The Express.
London, England, 1851-06-13 00:00:00

EXPRESS, FRIDAY itreitzto, JUNE 13, 1851.

THE

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order wee—" ham Ibis date, an ponsotles, allaWS
special helllisat sundial. Makin made ia may
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Why erodekaiak' net thee 411111.7ribe muted oat'? Why sheabl
It be set aide by apalmation a 0 now carried ea ?
It bad hese &nu by the rdasel
statesecrilemeatary
11 8111111101•11 MS, that she. en
the St, MS hod .over serval sae day ; 190 had
marred Ism them In years ; 92 betwesa live and ten
reap, mid 1111 Uterus 10 and 18 years. (Hear, hear.) In
Oa not afsamradaes. the pirmorneme ware mach the mate
Oat at semmeadies. 4122 bed aim awed me day.,
Ha (Kr. Hoe) threght thatiOmbeleals were sullehat ;
Weald have se mere premelles tin they wen rehased %that
lumber. Preeselha ought weer Mgesaheyeed the Imhof
the service, and 'beelike ably amazed is time if war.
The twe now saw the evil, and was anxious to apply a
with as little Wary as possible to the sneers eon-
C'e=7; K
but why not Tema to the plea eahreed is ?
Admiral OODON sesenered is the dierrelay abasing
any plan which should net he peilastive of hirable to
some individuals. He knew of no better priaelple than
that of extensive retirement during the time of pew'.
After a few words from Sir D. 1.. EVANS and Sir G. Pa-
nama.,
Mr. COBDEN thought it was understood when the com-
mittee was appointed that reduction, not increase, of expen-
diture, in the navy was contemplated. The report of that
committee, which he held in his hand, referred to the sub-
ject of the reduction of the number of admirals and com-
manders, and to the policy of promoting. only one captain
to the rank of admiral on three vacancies in the list of
admirals. He had heard no good or sufficient reason why
that suggestion was not acted upon. (Hear, hear.) A
similar recommendation was made in 1930, but there
seemed some insuperable objection to adopting it. He
admitted there was great difficulty in dealing with the
claims of officers who were in the service, and who, by rte.
son of that service, expected to derive advantages. (Hear,
hear.) But the proposition then before the committee was
to increase the charge by 6,5001. per annum ; so that it was
clear, if any benefit was to be derived to the country by
economy, it would be prospective. (Hear, hear.) Whilst
he was not prepared to offer any opposition to the vote
claimed by the right hon. gentleman (Sir F. T. Baring),
yet he wished to stipulate that, in future, they should have
all the advantages to be derived from the system. (Hear,
hear.) In his opinion, the time was fast approaching when
the public would regard this question very differently
from the light in which they at present viewed it. If per-
sons entered the navy, without there beingservice for them,
the same rule would before lung be applied to them as to
parties in the civil service; and if the services of such
gentlemen wore not needed iu the navy, the public, he
thought, would not consent to pay thorn in any way, either
on half-pay or otherwise. (Hear.) Therefore, in justice
to dune young men who were about to enter as cadets, as
well as to the public, the Board of Admiralty should adopt
eons measure to restrict their admission to the naval ser-
vice. (Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Sir W. Jottirre and Sir F. T.
Baal/fO,

The vote was agreed to.
On the vote of 843,1931. to defray the expenses of naval
stores, building and repairs of fleet, and steam machinery,
Mr. HUME begged to move that the sum be reduced. by
one-third. It appeared to him that the time had come
when it was necessary to effect a reduction in this depart.
ment. The gross estimate fur naval storm in the year '4B-'49
was only 1,511,0001.; fur '40.'41 it did notexceed 1,000,0001.,
whilst in 1833 it was only about half a million. At pre-
sent they had a larger number of vessels thus in the time
of Buonaparte, and such times, he was glad to say, were not
likely to occur again. They hail a large number of vessels
in ordinary ; and it seemed to him a great waste of the
public money to expend it in building ships and then
allowing them to rot in dock. (Hear.) Why should they
have more ships than they could man ?
