1948-02-23

Mr. ELPHEGE MARIER (Jacques Cartier) :: I rise to a question of privilege, Mr. Speaker. The Montreal Gazette this morning published an article, under the heading "M.P. promises aid in housing issue," which is untrue and misrepresents the facts. The first two paragraphs of that article read as follows:
Reversing his previous attitude in the matter of homes for tenants of dwellings owned by the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation in Cartierville-St. Laurent, Elphege Marier, M.P. for Jacques Cartier, yesterday promised to help the people involved.
Alarmed at the prospect of having John G. Diefenbaker, Progressive Conservative member of parliament, carry his constituents' fight into the House of Commons, Mr. Marier, who prior to yesterday had supported the crown corporation, said that he would ask certain questions [DOT]which the committee members want answered, on the floor of the lower house at the earliest possible chance.
I must state first that before the question was raised in the house by the hon. member for Kamloops (Mr. Fulton) I had made representations to the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation on behalf of the tenants. Second, as to being alarmed by the possible intervention of the hon. member for Lake Centre, I must say that yesterday during the interview I had with the members of the committee representing the tenants, his name was not even mentioned.



MR. JAQUES    REFERENCE TO PRESS REPORT WITH REGARD TO HOUSE OF COMMONS DEBATES

Mr. NORMAN JAQUES (Wetaskiwin):: On a matter of privilege, Mr. Speaker, I wish to correct a statement in the press dated Ottawa, February 21, which reads as follows:
As forecast yesterday, the official record of parliament was cleansed of the ugly remarks made Thursday concerning .anti-semitism and other matters. It is understood that the members involved-Maurice Hartt (Liberal, Mont-real-Cartier) and sundry Social Crediters, including John Blackmore, 'Solon Low, and Norman Jaques-went to the editor of Hansard in some shame and asked to have their remarks eliminated.
I want to say that no remark of mine was eliminated. I did not go to Mr. Speaker, and I knew nothing about the matter until the following afternoon when the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Knowles) referred to the matter.



STANDING COMMITTEES


Hon. LIONEL CHEVRIER (Minister of Transport) moved:: That the name of Mr. Knowles be substituted for that of Mr. Cold well on the special committee appointed to consider the procedure of the House of Commons.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


[Stage Direction]
Bill No. 86, for the relief of Alfred Keeley. -Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 87, for the relief of Marie Albina Ethel Dubois Howick.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 88, for the relief of Ignaty (Ignas) Sokolovsky.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 89, for the relief of Laura Grace Hanley Huggenberger.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 90, for the relief of Eva Wolfovitch Zloty, otherwise known as Eva Wolfovitch Gold.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 91, for the relief of Sheila Light-stone Marcus.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 92, for the relief of Lea Alvina Mary Boulay Orr.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 93, for the relief of Armand Lapierre.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 94, for the relief of Georgette Ruth Cote Geller.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 95, for the relief of Mary Elizabeth Ellwood Blackburn.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 96, for the relief of Annie Elisabeth Horseman Charters.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 97, for the relief of Sarah Ann Older Verrier.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 98, for the relief of Anna Martha Kokojachuk Waugh.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 99, for the relief of Elsie Mark Farley.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 100, for the relief of Lela May Begley Hall.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 101, for the relief of Marguerite Isaacs Katz.-Mr. Maybank.
5849-95|
Privilege-Mr. McLure
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Bill No. 102, for the relief of Delilah May Jacobs Button.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 103, for the relief of Ruth Shkurnik Gilbert.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 104, for the relief of Goldie Tessler Wise.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 105, for the relief of Martha Norman McCairns.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 106, for the relief of Marion Rita Kendall O'Donahoe.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 107, for the relief of Gertrude Mae McLean Cole.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 108, for the relief of Freda Gertrude Parkes McMillan.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 109, for the relief of Alma Petrides Prysky.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 110, for the relief of Jean MacDonald Di Falco.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. Ill, for the relief of Betty Yossem Edelstein.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 112, for the relief of Leonard Carlton Matthews.-Mr. Maybank.
Bill No. 113, for the relief of St. Kilda McKay McLean Anderson.-Mr. Maybank.


[Stage Direction]
On the order:	Government notices of
motion.
Mr. W. CHESTER S. McLURE (Queens): Mr. Speaker, I deem it my duty as a member of parliament from the province of Prince Edward Island to rise on a question of privilege, and to do so before government notices of motion are called, particularly the motion dated February 20 and standing in the name of the Minister of Transport (Mr. Chevrier). It is not necessary for me to read the motion unless you, Mr. Speaker, wish me to do so. I call to your attention that a similar motion was introduced in this house on May 16, 1947, as will be found at page 3140 of Hansard for that date, by the then right hon. Minister of Feterans Affairs, who delivered a brilliant address; and I suppose this time we can anticipate another brilliant address. At page 3149 of Hansard of that date I brought to the attention of the house the fact that if human rights and freedoms are for all, there should be no discrimination against any province of Canada, that every province, regardless of its minority population, should and must have representation on the committee which is to study human rights and fundamental freedoms.
The present resolution, like the one of 1947, ignores the first principle of equal rights to all. Here is a committee to be set up consisting of twenty-nine members; two from British Columbia, three from Alberta, two from Sas-

katchewan, three from Manitoba, six from Ontario, nine from Quebeo, three from New Brunswick, one from Nova Scotia and not even one from Prince Edward Island, the birthplace of confederation. At this moment I do not know if this is a sin of commission or of omission, but I think it must foe admitted it is one or other, and is fundamentally discordant to the principle of human rights contained in the resolution.
Therefore I ask, before the motion is called, that it stand over or be withdrawn until my province has a representative on that committee; and if permitted I would recommend the senior member from the dual constituency of Queens.

[Stage Direction]
Right Hon. J. L. ILSLEY (Minister of Justice) moved that the house go into committee at the next sitting to consider the following resolution:
That it is expedient to introduce a measure to provide for the continuation of certain orders and regulations of the governor in council for a limited period during the national emergency arising out of the 'war.
He said: His Excellency the Governor General, having been made acquainted with the subject matter of this resolution, recommends it to the consideration of the house.
Mr. BRACKEN:: Can the minister say now when he expects to deal with this matter?


Mr. ILSEEY:: No, I cannot say.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


[Stage Direction]
Right Hon. C. D. HOWE (Minister of Trade and Commerce) moved that the house go into committee at the next sitting to consider the following resolution:
That it is expedient to present a bill to amend the Export Credits Insurance Act, to empower the corporation, with the approval of the governor in council, to enter into insurance contracts for a term or in an amount in excess of that which the corporation would normally undertake; moneys required to discharge liabilities of such contracts to be paid out of the consolidated revenue fund.
He said:	His Excellency the Governor
General, having been advised of the subject matter of the resolution, recommends it to the consideration of the house.
Motion agreed to.

Inquiries of the Ministry


[Stage Direction]
Hon. MILTON F. GREGG (Minister of Veterans Affairs) moved that the house go into committee at the next sitting to consider the following resolution:
That it is expedient to bring in a measure to amend the Pension Act to provide for increases in the rates of pension for disability and for death under the act, and to provide an increase in salary for the members of the Canadian Pension Commission.
He said:	His Excellency the Governor
General, having been made acquainted with the terms of this resolution, recommends it to the consideration of the house.
Motion agreed to.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. M. J. COLDWELL (Rosetown-Biggar):: In view of the statement of
the Minister of Finance at page 1430 of Hansard I should like to inquire as to the authority under which residential rates are being raised by wartime housing in the cities of S't. Catharines and North Vancouver, and by the Department of Transport at the airport near Kenora.


Hon. DOUGLAS ABBOTT (Minister of Finance):: I received notice of the question just before coming into the house, and I do not know whether in fact rents are being raised. I point out to my hon. friend, however, that dominion housing projects such as those of Wartime Housing Limited and so on are not and never have been subject to rent control.



VETERANS AFFAIRS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. T. A. KIDD (Kingston City):: I should like to ask the Minister of Veterans Affairs when single veterans, who are at present attending university and who have dependent widowed mothers, may expect an announcement regarding their application for extra assistance or cost of living bonus.
Hon. MILTON F. GREGG (Minister of Veterans Affairs): I received notice of this question just as I was entering the chamber. I will take note of it and answer as soon as possible.


Thomas Ashmore Kidd: Then I have a supplementary question. When will the minister make an announcement in reference to extra assistance or a cost of living bonus to the service pensioners as well? I will send him notice.



SUGGESTED PENSION PLAN FOR STENOGRAPHERS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. STANLEY KNOWLES (Winnipeg North Centre):: I should like to ask either the Prime Minister or the Minister of Finance whether it is possible to indicate how soon we may expect an announcement about a pension plan for House of Commons stenographers.


Douglas Charles Abbott: The officials of my department have been looking into the matter and have prepared certain recommendations which will be considered at an early day by the internal economy commission of the house, which has jurisdiction in these matters; and I should hope it would be possible to make an announcement very soon.



THE SENATE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. C. W. HODGSON (Victoria, Ont.):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask a question of the Prime Minister. Did Senator Ian Mackenzie use a government private car for a trip to Vancouver and return recently, and since his appointment to the senate? Who gave authority for the use of this car? Have all senators such a privilege? How much did it cost?


Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):: I could not hear what my hon. friend was saying, but I shall take note of what he said and give an answer another time.



INITIAL PAYMENT FOR CROP YEARS 1945, 1946 AND 1947

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. D. J. McCUAIG (Maple Creek):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask a question of the Minister of Trade and Commerce. Would the minister inform the house how soon he proposes to bring in the bill to increase the initial payment on wheat for the crop years 1945, 1946 and 1947?
Farm Improvement Loans


Right Hon. C. D. HOWE (Minister of Trade and Commerce):: If my hon. friend will take note of item 15 on the order paper he will find there a resolution preceding a bill which will have the effect to which he refers. How soon we will be able to consider it will depend upon how long members of the opposition delay approval of the emergency measures.


Mr. DIEFENBAKER:: How long the minister refuses to answer.


Mr. FLEMING:: How long it takes the minister to give essential information to the house.



MIDDLESEX EAST

[Stage Direction]
world's CHAMPION HOLSTEIN COW-OAT KING OF NORTH AMERICA
On the orders of the day:
Mr. H. 0. WHITE (Middlesex East): Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask a question of the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Agriculture, who is also the hon. member for Middlesex West (Mr. McCubbin). Is he aware of the fact that last week Mr. R. M. Berry of Wilton Grove, Middlesex East, completed the three year test and development of the world's champion Holstein cow Lonelm Texal Happy producing 91,641 pounds of milk and 3,357 pounds of butter? Is the parliamentary assistant aware of the fact that last week Mr. Alex M. Stewart of Middlesex West was crowned oat king of North America for the second time?
Mr. ROBERT McCUBBIN (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Agriculture):: I note what the hon. member for Middlesex East has said, and I wish to offer my congratulations to those two gentlemen.



LABOUR CONDITIONS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Stanley Howard Knowles: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask a question of the Minister of Labour. Has his attention been called to a speech made in Hull a few days ago by a senior official of his department in which that official is reported to have said that strikes such as the one called by the employees of the Ottawa Citizen should be declared illegal, and that ways and means . should be found to reduce the powers of certain union leaders? Is this government policy?


Hon. HUMPHREY MITCHELL (Minister of Labour):: No one knows better than my

hon. friend that it is not government policy. It has been called to my attention. I saw the news item-not quite so widespread as my hon. friend makes it, I would say


Stanley Howard Knowles: I quoted directly from the report.


Humphrey Mitchell: I understand that. But I would rather check before I convict, you understand.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Your conviction is coming. FARM 1MPR0YEMENT LOANS



AMENDMENT OF ACT OF 1944 EXTENDING ITS OPERATION FOR THREE Y EARS

[Stage Direction]
Hon. DOUGLAS ABBOTT (Minister of Finance) moved that the house go into committee to consider the following resolution:
That it is expedient to bring in a measure to amend The Farm Improvement Loans Act, 1944, to extend its operation for a further period of three years and the guarantee for the said period on the same terms as for the original three-year period.
Motion agreed to and the house went into committee, Mr. Macdonald (Brantford City) in the chair.
Douglas Charles Abbott: Perhaps I might say a word at this point. The main purpose of the bill which will be founded on this resolution is to extend the present Farm Improvement Loans Act for a further period of three years, on the same basis as the present act. It expires on the last day of this month, and unless extended it would not be possible to extend further credits under it,
I am informed the act has worked out pretty well, and it is proposed to extend it for a further period of three years, with guarantees to the banks who make these loans on the same basis as they are now.
There will be an additional provision extending the type of security which may be taken, by enabling banks to take a mortgage or hypothec on the construction, repair, alteration or making of additions to any building or structure on a farm. Heretofore a bank could take this type of security only where the principal amount of a loan exceeded $2,000 and w'as for a period extending beyond five years. The security provided for loans under $2,000 for a period of less than five years is farm implement security. The proposed amendment is to make these loans available to farmers who are not in a position to give farm implement security. For example, there are certain types of farming where the farmer actually has no implements of any value upon w'hich to give security. In these cases he has not been able to get a farm improve-

Foreign Exchange Conservation
ment loan. There are other eases in which the only implements a farmer has to give security on are exempt, and this type of farmer finds himself unable to obtain a farm improvement loan. The proposed amendment is to take care of cases of that type.


John Bracken: Two or three days ago the Minister of Finance advised the house that he would proceed with this measure provided that there was no disposition to discuss it at length at this time. I think he received the assurance that there was no desire to do that. I do not rise at this time to speak at any length. I wish only to request that when the minister move second reading he give the house a fuller statement respecting the administration of the measure than he has just given. For instance, how much money has been lent under this act; how many loans are there, and in what sections of the country? It is being used to the extent expected and what losses have there been, if any? I would prefer that the minister should not proceed with second reading today, but that when second reading is moved he give the house a full statement respecting the measure and its administration during the past three years.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I have the data, and I shall be glad to give it at any time.
Resolution reported, read the second time and! concurred in. Mr. Abbott thereupon moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 114, to amend the Farm Improvement Loans Act 1944.
Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.


Mr. SPEAKER:: When shall the bill be read a second time?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I presume the house might be disposed to agree to give second reading tomorrow. It is important that the bill be passed this week, before the end of the month, in view of the fact that this provision will expire at the end of February.


John Bracken: The Minister has suggested that we proceed with second reading tomorrow, and I understand the desire of the government to get it through expeditiously. If I am correct, I believe the present act expires at the end of this month, and the minister desires the amendment to take effect and become law immediately when the present act terminates. I understand that members of the other chamber are away, and I am wondering how we can pass a law here and have it become effective with having it passed by that chamber.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am fully conscious that it will not be possible to have Lt adopted by the senate until next week, but the provisions of the act are such that if adopted next week loans which may be made between March 1 and say March 3 or 4 when it receives the approval of the other chamber and royal assent will be covered. That feature has been discussed with the general managers of the banks making these loans, and I am told that they will not withhold proceeding with loans in the usual way once they have had the assurance, which I felt I could give them, that the house would extend the provisions of the act.


John Bracken: There will be no Serious administrative difficulties?


Douglas Charles Abbott: No. I did feel it was desirable that it should be ready for the other chamber as soon as they reconvene on Wednesday or Thursday of next week.



FOREIGN EXCHANGE CONSERVATION


[Stage Direction]
The house resumed from Friday. February 20, consideration in committee of Bill No. 3, respecting emergency measures for the conservation of Canadian foreign exchange resources - Mr. Abbott *- Mr. Macdonald (Brantford City) in the chair.
On schedule III.
Customs tariff-306. Marble, sawn or sand-rubbed, not polished; granite, sawn; paving blocks of stone; flagstone and building stone, other than marble or granite, sawn on not more than two sides.
Mr. CHURCH:: The board of education of Toronto made an application to the minister in connection with proposed additions to the Riverdale collegiate, Bloor collegiate, and other schools in the city. Ontario did not come under the legislation passed between the two wars to provide grants for schools and other municipal institutions in connection with unemployment. During the last war a heavy school population, both secondary and otherwise, grew up in our city. The lower forms of the secondaiy schools are doing a great deal of work which was formerly done in the public school. Mr. C. H. R. Fuller, the business administrator of our school system, saw the minister in connection with this matter, and was pleased with his visit with him. Jarvi3 Street collegiate cost the city $60,000 a room because fabricated steel and expensive cut Indiana stone and other stone materials were used. The minister told this delegation that he did not want them to use much United States steel. He said that if the building was only three stories brick could be used. I think
Foreign Exchange Conservation

he is quite right because I believe some of the schools are costing too much. The minister promised Mr. Fuller and the delegation some aid, and I should like to know if he wili agree to an application for a reasonable amount of steel. They would not require very much because they could use heavy lumber from Canada, brick and cement and stone. I do not think these schools should be built as they used to be, with dressed stone and materials of that kind, economies are being made now.


Clarence Decatur Howe: As the hon. member has said, I met a delegation from the school board of the city of Toronto. We discussed the general priciples that would cover their construction for this year and it was agreed that they would submit each separate project to the department and that sympathetic consideration would be given to the issue of project approvals. I believe that that process is being followed. I have heard of no further complaint from the school board. I think I can assure my hon. friend that the situation can be worked out in a reasonable way to the satisfaction of the school board.


Douglas Charles Abbott: On Friday evening the hon. member for Eglinton asked if I would place on Hansard as an appendix a table showing the average imports of goods covered by schedule II in the same way as had been done with respect to schedule I. I told him that I would see that such a table was placed on Hansard and I now propose to do so with the permission of the committee.
(For the table referred to, see Appendix.)


Donald Methuen Fleming: I should like to thank the minister for making that information available. There was one other thing the minister said he would look into and make an announcement about at a later stage in the committee.
I refer to publicizing the awards of permits under the bill.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I have not yet had time to give that as careful consideration as I should like to give it and to discuss it with my officials to see whether it might be practicable.


Mr. MACDONNELL (Muskoka-Ontario):: The minister was going to look into the question of cotton purchases. He said he would get further figures and give them to us during this debate.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I will try to get them if they can be broken down.


Clarence Decatur Howe: In the light of the discussion of schedule III on Friday evening it looks to me as though time could be saved if I made a statement covering the general principles of schedule III, giving the back-

ground of the administration of this schedule and discussing the moving picture and automobile items which seem to give so much distress to hon. members opposite.
The discussion which started on Friday on schedule III, dealing with the import restrictions to be applied to capital goods, revealed some basic misconceptions as to the purposes and form of the control. Before proceeding in detail I would like to make a short general introductory statement.
First, a word on the principles and policy underlying the administration of schedule III. It can be put very simply. The objective guiding our administration is to encourage industries, activities and practices -which will earn or save United States dollars. A necessary test is that these industries will use Canadian resources in so far as possible. New industries must be economically sound; capable of standing on their own feet and competing successfully once the temporary protection of import restrictions is withdrawn. That is the positive side.
To make our positive measures effective we must also apply some negative and restrictive measures. We must discourage further investment in a broad range of industries which are less essential. I do not like the word "nonessential." The new amusement, service, commercial and industrial enterprises in which new investment and construction must be curtailed would provide many pleasant amenities and improvements in the Canadian standard of living. But they all involve expenditures of United States dollars. I have mentioned before that approximately 30 cents out of every dollar spent on new construction, machinery and equipment finds its way to the United States. Since our supply of United States dollars is limited it must, in effect, be rationed.
The need for this is underlined by the magnitude of new capital investment intentions in 1948. On top of an investment boom in 1947 in which the all-time record, in peace or war, of $2-4 billion was spent on new construction, machinery and equipment in Canada, an increase of 17 per cent, or $400 million, is planned for 1948. For the purposes of this discussion it is the United States dollar aspect of this really staggering amount-$2-8 billiom-which concerns us. But I would like in passing also to draw attention to the disturbing inflationary possibilities inherent in such a program. Some postponement of the less essential expenditures in this program will be far from harmful. It will not cause any unemployment in the construction or capital goods industries. In fact our capacity in a

Foreign Exchange Conservation
number of key instances, such as steel supply, will be strained to the limit to provide for essential construction. Additional demand in the market will simply bid up prices, intensify shortages, interrupt necessary work and generally add to costs. On the other hand, projects postponed now will prove useful in maintaining employment and income in the future.
This may appear a digression, but I wish to make the point that while our exchange position forces us to limit our purchases of capital goods in the United States, our over-all investment picture is such that some deferment of expenditures would in any case be economically desirable and sound.
There are two possible methods of limiting the imports of capital goods, or to put it another way, of rationing our limited supply of United States dollars to be spent on such goods. One method is an over-all blanket reduction; the other is by a selective approach, distinguishing between those projects which are most necessary and helpful to Canada, and those which can be postponed with a minimum of loss and inconvenience.
There can be little question as to the superior merit of the second method-the selective approach. But it has some important implications, from its very nature, that must be clearly understood. It is obvious that no hard and fast formula can be laid down to govern administrative procedure. Almost every project has distinctive features which require special consideration. There must obviously be a measure of administrative discretion. Each application for an import is screened in the light of the use for which it is required. Wherever possible the importer is required to submit complete details of his project. Various factors must be taken into account in the final appraisal of the essentiality of the project such as, for example, the need for maintaining basic public services; the possibilities of expanding export trade, the desirability of further developing our primary industries and in general of strengthening the Canadian economy with an eye to maintaining employment and income in the future.
What I have been saying applies to the general range of capital goods covered by schedule III. The schedule also provides for control of the imports of the important automobile and motion picture industries. Since there has already been some desultory discussion of this I would like to make some general remarks concerning these two industries and their place in our over-all exchange and industrial program.
The automobile industry has become one of the largest Canadian manufacturing industries. It has developed to the point where cities such as Oshawa and Windsor are largely dependent upon it as a source of income and employment, and its ramifications are very great. Tire total scope of the industry cannot indeed be estimated with any accuracy because it extends into so many aspects of our national life. It reaches out from the automobile production line to distributors, repair and dealer services which extend across the country. The needs of automobile drivers and of commercial transport are reflected in the highway systems and the construction programs of the provinces. The tourist industry is important to the country because of the automobile and the service facilities available to travellers. The automobile manufacturers depend in their turn upon other industries which supply them with their raw materials, such as primary iron and steel, textile fabrics, plate glass, paints and varnishes, and so forth.
I have been asked to provide some statement as to what was our preliminary objective with regard to the saving of United States dollars which might be effected by restricting the imports of the automobile industry. I must say again that there was no such objective at the beginning except the general belief, founded on a careful examination of the facts, that some substantial saving could be made without at the same time inflicting damage on the industry itself. I have given the house a figure of $35,000,000 which was mentioned at an earlier stage by some of those involved but this was never a goal or an objective.
It has been necessary to proceed step by step in consultation with the industry itself. They have been approached to give their advice as responsible citizens in the formulation of a policy for their industry which would be in the national interest. A formula has been developed which will enable automobile manufacturing to continue at substantial levels and still provide some relief by way of minimizing the net drain of United States dollars.
The formula has been published and made available to the house and it will not require any marked diminution of automobile production in Canada this year. In the categories affected, namely automobiles and light trucks, it might indeed be increased from the high level of last year when the total production of such vehicles was in excess of 250,000. Imports of parts under tariff items enumerated in schedule III, namely 438b, 438c, 438d and 438e, amounted to $108 millions in 1947. Imports of complete vehicles, such as automobiles and trucks of three tons or less, were
Foreign Exchange Conservation

running at the annual rate of about $65 million! in 1947 unfil they were banned on November 17. Out of this total it is estimated that the formula will save about $70 to $75 millions of imports from the United States. By far the larger part of this, about $55 millions, will be saved1 on the import of complete vehicles and the balance on non-essential accessories and gadgets. Many parts which were previously imported will be found obtainable in Canada of good quality and at favourable price.
In effect the formula adopted reduces the imports of finished cars to token amounts in 1948, but will permit the continued operation of the automobile production and service industries at substantially 1947 levels. There is, in addition, an exchange incentive to increase production and exports above 99 per cent of the 1947 level, and1 the effect of this is that, roughly speaking, for every additional car sold for export two additional cars can be made.
Let me repeat that the formula and these estimates have been arrived at after consultation with the industry itself. I have 'been impressed by the way in which the industry has taken a responsible attitude towards this urgent national problem and has co-operated fully.
I should like to turn now to the motion picture industry. It illustrates that every industry has some special characteristics requiring special consideration. One approach to saving United States dollars in the motion picture business would have been to apply quotas to imports of United States films. This method has been applied in a number of other countries, but with results far from generally satisfactory. In addition, there are some special features in the case of Canada which make a simple quota basis of restriction inappropriate. A substantial amount of the United States dollar cost of the industry to us is in the earnings of United States motion picture properties in Canada. This is over and above the approximate $12,000,000 a year paid in rentals on imported films. The total annual exchange cost of the industry is estimated at $20,000,000, of which $17,000,000 is in United States dollars, the balance going to the United Kingdom and, to a smaller degree, to France. The financial facts of the movie industry in Canada, the tastes and habits of the Canadian movie-going public, and the harmonious relations we have enjoyed with the United States producers-in short, the special situation of the industry in Canada- called for a more imaginative and constructive approach than quota restrictions.
rvfr. Howe.]
As I mentioned' on Friday, discussions with the industry are proceeding. I do not think it would be desirable to go into detail on these while they are still under way. But I would like to say that we have been very much pleased with the co-operative spirit in which the industry has joined with us to explore the problem.
That Canada has some interesting possibilities in the movie world is obvious. Climatic factors, local colour and cultures, magnificent natural scenery, availability of technical personnel and facilities, and proximity to the California and New York centres of the United States industry are all of significance. The west coast and Quebec, to mention only two areas, have important location and production advantages. It is our hope that the movie industry will contribute to the solution of the Canadian exchange problem, not by contraction of business in Canada, but by the development of production in Canada and the use of the United States and international network of distribution outlets of the chief United States companies. An important by-product, of course, would be the publicity and resulting tourist business stimulated by a development of this nature.


Mr. LENNARD:: Late on Friday evening the minister gave a figure on the amount of granite which has been imported from the different countries. Has he similar figures on the limestone imported in 1947?
Mr. H'OWE: Yes. I gave the figures on granite and -marble, rough. Then there is building stone not otherwise provided, which is largely limestone. That amounted to $190,000. I might say that the saving in stone itself is not of significance in this item. It is a key item in luxury building, and it is put in so that by denying the imported stone, luxury building can be discouraged. It is one of several items which are not of value in themselves but of value in controlling the expenditures which would otherwise be uncontrollable.


Mr. FULTON:: May I ask the minister whether any over-all figure was arrived for the whole of schedule III?


Clarence Decatur Howe: An over-all figure was discussed. I do not know why we should present our working papers. The final figure will be arrived at for each item just as it was in the automobile industry, after discussion with the industry and an intensive statistical study of the industry. In the preliminary figures $100 million was used as a saving for the capital

Foreign Exchange Conservation
goods figure, but we know now that that figure was much too low. We expect to do much better than that.


Mr. LOCKHART:: Has the minister given any assurance to industry that there will be a little security if they expand? To lay out the extension of industry that I have in mind will take considerable time. The minister of course has adopted the idea that this austerity program will be of very short duration. Has there been any recent change in that idea, so that industry which is contemplating extension in this country may feel a bit secure rather than have to face the few months the minister referred to? The other night he said this matter was going to be of short duration, and I would not recommend anybody going into very much capital expenditure on remarks of that kind. It sometimes takes two years to expand a building. Has that been discussed with industry? Can the minister assure industry that if they get started on these things, even if it takes a year or two, it will be perfectly safe to enter into this type of work!


Clarence Decatur Howe: I have said repeatedly that it was not the purpose of government to use schedule III as a protective tariff. If any industry that the hon. member knows of is undertaking expansion, or new production, based on the protection that it will get from schedule III, I certainly hope that he will advise them not to proceed. I might go further than that and say that if it is found that any existing industry is using schedule III, or this emergency legislation, as a protective tariff, it is not unlikely that some import permits will be granted just to discourage that idea.


Mr. GILLIS:: May I ask the minister a question arising out of the statement he has just made? He said the potential investment in Canada for the year 1948 was approximately 17 per cent higher than it was last year. Can the minister tell us how that investment is to be made, province by province; the percentage allocated to each province; second, whether the potential investment is all Canadian capital, and if not what percentage of it is United States capital?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Obviously I have not that information. Last year we published an analysis of investment intentions based on replies to some 18.000 questionnaires that were sent out. It is the intention to do the same this year. I expect within a few days that a publication of that kind will be tabled. My hon. friend may make his own analysis; I have not the breakdown at the moment.


Mr. BLACK (Cumberland):: My criticism of the minister's statement is that there is no permanency in his policy. In. the maritime 5849-96i
provinces we have a great natural building stone industry. It developed to a large extent years and years ago. Stone was produced in many parts of the maritime provinces and shipped not only to Ottawa and central Canada but also by vessel to a much larger extent to the United States. Many of the large buildings in New York, Boston and Providence were built out of stone produced in my constituency. It was produced not only in Cumberland county but also in the neighbouring counties of Westmorland and Pictou. The Langevin building in this city is built of stone produced in Northumberland county. Gloucester, Saint John, and Queens counties in New Brunswick also have stone quarries. In fact the geological formation of the maritime provinces is largely sandstone, and it is of a quality that cannot be surpassed anywhere. No better quality stone is produced anywhere than is produced in the quarries to which I refer. This parliament building is largely built of stone from Cumberland county. The old parliament building was built of Ohio sandstone. When it was destroyed by fire the architects unwisely used some of the old United States stone; they used it in the rear of this building, and it has disintegrated so that it is a blemish on this fine structure. If this building had been built entirely of stone from the maritime provinces there would not be the disfigured stones than can be seen in the rear of the building. The tower at the entrance is built of Cumberland county sandstone, and that is as fine an example of building material that can be found anywhere in the world.
This industry, like many others in the maritime provinces, has been retrogressing in recent years. A change has taken place in building methods. In the old days when our stone was shipped to the big centres, large strong blocks were used to support buildings of three, four, five and six stories. In recent years steel structures have been built with thin slabs of stone. Stone laying would perhaps be started on the second or third floor rather than at the bottom, the steel supporting the building rather than the stone as in the older days. The cement industry has advanced and artificial stone is produced which displaces part of the markets for stone, but there is no comparison in appearance or quality. The stone industry can be built up, and it would give a good deal of employment to the people in the maritime provinces. It would save Canadian dollars, which it has been necessary to save ever since I can remember-ever since the national policy was put into effect and before.

