The Express.
London, England, 1851-06-18 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JUNE 18, 1851.

ms.7lleifffirilie In Millie so) in regard to many of the peace which did honour to him and to the country in which
rnrGni i_eltielt Ise had from time to time ex- they were proclaimed ; but he should njeet to being sent
s that th—lietwever little he might think the bound and uttered into a negotiation through whisk, be
web& by whielt be endeavoured to give practical effect to confessed, he could not see a practical way—not leans* be
leis gemend prinhples were the best calculated to attain his objected to the end which the hon. member to
mg.... in !void to his international principles and accomplish, but because he thought that e was sore
agge klegnnend feelings which influenced his political likely to be accelerated by the language of the bon. ms-
Anus se dm advocate of peace, be (the noble lord) was ber and by the sentiments which he and the boric were ex-
any to do the most ample justice, u well as to subscribe to pressing, than it would be by the particular and to
gra general tendency. (Hear, hear.) He trusted motion which he had now submitted. (Hear, hear.) On
gin while it had been his lot to take the those grenade he trusted that his hon. friend would be
ehmlahtration of one department of the affairs of this satisfied with the expression of approbation which his sea-
there had been nothing in his conduct in any timents had met with from the house, and with the eon-
inconsistent with the opinions that he now ex- currence of the government, in the molt ardent desire
gessird. (Loud cheers.) However easy it might be for which any mast in the country or the world could entertain,
Ism gnitlemen, in that jaunty way in which these ques- that the govereasis of this country and of ell other fla-
gmen* been discussed, to talk of intermeddling, he could Lions, as far m their influence and power of 'on ea-
st hut appeal to the facts to show that during the consider- tended, might seek to avert, as long as they lap an things
able period he had been responsible for the foreign affairs to do with the affairs of this cottony, the map
of this country—although events had happened in Europe calamities of war. (Cheers.) He Mimed the ben. member
of a most remarkable kind—(cheers)—attended with great would be content with thnt, and would not press Ws meths
commotion in the public feeling, and great agitation in the to • division, which might be liable to othemeleintiga.
social and political gastrin of Europe—although during He begged to assure the house that in futon, se Mess
that period events had happened which had brought the fore, the exertions of her Majesty's government wrild.be
interests of this country, if not into conflict, at least into directed to the maintenance of peace and weir. (Haar,
opposition, with those of other great and powerful nations hear.) He should say that the exocrienee of meant times
—it had at least been a fact that we had been at peace. was highly encouraging to all who wished for the minima-
(Cheers.) Not only hail peace been preserved between this nee of that peace. (Hear, hear.) He agreed with the
country and other nations, but there hail been no interns- hon. gentleman that the diffusion of constitutional govern-
flout wars of any magnitude between the other runt throughout Europe should tend to the maintenance
great powers of Europe. (Cheers.) If, then, they of general tranquillity. There was a growing disposition
were taunted with perpetual interference, end in- throughout Europe to settle the quarrels and differences of
termeddling with the concerns of other countries, nations by means of amicable treaty and negotiation.
at least they ought to have the credit, that their inter- (Hear, hear.) In the last year they had a strong
meddling had been attended with peace between those proof of that, when the mighty military governments of
countries. (Bear, hear.) They could not be accused on Prussia and Austria were arming and calling out each its
the one hand of interfering constantly in all the transactions hundreds of thousands of men, who, though on the point
of other countries, and at the same time be denied the ere- of making war upon each other, nevertheless, by the ope-
dit of the results of their polies. (Cheers.) They ought ration and effect of good sense and reason in their prelimi-
not to tie their eyes solely on a great object and not pay nary communications, terminated their dispute—though
some attention to the mail by which that object was to be nearly in hostile conflict—without the shedding of one drop
arrived at. If all nations were composed of men guided of blood. (Hear, hear.) Therefore be should say the pro-
by the most philosophic and philanthropic spirit, exempt gress of civilisation in Europe was encouraging II ON=
from all selfish feeling., and ;Ode to take the most enlarged who attached importance to the maintenance of press; and
and extensive views of human affair., a country might per- he assured the house her Majesty's ministers were as
ham he perfectly safe in announcing that it was entirely anxious as they could be not only to preserve this country
unarmed, and by throwing its If upon the good feeling of from the calamities of war, but also to exert that influent
the other nation.% assuring them that they had none but the which belonged to • country like England, on every
most friendly dispositions towards them. (Cheers.) But occasion, to save other countries from such miser= '
the world had not arrived at that pitch of civilisation when calamities. (Cheers.)
