The Express.
London, England, 1847-06-29 00:00:00

this kind, be would soon remove from the government the
confidence of the monied interest in this country. The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer ought to be satisfied with having
added 8,000,0001. to the permanent debt of this country, and
with having, since his coming into office, reduced the balance
in the exchequer from 9,000,0001. to 5,000,0001. Re would
misc
hief already.lea Re did
not understand why the government should d this
money for the purposes of this particular line. There may
have been some reason for doing so if this were •
onlinehieh the
wheel
was not far advanced in its coustruction, and w
proprietors could not borrow money for want of sufficient
lecurity. This was a line, however, which was half con-
' strutted, and 50 per cent. on the money necessary for its
oompletioa was paid in. The present position of the money
market did not warrant such a precieding. (Hear,
hear.) If the right honourable taro-,et the Chancellor
of the Exchequer went on in that way he would, in the
course of two years, bring the country to that state of
, financial difficulty to which the Whigs had reduced it when
'before in office. Believing the hill to be wrong in principlelae
,
he thought that be would act most wisely by giving it all t
opposition in his purer.
Lord J RUSeELL—I stated on a former occasion the
reason why I thought that the proposal of her Majesty's
government should be adopted by the house, and why I
thought it was net at variance with any acknowledged prin-
ciple adopted by the legislature on former occasions. The
hon, hart who has commenced this debate stated, I
admit a populer bat I think a very superficial objection to
the plan—namely, that the house bad dissented from tampion
of the noble lure the member for Lytin, which he propose's&
the commencement of this session. le opposing that plan
there were two grounds chiefly relied on why the home
should reject it the oho was that having before us a great
prospect of immense expenditure, and being uncertain how
far it may be required, and anticipating the state of the
money market when it should be required, we thohught it im
prudent in the thee state of affairs to pledge the ouse to a
plan by which 16,000,0001. would require to be taken by way
of loan from the exchequer of this country. Such was the
main, and I thought derisive, objection against adopting it
then. Another wise that that plan was not efficient for the
immediate purpose which we had in view—namely, that of
affording food to the destitute millions in Ireland who had
lost their usual article of subsistence. I think that
these two grounds were perfectly sound. I thought,
'end I think still, that railway employment is not
the best kind Gl employment by which to afford
immediate relief to the number of poor in Ireland, many of
them infirm and helpless, who are left without their original
means of subsistence. But in opposing the noble lord at the
end of that debate, I stated expressly that I thought that the
object to which he proeosed to apply the putilic
mose
of ally w
kinds
had been advanced, encouraged, and brought to perfection
by advances of public money, and among them railways
were to hi considered as belonging to the mere uiefel class.
Such was my statement when opposing the noble lord. I
contend, therefore, that there was nothing in the arguments
which were used by her Majesty's government, there was
nothing in the decision of this house on the very large plan pro-
posed by the noble lord—and to thecomprehenfivenessof the
plan and the ability with which it we+ brought forward I at
the same time did justice—there was nothing in that decision to
preclude the house for ever from advancing public money for
the promotion of railroads in Ireland. (Omen.) The full
extent of the hon. baronet's objection to thin plan I think to
be this—that because the noble lord's (Lord 0 Bentinck's)
plan was rejected, they should never sanction the advance of
public money to railroads in Ireland. Could there be a more
violent conclusion, or one MOTS at variance with the 1.001/11-
tomel proceeding, of government. We are aware, and the
right hon. gentleman the late Chanceilor of the Exchequer
alluded to it on a former debate, that it is the custom every
year, out of the balance of the public money, to advance
some to the promotion of useful works, which private indi-
viduals would not be likely to undertake, in order
that the public money should be usefully expended.
It is a misapprehension of this plan to suppose that we pro-
pose to advance money at 31 per mut interest. The rate
of interest is 5 per cent., the usual rate asked for on money
advanced for works of this description. I therefore con-
clude that so far from being at variance, d
ais in perfect ac-
cordance with the general principle sanoned by govern-
ment. a principle found le work beneficially fur the public.
But I must admit that we are going beyon the usual
amount of advances for these purpose, and that, in fact, and
not the question which the hos. baronet the member for
Southwark put to the house, Lithe only question on which we
are at iwue. The question is —shall we or shall we not adopt
a plan which requires larger advances than the Exchequer
Loan commissioners could advance if they had only the usual
sum which would naturally come into their hands ? When
a demand of this nature is made, it iv necessary, to
make out a case of exception, and so far from my having
any difficulty in talking out a case of exception, I will
only fatigue the ouse if I go into the abundant proofs
which the present state of Irelend affords why her case
should not be subjected to any of those normal rules by
which, in ordinary cases, we might be guided. The lion.
baronet the member for Southwark talks of works, which
be says should be undertaken in England. Now wail there
anything in the present state of England which resembled
the condition of Ireland ? We must look to Ireland as
having been brought to Ler present state by a long course of
bad legislature and misgovernment; as a country containing
people to the amount of millions living inthe most wretched
habitations, and .n the lowest and cheapest description of
fool, and without those necessaries of life which are usually
enjoyed by the English labourers. I must confess that,
looking back to history, and beholding the state of other
countries, I believe the legislature and government of a
country have an influence on the condition of its people, not
for some ten or twenty years, but for centuries. If I look
to the happy condition of the people of Tuscany, I find that
there remain traces of her vigilant and vigorous republican
govrnment ; when I look to Flanders, I also find proofs of
thee advantages bestowed_on the people of that country by
the government of Burgundy ; and when I look to the terri-
tory of Valencia I see traces of the industry and cultivation
encouraged by the governors of that province.. In every
part of Europe that I have traversed I see that the conditioe
of the peoples influenced, not solely by the government of
the moment, but by the condition in which they have been
placed by governments and rulers long ago. If we go
back for acentury and see what the legislature has done C.
Ireland—when we find that the great majority of the people
were debarred from all offices in the state, from all distinction
at the hag, and all other professions to which Went could
aspire—from the actual enjoyment of their estates, if
some relation turned out villain enough to take
possession—l see no wonder in our now finding
millions of her people living in the lowest condition of hu-
man life, and thrown into utter ruin by the failure of a
single crop. (Cheers.) It wouel be a narrow, unjust, and
unfair view of our duty to Ireland, if' we were to look
merely to what we h
ung done for the last ten or twenty
years, or since the n, and then lay down the geaeral
principle of the hon. baronet the member for Southwark,
who says " Why do not the Irish do as the English ? Leave
them entirely to their own resources ; do not give them any
help by your legislature; and as the English do well, so will
they." If Ireland had been governed so England has been,
I do not doubt that now the ',jib would be able to do well;
but it was not a legislative enactment, an act of tardy justice
suohas that passed in 1829, that could in a few years
put the Irish people in a position to work out their own
prosperity; and attain anythieg like that state of comfort
and well-being in which we have the happiness to tee the
English people generally placed. In Ireland we have misery,
and as a consequence, insecurity and we have ;memo of
capital afraid to settle in Ireland on account of it. That
arises from crime, but that crime arises from general causes,
with which it is our business to deal, and nut merely to
find fault with the outrages, and attribute them to any in-
docile or violent disposition on the part of the people. Here
is abundant reason why we should de something more than
trust merely to general principles of legislation, why we
should not be setislied with doing that which this house has
freely done—namely, giving millions from other portions of
the empire in order to relieve the pressing distress of Ire-
land. There exists, at present, a reasonable fear that a
great portion of the potato crop may perish in the present
year. The people haveexerted themselves lately with great in-
dustry to sow pgrt of the ground which had hitherto produced
potatoes with uifferent kends of corn, and with turnips, so
that a larger amount of green crops than usual was likely to
be produced. But it is calculated that it would take the
produce of three acres of corn to supply the lose of one acre
of potatoes. We cannot then look forward to the probable
state of Ireland for the next five or six years without con •
aiderable apprehension that there will be extreme suffering.
We have already imposed. considerable burthena on the
landlords of Ireland, believing that they were in the first
instance responsible for the condition of Ireland; but, look-
ing to what is to be the condition of Ireland, we ought to
endeavour, by every means in our power, to mist in
rescuing the people of Ireland tem their provost Mara, and
enabliag them, by tome aimless el ewe, is work sue that
prosperity which they suet telthestsly eastedy kotem
mental in procuring for theologies& With reglad to this
measure, I will ask, if third. anything chimerical in
the nature of the proposition ? IleOle ears ago th_ar:rn-
meat of the day *predated • of
Mr. Drummond, Sir J. B tee =Mr.
R. Griffith', to consider the et vogrools la' Ireland.
The noble lord here promoted to teed an estrus from an
elaborate report drawn up by that oemodesion, romeamend-
ing moat strongly the formation of a railroad from Dublin to
Cork as one of the utmost importance; and pointing
out the moral influence which the construction of
railroads would have on the people of Ireland, sod
its immense advantages to both countries. In es-
sidering this matter he (Lord J. Russell) thought that
they were taking a step in the right direction towards the
permanent improvement of Ireland. In furnace parts of the
session, by propositions which the government had made,
they asked the-house to assist in alleviating the existing dis-
tress ; what they would have to consider in future puha-
merits would be how to raise Ireland from the condition in
which she was placed by bad legislation and misgovern-
ment, and place her in a p-aition to prosper of herself, and
to stand by England, no matter what dangers might
threaten. The hon. member for Coventry made a most ex-
traordinary objection to this loan, saying that this railroad
Ms alrady half finished. If they had uked for motley to I
be adv c
anted to a line which had not as yet been begun, his
objection might hold good, but in the present ease it was a'
ground on which they should lend the sum required to finish_'
it. The argument of the hon. baronet the member for
Southwark was perverted when he said that his right hotel
friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had raised
8.000,0001. for a purpose fur which it was not all I
required, and that he thought it was expedieut to I
expend the entire of it in seine way or other.
Tl,e question wax, how they should expend the 000,0001. ;
anti his right hon. friend said he should and no difficulty I
shout it. His right hon. friend's argument was not that
bemuse he had got 800,0001. he mint spend ft, bet "here
'IA a useful purple to Welele it can too applied." .h .1 ha
(Lord J. Russell)) thought it could be shown that Me object
Medi was a me. The has. geodes= who spoke