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Therefore my complaint is that there is no permanency to this policy of encouraging the use of Canadian products. W hen the Minister of Finance made his statement he said this policy was only temporary, and made an excuse for it because of that fact. If there were a permanent policy which gave some assurance and encouragement to the stone and building industry, scores of stone quarries would start up in the maritime provinces and would supply the stone requirements of all central and eastern Canada. But in the statement made to the house today by the minister there is no encouragement for these owners of stone properties to start operations. In the policy that has been in effect or is now before the committee there is no encouragement for the re-establishment of that industry; yet it was one of the most important industries in eastern Canada. The maritimes have not just one grade of stone; they have many grades, of different colours and textures. There is grey stone, blue stone, red stone-all the different shades.
My criticism of this legislation and of the statement made by the minister is that there is no permanency to the policy. The dominion government should adopt a policy-and I am glad that the Minister of Public Works is in his seat-of using in the construction of public buildings only such building materials as are produced in Canada. In Manitoba there are deposits of the stone which was used in the interior of this parliament building; it is a credit to Canada and a credit to Manitoba and should be used much more widely than it is. But architects and the government seem to give preference to the importation of United States stone. They can order any specifications and the big quarries in the United States are able to fill them more quickly than quarries in Canada can. because they have large plants whereas the industry in Canada has been allowed to lag for many years and now has only a fraction of the importance it held fifty or one hundred years ago.
In my province there was an old saying that if you put a grindstone or building stone in the waters of the bay of Fund}' or Northumberland strait it would float naturally to Boston or New York. That trade is a thing of the past, but we still have the deposits of stone. When the budget is brought down this policy should be put on a solid basis so that builders and quarrymen may be encouraged and the industry built up to the benefit of our economy. That is what this country wants and what the maritime provinces deserve.


Mr. FOURNIER (Hull):: The hon. member does not mean to say that since 1939 we have imported stone for public buildings?


Mr. JACKMAN:: That is during the war period?


Percy Chapman Black: I cannot say. I know that the Department of Public Works has imported from the United States stone which should have been produced in this country. There are big buildings in Montreal built of imported stone. This building itself was originally built of Ohio sandstone; that stone was used at the rear of the building, and you can see it disintegrating, whereas in the tower and in the front there is no disintegration; the stone is a credit to this country. This magnificent building is a credit to all of Canada. I ask that that policy be carried out. The minister intimates that since 1939 no imported stone has been used by the Department of Public Works. I am glad if that is so. What I ask is for him to adhere to that policy so that there will be no public buildings built in Canada which do not- have our own Canadian stone specified.


Alphonse Fournier: I put that question to the hon. member for this reason: As he knows, we have not been putting up public buildings during the last ten years, so I am trying to find out if we have imported stone.


Percy Chapman Black: The minister is quibbling now.


Alphonse Fournier: Oh, no.


Norman James Macdonald Lockhart: While the minister
rather glibly puts off what I said, may I just associate myself with the hon. member for Cumberland, because after all we have the same problem not far from my own back door, in connection with the well-known Queenston quarries, which are in a position to take care of all types of Canadian work. I want to remind the minister of one thing. He says he is even going to discipline people who he thinks are starting up industry under tariff protection. But that does not seem to be the attitude of the Minister of Finance or of somebody else who met the fruit and vegetable growers recently. According to press reports today I notice that the fruit and. vegetable men were down here and had a discussion with certain government officials. These press reports say they have gone back and have started an extensive program for this year. Somebody must have given them a different story from that which the minister has just told us. That is why I am still asking the minister for reasonable protection.

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Apparently the fruit and vegetable men have had a little better success with regard to the expansion of industry than other people interested in that type of work.


Thomas Langton Church: I wish to support the stand taken by the hon. member for Cumberland. The complaint I have is this. There are three agencies using United States dollars to bring in stone, steel, and other expensive materials. First there is the agency which has to do with dominion buildings-customs houses, post offices and many other public buildings. The second group are the banks, many of whom are building skyscrapers with the housing situation as it is. When the Bank Act was up for revision three years ago I claimed that under the then section 92 they had no right to build these skyscrapers with practically all the stone imported from the United States. We should develop our own quarries throughout this country, as a national policy. They are in an experimental stage at the present time and have not been developed as they should be. The third group are the theatres, which are being built when we cannot get housing. Look at the housing situation in this city, where people are living in shacks and trailers in creeks and all that kind of thing.
These are the three groups who are carrying the large construction. The banks are the worst offenders. Under the Bank Act they have no right to go into real estate; their buildings must be commensurate with the size of their business. They cannot go into real estate except for collateral, and any shareholder has the right to bring an action against a bank under the act, or to go to treasury board and complain that the provisions of the act are not being lived up to. What is the position? The treasury board limits the banks to a period of seven years in which to get rid of these illegal properties, which require large quantities of expensive granite and other kinds of stone. That should be stopped. During the discussion of the Bank Act I asked the then Minister of Finance what he proposed to do in regard to the banks which were carrying on in this way, building thirty and thirty-five story skyscrapers as real estate investments, and he said an inquiry would be made into it. Under the act the treasury board can give a bank an extension of another seven years, making a total of fourteen years in which the bank must get rid of its real estate if the section is abused. If it does not do so the property reverts to the crown. But the Bank Act has not been carried out. Why should they go to work and use all this material, with
the housing situation as it is? Why should people be allowed to build expensive theatres? There is one west of the Maple Leaf Gardens. Another is being built on Bloor Street east of Avenue road, on the north side. It is a large building, using many materials which must be imported from the United States.
I support a policy of Canada for Canadians in connection with these three items. I believe we should utilize our own quarries and develop them further, using all the scientific discoveries that have been made in recent years. So I hope the minister will take these points into consideration, because this class of construction represents a large expenditure of United States dollars.


Mr. BRYCE:: I want to refer to the discussion on stone for just a moment. I do not want any protection to help the sale of Tyndall stone. I do not live in that constituency, but I know if some of that stone could be used in these buildings it would create a great deal of work for the men I represent in the constituency of Selkirk, so I hope that will be done.


John George Diefenbaker: I should like to ask the minister a couple of questions arising out of the statement he made a short time ago. One thing he said, as I understood it, was that even aside from the necessity of saving dollars the investment situation would have justified measures to keep out capital goods at this time. I wish he would explain just what he meant in that connection. Before he answers that question I should like to bring to his attention the speech he made recently in Toronto before the Canadian Manufacturers Association, as reported in the Financial Post of January 31, in which he set out a series of rules that would govern him in determining what imports should be permitted.
The first was that it should provide for the production in Canada of a manufactured article suitable for export. In connection with that consideration I would ask whether a new industry desiring to set up in Canada, having the necessary financial background and in a position to be in production shortly, would be granted a permit for capital goods. The second consideration, according to the report I have before me, was that it should be essential to the maintenance or expansion of industry. The minister dealt with that point today. The third consideration was that it should be essential to the maintenance or expansion of a productive public service. That is another of the matters to be dealt with today. The fourth was that it is required for

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the production of a basic product such as in farming, mining, logging, fishing or in the production of petroleum.
In connection with these particular industries I would like to ask the minister this question. Regardless of what is to be manufactured or what basic product is to be produced in these industries, will permission to import be granted to everyone who qualifies under this section? In other words I come back to the point I raised the other evening, and as I approach this question I hope on this occasion we may remain in the temperate zone. I ask the minister whether there will be universal consistency in the application of the rules; in other words no matter what the industry may be, when what is required is needed for the production of a basic product such as in farming, mining, logging, fishing or in the production of petroleum, will the application be granted? Again I bring to his attention the fact that if this be not so, then what has been so often suggested, namely that he himself or those associated with him will have the power of life or death over the industries denied equality of treatment with other industries, becomes all the more apparent.
I noticed that when he made his statement he said he was being held up by the questions which were asked. Well, Mr. Chairman, if he had answered even half as completely or one-quarter as frankly as he did in his speech today, many of the questions that have been asked would have been answered long ago and it would not have been necessary to keep on asking them. The next ground is-


Clarence Decatur Howe: My memory will hold only so many questions.


John George Diefenbaker: I beg pardon; the minister is right. I will let him answer at this stage and then proceed.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The first question was why we object to an investment program of $2,800 million; is that it?


John George Diefenbaker: No. The minister stated that even if there had been no necessity to save dollars, the investment situation in Canada today would justify the denial of certain imports of capital goods.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The national income of Canada can be spent only once for one thing. My hon. friend knows that capital investment means the locking up of a portion of the current national income in fixed investment. In order to carry out a fixed investment program in 1947 of some $2,400 million it would be necessary, as my hon. friend is aware, to purchase abnormal quantities of supplies from the

United States. In other words our own country was not sufficient to carry an investment program of that size. The situation is very much along the lines expounded the other day by the hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario. He said that we are in a terrific boom, that we are spending money too fast and that the economy should be slowed down. Capital investment is one evidence of a boom period. The hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario had his own triple-barrelled program for cutting down expenditures. One was to reduce taxes, the second was to depreciate the dollar, and *the third was to increase interest rates. That is one way of doing it, although I had never before heard from that school of philosophy.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I said we should allow interest rates to increase naturally.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I should hardly think that the three are consistent with each other. However this is a direct approach to a direct method of reducing capital investment, namely to deny the import of materials required for certain features of that program.


John George Diefenbaker: If there had been no shortage of United States dollars, would the minister have considered that the government should impose a ban in order to prevent the expansion that was taking place?


Clarence Decatur Howe: If there were no importations-


John George Diefenbaker: With importations as they are.


Clarence Decatur Howe: If we had unlimited wealth in foreign currency I should hardly think there would be any objection to the investment program contemplated this year. There are automatic restrictions, as my hon. friend knows. At the present time there is only so much steel available for a program: of that kind. There are also other automatic checks. But if the sky was the limit, and if we had unlimited' quantities of United States exchange and did not care how wre used it, there would be no trouble about a program of the size he suggests. The limitation undoubtedly would be that of manpower. And whether that could be made up in some way by immigration, I do not know.


John George Diefenbaker: Ask the Minister of Agriculture.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


John George Diefenbaker: Well, until this
shortage developed, did the government have something in mind, even aside from the short-

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age of dollars, to prevent the acceleration of business in this country and the development which the minister has described as a boom?


Clarence Decatur Howe: My hon. friend has now got
into a different channel. He talks about a boom in this country. I am talking about capital investment.


John George Diefenbaker: I am talking about capital investment, too.


The CHAIRMAN:: I suggest the discussion should be related directly to the conservation of foreign exchange. That is the subject of the bill1 we are considering, and we are getting away from it.


Clarence Decatur Howe: When the committee resumed I made a general statement, and I think perhaps it is only fair to allow some little discussion on it. My general statement covered matters other than the subject under discussion.


William Ross Macdonald: If the committee
desires a wider discussion, the chairman will not object.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The only point is this, that the government has given warnings respecting shortages of materials from time to time. It has been trying to correct the shortage situation, so far as the resources of Canada would permit.


John George Diefenbaker: In shipbuilding, for instance; there has been a shortage of steel in shipbuilding.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The shortage of steel is not peculiar to shipbuilding; it is common to every industry in Canada. We apportion such steel resources as we have and as fairly as we can. But I do not think there is any industry in Canada which has all the steel it requires.


John George Diefenbaker: In order to remove from anyone's mind the suggestion that there might be unfairness, the minister should prepare to table in parliament at the end of each month a record of the permits granted and industries affected during that month. The minister has shown a desire to remove from anyone's mind the suggestion that there might be unfairness or discrimination in the awarding of these permits. The way in which that desire can be tested is for the minister at the end of each month during the session to lay on the table a record of the various industries affected and the types of capital goods they asked for, showing those accepted and those denied. Each industry, or each member within that industry, regardless of the order made,
would then know that the discretion had been exercised equally and fairly among all the members of one class.


Clarence Decatur Howe: There would be no objection to tabling a statement by the minister. But when one gets down to individual firms and discloses to the world in general the private business of those concerns-


Harry Rutherford Jackman: No.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Pipe down, my friend. If you have something to say, stand up and say it. I am tired of your casual interruptions from your seat.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Will the minister sit down while I answer his request?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I have the floor. You can make your statement after I get through.


William Ross Macdonald: The minister has the floor.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: He asked me to stand up.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes, when your time comes.
Rejections seldom reach the application form. A firm is told in a conference that we cannot permit the type of building in which it is interested, or the type of project it wishes to proceed with, and the matter is dropped at that stage. In any event, if someone applied and was refused I should think it would be most improper for the government to announce that fact to all Canada. There would be a good deal of resentment on the part of applicants if that were done. I am willing to go as far as I can with you along the Lines suggested, short of disclosing information which we regard as confidential, and which a private industry has a right to keep to itself.


John George Diefenbaker: I can see the point the minister makes, that there might be some objection on the part of one industry to having revealed details of permits granted to it.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Not granted.


John George Diefenbaker: Or those which
were not granted to it. But there can be no justification for not publishing a record of those not granted within a given class. If exercised in that way, a most arbitrary power is placed in the hands of the minister. The minister may view it as he wishes; he may become truculent when he is told about it. But the degree of his truculence reveals the degree to which he objects to reference being made to the tremendous power placed in his hands.
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Today he has shown a desire to meet some of the main objections raised from this side of the house. Would he be prepared to go so far as to tell the committee in detail each month the number engaged in the manufacture of one certain item, the number of industries which applied for capital goods imports, the number accepted and the number refused? Parliament would then be in a position to determine whether or not, within any particular class, one company or group was being allowed importations of capital goods while another manufacturing the same line, was being denied the right to import capital goods. Would the minister be prepared to go that far?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I will go as far as I can in any way that would be useful, without disclosing confidential information of the applicants. For instance, in line with my hon. friend's suggestion, if we had so many applications from the textile industry, and if of the total number we accepted so many and refused so many, I would have no objection to giving that information.


John George Diefenbaker: No objection to that.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Generally speaking,- the best test would be the general principles which govern approval or rejection, and those I shall be glad to state at any time. The members of the staff that administers this program are bound by the general principles. My hon. friend quoted from a statement made to the manufacturers' association. That is the document under which the project division is working. Any borderline cases are referred to a committee for discussion, but those are the governing principles covering the operation.


John George Diefenbaker: I have read five of these, but the sixth really gives an opportunity to the minister to show preference in favour of one at the expense of another. The sixth provides for the fabrication in Canada of a product or part formerly imported which is essential to Canada's economy. No. 6 gives the minster absolute power. It permits him to determine the economic development of this country in that he may allow one company to fabricate goods which were formerly imported and which are essential to Canada's economy. That is the one to which I make the strongest objection. No. 6 is an omnibus provision. If there are two or three individuals desiring to commence business in this country it places the minister in position to be able to say to one, "You can commence" and to say to the other, "You shall not commence."

I should like to ask the minister to elucidate upon and enlarge that point 6 which he placed before the Canadian Manufacturers Association. What are some of the industries which the minister believes could be set up in Canada to produce the products formerly imported which are essential to Canada's economy? Would the minister state two or three that are not operating today in this country but which could operate in producing goods essential to Canada's economy?


Clarence Decatur Howe: There are any number of parts industries which could operate here. Parts industries are expanding greatly, and the administration is encouraging their expansion. All that we ask of a new industry is that it make some real contribution to the Canadian economy. It is difficult to pick out of your mind any particular one. I might mention a company which has been set up to make shock absorbers for automobiles. All the shock absorbers which are made by this one manufacturer were formerly imported. That industry which has been set up to manufacture them in Canada falls into the category of an industry that is making a product essential to the Canadian economy.
Two million dollars are being spent in Hull in connection with an industry to make alcohol out of sulphite waste. There is a high United States content in that, but the resultant product will be a net gain to Canada and will represent either exports or a desirable domestic supply of industrial alcohol which is used in great volume. That is admitted as a desirable project.
There are several undesirable projects that run through my mind but I have not sufficient details before me to explain them. A new brewery would be an undesirable project, and we have turned down two or three applications. A new distillery would be in the same category, and new moving picture theatres and office buildings.


Mr. GIBSON (Comox-Alberni):: Is the
minister aware that there is a terrific shortage of office accommodation?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I know that.


Mr. ROSS (St. Paul's):: I do not quite understand the statement made by the minister to the hon. member for Cumberland and the hon. member for Lincoln. 'The minister said that any firm which was taking advantage of the ban on importations would be more or less breaking the law. I cannot reconcile the two statements which have been made by the minister. In one breath he says that this is not permanent, and in the next breath he says that industries are being set up. Is it the

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policy of the government to make this permanent? Are the industries which he hopes will be set up to make articles for the benefit of Canada to be here permanently or only for a short time?
In a former statement the minister said he hoped that certain things would be made in Canada which could1 be exported to the United States, bits and pieces or something of the kind which we could make here. Has the minister taken into consideration the United States tariff against those goods? Have any representations been made to the United States government with a view to allowing these goods to enter the United States under a lower tariff? How do our costs of manufacture compare with those in the United States? I should like to know what some of these articles referred to by the minister would be.
Is this program to. be permanent, or are these firms starting up in the hope that this exchange situation will exist for some considerable time and they will be perfectly safe for years to come?


Clarence Decatur Howe: If a firm wants to start up here to make an article which will sell at a fair competitive price, at a price which will still be a competitive price when the emergency measures are ended, that industry will be welcomed. It is the firm which comes in to take advantage of a temporary market shortage, to sell its product at an exorbitant price, that will not be welcomed.


Percy Chapman Black: I am glad to hear the minister say that it is the policy of his department to induce industries to locate in Canada, and that this program will be, as desired by the hon. member for St. Paul's, a permanent policy. Has the minister or his officials made any effort to have industries established in the maritime provinces on a permanent basis for the good of the Canadian economy? It is recognized by everybody, including the minister, that the industrial policy adopted during the war was not fair to the maritime provinces. We did not share fairly in that. This is another opportunity when industry can be established in this country, and the minister indicates that it is being done in some places. My inquiry is whether any special efforts are being made by the minister or those engaged in working out this policy to induce industries to establish in the maritime provinces. Our misfortune is that our basic products and natural resources are largely shipped out of the province in the raw, unrefined form. From the county of my hon. friend the member for
Cape Breton South, for instance, enormous quantities of coal and a very large tonnage of iron and steel in the roughest form are shipped. Today's price of that steel is two and a half or three cents a pound. That steel could be manufactured in refining industries into products worth a thousand dollars and more a ton, and the same with coal. There are many different chemical industries based on the chemical ingredients of coal which could be established in our province. The leader of the C.C.F. party suggests gypsum to me. That is another raw material of which we have enormous deposits but which are now being shipped out largely in the roughest possible form. They could be refined in the province if industries were established there based on the requirements of Canada. That would give a measure of fairness to our province.
In the county of Cumberland a salt-refining industry has been started. We have fifty square miles of salt deposits, running from four to five thousand feet in thickness producing and refining 125 to 150 tons a day. But it is being shipped away as pure as any salt produced on the North American continent. This great natural resource could be the basis of many chemical industries which might be established in our province.
There is also the salt mine at Malagash.in the eastern part of Cumberland county. There we have a very large deposit, and the only salt-mining project in all Canada, shipped away in the roughest and cheapest form.
Our lumber is shipped away in the roughest possible state. It could be the basis of many industries if they were encouraged to establish there and had some assurance of permanency. The opportunity came during the war period to help balance industry in Canada by establishing industries with some permanency in the maritime provinces. Here is another opportunity now to establish permanent industries in the maritimes and do a measure of justice to that part of our country.
There has always been a shortage of United States currency in Canada. There has always been surplus of importations from the United States. We have always needed to conserve United States exchange. Why could industries such as I have mentioned not be established, based on the natural resources and production of the maritimes? I appeal to the minister to apply his attention and direct that of his officials to this field, so that industries can be encouraged to locate in the maritime provinces. The minister takes credit for having established industry in Central Canada; but,
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so far as I know, no such efforts have been made and no such results obtained so far as my province is concerned.


Douglas Gooderham Ross: The minister says that this is not a protective measure.


Clarence Decatur Howe: It is not intended as a protective measure.


Douglas Gooderham Ross: If it is not so intended, why has the minister not been encouraging such firms as the shock-absorber firm in Hull to establish in Canada and manufacture their products here. We want these industries. The whole truth of the matter is that this is the strictest kind of protective measure that you can get. The government did not have courage enough to come out openly and use proper protective measures through the tariff to support industry in this country. That is the whole answer.


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is why you are a Conservative and I am a Liberal, I suppose.


Douglas Gooderham Ross: This is a protective measure which the government has adopted instead of imposing reasonable protection.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I am very glad that we are having an exhibition of a new method today and I hope that we can make some progress. I am grateful to the minister for giving the information he has. Nevertheless I want to come back to what I think we are in danger of forgetting, that this is a measure to save United States exchange, and we are primarily interested in knowing how much is to be saved and by what methods. The minister has given information in connection with the automobile industry, and so far as it went, that was satisfactory. But I am anxious to get information with regard to other items in schedule III. A good many of them cover structural steel. One item, 388b, covers steel which is not strictly structural. A good many other items cover various kinds of machines, traction machines, internal combustion engines, and so on. The minister, I think, is wanting to leave schedule III in general terms, telling us that he has not yet worked it out but that there are two methods, an over-all blanket reduction and the selective approach, and he feels that we should have the selective approach. Regretfully I think we must have the selective approach in some cases, but I am not at all satisfied that there are not many items in schedule III where there could be an over-all blanket reduction. I take it that the minister intends that over-all blanket reduction to apply to his regulations in connection with

the automobile industry. Is that a proper description of it?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I will not quarrel with the minister's definition of his own terms. But in the motorcar industry there are regulations which apply to everybody. There are over-all reductions which say that a manufacturer can get so many United States dollars in respect of every car he manufactures for export and so many United States dollars for every car he manufactures for the domestic market.


Clarence Decatur Howe: To clear up that point, my understanding of an over-all blanket reduction is a percentage reduction. In other words, if you brought in a hundred articles before, now with the restrictions you could bring in fifty. The automobile schedule does not work in that way at all. There is an element of selection. A man can bring in parts or he can bring in finished cars.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I will get away from the minister's own terms, which apparently I did not understand. What I am referring to is a regulation such as we have for the motorcar industry whereby each manufacturer who imports shall be entitled to have so-and-so. There are four items he is entitled to get in respect of each ear, and the same with regard to importers. I think that is what the minister called a blanket arrangement. I will call it an arrangement such as the hon. member for Lake Centre was talking about, under which everybody knows where he stands, and in which the minister exercises his discretion at the outset in framing the regulations, but after that it is the same for everybody. That seems to me to be a sound way to proceed, because then you have, first of all, an over-all arrangement which has many of the qualities for which the hon. member for Lake Centre asked; second you are able to estimate what saving you will make. It seems to me that we are not getting anywhere in this bill until we know roughly what the minister thinks he will save. He has told us what he expects to save in the motor industry. He has told us he has gone into it with the people in industry and he has arrived at arrangements satisfactory to them. That seems to me the wise way to have done it.
In connection with the steel industry, as I recall it, or at any rate in connection with certain of these other items, he said that they had a figure of $100 million in mind, but that it proved not to be enough. What I am

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suggesting is that the minister should do for us in respect of these other schedules as far as possible-and I think "as far as possible" means quite a long way-what he has done in connection with the automobile industry. Many of these items can be treated in the same way, and even in those which cannot be treated quite in the same way, I think the illustrations which the minister himself used at Toronto, and which the hon. member for Lake Centre quoted, should enable the minister to give us estimated figures as to the saving which is to be made. I submit that is what we are here for. Suppose, for example, we found that the whole saving to Canada was trivial, would anyone rise in his place in this house, would the minister himself, and say that all these powers were to be given to him for the sake of saving a bagatelle? No, he would not say that. Therefore we are entitled to know how much saving they are to get before we give these powers which everyone, I assume the minister included, dislikes.


Clarence Decatur Howe: My hon. friend has referred to a trivial thing. I point out to him that we have been an hour and a half on the stone item, where the total amount of United States imports amount to about S400,000.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: If the minister had told us that, perhaps we would not have been so long.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I gave the figures on Friday night. However, my hon. friend would like the savings on each item. I shall be prepared to give item by item when we come to them. The purpose of this committee is to take up the bill item by item. There is a difference between saving in production goods and in capital goods. For instance, take cut stone. My guess would be that we would save three-quarters of the imports, perhaps $300,000 out of $400,000. Again that depends on the volume of new building.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: May I make one further comment?


The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN:: Order; the hon. member for Cape Breton South.


Clarence Gillis: A few minutes ago I asked the minister a question as to whether he could give us a breakdown of the potential investment by provinces and whether he could indicate to the committee what percentage of this new investment might be Canadian capital. The minister said that they had put out a booklet which indicated what was done up to last year, and that they were putting out another one that would tell the story, and
that I could make my own analysis of it. i remembered that I had a copy upstairs, and I went up and got it. It was issued under the authority of the Minister of Reconstruction and Supply (Mr. Howe) to encourage industrial expansion in Canada. This is the title of it, "Encouragement to Industrial Expansion in Canada, Operation of Special Depreciation Provisions, November 10, 1944 to March 31, 1949".


Clarence Decatur Howe: If I may interrupt my hon. friend; that is not the publication to which I was referring. The publication to which I was referring was an analysis of business intentions for industrial expansion. I think he will find that he has a copy of that publication also.


Clarence Gillis: I have not a copy of that, but I have a few remarks to make on this document because it is relevant to this discussion. Before I make these remarks I should like to say this. As far as the bill is concerned, I am not particularly interested in the details. When the bill was up for second reading I made a statement on it. My opinion was that until this country has control of and develops the basic requirements that will enable it to be an industrial nation, all we shall succeed in doing will be to build assembly plants to assemble our own raw materials that are processed in the United States, and I am not taking back that statement.
I am not going to repeat what the hon. member for Cumberland said a few moments ago, but I agree with it, and I have said it in the house so many times that I am getting tired of hearing myself repeat it. Judging by the document that I hold in my hand, I would say that a large percentage of the capital being invested in new plant and equipment in Canada is accruing from the government in special depreciation allowances to the corporations which are making the new investment. That is my analysis of the document.
With regard to the allocation of expenditures proposed up to March 31, 1949, according to a map that is set out in the document, for the hon. member for Cumberland's information may I say that there is a proposed expenditure of $36,000,000 in British Columbia, $4,000,000 in Alberta, $2,000,000 in Saskatchewan, $2,000,000 in Manitoba, $165 million in Ontario, $159 million in Quebec, $11,000,000 in New Brunswick, $2,000,000 in Nova Scotia, and $1,000,000 in Prince Edward Island. I am not going to say there is any discrimination, but I will say that it is short-sighted investment for this reason. Industry is
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already over-concentrated in the two central provinces. That is clearly indicated by the government's program for the maritimes. I should say they are Ihe displaced provinces of Canada, the depressed areas, and are classified as such by the government. About all that has happened in that end of the country since the end of the war has been to export the people. The Minister of Labour made a statement in the house a few days ago which showed that he seemed to be proud of the fact that they had moved some four thousand people from Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, and that there is still an unemployed population of 4,500 there. If that is the program up to March 31, 1949, it is just a clear indication that not very much will be done to relieve the economic conditions of the maritime provinces. It is time that the people of that end of the country began to realize that the thing to do is to pack up and get out. If we keep on concentrating everything in the two central provinces of Canada what has to be done in the maritimes is for the governments of those provinces to do some government developing of industry themselves and seek overseas markets. They will perhaps have to build a merchant marine themselves to carry their goods across the sea. Unless something along that line is done, the picture is pretty bleak in so far as this particular program is concerned.
I am with the minister in anything he can do to stand Canada on her own feet and remove the domination that exists today in the field of industry and in our whole economy by the United States. My reason for asking the question as to what amount of United States capital was involved in this potential investment was to find out just what the trend is in the direction of further domination from that country.
From reading this document, I gather that the government is making most of the investment in special depreciation allowances, and this means that it is the taxpayers of Canada who are making the investment. If that is so, then, the government should have some say in the allocation of the industry as between one province and another, with the end in view of levelling the economy of this country and seeking new markets elsewhere if it is not economic to transfer our goods from eastern Canada to central Canada.
As the hon. member for Cumberland pointed out a few moments ago, one-third of Canada's basic steel is produced at Sydney, Nova Scotia. It is shipped up to this part of the country, and at rates that keep the plant down there in an uneconomic condition. I think the minister is well aware of that.

Dosco have their fabricating plants in Ontario and Quebec. They sell the raw material to themselves at their own price. They made the government subsidize them during the war. Today they can duck taxes by still continuing to give this material to themselves as cheaply as they want to, because no one exercises any control over them today. If this special depreciation allowance is the major portion of this investment, I think the government should have some say with regard to where these industries are to be established. I personally am becoming ashamed to be talking about conditions in my end of the country. Every time I pick up a government publication with respect to potential development in any part of Canada, the bad end of it is always the end that is really bad at the present time. I think it is nearly time that someone in authority in this country was big enough to get up and lay down a policy for the maritimes, to say that the people are to be moved out or that something will1 be done for them; either one or the other. The people are at least entitled to an honest answer on that question, so that they may not continue to grope around in the dark. I should like the minister to tell me whether I am right or wrong in thinking that the major portion of the investment to be made up to March 31, 1949, is coming out of special1 depreciation allowed- corporations by the government.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Mr. Chairman-


Mr. ISNOR:: Just before the minister
answers, and in order to make it unanimous-


Clarence Gillis: I asked t.h-e minister a question. I think he should be allowed- the courtesy of answering.


