The Express.
London, England, 1847-12-21 00:00:00

THE

EXP.
~ .
XY rho treat of employment in this made
the haat/ of an leopewtatio• of labourers from and
y fearful. What would be the result of, roofs iin Wl' I
lotion if not to incomes the existing dimities ? There '
ems at present a premium fur clearance' to Ireland, and so
long aa that existed the mo t fearful results for both coun-
tries might be expected.
Lord LINCOLN said it would be in the recollection of
the noble lord (J. Russell) that izothe last session he moved
for an inquiry, by atm can coamimion, into the subject of
oolonieation as a mode of employing the able-bodied destitute
poor of Ireland. The noble lord, while acceding in sub-
stance to that motion, said he should &deist the crown to
make the proposed inquiry through the medium of the
Colonial-office, reports being obtained front the different
colonial governors. As the subject of employing the surplus
labour of Ireland would be brought before the house in dif-
ferent forms in the next session, he hoped that the house
would be in possession of a sufficient number of reports from
the different colonies to enable them to form a just opinion
on the whole question.
Mr. HINDLEY said their constituents would no doubt
ask them en their return what they bad done during the
present siting. He must complain of the want of energy
and stringency in the measures which had been brought for-
ward, especially in the ease of railways. (Cries of "Oh,
oh.") They had, within the lest two or three years, autho-
rised the raising of 215,030,0001. for the construction of rail-
ways. Did any one believe that this sum would be
advanced? (Hear.) The Manchester manufacturers could
not stand the competition with railway companies fax money.
He would suggest to the government whether they could
not Amin the cooperation of leading railway directors in the
introduction of a bill immediately after the recess, under
which directors of railways should not be allowed to make
calls to an amount exceeding 6 per cent. on the authorised
capital within six months, er to borrow money at more than
6 per cent. within the lame period. He would make an ex-
ception in cases in which two-thirds of the shareholders signi-
fied a willingness to pay a greater amount. The hon. member
then proceeded to refer to a notice which be had pot on the
paper with reference to the committee on the Bank charter.
He thought no practical beneficial result could arise from
the appointment of that committee. (Cries of "Oh," " oh.")
He could not agree in the statement that the apt of 1844 was
suited for fair weather, hut not for fend : the reverse of this
appeared to be the truth. Why was no clause introduced
which world have had the effect of preventing so much rail-
way speculation ? (Hear, hear.) The object of his notice
was to give no instruction to the committee to inquire why
the Bank of England had reduced the minimum rate of dis-
count, on the 27th of August, 1846, to three per mint., and
had continued it at that rate till the 4th of January in the
present year. Such conduct appeared to him altogether unjus•
tifiable. Such had been the result as regarded the cotton ma-
nufacture, that whereas at the period when the reduction of
which he complained took place, the price of cotton was 4ld.
per lb., at the beginning of the present year it was 71d., or
70 per cent. higher. Considering the large railway expendi•
tare, the failure of the potato crop, mod other eireuenstances
in the position of the country, nothing could be more ;Aurae-
able than this cheapening of money.
Mr. GLADSTONE said that a few evenings before, in
answer to a question from himself, the noble lord at the head
of the government had stated that he did not expect to be
able to introduce his bill on the subject of the navigation
laws at an early period after the recess. He (Mr. Gladstone)
apprehended that at the present period, and especially after
the inquiry. which had taken place last session, it was ex-
tremely desirable that the defiuitive decision of parliament
on this most imporant question should he given during the
present session. (Cheers.) He hoped that in order that the
shipping interest, and the other interests concerned, might
not be kept in a protracted state of suspense, opportunity
would be afforded within that period of arriving at a conclu-
sion on which they might repose. (Hear, hear.)
Col. SIOTHORP could see no advantage whatever to be
gained from the proposed adjournment.
Sir L. O'BRIEN said he could not allow the present dis-
cussion to pass by without thanking. the house fur the aid
which it had given to Ireland last winter. But he wished to
inform the house that he people in various pert* of that
country were in a great state of destitution at present. The
gentry were surrounded by multitudes of starving neopte,
and it was utterly beyond their power to meet the destitu-
tion that smelled, unless parliament contineed that aid
which it so generously afforded last year. He did not think
that much benefit would be derived from the Coercion Bill,
male sit it was followed by remedial measures. (Hear.)
Mr. BERRIES hoped that the hon. member for War-
wickshire would not press his motion to a division ; but
he hoped the representations which he gave of the distress in
the manufacturing districts from which he came would re-
ceive the utmost consideration of parliament He did not
think that they bad bestowed sufficient attentioo on that
subject; and he trusted that it would be taken into considera-
tion at the earliest perod after the recess. There was another
subject of great importance, the currency question, on which
