1920-03-24

[Stage Direction]
Certain Orders in Council relating to the organization and work of the Department of Health:
1. Order in Council, P.C. 1627, dated August 2, 1919, naming the President of the Privy Council as the Minister of the Crown to preside over the Department of Health, and providing for the transfer to the Department of Health, from the Department of Immigration and Colonization of the staff of the Quarantine and Medical Service.
2. Order in Council, P.C. 1765, dated August 23, 1919, transferring to the Department of Health from the Department of Trade and Commerce the administration of the Adulteration Act, the Proprietary and Patent Medicine Act, the Commercial Feeding Stuffs Act, and the Fertilizers Act.
3.	Order in Council, P.C. 2204, dated October 30, 1919, transferring to the Department of Health the work of the Housing Committee of the Cabinet.
4.	Order in Council, P.C., 2321, dated November 21, 1919, transferring to the Department of Health from the Department of Marine and Fisheries the administration of marine hospitals.
5.	Order in Council, P.C. 2612, dated December 31, 1919, transferring to the Department of Health the medical branch of the Commission of Conservation.-Hon. Mr. Rowell.
General orders and routine orders of the Canadian Militia, also appointments, pro-
TMr. Mowat.l
motions and retirements, Canadian Militia and Canadian Expeditionary Force, 1919.- Hon. Mr. Guthrie.

[Stage Direction]
(Questions answered orally are indicated by an asterisk.)	[DOT]

*Mr. GAUVREAU:: 1.	Are appeals taken before the Board ol Hearing against certain items of the re-classification of the Civil Service dealt with finally by the said board?
2.	If not, is the Governor General in Council or the Civil Service Commission, or both jointly, passing finally on the decisions of the board?
3.	If the latter is the case, what is the use of the Board of Hearing?
4.	Has the Governor General in Council or the Civil Service Commission, or both jointly, refused to confirm decisions of the Board of Hearing or ignored them altogether?


Rt. Hon. Mr. SIFTON:: 1.	No.
2.	All. decisions of the Board of Hearing are submitted to the Civil Service Commission, for final action. In cases where an increase of compensation is involved, the recommendations of the commission are submitted for the approval of the Governor in Council.
3.	The Board of Hearing was established to enable employees of the Public Service to make their representations regarding the dompensation, duties and qualifications to a board, composed of representatives of the departments and the service itself and to give the Civil Service Commission the benefit of the views of men in the service who have made a study of the Civil Service Classification and to facilitate the hearing of complaints and adjusting the classifies- . tion. The Civil Service Commission has expressed itself favourable to the establishment and continuance of the board.
4.	The Civil Service Commission has confirmed all recommendations of the Board of Appeal. The Governor in Council has approved all but one, and in this case the department concerned reported that the office is to be abolished.


PRINTING BUREAU LINOTYPES.
Mr. FORTIER:: 1.	Are there any unused linotypes at the Printing Bureau, as a result of the dismissal of employees?
2.	If so, how many?
3.	Is it true that the Government, instead of selling these machines, tolerates their breaking up and deterioration?


Rt. Hon. Mr. SIFTON:: 1.	There are no unused linotypes at the Printing Bureau as a result of the dismissal of employees.
2.	Ten linotypes are not now operated because they are not required to handle the output of the Bureau.
3.	No.


ALFRED PEAT MANUFACTURING PLANT.
Mr. CAHILL:: 1.	Was the peat manufacturing plant at Alfred operated during the past year? If so, hy whom?
2.	If not hy the Government, under what agreement or arrangement was it operated?
3.	What was the cost per ton of production when operated hy the Government?
4.	At what price per ton was peat retailed to the consumer under governmental operation?
5.	If the plant is now operated hy private interests, what agreement, if any, is there restricting the price at which peat produced at the plant shall he sold to the consumer?


Hon. Mr. MEIGHEN:: 1.	Peat fuel manufacturing operations were conducted at Alfred last season by the Peat Committee which was appointed jointly in 1918 by the Dominion Government and the Government of the Province of Ontario.'
2.	The answer to this question is the same as to No. 1.
3.	At the conclusion of the Government's manufacturing operations at Alfred in 1911 an estimate was made of the cost during 93 working days (not a full season) of manufacturing one ton of peat fuel. This cost, including overhead charges, was $3.05 per ton. This was the cost of the peat on the field ready for loading into cars or into shed. It was further estimated that this cost per ton of fuel would be reduced to $1.82 during another season's work, but at the end of this year (1911) governmental activities in this line were discontinued.
4.	A limited quantity of peat was sold to consumers in Ottawa for $3.50 per ton. It was sold at this low figure, which was below the cost of manufacturing, plus shipping and delivery, for the purpose of introducing this fuel to the public and to get an expression of their views concerning its value as a fuel for domestic purposes.
5.	The Peat Committee has not yet concluded their investigation and nothing at the present has been done concerning restrictions of the, price at which peat produced at this plant or any other plant for the manufacture of peat fuel, shall be sold to the consumer.


MILITIA DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEES IN LONDON.
Mr. TOBIN:: 1.	How many employees of the Department of Militia in London, England, were brought to Canada and placed under the jurisdiction of the Department of Militia and Defence since the signing of the armistice?
2.	How many of these employees are still in the service of that department?
3.	How many of those who are still employed were residents of Canada at the outbreak of the war?
4.	How many Canadians have been dismissed from the Department of Militia and Defence since the date of the armistice?


Hon. Mr. GUTHRIE:: 1.	59.
2.	47.
3.	43.
4.	67.


CONNAUGHT RIFLE RANGES.
*Mr. TOBIN:: 1.	How many acres of land comprise the Connaught Rifle Ranges, situated in the County of Carleton, Ont. ?
2.	From whom was the land for said ranges purchased?
3. What was the total cost of the land?
4. What has been the total cost to date of equipping the Connaught Rifle Ranges?
5.	What has it cost each year to maintain these ranges?
6.	"What has been the total cost of everything to date in connection with the purchase of land, equipment and maintenance of these ranges?
7.	Has any revenue been derived from the land comprising said ranges?
S.	If so, how much per year?
9. Have the ranges ever been used for competitions?


Hon. Mr. GUTHRIE:: 1.	2,717.70 acres, including roads.
2.	G. A. Armstrong, J. Armstrong, N. Boucher, Catherine Burk, T. Burk, A. Davidson, I. B. Davis, Jennie V. Kennedy, J. Lavelle, R. Richardson, W. O. Riddell, J. Scissons, S. Scissons, G. Sparks, G. H. Sparks, W. Smith (Estate), G. I. Scott, G. Taylor, E. B. Whelan, Andrew Whelan, J. Whelan, Thos. Watt, Wilson Bros., E. Y ounghusband.
3.	$206,700.
4.	$770,490.45.
5.	$1,684 per annum.
6.	$986,160.45.
7.	Yes.
8.	Pasturage (tenders called for), 1915, $250, 1916, $250; 1917, $925; 1918, $925; 1919, $925. Total, $3,275.
1920-Pasturage rights transferred to Central Experimental Farm (Dominion Government) .

9.	No, the construction of the Ranges has not been entirely completed.


DEPARTMENT OP MINES EMPLOYEES.
Mr. DEMERS:: 1.	Have Messrs. John Blizzard, engineer, Wm.
Campion and Henry Pereira, draughtsmen, Joseph Keele, expert in ceramic, and Robert Cantelo, chemist, of the Department of Mines, resigned?	,
2.	If so, why?
Hon; Mr: MEIGHEN:
1.	Messrs. John Blizzard, Technical Engineer, William Campion, Draughtsman, and Robert C. Cantelo, Assistant Engineering Chemist of the Mines Branch, Department of Mines, have resigned. Messrs. Henry Pereira, Draughtsman, and Joseph Keele, Expert in Ceramic, have not resigned.
2.	The reason given in each case for resigning was that a more remunerative position had been offered, and accepted, outside of the Government service.


PRINTING BUREAU STAFF.
Mr. FONTAINE:: 1.	How many employees have been dismissed from the Government Printing Bureau since the 1st of November, 1919?
2.	Why were these employees dismissed?
3.	How many of the said dismissed employees are French Canadians?


Rt. Hon. Mr. SIFTON:: 1.	233.
2.	Two employees were dismissed upon recommendation of the King's Printer on the reports, verbal or written, of the officers directly in charge of these men.
Under Order-in Council P.C. 22, approved January 10, 92 notices of retirement have been served, 90 of which" took effect on February I, and two of which were made to stand until further orders.
Under Order in Council P.C. 205, approved January 29, notices of retirement have been served upon 46 employees, and took effect on February 7.
Under Order in Council P.C. 417, approved February 21, notices of retirement were served upon 89 employees, and took effect February 29.
Under Order in Council P.C. kbove mentioned, the names of six employees were removed from the roll of the Department and their positions declared abandoned.
3.	No record.


QUEBEC AND SAGUENAY&quot; RAILWAY.
*Mr. CASGRAIN:: "	1. Is the Quebec and Saguenay railway now
finally completed?

2.	If not, why?	'	*
3.	When is it to be finally completed?
4.	Who is in charge of the road now and operating same?
5.	To what funds are the earnings of the roacl paid or credited?
6.	Has the Government officially taken possession of the road on its own account?
7.	If so, when? If not, why?
S.	When does the Government intend to take possession- of the road on its own account?
9.	By whom was the suspension of the daily trains between Quebec and Murray Bay ordered, last November?
10.	By whom was it authorized?
, 11. Why was this train suspended?
12.	Has the Government since then received complaints and petitions from public bodies and individuals of the county of Charlevoix, asking for a daily train service between Quebec and Murray Bay?
13.	If so, why has the Government not complied with said requests?
14.	Does the Government intend to give effect to said requests? If so, when?


Hon. Mr. REID:: 1.	The work is :still being carried on by the contractors to bring the Quebec and Saguenay railway up to the standard. Until contractors have finally ceased work it cannot be considered as completed. During the time the contractors are at work it is deemed advisable that operation of the railway be carried on under their supervision .
2.	Answered by No. 1.
3.	During -the current year.
4.	Answered by No. 1.
5.	The Department of Railways and Canals.
6.	Answered by No. 1.
7.	Answered by No. 1.
8.	Answered by No. 1.
9.	The suspension of the daily trains was agreed upon last fall after consultation with the Quebec, Montmorency and Charlevoix Railway Company, who suspended theif daily trains in November last.
10.	By the Department of Railways and Canals on the recommendation of Mr. Gordon Grant, Chief Engineer, Quebec and Saguenay railway.
11.	The business offering did not warrant a daily train service.
12.	Yes.
13.	Answered by No. 11.
14.	As soon as business warrants the running of daily trains this service wall be given.


C.G.S. &quot;CHAMPLAIN.&quot;
*Mr. CASGRAIN :: 1.	How many tenders were received for the purchase of the C.G.S. "Champlain?"
2.	"What were the names of the respective tenderers and the amount offered by each?

3.	Has a sale 'been finally made of the said steamer?
4.	If so, to whom, for what amount and what were the conditions of payment?


Hon. Mr. BALLANTYNE:: 1.	Five.
2.	Gulf of St. Lawrence Shipping and Trading Co., Ltd., Quebec, P.Q., $61,050; R. T. Sainthill & Company, North Sydney, N.S., $55,000 (subject to inspection and approval and received after other tenders opened); Thomas A. Duff, Toronto, $31,500; John C. Hearn, Quebec, $4,500; W. J. Thomson, Quebec, $4,250.
3.	No.
4.	Conditions of payment, cash.
QUEBEC-MONTMQRBNiCY AND CHARLEVOIX RAIDWAY.


*Mr. CASGRAIN:: 1.	Does the Government contemplate taking over the Quehec-Montmorency and Charlevoix Railway for the purpose of linking same with the Quebec and Saguenay Railway under the management of the Canadian Government Railway system?
2.	Have there been any negotiations with that object in view?
3.	If so, what were they and with whom?
4.	If not, will the Government investigate the desirability of such acquisition?


Hon. Mr. REID:: 1.	The Government did contemplate taking over this line, >as will be shown in Bill passed by Parliament on May 18, 1916. Owing to legislation being defective, proceedings were stayed from that time to the present.
2,	3 and 4. Answered by No. 1.


BANK INTEREST RATE TO GOVERNMENT.
*Mr. KENNEDY:: 1.	What was the rate of interest allowed by the Canadian banks to the Dominion Government on balances standing to its credit during the fiscal years, 1917, 19il8 and 119.19 ?
2.	What did said interest amount to during each of the said years?


Sir HENRY DRAYTON:: 1. Included in the balances due the Dominion Government as reported in the return by chartered banks published in the Canada Gazette are the advances of Dominion notes against 'securities made by the Department of Finance to the banks for waT finance purposes. Upon these advances interest was paid during the years referred to by the banks to the Government at the rate of 3i per cent and 5 per cent. The interest bearing 'portion of these balances as shown in the Gazette has varied according to the time of year from approxi-43
mately 40 per cent to 75 per cent of the total.
During the flotation of the three Victory Loans in the years mentioned the remaining portion of the balances referred to was increased by payments on account of subscriptions. No interest was paid by the banks on this portion of these balances. Heavy payments were called for from time to time necessitating the holding of large balances until the proceeds of the loan were exhausted, and the banks were unable, because of the large and numerous drawings, in the interim, to place an appreciable part in time loans. There is practically no market in Canada for day to day money, and this portion of these balances could not, in consequence, be made remunerative.
2. For the year ending February 28, 1918, $616,743.07; for the year ending February 28, 1919, $2,381,347.08; for the year ending February 29, 1920,	$3,202,069.05. Total,


SAGUENAY RIVER DREDGING.
Mr. SAVARD:: 1.	What is the cost of the dredging of the Saguenay river?
2.	What is the depth of the channel at low tide?
3.	Is the Government aware that, at certain places, there are land slides which may block the said channel?
4.	If so, does the Government intend to erect protective walls at these places?


