The Express.
London, England, 1853-03-19 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING MARCH 19, 1853

nut.,, which might be said to be merely one epos paper,
and one which could become a reality but in the con-
tingency of the Canadian legislature proceeding to secu-
larise the clergy reserves. If they did not do so, the gua-
rantee would continue one merely on paper; if they did,
then would be the time for the ministry of the day to deal
with the guarantee ; and even in that event the lives of in-
cumbents would have to drop, ten or fifteen years hence,
before the g tee could come iato force. (Hear, hear.)
and
de question of tion of the guarantee w one exclusively British ;
embarrassment arising out of it ought to
apply to this country alone, and ought not to
affect the colony. Seeing that the guarantee could
only become operative in the two contingencies
he had pointed out, that was a strong reason for separating
the question of the guarantee altogether from that of the
clergy reserves. (Hear, hear.) They were as distinct as
any two questions that could be named. Is the event of
the question of the guarantee arising, some arrangement
might be come to with the churches of England and Scot-
land ; bat how could they go and ask those churches now
to accede to such an arrangement, when the contingency
had not arisen ? To do so would be to assume that the
Canadian legislature would secularise the reserves, which
they professed, in advocating this bill, not to believe.
(Hear.) He was confident that the arrangement of 1640
was one highly beneficial to the colony; but the good faith
of this country would forbid it, of having given this gua-
rantee, to proceed precipitately to its withdrawal. (Hear.)
He felt that the gouts, pursued by his noble friend (Lord
J. Russell) w► the beat that could be adopted. The pica
notes bed been given in all good faith, and they ought not
to proceed precipitately to ice removal. (Hear.)
Mr. FIUME reminded the right hon. gentleman that he
ought to be the defender of the Consolidated Fund.
(Laughter.) If the clause was now to be withdrawn,
why was it ever brutish% into the bill ? It appeared they
were going to surrender the property applicable to the sup-
port of the church, and still to retain their liabilities.
(Hear, hear.) Much was said of the influence used by the
Duke of Wellington, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and
others, in 1840; he was sorry :bat those individuals had
ever had so much influence. There was no hurry with this
measure ; is a few days they would have an answer from
Canada, and he thoir.,lit the suggestion to wait till then
a very good one. Nothing would render the church in the
colonies more unpopular than to make it a pensioner on the
imperial revenues. No leis than fourteen bills had been
brought in at different times in the Canadian legislature for
appropriating these reserves; and it WAS certain to be done
sooner or later; and hence the impolicy of parting with the
property and cnntinuing to give the guarantee. (Hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI, who ruse amidst loud cries of " Divide,"
min this clause had been introduced along with the bill, to
which it was stated mature consideration had been
given. There were only three clauses in the bill; and
the proposal to withdraw this clause did not ex-
hibit that itatesmanlike management of business
which might be expected from the present government
The first clause had been affirmed ; the second war a mere
parenthesis ; the third was to be omitted. (Hear, hear.)
He could only infer from the incongruous statement, and
incompatible reasoning he had lately heard, that there had
bean a change of policy— laughter)—and on the subject of
this third clause, he should like to appeal to the First Com-
missioner of Works. (Great laughter.) Did the right
hon. gentleman give his cordial concurrence to the proposal
of has colleagues to abandon this clause ? (Hear, hear.)
The hon. member for Aberdeen had said there was no
doubt the reserves would be secularised by the Catadian
legislature ; and seeing that a despatch had just been sent
out by the colonial minister, referring the matter to their
decision, he thought it would hi more than decorous, it
would be satisfactory, to wait till an answer was returned
to that despatch. Notwithstanding the glowing description
given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer as to the care
taken in the preparation of the bill, ha thou.:ht the beat
course, after what had taken place, would be to move that
the chairman do report progress and ask leave to sit
again. (Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Lord J. Rosen, and Mr. Hymn
in explanation,
Mr. BRIGHT said it appeared to him that there seemed
to be some considerable difference of opinion in the gum
