1948-02-17

Mr. C. C. I. MERRITT (Vancouver-Burrard):: Mr. Speaker, referring to the question of privilege raised yesterday by the hon. member for Vancouver North (Mr. Sinclair), as a matter of the expense of travelling by air is important to all members coming from distant parts of Canada. I wonder if Your Honour would inform the house of the reasons for the decision to which reference was made.


Mr. SPEAKER:: I expect to be able to give an answer tomorrow.



WELCOME TO MR. WYLIE AND DR. BEAUCHESNE ON RETURN TO HOUSE AFTER ILLNESS

Mr. T. J. BENTLEY (Swift Current):: Mr. Speaker, yesterday there were expressions of good will in respect of members who had returned to the house after an absence because of illness. I should like to make similar reference to the hon. member for Medicine Hat (Mr. Wylie) who has just returned after a serious illness. I hope his health has improved.


Mr. J. A. BRADETTE (Cochrane):: Mr. Speaker, on a question of personal privilege, I know I am voicing the sentiment of every member of the house in saying that we are very glad indeed to see the worthy Clerk of the House back to his post. I also express the hope that his health is permanently reestablished.



NATIONAL DEFENCE


Hon. BROOKE CLAXTON (Minister of National Defence):: Mr. Speaker, I believe it would be the wish of hon. members that I should make a statement drawing to the attention of the house and the country the
arrangements made for the training of officers for the Royal Canadian Navy, the Canadian Army and the Royal Canadian Air Force.
During the war, combined operations under unified command brought victory to the allied side. Considerable progress has already been made in the unification of the Department of National Defence and in the co-ordination of the three services.
As a beginning in co-operation we have decided to require the same entrance qualification and to give the same general education at the same places for cadets in all three services. This arrangement has been worked out after studies of educational experience in this country as well as in Great Britain, the United States, Australia and elsewhere.
The naval college at Royal Roads was this year extended to include air cadets. In September it will also be open to candidates for the army. Royal Roads will have a two-year course, corresponding closely to the first two years in engineering at a university.
Also in September of this year Royal Military College, Kingston, will reopen for cadets for the three services. The first two years will be identical with those at Royal Roads and there will be a further two years, making a four-year course in all. On the completion of their course at Royal Roads cadets for all branches of the three services will go on to complete their course at Royal Military College except that cadets for the executive and marine engineering branches of the navy, after two years at Royal Military College o? Royal Roads, will take special training before being posted as sub-lieutenants.
Entrance requirements for both Royal Roads and Royal Military College will be senior matriculation or its equivalent. Candidates must have reached their sixteenth but not their twentieth birthday on 1st January preceding entrance. Naval applicants, except in the case of candidates from classical colleges, must not have reached their nineteenth birthday on 1st January.
The standard achieved will be approximately the same as that in a four-years arts course and three years towards an engineering degree. Following graduation from Royal Military College, students in technical and engineering subjects will be carried on for an extra year at a university to give them a university degree.
National Defence

During the summer months students will do three and half months' practical work with their branch of their service. At the end of the course they will thus have completed almost a year's practical training in addition to their general education, which will be on a broader basis than ever before.
The second source of officers is the universities. Arrangements have been made with twenty-two universities under which undergraduates may join the Canadian officers' training corps or university naval training division. Under these arrangements, students will receive theoretical training during the college term and will spend three and a half months in the summer doing practical work together with the cadets from Royal Roads and Royal Military College. At the completion of their university courses, in addition to their degree, they will have had additional theoretical military work and the equivalent of a year's practical training with their service. Similar arrangements are in effect for the air force.
Under all these plans, the pay received during the summer months will make a substantial contribution towards the cost of tuition and other expenses during the college term.
The third source of officer material is in promotion from the ranks. It is hoped that as many as twenty per cent of officers will be selected in this way. Officer cadets from the ranks will attend either one of the Canada service colleges or the universities at government expense.
These arrangements for officer training are in addition to service schools for training in the use of weapons and trades schools in all three services. A number of schools are of an inter-service nature, such as the joint army-air school at Rivers, where all aspects of army-air force co-operation are studied, or the winter warfare school at Churchill, where all three services and the defence research board are studying techniques of winter warfare. There are as well army and air staff colleges, and the national defence college for senior officers and civilian officials opened at Kingston on the 5th January last.
Further, all three services have specialist officers undergoing post-graduate training at universities in Canada.
Another educational scheme of importance is the institution of language training. The army is putting into effect French classes in every command and training centre. At headquarters 178 officers are taking voluntary courses in French. Provision is also made for training in languages other than French. The navy and air force will soon implement similar plans.

Modern war requires technical abilities of the highest order. Should an emergency arise, the outcome may well turn on the professional skills and qualities of leadership of the staffs and fighting formations of every branch of every service. For this reason we are trying to ensure that the Canadian defence forces will be led by men who will live up to the fighting reputation of Canadians and who will also have the intelligence and knowledge to develop and use the weapons and skills that may be necessary for the effective defence of our country.


Mr. PEARKES:: Mr. Speaker, if I may be permitted a question, on completion of the courses at Royal Roads and the Royal Military College or subsequent training at a university, will there be any obligation on the student to join one of the active forces of the crown?


Brooke Claxton: The cadets will be obligated to join either the active forces or the reserve forces.


George Randolph Pearkes: Not the active? FOREIGN EXCHANGE CONSERVATION



TABLING OF CORRESPONDENCE RESPECTING MOTOR VEHICLE MANUFACTURING INDUSTRY

Right Hon. C. D. HOWE (Minister of Trade and Commerce):: Mr. Speaker, I desire to table, as requested last night, a letter addressed to the Minister of Finance containing the advice of my department as to regulations applying to the motor vehicle manufacturing and parts industry. I may say that the Minister of Finance has placed these regulations in effect. Copies will be available to hon. members for purposes of the debate later this afternoon.



UNITED NATIONS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. M. J. COLDWELL (Rosetown-Biggar):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs. In view of the grave warning made by the Palestine commission to the security council yesterday that "a tragic and dangerous precedent" will be established if force or the threat of force is allowed to thwart the decision of the united nations, is the government prepared to accept its share of responsibility in such action as may be taken by the security council with a view to averting further bloodshed in Palestine and implementing the assembly decision?

Inquiries oj the Ministry
Right Hon. L. 8. ST. LAURENT (Secretary of State for External Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I listened with care to the question the hon. member has just put, because it was not quite in the terms of the notice I was handed just before I came into the house. In answer I can only state that Canada accepted full responsibility under the charter of the united nations and has at all times been pressing to have all the organs of the united nations set up in accordance with the charter and in such a manner as to make the charter fully effective. There is no intention of not complying with the requirements both of the letter and of the spirit of the charter.



LABOUR CONDITIONS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. HUMPHREY MITCHELL (Minister of Labour):: Mr. Speaker, yesterday the leader of the opposition (Mr. Bracken) asked me to give details of the movement of residents of Nova Scotia to work elsewhere in Canada.
A group movement plan was authorized in January 1947, but most of the new placements were in the autumn months of that year. The total, men and women, was 2.642, of which 2,354 were men. Of these, 1,627 were transferred from Sydney, 341 from New Glasgow, 183 from Halifax, 175 from Amherst, 16 from Yarmouth, 6 from Bridgewater and 6 from Liverpool.
Through the national employment service, 254 went to gold and base metal mines in northern Ontario, 211 to a nickel refinery, 761 to farm implement plants; and the remainder were absorbed by foundries, paper mills, textile mills, other manufacturing and construction.
Of the 288 women and girls transferred, 257 came from Sydney, 27 from New Glasgow -and 4 from Amherst. They found work in shoe, textile, rubber, and food processing plants. Under this plan transportation and medical examination costs were paid by the federal government.
In addition, jobs were found for residents of the maritimes individually. It is estimated 1,200 men and women were thus referred to vacancies offered by employers elsewhere during 1947.
There were other organized movements, largely confined to the east, with transportation paid by employers and workers.
In the potato picking season, 600 New Brunswick residents were found jobs in Maine and 700 Nova Scotians were found jobs in
Prince Edward Island. For apple picking, 1,500 Nova Scotians were registered and found jobs in the Annapolis valley; 200 New Brunswick residents were transferred to pea vining operations in Maine. More than 400 woods workers were transferred from New Brunswick to Maine. This is a total of more than 3,400.


Mr. BRACKEN:: Does the statement make clear what period of time these figures cover?


Humphrey Mitchell: I said that, I think, Mr. Speaker. While the policy was approved1 early in the year, it was in the latter part of the year that the movement got under way.


John Bracken: These figures apply to the latter part of the year?


Humphrey Mitchell: Yes, of 1947.



HOUSING


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. E. D. FULTON (Kamloops):: 
Clarence Decatur Howe: Mr. Speaker, the matter has not been brought to my attention. I shall make inquiries and endeavour to give my hon, friendi an answer tomorrow.



WAR SAVINGS CERTIFICATES


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. G. K. FRASER (Peterborough West):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Finance. Owing to the fact that it takes from two' weeks to two months from the time a war savings certificate is handed into a chartered bank for collection before the proceeds are forwarded to the bank from the Bank of Canada, will the minister check with the officials of the Bank of Canada to see if the handling and clearance of these
Inquiries of the Ministry

certificates can be speeded up so that the holders can get their money promptly without loss of interest?


James Horace King: The hon. member for
Mackenzie.


Mr. GRAYDON:: Isn't that a question, Mr. Speaker?


Mr. ABBOTT:: It was a statement, I think.


Gordon Graydon: A question, I think.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Why should it take a month or two for a certificate to be cashed at the bank?
Hon. DOUGLAS ABBOTT I Minister of Finance): I shall look into the representations.


Gordon Graydon: Apparently the minister is going to take as long to answer as the banks take to cash them.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Has this no priority?



FLAXSEED


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. A. M. NICHOLSON (Mackenzie):: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Trade and Commerce. Is the minister in a position to outline government policy in connection with the handling of flax seed for 1948-49? If not, how soon can a statement be made?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I am not in a position to add to the statement which I made in the house on February 12. As indicated at that time, an announcement with respect to the handling and marketing arrangements for flax covering the crop year 1948-49 will be made at the earliest possible day.



HUMAN RIGHTS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Right Hon. J. L. ILSLEY (Minister of Justice):: Mr. Speaker, yesterday the hon.
member for Lake Centre asked me to table the remainder of the correspondence with attorneys general and deans of law schools regarding the power of this parliament to enact a national bill of rights. I am today tabling all the correspondence that has not been already tabled.



EXPORT-IMPORT BANK REQUEST FOR TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF $300,000,000 LOAN

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. T. L. CHURCH (Broadview):: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Finance. Is he yet in a position to inform the house of the exact terms and conditions of the $300 million loan on the Export-Import bank, or a private loan, if any?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Mr. Speaker, that statement has already been made. The information is available.


Thomas Langton Church: He that goes a-borrowing goes a-sorrowing.



VETERANS AFFAIRS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. MILTON F. GREGG (Minister of Veterans Affairs): May I refer to a question asked yesterday by the hon. member for Nanaimo (Mr. Pearkes). As the minister responsible, and after a study of the background before my time, I have felt it important to get from technical advisers up to date information regarding several aspects of the Braefoot project, and as I said in the house yesterday, the work on that is now going on.


[Stage Direction]
The house resumed from Monday, February 16, consideration in committee of Bill No. 3, respecting emergency measures for the conservation of Canadian foreign exchange resources -Mr. Abbott-Mr. Macdonald (Brantford City) in the chair.
On section 3-Goods not permitted import.
Gordon Knapman Fraser: I should like to ask a question with respect to paragraph (c) of subsection 2 of section 3. Under this section, a Canadian who had visited the United1 States before November 18, 1947, is permitted to bring in under the $100 clause prohibited goods.


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is correct.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Has the Department of Finance or the Department of National Revenue done anything to acquaint Canadians who are visiting the United States with this bill, showing them what articles they

Foreign Exchange Conservation
are not permitted to bring into Canada on their return? If that has not been done I suggest that when a Canadian leaves Canada he be handed a slip showing what articles are prohibited. There has been a great deal of confusion.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am told that that information is given to persons leaving Canada when they arrange for their form H at the bank. Of course that does not affect people who were in the United States when the regulations came into force; but I am told that when a person makes arrangements at the bank to obtain his form H steps are taken to provide him with information as to what is on the prohibited list.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Are they given a list or a form showing what these articles are? I doubt it.


Douglas Charles Abbott: No. I am told they are not given a slip. They are told, really, not to buy anything to bring back. If you look over the prohibited list you will see that pretty nearly everything that a tourist may bring back with him is on the prohibited list.


Mr. SMITH (Calgary West):: Cabbages, turnips?


Douglas Charles Abbott: It also applies to the quota list; it is pretty comprehensive.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: It covers a wide range.


Douglas Charles Abbott: It covers the waterfront.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: From coast to coast. I think Canadians should be given some guide.


Douglas Charles Abbott: The guide is this. There is practically nothing that a tourist can purchase down there and bring back which is not either on the prohibited list or the quota list; which means there is very little he can bring back with him in. his suitcase.


Thomas John Bentley: He may bring back a
scuttleful of coal.


Douglas Charles Abbott: It has been suggested that he may bring back a scuttleful of coal.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: He can bring back luxury goods.


Douglas Charles Abbott: No.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: If you check over the list you will find that there are a few.


Douglas Charles Abbott: There may be a few, yes, but a very few.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: I still claim that they should be given a list of what we have before us here.


Arthur Leroy Smith: Last evening the Minister of Trade and Commerce promised, according to page 1255 of Hansard, the figures with respect to motorcar imports and exports, upon which he based his statement which appears at page 1165 of Hansard.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I am sorry to say that I have not the figures at the moment. I have just sent for them and I think I shall have them in ten minutes.


Arthur Leroy Smith: Thank you. While I have the floor I should like to ask the Minister of Finance a question. I have received a number of communications. When I was at home I saw a considerable number of people who are interested in two things in the vegetable line. I have in mind the statement made by some responsible minister that in the regulations, prohibitions and quotas, health was one of the primary things in mind and was being looked after. One of the complaints that I received was that fresh vegetables, tomatoes, celery, lettuce and so on were required by persons suffering from high blood pressure. I made some inquiries on my own recently with respect to that, and the information I got did not confirm the statements that were made to me, but I am very far from being an authority. Certainly these people believed that fresh green vegetables were necessary for their health. The other complaint I received was in respect of diabetics. I have made no inquiries on that, but I have had at least half a dozen letters and a number of calls from persons suffering from diabetes who claim that their physicians have informed them that these things are absolutely necessary to those who are so suffering. Perhaps the minister of health might be interested in the matter, and I am calling it to the attention of the Minister of Finance in case they have not been specifically considered and suggesting that that might be done, and an answer given. Perhaps if he could find out from some authority that these things are not necessary it would at least put at rest the minds of many people who now think that they are not only inconvenienced but are actually suffering because they have not been able to get these articles.


Douglas Charles Abbott: One or two special permits have been given on medical grounds, but I will look into the points raised by my hon. friend to see whether it might be desirable to issue a general statement.


Arthur Leroy Smith: I do not want clause 3 to carry without getting the figures the minister promised with respect to motorcar imports and exports.

Foreign Exchange Conservation


Douglas Charles Abbott: Those figures could be given on 5 (c), which deals with regulations governing the issue of permits.


Arthur Leroy Smith: That might be tonight or tomorrow or the next day. You may infer from my voice that I am anxious to get away from here as quickly as possible. May I give you the figures I have. On page 1164 of Hansard the Minister of Reconstruction and Supply made this statement:
Mr. Chairman, all I can say is that it may surprise my hon. friend to know that the Canadian automobile industry is not a drain on balance-that is the industry manufacturing is not. It does not constitute a drain on American funds. Value of exports is in excess of value of imports.
That is the statement I have in mind. The figures I get from the bureau of statistics covering the months of October, November and December of 1947, leaving out hundreds of thousands and such smaller sums as we over here can understand, and dealing only with millions, of which I have very little understanding, show that the total imports of automobiles, trucks and parts are $46,000,000- it is really $47,000,000, but I am using round figures-while the exports during that same period were $18,000,000, still using the lower and round figure, leaving a difference of at least $28,000,000. These figures come from the bureani of statistics and they are the figures the hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario had in mind. If they are correct, and I assume they are, then it does seem to me that the minister's statement on page 1165, that "value of exports is in excess of value of imports" needs a bit more consideration, and perhaps a withdrawal of the statement he made then.


Clarence Decatur Howe: My hon. friend has taken all imports of motor vehicles^ not limited to the companies who are manufacturing in Canada. In that event, certainly the import of motor vehicles not manufactured in Canada constitutes a drain. I was referring to branch plants actually manufacturing in Canada. The significant factor there is the American content of the import and the value of the export, and I hope to be able to give full details accordingly. The reason I have not the information is that my officers are preparing complete details. Certain figures were available at my office this morning. I have asked for additional information and perhaps my hon. friend will withhold judgment until my figures are available.


Arthur Leroy Smith: I will do so, but on this one point it is difficult to withhold judgment, that is, that the value of exports is in excess of the value of imports. The

minister will admit that he is quite wrong. I do not see why we do not often admit that we are wrong. The same minister did so last year when he admitted that he was wrong about a certain airway company, and I am giving this as general advice to the House of Commons. We cannot prove that we have always been right since 1867, and a few frank confessions might be good not only for our souls but for our business. In this case it would be helpful if the minister would admit that he was wrong in the statement and let it go at that.


Clarence Decatur Howe: It would be wonderful if people who would like to debate these questions were in the house when previous debates took place. Had the hon. member been in the house he would know that I was speaking about the manufacturing industry, and my remarks pertained only to that. If he had finished reading the sentence of which he quoted a part, he would find it set out in that statement. Perhaps he will withdraw the remarks he has made in the last few minutes about someone being wrong.


Arthur Leroy Smith: Let me
straighten the minister out on that. On the previous occasion I was sitting in the house in exactly the place I am in now, and he will observe that my name appears in Hansard both before and after the report of the statement he made which I have quoted. I really was not attempting to be at all critical of the minister. In fact I flatter him, for he is the only member I have known, sitting in the treasury benches, or anywhere else, who has ever admitted being wrong since the House of Commons was formed.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I am getting old enough to be fussy about who gives me a dressing down. I am very particular now about who gives me a dressing down, and I do not appreciate your remarks at all. They are usually funny but they are not funny now.


Arthur Leroy Smith: I am sorry to hear the minister say that, but I remember a very old remedy I heard of when I was a boy-my mother told me about it-and that was that when you are chafing in a particular spot a little bit of wet baking soda is good for that feeling.


Mr. MILLER:: This question may have been asked of the minister before, but my recollection of his remarks in the pre-Christmas sitting is to the effect that they could not take into consultation various industries, for fear that they would disclose their hand, not with respect to this, but as

Foreign Exchange Conservation
regards the imposition of the 25 per cent tax. I was wondering if the minister, before putting these tariff items in schedule I, had caused full inquiries to be made to see whether ther^ was some source, either in Canada or somewhere else apart from the hard currency countries, where these articles could be secured. I am thinking particularly of flashlights. I doubt if there are enough flashlights or flashlight batteries available in Canada to begin to supply the Canadian market. If that is so, it seems to me we would all have to admit that flashlights and flashlight batteries are more than a luxury now, being rather an essential. I mention this only to ask, first of all, whether consideration has been given to an alternative source of such supplies. If consideration has been given and there is no alternative source, would the minister consider taking that item from schedule I and putting it in schedule II?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Replying to the general question which my hon. friend has put, as to whether consultation was had with outside interests to find out what should be included in the prohibited list and what should not, the answer is no, for reasons which all members of the committee will appreciate. Advance discussion was not possible. In selecting the articles which were to be included in schedule I, the prohibited list, or schedule II, the quota list, exhaustive study was given to trade statistics and production statistics in Canada, import records, and all that sort of thing, by an inter-departmental committee headed by Mr. Taylor, to which I referred a few days ago. Speaking generally, where things on the prohibited list are in the category of necessities or desirable items, they would not be put there unless it was felt that the source of supply in Canada was reasonably adequate. I think that would apply to flashlights, which were mentioned by the hon. member for Portage la Prairie. I think there is fairly adequate production of flashlights in Canada. I am speaking from memory in discussing the schedules generally, but that was the general practice which was followed in preparing that list. Since the list was announced we have had, of course, a great' many representations from persons in the trade and from consumers. Those representations have been carefully considered and as a result a certain number of changes have been made. For instance, a number of things have been moved from the prohibited list into the quota list; a few have been added to the prohibited' list, but not many.


Calvert Charlton Miller: If it is disclosed later that there is no available supply of flashlights or
flashlight batteries, I presume that under the powers which have been taken they would be moved to the other schedule?


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is right. Power is being taken in the bill to relax these restrictions, but not to make them more onerous. The government is not asking for any power in the bill to add to the list of prohibitions, but it is asking for power to move articles from the prohibited list into the quota list or to take them out of the restricted list.


Mr. HACKETT:: Will the minister state if the money derived from the sale of Canadian-made automobiles to other countries is in United States dollars or their equivalent in pounds sterling?


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is the case today. Canadian motorcars exported to South America or these other markets will be for sale in either United States dollars or convertible currency.


John Thomas Hackett: Have we sold any substantial number of automobiles to hard currency countries? I thought our sales were largely restricted to sterling areas.


Douglas Charles Abbott: My colleague the Minister of Trade and Commerce will know better than I do about that. But of course a number of sterling area countries in these days are required to pay for certain imports in convertible exchange; and although automobiles might be going in, let us say, to Malaya, Uruguay, or some other South American country, the payment would have to be made in convertible exchange.


John Thomas Hackett: But the result of that requirement is that the trade has ceased to be as fruitful and abundant as it was in the past; is that not so?


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is hard to say. I am told that the export demand is still substantial, curious as it rpay seem.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Have any other commodities been traded for which sterling or soft currency areas are required to pay us in dollars or convertible currency?


Douglas Charles Abbott: My hon. friend is probably as familiar as I am with the basis on which accounts are now settled between sterling area countries and Canada. The United Kingdom holds the reserves for sterling area countries. If a product is sold, let us say, to Australia, New Zealand, Egypt, India or any other country whose currency is sterling, settlement must be made for that sale unless credit terms are arranged. Over the past couple of years a substantial portion of the deficit of the sterling

Foreign Exchange Conservation
area countries has been financed out of the Canadian credit, and that credit is still operating during January, February and March.
But the deficit has always been taken care of out of either gold or convertible exchange. It is the net deficit. That was true last year and it is true now. The importing country, if it is in the sterling area, must decide how much it can afford to import from hard-currency countries. It will take into account its reserves of gold or other hard currencies, the extent to which it will be able to export goods, and so on.


Edmund Davie Fulton: I was under the impression that it was a Canadian requirement that payment for automobiles must be in dollars or convertible currency. Am I wrong there? Is it the United Kingdom which decides, or is it the individual country which decides?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Obviously the Canadian
exporter cannot use sterling to pay his wages. If he makes his contracts with a sterling area country, he must be assured that he can be paid in something he can use to pay his wages. It is up to him.


John Thomas Hackett: I ask this question of the Minister of Finance, although it is not his statement. If he is not prepared to answer it I shall understand and shall wait for an opportunity to ask the question of the Minister of Trade and Commerce.


Douglas Charles Abbott: The Minister of Trade and Commerce is here.


John Thomas Hackett: Then I will ask the question of him. He stated, speaking of automobiles manufactured in Canada, that the value of exports is in excess of the value of imports.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Of the three companies manufacturing in Canada.


John Thomas Hackett: My question is whether the minister is talking ip terms of United States dollars.


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is right.


John Thomas Hackett: I can readily understand that the value of exports in pounds exceeds the value of imports in dollars, but not being convertible they do not help us much. That would not help us much out of present difficulties.


Clarence Decatur Howe: We sell nothing for inconvertible currency. Anything that we sell to sterling countries is for convertible currency. It is true that we make a loan to these countries, but that does not alter the fact that whatever we sell to a British country is sold for convertible currency.


John Thomas Hackett: I understand that that is the rule which the right hon. gentleman is applying at the present time. What I was endeavouring to ascertain is the accuracy of the statement that the value of exports is in excess of the value of imports. That may be what he hopes will come about when the policy he is applying has come into effect. But I accept with some doubt the accuracy of that statement if the United States dollar is to be the basis. I doubt the accuracy of it as to the past; and as to the future, we do not know because there is no experience on which to base a reply.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I can answer that if I may, because it is a semi-financial question. We have been paid1 for everything we have exported to any country, whether it is a sterling area country or otherwise, except to the extent that the exports have been financed out of credits, except to the extent that the trading deficit of these countries has been taken care of out of credits which have been extended' to them under the Export Credits Insurance Act or otherwise. That has been the situation up to the present time. What the situation will be when credits are no longer available and convertible exchange has to be paid for exports, of course, no one can foresee. That is the situation today.


John Thomas Hackett: But what is the basis for the statement?


Douglas Charles Abbott: It is an accurate statement up to the present time.


John Thomas Hackett: Is there anything of
record which will justify the statement that the value of exports is in excess of the value of imports in United States dollars?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Well, Mr. Chairman, I hope to give detailed figures just as soon as I can get them. I am waiting for them. They were promised to me by 3.30; it is now 3.50, and I hope to have them shortly.


Mr. STEPHENSON:: Owing to the restriction on the importation of cars wholly manufactured in the United States by companies having no branch factories in Canada many dealers will find that they can bring in only about one car for every seven they brought in during the basic period. That will have a serious effect on a great many dealers who have these agencies throughout Canada. Has the minister made any survey to ascertain how many of these dealers in Canada will be affected, and what their position will be? Will it put them out of business, and is any consideration being given dealers who have these agencies?

Foreign Exchange Conservation


Clarence Decatur Howe: Usually if an agent loses one line he takes on another. I cannot say what the effect will be, but I do not think you can make omelettes without cracking the eggs.


Charles Elwood Stephenson: I know, and the effect is that it practically cuts off the dealers. I have been in the automobile business, and I know that in practically every town and city these popular car agencies have been allotted already, so it will not be possible for these dealers to pick up another agency. To my way of thinking these people are going to suffer, and I was wondering if the minister made any survey as to the effect it will have on them.


Mr. MacNICOL:: I would like to ask a question in reference to bringing fruit into the country. A short time ago I was in the city of Windsor, where I met a gentleman, whom I knew well, who had just come from the customs house. He had been on a trip in Michigan and had purchased a dozen oranges. By the time he reached Windsor he had eaten nine and still had three in a bag on the back seat. He did not think for a moment he would be charged duty on the three oranges, but the customs officials told him he would have to pay duty.


Douglas Charles Abbott: He should not have let them in at all.
Mr. MacNICbL: My friend just picked up the bag with the three oranges and threw it in the river. Later the same day I was talking to a newspaper man, and he said it was simply amazing what was going on at the customs house. I am sure neither of the ministers wants that kind of thing to happen. What instructions, if any, are sent out to the customs people at the border in regard to bothering people in this way?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Those of course are the unfortunate incidents which I suppose cannot be helped. They can only be mitigated by customs officers exercising as much tact and courtesy as possible. The situation is that oranges are on a quota. A great many other things are prohibited. No visitor returning from the United States may bring in anything which is on the prohibited list or on the quota list. If an article is on the prohibited list no one is allowed to bring it in. If it is on the quota list the only persons allowed to import it are the holders of quotas. So unfortunately if a person goes to the United States and buys two or three heads of lettuce, as happened when I was coming up from New York a couple of weeks ago, or oranges as mentioned by my hon. friend, unless the customs officer
wants to look the other way he has to enforce the law and say, "I am sorry, but those are on the prohibited list and you will have to give them to some friend before you cross the line. You cannot bring them in." That is one of the unfortunate necessities of this unfortunate law; but it is very difficult. It would not be reasonable to give the thousands of customs officers across the country power to exercise discretion, to allow one man to bring in a prohibited article and refuse to allow another to do so. So their instructions are that if the article is on the prohibited or quota list it cannot be brought in by a person returning from the United States. That is one of the unfortunate features, but we have not been able to think of any way of avoiding it.


John Ritchie MacNicol: The last time I was home I had occasion to visit a hospital to see a friend of mine who was seriously ill. His beard required shaving, and the nurse said to me, "I cannot shave him with these so-called safety razors." I replied, ''Why don't you use an electric razor?" She said, "Well, we cannot buy them." I see that electric razors are on the prohibited list. I do not know whether they are made in Canada, but if they are they should be available.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am told they are made in Canada.


John Ritchie MacNicol: Anyway, I thought that was pretty tough on the nurses who have to shave their patients as well as look after them otherwise.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I wonder how these people got shaved before the electric razor was invented. I suppose they had to let their beards grow.


John Ritchie MacNicol: The minister might indicate also what instructions have been given in reference to bringing in fresh fruit and vegetables. Certainly vegetables do not grow here in winter, except in the greenhouses, and they are required in hospitals and people like to have them in their homes. Considering the small amount of duty that would be saved on carrots and vegetables of that kind, and the great deal of good they do the people who eat them, it seems to me a big mistake was made in prohibiting the importation of fresh fruits and vegetables.


