANGLES complimented the right hon. gentleman
(Mr. Strutt) on the statement he had made to the house;
hut without committing himself to the details of the measure
he wished to introduce. He did not at all join in the fears
expressed by the member for Sunderland respecting the
superintendence of the railway board over the affairs of rail-
ways. He was sure he spoke the opinions of the directors of
the London and North-Western Railway, when be stated it
to be their anxious desire that such superintendence should
be exercised over them in the atrietest manner by tke '
government. He himself looked upon it as the only safe-
guard.
There was one point on which he wished for an I
explanation, namely, whether in the case of two competing
lines it was intended that the railway board should dis-
tinctly state to which of the two lines it gave the preference,
and on what grounds. He considered it of the utmost im-
portance that they should. He considered, also, that a great
deal of the mischief arising from over somlation lest year
bad its origin in the readiness with which that house threw
overboard the decisions of the Board of Trade. (Hear,liesr.)
Mr. STRUTT said the intention was to report fully open
every line brought before them, and In the case of competing
lines, upon their comparative merits; bat giving a decided
preference of one over the other must depend upon the cir-
cumstances of the ease, and the nature of the report thereto.
In answer to the enquiry by the hon. member fur Enema
borough, he wished to observe that, except by advice tad
remonstrance, they had no power to interfere with level crow
lugs made undo an act of the legislature, unless to this externs,
that if the directors should consent to alter them, the board had
the power to senction their doing so. With regard to the ow
vision of fares alluded to by the member for Sunderland,
he had merely said that the principle on which such revi-
sion ought to take place should be exactly that upon which
they were in the first instance established. He was desirous
of giving to railways a fair and clear advantage, bat at the
same time giving to the public the advantage a altered cir-
cumstances, and for that purpose he conceived that parlia-
ment should have the power of revising the fares. lie ad-
mitted the impossibility of punctuality under all circum-
stances, and all be proposed was that where great punc-
tuality had boa attained on the one hand, or where there
was a want of it on the other, probably giving rise to acci-
dents, an opportunity should be afforded of reporting these
facts to parliament and the public. (Hear, hear.) In the
event of • company lowering their fares, no notice would
be required.
Leath was then given to bring in the bill.
RAILWAYS (IRELAND) BILL.

the make of avoiding the contingent circumstance he
had spaded. to, and sehick would be by no means
desirable in the preenat• stabs of the country: ,but
the, noble lord'aroposition aot heel. g been met by a counter
proposal and seeing that it wu calculated to gem employ-
ment' asiil relief to many thousands of the Irish people—
fames') —.without any eventual loss to this, country—(hear,
hurl—sad without the imposition of any burden upon
Irish resources, he had no hesitation in tendering his sup-
port to the noble lord. (Haar.) Incited, he believed such to
he the disposition of • considerable number of Irish members
who, eenerslly speaking, were supposed to support the noble
lord. But what he was anxious mohair' was an oppmtunity of
consideriug this question on its rut merit, without its being
mixed up with any considerations of the existence of a
ministry, and apart from all probability of inflicting on Ire-
land the inconvenience and misery which would arise from
the interruption of Irgisla,ion at this moment. On these
grounds it was that he made this appeal to the noble lord,
and asked him to postpone the bill at any rate for a few

daidr. F. SHAW fully concurred in what had (alien from
his hon. friend the member for Limerick—(hear, hear)— I
and he cordi Ily joined bins in nuking the noble lord to post-
pone this measure ; and in doing so he would frankly state I
the feelings which induced him to do so. His opinion
was favourable to the scheme, and indeed always bad
been favourable to government undertakings in Ireland,
whether they were railways or not, and he had supported
the plan which was proposed by the noble lord the Chief
Commissioner of Woods and Forests, when he was secretary
I for Ireland. Ile had hoped, and still did hope, that the
government would take a favourable view of thin scheme or
adopt something like it ; but if the qui scion was put as it
was by bis hon. friend the member for Limerick, as an
alternative between the adoption of this bill and the putting
out of the government, -he was not prepared to closest to it.
