The Express.
London, England, 1851-12-25 00:00:00

111 members ; in Buckirighluushire, with a population of
1113,67(1, II members; in Huntingdonshire, with a popula-
tion of 60.3'20,8 members; in Shropshire. with a population
I. of 213.019, 12 *embers ; so that 63 members were returned
from these counties with a population 0(467,699 persons or
as many members as were returned by Lancashire and
Yorkslitre with a population of :1,832,660 persons. if they
took the votes in these counties they found that 62,20
voters there returned to parliament the same number of mem-
bers thot 163,2140 voters did in Lancashire and Yorkshire.
If Lord John Russell had, by some fanciful arrangement
under his last Reform Bill, placed the people of Lancashire
1 and Yorkshire in the same improper position in reference to
1 the return of m..rubers to parliament, in which lie had placed
those of the other counties referred to, then we should now
be returning 275 members instead of 63. That showed

pretty closely what our present representative system was.
Ile said and would contend, that until the merchants of
this county end of Yorkshire aasertad their right to be
equally represented, vote for vote, and man fur man, in the
House of Commons with any agricultural county in the king-
dom, they neither asaertOd their just independence, nor
fet as they ought to do upon a great political question.
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear."? Lord John Russell had
done wrong not to receive this deputation ; for, it any-
thing could be charged against that deputation, and
against the men who met at that conference, one thing
more than another, it was this, that they had uniformly
given him a support which was neither purchased nor
bought, nor induced by the slightest prospect of office ;
that Lord John had neeived from those gentlemen a sup.
pert on an occasions leurtle.more than all the purelt.wed
'rapport ho could receive from those members who were re-
turned from the various counties which lie (the chairman)
had enumerated. (Hear.) If those gentlemen had saeri•
Aced themselves—if they had lost in public opinion, from
one cause more than another, it was because they hail uni-
formerly been desirous of affording to Lord John Russell
and his gesfernmaat, oa alloaessikas. the greatest support
in their power. lie said, as he had said before, without in
I the smallest degree wishing to prejudge what the measure
of Lord J. Russel might be, or offering him anything but
thanks, that he had announced his intention to present to
the people of England a Reform Bill; without wishing to
prejudice the minds of the people in any way unfavourably
to the reception of such Reform Bill ; hut confining himself
strictly, as was his duty, to the mere circuingance of his re-
fusal to receive a deputation so constituted—he could not
for one moment but say that Lord Juhu Russell bail offered,
ho would not tray au insult ; but he had moat :I,,Ura:tn:ay foiled
to do that which Lord Melbourne, the Duke of Wellington,
Sir Robert Peel, and all the premiers of England for years
past, had invariably accorded to every deputtuion tiorn
these towns. (Hear.)
Mr. BRIORT, M.P., said it was needless to preface the
resolution he was about to move with any observations
after what the chairman had said. Ile was bound to say
that his opinion was, that not ce,ly had Lord John
Russell not done that which lie should have done ha
refusing to see the deputation, but he thought further
that his lordship heel not given them the true reason for
what he hail done. (near, hear.) Ile comidered the reason
given by his lordship as our that was decidedly evasive, as
well as most uneatisfamoty. (Heir, hear.) Ills lordship
said that it would be very inconvenient to receive " depu-
tations from particular districts, on a subject of this nature,
in which the whole country was interested." Mr. Wilson
hail referred to the custom in past times; and they all i
knew what that was. They knew that Sir Robert Peel—
who, he took it for granted, knew the duties of a prime I
minister quite as well as Lord John Russell—reeeived
very large deputation* on a subject in whic't the whole
country was interested some ten years ago, hut special
interest upon which happened at that particular moment to
be concentrated in this district. With regard to this par-
ticular .prention, Mr. Wilmer hail stated the reasers why
they hail perhaps a stronger interest, LIZ far as their
own feelings went, than was felt in many other parts of
the country. W:th regard to the general question of
reform and of good government, all parte of tire country
were interested; but with rcganl to the question whether
one part of the country had a fair amount of whatever
representative power was given, it was quite clear
that this part of the country, where at large a propor-
tion of the population dwelt, had greater reason to
complain of the present distribution of the electoral
power, than any other district of the country. (hear.)
this was the reason why the deputation hail a special
claim that they might represent this case to Lord John
Russell; because, not only would they have laid before
him the resolutions and the speeches at the nit eting—and
probably one part of the reason for his lordship's refusal
was that he had a. en the resolutions and speeches in the
papers—but they would have been enabled to communicate
to him a great deal that he would nut gainer from the reso-
lution. and speeches,—that was, the individual opinion of
various members of the deputation who could have spoken
as to their knowledge of the op'
ons of those of their own

TILE 31ANCEIFATER RE'eORNI CONFERENCE

AND THY. I'UNIIIER.