Douglas Charles Abbott: As far as fruit is concerned, citrus fruits are under quota; and due to lower prices prevailing in the United States this year than last, since it is a dollar quota, I believe the quantity of oranges and grapefruit imported is just as great as it was last

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year, and the price compares very favourably. Of course they can also be imported from the sterling area. There is no shortage of citrus fruits this winter, and the prices are pretty good. On the question of fresh fruits and vegetables, I announced when the policy was brought in that if shortages developed, adequate supplies would be made available of the four basic vegetables, potatoes, onions, carrots and cabbages. My hon. friend is a bit older than I. I am sure if he casts his mind back he will realize that this diet of imported fresh fruits and vegetables in the winter is something of comparatively recent growth in Canada. Fifteen or twenty years ago we did not bring in fresh fruits or vegetables in the winter, from the United States or anywhere else.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: We grew our own.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Not in the winter time. We put them down in the root cellar, but we did not grow any fresh lettuce in the winter time, or any of the other things that have been mentioned. When I was a boy I never saw a bit of fresh lettuce or any other fresh vegetable or fruit from fall until spring-the hon. member for Stanstead nods his head- and the health of the country did not suffer in those days. Our mothers used to put up all the vegetables, peas, beans, tomatoes and so on, and they were just as nutritious as these colourless things that are brought in from Mexico or somewhere else. I have had occasion to say this before but I make it now as an assertion, and I am pretty sure it is true: that the health of a single individual in Canada will not suffer because we are not bringing in S3,000,000 worth of American lettuce this winter, or some of these other pleasant, desirable but expensive things which are not essential for health purposes. When you do not have the money you have to go without some things, and that is the position we are in today quoad the United States. I will say, too, that a great many rural areas in Canada today never see a bit of fresh lettuce in the winter time, or any other fresh vegetables. They are restricted to the larger centres, where the wholesale fruit and vegetable trade can readily distribute these delicacies. But it is not general throughout Canada during the winter.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Lettuce in the House of Commons restaurant today at 30 cents a head!


Clarence Decatur Howe: There seems to be some urgency with respect to the data on imports and exports of motor vehicles. X now have *before me a statement from Mr. J. H. Berry, who is in charge of the capital goods pro-

gram. It states that the three major Canadian manufacturers of passenger cars and light trucks have advised him of certain figures covering their operations in Canada during the twelve months ending October 31, 1947. The statement goes on to say:
The figures giving the value of exports are the invoice value of goods exported by -them.
1. Vehicles produced in Canada for
domestic sale	 169,093
2.	Vehicles produced in Canada for
export	 71,969
3.	Total production		 241,062
4.	Cost of imported productive and
service material	and	accessories $74,059,9865.	Invoice value of	exports	
$79,618,398
This shows a balance in favour of exports of about 85,500,000.


John Thomas Hackett: I have listened attentively to what the minister has said, but I do not think he has given an answer to the query I addressed to him. Were those exports paid for in American dollars? That is what we are trying to ascertain)-whether or not the automotive business is a drain on our American dollars. The minister has just said that we have paid over $74,000,000 in U.S. dollars for parts imported from the United States, and that we have sold motor vehicles to the value of $79,000,000. Were we paid in United States funds?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I shall have to answer that, and I shall- give the same answer I gave before. We were paid for everything we exported from this country last year, except to the extent that those exports were financed out of the British credit, or the credits which were extended under the Export Credits Insurance Act. Balances over and above the credits were settled in a convertible currency.


John Thomas Hackett: Then, that means that to the extent of the credit we advanced we lost *US. dollars on the transaction?


Douglas Charles Abbott: You may say that the credit was used to pay for wheat, and they used the cash to pay for automobiles. You may take your choice. But there were substantial cash payments received by this country in addition to credits which were extended.


John Thomas Hackett: All I am trying to
establish is the accuracy of the statement made by the Minister of Trade and Commerce. I fear that my challenge must stand, because it has not been established that the answer given was an accurate one.

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Mr. WRIGHT:: I notice that under tariff item 415a in schedule I there is reference to refrigerators, andl I would understand from the item that the importation of refrigerators into Canada is entirely stopped. There is one type of refrigerator, an oil-burning variety, which is not made in Canada. It is used extensively in the rural areas. Possibly seventy per cent of the people in rural areas have no electricity available to them on their farms, and this is the only type of refrigerator suitable for their purposes. What consideration has been given to the importation of this type of refrigerator? What were the importations last year; and will the minister give us any other information he may have on the subject?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am afraid it would1 not be possible to give my hon. friend figures as to the importations of that particular refrigerator, because it comes in under the general tariff item relating to refrigerators. The statistics would not be broken down between that type of refrigerator known, I believe, as the Servel, and other types, so those figures could not be made available. I can say, however, that consideration was given to the factors referred to by the hon. member for Melfort. It was felt that the importation of refrigerators as such constituted such an important item that they would have to be prohibited. It was felt, further, that exception could not very well be made in respect of one type of refrigerator. That may result, of course, in that- particular type of machine being produced1 here in Canada; I cannot say as to that.


Percy Ellis Wright: Is there any indication that it is likely to be produced here, or is there any other source available in soft currency countries? If there is not, then it seems to me there is discrimination against a certain group in our community. That is particularly true when we realize that the people in Canada who have electricity available to them can still purchase refrigerators, but those who have not electricity simply cannot obtain them.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I think the situation is somewhat the same as that referred to the other day by the hon. member for Swift Current in regard to propane stoves manufactured in the United States. We are looking into these matters continually, and where it is possible to make relaxations it will be done. Hon. members will understand, however, that it would not be possible to have absolute equality right across the board'. There are bound' to be situations such as the hon. member has indicated, where there would appear to be some temporary discrimination. But, as I say, in the old1 days, in the country, even kerosene refrigerators were not available.


Percy Ellis Wright: That is true, they were not available, and it is only within recent years that this particular type of refrigerator has become available in rural areas. Under section 4 the minister is given discretion in cases of exceptional hardship to make certain concessions. It seems to me this is a genuine case which he might well consider. I do not think the amount involved would be very great so far as American currency is concerned. Unless the minister has some assurance respecting the establishment of branch plants in Canada, I suggest he give this matter further consideration.


Mr. POULIOT:: Mr. Chairman, in these times of so-called austerity I am in full sympathy with the Minister of Finance, although I cannot say I am in full agreement with him. The other day one hon. member, speaking about trade, said that our trade with the United States was not as important as that with the United Kingdom and the rest of the empire. He did not make the necessary distinction. The distinction should be made between real and fictitious trade. Whether it be larger or smaller than our trade with the British commonwealth, the fact is that our trade with the United States is real trade, because the goods are sold and paid for on both sides of the border. Trade with the rest of the world is fictitious. At the present time we are living in the clouds, and the trade with the rest of the world is not at all real. Why? Precisely because of that obstacle known as the American dollar. The American dollar has become the obstacle to our trade with Americans. Surely that is incredible. The American government has been hoarding gold for a long time at Fort Knox so that it may have supremacy in trade over the whole world. It has been their avarice which has caused our difficulty and the difficulty of other countries.
The other day I made a suggestion which I believe, was quite in order; it was that we substitute barter for our present fantastic and imaginary trading processes. That would be an experience; any policy adopted for a short time is an experience. Here we are entering upon an experience in trade, and Canada has become a verboten country, as Germany was at the time of Hitler. You cannot go across the border; it is forbidden. You cannot take in any money; it is forbidden on account of our shortage of United States dollars. If
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you want a cheap refrigerator or washing machine you cannot buy it. You have to pay a tax of 25 per cent more because we have not enough reserves of United States dollars. I mention that because for a long time I have advocated sound trade policies, and I was considered unpatriotic to do that.
I find that the whole set-up of the Department of Finance is wrong. The question should not 'be to amend1 the Foreign Exchange Control Act but to get rid of it altogether. Some hon. member advocated that either yesterday or the day before when I was not in the house, but I read it in Hansard. He said that we should dispense with the Foreign Exchange Control Act. We can say a lot about imports and exports. Our import trade is an honest trade, just the same as our export trade. It affords a living to a large number of people who import goods from other countries and sell them here. But now they are precluded from doing that, precisely because we have spent too much during the war-


The CHAIRMAN:: Order. The committee is considering clause 3 which deals with goods not permitted import. The hon. member is dealing in his remarks with the general principle of the bill. I would ask him to confine his remarks more directly to the clause under consideration.


Jean-François Pouliot: Mr. Chairman, I am not speaking of the principle of the bill. I am speaking only of this clause, the title of which is "import control" and the marginal note, "Goods not permitted import". My view is that we should1 dispense with this clause, dispense with the whole bill, and dispense with the foreign exchange control board.


William Ross Macdonald: That is the point I raised with the hon. member. On second reading the house adapted the principle of the bill; therefore it is not in order to discuss the principle at this time. The principle has been accepted, and now we are dealing with the details of the bill, at the moment with the details of clause 3.


Jean-François Pouliot: I certainly do not wish to dispute with the Chair. I have too much respect for the Chair and for you personally, ' sir, to indulge in that kind of thing. But here we have clause 3, the first paragraph of which reads:
No person shall import or attempt to import into Canada any goods listed or of the classes described in schedules I II or III except in accordance with a permit issued by the minister, and, subject to this act and the regulations, the minister may issue, vary, or revoke permits for the import of such goods.

I do not object at all to the present minister exercising these powers, because I believe in his fairness and I believe he is a great Liberal. That is why I am in full sympathy with him. I realize that at times it must be pretty hard for him to defend a measure like this. But he has my entire confidence, and it is just because I want to help him that I warn him of the danger in this kind of legislation. You know very well, sir, that without speaking on the principle of the bill I can warn the committee of the danger that exists in the main clause of the bill, and if this is the main clause it is hard to make a distinction between the principle of the bill and what is contained in this clause.
What I am saying has nothing whatever to do personally with the minister or the staff of the foreign exchange control board. But I find it is bad. The best tradesman cannot expect to do a fine piece of work with a bad tool. The foreign exchange control board is a bad tool, and no one has realized yet that it is that body which keeps the whole reserve of gold and securities belonging to the Dominion of Canada. They are the ones who Jiave all the guarantees that we can give for the Canadian dollar. It is not the Bank of Canada that prints the notes; it is the foreign exchange control board that holds the fortune of the country, and that organization is not able now to meet our international financial obligations to the rest of the world. What is wrong with it? It is precisely because of the unwise management of the foreign exchange control board that that institution is unable now to render the same services that were rendered by the minister and the Department of Finance before the Bank of Canada and the foreign exchange control board were established. That is why we cannot import. There are many items in which we have no more freedom of trade. It is just as simple as spring water. This is what I object to.
How is it that if I want to buy a washing machine in the United States I have to pay from $150 to $175 for that same machine in Canada? It is because of taxation that I am compelled to pay on the supposed Canadian-made or Canadian-adjusted machine to cover our deficiency of United States dollars. It is not a complicated matter. Those who tell you this whole matter is complicated are those who will pose as experts afterwards and tell us that this subject is so very difficult that no one can understand it. Let us get down to fundamentals. Let us realize that Providence has made different climates in different countries so that the goods of those countries will be different and so that there will be an inter-

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national exchange of goods, so that there will be an inducement for men to deal together in fraternity and co-operate together. When I see obstacles made by man to prevent other men from getting what they want legitimately I am opposed to that, and I am opposed to it because I am a Liberal, and there must be a change made soon in that organization.
It is not a question of discussing the principle of the bill. It is impossible to speak on this matter without mentioning the things I have already mentioned. Of course, I am open to conviction and if something is said that will satisfy my mind I will say: Well said; I agree. But so long as such explanation is not made to me my mind is not satisfied, sir, and I say that on behalf of all the Canadians who want this country to be a free country, who want this country to be at least a country where men can trade freely with their neighbours. And mark you, sir, how is it that I cannot buy any goods from the United States because of the United States dollar when I can get the same thing from the United Kingdom, from Belgium, from France, from The Netherlands because they are not on the same currency? We pay much more for what we buy from these countries than we would pay to the United States. We have to spend more money not to use United States dollars. It does not get into my head.
I may be dumb; I may not understand the intricacies of international finance and high finance, but I do not see why I should gain nothing, why I spend twice as much to get the same thing in Canadian dollars. I cannot understand it. It is beyond me, and it is beyond the average man. Nobody understands it except the wizards in the Department of Finance, and I congratulate the minister for not being one of them. There could be no greater compliment paid to him than that. I consider him a man who means well and who wants to make a success of his department; but I am very sorry to warn him that so long as he has the same wizards around him-and I do not particularly mention the good looking gentlemen who are in front of him now; I speak of the whole organization-he will have trouble. I said that when Bennett was in power, and the same men are there today. Some newcomers have been added to the staff; but it is the same men who run the show, who are considered essential and who cannot give a satisfactory explanation to anyone.


William Ross Macdonald: Order.


Jean-François Pouliot: Thank you, sir.


Mr. LENNARD:: Some time ago the hon. member for Davenport mentioned that three oranges were taken away from a traveller at a border point. In reply the minister said that the law was there and that the border officers had no discretion in the matter. Well, all I can say is that it is about time some discretion was given to them. I know of scores of cases-but I am not going to burden the committee with that sort of thing this afternoon-where the necessities of life have been taken away from people at border points. I am referring to travelling necessities. I know of one instance in which they went into a man's pocket and took away a few cigars. I do not say they are travelling necessities, but I know that travelling necessities have been taken away from people at the border. It is about time that some discretionary powers were given to these border officers and that they used a little more tact in the discharge of their duties.


Mr. HERRIDGE:: I rise to support the hon. member for Melfort with regard to the necessity for the importation of kerosene refrigerators for people in isolated districts. The minister in reply to the hon. member said we did not have kerosene refrigeration twenty-five years ago. In this connection I think the minister is giving insufficient consideration to the people who live in the rural districts and away from electrical power. The people on the farms are producing food, the miners at isolated points are producing very necessary minerals, and the woodsmen working in isolated camps are producing urgently required lumber. In my opinion these people should get every consideration. I want to remind the minister that twenty-five years ago we had few American films imported into this country but we have many today. I suggest if it is necessary to preserve foreign exchange then it would be better to keep out of the country some of the putrid films that are poisoning the minds of our young people and permit the import of kerosene refrigerators for people who are producing wealth for Canada.


Mr. CASE:: This afternoon the minister said that they seek to do business in convertible currencies. I believe that is the term.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Yes.


Wilfrid Garfield Case: My question is this. We have the Bank of Canada as a national institution. Is there any machinery provided by which we can convert sterling into Canadian dollars? In other words, would it not be good business to store up a surplus of sterling as a hedge
Foreign Exchange Conservation

against the day when the United States dollar slumps? We have put too much emphasis upon the United States dollar. Three-fifths of the business of the world was done in the sterling area in days gone by, and I have confidence that it will come back. Someone must be paid when he manufactures goods for export. May we not convert sterling into Canadian dollars? Are there any facilities whereby we can build up a surplus of sterling as well as United States dollars?


Douglas Charles Abbott: We have substantial quantities of sterling now. We have made loans of something over a billion dollars. We have a loan without interest which is still outstanding. The effect of accumulating sterling, which is what my hon. friend has referred to, is simply to advance additional credit to the United Kingdom. You do not have to accumulate sterling notes in order to advance credit. It is far simpler than that. A better way to do it is by an entry in the books, and that is exactly what we have under the British credit. The net effect of exchanging Canadian dollar. bills for sterling notes, to use the example given by my hon. friend, is simply to advance that much more of a loan to the United Kingdom. The Canadian producer has to be paid in Canadian dollars. If the British importer sends over a thousand pounds to pay for something he has imported, somebody has to provide four thousand Canadian dollars to pay the Canadian exporter. If that is done by the Canadian government it is a further loan of $4,000. That is all it amounts to.


Wilfrid Garfield Case: I understand that, but the United States dollar situation does not enter into that transaction. You are going to convert it to Canadian dollars as an additional credit to the sterling area. It does not have any relationship to the United States dollar there. That is correct?


Douglas Charles Abbott: The net effect is that for the time being you are lending the goods to whoever is importing them.


Wilfrid Garfield Case: It has no relationship to the United States dollar situation.


Douglas Charles Abbott: None whatever, except to the extent that it is something we could sell somewhere else for United States dollars.


Wilfrid Garfield Case: Is there any restriction on the importation of fuel oil?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Not under this, no.


Wilfrid Garfield Case: There is a scarcity of fuel oil.


Douglas Charles Abbott: We are anxious to get all the fuel oil we can. It is a vital item in our economy.
[Hr. Case.]


Alexander Malcolm Nicholson: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Trade and Commerce before the hon. member for Huron-Perth can give the bad news about the provincial by-election; I am sorry the hon. member for Huron-Perth has such bad news to bring back to the Minister of Trade and Commerce. I support the argument advanced by the hon. members for Melfort and Kootenay West. Is any consideration being given to the establishment of industries in Canada to produce kerosene refrigerators? A great many farmers have been using these refrigerators in recent years, and Canada was able to establish settlers all across the north country where we had refrigeration during the war. It seems a pity to discontinue the making available of this type of refrigeration to rural communities if by any means it can be continued. Is this one of the industries that may be started?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I have no information on the subject. I have not been, advised of anyone attempting to start that line of production, but I shall make further inquiries.


Alexander Malcolm Nicholson: During the war at Churchill, The Pas and at other outlying places across the north we were able to establish refrigeration for any people who came there. If the minister went at his present job as he went at the job of establishing air training schools with modern facilities, we would not have to discontinue the supplying of these essential commodities which are used by many people in frontier places.


Percy Ellis Wright: What is the position with regard to parts for servicing this equipment that is already in Canada? Are the parts still allowed to be imported?


Douglas Charles Abbott: They are allowed in. I would not want the committee to get the impression that I have no sympathy for conditions such as have been described, but the position is a difficult one. When you have to take a long list of imported articles and, select some which must be temporarily excluded, one cannot avoid what might perhaps be considered as discrimination. As I have said so often, however, this is not a permanent policy. Perhaps six months or a year from now it may be possible to relax somewhat, and that might be one of the first items that could be considered. But when you have a definite shortage of the means of paying for essential imports from the United States, you have to defer some of the less essential if you are to follow the principle set forth in this bill.

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Percy Ellis Wright: Has the minister any
information as to where this type of goods can be got? Is it available in soft currency
countries?	*


Douglas Charles Abbott: I will make inquiries.


Mr. TIMMINS:: The Minister of Trade and Commerce said something about the regulations which will be brought down with respect to the motorcar industry, and he has told us about the manner in which building construction will be handled by means of projects. I am speaking for the middle class of businessmen, who ought to know now how they will be able to carry on in the time to come. I am thinking of the engineering and machine work business of the country, which went ahead 100 or 200 per cent during the war. These industries are geared to handle as great a production as they did during the war, and unless they are able to carry on with steel and iron and all the other elements that enter into their work, there will be unemployment in these industries. Last evening the minister said, referring to projects:
If the project is of any considerable size the applicant appears before the officers of the department and gives them any explanations they require.
That, I submit, is predicating the conduct of business on Ottawa. It is bringing into business throughout Canada the Wellington street complex. In other words, everything is based on Ottawa, and I suggest that the man living in Halifax or in Vancouver and who is in business just as anyone else is ought to be able to know just how he is going to carry on. Is it the intention to arrange for teams of departmental officials to attend in these various centres with a set of regulations? If we do not know the regulations, someone must know them. How is business in Canada going to carry on in these various engineering projects? I know some firms that are engaged in the manufacture of meat-stringing machines and packaging machines. As business grows in this country, these machines will become more and more a part of the fabric of industry. If the minister does not give us the regulations, what guide will he give so that industry may know where it is going?


Clarence Decatur Howe: This is not the first time that question has been asked, but I can assert with some degree of knowledge that businessmen in this country do know where they are going, and if they do not know where they are going and care to ask a specific question, an answer will be furnished. They can get a prompt answer by writing in. I suggest that instead of the hon. member attempting to 5849-834
tell industry where it is going, he should let industry tell him. He will find that they know where they are going.


Mr. McKAY:: I support what the hon. member for Melfort has said in his opposition to the restrictions that have been placed against kerosene-burning refrigerators. I recognize, as most members do, that we have to conserve American dollars, but this particular restriction affects those who live in the country, who, as has been pointed out, are often a long distance from electripal energy. This is probably the only method of refrigeration they have, and I suggest that if further restrictions have to be applied on other things to make up the dollar shortage here, we might ban the importation of high-priced automobiles. We are making three models of cars in Canada, and that should be sufficient for the demands of the public in the period of so-called austerity. We ought to admit some of these refrigerators that rural people require.	,
I wish to ask a question, a partial answer to which I believe was given last night. Can the minister say just how long it will be before quotas on imports of component parts that go into the manufacture or the assembling of manufactured goods in Canada-I refer particularly to electrical appliances-will be announced? How soon will the minister be able to announce when these quotas will be set up? I know from conversations with certain industrial heads that they are inconvenienced and sometimes visibly worried over the fact that they do not know what the quotas will be and therefore cannot make-contracts with the dealers.
One further question I would ask in that, connection. Perhaps the minister cannot answer it now, though I wish he would give some sort of answer as a guide. Will the dollar allotments to be provided be set on the basis of imports of those particular commodities for 1947?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The formula governing imports of electrical parts is under intensive study at the moment. Meetings are being held with branches of industry. I cannot say positively when the quotas will be announced, but it will certainly be before the first of April, and possibly before the first of March, although I doubt if the latter date is possible. As for the standard period, that is being considered. It would hardly be the calendar year 1947. It will be some specific period which the trade will agree is fair to all branches of industry.
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Mr. SKEY:: Would this be the right time to discuss import permits as far as the aircraft industry is concerned, or should that come under the tariff items?


Clarence Decatur Howe: That should come later. Consideration has not been given to that item.


Lawrence Wilton Skey: It is in the bill.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I know it is in the bill, but I suggest that it be left until we come to the tariff items.


William Ross Macdonald: Shall the clause carry?


An hon. MEMBER:: On division.


[Stage Direction]
Section agreed to.
On section 4-No permits for goods in schedule I-exception.
Mr. MANROSS:: I want to ask two or three questions. I know that barber chains are prohibited, but I suggest that there ought to be one for the Minister of Finance, who has to get up and down so much. I do not suppose there is a standard formula for deciding what "hardship" means. Is each case decided on its own merits?


Douglas Charles Abbott: That has to be pretty much )the rule.


Park Manross: What is a hardship, and *who decides the question? Is it decided on the ministerial level, or by men in the departments?


Douglas Charles Abbott: There is a departmental committee consisting of Mr. Taylor, the assistant deputy minister of finance, who is chairman, Mr. Gordon, representing the foreign exchange control board, Mr. Sim, representing customs and excise, Mr. Taggart, representing the Department of Agriculture, and Mr. Mackenzie, deputy minister of trade and commerce. All requests that come to the emergency import control division for treatment under the hardship provision are examined first by the officials of the division. They are considered by this committee, and if they fall into a pattern which has been recognized as constituting hardship they will be granted without reference to myself. If the case is unusual, and that has often been so, then the matter is referred to me with the recommendation of the committee, and I make the decision. I probably discuss the matter for some time. In one or two particular cases we had, we discussed them for nearly a week before we came to a final conclusion. Under the provision of that order in council now and under the act as drafted, I am the final judge. As I said the other night, I have
{Mr. Howe.]
to exercise something in the nature of a judicial function there. After having all the facts put before me, I have to decide whether it. is a case of exceptional hardship which merits consideration under this section.


Park Manross: I suppose, if a company gets a letter back from an individual in the department saying that he does not see there is any hardship, there is still a further appeal?


Douglas Charles Abbott: They can always appeal directly to the minister, if they want to; a great many have.


Park Manross: There will be more. I have not yet had time to dictate the letters. With regard to the refrigerator problem which the hon. member for Melfort mentioned, I was going to mention that again under section 4 because I thought that was where it should be dealt with. In certain cases it does create some hardship, especial!}' in rural areas where in the last few years these cold storage plants have been put in. Encouragement has been given to the farmers to freeze their fruits, vegetables and meats; and they have to come down to get these things at the refrigerated storage. Once meats are frozen, they must be used quickly or be put in a refrigerator. People living out on a dirt road ten or fifteen miles from a cold storage plant have to bring back more than enough for one meal or for one day. These refrigerators which are operated by kerosene or gas flame are not imported in great quantity, but they are used in homes in towns w'here they are vitally necessary, more so than in the cities where there is an available ice supply or hydro supply. The hon. member said something about importing them when they were available from other countries. Of course these refrigerators can be purchased from Sweden, but they are antiquated and by the time you get them here they cost about four times as much as those being imported from the United States.
As to the possibility of making this type of refrigerator in Canada, I think it is beyond the realm of all practical possibility because it is a welded job, self-contained inside, one tube inside another, and it would be necessary to tool up to make them. The factory which makes them in the United States makes about 300,000 a year. The potential demand for refrigerators in Canada is probably about 15,000, so it would mean that the cost of your tools and dies would have to be absorbed; and it would take about fifty years to absorb the cost of your original set of tools and dies, and they would have been obsolete many years before then.

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Tiie minister said that probably this might be the first item considered. I hope he is right. I have no connection with any refrigerator company any more, so it is nothing to me personally. I have none of these outfits in my riding. I am just rising here because I know the market and I know where they are used. When the minister is giving consideration to hardship that has been created for certain people in rural areas, I think he should consider this at least to the extent of allowing some quota or of making some provision for gas and kerosene refrigerators for these rural territories. He said that electrical refrigerators or refrigerators come in under item 415a, which covers gas and electric. But if the department will look the matter up I think they will find that these entries of kerosene refrigerators have all been made at one port, and it would be easy to distinguish between electrically operated ones and kerosene operated ones.


Douglas Charles Abbott: As I said, I will look into that question. Total imports of refrigerators last year were something of the order of $4,000,000. It may be, as my hon. friend suggests, that we could pick out the kerosene ones and see what they amounted to. As I have said, I will give consideration to relaxation as soon as it is possible to do that.


Mr. ISNOR:: The hon. member for Brandon (Mr. Matthews) brought to my attention a problem which is similar to one I have in Halifax. I think it could be termed a hardship in so far as this particular type of consumer is concerned. I refer to the working man who uses overalls and smocks. If the Minister of Trade and Commerce will look at the figures of exports and our total production in Canada he will find that, whereas Ihe total consumption of textiles was 486,000,000 square yards, the Canadian production amounted to only 268,000,000 yards. Of the remainder the United States supplied 213,000,000 yards. In the projected program there is provision made for only 51,000,000 yards from the United States. Needless to say, that will not fill the consumption requirements as outlined in the figures I have already mentioned.
I am making a plea for the small manufacturer who is endeavoring to produce that type of work clothes, and I would ask favourable consideration by the minister for permits to import United States denims, if applications for such permits are brought to his attention. The same argument applies to denims used in connection with sails for sailboats, awnings and other things. They are imported
to a large extent. I have particularly in mind a new manufacturer in Halifax, the Maritime Canvas Converters, who employs thirty-five men at the present time. If they do not procure the necessary yardage for the making of sails-and their export business requires sail making-the sales concerned will be cut off. This is a new business for our end of the country, and I am particularly interested in seeing that nothing be done to stop any export business or manufacturing there.
While I am on my feet, there is one other item I think I should bring to the attention of the minister in the hope that nothing will prevent a firm making rock-wool insulation from getting the material they require. The insulation is made to a large extent from seaweed, but they require a tar wrapping and1 this is procurable only in the United States. They are unable to sell their products for insulating purposes unless they have a proper covering such as a tar covering to protect the product. They have already made application which has not as yet been accepted. I trust the minister will give this application favourable consideration. So that there will be no mistake about it, the profit:ct is rock-wool insulation, made by Guilfords Limited!, of Halifax, a fine firm. I do mot know just now as to the number of men they employ. It is a new industry in our section of the country and something that is giving employment not only to men in the factory but to men on the shore, the fishermen who collect the seaweed and1 ship it to Halifax. Will the minister be good' enough to take under consideration these two items, namely, United States denims and this covering for the product which I have mentioned?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I shall be glad to look at the case which the senior member for Halifax has brought to my attention.


Park Manross: I am sorry to hark back to refrigerators again, but there is one more thing I want to ask the minister. Another refrigerator manufacturer made refrigerators last year and shipped them out short of certain parts because they were not procurable. The parts have since come in. They are in bond and are paid for by the retail customers in the field or the householders; but the collector of customs will not let the manufacturer clear them out of bond because they are now on the prohibited list. They come under item 432b, which is hollow-ware, vitreous, which is prohibited right now. The manufacturer in the United States cannot take them back because they are obsolete with h>m
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Douglas Charles Abbott: I will look into the matter myself. But if it is brought to the attention of. the division, it sounds like a case in which a permit could) be given.


Edmund Davie Fulton: I should like to ask the minister a question or two in reference to his rbcent transfer of certain British goods from the prohibited to the quota list. That was announced in the press this morning. I am a faithful reader of the Montreal Gazette; I have the statement here which was made last evening by the minister, or issued on his behalf. What was the reason behind these transfers? Was it to .expand trade with the United Kingdom by permitting them to sell more to us?


Douglas Charles Abbott: In those cases it was found they were items which were available in the United Kingdom which could be transferred to the quota list without involving any substantial imports of like items from dollar areas. In other words, to put it bluntly, we could allow substantial quantities of United Kingdom exports of that kind without the necessity of allowing any comparable quantities of similar goods from dollar areas. There have been a number of cases of that kind. We have been continually in discussion with the British high' commissioner and the British trade authorities, looking into cases of that kind where, without appreciably affecting the expenditure of United States dollars, we could so arrange the quota list or the prohibited list as to enable certain commodities to be imported. There were such things as jams, prepared foods and so on.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Silverware, glassware and other items.


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is right. I mentioned a number of times previously that a number of items which at first blush might appear to be luxury items were coming principally from soft currency areas where we have extended credits, and where it was desirable that we should encourage exports.


Edmund Davie Fulton: That seems to bear out the statements which have been made from this side, to the effect that the non-discriminatory principle of the bill was a poor principle and that we should not have applied the whole scope of this legislation to soft currency areas when we applied it to the United States. I would go a little farther and say that on December 19, the last day of the pre-Christmas session, I forecast that the government would find it necessary to relax these restrictions against sterling countries if they expected them to continue to buy from us and so expand our trade. So I am glad to see these

transfers being made. If the minister has the information available I should like him to tell us the number of items so transferred from the prohibited list to the quota list, and the number of items which have been released altogether from restriction.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I gave this information the other evening, but speaking from memory I think some fifteen categories have been taken from the prohibited fist, and most of them have been placed on the quota list. I would have to refer to my previous statement to give the exact number, but I believe some fifteen categories were removed the other day from what will become schedule I and placed in schedule II.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Then I should like to know why we cannot take off the restrictions altogether as far as the United Kingdom is concerned. It would not cost us anything in United States dollars. Why, then, can we not relax the restrictions, particularly with respect to such things as electrical appliances, which we need?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I have argued this point day after day and night after night. A number of hon. members, some forty-two, did not agree with me, but I thought we had dealt with the amendment of the hon. member for Kindersley, which would have taken the nondiscriminatory principle out of this bill and inserted the discriminatory. That is over and done with.


