The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-07 00:00:00

ley,*Ste this amendrisen!, he(SL.Whiteside) votild
'nor into Vie discussion of a ..ham, and ne believed
etas a motion to 'sestet trades and proteasione Imo) the io.
tome tax and leave it on land would be abortive—Onar,
!earl—end while he had 'end f.,r a motion which re-
stored a fair case Dr In built he could consistently be no
party to thi. hrotiroi. 11- s.i ul l ei•tfir vote against it or
yule out of the house. It was the intention of gentlemen
is los side of the house to submit to the house in commit-
tee aa the bill the case of Ireland. If tho house decided
ag.iost meta they would submit to its decision • but they
't that there was a ease to by submitted to Ate justice
thlidugeo`s.o; ration of the hnu.e.
and
voteY espial:led tlle grounds on which he
hs.l gives his in the recent division.
ejo tiLADSIONE had been deprived of the
c,ootsulity of discussing the extension of the in•
same taw to Ireland by the unexpected division to-
;4tic ; but nevi rthelees, as there was to be another occasion
jar oseu,sing the subject, he welsh' pass the general ques-
tion by, and proceed to ch al with the amendment. Sow
be could not a:re* with the amendment, because the prae-
tol fact of it woad be to strike Schedule 1) out of
the bill *6 I tor: ber as far as Ireland was concerned.
The hon. and learned gentleman founded his argument in
divearof this particular proposition exclusively upon the
boot which he entertained that schedule D would be so
ojoiroductiee, as after the cost of collection, to yield no
wows at all. If that were not the hon. and learned
motiernsn's belief, it was clear, as he admitted, that he
;Fuld have no argument for such an esem; tion ; since he
stogewledgesi the jealousy and heart-burnings among other
COWS of which such an exemption would be the cause.
Now, obviously, that question as to the productiveness of
ockedule 11 could not fairly be argued by the hos. and
learned gentlemen, and could not properly be dealt
with by him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) tin-
t; the bill i self wis before the eornmittee—(hear)--
far astil the bill was on the table it would be impoasih:e to
explain the proposed machinery. (Hear, hear) ti s far
the opt
estion• as between him and the hon. and learned
peademo' wee entirely one of opinion and not one of
jut; soil &di:megrim' about opinions could not be desirable.
(Hear, hear.) CadouOtediy, however, he (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) did hold an opinion contrary to that of
the hen and 'loaned gentleman ; he did believe that
schedule I) would return a considerable sum. But be
'good rota the hon. and learned gentleman that the mode
of collection must be different from the mode ef
collection in Ireland. The difficulty with re-
gird to that country was in the fact that
th, persons who would he taxable lived in
scattered plans, and that a staff of officers to collect the
impoit from these persons would be proportionately vastly
apeman; sod that was a difficulty which the hon. and
homed gentleman would find, when the bill was before
ham, had been amply considered by the government.
(hear, hear.) Without going into the g e 1 question at
all, he mart on this oceasiou refer to two points arising oat
of the conversation with which a deputation of Ms. gen-
tlemen from Ireland had favoured him, on which MIN ens
atfl/107 existed. The first point concerned the tenant
(seater'. The amount that would be produced from Wallowa,
was sot large ; but it was natural that hon. gentlemen should
feel a great interest in that class. It should be at once %tri-
dental, that the smallness of the amount would not ir.ducte
say eoaceseion from the government, which was baying its
operations in this respect on a distinct principle ; but it
was the endeavour of her Majesty's minieten to get with
thorough justice in each a case ; and the repeeseatations ea
this bawl had been fairly considered. They la/ MAW
toured to make as fair a comparison as they essid:between
the position of the Irish tenant farmer relatively to his
riot sod the case of the Scotch tenant farmer; and after
looling into the use they had come to the conclusion
that it would be just to place the tenant-farmers of Ireland
en the sortie (isotope, not as the ten int-farmers of England,
but a. the tenant fanners of Scotland. (Cheers.) He had
heard something said in the course of the evening to the
efat, that those hon. gentlemen who bad done him the
know to see him personally on this matter, had thereby
betrayed their obligations to their country ; but he could
cely say, without presuming to defend or commend them,
that he hail felt deeply indebted to them for the mode they
had taken of stating the facts, and he thought
that they had certainly done their country some
service. (Hear, hear.) The next point to which he
had to allude was with regard to the manlier in which the
Lx would he collected. As to assessing on Schedule D.
some difficulty existed ; and it was a matter of the utmost
41.:tokey to consider what agency was to be employed; and,
after careful deliberation, the government had arrived at
the opinion that those hon. gentlemen who exprzteeed their
ebjeetion to the intervention of local and mueimpal author
Wars were in the right—(hear, hear)—and that it would
be preferable to look exclusively to the omen's of the ex-
entire government in Ireland. (Cheers.) These were an-
nouocemenu which would give great satisfaction in Ireland ;
and under these circumstances ha would urge upon hon
gentlemen the desirability of not pressing new for total
concession in regard to schedule 1), sad of postponing all
discussion until the bill came up. With regard to what
had Annelid of the legacy duty he could only observe
that he would be grateful for the 6,000,0001. prophesied as
the probable return under that extension. The system of
fanning out taxes was a bad system; but in each a cue it
might be worth while to enter into a bargain with any hon.
gentleman who would undertake that such would be the
result of the new tax. (Hear, hear.) lie feared, however,
that he would have to be content with his own more mo-
dest estimate of 2,000,0001.