made lord with reference to the mortality which had taken
plate among Irish emigrants was but too true. The Geyer-
nor-General Memel& had addremed• despatch to the noble
lord at the head of the coloaial department, bringing the
matter under the notice of the government ; and Earl Grey
had replied to the effect that he was extremely concerned to
receive such lamentable accounts of the state ot the emigrents
on their arrival iia Camila and desiring the goeernormene-
ral to appoint additional medical officers to mitigate their
sufferinge, and to provide additional eccommodation fir
heir receptinn, even though the expenee thoud respect the
mount which,
parliament had voted. In this every-
hing that was possible had been done. With regard to the
iatetnent of the noble lord es to the want of
commul dick on board the 'hits, and as to the badness of
the water, he (Mr. Hawes) had not received any toutshe
rather doubted whether the disease was traceable y
such causes. On the contrary, it rather seemed that the
at the
emigrepts who had died were suffering from typhus
time of their embarkation, which the emigration agents had
no noaer by lase to prevent.
Lord T. 11 AN NEILS —Ant I
ill to
be understn
and
the that
gon thi
wides
the water no further steps w take by overnt
fur the prevention of • recurrence of these calamities ?
Mr. HAWES ereula not undertake to say that
wculd be done. The law gave than WO power do
do
anything more than hod been done. The government ld.
however, direct the emigration agents to exercise additional
prom itions.
in answer to a question pot by Mr. D. Russ,
Mr. HAWES sud that the agents hail not sanctioned the
embarkation of more emigrants on booed those sh no
doubt
than
the regulations permitted • at the same time, o
'
many had eandestiaely, or by the connivance of the crew.,
got on board.
PUBLIC CHARITIES.
Mr. HUME seta that last year he had introduced a bill on
the aubjiet of public charittes, the object of which was to
secure regular accounts of their receipts and disbursements.
That bill he had withdrawn on the unierstanding that the
govertment would introduce a better and more compre-
hensive nuepure. lie hat understood that
hart bill the L ad
on Chathen-
cellor had stated that he bad prepared • s
"abject, and he (Mr. Hume) wished to know from the right
hon. baronet at the head of the Home Deportment whether
such a hid would so brought for card during the pre mat
session ?
Sir 0. GREY replied that a bill on the subject had been
prepared by Ili. noble and teemed friend the Lord Chancel-
-1 or,, but he woo not able to sty whether it hal been intro-
duced in the other house of parliament. He would, however,
make inquiries into the matter.
BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY BILL.
Mr. If observed that a bill making alteration in the
laws relatate to bankruptcy and insolvency, had been sent
down from the ether house. The bit went to ab Aisle the
Court of Review, and to woke other changes, and he wished
to know whether the government intended to carry the bill
through thin session ? If so, there was a report of a select
committee of the House of Lord' on the subject, which
might to be laid upon the table before the bill was pro-
ceeded with.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL mid Ile proposed to read
the bill a first time tomighe, and to take the discuesion upon
it on the second reading. lie was not aware of the report
to which the hon. member for 'Meares. referred.
Mr. HUME said that the report to which ho alluded
stated that nothing in the way of leeielation ought to pass,
until the whole question of the bankruptcy and insolvency
leers was brought under the consideration of the legislature.
UNION MEDICAL OFFICERS.
Mr. FERRAN D gave notice of his intention to-morrow
to put • question to the right hon. baronet the Home Secre-
tary, as to whether the statement made the other night, by
the hon. awl learned member for Bath, to the effect that
the medical officers of unions had the means of recovering
the costs of the drugs and medicines distributed by them in
the unions in which they acted, was correct
Mr. ROEBUCK said that was not the statement he had
mode. Ho hoped the house would excuse him if he now
offered an explanation. The statement he had made was,
that, a ea:tract being made with a medical practitioner to
supply skill and medicine, if any patient was allowed to die
for want of medicine which could 'eve him, the case would
be very near one of manslaugter. But he hail further
stated that the megistrates anli
the boards of guardians
were empowered by law to order extraerdinary supplies of
medieiae an antes of em 'ranger, and those extr toed inary sup-
plies must be paid for by the union, in addition to the
contract.
CORN IMPORTATION RETURNS.
Lod G. BENTINCK observed that a return hail to-day
been fureishal to hon. members stating that 1:18 foreign
ship! had brought over corn to this country during the sou-
pspoon of the navigation laws, an I that the quantity so
brought amounted to half a million quarters. Now, he
(Lord G. Bentinck) understood that no suck number of ships
had availed themselves of the suspension of the navigetiou
laws, and that no such quantity of corn had been so
im-
'Ported into this country. He believed that 258,000 quarters
of maize had been imported into Ireland by virtue of this
suspension, but he hippene I to know that there had only
arrived at Linen ol ells vessel from New Orleans, and only
three from New York. It was clear that the return was
incorrect, and hid been made ep en miscalculations. Was
that so?
The Cll AN r ELT.Oft of the EXCHEQUER slit! that as
hie noble friend hal not given hi n notice of his intention to
ask the question, he hid not afforded him an opportunity of
making enquiries oa the subject from the cernmissienera of
customs. Hence be was not able to give an answer to his
noble friend's qution. To-rannow he would apply to the
board of customs to know whether they had male any
mistake.
BOARD OF TRASE.-1111. MACGREGOR.
Mr.T. BUNCOMBE said he observed from the pothlic prints
that the permanent Secretory of the B iard of Trade had
addressed the consituency of Ulaegow, soliciting their suf-
frages, and stating that he hal xo reason to believe that his
election as their representative would prevent hint holding
his offiee under tee present administration. lie (Mr. T.
Bancembe) wished to ask the noble lord at the bead of the
government whether it was legal for the permanent Secre-
tary to the Beard of Treie to hold th .t office together with
i seat in the H ease of Commons, and whether in the event
of Mr. Macgregor being returned for the city of Glesgow he
Would be continued in the Ohm he now held ? Ile ( sir. T.
Drinenmee) thought that as already the President and Vice-
President of the Board of Trade had seats in parliament, the
addition of one of the permanent secretaries was an unneces-
sary increcerof ministers) political influence.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he mull not answer the question
sato the legality of the Secretary to tke Boned of Trade hal-
los' a seat in Tomei emeat. That must depend upon the con-
enaction of several an of parliament. He load not thouaht
it necessary to consider the question of legality, because
when Mr. Maegregnr had informed hi nof his intention to
!eels a seat in the next parliament, he hal else stated that
in the event of his being elected, it was not his intention to
hold the office he now filled. He (Lord J. Russell) quite
agreed that the President and Vix•president of the Board of
Trade were quite sufficient to represent that department in
parliament; and, therefore, he did not think that either of
the secretaries ought to have a seat in parliament holding
that office.
THE WELLINGTON TESTIMONIAL.
Lord G. BENTINCK inquired at what hour the vote for
the erection of a new pedestal far the Wellington statue
would crime on ? He hoped it would not be taken until the
oorreammdence promised b the noble lord at the head of
the Woods and Forests woo aid upon the table.
lewd J. RUSSELL—It has been laid upon the table, but
is not yet printed.
Lord G. BENTINCK hoped that, under such eircum-
*boom the vote would not be brought forward to-night.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the vote would not be token until
(he correspondence was in the hands of hen. members.
RAILWAYS (IRELAND) No. 2 BILL.
. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the
!Second mediae of the Railways (Ireland) No. 2 Bill.
Sir W. MOLES WORTH said he was sorry to find it
*as the intention of her Majesty's ministers to persevere
ielth this bill. He bad hoped it would have been with-
Owen, ter he could not vote fur it with any consistency,
Urging opposed a similar measure introduced at en early
period of the session by the noble lord the member for Lynn
(Lord G. Bentieck). To this measure he entertained pre-
cieely the some objections as he had expressed against the
proposition of the noble lord. Between the two measures
he could net discover the least difference in principle, and
he recommended tine. members to peruse the convincing
speech of the right hon. baronet the member for Tamenorth
against the noble lord's proposition, before they gave their
sanction to the bill now before the keine. The object of
this bill was to lend money, at less that' the market price,
to sundry railways la Ireland • and who would be the
gathers ? That question had been answered by the right
hon. baronet the Chancellor of the Exchr quer on a former
occasion, when he stated that the gainers would be first the
mortgagees of Irish property, next the shareholders, and
thirdly the landowners through whose property the rail-
way was to paw. On these grounds the government
had discarded the bill of the noble lord the mem-
ber for Lynn, which they described as a measure
for the relief of destitute shareholders and mortgagees.
There were sufferers in all parts of England in consequence
of the measures which were adopted for the relief of the dis-
tress in letlend. If the government were determined to
lend money to employ labour, and to raise the wages of
labour, they could do so much more advantageously by lend-
lint it to the millowners, by which means othen than the
able-bodied would be benefited - and tkey would not have
worse security than that afforded by the Irish share-
holders. Every branch of industry to which the govern-
ment refused assistance meta be injured by the assistance
given to any one branch: they should assist all or none;
and it was therefore that he opposed the principle of this
bill. It may he said that there was a 'epeeist reason besides
the principle of the bill for which they should pass it. The
Chancellor of the Exceequer stated, as a special reason, that
arum of eight millions sterling had been raised for certain
purposes ; that they did not require the end ire of that sum •
that there remained a surplus of 620,000 L ; and be, there-
fore, proposed that it should he lent for the employment of
Irish lahenrers. The tight hon. baronet had asked for a
certain sum Of money, and he felt bound to spend it in some
way or other, good or bad. One of his principal grounds
for preseirm this measure was that ns additional loan would
be required. Was that a sufficient reason ? Every farthing
of public money belly expended formed an additional bur-
then to the po vele of this country ; and it were better to ye-
two this surplus to the pockets of the people, and there allow
It to fructify, rather than give it us the Intel: landholders and
thareholden., to the detriment of the people of that country,
by eceenrama.g them in their dependence on this country
for insistent. in cane of emergency. Ha
atoes to the bill brought in by the .711. lord (Lord
G. Beotierk), and as the Mae Aft • werepp
appli-
cable to this manure, he would move as an 'Let amendment t
the bill be read that day three months.
iLLIAMS supposed roue =ern:relent of the
buonet, and mid that if the right hon. baronet the
ClMMegiler of the izolinair misted in poring nunanzes of

