The Express.
London, England, 1847-12-08 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 8, 1847.

Inioad *odd be woeful, and litatt It wild be tit& tine to
tone raid et fay, " Agra your own battles." He (Mr.
Beth.) *Mold be sorry if that state of things should Omar,
but as ea honest man he was boiled to say that If they re-
fused to tearer Ireland's grievances the day might come
-whim, Juiced of finding her a friend, they might find her an
open and declared enemy.
Major BLACKALL said if this motion had been brought
forward under other oireumetances he might have been die.
posed to vote for it. But he wee bound to consider the dm
cumnanose under which it was brought forward. SARI
no faith in the patriotism of the hon. member for N
ham, and he did not think his conduct in that house bire
been calculated very greatly to add lustre to the Isiah name.
But, indeed, if there were no other considerations, the coulee
pursued by the hon. member in resisting the very moderate
request of the Home Secretary to postpone his motion woad
have alone induced him (Major Blacken) to oppose it. 'lle
government might fairly take his own and ether members'
votes that night as indications of whether or not they wore
prepared to give the government a factious opposition.
(Hear, hear.) For his own part, be must candidly say that
be thought some measure of coercion necemery at the pre-
sent time In Ireland. The conduct of the Irish landlords
during the past year had, in his opinion, been such as ought
to have saved them from any reprobation.
Mr. M. O'CONNELL thought the arguments of the hon.
member ought to be coacluwee in favour of the present
motion. They were to judge men by their actions, and by
what they did on the floor of that Douse—(ironical cheers)—
and when they fiod an advocate in the hon. member for
Nottingham, he felt bound to accept his measures, in pre-
ference to those of a government who offered them a coercion
bill instead of repeal. The hon. member for Teriatock,
whe hod spoken that night, knew evidently infinitely MOM
about Queen Pomare and her wrongs than about Ireland
and the sores that were iankling in the heart of the people of
that country. Was Ireland to submit to a course of
legisla-
tier. from persons so ignorant as the hon. member ? There
was the hon. member for Bolton (Dr. Bowriug). He knew
something—at least he thought he did—of every country is
the world; but of Ireland ho knew so little, that he could not
summon up courage enough to descant upon her grievances.
He (Mr. O'Connell) remembered when the first coercion bill
was passed. It was the first Irish measure after the Reform Ad.
He denounced it as an omen of the worst character, that
the whips should commence the first session of a new mons.
meat with a measure of coercion for Ireland, and cautioned
the government to bear in mind that it was et=
coercion for Ireland that had turned out the Grey
tration. It was contemptuously said that the country
was weary of this constant Irish howl. Let the govern-
ment and their eupporters take care that they did not
convert this howl into a war-cry. (Oh, oh.) At a moment
when peace on the Continent hung on the merest thread it
behoved the government of this country to consolidate its in •
ternal strength by the most amicable relations with every
portion of the empire, and not to irritate an important mem-
ber of the state by measures of coercion.
Mr. FAGAN denied that any measure of coercion was
necessary. As to the question of repeal, he contended that
it ought to be fairly and fully discussed, since fully seven out
of the nice millions of the Irish population were deeply
interested in the subject. For himself, while he wholly de-
preciated a national severance of Ireland from England, he
(moldered that a repeal of the Act of Union would be bene-
ficial to both countries, for the internes of England
were intimately connected with the prosperity of Ireland.
As far as the connexion between the countries being affected
by the repeal of the union, he thought that that was merely
a bugbear raised up by three who were inimical to the
• prosperity of both. (" Question," " Divide.") He com-
plained of the way in which the affairs of Ireland were con-
duct( d in a British Howie of Commons, many important
bills being posed at the close of the session after the great
majority of Irish members bad left town. For this the only
remedy we" a domestic perliament, and be trusted that in
time that proposition would receive the attention of the
house. (The boo. member frequently referred to some notes
he held in his hand, and was as coustendy interrupted by
cries of " read, read," and loud laughter.) He would not
be put down by clamour, but if again interrupted would
move the adjournment of the house. (Cries of "Oh,"
" Bar, bar," and other exclamations herebecame so frequent
as to render the boo. member's further remarks wholly in-
audible)
The interruptirms continuing, the hen. member concluded
by moving the adjournment of the debate. (Cries of " Oh,
oh!" " Hear," and " Adjourn, ')
' Mr. J. WALTER —The speech of the hon. member for
Cork, and that of the boo. member for Tralee—(Cries
of " Order! " and "Adjourn.")