An hon. MEMBER:: The hon.. member for Halifax is supporting you.


Major James William Coldwell: He is going to make it unanimous.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The special depreciation was a means of encouraging private investment. As my hon. friend knows, the period- for accelerated depreciation, ended in March, 1947. It was an encouragement for rapid reconversion and for the expansion of industry to bridge the reconstruction period. I might point out- that the investment was private investment. The government has no say as to where the investment was to be made. If it was a desirable investment in- a certain field, the government granted accelerated depreciation. It is true that the period1 over which the money can be paid as taxes is shorter in those cases than in the other cases, but the repayment to the crown is exactly the same in- the long run. But those who were

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building were permitted to write off their plant out of earnings in a shorter period than would have 'been the case without accelerated depreciation.


John Lambert Gibson: You have to make a profit before you get your depreciation.


Gordon Benjamin Isnor: In order to make it unanimous so far as representations from the maritimes are concerned, I wish to join with the hon. member for Cumberland who sits with the Progressive Conservative group and the hon. member for Cape Breton South on this occasion.


Clarence Gillis: The days of miracles are not past.


Gordon Benjamin Isnor: -who sits with the C.C.F. group. He says that days of miracles are not past. Well, I hope not. I sincerely trust that the hon. member who made that remark will see a little brighter side so far as the maritimes are concerned and that, as a result of that new outlook, he will help to bring to the maritimes the prosperity which he and others are seeking.
I agree with him in regard to this quick write-off that has been permitted. When firms who invested during the war period are being permitted to write off almost their entire capital expenditure over a period of five years, it strikes the average layman that favouritism is being shown, not in the sense of the minister trying to favour any particular firm but because the large industries were to a great extent concentrated in Ontario and Quebec. Because they enjoyed this large write-off, it naturally gave them equipment at a much lower price than they would otherwise have had to pay, and in that way they have an advantage over those who are trying to develop new industries in other sections of the country. I want the minister to look at this in the broadest possible sense and to give the widest interpretation to his powers as they relate, not to the industrial centres, but to the outlying sections of Canada. For instance, in Halifax at the present time we have a program of construction that centres aro-und steel. Because of the lack of steel and the quota, this program is hampered. The minister might say, "We have given you a quota and we are living up to the quota." I say we should have had granted to the maritime provinces a much larger quota-or, in this case, to Halifax-[DOT] than would apply to other parts of Canada. Instead of the 300 tons a month that were determined on as our quota, the minister might well have said, "Yes, because of the conditions in Nova Scotia, you are entitled to 450,500 or 600 tons in order to bring about greater employment in the shipyards of Halifax."
Then he mentioned stone and referred to the fact that only $400,000 worth of stone was imported. Practically no stone for building purposes should be imported from the United States into Canada. If you go to Nova Scotia and New Brunswick you see stone everywhere. There are two or three stone quarries endeavouring to develop and expand and they find it hard to get the necessary funds from the industrial development bank in order to effect that expansion. I say to the minister who is in charge of this bill that that should be closely linked up with his bill, and it should be made possible to grant these concerns encouragement by helping them in their endeavour to expand. The same thing applies to other projects. Just recently a hew firm, a paint concern, was established in New Glasgow, in Pictou county, with orders waiting to be filled amounting $100,000. I think the minister should encourage that firm by helping them to expand. I refer to Tippets Paint Company which was recently started. I mentioned other firms when I was speaking the other day, and I do not wish to go over them now.
In brief, I am in accord with the remarks made by the hon. member for Cumberland and the hon. member for Cape Breton South in regard to the necessity for greater attention being paid to the maritimes. May I say to the minister, knowing that he is friendly towards our part of the country, that I feel that he would take the broadest interpretation. I used this thought the other day, and I think the same thing could fit into this picture. I said that when applications are made for loans, they should not be treated in the old traditional manner-where the test was: is it a good loan?-but should be dealt with on the basis of the purpose for which the loan is to be used. I say the same thing applies here. When an application for a permit is made from the maritime provinces, particularly from Nova Scotia, I say the guide should not be that the permit is granted on the basis of equality with other parts of Canada but should be on the basis of what good will the granting of that application result in, so far as Nova Scotia is concerned1, in helping out the employment situation.


Mr. COLD  WELL@: I have been sitting here patiently, Mr. Chairman, and I thought perhaps I might defer what I am going to say until a later stage. Since the minister said we were free to discuss his opening statement, I want to say one or two things about another matter. Before doing so, however, may I say that I agree completely with what has been said by hon. members from the maritime provinces as to the necessity for distributing industry more widely across Canada. That

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applies not only to the maritime provinces but to western Canada, and particularly to the prairie provinces. The figures read in this house by the hon. member for Cape Breton South emphasize that, instead of concentrating everything in the two central provinces, we should spread it out. I see the hon. member for New Westminster in his place. I well remember a discussion in the war expenditures committee when the establishment of an industry on Vancouver island was suggested because of the iron ore and coal there, and we were told explicitly that there was enough plant in eastern Canada and that, therefore, there was no necesity of developing those resources on Vancouver island. Yet since then, of course, we have had quite a large expansion of that industry in eastern Canada largely, as my hon. friend just pointed out, through accelerated or special depreciation.
I want to say something about the film industry. A few minutes ago the minister said one of the categories we are considering amounted to four or five hundred thousand dollars. Here is an industry to which I think more attention should be paid by the government because, as the minister pointed out in his opening statement this afternoon, it does not involve four or five hundred thousand dollars, but literally millions of dollars that flow from this country, largely to the United States. It is all very well to say that people's habits are pretty well fixed in connection with moving picture theatres. That may be so, but in the last couple of years we have seen that people can enjoy a new type of film. I noticed that the other evening the hon. member for Vancouver East spoke of the Eagle-Lion films that were coming in from Great Britain, made by the Arthur Rank organization, and how enjoyable they were. I do not think we have seen anything in the film industry in recent years to equal " Henry V," produced by that corporation. Some other Odeon films I have seen in which appeared James Mason and others, in my opinion were top-notch and free from much that is objectionable in some of the films we get from the other side of the line.
I believe the government and the country must give some consideration to ways and means of reducing the drain of United' States dollars in this particular field. I have before me a publication issued by the Dominion Bureau of Statistics entitled, "Motion picture theatres, exhibitors and distributors in Canada, 1946." In the general summary it shows that the box-office returns of motion picture theatres in Canada in 1946 amounted to $74,941,966, the highest volume of business on record, and that there was a net increase of 154 theatres over 1945, making the total num-

ber of theatres in Canada 1,477. I may say that at a time when we were short of material for the construction of homes that seems a very large number of theatres to be built in one year. Incidentally, I am told by the Famous Players people in this country that 1946 was a particularly good year and therefore should be taken as the peak; that it was likely to recede rather than increase, and I accept that statement. Of the total box-office returns, the federal and provincial governments collected $15,052,994 in taxes, leaving net receipts of $59,888,972 for the industry, and this amount was eight per cent higher than the net receipts of $55,430,711 recorded in the previous year. This is big business. Paid admissions during the year at the 1,477 theatres numbered 227,538,798, again an increase over the previous year of about six per cent; and incidentally the report says these figures do not include what they call drive-in theatres, for which no figures are available, or itinerant exhibitors, but they do not figure in what I have to say.
The point I am getting at is that fifty per cent of the 1,477 theatres were owned by individuals or firms operating only one theatre, and these houses accounted for only 19-2 per cent of the net receipts and 21-5 per cent of all theatre attendance. Theatres operated by firms owning from four to nineteen theatres comprised 11-7 per cent of the total number and had 11-9 per cent of the total receipts and
12-8 per cent of admissions. Twenty-five per cent of all theatres were operated by firms owning twenty theatres or more, and these obtained 59 per cent of the net receipts and admitted 56-3 per cent of all the persons attending motion picture theatres. The remainder of 13-1 per cent of the theatres were owned by firms owning two or three theatres, and these accounted for 9-5 per cent of total receipts and 9-4 per cent of total admissions.
In his opening statement this afternoon, speaking from memory I believe the minister spoke of some $20,000,000 being spent in film rentals and so on.


Clarence Decatur Howe: No. Just to keep the record
straight, the balance of payments taken out of the country was S20,000,000, of which $17,000,000 was taken out in United States funds and $3,000,000 in sterling.


Major James William Coldwell: The balance of payments, including film rentals and so on, was $20,000,000, of which some $17,000,000 was in United States dollars. I think almost every nation faced with the position we are faced with today has had to take some effective steps to meet the situation. We know Great

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Britain has done so. We know France has done so, as well as Norway and Sweden and, most recently, Czechoslovakia. They have endeavoured to find a way of meeting this drain on dollars. I listen to the Canadian actors who perform on the radio on Wednesday evenings, and on "Stage 48" on Sunday evenings, for example. I think the people who produce those programs on the Canadian radio have shown that Canadian dramatic art can reach a very high level. A week ago last evening a Canadian novel "Hetty Dorval" was dramatized. The drama was written by a Canadian associated with the broadcasting corporation; it was played by a group of Canadian actors, and I believe that play would compare with anything I have ever heard over the radio. That shows we can do these things in this country if we will. I do not know whether it is the fault of people who have failed to invest in this kind of thing in Canada that we have no national film organization.
Personally I should like to see a public authority similar to the radio corporation do something in the way of presenting full-length films of Canadian life. I am sure objection would be raised to that immediately. Some might say that could be used as a propaganda weapon. Today the national film board produces a number of excellent shorts and is performing a good service. This afternoon the minister spoke of the wonderful settings available in British Columbia for the making of films, and he referred also to Quebec. Let me say to the committee that other parts of Canada also could provide not only the settings but the stories as well. I know that wonderful stories could be told about the early pioneers in Quebec, and the same could be told of Ontario. The settlement of the prairies, from 1882 on, is an epic story that has never been told and may never be well told. The point is that if it is told, and if a Hollywood film company comes into Canada to do the job on one of our Canadian scenes, it will do it in the Hollywood fashion-one which is not always acceptable.
But, apart from that altogether, except for the hiring of a few extras who may assist in the making of the film in Canada, the whole of the rental of the film will accrue to United States interests. I should like to see something along the lines of what the British are doing, or what some of the other countries are doing. We should endeavour to get a quid pro quo, so that in this country, either through the national film board or, if you like, through the enterprise of Canadian people, we should make a few films dealing with
Canadian life and thereby save the drain on United States dollars. One has only to read this publication by the Dominion Bureau of Statistics and look at the books I have mentioned to realize the truth of what I say. Or, if one really wishes to read the story as it has been written by a man who, incidentally, does not share my political views at all, and who writes purely from the point of view of free enterprise, he should read a book entitled "The First Freedom" by Ernst, which is now available in the parliamentary library. That is a story of the films, press and radio, and a plea for the restoration of private enterprise in those fields. I approve of much of what he says, of course, because he exposes the manner in which great monopolies have been building up in these educational fields. And if one reads this book, as I have read it, particularly the section dealing with the film industry, he will realize that until we make up our minds that we are going to do something to deliver ourselves from the control of the moving picture industry exercised by a single group of people in the United States through their ownership of numerous theatres, and to protect the drain on American dollars, we shall not have accomplished much. In December, after I had made a speech dealing with this particular problem, in which I said: "Why should we prohibit the importation of citrus fruits and neglect this big film field altogether to save United States dollars?" I was informed that the annual exchange cost of the film industry was $10,000,000. not
S17,000,000. The figure I quoted originally was about the same as that quoted by the minister today, or within a very small amount of it.
Certain film interests in Canada wrote and told me I was wrong, and that if I had made all the deductions I should have made it would bring it back to about $10,000,000.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The $10,000,000 is for film rentals.


Major James William Coldwell: The amount I gave was not for film rentals.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The $10,000,000 is the figure for 1947 for film rentals.


Major James William Coldwell: They contend that is all we should count in. But supposing they are right; $10,000,000 is one of the largest categories in these schedules. It is a large drain on our currency. I say that in the exercise of his powers under schedule III the minister should give more thought as to ways and means and should study what has been done in Great Britain, in the Scandinavian countries, in France and Czechoslovakia, with a view to
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seeing how we can protect our flow of dollars away from Canada through this particular industry.


Mr. REID:: While I am in agreement with much of what the hon. member says, a statement was made a short time ago that most of the British films were controlled by Hollywood capital.


Mr. COLD  WELL@: I cannot say whether or not that is so. But I believe it is true to say that the showing of British films in Canada and in the United States, and of foreign films generally, is controlled by those people who control the bulk of the theatres in the United States and Canada; and they, of course, are Hollywood interests. So that, in reality, perhaps there is some truth in that statement. The minister says we should stop building theatres during this time. I agree with him. According to these figures, 154 were built in 1946, and I think that was too many. But if leniency is to be shown, then I suggest that it should be shown toward any organization which is trying to build theatres to give competition to this tightly owned industry in Canada, and that that should be encouraged. If we are to exercise discrimination, let us exercise it in the right way. The only thing I am doubtful about is as to whether I am correct in this, because I see the hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario applauding me when I say that.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I am applauding the word "competition".


Mr. COLD  WELL@: My hon. friend's
applause makes me doubtful as to whether I have said the right thing. However, I have said what I intended to say.
I know that this is an industry in which great interests are involved. I do not want to see Canada play into the hands of any particular interests. This is an industry in which I believe there should be competition, whether that competition is encouraged by the government or is undertaken by private people; because, in the realm of education, competition is, I believe, a very good thing.


Humphrey Mitchell: That is good socialism.


Mr. COLD  WELL@: I believe in the right kind of competition. My main criticism against this whole system in Canada is that it is throttling competition and building up great monopolies. It prevents the average man from getting the opportunity to live a full and free life. In a time of depression, what chance has a gifted fellow who must dig ditches or who has to go on relief, to

develop his individuality? Too often we have consigned large numbers of our men to that kind of Telief, where they' are regimented, where there is no opportunity for their personalities to develop or to express themselves properly.


Clarence Decatur Howe: If we might get back to the item under consideration, I believe we should do so. We have had two hours of general discussion; surely that is sufficient.
Mr. COLDW'ELL: The minister invited us to express ourselves as to what he said earlier, and I took my opportunity.


Mr. SKEY:: Before returning to the item might I say I found the remarks of the hon. member for Rosetowm-Biggar most interesting. In his words I found a defence of private enterprise when he referred to the development of Canadian industry, and made mention of competition. That was certainly most encouraging; perhaps some of the things we have said are taking effect.
I should like to endorse many of the things the hon. member said about United States films. Perhaps he has not seen the statement made by Sir Henry Wood who said, upon leaving Hollywood, that Hollywood was a national disaster greater than world war II. He said it was a collection of ignorant men [DOT] who ran the industry for the benefit of unhealthy women. I would not go as far as that, but I think we are subjected to a tremendous amount of propaganda which is not altogether healthy as far as Canada is concerned.
I was most interested in the minister's remarks to the hon. member for St. Paul's when he said that, in so far as Bill No. 3 was concerned, the doctrines of the Liberals and the Conservatives differed materially. I do not want to get into an ideological argument with him, but I would suggest that the hon. member's point was well taken. He suggested that the items in schedule III should be either removed to the tariff schedule or dropped altogether as soon as possible, so that business would know whether it was to have protection or whether it would have to compete with imports.
I suggest that there is no need to apologize for a policy which might be called protectionist. As the hon. member for York West has said, this exchange difficulty is chronic. So far as Canada is concerned, we stand it off for a while and then it builds up again. That has been our history for quite a long time. I thing it would be a wise policy on the part of the government in protecting Canadian industry, to let industry know as soon

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as possible whether the items under schedule III are going into the tariff schedule or are to be dropped altogether.
Any industry which might develop under an embargo should be given a chance to prove itself. As the minister is aware, a new project starts off with high costs and high capital expenditures. However, no one can tell what good management or the substitution of certain materials will do in a new business. It is possible and quite probable in many cases that, while a new business will find that they cannot be competitive immediately, they may, through substitution or able management or the use of new processes, be able to reach a competitive position. They might conceivably even become exporters. I strongly urge the minister not to apologize for this policy. We should try to develop every possible industry in the country even if it is necessary to give it protection during its initial period.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: The minister said that the amount of royalties going to the United States in connection with the motion picture industry was $10,000,000, while the total balance of payments in favour of the United States was $17,000,000. How is the $7,000,000 made up?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Property earnings and earnings of theatres.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Dividends?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: The hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar and myself are so much alike on this motion picture matter and, since I raised it and1 he endorsed' it, I feel that perhaps one of us might be wrong. Could the minister give us, within reason, some indication of how Canada will benefit from the deal he is making with the United States motion picture interests? I do not want him to say anything which might prejudice his negotiations, but the committee is being asked to accept his suggestion that if we allow this item to remain in full force and import all the United States moving pictures that we want, there will be a quid pro quo. I am thinking of what happened in the United Kingdom and other countries which formerly imported United States moving pictures.
The S17,000.000 or even the $10,000,000 which the United States film industry is now getting from Canada is of tremendous importance to them because' it goes into their earning account. I should think they would be willing to spend from their operating account an equivalent amount of United States dollars in Canada. I think the committee is entitled
to know how much we are likely to expect from the quid pro quo which the minister mentioned. Will it be more than $17,000,000 or substantially less?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The only value of the quid pro quo would be to reduce the balance of payments figure. In other words, instead of $10,000,000 going across the line, we hope to have money coming back as payment of services and that would reduce the amount. This bill has only one object, the saving of United States dollars. It is not intended to change the morals of the country or anything else. It is just as simple as that. Our efforts are being directed towards achieving a quid pro quo which will cut down the balance of payments.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: One hundred per cent?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The objective may be that but- we may settle for less.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: In his general statement the minister said that last year there was spent in Canada $2,400 million for capital equipment and machinery. Had his department made any estimate of the additional United States funds that came into the country by reason of the exports which flowed from the use of that increased capital? In other words, is it more than self-supporting because of the additional exports which are possible?


Clarence Decatur Howe: We cannot tell that with any accuracy; it would take a most elaborate computation-. You would have to make an analysis of every new industry, and some of it is not in the form of productive investment. It would be quite impossible to gauge that. In the first place, the 1947 investment is hardly yet in, production. For instance, how are you to decide what a highway system contributes directly or what a public utilities system contributes? The indirect returns are very great, but how can you estimate the other?


Harry Rutherford Jackman: I was thinking of the pulp mills and other projects which have been put up in this country and which must bring in a lot of revenue.


Clarence Decatur Howe: If you name the industry or the investment wre can make an analysis, but I do not think you can ask me to give the . over-all picture.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Will the minister state whether the policy of the government is to welcome capital investment in Canada at the present time by the United States?

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Clarence Decatur Howe: Broadly stated, I should think so. It depends somewhat upon the use to which the capital is to 'be devoted.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: What has been done to stimulate exports to the United States under the changes in the tariff? For example, I understand' that- we could export high quality steels which contain alloys. However, there is a duty on alloys coming into this country which raises the cost. I have not gone over the various tariff, items which might influence the cost of our exports, but would) the minister say a word or two on that?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Perhaps my hon. friend has not heard about it, but there was a most intensive examination of the tariff at Geneva a short time ago. Adjustments were made on the tariff into Canada and out of Canada and it is now much easier to do business across the border than it was before. I do not think we could suggest three months after, that we start immediately to make another change.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: I do not know whether the minister understood' exactly my question. A company making tool steel, for instance, could make varieties which require alloys and export them to the United States but, there being a tariff wall against alloys entering Canada, I understand, that raises the cost of the Canadian finished product so that it cannot compete in the United States market. It is within our own jurisdiction to lower our own tariff against these alloys if we care to.


Clarence Decatur Howe: If alloys are brought in to go into steel that is exported the cost of the alloy which is exported is refundable, so that it does not enter into the transaction. My hon. friend is talking about a wholly fictitious transaction. Any export is entitled to refund of any duty that went into its manufacture.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-378. Bars and rods, of iron or steel; billets, of iron or steel, weighing less than GO pounds per lineal yard: (a) not further processed than hot rolled, n.c.p.; (b) not further processed than hammered or pressed, n.o.p.; (e) cold rolled, drawn, reeled, turned or ground, n.o.p.; (d) hot rolled, valued at not less than 4 cents per pound, n.o.p.
Mr. TIMMINS:: We are starting now on the steel and iron items; and, having regard to the minister's statement a moment ago that the only objective of this bill is to save United States dollars, I should like to know what the. iron and steel imports are under this item from the United States in 1947 and what we expect to save in 1948 and the years to come. My information is that under item 378 we do not import any steel or iron from the United States and that most of this steel and iron is

produced in Canada. If that is so, why does item 378 appear here at all? Why do we have administration expenses in connection with this item? If my information is correct it follows, of course, that there is no saving in United States dollars under this item at all. If I may be permitted a little latitude, Mr. Chairman, items 388, 388a, 388b, 388c and 388d have to do with structural steel, and when we reach them I shall ask the minister how much steel we imported under these items from the United States last year and how much we expect to save this year. Over and above all that, my information is that except for a very few iron and steel items in this schedule the greater proportion of steel and iron enters Canada not subject to schedule III at all.
A few minutes ago the minister said there was a shortage of steel in every industry in Canada, so, that probably with respect to item 378 and all the other steel and iron items the government is putting no restrictions on their import, but we are prepared to receive every ton of steel and iron that we can get from the United States, and we shall continue to do so in the years to come because we are entirely dependent on steel and iron.
To get back to item 378, what, if any, steel or iron shall we bring in under this item in 1948, and how much will the saving be. As I see it, I can see no saving here now or for five or six or ten years to come. We have heard a lot about saving the United States dollar. Here is a good opportunity for the minister to throw some light on this item and on the steel situation generally.
I want to make one other suggestion in a general way. We have been dealing with the motorcar industry. What are to be the regulations with respect to steel? What is to be the governing principle and the method to be followed? If the minister can give us a picture of the general steel situation, starting off with item 378, it will be helpful.


Clarence Decatur Howe: This is a perfect example, Mr. Chairman, of a speech which could have been saved if my hon. friend had allowed me to answer his first question. The imports under item 378 last year amounted to $6,499.000. He asked how much we expected to save. We do not expect to save anything. In fact it is doubtful that we shall proclaim item 378, although we may do so if the steel is being diverted to uses that are not helpful in the present situation.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: You may put it under open permit.


Clarence Decatur Howe: 
Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: You have a steel controller. Could that not be done under him?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The steel controller can and does control steel manufactured in Canada, but anyone who is able to buy steel in the United States can bring it in at the moment and do what he likes with it, and he is apt to use it for purposes not considered desirable. But when the item is proclaimed a permit will be required and any steel imported will be under the same control as Canadian steel. That applies pretty well to all the steel items. We are short of steel in this country. We have not enough and are not able to import enough to carry on the business of this country. If we could get another half a million or one million tons of steel a year it would help Canadian industry very much. We are trying to get control of imports of steel to divert it to essential uses.


Mr. MacNICOL:: Do we make wide plates in Canada and, if so, how wide?


Clarence Decatur Howe: We make 56-inch plates here.


John Ritchie MacNicol: That is not big enough. That does not make large tanks. If the country can only get going again I am satisfied that the demand for steel will greatly increase. I have been in that business for years and know something about it. Ever since I came here I have advocated that all this material should be made in Canada. The minister closed his remarks a moment ago and said that we were not able to make sufficient steel in Canada. I have been hoping that in his own riding or in the adjacent riding a steel plant will be erected. The minister knows as well as I do that 140 odd miles west of his city they are producing a very high grade of iron ore. I have a piece of it in my desk that I got there myself. It is a most excellent iron. A lot has been said about Labrador. I hope Labrador pans out in accordance with all that has been said about it, but we are producing a very high grade ore at Steep Rock -there is no higher grade produced anywhere else today-in or adjacent to the minister's own riding. Is it in the minister's riding?


Clarence Decatur Howe: It is in Kenora-Rainy River.


John Ritchie MacNicol: It is not far away, only 140 miles west. Now that the minister is in charge of the production department, I hope that in some way or another he will bring about the erection of a steel plant in Port Arthur or Fort William, so that that very high grade iron ore-every pound of which is now being shipped out of Canada, with the exception of the very small amount that may go to Sault Ste. Marie for the blast furnace there-may be smelted in one of those cities and rolled into steel of all descriptions, including plate.
Earlier this afternoon an hon. member mentioned the big steel plant at Sydney. It seems to me I have read that, since the war ended, they are not rolling steel as they did while the war was on. That was plate steel, was it not, for ships?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


John Ritchie MacNicol: If that is so, it is too bad. If the plate rolling mill at Sydney is closed up or is not operating, it is just too bad for the maritime provinces where they need employment, and where the steel could be turned into ships that will be built because Canada will go along rapidly some time or another. If it ever gets on the way again it will go along rapidly. We have a blast furnace in Montreal; we have none in Toronto. We have two in Hamilton; the Canada Steel Company and the Dominion Foundries and Steel. Some few years ago they started to build a steel mill at Ojibway near Windsor, Ontario. They built two blast furnaces, but they were never used. They are still standing, although they may be obsolete today.
Since there is such a demand for steel in this country, I hope that the minister will use all the influence he can to help build up blast furnaces and steel mills in this country to roll the billets and so forth from Canadian steel. If the time ever comes when the Labrador mines are in operation shipping raw iron, perhaps there will be a great opportunity for a big blast furnace in Quebec. There should be one there. Three Rivers would be an ideal place for a blast furnace. The production mill could be either there or in Montreal. We could then make all these articles which are made from steel.
I understand that H-sections are barred. Is that so?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No. H-sections come in freely. They are not prohibited.


John Ritchie MacNicol: The item says differently.
Foreign Exchange Conservation


Clarence Decatur Howe: That item in the tariff does not include H-sections; it comes under another tariff item.


John Ritchie MacNicol: At present we make H-sections out of beams and other parts. I do not believe we are rolling H-sections, are we?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No.


John Ritchie MacNicol: They have to be
imported?


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is right.


John Ritchie MacNicol: I notice that last year we imported altogether $762 million worth of 'these products. That is a colossal business. Certainly we ought to be able to save several hundred millions of United States dollars there if we got busy and equipped our own plants to roll the steel that is required. In that way we could use up some of the high grade ore which is now going out of the country. Is it necessary to let it all go out of the country?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I would not worry about that. On balance we are terrific importers of iron ore; we import ten times as much as we export.


John Ritchie MacNicol: This year I suppose Steep Hock will produce one and a half million tons of ore. Last year they produced one million tons or more. Their objective is three million tons. Three million tons of high grade ore smelted with lower grade ore such as is produced on the Algoma Central railway at Newr Helen mines would mean a large tonnage.
As I have said before, I am looking to the minister to do something in this regard. He is one in the cabinet who has had business experience in a practical way in industry. I do not mean in a legal way; I am talking of things in big industry, in big works. I look to him to do a job for this country. As I said in the session before Christmas, steel is one department in which the minister has a job to do. I am sure I could do a job in it. I will bet any reasonable amount that I could develop in this country a steel industry of considerable magnitude. I know about steel and iron. Since we have the raw ore, it should be second nature to us to roll it and produce all the products that are required. I will help the minister in any way I can to develop a steel industry that we should have in this country. We should cut off entirely at least half of the $762 million worth of steel materials that we now import. We should manufacture $381 million w'orth of it in Canada by Canadian workmen.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: We are breaking some new ground here. According to the last answer of the minister, Bill No. 3 was supposed to be a United States dollar saving device. But the very first item that we struck in respect of steel is item 378 which reads:
Bars and rods, of iron -or steel; billets, of iron or steel, weighing less than 65 pounds per lineal yard.
In respect of this item we imported $6,496,000 worth in 1947. There is no saving at all. There will not be any saving this year, next year or, I predict, for a good number of years to come. I think the minister is not taking the committee into his confidence and he is not taking the people into his confidence w'hen he attempts to say to us that, in respect of this steel industry, we are making a saving. I should like to develop that after six o'clock.
At six o'clock the committee took recess.
After Recess
The committee resumed at eight o'clock.


William Henry Golding: We are considering item 378. Shall the item carry?


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: To continue with item 378, there is one thing the members of the committee now know and it is that there w'ill be no saving of United States dollars on this item or, in fact, on any other steel item in schedule III. It occurs to me that item 378 is either superfluous or is being used for a purpose for which it was never intended. If I understood the minister properly, he says that the item may not be proclaimed. But we should know now, if it is to remain there, what purpose it serves. Through you, Mr. Chairman, I shall recommend to the minister that the item be dropped. If we look at the order in council, P.C. 4678 we find that appendix IX sets down in a blanket way the items which are to be dealt with under this permit system, and now they have all been set out in detail in schedule III. So it is perfectly clear that item 378 was put there with a purpose. I am asking the minister now what this purpose is, why it should remain there, and why it should not be dropped.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The reason it is included is that it may be desirable to channel these imports into useful lines. As I stated before, we are short of steel. We are hoping to get more steel. If this item gets larger instead of smaller, that will suit us very well. But

Foreign Exchange Conservation
it may be desirable to see that the steel we can get goes to useful 'projects rather than to doubtful ones.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-388. Iron or steel 'angles, beams, channels, columns, girders, joists, tees, zees and other shapes or sections, not punched, drilled or further manufactured than hot rolled, weighing not less than 35 pounds per lineal yard, n.o.p.; piling of iron or steel, not punched or drilled, weighing not less than 35 pounds per lineal yard, including interlocking sections, if any, used therewith, n.o.p.
Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: With respect to items 388, 388a, 388b, 388c and 38Sd, perhaps the minister would not object if they were spoken to in a general way at one time. As I understand it, they represent structural steel, and; structural steel is one of the elements which the minister tells us are to be handled* under the project system. We are short of steel in Canada; we are short of structural steel; and I believe we import most of it from the United1 States. We depend1 upon them for our supply of steel. Bub when an owner or proprietor of a project or company comes to deal with the manufacture or the building of whatever it may be, he is mow compelled to write to the minister setting out the proposition, saying, "We want to go ahead with respect to this project". The minister writes back, in practice as he did in that Toronto board of education case we heard about this afternoon, and he probably says to the applicant, "Have you considered the use of cement or some other commodity"? It may be that the applicant says, "Well, I cannot use cement or I cannot use some other commodity; I must have steel in such and such a quantity". What is to be the final outcome of the matter? Can the applicant proceed with his job, or is he to be stifled? Is the word of the minister with respect to the project to be taken ahead, of that of the applicant. who knows what his economic pursestrings are and who knows how far he can go with the project? If, as a matter of fact, the 'minister is to have the power of life and death over the project, has he or is he to have at his side experts, such as engineers and architects, who will say; "No; steel should not be allowed for this project" or, on the other hand, "Yes, steel should be allowed"? If the minister is to have experts, then of course, it is the case of a clash between the applicant for the material for the project and the engineers who sit at the minister's side. Through you, Mr. Chairman, I should like to ask the minister whether or not there is to be an expert department which is to decide these matters of life and death in the industry.
My next thought on. the matter is this-


William Henry Golding: Order. Before the hon. member proceeds, there is something I should like to have clear. The hon. member for Parkdale has suggested that we deal with these items, 388 down to 393, I think at the same time.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: No, Mr. Chairman.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Down to 388d. Well, he can take 388e too, if he likes. Those are structural steel items. There is no objection to discussing them as a group.


