The Express.
London, England, 1849-04-27 00:00:00

it to the soli' lord egpsite whether it would not be taped
eat to peat the haprisis. (Hear, hem.)
Lord J. RINIKELL eider amesat of peat would
rga=meek eiguloesi by sspostive patties of the
issues sod espasilleoe kr the par. (Laughter.)
Mr. COCHRANE NM he maid onicely tote this l'ce isk
NNW/ se his leseiles.
Ladd J. RIIIMELL fedi Nay teasel the Nam?.
doubt is this. este way ears &amour ofs bul'Agas
ie
as a seehriel ossomay right be b- alma
• WA Uths lree were to vote ao taae
ois sad 100," shore for the:" el wan" et
bona ellipittitere would be laset;adowly asmied.
EUSINESS OF TETI nom.
Ltd J. ainggillemaia that, mews winsome sodas
allisekli ea ON 10Ow vbitsa soma likely to occupy the
&Mutes 01,,_10'• Mass edit evil, be thought it would be
bettor_ fog. ara at &Ms Mprime diet the eimatittee on the
Beta is a:4 BM amid be peilgosed tfa teaierrow (this
d4rtThe bowie hada; ipso through the ocanatities on
.y, he should wpm that the report bo received Om
PP.:lley, %Rag It it pima& that there enseild be no die-
t armies ea the esimies. He Amid then props, to take**
tidal Nalikellinsodsy, mad the discussion which he under-
stood ineral podia's& coatemplated could be had then.
PARLIAMENTARY OATHS.
Lewd J. RTRISELL stated is reply to Mr. Augusta'
Shard, that he intended to prowl with the Pulls:seater,
Oaths Bill on Monday se'anight.
CONTRACT PACKET SERVICE.
Oa the mocks of Mr. HEMLIBY a select committee on this
subjest was greeted by the goevrameat.
POOR LAW AMENDMENT (IRELAND).

Lord J. RUBBELL tees roes to Wig forward the bill of
which he bad given notice, the hoe. umbers who had
priority over him in the order of business, and more especi-
ally Mr. Olean, having waived their right of pennons.
Toe eels lord said—l me, pursuant to the se whisk is
on the pryer, to more for leave to bring in • bill to amend
the aces kr the more effectual relief of the destitute poor in
Ireland. I weed at a former period of the mission, the
gamed intre of the amendments which I have to
pelisse ha the present Irish poor law ; and it is
now neeemey for me to state farther that although the
unnesithes that is sew Unify en the subject of Ireland has
been yin Ypessemith wry intentions, I have not thought
create se tbe umuthen of that committee to come to any
with respect to them, as they nil ban to take eel-
dense epos the subject. What I new wpm, is entirely sa
the Ability of her Majesty goverement. nen are
some edam palate which 'manse to be lewiththall yen, but I
have an 'thought peeper to mash on them ha this messan, as
the been will probably be called upon to paw • thiseran
with respect to them during the rumen year. TM AM real
I most inspection alteration in the Irish poor-law whist I pro
pees to offset is the introduction of the principle of a mod-
MUM tat. is the eleetetal divisions of the poor-
law steins. This must be admitted to be en
tiedy satiety to the prindples of the pear-laws, as
they me administered in this country. It is assumed se
a ORO* in England that pauperism mast first he relieved
by • nee for the support of tke confirmed poor, sad next
• sets to est to work able-been laborite's. Bet in Ire
where the greatest possible depot of distress sad Kandy
ilsed mists, there hes bees es sistiesows sad so Mary a peus
eame es the mill Summit human sad Ohm peered of
gr
ipe., ea to create • holes of alarm, sad le peseest
the addend's of ON land. Those thelthise
▪ thesmalm the eases of en increased proem of Ms
pawl rates. he they osmium a went of seem he the esp.