Hon. Mr. REID:: 1.	$522,867.41.
2.	16 feet.
3.	No such information.
4.	Answered by No. 3.


PORTAL IMMIGRATION HALL.
Mr. GOULD:: 1.	Are the shingles which are to be used on the Immigration Hall at Portal, Saskatchewan, being purchased in the United States?
2.	If so, why are they not being purchased in Canada, thus saving difference in exchange?


Hon. Mr. REID:: 1 and 2. Competitive tenders were received to make repairs, including the shingling of roof of building, and contract was awarded to Mr. D. Clarke at |407. No information as to where he purchased his shingles. No question of exchange involved so far as the Government is concerned.


THE TEMISCOUATA RAILWAY.
*Mr. GAUVREAU:: Is it the intention of the Government to acquire the Temiscouata railway, which runs from RiviSre-du-Loup to Edmundston, N.B., in order to make it a branch of the Canadian National Railway?


John Dowsley Reid: No.


ST. JOHN RIVER WATER POWERS.
Mr. CALDWELL:: 1.	Has any person, firm or corporation got a Dominion Charter to develop the water power at Grand Falls, on the St. John river, N.B.?
2.	If so, what is the date and what are the terms of such charter?
3.	If such a charter exists, why has no development taken place?
Rt. Hon. Mr. SlIFTON:
1. No information.
2	and 3. Answered by No. 1.


RELIEF AND SEED GRAIN ADVANCES IN ALBERTA.
Mr. BUCHANAN:: 1.	What was the total amount advanced for relief and seed grain in the years 1914-15 in the Medicine Hat, Lethbridge and Calgary land districts respectively?
2.	How much of these advances have been paid back in these land districts respectively?


Hon. Mr. MEIGHEN:: 1.
Land District.
Calgary	
Lethbridge	
Medicine Hat	
Advances. Seed Grain 1915.

Relief
1914-15.

Total

2.	Repayments.
Seed grain principal.	Seed grain interest.	Relief principal.	Relief interest.	Total repayments.Calgary	
Lethbridge .. . [DOT]Medicine Hat .	$ 538,943.43 . 598,983.78 . 400,769.24	$	57,323.11 47,382.62 25,328.58	$ 280,883.90 434,852.67 334,093.44	$	30,036.20 45.007.36 26,299.58	$ 907,186.64 1,126,226.43 786,490.84$1,538,696.45	$	130,034.31	$1,049,830.01	$	101,343.14	$2,819,903.91
Note-__The Medicine Hat land office was closed March 13, 1918, and the land included in
Lethbridge district. The repayments for Medicine Hat district given above aTe up to date office closed; subsequent repayments are included in the figures for Lethbridge district.


LA MALBAIE-TADOUSSAC STEAMSHIP SERVICE.
Mr. SAVARD:: 1.	Does the Government intend to do something to replace the service done by the steamer Champlain between La Malbaie and Tadoussac?
2.	If so, what?


Hon. Air. BALLANTYNE:: 1. As far as the Department of Marine is concerned, no.
""27 Answered by No. 1.


CIVIL SERVICE RECLASSIFICATION TO BE RETROACTIVE.
Mr. STEVENS:: '
1. Having reference to reclassification of the Civil Service, did the Government pledge itself 
to the Railway Mail Clerks' Federation to make such reclassification, when finally passed, retroactive?
2.	If so. to what date?
3.	Is it the intention of the Government to bring in a Bill confirming the reclassification this Session?
4.	Will such reclassification be made retroactive until April 1. 1919?


Hon. Mr. ROWELL:: 1, 2, 3 and 4. It is the intention of the Government to bring in a Bill making the reclassification retroactive as from April 1, 1919.


MONTREAL HARBOUR WHARVES.
Mr. DESLAURIERS:: '
Is it the intention of the Government to go on with the works already begun to the wharves of the Montreal harbour, in Hochelaga Bay?


Hon. Mr. BALLANTYNE:: These works are under the charge and direction of the Harbour Commissioners of Montreal.
The programme of the Harbour Commissioners, as approved by the Government, calls for the construction of a portion of these wharves in the near future.


RECLASSIFICATION OF CIVIL SERVICE.
[Stage Direction]
On the motion of Mr. Ethier:
For a copy of all correspondence, letters, telegrams and reports relating to the reclassification of the Civil Service by American efficiency experts in the employ of the Arthur Young Company; also all documents relating thereto, which have been submitted to. and received by the Civil Service Commission and comprising (a) a list of names who. in consequence of such reclassification and subsequently thereto, resigned from the service; (b) the reasons given in support of such resignations, and (c) the nature of the duties of each person who resigned.
Rt. Hon. Sir GEORGE FOSTER:: This
motion will have to be amended before we can assent to it, for the reasons I gave the other day. . The immense amount of correspondence that has taken place would make a very bulky return if brought down and it would require a small army to look after its preparation for a reasonably long campaign period. There is no objection at all to the passing of clauses (a), (b) and (c), and if the motion is amended accordingly, any correspondence with reference to those three clauses will be brought down.


Mr. E. B. DEVLIN:: I understand that Mr. Ethier has some special cases with which he wishes to deal, and if the minister is agreeable, I think it might he well to let the motion stand until he returns. Motion stands.
UNOPPOSED MOTIONS FOR PAPERS. Mr. BUCHANAN:
For a copy of all correspondence and1 telegrams between the Dominion Government and the Alberta Government relating to irrigation development in Alberta, and more particularly to Lethbridge Northern Irrigation District.


Charles Arthur Gauvreau: For a copy of the correspondence between the Minister of Land's and Forests of the Province of Quebec and the Soldiers' Settlement Board.


FLAX PRODUCTION AND SPINNING INDUSTRY DEVELOPMENT.
Mr. S. F. GLASS (East Middlesex) moved:: That, in the opinion of this House, National Economics demand that broadest consideration be given to such means as may ,be necessary to 43}
encourage the fullest development of the natural resources of the Dominion.
Propaganda waged during the trying years of war for increased production proved a stimulus that justifies a continuance of similar efforts, especially as regards products of the soil, as from this source, possibly more than from: any other, must be created that new-found wealth, so necessary to the up-building of our national structure on broad and permanent foundations.
The exigencies of war have forced upon our country the development of hitherto latent resources, the success of which should impel us to even greater endeavour, so that the country may reap in the most ample measure the economic advantages of all its many and varied products.
To this end further substantial encouragement might be given to extending and developing production in flax, hemp, and other fibres, for which the soil and climatic conditions of different parts of the Dominion, have proven their suitability:
First.-By establishing experimental and demonstration stations convenient to the area within which such fibres have been successfully grown, so that scientific instruction and direction may be given to growers in the most'mod-ern and approved methods of preparing their fibres for the world's markets.
.Secondly. By lending such encouragement as may be needful to the perfecting of mechanical appliances for harvesting the crop, so that growers may overcome the handicap of competition with cheap labour in foreign countries.
Thirdly.-(By scientific standardization and grading of seed and fibres a permanent market may be obtained for our exportable surplus of these products, thus giving our growers an advantage in competing with foreign countries.
Fourthly.-(By competent direction and encouragement (by propaganda) in order that production of these fibres may be extended to all of the provinces of the Dominion, wherein the climatic and soil conditions justify the expectation that they may be successfully grown.
Fifthly.-By continuing and further extending such encouragement as may be necessary to develop the spinning industry in Canada, so that in the fullest measure possible the products may be spun into yarns and woven into cloths within the Dominion, in order that the full economic value of our fibres in their many and varied uses may be conserved within the country.
He said:	Mr. Speaker, this resolution
covers a very wide range of subjects, and I rather imagine that hon. members will surmise at the outset that its latter clauses are those to which I shall more particularly direct their attention this afternoon. I have in the past been very much impressed with the idea that the policy followed in 1916 and 1917 for increased production in this country bore sufficient fruit to justify the continuance of that effort in these times oi peace. During these years, when it was necessary not only to produce but also to economize in the use of foodstuffs, it was shown that by scientific direction and encouragement of production and by concerted action we were able not only to increase to a very great extent food production in this

country, but also by conservation and thrift to prevent the waste of food products. As a result of these two lines of effort we were able to send to the starving peoples of Europe largely increased supplies of food stuffs. Why should not this propaganda be carried on at the present time? I should like to direct the attention of the House to an item in the Toronto Star of last August giving the opinion of Doctor Hastings, the city medical health officer:
Regret over the reduction in backyard gardening in Toronto during the past summer is expressed by Dr. Hastings in the current number of the Public Health Bulletin. The doctor points out that over 1,000 of the lots that were cultivated during the war are now bearing only weeds. In 1.918, he states there were 5,285 back-yard gardens and vacant lots under cultivation, yielding 528,285,000 pounds of foodstuffs, or as much as was shipped to Europe during any year previous to the war.
Th'e stimulus given to production was in evidence not only in the backyard gardens of the cities and towns, but throughout the whole country. It was shown that the well-directed efforts of the Government had achieved their object of very largely increasing the supply of food products. If it was necessary during the years of the war to increase production in order to accomplish a patriotic and benevolent purpose, because at that time millions of people were on the verge of starvation, why is it not advisable to pursue the same policy to-day, when conditions in Europe would justify us, not only from the standpoint of patriotism and generosity, but from the standpoint of our own material benefits, in using every means possible to increase the products of the soil? Let me direct the attention of the House to an extract which I clipped from the Dominion Agricultural Publication, the author of which, I believe, is one of the heads of the Department of Live Stock Industry of the Department of Agriculture. This extract reads:
Farmers should not forget that Canada before the war annually produced one-sixteenth of the world's supply of wheat. That shows us the relative size of the market, and is a measure hy which our live stock men can gauge their own opening. But in live stock the Dominion lags far behind'. It has hitherto only produced enough to feed its own population. Mexico, with a population not quite twice that of the Dominion, annually exports four and-a-half times as many cattle. Argentina, farther away from European markets, and hampered by a 7,000-mile ocean route across the Equator, and with a smaller population than Canada, exports five times as much mutton, and four hundred times as much beef. Denmark, with a population of less than 3 000,000 people, with an area of only 15,300 square miles, i.e., about one-half the size of New Brunswick, and about one-eighteenth the 
size of Alberta, annually exports four times as much pork products as does the Dominion. But when we come to Australia shipping 3,000 times as much mutton, and little New Zealand shipping 4,000 times as much, our Dominion trade seems to fade out of sight.
These considerations should be enough to show that our Canadian live stock development has only just begun.
The conditions prevailing in this country to-day are not peculiar to Canada. We find that Europe, like ourselves, is finding it necessary to use every means possible to stimulate the production of foodstuffs there. Lloyd George, as early as August last, called the attention of Great Britain to the conditions then existing, and I shall quote some pregnant remarks of his. Speaking about that time at a public gathering, the British Prime Minister made the following significant statement:
The Prime Minister significantly remarked that greater production was necessary to enable Labour to maintain the substantial gains it had made during the war. The reduotion in the hours of labour had resulted in a corresponding reduction of output in many lines. If the policy of limiting output is not corrected, Great Britain will not long be able to support
her present population	
Our excess of imports from the United States has cheapened our money across the line. Our export trade must toe enlarged to pay for this excess and to meet our extensive war borrowings in the United States. Greater production is imperative to swell our export trade, and thrift is necessary to curtail the importation of luxuries. Canadian labour, like British labour, cannot maintain a standard of living above the value of its production. The world can he saved from economic collapse only by hard work.
I have been very much impressed with the fact, which seems quite evident in this country, and indeed throughout the continent of North America, that too many men are imbued with the falicious idea that they can find a substitute for work. It cannot be done, Sir, and I do not understand how the labour organizations of the country are going to reconcile their policy with the interests of the farmers in trying to reduce the hours of labour even below eight. How can they consistently appeal to the farmers to produce foodstuffs in order that the cost of living may be reduced, while they indolently lie by, reducing their hours of labour to a point where the cost of production must necessarily be enhanced? Labour and the farm must get together. Their interests are naturally allied; but apparently their efforts at the present time are being ' directed in channels diametrically opposed to each other. No doubt this is due to a lack of proper understanding between them of the respective conditions that prevail in the rural and urban centres. I find that