William Henry Golding: As long as the committee understands what we are to do it is all right. If it is agreeable to proceed as the hon. member has suggested, we shall do so,


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: I suggested speaking to items 388a, 388b, 388c and 38Sd. I think 388e is in a different category.


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is right.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: I just wanted to make that clear.


William Henry Golding: Then we are dealing with the items down to 388d.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Yes. I take it that the minister, when he speaks, will say, in so far as these four items are concerned, there will be no saving on steel in 1948, 1949 or 1950. So that, if this project system is to continue, as a matter of fact we are talking about a longterm, long-range policy, and that long-range policy is not to be for just five years or ten years; it may be for twenty years; it may be for the rest of our lifetime, or it may be for the future of Canada. The point I am trying to make with respect to these sections is that, as a matter of fact, there will be no saving this year or in the years to come, or not for a good number of years in the future. The minister will probably say, "Well. I intend to put that steel to work in projects where something will be produced which will be sold in the course of time in the United States and will bring us in United States dollars". I am asking the minister to let us know what those projects are, and what regulations are to govern in respect of those various items. I think I will stop there for the moment.


Clarence Decatur Howe: If a project comes forward that is otherwise a desirable one but 'is using structural steel unnecessarily, the project will be approved, subject to the substitution of a Canadian product for the structural steel. The department has competent engineers who are as well able as anyone else to judge whether that substitution is possible; and if
Foreign Exchange Conservation

the owner is not willing to make the substitution, then, as my hon. friend puts it, he will be stifled.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Through you, Mr. Chairman, may I ask the minister a direct question? Does the department intend to set up a group of engineers to sit at their elbow and advise on these projects?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The department has now, and has had for years, a group of engineers; and it will be using them for this particular purpose.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Are they in the Department of Trade and Commerce?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No; in the Department of Reconstruction and Supply.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: That brings in another department. This is all under the Department of Trade and Commerce. Does the Minister of Trade and Commerce mean to say that, in order to carry this thing through, he must bring in another department to work out these details? Does he feel that his engineers are more competent to deal with these matters of whether there shall be steel or there shall not be steel than the architect for the party who is putting up the money to build the project?


Clarence Decatur Howe: This particular program happens to be in the Department of Reconstruction and Supply at the moment. Therefore we use the officers of that department, and in addition we borrow officers from the Department of Trade and Commerce if we need them; both work as one department. We believe our engineers are competent to decide whether concrete can be used instead of structural steel. I have spent most of my life in making such decisions, and I think I am still capable of making them.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: I stated a moment ago, and I should like the minister to tell me if I am wrong, that in respect of his long-range policy, if he is to make it work this thing will be going on for twenty or twenty-five years, and it is possible that neither the minister nor I nor quite a number of us who are here today will be here at that time.


Clarence Decatur Howe: If neither of us will be here, why worry about it? Let the next generation worry.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: But this is a turning of the road. If I may say so, this is an inverted form of socialism; and if you are not here next year-and I am not suggesting you will not be-we may not have a man who knows all about concrete in charge of these matters.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I thought probably you would
succeed me.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: It was a matter of interest and surprise to me to learn, as I understand the minister stated this afternoon, that under these four items there will not actually be any saving in money, because, as a matter of fact, we need all this steel we can get. So that this bill takes on an entirely different complexion. In introducing this measure, and referring to the controls under schedule III, the Minister of Finance said, as reported at page 335 of Hansard for December 16:
This control also involves examination of methods to reduce the net dollar deficiency resulting from many of our industrial operations.
Will the minister tell me whether I am correct in understanding that this has now ceased to be a matter of conserving United States dollars, but that it has now become a means of deciding how this material is to be used? In other words, it is a new control on industry that has nothing whatever to do with saving United States dollars. Is that correct?


Clarence Decatur Howe: It may be correct, but it has a great deal to do with earning United States dollars. This is the raw material of industry. If it is possible to buy steel at $80 a ton and sell the finished article at $1,000 a ton that is one way to increase exports.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I am not denying that statement, but it seems to me that this gives a very curious, unexpected and unintended, as far as I was concerned, use to this act.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Very logical, though, is it not?


James MacKerras Macdonnell: Does the minister now suggest that the scope of this act is not merely to say, "We will cut down purchases from the United States," but that in addition you may say, "We will bring in certain things from the United States which will not result in any saving, but by our wisdom we will so direct them that they will contribute more United States dollars"? Is that what the minister is saying?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Quite.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: At the moment I do not say whether that is good or bad in itself. It may be good, but it is certainly an unexpected result under this act.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Well, I am sorry to surprise my hon. friend.

Foreign Exchange Conservation


James MacKerras Macdonnell: Perhaps I am not the only one to be surprised.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Referring to what the minister had to say this afternoon with respect to new industries, I am interested in having the minister develop that point for a moment. He suggested that new industries coming along which might want some of this steel would have more or less to prove themselves to him or his department ; in other words, that they would have to show they would be able to compete with other industry in the country. I take it that is simply making a monopoly of the industries already in existence. I would ask the minister to explain if that is not so, if we are not creating monopolies under this bill instead of helping the industry of the country?


Mr.   IIOWE@: What monopoly is my hon. friend suggesting we are creating? Name one.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: I am only following up what the minister had to say. I understood him to say that if a new industry wants to commence operation; if it wants to build a mill to carry on a new project, he will have to know that it will be able to compete with other companies in the same line of business; otherwise it will not be able to start. What is that but a monopoly?


Lawrence Wilton Skey: Would the minister say whether he expects to be able to follow this program through with the present staff of trade and commerce and reconstruction and supply, or will he need' additional staff?


Clarence Decatur Howe: It is not anticipated that any great additional staff will be needed. We may need the odd man; but, as at present contemplated, it is not thought there will be any substantial increase in the combined staffs.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I am informed that a good deal of this material, particularly under item 388b, is ordinarily dealt with through distributors in the industry. Will the minister say if that is correct?


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is correct.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: So that, particularly under item 388b, the stuff would come in and would be handled by a distributor, from whom it would be obtained by the ordinary consumers, many of them small people such as blacksmith establishments in small towns and that sort of thing, I presume? Will the minister say whether that is correct?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: Then will the minister explain how the permits will be worked? Is there to be a permit to the distributor, and will he then allocate it to the trade; or has he to satisfy some government authority as to the propriety of every small bit of material he furnishes to the trade?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The process is just being worked- out. It is pro-bable that the distributors will receive blanket permits, and will be required to account for the steel they import. If some of their steel turns up in a project which has not been authorized it will be just too bad for the distributor.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: As I understand the minister, right now all these twenty-eight fabricators of steel in Canada, if that is the number, are getting their steel and ore from the United States without a permit?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: But as I understand it, and the minister will correct me if I am wrong, when they come to deliver that steel, or to accept orders for it, those orders will have to be screened by the minister or his department, so that he will say, "You may send that steel to this project," or "You may not send it." Am I right in that?


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is right.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: So, as a matter of fact, these four items do not mean a thing at the present time as far as the importation of steel from the United States is concerned? The steel is coming in anyway, whether or not these sections are here?


Clarence Decatur Howe: But may I point out to my hon. friend that I have no legislation at the moment which allows me to interfere with it. When you get through debating this bill, perhaps I can start.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: That is not being fair, if I may say so.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Of course it is.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: The minister has had
power since November 18, under order in council 4678. He cannot deny that appendix IX gives him all the power he needs. The only thing is that all these things are not enumerated. I am putting it to the minister that he is in an awful hurry to do something which may take, ten, twenty or thirty years to carry through. As a matter of fact, he should not be in a hurry at all about this matter. This has to do with the whole future of this country; and he should be telling the committee as he reluctantly told us with respect to the automobile industry, what the regulations will be and how it will be worked out.

Foreign Exchange Conservation
With respect to the steel industry, which is probably the most important factor in the whole bill, so far as the building of Canadian industry within our own country is concerned, I suggest that the minister should tell us at this time upon what formula we are to work, so that we may know, so that the public may know and so that industry may know. Will the minister bring forward formulae outside these project applications his department has prepared, so that we may know where we are going?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I will bring forward formulae. I have brought forward formulae for the automobile industry and, if my hon. friend will get on a bit with this thing, I will bring in other formulae. And I have given my formula for structural steel. It will be allowed to come in fairly freely, but the use of it will be restricted to approved projects.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Evidently, from the
minister's speeches, this is something which will be handled with the co-ordination of industry. I believe that is the expression he has used. I suggest there is no rush about this matter, so far as steel is concerned. We are not going to save any money for-


Clarence Decatur Howe: We are not rushing, are we? I would not worry about that. We have been three months on it now.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: I suggest to the minister that he ought not to be rushing us in respect of these items until he has formulated some sort of regulations or policy. It may be that the proper thing for the minister to do would be to get rid of all this red tape he has already set up in the motorcar industry. Perhaps these various projects should be handled on some percentage basis.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Perhaps my hon. friend had better forget the whole thing. He obviously has learned nothing from this debate up to the present time.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: I do not think that helps the debate any. I am sure I do not take any slaps at anybody else. I think I know something about the subject because, like the minister, I have spent most of my life at it. I do not think it adds anything when the minister takes a slap at one of the members. However, apparently the fact of the matter is that the minister is not prepared to bring forward any regulations.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I will let the minister take a slap at me now. I am interested in this poor distributor against whom the minister uttered his threats.

Apparently the power the minister already has is beginning to affect him. The minister's words were, if I remember them correctly, that if a distributor who distributes material happened to supply any of it to a job for which there was not a proper permit, it would be too bad for the distributor.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I did not say "happened to"; I said if he did.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: "Too bad for the distributor" were the words I took down. I am rather anxious to quote the minister-


Clarence Decatur Howe: But you twist my sentence around. I did not say anything about "happened to".


James MacKerras Macdonnell: The minister can give us his meaning, and we will start again.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Carried.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: No.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I am asking the minister if he will explain this a little further, as to how this distributor is to perform. Has he to satisfy himself as to the final destination of every pound of material that goes out of his place?


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is correct.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: He will be a government agent, to satisfy himself.


Clarence Decatur Howe: And he is glad to do it.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: What is that?


Clarence Decatur Howe: He says he is quite glad to do it.


Lawrence Wilton Skey: He has to be, poor fellow.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: That does not impress me, at all. Let us learn a little more as to how he will do it. Does that mean that in respect of everything he supplies to, let us say, a blacksmith in Huntsville, he must be satisfied that everything he supplies, however small, is permanently required ?


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Supposing a company in Canada wishes to build a refinery to refine oil and we will suppose that company puts in an application to the Minister of Trade and Commerce. What position will the minister take in respect of providing the steel for that project?

Foreign Exchange Conservation


Clarence Decatur Howe: If the project has a project number, which I assume it would have, for the refining of oil, steel would flow automatically.


John George Diefenbaker: I have one question with regard to all these items under schedule III. Is it intended to require permits and to prevent the importation of all these products enumerated under schedule III at any one time? In other words, is there to be a blanket requirement for all the commodities or products mentioned in that schedule?


Clarence Decatur Howe: We are not going to bring in a blanket order and apply them to all items in one day, for administrative reasons. But I would assume that over a period all of them will be brought in, yes.


John George Diefenbaker: That is one thing I cannot quite understand in connection with the minister's speech made before the manufacturers' association. He is reported, in part, to have said that it is not the government's intention to place restriction on all items at one time.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Quite.


John George Diefenbaker: Rather, to bring under control as few of the items from time to time as will accomplish the task of restoring our foreign exchange position. So that is this clear, that while the minister will have the power to require permits for all these products, he does not intend to use that power except in regard to certain particular ones as may be designated from time to time?


Clarence Decatur Howe: It is probable that in time, if the shortage of United States dollars goes on long enough, we shall bring them all in. But we will bring them in as administrative problems permit, and after consultation with the industries affected; which takes a good deal of time as my hon. friend knows.


John George Diefenbaker: That is a very proper answer. Then the minister must know of the particular items in schedule III concerning which he intends immediately to enforce the provisions. Has the minister made out, as yet, a list of those which will become effective immediately.


Clarence Decatur Howe: What does my hon. friend means by "immediately".


John George Diefenbaker: Well, I do not know what the government's attitude about "immediately" is; but it is the ordinary definition, not the government's definition. Is this to be done as soon as this legislation is passed?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes, as soon as the legislation is passed and approved, we intend to put in a number of items. The number is growing each day. When we have the formulae worked out for each of the various items they will be brought in.	*


John George Diefenbaker: You have been laying these plans since November 17.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


John George Diefenbaker: That is three
months.


Clarence Decatur Howe: We have no legislation yet, though.


John George Diefenbaker: The fact that there is no legislation has not always had a hampering effect on this government. Three months have passed. I realize that there is no legislation yet; yet plans must have been laid within a period of three months; because, if this is to be only a temporary measure and to last only for a matter of months-to use an expression used by the minister-then surely, after three months, the minister will now be in a position, with the staff he has at his disposal, to designate which of these tariff items referred to in schedule III will immediately be brought into effective operation.


Clarence Decatur Howe: My hon. friend has defined "immediately" as when the legislation is passed. Well, give an approximate date, so that I can work from it.


John George Diefenbaker: I can. When the minister starts answering questions and giving the committee full information, the legislation will go through. We want the information on a matter in respect of which apparently the government has been laying plans over a period of three months. In schedule III the government asks for power to require permits in respect of the various items mentioned therein. Are these items in connection with which there will be immediate priority granted and with respect to which the prohibition will apply immediate!}'?


William Henry Golding: I should like to remind the hon. member that there was quite a lengthy discussion on the general statement made by the minister. We then discussed items 305, 306, 306a and 306b. It was then decided to go on with each item and deal with the particular item and not go 'back to the general situation.


John George Diefenbaker: Thank you for the ruling which is in accordance with the facts. We are dealing with items 388, 388a, 388'b and 388c. Will there be immediate priority in connection with those four items?
1518
Foreign Exchange Conservation


Clarence Decatur Howe: There will be in connection with items 388, 388a and 388b. Item 378 will not be brought in immediately.


John George Diefenbaker: What about priorities on items 388c and 388d?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Item 388c is a large item of
8117,000.	Item 388d is 81,171,000. We have no plans for including that particular item.


John George Diefenbaker: The minister says that there are no plans for the immediate inclusion of those two items. Will the minister be in a position sometime during the discussion on schedule III to place before the committee the various items in the schedule which will be immediately subject to prohibition? The minister says it is not intended to bring in items 388c and 388d immediately, so that there must be some plan before the minister in. regard to all the items.


Clarence Decatur Howe: We are discussing the
individual items in this schedule. If the hon. member will ask me when we are discussing an item if we are going to bring it in, I will tell him.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: Am I correct in understanding that there is no actual saving of United States exchange under these four items?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I have explained to my hon. friend at least six times that this country is very short of steel. If we had another million tons of steel we would be exporting more material and bringing in more money. If we can get more steel, then, these items may go up; if we can get less steel, they may go down. However, the purpose of the items is to make sure that the steel we get goes into projects which are for the benefit of this program.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I quite understand that, and I understand that by the minister's adjustments we ^et more United States money. I am asking a very simple question.. Is the actual outgo of United States exchange to be lessened by anything the minister is doing here.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Wilt the minister tell us something on the positive side of this matter? He says that we are very short of steel, but he knows that we turn out a considerable amount of iron ore and steel in our own country. I quote from Saturday Night of a few weeks ago as follows:
Most of Canada's iron ore production, which is quite high grade, is being exported to the United States in exchange for ores that can be used to greater advantage in the furnaces here. In 1945 production of iron ore in Canada, prae-
|Mr. Dicfeubaker.]
tieally all in Ontario, was 1,135,444 short tons valued at $3.6*35,095. Imports totalled 3,739,867 tons (tons of 2,000 pounds) while exports were 771,495 tons.
In view of the minister's powers under schedule III, is he taking any part in the development of iron ore production and steel production in our own country? Could he tell us anything about the deal which I understand exists between ourselves and the United States whereby there is an exchange of high-grade Canadian iron ore for United States iron ore of a lesser quality?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The government has helped in the development of iron ore production in this country in one way and another, but it is not interested in trading iron ore for other iron ore. AH ore goes into the great lakes pool. Our industry gets the ore it needs out of the pool and the United States industry gets the ore it needs. A steel company cannot operate on one class of ope. It must buy certain ores for certain purposes. Certain ores are suitable for Bessemer work but not for other purposes, and other ores are suitable for blast furnace work but not for other purposes. Certain ores are suitable for making high grade pigiron while other ores are not. These ores are traded, if you like, in terms of dollars. We sell our ore into the great lakes pool for United States dollars and then we take the L'nited States dollars and buy the ore we require from the pool.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: What did the minister mean this afternoon when he said that there would be a rebate on the better grade of ores?


Clarence Decatur Howe: There is no duty on iron ore on either side of the lakes. I said that if we brought in steel from the United States and then shipped it out in the form of a finished article, the duty paid on that steel would be rebated. That applies to all manufacturing in this country.
Items 388, 388a, 388b, 388c and 388d agreed to.
Customs tariff-388e. Iron or steel side or centre sill sections, of all sizes not manufactured in Canada, weighing not less than 35 pounds per lineal yard, not punched, drilled or further manufactured, when imported by manufacturers of railway cars, for use in their own factories.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: We are going to ask the minister the same question on each one of these items. Is there any saving of United States dollars wuth respect to this item? Is this not an item which does not fit into the purview of schedule III? Do we not have to import most of these articles from the United

Foreign Exchange Conservation
States, and therefore there cannot- be any restriction against this steel coming in?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Imports in 1947 under this item were exactly zero. As a matter of fact, centre sill sections for railway oars are made ini Canada and there are none imported.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Is there any reason why this item should be in here? What is behind this item when, as a matter of fact, there is nothing coming in under it?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Some manufacturer might get the bright idea of importing sections when they can be made just as well in Canada. If he does we want to stop him.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: We are almost bound to bring in some of this material from the United States.


Clarence Decatur Howe: We do not, as a matter of fact.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Is the item to be
proclaimed?


Clarence Decatur Howe: It will be if anyone starts to bring this material in.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Is it to be brought into operation immediately on the passing of the act?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 4991. Traction ditching machines (not being plows) and complete parts thereof for production use.
James MacKerras Macdonnell: My understanding was that the minister would give us, under each of these items, the amount at present imported and indicate whether a saving was to be expected. That is the way he asked it to be done, and that is the way I presume it is to be done.


Clarence Decatur Howe: This is an ex item. The total imports last year amounted to 5270,000. Whether there will be any material saving depends upon the amount of highway work that is thought desirable as time goes on This is machinery for building highways.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Has the Toronto Rapid Transit System made an application and, if so, what has been the result?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No application and no result.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: There have been negotiations, have there not?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Not that I have heard of.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
5849-97J
Customs tariff-ex 409m. Internal combustion traction engines for other than farm purposes and complete parts thereof for production use.
James MacKerras Macdonnell: I thought it was understood that the minister would give us the imports under each of these items.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The imports for the whole tariff item amounted to $45,519,000; traction engine parts, S23,811,000. This is another ex item. I do not think there will be any great saving.


Mr. FRASER:: That will include truck engines?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes, it includes truck engines and traction engines used in lumbering. There is not likely to be much saving.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: The minister gave the imports as 545,000,000, and $23,000,000 for traction engine parts. Did we import that many internal combustion traction engines, apart from those used for agricultural purposes, last year?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Items 4091 and 409m are ex items, taken out of the larger tariff items. I do not know what the imports were under the ex items. I have given the imports as $45,000,000 and 523,000,000 for the total tariff item, but the ex items in the schedule are only part of the larger items.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Then the figures the minister gave us mean absolutely nothing for the purposes of this bill.


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is right.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Surely, when the estimates were being made up by the department and they were aiming at a target of saving so much in United States funds, they must have added up different items, and surely the minister's deputies have those figures before them.


Clarence Decatur Howe: No.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: We are getting just as much tired of this as the minister, but is it reasonable for him jauntily to throw out a figure of $68,000,000 and then say he has not the figures that make it up? Sixty-eight million dollars is a lot of money, and we are certainly entitled to a little more interest being taken in the item.


Clarence Decatur Howe: These are ex certain tariff items. I have given the imports under the whole tariff items, but I have not the ex figures segregated because there are no such figures available to us.

Foreign Exchange Conservation


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I have no desire to ask anything unreasonable, but I point out that in connection with the automobile industry, which is larger than this but not so very much larger, the minister gave us a definite statement and told us how they had worked over it and how the matter had been dealt with. Here is an important item involving many millions of dollars and all the minister has told us is that he does not think there will be much saving.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: The wording of the item is, "internal combustion traction engines for other than farm purposes." While internal combustion traction engines are needed on the farm for producing food and are valuable elsewhere, why is the farm classification the only one excepted? What is wrong with the use of internal combustion engines in lumbering and mining and general construction purposes, for the opening up of new roads for the development of our northern areas?


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I think this item should stand until we get information on it.


Clarence Decatur Howe: There is no reason why this item should stand. It is desired to control certain types of traction engines, and I have said that I do not look for any particular saving because the industry which uses these engines largely is the lumbering industry and it is expanding. I am not a prophet or the son of a prophet, and I cannot tell how many traction engines the lumbering industry will need over the next two years.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: The point I still do not understand is why, if the traction engine is to be used for agricultural purposes, no permit will be required, but if it is used for lumbering or mining or some other purpose, a permit is necessary. Wherein lies the distinction between agriculture and these other equally valuable forms of industry ?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The uses of traction engines on the farm are fairly well defined. This country is short of tractors and there is no reason why we should not permit farm tractors to come in. So far as lumbering and mining are concerned there is a saving to be made because there are substitute products which can be used in those industries. We in our wisdom believe we should have a look at these traction engines, which run into very large figures.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: The minister said there are substitute products. Does he mean substitute traction engines? On the farm, of course,
IMr. Howe.]
you can use a horse as a substitute, but in the lumbering business it is not so easy as that. What does the minister mean by substitute products?


Clarence Decatur Howe: They might use four-wheel drive trucks.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: They would be more expensive.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Perhaps so, but there is no objection to our having a look at them. My hon. friend has never seen any of these things, I suppose. Why should he question our belief that we can save some United States dollars by having this item under control?


Harry Rutherford Jackman: The department does not seem to know what it is. It has no idea of the amount saved under this item. In his references I wish the minister would leave out personal remarks. I should like him to know that I go to the movies occasionally if he does not. I should like to know just why the agricultural industry is to be excepted from this particular classification, when the value of tractors undoubtedly runs into millions of dollars in comparison with the lumbering and mining industry'. If we produce more lumber or more minerals at the present time we could export these products and they would become a source of United States funds. I do not understand the reason the minister has given. Because I was not bom or raised a construction engineer and, therefore, perhaps cannot take one of these machines apart and put it together again is no reason why I should not have an opinion on it.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: The explanation of the minister in respect of this item is apparently that it is not likely to save anything. He says, "We would like to have a look at the engines coming in", which would appear to me to put this section more or less in the form of a dragnet. That is what I am objecting to. I do not see why this item should be in here at all. I do not see why we should have a dragnet in respect of Canadian imports when, as a matter of fact, these items may be needed for the operation of industry in the country. The minister says, "We want to have a look at it". I do not think that is a sufficient answer. I do not think the public will be satisfied with it.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 412. Machinery, being presses for use in the printing of newspapers, of not less value by retail than fifteen hundred dollars each; of a class or kind not made in Canada; complete parts thereof for production

Foreign Exchange Conservation
use, not to include saws, knives and motive power; mechanical deliveries or conveyers for use with newspaper printing presses.
Gordon Knapman Fraser: Will the minister give us a breakdown on this item?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Item 412 covers exports of $726,000 in 1947. The item in the bill is an ex item. The number of presses and parts would not be as large as that. How much it is I do not know; therefore I cannot answer the question.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: The minister said "exports."


Clarence Decatur Howe: Imports; exports from some other countries. The purpose of getting this item under control is this. All sorts of new newspaper enterprises start up. We have already had applications from people who want to bring presses over to start printing pulp magazines in this country, which is a type of project that I have said frequently we do not wish to encourage. This is simply to make sure that the money is spent for material that is useful to the Canadian economy.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: The minister said that he did not want to encourage pulp printing in this country. I thought that was thrown out by the Bennett government in 1930 and 1935 and this government brought it in again. Were these presses brought in duty free before 1940?	'


Clarence Decatur Howe: I do not know.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Can the minister find out?


Clarence Decatur Howe: This has nothing to do with duty.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: I has to some extent, because I think they were allowed in duty free before.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs taritf-ex 412'a. Machinery and apparatus, n.o.p.; gun and mould apparatus for making press rollers; machines and apparatus for making electrotypes and stereotypes; engraving machines and apparatus, including proto-engraving apparatus, and other platemaking apparatus, used in the manufacture of printing plates of all kinds; machines and apparatus for graining metal plates, machines and apparatus for sensitizing, grinding or polishing metal plates; machines and apparatus including cameras and camera equipment, lens, prisms, camera and printing lamps, screens, and vacuum frames for transferring by photographic processes, or direct, to plates or rolls for use in lithography, rotogravure and printing; shading apparatus; machines and apparatus for addressing and/or wrapping newspapers, magazines, periodicals, pamphlets and catalogues; machines and apparatus for embossing or stamping, or producing embossed or engraved effects, bookbinding, looping,
stitching, sewing, gathering, inserting, bronzing, dusting, creasing, scoring, cutting, perforating, drilling, punching, slitting, re-winding, glueing, pasting, gumming, waxing, varnishing, carbon coating, patching, numbering, ruling, jogging, sheet piling, tying, bundling, cube-making, metal mounting, eye-letting, staying or stripping, reinforcing and box-covering; complete parts for production use, not to include saws, knives and motive power; all the foregoing when for use exclusively by, and in their capacities as printers, lithographers, bookbinders, manufacturers of stereotypes, electrotypes and printing plates or rolls, paper converters, or by manufacturers of articles made from paper or cardboard.
James MacKerras Macdonnell: (Muskoka-Ontario): Must we rise every time and ask for this list, or will the minister be sensible and give it to us as he said he would, instead of saying, "carried" all the time? We want the figures on this item.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The importations under the
complete item last year were $4,395,000. It is the intention to apply the permit requirements to this at an early day.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 412b. Flat bed cylinder printing presses, to print sheets of a size 25 x 38 inches or larger; complete parts thereof for production use; machines designed to fold or sheet-feed paper or cardboard; complete parts thereof for production use.
Edmund Davie Fulton: What were the figures on
this item?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The figure was $337,000 for the complete item.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 412c. Typecasting and typesetting machines for use in printing offices; parts thereof for production use.
James MacKerras Macdonnell: This item will not carry until we get the figures.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Item ex 412c, typecasting and typesetting machines for use in printing offices; parts thereof for production use; that is only part of the item. The total item was $1,385,000. I shall have to say again I have no idea what the ex represents in imports of typecasting machines and parts.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 412d. Offset presses, lithographic presses; printing presses and typemaking accessories therefor, n.o.p.; complete parts of the foregoing for production use, not to include saws, knives and motive power.
Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: What is the amount?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Item 412d covered imports of $4,369,000 for printing presses and parts last
Foreign Exchange Conservation

year; and typemaking accessories and parts, $52,000. These are two statistical items. Once again I have no idea what the value of the ex was.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Does the minister intend to bring this into operation right away?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Soon.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: From now on, these customs items all have "ex'" in them. That means certain things are excluded?


Clarence Decatur Howe: It means out of the item. Permits are required only for the items named.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: From now to the bottom of page 27, all the items are ex something or another; therefore the figures which the minister has indicate nothing. The minister has no figures for the item to which he refers.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Just for the tariff item.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: In other words, they are meaningless to us.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Item ex 413 agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 414. Complete parts of typewriters for production use.
James MacKerras Macdonnell: Not one of these items will be carried until we get the figures. Let me remind the minister of this. He told us earlier in the debate, as I recall it, that they estimated some $100 million saving on these items and they found that was not enough. We have not yet had any indication of any substantial amount of Savings.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I remind my hon. friend that he got an indication of $75,000,000 in the *automobile tariff item.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: Quite right. I am glad to be corrected on that. I understood the minister to say that on the other items they had in mind a figure of $100 million and then decided it was not enough.


