The Express.
London, England, 1851-03-01 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 1, 1851.

M communication between as. Since we parted in the
Wane of last summer, at the close of the last session of par-
laiment, I had had no communication on any subject with
tag right hon. friend. In a distant part of the country. I
d the excitement which prevailed throughout the
kingdom on this subject. I thought the alarm and indig-
nation which prevailed so widely was unfounded and irra-
tional. I certainly felt no alarm myself, and any
inclination which I had towards indignation gave way to
feelings mote akin to contempt. (Hear, hear.) But
my lords, when I saw at public meetings persons attending
who I never eructed to find there—(e Hear, hear,"
from Lord Brougham)—l undoubtedly became more
curious to know what was the opinion of my right hon.
friend, and others with whom I had been in the habit
of acting, and for whose opinion I felt great re-
spect. However, it appeared to me that this was
not a subject upon which I could, with propriety,
venture to question my right honourable friend ; and, in
point of fact, until the day before the meeting of parlia-
ment, I had not the mint distant conception of what his
opinion was. He called on me, I believe on the very morn-
ing of the meeting of parliament, and to my great satisfac-
tion I found his opinion, in all points, completely coincided
with my own. My lords, this was the ease, I believe, with'.
all thew noble and hon. persons with whom I had formerly
been connected in official life. Until the day before yester-
day I was entirely ignorant of the opinions, with one
exception, of my former colleagues, and at this
moment I am entirely ignorant of the opinions of
some of them on this subject. I wish to date this to show
that, whatever may be the result of these opinion., it is not
in cuasequence of any concert ; but that we have arrived at
our opinions perfectly independently and separately. My
lord., it is true that the noble lord to whom was entrusted
the formation of this administretion, did propose to us ma-
terial alterations and modification. of the bill to which I
have now alluded, and upon which we so decidedly disagreed.
No doubt these alterations might have removed some of our
objections to the provisions of the measure itself, but it
is obvious that such alterations must have excited great dise
approlestion and disappointment among all those who re-
presented the popular feeling on this subject, so much
excited in hostility to the proceedings of the court of Rome ;
while at the same time, the very remnant of the bill would
have been equally regarded as penal, unjust, and offensive
by the great body of her Majesty's Roman catholic subjects.
We, therefore, felt that it was impossible for us to
make ourselves parties to a measure from which
we could not anticipate any good, and from which we
thought we had reason to expect very many serious evils.
My lords, on the failure of the attempt of the noble lord to
form this administration, her Majesty was pleased to send
for me, and to request me to undertake the task. My lords,
I am fully aware of my own imperfections, and how little
able I should be, at any time, and especially at such a
difficult moment as the present, to conduct the affairs
of this great empire, in such a manner as her
Majesty's subjects have a right to expect. Nevertheless,
there were circumstances in the actual condition of the
country which might possibly have led me to make the
attempt ; but after what your lordships have heard of my
sentiments, end with the knowledge which I poweseed that
a measure of penal legislation had been introduced into the
Houle of Commons, with the consent of a great majo-
rity of the members of that house ; and believine,
se I hare full reason to believe, that a majority
as large of your lordships in hie house enter-
tained the same views on this subject, your lordship.' will
sot be surprised to learn that I humbly entreated her Ma-
jesty. to permit me to decline the distinction which her
grievous favour would have bestowed on me. I felt, in the
}resent state of things, it would have been perfectly hope-
me to attempt to enforce those views which I enter-
tain, and from which I determined not to recede; and I
also felt it must kindle a flame of religious discord
throughout the country, and would inevitably increase
the religious animosity and bitterness which exists. My
garde, the opinion I expressed may be contrary to that of
very many of your lordships ; nevertheless, I entertain a
asatident belief that a great change will, at no distant time
take place in this respect ; and whether this he so or nut, I
trust year lord:Alpe will give me credit for the sincerity of
my convictions--(hear, hear)—and the deep sense of duty
undereirhich I acted. I believe nothing would base induced
see to follow the course I adopted hat I not been eouvineed
that I acted according to the dictates of the soundest princi-
ples of wisdom and justice. (Cheers.)
Lord STANLEY—My lords, it new becomes my duty to
avail myself of this the earliest opportunity with which I
have been favoured, consietently with my duty, of explain-
ing to your lordships the portionof this transaction in which
I bare been engaged, and which I was precluded, by an
imperative sense of duty, in the absence of any permission
en the part of her Majesty to that effect, from explaining
en Monday last. I must commence, my lords, at a period
somewhat antecedent to that at which my noble friend be-
gan. My lords, her Majesty's late administration haying
come—the greater portion of them—to a determination to
resign thief offices on Friday last, and the cabinet hissing
anticipated, although unable to act upon it, the assent of
the noble marquis opposite, who was not then in town,
on Saturday morning, I believe, • normal announce-
ment was made to her Majesty that the whole
of her late adviser, had unanimously tendered their re-
signations; and her Majesty having sent for me, on that °ern-
eion did me the honour of stating, that looking to me as
possessing the confidence of a large party in this and the
other house of parliament, her Majesty called upon me to
tender my advice as to the course mod desirable to he pur-
sued under the circumstances. My lords, I took the liberty,
la the first instance, of requesting to be informed by her
Majesty upon what ground the resignation of her late ad-
visers hail taken piece ; and I learnt from her Majesty that
the grounds which had been stated to her for that reeigna-
lion ware the same, in substance, as those which were stated
In the other house of parliament, and in this house by the
sable marquis opposite—namely, that at no very distant
period a motion had been brought forward by Mr. Disraeli
In the House of Commons, which had reference to the general
distress of the agriculturists, and which had been nega-
tived by so small a majority as to lead the government to
the conclusion that they did not peewee the continued con-
fidence of the house ; and that opinion was rather strength-
ened by the fact that on Thursday night last, on the eve of
bringing on the budget, they had been left in a minority,
by the adverse vote., of their ordinary supporters, of two to
use, a great portion of the party, which fur brevity I will
call " the protectionist party," having been absent on that
isecaeion. I must stop for a moment in my narrative, my
bawds, to express some doubt on my own part—not, how-
ever, inconsistent with the entire respect which I entertain
for the noble marquis opposite—some doubt, my lords, that
the two circumstances to which I have adverted led ulti-
mately and finally to the somewhat abrupt termination
of
the government. I must express a conviction, that
this was not the only, and I must doubt whe-
ther it was the principal cause of the 'voile-
aatien of her Majedy's ministers. Mv lords, I cannot but
think that that important—that all-important question—
which has been adverted to by the noble earl above me in
manner and tone which does credit to the frankness and
sincere expression of his opinion—l mean the mode of
dealing with that most difficult question which is commonly
spoken of under the term of the papal aggression—had much
to do with the resolution to which Cie government came. I
on not, of course, in the secrets of the cabinet, and I am
legend to amino that the cabinet agreed on a measure
which, as • cabinet, they intended to support—bull believe
saw before them, in regard to that question, great
ditdcalties un one side and the other—a state of protestant
tiding excited in this kingdom by the letter of
the Prime Minister, not less than by the act of
aggression itself—driving them to extreme* which
they were unwilling to be led into —and, on the other hand,
a feeling existed in the minds of a large portion of their
own supporters, including some of the immediate and closest
adherents of the government, very much in accordance
with the views stated by the noble earl above me, that this
was, a question which on no occasion they would support.
I cannot divest my mind, my lord*, of a strong conviction
that this measure was in a great degree the cause of the
government coming to the efleiChelioll that they were unable
to carry on the business of the (Hear, bear.) I
. . .
then'

