The Express.
London, England, 1849-05-09 00:00:00

and shipping, and by obtaining fresh outlets for their pro
dwelt:me and industry. The motile earl made sows further
observations, which were perfectly inaudible in the galled.

Earl NELSON regretted that ouch a measure u the pre•
meat should have been brought forward after the very strong
meanies of opinion that had been manifested on the sub-
ject by the mantratile and shipping classes, aid by the wit-
mass estaininsi begin their lordships' essamittee. He
could show that out 182 petitiene st bill
and 60 petitions hof
e it, whisk had bendsid one their
lordship' table, 67 alike forme wore hem landowners; and
all the rest IMO from preens semsested with shipping, either
directly or thr_ouglt the shwas of essamerce. Re would not
go into the eoloolei port of the question; but be would only
sweat all the &muds ef the colonists could be conceded
giant undo the Wein navigation laws, and the refuel
of the parliament to grant those concessions had been the
sense why the osienies had petitioned the legislature to pass
the present NIL As to the retaliatory clauses which the bill
eseedsted, they could never be enforced, and the first step
ease it became law, would be to repeal those clause.
Although Lord Nan bad been dead many years his
seamy was not fipplemb sad although the navigation laws
ashes be lived undergone great changes, still their
prig-
dohs remeined the isms se in his day. He could not forget
dint Lad Noises disobeyed ordain and subjected himself to
Wel by erarbasertia in his determination to maintain the
*eft of ass navigation laws in the West Indies. He pur-
sued the mime line of policy at Copenhagen, and he luid
msieWastul the deepest anxiety to spare the bloiodshed which
boa 110111111111 at that city, in which he might have enc-
omia he have got his fleet away in time
Mika direententit Beads. Lord Nelson would never
Iwo bees Ale ell mks good the national defence.' of England
la the peer II MI bed we the navigation laws existed
where emit he have hurl Gallon, or whence would B-
lend have prosured bee menelacial navy, but by means of
ewes laws ? He wouldenly.say one word es to the attempts
new
maids; to establish arbitrations between forelgn powers
ia cues of dispute. It was all very well to talk of peaceful
arbitrations; bat, even framing all the nations of Europe
to to that mode of settling disputes, what secti-
Zrylvd resort
as there that some master spirit should not rise up and
faros on a war, sad bow could the British nation be safe if
she had not a naval force ? He called upon all who had
the interests of their country at heart to oppose the measure,
and to trust to the experience of the post, Tether than to
the vogue promises whisk were founded on issprestioable
end unsound theories.
Earl BRUCE said that as en independent member of
their lordships' house, who usually supported the measures
of government, he should feel it to be his duty to state the
ramose why he bad come to the genital= that
titre never had been • measure which he bad a
men perfect conviction was • right one than the
present. If he thought the bill would
the naval efltriency of the United Kingdom, be world
the last man to support it. It bad been argued by the op-
poemits of the present measure that it was batter to leave
Wan as they were. But he bagged to say, things 'saki
not be left as they were. All things were in a coarse of
change. The colonieswere undergoing the meet embus
changes, in consequence of the legislature hay's, entirely'
altered their position. The colonies had lost the protection
which they formerly enjoyed, end it was natural for them to
souk to indemnify themselves by extending their commute

Earl TALBOT said, that in the first plane there was not
the slightest necessity for this 11140111 T• ; and, in the second
place, one were it desirable in any point of view, its effects
upon what should be our meat cherished interest would be so
deeply injurious that it ought never to have been enter-
tabled by the legislature. That the D 111•0•8 best acquainted
with the real nature of the ease denied the maintenance of
the present law, was manifest from the great bulk of the tes-
timony before their lordships' committee, and from the ex-
ceedingly important petitions which had been presented
from the most influentially commercial quarters against
it—petitions presented in the most nastitutional way he
had ever known.
The Earl of WALDEGRAVE next addressed the house,
bat in so low a tone of voice that zone of his observations
reached the gallery.
The Earl of HARROWBY said that befere he addressed I
their lordships on the subject before the how, he wished
to say a few words in referee oe to the observations of his
noble and learned friend respecting an hon. friend of his,
a member of the other house of parliament, whose chanc-
ier had been alluded to lost night by his noble and learned
friguL The charge brought against the hon. member for
Liverpool (Mr. Cardwell) by his noble friend was, that he
hod mud ineousisteotly with the pledge he made to the
electors of Liverpool in voting for the repeal of the naviga-
dot laws. His noble and learned friend was mil-
taken in supposing that any such pledge was made.
