The Express.
London, England, 1853-04-20 00:00:00

bin' you sea are thought too La removed from politico altoes3
eh r te entlertmed the smell intrieues which go on in these
le eve (Hear, hear, and laughter.) For myself, I eiew
me notion et patronsee altogether, and a change of the
ee,„eae ereutgene iits would only sewage me to perpetual
5.00,1 awe and truuLle, but in. any case your wishes would
we!. have great weight with me; sad is the p, rue:
twee,* will, which I wow state the ease anti ask eeur opi-
„Lee. I hope you will perceive the sincere respect with which
1 „mein. leaf Sir Baldwin, truly your., A ST.srroliti."
Tilt lett•ir might be right or it 'night not, but he cone cad
ht., ed tee letter inteply with surprise. (Hear, hear) A
dierstieu win netessarily need in the hands of the First
tele e 1 the Ailminety as to treating letters as public or
trice,. This letter nut hiving been lei:ie.:hi &lee the
1'.,r,;, was treated as a private letter, and the Duke of
le ineamberlatid was greatly surprised that hi. csasent to
. Ink i eeeeeci was neither obtaived new asked for. (liter,
It. PI •
!veer.; ILe hest time lie saw it was inl news/sap. r, qi!
it w lilt be eie tensely difficult to carry on the puelic Cul-
ee.. it then things were to be porreittee. (Hear, leer.)
lie oil not knew what answer had been given to it. It
mei,• we a verled answer, which was a kind of answer often
e.„.3i, leeen received, or it miaht be a written answer,hat
ttemortert a is use en painful to hien that he thought as little
s, po•iii, . attest it. clear, hear.) He thought he had
golf Sulu 3 eouselentieus tine he hoped a complete and
me,,,,,e,,,e mower to the hon. baronet on the subject of
Cut :entre (Hear, hear.) Ile now came to tee first
en-tem:Wed by the him. baronet. The hon. preemies,
ei meleined that the circular of Sept., 1819, was cancelled
la tprie Pee!, without any atilt r or minute of the board.
Bat he :tee l in strict conformity wi II precedent iii shov-
e eete cinch[ to be i-sued whitest • board minute. It
Was ert,rel in the greeted minute book, and not in a eeard
taieee t see on the 26:1101. April the eirculer was re-allirmi d
by aep e I.si heard minute, eeceivieg the reby es it were
iamb." 'unties:. (Hear, heal.) The members of the
band present on the 26th of April were Admiral
r iierr, Sir T. Herbert, Capt. Duncombe, and Capt. Mile e
1 es Jane of his doing thisehere lore,witheut the heowi, e. :e
of tie board tell C. the premed. (Hear, hr...') Wee re-
reel to the eaurelling i-I the circular of 1549 the facts were
me,. While S.r 11. Neer,' ea. Secretary to the Aelii.i.
Yalu i.e hosed din:en...es in 1317 which were strictly ad.
retieeg and hi. administration was conducted with gnat
mestectioa to the Skrsire. lint when lie went awey a ge-
tout, i f a more erode kind, the &Welds )Jr. John Parker,
was Appal/eel, and in his time the more active sleet. were
imened to tile. from the Secretary the power is heel up to
that ere, be eecuweil. Ou this point he would refer to
Ise Lenin, which Le selected out of innumerable own,
•Lich he reeeivid, and e heeled not because they were the
sec,: ranee, but bemuse he wished to make out a ease for
Lan" .1 out to ley before the house the real facts of the case.
'Wits die waigs„ in 1818, began to f.•el their power de-
e:lame, they thetieht it aseessaty to fall ea same Ilan for
eniffianiair it systemwhich would, even if they retired from
*lee, end lease the eleckyard patronage in their grasp.
ie. to:anal:et mint of that system hail stuffed every bele
sp.l C re. r ie the yards with whit; uffieials and mt.:cell."
sad aatii.g .:0 yi.aire th. es wewthies had managed to cathode
inm retry or promotion all parties who would not support
;et seie interests. It became nrecaiary to vest all recom-
mit ii : semis with euckyard authorities, the channel fer
weak SS* the surveyor of the navy—and thus erect a for-
ge:nee i.'anode frieze rowel their position. Thb order,
Erased wish en apparent design of securing the avenue to
meeenien. and promotion to ability, merit, and service,
me, Let vieletaniliug all its pretence we Summery, in
Tetley a eecusient enabling the parties to carry on •system
eie h hod lone grown up into a crying evil and public
• sae ie S 4 netorious were the channels of deckyard pa-