Edmund Davie Fulton: That is not my present suggestion at all. I say we could relax the restrictions, by transfers, if you like, or by amending the schedules as far as the United Kingdom is concerned. On the point that the United States might resent it, if the minister was going to raise that point, I certainly think they would be no more resentful against us for doing directly what we are doing now by this indirect method.


Douglas Charles Abbott: There is no indirect method about it. On examination of particular cases we are finding that we can transfer a category from the prohibited list to the quota list without causing what we consider would be too great a drain upon our United States dollar resources, and in such case we do it at once. You have to look into the trade statistics; you have to see what the result would be on the basis of last year's trade figures; you have to make a projection as to what it is likely to be this year, and then you make a policy decision. But that is what we have to do all the time, and I have tried to

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indicate that all the powers contained in the bill are so drafted to permit the relaxation of these measures by moving from a, higher category to a lower one, but we cannot move them back again.


Edmund Davie Fulton: But your whole trend is to relax restrictions against trade with the United Kingdom.


Mr. JAENICKE:: Can the minister tell us how many permits have been issued already under section 4?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I gave that information the other evening.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: I thought I was here all the time, but I missed that. If there are not too many could the minister classify them; that is, could he tell us what goods were affected and from what countries those goods came? I should like also to have some explanation as to how he exercises his discretion in regard to hardship. That is, is it to be a hardship on the Canadian importer, or the foreign exporter, or the Canadian public? I believe the minister mentioned one case when he introduced this bill, or on second reading, where he said the goods had been specially made for the Canadian importer, and I presume that would be a hardship case as far as both the exporter and the importer were concerned. I think the committee should have some explanation as to how this hardship is to be determined; that is, the discretion the minister exercises in determining whether or not there is hardship.
There is another question I should like to ask in connection with this section, and it refers to vegetables, which are prohibited under schedule I. About half an hour ago the minister made a statement in connection with this matter, but I believe at the present time tomatoes are being imported from the Bahamas.


Douglas Charles Abbott: That was a hardship case.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: And from Jamaica. I am not complaining about that, by any means, but I should like the minister to tell us on what he exercised his discretion in that particular case, and who got the benefit of that discretion. Does he allow the importation of all the tomatoes that can be shipped from Jamaica or the Bahamas, or was it just one special case? I believe the committee should have an explanation.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Perhaps we had better take these questions by instalments, or I may forget some of them. As I said the other evening, permits issued under the hardship
and unusual circumstances clause totalled 5,226 to February 7, with a total dollar value of $7,228,147. The great majority of those goods were from the United States. There were fifty-three permits in connection with other scheduled countries, that is other dollar countries; 446 from the United Kingdom and 169 from other non-scheduled countries. I could place two or three tables on Hansard if the committee wished it. They are longish, but not too long, giving some breakdown of the products, values, names of countries, and the like. Perhaps that would be useful to the committee. These tables give most of the information which has just been requested by the hon. member for Kindersley.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: Will these tables show the hardships?


Douglas Charles Abbott: No. I will come to that in a moment. They show the categories.
The tables follow:



TABLE I

[Stage Direction]
Statement of import permits issued against "particular hardship" applications as of February 7, 1948: U.S.A.		
Lumber 	248	$ 935,399Furniture and fixtures ...	339	265,923Radios and cabinets	93	196.257Washing machines 	21	119,821.Electrical supplies 	192	249,990'Heating and plant mach. ..	154	98,638Textiles 	408	714,038Leather goods 	83	24,677Sporting goods 	35	21.469Paper products 	692	547,536Paint and lacquers 	364	269.409Oil and grease 	151	47,891Yeast 	19	55,537Synthetic casings 	11	332.957Pens, pencils and novelties	265	80,018Clocks and jewelry 	111	17,758Canned food 	34	100,556Other food 	94	377,353Hospital supplies 	36	7,233Office machinery 	6	13,719Seeds 	108	346,666Glassware 	26	12,065Grapes 	56	271,144Personal 	690	18.384Sundry 	321	102,903Explosives and ammunition	4	2,620Total U.S.A	4.558	$5,211,061Other scheduled countries ..	53	89,257Total scheduled countries ..	4,611	$5,300,31®Great Britain 	446	$ 925,120'Other non-scheduled 	169	1,002,709Total non-scheduled 	615	$1,927,829Recapitulation	Scheduled countries ....	4,611	$5,300,318Non-scheduled countries..	615	1,927,829Grand total	5,226	$7,228,147
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[Stage Direction]
Statement of import permits issued against "particular hardship" applications as of February 7, 1048:
Great Britain
Paper	
49	$ 31,139Chin aware and novelties	75	23,192Food and confectionery	
170	606,999Oil paintings and antiques ....	11	28,281Furniture	
22	28,406Heating equipment	
2	10,387Jewelry	
14	6,685Electrical supplies	
10	1,798Furs	
11	82,164Typewriters and office equip. ..	2	1,700Textiles	
3	6,665Paint and polishes	
16	7,208Sundry	
60	22,036Silverware	
1	8,400
446 $925,120

[Stage Direction]
Statement of import permits issued against "particular hardship" applications as of February 7, 1948:
Scheduled Countries	(Other Than U.S.A.)	
		 5	$ 7,959
Hawaii 	
13	13,002Philippines 	
1	490Switzerland 	
30	35,024Venezuela 	
2	40Russia 	
1	13,702Guatemala 	
1	40
53 $89,257
As to hardship, that is a matter, as I said before, where in the final analysis I really have to exercise a judicial function. A hardship may be that of the importer or of the exporter or of both; or, in the third case he mentioned, a hardship suffered by some particular portion of the whole of the Canadian public. Any of these factors can be taken into consideration. But the question of hardship is qualified by the word "exceptional".
In respect of tomatoes, to which the hon. member referred, it will be understood that they were imported from Jamaica and the Bahamas. The circumstances were these, that the government of the Bahamas, through the British trade commissioner at that point, made representations to us that these tomatoes had been grown for the Canadian market, that there was no effective alternative market to which they could be sent, and that if they were not shipped to Canada a serious hardship would be caused to exporters in that country.
As my hon. friend knows, the Bahamas constitute a small community, and there are not many varieties of products available. After full consideration of all the circumstances, we came to the conclusion that import permits should be allowed for those products.	.
TMr. Abbott.]
Frank Eric Jaenicke: To whom were those permits granted?


Douglas Charles Abbott: What happened was this, that the imports were arranged through Mr. Stollmeyer, the British West Indies trade commissioner. They were imported through regular channels of trade, and were put out on the mark-up control having regard to the cost to the wholesaler. The price is 37 cents retail, and the cost was $4.50 a lug of 28 pounds. The top price from the wholesaler to the retailer has been fixed at $6.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Is that a continuing
exemption?


Douglas Charles Abbott: No; it covers just this crop. It was really just to take care of this emergent situation. It was represented to us-and we were impressed by the reasonableness of the representations-that when the restrictions were put on, the growers in Nassau, particularly, who had grown these tomatoes, had been relying upon this market, to which they had always exported.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: Were shipments allocated to the different wholesalers in the country?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am told that was done by the trade, themselves. That is what has been done in other cases.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: What does the minister mean by "the trade"? Has the wholesale trade an association?


Douglas Charles Abbott: There is the wholesale vegetable trade, and they have an association of which Mr. Burrows is the head, and which undertook to arrange for equitable distribution.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Do the tables which the minister has put on Hansard include transfers of oranges, grapefruit, lemons, fruit juices and the like to the quota list?


Douglas Charles Abbott: They were not taken out of schedule I; they were always in the quota list. Citrus fruits were always under quota; they have never been completely banned.


Mr. McLURE:: Perhaps the minister would answer the question I asked yesterday. It was this:
Will Canadian-owned goods now being processed in the United States require a permit to bring them back to manufacturers in Canada?
Perhaps the minister could answer that now.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I believe I replied to my hon. friend that I would have to look into the matter. I do not know that I would be able to give him an answer before consideration of the bill in committee has been concluded.

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Thomas John Bentley: I suppose it oould be considered an exceptional hardship if one section of the public is deprived of something it has been in the habit of using as household equipment. There would also be exceptional hardship for the merchant who is deprived of that stock in trade. I will refer to the matter of propane stoves. Does either of the ministers have the necessary authority to say that a Canadian manufacturer of a similar product, one which heretofore has been under more or less of a monopoly or has been guided through special agents of those companies, may make his product available to other distributors, so that they will not suffer any hardship? Has either minister power to do that and, if so, will he exercise that power so that there may be some fairness in the matter?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I do not know offhand where such power may exist. It sounds somewhat analogous to the equitable distribution measures which were in force during the war. However, I should have to give further consideration to the point just raised.


Thomas John Bentley: Will you do that?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I shall look into it, and see what the situation is.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: The minister has put on record a list of articles.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I have placed three tables on Hansard, and if there is any further information it may be made available.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Under this section is special provision with respect to veterans in business made by the minister, or is there some other provision under which those veterans would come?


Douglas Charles Abbott: The special provision with respect to veterans applies only with respect to quota goods. And either under this section or under section 5, which deals with the regulations, provision has been made where, in addition to quotas which have been established under the mathematical formula based upon last year's imports, there has been a special quota arrangement for veterans who did not have a record of business during the twelve months prior to the coming into force of the restrictions.


Edmund Davie Fulton: In so far as goods in schedule I are concerned, they are in exactly the same position as anybody else.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Yes, those are prohibited. They are prohibited to everyone.


Mr. McMASTER:: As items are moved from schedule I to schedule II, or from 5849-84
schedule II to III as the case may be, how are the public notified of those changes?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Up to the present it
has been done by means of press releases and advice to the trade, if it is something concerning a particular trade. Then there is publication in the Canada Gazette. I should think that, after a short while, there would not be so many. The schedules will be finalized-if I may use a word which might be considered objectionable-and then, from time to time, as it is possible to do so, they may be moved from one schedule to the other.


[Stage Direction]
Section agreed to.
On section 5-Regulations governing issue of permits for goods in schedules II and III.
Edmund Davie Fulton: In subsection 1 (g) the governor in council is given power to make regulations suspending the operation of the act with respect to any person or any goods or any class of persons or class of goods. Without going into all the arguments which have been made since this bill first came to the house with respect to dictatorial powers and discrimination, following what was said yesterday by the minister where he stated that he disliked legislation of this type as much as anybody else did, I was wondering whether he would consider confining paragraph (g) to goods and classes of goods, leaving out reference to persons or classes of persons, thereby limiting the discrimination?


Douglas Charles Abbott: This is the purpose of that section. There must be some provision of that kind in order to enable exceptions to be made for institutions such as hospitals, or for trade fairs and matters of that kind. Admittedly it is a discretionary provision; I do not deny that. But it is very difficult to spell out any section of this kind so as to meet all the cases which one may wish to meet.
It will be noted that this is a relaxing provision. If authorized by the regulations, the minister may relax these restrictions. It is true that it would open the door to favouritism, if the minister were so inclined. But I really believe that, on balance, it is better to leave it in these general terms, thereby allowing reasonable freedom to the administration to relax these restrictions in cases such as I have mentioned, or in such other cases as it may be deemed proper to take such action. If the power were exercised unwisely, I should hope we would hear about it in the house.
I should have added that this can be exercised only in virtue of a regulation published

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in the Canada Gazette and tabled in the House of Commons, so that the public will be enabled to see in what circumstances these relaxing powers are exercised.


Edmund Davie Fulton: I appreciate that, also the spirit of the ministers remarks, but I ask again whether he does not think the retention of the words "any goods or class of goods," gives him the discretionary power which he envisages.


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is not quite accurate. It has to be by regulation adopted on the recommendation of the minister by the governor in council and published in the Canada Gazette. What I would contemplate is this. It might be determined, for instance, that such-and-such articles contained in schedule I which are under prohibition are removed with respect to importations by hospitals, schools or other public institutions. That is the way in which the regulation would have to be drafted. I do not think there could be a general regulation exempting anybody that the minister might determine. This is purely an enabling power giving the governor in council power to exempt by regulation any person or any goods or any class of goods. I think it should be reasonably satisfactory with those safeguards.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: It is under this section that regulations will be established for quotas. The minister said that the first part of schedule II included foods, which would be allowed to be imported to the extent of 200 per cent of the 1937-39 period. Is that correct?


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is correct.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: And textiles 400 per cent? I presume you will have power to raise or lower these quotas?


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is correct. That is why it is not put in the act but is to be done by regulation.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: How are these quotas to be allocated among the trade?


Douglas Charles Abbott: The importer files his list of imports in the base period and is given a percentage of those imports, and the same percentage applies to every importer.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: How do you arrive at those percentages?
* Mr. ABBOTT: In category 1 it happens to be 50 per cent; in category 2, it is 32 per cent. Those figures were arrived at, after consideration of the imports of these articles in the preceding period, on the basis of how much we felt we should try to save in the coming period.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: What is the preceding period?


Douglas Charles Abbott: The preceding period just closed, 1947. Our estimates of savings are based on imports for the base period projected- into the coming period, following the imposition of restrictions -but with the quotas in- effect. In other words, the effect of the textile quota would be to reduce our imports to about 40 per cent of those during the base period.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: The minister has the power to transfer commodities from schedule I to schedule II, but he would have no power to transfer them from schedule II to I.


Douglas Charles Abbott: The governor in council has the power.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: It has?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Not from schedule II to I but from schedule I to II. We can relax but not make more rigid.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Where is the power to transfer from schedule II to schedule III? I do not find that here.


Douglas Charles Abbott: We can establish a quota for any article in schedule III if we wanted to under the regulation-making power given by section 5.


Gordon Graydon: The easier way would be as you usually do it, just have the Minister of Trade and Commerce write a letter.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Would it not be advisable for you to give yourself the specific power to transfer from schedule II to schedule III? If you restrict a thing in schedule II to a certain percentage of imports in a certain period, I do not see how, by including it in schedule III, you have relaxed your restrictions.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I shall have to look into that.


Wilfrid Garfield Case: Someone has said that everyone is expected to understand the law except a lawyer. The powers given by section 5 are so great that I am wondering what provision is made to protect the individual. Changes have already been made in the schedules. The government has removed certain restrictions and imposed others. How will the average individual be able to keep pace with what is going on? The onus of proof will be upon him. If he contravenes the law the responsibility will be his. Provision is made here that the minister can change the purposes of the section and rearrange the schedules and all the rest of it.

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Douglas Charles Abbott: As my hon. friend will appreciate, the great majority of the people in Canada are not importers. Relatively speaking, the importers are a small proportion of the Canadian public, and they are pretty well on their toes to learn what these new orders and regulations are. The government is doing its best to keep them informed. I think every item in schedules I, II and III will be pretty well settled for a few months. There may be minor changes from time to time, but I do not think there should be too much difficulty in getting information as to them. In the advertisements I had published I emphasized the point that if information was wanted, they should go to their nearest collector of customs. There are a great many of these collectors at ports right across the country, in any place of substantial size, and up-to-date information is kept in the hands of the collectors, who act as agents of the import control division for the purpose of carrying out the act.


Wilfrid Garfield Case: Yet by the terms of the bill the information has only to be published in the Canada Gazette, which has an extremely limited circulation.


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is true; but, as my hon. friend knows, in practice we always issue a press release on matters of importance, and it gets into the papers. We would try to use other vehicles of information as well.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: Another matter is not quite clear to me. The minister said that the trade will be allocated according to certain percentages. Take textiles, for instance-


Douglas Charles Abbott: I do not want to be misquoted. I said each importer was given a percentage of his imports during the base period. All importers are treated in exactly the same way. If Smith and Company imported $100,000 of textiles in the base period they would be allowed to import $32,000 worth this year, being 32 per cent of the quota, and every other importer would be treated in exactly the same way.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: Suppose all these percentages do not amount to the 400 per cent?


Douglas Charles Abbott: The 400 per cent is a global quota. In the base period, textiles were imported to the amount of $10,301,000 from schedule countries, from dollar countries. Four hundred per cent of that is roughly $40,000,000. Imports in the base period were $128,525,000. Forty million divided into the figure I just gave gives us approximately 32 per cent.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: Is that imports from scheduled countries?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Scheduled countries.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: What is the figure for non-scheduled countries?


Douglas Charles Abbott: What figures have you in mind?


Mr. KNOWLES:: That is a fair question.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Here are the average
imports of textiles in the base period 1937-39: scheduled countries, $10,301,000; non-scheduled countries, $30,591,000; total $40,892,000. These were the total imports from scheduled and non-scheduled countries in the base period of 1937-39. That is the average for these years.


Edmund Davie Fulton: What is the total?


Douglas Charles Abbott: The total is $40,892,000. That was the global quota. In 1946-47 the imports were, from scheduled countries, $128,535,000; from non-schedulcd countries, $52,402,000, or a total of $1SO,937,000. The global quota is 400 per cent of the average imports in the period 1937-39, and taking the scheduled countries, which are the ones we are interested in, the dollar countries, 400 per cent of $10,301,000 is approximately $40,000,000, something in excess of $40,000,000. Some rapid calculator can figure it out. Forty million is approximately 32 per cent of $128,000,000, and that is the way the quota is arrived at.


Stanley Howard Knowles: It is just as clear as mud.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Subsection 3 of section 5 is a peculiar one. Perhaps the minister can explain it. It reads as follows:
Where the governor in council is of opinion that any goods not included in schedules I, II or III, are being imported into Canada for use or consumption in substitution for any goods included in those schedules, respectively, the governor in council may by regulation prescribe that such goods shall be deemed to be included in schedule I, II or III, as the ease may be, in which the goods for which the said goods are so substituted, are included.
What is the import of the subsection? Is it a case of there being some subterfuge in the importer bringing in goods which will defeat the purposes of the act, or what?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Broadly speaking, that is about right, yes. That is pretty much a standard provision in all customs acts at the present time. If you prohibit the import of an article you have a provision in your act to the effect that if something is manufactured which is in effect a substitute for that, although it may not come within the technical definition of the tariff item, it, is then treated in exactly the same way. In other words, substitute goods stand on the same footing, prohibition or quota, as the case may be, as the goods which are set out specifically in the tariff item.

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Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: The basis of this bill is to save United States dollars. The minister is now stating practically that its basis is protection, is he not?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Well, if the scheduled
articles include refrigerators and somebody produces something that performs the function of a refrigerator but which would not come within the tariff definition, it should be excluded just as much as the refrigerator. In other words, we had the same sort of thing in the ' administration of the prices regulations during the war. You would put a price ceiling on a certain article. Well, by changing it slightly, or by getting a substitute you would perhaps try to get a higher price ceiling. I am told that this is a provision which is contained in the Customs Act, in the Excise Act, and in all these acts in order to prevent what my hon. friend has said would amount to an evasion of the. regulations by the use of a substitute product.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Has the minister considered the point I raised in regard to down-grading from schedule II to schedule III?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I have been answering a lot of other questions and I am afraid I have not had time to give consideration to it. If my hon. friend has no objection we can let it stand and I can come to it later.


Mr. ADAMSON:: I want to ask a question similar to the one asked by the hon. member for Parkdale. Who is the judge of substitution, the minister? If so, what minister?
-Mr. ABBOTT: The section provides that the governor in council must be of the opinion, and may, by regulation, prescribe. It would presumably be on the recommendation of the Minister of National Revenue, if it were brought to his attention in the course of his customs officers seeing these goods coming in through the customs, or on my recommendation, if I were informed of it. It is the governor in council that must take the responsibility.


Agar Rodney Adamson: The field is wide open.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Because I may not have another opportunity of asking this question, I shall turn from the side of the bill that we have been looking at to the positive side. I am wondering whether I should not get some information from the Minister of Trade and Commerce with respect to the positive side of this bill. In other words, it has been said here in the committee that, although we are prohibiting and putting quotas on imports, on the other hand we are also creating industry to produce commodities and so on in this country. Can the minister give us some information

in concise form, or can he put on Hansard those industries which have been touched by reason of the positive side of this bill, or those projects which are now brought into being because of the influence he has exerted on industry to create certain new products which formerly were imported from the United States or other hard money countries?


Clarence Decatur Howe: This bill deals only with the restrictive side of the program. There is another side that is being actively pursued. At present the most important development is growth of the manufacture of parts. The pressure for additional parts and components from Canadian sources has been so great that the government has decided to review the stores of machinery held by Canadian arsenals, and to rent out machines that can be useful to various manufacturers in expanding their operations. Everywhere in Canada, any space capable of making components is being explored and picked up by Canadian manufacturers.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: We are not dealing with that positive side of the matter in this bill. In what bill will we be dealing with it? Do we deal with it under P.C. 4678, or is it just some nebulous thing that we are talking about? Where is the legislative authority, or where is the bill which brings up this discussion and which affects industry?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Fortunately we do not need to pass legislation to encourage new industries or expand existing industries. We can do that without legislation. We are not passing a bill for expanding industries. That takes care of itself.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: The minister said something about it in his speech. I took it that
it was a policy which had been brought down by the government, under which the minister was authorized to bring about these changes and stir up industry along new lines. I remember earlier in the session the minister mentioned something about that.


The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN:: Order. I must ask the hon. member to deal with the section of the bill that is now before us.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: I may not have another opportunity. I will not labour it.


William Henry Golding: Order. The hon. member can hardly offer the excuse that he may not have an opportunity. I must remind him that speeches in committee must be strictly relevant to the clause under discussion.

Foreign Exchange Conservation


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Without labouring the point, might I ask the minister if he will give us some information, or when we might expect it?


William Henry Golding: The difficulty is that when the committee branches off into a discussion like that, if one member does it other members will also want to do it. The rule is intended to prevent that sort of thing, so that the committee can deal specifically with the clause under consideration.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I think the point raised by the hon. member for Kamloops is a good one and might be met by inserting an additional provision as (g) in this subsection 1, reading:
Providing that any goods included in schedule II shall be deemed to be included for the purposes of the act in schedule III in place of schedule II.
In other words, a corresponding provision with respect to schedule II goods. If that is acceptable I will ask the Minister of National Revenue so to move.


Mr. McCANN:: I move accordingly.


William Henry Golding: Hon. members have heard the amendment. Does it meet with the approval of the committee?


[Stage Direction]
Amendment agreed to.
Mr. JACKMAN:: Will the minister give an opinion on the request made by several members on this side as to the publication of the decisions particularly under schedule III, by the Minister of Trade and Commerce? Was any conclusion arrived at by the ministers?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Perhaps that can be considered when we come to section 9. I have given some thought to the suggestion made by the hon. member for Rosedale and, in so far as it is possible to do it, I am sure it would be desirable that it should be done, but I question whether it is really practicable. I do not quite see how it would work out except for broad categories such as the automobile industry or the electrical industry. Where an application is made to import a printing press, I find it hard to see how one could lay down a general principle, except the principle of the appreciation of all the circumstances, first, as to whether it is necessary in Canada, and, second, as to whether it would contribute either to greater export trade or to production in Canada which would save imports.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: It merely protects the liberty of the individual, which is the paramount consideration.


Douglas Charles Abbott: My hon. friend is speaking in generalities. I am as much interested in the liberty of the individual as anyone else in this house; but I am trying to look at the matter from a practical point of view to see what we can do, and speaking from legal experience I do not see how one could set up case law in the administration of a schedule such as schedule III. If it were possible I would be glad to do it.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: May I ask a question about a suggestion I made to the minister, which has been described as trading cattle for cabbages? The minister knows what I refer to; but to refresh his memory, I may say it occurred to me that he would be the gainer under the act if he were to allow a certain number of cattle to be exported to the United States and, with the proceeds received from those cattle, he could purchase $8,000,009 worth of cabbages, lettuce, beets, carrots, and one or two other vegetables which I enumerated on a former occasion. There would probably be a net United States income in the result, and among the premises on which I based the suggestion was the fact that when people are as much accustomed as the people of Canada are to a certain diet and cannot get salads, they choose some substitute other than more potatoes or additional bread. They eat more meat or fish and such fruit as can be imported. So that if the meat that would otherwise be consumed and would not be available for export to Britain, and the fish as well, were sent to the United States, where there is a hungry market for these commodities, we would have funds with which to, supply the normal and nutritious diet which the Canadian people expect and rightfully expect. The minister knows of the suggestion,, and I should like to know what the departmental officials have said regarding it.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I have listened with attention to my hon. friend's remarks and I am afraid I have no special comment to offer on them.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: I should like to have an answer to the suggestion. It is a constructive one and, as far as one can see without having all the details of administration presented to one, there is no reason why it should not be considered. I do not make this suggestion for the simple purpose of speaking, and I wish to have an answer.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Like all my hon. friend's suggestions, it will be considered.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: The minister does not realize the nature of these regulations. If he had some idea of what constitutes the normal

Tribute to Mr. Kenneth Cragg

healthy diet of the Canadian people-not the diet he said he was brought up on, so healthy and apparently so adequately, but the normal diet recommended by his own colleague the Minister of National Health and leading nutritionists-he would realize that among the articles specified are fresh leafy green vegetables daily. That is recommended by nutritionists throughout the world. .The minister endeavours to make out a case on. the theory' that, because our forefathers did not have certain things, we do not need them. I might remind him that the turnip was discovered1 by Lord Townshen-d for the express purpose of feeding cattle over the winter. Otherwise, cattle had to be slaughtered, but he developed turnips for this purpose, and that is why we can keep stock in cold climates from one season to another. The world progresses. I do not wish to take up time unduly, but if the minister does not give me an answer I shall be compelled to enumerate some of the principles of nutrition as outlined by Parran, surgeon general of the United States, and other nutritionists throughout the world. If 'the minister undertakes to get an answer from his officials in regard' to the suggestion I made, of trading cattle for cabbages, I shall be glad to -resume my seat and keep it.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am afraid we shall have to listen to my hon. friend's views on nutrition.. I cannot give and do not intend to give a further answer.
Section, agreed to.
On section 6-Ministerial power to prescribe procedure, forms, etc.


Gordon Graydon: Mr. Chairman, before this clause is taken up by the committee, might I be given an opportunity to say something by way of privilege at this time, concerning a -matter which, I am sure, is very' close -bo your heart, as it is to mine. It could not be brought up in the formal session of the house, having regard- to the established amenities of parliament, but I now crave the indulgence of this committee for a moment or so.
The press gallery of this parliament is an integral part of our parliamentary institutions and our parliamentary machinery. Its members are very close to us in our work, in. our friendships and in our affections. There have been few 'instances since I came to the house, or since you -came into it, Mr. Chairman, in which we have lost one of the members of the press gallery while the house was actually in session, and 'because of the cloud which has been cast- over -the -parliamentary scene

by the death yesterday of an outstanding correspondent, -the late Mr. Kenneth Cragg, I should like to pay a tribute to his memory, if I ma.v do so on this occasion..
He was a very close friend of yours, Mr. Chairman, as he was of mine and of many other members on all sides of the house. Mr. Cragg was an outstanding journalist. He was a widely-read author; a kindly and witty philosopher; a fine public-spirited Canadian; a devoted husband and father. The sudden passing yesterday of this illustrious Canadian removed a man while he was y-et in harness; and perhaps he died in the way in which he would have wished'.
He was parliamentary correspondent for the Globe and Mail for five years and, while in that position, as -in previous positions which he filled so well, he had built up a high reputation for newsy, accurate, fair and broadminded writing and reporting from here and elsewhere. Throughout his journalistic career his agricultural background kept peeping out from behind in almost every story he wrote for public consumption. I think that added to the richness and the value of the contributions he so liberally made to the public in general. Written under the handicap of most indifferent health, his most recent volume called "Father on the Farm" has cheered the lives and revived the memories of many thousands of Canadians whose interest in agriculture has never flagged nor failed, regardless of the avocation to which they later went during their lifetime. That work is in a class of its owTn and its author has made a contribution of a signal character to the Canadian literature of our time.
The press gallery will miss one of its most popular personalities; the Globe and Mail, one of its high-class journalists; parliament, one of its most honest and interesting commentators, and Canada, one of her finest native sons. Hon. members on all sides of the house this afternoon will, I am sure, want to pause to pay tribute to the life and work of Kenneth Cragg and- to extend to Mrs. Cragg, Brian and Katherine, his father and his aunt, our deep and genuine sympathy in this their sad hour of trouble and sorrow.


Mr. GARDINER:: In view of the close association which Mr. Cragg has always maintained with agriculture I wish to speak, on behalf of the government and I am sure I speak on behalf of all members on this side of the house, in agreement with all that has been said by the hon. member for Peel. Since coming to the House of Commons, I have never been more shocked than I was yester-

Tribute to Mr. Kenneth Cragg
day when it was announced to my office that Mr. Cragg had passed on. He was in my office just shortly before, as he has been often ever since he has been associated with the gallery during my time in Ottawa. Scarcely a week has gone by that he has not been in to inquire with regard to agricultural matters. I wish to say that all the reports he has made on matters having to do with agriculture, and more particularly with regard to anything that has been said in this house, from any side of it, on behalf of agriculture, have been made in a manner which not only did credit to the paper for which he wrote but showed a consideration for and understanding of farmers throughout Canada-and throughout the world for that matter-which is shown by very few who write on public matters.
On one occasion I had the privilege of driving with him over a considerable part of the province of Manitoba; and at other times over other sections of Canada. I always found him most anxious to become correctly informed as to the life of people on the farm. Anyone who has read his delightful book cannot avoid being impressed with the knowledge which he himself had through experience with persons who are typical farmers. Anyone who has had the home experience that he must have had in order to make it possible to write a book of the kind, is in a position to speak for and of farmers in a manner which few others can. I think not only this house but Canada, and more particularly that section of Canada for which he wrote daily, has suffered a great loss in the passing of this revered late member of the press gallery. I join with everything that has been said by the hon. member for Peel in paying our respects and tribute to him and in passing on our sympathy to his immediate family.


