The Express.
London, England, 1847-02-02 00:00:00

that was to ray, by labour alone, without any application of
capital. (Hear, hear.) This was their chronic state, always
threatened with the starvation which had now actually
falen upon them. For this class he had every sympathy.
They asked fur bread because they were nerving, and they
were entitled to all hum acs consideration. lint there was
another clam—the landlords, who came to that house, almost
commanding the British legislature to redeem them from ruin.
Of these it might be said—there were some exceptions--but
generally it might be said that they were not the true land-
lords of that country. (Hear, hear.) They were in truth
persons acting a part as if they had put on a domino for the
purpose. (Hear.) The real landlords of Ireland were the
mortgagee and the tax gatherer. (Hear, hear.) But the
pretended landlords bad all the desire for display which
marked real territorial proprietorship, while they had not
the means of supporting that display, and the consequence
was that while their poorer countrymen were always ap-
proximating to starvation, the laudlerds themselves trembled
on the verge of ruin. (Hear, hear.) Heavily in debt,
and nut really masters of their own estates, they were
obliged to live from hand to mouth, totally unable
to perform the duties which properly appertained to the ,
ownen of the soil. Who he saw m n in such a con-
dition coming to that house to make extraordinary demands,
he was driven to enquire into the circumstances under which
they came. (Hear, hear) Unhappily, the Irish landlords
had been, in great part, the cause ot the misery of the people.
They hod ever been a favoured class, the whole of the legis-
lation of 614 country herice been unfortunately directed in
their favour. We had given them net powers, and they
had so employed them, as gradually to bring the people over
whom they were pieced to the brink of starvation. (Hear,
hear.) The latter had no stake of exisie.oce but the land,
and the consequence was that land in Ireland let at
a higher rate than in England. (Hear, and no.) And all
this was taken by the landlorl; none was given back as in
England in the improvement of estates, or other employ-
ment of labour ; it was spent, first in the payment of debts,
next of taxes, and lastly in penoual support. There was an
exception to this in the case of the large absentee pro-
rietors, who ke believed, the English portion of them at
least, were by far the most beneficent landlords. (Hear,
hear.) The necessities of the landlords had led to the sub-
division of the soil, and in this latter c.iuse was to be
found the cause of all the m series of Ireland. What
then was to be done with a country in such a
condition ? Was it possible by any means so to
fashion their legislation as to make :t the interest of certain
parties to watch over and prevent this coma un and increas-
ing subdivision of laud? Ile thought it was possible, but in
the first instance they must resist every attempt of
government to become land-jobbers, corn-factors, or road-
makers. ( Hear, hear.) All them thing* were beyond the
powers, and betide the province of a government. (Hear,
hear.) AU the government could safely do was to protect
life and property, to give means to make easy the trans-
mission of the latter, and, above all, to provide cheat' and
secure titles, and subsidiary to this, to raise the con-
dition uf the people by moans of education. (Hear, boa.)
The lat few months showed the danger of following a
different course. TUC correpondence with the Irish Boarl
of Works exhibited a degree of wasteful expenditure which
he had never seen equalled is the whole course of his parlia-
mentary experience —wasteful, not intentionally on the part
of government, but wasteful in spite of them. The regular
course of labour had been dieturlied, and what had been the
consequence? Labour had come from every quarter to the go-
vernment works Labourers had left profitable employment
in the north of England, striking by thousands, and going
over to Ireland to take the Queen's money. Worse than
that, the agricultural labour of Ireland itself had been
deseited to such an extent as to make another year of
starvation imminent. (Hear, hear.) Such must always be
the case when a goo, rnment undertook a task beyond the
limits of government business. By undertaking to provide
food and employment for a whole people they had demo-
ralised that people, and they must take care of the conse-
quences, even in England. (Hear, hear.) Would not the
English labourer complain, when he saw the Irish labourer
fed up in idleness ? Was it not already felt that injustice
had been done to his patient and forbearing countrymen ?