t:eta:: % tent it is said, end I believe with perfect truth, that
• set of Leff heel been laid dawn as to the prices of
wee, ipeuintatent. ; any person desirous of entry or pro-
lee .0 ...et to cer!..in parties and offered to bet the tariff
rneetiens that be would not succeed. The bet, if the
mime was feasible, wan accepted, and the unlucky atylic:int
is, ..lw Is rare to lop) his bet. and honourably pouf it."
litre wee mother statement—it ,was an extract from a
letter from a doeoyarJ, and, though he could not give the
wee of the party, he believed him to be • trustworthy min.
" l'eliesal party feeling is very strong in this dockyard,
see tee heads of d' partmeets being all liberals, with the
ie.:elites% of the conservatives, have no hcpe either of pro-
meti .3 or fair play. Men who are well qualified fur pro-
siotees by length of service, good conduct, and superior
werlitnan.hip, have had for yean fresli hands put over
their heads, solely, it is believed, on account of their cote r-
estive priecipin. To incliner more particularly, in the
an of —. Mr. —, twin; a liberal, shows the greatest
partiality in the distribution of work; the censervatives
being ineariebly put to the worst of the week." (Laughter
and ceeers from the opposition). "Is one early required
edict and another ashore ? The tury heading man, Mr.
—, is nut afloat, while the other is kept in the ship;
and of the el stributiou of work on shipboard the conserva-
tives are appointed to cockpit work, while the lihtrals
lure tee cabin awl stet u work ; ant in every cue where it
no be done there is a marked preference given to men
professing lib rat opinions. In the case of an appointment
lately of as artiticer trim this yard to superiutend a new
mauled' at another pad, it was promised to A, mid he
mails ereparations fur moving ; but having voted for the
swervatives at the last election' B was appointed over
hie bead without any notice. On the appointment of B
becoming kreeru there was a general cheer by the
workmen of his party. Mr. saying at conservatives,
' What do you think of it now ? H u bad it all our own
way while our own party was in power; we have got
as our own way cow, and we mean to keep it, too.'
NOW this, he admitted, was not a ease for altering an estate
iohed set of dockyard regulations —(liear, hear)—but the
long and the short of the gutter wee, that the system had
been to make appointments which were entirely ore-soled;
the conservative+ got nothing, the liberals everytLieg.
(Hear, hear.) Thu was an extremely convenient arrange-
ment for hon. members opposite, but let them not stand up
ter purity ant impartiality.—(Opposition cheers)—when
tee reciprocity wee entirely on one side. (Laughter.) Well,
a...‘‘, he found that the present Secretarymt.War al-
ways corresponded with the superiutendcuts of the
y iiel when he was Secretary to the Admiralty ; so also
did the right honour:4lo gentlemen the President of
tee Board of Control ; sod he did nut see what 'mimes
jai ie case had been made out against his pursuing a similar
coulee, notwithstanding the circular of September, 1819.
It wueel be seen from the dock yard instructions that the
Admiralty did not shirk the question, but expressly cow
mauled that communications should be sent directly to
teem. This was the general instruction on the subject :
" All reports trona the officers of the yard shall be made and
transmitted, when necessary, by the superintendent to our
setretary, fur our information and direction. Superinten-
eicat,—you are daily to correspond with our secretary, ge-
gen:Ring him with the transactioes of the yard, &c. Yon
ars to report all vacancies without exception that occur in
the dockyard, and when any vacancies, occasioned by pro-
motion or otherwise, shall occur, you are, after consult-
lag the officer in whose department such vacancy may
happen, to forward to the Admiralty the names of per-
inea belonging to the yard fit, from ability and elm- ,
ISISK, to succeed to the vacancy; but no person whit-
ener is to be promoted or entered on the establish-
meat of the yard in any vacancy or otherwise, or office ,
clerk. artificer, or labourer, without our express authority."
' He freely admitted that he was guided in his course, not by
