The Express.
London, England, 1848-04-08 00:00:00

thought it would be necessary to ernisliner the clause as to
spoken treason in committee.
Mr. W. J. FOX observed that it was not surprising that,
in the discussion of this bill, it had been made so exclusively
an Irish question, though it was to be regretted, inasmuch
as it had drawn the attentiou of the house from the most
important to the tenet important port-on of the measure.
The least important par: was that which assimilated the law
of Ireland to that of England. To that there could be no
ranee able objection. If the Lord Lieutenant required
further powers to enable hint to put down sedition and trea-
son, which had shown themselves in the most unmistake-
able and disgusting form, such powers could scarcely be I
given in a less objectionable way than by assimilating the
law of Ireland to that of England. But the part of the bill
which attracted his attention, and which gave it its peculiar
character, was the infringement of that liberty of speech
which had kith. rtes been the hoist of Englishmen, as the
sateguard of their hinnies. There was no difficulty now in
punishing those who invited others to the commission of
crime in Ireland as in England; but once let it be the
law that spoken words which, though not in-
tended for that purpose. might be construed to tend
to impair the freedom of discussion in ither or both houses
of parliament, and to over iwe their deliberations, might sub-
ect the speaker to transportation for seven years or for life:
let this be the law, and no man would be sale to address •
public meeting at a time of political excitement. (Hear.)
And it was at such times that men did address their fellow-
Citizens, when their feelings were roused by some invnsion of
their privileges, or were stimulated with the desire to extern'
them. It was then multitudes were brought together, and
men's feelings were roused into that ardent state that it eras
morally impossible so to weigh every word and syllabi, ns
to be free from the misrepresentation of an ignorant reporter,
or a malignant spy. (Hear.) The best reporters were
liable to micakes, and they could scarcely expect any very
great accuracy trona the reports of half-informed reporters
employed at such • time by the police. If such a law was
passed he should recommend every man to write his speech
to prevent misconitruction. During the agitation on the
Belong Bill he had heard language from gentlemen, now
members of that house, arid who obtained their seats by the
fervency end boldness with which they spoke,
and some of them members of the government,
which, if uttered now—this bill being the low—would
subject tnem to transportation for seven years or fur life.
Were the people, then, to be deprived by such a law as this
of their just privileges, to be left utterly defenceless, and to
be placed beyond the pale of the constitution ? lie sincerely
trusted that this encroachment on their liberties hod not
beenseriously andeleliberately introduced by her Majesty's gin
vernment ; that they had only been led astray by looking to
those insane speeches of Irish demagogues, and that in
attempting to remedy that evil they would not inflict a still
greater mischief upon this country. (Rear, hear.) It WAS
public meetings that made public opinion known and re-
spected. In fact, public meetings and the freedom of speech
were lust as much as anything else part and parcel of the
British constitution, and one of the lest portions that we
ought to consent to meddle with or destroy. If they
took any freely collected public meeting in this
country, they would find that truth and justice,
and propriety and moderetion, prevailed over all the
opposite qualities. Re therefore relied with confidence
in the decisions of such assemblies. indeed he had himself
often heard them rebuke language tending to violence, and
he believed that in the continuance untouched of the power
to hold public meetings, whatever might be the ease with
respect to Ireland, they would be continuing and preserving
something as a balance against the inequalities of our laws.
(Near, hear.) The noble lord on a former evening sinks
of the events of the continent having given rise in this coon
try to guilty desires and guilty efforts ; but the noble lord
might have said that those events had excited honourable
desires and honourable efforts as well, amongst which he
(Mr. Fox) took to be the desire on the part of the working-
names, who had far more intelligence and morality than lie
feared they got credit for (hear, heor), of having for them-
selves • politicalsUtusniad of being free themselves while they
heard the shouts of newly-acquired freedom from other coun-
tries. The attainmentor that desire, at which, before • long
period elapsed, they would and must arrive, and the advan
tages to be thereby arrived at, would ho must say h,ise
formed the subject of a much better bill than that now sub.
mitted to the house, while it would prove a more powerful
enactment—leaving the law written on the heart—fur the
security of her Majesty's crown. (Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—Tee hon. gentleman has so far bsen
error as to have passed his censure on the proposition of
my right hon. friend before seeing the bill. Re has spoken
of the danger of fixing • punishment to words, and of the
novelty of introducing so heavy a punishment for words that
may have • tendency to overawe the houses of parlia-
ment. But it is totally different to condemn
men for words that may be violent, or mis
chievous, or seditious, and words that have for their
object either to depose the sovereign, to excite to the levying
of war, or to induce persons to apply for aid from foreign
countries, in order to effect a change in the form of govern.
ment. The act of 1706 condemns the using words or pnblic
writing exciting to the levying of war, for the purpose of
inducing the sovereign to change his measures, or fur the
purpose of overawing the houses of parliament. But that
is • very different offence from os conning the houses of par
liament, which admits of abuse end misrepresentar ion.
Direct incitement to levy war, whether with the view of
putting • personal restraint upon the sovereign, or of over-
awing the houses of parliament, is of itself a grave and
