1948-03-03

Mr. J. O. PROBE (Regina City):: I rise to a question of privilege, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday the hon. member for Comox-Alberni (Mr. Gibson), while I was temporarily absent from this chamber, made a charge, as reported at page 1786 of Hansard that I had, in effect, called the management and shareholders of H. R. MacMillan Export Company gangsters. I quote from the relevant portion of the hon. member's speech:
This man MacMillan and his so-called gang paid $7,660,000 in taxes to the federal treasury and yeit the hon. member for Regina Oity calls them a bunch of gangsters.
On the next page the hon. member is quoted as saying:
I think that if anyone is referred to as a member of a gang, he is a gangster.
In my speech on February 5 last, this is what I said, as reported at page 926 of Hansard:
In other words, the profits of the MacMillan gang who clipped the coupons were within fifty cents per share of the men who wenit out bo the fields and the forests and the mills to do the w'ork . . .
And so on. I realize, Mr. Speaker, that there is a natural tendency to give to words a meaning not always necessarily in accord with the intent of the speaker or writer, but rather in accord with the limited education, the type of experience and the nature of the past association of the listener. That is doubtless true of the hon. member for Comox-Alberni.


Mr. SPEAKER:: Order. The hon. member has stated his question of privilege, and he should not make any statement.


John Oliver Probe: I think it is necessary to give a definition of this-


James Horace King: Order. The hon. member has stated his question of privilege and should be satisfied.


John Oliver Probe: My point of privilege has not been stated, Mr. Speaker. It is this. I
did not, according to any standard dictionary which contains the word "gang" or otherwise, use that word in a sense that would give the imputation of gangster referred to by the hon. member for Comox-Alberni, nor had I any such intention. Therefore I ask through you, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. member withdraw the imputation which he made with regard to myself.


Mr. J. L. GIBSON (Comox-Alberni):: When I went to school, Mr. Speaker, I always understood that the singular of "gang" was "gangster". I am afraid I have not had access to the vast education of my hon. friend.


John Oliver Probe: That is obvious.


John Lambert Gibson: However, if he feels so badly about the matter, I should be glad to withdraw if he will also withdraw the imputation he made that the shareholders of the MacMillan company were members of a gang.


John Oliver Probe: I made no imputation whatever, Mr. Speaker, that the shareholders of the MacMillan company were members of a gang.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Oh, oh.


John Oliver Probe: I am happy that the hon. member has apologized.


James Horace King: I would call attention of hon. members to a rule which says that when the Speaker rises, the member who has the floor should resume his seat. It is important that this rule should be observed so that we may have order in this house. The hon. member has stated his question of privilege and should be satisfied. Now he is asking that the hon. member for Comox-Alberni withdraw certain remarks. It is not the practice to ask, on the day following, for the withdrawal of what has been said during debate on the day before.



TOURIST INDUSTRY


Right Hon. C. D. HOWE (Minister of Trade and Commerce):: Mr. Speaker, at the request of the hon. member for Eglinton (Mr. Fleming) that appears at page 1725 of
Czechoslovakia

Hansard, I table two copies of the reports of dominion-provincial tourist conferences held in 1946 and 1947.



CZECHOSLOVAKIA


[Stage Direction]
Right Hon. L. S. ST. LAURENT (Secretary of State for External Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I would like to communicate to the house two letters I received just a short while ago from the former minister of Czechoslovakia, addressed to the Secretary of State for External Affairs. The first, bearing date of March 3, 1948, is as follows:
Your Excellency,
I have the honour to inform you that I am announcing today to the Czechoslovak government in Prague my resignation, as envoy extraordinary and minister plenipotentiary of Czechoslovakia in Canada.
At the same time, Dr. Vladimir Moudry, first secretary, ;andi Dr. Karel Bala, commercial attache, are announcing their resignation to their respective departments of the Czechoslovak government in Prague.
The legation will be in charge of Colonel Jiaromir Petzold, MBE, who remains at his post.
I would appreciate it very much if you could kindly inform His Excellency the Governor General about my resignation, and convey to him my grateful thanks for all his kindness, which he has extended to me on so many occasions.
May I express to Your Excellency my warmest thanks for all your co-operation and assistance in my work in this country.
Accept, Excellency, the renewed assurance of my highest consideration.
Frantisek Nemee.
The second letter bears the same date and is also addressed to the Secretary of State for External Affairs:
Your Excellency,
Referring to my letter of March 3, I have the honour to announce to you that from the staff of the legation Miss Alzbeta Katzova and Miss Eva Blumenscheinova, both office secretaries at the legation, are sending their resignation today to their respective departments of the Czechoslovak government in Prague.
Frantisek Nemec.

[Stage Direction]
(Questions answered orally are indicated by an asterisk).

Mr. McKAY:: What expenditures have been made by the federal government under the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act during the years 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946 and 1947 in (1) Canada; (2) province of Saskatchewan?


Mr. GARDINER:: The Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act does not cover Canada but applies to the drought and soil drifting area of the prairie provinces, approximately two-thirds of which is in Saskatchewan and one-third in Alberta and Manitoba. The expenditures were as follows:
1. Year	Adminis- tration	Manitoba	Saskatchewan	Alberta	Total1942-43 	...140.063 11	125,279 96	1,284,319 38	179,692 32	1,729,355 771943-44 	...138,713 62	132,449 03	1,321,656 52	218,486 20	1,811,305 271944-45 	...188,577 01	185,388 11	1,292,614 31	252,295 50	1,918,874 931945-46 	...171,816 46	223,449 63	1,450,917 01	295,644 78	2,141,827 881946-47 	... 145,490 69	160,654 89	1,450,333 91	549,048 78	2,305,528 271947-48 	...144,033 56	119,766 35	1,249,714 18	370,238 26	1,883,831 552. See answer	to No. 1.	HIGHWATER, QUE.,	CUSTOMS OFFICE-	-H. M. CLARK	BARLEY-LOSSES	OF FARMERS	BETWEEN AUGUST


Mr. GAGNON:: 


AND OCTOBER 1947
[Stage Direction]
What language or languages are spoken by H. M. Clark, employed at the customs office of Highwater, Quebec?
Mr. WINTERS:: English and French.
Note: While Mr. Clark does not speak French fluently, he has been able to deal satisfactorily with travellers with whom he has been required to transact customs and excise business in French during the past thirty-one years.


Mr. DIEFENBAKER:: Has the government given consideration to the introduction of measures to provide for reimbursement of the loss suffered by farmers who sold barley between August 1 and October 19, 1947?


Mr. McILRAITH:: On March 1, at page 1723 of Hansard, the answer to this question was given orally by the minister.


James Horace King: Answered.

Questions


SYDNEY, N.S., PLATE MILL
Mr. GILLIS:: 1.	In what year was the plate mill at Sydney, Nova Scotia, first constructed?
2.	How much money did the Canadian government invest in the mill when it was first constructed ?
3.	Did this mill operate during world war I?
4.	What arrangements were made for the disposition of the machinery and equipment after world war I?
5.	On what date was this mill re-equipped for world war II?
6.	How much money did the Canadian government spend in equipping this mill for world war II?
7.	Who owns the mill at the present time and what arrangements have been made through War Assets Corporation for the disposition of machinery and equipment of this mill?


Mr. McILRAITH:: 1.	The plate mill was completed and started operations on February 11, 1920.
2.	Thjg Canadian government did not invest any moneys in the mill when it was first constructed.
3.	The mill did not operate during world war I.
4.	There were no arrangements made by the government for disposition of the equipment after world war I, inasmuch as it was the property of a private company.
5.	The re-equipment of the mill for world war II was completed on March 17, 1942.
6.	The Canadian government spent a net amount of $1,641,610.46 for equipping the mill for world war II.
7.	War Assets Corporation sold practically all the machinery and equipment purchased under capital assistance for the operation of the plate mill to the present owners, the Dominion Steel and Coal Corporation, with the exception of a few items which were disposed of by the corporation to the Steel Company of Canada Limited, and the government of the country of Czechoslovakia.


TAXES ON LIQUORS, TOBACCO, SOFT DRINKS AND AERATED BEVERAGES
Eric Bowness McKay: How much in federal taxes were collected in 1947 on (1) soft drinks and aerated beverages; (2) liquor; (3) tobacco?
Mr. WINTERS;
Statement showing Excise Duty and Excise Tax collected in Canada on Liquors, Tobacco, Soft drinks and Aerated beverages during the Fiscal Year 1946-47
(1) Soft drinks and aerated beverages 	 Carbonic Acid Gas 	 (2) Matured Spirits 	 Malt used in Beer		Domestic Excise Duty Excise Tax 	 $18,629,491 72 	 296,050 28 $ 48,849,698 79 	 49,208,815 75 	 2 511 310 55 			Importation Excise Tax $ 5,427 54 23 10	Totals $ 18,634,919 26 296,073 38 $ 48,849,698 79 49,208,815 75 2,511,310 55 91,699 88
	91,699 88 947,710 49			
Validation Fees 			2,393,717 80		947,710 49 2,393,717 80
				
Totals 		$101,609,235 46	$ 2,393,717 80		$104,002,953 26
(3)				
Mftd. Tobacco 	$ 10,345,377 70	$11,551,411 22	$ 88,168 85	$ 21,984,957 77Cigarettes 	90,127,923 29	61,908,268 24	70,563 16	152,106,754 69Cigars 	294,844 26	2,521,516 39	22,000 65	2,838,361 30Can. Raw Leaf 	394,367 40	156,324 64	550,692 04Totals 	$101,162,512 65	$76,137,520 49	$180,732 66	$177,480,765 80Sales 'tax breakdown commodities.	not available.	Statistics for sales	tax carried	in total for all
Questions

Customs duties collected on liquor, tobacco and soft drinks and aerated beverages during the fiscal year ended
March 31, 1947
Distilled	beverages	 S25.693.181*
Beer	 8,898*
Wine	 916,660*
Raw leaf tobacco	 755,266
Cigars	 36,523
Cigarettes	 100,029
Snuff	 1,534
Cut tobacco	 203,013
Other manufactured'	tobacco...	952
Mineral and aerated	waters

	8,517
Includes special war duties.


STEEL CONTROL
Mr. GILLIS:: 1.	What is the name of the steel controller for Canada?
2.	Who are the members of the steel control board?
3.	What powers has the steel control board?
4.	What steps are being taken by the steel controller to increase the production of steel plate and other steel products in short supply in Canada?


Mr. McILRAITH:: 1.	Frederick Kingston Ashbaugh.
2.	There is no steel control board.
3.	None (See answer immediately preceding).
4.	Steel slabs are being diverted from Sault Ste. Marie to Hamilton enabling steel producers there to increase their production of plate and other steel products.
Ingots and billets from Sydney are 'being diverted to Hamilton and Montreal for conversion into finished steel.
The use of a Bessemer converter at Sault Ste. Marie is speeding the open-hearth cycle there and will result in increasing ingot production up to a level of 70,000 gross tons per month.
Subsidization of scrap has resulted in the movement of a considerable tonnage into Canada as well as stepping up the flow into steel-making areas from outlying districts.
An additional blast furnace is being repaired and additional coke ovens installed at Sydney and will go into operation in the near future. Efforts are being made to arrange the adding of primary steel facilities at Hamilton.


PUBLIC DEBT
Mr. McKAY:: 1.	What is the (a) gross; (b) net; (c) funded debt of the federal government?
2.	How much of the public debt is owed (a) in Canada; (b) outside Canada?
3.	What was the public debt of the dominion of Canada in (a) 1943 (b) 1926; (c) 1938?


Mr. BELZILE:: 3.	March 31, 1913
Gross	debt	 $	483,232,555.24
Net debt	 314,301,625.68
Funded debt	 258,679,819.47
March	31,	1920Gross	debt	
S	3,041.529,586.91Net debt	
2,248,868,623.79Funded debt	
2,627,102,137.16March	31,	1938Gross	debt	
$	3,540,237,614.54Net debt	
3,101,667,570.25Funded debt	
3,314,558,031.86


SEED GRAIN LIENS-SASKATCHEWAN
Mr. THATCHER:: 1.	What is the dollar value of 1914 and 1915 seed grain liens still outstanding in Saskatchewan ?
2.	Of this amount, how much is (a) interest; (b) principal?
3.	Has the government made any recent effort to collect these liens?
4.	Has the government given any consideration to cancelling these liens?


Mr. GLEN:: 1.	1914, $11,947.80; 1915, $1,587,059.89.
2.	1914-interest $7,322.79, principal $4,625.01; 1915-interest $946,393.22, principal $640,665.67.
3.	The government has not made any unusual or special effort to collect these liens in recent years. However, payments are being received in the department to apply on the advances.
4.	Requests have been received from time to time that there should be a general cancellation of the liens but no such action has

Questions
been taken. The Debts Due the Crown Act, chapter 51, 17 George V, 1927, provides a means whereby the amounts owing under the liens can be adjusted. Applications for adjustment are continually being considered and dealt with by the seed grain adjustment board.


UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE-INVESTIGATIONS BY R.C.M.P.
Mr. KNOWLES:: 1.	In what cities, towns, villages and remote areas have investigations of persons drawing unemployment insurance benefits been made by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police at any time since July 1, 1945?
2.	How many such investigations by Royal Canadian Mounted Police have been made in each of the cities, towns, villages and remote areas?
3.	Under what authority have Royal Canadian Mounted Police been used for this purpose?


Mr. COTE (Verdun):: 1.	Manitoba	Whitemouth	 5
Lac du Bonnet____ 2
Pine Falls	 1
Sprague	 1
Ontario	Red' Lake	 4
Sioux Lookout

	8
McKenzie Island ..	1
Dryden	 5
Richan	 1
Saskatchewan Royal Lake		1
Donegal	 1
Alberta	Jasper	 1
Total	31
2.	Answered1 by No. 1.
3. Under authority of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and at the request of the unemployment insurance commission.


SUBSIDIES ON RYE GRAIN
Mr. CAMPBELL:: How much has been paid in subsidies on rye for domestic consumption, for (a) feed; (b) flour: (c) liquor in the years 1944 to 1948?


Mr. BELZILE:: (a) and (b) Commodity Prices Stabilization Corporation Ltd., paid domestic subsidies on rye grain used in the manufacture of rye flour and rye meal sold on and after January 1, 1944, to September 15, 1947, as follows:
1944 			 63,088.12
1945 			 37,712.08
1946 			 228,746.56
1947 			 216,072.59
Total	 545,619.35


INCOME TAX-DEPRECIATION
Mr. McMASTER:: 1.	What proportion of special depreciation applied for and allowed under section 6, subsection I (n) (ii) of Income War Tax Act have been applied by the persons interested in reduction of their taxes for the following years: 1944, 1945, 1946?
2.	What were the respective amounts of the ten largest allowances for (a) buildings; (b) other purposes?


Mr. WINTERS:: 1.	I regret that it is not possible to answer this question in the form in which it is asked as statistics are not maintained by the taxation division tabulating, by years, the amounts of special depreciation under section 6, subsection 1 (n) (ii) of the Income War Tax Act which have been allowed as deductions for tax purposes in determining net taxable income.
I can, however, say to the hon. member for High Park that from the 10th November, 1944 to the 31st March, 1947, which was the period in which taxpayers were entitled to file claims for special1 depreciation under the terms of this particular subsection, the Department of Reconstruction and Supply has issued 8054 certificates of approval to 4212 taxpayers authorizing special depreciation to the total amount of $1,392,282,000.
Moreover, full statistical information with respect to the allocation and distribution of this amount by:-
(a)	provinces; (b) major cities and other areas; (c) type and size of expenditures, and by industry; (d) size of investment, and by industry; (e) industry on a per 1,000 employee basis; (f) economic classification of expenditure, by size of investment, and by industry; may be found in the pamphlet entitled "Encouragement to Industrial Expansion in Canada" which was published under date of the 8th January, 1948, by the Department of Reconstruction and Supply.
2.	Answered by No. 1.


FOREIGN EXCHANGE-PAYMENT IN U.S. DOLLARS TO ORCHESTRAS, SINGERS, ETC.
Mr. WHITE (Middlesex East):: 1.	How many United States dollars have been paid to United States orchestras and dance bands playing on Canadian programs in Canada since July, 1946 until November 17, 1947?
2.	How many United (States dollars have been paid to (a) United States orchestras and dance bands; (b) other American artists, singers and musicians for Canadian programs since November 17, 1947?
(c) Nil.
Questions


Robert Henry Winters: 1 and 2. No information. The records of the foreign exchange control board are not maintained on such a basis as to provide the information requested.
The following information has been supplied by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation:
1.	Nil.
2.	(a) Nil; (b) $4,281.25.