in different parts of Western Ontario there is at present a tendency on the part of chambers of commerce, boards of trade, and business organizations generally, to seek co-operation with the farmers' interests. They ask the farmers to appoint committees and representatives to these organizations, and both sides are gradually getting together and arriving at a proper understanding of each other's position. Every means should be adopted to foster and encourage sympathy and co-operation between labour and the farmers, so that we. may work, not for individual or sectional advantage, but for the greata national need and the national interests of the country.
Let me draw the attention of the House, Mr. Speaker, to a clipping from the Globe, in regard to present conditions:
" The world to-day is in flux; the ferment of unrest is universal. I believe the course and origin of this unrest is in Europe, and being both political and social, is mainly found in the shortage of food existing through the latter years of the war, and even now existing amongst the European peoples.
There were approximately 300,000,000 people east of the western front concerned with this war, and all Europe, both east and west of the old fighting line, is bare. It is a fact that those European countries, including Asiatic Russia, who were actually engaged in the war, and over whose territories the war was actually fought, produced in 1913, the last complete statistical year, over sixty per cent of the entire bread grains of the world. Taking the four bread grains-wheat, oats, barley and rye-for the year mentioned, the figures strikingly reveal the situation which we of the western world are called upon to meet.
Austro-Hungary, Belgium, Bulgaria, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Roumania, Russia, Serbia and Turkey produced in 1913-
Bushels.
Wheat	 2,059,733,000
Oats	 2-,642,079,000
Barley	1,002,34*5,000.
Rye	1,7 45,4 48,000
Total	 7,452,605,000
The entire	world production for the same
period was-
Bushels.
Wheat	 4,127,437,000
Oats	 4,697,437,000
Barley	*	 1,650,265,000
Rye	 1,880,387,000
Total	12,355,526,000
These countries produced one-half of all the wheat produced in the world, a little over one-half of all the oats produced in the world, more than sixty per cent of all the barley produced in the world, and more than ninety-three per cent of all the rye produced in the world.
Mr. Hoover, of the allied food commission, has recently made the statement that not to exceed seventy-seven per cent of a normal crop may be expected in Europe in this present year. The twenty-three per cent shortage, based on
1913 production, wou.J mean a shortage in bread grains in the war-torn countries of 1,714,000,000 bushels, a shortage so huge that even the unprecedented crops of North America in 1,919 cannot begin to satisfy.-F. P. Mount of the Advance Rumley Co., at the Industrial Congress in Calgary.
There are two important objects which should engage our earnest consideration in the present unsettled condition of things, and the first is, the necessity for disabusing the mind of the farmer of the opinion that there is any possibility of overproduction in foodstuffs, at least for the time being. With that assurance, and with encouragement to produce to the limit of capacity under the present extraordinary conditions, by which the farmers are enabled to receive such plendid prices for the products of the farm, the problem of the hour would be largely solved. Does it not, therefore, seem a wise policy to encourage the farmers by every means possible, to a maximum of production, with the possible assurance that prices will be well maintained during the present year? Man cannot see far enough to say what is going to happen in this world in the next two, three or four years. It is all guess work, it is all more or less a gamble, but we do know that the supply of food in the whole world is far beneath the requirements to feed the population of the world. We know that millions of people are starving and that the production will only in a small degree alleviate the suffering and misery that exist by reason of this shortage which has accumulated for a period of years. I have very much sympathy with the idea that the farmer wants to be left alone and I do not mean that we should interfere or trespass in any way upon the prerogatives or rights of the farmer but I think the farmer himself will concede that with the facilities at the disposal of the Government and with an organization such as they have throughout all parts of the world, it is quite possible to gather information and present it to him in such a way that it will serve as a guide to him in determining for himself the policy that is best for him to pursue. I have not the slightest doubt as to the conclusion that the farmers, as sound business men, will come to when they have these facts properly presented to them.
I am interested in a small clipping containing a statement, the author of which is Dr. C. A. Zavitz of the Experimental Farm at Guelph, showing that not only by encouragement but by scientific aid and training through the agricultural representatives who are now scattered throughout the vari-

ous counties and townships oi Canada, the farmer is led to the adoption of more scientific methods and as a result greater production takes place. Dr. Zavitz says:
According to the Bureau of Industries for Ontario the increase in yield per acre for the last eighteen years in comparison with the eighteen years previous amounts to 20 per cent for barley. 14 per cent for winter wheat and 10 per cent for oats. These increases in yield per acre for the three crops in the past eighteen years would mean increases in the market values of these crops to the province as follows:	Oats. $65,632,441; winter wheat,
$35,239,437 ; barley, $33,795,525, or a total of $134,667,403.
That, Sir, I understand, is not a result attained by cultivating a larger area but it is a result that has been attained by better farming, by the use of better seed and by following scientific directions in the cultivation of the same quantity of land as was used previously. I am not unmindful of the great efforts the provincial departments of agriculture in co-operation with the federal Department of Agriculture are making along these lines and I have no word of criticism in so far as they are concerned, but I do point out that that feature has very materially assisted in increasing foodstuffs and other products of the farm. Having encouraged the maximum of agricultural production, having given all the reasonable assurance that it is possible to give with the information in the hands of the Government that prices are likely to be maintained may we not hope that the national economic value to this country will be so immense and so important that they will be fully justified in the eyes of the people.
The question of waste is also important. During the years of the war we were counteracting to some extent the deficiency in production by economy in the utilization of foodstuffs. We have apparently abandoned that policy at the present time. I realize that at times' like this the people want to be pretty well left alone. Whilst these objects were attained by Orders in Council and directions of the Government, I do think that an educational policy that would point out the evil of unnecessary waste of foodstuffs would not be resented by the people and that it would result in a great saving of foodstuffs. After all the extent to which we can help the countries of Europe which need our food is the extent of our surplus for export and if by conserving what we have we increase that surplus we attain our object to the same extent as we would by greater production.
While we increase our production and economize and conserve our products, it is

important that our people, in view of the condition of international exchange and of the world-wide conditions, should pay closer attention to the use of the products made in Canada. We have a Canadian Industrial Reconstruction Association which has published a little pamphlet or slip, giving as they are called, " Ten Commandments for Canadian Trade." I was attracted to a signboard in the city of Toronto while I was passing through last week. In large letters there appeared these lines:
Canadian Money.
Canadian Made.
Should stay in Canada
For Canadian Trade.
The ten commandments are as follows:
1.	Buy Canadian products. In doing so you develop the home market, encourage factory expansion, provide employment for new populations, and create higger and better markets for all kinds of farm produce. New factories, , expansion of old factories, greater production, more workers and better agricultural markets mean national progress.
2.	Import only necessities, and then only if similar Canadian articles or substitutes are not available. With Canadian money at a discount of from 10 to 15 per cent, exchange with the United States is costing Canadian consumers between $75,000,,000 and $100,000,000 a year.
3.	Produce to the limit in field and factory. Increased production means new wealth, and is essential to the success of any effort to reduce imports and promote export trade.
4.	Co-operate, conserve, specialize, standardize. These are the means to maximum production of high quality goods at minimum cost.
(5)	Develop export markets. Foreign business gives stability to trade. It reduces unit costs, benefits domestic consumers, affords employment to factory workers in times of depression, and corrects adverse exchange by improving trade balances.
(6)	Utilize Canadian services. Ship by Canadian carriers through Canadian ports. Patronize Canadian railways, Canadian steamships, and Canadian banks. Place insurance in Canadian companies. Employ Canadian architects, engineers, scientists, and other experts. Spend vacations in Canada.
(7)	Manufacture raw materials to final stages in Canada. Hundreds of million of dollars are lost annually to the Dominion, and especially to Canadian wage earners, by the exportation of raw materials and semi-manufactured products.
(8)	Use science for the determination of the development of natural resources. Industrial research will reveal new wealth, improve industrial processes, and help to relieve our economic dependence upon outside sources for fuel, iron and other essentials.
(9.) Make quality the hall-mark of Canadian products. In return for public support of the home market, Canadian manufacturers should provide products that compare favourably with imported goods, and Canadian workers should recognize good workmanship and maximum production as their standard.
(10) Be fair to capital. Canadian money should be encouraged to invest at home, and

foreign capital attracted to promote Canadian industrial expansion.
To my mind there is nothing suggested in these commandments that should not commend itself to any citizen of Canada who has the interest of national upbuilding and national development at heart.
Now, Sir, I have said that I think we ought to get together. We want the labourer in the city and the labourer on the farm to get a closer understanding of each other and of each other's interests. Someone has said-I think it was in this House I heard the remark some time ago-that the pyramid of national prosperity rests squarely on the base of agricultural production; that there is no prosperity in a country such as ours that does not have its genesis in the soil. Therefore the responsibility resting on the farmers in Canada demands that they should have increased sympathy and support by every means possible, to the end that agriculture shall attain the maximum of efficiency in production.
The farmers occupy an outstanding position in our social system. They foot the bill for the nation. The farmer is the foundation stone which carries the whole deadweight of the natural structure. In effect he is the national paymaster general. He is the greatest consumer of manufactured goods and the greatest user of transportation. The total production of farms in the Dominion of Canada last year-I think, Sir, this is a significant thing and bears testimony to the splendid energy, the splendid courage and the splendid devotion with which the farmers of this country responded to the call for production-with a population presumed to be about nine millions was equal to the total production of the farms of the United States in the year 1880 when that country had fifty millions of people. That a people of nine millions should produce an amount of foodstuff equal to the production of a people of fifty millions certainly to my mind redounds to the credit of Canada. It will be seen, Sir, that the new found wealth created by the farms of this country in a single year equals the total net national debt of the country. Is that not significant? Does not that bear testimony to the splendid service that agriculture is rendering the country at the present time? Nevertheless it is only a tithe of what may be expected under well directed co-operation and organization through the several departments of agriculture, and the local branches which are being established throughout the different provinces of the Dominion. We are asked for
increased production. This does not mean for the individual more work or harder work, but it does mean more efficient work and a new attitude towards work, a desire to make every stroke tell to the utmost. In a word it means willing, painstaking, and well directed effort, backed by capital and guided by science, to bring our acres to the fullest fertility, to build up and utilize adequately our forest resources, our fisheries and our mines, to develop and co-ordinate our transportation systems, to develop our water-powers advantageously and to distribute widely the resulting power-to check reckless waste and encourage the effective use of all our resources to the end that we may establish better and more satisfying types of rural life.
The waste of lumber is deplorable. As Mark Twain said about the weather we all talk about it but do nothing. Take pine; the value of resin, turpentine, ethol, alcohol, pine, tar, charcoal, lost in this waste represents three or four times the value of the lumber produced but great as is this loss it is modest compared with our colossal fire waste. We have been prodigal wasters, reckless destroyers, mere skimmers of cream If we are tio meet ouir national needs and build up sanely our superstructure on safe and sound foundations we must change the policy which has guided us in the past. Unrestricted individualism must now give way to controlled co-operation guided by a constructive economic policy which shall be nation wide in scope. We must bring to the solution of peace problems the unity and cohesive power developed throughout the war. Sir, let us be a nation of builders, creators, and distributors. Let us be proud of our country. It is time to build, time to unite, time for trade and for brotherhood. Let us be glad we are Canadians and let us stand for Canadian institutions. Let us have a little more patience, a little more charity for all, a little more devotion, less bowing down to the past and more looking forward to the future when Canada will be ripe for a great burst of light and life.
I now, Sir, leave the introductory part of my speech because, as hon. members may have surmised, I have more interest in presenting to them the unusual conditions surrounding that subject Which I have directed to the attention of the House for some years back, viz, the flax industry of this country. I first drew the attention of the House to the very important subject of flax culture in 1916, and the hon. member for East Lambton (iMr. J. E. Armstrong) preceded me in the good work in

1915. While we have very good reason to commend the federal Department of Agriculture-we have received very little support from the Departments of Agriculture of the provinces-1 am still of opinion that that department has not put sufficient force into its work during the last four or five years to fully develop the possibilities of flax culture in this country.


Mr. BURNHAM:: Might I ask my hon. friend if he is opposed to the theory enunciated yesterday by members of the Opposition, that all these matters should be' left to private individuals?


Samuel Francis Glass: Perhaps my hon. friend will pardon me for not answering him now. In a few minutes I am going to direct his attention to a report concerning flax growing, published by authority of the British Parliament, in which a very full answer will be found to his question.
The flax industry is not new in this country; in fact, it dates back three hundred years ago when a Frenchman named Hebert grew flax on the banks of the St. Law'rence, and since that time the habitants have developed the culture of flax for their individual use, and they have become so expert with the hand loom that they are able to weave cloth of the finest texture. Indeed, I understand that robes for the clergy in the province of Quebec are made from these fine cloths.
Unfortunately flax culture has not advanced in this country in any degree corresponding with the importance which it bears to the great textile industry of the world, and naturally the question is asked, Why? I think the duty of finding an answer to that question devolves upon the Government. We have heard it said: Here is an opportunity to encourage flax growing in this country, for the stress of war has brought about conditions that never prevailed before and which should act as a strong stimulus to our farmers to produce flax. But the pessimists ask: How do we know that these conditions will continue for any length of time? How do we know that within two or three years Russia, which formerly produced eighty per cent of the world's flax crop, may not be again producing fibre at such a cost as would make it impossible for our growers to compete?
In answer to such questions, I want to tell the House that if Russia cannot produce a better quality of fibre 3 p.m. than she produced before the war, our growers need have no

fear whatever of being driven from the field. Under the direction of the Federal Department of Agriculture, backed by the persistent efforts of our growers, the cultivation of flax has reached such a high standard that Russia would have to very greatly improve her methods to be able to compete with the product of this country. We have achieved that progress, Sir, during the last few years, and at the present time Canadian fibre is finding a ready sale in the markets of Great Britain, Ireland, Belgium and France, the highest grades of linen being manufactured in Europe from fibre grown in this country.
Now, Sir, I regret our paucity of production of fibre when I realize its enormous economic value to the country at the present time. If this country produced 100,000 tons of fibre at the world's current minimum market price-I say minimum because there are prices away beyond the price I have in mind-the economic value to this country would be $200,000,000. Is not such a valuable industry worth developing? Yet with all the effort directed during the past two or three years towards encouraging the production of flax our maximum production in any one year has not exceeded 3,300 tons.
Some of our farmers felt rather anxious lest with the re-action following peace the price of flax would drop so low that there would be no advantage to them in producing the fibre. Directly the opposite has been the result, Sir. To-day the minimum price in the markets of France, Belgium and Ireland is $600 a ton above the highest price current during the whole period of the war. The whole world is to-day starving for this material. We in Canada have demonstrated that we can grow a fibre of the highest quality, and yet our total production for last year was only a miserable 2,400 tons. It is true that is worth $5,000,000, and including the seed, $6,000,000; but to my mind there is no reason why with proper education and encouragement our farmers should not have produced $50,000,000 or $100,000,000 worth.
Throughout the centuries certain fundamental objections have existed to the growth of this product. Primarily the farmer is of the opinion that its culture is injurious to the land. I submit that if there be one thing a Government can do by proper propaganda work it is to once for all, by liberally advertising in the agricultural press, to dispel this objection. I may say that I do not care very much for