substantive offence. The hon. gentleman entirely omitted
the question of levying war, as if it was no part of the
measure. I hope he will therefore suspend his judgment,
so far as not to condemn that part of the bill until he sees
it. I admit that there is danger in extending penalties of this
kind to words spoken; but we have to consider that formerly
the penalties of high treason were often awarded to a very few
words supposed to express a treasonable intention. Now,
and especially of late, instead of secret conspiracies and
councils in the dark, by which a monarchy was to be over-
throw.), it has become the habit with those who hope to
compass the destruction of the monarchy and the deposition
of the sovereign to speak to large masses of the people and
use words exciting to the levying of war and the use of
arms for the purpose of overbearing the legitimate aurhority
of the country, and thereby to accomplish their mischievous
and dangerous ends. When the male of warfare and of
overturning governments is changed, I think it becomes
necessary to take some other course than that which has
hitherto been taken to prevent it; and I say it is
far better to apply the punishment of felony to those
offences, than to make the act in all respects similar
to that of 1796, and to apply to them the penalties of high
treason. It may, I know, still be argued that the punise-
meat is severe; but at the same time 1 think that those who
actually incur the penalties of treason, arid who by being
brought to levy war are subjected to the penalty of death
under the act of Edward 111., may not after all be in point
of fact so guilty as those who have instigated them to rebel-
lion. (Hear, hear.) I will not continue my argument upon
this subject until the house has the opportunity of seeing the
bill. The hon. gentleman who spoke last says that the only
allusion I made to the events of the continent was that those
events had inspired guilty desires and guilty efforts on the
part of those who were seeking to disturb the peace of this
metropolis. It would not have been becoming in me on
that occasion to enter into any comments upon those
events. But 'litho hon. gentleman has so far misunderstood me,
I must say that while my feeling and contemplation of those
events is a mixed feeling, I cannot but rejoice at any portion
of them which gives to nations that have not hitherto en-
joyed them the benefits of the inestimable blessings of a
national representation, of political liberty, and of a free
press. (Cheers.) Ido not now wish to comment upon these
events; for I feel that I should he liable to much misrepre-
sentation if I did. There is certainly one part of them
which cannot but be viewed with joy by every Englishman,
although another part is caleulatsd to give rise to apprehen-
sion. I trust that the filial issue of these events may be in.
creased liberty for the continent of Europe. I can-
not have been a member of tnis house, or a
subject of this realm, without being delighted to see
that the benefits which this country DM so long
enjoyed should be extended to other countries; but when
the hon. gentleman speaks of benefits still to be derived by
I the people of this couutry, and of honourable desires that are
yet to be satisfied, I must say, that much of what has been
done on the continent— much of what has been carried there
at the expense of civil contest and bloodshed, an 1 of the sus-
pension of trade and industry—much of what has been pur-
chased at those enormous sacrifices, though not too dearly,
has been long enjoyed by the favoured people of this coun-
try. (Cheers.) When, therefore, lam told that the people
of this country have much to encourage them in what has
taken place on the continent. I say that cur position is such,
thatmorethan 150 years ago we notonlyobtained a constitu-
tion, but had the foundation laid for other benefits and advan-
tages which were to be Pained in the gr..dual progress
of human society—in the light of literature, the formatie
of public opinion, and the advance of humanity, which taugh,
men better how to prize and secure the blessings of equal
rights and common civilisation. (Cheers.) Ido say, there-
fore, respecting our progress of late years and in future years,
having obtained that foundation, and having by a free press
and public discussion, which I believe this bill will not im-
pair, and by elementary representation, obtained the means
of improving all these advantages, that we have no need to
enter into any bloody or doubtful struggle, but may rely
upon • constant and peaceable advancement in public
affairs, and upon the constant progress of liberal opinions
towards perfection. (Cheers.)
The house then divided.—nor the motion 283
Against it 2l-259
Sir G. GREY said be should move the second reading of
the bill on Monday, and also the suspension of the standing
orders, that the bin might go through committee on the
same day. (Cheers.)
Mr. litiME hoped that, whatever were the opinions of
hon. gentlemen opposite, who cheered so loudly, time would
be given to see what were the provisions of this bill. The
house had decided that the people ought not to petition for
what they wanted. (No, no.) This very bill would pre-
vent their expressing their opinions (No, no) they
would be subject to—(Loud cries of "No, no," and
" Order.") _ _

LANDLORD AND TENANT (IRELAND) BILL.
Sir W. SOhtERVILLE, in moving the second reading of
this bill, said that if the house consented to the second resit.
ing, it was his intention, in obedience to the generally-ex-
pressed wish of the Irish members, to refer the bill to a
select committee. (Hear.)
The bill was then reads second time.
On the motion that the bill be referred to a select com-

mittee,
Hr. OSBORNE said he had only voted for the second
reading on the express understanding that he should be un-
fettered in discussing the clauses in committee; and he be-
lieved many hon. members had acted with the same view.
The subject was full of difficulties; but it was the duty of
the house to strive to conquer them ; and be believed this
was perfectly ppossible. The cast•iron men of the political
economy school could not, 011 their own principle, oppose this
mecum. (A _laugh.) Three measuree hoeing the same'