WARTIME HOUSING-NORTH VANCOUVER PROJECT
Mr. LOW:: 1.	Did the Central Mortgage Corporation recently conclude an agreement with the city of North Vancouver providing for a 20 per cent increase in rental rates on wartime housing units situated in that city?
2.	If so, for what specific reasons?
3.	How many houses are included in the North Vancouver project?
4.	What was the average cost of construction of these units?
5.	What has been the average yearly maintenance cost of the units in North Vancouver?


Mr. McILRAITH:: 1.	The answer to part 1 is no. However, Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation has agreed to collect on behalf of the municipality taxes levied by the municipality on the tenants in amounts varying from $4.00 to $4.50 per month.
2.	Answered by part 1.
3.	There are 695 houses in the city of North Vancouver project.
4.	The average cost of construction of these units was 12,860.67.
5.	For economy of administration projects in any one urban area, such as greater Vancouver, are grouped under the management of one office and costs are recorded in one over-all accounting system. No separate maintenance cost records are maintained for individual projects in one urban area. The following table shows the average maintenance cost per unit for units under administration in greater Vancouver.
No. of units under Admini-
Period	stration at end of period.
April	1,	1944	to March 31, 1945	
759	housesApril	1,	1945	to March 31, 1946	
1,393	housesApril	1,	1946	to December 31, 1946	
1,865	housesYear 1947	>	
2,172 houses
Average Maintenance cost per unit.

(1) This amount of $48.45 average unit maintenance cost, included expenditures for exterior painting and roadway maintenance which averaged $31.80 per unit.


HYDE PARK AGREEMENT-EMPIRE PREFERENTIAL TRADE
Mr. CHURCH:: 1.	What is the effect of the variation of the original Hyde Park agreement on preferential trade within the British empire?
2.	Is the agreement valid without the consent of parliament?
Mr. ST. LAURENT:
1.	None.
2.	The joint declaration of April 20, 1941 was not an international agreement of the kind for which, as a matter of constitutional practice, the approval of the houses of parliament is required. It was a joint statement of the administrative policies which the two governments proposed to follow in respect of the subject matter of the declaration.


LIFE INSURANCE-LOANS TO POLICYHOLDERS
Mr. CHURCH:: 1. What rate of interest are life insurance companies allowed to charge on loans to policy holders whose premiums are paid (a) by contract, if the rate of interest is named for loans in the text of the policy; (b) if loan is made not according to text of contract?

2. What was this rate during the last war and after the last war, and what is the increase, if any, in such rates charged policy holders for loans?


Mr. BELZILE:: 1.	(a) If the rate is specified in the contract, the company may charge any rate not exceeding the specified rate but in practice no life insurance company, whether Canadian, British or foreign, transacting business in Canada charges Canadian policyholders a rate in excess of 6 per cent effective per annum and a great many companies charge only 5 per cent even where a higher rate is specified.
(b)	All policies of life insurance issued by companies, except some issued many years ago, contain a provision for policy loans and the maximum rate of interest is invariably specified. In cases where there is no loan provision and hence no specified rate, the practice is the same as described in (a), namely, to charge a rate not exceeding 6 per cent effective per annum and in many companies the rate is only 5 per cent.
2.	Prior to January 1, 1936, the rate of interest on policy loans varied up to 8 per cent per

Questions
annum but in 1935 all life insurance companies transacting business in Canada gave an undertaking to the government that the maximum rate would be reduced as from January 1, 1936 to 6 per cent effective per annum, such reduction to apply to both outstanding and new loans. The great majority of companies charged rates varying from 5J per cent to 6 per cent during the early years of the war of 1939-1945 but in 1944 many companies reduced the rate further to 5 per cent. There has been no important change since then, either by way of increase or decrease.


WAR SAVINGS CERTIFICATES
Mr. HATFIELD:: Will the government consider changing the regulations regarding payments of war savings certificates in order that the holder might endorse them and have them cashed at any bank ?


Gleason Belzile: A full statement giving the reasons for the necessity of having war sav-
Company	1942-43
Can. Vickers	 S2,973.00
Dom. Bridge	 6,131.73
Dom. Rubber	 984.59
R.C.A. Victor	 1,760.25
United Shipyards	 801.44
Bepco	 2,467.99
Marine Industries	 745.50
Anglo Can. Pulp	
Cosmo Underwear	
Defence Industries	
Dom. Textile	
Joliette Foundry	
Joliette Steel	
Lefebvre & Bros	
March Tool Industries ..,
Northern Electric	
Victoriaville Foundries .. Regent Knitting Mills ... Aluminum Co. of Can. ..
British Rubber Co	
Can. Converters	
Dionne Spinning Mills ... Dominion Gaiter Co. ...
Fairchild Aircraft	
Klein Mfg. Co	
Montreal Cottons	
Sorel Industries	
Standard Machine Shop . Switlick Can. Parachute .
Belding Corticelli	
Canadian Children's Wear Rolland Paper Co	
mgs certificates redeemed at Ottawa was given by the Minister of Finance in the House of Commons on Wednesday, February 25, 1948.


LABOUR CONDITIONS-WAR EMERGENCY TRAINING PROGRAM
Mr. COLD WELL:: 1.	Under the war emergency training program what companies in the province of Quebec received money either directly or indirectly from the dominion government?
2.	How much money was received under this program by each of these companies in each year in which the program was in operation?


Mr. COTE (Verdun):: 1 and 2. From the appropriation for training war workers, the under-noted amounts were paid in each of the fiscal years indicated to the following companies in Quebec for the operation of plant schools under the supervision of war emergency training program.
1943-44	1944-45	1945-46$128,990.87	$23,452.66	$ 2,299.034,550.06	54,182.02	6,995.96	1,508.58	170.004,413.80	6,152.48	10,391.96	5,513.70	3,366.79	694.99	1,926.07	400.00	5,748.51	10,858.94	235.61120.00	60.00	400.00	145.00	7,597.33	4,623.45	3,258.40	5,978.41	25,441.92	13,757.1325,692.98	7,635.562,079.72	15,292.59	5,696.44	6,067.9021,756.21	1,486.69	1,974.7146,019.13	45.00860.00	170.0020.00	10,347.83	2,273.55551.992,079.41	
Questions


R.C.A.F. COMMISSIONED OFFICERS
Mr. McCULLOUGH (Assiniboia):: 1.	How many commissioned officers were there in the Royal Canadian Air Force, as of January 31, 1948?
2.	How many of these were of nationality other1 than Canadian?
3.	What was -the rank and nationality of each such officer?


Mr. LAPOINTE:: 1.	1,945.
2.	Eleven.
3.	2 Squadron Leaders-U.S.A.
4 Flight Lieutenants-U.S.A.
4 Flying Officers-U.S.A.
1 Flying Officer-Polish.
These officers served in the R.C.A.F. during the war and continued in that force in the peacetime organization. They have filed a declaration of intention to become Canadian citizens but the time required for Canadian citizenship has not 5'et elapsed.


ALUMINUM
Mr. KNOWLES:: 1.	What was the total quantity of aluminum in all forms exported from Canada in (a) 1944; (b) 1045; (c) 1946; (d) 1947?
2.	What is the total quantity of aluminum in all forms wrhieh it is anticipated will be exported from Canada in 1948?
3.	Of such quantities, what portion was produced or will be produced by facilities in Canada and/or in British Guiana on which the government allowed 160 per cent depreciation during world war II?
4.	To what extent is the Aluminum Company of Canada now making use of aluminum producing facilities in Canada and British Guiana on which the company was allowed 100 per cent depreciation during world war II?
5.	To what extent is use now being made of the Aluminum Company of Canada's power facilities -at -Shipshaw on which the company was allowed 60 per cent depreciation during world war II?
6.	What are the current prices of aluminum, domestic and export?


Mr. McILRAITH:: 1.	Exports of aluminum: Scrap	
Bars, blocks, ingots, and blooms
Rods, sheets, plates, etc	
Kitchen utensils	
Wire and cable	
Mfgs., n.o.p	
Total value	
2.	No information.
3.	Information not available.
4.	Information not available.
5.	Information not available.
1944	1945	1946	194736,040	130,335	129,135	216,035$	214,572	770,825	935,670	1,934,6815,904,532	7,645,729	3,746,717	4,274,317$	93,493,588	121,778,512	49,146,887	52,610,74162,485	37,821	48,977	77,967%	2,310,424	1,070,2S1	1,307,178	2,068,164... $	779	86,763	663,776	1,163,510.. s	59,498	1,049,797	1,219,416	2,529,927... $	9,441,522	8,810,816	2,757,112	3,648,551.. s	105,520,383	133,566,994	59,030,039	63,955,574


Mr. McILRAITH:: 1.	Yes.
2.	(a) 14 have been sold as of February 25, 1948; (b) 320 have been leased.
6.	The price of aluminum ingot is 15c. a pound, delivered at the works of any firm in Canada. The export price is also 15c. a pound, f.a.s.


HOUSING-MOOSE JAW
Mr. THATCHER:: 1.	Does the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation now look after , all houses built by Wartime Housing Limited?
2.	How many of such units have been fa) sold; (b) leased, in the city of Moose Jaw?
3.	If the lessee does not wish to purchase the house occupied, is action taken to dispossess such lessee where a sale is made?
4.	What notice must be given a veteran to vacate?
5.	Does the corporation in -all cases find the veteran an alternate location?
3.	In the event that a tenant does not wish to purchase the house he occupies, and another purchaser is available for that house, the tenant may be given notice to vacate, provided there is available to him, on a rental basis, another housing unit administered by the corporation in the same locality.
4.	Thirty days notice is required under the terms of the tenant lease.
5.	Yes.


FARM IMPLEMENTS
Mr. FAIR:: 1.	What is the value of farm machinery manufactured in Canada in each of the years 1940 to 1947 inclusive?

Questions
2.	What is the value of farm machinery exported each of the above years?
3.	What is the value of farm machinery imported each of the above years?


Mr. McILRAITH:: 1. Value of farm machinery produced in Canada, 1940-1947:
1940		 818,285,000
1941		 22,411,000
1942		 19,638,000
1943		  18,930,000
1944		 26,297,000
1945		 38,701,000
1946		 50,000,000
1947		 not yet available
2.	Value of farm machinery exported from Canada during the years 1940 to 1947:
1940		 $ 9,537,256
1941		 11,872,880
1942		 9,121,748
1943		 10,283,789
1944		 13,433,857
1945		 20,196,085
1946		 26,661,562
1947		 42,237,917
3.	Value of farm machinery imported into Canada during the years 1940 to 1947:
1940		 $30,673,217
1941	  30,994,624
1942		 23,643,799
1943		 20,228,341
1944		 40,611,124
1945		 50,435,476
1946		 68,351,742
1947		 105,404,869


HEALTH AND WELFARE-VENEREAL DISEASE CONTROL
Mr. DECHENE:: What part has been taken at the world health organization by the venereal disease control division, Department of National Health and Welfare?


Mr. MARTIN:: The world health organization requested that the venereal disease control division of the Department of National Health and Welfare offer suggestions and provide certain information relating to the international aspects of venereal disease control. In reply, the division forwarded to the executive-secretary of the world health organization:	(a) a resume of advanced
methods of treatment of contagious syphilis and gonorrhoea and of diagnostic and laboratory procedures in venereal disease control; (b) an outline of the organization in Canada of federal and provincial venereal disease services; (c) copies of current venereal disease
acts and regulations in force throughout Canada; and (d) comments with respect to certain international aspects of venereal disease control.


MOTOR VEHICLES
Mr. FAIR:: 1.	During each of the years 1940 to 1947 inclusive, how many automobiles were (a) made in Canada; (b) imported into Canada;
(c)	exported out of Canada?
2.	During the same period, how many trucks were (a) made in Canada; (b) imported into Canada; (c) exported out of Canada?


George James McIlraith: 1. Automobiles
Made	Imported	Exportedin	into	fromYears	Canada	Canada	Canada(a)	(b)	(c)1940 ....	...109.911	15,155	18,1451941 ....	... 96,603	2,672	12,3151942 ....	... 12,236	327	5,2831943 ....	21	1721944 ....	35	621945 ....	... 1.868	236	441946 ....	... 91,871	18,642	23,4511947 ....	...165,448	35,570	41,5502. Trucks	1940 ....	...113,102	1,633	66.0471941 ....	... 173,588	799	130,3041942 ....	.. .216,057	560	159,3771943 ....	... 178,064	712	165,9101944 ....	... 158,038	1.851	144.1511945 ....	... 130,777	552	122,7681946 ....	... 79,657	3,166	44,6601947 ....	... 91,683	6,289	42,215PALESTINE	COMMISSION


Mr. CHURCH:: 1.	Who are the five members, and of what countries, as announced by the UNO, appointed as commission for the partition of Palestine?
2.	What stand did Great Britain take on it?
Mr. ST. LAURENT;
1.	Already answered by Mr. Harris (Grey-Bruce) on February 25, 1948.
2.	The United Kingdom delegate abstained from voting on the general assembly resolution of November 29, 1947, which provided for the partition of Palestine with economic union.
During the debate, however, he had indicated that his government would not be responsible for implementing a plan against the wishes of either the Arab or Jewish inhabitants of Palestine. He added that, if his government were asked to participate in implementing by force an assembly decision,
Questions

it must reserve the right to consider the justice of the decision and the amount of force required to put the plan into effect.


RECONSTRUCTION-VOTE OF $10,000,000
Mr. McCULLOUGH (Assiniboia):: 1.	How much of vote 600, of $10,000,000 of 1946-47 estimates has been spent on reconstruction projects?
2.	What amount was spent on each specific project?


Mr. McILRAITH:: 1.	$269,226.09.
2.	Project-Amount spent on each specific project-
Red Deer river diversion project: Ground surveys in connection with this project under the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act, $103,951.12.
South Saskatchewan river project: Surveys in connection with this project under the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act, $135,273.97.
Landing field at Pickle Lake, Ontario: Contribution towards construction of an extension to a landing field at Pickle Lake, $5,000.00.
Baie Comeau, Que.: Development work of air-landing facilities, $25,000.00.
(As set forth in public accounts, 1947, part II, page VA-22)


Mr. DIEFENBAKER:: 1.	How many judges, by provinces, have been appointed to (a) court of appeal; (b) supreme or superior court; (c) county or district courts since December, 1921?
2.	Of the above how many were appointed under (a) governments headed by the present prime minister; (b) by the Bennett government ?


Mr. ILSLEY:: Supreme and	County or
Court of	Superior	DistrictProvince	Appeal	Courts	CourtsOntario 	36	95Quebec 	55	10(Circuit Court)	New Brunswick 	
2	7	6Nova Scotia 	12	14Prince Edward Island 	
-	5	5Manitoba 	
10	13	19British Columbia	
16	16	23Saskatchewan 	
6	7	22Alberta 	
13	15	23Ontario 	
(a) 17	29	83(b) 2	7	12Quebec 	
(a) 16	43	10(b) 1	12	-New Brunswick	4	5(b) 2	3	1Nova Scotia 	
(a)	9	10(b) -	3	4Prince Edward Island	
(a) -	5	5(b) -	-	-Manitoba 	
(a) 9	11	19(b) 4	2	-British Columbia	
(a) 15	14	21(b) 1	2	2Saskatchewan 	7	19(b) -	-	3Alberta 	
(a) 12	14	22(b) 1	1	1

Questions


DEPARTMENT OP LABOUR-ANNUITIES BRANCH
Mr. KNOWLES:: 1.	What was the total number of retirement annuity plans for employees in force under the annuities branch of the Department of Labour in 1920, 1925, 1930. 1935, 1940, 1945, 1946 and 1947 in each of the following classifications: (a) governmental bodies such as federal, provincial or municipal; (b) private companies and other non-governmental employers?
2.	What was the total valuation of retirement annuity plans for employees in force under the annuities branch of the Department of Labour for each of the above years, in each of the above classifications?
3.	What was the cumulative total of individual annuity contracts issued by the annuities branch of the Department of Labour, as at the end of 1920, 1925, 1930, 1935, 1940, 1945, 1946 and 1947?
4.	How many persons are engaged in selling or making known the availability of government annuities (a) for group plans for companies, etc.; (b) for individuals?
5.	In what other ways does the annuities branch advertise its annuity plans?