ply of Ile pees' rotas`sod thry drape ram
unmet efiesepatioa, sad eeesseuratly earemen Memos
Is baseas puma. It wee thwahes essaidered advisable
by Ur. Twidetea, the chief eammirasser of the poor-law
be belesd, to propose that a thanimunt ate be adopted son
there, and what I have :r le
pose is, that is them
re IaIX
mending 6e. in the shall be vied is my
me year in any electoral dirk on in Ireland, without at the
UM time ailing the other electoral divisions in the mum
union to contribute to make up the amount required to the
eaten of 2a. in the pound more •• the electoral division en
rthis additional rate woold have to contribute Ilela
tahatillesil, sral ropprofsg that such electoral divides es-
7e. be the pees& for the charges of malataiski the
roar in any tea. yen, that electoral division would Iseteemide
Date its 6s. lathe pound and thea the additatheillan *opined
whilst the other electoral divisions in the =lke 11111dli hews
to pay 2s. In addition to the 6s rates impend ups tisk
electoral dieisioes. The rates in the earlier per law mime
of Ireland are very different. In one inane'. I know at a
fernier in an electoral division in a Tipperary miss, nee
pays 2s. ed. in the pound, whilst in other divi-
sions in the same union little or no rates are paid, there be
no surplus or unemployed labour In them. I may be told
that the effected this enurement will be to Indus 1101119 eke-
Coral division to spend all the money they can get by paying
their Is. rates. in order that they may tome upon thew
neighbouring electoral divines for the additional rate of 2a.
But I mann think that this will be the case, for it is obvious
that if the poor in any elesteral division can be supported
by a de. rate, the rate-payan need not run the expense
up to 7s. merely for the purpose of getting their
neighbours to pay an extra 2s. rate. I own I
think it advisable to levy a rate in an electoral
division, which skull net exceed a certain amount. The
guardians of the poor have a control over the expenditure,
and they would prevent a wasteful outlay. The case is a
totally different one from a rate In aid. The main objection
which has been urged—and it is one which I confess mirries
great weight with it—is this, that there may be in certain
unions a total inability to defray the expense of maintaining
the poor beyond the amount to which the rates are to be
limited, snit therefore, as nn more than 21. sea be levied in
any sae year in any poor law anise, there Rust be a deil-
thew la the as required to feed the poor. Bat. on the
ether head, we find now that there are many union in the
wen where a 10s. rats is struck, out of which only 4s. is
ale to be levied, and what we went to effect is to give the
landlords souse security that the rates shall never ex-
ceed a certain sum, and thereby to give a stimu-
lus to the cultivation of the land, which the
i=t state of the law has entirely taken away.
are other amendments which I have to pro-
pose Y the DM Poor Law. One of them is that the corn-
mieduans shall have the power of settling the vast liabilities
west seen of the poor law unless are now under, by re-
hash!' the eldest of these sales'. There is a report extant
hum the beesdery commideseve appointed last year. I
asset sew erase into thee imbleet, hat I may ray
t
that the an may Se Mop the Mem
hp he aides beeradray sod to
the peer law mommiiiimilimihe Pam of combs
they bats Milt. At IM emss thra, I iEst saythat,havras

sidtred. th.
_quad's nLtlh+ to

ad the spiked ingots* on that oddest. I as
ann. to the gssioel ',Won that Mae M preer• with It
wish see be gondol to sake any hither dtlia of
the peeviser *ism without at the ems thee pm-
nWhiled workhouses. I *di, however, de-
. andirstion of that coldest sew, se it ft one
whisksinits of a graded shin* I bet I seat at the
sees line lay that, ea a gems'silo, whenever a new pew-
, ire &Mien is erected, a new weelftenes will have se he
'There win ease be a donee iamb* k the
I bilissekiles the Poor law Uoseeiefsuts to sulikehie rese-
ls* mime mod to west sew workkiesse whom aesenny.
These will dee be anther dune enabling she souses of
!mid pospiely in Inland to dant a poputies of the
pens' rise psi& es their land bon hintares sod Nab-
omit assumed ea their rentals, and I the
pewees to elbet *0
theisge es the poieciple that as theme estileimonh eel
=e in* without any refereaes to the Lei being
with a ins rate, and whoa the law wee May
Motet hen what it sow Is, it is only fek Is woke
die pens& of the lend pay equally all berth's. that
base skis been *posed ea it. ratite jointures sell
mellisnente we, denies, be regulated *wording to Wei I
hike WHIMS ea OM lead. I propose to Rohe an ingoselesil
alleselies In the oeiginel Irish poer-law, in respect to the I
=Mastics Son the sate in spa so 'the I
II wee knob& that YU the rates druid be by
es* pleb the lendiord and the tenant : bat es east I
bee set ben posened, I popes it *ell be 'edded thee I
the Ins* shell k Ware pay belt the este, bat that it be
levied epos the whole of the sent foe irbidi he is liable. The
best way of waft the Milinades end *silos that have
best posh* will be to glee the tame the power of der I
bake the ether half of la isle hen the natal, and es
*Dew el so hother baud* whets:ens With in
wet te the impareeneeds k ankh& mad in ems.