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORI/S.—FRIDAT, FEN. 2s.
The LORD Cnauctua.on took his seat at 5 o'clock.
APPOINTMENT OF A VICE-CHANCELLOR BILL.
This bill was read a third time, sad passed.
THE MINISTERIAL CRISIS.
The Marquis of I.ANSDOWNE, after presenting a peti-
tion, said —My lords, when, on Monday last, it was my
duty to address a few words to your lordships, I certainly
did so in the confident expectation, and I may he permitted
to add, as tar as I am personally concerned, in the 'in-
sets hope, that it was the lest occasion on which
my public duty might require me to address this
house on behalf of those of my colleagues with
whom I have been recently connected. Circumstances,
however, compel me again to address your lordship with
regard to the events which have recently occurred, since
that period. I then stated a fact which it was important
your lordships should be acquainted with, namely--at that
time my noble friend Lord John Russell was, by the com-
mand of her Majesty, engaged in an attempt to reconstruct
the administration, of which he been the head. My
lords, at the thne that I made that statement to the how*
Lord John Ito--ell was engaged in that duty, in communi-
sation with a noble lord—.l highly-respected and distin-
guished mi lois r of this house, and with a right hon.
baronet6dv, a mint distinguished member of the other
brow of p it, for the purpose of endeavouring to
effect that n et.O.trilt thin upon a larger basis. But I have
Cow to state to your lordships that before that night
had closed those attempts bad failed. I need not
state the grounds on which that failure took place ;
I am anxious only to lay before pour lordships the facts in
the order in which they have occarnall, and to make you
acquainted with tin' present state of affairs. After the
failure of that attempt so made by my noble friend Lord
John Russ, 11, a I iiminunieation was made to the noble earl
to whom I has, alluded for the purpose of ascertaining
whet!,, r he was able to undertake the formation of a nii-
nistry. My lord, upon her Majesty being informed that
he was wit, and recollecting that the noble hard
site hail only st.itol. at the conference with which
ha was honoured by her Majesty, that he was
not then prepare ml to undertake the construction
of a government, her Majesty determined upon
again inviting the noble lord, after the circumstances
which had occurred, to undertake that important duty.
The noble loot did not hesitate to undertake to attempt it.
My lords. the noble hint so undertook it on Tuesday, and
only two day. elapsed before the noble lord communicated
to her Majesty his inability to succeed inthat attempt. That
communication need not have been made until this very
morning. from the eircuinstinee of the adjournment of the
house until t..-.lay ; but the noble lord lost no time in cone-
=owe:ding this fart to her Majesty at soon as he was enabled
to do so. My lords, that communication was made yester-
day afternoon. Wis.st I have now to state to your lordships,
and all I oan state, is that I have myself this morning,
by her Msjisty's command, attended upon her Majesty, and
that I found it was her natural desire, in a state of things
so novel, and almost unpreeedented in the annals of this
sountry,att. r snaking every effort which she could make, and
which it was in her power to employ, in the construction of
a government, by consulting those persons best calm
listed from their position to undertake such a task, and they
having Mai.l in accomplishing the object, I say I found she
was naturally desirous of pausing before she takes a further
Istep. After informing herself of the opinions of others she
is desirous to obtain the advice and opinion in this unfore-
seen state of things, of a noble and illustrious duke, one of
the great ornaments of this house, and one with whom on
other is:claims her Majesty has conferred in momenta of
difficulty. (('heirs) '1 hat noble duke has been summoned
to attend her Maj-sty, and under those circumstances, I
am only state my hope that this house will ac-
quie,ce in the propriety of her Majesty's view,
to consider folly and inform herself before she
takes another step in this important and delicate state of
affairs. (Ilear, hear.) I wish to leave to others to do what
they have a full right to do, and what the public may ex-
pect from them—a developruent of their views and motives ;
but I cannot sit down without expressing, at least, however
much l may lament, as I do most sincerely lament, the re-
ignite of this negotiation. I should be sorry to sit down
without ot.iting the one consolatory circurnstuwe to me
which has ate tided the result—that throughout the diffe-
rences, mad throughout the difficulties that have presented
thtmiseltes in that negotiation, those diftieulties and diffe-
rences have, in no one respect whatever, turned upon any
perional onsideration ; but they have been the natural
result of honest differences of opinion connected with im-
portant principles that created a bar in the way of these
arrangement.. but not a bar that would not in the least
diminish the personal respect and regard that the parties
mitertainial for each other. (Cheers.) This I state trim
my own knowledge in reference to that part of this transac-
tion which I have had the honour to know and been per-
mitred to mate; and I am confident it has been the case
with regard to the whole of these transactions whether ear•
rind 60 by the noble lord opposite or by the other noble and
eminent persons to whom I have alluded. (Ilear, hear.)
My lords., one word more I can only state before I sit
down, and endeavour to impress on your lordship., not
speaking upon my own behalf only, or those of the col-
leagues with whom I have been connected, but OD bcll3lf
of all public men, that while unquestionably great sacrifices
of private ea., and comfort may at particular times he justly
required from then., there is one sacrifice that they can
sever he called upon to make, because it is not only the
sacrifice of themselves, but the sacrifice of the honour and
dignity of the crown—namely, that of a prolonged attempt,
under any circumstance., to carry on the public husinesa of
this country without the promise of that amount of sup-
port which //indispensable to everypurty, and all efforts tar
the purpose of enabling them to maintain the honour of the
grown and the prompt and efficient carrying on of the
public ...nice. (Hear, hear.) Such a state of things, in
my opinion, if prolonged, can never fail to be detrimental
to the honour of the crown, injurious to the hest interests
et the country, and protitahle only to those—not the most
respectable class of politicians —who in that state of things
Ind a degree of consequence which does not naturally
belong to them —of importance they would not otherwise
base. (Hear, hear.) I am convinced that public men
have a duty to fulfil, but that duty must be performed with a
@efficient degree of independence hi ensure their perform-
ing it with success. (Hear, hear.) I have now endeavoured
to put your lordships in possession of the faceas tar as I
can, If I have failed to satisfy your lordships fully, thee*
are noble lords present who may be able to supply the de-
firieuey, and to whom I am convinced this house will listen
with respectful attention. (Cheers.)
The Earl of ABERDEEN My Lords,—The noble mar-
quis having stated the circumstances under which the
failure of the negotiations entered into by the noble lord,
Lord John Russell, for the construction of a cabinet, took
place, it now• is iurumbent on me to captain to the home
the motor,s for my conduct, and the convictions which led
Se my division My hints, on Saturday morning, when the
resignation of the noble lord and his colleagues took place,
I had the honour of being commanded by her Majesty In
attend at the Palace, and I did so in the even-
aof Saturday. and attar the honour of having
audience of • her Majesty, at which I humbly
especoied my readiness to esoperate in the reconstruction
of the government upon any conditions which should
wear t.. be consistent with my own conduct, and which
offered the prospect of promoting the interests of the puhlle
stetter. I subsequently in the presence of her Majesty met
Lord John KUPPOI and my right hon. friend Sir James
Graham. After mutual explanation.. on this subject, ex-'
pressing sentiments similar to those I have now stated. we
met Lord John Woven on the following day ; he comme-
ntated to us the basis upon which the government was to
be reconstructed; unit the principal measures he proposed.
I think we received this conununiestion from Lord
Juba Russell between four and live o'clock on Sunday.
We should have proceeded at once to consider this propel-
tion, but having been detained late at the palace that night
we could only examine it with the attention it de-
served the following day. On Monday we entered into this
. .

