The Express.
London, England, 1849-05-15 00:00:00

Lord J. RUSSELL, in reply to the question pot by Mr.
J. Stuart, observed that he had always undetstood the
oath as declaring that the Pope had no jurisdiction or autho-
rity which could he enforced by any court in this kingdom,
and, (or himself, he was artistiod with that interpretation.
But there were persons, as Lord Clammy and whets, who
found a d.fliculty In taking this oath; and, though he did
not agree wish the interpretation which en,we per-
sons put upon it, be had thought it right to
make some alteration, with the view of removing
the scruples they entertained—Lord Clatcarty hay.ng put
his opinions in this matter on record, he (Lord J Russell)
wrot- oi him t e know whether he had any objection to AS
words of the Roman catholic oath, and he r. plied that he
had not. The rotors he had thought it better to make the
alterations tropmed than to leave words which were misun-
derstood by persons who were in all other respects entitled to
it in purlieu:tent. But the hon. and learned g-ntlemen
asked wbeth. r, if the words proposed to be lef out were
omitted, and others not inserted in their stead, we should
not be in effect acknowledging the supremacy of the Pope,
and to that extent altering the common law of
the land 1 Now he (Lord J. Ru.s-ll) could not
see how the common law could be alterea by their omitting
to take an oath—(hear)—and the supremacy of the Pope not
beim( mow allowed by our common last, he submitted that it
would remain tiresome whether the oath were taken or not.
(Rear, bear.)
Mr. V. SMITH thought the proper course was to adopt
one form uf oath yf.ich all could tsk-. But he would now
adopt that part of the amendment to which the neNe lt.rd
agr,ed, and tten sutmit the other par: to the committee.
(" Divide.")
Mr. DISRAELI suggested the expediency of printing the
oath as it was now proposed to stand.
Lord J. RUSSELL could have no objection to that after
the house should have gone through the bill in committee.
(Cries of "Divide.")
• • •

Mr. LAW inquire! what was the question upon which
they were about to divide ?
The CHAIRMAN (hir. Bernal) replied on the omission
of the words aenyi g that the Pose, or any foreign
prince, potentate, &e., had, or ought V) have, tentp,ral or
civil jurisdiction or authority within these tealcos and
undertaking to defend the settlement of property, &c The
question he should base to put 1149, that the words " 1 do
not believe that the rope, &e." stand part of the bill.
Mr. DISRAELI objected that they were no* confound-
ing two points together which bad uo connez!on—a men
might admit the jurisdiction of the Pope and yet not desire
to alter the settlement of property.
Mr. LAW acknowledged his ignorance of the precise
before the house. A specific amendment had been
moved of wh.ch notice hod been given, *..d t vorirun of
that the u Ale lord et the head of the goverumtut wsented,
and another portion of it he repudiated.
Mr.STUART roe. mill vehement airs of, " Oh ! oh!"
and at ones resumed his seat.

Mr. SPOONER, amid :reit uproar, moved that the
chairman report progress and ask leave to sit again.
Lord J. RUSSELL eu'mitted that it was v. ry unfair to
submit etch a motion as that of the h. it. no mbar be War-
wickshire (Mr. Sp.amer). He had reeve r h. aid awe t etion
better echoed than the one of that evening. The whole
question had been fully die.umed by several hen. and right
hon. members. (Hear.)
Mr. SPOONED. conf. serd car. didly that he did not ander-
stand the question be'ore the house. (L cud laughter.)
The CHAIRMAN explained the mode in which he should
put the question. He should ask whether the house seemed
assent to the omission of the words relative to the nun-juris-
diction of the Pope in this country ?
Mr. PLUMPTRE said that the question came upon him
and others by surprise, and that they were not prepared for
it. ("Oh, oh.") Hu thought the chairman ought to be
allowed to report progress.
Sir G. GREY could not imsgine how any bon. member
could be taken by surprise, seeing that the amendment bad
been printed. The question had been fairly submitted to the
house, and he had never head arguments ten the one side so
well combated by arguments I`ll the othir. If there were
any bon. members who thought the oath in di. printed bill
ought to be retained, the) would vote against the omission of
any words therefrom.
Mr. DISRAELI thought that at that hour (12 o'clock) it
was not an unreasonable request of the hoe. member tor
Warwickshire, that the chairman should report progress,
and ask leave to sit spin. He (Mr. Disraeli) was a very
warm eupprertcr of the hill. and did not wish to throw any
impediment in its way. ("Oh, eh.")
Lord J. RUSSELL •edil that he had already elated three
times that he was quite ready to omit the words with respect
to the Pope and the settlement of property, believing them
to be unnecessary.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL wished to know what the words
about the settlement of property we re ming to be Lett out
for? (Loud laughter) These weeds were en the Roman
catholic oath.
—I6.7ROEBUCK thought the construction of the right
hon. gentleman (Sir 0. Grey) would probably mislead some
hoc. members. (Laughter.) They should take the oath
word by weird. It they objected to a word, cot ceiviiig what
it led to, they would vote against it ; if 'stoking at the word,
and knowing to what it led, they would vote for it. (Great
laughter.) If he said " No," to the word, let them say
" Aye." (Rows of laughter.)
After a few words from Mr. BILuTHEUTON,
Mr. P. MILES 'hid the mode in which the Chairman
propeeed tee put the question was perfectly unintelligible ;
but he wanted to know whether in the care of a bill of this
importance the country should not know the alterations
which the gov emetic pro' cued ? They now absolutely pro-
posed to omit eight lines out of an . ath originally consisting
of twelve, and he really did think that the country deserved
to be enlightened upon the subject. (Cheers.) Fur this
reivon be nought that his been. friend the member for War-
wickshire was pi rtectly justified in moniug that the Chair-
man report preg-eat end obiaia leave to sit agr.in. (Laud
protectionist cheers )
Toe committee then divided—
Fur reporting progress 122
Against it
The committee again divided bet ire we we re re admitted
to the gallery, up,a the question that the chairman now
leave the the r
For the motion
Ag it
Lord J. RUSSELL then consented that the Chairman
should report i rogresa, and ask leave to sit again.
INCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND).
This bill passed through committee pro forma.
ESTATES LEASING (IRELAND).
This bill passed through committee.
ST. JOHN'S, NEWFOUNDLAND, REBUILDING
BIL.
This bill was read a third ume, and passed.
MARRIAGES IN CONSULS' HOUSES.
Lord PALMERSTON. in snoring for leave to bring
in a bill to legalise marriages celebrated abroad in eon-
suls' houses, stated that, according to the present
law, marriages between English subjects. in foreign countries
were obliged to be celebrated in the ambassadors' or
ministers' houses, and gre,t inconvenience hating tritest
from this restriction, it had been thought necessary to bring
in a bill rendering marriages in consuls' houses legal. Re
begged, therefore, to move for leave to bring in a bill for
that wrote. Leave was accordingly granted, and the bill
was brought in.
The house adjourned at one o'clock.

The erprtoo.