The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-11 00:00:00

eospicion (Hear, hear) The only iseonvitaienee would
be, that ladies who were not eccustonsed to see any gentle-
man but the pricer, would have to see this gentleman ap-
p.,,oeed by the Secretary ut state, who, if be found soy
I cat n steeled, could -ere out aha as wts.
11 •
h.• wusiel balance the inconver is nee of such a
soot sit inset the reeutts t tat visit was intended to secure?
In conslusion he appealed to parliament to afford these
„, mop. wit.; were altogether helpless of themselves and in
power of parties who were wholly irresponeible, the
benefit of the protection of the law. lie would urge them
so do this seen for the sake of the institutions themselves,
I, relieve thon from the odium which, in the public mind,
attached to them; and which, if something was not done
ep„rdity, would go on Me re 44 ing until something very dif-
ferent Irma • bill of this nature would hs requtnd. He
swish for leave to brim! is • bill to facilitate the s.mevery
of p wool liberty in coolant eases.
Mr. C. BERKELEY segeuded the motion. He was at
a loss to couttiv• why this country should stand almeorith
the exe.hgem of Spain and Italy, in regard to the law on
tbo subj. et. The law had been allowed to remain in pre-
cisely the eines slam here as it was immediately after the
Cowed of Trent, which, by its edict, declared that nun-
nertis should be defied, and all egress denied to the nuns
ors any pretence, without episcopal liatnee, under pain of
ca,ummunication. I t Mexico, where the population was
wholly Roman catLoiio, nunneries were halite to inspec-
ton at frequent in Is; nail the nuns wets questioned
by the 11111400 M as to whether they had any Cause of mem
and whether they wished to withdraw from the
L.,,; but in the convents here not only was there no is-
specties, but the nuns were not allowed to see their friends.
pie, no.) The hon. member might contradict him if he
pleased. but he spoke of his owu positive knowledge, haviog
himself been refund an interview with the nearest and
dearest relative he had in the world (an inmate ef one of
three establishments), eseept in the presence of the lady
superior. And Lot only was this the position of the nurse,
but no "postulant " was permitted to see anybody, except
in the presence of the lady ahbess. If hon. gentlemen
knew as much to he did of whit occurred in connexion
with these estaldiehencets, there would be no hesitation as
to their vote in the present occasion. The young and un-
suspectiso and the confiding wire enticed into them, espe-
cially when there was any Ortune—the whole of which the
moment the victim took the veal became the property of the
convent, and the unfortunate owner had no prospect bet
death of relief from her imprisonment.
Mr. BOWYER believed the particular case alluded to by
the hon. gentleman who hail just spoken was " not proven,
sail iloouted his statement as to the position of • ' postu-
lant.- A " postulant- was not even in the position of •
...deice;" but was a lay person who might come in sal pa
out of the convent as she pleased. The hon. and loseteed
gentleman who made the motion usumeet that an lam
were nu runaway nuns ever found hiding behind Wats
from priests anxious to catch them and bring them beak t•
their dungeons, that therefore the nuns were shut ap sod
treated with cruelty. He (Mr. B.) should have thought
that in this free country, where so many means existed
of milsing known any tyranny or wrong that might
bas perpetrated, the fact of there being no instance of
nuns seeking' to escape from their convents was a proot
of the utter groundlessness of the chair the hon. and
leaned member had brought. The hon. and learned gen-
'Masa had referred to certain cues—amongst others one
that had been alluded to by • right rev. prelate in another
place. That, however, was not the cage of a nun, but of a
boy, and be had beard that the family of that boy forced
themselves into the place where ho was confined, and found
him dreadfelly hendlel. Out was there no prosecution—
did the polies take no i.e.?* to bring the guilty parties to
iustice F That they did not sufficiently as he thought d.-
posed of the charge, and showed that it was a mere romauce
invented for • purpose. Ile believed that whenever a case
bed occurred is which an attempt hid been made to au-
thenticate it by names an I circumstances, it h id turned out
• complete " mare's nest." Tne case of the convent of
the " Used Shepherd," near London, was one in point.
There the chores, on investigation, was found to be
wholly greasiness, and he ought to add that the young
pawn who made it he afterwards saw in the convent
treated with the greatest kindness by the ladies she had so
grossly maligned. The popular excitement against convents
was ecirc.ly to be wondered at when they looked at the
violent newspaper articles, pamphlets, and speeches di-
rected against them. He did nut say that there were no
sash things as discontented nuns. It was possible
there were, but tture were discontented of every
class. With regard to the honourable and learned
gentleman's argument that luuatic asylums, workhouses,
rectories, and other places in which there were numbers of
persons, were now liable to be inspected by the officerslij
the law, that was answered by the fact that in all those esta-
blishments the persons in authority were acting under a
power delegated by the law, and it was but just that th
law should take steps fur ascertaining how that power was
exercised. Bat a convent was in all respects in the position
of • private house. The inmates became so voluntarily
and of their own tree will, and there was no power to
detain them if they wished to leave. (Cheers and Oh.")
In some countries, it was true, there existed a legal author-
ity to detain the nuns in the convents, and there inspection
wee provided, though he (Mr. Bowyer) by no mean, meant
to say that even in such eases inspection was desirable. He
would ask the house to consider the main provisions of this
bill. The question was were convents to exist at all in this
country ? If they were to be subject to the inspection of
an officer appointed by a government—(for aught
he knew a protestant Orange government, determined
to do all in its power to annoy the catholic)—to go with a
magistrate and pey into their convents, and to ask, perhaps,
impertinent and improper questions—such • provision
would be destructive ef the existence of these institutions

altogether. (Hear, hear.) The nuns would all leave
the country, and the advantages of convents as
educational establishments—(and the ladies of the
. . . .