Mr. COTE (Verdun):: 1. (a) and (b) Number of retirement annuity plans in force for employees under the Government Annuities Act:
				Non-
			Govern-	Govern-
			mental	mental
Total	Bodies	EmployersMarch 31,	1920	0	it	1925	0	U	1930	0	it	1935	0	it	1940	4	0	4it	1945	270	19	251tt	1946	433	41	292tt	1947	612	56	556
Note-These figures include only retirement plans administered under group contract, excluding some 200 small plans which are administered by individual contracts and are so recorded.
2.	The valuations of annuities under retirement plans and annuities under individual contracts are not segregated and this information is, therefore, not available.
3.	The cumulative total of individual annuity contracts issued is as follows:
March 31,	1920	4,836It	1925	6,542it	1930	11,521it	1935	22,736it	1940	58,915(t	1945	87,268tl	1946	95,451it	1947	108,6254.	(a) and (b) 61 whole-time, 17 part-time annuities representatives, in addition to every postmaster or acting postmaster of any post office or sub-post office in the Dominion of Canada where money order business is transacted, other than those whose salaries are paid on a city office basis.5.	The display and distribution of advertising matter by postmasters throughout the country; the use of direct-mail advertising. On occasion space is used in daily newspapers, magazines, farm and labour publications.


UNEMPLOYMENT
Mr. KNOWLES:: 1.	What is the total number of unemployed persons in Canada, by regions, as at the latest available date?
2.	What were the corresponding figures as at the same date one year and two years ago?


Paul-Émile Côté: Unplaced applicants registered at N.E.S. offices as at the dates shown were as follows:
Feb.	Feb.	Feb.19/48	20/47	21/46Canada 	200,124	195,238	259,227Pacific region 	31,232	31,232	33,245Prairie region 	32,310	37,359	39,540Ontario region ....	53,597	51,072	79,491Quebec region 	57,083	50,954	85,037Maritime region ..	25,902	27,561	21,914


PRINCE ALBERT JUDICIAL DISTRICT-DISTRICT COURT VACANCY
Mr. DIEFENBAKER:: 1.	How long has the vacancy in the district court bench in Prince Albert judicial district continued?
2.	What is the reason for the delay in the appointment?


Mr. ILSLEY:: 1.	Since January 1, 1947.
2.	As the volume of judicial work in the Prince Albert district since the retirement of Judge Doak has been such that the judges from Humboldt and Melfort districts have been able to perform it in addition to the duties in their own districts, it has not so far been deemed necessary to appoint a successor.


EXPORT OF ELECTRIC POWER
Mr. CHURCH:: What was the total amount of power exported by power companies of the provinces of Quebec *and Ontario to the United States during the last year of record?


George James McIlraith: Amount of electrical power exported during fiscal year 1946-47-kilowatt years.
From Ontario, 195,168; from Quebec, 72,716.

Questions



AGRICULTURAL PRICES SUPPORT ACT

Mr. McCULLOUGH (Assiniboia):: 1.	How much has been spent under the Agricultural Prices Support Act, since it was passed in 1944?
2.	For what purposes, and to what amount, has this act been invoked?


Mr. GARDINER:: 1.	$807,618.90.
2.	Administration, $75,212.23.
To meet the net operating loss of the meat board, the daily products board, and the special products board in respect to overseas contracts for 1946-47, $109,305.18.
Price support in respect to the 1946 potato crop in the eastern provinces, $123,101.49.
Price support in respect to the 1947 apple crop in Nova Scotia, S500,000.00.



INCOME TAX-FARMERS-INSPECTORS, ALBERTA AND SASKATCHEWAN

Mr. BENTLEY:: Has there been, and are there now, the same number of income tax inspectors in proportion to the numbeT of farmers in all provinces as there are in Alberta and Saskatchewan?


Robert Henry Winters: 

EXPORT OF URANIUM

Thomas Langton Church: What was the total amount of uranium exported by Canada to the United States during the last throe years of record, and value of the same?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The security regulations of the atomic energy board make it not in the public interest to answer this question.


James Horace King: Dropped.



CANADIAN ARMY-OFFICERS

Mr. McCULLOUGH (Assiniboia):: 1.	How many commissioned officers were there in the Canadian army, as of January 34, 1948?
2.	How many of these were of nationality other than Canadian?
3.	What was the rank and nationality of each such officer?


Mr. LAPOINTE:: 1.	2,290.
2.	One.
3.	Major-U.S.A. This officer served in the Canadian Army on active service during the
	|
war and continued in that force in the peacetime organization. He has applied for Canadian citizenship. He is at present serving outside Canada and cannot be granted Canadian citizenship until his return.



QUALIFICATIONS FOR ENLISTMENT IN CANADIAN FORCES

Mr. McCULLOUGH (Assiniboia):: 1.	Is it a necessary prerequisite that a person be a Canadian citizen to enter the Canadian army, navy or air force?
2.	If not, what are the regulations in each case?


Mr. LAPOINTE:: 1.	No.
2.	Must be British subjects.



CANADIAN NAVY


Mr. McCULLOUGH (Assiniboia):: 1.	How many commissioned officers were there in the Canadian navy, as of January 31, 1948?
2.	How many of these were of nationality other than Canadian?
3.	What was the rank and nationality of each such officer?

Questions


Mr. LAPOINTE:: 1.	R.C.N. and R.C.N. (Reserve) 1,199.
2.	5.
3.	Rank	Nationality
2 A/Captain	British subject
1	Constructor Captain ___British subject
2	Lieutenant Commander . .British subject



NEW LONDON, P.E.I., BREAKWATER

Mr. McLURE:: 1.	What was the cost of repairing New London breakwater in Queens county, Prince Edward Island, in 1947?
2.	Was this work done by contract or day labour ?
3.	If by day labour (a) who wrere employed; (b) and what amount was paid each employee?
4.	Who was the foreman and what did he receive for his services?
Mr. FOURNIER (Hull);
1.	Expenditure to January 1, 1948-$4,069.83. (Work completed in February 1948, but returns of expenditure for this month have not yet been received).
2.	Day labour.
3. (a)	(b)
Name of	Amount paid
employee	each employee
Everett McLeod	$ 291.20
Milton McKay	230.20
George Murphy	68.00
Watson Jost	148.00
Oliver Coles	158.00
Robert Jollymore	18.00
Robert Carr	128.00
Louis Coles	128.00
Williard Coles	108.00
Waldon Duggan	32.00
Horace Meek	28.00
Harry Underhill	12.00
Hall Burt	8.00
Francis McKay	8.00
James Cole	2.00
John R. McKenzie	2.00
Leslie Haynes	12.00
George Coles	74.00
Bruce Murphy	2.00
	$1,457.40
4. (a) Everett McLeod; (b) $291.20.



BARLEY-EXPORT PERMITS TO UNITED STATES

Mr. WINKLER:: For what derivatives of barley grain or processed matter of which barley has been the principal ingredient, are export permits to the United1 States of America now' available to manufacturers?


George James McIlraith: Only for barley malt within quota limitations.



SUBSIDIES ON BYE GRAIN

Mr. WRIGHT:: 1.	What was the amount of subsidies paid on rye consumed in Canada in the years 1942 to 1947 inclusive?
2.	What was the minimum and maximum subsidy per bushel for each of the years.
Mr. BELZILE;
1. Commodity Prices Stabilization Corporation Ltd. paid domestic subsidies on rye grain used in the manufacture of rye flour and rye meal sold on and after May 1, 1943 to September 15, 1947 as follows:
1943	-	$ 9,165.241944	-	63,088.121945	-	37,712.081946	-	228,746.561947	-	216.072.59

2. The amount of subsidy per bushel varied with the cost of rye grain, but the basis on which subsidy was calculated remained constant throughout the period. The subsidy was equal to the amount by which the cost of grain used in the manufacture of rye flour, or rye meal, (varied by appropriate charges and grade differentials in order to convert the cost into terms of rye No. 2 CW Fort William or Vancouver) exceeded 66fc. per bushel.



INCOME TAX-BELLEVILLE OFFICE

Mr. DROPE:: 1.	How many employees were there in the income tax office at Belleville, Ontario, as of January 1, 1945, 1946, 1947 and 1948?
2.	What was the total income tax collected in bach of the fiscal years of 1945 to 1947 inclusive, at this office?


Mr. WINTERS:: 1. 1st January, 1945, 64; 1st January, 1946, 77; 1st Januaiy, 1947, 82; 1st January, 1948 121.
2.	Fiscal year 1944-45, $10,681,538; fiscal year 1945-46, $10,196,018; fiscal year 1946-47, $7,674,880.



ALBERTA MUSKRAT PROJECT, ATHABASKA RIVER

Mr. DECHENE:: 1.	Has the dominion government any further information to give with respect to the Alberta muskrat project in the delta of the Athabaska liver near Fort Chipewyan?
2.	What has been the result of the negotiations with the Alberta government which controls the lands outside the Indian reserves in the area?
3.	Has the Alberta government taken the necessary action to enable the dominion government to proceed with the prompt development of the project?
Questions


Mr. GLEN:: 1.	A preliminary survey of the provincial lands was carried out by the provincial government during 1947. A final report has not
yet been received.
2.	A preliminary report has been received, however, which indicates that due to unusual water conditions on the marshes further work will have to be done.
3.	No.



LEPROSY-DISCHARGE OP PATIENTS FROM HOSPITAL

Mr. DIONNE (Beauce):: 1. Are the patients of the two dominion government hospitals operated by the Department of National Health and Welfare for the treatment of leprosy, discharged at any time from hospital?
2.	If so, under what conditions does the Department of National Health and Welfare authorize the said discharge from hospital?


Mr. MARTIN:: 1.	Yes. During the past fifteen years, fifteen patients have been discharged. Nine were returned to their native country. Six were released in Canada under conditions which fully met modern health practice.
2.	Clause 14 of the Leprosy Act reads as follows:
"Every inmate received into any lazaretto for lepers shall be detained therein until the medical superintendent or officer in charge of the lazaretto certifies that it is safe for him to be discharged and to be a.t large.
2. The discharge of an inmate may be subject to any conditions certified by the medical superintendent or officer in charge to be necessary or expedient."



PALESTINE

Mr. CHURCH:: 1.	What stand did Great Britain take on the question of the division of Palestine?
2.	Who represented Britain when this action *was taken?
3.	Wh'at military forces have the united nations got, and representing what countries herein, to enforce such a division?
Mr. ST. LAURENT:
1.	It abstained from voting.
2.	The Right Honourable Sir Alexander Cadogan, G.C.M.G., K.C.B., permanent United Kingdom delegate to the United Nations.
3.	None at present.



PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE-SASKATCHEWAN

Mr. JAENICKE:: According to. the returns, reports, and records of the administration of the Prairie Farm Assistance Act (a) how many acres of wheat were sown during the year 1947 on each of the sections one (1) to thirty-six (36) inclusive, in township thirty-seven (37), range

tw-enty-two (22) west of the third meridian, in the province of (Saskatchewan? (b) How many bushels of wheat were threshed during the year 1947 on each of the said sections?


James Garfield Gardiner: This information is
obtained from the individual farmers for prairie farm assistance purposes on the understanding that it is to be treated as confidential.



CARBERRY, MAN., AIRPORT-GOODS IN STORES

Mr. MATTHEWS (Brandon):: 1.	What goods are in stores at the airport at Carberry, Manitoba?
2.	Have all or any part of these goods been declared surplus?
3.	If not, when approximately will they be so declared?


Mr. MATTHEWS (Brandon):: I have
received the information asked for, and the question may be dropped.


Mr. HOMUTH:: The hon. member placed a question on the order paper. He says he has received the information and now he wants the question dropped, but I believe the house wants the information.


James Horace King: Dropped.



FAMILY .ALLOWANCES

Mr. JAENICKE:: 1.	With what provinces has the Department of National Health and Welfare concluded agreements or made arrangements to facilitate the carrying out by the provinces of the Family Allowances Act?
2.	Which of the provinces, with whom no such arrangements or agreements have so far been concluded, have been approached by the Department of National Health and Welfare with a view to concluding such arrangements or agreements and what was the result of the negotiations in each case?
3.	Have any of the provinces with whom so far no arrangements or agreements have been concluded, made representations that they are ready and willing to enter into such arrangements or agreements, and if so (a) which provinces; (b) why have no such arrangements been made so far?
4.	Has the Department of National Health and Welfare any employees or staff stationed in the provinces with whom arrangements have been made for the carrying out by the provinces of the Family Allowances Act, and if so, how many in each province?
5.	What is the number of the employees or staff of the Department of National Health and Welfare engaged in carrying out the Family Allowances Act in each of the provinces which have not made arrangements for the carrying out by the provinces of the Family Allowances Act?


Mr. MARTIN:: 

FAMILY ALLOWANCES

Mr. MATTHEWS (Brandon):: 1.	How many investigations in respect of family allowances were conducted by public or private agencies since the 1st April, 1947?
2.	What was the cost of investigations conducted in respect of family allowances by public or private agencies since the 1st April, 1947?


Mr. MARTIN:: 1.	3,633-from April 1, 1947 to November 30, 1947 (the latest month for which complete figures are available).
2.	$21,265.



QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS


Mr. LACOMBE:: 1.	Was any oil or gasoline sold and delivered to the iSt. Vincent de Paul penitentiary during 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1947 and 1948?
2.	If so, what are the names, places of business and residences of the suppliers respectively?
3.	What quantity was delivered by each supplier during the above years and what was the price paid therefor?


James Lorimer Ilsley: Return tabled.


PENITENTIARIES-ST. VINCENT DE PAUL-MILK
Mr. LACOMBE:: 1.	During 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1947 and 1948, was any milk supplied to the 'St. Vincent de Paul penitentiary?
2.	If so, what are the names of the suppliers?
3.	What quantity was delivered for each of the above years?
4.	What was the price paid during such years?


James Lorimer Ilsley: Return tabled.



PENITENTIARIES-ST. VINCENT DE PAUL- EMPLOYEES

Mr. LACOMBE:: ,
1.	During 1946, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1947 and 1948, have any employees been appointed to the iSt. Vincent de Paul penitentiary?
2.	If so, what are the names of such employees and what was their respective place of residence at the time of their appointment?


James Lorimer Ilsley: Return tabled.



PAYMENTS TO FARMERS UNDER UNITED KINGDOM CONTRACTS FOR WHEAT, BACON AND BEEF

Mr. FULTON:: 1.	What are the total amounts supplied by Canada to the United Kingdom under (a) the wheat contracts (in bushels); (b) the bacon contracts (in pounds); (c) the beef contracts (in pounds) respectively, from June, 1945, to date?
2.	What are the total payments (a) made by the British government; (b) received by Canadian farmers, for the respective amounts supplied?
3.	What were the respective yearly payments, under the same headings as in question 2. for each year or part year that these contracts have been in operation from June, 1945, to date?
4.	What is the difference, in each such period, between what was received by Canadian farmers for each of the commodities supplied under the above contracts respectively and what the same amount of each commodity would have fetched had it been sold at the class 2 price quoted by the Canadian wheat board for the same period with respect to wheat and at the prevailing market price in the United States of America in the same period, with respect to bacon and beef?



PUBLIC BUILDINGS, WINNIPEG

Mr. DIEFENBAKER:: 1.	How many buildings, properties or offices are held under lease or rented by the dominion government in the city of Winnipeg, Manitoba?
2.	What has been the total expenditure for such rentals in each of the fiscal years 1945, 1946 and 1947?
3.	What are the particulars of each office or building rented in each of said years, from whom and at what monthly or yearly rental in each case?



EXPORT OF SEEDS

Mr. WRIGHT:: 1.	W'hat was the export of clover seeds, grass seeds and seed grains from Canada in the years 1946 and 1947 under the following headings: (a) elite stock seed; (b) registered seed; (c) certified seed; (d) commercial seed?
2.	To what countries were these exports made and the amounts to each?
3.	Have any steps been taken by the dominion government to restrict such exports until Canadian requirements are filled?



IMMIGRATION-NORWAY, DENMARK, SWEDEN, SWITZERLAND

Howard Waldemar Winkler: For the past year or for any convenient recent period, how many prospective immigrants to Canada were (a) examined; (b) accepted as immigrants at the following European points: Oslo, Norway; Copenhagen, Denmark; Stockholm, iSweden; Berne, Switzerland?
Motions for Papers



CANADIAN EMBASSIES

Mr. BLACKMORE:: 1.	How many Canadian embassies have we?
2.	What are the names of these Canadian embassies?
3.	Who are the major officials connected with each of them?
4.	Who are the minor officials connected with each of them?
5.	How many employees have we in subordinate positions in Canadian embassies?
6.	How many employees have we in major positions in Canadian embassies?
7.	What is the salary given to each of the major officials?
8.	What is the salary given to each of the minor officials?



VETERANS LAND ACT-YORK COUNTY, ONT.