Mr. MacINNIS:: Might I be allowed, Mr. Chairman, on behalf of this group to join in the expressions of sympathy to the family and relatives of the late Mr. Cragg. Mr. Cragg was one of the few members of the press gallery whom I could call my personal friend. It was always a pleasure to meet him and to talk with him. Such was his nature that I think he would be indeed surprised to hear the comments that have been made today in this house in regard to his character. I am glad to be able to associate the members of this group with what was so well said by both the Minister of Agriculture and the hon. member for Peel.


Mr. LOW:: I feel that I should associate the group I represent with all that has been said so well by other speakers in connection
with the untimely passing of this member of the press gallery. Being one of the newer members of the House of Commons I did not have the privilege of knowing Mr. Cragg very well. But I feel sure that I am expressing the sentiments of all my group in associating ourselves with what has been said and in expressing our sincere sympathy to those who are left to mourn him.


William Ross Macdonald: The committee will now revert to the consideration of the bill. We are considering section 6.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Section 6, subsection 1, paragraph (c) reads as follows:
(c) in particular cases or classes of cases, from time to time, prescribe terms of, and conditions to a permit or the permission granted in a permit additional to those prescribed by regulation.
Will the minister, if he will, explain the-necessity for taking power to vary the terms or conditions of a permit in addition to those which are prescribed by the regulation? Surely he will be able to do all he wants to do under the regulation, without taking this additional authority.


Douglas Charles Abbott: The difficulty there is this. As my hon. friend points out, the section is fairly broad in its terms. Here is a case where it is felt that it may be necessary' to issue a ministerial direction. A quota holder has a certain quota for oranges or whatever you like. He proceeds to sell those in an area close to home, where perhaps it is a little more profitable, and he does not continue to supply the customers he has been in the habit of supplying. It is similar to the provision we made for equitable distribution during the war, where the Commodity Prices Stabilization Corporation, in importing goods, took steps to see that there was equitable distribution through the normal trade channels. Then again a man may have a quota-I am just citing examples-on textiles, which is a dollar quota. Instead of importing staples such as denim for overalls, and so on, he may go into high-grade textiles for bedspreads, or something like that. I am advised it is almost essential that there should be some power to impose, as a condition of the continuance of the quota, that it should be exercised equitably in relation to the import of goods by other people. It might be possible to phrase that section in a better way; I do not know. I have been worrying about it myself, but I have outlined to the committee why that power is needed. I freely concede it is one which can be abused; there is no doubt about that, but I am afraid that is also true of some other provisions.

Foreign Exchange Conservation


John Thomas Hackett: I think this is a startling departure. It shows how easy it is to follow the downward path. There was a period when we were, scandalized, I was going to say, by government by order in council. That seemed a radical departure from the rule of law as we understood it. This section empowers the minister who is in charge of its operation to follow his own whim. He does not even require an order in council; he does not even require a regulation. In fact there may be a regulation or an order in council to the contrary, but in the exercise of the discretion which is his he may determine what transaction may be entered into. But it does not stop there. If the minister is otherwise occupied anyone else who is in his service may exercise these extraordinary powers for him.
I submit that it is time to call a halt. Whatever may be the emergency-and I am not going to worry my hon. friends opposite with the ease with which they produce emergencies -arising out of this situation, it is an unimportant matter compared with the urgencies of war. Yet when the country's very existence was in the balance the government did not ask for the latitude which is exacted and taken in this section.


Clarence Decatur Howe: We had far more latitude during the war. We did not even require an act.


John Thomas Hackett: The minister is quite a latitudinarian, I admit, and we could probably find instances in which his interpretation of the law has been generous as far as his own powers were concerned. But I would be very much amazed if the minister could point to any statute in which a similar provision appears. This paragraph (c) of subsection 1 gives the minister power to act against the law and in spite of the law; I suggest to the government, with such seriousness as I can command, that it abandon this final encroachment upon the liberty of the citizen. The citizen must know the law; he is supposed to know the law; it is his duty to know the law. What opportunity is there for him to know the law? Somebody has said the law is fickle, but here the law is nothing but the whim of the departmental employee who exercises discretion under the minister. I submit that this means there is no possibility of knowing the law or of complying with the law. It is the negation of the rule of law.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I do not suppose this will command this provision to my hon. friend, but there is a similar section in identical terms in the Foreign Exchange Control Act.


John Thomas Hackett: Would the minister be good enough to point it out? I am always looking for light.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Yes. It is section 36 (1):
Subject to the provisions of this act and the regulations and under the control and direction of the minister, the board may
(b)	in particular cases or classes of cases, from time to time prescribe terms and conditions for permits additional to those prescribed by regulation or prescribe special forms of permits in cases where none is prescribed by regulation.


John Thomas Hackett: Surely the minister is not going to argue that the passage he has just read is comparable with paragraph (c) in this bill?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Almost word for word. That is where it was taken from.


John Thomas Hackett: I would point out to the hon. gentleman'-and he is far from lacking in powers of observation-that the board is, to begin with, something quite different from the minister.


Douglas Charles Abbott: The board is the creature of the minister, the agent of the minister.


John Thomas Hackett: We have had reason to complain of that, too; but the board is supposed to be a composite entity which meets and keeps minutes of its deliberations and has to put them on record. This paragraph reads:
Subject to this act and the regulations, the minister may
(c)	in particular cases or classes of cases, from time to time, prescribe terms of, and conditions to a permit or the permission granted in a permit additional to those prescribed by regulation.
If that means anything it means the minister can tear up the regulations whenever it pleases him. I submit, with great deference and respect to the hon. gentleman who is conducting this bill through the house, that the provision which is found ini the Foreign Exchange Control Act, and which has gotten us into enough trouble, is altogether different, altogether more restricted than the clause before us at the moment.
At six o'clock the committee took recess.
After Recess
The committee resumed at eight o'clock. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: When the committee rose at six o'clock we were dealing with section 6.

Foreign Exchange Conservation


Stanley Howard Knowles: In the drafting of this bill, or since, has consideration been given to altering this section so as to make it read that these regulations would be made by the governor in council?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Perhaps I should explain that the regulations are made and must be approved by the governor in council. This section covers acts which the minister may do, apart from regulations. The first of these is to prescribe the procedure to be followed in applying for and issuing permits. That is pretty much an administrative job, namely, filling out form number so and so. Then, it is to ,prescribe forms necessary for the administration of the act.
Before the dinner recess we were discussing paragraph (c) which contains, I concede, very broad powers to be exercised by the minister in dealing with individual cases. It is a power similar to that contained in the Foreign Exchange Control Act, the board in that instance being the agent of the minister.
I have given, personally, a great deal of thought to this paragraph, wondering how it might be framed in terms which would lay down some definite criteria as to the basis upon which the minister may act. But this is an extraordinarily difficult thing to do.
As I have said, the purpose is to enable fair treatment to be exercised between different importers. Perhaps by way of illustration I might read to the committee an alternative section which I had drafted, and which might commend itself as being less objectionable in form than the one which now appears in the bill. It would read in this way:
(c) In particular eases or classes of cases, where it is advisable in order to ensure that
(i)	the import of goods by a person pursuant to a permit is carried on equitably in relation to the import of goods by other persons to whom permits have been granted,
or,
(ii)	goods imported pursuant to permits are distributed so as to be available equitably to consumers
prescribe, from time to time, terms of and conditions to a permit or the permission granted in a permit additional to those prescribed by regulation;
That would set out the cases in which the minister might exercise that discretion in conformity, of course, with the provisions of the act and of the regulations which have to be approved by order in council. As I say, after discussing the matter thoroughly with those who were charged with the administration of similar provisions under wartime measures, and who will be charged with
administration in this instance, it was felt that it is almost essential for the efficient administration of the act that discretion should be vested in someone to deal with individual cases.
In the case of the foreign exchange control board it is vested in the board which, after all, is merely the agent of the minister. It did seem to me that it was better here to place the responsibility squarely upon the minister. It is true that in practice it would be exercised by some one whom he would delegate to do it. In the particular circumstances we have here, the head of the emergency import control division is one of the assistant deputy ministers, Mr. Taylor. That is the explanation of this paragraph (c).
I believe it is fair to say that it is the only subsection here which, in form, is objectionable as perhaps conveying somewhat too broad powers.


Stanley Howard Knowles: The minister has said two things which, it seems to me, strengthen our argument that this power should not stay solely in the hands of the minister. He has indicated that it will be difficult to indicate the criteria to be laid down; and he has also admitted that paragraph (c) as it now stands gives the minister very broad powers indeed. For these reasons it seems to me that the minister himself should want the protection of at least having to take this matter to his colleagues in the cabinet.
Things have moved a great deal in this parliament. It is not long since we were blasting against the idea of government by order in council. But here we have reached the point where so much power is being placed in the hands of a minister that we would welcome a return to the earlier days when ministers had at least to get the definite and specific approval of their colleagues in the cabinet in the form of orders in council.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I would gladly do that. I raised exactly the same question my hon. friend has raised when I was discussing the matter with my advisers. I said, "Surely these cases would not be so numerous that I could not make individual submissions to council each time in respect of hardship cases or cases of inequitable distribution". They assured me that in practice it was found, when similar questions arose in connection with wartime prices and trade board regulations, that, of necessity, there must be discretion in someone to act promptly in these individual cases.
It is not desired to have this power in order to be arbitrary in the administration of the

Foreign Exchange Conservation
act. It is to enable hardship cases to be dealt with promptly and to make sure that, if a man has a quota and he is not living up to his obligations under it, he can be forced to do so.
As I say, in view of my own philosophy in these matters, I am just about as much worried-or probably I should say bothered- by the broad general powers as is any member in the committee. But I cannot avoid being influenced by the advice I am given by people in whose judgment in these matters I have implicit confidence, because I have seen the responsibilities they have to carry.
If the committee felt that this should be a matter to be dealt with by regulation, which would mean individual submissions to council, I do not know that I could resist too strongly. I think I should be bound to say, however, that I believe it is more desirable to do it the other way.


Stanley Howard Knowles: I am glad to know the minister is bothered about it the way it stands. My further submission is that underlying this whole business of placing so much power in the hands of the minister is the notion that this is an exceedingly temporary piece of legislation. I am afraid that the disequilibrium of world trade is something that may be with us for some considerable time, or until we take more effective measures than these to deal with it, and that it is unwise to go ahead on that premise.
There is always the danger-and it does work out that way-that powers which we give to individuals temporarily, stay there for a very long time. I hope the minister will give the matter further thought.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I will. This very paragraph is primarily directed against quota permits, or the administration of the quota permits system, which has some complexities in its day-to-day administration. As I say, I have a suggested alternative to paragraph (c) which I think lays down pretty definitely the criteria which must govern in the exercise of these discretionary powers. But I do urge strongly that the committee leave that discretion in there because, as I repeat, I am assured by those who have the onerous task of administration that it is an essential thing to the smooth and effective administration of the act, in the interests, not of the people who have the administration of it, but rather in the interests of those who are subject to its administration.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: I appreciate what the minister has said respecting the administration of the act. I also appreciate what was said by the hon. member for Stanstead and the
TMr. Abbott.]
hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre. It seems to me that paragraph (c) of subsection 1 of section 61 is particularly objectionable because of paragraph (d), whereby the minister can delegate these extraordinary powers to some person who is not responsible to parliament. Might I suggest to the minister that he delete paragraph (c) altogether, or, if not, that he add by way of amendment the following words: "except as to the powers of the minister granted in this section".


Douglas Charles Abbott: I would not object to accepting that last suggestion. I think it is desirable under the administration section to give the minister power to delegate his authority but not power to exercise discretionary powers conferred by section 6.


Frank Eric Jaenicke: That was my suggestion. Would the minister move an amendment accordingly?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Perhaps in order to cover it I might ask one of my colleagues to move the more restrictive language which I indicated to the committee by way of amending paragraph (c) and a consequential amendment to paragraph (d) to exclude from its operation the discretion exercised under paragraph (c).


Mr. GREEN:: Just what would paragraph (d) cover?


Douglas Charles Abbott: The actual granting of the permit and other routine details in connection with administration. Perhaps that is necessarily implied; I do not know. I am told that it is usual to have this provision in the administration section. There is a great deal of routine work such as the signing of permits. There are some 7,000 quotas, I am informed. It is that sort of thing. I would hate to have to put my signature to all these quotas.


Howard Charles Green: Would not the power to sign permits be covered by section 6 (1) (a), which gives the minister power to prescribe the procedure to be followed in applying for and issuing permits? On the other hand, this very wide power given in paragraph (d) authorizes any person under the minister's control and direction to act for him. That is a wide-open power to delegate, and I suggest that it is not necessary.


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is qualified by the words, "under his control and direction". The minister must always take the responsibility. He must accept responsibility for the acts of those whom he appoints to act for him. Section 3 (1) provides that the minister may issue, vary, or revoke permits, and so on and

Foreign Exchange Conservation
-so forth. I do not think that is a dangerous provision. Frankly, it did not give me special concern. But, again frankly, section 6 (1) (c) did. I felt that it was including broad discretionary powers which were pretty sweeping.


Howard Charles Green: I suggest, in support of the hon. member for Kindersley, that the minister make his amendment to 6 (1) (c) and delete 6 (1) (d) altogether. I do not think any harm will be done to the efficient administration of the act by deleting paragraph (d).


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am told that a similar power is contained in a great many acts, and not only war emergency acts. The treasury solicitor tells me that. I cannot speak from personal knowledge, but I would hesitate to strike out the paragraph without consulting the legal advisers to see what the possible effect might be. Perhaps in the meantime my colleague would move the amendment to paragraph (c).
Mr. ST. LAURENT: I move:
That paragraph (c) of section 6(1) be deleted and the following substituted therefor:
"(c) in particular cases or classes of cases, where it is advisable in order to ensure that
(i)	the import of goods by a person pursuant to a permit is carried on equitably in relation to the import of goods by other persons to whom permits have been granted, or
(ii)	goods imported pursuant to permits are distributed so as to be available equitably to consumers
prescribe, from time to time, terms of and conditions to a permit or the permission granted in a permit additional to those prescribed by regulation."


Angus MacInnis: The amendment is long and somewhat involved; if the minister has not copies available I suggest that it stand until copies can be printed and circulated, and we can come back to the clause later this evening.


William Henry Golding: It is proposed that 6(1) (c) stand for the time being.


Douglas Charles Abbott: And there was a consequential amendment to 6(1) (d), Mr. Chairman. I would ask my colleague to move it.
Mr. ST. LAURENT: I move:
That 6(1) (d) be amended by adding thereto the following:
"except in the exercise of the powers conferred by this section."


Douglas Charles Abbott: That can stand until tomorrow.


Howard Charles Green: Can the minister give any further instances in which this power under paragraph (d) would be required?


Clarence Decatur Howe: If we attempt to decentralize, which we must in the administration of capital goods schedules, and permits were to be issued, say in Vancouver, it would be necessary to delegate to someone in Vancouver the powers of the minister to issue permits. My hon. friend smiles, but there will be about 15,000 permits a month required. They could not all be issued from a central office. The department has branch offices today which are being equipped to issue permits.


Howard Charles Green: The power the minister requires is given under 6(1)(a), by which he may prescribe the procedure to be followed in applying for and issuing permits.


Douglas Charles Abbott: A legal question is involved. I do not think it would override the specific provision of clause 3, "except in accordance with a permit issued by the minister." It is open to question; I do not know.


Calvert Charlton Miller: I take it that the minister has in mind appointing someone to act under himself as a sort of head of a permit issuing body. May I suggest that any such official should be restricted in his powers of making what are virtually orders in council such as was done under the wartime prices and trade board. Their orders were issued over the signature of Donald Gordon. I have no doubt he had the orders drawn and submitted them to the minister, who gave them his blessing on the say-so of Donald Gordon and then gave them the force of law by order in council. We have often pointed out on this side of the house that in too many cases the ordinary rights of the individual to defend himself in court were taken away by those orders.
I urge that the minister in administering this part of the act should make certain that when orders in council are drawn creating regulations these regulations should be gone over by his law officers or by the law officers of the crown, and carefully considered, and that they should1 not be the brain child of a single individual who may be as smart as any child of Adam could possibly be. I suggest that the regulations which are made by orders in council* should be carefully considered, possibly not by t'he minister who will not have time to do that, but at least by more than one law officer of the crown. In the past, under the wartime prices and trade board regulations the orders in council were, in my opinion at least, the brain child of some [DOT]expert who did not know all that he thought he knew.


Douglas Charles Abbott: May I say to my hon. friend, from experience extending over five or six years during the war, with fairly close

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contact certainly with the wartime prices and trade board regulations, all these regulations were pretty carefully considered) not only by the law officers of the crown but by the minister, and in many cases by his parliamentary assistant, and that they were not in any case the brain child of any one individual. Here there is no power on the part of anyone to make regulations. The regulations have to be adopted by the governor in council. The wartime prices and trade board particularly had power as a board to make certain orders. That, of course, is not the case here.
May I revert for a moment to the point raised by the hon. member for Vancouver South. I am advised by the treasury solicitor, who is in front of me, that the only power which the minister would have to delegate under section 6, paragraph (d)1, with the amendment as proposed, relates to the issue of the permits. There is no other power in the act which he is given and which he would have the power to delegate.


Howard Charles Green: Would the minister be willing to put in paragraph (d) that the power is only to apply to the issuing of permits?


Douglas Charles Abbott: It relates only to permits; it might relate to the detail in connection with the issuing of permits. It might cover a little wider territory than the actual signing of the permits. I have already proposed an amendment which excludes from its operation the exercise of this discretion conferred under paragraph (c). That must be exercised by the minister personally if the amendment which I propose carries; therefore I am informed that the remaining discretionary power in the minister as minister is in connection with the issue of permits that he can delegate, subject to his control and direction. But that is the only power given to the minister as a minister as distinct from what is to be done by order in council. Therefore, subject to check, I think my hon. friend's point is met.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: If a person or firm makes an application for a permit and is turned down, is there any appeal from that decision?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Yes, there is in this sense. If he is turned down in the ordinary routine course by the officials of the emergency import control division, then there is an appeal to the minister, and I have had a good many cases of that kind.


John Thomas Hackett: Under what section?


Douglas Charles Abbott: It does not have to be under any section, because I am the only one who has the power to issue permits. It is the

minister who does it. If the applicant is not satisfied with the action of the minister's subordinates he is entitled in every case to go to the top.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: If an applicant felt that he had something further on his case he could go to the minister?


Douglas Charles Abbott: It is being done every day.


John Thomas Hackett: That was the type of administration that was criticized I think in the Pioneer Laundry case. It was said that the appeal to the minister from the finding of his department was, in reality, not an appeal. I believe it was argued there that the discretion exercised had to be a judicial discretion. I do not see anything of that description here. I suppose that finding meant that reasons had to be given; that the department had to give reasons which would satisfy a court.


Douglas Charles Abbott: My hon. friend knows that the Pioneer Laundry case was a taxation case which related to the principles on which depreciation would be allowed. The finding of the privy council was, as I recall it, adverse to the crown. While the principle may have been the same, I think the circumstances are really quite different here. Here it is the power of discretion. The minister exercises his discretion almost as a judge, taking into account questions of fact, and in the case of quotas it is on a mathematical formula. There is really no discretion there at all, except to the extent that the governor in council may change the percentage or the basis on which quotas are issued.


John Thomas Hackett: May I ask the minister if the answer to the question put by the hon. member for Peterborough West should not be, no, there is no appeal?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Legally there is only one man who settles it, and he is the minister.


Wilfrid Garfield Case: There is no appeal from the minister.


Howard Charles Green: The minister may change his mind?


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is right. Even officials might change their mind. The hon. member for Vancouver-Burrard will remember the famous merry-go-round case.


Calvert Charlton Miller: A few moments ago the Minister of Trade and Commerce indicated that there might be 15,000 permits a month. Would that be under schedule III only?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.

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William Henry Golding: Is it the intention of the committee to permit paragraph (c) to stand? There is an amendment before the Chair.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I think it is desirable in any event, regardless of what happens to paragraph (c),


William Henry Golding: Is the amendment acceptable to the committee?


Mr. HAZEN:: Section 6 was not to pass until *we were given a copy of paragraph (c).


Douglas Charles Abbott: I have a few copies of the amendment here which I shall distribute.


William Henry Golding: Paragraph (c) stands for the time being.


Douglas Charles Abbott: We shall take up another paragraph.


William Henry Golding: Section 6 stands and we shall go on to section 7.


Howard Charles Green: May I ask a question about subsection 2 of section 6, which reads:
In this .act, "minister" means, with respect to the issue of permits for the imports of any goods, the minister charged by the governor in council with the administration of this act with respect to those goods.
Why is that section not drawn to give the Minister of Finance power over the goods listed in schedules I and II, and the Minister of Trade and Commerce power over the goods listed in schedule III? It would seem that the way the section reads now there could be changes made from day to day; one minister could- be given only half of schedule I, and all kinds of changes made. It would seem more sensible to define actually which schedules the ministers are to deal with.


Douglas Charles Abbott: The thought behind it was this. The intention at the outset is, of course, first, that the Minister of Finance will be charged with administering schedules I and II which relate to consumer goods, and the Minister of Trade and Commerce schedule III, which relates to capital goods. However, it was felt that perhaps it would not be well to name these ministers as such in the act. If amendments were made it might be desirable, for instance, that some other minister such as the Minister of Agriculture might be charged with restrictions on that type of goods. So that it was felt there could be no public harm in leaving it to the executive to determine which member of the cabinet should be charged at a given time with the administration of a particular section of the act. As the committee knows, at the present time, and so far as we foresee in the future,
schedules I and II, consumer goods, will be under the Department of Finance and capital goods under the Department of Trade and Commerce, which already has an export and import division.


Howard Charles Green: Is it the intention that in one schedule one minister may be responsible for half the goods and another minister for the other half? As this section is worded, that is possible. I suggest that at least the section should be so worded as to apply to schedules, so that a minister may be in charge of one whole schedule or a number of schedules. Is one schedule to be divided up among any number of ministers? Is that the intention?


Douglas Charles Abbott: No. The intention is that the schedules will be administered, I and II by myself and III by the Minister of Trade and Commerce. An order in council will have to be passed confirming that, and that will be published in the Canada Gazette and tabled in the house; but I think the sections should be left in such form that that could be changed by executive order rather than having to wait, in case parliament was not in session, for an amendment to the act. I do not believe that any publicity must; be given it. It is certainly not the intention to split up the schedules between two or three ministers.


Howard Charles Green: Then I suggest that the minister should move an amendment so that the section would read that in this act "minister" means, with respect to the issue of permits for the import of goods in any one or more schedules, the minister charged by the government with the administration of this act with respect to those goods, or with respect to that schedule. Then you put it on a schedule basis rather than on the basis of goods as it is at the present time.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I would have to consider that.


Jean-François Pouliot: I do not want to butt in, but if my hon. friend is through I will respectfully submit the following. In the first place, I renew the expression of respect for and confidence in the minister, and I believe that for the operation of this kind of legislation he could find in his department no better man than Mr. Taylor. He is fair and he does well. But regarding this section, we are going round and round. We are in a vicious circle and we are coming back to the same place. Formerly, each minister submitted his proposals to the cabinet and the whole matter was decided by the cabinet as a whole. Afterwards, during the war, there were committees of the cabinet, and now we are delegating the powers of the government to a single minister.

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An hon. MEMBER:: No; several ministers.


Jean-François Pouliot: No; a single minister at a time. Therefore the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Trade and Commerce, the Minister of Agriculture or any other minister will, in due course, have the powers of the whole cabinet, powers which were exercised before by order in council, to decide upon certain matters, and that minister will be given a blank cheque.
I submit that the work of the government should be done by the whole cabinet or a quorum of the cabinet, so that all parts of the country would be protected in the decisions reached by the cabinet. This is not a reflection upon any minister particularly. They are good men and they deserve all the confidence that has been given to any minister at any time. But I wish to consider the question from a broad point of view. Is it physically possible for any minister to decide personally all the questions that may arise regarding matters that are within the sphere of his department? It is a physical impossibility. Then, naturally, the matter will be decided by some minor officials in the name of the minister and the minister will be just a rubber-stamp for decisions made by some major or minor officer in his department. This is the situation as it stands, and as one who is a strong supporter of responsible government I cannot accept that kind of legislation.
Perhaps I shall be called regressive. They will say that I am not a modern, that I am obsolete when I say there are certain ancient things that we should keep in mind, things that are ageless. They do not belong to some other age because they belong to all ages. For example, there are certain fundamentals of law which were promulgated three thousand years ago and which are still accepted by the legal fraternity and by the bench in these modern times, and1 one of these principles is that of responsible government. The minister is for it, and I would be greatly surprised if the Minister of Trade and Commerce were not for it also. We are all for it. Then let us practise it.
There is a good way of being in order, Mr. Chairman, in discussing any part of this bill; namely, to move that some clause be struck out; the matter will be decided and anyone will have an opportunity to say anything he has to say. I forecast some time ago certain things that would happen, and today they have come to pass. But I was not the only one. There was a member of the press gallery, the president of the press gallery last year,

who wrote splendid articles in his paper, and I said what I had to say in the House of Commons. Now it has come true.
In these times of so-called austerity how is it that we can buy chocolates which are imported from Europe and which sell at $2 a pound? How is it that in these times of austerity we are offered certain biscuits at $1 a half-pound? These are times of austerity and there are other commodities that are needed. For instance, if we go to a store to buy a head of lettuce having five or six leaves, we pay thirty or thirty-five cents for it, or about five cents a leaf. They are good to look at but not to buy. Nothing has been said about that.
We cannot take all the individual facts with regard to all possible imports, I know; but I cannot understand how it is that certain imports are so expensive, for one reason or another. For example, a bottle of French brandy bought for SI.50 in France is sold in Canada at S6.50. It is very expensive, because we cannot buy brandy from the United States. And so on.
I am ready to accept any explanation which I can convey to my constituents to satisfy their minds about this legislation, because at present they are angry. I am sure the minister is not responsible for the drafting; but he is responsible for the bill, and I make that necessary distinction. I give him credit for anything for which I can give him credit. I sympathize with him. I regret that he has to sponsor this legislation. I will tell you more than that, Mr. Chainnan. I do not consider that I, as a Liberal party man, am bound by this legislation any more than I was bound by the foreign exchange control legislation, because I was never consulted about it. I consider that I am bound by the policies of the party to the extent that I, as a member, am consulted with the other members of the party and the decision is reaohed according to that of the majority of the party. Unless that is done, I do not consider that I am bound by any policy which comes before this house or which is promulgated or announced over the radio, unless I am a party to it. I shall be ready to stand by the decision of the majority who have made that policy. Inasmuch as I have the privilege of making my point before the majority or before all my party, then, even if the policy is not one with which I am satisfied, I have to stand by the party and accept it. But so long as that is not done, I do not consider that I am bound by the Foreign Exchange

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Control Act policy or by this act which is an amendment to it, because I had not been consulted about it when it came out.


Calvert Charlton Miller: I rise just to support the suggestion made by the hon. member for Vancouver South as to an amendment. It seems to me that I might add this further suggestion to the minister. I think the point taken by the hon. member for Vancouver South is well taken, because in the preceding sections the minister has the power to switch goods from schedule I to schedule II and schedule III and so on, but not back the other way.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Only by order in council.


Calvert Charlton Miller: Yes, by order in council. Under section 3 the minister can add additional goods to the schedules and so on. It seems to me that if the suggestions made by the hon. member for Vancouver South were followed and the amendment was worded so that you describe the power by schedules, you would be on much safer ground.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I do not want to argue the amendment because, without being offensive, may I say that I do not think it really accomplishes a great deal. If the committee feels that it would be clearer to specify for the time being which minister has charge of the particular schedules, I have no objection to that. Under the Transfer of Duties Act, of course, as the committee knows, it could be changed tomorrow morning. With that in mind, this amendment would probably meet the case. I will read it and ask one of my colleagues to move it:
That subsection 2 of section 6 of the bill be deleted and the following substituted therefor:
"In this Act 'Minister with respect to permits for the imports of goods (a) in schedules 1 and II means the Minister of Finance and (b) in schedule III means the Minister of Trade and Commerce."


Howard Charles Green: That is much better.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: It may be better, but it is still "pretty worse".


William Henry Golding: The committee has heard the amendment, moved by Mr. Howe. Does the committee agr^e to this amendment?


[Stage Direction]
Amendment agreed to.
William Henry Golding: Shall paragraph (c) carry?


Calvert Charlton Miller: I understood that this section was being held over for paragraph (c). Might I ask one more question of the minister, in spite of the possibility of being considered a nuisance to him tonight. Is it in the mind of the minister that we need to engage many additional employees? If so, will they be customs officials, or will they be under the civil service? Can he give us any indication at all as to what his intentions are in that regard?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am told that there will be a certain number of additional customs employees, or additions to the staff of the customs department at the outports. So far as the administration of the division here is concerned, some of the staff who were formerly with the wartime prices and trade board have been taken over. This is principally clerical staff who will be carrying on this work. Appointments since November 17 to February 9, 1948, are as follows: to the wartime prices and trade board, 86. I should have said that is a transfer from the wartime prices and trade board of 86. To the emergency import control division, 64; or a total of 150. Those are all now under the Department of Finance. The total staff of the emergency import control division today is 149, made up as follows: new appointments, 64; transfers from existing staffs, 85; making a total of 149.


Calvert Charlton Miller: Does that include any additional employees taken on in the other department, the Department of Trade and Commerce?


Douglas Charles Abbott: No. I have no figures as to that.


Calvert Charlton Miller: Were there any taken on?


Clarence Decatur Howe: We believe there will be no additional staff necessary for the reason that we have at the moment a parallel organisation issuing export permits.


Calvert Charlton Miller: Were all these new appointments under the civil service?