Clarence Decatur Howe: No. I said on schedule III the estimated saving was $100 million.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: And decided that that was not nearly enough.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes. We picked up $75,000,000
on the automobile item, and I think we shall, pick up more as we go along.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I will take the $75,000,000.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: With respect to item ex413 and the other items, the minister has not intimated that there has been any United States dollar saving up to now. Will the minister correct me if I am wrong in that?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I do not know that there has been very much up to date. However, there are several more pages, and if we keep on, perhaps we shall find something.
Mr. TIMM'INS: Up to this point, I think it is fair comment to say that the minister has indicated in one or two of these items that he did not think there would be any saving at all. Up to this point, has there been any dollar saving on any steel or iron item?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Not yet.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 414a. Complete parts of dictating, transcribing and cylinder shaving machines for production use.
Lawrence Wilton Skey: Will the minister give us the figure for this item?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The total for tariff item 414a is $886,000. That is the amount brought in last year. Dictating machines and parts are the parts covered. As I say, I do not know what they represent out of the total tariff item. The total tariff item was $886,000. We are attempting to control only the dictating machines and parts.


Lawrence Wilton Skey: As I read the item, the complete parts are put under embargo or quota.
Is that correct?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The dictating machines are in schedule I and are not being brought in at all. The item is schedule III refers to parts. Parts will be brought in as required to keep the existing machines in order.


Lawrence Wilton Skey: Is it the minister's intention to call this item for operation immediately?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 414c. Bookkeeping, calculating and invoicing machines, and complete parts thereof for production use, and complete parts of adding machines for production use.
Harry Rutherford Jackman: Has the minister given any consideration to the fact that many of these items such as dictating machines and so forth are labour saving devices; and if their importation is allowed, there will be a saving of manpower in the country, and in the

Foreign Exchange Conservation
general run of things a good deal of manpower will be available for the export industry? I merely have to recall to the minister's attention that about thirty-seven per cent of all our output is exported to one country or another, a good deal of it going to the United States. Would he give the committee the benefit of his observations on the propriety of taking in a certain amount of labour saving devices from the United States in order that labour may 'be made available to industry generally? And, of necessity, part of it will go to the export industries.


Clarence Decatur Howe: As a short-term project, we would rather save capital investment and use the labour.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 415. Electric vacuum cleaners and attachments therefo-r; hand vacuum cleaners; and complete parts of all the foregoing for production use.
Edmund Davie Fulton: Has there been some substitution in this item 415, or does it stand as it is written here?


Clarence Decatur Howe: It stands as written. That is with regard to parts for vacuum cleaners?


Edmund Davie Fulton: Yes, complete vacuum
cleaners and parts therefor. Could we use item 415 and the following three items to ask the minister whether this is an example he can use to give us an illustration of how he would propose to build that Canadian industry to effect a permanent saving of United States dollars? This afternoon he gave an illustration of the type of industry which would be encouraged in Canada, namely the case of an industry manufacturing shock-absorbers to help in the manufacture of automobiles. Here we have an important category of industries manufacturing electrical household appliances. I understand that the import from the United States of these parts and complete machines is to be restricted. Therefore, on the strength of the minister's illustration, it seems to be that this would be a useful field for the establishment of a Canadian parts industry. Will he correct me if I am wrong? And if I am not wrong, will be show us just how he would go about building up a Canadian industry so that we would not have to import those parts from the United States?


Clarence Decatur Howe: There are in Canada, several makes of vacuum cleaners. I hardly think one parts industry could make parts for a considerable number of brands of vacuum cleaners. However, vacuum cleaners are made in Canada; and if an industry were to
start up to make parts in order to round out Canadian production, it would be a useful industry.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Is the department taking positive steps to encourage the establishment of a parts industry? Item 415b refers to complete parts of washing machines, domestic, for production use. I take it that the import of parts for those is now restricted. We produce washing machines in Canada, or at least we assemble them. Therefore are any positive-steps being taken to establish a Canadian washing machine parts industry im order to effect a permanent saving of United States dollars?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The method to be used here is the method used in the automobile industry. We are rationing the United States dollars allowed for the importation of parts, which has the indirect effect of bringing about the manufacture of parts in Canada.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Can the minister give us an indication of whether he expects or has definite signs that electrical parts manufacturing industries are to be established? What positive developments have taken place since the minister began to restrict the importation of these parts?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I have not yet begun to restrict the importation of these parts. I have not my legislation. But there is definite legislation-


Edmund Davie Fulton: But you have this-surely I am not wrong-


Clarence Decatur Howe: It does not apply to me.


Edmund Davie Fulton: -under P.C. 4678?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No. It does not apply to the Minister of Trade and Commerce or to the Minister of Reconstruction and Supply; it applies to the Minister of Finance:


Edmund Davie Fulton: Yes, but the effect of it is to restrict the importation of these items which are now in schedule III. Surely the Minister of Trade and Commerce must know what has been the effect of the restriction to date.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The effect of the restriction generally is greatly to stimulate the parts industry. There is a tremendous expansion going on at the moment in the manufacture of components.


Edmund Davie Fulton: That is what I am asking, if the minister can tell us. In this case this seems to me to be a useful sample type. Can
Foreign Exchange Conservation

the minister tell us whether, in these items 415, 415b, 415c and 415d, there have been any concrete developments, so that we can get a picture of what is going on instead of just generalities?


Clarence Decatur Howe: May I point out that these parts are not yet under restriction. Anyone can bring in all the parts for vacuum cleaners that he wishes at the moment, and he can bring in all the parts for washing machines that he wishes. As I say, if we can get this legislation through, we will put them under restriction and go ahead to secure some restriction. But at the moment there are no restrictions on the importation of parts.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Appendix IX of P.C. 467S reads as follows:
Any metals or manufactures thereof not included in Appendix VII or Appendix VIII, and not including machinery or equipment for use in the agricultural or fishing industries.
I seems to me that would certainly cover these parts which are now included in schedule III. They are obviously restricte'd under appendix IX of P.C. 4678.


Clarence Decatur Howe: There is a general permit for all that material and the exemption is applicable until it is withdrawn. This is the present position of it. I want to make it clear that I will not undertake to operate .schedule III until I get legislation. Hon. members opposite are preventing me from getting legislation. Therefore they are preventing this getting into effect. If that can be understood, we could stop talking about an effective order, because it is not in effect.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Just a minute. We have heard that so often when it is already completely in effect. I have asked the minister, and I am trying to be reasonable whether it is not the case that, under appendix IX of P.C. 4678, the import from the United States of items such as these we are now discussing is restricted.


Clarence Decatur Howe: No.


Edmund Davie Fulton: What is the answer to that?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No.


Edmund Davie Fulton: What is the effect of appendix IX?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I do not know.


Edmund Davie Fulton: I beg the minister's pardon? I did not catch his answer.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I told my hon. friend. I have answered his question. There is no restriction
(Mr. Fulton.]
at the moment on the importation of parts for vacuum cleaners and washing machines.


Edmund Davie Fulton: I accept that. I am not trying to be smart. Then will the minister answer the question I asked, namely, what is the effect of appendix IX of P.C. 4678?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I nave never read it. I don't know what it is.


William Henry Golding: Shall the
item carry?


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Carried.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Mr. Chairman, in common with a number of other members, I am trying to understand the situation we find ourselves in. Will the minister ask one of his colleagues- if he wants to call me stupid, I will accept it-and tell us what the effect of appendix IX is?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No, I would not do that. It has nothing to do with schedule III; I know that.


Edmund Davie Fulton: I am certainly under the impression that the Minister of Finance said that appendix VII correspond to schedule I, appendix VIII to schedule II and appendix IX to schedule III. Now we have a complete contradiction, and that makes intelligible discussion impossible. Responsibility for that is not on the opposition but rather on the ministerial benches.


William Henry Golding: Shall the item carry?


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: There is not any question, Mr. Chairman, that appendix IX of P.C. 4678 covers the items in schedule III, and the minister cannot deny it. He is covering up because, as a matter of fact, he had put the items of schedule III into operation under appendix IX and he is not willing to admit it.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I said so five times.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: The responsibility rests on the minister.


Mr. FERGUSON:: From the speed with which the government is trying to get this through, it is quite apparent-and it must be an eye-opener to the Canadian people-that the restriction of certain imports means increased labour and wealth for Canada. The Liberal government is trying to save its bacon by putting up restrictions, something the Tory party has been advocating here for years. Even the C.C.F. party down here can see the great need of these restrictions. They are

Foreign Exchange Conservation
getting away from their ideas of free trade with Russia and other countries, because they believe this will help labour.


William Henry Golding: Order. I
would remind the hon. gentleman that we cannot permit any general discussion. He must deal with the item we are on, 415.


Julian Harcourt Ferguson: I was dealing with these items, covering them all.


Edmund Davie Fulton: When we deal with the particular items we cannot get any information, so surely we might as well have a general discussion.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I am glad to see that this nonsense of "Progressive Conservatives" has gone by the board. It is the old Tory party.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 415b. Complete parts of washing machines, domestic, for production use.
Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Would the minister tell us what amount came through by way of imports from the United States under this item, and what the saving will be?


Clarence Decatur Howe: 1740,000.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 415c. Complete parts of domestic clothes wringers for production use.
Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: We would like the same information on this. What were the imports last year?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I have not that information.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: I think we should leave the item if the minister has not the information.


Edmund Davie Fulton: When the Minister of
Finance was dealing with schedules I and II, and when he was here with his experts before him. it was stated that at the present time, under P.C. 4678, permits for items covered in appendix IX were issued by the Minister of Finance on the advice of the Minister of Trade and Commerce. The Minister of Trade and Commerce has just told me that he has nothing to do with appendix IX; that he does not know what it is about because he did not write it, and he cannot say anything about the articles covered in it. As I say, that makes discussion impossible. I should like the minister to say whether the Minister of Finance was correct in the statement he made.


William Henry Golding: Carried.


Edmund Davie Fulton: No, Mr. Chairman. I asked the minister a question, and I would like an answer.


William Henry Golding: The hon. member must deal with item 415c.


Edmund Davie Fulton: With respect, Mr. Chairman, I was dealing with item 415e. I asked the minister a question about it, and he said it is not restricted. I asked whether it was not restricted under appendix IX, and he said it was not restricted because this schedule has not gone into effect. I asked whether the same item was not restricted under appendix IX of P.C. 4678, and he said he did not know. I am now trying to follow up that point. The Minister of Finance has said he acts under appendix IX on the advice of the Minister of Trade and Commerce, and I am asking the Minister of Trade and Commerce if the Minister of Finance was correct.


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is correct, but the Minister of Trade and Commerce has given no advice on this item. He has given advice on eight or nine items, including the automobile schedules and a few others, but he has not given advice on this item. Therefore there is no restriction on the imports.


Edmund Davie Fulton: That answer might have been given five minutes ago, and saved our time.


Mr.   SICEY@: Therefore the Conservative party is not holding up the business.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-415d.	Sewing machines,
other than domestic, with or without motive power incorporated therein; complete parts of sewing machines for production use.
Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: What were the imports under this item in 1947? Further than that, I have been under the impression that to some extent sewing machines were a monopoly, so that I would be interested to learn how the minister will make any saving on this item.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Imports under this item were $3,501,000, but that is a very good: earner of United States dollars. The export part of the industry is more important than the domestic part, so that we will endeavour to frame our regulations in consultation with that industry in order that there will be further incentive to export.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: In other words, there will probably not be much in the way of any saving here?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Not unless there is a drop in exports.
1526

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Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: There may be some sort of quid pro quo ia respect of it?


Clarence Decatur Howe: An export bonus.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 420. Machinery of a class or kind not made in Canada, when imported by manufacturers of leather for use exclusively in the tanning of leather or the embossing of leather, in their own factories, under regulations prescribed by the minister, and complete parts thereof for production use.
William Henry Golding: Carried.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I want to ask a question here. I have never seen a man behave in the way the minister is behaving tonight. I raised a question the other evening and asked if the minister would give us an over-tall figure, but he said no, he would do it item by item. If he will behave in ta civilized manner here and give us what we have been tasking for there will be no difficulty at all. We do not want to obstruct; we just want the information on each item we come to. You, Mr. Chairman, hurry it through, giving no opportunity for questions, or at least you are hurrying us along so that it is easy for the minister to refrain from doing what he said he would do. If the minister would behave as any other minister behaves he would stand up and give us those figures and there would be no difficulty whatever.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Well, let us look at item 420 as an example of what my hon. friend wishes. He wishes me to give the saving in United States dollars.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: If possible.


Clarence Decatur Howe: It depends entirely upon the growth of the exports. If he will tell me what export figure he would like to base an estimate upon, I might be able to give him the information; but, as I have explained time and time again, there are two ways in which this schedule can help us. One is by discouraging imports; the other is by stimulating exports. One depends upon the other. If exports are greatly stimulated there will be an increase in imports. If there should be a falling off in exports there will be a corresponding or larger falling off in imports. How in the world can I give you average figures? You know that as well as I do. It'is all very well to stand up and parrot away, "We must have the figures of savings." My hon. friend knows as well as I do that one depends upon the other. Without knowing the level of exports it is quite impossible to give the level of savings.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: Mr. Chairman-


Clarence Decatur Howe: Nevertheless we shall have it again.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: In his heart I do not think the minister believes I am unreasonable. The minister is being difficult here, apparently purposely. I am not asking him for the impossible. He has given us figures in certain categories. If he wants to stand up and say that in this case he cannot give the figure, that is all right; but it has been like drawing teeth to get those figures item by item. We can settle this whole thing if he will just go through the items and give us what figures he can and tell us the items on which he cannot give us the figures. Then we can make up our minds whether we want to ask any further questions, because we shall know what he has and what he has not.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 422. Street or road rollers and complete parts thereof for production use.
William Henry Golding: Carried.
Customs tariff-ex 422a. Concrete road paving machines, self-propelling, end loading type, with a capacity of 21 cubic feet of wet concrete or more; concrete and asphalt road finishing machines; form graders; sub-graders; combination excavating and transporting scraper units; concrete mixers, transit type; dump wagons or trailers, having a capacity of 10 cubic yards or over, not self-propelled; back-filling machines and equipment, mounted on self-propelling wheels or crawling traction, semi- or full-revolving boom and scraper type; steam or air driven pile hammers or extractors; well-points; truck turntables; all the foregoing of a class or kind not made in Canada; complete parts thereof for production use.


William Henry Golding: Carried.
Customs tariff-ex 422b. Trench and ditch excavating machines, round wheel or vertical or ladder boom, chain and bucket type, for vertical digging or sloping bank ditches; complete parts thereof for production use.


William Henry Golding: Carried.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: No, they are not carried. At least we can have the figures for last year, and ascertain whether the minister has any comment to make.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Last year the imports under item 422a were $3,259,000. Road building is mainly carried on by provinces and municipalities. I have sent an appeal to them to restrict the work as much as possible during 1948. Whether or not they do restrict such work will have a direct bearing on whether there will be any saving in imports.

Foreign Exchange Conservation


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Suppose they do not follow the suggestion of the minister; will he issue any directive in respect of what shall come in and what shall not come in?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Certainly we will issue permits for what comes in, or refuse to issue them for what stays out. Nevertheless, if the provinces and municipalities insist that they must have a great deal of road making machinery we shall have to give some regard to their requirement.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: The minister will have to
use discretion in respect of the permits he issues.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes. Don't start that again. I use discretion with regard to everything.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Will the minister give us some idea as to how he intends to exercise that discretion. What figures has the minister in mind with respect to what will be saved under this item?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Nothing in my mind at all.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Get that on Hansard.


Humphrey Mitchell: Give somebody else a chance.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: I was asking a question. I am quite prepared to stand aside. Perhaps the minister will give an answer before we are through.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The purpose will be to import as little road making machinery and parts as it is believed will meet the requirements of the situation .confronting us. That is all I can say about it.


Mr. HANSELL:: I rise personally to oppose this item, for the reason that some of the provinces are hard up for road machinery. During the war, much of their machinery deteriorated; much of it was used for purposes other than road making.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: For building air fields.


Ernest George Hansell: Some of the machinery was used on the Alaska highway. There are not so many paved roads in western Canada, and many of them have deteriorated tremendously in past years. Gravel roads do not hold up for any length of time.
Provincial governments have had to go to their taxpayers to get money to maintain those deteriorating roads. Those provincial governments have had to say to their people, "Well, it is only for a time; when the war is over we shall be able to have our machinery replenished. Then we will put on a good-5849-98i
roads program." This item will bring about the trouble, all over again, and I must register my protest now.
It is all very well for us to say that we will deal with the provinces. I know the provinces will want to play fair with this program, in the national interest. But I do not believe we can expect them to cut down on their road machinery orders when they are in such dire need.
During the course of the discussion, mention was made of the amount of United States dollars we could obtain through the tourist traffic. If there is one thing which more than any other will hurt our tourist traffic in Canada, surely it is bad roads. Let us make no mistake about that. When many of our Canadian people wish to cross the country they will go across the border into the United States to use the roads of that country.	[DOT]


John Ritchie MacNicol: They do it now.


Ernest George Hansell: I have travelled on United States highways. I took a trip to Vancouver last fall, a distance of about 1,200 miles from my home, and, after obtaining a report respecting some of the roads on the all-Canada route, I decided I would not take a chance on that route, and went by United States roads. Arriving at Vancouver, I stayed at a small auto-court and, while there, met one or two United States tourists. Seeing my Alberta licence, they asked me if I had come over such-and-such a highway. I said, "No, I did not; I came over an American route." "Well," they said, "good for you; we came over that highway, but, believe me, we will never go back on it." That is the sort of thing one hears said. The tourist trade means a lot in connection with this exchange program. When tourists ride over tfed roads they gain certain impressions. They do not say, "Oh, well, I suppose we will have to stand it; Canada is in dire need of American dollars to buy our machinery." They . do not say that. Rather, they say, "Well, if that is the kind of stuff we get when we come to Canada, never again." The result is that, even if we do repair our roads, they have memories.
We have some wonderful tourist attractions in Canada. I am not pitting the east against the west, because this eastern country is very beautiful indeed. But the mountainous regions of Alberta and British Columbia cannot be surpassed anywhere. This is the time when United States tourists are going to take trips, and whether they take them in Canada will depend upon the conditions of our highways.
Foreign Exchange Conservation

We cannot build highways without machinery. Therefore I raise my voice against this item. We may be in need of United States dollars, but let us not plunge ourselves so far into the austerity program that, in the process, we lose out. That is a possibility. I have raised my voice in protest, and I suggest that we are not so hard up for United States dollars that we have to be stingy in this instance.


Mr. BENTLEY:: May I follow the hon. member for Macleod by saying that I agree with much of what he has said. However, I cannot imagine that the minister has failed to give some consideration to the tourist business. We have heard a great deal about what the tourist trade means to Canada in terms of United States dollars. How does the minister decide what is the best thing to do? Is he to permit the importation of road machinery so as to make our roads attractive to tourists, in order to get their dollars, or is he to prevent the machinery from coming in and thereby save the United States dollars required to buy the machinery? Can he tell us which position he takes?


Clarence Decatur Howe: We have given this matter the closest consideration. We know what machinery' there is in the country and how much work there is to do. For example, the city engineer of Winnipeg came here and asked for a permit for $40,000 to buy equipment. By a little checking we found that all he needed to import was machinery to a value of $1,300, and that the rest of it was available in his own city of Winnipeg. He agreed; and thereby, through that little transaction, we were saved $38,000 in exchange.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 422b. Trench and ditch excavating machines, round wheel or vertical or ladder boom, chain and bucket type, for digging vertical or sloping bank ditches; complete parts thereof for production use.
Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: What is the value of the imports on this item?


Clarence Decatur Howe: It is $309,000.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: What is behind this particular item?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Trench and ditch digging
machinery, and parts.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 424. Fire engines and other fire extinguishing machines and chassis for same; complete parts of the foregoing for production use other than chassis parts.
Edmund Davie Fulton: Are fire engines made in any substantial quantity in Canada?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes; two companies manufacture them, Bickle-Seagrave is one and La France is the other.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Do they use United States parts?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


Edmund Davie Fulton: For reasons somewhat similar to those expressed by the hon. member for Macleod, I question the wisdom of this item. Many of our municipalities have permitted their equipment to become obsolete during the war, and at this time they wish to bring it up to date.
It seems to me that we are putting our property in danger if we restrict the importation not only of the engines but of all parts. I wonder if the minister has failed to be impressed by the number of fires we have had.
Mr. HOWE; It has been stated over and over again that replacement parts can come in freely. Fire fighting equipment is made in England, and we would like to divert some of this business to that country.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Would a permit be necessary to bring in replacement parts?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No; replacement parts do not require a permit, except for the automobile industry.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Item ex 425 agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 42-7. All machinery composed wholly or in part of iron or steel, n.o.p., valued at over $200 per unit; complete parts thereof for production use.
Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: This seems to be a sort of blanket item which covers the waterfront. What were the imports last year and how much shall we save? We might as well have the same information with regard to 427a, because it seems also to cover the waterfront.


Clarence Decatur Howe: This is the basket item covering machinery. Total imports last year were about $113 million. It is broken down into various items which will be brought in piecemeal as we are able to work out the administration. We expect a substantial saving in connection with this item.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: Does the $113 million cover items 427 and 427a?


Clarence Decatur Howe: That includes 427 and 427a. I have that broken down if my hon. friend is interested.

Foreign Exchange Conservation


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Could you put it on Hansard?


Clarence Decatur Howe: It is not in a form suitable for tabling.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: Give us the larger items.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Some of the items are:
Power dairy machinery	 $1,371,000
Air compressor machinery and
parts	 3,122,000
Bakery machinery and parts ..	2,150,000
Cranes, hoists, n.o.p., and parts	5,473,000
Refrigerating machinery and
parts	 4,325,000
Oil drilling machinery and
paTts	 4,098,000
Grinding machinery and parts..	2,747,000
Mill working lathes and parts..	4,061,000
All items are about that size.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Would that include bread wrapping machines?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I imagine they would come under the bakery items.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Would you likely give a permit for a bread wrapping machine?


Clarence Decatur Howe: We might.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Items ex 427a, 427e, ex 427f agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 427h. Motion picture projectors for use with film one and one-eighth of an inch in width or over; electric rectifiers or generators designed for use with such motion picture projectors; arc lamps for motion picture work, motion picture or theatrical spot lights, light effect machines, not to include electric light bulbs, tubes or exciter lamps; complete parts for production use of motion picture projectors, arc lamps for motion picture work, motion picture or theatrical spot lights, light effect machines, motion picture screens, portable motion picture projectors with or without sound equipment, and electric rectifiers or generators designed for use with motion picture projectors.
James MacKerras Macdonnell: I should like the figures on this item.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Imports last year were
81,475,000,	and we expect to reduce that substantially.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 428. Traction engines, n.o.p.; complete parts thereof for production use.
James MacKerras Macdonnell: May we have the figures on this item?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Imports last year were
$688,000. These parts are brought in for the manufacture of traction engines here.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Item ex 428c agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 428e. Diesel and semidiesel engines, n.o.p.; complete parts thereof for production use.
Mr. MactNICOL: Before the war, diesel engines were scarce in Canada and they were not much more plentiful in the United States, but during the war our American cousins got into the production of these engines. The diesel engine is the greatest advance there has been in power development. It is the cheapest engine to operate and its use is bound to increase greatly as the years go by. Are they being made complete anywhere in Canada?
Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes. A line of small diesel engine is being made complete in Vancouver. Diesels are also manufactured by Dominion Engineering in Montreal. Canadian Vickers make diesel engines for ships and I think there are one or two other manufacturers.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Items ex 428f, 434, ex 434a and 434b agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 435. Locomotive and motor cars for railways, of a class or kind not made in Canada, for use exclusively in mining, metallurgical or sawmill operations; complete parts thereof for production use; diesel switching locomotives of a class or kind not made in Canada.
Lawrence Wilton Skey: Is it proposed to substitute Canadian engines?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes, that is the idea.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to. .
Customs tariff-ex. 438. Railway cars, n.o.p.; parts thereof for production use.
James MacKerras Macdonnell: Could we have the figures on this item?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Imports were $1,424,000.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-438a. Automobiles and motor vehicles of all kinds, n.o.p., electric trackless trolleybuses; chassis for all the foregoing.
Mr. WEBB:: While the minister's statement this afternoon cleared up a few questions I had in mind, there are still a few which are unanswered. On page 1161 of Hansard the minister is reported as follows:
As far as manufacturing firms are concerned, the purpose is to encourage the use of Canadian facilities to the maximum extent.
Of course we all agree with that. The minister went on to say:
The arrangement with the automobile industry has been published.
Until the minister spoke this afternoon, I was wondering about what arrangement.

Foreign Exchange Conservation
had been made. It was my impression that there had not been a great deal of consultation with the automobile manufacturers. I understand from the minister's statement this afternoon that the matter was discussed and a fairly satisfactory arrangement arrived at.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes. There were many meetings with all parts of the industry, manufacturers, dealers, and importers of parts.


George Robert Webb: Has this been taken up with the dealers and are they pretty well satisfied with the arrangement?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I do not know that they are satisfied, but they agreed that the arrangement was reasonable as between the various dealers.


George Robert Webb: I am informed that the production of automobiles in Canada has not increased. I happen to know personally that they are harder to get than before. We are not going to import automobiles, and I am not arguing for that; but will the result of these restrictions be to increase the construction of cars that have already been on the production lines by the motorcar industry in Canada? Is there a possibility of there being an increase in cars for dealers throughout Canada this year?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The new formula becomes effective on the first day of March. My hon. friend said he has not noticed any increase in the number of cars, nor have I, because the industry around Windsor has been closed down for two or three weeks, but it is anticipated that there will be more automobiles manufactured in 1948 than in 1947.


George Robert Webb: Is there a possibility that some of the makes of cars which were imported will be manufactured in Canada this year? Have any steps been taken to encourage that?


Clarence Decatur Howe: If any company had indicated before September last that they were interested in manufacturing in Canada, that company would be permitted and perhaps encouraged to do so. The purpose of the legislation, as I have said several times, is not to start industries in Canada to manufacture items the importation of which is restricted or prohibited by legislation. There is no desire on the part of the administration to encourage people to start who have never manufactured in Canada and have shown no desire to do so, but those who have been manufacturing here can choose between manufacturing more cars in Canada or bringing in cars. I think they will prefer to manufacture more cars in Canada and do without imports. Firms that

have not indicated any intention of manufacturing in Canada are allowed a certain proportion of imports.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-438b. Bearings, clutch release; bearings, graphite; bearings, steel or bronze backed, with non-ferrous metal lining; bushings, graphited or oil impregnated; ceramic insulator spark plug cores, not further manufactured than burned and glazed, printed or decorated or not, without fittingsj compressors, air; commutator copper segments; commutator insulating end rings; tapered discs of hot rolled steel, with or without centre hole, for disc wheels; distributor rotors and cam assemblies; door bumper shoes; electric wiring terminals, sockets, fittings and connectors and parts thereof, not to include battery terminals; gaskets of any material except cork or felt, composite or not; ignition contact points; keys for shafting; auxiliary driving control kits, designed for attachment to motor vehicles to facilitate their operation by physically disabled persons, and parts thereof; lenses of glass for head, tail, dome, signal and cowl or parking lamps, and for light reflectors; lock washers; piston ring castings in the rough, with or without gates and fins removed: rails of lock seam section, corners, locks and catches, unplated ventilators and parts thereof, the foregoing being of metal other than aluminium, for the manufacture of window sashes fqr bus bodies; steel bolts, or studs, capped with stainless steel: switches for lamps, heaters and defrosters and parts thereof; vacuum control assemblies; vulcanized fibre in sheets, rods, strips and tubing; all of the foregoing when of a class or kind not made in Canada and for use in the manufacture or the repair of the goods enumerated in tariff items 424 and 438a, or for use in the manufacture of parts therefor.
Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: This item covers a very large field. What were our imports in United States dollars in 1947? AVould the minister take the committee into his confidence and tell us what took place between him and the parts industry relative to the manufacture of these parts in Canada? It is clear that no industry will take on the manufacturing of parts unless they have some prospect of continuing in the business. How long does the minister expect this will last-five years or ten years, or what length of time?


Clarence Decatur Howe: It does not matter whether it goes on for six months or six years. We do not encourage anyone to make anything that depends on the operation of this act. I have told that twelve times. Can that be the last?


Edmund Davie Fulton: The minister told us this afternoon that he had been glad to see an industry start making shock absorbers in Canada. I do not see how he can differentiate between an industry of that type which he says can survive when the restrictions are removed, and any other industry. How does he decide?

Foreign Exchange Conservation


Clarence Decatur Howe: The difference is just this. The manufacture of shock absorbers is an industry that can survive whether this legislation lasts for six months or six years or sixty years. There are other parts manufacturers in the same position. If they are not in that position we do not encourage them to start. Let us not argue that.


Edmund Davie Fulton: I am here to satisfy myself as to the merits and demerits of this proposal. If I do not happen to see things the way the minister does I aj^preciate that he regrets that, but I am not going to have him tell me not to argue. But how does he decide whether an industry can survive or whether it is one that cannot survive without this legislation. That is what I want to know.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I can tell that from the willingness of the automobile industry to do business with them. That is the best test 1 know.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: What were the imports
from the United States in 1947?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I put all those figures on Hansard the other day and made another statement today. Total importations of the manufacturing industry run to about $70,000,000.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Cannot this item be
broken down?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The parts amounted to
$108,000,000 of importations.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: So that we may have a little idea of how the constructive end of the program is getting on, is there duty on shock absorbers going into the United States? I presume that is where the hard currency market is. Will the minister say a few' words about these parts in general? If we in Canada are to compete with United States home producers we must have quantity production. I think the minister will agree that it is pretty much a question of mass production, and a reasonable tariff wall to get over. Take as a concrete example the shock-absorber industry. Can the United States industry not meet the domestic demands of the market there and the export demands from the United States shores? How is it that in that particular example which the minister gave we have succeeded in getting over the United States tariff wall and getting our costs down low enough to compete with United States mass production? How is it that United States producers have not got after their government to raise the tariff so that they will have less unemployment at home? Will the minister
give a brief review of that situation, because we are naturally as much interested in the constructive end of this program as he is.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The review will be very brief. Up to the present time shock absorbers have been imported from the United States. An industry has now been established w'hich will supply some of the domestic Canadian demand for shock absorbers.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: It is not going to the United States at all.