kg annisildbegs es Id* Imaged NW% it his
bees hued that the erten of demr#ng peers**
ups hams* ware el these
bah* the east et delenkg haikeis ken
The essersdearn *sad" w* in been be* the pew*
of one=g ape so* kepasemens from being Ma to the
Me of seven yeas after they *ell bees
= mak I essesive en ledneenent will he
le hope* the of hone end W
os& onstfag fors bnifilega Imam alteedkali&
preeent law which I peeping to :aka is, that press he the
of enema el -peer rata shall have the sleet of a
1:11.92 dense, ad diet le shell be belt se el equal nds•
saw with &Jelinski el die wieder esowle. Asaiher of
Ike pushier) of this hill will side to the cat
palmy isle of hails for the sneers of poor stn. The
quakes le, mho is liable for the peor's-rats., sad who,
es the 'Or
erntiel bend, is themesa lavingj an intent le the
had/ It y smut Is nil Is be task kid.
moods. whisk-is esotherse,shwalil bushust to pay** moonlbe M
pestreeles. I have not thought poor to deal with thin
=k this Dill, bat I base requested sy hon. mad
11111deak the edisher-goserel, le kens a predelea k
=wasineens, wbeemby the ale el laud, uo andi as
in %Ina be regulated. I prepese.es as
usagesemat of the Mee, that the ism shau ben
the Prone of =Let a civil NB halm" and of
hasalletsly u=g tonant. I Wiese I
base new tbe eke
payload*. el tbk
nuelnie, but the WO sews selleteral poise whids
as I have eke*, Meted, it is sot ny Week* to
iodide within lite penes bill. In ny bad Inind le
quite equal le** nelationnee et has
pore in soon et MI
wry }sheiks Isle* I wee einpokod W hallos koh-
l.g ago some her Joe ray.bst, that the numbs
of &inhale' pose as the is Inlaid last rear
was se gnomes See 70,000: ht laalaail,is the year
up the wee woo. The proportion k Inked is sr-
ably esseecr, sandhi te the smug a/ neseinguLsos
in Megised, bat them the sonsity sad findeiwilie pee grog
eirdwilisk period is than aeon*
Irolaad will more n* fir
Thfinlite it is, I mod widsa that under the
nee
y eineeiskase of the inm3so mad potato-rot, the ramilese
et ele-beked be enspieted eat of the Bold=
Iso. at ell ee be Ivanhoe& et. My build
the *she yens, Wend has skews keredf to be quits able
to sipper. her ewe pew, and with then obiersibes I beg
Lew to sees kr have to being in the bill whisk I have
dessibed.
- -

The gentles beim( seseeded sad pat from the dude,
Mr. STAFFORD add the gnat halt whkh had chaise-

Meisel doe muse* Iris! 'ot- Wry! *meta tame INA
boss eto upped pagoo'_,__ ....kaa
So buns el •`" •••°"'••••••-• Trim*, dlfild this ips•
.e auto ; se the.% owingeg be ho
uslidasslso. '. assumed. oiling had bessesd. ile omens&
1. ..e• the peeper*. between eaplial and upeaMe.; err,
d Weer wer the population was wry rapidly rerallowleg
ap what of meta wee yet left (Hear, hear.) That bdag
Rlt wealbe impetrate for the mask lord to go as palish-
Ind up his Irish peer law, be the very simple nano, that
there would be sbertly no material left for hiss to trek
upes. leek us already the can at present in a pat of
Inland, and he evoke advisedly when he aid that through-
out one her* el the whole ormady the 1184111 w sums
sompletslyembereded• sad Mine by sztranesuudgeloggehas
the lives @Me Meddles souldbew6ussewei. negegloleed
commenced klespmekby dealing aneletbsgmesatgur
tied, that of the medium rate; and beundeseleaddle agile
low to may that though he was remind Upset *e=
of a .anima. rate, the me Mae Me a
bound to the nun of se. annul &via= er ht. oaks ode,
That was a very *portent point ; but the noble lad did
not say, and it was a great omission, what was to be dew
when the rates in say *stored division exceeded ye. is the
pouad. (Hear, hear.) When that maximum should be
restaged and the Is. should be ashausted, than be wonted to
know from what grant was the poverty of the district to be
supported. In connexion with this part of the subject, hew-
ever, he mast *pus it apes the noble lord that there was
one. thing of infinitely greater importance even than the
amount at which the meant= rate might be fixed, and that
was, its catmint (Hear, hug.) Let them fix the rate at
what they pleand, but whatever they did they mud willed
it. With reaped to the area of taxation the nail
lord stated, that he intended on the whole he
adopt the report of the boundary commbelemes
Whether they adopted that report or not, apposed to
him (Mr. Stafford) to be practical. a matter of little SPEW
quests, as he did not erectly see to what it tended; but be
must repeat what he had said on former ocoolons, that us.
