1948-02-04

Mr. DIEFENBAKER:: 1.	Has the war assets corporation sold any aircraft to foreign nations?
2.	If so, how many and to which nations?
3.	What were the unit prices in each case to each nation?


Mr. McILRAITH:: 

WAR ASSETS-WESTMOUNT, N.S.-CLOTHING, ETC.

Mr. MacLEAN:: 1.	What is the estimated value of clothing, boots, blankets and other material formerly held for sale at Westmount, Cape Breton, by the war assets corporation?
2.	Were any tenders or offers made for these goods by merchants of Cape Breton?
3.	Were such goods removed from Cape Breton?
4.	If so, to what locality?
5.	Have they been sold?
6.	If so, what amount was realized from the sale of the above-mentioned material?


Mr. McILRAITH:: 1.	It is not possible at this time to estimate the value of these goods because the work of screening the goods as to quantities and condition, which is necessary in order to estimate their value, has not yet been completed.
2.	Yes.
3.	Yes. Facilities for grading and disposal were not available at Westmount, Cape Breton.
4.	Debert, N.S. and, for national distribution to No. 1 reclamation depot, Valleyfield, P.Q.
5.	No.
6.	Answered by No. 5 above.



NAVY, ARMY AND AIR FORCE OFFICERS

[Stage Direction]
Mr. MeOUAIG:
1.	As at December 31, 1947, how many officers were in (a) the Canadian army; (b) the Royal Canadian Air Force; (c) the Royal Canadian Navy? [DOT]
2.	By provinces, in each of the three services, how many were born in Canada and how many were born abroad?
Mr. LAPOINTE:: 1.	(a) 2,284; (b) 1.980; (c) 1,053.
2.	Air
Army	Force	NavyPrince Edward Island	19	12	5Nova Scotia	132	92	72New Brunswick 	88	53	30Quebec 	353	124	68Ontario	782	650	268Manitoba 	166	188	48Saskatchewan 	170	241	76Alberta 	119	181	78British Columbia ...	99	137	139Yukon and North	West Territories ..	1	2	2Abroad 	355	300	2672,284	1,980	1,053



IMPORT RESTRICTIONS-CONFISCATED GOODS

Mr. STEPHENSON:: Under the new import restriction program, what is to be done with confiscated goods coming into Canada from the United States; (a) are they to be returned to the sender; (b) are they to be held and sold by the government?


Mr. WINTERS:: Goods imported into
Canada contrary to restrictions imposed under the emergency import control are (a) permitted to be returned to the sender, or, (b) in default of such exportation are disposed of under the provisions of the Customs Act as prohibited goods by being offered for sale by public auction or by tender.
842
Questions



IMMIGRATION

Mr. PROBE:: 1.	What Canadian immigration offices are now operating on the continent of Europe?
2.	How many "travelling teams" of immigration officials representing Canada are in Europe and in what countries are they operating?
3.	On what basis do they accept or reject applicants for immigration to Canada?
4.	What individuals, groups, societies, corporations or governments made applications to Canadian immigration authorities for admission to Canada of specific or general types of immigrants (excluding relatives) since V-E day?
5.	How many immigrants have been admitted on behalf of each applicant mentioned in question 4?


Mr. GLEN:: 1.	At the present time, the immigration branch of the Department of Mines and Resources has offices in Paris, France, Brussels, Belgium, The Hague, Holland, Rome, Italy, and Heidelberg, Germany. The latter office was recently established to serve as a headquarters for the Canadian government immigration mission which is at present engaged in examination of displaced persons in Germany and Austria.
By arrangement with the Department of External Affairs, prospective migrants to Canada may also be examined and granted visas at the following places in Europe: Oslo, Norway, Stockholm, Sweden, Copenhagen, Denmark, Warsaw, Poland, Berlin, Germany, Prague, Czechoslovakia, Berne, Switzerland, Athens, Greece, Lisbon, Portugal, Moscow, Russia.
2.	There are six "travelling teams" of immigration officials engaged in the examination of displaced persons in Germany and Austria.
3.	Applicants for immigration to Canada on appearing in person before a Canadian immigration officer must satisfy the latter that they come within the close relative or occupational groups as set forth in order in council P.C. 4849 of November 26, 1947, or that they are admissible under the provisions of order in council P.C. 1647 of April 29, 1947, or order in council P.C. 2180 of June 6, 1947, as amended by order in council P.C. 2856 of July 18, 1947, and order in council P.C. 3926, of October 1, 1947.
It must be established that settlement arrangements for the reception in Canada of the intending immigrant are satisfactory and in the case of a person nominated by an industrial concern, there must be assurance of employment and adequate housing accommodation. The intending immigrant must pass medical examination, be of good char-

acter, satisfactory from a security viewpoint and in possession of valid travel documents establishing identity.
Order in council P.C. 4850 of November 26, 1947, prohibits the landing in Canada of all enemy aliens with the exception of the wife and minor children of a legal resident of Canada, the fiancee of a Canadian serviceman, and persons who are able to establish that they were opposed to an enemy government. Order in council P.C. 4850, of the 26th of November, 1947, however, provides that nationals of Italy, Finland, Hungary and Roumania with which countries peace treaties have been signed shall not be considered to be enemy aliens for immigration purposes.
Visa is not granted unless the Canadian immigration officer is satisfied in all these respects.
4.	and 5. Up to December 31, 1947, there have been 20,201 applications of various companies and organizations approved and of this number, 5,091 have been admitted to Canada. Hereunder is a list of the companies and organizations showing the number of applications which have been made and the arrivals in each case:-
Company or Organization Applica- Arrivals
tions
The Spruce Falls Power
and Paper Co., Ltd. ..	600	600
The Great Lakes Paper
Co., Ltd	 420	420
Abitibi Power and Paper
Co., Ltd	 597	597
Brompton Pulp and
Paper	 400	400
Driftwood Lands and
Timber Co., Ltd	100	100Gillies Bros, and Co., Ltd.	70	70Hammermill Paper Co. .	25	25Kalamazoo Vegetable Parchment Co., Ltd. ..	150	150A. E. Wicks Ltd	150	150Kormac Lumber Co. ...	50	50
Nipigon Lake Timber
Co	
200	200Pigeon Timber Co	300	300
J. J. McFadden Lumber
Co	
100	100Mountjoy Timber Co. ..	40	40
Rudolph-McChesney
Lumber Co	 60	60
Marathon Paper Mills of
Canada	 200	100
T. S. Woollings and
Company	
100	50Woollings Forest Products	50	25
Questions
Company or Organization	Applica-	Arrivals	Company or Organization	Applica-	Arrivals
	tions			tions	
Barry's Bay Lumber Co.,			Canadian Johns-Manville		
Ltd	25	Co., Ltd	25	Staniforth Lumber Co...	25	Canadian Malartic Gold	Singer Co., Ltd	35	Mines Ltd	10	R. F. Welch Construction	Chesterville Mines Ltd.	15	Co., Ltd	1,500	95	Coniaurum Mines Ltd..	15	Canadian Pacific	Consolidated Beattie	Railway 	2,055	175	Mines Ltd	50	Algoma Central Railway	East Sullivan Mines Ltd.	25	Co	80	Falconbridge Nickel	The Hydro Electric Power	Mines Ltd	20	Commission of Ontario	2,000	91	Golden Manitou Mines	Hollinger Consolidated	Ltd	50	4Gold Mines Ltd	300	60	Hallnor Mines Ltd	12	Kerr Addison Gold Mines	Louvicourt Goldfield	Ltd	90	12	Corporation 	25	2Kirkland Lake Gold	Macassa Mines Ltd	32	2Mines Ltd	20	Matachewan Consolidated	Lamaque Mining Co.,	Mines Ltd	20	Ltd	30	4	McIntyre Porcupine	Leitch Gold Mines Limi-	Mines Ltd	60	ted 	15	Noranda Mines Ltd	200	10Little Long Lac Gold	O'Brien Gold Mines Ltd.	40	Mines 	40	San Antonio Gold Mines	Malartic Gold Fields	Ltd	75	Limited	90	25	Waite Amulet Mines Ltd.	70	Pamour-Porcupine Mines	Wright-Hargreaves Mines	Ltd	30	Ltd	12	Paymaster Consolidated	Buffalo Ankerite Gold	Mines Ltd	44	Mines Ltd	50	iSigma Mines (Quebec)	Consolidated Central	Ltd	35	5	Cadillac Mines Ltd. ..	30	Stadacona Mines Ltd...	15	McKenzie Red Lake Gold	Sylvanite Gold Mines Ltd.	42	6	Mines Ltd	6	Teck-Hughes Gold Mines	24	Molybdenite Corp. of	Central Patricia Gold	Canada Ltd	25	Mines Ltd	75	Renabie Mines Ltd	20	Keno Hill Mining Co.,	Senator Rouyn Ltd	20	Ltd	50	Sheep Creek Gold Mines	Madsen Red Lake Gold	Ltd	25	Mines Ltd	50	Sullivan Consolidated	Delnite Gold Mines Ltd.	35	Mines Ltd	50	25Perron Gold Mines Ltd.	40	10	Tobum Gold Mines Ltd.	10	East Malartic Gold Mines	Dionne Spinning Mills	Ltd	100	25	Ltd	100	100Lake Shore Mines Ltd...	50	Woods Manufacturing Co.	Pickle Crow Gold Mines	Ltd	100	Ltd	125	40	Primary Textiles Institute	100	Hasaga Gold Mines Limi-	Milton Brick Ltd	10	125	20	Starrat Olsen Gold Mines	Interprovincial Brick Co.,	Ltd	100	10	Ltd	10	Bathurst Feldspar Mines	The Cooksville Co., Ltd.	40	Ltd	10	Booth Brick Co., Ltd. ..	10	Belleterre Quebec Mines	Toronto Brick Co., Ltd.	10	Ltd	5	Brampton Brick Co., Ltd.	10	Campbell Red Lake	F. B. McFarren Brick Co.	5	Mines Ltd	25	Steel Co. of Canada Ltd.	175	
5849-54J
Questions

Company or Organization Applica- Arrivals
tions
Algoma Steel Co. of
Canada Ltd	 215
Imperial Iron Corp		64
Hahn Brass Co., Ltd....	15
Smith Bros. & Wilson ...	20
Bird Construction Co.,
Ltd	 12
Canadian Construction
Assoc	 180
Aluminum Co. of Canada
Ltd	 50
Essex Packers Ltd		100
The National Council of Clothing Manufacturers
of Canada	 2,316	36
Montreal Dress Manufacturers Guild		200
The Canadian Terrazzo and Mosaic Contractors' Assoc	 70
Canadian Jewish Congress-Orphans	
1,000	193Domestics	
3,000	704Maltese	
50020,201	5,091



CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS-ISLAND POND- PORTLAND, ME., LINE

Mr. HA ZEN:: 1.	How much of the operating expenses in 1946 of the Canadian National Railways line that runs from a point near Island Pond, Vermont, 'to Portland, Maine, and amounted to $2,674,000 was paid in United States dollars?
2.	How much of the gross earnings in 1946 over this line, that amounted to $2,094,000 were received in United States dollars?


Mr. OBEVRIER:: The Canadian National Railways advise as follows:
1.	$2,348,482.
2.	Without examination of the individual waybills and tickets for all traffic handled, determination of the amount of N.E. lines revenues of $2,094,000 for the year 1946 collected in US. funds is not possible.
On traffic handled by N.E. lines in 1946 on which the charges were collectable at points on those lines, there was received in U.S. funds $3,196,360. of which some part was payable to other lines participating in the traffic. On the traffic handled by N.E. lines where the charges were collectable at points on other lines, other than those of the C.N.R. in Canada, the N.E. lines earnings were received in U.S. funds.



CONTRACTS AWARDED BY DEPARTMENT OP PUBLIC WORKS

Mr. MURPHY:: What contracts, if any, of $5,000 or more were awarded by the Department of Public Works during years ending March 31, 1946 and March 31, 1947, and since March 31, 1947, to date, where tenders were not invited?


Mr. FOURNIER (Hull):: Year Ending March 31, 1946
Repairs to inner end of East Pier at Oakville, Ont.
Dredging the Somas river at Port Alberni, B.C.
Dredging at Port Alberni, B.C.
Year Ending March 31, 1947
Dredging in the vicinity of the wharf at Michipicoten harbour, Ont.
Dredging in the Batiscan river, P.Q.
Dredging in the Fraser river at Ladner, B.C.
Extension to freight shed on wharf at West-view, B.C.
Repairs to wharves and floats at Lund and Savary Islands, B.C.
Cleaning of windows of the larger government buildings in Ottawa.
Installation of tubular fire escape for veterans' pavilion of the civic hospital at Ottawa.
Cleaning of windows of the larger government buildings in Ottawa.
Since March 31, 1947 to Date
Reconstruction of a 300-foot section of the wharf at Port Alberni, B.C.
Repairs to wharf at Pointe au Pic, P.Q.
Dredging in section of the channel of the Richelieu river at St. Antoine, P.Q.
Dredging improvements in the fishing harbour of Skinner's Cove, NS.
Construction of protection wall at Contre-coeur, P.Q.
Cleaning windows of the larger government buildings in Ottawa.
Note:-The above list of contracts does not include cost plus contracts, where for specific reasons, tenders were not invited.



AVAR SUPPLY CONTRACTS-REIMBURSEMENTS


Mr. NICHOLSON:: 1.	How many bushels and what was the estimated value in dollars of grain used in Canada for the manufacture of alcoholic liquors in (a) 1944; (b) 1945; (c) 1946?
2.	How many bushels of corn and rye were imported from'the United States for the manufacture of alcoholic liquors in (a) 1944; (b) 1945; (c) 1946?
3.	What was the value of these imports in dollars (a) corn; (b) rye?


Mr. McILRAITH:: 1. Grains Used in the Manufacture of Alcohol (potable and non-potable)
1946	1945	1944Unit	Cost	Cost	Costof Quantity	Value	Quantity	Value	Quantity	ValueMeasure	$	$	$Corn, Canadian, bus. 344,653	695,942	331,968	473,390	282,745	407,236Corn, imported " 477,530	893,774	475,027	886,264	Rye " 417,360	839,051	624,202	917,866	382,493	498,293Wheat " 3,212,770	4,189,501	6,007,870	7,884,302	6,708,921	8,726,354Barley " 268,937	219,221	45,193	37,653	Other grains " 15,435	11,948	1,296	806	Malt, Canadian * lb. 40.902,622	1.393,511	64.337,128	2,146,715	61,724,098	1,989,269Malt, imported " 2,546,300	149,199	168,000	10,186	Wheat flour	(alco meal) " 44,197,952	1,330,706	73,443,114	2,299,990	77,268,410	2,443,711* It takes approximately 1 bushel of barley	to make 1 bushel of malt	(weighing 34 lbs.)	
2 and 3.
Import statistics do not show purpose for items 2 and 3 are the total imports from the
Bushels Value $
Corn	 2,502,868	5,156.156
Rye (Compositive item incl. barley and
buckwheat)	 8,591	14,032


HOUSING
Mr. ISNOR:: 1.	Is wartime housing a subsidiary of the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation?
2.	If so. what is its objective in respect to low-rental house construction for the years (a) 1947: (b) 1948; (c) 1949; (d) 1950?
3.	Has Wartime Housing 'Limited or the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation invited municipalities throughout Canada 'to apply for construction of houses?
which commodities are imported. Figures for United States of com and rye for all purposes.
1945		1944	
Bushels	Value $	Bushels	Value $1.659,972	2,640,330	4.213,970	5,870,0213,453	4,993	12,555	12,2844.	If so, on what date were invitations extended?5.	Briefly, on what conditions or terms would the dominion government assist the municipalities in financing these houses?6.	(a) How many municipalities have accepted invitations; (b) what number of houses will be required by each applying municipality?7.	What materials have been ordered; from what firms; what materials and quantities of each?8.	Have these materials been ordered direct from the manufacturers?
Questions

9.	Has the government authority to compel these manufacturers to ship direct to Wartime Housing Limited instead of to and through their regular dealers or outlets?
10.	If building materials are to be channelled direct, will this also apply to plumbing and electrical requirements?


Mr. McILRAITH:: 
PAYMENT OF BANK OF CANADA NOTES
Mr. CAOUETTE:: 1.	As the Bank of Canada notes stipulate that the said bank will pay to the bearer, on demand, the amount printed on the said notes, at what offices of the Bank of Canada is it possible to obtain payment for the said notes?
2.	What does the Bank of Canada use to pay these promissory notes?


Mr. MAYHEW:: 1 and 2. The unit of Canadian currency is "the dollar". Certain forms of currency, including Bank of Canada notes, have, by statute, been given the status of legal tender, and these are the legal means of discharging any obligation expressed in terms of Canadian dollars. Subsection 1 of section 25 of the Bank of Canada Act provides for redemption of Bank of Canada notes in gold bars, but under the authority of subsection 2 of this section this requirement has been suspended since March 11, 1935. Under present conditions, therefore, the phrase "will pay to bearer on demand" on a Bank of Canada note, which is in itself legal tender as mentioned
above, means that it is payable in legal tender of other denominations if required by the holder.


PUBLIC DEBT
Mr. CAOUETTE:: 1.	Of our national debt, what is the amount owing to the chartered banks of Canada?
2.	What was the amount of interest on such debt paid to the banks during 1946-47?


