1941-02-21

RAILWAY ACT AMENDMENT


[Stage Direction]
Mr. THOMAS REID (New Westminster) moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 15, to amend the Railway Act.
He said: This bill proposes a slight amendment to section 325 of the Railway Act. The purpose of the amendment is to rectify what was omitted when the Railway Act was last amended by parliament in 1925, by granting to the people of British Columbia the same consideration in the matter of freight rates on all grains and flour to the Pacific coast as was given to the other provinces at that time. The adoption of this amendment will not only remove a grave injustice of many years' standing, thereby enabling the people of British Columbia to procure their flour and feed grains at costs comparable to those in other
War Appropriation Bill
[Stage Direction]
provinces, but will also provide a wider market in British Columbia for the surplus wheat held in the three prairie provinces.
Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. A. M. NICHOLSON (Mackenzie):: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. MacKinnon). Has it definitely been decided by the government to proceed with the two million dollar expenditure in connection with the taking of the 1941 census? If so, when will parliament be advised as to the names of the commissioners for the various constituencies?


Hon. J. A. MacKINNON (Minister of Trade and Commerce):: The hon. member
for Mackenzie has just sent me notice that he proposed to ask this question this afternoon. Preliminary arrangements have been made for taking the census this year. I understand that census commissioners have been appointed.
I may say that if the census is proceeded with, enumerators will be selected from all parties, returned men in all cases where available, and women where practicable.


Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):: There is
much virtue in an "if," but what about the "if"? We should have a statement of policy from the government now.


James Angus MacKinnon: I
think I have answered the question as fully as I can at the present moment.



WAR APPROPRIATION BILL


[Stage Direction]
The house resumed from Thursday, February 20, consideration in committee of a resolution to provide sums not exceeding SI.300,000,000 for the year ending March 31, 1942, for the carrying out of measures consequent upon the existence of a state of war-Mr. Usley-Mr. Bradette in the chair.
Mr. POULIOT:: Some little discussion has taken place on this resolution in this house and in this committee since the beginning of the week. What I have not heard of it I have read in Hansard.
I have been in politics for quite a number of years, and amongst the rank and file members of the Liberal party there is only my

friend the hon. member for St. Mary (Mr. Deslauriers) who is my senior. Therefore I can speak with the experience of years in active politics and in debate in this house. On the other side of the house I see my dear old friend the independent member for Comox-Alberni (Mr. Neill), and one of the members from Toronto (Mr. Harris), who is very jovial when he wishes to be, or when he is not frowning. There is the leader of the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation (Mr. Woodsworth), who has always been very kind to me as a colleague. Then in the cabinet itself there is my chief, the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King); there is my beloved leader for the province of Quebec; there are the other ministers from Quebec and the Minister of Mines and Resources (Mr. Crerar), all of whom are senior to me here. Other ministers I have seen come and go, and with one or two exceptions I hope those who sit on the treasury benches to-day will remain there for a long time.
The air is thick and unbreathable. I have never witnessed such backstage intrigue as there is now in high quarters. I am disgusted with the ways in which intrigue is being carried on in the holy name of patriotism wdien we know that behind it is a group of scoundrels, buccaneers, racketeers, pirates, who are trying to get hold of Canada's wealth for their own purposes. It is hateful; and whether it comes from Winnipeg, Vancouver, Toronto or this city of Ottawa it is no less shameful. We do not want to see the few enriched at the expense of the many. We want to see our soldiers well clothed and well armed, given useful weapons with which to gain the victory. We do not want any slackers in uniform to infest some of the branches of the Department of National Defence, such as that of the judge advocate general; and I know wlvat I am saying. I do not hate Tories, but I hate Toryism, especially under the guise of Liberalism.
I do not see my revered chief in his seat to-day, but I am sure he remembers when I was a young member and came to him for assistance in connection with the difficulties confronting me. He has always been very kind. Sometimes I was indignant when he refused me, when I was fighting for the good cause of freedom and liberty for which our soldiers are fighting now on the soil of England. I believe they should be here to protect our families in Canada, in sufficient numbers and properly equipped to give us all a feeling of security. I remember our beloved leader in the province of Quebec when he was still a young lawyer at Riviere du Loup; in those days he, too, was very kind to me. We have fought many battles together. I remember on

War Appropriation Bill
one occasion having dinner with him in Quebec city, on the day he was to give his decision to the electors of Quebec East, Sir Wilfrid Laurier's old seat. The Minister of Justice (Mr. Lapointe) was grieved to have to leave his dear electors of Kamouraska county, who had given him his start in public life.
There are other ministers who have been kind to me, and whom I have supported' against the Tories and against hypocrites of every description. Starting in the west there is my hon. friend the Minister of Pensions and National Health (Mr. Mackenzie), who, I am sure, remembers the days when the Bren gun matter was discussed. One afternoon about three o'clock, after one of the Tories from Toronto had spoken, I rose in my place to defend the minister; and although Hansard does not record it, I was so pleased to hear my chief the Prime Minister say, "hear, hear" when I was giving h ... to the other side. Then there is the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. MacKinnon), who comes from Alberta. At one time he was the lone Liberal member from that province, but thanks to his good work and popularity the Liberal representation from Alberta is much larger now, and it is very brilliant. Then there is our friend the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner), who is a born fighter. Sometimes I do not agree with his policies, but he is a Liberal to the core, and he is the kind I like.
Passing over Manitoba and coming to Ontario, we come to Windsor. I was the Liberal member who spoke on behalf of the party at the nomination of the Minister of Labour (Mr. McLarty), who, I believe, is one of the best members of the cabinet and who has a secretary well worthy of him. They both have the spirit of the old school. Both are broad-minded; both are liberal minded; both are worthy of the confidence that is reposed in them. Then there is my hon. friend the Postmaster General (Mr. Mulock), my friend of all time, my right arm in the civil service committee. We fought and won many battles together, and no one was more pleased than I when he took over the Post Office Department. There is also my hon. friend the Minister of National Revenue (Mr. Gibson), who is doing very well. He is a young man, but his merit has been recognized by his chief and his colleagues, and we are all proud of him.
Coming to the province of Quebec, I have already spoken of my leader there. There is also my hon. friend the Minister of National Defence for Air (Mr. Power). He is all right. He is just as bright and as conscientious as he could be. His only trouble is that sometimes he is betrayed by those under him, but he is clever enough to realize who is responsible and to deal with such matters himself. I remember when we prepared political cam-14873-57
paigns together. Those were the happiest days of my life; I enjoyed them very much, because we had discovered the truth to tell the people. Then there is my hon. friend the Secretary of State (Mr. Casgrain). I am sure one of his proudest recollections is that of the day when he came to Trois Pistoles to protest against the gerrymander which was being carried on by the Tories. At that time he spoke to an enthusiastic crowd of ten thousand people, who were cheering all the Liberals and giving something else to the other party. There is also my hon. friend the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Cardin), who is not well at the present time and to whom we wish a speedy recovery.
Going down to the maritimes, there is my hon. friend the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Michaud). I remember being at Campbell-ton at the side of the Prime Minister, who was then leader of the opposition, supporting the Minister of Fisheries in his first campaign to become a member of this House of Commons. At that time, as I remember, two mass meetings were held simultaneously in the two theatres in the city, and when the leader of the opposition and some other persons tried to express their views only two or three dozen people stayed to listen to them.
Turning now to Nova Scotia we find representing that province two brilliant members of the cabinet. There is the Minister of National Defence for Naval Affairs (Mr. Macdonald), who now occupies the seat of Kingston City, the traditional constituency of Sir John A. Macdonald, and who is doing well in his department because he is an honest man. I pay the same compliment to the Minister of Finance. I remember, in days gone by when the party was in opposition, we were both in the attic. We were neighbours, our rooms were close together, and when I wanted to coin a phrase to damn Mr. Bennett he ivas my Webster.
I rise to congratulate among others the hon. member for Trinity (Mr. Roebuck) upon the excellent speech he made yesterday. He belongs to the old traditional school, and when he speaks he is listened to. When he says something it carries weight.
Let us come now to the tremendous sum which we are asked to vote in this resolution. It represents one-half of the total debt of Canada from confederation until now. It is a tremendous amount; everyone says so. And to meet the expenditures contemplated it has been suggested that we adopt the conclusions of the Sirois report. I am against it. I have published editorials in a French daily, which has the largest circulation in the province of Quebec, in order to set forth my views on the

War Appropriation Bill

dominion government; I was fighting Bennett on behalf of the Liberal party. I do not hesitate to repeat to my hon. friend what I had already said in the house when he was in England. He told us that there should be no party politics in war. Am I right in that? Well, if it is all right for me, it should be all right for him; and if I cannot recommend any one of my electors to an appointment in the militia, I do not see how he can recommend anybody from Barclay's bank, of which he was one of the directors, and put him in the Department of National Defence, as in the case of Mr. Magee, or bring someone into the Department of Munitions and Supply, as was done with Mr. Borden. I do not suppose that only in Barclay's Bank of Canada are there to be found able men. I said that when he was away, and I say it now he is here. He may listen to me if he wishes. If not, it is his own business.
With regard to the Minister of Munitions and Supply (Mr. Howe), I will tell him that when I was fighting Bennett during the five years he was in power; when I was supporting the present Minister of National Defence, who was then the financial pundit of the Liberal party; when I was supporting and applauding the Minister of Munitions and Supply-I would like to see him here, not behind the curtain; he is smoking a pipe; I would like him to come into the chamber and listen to what I am saying-I was not building elevators for R. B. Bennett at different places in Canada. I have no lesson to receive from these gentlemen, because I am fighting the cause of the Liberal party for my chief, the Prime Minister of Canada. I am glad to see the minister being applauded by good Tories. But I am fighting the cause of the Liberal party for my chief in order that he shall not be stabbed in the back after they have burned enough incense under his nose.
With reference to this matter, one of the most serious that we have discussed, it is time to see that there is a master, and that the master should be the Prime Minister of Canada, my chief. We should see also that the working members of the cabinet should not be suffering the weight of intrigue or the trouble of intrigue from any of their colleagues or from anyone holding a responsible position under one of these gentlemen.
I shall be through in a moment, but there is something else I want to say. It is that some of these people have not always been

burning incense under the nose of the Prime Minister. There is the hon. member for Parkdale (Mr. Bruce), who said that the Prime Minister was well qualified for peacetime leadership, but that in war time his qualifications for peace-time leadership disqualified him for war-time leadership. That was said in May last. This is a copy that I have received from Hansard, and since I never correct my speeches and I rely on Hansard, I have this in my hand. He said:
I have been a friend of the Prime Minister of Canada for many years and have admired his many excellent qualities. He was prepared, as few in this country have ever been, by long years of education and training in statecraft for public life. He is a man of high character, a man of peace. I wonder whether these qualities, which are so admirable in times of peace, are not the very qualities which disqualify him now in time of war.
Some hon. Members: No, no.
An hon. Member: Shame.
Mr. Bruce: The Prime Minister's Asquithian attitude of "wait and see", or in other words, let public opinion become crystallized and then follow it, may have been good statecraft for a virile people in ordinary peace times, but it is not the attitude for war time.
Mr. Grant: He was elected in war time.
Mr. Bruce: It is now absolutely imperative that we have a man of action who will lead public opinion instead of following it. This man must have a strong and forceful character, must be one who will not be influenced by personal or private considerations, and will be ready to brush aside red tape and all other obstacles in the way of quick and decisive action. Last evening we had an illustration of party loyalty on the part of the Minister of Finance which was most commendable. When I listened to him I could not help the reflection that history may repeat itself and that what has happened in the mother country might with advantage happen here. The Minister of Finance enjoys the respect and confidence of both sides of this house, as well as that of the people of Canada generally. With his splendid war record, his undoubted ability in finance and law, his well known driving force and character, may I venture to suggest that he is the one man in the Prime Minister's cabinet-
Mr. Martin:	You are trying to undermine
him.
Mr. Bruce: -qualified and equipped to lead a war government. The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom was changed in spite of the fact that Mr. Chamberlain had very strong support in the House of Commons, 418 supporters as against the combined Liberal and Labour strength of 197, but he was forced by pressure of public opinion to hand over the seals of office to Mr. Churchill, a man of great energy and ability in whom the people had confidence.
The minister referred to, who was one of the colleagues of the Prime Minister, did not disavow what was said by the hon. member for Parkdale; he listened to him just as though he had been drinking honey and milk. Afterwards, when I denounced bitterly

War Appropriation Bill
any project of a union or national government, I was interrupted by the hon. gentleman from Prince Edward Island. I proceeded just the same. I said that, in spite of the fact that we are at war, we can make jokes occasionally, and it is not necessary to have long faces all the time.
I have fought against national government and I am fighting it now because I know very well that, as soon as there is no opposition, the sky will be the limit in matters of expenditure, graft, and so on. I do not say that the ministers themselves graft, but I say that they protect people who do graft. I can tell them what is being done at St. Paul 1'Ermite at the expense of either England or Canada. Nobody knows who is responsible, but the war expenditure was supposed to be $5,000,000, and now it is $25,000,000. People are stealing every piece of material they can find there, and the foremen close their eyes. It is a scandal. I do not say that to denounce the government; I say it to denounce the scandals themselves, and it comes from a Liberal. The leader of the opposition was not astute enough to do that himself. He probably knew of what was happening; everybody knew of it; but he continued to praise those men, saying that they were marvellous men, high calibre men.
And now, what are we to have? We are supposed to have a union government; with Arthur Meighen; with a gentleman from Vancouver; with Stewart, the controller, the head of the Tories in Nova Scotia; all these people will come in, and when they are in they will stab our chief in the back. That is the programme, and I wanted to bring these matters to light in a very clear and unequivocal way, in order that there shall be no misunderstanding or mistake about it.
I have stood firmly for the Liberal party all my life. My father did so, when he was elected with Sir Wilfrid Laurier in 1896, when he denounced those who tried to stand in his way when he wanted some progress for his own constituents or for the country in general. I am true to the traditions of my grandfather, who voted against confederation because he found in it disguised unification. I am true to the traditions of my greatgrandfather, who voted for the ninety-two resolutions, and who also gave his seat of Rimouski to Baldwin when he was defeated in York. Those were the Liberals of other times. When my father was fighting his way into parliament there were very few Liberals in the province of Quebec, and the propaganda they were using were the speeches of Blake, Cartwright and Mills, both in English and translated into French. That was the
Liberal food which was being given to the people of the province of Quebec. I wonder what those great men of the past would say if they were here to-day. I am sure they would say: "Pouliot, you are right. What you are saying now is most unpleasant for you to say, but it is your duty to say it in order that the country may not go to the dogs."
I was born a British subject-


The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Bradette):: I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member, but his time is up.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Go ahead.


Jean-François Pouliot: My father was a British subject, and a loyal British subject. My grandfather was a loj'al British subject and so were all my ancestors from the time that Canada was given away by France to England. Now that our king is the king of Canada, I am proud to be a loyal Canadian subject, and my son and grandson, like me, will be loyal British subjects.
So far as those gentlemen of whom I have spoken are concerned, I consider them so small that I shall pay no more attention to them. On the other hand, my interest in the state is supreme, and I think it is my duty, not only as a Liberal but as a good Canadian who is true to the best British traditions, to speak my mind freely in this house in order that the members who did not know what was happening behind the scenes might know it now.