less the area of taxation were made far smaller than it wee
at present, they would fail altogether in seeming erg geed
effects from the poor law. (Hear, hear.) The may mane
tonsure the good working of the poor law was to make it •
adman, to labour, and unless they did that, they would
swamp the property long before they removed the poverty
of Ireland. The noble lord did not state that he prop
to alter the in of the wines; and whilst on this port of the
question he was reminded that the right boa. baronet the
member for Taatworth, in his speech upon the rate is aid,
complained that the unions had not repaid the debt et
1,100,0001. whist was owing for work..onme. Hewithed
the house to recollect however the cinuatetanees wader whisk
these workhouse were built. They were erected on the Iret
introduction of the poor law, without the slightest reterence
to load guidance as to their site, their in. or construction.
Subsequently they were found to he exceedingly ill-built,
and many of them bad to be enlarged, so that a great part of
the money which might have been devoted to the re-payment
of the loan was upended in enlarging the workhouses.
(Hear, hear.) Haley determined upon increasing the num-
ber of mine, as recommended by Captain Larcom, and
building additional workhouses, then he asked where was
the mean to come from? He certainly thought it would be
hard, first to give the poor law commissioner power to pro-
nouns with reference to Abe alteration of anions without
consulting the guardius, and power to compel the guar-
dians to raise money for building workhonees, and then for
the house to turn nand upon the guardians and complain
that they would not return what they had borrowed from
the imperial treasury. With the view of preventing
this, be should rouse a clause Ia committee pro-
viding that the opinion ot the guardians should be taken in
referees, to proposed new unions, and that if they these to
make new unions they should be auth•rised to 'negotiate
Maas as best they might for that purpose. (Hear, Lear.)
He understood the noble lord to say that the rate hence-
forth wee to be equally divided between the occupier and
the owner of the land, adopting the system at present ht
force in Scotland. In his opinion, however, it would be
preferable that the tax should bear some proportion to the
amount of rent paid, and that persons occupying at above a
certain rent should pay the whole of the rate. He had un-
derstood that in any future bill for the amendment of the
peer law there was to be a clause giving additional facilities
be emigration, and enabling electoral divisions if they
=lt to levy an emigration rate. The noble lord had
to allude to any such clause, but he hoped that it
had net seeped the noble lord's attention. (Cheers.) Re-
lining mess 'phi before be mat down t
o the sire of the arca
of treed.. be weld starve that he bad the authority
'of the alleNNlali. artably not a protectionist Marna,
for suing that the narrowing of the area of taxation must
be reword as the *iodation of any amelioration of the
peer kw. What he end those who acted with him intended
bll NIMMUIeII sad to squad by was, that it should be sn in-
dultam MOM boundary enamissionen as nearly as possible
to assimilate the electoral divisions in Inland to the aver-
age sin of parishes in England. (Hear, hear.) He did
not wish to interpose further to prevent the rate in aid being
proceeded with ; but he had felt bound to throw out the ob•
servations be had made for the consideration of the noble
lord and the house. ( Hear, hear.)
Mr. FAGAN admitted that the poor-law, as at present
working in some districts of Ireland, was eating into the
capital, and that the proportion between population and
capital was daily becoming widened ; but he thought that'
that bad arisen from the abnormal condition in which Ireland
was placed after several years of famine. (Hear, hear.)