the pamphlets which are issued from time to time, as I think they are a very poor medium of communicating with the farmer. My suggestion would be that the Agricultural Gazette might well be dispensed with. I am convinced that the same amount of money spent in an extensive advertising campaign through the agricultural press would bring far better results.
I find that notwithstanding the discussion that has taken place in this House year after year hon. members are still quite frequently impressed with the fact that the cultivation of this crop is very injurious to the soil, and I think steps should be taken to completely disabuse the minds of our people on this point. In the discussion in 1916 I quoted from Mr. Zavitz of the Experimental Farm, and his opinions will be found in the Hansard of that year. He said:
The actual amount of fertilizing constituents taken from the soil by different crops is an important matter from the farmer's standpoint. To secure this information it is necessary to have a knowledge of both the yields and the chemical composition of the crops. Unfortunately, the statistics gleaned by both the Dominion and the Provincial Governments do not furnish sufficient data for these calculations.
For instance, the Ontario Bureau of Industries has not collected information in regard to yields of seed and straw of flax or of straw of cereals. At the Agricultural College, however, accurate determinations are made from year to year of the yields of both grain and straw per acre of the different farm crops.
Flax, winter wheat, oats and barley have been grown under similar conditions in the experimental grounds at Guelph in each of the past twelve years. The varieties used for these determinations of the comparative exhaustiveness of soil fertility were common flax, Dawson's Golden Chaff winter wheat, Banner oats and Mandscheuri barley. In each case the chaff was included with the straw. The flax was grown in duplicate plots each year with ar, average of seventy-seven pounds of seed per acre, and the average returns, therefore, represent twenty-four tests in the twelve-year period.
For the chemical composition the figures used were obtained from the 1915 edition of 1 Feeds and Feeding ' by Henry and Morrison, with the exception of those of flax straw, which are not given in that publication. For the chemical composition of the flax straw, use has been made of the figures determined by Kennedy in his thesis prepared at the Ontario Agricultural College. The flax was obtained from the Field Husbandry Department, and it was analysed in the chemical department of this institution. The following table gives the average annual yields for the twelve-year period and the amount of fertilizing constituents obtained through the sources previously indicated:
Yield per acre.	Nitrogen N.	Phosphoric acid, P 205.	Potash, K 20.	v ariery.	Bushels and tons.	Pounds.	Per Cent.	Total in crop (Lbs).	Per Cent.	Total in crop (Lbs).	Per Cent.	Total in crop (Lbs).Common.	Seed	18.3	1024	3.62	37.1	1.50	15.4	.95	9.7Straw...	2.45	4900	.72	35.3	15.2	1.02	50.00
I do not know that it is necessary to read the figures; but as they are very important and are the result of scientific research spread over a period of years, I would suggest that it might not be amiss, if, with the consent of the House, the figures were repeated in Hansard. They are very important, as one of the greatest objections the farmers has to the growing of flax is the wrong impression he has that it is injurious to the soil.
I now give the answer, on the authority of Mr. R. J. Hutchinson, chief officer, Division of Economic Fibre Plants, in the year 1918, to the question " Is flax a specially exhausting crop?" Mr. Hutchinson says:
This question is usually answered by our farmers in the affirmative, but this opinion does not appear to be warranted by the chemical analysis which have been made of this crop, showing the principal elements of fertility taken from the soil during the period of its growth. The results which have been obtained by chemical examination have furnished the following figures, which represent approximately the plant food removed from the soil by flax, wheat and oats.
An acre of flax producing 15 *bushels of seed and 2,000 pounds of straw takes from the soil 26 pounds nitrogen, 14.86 pounds phosphoric acid, and 9.28 pounds potash, for the 840 pounds of seed, and 20 pounds nitrogen, 9 pounds phosphoric acid, and 28 pounds potash for the straw, a total of 46 pounds nitrogen, 23.86 pounds phosphoric acid, and 37.28 pounds potash.
A crop of wheat, yielding 25 bushels of grain and 2,200 pounds straw to the acre, would take from the soil 28.5 pounds nitrogen, 12.68 pounds phosphoric acid, and 8.54 pounds potash, for the 1,500 pounds grain, and 12.03 pounds nitrogen, 4.96 pounds phosphoric acid, and 20.57 pounds potash for the straw, a total of 40.53 pounds nitrogen, 17.64 pounds phosphoric acid, and 29.11 pounds potash.

vitality would run out and as good a quality of fibre could not be produced. Therefore each year the grower in Ontario would grow some of this Dutch seed to produce seed for the next year's crop. Saving the seed for fibre purposes was not, of course, a matter of very great concern to Ontario growers at that time, but in the year 1916 Great Britain found that there was no seed available from Riga, and not sufficient available from Holland. They could not produce the seed from their own crops in Ireland, so they commenced to look to new fields for the seed necessary to crop the land for flax. Then for the first time the experiment was tried of using fibre seed produced in Canada for growing flax in Ireland, and from the very commencement the experiment met with success. Year after year it was shown that with the Ontario seed better results were attained, and I am at liberty to say that at seven different competitive shows held in Ireland last year fibre produced from seed grown in Ontario in 1918 won first prize over competitors from the rest of the world. We have therefore developed from the position of baing a non-exporter of seed to the position where last year Canada was almost the sole source of supply for the Mother Country. We have attained an enviable reputation. ^ I can understand that in the stress of circumstances Great Britain and Ireland might say at that time: " This is the best that is available and we shall try it out and see what the outcome will be." The fact, however, that as a result of that seeding we produced a fibre higher in quality than anything produced in Great Britain or Ireland last year is attributable to the merit and value of our seeds, and justifies the very great care that has been exercised by the Department of Agriculture in jealously guarding the reputation that we made during those years. An hon. member, as I came into the House this afternoon, said to me: " What do you want to have done in this matter? Do you want a bonus or a bounty?" I replied: " No, we want scientific direction and help in order to achieve a larger and better production." As I have said before, if Canada is to retain the position she so proudly holds to-day in the production of flax fibre we must not be satisfied with the standards we have at present; there must be constant direction and scientific aid on the part of the Department of Agriculture, and the object must be primarily not so much a larger tonnage but a better quality which is the factor that will count in the home markets and the markets of the world in the years to come. Canada's soldiers 
have won for her an indelible reputation in Europe and one that we have every reason to be deeply proud of, and it is but right that we should also jealously guard our reputation for honesty in the products of our industry by every zealous safeguard that can be devised, and by careful standardization, so that the people of England, who have evinced such confidence in our loyalty to the Empire during the war, will be equally confident, as the years go by, in the honest value of every product which leaves the shores of Canada.. We had before us for consideration the other evening the subject of the standardization of butter, cheese and dairy products. I am a thorough believer in standardization, and my firm conviction is that if we are to get the best results from flax we shall have to aim at higher standards in quality. If we do so we shall more quickly gain a permanent market than by any other method; and I submit to the minister, while I am on the subject the desirability of adding to the standard of seed that is already established, especially in regard to No. 1 extra which will germinate ninety-five per cent. It is quite possible that we have growers in this country who will produce seed of this standard, but while seed that will germinate ninety per cent is of good quality, the man who produces seed germinating ninety-five per cent is entitled to better and further consideration than the grower who produces at the lower standard. I do urge that the highest quality and reputaion that we can attain is a matter of the greatest importance and concern to us. In this resolution which is before the House, referring to what has been already done, I am not unmindful of the energy, the support and the boost which thetDepartment of Agriculture has afforded; but I say-and I trust my remarks may not be misconstrued-that there has hardly been all the "pep" and all the boost which was justified under the very unusual conditions that have prevailed. In other words, I feel that after four years of propaganda and efforts in this matter, we are just about as far as we might reasonably have been expected to have been in one year. We are grateful for what has been accomplished, but we hope for greater accomplishment along the lines to which I have directed the attention of the House during the last few years. The standardization of seed is important, and one of the matters proposed in this resolution is the standardization of fibre. This is nothing new in this House, because it has been constantly urged upon the Government during the past four or five years.

We must have standardization of fibre if we are to build up a reputation in the markets of Europe. For the first time in the history of the industry we have had Belgian, French and Irish buyers right in our country going up amongst the mills and buying our product for the home market. With the reputation which these mills have attained in Belgium, France and Ireland, if we have been able to produce a raw material that meets the needs of these countries, can we not look forward with confidence to greater development and a larger increase in our production? The markets of these countries are literally starving to-day for flax which we should be able to supply. I desire to mention an incident which should be of great interest to farmers. I happened to have a conversation with Mr. Graham who lives in the township of Nepean in the county o"f Carleton, and who is a very successful farmer, farming two hundred acres of land. He informed me that the Department of Agriculture was anxious that someone in the locality should put in fifteen acres of flax last year, primarily to demonstrate that the peculiar climate, soil and conditions of this part of the country were adapted to the production of this crop. Before I proceed, I may say that there are two brothers Graham in partnership and the gentleman with whom I had the pleasure of conversing is Deputy Reeve of the township of Nepean, and a prominent man of enviable repute Yesterday he told me that he finally decided to put in fifteen acres of flax, the Department of Agriculture having proposed that if he would grow a crop, pull it and deliver it to the mill at the Experimental Farm, they would ret it-they do tank Tetting-scutch it, and prepare it for the market, charging him the cost of the operation and giving him the fibre. Now, after paying every cost to which he was liable, charging rent for the land used, paying for the seed, paying for all the labour of pulling and scutching and putting his fibre on the market, that fifteen acres produced a net profit of over $4,000. What was the result? Messrs. Graham Brothers made out of that fifteen acres more than they made out of the other hundred and sixty or hundred and seventy-five acres farmed altogether. They are now establishing a mill in the district of Bow-manville, renting an area of ground at some expense, and during the current year intend to develop about four hundred acres of flax for fibre. This suggestion, for purposes of demonstration, on the part of the Department of Agriculture has brought success to
these men, shown them the possibilities of an industry, and stimulated them to get into a broader sphere of production, so that instead of fifteen acres they will this year have four hundred acres under flax. This is interesting. If such results can be attained in the way they have been attained in this district-and the same results are being repeated in western Ontario as well as around Oshawa, Bowmanville, Whitby, and all those districts-what would be the possibilities in economic wealth if under proper stimulus we grew an acreage of half a million acres instead of a paltry 13,000 or
15,000	acres?
Flax has many and varied uses. It must necessarily be used not only for textile purposes but for many otheT purposes. It will naturally become an important raw material in the industries of our country. Primarily, it is used for linen ;':that is the highest use to which it is put. Flax is used for spinning threads, for linen threads used for sewing shoes, sewing harness, and making fishing nets. The fishermen can use nothing else because no other fibre or twine of any description will stand the strain and the wear and tear. Flax is also used in upholstering in the form of the waste flax or the tow that comes from the fibre. There is a market for it in that way at a price that only the finest flax could bring a very few years ago. There is a large concern in Tonawanda, New York, which uses our Canadian-grown flax, to which nothing is done except breaking through a break and crushing the straw. They use it in manufacturing quilts, and the resiliency of these [DOT]quilts is almost equal to that of the finest down. They also use it in making pillows and cushions. No amount of crushing can take away the resiliency that exists in this material. This shows that there are many and varied uses to which flax can be put. Mr. Archibald, the director of experimental farms, speaking in Toronto not long ago, discussed the question of flax. What did ,Mr- Archibald say? He is reported in the Globe to have said:
"Undoubtedly. We can grow a quality of fibre equal to that produced in Ireland, and the pulling problem has been solved. The great difficulty in the past has been in getting labour for pulling. Hand labour is no longer necessary for that purpose. We have assisted an inventor in perfecting a mechanical flax-puller. That machine, capable of pulling four or five acres a day, is now being made In a commercial way, and it will simply revolutionize the whole flax-growing industry."
I am rather of the opinion that we have not given sufficiently forcible aid to the