Clarence Decatur Howe: No.
Item agreed: to.
Items 438c, 438d and 438e agreed to.
Customs tariff-438f. Hot rolled strip of iron or steel with rolled or mill edge, of -a class or kind not made in Canada, when imported for use in the importer's own factory, in the manufacture of the goods enumerated in tariff items 424 and 438a, or in the manufacture of parts therefor.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: Will the minister explain this item which has to do with hot rolled strip of iron or steel with rolled or mill edge, of a class or kind not made in Canada.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Hot rolled strip for motor vehicles was imported to the amount of $959,000. At the moment there is nothing we can do about it. We require that. Within the next seven or eight months we shall be producing hot rolled strip in Canada and we shall certainly reduce the item, and perhaps eliminate the import.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: We cannot do anything about it in the meantime?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 438g. Motor cycles or sidecars therefor; complete parts of the foregoing for production use.
Edmund Davie Fulton: What was the amount of dollar imports of this item last year?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The amount was $1,623,000. It is hoped that by putting this item under permit we can divert the import, which is practically all from the United States at the moment, to the United Kingdom.


Edmund Davie Fulton: The amount of $1,623,000 represents imports from the United States alone?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes, and in all the figures I am giving.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Or is it the total from all these countries?
Foreign Exchange Conservation


Clarence Decatur Howe: Just the United States.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Items 438h, 438i, ex 439b, ex 440, ex 440a,
agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 4401. Aircraft, n.o.p.; complete parts thereof for production use, not including engines, under regulations prescribed by the minister.
Harry Rutherford Jackman: In connection with an item such as 4401, aeroplanes and motorcycles, which are included in the item we just passed, is it the intention of the minister to allow these goods in from the United Kingdom and to put a complete ban on them from the United States? Is that within the terms of the government's policy at the present time?


Clarence Decatur Howe: As far as aircraft are concerned, new aircraft are imported from the United States, provided that suitable aircraft of Canadian manufacture will not fill the requirements.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: I was referring to the
general principle.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Canada makes aircraft of certain categories for certain purposes, and we shall try to persuade the buyer to buy a Canadian aircraft; but if there is not a Canadian aircraft suitable we will permit the import.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: I want to get the general principle. Will the minister allow the importation of aircraft and motor cycles from the United Kingdom without stint-because that would be a'very good thing to do-and at the same time put a complete embargo against similar goods from the United States?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No, I did not say that.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: I am asking.


Clarence Decatur Howe: It is the famous discretion to which reference has been made so often.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Under schedules I and II we have a formula worked out under which we have certain specific quotas. They were worked out in favour of soft currency countries. Here there are no formulas. We know it is entirely within the minister's discretion; if he chooses he can put an embargo against these products from the United States.


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is right.


Lawrence Wilton Skey: Will the minister permit
replacement of equipment now in operation if it is of United States design and a Canadian substitute cannot be found?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Does the hon. member mean spare parts?


Lawrence Wilton Skey: No, complete.


Clarence Decatur Howe: New aircraft? I might, yes. Aircraft are in a class by themselves. You cannot classify aircraft as you can sewing machines, which is a separate problem. If the aircraft were required for a purpose that the Canadian-built aircraft or the English-built aircraft could not do equally well for we would allow the import from the United States. It is very hard, as my hon. friend will appreciate, to lay down a general classification. For example, there is a photographic plane that is in a class by itself. There may be one made in the United States and not made in Canada or England. It might be a plane used for prospecting here. Two or three of these have been imported. They are made only in the United States. That special equipment is a problem by itself, and each item must be looked at in that light.


Lawrence Wilton Skey: Everyone who wishes to buy a United States aircraft must apply to the minister?


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is right.


Lawrence Wilton Skey: For a permit?


Harry Rutherford Jackman: May I ask the minister why there is this distinction between the items in schedules I and II whereby we work under a strict formula as to how much we shall allow in from the United States and how much we shall allow in from the United Kingdom and the items in schedule III where we have no formula worked out? There is nothing which predetermines the amount which will be allowed in. It is completely in the minister's discretion. What concerns me is this. If the United States exporters are not put out that so much discretion is being given to the minister under schedule III whereby materials may be banned entirely, why should they be put out with similar treatment of consumer goods in schedules I and II which are under these formulas? Why cannot we exclude United States goods entirely if the Minister of Trade and Commerce or the Minister of Finance sees fit? As I see it, there are two different principles operating under schedules I and II in the one case and under schedule III in the other.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Schedules I and II deal with consumer goods which can be treated on a percentage basis. Schedule III deals with capital goods which are not susceptible to that. The item we are discussing here is airplanes. Does my hon. friend think it is sensible to say that, because we spent perhaps

Foreign Exchange Conservation
$2,000,000 on airplanes last year, we shall cut it down to $1,000,000 this year? That would not be sensible, surely.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: There must be lots of these items that can be cut down.


Clarence Decatur Howe: They could, but it would not be sensible. It is either a desirable investment or it is not. I do not think you can do it on a percentage basis.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: I am asking only for information.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I am giving the facts. Take steel. Surely you would not say that, because we imported $100,000,000 worth of steel last year, we should make it $50,000,000 this year, or any item of a capital investment nature. It depends on so many factors. If you did it on that basis you might defeat the objective you were trying to achieve.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Customs tariff-440m ex (i) Unfinished parts of aircraft, n.o.p., for production use, not including parts for production of aircraft engines.
(ii) Direct or inertia starters with or without related operating gear and parts thereof; generators; voltage control boxes; batteries; de-icing and anti-icing equipment and parts thereof, not including parts of rubber; vacuum pumps with related operating gear and parts thereof; landing and navigation lights; propellers; hydraulic jacks and pumps and parts thereof; aircraft wheels; aircraft brakes with related operating gear; aircraft tires and tubes; oil coolers; fuel pressure warning devices; exhaust gas analysers; pressure fire extinguishers: primer pumps; instruments excepting fuel coil-, tents gauges; bolts, nuts, cocks, turnbuckles, clevis and pins, swaged wires and tie rods; bars, tubes, extrusions and forgings of aluminium, aluminium alloys and magnesium alloys; steel tubing; all of the foregoing when of types and sizes not made in Canada and imported by manufacturers of aircraft for use exclusively in the manufacture in their own factories of the goods enumerated in tariff item 4401, under such regulations as the minister may prescribe.
440n. Engines, when imported for use only in the equipment of aircraft.
440o ex (ii) Parts, finished or not, n.o.p., for the production of aircraft engines.
ex 440p. Direct or inertia starters with or without related operating gear and parts thereof; generators: voltage control boxes; batteries; de-icing and anti-icing equipment and parts thereof, not including parts of rubber: vacuum pumps with related operating gear and parts thereof; landing and navigation lights: propellers; hydraulic jacks and pumps and partR thereof; aircraft wheels; aircraft brakes with related operating gear and parts thereof; aircraft tires and tubes: oil coolers: fuel pressure warning devices: exhaust gas analysers; pressure fire extinguishers; primer pumps; instruments excepting fuel contents gauges; bolts, nuts, cocks, turnbuckles, clevis and pins, swaged wires and tie rods; bars, tubes, extrusions and forgings of aluminum, aluminum alloys and magnesium alloys; steel tubing; all the foregoing
when of types and sizes not made in Canada and imported for use exclusively in the manufacture of the goods enumerated in tariff item 4401 under such regulations as the minister may prescribe.
Lawrence Wilton Skey: These four items deal with essentially the same problem. For a moment I should like to speak to the whole group by calling your attention, Mr. Chairman, to the fact that any United States aircraft operated in Canada at the present time must have replacement parts for the engines or equipment that are peculiar to it, to keep it flying. Therefore, going one step farther, since over 90 per cent of the aircraft in Canada is of a commercial or industrial type, I mean, being used as a public carrier or for transportation purposes, we are including all these items unnecessarily. In other words, we shall have the Department of Trade and Commerce making out hundred of thousands of permits for small minor items in order to penalize perhaps less than ten percent of the private owners-


Clarence Decatur Howe: Replacement parts do not require permits. I have said that at least twelve times tonight.


Edmund Davie Fulton: What additional requirement is contemplated which makes it necessary to put "under such regulations as the minister may prescribe" in this item, when there are so many other items on the schedule?


Clarence Decatur Howe: It is the wording in the tariff item.


Edmund Davie Fulton: The minister is not contemplating a different type of regulation for the aircraft industry?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No.
Items 440m ex, 440n, 440o ex and ex 440p agreed to.
Item ex 442d agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 443. Parts for the production of apparatus designed for cooking or for heating buildings:	(1) for coal or wood;
(2) for gas; (3) for electricity; (4) for oil; (5) n.o.p.


John Ritchie MacNicol: I just want some assurance with regard to the manufacturers of unit heaters for the heating of buildings, the two largest manufacturers in Canada being in my riding who now manufacture almost totally in Canada their heating equipment but import some small parts from their parent organizations in the United States. What I want to be assured of is that they will still be permitted, either by licence or by quota, to import all the small parts they require to build their equipment. Each one of them
Foreign Exchange Conservation

employs a large number of men and'has an excellent plant.	-


Mr.   IIOWE@: If they imported last year, they will be permitted to import this year. My hon. friend will not object if we put a little pressure on to have some of these parts made in Canada.


John Ritchie MacNicol: They are anxious to do that. Furthermore, they both feel satisfied that if the minister is able to carry out the program he announced of persuading the United States government to permit shipment into the United States of equipment made by large United States branch plants in this country-that is, the large plants of United States companies that make identically the same material-they will be delighted to ship back to the United States again.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Good.


John Ritchie MacNicol: May I ask the minister if he has done anything along that line? He made that announcement, according to the paper, and these large plants are anxious and willing to assist, inasmuch as they make identically the same material.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Nothing can be done about tariffs either way. Material manufactured in the United States and brought into Canada will have to pay our tariff, and material manufactured in Canada and going to the United States will have to pay the United States tariff. That is the hurdle they will have to take.


John Ritchie MacNicol: I had so interpreted what the minister said at some meeting or the announcement which he made. I was quite in accord with it. Under the circumstances and owing to the state which the whole world is in and particularly because of the position of the Canadian dollar on account of the colossal price we paid in the great war-we were in the war two years before our United States cousins-I interpreted it to mean that perhaps they would be friendly and assist us to recover ourselves to the extent that they would allow the same material made by their branch plants in Canada to be shipped back into the United States market on some reasonable terms. I had hoped, from what the minister said, that this would be the result.


Clarence Decatur Howe: As soon as the present agreements are out of the way-that is, the GeneVia agreements-it is the intention of the government to approach the United States government to see whether a bilateral agreement can be worked out along the lines suggested by my hon. friend.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Item ex 443a agreed to.

Customs tariff-ex 445. Complete parts of electric light fixtures and appliances, n.o.p., for production use.
Customs tariff-ex 445d. Complete parts of electric wireless or radio apparatus, n.o.p., for production use.
Edmund Davie Fulton: Can the minister give us figures on these electrical items?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes; electric light fixtures n.o.p., tariff item 445, S4,522,000; radio tubes, $1,750,000; radio apparatus, n.o.p., $6,486,000 or a total of $8,236,000 for the whole tariff item 445d.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Am I correct in my recollection? I seem to recall that the minister made a statement, or that a statement was issued on his behalf, shortly after this program was first discussed, to the effect that the electrical manufacturing industry in Canada was one of those in which it was felt that substantial exports to the United States could be achieved. That is in my mind, but I have not been able to locate the statement. Was such a statement made?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I was mentioning examples of proposals put forward by industries, and I mentioned the electrical industries and the progress they were making in that direction. They have found certain items which they could ship to the United States over the tariff barriers, and still do so profitably, and have arranged with the parent company to do so.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Is the minister in a position to give us any report on the progress made along that line?


Clarence Decatur Howe: We have not worked out a final formula with the electrical industry. It is an extremely complicated subject, as my hon. friend will appreciate. We are going at it just as we did with the automobile industry and we shall have a similar formula, with export incentive. But that formula is not yet completely worked out. We are also working on the radio industry, where improvement can be made. I think it is about a fifty-five per cent Canadian content industry. We hope to do a great deal on that.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: The minister mentioned the electrical industry as one in which we might be able to manufacture some parts in Canada and send them across the line. I am asking only for information because I do not know the facts; therefore I have no opinion, so please do not credit me with having one beforehand. Has the minister developed, on the positive side of his program, a real example where we in Canada are now to

Foreign Exchange Conservation
manufacture an article for use in the United States where the parent company resides and has a mass market at its disposal, and where there is a tariff barrier to hurdle? I am asking only for an actual instance. How about typewriters?


Clarence Decatur Howe: An example is a fountain pen manufacturer who has made Canada the base for the sole manufacture of two types of pens for sale in the United States and all1 parts of the world. That is one example.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: The parent company is in the United States?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The parent company is in the United States, but the Canadian branch manufacture two types of pen exclusively. . We have a typewriter company which some time ago put up to us the proposal to manufacture typewriters for shipment into the United States. We have a number of companies that have put up to us proposals to manufacture certain articles in Canada for shipment to the United States. I do not think I should state who they are here; this is not the place. But there is a great deal done in that direction and more is in prospect.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: It looks as if it will work and perhaps be of some substantial assistance?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.
Items ex 445 and ex 445dl agreed to.
Items ex 445f, ex 445g, ex 445i, ex 445j, ex 445k, ex 445o, ex 445p and 445q agreed to.
Customs tariff-ex 446. Electric steam turbo generator sets, TOO h.p. and greater, of a class or kind not made in Canada; complete parts thereof for production use.


John Ritchie MacNicol: This is another line of equipment, the use of which will continue to grow rapidly, particularly so now that there is such a shortage of electricity in Canada and further because of the apparent reduction in the flow of water in some of the streams on which electricity is now produced. Electric steam turbo generators are made in Canada, are they not? They are sold here anyway. I know quite a number of electric power plants that use them.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes, they are made in Canada. Someone may want to know what the saving will be. May I say that I think we shall save on this, because I do not think anyone can put in an electric steam generator under present conditions of power shortage.


John Ritchie MacNicol: That is one of the
reasons why they would likely be used. In many parts of Canada-and I will not mention any of them just now; later on, on another occasion I intend to say a great deal on this subject-it wild be imperative that plants be equipped for the production of cheap electricity in large quantities. We hear some hon. members say, "Oh, industry must be decentralized", and all such talk as that. That is wholly impossible unless power is available. There will be no decentralization of industry unless anyone wants to go into manufacturing can obtain cheap power in abundance.


Clarence Decatur Howe: If my hon. friend would
explain that to the Ontario Hydro Electric Commission, he would do more to accelerate this program of ours than anything else that could be done.


John Ritchie MacNicol: Well if I may digress for a moment the Ontario Hydro Electric Commission is doing the best job it can. I do not intend to enter into the controversy that is going on in Toronto at the present time, but the minister knows as well as I do why they are short of power in Ontario today. The contracts made some years ago, which I knew a good deal about at the time, were cancelled by a previous government, and we were never able to have them restored. As the minister well knows, however, the Ontario Hydro Electric Commission will be turning into the wires, within a year's time, more or less, perhaps an additional million and a half horsepower of electricity. I am sorry the minister interjected that, because I do not like talking politics. I like to talk sincerely and earnestly. Now I carry on from where I left off. This seems a very small turbo generator, 700 horsepower. I did not think we used any that small in Ontario. We are using turbo generators in Canada of up to several thousand horsepower, and will be requiring much larger ones and many of them.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I think my hon. friend misunderstands the nature of these generators. I believe these generators are used where electricity is cheaper than coal. They are used for surplus electricity. During pre-war years in certain areas, particularly in the Saguenay, there was surplus electricity which was sold below the price of coal. Certain electric steam generators were put in at that time. They are all out now, naturally, because there is a shortage of electric power, and you would never use electric power for generating steam if you had another use for it.


John Ritchie MacNicol: No, not for generating steam.


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is what these are.
Foreign Exchange Conservation


John Ritchie MacNicol: For generating electricity. The steam is produced in boilers, up to seven or nine hundred degrees Fahrenheit; and the steam pressure of several hundred pounds which passes through the turbo generators is for the production of electricity. If this is not the same equipment with which I am familiar, then I do not know just what it is. Does the minister say it is not used for the production of electricity?


Clarence Decatur Howe: My hon. friend has in mind turbo generators.


John Ritchie MacNicol: I know what a turbo generator is.


Clarence Decatur Howe: We will put it this way. We are putting this item under permit so that we can control the use. If it is a good use we will grant a permit; if it is not an essential use we will not. That is about the size of it. If some of these plants have to come in to supplement hydro electric, then certainly we will grant permits for the turbo generators, il they are what you think they are. I think it is the reverse, that they generate steam from electricity; but whichever it is, if it is a good use and it is required, we will admit it.


John Ritchie MacNicol: All these high pressure plants today burn powdered coal fired into boilers carrying a high pressure of steam at a very high Fahrenheit. Those of the type I am talking about are something into which I made an exhaustive investigation last fall, which involved a terrific amount of travel. I wanted to learn all I could about these plants, and I travelled over a large part of America, covering many thousands of miles. I investigated many of these plants to see how cheaply they were producing electricity by the use of powdered coal in the sort of boilers I have mentioned; and I know they used turbo generators because I saw that name on their side. I believe we have many of them here in Canada; and, as I said before, if this is the same type of equipment I have in mind I predict it will not be long before many large power houses will be equipped with high pressure powdered coal fired boilers and turbo generators. That is the only way they can do it. I am all for bringing them in if they are not made here; I am not opposing the item at all. I was only hoping this had to do with what I have in mind, and what on another occasion I shall advocate as strongly as possible.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.

Customs tariff-ex 446a. Manufactures^ articles or wares, of iron or steel or of which iron or steel or both are the component materials of chief value, n.o.p., of a total invoice value in excess of $200.
Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: This seems to be another of what I think the minister called the basket items. I wish he would explain this to us, because it seems lo me somewhat the same language as we saw before.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes, this is a big item, amounting to $40,668,000. It includes forgings, castings for railway vehicles, roller chains, hardware n.o.p., locks, bicycle parts, frames for bicycles, drums, barrels and tanks, valves, iron and steel n.o.p., manufactures of iron and steel n.o.p., radiators of cast iron, parts for the * manufacture of shuttles, hinges for jewelry boxes and so on. This is a basket item of the kind that offers considerable savings under a permit system.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: I understand that we now manufacture a great many of those products in Canada?


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is right.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: And we would manufacture more if we had more steel and iron. What does the minister propose to do? We need the articles; does he propose to cut off the steel and iron?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I thought we had that discussion out. I told my hon. friend that we did not expect to save anything in iron and steel.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: This would include cut nails and wire nails coming from the United States, would it?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Nails are included in this item, are they not?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Why not?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Because they are not in the-item. There is a specific item covering nails. They are not in this list, and they are not prohibited.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: We are short of them, and I wanted to make sure.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Items ex 446g, 447a, 447b, 459, 461 and 461a
agreed to.

Foreign Exchange Conservation
Customs tariff-ex 462b. Cinematograph and -motion picture cameras, 35 mm., for use by professional motion picture producers having studios in Canada equipped for motion picture production; parts of the foregoing for production use.
Edmund Davie Fulton: Before we come to the last item, would the minister be kind enough to tell us if there is any substantial import .figure he has not yet given us or which we have not stopped and asked him for. Would die have a quick look over the schedule to see?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I think I have named the big items.


Edmund Davie Fulton: I mean the main ones.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes. I do not see any here that were not discussed. The basket items are the big ones. A number of the others run to four or five million dollars.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Would the minister give the figure for item ex 446a? I am sorry; I *did not catch it.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I gave the figure; $40,688,000.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: Will the minister now give an over-all figure, without any particular detail, just stating what he thinks may be a reasonable objective for a total saving?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Well, as I have stated, it depends wholly upon the increase in exports. If we are able to increase exports the saving will be less. We have increased exports; we have a drive on with that objective, but it is difficult to take the one without having regard to the other.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I should have thought this division could have been made; it is what I am interested in, and I think it is important. I should have thought the minister could say how much he thinks we might make without exports, and then how much additional he thinks we might reasonably expect if we could increase exports. Is that a possible figure to give.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Calculations could be made on a sliding scale. But it is very hard to pick a figure out of the air. As I said, the first estimate of the saving from this program was $100,000,000. I think it will be more than that. I think $150,000,000 would be a reasonable figure, and that would allow for a considerable increase in exports. On the other hand, my hon. friend realizes that, as exports increase, the possibility of savings on imports drops.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: How much net do you want?


Mr. PROBE:: Just buying a pig in a poke.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Just put it down that we do not know; that is the simplest way.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
Item 657a agreed to.
Schedules I, II and III as amended agreed to.
William Henry Golding: Shall the title carry?


Harry Rutherford Jackman: May I ask the combined ministers if they would care to give an expression of opinion as to how much they would consider reasonable the righting of our exchange position before we can get away from these conservation restrictions which will undoubtedly interfere a great deal with Canadian business?


John Lambert Gibson: A good question.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I suppose we cannot both answer in chorus. I would not care to put a figure on it. The time at which we shall be able to relax and ultimately do away with restrictive measures, part of which are covered by this, will depend upon the time when our reserves are restored to a more reasonable and proper position. But when that will be I do not know. I have hopes, but I do not know that it is particularly useful or desirable that I should voice them here.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Would you like to name a sum?


Douglas Charles Abbott: No, I will not name a sum either. Our reserves today are lower than they should be and much lower than I would like to see them. Until they are restored to a more reasonable figure, and until we are convinced that there is a reasonable prospect of their continuing at that figure, I think we shall have to contemplate the continuance of some measure such as this.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: How many permits has the minister issued so far under this? It has been in operation since November 18. You have issued permits, or told people to give them.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Exactly no permits. I had no authority to issue them.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Somebody has issued them.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Perhaps the Minister of
Finance has; I have not.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Ministerial letters.
Excise Tax Act Amendment


Gordon Knapman Fraser: They are ministerial letters which have been sent out.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The Minister of Finance tells me that he has issued a few in the automobile-


Douglas Charles Abbott: No, I have not issued them.


Clarence Decatur Howe: A few have been issued, I will put it that way, in the automobile schedule, but not over my name, because I have no authority. Now that the opposition has become more reasonable, I can start in a few days.


Harold Aberdeen Watson Timmins: The minister cannot get away with that. There are those under appendix IX of P.C. 4678; none of them has been issued. One of the ministers has authority. but they have not seen fit to use that discretion.


[Stage Direction]
Title agreed to.
Bill reported.
James Horace King: When shall the bill be read a third time?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Next sitting.



WAYS AND MEANS


[Stage Direction]
The house in committee of ways and means, Mr. Golding in the chair.
That it is expedient to introduce a measure to amend the Excise Tax Act and to provide:
1.	That on and after November 18, 1947, there shall be imposed, levied and collected an excise tax of twenty-five per cent (25%) on the following goods imported into or manufactured or produced in Canada: (a) the following electrical appliances, grills, waffle irons; hot plates; roasters; kettles; chafing dishes; food or drink mixers; juice extractors; coffee makers; toasters of all kinds; portable humidifiers; curling irons or tongs; hair dryers; permanent waving machines and spacers or clamps; rods and heaters therefor; razors and shavers; food choppers and grinders; irons and ironers; vacuum cleaners and attachments thereof; garbage disposal units; floor waxers and polishers; (b) electric or gas refrigerators or freezing equipment, and coils, condensing or compressor units, cabinets, boxes, evaporators and expansion valves therefor; air conditioning cooling or filtering equipment, and complete parts thereof: oil burners and oil burning equipment; all the foregoing when adapted to household or apartment use or when for use in places of entertainment, amusement or recreation, including rinks, audi-toria, halls and clubs; (c) articles and equipment designed for use in golf, tennis, badminton, squash, racquets, polo, billiards, pool, bowling and curling; fishing rods and reels; (d) firearms except for military or police purposes; (e) engines or motors for use in boats or vessels, except "'hen the boats or vessels are to be used exclusively in commercial or industrial enterprises; (f) outboard motors; (g) motorcycles, and all other two- or three-wheeled motor-driven vehicles including motors for attachment

to bicycles but not including vehicles designed for use by invalids; (h) musical instruments of all kinds, not including organs for churches; (i) projectors for slides, films or pictures designed for industrial or professional photographers' use; and (j) toilet articles of all kinds, including combs, mirrors and brushes except tooth brushes, not coming with any other item in schedule one of the said act.
2.	That on and after November 18, 1947, the rate of excise tax on automobiles adapted or adaptable for passenger use with seating capacity for not more than ten persons each, imported into or manufactured or produced in Canada be increased from ten per cent to the following rates, namely, on automobiles valued at $1,200 or less, 25 per cent over $1,200 but not more than $2,000, 25 per cent on $1,200 plus 50 per cent on the amount in excess of $1,200; over $2,000, 25 per cent on $1,200 plus 50 per cent on $800 plus 75 per cent on the amount in excess of $2,000.
3.	That on and after November 18, 1947, the rate of excise tax on phonographs, record-playing devices, radio broadcast receiving sets and tubes therefor, be increased from ten per cent to twenty-five per cent.
4.	That on and after November 18, 1947, the rate of excise tax on cameras, photographic films and plates, projectors for slides, films or pictures, except those designed exclusively for industrial or professional photographers' use, be increased from ten per cent to twenty-five per cent.
5.	That on and after November 18, 1947, electricity and gas used in dwellings be exempt from consumption or sales tax: and
6.	That on and after November 18, 1947, the excise tax of one per cent per pound on sugar, grape sugar, glucose, sugar syrup, corn syrup, etc., be repealed.
Douglas Charles Abbott: Mr. Chairman, before we proceed to discuss this resolution dealing with excise taxes I shall ask one of my colleagues to move an amendment which will affect a considerable number of items. As a matter of procedure, it might be helpful to the' committee if I now gave a general explanation of the changes, giving the main reasons for them. I shall then have available for distribution mimeographed copies of the resolution in its amended form.


William Henry Golding: I wonder if the minister could make available copies of the amendments, so that the leaders could see them.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am saying that as soon as I have completed my preliminary statement I shall have mimeographed copies available.


John Ritchie MacNicol: We shall have them tomorrow?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Yes. That will enable the committee more easily to see the results of the amendments which will be moved.
I have stated on previous occasions in connection with this tax program that I hope to be

Excise Tax Act Amendment
able to adapt it to the changing needs and circumstances of a situation to which I have been devoting the closest study, and to introduce relaxations or modifications from time to time where I felt that changes could be made without doing injury to our main purpose. I must say that in several cases, after discussing the matter fully with the representatives of an industry, and an exchange of views of mutual benefit, I have decided that, on balance, the tax should not be imposed.
An instance of the sort of consideration which has moved me to amend the application of the tax has been where there already exists an export flow of Canadian goods to the United States or where manufacturers have given assurance of such an export and this export of goods was jeopardized by the imposition of the excise tax. Such a situation can arise because of a procedure followed by the United States customs authorities in determining the dutiable value of an import into the United States for purposes of their tariff.
Under this procedure the amount of such a tax as our 25 per cent excise tax is added to the value otherwise subject to duty, with a consequent increase in the total duty payable. On balance, as a result of this procedure in several instances we stood to suffer a loss of exports to the United States, and it is for this reason that I am proposing that the tax be not imposed in the case, for example, of sporting goods, oil burners and oil burning equipment, hot plates and grills.
Another group of changes have the effect of limiting the tax to the household use of the articles concerned, where it was felt that the tax should not be applied to certain classes of capital equipment. Accordingly, the tax will have this more limited application in the case of food or drink mixers, food choppers or grinders, irons and ironers, vacuum cleaners, floor waxers and polishers.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Washing machines?


Douglas Charles Abbott: No, they are not in general industrial use, and never were. I am saying that the tax is being relaxed. We are limiting the tax, generally speaking, to the household use of the articles concerned; and1 where they are in the nature of capital goods, used in industrial enterprise, as part of the cost of production, the tax is not being imposed.
In other cases which were gone into carefully it was established to my satisfaction that undue hardship either to consumers or producers would have resulted from the tax, and for this reason I have decided not to ask the committee to impose a tax in these cases. It
was because of consideration of this sort that I have withdrawn my recommendation for a tax on musical instruments.
From the resolutions as amended, the committee will see that, although I have been willing to adjust the tax program where it seemed reasonable to do so, the main body of the program as I announced it on November 17 remains substantially intact. The tax will cover the important range of items such as automobiles, motor cycles, radios and phonographs, refrigerators, vacuum cleaners, outboard motors, firearms, miscellaneous electrical appliances, projectors, cameras and films and some toilet articles.
Just to have it in the proper form, I will ask one of my colleagues to move the amendment which will put into effect the changes which have been decided upon since I moved the resolution on December 19.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I move accordingly:
That the resolution to amend the Excise Tax Act now before the house be amended as follows:
1.	By deleting from paragraph (a) the following:	"grills:	hot plates; food or drink
mixers; food choppers and grinders; irons and ironers; vacuum cleaners and attachments therefor; floor waxers and polishers;"
2.	By inserting the following paragraph immediately -after paragraph (a) as paragraph
(b)	: "(b) The following electrical appliances when adapted to household use; food or drink mixers; food choppers and grinders; irons and ironers; vacuum cleaners and attachments therefor; floor waxers and polishers;"
3.	By relettering paragraph (b) as paragraph
(c)	and deleting therefrom the following: "air conditioning, cooling or filtering equipment, and complete parts, therefor; oil burners and oil burning equipment;"
4.	By deleting paragraph (c).
5.	By deleting paragraph (e) and relettering paragraph (f) as paragraph (e);
6.	By deleting paragraph (g) and substituting therefor the following:
"(f) motor cycles and all other two or three wheeled motor driven vehicles, including motors for attachment to bicycles, but not including vehicles specially designed for carrying goods or for use by invalids;"
7.	By deleting paragraph (h) and relettering paragraph (i) as paragraph (g);
8.	By deleting paragraph (j) and substituting therefor the following:
"(h) Toilet articles of all kinds (including combs, mirrors, and brushes other than tooth brushes or shaving brushes, the duty paid value or the Canadian manufacturer's selling price of which combs, mirrors and brushes is more than twenty-five cents each,) and which items do not already come within any other item in Schedule one of the said Act."