If they had not had a poor law in Ireland for the last
three years how would the population et the country have
been preserved ? The noble lord bad again introduced
the vexed question of the area of taxatin. Some of the swat
intelligent witnesses who had been examined before the °Dm-
missy altogether opposed the view adopted by the :ea •
lord. It was perfectly true that the area of taxation
might be a stimulus to employment, but it might also be a
stimulus to elearanees. If introduced into the ooutry it
must be accompanied by the law of settlement.
Lord BERNARD said that as to the area of tandem, he
thought that question to be the root of the whole mischief.
He trusted that the noble lord would take measures to carry
out railways to *veep:to of the country where they did not
at present east.
Mr. P. f3CROIGI said that the improvements introduced
by the noble lord had Menace to shifting the burden of
taxation, to improvement in the collection of the rates, and
the administration of the law as regarded the rats payer ;
but what he wanted to see was some improvement in the
law as regarded the interests of the poor themselves. It
was *useable to deny that the poor-law as at present
adminietered, was a most inefficient protection to the poor.
He would oaly allude to the immense evictions ring en, in
some puts of Ireland, and he saw no rowel for
shearing them horrible eases. What wore the
facts m t• the Kibosh Union as reported by
the poor law inspector ? Fourteen thousand human
beings had best turned out of their bums and left without
shelter of aelairklad, and no power existed of affording relief
to these h beings by giving them shelter of any de-
scription. e boards et guardians might gin outdoor re-
lief in food, but they mold not provide lodging. Daring the
whole at lad year 9,000 or 10,000 of these- beings bad been
trying tosiseltor themselves under hurdles or in dry ditches.
He hoped the noble lord would take into desitieration the
MUM, of allowing something in the way of lodging or
some somas of procuring shelter for the hosteler
Mr.
Mr. N. /12111111 ET erreaded that sod*, bad gfvp a
greater impedes to the clearance system than the greet dm
at the &stool adems The in England arrest
about 2,000 is each, each, while is Irelanusesd some scatekted as
many as 50000 MM. He wanted to know why it was that
i such inequality was wooridered necessary ? With respect to
the present ball, he feared that its only effect would be to
aggravate the evils already existing. For his part he would
Shy knee rather have the law as it stood at prima. (Hear.)
lir. H. GRATTAN said that there were certainly some
goad points in the noble lord's measure, but it was not sal-
ghat to take them out of their difficulty. The noble lord
had, to semi extent, admitted this; and had alluded to
seethe MIL Why had not the noble lead submitted
his white ere at ones to the Mum i Some-
tatmut seen be dime, sr destrustion would
e rompares. Thepidlypeople were loving,loving, and the
ra
Win slaking to tbair level. In reanaught
Tthwee. all beakrupth to Meurer they were needy so,
e Pepe was sprain to Limn end Ulster. Talk
of migrates I Had way ere wee herd et • oreany with
hattesa milling et awes ef stable lead he et whisk were
out of ealtiesties, and ends:alba suggsrat se • remedy I
What theeirot:ted was empleprat at hems, sad kr
was the et Cleplein lesiedy and all who were
:reat an giros_ on the edger. The mein
it the Niel et Leland was shouresim. Wherever
than wen a miler prepektary the peeEirere asellped,
was preperwm, and were eentented. , bser.)- Why
not riles the bob mammy be Irish by • tar spa
etreetess ? Bad • tax bed been proposed many years before
by the km. masher fir Montrose, and would now
he mess amebas ties ever. As to kissing Sne-
ll* spirals to settle In Ireland, he hared that
that wee • moot shimmied project. (Hear, hear.)
DM the t her brand peeper to emu out his new plat
Ifer
al Al of that of ZhuJames ? What was to be
W
the new proprietary ? The right kon. baroset
Imil Meld them that; bat if they wanted-an answer they
Weld find it by goingg to Covent garden Theatre, is the
5, White Horse of the Peppers." Having traduced the land.
leis, sad beaten down the value of the land, they now
to take it hose them altogether—to drive them out,
t if they liked, or to boll if they deserved it.
Did they • k the Irish people would submit to be so
treated ? Did they suppose that by sub a course they
would ever be able to dispense with the promos of an army
et 411,1011 NM is Ireland ? They talked to the Irish people of
**Metes et eatreliancie, but they took from them the
mesas of self reliance.