(Hear, hear.) Were they to see this pestilence gather, awl
be unwilling or afraid to put it down? (Hear.) He would
not be intimidated from advocating the interests of his poorer
countrymen. It was in their name he protested sgainat the
whole scheme of the noble lord; he protested against it as a
scheme intended to protect the Irish landlords from the con-
sequences of their own acts. (Hear, hear.) Ile protested
against the hard-earned capital of the English people being
given to drain wild lands, and last of all he protested against
what the noble lord called his poor-law amendment act.
That a poor-law ! Why there was uo machinery for a poor-
law. Two or three crude clauses there were by which
power was conferred on certain people, which no one knew
how to execute, and which the people of Ireland did not under-
stand. There was no right given to relief, therefore there was
no efficient poor-law. Let the noble lord give a law of
settlement and of removal, in fact, let a right to relief be the
fundamental principle, and then there must be a euperstrac-
ture capable of producing the same effect as in England.
At the present time the Irish proprietors dare not resist such
a law, and therefore the English parliament should take
time by the forelock and establish it. (Hear.) What then
would he advise them to do? Why at once and without
circumlocution to introduce the English poor-law into
Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Let there ho uo tenderness to no-
minal holders of land, for such would be only cruelty to the
people. Unfortunately, I relandhad long been an ill-governed
country—she had received much injustice from England,
and he did not hesitate to acknowledge it. (Hear, hear.)
But let gentlemen opposite recollect, that every attempt to
extend the liberties of the Irish people had been resisted by
their landlords. For his own part, with the exception of
the repeal of the union, there was not *measure for extending
Irish franchises which he had not supported. On no point
had the Irish been more misgoverned than on theta
and it was hopeless to attempt anything in the way of re-
generation until that great error had been repaired. As long
as things remained in their present slate, the religious
grievance would term a ready weapon for every agitator who
sought to stir up the passions of his fellow-countrymen.
(Hear, hear.) They were about to reconstruct the character
of the Irish people, and they must not shrink from the
grad evil of them social condition. (Hear, hear.) There-
fore, he said, that so long as they continued the Irish church
establishment in its present position, it was utterly hopeless
to attempt anything for the regeneration of Ireland. Ile
could not help further remarking that their system left the
Irish priesthood precisely in such a condition as made it
their interest to maintain the unhappy position of their
country. He had heard the noble lord make some
allusion as to what he intended to do. He warned
him against any attempt to make a state provision for
the Irish priesthood. Any English government that
made such an attempt, would not have twenty-four
hours tenure of office. But there were other means of
placing the Irish clergy in a better position. Let the law of
mortmain be done away with, and allow the Catholic priest
to acquire land to the amount of 3001. a year, and not many
years would elapse before there would be n pretty general
endowment. Ile would also give every municipality in Ire-
land power to maintain whatever priesthood they pleased,
but any attempt to constitute a general fund out of the im-
perial treasury for the payment of the Irish Catholic clergy
would fail in its object. Yet they must meet the evil and re-
lieve that clergy from their present condition ; for, unless
they did, they might abandon all hope of securing perma-
nent peace to Ireland. When those various measures he
had adverted to should have been adopted, government
would have done all Oct could have been required of them
one thing only excepted—that was, to provide, as far as their
means would permit, for the general education of the Irish
people, and he could not but remark that the noble lord
in his speech, never once alluded to the means of providing
this education. The government had, however, the means 1
in their hands, in those revenues of the Irish church beyond
what was necessary teethe spiritual comfort of the Protest
ants of Ireland. Those surplus revenues, he contended, ought
to be applied to the education of the Irish people. (Hear.)
Let the government deal with Ireland in this way, and they
would have no more of the innumerable absard remedies for
Irish distress which from both aides had been suggested.
Amongst the various plans that had been oropmed, one hon.
gentleman (the member for Limerick) had suggested that
the government should go to the Falkland Islands, and to
every other part of the world, to buy food for the people.
They would hear next, he supposed, the government called
upon to clothe the people, to put on them hate, and perhaps
to shave everybody. (" Hear," and a laugh.) It was a la-
mentable spectacle to see a great nation, bleated with a
climate as genial as our own, a eel at least as fruitful, a
population in all respects equal to us in regard to Intellectual
and physical force in the position in which Ireland was.