meat on this subject. (Hear, hear.) The light hon. gen-
tleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had at least dis-
cussed the subject with a vivacity which the Roble lord the
member for London could not at all summon up. (Hear,
bear.) But that, perhaps, was not to be wondered at, eee-
ing that the right hon. gentleman was a trustee and a mag-
nate of that antiquated society for the propagation of the
gospel in foreign parts. (Laughter.) The right hon. gen-
tleman said that there was a solemn compact with reference
to this clause. There might have been such a compact to
which a few individuals were parties, but neither the peo-
ple of England nor the people of Canada were parties to
it. (War, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—It was mentioned in parliament.
Mr. BRIGHT—Even if it were, were they in 1&53 to be
bound by the opinion that prevailed in 1840 ? (Hear.) It
was said that this was not the time for discussing the ques-
tion of the guarantee. It was the very time to do so, as
any man of business would see at once, because here were
two parties liable for 9,oool.—the clergy reserves of Canada
end the consolidated fund of England, and it was now pro-
posed to give up the former security and to make the con-
solidated fund liable for the whole. (Cheers.) This was
the very time, therefore, to see that this matter was
properly and justly arranged. (Hear, hear.) If they
were to be bound by what took place ten years ago
would not people tan years hence, referring to the proceed-
ings which were now taking place in respect to this subject,
ask; how can you, after the declarations made by the
ministers of the crown, abandon the engagements eslemnly
entered into by the ministry of 1853 ? (Hear, hear.) but
it appeared doubtful to him whether there was any gua-
rantee at all, and he did not know that there was any mode
by which the consolidated fund could be called on to pay.
If. would vote in favour of the clause, because it put
out of all question any doubt as to the liability. (Hear,
hear.) He considered it use of the most impudent propo-
sitions ever made to parliament, to propose that the
people of this country, who were not in half the
condition of independence that the people of Canada
were in, should contribute one farthing to establish
any party or sect three or four thousand miles
off on the other side of the Atlantic. (Cheers.) The noble
lord had often honest and just conceptions of public ques-
tions, but he wanted the grasp or the vig.ear to carry them
through this house, or tether through the other house of
parliament. (Hear.) If the noble lord would rely more on
!that wasjust and what could be safely recommended to the
honest opinions of the people of this country, he would meet
with an amount of support greatly than he calculated on,
and which would much facilitate the passing of hie
measures through parliament. (Hear, hear.) It was
perfectly absurd and mere childishness to ask the
Canadian legislature, who in common with the Cana-1
dish people wanted to get rid of this question, whe-
ther they would undertake a guarantee which they never
entered into; and such an idea partook of • simplicity
which he did not think was ever to be found in a member
of a cabinet. (t. Hear, hear," and laughter.) This was a
question, not between them and the Canadian legislature,
but between them and the established church of Canada.
Looking at the question in this light, and considering that
it was one on which a decision should be come to, he would
vote against the amendment of the right hon. gentleman
(Mr Disraeli) and in favour of the motion of the hon. mem-
ber for Rochdale. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI having withdrawn his amendment,
Sir G. GREY said he wished, before the house came to
• vote on the main question, to state the grounds on which
he would vote for the omission of the clause. He was dis-
posed to take the same view of the nature of the guarantee
which was taken by the boo. member for Manchester.
Like him he was disposed to regard the guarantee as •
bows fide guarantee. The consolidated fund was given as
security for any deficiency, if the reserves fell below 7,0001.
for the clergy of the church of England, and 1,6001. for the
church of Scotland. The Canadian legislature getting by
this bill the same power of dealing with these reserves
which the imperial parliament possessed, there was the
same possibility of a deficiency existing now. To the limi-
ted extent of making up that deficiency he was prepared to
go, and in that limited sense, and that alone, he would
vote for the omission of the clause. (Hear, hear.)
The committee then divided—
For the clause
Against it
The clause was consequently struck out.
The house then resumed.
The third reading of the Jewish Disabilities Bill was
fixed by Lord J. Russell for Monday 11th April.