Robert Wellington Mayhew: 1 and 2. The Bank Act does not require that the chartered banks submit details of their holdings of various Dominion of Canada bonds, treasury bills, deposit certificate, etc. The monthly return of liabilities and assets of the chartered banks does not disclose their holdings of Dominion of Canada short or long-term obligations separately from their holdings of dominion guaranteed short or longterm obligations. As a large part of the funded debt of the Dominion of Canada is in bearer form, it is not possible to state what amount is held by the chartered banks of Canada. Consequently it is impossible to state what amount was paid in interest to the banks in	the	fiscal	year 1946-47.	Ontheir holdings of Dominion of Canada treasury bills, the banks would receive approximately four-tenths of one per cent, and on their holdings	of	deposit certificates fiveeighths of one	per	cent.


FOBEIGN EXCHANGE-AMOUNTS PAID TO U.S. RAILWAYS FOR FREIGHT AND PASSENGER CHARGES
Mr. RAYMOND (Beauharnois-Laprairie):: What amount of United States dollars have the Canadian	National	Railways and	the
Canadian Pacific Railway paid to United States railroads, for freight and passenger charges, during the years 1946 and 1947?


Robert Wellington Mayhew: To answer this question in the form in which it is asked, would involve the giving of information which would divulge to one corporation the business transactions of a competitor. However, a preliminary calculation of Canada's balance of payments for the year 1947 indicates that during that year total payments for freight and shipping amounted to $224 million and total receipts from freight and shipping $102 million. The corresponding figures for the year 1946 were $178 million and $112 million respectively. These figures include payments for lake freights and tanker and pipeline services in addition to payments made to United States railways.
Questions


CREATION OF FRESH MONET IN THE FORM OF MONETARY CREDIT
Mr. CAOUETTE:: 1.	Since 1939, has the Bank of Canada created fresh money in the form of monetary credit?
2.	If so, what amount was so created?


Robert Wellington Mayhew: 1 and 2. It is not clear exactly what is meant by this question. However, between December 31, 1939, and October 31, 1947, Bank of Canada notes held by others than the commercial banks, increased $874 million. In the same period Bank of Canada notes and deposits held 'by commercial 'banks increased $404 million; on the basis of this increase in their cash reserves, the total Canadian deposit liabilities of the commercial banks increased $3,487 million to which $2,012 million was in savings deposits.


POSTAL SERVICE-STAFF IN MONTREAL
Mr. CAOUETTE:: 1.	Are Emile Gauthier, Zenon Vincent, Emile Paradis, Georges Dionne and Willie Pitt in the employ of the post office department in the city of Montreal?
2.	If so, how long has each of them been in the service?
3.	Have they been dismissed?
4.	If so, when and on what grounds?
5.	Are any of them receiving a pension?
6.	If so, what amount in each case?


Mr. BERTRAND (Laurier):: 1. No.
2; Answered by No. 1.
3.	Released-see answer to No. 4.
* 4. Emile Gauthier, 1st April 1947; Zenon Vincent, 10th April 1947; Emile Paradis, 1st April 1947; Georges Dionne, 1st April 1947; William Pitt, 10th April 1947. Released as no longer required in positions held.
5.	No.
6.	Answered by No. 5.


CHILLIWACK, B.C., ARMY CAMP BUILDINGS  COAL
Mr. GREEN:: 1.	What tenders were received for the supply of coal to local army camp buildings at Chilliwack, B.C., pursuant to call for tenders No. R-22-4-85 closing as of July 7, 1947?
2.	To whom was the contract let?
3.	At what price per ton?
4.	For what quantity of coal?
Mr. Mcl'LRAITH:
1. Item 1-50 tons coal, bituminous lump and/or egg. For delivery into bins R.C.A.S.C.
supply depot-5 ton lots.			
		Quoted	Cost per
Type of coal	price	millionquoted on	per ton	B.T.U.1. Robertson Fuel Supply Ltd	$15 75	[DOT]68182. Burrard Fuels Ltd	15 90	[DOT]60683. Evans Coleman & Evans Ltd	16 00	4. Diethers Ltd	16 25	[DOT]7108McLeod River-Egg..	15 75	McLeod River-Lump	15 70*	McLeod River-Egg..	15 20*	[DOT]6580Carload lots.	Contract for full quantity awarded to Burrard Fuels Ltd. (Lowest	price on B.T.U. basis.)	Item 2-200 tons coal, bituminous lump and/or egg. For delivery into bins-Huts	EngineerWorks Office, Chilliwack, 10 tons to be taken at one time.	Quoted	Cost perType of coal	price	millionquoted on	per ton	B.T.U.1. Robertson Fuel Supply Ltd	$15 75	[DOT]68182. Evans Coleman & Evans Ltd...	16 00	3. Diethers Ltd	16 25	McLeod River-Egg..	15 75	Average....	16 00	McLeod River-Lump	15 70*	McLeod River
Egg..	15 20*	
Carload lots.			
Contract for full quantity awarded to Robertson Fuel Supply Ltd. (All tenderers offered coal with equal B.T.U. content-carload lots not acceptable-lowest price L.CX.)


194S
[Stage Direction]
Questions
Item 3-1,200 tons coal, bituminous lump and/or egg. pile hutments R.C.E.M.E. Carload lots as required.
For delivery into bins and storage
tLess than carload. Carload lots. Contract for full qu on a B.T.U. basis.)
2 ton lots as required.
	Quoted	Cost per
Type of coal	price	millionquoted on	per ton	B.T.U.McLeod River or	$15 20	[DOT]658if unavailable, South Wellington ..	15 20	[DOT]610McLeod River 	15 25	[DOT]6600Greenhill 	15 90	[DOT]6068McLeod River-Lump	16 25t	McLeod River-Egg..	15 75f	McLeod River-Lump	15 70*	McLeod River-Egg..	15 20*	[DOT]6580d Fuels Ltd. (Lowest price received calculated	lo bins at R.C.E.M.E.	workshops,	Chilliwack.Quoted	Cost perType of coal	price	millionquoted on	per ton	B.T.U.Smithing 	$26 25	Smithing 	40 50	Smithing 	45 00	Smithing 	46 50	rd Fuels Ltd. (Lowest	price received.)	2.	Answered by No. 1.3.	Answered by No. 1.4.	Answered by No. 1.

Mr. McCUAIG:: 1.	To which countries has Canada made contributions during the years 1940 to 1947, inclusive as (a) outright gifts; (b) credits; (c) loans?
2.	What was the amount to each such country under the above mentioned classifications?


Robert Wellington Mayhew: 1 and 2.
(a)	Outright Gifts:
Under the War Appropriation (United Kingdom Financing) Act 1942-United Kingdom, $1,000,000,000.
Under War Appropriation Acts-Gift of Wheat to Greece, $19,382,079.19.
Under War Appropriation (Mutual Aid) Acts -Australia, $91,119,000; British West Indies, $5,518,000; China, $26,597,000; France, $23,629,000; Greece, $12,000; India, $18,826,000; New Zealand, $15,278,000; Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, $159,113,000; United Kingdom, $1,870,978,000. Total, $2,211,070,000.
The figures shown above for mutual aid differ from those published in the final report of the mutual aid board due to the elimination of the costs of goods on hand and declared surplus at the end of hostilities.
In addition to the contributions which were made to individual countries, the Canadian contribution to UNRRA amounted to $154,000,000; an appropriation of $20,000,000 was made in 1947 to finance post-UNRRA relief to needy European countries, of which approximately $5 million has been allocated to the international children's emergency fund, $3.5 million to finance shipments to Austria, $4.5 million to Greece, $4.5 million to Italy, and $200,000 to the Canadian council for reconstruction through UNESCO; and the assessed share to be contributed by Canada toward the operational budget of the international refugee organization amounted to approximately $5.4 million.
A further item of assistance to certain European countries was the Canadian contri-
Questions

bution made under the combined United States-United Kingdom-Canadian program of military relief, under which food, medical supplies, and other civilian supplies were provided in the post-liberated period before UNRRA or local governments were able to take over. The total value of the Canadian contributions for this purpose cannot, however, be regarded as an outright gift, since a portion of the cost of these supplies amounting to $4.5 million has been recovered from UNRRA in settlement for stocks turned over to UNRRA
in the Balkans, $3.1 million has been recovered from the disposal of surplus stocks, and additional recoveries may be obtained from the governments of countries which received these supplies.
The value of the contributions made by Canada for the military relief program were as follows:
Northwest Europe (France, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Norway, and Denmark), $64.0 million; Italy, $28.3 million; Balkans, $3.3 million. Total, $95.6 million.
(b)	and (c) Credits and Loans
Amounts of credit authorized as at December
Belgium-Loan under Export Credits Ins. Act	$100,000,000	00China-Loan under Export Credits Ins. Act	
60,000,000	00Czechoslovakia-Loan under Export Credits Ins. Act	
19,000,000	00France-Loan under Export Credits Ins. Act	
242,500,000	00Netherlands-Loan under Export Credits Ins. Act	
125,000,000	00Netherlands Indies-Loan under Exports Credits Ins. Act....	15,000,000	00Norway-Loan under Eiport Credits Ins. Act	
30,000,000	00
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics-Loan for purchase of
wheat flour	
10,000,000	00Loan under Export Credits Ins. Act	
3,000,000	00
United Kingdom-Loan under War Appropriation (United
Kingdom Financing) Act 1942	 700,000,000 00
Loan under the United Kingdom Financing Act 1946	1,250,000,000 00
Amounts loaned to Dec. 31, 1947

700.000.	000 002
963.000.	000 00
iRepaid in full as at December 31, 1947.
2Balance outstanding as at December 31, 1947, $367,929,816.36.
Temporary advances under section 3 of the War Appropriations Act have not been included in the tabulation since they were short term, recoverable advances. At December 31, 1947, the only advance of this type outstanding was that to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics which amounted to $8,815,680.52.


FARM IMPLEMENTS-IMPORTS AND EXPORTS
Mr. McKAY:: 1.	What value of farm implements were (a) imported into Canada; (b) exported from Canada during the six months' period ending June 30, 1947?
2.	How many farm tractors were (a) imported into Canada; (b) exported from Canada during the six months' period ending on June 30, 1947?


Mr. McILRAITH:: 1.	(a) Imports of farm implements, $17,441,866;	(b) Exports of farm implements,

2.	(a) Imports of tractors and parts (farm
and other purposes), 21,960,	$34,445,125;
(b)	Exports of tractors and parts (farm and other purposes), 2,235, $1,962,684.
[Mr. Mayliew.l


Mr. KNIGHT:: 1.	Has the Canadian government made any progress since last session in the matter of setting up a national commission of UNESCO?
2.	What steps have been taken by the government to set up such a commission?
3.	Who were the personnel of the recent delegation to the UNESCO conference in Mexico, and what is the occupation of each?
4.	Did the members of that delegation represent directly any organization devoted to education, science, or the arts?
5.	Did the government consult such organizations before naming the members of the delegation?
Mr. ST. LAURENT:
1.	No. It has been decided not to proceed at the present time with the establishment of a national commission for UNESCO.

Questions
Sol
2.	Answered by No. 1.
3.	S. D. Pierce, Esq., Canadian Ambassador to Mexico; A. D. Dunton, Esq., Chairman, Board of Governors, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation; H. 0. McCurry, Esq., Director of the National Gallery; Dr. Marius Barbeau, Ethnologist, National Museum of Canada; Mrs. Adelaide Sinclair, Executive Assistant to the Deputy Minister of Welfare; A. W. Crawford, Esq., Director of Training, Department of Veterans Affairs; F. A. Hardy, Esq., Librarian of Parliament; Dr. J. E. Robbins, Chief, Education Branch, Dominion Bureau of Statistics; Ira Dilworth, Esq., General Supervisor, International Service, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation; L. A. D. Stephens, Esq., Department of External Affairs; G. Sicotte, Esq., Canadian Embassy, Mexico City.
4.	No.
5.	No.


TRADE WITH UNITED STATES AND SOUTH AMERICAN COUNTRIES
Mr. TIMMINS:: What was the amount of our exports and imports respectively, in the year 1946, with each of the following countries: Cuba, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, Haiti, Panama, El Salvador, Switzerland, U.S.S.R., United States of America and its possessions, Venezuela?


Mr. McILRAITH:: Exports (including re-exports to)
Cuba	$	5,282,142
Dominican Republic	 1,605,835
Guatemala	 934,420
Haiti	 1.12L337
Panama	 1.502,572
El Salvador	 455,678
Switzerland	 8,694,172
US.S.R	 17,709,402
United States	 908,577,167
Alaska	 329,938
Virgin Islands	 110,085
Guam	 4,622
Hawaii	 2,759,298
Philippine Islands	 8,902,284
Puerto Rico	 2,927,013
Venezuela	 11,143,284
Imports
from
Cuba	$ 13,227,720
Dominican Republic	 7,126,682
Guatemala	 2,927,588
Haiti	 777,950
Panama	 38,048
El Salvador	 2,427,782
Switzerland	 11,148,980
Imports
from
U.S.S.R	$	1,519,421
United States	 1,405,296,699
Alaska	 388,696
Virgin Islands	 31,579
Guam	 49,998
Hawaii	 345,880
Philippine Islands	 2,058,151
Puerto Rico	 197,735
Venezuela	 26,885,874


AMMONIUM NITRATE PLANTS
Mr. HATFIELD:: When the government, under crown companies, operated the ammonium nitrate plant at Calgary, Alberta, and Welland, Ontario, what was the per ton cost of manufacturing ammonium nitrate at each of the above places?


George James McIlraith: Mr. Speaker, the information sought in this question was given to the house at the last session of parliament. It will be feund in Hansard for March 10, 1947, page 1188.


IMMIGRATION AND EMIGRATION
Mr. KNOWLES:: 1.	How many persons have arrived in Canada as immigrants since January 1, 1947 (a) male;
(b)	female; (e) by occupations?
2.	How many persons have left Canada to seek employment or reside in the United States since January 1, 1947 (a) male; (b) female;
(c)	by occupations?


Mr. GLEN:: 1.	(a) Males, 29,564 (to November 30, 1947);
(b)	females, 27,024 (to November 30, 1947);
(c)	see statement below.
2.	No record is kept of persons leaving the country.
Total immigration to Canada, by occupational groups, for the eleven months ended November 30, 1947:
Farming class-Males, 3,677; females, 1,683; children, 2,183.
Unskilled and semi-skilled workers-Males, 6,654; females, 1,387; children, 754.
Skilled workers-Males, 7,586; females, 2,661; children, 1,792.
Trading class-Males, 3,800; females, 3,463; children, 1,205.
Mining class-Males, 163; females, 34, children, 29.
Female domestic servants-18 years and over, 1,616; under 18 years, 95.
Other classes-Males, 2,377; females, 11,073; children, 4,356.
Adult males, 24,257; adult females, 21,917; children under 18, 10,414; total, 56,588.
Questions

VESSEL "mAGEDOMA"


Mr. FRASER:: 1.	Had the government the loan of a boat called the Magedoma during the war years?
2.	If so, on what date did the government take over the boat from the owner?
3.	On what date was the boat returned to the
owner ?	.
4.	Did the government do any repairs or refitting of any kind to the boat or engines?
5.	If so, what firm or individuals did the repairs, etc.?
6.	What was the cost of same?
7.	To what firm or individuals was this money paid?
8.	What was the cost of refitting and reconditioning boat and engines before boat was returned to the owner?
9.	To what use was the boat put during the
war years and during the time that the government had the boat?	_
10.	Where was the boat located during the time that the government had same?
11.	In what year was boat built?
12.	What is the beam of boat?
13.	What is length of boat?
14.	What make and what horsepower are the engines ?
15.	What year were engines installed?


Mr. LAPOINTE:: 1.	Yes.
2.	July 14, 1941.
3.	April 26, 1947.
4.	Yes, normal refits during service.
5.	(a) Kingston Shipbuilding Company, (b) Mr. Richard Marks, Kingston, (c) Lemmon and Sons, (d) Maclachlan Lumber & Woodworking Co., (e) Chown Ltd., (f) W. B. Dalton & Sons, (g) Mullers, (h) Kingston Penitentiary, (i) Mallory Lumber Co., (j) R. H. Smart Limited, (k) Milland & Lamb.
6.	$5,557.
7.	To the companies mentioned in answer to No. 5.
8.	Cash settlement paid to the estate of George T. Fulford, to the amount of $13,000 in lieu of reconditioning.
9.	R.C.N.V.R. training vessel.
10.	Great lakes, based at Kingston, Ontario.
11.	1901.
12.	16 feet, 6 inches.
13.	138 feet.
14.	Triple expansion 28-9 nominal horsepower, built by John Sullivan, New York, N.Y.
15.	1901.


WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCE BOARD
Mr. ARCHIBALD:: 1.	Who are the members of the war veterans allowance board?
2.	What are their respective ages?
3.	What is the military record of each of them (a) during world war I; (b) during world war II?
4.	Have their salaries or emoluments been increased within the last two years? If so, by how much?

5.	What salary or emoluments does each now receive?
6.	Who is the secretary of the war veterans allowance board?
7.	What travelling or other expenses were incurred by each member of the board during 1946 and' 1947?