Biz B. PEEL—Sir, I am sorry that I have baud the
pitof the hon. gentleman. lam extremely sorry that
y miaortune to have bra jpriesseduring the delivery
Act speech ; but having band it, I should be still men
eery It I allowed it to pass without *bogie make some oh'
senedime spas it—(hear4earzat—ead thing! I was most un
willing to Warps@ soy to be Lon. and learned
teatime& the Solicitor he Wining, forward a
smarm whia I knave to be et be to
Laked—the new bill lbw ihearkg tresirbleor=:m.
brad estate in that 'sentry,
_ I keught heus, would
prude me bass IMO UM khan erred to have the op-
Melatof restityleg some peamierspeseretions which
all told•—••••• VW IRlWAglariala which have
pekes& with regard to dr sespieliens I ratared to offer
ens *tsar essestaa for the relief end impressment ot Ire-
toog—oson theos)—magestiens whist I oared k se aptrit
of posy beam ir bike le ambler= *moent
Nars liiihr)mil dnifft* . in* a et the
deepest sympathy for the seisrbegardition dent entry,
and la she irk hope el elmtributier something to the per
manent undierstien et Ike Li* people. (Meek) But,
one
• of al the snimenespben white Mr take ghee, Le only
one I shall wise b Ibill et the his. pantlemen vhs bee just
spoken--s abliesegMla el Ss MEN& ilifeligas, sad

seamor--
which is Winkled.** mks a deep feeling la Initial, sad
Wilk I wield ese possibly listen to end mania afloat, for
fres that the lateness woeld be draws that havisg laud
sussit,--hes viaciumarbermeistprelerisossodout when it. wasthatepokel mimed remained
iss* lsr that so.e,doS, that Ikr s. o..nt
acquiesced ie its trath. (Cheers.) The hon. Rudman
sews to @appose that I made some preparition, in a enti-
re& spirkler the ptepees of the Roman catho-
lic vies them of their pretest holdinp, for
the pn'pase of la Wag a protestant population In their
stead—l seed scarcely assure the Muse that that we. the
list intends. that could have entered my mind. The very last
thief I should propose—the very last idea in my mind
ho to substitute for the Rowe Catholic poreatioa
is hiked ens of a different religion or different race. My
hope wen to elevate the Ronne Whelk and improve his
teed not Mgab MOO ISM political advantage by
g him, led ialeadosing at his expense the mem-
ben of any other mood. (Cheers.) When did the hon.
member hear from me that in case there should be a redis-
Winks of property, the protestant. should have the
? (Hear, hear.) Was net I aware that there was
=air Roman catholic capital In Ireland which cannot
lad vast in consequence of the uncertain tenure of land
Wes I not aware that olio of the great evils shown by the
Ear( of Devon's consulates to exist in Ireland was
that capital made in trade and manufactures had no means
of developing itself In the inicrovement of the land
—that those who had made fortunes in commerce and in
trade had no opportunity of investing the-. fortunes in the
land ? And did the hon. gentleman teepee that if facilities
wen given her so applying this capital, the Roman ca.
Anis merchant of Cork or Waterford would be excluded
Items making those investments which he cannot make now
all askant of the barbarous tenure by which the land is held?
(Hear.) The hon. gentlemen says wish to drive oat the
Debility and landed gentry of Ireland—
Mr. (RATTAN—That was the effect of the plea.
Mr R. PIIIIL—No sir, I wish to drive oat no man. (Loud
dieses.) I said distinctly that I did not propose that there
ski& les say violation of the rights of propsproperty in Ireland;
but what I with is this—if there are in some parts of the
country persona who are mere nominal protestors, who
have no reel interest in the land—man who derive a small
berme from it, which is frittered away. not in improving
that land, but in law expenses in Dublin—(hear, bear)—
that if we as obtain facilities for rani* then from
that enabenterkg condition, end transferring their estates
to other perlieserhe will perform the duties which the pos.
noise el land impale, I am net Injuring, but benefiting
these bee Needs, eW at the same time conferring a great ad-
enines me the country, by enabling men with sew capital,
web lOW hopes, new aspirations, and new feelings with re-
seed to the application of capital, to become the occupier' , to
all Mien to which they can occupy, consistent with a due
repied to the rights of property, of that encumbered and
practically vacant soil. (Cheers.) Injure the Roman ca-
tholic peasantry of Irelaad by the immure I proposed!
