The Express.
London, England, 1853-08-13 00:00:00

RUSSIA AND TURKEY.

The Earl of 3IALMESBURY aid he had risen pursuant
to notice to move for translations of two manifestoes which
had been published in the St l'et,rabora Gazelle, and any
answer or notice that might have been taken of these
documents by the noble earl, the Secretary for Foreign
Adair.. Ile, of course, conceded the argument that depre-
cated premature diacussion, but the production of papers of
this kind was not to be plated in the same category as the
disclosure of still pending negotiations. He regretted that
our government had not noticed these manifestoes as the
French government had done in an able a manner, nor
could he understand the reasons which could have in-
assented her Majeaty'a ministers in their silence. There
were ample precedents for compliance with the motion he
was then about to make. en Lill, when the French Army,
under the Duc D'Augoulense, entered Spain, Mr. Canning
published papers on the subject within twenty-four hours
of the arrival of the intelligence. To come down to a much
later period it was not many months sines Lord I. Russell
had published the despatches having reference to the Medial
airtir in Tuscany. Ile would remind his noble friend that
after 38 years of peace the public mind was extremely sen-
sitive to the least rumour of disturbance in our relations with
foreign countries, a fact which was proved by the agitation
which hal marked the ry■see of recent events. He
feared that the language of tge press during eleven months
had made ►strung impression on foreign courts, but above
all upon the Court of Russia. If such an impression ex-
isted, and ha knew that it did exist, how much must it
have keen strengthened by the circumstances that followed?
Lord Dolby's government resigned on the 28th of Decem-
ber, and her Bliijesty's present government succeeded. The
eyes of all Europe were at once turned on the foreign po-
licy of the new government, which was canvassed in every
Mtn in Europe. Those governments being aware of the
previous language of the press, bad also had their atten-
tion much attracted by speeches mode by two

members of the present government,—the First Lord
of the Admiralty and the President of the Board
of Control. The speakers did not hesitate openly
to ceodernn the policy and chars tor of the present
Immo of the French, the ally of her Majesty,
god to abuse the French people for their choice of that
grime ea a ruler. Such speeches must ale have made an
lmpresaion on the Emperor of Russia, supposlag him to
edlime to the traditions of his family. It was generally
admitted that with England and France disunited, Turkey
must fall ; and the hope was strengthened by the sroderato
leaguer, which we had held on the occasion of Austria's
conduct in the Montenegrin question. The noble
owl proceeded to recapitulate the transactions of the
Bast, all of which an familiar to the public.
The policy which the late government adopted towards
foreign nations was this, they declared that any attempt to
»move the ancient land marks and boundaries which ex-
isted in Europe would receive a determined resistance on
the part of England ; and he thought the present govern-
nest upon coming into office must have felt the happy
results which Wowed the announcement of that policy.

That policy had received the alliance of France, and if
Turkey had been laved from Ring= aggression he thought
this merit of it was doe to France and England. This
was not the only fruits which had grown out
of the policy first propounded by the late government,
but it was enough to satisfy the country that the feeling was
both sound and just. It was hardly necessary for him to
point out the immense importance of maintaining the lads•
pendency of Turkey. He should abstain as little as possible
from touching upon that extensive subject. Them wet*
Mims politicians, however, who did not begat' (*declare
that the maintenance of Turkey was not worth the mat which
it involved, while some others went the length of pretesting
that if our Indian empire could only be approached through
Tarkey it was hardly worth keeping. It was needless to
mower each politicians—(hear, hear)—but it was right