But there was this great difference between the two coun-
tries—the moral courage which enabled the English people
to austain themselves was wanting in Ireland. (Hear.)
The people of England had no wish or desire for others to
help and to feed them ; hut with that honest and manly
pride which ought to distinguish a great nation, and a con-
sciotuness of their own inherent power they surmounted ell
difficulties and conquered all obstacles. Let the Irish (said
Mr. Roebuck) attain that morel courage and instead of
seeing the abject spectacle we have this night witneeeed we
may hope ere long to see them running side by side with
ourselves in the great race of civilization, but if you once
succumb to the wishes of the noble lord England herself
will be blotted out from amongst the great nations of the
earth, and instead of being the great sun of civilization shed-
ding light and life over the world she will herself exhibit a
scene*, waste and desolation such as that we now deplore.
(Hear, hear.)
Lord BERNARD observed that those who would post-
pone the consideration of the condition of the Irish people,
could not be aware of the extreme destitution to which that
people were reduced, and that while relief was withheld or
delayed, thousands were passing from time to eternity. The
meat and fatal error on the part of the government was that
they had delayed their interference,—so far as providing
depots from which the people could be supplied with food,—
too long, and had thus enabled the corn merchants sad
dealer. to combine together (which they had done especially
in the south) to keep up prices. He did not say it was the
duty of government to feed the people, but they might have
taken the same course as Sir R. Peel bad adopted on a pre-
vious occasion, and so secured provision. at fair paces
Oat of the present evil he trusted that good would come:
If they would curl hnffinuc and Pram into Ireland he '
would advice the inUedaetion a English capital, 'the
encouragement of railways, the reclamation of waste lands
and the opening of the country to the action of tisde—bes:
lieving, as he did, that for such measures they would be
amply repaid, not in the gratitude of the people merely,
but an incremed revene.

Slr It. INGLIS regretted that the honourable mem-
ber for Bath had not confined his remarks to the
three bills before the house, supplying, as the,
did, even to the most voracious, ample food for
lion, but that he should have brought in every 'Aber
ve rata questio which had divided the minds of men. For
the special accommodation of ~ne hon. member ho proposed
tie revival of the appro',,riation clause, and, tor that of
wildilism iv FIK policy of the noble frad at the head

of the government. (Hear, hear.> Now, in his (Sir R.
Inglis'S) opinion, the measures before them were as compre-
hensive as were ever devised by any statesman at any period
however critical. But his object in speaking after the hon.
member for Bath was to bring hack the house to the real
question before the miserable condition of the great
bulk of their fellow-countrymen in Ireland. lie, for one,
trusted that the expression of the hon. member for Bath,
when be talked of the indignation of the people of England
at the measures of her Majesty's government, would be re-
pudiated by the great body of the English people—(hear)—
who, he was sure, entertained an intense desire to promote
the well-being and increase the comforts of their Irish
brethren. He held it to be their first duty to consider in
whet way the distress in Ireland could be alleviated ; and
the question was—whether that distress was not such
as to demand from those whom God had spared from the
calamity the readiest and most active support. Of the
manner in which that calamity had been borne by the
people of Ireland, there was ample testimony in the reports
of the almoners of the Society of Friends, who had deputed
certain members of their body to make inquiry on the sub-
ject. Those reports dearly showed that the suffering people
of Ireland had, by their remarkable fortitude and forbe tr-
ance under such circumstances, earned the sympathy of the

country. The lINGIPUINI now proposed by the gOveinment must
terminate in a social revolution, not only as related to the
poor, but as regarded the rich, greater than anv whic't
had occurred in the last 300 years. lie (Sir RS Inglis)
believed that a large portion of the revenue et the aristocracy
of Ireland rested On a very unsafe foundation. There had
been no large an increase tn the rental of the country since
the Union, that it could not be estimated at less a
proportion than u 2.50 to 100. If this had arisen
from the improsereent of the soil, it would not mile
have been beneficial to the country, but would
have entitled the proprietor to gratitude, but whoa
it was founded on a desire for an increase of political power,
irre.pective of any benefits to the people, those who sought
a share in such results must be prepared to take their share
in those of another description. One great recommendation
of the present measures was that without imposing a tax on
absentees, they would have the beneficial effect of
bringing them back to the country, and promote in
them the discharge of their duties, and the happiness
of the people. He believtil none of the absentees could bear
to witness the scenes which they would then be obliged to
see, and they would take up the duties which belonged to
their position, or else sell their property, and it would get
into the hands of persons who possessed capital to enable
them to discharge those duties. Understanding that it was
the object of the house to discuss the social condition of Ire-
land, without technical reference to any bill, and believing
that it was the duty of England to provide some temporary
means of meeting the distress of Ireland, he should give his
cordial support to the measure before the house.