Mr. W. WILLIAMS considered that some step should be
taken to put • stop to the wasteful expenditure in the dock-
(ear,yardsH hear.)
Mr. fRELAWNY said there might be considerable
economy in respect to the recommissioning of ships. The
standing rigging of a ship out of commission would stand in
'many cases from 12 to 14 years; but it was taken down
and cut up as so much waste, though a merchant would
give a good price for it. He had been told by sailors that
their hair had stood on end when they had seen good rope
thrown away. (Laughter.)
Admiral BERKELEY said that this attack with regard to
the number of ships which composed her Majesty's navy had
been so frequent that he had very little to add to what he
had already said on the subject. It was clear that if they
were unfortunately involved in war they must have at least
four or Live and twenty sail of the line in the Mediterranean,
and the same number in the Channel ; and he thought the
committee would agree with him that the present number
of ships was not more than would be wanted if such 'nevi'
as war arose. The total number of ships of the line now
amounted to 70. Of that number as many as 12 or 14 were
small seventy-fours, left from the last war, which could not
be considered fit to cope with the ships of other nations of a
superior clan. It was not their (the Admiralty's) fault
that they had these ships; they had been kept through a
long protracted war, whilst the ships of other nations had
been destroyed and new ones built to supply their place.
Looking at the force of nations close to our own shore, he
thought the committee would say that there was not one
ship too many. It was true that there were twenty soil of
the line building, but it was not intended that any of them
should be launched at present, except one constructed with
a screw propeller. The principle of the propeller being
new in its application to ships of war, it was thought de-
sirable that a vessel should be launched fur the purpose of
ascertaining how it would act. (Hear.) A great deal bad
been said about the large sum expended in building these
ships ; but, in point of fact, one fourth went in building
and the remainder in repairs.
Mr. MACGREGOR said the speech made by the gallant
admiral was as superannuated in its character as any speeeh
he had ever heard. He (Mr. Macgregor) admitted that it
was of the first importance that this country should be able
to defend itself against any, ho would almost say, pos-
sible attack ; but he contended that it was at that moment
in a position to defy the united navies of the whole world.
(Hear, hear.) Now, what was the condition of the British
navy ? The gallant admiral had told them that they had
70 ships of the line, and that some of those were the old
seventy.fours. Now, of what did the British navy consist ?
There were 12 ships of the line, 11 of 120 guns, 1 of 110,
50 of 104, 4 of 92, 2 of 90, 11 of 84, 9 of 80, 7 of 78, 18 of
72, 2 of 70, being 70 of the lino and 13 on the stocks and
nearly finished, which gave a total of 83 sailing ships of the
line. Of frigates afloat there were 25 of .50 guns, 10 of
44, 22 of 42, 4 of 50, 1 of 38, 1 of 36; total, 63 frigates afloat.
On the stocks there were 2 double-banked 60-gun frigates,
equal to ships of the line, and 6 of 50—making altogether
71 frigates, 65 of which would be found far mote than
sufficient to destroy the whole Russian fleet. Besides the
foregoing they have 21 covettes of 21 to 28 gun,
8 of 18 to 22, 18 sloops of war from 14 to 18,
50 brigs of 6 to 16, 11 sailing packets, be-
stsites surveying ships, troop ships, yachts, and tenders.
Their steam fleet also was numerous, but it had he feared
been built with a rapidity which would render many of the
ships obsolete when taxed by a comparison with other steam
ships and by naval tactics. There were, however, a number
of steam ships belonging to different private companies, of
sufficient sin and tonnage to cope with all the steam ships
belonging to the continent of Europe. He said that fear-
lessly. They had altogether 147 steam ships, and 4 of
them were formerly 76-gun ships, and now had engines of
450 horse power. Exclusive of the Royal Navy there was
the general commercial steam navy of thiscountry available,
if necessary, for war purposes. There was the General
Steam Navigation Company, with its vessels perpetually in
the Channel which would prevent this country from ever
being surprised, as they plied to and from almost every im-
portant port on the continent. There were also 10 splendid
ships belonging to the West India Mail-Packet Company.