Douglas Charles Abbott: They are mostly clerks. We engaged them through the civil service commission.


Calvert Charlton Miller: Would they be temporary at the moment?


Douglas Charles Abbott: They are engaged by the board.


John Thomas Hackett: Does the minister's answer imply that there will be no additional staff required along the boundary?


Douglas Charles Abbott: No. I answered that I thought there would be some. There were some. There have been additions, I am informed.

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William Henry Golding: Is the committee now ready to deal with paragraph (c) of subsection 1? Shall this amendment carry?


John Thomas Hackett: No.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Even as amended the
clause may not 'be satisfactory to all those on this side, but certainly it is an improvement on the section as it appeared in the printed bill. So far as the amendment is concerned, I would say it is acceptable.


Douglas King Hazen: I do not want this amendment to be carried without going on record and expressing my opposition to it. There is not a great deal that I can say, and I realize that what I say, which will be little, will have practically no effect on this committee or at least on members who sit on the government side. I see little difference between section 6, paragraph (c) of the bill and section 6, paragraph (c) as amended. If you will turn to section 5, Mr. Chairman, you will see that the governor in council may make regulations,
(d) prescribing conditions to the issue of permits, and terms of, and conditions to permits or the permissions granted by permits, and terms of and conditions to the continuation of permits in effect.
Then, when we turn to the proposed amendment to section 6, subsection 1 (c), it reads that the minister, not the governor in council, may:
(c.) in particular cases or classes of cases, where it is advisable in order to ensure that
(i)	the import of goods by a person pursuant to a permit is carried on equitably in relation to the import of goods by other persons to whom permits have been granted, or
(ii)	goods imported pursuant to permits are distributed so as to be available equitably to consumers,
prescribe, from time to time, terms of and conditions to a permit or the permission granted in a permit additional to those prescribed by regulation.
The hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre, I think it was, earlier this evening pointed out the fact that we had been complaining of order by governor in council. Now we have piled on top of order by governor in council, power to give the minister the right to amend the orders in council as he sees fit. It seems to me that this is going too far altogether. As the hon. member for Stanstead said some time ago, the whole procedure is unconstitutional, and it seems to me that it should not be permitted for one instant. It should not be permitted in this or any other act. Under the proposed amendment, the words are, "in particular cases or classes of cases," but there is no definition in the act saying what

those words mean. I should like the minister to define those words for us and let us know just what he means by them. Further on, these words are used: "is carried on equitably;" that the import of goods by a person pursuant to a permit is "carried on equitably." WThat does he mean by those words? There is no definition in the bill, and I think we should have more light thrown on it. This afternoon and this evening I have been glancing through the report of a committee on ministers' powers, I think known as the Sankey report, made in 1932 by a committee of the British House of Commons. In the course of that report, which it quite voluminous and interesting, I find this:
The truth is that if parliament were not willing to delegate lawmaking power, parliament would be unable to pass the kind and quantity of legislation -which modern public opinion requires.
But it goes on to point out:
We doubt, however, whether parliament itself has fully realized how extensive the practice of delegation has become, or the extent to which it has surrendered its own functions in the process, or how easily the practice might be abused.
There are contained in the report certain recommendations, of which this is No. 2, at page 65:
The precise limits of the lawmaking power which parliament intends to confer on a minister should always be expressly defined in clear language by the statute which confers it, when discretion is conferred; its limits should be defined with equal clearness.
I submit that the section, with the amendment now proposed, does not define with any clearness the limits of the discretion it is proposed to confer on the minister. The terms could not be broader. There is no limitation whatever. Altogether apart from that, however, I submit that this legislation is vicious and unconstitutional, and I am not prepared to vote for it.
Amendment (Mr. St. Laurent) agreed to on division.
Section as amended agreed to on division.
On section 7-Customs officers' duty to
enforce.


John Ritchie MacNicol: A moment or two ago, in reply to the hon. member for Portage la Prairie, the minister gave the number of changes in the staff of the department in connection with the administration of this measure.


Douglas Charles Abbott: That was in Ottawa only, in the Department of Finance.

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John Ritchie MacNicol: Later on, I thought I heard the minister say that not many had been added to the staff along the border.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I said there were some. I understand that quite a number were added.


John Ritchie MacNicol: I was just going to say that I found the border posts cluttered up with officials. Is there any record of the number who have been taken on at the customs posts along the border as a result of this new legislation?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I would ask my colleague the Minister of National Revenue to answer that, if he will.


James Joseph McCann: Approximately 250 have been added to the customs officials all across the country, of whom 100 are women.


John Ritchie MacNicol: All across Canada?


James Joseph McCann: Yes; all coming under the civil service.


John Ritchie MacNicol: I suppose we cannot hope to ascertain what that is going to cost the country. I have been thinking perhaps the cost of the administration of these new regulations along the border will take away a good deal from what the minister hoped might be accomplished in the way of increased revenues.


Douglas Charles Abbott: We pay them in Canadian funds, though.


John Ritchie MacNicol: I suppose some day we shall be able to get the cost of the increased staff along the border and in Ottawa to administer this bill.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I imagine we shall have that when the estimates are brought down.
Section agreed to on division.
On section 8-Permit not transferable.


Wilfrid Garfield Case: I should like an explanation from the minister. This clause says "A permit is not transferable by the holder thereof to any other person," and so on. Does this mean that a person in business and holding a permit could not dispose of his business and transfer the permit? Are his hands tied so that he has no equity in the permit?


Douglas Charles Abbott: He can dispose of his permit and the quota will go with it if the purchaser buys the business as a going concern. The purpose of the section is to prevent trafficking in quotas, as distinct from the business itself.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: When I learned about this a couple of weeks ago I was informed by a friend that there was a certain amount of
trafficking in these permits in the city of Toronto, and he suggested that perhaps something should be done to stop it. Later, I was talking to him on the telephone and said that, on reflection, I did not know whether it would be worthwhile trying to take up the case here in Ottawa to see if I could have the practice stopped because, as far as I could see, it amounts to this, and this is why I mention it to the minister to see whether or not there is any value in retaining this section. A man who has a quota and, therefore, a permit to import a certain amount of textiles, let us say, can import those textiles if he wishes. If he does not want the textiles he may accept a bid, which may be quite substantial in money, for his permit. That would be breaking the law under section 8. On the other hand, if a man wants to profit by reason of the fact that he has a quota and, therefore, a permit, there is nothing in the law, and the minister is taking no steps, to prevent that man from importing the goods and turning them over to the other man who does not have a quota, of course at an advance in price. May I ask the minister if there is any difference between the two things, the man selling his permit and the man importing the goods himself, maintaining his quota and his right to future permits, and then selling the goods to someone who wants to make use of them, at a mark-up which would be exactly the same as the price he would have received had he sold his permit in the first instance? In other words, I should like to know the purpose of this section when it is so easily defeated.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I do not know; I have not given that aspect very much thought. Of course, as my hon. friend points out, there is nothing to prevent a man with a quota from bringing in the textiles, say, and if he does not want to merchandise them himself turning them over to somebody else at an appropriate profit, and letting the No. 2 man sell them. I am told by those who are charged with the administration of these quotas that the fact that this can be done does not lead to widespread trafficking in quotas, where a man might just go out and try to sell his quota to the highest bidder, and get out of business. He must stay in the business in order to avail himself of that quota. His quota is based upon his record of performance during the last year; so that I think in the great majority of cases the importer will continue in the business that he has been in, because in nine cases out of ten that is his livelihood.

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Harry Rutherford Jackman: The fact is that there are permits for sale, and I am told that the going rate is about ten per cent of the value of the imported merchandise. If they are going to traffic in these things, why not make it simpler and get the price down?


[Stage Direction]
Section agreed to.
On section 9-Report to parliament.
Mr. FLEMING:: Last night I asked the minister if he would give consideration to adding some further requirements to those found in section 9 with reference to the publicizing of grants of permits under the act. Could the minister give an answer tonight?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Figures could certainly be made up either monthly or quarterly as to the number of permits issued. I do not know offhand that there would be any objection to that. Certainly, when the house is sitting information could be obtained any day by asking a question in the house.. It was not thought, in drawing up this section, that provision needed to be made for the publication of quarterly statements. However, there would be nothing secret about the information. It would be information which could and should be made available at any time it is asked for. Probably I could give an undertaking that monthly statements could be prepared as to the number of permits issued. I do not know that it would be wise to spell out in the bill all the details which should be given in those statements; but certainly any information which could be of use to the general public and would not be damaging to individual traders could be made available.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Would the minister be prepared to include in that report statements of commodities covered by the permits?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Yes.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Would it not be practicable to issue those statements monthly? The purpose of the publicity would be better served if it were on a monthly basis. Would the minister consider putting it in part II of the Canada Gazette, which contains orders in council and orders passed under similar powers?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Would my hon. friend leave that with me? I hesitate having to say what one should put in the bill about it. I readily agree that the fullest possible information should be given as to the number of permits issued and the categories they cover. I should hope, however, that the details might be left to be worked out by those who are

administering the measure. Then, if my hon. friend is not satisfied with what is done, we shall be here for three or four months yet and I would invite him to get after me in the house about it.


Donald Methuen Fleming: If I have an opportunity, under the rules of the house. But there might not be adequate opportunity. Before the committee concludes its deliberations on this bill, -would the minister be prepared to give some detailed indication to the committee as to what undertaking he might give in this respect?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I shall do that. I have already placed on Hansard the number of permits issued to date, and I placed on Hansard today three tables showing the countries affected, and the commodities. That sort of information could be given at regular intervals. I shall give some consideration to the matter and make a statement, before the bill has passed through all stages, as to what I suggest might be proper information, and at what dates it might be made available.


[Stage Direction]
Section agreed to.
On section 10-Offences and penalties.
Calvert Charlton Miller: I wish to state an objection to section 10 as briefly as I can. It looks to me as if it is another one of those sections under which, in prosecutions, accused persons will not have a very good1 chance of succeeding. What I object to in respect of these prosecutions-and it is becoming altogether too prevalent not only in connection with federal statutes but also in connection with provincial statutes-is that the old British practice of proving mens rea, or guilty mind, or guilty knowledge, is too often being ignored. I maintain that it is being ignored1 purely and simply because of laziness. I think it is laziness on the part of crown officials or police. Surely to goodness, it is not any more difficult to prove a man guilty of an offence of 'this type than it is to prove him guilty of any other criminal offence.
For years and centuries it has been the right of every man to be presumed' innocent until he is proven guilty. And he can be convicted only if he is proven guilty of an offence with a guilty mind, with the intention of doing wrong. Beyond any question of doubt, cases which have gone to the courts of appeal now hold that a mere innocent infraction of a section such as this makes a man, a citizen of this country, liable to the heavy penalty provided by the section.

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So far as I am concerned, I would1 never vote for a section like this until the minister agreed to put in a safeguard incorporating the old principle of mens rea, stating that that principle must be proven; that the burden of proof must be assumed1 by crown officers, and that a man who innocently disobeys one of these regulations-and there were thousands of them under the wartime prices and trade board-must have mens rea proven against him. Under the wartime prices and trade board I believe there were about 35,000 orders in council under which people could be prosecuted. It was absolutely ridiculous to imagine that a private citizen of this country; yes, it was ridiculous to imagine that even lawyers could have any possible conception or knowledge of a half, a third', a tenth, a twentieth or even a hundredth of those regulations. And the poor man could be brought up in court-and I 'have defended lots of them-and the court might know that man was innocent, and I would know he was innocent, so far as his mind and heart were concerned. But they were convicted, and were virtually made criminals with criminal records, although, in their hearts and minds, they had no intention of wrongdoing against the laws of this country.
I think we must take a stand; and I plead with members of this committee, and especially the legal members, to give some thought to this matter. It is getting too serious. Citizens of this country should not have to run the risk of innocently disobeying laws of which they may have no knowledge whatsoever. The promulgation of them is such that it could not be possible for them to have any such knowledge. Those people, in my humble judgment, should not be convicted of offences against the laws of this country and be tagged virtually with criminal records.
I strongly object to section 10 in this bill unless the burden of proof of guilt is clearly, by the section, placed upon the crown officers.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I bow to my hon. friend's superior knowledge of criminal law, with which I cannot claim to be expert. However. I feel it might meet his objection if the word "knowingly" were inserted, so that it would read, "every person who knowingly" does so and so.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Consciously.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I think the word "knowingly" would be preferable.


Calvert Charlton Miller: That would do it.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I anticipated an objection similar to this one. Analogous provisions are found throughout the criminal code in connection with the excise regulations, narcotics, and other matters, and a good many of them are statutes which have been on the statute books for a long time. Broadly speaking, the fundamental rule is that the burden of proof rests upon the person who is asserting guilt in a criminal case. There are two exceptions which are recognized in English criminal law. The first is where it requires a person to prove a negative, which is frequently exceedingly difficult, although proof of positive facts may not be so difficult. The second case is where facts are peculiarly within the knowledge of the other party.
Anyone here would know whether he had a permit or not. In these acts which require a permit, and this applies to a greater number of provisions in the Excise Act, the Narcotic Drugs Act, and in the criminal code, the onus is on the person charged with the offence to show that he does possess a permit. That has been particularly necessary in cases where, as here, permits are issued from one side of the country to the other by customs collectors acting as agents for the foreign exchange control board, or by some other government agency. I am quite willing to add the word "knowingly" to meet my hon. friend's point, so that the onus would be on the crown in the case of an innocent person who inadvertently contravenes the law. I do not think anybody can quarrel very much with that. I think that should go a long way toward overcoming the objection.


Calvert Charlton Miller: Yes, so far as I am concerned.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Then I will ask one of my colleagues to move the amendment.
Mr. ST. LAURENT: I move that section 10(1) be amended by adding after the word "who" in the first line the word "knowingly".


[Stage Direction]
Amendment agreed to.
John Thomas Hackett: The enactments which are found in the Customs Act and in the Excise Act and in most of the acts in which the crown is the victim of illegal practices are drawn in such a way that the burden of proof is shifted to the accused. I suggest to the minister that legislation of that type, which is age-old, and with which people have had years to become acquainted, is hardly on a parity with these rules and regulations and orders in council which can come into existence without notice and frequently, as hon. members will recall, without even the knowledge of the minister. I do not wish to be facetious or to trifle with the difficulties of administration which confront the treasury benches at this time; but everybody must
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admit that legislation such as is being passed tonight is an invitation to irregularity, an invitation to the smuggler, an invitation to those who will profit improperly by this enactment. We are not seeking to protect a body of malefactors; but there is something that should be protected, and that is the innocence of a person who may be improperly charged with breaking the law.
The law is going to be the regulations, modified as indicated by the minister. It is absolutely impossible for the people at large, and I was going to say for the ministry itself, to keep abreast of all these regulations and their modifications. Modifications will take place in one part of the country which will not be known in the other part for some time. We are exposing the population of Canada to a loss of confidence in the courts and in the judiciary if we place upon any person who is apprehended the burden of showing he is not guilty. It seems to me that, in the Customs and Excise Acts, it would be better for everyone if the rules were abandoned and if we relied upon definite proof of ill-doing before assuming that a crime had been committed.
We have here section 10(1) (a), (b) and (c), which provide that anyone who fails to comply with the act or a regulation under it shall be guilty of an offence. We know how volatile are these regulations, and how heavy are the penalties imposed upon a person who has broken them. We are placing it within the power of an individual to make the law. and to change it without notice of any kind, and then we place upon the individual charged with its infraction the burden of proving his innocence. That is a drastic rule to apply at any time, even when the law is old and the people are well acquainted with it; but to apply that rule to legislation, passed in camera and arising out of an emergency, is so harsh as to imperil all respect for the law and to create ill-will and suspicion in the people as a whole.
I suggest to the minister-and I tell him that I have no confidence in the act itself- that he modify this severe and penalizing aspect of the act and that he treat any infraction of it as an ordinary infraction of the law is treated, and that he place upon him who lays the charge the full burden of proving intent to breach the law.
Section 10 as amended agreed to.
Section 11 agreed to.
(Mr. Hackett.]
On section 12-Burden of proof on person charged.


Douglas King Hazen: I move, Mr. Chairman, that section 12 be deleted.


William Ross Macdonald: That would hardly be in order. It is a negative motion. If the clause does not carry, it is deleted automatically.


Douglas Charles Abbott: The remarks I made a few moments ago with respect to the burden of proof apply to section 12. There are similar provisions in the Excise Act and the Narcotic Drugs Act and scattered through the criminal code. The point which the hon. member for Stanstead has made is that these infractions should be treated differently, because a good many of the provisions will be in the form of regulations. I invite the members of the committee to look at section 12. In the first place, there is a burden on the crowm. The burden is this. The crown will have to prove, when a person is charged with an offence, that the person did an act for which a permit is required under this act. That is the burden of proof which the crown has to discharge. The crown having done that, then it is within the knowledge of the accused whether he has a permit or not; and I refer to the well recognized principles of British criminal law, that where the facts are peculiarly within the knowledge of the other party, and where the rule, if it were strictly followed, would require a .person to prove a negative, which is an exceedingly difficult thing to do, the burden can be shifted.
Under the administration of this particular act, where a man is charged with importing goods without a permit the crown will have to prove that he imported the goods; that they were goods of a category which required a permit, and it would be alleged that he did not have one. The burden would then, be shifted to the accused to show that, in fact, he did have a permit and that he did knowingly contravene a provision of the act. I think that is quite in conformity with a long line of statutes where circumstances are similar to this, and I do not think it is breaking new ground at all. I believe it is an entirely appropriate provision for a statute of this kind and I feel confident that it should remain in the statute.


Calvert Charlton Miller: I am inclined to think there is some merit in what the minister has said; I do not know whether that will strengthen his conviction or not. I wTas won-

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*dering whether lie would not consider striking out of section 12 the following words which Appear in line 5:
- . . or had not been exempted from the applicable provisions of this act.
And also the following words in the last line but one:
... or had been exempted from the applicable provisions of this act.
I do not see the point in these exemption words. If the minister will consent to an amendment to that extent I think it might be satisfactory to hon. members.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I do not think there is any objection to that, because any exemptions would have to be by regulation, and under these circumstances I think these words can lie safely taken out. I would be glad to have one of my colleagues so move.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I so move.


William Henry Golding: Does the amendment carry?


[Stage Direction]
Amendment agreed to.
William Henry Golding: Does the section as amended carry?


Agar Rodney Adamson: Surely, if this section carries it gives mandatory authority to all officials, such as customs officials, to prosecute minor infractions without giving the accused an opportunity to testify. A man goes over to the United States and brings back a small quantity of the embargoed goods. He is adjudged guilty without the opportunity of really defending himself, is he not?


Douglas Charles Abbott: No; there would be no such provision. A charge would have to be laid in the regular way. The accused would have to be summoned before the court; the charge would have to be read to him. The crown would have to prove that he had imported the goods, and then the burden of proof would be on him to show that he had a permit. He would have to show either that he had a permit or that he had some other legal ground for bringing in the goods; but he could not be condemned unheard. There is no suggestion of that. This section merely relates to the burden of proof; and the crown having established that an act has been done for which a permit is required, the onus is then shifted to the accused to show that he, in fact, has a permit.


Agar Rodney Adamson: The crown must establish that the act has been done before the accused can be prosecuted.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Yes; the crown must establish affirmatively that something has been imported for which a permit is required, and then the man who has the goods must show that he has a permit.
Section as amended agreed to.
On section 13-Coming into force.


Calvert Charlton Miller: Can the minister not now give us the date?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Well, it is a little difficult. We want to have the regulations all completed and drawn so that they can be available concurrently with the coming into force of the act. Perhaps I had better not risk a prediction. I am always very careful about that. I will say as soon as possible, as soon as we can have the regulations drafted the act will be proclaimed and the order in council will lapse.


Wilfrid Garfield Case: The act is actually in effect now, is it not?


Douglas Charles Abbott: No. The import restrictions are now being effected under an order of the foreign exchange control board, passed pursuant to the Foreign Exchange Control Act, and as soon as this special statute comes into force, is proclaimed, then these orders will be revoked.


[Stage Direction]
Section agreed to.
On section 14-Foreign exchange control regulations revoked.
Donald Methuen Fleming: the committee is being asked to do here is retroactively to validate P.C. 4678. So far as I am aware, the minister has not given the committee the text -of the memorandum which he received from the law officers of the crown purporting to find in the provisions of the Foreign Exchange Control Act authority in favour of the governor in council to establish by order in council the kind of restrictive regulations which are embodied in P.C. 4678. If that opinion is sound, and certainly the government has in the past three months gone a long way in the supposition that it has the power to pass P.C. 4678, then I do not think the government ought to come to parliament at this late day and say, will you please validate, as far as validation is necessary, everything that has been done under the terms of P.C. 4678? If the opinion is sound, and if the government have followed the proper course in putting into effect a restrictive program of this kind, more restrictive than any single program ever put into effect in this country in peacetime before, without the slightest reference of it to parliament, then I think they should be left to support what they have done on the basis on which they have purported] to justify it, namely, the opinion of the law officers of the crown that they 'have this power under the provisions of the Foreign Exchange Control Act.
If there is doubt on the part of the government as to the powers that it purported to exercise-and I can only read this section, in part at least, as proceeding on the basis that the government has doubts as to whether it has acted properly and validly-then, certainly, before the measure proceeds further, the government should come forward and tell parliament frankly that it has such doubts and account for the fact that it has proceeded in the past three months in the way it has.
Several days- ago, in reply to a question from the hon. member for Calgary East, the minister, as I recall his remarks, and I was in the house at the time, said that an opinion had been sought by himself last August, and that the opinion had been given at least in the first instance orally and had been followed by a memorandum. I understood that the minister was considering making the memorandum available to members of the house.


Douglas Charles Abbott: No. I said I would show it to the hon. member for Calgary East and I did.


Donald Methuen Fleming: I have not seen it.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I said, at the time it was asked for, I did not know whether it was proper for legal opinions from law officers of

the crown to be produced in parliament. I discovered later that it was not; but my hon. friend said he would like to look at it himself. Knowing what a good lawyer he was, I had no objection to showing it to him, and I did give him a copy of the memorandum the other day.


An hon. MEMBER:: Between friends.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Perhaps that was improper; I do not know. In any event, I did it.


Donald Methuen Fleming: I might express the view in passing that I do not see why opinions of the law officers of the crown, which are as important as this one is in purporting to find in favour of the government's power to proceed in this extraordinary way, should not be tabled in the house. It will be recalled that at the last session, when the opinion of the law officers of the crown was sought in connection with the wheat board matter, that opinion was given to the house by the present Minister of Justice, and certainly in a matter as important as this I do not think the house would be encroaching upon the realm of privileged communication between the law officers of the crown and the government in asking that a legal opinion, an opinion on a legal question whether there was power under the Foreign Exchange Control Act for the government to do what it has sought to do under order 4678, should be made available to the house.
However, to come back to this question, that opinion, giving full respect to the source of it -the law officers of the crown-was proceeded upon in breach of a solemn undertaking given to this house by the then minister of finance in the 1946 session when he introduced the Foreign Exchange Control Act in this house. Here was a solemn undertaking given to the house or, if you like, a representation made to the house by the then minister of finance, the present Minister of Justice, as reported1 at page 2547 of Hansard of 1946:
We have no intention of -using this exchange control legislation to restrict anything but certain types of capital movement.
What has been done under P.C. 4678 is to throw that undertaking or representation out of the window completely, to ignore it, a representation that was solemnly given to parliament, a representation that certainly entered into the consideration given that bill by many members. The committee will remember that the house spent some time on the bill when it was up in 1946. In the banking and commerce committee its sections were reviewed with some care, and that undertaking of the then minister of finance was an under-

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taking upon which the banking and commerce committee and this house proceeded in their deliberations upon the bill. Had that undertaking not been given, I am sure the bill would have had a different reception both in this house and in the banking and commerce committee. And to my hon. friend the present Minister of Justice may I just say in passing that I find it very difficult to understand how he can submit to continuing to be a member of the present government when the present government has completely ignored and repudiated the solemn undertaking which he gave the house in the session of 1946.


Douglas Charles Abbott: My hon. friend should be careful of his language. There was no solemn undertaking given by any minister of the crown.. My predecessor as minister of finance said, and I made a somewhat similar statement in the banking committee, that it was not the intention of the government to use the Foreign Exchange Control Act for the purpose of imposing import restrictions on imported goods. I dealt with it at some length in my broadcast address when announcing this policy and have done so subsequently. I may be criticized for it, but I take exception to the statement that the then minister of finance gave a solemn undertaking, because he did no such thing.


Donald Methuen Fleming: I wish to state quite as positively, if I may do so, that the statement I have quoted, given by the present Minister of Justice and then minister of finance, was a solemn statement given to the house. It was part of a prepared statement.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am saying that it was not a solemn undertaking. That is all.


Donald Methuen Fleming: It was part of a prepared statement which he submitted, to the house when he brought the bill in and asked the house to give it second reading.


Douglas Charles Abbott: No one is contradicting that.


Donald Methuen Fleming: And it was on the strength of that assurance, that the government would not use this legislation, the Foreign Exchange Control Act, to restrict certain types of capital movement, that the house proceeded to deal with the bill as it did. That assurance underlay all the deliberations of the house on that measure. It underlay all the deliberations of the banking and commerce committee on the measure. There can be no gainsaying that fact. It was an undertaking of the highest importance to the house and to the banking and commerce committee, and surely, when important legislation is introduced and well considered statements, prepared statements,
are submitted to the house by ministers speaking in the name of the government, statements containing assurances as plain and as solemn as that, this house is entitled to believe that the government will not repudiate such a promise or such an undertaking without first coming to the house. But there was nothing of that sort in this case. The government sent two ministers on the air, two ministers after the Prime Minister, to announce in effect that, regardless of this undertaking, regardless of this solemn assurance, the government, without coming to parliament and saying so much as "by your leave", would blindly go ahead and by order in council, in the face and the teeth of its undertakings, put into effect in peacetime the greatest restrictive program, the greatest measure of strangulation applied to our economy, ever imposed in time of peace.
The measure before us, Bill No. 3, would be bad enough under the best of circumstances. That the government should ask parliament to clothe it with powers so dictatorial, so vast, powers that can be so arbitrarily exercised, as the government in this bill is asking parliament to clothe it with, is bad enough. But when that measure follows by some months the putting into effect by the government of an order in council so drastic in its effect, and so completely in the teeth and in defiance of solemn government undertakings, I say, Mr. Chairman, that not only has a grave wrong been done to parliament, but there has been a complete slap in the face to all fundamental conceptions of democracy.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Question.


Donald Methuen Fleming: The Minister of Reconstruction and Supply does not like any references to democracy. Perhaps if he listens to a few more he will begin to grasp a few of the rudiments of democracy.


Douglas Charles Abbott: What are they?


Donald Methuen Fleming: One cannot hope in his case to take him beyond the elementary rudiments, but if we could only get him as far as that, what a complete transformation we might hope to see in the rifjjht hon. gentleman. If we could only inculcate in him some elementary appreciation of what democracy means, what a change there would be; if we could inculcate in him some elementary appreciation of what the rights and the prerogatives of parliament mean. But of course it is of no use. Any such attempt would be perfectly futile.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am almost as good as you are.
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Donald Methuen Fleming: The right hon. gentleman (Mr. Howe) said yesterday-and this was in connection with a request under schedule III -that a minister's written letter was binding on the government. Here is :one representation that appears in Hansard, uttered in this house; true, it is not over a minister's signature, but it is certainly out of his mouth and is as solemn an undertaking as could be given by a minister on behalf of the government. Yet they simply tear it up as a scrap of paper.
If anything further could be done by way of showing complete disrespect for parliament it would be for the government, after all this-after treating parliament with disdain, with contempt, through all these months-to come back now to ask parliament to pass a section which among other things-and I do not say this is the only effect of it-purports to give statutory validation retroactively to everything the government have purported1 to do under P.C. 4678. If they are so confident that they have the powers under the Foreign Exchange Control Act to do what they have done in, through and by virtue of P.C. 4678, why have they not the courage to stand by their convictions and see it through? But apparently, notwithstanding all the talk, all the radio broadcasts, all the speeches in the house, and all that has been said by way of the sufficiency of the opinion of the law officers of the crown, we come back to this situation, that the government, three months after the Minister of Finance made his radio speech-and that was made three months ago tonight-has to come back to parliament now and ask parliament to give retroactive statutory validation to the things they have been doing under P.C. 4678. If you can imagine any more complete farce than that, Mr. Chairman, I should be glad1 to hear about it.
Having said that, I should like to say just a word about some of the other things in the section. I hope the minister will be prepared to take the committee into his confidence on the point I have just sought to establish. In connection with the concluding provisions of this section, I should like to offer one or two brief observations. In view of the routine that has been established with boards and officials, I can appreciate that it is desirable that, where applications have proceeded up to a point, when this act comes into effect it would be a grave hardship on many of these people if they were compelled to start all over again. To that extent I think there is much to be said in favour of the concluding provisions of this section. Where persons have been compelled, in order to carry on business, to submit to the provisions of P.C.

4678, certainly they should not be compelled now to back up and start all over again. To that extent I think we shall need some such provision as is found in the concluding lines of section 14.
Then, in conclusion-and I think this is my final word on the section, Mr. Chairman-the provisions beginning at line 39 are, I think, ambiguous; they certainly need clarification. The sentence starting at line 39 reads:
. . . and all acts or things done before the commencement of this act while the sections and appendices aforesaid-
That is, of P.C. 4678.
-were in force, which if done pursuant to this act would be valid, are hereby confirmed as if done under this act.
Is that intended to refer simply to the acts or things done by or on behalf of the minister under P.C. 4678, or is it intended to apply generally to things done by the public or by everyone who has had occasion to make application for a permit under any of the provisions of the act? I do not know which of the two meanings the sentence is intended to have; but, whichever it means, I seriously urge on the minister that it requires clarification.