. • •

Cal. CONOLLY was glad of an opportunity of thanking
the noble lord at the head of the government-for the liberal
and enlightened policy he was pursuing, and elm of making
his personal acknowledgments for the generoussympathy for
Ireland which had been expressed by this country. With
regard to the measures which had been proposed he had
few objections to make to them.
Mr. HUME hoped parliament would not inflict upon the
people of England the burthen of supporting the population
of Ireland. (Hear.) He was one of those who thought that
Inland was capable of maintaining her own poor, and Ail'
of hieing helmet' in the scale of Ration,. To him it was
lamentable to hear Irish members express their apprubatior
of theviews of the government with respect to Ireland,
simply because the government were ready to give them
money. (Ironical cries of " Hear, hear.") Yes, there were
cries of ' Hear, hear;" but it was only in approval of a
grant of rioney to the landlords of Ireland. If such was the
only ground on which the approval of government measures
rested, it was high time that her Majesty's ministers should
turn round and consider whether they bad not taken a
wrong course—a course which, without raising Ireland from
her present rendition, would sink England and Scotland.
(Hear, hear.) Neither of those countries were now without
their troubles; and, though the noble lord at the
head of the government came forward with many palliative
measures, he has. failed to open any comprehensive plan
which evinced a master mind capable of dealing with the
time to come. In nhort, he did not see any measure sug-
(meted which was calculated to afford radical improvement
in time to come; ant before a single shilling of the public
money was granted fa the relief of the people of Ireland, it
was Important that puliament and the people of England
and Scotland should hale from the government some distinct
and positive statement is to the cost of bringing about a
proper course of affairs inthat portion of her Majesty's do-
minions. (Hear, hear.) The treasury would soon be
empty, and no government ought to take upon itself the
expenditure of so many nilliout--eight or nine millions
the noble lord at the hem. of the government spoke of
with much indifference —w/hout any remedial measures
being introduced. There vu a total absence of any
remedial plan, though insteadnf the sum calculated upon by
the government, three time, u much would be requisite.
It was true that men could not shut their eyes to the de-
graded state to which Ireland was now brought, or to the
fact that the degradation had now become a punishment
upon this country for the manner at which she had mal-
treated and oppressed Ireland. ( Mar, hear.) There had
been unequal laws and constant oppresdon. Continued strife
had been kept up by the country gentlemen from Ireland who
sat in that house, and the Protestant landlords who hold
seven-eighths of the land, who said on the subject of tithes,
" we are content to remain as we me, end will ant agree
to any measures suggested for the relief of our Cm
tholic brethren." Twenty-four s ears ago be (Mr. Hume)
had stated that Ireland never would be at peace, or ever be
raised in the male of nati 'no, until inequality of laws be-
tween England and Ireland were abolished. This be bad
said, and now repeated ; but the landed proprietors of Lam
land in this and the other house of parliament came down
(as it mere ed to him) to obtain as much of the public moan
as could be got. (Cr:es of " No, no.") The resolution—
their own resolution, as he read it, said so—(hear, hear)—
and he repeated his conviction that the proposed large ex-
penditure would not next year effect tho regeneration of
Ireland. la juntice to the people of England he must re •
mind the house that in Nottingham and many
other parts of Great Britain, pauperism and dis-
tress prevailed from want of employment, and that
the same state of things might continue throughout the
realm. To relieve the expenses attendant on the Irish
government, even to the extent of the abolition of the use-
less office of the Lord Lieutenant, nothing was proposed, and
on the whole he thought the measure' of the government
were a mere hotch-potch, out of which something might
emanate. From those proposals, he however did not see even
the shadow of a hope for the present regeneration of Ireland.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had
listened with the greatest attention to the speech of the hon.