As regarded the Canard line of ships, he believed there
was no officer of the navy who had examined them who was
not of opinion that they would be u efficient for war pur-
poses a for those to which they were applied. The
ships of the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation
Company might be used either in the British Channel
or in the Mediterranean. The ships of the Royal Navy
combined with those of the mercantile navy, were,
he believed, more formidable than the other navies
of the world combined, and the apprehension of war
was one to which this country could not give credit-
Now, what was the state of other navies ? He would begin
with that of Russia. The nay of Russia had always been
a great bugbear, and admirals had published letters placing
it in that light. (Hear, hear.) The Russian navy was
exceedingly formidable on paper; but hon. gentlemen
forgot that the porta of Russia were froxen up for nearly
half the year, and that English, French, and Dutch naval'
officers who had visited them declared that the Russian '
ships were the least efficient war-vessels in the world. In
the Russian navy there were 4 ships of the line rated at
120 guns, but Sir William Symonds thought that they
were rated much higher than they ought to be. Of
three 1 was in the Baltic and 3 were in the Black Sea.
There were 6 of 110 guns, 3 in the Baltic, and 3 in the
Sarah bta ; 16 of 84 glans in the Baltic ; 19 of 74 guns, 12 in
Its Babb, aad 7 in the Black Sea • 48 frigates of 44 and 60
gem 111. the Baltic, and 18 in the Black Seat about 60
Beaton vessels ; 22 steamboat* is all, greaten& mull (about
hair of which were built in England) ; atheirele, three.
berths of whom had never been alTh_and many of whom,
Wig Menke.. held emmmiselene le give them reek ;
IT emplane ef the Arm dem; 11-17• The seism& ; and 211
Nsfailemete. The number et tens decreed by ukase for the
Ma MS Ina au.tatilln, hut at bast 40,000 of this number
he& net been tat is the ma, and, according to his
R the elrseeMt7l estantilk skill and less nautical
aperiusar MI even the seams en heard the Russian ships
wars sanmaareed as destitute of maritime knowledge,
and unsay without experiment In the art of gummy.
The next formidable fleet woe that of France, and he ad-1 , matted that comparatively it was a formidable fleet. It
tamthhee°lin:hetedeLlOW)o.2isol6thesfhZ,t.loOf line,thofethe 2n rl,llslsisotingf the 3rd, anadiPss of
(15 of the Ist, 20 of the 2nd, and
16 of the MO, 40 corvettes (20 of the let, m 420 of the 2nd),

HI of 601Itons, and 30 tenders ; 102 seism skips,
10 Sign of from 450 to 800 horse power, Weervettes from
XV to 300 horse power, 30 mitten from 160 to 200 horsepower,
20 mitten 120 home power and upwards ; told, 226 ships
edthelhas sad 102 steam ships, 328. The preceding Is the
slimier of *hips of war, ineladleg steam shim which was
decreed 's constitute the French navy by the ordiaance of
the 22ed November, 1846; bat the whole number are not
yet completed. By the mmenneement of the marine dm
emirate; it appears that 1a the 1&50, the Preach go-
imminent w7eflEpased irry in commission 23 ships
If the line, 31 tee, 96 earteller, 47 brigs, and that
other. win y ready in the dockyards and in the
porta. The Mel stipend here for the French navy, including
that of die mod amounted to 4,257,9761.
The navy ef Iteds 2 ships of the line of 74,
6 friperd CI WU, lof 44._ 2of 42, 1 of 32 guns), cor-
vettes., CIO 80, lof 24, of 16 mins) 8 brigs (1 of 20,
1 el 111. 11 of 18, 3 of 12), 15 steamers, from 40 to 330-
hares row, carrying 6 to 12 guns, galleys from 1 to 3
rivilkeineretTrounport boats of
shia gun
le-eatteihp, tel,imgre4 brigs.
shim 7 sleam-ships, 140-horse power, 3 transport ships,
3feloca
guard
c
Aanp6ld 3 bra.