two if necessary, and lend his mechanical skill to assist the inventor in overcoming the difficulties which rendered the machine imperfect. However nothing was done and matters went on until the next year. While some improvements were made and people were waiting for the completion of the pulling machine, it was still in an unsatisfactory and unfinished condition. That was the condition last year. I then saw the machine pulling in the field and thought it did marvellous w<rrk. There were certain mechanical difficulties attaching to its operation which rendered it not in any sense a perfect machine; but I am told, Sirt that a large concern in the town of Goderich, Ontario, has purchased all the patent rights of this machine and has improved it by the use of ball bearings to reduce the amount of friction. I am also told that in operating it this year a gasoline engine that will work independently is attached to the binder. 1 have the intimation, Sir, that that machine is now practically in a perfected state, and I am sure it will result in very great benefit to the whole world if such turns out to be the case.
The subject is a pretty broad one to cover in an address of this kind and while it is technical in its nature it is by no means devoid of interest to members generally. Take the county of Chambly-Vercheres. 1 have the assertion of the fibre expert of the Experimental Farm that the soil and the climatic conditions in that county are peculiarly favourable for the development of flax culture. I am told further that J. G. Crawford, a director of the Belfast Spinning Mills, Ireland, visited that section of the country some time ago, in conjunction with Mr. Hutchinson, and was so attracted by the possibilities of flax culture in that district that he has taken steps to. organize the cultivation of, I am told, two thousand acres- at any rate, a large area. Well if our friends in Quebec were able to cultivate two thousand acres at a profit in the ratio of $4,000 from 15 acres, which iwas obtained by Graham Bros, in Carleton county, last year, it indicate the possibilities that underlie the cultivation of flax. The names I have mentioned are those of reliable and responsible men; and if this big concern, the Belfast Spinning Mills, the largest concern in the world, is extending its operations to the provinces of Quebec and Ontario with a view to securing the raw material necessary for its mills in Ireland, surely it must follow, as surely as night follows day, that it will be to the advantage of these mill-owners to have their 
spinning and their weaying mills working side by side in Canada. Then we shall see the flax fibre manufactured into the finished article in Canada and a consequent great economic advantage to this country. Today one-half of the whole export of linen from Irish mills goes to the United States. If Canada is the market for the raw material, would not this naturally be the place for them to establish their mills?
The desirability of encouraging the spinning of yarn took up the attention of this House two years ago, and I wish to refer to the subject of bounties. We recommended that in order to get the industry started some encouragement should be given for the establishment of spinning mills in Canada. No changes in the tariff were considered at that time, but the strong pressure brought to bear by the Imperial War Board for us to produce linen for airplane wings was so urgent that the War Board of Canada recommended to the Privy Council the desirability of lending some encouragement for the spinning of yarn to meet the requirements of the Imperial War Board. On the third of September, 1918, this Order in Council was passed, and in quoting it I wish to point out what I think is its inherent weakness, in that it did not cover the needs of the situation. The order is in the following form:
Whereas it appears-that no linen thread or yarn has come forward from Great Britain since the first of January, 1918, for the manufacture of fishing nets, or shoe hemp for military and agricultural harness, or for the manufacture of aeroplane cloth, linen thread for miltiary boots, machine thread for the manufacture of agricultural and military harness, or yarns and threads for civilian use in Canada.;
And whereas, owing to war conditions it is unlikely that Canada will be able to secure adequate supplieB of linen and linen threads and yarns from Great Britain during the con-tiunation of the war;
And whereas flax of suitable quality and adequate quantity is being grown in Canada, and it- is desirtaJble that the Canadian farmers should be provided with a favourable and satisfactory market for this flax in Canada;
And whereas certain manufacturers of linens in Canada are disposed to undertake the spinning of linen threads and yarns from Canadian flax;
Therefore His Excellency the Governor General in Council, on the recommendation of the Minister of Trade and Commerce, pursuant to the advice of the War Trade Board and under and by virtue of the powers vested in the Governor in Council by the War Measures Act, 1914, and otherwise, is pleased to order and it is hereby ordered as follows:-
That a bounty of three cents per pound be paid on linen yams not coarser than twelve lea or finer than twenty lea, and Six cents per pound on linen yarns twenty lea and finer, but

coarser than forty lea, and nine cents per pound on linen yarns forty lea and finer, spun in Canada from Canadian flax in the three yeans beginning- first day of April, 1919, and ending thirty-first of March, 1922. Such bounty, however, not to -exceed $25,000 in any one year or a total of $75,000 in the three years;
No bounty will be payable under this order on yarns spun in Canada from Canadian flax until the day following the declaration of peaoe, and payment of the bounty hereunder In no event to extend and apply to yarns spun In Canada subsequent to thirty-first day of March, 1922;
In case the amount of $25,000 is not sufficient in any one year to pay the bounty onj all linen yarns of twelve lea or finer spun in Canada under the terms hereof, the said $25,000 payable in any one year shall be distributed pro rata amongst all spinners of linen yarns from Canadian flax in Canada in proportion to the amount of yam as defined herein spun by each during that year. Said bounty being adjustable and payable at the end of each quarter during the time such bounty shall be properly payable;
The prices to be charged for the yarns above mentioned, shall be such as from time to time appear reasonable to the Minister of Trade and Commerce.
Pursuant to that Order in Council a spinning mill was established in Guelph, Ontario, at an expenditure of $300,000, and before the war closed its pro-4 p.m. moters were in a position to guarantee, if necessary, the production of suitable airplane cloth. We have heard, Sir, a great deal about this airplane cloth, and I have here a sample which was produced under the direction of the Imperial War Board. I understand that this cloth, which is as soft as silk and almost as tough as leather, is of a fineness of about sixty lea. This linen was produced in hundreds of millions of yards for aircraft wings, and almost the whole available flax supply of the Empire was commandeered for its manufacture. The reason for its use was two-fold. I am told that this is the only cloth that will take the cellulose for chemical varnish with which it is treated to render it rain and fireproof, and it has also this quality, that if punctured by a bullet or piece of shell it does not rip. Therefore it was a most important article, and every encouragement was given to its production.
As I have said, a mill was established at Guelph, but I understaand that any bounty that may have been earned under the conditions of the Order in Council which I have quoted has not yet been paid, owing to some technicality, such as the non-completion of the Peace Treaty, and that the men concerned in that mill have not been receiving the consideration which is due them.
I have referred to what we call lea yarns, and for the information of the House I 44
would like to state what is meant by the term. I do not know the origin of the Irish word " lea " as applied to yam, but in a little book published by a Mr. Moore, a member of the Textile Institute of Ireland, is contained an explanation, and I shall now quote it;
The yarn is now, so far as processes of manufacture are concerned, practically a finished article of commerce, So without any further treatment, save being unwound in the " reeling room " and being measured on the reels-60,000 yards making a bundle, which is subdivided into " hanks and " cuts." Bach hank contains 12 cuts, or "leas," and each cut 300 yards; consequently 163 hanks are equal to a bundle. The bundles are then tied up In bunches of 3, 6, 9 or 12, according to quality- and so, after being carefully dried by steam in the lofts, the yarn is ready for sale. The finest spun for commercial purposes is about 340 leas of 300 yards each to one pound weight, though it has been worked up to 700 leas for special purposes. The coarsest spun out of pure flax is about 20 leas to the pound.
Thus the fineness of linen yarns is designated by the counts-a lea contains 300 yards "-and the count, grist, or numbeT of lea yarns is. reckoned by the number of leas contained in a pound avoirdupois. Thus if 15 leas containing 4,500 yards weigh I pound the count is 15 leas or 15s. If 20 leas containing 6,000 yards yarn weigh 1 pound, the count is 20s., and 60 leas containing
48,000	yards weigh 1 pound, the count is 60s. In other words as the yarn gets thinner and finer, the count gets higher.
Mr. Moore gives figures of the export of yarn in 1912, which shows what an enormous industry has been developed in Ireland. The total export of yarn from Ireland in 1912 amounted to 17,671,100 pounds, which was exported to Belgium, Denmark, Egypt, France, Germany, Netherlands, Italy, Japan, Russia, Spain, the United States and some other countries. Canada at that time was also quite an importer of yarn, and, of course, Ireland in her own textile industries consumes a large quantity.
Before concluding, I want to refer to the possibility of the development and utilization of straw in Western Canada. The Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Crerar) last year when he was speaking on the subject of flax made a statement as to the possibility of utilizing Western straw which up to the present time has been largely a waste. The Textile Journal of March 2, 1920, which I think hon. members will find on file in the reading room, has an article which I am sure they would be very much interested in. This article, referring to the shortage of paper and the demand for pulp, draws



attention to the possibility of utilizing and the economic value of the waste straw of Western Canada. The article continues:
Cotton rags are selling as high as 15 cents a pound, and high quality material from which paper can be made comparable with cotton rag content paper should readily command as much as $300 per ton. The'United States daily consumes over 1,000 tons of high grade papers. Canada manufactures about 250,000 tons of high grade, bleached pulp, a large proportion of which is exported from the United States. It takes somewhat over one and a half cords of pulp wood to make one ton of pulp, and the demands on our forest consume over 20,000 acres of pulp wood limits per year, in which connection it is interesting to note that it takes from fifty to one hundred years to grow a spruce tree suitable for pulp production. Timber limits are rapidly increasing in value, and with the rapid depletion of the forests, lumbering operations must every year go further from transportation lines.
This situation is of direct interest to the Western farmer, because he is annually wasting about one million tons of raw material from which it has been proved that a paper pulp can be made convertible into a high grade paper comparing well with the linen rag product, for which price and demand are to-day higher than ever before. The material referred to is flax straw, at the present time burned and wasted wherever flax is grown for linseed, the straw crop therefore representing a dead loss to the farmer. In the 1919 issue of the Monthly Bulletin of Agricultural Statistics, published by the Dominion Government at Ottawa, we read; Another question of direct economic interest is the possibility of utilizing the linseed straw in Western Canada, which so far has been found useless, and is mostly burned. Any use that could be established for this by-product, which would increase even to a small extent the total money yield of the crop to the farmer would be a very important factor in extending the cultivation of flax throughout larger areas in Canada. It can now be definitely stated that such a use for flax straw has been demonstrated in the manufacture of pulp (bleached and unbleached half stuff) for conversion into high grade papers. All that is required is co-operation on the part of the farmers in the collection and delivery of straw, and interest of the necessary capital to organize a new industry which will revolutionize the flax-growing problem and at the same time stimulate the important paper industry of Canada with a supply of high quality pulp.
This is no question of experiment. That stage has been passed, and production on a semi-commercial scale has actually been accomplished. Over a ton of unbleached flax straw pulp has been manufactured, and then made into paper in two paper mills. This was submitted to various large paper manufacturers for their opinion, and from them it received the highest commendation. It is thought that the following points cannot fail to be of interest to the Western flax grower and also to the paper manufacturer.
The conditions essential to the successful manufacture of flax pulp are:-(1) Sufficient quantity of flax straw. (2) Suitable mill locations. (3) Suitable markets. Dealing with each of these headings, it is obvious that the

first is of primary importance, the available supply of the basic raw material straw, the possibilities of collecting that supply, and the price at which it can be so collected, are factors on which depend the practical commercial possibilities of this development.
Taking first the available supply, we find that there has been in the past an enormous increase in flax acreage in the West. In 1870, the total Canadian crop was 118,044 bushels. In 1903, this had increased to 884,000 bushels, and this increase continued up to the enormous crop of 25,978,000 bushels in 1912. The fall in prices in the next few years was reflected in diminished production, but recovery has been rapid, and in 1918 a crop of 5,776,000 bushels was harvested in the Prairie Provinces, the estimated crop for 1919 was 7,117,000 bushels, of which Saskatchewan is credited with nearly 4,600,000 bushels. The following table gives acreage and yields for the Prairie Provinces during the past ten years, taken from volumes of Census and Statistics published by Department of Agriculture of the Dominion Government, Ottawa.
That shows the period from 1910 to 1919, but I shall not waste the time of the House in reading the table:
Crops such as those of 1918 and 1919, would each yield over 1,000,000 tons of straw, capable of producing over 100,000 tons of pulp. Canada to-day manufactures annually 250,000 tons of high grade pulp, practically all for export to the U.S.A.
Practically all of this flax is grown for linseed. It is well known that flax cultivation for this purpose is an entirely different farming proposition from growing flax for fibre. For fibre flax a special seed must be selected, and the crop is closely sown to encourage long slender growth of straw with small tops. Special cultivation harvesting methods and subsequent treatment of the straw must be resorted to.
The question of growing flax from fibre to replace the great shortage from which Europe is now suffering, though also a problem of first importance to the Canadian West, is an entirely different problem from that now under consideration, viz:-Utilization of the present supply of straw for paper pulp. With linseed flax, Canadian common seed is used sparsely sown to encourage plant to develop large tops; the flax is cut at a later stage of its growth, and threshed for its seed. The resulting straw is too short, broken and brittle for use in the textile trades and has hitherto been piled alongside the thresher and burnt.
The writer goes on to speak of the establishment of these mills. He says that it is necessary that these mills could be established at suitable districts convenient to the farmer, and in this article, which I will not waste the time of the House in reading, the writer shows that it is quite possible to have the " breakers/* in which the straw is reduced to pulp and sent to the pulp mills, made movable so that they may be moved from place to place, and so that th6 farmer may have an opportunity of delivering the straw from convenient centres.
Arthur D. Little and Company, of Boston, 'who did a good deal of research work in