Mr. GREGG:: 1.	Chairman: (a) F. J. G. Garneau, O.B.E., E.D.; members: (b) A. C. March, B.A., K.C.,
(c)	J. W. McKee, (d) F. D. MacKenzie, B.A.,
(e)	W. A. deGraves,, D.S.O.
2.	(a) 53 years, (b) 59 years, (c) 61 years,
(d)	66 years, (e) 60 years.
3.	(a) World War I-C.E.F. June 1915 to May 1919; served' in Canada, England, France and Germany. World War II

Reserve Army October 1939 to November 1942 (Commanding Officer Ottawa University C.O.T.C.; later called on active service). C.A.S.F. November 1942 to May 1945; service in Canada (Commandant, Ottawa Military Area).
(b)	World War I-P.P.Ci.I. (Imperial and Canadian Army) May 1915 to January 1919; served in Canada, England, France and Belgium; wounded June 2nd, 1915; exchanged prisoner of war.
(c)	World War I

November 1915 to June 1919 (Imperial Army) served in Canada, England, France, Belgium and Germany.
(d)	World War I-Proceeded overseas March 1915, Queen's University Unit. Served in Egypt and Dardanelles campaign; transferred to Canadian Field Artillery 1916. Lieut. C.F.A. 1917 to 1919.
(e)	World War I-September 1914 to January 1920; served in Canada, England, France and Germany; World War II-November 1940 to March 1945; served in Canada, England, France, Belgium, Holland and Germany.
4.	Yes; salaries were increased by act of parliament, effective August 1, 1946. Chairman, $1,000 per annum; members, $500 per annum.
5.	Chairman, $8,000 per annum; members, $6,500 per annum.
6.	Marc-A. LaVoie, E.D., age 52 years. World War I-October 1916 to August 1919 (Imperial Army); in England, near east (Egypt), France and Germany. World War II-Reserve Army October 1941 to October 1946 (Commanding Officer, Le Regiment de Hull).
7.	1946	1947F. J. G. Garneau ..	.. $228.48	$326.70A. C. March 	,. Nil	455.54J. W. McKee 	.. 97.91	89.36F. D. MacKenzie ...	.. Nil	NilW. A. deGraves 	.. Nil	384.24
Questions


USE OF CANADIAN VESSELS BETWEEN PORTS IN UNITED STATES AND ALASKA
[Stage Direction]
Mr. PEARIvES:
1.	Have any representations been made to the United States of America by the government to amend the Jones Act so that freight and passengers, originating in the United States, may be transported in Canadian vessels to Alaska in a similar manner as now provided for under the Jones Act in regard to the transportation of freight and passengers for ports in the states of Washington. Oregon and California?
2.	If not, will the government consider making such representations?
Mr. ST. LAURENT:
1.	No.
2.	The government is willing to consider making representations of this sort when major Canadian interests are involved, and if a statement can be submitted to the government on behalf of the Canadian individuals or concerns affected, the advisability of such representations will be carefully reviewed.

Mr. HARKNESS:: 1.	Is there provision in the R.C.A.F. for an auxiliary squadron at Calgary, Alberta?
2.	If there is provision, why has this squadron not been formed?
3.	Have any steps been taken or are any planned to organize an auxiliary 'R.C.A.F. squadron at Calgary?


Mr. LAPOINTE:: 1.	No.
2.	Answered by No. 1.
3.	R.C.A.F. plans anticipate an auxiliary squadron in Calgary at a later date.


UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE-&quot;SUITABLE EMPLOYMENT&quot; AND &quot;SUBSIDIARY EMPLOYMENT&quot;
Mr. KNOWLES:: 1.	What are the latest instructions given to unemployment insurance commission placement officers with respect to "suitable employment?"
2.	What is meant by "subsidiary employment," and how much ,is a person allowed to earn thereby and still draw unemployment insurance benefits ?


Mr. MITCHELL:: 1.	There has been no material change made in the instructions given to insurance officers since a return was tabled in the House of Commons on February 17, 1947. See sessional paper No. 60 (c).
2.	Subsidiary employment is defined in the act by subsection 1 (b) of section 29:
"An insured person shall be deemed not to be unemployed
(b) on any day on which, notwithstanding that his employment has terminated, he is following an occupation from which he derives remuneration or profit unless
(i)	that occupation could ordinarily be followed by him in addition to, and outside the ordinary working hours of, his usual employment, and
(ii)	the remuneration or profit received therefrom for that day does not exceed one dollar and fifty cents or, where the remuneration or profit is payable or is earned in respect of a period longer than a day, the daily average of the remuneration or profit does not exceed that amount."


SENATE REFORM
Mr. KNOWLES:: 1.	What was the form of wording of the pledge, if any, with respect to senate reform, made by those appointed to the senate on the recommendation of Prime Minister W. L. Mackenzie King during the years 1925 and 1926*.
2.	How many of those appointed during the above years were so pledged?
3.	Have any senators appointed since January 1, 1927, on the recommendation of Mr. King, been similarly pledged? If so, how many?
4.	How many of those now in the senate on the recommendation of Mr. King are pledged to senate reform?
5.	What is the present membership of the senate; how many were appointed on the recommendation of Mr. .Bennett; how many have been appointed on the recommendation of the present Prime Minister; how many were appointed on the recommendation of any other Prime Minister; how many support the government and how many are in the opposition?
6.	Has the practice of securing pledges with respect to senate reform from prospective senators been discontinued? If so, at what date?
7.	What senate reforms have been implemented during the past twenty years and what was the nature and date of each such reform?


Mr. MACKENZIE KING:: Mr. Speaker, I will give an oral answer to this question, although I doubt if it is a proper question. Questions are for the purpose of obtaining information on matters which relate to the responsibility of the government in its administration of the country's affairs. The government or any member of the government, cannot be expected to be obliged to answer questions which refer to arrangements made or understandings reached between members of an administration and any of their followers. I shall be very glad, however, to give my hon. friend such information as I am in a position to give at this moment. His question relates to so-called pledges or undertakings given by certain members of the Liberal party at the time of their appointment to the senate that they would, if the question of senate reform came up, support in the senate such legislation in that particular as the government of the day might wish to have enacted.
Perhaps I can make the circumstances clear by reminding my hon. friend that when the
Questions

Liberal administration came into office in 1921, and for some time thereafter, there were very few Liberals in the senate; there was a very strong opposition. Some of the measures which went from the House of Commons to the Senate wrere defeated there by the opposition; and our government at the time felt, as the British government did in 1911, that something in the nature of a parliamentary act might be necessary in order to ensure that our social and other classes of legislation would not be defeated indefinitely through opposition in the senate.
It was that kind of thing which was in my mind when I spoke with different gentlemen before they were formally appointed to the senate and received their assurance that, in situations of the kind, they would support legislation for senate reform that might come to the senate from this house.
There was nothing in the nature of a written pledge. There was no pledge made to the government, as a government. It was an undertaking that was given to myself, as the one who was responsible for nominating members to the senate. How many there were from whom I received that assurance, I cannot say at the present time. Nor am I in a position to say just when I ceased to raise that question. It did not become as important later on, when we had a majority in the Senate, and were in a position to see that permanent legislation originating in this house was not defeated because of action on the part of a hostile opposition in the upper chamber.
My bon. friend also asked:
What is the present membership of the senate; how many were appointed on the recommendation of Mr. Bennett; how many have been appointed on the recommendation of the present Prime Minister; how many were appointed on the recommendation of any other Prime Minister; how many support the government and how many are in the opposition.
My hon. friend will obtain that information from the same source from which I would be able to secure it, namely the Parliamentary Guide, which contains information respecting appointments to the senate. Indeed, from the point of view of some bon. gentlemen opposite, I might err in making a statement in answer to that part of his question, were I to attempt to give my own views as to the political complexion of some of the hon. members in the senate. When Sir Robert Borden was prime minister it will be recalled that for a time he was prime minister of a Conservative government and for a time of a coalition government. Some of us thought that the coalition government soon became the same
fMr. Mackenzie King.]
thing as a Conservative government; so I would not care to answer that question. My hon. friend will have to get his information from sources which are available; it is not one I could be expected to answer.
Then the hon. member asks further:
Has the practice of securing pledges with respect to Senate reform from prospective senators been discontinued? If so, at what date?
And the further question:
What Senate reforms have been implemented during the past twenty years and what was the nature and date of each such reform?
I have already answered the first of these questons.
The question as to what reforms have been made is a matter of public record. I might regard one thing as a reform, and the hon. member might regard something quite different as a reform. That is a matter of public record which he will have to work out for himself.


Mr. KNOWLES:: May I say in reply to the Prime Minister-


Some hon. MEMBERS:: No.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Order.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Mr. Speaker, on a question
of privilege-


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Order.


Stanley Howard Knowles: On a question of privilege-


Mr. CRUICKSHANK:: Ask the question when I will ever get to the senate.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Put that on the order paper. The Prime Minister has doubted the propriety of placing a question of this kind on the order paper. May I point out that a similar question was placed on the order paper in 1927, and was answered by the Prime Minister at that time. All I was seeking to do was to bring the information up to date.
I still feel the Prime Minister should have given specific answers, particularly to the last two parts of the question.


Mr. SPEAKER:: I consider the question has been answered.
GERMAN SHIP "hITASCARAN"


Mr. THATCHER:: 1.	Has the former German ship Huascaran been converted for the purpose of carrying immigrants to Canada?
2.	Has the ship yet brought any immigrants to Canada?
3.	If so, how many?
4.	If not, when will the ship be ready to carry out the purpose mentioned by the former Minister of Reconstruction on page 5135 of Hansard, July 7, 1947?

Questions


Mr. GLEN:: 1.	Yes. The ship has been fitted to carry 773 passengers.
2.	No.
3.	Answered by No. 2.
4. The ship is due to sail from Canada on her first voyage on February 6, 1948. She will embark immigrants at Bremerhaven on 23rd February and is due to land these passengers at Halifax on March 5.


INCOME TAX-COMPULSORY SAVINCS
Mr. FLEMING:: What is the estimated amount of compulsory savings repayable, by years?


Mr. WINTERS:: 1. The estimated amount of refundable	
savings portion of tax is	$520,527,000, made
up as follows:-	
Taxation	Personal
Year	Income Tax
1942 			 S 58 000 000
1943 			 135 000 000
1944 			 72,000,000
1945 		
*1946 		
Gross total 			 $265,000,000
Less repayments 			 3,669,000
Net total 			 $261,331,000
T axation	Excess
Year	Profits Tax
1942 			 $ 31,200.000
1943 			 67.500,000
1944 			 72^700,000
1945 			 70^500^000
*1946 			 17^300,000
Gross total 			 $259,200,000
Less repayments 			 4,000
Net total 			 $259,196,000
Taxation	Total Amount
Year	Refundable
1942 			 $ 89,200,000
1943 			 202,500,000
1944 			 144,700,000
1945 			 70,500,000
*1946 			 17,300,000
Gross total 			 $524,200,000
Less repayments 			 3,673,000
Net total 			 $520,527,000
*( Corporation fiscal years	ended in 1946).


CANADIAN ARMY FILM BUREAU
Mr. FRASER:: 1.	How many people were employed in the Canadian army film bureau during the year 1947?
2.	How many of these people were members of the armed services?
3.	How many were civilians?
4.	Is the Canadian army film bureau still in operation?
5.	If so. is it connected or affiliated with the national film board?
6.	What was the total cost of carrying on the Canadian army bureau during the year 1947?
7.	How many films were produced?
8.	What were the names of these films?


Mr. LAPOINTE:: 1. 12.
2.	9.
3.	3.
4.	The Canadian army film bureau is in process of amalgamation with similar bureaux of the Royal Canadian Navy and the Royal Canadian Air Force to form a joint service film bureau.
5.	No, but the national film board provides technical services for processing negatives and in connection with the production of films.
6.	Cost, including pay and allowances from April 1, 1947, to January 31, 1948, was $29,919.60 covering the storage, handling, and distribution of some thousands of films for use in active and reserve units as well as on productions referred to in answer to question 7.
7.	Three films are in process of production or planned, which are expected to be completed during the year 1947-48.
8.	The films are confidential and for service instructional purposes only.


ROYAL NAVY PERSONNEL SERVING WITH ROYAL CANADIAN NAVY
Mr. LENNARD:: 1.	How many officers of the Royal Navy are at present serving with the Royal Canadian Navy (a) ashore; (b) afloat?


Mr. LAPOINTE:: (a) Officers, 5: ratings, 22. (b) Officers, nil; ratings, 18.


VETERANS AFFAIRS-W. C. THOMSON, K.C.
Mr. LENNARD:: 1.	Did W. C. Thomson, Esq., K.C., of Toronto, act for the Department of Veterans Affairs any time during the calendar year 1947?
2.	If so, what did he receive in the way of (a) salary; (b) fees; (e) commissions; (d) expenses?


Mr. LENNARD:: Mr. Speaker, as most of the information for which I have asked in this question was given earlier this session, I wish to have the question withdrawn.


James Horace King: Dropped.
Questions


OLD AGE PENSIONS
Mr. BERTRAND (Terrebonne):: 1.	In what year was the Old Age Pensions Act passed by the parliament of Canada?
2.	In what year did the province of Quebec adhere thereto?
3.	What is, at present, the monthly maximum allowance under the act?
4.	Of that amount, how much is paid by the dominion government and the province of Quebec, respectively?
5.	What provinces, if any, are paying a larger contribution than the contribution provided for by the act?


Mr. MARTIN:: 1.	1927.
2.	1936.
3.	The Old Age Pensions Act does not specify the maximum pension payable. Each province is free to fix the amount of the maximum pension and the maximum allowable income within the limits specified in the Act. The federal government's contribution may not exceed 75 per cent of $30 a month.
4.	The province of Quebec has made an agreement with the federal government for the payment of a maximum pension of $30 a month. The federal government contributes 75 per cent and the province 25 per cent.
5.	All provinces have made agreements with the federal government for the payment of a maximum pension of $30 a month with the amounts of maximum allowable income specified in the act. In addition to the pension payable under the agreements, four provinces have made provision for payment by the provincial government of supplemental allowances, as follows:-
British Columbia, $10 a month; Alberta, $5 a month; Ontario, $10 a month; Nova Scotia, $5 a month.
Supplemental allowances in British Columbia and Alberta are paid to pensioners who fulfil certain requirements laid down by the provincial authorities. A pensioner either receives the full amount of the supplemental allowance or no allowance.
In Ontario and Nova Scotia supplemental allowances are paid under a means test and in accordance with rules laid down by the provincial authorities. In any case where supplemental allowance is granted the allowance may be any amount up to $5 a month in the case of a Nova Scotia pensioner and up to $10 a month in the case of an Ontario pensioner.
2.	What amount was received by the province of Quebec during 1945, 1946 and 1947?
3.	What was the contribution of the province of Quebec for each of the above-mentioned years?


Mr. MARTIN:: 1.	Old Age Pensions, $99,159,436.63; Pensions for the blind, $4,428,910.83; total, $103,588,347.46.
2.	1945-Old Age Pensions, $10,680,055.26; pensions for the blind, $561,351.66; total, $11,241,406.92.
1946-	Old Age Pensions, $11,327,862.12; pensions for the blind, $597,505.95; total, $11,925,368.07.
1947-	Old Age Pensions, $13,728,526.82; pensions for the blind, $729,470.16; total, $14,457,996.98.
3.	Due to adjustments between provinces the exact amount of the province's share of pensions for the above years is not available. The province's share, however, would be approximately one-third of the dominion's share. The approximate amounts paid by the province of Quebec for the three years would be as follows:-1945, $3,747,135; 1946, $3,975123; 1947, $4,819,332.


QUEBEC YOUTH ASSISTANCE PROGRAM-ARTS AND CRAFTS SCHOOLS
[Stage Direction]
Mr. 'BERTRAND (Terrebonne):
1.	Has the government of Canada contributed any sums of money, in the province of Quebec, for the building of arts and crafts schools, under the youth assistance program, during 1945, 1946 and 1947?
2.	If so, how many projects have been submitted; how many of such projects have been carried into effect, and what amount has been paid by the government of Canada for each one?
Mr. MITCHELL:: 1.	Yes. Under the vocational schools assistance agreement, dominion contributions have been made to the province of Quebec in each of the fiscal years 1945-46, 1946-47 and 1947-48.
2.	Projects have been submitted' and approved for 28 different technical and arts and crafts schools. Total dominion contribution approved for these projects is, $2,691,400. Total dominion contribution actually paid up to the present for these projects is, $666,585.58.


FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Mr. BERTRAND (Terrebonne):: 1.	What amount has been paid, as old age pensions, by the dominion government to the government of the province of Quebec since the commencement of the act?


Mr. BERTRAND (Terrebonne):: 1.	In what year were family allowances established by the parliament of Canada?
2.	Is the administration of the act exclusively within the competence of the federal authorities, or are the provinces required to contribute thereto?

Questions
3.	What is, to date, the amount paid by the government as family allowances (a) in Canada; (b) in the province of Quebec; (c) in each of the other provinces?
4.	What amount has been paid, as family allowances, in the county of Terrebonne since the commencement of the act?


Mr. MARTIN:: 1.	1944.
2.	The Family Allowances Act is administered exclusively by the federal government.
3.	(a) 8594,403.227; (b) $199,037,068; (c) Prince Edward Island. $5,318,337; Nova Scotia, $32,455,260; New Brunswick, $27,571,045; Ontario, $171,660,470; Manitoba, $33,873,976; Saskatchewan. $43,746,542; Alberta, $41,531,747; British Columbia, $38,399,955; Northwest Territories and Yukon, $808,817.
4.	As family allowances payments are not classified by counties it is not possible to give the information asked for.


SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION
Mr. McCULLOUGH (Assiniboia):: 1.	How many companies are engaged in the manufacture of small arms ammunition in Canada?
2.	What are the names of these companies?
3.	Are they subsidiaries of any foreign companies?
4.	If so, what are the names of the foreign companies?


Mr. McILRAITH:: 1.	There are at present two companies engaged in the manufacture of small arms ammunition in Canada.
2.	Canadian Arsenals Limited (Dominion Arsenal), Quebec, Quebec; Canadian Industries, Limited, Brownsburg, Quebec.
3.	Canadian Arsenals Limited is a crown company.
Canadian Industries Limited has financial connections and working associations with two foreign companies.
4.	E. I. Dupont de Nemours and Company, United States; Imperial Chemical Industries Limited1, Great Britain.