Mr. RALSTON:: Mr. Chairman, I do not propose to detain the committee for very long. I regret that my hon. friend (Mr. Pouliot) has seen fit to make a vicious attack upon me. He is quite entitled to do that if he sees fit, but it does seem to me that it is not entirely consistent with the professions of friendship he has made, a friendship which I have endeavoured, during my period in public life and all the time I have been in this house, to maintain with him.
I do not propose to permit the discussion of the resolution before the committee to be delayed by any personal references on my part. I consider this resolution to involve the most serious matters with which this country has had to deal since confederation. At the time of the debate last session to which my hon. friend referred, exactly the same situation existed. I was dealing then with an appropriation bill of $700,000,000 and was endeavouring to get the house into committee to consider it. I did not think it necessary at that time to beat my breast and proclaim my loyalty to my leader. I think I have endeavoured to show that by my actions during my lifetime
War Appropriation Bill

Nor do I need to take the time of the committee in referring to my ancestors. My hon. friend can go back and refer to his if he wants to. I have, however, rather distinct recollections of my own ancestry in the ranks of Liberalism, if that is of any interest regarding loyalty to my leader. I only want to say this, that I have been true to my leader. I have endeavoured, in season and out of season, to support him not only when he was in power but when he was out of power. I have endeavoured to do my duty by my party and by the country as I saw it, and it does not lie in the mouth of any hon. gentleman in this house to make the reflections which my hon. friend has seen fit to make to-day. I am not in the habit of proclaiming my loyalty either to my country or to my leader or to my party. I endeavour to make actions speak louder than words.
May I allude, Mr. Chairman, to two other references which my hon. friend has made. He has referred to Mr. Victor Sifton, who happens to be master-general of the ordnance at the present time. Mr. Sifton, a gentleman from Manitoba, came down here as a citizen of this country to assist Mr. Philip Chester, who had agreed to take for a limited time the position of master-general of the ordnance. Mr. Sifton came down here to assist him in connection with the reorganization of that branch of the department in order that we might attain the greatest possible efficiency in the obtaining of supplies which were all important. Mr. Sifton assisted Mr. Chester, and Mr. Chester gave us his valuable business experience in connection with that work. After about three months, Mr. Chester felt that he was able to leave that office in such shape that he believed it would carry on efficiently. Before he left, he recommended in the strongest possible terms that Mr. Sifton be made master-general of the ordnance. Hon. gentlemen will understand that there might have been some heart-burning on the part of military officers in connection with that appointment. I want to say to the house that it was only after the gravest consideration that Mr. Sifton was appointed. He was appointed because of Mr. Chester's recommendation, and because of what I knew of his personal character and ability. I am glad to say that his appointment was universally accepted by the military officers with whom he is associated. Mr. Sifton is carrying on as any patriotic citizen would want to do, and without salary and without expenses of any kind, giving his services to this country as master-general of the ordnance. I want to say of Mr. Sifton, because he cannot speak for himself, that I have the highest possible confidence in him and believe that his adminis-
(Mr. Ralston.]
tration will be for the great benefit of Canada, particularly in connection with that important branch of our undertaking.
With regard to Colonel Magee, president of Barclay's bank, I asked Colonel Magee to come to Ottawa. My hon. friend is quite right in that. I personally asked Colonel Magee to come to Ottawa to assist me as senior executive assistant. He came here and has been here ever since. I want to say that I would be greatly surprised if Colonel Magee has given my hon. friend the slightest ground for the attack which he has made on him to-day. I believe he has met all members courteously, has endeavoured to give the very best attention which could possibly be given to the many important matters with w'hich he has had to deal and has been sympathetic and highly efficient in all these matters. I know he has done his level best as a patriotic and extremely capable Canadian to promote the interests of our dominion at this time when we are at war.
That is all I have to say with regard to those matters.
This matter of $200 a day-


Richard Burpee Hanson: May I
suggest to the minister that he say a word on behalf of the judge advocate-general in view of the vicious attack which was made upon him.


James Layton Ralston: I did not know that my hon. friend had also singled out the judge advocate-general. The judge advocate-general has been in the department for a good many years; he was there when I was there before. I know that Brigadier Orde has carried out his duties as a Canadian should, and there is, I think, no man in Canada who is so well versed as he in military law and in the practices of the department which requires expert and skilled advice.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Thank you.


James Layton Ralston: The S200 a day has been mentioned. Indeed, it has been mentioned so often that I think hon. members must be tired of hearing about it. But this is the first opportunity I have had to mention it.
I was asked and was pressed to accept the position of counsel to the grain commission three years ago. This was after I was out of public life and had retired to private practice where I felt my duty to my family required me to be. I accepted that position and for my services indicated the same fee which had been paid to other legal gentlemen in connection with commissions. I could not accept less because I was giving my whole time to the commission and my firm were entitled to my services. The money was paid to my firm, and my share distributed to me, and their

War Appropriation Bill
share to my partners, and I have no apologies to make to my hon. friend or to anyone else with regard to that matter. The fee was regarded as reasonable under the circumstances, having regard to the fees which were paid to professional men. It was absolutely necessary *that the fee should be paid in order that my firm might be even partly reimbursed for the loss of my services for that time, and perhaps I may be pardoned if I say that I endeavoured to give the country the very best service I could in connection with the work of the commission.
That is all I have to say at this time in regard to the matter to which my hon. friend referred.


Richard Burpee Hanson: I cannot
refrain from offering a word of congratulation to the Minister of National Defence upon the statement he has just concluded. I do not know that any defence was necessary. It occurred to me that perhaps dignified silence would have been as good an answer as any that could be made. The minister in his judgment thought otherwise and I am not going to quarrel with the position he took. If the people of Canada could look in upon this House of Commons this afternoon and hear what we listened to for forty minutes and have an appreciation of just what it means, I wonder what they would think. I suggest that this sort of thing must cease in the House of Commons of Canada, or we shall be in disrepute. So far as I am concerned I offer to the government any authority which my position carries with it to help maintain the dignity of this house, and if possible to raise its position in the estimation of the Canadian people. I think we all agree that we should do this, and I offer my support wholeheartedly to the leader of the government in that regard. I conclude by again congratulating the minister on the statement he has made.


Mr. ILSLEY:: Perhaps I can at this point
give some information that was asked for last night. The hon. member for Lake
Centre asked to be supplied with this information. He said:
I should like to know from the minister how much it is anticipated will be advanced during the next fiscal year.
That is, advanced to private companies. The estimate submitted by the Department of Munitions and Supply to the Department of Finance for capital assistance to private companies for the next fiscal year is $58,858,487.
The hon. member also said:
I should like to know the largest amount advanced to any one company last year, and the name of that company.
The records of the comptroller's branch show that the largest amount actually paid to any company during the past fiscal year was the sum of $6,946,241.75 to the John Inglis Company Limited of Toronto. There is nothing in the information I have here to show whether that amount was wholly or partly paid on account of the Canadian government or the British government. I understand that the Minister of Munitions and Supply has that information, or at least he has the information as to the commitments made in respect of the Canadian government and the commitments made on behalf of the British government.
The hon. member for Acadia (Mr. Quelch) asked for quite extensive information. I have the information here; it covers several pages and to read it would weary the committee.


Richard Burpee Hanson: What
does that relate to?


James Lorimer Ilsley: To borrowings-how much
has been borrowed from the public, how much from the chartered banks, the rate of interest, and so on. Perhaps it would serve the hon. member's purpose if I put it on Hansard so that he can look at it, and then if he wishes to discuss it he can do so on the bill, or later in this debate if we do not get beyond the resolution to-day.


Mr. QUELCH:: That is satisfactory to me.


James Lorimer Ilsley: The statement follows:
Dominion of Canada Bond Issues Since Outbreak of War
Public Issues
Issue date-Maturity date February 1, 1940-February 1, 1948-52....
October 1, 1940-October 1, 1952	
War Savings Certificates	
Non-interest Bearing Certificates* **..
Interest rate	Price	Amount issued* 3i%	100 00	$250,000,000+* 3 %	98 75	324,945,700+. 3 %	*	45,565,330loo 66	5,534,134

* Maturity value issued to February 20, 1941.
** Total issued to February 21, 1941.
f Including amount of conversions, which are also shown in table of redemptions below.
War Appropriation Bill

t	Increase	 $402,829,384
Note.-Of this amount of $402,829,384, there is an offset in the decrease of $253,507,331 of gold and foreign exchange sold to the Foreign Exchange Control Board.
Note. The returns of the chartered banks and of the Bank of Canada do not show separately the holdings of dominion and provincial securities.
It is not possible to isolate the influence of these borrowings upon chartered bank deposits because bank deposits are affected by many other factors as well, such as changes in the volume of note circulation, current loans, etc. It is, however, possible to give figures show-ing the increase m deposits since the war began and in the volume of notes held by the public, which is the other major constituent of the total volume of money.

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Monthly Averages in Millions of Dollars
August, 1939 December, 1940 Increase
Canadian deposits of chartered banks	
2,532	2,718	186Bank of Canada and chartered bank note circulation*..	207	347	140_________ 2,739	3,065	326
* Bank of Canada notes in the hands of the public plus total chartered bank note circulation. Bank holdings of chartered bank notes are, however, small and showed virtually no change over the period in question.
The December figures are the most recent available but the $250 millions of notes which the dominion government has sold to the banks since that time would, other things being equal, increase Canadian deposits by the same amount.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Last evening I asked the Minister of National Defence for Air, in the absence of his colleague the Minister of National Defence, for the figures in relation to the thirty-day military training plan. Could I be supplied with those figures?


James Layton Ralston: There was a slight confusion with regard to what my hon. friend asked for. He mentioned the thirty-day training plan, and then he mentioned the National Resources Mobilization Act. What he asked first was the amount spent in the present fiscal year under the National Resources Mobilization Act in connection with the thirty-day training period. Then last night he broke it down somewhat and asked for further particulars. He asked for the amount allocated to the scheme out of the 1940 appropriation, to be spent (a) by the Department of National Defence, and (b) by War Services; also how far the activities of War Services go, and the expenditure in that respect before these men are handed over to National Defence for training.
I think the best I can do this afternoon on the information I have here is to lay on the table of the house and send to my hon. friend a copy of two statements. One is the expenditures paid or incurred under the National Resources Mobilization Act to December 31, 1940.


Richard Burpee Hanson: By what department?


James Layton Ralston: National Defence. The second is the cost of ordnance stores issued in connection with the National Resources Mobilization Act.
With regard to National War Services, I know what my hon. friend has said and I understand he has already received from National War Services some statements in regard to expenditure incurred. The point he made last night was that transportation did not seem to be included.


Richard Burpee Hanson: They told me they had not the figures.


James Layton Ralston: I have just spoken to my colleague the Minister of National War Services and I think he will be able to complete that if there are further figures to be given.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Could the minister answer the question asked last night, whether the Ministry of National War Services pays the transportation up to the time these men are handed to the training centre, and the transportation back, or is the latter included in National Defence? We do not want it in twice.


James Layton Ralston: I must say I had not noticed my hon. friend's question until I came in. I had the impression that National Defence pays transportation from the camps; I should like to verify that. The amount in the statement which my hon. friend will see is something like S197,000 for transportation. That amount has been paid or incurred by National Defence, and when my hon. friend gets the particulars from National War Services the question will be answered.
The hon. member for Cumberland asked for the total expenditures or total payments made regarding the Debert military camp and airport.


Mr. BLACK (Cumberland):: I said I
should like the total expenditures and total commitments-I am quoted as saying "pay* ments". What I asked for was the total expenditures and total commitments.


James Layton Ralston: I thought my hon. friend might have that in mind. The situation is that it is difficult, and perhaps misleading, to attempt to give total commitments. Total expenditures, particularly for labour, which my hon. friend will recognize is a very large part of this, are returned pretty promptly; that is to say the labour is paid for by cheque from Halifax and the amount can be obtained promptly. With regard to materials there is some delay, as my hon. friend intimated last night. There are at least two reasons for that delay, and perhaps others. One is the fact that sometimes the receipt



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for the actual material, as received by the engineer, is not forwarded as promptly as it should be to the paying or checking authority. There has been a heavy burden of work on the engineer. The other is the fact that sometimes-and here I mention the department of my colleague the Minister of Munitions and Supply-the notice of acceptance of the tender, which contains particulars of the material which is to be supplied and the price for which the contract has been let, does not go forward in sufficient time to be received by the engineer on the ground, and he has to wait until he receives it in order that he may check the material received with the specifications which were required in accordance with the acceptance of tender; so that there may be some delay in that way.
I think the only practical thing to give my hon. friend is the actual payments which have been made up to a fixed date, I will say up to January 31; I think I can give that to him. I should like him to understand that commitments can only be estimates in most cases. There are two classes of commitments. There is such a thing as a commitment made when the article has been actually bought but payment has not been made. In that case we know definitely what is the price, but generally that is the smallest of the two classes. In the other class we put forward what we call a contract demand on the Department of Munitions and Supply, asking them to purchase certain articles for us. We have estimated that the cost may be so much. Whether that will be the cost or whether the cost will be greater or less depends on the tenders received by the Department of Munitions and Supply.
Richard Burpee Hanson: That is
hardly a commitment.


James Layton Ralston: It can be a commitment only for the purpose of endeavouring, as best we can, to have the treasury officer note something opposite that particular vote as the estimated dollar obligation which will be incurred when that transaction is finally completed. Therefore I would prefer not to put those contract demands on record. I could do it easily enough, I suppose, but I do not think it would give my hon. friend very much information.


Percy Chapman Black: Along with the actual disbursements as of January 31 would the minister be prepared to give an estimate of the amount his department believes will be required in order to complete the whole project at Debert, in order that we might have the total contemplated expenditure on that whole project?


Richard Burpee Hanson: You do not mean the pay of the soldiers; you mean the cost of building the camp?


Percy Chapman Black: Just the cost of developing the camp itself.


James Layton Ralston: I do not mind giving an estimate. My hon. friend understands what an estimate is. They do their best, but as my hon. friend can understand services may be added afterwards which throw the estimate out, and naturally I do not want any reflections on the engineers because their target has been overshot or they have not succeeded in keeping within the estimate given.


Richard Burpee Hanson: With that reservation understood, could the minister give the figure?


James Layton Ralston: Yes; I have a figure in mind now. I can tell my hon. friend now that from the information I get the Debert camp may cost $5,500,000.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Does that include the airport?


James Layton Ralston: No, that does not include the airport.


Richard Burpee Hanson: How much more for that?


James Layton Ralston: The airport, of course, is in addition. It must be understood, of course, that with the possibility of changes in requirements such a figure has to be more in the nature of what one of the officers in my department calls a "guesstimate" instead of an estimate. We try however to see that it is at least an intelligent guess based on whatever probabilities can be reasonably foreseen.


Mr. POWER:: I have the figures with respect to the Debert airport, with the same reservation that was made by the Minister of National Defence. The estimated sum required for the buildings at Debert is $829,517. I have not the figure in connection with the runways, but I would say they would cost probably another $150,000 or $200,000.


Richard Burpee Hanson: That is about $1,000,000 altogether.


Charles Gavan Power: Yes, I would say about a million. It may be that Debert will be still further developed during the course of the coming summer, in which case the expenditure will be very much greater. The buildings are completed; the runways will be completed about April 1.


Richard Burpee Hanson: That
includes all the hangars?

War Appropriation Bill


Charles Gavan Power: Yes, the buildings include the hangars.


