The Express.
London, England, 1853-07-21 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—WZDNEsatT, JOLT 20.
The Sre.a►ca to.,k the chair at noon.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
REPORTS OF I* COMMITTEES AGREED TO
AND BILLS ORDERED TO STAND lOU tutu)
READING.
Ayrshire and Galloway (Smithtown and Dalmellington)
Railway; Caledonian Railway (connecting branch with
ildinhergh and Glasgow Railway, &c) ; anal Farago
Railway.
The Severn and Wye Railway and Canal Bill was read
a third tame.
l'auneelort Duncombe's Estate Rai was real a second
time.

PUBLIC BUSINESS.
CLITIIEROE ELECTION. -COMMITTAL OF A
WII NESS.

Mr. 0. A. HAMlLioiappeare d at the bar and re-
ported that Robert Fowler, one of the witnesses before the
Clitheroe election committee, bed twin 'silty of prevarica-
tion in giving his evidence, and that be tMr. Hamilton)
chairman of the committee had committed him to the cus-
tody of the Sergeant-at•Arins to await the pleasure of the
house.

VACCINATION EXTENSION BILL.
Sir J. PAKINOTON moved the second reading of this
bill, which he sail had received the sanction of the other
house of parliament, and the object of which was to pro-
vide better seeuritii fur the protection of the public
against the ravages of the small pun. The voluntary sys-
tem having been tuund insufficient, it was newreast7 to
make vaccination compulsory, arid it was for that purpose
the bill bad been introduced by a noble friend of his (Lord
Lyttelton) in the House of Lords, and having been affirmed
by that branch of the legislature, it had now come down fur
the assent of the House of Commons.
Lord I'ALM hits rON gladly supported the motion for
the second reading, upon the understanding that the right
hon. baronet would, between this and the committal of the
bill, turn his mind to the subject, with a view to make such
alterations in the details as would make the bill less liable
to the objections to which it was now open. (Hear.)
Mr. BRADY opposed the bill as being impracticable and
wholly inadequate for its purpose.
Sir 0. STRICKLAND objected to the bill because it
was compulsory.
Mr. FREWEN would also vote against the bill. It was
proposed to enforce vaccination before the child was three
months 041, under a penalty of from If. to U. But how
were they to compel payment of this penalty as against the
poor?
The motion for the second reading was then put and
agreed to—the opponents of the bid declining to divide
against it.

♦I'TORNEYS' CERTIFICATE DUTY.- TUE AD-

VERTISEMENT DC I Y.

On the order of the day for, the second reading of the
Attorneys' Certificate Bill,
Lord R. GROSVENOR thought that this was one of those
occasions when on appeal might be made to the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, and that his tight hon. friend would have
thanked him for the opportunity of conferring a boon
upon the class whose cause he advocated, who
were suffering from a special grievance, and the
majority of whom suffered severely. There was one other
circumstance to which he mast allude, and that was the
alteration which the Chancellor of the Exchequer bad
made in the duty. Ilia right how. friend might think him
very um.trateful to say se, but really that proposition was
more distasteful than the original tax itself. In his speech
is introducing his financial scheme, his right hon. friend
stated that the attorneys had suffered by retest legislation,
and that there ought to be some remedy. The remedy
which he proposed was to take off owe-fourth of the duty,
viz., 3/. out of 121. in London, and 2/. out of 81. in the
country ; and then to reduce the duty on articles of clerk-
ship. That reduction, which was not asked for, was
pleaded in bar to the further consideration of the subject.
He did not know what could have induced his right how.
Edged sot to treat the advertisement and certificate duties

L the same comprehensive manner as he had dose
ether taus. The ulble :ord concluded by moving the
woad reading of the bill.