that he should remind those who held out such language
that our trade with Turkey was at least two-thirds better
than it was with Russia. There were, however, other con-
siderations besides those of trade which made it of the ut-
most importance that the independent* of Turkey should
be maintained ; for, if Constantinople should fall into
the bands of Russia, there would immediately be
three great powers in possession of the Mediterranean,
at present it was in possession of England and France, but
only let • third power creep in, and two of the power,
could combine together to keep the third out. He could
not, therefore, conceive anything which was of more im-
portance to this country than that the *aiming state of
things at Constantinople and in the Sea of Marmots should
be maintained. (Hear, kw.) Before he sat down, Ise
inked their lordships to follow hint through a rapid sketch
of what had occurred at Turkey during the last throe or
four months. With regard to the crossing of the
Pruth, he must my that this was nothing more
see less than an set of invasion. It was a violation
of the treaty of Adrianople, which recognised the Principa-
lities as part of the Ottoman Empire, and, therefore, there
could be no question as to whom these pro-. hates belonged.
On the sth of July the Russians bad not only creamed the
Pruth, but they had usurped all the functions of the
governments of the Principalities, as that this
occupation was quite • penal thing to th►t
which existing treatise might be supposed to amities, suck
as entering to enforce meat of • claim at to 'oppress as
insurrection. There was no analogy between this occupa-
tion and such • Nee as either of those which he had just
motioned, and therefcce he eeuld not help thinking that
the government sommitted an error in net at once pronounc-
ing this act of Reeds to be • ensue b.Ui, and immediately
proseediag to enter the Dardanelles. Had the government
taken th►t tonne we should have been in a much better
position than we were now, set only with respect to the
negotiations which were at present going on, but also
with regard to the Turkish population of Constantinople,
who, during the late occurrences were In such a state of
excitement that the wonder was that they did not force
the government into mineurse which mart have rendered a
war inevitable. It would have shown the world that a pro-
Motive policy towards Turkey was not inconsistent with the
spirit dour free institutions ; and thanking their lordships
for the attention which they had paid him he must
again express his conviction that for the sake of sustaining
the interest of our common country in the eye. of the
world, the government would have acted more wisely had
they been more open in the polity which they were pur-
suing towards Turkey. (Cheers.)

The Earl of CLARENDON—My lords, I certainly was II
not prepared, when my noble friend gave me notice of the
question he woe going to put, for so long a speech, very in-
teresting, certainly, but still so long. and consisting of se
many narratives as my noble friend had given. There are
parts of his speech which I hope he will not think me dis-
courteous if I decline to follow. My noble friend has laid
dews various prepositions which no one would think of dis-
puting, and he has also made allusions and statements
which, in the present state of again, I think it my public
duty not to notice, for the same reason that I hare hereto-
fore refused to answer ; and I assure my noble friend
that it is very painful to me to hays to give the
same answers to questions over and over again, and
to decline to lay before your lordships, and the country
lave a right to @spoilt, to remove the state of anxious
suspense that has so lose lasted, which interferes
with all the bosoms transactions of the country,
and which has led to feelings of impatience and indigna-
tion. Aced I assure my noble friend that it is with great
reluctance, and hos lathing but a sense of public duty,
that I still adhere to that principle which has been the
principle of all former governments of this country, and has
been iai.etioned by parliament—namely, that of not making

communications while negotiations were pending, and of
not laying btfore parliament separate despatches or portions
of despatches. (Hear, hear.) But with respect to the an-
ewer to that circular to which my noble friend has again
alluded, I ware him that it is in argument the ease, and
in tone not less firm and moderate than the Preach govern-
meat—of which he has expressed his satisfaction. And it
is, as I have said, nothing but a sense of duty that prevents
me giving myself the satisfaction of laying that sower
on your lordships' table. But her Majesty's government
on anxious to do sad say nothiag that can impede the
peaceful solution of this embarrassiai quetioa—(shears)—
for our object is, and it mast los that of year lordships, the
mismanage lipase; hat pease, as I ban amid behre, eft-