GRADE SEPARATION
Mr. CHURCH:: What sums of money were spent on grade separation in Canada during the year 1947, and where, listed by provinces?


Lionel Chevrier: The Board of Transport Commissioners advise as follows:
Contributions were made from the railway grade crossing fund towards the cost of grade separations as follows:
Province of Ontario
Order No. 69945, dated December 18, 1947. Overhead bridge over Canadian Pacific railway at Pacific avenue, Fort William, Ont., $94,400.
Order No. 69950, dated December 18. 1947. Pedestrian subway under Canadian Pacific railway at McTavish street, Fort William, Ont,, $29,600.
Province of Quebec
Order No. 69418, dated August 29, 1947. Subway under Quebec Central Railway at Sharpe's Crossing, city of Thetford Mines, Quebec, $23,200.
Order 69419, dated August 29, 1947. Subway under Quebec Central railway at Johnson's Crossing (Mooney street), city of Thetford Mines, Quebec, $26,560.
Total amount, $173,760.
There were no contributions towards the cost of grade separations in the other provinces during the year 1947.


GRADE CROSSINGS, TORONTO
Mr. CHURCH:: 1.	What sums of money have been spent on grade crossings in Toronto city during the year
1947,	and where?
2.	Are any projects in that city proposed for the elimination of the level crossings at (a) Jones avenue; (b) Greenwoods; (c) Woodbine avenue ?


Lionel Chevrier: The Board of Transport Commissioners for Canada advise as follows:
1.	No contributions were made from the railway grade crossing fund toward crossing protection in the city of Toronto during the year 1947.
2.	Applications are before the board for grade separations at (a) Jones avenue, (b) Greenwoods, (c) Woodbine avenue.
The railway grade crossing fund as provided for in section 262 of the Railway Act is not allocated to any specific city or place except as specifically directed under order of the board of transport commissioners from time to time.


POSTAL SERVICE-TORONTO
Thomas Langton Church: Is any action contemplated to give Toronto a better residential and business postal service in
1948,	at lower rates and better working conditions and pay for postal employees?


Mr. BERTRAND (Laurier):: It is the
policy of the department continually to study the postal service, both business and residential, given to all points in Canada, with a view to providing the best possible service consistent with reasonable economy.
The salaries of post office employees in Toronto are the same as those at other points throughout the dominion. The rates were fixed by the civil service commission and approved by the governor in council.
Questions


POSTAL DEPARTMENT-SURPLUS  POSTAL RATES
Mr. CHURCH:: 1.	What is the estimated surplus for the last year of record of the Post Office Department?
2.	How was it expended?
3.	Will any steps be taken during 1948 to secure one cent drop letters in cities and reducing from four to three cents the postal rates throughout Canada on first class mail?


Mr. BERTRAND (Laurier):: 1.	$8,773,574.
2.	Deposited in consolidated revenue fund.
3.	This is a matter of government policy.


POST OFFICE-DISPOSITION OF SURPLUSES IN 1946 AND 1947-POSTAL RATES
Mr. CHURCH:: 1.	What was done with the surplus .as shown by the last two annual reports of the Postmaster General of record as follows: 1946 surplus, $10,905,913,; 1947 surplus, $8,773,574?
2.	Will any reduction in postal rates be granted in 1948?


Mr. BERTRAND (Laurier):: 1.	Deposited in consolidated revenue fund.
2.	This is a matter of government policy.


ST. LAWRENCE WATERWAY
Mr. CHURCH:: 1.	What is the present position of the St. Lawrence waterways scheme (a) as to navigation; (b) as to the hydro power situation?
2.	Was another commission appointed since the house closed last July? If so, for what purpose ?
3.	Who compose the commission and .what is the text of the reference to them?
4.	Where is their report or interim report?


Mr. CHEVRIER:: 1.	This matter is now under investigation.
2.	Yes. The purpose of this board was to review the Lachine section in the light of developments which have taken place since the 1926 report of the joint board of engineers.
3.	The board is composed of:-R. A. C. Henry, Chairman; Dr. Arthur Surveyor; Dr. T. H. Hogg; G. A. Lindsay; C. W. West; Norman Marr, acting as secretary.
The text of the terms of reference is as follows:
(1)	Is the scheme for the improvement of the Lachine section of the St. Lawrence waterway recommended by the joint board of engineers in its report of November 16, 1926, practicable, and does it provide to the best advantage at this time and ultimately for the development of this section, having in mind the schemes presently proposed for the improvement of the upper section of the river?
(2)	What alternative scheme, if any, would be better adapted to secure the ends desired?

(3)	Should the estimate of cost as prepared by the joint board in 1926, be revised and if so, what is the revised estimate of the cost of the scheme now proposed?
4.	This report is expected to be received about April 15.


UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE-APPEALS
Mr. KNOWLES:: 1.	How many unemployment insurance claims, by provinces, have been appealed to the umpire since March 31, 1947?
2.	Of these appeals how many made by claimants were upheld, and how many were not upheld, by provinces?
3.	How many made by insurance officers were upheld, and how many were not upheld, by provinces?


Mr. MITCHELL:: 1.	Total appeals by provinces, March 31 to December 31, 1947:
Prince Edward Island
Nova Scotia	
New Brunswick	
Quebec	
Ontario	
Manitoba	
Saskatchewan	
Alberta	
British Columbia ...
5 2
41
2
6
2. Appeals made by claimants:
Prince Edward Island ...	Upheld	Not upheld
Nova Scotia 			2
New Brunswick			1
Quebec 	.... 1	7Ontario	.... 1	11Manitoba 	5Saskatchewan 	1Alberta 	8British Columbia 	32 3. Appeals made by insurance officers	38Prince Edward Island ...	Upheld	Not upheldNova Scotia 	.. .. 2	1New Brunswick 	Quebec 	2Ontario 	.... 13	5Manitoba 	.... 3	iSaskatchewan 	.... 1	.,Alberta 	.... 1	British Columbia 	.... 2	[DOT][DOT]31	9
Questions

Balance at December 31, 1947
Withdrawn Pending
Quebec	
1	3Ontario	
3	8Manitoba	
2British Columbia	
14	14


NATIONAL HEALTH WEEK
Mr. McKAY:: What steps have been taken by the government. to encourage the observance of national "health week, February 1-7?


Mr. MARTIN:: The Department of National Health and Welfare does not by any means restrict its co-operation with the Health League of Canada to activities connected with *"national health week", which is but one phase of the league's work, but is in constant and [DOT]close communication with the league, as with other voluntary organizations in the development of projects to further common aims in the health field. Special mention might be made of financial assistance which has been given to the Health League of Canada by the federal government since 1919 in the form of an annual grant which was this year in the amount of $10,000.
In so far as "national health week" this year is concerned assistance has been given to the Health League of Canada as follows:
On January 31 the Minister of National Health and Welfare issued a statement to the press, praising the vision and enterprise of the Health League of Canada in organizing Canada's fourth "national health week". On request, the minister also made a short statement, containing a reference to "national health week" over the C.B.C. network on Saturday evening, January 31, in connection with a broadcast on the life of Sir Frederick Banting.
On February 3 the minister took part over the C.B.C network in the "Canadian Calval-cade" program, when he spoke on the work of the Health League of Canada with particular reference to "national health week".
In the departmental magazine "Canada's Health and Welfare", which has a monthly circulation of approximately 85,000 the January editorial was devoted to the subject of "national health week".
On request, the department recently provided factual material with respect to its history, statutory obligations, functions, and relationship with the provinces, for the guidance of the health league in issuing
information to the press. The Department also co-operated with the Health League in reviewing the 1948 edition of "Health Facts", issued by the league to clergy, home and school associations, service clubs and other groups, in order to provide them or speakers connected with them with up to date material regarding health in Canada.
On invitation, Dr. G. D. W. Cameron, Deputy Minister of National Health, spoke in Toronto on February 3 at a luncheon given by the health department of the city of Toronto in connection with the observance of health week in that city.



QUESTIONS PASSED . AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS CANADIAN TRAVEL BUREAU

['1.\tWhat are the names of all Canadian employers who have been permitted to recruit persons from displaced persons camps or other places in Europe for employment in Canada?\n2.\tWhat are the names of all Canadian employers who have been permitted to bring enemy nationals with special skills to Canada for special employment ?']
George James McIlraith: Return tabled.



Mr. McKAY:: 1.	How many veterans were in receipt of unemployment insurance during (a) September; (b) October; (c) November, 1947?
2.	What number of veterans were in receipt of out-of-work benefits during (a) September; (b) October; (c) November, 1947?


Mr. GIBSON (Hamilton West):: Return tabled.
Orders jor Returns


DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE-MOTOR VEHICLES
Mr. ROSS (Souris):: 1. How many motor trucks and transport wagons, and of what type, are now in possession of the Canadian Department of National Defence?
2.	How many of these are located in each province or military district?
3. How many motor trucks and transport wagons, and of what type, have been turned over to war assets since termination of the war?
4.	How many are now in possession of war assets?


Colin William George Gibson: Order for return.


Hugues Lapointe: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has agreed to drop parts 1 and 2 of his question, and I would ask that parts 3 and 4 be made an order for return.


James Horace King: Order for return.


SALES OF WHEAT
Mr. McCUAIG:: 1.	What amount of wheat was sold in Canada by the Canadian wheat board in the years 1944, 1945, 1946 and to November 30 for the year 1947, to (a) millers; (b) feeders; (c) distillers, and at what price per bushel from each of the above?
2.	What amount of wheat was sold outside Canada in each of the years 1944, 1945, 1946 and to November 30 for the year 1947, and (a) to what countries; (b) the amount to each such country, and (c) the price per bushel received on wheat sold to each such country?


George James McIlraith: Mr. Speaker, it has not been possible to get the information in the precise form in which it is asked. However, I have obtained other information which I think will give the hon. member the facts with which he is concerned, and I would ask your permission to make it an order for return, now tabled. If the answer is not satisfactory the hon. member could ask a further question.


IMMIGRATION-DISPLACED PERSONS-ENEMY NATIONALS
Mr. KNOWLES:: 1.	What are the names of all Canadian employers who have been permitted to recruit persons from displaced persons camps or other places in Europe for employment in Canada?
2.	What are the names of all Canadian employers who have been permitted to bring enemy nationals with special skills to Canada for special employment ?



EXPORT CREDITS INSURANCE ACT

Mr. McMASTER:: 1.	What is the total amount of the guarantees given by the government by virtue of section 22A of the Export Credits Insurance Act?
2.	In what different countries were guarantees given, and the amount for each country?

3.	What is the total amount of guarantees given to exporters under section 13 or any other section of the act?
4.	What is the individual amounts of the ten largest guarantees?



DUAL SERVICE VETERANS-CAMPAIGN CONDUCTED BY COLONEL PHILPOTT

Mr. ARCHIBALD:: 1.	How many dual service veterans came into the employ of the dominion government between April 1, 1947 and October 1, 1947?
2.	How many dual service veterans are now employed by the war veterans allowance board?
3.	How many dual service veterans were added to the staff of the war veterans allowance board between April 1, 1947 and October 1, 1947 ?
4.	What was the cost to the dominion government of the travelling campaign of Colonel Philpott in favour of business providing employment to older veterans?
a. Is there any record of the concrete results of this campaign in terms of older veterans being employed by business? If so, what are the numbers involved?



CRESCENT FINANCE CORPORATION LIMITED

Mr. ARCHIBALD:: 1.	Is Crescent Finance Corporation Limited operating under a federal charter?
2.	Has this charter ever been revoked or suspended?
3.	If so, when and for what reason?
4.	Was it reinstated?
5.	If so, when and for what reason?



ICE JAMS IN THE BOW RIVER

[Stage Direction]
Mr. HAIRKNE88:
1.	What responsibility, if any, has the dominion government for the provision and clearing of ice jams in the Bow river at Calgary?
2.	Has the government any equipment to prevent the formation of ice jams in Canadian rivers?
3.	If so, what ds the nature of this equipment and can it be made available to civic and provincial governments?

Donald Methuen Fleming: What amounts of bonds issued or guaranteed by the Dominion of Canada were purchased by months, in the year 1947, by the Bank of Canada and each of the other government boards or commissions or departments authorized to purchase government bonds?



NATIONAL FILM BOARD-TELEPHONES

Mr. FRASIER:: 1.	What department of the government pays for the phones used by the national film board?
2.	What department of the government pays for the long-distance telephone calls made by the national film board and its employees?
3.	How many telephones were there in the offices of the national film board jn Ottawa during 1947?
4.	What was the total cost for the telephone service for these telephones in 1947?

Orders for Returns
5.	What was the total cost of the long-distance *calls made on these telephones in 1947?
6.	What authority is required in order that an employee of the national film board can make a long-distance call at government expense?
7.	What was the total cost of all telephones in use by the national film board and its employees outside of Ottawa during 1947?
8.	What government department paid for this?
9.	What was the total cost of the long-distance calls made on behalf of the national film board on telephones outside of Ottawa during 1947?



INSPECTION BOARD OF CANADA

Mr. LEONARD:: 1.	How many people were in the employ of the inspection board of Canada on December 31, 1947, and what are their salaries?
2.	W'ho is the chairman of the board; who are the directors of the different departments of this board and what are their salaries?
3.	What are the duties at the present time?
4.	Have any new appointments been made to the board since March 31. 1947?
5.	If so, have these appointees seen overseas service?
6.	What is location of present personnel by provinces ?


Hugues Lapointe: Return tabled.



NATIONAL FILM BOARD

[Stage Direction]
Mr. FRASER;
1.	How many (a) men; (b) women, were
employed by the national film board in Canada during 1947?	.
2.	Were any officers or agencies maintained by the national film board outside Canada during 1947?
3.	If so (a) where were they located; (b) what was the cost of each; (c) what was the total amount of salaries paid by the national film board to employees in these offices?
4.	How many (a) men; (b) women were employed by the national film board outside of Canada during 1947?
5.	What are (a) the names; (b) duties;
(c)	salaries; (d) expenses of such employees during the said year?
6.	What are the names of all employees serving with the national film board, in Canada during the year 1947, and what amount was paid to each of them in salary and expenses during the said year?
Robert Henry Winters: Return tabled.



PUBLIC SERVICE-APPOINTMENTS TO POSITIONS WITH SALARY OB ALLOWANCE OF $4,000 OR MORE

Mr. HAMEL:: 1.	Since July 23. 1947, how many civil servants have been appointed by the government of Canada, or any board, commission or agency thereof, to positions with a salary or allowance of $4,000 or more per annum?
2.	What is (a) the name; (b) the salary or allowance; (c) the office of each of the above-mentioned civil servants?
3.	On what date was each of them appointed?


Colin William George Gibson: Return tabled.



HORSE MEAT

Frank Exton Lennard: How much horse meat was exported from Canada to European countries for human consumption during 1947; to what countries was it exported and in what quantities to each country?



FERTILIZER INGREDIENTS

[Stage Direction]
Mr. McCULLOUGH (Assiniboia);
1.	What were the different fertilizer ingredients imported into Canada during the year 1947?
2.	What were the respective amounts in each case, and from what countries were these ingredients imported?

Mr. McCULLOUGH (Assiniboia):: 1.	Were any shipments of arms and ammunition to China made during the year 1947?
2.	If so, how many ships were used in such shipments?
3.	What types of ammunition and other equipment were contained in these cargoes?
IMMIGRATION, 1947 Mr. FLEMING:
1.	How many persons immigrated into Canada in 1947?
2.	How were they divided as to (a) country of origin; (b) sex; (c) occupational classification;
(d)	age?
3.	How many were displaced persons and how were they distributed (a) by provinces; (b) by occupational assignment?



VETERANS AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT-TORONTO

Mr. FLEMING:: 1.	How many persons were in the employ of the Department of Veterans Affairs at Toronto on November 1, 1947?
2.	How many persons were in the employ of the Department of Veterans Affairs at Toronto on January 31, 1948?
3.	How many of the employees of the Department at Toronto were discharged or given notice of discharge in the period from November 1, 1947, to January 31, 1948?
4.	How many of such discharged employees were (a) over 40 years of age; (b) over 50 years of age?



FEDERAL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES IN HALIFAX

Mr. ISNOR:: 1.	What was the total number of federal government employees employed in Halifax as at December 31, 1947, showing (a) how many male; (b) how many female; (c) marital status;
(d)	government branch to which attached; (e) salary groups (not necessarily individual salaries) ?
2.	How many were released or notified concerning release since January 1, 1948?
3.	How many new employees have been engaged since January 1, 1948?

Inquiries oj the Ministry



VETERANS' LAND ACT-APPLICATIONS

Mr. McCULLOUGH (Assiniboia):: 1.	How many applications have been made, by provinces, under the Veterans' Land Act, 1942?
2.	How many of these applications has been inspected, and veteran settlement taken place?



CIVIL SERVICE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. DOUGLAS G. ROSS (St. Paul's): I should like to direct a question to one of the ministers, I do not know just which one. Having in mind the increases in salaries which have been granted to civil servants and the fact that others are under review, have any increases been made in the allowances to superannuated civil servants, or has the government in contemplation the increasing of these allowances?
Colin William George Gibson: In the absence of the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) I would say that no increase in the allowances to superannuated civil servants has been authorized, and any policy of the government that may be forthcoming will be announced in due course.



INCOME TAX


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. T. J. BENTLEY (Swift Current):: I should like to ask the Minister of Finance or his parliamentary assistant a question of which I have sent him notice. Will the minister inform the house if any compulsory savings are being retained to offset arrears of income taxes and, if so, by what authority?


Hon. J. J. McCANN (Minister of National Revenue):: The answer to the first question is yes. The authority is order in council P.C. 28, dated January 8, 1948.



