The Express.
London, England, 1853-05-13 00:00:00

• the ateenrit of five Minions wu paid by issal property web&
mete fiction of the noYe lord's inanimation ; perhaps see-
(meth of that would he nearer the truth. • • (Rear, bear.)
' it wee impossible fur him to give any (nether minter to the
noble earl's question. . • .
Lord 0 E IiSTON E said that no stihtecUirtiltdextenltlib,
either in importance or in tlelieaci., This waviest the time to
h discuss it ; but wherever the Code arrived, after due notice,
h he should be most ready to meet the noble earl, not in
the character of the representative of any interest ; for he
could aware their lordships, not in parliamentary language,
' bat in that of a person who wan ACCUlrtonied to the ordinary
feelings of an honest men, a person who had the g I and
equal rights of his couutrytneo at heart, that he never
• wood, OA any question, take any party view, or advocate
any Waited interest whatever ; but would rather aim, on
all occasions, honestly to exhibit the principles of equality.
The Earl of DERBY said the noble lord who had just
sat down rims; have quite misapp-ehended what had fallen
from his noble friend (the Earl of Malmesbury), or he
would not have been under the impression that the noble
earl intended to make auy personal attack upon him ; still
less that the noble earl intended to speak in terms of die-
approbation (for he spoke just the contrary) of the come
mi!tee with whichthe noble lord was connected. With regard

to the proposal of his noble friend (the Earl of )lalmesbirry),
which this noble lord had characterised in somewhat strong

terms, he (Lortllfer by) would not express his opinion, that th;
plan was entirely matured; bat still it appeared to him to
he one intrinsically founded upon the principles of justice
tad equality towards the different classes ; and although he
had not assisted at that committee, of which he
was not a member, sad although he had not lately
perused their report, ho had a very strong impres-
sion that, so far from speaking with any disparage-
ment of the suggestions of his noble friend,
they stated that they involved much that was worthy of

'the Earl of DERBY said that the discussion bad not
arisen at all upon the distinction between landed and other
property, but upon real and personal property. It arose
out of the proposition which they understood hail been
submitted to parliament, by which • new and very heavy
tax would be imposed upon successions to real property—
property which was now exempt from the legacy duty, but
upon which burdens of a disproportionate amount had
been Lid for other purposes. His noble friend (the
Earl of Malmesbury) had perhaps fallen into
error when be spoke of the amount of the new
tax, when he spoke of it as reaching 2,000,0001. • be-
cause it he understood rightly the proposition of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, a considerable portion of it would
fall not upon real property, but upon personal property
which had been inherited by succession, or on which, being
under settlement, heavy charges had already been laid.
But, for his own part. ha was inclined to think that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had, perhaps prudently, an-
de d the amount which in • short time would be re-

that the government
bad data upon which to argue, but from what he had been
able to learn from private sources, he apprehended that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer might reckon on receiving,
io the course of a few years, from the tax upon real and
settled property, a sum far exceeding the 2,000,00 W. he
bad stated. (Hear, hear.) This was • matter of very con-
siderable importance, and being a portion of the financial
arrangements, it was one which it would be impossible to
amend in that house, and which they would find consider-
able difficulty rejection, even if they thought it was
fraught with serious consequences to the country. They
' ought, therefore, to know precisely what were the data
upon which the government based their calcolviona ; and
what the probable effect of the imposition of such a tax
would be not only upon individuals, but upon
the social position of the great masses of this
country. It was a subject upon which the im-
position of a tax of one or two millions might
be of very serious importance; but if three or four
millions should be the amount of a perpetual tax upon sue-
erasion to real property and property under settlement, and
therefore not capable of being converted into money, his
belief was thit the effect would be—though he did not
mean to say that that was intended by the government—in
a very short time to break down materially, and to compel
the partition of almost all landed property. (Cheers.) He
believed that the offset would be most oppressive and most
severe, not upon large properties only, but, in a measure,
much greater on properties of a moderate extent, which
would actually be rained by • measure of this kind.
((fear, bear.) It would therefore be the duty of that
house before such a measure was introduced, or. at all

*rents passed, to ascertain what would be its probable re-
sults; sod he begged, therefore, to ask the noble earl
(Lord Aberdeen). whom, however, he would not then pre+s
for an answer, whether he should object to the appointment
of a select oommittee of that house, to inquire iuto and re-
purt upon the subject ? That committee ought to have be-
fore it a Dumber of the most experienced solicitors, who
would be able Olive them valuable information on the
point. pillar, hear.
Earl k ITZWILLI)AII reminded their lordships that the