Why, did not I hear the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor
of the Exchequer say the other night that after four years of
SUCCII4III famine no lees than 15,000 persons in one union
were driven from their houses and thrown upon the world
helpl. se and homeless ? (Hear, hear.) Is that the state of
things the bon. gentleman (Mr. Gretna) would wish to re.
tan ? (Cheers.) I ask you now, in Algiers or in the
Punjaub, after some successful military operation', or la
any part of the civilised or barbarous world, will you show
me a country in which 16,000 people have been thine
helpless end homeless from their dwellings and exposed le
the inclemency of the weather ? (Hear, hear.) And tide
in one union only. I ask, will you show me a parallel
to that case in any part of the world ? (Hear, hear.)
When I heard that statement I dwelt upon it is
my mind in the hope that it could not be true,
and that some contradiction would be given to it. (Hear,
hear.) Let us consider the strength of these people
diminished by four successive years of suffering and starvei
Lion, and that not in twenty or ten, but in one union,
1.5,000 human beings were driven out by ejectment. and
legal processes, helpless and homeless upon the world ; and
when in such a state of things I off red sums-
tiona, my main object being to remove from the minds of
the people of England, prejudices which might not unnatu-
rally remain after the Arne expenditure which had taken
place—(bear, hear)—l feared that alter the expenditure
of some nine or ten millions to rescue the people of Ireland
from their difficulties, Irene might be an unwillingness
tocontemplate the real magnitude of the su 'eft
—(hear, heir)—and my object was to remove that prej u iee.
(Cheers from both Weal I cared nothing about,
my plan, or about my suggestion, my object was
to harem on the mind of the House of Com-
mons at the time, that, notwithstanding your vat
oditure, it wee your interest, not only In point
ounite, but that it was your interest in point of policy, ail
as on pecuniary considerations ' • that it was your cats
tenet to apply yourselves to this condition of Ireland, fa
eseiparison with which every other consiletatiork believe
no, is subordinate. (Much cheering.) 81 far as English-
men are concerned, look at the prospect for the future.
There is no question so important—not the navigation laws,
nor any other question—of all the questions that can be
brought under our consideration, not one approaches this in
point of importance. (Hear, hear.) And what I mid was,
if yen can, consistently with what is just to
those who are the nominal proprietors, but really the ie-
eambrances of the estate —if you can facilitate the transfer
of this land to others who have the means to enter, and who
will enter, upon It with new views gad new hopes, not only
will you benefit those who are in this miseeable condition
on account of the encumbered position of these estates, and
the existing legal difficulties of their transfer,but you may pos-
sibly lay the foundation, not for immediate—for I
contemplated that—but for the ultimate,permanent improve-
meat and better order of things. (Hear, hear.) And, sir,
after the fullest reflection, I retain m conviction, that all
your other measures—your rates in aiy d, your alterationsin
the poor law, your advances for railways—will all do posi-
tively nothing, unless you can remedy that which I believe
to be the great social evil of Ireland—(hear, hear)—the
difficulty of effecting the transfer of land to the pos-
session of those who are competent to discharge those
ditties which the possession of land involves. (Cheers.)
When I spoke of the settlement of Ulster I knew per-
fectly well the construction which would probably be
placed on my words. I knew there would be those who
would say you are proposing now in the 19th century
that which might have been tolerated in the 17th. I
knew that it would be said, what are you to do ; do you
propou to drive out the Roman catholles to Connaught or
to Hell ? to Connanght certainly not ; for that is the
very district with which it is prop:sed to deal; and the
ether plus wee the last I intended—(hear, and a laugh)
aad I said that I wee aware that the fatal blot in the pion of
James 1., was that it established religioae distinctions, and
Evia
smrligious preferences; that it sought to expel the
esthetic inhabitants, in order. to introduce those of
seeker relish*, on whose allegiance ft wee supposed there
were greater elan.; and I said this foe the, express purpose
eisvf&reveating the possibility of being subjected to the charge
new, after an interval of three weeks, the hon. gen.
dome; prefers that I had some sinister object in
view—that I desired to expel the Roman Whelks, for
the purpose of substituting a protestant population. (Hear.)