Mr. DISItAELI asked for an explanation in respect to
this sum, about which some misapprehension prevailed.
Was the 2,000,0001. the ultimate estimate, when four yeses
had puled ?
Mr. GLADSTONE was glad of the opportunity of re-
peating himself more distinctly on this matter. The meet
reasonable estimate which he hod been enabled to form was
that the proceeds of the legacy duty would ultimately be
2 W 0,0001., in addition to the 1,300,0001. now derived from
it. Certainly he would not be surprised if 200,0001.
or 300,00 W. beyond that sum were received; but
he did not take credit for that email over
on this ground, that the house would of necessity
soon have to modify the Probate Dnty scale ; and when
that was done there would be • falling off to the probable
amount of the excess he had mentioned under the extension.
He had, however, he believed, been somewhat in error In
calculating that the result under the extension would be
attained in four yean; it would be in about five years. It
wu also to be observed that the inference was not correct
that the 2,000,0001. would spring solely from the extension
in respect to real property ; it was also to be borne in mind
that there would be a chage in respect to settlements of
personal property.
Mr. VANCE commenced a speech, in which he did not
intimate what vote he would give or what pones he would
take, by an attack on the Irish members on the ministerial
aide. They could not be in earnest now ; for if they wire
earamt In their attempt to benefit their country, why had
they neljoimmil the patriotic members for Ireland on that (the
elleshiee) skis whoa time mean opportunity of doing some
bvia., ea Me I. kale's amendment ? Ile would not say
they Wen corrupted • but be would say that they had been
mesmerised by mieleletr. e. Oh, oh," awl begetter.)
Mr. FITZGERALD wake weep the of the
Chancellor of the ttp, wad
Oil lestmom
*no of op.
pettiest. He was he Oahe mom as he was
'domed that lesson Is redeem ensile (Kr. Dimwit%
putt) would walk eat of dm beam tribe amendment we
pressed te • divides.
Mr. hoped that the hos. member would
press the salsa to a divides. and eon ; for M thweght
it very iseleable le relieve way emediseehie doss in bobad
fres Ihs inseam lan. His mestkasole would pester Se lave
the massidated WON= wefts./ than Is salgeolod Os an
imam tax ; they disstibed the Wait as at
Imdmai (Lam Oder.) It
fora dm min
Thai Ii wee 'okay he bane[—
Imes to the amount of ewe and a half Wiles le yew being
missed *hay for the benefit of England. Grebe thirty-
Lien amebas who supported the geromwmat ea Mos-
er, s7e there oat wise wield and say that he
mlfir eadsnillly with the wishes rise,Ms osodttnents ?
OMIT would wet bare takes ow part in the
debele had be sot wheel to mention two for the
maddstslisa of the Chasidim of the . The
am Rimed le the reverse to be raised by a cm upon sue-
maim ♦ wry large ameowll mast esisswerily be raised
Alm diet Ina& of samba ; sod whet he wished chiefly
ritt.that subject wok that he hoped the light bon.
would he Wooed se embrace is his proposal
-arge elms of leeway which was held hi martmaia.
(Hear, hear.) The Nina point had referseso to the mode
of sedating the Were loz. A very Legs imam
be eilamsd by do dal* leasombie mg,
lead bear imolai wbrillte (Mr. was Meat la
state. He Ovid to the um et
thee
alto
tow paid doublo—lbel, Ipso dm wake of the Made meil
then upon what woo Mom by dm led es the Inds awe
years' value; whilst ea dm ether MBA if the efabt_ him
mailman esnmiad late the matter. he would MEd dna
only one-sixth of the lonia made any return.
sir T. O'BRIEN said he lees principally for the pumas
of telling the Cloasollie of the Ezdiscaar the► setwido
standing what had bees mid by womb MS a~lsms la
must ant take it Am graallsd that Has Imo blown a
Ireland would derive great odosatege bon is budget. He
did not agree with the km member Ate Clare ci that
subject.
Sir. F. SCILLY said he had referred only to the re-
minion of the Consolidated Assuities.
Sir T. O'BRIEN believed that the opinions which had
been expressed on that subject were incorrect. He had
read the proceedings of • deputation to the Chancellor of
the Entitles? ; but he objected to Irish cliques of 1.5 or
gentlemen taking upon themselves to decide what laws
theuld be made for his country. There were some members
of the deputation who had no interest in Ireland ; and he
ventured to say that many members of that house who
voted against the budget, had as much property there as
thetdirty-one gentlemen who bad voted for it. N'ith the
exception of the redaction of the tea duty, there was nothing
in the budget that could benefit Ireland. His vote on
Mouthy wu given conscientiously and not factiously, and
he heard nothing sines which led him to regret the course
which Le had taken.
Sc, G. GOODMAN wished to make one remark in reply
to an observation of the hon. member for the city of
Dublin (Mr. Vance.) That bon. member wee one of his
(Sir G. Goodman's) constituents, at Leeds, and had also
extensive property in the town ; but, in reply to his remark
that the manufacturers of Yorkshire would be verploth to
have the income tax extended to Ireland, be begged to say
that neither as borough of Leeds nor of the county of
York, generally,
had he heard a single objection
(tAtttplite.r.) He believed the inhabitants of York-
e4reunordered it • step in the right direction. (Gear,
Sneaking of the budget generally, he believed it
wield prove very beneficial both to this country and to
helm
Mr.& NAURICE O'CONNELL paid the boa. member for
"I 4•1 (Sir I. O'Brien) had spoken of a certain il9pat•UP