FLOOD CONTROL


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. D. S. HARKNESS (Calgary East):: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Transport. In view of the serious flooding last night and the night before of the Bow

river at Calgary, which rendered a number of' people homeless, and in view of the fact that my question in regard to this matter has been passed as an order for return, will the minister make a statement, either now or tomorrow, as to what the federal government will do to. prevent the formation of ice jams which cause this flooding, or to provide for the dispersal of the water?	[DOT]


Lionel Chevrier: I am not aware of the condition to which my hon. friend refers, and I doubt whether it is a matter which concerns the department over which I preside. I shall be glad to look into it to see if I can give him an answer tomorrow.
(Translation):



RAILWAYS

[Stage Direction]
SHORTAGE OF CARS FOR THE SHIPPING OF PAPER: AND ALUMINUM
On the orders of the day:
Mr. PAUL-EDMOND GAGNON (Chicoutimi) : Mr. Speaker, as several industries in my constituency have already ceased to operate or are threatened with a shut-down because of a shortage of cars, would the hon. Minister of Transport (Mr. Chevrier) kindly tell me what steps have been taken to despatch towards the Chicoutimi district an adequate number of railway cars for the shipping of paper and aluminum?
Lionel Chevrier: Mr. Speaker, representations on this matter have already come to me from the hon. member for Lake St. John-Roberval (Mr. Dion). The situation referred to by the hon. member for Chicoutimi is not as serious as newspaper reports make out. According to information before me, 140 freight cars, instead of 185 as formerly, are now despatched daily to the Quebec paper mill districts, including the Lake Saint John area. The trouble is not so much a shortage of freight cars as a scarcity of locomotives. At this season hauling power is much less because at 40 below locomotives cannot operate as efficiently as in milder weather. Even now 32 Canadian National cars reach the Dolbeau, River Bend, Port Alfred and Kenogami plants daily. I am further informed that 234 of this railway's freight cars now in the Quebec district will be despatched to these factories as soon as weather permits.

Prices Committee
(Text):



COARSE GRAINS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. E. G. McCULLOUGH (Assiniboia):: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Agriculture, of which I have already sent him notice. What action, if any, does the government contemplate in regard to the heavy losses sustained by western farmers who sold their coarse grains prior to the lifting of the ceilings?


Right Hon. J. G. GARDINER (Minister of Agriculture):: The statement which I made earlier in the session on this question still holds, namely, that the grain companies and the pools are contemplating making a settlement based upon the experience which they have had. I am told by the pools that it will be impossible for them to make settlement until after they have dealt with the grain that has been sold for future delivery, but that eventually they will make settlement. The Pioneer Grain Company has already made settlement to the extent of twelve cents a bushel on oats and ten cents a bushel on barley, as an interim payment. That is the first move that has been made by the line companies; no action has yet been taken by the pools. The government will consider the matter as soon as it is possible to do so after such action is taken.



APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO PRICE INCREASES AND MATTERS PERTAINING THERETO

[Stage Direction]
The house resumed from Tuesday, February 3, consideration of the motion of Mr. Mackenzie King that a select committee be appointed to examine and report on the causes of the recent rise in the cost of living and matters pertaining thereto.
Mr.  M. J. COLD WELL@Rosetown-Biggar: Mr. Speaker, certain facts have emerged out of the debate which has taken place in this house during the past two days which the members of my party view with a great deal of gravity. We have felt from the outset that the setting up of a committee is not the kind of action which the country needs at the present time. We have felt that this committee will delay effective action on the part of the government in meeting the situation
which has arisen and which is continuing to grow worse from week to week and from month to month.


An hon. MEMBER:: Oh, no.


Mr.  M. J. COLD WELL@Rosetown-Biggar: Someone says, "Oh, no," but may I say that at three o'clock this afternoon the wires carried the new cost of living index for December. On December 1, 1947, the cost of living index stood at 146; on January 2, 1948, a month later, it had risen to 148-3. The increase in the month of December was 2-3 points. The higher prices for food that have been prevailing for a month are not reflected in the cost of living index which was issued this afternoon. I think this highlights the necessity for the government's taking effective action, not for the setting up of a committee.
Reference has been made to the price spreads committee of 1934. I looked up the record to see how long it took that committee to make its report. On February 2, 1934, just fourteen years ago to the very day that we began to discuss the resolution now before us, the order of reference for the setting up of the committee passed this house. On February 22, twenty days later, the first meeting was held. The last meeting was on June 22, 1934. Then, as hon. members will recall, the committee became the royal commission. On October 30, 1934, the royal commission met for the first time. On February 1, 1935, one year later, the last meeting of the commission was held, and on April 9, 1935, it reported. Confirmation of what I have said will be found in the report of the commission which I have before me.
The occasion for the appointment of the price spreads committee arose through certain charges made by a then minister of the crown, Hon. H. H. Stevens, regarding Canadian industry. Mr. Stevens, as a minister, having made charges, naturally set out to substantiate them. In other words, officers of the department and other officials available to the minister and the committee were definitely in the position of desiring to produce evidence and to confirm certain statements that had been made about the depressed price levels of 1934. The situation today is entirely different. The government now in office has allowed the cost of living to rise month by month until in the month of December last it increased by the phenomenal percentage of 2-3. Therefore the conditions surrounding the setting up of this committee are in that respect different from those which existed at the time of the appointment of the price spreads committee in 1934.
Prices Committee

Various members of the opposition sitting on this side of the house have endeavoured to enlarge the scope of the present committee and empower it to make recommendations, but such requests from this side of the house have been denied. True, the amendment and subamendment were ruled out of order, but I submit, Mr. Speaker, that we might not have been ruled out of order. The question of the validity of the amendment and of the subamendment would not have arisen had their validity not been challenged by the government. Consequently the opposition in this house has the right, I think, to feel angry at the situation at whidh we find ourselves, and the country has the right to feel as the opposition does, for the country is asking for bread in a very real sense, Mr. Speaker, and what .they are getting is a stone. They are asking for action, and they are getting a committee.
All the facts that this committee could, find Should now be in the possession of the government or departments of government. If further facts need to be established, all the machinery necessary to that end is available. The Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) himself stated in 1934 when the price spreads committee was under discussion that under the Combines Investigation Act all the power existed that was necessary, and the right hon. gentleman added that he knew that was so because he himself had been, if not wholly, at least largely responsible for the drafting of that act. Consequently we have there the machinery which should have been used ever since the price level began to rise, and it should be used now.
I do not think that the opposition in this house should be placed in the position of having to accept a committee which has no power to make recommendations, or one which is to exercise a function which should be fulfilled through the machinery of the Combines Investigation Act and the wartime prices and trade board. The government has all the power and assistance it requires now. This house in December last voted to extend the government's emergency powers until March 31, and I have no doubt that when the time comes the house will extend those powers until March 31, 1949, or until such time as those powers may no longer be required to protect the interests of the people. Why does not the government use the power it has? Why does it seek to set up a committee which will in all probability be used very largely to divert public attention from the real issue, the increase in the cost of living? I will not say it is done for that purpose, but

the government, I say, is shelving the responsibility which is properly that of the government, and, sir, I make this statement, that under the circumstances the members on the opposition side would' be quite justified in saying to the government: We are going to be no party to this manoeuvre; we have no desire to participate in a committee of this description. I think the opposition would be justified in saying that to the government at this time. I feel very strongly about this, because the people need the protection that the government is ndt giving.
The Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. St. Laurent), in a speech made in this house the other evening, outlined what the government had done during the war to keep down prices and prevent inflationary price levels. He made a splendid defence of the use of the powers which this house granted to the government as late as last December. If that could be done on former occasions it could have been done ever since it became evident that the cost of living was on the increase to the degree to which it has risen. I have already mentioned that there was an increase of 2-3 in the cost of living in the month of December last. In the year between January 1, 1947, and January 1, 1948, the increase in the cost of living was 21-3 points.


Mr. BURTON:: Orderly decontrol!


Mr.  M. J. COLD WELL@Rosetown-Biggar: My hon. friends says orderly decontrol; I would call it a disorderly rise in the cost of living, which should have been prevented. What the country needs, Mr. Speaker, is not a committee. What it needs is action, and I again throw out the suggestion to this house which I have already made that under the circumstances we on the opposition side of the house should not be expected to be a party to inaction which may delay a solution of this problem.
I want to place our view before the house in the form of an amendment. I move, seconded by the hon. member for Vancouver East (Mr. Maclnnis):
That all the words after the word "that" be struck out and the following he substituted therefor:
this house is of the opinion that the present crisis demands and the people of Canada want not a parliamentary committee but action by the government to restore price controls and subsidies.
That is what the country needs and what the country is asking for. We on this side of the house should not be a party to allowing the government to hide behind a parliamentary committee.

Prices Committee


Mr. BRACKEN:: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, last night Your Honour ruled out an amendment to the motion and an amendment to the amendment. I express no opinion today as to whether this amendment is in order or not, but I suggest that if it is not in order, Your Honour ought to give your decision now so that the house may be saved the time of the debate on the amendment to the motion.


James Horace King: Order. I understand that what the leader of the opposition has just said is not an order to the Speaker to make a ruling, but a suggestion that the ruling be made at the earliest possible time. The leader of the opposition will understand that before giving a ruling the Speaker has to take his time to consider whether the amendment is in order or not. The house may rest assured that I shall give my ruling ont this amendment as soon as possible.


Mr. J. L. GIBSON (Comox-Alberni):: Mr. Speaker, yesterday was a very unusual day for me in the house. To be quite frank, I think that for the first time I heard an hon. member of the C.C.F. party make what I consider to be a politically honest and intelligent statement of fact. I refer particularly to the speech of the hon. member for Vancouver East, (Mr. Maclnnis), and I am especially happy that it was a British Columbia member from among his group who made that statement. Despite all that his colleagues and confreres said, which would indicate that his party felt that profits alone were the cause of the high cost of living in Canada, I find that the hon. member for Vancouver East has finally been realistic and has admitted, I hope on behalf of his party, that the basic cause of rising prices is the world's shortage of goods coupled with the high effective demand.


Mr. COLD  WELL@: That is right.


John Lambert Gibson: As I said, I believe that is an honest statement of fact and I congratulate the hon. member on having made it. I should like to think that finally the C.C.F. party may be taking the kindly advice I offered them last December, that they at least try to appeal to the more intelligent segment of the Canadian electors.


Mr. IRVINE:: That would leave you out.


John Lambert Gibson: I know that hon. members of the opposition groups are objecting to the setting up of this committee. This committee will be particularly useful if it only gives opportunity to hon. members of the C.C.F group to bring before this committee these profiteers who, they seem to be so sure, are in great numbers here in Canada.
5849-55	*


Mr. MacINNIS:: Page the Minister of Labour and the Minister of Transport.


John Lambert Gibson: I must confess I am very much surprised that hon. members in all parties opposite are asking that this committee be given power to recommend a solution of our problems in the vaster field of government action, and bring in recommendations to this house. I am quite sure that none of the hon. members is so politically naive as to think any recommendation brought in by this so-called committee, this, may I say, junior cabinet committee, will reflect anything but government policy, because if you will look over the personnel of the committee I think you will find a very high sprinkling of parliamentary assistants. My experience with parliamentary assistants has been, of course, that they listen to the advice of the senior members of the cabinet to a great degree; and the government having a majority on this committee, any recommendations that it would bring in would unquestionably be influenced, might I say. by what the senior members of the cabinet felt about the situation-


Mr. HOMUTH:: Why have a committee?


John Lambert Gibson: I might tell the hon. member for Waterloo South that I think the committee will serve a very useful purpose, if only to give C.C.F. members of this house an opportunity to bring these miscreants rvhom they speak of so often before the committee and probe the facts. I myself am very anxious to find out who these people are. After the committee establishes who they are, I shall not have anything to do with them in the line of business.
The problem which is facing the Canadian people at the present time is one that calls for action, and prompt action, by the senior cabinet. I do not think there is any point in our waiting for a junior cabinet committee to bring recommendations to the house. The time has now arrived for action to be taken by the government. Let me suggest to my hon. friends what I feel might do some good. I think the sales tax might be drastically cut in this country. That eight per cent sales tax is compounded until by the time it reaches the consumer it contributes, in many instances, about fifteen per cent to our cost of living. Because of their very high revenues, the government could very well cut that tax.


Karl Kenneth Homuth: Come over on this side, Johnny.


John Lambert Gibson: Subsidies have been suggested. At the same time there is some validity in the government considering that suggestion. I myself have opposed
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any permanent policy of subsidies in this country, because, despite the views of my Social Credit friends, I believe subsidy payments are an unsound method of financing business, but at the present time I believe there is a place for them in our economy.


Mr. LOW:: They are being used in tariffs all the time.
.Mr. GIBSON (Comox-Alberni): This is a critical emergency, particularly for those on fixed incomes and pension. We are in an emergent situation, and I would suggest that the government should explore the possibility of using subsidies purely as an emergency measure..
We have a tremendous surplus in Canada. Sometimes it is said that we shall have a surplus of $900 million. Then, in case we show a tendency to inquire about it, the government points out that our cash income is not represented by $900 million because we are lending large sums of money to Europe. I wish we would finally get down to a sound basis in our accounting system in Canada. If it is loans that we are making to Europe we ought to treat them as loans. If the government is a little hesitant about whether they will ever be repaid, probably it should approach this house first to ship supplies to Europe in the form of gifts. I do not think we should try to fool ourselves. The government takes the position that we are lending this food to Europe, but at the same time it nays that our $900 million surplus should be kept in reserve in case these loans are not repaid. Personally I should like to find out what we are doing at the present time. I should like to have the views of the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) and the government on how they feel about this whole business proposition. It seems to me that we could use a little of this money on this problem of the high cost of living. I find that you can cure most things with money, but not all. We have $900 million which I believe would do a great deal to meet the situation confronting our war pensioners and people on low fixed income.
I am very much concerned about the possibility of the Minister of Finance taking this $900 million or $800 million and giving it to Graham Towers in -the Bank of Canada. Where does this $800 million or $900 million come from?


An hon. MEMBER:: From the taxpayers.


John Lambert Gibson: It came from the taxpayers of this country. But I would point out another thing. It is tangible proof-I was going to say in hard money,

but it is fairly soft money at the present time-of the fact that inflation has got away from us to the extent of approximately $650 million more than the Minister of Finance realized this time last year.
The government, as everyone is willing to concede, is the largest shareholder in every corporation in Canada through the collection of income tax. It is in the fortunate position of being the senior partner in every successful commercial organization in the country. When there is a profit it moves in and takes approximately half. I have seen a recent statement of a very large lumber producing company in British Columbia that they had made $7,000,000 in profit.


An hon. MEMBER:: Net.


John Lambert Gibson: I would
point out that the Minister of Finance was the senior beneficiary of that operation because he also received approximately $7,000,000 out of the forest wealth of British Columbia. That was a windfall that neither he nor the government expected. I feel that the government, having benefited from this inflation and having had this windfall, should do everything in its power to use that money to take care of those who have suffered from inflation in Canada. When I hear a statement such as was made by the Prime Minister on December 19 last, on veterans' pensions- and veterans are probably the greatest sufferers from the present inflation-I do not think that is the kind of policy which this government should follow.
Probably it would be a wise thing for the government to say, "We will take half a billion and try to make up to the people of Canada for the suffering they have gone through. We will use those funds to make it up to them". That money is not the government's money. It is held in trust for the people of Canada, and I suggest that a senior committee of the cabinet should explore every possibility of going back to some system of subsidy on the basic commodities in the cost of living in this country.
I am rather a junior member here, and I have not the temerity to offer political advice to one who is probably the most astute politician that this or any other country has ever seen.


Solon Earl Low: He should not object.


John Lambert Gibson: However,
perhaps I might be allowed to say this. The leader of the C.C.F. party threw out a challenge to the government to call the three by-elections that are due in Canada. I suggest to the Prime Minister that, before he

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does that, he should use some of these extra funds that have been, derived from the processes of inflation and do something to subsidize food costs, and that he should also make a further statement on what he intends to do with regard to veterans' pensions.