Connection with the utilization of western straw were, it is to be regretted, compelled to discontinue their investigations, owing, as they say, to the establishment of the Scientific Research Board by the Dominion Government, they thought they were trespassing on the ground of work undertaken by the Government. Dr. Howe, who was chief of that organization, the Arthur D. Little Company, Chemists, Engineers of Boston, Mass., who has a branch in Canada, Writing me on March 24, last, said:
I was pleased to receive your letter of the 13th and also the publication in which your continued efforts to obtain government support are recorded.
We investigated very carefully all that has been done in an effort to use seed flax straw for cordage and textile purposes and so far have had no reasons to change our opinion that such utilization is not economical. We still believe in our paper process and one of these days hope to And a satisfactory way for commercializing that work.
These are the conclusions of Dr. Howe after very careful investigation. Dr. Howe, at that time, also gave a sample of linen paper produced from that pulp, which paper is in quality suitable for the finest bond or bank note paper. Unbleached and in its natural condition and colour, it is a paper of very great tensile strength. It seems to me that with the knowledge already at hand there are very great possibilities for the development of the industry in the utilization of western flax straw. The article that I have just referred to from the Canadian Textile Journal appears to have the authority of the Agricultural Statistical Bulletin of the Dominion Government and therefore I conclude that the statements made therein carry the stamp of official approval.
In conclusion, we are very anxious to develop the industry more extensively in' Canada. We have been able to show that the area in which flax can be grown is not limited to Western Ontario, where it has reached its greatest development of recent years. Splendid fibre has been grown in the Annapolis Valley in the province of Nova Scotia. Different districts of the province of Quebec, as well as British Columbia, in the Fraser Valley and other districts, have demonstrated that they also can grow a very fine quality of fibre, and in view of the enormous value of production at the present time it seems to me that now is the psychological moment to bend every effort towards attaining the maximum of production. In the resolution I point out the desirability of establishing demonstration stations in the areas where flax for fibre 444
is grown. Surely if new and modern machinery is essential in the scutching mills, if new processes of retting by water tanks and other means is necessary to the better development of the industry, is it not incongruous that a demonstration mill should be established at the Experimental Farm three or four hundred miles away from the people whom it is going to serve. I do not know, but I do not think I am very far astray when I say that this demonstration mill has never cost this Government one cent. The profits accruing from a mill doing this work, even as it is doing, would be sufficient, I think, to cover the entire overhead cost. If the Government would establish a mill in the district where fibre is grown for the benefit of farmej-s and millers alike and try and improve the present methods of production, it would be a very great aid to the people who are now engaged in a very worthy industry. I do not think it would cost the Government anything, because the building of a mill of this kind is not a very expensive matter, and the machinery itself is likewise inexpensive. We want to apply the newest and most up-to-date methods so that we can put our fibre on the market in the very best condition. Individuals are not so well able to investigate new processes of this kind as the Government. It is really a research problem, and the Government of this country has already adopted a policy of research on very broad lines, and is lending considerable assistance to research work generally. It seems to me that the only way in which the industry can reach its proper development is by the Government assisting and co-operating with the producers and helping them to solve what are really research problems. Howard Fra-leigh, of Forest, up in the county of Lamb-ton, has been carrying on research work more or less for the past five or six years, and he would take a greater pride in producing a hank of fibre that could beat fibre growing in any other part of the world, than in making $100,000. He lives and sleeps and dreams of flax. He is an enthusiast on the subject, and is well posted, but even his experiments have not been carried to the point where he can say to the growers: We will abandon dew retting in favour of tank retting, even though tank retting increases the value of fibre from $400 to $600 per ton. Suppose as a result of an investigation which might cost even $8,000 or $10,000, we were able to add $600 per ton to the value of the fibre produced in this country. That would mean an enormous economic gain to the country, and would be a tremendous

I
stimulus to increased production. The increased production we would get would justify very generous and sympathetic consideration of this question by the Government of this country. It is three years since I first brought this matter up. The Minister-ot Agriculture in his statement to the House last year said that he had listened with a very great deal of interest to my suggestion that demonstration mills should be placed in districts that were producing large quantities of fibre, but he was going to carry on experiments for another year at the mill at the Central Farm. I must say in all frankness and sincerity, so far as improved methods of retting are concerned we are not one whit further advanced to-day than we were a year ago. We knew just as much two years ago as we do at the present time, and no matter what information the mill may have gained, the people in the West have not got the benefit of it. It is unfortunate that at the present time there is not a proper appreciation of the value to the Civil Service and the country of technical men with scientific knowledge. I wanted a member of the Department of Agriculture the other day to attend a flax association meeting }n London, and I called up Mr. Archibald at the Central Farm. I was told that Mr. Hutchinson, the Chief of the Fibre Department, had to be retained in Ottawa to attend a very important gathering last week of the deputy ministers of agriculture of the different provinces. I appreciated that it was more important that he should attend that meeting than the one at London, but nevertheless the London meeting was an important one too. Mr. Archibald told me that his assistant was leaving. I asked " What is the matter? Isn't he a good man?" " He is an A-l man," he replied, "and has given good service." "Then why are you letting him go?" I asked. "We cannot hold him," he replied, " he has better inducements elsewhere." Here was an efficient man in this important department drawing a paltry salary of $1,500 or $1,600. He resigned his position to take employment in a little flax mill up in the town of Goderich, which mill had only 400 acres under cultivation, but was able to pay him a larger salary than his chief at the Farm was getting. How long shall we be able to hold our technical officers'if this is to continue? These technical men are necessary to the development of the industries of this country, but the Civil Service 'Commission just fix what they think should be the maximum salary for the position, and I don't know but what the chances are that when [Mr. Glass.J
they advertise for a chemist they get a blacksmith. There is not a proper appreciation of the importance of the technical chiefs of departments. I am not referring to the Department of Agriculture alone, but to the Mines and other departments. Day by day and week by week valuable men are being lost to the public service because private industry can afford to pay a better salary than the Government offers these technical men. This is a serious situation. Men with their knowledge and experience are not made in a day. It takes years of experience and training, and men with this knowledge and training are of incalculable value to the country at the present time. I direct the attention of the Government to the seriousness of the situation and urge upon them, before it is too late, to put a check upon this waste of important skilled and technical experts in the department. We should hold these men if we desire to make any progress.
I must apologize to the House for the length of time it has taken me to present this subject to hon. members. I am persistent in pressing this matter from year to year, and it seems that by degrees a few crumbs are being thrown out as a result of representations that were made by the flax growers some four years ago. There has not been a step taken by the Government in the development of this industry that was not recommended in 1915 by the flax growers of Ontario. Step by step the value of their recommendations is being realized, but in my opinion if the whole subject had been vigorously prosecuted in the year 1915 and adequate steps taken to develop this industry the economic value to this country in fibre produced would have represented hundreds of millions of dollars. Now, Sir, I do appeal to the Minister of Agriculture to discuss the matter seriously with those in his department in whom he reposes confidence and who advise him in these matters. The flax growers at a meeting last week in London pressed for the same thing for which I am here urging. Mr. Fraleigh, President of the Flax Growers' Association, in 1915 asked for precisely what I am now demanding. Although I do not say that we should do away with the existing mill, I submit that when ninety-five per cent of the fibre produced in Canada today is four hundred miles away from this mill, and some more than that distance, it is obvious that either the mill should be put to work where it can serve the interests of all, or another one should be established which would be an aid as well as a demon-

stration to the people elsewhere. If we desire this industry to be a success, and if we are anxious to have a large acreage under fibre cultivation, we must present the possibilities of development before the farmer in such a way as will secure his interest. The individual farmer cannot put up a mill of his own, and in no industry to-day is proper co-operation more essential than in the flax industry. Flax cannot be grown in successive years. In some countries it is grown in rotation of five years, and in others of seven years. But if a few farmers had each a small acreage under flax they could cooperatively put up a little mill costing fifteen hundred or two thousand dollars, and they would be in a position to grow flax and ret it, scutch it and put it on the market just as the farmer puts wool on the market. There should then be proper grading and standardization so that the grower would get the -maximum profit from his crop. Tinder present conditions, however, the farmer does not get twenty per cent oi the value of the crop, although there is no reason why he should not get a hundred per cent value; and there are ample possibilities in this industry to induce the farmers to develop the cultivation of flax very largely if the matter were only properly placed before them. The advantage of a demonstration station in the district to which I referred would be that farmers visiting it Would get the technical and scientific information necessary in the cultivation of flax, and possibly in little groups in a commhnity they could establish a flax mill. An important feature of the industry is the fact that it offers a solution of the year-the-round labour problem on the farm. The farmer who has fifteen or twenty acres of flax can profitably employ a hired man through the winter months, when otherwise he might not be able to find employment for him. I again appeal to the Government to give this subject tbeir most serious consideration. The proposal I have made bears the stamp of approval of the I'lax Growers' Association, which comprises men who have achieved success in the industry and who desire to see a portion of that success fall to the lot of others. I trust that at the earliest possible moment the minister, after consultation with those officials in his department who direct these particular branches of industry, will see his way to carry out the recommendations contained in my resolution.


Mr. PROULX:: How many flax mills are there in Canada P


Samuel Francis Glass: There are sixty-four flax
mills; in 1914 there were thirteen.
Mr. -PROULX: Are most of them in Ontario?


Samuel Francis Glass: There are three mills in
Quebec, and the rest are in Ontario.


Mr. J. F. FAFARD (L'Islet) (translation) :: Mr. Speaker, we have listened very attentively to the brief address made by the hon. gentleman who has just resumed his seat (Mr. Glass). His statements were the more interesting to us that this is the fourth time we are privileged to hear them. The only thing tha remains for him, and that is no doubt what he proposes to do, though I refrain from giving him such advice, is to have 500 copies of his speech printed and distributed in his county. However, I -have no doubt that the people of his constituency will be able to judge him on his merits. Had he been in earnest I think it would have been far easier for him to go and see the Minister of Agricultural and to put his question directly to him, and that would have taken but a !%w minutes. As a matter of feet, the hon. member has a motion before this House, asking the Government to deal with the development of our natural resources; but he seems to think that flax alone makes up all the natural resources of this country. As far as I am concerned, surely I agree that we must help all our industries and the flax industry is undoubtedly one which requires great attention, but I would have liked to hear the hon. member speak also of the other natural resources of this Dominion.
,N6w that the war is over, Mr. Speaker, the commercial fight is going to start, and there is no better means to fight this battle than to develop our natural resources. Anyone who has seen the country we live in and who has lived here for a certain number of years cannot but like it, willingly makes sacrifices in its behalf and contributes to its progress. The natural resources of Canada, if we give the words their full meaning, include all our industries.
Canada ihas not only a very large area of unlimited wealth, but it is also a country which can support itseljf if we know how to develop our natural resources effectively. Agriculture is. most prosperous; it is not only sufficient to feed our people, but it leaves also a surplus of several millions for export. Our immense and almost untouched forests, besides providing us with all

we need for building and other purposes, enable us to export every year several million dollars' worth.
Mr. Speaker, in 1918-1 am speaking of the province of Quebec only-we had already eighty-one pulp factories, of which 31 were manufacturing pulp and paper, 26, paper only, and 24 paper and pulp combined. It is -interesting for us to note that in this industry which is but a few years old, there is nearly $190,000,000 invested, and 23,000 workers are depending upon -it.
These figures speak for themselves, and then we must consider that this industry which is but beginning has for its supply inexhaustible forests which are waiting for the woodcutter's axe to ring out the joyous jingle of silver. I spoke of our forests being inexhaustible. For instance if you take an average of five cords of wood per acre, and in view -of the fact that two cords of wood yield a ton of pulp, the district of Lake St. John alone could supply one million tons of pulp every year during 50 years. Moreover, if you -consider that it takes 25 to 30 years for spruce and ba-lsam to develop, the conclusion is that, in spite o'f fires which might occur, the district of Lake St. John alone -could supply our factories indefinitely with one million tons of pulp every year. The same may be stated and with greater emphasis, I think, of t-he country -bordering on the river St. Maurice and the north shore of the iSt. Lawrence. Not only do these districts supply us with the raw material, that is wood, but they also afford us the requisite power for its development-.
We have in this -country the most wonderful water powers of the continent and these have contributed to a great extent to the progress of our industries. You don't need a very observing mind to notice that all our great, industries are located in harbours where they can get cheaper power and greater shipping facilities. Three Rivers is a striking example ojf these industrial settlements.
The city of Three Rivers which was completely -destroyed by fire some twenty years ago, is destined to become one of the chief industrial centres of our Province on account o-f its harbour and the power supplied by the Shawinigan Water and Power -Company, and if I thought it would not displease the hon. member from Three Rivers (Mr. Bureau), I might add: thanks also to the initiative of its representative in the House of Commons.

Our water powers are as inexhaustible as our forests.
'Suffice it o say that the Provincial engineers estimate that- the Lake St. John basin could supply 700,000 horse-power, and, without any thought of being offensive to the hon. member for Lake -St. John, there are not a few points along the north shore of the -St. Lawrence river, which can supply as much.
Inasmuch as I am speaking of the water-powers of the Province of -Quebec I may be allowed to -say -a few words and to place op record a few data about the works carried out on the St. Maurice river,, at the L-out-re portage, with a view to modifying the conditions of this river's water-flow. The information 1 am now giving to the House has been taken from the report of the water courses commission, and -the accuracy of the figure is unquestionable.
The St. Maurice is a tributary of the St. Lawrence river into which it empties itself from the North at Three Rivers; it is about 360 miles long and it has a drainage basin of 17,000 square miles.	[DOT]
The main water falls one meets going upstream are: les Forges, les Gres, Shawinigan, Grand'Mere, La-Tuque, The Rapide-Blanc, the Grand-Cceur and the Chaudieres. Of these three are already in operation. They are: -Shawinigan, Grand'Mere and La-Tuque.
It was in 1909 that the Quebec Government undertook to consider the scheme of regulating the water-flow of this river, and it was finally carried out in December 1917.
This dam is built at a distance of 220 miles from the hydro-electric plant of Shawinigan, forming a storage of 300 square miles in area with a capacity of 160 billion cubic feet of water. This extraordinary mass of water is restrained by a dam 1,626 feet long, having a- minimum width of 20 feet and a -maximum of 72 feet. The height of the top reaches 57 feet -above the natural low water flow of the St. Maurice river, at that point, and 1,335 feet above the sea level.
The weir is 840 feet in length and it can allow a flow of 15,000 cubic feet of water per second for a three-foot wave.
Into the construction of that dam there entered: 71,751 cubic yards of concrete masonry and 720 tons of steel.
The water can flow from the reservoir through ten gates, known as bottom-sluices! Every opening is rectangular measuring 12