Douglas Charles Abbott: To deal with the points raised by my hon. friend, down to line 39 to which he has referred in the section, the provisions are the usual continuation provisions, and I do not think any serious objection could be taken to them on any ground.
His second point was as to the interpretation of the latter part of the section, which reads:
. . . and all acts or things done before the commencement of this act while the sections and appendices aforesaid were in force, which if done pursuant to this act would be valid, are hereby confirmed as if done under this -act.
Obviously these could only be acts which parliament could confirm. I would think that would apply to acts done by the minister or by the officials of his department or acts done by the public in accordance with the regulations or with the section of the foreign exchange control order and the appendices referred to. I had not given the interpretation point any consideration before my hon. friend raised it, but the language is certainly comprehensive: "all acts or things done before the commencement of this act." Of course it might have been much shorter, after putting the continuation provisions in it, to have just said that this act shall be deemed to have been in force since such and such a date.


William Ross Macdonald: Shall the section carry?


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Carried.


Donald Methuen Fleming: On division.
Section agreed to on division.

Foreign Exchange Conservation
On section 15-Expiration.


Edmund Davie Fulton: It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, that section 15 is the final insult in an unwise and damaging act, to every provision of which strenuous objection has been taken by the official opposition and by nearly all opposition parties. The objection has perhaps been most forcefully expressed by the hon. member for Eglinton in the remarks he has just made; so once again I shall not recapitulate everything that has been said. Particularly as the minister himself has agreed that emergency legislation of this sort putting complete discretion in the hands of the ministers is undesirable and dangerous, I think we are entitled to expect that some definite time limit might have been included in the last section of this act, which is section 15; or, if not a definite time limit, at least that after a certain time, if it were necessary to continue it, the government would come back to parliament and ask by way of motion that the act be continued, as has been done with regard to every other emergency act that I have had experience with since I came here, and as was done with respect to others that I have read. Would the minister consider changing section 15 to that effect?


Douglas Charles Abbott: The reason why no time limit is put in this act is that, by its very nature-with prohibitions, quotas and a permit system; particularly schedules I and II relating to prohibitions and the quotas-if a definite time were fixed, or if it were thought that the act might expire at a certain definite time, obviously it would make for speculative opportunity on behalf of some people. It is almost in the nature of a budget change. It seems to me that certain sections of this bill need to be handled almost on the basis on which one makes changes in existing tariffs, and there should not be any possibility of anyone having any real advance notice as to when that is likely to take place. That is why no definite time is fixed in this act as to when it shall expire; and I think there are the most compelling reasons why there should not be any such time fixed.


Edmund Davie Fulton: I would point out that there is a definite time limitation in the Foreign Exchange Control Act, which I believe is March 31, 1949.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Yes, I know there is, and I objected quite strongly to that time limit. I think my objections were good. They were not quite as compelling as in this case, because there is not the same opportunity to speculate in goods, but at the time I felt and said both in this house and in the committee that I thought it was a mistake to put a definite time limit in that act.


Edmund Davie Fulton: I do not recall the details of the minister's objection, but obviously it was felt that it was not strong enough to over-ride the greater objection of leaving these powers for an indefinite period in the hands of a board, in that case, and in the hands of one or two ministers in this case.


Douglas Charles Abbott: This is by proclamation, not by a minister.


Edmund Davie Fulton: It transforms what is
described in the title as emergency legislation into permanent legislation, unless there is some such provision. I should like to see a provision that at the end of a year, say, the government shall come back to parliament for an address to continue the act. Failing that, could we have a provision included providing that by joint resolution of both houses the act could be terminated, or something to that effect to make it quite clear that parliament has the right, when hon. members think the time has come, to terminate the legislation?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Well, it seems to me that this is even better than a joint resolution. It could be terminated even between sessions; it would not be necessary to wait until parliament was in session. I feel quite strongly that, because of the nature of the prohibitions imposed here, no term should be fixed for the operation of this act. Of course it is always open to parliament to move a resolution repealing it.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: One reason the minister has given the committee for not having a definite date of expiration, or an ultimate date, is that speculation might take place under the act. At first blush I am at a loss to understand how you could possibly speculate in articles which are not available, articles which are prohibited. Would the minister explain what he means by speculation?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Well, you could buy goods, accumulate them in the United States, ready to bring them in.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: May I ask how you could buy goods when you cannot get any money?


Douglas Charles Abbott: You could probably get them on credit.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: You cannot incur loans in the United States. Another of the restrictions Canadian businessmen are up against is that they cannot incur loans in the United States where money is much cheaper than it is here. As far aa I can see and as far as the minister has explained, there is no possible way in which speculation could take place under this act. That is the only reason he has given for not putting a definite termination period in this

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legislation. I therefore move, seconded by the hon. member for Dufferin-Simcoe, that section 15 be amended to read:
This act shall expire upon a date not later than fifteen months after the coming into force, unless renewed for a further period by parliament.


John Thomas Hackett: I shall not detain
'[DOT]he committee with many observations. I zrerely point out that in this act we are taking two additional steps toward the complete annihilation of parliament. We have been under a system of order in council. We have graduated from that to legislation by a minister. That is the first step which should be pointed out as characterizing this legislation. The second is that all emergency legislation enacted up to the present time has been for a short period, to cope with an emergency. Here we are giving to legislation passed to meet an emergency the characteristics of permanency. For the first time we are delegating the powers of parliament for an indeterminate period. We are legislating parliament out of existence for all time so far as the subject matter of this legislation goes.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I do not think I can add much to what I have already said.


Donald Methuen Fleming: The minister has not dealt at all with the question of putting a ceiling limit on the duration of the act. What he has said in effect is that we should retain the power to repeal the act by proclamation. But he has not touched on the point of putting a ceiling limit on the act.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I intended to, if I did not. I intended to express the view that I do not think we should indicate in this act how long it is likely to remain in force.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Why?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I think that would be creating an improper impression. I do not think we should do it; and, as I said before, it would lend itself to unwise speculation.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Here we are being treated by a minister of the crown to an expression of opinion which can be nothing more than that, because, if it is not a guess, the minister will elaborate to the committee so that we may understand what he means. How can you speculate under this act?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I cannot add anything to what I have already said.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: But you have not said anything at all, except t1 guess.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am under no obligation to give my hon. friend lessons in any particular subject. He is entitled to his opinion; I am entitled to mine.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Certainly the minister is under an implied obligation, though it may not be found in the textbooks, to give a committee of parliament such information as he has at his disposal for the guidance of parliament in dealing with these measures. The minister has at his beck and call the paid servants of the crown. He has them in front of him now; he has them in his offices. How are members of parliament, members of this committee of the whole, to know whether or not there is any justification for a particular section or for the bill itself unless the minister gives us some information? I made a reasonable request of him, asking why he wants this section. He wants it so that he may have unbounded power without stint as to time. He gives a reason. I challenge that reason, and he says I am not entitled to ask for information, that I can go elsewhere for it.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I have given the reason. My hon. friend can accept it or not, as he pleases.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: You say because of speculation, and I ask you to point out how speculation can take place under this act.


Douglas Charles Abbott: My hon. friend would know that better than I.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: I dare say I should, because I have made a study of the matter. That was why I gave my opinion and asked the minister if I was not right, because he is or should be in a position to know. But as far as one can see, he is merely guessing at these matters and asking the committee to accept his opinion. He has not a scintilla of evidence, not the substance or even the shadow of a fact. All he is asking for is an indefinite time, as he did when the Foreign Exchange Control Act went through, but which the other place had the good sense to change. He has given no reason whatsoever here. Surely there is a reason. We hope to be reasonable people in this committee; yet the minister will tell us nothing whatever on which to base our decision.
Amendment (Mr. Jackman) negatived: yeas, 29; nays, 40.


William Ross Macdonald: I declare the amendment lost. Shall the section carry?


Agar Rodney Adamson: I had! told the minister that I had intended to move an amendment

Foreign Exchange Conservation
similar to that moved by the 'hon. member for Rosedale. I do say that surely this bill cannot be operated after the lapse of the foreign exchange control measure as there is no need for it then. Would it not be wise to insert in section 15 the provision that this measure will terminate with the expiry of the foreign exchange control measure? Surely they run hand1 in glove, and one is not enforceable without the other.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I had not considered that aspect of the matter. However, I would say it is my view that this measure could stand completely on its own fee't, without any assistance from the foreign exchange control measure. I do not think the two are necessarily complementary.


Agar Rodney Adamson: If you lift any embargo on exchange, surely you make extremely difficult the enforcement of this act.


Douglas Charles Abbott: The administration might be more difficult. People might be able to pay for the goods, but they could not get them into the country. It might not do them much good.
Section agreed' to.
On schedule I.


Stanley Howard Knowles: I should like to say a few words with respect to schedule I.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Before my hon. friend
makes his remarks, may I point out that the printed bill has been distributed, with the changes in the schedule to Which I have referred1. However, that has never been formally moved. The reprint which hon. members have before them contains the revised schedule; but, in order that we might be strictly within the rules. I believe I should ask one of my colleagues to move that schedule I, as it appeared in the original bill which was read a first time, should be deleted, and that the attached schedule be substituted therefor. Hon. members do not need to look at different prints; they have the reprint with the amended schedule in it.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I move:
That schedule I to Bill No. 3 be deleted and the attached schedule substituted:
In this schedule where a tariff item of schedule "A" to the customs tariff is listed without being preceded by the word "ex" all goods included in that tariff item shall be deemed to be included in this schedule and where a tariff item is listed and preceded by the word "ex" only the goods described thereafter are deemed to be included in this schedule, and words and
5849-85J
expressions in this schedule have the same meaning as in the schedules to the customs tariff.
7	Meats, fresh, n.o.p.
8	Canned meats, poultry or game.
9	Poultry and game, n.o.p.
9a Quails, partridges, and squabs, dead or alive, n.o.p.
10	Meats, prepared or preserved, other than, canned.
16 Eggs in the shell.
18a Peanut butter.
22 Preparations of cocoa or chocolate inpowder form.
27 Coffee, roasted or ground, when not imported direct from the country of growth and. production.
29a Tea, n.o.p. (not imported direct from the country of growth and production.)
31 Ginger and spices, ground, n.o.p.
33 Nutmegs and mace, ground.
36, 37 Compressed yeast.
38 Yeast cakes.
42a Table salt.
43 Condensed milk.
ex 45, 46 Prepared cereals foods.
ex 47 Beans, n.o.p. (except soya beans.)
48 Peas, n.o.p.
63, 63a Rice, cleaned.
65	Biscuits, not sweetened.
66	Biscuits, sweetened.
67	Marcaroni and vermicelli.
79b Flowers and foliage, natural, cut, whether in designs or bouquets or not, n.o.p.
87 Vegetables, fresh, in their natural state: asparagus, green beans, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, carrots, beets, n.o.p., cauliflower, eggplant, celery, cucumbers, lettuce, parsley, green peas, rhubarb, spinach, tomatoes, watercress, whitloof, endive, and fresh vegetables, n.o.p.
89 Vegetables, prepared, in air-tight cans or other air-tight containers.
90e Vegetables, frozen.
91	Soups, soup rolls, tablets, cubes, or other soup preparations, n.o.p.
92	Fruits, fresh, in their natural state: apricots, cherries, cranberries, peaches, pears, plums or prunes, strawberries, raspberries, loganberries, berries, edible, n.o.p., quinces, nectarines.
94	Grapes, fresh, in their natural state.
95	Cantaloupes and muskmelons.
95a Melons, n.o.p.
96	Fruits, fresh, in their natural state, n.o.p.
96a Kumquats, fresh.
97	Plantains, pineapples, pomegranates, guavas and mangoes.
99b Fruits, dried, desiccated, evaporated or dehydrated, n.o.p.
99d, ex 99e Dates, dried, unpitted.
99g Apricots, nectarines, pears and peaches* dried, desiccated, evaporated or dehydrated.
ex 104a, ex 105 Fruit pulp, other than passion fruit pulp, with sugar or not, and fruits, crushed or frozen.
Foreign Exchange Conservation

108 Honey in the comb or otherwise, and imitations thereof.
ex 109 Nuts of all kinds, in the shell, n.o.p.
HO Cocoanuts, n.o.p.
123a Crabs, clams or shrimps in sealed containers.
124, 125, 126, 127, 128, ex 123, ex 133 Oysters.
130 Turtles.
138	Maple sugar and maple syrup.
139	Glucose or grape sugar, glucose syrup and corn syrup, or any syrups containing an admixture thereof, n.o.p.
143 Cigars.
143a Cigarettes.
152c Grape juice in containers of more than one gallon capacity each.
ex 179 Labels for cigar boxes, fruits, vegetables, meats, fish, confectionery or other goods or wares.
ex 180, 181a Pictorial postcards, greeting cards and similar artistic cards or folders, finished or unfinished.
ex 184d, ex 169, ex 170, ex 171, ex 184a. Periodical publications, unbound or paper bound, consisting largely of fiction or printed matter of a similar character, including detective, sex, western, and alleged true or confession stories, and publications, unbound or paper bound, commonly kuown as comics, but not including bona fide supplements used with newspapers.
Provided, that the decision of the Minister of National Revenue as to whether or not any publication is included in the foregoing description shall be final and conclusive.
ex 192, ex 198, ex 199 Tarred paper and prepared roofings (including shingles), sheathing, insulation (not including fibreglass) building board, chipboard, newsboard, strawboard, testboard, corrugated board, and all other similar boards manfactured wholly or in part of vegetable fibres (not including electric insulation board, shoe board, automobile board, book binders' board and pressboard) bristol board, artists' board, photograph mounting board, picture matting board and showcard board; flock coated board or paper; wax coated paper; blotting paper not printed.
192b Sandpaper, glass or flint paper, and emery paper or emery cloth.
192c Roofing and shingles of saturated felt.
ex 193 Paper sacks or bags of all kinds, printed or not (but not including those made from twisted paper).
194	Playing cards, in packs or in sheet form, n.o.p.; cards and sheets partly lithographed or printed, for use in the manufacture of such playing cards.
195	Paper hanging or wall papers, including borders or bordering.
ex 197, ex 197b, ex 198, ex 199, ex 181, ex 509 Towels, napkins, table covers, tray covers and doilies, of paper; fancy shelf and lace papers; paper handkerchiefs; facial tissues and toilet paper, including such materials in jumbo rolls; cups, dishes or plates, forks, spoons, and drinking straws, made of paper, cardboard, or of vegetable fibres; paper envelopes; correspondence and printed letterhead papers, not including plain unprinted typewriter or copying papers; creped tissue paper and manufactures thereof; wrapping paper (including box eover-

ing paper and wrappers) printed, embossed or otherwise decorated; Christmas seals, stickers, tags and enclosure cards, printed, embossed or otherwise decorated; card and other games, score reckoners, score pads, tallies and place cards, of paper or cardboard; festivity, carnival and celebration supplies and decorations of paper or cardboard, including costumes, hats, caps, headbands, masks, horns, serpentines and confetti; gummed paper; blank books; photograph mounts manufactured from paper or paper board.
197b Wrapping paper of all kinds, not pasted, coated or embossed.
ex 192, ex 197, ex 198, ex 199 Papers and paperboards or fibreboards the surface of which is in two or more colours or is embossed or otherwise decorated.	.
ex 199b Empty containers wholly or partially manufactured from paperboard or fibre-board having affixed thereto paper the surface of which is in two or more colours, or is embossed or otherwise decorated.
226 Candles.
234 Perfumery, including toilet preparations, non-alcoholic, viz., hair oils, tooth and other powders and washes, pomatums, pastes and all other perfumed preparations, n.o.p., used for the hair, mouth or skin.
235b Liquorice in rolls or sticks, not sweetened.
247	Liquid fillers, anti-corrosive and antifouling paints, and ground and liquid paints, n.o.p.
248	Paints and colours, ground in spirits, and all spirit varnishes and lacquers.
249	Varnishes, lacquers, japans, japan driers, liquid driers, and oil finish, n.o.p,
251 Gold liquid paint.
ex 257 Writing ink, but not including drafting, artists' or instrument ink. '
ex 271 Lubricating oils composed wholly or in part of petroleum, in containers of less than 25 Imperial gallons each.
ex 272 Refined petroleum jellies and oils, for toilet, medicinal, edible, or similar purposes, in containers of less than 25 Imperial gallons each or of less than 250 pounds each in weight, including the weight of the container.
ex 272a Petroleum greases and lubricating greases, n.o.p., in containers of' less than 25 Imperial gallons each or of less than 250 pounds each in weight, including the weight of the container.
323 Silvered glass, bevelled or not and framed or not, n.o.p.
ex 326 (i) Decanters and machine-made tumblers of glass, not cut nor decorated, n.o.p.
ex 326g High thermal shock resisting glassware, but not including industrial or laboratory glassware, or glassware parts imported by manufacturers for production use in their own factories.
354a Kitchen or household hollow-ware of aluminum, n.o.p.
354b Kitchen or household hollow-ware of nickel, n.o.p.
ex 362c Nickel-plated or electro-plated cutlery and table flatware, ex 414 Typewriters.
ex 414a Dictating machines, transcribing machines and cylinder shaving machines.

Foreign Exchange Conservation
ex 414c Adding machines.
415a Refrigerators, domestic or store, completely equipped or not.
ex 415b Washing machines, domestic, with or without motive power incorporated therein, ex 415e Clothes wringers, domestic, ex 415d Sewing machines, domestic, with or without motive power incorporated therein, ex 427 Outboard motors.
ex 427h Motion picture projectors for use with films less than one and one-eighth of an inch in width, with or without sound equipment, and motion picture screens adapted for use therewith.
432b Hollow-ware, of iron or steel, coated with vitreous enamel.
433 Baths, bathtubs, basins, closets, lavatories, urinals, sinks and laundry tubs of iron or steel, coated or not.
ex 440a Pleasure boats of all kinds, ex 443 Apparatus designed for cooking or for heating buildings (not including parts).
444b Lamp shades, n.o.p., and shade holders, ex 445 Electric light fixtures and appliances n.o.p. (not including industrial electric light fixtures, or parts).
ex 445a Electric flashlights, ex 445b Incandescent electric light lamps, ex 445d Radio receiving sets and cabinets and chassis therefor.
ex 445e Electric and galvanic batteries, n.o.p. (not including parts or separators), ex 445i Electric sad irons, ex 445j Electric dry shaving machines.
449 Steel wool, including steel wool impregnated with soap or in retail packages containing a cake of soap.
451e et al Slide, hookless or zipper fasteners and parts thereof.
ex 462 Cameras, not including those for professional use.
465 Signs of any material other than paper, framed or not; letters and numerals of any material other than paper.
468 Bird, squirrel and rat cages, of wire, and metal parts thereof.
503	Planks, boards, clapboards, laths, plain pickets and other timber or lumber of wood, not further manufactured than sawn or split, whether creosoted, vulcanized, or treated by any other preserving process, or not.
504	Planks, boards and other lumber of wood, sawn, split or cut, and dressed on one side only, but not further manufactured.
504a Ponderosa pine lumber (pinus pon-derosa) and California sugar pine lumber (pinus Lambertiana), not further manufactured than planed, dressed, or jointed, for use in Canadian manufactures.
505	Planks, boards, deals and other lumber of wood, not further manufactured than planed, dressed, jointed, tongued or grooved, n.o.p.
505a Hardwood flooring, tongued and/or grooved, or jointed, viz: beech, birch, maple and oak.
ex 506' Dcor and window frames sash.
506a Clothespins and parts thereof.
5C6b Wooden doors of a height and width not less than 6 feet and 2 feet, respectively.
507	Single-ply, sliced or rotary-cut veneers of rosewood, mahogany or Spanish cedar, not over five-sixteenths of an inch in thickness, not taped nor jointed.
ex 507a Single-ply, sliced or rotary-cut veneers of oak or walnut, n.o.p., not over five-sixteenths of an inch in thickness, not taped nor jointed.
507b Veneers of wood of any kind, not over five-sixteenths of an inch in thickness, taped or jointed.
507c Plywood made of two or more layers of veneer or lumber of wood, glued or cemented together, but not further manufactured.
507e Plywood made of two or more layers of wood glued or cemented together and faced with metal on one or both sides.
508	Mouldings of wood.
512, ex 506 et al Picture frames, photograph frames and mirror frames, of any material, ex 514 Coffins and caskets, ex 515 Show-cases of all kinds.
519 House, office, cabinet or store furniture of wood, iron or other material, and parts thereof, not to include forgings, castings, and stampings of metal, in the rough.
519a Wire screens, wire doors and wire windows; cash registers; window cornices and cornice poles of all kinds; hair, spring and other mattresses; curtain stretchers, furniture springs and carpet sweepers.
597 Pianofortes and organs, ex 597a Phonographs, graphophones and gramophones.
602,	603 Fur skins, wholly or partially
dressed.
ex 618b Passenger automobile tires.
624	et al Bead ornaments, and ornaments of alabaster, spar, amber, terra cotta, composition, or other material except china or porcelain; fans of all kinds; statues and statuettes of any material other than porcelain or earthenware.
625	Caps, hats, muffs, tippets, capes, coats and cloaks of fur, and other manufactures of fur, n.o.p.
629 Umbrellas, parasols and sunshades of all kinds and materials.
647 Jewelry of any material, for the adornment of the person, n.o.p.
ex 648 Precious and semi-precious stones (other than diamonds) whether genuine or synthetic: pearls, whether genuine or cultured, and imitations and simulations thereof.
ex 651 Buttons of all kinds, n.o.p. (except recognition buttons).
ex 655 Fountain and ball point pens, ex 655a Propelling pencils, ex 689a Mineral wool, but not including fibre glass.
ex 711 Synthetic casings for meat, ex 711, ex 362c, ex 427, ex 446a et al Goods enumerated hereunder, but not including goods entitled to entry under tariff items enumerated in Schedule II:
Domestic water heaters; public address and communication systems; humidifiers (but not including industrial humidifiers); chemical permanent waving preparations;
Soda fountains, bars; ice-cream cabinets and beverage cabinets; beverage dispensing and mixing equipment; gasoline pumps;
Foreign Exchange Conservation

Punch boards and pin-ball games; vending machines, games, amusement devices, phonographs, radios, musical instruments, soales, parking meters, locks and lockers, coin-, disc-, or token-operated;
_ Cigarette or cigar lighters (but not to include lighters provided for in Tariff Item 438(c));
Air-conditioning units and apparatus designed for household or office use:
Electric mixers, ironers and dish-washers, designed for household use;
Cases, boxes, bowls, baskets, bottles, dishes and trays adapted for personal, household or office use, or for the packaging of goods for retail sale, of which the component of chief value is copper, brass, bronze or electro-plated metal, not including industrial containers .unsuitable for retail sale;
Ash trays and receivers; desk sets and bases -or holders for blotters, pens or pencils; book-ends; paper weights and paper knives; andirons, rscreens, tongs and other furnishings for fire-*jplaces; door knockers;
Christmas tree decorations of all kinds, including lights and fittings therefor; vases and jardinieres;
Electric heating pads and blankets, juice extractors; amusement rides and devices; hair waving and drying machines; display decorations; lipstick holders; electric fans; floor polishers; atomizers; pencil sharpeners; radio cabinets, finished or unfinished; door chimes; binoculars and opera glasses; domestic garbage disposal units; ski racks; watch straps and bracelets; bowls, trays and dishes of wood.
ex 703 (b) Goods enumerated elsewhere in schedules I and II, except goods to which paragraph (c) of subsection two of section three of this act applies.


William Ross Macdonald: Is the motion carried?


Stanley Howard Knowles: No.


Donald Methuen Fleming: May I ask that you call the schedules at least page by .page, if not item by item, because there will be individual items hon. members will wish to discuss.


William Ross Macdonald: The hon. member for Eglinton suggests that the schedules be called page by page. Does that meet with the approval of the committee?


Howard Charles Green: I think that would only lead to confusion; they should be called item by item.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Better still.


Douglas Charles Abbott: All right, but it would be [DOT]a long procedure.


William Ross Macdonald: Has the committee
decided upon what procedure it will follow?
I shall carry out its wishes. We are dealing with schedule I.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Perhaps I should explain that my purpose in rising was to move an amendment to schedule I to delete three items, namely items 87, 92 and 96, which are the main items covering fresh fruits and vegetables.

If the committee prefers to follow the suggestion 'made by the hon. member for Vancouver South, namely to call the items one by one, then it would simply mean that we would call a yote when we reached those three items. May we have a decision as to wdiat procedure we shall follow?


Douglas Charles Abbott: The total imports of those three items were valued at $17,000,000. When you come to vote on it, bear that in mind.


William Ross Macdonald: I would suggest that we should call the schedules page by page, and see how we get along by that method. If it does not work satisfactorily we can try some other method.


Howard Charles Green: I would point out that when tariff items are being passed it is done item by item. These schedules are based on tariff items, and I submit that there is no precedent or rule providing for dealing with items page by page. The procedure ever since I have been here has been to take them individually. Not only is that the proper procedure, but also from the common-sense standpoint it is the most orderly way to proceed and will prove to be the most expeditious.


William Ross Macdonald: The hon. member for Eglinton suggested the other way.


Donald Methuen Fleming: I said page by page, if not item by item. I would prefer to have it item by item.


William Ross Macdonald: Then, I shall call the schedules item by item. Schedule I, tariff item No. 7.
Customs tariff-7. Meats, fresh, n.o.p.


Howard Charles Green: In respect of these items
would the minister give us the figures? I believe the hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario asked the other day that that information be prepared.


Douglas Charles Abbott: We have the information on any individual item. We could probably give it.


Howard Charles Green: Would the minister give it on each item as it is called?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I shall do my best.


Agar Rodney Adamson: And would the minister give the period for which the figures are given?


Douglas Charles Abbott: The information I shall now give will be an example of what is available. From scheduled countries we imported $2,000 worth of fresh beef and veal, and $1,000 worth from non-scheduled countries, making a total of $3,000. Of fresh pork we imported $767,000

Foreign Exchange Conservation
worth from scheduled countries; that is, dollar countries. Then, of fresh meats, not otherwise provided for, we imported $2,000 worth from scheduled countries. And of edible offals, fresh, which come under this tariff item, we imported $170,000 worth from scheduled countries.


Agar Rodney Adamson: What is the base period?


Douglas Charles Abbott: The twelve months ended June 30, 1947.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-8. Canned meats, poultry or game.
Howard Charles Green: Would the minister give us the figures for each item?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I can give them, but it would take considerable time. Could we not have the information printed in Votes and
Proceedings'!


John Ritchie MacNicol: Put it on file, so that we shall not have to take up the time of the committee in listening to figures.


Douglas Charles Abbott: All this data is a matter of public record. It is to be found in information supplied by the bureau of statistics in trade reports. Mind you, that covers another period, and the information would have to be extracted. It might be more convenient for hon. members if I were to place it on record. It would be necessary to take the last six months of 1946 and the first six months of 1947 from the figures supplied by the bureau of statistics. Those are, of course, available.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Put them on Hansard.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I could do that, but they are very lengthy. However, if the committee feels it is necessary we could put them on Hansard. What I now hold in my hand is on the prohibited list, and is an extract from published figures.
As we go through this list, if there are any particularly significant ones hon. members could ask for the information, if they are especially interested.


Howard Charles Green: Perhaps the minister could put the figures on Hansard and then, as he suggests, if any member is interested in a particular item he could get the figures.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Has the minister the figures for the months preceding November 18? [DOT]


Douglas Charles Abbott: We have not extracted those, but they are, of course, available. The dominion bureau of statistics publishes all these figures, which are made up from the import returns, and anyone experienced in
using these figures could take this bluebook and get the figures for any given period. This is a long and complicated table, but perhaps it had better be printed somewhere, although I had thought it might not be needed. It contains the imports from scheduled and non-scheduled countries for the year ending June 30, 1947-


Gordon Knapman Fraser: What I was trying to get at was what was brought in before November 18 and what came in after that date. Some came in after that date because the goods were in uninterrupted transit before that date.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Someone asked what our latest figures were. The figures for December will, I understand, be available next week. If the committee wishes, this table might be printed as an appendix to today's Hansard. [See page 1339.]


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Agreed.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Items 8, 9, 9a and 10 agreed to.
Customs tariff-16. Eggs in the shell.
Howard Charles Green: Could the minister give us the figures on that?


Douglas Charles Abbott: There were $245,000 of imports from scheduled, that is dollar countries, in the base period.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Items 18a and 22 agreed to.
Customs tariff-27. Coffee, roasted or ground, when not imported direct from the country of growth and production.
Agar Rodney Adamson: I understand that coffee in the bean or ground can be imported direct from the growing country, but that this schedule does not permit such coffee from any other countries. Roasted coffee or prepared coffee must be imported direct from the country of origin. This item does not include raw coffee. The coffee exchanges are still functioning, and raw coffee and coffee in the bean come in through the New York exchange.


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is correct.


Agar Rodney Adamson: But roasted coffee or prepared coffee must be imported direct from the country of origin. Are the countries of origin, which are nearly all South American republics, not still in the scheduled dollar area? I know that all the Central American countries are.


Douglas Charles Abbott: This schedule prohibits the importation of roasted and packaged coffee.

Foreign Exchange Conservaiion


Howard Charles Green: The minister did not answer the hon. member's question with regard to South American countries. Are they being classed as scheduled1 or non-scheduled countries?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Most of them are non-scheduled countries. There is no restriction here on the importation of coffee beans or raw coffee. It applies only to packaged or roasted coffee, which, as a rule, I do not think is brought in from the country of origin.


Agar Rodney Adamson: No; but if it was brought in from the countries of South America where it was grown and if it was packaged there, it would be allowed in under this schedule, despite the fact that that country might be a schedule country.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Under tariff item 28 we import coffee beans which are processed or roasted, and that tariff item is not on the prohibited list.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Items 29a, 31, 33, 36-37, 38, 42a, 43, 45-46, 47, 48, agreed to.
Customs tariff-63, 63a. Rice, cleaned.
Gordon Knapman Fraser: Why does the minister find it necessary to prohibit rice from coming into Canada?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Only cleaned rice is prohibited.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Practically all our rice comes from the United States.