p.hotical precedents and authority, but by the evidence of
.rd Auckland and Sir Henry Ward, contained in the re-
put of the committee on army and navy estimates ; and he
tree el no authority on the subject. Lord Auckland, by
whom the present surveyor of the navy was appointed,
stated distinctly, in the course of his examination, that it
wee kit wish to frame a draft of instructions to that: officer,
welch should define at once what were the duties
of his office. On the Bth of May, 1815, Sir
James Graham, addressing Lord Auckland, said—" Are '1
tee miscellaneous estimates of the present year laid on the
table of the Ilous • of Commons ? lam told not. 1 have
now get a draft with regard to the office of surveyor of the
awry, which I will put in. My wish has been that Sir B.
Walker should know his office well before we absolutely
settle his establishment ; but this expresses the view I take
of what it ought to be. I think it will meet his views, and
I hope it will meet the views et the authorities by which
it may be sanctioned." The following was an extract
from draft report (as we understood) ..—" In all peofes-
, sweat details of matters connected with his duties, in re.
teenci information or explanation on professional points,
the yor will be at liberty to correspond with the °Bi-
ters of the yards; but he is not to issue soy orders of a
enteral nature, or to enter open any part of the general
oertspondence with the superintendents of the yards."
La•ling that the secretaries who had preceded him had,
with the exception of one or two years, corresponded solely
welt the superintendents of th 3 yard, and finding the prac-
tice supported by the authority of Lord Auckland, he felt
that be was jusuded in the course which he pursued. The
tin. baronet (Sir B. Hall) said the Board of Admiralty
hal .'atel that they wished to lay the whole responsibility
of mausgensent upon the surveyor of the navy. He (lir.
Steford) quesuonoil the wisdom of that arrangement—
(oear, hear)--he thought it much better that the Secretary
to 3ke Admiralty shouel be required, if at:cowry, to explain
ts ry appuiatnient in that house, than that be should be
s',- to throw all the responlibity on another person, is a
moaner totally at variance with precedent and with the °pi-
aos a the highest naval authorities. (Hear, hear.) Well,
Cie, he would venture to go through the private or public
t ..r —they might all it what they would—addrened
te the Duke of Northumberland by Sir 13aldwia Walker.
N t 1. tying been in office in 1819, of c nurse he (sir. Staf-
r 3 del not know what his personal grounds were.
lie eel sot know how the figures were made op. The
A lnirelty took the estimate. from the previous board.
'lee vote for 1e.52-3 was G6d,'Jool., against G. 6,4A1. in 18e1-
j• mowing a saving, sot as the surveyor stated, of 130,0001.,
but of about 9,0001. (Hear, hear.) When the late board
wee oat of office the ezpeiditure on account of dockyard
mee.. was not at all above the rate for the financial year ;
Were was so Mertes° up to the time when the extraordinary
expenditure was sanctioned by the house tweet the supple.
at mem estimates, and, but for that, there would have been
a eeenderaele margin at the end of tee year. He himself
Sarrespoad.d with the officers of the dockyard whenever
the estenektere had Seen at all above the fair proportion.
la one awe, be recollected, there was a considerable in'
crease at Pembroke ; but on inquiry it appeared that it
was caused by the removal of a number of men from Devon.
Pert to wire in builuitig the Duke of Wellington, and that
et Devemport there was s proportionate saving. lie was
la soescant communication with the Accountent•General.
I: was imposeible for the surveyor to charge upon the can-
on:4g of the cyder one farthing of increased expenditure
is es, do kyare. Whether it were tight or wrong in ..self,
due was no pecuniary injury to the country. As
to the items department, that was altogether left
.•' lee surviler of the navy. The suegestiens
'! • ... e 'ler 'KAI rig .rd to too steam-packets were 3 Inc.i
a- *mate with beiag brought before the board, from a cos-
eictia• that in tut department he was the best authority ;
ail all ho (Mr. Stafford) did in the matter was

