The Express.
London, England, 1851-03-28 00:00:00

wee--
ipbo„ uee other measures, air, in contemplation, and fur the
purpose of etlecteug which there have been two commiesione
appointed--one to inquire into the proceedings in the
coconut law courts, another to inquire into all the pro-
(erelong, in the Court of Chancery. Without mention
any particular measures under their consideration, I
may state that the result of these commissions will
he, to prevent those continual trariefers front one court to
spatter, sail thee, tedious proceedings which have hitherto
estbstvaswel the courts of justice. (near, heat) They are
&toting their attention, l believe, to get rid, as far as
possible, of those teehnitalitiet which do nut belong to the
teal substance and merits of the causes. (Hear, hear.) I
believe that if we proceed in this coleus, very great good
may he effecter'; and I am sure that no subject which
comes behove you is more deservino of your attention.
Aeeing pardon of them t
fur the time I have con-
tinued w occupy their attention—(on, no)—I beg 01 move
for leave to bring in a bill to provide for the better admi-
nistration of justice in the Court of Chancery. (Loud
cheer,'
Mr. J. STUART at that late hour merely row to
say that the mottle lord in that part of Ins sieve h which re-
lated to the uttice of Lord Crtuneellor and the administre-
boa "(justice in the Court of Chancery, and the various
meanires which heretofore had !wen proposed with the
view of improving the administration of justice in that
court, had expresool himself with oentiments ...just, with a
view NO clear and so accurate of the duties of that great
once, that although he (Mr. Stuart) highly disapprover( of
the latter part or the speech, and, so far us h., timid judge
at the menieut, of the measure proposed, he wield nut with-
hold leis admiration of the opinions enunciated by the noble
lore on the eeneral Pubject. (hear, hear.) Ile (Mr.
Stuart) mgr. t;.,1 deeply that so humble an individual as
biseted -ogee who hail ein other claim to the notice of the
!mask than that of tviug the senior member of the Chau-
eecy bar present -should be the first person to rise to make
anrubeersation im the TOMe lord's speech. lie regretted
that Ito statemno oo on that (the opposition) bench, and with
wheni he usuiely acted, hail stated hie views on this flues-
tiun, which was important to laymen ten thousand times
more loose it was to the legal piefecion. (11. ar, hear.)
'jaw vi, as of the members or the nor were, in his opinion.
of eonsiderable importance ; but the impartance of their
duties depend. d orator, lye and Is.) mid all power of estimate,
on the authority and qualstications of the judge before
whom they apse-and un behalf or others to solicit justice.
Thu motile lord could nut have taken the step
of proposing such a bill without, of course, con-ulting
the law Witter. of the crown. It was in the hope of
elieitiue the vies.. of these "carnal gentleisien that he (Mr.
Stuart) s titan tl to threw out one or two considerutions,
treguriliist the illeasUre. The propOial was to give to
the Lord High Chounllor sitting so the Court of Chancery
the steestauer of two judges, tot two judges whom be might
sunset to iosist him on occasions of importance, hut,
se he (Mr. Stuart) understood, the Lord Chancellor
was to Is Ire rmunently and constantly associated with
him the Master of the Itiels and u cocoons. Loa judge, with
one or the othi r of whom he must be associated, and both
of,wlwie, in the atewogy of the lord Chancellor, may die-
clime the duties of that high Mike. This won a very
Duvet swoon:a, for rat protein, is. the Court of Chancery
wen couslitutrol, the Lord Chancellor was in the habit,
when caves requiring it occurred, to call others to Lis
smidanie. The Lord l'hamellor had at present the power
of/ogling to his oassistanCe the Meekr of the Rolls, nod of
remeceing the neeperatiou of a nommen law judge, when
matters art intricacy or important... required it. 'fhe princi-
ple of tie noble lord was that the Lord Chanellue
Refer could have business be was competent or should
be. allowed to transact without assistance. Consider the
s-hfrt of this. The noble lord had said, and most truly.