Mr. bl URROUG II said they were about to vote for •
political sham, sad if h. (Mr. )lurrousgh) bad con-
sulted life own &shop. he would have stayed
away altogether, but he was uswillicre to lot
the sable lord go sway without hie hamlets; his (Mr.
111 strangles) feeltegr, and that of the majority of the pro-
fession with regard to his conduct. The noble lord had
pestpased his bill till the fag sad of the session, when all
the junior neembers of the bar, and the frioads of the at.
terneye—(lend Isughterh—were en circuit. Ilea. pa-
tients night laugh, but ke hoped it was at the noble bid'starmac (,aughter )
r. HUME dseeld give his inseams opposition to this
motion ; set besenee he loved the tan, or was an enemy of
the atterson—for was a hand of every attersoy—
(a laugh)—sad wished him to be relieved ftom tazation—
bet only as ems of the sosemunitv.
TM,CRAMCELLORofth.k.XCHEQUERsaid he would
state the reasons why he should all on the house not to adopt
this proposition, bat he could sot give any assurasee that is
the seat. any future year that he would repeal this duty,
and for this names, that whatever might be the Amadei
prospects of the wintry, there were ether subjects of logis-
laties which bad far awn Imperative claims than this tan
es a Chancellor of the Subplot and the hoes*. (Hem.
lieu.) He could not give any snob pledge, for
he maw a long amy of claims fee eaesaption
from Meath* which, la his opiaion, were of a
higher nature than this duty. He did peonies a ',dus-
tiest in the certificate duty sa equable reduction both I.
the certificate duty and the duty payable on articles of
elerkship, the nlatioas between the two duties being fairly
imiataieed, fee be thought it might have boss sionsid' ered
unfair if the "'Letitia' between them duties bad act bees
esaistaieeil. He would aow in a few words resat to the
louse a statement of the position of the rename. 0a the
18th April he bed stated the changes which he proposed to
make is the fiscal regulations of the country, and he them
calculated that he should have • surplus fee the year of
495,0001. Since, some changes bad takes place, and be was
able to speak more positively on many subjects with
which be then had to deal, and the result was
materially to alter the state of things, he then
described. His noble friend must not found himself
on the last quarter's returns of the ; for, though
no doubt they indicated a prosperous and increased state of
the revenue, yet I. some respects they would prove falla-
cious, for it would be fouled that they had been swelled by
accidental circumstances. Looking at the present state of

the ematry, and including is that view the prospects of the
ooaiag harvest, it he wee to sub the home to go into the
gaieties et the revenue and to make a sew estimate of it
fee the year 1843-54, they would not be able to make a
mere favourable estimate than that which he had brought
Steward in April last. Siam that time it had been moor-
Mined that the expense of the militia would be 52,0001. less
than the vete ; hut, es the other hand, there would be a lees
on the packet service of 36,0001. more than was expected,
while it would set he possible to am a sum of 66,0001.,
which he had Moped to have obtained from retrenchments
La the Clausal Islands. Then was a sum of 100,0001.
which he had stated would be the probable result of the
Isamu' sieseures with regard to Exchequer Bills, but that
would set be available in the present year. This, there
was a ma el 110,0001. which was expected to be received
from liessma, bat he (mid that it was so cut down by re-
duetiese
intesded to satiety the fair claims of parties which
moldiest be resisted, that that sum could not he essaidered
available. Bo that 300,0001. of the surplus was thus disposed
of, sad, eves adding the eme gained from the Mimed esti-
mate he the snide, mew 260,0001. of surplus only would
remain. Pram this it would he secomary to deduct 160,0001.
which would be required to meet some supple-
mental ultimates shish it would be ammeary to
Wag forward, sad all that would thou remain
would he a sum between 60,0001. or 100,0001.
Two demands were made for the repeal of duties ; namely
the repeal of the advertimmeat Ave, tweeting to 80,000 L,
mad the duty oa attaenys• sertikates, oho animating to
80,0001., sad emargoently if both them duties were re-
pealed they would have to carry es the financial year sot
with a earplug but with a deficit. Something had bees said
of a tacit saderetanding which existed Detweeo himself and
the right hem patiBMILS the member for Maaehester; but
whatever sadentoading existed, it was not tuft but our
opekes ; and whatever bad bees conceded by him (the
Chaamßer if the Exchemier) to the right hem tentlemes
the member for 11asehreter, in Medea to these duties,
was so noes than he had stated to Me midi lord two deys
ago, whoa he called es him with regard to the gaieties.
(Bear, Mu.) The goversmost was asked to repeal
duties satesstiss to 100,0001. is some of 110,0001.
melt, and to Mart is the Inamial year sot with
surplus, but with a; debit. The government was of opi-
nion that it would be the most prudent course to stake
mither of those redustiese of duties. They had proposed
their own plan, and how was it received by the limas ? Ha
did net refer to chases divisions which had bees takes lets
is the sartiag ; but than wee • resent division ow the
gaieties of the advertisemest duty which showed to him
and Ms colleagues that there was a steam feeling is the
haw is favour of the repeal of the advertisement duty.
It woo the °plaint of the goverameat that that duty ought
set to be repealed, and it was quite clear that both them
duties could sot be repealed. Bat the goversmest had so
►f it was a goosing between the repeal of the
me or the other of them duties—if the home premed on the
government the repeal of the advertisement duty, however
wooed it might be to what they thought Usit strict duty,