My lords, I then proceeded to -.elite position of parties
in the house of Commons. And, my lords, in looking at the
difficult situation in which the country is now placed, it is
not unnecessary or unimportant that your lordships and the
country should well know the position and the relations of
those parties. (Hear, hear.) My lords, in the first place
there is tho party of her Majesty's government and of their
adherents, with various gradations of opinion among them-
selves—with great differences of opinion, I may go so far
to say, between various sections of that party, those dif-
(creams being still further increased by that which took
place on a recent occasion, and which has almost led to the
formation of another party, namely, the Irish Roman
catholic party in the House of Commons. My lords, there
is besides the party with which I have the honour of being
connected—a party numerous, no doubt, yet undoubtedly
in a minority in the House of Commons on every occasion,
and which, unfortunately, though it no doubt comprise.
men of talent and intellect, yet contains within itself, I will not
say no single individual, but hardly one individual of political
experience and versed in official business. My lords, I
feel that that is a great disadvantage for any party to labour
under. But there is a third party in the House of Commons,
not, indeed, very extensive in point of numbers, but most
important as regards the ability, the official experience, and
the talents of a great portion of its members—l mean that
small party, in point of numbers, though important in point
' of talent and experience, which has adhered to the policy of
the late Sir Robert Peel. My lords, looking at the comps,-
. sition of the House of Commons, and considering the practi-
cability of forming such a government as shall be enabled
permanently to conduct the affairs of this king-
dom, or which shall at least carry with it some
appearance of stability—for, I think, your lordships will be
of opinion, u undoubtedly I am, that nothing scarcely can be
so mischievous as constant change from one government to
_ .

another, or the formation of a government, with the pros-
pee.t of its being speedily removed from office, to the great
disturbance of public affairs—bearing this in mind, I shall
continue the extract which I bad commenced. And upon
the words which I am about to read I lay the more stress,
because the words themselves are not unimportant as exhi-
biting to your lordships and to the country the whole scope
sod tenor of the advice which upon that occasion I felt it
my duty to offer to her 3lajesty, and upon which some mite
couNtruction has prevailed. My lords, I think the noble
marquis will remember that when he made his statement
in this house, I felt it my duty, while I forbore to offer any
observation, to intimate at least to the noble marquis
that one expression had fallen from him upon which I
' might have desired to offer some comment ; and
in the other house of parliament, 1 understand,
statement was made to the effect that the representation
made of this affair by Lord John Russell, though certainly
not intentionally incorrect in point of form, was still calcu-
lated to convey an inference which was not justified by, the
facts. My lords, the inference which would be justified by
the naked statement on the part of the noble marquis here,
and on the part of Lord John Russell in the other house of ,
parliament, was this, that I had abandoned as hopeless the
expectation of being abbe to form a government. Ido not
mean to say that that expression was used, hut when it was
stated that I was not prepared to assume the responsibility
of forming a government, that was the inference which the
world at large might draw. Your lordships will see
how far that statement was correct. Undoubtedly it
was correct in form and in fact, but your lordships
will perceive with what qualification that statement, if
made at all, should have been accompanied, which qualifi-
cation it is impossible to find in the statement itself. My
lords, after leaving her Majesty that day, about a quarter-
past four o'clock, I did not return home immediately ; I did
not reach my own house till six o'clock. On arriving there
I found a note from her Majesty desiring that I would
place in writing the advice which I had given; and I have
since had the satisfaction of receiving front her Majesty an
assurance that there could not ho a more correct statement
of what passed than that which I submitted and now hold
in my hand. I went on to say—
After rating to ye air Majesty the pneltion of the three raja parties
into which the House of Commons is divided. Lord Stanley ob.ervel
that the policy of th• present adminiatratioe had met with the gene-
ral arproval and rip; wt of the most distinguished men of the party
which adhered to the late Sir it. Peel, and that they hail never yet
sett with a defeat num Lord Pawky'. political friends ; that a very
imp Ulla member of that party, Ott J. Graham, had publicly tied cal
his opinion of the necessity of ”cloising their rant." to resist the
promised policy of Lord St inley'a friends ; and as your M 'jesty had
been pleased to inform ben that no rommunic ition bad been iratlc to
any one previous to that wilt which your Majesty honoured him, he
ventured to suggest that, in the first instance, your Majesty should
ascertain whether it wire wit passible to atnegthen the present go.
varemint et partially to recomitruct It by a combination with these
who, not now bolding ofike, concurred in the opinions of there who
do, sad professed their opinion of the pencil' of union; that, fail-
Mg such a emehinatiott, a portion of that third party might be will-
ing to combine wit o Lewd Stanley, whose diMcoities in such a can
wand be greatly dimialabed ; that if it should appear that
loth w these arrangements were impracticable, and if petronal eon.
@Morelia's, stood in the way of the hitroationof agonrnment of thee
whose openers appeared to prevail in the UAW! el Commas Lemi
Stanley, not undernitli:gthLettriol diftelties Irbieb be should

—.natl.-a the estrome
ha.. to encounter, would, of honoured with your Majesty's and.
deuce, prefer any trainabllitr, and even the chance of failure and
low of reputation, in that of learns your Majesty and the country
without 14 government; and he :oiled that he believed an adroimor
Vanua fiord under such circumstances would be more likely to
meet with support, rein from ono ter :de opp memo of their vit..ti
than one which should it hinny formed without giving tine to chow
the impractlaability of a different arrangement. . . Ile feels highly
h moored by being allowed to anoint to your Majesty unrisernsily
hie whole views, sod whole he obould be sorry that Chia project ahould
fall into any other hands than Hose of your Majesty, ho has that
entire cenfldene, la Lord John itunsell's house, that he is sure no
acovemnata use will be made of aay portion of it which roar Majesty
May we et to communicate to him.

My lords, I hope I have satisfied your lordships that
when called upon by my Sovereign I did not in the first in-
stance hesitate to express my readiness to sacrifice every-
thing but my honour in attempting to serve my Queen.
(Cheers.) !!y lords, I hope you will be of opinion—I know
my own motives, I am conscious of the sincerity of my own
. . _ -
which actuated

mumaiaation, and ivininunicateil to Cord John Russell our
donision on the subject. I need not enter into the consider-
Mkaa of the various measures proposed fur our adoption,
beismus on some we entirely agreed, and (mothers probably
mutual explanations might have led ultimately to
an agreement, hut our difference was confined exclu-
sively to a single measure. It was that I felt un-
doubtedly an invincible repugnance to adopt that
measure of penal legislation towards the Roman
catholic subjects of this country by the prohibition
of the assumption of ecclesiastical titles. My lords, I am
quite aware that this is not a proper occasion to enter into
any full discussion of this subject. I hope at no distant
time we may have the opportunity of considering the sub-
ject, on which °evasion I shall be ready to express more
fully the views and opinions which I entertain; but I must
at the present moment state to the house the sleep cons lc-
linos and feelines which induced me to come to this deci-
sion, which led to a result so important, and which
might affect the great interests of the country,
by leading to the failure of that attempt with
which the noble lord was charged. I felt, then,
that this legislation must prove utterly ineffectual.
It is difficult enough at all times, by force of law, to
give a criminal rharaeter to acts in themselves indifferent,
so as to secure the ready obedience of mankind; but when
such acts are performed from a sense of duty and religious
obligation, your laws become dead ; conscience and opinion
ore beyond the sphere of your legislation. No doubt you
may persecute; we have bad fatal experience of the
efficacy of such proceetliugs. We have, fur two hun-
dred years, tormented very successfully effectually
tormented—those who differed from us iu religion; but,
nevertheless, instead of diminishing, we have increased
their number. I thought I saw in this measure a retro-
grade step towards a system of law which I hoped was
utterly abolished ; and I believed in the late proceedings
which have taken place no law had been violated, unless,
indeed, it had been those laws, the test of which contiones
to disgrace the statute-book, but which have been long ob-
solete, and which have been recently stigmatised by the
legislature. But although I felt persuaded that no
violation of law had taken place, I was not the
less sensible of the arrogant tone assumed by the
Boman pontiff, and by his cardinal, in the decree of the
one, and in the pastoral letter'of the other ; and I thought
this might properly engage the notice of her Majesty's
government and es en of parliament ; but I .11r no sufficient
grounds for legislative interference, with a view of abridg-
mg the religions liberty of our Roman catholic fellow-
subjects, and of impeding the lawful and regular develop-
ment and organisation of their episcopal church. I found
that my right hon. friend cutire:y coincided with me,