Rod the judicial strength of the Court of Chancery was
haul, quilt,. tor the performance of the business of the court;
that was, they bad the Master of the hulls 'Offing in his
own coart, two %ire-chancellor+ sitting in their mint, and
the Innl Chaiteellor in the supreme court, nod all them !
were not *efficient to get thrinigh the business. The tint'
effect of this Measure would he to shut the court of the
Ma-ter of the Rolls. (hear, hear.) 'Phis was a serious
rolMethin. The: learned judge who fwd just reline'
from the ollieu of the Nbester of the leul been
in the habit of sitting as a privy councillor, and
abstracting that time from the Rolls Court which ought to
hare been • oitirely denoted to it.. What had leen the con-
now was ? Why, there bad been nut only a great arrest of
None s-, loot-alters had Inmate so dissatibried that they did
not resort to the 'tolls Court, and teen with the diminished
business, the arrears had been very large. 111. (Mr. Stuart)
complained that the Master of the ItuUs, with all the cum'.
merits of the office, should devote hie time to other
inject.. It had been the practice to take the Master
of the Bolls as a commissioner, and the Vice-Chancellor
art England, if he hall health to do it, to bit with
anothi r learned juil,;e in the Court of Chancery, to admi-
nister the duties of the Lord Chancellor, and by undo tuk-
ing to telminister these judicial duties the suitors had term
placed in a situation disgraeefill to the government. The
doors of two of the interior courts had been shut to the
suitors. It might he said that there existed peculiar rea-
son, for meth a tome., but he should like to hear any rea-
sons whielt would he of a satisfactory character. The noble
lord had stated a sirs whimsical mown for seising assistanee
to the Lord Chancellor. Nobility estimated mitre than hr
(Mr. Stuart) did the judicial ability 0,1 Lord Cottenharn.
Ile stated his opinion of his merits without any ro ferettre to
political estredtlerotiow. Inn) Cootteultam, in the rigour of
his life, in the coMytuent of toll health, had limn Iletti to
perharnserl all the duties of lord Chimes llor without any
complaint ode zees, of labour, and had never inv. ik I-11 aloe' such
as.. .Lowe us was promised by the noble lord (Inod J.
The mottle lord kW' lord Cottenhem used to sit up till
two sir three o'clock he them g, awl his tut :mina was,
that after sinner up to that
tint lit to attend eabiont councils Now, Ise neser knew a
era who eelsibited lest fatigue than Intel Cotteuhani
oven at the rising of his court. It was propowil that the
lend Chancellor should have the 3laster of the lions
sod a common law judge to assist him. Ile should hale
thought that if the n• was tine thing which would make
the lord l'ltaneellor more anxious than another,
it would he the having to do liter his judgment
net as now, before the Cur who, heavier they might think
higu w g, eould not ray u but iu tlw foie of two
sosseors, who could give their reasons Cur ilitferiug from
him. Ile did soot know in what way the noble lord toil."
had that the gisint u ilecisiem in • raw could be a die iiled
labour. To his mind the great excellence of the judg-
ments of the l'ourt of Chancery was lasing them pro-
must. of by a single judge. They had hail experieuee of the
other nurse. Whore Lord l'ottenliatn was made chancels
hot he s it w it h 3Ir.J wain. lkswisquet and the V ive-Char.cellor
of ho 'Lend urthw Mash roof the Holt., and delivered his best
judgiut, its when he set alone. lb: thought it a mere
teemed. mire to saddle the Lord Chancellor with two
awes of that description. But the 'wide lord went a
genet deal turther. Concurring in the et 'on of the im-
portance gel the ethic' of tort' Chanceller, and agreeing
that the whine! and judicial fourth,n ought not to be
...parotid. the noble lord would enable the 'maim* of
the Court of .Chantery to be trunsuteel without any
Lord (is smell,* at all. Ilow extremely absurd it Was to
nuke an arrangement which should enable the business
to be transacted in the °borer*. of the Lord (*hanienior.
Ile del nut *ay thew uloj“.tions could not he answerer!