~~
~~

• - .
. I rCi\i .-1;),41T
EXPRESS, TULTDAY -.ra"9"4""

JUNE 29, ISO.

yr,

, -
and had mid that the balance In 13•11 imbellest la pounds, daings, and .raere, bat in Imam era— ,
...use observations on the tiles lif tab :se no Monitor the reosey—expeorled. . the retain was
iyg ant
-...
...ad been reduced hem 9,000,0001. to s,oooseeqi i whereas, kear)—md the people
ea It_ ntand _would. I'd_v* be". _...
in April, 1846, the &menet was 6,576,0001. ; saii in April, sant if their fellow-nobjlaat prialtusbeLosatinigetejite
destitute,i ge-
-1847, 5,03,0001., making 1,048,0001. less balance in the Yawns% had all along felt . w .
the
latter then in the precious year. at no Ulla, ilOeptiag ti was their dual.. also.
derstood his amble friend (Lord J.
wwPmorkvide
s. Thei
noblefstalordre, parry
10.
the kaelne.amete moubteortfobrisCorltutrylatt, ancouragiag to active _
hat be had' (riven a pledge
oil! teohenligredeartincaglihameitygneigiwhiTh. Bootjack). had refute
ba4 befallen Ireland. (Rear, hear.) It was impoesitile to Remelt)
1 ' te to those under
1,
smaimiuyt sucochuaidfeb.et,lnidiedietonsuuppoif appose thehathdatnot
ocfiut:derts
(ofieuthe, of
ere ishetaienmgce
ptoguleerstdheiirn:lstriets'hi
eelaned,!:erdsete, without
evea reference to
leer.) He had stated bis mesons why he thought the was
4/onside:anon no
thearch pledge
gbeadembeeeene*acttpuealelfveegriedvene.eprAes.
amid agree to the proposed measure, and he thought it wes regarded the •
ch . .
account of the patronage which
pert of a policy which the house ought to adopt; and amen- t
hey weeks to rat vr y ,
ed showed that the tronage was being used to
baring the lone misgovernment of Ireland, they would be they unwed by thewforser, forgoer, he would remark, that the 'c-
eding with injustice to that country if they did not hereafter counts town , .._ pa
.th
h.
the prejudice of the political party wi which the governs
pursue such a policy.
noble lord, that this wax part of a general scheme for in fact, all vested
had
the win i e
Mr. ROEBUCK was alarmed at the last expression of the meat were connected. (Hear,
.bevir.),, Twhheo.pattrionte
n selected°wnithOut reference to their
the faunsa government of Ireland. The measure of the go-
propaitiehonoenabld..efe lord
?.ol f h b:al:
pocatedliticeth." Ht heeybehlideved that this measure
n would
e ebef
I:e useful
11
teherne
ez thewe to the other msasures or
'tattend-
go ernment
was
Lynn ; ibveutinthr6sie noitbilelotbrdatatofththe
bad said distinctly that his
for relief of Irelend—and then he went hack, for cen- 1 tog
• what had fallen from the hon. and learned member for
1 ansudla, pirovided the money were well expended notesr
tanks, described the misrule of England, and called Oa Bath, he thoug tthe people of England h
the house to adopt this measure as part of a general scheme the outlay.
Ir LEFROY supported the measure, but expressed his
for doing justice to Ireland. This, he supposed, w•• 11 .
as lads: of the pitiful amount of justice to bo one to that regret that .
a lareer grant had not been proposed. It was
the potato crop • the rapid change
cataract' for all the oppression and wrongs which had been unwise to speculate uponsua • and 'no safe calculation
hafted on her. It was not, however, the making of Irish last year took every one by p,
railway., hat the removal of the Irish church, which would i could be formed as to the crop about be h d
to gat ere •
'IL was received with some laughter, and berth':
render that justice which the country required. The noble I Mr. SHE. 'suit,
with
lord had truly said that the 600,0001. was not to be lent to Ism not ent y 'rel unconnected, I
d'Wentern Railway, which passes in chew ma-
ths!, starving people of 'relent, and he (Hr. Roebuck), Southern. an
hi h lin the county Tipperary,
therefore concluded that English capital had no right to he ninety to property w c pewees.
wasted on such au idle project as that before the house. He but I shall, lam sure, be believed by the house when I sal
believed the potato crop would be a most unhappy failure that lam far less influenced en
maythish°c„celfsrioomn abiiseanttainalny
this year ; all the spring crops, be also understood, would the
eemidetetteet which.
of therefrom
• t benefits which
be under the average, and no relief could be expected from the thorough persuasion I have e. as
to my country by the adoption of the measure in
America. What, then, was to justify such an outlay of must accrue
ha t . _
ttist. e-
money, when it might be necessary to supply the people which the government ve, omy finrid, so _ 15" Pe
with rood ? If the railways to be assisted were so good and see:red. (Hear, hear.) I think, sir, itie scarcely necewaryd
so profitable, why could they not get the money they wanted to sugest how much we should be benefited by Cork an
Limerickand Belfast, li ifast and Dublin, being
elsewhere ? It was well known they could not ; and the Limerick, 1...
noble lord proposed to take 600,0001. out of the brought together by one chain of internal commuuicetion.
themember for Bath admits that the benefits
pocket' of the English people, and lend it to these Even . hon. .
railway companies. asW it just—was it consistent with corn- are fuidnputa ,
ble whilst he complain, as I under.
mon se ? (Hear, bear.) Would the noble lord make stand, of the " rapacity"—that was his word—with which
property and life secure in Ireland —for which purpose only those
thatlsenetits are sought. That hoes. member says, as lam
h liberal Ireland
knew that told, you ought not to etobefore you
the capital of the country ought to be applied ? He
han object was near the noble lord heart (hear, hear); are just ter Eierland. I think it perfectly demonstrable that
but before he had effected it, he was putting his hand into such liberality and such justice would be perfectly comps-
the pockets of the people
England, and taking their hard. tible. But, before I prove it, let me observe that, in my
earned money to carry out objects nhich would not feed the mind, there perpetual distinctions are greatly to be depre-
hungry, or make property andeife more safe. He entreated rated. (Hear, bear.) If the apologue of Menetnieus Agrippa
him not to yield to the rapacity of persons on the other side is to hold good, and the different members
the different
body ar
of the Channel for advancing the money of the people of this not to conspire against the belly, surely th • mem-
not to conspire against the
country in n. system of Irish speculation. There was some- hers of the same body ought m-
thing very peculiar about the railway which had been se- without
selves ? (Cheers.) But I can show you, I think,
are kiss •'
laced to which he would not more particularly allude. The much difficulty, that the interests of both nations ,
noble lord said the line was almost completed— tilled. Those who say that the interests and the COMMA I
a very good reason far not touching it. (Hear, hear.) of En laud are sacrificed to Ireland, should bear he
Would the noble lord or the hoe. member for Lincoln (Mr. mind that Ireland affords to the manufactures of
Collett), who advocated the measure so strenuously, lend Cause the largest, the safest, and the
this country the best, .
__ ~
from _
) lie believed not. nearest, market. In the year. 182- , the n -
their own money for such a purpose • _ ) experts._
in value to upwards of seven mat
He hoped the house would reconsider the resolution which lend to Ireland amounted
relish i
they had come to on this subject_ A government was iin- lions ; and though the house, I know, does not lung
potent, when it began to employ the capital of the people statistical
thedetails,*iet oil
of perhaps
_r permiteetoquotete
_rive
, for purposes beyond the security of life and property ; and Pmt from •ik
and
the. Mr. Porter, which will p ben.
the moment it became a money lender, it became also a make both parliament
struction of these railways the interests of Ireland are nut
money loser. (Hear, hear.)
Lord G. BENTINCR. said the last sentence in the speech alone concerned. (Hear.) Mr. Porter, in his chapter,
of the noble lord the First Lord of the Treasury, that this headed - Trade between Great Britain and Ireland," tells
was bat the first step in a scheme tor the future government us that the value of the produce and merchandise that have
of Ireland, had given him the greatest satisfaction. (Hear, been the objects of trade between Great Britain and Ireland