higher classes were educated almost exclusively in
them, and the lower classes resorted to them extensively for

inetraction)—would be lost. hi hells& ageeiaily, the
convents conferred great advantages on the people.
(Hear, hear.) The parents es* friends of the children
educated in them bad also ages% and he should be
happy to afford the honourable eelhewed member the
means of visiting any convent be Owed, end jedging for
himself how very different things were earned on in these
institutions from what he supposed. They were republics
in their government. All the officers, from the superior to
the pottery's, and even the bishop, could not interfere with
the perfect freedom of election. The postulants were also
elected, and by ballot, and one black ball was sufficient to
exclude. In short, it was as difficult for a lady to get into
a first-rate convent as it was fur a gentleman to get into a
tint rate club. The priest was the mere chaplain of the es-
tablishment, and had eo power of interference, while every
nun had the power to write to the bishop under her own
seal whenever she plea.ed, and her seal was held inviolate.
With all these precautions it would be strange indeed if the
suppositions of the hon. and learned gentleman were
founded on anything more than his own imagination, and
the imagination of those who took the same view.
Mr. Serjeant MURPHY was sure that his hon. and
-learned friend who brought forward the motion would sop
on reflection that the popular feeling, on which he relied,
was not founded on any investigation of feet*, but on mere
idle rumour and unsupported calumny. There had been
instances in his experience when the accusations against
these establishments had formed the subject of inquiry in
the courts of law, and the result had always been that those
accusations were unfounded. He would ask, what
reason was given fur the introduction of the bill by
his learned friend. His learned friend talked of the
affiliation of convents to these en the continent, and
that nuns in comments in this country might be deported
abroad. It might be supposed that we were living in the
times described by Mrs. Radcliffe, and in which nuns were
mysteriously conveyed away from one convent to another.
But that argument was against his learned friend ; for he
!aid that nuns did not enjoy liberty here, and yet he ob-
jected to their being deported to the very places where he
said they could obtain it. On the last occasion that this
question was before the house he (Mr. Serjeant Murphy)
read a letter from Bishop Ullathorne, in which ha stated
that there ware no such prohibitions in *es to the
visits of relations of the inmates, bat that certain days of
tho week were allotted for those visits. He (Mr. &desist
Murphy) had three relations who were in con-
vents, and he always had atom to them, and
was permitted to hold unreserved and confidential
conversation with them alone. Nor was he a
solitary instance, and he would assert that no one was ever
denied such access. As to the care alluded to by the boa.
member for Cheltenham, it was investigated by the Lord
Chancellor, and he was of opinion that a proper discretion
had been exercised towards a person who was a ward of the
court. He (Mr. Murphy) denied that discontent existed in
nunneries, and in his own experience, when travelling Om
the Continent, he knew that in cases where there was full
liberty of ingress and egress allowed to the nuns there was
no desire on their part to ahead= their vows. If, then,
there was no prohibition against the visits of relations to
nuns, what difficulty would there be in any case in getting a
habeaa corpus f Then, as regarded the education afforded by
convents in Ireland, there was no Roman catholic lady of
the middle ranks who did not owe her education to the
convents ; and there was a class of nuns called the Order of
the Presentation, who afforded an excellent education to
the poorer classes of girls. If the inquisitorial system now
proposed was adopted, those establishments would be put
to flight, and the Roman catholic ladies of the middle and
lower classes in England and Ireland would be in a state of
educational destitution. The hon. and learned gentleman
then alluded to the stories which had been propagated to
influence the popular mind—suck as the history of Maria
Monk, which, on investigation, turned out to be untrue.
He appealed to the government, and especially to the noble
lord the Home Secretary, not to sanction the introduction
of the bill, which was an insult that would rankle in the
breasts of every Roman catholic in the kingdom ; and he
declared that any remissness on th4sart of the government
in this respect would be viewed with so much disfavour by
him, as to induce him to withdraw his support from those
who would sanction such a measure.

lMr.•
FREWEN, in reference to this question, mentioned
a case which had come under his notice, and in which a
clergyman in Susses was applied to for assistance and
advice by • young woman who had escaped from • con-
vent. It appeared that she was born of catholic parents, hut
having lived • good deal with an aunt of hers who was a
protestant, she had been converted; on which her lather
took her. against her will, to a cionv*,-,,t, where she was de-
tained until finditg an oPPort7unity she made her mope.
Ile mentioned this, Der,4"se A showed that the superiors of
a convent had dctaie'ed a person there against her will, and
therefore 'bin ought to be • law which permitted those
ennvents tti be visited, in order to ascertain if arty one was
dettlio, d in them against her will.
Mr. NEWDEGATE said no one could be better qualified
to answer the statements which had been male, with regard
to convents, than the hon. number for Dundalk, who hg
acted as secretary to Cardinal Wingate&