It was a mew uwasure, and deserved the greatest consich ra-
tam. With regard to the etelebiostical patronage, the can-
didate. Mr pntectierst were now to resort to the See re tory
of Mt. Tr, asury. The noble lord shook his head, but he
understood the Treasury transacted its business us lather
government do partniesits del, through a secretary. Ile
(Mr. smart) would, much rather that the patronage should
relL.lill in the hood,. of an individual who was supposed to
I* worthy of w hat was celled the keeper of the QUeen'lll
evueer, than that it should be at the disposal el the
first minister of the crown, who perchance would bestow it—
hr would not iny Irma huge emisielenstlone—but upon toted-
donate.. w hich ought to be far rminotell from those to he
ailied to the gift of Inhere and Ist mikes iu the aturell of
land.
r. KUUNDELL PALMER Paid if he were to come to
this great question in a spirit of oppewiti 111 l , he plumb' dose
on the semi,' reading, and should not new freers:l-e upon
the attention of the house. But feeling as he did. mid
deeply, the immortauce and the ditheulty of the subject,
lead eei.liing, is it were p,.-isle, rather to assist in de:d-
ime with .t than tit otler any olvetruction, he thought that
might u fitting occasion for etating the very serious olifti-
value, he felt about the measure Pr0t...4 in; the noble
teed, Ile thought it was a measure that /Mild give eat*.
faction neither to the profession, to the suitoirs, nor to the
',yews,. It was proposed to relieve the Lord Chalweller
from posies/ close attentiou to the judiciol business of his I
court. mod fur that purpose to gise him the assistance of
the MA-ter of the Rolls and of a judge of one of
the coin' 11111 l law courts. Now if the Lord Chuncellor was to
lie relit sod from the duty of giving clime and constant '
atte.ntien to the detail., the iuesitable consequence
„„erould be that the...quit) and the common law judge, who I
to be seauriated with hint, would virtually take hie
*re. And, that again would I irtually amount to at Rho-
Utiou of the Rolle' Court, seeing that the Muter of the
Bulls would not sit in his own court. and the Lent Chan-
teller's court to. It uppeured.to bins too. that the mtosure
would taus, a diminution of iln• judicial officers of the Court I
of l'h every, at a time when an iuerense was nem drd. What ,
he would prOplose Was this that the Land Chancellor should
have two reel-taut judges, and that th,oe judge,. olvould be
taken from the lot mein on the bench, or in the courts.
After all, this would he a judicious economy. Ile would
propose that tiny should consolidate the colitis of kink-
ruptcy with the court., of chancery, as was formerly the
cage. and then, by remising the system of administrution
iu
bankruptev„ tool in the "dusters' edicts, they would be able
to threw ell the accountant bushier,* of the court, of chan-
cery and bankruptcy together, and to withdraw
business from those courts, either of meter, or com-
reneeium es, to such an extent as to provide fowls
out of which to pay the additional judges in chan-
cery. Ile further objected, in the plan of the nimble
lord, to the *theme of providing for the assistance of the !
lend Chaueellor a judge from the courts of common law.
judges he the common law courts were already few
ttiouglo, it they rewarded only the burin se treneueted in I
London ; but it they hooked to the necessities of circuit and
the administration at tied priele, it would tw obvious that
the withdrawal of a single judge would be an evil of which
jest complaint might be trade. Ile was far from disparag-
ing the suggest:un of a common law judge taking his seat
in an equity court. They had had, before thee, such
judges in the equity courts with good results ; he
thought with beneficial results in the case of the
present Lord Chancellor ; but at the tame time it should he
understood, that while the union of the two practices did
result in benefit, it was indispensable that there should be
that comprehe n•is. keno', lute; and that n familiarity w
the common law should he crinelrned in a judge in as
equity court, with considerable experience of equity prac-
tice. The bon. and learned member said, in conclusion,
thiebehopoo **sable teed would receive these opinions with
of the conviction that they was °fend without the slightest

wish to do otherwise dim assistithe government to the
utmost of hie power in their meet Amendable movement
in this direction.
Mr. S. WOICiLEY had eoneuned in every word which ,
had fallen from the noble lord in the course of his speech, I
up to the point when he began to develop his plan in re- I
;turd to the Court, of Chancery. Ile feared that, in form- I
, ing this plan, the noble lord had suecumbed to the unfor-
tunate influence of the committee which had sat last year to
consider the subject of salaries. The recommendations of
that committee were throughout based on a false economy;
and he considered that the same false economy had had by
far ton much to do with the proposition then bt•fi ore the house.
. The plan was wholly deficient in respect to the
appellate jurisdiction of tho Mow of Lords. At
present the complaint was that an appeal was from
I the Lord Chancellor in the Court of Chancery to
, the same individual in the House of Lords. By this
proposed plan the appeal would be from a court, eon-
setting of the Lord Chancellor, the Master of the lions,
and a common-law judge, to the Lord Chancellor alone ;
that was to say, the appeal would be Imm a strong to a weak
1 court; thus reverting the proper and legitimate order of
fe things. Another dect in this plan was that it pro-
,vided no remedy for the grievance severely felt in
regard to appeals from the Scotch law courts.