.1 twisting was held at Newall'a-buildint4, Man
r, ,in et. toy afternoon in the /hot,/ News
s•un!ay). f.ir the ptitla..e or rectitior thii reply of laird
John to the litter of the Right lion. T. Milner
M.P., 11, king his lortliihip to grout an intirricw
wpb a iteplit.dion appaintt.l at the recent conference of
fcrorrxr. in Woo:beater. Mr. lirintraz Wil,coN took the
'hair. and amour tbt ttenticiarinpreeent were, John Bright,
Kori.hatr, , M.P.. Sir Ellainth AT.
Veil Ald rinaa Benham, and )1, -.pi. Ittnry A-haorth,
tootle.. Ilad.;-1,1, Theca •-• Urunife.Jobaffrunity, 11..njuinin
scald, 1 Wineui Wrigley, John *Moore. W. Shattlewortb,
liawarin. end Job Uri rho.
The PHA lILMAN, after rtatita the o'iject of t!le meet
io:, the an,etr of lowit Ifta,tt:l to the appliea-
te,a of Mr. .o.:!ner Liihron, M.P., waa is the following
Ut ra. :

...-- .
s• Woburn Abbey, Dee. 13. Ifsil. --
rheas with ahem they associated in their own district,
" Lord John Hassell pro, et, his compliments to Mr. (near, lime.) He had formed a very improper, notion of
Nilnee Oilosen, and i+ sorry he cannot hen free a deputation
the duties of a prime minister in a entanti• utional and repre•
feint the cok:, nee which wee lately held at Manrheder
him *mot:dive country, if the conduct of Lord John Russell was
tliatket th:nreltia"..,''n-h.lllhlr'ginZtenat,oncY ~cenhi:cL,et* ini,t,,,,UP,Te,isniigli:i,"l:". to be approved. (Roar, hear.) If his lordship hag intended
latices from paatieelar district. rot • qubject of this nature, to being former,' a measure .: Morin each D. would meet
in whichthe whole country i• inrered• 61." the views of that large pert): it, the country who had advo-
cated reform at all, it appeared to him (SIT. Ili ight) that
Ile(theekairmennhouglit. bower, r, thut Lord J. Itu-seil
_A hotoad of confining hineoef to the little circle of his own
)Idw enci*diLelY cO4cet the "'""i". b.' "1 in.".o rearty connexien. or contenting hitn.elf with the meagre
to r. Manor reify-ewe on the oubject of this CutireTenee. L.,.........,,".6 y iodiri,hi, wooi or scouts of hi.
(Ikel.) ll' could nut think flint i'uck an until"' ciceinu" might up in ve;ious parts" of the country, dust it
et tent se that wee would ever in the olighte.t de tree con should have bees precisely what his lerdellip wished, that a
Came to the minium:knee of the. proper spirtt tit onuaan- dozen or twenty gentlemen of education and influence, and
location hell ixt the prime minister of this country tied greet kn,,,wivai4c a their,,,,,,,pet.,tive localities, should meet
et many greet employers of labour as were reipreeeided at
that conference. (Bear, hear.) Thera Rae not a country him 02 the subject.
him in Downing-street, and here a free conversation with
(Hear, bear.) What was the good of
a the world in which, erne erg lel to the representatives men going to see Sir Cleuless Wood—and he contented there
eferrirat wealthy, commercial, and presluctive classes (es was not very much good in it—(" hear, hear," and
Bey were else tact at that conferetuses), the governeoeut Lingliter)—bet what was the ;Dena of any deputatiot.
who ther de is or re pr. st nett ie.-, ',mid not Leve been
goito see the Chancellor of the Exchequer previous. to
priest to Icier teem those geode:men, statements which they tintroduction of the budget ? Why did they go from
Might ini di- vowel to make of
refereuee to rho proceeding
Manchester and Liverpool about the tea duti. s, and from
fie the fatur, provermeent of the couittry.
