The Express.
London, England, 1849-07-04 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JULY 4, 1849.

bus from the great tows. and many members from the
country districts, discussing the qu.stions which came before
them; and they would possibly find at the first that those
who had expected a great democratic change were disap-
pointed, and that there was a great mojority belonging rather
to the conservative party than to any other political body.
(Neer, hear.) Bat then, suppoeing this great change Where
been male, had they any guarantee that satisfaction would
be given by the alteration ? (Cheers.) Did they believe that
those persons who were chiefly dissatisfied, those who were
busy with petitions in some of the great towns, would be
satisfied with such a representation ? (Hear, hear.)
Having got universal mange, when they found that
these impassable results did not follow, they went into
the streets, to the somber of twenty or thir:y thousand,
prepared to sacrifice their lives in defence of this impossible
theory. (Hear, hear) He might be told that no such oe-
comings cold take place in Ragland, that the English
people were better instructed than other nations, and would
sot entertain such an expectation. But however the hon.
gentleman might talk of the greater portion of the people of
this oountry being slaves, he (Lord J. Russell) must own
that he did not thick the advantages which they had to part
with were so trifling that they should run the ha-
nesse risk they were asked to do. (Loud cheering.)
He might be quit* miyaken in that respect; it might be
that this country wand be much happier, man prosperous,
and more free, if it adopted these propositions; but what he
saw was, that this country was very free—(hear, hear)—that
it had the enjoyment of great liberties. (Hear, hoar.) If
they were wrong with respect to soy of the economical laws
which bad been adopted, still they had been adopted with
the consent of the great body of the people, and not against
their will. Feeling this, he was not dupoied to adopt the
change which the boa. gentleman recommended. Ho be-
lieved it would be for their advantage if a greater number
of the working classes had the suffrage—(bear, hear)—lf
any change of that kind could be made with no such risks,
with no such sacrifice of all the main principles of their con-
stitution as be had mentioned. He must, therefore, oppose
the proposition of the hon. gentleman, conceiving that if
adopted it would tend to produce the greatest evils, and that
they were in the edjoyment of benefits which, if they lightly
parted with, they would he a moat foolish ant unwise on
tion. (Cheers.)
Mr. MUNTZ said it was with great satisfaction that he
had heard the noble lord declare that they were at liberty to
make great alterations, notwithstanding the passing of the
Reform Bill. (Hear, hear.) He remembered a declaration
of the noble lord on that subject, which had the effect of
giving bim the soubriquet of " Finality John." (Great
laughter.)

3001., including the 401. about which so musts had been
made. And yet a gentleman who had conducted an election
m in economically than had ever been known in Harwich
was to be bald up to public contumely as having been guilty
of corrupt ppictices. He thought Kinsale and other Irish
boroughs might be adduced as much greater instances of cor-
ruption than the boroughs of either Ewe: er Dotsetabire.
He hoped the bouts would not direct a primecutimi which
must and in failure, nor attempt to eagle out one gentleman
for punishment for an offence alleged against bias, but of
which many other. had been guilty. He must oppose the
nation.

Alter it few words from Mr. FanersX,
Sir 0. GREY could not support the motion, es it proposed
• course unprecedented. The committee had not recom-
mended a prosecution, and he much doubted whether it in-
stituted it could be m kintained.

Cr.L BUTLER replied.
The house divided—For the motion 3
Against it
The Municipal Corporation (Ireland) Bill wu read a
second time.

The Pupil's Protecion Bill, and the Benefices in Planli•
ties Bill were read a third Wass and passed.
The house adjourned at half-past 1 o'clock.

Lord J. RUSSELL—Perhaps I should explain to the
boo. gentleman that the word • finality " was led
by me. (Rear. btu.) It was, no doubt, a very Rood nigh-
nans!)—(laushter)—but I n eed the word " finality "

,
at an. (Hear, kit'ar.)
Mr. MUNTZ was very glad to hear that declaration.
(Hew, hear.) He had also rejoiced to hear the noble lsrd
declare, in the latter part of his speech, that he was in favour
of an evensioa of the suffrage, provided it could be made
with advantage sad safety—(bear, hear)--and hoped be
would not allow • very long period to elapsi before
he put his views in practical operation. The protierty
qualification seemed to him nonsense. (Hear, hear.)
It was a notorims fact that many gentlemen had
sat in that house with a nominal qualification,
who had not • shilling's worth of property in the world.
(Much laughter.) Ho ted that he could not record
his vote in favour of the motion, feeling that there was a
great deal which ought to be given to the people, and
whi• h, if it were not given, they would take. (Hear.)
Mr. F. O'CONNOR replied. The nob!e lord had com-
menced by reminding the house that the Reform Bill was
carried in deference to popular opinion. He (Mr. F. O'Con-
aor) would be glad to know when the concessions of which
he had spoken were likely to be made. (Hear, hear.) With
regard to the noble lord's analysis of the proposition that
the lab aura should be the first partaker of the fruits of his
induvry, he would observe that the words had re-
ference to taza ion. Tne noble lord had instanced
the case of France. He (Mr. F. O'Connor) had always
opposed socialism and commuLion, and hat placed himself
in dire hostility to those who advocated such theories in this
country; hut, then, the English people were nut socialists or
commun'sta, and !hereore the noble lcrd's objection did not
apply to them. If he had sought for an advocate of universal
suffrage he could not have found a better one than the
noble lord, who said that if universal suffrage were
established to-morrow the landlords would still
have the preponderance in that house. (liter, hear.)
The noble lord had intimated that when the proper time had
arrived he would mete emulsions. He (Mr. F. O'Connor)
believed that that time had arriv.d ; and that if the rights
of the reople were conceded the muses would not invade
those of others. Ile felt much obliged to the house for the
patient attention which they had given the subject ; and he
would only say in conclusion, that, come what might, it was
his deteemination to Persevere, even to the last moment of
his life, until he saw the charter the law of the land.
The house divided :
The numbers wen—Ayes l3
Noes 222 —209
SALE OF BREAD.