Still he asked the noble lord the member for Lynn to po-t-
-pone the s.cond reading. Seeing what an awful calamity
had fallen on Ireland, he was not prepared to receive this
measure at such a risk as it would involve, although
his opinion was favourable to it. (Hear, hear.) He
hoped, if the noble lord consented to the postponement, the
result would be their seeing that the measure gained favour
in the country.—(hear, hear)—and when it had received full
consideration apart from party feeling, the government
would bring forward some similar proposition, such no had
originally been proposed be the noble Lord at the head of
the Woods and Forests. There would be nothing in such a
proceeding derogatory to the dignity of the government, and
he hoped that would be the effect of a postponement of the
bill now. He had stated his feelings candidly and frankly,
and he put it to the noble lord whether he would not post-
pone the bill, and he was in a condition to say that many un-
qualified supporters of the measure were of opinion that it
would he. an advantage if it was postponed.
Mr. GRATTAN said it was his intention to have voted
with the noble lord. Such a measure as this, was an
old debt due to Ireland, and to Mr. Drummond's memory,
as a person who took great I.ains to effect a plan like
it. All the officers of the government in Ireland, from 183 i
to 1847, had reported in favour of such a scheme. Thin was
a measure which would he a great saving of money to Eng.
land. (Hear, hear.) But there were two bills in progress—
the Destitute Persons and Poor Relief Bill— and the
people must be fed. He had received two letters that morn-
ing which gave fearful accounts of the state of things. It
was proposed to grant 1,500.0001.. but they would only take
credtt for 500,0001., for 1,000,0001. had been appropriated
already. How was this money to he given to the poor ?
through the means of the landlords. To this he objected:
for, though it might be beneficial, it would not be eapedi-
tioue. how, by the plan of the noble lord, it wan not pro-
posed to take 16,000,0001. at oree, but to appropriate a mil-
lion a month; and what would be required between this and
August would be 6,090,0001. Unless money advanc-d was
applied to remunerative employment, what chance was there
of setting A back? But, by the plan of the noble lord, it
might be recovered. The aristocracy of Ireland were gone,
so far as funds were concerned ; and they were reduced to
this because they lived in this country amongst individuals
i who led them into capenee. (Laughter.) It wan painful
to bins not to be able to support the measures of a govern-
, went whom ho liked better than gentlemen opposite, but as
he did not see his way through them he should support the
t bill of the noble lord unless the government adopted some

such plan.
Lord J. RUSSELL.—The hon. gentleman the member
for Limas rick, and the right hon. gentleman the member for
the University of Dublin, have asked my noble friend, the
member for Lynn, to postpone the bill which stands the first
on the orders of the day; and I rise for the purpose of put-
ting • prayer to him of exactly an opposite description. I
wish my noble friend would proceed with the bill which
now stands for a second reading, and if he should think it
too late tonight to proceed with it, I am ready to give him
priority over the other orders of the day to-morrow. But
what I ~o object to most strongly is that the bill should be
postpone- 1 for a fortnight, thus leasing the whole matter
in uncertainty—(lcer, hear)—leasing it uncertain what
plan the legislature intends to adopt, and what course of
action the government is about to take. My noble friend, in
bringing forward his motion, introduced it not as a party
measure—(hear, bear)—and he cannot say that I answered
him in a spirit of party : but I was obliged then, and I am
now still more obliged, to say what is the view I take of this
measure, both as regards general policy and the finances of
the country. We feel that we are responsible for the ma-
nagement of those finances, and the application of large
sums of money to the relief of Irish distress, and that we
must take care that it shall be applied in the manner which
in our opinion is the most efficacious, and which wiil enable
this country to be ready to give those supplies which are
necessary to meet imm diste pressure and urgent eases of
distress. I was obliged to say, and lam now cinder the
same obligation to say, whether the granting of 16.000,0001.,
to be laid out on railways, was consistent in our opinion with
that which should be the policy of the government of this
country. I cannot treat this as a small sum, or a question of
doubtful legislation, and not state whether it should form
part of our general financial policy; and, so long as I hold
the position in which I am now placed, I will not
shrink from stating whether it is my intention to adopt or
reject any plan which is proposed. I have no hesitation in
saying that this measure ought to be rejected. as it is not
consistent with the plan of finance which we think it our
duty to adopt. If the house should go into the considera-
tion of this question, my right hon. friend the Chancellor of
the Exchequer and my self will state the reasons for which
we have come to this conclusion. Bat, at present, all that I
have to ask of my noble friend is, that be will take one of
two courses; either to bring the matter to an immediate de.