The noble lord here referred to the eircumstanees attend-
fig the late election for Liverpool, and quoted some doou.
seats from which it appeared that hie. Cardwell stated
that he would not vote for any measure which he thought
would injuriously affect the maritime and *seal supremacy
of this country, that he would wait for the result of the
committee which was sitting on the subject of the naviga-
tion laws, and that he should consider himself perfectly
free and unfettered as to the course he should
pursue id reference to their repeal. Upon this
state of facts he was sure their lordships would
acquit the hon. gentleman of the charge which hie noble
and learned friend brought against hiss. (Hear, hear.)
With regard to the question before the house, he felt all the
difficulty of engaging their lordships' attention upon a sub-
ject which had been already so much diecurel. Before he
had the honour bf a seat in their lordships' house he had
given • vote in the other house of parliament for the
appointment of • committee to consider the subject of the
navigation laws, for he confessed he was not so bigoted to the
navigation laws as they stood as to think that it might not be
advisable, after the lapse of time, when the circumstances of
the eountry and its position in relation to other nations had
ellimeged, to introduce a measure of this nature. The question
was whether this was a measure dangerous to their naval an-
premacy, and whether, without the aid of these laws, they
Gould maintain that supremacy • bonnie if that
supremacy could not be maintained without them, they
must so far abandon the principle of free trade. A great
quantity of statistics had been brought forward to show that
the repeal of the navigation laws would not affect their
supremacy at sea, but the way in which these statistics had
been pre eared tended rather to Munn than to throw
light ea the question at issue. The statistics to which he
ref,rred had been got up by a panties ro = omested with
the Board of Trade, with whom he was on terms
of private intercourse, but of whose returns on this subject
• sense of public duty compelled him to say what bethought.
(Hear, hear.) In the first place, any preen who read then
papers must see that they were produced for the purpose of
operating on the public mind in regard to this question.
These returns had reference to the results of the free-
trade measures of the last few years, with regard to
that part of their trade which was now practically unpro-
tected. But they were produced not on a question
of trade, but on • question of navigation. Now,
if they were not valuable as a guide upon a
question of navigation they should not have been produced at
all. (Hear.) A large mass of figures had been produced
under the bud of unprotected trade to show that they could,
as appeared from the experience of the last few years, engage
without danger in competition with all the nations et the
world • bat on looking closely into the subject is was found
that oithis nominally unprotected trade the larger portion
was practically protected, and that there was not that free
and open intercourse which alone was the question at
issue. (Hear, hen.) The tonnage of England was
rated at 656,000 tons, whilst that of France was only
262,000. But there wss no note appended—nothing what-
ever to indicate to them that this superiority of England was
owing to steam-boat navigation—that it comprehended the
vast variety of steam-vowels which made constant and re-
peated passages scrose the Channel. (Hear, bear.) New,
this could not be called an increase in the tonn age of
going vessels, vessels, although that was the impreseion which teen
papers would create in their lordships' minds. (Hear, hear.)
It would be just as fair to say that the travelling by coaches
in this country had greatly increased in consequence of
railroads because a great number of cabs were con-
stantly going to and returning from Boston-square. (Hear.)
Yet this representation had produced its effect on the public
mind, and even in their lordships' house, because noble
lords en the other side had repeatedly referred to this in.
crease of the unprotected trade, as exhibited in Mr. Porter's
tables, whereas the fact was that they had no bearing what-
ever on the satinet. (Hear.) They were also told that
there was a great in the open trade with the United
States ; but they were never told that if they examined the
subject, the increase of the vessels of the United States was
still greater. (Cheers.) They were told that the British
tonnege engaged in the open unprotected trade with the
United States amounted, in 1846, to 811,000 tons. Thou
who were acquainted with the intercourse between the two
countries must have been startled at such a stethment. Here,
again, it was found on inquiry that this amount of tonnage
was made up much in the same way as the tonnage between
this country and the countries on the other side of the
channel, namely, of the repeated voyages of steam vessels
between this country and America, and also the steam-boat
communication between the United States and Canada
through the lakes. He did not mesa to impute to Mr.
