The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-17 00:00:00

me on a suhject of conjecture, suspicion, cr surmise ; and
when you come to that description of examination I can
only give you excessively loose information. With respect
to matters within my own knowledge, I will give you the
best information in my power. Such a fund as that to
' which I have referred exists with a view to enable the sub- "
scribers to it to iiiiiui. u" . orsociolee. tre fr.,ene:-:
rumour may be that that fund is at the Reform Club. (.4.
laugh.)
The Chief Commissioner : Then, as I understand, you
have never heard from any one that any money was found
fur you in reference to your election of 1530?—Colonel Ito-
milly : I have never been told that. I have supposed the
money was found for me; fur I have never been called on
to pay it.
Chief Commissioner : You have never had the curiosity
to know whether the fact was so or not?—Colonel Remaly:
I
Chief Commissioner : And you don't know who has the
disposal of that fund I—Colonel Hominy : I don't know of
my own knowledge.
Chief Commissioner : In 1852 you were again a candi-
date ?—Colonel Romilly : Yes.
Chief Commissioner : And in 1852 you were unsuccess-
fid ?—Colonel Romilly : Yes.
Chief Cemmissioner : Do you know if applications were
made to your committee in 1852 fur colour ticket. ? —Colonel
, I know that such applications were made.
Chief Commissioner: You stated you bad been informed
el that practice in 1550, and you set your face against it?
—Colonel Romilly I did.
Chief Commissioner: Did you also object to it in 1812?
—Colonel ltotuilly : I did.
Chief Commissioner : What did the contest of 1812 cost
you?—Colonel Romilly : There was a running account be-
tween me and Mr. Brent. The whole amount that I paid to
him in 1852 was 2201,, part of which went towards that
current account. That sum was not found me in the same
way as in 18.50. I paid Mr. Brent by cheque, on 27th
February, 1852, 20/., that was the current subscription. On
the 21st Juue I paid him 501.; on the 9th July,
501. ; and on the 12th August, 100/. The contest be-
gan in June, and the election took place in July.
Bow came you not to anticipate the came good fortune
would hot befall you in 1652 I—Well. I regretted after-
wards that I allowed the expenses of the first election to be
defrayed for me, and that I hod not paid them myself, and
1 determined not to do so again.
Did you communicate your regret to the party who was
to pay your expenses ?—I do not Remember that I did ; but
to the best of my recollection it is so. Mr. Brent may have
said so tome.
Is that the first time you were informed that any money
was paid after the election of 1650 i—l can make no otht r
answer than I have done.
By Mr. Anstey.—Ban any one ever told yeu that iny
money was paid after this election ?—No ; it is new to me,
certainly, that any money was paid.
Did you, then, pay nothing before the election yourself ?
—No.
But you know there were current expense., end that
these expenses were being incurred, and no objection was
made that you knew, or surmised or conjectured that the
parties were provided with funds in some way or other ?
—No.
Rad you any doubt that these anonymous, undefined
funds were funds for this purpose ?—No.
Why did you not inform yourself on that matter of
finance ?—That is a question of private motive on which I
can give no information.
Are you conscious of what the private motive was ?—lt is
so difficult to explain what private motives are.
Did you not ask any questions ?—I aid not ask any ques-
tions.
Did you not abstain, under the influence of the private
motive to which you refer, from asking the questions that
might have elicited the information we require ?—Yes.
Will you have the goodness to state what that private ac-
tive is ?—No, I cannot.
Why not I—Because you are putting metaphysical ques-
tions about private motives. I do not understand the nature
of your examination.
L will put it in another, and not in a metaphysical way—
Why did you not inform yourself upon a point on which
your ignorance is surprising ?—I have told you I was satis-
fied with a presumption with suspicion.
You have sincetold me that since that time you abstained
from asking questions?—lt was because I was satisfied with
my_suspieions that it came from a private fund.
You also say you had a private motive ?—I did not tell
you the motive was of the least importance.
What is your objection to telling what it was ?—I did not
say that I had any objection.
taut have you any objection ?—No, Ido not thir k I had