country.
cannot help thinking that such feelings resisted on tic..
part, and connected with the anticipated failure of the
financial project announced by the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, led to their resignation; and I am not surprised
at their taking such a step; although, undoubtedly, the
course which the late government have taken has
not been such as to induce me to think that the
ordinary circumstance of so small a majority as 1-I would
he held by them a sufficient indication to induce them to
retire from office. 1 ant induced to believe that with
those two other difficulties staring them in the face. and
leading them to the conclusion that they must go against
their own convictions, or forfeit the support of their ordinary
adherents ; and with the difficulty attending the universal
dissatisfaction which appears to have been produced by the
budget.—(cheers;-1 net induced to believe that it was not
an unwelcome occasion which presented itself on Thursday
night of the defeat of the government, in a thin house, by a
majority of their own adherents. (Hear, hear.) I took the
liberty—not for a moment doubting the immediate cause at
the time of the resignation of the late government—l ven-
tured to make to her Majesty one or two remarks upon
those two questions. I hold in my hand now a copy of
a portion of a letter which, by her Majesty's express com-
mand after the interview 1 had with her, I wrote to her
111*stv, for the purpose of placing on record the advice
which .1 felt it my humble duty to tender ; and from that
letter I shall, with her Majesty's permission, read so much
of those passages us will tend to explain the course which I
pursued on that occasion. Having adverted to the two
circumstances stated by her Majesty as the ground of the
resignation of the late government, and observed with re-
ference to the motion of Mr. Disraeli that it had been nega-
tived, and although by a small majority. the minority was
reinforced, was increased by a number of votes hostile
to the government on another ground ; and with reference
to the majority on Mr. Locke King's motion, hiving
observed—and, my lords, I must digress here for a mo-
ment. I hold this as a point which I trust your lordships
will not lose sight of when it is stated that the governmeitt,
in addition to the votes of their own adherents, calculated
on the support of some of their opponents, which would
have been given to them in opposition to such a dangerous
and mischievous measure—when it is obseried that the ab-
sence of those opponents upon whose support they calcu-
lated caused the government to be defeated, it is right that
your lordships and the country should know the facts with
reference to that defeat. My lords, Mr. Locke Kin's mo-
tion was carrietiby more than 100 votes to 54. My lords, of
those St votes 17 were the votes of the protectionist party,
27 more were the votes of official men; and of the whole
House of Commons. exclusive of those bound by official ties,
the ministry. brought to their
.support ten independent
• smtured

Rai I' may mention to the house that this agree: i members, and no Con.(Hear. ye, ,
CUM .ace arrived at without the least concert them facts to hot Majesty; and I stvadthst, aqua u wsa

the number of my frienda who voted on that occasion," I eon" on the government themselves ' • the consequence
stated that which I believe to be the fact, that " their num- being, that with all their ability and all their influence,
ben would have been much greater but for the impression they render the formation of a government on either side
which undoubtedly prevailed that your Majesty's ministers impossible. (Hear, hear.) My lords, on receiving from my
were not honestly exercising their influence to defeat the noble friend a refusal, couched in language of the most
motion. I believed that, and my friends in the House of perfect friendship, which I believe was quite sin-
Commons believed it; and if they had thought that there cere, I nest sought to ascertain whether the noble
was an earnest determination on the part of the government lord, who had served under my noble friend, was willing
to act on their own principles, they would have given them to give me his assistance by carrying on the administration
a generous and disinterested support; but they did not feel of foreign affairs. I also failed in inducing that noble lord
' bound to attend in large numbers to enable thi, government 'to take part with me. I had conferences with various par-
to defeat a measure, while it permitted so many ties in this and in the other house of parliament—l will not
of its own supporters to be absent." (Hear, hear.) mention names—bat with respect to one individual, I must
My lords, after adverting to the icular circumstances be allowed to say that I never felt anything more deeply i
with which the dissolution of the latepart government was ac- than the frankness with which he at once expressed his rea-
companied, my first statement to her Majesty was, that after diners to share the responsibility which I had taken upon I
the part which I had taken in public affairs, after the ex- myself by administering a department for which I thought,'
pressions of which I had made use, after the opinions which and for which I believe the country, would have found him,
I had uttered, after the sanction which I had given, and peculiarly qualified. My lords, Mr. Gladstone was ex-
seeing that if I had been a member of the other house I ' pected to arrive us London on the following day, and I felt
certainly should have supported by my rote the motion of that it would he a great advantage to secure the assist-
Mr.
Disraeli, recording the distress among the agricultural ante of so able, so honest, and so upright, a
class,—avowed in the speech of her Majesty from the • man as Mr. Gladstone in the House of Commons—one who
throne,—and declaring that it was the duty of the govern- is well versed in political affairs, and who last year, in con-
ment to take effective measures for the relief of that distress, tradistinetion to the party with which he is connected, sup-
it would be impossible for me, even if my convictions were j ported • motion which was brought forward by Mr.,
less strong than they were, it would be impossible for me as i Disraeli with a view to the relief of agricultural distress.
an honest man to take office without a full determination to But, my lords, after communicating with Mr. Gladstone, I'
deal with that distress, and to endeavour to apply to it, as I found that circumstances rendered it impossible for him,'
a minister, effective measures of relief. (Cheers.) consistently with his own views of propriety, to take part in
My lords, I stated that, if I could so far forget' the contemplated administration. 1 RIM thus deprived of
myself as to sacrifice my own honest convictions, the low of I all extraneous assistance in the formation of a government,
honour which would be involved in such a course of pro- I and compelled to rely entirely on that party with which I'
reeding would make my services worsethan valueless. was immediately and politically connected, and among
(Hear, hear.) I said that I had entertained, and that I which, as I stated before, there were few, if any, men pay-
retained, the opinion that it was the duty of the govern- ,eased of official experience, and trained in habits of
ment, it it were impossible to do full justice, at all events public business. My lords' even among the members of that
to take steps towards mitigating the injustice under which putty I found that some of those who were well qualified to
the proprietors and occupiers of land in this country were discharge public duties, were by various causes induced to
suffering. (Hear, hear.) I did not bind. myself to any decline—one,hy the pr.,,sure of
. extensive private concerns;
specific measure,. although at. the proper time I shall not another, by disinclination to join (as was underitiiod) any
shrink from stating the specific measure which I would re- administration , and • third by an undue appreciation. of
commend but Ido say that I world not take office on any his own abilities. I say, from three of those individuals I
other condition than that of endeavouring fauna de to give received declarations of their unwillingness or inability to
effect to my own conviction of the necessity of legislating Join an administration. Under these circumstances, and
for the relief of that class of her Majesty's subjects, (Cheers.) looking at the position of the House of Commons, I thought
s notice ,• •-• • •