sonvenationa;OseZtlTeViaii;e7of the poor law. The
main question to be decided was, whether the rates should
be levied upon a local community or the great body of the
nation ? II they adopted the former view, then they
could be raised on real property, and real property only ;
for if they attempted to render personal property liable
they would encounter inextricable difficulties. Ile had
always been opposed to the income tax, but he had been in
favour of a tax upon property. The great objection to the
proposed tax cm wereesions was its great inequality. A
young sea 'eight emu into possession of an estate, and
hold it for a long life ; but while the property in that case
would only pay the tax once, another property might
change hands six or seven times within the
same period, and be naafis to contribute as
many times. He (Lord Pitxwilliam) did not
wish to diminish the amount to be raised one penny, but he
thought that an injudicious selection of a new tax had been
made. He should be sorry to be supposed not to concur
in the general financial policy of the government, but he
hoped this particular feature of the budget would be recon-
sidered. (Hear, hear.)
Lord STANLEY said the only reason why the govern
mcnt had not introduced • measure on the poor laws, was
the difficulty of dealing with it under the present pressure
of public business. He thought, however, that it would be
impossible to introduce • msasure of this kind in that
house.

The Marquis of SALISBURY disputed this last opinion
of tho noble lend. The best measure of poor-law reform
had been brought in by the noble lord then on the wool-
sack.

Th. subject then dropped.
THE CLITHEROE ELECTION CASE.

Lord BEAUMONT &ow the attoneles of the house to
the taut that the harm had sent no answer to the applica-
ties of the other home to ea•our in a joint address
to the crown, foraying her Majesty to appoint a
commission to inquire into the state of this borough.
As the ease might arias over and over again, it
wee highly desirable that the house should adopt
math definite course which might serve as a precedent.
If no Gas else made the motion it was the business of the
government to see that some answer should be returned to
the House of Commons.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said he was very glad the
NMe lord had brought this subject before the house, as he
limenght it was proper the house should coon to a decision
iron it. Some time ago a noble and learned lord asked him
what was his intention with regard to this address, and he
told him in answer that although he had moved that their
lordships should agree with other similar addresses which
bad been sent up from the House of Commons, it was not
his intention to make any such motion with regard to this
address; but that of course it was competent for any other
sells lord who thought proper to make such a motion. If
he seesilected might his noble and learned friend gave some
oaN olfintimation of such an intention, but he supposed he
=ram been mistaken. At all events it was com-
ber him or 'pay other noble lord to make the
sew, mid that not having been done he concluded that it
woe sit the wish or intentioned any noble lord to take such
bete% MA be, therefore, felt it iseastesat on him to pro-
pose • mew fswileir Iwahipo adepr with reference to
this visetter. Ameolog, es bedlll,lllol their lordship' were
disposed to errs is me edepthei Ile address of the Henna
Commons, it was siswerrify ..tender what was the proper
and suitable connote tam The best course to take, he
thought, would be to mon Oat the address be taken into
consideration that day ale samiths. That was the OMNI
they pursued with regard to all bills sent up from the other
house, and which they were not disposed to pass, and the
House of Commoas had discovered what their lordships had
doe* by searching the records of their proceedings. That
was considered the most courteous mode of proceeding
towards the other house, because be believed in former
times they did not move the postponement of
the reading of • bill for six months, but they
rejected it absolutely; and it was in consequence of its
being considered a more courteous proceeding towards the
other house that they had adopted the mode now usually
followed. Undoubtedly their lordships might proceed by
demanding a conference, and stating the reasons which led
them to differ from the address ; but he sbould humbly re-
commend that they should resolve that the address should
be considered that day six months. And then came the
question whether they would communicate that decision to
the House of Commons, or they should lead them to dis-
cover it from their lordships journals. On that subject he
had no decided opinion. He should, on the whole, be
; rather inclined to adopt the first mode, and make no cora-
-1 munieation to the House sof Commons. At the same time,
I if it should be thought more respectful to the House of
j Commons to communicate their decision, he bad no ob-
jection to panne that course ; but his opinion was in an
opposite direction. Ile would now move that the address
to her Majesty in relation to the borough of Clitheroe,
agreed to by the House of Commons and communicated to
this house by • conference on the I Ith of April last, be
taken into consideration that day sin months. Ile had no-
thing to add to that resolution, but if any of their lordships
should think it desirah'e to communicate is to the House
of Commons he should not urge any great objection to it.
Lord ST. LEONARD'S said he felt it h:s duty to read
the evidence in all these cases, and he thought it quite
impossible that in this ease they should agree with the ad-
' dress of the House of Commons. As there was a g
concurrence of opinion on that subject it was not at all ne-
cessary to discuss the matter. It appeared to him more re-
spectful to the House of Commons that they should not
communicate their decision to that house. They mhght de-
mand a conference, hut it appeared to him that by so
doing they would appear to be rather brewing their views on
the House of Commons.
Lord lIEDESDALE had hat woe communication with
other parties on this subject, ant!. he was rather disposed
to think that having come to the resolution proposed, they
ought to take a Moe means to communicate it to the other
j house. They should reireernher that this was a subject in
which the privileges of the House of Commons were eon-
' earned. Thy badsent them up a message, desiring them
!to oostot with them iu an address. They did not consider