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am having distributed copies of what might be termed the consolidated resolution; that is, the resolution with the amendments which have been moved incorporated.
Excise Tax Act Amendment


Mr. THATCHER:: I should like to say a few words on this resolution. In effect, the minister is asking us this evening to approve an order in council which was passed on November 18 last. The effect of that order in council was to impose a 25 per cent tax on a long list of articles.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I am sure my hon. friend wants to be technically correct. There has been no order in council passed with respect to taxes.


Wilbert Ross Thatcher: It has been applied.


Douglas Charles Abbott: There has been a notice given that we intended to ask parliament to impose these taxes.


Stanley Howard Knowles: This government does not need orders in council any more.


Harry Rutherford Jackman: Government by notice.


Wilbert Ross Thatcher: This order in council has been applied.


Douglas Charles Abbott: No order in council at all.


Wilbert Ross Thatcher: It applies a tax of 25 per cent on a long list of articles like electric irons, washing machines, refrigerators, and things of that kind. May I say at the outset, that I feel this levy is unnecessary. I think it is an inflationary and vicious tax. Moreover, it has been introduced in an extremely arbitrary way, and in a manner which, in my opinion, is contrary to the laws of this country. For more than 700 years, since the time of King John and the Magna Carta, it has been a recognized principle in all British nations that only parliament can impose taxation on the people. One of the kings of England lost his head because he tried to deviate from that principle. It would seem that the Minister of Finance does not consider it necessary to follow the lessons of history. Apparently the Minister of Finance is trying to turn back the clock a few hundred years. On November 18 last he imposed by order in council, or he applied by a notice of some kind, a tax of 25 per cent on a long list of commodities.


Douglas Charles Abbott: No order in council; no taxes yet imposed.


Wilbert Ross Thatcher: Parliament was not in any way consulted about that tax. Parliament has not approved that tax even tonight. Yet the tax has been collected by the minister's officials for over two months. What is the significance of that? It means that executive government, as represented by the minister, by his officials, by his assistants, most of whom are not members of parliament, has imposed a tax on Canadians arbitrarily and autocratic-

ally. The minister is only asking parliament for approval two months after the tax went into effect.
I suggest that if this resolution goes through, perhaps a few years from now, the government will decide that it can put through taxes without even bothering to come to parliament for approval. Surely that is conceivable. If this resolution is passed, we shall have created a precedent, which will 'mean that, in the future, the government will be able to impose taxes and then, three months or six months' afterwards, come to parliament and say, "We have imposed these taxes; approve them." I think even members on the government side will object to that usurping of parliament's authority. I ask the hon. member for Comox-Alberni what he thinks of it.


John Lambert Gibson: I do object.


Wilbert Ross Thatcher: The hon. member has voted many times against the government. I hope he will make a statement as to whether he likes this usurping of parliament's powers.


John Lambert Gibson: I have not the eloquence of my hon. friend or I would.


Wilbert Ross Thatcher: W'hat has the minister to say about this taxation by order in council?


Douglas Charles Abbott: No order in council.


Wilbert Ross Thatcher: I should like to quote what he said, as reported on page 359 of Hansard of December 16, 1947:
I say I am not claiming the right to tax the Canadian people. It is nothing more than a notice that the tax will be imposed if parliament approves.
I wonder if the minister is trying to kid someone.


Douglas Charles Abbott: It is done every year when the budget is presented.


Wilbert Ross Thatcher: Notice his statement:
It is nothing more than a notice that the tax will be imposed if parliament approves,
I say that statement of the minister is not a correct one.


Douglas Charles Abbott: Absolutely correct.


Wilbert Ross Thatcher: Parliament at this
moment has not approved; yet these taxes have been collected for more than two months. Anyone who tries to purchase a washing machine or a refrigerator or one of the items affected will soon find out whether the amount of money involved is a "notice" or whether it is a "tax". Ask any housewife. The minister in his speech just claimed that the levy was

Excise Tax Act Amendment
only a "notice". However, a little later on, he decided that, after all, it might be a tax, because he said:
I shall ask parliament to make this tax retroactive.
The minister then proceeded to argue that the notice was a tax, but that, after all, there is nothing wrong with taxing by notice.


Douglas Charles Abbott: No order in council.


Wilbert Ross Thatcher: The minister says the tax was imposed as is dona when the budget resolutions are tabled. May I suggest that the way in whicn this excise tax was imposed is eompletly different from the way in which budget resolutions are brought down. When budget resolutions are involved the taxing authorities are notified the night the budget is brought down that the resolutions are before parliament and that the officials are to start collecting the tax. In the present case, the taxing officials were notified that the tax would be brought before parliament in the future, but they were instructed to collect the tax immediately. I ask the committee to note the difference. In the case of the budget, "the taxes are before parliament"; in the case of the excise tax, "the taxes will be brought before parliament", perhaps a month, perhaps three months, or perhaps a year from now. In the meantime collect the tax-those were the instructions given to the tax officials.
I suggest that the issue involved in the resolution before us tonight is clearcut:	Are
Canadians to be taxed by arbitrary order in council, or are they to be taxed by their democratically elected parliament? That is the issue, and I challenge any member of this house to say that is not the issue. I know that many members on the government side of the house were more surprised than members of the opposition when the minister brought down this excise tax. If they are still angry, let me suggest that the way to register their anger is by voting against this resolution.
What about the tax itself? In the first place, I would suggest that if ever there was an inflationary tax brought before this parliament, this is one. When parliament was called into emergency session less than three months ago, the members were told by the government that one of the main reasons for calling this emergency session was to cope with the problem of the rising cost of living. We were here only a few weeks when the price spreads committee was set up, to investigate why prices were going up and how we might bring them down. The committee was
given fairly wide powers, and it is today calling witnesses from all over Canada. I would suggest to the chairman of that committee, the Minister of National Health and Welfare, if he were here, that he is overlooking the star witness, the man who has contributed more than anyone else to high prices in Canada-the Minister of Finance.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Hear, hear.


John Oliver Probe: Off with his head.


Wilbert Ross Thatcher: For a year or two I have listened to the Minister of Finance telling Canadian businesses that they must keep prices down. He preaches one thing, but in actual practice he does precisely the opposite. He adopts a policy which forces prices up. I challenge the price spreads committee to subpoena the Minister of Finance. Let him try to justify before that committee the recent price increases in washing machines, refrigerators and other electric appliances. Let him explain the adverse effect which this tax is having on the cost of living. In taxing these necessities of life 25 per cent, the minister is adding to the cost of living and pushing the spiral of inflation that much further upward.
In addition to being inflationary, this is a vicious tax. It is an indirect levy which bears most heavily on the little man who can least afford to bear it. It hits him at a time when he is finding it ever more difficult to meet the rising cost of living. This tax hits the veteran who is trying to start up a home. It hits young married couples who are starting up housekeeping. It hits the small taxpayer.
What reason does the minister give us for this tax? Look at the explanation given by the minister at page 336 of Hansard, where he said:
Tire first and primary purpose is to discourage the sort of expenditure which adds to our imports from the United States.
In other words, if I understand the matter correctly, many of these articles, refrigerators, cars, washing machines, and so forth, which are made in Canada, use a certain number of United States parts. I can understand the necessity of keeping these expenditures at a minimum. But surely it would have been more equitable to put these articles and parts on a quota basis, instead of imposing on Canadians this excise tax.
The minister went on to say:
Without these taxes, prices of many of the articles affected could have risen a good deal, to the benefit of the manufacturers and distributors.
Excise Tax Act Amendment

The minister knows very well that this would not have been so, if price controls had been reimposed on these articles. I submit to the committee that if these articles had been put on a quota basis in the bill we have just been discussing just as much or more United States exchange would have been saved as by imposing this excise tax.
What was the minister's second reason for this tax? I quote from page 336 of Hansard again:
... to limit so far as practicable the degree of discrimination against regular suppliers in the United States and their dealer organizations in Canada.
What kind of reason is that? Is it a reason dictated by some bureau in Washington? Apparently the minister and the government are willing to discriminate against the small Canadian taxpayer, against the veteran, against the housewife, but they will not discriminate against United States business firms.
I quote again from the minister's statement:
By imposing these excise taxes, we aTe doing something to protect the legitimate longer-range interests of these businesses.
In effect, the minister says: Discrimination against Canadians is regrettable but it is all right; but under no circumstances shall we discriminate against United1 States business firms. I submit that the minister's second reason for this excise tax is not a good one.
But his third reason is even weaker than the other two. His third reason is the need for more revenue. He says, at page 336 of Hansard:
. .	. additional revenue will not be unwelcome. . .
. . . our budget position, though good, is not as good as many popular reports would have it.
It has been estimated that the government will have a surplus this year of approximately three-quarters of a billion dollars. If I am correct the government is taking over a billion dollars, or almost 40 per cent of the total taxation, in indirect taxes, and now it proposes further to increase the load on the people of small means who can ill afford to pay. At a time when the government is showing such a huge surplus, a surplus which, I believe, is greater than- ad the other surpluses put together since confederation, surely it cannot say that it needs more revenue. That cannot be used as an excuse for this kind of tax.
I dislike exaggerated statements and I try not to make them. I hope I am not making [DOT]one now when I say that, in my opinion, if the government imposes this tax it can be accused, in view of its huge surplus, of being guilty of legalized robbery of the taxpayers

of Canada. This party will1 do all in its power to defeat the resolution. We shall vote against it.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I should like to deal with one or two points just raised by the hon. member for Moose Jaw. First, as to the illegality of the 'tax, I made it perfectly clear in my radio address, and again in the house, that in announcing the imposition of this tax the government was giving notice to the people of Canada who would be affected by it that parliament would be asked to impose this tax and impose it retroactively to the night I made my announcement.
As the committee knows, the usual budgetary practice is for the Minister of Finance to bring in his budget resolutions and make his budget speech when the house is sitting. The resolutions are tabled and notice is given rhat the taxes will be effective as from that day, although in fact they may not be approved by parliament for six weeks or more.
It is quite true that I made my announcement on November 17 when parliament was not sitting, but I stated in my radio broadcast on November 17 that parliament had already been called into emergency session for December 6 and that these resolutions would be brought before parliament as soon as it convened. And they were. So that in fact the notice which is ordinarily given under budgetary practice in this house was given two weeks ahead for obvious reasons. If this tax were to be part of the government's emergency exchange conservation program and were to be announced at the same time as the other measures, it is quite clear that notice had to be given that parliament would be asked to make the tax effective as from that day. It is quite clear that it had to be; that notice had to be given that the resolutions would be made effective; that parliament would be asked to make them effective as from that date, or individual persons could have derived a great deal of advantage from them.
The committee may criticize that procedure; they may say that it is improper, if they will. I do not think it was in the circumstances; but in essence, it is exactly the same procedure as is followed when the budget is brought down, save that we anticipated the calling of parliament by some ten days or two weeks.
Now, with regard to the excise taxes being inflationary, I do not agree that they are inflationary. I think that they are just the reverse; that they are deflationary, if anything. One of the means of combatting inflation, when there is an excess of purchasing power,


194S
[Stage Direction]
Excise Tax Act Amendment
is by imposing taxes such as these that drain off purchasing power. Far from their being inflationary, they will have, if anything, a deflationary effect.
Mr. MacINNIS:: Does not every increase in price do the same thing?


Douglas Charles Abbott: Precisely. Every increase in price does the same thing.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Oh, oh.


Douglas Charles Abbott: That is all right. All the experts on inflation seem to be sitting in this house. The particular articles that are included in this list are not, in their essence, necessities of life. In the great majority of cases they are articles, the purchase of which the people can defer for a time. On the other hand, df they wish to spend their money on a motorcar, a motorcycle, or a new refrigerator, then they have that much less money to spend on other goods which are in short supply and thereby drive up the prices. I do not wish or desire to get into an argument tonight on whether the taxes are inflationary or not. I make the assertion here that they are not inflationary. My hon. friend says they are.
It is true that references have been made to increases in taxes, but in the discussion of this matter I have not heard a single hon. member on any side of the house refer to the taxes which were removed at the same time that these taxes were announced. I refer to the sales tax on domestic sales of electricity, which affects practically everyone in this country who uses it, and the removal of one cent a pound tax on sugar, which affects pretty nearly everybody in this country. Nobody has made any reference to these. In my broadcast speech I mentioned that these taxes were being taken off some of the necessities ol life; I emphasized that the primary purpose of this special emergency tax was not for revenue, and I demonstrated that in part at any rate, by removing these other taxes. Hon. members who pay electric light bills-and I suppose most of them do-have already noticed the tax reduction on their bills, and that is something which will go on for month after month and year after year. These emergency excise taxes are admittedly temporary taxes. As I say, I do not want to make a long speech tonight, but I did want to answer these two points which were raised by the hon. member for Moose Jaw.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: It was our thought when, perhaps by an excess of the Christmas spirit, we allowed ourselves to go into committee just before Christmas, that the proper course to follow was to
deal with the details of the bill and we were
not going to make any speeches until second reading. Since the matter has been brought up, I should like, even in the few minutes that are left, to deal with one point which has been made by the hon. member for Moose Jaw. May I preface that by saying I am astounded more than I can say to hear the Minister of Finance say that there is really no difference between the situation which arises when the budget speech is made, the effect of which we all know, on the one hand, and what was done last November 17 when the minister did not, as he said, pass an order in council, but said that a request would be made. I am maintaining that there is all the difference in the world, a practical difference, in the two. When the Minister of Finance rises in his place in this house and reads his budget speech, it is quite true that the resolutions are put forward and then they become law in the form of bills in perhaps some weeks or months. But from that very moment it is competent for hon. members to say. We will have none of it. It is competent for parliament to say that. It does not very often happen because, after all, the government has its majority; it brings in these bills, and of course they go through in practically every case.


Douglas Charles Abbott: If they did not the government would be defeated.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: I maintain there is a whole world of difference. When they come before parliament it is competent for the elected representatives of the people then and there to say, We will not have it. If they do not do that, by acquiescence they really support them.


Douglas Charles Abbott: They cannot do it without a vote.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: On the other hand, what do we have here? We have a minister three weeks before parliament is assembled, and it might have been, on the same line of reasoning, three months or six months, making the announcement over the air. To suggest in any way that this is comparable with what takes place when the budget is announced is to compare two things that are entirely unreal. The practical difference is also very great. I agree with what the hon. member for Moose Jaw said. It is quite true perhaps he made a verbal slip with regard to the order in council; but I felt badly that there should be ministers of the crown sitting in this house and regarding this apparently as a joke. It is a tremendously serious thing, and it seems to me that it
Excise Tax Act Amendment

should be so regarded. There should be no doubt whatever that what was done last November was a most improper thing, and incidentally there was no reason for it. The minister has told us that they were considering this months ahead. There was any amount of time to have summoned parliament and to have done the thing in the proper way which has the sanction of centuries behind it.
As the hon. member for Moose Jaw said, this precedent can be used by governments that might be even much worse than this government-


An hon. MEMBER:: That is not possible.


James MacKerras Macdonnell: -and have philosophies that this government would greatly reprobate, just as I would reprobate them. Unfortunately this is a predent which has been set, Mr. Chairman. May I call it eleven o'clock?


John Bracken: Before the committee rises, I should like to ask the Minister of Finance one question. A moment ago he was dealing with the propriety of collecting if not imposing taxes, as was done on November 17, by decree, by address, by a speech over the air, as compared with doing it when the budget is brought down. He was defending the action he had taken. The question I want to ask is this. Can he tell the committee of any single instance in the history of Canada or in the history of Britain, where a tax has been imposed and collected in this way by an address of the minister when the house was not in session?


An hon. MEMBER:: Charles I.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I do not know about the history of Britain. So far as I know, there has never been a case in Canada where notice of the proposed imposition of taxes has been given prior to the calling of parliament, when parliament was not in session, and notice given at the same time that it would be made retroactive, that parliament would be asked to make it retroactive.


Mr. CRUICKSHANK:: Bennett did it in the sugar tax and they all profited by it.


John Bracken: That is a good precedent.
Progress reported.



BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

John Bracken: May I ask the minister what the business will be tomorrow?


Douglas Charles Abbott: We shall take first second reading of the farm improvement loan measure which was given first reading today. No, perhaps, first, we might take third reading of Bill No. 3, which was given second reading today; then, second, when that is concluded, second reading of the farm loan improvement measure; after that, continuation of discussion in committee on the tax resolution which we have been considering this evening. Assuming they are finished, we then might proceed with second reading of Bill No. 7, which is the gold measure.


[Stage Direction]
At eleven o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.