cision, that the house and the country may know what is
the policy that is to be pursued, or to give up his plan for
the present session. I do not care which it may be. lem
ready to enter into the discussion, or, if he should abandon
the measure I will tell him that I am not ready to connect
the government to any scheme for the formation of railways
in Ireland, .or will I say that I think that in the present
01.111011 say large or extensive scheme on that subject will be
ea the part of the government. Ido not wish to
nerril any honourable member to vote against the mea
sure of my noble friend under the expectation that
we have any plan to propose. I will not say any-
farther, because I think that the plan pro-
W my noble friend (Lord Morpeth) in 1839 was
a who one. I have a fair right to ask my noble friend not
to listen to the proposition which hen been just made to him.
My noble friend heard the general nature of my objections
to the bill the other night, and upon that, the noble lord the
member for Newark rose, and said that it was the intention
of his friends to press it, and bring it to a decision. I have
no objection to that determination, and if the plan is ap-
proved by the house and the country, let it be adopted ; but
all I ask is that we may have the decision of the house upon
it, or that my noble friend will cease to urge it.
Mr. B. OSBORNE could not concur in the desire which
had been expo seed that the measure on the subject of Irish
railways should be postponed for a fortnight, because he be-
lieved that many great interests would be affected if the bill
was allowed to remain banging over. In common with the
bon. member for Limerick (Mr. 8. O'Brien) he (Mr. B.
Osborne) supported the measure, because he believed it to
be calculated to give immediate employment to the people of
Ireland. (Hear, hen.) The three bills brought forward
by the government would not be effectual without an exten-
sive system of useful public works, and unless this was
provided in the month of April the population of
Ireland would be totally unemployed. lie was led
to support the proposition of the noble lord the
member for Lynn, because he thought its adoption
would put an end to the wasteful system upon whisk the
expenditure of the public money was now carried on in
Ireland—a system which was draining this country of large
sums of money, and bringing odium upon Ireland and has
population. (Hear, hear.) On that ground he had lista***
to the speech with which the noble lord had introduced the
measure to the house, with feelings of great satisfaction, and
he (Mr. B. Osborne) should be prepared, in case the discus-
sion on its merits went on, to prose that it would be much
better to lay out the money in a system of public enterprise,
than in sending loans to the people of Ireland. He, there-
fore, joined his humble entreaties with those of the
noble lord at the head of the government, to the noble
lord the member for Lynn, not to postpone the
of his bill. (Hear, hear.)
I Perrt.t. %ERR was understood to object to any postpone-
want, and to say that he thought it bad policy on the part
of Irish members to preu
Mr. P. 8. BUTLER was always unwilling to trespass
upon the attention of the house, but thought it was:the duty
of every Irish member to communicate to the noble lord the
member for Lynn, their wishes on the question of post-
pavement. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) He was not die
plied to tell the eserets of the prison-house, and it was not
yls busineesteebie what had occurred that day at a meeting
whisk he bad, altaaded, in obedience to an invitation. (Cries
Oh, ob.") If he was tranagreesing, he at once bowed
tbs 4midas of the house, but he had a right to state whit
bad otearred afterwards. The Irish members met in cou-
ld've, and having entered into • long discussion, cam*
to the almost unanimous conclusion, that under all
the circumstances it would be advisable that the noble
lord, the member for Lynn, should postpone the eo-
cond reading of his bill till some more convenient opporte
nity. (Cheers and laughter.) That conclusion had been
conveyed in • respectful manner to the noble lord, and be
(Mr. P. 8. Butler) had been led to believe that the noble
lord had in a courteous manner stated that he was willing an
this most important question to be guided by the °pinkies of
the Irish members. (Hear, bear.) He (Mr. P. 8. Butler)
should not have risen if he had not seen the extraordinary
predicament in which the noble lord was placed—
(cheers from the government benches) when two Irish
members had asked him to postpone, and two had also
desired him to
.go on. He, for one, believed Ur mata-
sure to be emu-m.loy calculated to raise his aientry
from the abject state of misery and destitution in which oho
lay at the present moment, and if the noble lord should de-
termine to proceed, he should support the noble lord
though it would be painful to him to vote against a govern-
ment which he believed to have done its best to relieve the
calamities of Ireland.