member who had just sat down ; but, with the exception of
some points in the plan which his noble friend had laid be-
fore the house, he did not catch from the hon. member one
suggestion with a view to the attainment of the great object
of giving employment to the distressed. Considering the
appalling relations in which we were placed as regarded
Ireland, ha had listened, with great anxiety, for some sug-
gestion or opinion that might guide the government. He
had certainly been gratified by the absence of all party
feeling in the debate—(hear, hear;--and he was sure
the government had been actuated by the desire to do the
best for Ireland under her present circumstances. Although
be believed they had taken the only course that could be
pursued—(hear, hear)—yet, God knew the situation of
Ireland was such that no man could be confident as to the
cause to be taken. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for
Weymouth had criticised the ant passed last session for the
employment of the destitute poor. That bill, however, the
Irish proprietors—who were only to repay one-half of the
money advanced—(Hear, bear)—had availed themselves
of to a great extent; for, up to the let of September, the
sum actually expended under that act was 290,0001., which,
as was well known, had raised the labour market to such
an extent that the farmers were obliged to ask the
government to stop the public works presentments, for these
works were made to the extent of 1,300,0001., and to say, there-
fore, that it was a measure to which the landed proprietors
did not consent, was most inconsistent. (Hear, hear).
When the hon. gentleman talked of the government not
having charged the land with the maintenance of the poor,
he forgot that the repayment was to be made seconding to
the poor-rate, and not the county ens; the former falling
only on real property—(hear. hear)—and, moreover, the
works were carried on for the purpose of relieving the poor.
(Hear, hear). His noble friend was accused of having
said that it was immaterial whether the works
were of a uselem character or not, but what
he really did say, was, that, as far as the relief of the poor
went, it was immaterial, inasmuch as the money was put
into their hands for the purchase of food, and the labour was
given as some test of destitution. (Hear, hear.) The hon.
gentleman had also said that if the works bad been of a pro-
fitable description the gentry and landed proprietors of
Ireland would have contributed the whole of the charge ;
but he was not sanguine enough to think so, for it would be
remembered that last session an act passed the legis-
lature granting 50,0001. in aid of useful works, a
idler amount to be contributed in Ireland ; applications
were made from landed proprietors, but when it was found
that a contribution equal to the amount advanced was re-
quired, not one of such applications was persisted in. (Hear,
hear.) The bon. gentleman and the noble lord opposite had
said it was not the fault of the landed proprietors that the
public works had been carried on to so great an extent, and
bed not been productive of better results. Some of the Irish
landlords had certainly exerted themulres very much, and
among them were many of ;the; absentees—it was only that
slay he had heard that Colonel Wyndham was furnishing
dolly rations to 10,000 people—(Hear, hear)—but the higher
description of occupies had neglected their duty most
gremly. The officers of the public works stated that whereas
the theory was that the sessions should present for works for
the relief of distress, and the relief committees should inves-
tigate such distress, whilst tbegovernment gave employment,
the practice had been for the sessions to present without any
knowledge or inquiry as to the distress, the relief commit-
tees had entirely neglected their duties, granting relief
without discrimination, and the whole burden had been
thrown on the officers of the public works (bear, hear);
and he would ask the house hew could such duties be
best performed—by officers of the engineers or by
the resident gentry end proprietors? (Hear, hear, hear.)
The extent of the public works—the number of persons em-
ployed upon them, amounting to half a million—and the
number of persons required to superintend theta being con-
sidered, it was impossible to prevent abuses. In the county
of Clare the officer of the public works struck off in one fort-
night 6,000 persons who had been improperly pat upon
them. (Hear, hear.) The board of public works, in their
lest report—that of January—stated that if greater self-
reliance had been exercised, and more employment gives by
private individuals, the task thrown upon them would
have been lighter and the charges smode against them
would have been avoided ; and that, notwithstanding the
abuses to which the 'yenta might have *men liable, it furnished
temporary relief to half a million of persons, and five times
that number of human beim:. who depended on their