a country possessed of en many objects of desire by other Mr. ROEBUCK said, that whilst awarding admiration
contriescouldrestitinecuritysimply upon itsgood intentions. to the avowals of the noble lord who had just sat down, he
The objection he took to his hon. friend's proposal was that should observe that he had not net the proposition of his
he aimed too much at divesting this country of its means of hon. friend the member for the West Riding. The noble
defence, without waiting till other countries had pieced lord said he coincided in the object of the hon. member.
thernselsee in a similar poition. Ile put the comparison of Now let them see. Heretofore his hon. friend (Mr. Cobden)
military means wholly out of the question, and confined his dealt in large and extended views as to the pacific disponi-
motion simply to the comparison of naval resources. But Lion of mankind: at present he did no such thing. He
it was impossible to throw out of question the military came down with • practical proposition. clear, defi-
force of Freese, because if unfortunately any event should nice, and very easy of attainment. (Hear, hear.) The
arise which brought the two couutrics into hostile conflict, noble lord (Lord Palmerston) hail adverted to the adran-
tWo countries so near each other, and brought so much tagcs of general peace ; but it was not enough that France
nearer by the modern improvements of nae notion, it was and England should be shaking hands with such
impossible not to see that the country which possessed other, what was wanted was to strip the method
an army of 3.10,000 men, and a national guard glove from the hand of each. (Hear, hear.) The
of about a million as compared with a country hon. member for the West Riding referred not to the
whose standing military force a ithin the realm was armament of France, as evidenced in her internal govern.
something like 40,000 men without any militia or ment, required as it was for internal defence, as it was
national guard at all—it was impossible, in considering the called, but, as he believed, fur keeping down their own
means of defence in this country, to confine it simply to the people. (Hear, hear.) His hon. friend said be did not
number of line-of-battle ships ; they must also coitoder the intend to interfere with these internal regulating, end ally
milit my means which both possessed. The hon. member's meant to deal with the means and powers of eggrenkm— '
mat had carried him a little too far when he talked of Cher- the navies of both countries. (Hear, hear.) If there was a
bourg Si a simple port of refuge, and spoke of the works fee against whom they might reasonably prepare, it was
proposed at Alderney as an insult and a menace to France. the 20 millions on the other side of the Atlantic' possessing
(Hear, hear.) The whole island of Alderney would only as they did a great commercial marine capable rat any time of
accommodate a garrison of about a hundred, and the har- being converted into a warlike armament. He (Mr. Roebuck)
boor would contain but a few steamers. The him. member saw no reason why an understandingcouldnot be arrived at as
might as well speak of the aggression of a sentry box against to the policy to he pursued by England and France in the
a fortified town. (Cheers and laughter.) Cherbourg was number of vessels each should keep afloat in the Mediterra-
a great naval arsenal ; the report which the hon. gentleman nean and Black Seas, as was arrived at by the good sense of
had referred to stated that the works there had been in the English and Americans' as to the number of vessels of
progress nearly i 0 years, and that between seven and eight war to be kept afloat in the Canadian lakes and the Ontario.
millions sterling had been expended on them. Its value (Hear, hear.) They only required that the noble toed
was represented as consisting in its being an advanced post should take these common-sense views into consideration,
within 60 miles of the English Neat, incapable of and address them to the people of France, who would not
being blockaded, and therefore in war a most important fail to acknowledge them. (Hear.) Why not say to
point of attack or aggression towards England. lie wished France—" We do not etc why we should go on inereas-
not to exagaerate the relative means of attack of France, ing our war establiehments ;we intend to decrease them; will
still lees to imply that the continuance of these or any other you do the same?" The resolution was not founded on fear;
works was to be considered by this country as an indica- it simply. desired peace. There was nothing of an abstract
hen of any hostile feeling on the part of k ranee. (Hear.) nature in the resolution. It simply requested of the noble
He utteriy disclaimed any. such belief. (Cheers.) He was lord to be the harbinger of peace, and, armed in the
esseineed that the great intercourse which had taken place majesty of peace, to offer to other nations all the benefits''
of late years between the people of the two countries had which civilisation and tranquillity could confer. (Cheers.)