and if they had to consider where they were to take their
stead, there could be no doubt that they ought to take their
stand against the repeal of the duty on attorneys' sertilt-
rates. They admitted that the house had expressed a
strong desire for the repeal of the advertisement duty, and
the g eat placed both those duties before them, and
said that, in their opinion, if one of those duties wee to be
repealed, it ought not to be the duty on attorneys' certificates.
There was, therefore, no tacit understanding on this subject
but such as had been made known to the noble lord. He
had new explained the position of this matter as regarded
the financial condition of the country, sail he bad declared
;that he could give no pledge with regard to the course to
be petalled in !attire years, and he had also stated the views
of the government, and their belief that it would
not be consistent with their duty to secede to the
repeal of the duty on attorneys cortifieates; and
he could only leave the question in the ban Is of the house,
hoping that this subject would not continue to be made a
tax in another form, namely, a tax on the time of the house,
but that there would be a decisive expressicn of opinion as
Ito what course would be taken with respect to it, and that
they would be enabled to apply themselves to other hula-
, nese in future sessions without being interrupted by dis-
CUSSiOnS on the duty on attorneys certificates.
After a few words frou Colonel Sie moue.
Mr. EWART said, he was one of these who supported
the c-peal of the advertisement duty, and also the repeal
l
of the duty on attorneys' certificates; but es be had tol
ehoosc between the two duties, he could not hesitate to give
his assent to the repeal of the advertisement duty, which
affected all classes of the community, believing that he
should, by so doing, best discharge his duty to his consti-
tuents and the country.
Mr. MAGUIRE was one of those who voted in the
chance divisions on the motion of the member for Manches-
ter, which had been alluded to ; but lie had not spoken on
the question of the repeal of the advertisement duty, as it
might have appeared that he was influenced by personal
motives. If he was influenced by mere personal motives,
he should now vote against the motion of the noble lord ;
but he should not do so, and he had stronger reasons than
ever for taking that course since the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had said that the attorneys were bred up to pay
this tax. But, at least, they were not bred up to pay the
income tax. The recent law reforms had cut doan their
business and their nrofita, and they were therefore more
entitled to this indulgence than before.
The house divided—
For the second reading
illgaituit it
NUNNERIES BILL—ADJOURNED DEBATE.

On itil!lMO
Mr. SOW YER asked the opinion of the Speaker with
regard to the form of the motion es it stood on the paper.
He wished to know what motion they were about to discuss.
He understood that on a former occasion the motion that
the words proposed to be left out stand part of the question
had been negatived, and all that now remained was the
word " that.' He understood that the second reading of
the bill was thoreby negatived. The amendment of the
noble member for Bath was not now on the parer ; although
an amendment of his (Mr. Bowyer's), and one of the hon.
member for Meath, remained.