The navytocarryl of po
6guns,rtweegwa n
orderedcosited of 2 pa o
to be
ships
in
f
80 as, 6 frigates of 50, lof 54, 8 corvettes, from 20 to
24,11 bely of 10 to 20, 7 schooners, 2 steam-ships. The
naval eleength of Sardinia was-frigates 4, corvettes 4,
brigantines I, brigs 1, steamers 6, &c., in all 60 ships of
war, carafes 900 guns. The force consisted of 2,860,
including. ennasander•in-chief 1, admirals 2, captains
of daps 7.satsains of frigates 8. The navy of
the awe was composed of 1 ship of 80
guns, 5 'frigenis, 60 and 44, I corvette of 22, bomb ship,
2 • 6 brigantine et 20, 2 galleys of 14 ; total, 481 guns. 6
steam chips of 1/011.6orse power, 2 carrying mortars and 4
cannon; 1 etesinee of 6 guns, 1 of 180-horse power, 1 of
120, 2 of 50-hose pewee, 1 of 40-horse power, 2 of 300
horse power (in building). Officers 113, surgeons 76,
pilob 100, shipwrights 12, total, 301 ; marine constables
3,468, marines 1,650, labourers 70, mechanics 21, tele-
I graphists 150. The navy of Greece consisted of 2 corvettes
I of 26 guns each, 2 steamers of from 1 to 6, 1 packet boat, 3
brigs of 12 guns, 10 of 2 guns, 7 schooners from 2 to 10
guns 2of 6 guns, 1 of 2 guns, J cutters from 2to 4 guns,
1 yacht, 12 sloops with a total of 22 guns, 2 barques of 2
guns each. The Turkish navy consisted of 2 skips of the
line of 120 guns, 2of 100 gam, 3of 90, 1 of 81, 1 of 80, I
frigate of 56 guns 1 of 44, 3or 4 sloops, 4or 6 steamers.
The navy of Sweden was 10 ships, 8 frigates, 8 brigs and
corvettes, 6 schooners, 8 mortar boats, 22 transports, 256
gun boats, &c., 12 steamers; total, 330. The navy
of Norway amounted to 2 frigates, 3 corvette., 1 brig,
5 schooners 4 steamers, 4 steam packets, 132 gun
boats, 5,000 seamen from 16 to 30 years of age.
The Danish navy consisted of 5 ships of the line of 84, 1 of 66,
2 frigates of 48, 3 of 46, 2 of 40, 1 corvette of 26, 4 of 20, 2
brigs of 16, 2 of 12, 1 schooner of 8, 2 of 6, 1 cutter of 6, 1 of
4,2 of 2 ; total, 29 ships, 996 guns, 18 mortar boats, 15
mortar barques, 41 gunboats, 4 gunships, 4 steamers. Hol-
land, considering its resource++, possessed a considerable
fleet. It bad 2 first class of 84 guns, 5 second of 74, 3
frigates of 60 and 54, 12 of 44 and 38, 2 of 28, 12 corvettes of
28 and 26, 3 of 22 and 20, 17 brigs and pscketsbips of 18, 14,
and 12, 24 galleys of 14 and 3, 1 corvette for naval instruc-
tion, 7 first class steamb ets, 7 second, 4 third class, 1 ad-
miral, 3 vice-admirals, 20 captains of the line, 31
captains of frigates, 292 lieutenants, 139 midshipmen,
85 medical officers, 60 administrative officers, 5,692 men and
boys, 1,521 manes, and 400 seamen at Java, East Indies.
Such was the gate of the whole naval force of Europe, and
it showed how weak all ether powers were when compared
with the naval strength of this country. The navy of
Brasil consisted of 2 frigates of Stand 30, 5 corvettes (in all),
98 gun', 2 brigs of 18, 10 brig schooners of 68, 3 ketches of
13, '2 schooners of 4, 5 gun-boats, 6 steamers. Disarmed-
-1 frigate, 2 cutters, 1 barque, 2 steamers, 6 transports.