Mr. BANK ES then pet seeded to call the attention of the
house to the subject of the manutacture and sale of bread.
Ile did not mean to say that the general run of bakers
wee, not honest dealers, but there unquestionably 'elated a
considerable number of b,kers whose fraud and dishonesty
inflicted a most materiel injury upon the poor. It was well
known that, both as to quantity :and as to quality, the poorer
class of custom, es was in especial grossly defrauded by the
purveyors of bread. The effect of the present law was, that
all bread should be sold by weight, and there was a provision
that customers might require each loaf to be weighed on de-
livery—an efficient protection, perhaps, for the richer cus-
tomer, but Outdo' small security to the poorer customers,
many of them probably debtors of the vendor, and most of
them too caret( asin their general mode of dealing to avail
themselves of the provision. The circumstance which per-
mitted fraud was that lookers might bake loaves of -any
weight and eiz s they pleased. It was suggested that at all
events bakers should stamp upon every loaf its alleged
weight, so that detection of fraud might be
facilitated. The hon. gentleman moved that the
house should go into committee ti inquire into the subject.
The SPSAKIIIi having put the question,
Captain PEC HELL opposed the motion, an I said that the
house, having abrogated the lairs relating to the assize of
bread—laws which placed millers and bakers alike at the
mercy of.informere and migiatratee, he would
sent to revive such an injurious and obnoxious system
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that he was not indisposed to
permit the hon. member to bring in his bill, but he must
gaud against being supposed to agree to the principle. The
present system worked well. When the proposal to stamp
the brass was last year before the house, the !slicers opposed
it by very reasonable arguments, and nothing had been
urged to shake his belief an the validil of those objections.
Mr. PACKE said that the country, and mere particularly
the poor, ought to feel very much obligel to the hon. mem
her for his motion. which deserved the support of the whole
house. The price of bread in London was exorbitant, as
compared wiih the provinces.
After a short discussion the house divided, when the
flambee* were,
For the motion
Against it
The house then went into committee immediately, and •
resolution having been agreed to, leave was given to bring in
the bill.
Mr. BROTHERTON gave notice that as it was now past
12 o'clock, and they had to meet at 12 the following day, he
should, if any question were brought forward likely to pro-
voke opposition, at once move the adjournment of the
house.

TRANSMISSION OF IRISH AND scorcH MAILS.
Mr. HER then moved for a select committee to inquire
into the ezpedienny of the proposed alterations as regarded
the transmission if the mails between the south-west ef
Sentland and the north of Ireland. H. knew it might be
said that the question was not one of sufficient importance
to occupy the attention of a select committee, and that the
Post•ofdee authorities were quite competent to do all that was
weenier. His answer to that, however, was that many
committees had sat upon similar subjects, and that greatly
increased 'vital facilities had resuded from them.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
know that the committee could obtain, by inquiry, any
sore information than the house slready pcsamed ; or
that they could throw any more light on the subject. If
the railways would carry on their works to tte pripoeecl
points of transmission, then be might further consider the
question.
Mr. FREWEN did not wish to press the motion against
the opinion of the house.
Lord CAqTLEREAOII advised his hon. friend not to
withdraw the motion.
Mr. FREWEN, finding himself supported, must press
the motion to a division.
The hold's divided—
For the motion 37
Against it
INSPECTOR OF MINES AND COLLIERIES.
Mr. WYLD obtained Dove to bring in a bill to enable her
Majesty's Secretary of State to appoint inspectors of m:net
and collieries, and providing the menu of payment for such
inspection.

LYME REGIS ELECTION.
Mr. BUTLER called the sttenti.tn of the house to the
special reports and recommendation of the Lyme Regis Elec-
tion Committee of last session, charging Joke Attwood,
with bribery (then a member of this hewer, and subsequently
unseated for bribery in his election for Harwich), as
moved that the Attorney Genera be directed to prose.
cute Mr. Attwood and his agents for the alleged eases
of bribery and corruption at Lyme ft, gis and Harwich.
He referred to the preceding' at the elections of Athlone
and Kinsale, as brought out in the reports of the election
committees and by letters from both them boroughs, as show-
ing that Mr. Attwood's interference with the freedom of
election wee not even eanfised to this country, but had been
*vendee to Ireland. If a check wee not put to such a system
by the house, he had no doubt that half of the Irish num-
b n would ere long have to make way fur the millionaires of
the city of London, who, like Mr. Attwood, would find spe-
culation in Irish boroughs a profitable investment.
Major BERRSFORD had expected to have to defend his
late hon colleague from charges brought against him in
connexion with Lyme Regis and Harwich ; but it appeared
that the whole complaint now resolved itself into a fear of
an invasion of Inland by Eog'ish capitalists. He under-
stood that it was English capital Irish members were
anxious to see brought into Ireland, but not, it appeared,
when it interfered with their owo p-usual political interest.
In the ease of Lyme Regis bribery was brought home not to
Mr. Atwood, but to an agent ; and with regard to Harwich,
the whole expense of the Late election had not coat more than