The SPEAKER said the order of the day on the 22nd
June was, that the bill be read a second time, to which an
amendment was moved to leave out all the words after the
word " that," for the purpose of .inserting the amendment
of the hon. member for Bath. Oa that the house divided,
and the y came to the decision that the words in the motion
not stand part of the question ; then the word " that"
stood by itself, and the question to be decided was, whether
the proposition of the noble member 'for Bath should be
and d ; and that was the question now before the house.
Mr. BOWYER—Then my motion that the bill be read a
second time that day six menthe falls to the ground.
The SPEAKER—That motion falls to the ground, and
that question rennet now be entertained.
Mr. J. BALL then proceeded to address the house, and
objected to the motion of the noble member for Bath, as well
as the bill. He thought this the first of a series of move-
ments to engage the legislature in an attack on institutions
of this nature. He urged that the means taken to get up
as egitation on this subject were derived from the obsolete
literature of the Bowen catholic church of the middle
ages. He asked if these institutions were not of such a
character as to deserve, if not the encouragement of the
government, at least their undisturbed existence, and he
enlarged on the benevolent objects to which they were
devoted; for almost all conventual establishments were
directly engaged in the work of education and the relief of the
poor and &Mimed. He quoted the opinion of Voltaire
and also of Dr. Forbes, an eminent physician of the present
day, with regard to the usefulness and benevolence of the
Sisters of Charity. He then urged that it was not that the
how was to be asked to grant to these institutions sums of
mosey or lands, but only that their inmates might have the
same liberty which other persons enjoyed to devote them-
selves to acts of charity and benevolence. Probably the
most flourishing of the so-called " religious " societies in the
coastry at the pr. sent time were, not those which were in-
teadtd to promote the spread of religion or morality, or
even to carry on proselytism bTaolizitimate means, but
those whose object was to revile n eatholics. Those
societies were composed of men who disavowed anything in
10•111011 except their animosity towards the faith to
which be (Mr. Ball) belonged. Such bodies rejoiced in
different same*, but their object was the same. There
was the "Protestant Assoeistioa," the "Evangelical
Alliance," tho " Protestant Alliance," and so forth.
Atrocious as were the libels which were showered upon es-
thetics, he did sot ask the house Mt any meaas of redress.
He felt sionfideet that in the long :run truth would prevail ;
but be did implore the house not by any act of theirs to
give these persons the least shisdow of 'neon t.
Mr. E. BALL said that throughout his life 6e bad been
eadeavouriag to undimmed something of religion; and, if
he halm anything at all upon the subject, he should say
that its chief feature was charity. (Cheers.) When he
came Ihrwszd for Cambridgeshire, it was very natural that
his rellsbuis opinions should be made the subject of co
ast-
dead& dismission. For them opinions he had suffered
these* Rib I and be thought it better and more straight-
fawned to Nees la bin address that he was a Dissenter,
al was st the same time strongly attached to the:
ri. etas seesbikbed ehenth. The same liberty that
lee bingnif be was perfectly willing to bestow
span slow Ma was Weer mire that the way to change
the ginismeithesew be considered to hold erroneous
views, woe sot to behave offensively toward them. (Cheers.)
New in skis sees he asked whether any thing had been
proved bible that bete to justify the course theizeanre
called apes tit She ? (Cheers.) He had heard
eathelie mumberamer and over again demand to have some
can bee onasesetisted; and that fact had never been forth-
whom (Hear, hear.) Before they were asked for an
= alz,lasiome grounds ought to be shown for granting it ;
grounds, though often challenged, had
sever be adduced. (Cheers.) They had been told of
young MOM seduced into convents and treated with
cruelty ; and it was said that if they wi•lied to leave,
egress was denied to them. But what would this motion
do to relieve them ? They were detained not by bolts and
bars, bet by the obligation of their solemn vows, and by a
belief that to quit their cells would be to peril their safety
in the world to come. (Hear, hear.) Besides, if they
wished to do • real benefit to women, there was • far
stronger obligation upon them to demand the protection of
the legislature for those numerous unhappy women who
were so shamefully sad cruelly illtreated by their husbands.
(Hear, hear.) Even within the immediate neighbourhood
of that house women were subjected to intolerable ill.roagei
from those who ought to be their protectors. (Hear, hear.)
They had had petitions presented to them against inter-
ference by those whose mothers, wives, and daughters bad
been, or were, inmates of nunneries; and were they to be
told that • lady, who herself had gone through the
routine of • convent life, would ever consent to send her
child to • place where her principles would be contaminated
or her metals corrupted ? (Hear, hen.) He believed
that the Roman catholic doctrines were wrong, and he
regretted that they should have assumed titles so
offensive to protestant*, though he thought it was else
unfortunate that the noble lord (Lord J. Russell)
should ever have written the Durham letter. (Hear,
hear.) He had heard an invitation given to protestants to
go and inspect these nunneries, and he had lately seized the
opportunity of asking • Roman catholic triend to take him
to one—desiring him to do so at once to prevent the possi-
bility of any preparation being made beforehand. His
friend drove him immediately to the convent in Blandford-
square. They rang the boll, and asked to see the
Lady Abbe... His friend, who had never been at
the establishment ibefore, told her that he (Mr. Ball)
was a protestant, and wished to see the building—was there
any objection ? The reply was, " None whatever—pray
emit in, sir." (A laugh.) Well, he went over the whole
establishment, even down to the coal cellars. (Laughter.)
The Lady Abbess said to him, " These are the dungeons
where we keep the unhappy captives you talk of in the
House of Commons," but so captives did he see except the
coals. (Loud laughter.) He row is tbe estat lishment.
hows.sr, a thousand children, partially fed and clothed,
and all as well educated as children should be without any
cost to themselves. (Hear hear.) To educate these chil-
drenwee saeof the tasks' of the nuns, who were charged
with leading such melees lives. (Cheers.) The Lady
Abbess took him to another part of the building, where
he sew • multitude of servants out of place. The Lady
Abbess told him that they received protestants and catholiee
alike ; that they endeavoured to bed them situations, and
that they stayed as long as they pleased. She added that
she believed they were the iastriments under God of
miming multitudes of women from destruction. (Cheers.
He (Mr. Ball) endeavoured to express his sentiments to the
the Lady Abbess, and he entered upon the subject of thee-
Way with her. (Laughter.) Really he did not know a more
seHoss thing, and he could mars the house that he at least
was is earnest. (Hear, bear.) He had a long conversation
with this lady. Of coarse he expected a great degree of
refimment in *as who belonged to the highest aristocracy ;
but he found her so well informed, so thoroughly educated,
so well grounded as Christianity, and eo imbued with •
real Christian feeling, that he went away from the presence
of that lady with feelings of the greatest admiration and
respect. (Cheers.) Nest they proceeded to the convent of the
Good Shepherd at Harnmenmith. The work of that establish-
meat wee the »formation of women who had fallen victims
to the evil peak= of maa ; and be could not but feel the
force of the Lady Abbess's appeal to him. "If it is not
eharity which badman us to undertake a task which brings
us into mats» with the worst of our sex, what else can be
our motive? And yet you repellent us in your House of
Commons as the moot abandoned of human beings."
(Cheers.) He IA that mama with the same impression
as that produced in his Wed by that in Blandford-equare.
Lastl, he went to Rashamptes, that was an educational
establishment; and the whole of the surplus morning from
very high rates of charge for tuition went to the main-
tension of the poor. (Hear, hear.) Now, he would ask,
kiwis( witaused Wee things, was be not boned, at what-