dispelled many prejudices, and removed many foolish hoe- After a few words from Mr. I, Mal HART,
tile feelings, which bed long survived the causes that had Mr. M. GIBSON cordially agreed with the hon. member
given rise to them. (Hear, herr) It was one of the most for Sheffield in paying a tribute of approbation to the speech
gratifying circumstances of the times in which we lived to of the noble lord the Secretary for I oreign Affair. The
ere two great nation., close to each other, each gifted by hon. member for the West Riding had no reason to
nature with various qualities, entitling them to the esteem, consider that speech a hostile one. (Hear, hear.) On the
friendship, and admiration of each other, capable of ren- contrary, he was entitled to feel that its tone. and the
dering to each other the most important services, capable admissions it contained were very much in the direction of
also, if actuated by fatal paseimui, of inflicting on each the resolution. But if there was anything to complain of
other the greatest calamities—it was gratifying to see that in the speech of the noble lord, it was rather that of omit-
every day that passed, every month and year that elapsed, tine to give any approval of the precise object which the
brought those two countries into Inure general and friendly hon. member for the West Riding had in view, that pre-
contact, and that feelings of mutual friendship and esteem cise object being a reduction of armaments and then a
were rapidly !succeeding to those antiquated notions of reduction of taxation—a reduction of armaments brought
national antipathy of which, he trusted, very soon nothing about by means which would not affect the position
would remain except the record in the past history of the of this country, which would leave her in as good a
two countries. (Cheers.) But if a great and rich country position to repel attack as she was before, and would not
like this wished to maintain peace and friendship with a leave her to the necessity of depending upon what the
powerful state, it mist take care to be enabled to defend noble lord deprecated—namely, upon the forbearance of
itself. (hear, hear.) lie did nut ask the country to arm foreign countries, seeing that she offered great temptations
itself with the means of aggression. lie would not wish either to the ambition or avarice of other nations. Thc
that there should lie anything in our arrangements in proposition did not invite the house to depend on the for-
time of peace which should indicate an intention of ag- bearance of any country. It did not ask them to place the
greseion, or even appear to a Frenchman as affording the country in a position in which she would be unable to
means of aggression against France. England had no repel attack, but it merely asked the noble
feeling which would lead to such a course, and he should lord to act now in reference to the reduction
be the last man to wish that anything we did should be of the force precisely upon the lame principle
capable of that interpretation. On the other hand, it was on which he himself hail acted with reference to its in-
a duty we owed to ours-Ives, to those functions which Pro- crease, and when, France having increased her force, he
videitechaildestineel this country to perform,and to those who frilled upon the house to increase ours and supported an
were to succeed us—to place and keep this country in a address to the crown for that purpose. The mode adopted
position to be able to repel attack, if' by any unfortunate or by the noble lord for increasing the force was precisely the
unforeseeneircurnstmice such necessity should arise. Hishon one now adopted by the hon. member for the West Riding
friend (Mr. Cobden) hail naturally seen that his for decreasing it ; and therefore it could not be called an
proposal was open to the objection that England and France improper one. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Gibson) would
were not the only naval powers in theworld,and that either give no advice to his hon. friend as to whether he
power might urge in reply to such a proposal from the should or should not divide the house upon the
other, that there were other considerations hy which their motion ; but, if he divided, he should have his
respective arrangements must he guided. Reference cordial support. (Hear.) He thought the house ought
hail been made to a debate in the French Chem- to have rather more of a clear understanding that the noble
her in 1816, on an augmentation of their naval lord would practically undertake to do the things which
force, suggested, as the hon. gentleman contended, they were anxious should be accomplished. It was not
'by our augmentations • but the great disposable naval enough to make a speech showing the general advantages
force of England at that time consisted only of the two of peace and the dangers that might arise from the possi-
ships he bad specified. That debate, which it was his for- batty of war. lie hoped that as the noble lord had said he
tour to hear, had turned upon this ; the government pro- agreed in the end now proposed he would undertake to enter
posd 40 sail of the line as the permanent force, not all to on communication' with France with a view to a mutual
be in commission, but including launched and unlaunched ; reduction of armaments. He wished the noble lord could
and M. Thiers and those who opposed the government have told them that he had ever entered into such commu-
wanted to have 42. The honourable member (Mr. flimflams with France. (hear, hear.) A more absurd
Cohelen) had stated, as an illustration of what he statement could not have been made than that about the
should wish, that a convention hail been concluded breakwater at Cherbourg, for that so-called breakwater was
between this country and the United States for regu- a mere dyke.