Mr. FAGAN appealed to the Speaker to put the question
of adjournment. The motion having been made, it was not
competent, he apprehended, until it was decided, to con-
tinue the debate. (Hear, hear.)
The SPEAKER understood that the hon. gentleman the
member for Cork having moved that the debate be ad-
journed, the hon. member for Nottingham rose to second
the motion. (Cheers and laughter.)
Mr. WALTER again rose, but it appearing that his ob-
! Jett was not to second the motion, be was interrupted by
Mr. E. B. ROCHE, who seconded the motion that the
debate be now adjourned.
The SPEAKER then pot the question, when
Mr. WALTER, essaying to speak, was met with cries of
" Order, order."
Mr. DISRAELI apprehended that the question that the
debate be adjourned having been put, it was open to the
boa. member for Nottingham to speak' to that question.
Mr. WALTER said the hon. member for Cork and other
hon. gentlemen on the same side had gratified the house
with their opinion as to the qualifications of the Irish people
for self-government. He had always understood that one
great and necessary qualification for self-government was
business habits ; but, judging from the specopens of busineee
babiu exhibited by some Irish members during the present
debate, he should say they were as fit for self-legislation as
the blacks. (Cries of " Oft, oh.") In fact, the blacks bad
a proverb that,' If nigger were not nigger, Irishman would
be nigger." (Cheers, laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh.")
Mr. J. O'CONNELL rose to order. He appealed to the
chair whether it was consistent with order that this buf-
foonery should fro on ? (Hear, hew.)
The SPEAKER—The hon. member for Kilkenny is out
of order in applying the word buffoonery to the observations
of any hon. member. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. J. O'CONNELL—I bow, sir, to anything which may
fall from you—l therefore beg to retract the word which you
have decided was not in order, and which I only uttered
under the influence of the strong feeling excited in melmind at
hearing Irishmen and Irish members spoken of as they have
been by the hon. member opposite. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WALTER resumed—The proverb be bad quoted was
from an eminent authority—that authority being Bishop
Berkeley, and a distinguished Irish bishop. (Hear, hear.) To
judge bj the speeches they had heard during that debate one
would imagine that the subjects of Irish grievances arid Irish
distress were quite new to the house, and that hon. mem-
bers could never have heard of the exactions of con-acre or
of the system of ejectment' before—whereas the fact was
that there Owes no one present who bad not heard those
(nations discussed hundreds of times. But whatever might
be the weight and importance of those subjects—tad that
they were important he did not deny—this was not the
time to bring them under discussion The house had
met for a different purpose, vie, to protect the lives of the
people of Ireland from systematic assassination, and were
they to be told that they were not to take measures for pre-
venting murder until they should have inquired into all the
grievances of Ireland? (Cheers.) What would have been
said if, when it pleased Providence to visit that country
with famine, and assistance was called for to keep the peo-
ple from starving, if English members had replied—" We
will not give a farthing, until we have examined into the
cause of the potato rot?" (Hear, hear.) Let those who,
when money was the question, would admit of no
delay, but whose cry was continually give! give! be
conshtent now, and allow parliament to afford protection to
life before entering into matterswhich were of • less urgent
nature. (Cheers.) He concurred with his bon. colleague,
that for ordinary crimes, ordinary laws were sufficient, but
an organised system of assassination was no ordinary crime.
(Hear, hear.) We must (said the hon. member) deal with
the murderer and the anemia as Dr. Johnson said madmen
should be dealt with—knock them down first and reason
with them afterwards. (Hear, hear.)
We moat supplant those rough mg-heeded kerns;
Which live like venom, where no venom else,
But only they, hen privilege to flue. (Mere.)

- -
Mr. B. B. ROCHE observed that the hen. gentleman's
speech partook very much of the spirit of those envenomed
articles against Ireland which appeared from time to time in
a certain daily newspaper, and which cast vitriol rather than
oil upon the troubled water,' of Irish grievances. (Meer.
hear.) But the hon. member's speech, though remarkable
for its smartness, was not to the point, which was, whether
or not the debate should be adjourns I. (Cheers.) His hon.
friend the member for Cork, who was well acquainted with
Ireland, hnd been meet ungenerously and improperly inter-
rupted in his address, and unless he was allowed to proceed
he hoped be would press his motion for the adjournment.
(Hear, hest, and cries of " Go on.")
Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON should in that ease move as
an amendment that the hen. member fer Cork be called
upon to continue his address. (Loud laughter.) He felt it
due as an Irish member to acknowledge the admirable atten-
tion and patience which, up to the present evening, bad been
shown to Irish members genteelly since the meeting of
parliament. (Hear, hear.) It was.due to English members
to acknowledge with gratitude the spirit of fair play they
bad hitherto shown to Irish members, and he hoped they
would continue their generceity to the hon. member fur
Cork for a few moments. They should remember too that
interruptions often renewed those energies which, if left to
themselves, soon exhausted themselves. (A laugh.)
Sir G. GREY said the hon. member whe last spoke had
done but justice to the desire of the house generally, to give
a fair and patient bearing to every hon. member so long as
he confined himself within the subject of debate. And
until the bon. member for Cork had occupied the house for a
very long time in an address which was interrupted by many
very long pauses, owing, he supposed, to the hon. member's
want of knowledge of the umiak of the house, every atten-
tion was paid to him. He had no doubt, also, that if the
hon. member would resume his address and confine himself
within moderate limits, the hones would continue to give
him its attention. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. J. O'CONNELL thought his hon. friend, who was
not on well acquainted with the usages of the house as older
members, had not been treated with the courtesy he might
have expected. The hon. member for Ennis had been so
long absent from the house, that he appeared to have for-
gotten what had occurred. He (Mr. O'Connell) bad been a
member sixteen years, and bad never witnessed such an
attempt to put down and eraah Irish cli.cussimis as in the
present *mien. (Criss of "Oh, ob.") Were Irishmen to
be hooted down became_ they did not closes to lay their
country at the feet of English memben ? (Cheers, and
"Oh.") He repeated that in no previous parliament bad
he seen so much intolerant" exhibited as in the present.
(" Oh, oh.") Re called on his hon. friend to persist in his
motion.

Mr. FAGAN said that if he had isoweeleed that any ex-
Crhe had used had given rite to the interruptioa he
perienoil he should at anise bow ; but he was not
aware he had done so. He thought it due to his constituenta
as well as to himself that he should show to those who had
interrupted him that, though a new member, he was not to
be =imbed when he was endeavouring to put forward, in
language net exhibiting much talent and in arguments not
exhibiting much conciseneu, his reasons w he thouhtthe
repeal of the union would be beneficial bothhy to Englangd and
to Ireland. For himself he feared nothing, but Le grieved
much that the cage of his country should have been so
treated. Ile bad thought the battle of repeal was to be
fought on the door of the House of Commons, lout
he greatly feared, from what he had seen to-night, that the
Trials people would not obtain any of those rights they
claimed through the agency of a repeal of the union from the
British parliament. He did not Irish, however, to exhibit
any angry feeling, and with that view he should net perse-
vere in nix amendment for an adjournment of the debat....
The amendment having by leave been withdrawn
Mr. F. O'CONNOR said that as the debate had already
been confined to one side, he really felt that he had nothing
Ito reply to. With respect to the strictures which had been
made upon his patriotism by the hon. and gallant mem-
ber for Longford (Major Blackall) he regarded them as the
idle wind; but, at the same time he must observe, that it
was rather extraordinary that the hon. and gallant member
should urge as his only excuse for not supporting the
present motion, that it had been brought forward by an
Irishman who represented an English borough. He had
heard in the house, and seen it stated in the newspapers,
that the hon. and gallant member was one of the newly-
pledged repealer', and hence he thought the course he had
pursued to-night was still more extraordinary. Thank.
log the house for its attention he should now divide the house
upon the motion.
Major BLACKALL explained. He denied that be bed
given any pledge, or that he was fettered in any way upon
this or any other subject.
The house then divided—For the motion 23
Against it
CRIME AND OUTRAGE (IRELAND) BILL.
Sir G. GREY postponed the second reading of this bill
till this day.
RAILWAYS BILL.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER postponed
the report on the Railways Bill till Thursday.
ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL.
In answer to a question from Sir G. HUEY,
Mr. ANSTEY said he should press the second reading of
his bill to-day
PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND.)
Sir R. FERGUSON (La the absence of Sir F. French, by
whom the notice had been given) obtained leave to bring in
a bill to facilitate tho completion, in certain cases, of public
works in Ireland. The bill was afterwards brought in, and
read a first time.
The house adjourned at a few minutes after 12.