is follows •
hear.) Far from hieing by the transaction, the government le various years onc
Impascs e the union
Into
Ireland
I. .
Great
Britain.
would clear 10,0001. a year by it. As to his own scheme, he heelC 3,270.330
did nut propose to get any money on the credit of the lett 5,3113,US
English government ; he only wanted to secure the return 1523 7,0 18,M6
of the money, which might have been advanced. If be was We have no return since the year 182-5, the commercial la.
now din
the to move that other railways in Ireland should tercourso n
ee we Great Britain and Ireland having, at Ow
share in the loan, he should think it needless to press such betty of that year, been assimilated by law tothe coasting trate
a proposition, after the noble lord's asaurance that when such een the different ports of England ; but, at Mr. Porter
railways had put these
in a position equivalent to that °beery.", the traffic must have very greatly increased ; for,
in which the Great Southern and Western B. eilway stood, although there are no returns
turn under the
number of ships head I have abovd
e
similar advanoss would be made to them. (Hear. hear.) quoted, yet we have a re of the aci
Twenty-seven miles of the Great Midland aid Western their tonnage which have sailed from Great Britain to Ire-
Railway Company had bean opened that day, and assuming lend each year from 1825 to 1844, and we find, as Mr. Poe-
the profit to be 6001. a week (the Great Southern and ter remark., that '. if we compare the amount of tonnage
Western making 1,6001. a week), that would give a clear employed in 1801 with that of 1844 we shall discover that it
income of 50,0001. a year, which, in addition to 15,0001. bears the proportion of 100 to 305, showing an increase of no j
a year for the tense( the canal, was offered to the goverement leas than 205 per cent." (Hear, hear.) Therefore, sir l
,
as security for a loon of 130,0001. The neblelord then alluded therecan be little doubt that I shall stand free from all
to some oithe object ems which had been urged against his Irish charge of exaggeration, if I assort that the amount of experts 1
railway scheme by the present government, since which it from England to Ireland is not, at the present
appeared her Majesty's ministers had grown much wiser. time, of less value than 10,000,0001. per annum.
He wee now reedy to prove to the people of this country that It is clear, then, that whatever measures we adopt to deve-
the proposal of the governmeut, so far from feeding a seme lop tho resources of Ireland—the cultivation of her soil—
to tax the people of England for the purpose of the the reclaiming other morass and mountain land —miring the
rapacity of Irish speculators was a measure which would standard of comfort and producing weal amelioration among
keep the Irish labourers at home instead of allowing them her people—whatever we do, I say, to increase the prosperity
to come into competition with those of England ; and, of Ireland, must be
lt ncillary to the prosnerity of England
moreover, that the money was amply secured and would be also. (Cheers.) is therefore a mistake to speak of the
repaid with a large amount of iuterest. The noble lord here interests of the two countr I
i know that es as oppose
ered andare likely
toy be
e
went minutely into the merits of the Great Midland and brought into collision. th
Western, and the Waterford and Limerick hallways, for the many actuated by great generosity, but there are others who
purpose of showing that they had an equal claim on the ought to bear in mind that they are not dealing with a mere
government aid with those to which assistance was proposed provincial locality. A war of sir months, ?cool', ct, would
by the measure before the house to be given, and as the for- eon you more than public improvements for nix years ; and
suer was already opened, and the latter would be on the Ist if in the cause of glory you would make great sacrifices,
of August, he hoped the government would redeem the surely is the cause of mercy you will not fail to be actuated
pledge they had that night given to assist railways in by humanity and generosity, (Hear, hear.) I know, sire
such a condition. As to the prediction. of the hon. member that there are some men here whose natural kindly natures
for Galway about the anticipated failure of the potato crop, are overcome by conaideraticos of political economy who
he could only Say that he had no apprehension on the sub- blame us for imprudence, and think us in fault because
jest. The hot blast which last year passed over the country tke destroying angel has blighted us. But among the mass
and dried up the tops of the plant, and also took away the of the people of this country the deepest sympathy is felt
sustenance from the roots, Wag totally different from the rot I for our siiffering, ; the minds of men run in deep and pure
of 184.5. The first was occasioned by great drought, and came ; confluence, in one gre w
at ork of beneficence, for which I
in August, whilst the last, which made its appearance in trust that our gratitude is commensurate with your gene-
, October, was caused by excessive wet, and the crop, which 1 rushy. A. higher feeling of mutual trust and friendship may
I was unprecedented in size, preserved its foliage to the latest be thus brought about, and if it be, I for one shall feel that
pinind •it was, in fact, no more akin to the blight of last from this great calamity a good—a great and lasting good-
-1 year than it was to the wireworm in the wheat. It was will he, at least, peduced. It is not only in a fiscal but it
r written, that while the earth lasted seed time and is also in a political point of view that we must regardthese
barveil should continue, and he felt no apprehension circumstances ; and I shall rejoice if this parliament,
on the subject of the potato calamity. (Hear, hear.) close of its career, shall give us this parting testimony of
He dissented from the opinion that the effect of lending goodwill; this indication also of that which it deems should be
money for the construction of railways was to depress the the policy of the government. You must all feel that that
finances of the reentry by converting flU3ting capital into goverment has been placed in a most peculiar and
fixed capital. So far from tying up capital, the operation of perplexing position. You cannot but feel that Lord
such advances was, he believed, to set capital at liberty. Clerendon and his able auxiliaries are surrounded with
Let the house confider the value of the principal which, difficulties—difficulties resulting in a great degree from
having formerly been held in suspense, as regarded trade, pestilence and famine, but also resulting, let me take leave
was now set free by railway communication. About to say, from the death of one to whom the noble lord has
96,000,000!. had been already expended on railways. The alluded—of one to whom his country owes countless obligee
groeo returns amounted to 8,000,0001. per year, 5,000,0001. of tions—of one to whom, when the prejudices, the parsions,the
which wee derived from passenger traffic, and. 3,000,0001, antipathies and the predilections of the hour shall have
from goods traffic. Over and above the saving of time, the passed away, and those impartial feelings shall have arisen
cost of travelling had been reduced at least one
-the by which they are succeeded, Ido not entertain a doubt that
third, and that of • , even as compared w the attributes of reel greatnese—intellectual and political—
the cost on canals, one- ale In feet, whilst the will be approvingly an:Aided by an admiring and grateful
railway companies were obtaining a large profit, the people ! 1 trust the time will never come when English
public were gaining the difference between 8,000,0001. and statesmen shall accord in n joie:jag that that voice is silent by
21,000,0001., which, calculated at 5 per cent. interest, repro- which a nation was controlled—that accents which a whole
seated 260,00,0001. sterling. (Hear, hear.) In illustration people were accustomed to obey, and =which senators hung
of his argument, be would refer to a curious statement with admiration, is hushed is the grave for ever! I wish
which he had received from Mr. Robert Weak, who had for he had been spared! I wish he bad lived to see that city