feet high by 7J feet wide. The gates are built of steel and they are operated by a powerful piece of mechanism installed on the top of the masonry.
The total cost of these works, including the construction of the hydro-electric plant and of the dams built along the Manouan river, did not exceed the sum of $2,500,000, and to-day they are giving the Provincial government an annual revenue of $191,000; but it should also be noticed that this revenue must increase with the development of the other water powers which shall be extended in a near future.
We have to-day at La-Loutre the largest reservoir in the world. It is almost twice the size of the reservoir established in the valley of the Nile, in Egypt, by the Assouan dam, the capacity of which is 82 billion cubic feet. The Gatun dam, built in connection with the Panama canal, indeed gives a reservoir of a total capacity of 183 billion cubic feet, but of the whole amount of water held back in this dam,, there is only the upper stream that can be penned up without making the Culebra cut unnavigable; the reservoir's capacity that can be turned to account does not exceed from 35 to 40 billion cubic feet of water. We can therefore say with a justifiable national pride that we have the largest reservoir in the world.
Many advantages accrue from this most important piece of work. Besides insuring the workmen against unemployment throughout the year and necessarily contributing to reduce the cost for producing mbtive power, it does especially attain its main object which was to control the river's water-flow. That you may realize, Mr. Speaker, the full importance of the control of that water-flow, I beg leave to submit that 12 tons of coal are required to produce one horse-power, and,, as the additional power supplied by the storage of water on the St. Maurice river amounts to 48,000 horse-power which can be sold to the manufacturers, we may readily draw the conclusion that this construction is now saving
600.000	tons of coal per annum, and three times that amount when all the falls will have been likewise developed.
Under natural conditions,, the St. Maurice river's water-flow, at Shawinigan, was of
170.000	cubic feet per second during the flood period in the 'Spring, but of only 6,000 cubic feet per second,, during the Summer and Winter 'seasons.
To-day we can guarantee these companies 12,000 cubic feet per second the whole
year, round, which is the power required by their industry. The increase given the Shawinigan Water and Power Co., when the water is low, is equal, to 82,000 h.p., which means an average of 32,250 h.p. a year. The surplus power obtained when all the available falls are harnessed will be about 140,000 h.p. per year and 400,000 h.p. when the water is at its low level.
I have given, Mr. Speaker, according to the statistics I referred to, the necessary information about the water power of the Loutre river which is to be called after the name of the Prime Minister of the Province. 1 gave them out, not only because it is interesting to hear about the matter, but also to have the figures placed on Han-. sard. Now that I have given that information, let us see what conclusion we may draw. I said a moment ago that agriculture was progressing in the province of Quebec, but it did not do so itself. It required a campaign of education and we had to send agriculturists throughout the province to teach the farmers what they learned at school. We had to get also a minister well acquainted with agricultural matters and we found a very good one in the person of the hon. Joseph Edouard Caron who is as well known in Ottawa as he is in Quebec.
I spoke of our forests and I pointed out their development in recent years; but to obtain that result the government of the province of Quebec had to adopt a policy such as would show foresters that they were ready to help them. It is with that object in view that the government of sir Lomer Gouin created a new Department which is called the Department of Forest Management, to oversee the cutting of the wood and ensure the protection of our forests. The government is working hand in hand with the lumberers toward safeguarding our forests in the interest of the country. The new department will see to it that no undersized tree is cut. And all this, Mr. Speaker, required a lot of work and the provincial Government had to place at the head of the Departments men who were able to follow a definite policy.
As to water powers, it is about the same thing. They did not evolve spontaneously. A policy had to be drawn up. I remember the time when much power was wasted in the province of Quebec; we were selling water powers without even knowing their possibilities. What occurred in the meantime? The Government appointed a commission of running waters and to-day water powers are leased only after their capacity and industrial usefulness have been ascer-

tained. At the head of that commission, the Government put a most capable and highly appreciated business man and efficient administrator: the hon. S. N. Parent.
If this Government wish to obtain the results as pointed out in the motion introduced by the hon. member who has preceded me, they must do something more than talk about the development of our natural resources; they must act, devise and carry out a definite policy. In this like in any other policy, it is necessary that all the members of the Government be jointly liable and that they all agree to develop the resources of this country.
A conference was held recently in Buffalo by the International Commission and it is announced that on the 6th of April next another conference will be held in Washington to discuss the opportunity of building canals from Ottawa to the Great Lakes. I do not think that it is a purely federal matter. If other provinces want to establish water powers of 5,000 or 6,000 h.p., let them do what we have done in the province to which I belong, that is supply the companies with the necessary funds and bear the cast of the works.
I do not intend to dilate any further on the subject but let me say that I consider that it is the duty of this Government to adopt a clear cut policy. A single minister alone cannot be expected to deal with this matter; all the ministers, all the members of the Government should get together .to promote the development of our natural resources.
Hon. S. F. TOlLMIE (Minister of Agriculture) : Mr. Speaker, I have listened with a great deal of interest to the discussion of the flax industry by the hon. member for East Middlesex (Mr. Glass) and the hon. member for L'Islet (Mr. Fafard). I can assure them that the Government is keenly alive 'to the development of this valuable industry. lAt the present time, however, prices are extremely high-much higher than they were in 1914-and it is probable that there will be a certain amount of settling down when things begin to assume a normal condition. The Government, being seized with the importance of this industry, established at the Central Experimental Farm at Ottawa a mill for carrying on experiments in connection with the various processes connected with the preparation of flax for market. Ottawa was selected for the purpose because it was felt that the experiments could be kept more closely under the eye of the Depart-

ment of Agriculture and of the director of the Experimental Farms. In connection with this work they are carrying on experiments in retting, breaking, scutching and also de-seeding. All this has resulted in securing a great deal of important and valuable information in connection with the industry. Samples are secured from all over the Dominion with the result that they are getting an excellent idea of the quality of the product from the various provinces. After looking at the industry from all angles, and after listening to the very excellent address of the hon. member for East Middlesex, we must all be convinced of the very great possibilities of the flax growing industry. The principal flax growing districts in Ontario are those around London, Chatham, taking in the counties of Kent, Middlesex, Huron, Perth and Waterloo. I have been informed by those in close touch with the work that Ottawa is not a first class district for this purpose. In some years it produces an excellent quality of flax, but it is found that if the summers are very dry the plant does not reach perfection. Quebec gives great promise as a flax-producing province. At Chambly-Vercheres flax grows very well indeed, although some of the very best quality is produced at Gaspe. The Maritime Provinces are also producing first class flax. In British Columbia in the delta land of the Fraser River valley first class flax can be produced.
Experiments are being carried on by the Government in connection with the various mechanical appliances for dealing with this crop. Pulling machines have been experimented with for several years, and I am assured now by one of the most prominent officials in the department that an improved type of this machine is expected to be	ready	by next year	which will perform	this	operation.	In	all parts ofthe world pulling is performed by hand, and	consequently in	a	country suchas ours, where the cost of labour is very	high,	it is a	serious handicap
to the production of flax in competition with those countries where labour is very cheap. I sincerely hope, therefore, that his expectations will not be disappointed.
Experimental work has also been carried on in connection with de-seeding machines. The principal trouble with the ordinary de-seeder has been that it to a certain extent injured the seed, interfering very greatly with its germinating properties. This has now been overcome to a considerable extent, and we are producing seed that is

received very favourably in the markets of Europe.
Scutchers are also being tested out, and after going over the plant and discussing the work with the men who are thoroughly familiar with it, I am certain that what has been accomplished at the Experimental Farm will be of great benefit to the producers of flax all over the Dominion.
As was pointed out by the hon. mover of the resolution, our seed has been able to compete successfully in the markets of the world with the very best seed produced. He has also pointed out the fact that before the war about eighty or ninety per cent of the flax used in Europe was produced by Russia. If you take into consideration the new system of government which is in control of Russia, I think you will agree with me that it will
5 p.m. probably be some time before that country need be regarded as a dangerous competitor in the flax market.
We have a good market in the United States, only small sections of that great country having proved suitable for flax production; we also have a good market at home; and, in addition, we are selling our product in Belgium, France and Ireland. It is particularly creditable that we are able to sell in the markets of Europe, where the highest class of flax is produced and where some of the very finest linens are manufactured.
A large proportion of the seed exported has been carefully inspected, graded and tested as to its germinating qualities, and it has been found that this procedure secures for the grower a very much higher price than we used to receive for seed which was not so treated. I understand that at the meeting held in London last week a resolution was passed asking the Government to adopt two grades, one ninety per cent and the other ninety-two and a half per cent. I can assure our flax growers that when this resolution is received it will be given the very closest attention by this department.
The fibre is rather more difficult to grade, but we are keenly alive to any possibilities tending towards improvement along this line.
In 1918 an Order in Council wak passed authorizing the distribution of 825,000 per year to encourage the manufacture of thread from flax grown in this country, but I have not full information as to whether any of this money has been paid,
it being a matter dealt with by the Department of Trade and Commerce.
My hon. friend from East Middlesex (Mr. Glass) must not be disappointed at the slow development of our flax industry, for the reason that our agriculturists are already educated in the production of other crops very much easier to produce, and which during the war yielded very satisfactory returns. Consequently a campaign of education will take a little time to bring to our farmers a realization of the fact that flax-growing, although giving a good deal of trouble and requiring considerable labour, is a very profitable crop to raise.
With regard to the exhaustion of land as a result of flax growing, this, I think, can be overcome by having a proper rotation of crops. My department fully realizes the importance of flax production and I will see that it keeps in very close touch with its developments and will be glad to render all the aid I possibly can which promises to be of value to the industry. In this regard I wish to say to the hon. member who proposed the resolution that while attending to this matter I will keep in mind his suggestion concerning the "putting of more pep into the business."


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

Mr. JOSEPH ARCHAMBAULT (Chambly and Vercheres) moved:: That, in the opinion of the House, whereas the French language is one of the two official languages of the House of Commons of Canada and many of the members use the French language in addressing the said House of Commons and it is important that all members of the said House of Commons should have knowledge of the speeches so delivered; and whereas a very large majority of the English-speaking members do not understand the French language, and the speeches which are delivered in French do not appear in English in the Debates unless it be in the revised edition some six or seven months after they have been delivered, which is the opposite of what follows in connection with speeches which are delivered in English, the translation of same being published in French in the Debates of the following day; therefore the speeches delivered in French should be translated into English and so published in the Unrevised Debates and distributed the following day.


Joseph Archambault: Mr. Speaker, it is very seldom that I address this House in french. The reason is very simple: A majority of my colleagues do not understand french and, as I wish, whenever I, rise, to make myself understood by all, I generally use the English language. This is

to be regretted, Mr. Speaker, but it's a fact. Therefore, in rising this afternoon, I trust that the hon. members who have so generously supported the resolution embodied in the various Peace Treaties, with a view to protect the Bulgarians and Czecho-iSlo-vak minorities and all the Balkan minorities in respect to their language, should realize the importance of maintaining the two official languages in Canada and of making efforts to learn one of those two languages, that is to say iFrench. It will be the surest means to promote unity and harmony between the two great races of Canada.
I do not propose to retain the House very long on the resolution which appears in my name on the orders of the day. The object of this resolution commends itself to the unanimous approbation of the members of the House and do not know any other proposal which could more efficiently promote the bonne entente.
Let me read the preamble. The first reason is as follows:
Whereas the French language is one ot the two official languages ot the House of Commons of Canada ;
No one will venture to deny the truth ot of that ground.
Section 133 of the British North America Act provides for the use of the French language in this House and foes even so far as to make such use imperative as regards the votes and proceedings, the journals and reports of the 'House. The second reason is the following:
Whereas a great many speeches are delivered in French.
I have notice with pleasure that many hon. members have availed themselves, this year, of the right which they had to speak French. I congratulate them and I believe that when the resolution now before the Chair has been adopted, they may use the French language much more freely, because the English-speaking members who do not understand our own language will be able to read the translation of their speeches the day after they have been delivered. The third consideration is the following:
Whereas it is important that all the hon. members should be made aware of everything said in Parliament.
It is obvious that, in order to properly follow the discussion of public matters within these precincts, all the hon. members must understand the suggestions made on both sides of this House. The forth reason is as follow:

Whereas a very large majority of the Englishspeaking members do not understand the French language.
Needless to dwell upon this. Many are the hon. members who not only do not understand French, but are unable to read it, and this leads occasionally to some very strange happenings. In the course of the session before last, for instance, the day after my hon. friend from Quebec East had spoken in French on the subject of the subsidy granted by the Government, to the Canadian agency in London, I met one of my colleagues, and here is what he told me in English. I shall repeat his very words, as they are so typical:
(Text.) It is too bad that Mr. Lapointe did not speak in English this afternoon, he is such an able speaker and it is always a pleasure for us to listen to him. He spoke in French and the only word I understand was an English word: "camouflage."
(Translation)-Well, Mr. Speaker, is it not obvious that the hon. member who not only did not understand Mr. Lapointe's speech but delivered himself of this ingenuous and candid statement that the word "camouflage" is English, is greatly in need that the French speeches be translated the day after they have been delivered, so that he may take cognizance of them?
May I be allowed, however, before I stop descanting as to whether the majority of the hon. members do understand French, to. congratulate the acting Prime Minister (sir George Foster) on the magnificent speech which he delivered in French at the beginning of the session. I venture to hope that his colleagues will follow his example and that more speeches will 'be delivered in French on the other side of the House, as I realize that some of those hon. members are able to speak our beautiful language. We promise them, right now, to be considerate for the effort which they will make in delivering French speches. I now come to my conclusions which are the following:
In the opinion of this House, the speeches delivered in -French should be immediately translated into English and so published in the Unrevised Edition of the Debates which immediately follows the sitting of the House.
There exists, as regards the issuing of Hansard, something anomalous which has probably escaped the notice of many hon. members. When speeches are delivered in English, the text appears on the day following in the report; and in the case of speeches delivered in French, we have the text also in that same report, the day following. Therefore, the first edition of the