LAW OF EVIDENCE (SCOTLAND) BILL.
On the motion of the Lo&D ADVOCATI this bill, the ob-
jutqf which was to assimilate the law of evidence in Scot-
land to that of England, w►v read a second time.
SHERIFFS' COURT (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The order for the second reading of this bill wu read and
discharged.
MERCIIANT SHIPPING.

istotronoitirTaltlTlVila.,a resolution was
in committee of the whole house for altering the
CI Misting to merchant shipping, and a bill founded
thereon ordered to be brought in.

RETURNS ORDERED.
On the motion of Mr. F. SCULLY, return stating the
names of the schools under the management of the Com-
missioners of Education in Ireland, and where situated, with
the number if boys in each, on the Ist day of May,
1862, and the number of boys taught in each school gratis
in each year for the last four years, ending the 31st day of
December, 1862 (in continuation of parliamentary paper,
No. 607, Of session 1849).
On the motion of Mr. L. KING :—Alphabetical list
*fall election petitions presented during the present mein;
showing the names of the places, names of members pen-
tined against, the dates of presentation, and petitions to
i defend rrrrr as ; end in what manner any of suck p..titions
may have been disposed of; whether by the sureties to the
rengninnees being repotted as objectionable, or by
being withdrawr ; with the dates of the reports
and such withdrawals, or otherwise, together with
the names of the agents: returns of all reports,
special reports, and determinations or resolutions of any
election committees reported to this house : of the names of
all members who have been unseated, and for what causes
they have been so unseated ; and of the names of
all places the writs for which have be en suspended, and to
what dates they have been so suspended, the whole of
the above returns to be made complete up to Easter.
On the motion of Mr. DRUMMOND, address fur return
of the number of lunatic, fatuous, in-ane, or impotent per-
sons confined in each parish in Scotland, stating the places
where confined, and the cost paid the support of the
same.

NATIONAL GALLERY.
Col. MILE nr)ved that the select committee on the
National Gallery do consist of 17 members :—Col. Mere,
Mr. Lain). .chere, Mr. Chartoris, Mr. Stirling, Mr. Raikea
Currie, Mr. Manes, Mr. Marshall, Lord Seymour, Mr.

Vernon, Lord Brooke, Mr. Goulburn, Mr. Ewart, Mr.
Baring Wall, &r William Moleswurth, Mr. Hardinge,l
Lord Graham. and Mr. Hamilton.
Mr. HUME suggested the postponement of the nomina-
tion till after Easter.
Mr. D. SEYMOUR objected to the proposed eonstitutioo
of the 'matinee, on the ground that it included no mem-
bers who bad expressed an opinion adverse to the removal
of the pictures to Kensington.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND said the great point was, to have
on the committee gentlemen who understood paintings.
Colonel MURE said Mr. Baring Wall was put in nomina-
tion expressly because be was the leader of the party who
opposed the removal in 1860.
&r J. PAKINGTON must remind the house that the
question was not purely one of fine art, a great outlay of
money being involved.
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD intimated his intention to move
the addition of Mr. D. Seymour's name after Easter.
The motion was then agreed to.
WATERFORD ELECTION PETITION.
Mr. VANCE, in the a since and on behslf of Mr. White-
side, moved that the evidence taken by the committee ap-
pointed to try the county of Waterford election petition be
laid en the table of the house.—Agreed to.
The house adjourned at one o'clock.

Pataa•—Jtw Pack. against, with Mr. T.
Smith, tor; L"rd Senham, against, with Mr. Evelyn
Deni-on, for; Colonel Pennant, against, with Mr. Corbally,
for.

gut. eirortl.

ltt I)IZ!iIiSPONDENTS.
-eand Edition .1" The Empress," eontaning the mac even" .a
cdaette," in pl.i.liatted tray Tae day asul time
tr. 14114.
& ,wernent.• mended ror ••Tbe Eames," Union Ececing pletet,
tn.ih. he at the (alma, loaceetieetinet, by Two o'clock on be
icy of publication.

HIGH WATER. AT LONDON BRIDGE.
Ton Dar—Manrite, Oa. sea.. Afternoon, th. 41et.
fanonnow—Morning, 25 Artornso4 14go.

FRANCE.

TELBORAPIi.]

PARIS, SATURDAY MORNING.
The customs duties hare been fixed or modified as
follows:
Minerals of every kind except brimstone, by French
vessels or by land, exempt; by foreign vessels, lfr.
the 100 kilos.
Racks de reglisse, by French vessel., exempt; by
foreign vessels and by rand, 2fr. the 100 kilos.

PARIS, FRIDAY EVENING.
The budget was presented to-day to the Legisla-
tive Assembly; the estimated expenditure exceeds
the receipts by 1,388,630 francs, notwithstanding the
long desiierattd. equilibrium.
Francesco and Rasa Mailiai were suffered to em-
bark on Wednesday lost from Leghorn for Mar-
seilles.