The United States navy consisted of 10 ships of the line, 12
first-class frigates, several steam-ships, &c. He made this
statement to show that this country was by far the greatest
naval power in the world, and if they were wise they
would not proceed to lay down new keels for two or three
years, for such were the improvements that were taking
place, especially in regard to the rigging of ships and the
appliance of machinery to the working of the sails, that
what they were now doing would probably be rendered
obsolete in a short time. Sir Wm. Symonds was now build-
ing ships that would astonish those who had been accus-
tomed to work ships in the old fashion. He thought the
time was come when they should reform their dockyards.
He thought that the new university-the Crystal Palace-
would do more to cement the peace of nations than all their
naval or military preparations. (Hear, hear.)
Admiral BOIYLES said that he could not place much
confidence in the statements of the hon. gentleman who had
lust spoken respecting tho naval force ot foreign countries
it ho was not more correct with regard to them than he was
with respect to their own navy. (Hear.) He thought the
best way of preventing war was to be prepared for it; and
that what they had to look to was, whether they were prepared
for a defensive war, if unfortunately it should arise. He
would beg of honourable members who spoke and thought
like the hon. gentleman, to read the history of 1792. They
flattered themselves that because France in that year was
in a very embarnased state she would not go to war. But
the very next year they had to engage in war with France,
who was far better prepared than they were, and it was
only alter a considerable expenditure, and after several of
their merchantmen had been captured, that they were able
to protect their coasts, their colonies, and their com-
merce. (Hear, hear.) These facts ought to have some
influence on the house. (Loud cheers.) What was now
taking place at the Cape should be a warning to them how
they left themselves unprepared to meet any contingencies
that might arise. (Neer, hear.) With respect to stores, it
was true that tremendous reductions had been made by the
right hon. hart. (Sir J. Graham). But when Lord Minto
succeeded to the Admiralty he was obliged to lay out large
sums of money in the purchase of stores. (Hear.) Ropes
were not fit for use till they were three years made,
and it was indispensable that sails should be kept ready.
Sir G PECIIELL admitted the efficiency of the
British navy, but complained of the vexatious waste and
mismanagement with which it was conducted.
Mr. HUME said that we had 155 sailing vessels and 12
steamers in 1835, and that we had, in 1848, 160 sailing
vessels and 96 steamers. Therefore there had been all that
addition of steamers without any reduction of sailing ves-
sels. The question for the house now to consider was.
whether there were not more stores than were wanted or
required for the exigencies of the country. It was for the
house to declare by their vote whether they would sanction
the waste going on in the dockyards.
After a few words from Admiral BOWLIII,
Sir F. BARING said that, as compared with the years
1848 and 1849, the reduction on this vote was 310,0004
The hon. member for Montrose had observed that we were
going on building sailing vessels and steamers ; but, since
1849, the Admiralty had not ordered to be laid down ono
single ship. All their orders had been for screw steamers.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HENLEY could not support the amendment,
although he had voted with the hon. member for Montrose
to reduce the amount of wages in the dockyards.
Mr. COBDEN said that if there was one subject more
than another of an important character it was the consump-
tion and expenditure in our dockyards. There was a ge-
neral impression that our fleet already in existence was suf-
ficient, and that we might go on with it without any danger
or insecurity to the country. If they could not do that,
they could not make any sensible reduction in their expen-
diture. Let them not go whining about the country
and talking about the excessive burdens of taxa-
tion ; let them, if that was their intention, bear it
like men, and tell the country at once that
there was to be no reduction. (Hear, hear.) Now there
was one subject, in relation to the great expenditure for
stores, not touched upon hitherto. Had hon. members
seen the great quantity of stores we had sold during the
last few months? We had sold nearly 1,600,0004 ; and a
large proportion of those had consisted of naval stores.
Now, in that 1,600,0001. of stores for which we had taken
credit, there had been a loss of 2,000,0004 at least ,• and
this was a very moderate estimate of the loan. (Hear.)