any objection. -
But what was the objection?—None.
Did you ever expect to have this question as to the csurse
from whence these expenses were paid gone into ?—I did not
think it likely that the question would be likely to be gone
into.
Did you originally think that anything of the kin! was
possible ?—Of course it was possible.
Was it in order that you might be able to say, " I do not
know that you have taken care not to know ?"—No, it was
not.
Still it occurred to you the question might be asked, and
still you did not inform yourself?—No, I did Lot.
Now, since you have received an invitation to attend here,
or rather since this commission was issued, or even since the
address to the Rouse of Commons was agreed to, has it oc-
curred to you that this would naturally be one f the first
questions put I—No, certainly not.
Have you any paper at home that would throw a light on
this subct ?—None whatever.
Did Lord Londesborough tell you that the expenses would
not fall on you eventually ?—No, Lord Loodeshorough did
not ; and Lord Loodesborough did not have any communi-
catinn with me on the subject of the expenses.
Did any one, at any time, inform you that the expenses
would not fall on you ?—No, not that I recollect.
In 1852, when you came down, were you told that the
expenses of former elections were paid ?-1 believe I was
told they were paid by Mr. Brent some time or other. I
am pretty sure I should have beard it if they had been paid
be the inhabitants, but I did not so hear it.
'Now, could you not, by way of conjecture, give the name
of any person who is likely to have been connected with the
fund, in connexion with which, in 1850, Tou appear to have
derived so much benefit in the way of conjecture ?—No
doubt i could conjecture the persons who are in the situa-
tion of being connected with different parties or persons
who managed that fund. I told you I had no knowledge on
that subject.
Do you conjecture that it was any one connected with the
liberal party 2—You are asking me about a conjecture.
• which can be obtained directly from the person who received

the money.
But Mr. Brent told to be received it from you ? [The
passage in Mr. Brent's evidence alleging this was here read,
and the gallant colonel in continuation said] :—lf Mr.
Brent said he received the money, it is a mistake ; and, if
so, you can get the facts better from me than from Mr.
Brent. If he received the money, I may have said some-
thing about 4001. at the outside ; but I have no belief on
the subject.
Do you dispute his statement?—No, I do not.
You say that persons who were connected with this fund
are persons connected with the liberal party ?—That is
your conjecture. I believe the person who is most sup-
posed to have connelioa with this fund is, when the party
is in power, the Secretary of the Treasury.
Who was that gentleman during your election in 18.50 ?
—Mr. Tuition.
And who is the gentleman at the present period ?—Mr.
Muter.
By Mr. Bireham : You say that during your canvass it
, week you that money would be necessary to carry on the
election, were you applied to for any t—l was not.
Did you believe at the time that the funds for carrying on
the election would be advanced by some person or other.
and that you would be called upon to reimburse them ?—I
supposed they would be advanced, and that I should be,
in all probability, celled open to reimburse the money.
If you had been called upon to reimburse them, were you
prepared to repay the money as far as any reasonable
meant was concerned ?—I was. I considered myself re-
sponsible for the repayment of the money. No subsequent
application was made to me, and if there had been I should
not have hesitated to reimburse the person all legal ex-
penses. Then we came to believe in the existence of a
private fund to promote the objects of a certain political
1 party, and that the general rumour is that such a fund
exists at the Reform Club.
Are you a member of the Reform Club ?—No, I am not.
Knowing this, when you were applied to for money for
the expense of your election in 1850, did you come to the
mediation that the money had been supplied from this pri-
vate fund, wherever it existed I—l did.
Did you not know the names of those persona who were
connected with the distribution of this private fund ?—I did
not more than by rumour.
Yon did not knew the names of laseers into whose
hands the monies were supposed to been paid or to be
expended ?—I did not.
Then it was your impression with respect to this general
rumour that there were some gentlemen either in the Re-
form Club or in some other place who had the distribution
of the private fund for the political purposes of that party??
—That was my impression. lam not a member of the Ite-
form Club, and was not at the time I have been a member
of the Reform Club.
Mr. Bircham ; I am a member of the Reform Club, and
my experience, Colonel Romilly, is the same as yours. I
know of the existence of a private fund from general ru-
mour, but who are the parties into whose bands the money
is paid, we through whose hands it passes 1 know nothir al
(Loud applause.)
By the Chief Commissioner: I told you I had no know-
ledge of the subject of the Reform Club baring anything to
do with it, neither did I conjecture that the Reform Club
was a party charged with the fund.
Colonel Romilly—l wish to correct a statement ill the
1 papers. It is reported that Mr. George Cooper stated that
' the impression was, that our object in not having recourse
to the corrupt practices of 18.52 arose from our changing the
' pest policy, and that we should be ultimately successful by
not taking that course. I wish, on my own part, to give
an emphatic denial to the imputation of that being the ob-
ject or the reason of our not having recourse to the corrupt
practices in 18.52. Our object and reason was, that we
considered it wrong and illegal. I had a communication
with Sir W. Somerville very shortly afterwards. After
it was settled who was to stand in conjunction with me,
land it was decided that no practices of that sort should
take place as far as we were concerned, and that we would
do as much in our power as we could to prevent its taking
place on the part of any other persons, for that
mime we thought it better to keep the control of the ex-
penditure in our own hands, or in hands responsible to us
for the expenditure. I may say we bad a very good pros-
pect of success, and thought we should find t other par-
ties not having recourse to corrupt we
I thought it not at all impossible tha %WM
t; 4 • ij 's/ 00
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73
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