Porter any other design in making these representations
than that which led an individual, who was an enthusiast in
any cause, to hazard extraordinary assertions in sup-
port of it. (Hear, hear.) These tables, then, had
no bearing on the question before the house. If the
bill were passed, the vessels of this country would, by
the first of Sao. next, be brought into immediate competition
with those of every other country in the world ; and he did
not know how it was possible by that period to obtain equi-
valent advantage,. The very attempt to obtain such advan-
tages would involve this country in that commercial warfare,
irritation, and ill blood, which had been so strongly de-
nounced by noble lords opposite. (Hear, hear.) He saw
here one element of the squabbling and the evasion which
were always practised when nations strove to " keep the
word of promise to the ear, and break it to the hope." He
fully admitted the difficulties which surrounded the case as
regarded the colonies, and that was the only question which
had caused him the least hesitation on the sub-
s jest. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the West Indian
colonies, it was natural that their annoyance at the
abolition of their own privileges should have led them at
first to demand the repeal of the navigation laws. But one
after another, the West Indian colonise had disappeared
from the scene—(mmar, bear)—and he had that evening seen
a petition from a body of colonists, who stated that the
repeal of the navigation laws would be to them anything but
• boon. It was =pueblo to deny the importance of con-
ciliating Canada, a colony which was adjacent to the United
States, and which, by a recent change of imperial policy,
for which it was unprepared, had lost what could not be
denied to be great advantages, It was, however, admitted
by his noble friend opposite that the grievance of Canada
might be redressed by other means than the repeal of the Ravi.
laws. (Hear.) Looking at the question as one which
Sailors
free trade, the defences of the country, and there-
fore its vmy existence, he could not be a party to the repeal
of the navigation laws ; and he must, therefor*, support the
amendment of his noble friend.
Lord BROUGHAM wished toexplain, in consequence of
the observations of his noble friend, that he had not in-
tended to make an attack on Mr. Cardwell any more than
upon his excellent and valued friend, Sir Junes Graham,
who made a speech on the same side of the question. Sir
Thomas Brucker proposed Mr. Cardwell, and Mr. Bram-
well Moore, the present mayor of Liverpool, secoeded him.
The latter gentleman, on being called upon to defend him
selthaftfohrebahvlndg
aiseezirdedbeMenr.uCnadredrwthelle, told the town council
Cardwell was opposed to the repeal of the prin-
ciple of the navigation laws, and he quoted from
one of Mr. Cardwell's speeches a outage to this effect :
"Do you roe by whom lam surrounded t On my left Mr.
Bramwell Moore, my seconder, on my right the chairman
of the shipowners' association. Do you think I should be so
surrounded and so supported if I were against the principle
of the navigation laws I' It was good to leave well alone •
it was not bad to leave alone, for fear it should be made
worse. (Laughter.)
Lord WHARNCLIFFE said the attempt bad been
made to show, by means of evidence given before
their lordships' committee, that there was no neces-
sary connexion between the prosperity of the mercan-
tile marine and that of the royal navy ; but one able
and experienced officer was the only witness who supported
that view and in opposition to that officer's statement that
his experience had led him to the belief that not more than
6 per nat. of the men in the navy were derived from the
mercantile marine, was to be set the testimony
of the Registrar-General, that half of the entire
number were obtained from that source (Hear, hear.)
All the champs recently made had been necessitated fry other
changes which had formerly taken place, and by circum-
stances, in spite of and beyond our control.i (Hear, hen.)
In 1663 our laws were then so restrictive that the entire
trade of our colonies, of which we had then • considerable
number, was confined to their own coasting trade; but this
could not be enforced, in spite of the most prohibitory re-
gulations. When, • bundled years after, in 1766, the navi-
gation laws were pasted, we were then compelled to relax
the former restrictions, not for the interest of the colonies,
but because circumstances oompelled the change. Subse-
quent alteratioes were forced upon us by the revolt of
OW American colonies ; and in these, as well as in the more
recent changes of 1818, 1820, and 1821, instead of this
country adopting a uniform principle of action, and
gradually relaxing restrictions u occasion arose, she
had been driven by the necessities of the cue, and
had acted in obedience to circumstances which could
not be controlled. By this means the navigation laws, ori-
entity a complete and effective prohibition of all intercourse
between the dependencies of this country and other coun-
tie, were so modified that they no longer produced that
effect. The result of successive alterations was that they
were complicated beyond all comparison. (Hear, hear.) It
was worth while for any the, simply out of curiosity, to east
his eye over the various statutes that had been pawed. They
involved such a series of complications and contradictions
that it was almost impossible for any one who had not paved