Douglas Charles Abbott: The total imports were $204,000 in the base period, all from the United States.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Was that cleaned or uncleaned?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Cleaned rice only.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: How much uncleaned came in?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I have not the figures here, but uncleaned rice is not prohibited.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: I know, but have you the figures on that?


Douglas Charles Abbott: We can get that information.


Howard Charles Green: Why this different treatment between cleaned and unmilled rice?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am advised that the greater part of our uncleaned rice comes or did come directly from the country of origin, Burma, in former days. Now it sometimes

comes from the United States. It is a cheaper way of getting it. It saves United States dollars to bring it in uncleaned and process it here.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: We get little uncleaned rice from Burma now. Does not most of it come from the United States?


Douglas Charles Abbott: It does at the moment, but uncleaned is a cheaper way of bringing it in and have it processed here.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: For some years we have been getting it from the United States.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Since the beginning of the war.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: And even before that.


Howard Charles Green: Is there still a control on rice? I understand that there was some sort of international control. Is there a control now?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I do not think rice is on international allocation now.


Howard Charles Green: Is that control still in effect? Just what is the situation?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am informed that there is no such control. As the committee probably knows, about the only things that now remain under international allocation are oils and fats.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: The reason I brought this matter up is that rice has been fairly hard to ' get. Even if you have to pay the present prices, rice is a cheap food and is easy to prepare. Therefore I do not think it should be on this list.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Rice is not on this list. We can bring in all the uncleaned rice that can be obtained, and process it here. This relates only to a comparatively small quantity of cleaned rice.


Howard Charles Green: I would suggest that the minister look into the whole rice situation. The effect of the present provisions is that only two or three mills in Canada can handle rice. They get all the rice business. For some time, cleaned rice has been prohibited.
I suggest that the minister look into the whole situation with regard to rice.


Douglas Charles Abbott: If the committee is interested in rice I have some figures here. In eleven months of 1947 uneleaned, unhulled rice was imported to the extent of $2,217,302.


Howard Charles Green: What year is that?


Douglas Charles Abbott: The year 1947, eleven months to the end of November. That is the

Foreign Exchange Conservation
latest figure we have. In the base period cleaned rice imported from the United States amounted to only $204,000; therefore one can see that the great proportion of the rice which is used in this country entered in an uncleaned or unhulled form.


Howard Charles Green: I think that is because of the continuation of the wartime controls. Can the minister give us figures for the years before the war and some idea of the comparative amounts of cleaned and uncleaned rice?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I have figures for three typical years before the war. Rice cleaned amounted to $194,000 for the first year and $211,000 in the second year, or a total of $405,000 in these two years. I beg your pardon. The three-year average before the war from both scheduled and non-scheduled countries was $405,000.


Howard Charles Green: Of the cleaned rice?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Of cleaned rice, yes. I have no figures for the other.


George Randolph Pearkes: Rice forms a staple food of many of the oriental Canadian citizens on the Pacific coast. Can the minister assure us that there are adequate quantities of rice coming in to look after the British East Indians and the Chinese in British Columbia?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am sure that adequate quantities of rice are coming in. There is no restriction on what has always been the major type of rice imported into the country, namely, the uncleaned or unhulled rice, which is processed here, and no restriction is put on it. The only class we are restricting here is the comparatively small quantity of cleaned rice which was imported from the United States.


George Randolph Pearkes: It is the uncleaned rice which is used by the oriental.


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is right; it is cleaned and processed here in Canada.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Items 65, 66 and 67 agreed to.
Customs tariff-79b. Flowers and foliage, natural, cut, whether in designs or bouquets or not, n.o.p.
Howard Charles Green: Can the minister give us the figures for this item?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Yes. There were $364,000 worth under that item in the base period and $2,000 from non-scheduled countries.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-87. Vegetables, fresh, in their natural state: asparagus, green beans, brussels sprouts, cabbage, carrots, beets, n.o.p., cauliflower, eggplant, celery, cucumbers, lettuce, parsley, green peas, rhubarb, spinach, tomatoes, watercress, whitloof, endive, and fresh vegetables, n.o.p.
Stanley Howard Knowles: Mr. Chairman, as I
indicated earlier, had we taken schedule I all at once, I would have moved an amendment asking that this item be deleted. Since we are now taking the schedule item by item, all I can do is to ask the committee to vote down item 87, which has to do with fresh vegetables. I remind the committee that when we were on second reading of this bill we from this corner of the house indicated the precise reasons for our objections to the bill. One of the reasons which we indicated at that time was the government's unwillingness to reconsider its ban on fresh fruits and vegetables. The reply of the minister to that point when he concluded the debate on second reading was that it did not invalidate the principle; that it was only a detail which we could deal with when we got to committee.
Now that we have come to this detail in the committee, I hope that we shall deal with it fairly and objectively and not just have it pushed through. In fact, it seems to me that this item and also item No. 92 are items on which the government ought to permit a free vote of the committee. I point out, Mr. Chairman, that there are many items in the schedule which we in this group and other members of the committee might have sought to make an issue out of, but we accept the general principle that the government has to do something along the line of restricting imports to overcome our shortage of United States dollars. In other words, we are not going through the schedule and picking out item after item so as to upset the whole program; but we are picking out these two items, fresh fruits and fresh vegetables, because we believe they are important to the health of our people.
The minister has already today made remarks to the effect that we did not have these things in the wintertime in Canada twenty-five or fifty years ago. I submit that that answer is not good enough. The fact is that during the past quarter of a century, and especially during the last century, the age to which Canadians live has been extended, and it just may be that, in part, that is due to what we have learned about nutrition. No one will deny that from a nutritional point of view it is exceedingly important that we have fresh fruits and vegetables in this country, particularly so in view of the wintry climate that we have in Canada. I would suggest that we
Foreign Exchange Conservation

have no way of telling what injury we may do to the health of the Canadian people in years far distant by the action of this committee if the majority supports these two items and cuts down on the quantities of fresh fruits and vegetables that are available to our people. When I indicated a moment ago that we were prepared to make an issue out of these items, 87, 92 and 96, the minister gave me a figure as to what the total amount of these three items came to last year. I think he said $17,000,000.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Approximately $17,000,000 for out-of-season vegetables, not fruit.


Stanley Howard Knowles: I believe that the figures which the minister has given with regard to this whole program of import restrictions is something of the order of $300 million. I agree that if we were to go through the list and pick out item after item it would total $50 million, $100 million or $200 million, and we would then certainly be defeating the whole program of the government; but $17,000,000 does not upset the program that the government is trying to put through; and I submit it is more important that this committee concern itself with the health of our Canadian people. I know that I am speaking for hon. members in all parties, for all of us have received strong representations from individuals and from organizations back home. This is another of those occasions where I feel the government should permit a free vote of the committee. I am sure that if a free vote were permitted and hon. members voted the way they know the people back home wanted them to we would delete item 87. We would do the same thing with items 92 and 96 when we get to them. Mr. Chairman, I call upon the committee to vote down item 87.


Solon Earl Low: May I ask the minister a question? Could not substantial quantities of the products mentioned in item 87 be brought in from	the	British	West Indies	and	other
countries?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am told not. We can get from	the	British	West Indies	and	other
countries fruits which are under schedule II, under the quota. There is no effective limitation at all. Onions come from Bermuda. These are quotas, and there is no effective limitation on the import of onions from Bermuda.


Solon Earl Low: Tomatoes?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Tomatoes we have allowed in from the Bahamas under the special hardship clause. There are none available from the Bahamas because we have taken the crop.

What the situation may be next year it is hard to say. That is true of Montserrat and Jamaica.


Humphrey Mitchell: I have listened to the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre. Like myself, he has been to Great Britain, and I understand that he is greatly in favour of the planned economy they have in that country. The last time I was there I never saw an orange; I never saw imported vegetables; I never saw the things one sees in vast quantities in Canada. And I speak not as an authority; I am repeating statements made by the Ministry of Food in Great Britain, when I say that the British people have never been healthier. I think that in a comparative sense it can be said that we are well off in Canada, and I do not think it is a great hardship, for a few weeks in the year, in order to protect our economy, for us to deny ourselves these things that we got along without, at any rate when I first came to this country, which is not very long ago. I think that is a fair statement to make. Comparatively speaking, the British people are in the same position as ourselves, for they are trying to protect their currency and they have found it necessary to deny themselves in this way for years, ever since the outbreak of the war; nevertheless the British people, it is said, are healthier today than they have ever been.


Mr. CLEAVER:: I come from the centre of one of the most important sections in Canada growing fruits and vegetables, and I want to suggest to my hon. friend who objects to this item that the amount involved in out-of-season fruits and vegetables-he is only giving half the picture-is closer to $40,000,000. I admit at once that, on account of the suddenness with which the emergency came upon us, our growers have been caught out of their stride, but I want to assure him that the Ontario and British Columbia fruit and vegetable growers will supply him and his family with all the fresh fruits and vegetables they can eat. It is true we are short of cabbages and celery and all these things now, but that is only because the emergency came upon the country in an out-of-crop season and there was no opportunity for the growers to prepare for it. You will have all the cabbages, carrots, beets, celery, spinach and all these other vegetables next winter, grown in Canada. I do not think anyone's health will suffer because we are denied strawberries three or four weeks ahead of time or denied asparagus three or four weeks ahead of time. Our asparagus is better than the United States asparagus, if you wait for it.

Foreign Exchange Conservation


Mr. CRUICKSHANK:: British Columbia has been mentioned. I dio not think the . Fraser valley can supply any whitloof-I do not know what that is-and Saskatchewan may have to 'be denied watercress for a few weeks in the year.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: The minister said the other day that carrots would 'be allowed1 in. I understand that in Ottawa they are in Short supply and tlhe minister's home town will be out of carrots this week. I agree in part with what the hon. member for Halton has said. This emergency was thrust upon the people of Canada, and if thie farmer had known three or four months before, he would have been able to supply the market. He should have been told. Even at the present time, the truck farmers do not know what the program is for next year, and they will not be able to supply the market unless they are informed at once so that they can buy the seed to plant this year; because, as the Minister of Agriculture will tell you, the seed is generally bought either in December or January, and it is getting late now to buy seed to supply the people of Canada with the fre^h vegetables they need. Fifteen years ago the farmers of Canada supplied enough vegetables to the people of Canada right until April. They were stored in their basements. We have rhubarb which is now imported, or was imported from the United1 States.


An hon. MEMBER:: Nonsense.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Pardon me, it was, in the winter. But rhubarb for winter consumption was first grown in Canada, and first grown by the uncle of the hon. member for York East in Hamilton, Ontario, in his basement and shipped from Canada to New Y'ork. On the menus there it appeared as fresh rhubarb imported from Canada. I do not agree that this whole list of things should be cut off in item 87. There are some of these things we can do without; but what I am afraid of is that if this is wiped, out, when our own farmers are bringing in their crops next summer, or when, they are about ripe, the government will allow an influx, a flood of things from the United States, as they have done in the last few years.


An hon. MEMBER:: Shame.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Yes. Strawberries have been mentioned. Strawberries have flooded this country just a few weeks before our own Canadian strawberries have gone on the market. They killed the appetite of the Canadian people for our own strawberries, and
our own producers were not able to get a proper price. If our own farmers are given proper protection we shall have enough vegetables in Canada, but they demand protection and should have it. I think the Minister of Agriculture should get together with *the Minister of Finance and state t'he policy in regard to vegetables, and state it at once.


Charles Elwood Stephenson: With reference to the statement of the hon. member for Halton, that we can supply in this country a lot of these fresh fruits and vegetables which we are importing from the United States, I have asked a question two or three times in the house, and I suggest to the hon. gentleman that he put it to t'he government. Perhaps they will answer him, but they will not tell me. Can these growers in Canada be given an assurance that this program will not be limited and that the United States product will not come here and flood this market after our growers made a,n effort to produce t'he things we need? Will he ask the government that?


Hughes Cleaver: I have discussed the
problem thoroughly with our growers and I am told that there is no need at the present time for any such assurance. The growers will grow to the fullest extent of their capacity to take care of the Canadian public for the first part of the crop. We have two crop seasons; and so long as our growers have an assurance not later than the thirtieth of April, they will produce all the vegetables needed for the Canadian public next winter. I have already suggested to the minister that it would be in order to give such an assurance, and between now and the first of May you can rest assured that it will be repeated.


Charles Elwood Stephenson: The first of May will, be too late.


Hughes Cleaver: No, it will not be too late.


Charles Elwood Stephenson: The growers must start to make preparations.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: They have to buy fertilizer and seed.


Hughes Cleaver: Our growers do not wait until Monday to buy the fertilizer they need on Tuesday.


George Randolph Pearkes: It is not a question of waiting until Monday to buy fertilizer. We on Vancouver island are sowing vegetable seeds now, in the month of February. I appreciate the government's difficulty. I see their desire to save a considerable sum of money. I also appreciate the point of view put forward by the hon. member for Winni-
1336

Foreign Exchange Conservation
peg North Centre. The health of this country is threatened if the people cannot get sufficient fresh vegetables. Surely the answer is simple. Surely one of the ministers of the government can assure the vegetable growers of this country that for this growing season, whether the vegetables are sown in the month of February or in the month of May, they will be able to harvest their vegetables and supply the people of Canada without having unfair competition placed upon them by the sudden opening of the market to United States vegetables. I am certain-and I have discussed the matter with vegetable growers this year; in fact, I discussed it last Christmas-that they are prepared to make a considerable outlay of capital, bring more acreage under cultivation, invest in newer equipment, so that they can cultivate their vegetables in sufficient quantity to supply the people of Canada. They are prepared to do all that if they can be given some reasonable guarantee as to the security of their market. I ask for this year that the government, if they want to save that amount of money, at least assure the vegetable growers now that they will not be subjected to unfair competition at harvest time.


Mr. COTE (Matapedia-Matane):: I had not intended to speak in this debate, even though I represent a rural district and have been a member of the committee on agriculture and colonization. Having listened to the hon. member for Nanaimo, I should like to know if it is possible for him to give us for all Canada, with the exception of Victoria and Vancouver island, a sort of formula by which it would be possible to bring in cucumbers, tomatoes and so on during the winter months.


George Alexander Cruickshank: Move to British Columbia.


Stanley Howard Knowles: I should like the Liberal members of the house to realize the position that the country is getting into under this whole program. The Minister of Finance has protested strongly against our claims that this whole bill was protectionist in nature. Once or twice he said it was the highest form of protection.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I have not protested. I myself have said it was highly protectionist.


Stanley Howard Knowles: The minister said both things.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I have not said both things. From the beginning I have said that it is highly protectionist.


Stanley Howard Knowles: In answer to the hon. member for Vancouver-Burrard, the minister said it was the highest form of protection. But to me, on second reading, the minister said that it was not intended to be protectionist; that it was intended to be restrictive.


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is right.


Mr. MACDONNELL (Muskoka-Ontario):: All things to all men.


Stanley Howard Knowles: We have a proposal that these fresh vegetables be prohibited at the present time. The hon. member for Halton gets up and assures us-and I have no doubt he knows of the assurance that he is giving- that the vegetable grower's in his part of the country can step up their production to meet this changed situation. It means that a year or two from now, those vegetable growers, having built up their production-whether economic or otherwise-behind this highest form of protection, will be coming to the Liberal government and asking the Liberal government to keep this kind of protection in effect.


George Alexander Cruickshank: AVe shall still be in power.


An hon. MEMBER:: Don't brag.


Stanley Howard Knowles: The Liberal party may still be in power but its Liberalism will have vanished completely. The hon. member for Fraser Valley who, I think, believes to a considerable extent in free trade, will find it difficult to continue to support a government which not only has brought in the highest form of protection but finds itself in the position of having to keep that wall of protection there. It is the same old story that we have had throughout the whole history of Canada. I am talking to my Liberal friends now, not to the Tories. The Tories like this. It is the same old story of protection for an infant industry, and then the infant industry needs that protection for all time. In my view, there are many other ways in which this government has discriminated against the agricultural industry of this countiy that it must overcome. But this is not the way. This, in the long run, reduces the standard of living of the Canadian people; it reduces their purchasing power; and when the standard of living of the Canadian people goes down, the section of the community which suffers the must is the agricultural section. This course is completely "il-Liberal", and the demonstration we have had tonight shows that the minister's claim that this is just a temporary measure is just so much eyewash. It is the

Foreign Exchange Conservation
beginning of a wall of protection; and once you get it built up, the tendency is for the people who have enjoyed that protection to want it to be built still higher. I submit that that argument falls to the ground and that the argument with regard to the health of the Canadian people is the one which this committee should consider. I think we should vote down this section. I agree with those who have said that there are one or two things in it such as watercress, endives, eggplant and so on which, so far as I know, are not of particular importance from the point of view of health. But I can see the great difficulties that we might get into in this committee if we went through the twenty odd items and tried to make amendments to strike out a few of them. This section deals with the banning of fresh vegetables in general, and I think the members of this committee should take this opportunity to speak for their constituents and vote it down.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: 
Humphrey Mitchell: Oh, no.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: I do not know how expert my hon. friend is, but my information comes from a man who handles these products, and I believe it is thoroughly reliable. Lettuce cannot be kept for more than two weeks. I also understand that the market gardeners of Canada would prefer that these fresh vegetables be allowed to come in during the winter months, because people develop habits in eating as in other things, and if they are able to get vegetables during the winter they will be likely to continue eating them during the summer. That is sound reasoning. Furthermore, it is sometimes difficult to get children to eat certain vegetables, and if they are away from them for four or five months out of the year it is hard to get them to eat them again.
May I now say something about the nutritional aspect, which was mentioned by the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre. We have heard some very offhand expressions about having done so well over the past twenty or thirty years, as far as nutrition is concerned, when we did not have these imported vegetables. That has been told us not only by the Minister of Finance but also by the Minister of Labour a moment ago. I am not at all certain that the people in Britain may not get fresh vegetables from some of the south European countries where the currencies are weakened. Certainly they have their Brussels sprouts; there is no doubt of that. In regard to the value of present-day diets, which we are not able to maintain because of these restrictions, I should like to read from the proceedings of the national nutrition conference for defence, held at Washington on May 26, 27 and 28, 1941. I refer to the concluding address by Thomas Parran, surgeon general of the United States public health service. This, I think, will establish that, while we existed, and not badly, in years gone by, we have greatly improved our standards. Surgeon General Parran says:
In the past two decades there have been breath-taking discoveries on many nutritional fronts. To find a parallel to this swift advance in knowledge we must go back to the epochmaking time of Pasteur, whose germ theory of

Foreign Exchange Conservation
disease made possible a half century of progress against preventable infections. Without Pasteur and his co-workers and disciples, mankind still would be plague-ridden. He made our civilization vastly different. Tomorrow's civilization can be made vastly different, and far better than today's, if we put to work now, what we know now, about the nutrition of human beings.
In the past half century we have added twenty years to the average span of human life-
I hope the Minister of Finance will remember that.
-largely by saving the lives of babies and of young people. But life expectancy for those of us beyond the age of forty has not increased since Pasteur's time. On the contrary, many .[DOT]diseases have increased because more of us grow old enough to acquire them. Deaths have increased from cancer, heart conditions, kidney conditions, mental illness-in fact, from all of the so-called degenerative causes. It is easy to say that this is the strain of modern life. Yet every disease, every malfunction of an organ, results from a derangement in the functioning of the individual body cell. The individual cell functions properly if it is properly fed; and if it is not killed by the invasion of bacterial, virus, or chemical poisons, or by endogenous toxins. The food available to each of the body cells probably determines to a large degree the health of that cell, its proper functioning, its reciprocal relations with other cells, which make up organs and systems of the body.
Then later:
Doctor Sherman has told us that if we replace an average diet-
Such as the Minister of Finance no doubt had, and under which he flourished so well.
-with an adequate diet wye get a ten per cent increase in the active, virile life span.
Some lion. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: It is quite easy to see that I am good until at least eleven o'clock.
Schedule I stands.
Progress reported.



BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

[Stage Direction]
Mr. ST. LAURENT: As previously arranged, tomorrow we go back to the debate on the address. If we should complete that we shall return to the emergency legislation, this measure being first.
Howard Charles Green: Would the Secretary of State for External Affairs say whether we shall continue with Bill No. 3 on Friday if the speech from the throne is not disposed of before that time?


Douglas Charles Abbott: That would be my intention, Mr. Speaker.


[Stage Direction]
At eleven o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.