Lord J. RUSSELL having moved that the order of the
day he read,
Hr. W. 8..0 BRIEN rose to requed the noble lord the
member for Lynn to pwtpone this bill. (Hear, hear.) As it
was only a week since it had been introduced it was obvious
that the public in Ireland had Lot had an opportunity of
summing their opinion upon it. It would therefore
be unfair towards them and their representatives to bring
lihe question to a premature decision. (Hear, hear.)
The government had, moreover, staked their existence upon
the issue, and if the house should decide adversely to the
view of the government, there would probably he a change
of ministry, which would throw into confusion the legisla-
tion in which they were engaged for the benefit of Ireland,
and which was of great and immediate importance to
the poor of that country. (Hear, hear.) There was
at present a bill before the hones upon the success
of which depended the existence of many thousands of
their fellow countrymen in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) And
be thought they were not at liberty, in order to obtain a con
tingent good, to risk the probability of such a low of human life.
lie had hoped that this measure of the noble lord would not
have been received or discussed as a party question. (Hear,
hear.) He had hoped that the noble lord, the member for
London, would have been prepared to consider the question
as one upon which it was not necessary to stake the exis-
tence of the government, but that he would rather have ac-
quisteed in whatever appeared to he the general wish of the
house, even though at variance with the opinion he enter-
tained. If the government would bring forward a measure
more desirable upon the whole then that of the noble
lord, the member for Lynn, he should feel him-
i sow stand to support it, if it were only for

Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL had listened to the disertheion WAGHOHN'S SECOND PAMPHLET en
with unaffected pain. He regretted to observe among the STEAM to AUSTRALIA, widowed to the Right Hoc. East
Irish members • difference of opinion on this question, for Grey, Catmint Secretary. Prier Use Shilling.
he had hoped the discussion on the measure proposed by Swath, Meer, end Cangway.
the noble lord the member for Lynn, would have been put
off until the three bills brought forward by her Majesty's go-
veniment, which, though temporary in their nature, were
of vital importance to the people of Ireland, had been dis-
posed of. They then could come to the discussion of the
rneciple of supporting Irish railways by means of the credit
of Great Britain, without beiiig hampered or embarrassed by
any other considerations. Ile joined in requesting • post-
ponement, and ir the noble lord yielded to that of the govern-
went, the responsibility would be upon them.
Lord O. BENTINCK rue.—l feel myself (said the noble
lord) in a very painful and difficult position. No change
has "come over the spirit of my dream.', As I was on the
first day of the session, so am I now deeply impressed with
the conviction that the measure which I have in-
tuoduced to the consideration of the house, is one in
which the dearest interests of Ireland are deeply
concerned. (Cheers.) It is true, as has been stated by the
hon. member for Kilkenny (Mr. P. S. Butler), that at four
o'clock to-day I received .a requisition from thirty-three or
thirty-four members of both houses of parliament connected
with Ireland to postpone my motion for the second reading
of this bill to some future day. (Hear, hear.) I confess,
with my feelings on the question, this requisition gate me
the deepest pain, inasmuch as I tun deeply impressed with
the conviction that there has been no measure pro-
posed by her Majesty's ministers that off es imme-
diate relief to the people of Ireland, or that offers
immediate relief to the burthened finances of this
country, which can come into any comparison with the mea-
sure which, on behalf of my party, I have had the honour to
introduce to the consideration of this house. (Cheers.) But
though such were my feelings, I was prepared at the united
le quest of those Irish gentlemen to forego any own wishes,
and I am satiefled that my friend=, though they have been
summoned here from the furthest corners of England and
Scotland, and from foreign parts— (laughter and
cheers) —to support this motion, for the second
reading, could not for a single instant have
weighed their convenience against that of the Irish people ;
and therefore when I was told there had been a meeting this
day at the Foreign-office, in the course of which notice was
given by the noble lord at the head of the government that
he intended to stake its eekenee upon the decision of the
house with respect to this measure, and when Irish gentle-
men told me that the greatest inconvenience would arise if
the measures intended for the r:lief of the destitute poor
proposed by her Majesty's government were indefinitely
postponed by a change of government, I was prepared to
postpone for a short time the second reading of this bill.