James Layton Ralston: Just to complete the matter referred to by the leader of the opposition, in connection with the expenses paid or incurred under the National Resources Mobilization Act, and for the benefit of hon. members, I should like to place this statement on Hansard:
Department of National Defence
Expenditures paid or incurred under National Resources Mobilization Act to December 31, 1940
Expenditures paid or incurred
Non-recurring	Recurring
Civil salaries and wages	 $	14.621 83
Pay and allowances	 5 889.784 54
Travel, transport and freight	 197[o76 43
Operating expenses of properties	 560 943 33
Construction and repairs	$9,126,607 73	138i983 87
Clothing and miscellaneous stores (laundry)	 256.128 99
Mechanical and water transport	 32.807	00
Supplies, food and forage	 1 508564 11
Medical stores and services	 ' 82*819 00
Dental stores and services	 10.287	00
Printing and stationery	 11 615 16
Sundries	 30]315 00
$9,126,607 73	$8,733,646 26
Statement of Cost of Ordnance Stores issued in connection with the National Resources Mobilization Act to December 31, 1940
Estimated cost Non-recurring Recurring
Clothing issued to trainees	$2,700,600	$ 610,800
Clothing issued to permanent training staff	 539,000
Web equipment, water bottles, respirators and anti-gas stores	 711,350
Barrack and miscellaneous stores	 1,020,000
Total
$4,970,950	$ 610,800
The committee will understand that one cannot separate the cost of the so-called thirty day training scheme from the cost of the four months plan; that is to say, the same equipment, the same buildings, the same staff and the same ordnance stores and other items will be used. We have endeavoured as far as possible to make a rough separation by means of the classifications "recurring" and "nonrecurring."


Richard Burpee Hanson: I used
that only as a descriptive term.
with regard to transportation, to which my hon. friend referred, is only $87.43, but the minister tells me that this was the amount actually paid out to December 31. The commitment in this respect is $170,000.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Does that include the cost of landing trainees at the
centres?


James Layton Ralston: Yes.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Where is shown the cost of sending them back home?


James Layton Ralston: These establishments are available for whatever training plan may be carried on.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Then there are the figures from the Department of National War Services.


James Layton Ralston: The Minister of National War Services gives me this statement of payments by his department. The amount shown


James Layton Ralston: That is in the statement 1 just gave, $197,076.43.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Then what we were speculating about last night is correct; War Services delivers them to the training centres and National Defence pays their way home, so there is no duplication.


James Layton Ralston: These figures are as
follows:
908
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Department of National War Services Recruiting
Expenditure to December 31, 1940 Administration at Ottawa-
Salaries	$	5,008 58Printing and	stationery	
1,292	11Telegrams	
974	44Sundry	
927	87
Administration at administrative divisions-
Salaries	$	96.462 82Fees and allowances	
2,527	00Travelling expenses	
1,861	26Telegrams	
824	90Telephones	
1,581	01Sundry	
1,081	80Medical	Transportation. Meals	$	8,193 00

To that must be added the commitment for transportation, $170,000.


Richard Burpee Hanson: I am glad to have this information. I shall study it and return to t'he question a little later. I may ask the minister for a further break-down, but I am obliged for what he has given so far.


Mr. DIEFENBAKER:: With further reference to the question which the Minister of Finance has just answered. I should like to know how many private companies in Canada have received advances during the past year, the names of the companies to whom the advances have been made, and the amounts.


Mr. HOWE:: Does the hon. member wish to have the names on Hansard?


John George Diefenbaker: I should think so.


Clarence Decatur Howe: It is rather a long list; it would take half an hour to read it.
Alberta Nitrogen Company, ammonia, Calgary. The estimated expenditure is $10,110,000, and there is a second commitment with the same company for $207,750.


Percy Chapman Black: Are these
figures capital advances as opposed to what last evening were referred to as advances for operating purposes?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes. My hon. friend has
received from the Minister of Finance actual payments; I am giving now a list of all commitments the government has both for its own account and for British account for capital expenditures.


John George Diefenbaker: Will the minister divide them as between dominion and United Kingdom accounts?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes. The two expenditures I have given represent a joint account, one-third Canadian and two-thirds United Kingdom.
The next is Algorna Steel Corporation Limited. There is a commitment of $527,333, United Kingdom.
Aluminum Goods Limited, Toronto, $4,500, Canadian.
Anaconda American Brass, Limited, New Toronto, $2,290,000, Canadian. There is a second commitment with the same company of $150,000, also Canadian.
Atlas Steels, Limited, Welland, $349,312. This is a joint account, 77 per cent Canadian and 23 per cent United Kingdom. There is another for Atlas Steels of $4,273; another for $171,667, and another for $161,000.


Mr. MacNICOL:: Is that the Atlas steel company?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes. These latter are joint, 50 per cent United Kingdom and 50 per cent
Canadian.
Goldie and McCulloch Company, Limited, Galt, $246,957, United Kingdom.
W. H. Banfield and Son, Limited, Toronto, $128,325, United Kingdom.
Barber Die Castings, Limited, Hamilton, $2,124, United Kingdom.
Wallace Barnes Company, Limited, Hamilton, $1,841, United Kingdom.
Bata Shoe Company, Frankford, Ontario, $28,050, Canadian.
I could give the purposes for which these expenditures are made. Does the hon. member wish to have that information?

War Appropriation Bill


John George Diefenbaker: It would add to the value of the information.


Clarence Decatur Howe: There is another for the Bata Shoe Company, Frankford, for gauges for -5 inch twin mounting, mark IV guns, $136,600, United Kingdom account.
Beatty Brothers, Limited Fergus, 25-pounder primer No. 1, mark II, $61,108, United Kingdom account.
Bendik-Eclipse of Canada Limited, Windsor, 40 mm. shell tracer No. 7 and for tracer No. 12, mark I, $325,000, United Kingdom.
John Bertram and Sons, Limited, Dundas, machine tool capacity, $1,220,000, Canadian account.
Boeing Aircraft of Canada, Limited, $87,698, Canadian account; another for $29,940, Canadian account; another for $1,442,000, Canadian account; another for $438,000, Canadian account; and another for $27,400, Canadian account. That is the list for Boeing, all for the manufacture of aeroplanes and for overhauling work.
British Aeroplane Engines, Limited, Montreal, overhauling of Rolls Royce engines, $6,949, Canadian.


John Ritchie MacNicol: Is that for plant or
work?


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is for additional equipment in the plant.
Brown Boggs Foundry and Machine Company, Limited, Hamilton. This was for assistance in obtaining machinery, and the amount is $65,000, which is repayable. I understand it has been repaid, so that it is not really a capital expenditure.
Acme Screw and Gear Company Limited, 27 and 28 pistols for aircraft bombs, $457,155, Canadian account. There is another for the same company for 40 mm. shell fuse, 251, $135,726, United Kingdom account, and another for $959,655, United Kingdom account.
Canadian Airways Limited, Winnipeg, aeroplane engine overhauling depot, $19,201, Canadian account. There is another for the engine overhaul depot, Winnipeg, the amount being $5,700, Canadian account.
Canadian Car and Foundry Company, Limited, Montreal, 9 * 2 inch Howitzer shell machinery, $1,610,691, United Kingdom account.
Canadian Car and Foundry Company, overhaul depot, $9,100, Canadian account. For a shell filling plant, $11,390,272, United Kingdom account.
Canadian Dredge and Dock Company, Toronto, crane facilities, $7,300, Canadian account.
Canadian Elevator Equipment Company, Toronto, gauges, $20,850, Canadian account.
Another contract with the same firm for 2-inch, mark II motors and spare parts, $40,420, Canadian account.
Canadian General Electric Company, Peterborough, 2-pounder gun carriages, $3,045,417, joint account, 50 per cent British and 50 per cent Canadian. Another for 3-7 anti-aircraft mountings, $5,144,632, joint account, 50 per cent Canadian and 50 per cent United Kingdom.
Canadian Locomotive Company, Kingston,
2-	pounder, mark VIII mountings, $220,000, United Kingdom account.
Canadian Motor Lamp Company Limited, Windsor, 25-pounder cartridge cases, $453,764, United Kingdom account.
Canadian National Railways, Montreal, 12-pounder, mark V guns and mechanisms, naval, $1,315,330, United Kingdom. Canadian National Railways, Winnipeg, 4-5 and 5-5 gun carriages, $635,000, United Kingdom.
Canadian Pacific Railway, Ogden shops, Alberta, 12-pounder guns and mark IX mountings, naval, $2,485,784, United Kingdom account. Canadian Pacific Railway, Montreal, tanks, $1,170,000 , 62 per cent Canadian and 38 per cent United Kingdom.
Canadian Tube and Steel Products Limited, Montreal, 4-5 howitzer shells, forging and machining, $411,300, United Kingdom account.
Canadian Vickers Limited, Montreal, flying boats, $348,446. Canadian account.
Canadian Westinghouse Limited, Hamilton,
3-	7 anti-aircraft guns and loose barrels, $7,951,910, joint account, 50 per cent British and 50 per cent Canadian. Another with the same company for torpedo engines, $25,000, United Kingdom account.
Canada Wire and Cable Company, Montreal, brass strips, discs and rods, $5,200,000, Canadian account.
Chemical Construction Corporation, Niagara Falls, ammonia, ammonium nitrate and special chemicals, $14,535,431, United Kingdom account.
My hon. friend will realize that I have not reached the bottom of the "C's". Does he really want this information now?


Richard Burpee Hanson: This is the only time and place that we can get it. I am not asking the minister to read them all, provided he can put them on Hansard. We would then have an opportunity to study this information. I serve notice upon the government that we intend to go into all these expenditures.


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is quite all right, but it is a little hard on the voice to read them. Does my hon. friend wish me to continue, or shall I put them on Hansardl
War Appropriation Bill


Richard Burpee Hanson: I do not want the minister to read them if they can be placed on Hansard.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I cannot put this on Hansard, but I shall have a list made up which can be placed upon Hansard.


Richard Burpee Hanson: We would not be able to close the committee because we would not know what we were going to get. The fact is that the information is not in the shape in which it could be placed upon Hansard.


Mr. LAPOINTE (Quebec East):: This is only one part of the resolution.


Richard Burpee Hanson: There will be a lot more.


Ernest Lapointe: We could go on with something else.


Richard Burpee Hanson: We started on this.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Cockshutt Plow Company, Limited, Brantford, 25-pounder shell machining, $313,288, United Kingdom account.
Consolidated Mining and Smelting Company, Trail, British Columbia, ammonia, $1,162,500, United Kingdom account. The same company, ammonia and ammonium nitrate, $7,260,830, United Kingdom account.
Corman Engineering Company, Toronto, gears, $1,000, Canadian account. Corman Engineering Company, Toronto, gauges, $12,500, Canadian account.
Crane Limited, Montreal, 40 mm. shells, $155,138, United Kingdom account.
Defence Industries Limited, Nobel, cordite, TNT, and rifle cordite, $10,572,800, United Kingdom account.
Defence Industries Limited, desalaberry island, Quebec, cannon powder, rifle powder, DNT, TNT and tetryl, $18,670,973, United Kingdom.
Defence Industries Limited, Shawinigan Falls, hexachlorethane, $284,375, United Kingdom account.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Is that a subsidiary of Canadian Industries Limited?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes, of the war industries. They have been segregated under Defence Industries Limited.
Defence Industries Limited, Winnipeg, cordite, $9,035,000, United Kingdom account.
Defence Industries Limited, Pickering, Ontario, and Ste. Therese, ammunition filling plants, $15,000,000, joint account, Jths United Kingdom, Jth Canadian.


John Ritchie MacNicol: Is the plant at Pickering in operation?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Not yet. Ground was broken about a month ago and it takes a little longer than that to get into operation.


John Ritchie MacNicol: My information was that the ground had only been broken.


Richard Burpee Hanson: This is
an advance.


John Ritchie MacNicol: The whole amount would not be an advance.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Defence Industries Limited, Beloeil, Quebec, propellants for test purposes, $75,000, Canadian account.
Defence Industries Limited, Windsor, Ont., for carbamite, $200,000, Canadian account, with some United Kingdom participation.
Defence Industries, Limited, Montreal, -303 small arms ammunition, detonators, fuses, gains, $8,619,413, for United Kingdom account. In that case there has been an accountable advance for working capital to the top limit of $3,350,000.
Defence Industries, Limited, Verdun, P.Q., small arms ammunition, $675,000, United Kingdom account.
DeHavilland Aircraft Company of Canada, Limited, West Toronto, aeroplane fuselages, $130,000, Canadian account. The same company, the principal overhaul depot, $136,239, Canadian account. The same company, manufacture of Anson fuselages, machinery and assembly, $767,875, Canadian account.
Dominion Bridge Company Limited, Montreal, 3-7 and 4-inch shell cartridge cases, $83,850, Canadian account. Dominion Bridge Company, Limited, Montreal-


Richard Burpee Hanson: Would the minister allow me a question? Was it necessary to make that advance to a great company like the Dominion Bridge? Surely they can finance anything. Or is it more advantageous to have it done so? It may ease matters for the minister if he would just give us a brief explanation. Why does the Dominion Bridge company require this, or was it thrust upon them? I do not suppose it was thrust upon them. They are a big corporation; they can go to the banks and get all the money they *want. Is it easier for them to do it that way than to take the money out of their own treasury or go to their own bankers, or what?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I may say that we try to place all the business we can with plants which furnish their own facilities. We exhaust that possibility first. We thep try to induce private plants to install the facilities that we require; and arrangements have been made through the establishment of the war contracts depreciation board to permit acceler-

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ated depreciation on capital expenditures for war purposes. We exhaust that possibility. But where machinery has no possible postwar use, as in the case of shell-making machinery, we have adopted a policy, in agreement with the British government, that we take our depreciation at the start, pay for the machinery, and get our output at cost. Particularly where joint account is involved we have largely followed that procedure.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Would the minister elaborate on output at cost? Just how would that be referable, say, to this advance to the Dominion Bridge company?


Clarence Decatur Howe: This machinery is segregated in a separate building. It is operated as a separate operation. We have a treasury officer in the plant, and the price of the product is kept in proportion to the cost plus and agreed profit.


Richard Burpee Hanson: So you get
it at cost, and they get a small profit?


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is it.


Richard Burpee Hanson: What is the size of the profit? Two per cent, or five?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Usually, about three per cent, depending on the size of the operation. Obviously, for a small operation, the percentage must be higher, and for a large operation it is often lower.


Richard Burpee Hanson: That
answers the question.


Mr. COCKERAM:: Is a treasury officer employed in every one of these plants?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes, a treasury cost accountant. The cost accountants are employed by the treasury, not by the Department of Munitions and Supply.


Richard Burpee Hanson: That is for the protection of the treasury?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Thank you.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Another, for the Dominion Bridge company, for 25-pound shell cartridge cases, $350,175. Another, for the same company, 3-7 shell cartridge cases, SI,505,195. For the Dominion Bridge company, Montreal, 2-pounder guns, mark VIII, $4,000,000, United Kingdom account.
Dominion Engineering company, Lachine, for manufacture of machine tools, $800,000, Canadian account. Another, for the same company, 6-pounder anti-aircraft guns, $6,232,000, Canadian account. Another, for the same company, for 2-pounder mark VII mountings, S180,000, for United Kingdom account. Another, for 2-pounder anti-tank guns and
mechanisms, mark X, $4,435,507; that is 25 per cent Canadian and 75 per cent United Kingdom.


John Ritchie MacNicol: May I ask the minister a question there? In the case of a large amount like that-and I have in mind some other amounts which were mentioned a few moments ago-to factories to which large additions are being erected, after the war is over those additions will still be there. How is that going to be taken care of? Does the government pay for the full addition to the plant-bricks, mortar, steel, roofing and so forth, including the machinery in the plant; and then, after the war, while the machinery will belong to the government, what about the buildings or the additions to the buildings?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I may say that in practically all cases, before we will build an extension to a plant we acquire the land on which the extension is built; we build the building; we own the building and the land on which it stands, for such disposition as we may care to make after the war.


John Ritchie MacNicol: In the ease of one plant
I have in mind, a very, very large plant whiel} has been allotted a considerable sum of money, the addition, while large, is small in comparison with the whole plant. That addition was built on land belonging to the company. Does the government acquire the land which at present belongs to the company, and then build an addition up against the main plant?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes. It is a condition of
building on company land that the land, on which we build, with suitable access to it, is deeded or leased to the government for a nominal sum for a considerable period of time. If my hon. friend will mention the plant he has in mind, I think I can tell himi the arrangement.