twelve years been employed as an assistant poor-law corn- which was the object of his pilgrimage, and in which is the
miesioner. This gentleman stated that in the course of that most costly shrine of that religion of which he was
period he had travelled 99,607 miles in the service of his at once the humble believer and the dauntless
country, 69,000 miles by the old modes of conveyance, and champion ! I wish that he had lived to kneel down at
30,607 by railway. The avenge cost by the old the altar of the noblest temple raised with hands—that the
modes was Is. Qui per mile, by railway 31d. " old man's faltering step " had found its way to the marble
(Hear, hear.) The saving of time, was still more altar of the Vatican, where amid the blaze and effulgence
remarkable than that of distance. Had the whole distance of ascerdotal pomp, he might have knelt to receive the salute-
been performed by railway, the time occupied would have non of the greatest pontifical reformer who has ever eat
been one year, thirty weeks, and six days; had the old con- upon the throne of St. Peter ! Forgive me—oh! lam
valances only been used, it would have been four years, sure you will forgive me—l, who so seldom feel justified in
thirty. nine weeks, and one day. As far as the commissioner addressing you—if I seize on this occasion to offer my
himself was concerned, the molt was that in twelve years of tribute to the memory ef the illustrious dead—to one whom
his life, three years end eight weeks might be saved by rail- wisdom, whose fortitude, and whose perseverance
were truly
way communication, and, as far as the public were con- an example to the world ! (The hon. member, who spoke
arned, that instead of 7,7361.—the amount if the in tones of deep pathos, and was mod attentively heard, re-
whole distance were performed under the old system— mimed his place amid profound silence.)
1,3441. would be the cost of conveyance. The case Mr. W. E. COLLET'' briefly defended himself from the
of the Manchester and Hull Railway afforded another illus- allusions of the hon. member for Bath.
tration. Up to the year 1839 the charge for conveying goods Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL also adverted tto the speech of
by canal between Manchester and Hall was 4511. per ton ;by the member for Bath. His lectures and protests, he said.
railway, in 1845, it was 24e. per ton ; and the time saved by name too late, and his prophecies about the potato crop mane
the substitution of the latter mode of conveyance for the too early.
former wee a fortnight. The actual saving on Manchester Mr. M. GORE said he should support this measure.
goods esortmod to Hull was between 200,0001. and 300,0001. The hon. member road extracts from the opinions of Sir
a year. Trarag the amount at 2.50,0001., calculated at 5 per Robert Kane, Sir John Burgoyne, and others, and also from
cent., there was represented a capital of 6,000,0001. sterling- the evidence of the Duke of Wellington before a ormaittee
The fortnight a t which he had spoken was especially import- in 1836, 1 show the value of the introduction of the
aid, gime Isertsen days sates were thus gamed for the system into Ireland, and expressed his belief thrall=
tads wI lie Hakim, MA* aimed in October. Again, in teed to the social regeneration of the country,
the thethelsdis. LOOPS ts" itt "11l were "11"117_."- Mr. TRELA.WI. considered that this theorem wr a
sired Land a wring of le. per ton would give 160,0001. a ,„0,4t (lanai,. precedent. ,„,d might well be sisal * -dm I
year. The competiorm of the in-borne coal with sea-borne people of this country, if they were ever in a similar ateM '
coal was highly important. On 97 miles of the Grand of distress to that which existed in Ireland. He regretted
Junction Canal the large for conveying goods hod been re- that these measures of relief had been adopted. Another
dated from 16s. per ton to 2a. per ton, and for coals trom9s. Id. objection to the measure was, that by lending money at a
to Is. The charge for conveying coals by canal even from lower rate of interest than it bore in the market they were
Leicester had been reduced to 7s. per ton ; and if the result injuring the trader and the merchant. Capital ought to flow
of the completion of all the railways should be to reduce into Ireland more naturally than by this meanie He bo-
th* general price of coal by one-half of the freight, Herd the true remedy for Ireland would be an ineeme-tax,
3,000,000 tons being consumed annually, there would be a and asseeeed taxes, and, in fact, to carry out the principle of
saving to the metropolis of 500,0001. a-year on coals alone. Ireland for the Irish.
He thought he had said enough to show how little truth Sir J, GRAHAM said he had observed the impatience of
there was in the allegation that the money employed on the house to come to a division, and, so far from thinking
railwats was lost to the country. It was a peculiar advan- that impatience unnatural, he sympathised with it, and
cage of money lent to railways that it entailed no staff of would promise not to read a single extract, and only to cm-
naid officers,. whereas under the government system of relief copy its attention fora very short space of time. Before he
in Ireland the number of paid officials six weeks ago wasimmediately under caneretorat •
appease I,aa the question ion,
15,978 ; and even according to the last return there were he could not omit adverting to the speech of the right hon.
3,7l2,invelying a cost to the country of 00,0001 a-veer. and learned gentleman, the member fur Danger van (Mr.
Had his own scheme been passed for lending 16,000,000!. the Shell). He (Sir J. Graham), had not the good fortune to
application of it would not have cost in salaries 10,9001. hear the whole of that speech, and it was with diffidence he
a year, and he still believed that such a measure would be ventured to mi. ins it. He had heard two portions, one of
productive of tbe best results ; and, by introducing industry, which he thought was peculiarly applicable to the present ne.
employment, and contentment, would drive agitation from anion; the other he thought somewhat out of place. Although
the shores of Ireland. it bad been his (Sir J. Graham's) misfortune to differ ita-
lic. LADOUCHERE had no wish to say anything incon- quently and generally front the views of the late
of Mr. O'Con-
sistent with the noble lord's general eulogy on railway corn- nell, yet be thoughtn Roman oaths& aseader that house
munication. The measure before the house should who for so many years had taken, an active part with that
be dealt with as part of a general scheme of hon. and learned gentleman in struggling for the liberties of
relief, and with reference to the present state of the his Roman catholic fellowscoentrymen, was justified in
country. No scheme for encouraging railways, however ex. adopting this natural opportunity of paying that just tribute
tcnsive, would have been adapted to meet the calamity which of gratitude which the ft man catholic community owed to
had visited Ireland, or to save millions of the Irish people that di,tinguiahed individual, whose talents every member
from famine. (Hear, hear.) The government were told of the house, however he might differ hankie public can-
that there had been no return of the number of persons who dace, could not fail to admire and respect. Some passing
had died from famine and fever; they could at least tribute in that house to his memory was due, and by no one
make a return of millions who would have died but for the could it be more properly or eloquently offer, d than by the
preventive measures which had been ard. (Hear, hev.) right hon. and learned. member tor Dungervan. (Hear, hear.)
fhe last report from the relief commers showed thia Ile now dime to that portion of the right hon. and learned
2,600,000 human beings were still semorted by daily ration& gent/emetic speech which he thought out of place. The
This was an enormous effort—an Abet which could not be right hon. and learned gentleman bad expressed a hope that
mad, with. e, producing great abuse, but, at the same time, the parliament wou'd, by the adoption of this measure, give
let it be remembered that it had stayed famine and its flight- some practical proof of its sympathies for the wants and ser-
fs' companion, perailsmos. It wee wises to say that *rat rows of Ireland. Such a proof he did not think was wanted.