ever cost, to state frankly and fairly what be had seen ?
(Cheers.) Ile felt that be Was ,• aM he must confess the
impression left on his cows swirl by thou convents was, that
they were most useful illstainduseate ; and that the inmates
were influenced by the very hishest motives that could
move human hearts. (Cheers.) He believed that it was
only the fear of God, and a desire to benefit their fellow
creatures, that prompted them to enter such institutions;
and was he then to give his vote in favour of a motion that
would revolt their feelings ? (Hum, bear.) Did he fear
for the interests of protestantism ? Surely not. His fear
rather was, that whatever might be accomplished by all
classes of Christians, it would be insufficient to defeat the
wile* of Satan, and that the great adversary would triumph
over all their efforts. One thing was clear, namely, that in
no way would those efforts be foiled so much as by Christ Mas
indulging in divisions. (Hear, bear.) For his own part
he confessed that he had a prijudice in favour of all thou
who showed themselves zealous for the service of that Great
Master in whose ways it had been the study of his life to
walk. (Cheers.)
Mr. WHITESIDE remarked that if he chose to follow
the arguments of the two lut speakers, he should be pre-
pared to maintain that in exact proportion as popery pre-
vailed, was human liberty crushed, the progress of know-
ledge arrested, and the march of human improvement
checked. (Cheers, and cries of "Oh !") But that was not
the point before them. The real question was, in the words
of his own motion, " to consider whether any and what
regulations were necessary for the prevention of the exer-
cise of undue influence in procuring the alienation of pro-
perty of persons in conventual establishments." (Hear,
hear.) lie scorned to raise a "no popery " cry. lie put
the whole issue upon the simple question of property ;
and he would ask why the law cast around married women
such precautions before they could dispose of their pro-
perty ? Because an undue influence might be exercised
over them by their husbands, and they might be compelled
to part with it against their will. So prisoners in gaols
might not execute warrants of attorney except in the
presence of witnesses. So protection was afforded
to the inmates of lunatic asylums, because persons
in all such situations really required it. They were
asked to adduce proofs why the some protection should not
be extended to persons in convents, but such proofs were
net wanting. With respect to the motion before the house,
they might depend upon one thing, namely, that whether
it was carried or not an inquiry would ultimately be con-
sidered necessary. (Cheers.)
Mr. DIU:DIMOND begged to assure the hon. member
for Cambridge that when he smiled at an observation of
his, he was not the less inclined to be serious upon a serious
subject; but he smiled at the naive simplicity with which
the boa. gentleman had gone through his " First Acci•
deuce" in the knowledge of convents. Indeed the lines
would almost have applied to him—