he did not wish to raise Any discussion at that time ; but he
hoped that one of the earliest days after the re-asesemblieg
ofiparliament would be allowed him to make a motion Oil the
,object.
Lord J. RUSSELL, in reply to the observations of the
hon. bare the member for Clare (Sir L. O'Brien), said he
could not contradict the statement that great distress pre-
vailed in many parts of Ireland, and he believed that great
exertions were making by the owners of property in that
country to alleviate that distress. The applications under
the Land Improvement Act showed a wish on their part to
give employment to the people. But when the hon gentle-
man went on to express a hope that parliament would afford
relef,he must say that it would be necessary in the first place
te have it proved that every exertion had been made to carry
into effect the pravidons of the 1 iw which had been passed
last session for the relief of the destitute in Ireland. (Hear,
hear.) They did not regret the relief which had been given
last year; but it was considered at the time, anti had been
proved since, that the giving of that relief would be a eerioua
burden on other parts of the country. (Hear, hear.) He
did not think that the deficiency of the harvest of 1816 would
have been such ea to afflict this country with the high price
of provisions which prevailed, but when they had spent
millions.to enable the distiried in Ireland to obtain Loud
the consequence was a high price of provisions, such as had
not existed mince the war, and great speculati in, which
afterwards led to failures, and in some respect* to commercial
diesese. (Hear, hear.) He did not say that this was
a reason why they should not afford assistance to re-
lieve distress in Ireland ; but he begged to call attention
to the statement made by the boa. member fur Warwick.
shire respecting the di-tress in the manufacturing districts ;
and as no one would ask that those who were out of employ-
ment in those districts should be assisted by the consolidated
fund, so they could not propose any assistance from the
imperial treasury for the relief of the people of Ireland till
all the means which th • Irish poor law afforded had been
tried and proved inefficient. (Hear, hear.) With respect
to the motion on the subject of the currency to which
the right hon. gentleman who just sat down alluded,
he would be ready, when it came on, to state his views to
the hotsee; and although he differed from the right hon.gen-
tleman respectirig theoperation of the act of 1841, he hoped
be might rest confident that they did not differ in the opi-
nion that the convertibility of paper into gold ought to be
preserved—(hear, hear)—and that the right lion. gentleman
would not give the countenance of his high authority and
opinion to any of those schemes which had been propounded
by the gentlemen of Birmingham—(near, hear)—which he
believed would prove injurious not only to the prosperity
and welfare but to the character and good faith of the
country. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the navigation
laws, he had hesitated to make any 'atomise that the ques-
tion would be brought forward after the recess, seeing that
they had measures to introduce which they thought ne-
cessary for the improvement of Ireland, and that they had
only eight days in the month for government business. He
was not in a state to say, till they had all the revenue returns
before them, whether they might not find it necessary t i
bring the subject forward soon after the reassembling of
parliament. But be was quite ready to declare that the
question should be entertained at such a period as to
give members time fur discussing the subject, and all others
that were connected with it (Hear, hear.) The Irish mea-
sures, which were now undergoing the most anxious con-
sideration, would be submitted to parliament immediately
after the recess. (Hear, hear.) With respect to an observa-
tion that had been made, that now the Coercion Bill was
passed it might not be brought into operation, he begged to
say that the Lord-Lieutenant-of Ireland had been applying
himself to the consideration of the state of that country, and
that consideration would not rest on empty declarations or
words, but he was prepared to act with that vigour and
energy which belonged to his character. (Rear, hear.) In
carrying out the law which bad passed, and thinking it of
the utmost inipirtance that parliament and the government
of Ireland shnuld not be (migrated in their attempts, he was
prepared on the port of the g ivernment to give every mist-
ance which was necessary for the peace of Ireland and the
suppression of outrage. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the
subject of congratulation which bad been referred to by the
' noble lord the member for Falkirk, he could only say that
the information which he required would be laid on the
table of the house, and if any motion were made, the goveru-
snent, although he could not may that they had any plan of
emigration for the present year, would be prepared to state
their views on the subject. He was sorry to say that in
North America, and especially in Canada, great prejudice
existed against emigration from this country, in consequence
of the state in which the Irish emigrants of I tZS year were
landed. (Hear, bear.) He hoped the hon. member for
Werwickehire would net press his motion.
Col. DUNNE wished to bring under the notice of the house
and the government the fact, that in some cases where there
were paid guardians in Ireland they had substituted a union
rating twitted of a rating by electoral divisions, which he be-
lieved was an evasion of the law.