[Stage Direction]
(IMPORT STATISTICS)
Schedule I	Average 1937-38-39 July 1, 1940-June 30, 1947
[Stage Direction]
Tariff Item
[Stage Direction]
Statistical class
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Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Non- scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Total
[Stage Direction]
Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Non- scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Total
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
2251 Beef and veal, fresh
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
59
[Stage Direction]
63
[Stage Direction]
838
[Stage Direction]
838
[Stage Direction]
767
[Stage Direction]
767
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
170
[Stage Direction]
170
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
711
[Stage Direction]
712
[Stage Direction]
2264 Canned meats, poultry & game
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
43
[Stage Direction]
52
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
66
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
72
[Stage Direction]
1,611
[Stage Direction]
1,611
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
118
[Stage Direction]
118
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
254
[Stage Direction]
254
[Stage Direction]
34
[Stage Direction]
34
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
Total meats
[Stage Direction]
1,370
[Stage Direction]
823
[Stage Direction]
2,193
[Stage Direction]
2,614
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
2,617
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
245
[Stage Direction]
245
[Stage Direction]
18a
[Stage Direction]
ex369 Peanut butter
[Stage Direction]
(Not a
[Stage Direction]
vailable)
[Stage Direction]
(N
[Stage Direction]
ot availab
[Stage Direction]
le)
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
276 Cocoa and chocolate powder
[Stage Direction]
132
[Stage Direction]
37
[Stage Direction]
169
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
286 Coffee, roasted & substitutes
[Stage Direction]
223
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
224
[Stage Direction]
192
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
193
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
38
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
41
[Stage Direction]
76
[Stage Direction]
76
[Stage Direction]
29a
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
81
[Stage Direction]
81
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
429
[Stage Direction]
429
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
227
[Stage Direction]
227
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
328
[Stage Direction]
328
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
298 Ginger and spices, ground
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
32
[Stage Direction]
54
[Stage Direction]
65
[Stage Direction]
36
[Stage Direction]
101
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
Total, tea, coffee, cocoa, spices
[Stage Direction]
466
[Stage Direction]
78
[Stage Direction]
544
[Stage Direction]
1,418
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
1,458
[Stage Direction]
36
[Stage Direction]
155
[Stage Direction]
39
[Stage Direction]
194
[Stage Direction]
287
[Stage Direction]
287
[Stage Direction]
37 & 38
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
42a
[Stage Direction]
7296 Table salt...
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
63
[Stage Direction]
63
[Stage Direction]
43
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
Ex 45
[Stage Direction]
64
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
69
[Stage Direction]
272
[Stage Direction]
.. 272
[Stage Direction]
46
[Stage Direction]
17
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
717
[Stage Direction]
717
[Stage Direction]
Ex 47
[Stage Direction]
163 Beans n.o.p. except soy beans
[Stage Direction]
71
[Stage Direction]
46
[Stage Direction]
117
[Stage Direction]
522
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
560
[Stage Direction]
48
[Stage Direction]
170 Peas, whole
[Stage Direction]
121
[Stage Direction]
182
[Stage Direction]
303
[Stage Direction]
465
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
466
[Stage Direction]
194
[Stage Direction]
211
[Stage Direction]
405
[Stage Direction]
204
[Stage Direction]
204
[Stage Direction]
65'
[Stage Direction]
203 Biscuits, not sweetened
[Stage Direction]
66
[Stage Direction]
91
[Stage Direction]
157
[Stage Direction]
203
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
207
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
66
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
688
[Stage Direction]
688
[Stage Direction]
67
[Stage Direction]
208 Macaroni
[Stage Direction]
45
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
50
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
79b
[Stage Direction]
1666 Flowers and cut foliage
[Stage Direction]
111
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
114
[Stage Direction]
364
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
366
[Stage Direction]
87
[Stage Direction]
94
[Stage Direction]
94
[Stage Direction]
465
[Stage Direction]
465
[Stage Direction]
284
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
285
[Stage Direction]
502
[Stage Direction]
502
[Stage Direction]
55
[Stage Direction]
l
[Stage Direction]
56
[Stage Direction]
148
[Stage Direction]
148
[Stage Direction]
313
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
314
[Stage Direction]
939
[Stage Direction]
939
[Stage Direction]
355
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
361
[Stage Direction]
1,222
[Stage Direction]
1,222
[Stage Direction]
136
[Stage Direction]
136
[Stage Direction]
428
[Stage Direction]
428
[Stage Direction]
536
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
542
[Stage Direction]
2,298
[Stage Direction]
2,298
[Stage Direction]
87
[Stage Direction]
87
[Stage Direction]
277
[Stage Direction]
277
[Stage Direction]
920
[Stage Direction]
920
[Stage Direction]
2,821
[Stage Direction]
2,821
[Stage Direction]
123 Green peas
[Stage Direction]
117
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
148
[Stage Direction]
174
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
199
[Stage Direction]
159
[Stage Direction]
159
[Stage Direction]
422
[Stage Direction]
322
[Stage Direction]
127 Tomatoes
[Stage Direction]
812
[Stage Direction]
601
[Stage Direction]
1,413
[Stage Direction]
3,504
[Stage Direction]
2,910
[Stage Direction]
6,414
[Stage Direction]
128 Fresh vegetables, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
258
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
285
[Stage Direction]
869
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
882
[Stage Direction]
Total, fresh vegetables
[Stage Direction]
4,108
[Stage Direction]
674
[Stage Direction]
4,782
[Stage Direction]
13,969
[Stage Direction]
2,948
[Stage Direction]
16,917
[Stage Direction]
Tariff Item	Statistical class	Schedulec countries	Non- schedulec countries	Total	Schedulec countries	Non- scheduled countries	Total
89		26
[Stage Direction]
34
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
126
[Stage Direction]
126
[Stage Direction]
143 Corn
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
145 Peas
[Stage Direction]
146 Tomatoes
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
74
[Stage Direction]
92
[Stage Direction]
526
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
531
[Stage Direction]
147 Canned vegetables, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
44
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
79
[Stage Direction]
363
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
365
[Stage Direction]
(included
[Stage Direction]
e)
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
Total, canned vegetables		124	112	236	1,147	7	1,154
90e					152
[Stage Direction]
91
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
92
[Stage Direction]
110
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
111
[Stage Direction]
4 Cherries
[Stage Direction]
116
[Stage Direction]
116
[Stage Direction]
177
[Stage Direction]
177
[Stage Direction]
528
[Stage Direction]
14 Peaches
[Stage Direction]
246
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
247
[Stage Direction]
15 Pears
[Stage Direction]
469
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
479
[Stage Direction]
l! 444
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
1 i 475
[Stage Direction]
17 Plums
[Stage Direction]
262
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
263
[Stage Direction]
18 Berries
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
' 3
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
' 9
[Stage Direction]
441
[Stage Direction]
94
[Stage Direction]
7 Grapes
[Stage Direction]
967
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
995
[Stage Direction]
5,784
[Stage Direction]
113
[Stage Direction]
5,897
[Stage Direction]
95
[Stage Direction]
11 Cantaloupes
[Stage Direction]
235
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
236
[Stage Direction]
740
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
746
[Stage Direction]
335
[Stage Direction]
24
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
97
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
297
[Stage Direction]
297
[Stage Direction]
995
[Stage Direction]
995
[Stage Direction]
Total, fruits, fresh
[Stage Direction]
3,691
[Stage Direction]
53
[Stage Direction]
3,744
[Stage Direction]
14,503
[Stage Direction]
156
[Stage Direction]
14,659
[Stage Direction]
99b
[Stage Direction]
45
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
42 Dried fruits, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
32
[Stage Direction]
37
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
45
[Stage Direction]
99d
[Stage Direction]
35 Dates, dried, unpitted in bulk
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
178
[Stage Direction]
203
[Stage Direction]
623
[Stage Direction]
32
[Stage Direction]
655
[Stage Direction]
99e
[Stage Direction]
36 Dates, dried, n.o.p.
[Stage Direction]
07)
[Stage Direction]
(17)
[Stage Direction]
(1,316)
[Stage Direction]
(1 316)
[Stage Direction]
99g
[Stage Direction]
200
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
116
[Stage Direction]
116
[Stage Direction]
40 Pears, dried
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
104 & 105
[Stage Direction]
61 Fruit pulp, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
43
[Stage Direction]
74
[Stage Direction]
117
[Stage Direction]
975
[Stage Direction]
96
[Stage Direction]
1,071
[Stage Direction]
108
[Stage Direction]
2337 Honey & imitations
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
215
[Stage Direction]
286
[Stage Direction]
501
[Stage Direction]
£x 109
[Stage Direction]
91 Almonds, unshelled
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
52
[Stage Direction]
80
[Stage Direction]
243
[Stage Direction]
90
[Stage Direction]
333
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
93 Filberts and hazelnuts
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
91
[Stage Direction]
98
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
197
[Stage Direction]
218
[Stage Direction]
95 Pecans
[Stage Direction]
123
[Stage Direction]
123
[Stage Direction]
96 Walnuts
[Stage Direction]
182
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
209
[Stage Direction]
1,054
[Stage Direction]
118
[Stage Direction]
1,172
[Stage Direction]
97 Other nuts, unshelled
[Stage Direction]
43
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
54
[Stage Direction]
71
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
72
[Stage Direction]
Total nuts, unshelled
[Stage Direction]
406
[Stage Direction]
281
[Stage Direction]
687
[Stage Direction]
1,673
[Stage Direction]
748
[Stage Direction]
2,421
[Stage Direction]
110
[Stage Direction]
ex 81 Coconuts, not import direct
[Stage Direction]
123a
[Stage Direction]
2131 Crabs, clams & shrimps, canned
[Stage Direction]
228
[Stage Direction]
46
[Stage Direction]
274
[Stage Direction]
87
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
99
[Stage Direction]
124
[Stage Direction]
2100 Oysters, shelled, in bulk
[Stage Direction]
207
[Stage Direction]
207
[Stage Direction]
125, 126,127
[Stage Direction]
2136 Oysters, shelled, in cans
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
128
[Stage Direction]
2099 Oysters in the shell
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
130
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
138
[Stage Direction]
265 Maple sugar and syrup
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
139
[Stage Direction]
251 Glucose and corn syrup
[Stage Direction]
59
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
60
[Stage Direction]
1,009
[Stage Direction]
457
[Stage Direction]
1,466
[Stage Direction]
143
[Stage Direction]
1784 Cigars
[Stage Direction]
36
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
37
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
143a
[Stage Direction]
1785 Cigarettes
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
36
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
152c
[Stage Direction]
73 Grape juice, in bulk
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
76
[Stage Direction]
Total, foods & tobacco
[Stage Direction]
12,112
[Stage Direction]
2,982
[Stage Direction]
15,094
[Stage Direction]
45,186
[Stage Direction]
4,844
[Stage Direction]
50,030
[Stage Direction]
Ex 179
[Stage Direction]
4295 Labels, etc
[Stage Direction]
(90)
[Stage Direction]
(28)
[Stage Direction]
018)
[Stage Direction]
(242)
[Stage Direction]
(161
[Stage Direction]
(258)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 181a
[Stage Direction]
4296 Pictorial postcards, folders
[Stage Direction]
505
[Stage Direction]
62
[Stage Direction]
567
[Stage Direction]
622
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
628
[Stage Direction]
Ex 184d
[Stage Direction]
ex4267 Magazines, "pulp' & comics
[Stage Direction]
)
[Stage Direction]
192
[Stage Direction]
4161 Card stock, bristol board
[Stage Direction]
120
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
128
[Stage Direction]
221
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
224
[Stage Direction]
4162 Chipboard, newsboard
[Stage Direction]
56
[Stage Direction]
56
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
4167 Strawboard
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
4168 Testboard for shipping containers
[Stage Direction]
64
[Stage Direction]
64
[Stage Direction]
4169 Wallboard, building board...
[Stage Direction]
332
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
347
[Stage Direction]
1,671
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
1,696
[Stage Direction]
4212 Blotting paper
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
39
[Stage Direction]
72
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
73
[Stage Direction]
4227 Tarred paper, roofing, sheeting
[Stage Direction]
64
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
66
[Stage Direction]
673
[Stage Direction]
192b
[Stage Direction]
7201 Sandpaper, emery paper. . .
[Stage Direction]
42
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
67
[Stage Direction]
118
[Stage Direction]
192c
[Stage Direction]
4226 Roofing and shingles of felt
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
Ex 193
[Stage Direction]
4241 Paper bags
[Stage Direction]
76
[Stage Direction]
56
[Stage Direction]
132
[Stage Direction]
551
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
552
[Stage Direction]
194
[Stage Direction]
4293 Playing cards
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
37
[Stage Direction]
176
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
177
[Stage Direction]
195
[Stage Direction]
4218 Wallpaper
[Stage Direction]
112
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
141
[Stage Direction]
308
[Stage Direction]
57
[Stage Direction]
365
[Stage Direction]
Ex 197
[Stage Direction]
4185 Cover papers, not pasted or coated
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
17
[Stage Direction]
87
[Stage Direction]
4186 Cover papers, pasted, coated
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
45
[Stage Direction]
124
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
137
[Stage Direction]
4228 Tissue paper
[Stage Direction]
66
[Stage Direction]
79
[Stage Direction]
145
[Stage Direction]
112
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
113
[Stage Direction]
87
[Stage Direction]
87
[Stage Direction]
132
[Stage Direction]
69
[Stage Direction]
69
[Stage Direction]
42
[Stage Direction]
4232 All kinds of paper n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
(337)
[Stage Direction]
(85)
[Stage Direction]
(422)
[Stage Direction]
(621)
[Stage Direction]
(52)
[Stage Direction]
(673)
[Stage Direction]
528
[Stage Direction]
528
[Stage Direction]
662
[Stage Direction]
197b
[Stage Direction]
4192 Tissue wrapping paper
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
190
[Stage Direction]
212
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
41
[Stage Direction]
197b
[Stage Direction]
4197 Wrapping of all kinds, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
241
[Stage Direction]
69
[Stage Direction]
310
[Stage Direction]
332
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
335
[Stage Direction]
4199 Imitation parchment wrapping
[Stage Direction]
(inclluded else
[Stage Direction]
where)
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
Tariff Item
[Stage Direction]
Statistical class
[Stage Direction]
Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Non- scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Total
[Stage Direction]
Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Non- scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Total
[Stage Direction]
Ex 198
[Stage Direction]
4191 Greaseproof and glassine
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
58
[Stage Direction]
266
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
272
[Stage Direction]
4193 Vegetable parchment
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
38
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
39
[Stage Direction]
4204 Boxed papers and papetries
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
94
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
100
[Stage Direction]
4217 Gammed paper
[Stage Direction]
44
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
71
[Stage Direction]
296
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
312
[Stage Direction]
Ex. 199
[Stage Direction]
4202 Envelopes
[Stage Direction]
112
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
126
[Stage Direction]
81
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
82
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
34
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
4235 Paper napkins, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
37
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
62
[Stage Direction]
4252 Manufactures of paper, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
(953)
[Stage Direction]
(367)
[Stage Direction]
(1,320)
[Stage Direction]
(2,131)
[Stage Direction]
(119)
[Stage Direction]
(2,250)
[Stage Direction]
(inclu
[Stage Direction]
here)
[Stage Direction]
149
[Stage Direction]
149
[Stage Direction]
4255 Paper doilies and lace paper
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
45
[Stage Direction]
4256 Paper novelties, flowers, games
[Stage Direction]
"
[Stage Direction]
"
[Stage Direction]
86
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
111
[Stage Direction]
4302 Blank books, ruled or plain
[Stage Direction]
38
[Stage Direction]
46
[Stage Direction]
84
[Stage Direction]
109
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
117
[Stage Direction]
Total, paper & products
[Stage Direction]
2,780
[Stage Direction]
593
[Stage Direction]
3,373
[Stage Direction]
7,208
[Stage Direction]
421
[Stage Direction]
7,629
[Stage Direction]
226
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
36
[Stage Direction]
65
[Stage Direction]
65
[Stage Direction]
Ex 228
[Stage Direction]
8236 Toilet soap, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
37
[Stage Direction]
90
[Stage Direction]
127
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
152
[Stage Direction]
230
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
46
[Stage Direction]
49
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
234
[Stage Direction]
8224 Perfumerv, toilet preparations
[Stage Direction]
241
[Stage Direction]
132
[Stage Direction]
373
[Stage Direction]
482
[Stage Direction]
102
[Stage Direction]
584
[Stage Direction]
235b
[Stage Direction]
(124)
[Stage Direction]
(1)
[Stage Direction]
(125)
[Stage Direction]
(191)
[Stage Direction]
(191)
[Stage Direction]
247
[Stage Direction]
8213 Liquid fillers and paints, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
252
[Stage Direction]
48
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
969
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
997
[Stage Direction]
248
[Stage Direction]
8214 Spirits, varnishes, lacquers
[Stage Direction]
52
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
58
[Stage Direction]
288
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
294
[Stage Direction]
249
[Stage Direction]
8216 Varnishes, lacquers, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
160
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
174
[Stage Direction]
626
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
636
[Stage Direction]
251
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
252
[Stage Direction]
8392 Blacking, shoe leather dressing
[Stage Direction]
133
[Stage Direction]
83
[Stage Direction]
216
[Stage Direction]
278
[Stage Direction]
53
[Stage Direction]
331
[Stage Direction]
8413 Polish, knife or other
[Stage Direction]
161
[Stage Direction]
79
[Stage Direction]
240
[Stage Direction]
423
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
449
[Stage Direction]
Ex 257
[Stage Direction]
8407 Ink, writing
[Stage Direction]
(18)
[Stage Direction]
(10)
[Stage Direction]
(28)
[Stage Direction]
(30)
[Stage Direction]
(3)
[Stage Direction]
(33)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 271
[Stage Direction]
7166 Lubricating oils, under 25 cents a gallon.
[Stage Direction]
(1,674)
[Stage Direction]
(4)
[Stage Direction]
(1,878)
[Stage Direction]
(734)
[Stage Direction]
(-)
[Stage Direction]
(734)
[Stage Direction]
7167 Lubricating oils, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
(1,594)
[Stage Direction]
(36)
[Stage Direction]
(1,630)
[Stage Direction]
(3,319)
[Stage Direction]
(3)
[Stage Direction]
(3,322)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 272
[Stage Direction]
7182 Petroleum jellies
[Stage Direction]
(204)
[Stage Direction]
(67)
[Stage Direction]
(271)
[Stage Direction]
(625)
[Stage Direction]
(9)
[Stage Direction]
(634)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 272a
[Stage Direction]
7181 Petroleum greases, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
(351)
[Stage Direction]
(10)
[Stage Direction]
(301)
[Stage Direction]
(800)
[Stage Direction]
(2)
[Stage Direction]
(802)
[Stage Direction]
323
[Stage Direction]
7114 Silvered glass, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
88
[Stage Direction]
51
[Stage Direction]
139
[Stage Direction]
349
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
377
[Stage Direction]
Ex 3261
[Stage Direction]
7079 Decanters and tumblers
[Stage Direction]
126
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
155
[Stage Direction]
436
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
461
[Stage Direction]
Ex 3260
[Stage Direction]
7089 Heat resisting glassware, household
[Stage Direction]
(292)
[Stage Direction]
(40)
[Stage Direction]
(332)
[Stage Direction]
(2,597)
[Stage Direction]
(16)
[Stage Direction]
(2,613)
[Stage Direction]
354a
[Stage Direction]
6014 Aluminum household ware
[Stage Direction]
79
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
95
[Stage Direction]
797
[Stage Direction]
95
[Stage Direction]
892
[Stage Direction]
Ex 362
[Stage Direction]
6094 Electro-plated mfgrs., n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
(32)
[Stage Direction]
(279)
[Stage Direction]
(311)
[Stage Direction]
(142)
[Stage Direction]
(509)
[Stage Direction]
(651)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 362c
[Stage Direction]
6077 Nickel plated ware, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
(597)
[Stage Direction]
(284)
[Stage Direction]
(881)
[Stage Direction]
(2,387)
[Stage Direction]
(289)
[Stage Direction]
(2,676)
[Stage Direction]
6082 Electro-plated ware, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
(1,069)
[Stage Direction]
(191)
[Stage Direction]
(1,260)
[Stage Direction]
(3,026)
[Stage Direction]
(204)
[Stage Direction]
(3,290)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 414
[Stage Direction]
5305 Typewriters
[Stage Direction]
202
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
217
[Stage Direction]
539
[Stage Direction]
44
[Stage Direction]
583
[Stage Direction]
Ex 414a
[Stage Direction]
5504 Dictating machines
[Stage Direction]
(125)
[Stage Direction]
(-)
[Stage Direction]
(125)
[Stage Direction]
(625)
[Stage Direction]
(-)
[Stage Direction]
(625)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 414c
[Stage Direction]
5500 Adding machines
[Stage Direction]
(219)
[Stage Direction]
(8)
[Stage Direction]
(227)
[Stage Direction]
(787)
[Stage Direction]
(31)
[Stage Direction]
(818)
[Stage Direction]
415a
[Stage Direction]
908
[Stage Direction]
908
[Stage Direction]
3,313
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
3,315
[Stage Direction]
226
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
227
[Stage Direction]
683
[Stage Direction]
683
[Stage Direction]
Ex 415b
[Stage Direction]
5448 Washing machines, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
(740)
[Stage Direction]
(-)
[Stage Direction]
(740)
[Stage Direction]
(87)
[Stage Direction]
<-)
[Stage Direction]
(87)
[Stage Direction]
5450 Washing machines, electric
[Stage Direction]
(included
[Stage Direction]
above)
[Stage Direction]
(2,685)
[Stage Direction]
(-)
[Stage Direction]
(2,685)
[Stage Direction]
Ex. 415c
[Stage Direction]
5444 Clothes wringers, domestic
[Stage Direction]
(70)
[Stage Direction]
(-)
[Stage Direction]
(70)
[Stage Direction]
(298)
[Stage Direction]
(2)
[Stage Direction]
(300)
[Stage Direction]
Ex. 415«I
[Stage Direction]
5445 Sewing machines
[Stage Direction]
541
[Stage Direction]
113
[Stage Direction]
654
[Stage Direction]
1,549
[Stage Direction]
223
[Stage Direction]
1,772
[Stage Direction]
Ex 427
[Stage Direction]
5250 Outboard motors
[Stage Direction]
(118)
[Stage Direction]
(-)
[Stage Direction]
(118)
[Stage Direction]
0,492)
[Stage Direction]
(4)
[Stage Direction]
(1,496)
[Stage Direction]
5582 Air conditioning apparatus
[Stage Direction]
(not avai
[Stage Direction]
lable)
[Stage Direction]
(403)
[Stage Direction]
(12)
[Stage Direction]
(415)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 427h
[Stage Direction]
5551 Motion picture projectors
[Stage Direction]
(313)
[Stage Direction]
(4)
[Stage Direction]
(317)
[Stage Direction]
(1,280)
[Stage Direction]
(37)
[Stage Direction]
(1,317)
[Stage Direction]
432b
[Stage Direction]
5604 Hollowware, enameled, iron
[Stage Direction]
120
[Stage Direction]
77
[Stage Direction]
197
[Stage Direction]
643
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
683
[Stage Direction]
433
[Stage Direction]
773
[Stage Direction]
773
[Stage Direction]
5601 Basins, closets, sinks
[Stage Direction]
141
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
142
[Stage Direction]
827
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
842
[Stage Direction]
E' 440a
[Stage Direction]
9152 Boats, open, pleasure
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
70
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
99
[Stage Direction]
116
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
117
[Stage Direction]
359
[Stage Direction]
359
[Stage Direction]
Ex 443
[Stage Direction]
5715 Cooking stoves, coal or wood
[Stage Direction]
(included
[Stage Direction]
below)
[Stage Direction]
202
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
222
[Stage Direction]
162
[Stage Direction]
162
[Stage Direction]
850
[Stage Direction]
850
[Stage Direction]
5718 Cooking stoves, oil, over $10
[Stage Direction]
270
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
278
[Stage Direction]
252
[Stage Direction]
252
[Stage Direction]
249
[Stage Direction]
249
[Stage Direction]
2,713
[Stage Direction]
2,713
[Stage Direction]
5723 Electric cooking apparatus, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
1,325
[Stage Direction]
34
[Stage Direction]
1,359
[Stage Direction]
1,596
[Stage Direction]
41
[Stage Direction]
1,637
[Stage Direction]
5724 Heating or cooking apparatus, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
3,351
[Stage Direction]
177
[Stage Direction]
3,528
[Stage Direction]
1,833
[Stage Direction]
78
[Stage Direction]
1,911
[Stage Direction]
Total, heating & cooking equipment.
[Stage Direction]
4,676
[Stage Direction]
211
[Stage Direction]
4,887
[Stage Direction]
8,127
[Stage Direction]
147
[Stage Direction]
8,274
[Stage Direction]
444b
[Stage Direction]
9081 Lamp shades and holders
[Stage Direction]
107
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
112
[Stage Direction]
106
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
107
[Stage Direction]
Ex 445
[Stage Direction]
6150 Electric light fixtures, domestic
[Stage Direction]
(772)
[Stage Direction]
(73)
[Stage Direction]
(845)
[Stage Direction]
(4,527)
[Stage Direction]
(102)
[Stage Direction]
(4,629)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 445a
[Stage Direction]
6149 Electric flashlights, etc
[Stage Direction]
(350)
[Stage Direction]
(59)
[Stage Direction]
(409)
[Stage Direction]
(1,712)
[Stage Direction]
(85)
[Stage Direction]
(1,797)
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
6148 Incandescent lamps, metal
[Stage Direction]
153
[Stage Direction]
122
[Stage Direction]
275
[Stage Direction]
750
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
751
[Stage Direction]
192
[Stage Direction]
192
[Stage Direction]
1,570
[Stage Direction]
6167 Radio apparatus, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
(2,190)
[Stage Direction]
(176)
[Stage Direction]
(2,366)
[Stage Direction]
(6,015)
[Stage Direction]
(333)
[Stage Direction]
(6,348)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 445e
[Stage Direction]
6141 Batteries, electric, primary
[Stage Direction]
(162)
[Stage Direction]
(39)
[Stage Direction]
(201)
[Stage Direction]
(371)
[Stage Direction]
(2)
[Stage Direction]
(373)
[Stage Direction]
6142 Batteries, storage
[Stage Direction]
(85)
[Stage Direction]
(50)
[Stage Direction]
(135)
[Stage Direction]
(710)
[Stage Direction]
(19)
[Stage Direction]
(729)
[Stage Direction]
6139 Batteries, flashlight
[Stage Direction]
(included
[Stage Direction]
elsewhere)
[Stage Direction]
(153)
[Stage Direction]
(-)
[Stage Direction]
(153)
[Stage Direction]
(78)
[Stage Direction]
(78)
[Stage Direction]
(435)
[Stage Direction]
(64)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 445,j
[Stage Direction]
6168 Electric dry shaving machines
[Stage Direction]
(351)
[Stage Direction]
(i)
[Stage Direction]
(352)
[Stage Direction]
(819)
[Stage Direction]
(-)
[Stage Direction]
(819)
[Stage Direction]
449
[Stage Direction]
70
[Stage Direction]
70
[Stage Direction]
125
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
126
[Stage Direction]
451e
[Stage Direction]
6225 Zipper fasteners
[Stage Direction]
(not avai
[Stage Direction]
lable)
[Stage Direction]
107
[Stage Direction]
* 1
[Stage Direction]
108
[Stage Direction]
Ex 462
[Stage Direction]
9134 Camera & camera parts
[Stage Direction]
(220)
[Stage Direction]
(150)
[Stage Direction]
(370)
[Stage Direction]
(1,409)
[Stage Direction]
(143)
[Stage Direction]
(1,552)
[Stage Direction]
465
[Stage Direction]
9266 Signs, letters, other than paper
[Stage Direction]
120
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
131
[Stage Direction]
236
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
242
[Stage Direction]
468
[Stage Direction]
6227 Cages, bird, squirrel, etc
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
56
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
68
[Stage Direction]
503, 504 \
[Stage Direction]
4041 Tropical woods
[Stage Direction]
51
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
81
[Stage Direction]
365
[Stage Direction]
513
[Stage Direction]
878
[Stage Direction]
504a, 505/
[Stage Direction]
4042 Ash
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
108
[Stage Direction]
4043 Cedar
[Stage Direction]
150
[Stage Direction]
150
[Stage Direction]
236
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
247
[Stage Direction]
4044 Chestnut
[Stage Direction]
t
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
Tariff Item
[Stage Direction]
Statistical class
[Stage Direction]
Schedulec countries
[Stage Direction]
Non- schedulec countries
[Stage Direction]
Total
[Stage Direction]
Schedulec countries
[Stage Direction]
Non- schedulec countries
[Stage Direction]
Total
[Stage Direction]
4045 Fir
[Stage Direction]
376
[Stage Direction]
376
[Stage Direction]
267
[Stage Direction]
267
[Stage Direction]
238
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
239
[Stage Direction]
223
[Stage Direction]
225
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
235
[Stage Direction]
235
[Stage Direction]
4049 Mahogany
[Stage Direction]
112
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
121
[Stage Direction]
81
[Stage Direction]
414
[Stage Direction]
495
[Stage Direction]
4050 Oak
[Stage Direction]
912
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
916
[Stage Direction]
3,383
[Stage Direction]
3,383
[Stage Direction]
184
[Stage Direction]
184
[Stage Direction]
1 224
[Stage Direction]
1 224
[Stage Direction]
705
[Stage Direction]
705
[Stage Direction]
776
[Stage Direction]
*784
[Stage Direction]
130
[Stage Direction]
130
[Stage Direction]
284
[Stage Direction]
284
[Stage Direction]
53
[Stage Direction]
53
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
256
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
257
[Stage Direction]
434
[Stage Direction]
434
[Stage Direction]
224
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
234
[Stage Direction]
302
[Stage Direction]
302
[Stage Direction]
4057 Lumber, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
177
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
178
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
)
[Stage Direction]
629
[Stage Direction]
629
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
39
[Stage Direction]
39
[Stage Direction]
505a
[Stage Direction]
53
[Stage Direction]
53
[Stage Direction]
132
[Stage Direction]
132
[Stage Direction]
Total, lumber
[Stage Direction]
3,792
[Stage Direction]
56
[Stage Direction]
3,848
[Stage Direction]
8,753
[Stage Direction]
951
[Stage Direction]
9,704
[Stage Direction]
Ex 506
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
4157 Manufactures of wood, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
(726)
[Stage Direction]
(155)
[Stage Direction]
(881)
[Stage Direction]
(1,601)
[Stage Direction]
(S3)
[Stage Direction]
(1,684)
[Stage Direction]
4158 Bowls, trays, dishes of wood
[Stage Direction]
(not
[Stage Direction]
available)
[Stage Direction]
168
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
172
[Stage Direction]
506a
[Stage Direction]
137
[Stage Direction]
193
[Stage Direction]
330
[Stage Direction]
506b
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
507
[Stage Direction]
36
[Stage Direction]
36
[Stage Direction]
238
[Stage Direction]
238
[Stage Direction]
Ex 507a
[Stage Direction]
(848)
[Stage Direction]
(13)
[Stage Direction]
(861)
[Stage Direction]
507b
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
507c
[Stage Direction]
4073 Plywood, glued
[Stage Direction]
97
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
110
[Stage Direction]
71
[Stage Direction]
59
[Stage Direction]
130
[Stage Direction]
507e
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
508
[Stage Direction]
39
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
42
[Stage Direction]
80
[Stage Direction]
80
[Stage Direction]
512
[Stage Direction]
9076 Picture frames
[Stage Direction]
115
[Stage Direction]
24
[Stage Direction]
139
[Stage Direction]
229
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
251
[Stage Direction]
Ex 514
[Stage Direction]
4142 Caskets & coffins
[Stage Direction]
(79)
[Stage Direction]
(->
[Stage Direction]
(79)
[Stage Direction]
(85)
[Stage Direction]
(-)
[Stage Direction]
(85)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 515
[Stage Direction]
9265 Showcases
[Stage Direction]
(30)
[Stage Direction]
(i)
[Stage Direction]
(31)
[Stage Direction]
(250)
[Stage Direction]
(->
[Stage Direction]
(250)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 519
[Stage Direction]
4151 I'urniture, manila wood
[Stage Direction]
737
[Stage Direction]
202
[Stage Direction]
939
[Stage Direction]
2,904
[Stage Direction]
277
[Stage Direction]
3,181
[Stage Direction]
5692 Furniture, metal
[Stage Direction]
547
[Stage Direction]
50
[Stage Direction]
597
[Stage Direction]
2,419
[Stage Direction]
44
[Stage Direction]
2,463
[Stage Direction]
519a
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
5218 Wire screens and doors
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
* 13
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
138
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
156
[Stage Direction]
36
[Stage Direction]
36
[Stage Direction]
127
[Stage Direction]
127
[Stage Direction]
519a
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
42
[Stage Direction]
42
[Stage Direction]
9075 Mattresses
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
597
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
9117 Pianos
[Stage Direction]
65
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
66
[Stage Direction]
318
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
323
[Stage Direction]
Ex 597a
[Stage Direction]
9120 Phonographs
[Stage Direction]
(327)
[Stage Direction]
(16)
[Stage Direction]
(343)
[Stage Direction]
(1,603)
[Stage Direction]
(51)
[Stage Direction]
(1,654)
[Stage Direction]
602
[Stage Direction]
41
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
61
[Stage Direction]
82
[Stage Direction]
82
[Stage Direction]
603
[Stage Direction]
2172 Rabbit skins, dressed
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
343
[Stage Direction]
374
[Stage Direction]
95
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
107
[Stage Direction]
2173 Fur skins, dressed, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
603
[Stage Direction]
173
[Stage Direction]
776
[Stage Direction]
1,354
[Stage Direction]
312
[Stage Direction]
1,666
[Stage Direction]
2175 Fur skins, sheep pelts
[Stage Direction]
(In
[Stage Direction]
eluded ab
[Stage Direction]
ove)
[Stage Direction]
1,307
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
1,329
[Stage Direction]
Ex 618b
[Stage Direction]
1716 Tire casings
[Stage Direction]
(251)
[Stage Direction]
(77)
[Stage Direction]
(328)
[Stage Direction]
(4,257)
[Stage Direction]
(46)
[Stage Direction]
(4,303)
[Stage Direction]
1717 Inner tubes
[Stage Direction]
(16)
[Stage Direction]
(4)
[Stage Direction]
(20)
[Stage Direction]
(293)
[Stage Direction]
(6)
[Stage Direction]
(299)
[Stage Direction]
624
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
9183 Statues and statuettes
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
75
[Stage Direction]
98
[Stage Direction]
128
[Stage Direction]
61
[Stage Direction]
189
[Stage Direction]
9255 Alabaster, etc. ornaments
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
100
[Stage Direction]
- 121
[Stage Direction]
483
[Stage Direction]
119
[Stage Direction]
602
[Stage Direction]
625
[Stage Direction]
2181 Manufactures of fur, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
130
[Stage Direction]
96
[Stage Direction]
226
[Stage Direction]
802
[Stage Direction]
251
[Stage Direction]
1,053
[Stage Direction]
629
[Stage Direction]
9088 Umbrellas, etc
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
61
[Stage Direction]
225
[Stage Direction]
67
[Stage Direction]
292
[Stage Direction]
647
[Stage Direction]
9073 Jewellery, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
664
[Stage Direction]
234
[Stage Direction]
988
[Stage Direction]
2,883
[Stage Direction]
726
[Stage Direction]
3,609
[Stage Direction]
Ex 648
[Stage Direction]
9262 Precious stones, unmounted
[Stage Direction]
(96)
[Stage Direction]
(135)
[Stage Direction]
(231)
[Stage Direction]
(996)
[Stage Direction]
(518)
[Stage Direction]
(1,514)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 651
[Stage Direction]
9065 Buttons, collar & cuff
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
39
[Stage Direction]
9066 Buttons, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
(149)
[Stage Direction]
(73)
[Stage Direction]
(222)
[Stage Direction]
(699)
[Stage Direction]
(24)
[Stage Direction]
(723)
[Stage Direction]
652
[Stage Direction]
9069 Combs, toilet, fancy
[Stage Direction]
37
[Stage Direction]
116
[Stage Direction]
153
[Stage Direction]
180
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
206
[Stage Direction]
Ex 655
[Stage Direction]
9259 Pens, fountain
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
38
[Stage Direction]
473
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
474
[Stage Direction]
Ex 655a
[Stage Direction]
9257 Pencils, lead, non-propelling
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
64
[Stage Direction]
77
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
9258 Pencils, lead, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
86
[Stage Direction]
60
[Stage Direction]
146
[Stage Direction]
169
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
173
[Stage Direction]
665
[Stage Direction]
8135 Fireworks
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
65
[Stage Direction]
80
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
689a
[Stage Direction]
7295 Mineral wool
[Stage Direction]
(57)
[Stage Direction]
(-)
[Stage Direction]
(57)
[Stage Direction]
(377)
[Stage Direction]
(-)
[Stage Direction]
(377)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 695
[Stage Direction]
9181 Paintings under 820
[Stage Direction]
(2)
[Stage Direction]
(5)
[Stage Direction]
(7)
[Stage Direction]
(3)
[Stage Direction]
(14)
[Stage Direction]
07)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 695a
[Stage Direction]
9182 Paintings over $20
[Stage Direction]
(1,303)
[Stage Direction]
(472)
[Stage Direction]
(1,775)
[Stage Direction]
(569)
[Stage Direction]
(307)
[Stage Direction]
(876)
[Stage Direction]
Ex 711
[Stage Direction]
272
[Stage Direction]
272
[Stage Direction]
1,052
[Stage Direction]
1,052
[Stage Direction]
6143 Electric heating apparatus, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
(52)
[Stage Direction]
(2)
[Stage Direction]
(54)
[Stage Direction]
(1,001)
[Stage Direction]
(16)
[Stage Direction]
(1,017)
[Stage Direction]
703b
[Stage Direction]
104
[Stage Direction]
104
[Stage Direction]
96
[Stage Direction]
122
[Stage Direction]
122
[Stage Direction]
162
[Stage Direction]
162
[Stage Direction]
780
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
801
[Stage Direction]
971
[Stage Direction]
971
[Stage Direction]
9224 Clothing
[Stage Direction]
3,620
[Stage Direction]
300
[Stage Direction]
3,920
[Stage Direction]
4,886
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
4,887
[Stage Direction]
664
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
666
[Stage Direction]
1,102
[Stage Direction]
944
[Stage Direction]
24
[Stage Direction]
986
[Stage Direction]
1,579
[Stage Direction]
9227 Miscellaneous
[Stage Direction]
(1,543)
[Stage Direction]
(270)
[Stage Direction]
(1,813)
[Stage Direction]
(3,491)
[Stage Direction]
(2)
[Stage Direction]
(3,493)
[Stage Direction]
Total tourist purchases
[Stage Direction]
6,234
[Stage Direction]
365
[Stage Direction]
6,599
[Stage Direction]
8,796
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
8,797
[Stage Direction]
Grand Total-complete items
[Stage Direction]
37,677
[Stage Direction]
6,867
[Stage Direction]
44,534
[Stage Direction]
110,958
[Stage Direction]
9,372
[Stage Direction]
120,330
[Stage Direction]
Grand Total-partial items
[Stage Direction]
17,976
[Stage Direction]
3,172
[Stage Direction]
21,148
[Stage Direction]
58,042
[Stage Direction]
3,196
[Stage Direction]
61,238
[Stage Direction]
Note:-Import statistics relating to items included only in part are shown in brackets.
[Stage Direction]
Wednesday, February 18, 1948