easier) ministries has been pledged, that the income
tax should not be permitted to degenerate into a permanent
tax. (Cheers.) My lords, Sir Robert Peel introduced the
income tax in 184,, at a period of great commercial dis-
tress, when there had been for three years a gradually
accumulating deficiency in the revenue. He accompanied
the proposal of it with an express declaration that the
design of it was to enable him to deal with other portions
of the fiscal system of this country, by means of which he
hoped within a limited period the revenue would be
made to equal the expenditure. Ile pledged himself
that at the expiration of that period the income tax
should be discontinued. There is not a man living who
believed that without that pledge the House of Commons
would have consented to the imposition of a tax which had
always been held to be a tax for war times, always been
deprecated in times of peace, which, shape it as you will,
levy it as you please, must be full of anomalies and incon-
veniences, and, whilst pressing heavily on various sections
of the community, must be attended with such complicated
injustice that no modification will make its operation just
and equal. (Hear,) My lords, Sir It. Peel said he considered
it would he necessary to continue the tax for about five years
but that he would at first ask only that it might be imposed
fur three years, being well assured that parliament would
not hesitate to renew it at the end of that period if it had
in the meantime worked well, and secured the object for
which it had been imposed. The second renewal of the
income tax took place in ISIS, a period, as your lordships
must recollect, of the greatest distress, immediately follow-
ing the disasters of 1847, and when, in order to maintain
the credit of the country, it was absolutely: necessary that it
should be restored. But, my lords, we have now arrived ut a
very different state of things. In the first place, we have
to deal with a surplus of two millions and a half. We have
a state of alleged general prosperity ; and I do not wish to
deny the existence of that prosperity, although I fear that
there are indications that in some branches the prosperity
is not as permanent as your lordships could desire it to be ;
but I hold that in a state of general prosperity, with a
surplus of two millions and a half, and a further renewal
of the income tat, at the expiration of 9 years from the
period when it was established, without any security
being taken either for its modification or Its abo-
lition, would be a virtual declaration that the in-

.a was high time for me to come to • decision as to the
course which I should pursue. On Wednesday morning,
when I last had the honour of an audience with her Majesty,
I undertook by eleven o'clock this morning to communicate
to her Majesty whether the experiment on which I nad en-
t..red was likely to be successful, ur whether I thought I
should be compelled to abandon the hope of proceeding.
Yesterday afternoon there met at my house a portion of say
noble friends here, and my friends in the other house of
parliament who had consented to take part in the govern.
ment should it be formed. The whole state of the care
was then anxiously and deliberately considered, and I be-
lieve 1 have their strong concurrence when I state that it
was their view, as well as my own, that although I might
have been enabled to present to her Majesty a list of names
of vntlemen who would have been fully competent,
with the aid of a majority in the House of
Commons, to carry on creditably and practically
the business of the country, yet I could not lay
before her Majesty a list strong enough to face a powerful
majority in the other house of parliament—a majority
always ready to combine for purposes of opposition, though
unable to act together for the administration of the govern-
m...nt. (Hear, hear) I could not undertake to say that the
cabinet which I could present to her Majesty would be such
as to enable me for any length of time creditably to carry
on the public business in the House of Commons against a
powerful and numerous majority. (Hear, hear.) My
lords, I stated further to her Majesty—and I am the more
anxious to say so, because misrepresentations have taken
place on this subject —at the interview with which I was
honoured by her Majesty, I stated that the difficulty would
be very great of the formation of a new administration
under any circumstances, as, owing to the position of public
business at this time of the year, they would be exposed to
the necessity of sitting for u considerable time—a minority

come tax should be saddled for ever on this country.
(" Hear, hear," and cheers.) When I recollect that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, in his celebrated budget, de-
clared that there were various other classes as much entitled
to Mier as those who suffered from the operation of the'
paper duty, and that when he had disposed of the paper
duty, the tea duty, the tobacco duty, and when he had ad-
justed other parts of the general system of taxation, lw
would be prepared to deal with the question of the renewal
of the income tax, I must say that this looks
very like imposing the income tax on this country
for ever. (Hear, hear.) A very short time before
the introduction of the budget, and when it was generally
understood to be the intention of her Majesty's ministers to
propose the renewal of the ineome tax without modifica-
tion, there was a very general feeling on the part of many
persons in favour of the total abolition of the tax. My
lords, I never will be a party to any measure in opposition,
which, if I were charged with the responsibility of govern-
ment, I should not see my way to accomplish—(hear,
hear) ; and, believing that the credit of the country would
not at this moment bear the entire removal of the
income tax, I must say that I could not sup-
port a measure which would leave a deficiency
of at lewd two millions and a half in the re—
venue. (Hear, hear.) But I was perfectly prepared
to advise that a course should he taken which would have
been declaratory of the determination of parliament to deal
with the income tax as rapidly to the finances of the country
would allow; not rendering dealing with it a matter of
impossibility, by frittering away every surplus as it arose,
and thus rendering the removal of the tax impossible until
there was actually a surplus in one year of 5,000.0001.
Without attempting to reduce other taxes, I was prepared
to recommend to parliament a measure for taking off from
-third to one-half of the ineome tax, and if that amount

in the presence of a powerful majority—for that in the
state of public business it was not possible, nor would I
venture to advise her Majesty at this time to have recourse
to a dissolution of parliament fur the purpose of testing
public opinion. (Hear.) My lord+ I say this because I
know an impression has prevailed that what has been
called my first resignation was the consequence of the demand
on my part that her Majesty would give me the power of
dissolving parliament, a demand with which it hits been
said her Majesty refused to comply. For that statement
there is not the shadow of a foundation. (Cheers.) I hope
I know my duty to my sovereign too we to insist upon a
pledge upon a question with respect to which no sovereign
ought to give a pledge. (Cheers.) On the other hand I
am confident that her Majesty knows too weU, and respects
too highly, the mutual obligations, if I may venture to use
the phrase, which subsist between a constitutional sovereign
and her responsible advisers, to refuse to me, osr to any
minister who may be honoured with her confidence, the
ordinary powers entrusted to a minister, or the ordinary
compliance of being guided by his advice; and I am autho•
rised, on the part of her Majesty, distinctly to state that no
person would be justified in saying, or holding out the
belief, that if I had felt it my duty to recommend to her
Majesty the dissolution of parliament, her Majesty's con-
sent would have been withheld. (Cheers.) But, my lords,
in the position in which we found ourselves in presence of a
hostile majority—a dissolution being impossible in conse-
quence of the state of public business, and unadvissible,
perhaps, at this moment on other grounds—l say, my lords,
we came to the conclusion that, in such a state of things,
we could not, satisfactorily, carry on the busineas
of the country, and that it was my duty, them-
fore, to take the first opportunity of humbly lay-
ing before her Majesty my resignation of the trust
with which she had honoured me. (Hear, hear.) I made
the communication which I felt it me duty to make to her
Majesty yesterday evening at 5 o'clock. The noble marquis
has stated what has taken place sines. I have only to add
that, so far as me communications with her Majesty were
concerned, nothing could exceed the condescension and the
graciousness of manner—and mere than of manner—with
which any proposition from me has been listened to—
(cheers)—the graciousness with which any communication
or any advice which I felt it my duty to tender to her Ma-
jesty was received. I feel deeply grateful to her Ma•
jcsty for the confidence with which she honoured mo, and
this confidence only adds to the regret which I feel
that I in vain endeavoured to do her Majesty's
service. My lords, I have no complaint to make of those
whose sincere difference from myself in political opinions
deprived me of the power of forming an administration. I
did not take on myself the task—(hear, hear)—l did not
thrust myself upon the Queen. (Cheers.) It was by no
act of my friends in the House of Commons that the late
administration fell, but by their own intrinsic weakness,
and by the divisions amongst their supporters. When they
fell I hope I felt no undue eageniess to succeed them—
(hear, hear)—and I think in the position I myself occu-
pied I should not have been justified in assuming the re-
sponsibility of office without ascertaining beforehand that
that assumption was, as far as could be seen, the only prac-
ticable mode of forming an administration. (Hear, hear.)