Mr. McGREGOR:: 1.	What is the total cost of each home constructed under the Veterans Land Act in iScar-boro township in the county of York?
2.	How many homes were built under the V.L.A. in 'Soarboro township?
3.	What was the cost per unit of project overhead and how was the same made up?
4.	What was the total cost 'to the veteran for each home?
5.	What was the total cost of repairs or alterations to each house to December 31, 1947?
6.	Are administrative costs included in the total cost of construction for each house?
7.	If not, what was the total cost of administration on each house?



VETERANS LAND ACT-EAST YORK TOWNSHIP

Mr. McGREGOR:: 1.	What is the total cost of each home constructed under the Veterans Land Act in East York township?
2.	How many homes were built under the V.L.A. in East York township?
3.	What was the cost per unit of project overhead and how was the same made up?
4.	What was the total cost to the veteran for each house?
5.	What was the total cost of repairs or alterations to each house to December 31, 1947?
6.	Are the administrative costs included in the total cost of construction for each house?
7.	If not, what was the total cost of administration on each house?



VETERAN S LAND ACT-HOUSES CONSTRUCTED- COST OP ADMINISTRATION

Mr. McGREGOR:: 1.	How many houses have been constructed under the Veterans Land Act to December 31, 1947?
2.	What was the total cost of these houses?
3.	Were they all of the same dimensions?
4.	If so, what was the average over-all cost per house?
5.	If not, what Avas the average over-all cost per house in each different dimension? .

6.	What was the total cost of the administration of the Veterans Land Act to December 31, 1947?
7.	Was the cost of administration included in the average overfall cost of the houses?



MOTIONS FOR PAPERS


Mr. ZAPLITNY:: For a copy of all correspondence, telegram? and other documents exchanged between the Department of Justice and any person or persons since January 1, 1947, regarding the appointment of a judge for the judicial district of Dauphin, Manitoba.


James Lorimer Ilsley: I have no objection to this motion passing, Mr. Speaker, provided it is understood that the usual practice is observed of regarding as personal and privileged any communications to the Minister of Justice making representations with regard to particular persons and their qualifications. That has always been the case, and I will have to insist that it be the case now. There is one communication not of that character on the file, which I will produce.


James Horace King: Carried.



INCOME TAX-FARMERS-DIRECTIVES TO OFFICIALS

Mr. FAIR:: For a copy of all directives sent to administrative officials in income tax offices since January 1, 1947, to date, with respect to farm income tax payments.



STENEN, SASK., POSTMASTERSHIP

Mr. NICHOLSON:: For a copy of all correspondence, telegrams and other documents in possession of the post office department since January 1, 1047, in connection with the appointment of postmaster at 'Stenen, 'Saskatchewan.



POSTAL SERVICE-&quot;HUDSON BAY POST&quot;-POSTAGE AND MAILING CHARGES

Alexander Malcolm Nicholson: For a copy of all letters, telegrams and other documents in possession of the post office department since January 1, 1947, in connection with the postage payable by the Hudson Bay Post, Hudson Bay, Saskatchewan, and a return showing the average amount paid per week for mailing the Hudson Bay Post during 1947.



NATIONAL FILM BOARD-ADVERTISING

Mr. FRASER:: For a copy of catalogues, leaflets, advertisements and all other publications issued during the year 1947 by the national film board, or any of its agencies in Canada, or foreign countries.

Inquiries oj the Ministry



WHEAT BOARD ACT


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. P. E. WRIGHT (Melfort):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the Minister of Trade and Commerce with respect to a telegram received recently from the Saskatchewan government. Has the minister, through the Department of Justice, forwarded any information to the Saskatchewan government with respect to the provincial complementary legislation necessary to implement the proposed amendments to the wheat board act?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Mr. Speaker, I assume the question is addressed to me. I was not listening to it. I did receive a telegram yesterday from the Premier of Saskatchewan asking for advice from this government as to the type of complementary legislation that would be required. Study is being given to the appropriate answer to that telegram.


Thomas John Bentley: Tell that to the member for Rosthern (Mr. Tucker) too.



LOANS TO OTHER COUNTRIES


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. E. D. PULTON (Kamloops):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Minister of Finance? In view of the statement made by the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) on Friday last with respect to the non-repayment of credits and loans made by the government of Canada to foreign countries, will the Minister of Finance tell the house what quantity or proportion of these credits and loans the government expects not to have repaid?


Hon. DOUGLAS ABBOTT (Minister of Finance):: I shall have to look at Hansard and see my hon. friend's question, notice of which he no doubt did not have time to give me.


Edmund Davie Fulton: The question is based on a statement made by the Minister of Agriculture on Friday.



DURHAM COUNTY-QUESTION AS TO MARKETING

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. G. A. CRUICKSHANK (Fraser Valley):: Mr. Speaker, in view of the courtesy that has been shown the members of this 5849-117
house in having very fine apples presented to us from Durham county, will the Minister of Agriculture see that a market is provided for them?



POLISH ART TREASURES


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs in connection with the Polish art treasures to which the afternoon papers have made certain reference, and to ask him whether or not the Royal Canadian Mounted Police were directed by him to make or execute a search for these treasures.
Right Hon. L. S. ST. LAURENT (Secretary of State for External Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I had prepared a statement on the matter of the Polish art treasures, the instructions which had been given the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and what they had done under those instructions; but I was shown, just before I came into the house, a dispatch from the city of Quebec so extraordinary in terms and so inaccurate in its assertions that I would prefer to see whether the declaration referred to has been made, and then deal with that at the same time. I hope to do so tomorrow.


John George Diefenbaker: I would point out that the reason for the question is that about a month ago the Montreal Herald stated that the minister had given instructions, and when the mounted police were interviewed they refused to deny or to confirm whether the instructions came from him.
Mr. ST. LAURENT: I have no objection to making all the information available to the house, and I had intended to do so, but in view of the dispatch that was handed to me just before I came into the house I think the statement I shall make tomorrow will have to be a little more complete than I had intended it to be.

rRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE-OVERPAYMENTS UNDER WHEAT ACREAGE REDUCTION SCHEME
On the orders of the day:


Frederick Samuel Zaplitny: Mr. Speaker, on Friday last I addressed a question to the Minister of Agriculture in connection with certain regulations of the prairie farm assistance board. He said then that he would look into the matter and reply. I wonder if he has the reply to that question today.
The Address-Mr. Grant


James Garfield Gardiner: The answer to the question was laid1 on my desk today, but I referred it back to Justice on one point. As soon as I get the full information it will be brought down.



GOVERNOR GENERAL'S SPEECH


[Stage Direction]
The house resumed from Tuesday, March 2, consideration of the motion of Mr. J. A. Dion for an address to His Excellency the Governor General in reply to his speech at the opening of the session, and the amendment thereto of Mr. Bracken, and the amendment to the amendment of Mr. Coldiwell.
Mr. T. V. GRANT (Kings):: Mr. Speaker, last night when the debate adjourned I was trying to repair some of the damage which had been done by the Tory member for Queens in an address which he had made a day or so previously regarding conditions in the province of Prince Edward Island.


James Horace King: Order. There is so much noise in the chamber that it is difficult to hear what the hon. member is saying. May I ask the hon. member who has the floor to speak louder, please.


Thomas Vincent Grant: I had shown that 9,373 cars of potatoes were shipped across the straits last crop season, a larger number than had been shipped in any previous year. Incidentally, the potato crop of Prince Edward Island last year amounted' to about 10,000,000 bushels.
The Tory member for Queens had attempted to belittle the federal government, but in doing so he belittled his own province. I was reminded of the oration of John Bright in the British House of Commons when he was depicting the condition of the Irish people a few generations ago at the hands of the British government. As far as the. federal government's dealings with Prince Edward Island are concerned, I shall speak of my own constituency.
Since I came into the house in 1935 the federal government has constructed seven boat harbours in my constituency for the benefit of the fishermen, and I do not think my hon. friend can point to one boat harbour on the whole island which his party has ever constructed. I have just received notice that a new boat harbour will be constructed at Launching Place, the contract having been awarded to H. J. Phillips and Son, the lowest tenderer, at 863,853.30, so that both the county

and the province as a whole will benefit from this new harbour. There is another boat harbour in my constituency being constructed at Bayfield at the present time. It is being done by day labour, the men are now getting out the lumber and the money has already been voted.
I think the Liberal party rather than the Conservative party should claim the title "progressive", but the Liberal party does not believe in changing its name. It is only bank robbers and bandits and people with too many letters in their names who want to change them. On the contrary, the Conservative party on several occasions, have made their name longer. For example, in 1920 they changed their name to the National Liberal and Progressive Conservative party of Canada. The Liberal party brought in old age pensions, family allowances and many other social benefits, and that is why I say they should claim the title "progressive".
Speaking of socialism, I listened yesterday for a short time to the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Knowles). I am not finding fault with his speech because I admire him. However, he seems to be opposed to free enterprise. I cannot understand why the C.C.F. party should be opposed to free enterprise because I do not think there would be one of them here today if when he was born his veins had not been full of free enterprise. There was one thing the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre admitted! unwillingly, that is, that the Liberal party would be in power until 1971.
The Tory member for Queens (Mr. McLure) stated that he did not have time to deal with the question of mail couriers and fishermen. If there is any party in this house who should keep away from the mail courier question, it is the Tory party. We all remember the last session before the 1930 election. They brought in an amendment to the Post Office Act to place the mail couriers in the civil service,, but like all opposition amendments it was voted down. In the early part of the campaign every mail courier in Canada had in his possession a letter signed by the leader of the Conservative party giving the details of that resolution and saying that if they came to power they would put them all in the civil service. I tell you, sir, it was dangerous to meet a mail courier on the road during that campaign.
But what happened1? Shortly after the Tories came into power the mail couriers began to ask to be placed in the civil service, but instead of placing them in the civil

The Address-Mr. Grant
service they threw out all their contracts to tender to keep them quiet. I know that many of these poor men could not get any money. I know one man who was getting 31,100 and who heard that his neighbour was going to tender for $500, so he tendered for $480 and got the contract. But today under a Liberal government that same man is getting $1,400 under the new regulations brought in last year by the Post Office Department.
My hon. friend-


An hon. MEMBER:: The Tory member for Queens.


Thomas Vincent Grant: Yes, the Tory member for Queens. He wants to have a share of the glory of those new regulations. When he sees that we are trying to do something he decides to get in on it and take some credit. He claims credit for the 9,393 reefer cars that were brought to the island last year.
The affairs of our fishermen are something else that they should keep away from. During their term in office between 1930 and 1935 the fishermen of Canada were starving and they did not do one thing for them. They let them starve. Their boats were rotting at the wharves when we got into power in 1935. When we came into power we instituted the fishermen's loan board and we helped the fishermen to build new boats, and when the war came along they were just beginning to be prosperous again. My hon. friend would try to persuade the fishermen that his party would do a lot for them. We are trying to get the Department of Fisheries to buy canned fish in the maritimes and send it overseas for relief purposes. If that is done, then my hon. friend will want to take the credit.
I see the Tory member for Royal (Mr. Brooks) is in his seat. If there is one man in this house who does not like the word "Tory" it is my hon. friend. You cannot mention the word "Tory" without his hair standing on end. I am reminded of the farmer who was working in his fields when a young man came along and put his hand on his shoulder and asked him what he was doing. The farmer said, "I am doing my work." The man said, "I am a farm inspector; stop your work and show me around." He showed the farmer a card which read, "So and so, farm inspector." The farmer looked at the card and said, "I guess that is enough," and he went with him. They looked at all' the fields and finally came to a pasture field where there were a lot of cattle. The inspector man jumped over the fence to go to look at the cattle standing in the shade of a canopy which the farmer had erected. When he got near the cattle a 5849-1174
male animal came toward him. It was advancing pretty fast and the inspector thought he should retreat.


An hon. MEMBER:: More bull.


Thomas Vincent Grant: He barely got over the fence before the bull landed. The inspector turned to the farmer and said, "Why do you keep an animal like that around your place?" and the farmer replied, "Why didn't you show him your card?" There is a moral to that story which I think the hon. member for Royal should take to heart. The moral is that you cannot reason with a bull.


Mr. BROOKS:: There is no reason in your bull.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: The moral of that is that a little bull goes a long way.


Thomas Vincent Grant: The advice given me by one of my old teachers is that when you heard nothing, you should say nothing. However, it is hard to resist when the hon. member across the way, who I understand is an authority on nails, drives one in.
In some countries there is a bird known as the vulture. It is a stout bird and it watches around for some other bird of its own size to build a nest and lay its eggs and then it goes in and eats the other bird's eggs and lays its own eggs and then loafs around until the other bird hatches out the young ones and rears them. I was just thinking that perhaps those are the tactics that have been adopted by the Tory member for Queens. He waits around until he finds that something is going to be done and then he slips into his seat and asks the minister a question about it for the benefit of his constituents.
I notice my time is getting short, and I want to say something to the government. This government is not perfect any more than any other human organization. I want to say a word about the sale of canned fish. There is going to be difficulty in selling all this fish in this country. The canneries are about to start up operations and an appeal is being made to the Department of Fisheries to buy our surplus canned fish to be sent overseas for relief purposes. I hope the government will take note of that, as it is of vital importance to our canners and fishermen.
For some years we have had a car ferry by means of which a very good trade has been worked up between eastern Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia. But it is only a summer boat and in the fall she ceases to operate. We have however two winter ports, Georgetown and Pictou, in the near vicinity, and our people want the government to put
The Address-Mr. McCullough

on this route in winter, one of the winter boats which is idle at Borden. A largely signed petition has been presented to the Minister of Transport (Mr. Chevrier) asking for this service, and the board of trade has also asked for it, and I trust that the minister will accede to that request.
There are other matters with which the government should deal. One is the sales tax, that Tory sales tax. It should be abolished, and I hope it will be abolished this year. Everyone who goes out to spend a dollar finds himself short by at least eight cents because of that tax. Then there is a luxury tax of twenty-five per cent on refrigerators and other household furnishings. These taxes should be taken off to give the people a chance to live. Prices are so high at the present time that the government has started an investigation into the cause and a committee is now looking into that matter. Why not at the same time reduce or abolish some of these taxes that perhaps we can get along without?
As I have said, this government, being a human organization, is not perfect.
The ancient philosophers' conception of the perfect man was in the possession of those powers and qualities which are required for the honourable discharge of his duties in life, each in the golden mean, equally removed from excesses and all in due proportion. If any hon. gentleman in this house can be placed in that category I think it is our Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie Eng), who may not be with us at the next session of parliament. He has devoted almost fifty years of his life to the welfare of humanity. He has been a wise peacetime leader, and second to none as a wartime leader. In this regard his name is a household word in every civilized country in the world. He has not sought titles, but he has won for himself the only title that has any lasting value, the title of "Good and faithful servant".


Mr. McLURE:: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, notwithstanding that the last speaker, according to his own words-


James Horace King: Order. I would ask the hon. member to state his point of order. ,


Winfield Chester Scott McLure: On a question of privilege, Mr. Speaker, notwithstanding that the last speaker, according to 'his own words, was painfully disturbed by my remarks, I do feel that-


James Horace King: Order. I would ask the hon. member to state his question of privilege.


Winfield Chester Scott McLure: This is my question of privilege. I do feel, however, that my remarks-


James Horace King: Order.


Mr. E. G. McCULLOUGH (Assiniboia):: Mr. Speaker, the debate on the address in reply to the speech from the throne permits members to bring before the House of Commons any grievances which they may have. I have very many grievances; and may I say that we have come out of the war in a privileged position and that if we take pains and do the necessary planning we can as it were become a torch to the free peoples of the world. It is because of that I rise today not as a Canadian representing only my own constituency but hoping rather to speak what is in the minds and what are the desires of the great majority of the Canadian people.
It is true that the present Liberal government has many problems, problems which are complex not only as they relate to Canada but also as they relate to the international picture. Since 1939 we have seen the light of freedom go out in many countries throughout the world, and that has been very distressing to us, but here in Canada we have been fortunate in escaping the tragedies which have overtaken many countries in Europe and Asia. Therefore I want to bring to the attention of the government some of the things I feel should be done to allow the people of Canada to share in a post-war prosperity which, as I say, will be a light to a darkened world.
I want to refer to the veteran, the old age pensioner, the worker and the farmer.
In the first place I feel that the veteran has not been allowed to have that share in the post-war reconstruction of this country to which he is entitled and which Canada could easily afford. We have seen in Canada sledgehammer blows, one after another, struck at our Canadian economy. Principally because of the decontrol measures of this government the veteran has been put in an almost hopeless position, where he is not able to buy a house or house furnishings, or rehabilitate himself on a farm and buy the necessary farm machinery. We have seen costs continually going up so that his gratuity and re-establishment credit have not been sufficient to enable him to rehabilitate himself.
Old age pensioners too have been shamefully treated) by this government. While the government saw fit to introduce a bill increasing the pension by $5 a month, already that increase has been eaten up by higher costs of living.