John Ritchie MacNicol: I am sure that the minister can, but I do not want to mention the plant.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Dominion Forge and Stamping Company, Limited, Walkerville, 25-pounder shell forgings, $93,600, United Kingdom account.
Dominion Foundries and Steel Company, Limited, Hamilton, heat-treating and straightening armour plate, $723,535, Canadian account. Another for Dominion Foundries and Steel Company, Hamilton, 3-7 loose barrel forgings, $994,405, joint account, 50 per cent British and 50 per cent Canadian.
Dominion Rubber Company, Limited, Kitchener, toolings for tires, $163,469. Also, with the same company, tool-produced special sand tires, $67,632, for United Kingdom account.
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Dominion Steel and Coal Corporation, New Glasgow, 4-inch single mountings, and 4-inch twin mountings, naval, $3,500,000, for United Kingdom account.


Richard Burpee Hanson: What is
the date of that?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I cannot give the exact date
offhand, but it was about October, perhaps earlier, September.
Dunlop Tire & Rubber Goods Company, Limited, Toronto, gunfire and brake control equipment and relay controlled valves, $44,000 for Canadian account. Another contract with the same company for military tires, $8,825, for Canadian account.


John Ritchie MacNicol: Is that the Dunlop company in Toronto?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes. Another for the Dunlop company, Toronto, for tires, $6,195, for Canadian account. Another with the same company for $3,200, and another for $148,500, both for Canadian account.


Mr. HAZEN:: Were all these amounts
advanced in the last fiscal year?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No. The amounts actually
advanced in cash were given by the minister. They represent not more than 15 or 20 per cent of the total.


Richard Burpee Hanson: But they
are made out of the war appropriation of 1940, are they not?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes, but I am giving now
the total commitments, what we are committed to on capital account.


John Ritchie MacNicol: For a particular
function?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Capital account for producing munitions of war.


John Ritchie MacNicol: It does not necessarily
mean that it has all been advanced.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Oh, no.


Mr. HARRIS (Danforth):: Does it include some working capital too?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No; these are purely for
capital account.


Douglas King Hazen: How much has actually been advanced?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The minister gave that figure a short time ago, $48,749,000. The totals I am giving now represent $112,013,323 for British account, $88,651,576 for Canadian account, and $106,453,775 for joint account, making a total commitment of $307,118,674.


Mr. GREEN:: Is that to be the complete programme, or are there further commitments?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Those are the commitments to date. We get requests from time to time from the United Kingdom for additional capacity here, and if it is possible to provide capacity here we go ahead and provide it.


Richard Burpee Hanson: That is
provided for by this resolution?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


Howard Charles Green: But this is intended to be the bulk of the programme, is it?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No, I would not say that.
It is the commitments we have actually made to date. We have other things in contemplation, other things under the programme referred to here. We have certain commitments which we are studying in connection with working out plastics.


Percy Chapman Black: Does the list from which the minister is reading include commitments or advances for industries or establishments wholly government owned, or is it assistance or advances only to privately owned enterprises?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No. You mean assistance to wholly owned government companies?


Percy Chapman Black: Yes.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Those are in the nature of a revolving fund. There is no government company which itself has assets.


Richard Burpee Hanson: These are advances which the government is making to private concerns to meet production?


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is right.


Percy Chapman Black: Does the list from which the minister is reading include advances or commitments to Federal Aircraft or an estimate of what will be required to carry out the programme allotted to Federal Aircraft?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No; but I shall qualify that in a moment. Federal Aircraft is not a manufacturing company. It is a company that designs and supplies requirements, but the actual manufacturing is done in privately owned plants, and the advances to privately owned plants are here. Except for a small manufacturing enterprise which Federal Aircraft are conducting with their own facilities, and which is included here, the advances go to the manufacturing companies. Federal Aircraft simply makes the contracts with the privately owned companies.


Howard Charles Green: Does this expenditure of approximately $310,000,000 cover the total expenditure by the Canadian and British governments in Canada for plant and equipment?

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Clarence Decatur Howe: The total commitments.


Howard Charles Green: I mean the total expenditures and commitments.


John George Diefenbaker: What portion of that 8307,000,000 will ultimately be repayable by the companies to whom the advances are being made?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I would say, roughly, none of it. We are creating assets which we own and are recoverable from the plants which we own.


John George Diefenbaker: Has the minister an estimate of the value of the assets at the present time?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The assets at the present time are the figures I am giving you. What they will be after the war, perhaps you can give me.


John George Diefenbaker: The minister said a moment ago that depreciation was taken off machinery and assets immediately.


Clarence Decatur Howe: It is taken off immediately because we pay for the assets. In other words, so far as the government is concerned, the firm has no depreciation to write off because the asset is paid for. That is called taking the depreciation immediately. When the government pays for a thing holus-bolus, the manufacturer has no value left to depreciate.


John George Diefenbaker: What proportion of this $307,000,000 represents machinery written off immediately?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Written off immediately by whom.


John George Diefenbaker: That is the statement the minister made.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Let me try to explain it as simply as I can. We will say we wish to have a manufacturer build a plant to manufacture shells. There are two ways in which this can be done. The manufacturer can create the asset, pay for the plant and equipment. The machinery at least would have no post-war value, or very little, because it is a specialized process requiring specialized tools. Obviously, under these circumstances the government should permit the manufacturer to depreciate his plant during the war perhaps to nothing or perhaps to some definite figure. Provision is made in the revenue act to cover cases where the manufacturer has installed the plant at his own expense, so that there will be a depreciation cost, which -would naturally be added to the price of the product.
Then we take the alternative case; the government pays for the building and for the machinery. The government is also the purchaser of the product. In that case there is no depreciation charge to the government.


John Ritchie MacNicol: Does the government
operate the plant?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No. We own it. In other words, the private operator cannot charge depreciation on a plant for which he did not pay. That is what we call taking the depreciation at the start. In that case the product is sold to the government more cheaply than the situation would be with a privately owned plant which bought and paid for its equipment.


Percy Chapman Black: One hundred per cent depreciation is charged up to the initial order? Then the department would be in a more favourable position with regard to any future orders.


Clarence Decatur Howe: We could say that, but we take the depreciation in any event. We say this plant is built for our exclusive use, and we prefer to depreciate it when we build it.


Percy Chapman Black: The minister is referring to equipment furnished to a private industry. That means that the initial order bears the total depreciation.


Mr. JACKMAN:: When do you write off the capital cost?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Assuming we are the buyer of the product, we write off the capital cost when we install the machinery. We write it off against nothing; we simply write it off. We own the asset; we pay for it. We say to the operator: you are using our property; therefore you cannot depreciate it.


Howard Charles Green: These are state arsenals
owned by the government?


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is right.


Howard Charles Green: And operated by private
companies?


Clarence Decatur Howe: That is right.


Howard Charles Green: In every case? Have we any state arsenals operated by the government except those that we had before the war?


Clarence Decatur Howe: We have the Quebec arsenal, which has been greatly enlarged, and the Lindsay arsenal. Those, I think, are the only two we operate directly.


Howard Charles Green: And Valcartier.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes. I think that is all.


Howard Charles Green: The policy is for the state to own the arsenal but for that arsenal to be operated by a private firm?
War Appropriation Bill


Clarence Decatur Howe: Right.


Mr. ISNOR:: What method has the minister of comparing the cost of production in government owned and privately owned munitions plants, if in the one case the entire depreciation is charged at the beginning and, in the other, it is extended over a period of six to ten years? There is a heavy charge borne by the private manufacturer that is not borne by the government.


Clarence Decatur Howe: We have the costs in each plant. We take out the depreciation item and compare the costs for similar work in the two plants. But we appreciate, and the United Kingdom government appreciate that there are two classes of manufacture, one in which either they or we have created the asset and the other where we are using private facilities and the cost includes a depreciation charge. Naturally the plants that have to include a depreciation charge, generally speaking show higher costs than plants where there is no depreciation charge.


John Ritchie MacNicol: Can the minister give
the committee any information as to the relative cost, say of the 4-5 shell made in a plant the cost of which was wholly advanced by the government, and where the machines are also paid for by the government, as against the cost of the same shell made in a plant owned by a private company?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I do not think that situation exists. I do not think there are any 4-5 shells being made.


John Ritchie MacNicol: I just used that arbitrarily.


Richard Burpee Hanson: What the hon. member is asking is whether private manufacturers make them cheaper than the government shops.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Private manufacturers are making them in any event. While we own the factory, it was designed and laid out by a private firm and the private firm operates it.


Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):: On what basis, a management fee or cost plus?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Ordinarily on a management fee basis.


Alan Cockeram: There are some items of equipment being made in government arsenals and similar equipment made in private factories?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


Alan Cockeram: How do the costs compare in those cases?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I do not know that I can compare them. The cost of small arms and

ammunition, which is the big item in the arsenal product, depends on volume. At the moment the arsenal is turning out much more than any private plant, and I think its costs are lower. In my opinion, the arsenals are very efficiently operated.


John Ritchie MacNicol: During the great war a large number of plants all over the country, small plants owned by individuals and large company plants, were making shells. To-day the government is building many of the plants to make the shells in. Are shells that are being made in privately owned plants, if there are any, costing as much as or more than shells made in the wholly government owned plants?


Clarence Decatur Howe: It is difficult to compare shell making in this war with shell making in the last war. In the last war it was in a way Canada's major contribution in the munitions line. We are actually making more shells in this war than in the last, but doing it in a very few plants. The operation has changed; it is more highly mechanized. I do not think we have any plant where the government has not furnished the equipment; no plant in the country would have that specialized type of equipment which is used for shell making. I think in every case the government has installed the equipment, and in a few cases it has financed the building. I do not think the case of a wholly privately owned plant exists in the country to-day.


John George Diefenbaker: In view of the fact that the government is following this policy, should there not be some decentralization by the establishment of factories in western Canada-and for the moment I am speaking particularly of Saskatchewan. Recently there was a dispatch in the papers to the effect that three chemical factories were to be established by the dominion government, one to be located in Saskatchewan. Is the minister prepared to say now whether the government intends to go ahead this year under this appropriation with the construction of those chemical factories, and, if so, when they will proceed?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I have stated at each time these chemical factories were mentioned that I have never heard of them and have never been able to find any of my staff who know anything about them.


Richard Burpee Hanson: That is interesting. Perhaps it is the information bureau that has fallen down.


Clarence Decatur Howe: No; I do not think the information bureau is responsible for these news articles about projected plants. Of course we get inquiries from time to time from the

War Appropriation Bill
United Kingdom government as to whether we can produce certain chemicals for their account, and, if so, under what conditions and at what cost. We investigate that, and no doubt someone has explored the matter of manufacture of chemicals on the prairies. It is also possible that the financial part of the transaction did not appeal to the British government; I cannot say; I have no personal knowledge about that, but I make the statement on the theory that so many press dispatches must have had some basis in fact, though I have no idea what the basis was. I have made this statement in the house at least three times.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Take the cordite plant which is being built near Winnipeg. That is being built for the account of the British government, is it not?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


Richard Burpee Hanson: That is a D.I.L. operation, is it not?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


Richard Burpee Hanson: In ordinary circumstances the material that will be produced at that cordite plant near Winnipeg will have to be transported to -the Atlantic coast and shipped overseas. That is the intention?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


Richard Burpee Hanson: That plant could have been constructed more efficiently on the Atlantic coast, but it was established in Winnipeg absolutely for local considerations.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Not at all.


Richard Burpee Hanson: I have it right from a member of the Manitoba government that they pressed for it and got it.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I deny that absolutely, though I do not deny that -they pressed for it. I had nothing to do with that plant, but Mr. Harold Crabtree, who -had the responsibility, and his board of directors reported to me that this was the economical location for it.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Certainly I would be impressed with anything Mr. Crabtree said; make no mistake about that. I do not think he would say it unless he believed it, and he would not believe it unless he had some practical basis for that belief. I want to make -that statement right here and now. But I do know that pressure was brought to bear upon the government to build that cordite plant, or some other kind of industrial plant, in Manitoba in order to help relieve the unemployment situation in Winnipeg; and there is nothing wrong about that. But if you are going to use one province or one community in that way you must have regard to other communities. Until very recently less than four per cent of the government contracts were let in the maritime provinces. That does not include contracts the Dominion Iron and Steel company of the time at Sydney had for the account of the British government, which kept them busy one hundred per cent; but it was only with the greatest difficulty that contracts were obtained for execution in the maritime provinces, where they were needed very badly, for material that was to be shipped overseas. Just take the situation in Amherst, about which we will -hear a little more after we have had the minister's report in regard to Avro-Anson production. During the last election the minister went down there.
I have not the 6tory directly, but my colleague has it; he knows what the minister said.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Went where?


Richard Burpee Hanson: I will have to qualify that; it was either the minister to whom I am speaking now or one of his colleagues. It may have been the late Mr. Rogers, but whoever it was he promised the people of Amherst during the last election that the Amherst plant of t-he Canadian Car company would be used for the purpose of assembling Anson planes.


Clarence Decatur Howe: My colleague who has been referred to is no longer with us, but I can say this, that at the time of the last election there was no suggestion of any kind that Avro-Anson planes w-ould be built in this country, or any thought of building them. The idea of building Avro-Anson planes dates from June last. That was the first time we ever thought of it.


Percy Chapman Black: I do not want to hold the minister responsible-


Clarence Decatur Howe: Better not quote dead men.


Percy Chapman Black: All I am
asking, and all the people of Amherst are asking, is results. There was a commitment .made by the minister by a telegram

an old method of campaigning which I would not attribute to him-which was read at a large political meeting. I have not the wording of that telegram, but the meeting was held I think early in March, a year ago, and that telegram made a commitment to the town of Amherst.


Clarence Decatur Howe: What commitment?


Percy Chapman Black: That aeroplanes would be built in the town of Amherst.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Not Avro-Ansons, though.
War Appropriation Bill


Percy Chapman Black: I would not
say definitely whether it was aeroplanes of that type, but the minister was on the platform and that telegram was read by the local candidate. I do not know whether it was the Minister of Finance; I rather believe it was the late Minister of National Defence, Mr. Rogers. I do not want to hold the Minister of Munitions and Supply responsible for that; all I ask, and all that the people of Amherst ask, is that we get results in accordance with the undertaking given prior to that time, at that time and since that time, under which very considerable expenditures were made by the town of Amherst.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Since my hon. friend is
making his demand perhaps I had better make mine. I w-ould ask that the town of Amherst turn out the aeroplanes we have given them. At the moment there is a considerable pile-up of Anson machines awaiting assembly there. We need those machines very badly, and if my hon. friend could use his influence with the people he represents to have a few more men put to work in that plant so that these machines might be turned out, I should be greatly obliged.


Richard Burpee Hanson: That's
right; if Canadian Car is at fault let us know about it.


Percy Chapman Black: The town of
Amherst has made a splendid record in the assembling of these advanced training planes for the air force, but I believe that the work might be still further expedited. I am told that some of these planes lack the necessary engines and that other integral parts are missing. Until those parts are supplied the assembling of these aeroplanes cannot be completed. I believe this plant, and the citizens of the town of Amherst, have cooperated in every way possible; their record up to the present time is a splendid one, and they could do ten times the work of building aeroplanes that they have been permitted to do up to the present time. Again I say I do not want to censure or blame the department of the minister, but there has been great disappointment and many misgivings in my constituency, as well as all over Nova Scotia and the maritime provinces, because of the delay in carrying out the contemplated programme with respect to advanced training planes. The minister has promised an explanation of the delay, which I am awaiting anxiously. These planes represent a most urgent war necessity, and we down there want to do everything possible to expedite the carrying out of this programme.
(Mr. Howe.]