Debates gives the original wording of the speeches delivered. The speeches are printed in the language in which they were ' delivered. 4. day or two after, we have a second issue reproducing, in French, all the speeches which have been delivered. So then, the speeches delivered in English on the eve are translated and reproduced in the second edition, and the speeches delivered in French are so reproduced a second time, two days after; but English translation of the speeches delivered in French and which it is of interest of the members of this House not conversant with our language to know are, are published only seven or eight months later, in the Revised Edition. Consequently, in order to know what was said by members who spoke in French, the members who do not understand French are obliged to wait seven or eight months and read those speeches in the Revised Edition of the Debates, which volumes are kept rather as source of reference and for the purpose of consultation.
.Such is the untoward state of things which my motion intends suppressing and I wish to point out to you, Mr. Speaker, that even the public is aware of it. In an article which appeared in the issue of March 15 last under the heading: "French Speeches in Commons," the correspondent of " Le Devoir" advised the members to address the House in French;'he granted that when debating important matters it might be better to speak English in order that every member might understand, but he went on:
Excepting important occurrences when we must condescend to use the language of the Semi-Canadians, what harm could there be in not being understood or even listened to on the other side of the T'able? On the day following those concerned would always be at liberty to refer to the French translation.
Well, such is not the case, Mr. Speaker. The official translation of French speeches is not to ,be found in Hansard of the day after or the following day; as I said a moment ago, it is only published in the revised edition of Hansard, that is, six or seven months after the speeches have been delivered.
I also contend that the immediate translation of French speeches would be useful to the people because you have no doubt been, like me, in a position to notice that the English papers' very often impute to us statements altogether different from those we uttered in the House of Commons. I had myself occasion to notice in the English papers reports of speeches delivered in French in the House and very often those reports conveyed a different meaning.
Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I move this resolution which will be primarily in the interests of the people and an incentive to those among us who wish to speak French; it will prompt us to use that language freely, knowing that our remarks will be correctly translated the day after and tjiat we shall not be in danger of seeing the statements delivered upon the floor of this House distorted by journalists who are inimical to us and friendly to the Administration.
Mr. J. E. S. E. d'ANJOU (Rimouski) (translation): Mr. Speaker, I must first congratulate my excellent friend from Cham-bly-Vercheres (Mr. Archambault) for having submitted his resolution which I am most pleased to second. I do not intend to speak at any great length, particularly after the spirited remarks my hon. friend has just uttered. Moreover, the resolution speaks ifor itself. No one can deny that French is one of the two official languages of this country. Consequently, we avail ourselves of a prerogative when we urge the Government to have French speeches translated together with English speeches.
For my part, without unduly boasting, I may sa that from the time I had the privilege of occupying a seat in this House, I have always been one of those who thought and still think that the Frenchspeaking members should speak Frqnch in the House of Commons. Therefore this resolution is timely and the Government, I hope, will unhesitatingly pass it.
There is but one alternative. Both languages are official in this county we are entitled to speak French and we avail ourselves of that privilege. But, unfortunately, as the hon. member from Chambly-Ver-cheres said, the majority of the members on the right and sojne of our friends on the left do not understand French. Then, it is most important that speeches delivered in French shoud be translated into English the following day, so 'that our friends and the members on that side who do not understand that language may be acquainted with what we said the previous day.
Since we are upon that question, I intend seizing the opportunity to call the attention of the Government upon what goes on in the several branches of the administration. We notice every day in the newspapers that French has not the place it is entitled to. They refuse to deliver Frepch forms; they even turn aside French correspondence. Well, Mr. Speaker, that is an abuse against which, I feel bound to protest, and

the opportunity appears to me a favourable one.
At all events, by agreeing to the resolution of the hon. member for Chambly-Ver-cheres, the Parliament of Canada and the Government would acknowledge that French is one of the official languages in this country and is entitled to- be spoken in this House. It will be the means of furthering good will between the various elements of the population of Canada, the best means of getting well acquainted with one another and opening unity and concord throughout the country.	.


The CHAIRMAN (translation):: Is it the pleasure of the House that this motion should be adopted?


Sir GEORGE FOSTER:: Mr. Speaker, I am not quite sure but what I could make a better fist at speaking French than I can in understanding it when it is spoken across the floor of the House. Therefore, I have not been able to follow all that my Jion. friend 'has said. The gist of his motion is quite apparent, and the only point that arises in my mind is 'this: I would rather that my h n. friend would not press his motion to a conclusion until gome inquiry was made into the possibility of carrying out what he proposes in his motion in exactly the way that he wishes it carried out. I am entirely in sympathy with the idea that these speeches should be translated and at the disposal of the members in a reasonable time; and if it .be true that it runs to five, or six, or seven months before these translations appear, that is not a condition of things that ought to be continued. My sympathy then is entirely with the purpose of the motion, but this is a matter which pertains to the management of the translators and the publishing of the debates, and is - under ,the Debates Committee, composed of members of both sides of the House. I am informed that to carry out the exact wording ,of the motion of my hon. friend is physically impossible. So my suggestion to him is thait, having brought the matter before the House, as he has done in a very temporate and full manner, he shall not press his motion to a conclusion; that it stand if he pleases, or that he withdraw it, as may seem best to him, and I iwill .undertake that the matter shall be taken up at once and that we shall come to a conclusion which will be faiT .and also which will be possible of being carried out.


Hon. W. S. FIELDING (Shelburne a.nd Queen's):: Mr. Speaker, this motion has

.been. moved and seconded by two Frenchspeaking members. As a matter of fact, it is the English-speaking members who should desire the improvement that my hon. friend is asking for. Of course, the better thing would be-and I wish it were so-that all members of this House could speak both French and English, and in that respect our French friends put most of us to shame. Every one of them can speak and understand both languages, whereas but a limited number of the English members of this House have that pleasure, although the number has been enlarged lately by the addition of the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Sir George Foster.) The only good thing we have out of the Peace Conference is that my right hon. friend has learned to speak French. It is a rather expensive lesson, but it is a good thing that we have some favourable results. But if we cannot .all understand the French language and have the pleasure of listening to and enjoying the addresses of our French friends, the next best thing is that we shall as -early as possible afterwards have thoise addresses translated into English. I heartily sympathize with the motion which, as I have already said, should come from us who are English Canadian rather than from those who are French. The Minister of Trade and Commerce has suggested some difficulties in the matter; these are for the consideration of the hon. gentleman who has piade the motion, but I desire to express my hearty sympathy with the object, he ha.s in view.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: Mr. Speaker, before this resolution carries, I would like to add a few words to the remarks made by hon. members who have already spoken.
I must confess that unfortunately I do not frequently enough speak French in this House; to-day I make use of that language intentionally, because I absolutely recognize that both languages are official in the Canadian Parliament.
I am very glad that the hon. member for Chambly and Vercheres has introduced the resolution now under discussion. It is most important that every member and every voter in this country should have in hand the speeches as delivered both in English and French. If more translators are required, it would be false economy not to appoint a greater number.
I do not want to make any lengthy remarks on this question, but I wish to tell my French colleagues, as has just been

done by the hon. member for Queen's and Shelburne (Mr. Fielding) and the right hon. acting prime minister (Sir George Foster), that I am in sympathy with every thing contained in the resolution, and 1 trust the Government will see that there are no more complaints and that both language are recognised and put on an equal footing in this country.


Mr. O TURGEON (Gloucester) (Translation) :: Mr. Speaker, I which to join my voice to that of the hon. members who have supported the resolution which has been so eloquently presented by my hon. friend from Chambly and Vercheres (Mr. Archam-bault).
It is seldom I speak French in this Parliament and until now I had a good reason for so doing; it was because, when I addressed my colleagues as well as the minister then representing New-Brunswick in the Government, I was always speaking to members who would not have otherwise understood my arguments and who might have been led to believe that I was taking advantage of their ignorance of my own language by not addressing them in a way to be understood; but now that the province of New Brunswick has had no minister for almost a year, now that the hon. the acting Prime Minister speaks French better than I do, I hesitate no longer to use the French language in this House. I am also anxious to criticize a statement made by my young friend while speaking of the province- of Quebec. I would not like tox have Parliament or the country led to believe that there are no French Canadians or French in this House but those who hail from the province of Quebec. I take pleasure in having this House and the country remember that there are also other French Canadians than those who have remained in the home of the French language, who closely observe whatever may be of help or otherwise toward the maintenance of our language. We are here three of us from the province of New Brunswick, representing three counties largely Acadian-French. We are just as much attached to that language as are our colleagues of the province of Quebec; we are therefore in favour of anything that may serve to enhance the French language in public opinion, not only in Canada, but throughout the whole world, and particularly of having the French portion of the Debates of this House translated as promptly as the English, in order that throughout this country, as well as outside of it, the arguments submitted by the members may be known without being distorted by some newspaper men. That is why I heartily agree with the hon. member for Chambly-Yercheres (Mr. Archambault) and the seconder of the motion, the hon. member for Rimouski (Mr. d'Anjou) and I hope my hon. friend, the acting Premier, may find a way-and that is always easy where -there is a will

to remedy the state of affairs now existing and that should not exist.
Mr. J. E. FONTA'INE (Hull) (translation) : Mr. Speaker, it is my duty to support the motion of the hon. member for Cham-bly-Vereheres (Mr. Archambault). I think it is also the duty of all the French speaking members; the more so, as stated by the hon. member for Shelburne and Queen s (Mr. Fielding), because it is a good turn we wish to do to our English-speaking friends who have not the advantage of understanding and of speaking the French language.
Every member sitting in this House has the right, when rising to speak, to be understood, and if, unfortunately, some of his colleagues cannot understand what he says, it is surely the Government's duty to see that the words of such member, if he speaks French, be translated on the very next day, so that all may know what he did say. As states by one of the previous speakers, the French language is official and recognized in this Parliament, it must therefore enjoy the same privileges as the English. Although thankful to the hon. the Acting Prime Minister for his goodwill,
I think he does not go far enough, and that he should immediately tell us that he will take the required means to do justice to every member of this House and especially , to the English-speaking members, that they may be able to read on the very next day the French speeches translated into their own tongue. The Government now presided over by the hon. the Acting Prime Minister have, in my opinion, succeeded in overcoming difficulties far greater than that of finding a larger number of translators.
I know, I am convinced, that much harder problems have had to be solved, and it "would require ever so little good will on . the part of the .Government to settle this question. Circumstances are most favourable, every body is now talking of entente cordiale, every one wishes to have peace and union between the two races of this country; never was these a more propitious opportunity; let the Government set the good example and do an act, not of generosity, but of justice to an important por-

tion of this country's population and find the way to fulfil the demand submitted by the hon. member for Chambly-Vercheres.
Once more, it seems to me that the Government through the hon. the Acting Premier, have no excuse for asking any delay; we should immediately be promised that the matter will be adjusted and every body satisfied. I am fully confident we shall obtain justice.


Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain: 
Mr. R. L. RICHARDSON (Springfield):: Mr. Speaker, I very much regret that my command of the beautiful French language is not sufficient to enable me to reply to some of the very able "deliverances that we have listened to this afternoon, but as chairman of the Debates Committee I shall be very glad to call a meeting to discuss the merits of the suggestion made by my hon. friend from Chambly and Vercheres (Mr. Archambault) if the "matter is referred to the committee as suggested by the Acting Prime Minister (Sir George Foster). It must be evident, however, to hon. members that if the resolution were adopted and put into force immediately, it would be impossible to publish the Unrevised edition of Hansard at the time it is now published. It now reaches hon. members about ten o'clock in the morning, but if all the speeches were to be translated, and especially if during a debate a number of hon. members spoke in the French language, it would be impossible to have the unrevised edition placed in the hands of hon. members at ten o'clock1 the following morning. However, the members of the Debates Committee-I am sure I can speak for them- will give the matter careful consideration when it comes before them.


Mr. A. M. DECHENE (Montmagny):: Mr. Speaker, the motion proposed by the hon. member for Chambly-Vercheres deserves the attention of both sides of the House. Complaints and whispers very often come
to our ears, but with no effective results. In spite of the acting Premier's good will, we are sorry to state that the French language, under any and every form, is being driven out of the Parliament of Canada and from the different Departments. Wherever we find a French civil servant, whether he speaks the language or he is called upon to either translate or transcribe it, he is left in the lurch or he is most unfairly treated.
This question, Mr Speaker, requires to be much enlarged upon and I would like to discuss it at a greater length; but, as it is-now six o'clock, I would move the House do adjourn.
On the motion of Mr. Dechene the debate was adjourned.


Georges Henri Boivin: Before calling it six o'clock I desire to point out that resolution No. 12 standing in the name of the hon. member for St. Johns and Iberville (Mr. Demers) was not called owing to the fact that he wished to have it placed on the Order Paper for to-morrow, under the heading " Notices of Motions for Production of Papers." The hon. member is in the House and desires to make his motion now.


UNOPPOSED MOTIONS FOR PRODUCTION OF PAPERS.
Mr. DEMERS:: For a copy of all letters, telegrams, correspondence, and other papers in the possession of the Government, in connection with the transfer of mail bags from the C.P.R. mail car to the mail car of the Quebec, Montreal and Southern Railway Company, and from the latter to the former, at Iberville Junction, during the period extending from the month of November, 1917, to the month of April, 1918.
At six o'clock the House adjourned, without question being put, pursuant to rule.
Thursday, March 25, 1920.