There wan a complete panic at the Boirse to-day,
which lasted tilt nearly the close. The Three per
Cents., which were quoted yesterday at 81, and even
alter business hours so high as 81.10, fell to 79.60.
Ihe obstensible cause of this enormous decline was
a rumour that the English fleet had cutcaed the Dar-
danelles. This report, uftcr a little reflection, was
considered as a mere stock exchange invention, but
it was still very generally believed that
after the arrival of Prince Meutshikoff in
Constantinople, the English charge d'affaires
there had sent to Multi for the fleet iu case
the Sultan should require support. This, order, how-
ever, supposing it to have been issued at all, must
have been sent prior to the resignation of Fuad
Effendi, and the acceptance by the Porte of the ulti-
matum to which that minister objected. This con-
Aderation went far to tranquillise the minds of the
speculators, and within the last quarter of an hour
numerous purchases strengthened the market, and
the Threes closed at 80.35.
_ _

The Marriteur announces that the Emperor has
just named the Marquis Target, ex-Minister of
Foreign Affairs, as Ambassador at the Court of
Spain, in place of General Aupick, lately nominated
senator.

The Emperor and Empress went last night to the
Cirque on the Boulevards, to see " Massena, l'Enfant
Cheri i e la Petrie," an equestrian military spectacle,
which has had a great run. The Empress appeared
delighted with the performance, so much so indeed
that the Emperor, with unmistakeable gesticulation,
frequently signified to her that her naive manifesta-
tions of pleasure were too demonstrative. About
200 private soldiers were present, and it is
worthy of remark that the whole garrison of
Paris has been in succession marched to see
this piece, their places being paid for by the govern-
, ment. Although the drama is calculated to awaken
warlike feelings in the bosoms of the soldiery as con-
nected with the name of Napoleon, it must in fair-
ness be stated that it concludes withl a special moral
pointing to peace. The drop scene at the end repre-
sents Napoleon L, pointing through a cloud to the
rising figure of Napoleon 111., and exclaiming,
"Frenchmen, I wished to give you peace, but could
not ; there is my successor, who will give it you."
The affair of the Countess de Solms came before
the civil tribunal of the Seine yesterday in a new
form. Messrs. Cerf and Michel had furnished the
Countess in October last with cashmere shawls to
the value of 4,000 fr., of which they had re-
ceived I,ooofr. on account. Believing her to
be a member of the imperial family, they
had no anxiety about the payment of the balance,
but when she was expelled from France as a foreigner
and imposter, they became uneasy, and brought
an action against her for the 3,000 fr., at the same
time taking her furniture in execution upon wane
process, a right which the law gives a Frenchman
against a foreigner. M. Berry er applied to the court
to set aside the execution, upon the ground that, not-
withstanding the arbitrary order of expulsion by the
Minister of Police, the Countess de Solms was really
a Frenchwoman by marria;e, if not indeed by birth,
which he contended, as a supplementary argument,
that she was. M. Berryer asserted that the Coun-
tess de Solms was no adventurer, but the
legitimate child of Mdlle. Bonaparte, the daugkter of
Lucien Bonaparte, by her marriage with Mr. Wyse.
Her husband, M. de Selma, was born in France. He
was the grandson of a German, who had quitted his
country to reside in France, so long ago as 1792-93.
M. Berryer produced documentary evidence to show
that as soon as M. de Solms attained the age of 21
he had been inserted by the Mayor of Strasburg on
the list of young men liable to be drawn for the
army, that he had since filled many public functions,
and that on the 25th of Feb. 1848, he, conjointly
with M. de Basun°, was employed to furnish provi-
sions for the troops then in Paris. Having thus, as
he contended, proved conclusively M. de Solm's na-
tionality, he had shown enough to satisfy the court
that his wife could not now be excluded from her
privileges as a Frenchwoman by a declaration of her
husband that he was a foreigner, a declara-
tion which he, M. Berryer, asserted M. de
Selma had been bribed to make. This assertion
called forth an energetic denial from the imperial:ad-
vocate, to which M. Berryer replied that he would
discuss that paint on a future occasion. The argu-
ment for the Minister of Police was simply that M.
de Selma, although born in France, had never made
the declaration required: by the Code Napoleon from
children of foreign parents, in order to show their
election of a French nationality. The Court
held that the Countess de Semis bad not proved
herself to be a Frenchwoman, and refused to set'
aside the execution on her furniture.

The following aro the latest quotations received
to-day by telegraph :—Berliu : Emp. Four-and-a-Half
per Cent., 1031; ditto, Three-and-a-Half, 931. Rink,
lon Frankfort : Emp. d'Aut. Threo per Cen's.,
97; ditto Pow-And-a-Half, 781; ditto Threes, 521.
Bank, 1543. Spanish Three per Cents., 441. Belgian
Four-and-a-Half, 991. Vienna: Metallique Five per
Cent., 941; Emp., 1851, loot Lombardo Venetian,
100. Bank, 1,428.