toting the amount of force which each power should Lord PAL
maintain on the internal lakes of North America—a wise basins there.
and good arrangement, and which bad worked very advan- Mr. GIBSON had never heard any one offer a word in
tageouely so far. But there was a great and manifest dis- defence of our works at Alderney, where a sum of 600,0001.
tinction between inland lakes and the seas of the world— had been thrown into the sea. They were called
(hear. hear)—a distinction recognised in this case; defensive works! Defensive of what? Was the pier
for having made that arrangement as to inland defensive of the cows ? ("Hear, hear," and laughter.)
lakes, these two powers did not make it u to They had made these works for the reception of war
the seas of the world. For the same reason, steamers, in order that they might the more easily make an
England and France had no hope or expectation of coming aggression on France, and France viewed them in that
to any such arrangement with regard to their naval forces, light. (Hear.) He hoped the right hon. gentleman the
the amount of which was calculated on a great variety of First Lord of the Admiralty would give them a more defi-
circumstancee•, and though the relative force of the two nits assurance than had been expressed by the noble lord,
countries might be' a main consideration, it was by no means that communications would be commenced with France for
the only one in determining it. On entering into such a the purpose of procuring a mutual reduction of armaments.
acgotistion especially with the address from this house (hear.)
proposed, he should feel that it could not be dome with After a few words from Sir H. VTANIIT,
any practical result. He was ready to adopt the motion Mr. BROTIIERTON expressed his gratification at the
and the speech of the hon. member. as the expression of an sentiments expressed by the noble lord, and would reeom-
influential member, responded to, he should hope—if the mend his hon. friend not to press the house to a division
hon. member acquiesced in the arrangement—by the una- as he thought the discussion would produce greater effeci
nimous feeling of the whole House of Commons, as the ex- in Europe if there were no appearance of division in the
premien of a hope that the relations between France and house. (Hear.)
Englandwould be—nay, must be (if common sense actuated Mr. HUMS said it was desirable that the house should
those who had the management of affairs on both sides), as be unanimous on the present occasion. He understood
far as human foresight could go, friendly towards each from the noble lord that he approved of the motion
other; that those mutual suspicions and reciprocal jea- of his honourable friend, and, if so, he thought
(sales which had from time to time misled the cal- that the noble lord should accept the motion.
eulations of both countries, would disappear ; and Ile entreated the noble lord to reconsider his decision.
that mutual confidence would take the place of Sir H. Inglis, Mr. Clench, and Mr. Lovcdeo, having
reciprocal distrust. (hear, hear.) His hon. friend had a spoken,
little exaggerated the want of information which either Mr. COBDEN consented to withdraw his resolution,
party possessed as to the arrangements of the other. It trusting that the discussion it had elicited might produce
was not necessary to send out the spies he had spoken of ; a good effect, and that the foreign secretary would carry
for, in regard to our nasal arrangements, nothing more was out in practice the sentiments he hadexpressed in his speech.
necessary than to read the debates in that house, or look at Lord PALMERSTON guarded against future Willis*
the estimate's, to know how matters stood ; and there was ception by repeating the terms in which he Red given his
no greater secresy with regard to the naval slain of France. partial concurrence in the proposition of the hemounie
He accepted with pleasure the speech and proposal of member. lie entirely concurred with the prineiple and
the hon. member provided it had not been preen ied n a object of the honourable member's motion, * kWh 11111 con-
way which he thought would very much defeat its object. cetved to be not only the maintenance of pales with
He accepted it with pleasure, as the right hand of fellow- France, but the inspiring between the two powers and the
ship tendered by this country to France—(cheers)—and two governments those principles of matted senildneee
he agreed in thinking that there could not have been a which would put an end to jealousies. He eMosted as the
more appropriate time than the
_present for a deraonstration motion because he believed it wits act the hest amass of
of this kind. (Hear, hear.) We had now converted this arriving at the result. He begged not to le unimmeed
country into a temple of peace for the whole world. as undertaking that the government would enter inn me.-
(Cheers.) We had invited the natives of every civilised dation. They would consider themselves perfeedy trio le
land on the face of the earth to come here, not to a mere use their own discretion according to circumstaasee ; hat
rivalship in strength. or brute force, or the the object at which they would aim would be that whisk
arts of human destruction ; but to compare the he had stated to be their guiding principle. (Hear, hear.)