sistent with the national honour and the National friths and
therefore with the national interests. (Hear.} Forii my
lords, I an, sure her blajestres govisrefent would fll rem.
*est the feelings ~f the country, and they goad not rely
upon any support from your lordshipi or from the public if
peace ware purchased on any other tereas. In one portion
of my noble friend's speech with reference to the alliance
with France, he has reviewed the circumstances that might
have influenced, and next the reasons that may have in-
duced the Emperor of Russia to take the course he did.
My noble friend began with a full review of his policy
during the time he was himself in offie., against which I
ant not prepared to say anything. He has alluded te
the abuse which has been directed against himself
by the press. That the attacks of certain newspapers—be-
cause I do not apprehend they all joined in each attaeks—but
that the attacks of certain newspapers upon my noble friend
(or having laboured to maintain friendly relations with
France, have produced any effect in the manner he
supppoees on the mind of the Emperor of Rustic, is
what I really cannot believe, any more than I can
believe that his mind has been influenced, or that his pa
hey towards Turkey has been guided by the two speeches
to which my noble friend, I am sorry to say, has again
alluded. And Ido not think that my noble friend will find
many to share his opinion, that expressed in bringing these
speeches forward, that they had anything to do with
the notion that England and France would not
act together, and that it would, therefore, be safe
for the Emperor of Russia to pursue his own policy.
Ho had had on more than one occasion to state how cordial
the alliance between France and England had been; and
he rejoiced upon this, as upon every opportunity, to repeat,
that assurance. (Hear, hear.) There had been, through-
out the whole of this Eastern question, the most intimate,
cordial, and he might almost say daily, communication
be-
tween the two governments ; they had entertained precisely
I the same views of the policy which ought to be adopted,
and there had been a complete mutual action up to this
hour. (Hear, hear.) He thought, with that assurance,
that it was impossible for the Emperor of Russia to have
believed that his policy in the East had any reference to the
alliance between France and England, and the feeling ex-
isting between them—(hear, bear), for it was impossible for
him to have believed that that alliance did not exist and that
it was not sincere. (Hear, hear.) The next point to
which his noble friend had alluded as having influenced the
Emperor of Ramis was the little care and interest we hod
appeared to exhibit with regard to Turkey, by not having
taken stronger measures for the withdrawal of the Austrian
army from Montenegro. That question bad been discussed
before their lordships on a former occasion. Her Majesty's

government had been in communic►tion with the Austrian
government on the subject, and they had not failed to ask
for those explanations with respect to Prince Leinengen's
minion which they considered necessary. The reply of
Austria was that they had every reason to apprehend that
there would be a rising of the people, and that her frontier
was in danger. She did not dispute the authority of the
Sultan over Montenegro, but she stated that the means
by which that authority was exercised had become
dangerous to the neighbouring powers. And with
respect to the retreat of the Turkish army, even
after the Sultan bad given orders for the withdrawal of bis
forces, ►e (the Earl of Clarendon) was in constant commu-
nication with the government of Austria to secure the full
execution of the terms stipulated for. The next point to
which his noble friend had alluded, as a proof that the
French and English governments had not been acting cor-
dially together, was, that at the time the fleets were sent for
by Colonel Rose, the French fleet advanced, but the
British fleet did not. Prince Leinengben did not can for
the dismissal of Fund Effendi ; still, his arrival produced
much Ili.Tol in the mind of the Turkish government, and
Colonel Rose no doubt wrote to Admiral Dundas, not ex-
actly to come up to the Bay of Belies, but he recommended
that, as his fleet was about to take a summer cruise, that it
would be desirable that its departure from Malta should be
hastened. Admiral Dundee did not comply with that request,
and but a few days after Colonel Rose and the Grand Vizier
impressed their satisfaction at his not having done so. tipon
the news reaching the French government that the British
fleet had been sent for by Colonel Rose, orders were given
for the French fleet to move, but this was done at the spur
of the moment, without any consultation with her Majesty's
government. When the French government communicated