Why' uk2t was the metropolis about the window deities? Merety because
it that the deputation asked ? Merely to have an opportu- they happened to have a stronger melee of the injustice per-
Idly of Placing before Lied Julio liweell ouch reanonx as
retrated, and were therefore the people the soonest and the
mime occur to an) our of the member, of the deputation,
(rudest to complain. If lord John Russell had any wish
ter itreieg um u him a very large eat, in ion uf the franchise,
to ascertain the opinion of people such as the recent depu-
...l more mete:Laity so far es they were personally and indi-
__, tenon was composed of. and unless he was better se-
hewer. Lord Join. said ID hi+ letter that the whole country than he (Mr. Bright) supposed he was, he had lent u
is MU-rented in the Te:oltil bilL Well, now, not one of three
NMI dell by hi. conduct. (Bear, hear) Probably Lord
ratlemen would Mite upon Idabel( to say that such was
John thought that if he admitted this deputation, be might
leot the feet • tut if lel the country were hiterested in the soon have another from Birtuineham—(hear, lieur)—and
impu.il re-fi'eni bill (whisk was per ups the tat) they were
perhaps he might. But he (Mr. Bright) did not know what
mere v.pecially hitertetcd, more interested them any other
fi a prime minister was fur, unless it was to endeavour to con•
part of the reentry except the metrupoii. itnelf;
h'esu'e o' duct the guverurnt nit in acconleuce with the principles of
th. surer pee, true i of members to p.tpuhiemn and to pre-
, the constitutien and the wishes of the people. (11. ar, hear.)
pony, which 1:1 I hitherto exintedin reit feta%
lien in paalittm.wt. (Api,lwww..) It w ~, very anl'hy'auPwrcamt'hhal: If hie lordship meaut to shut himself up in Woburn .11they,
ur some other aristocratic seclusion, and to take only the
if a ride, popuintion and rateable property went together,
opinion of his own iuntiedi tie party—it it dozen or so mem-
end the former would ions • criterion of the latter.
Then bern of a clique were to di aw out what was to be the govern
in all (settee- arguments with nepect to the redistribution ment of the countiy fur some fifty years to come—we we:e
of the clurtural peter (of the preset dietribittion of which
re. Ily in no bettor position than some et the nations abroad.
it was that they had must mama to complain), ail they had
te do was, a.. a rule, to take the population, and make that that we had been pitying a, much of late. (" blear, hoar,"
be bads of their aiiiiiiceticm to parliament for such rediotri- and applause). Lord John Hewn might have u better
reason than he had chosen to give; all lie (51r.Bright) would
Lenore and they weal tint that they would arrive pretty
that y was, that the moon given way wholly unsatiseictury,
Harty, ooh at Oat whiele they would obtain, but at
anyd, wl;at was more, he was bound to tell his lordship Bud
which ought to he the prop.rtion of members to population
for tee time tom:rue What we- their position i The two he did not think it was the true one. (Hear, hear.) lie
would move the following resolution, which he thought
Beauties more 4.1 cei.ll:y represented tit the conference ~.... moderately expre,„i his own opinion, and he see.
ha 1, according to the Lot cent us, a population of 7
peeled also that of the meeting : —"1 het this meeting ree
z...512,m49, or, in Yount nrimbere, 4,000,000. Lance-
., frets extremely that Lord John lees-sell has decliiied tu
shire, which: contained the largest DOD
telaaty la the kingdom, had 2,oo3.ul,6daintind nt-onruk? the deputation uppoiuted at the late conference, awl
i rennet but regard the reeson asoignol a. eva.ive and unea-
shire, which was the Patel largest county for popnla-
et i tnfactory. That on a question of an improved reprenenta-
tlen, hail 1,71:14,767 inhabitants. The grow population
cen...:
Lieland and Waleo, Itempline to the lent ' lion, the opinions ut a de-putatien, appointed at a confer-
Wnn I enee representing to a large extent the feelings of the pepu-
-17.i,22.968, in round numbers 14,000,040. In England the
i lation of the two most populous counties in the L mud
tomtit, Mere reproiented by 111, and the borouelis by 323
King:lone cannot be without influence, and have • strong
tee 21Ocri, menu; the total of 160. In Wales the: counties .
claim on the respectful considertition of the government;
"ii re repro-seated by LI, and the bOrOualle by It memhers,
and this meeting expressers its apprehension that the roam
niesiug 29, or a total for England and We ,les of lee mem.
taken by the minister is nut calculated to increase the con-
' and if they took Sudbury, which ha(' Seen disfran-
I ficlence of the reformers of the I; anted ii i ngdoin in his iutention
i eed, it would make .iO9, the number allowed for ling- bring forward a substantial tonsure of parlienumeery re-
: : .I and Wales under the arrangement made by the pre.