Mr. C. E. JOHNSTON (Bow River):: I had thought at first that I might try to improve the resolution of the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) by way of amendment; but I am now convinced, seeing that others have made a concerted effort to broaden the scope of the present motion, that the chances would be remote that any amendment we might offer would be accepted. It is my opinion that the Prime Minister is quite determined that the resolution shall stand as it is. That, I think, is unfortunate for several reasons which I shall try to give as I go along.
I can only agree with many of the remarks that have already been made, and particularly the reference to action. I am quite convinced that the people of Canada are concerned about the rapid rise in the cost of living. The Prime Minister must be aware of that fact or he would not have seen fit to introduce the resolution now before us. But I believe the Prime Minister and the people are also aware that this tremendous rise in the cost of living is not something that has happened only recently. It is something that has existed for a period of years. The rise in the cost of living has been a continuing process now for a long period of time, and particularly since the end of the war.
Take agricultural products. I suggest that one thing that the people are concerned about is, not the fact that agricultural products have risen so high, but the fact that the people themselves have not enough purchasing power to buy those products at present costs. I maintain that prices of agricultural products are not in themselves too high when one considers the costs of production and the necessity of giving to the farmer a fair return on the commodities he produces. I am firmly convinced, however, that the money, the purchasing power, in the hands of the people does not enable them to purchase food commodities at present daily prices.
It is a fact, which has been drawn to my attention, particularly in my own city of Calgary, that a great number of people, a great number of veterans too, may I add, are finding it - impossible to live on $35 a week and raise a family. These people have come to me not singly but by the dozen complaining, and their complaint is that they cannot get along on the amount of money they receive. That is something which it does not 5849-55J
take a committee to investigate. The government itself has the machinery whereby it can ascertain the same thing at any time.
In the remarks that were made the other day a distinction was drawn between world conditions at the time the price spreads committee was set up and the conditions that prevail today. One of the ministers said that the situation was entirely different, that that was in a period of depression and falling prices. I would point out to the Prime Minister, however, that even at that time the people found themselves in the same difficulty that exists today, because in 1934 they were faced with exactly the same situation from the point of view of purchasing power. They did not have at that time the purchasing power to pay the prices that were being asked even then. The conditions which brought about the results might have been different, but the results were the same so far as the consuming public was concerned.
I think the Prime Minister would be well advised to rectify some of the things I am now pointing out, resulting from low purchasing power in the hands of the people. Take, for instance, old age pensions. I am sure the Prime Minister will agree with me that it does not take a committee of the house or a royal commission to come to the conclusion that the purchasing power in the hands of old age pensioners, on the basis of their pensions, is certainly not sufficient to buy food, clothing and shelter at present prices. It simply cannot be done, and we do not need a committee to investigate that.
Take veterans' allowances. The government knows what the situation is. Indeed, it has made provision for assisting veterans, especially those going to university; or, if it has not already done so, it is considering the question. There again, however, I point to the fact that the government has the machinery to investigate these cases as well. We do not need a committee for that purpose. I think one of the best ways to increase the purchasing power of the people in order to meet the tremendous costs, of which we are all cognizant, would be to increase the family allowance. At this moment I am not going to argue whether the way the money was raised in order to give family allowances the proper way. I think another way could have been found; but I think the underlying principle of a family allowance to supplement wages, salaries and commissions is entirely sound. The government could increase those allowances; as the last speaker pointed out, they have a tremendous surplus and that money could be used for that purpose. This action would not
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require any committee or commission,, but it would bring immediate results.
A great deal of attention has been devoted to the difference between the price spreads committee and the committee being set up under this motion. I wish to refer to that point again, even though some of what I have to say may be repetition. I have gone very carefully over all the speeches made in this house when the price spreads committee was set up in 1934, and it is my view that the committee was set up at that time to investigate the same sort of thing this new committee will be investigating. In fact at that time they went much farther in investigating causes than the present committee is being permitted to go, if it is set up at all. For instance, in 1934 the spread being investigated was between the wages the workers were receiving and the prices they had to pay for the goods when they were produced. There was a tendency toward lower wages. The cost of material entered into the question; the cost of financing entered into it; the cost of overhead entered into it. However, there was that difference, and at that time they merely referred to it as a price spread.
Under the present resolution we are undertaking an investigation into the causes of the recent rise in the cost of living. The costs are exactly the same. Those costs may be greater, as the resolution indicates, because some of these products have been withheld from the market, thereby forcing up the price. Cost factors will come into the picture; interest charges will come into the picture; yet it has been indicated by ministers of the crown that there is no intention of allowing this committee to investigate the financing of companies across this country. I maintain that you cannot find out the cost factors unless you go into all these matters. It has already been indicated by the government that labour conditions will not be investigated. The price spreads committee did investigate the labour factor in regard to the rise in costs. In any cost investigation, whether it be called the cost of living or the price spread, I do not think you can eliminate these necessary factors and say the committee shall not have power to go into them.
When I was reading over the speech of the present Prime Minister in reference to the setting up of the price spreads committee I noticed that he pointed out this very fact, suggesting to the then prime minister how important it was that the committee should look into the method employed by various companies in financing their operations. He pointed out that watered stock might be one cause; that floating large bond issues might be another

cause; that borrowing money at high rates of interest might be another. I have the volume of Hansard before me, with the page marked, but I need not bother reading it because it has already been put on record. Therefore, when one realizes that the work to be done by these two committees is so very similar, one wonders why the Prime Minister takes such objection to having the scope of the present committee enlarged so as to be able to do the work expected of it.
I now want to say a word about the power of the committee itself. The price spreads committee was given much greater power than the present committee. In my view it is wrong to tie the hands of a committee before it even starts work. I am to be a member of the committee, and I can foresee some of the difficulties that will be met. Both committees, it is true, were given power to send for persons, papers and records and of course that is absolutely necessary for any committee. But the price spreads committee had power to form a commission, if they considered it necessary, to investigate, for instance, labour problems. It was recognized in 1934 that a committee of this house could not possibly have the time to investigate all the cost factors that would arise as a result of labour conditions. I am sure the present committee would not have that time, either. Mr. Bennett, who was prime minister in 1934, went so far as to say he agreed that the committee would not have time at its disposal to make these separate investigations which in his view, as well as in the view at that time of the present Prime Minister, would be necessary to determine all the cost factors; so that the committee itself was given power to create commissions. I do not think it would be going too far to give the present committee power to set up a commission, if that were considered necessary. Of course I know the Prime Minister's reply to that. He will say, "Well, we have the Combines Investigation Act," and I intend to speak about that in a few moments.
Then, this committee is to have power to report its findings to the house. That was also true in 1934, but the present committee falls short in that it cannot make recommendation. The Prime Minister said he did not feel that this committee

I was going to say any committee, but that would not be right-should be asked to make recommendations. I disagree with that view. I believe the committee should make recommendations, and very strong recommendations, if it comes to a point where that is considered necessary. I was on the war expenditures committee, and I well recall that we came across matters which needed immediate attention. The committee made recom-

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mendations to the government, who took action immediately. It was not necessary to form a royal commission to investigate those matters. Some of those recommendations were even telephoned or wired back to the government, when the committee was meeting outside Ottawa. So that I believe this committee will be greatly handicapped if it has not power to make recommendations. Of course it can report. All committees report to the house from time to time, but it seems to me that when we take away the power of recommendation we are absolutely killing the effect of the committee.
When you compare the price spreads committee of 1934 and the prices committee of 1948 you find that the work involved is almost the same; that is, it is an investigation into the rise in costs. I do not care whether you call it a spread or a rise; it is the difference between what an article should be sold for and what it is being sold for. But while the work of both committees is the same, the hands of the present committee are tied to such an extent that it cannot begin to perform the sort of duty which was performed by the price spreads committee. I think it is wrong when you shackle the hands of a committee before it even gets started. Generally speaking, I would say that the scope of this resolution is entirely too narrow. For instance, the Prime Minister pointed out that it is factfinding committee. It is true that, at least to some extent every committee of the house is a fact-finding committee; otherwise it would not be appointed. Each committee investigates some condition or another, and the purpose of a committee is to find facts. Therefore that is nothing new when applied to any committee.
Then the Prime Minister referred to the function of the Combines Investigation Act. He pointed out to the late Viscount Bennett, when he was prime minister in 1934, that the Combines Investigation Act was sufficiently broad to take in- any and' all of the things which a committee set up at that- time was expected to take in. What the Prime Minister has said in that regard has, in part, been placed on the record orally. However, I believe I should go to the extent of placing on Hansard the exact words of the Prime Minister, so that there may be no suggestion of any attempt to alter the phrasedlogy used at that time.
May I point out that, in my view, the Prime Minister's statement of that day was sound, but for the life of me I cannot see why he now takes the opposite view. To my mind, the work of the committee of that day and of the one now proposed is identical, with
the exception that the earlier committee set up to investigate price spreads and mass buying was given a much wider scope in its methods of investigation than is the one now proposed.
As reported at page 191 of Hansard for February 2, 1934, the Prime Minister said:
There is one other aspect which I think is perhaps even more important. It is that the government has already legislation available to deal with matters of this kind, if it will view the whole question sympathetically.
And then, this important statement:
Legislation is one thing, but the administration of existing law is quite another.
I contend, holding the same view as the Prime Minister held at that time, that the legislation is there, and if the government wishes to take a sympathetic view it has the machinery right now to do everything it expects this committee to do. Then he went on to say:
I do not think one need go beyond what has taken place in the last three or four years to recognize very clearly that no matter what the laws may be, unless the department of the government that administers them is wholly sympathetic with the object in view, the law will serve very little purpose. We have on the statutes a Combines Investigation Act which provides all the machinery necessary for the purpose of making the fullest possible kind of inquiry into any matter preventing or lessening competition or restraining trade.
Cost factors do restrain trade, and they are mentioned in the resolution. Hoarding is in restraint of trade; that, too, is mentioned in the resolution. Then he goes on to say:
. . . effective machinery, machinery giving all the powers and affording as well all the safeguards needed in connection with inquiry into matters of this land.
Then, if that was not sufficient, the Prime Minister further emphasized the point by saying, as reported at page 192:
May I add that the Combines Investigation Act contains within its provisions ample powers for all the investigation that need be made to guide the government in the matter of further legislation? The legislation is already therq, we do not need to wait for a committee of this house to report on these matters. There _ is ample provision in the act for conducting inquiry if the government is really in earnest.
The Prime Minister should take that to heart. If the government is really in earnest, the machinery is there; the government knows the causes and should do something about the matter. Then he states further, in the next column:
The public are looking at this session not for further inquiry or further royal commissions, but for action in the nature of legislation.
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I do not think I could express that thought nearly as effectively as the Prime Minister did on that occasion. I believe, with the Prime Minister, that there is sufficient legislation and sufficient power in the hands of the government to make any inquiry and any law it desires to make, and to take any action it desires to take. I have pointed out some of the ways in which I believe the condition could be rectified immediately.
Some observations have been made concerning the formation of the committee. I can see both advantages and disadvantages in having a committee of this kind, and I have pointed out some of them. However, one thing of which we must be most careful is that we shall not have a delaying action. The government must do something now; and then, if it likes, let the committee proceed with its investigation, because it will take a long time for the committee to reach the point where it can make an intelligent report back to the house.
It has been said by some hon. members, and in particular by the leader of the C.C.F. party, that large profits are being made. I believe large profits have been made, and I agree with the hon. member in that respect, although I am not in a position to prove it. I can merely make that assertion, and I believe the Minister of Labour (Mr. Mitchell) expressed himself in a similar fashion. This committee would give a first-class opportunity to the Minister of Labour and the leader of the C.C.F. to bring their statements to light, not only for the information of parliament but for that of the people of Canada at large. I am sure it would have a great effect in the lowering of prices.
I do not believe, however, that the mere procedure of holding those people up as an example would be sufficient. If a concern dealing in that fashion is caught, it should be treated accordingly.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Do the terms of reference allow for inquiry into profits?


Charles Edward Johnston: No, they do not; and that is the very point to which I have been referring. I mentioned a while ago that the Prime Minister himself, speaking with respect to the price spreads and mass buying committee, took exception to the action taken by the late Viscount Bennett, by stating that there should be an extension of the powers of the committee then proposed, and suggesting that its powers should be extended to the point of examining into the financing of the companies involved. I believe that was necessary then, and that it is just as necessary today; because, if we are to find out whether or not there has been profiteering, we must

go into all aspects of the matter, and that will take time. If it should develop that the leader of the C.C.F. or the Minister of Labour can prove his charges, then appropriate action should be taken, and I urge that the powers of the committee be extended to give that opportunity.
The question of controls has been discussed. I cannot see why the committee should not have the power to recommend to the government the continuation of controls, if it thinks such action is necessary. I have always held the view that necessaiy controls should be retained, and that necessary subsidies should be applied. But controls, for the mere sake of controlling, will not get us anywhere or solve our problems. The same applies to subsidies. We have pointed out on many occasions where, in our view, the government has removed subsidies too rapidly.
May I refer more specifically to the resolution? The leader of the Social Credit party (Mr. Low) pointed out the other day that there were certain changes which he thought should be made. He stated that at the appropriate time we would offer amendments, but it is quite evident that it would be a useless waste of the time of the House of Commons to move any amendment to this resolution. We considered them worthwhile. There were some things which the leader of this party thought should be done.
One was that the word "recent" should be deleted from the resolution. I think that word was put in intentionally; in fact the Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. St. Laurent) said that it was. The first paragraph of the resolution reads:
(a) the causes of the recent rise in the cost of living.
As soon as I read that, I wondered why the word "recent" was there. Everyone knows that the causes of the rise in tie cost of living are not a recent thing; they have -been in existence for some length of time. When the minister was speaking the other day on that section he said, as reported on page 773 of Hansard of February 2, 1948:
The hon. member for Peace River (Mr. Low) suggests that the word "recent" should not be there. I can tell the hon. member that it was n-ot there in the first drafts that we had prepared. But you had to have some point from which -the rise started, and it was felt that it would be dangerous and hampering to insert any date, that it might well be left to the committee to determine what the public was concerned about, and that the time factor might very well vary according to the results of the investigation after it got under way. It was felt that a committee of this house could be trusted to construe that in a reasonable way to achieve for the Canadian- public what it would feel the Canadian public wished to know.

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It was no accident that the word "recent" was put in there. The minister said that it was necessary to have a time limit. It is quite evident that the government has in mind that the committee shall go back only so far, because the minister says that there must be a time limit. I can quite see why they did not want to put in a date because, if they had, they would be saying in effect that that was the deadline, that that was as far as the committee would dare go, that they could not go one hour beyond that. The majority of the committee being Liberal members, the government knows just how the word "recent" will be interpreted. There is no question about that. Just consider the contradictions in the minister's statement. He first said that there must be a deadline, and then he went on to say:
It was felt that a committee of this house co-uld be trusted to construe that in a reasonable way to achieve for the Canadian public what it would feel the Canadian public wished ito know.
If the committee could be trusted, why put a gun at its head and say, "Yes, we will trust you, but be careful what you do." That is exactly what the government do there. Not only are there restrictions as to the scope of the investigation; there is a time limit as well. The committee is to deal with only recent rises. Such an expression is ridiculous, and it ill becomes the Secretary of State for External Affairs to make such a statement to this house. It is just insulting the intelligence of hon. members when he says, on the one hand, that we must have a deadline and then, on the other, that surely we can trust the committee.
We thought, and we think yet, that the word "recent" should be struck out of the resolution. There is nothing in the resolution that so hinders the work. If this committee ever gets started to work, one of the things it will have to deal with is the causes of the rise in the cost of living, and if it is to investigate those causes, one of the things it will have to take into consideration is taxes. I think every hon. member on this side of the house and, I venture to say, a great many on the other side, have it in mind that one of the causes of the recent rise in the cost of living is the hidden nuisance taxes. The Secretary of State for External Affairs tried to ridicule that idea, and he mentioned liquor as an example. I think his example was ill chosen, because there is not a member in this house who does not agree with the minister in regard to that commodity. If people want to spend their money foolishly on liquor, then they should pay the taxes imposed on
liquor, but to compare the hidden taxes on liquor with the hidden taxes on the cost of living is a ridiculous thing to do. There is just no comparison at all. The minister quoted figures as to these hidden taxes but he did not give the whole picture by about S700 million. Perhaps he thinks that is close enough.
Another thing that I mentioned a while ago was the question of subsidies. If this committee ever goes to work, and I say that advisedly, it might find that same of the. costs are legitimate. For instance, it might find that the price of butter is legitimate, due to all the cost factors entering into its production. I am sure that the committee would find also that the purchasing power of the people is such that it does not permit them to buy butter at those prices. What are you going to do? I think the committee should be in a position to be able to suggest to the government and to this house what should be done. If the committee thinks subsidies provide a remedy, then the committee should have the power to make that recommendation. During the war we found that condition to be true. The government saw fit to pay subsidies after a great deal of persuasion, and they worked in keeping down the cost of living. If they worked, then there is no reason why they should not work now if they are handled judiciously and properly.
May I suggest that when you set up a committee of this type you must give it a broad field to investigate, and that will take a lot of time. My judgment is that one of the things causing an increase in prices is the trade agreements which we have entered into. My mind goes back to a year or so ago when we entered into agreements under Bretton Woods and Dumbarton Oaks. In passing, may I say that both the Conservative and C.C.F. parties agreed that the policy which the government was following then was the right one. By their agreeing they gave the government the green light to go ahead and put through the agreements, and I think it ill becomes those parties to criticize the government now for the action they took, especially when that action resulted in increased costs of living to our people.
One of the direct results of those trade agreements was the embargo placed on certain British goods coming into this country, and another direct result was the twenty-five per cent excise tax which added to the cost of living. Is that not a cost factor? Some of those who are complaining about the rise in costs are partly to blame for it and they must take their share of the responsibility.
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That is a matter which this committee should be permitted to investigate if it is to investigate the rise in the cost of living.
I have pointed) out the objections I have to this committee. Some advantages may come from its work, but there are a great many things to hamper its work. As a member of 'the committee I do not want to take part in any committee which will not be in a position to bring back to the house a decent, honest and constructive report. On every committee on which I have sat I have always done the best I could. I want to be in a position to do the same on this committee, and I am sure that the other members of the committee feel as I do.
I was much concerned the other day to hear one of the members of the committee who sits on the other side of the house objecting to the amendments that have been put forward to broaden the scope of the committee. He himself was one of the nine Liberal members who will constitute a majority on that committee, as against the seven other members, and naturally, therefore, the Liberal members on the committee will be in a position to interpret the word "recent" in such a way as to hamper the effectiveness of the committee's work. I would have thought he would have been willing to give the committee the largest possible scope so that it would be in a position to bring back to the house the most useful report it possibly could. I assure you, Mr. Speaker, that that will be the aim of this group, to bring back data which will be of a constructive nature. We have always endeavoured to take that stand. That is the stand we took on the removal of subsidies and on the Bretton Woods agreement, and we do not happen to have been wrong on that occasion, as later events proved.
I should like to see the government do something immediately about the cost of living, to increase the purchasing power of the people so that they can meet these increased costs. Then, if the government wants to go on and have an investigation, it should be undertaken with the sincere and earnest desire to get the best results possible.