their order to her Majesty's government, they frankly told
them that the danger did not appear to be imminent, and
at that moment they did not deem it necessary that the
British fleet should leave Malta. The French government
replied that they did not regret having given the order, he-
cause Toulon was much further west than Malta, and the
French fleet being at Salamis, was in • better position to
co-operate, if necessary, with the British fleet at Malta.
But this did not for • moment throw a shade of
difference over the relations which existed be-
tween the two countries. (Hear, hear.) The result
had proved that when they were ordered to Besika Bay,
the instructions which were forwarded by the same tele-
graph were obeyed at the same time, and both fiesta
reached their destination within • few hours of each other.
(Hear, hear.) With reference to the amurances given to
his noble friend by the Emperor of Russia, he (the Earl of
Clarendon) could not dive into men's minds, nor always
understand their motives, but he could only say that the
same assurances had been given to her Majesty's present
government by the Emperor of Russia which his noble
friend said bad been given to him. (Hear, heat.) No so-
verign in Europe could have given more solemn assurances
of his respect for existing treaties ; and he had seed
to say that he considered the maintenance of the Turkish
empire as a great principle of European policy, and that it
was his desire to maintain it independently. (Hear, hear.)
The Russian government had, on more than ono occasion,
agreed with her Majesty's government that the dismem-
berment of the Turkish empire would be a great European
calamity. (Hear, hear.) And it was under those gunmen
that Prince Menchlkofs mission was sent to Constantino-
ple, and not because, as his noble friend said, the question
of the holy places was settled. It might have bees set
tied in the French sense ; but it was that which had made
all this disturbance. (Hear, hear.) The Emperor of Rus
sia's view was that a privilege had been transferred to the
Latin church which the year before had been given to the
Greek church, and that it would impair his moral influence
among his co-religionists of the Greek church if the matter
were not set right. He, therefore, considered it absolutely
necessary that it should be ; and, although he said from
the beginning that he would not seek to deprive the
Latins of the advantages which they had, he stated
that he should seek from the Ottani', government some
equivalent, and that it should be secured, not as before, by
a finnan, whisk expertise, showed mould be violated, but
by some explaaatory act which would prevent future dim-
animate. Therefore this mission of Prince Menchikoff was
not undertaken after the question was settled, as his noble
friend had said, but for the purpose of settling that quer-
tion. (Hear, hear.) And it was not so easily settled. Fre-
quent interviews took place between the Russian ambas-
sador and the Porte, as well as between the French sad the
British ambassador, the latter eating merely as•nsieus carat,
and his services were warmly acknowledged by the Russian
and Turkish governsairate. (Hear, bur.) It was after
that—on the bth of May—that the proposition, which
had led to so much difficulty, was made by the Rumba
government. Her Majesty's government did not know
that proposals would be made which, if acceded ts, would
have amounted to little less than • protectorate on the
pare of Russia. (Hear, hen•.) They thought, moreover,
that Prince Menchikoff would take less than he demanded
—and so it turned out. He then made one or two other
propositions, which were objected to; and throughout all
these negotiations it was satisfactory to her Majesty's
government that the Sesta were not before Coiritantinople,
because the Turkish government bad been able to act in a
free and independent manner, and all pretence for saying
th►t they had acted under the dictation of any other power
was taken away. (Hear, hear.) On the 22nd of May
Prince Menchlkoff left Constantinople, and the passage
which bad been read by his noble friend from hie valedic-
tory latter was no doubt correct. Such language wee, for
tunately, very rare In diplomatic correspondence, and he
hoped it would long remain an exception to the general
rule. (Hear, hear.) After Prince Meaehikoff had quitted
Constantinople, a note was sent to Resebid Pacha, requiring
him to accept the terms proposed by R•ssie within eight days.
That demand woe declined in most courteous terms ; and
then, in pursuance of the threat which had been held out,
the Danubian principalities were occupied. He had no
hesitation in saying that her Majesty's government had
looked upon that act as a violation of the treaty. (Hear,
hear.) He would not enter farther into that part of the
question, because his sense of public duty prevented him
from doing so ; but he did aot hesitate to say that it was un-
questionably • cants beta. (Hear, hear.) Her Majesty's
government, however thought st i•eumbent oa them to do
everything in their power to avoid the chances of war•
(Hear, hear.) They felt that they could not go with a good
face to the country to sanction • war, unless they could
show that they had exerted and exhausted every effort to
maintain peace. (Load cheers.) They did not therefore
recommend to the Sultan to exercise his un- '
doubted and unquestionable right to treat the