I must again say that I have heard with the deepest regret
the announcement (tom the first =ladder of the crown that
the fate of the government was to be staked upon this mea-
sure. (Hear, bear.) On the first day of the present session
her Majesty charged us that it would be our duty to con-
sider what further measures would be required to alleviate
thegxisting distress in Ireland, and further, her Majesty
told us, that she hail likewise to direct our
earnest consideration to the permanent condition of
Ireland; and her Majesty was graciously pleased
to say to us, "You will perceive, in the absence of
political excitement, an opportunity of taking a dispas-
sionate survey of the social evils which afflict that portion of
the United Kingdom." (Bear, hear ) In humble obe-
dience to her Males ty'a commands, I did hope that the same
impartial consideration would be given by her Majesty 's
Ministers to • measure proceeding from this side of the
bionic which we hnve shown ourselves ready to bestow
uoon the measures brought forward by my noble friend at
the brad of the administration. (Hier, hear.) It has not
been in public alone, but in private also, that I have stated
(and I stake my honour to my noble friend upon it), that
neither I nor any of any party have the smallest desire to
make any measure connected with Ireland the battle-field of
party—(hear, hear, —and I am here to-night again to re-
peat that assurance to my noble friend and my country, which
was given on a former evening by my right hon. friend the
Lord Mayor of York (Mr. Hudson). I did, therefore, hope
that we might have come to the consideration of this ques-
tion with all party and political feelings removed; but since
I am challenged by the first minister of the crown, willing
as I am to pay attention to the wishes of the Irish members,
I feel—when the Queen's minister, wbo is responsible for
the safety of the country, tells me it is for the advantage of
the country that this measure should be forthwith brought
forward, considered, end disposed of—that I should be want-
ing in my duty te her mejesty as well as to the country, if I
were to hesitate in proceeding with my motion without delay.
And, Sir, whatever maybe the result, however important the
consequences, on my head is not that responsibility. (Hess.)
Should it be the pleasure of her Majesty's ministers, in the
present difficulties of Ireland, to desert the helm of state,
great as I admit to be the dangers, greater than even the dif-
ficulties which other governments have felt in the conduct
of the affairs of Ireland, my friends are not appalled by
those difficulties, and we will not shrink from any responsi-
bility. (Cheers from the Protectionists.)
Mr. ROEBUCK said he did not like to see an injustice
done on any occasion ; but unless some members nut con-
nected with Ireland expressed their feelings, a very unfair
inference might he drewn as to the position of the govern-
ment. The noble lord the member for Lynn had sought to
fix on ministers the imputation of making this a party
question ; but the noble lord at the head of the government
could not have done otherwise than lie bad done. (Hear.)
While professing that he wished not to make Ireland the
battle-held of party, the noble lord the member for Lynn
had placed on the table of the house a measure, which, if
carried, must materially affect the financial position of this
country. If this bill were carried, was not the noble lord at
the bead of the government called upon, in justice to him-
self, to say that he would not take the responsibility of that
measure, thus superinduced upon, and overbearing his own ?
(Hear.) Surely, this was not to make the matter a party
question. What was the meaning of responsibility, if this
was not a common-sense view for any minister of the crown
to take ? If any person was to be accused of making this a
party question, it was the noble lord himself, anti those con-
nected with him. (Hear.) The noble lord the member fur
Newark (Lord J. Manners) had expressed a hope that
government would not interpose the prerogative of the crown
Sc stop this measure ; and, *no doubt, the noble lord at the
lined of the government would accept that challenge, and
nay to the gentlemen opposite, " On you be the responsibi-
Illy of meeting this bill into execution." But it seemed this
was not to e" a party question," but a question of the
"convenience of the Irish members." What did that
mean ? The Irish members wished the bill for giving im-
mediate relief to the people of Ireland, which now only
waited the third reading, to be passed, without the three
other measures which would affect the Irish landlords.