Sir B. HALL said that the returns which had been lately
laid on the table of the house with respect to the money
raised in England and Ireland for the relief of the poor, and
which were made up to the Ist or January, 1847, showed '
that Is. 71d. had been raised in England, and only 81d. in
Ireland. He hoped that the returns up to January, 1848,
would soon be laid on the table of the bout°. While they
were anxious and willing to grant any relief that was just
and reasonable to Ireland, they must look to the position of
their own countrymen. (Hear, hear.) He regretted to be
obliged to state, that in the parish of Marylebone, which
was one of the richest districts of the world, and which con-
tained 140,000 inhabitants, there were 27,003 who were re-
ceiving pirochial relief, out of whom 10 per coat. were Irish.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. GRATTAN said that the bon. baronet forgot to men-
tion that all the wealth of the rich Irish absents(' was anent
In this country.
Sir 0. GREY said that the ramie to which the bon. loas
meet alluded would be in the hands of members in a few
days, and it would show the amount of poor-rate collieted
in every month during the year. That amount would show
a great Inman during the present year. (Hear, hear).
With reared to what had fallen from the hon. member for
Portarlington (Col. Dunne), he was not aware of the fact
that the paid guardians had substituted a union rating ; but
if they did, it must hare had the sanction of the pair-law

'REBB, TyEEIDAY :IArENING, DECEMBER 21, 1847,

eenualseimen, end Mat entail he given upon a fell tonal.
deletion of the ere.
Mr. DEERING said that e rate of 6..6d. was levied in the
parish in which het resided, end when Irish property was
rated to that amount, they might then, and only then. come
forward to ask relief from his muntrymen. (Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Mr. SPOONSIt, the amendment
was withdrawn, and this motion for the adjournment till
the 3rd February, was agreed to.
CASE OF THOMAS DRURY.
Mr. EWART begged to ask the Secretary for the Home
Department a question with n ferenee to the case of Thomas
Drury, who was convicted at the Wakefield sessions in De-
cember, 1845, on a chants, of stealing a horse. The prisoner
Gould have proved an alibi, but was too poor to have himself
properly defended. He was sentenced to seven years' trans-
ponation. The prisoner was then confined two years in
Wakefield gaol, and afterwards two years in Pentouville,
when he was transported to Van Diemen's Land. Shortly
after hie arrival in that country a prisoner, named King,
medessed that he had stolen the horse, and assumed the
name of Drury. He wished to ask the right hon. gentle-
man whether ho had received any intimation of these facts,
and, If so, what measures would he taken for the relisf of
the innocent mail ?
Sir G. GREY admitted the correctness of the statement,
and said that an inquiry had been instituted into the case.
Whilst he would caution his hon. friend ageing the state.
mint of one convict made to relieve another of the offence
of which he had been convicted, he might state that there
were circumstances attending this case which tidied for an
there -est two witnesses at the

inquiry. It appeared that a were two v. at the
trial to prove an alibi, one of whom was examined and failed
to do so, and the other was not called. He might add that
the prisoner wag not transported as a crnvict, but with •
conditional pardon.