1
&Meg the present session, the house, with almost mall- totally independent of the 'living state of Ireland. It arose
gality, bad met every proposition submitted by the govern- from a conviction that it was absolute ly necessary that the
meat for the relief of Ireland, and this was the first measure people of Ireland should be employed ; which could not be
' brought forward far that object which had met with °peal. done but by the creation of public works : and that scheme
don from any quarter. Having listened to the speech of the 'mot only ensured them employment, but on terms which se-
First Lord of the Treasury, he (Sir .1. Graham) was some- cured England from any less. (Cheers.) That was the
what at a loss to discover upon what principle the proposition ground on which it was brought forward : end every argu-
was made at the present moment. lie could well under- meat which the noble lord brought forward in support of his
stand the views of the noble lord the member for Lynn, and measure had been brought forward in rapport ef her Ma-
those who acted with hies. in urging early in the session that jest 's government. (Hear, hear.) If the prineiples of poll.-
' these advances were justified by the existing distress in Ire- tical economy were violated by the toble lord the member
land ; but the noble lord opposite (Lord J. Russell) dia• for Lynn, they were violated I•y her Majesty's eovernment.
chimed that ground for the present measure, and therefore The question was this, did the people of England earn more
it must be considered aad treated as an abstract question of for the good government of Ireland or for the principles of
general policy ; and he (Sir J. Graham) was not surprise 1 political economy ? No; the answer of the people of Eng-
that her Majesty's ministers should wish to treat it in that land, before whom they would appear in a short time, would
way. When they opposed the plan of the noble lord the be, that " Ireland is the disgrace of England; the people are
member for Lynn, he (Sir J. Graham) war induced to join suffering, miserable, and unemployed—hereis a statesmenlike
that opposition by the triumphant speech of the right hon. scheme prepared for their empluyme tat, you, the parliament
baronet the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Looking at the of England, rejecled it in the month of Felnuary, eng,
measure in that point of view, he could see no ground,. upon scheme about to be resolved, you clit g to the fteg-end of that
which it ought to be supPorteJ• lie was not opposed tc , and hold it out as the only plan for the regeneration
limited advances being mode for such objects se this bill had of Ireland." They were prepared to take it in that light,
In view ; in short, the late government, with which he had and they would leave no room for doubting that they gave it
6aerwed, had favourably entertained a proposition fee an ad- theirentlre support. The right hon. baronet the member fur
mina to one of the railway companies embraced in the pro- Dorchester objected that only one-third of the capital in-
visions of this bill. But under what circumstances, and with vested in the railroads obe impended in the earth-worlts.
what limitations? The house was aware that for public Now, it was well known that the labour expended on tail-
works in all parts of the United Kinadom, there was avail. ways amounted to two-thirds of the capital employed on it.
able an annual sum of 360,0001., without the necessity of What was the principal feature ie Mr. Gedley'a system?
any strain upon the ordinary resources of the country. One lie was the apostle of Irish coloni•ation. God knew that
el these companies, in 1846, applied for assistance, and his every one would be glad to send the Irish to Canada ?
with
*lithon. friend the member for Tantworth answered that, laugh.) But the queetion woe, what was to be doee
(ma in the then fleurishing state of the tanners of the them when they got there ? Mr. Godley had condered
Wintry, he could not authorise the loan unless the company tbat, and proposed that they should bee mployed in m siaking
brought itself within the prescribed regulations. But what a railway from Halifax to Quebee. Wuthat scything more
were the circumstances at the • present moment, when air better than what his noble friend the member foe Lynn
650,0001. was proposed to be advanced ? He was glad to had, at the commencement of the s. 'pion, proposed that they
admit that the financial prospects were somewhat should do in their own country ? (Hear, hear.) And yet
better than when the subject was last discussed ; still, peal- the governmehadnt had
ed in opposc4 histhe plan as a
umphntagonistic to Cher
liar liar caution in the management of the finances of the coup- policy,. and ri tri they
try was necessary. True it was that exchanges were not over his motion, lie doubted whether they would be able
now as untavourable as they were two or three menthe ago; to explain such conduct to their constituents. (lieu, hear. I
true it was that bullion was not flowing out of the country He was yet to learn that the vople of England would
to America, but, on the other band, it most be remembered submit to have the empire Reverted on the principles of
that the importation of corn within the last month had been pure political economy. The question for the house to
greater then at any former period of the commercial history consider was not whether arta n political maxims were
of the country. This large importation must be met either political truths, but whether the condifien of the people
by an exportation of specie or of manufactured goods. The in England and Ireland was to he improved. He should
staple manufacture was the cotton manufacture, and, with support the present vote, because, although small in amount,
respect to it, the unfortunate circumstance had arisen that It conceded the principle which his noble friend had ad-
' the price of the raw material had reached an unexampled vocated. (Hear, hear.)
height—hence he feared that the exportation df specie to a Mr. HUME thought that the case of the hon. member for
considerable extent must take place. (Hear, hear.) True Sheewsbury and the noble lord the member for Lynn was
It was that the rate of discounts had also somewhat triumphant ageinst the goverument. He had listened in vain
fallen, but still it was unusually high. Sacs for any reason why the gevernmeet, which had opposed ear-
then were the existing circumstances and pros- tain principle in February should warmly support
volved
it in
pate. One of the principal arguments urged by his Juue. The sum now proposed was small, but it in
right hon. friend (Sir R. Peel), when he brought forward the principle for which the noble lord, the member for Lynn,
the property tax, was the indispensable necessity of keeping had contended. He had opposed the noble lurd's motion as
a balance in the exchequer, so as to avoid the necessity of an interference with what no government had a right to
drawing upon the Bank of Eogland to meet deficiency bills. touch, and as a measure of favour to a portion of Ireland at
This neareity had arisen in April last, and it was a Mecum- the expense of England and Scotland, and, far the same rea-
stance which ought to be bottle in mind before the house sons, he shnuld oppose the present vote. (Hear, beer.)
gave its consent to this measure. He could not overlook the Mr. CARDWELL (who rose amid loud and general cries
present circumstances of Ireland. He had given a cheerful of " Question,") said that before the debate closid the house
support to all the measures of relief which had been hitherto had a right to be informed whether this was an exceptional
proposed, but he had a strong impression that every shilling case founded on the particular ereumstances of Ireland, or
now advanced to that country should have in view, not the whether it was to be the commencement of a new course of
indirect employment of labour, but the direct effect of im- policy ? (Hear, hear.) Whether, in fact, it was to he the
proving the cultivation of the soil, in order to secure the foundation of a new system of administration in Ireland ?It
production of a larger quantit of food. (Hear, hear.) He had been said that Englishmen were not to be assisted, be.
would not speculate with the hon. and learned member for cause they helped themselves, end the'. Irishmen were, be-
Bath with respect to the probable re suit of the coming harvest, Cause they did not. (Hear, hear.) If that was to be the •
but the apprehensions as to the potato crop were beyond spe- policy of the government, it should be fairly and intelligibly
culation. lie feared that the tent of experience showed that the laid before the house. (Hear, het.) lie remembered the
growing crops of potatoes had this year semen the same arguments with which the government had opposed the
oemptoms of that early taint which were the precursors of noble lord, the member for Lyon, in February, when
- .. • - - • - e'e --• ' - described Ids Kheme as one for the relief