The Address-Mr. McCullough
It is the same with our workers. During the war the workers across this country were willing to accept the freezing of wages, just as the farmer was willing to accept the freezing of prices in order to win the war, but both the farmer and the worker expected fair treatment in the post-war period, and they have not got it.
I was at a demonstration at an airport the other day where it was indicated that one of the large aeroplanes called the North Star would cost approximately half a million dollars to build in Canada. So here we see the same thing happening now that happened during the war-all kinds of money to build these things, but when it comes to rehabilitating hundreds of people who went and fought for freedom, not very much is done.
I had a return brought down the other day in answer to these questions:
1.	How many applications have been made each year, by provinces, for the Veterans Business and Professional Loans Act?
2.	How many of these applications have been granted, by provinces, to date?
I find in my own province of Saskatchewan that the number accepted is 269, and the amount of the loans given to these veterans is $461,218, a mere pittance; less than half a million dollars to rehabilitate all the veterans who have applied under this Veterans Business and Professional Loans Act to rehabilitate themselves. The act is not working, sir. I have had veterans come to me asking whether they could get a loan to rehabilitate themselves. The return I received indicates the sort of niggardly assistance that is being given under the provisions of this act.
The workers of this country by and large accepted the freezing of wages-[DOT]


Mr. MITCHELL:: May I interrupt the hon. member? I am sure he does not want to convey the wrong impression. Wages were never frozen in this country.


Edward George McCullough: You
may have it your own way.; they were controlled.


Humphrey Mitchell: I should know. I was chairman of the national labour board before I came in to the government; I helped frame the policy.


Edward George McCullough: It is true; the workers never went on strike. They agreed to win the war, to take the rulings of the government and not go on strike.


Humphrey Mitchell: That is all right back home, but you can't get away with it here.
All the labour organizations as well as the employers were represented on the national labour board. Let us be fair about it.


Edward George McCullough: That is all right. I would just ask the minister to make his own speech. I am speaking now, and he may refute anything I say later if he wishes.
I say that all across this country the workers and farmers were ready to join together in co-operation to win the war. In many instances they were working for wages during the war which were far below what we could say were decent wages. All that they are asking today is that either prices and profits be controlled or that their wages go up, so that they can attain a decent standard of living.
Last fall we had the packers strike. I say to the minister that if he had done as suggested by this party since I became a member of it in 1945, namely, establish a national labour code under which we could have the right of collective bargaining, there would not be the strikes across this country which we have seen since the termination of the war.


Humphrey Mitchell: My hon. friend knows that is not true.


Edward George McCullough: That is all right. You passed the buck; you passed the responsibility of the federal government back to the provinces, and that was the cause of the packing house strike.


James Horace King: Order.


Edward George McCullough: We had there an instance of what took place because of inability to come to an agreement. The federal government, not taking proper responsibility in the matter, tried to throw it back on the provinces, and therefore we had a glut on the livestock market.
This afternoon I intend to speak particularly of the farming or agricultural conditions in this country because I feel that the great mass of workers and farmers are interdependent. Since agriculture is the backbone of the country the prosperity of the worker is certainly dependent on the farmer. Therefore it is certain that we must have prosperity in agriculture in order for the worker to have a decent standard of living. As a fanner I say the workers and the people of this country are our best customers. We want them to receive decent wages so that they can buy the beef, butter, pork, cheese and other farm commodities which we produce.
The Address-Mr. McCullough

I want to give a brief resume of what has taken place in the field of agriculture. In western Canada we came through deplorable years during the depression when we had my hon. friends to the right in power, and later the Liberal party which is now in power. During those tragic years the farmers of western Canada were taking absolutely ridiculous prices to feed not only the people of Canada but also of the world. I shall not give all the figures, but I do want to give some. These figures are actually what the farmer got for his various commodities. I think, Mr. Speaker, it would be well to put these on the record as a whole, if I can get the unanimous consent of the house, because all the figures that have been given, so far as I am aware, have been for wheat and coarse grains f.o.b. Winnipeg, Port Arthur and Vancouver. The figures I am about to quote give the net returns to the farmer. I wish to refer to some of them.
Shortly after the Tory party came into power the farmer was getting 47 cents a bushel for No. 1 northern wheat. In 1932 he got 38 cents; in 1933-34, 47 cents, and so on. In 1930 the farmer got 15 cents a bushel for oats; 18 cents in 1931, 13 cents in 1932 and 19 cents in 1933. For barley he received 12 cents in 1930, 21 cents in 1931 and 19 cents in 1932. The other day the hon. member for Calgary West (Mr. Smith) asked me what the farmers were getting for rye at the present time, perhaps indicating that the open market and the grain exchange were giving a market for the farmers' rye. I wish to tell the house here and now that I myself have marketed rye for 12 and 15 cents a bushel on the open market. I think I speak for the majority of western farmers when I say that we never want to see a return of prices which are contained in the table which I shall put on Hansard. Here are the prices that obtained on the open market: in 1930, 17 cents; 1931, 23 cents; 1932, 24 cents. That is the sort of thing we have had from the Winnipeg grain exchange. Is it any wonder that not one of us from western Canada, who has worked to produce these things, wants to see the Winnipeg grain exchange remain open? We want to see the Winnipeg grain exchange closed. Today we are getting S5 for our flaxseed. I understand we are going to get another 50 cents. In the United States they are paying $7 a bushel for flax. Here are the prices we received for it in the thirties: in 1930, 89 cents; in 1931, 77 cents, and so on. If I am permitted I should like to put these figures on Hansard, Mr. Speaker, and I shall not read any more of them.


Humphrey Mitchell: What is the source?


Edward George McCullough: Have I the consent of the house?


James Horace King: Has the hon. member unanimous consent to put the table on Hansard?


Humphrey Mitchell: 1 should like to know the source of the figures.


Edward George McCullough: They are taken from the agricultural branch, Dominion Bureau of Statistics, Ottawa, May 4, 1946.


James Horace King: Has the hon. member the unanimous consent of the house?


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Agreed.


Edward George McCullough: The
table follows:
Average Farm Price for Wheat, Oats, Barley, Rye and Flax Saskatchewan, 1939-1940
Year	Wheat	Oats	Barley	Rye	Flax- seed1930-31	0-47	0-15	0-12	0-17	0-891931-32'	0-38	0-18	0-21	0-23	0-771932-33	0-35	0-13	0-19	0-24	0-691933-34	0-47	0-19	0-24	0-33	1-191934-35	0-61	0-27	0-47	0-46	1-131935-36	0-60	9-17	0-24	0-25	1-181936-37	0-92	0-35	0-67	0-63	1-441937-38	1-05	0-38	0-46	0-67	1-421938-39	0-58	0-16	0-22	0-25	1-111939-40	0-54	0-23	0-39	0-40	1-491940-41	0-53	9-21	0-27	0-39	1-05
Agricultural Branch,
Dominion Bureau of Statistics, Ottawa, May 4, 1946
We of this group feel that coarse grains should be taken off the open market and placed under the control of the wheat board or some other board so that we shall not have speculation in coarse grains in the future. Some hon. members of the party to my right, I believe, feel that the farmers should have the right to market their grain either on the open market or through the wheat board. With regard to wheat I hold in my hand a chart prepared by the Co-operator of January 1947, which indicates that in the crop year 1939-1940 the farmer was getting only 50J cents for his wheat on the average for that year.


Mr. SMITH (Calgary West):: Will the hon. member permit a question?


Edward George McCullough: Yes.


Arthur Leroy Smith: With reference to the figures he has just given, is it not true that even at these terribly low prices the Canadian farmer received nearer the world market price for his grain than he is receiving today? Is it also not true that at that time we had a world cataclysm economically and everything else sold at prices comparable to wheat? Is not that also true?

The Address-Mr. McCullough


Edward George McCullough: No.


Thomas John Bentley: That is absolutely not true.


Edward George McCullough: I have some more figures that I intend1 to put on the record today if I have time, indicating the prices the farmers were paying for their needs in those same years. In spite of the fact that we had a price spreads commission which reported to the government that these prices were far too high, nothing was done about it. I think it was the same sort of prices committee as that which we have today, or at least the result will be practically similar.


Thomas John Bentley: It was a Tory committee, with one of their own ministers as chairman.


Edward George McCullough: This is right. I have here a photographic reproduction of a grain card dated December 16, 1932, which gives the list prices applied to all grains purchased in elevators regardless of quantity at that date. We find that the price of No. 1 northern, which is the average grade of wheat for western Canada, at the 25-cent freight rate, was 164 cents; for oats on that same day, at the 19i-cent freight rate, it was 4) cents; for barley on that date, it was 11 cents. Coming down to flax, we find that for 3 C.W. at the 25)-cent freight rate the price was 42 cents. So that we in western Canada are determined that after the war we shall have justice and we want no speculation in the food of this country. As Sir John Boyd Orr said to the F.A.O. organization, today the world is seeking for food. If we are to have all-out production in western Canada we must have stability for agriculture. The farmer took lower prices than he could have got on the world market during the war, but we expect justice now. When the British wheat agreement was consummated the leader of this party said, as reported in Hansard of August 15, 1946, at page 4825:
I believe the government would be well advised to consider this suggestion that, in the event of the costs of production rising for the next few years, as they will do largely because of the government's failure to maintain the ceilings, any difference there may be between what the farmer receives for his wheat and the increased cost of production should be made up out of the consolidated revenue fund of Canada.
That was our position then; that is our position today. I cannot see how the government or any member on the other side of the house can feel that the farmer is being fairly dealt with when this decontrol is allowed to go on and the farmer's prices are going up with the result that today we have agriculture precipitated into utter chaos. We have assistance given to big businesses in this country to the extent that we have double depreciation; with regard to the excess profits tax, today we are asking the people of this country to pay back the twenty per cent which is refundable. As indicated in the 1947 Canada Year Book, under the chapter on assistance to private investments:
Special depreciation allowances for tax purposes were granted between November, 1944, and March 31, 1947, for projects completed prior to March 31, 1949. Over this period of approximately two and one-half years, approvals for special depreciation had reached a total in excess of $1.300,000,000. Low- interest rates and special credit facilities for industrial expansion, not provided by the commercial banks, were made available through the establishment of the government-sponsored industrial development bank, a subsidiary of the Bank of Canada, in 1944.
I think if we can do these things for big business, it is time we did something similar for agriculture in this country. Today we find that agriculture cannot get cheap credit. On account of the higher cost of farm machinery farmers are finding that replacement is coming so high that they are again being loaded with a terrific debt in western Canada. I have here some figures which indicate what is taking place. These were provided to me through Canadian Co-operative Implements Limited of Regina. As an example, we find that the price of an AR 2-3 plow John Deere tractor after the 12) per cent increase in 1946, which I feel was completely unjustified, again *when the ceiling came off went up from $1,480 to $1,750, or an increase of S270. I have here a survey which was made by the dominion government, or at least was put out by the dominion Department of Agriculture, which indicated the number of tractors which would be needed in various provinces. In my own province for the years 1947 and 1948, the pent-up demand for combines I find to be 18,508. The difference in price of a Massey-Harris self-propelled combine as between 1947 and 1948 amounts to $415.50. This one item in western Canada, if that pent-up demand for combines is supplied, would amount to approximately $7,708,574. So we should look into conditions of living on the farms in western Canada.
I have here figures taken from the United Farmers of Canada information bulletin on Saskatchewan agriculture. I find that in 1945 the net farm income from the sale of farm products per average farm amounted to $2,155, the average of his net from 1940 to 1945 being $1,338. That is for one and a half adult males on a farm. Breaking that down we find that for every male adult on the farm the net income was $892. Surely if these figures are anywhere nearly correct, and even allowing
The Address-Mr. McCullough

for disparities and differences with regard to the authenticity of the figures, we can still see that the farmers in western Canada are in a poor condition having regard to income. In view of the record of production of western Canada, I think we are not getting a square deal. I find here, in compiling the estimates, that the farmers of Canada during that same period from 1940 to 1946 inclusive, shipped for export 64,000,000 head of livestock. That number, marching in single file, would reach twice around the world1. So it was a magnificent effort on the part of our people. During the same period the farmers produced for export 4,300,000.000 pounds of meat products. This quantity would1 equal a train one half mile long arriving at seaboard every week day for seven years. In regard to wheat exports during that same period of 1940 to 1946 inclusive, we shipped for export 1,477,175,280 bushels.


Arthur Leroy Smith: Is that for Saskatchewan alone?


Edward George McCullough: No, this is the total export of wheat from Canada, taking a preliminary report for 1946. These figures are taken from the reports of the Dominion Bureau of Statistics.
In regard to general conditions on our farms in western Canada, many are still without modern conveniences. According to the figures given in the Agriculture Institute Review, only 16-1 per cent of Canadian farms are served with electricity. The percentage varies from a high of 35 per cent in the province of Ontario to a low of -21 per cent in Saskatchewan, while Ontario consumes 79-75 per cent of the power used on Canadian farms.


Mr. MacNICOL:: What was the figure for
Saskatchewan?


Edward George McCullough: According to this statement it was -21 per cent, but I must say we have improved somewhat since then.
The other day, in trying to suggest that the present government has been protecting farm prices in this country, the Minister of Agriculture made a comparison with the price of wheat in the United States, and mentioned the deterioration in the market there. That may be true; but it is also true that during the war the farmers in the United States were receiving higher prices not only for livestock products but for all their grain products. The minister stated that agriculture would be protected from rising costs due to decontrol; yet we find that actually in most cases the farmer is not receiving prices any higher now than were received in the fall, before decontrol took

place. I have here receipts showing what I was paid for some of my own cattle the other day, cattle which have been fed on hard grain feed for four months. Owing to the fact that the packers are showing little interest in shipments to Winnipeg, prices still are not much higher than they were last August. I remember that some of my neighbours received 15 cents a pound for steers off the grass at that time. Here I have a receipt for one bull at 11 cents a pound, a cow at 9| cents and a steer at 141 cents. I might add for the benefit of the minister that according to the Searle Grain Livestock News of February 3, 1948, the Winnipeg price for medium steers up to 1,050 pounds was $12.50, whereas at St. Paul the price was $23.50, or almost double. I could quote many figures showing that in the United States the prices paid for livestock products are almost twice the prices paid in Canada.


James Garfield Gardiner: I might just say to my hon. friend that cattle were sold from my farm prior to Christmas. Cows brought 13-4 and 13 cents in Winnipeg; and that type is higher now. It depends on the kind of cow you sell.


Edward George McCullough: Someone says that is some of the bull from the minister's farm. Whether or not that is true I think the minister will agree, if he has been following livestock quotations at Winnipeg, that prices now do not warrant a person feeding livestock. In other words unless a feeder gets two cents a pound after grain-feeding livestock, together with the increase in weight, he cannot make any money on it; and today he is not getting that.


James Garfield Gardiner: I will not agree with that, because we got $195 each for our steers before the price went up.
Mr. McCU'LLOUGH (Assiniboia): Off the grass.


James Garfield Gardiner: Not off the grass; they were grain fed.