Howard Charles Green: Before the minister carries
on I should like to put the picture before him with perhaps a little broader background. He has told us to-day that there are commitments totalling $310,000,000 for plant and equipment in Canada to be financed partly by Great Britain and partly by Canada. The minister will admit that the great bulk of that plant and equipment is being put up in Ontario and the western portion of Quebec; the minister told me that in so many words last November. There may or may not have been good reasons for that at that time, but the fact is that because of this governmental policy the industries of Canada are being concentrated in central Canada, and the economy of this country is being made very lopsided. It was lopsided enough before, but this policy is making it just that much worse.
The minister told me a few minutes ago that there will be more commitments, and the impression I get is that there will be commitments amounting to many additional millions. I suggest to him that the time has come when this question of establishing war industries in Canada should be looked at from the point of view of the outlying parts of the country, both the maritimes on the east and the prairies and the Pacific coast province of British Columbia on the west. There is not so much work there; there is more unemployment. I do not need to go into the details. Hon. members know what it will mean to have these plants all operating in the central part of the country. Nothing would help the war effort of the nation more than to have the government announce as their policy that from now on they will locate many more plants in the eastern and western parts of Canada.


Clarence Decatur Howe: No one is more anxious than I am to distribute plants, but when a study of plants is made, either for British account or for Canadian account, there are certain requirements that must be taken into consideration, and one of these is power-the source and the cost of power. My hon. friend (Mr. Hanson) is complaining about there being no plants in New Brunswick. I am trying to locate a plant there now and the only way is to get power transmitted from a power plant in Quebec to the area where the operations are to be carried on.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Where is that, Campbellton?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes.


Richard Burpee Hanson: Of course Campbellton is not within the area in New Brunswick covered by the hydro scheme. We are developing power from slack coal at the

W ar Appropriation Bill
mines at Minto, distributable over a very considerable area, a good deal more cheaply than hydro. At any rate that is my information. The Campbellton area is not served by that development, and whatever power they have must come from Metis. I regret it, but it is a physical fact that Campbellton, being on the border of Quebec, is not served by power in New Brunswick. We can however develop power from coal in New Brunswick to take care of substantial war requirements if the minister will be good enough to let us have some industries down there. There is a dry dock in the city of Saint John, and I am glad to hear that for the account of the British government some freighters of moderate size will be built there. I hope that this policy will be extended. I wonder if we are to have from the Minister of National Defence for Naval Affairs, before consideration of this item is concluded, some statement of policy in that regard. If the matter comes under the minister who has just spoken, we can get the information from him. What about Canada building some freighters on her own account? This is a large subject which I do not wish to open up at this hour, but I have been giving it some thought and I hope the minister is thinking about it.


Clarence Decatur Howe: There are certain requirements that have to be met with regard to plants. There are certain factors that often make it necessary to go to a certain location, because the facilities cannot be duplicated elsewhere. It is all right to say that you have potential power in New Brunswick. I know that New Brunswick is doing its best to increase its power supplies and has machinery for the purpose; nevertheless power is not immediately available in that area. So far as it has been possible, however, at some increased cost, provided the cost is not too high, we have distributed plants. My hon. friend is wrong in saying that the Winnipeg plant was put there for political reasons.


Richard Burpee Hanson: I hardly went so far-to help the unemployment situation.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I have not had one-tenth
as much pressure from the government of Manitoba as I have had from the government of New Brunswick so far as that is concerned. We have people asking us in a nice way to build plants in certain places, and they are earnest in their request, but that is not pressure. We have not had pressure. We have had, from almost every community in Canada, requests to build airports, and there is nothing wrong with that. I only wish we could comply with every one of these requests, but airports are not located in that
way any more than manufacturing plants are. We have had special studies made of each of the prairie provinces and of British Columbia to see what can be done.


Howard Charles Green: Will the minister tell us
what the situation is in British Columbia?


Clarence Decatur Howe: A good deal of war work
is being done there. There is a large chemical industry at Trail, put there at government expense. There are large buildings because power is available there.
Mr. CRUICIiSHANK: Does the minister say there is a shortage of power there?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No.


Mr. CRUICKSHANK:: Why are we not manufacturing, then?


Howard Charles Green: I was referring to the question of power in British Columbia.


Clarence Decatur Howe: There is power there, it is true, but there is no steel. Steel has to be brought from a great distance and some types of manufacturing will not stand the cost of transporting steel back and forth across the Rocky mountains.


Howard Charles Green: Does the minister think it is fair that the manufacturing industry of British Columbia should be penalized by that fact? Are we to be prevented from taking part in the manufacturing of war equipment because we are so far away? For that matter, there is no steel in Ontario.


John Ritchie MacNicol: Steel is manufactured
in Ontario. The Algoma Steel plant is to-day turning out 3,000 tons of iron ore per day.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Two-thirds of the steel manufactured in Canada is manufactured in Ontario.


Howard Charles Green: I meant iron. There is no iron there.


John Ritchie MacNicol: Yes, there is.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The Helen mine is one of the greatest producers of iron ore. Between the hon. member for Davenport (Mr. Mac-Nicol) and myself we shall get the geography of the country straightened out.


Howard Charles Green: The situation is no laughing matter for the Pacific coast. I should like the minister to confirm the impression he left a minute ago, that the reason we are not getting more plants at the coast is that we are so far away and that it costs too much to transport the steel. He told me last November that it was lack of power. I want to know what the reason is so that something can be done to remedy the situation in our province.
War Appropriation Bill


Clarence Decatur Howe: We are establishing in the hon. member's province the type of work the province is best able to do. We put in a great deal of machine tool work. Every machine shop in British Columbia is at present engaged in the making of lathes, shapers and machine tools. That is a type of work that does not involve the transportation of heavy steel back and forth. We are building a large plant for naval guns.


John Ritchie MacNicol: Shipping barrels from
Ontario.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes. We are also obtaining in British Columbia three-quarters of the lumber requirements of the war. I have made an analysis before, and I think it holds true, showing that of all the provinces, British Columbia, on a per capita basis, is contributing more to the war effort than any province except Prince Edward Island.


Howard Charles Green: Yes, and a good deal of what we are shipping we were shipping before -for example, lumber. I do not want to get into any provincial fight over this question because the crisis is too serious for that. The fact is that the government is overlooking an opportunity to have war materials made on the coast. I believe this is largely due to the high freight rates. The only reason for the freight rate situation in British Columbia is that as a result of the war, vessels have been taken off the east to west coast run and the railroads have been allowed to jump up the freight rates. I suggest to the government that they arrange to place boats on this service in order to overcome this difficulty. There is no reason why we should not have plants there. Is this situation to affect our shipbuilding industry?


Clarence Decatur Howe: There is a shipbuilding industry there.


Howard Charles Green: Are we to be prevented from taking a larger part in this work because of the rate charged by the railroads for carrying steel across Canada?


Clarence Decatur Howe: We are referring to war production in British Columbia. I would remind my hon. friend that more ships are being built there at the present time than in any other province.


Howard Charles Green: It is the only province with completely ice-free harbours.


Clarence Decatur Howe: My hon. friend wants to take advantage of geography in one instance and disregard it in the other. Ships are being built in British Columbia because of its geographical location, and shells are not being manufactured there because of geography.

Freight rates have nothing to do with the situation; it is just geography. There is a considerable aircraft industry in that province.


Howard Charles Green: We do not pay money to geography, but we do pay it to the railways for freight rates.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I think that province has
the largest aircraft contract which has been given to any single plant.


George Alexander Cruickshank: It is only on paper. Where are aircraft being manufactured to-day in British Columbia?


Clarence Decatur Howe: At two places.


George Alexander Cruickshank: How many machines?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Quite a few. I cannot give the correct number offhand.


George Alexander Cruickshank: Not very many.


Clarence Decatur Howe: A plant in British Columbia is manufacturing the largest type of machine being made in Canada.


George Alexander Cruickshank: On February 15 a contract was let with the Boeing aircraft company for $4SO,000 for the construction of a plant. Is it not correct that that company has manufactured only one small plane?


Clarence Decatur Howe: No, it is not correct. I do not remember the size of the order, but I know we have got a good many more. This discussion is getting into a rather narrow field. The fact is that British Columbia is manufacturing ships because of its geographical location. The shipyards there are filled to capacity until the end of 1942.


Howard Charles Green: That is contrary to the story given me by the shipbuilders in British Columbia.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Let me tell my hon. friend-


Howard Charles Green: They may be wrong.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Order.


Howard Charles Green: They may be wrong, but I am 'told there is no reason why we Could not be building at least fifty merchant vessels on that coast. At the present moment I believe there are contracts for eight. I have the greatest respect for the minister; I believe he is working very hard at his job, but this thing should be looked into and if necessary there should be a change in policy. Another change which could be made, and which I think would help the whole of Canada, would be to have more manufacturing done in smaller plants throughout the country.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Is the problem to distribute the work or is it to get production?

War Appropriation Bill


Howard Charles Green: May I finish my statement? Certain work could be divided up among smaller plants. I am told that this could be done at the coast, that one plant could do a certain job, another plant could do another job and then the product could be assembled. It might prove considerably cheaper to do it that way than to erect these huge plants. I am asking the minister to take this under consideration. Perhaps at the moment he cannot let us know what can be done, but I feel confident that if this change were made he would get rid of many of his problems


Clarence Decatur Howe: I know of no small plant which has not more business than it can do at the moment. The smaller plants take subcontracts from the larger plants. Our aircraft industry is concentrated in seven or eight large centres, but the work is spread out in practically every town and village in the country. Almost every smaller machine shop can get all the work it wants to do.


Howard Charles Green: Not on the coast.


George Alexander Cruickshank: If it is correct that a smaller plant can get all the work, how is it that in New Westminster a plant which could turn out a hundred thousand shells a month is not turning out one shell to-day?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The trouble with that plant in New Westminster is that it has not the machinery or management. It is an empty building, and there are several empty buildings around the country.


George Alexander Cruickshank: This company is headed by the most competent business men in the country. It is not a question of management.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Perhaps I am talking about a different plant. My attention has been called to a plant in Vancouver which is being sold for taxes. I have tried to encourage someone to provide the necessary management and equipment in order that some war work might be undertaken.


George Alexander Cruickshank: As a member of
this house I can assure the minister that this plant does not happen to be in Vancouver. The hon. member for Vancouver South will be able to look after that matter. I am referring to the Heaps machine works in New Westminster, which is under the control of eight of probably the finest financial men in British Columbia. Mr. Churchill is demanding speed and more speed in furnishing equipment, and this plant is capable of turning out the necessary work. It is located on tidewater as well as on the railroads. It has the necessary equipment and the skilled labour is available, yet it is not turning out one shell.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Is this plant capable of turning out any product other than shells?


George Alexander Cruickshank: It is the largest foundry in British Columbia. It is turning out a few lathes. They do need a few lathes in the province.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Instead of turning out shells, it is turning out lathes. Apparently it is better suited to that particular production. It must be working on a government order if it is turning out lathes, because we are the only buyer of lathes in the market.


George Alexander Cruickshank: Why can they not get a government order?


Clarence Decatur Howe: They have one if they are turning out lathes. It would be an order for the Citadel Merchandising company, which is a government-owned company.


Mr. REID:: This particular plant was in liquidation, but about six months ago a new company was formed. They obtained extra property and installed new machinery. They came to Ottawa looking for orders for shells which they were prepared to manufacture. As the hon. member for Fraser Valley has pointed out, as yet they have received no order for shells. I join with the hon. member for Vancouver South in pleading with the minister to see that more war work is given to British Columbia. There is a Pacific as well as an Atlantic ocean, and no one can tell when we may have trouble on the Pacific. Hundreds of capable men are idle there.


Howard Charles Green: The minister told the committee that all these plants were working to capacity. I know that some machine shops in Vancouver are not working to capacity, even on an eight-hour shift, let alone on two or three shifts.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Which one?


Howard Charles Green: I will check up and give
the hon. gentleman the names.


John Ritchie MacNicol: In the event of any
British Columbia plant being used for, not making, but perhaps turning shells, will not the material of which the shells are composed have to be shipped from Ontario? As I understand it, all this material is made around Hamilton and Welland. What hon. members are asking is that the steel for making shells be shipped out to the west, and after being turned, out there, the shells will have to be shipped back east again.


Mr. COLD WELL:: Much that has arisen
out of the discussion this afternoon indicates a feeling of uneasiness in all parts of the house with respect to the Department of Munitions and Supply and' its part in the war effort. This concern is directed particularly, I think, to the aircraft industry. I under-
War Appropriation Bill

stand that certain reports have been made to the department. If we are to get a clear picture of the condition of the aircraft industry, these reports should be placed on the table of the house so that we can read them. I understand, for example, that a report has been made by one Ernest R. Breech, chairman of the board of the North American Aviation company, and that that report contains some pungent and vital criticisms of the aeroplane industry and of the department in relation to it. A short time ago I noticed that the Minister of National Defence for Air stated that the empire air training scheme could not be proceeded with at the rate that had been hoped for, on account of the fact that certain training planes were unavailable and that we would not be turning them out sufficiently-


Charles Gavan Power: I specifically stated that that had nothing to do with the production of Anson aeroplanes.


Mr. COLDWELL:: Let me just finish.


Charles Gavan Power: I did not want the hon.
member to get away with that.


Major James William Coldwell: The minister can correct me if I am wrong. The minister says that that has nothing to do with the Department of Munitions-


Charles Gavan Power: No, not at all. If the hon. member would listen to me he would hear what I said.


Major James William Coldwell: Well, certainly his statement was to the effect that the third group, I think it was-I am speaking entirely from memory-could not begin and proceed with their training because we were short of the necessary training equipment.


Charles Gavan Power: If my hon. friend will permit me, I did add at that time that that delay was not due to the delay in the production of Canadian-built Anson aircraft; that they were not expected at this time.


Major James William Coldwell: That may be so, but
may I point this out-


Richard Burpee Hanson: When does the minister expect them?


Charles Gavan Power: Pretty soon.


Major James William Coldwell: In view of the condition which has developed across the sea during the last six or eight months, the situation in our own aeroplane industry, from all we can find out about it, is deplorable. I do not know the number of planes that is being turned out in the various plants, but I do know something of the condition of some of the plants in this country. The hon. member
(Mr. Coldwell.]
for Fraser Valley spoke a few minutes ago of the Boeing plant in British Columbia. I believe the statement he made is in accordance with the facts. We know something about the Malton plant near Toronto.


Clarence Decatur Howe: What do you know about it?


Major James William Coldwell: Well, we will tell the minister about it on Monday.


Mr. GARDINER:: We may be here three hours to-night. Why not to-night?


Major James William Coldwell: Well, to-night, if it is necessary. I said that because, a little earlier this afternoon, I was asked if we would agree to the house rising at six o'clock, to which I assented. That is why I made the suggestion that it be Monday.
The Minister of Munitions and Supply has told this house on more than one occasion that certain branches of our war effort and of the provision of supplies were in production and that we were away ahead of schedule; and then we find out that as a matter of fact we are not ahead of schedule, or, if we are, the schedule calls really for nothing at all and therefore we must be ahead of it. I am suggesting this. I believe that a number of reports have been made. I understand that there is a report to the minister on this particular matter from the war requirements board. If we are to discuss these matters intelligently, all these documents should be on the table of the house so that we can go into them. The time has come when this parliament has got to get at all the information. Some of us for the last six months-


James Garfield Gardiner: What was the hon.
member doing two years ago?