t 3 supply the brutality of his oust sign t ure
The surveyor can no l miter be held responsible tort
the s not being tricecd,ll. He (Hr. Staff.ord)
did net wish the sccrotary to be responsible with
r. wet to ascure's in tae estimate.. (lbw, lni;vri
He thought that it w.is with persons woo beton
to that house th.t ali such rasp wisibi:ity should n st—
(ileen)—and he hoped that no future &mossy or Lord
of the Mini:alty would Le waho.t to surrender to the sur-
veysr of the nosy, or t tiny or,s- person, tae rrsponsi-
bility which atta.died to this gigantic department. (Chet rs.)
There is no one to control the estab.ishments. lle

entirely di. npeed the snrveyor of the navy on this
point. The • hnirel, vomninture, 401 c ..sperin-
teudents of the yud, of whom he knew enow4h to bo able
to decl ne that tioy wen: wen of basin:is, and men who
hadtha: welfare of the serincu at heart, &mid. control tb,.,

establshreentA; and, far In.m agreeing with the stir/caw
that when threet commun.:eS!.t:lona passed tptween the S.
. .

eret4ry to the AJosimlty awl tho liaperitycndents, thele
Wl' e. control. he e wish no h tter :welt to tie .0 Cf.
- - -

tabhsbmer.ts, atmuudang, as they Ilia, in pry dit
than that they ITig be prvAided over by Au :binets:

. ,
Now, it was ;II the 26.6 of waa on tha 10th of
May)—that the board ontiooneed their i:ttertnia it oil
rigidly to adhere to that circular. It seemed rath. r ma.
tore, therefore, to say that the circular of 1817 had b. en

thrown aside. Now, the homharonit (S:r li. Hall) hvi named
sit or seven people to whom he said aemointment. had been
tanfeirly given. With regard to the Ill•vonpart entries, he
must rem irk thst although the hon. baronet's cern-swot-
dent in the We.t ..f E..eland misfit he a very respeetal.do
man, he could not be a rju :4r ns to t' proportion or
kind of men who should hem, be..n 'wend, or es to
whether or not more men should have been entered in one

inonth than iu another, th.n V.ll Loa. bsronet • hinat,X.