Mr. J. G. DIEFENBAKER (Lake Centre):: Mr. Speaker, I am sure that every member of this house was moved by the declaration made by the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) when he introduced the resolution and asked, as reported at page 751 of Hansard, that all members of the house for the time being forget their party politics and do their utmost in connection with the investigation of this urgent and important problem. But then when we on this side of the house endeavoured to co-

operate by giving the committee the powers it should have to make recommendations, in order that we might make our contribution effective and do something constructive to meet the problem, the committee was hobbled by the narrow scope of the motion and denied the opportunity of getting down to essentials.
I cannot understand that attitude on the part of the Prime Minister. When the leader of the opposition (Mr. Bracken) moved an amendment which would enlarge the scope of the committee and bring it into line with the powers of other committees in the past, the attitude taken by the government was:	No;
you shall be hobbled; you shall be restrained; you shall make no recommendations whatsoever. The same attitude was taken by the government when the leader of the C.C.F. party moved a subamendment. Finally when the leader of the Social Credit party pointed out that the word "recent" in the terms of reference would deny any investigation beyond the immediate present, the Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. St. Laurent) said he would not accept that.
A non-political committee? A committee uncontrolled by the government? One of the ministers is chairman of the committee and four of the parliamentary assistants are members of it. I say to you, sir, that if the Prime Minister had intended to remove political considerations from this problem he would have had a committee set up which would have been equally representative of all parties in the house. He would not have proposed a committee which in the ordinary run of things would be dominated in whole or in part by the cabinet.


Mr. FRASER:: Party favourites.


John George Diefenbaker: The committee is set up by the government. Its minister of external affairs admits that the cost of living is a problem, but how it came about, he naively said, he did not know, and for that reason he found it necessary to speak to the house, not as a minister of the crown responsible to the people, but in the capacity of a common citizen of Canada. Sir, was there ever an admission made by a minister of the crown which was more condemnatory of the incompetence of the government he supports than the admission of the minister the other night? Here we are, he says, but we do not know how we got here; we do not know how we are going to get back, and as a common citizen, says the minister,
I would like the house to give me a few ideas, not how to get back to where wTe should be, but how we got where we are at the present time.



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[Stage Direction]
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I ask the Prime 'Minister when he replies to tell this house and the country why he denies to the members of the committee the right to make recommendations. I should have thought he would welcome recommendations. During the past few days some of his ministers have spoken. While the problem has been mounting and accelerating they have been travelling and making speeches. In every case where a committee has been set up by parliament to investigate prices such committee has been given the power to make recommendations. As was mentioned by the hon. member for Bow River (Mr. Johnston), a committee on price spreads was set up in 1934. That committee was given certain powers-I will read the exact words:
That the committee shall report to the house from time to time its findings, together with recommendations of such measures as in the opinion of the committee may be considered necessary to secure as far as possible fair and just practices in the distribution and marketing systems of Canada, with fair and just returns to producers, employees, and employers, not inconsistent with the rights of consumers.
The motion instructed the members of that committee to make recommendations. As was pointed out by the preceding speaker (Mr. Johnston), the Prime Minister, then leader of the opposition, said words to the effect that the committee was not needed. His conscience must have been bothering him, because when he made his opening speech on the motion it consisted of confession and avoidance in anticipation of criticism. The Prime Minister, on the motion now before us, said words to this effect; I know somebody will find out what I said in 1934; so he went into a lengthy disquisition, which would have done honour to a schoolman of the middle ages, in order to show the difference between conditions today and those in 1934. This is what he said in part in 1934, as reported at page 191 of Hansard of that year:
We have on the statutes a Combines Investigation- Act which provides all the machinery necessary for the purpose of making the fullest possible kind of inquiry into any matter preventing or lessening competition- or restraining trade.
I point out, too, sir, that also covers storage and hoarding. The Prime Minister went on and said: "What is really needed is sympathetic administration." Well, as I remember his speech on the night that his party came into power in 1935 if there was one thing more than another he was sympathetic to it was to the prosecution of monopoly privilege in this country. "A sympathetic administration"! Well, I should think that this government has had a sympathetic administration 5849-56
during the last few years. The Secretary of State for External Affairs formerly administered this act. Frankly the other night he did not know whether there was any evidence of exploitation1; he did not know whether anything had been done. He spoke as a common citizen of Canada. I wonder, sir, whether he did not speak as heir apparent?
Mr. ROSS (Souris):: Flying a kite.


John George Diefenbaker: I imagine, sir, what he would have said if he were on this side of the house and a committee were being set up with the power to be powerless. It is set up for the purpose of postponing action. The government is endeavouring by a subterfuge to get away from its responsibility of doing some-tiling, of having failed to do something in recent months. What the government is trying to do by this action is to smear somebody, to find a goat in order to get rid of its responsibility for failure to act.
I go back to 1919, and I may have an opportunity later to read some further statements made by the Prime Minister at that time. A committee was set up in 1919 to study the high cost of living. It was empowered to report to the house from time to time the results of its inquiry, with any recommendations the committee might wish to make with a view to effecting a reduction in prices and in rentals. Why does the Prime Minister not give this committee the legislative power that parliament can give to it, the power to act, if he wants action?
As I said a moment ago, the ministers do not know where they are going. The Minister of Justice (Mr. Ilsley) has not spoken yet. He presides over and is responsible under law for the administration of the Combines Investigation Act. Why does not he come in? Once it was said: "Speak of somebody and he is sure to appear". He is here now. I want him to tell the house and the country what has been done regarding the question of the high cost of living, what evidence the government has gathered together, what evidence the wartime prices and trade board is in a position to give, why during recent months there has in fact been little or no action taken by the board or the commissioner and his staff in connection with the Combines Investigation Act?
When the Prime Minister spoke the other day, in effect he said: What the government is going to achieve by this committee is this: by publicity we are going to frighten prospective wrongdoers. When Canada asked for action the Prime Minister gave them a discussion on morals. He said that if we went ahead under the Combines Investigation Act there would be obstacles in the way. That was an inter-
Prices Committee

esting statement. I quote from his remarks as reported at page 747 of Hansard:
There is a body of legislation already on the statute books of this country; but, as everyone knows, the minute an effort is made to set in motion some of this machinery, obstacles are raised from one side or another which tend to operate against speedjr and thorough action.
What are the obstacles? They are not on this side. What are the obstacles? Are there not the same obstacles in the way of the administration of this act as there were in instituting a prosecution against the dental corporations, when the people are questioning the prices of food and clothing? The Prime Minister continued;
Nothing will remove those obstacles so quickly as the power of a committee of this House of Commons to take up questions which affect the well-being of the people, something which adversely affects their lives.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Power of a committee which has no power.


John George Diefenbaker: These people who are profiteers-and if there be such they should be prosecuted-cannot be prosecuted, says the Prime Minister in effect, under the legislation which the Secretary of State for External Affairs two years ago said put real teeth in the act, not false teeth. The Prime Minister says there are obstacles in the way. I ask the Minister of Justice, were there any applications in the last year for the investigation of combines? What reports has the commissioner made to the minister as required by law? Has the Minister of Justice himself directed any inquiry against wrongdoers? These powers are given under that act. Have the provisions of the Inquiries Act been used? Two years ago the Secretary of State for External Affairs said; Give us the power and we will act. Two nights ago the minister said: I speak as a common citizen; I do not know whether anything can be done or has been done, and in common with other citizens of this dominion I should like to know whether anything can be done. It would be ludicrous if it were not so serious!
I ask the Minister of Justice, have any proceedings been taken, either in public or in private?-because under the Combines Investigation Act the commissioner has that power; or under the wartime prices and trade board whose administrator has the widest powers that anyone could have. At the risk of reiteration I am going to mention the powers the board is given and ask the Minister of Justice why, if there has been wrongdoing, have not these powers been used:
The board shall have power
(a) to investigate of its own motion or on complaint, costs, prices, profits and stocks of

goods and materials of any person engaged in the manufacture, importation, exportation, production, storage, transportation, supply or sale,
And so on. It covers everything that this committee is to be empowered to investigate, the only difference being that the commissioner can do something, whereas the committee can do nothing but report.
I ask the Minister o<f Justice, what has he done about section 8 '(1):
No person shall sell or offer for sale or supply any goods or services at a price that is higher than is reasonable and just, or withhold any goods or services from sale or supply for a price that is higher than is reasonable and just.
What has been done with that? The government had the machinery, said the Prime Minister in 1934. The only machinery that existed in 1934 was the machinery under t'he Combines Investigation Act. There is now additional machinery provided under the wartime prices and trade board, powers which were extended, as a result of the wishes of the government, until March 31 of this year.
The latest solution the Prime Minister offers is to call a committee of parliament together to sit and talk. They will sit and sift the evidence, and they might even shift the responsibility. When this committee starts to sit and to sift, how fearful the exploiters are going to be! I ask the Minister of Justice: Have you not been doing that ever since September? I have before me the Toronto Star of September 19. It is very close to sources that are close to the government. We can accept this. Here is what it said on that day:
Government rearguard action-
1 wonder what kind of action you call setting up a committee without power?
Government rearguard action against undue price increases in the wake of decontrol is being launched here through the wartime prices and trade board, and the combines investigation commission, official sources disclosed today.
What have they been doing in that regard? We have not heard the answer yet. We have heard from the heir apparent, and the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner)-may I say that we from Saskatchewan know he has never lost a convention. If I may read further from the newspaper. The policy was this:
The program is designed to "scare" business against unjustified price boosts by two methods: threat of investigation and exposure where a combine in restraint of trade as suspected, and the release of information to the public indicating just what price increases are justifiable.
Apparently the minister of external affairs has not got beyond September, because that is the same policy that he and the Prime Minister believe is going to work now-to scare by

Prices Committee
publicity. I ask the government:	How has
the policy worked out? How often have they used it? They seem to have the most widespread opportunity for publicity. When have they named wrongdoers? When have they scared those who exploit? Yet today they say that a committee of parliament will do that what they have been trying to do ever since September last-with what success?
Does the government know what to do? The Prime Minister says there are obstacles in the way, so the law cannot well be used. What are the obstacles? I thought all the obstacles had disappeared on election night in 1935. The minister of external affairs-I always have difficulty in following him in the game of musical chairs-made a speech in AVinnipeg, and this is his policy:
We do not wish to be vengeful in such prosecutions as may be instituted but we do wish Canadians to realize provisions in the wartime price and trade board regulations are still the law.
That was his policy. The Minister of Labour (Mr. Mitchell) came along last night, and I always like to hear him, because he is a breath of fresh air, no matter how trying he is to the government. He spoke too and announced the government's policy. Speaking in Quebec, he said:
The government intends to deal with them-
That is, the wrongdoers.
-as they should be dealt with. We must deal severely "with the greedy ones, no matter who they* are.
The minister of external affairs said we must not deal harshly with them, that all we want to do is to tell them about the wartime prices and trade board regulations. But the labour minister said we must deal severely with them. He continued:
It is this class which, more than anything else, threatens the future of the free enterprise system in Canada and in other parts of the world.
Then he announced the government's policy. There were different things we should do, but he believed there should be launched an educational campaign on the benefits of our way of life. One says, scare them by doing nothing; the other says, tell them what the law is; the third says, educate our people on Canada's way of life.
Then finally the Minister of Agriculture made a speech in Calgary. AVhat did he say? He was asked a question by the chairman of the Alberta wheat pool, whether the government was planning ceilings on wages and manufactured goods also. This was just January 19. And what was his answer? The answer was: "You would need the whole government 5849-561
to answer that". Then somebody said: "Would it help any if we went down there?" The answer was, "It might".
Here we are in the midst of the most difficult period in our history and the government sets up a committee. It asks parliament to set up a facsimile of power, a committee that will be powerless to act, a committee that will be gagged, its course predetermined.
Last night we had the sorriest picture of all, with a member of the committee saying that by amendment the house cannot add to the powers of the committee. We wanted an opportunity to go into these matters, to make a contribution, but the government says, "No. The committee shall be what we give you"- and it is a committee the like of which has never been set up in this country, with no power to bring in any recommendations. All it can do is sit and listen to evidence; and after it does that the Prime Minister says the government will know what to do. Mr. Speaker, Canada is entitled to know what has been done.
My hon. leader said something should be done about removing the sales tax. AVhat answer did he get from the Secretary of State for External Affairs? He did not deal with such things as food and clothing and the other things the ordinary man asks about today. He endeavoured to answer the argument by talking about liquor and cigarettes. Do those who suffer today because of high prices deserve to be treated with ridicule when they ask for relief? Again I go back to 1919. I have not time today to read anything more, but I have read some of the addresses of the then leader of the opposition, and I will refer to the dates so that those who wish may read his words for themselves. At that time, when the sales tax was one per cent, the then leader of the opposition, now the Prime Minister, pointed out how unfair it was. In 1921 he promised to remove the one per cent. In 1935 when, as I remember it, the sales tax was lower than today, he promised on election night that taxes of that kind, which rested upon the poof, would be removed. In 1920 he spoke on June 1, with his great knowledge of economics, of the unfairness of loading burdens on the backs of the poor. Now the Secretary of State for External Affairs comes along and ridicules the leader of the opposition when he suggests that if the government wants to attack this problem the first thing it should do is remove the sales tax from the things the people need in this country.
As the Prime Minister pointed out in that speech in 1920, the sales tax tends to pyramid over and over. The government stands to benefit by inflation, because the higher prices go
Prices Committee

the higher is the amount collected in sales tax. If prices before the war were 100 and now they are 200, on the original price the government is getting 20 per cent through this tax, due to the fact that the valuation has doubled during the period in question. Surely we in this parliament have a right to a declaration on this. If the government means what it says, that it wants to help the poor, that it wants to remove this load from the pensioner, the man of small income, why does the government not act when it pridefully speaks about its tremendous
While we talk about reducing taxes and reducing the cost of living, last November the government imposed another tax; and the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) quite frankly admitted that the 25 per cent excise tax which was imposed upon many necessities was designed to put the price so high the Canadian people could not buy them. What is the government policy? Where do they stand? What do they intend to do?
Speaking of imposing taxes by order in council, I go back to October 14, 1935, election night, when the Prime Minister made a speech in which he said one of the reasons Mr. Bennett was defeated was that he was raising the bogey of communism. He went on to say of the election:
It constitutes a demand for the abolition of the extravagant increases in the tariff . . .
And today the tariff is higher than ever before in the history of this country.
. . . together with the removal of arbitrary taxes and regulations, as imposed by the present administration . . .
A promise to remove the sales tax was made thirteen long years ago. Then what a ring this next quotation has:
It is a demand for an end to the making and altering of tariffs by executive action-
Then he went on:
-and for the substitution of stability for uncertainty in the administration of customs laws.
What would he have said, in the face of that Hampdenesque declaration in 1935 if we, in power, had imposed taxation without the authority of parliament, something that had never been done in the history of our country or, indeed, the history of the British empire? Then he also said the election-
*-is a demand for the restoration of responsible government in Canada . . . I
I am not going to deal with that question ;oday.
It is a verdict in favour of personal liberty, electoral reform . . .
Speaking about tariffs and orders in council -and they are mentioned here, too-what a

situation we have when a minister rises in his place and says in effect that the promise made in 1941, 1942 and 1943 that compulsory savings would be returned to the people now is to be denied, not by act of parliament but by order in council passed in January. And, Mr. Speaker, there are many other matters to which I am not going to make reference on this occasion; but it is a great speech.


Paul Joseph James Martin: Hear, hear.


John George Diefenbaker: There is one who applauds.


Paul Joseph James Martin: A great speech.


John George Diefenbaker: Yes, it is a great speech; but why have the promises made therein not been carried into effect? I say to the Prime Minister: to reduce the cost of living, first and foremost reduce the wasteful cost of government in this country. Deal with the question of the sales tax. Give to the Canadian people a lead, not the promise of a committee, rendered impotent, powerless, and emasculated in advance. Set up a committee representative of members of this house. Take parliament into your confidence; widen the scope of its powers; make it effective.
The hon. member for Peace River (Mr. Low) asked the removal of the word "recent" in the resolution. It was no accident that the word "recent" was in the resolution. The Secretary of State for External Affairs said it was put in for a reason. The reason it was put in was to take from the shoulders of the government the responsibility the people of Canada know rests upon it because of its failure to act. In the course of his speech the Prime Minister said that what parliament wants and what the Canadian people want at this time is action. I have not his exact words before me at the present time, but I recall that that was the sense of what he said. We on this side, all members of the opposition, are united in one thing:	We want action. All
we have received from the government is a commitee that can postpone and procrastinate, thereby placing the government in a position of being able to say that until the committee reports, it cannot act. Above all, it denies members of this parliament the right to discuss the cost of living, rising prices and the like, in this chamber while the committee is sitting.


An hon. MEMBER:: No.


John George Diefenbaker: Somebody says no. I ask the hon. member who interrupted to tell me who is Speaker of the house. Is it the Prime Minister? Your Honour is never subject to any direction. The Prime Minister

Prices Committee
read an opinion yesterday. My recollection is that on a number of occasions Your Honour denied us the right to information in the house regarding War Assets Corporation owing to the fact that a committee was sitting. You could not reverse yourself, sir, even with the opinion of the Prime Minister to the contrary. I say, sir, that we want to help, but we do not want to be fooled. We want action and are prepared to act. No one who has spoken for the government has shown in any way that they have tried to act. They have had the power; they have had the challenge; they have had the opportunity; but not one of them has been able to say that he, or the collective group sitting in the cabinet, has done anything to protect the Canadian people against what is generally admitted to be an unjustifiable increase in the cost of living.