Major James William Coldwell: WTiat was I doing two years ago? I will answer that question.


Mr. ROSS (Moose Jaw):: Holding up all the estimates that had anything to do with it.


Major James William Coldwell: I would like to say to the hon. member who interrupted me that we were adopting a realistic view of the situation as it then was-*


James Garfield Gardiner: A little foresight would have been better, with the situation as it then was.


Major James William Coldwell: -and since then events have entirely changed the picture. As the minister knows, we had no confidence in those who had betrayed democracy and collective security all through the years, and until there was a change of government we feared that we might be involved in a struggle which was not for democracy. One of the reasons

War Appropriation Bill
we are to-day supporting the war to one hundred per cent of our ability-and there is no group in this house that has a greater stake in the successful outcome of this war than the group for whom I am speaking this afternoon; make no mistake about that-


James Garfield Gardiner: May I ask the hon.
gentleman a question? Is he telling the committee that he was not in favour of the pacifist movement in this country for ten years prior to the opening of the war?


Major James William Coldwell: I always took the position that the only security for a country like Canada was collective security.


John Gordon Ross: And no defence at all.


Major James William Coldwell: That is the position I always took.


James Garfield Gardiner: And no defence.


Major James William Coldwell: And I always said that the best defence for Canada was to be found in the collective defence of the world. That was my position and it has been all through the years. I have been a member of the League of Nations society for many years, and that is the position I held.


Mr. HANSON (Yonk-Sunbury):: Well, we will forgive you that.


Major James William Coldwell: Let me tell the minister this: we shall have some form of collective security after this war, or we shall have no security at all. To-day we are trying to fight collectively for collective security.


Ernest Lapointe: Hear,
hear. May I ask my hon. friend a question? Does he agree with me that collective security must mean also collective preparedness?


Richard Burpee Hanson: How long has the hon. gentleman been in favour of collective preparedness?


Major James William Coldwell: I agree with the minister that collective security must be collective preparedness, and that our preparedness must include this thought, that war must not be used as an instrument of national policy but purely as an instrument to prevent war.


James Garfield Gardiner: May I ask another question, Mr. Chairman? Did my hon. friend not say in this house in 1937-


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Order.


James Garfield Gardiner: -that he was opposed to any expenditure-


The CHAIRMAN:: Order.


John Gordon Ross: He can't take it.


Thomas Vien: The hon. member who has the floor is entitled to proceed unless he wants to answer a question.


Major James William Coldwell: I am not in the habit of interrupting anybody on the other side of the house-


James Garfield Gardiner: You had better look up Hansard.


Major James William Coldwell: -but I would tell the hon. member who said I "can't take it'' that I can take it from him any time he cares to put it up to me.


John Gordon Ross: And I am speaking "collectively" too.


Major James William Coldwell: I was saying when I was interrupted that there is no group in this house which has a greater stake in the successful outcome of the war than the group which I represent; and with those of our labour colleagues, if you will, across the seas who took the same position in years gone by that we took, we believe that this war is being fought for the democratic way of life and the right of man to say the kind of things I am saying now on the floor of this house. If we are not fighting for that, we are fighting for nothing at all.
Having tried to answer the interrupters, may I again say to the minister that I a.m of the opinion that every report that is available regarding this industry should be placed before the house at our next sitting so that we may know exactly where we stand. I hear that we are turning out-I shall not name the number of planes but it is very few, yet I have a distinct recollection that last July, I think it was, the Minister of Munitions and Supply indicated that early this year, in the month of January, I believe, we would be turning out something like ten planes a day. We are not turning out ten planes a day or anything like it. Let us know just what we are doing, because it is now self-evident that the extent to which we can retain or gain mastery in the air will in all probability decide the outcome of the war. We ought to have been making every possible effort since the fall of France-I say this notwithstanding the statement made by the minister for air (Mr. Power) a few minutes ago-to relieve Great Britain of the necessity of sending any training planes to Canada, because she needs every plane she has or can muster to defend the narrow strip of water which separates her from Europe.
I	ask the minister to let us have a frank discussion. If there are matters which cannot be discussed publicly; if there are reports which cannot be placed publicly before this house because they might give information to
War Appropriation Bill

the enemy, let us meet in a closed session and get to the bottom of this thing so that we may all work together rather than do what I fancy we are doing now, namely, working critically and somewhat at cross-purposes.


Clarence Decatur Howe: My difficulty is this. I should like to place the reports on the table, particularly because they do not say what they have been quoted in this house as saying- quite the reverse. I should like to give the house the report from Mr. Breech, but unfortunately that was made orally to the war-time requirements board. That report is reflected, I presume, in Mr. MacMillan's report to myself, which is very comprehensive, covering the whole munitions programme. It gives the numbers of everything manufactured up to this time and the probable numbers of everything that will be manufactured up to the end of the fiscal year 1941-42. These are the very figures which Great Britain has asked us particularly not to give out, and a secret session would not materially change the situation because such figures are not given in secret sessions in Great Britain. The figures are highly confidential, giving the number of units that were shipped to Great Britain.
I can say to my hon. friend, however, who believes, as does the leader of the opposition, that the Breech report recommended that the Anson programme should be taken away from Federal Aircraft, that it recommended nothing of the sort. It recommended that it be not taken away from Federal Aircraft. It made one or two recommendations in connection with the organization of Federal Aircraft but said the programme was rapidly rounding into shape. That shows how far afield we can sometimes get.


Major James William Coldwell: That is why we should get the actual facts.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Perhaps I can lay on the table the part of the report referring to aircraft, but I am afraid that hon. members would then ask for the rest of it, and I should have to say that I could not make public the rest because it contains figures which must be kept confidential. We have a censorship to prevent just that sort of information from reaching the enemy. I rather imagine, though, if hon. members would like the aircraft section of the report, that I can lay it on the table, and I shall be very glad to do so.
So far as the report of Mr. Breech is concerned, I have never seen it. It was made orally, I think. I have questioned Mr. MacMillan and Mr. Henry, who accompanied Mr. Breech, and I have every reason to believe that the views of Mr. Breech are reflected in Mr. MacMillan's report.


Percy Chapman Black: But the
minister will admit that the Avro-Anson production of planes is many months behind schedule.


Clarence Decatur Howe: No. There was never the slightest thought in anyone's mind that we would get the first Avro-Anson plane before the end of February, 1941. We expected them to be delivered at the end of February, The first plane has been flown but it has not been delivered. I do not care to predict when production will come. Perhaps I had better leave that until I make a statement on the company. All I will say now is that we never anticipated having Avro-Anson planes of Canadian manufacture delivered at this date. Any delay in the air training programme-and I shall discuss that later-largely arises from the fact that, as you have heard my colleague state, the training was advanced by six months at this school and by six months at that school and the whole programme advanced by one year. We simply cannot advance our production as rapidly as it is possible to advance the school training. However, we are not doing too badly in meeting the situation, as I think hon. members will agree when I deal with that subject. Any present-day shortage of training planes has nothing to do with the Avro-Anson production, because no production from that source was contemplated by this time, and no statement ever was made or can be found to the contrary.


Mr. McIVOR:: Our aeroplane factory at
Fort William is turning out two and three Hurricanes a day. The plant is humming and speeding up production and there is every hope that production will reach more than two or three Hurricanes a day. That is pretty good considering what went before.


Major James William Coldwell: It shows that more
of these plants should be established on the prairies and in the west.


John George Diefenbaker: Referring to the
statement which the minister was making to the committee about an hour ago, could he not secure the permission of the house to have the rest of the statement placed on Hansard without reading it?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I shall be glad to hand the material to the reporters for inclusion in Hansard.
(The statement follows):



DIGEST OF CANADIAN AND BRITISH

[Stage Direction]
Name of Company	Location of Plant
	
Alberta Nitrogen Company		Calgary, Alta	
Alberta Nitrogen Company		Calgary, Alta	
Algoma Steel Corporation, Ltd	
Aluminum Goods Ltd	
Anaconda American Brass Limited	
Anaconda American Brass Limited	
Anaconda American Brass Limited	Sault Ste. Marie, Ont	
Toronto, Ont	
New Toronto, Ont	
New Toronto, Ont	
New Toronto, Ont	Atlas Steels Ltd	
Atlas Steels Ltd	
Atlas Steels Ltd	
Atlas Steels Ltd	
Babcock-Wilcox & Goldie-McCulloch	Welland, Ont	
Welland, Ont	
Welland, Ont	
Welland, Ont	Limited	
W. H. Banfield & Son, Limited	
Barber Die Castings Limited	
Wallace Barnes Co. Limited	
Bata Shoe Co. Ltd	
Bata Shoe Company Ltd	
Beatty Bros. Ltd	
Bendix-Eclipse of Canada Limited	Galt, Ont	
Toronto, Ont	
Hamilton, Ont	
Hamilton, Ont	[DOT] Frankford, Ont	
Frankfort, Ont	
Fergus. Ont	
Windsor, Ont	John Bertram and Sons Limited	
Boeing Aircraft of Canada, Ltd	
Boeing Aircraft of Canada, Ltd	
Boeing Aircraft of Canada, Ltd	Dundas, Ont	
Vancouver, B.C. 	
Vancouver, B.C	
Vancouver, B.C	Boeing Aircraft of Canada, Ltd	
Boeing Aircraft of Canada, Ltd	Vancouver, B.C	
Vancouver, B.C	British Aeroplane Engines	
Brown Boggs Foundry & Machine Co.	Montreal, P.Q	Ltd	
Canadian Acme Screw and Gear Co.	Hamilton, Ont	Ltd	Toronto, Ont


[Stage Direction]
Nature of Production under Assistance Agreement
Ammonia	
30 tank cars bought on behalf of the company.
9-2* How. Mk.ID/L-Forging	
Gas tanks for Anson Aircraft	
Cartridge Brass	
Brass manufacturing	
Working capital for production of cartridge brass.
40 mm. Bofors Barrel Forgings	
40 mm. Bofors	
2	pdr. A.T. Mark X Barrel Forgings.
3-7 A.A. loose barrel forgings	
40 mm. Shell Mk. II-T/L	
40 mm. Shell Mk. II-T/L	
40 mm. Shell-Base Plugs	
>03 S.A.A.-Charger Clips	
Gauges	
0-5*' Twin Mounting Mk. IV	
25 pdr. Primer No. 1 Mk. II	
40 mm. Shell-Tracer No. 7	
40 mm. Shell-Tracer No. 12 Mk. I.
Machine Tools	
Aircraft Parts and Assembly	
Manufacture of PBY flying boats	
Manufacture and Assembly of PBY
Boats	
Principal Overhaul Depot	
Manufacture and Assembly of PBY
Boats	
Overhaul Rolls-Royce Engines	
Machinery	
Nos. 27 and 28 pistols for G.P. bombs Mark IV aircraft 500 lb	
Commit- ments Total	Government Committed		
	Canada	United Kingdom	Joint (with %)
8			
10,110,006	Canada	U.K.	1/3 Can.
			/3 U.K.
207,750	Canada	U.K.	1/3 Can.
			2/3 U.K.
527,333		U.K.	
4,500	Canada.		
2,290,000	Canada.		
535,120	Canada.		
150,000	Canada.		
349,312	77%	23%	Joint
4,273		U.K.	
171,667	Canada.		
161,000			Joint 50%
246,957		U.K.	
128,325		U.K.	
2,124		U.K.	
1,841		U.K.	
28,050	Canada.		
136,600		U.K.	
61,108		U.K.	
325,328		U.K.	
1,220,000	Canada.		
87,698	Canada.		
29,940	Canada.		
1,442,000	Canada.		
438,000	Canada.		
27,400	Canada.		
6,949	Canada.		
65,000	Canada.		
457,155	Canada.		
*3
td
[Stage Direction]
c!
i>
*1
C©
War Appropriation Bill

DIGEST OF CANADIAN AND BRITISH PROGRAMME OF CAPITAL ASSISTANCE TO INDUSTRY-Continued
Name of Company
Canadian Acme Screw and Gear Co. Ltd	
Canadian Airways Limited	
Canadian Airways Limited	
Canadian Car & Foundry Co. Ltd....
Canadian Car & Foundry Co. Ltd....
Canadian Car & Foundry Co. Ltd....
Canadian Dredge and Dock Co. Ltd__
Canadian Elevator Equipment Co. Limited	
Canadian Elevator Equipment Co. Limited	
Canadian General Electric Co. Ltd.
Canadian General Electric Co. Ltd.
Canadian Locomotive Co. Ltd	
Canadian Locomotive Co. Ltd	
Canadian Motor Lamp Co. Ltd	
Canadian National Railways	
Canadian National Railways	
Canadian Pacific Railways	
Canadian Pacific Railways	
Canadian Pratt & Whitney Aircraft Co. Ltd.
Canadian Pratt & Whitney Aircraft Co. Ltd.
Canadian Tube and Steel Products, Ltd.
Canadian Vickers Limited	
Canadian Vickers Limited	
Canadian Westinghouse Co. Ltd	
Canadian Westinghouse Co. Ltd	
Canada Wire and Cable Co. Ltd	
Chemical Construction Corp	
[Stage Direction]
Id
4-.
Location of Plant
Toronto, Ont.
Winnipeg, Man. Winnipeg, Man. Montreal, P.Q..
Amherst, N.S. Cherrier, P.Q..
Toronto, Ont.. Toronto, Ont..
Toronto, Ont	
Peterborough, Ont., Peterborough, Ont.,
Kingston, Ont	
Kingston, Ont	
Windsor, Ont	
Montreal, P.Q	
Winnipeg, Man., Ogden, Alta-
Montreal, P.Q.. Longueuil, P.Q.,
Longueuil, P.Q.,
Montreal, P.Q..
Montreal, P.Q____
Montreal, P.Q-
Hamilton, Ont	
Hamilton, Ont	
Montreal E., P.Q... Niagara Falls, Ont.
Dartmouth, N.S.,
Nature of Production under Assistance Agreement
40 mm. Shell-Fuze 251.
Aeroplane engine overhaul depot...
Engine overhaul depot	
9-2" How. Shell Mk. XVI-Mach... 9-2" How. Shell Mk. ID/L-Mach.
Overhaul depot	
Shell Filling	
Crane facilities.
Gauges.
M.F. 2" Mk. II Motors and spare parts.
2 pdr. A.T. carriages	
3-7 A.A. mountings	
2 pdr. Mark VIII mountings	
G" How. Shell Mk. 1D/L mach	
25 pdr. Cartridge Case	
12 pdr. Mk. V guns and mechanisms (Naval)	
4 [DOT] 5/5 [DOT] 5 Gun Carriages	
12 pdr. guns and Mark IX mountings
(Naval)	
Tanks	
Training of Personnel	
Airscrew Overhaul Depot.
4-5" How. Shell-Forging 4-5" How. Shell-Machining.
Bolingbroke Short Legs	
Stranraer Flying Boats and Delta and Anson.
7 A. A. guns and loose barrels	
Torpedo engines	
Brass Strip, Discs and Rods	
Ammonia, ammonium nitrate and cials chemicals.
Principal overhaul base	
spe-
Commitments
Total
135,726
959,655
19,201
5,700
1,610,691
9,100
11,390,372
7,300
20,850
40,420 3,045,417 5,144.632 220,000 889,880 453,764
1,315,330
635.000
2,485,784
1,170,000
300.000
140,296
411,300
106,200
348,446
7,951,910
25,000
5,200,000
14,535,431
393,710
Government Committed
Canada
Canada.
Canada.
Canada.
Canada.
Canada.
Canada.
62%
Canada.
Canada.
Canada.
Canada.
Canada. Canada.
United
Kingdom