Edward George McCullough: As I have indicated, profits in big business have been allowed to run wild, while at the same time the farmer is still getting the small end of the stick. The other evening I was much interested when the hon. member for Resti-gouche-Madawaska (Mr. Michaud) rose in his place and showed great concern about the fertilizer situation in his province. On several occasions in this house I have protested the action of the government in selling the three fertilizer plants built in this country during the war. Not once did any other

The Address-Mr. Fulton
hon. member, either on the government side or in the official opposition, seem concerned about the price of fertilizer. On every occasion I indicated that I felt sure a monopoly was being built up in Canada by the sale of these plants. I expressed the concern of the Canadian federation of agriculture as shown in letters to the Minister of Agriculture and the then minister of munitions and supply with respect to the sale of these plants. I should like here to quote a few words from the speech of the hon. member for Resti-gouche-Madawaska, at page 703 of Hansard for January 29, 1948, referring to ammonium nitrate:
The biggest price jump wias in connection with this latter ingredient, where the increase was a Little more than fifty per cent. On this point I wish to read from the tetter of Mr. Walsh who, in referring to ammonium nitrate, said:
"This represents the most violent price advance and in the farmer's eye the least justified. The three Canadian plants were built by Britain to supply nitrate during the war if her own plants were bombed."
Then he goes on to say:
"Farmers do not believe that the $91 price is justified." That is the present price; it jumped from $69 to $91.
All I can say to the hon. member and those who up to now have not been concerned about this matter is that this indicates the trend of government policy in this country. They sold down the river the people's own plants which were built with the taxpayers' money during the thirties, in order to allow them to get into the hands of monopoly interests in this country. So far as I am concerned there is only one thing for the government to do. My information is that already, in two years of operation, the Welland plant has made enough to pay back the cost of the plant together with 825,000 which was spent on reconstruction. If the government wants to protect the people of this country they should take back that plant immediately and reimburse the company as they may see fit. I am concerned about the situation with respect to fertilizer in this country. Unless we can keep the price at a level which will permit the farmers to use it we are going to continue to deplete our soil. The hon. member for Restigouche-Madawaska referred to potash. In my own province of Saskatchewan we have immense beds of potash, another essential ingredient going into the fertilizer mix. If the federal government would make an appropriation similar to some of the appropriations made for the necessities of *war we could develop those beds and not only conserve United States dollars but also conserve our own soil.
I want to conclude by saying this. Recently the new farm income tax forms have been sent out. I have some of them here; I tried to get from the minister's office every type that has gone out to Canadian, farmers. Looking through them all I find that only the farmer, so far as I am aware, has to fill out an income tax return which in my opinion is not only discriminatory but also insulting. I know a good many farmers; I am one myself, and I think the average farmer is a fair person. He does not like to pay taxes any more than any other person, perhaps, but on the whole he will do what is fair. But when we ask the farmers as a class to fill out this farmer's net worth statement, I think it is insulting. It says, under current assets, "Cash on person or on farm". I do not think it is fair or even reasonable to expect farmers to fill out any such income tax form. If the farmer fills out am income tax form such as that of last year, showing gross income and gross assets, and then his expenditures and net income, he is giving the government all the information they should have, and if he does not fill that out he can be prosecuted under the present act. This is a miserable sort of thing.
If we want to find out where the money is in this country, I think there is one policy we can follow. The government can call in the money of all denominations over five dollars. It can say that three months hence every person having money in denominations over five dollars shall come and exchange it in our banks for new currency, and then we shall find out where the money is. That, I say in conclusion, is what the action of the government should be if they do not feel that the farmer is being just.


Edmund Davie Fulton: It is now nearly three months since the address in reply to the speech from the throne was first moved in this house, and the aspect which I wish to discuss this afternoon for a few minutes is not the address itself but the amendment to it that we are debating, because that amendment is, in effect, a vote of want of confidence in the government. It is, therefore, important to go over the speech from the throne, which we are now considering, and find out why it is that we of the official opposition consider that the program there set forth, coupled with the government's past record, is not such as to command the confidence of the house.
When one analyses the speech from the throne he finds that it is aim jst a completely negative quantity in so far as suggesting constructive steps for the future development of Canada is concerned. I read it over care-
The Address-Mr. Fulton

fully only yesterday, and again today, before speaking, and I was able to find in it only two paragraphs which contain the outline of a program of a positive nature.
I should like to go over it paragraph by paragraph, to have a look at it, in order to see how much we can find in it that will be helpful to the future of Canada, where there is an indication of any positive program to build up the country, any indication that we have faith in the future of Canada as a great country, as having a future which we can bring about, not by accident, not merely by letting events take care of themselves, but by a positive series of steps taken in our lifetime, the results of which we shall be able to see.
Looking over the speech from the throne with that in mind, what do we find? In the first paragraph it refers to conditions throughout the world. They "continue to be difficult and disturbing". That is informative but not very constructive. We are told that Canada was recently represented at a meeting in Australia to discuss peace with Japan. There is another paragraph with regard to the united nations, and the fourth paragraph tells us of the unsettled conditions that still prevail in Europe and Asia; again a fact which, while informative, is not very constructive.
The next paragraph contains the first suggestion of a constructive nature. That paragraph refers to the Geneva trade agreements and is. I think, one example of a positive forward-looking step. Whether or not one agrees with it entirely, it certainly can be said to be an effort looking toward the expansion of our trade, and therefore something that will contribute in a positive sense to the building up of Canada.
Then we have a reference to the exchange conservation measure, and next to the shortage of United States dollars. The next paragraph tells us that the government has progressively removed controls made necessary by the war and has done so in a "gradual and orderly manner", which not only is not very constructive, but is even highly controversial.
Then we have a reference to the United Kingdom food agreements. The only other reference to a constructive proposal in the speech from the throne is the next paragraph, which says that we shall be asked to consider plans for a low-rental housing project for veterans.
Then we have a reference to the so-called national labour code, which, while very important, is a matter which will only adjust an existing situation. It will not contribute to positive material development in the future of a constructive nature.

Then we have a reference to demobilization, which was concluded in September, and some references to agriculture and fisheries legislation, dealing partly with efforts to bring about more orderly marketing and so on, but no reference to the positive building up of those industries.
So we have only two references to any constructive program. There is nothing which indicates that the government has confidence that by a program which it initiates it can contribute to the building up of this country, and that it intends to do so. It is largely for that reason; it is for what we do not find in the speech from the throne, that we feel that the program of the government and the government itself do not command the confidence of the house or the country.
There are specific reasons which can be put forward in support of a motion of want of confidence. One of the first is the sorry condition of the veterans. There is certainly no one in the country who has less cause to have confidence in the government than the veterans of both great wars. The setting up of the veterans affairs committee will give us an opportunity for a general discussion of veterans affairs, and the bill before the house providing for limited increase in pensions will afford an opportunity to discuss that particular matter. Therefore at this moment I am not going to go into any detail with respect to that subject, but before I leave it I want to say that the latest increases, in fact the total increases in pensions announced are to most of us, if not to all of us, a matter of very grave disappointment; and I think that for the veterans themselves they constitute a very serious, a very real cause of frustration.
I am not surprised that the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King), in announcing the last series of increases in pensions, carefully refrained from giving the house the figures at the time he was reading his statement. It will be remembered that the first time, before Christmas, he gave the figures as well as the statement; but after Christmas there was simply a statement read and the figures were tabled, appearing in Hansard the next day, so that there was no immediate opportunity to debate or comment on those figures. It is not surprising, I say, that he did not give out the figures and so give us an opportunity to question him and to point out that there was nothing but a little bait dangled before the veterans, affording the government an opportunity to say, "We are giving you some increases"; for when it is analysed you will find that, while it is true that the pension is increased by a dollar or two dollars a month, it is no

The Address-Mr. Fulton
real assistance to the veterans in solving the problem of meeting the increased cost of living.
From that point of view the speech from the throne, and the program we have since seen so far as veterans are concerned give us cause for nothing but lack of confidence in this government. Casting around for a simile or a description which one might apply to the speech from the throne and the lack of program which it revealed, one is left without adequate words. It has all the interest; it has all the enthusiasm; it has all the rousing qualities of last week's washing, and it is just about as limp. It reveals the government as being without a policy.
Another great lack in the speech from the throne is its complete ignoring of all questions of foreign affairs, its failure to reveal Canadian foreign policy. In view of what is happening in Europe today I think that lack should be immediately remedied. There should be without delay a statement from the minister outlining Canada's foreign policy with particular reference to current events in Europe.
We have seen events taking place step by step which are almost an exact parallel-I do not wish to use words which are incautious or unwise, but I think these are accurate-an exact parallel of what took place from 1935 to 1939. So far, Canada appears to have accepted the steps which have been taken. Other countries have issued strong statements which leave the world in no doubt as to what their policy is, in no doubt as to whether or not they accept the steps which have been taken, but as yet no such statement has been issued on the part of this country.
This afternoon the Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. St. Laurent) read a letter from the ambassador of Czechoslovakia to Canada announcing his resignation. That can surely be taken as a protest on the part of that gentleman against the events which have recently taken place in his country. That proper and courageous gesture cannot but have the admiration of all Canadians. I think all Canadians would be only too happy to see a similar courageous and proper move on the part of Canada in the way of a statement on foreign policy and on that particular matter.
In addition to what has taken place in Europe, there are other events which have taken place in South and Central America, in the Falkland islands and British Honduras. We cannot afford to ignore developments in the world today. We are frequently told that middle and lesser countries look to Canada 5849-118J
for guidance and leadership. Whether they do or not, and I think it is probably true that they do, it seems to me that Canada must take a position with respect to what is going on. Canada cannot expect to have a position in world affairs unless she takes a stand and makes that stand known.
In passing, I should like to say that I wish to echo what was said last night by the hon. member for Grey North (Mr. Case), that it is a great pity that we withdrew our occupation troops from Europe and thus lost that windowpane through which we might keep an eye on events in central Europe. By doing that we lost the opportunity of having a number of Canadians over there who could see for themselves what was going on in Europe, which would have been a tremendous help to our people in assessing and understanding what is actually taking place and in evaluating and working out a policy which might help to deal with events over there.
We remember what happened in the years before 1939 when step by step events occurred which led inevitably to war. It has been said by many qualified to know, that one of the contributing factors to the war was the uncertainty on the part of nations generally as to what would be the attitude of other nations, particularly the nations of the British commonwealth, and the middle powers. It seems to me that those events prove the necessity of having a statement now on foreign policy while we still have an opportunity to make it. I repeat my request that such a statement be made without delay.
I have indicated some of the reasons why I feel the speech from the throne contains in it nothing of any force and, therefore, why I support the motion of want of confidence which has been moved. However, in addition I should like to outline two steps of a constructive nature which I think should be taken and which would assist in building up this country in a positive way. One is the construction of a trans-Canada highway, and the other is the extension to the rest of Canada, particularly to British Columbia, of the provisions of the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act.
I have a resolution on the order paper advocating the construction of the trans-Canada highway and therefore I will not devote a great deal of time to that subject this afternoon, but the history of past sessions has showm that it is doubtful whether we shall have an opportunity of discussing private members' resolutions, and since I have waited for two years for an opportunity to discuss
The Address-Mr. Fulton

this matter, I should like to say just a word about it now.


The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr. Golding):: The hon. member is not at liberty to discuss a resolution on the order paper. If he wants to discuss the situation generally, he may do so, but he would not be in order to refer to the resolution.


Edmund Davie Fulton: I thank you, sir, for your guidance. I shall not refer to the resolution itself, but I think I am at liberty to discuss the general situation. I first brought this matter u.p in 1946 in an effort to discuss it while the estimates of the Department of Transport were being considered. My suggestion at that time was that we should have a trans-Canada highway policy and: that the administration of that policy should be under the Minister of Transport. That is why I sought to discuss it at that time, but it was ruled that such a discussion would be out of order because there was no item in the estimates of that department which had to do with highways. Accordingly, at the beginning of the 1947 session I placed a resolution on the order paper advocating that the dominion government should develop a trans-Canada highway policy and should immediately enter into negotiations with the provinces for the construction and maintenance of trans-Canada roads. It will be remembered that at that last session it was announced that, owing to the pressure of government business, no opportunity could be given for the discussion of private members' resolutions. Therefore I renewed my resolution and it stands in the same form on the order paper of this session.
There is across this country a great and growing body of opinion which supports the idea that there should be a trans-Canada highway system and that the dominion government should make a contribution to the construction of that road or roads. This is of particular interest to my constituency and to all of British Columbia, because highway construction there is more difficult and, therefore, more expensive than in most other provinces. I should1 like to read one resolution I have received, because I think it outlines the situation very neatly and suggests a proper solution. It is a resolution from the Central North Thompson board of trade, at Clearwater Station, British Columbia, and has been sent to the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King), the Minister of Mines and Resources (Mr. Glen), as well as to the Premier of British Columbia, myself and the provincial member for Kamloops. It reads as follows:
This board of trade wishes to draw your attention to the many requests from all parts of Canada, looking to the completion of a tr-ans-

Canada highway, and urges upon the governments of both the dominion of Canada and the province of British Columbia, to bake steps to further the formation of a highway commission that would have the power to carry to completion the construction of a trans-Canada highway, which is such an urgent necessity to our country.
And we urge that such a commission should adequately survey the various routes available, and at once bring up to standard, the route judged besit to serve the people of Canada with an all-Canadian highway.
We believe, sir, that only by co-operative action between the dominion and provincial governments can a highway be built adequate to the needs of the country, and we ask your earnest consideration of these apparent needs.
The letter is signed by the secretary of the Central North Thompson board of trade. I know that many members have received similar resolutions, and since the matter is of particular importance to my province and that part of the country in which I live, I have had many similar resolutions-from the Revelstoke board of trade, the Salmon Arm board of trade, the Blue River board of trade and the Kamloops board of trade, to mention only a few-along the same general lines. One should not overlook, in discussing this matter, the work done by the Calgary board of trade, which I believe was the first board to start a dominion-wide campaign some two or three years ago for a trans-Canada highway.
The position is complicated by what I might call a certain amount of competition as between various routes which have been suggested. I should like to mention and at the same time to pay tribute to those who are now advocating what is known as the Yellow-head route for the trans-Canada highway. They have sent to members of parliament a pamphlet outlining the advantages of that route and supporting, in general outline, federal aid in the construction of a trans-Canada highway. At this point I should like to read a resolution on this subject contained in the policy declarations of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce. I am reading from the policy declarations of the seventeenth annual meeting held at Winnipeg in 1946. I believe that a similar resolution is contained in the policy declarations of 1947, which I have not now at hand. But in 1946 the Canadian Chamber of Commerce passed the following resolution, headed, "A National Highway Program":
Be it resolved that the Canadian Chamber of Commerce recommends that the dominion government immediately negotiate with the provincial governments on a mutually acceptable basis for the development of a national, transcontinental highway construction and maintenance program.

The Address-Mr. Fulton
And be it further resolved that such a na-tionial transcontinental highway program provide for the maintenance and extension of the Alaska highway.
I read that particular resolution because, like the one from the Clearwater board of trade, it puts the matter in its proper light and avoids conflict between various groups. What it is concerned with is to obtain acceptance of the general principle that there should be a federal trans-Canada highway program and that a scheme of federal aid should be worked out with the provinces on a mutual basis for the construction and maintenance of such a road. Once that principle is accepted, it will be a matter for the dominion and provincial experts to decide what route or routes should be adopted; but, until we have accepted the general principle, I suggest that to enter into such details would only delay the issue and perhaps involve us in a discussion of matters we are not qualified to determine. It may well be found, once the principle is accepted and a survey is made, that there should be more than one route. I am going to suggest in a moment that there are good reasons why there should be more than one trans-Canada highway, but I think the discussion should be confined at the moment to the acceptance of the principle of federal aid in the construction and maintenance of trans-Canada roads.
It is interesting to observe that the Canadian House of Commons in 1912 and again in 1913 gave its approval by a recorded vote to the principle of federal aid in the construction of a trans-Canada road. The government of Sir Robert Borden in 1912, through the then minister of transport, introduced a bill to provide for future aid to the provinces in the construction of a main trans-Canada road. The bill passed the house, all parties accepting the principle on the second reading without a division, but the bill was defeated in the Senate. The then minister of transport reintroduced the bill in 1913 and it met exactly the same fate, being defeated again in the Senate. It will be remembered that at that time the government of Sir Robert Borden had been in office for only a year or two and that in the other chamber there was a majority of a political persuasion opposite to that of the government, which may or may not have had something to do with the defeat of the bill. At least these two facts went side by side; and the bill passpd the house but was defeated in the Senate. The important point to remember is that the House of Commons in two successive sessions accepted the principle of federal aid to the provinces in highway construction, and if the principle was
acceptable and such aid was felt to be necessary then, surely it is equally acceptable but far more necessary now, when highways are much more important to the maintenance of our economy than they were before.
Another precedent which might be urged in support of the idea is the practice in the United States, where the federal government makes a 50 per cent contribution to the state governments for the construction and maintenance of federal highways.
Some of the concrete reasons why there should be such a national transcontinental road and a dominion highway policy are, first, for purposes of defence. After all, if there is a next war, should a next war come, if it takes the form often ascribed to it of heavy aerial attacks our railways will be vulnerable, and it seems to me that we should have an alternative trans-Canada route, a first-class highway or possibly two or more as our population warrants. Second, it would be an additional encouragement to tourist traffic. Third, because of the important contribution made to our economy and to the maintenance of our trade and commerce by the trucking industry. An adequate first-class trans-Canada route is required for that purpose. Fourth, to enable our population to move more freely about the country. In this connection I wish to make this point, that if the federal government would assist in the construction of main trans-Canada roads the provinces would be able to bring the secondary roads, the north and south roads, up to adequate standards, which in turn would assist in the development of the back country much more rapidly by enabling our population to move in and develop it. Canada's history has been that of population following the lines of communication. The railways have made a tremendous contribution to our development. I think it is fair to say that without them we would not have had the development we have in Canada today. But you cannot build a railway to every nook and cranny in Canada.
If the federal government would assume a portion of the responsibility of constructing and maintaining main roads the provinces could go ahead with their proper share of responsibility, which is the development of the back areas, enabling the country to be opened up and a great constructive development to take place.
I should like to refer again to the particular position of British Columbia which, as I said, is mountainous and sparsely populated. We find it very difficult and expensive per head of present population per mile of highway construction. And it can easily be seen that federal assistance in such a matter would be of tremendous benefit to our province.
1S50
The Address-Mr. Fulton