fatne" lie should be happy if he were able to believe, not-
, ,t lieforni Ihll, thus giving. one tie MIXT for rat coy 36,4kkl witlutundieg the course token, that Lord Julio Russell felt so
'1 tht putaii2tiJa. . LanCalar.re sad Yorkshire contained much with them and with the people on this question, that
~ than our-fourth, but more thee ottediftle of the whole
he bad made up his mind to bring forward some great and
eieulatiun of the killttiloni. and they returned °isle sixty- broad measure upen which he could in future bow his elm-
,uli e useenhers, viz., twenty-xix from lAneatehire and thirty-
racier as a statesman, and which should give satisfaction
', veil from Yorkshire. Their fair ploportion—not that
the great bulk of the people ; but looking at the obvious
x. now Rranzed with reference to the small boroughs--
advantages which there were in receiving the deputation
`" odd he 107 members ; so that they were at the present
and doses slug the question, and while they all wished, as
el ,oent ripe, sented by 44 members lots than they ought to
he believed, to have confidence in the minister, he mot
1.: and wittild be, if they enjoyed a representation based
confess that his hopes of env gloat and good measure were
upon imputation. Many people might say, " Why take po- .
in no degree strengthened by the course which his lordship
pulation as your basis ? It alway s had been taken on the e_., wk.,. (Hoar, hear.) From a sense of the respect clue
neer side of the question. In the arrangement of the """
to themselves end to the cause in which they had tale is
I h nous Ire:form But Lord Julie Bussed proptreed to dio ,
part, they were bound to express their opinions in a manner
ft-echire all taw
havnig less than 2,000 inhabitants.
at lead rut strong as that embodied in the resolution. Ile
Meer, hear.) He reeognited the principle of population
doubted very much whether the feeling which Lord John
"'tit regard to disfranchisement, and would any man tell
Ruesell's refusal to in, et the deputation had created
ese (the chairman) that it should not alt be taken as the . throughoot many parts of the country ea. not to the full
li-ileciple with respect to eofranchis !meat ? He would take
..."A .al strung as that which ha-1 been created here, and which
tee, cetera in Laucethire and Yorkshire. Suppose they ''''''' I was conveyed through the resolution ; and he should,
not rote fie lute they claimed the right to exercise the, theraore, conclude lay moving that the resolution lie
eine 'seined inductee on the Muse of Commons as was • eeopw. (Applause.)
te.rried by any voter in one of the smeller boroughs, who '''''
eia,.4 contest that eight ?In Lanced:ire—borough and r. M KERH SAW, Mon .P., in oreding the resolution,
t"-fn re e—the were 77,-.'e l voter. on the register, and in assured tee ttli etinic that he did so mine with regret than
y'
.41"1"if 83,019, making a total of 163,180. The total' with auger. (Hear, hear) lie had urver met with atty•
t?filer of voters—boroueh sad cotedy—in England and! thing in the cohcluet of the prime minister that had more
,
"4s, was 857,116. They had, ta' refure, in these two I surprised him than Lord J. Bunsen's course with regard to
i •4414's little less than one-filth of the voting power this deputation. Ile agreed with the view Mr. Bright Lad
,i'' lac country, and they had only 19 per cent. of taken, and thought it must be manifest that this was an en-
'''`',TUtere. ACeOldin yet - 1 f they ' tircly new course of pm ce ding with regard to deputations.
g to votes as to pope a ton,
vatted to have at the pevent time, with • fair arrange- A more puerile and inconointent reason, as it appeared to him,
tau"( Ifs members ; and according to population these was never given es an excuse for any public act. If Lord J.
t4v fealties ought to be re 1 b 107 bees Russell had Kehl, " I hare merle up my mind to a measure ;
:- en present:, y mem •
ri'''''e they looked how this arrangement worked on government has deci led el.o n it,
and we doctor wish to hear
tai other side. litre returned iu Lancashire and York- an this which comes (ruin any constituency." he could
~,c'ic. to members to peril t tit. Well, now bow have understood this, but he confessed his inability to un-
' I'l members returned by other counties, and derstand the tenement which Lord Johu Baleen lied
~,-"
'''''t 1,41 their population ? In Wiltshire, with a made, that it would be inconvenient to the ministry to re-
' g-alittion of 211,003 to, 18 member were re- eeive the deputation. He thought it was the duty of the
famed; in Don pcetahire, with .a
population of 177,4597, ministry to hear what the representatives (for so he might