They acted on this maxim, " Get as much as you can from
this aide of the house ; and when we have squeezed
them dry, we'll bring in the noble lord opposite."
(" Hear,' and laughter.) The lion. member for Limerick
(Mr W. S. O'Brien) had said he would state the real reasons
for putting off the measure; but he bad only given a plausi-
ble pretence; the hon. member for Kilkenny (Mr. P. S.
Butler) had told the tree story, and had shown that there
was a split in the camp. (Hear.) This was a question
which seriously affected all the commercial and mercantile
concerns of the country; to them it was a matter of vital
importance to have a question affecting sixteen or seventeen
milliens of money hanging over their heads. (Hear.) It
was therefore the duty of the noble lord to bring the matter
hi an immediate conclusion; and he (Mr. It.) rejoiced that,
in spite of Irish convenience, the noble lord was forced to
bring it to an immediate conclusion. (Hear.)
On the order of the day being read,
Lord 0. BENTINCK expressed a wish to postpone the
measure till next day. (Cries of "Go on, go on.")
' Lord J. RUSSELL said, at that hone of the evening (it
' was then near eleven o'clock), the noble lord could not be
expected to proceed with his bill ; but he should be quite
ready to give the noble lord's bill precedence on the follow-
ing day, with the exception of the Destitute Persons (Ireland)
Bill, which stood for the third reading. (Hear.)
Lord O. BENTINCK acknowledged the courtesy of the
noble lord, and said he would bring forward his bill on the
following evening (this day)
DISTILLING FROM SUGAR BILL.
On the motion that the report on this bill be brought up,
Mr. MOFFATI' moved the insertion of several additional
clauses, of which he had given notice, and which he said
were necessary in order to put the British distiller on the I
same footing with the producers of foreign and colonial
spirits.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the.l
clauses proposed went to establish an advantage in favour of I
the spirits distilled from sugar.
After • short conversation, the 'dames we,. withdrawn,
the report was brought up, and the bill was ordered to be
I reed a third time this day.
A STRANGER IN THE ME
GEMBERS' GALLERY.—
PRIVILE.
The Deputy Serjeant-ateArriss appeared at the table and,
astiminted the house that a stranger who had been found in
the members' gallery was in his custody.
Mr. JAMES said the individual was an acquaintance of
his, who, in endeavouring to find his way out, had entered
the members' gallery by mistake. Under these eircum-1
demses, he moved that he be discharged out of custody.
(Rear, hear.)
lb. GREENE having seconded the motion, which was
rael to, the gentleman was ordered to be discharged out
s od y
The house then adjourned at 11 o'clock.
ALGIERS.—Advice. have been received from
Algiers to the 30th ilk., giving the details of the
of the 10th, between the mops under the command et
General Herbillon and the tribe of the Ouled Dien* by
which it appears that Bou Maze had, a few hours before Use,
ciantbat, been with the tribe, and so excited them against the
nark that they resolved upon making • vigorous void-
own yaiß any attack. The first attempt under Choide-
Mon was a failure; that officer was killed. and
theinseeempaniee under his orders were compelled le or
tress, eaerying with them 18 dead and 66 wounded. Suns
time afterwards, General flerbillon himself came up Ida
about 600 men, and attacked the Arabs with so meth
dear, that they offered their submission, after baying bad
IS dead about 100 wounded. The offer of submission
L won nested by the general, on the condition of • large fine
being d. This was aim agreed to, and on the following day
the try had already paid half the amount stipulated. The
Mutants Algerian announces also the subninaion of some
of the chiefs of the Rebels* of Setif and Burris.
Han MAJIMITT'S RECRITER U•VING BIT UP A CLAIM
nit Via PART OF Till CROWN to the French vessel the
l'are Sensible and ber cargo, recently picked up at sea, and
brought to this island, wnere they were placed in the hands
of the French Vice-Consnl, the said property has, by order
of the Lieutenant-Governor, been forcibly taken possession
of by the police of the parish of Bt. Peter. Port. The ex-
treme gravity of this proceeding, and the great importance
of the di minions to which it must give rise, snake us refrain
at the protein moment from saying more on the subject,—
Guernsey Star.

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MAILS.

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