[Stage Direction]
38%

[Stage Direction]
Joint (with %)
1/3 C.
2/3 U.K.
Joint 50% Joint 50%
A.D. Can. 529.
Joint.
n
o
o
C/2
Joint 50%
Clark Ruse Aircraft Limited
War Appropriation Bill
Cockshutt Plow Co. Ltd	
Consolidated Mining and Smelting Co. Ltd.
Consolidated Mining and Smelting Co. Ltd.
Corman Engineering Company Ltd	
Corman Engineering Company Ltd	
Crane Limited	
Defence Industries Limited	
Defence Industries Limited	
Defence Industries Limited	
Defence Industries Limited	
Defence Industries Limited	
Defence Industries Limited	
Defence Industries Limited	
Defence Industries Limited	
Defence Industries Limited	
Brantford, Ont	
Trail, B.C	
Trail, B.C	
Toronto, Ont	
Toronto, Ont	
Montreal, P.Q	
Nobel, Ont	
De Salaberry Island, P.Q
Shawinigan Falls, P.Q...
Winnipeg, Man	
Pickering, Ont.,
St. Therese, P.Q	
Beloeil, P.Q	
Windsor, Ont	
Montreal, P.Q	
Defence Industries Limited	
DeHaviland Aircraft of Canada, Ltd.. DeHaviland Aircraft of Canada, Ltd... DeHaviland Aircraft of Canada, Ltd...
Verdun, P.Q	
West Toronto, Ont. West Toronto, Ont. West Toronto, Ont.
Dominion Bridge Co. Ltd	Montreal, P.Q.
Dominion Bridge Co. Ltd	Montreal, P.Q
Dominion Bridge Co. Ltd	
Dominion Engineering Co. Ltd- Dominion Engineering Co. Ltd-
Dominion Engineering Co. Ltd
[Stage Direction]
Dominion Engineering Works Ltd
Montreal, P.Q. Lachine, P.Q.. Montreal, P.Q. Montreal, P.Q. Longueuil, P.Q,
Dominion Engineering Works Ltd....
Dominion Forge & Stamping Co. Ltd... Dominion Foundries and Steel Co. Ltd.. Dominion Foundries and Steel Co. Ltd..
Dominion Rubber Co. Ltd	
Dominion Rubber Co. Ltd	
Dominion Steel & Coal Corp. Ltd...
Longueuil, P.Q....
Walkerville, Ont...
Hamilton, Ont	
Hamilton, Ont	
Kitchener, Ont....
Kitchener, Ont....
New Glasgow, N.S,
Dunlop Tire and Rubber Goods Co. Ltd.
Toronto, Ont,
Dunlop Tire and Rubber Goods Co. Ltd. Dunlop Tire and Rubber Goods Co. Ltd. Dunlop Tire and Rubber Goods Co. Ltd. Dunlop Tire and Rubber Goods Co. Ltd.
Duplate Tool and Die Co. Ltd	
Eastern Car Company Ltd	
Electric Reduction Co. of Canada Ltd..
Toronto, Ont	
Toronto, Ont	
Toronto, Ont	
Toronto, Ont	
Toronto, Ont	
Trenton, N.S	
Buckingham, P.Q	
25 pdr. shell smoke-machining	
Ammonia	
Ammonia and ammonium nitrate	
Manufacture of directing gears	
Gauges	
40 mm. Shell-Primer No. 18	
Cordite, T.N.T., Rifle Cordite	
N/C Cannon Powder, N/C Rifle Powder,
D.N.T., T.N.T., Tetryl	
Hexachlore thane	
Cordite	
Ammunition filling plant	
Propellants for test purposes	
Carbamite	
[DOT]303 S.A.A. Detonators-Fuze 119, Fuze
251 and Gaine 11	
Working capital arrangement	
Small Arms ammunition	
Air fuselages	
Principal overhaul depot	
Manufacture of Anson fuselages and machinery and assembly	
3[DOT]7*' cartridge cases; 4" cartridge cases..
'5 pdr. shell-cartridge cases	
3	-7" shell-cartridge cases	
2 pdr. guns Mk. VIII	
Machine tools	
6 pdr. Anti-tank gun	
2 pdr. Mark VII mountings	
2 pdr. anti-tank guns and mechanisms,
Mark X	
Working Capital for 2 pdr. A.T. guns-
25 pdr. shell H.E.-Forging	
Heat, treat and straighten armour plate.
3-7 A.A. loose barrel forgings	
Tires	_	
Tooling to produce 10-50 x 10 sand tires.. 1" H.A. single mounting, 4" twin mountings (naval)	:	
Gun firing and brake control equipment
and relay control valves	
9 00 x 16 R.F. tires for military purposes.. New size runflat tires, tubes and spares.. . Tooling to produce 10-50 x 20 sand tires.... 9 -00 x 16 R.F. tires for military purposes..
Gauges	
4" twin and 4" single gun mountings..
Yellow and red phosphorous	
313,288		U.K.
1,162,500		U.K.
7,260,830		U.K.
1,000	Canada.	
12,500	Canada.	
155,138		U.K.
10,572,800		U.K.
18,670,973		U.K.
284,375		U.K.
9,035,000		U.K.
15,000,000	Can. 1/8	U.K. 7/8
75,000	Canada.	
200,000		U.K.
8,619,413		U.K.
3,350,000		
675,000		
130,000	Canada.	
136,239	Canada.	
767,875	Canada.	
83,850	Canada.	
350,175		
1,505,195		U.K.
4,000,000		U.K.
800,000	Canada.	
6,232,000	Canada.	
180,000		U.K.
4,435,507	25%	75%
500,000		
93,600		U.K.
723,535	Canada.	
994,405		
163,469	Canada.	
67,632		U.K.
3,500,000		U.K.
44,000	Canada.	
8,825	Canada.	
6,195	Canada.	
3,200		U.K.
148,500	Canada.	
36,832	Canada.	
3,500,000		U.K.
290,000	Canada.	
Joint
Joint
Joint 50%
War Appropriation Bill

[Stage Direction]
Name of Company
Location of Plant
Electric Reduction Co. of Canada Ltd..
Buckingham, P.Q	
Electric Steels Limited	
Electric Steels Limited	
English Electric Co. of Canada Limited. Fairchild Aircraft Limited	
Cap de la Madeleine, P.Q Cap de la Madeleine, P.Q
St. Catharines, Ont	
Longueuil, P.Q	
Fairchild Aircraft Limited
Longueuil, P.Q,
Firestone Tire & Rubber Co. Ltd	 Hamilton, Ont.
Firestone Tire & Rubber Co. Ltd	 Hamilton, Ont.
Firestone Tire & Rubber Co. Ltd	
Fleet Aircraft Limited	
Fleet Aircraft Limited	
Fleet Aircraft Limited	
Ford Motor Company of Canada Ltd...
Hamilton, Ont. Fort Erie, Ont. Fort Erie, Ont. Fort Erie, Ont. Windsor, Ont..
Ford Motor Company of Canada Ltd_
Windsor, Ont
Ford Motor Company of Canada Ltd... Ford Motor Company of Canada Ltd... General Engineering Co	
Windsor, Ont.. Windsor, Ont.. Pickering, Ont,
General Motors of Canada Limited..
General Motors of Canada Limited..
Goodrich Tire & Rubber Co. Ltd....
Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. of Canada
Limited	
Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. of Canada
Lim ited	
Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. of Canada
Limited	
Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. of Canada
Limited	
Gutta Percha Rubber Company Limited	
Hamilton Bridge Co. Limited	
Oshawa, Ont	
Oshawa, Ont	
Kitchener, Ont__
New Toronto, Ont.
New Toronto, Ont.
New Toronto, Ont.
New Toronto, Ont
Toronto, Ont	
Hamilton, Ont	
Hamilton Gear & Machine Company___
Toronto, Ont
DGRAMME OF CAPITAL ASSISTANCE TO INDUSTRY-Continued
Nature of Production under	Commit-	Government Committed	Assistance Agreement	ments	United	JointKingdom	(with %)Potassium chlorate, ammonium per-	$	chlorate, potassium perchlorate, bar-	ium chlorate	131,000	Canada.	Bombs	1,056.600	Canada.	Working capital (assistance)	575,000	Transformers, motors, switch gear	719,165	Canada.	Bolingbroke Aircraft (addition to P.C.	6887)	66,880	Canada.	Increased production of Bolingbroke Air-	craft	55,000	Canada.	9-25 x 16 R.F. tires, tubes, and spacers..	6,100	Canada.	Tooling to produce 10-50 x 20 cross coun-	try tires	5,039	U.K.	T ires	124,900	Canada.	Manufacture of aircraft	2,900,000	Canada.	Manufacture and overhaul depot	514,273	Canada.	Overhaul of Kinner Engines	22,000	Canada.	Constant velocity universal joints foi	four wheel drive mechanical transport	vehicles	250,000	Canada.	Mechanical transport vehicles of the	four wheel drive type	1,500,000	Canada.	Universal carriers	1,121,000	Canada.	Four wheel drive motor transport	1,000,000	Canada.	Filling fuses, primers, etc	2,250,000	Canada.	U.K.	1/8 Can.Army type Quad. 4x4 motor vehicles...	1,500,000	Canada.	7/8 U.K.Four wheel drive motor transport	1,000,000	Canada.	Tires	30,109	Canada.	Production of 9-25 x 16 R.F. Tires, tubes	and spacers	6,000	Canada.	Tooling to produce 10-50x20 sand tires...	28,900	U.K.	Tires	40,000	Canada.	Tires	592,433	Canada.	T ires	30,074	Canada.	Steel body and turret adapted to the	4x4 Ford chassis (one experimental)...	6,500	Canada.	Tank transmission	363,000	Canada.	
g
[Stage Direction]
o
[Stage Direction]
o
co
War Appropriation Bill
John Hay and Company .				Ottawa, Ont	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
John Inglis Company Ltd		Toronto, Ont	
John Inglis Company Ltd..
John Inglis Company Ltd..
John Inglis Company Ltd..
Kelsey Wheel Company Limited
MacDonald Bros. Aircraft Ltd... MacDonald Bros. Aircraft Ltd...
Toronto, Ont..
Toronto, Ont..
Toronto, Ont..
Windsor, Ont..
Winnipeg, Man. Winnipeg, Man.
MacDonald Bros. Aircraft Ltd...Winnipeg, Man,
MacDonald Bros. Aircraft Ltd...Winnipeg, Man.
MacKenzie Aircraft Ltd	
MacKenzie Aircraft Ltd. v ... McKinnon Industries Limited McKinnon Industries Limited
Edmonton, Alta Edmonton, Alta St. Catharines, Ont St. Catharines, Ont
McLennan Foundry and Machine Works.
M. & C. Aviation Ltd	
M. & C. Aviation Ltd	
M. & C. Aviation Ltd	
Manitoba Bridge and Iron Works Ltd...
Campbellton, N.B Prince Albert, Sask Prince Albert, Sask Prince Albert, Sask Winnipeg, Man	
Manitoba Bridge Co. Ltd	
Maritime Steel and Foundries Limited..
Winnipeg, Man....
New Glasgow, N.S
Gauges	
Mechanical transport vehicles, parts and
aircraft parts	
Gauges	
40 mm. Shell Mk. II-T/L	
Bren Mk. I Machine Gun (7,000 Guns for Canada; 5,000 for U.K.) Original contracts to be completed in four years.
Extension to produce 5,000 extra guns per
year	
Extension to produce 2,000 extra barrel assemblies per month.
Extension to produce 15,000 extra guns per year	
33,770	^Canada.	
398,000	Canada.	
26,950	Canada.	
216,279		U.K.
	Canada.	U.K.
1,328,910		U.K.
407,605		U.K.
1,357,288	Canada.	U.K.2,603,537\	Canada.	U.K.3,059,320/ 4,338,510	Canada.	U.K.
2/3 Can. 1/3 U.K.
1/3 Can. 2/3 U.K.
1/3 Can. 2/3 U.K. 1/3 Can. 2/3 U.K.
Boys anti-tank rifle Mk. I	
Working capital for production..
Colt-Browning MG 40 machine Gun 5,000
per year	
Extension to increase to 20,000 year.
Extension to increase by 25,000 per year.
This is to be divided as required: a-M1919A4 Tanks b-MG 40 Planes c-MG 38	Infantry
(The above allotments appear to have been merged into a single project whose total nnn~i m l" + tn ntit is S13 flQR 170 lindor P.C. 0988.1
1/3 Can. 2/3 U.K. 1/3 Can. 2/3 U.K.
Sub-contractor Ford Motor Company
carriage production	
Overhaul depot	
Manufacture Anson wings and overhaul
depot	
Manufacturing winter modification parts Furniture for Anson parts manufacture
and overhaul	
Principal overhaul depot	
Principal overhaul depot	
Fuze 199-Mk. IV	
ft* How.-Fuze 119; 25 pdr.-Fuze 119
4-5" How.-Fuze 119	
6" How. Shell Mk. ID/L machining____
Aircraft overhaul depot	
Overhaul base	
Office furniture for overhaul depot.
4-5*' IIow. shell-machining 25 pdr. shell
H.E.-Forging	
4	5" How. Shell	
G" How. shell Mk. ID/L-machining
3,354,958	Canada.	U.K.2,000,000	Canada.	U.K.110,600	Canada.	46,171	Canada.	651,505	Canada.	15,626	Canada.	894	Canada.	479,787	Canada.	4,724	Canada.	21,588	U.K.872,526	U.K.182,526	U.K.74,569	Canada.	6,590	Canada.	450	Canada.	338,625	U.K.5,525	U.K.224,203	U.K.
*4
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War Appropriation Bill

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Name of Company
Massey-Harris Co. Ltd
Location of Plant
Toronto, Ont
Massey-Harris Co. Ltd	
Mid-West Aircraft Limited	
Robert Mitchell Co. Limited	
Modern Tool Works Limited	
Montreal Construction Supply and Equipment Limited	
Toronto, Ont.. Winnipeg, Man Montreal, P.Q. Toronto, Ont..
Montreal, P.Q.
Montreal Locomotive Works Limited... Montreal, P.Q. Montreal Locomotive Works Limited... Montreal, P.Q.
Morrow Screw and ited	
Nut Company, Lim-
Ingersoll, Ont,
Mueller Limited	
Mueller Limited	
National Cash Register Co. of Canada
Limited	
National Cash Register Co. of Canada
Limited	
National Steel Car Corp., Ltd	
Nichols Chemical Company, Ltd	
Noorduyn Aviation Limited	
Noorduyn Aviation Limited	
Northern Electric Limited	
Northern Electric Limited	
Otis-Fensom Elevator Company Limited	
Otis-Fensom Elevator Company Limited	
Otis-Fensom Elevator Company Limited	
Page-Horsey Tubes Ltd	
Parker Pen Co. Ltd	
Peacock Bros. Limited	
Sarnia, Ont___
Sarnia, Ont___
Toronto, Ont...
Toronto, Ont... Montreal, P.Q. Clark Is., P.S. Montreal, P.Q. Montreal, P.Q. Montreal, P.Q. Montreal, P.Q.
Hamilton, Ont
Hamilton, Ont
Hamilton, Ont
Toronto, Ont.. Toronto, Ont.. Montreal, P.Q.
GRAMME OF CAPITAL ASSISTANCE TO INDUSTRY-Continued
Nature of Production under Assistance Agreement
Commitments
Total
Government Committed
Canada
United Joint Kingdom (with %)
40 mm. shell Mk. II-T/L 25 pdr. shell
H .E.-m aehining	
25 pdr. shell	
Overhaul primary trainers	
25 pdr. shell-cartridge case	
Machine tools	
*
371,801	
2,584	
6,040 Canada.
442,775	
145,000 Canada.