(Hear, hear.) A* to J •lan Smith, aril the sawyers
rally, there might have been a greater number of i. trice
entered at one particular time than at another ; het this he
knew that. no nein was entered without the sauctien of the
commodore superintendent. Certain he was that such
a manes the calmed .re superintendent would rent
haw: s incioned an entry which was net justifiable—(no3r,
hear) ; ne:•her wou!,l it ti ire been poesiele to d VI with-
out exceolirat the estimates. 11l (Mr. Stalford) sent 12
buys to Woelwieh. CAninodore Hama relived II and
entered I. Fair fora leing a patty na r-nlitical jobbery.
that gentleman declared, with sail .r-like iranenee., that if
unfit persons were sent down to hint, be would chuck them
neck and heels iota the street. II! believed, that hut he
attempted any pnlitical j /bhiug in his depart-
ment, the superintendents would, by means of
public letters. have exonerated themselves front
all connexion with it. Olt ar, bear.) Not cue of tbem had
done anything of the kind, thou.th be hail held frequent
communication withtitem, and 11.1110 of his recommenda-
tions had been refused, and ha I declare d to them that tit.
!bought the interest of the service would often be promoted
by selecting NJ!. 3 111.1 1 incr a 1 of Pius. I and 2. The hem.
baronet het Ins peened the ease of a private trader. The
man was tried, and gave satisfaction. (Hear, hear) The
boa. baronet hid *cadmic of the case of Atkieson as a job.
Well, the man was put on ; after his ',tried of proleation;the
report rep ectibe him was untavourable(as was understood.)
All he (Mr.Statf:rel) had asked for was a triad:tit to Lona-
burst, whow case the lion. htr met alto consitered a bpd
one, he had been employed 17 years ena II months when ho
was disebinged for beiag feand drunk ; but in caisegu, nee
of the hial, character given to him by the superintendent he
was rLs net on the 6th of October, five weeks after the
compilation of tne offeuce. Among those whom he nomi-
nated was a Lino who, though in appearance a labourzr,
was the sou of a late distinguished officer in the navy. On
this account he eertaialy recommended the superint:ndent
to give him a little lift if he saw an oppertunity of
doing so. (Blear, hear.) Bayley, when first entered, was
prnnounced to have a disease of the spermatic chord. Ile
(Mr. Stafford) directed him to call at Somerset Home ter
examination by the deputy medical superintendent, wha
said that he wise iu geed beady health, and fit for the duties
required of him. Well, now, with regard to the eases
which tie had mentioned, as there was no complaint of any
kind made by the superiutendents of the yard, he did not
coma ier that he had much to accuse himself of. (lle,r,
hear.) He did not knew what chug( s other pewit men
might bring against him when he had sat down;
but as to the matters alleged by the hen. baronet
the no rnbe: far Mary lelione, he did not think that
when examined they amounted to a very large aggregate.
(Cheers.) As to the case of Cotten, on the previous day
the Ana. baronet stated to him th at he was willing to bring
forward a paper with his name attached. Ho went away
because be reel', did not wish to see it. The lion.
barooet might use his awn discretion about the matter.
Sir B. lIALL said the substance of the paper was, that
after Coteell had got the appointment, he stated that now
that the election was over he did not mind telling how the
thing occurred ; that Mr. St..fford promised him the ap-
pointmeut, that he went into a room at the Admiralty,
where the appointmenewas lying on the table, and that on
his observing that he thougat he was hardly dealt with, he
; I was told that he need take no more treat: in the matter ;
' the anpnintment was made out.
t I
Mr. STAFFORD said the election was over; but the
election petition was not over, and why did not this Mlle-
t bitant of Chatham come before the committee with his
. .