Some allusion had been made in the course of the debate to
the Crystal Palace in Hyde-park, and it had been referred
to as a guarantee against future wars. They might see a
proof in this great building that they went to an mine-
esesery outlay of stores for the purposes of the navy. They
had seen 13 acres of ground covered with a magnificent
erection in about six months, and b one firm. He pat it
to hon. gentlemen if we were suddenly threatened with
war, and
.Ithe national spirit were roused by some unjust
aggreeiion, and the government invited the co-operation
and the competition of our innumerable private dock-yards,
foundries, sail-works, and hemp works, in order to produce
the necessary materiel for the war, whether we would not
immediately be put in possession, to an conceivable limit,
of all the articles we might require ? (Hear, hear.) With
the facilities which we possessed in capital, and in railway
communication, and with the aid which a government could
at any moment obtain from private enterprise, the vast
accumulation of stores which took place under our present
system involved needless waste and met. (Hear, hear.)
He hoped his hon. friend would take the sense of the house
on the subject.
The house then divided-
Per the amendment 3B
Against
The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote was of 298,3891.-" New works, improve-
ments, and repairs."
Mr. W. WILLIAMS objected to the extension of the
dockyards in this costly manner.
Mr. HUME believed this was one of the met useless es-
tablishments that ever was known, and as an instance of
that improvidence and waste they began it with a powder
magazine in the centre, which had to be removed at an ex-
pense of 97,6271. He wished to know whether that in-
cluded the purchase of the land.
Sir F. T. BARING said they were now only carrying on
works which had been begun by a former government. he
sum for the purchase of the land was voted em a former
occasion.

Mr. COBDEN said a large steam hags had recently
being constructed at Portsmouth, and it appeared desirable
that some further experience should be pined as to the
necessity of steam basins before another million and a
quarter woe 'speeded in the construction of another basin
of the same kind. The total estimate now amounted to
1,225,000!. He asked whether it was intended to vote that
million and a quarter without a fresh estimate.
Sir F.T. BARING said the question was calmly discussed
by the committee, and they stated that it was desirable to go
on with the works. The estimate was now fully before the
house. He had every reason to believe that that estimate
would fully cover the expenditure. Tho majority of the
committee were of opinion that the works ought to be
proceeded with.
Mr. COBDEN said they were of opinion that they should
be partially proceeded with. This steam basin involved a
great deal more than the cost of construction. If it was carried
' on in the way proposed, there was to be an outlay of 80,0001.

pre aka= be mope. He objected to establish a (large
manufactory and to kis, op a great number of skilled
workmen at a huffs sarease. They were laying oat this
imp aim ler decks and basins, forgetting that commercial
men required no atoms docks or basins. They brought
their vessel. to &rimer wall and put their machinery in. It
Mieedto him they were completely wasting the money,
,eirnfact, if they had a California without any trouble
og expense in getting the gold, they could not act with
greater prodigality.
After some further discussion,
Sir F. BARING said that this estimate had been framed
to meet the objection taken before the committee as to the
mode of drawing up the estimate.. He had proposed the
whole of the original vote as it might be required, and if he
had followed the old practice the effect would have been
that he should have concealed from the committee a large
sum of money. He thought he had stated as plainly as
man could state a fact, that he lied not the slightest inten-
tion of setting up the factory, but occasions might arise—a
time of war, for instance, which might render the building
necessary, and he could not bind the government against
doing that which might be emential in times of emergency.
Mr. HENLEY objected that the government might say
to the house, whenever it was convenient to carry out this
project, that they had had the estimate before them year by
year, and therefore it was impossible to see what objection
could be made to it. . .

Mr. GEACIL asked for an explanation of a sum of 4,000/.
which he saw in the vote was to be applied towards the
building of a church at Keyham ?
Sir F. BARING said that in order to compare the votes
for the years it was necessary to put in the sum voted in the
lastyear, and last year there had been a discussion on this vote.