James Horace King: I should like to give a ruling on the amendment presented by the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar (Mr. Cold-well). It was moved by the hon. member, and seconded by the hon. member for Vancouver East (Mr. Maclnnis):
That all the words after the word "that" be struck out and the following substituted therefor :
"this house is of the opinion that the present crisis demands and the people of Canada want not a parliamentary committee, but action by the government to restore price controls and subsidies."


Stanley Howard Knowles: Would your Honour permit me to speak to the matter before you give your ruling?


Some hon. MEMBERS:: No.


James Horace King: I wonder on what the hon. member could speak. I am giving my ruling.


Stanley Howard Knowles: But, Mr. Speaker, after you give your ruling you do not permit hon. members to speak. The only opportunity we have to speak on the point of order is before you actually give your ruling. I am prepared to do so now, or after Your Honour has quoted any citations you may read provided that Your Honour permits me to speak before you actually give your ruling.


James Horace King: The hon. member knows that a Speakers ruling is not debatable. If he wishes to speak on the motion, it would be his privilege to speak.
Mr. KNOWLES1: I do not wish to speak to the motion now. But it is clear that you are about to make a ruling on the point of order raised by the leader of the opposition (Mr. Bracken). You have quoted the rule correctly, that the Speaker's ruling is not debatable. So that if you give your ruling
we cannot say anything. Therefore I am asking permission now to speak to the point of order as to whether this motion is valid.


James Horace King: There is no point of order before the house. I do not believe any hon. member rose to a point of order on the amendment before the house.


Mr. NICHOLSON:: The leader of the
opposition earlier this afternoon rose on a point of order. I think the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Knowles) is quite in order when he asks permission to make comment upon it, before Your Honour rules.


James Horace King: I must call the attention of the hon. member to the fact that I was in the Chair when the leader of the opposition spoke about the amendment. He raised a point of order and called my attention to the fact that if it was my intention to decide that the amendment was out of order I should1 do so as soon as possible. That is what I understood. If the leader of the opposition rose to a point of order, stating that the amendment was out of order, I think it was at that time the hon. member should have spoken on the point of order.


Stanley Howard Knowles: He did not say it was out of order. He asked Your Honour to consider whether or not it was in order, and Your Honour gave no opportunity then for anyone else to speak. You said you would consider the matter and report later. If Your Honour is now going to rule it in order, that is fine; there is nothing else to say. But if you are going to give a citation indicating that, in your view, it is out of order, and then permit no one to answer, your ruling which follows will not be debatable.


James Horace King: The hon. member knows perfectly well the practice that when an amendment is put before the house it is the privilege of any hon. members to rise on a point of order and to discuss whether it is or is not. Then, when that has been done, it is the duty of the Speaker to decide if it is, or if it is not. I did not make the rules; the rules were made by the house and accepted by the house-just as they were accepted by the British House of Commons-that after a Speaker has given his ruling it is not debatable. I wonder how the hon. member can speak before I give my ruling.


Stanley Howard Knowles: It seems to me that the only way I can get at this is to rise to a point of order myself. I rise to a point of order.


Paul Joseph James Martin: You cannot.
Prices Committee


Stanley Howard Knowles: I question the propriety of the course followed by the leader of the opposition in merely asking a question, rather than raising a specific objection to the motion before the house.


James Horace King: Order. I believe the hon. member will agree that a member should not rise on a point of order to discuss the attitude of a member respecting an incident which happened a few hours ago. If the hon. member had any point of order respecting the intervention of the leader of the opposition, he should have made it after the leader of the opposition had spoken.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Would you permit one further question?


James Horace King: Order. The hon. member will admit that-


Stanley Howard Knowles: Mr. Speaker-


James Horace King: Order. The hon. member will admit that I have discussed the matter already too much with him, and that it is not the practice for a Speaker to debate with any member of the house.


Stanley Howard Knowles: But your refusal to permit us to discuss the citations which you are going to raise is most unfair.


James Horace King: It is a well known principle, as expressed in 335 of Beauchesne, third edition, that a motion may be amended: (a) by leaving out certain words; (b) by leaving out certain words in order to insert other words; (c) by inserting or adding other words. Please note that this well known rule does not authorize the striking out of all the words of a motion; it mentions only certain words.
The proposed amendment provides that the whole motion be struck out and that a new question be substituted for it. There is such i difference between the main motion and the aon. member's amendment that the latter cannot be considered as an amendment of the former. The formation of a select committee for a certain purpose is the subject matter of the main motion, and the hon. member, in moving to strike out that motion, destroys it altogether, which he can do by voting against the question. What he now proposes is an expanded negative, and moreover it further offends by the proposing of a declaration of opinion which should be moved as a separate motion after notice. For these reasons I have to rule the amendment out of order.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Mr. Speaker, with all deference, but because of convincing citations

in Beauchesne and May to which I could have referred in answer to the argument you have made, had you permitted me to do so, I can pursue no other course than to appeal from your ruling.
Mr. SPEAKER put the question as follows:
The motion before the house rvas moved bv Mr. King:
That a select committee of this house be appointed to examine and report from time to time as to:
(a)	the causes of the recent rise in the cost of living;
(b)	prices which have been raised above levels justified by increased costs;
(c)	rises in prices due to the acquiring, accumulating or withholding from sale by any persons, firms or corporations of any goods beyond amounts reasonably required for the ordinary purposes of their businesses.
Mr. Coldwell moved an amendment, seconded by Mr. Maclnnis:
That all the words after the word "that" be struck out and the following be substituted therefor:
"this house is of the opinion that the present crisis demands and the people of Canada want not a parliamentary committee, but action by the government to restore price controls and subsidies."
I declared that amendment out of order. It is a well known principle, as expressed in 335 of Beauchesne's, third edition, that a motion may be amended: (a) by leaving out certain words; (b) by leaving out certain words in order to insert other words; (c) by inserting or adding other words. Please note that this well known rule does not authorize the striking out of all the words of a motion, it mentions only certain words.
The proposed amendment provides that the whole motion be struck out and that a new question be substituted for it. There is such a difference between the main motion and the hon. member's amendment that the latter cannot be considered as an amendment of the former. I consider that what he now proposes is an expanded negative, and moreover it further offends by the proposing of a declaration of opinion which should be .moved as a separate motion after notice. For these reasons I declared the amendment out of order and Mr. Knowles appeals from my decision.
The house divided) on the question: Shall the Speaker's decision be sustained? And the decision of the chair was sustained on the following division:
++YEAS
Messrs:
Abbott	Blanchette
Arsenault	Boivin
Baker	Bonnier
Beaudoin	Bourget
Beaudry	Bradette
Benidiclcson	Breithaupt
Bertrand (Laurierl	Brown
Bertrand (Prescott)	Brunelle
Black (Chateauguay-	Chevrier
Huntingdon)	Claxton
Black (Yukon)	Cleaver

Prices Committee
Cloutier	Kirk
Cote (Matapedia-	Lafontaine
Matane)	Lalonde
Cote (St. Johns-Iber-	Lapointe
ville)	Laurendeau
Cote (Verdun)	Leger
Cournoyer	Lesage
Croll	Little
Cruickshank	McCann
Deehene	McCubbin
Denis	McCulloch (Pietou)
Dickey	Mcllraith
Dion ((Lake St. John-	Mclvor
Roberval)	Mac-Lean
Dionne (Beauce)	MacNaught
Dorion	Maloney
Douglas	Marquis
Dubois	Martin
Emmerson	Matthews (Brandon)
Eudes	Maybanlc
Parquhar	May hew
Fontaine	Michaud
Fournier (Hull)	Mitchell
Fournier (Maison-	Mullins
neuve-Rosemont)	Mutch
G agnon	Nixon
Gardiner	Parent
Gariepy	Pinard
Gauthier (Nipissing)	Raymond (Beauhar-
Gauthier (Portneuf)	nois-Laprairie)
Gibson (Comox-	Raymond (Wright)
Alberni)	Reid
Gibson (Hamilton	Richard (Gloucester)
West)	Richard (Ottawa
Gingues	East)
Gladstone	Robinson (Simcoe
Glen	East)
Golding	Ross (Hamilton
Gour ('Russell)	East)
Gourd (Chapleau)	St. Laurent
Grant	Sinclair
Gregg	Sinnott
Hamel .	Smith (York North)
Harris (Grey-tBruce)	Stuart (Charlotte)
Hartt	Tremblay
Healy	Tucker
Howe	Viau
Ilsley	W arren
Isnor	Weir
Jean	Whitman
Jutras	Winkler
King, Mackenzie	Winters-115.

Messrs:	
Adamson	Church
Archibald	Coldwell
Argue	Coyle
Aylesworth	Daniel
Barrett	Diefenbaker
Bentley	Drope
Black (Cumberland)	Fair
Blackmore	Ferguson
Blair	Fraser
Boucher	Fulton
Bracken	Gillis
Bradshaw	Graydon
Brooks	Green
Burton	Hackett
Campbell	Hansell
Cardiff	Harkness
Case	Harris (Danforth)
Casselman	Hazen
Castleden	Herridge
Charlton	Hlynka
Hodgson Homuth Irvine Jackman J aenicke J ohnston Knight Knowles Kuhl Leonard Lockhart Low
McCullough (Assiniboia)
Macdonnell (Muskoka-
Ontario)
McGregor Maclnnis McLure McM aster MacNicol Marshall
Matthews (Kootenay
East)
Menary Miller Moore


George Alexander Cruickshank: Mr. Speaker, if I
had been paired with the hon. member for Dufferin-Simcoe (Mr. Rowe) I would have voted both ways.


Mr. QUELCII:: Mr. Speaker, I was paired
with the hon. member for Edmonton West (Mr. MacKinnon). Had I voted, I would have voted against your decision.


Mr. MACDONALD (Brantford City):: I
was paired with the hon. member for London (Mr. Manross). Had I voted, I would have voted to sustain your decision, Mr. Speaker.


Mr. J. H. MATTHEWS (Kootenay East):: Mr. Speaker, I have not any intention of taking up very much of the time of the house this afternoon.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Hear, hear.


James Herbert Matthews: The big guns have had their turn; let the little ones have a bit of a shot. I feel that if I did not rise in this debate and say some of the things that my constituents would say if they had the opportunity of being here and saying what they think, then I should certainly be remiss in my parliamentary duties. It does not matter whether we come from the east or the west or from the central sections of this dominion; the all-absorbing concern of the people today is the rapid rise in the cost of living; and, as others have so well expressed it, it is the most important piece of business that is befoie the house this session.
Nicholson
Pearkes
Probe
Robinson (Bruce) Ross (St. Paul's) Ross (Souris)
Rowe Shaw Skey Stanfield Stephenson Stewart (Winnipeg North)
Stokes
Strum, Mrs.
Thatcher
Timmins
Townley-Smith
Tustin
Webb
White (Hastings-Peterborough) White (Middlesex East)
Wright Zaplitny-87.

Prices Committee
I know that ministers of the crown have their departmental duties to attend to. Many of them have been switched around to other portfolios and, no doubt, are busying themselves getting a grip on the problems they have to face, and we hardly expect them to pay very much attention to the trend of the debates from day to day.
Many private members, have, of course, constituency problems and grievances that they want to air, but I suppose many of them are waiting until we resume the debate on the address in reply to the speech from the throne. In the meantime many thousands of people are suffering beyond all bearing and are wondering when the government is going to get down to business and do something to check the rise in the cost of living, to reimpose controls and subsidies that are necessary, and to roll prices back to a reasonable level.
It is an amazing thing to me that the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) and the ministers who surround him are so indifferent and so uncertain in their attitudes and can think of nothing more efficient in this serious situation than to suggest the creation of a parliamentary committee. Surely the government does not seek to imply that there is anything of a mystery about the present situation, a mystery that would call for the setting up of a committee of investigation. '
We of the C.C.P. group in the House of Commons have warned the government consistently, both in our speeches and in our amendments, and we have sought to focus the attention of the government upon what was bound to happen and what, unfortunately for a great many people concerned, has happened but the government would not listen to us. Oh, no, they listened to our Conservative friends to the right who demanded the immediate abolition of controls. They not only listened; they even went farther; they acted upon that very [DOT] unwise advice and hastily decontrolled, with the inevitable result that we have today a cost of living which the people cannot possibly face.
Today the government is on the spot, and the responsibility for the present mess rests squarely upon the government. I am satisfied that the government is not feeling very happy about it, but is trying to move over that responsibility to the tender mercies of a committee. It was the government and the government alone that introduced the stabilization policy that worked so well during the war years, and I believe that no one should deny to the government the credit

that is due for that policy. Just so long as wartime controls were in effect, prices were satisfactory to the people at large, and as far as I know there has been no demand from the consuming public to have these controls abolished. On the contrary, now that they have been abolished with such disastrous effect, there is a widespread and insistent demand that they be reimposed; and I believe, sir, that this demand should cause the government to give serious consideration to a review of its past actions. '
It is clear to me that the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) and his corps of experts knew very well what the situation would be on the withdrawal of the subsidies and controls, and for the information of the house I should like to quote from a brief statement culled from the columns of the Canadian Forum of December, 1947, which reads as follows:
Those who are inclined to feel that perhaps the government should not be held entirely responsible for the rise in prices, and that economic forces were too much for them, should read a recent speech of Mr. Abbott's in Toronto. The Minister of Finance stated categorically that prices have moved upward almost exactly as his experts forecast them at each step of decontrol and withdrawal of subsidies. That is an admission worth remembering, for the electors will know now where to put the blame. And of course that is where it belongs, with Mr. Abbott and his colleagues. We always knew that these appeals to business to behave were not meant seriously.
If there is a lingering doubt in the mind of the government as to what the people of Canada really want, and what is the real effect of the decontrol program, what is now taking place in western Canada should remove that doubt completely. A serious coal strike is now and has been in progress for some weeks in Alberta and in the Crowsnest Pass, part of which I have the honour to represent, and in the coal mining areas of Vancouver island. This strike has come about solely by reason of the rapid and unjustifiable rise in the cost of living, and of the inadequacy of their wages to meet it. I want to remind the house that our coal miners, the men who go down into the bowels of the earth to produce the precious coal which warms our homes and keeps the wheels of industry turning, cannot produce coal on a diet of sandwiches. They require heavy meals-meat, bacon, eggs, butter, cheese and the like-and I say again that for the purchasing of these items their wages are entirely inadequate. Here, then, in the depth of winter, when the need for coal is at its greatest, and when we have a serious threat of a fuel oil shortage, we find the production of coal in these large coal producing areas entirely at a standstill, and all that the govern-

Prices Committee
ment does about the matter is to talk about setting up a committee to see whether there has been any profiteering.
History tells us that Nero fiddled while Rome burned. I should like to say that that gentleman had nothing on this government. They merely dally with a grievous situation from day to day and week to week while people are being fleeced.
You will notice, Mr. Speaker, that I am not quoting many figures to prove what I am saying. It is not necessary that I should do so. Enough figures have been quoted in this house to prove that food prices are away out of line with wages. Figures have been given to prove that to any reasonable mind. Rather, I want to voice the national resentment against the removal of those beneficial controls that served the people of Canada so well during the war years; and here I want to point out to the government that, great as-was their responsibility to protect the persons of the citizens of this dominion from the dangers and terrors of war, it is no less their duty to protect the living standards of the people in times of peace.
As a member of this house, I am asking the government to act immediately to reimpose price controls and to pay subsidies where necessary; and while I am doing this I am thinking more particularly of those persons in the low-income groups, our old age pensioners, the recipients of social services allowances, our disability pensioners, the widows and dependents of veterans, and. last but not least, our veteran students. How these classes manage to exist on thpir meagre incomes is entirely beyond me. Their welfare is, I am sure, on the heart and mind of most of the members of this house, and it should be on the heart and mind of those who comprise the government.
The leader of this group, the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar (Mr. Coldwell), has spoken over the radio and also in this house calling the attention of the Prime Minister to the fact that there are three federal constituencies now vacant, and he has asked the government to name the dates for the election of members to this house so that the people in these constituencies may be represented. So far, that advice has not been taken. It may be, of course, that the government is not so sure that it has the full and complete confidence of the people. Be that as it may, these people are without representation; I would
urge the government to give serious consideration to the calling of elections in these constituencies; and especially as a member from British Columbia, I appeal on behalf of the constituents in Yale constituency. They should be represented in this house, and I hope that the government will give serious consideration to the calling of these elections. By doing so, the government would not only find out very speedily what it is the people want, but would be giving the residents of these constituencies their constitutional rights.
The resolution calls for setting up a committee, and the Prime Minister has strongly emphasized that it is to be a fact-finding committee. Naturally some facts will be produced, because where there is smoke there is fire. As we get deeper and deeper into this debate, I for one become more and more convinced that the proposed committee will be permitted only to whitewash the situation. That will be about as far as it will get.
I wish I could be as satisfied in my mind, as the Prime Minister seems to be in his, that the turning of the searchlight of public opinion upon those who have been profiteering-and other members have said there has been-would deter those people. But the turning of the searchlight of public opinion on such persons would have no effect whatsoever on the immense fortunes that have been made. Figures have been quoted, taken from the columns of the Financial Post and other responsible publications, to show that tremendous and abnormal profits have been made, and there is no doubt in my mind that these profits could easily be used in a campaign of propaganda that would deceive almost the angels of heaven if they could read it. We know how these things have been done before.
I am going to take my seat, but, before doing so, I want to remind the Prime Minister once again that the people of the country are asking for the reimposition of price controls and the application of subsidies, and I hope that the government will give due heed to this request. May I, Mr. Speaker, have the privilege of moving the adjournment of the debate.
Motion agreed to and debate adjourned.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: We shall continue this debate tomorrow.


[Stage Direction]
At six o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.
[Stage Direction]
Thursday, February 5, 1948