ress which each nation had made in those The motion was then withdrawn.
arts which constituted the happiassi and the ors- THE BIBLE MONOPOLY.
meet of the human race. (Cheers.) It was certainly a Mr. HUME moved an address to thecrown, to cancel the
pond year for the country—proud in seerypossiblereepect, patent now granted to the Queen's printers, conferring a mo-
p regarded a greet and mighty nation. (Hear, hear.) And nopoly of printing Bibles and Prayer-books in Ragland and
no less was it a satisfaction to see the confidence reposed in Ireland. In Scotland the monopoly of the printing°, theßible
this country by those who brought themselves and their was abolished in 1839, and the fears then expressed that the
goods to this great and mighty Exhibition. (Hear, hear.) text would be corrupts/la consequence had proved ground-
It was no less a source of honest pride to us to know that Ins. It hadheen prolli tO the COMlllattet up stairs thet in an
nothing had more struck the strangers who had done us the edition at the Bible plotted by this Queen's printer, noise
honour of visiting us, than the spirit of order which they than 12,00 snore bed moaned. The monopoly thrashing
had observed to pervade every rank of society in this did not ammo dr mouth Olathe of the scriptures. An
country—(hear, hear)—the wonder they had expressed at Americas bed hogs ossmin- I blithe committee, whose ed-
ucing the respect for the laws, which was the spontaneous dence Warne* to POP* eget Ilf the monopoly ware dens
feeling from the highest to the lowest in this land, arising away within, gehrommhibomillatilleheepmedinhigtho
from the comparative excellence of those laws (he did not textwonld net be logs assusalely Field. The ,in
mean to say they were perfect, any move than any other held, engendered earelesineis, and was net. se
human institution), which secured to every man, from the conducive to correct printing as • fair and opth
highest to the lowest, the full enjoyment of the honest The motion was seconded by Mr. COWL.‘, and ripper*
fruits of his industry, and which protected him against by Sir G. GRIST, who observed that the patents in quashes
opm, ssion from above or insult from below. (Hear, could not be revoked except by an enact of parliament.
hem.) He was glad the hon. member had takes advents", Sir R. INGLIS also opposed the motinn.
I this general meeting of the world lin to peoclim bit. HUME would not divide the home at that herft.
311.4 Pa in parliament those principles duniversal All he could say was—let him not hear any more of brie

said that hi allusion was to the

Majesty's government being arsine's of ' instruc-
tion among the people. Rs would v next session, if
he lived, bring in a bill to enforce reform.
The resolution was then negatived by consent.
Tim Lodging-bosses Bill was postponed to Friday.
The Survey of Great Britain Bill was read a third time.
The Court of Chaaerrr (Ireland) Regulation Act Amend-
ment Bill Ina read a third time.
The remaining business having been disposed of, the
house adjourned at a quarter to one o'clock.

PAIR-S.—Sir A. Brooke paired off on Monday against the
grant for Maynooth College repairs with Sir R. Howard in
favour; Mr. Plowden against, with Mr. Mackinnon for;
Mr. Monts against with Dr. Power for ; Mr. W. H. Hamil-
ton against with Sir D. Norreys for; Col. Chatterton paired
off on Monday with Col. Estcourt for the night. Lord A.
Lennox paired, in favour of Mr. Spooner 's motion, on
Maynooth, with /Ir. Smythe, against ,• Mr.Ooddard paired,
against the grant to Maynooth, with Mr. E. lieneage, for ;
the lion. E. S. Hassell paired in favour of the grant for
Maynooth, with the Hon. Colonel Forester against.

TO the INDEPENDENT ELECTORS of 6,1
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