The other matter of a constructive nature that I wanted to mention this afternoon is the extension to the rest of Canada, and particularly again, from our point of view, to British Columbia, of the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act. In passing, I should like to observe I realize it may be charged, as it has been in the past, that members of the opposition, myself included, are constantly criticizing the government for extravagance, saying you should economize, and then coming forward with suggestions which will involve further expenditures. The point I make in reference	to	that is	that we do	advocateeconomy. We advocate economy where there is improper extravagance. It is easy enough to mention some of the cases: government publicity, overcrowding of the civil service, unnecessary appointments where they exist, and so on. We have never advocated the curtailment	of	proper	development	of	ourresources	by	what would amount	to	falseeconomy. We advocate proper expenditure, compensated	for by	proper economy.	It
certainly could not be charged that these expenditures are inflationary, because, unlike normal government expenditures, these would be productive, and I have never heard it said that anything which contributes to the wealth of the country in a real sense is inflationary.
In speaking thus, and asking the government to extend to British Columbia the provisions of the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act, I should like to renew the plea that I made approximately a year ago in the house along the same lines. Speaking here on March 6, 1947, I outlined the principles which I felt could be usefully followed in extending the act to British Columbia. The first of these principles was that it should be viewed as a long-term project and financed possibly by issuing bonds which are redeemable in series over a period of years, perhaps up to fifty years, so that you do not saddle the land or the country in one year or in a few years with the cost of this development.
Second, it should be regarded as an integrated project; that is, any construction done under the P.F.R.A. should be worked into an integrated project along the lines of the projects in the United States, which have to do with both irrigation and the development of power. Here again, Mr. Speaker, I should like to say this. Some people say that we are advocating tremendous expenditures before the population of the country warrants it. May I point out that surely the history of Canada shows that where we have been bold and courageous and built railways and made capital expenditures in advance of population, population has rapidly followed

and taken advantage of the resources which have been provided for it. I want to say this: to my mind all these matters involve and are made feasible only by a courageous appreciation of the necessity of Canada having a larger population, and the taking of steps to provide it.
I said that we criticized the speech from the throne because we feel it does not contain anything constructive. We believe that Canada can be built into a great country in our own time, and these are some of the steps which we should like to see taken to bring about that result. We are not building just for ourselves. We suggest that w-e build for a great nation in the future as well, for our children and our children's children, and to make it possible also for more people to come to this country, to make it possible for us to absorb them and provide them with the opportunities for useful production.
In the same way that population formerly followed rails, they will now' follow roads, but to an even greater extent I think they will follow power. Industry will follow power. In British Columbia we have a tremendous power potential as well as lands available for irrigation, so that our province particularly is lying there waiting for something like an integrated project which may be brought about under the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act.
The history of the matter, in so far as extension of the act to British Columbia is concerned, is a little disappointing. In 1946 it w'as indicated that legislation would be introduced 'at the next session, that is, in 1947, to extend the act to British Columbia. In 1947 w'e kept pressing the minister. He indicated that he hoped to be able to bring down proper legislation. On May 22, however, he made a statement which definitely precluded that possibility. On May 22 the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) said that the dominion government would be will-to enter into negotiation or consultation with the provinces on individual projects which they might bring forward, but that there would be no general legislation extending the act to British Columbia. Why that should be I am unable to understand. I obtained the most recent report of the administration of the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1947. On page 1 of the report I find an outline of the principles of development as laid dow'n by the administration of the act. It reads as follows:
Water development-A program designed to effect the conservation of the limited -water resources of the prairies for farm domestic stock-watering and irrigation purposes. Ad>-

The Address-Mr. Fulton
visory engineering and financial assistance for prairie farmers and rural communities in the construction of (logouts, dams and irrigation works.
It seems to me that these principles are as fully applicable to interior British Columbia as they are to the prairie projects.
When dealing with the expenditures so far made under the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act, one finds that to date in Manitoba there has been spent $135,134.36; in Saskatchewan, $3,893,815.94; in Alberta, $786,890.98, or a total of $4,815,841.68 in the prairie provinces. In the same period there has been spent in British Columbia $58,298.04. That has been spent on a project at Pemberton Meadows, where the engineers of the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act are assisting the local community in reclaiming land where it has been flooded, and enabling it to be brought under cultivation again. For that assistance the people of the interior, and I think it would be correct to say the people of the whole province, are grateful, but we still hope for and we still ask for the extension of the principles and the enabling legislation of the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act to the province as a whole.
There are other local schemes in which the prairie farm rehabilitation administration are assisting, in conjunction with the Department of Veterans Affairs, in putting small local irrigation projects into operation to enable land to be irrigated which has been taken up under the Veterans Land Act. There are two such projects in the immediate vicinity of Kamloops, and I think two others in the Okanagan valley, but these are very small projects in comparison with the total area available for irrigation.
It is estimated that in the interior of British Columbia there are nearly 100,000 acres available for irrigation in the Thompson and Okanagan valleys alone; in the vicinity of Salmon Arm, Kamloops, Ashcroft, at Lillooet on the Fraser river and at points in the Okanagan. These lands are now available; they are waiting for irrigation. They have also other resources which, if power could be brought in at the same time, would enable the agricultural population and the agricultural industries to be complemented and balanced by the development of light secondary manufacturing industries. After all, we do not want to see, and I do not think the house or the country as a whole wants to see, our emphasis laid exclusively on further development of the agricultural population. It seems to me that what we want is a balanced economy so that, whereas at the moment we are
almost entirely dependent on export markets for our produce, we could, if we had greater industrial development out west, support a greater industrial population. Thus we could consume at home more of the food we produce, and at the same time use on our farms more machinery produced at home; or to put it the other way, produce at home more mechanical equipment for use in agriculture, as well as food, clothing, et cetera, for our increased population. In this way we would be a little less vulnerable to world depressions. I am not suggesting that we should isolate ourselves or close ourselves off, but I suggest that at the moment we are perhaps the most vulnerable nation in the world to a worldwide depression. If we would balance our economy a little bit better, we would be a little less vulnerable.
Our province, together with so many other areas throughout the west, is literally crying for irrigation and power development, which would enable us to put our agriculture on a stable, sure foundation and at the same time to build up the secondary industries and balance off the increased agricultural production. So I hope that the Minister of Agriculture this year will enable us to extend the P.F.R.A. to British Columbia.


Mr. JEAN FRANCOIS POULIOT (Temis-couata):: In the first place, Mr. Speaker, I desire to congratulate warmly the mover (Mr. Dion) and the seconder (Mr. Dickey) of the address. I am the more delighted to do so because the mover was born in my constituency; every one of my constituents is following his career with great interest, and we wish him success. The seconder comes from the great city of Halifax, and he also did very well when he seconded the motion.
I have been a member of parliament for a great number of years, and I never before witnessed anything like what happened last night when two members from British Columbia, who do not understand a word of French, tried to howl down the hon. member for St. Maurice-Lafleche (Mr. Hamel) who was speaking in French. As a Liberal, I am not accustomed to those tactics. If that obstruction had come from fascists or communists, I would have said to myself, "Well, this is the natural course. They follow their principles. They are against freedom of speech." But the cornerstone of Liberalism is freedom of speech, and the speech of any member cannot be offensive to anyone who cannot understand the language in which it' is uttered. Therefore I could not understand why there was such objection to the speech by the hon. gentleman. I protest against those tactics. As a Liberal, I cannot conceive how anyone who
The Address-Mr. Pouliot

calls himself a Liberal should try to howl down anyone who thinks differently. I do not say that because the hon. member for St. Maurice-Lafleche is one of the two members who compose his group. I have no particular interest in them. But he is a well-read member and a man of culture. He does not speak often in the house and it seems to me that, instead of anyone discouraging him from speaking, he should be encouraged to do so oftener, even by those who do not share his views.
With regard to freedom of speech, my main contention is that any hon. member should be given an opportunity to say all he has to say, within the rules, provided that those who answer him are given the same opportunity. There are 245 of us in the house, and naturally we cannot expect that all members should think alike. That is a complete impossibility. Besides that, I do not know that what happened last night would have been tolerated anywhere else, and Mr. Speaker did very well in stopping that performance.
But there is a thing we call retributive justice. There is the retaliation that fate brings to those who employ those tactics outside the house. Although I myself have never retaliated, I well remember the tactics of the Bloc Populaire in. the province of Quebec. They tried to break up meetings, a procedure to which I have been a witness on many occasions. I well recall an incident that occurred at Shawinigan Falls, the place where the hon. member for St. Maurice-Lafleche lived. I went there with two of my colleagues, the hon. member for Levis (Mr. Bourget) and the hon. member for Quebec West and South (Mr. Parent). We went there to hold a meeting. Naturally some of the key men of the Bloc Populaire were there, and they tried to break up our meeting. It took me half an hour of physical exertion to change the trend of the meeting. In the first place, they were jeering at the Liberal candidate, and there was such a tumult at a certain moment that I had to cover the microphone with my hand to speak to the crowd that was outside the hall. Those who were within the hall went outside to hear me speak through the loudspeaker. In the end, those outside were convinced that the speech was orthodox, and they got into the hall. And those very people who jeered at the Liberal candidate came to the stand to shake hands with him and congratulate him. They gave him an ovation. My friends, the hon. member for Levis and the hon. member for Quebec West and South, were witnesses of that incident which happened in the constituency of the hon. member for St. Maurice-Lafleche.

I remember other instances in which the Bloc Populaire did not want those who did not share their views to express themselves. Those are not Liberal tactics. If the hon. member for St. Maurice-Lafleche had some difficulty yesterday, it was precisely on account of retributive justice. He reminded me of Louis XVI who had to pay for the guilt of Louis XV. That is an old story. But I repeat that whoever tries to prevent a member from saying in this house what he has to say on behalf of his electors is not a Liberal and cannot claim to be a Liberal. I know that, with due afterthought, those who were guilty of that breach of the rules of the house will realize the significance of what they did last night, and will regret it. I do not say that in my own behalf, because I can handle my case alone. But I want to see a certain amount of dignity in this house, and I want the true principles of democracy maintained. How can anyone dare to speak of democracy when he prevents the other fellow from saying what he has to say? That sort of thing cannot go on in this house. Mr. Speaker stopped it, and I admired the way he performed his duty.
Well, that is for the Bloc Populaire, but there is something else about which we must be very careful, and that is the undermining of our democratic institutions by those who are not numerous enough to break up our meetings, and who seldom bring in outsiders to do so, but who every week or every other week write articles that tend to destroy the pillars of democracy in this country. They represent parliament as a wrong institution, as an institution full of dirt, as a place where no one is doing anything useful. Those men do not realize that they are committing hara-kiri; that they are destroying their own faith, destroying the confidence the people may have in themselves as well as in members of parliament. Very often I disagree with my colleagues. Why should I be a yes man? Why should I be a rubber stamp in this house? I have my own views to express, but I believe everyone else has the right to express his views and try to convince the majority.


John Ritchie MacNicol: You are one man who is not a rubber stamp.


Jean-François Pouliot: Thank you very much, sir; you are not, either. You are a great man and so is your deskmate, the hon. member for Broadview (Mr. Church). So are all my colleagues, including the hon. member for Fraser Valley (Mr. Cruickshank) when he wants to be. It is pitiful that these things happen. I understand that there is a certain division among those who belong to the various denominations of the Social Credit

The Address-Mr. Pouliot
fold. It is their right. I hear there are the Douglasites and the Manningites, and I do not know the difference. I am told it is their philosophy that is different. That is their business.


Mr. LOW:: We get good objective lessons from the Liberals.


Jean-François Pouliot: Not in the Social Credit philosophy.


Solon Earl Low: You have "Little Chicago" and the other divisions.


Jean-François Pouliot: My hon. friend surely agrees with what I said a moment ago about the Bloc Populaire?


Solon Earl Low: Yes.


Jean-François Pouliot: And probably the Bloc Populaire will agree with what I am saying now about the Social Credit party. However, I am not interested in the discussion between the Douglasites and the Manningites, because it is within the boundaries of the province of Alberta and they may settle their differences themselves. But I am interested in what happens in the province of Quebec with respect to l'union des electeurs.


Mr. CAOUETTE:: A nice organization.


Jean-François Pouliot: When that statement is made by the only member of this house belonging to it I remind him of the old proverb: "Vante par soi-meme ou bien par sa mere, cela ne vaut pas grand chose."


Mr. GAUTHIER (Portneuf):: Avalez cela en passant.


Jean-François Pouliot: The hon. member for
Pontiac (Mr. Caouette) should be more modest. He should commence all his speeches with the invocation, "O Lord, I am only ash and dust." Then his speeches would be much more powerful. I do not want him to do any more than that. Moreover I would not ask him to say it aloud; he may say it only to himself. If he says that, and understands what he says, it will be very profitable to him.


David Réal Caouette: Is that what you have been doing?


Jean-François Pouliot: Yes. I fully realize that I am only ash and dust, and I do not attach more importance than I should to what I have to say. But after long years in parliament I believe I have the right to express my appreciation of the various groups in the house. I appreciate my friendship with those who belong to so many different parties, but I do not agree with the political philosophy of some groups, nor do I agree with the practices in which they indulge in order to
try to get importance and ultimate power, which is far away. But I will tell the leader of the Social Credit group in the house, for whom I have great respect, and the ex-leader, for whom also I have great respect, that there is no reason for them to allow continuation of the publication of libels on parliament by a newspaper that calls itself the organ of l'union des electeurs. I do not know the personal relations of the hon. member for Pontiac with the leader and other members of the Social Credit group. It is none of my business; I am not interested in that. What interests me is the effect of what they are doing. It will not hurt me. In my constituency that paper is not taken seriously; but their aim is to slur parliament, to slur our national institutions and to destroy democratic government in this country.


David Réal Caouette: No, no.


Jean-François Pouliot: My hon. friend may interrupt me. When he spoke I did not interrupt him, but next time I shall do so.


David Réal Caouette: I don't care.


Jean-François Pouliot: I know my hon. friend does not care, because he is so full of himself he thinks he is the depositary of revealed truth. Not only that, but he thinks he is the only depositary of revealed truth throughout the world.


David Réal Caouette: Oh, no.


Jean-François Pouliot: Perhaps more than that; perhaps on the planet Mars, too.


David Réal Caouette: And on the moon.


Jean-François Pouliot: Yes, my hon friend is on the moon. Here we have an example, Mr. Speaker, of the sort of joint meetings that might be held with these gentlemen in the province of Quebec. Is it serious? Is there anything in it? There was nothing in my discussion with the hon. gentleman. It was just superficial, just jokes and jeers and boasting on his part. Do you think that is the way to educate the people of Canada? I should like to see the hon. gentleman go to Edmonton, the capital city of Alberta, and address the legislature, making the kind of speech he delivers in this House of Commons. He would receive the treatment that was given by two hon. members yesterday to the hon. member for St. Maurice-Lafleche; he would be unable to proceed. And I can say to my hon. friend- who, as I have already told him, is worthy of credit, and I meant it-that he can serve this country and can be useful to it by adopting other tactics to try to convince the people that he is right. I do not believe in brass bands, which strike the ear but seldom
The Address-Mr. Pouliot

appeal to the intelligence. I am not impressed by them. I am not impressed by noise, nor am I impressed by threats.


David Réal Caouette: Neither am I.


Jean-François Pouliot: I will ask my hon. friend to keep silent. I am not going to argue with him further. If he has anything to say he may say it later. But I may tell him that what is being published in the organ of l'union des electeurs is exactly what is being said by the Bloc Populaire at its regular meetings. They try to undermine the faith of the Canadian people in our democratic institutions, and the whole matter should be brought before the country. They should be told they are wrong in, using those tactics. If their policies are so good, they should take other methods to try to make them acceptable to the minds of honest and intelligent Canadians.


Mr. KUHL:: Give us an example of what you are talking about.
Some bon. MEMBERS: Oh, oh.


Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER:: The hon. member for Temiscouata has the floor and I would ask hon. members not to interrupt him.


Jean-François Pouliot: I cannot thank the Chair, but I can offer you, Mr. Speaker, my appreciation of your fairness. But this is an example of what happened. At joint meetings in the province of Quebec, when the Social Credit candidates dare not show up, as a rule they disappear; they vanish. We have to run after them to try to meet them in discussion. But when they are there they interrupt, they heckle, they make a noise and they think they convince the people that their organization is the best one, the one that we should have in this country.
Without discussing this matter further, I desire to draw your attention, Mr. Speaker, to the fact that what we are discussing now is the jubamendment moved by the leader of the Social Credit group.