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18 pdr. Shell H.E.
0* How. Shell Mk. ID/L-machining;
9-2' How. Shell Mk. ID/L-machining Production of M. Ill cruiser tanks and 5 [DOT] 5 gun carriages (two separate agreements -(1) construction of plant, (2) production of tanks and gun carriages)...
307,500
1,602,696
5,145,000
Canada. (Dept, of N ment of N
3,295,000
U.K. ational Def ov. 1937)

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3-7' ammunition-Primer No. 11; 4-5'
How.-Primer No. 1 Mk. II	
3-71' Ammunition-Gaine No. II...
Gaine No. 10 Mk. IZ	
81,015 163,922 55,105

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25 pdr. smoke-Fuze 221
263,925
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Fuze 199-Parts	
3-7 Shell QF. H.E. Mk. I C/l	
Sulphuric Acid	
Manufacture Norseman and assembly...
Aircraft overhaul depot	
3-7" Ammunition-Fuze 199	
Fuze 199-Parts	
41,449	
96,263	
1,406,500	
741,000 Canada. 28,724 Canada.
848,146	
4,892

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40 mm. Bofors Loose Barrels
779,171
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40 mm. Bofors Equipment
9,936,583
25%
Working capital (Mfg. of 40 mm. Bofors
Ordnance and mountings	
5" How. shell-Forging	
Primers No.14	
Domes, patterns Nos. 3057 and 6936..
300,000
75,780
25,600
10,000
30,000
50%
Canada
Canada.
75%
50%

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War Appropriation Bill
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K Peacock Bros. Limited	
P Pedlar People Limited	
T	Montreal, P.Q	
Oshawa, Ont	s Pratt and Whitney Co. Limited	
Renfrew Electric and Refrigerator Co.	Dundas, Ont	Ltd	Renfrew, Ont	Robb Engineering Works Limited	
Sangamo Company Ltd	
Sawyer-Massey Limited	
Sawyer-Massey Limited	Amherst, N.S	
Toronto, Ont	
Hamilton, Ont	
Hamilton, Ont	Shaw-Tool and Machine Company	
Shawinigan Chemicals Limited	
Shawinigan Chemicals Limited	
Sherbrooke Pneumatic Tool Company Ltd.	Toronto, Ont	
Shawinigan Falls, P.Q	
Shawinigan Falls, P.Q	
Montreal, P.Q	Sieberling Rubber Co	Toronto, Ont	Sieberling Rubber Co	
Sicard Limited	Toronto, Ont	
Montreal, P.Q	w Singer Manufacturing Co	
5 N. Slater Company, Limited	St. Johns, P.Q	
Hamilton, Ont	§ Small Electric Motor Limited	Toronto, Ont	a h Sorel Industries Limited	
§ Sorel Industries Limited	Sorel, P.Q	
Sorel, P.Q	Sorel Industries Limited	
Standard Chemical Co	
Standard Machine Works	
Standard Machine Works	
Stanley Steel Company	
Steel Company of Canada, Ltd	
Steel Company of Canada, Ltd	
Sutton-Horsley Co. Limited	
Trans-Canada Air Lines	
Trans-Canada Air Lines	
Trenton Steel Works Limited	Sorel, P.Q	
Montreal, P.Q	
Winnipeg, Man	
Winnipeg, Man	
Hamilton, Ont	
Hamilton, Ont	
Hamilton, Ont	
Toronto, Ont	
Winnipeg, Man	
Malton, Ont	
Trenton, N.S	Trenton Steel Works	New Glasgow, N.S	Trenton Steel Works	
United Steel Corp., Limited	
Valois and Valois	
Viceroy Manufacturing Company, Ltd...	Trenton, N.S	
Toronto, Ont	
Montreal, P.Q	
West Toronto, Ontario	A.S. equipment	
40 mm. cartridge case, 4-5 How. cart-	40,000 529,189 53,024	Canada.Gauges	Canada.Machine tools for the manufacture of	aircraft electrical equipment	50,000	Canada.6' How. shell Mk. ID/L-Mach	208,026 25,000	Electrical equipment recorders	Canada12 pdr. HA/LA Mk. IX	60,000	Manufacture of 12 pdr. HA/LA Mk. IX	50,000 18,200	Gauges	Canada1,140,000 237,000 271,920	
6* How. shell Mk. ID/L-Machining			
Tooling to produce 10-50 x 20 cross		
	5,006 100,025	
		Canada.
Four-wheel drive trucks fitted with		
snow blower units		200,000	Canada.
25 pdr. Smoke-Fuze 221		240,233	
40 mm. Cart. Case-Primer No. 18 body		
	53,680	
High frequency alternator and governor		
type motors	75,000	Canada.25 pdr. guns and mechanisms	7,500,000	93%4' gun Mk. XVI, 4" Mk. V. guns	4,320,000	Can. paid3,000,000 60,000 35,586	for land.
Aeroplane engine overhaul depot			Canada.
Aircraft overhaul depot		6,000	Canada.
Steel for S.A.A. charger clips		35,000	
Pig iron and steel ingots		3,855,000	Canada.
6" How. Shell Mk. ID/L-Forging		849,900 15,500	
Aircraft spare parts			Canada.
Repair operations	10,000	Canada.Airframe overhaul depot	18,924	Canada.6" How. Shell Mk. ID/L-Forging; 4' Shell F.A.H.E. 35 lb. Mk. IB(N) Machining; 4" Shell F.A.H.E. 35 lb. Mk. IB(N) Forging	673,272	3-7 A.A. jackets, breech rings and breech	blocks	539,735	50%4-7 H.E. Shell	75,000	25 pdr. Shell H.E.-machining	47U440	Gauges	10,020	Canada.6" How. Shell-Duroc Transit Plug	734	Canada. 1

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7%

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50%

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War Appropriation Bill

DIGEST OF CANADIAN AND BRITISH PROGRAMME OF CAPITAL ASSISTANCE TO INDUSTRY-Concluded
Name of Company	Location of Plant	Nature of Production under Assistance Agreement	Commit- ments Total	Government Committed	Canada	United Kingdom	Joint (with %)$ 166,928 81,100 100,000 15,000 12,800 49,770	U.K. U.K. U.K.	
Canada.		
						
				Canada. Canada.		
Whitehall Machine and Tool Company..						
						
			$268,499,894			
						
						
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03
War Appropriation Bill

War Appropriation Bill
Capital Assistance by Class of Product (December 31, 1940)
Shells
Algoma Steel	$	527,333
Babcock-Widcox	 246,957
Banfield	 128,325
Barber Die Casting	 2,124
W. Barnes	 1,841
Beatty Bros	 61,108
Bendix Eclipse	 325,328
Can. Acme Screw	 135,726
Can. Acme Screw	 959,655
Can. Car & Foundry	 1,610,691
Can. Locomotive	 889,880
Can. Motor Lamp	 453,764
Can. Tube & Steel	 411,300
Cockshutt Plow	 313,288
Crane Ltd	 155,138
Defence Industries	 8,619,413
Defence Industries	 3,350,000
Defence Industries	 675,000
Dom. Bridge	 83,850
Dom. Bridge	 350,175
Dom. Bridge	 1,505,195
Dom. Forge & Stamping	 93,600
Iugersoll	 216,279
McKinnon Ind	 21,588
McKinnon Ind	 872,526
McLennan	 182,526
Manitoba Bridge	 338,625
Manitoba Bridge	 5,525
Maritime Steel	 224,203
Massey Harris	 371,801
Massey Harris	 2,584
R. Mitchell	 442,775
Montreal Construction	 307,500
Montreal Locomotive	 1,602,696
Morrow Screw & Nut	 81,015
Mueller Ltd	 163,922
Mueller Ltd	 55,105
National Cash Reg	 263,925
National Cash Reg	 41,449
Nat. Steel Car	 96,263
Northern Elec	 848,146
Northern Elec	 4,892
Page Hersey	 75,780
Parker Pen	 25,600
Pedilar People	 529,189
Robb Engineering	 208,026
Sherbrooke Pneumatic	 271,920
Singer Sewing Mach	 240,233
N. Slater	 53,680
Steel Co. of Can	 849,900
Trenton Steel	 673,272
Trenton Steel	 75,000
United Steel Corp	 471,440
Viceroy Mfg	 734
Vulcan Iron Works	 166,928
Waterous Ltd	 81,100
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Guns and Mountings
Atlas Steels	$	349,312
Atlas Steels	 4,273
Atlas Steels	 171,667
Atlas Steels	 161,000
Bata Shoe	 136,600
Can. Gen. Electric	 3,045,417
Can. Gen. Electric	 5,144,632
Can. Locomotive	 220,000
C.N.R	 1,315,330
C.N.R	 635,000
C.P.R	 2,485,784
Can. Westinghouse	 7,951,910
Dom. Bridge	 4,000,000
Dom. Engineering	 6,232,000
Guns and Mountings-Concluded
Dom. Engineering	$	180,000
Dom. Engineering	 4,435,507
Dom. Engineering	 500,000
Dom. Foundries	 994,405
Dom. Steel	 3,500,000
Eastern Car	 3,500,000
John	Inglis	
1,328,910John	Inglis	
407.605John	Inglis	
1,357,288John	Inglis	
2,603,537John	Inglis	
3,059,320John	Inglis	
4,338,510John	Inglis	
3,354,958John	Inglis	
2,000,000Montreal Locomotive	
1,850,000Otis-Fensom	
779,171Otis-Fensom	
9,936,583Otis-Fensom	
300,000Sawyer-Massey	
60,000Sawyer-Massey	
50,000Sorel Industries	
7,500,000Sorel Industries	
4,320,000Sorel Industries	
3,000,000Trenton Steel	
539,735Small Arms	
2,456,892Small Arms	
2,500,000
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Tanks and Carriers
C.P.R	$	1,170,000
Ford Motors	 1,121,000
Hamilton Gear	 363,000
Montreal Locomotive	 3,295,000
Waterous Ltd	 100,000
$	6,049,000
Aircraft
Alu. Goods	$	4,500
Boeing Aircraft	 87,698
Boeing Aircraft	 29,940
Boeing Aircraft	 1,442,000
Boeing Aircraft	 438,000
Boeing Aircraft	 27,400
Br. Aeroplane	 6,949
Can. Airways	 19,201
Can. Airways	   5,700
Can. Pratt & Whit	 300,000
Can. Pratt & Whit	 140,296
Can. Vickers	 106,200
Can. Vickers	 348,446
Clark Ruse Aircraft	 393,710
De Haviland	 130,000
De Haviland	 136,239
De Haviland	 767,875
Fairchild Aircraft	 66,880
Fairchild Aircraft	 55,000
Fleet Aircraft	 2,900,000
Fleet Aircraft	 514,273
Fleet Aircraft	 22,000
MacDonald Aircraft	 46,171
MacDonald Aircraft	 651,505
MacDonald Aircraft	 15,626
MacDonald Aircraft	 894
MacKenzie Aircraft	 479,787
MacKenzie Aircraft	 4,724
M & C Aviation	 74,569
M & C Aviation	 6,590
M & C Aviation	 450
Mid-West Aircraft	 6,040
Noorduyn Aviation	 741,000
Noorduyn Aviation	 28,724
Standard Machine	 35,586
Standard Machine	 6,000>
War Appropriation Bill
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Aircraft-Concluded
Sutton Horsley	$
Trans-Canada	
Trans-Canada	
Br. Aeroplane	
Can. Car	
Can. Pratt & Whit	
Fairchild Aircraft	
Fairchild Aircraft	
Fairchild Aircraft	
Can. Vickers	
Federal Aircraft	
Federal Aircraft	
Federal Aircraft	
Can. Car & Found	
15,500
10,000
18,924
10.820
125.000 2,530,417
395,970
129,144
22,000
44.000 4.140,850
570.000
70.000 9,100
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Automotive Equipment
Dominion Rubber	$
Dominion Rubber	
Dunlop Tire	
Dunlop Tire	
Dunlop Tire	
Dunlop Tire	
Firestone Rubber	
Firestone Rubber	
Firestone Rubber	
Ford Motors	
Ford Motors	
Ford Motors	
General Motors	
General Mo-tors	
Goodrich Rubber	
Goodyear Rubber	
Goodyear Rubber	
Goodyear Rubber	
Goodyear Rubber	
Gutta Peroha	
Hamilton Bridge	
Hayes Steel	
Kelsey Wheel	
Sieberling	
Sieberling	
Sicard Ltd	
163,469
67,632
8,825
6,195
3,200
148.500
6,100
5,039
124,900
250.000
1.500.000 1,000,000
1.500.000 1,000,000
30,109
6,000
28,900
40,000
592.433
30,074
6.500
398.000 110,600
5,006
100,025
200.000
$	7,331,507
Bombs
Can. Acme Screw	$	457,155
Electric Steels	 1,056,600
Electric Steels	 575,000
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Chemicals and Explosives
Alta. Nitrogen	$	10,110,006
Alta. Nitrogen	 207,750
Can. Car & Foundry	 11,390,372
Chem. Construction Corp	 14,535,431
Consol. Mining	 1,162,500
Consol. Mining	 7,260,830
Defence Induat	 10,572,800
Defence Indust	 18,670,973
Defence Indust	 284,375
Defence Indust	 9,035,000
Defence I-ndust	 15,000,000
Defence Induat	 75,000
Chemicals and Explosives-Concluded
Defence Indust	$
Electric Reduction	
Electric Reduction	
Gen. Engineering	
Nichols Chem	
Shawinigan Chem	
Shawinigan Chem	
Standard Chem	
Welland Chem	
200,000
290.000
131.000
2.250.000 1,406,500
1.140.000
237.000 60,000 15,000
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Machine Tools, Miscellaneous, Etc.
Bata Shoe	$	28,050
J. Bertram	 1,220,000
Brown Boggs	 65,000
Can. Dredge & Dock	 7,300
Can. Elev. Equip	 20,850
Can. Elev. Equip	 40,420
Corman Engineering	 1,000
Corman Engineering	 12,500
Dom. Engineering	 800,000
Dunlop Tire	 44,000
Duplate Tool	 36,832
Eng. Electric	 719,165
John Hay & Co	 33,770
Houser Machine Works	 26,950
Modern Tools Co	 145,000
Peacock Bros	 10,000
Peacock Bros	 30,000
Peacock Bros	 40,000
Pratt & Whitney	 53,024
Renfrew Electric	 50,000
Sangamo Co	 25,000
Shaw Tool	 18,200
Small Electric	 75,000
Valois	   10,020
Western Clock	 12,800
Whitehall Machine	 49,770
Dept, of Transport	 25,000
Research Enterprise	 750,000
Westinghouse	 25,000
$	4,374,651
Materials Not End Products
Anaconda	$	2,290,000
Anaconda	 535,120
Anacondia	 150,000
Can. Wire & Cable	 5,200,000
Dom. Foundries	 723,535
Steel Co. of Can	 3,855,000
Metals Controller	 290,000
Metals Controller	 43,687
Metals Controller	 3,000,000
Nat. Research Council	 15,000
Allied War Supplies	 1,000,000
Atlas Plant Ext	 5,500,000
Citadel Mfg	 2,000,000
Citadel Mfg	 2,500,000
Fairmont Co	 7,000,000
Melbourne Co	 1,000,000
Plateau Co	 1,000,000
Research Enterprises	 1,500,000
Stanley Steel	 35,000
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Questions
Joseph Henry Harris: Would the minister give us also the story regarding the commonwealth air training No. 1 depot at Toronto, the small arms ammunition plant at Long Branch, the development at Pickering, Ontario, and the new development at Scarborough? Perhaps the minister could give us this information on Monday next.
Progress reported.
On motion of Mr. Lapointe (Quebec East) the house adjourned at 6.03 p.m.
Monday, February 24, 1941.