Sir, I had no each object—(chans)—but what I wished was
by mistier/ a demand for labour to give to the Roman
catholic peasant the opportunity of obtaining self independ-
ent.. (Cheers.) The object I had wee to secure to him,
if potable, Is. 6d., perhaps Is. a day ; and that, after all, is
the foundation of all other improvements. (Hear, hear.)
I sever believed the doctrine by which HAM attempt to re-
lieve thensalves from the obligation which attaches to them;
I never believed that the Celtic population have an inherent
standalone hi their character, and that the Irish labourers
an sexless to avoid work. I take those men who come over
hen time to time to obtain labour in this country, and I ask
any 'Wiseman who has met then on the nail, or is the
field, and conversed with them, as I do, Wider he
has not left then with feelings of admiratin of flak err
speedo' politeness, their natural intelligence, end with the
envied= that the God of nature could sever have Wended
rash nun be esrfs4 ((Hear, hear.) It has beset end that
they are a turbulent people, sad that no laws em restrain se
improve them. I ask, can you who see them is tins
onaties, where they go to seek fn employment, find um
more ebedisnt to the law—more prudent or torteuiag under,
lem sorry to my, frogesatly much provocation ? can you
lad me. mere intle or, or more desirous to save and re-
mit we part of their earnings to their families at hams, et
to pay their rest, sad to keep their families inc. the week
bean? (Boar.) Is not this the unbend experiment of
every Emilie member who has nanny' who
with these men ? (Heal I diae,
me Ibmi, than Marine
that sledifeleses and inactivity are the dmillialle of the
Celtic pepaistine. (Haar, hen) I =to be feeding
a letter at the wry der the hen.
with Broke to expel tile kennel% gni I:l=hin.
English protestant pregeieteis in their semi. I wee mile;
letter—one of 7= hundreds I resin daily king an
account of an Es mope y, and of the of
their capital to rkh peopesq, and of the onesqieencee
which followed. This liana English ,who, I be-
lieve, got possession of their land at the time I have alluded
to already—that of James I. This is an amen of the pro-
ceedings of the Drapers' Company—a moray which is
entitled to a large estate under the settlement at James I. It
appears that this Drapers' Company for a lag time bad
been in the habit of granting leases renewable from time to
time to a single family of the name of Rowley. In 1817,
however, the leans fell out, and the company refused to re-
new it to the Rowley family. This company of English
merchants, residing in London, with no intimate knowledge
al Ireland, but inflamed by the spirit of Englishmen, and
by the mass of justice of Englishmen, determined to make
ea 'wir about the property. The state I. which they
head is_ deseribed la the first fermi of deputation which
they mat ow to being is 1817—
The balk at Or
nine belMbes ode be lessirlasratis polat el is
▪ ram It bat yam sabdadial are very mall. Moats a
salsa mai suastimas aps as ark Wee( sad watatlyaloa at balm.
Tam akin me sari arsagaLsamat mastirsas with draw, at
atbrir dale tab mat as sat us bat rangy walarillabt.
she ssawast Ice the am. dam is a Isis la tree Nat
Is mot he a caloney, et ether tine the doss serves es Or elinnel
fro the sit of the ma* sad , bat not inhemellp,these
e • minim Wane nit Welt is
tootoweled lo Ile me of
des the boa, eel that pen le wild on lee
On Is%
hon. the peek es Tr yr& AM fink eons of leilieelq
thee deleribel They grew amen, hat min pelseer. end nee
Omens to elf& they friswerhee ether nem Woo to be
Var with o
remismo tits leak j =old& le ssesin et Ito aura tare pow
wileasaratitrille moo
is sae tits tam Is wild* the mop; Mew en mow Nob.
Th Lea niseenn to dem le rpm. ni
men of any sort me ewer awn Rase of lbe new ambit Wit
.I"aanisill.amisasianwia:hisbaisipssibe
simais:;
obsimereeteituallePiLboolidiptilemitsalr7:bassayielkillentrgelniniss:
allB:ers. 41inignaketbeilfellestampithet6=sdliellimumblernal;
her ant e• awiars. as be lartval tam am: vas Us am
OM Nig dleasenesed. Thiry ant as vat with .160 Mk
*NC sea 'ooh ben 6e seem af
tint ost trees renniee of the euelinca of lb, ee.
Ode es tisnolbed la the thoot met Onnholeble, sato of cob.