Solon Earl Low: No, the C.C.F.


Jean-François Pouliot: The C.C.F. group; pardon me. It reads:
This house regrets that Your Excellency's advisers have failed to use the powers provided Dy parliament to control prices, and by their actions have caused alarming increases in. the cost of living and ,a dangerous lowering of the living standards of the Canadian people.
This at least is frank. It is a true definition of the socialist policy. Controls are essentially socialistic, and the idea of hon. gentlemen is to enforce their policies over this country. How? Through boards? In the civil service there are many people who are helpful, who are well

qualified, who are ready to help so long as we deal with them individually; but as soon as they sit on boards they become different people. The decision of the board is not a decision of the minister or of the deputy minister. It is an anonymous decision, a decision which is made by a body that is irresponsible, that very often is not obliged to render an account to parliament; and the lust for power seems to be so great in the minds of some of these people that they take a sadistic pleasure in refusing all reasonable requests that are made to them.
I am against boards because they are irresponsible, because they are not responsible to parliament. In Germany, a long time before Hitler, in 1930 and 1931, there were boards that were organized to look after public business. Such boards are a very dangerous thing, and there should be no more.
But think, sir, of the number of boards that have been established during the war and since the end of the war. They are countless. They are men who sit on one or two or three boards and make decisions, and they have to make hasty decisions. They do not have time to consider any matter on its merits, and very often they have to rely on decisions that are made by subalterns and minor clerks and others who make the decisions which are the ridings that all interested parties have to accept.
I do not see that such a practice can be good. I will appeal to all old Liberals who are now in the ranks of the C.C.F. group. I have sympathy for them. They deserve every kind of sympathy because they must be miserable.


Mr. THATCHER:: Why?


Jean-François Pouliot: Because they are not free.


Wilbert Ross Thatcher: Why?


Jean-François Pouliot: The hon. gentleman should be the last one to ask me why. The only thing I have to tell him is to use his memory, to remember what happened some time ago when he was denied his right to safeguard his own individuality and express his personal views about a certain matter. I believe we should be free. I have the highest regard for the hon. member for Moose Jaw (Mr. Thatcher). He is gifted, and he belongs to a Liberal family.


Wilbert Ross Thatcher: That was not my fault.


Jean-François Pouliot: I have regard for the hon. gentleman not only because he belongs to a Liberal family, but much more so because he was bom a Liberal and cannot be otherwise. Therefore he must be very miserable. This is the fault of the wrong sociology of the C.C.F. group. Socialism is despotism.

The Address-Mr. Pouliot


An hon. MEMBER:: Oh, no.


Jean-François Pouliot: Nothing else. Socialism tries to force opinions upon the people, to tell them that the brain-trusters, the men with long hair and horn-rimmed spectacles are the geniuses who will lead the people into the promised land. I hope they will never come to power because their ideology is wrong, because it is not in conformity with the natural inclination and aspiration of the people for freedom in a democratic country.


Alexander Maxwell (Max) Campbell: I hope you live another ten years. You will see something different.


Jean-François Pouliot: My hon. friend is a good Scotsman and I will tell him that the Scots are Liberal. He must be a Liberal himself and he must be miserable himself. I will ask him another question. If he enjoys being miserable himself, why should he think of imposing his misery on others?


Mr. MACDONNELL (Muskoka-Ontario):: Will the hon. gentleman permit a question? He has just made a far-reaching statement about the Scottish race. I wonder if he would mind giving us something in support of the assertion that they are predominantly Liberal.


Jean-François Pouliot: Being a Scot, the hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario is also Liberal. The trouble with him is that he ignores it.


Mr. KNOWLES:: He knows there is no difference between Liberals and Tories.


Jean-François Pouliot: There is another thing too. He does not give us any opportunity to realize that he is a Liberal at heart. I am serious when I say that. I will tell the hon. gentleman and his leader that when they defend liberty and freedom of speech, then they are acting as Liberals. They may call themselves communists, Progressive Conservatives or Conservatives, but they will be Liberals at heart because they are defending a principle which is the cornerstone of Liberalism established in a democratic country. The hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario has asked me a question and he has reminded me of the existence of the Progressive Conservative party which I had forgotten about completely.
All the discussion that has occurred during the debate on the address has been interesting. Every speech has been a good one. However, some of the discussion has been entirely irrelevant. To be precise, I mean what has been said about Hong Kong. Before I close, I want to refer to my notes in order to tell the house what was said about this matter a long time ago. On January 22, 1942, I corrected the official report as follows:
Mr. Jean-Francois Pouliot (Temiscouata): Mr. Speaker, on a question of privilege, and
referring to page 4837 of Hansard of last session, the Hansard of yesterday, I am quoted there as follows:
"Mr. Pouliot:	The minister should resign
because of that fact." What I said was:
"The Minister of National Defence should resign om account of the Hong Kong affair."
The record is not complete because immediately after I had said that, the leader of the opposition (Mr. Hanson) shouted "Order" to prevent my saying anything further. That was, as always, a complete contradiction; he does not know what he wants.
I have before me a copy of the Conservative Toronto Telegram of January 23, 1942, the following day. I should like to quote from an editorial entitled, "Opposition forces the door to open inquiry into incompetence." The editorial reads:
It is not often that it is possible to agree with
J.	F. Pouliot, M.P., the effervescent member for Temiscouata, yet in his statement that the Minister of Defence should resign over the Hong Kong affair-a statement that was drowned by cries of "Order"-he appears to have been the only member of parliament who recognized the gravity of the situation revealed by the admissions of Honourable J. L. Ralston.
Then an advertisement appeared in the press asking young men to enlist in the Royal Rifles of Canada. This advertisement was silly because it was entitled, "Remember Hong Kong." The following appeared in the News of June 27, 1942, having been written by Judith Robinson:
. On February 5, Jean Francois Pouliot objected to a new recruiting poster which, beginning with the words: "Remember Hong Kong," announced that the Royal Rifles of Canada would be reconstituted 100 per cent. Mr. Pouliot considered it would be better that Canadian soldiers and sailors should forget Hong Kong, though the rest of us might remember it all our lives.
The advertisement was then changed to read:
Vengeons les heros de Hong Kong
We had three joint ministers of national defence who were equally responsible for the sending of unarmed troops to Hong Kong. What happened when I asked for the resignation of Colonel Ralston? I was howled down by the then leader of the opposition, Mr. Hanson, and by the other Conservative members. What happened afterwards? The leader of the opposition (Mr. Bracken) went to Grey North and he eulogized the minister of national defence who was responsible for the sending of troops to Hong Kong. He was different from his illustrious predecessor, the then member for York-Sunbury, Mr. Hanson. Mr. Hanson did not want me to ask for the resignation of Ralston, but the hon. gentleman went further; he eulogized Ralston. In Grey North he said that Ralston was a great
The Address-Mr. Pouliot

man. How could he be a great man when he was responsible for the sending of unarmed troops to Hong Kong?
I have come back to the fold. The reason is that the three defence ministers who acted during the war had left the cabinet. If they had stayed in the cabinet I would have stayed outside the fold of the Liberal party. The other day we heard the hon. member for Quebec South (Mr. Power) speak about Hong Kong. He said that he wanted the whole correspondence tabled. For purely personal reasons I did not mention him at the time I asked for the resignation of Colonel Ralston. However, the Tory party applauded him. The Tory party applauded the hon. member who was one of the joint ministers of national defence. That being so, how can they come now and speak about the dismal Hong Kong affair?
The leader of the opposition and the members of the Conservative opposition are far from being logical. It is time to bring them down to fundamentals and tell them that one of the great rules of law is that no one can invoke his own turpitude. Many times during the war the Tory party and the few Conservative members who belonged to it were wrongly led by the then leader of the opposition. I will go further. When I spoke about the responsibility of a Tory senator who is now dead and who was inspector general of the western command; when I asked if he had done his duty, if it was his duty to see that these men were fully equipped, what did Ralston answer? He said it was none of his business. That was Ralston's business.
Now we hear a minister of the crown saying that Ralston is not here to defend himself. He was here when I denounced him and when he was unable to answer when I showed him the label from a bottle of John de Kuyper gin. How can a minister of the crown say that Ralston is out of the chamber now when he was here doing a wrong job and when I insisted upon his resignation? I did not get it, but finally, when, he and his two colleagues went out, I decided that it was time for me to come back to the fold. I will ask my hon. friends of the Conservative party as well as those of the Liberal party to realize that all the parties were guilty in the Hong Kong affair. I remember the time when the then leader of the opposition, Mr. Hanson, was saying from his seat as Conservative leader in this house: Why do we not send our men to all parts of the world so that they can share in every battle? That was said by the Conservative leader, who was the loud-speaker of Arthur Meighen, and who was never disowned or denied by anyone of the Conservative

party. I will tell the Conservative party to break their ties with the ugly past and think of the future, instead of indulging in such dismal practices.
The truth has come out, but we are not here to have a lecture on history. We have to think of the future, and when I think of the bright boys and girls of the coming generation I wonder if the thirty years I have spent in politics to advocate democracy, freedom and liberty have been wasted. They have been wasted for my generation, but I hope they have not been wasted for the generations to come.
I had the opportunity and the pleasure and the privilege of addressing groups of young Liberals in the province of Ontario and I realized that they are Liberals at heart. I realize that, in spite of the effort that has been made by long beards to enslave them into socialism, they are reluctant to get into it. They want to see the Liberal doctrine exemplified and put into practice in this country. Therefore, as a man who is getting old and has been a long time in politics, I give my confidence to the coming generation, which is much better than ours because they are more open-minded.


James Horace King: I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member but his time has expired.


Mr. C. E. STEPHENSON (Durham):: Mr. Speaker, in rising to take part in this debate I should like, first, to congratulate the mover (Mr. Dion) and the seconder (Mr. Dickey) of the address. Although we realize they did not have much material to work with we must commend them for the fine work they did.
In this debate the private member is allowed considerable latitude to discuss various subjects and tell something of the constituency which he has the honour to represent. I should like to say a few words about Durham county. We have heard many members say they represent the finest county in Canada, so that I think I should take this opportunity to tell the house about the best.
Durham county fronts on lake Ontario and is located about sixty miles east of Toronto and about 220 miles from this city. It was one of the first districts settled in the province, and I suggest that the settlers used good judgment. It was from Durham county in the early years that the finest lumber was shipped to England from our fine natural harbour at Port Hope. Even today there is a wooded area known as Mast Woods, from which was taken the tall, straight timbers which supplied masts for the British navy and their sailing ships.

The Address-Mr. Stephenson
Since the land was cleared, Durham county has become pre-eminently a diversified agricultural district, producing choice livestock, grain, tobacco and apples. Throughout the county there are many fine churches and schools; in the urban centres are located many fine factories which manufacture, for instance, rubber tires, conveyers, steel files, chemicals, fertilizers, leather goods, enamel ware, brass fittings, and a new factory has just been completed to manufacture compressors.
News is supplied to Durham county by several weekly newspapers and also dailies. I may say, in passing, that we have a daily paper in Port Hope which was first published in 1831, and has been published ever since, which I think is quite a record. We have also a weekly, the Canadian Statesman, the editorials of which are quoted all over Canada. It was awarded the EditoiV Trophy for the finest editorial last year on national unity. A signal honour was also conferred on the editor, Mr. George James, who won the silver medal given by the association of Canadian advertisers for the best contribution to advertising promotion in Canada in 1947. I think that is something we can all be proud of in Durham county.
I would be remiss if I did not mention that in Durham county is located the largest radium refinery in the world. Here also uranium is refined from which the atomic bomb is created. This new creation having served purposes of destruction, it is the hope of us all, even in the present state of the world that, through scientific research, this great energy-producing element may be used in the future for constructive instead of destructive purposes.
Durham county is a natural beauty spot. Its rolling hills are picturesque, while in the valleys flow spring-fed streams wherein sport the speckled trout. The inland lakes of Scugog and Rice provide the tourists with the big fellows such as muskellunge, pickerel and bass, which sometimes, of course, get away. On behalf of the citizens of Durham county I extend to all an invitation to visit this grand part of Canada.
I should like to make a few observations on our national problems. A, question that is asked of every member of the house and practically of all Canadians is this: How is it that we have side by side these two countries, Canada and the United States, separated by an imaginary boundary line; yet in the United States we find 145,000,000 people, while here in Canada we still have only 12,000,000? Is it because there has been no vision in this country? Is this why we are standing still with only 12,000,000 people? The fathers of confederation showed great vision for this
country. They realized that we must have railways and canals, and canals and railways were built to consolidate this great country east and west. Those railways were built under adverse circumstances, but the fathers of confederation had the vision and the courage to see that that task must be done. There has been some advancement made in this country, but we appear to have come to a period where all vision has been lost and not much encouragement is being given to explore our great natural resources. We know that we have the oil, the coal, and the minerals but very little encouragement is given to bringing these natural resources into production. That is why we have to buy these products today from the United States, which in turn is responsible for our adverse exchange position with that country. We have, over the past years, been selling our natural resources down the river for ten cents and buying them back in processed form for one dollar. That is one of the reasons why we have always had an adverse balance of trade with the United States.
Recently legislation was brought before the house to restrict some goods coming into Canada, thereby encouraging the production of materials in this country. I believe this is a step in the right direction, but it is a step which should have been taken many years ago. II we are to make a great nation of Canada we must have the vision and the courage to exploit our natural resources. The bill which was brought before the house was called, "An act to conserve foreign exchange." I suggest to you, Mr. Speaker, the measure could better have been called, "An act to conserve and manufacture Canada's natural resources." I know the Liberal party would not accept that policy because it has been the policy of Conservative parties for years. The minister hesitated to say that the measure was a protectionist measure or a conservation measure, but he would rather give it the name of an emergency measure, which may come in today and go out tomorrow, leaving our manufacturers, and those who want to expand this country, in the position where they do not know when it is going out. What encouragement is that to our manufacturers and the people who try to produce things in this country?
I would say, sir, that twenty years ago, had the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King! not been so busy keeping his political ear to the ground and forming political strategy; had he been listening to the real needs of this country, we might not now find ourselves in the position in which we are today.
The Address-Mr. Stephenson

Over the doors of this parliament there is an inscription which no doubt all hon. members have seen. It reads, "Where there is no vision the people perish.'' I would suggest that these words might be well emblazoned across the walls of this chamber in order to remind the government and others in this country of the fact that where there is no vision the people perish. I maintain that what we need today in Canada is more vision.
The general opinion is abroad in this country that our frontiers have all been explored. I think that is an idea which should be removed because our children may possibly think that Canada has no further frontiers to explore, and therefore we find that they are drifting away from Canada and going to the United States. This is a question that we must all answer. Why is it that the United States has a population of 145,000,000 people today while we have barely 12,000,000? It is time that the government took off its political glasses in order that it might see the possibilities in Canada in their true light and do something about them.
I should also like to refer to the matter of immigration. The possible reason for our small population is that the government has had no immigration policy. It was interesting to note the remarks of the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) when he spoke across the country lately. He told some of his audience that we should have and would have 500,000 people coming into this country every year, and this number would be eventually increased to one million people a year. The minister might have been talking politics, but it was interesting to note a recent item in the Globe and Mail, which showed that 48,000 immigrants were admitted to Canada last year. Something must be done f
to induce immigration into this country, because we know that today there are no tradesmen. If you want a tradesman today you cannot find him. There is no farm labour. It is impossible for the farmer to get help. I suggest to you, sir, that something must be done if we wish to increase industry in this country. According to a recent survey, the average age of the Ontario farmer is around sixty. I maintain that a man of this age cannot carry on and do all the work that is required of him to run a farm efficiently. That is the reason we are not getting the production in Ontario that we should have. The farmers have come to this position. During the war years they worked hard to produce everything for the war effort. They could not get the help they needed. Consequently they say, we will put in a little grain, feed a few hogs and cattle,, raise a few poultry and let it go at that. The result is that the land which should be worked today is going back to grass. Many of the farms are being abandoned. I would suggest that something be done immediately to procure farm labour for the farmers of Canada.
On motion of Mr. Stephenson the debate was adjourned.



BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

Mr. McCANN:: Tomorrow we shall continue with this debate in the hope that it may be finished.


Mr. ADAMSON:: If it is concluded, what shall we take up later?


James Joseph McCann: The Minister of Finance's emergency measure or the wheat bill.


[Stage Direction]
At six o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.
[Stage Direction]
Thursday, March 4, 1948