statement ? (Opposition cheers.) He found in this state-
ment the name " Oeorge Cotsell" pawed in a double ca-
pacity, both u a briber and as one of the bribed, while the
person who bribed him was stated to be the Secretary to the
Admiralty. (A lauj,h.) The hon. gentleman might
laugh it he chose ; it was a matter which might divert
minds like his—(eheers and laughter) ;—but those who
aerosol him of bribery ought to have had the manlinees and
courage to prefer their charge before a constituted tribunal
of the country where he could have met it upon oath.
(Chects.) The relieving officer who made the statement
had, it appeared, been so occupied with the relief of the
poor that he could not come forward till that moment.
' (Laughter.) The charge made against him amounted only
to this—it showed how closely the eyes of envy hod watched
his proeress, how eagerly they had sought for every word
and actioneof his which it was thought would not bear the
severest scrutiny. (Opposition cheers.) The hon. baronet
said Mr. Cotsell asked him for his appointment when he
(Mr. Stafford) was going round the dock yard. Nu doubt
that was so, but it should be recollected that the request
was complied with Os was understood) after the election.
With ieterance to the case of Cotsell, the hon. memher m-
ended to read the Letter of the 9th of September, 1532,
and said he must here remind the house that the appoint-
ment of master smith was one of great importance, and that
very superior attainments were required ter the office. an
his evidence before the Chatham committee the Surveyor
of the Navy said he had received an order to select tne best
man, and that in his appointment of Wells he was not
aware that he had departed from the ordinary course ; but
when he (Mr. Stafford) came to inquire for the order (or
that appointment, he was utterly unable to find it. Having
read two answers to applications to the Admiralty denying
the existence of such an order, the hon. mem-
ber proceeded to say further that the Surveyor
of the Navy had before the committee also tes-
tified to the professional qualifications of Wells, sad that
he had been appointed with a temporary salary of 2901.
a year, with an understanding that it was to be raised at
the end of six months to VrOl. Now, tt might have been
right or wrong to make the appointments complained of,
but what he wanted to show was, that the board, iu ap-
pointing Outsell, had no intention of injuring Wells, and
had no information leading them to believe that they were
doing so. The great point to be borne in mind was, that
the whole question was one of dates, and to this he wished to
call the particular 'Hendon of the house, as it was one which
was likely to disappear on regaling the proceedings straight
through ; and auuther point he wished to explain was, that
every one appointed under the Board of Admiralty received
two commutate:adieus—ono to himself, authorising him to
take up his warrant, and another which he was to present to
the commandant. The hon. baronet complained that Wells'.
warrant was stopped, and now he (Mr. Stafford)
_would en-
deavour to explain to the house why. Sir B. Walker bad
expressly admitted in his evidence that he had had no in-
terview with Wells, while Wells said that it was in conse-
quence of an iuterview he was induced to accept the appoint-
ment. Sir B. Walker admitted, that not knowing 1% ells's
addrese, he had, when informing him of his appointment,
taken the irregular course of directing a clerk to communi-
este, not with Wells, but with a blacksmith in Woolwich,
who was supposed to know his address. (Hear, hear.) lie
would ask was that the proper mode for a our-
) veyor of the navy to adopt in communicating
1 an Admiralty appointment? (Hear, bear.) It was
inconceivable to him, seeing that the man was a prol.:ge of
Sir Baldwin Walker's, that the latter was not more parti-
cular as to the formality of his communication, and its
made of transmission. In making the other appointment
the board acted oa the belief that the letter had not gone
beyond the Surveyor of the Navy, and that therefore no en-
gagement had been entered into with Wells. It mason the
let Octubet that the board decided on appointing Cotsell as
muter smith. That appointment might have been right or
wrong—all he meant to assert was that when making it the
burl had received no notification of Cotsoll's appointment.
But it would be thought that the Surveyor of
the Navy, seeing that another appointment had
taken place, would have been anxious to make
reparation to Mr. Wells. Not the least. Ile never wrote
to the board until a fortnight after, when he brought for-
ward the memorial of the Gth October. Oa the IGth Oc-
tober the beard found itself in the dilemma of having two
muter-smiths, one appointed with every legal formality ;
the other holding as his warrant the letter of a Woolwich
blacksmith. The qustioa then became whether it was
right to sanction such a proceeding, or to inform Wells of
the irreguiarity of his appointment. The board took the
latter course And informed Wells in answer to his memorial,
that they wore nut aware he had received any appointment,
and did not consider he wasjustified in styling himself" late
master smith." They returned him his memorial, and he
(Mr. Stafford) thought they would have sanctioned disorder
had they adopted any other course. Their lordehips, how-
ever, further informed Wells that if from communications
with any officers of departments, he had received reason to
expect an appointment, they would be ready to take
his cue into consideration. And for doing this, when
driven into a corner, fur preferring Cotsell they were con-
sidered fit suhjects for parliamentary censure. With respect
to Cotsell he had received the highest testimonials from dif-
ferent yards, and was a man who had risen from the hum-
blest position entirely by his own merit. He had been in
three dockyards, and on one occasion had received the
thanks of the Lords of the Admiralty for special service.
The hon. member quotel some testimonials to Cotsell's
merits ; among others one from the builder of the Duke of
Wellington, and proceeded to examine the qualifications of
Wells, the disappointed candidate. Ile did not wish to de-
prelate Wells, but should merely give the testimony of Sir
flat loom Walker. Sir 1341 win, when filed who hel re-
euoarnee. :e . 04at h been uamid be tht
master smith of Woolwich, sad admitted that be could not
say whether Wells had ever forged an anchor. (Hear,
hear.) Bat then was something more. Wells based his