one-third to one-nait of thenoose-sees,
could be taken off, I was desirous that parliament should
pledge itself to its gradual reduction, with a view to its
final abolition, by applying any surplus that might arise
to the reduction and final extinction of the tax. (Hear,
hear.) I must now give some answer to the appeal which
IT.LS made to me a few nights ago by a noble earl. as to
what my views were on the subject of agricultural distress.
I do not now wish to enter upon the doctrine and priori-
ph of protection in the abstract. I hold it to be admitted
and undeniable, that the land of this country is labouring
under an amount of taxes of various descriptions which far
exceeds that which falls on other classes of the community.
Whatever may he the difference of opinion as to the exact
amount of these burdens, the fact of their labouring undo r
them is not to be denied. (Hear, hear.) I believe also it
will not be denied that the effect of the measure
for abolishing the duty on corn has had an effect
lon prices far more extensive than was expected—than was
I believe desired or anticipated by the authors of that bill.
(Hear, hear.) Ido not believe that any imposition of im-
port duty that could be submitted to parliament would have
the effect or could have the offer. of raising the present
price of corn up to what it was. It was stated at the time
the corn law was repealed, that, under ordinary circum-
stances, and from the state of the foreign markets, the price
of corn could not fall below 4fis. in this country. But we
now see it at 375. or 38s.—(hear, hear)—and whilst 1 have
no desire to check the due exercise of commerce, or to re-
verse the general policy introduced by Sir It. Peel, 1 say
that by the imposition of a moderate duty on corn, you
would he able to raise a considerable revenue, without mate-
rially raising the price of agricultural produce to the con-
sumer; and by the acquisition of 1,500,0001. or 2,000,(00/.
from that source, you would enable the government to pro-
ceed more rapidly in conferring on the community at large
the immediate and total extinction of the income
tax. (Hear, hear.) I do not hesitate to say, there-
fore, that if it was found impracticable, as I think
it would, to effect such an alteration nf the incidence of tax-
ation as would place all classes on the same level, it would
be only fair, and according to the best free trade authori-
ties, it would not be adverse to free trade principles, that
those who were subject to undue burdens should be
protected by a countervailing duty sufficient to meet these
burdens. (Hear, hear.) By the imposition of a certain
duty on corn and provisions I think you may raise such a
revenue as would enable parliament to abolish at the end
of a year the income tax altogether. And this relief to the
finances of the country, and from the pressure of taxation,
would infinitely and immeasurably counterbalance any evil
which may be occasioned by an advance in the price of
*heat to the consumer. (Hear, hear.) Ido not now wish
to enter upon the general question or to express any opinion
on the subject of protection. The question of an unrestricted
importstionof provisions must be settled once and for ever
when an appeal is made to the country for a decision. (Hear.)
I cannot take the present policy as more than an experiment
in the course of being carried out. (Cheers.) Should the
result of the next general election show that the country is
in favour of a perfect unrestricted importation of provisions,
and is opposed to any duty such as exists in all other coma
tries for the purpose of obtaining a revenue, and which even
this imposes on some articles of prim necessity—if
the

But, my lords, entirely concurring with the noble marque'
opposite in the remark which he made, that whatever sacri-
nee may reasonably be espeeted from a public man, it is
nut to he expected that he will ibr any length of time carry
on the business of the country without the support of a ma-
jority in parliament, and feeling that for a considerable
time, it would he impossible for me to take steps to ascer-
tain whether I could obtain that majority, which I knew I
had not then, I felt that the only course consistent with my
duty was to ask to he released from the necessity of taking
on mpelf the duties of an office which I could not till satis-
factorily to the country. My lords, theme is one print

to which, though it doei not concern myself, justice bolh to
her Majesty and to Lord John Russell, requires that I
should allude. I have already contradicted the report which
has been exceedingly prevalent, as to her Majeity refusal,
in the event of my arlvisin; it, which advice I beg distinctly
to repeat I did not tender, but, on the contrary, I expressed
. .
dissolution

country. necessity -
this should he tric opinion of the country at the next eleetion,
I for one, and I believe the majority of your lordships and
of parliament, will bow to that expression of the sense of the
country. (Cheers.) But, till I see that expression of the
country, I will not abandon the belief that the country is not
opposed to the impositionof a moderate import duty on corn.
(Cheers.) Let it be recollected that the labourers,
the owners, and the occupiers of land, are the only class
of the community who are now suffering. The distress may
not reach the agricultural labourers as soon as the employers.
The reduction of wages may not he commensurate with the
fall in the price of provisions, hut if that were so they were
"' '

only living on the. capital Of others. (Hear.) It is no
more possible fur the labourers to be permanently pros-
perous whilst the employers of labour are distressed, than
it is for a river to cortinue flowing when cut off (rum the
springs that feed it. (Hear, hear.) I have to apologise for
stating to your lordships at such length incidentally but
• • •