Foreign Exchange Conservation

[Stage Direction]
AVERAGE IMPORTS, 1937-39-FOODS COVERED BY SCHEDULE II (In thousands of dollars)
Quota-Category 1-Fruit and Vegetables	12 Months Ended June 30, 1947
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Tariff Item
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Statistical Item
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Scheduled countries
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Non- Scheduled countries
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Total
[Stage Direction]
Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Non- Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Total
[Stage Direction]
83
[Stage Direction]
154
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
155
[Stage Direction]
597
[Stage Direction]
597
[Stage Direction]
376
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
381
[Stage Direction]
940
[Stage Direction]
946
[Stage Direction]
50
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
51
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
84
[Stage Direction]
122 Onions and shallots
[Stage Direction]
218
[Stage Direction]
110
[Stage Direction]
328
[Stage Direction]
726
[Stage Direction]
93
[Stage Direction]
819
[Stage Direction]
93
[Stage Direction]
1 Apples, fresh
[Stage Direction]
182
[Stage Direction]
123
[Stage Direction]
305
[Stage Direction]
759
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
760
[Stage Direction]
100
[Stage Direction]
6 Grapefruit, fresh
[Stage Direction]
1,202
[Stage Direction]
112
[Stage Direction]
1,314
[Stage Direction]
3,761
[Stage Direction]
38
[Stage Direction]
3,799
[Stage Direction]
100a
[Stage Direction]
101, 101b
[Stage Direction]
13 Oranges
[Stage Direction]
5,996
[Stage Direction]
534
[Stage Direction]
6,530
[Stage Direction]
21,072
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
21,088
[Stage Direction]
101a
[Stage Direction]
9 Lemons
[Stage Direction]
1,146
[Stage Direction]
246
[Stage Direction]
1,392
[Stage Direction]
2,301
[Stage Direction]
147
[Stage Direction]
2,448
[Stage Direction]
102
[Stage Direction]
10 Limes
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
152
[Stage Direction]
3,858
[Stage Direction]
168
[Stage Direction]
4,026
[Stage Direction]
152b
[Stage Direction]
78 Grapefruit juice
[Stage Direction]
713
[Stage Direction]
103
[Stage Direction]
816
[Stage Direction]
3,055
[Stage Direction]
159
[Stage Direction]
3^214
[Stage Direction]
354
[Stage Direction]
49
[Stage Direction]
403
[Stage Direction]
80 Fruit syrups
[Stage Direction]
329
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
333
[Stage Direction]
Totals
[Stage Direction]
10,042
[Stage Direction]
1,257
[Stage Direction]
11,299
[Stage Direction]
37,785
[Stage Direction]
690
[Stage Direction]
38,475
[Stage Direction]
Quota-Category 2-Textiles
523, 844	3031 Cotton fabrics not bleached, mercer-						
	ized or coloured			1,130	1,102	2,232	25,308	268	25,576
523a	3032 Canton flannels, plain shirtings, not
[Stage Direction]
coloured
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
152
[Stage Direction]
166
[Stage Direction]
6,845
[Stage Direction]
120
[Stage Direction]
6,965
[Stage Direction]
3033 Towelling in web, not coloured
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
47
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
53
[Stage Direction]
3034 Voiles, scrims, etc., not coloured
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
582
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
617
[Stage Direction]
3035 Cotton fabrics, n.o.p., not coloured
[Stage Direction]
159
[Stage Direction]
427
[Stage Direction]
586
[Stage Direction]
3,584
[Stage Direction]
252
[Stage Direction]
3,836
[Stage Direction]
523b
[Stage Direction]
821
[Stage Direction]
821
[Stage Direction]
3026 Coloured cotton fabrics, over 80c
[Stage Direction]
)
[Stage Direction]
1,869
[Stage Direction]
3,442
[Stage Direction]
5,311
[Stage Direction]
30,284
[Stage Direction]
1,862
[Stage Direction]
32,146
[Stage Direction]
508
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
527
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
523c
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
510
[Stage Direction]
511
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
523e
[Stage Direction]
3040 Cotton fabrics with cut pile (velveteen
[Stage Direction]
77
[Stage Direction]
246
[Stage Direction]
323
[Stage Direction]
2,772
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
2,812
[Stage Direction]
523j
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
68
[Stage Direction]
69
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
523k
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
72
[Stage Direction]
73
[Stage Direction]
256
[Stage Direction]
59
[Stage Direction]
315
[Stage Direction]
5231
[Stage Direction]
62
[Stage Direction]
62
[Stage Direction]
524a
[Stage Direction]
432
[Stage Direction]
432
[Stage Direction]
693
[Stage Direction]
693
[Stage Direction]
528
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
529
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
278
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
300
[Stage Direction]
3054 Lace, bobinet, nets and netting, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
294
[Stage Direction]
321
[Stage Direction]
356
[Stage Direction]
1,237
[Stage Direction]
1,593
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
529a
[Stage Direction]
65
[Stage Direction]
71
[Stage Direction]
136
[Stage Direction]
765
[Stage Direction]
110
[Stage Direction]
875
[Stage Direction]
530
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
88
[Stage Direction]
117
[Stage Direction]
228
[Stage Direction]
51
[Stage Direction]
279
[Stage Direction]
531
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
817
[Stage Direction]
227
[Stage Direction]
1,044
[Stage Direction]
532
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
52
[Stage Direction]
315
[Stage Direction]
54
[Stage Direction]
369
[Stage Direction]
586
[Stage Direction]
283
[Stage Direction]
869
[Stage Direction]
3069 Cotton dresses
[Stage Direction]
|
[Stage Direction]
522
[Stage Direction]
295
[Stage Direction]
817
[Stage Direction]
213
[Stage Direction]
89
[Stage Direction]
302
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
46
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
237
[Stage Direction]
237
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
3087 Cotton curtains
[Stage Direction]
72
[Stage Direction]
248
[Stage Direction]
320
[Stage Direction]
363
[Stage Direction]
120
[Stage Direction]
483
[Stage Direction]
3088 Cotton diapers, napkins, etc
[Stage Direction]
41
[Stage Direction]
243
[Stage Direction]
284
[Stage Direction]
496
[Stage Direction]
488
[Stage Direction]
984
[Stage Direction]
3094 Quilts and counterpanes
[Stage Direction]
151
[Stage Direction]
113
[Stage Direction]
264
[Stage Direction]
312
[Stage Direction]
51
[Stage Direction]
363
[Stage Direction]
3095 Cotton sheets
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
283
[Stage Direction]
316
[Stage Direction]
1.872
[Stage Direction]
47
[Stage Direction]
1,919
[Stage Direction]
3096 Cotton towels
[Stage Direction]
116
[Stage Direction]
344
[Stage Direction]
460
[Stage Direction]
1,664
[Stage Direction]
180
[Stage Direction]
1,844
[Stage Direction]
3097 Cotton mfrs. n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
306
[Stage Direction]
279
[Stage Direction]
585
[Stage Direction]
1,100
[Stage Direction]
136
[Stage Direction]
1,236
[Stage Direction]
120
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
123
[Stage Direction]
532
[Stage Direction]
514
[Stage Direction]
151
[Stage Direction]
665
[Stage Direction]
3472 Cotton fabric rubberized
[Stage Direction]
102
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
137
[Stage Direction]
36
[Stage Direction]
78
[Stage Direction]
114
[Stage Direction]
3473 Cotton window shade cloth
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
73
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
85
[Stage Direction]
3474 Cotton fabrics, coated or impregnated...
[Stage Direction]
474
[Stage Direction]
153
[Stage Direction]
627
[Stage Direction]
1,229
[Stage Direction]
138
[Stage Direction]
1,367
[Stage Direction]
3487 Typewriter ribbons
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
24
[Stage Direction]
52
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
66
[Stage Direction]
532a
[Stage Direction]
3091 Cotton handkerchiefs
[Stage Direction]
126
[Stage Direction]
546
[Stage Direction]
672
[Stage Direction]
498
[Stage Direction]
536
[Stage Direction]
1,034
[Stage Direction]
532b
[Stage Direction]
3050 Cotton fabrics for covering books
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
34
[Stage Direction]
99
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
100
[Stage Direction]
541a
[Stage Direction]
3135 Woven fabrics wholly of jute n.o.p. (col-
[Stage Direction]
oured)
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
53
[Stage Direction]
54
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
59
[Stage Direction]
542
[Stage Direction]
3138 Woven fabrics, veg. fibre, cut pile
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
68
[Stage Direction]
84
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
43
[Stage Direction]
73
[Stage Direction]
542a
[Stage Direction]
3137 Woven fabric, up to 12*
[Stage Direction]
45
[Stage Direction]
129
[Stage Direction]
174
[Stage Direction]
695
[Stage Direction]
266
[Stage Direction]
961
[Stage Direction]
545
[Stage Direction]
3180 Veg. fibre, mfrs. n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
306
[Stage Direction]
606
[Stage Direction]
912
[Stage Direction]
1,316
[Stage Direction]
271
[Stage Direction]
1,587
[Stage Direction]
546
[Stage Direction]
3179 Jute mfrs. n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
3478 Jute fabric, coated or impregnated
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
Foreign Exchange Conservation
Quota-Category 2-Textiles-Con.
[Stage Direction]
Tariff Item
[Stage Direction]
Statistical Item
[Stage Direction]
Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Non- Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Total
[Stage Direction]
Schedulec countries
[Stage Direction]
Non- Schedulec countries
[Stage Direction]
Total
[Stage Direction]
548
[Stage Direction]
3162 Clothing of veg. fibre
[Stage Direction]
71
[Stage Direction]
34
[Stage Direction]
105
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
50
[Stage Direction]
3173 Diapers, quilts, bobinets, veg. fibre
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
93
[Stage Direction]
97
[Stage Direction]
24
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
3175 Handkerchiefs, flax or hemp
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
488
[Stage Direction]
514
[Stage Direction]
76
[Stage Direction]
1,833
[Stage Direction]
1,909
[Stage Direction]
3479 Fabric of veg. fibre coated or impreg-
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
34
[Stage Direction]
262
[Stage Direction]
54
[Stage Direction]
316
[Stage Direction]
553
[Stage Direction]
3084 Cotton blankets
[Stage Direction]
54
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
58
[Stage Direction]
520
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
523
[Stage Direction]
3342 Woollen blankets
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
386
[Stage Direction]
391
[Stage Direction]
279
[Stage Direction]
655
[Stage Direction]
934
[Stage Direction]
722
[Stage Direction]
722
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
625
[Stage Direction]
629
[Stage Direction]
554a
[Stage Direction]
3290 Lustres and Italian linings
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
60
[Stage Direction]
61
[Stage Direction]
51
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
81
[Stage Direction]
554b
[Stage Direction]
3284 Flannels
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
165
[Stage Direction]
166
[Stage Direction]
111
[Stage Direction]
574
[Stage Direction]
685
[Stage Direction]
3285 Felt cloth n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
3286 Overcoatings
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1,146
[Stage Direction]
1,147
[Stage Direction]
161
[Stage Direction]
803
[Stage Direction]
964
[Stage Direction]
3287 Tweeds
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1,054
[Stage Direction]
1,055
[Stage Direction]
218
[Stage Direction]
1,945
[Stage Direction]
2,163
[Stage Direction]
3288 Worsted and serges
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
5,929
[Stage Direction]
5,937
[Stage Direction]
3,373
[Stage Direction]
12,337
[Stage Direction]
15,710
[Stage Direction]
3289 Fabrics, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
45
[Stage Direction]
1,074
[Stage Direction]
1,119
[Stage Direction]
925
[Stage Direction]
778
[Stage Direction]
1,703
[Stage Direction]
3292 Fabrics with art pile (plush)
[Stage Direction]
24
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
54
[Stage Direction]
408
[Stage Direction]
118
[Stage Direction]
526
[Stage Direction]
714
[Stage Direction]
714
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
1,424
[Stage Direction]
1,426
[Stage Direction]
554d
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
554f
[Stage Direction]
47
[Stage Direction]
47
[Stage Direction]
34
[Stage Direction]
76
[Stage Direction]
110
[Stage Direction]
555
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
3324 Women's and children's outer-garments..
[Stage Direction]
130
[Stage Direction]
182
[Stage Direction]
312
[Stage Direction]
1,295
[Stage Direction]
900
[Stage Direction]
2,195
[Stage Direction]
3325 Clothing and wearing apparel, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
32
[Stage Direction]
556
[Stage Direction]
58S
[Stage Direction]
112
[Stage Direction]
225
[Stage Direction]
337
[Stage Direction]
555
[Stage Direction]
3326 Men's and boy's jackets, vests, pants
[Stage Direction]
126
[Stage Direction]
607
[Stage Direction]
733
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
43
[Stage Direction]
43
[Stage Direction]
3345 Wool mfrs., n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
63
[Stage Direction]
93
[Stage Direction]
127
[Stage Direction]
46
[Stage Direction]
173
[Stage Direction]
3483 Wool fabrics, coated or impregnated
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
17
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
560a
[Stage Direction]
3224 Silk fabrics
[Stage Direction]
150
[Stage Direction]
101
[Stage Direction]
251
[Stage Direction]
244
[Stage Direction]
254
[Stage Direction]
498
[Stage Direction]
560b
[Stage Direction]
3225 Silk fabrics up to 26"
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
560c
[Stage Direction]
3232 Silk fabrics, cut pile
[Stage Direction]
157
[Stage Direction]
122
[Stage Direction]
279
[Stage Direction]
769
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
799
[Stage Direction]
561
[Stage Direction]
3372 Art silk fabrics
[Stage Direction]
410
[Stage Direction]
1,371
[Stage Direction]
1,781
[Stage Direction]
8,257
[Stage Direction]
3,534
[Stage Direction]
11,791
[Stage Direction]
561a
[Stage Direction]
3481 Silk fabrics, coated
[Stage Direction]
56
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
58
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
3484 Art silk fabrics, coated
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
130
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
132
[Stage Direction]
562
[Stage Direction]
3228 Silk ribbons up to 12"
[Stage Direction]
66
[Stage Direction]
32
[Stage Direction]
98
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
562a
[Stage Direction]
3373 Art silk ribbons up to 12"
[Stage Direction]
109
[Stage Direction]
71
[Stage Direction]
180
[Stage Direction]
1,027
[Stage Direction]
128
[Stage Direction]
1,155
[Stage Direction]
564a
[Stage Direction]
3229 Silk fabrics for ties and scarves
[Stage Direction]
366
[Stage Direction]
559
[Stage Direction]
925
[Stage Direction]
3,196
[Stage Direction]
219
[Stage Direction]
3,415
[Stage Direction]
565
[Stage Direction]
3501 Embroideries, lace, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
108
[Stage Direction]
502
[Stage Direction]
610
[Stage Direction]
658
[Stage Direction]
1,198
[Stage Direction]
1,856
[Stage Direction]
3553 Braids, chenille, fringes, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
159
[Stage Direction]
44
[Stage Direction]
203
[Stage Direction]
305
[Stage Direction]
39
[Stage Direction]
344
[Stage Direction]
566
[Stage Direction]
3574 Braided cords, non-elastic up to 1"
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
80
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
98
[Stage Direction]
567
[Stage Direction]
32
[Stage Direction]
189
[Stage Direction]
221
[Stage Direction]
3247 Silk dresses
[Stage Direction]
[
[Stage Direction]
273
[Stage Direction]
284
[Stage Direction]
557
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
43
[Stage Direction]
37
[Stage Direction]
140
[Stage Direction]
177
[Stage Direction]
3251 Silk handkerchiefs
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
48
[Stage Direction]
51
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
3252 Silk mfrs., n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
48
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
17
[Stage Direction]
567a
[Stage Direction]
2.036
[Stage Direction]
319
[Stage Direction]
2,355
[Stage Direction]
3384 Women's and children's art silk dresses. /
[Stage Direction]
580
[Stage Direction]
99
[Stage Direction]
679
[Stage Direction]
929
[Stage Direction]
119
[Stage Direction]
1,048
[Stage Direction]
3390 Art silk curtains
[Stage Direction]
(included
[Stage Direction]
in 3392)
[Stage Direction]
317
[Stage Direction]
51
[Stage Direction]
368
[Stage Direction]
3391 Art silk handkerchiefs
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
139
[Stage Direction]
95
[Stage Direction]
234
[Stage Direction]
3392 Art silk mfrs., n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
47
[Stage Direction]
71
[Stage Direction]
118
[Stage Direction]
572
[Stage Direction]
119
[Stage Direction]
691
[Stage Direction]
568
[Stage Direction]
3067 Cotton knitted underwear
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
78
[Stage Direction]
84
[Stage Direction]
1,702
[Stage Direction]
199
[Stage Direction]
1,901
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
3283 Knitted wool fabrics
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
67
[Stage Direction]
70
[Stage Direction]
765
[Stage Direction]
151
[Stage Direction]
916
[Stage Direction]
3323 Knitted wool underwear
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
175
[Stage Direction]
181
[Stage Direction]
62
[Stage Direction]
420
[Stage Direction]
482
[Stage Direction]
3371 Knitted art silk fabrics
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
67
[Stage Direction]
89
[Stage Direction]
2.361
[Stage Direction]
298
[Stage Direction]
2,659
[Stage Direction]
3385 Knitted art silk underwear
[Stage Direction]
(included
[Stage Direction]
in 3383)
[Stage Direction]
682
[Stage Direction]
164
[Stage Direction]
846
[Stage Direction]
3514 Knitted garments, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
99
[Stage Direction]
699
[Stage Direction]
798
[Stage Direction]
2,473
[Stage Direction]
1,629
[Stage Direction]
4,102
[Stage Direction]
3524 Knitted goods, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
34
[Stage Direction]
78
[Stage Direction]
112
[Stage Direction]
92
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
93
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
17
[Stage Direction]
568a
[Stage Direction]
3322 Wool socks and stockings
[Stage Direction]
502
[Stage Direction]
503
[Stage Direction]
114
[Stage Direction]
1,489
[Stage Direction]
1,603
[Stage Direction]
568a
[Stage Direction]
3065 Cotton socks and stockings
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
268
[Stage Direction]
42
[Stage Direction]
310
[Stage Direction]
3244 Silk socks and stockings
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
1,049
[Stage Direction]
48
[Stage Direction]
1,097
[Stage Direction]
3382 Art silk socks and stockings
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
488
[Stage Direction]
77
[Stage Direction]
565
[Stage Direction]
569(i)
[Stage Direction]
3518 Hats, fur felt
[Stage Direction]
70
[Stage Direction]
213
[Stage Direction]
283
[Stage Direction]
120
[Stage Direction]
261
[Stage Direction]
381
[Stage Direction]
3561 Hoods and shapes, fur felts
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
53
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
88
[Stage Direction]
569 (ii)
[Stage Direction]
3519 Hats, w'ool felt
[Stage Direction]
17
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
52
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
41
[Stage Direction]
24
[Stage Direction]
24
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
569(iii)
[Stage Direction]
3563 Hoods and shapes, knitted, crocketted..
[Stage Direction]
133
[Stage Direction]
87
[Stage Direction]
220
[Stage Direction]
130
[Stage Direction]
175
[Stage Direction]
305
[Stage Direction]
569(iv)
[Stage Direction]
3564 Hoods and shapes, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
37
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
38
[Stage Direction]
569(v)
[Stage Direction]
46
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
3521 Hats, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
65
[Stage Direction]
34
[Stage Direction]
99
[Stage Direction]
168
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
188
[Stage Direction]
509a (i)
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
569a (ii)
[Stage Direction]
3517 Caps, bonnets, berets
[Stage Direction]
48
[Stage Direction]
37
[Stage Direction]
85
[Stage Direction]
83
[Stage Direction]
37
[Stage Direction]
120
[Stage Direction]
569c
[Stage Direction]
3559 Hat bands, up to 6"
[Stage Direction]
250
[Stage Direction]
24
[Stage Direction]
274
[Stage Direction]
608
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
635
[Stage Direction]
569d
[Stage Direction]
3570 If atters' ribbons
[Stage Direction]
106
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
115
[Stage Direction]
446
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
461
[Stage Direction]
570
[Stage Direction]
9074 Mats, door or carriage, not metal, n.o.p..
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
571
[Stage Direction]
3172 Mats, rugs, bow or jute
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
174
[Stage Direction]
187
[Stage Direction]
142
[Stage Direction]
369
[Stage Direction]
511
[Stage Direction]
3425 Straw or paper mats or matting
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
50
[Stage Direction]
32
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
571a
[Stage Direction]
264
[Stage Direction]
264
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
182
[Stage Direction]
182
[Stage Direction]
572
[Stage Direction]
47
[Stage Direction]
47
[Stage Direction]
S
[Stage Direction]
752
[Stage Direction]
760
[Stage Direction]
3302 Axminster in squares
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
108
[Stage Direction]
109
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
656
[Stage Direction]
681
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
1,328
[Stage Direction]
1,347
[Stage Direction]
3304 Brussels and Wilton, squares
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
413
[Stage Direction]
421
[Stage Direction]
3305 Engrain 2 and 3 ply, roll
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
61
[Stage Direction]
62
[Stage Direction]
123
[Stage Direction]
Foreign Exchange Conservation
Quota-Category 2-Textiles-Cone.
[Stage Direction]
Tariff Item
[Stage Direction]
Statistical Item
[Stage Direction]
Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Non- Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Total
[Stage Direction]
Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Non- Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Total
[Stage Direction]
3306 Engrain, 2 and 3 ply, squares
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
58
[Stage Direction]
61
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
185
[Stage Direction]
215
[Stage Direction]
3307 Oriental and handwoven, squares. .
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
486
[Stage Direction]
497
[Stage Direction]
371
[Stage Direction]
3,299
[Stage Direction]
3,670
[Stage Direction]
3308 Tapestry velvet, roll
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
100
[Stage Direction]
101
[Stage Direction]
3309 Tapestry velvet, squares
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
3310 Mats, hearth rugs and runners
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
24
[Stage Direction]
117
[Stage Direction]
141
[Stage Direction]
3554 Carpets, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
140
[Stage Direction]
130
[Stage Direction]
270
[Stage Direction]
573
[Stage Direction]
3485 Oil cloth, Hoor, linoleum
[Stage Direction]
73
[Stage Direction]
368
[Stage Direction]
441
[Stage Direction]
1,788
[Stage Direction]
621
[Stage Direction]
2,409
[Stage Direction]
3486 Oil cloth, enamelled, shelf and table
[Stage Direction]
141
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
161
[Stage Direction]
1,032
[Stage Direction]
43
[Stage Direction]
1,075
[Stage Direction]
574a
[Stage Direction]
3568 Webbing with strands of rubber inter-
[Stage Direction]
woven. 12*
[Stage Direction]
95
[Stage Direction]
53
[Stage Direction]
148
[Stage Direction]
254
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
269
[Stage Direction]
576
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
578
[Stage Direction]
9056 Belts of all kinds, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
113
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
134
[Stage Direction]
84
[Stage Direction]
48
[Stage Direction]
132
[Stage Direction]
9080 Regalia and badges
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
38
[Stage Direction]
619a
[Stage Direction]
1705 Clothing of Indian rubber or waterproof
[Stage Direction]
cotton
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
56
[Stage Direction]
1714 Raincoats of Indian rubber or water-
[Stage Direction]
proof cotton
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
50
[Stage Direction]
52
[Stage Direction]
36
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
66
[Stage Direction]
818
[Stage Direction]
3071 Raincoats of Indian rubber or water-
[Stage Direction]
proof cotton
[Stage Direction]
^included
[Stage Direction]
above)
[Stage Direction]
181
[Stage Direction]
908
[Stage Direction]
1,089
[Stage Direction]
3030 Cotton fabrics for handkerchiefs
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
79
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
3557 Curtains, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
125
[Stage Direction]
135
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
Totals
[Stage Direction]
10,301
[Stage Direction]
30,591
[Stage Direction]
40,892
[Stage Direction]
128,535
[Stage Direction]
52,402
[Stage Direction]
180,937
[Stage Direction]
Quota-Category 3-Leather, Leather Products and Related Goods
[Stage Direction]
568b
[Stage Direction]
1706 Rubber gloves
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
2236 Leather gloves
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
722
[Stage Direction]
745
[Stage Direction]
90
[Stage Direction]
1,081
[Stage Direction]
1,171
[Stage Direction]
3064 Cotton gloves
[Stage Direction]
24
[Stage Direction]
302
[Stage Direction]
326
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
'334
[Stage Direction]
343
[Stage Direction]
3380 Art silk gloves
[Stage Direction]
3515 Knitted gloves
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
398
[Stage Direction]
421
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
141
[Stage Direction]
170
[Stage Direction]
3523 Mitts and mittens
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
568c
[Stage Direction]
2237 Women's kid gloves
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
604
[Stage Direction]
2210 Dressed kid
[Stage Direction]
594
[Stage Direction]
565
[Stage Direction]
1,159
[Stage Direction]
956
[Stage Direction]
285
[Stage Direction]
1,241
[Stage Direction]
2211 Belting leather
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
58
[Stage Direction]
76
[Stage Direction]
61
[Stage Direction]
66
[Stage Direction]
127
[Stage Direction]
2215 Leather dressed, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
198
[Stage Direction]
161
[Stage Direction]
359
[Stage Direction]
730
[Stage Direction]
487
[Stage Direction]
1,217
[Stage Direction]
2216 Chamois skin
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
73
[Stage Direction]
79
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
189
[Stage Direction]
2217 Japanned, patent, or enamelled
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
251
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
2219 Scrap leather
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
83
[Stage Direction]
604a
[Stage Direction]
2226 Crust oil leather for chamois
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
604b
[Stage Direction]
2218 Sole leather
[Stage Direction]
17
[Stage Direction]
119
[Stage Direction]
136
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
605
[Stage Direction]
2221 Leather produced from East India,
[Stage Direction]
tanned kip
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
340
[Stage Direction]
605a
[Stage Direction]
2220 Genuine pig and morocco
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
194
[Stage Direction]
204
[Stage Direction]
109
[Stage Direction]
170
[Stage Direction]
606
[Stage Direction]
(inch in 2221).
[Stage Direction]
607
[Stage Direction]
2224 Leather for gloves or clothing
[Stage Direction]
424
[Stage Direction]
43
[Stage Direction]
467
[Stage Direction]
753
[Stage Direction]
176
[Stage Direction]
929
[Stage Direction]
607a 608, 608a,
[Stage Direction]
2225 Leather for upholstering leathers
[Stage Direction]
47
[Stage Direction]
47
[Stage Direction]
94
[Stage Direction]
73
[Stage Direction]
177
[Stage Direction]
250
[Stage Direction]
608b
[Stage Direction]
2213 Leather, tanned only
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
158
[Stage Direction]
193
[Stage Direction]
56
[Stage Direction]
823
[Stage Direction]
879
[Stage Direction]
611
[Stage Direction]
2231 Boots and shoes, pegged, etc
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
611a
[Stage Direction]
1702 Canvas shoes, rubber soles
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
2232 Boots and shoes, men's
[Stage Direction]
49
[Stage Direction]
287
[Stage Direction]
336
[Stage Direction]
617
[Stage Direction]
415
[Stage Direction]
1,032
[Stage Direction]
2233 Boots and shoes, women's
[Stage Direction]
646
[Stage Direction]
154
[Stage Direction]
800
[Stage Direction]
2,668
[Stage Direction]
176
[Stage Direction]
2,844
[Stage Direction]
2234 Boots and shoes, children's
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
38
[Stage Direction]
65
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
9059 Boots and shoes, felt uppers
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
46
[Stage Direction]
50
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
129
[Stage Direction]
148
[Stage Direction]
9060 Boots and shoes, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
145
[Stage Direction]
85
[Stage Direction]
230
[Stage Direction]
394
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
420
[Stage Direction]
9072 Insoles of all kinds
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
611b
[Stage Direction]
2235 Leather garments
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
39
[Stage Direction]
617
[Stage Direction]
1/00 Rubber bathing shoes
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
1703 Rubber boots and shoes
[Stage Direction]
49
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
56
[Stage Direction]
448
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
449
[Stage Direction]
622
[Stage Direction]
9087 Trunks, valises, etc
[Stage Direction]
56
[Stage Direction]
57
[Stage Direction]
113
[Stage Direction]
405
[Stage Direction]
339
[Stage Direction]
744
[Stage Direction]
9243 Baskets, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
46
[Stage Direction]
49
[Stage Direction]
104
[Stage Direction]
153
[Stage Direction]
623
[Stage Direction]
9067 Fancy cases, boxes, etc
[Stage Direction]
410
[Stage Direction]
287
[Stage Direction]
697
[Stage Direction]
1,152
[Stage Direction]
197
[Stage Direction]
1,349
[Stage Direction]
90/7 Pocket books, purses, satchels
[Stage Direction]
474
[Stage Direction]
295
[Stage Direction]
769
[Stage Direction]
525
[Stage Direction]
679
[Stage Direction]
1,204
[Stage Direction]
9086 Toilet and manicure sets
[Stage Direction]
44
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
67
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
Totals
[Stage Direction]
3,398
[Stage Direction]
4,578
[Stage Direction]
7,976
[Stage Direction]
9,739
[Stage Direction]
6,459
[Stage Direction]
16,198
[Stage Direction]
Quota Category 4-Miscellaneous
[Stage Direction]
228
[Stage Direction]
8234 Liquid soap
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
8235 Soap powders and flakes
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
41
[Stage Direction]
606
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
6O7
[Stage Direction]
8236 Toilet soap
[Stage Direction]
37
[Stage Direction]
90
[Stage Direction]
127
[Stage Direction]
145
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
152
[Stage Direction]
8238 Soap, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
44
[Stage Direction]
137
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
230
[Stage Direction]
8231 C astile sonp
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
46
[Stage Direction]
49
[Stage Direction]
252
[Stage Direction]
8392 Blacking and shoe leather dressing
[Stage Direction]
133
[Stage Direction]
83
[Stage Direction]
216
[Stage Direction]
278
[Stage Direction]
53
[Stage Direction]
33}
[Stage Direction]
8413 Polish, knife or other
[Stage Direction]
161
[Stage Direction]
79
[Stage Direction]
240
[Stage Direction]
423
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
326ii
[Stage Direction]
7083 Glass tableware and cut glass, n.o.p.. ..
[Stage Direction]
569
[Stage Direction]
432
[Stage Direction]
1,001
[Stage Direction]
2,248
[Stage Direction]
813
[Stage Direction]
3,®6i
[Stage Direction]
7085 Glass shades or globes
[Stage Direction]
71
[Stage Direction]
44
[Stage Direction]
115
[Stage Direction]
94
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
97
[Stage Direction]
326e
[Stage Direction]
7121 Glass for cutting or mounting
[Stage Direction]
119
[Stage Direction]
76
[Stage Direction]
195
[Stage Direction]
643
[Stage Direction]
127
[Stage Direction]
7?0
[Stage Direction]
Foreign Exchange Conservation
Quota Category 4-Miscellaneous-Cone.
[Stage Direction]
Tariff Item
[Stage Direction]
Statistical Item
[Stage Direction]
Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Non- Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Total
[Stage Direction]
Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Non- Scheduled countries
[Stage Direction]
Total
[Stage Direction]
362
[Stage Direction]
6086 Manufactures of cold, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
32
[Stage Direction]
382
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
385
[Stage Direction]
6094 Manufactures of silver, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
280
[Stage Direction]
311
[Stage Direction]
142
[Stage Direction]
509
[Stage Direction]
651
[Stage Direction]
366
[Stage Direction]
6135 Watches
[Stage Direction]
188
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
193
[Stage Direction]
1,849
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
1,857
[Stage Direction]
366a
[Stage Direction]
6137 Watch actions and movements
[Stage Direction]
966
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
972
[Stage Direction]
3,010
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
3,012
[Stage Direction]
367
[Stage Direction]
6136 Watch cases and parts
[Stage Direction]
273
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
279
[Stage Direction]
1,085
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1,086
[Stage Direction]
368
[Stage Direction]
6131 Clocks
[Stage Direction]
214
[Stage Direction]
93
[Stage Direction]
307
[Stage Direction]
1,077
[Stage Direction]
41
[Stage Direction]
1,118
[Stage Direction]
6132 Clock movements and cases
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
47
[Stage Direction]
69
[Stage Direction]
84
[Stage Direction]
150
[Stage Direction]
234
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
34
[Stage Direction]
185
[Stage Direction]
185
[Stage Direction]
429
[Stage Direction]
5371 Knives and forks
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
148
[Stage Direction]
188
[Stage Direction]
282
[Stage Direction]
474
[Stage Direction]
756
[Stage Direction]
5372 Penknives
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
149
[Stage Direction]
168
[Stage Direction]
840
[Stage Direction]
320
[Stage Direction]
1,160
[Stage Direction]
5373 Razors and parts
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
118
[Stage Direction]
147
[Stage Direction]
274
[Stage Direction]
106
[Stage Direction]
380
[Stage Direction]
5374 Safety razor blades
[Stage Direction]
91
[Stage Direction]
66
[Stage Direction]
157
[Stage Direction]
56
[Stage Direction]
41
[Stage Direction]
97
[Stage Direction]
5375 Scissors and shears
[Stage Direction]
65
[Stage Direction]
109
[Stage Direction]
174
[Stage Direction]
661
[Stage Direction]
182
[Stage Direction]
843
[Stage Direction]
5376 Knives, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
82
[Stage Direction]
112
[Stage Direction]
194
[Stage Direction]
207
[Stage Direction]
100
[Stage Direction]
307
[Stage Direction]
5377 Spoons
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
108
[Stage Direction]
69
[Stage Direction]
177
[Stage Direction]
5378 Butcher and kitchen knives
[Stage Direction]
(in
[Stage Direction]
cl. in 5376)
[Stage Direction]
532
[Stage Direction]
165
[Stage Direction]
697
[Stage Direction]
5700 Cutlery blades and blanks
[Stage Direction]
76
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
77
[Stage Direction]
317
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
338
[Stage Direction]
440j
[Stage Direction]
9019 Trawls, hooks, reels, etc
[Stage Direction]
188
[Stage Direction]
154
[Stage Direction]
342
[Stage Direction]
1,166
[Stage Direction]
275
[Stage Direction]
1,441
[Stage Direction]
441
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
5698 Guns and rifles
[Stage Direction]
187
[Stage Direction]
51
[Stage Direction]
238
[Stage Direction]
619
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
637
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
64
[Stage Direction]
64
[Stage Direction]
88
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
91
[Stage Direction]
9246 Cartridge cases, cap3, primers
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
9247 Ammunition, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
147
[Stage Direction]
244
[Stage Direction]
391
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
452
[Stage Direction]
473
[Stage Direction]
441e
[Stage Direction]
5699 Guns and rifles not made in Canada
[Stage Direction]
54
[Stage Direction]
133
[Stage Direction]
187
[Stage Direction]
1,085
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
1,092
[Stage Direction]
450
[Stage Direction]
5424 Skates of all kinds and parts
[Stage Direction]
58
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
59
[Stage Direction]
117
[Stage Direction]
42
[Stage Direction]
159
[Stage Direction]
511
[Stage Direction]
1707 Golf balls
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
72
[Stage Direction]
73
[Stage Direction]
17
[Stage Direction]
22
[Stage Direction]
39
[Stage Direction]
4125 Walking-sticks
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
4154 Skiis, racquets, bats
[Stage Direction]
14
[Stage Direction]
55
[Stage Direction]
69
[Stage Direction]
66
[Stage Direction]
152
[Stage Direction]
218
[Stage Direction]
50
[Stage Direction]
50
[Stage Direction]
58
[Stage Direction]
58
[Stage Direction]
9005 Balls for sports, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
34
[Stage Direction]
62
[Stage Direction]
96
[Stage Direction]
152
[Stage Direction]
237
[Stage Direction]
389
[Stage Direction]
9014 Golf clubs
[Stage Direction]
17
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
60
[Stage Direction]
69
[Stage Direction]
129
[Stage Direction]
511b
[Stage Direction]
9013 Fishing rods
[Stage Direction]
49
[Stage Direction]
21
[Stage Direction]
70
[Stage Direction]
327
[Stage Direction]
50
[Stage Direction]
377
[Stage Direction]
518
[Stage Direction]
9001 Bagatelle and other game tables
[Stage Direction]
212
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
223
[Stage Direction]
428
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
433
[Stage Direction]
9002 Balls, cases, racks, etc
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
624a
[Stage Direction]
9009 Dolls
[Stage Direction]
. 36
[Stage Direction]
70
[Stage Direction]
106
[Stage Direction]
108
[Stage Direction]
59
[Stage Direction]
167
[Stage Direction]
9016 Mechanical toys, metal
[Stage Direction]
146
[Stage Direction]
97
[Stage Direction]
243
[Stage Direction]
331
[Stage Direction]
357
[Stage Direction]
688
[Stage Direction]
9017 Juvenile construction sets
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
40
[Stage Direction]
42
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
129
[Stage Direction]
148
[Stage Direction]
9018 Toys, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
639
[Stage Direction]
479
[Stage Direction]
1,118
[Stage Direction]
2,273
[Stage Direction]
497
[Stage Direction]
2,770
[Stage Direction]
634
[Stage Direction]
2083 Badminton birds
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
17
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
44
[Stage Direction]
2084 Manufactures of feathers, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
48
[Stage Direction]
125
[Stage Direction]
50
[Stage Direction]
175
[Stage Direction]
9204 Feathers, artificial, for hats
[Stage Direction]
76
[Stage Direction]
160
[Stage Direction]
236
[Stage Direction]
164
[Stage Direction]
132
[Stage Direction]
296
[Stage Direction]
652
[Stage Direction]
9069 Combs, toilet, fanev and dressing
[Stage Direction]
37
[Stage Direction]
116
[Stage Direction]
153
[Stage Direction]
180
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
206
[Stage Direction]
656
[Stage Direction]
9084 Tobacco pipes and holders
[Stage Direction]
46
[Stage Direction]
378
[Stage Direction]
424
[Stage Direction]
579
[Stage Direction]
398
[Stage Direction]
977
[Stage Direction]
9085 Tobacco cases and pouches
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
73
[Stage Direction]
89
[Stage Direction]
69
[Stage Direction]
. 87
[Stage Direction]
156
[Stage Direction]
Totals
[Stage Direction]
5,333
[Stage Direction]
4,381
[Stage Direction]
9,714
[Stage Direction]
23,860
[Stage Direction]
6,396
[Stage Direction]
30,256
[Stage Direction]
Quota-Category 5-Prepared Foods
[Stage Direction]
17
[Stage Direction]
2284 Cheese
[Stage Direction]
128
[Stage Direction]
211
[Stage Direction]
339
[Stage Direction]
407
[Stage Direction]
318
[Stage Direction]
725
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
80
[Stage Direction]
488
[Stage Direction]
568
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
138
[Stage Direction]
138
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
80
[Stage Direction]
110
[Stage Direction]
86
[Stage Direction]
86
[Stage Direction]
277 Cocoa and chocolate preparations, n.o.p.
[Stage Direction]
9
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
20
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
25
[Stage Direction]
25a,44
[Stage Direction]
2S7 Coffee extracts, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
104
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
115
[Stage Direction]
341
[Stage Direction]
245
[Stage Direction]
586
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
286 Coffee, roasted and substitutes
[Stage Direction]
223
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
224
[Stage Direction]
192
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
193
[Stage Direction]
38
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
41
[Stage Direction]
76
[Stage Direction]
76
[Stage Direction]
54
[Stage Direction]
255
[Stage Direction]
309
[Stage Direction]
218
[Stage Direction]
218
[Stage Direction]
85
[Stage Direction]
121 Mushrooms and truffles, fresh
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
23
[Stage Direction]
35
[Stage Direction]
144 Mushrooms and truffles, canned
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
44
[Stage Direction]
45
[Stage Direction]
60
[Stage Direction]
8
[Stage Direction]
68
[Stage Direction]
90a
[Stage Direction]
134 Vegetables, dried, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
64
[Stage Direction]
32
[Stage Direction]
96
[Stage Direction]
114
[Stage Direction]
15
[Stage Direction]
129
[Stage Direction]
90b
[Stage Direction]
152 Pickles
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
67
[Stage Direction]
100
[Stage Direction]
265
[Stage Direction]
127
[Stage Direction]
392
[Stage Direction]
90c
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
5
[Stage Direction]
153 Sauces and catsups
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
202
[Stage Direction]
228
[Stage Direction]
710
[Stage Direction]
100
[Stage Direction]
810
[Stage Direction]
155 Sauces soy
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
28
[Stage Direction]
42
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
44
[Stage Direction]
90d
[Stage Direction]
132 Vegetable, meat and fish pastes
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
29
[Stage Direction]
2
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
103.104,105c
[Stage Direction]
60 Fruits and nuts, pickled and preserved..
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
31
[Stage Direction]
183
[Stage Direction]
13
[Stage Direction]
196
[Stage Direction]
105d
[Stage Direction]
62 Jams, jellies, marmalades
[Stage Direction]
10
[Stage Direction]
70
[Stage Direction]
80
[Stage Direction]
110
[Stage Direction]
60
[Stage Direction]
170
[Stage Direction]
105e
[Stage Direction]
243 Fruits and peels, candied
[Stage Direction]
7
[Stage Direction]
26
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
241
[Stage Direction]
165
[Stage Direction]
406
[Stage Direction]
106
[Stage Direction]
54 Peaches and apricots, canned
[Stage Direction]
12
[Stage Direction]
188
[Stage Direction]
200
[Stage Direction]
268
[Stage Direction]
6
[Stage Direction]
274
[Stage Direction]
3
[Stage Direction]
16
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
11
[Stage Direction]
46
[Stage Direction]
644
[Stage Direction]
690
[Stage Direction]
387
[Stage Direction]
387
[Stage Direction]
57 Fruits, canned, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
75
[Stage Direction]
38
[Stage Direction]
113
[Stage Direction]
271
[Stage Direction]
1
[Stage Direction]
272
[Stage Direction]
171
[Stage Direction]
171
[Stage Direction]
107
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
30
[Stage Direction]
33
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
52
[Stage Direction]
140
[Stage Direction]
256 Sugar svrups and molasses, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
32
[Stage Direction]
18
[Stage Direction]
50
[Stage Direction]
67
[Stage Direction]
67
[Stage Direction]
141
[Stage Direction]
242 Other confections, sweetened
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
27
[Stage Direction]
54
[Stage Direction]
61
[Stage Direction]
103
[Stage Direction]
164
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
4
[Stage Direction]
91
[Stage Direction]
19
[Stage Direction]
110
[Stage Direction]
246 Sugar candies, n.o.p
[Stage Direction]
51
[Stage Direction]
432
[Stage Direction]
483
[Stage Direction]
1,001
[Stage Direction]
178
[Stage Direction]
1,179
[Stage Direction]
Totals
[Stage Direction]
1,094
[Stage Direction]
2,963
[Stage Direction]
4,057
[Stage Direction]
5,621
[Stage Direction]
1,405
[Stage Direction]
7,026
[Stage Direction]
Tuesday, February 24, 1948