they
of destitute labourers, but of disttessed sharetv;lden.
It was Englishmen who got up the Dublin and Cast el railway.
and the money would therefore be very much fur the relief
of Englishmen. A railway had been pr jected (rem London
to Leeds; and if ever there was a case in which axon. g to
parliament for the employment of labour was justified it we.
tlaftt ; but they did n,t seek such aid. As well might the
Caleuonian railway, or the railway from London to Holy-
head, ask for the aseistanee of the government as say of the
Irish railways. If the government did not interfere with
the Dublin and Carlow railway, they would find it necessary
to go on in their own defence, and it would be completed
without any avistance. As for as the exchequer was con-
cerned, he thought it was extremely improvident to make
such an advanoe of money for such a purpose. It was true
that it came from a balance in the exchequer; but it must
be remembered that such balance had been obtained by
I having recourse to a loan ; and never since the conclusion of
I the war had the market for Exchequer Bills been what It
was new. (Hear, hear.) Would no corn have to he iss-'
ported in the ensuing rear 7. (Hear, hear.) If they wen'
to tell Ireland to do nothing for themselves. fur this country
would do all for them—Scotland and England would help ;
themselves, and, therefore, we would not *Wig them. If
this was to b 3 the policy to lie pursued towards Ireland, he
was glad that it had been announced to the country on dm
eve of a general election. (Hear, hear.)
The house divided--For
Against 62-113
The hill was then read a second mine.
The house adjourned at 1 o'clock.

symptoms se ..
the calamity of lost year. (Hoar, hear.) If so, 660,0001.
would not suffice to meet tne wants of Ireland or of this
country. He repeated his conviction that any further ad-
vances ought to be made for the encouragement of the im-
proved cu.tivation of the soil, and in the establishment of
some experimental system of colonisation. Ile concurred
with the hon. and learned member for Bath, that all the
arguments raised against the plan f the noble lord the
member for Lynn, were applicable to the memere now
under consideration. This was a measure calculated not to
relieve the poor, but to favour speculators in Irish railroa Is.
The favour shown by this measure to chosen railways would
inflict great injustice upon other companies who were sub-
jected te all the disadvantages of borrowing in the market.
(Rear, hear.) He objected to this mode of what the noble
lord, the member for Lynn, termed wedging the govern-
ment into the necessity of adopting the princ.ple of railway
relief to Ireland. The Ten Hours' Bill, to which refer nee
was made, had been forced up.m the legislature against the
strong protest of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the
First Lord of the Treasury being of opinion that it was full
of danger and fraught with uncertainty; and yet now, with
the experience of all the arguments that had been waged by
them against the principle of making advances to Irisa rail-
ways front the public purse, they brought forward a measure
having that object. lie should, therefore, vote against it as
wrong in principle, as well as impolitic. (H. sr, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was sue-
, prised to hear the right hon. gentleman any that his noble
I friend (Lord J. Rswell) had brought forward this measure
as port and parcel of his general policy towards Ireland, and
not founded it on the sp cial circumstances of that country ;
because the whole of their measures for Ireland in tho pre-
sent session had been called for, brought forward and founded
' upon nothing else than the special circumstances of the
failure in the potato crop and the consequent great change
in the sociut condition of that country. (Hear, hear.) The
government were charged with inconsistency in opposing
the proposition of the noble lord, the member for Lynn,
end now submitting a measure of a similar character ; but
that which in the early part of the year would hose been
utterly insufficient as a measure of relief, might now prove
a useful auxiliary. (Hear, hear.) Then it was a question
of starvation, and now, that the people had been supplied
with food, it became more a question of employment.
(Hear. hear.) When his noble friend, the member
for Lynn, brought forward his proposition, the govern-
ment did not say that no assistance should be given to
Irish railways, but that they were convinced that such a
mode of &mistime would fail to arrest the ravages of pesti-
lence and famine. That was the main ground upon which
they resisted the noble loffra preposition. The Irish pro-
'Retort had been largely attacked for not having done more
le relieve the people at that period. He would not defend
their conduct throughout the whole of Ireland, but he must
say that, generally speaking, they were utterly unable to do
to. Relief in the shapeof food was therefore necessary. They
had since had considerable experience by the mode of admi-
nistering relief under the poor-law, and they hail had an seta
parliament passed to enable them to afford out-door relief.
He thought, then, that the time had come when sasistance
from this country must cease, and the onus of affording
relief to the people of Ireland be thrown upon the gentry
lad lemied proprietors of that country. (Hear hear.) Still
k was asamsary to aid Ireland in her present state of tran
skims, by affording employment. They had already voted a
grant for fishery piers; they had paned a measure for lend-
ing larger sums of money to the landed proprietors, to enable
them Si employ the people, and they now submitted a mea-
-61.1.0 which they hoped would also have that effect. The right
hos. gentlernau the member for Dorchester talked of experi-
Metetein the reclamation of waste lands, and a system of
asimisation ; but no good could result from them with such
alma as was now proposed for Irish railways. Besides, this
erne not an advance of money to Irish railways without m-
ordent. They had placed at the disposal of the public works
loan commissioners& larger sumo( money than heretofore, en.
&Sling them to make loans which, if they had had the means,
they would have made without coming to the Treasury—be-
cause, as in the case of the Waterford and Kilkenny, and the
Dublin and Drogheda, they considered the security good,
and the undertakings advisable. The circumstances of Ire-
land were a good deal changed since the commencement of
the year, and it was most desirable to find employment for
the people under such cheeks as them.
Mr. DISRAELI thought that the present conduct of the
government proved that in stopping the progress of the pro-
position of the noble lord the member for Lynn, they had at
least ben animated by ton precipitate a spirit. He could
not understand how hon. gentlemen who had opposed
that proposition could now support tHa measure which her
Majesty's minister had brought forward, in his opinion, by
ts the most irresistible, and founded upon data
=nBta one could controvert. (Hear, hear.) 'I he right
hoe. gentleman the member for Dorchester had widened
the basis of the debate, by stating that they were that night to
Beside sot whether they would support this measure, but w he-
ther they would support certain princi plea of political economy.
That was the real question at issue. If the question on which
they were to go to the country were ibis, whether it should
be the policy of goyernment to adhere to any pedantic appli
cation of the principles of political econo.ny, he should give
his rote decidedly against it. It was very well for an ben.
gentleman to rise and my that if railroads in Ireland were
good security for the investment of property why did not
Irish or Englisheapitaliats invest their treasure in the for-
mation of such works. The question for a prime minister of
England was, whether it was or not the fact, whatever may
be the cause, that capital was not invested in Ireland, and
that the people were not employed. That wee not the con-
sequence of any transitory circumstance, like the potato
famine, but it was now an inveterate circumstance to the
economical history of Ireland. Was it not a fact that in the
year 1823—n year of peace, and precedingayear of great puliti-
eal agitation In Ireland—money was lent in Ireland eta rateot
latorou one and a half per cent. higher than that raids it at
larded in England? Minister after minister had to struggle
wawa this circumstance ; that, though Ireland was a country
with a rich sal, immense material, natural resources, and a
mutation which he bell veal to be industrious, the capital of
England did not flow in there. It was all very well for a
member of • metropolitan district to ask why the govern-
ment did not do for his constituency what they were doing
for Ireland. They should recollect that that constituency did
fee themselves what the people of Ireland did not de for
themselves. ffmnical cheers.) Bat was an empire to perish
—was Ireland to be lost because they should choose to legis-
late for Ireland with all the comfortable experience of the
member for the borough of Southwark? This was,not the
accident of an hour but it arose out of the misgovern-
ment of centuries, which the noble lord (Lord J. Russell)
talked about. It could not be denied that a great difference
in the state of the two countries did exist, and whatever
may be the cause, that difference must be recognised in the
legislature, and the minister must bring forward measures
which, in some degree, must tend to lessen it. His noble
friend the member for Lynn brought forward his measure
at the commencement of the session, and the object of it was
that England should expend, on undeniable security,
4,000,0001. per annum in the employment of labour in Ire-
land. It had been said that he brought it forward in
consequence of the potato famine ; he heal no hesitation
in se log tint the potato (amino and the state of Inland
justified that measure ; but it was founded on serial=
eiples of policy, entertained by the noble loci sod