Mr. IIEADLAM saw considerable defects in the proposal
of the noble bard. Ile rejoiced, however, that the first
step towards a reform of the Chancery Courta hail been
taken.
Lord J. RI:SSELL, at that stage of the proceedings,
would only say that the objections whirls had been urged
by the hon. and learned gentlemen who had addressed the
house were not, ho felt satisfied, made in any unfriendly
epirit ; and that he would take some little time to consider
them. (Hear.) Ile had omitted one part of the subject
when he spoke last, namely, that with respect to the
offices that were in the appointment of the Lord Chancellor
some considerable reforms and coneolidations were contem-
I plated. There were some offices that it was necessary to
' retain, and some that might be abolished; but the Lord
(7haucellur would pay every attention to the subject.
(hear, hear.) With regard to the appellate jurisdiction,
he had reason to believe that the attention of the
house of Lord, would shortly be called to the subject.
(Cheers.)
Sir 11. WILLOUGHBY remarked, that what the pub-
lic wanted was to see some improvement in the expenditure
far conducting suit* in Chancery, and to see the reduction
or total abolition of fees. (Cheers.) The public were de-
eirons of the substitution of salaries for fees. (Hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL referred the hon. baronet
who had just sat down to the select committee on the Court
of Chancery, by which he would find that the subject was
materially ulfected by the payment of the fees into a conso-
lidated fund.
Leave was then given to bring in the hill.
GENERA!, M EItCHANT Sie.t3lEN'S ACT.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE mired for leave to bring in a
hill to extend the benefit of certain provisions of the above
net, relating to apprentices hound to the sea service, to ap-
prentices hound to the sea service by boards of guardians of
the piper of Ireland.
Leave granted.
LOSS OF TIIE ORION.
Mr. BILOTHEItTON (for Mr. Hum) moved for copies
of the correepuudence that by taken place since the report
.if Captain Denham (on the lon of the Orion steamer, on
the 15th of June, 15.10), respecting the position of the light
at Fortis:Brick Harbour, between the Board of Trails., the
Admiralty, the Commissioners of the Northern Light-
' buus,e, the hydrographer of the Admiralty, the Tidal Har-
bour Committee, and the committee fur managing the
strgir. at Lloyd's.
Agreed to.
PROBATE OF WILLS.
Mr. MCLLINGS moved fur returns of the names and
imolunneits of judges, registrars, awl deputy registrars
having a right to grant !indent," of will. and letters of
administration in the province of Canterbury for the Led
oven years ; and showing the annual expense incurred by
the registrar* and deputy registrars in keeping indexes of
the same.
Agreed to.
REGISTRATION OF DEEPS.
Mr. MU LUNGS moved fur a return of the amount of
fees received by the registrars of 'Wide in Mithllceex, or
their deputies for the two last yearn, and of the applica-
tion of such tees ; also un account of the fees received for
searching spacial or new indexes, and of the authority
under which such fee, um demanded ; of the names of
the riyistrure, deputies, and clerks, and of the emoluments

of each.
Agreed to.
POOR LAW (IRELAND).
The order of the day was discharged.
APPRENTICES AND SERVANTS' BILL.
Sir W. JOLLIFEE proposed the following clause
"That where any young person, under the age of eighteen,
ah hereafter In, hired or taken as a servant front the
workluone of any union or parish, or shall be bound
out a, an apprentice by the guardians of any union, or by
the guardians or overseers of any 'wish, and the rt.-
sidenee of the master or mistreva shall he more than five
mil.% from any part of such union or parish, then a written
notice of such hiring, taking, or binding, specifying the
name and age of the apprentice or servant, and the name,
description, and nvideuee of such master or mistress, shall
be forthwith sent from such guardians or overseers to the
guanli ins or overseers of the union or parish in which ouch
master or mistress shall reside; and thereupon it shall
bee • tlw ditty of such hot-mentioned guardians or over-
seers to cause the particulars cuutained in such notice to be
registenal in some hook or hooka, to be provided by them
for the purl...sir,. together with the name of the union or
parish loon winch such notice shall have been received;
and stab last-mentioned guardian. or overseers shall WOW
ouch young person to be visited us frequently, and in the
same manner in all respect,. as if such young person bad
Jaen hired or taken front their own workhouse, or had been
bound Out as an apprentice by themselves."