Many of these items had been put in i n contemplation of the
proposed establishment at Keyham.
The MASTER of the ROLLS said there was a very
large population there, and the church was of great use.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. (MACH said, as a new member, ho must express
his opinion that the house was going on a wrong system,
which mast lead to inextricable confusion.

Mr. HUME asked what became of the revenue of Gay-
raltar

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
by law it should come into the Exchequer, but practically
it did nut do so. (Hear, hear.) It was chiefly expended on
works in the colony.
Mr. HUME said that 10,0001. was put down as wanted
this year at Bermuda, including 5,0001. for the breakwater.
He wished to have some explanation of this.
Sir F. BARING said there had been an understanding
that about 10,0001. should be voted every year, for the sake
of keeping the convicts employed.
The vote was then agreed to, as was the following:
26,0001. for medicines and medical stores.
The next vote was 16,939/. fur miscellaneous services, of
which Sir F. BARING gave some explanation, in answer to
a question from Mr. Hu KS.
Sir G. PECHELL complained that no account was given
of the slave vessels that had been purchas.d.
Sir F. BARING said the Admiralty had authorised the
commodore on the station to purchase any vessels which he
might deem suitable lot tenders.
Sir G. PECIIELL said he could find nothing to warrant
a vote of 1,0001. for this purpose.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS asked for an explanation of the
item of 4721. for voyages of the royal family.
Sir F. BARING said it was connected with her Majesty's
voyage when she went to Ireland, when it was necessary to
hire some vessels.

In. answer to a question from Mr. Hume,
Sir F. BARING stated that sixteen clerks at the Admi-
ralty had been dispensed with. As the situations fell vacant
they had not filled them up.
Mr. PETO said he wished to impress on the government
the necessity of giving all officers employed in steam navi-
gation an opportunity of becoming practically acquainted
with the machinery of those vessels. He mentioned an in-
stance which had come to his knowledge of great ignorance
in a person so employed.
Sir F. BARING was understood to say that the Ad-
miralty were desirous to give all the facilities in their power
for the acquisition of such knowledge.
Mr. II IINIE said he saw a sum of 1961. set down for ser-
vices rendered to her Majesty's vessels, which reminded
him that her Majesty's navy demanded compensation for
services rendered merchant vessels in distress, which was
most discreditable. No such system prevailed in the French
or American navies. The decision of • court in Bombay
lately was very properly against such allowances, a claim in
that particular case being made fur 3,0001.
Sir F. T. BARING said as the hon. gentleman (Mr.
Fiume) had signified his intention, on a former occasion, to
bring that matter before the house he (Sir F. T. Baring)
would reserve explanation till then.
The vote was then agreed to, as also were the following:
488,4521., naval clerks' pay and allowances; 169,6891., civil
pensions and allowances ; and 143,2004 to defray the ex-
penses of freights for victualling troops under the ordnance
department.
Mr. Herz and Mr. W. WILLIAMS having objected to
proceeding at that hour (one o'clock) with the next vote of
496,0001. for the Post-office packet service,
The CIIAIRMAN reported progress, and obtained leave
to sit again this day.
FEES ON PROCEEDINGS BEFORE JUSTICES

(IRELAND) BILL.
This bill was discharged.
BRITISH WHITE HERRING FISHERY.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
PHARMACEUTICAL CHEMISTS.
On the motion of Mr. J. Batt, leave was given to bring
in a bill fur regulating the qualifications of pharmaceutical
chemists, and for other purposes connected with the prac-
tice of pharmacy.
In repl to Mr. HENLEY,
Sir G. GItEY said that he consented to the introduction
of the bill, but he did not thereby mean to pledge himself
to support it in its future stages.
NEW FOREST.
The following members were nominated the select com-
mittee on the New Forest Deer Removal Bill :—Lord Sey-
mour, Sir William Gibson Craig, Viscount Duncan, Mr.
H. Drummond, Mr. Compton, Lord Charles Wellesley, and
five to be added by the committee of selection.