crhe erprosg.

MAILS.
The mail. for New South Wales, Van Diemen'. Land, and Row
Zealand will be made up on the evening of the 30th Jure.
The West India mall., Including Mow for Me..co, Honduras, sal
the Havannah, will be made up on the morning of the 2nd Jule.
The mails for British North America, Bermuda, and the Called
States, will be made up on the evening of the lid Jule.
Th. averlvel null* for Gibraltar, Malta, Grim.% tlie lonian Ishad.,
Itimpt, Aden, Ceylon, Ind g, and China, via Sorghum...a,
will be mode up on the tinning of the July.
The ineile for the Brazils, the River Plate, Monte Video, PIMA.
and Bin nos Ayree, will be made ep on Me
cif th Jul.
re
Theta
overland clewed malls, via Manwillea, to the M.iii,MAlGag
,:int,Adeo, Ceylon. India, Urn Kong, &e.„ will be made up on tbe
evening of the 7th Jule.
British North America,
mall for the United Statee, he. be
made up on the imminent 10th July, for Iran:minion by ihe rasa
Waabington, fmm Foutbampton. Lettereand pa;
vr. must be pedal
marked, "Per Wmhington."

TO CORIMITOIDENTS.
obtAIBMWIIt. blooded for The E lbbchobe.
rreeb Leeetba Mem; ph te, mph
be Ow Oahe by Tore o'clock be tbe do epu

111011 WATER AT 1.0211)021.3RIDOW
1.3 .• 32-3103,123. 21 w.u. pass ; 1.11 % 3.31 am 13 Vie. past 2.
aaaaa —Menlo& • wl2. prt 3; ARemone. whs. pr. 3.

LONDON, TUESDAY, JUNE 29.
IN the Lords, last night, Lord BEOCCHAM submitted
a motion for the appointment of a commission, founded
on certain resolutions he had propounded on the 4th
of May of last year, with the view of remodelling the
system of legislating on private bills, expressing his
apprehension, from the class of candidates in the
field, that after having had a Laek-learning, a Habeas
Corpus, and a Long, they were now about to tan
Railway parliament —After some observations from
Lord REDESDALE, in defence of the purity of the
committees appointed on railway bills in that bosses
the Duke of Iltenmotim, followed by the Marquis d
LANSDOWNE, suggested the withdrawal of the sr
tine, but which was at length put and negatived
without a division.—The Bishopric of Manchester
Bill was read a third time and pawed.
In the House of Commons, a conversation took
place between Lord J. MANNERS and Mr. I{A'A ES, CR
the subject of the mortality which had prevailed es
board Irish emigrant ships.—Lord J. lirssEtt,
IS
answer to Mr. T. DuNcomer„ stated Mr. Macgregor
had intimated his intention of resigning his et
the Board of Trade if he succeeded in carryisg hie
election for Olisgow.—The CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER having moved the second reading of. the
Irish Railway Bill, Sir W. Motxswoaru submitted
an amendment that the next stage be taken that day
three months.—A protracted debate ensued, is the
course of which Mr. Sant cooeluded his dor*
tions by paying a fervid and brilliant tribute to !b?
memory of the late Mr. D. O'CONNELL.— 012
sion, the second reading area carried by a=Oo*'s7st
113, the numbers being 175 to 62.

-- ---
THE decisive blow has been struck at Berlin. Tho
national voice, to which the King appealed, km glk;_,
hesitatingly condemned the AaNtm-Eictraots wr
nistry. As to the subject of the last vote, the phi
pie of a property tax to be substituted for the wit
on bread and meat now levied inmost of the prindlo
towns, and which of course falls heavy on *lto IPA:
was popular. It was even recognised to be a oiallp
no lens demanded for the public welfare tone;
railroad from Berlin to Konigsbi: g. iet the otalatt
11.
of the chambers was refused to the one, W.
other, of those motions by an overwhelming lar,
city, and the public discontent at the present Olio
conducting the affairs of the state has been unatit
tally recorded. The ministerial organs, both gm
chambers and in the press, are of Louise ouirselt
and one deputy forgot himself so far as to ota 10'
expression of _want of confidence in the miasql
act of disobedience to the- king. It would dM.,...
have been an act of aggravated disobidienoe it Pr
demanding a central diet, and having had tbs Or
mans granted, the members of the provincial.
had disguiassemblinsed the feelinof the gs of the nation st be
That thecentral diet lOW
lead to the dilemma g now presented to the crows 011
to be foreseen, and it cannot take the King 0010!
Its difficulty might have been lessened by the lIIP
nisters' taking the sense of the chambers at as at
stage of the sittings, and on perceiving it 0.1 i:
against them, doing what in constitatioual AO,
isevitable--resigning. This they would uut deg ".
with hardihood that has excited artonisluneut 41104