Agreed to.
A P POI NT AI ENT OFA VICE-CHANCELLOR'S BILL.
Sir II ENRY WILLOUGHBY explained that he had
not brought forward the motion he was about to make in
committee, as he ought to have done, because he had been
misinformed as to the proper time for introducing it. lle
begged to propose that the retiring pension of the Vice-
' The ATTORNEY-GENERAL dissented from the view
"lithe hon. baronet. his only consideration for the house
wee, fur what sum they could secure the most efficient
services. No gentleman had ever yet accepted the unite
e(Viee-Chaneellor without a very great diminution of ins
aseae•—in HOLM instiumes greater than would be supposed.
The consequence was, it often happened that the ser-
vices of the best men were lust to the country.
Judge, only accepted these low salaries by remain of the
retiring allowance. It would also be a great evil to have
judge* retaining their office to an arc when they were no
limner efficient to perform its functions. To prevent this,
it was necessary to have a large retiring allowance. The
first five vice-chancellors had no retiring allowance; and
the exception had only occurred in the caw of Sir J. •
Witeram. He was confident that a serious evil would be
inflicted on the administration of justice, if a sufficient
retiring allowance was uut made. On this ground he hoped
the motion of the hon. baronet would not be adopted.
Owing to the great reluctance to pay proper salaries, fens
bad to be paid out of the suitors' fund in Chancery.
The house then divided—
For Sir 11. Willoughby's motion 32
Against it
ENFRANCHISEMENT OF COPYHOLDS BILL.
Mr. AGLIONBY begged to move the second reading of
this hill, with a view to referring it to a ticket committee.
If opposed, he should abandon his motion to some other
I thee.
I After a few word* from Mr. Mines" in which he
urged that the government should be the parties to bring
in the Intl,
The bill was read a second time.
CIVIL BILLS (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. HATCH ELI. moved the second reading of this bill.
Mr. REYNOLDS moved, as an amendment, that the
house now adjourn.
Mr. KEOGH seconikd the amendment.
The O'GORMAN MAIION censored so factious a course
of opposition on the art of Irish members.
Mr. E. B. ItOCILE protested against the bill being
presual at that hour. (Hear, hear.)
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that if the principle of the
bill was opposed, it would of course be useless to press the
second reading at that hour. But he understood, from the
intimations of hon. gentlemen opposite, that it was their I
wish that the 'second reading should he moved then. (Hear.)
Mr. EEO° II said that he did not wish it to go forth that
be was opposed to the principle of the bill.
Mr. HATCH ELI. said that he bad distinctly stated to
lion. gentlemen opposite, that the hill woo a measure for the
consolidation of about fifty acts of parliament on this
subject. He had stated what the nature, the extent,
and the character of the bill was, and lie believed
that the principle of it was well known to the Irish members
In that house.
Mr. M`CCLLAGII said that what they complained of
was that Irialt business was treated in a very different
manner in that house from the way in which English
business was conducted. (Hear, hear.) If the bill was
ea had been represented by the hon. and learned gentleman.
be fur one would not oppose the second reading. But the
bill was very different from what it hut been represented,
and, therefore, he did not think they could agree to the
principle of it at that hour without some discussion.
After a few 1.0,114 from Mr. AN.Tri.
Lord PALMERSTON said that their time was some-
times wasted b7 differences of opinion,. but now it was
wasted although they were all agreed with regard to the
bill. Ilia right hon. friend was going to pootpone the bill •
when an intimation came from the other side that he ought
to proceed with it at that moment But when he proposed
the second reading then they called on him to postpone it.
(Laughter.) He was sure that his right hon. friend had
no intention of pressing the bill contrary to the wishes of
hon. members.
The motion for the adjournment of the house was then
withdrawn and the bill postponed.
MERCHANT SEAMEN'S "IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion of Sir W. SOMERVILLE, a bill to ex-
tend the benefit of certain provisions of the General Mer-
chant Seamen's Act, relating to apprentices bound to the
sea service by boards of guardian, of the Poor in Ireland,
was brought an and read a Sent time.
The house then adjourned at two o'clock.