~ _
,
sting s
conduct, and of the integrity of the motives . ... ___ ~ it as my opinion that at the present time a . was frankly the views I entertain and the policy I would have
me—l trust your lordships will be of opinion that I have impossible—l'have already stated the circuits,- sees M proposed, and I cannot but think that the policy which I
shown no undue eagerness to grasp at power—(cheers)— which originated the letter that I hold in my hand. Im- have indicated would have largely benefited the revenue,
and I hope you will also give me credit for having been in- mediatcly alter my leaving, I believe Lord John Russell would have enabled us to take off heavy and unjust taxes,
fluenced by no motive of Personal ambition, and by no de- was sent for. Shortly after I arrived at my own and would not have injured the consumers, whilst it would
sire to place myself in a position for which I was not quell- house 1 sent this statement of what had taken place, have arrested the progress to ruin of a most important
tied. (Cheers.) My lonl., I hope, on the other hand, you by the desire of her Majesty. Now a report clam of the community. (Hear, hear.) I will now say a
will give me credit for not having shrunk from the duty has been industriously circulated, that before I sent few words before I sit down on the important subject of the
which devolved on me, as it might have devolved on any to her Majesty what was presumed to be my resignation, papal aggression. (Hear, hear.) No man feels more strongly
but which was, in fact, the statement of facts which I have than I do the impolicy of introducing any measure for re-
public Man, considering the difficulty to which the Queen was
reduced, of tendering my best services, even at the risk of read, either her Majesty hail sent for other adviser,, or stricting any persons in the free exercise of their religious
failure in the attempt, and at the risk of loss of personal Lord John Russell had unduly thrust himself upon her Ma- opinion., and I entirely concur with my noble friend iu
reputation in consequence of failure. My lords, I hope I joity. That supposed declination to take office for myself what he has said on that point. I would be the last to con-
have also satisfied your lordshiPs that, having entered upon was tendered to her Majesty at half-past 4; at half-past 1 sent to the introduction of any measure for depriving any
Lord John Russell was sent for to the palace ; and at half-
that important task, I applied my best energies to the portion of my fellow-countrymen of the full and free excl.-
accomplishment of it ;—(hear, hear)—that while I did not Past 6 a copy of what had taken place in the interview be- vise of their religious opinions, and the full and free per-
shrink from the difficulties, immense as they must have tween her Majesty and myself was placed in his hands. I formance of their religious duties. (Hear, hear.) But be-
been under any circumstances, attending the attempt to make this statement in onler that nn doubt may remain on twecn a penal law directed against religious opinions, and
forma government, I did not unduly prolong the period
the public mind as to the conduct of her Majesty, who, lam parliamentary legislation directed against foreign interfer-
sure. would never think of communicating with a minister
of suspense by continuing to make the attempt when I had mice there is the greatest difference. (Hear, hem.) My
become convinced in my own mind it would utterly while another person was charged with, and had not declined lords, in the course which the Pope has been advised to
fail. (Hear, hear.) My lords, it was on Tuesday the responsibilityof attempting to form agov,..rnment ; and on take, and which his emissaries have pursued, Ido not know
morning that her alajesty again sent for me, informing me the other hand, that it may not be supposed that Lord John if any law has been violated or not. In Lord John Rua-
that the state of things I anticipated had come to pant, and Russell had taken the presumptuous step of forcing himself sell's too celebrated letter it was stated that the law officers
that Lord John Russell had failed in the attempt to region- on his Sovereign while negotiations were being carried on of the crown would be consulted as to whether the law had
struct a government, and that my noble friend, Lord Aber- with another person. (Cheers.) And, my lords, I might been violated or not, and if not, that he would intro-
deco, having been applied to, had stated his inability to form here stop, having furnished the personal explanations which duce amendments in the law. (hear, hear.) I think the
a government by any combination with the present adminis- I was able to tender to the house. But I cannot conclude, act of the Pope is in itself of minor importance,
brawn. (Hear, hear.) Her Majesty reminded me of the in the present strange state of:political affairs, without ad- but of infinitely more importance I regard the insolent tone
pledge which I had given that, in the event which had oe- veiling fur a moment to some of those leading topics which in which it was introduced—(hear, hear)—in which it was
cursed, I would not hesitate to face the difficulty. my at this moment appear to form insuperable obstacles to the announced, as from authority, that he claimed jurisdiction
lords, I could not hesitate as to the manner in which I I union of public men. My lords, that it is a mortification over the realm of England, to interfere with the preroga-
should respond to that appeal, and front Tuesday morning to me not to hare been able to jorm a government which five of the Crown and the independence of the country and,
till Thursday afternoon I was unremittingly engaged m might carry on satisfactorily the affairs of the country, 110 I will venture to to,, of parliament. (Hear, hear.) That
endeavouring to carry my object into effect. In not pretend to deny; that I feel any hostility towards those was a proceeding which it was impossible for the people
the position of parties in the House of Commons, who have prevented me from forming a government I trust and parliament of this country to pass by unnoticed. But
to which I have referred, it became a matter of the utmost Your lordships do not imagine ; but I may be permitted to I cannot approve of the mode in which it has been sought
importance to me to obtain, if this were practicable with- express a regret, not on personal but on public grounds, to meet at. (Hear, hear.) I cannot but think that the
out a sacrifice of political consistency on either side, the that I was unable to form an administration which would measure of the government bears the marks of haste rather
lassistance and co-operation of some of those who, though ' have brought to a satisfactory issue two or three great than of due deliberation—(heer, hear)—and, for my own
generally acting on conservative principles, had yet been ! questions which appear now to form a stumbling block in part, if that were to be the extent of legislation contem-
Iseparated by the unfortunate differences which took place , our path. My lords, having no wish fur concealment, anal plated by the advisers of the Crown, I think it would have
in 1516 from the great body of the protectionist party.l thinking that a frank declaration of opinion by pub- been better not to have legislated at all than to legis-
-1 (Hoar, hear.) My lords, I will here frankly say that I !BC men may not be undesirable, whether for the late so ineffectually—that it would have been far hater
foresaw a great difficulty in dealing with foreign affairs. I
My first object in endeavouring to remove that difficulty at
the commencement WAS to ascertain whether, basing filed ! I will Wen
country or for the possible successor of one who not to have raised such a strong feeling of ' • uulig-
has failed in the attempt to form an administration, nation on the part of the protestant community,
out of the line which, under ordinary cir- and on the part of the Roman catholic community,
to effect a junction with the late overnment, my noble friend
1 cumstances, I should pursue, and frankly state to your if it was only to be followed by the introduction of a mea-
mem
me (the Earl of Aberdeen) would to willing to lordships the course which, had I been able to form an ad- sure which for a good or efficacious purpose was wholly and
undertake the duties of that department, which he 'for-' ministration, I should have felt it desirable to pursue in re- perseetly useless. (Cheer..) The insult should le met, but
marl administered with so much credit to himself, and so
femme to three very important questions, the financial if the law was not violated, it would have been more amply '
much to the honour of the country, or whether he and Position of the country, agricultural- distress in connexion met by a resolution of both houses of parliament, declatg
those who acted with him would remain in what I cannot with that position, and the important question which hiss the unconstitutional character of the aggression, that they
bat think an unfortunate position, namely, that of being . been mentioned by my noble friend. My lords, I begin, would not recognise the validity of the titles assumed to be
*hen by saying that, financially, I hold it to be an object conferred an •l that unable to form a combination with sue or other of the two • •. • those who bore such titles should have
conflicting parties, .1111 at the same time of being unable to not Sly of vital importance, but to which the fate of sae- no precedence over others a! any kind within the realm.

(Cheers.) Ido not know whether my noble friend would
go even so far.
Lord ABERDEEN—Oh, yes.
Lord STANLEY—Going so far with my noble friend, I
am afraid I should separate there from him, for in my
opinion such a resolution would not meet the magnitude
of the evil. I think the bill of the government did
Dot touch the real danger, did not touch the insult.
(Cheers.) The real danger is this—it is the gradual
growth and encroachment of the Pope and the Pope's pre-
lates acting under his authority, and their desires. to inter-
fere in matters not purely and strictly religious, and to exer-
cise powers which, if not in violation, were at rivalry with
the law of the land. And while I would not in the lean
interpose any restrictions on the exercise of religious
opinions and duties, I am prepared to oppose papal aggres-
sion now as it was opposed in the days of our ancestors.
(Cheers.) But lam not prepared to legislate at the present
moment. Ido not think the full amount of iutbrination as
to the facto of the case it before us, and this is a case in
which, shove all others, you must legislate terfull informa-
tion. (Hear, hear.) I believe the law is in a mint
anomalous state. (Hear, hear.) For he tans, there
is a statute which declares it to be high treason to
introduce any bull or rescript from Borne, and yet
the penalties for violating that statute are taken away;
and by declaring the act to be high treason, and at tho
same time taking away the penalties it rendered inopera-
mtive all proceedings for minor offences. Take the close
of synods for example. The derision of a svaod would be
of far greater authority and more binding on the sun-
sciences of Boman cathobes than that of an individual
Wallop. The Roman catholic bishops world obtain • kind
of lerbilative authority when acting in synod, and if that
be so, the queation is of infinite importance—nut whether
there is to he a Bishop of Birmingham, but whether we aro
going to have in this country a kind of imperitan its im-
peril, acting in synod and enforcing the derision; of that
ayuod by the most awful of all penalties—the spiritual
cmsursu of the church—(cheers) —and thus exereixing a
power superior to that of parliament in the eyes of Boman
catholics, even though against the law of the laud. (Cheers.)
In the act of 1829 certain securities were taken ti,r the pro-
testant* of the kingdom, and certain restrictions were ha-
posed on the Itousan catholics. Since 1829 we may have
shut our eyes to petty encroaelimenta of the law, but we
shut our eyes intentionally. The Pope, however, has de-
dared that our eyes shall not he shut—that there shall be no
connivance and no alternative between that which we prohi-
bited and that which we distinctly allowed. I think the
distinction is remarkable. I think it is unjust to pro-
hibit by law that which you permit in practice.
It is anomalous, that, by not recognising the au-
thority anti jurialliction of the Pope— I do not
of course mean oily legal authority or jurisdiction, but that
authority which he exereisso over.hia spiritual subjects, and
that by putting penalties on this, you leave tither things to
helpractised uncontrolled. (Hear, hear.) You have ques-
tion* depending relative to the disposition of Boman ca-
tholic property in this country. It is a fit subject of inquiry
whether all religious houses in this country should not Ito
subjected to the power of visitation-- (hear, head—
anti to see that no persons should be detained in theta
against the law of tho land, and against their
our consent. (Hoar, hear.) But upon the whole OW of
the relations of the Boman catholics towards the state and
a foreign power parliament and the country• were equally
ill informed. (Hear, hear.) I agree with the whit. earl
who spoke a few nights ago, a Boman catholic. memlier of
this house, that it may be necessary for Boman catholic' in
this country to have communication in spiritual matters
with Boone. I do not shut my eyes to the fact that such
communications have taken place, and that they have been
permitted. I would hermit them so far as they are neves-
airy for the religious worship of the lionian catholics of
this country. And at the same time I would not allow
them to interfere with the rights of any portion of her
Majesty's subjects. (Ilear, hear.) This is a subject son
which we should legislate temperately, deliberately, and
with full information. The loos of one year or of two years
is not an evil, of whatever magnitude, which can be tom-
' pared to that of deciding hastily, ineffectually, or its a
passionate or irritating manner on this greet anti important
subject. (Hear, hear.) As yet we have only touched the
outside; the full and real danger is untouched by
the legislation which is proposed. It ran hardly
he said, I think, that I have tried to thnist my-
self into power, and I hope your lordshipa will
consider, that whilst I have not unduly shrunk
from the responsibility, I have not pertinaciously
peroierered in the attempt of forming a government after
KW that it was impracticable. (Hear, hear.) But, above
all, I hope you wgl say, my lords, that in the course I have
pursued I have done nothing discreditable to my motives or
derogatory to that fair character which 1 hold to he an in-
estimable possession for every public man. (Rear.)
The Marquis of L.aNSDOWNE said that what lie had
stated on the former evening was that the noble lord was
not " then " prepared to undertake the task of forming a
government ; and, if he was not much mistaken, lie laid
considerable emphasis on the word "then," being aware
that that did not imply the impossibility of the noble lord
undertaking it under other circumstances. The statement
was, that the noble lord was not " then" prepart•d, and that
in consequence of his not being " then" prepared Lord J.
Busmen was sent for ; that he would not have twilit seat fur
if the noble lonl was SO prepared ; anti hernia that he (the
Marquis of Lansdowne) thought it would be travelling out
of kis way if he attempted to do that for the noble
lord whirls he knew the noble lord would have
an opportunity of doing for himself--namely, of developing
and explaining what were the particular circumstances
which "then" prevented him from undertaking the task.
Ile was extremely glad that the noble lord had that oppor-
tunity, and he was bound to saythat the noble lord availed
himself of it in a manner and spirit, and with a manliness
of purpose that did honour to him in the explanation which
he made. (Cheers.) Having set that matter right he would
now advert to the speech of the noble earl who followed
him (Lord Aberdeen). The noble earl who thought it ne-
cessary to enter upon an explanation at greater length than
he (the Marquis of Lanatlowne) expected, was not content
with stating hie difference of opinion from Lord J. Rumen
with respect to the Boman Catholic Bill, but procemkal to
characterise the bill which had been introdueed into the
' other house of parliament by his noble friend. Now he
could not sit still and hear that measure so charaeterised
without rising to protest against the justice of the ehn-
racier which hail been given of it. (Rear, hear.)
Ile was extremely anxious to state that whereas the noble
owl had described that measure as one of a penal charticter
against the Roman cathulics—he was net sure if the noble
earl had not used the word " persecution," a wont which, he
believed, which was only uttered at a public meeting in an
unguarded moment—he wax sure it was as far from the
thought of his noble friend as it was from his own, or
that of the noble earl, to introduce or to carry any measure
the effect of which should lie to direct penal consequences
against the exercise of the Roman catholic religiou. (Hear,
hear.) lie thought, and those who Tonal with him thought
that this measure was rendered necessary by the insult
which had been offered to the Queen and people of this
country—they thought that it was necessary to pass some
act to vindicate the honour of the crown and the
independence of the country ; but, nevertheless,
they felt that beyond that, to interfere with the
exercise of the Boman catholic religion by any
enactment would be grossly unjust and abotuni, and
attended with disastrous consequences. (Hear, hear.) The
ground on which it was introduced was simply that of pro-
tecting the country against foreign influence—dust foreign
influence making use of the Roman cathoolica as an instru-
ment. (Hear.) The intention in intnelueing the meamire was
to protect this country, the protestant laity, and the Woman
catholic laity from that intervention on the pert of the Pope
which had be en shown to he dangerous aud mischievous

fore, and would be misehiesZ and dangerous again.
(Cheers.) But so far from wishing to debar perSoll. pro-
reusing the Roman catholic religion either in Englund or
Ireland from any of those privileges, or any of those power*
which are necessary for the exercise of that religion, I
should have been prepared at any time to 'olive given facili-
ties for that exercise, and to proteetthose powers. (Cheers.)
But at the same time he felt it to be a duty incumbent both
on the crown and parliament that the prerogatives of the
crown and the independence of parliament should be de-
fended, when openly attacked, against any foreign autho-
rity, dominion, or power whatever. (Chien.) Ili, noble
friend not being able to take the same view of thi. sat ject
which was entertained by the noble earl (Lord Aberdeto)
and the right hon. baronet (Sir J. Graham), states!
that he was prepared to make such alterations in the
bill as would, whilst the object with which it was intro-
duced was carried out, remove any misapprehensions that
might be entertained, either by the Boman catholics of this
country or of Ireland, as to the effect it would have on the
free exercise of their religion and the full enjoyment of
every Roman catholic privilege by those authorities
by which 111011 C the Roman catholic religion could be
carried on. (Hear, hear.) With respect to one observa-
tion which fell from the noble lord iu the course
of his statement, he begged to observe that the government
had not come to the decision of dissolving the administra-
tion because of one accidental division which had taken
place at an early hour in the other house of parliament. It
was the general absence of that support in the other house
and no difference of opinion amongst themselves, whirls in-
duced them to adopt the course they pursued. (Hear.)
Lord STANLEY said the noble marquis misunderstood
what he said. What he said was, that he could not divest
himself of the opinion that, independently of the smallness of
the majority on Mr. Disraeli's motion, and the subsequent
defeat on Mr. Locke King's motion, there were other ques-
tions on which differences were so great that the fear of oppo-
sition from their own supporters on the questions of papal ag-
grtusion and the budget must have entered largely into the
question of the resignation. That resignation took place so
suddenly that the noble marquis was himself out of town,
and the noble earl near him received, he believed, the in-
formation in the city, that by thedecision of the cabinet, of
winch he was a member, he was no longer a cabinet minister.
(Cheers and laughter.) The noble lord, the Lord l'riry
Seal (Lord Shinto) seemed to be as little acquainted with
the intentions of the cabinet as he was with the papal in-
tention, and no one appeared to have time to say to him
0 that concerns you." (Laughter.)
The house then adjourned at half-past seven o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FRIDAY, FEB. 28.
The Stamm& took the chair at the u•ual hour.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.