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[00:00] <sakang> which way is kubuntu 14.10 going? kf5 or plasma 5 whatever they call it. I see alpha1 and looks like it's 4.11 and some 4.13? |
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[00:01] <sgclark> sakang: kf5/plasma 5 will be on a seperate ISO, it is still in heavy development. Well that is the plan anyway. |
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[00:03] <sakang> sgclark: got you.. thanks |
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[00:03] <sgclark> np |
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[02:15] <ScottK> Riddell: I think you should do the maintenance releases for Plasma 5 5.0. The first cycle isn't just about code, it's also about maturing processes and project structure, so I think you should deal with it the same as you plan to deal with such things in the future. |
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[02:55] <jussi> Riddell: [13:53:56] <dvratil> hi, the package from you for Akademy just arrived to Brno :) |
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[02:56] <jussi> :) |
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[03:00] <ahoneybun> Riddell, shadeslayer should I help test neon 5 or 14.10 alpha? |
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[05:19] <ahoneybun> valorie,ping |
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[05:20] <ahoneybun> apachelogger, 14.10 alpha installed fine |
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[05:20] <valorie> hi ahoneybun |
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[05:21] <valorie> contentless ping.... |
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[05:21] <ahoneybun> yay 14.10 installed fine |
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[05:21] <ahoneybun> alpha 1 |
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[05:22] <valorie> nice! |
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[05:22] <ahoneybun> seems I have no insternet but I think I need my drivers |
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[05:22] * valorie will not be jumping into the alpha frying pan |
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[05:23] <ahoneybun> I have a spare macbook |
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[05:23] <ahoneybun> so why not |
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[05:24] <valorie> I decided to give my spare laptop to a friend who needs it |
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[05:24] <ahoneybun> the steam sale is hitting my credit hard lol |
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[05:24] <valorie> this fall after akademy I'll experiment |
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=== wgrant_ is now known as wgrant |
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[07:28] <lordievader> Good morning. |
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[08:15] <mustafa_muhammad> Good morning everybody |
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[08:16] <mustafa_muhammad> Riddell: The link of kubuntu next repo in the wiki is wrong |
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[08:16] <mustafa_muhammad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/Alpha1/Kubuntu |
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[08:17] <mustafa_muhammad> it points to "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu%20Next%20PPA" |
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[08:17] <mustafa_muhammad> instaed of "https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/next" |
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=== OnkV is now known as Haudegen |
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[10:11] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all |
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[10:32] <shadeslayer> good morning :) |
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[10:36] <BluesKaj> hey shadeslayer |
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[11:42] <sgclark> Riddell: good morning, did you get to kgraphviewer (utopic) if so where did you upload it to? |
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=== soee_ is now known as soee |
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[12:39] <Riddell> hola sgclark |
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[12:39] <Riddell> it should be in utopic archive |
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[12:40] <Riddell> I'll take a look at your other packages shortly |
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[12:49] <sgclark> Riddell: Sorry, your search gave no results in archive. It is a depend of massif :( |
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[12:54] <Riddell> sgclark: ah hah, it was stuck in new |
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[12:54] <Riddell> accepted it |
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[12:56] <sgclark> ty |
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[12:58] <sgclark> Riddell: regarding the frameworks build of kde-baseapps and konsole, would adding epoch 5 be an acceptable solution to my problem? |
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[13:07] <Riddell> sgclark: add epoch 4: |
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[13:07] <Riddell> should fix it all |
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[13:07] <sgclark> Riddell: ok thanks |
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[13:09] <Riddell> and I just finally got someone from debian to say using 4: globally for plasma packages would be a good idea, so yay |
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[13:10] <sgclark> ok will do that. this just for apps or the frameworks as well? |
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[13:18] <Riddell> sgclark: just plasma |
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[13:19] <sgclark> ok |
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[13:19] <Riddell> and apps which have packages with the same name in the archive |
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[13:19] <Riddell> I guess we'll decide on other apps as they start to appear |
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[13:25] <Riddell> sgclark: oh they should probably have gone into the beta backports PPA being only beta releases, but it's not very important since there's no stable package for them to override |
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[13:26] <sgclark> beta backports? where is that? |
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[13:27] <sgclark> Riddell: and where is the kgraphviewer? I can't find it :( |
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[13:29] <Riddell> sgclark: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kgraphviewer I just accepted the binaries through New too |
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[13:29] <Riddell> new packages need to be manually checked twice by archive admins, once for source and once for binary sanity |
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=== soee_ is now known as soee |
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[13:30] <Riddell> sgclark: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/beta/+packages for people who want the latest unstable packages :) |
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[13:30] <Riddell> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/backports/+packages for people who want the latest stable packages |
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[13:31] <Riddell> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ppa/+packages (updates) for people who want the latest bugfix packages |
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[13:31] <sgclark> Riddell: thank you, added to my ever growing bookmarks haha |
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[13:31] <Riddell> and https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/staging/+packages for building e.g. KDE SC releases before copying to an archive (same as ninjas but it's public) |
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[13:32] <Riddell> and now https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/next/+packages for KF5 packages and those which use it |
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[13:32] <sgclark> Riddell: thank you, copied to my notes. |
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[13:34] <sgclark> Riddell: with that said, what I packaged should close Bug #1334587 ? did not realize there was a bug report |
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[13:34] <ubottu> bug 1334587 in kgraphviewer (Ubuntu) "Please update kgraphviewer to 2.2beta" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1334587 |
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[13:35] <Riddell> sgclark: two bug reports actually, also bug 1244261 |
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[13:35] <ubottu> bug 1244261 in massif-visualizer (Ubuntu) "kgraphviewer needs porting from libgraph to libcgraph (remove binaries for now)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1244261 |
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[13:36] <Riddell> sgclark: just close that update bug manually, I've already done the other one for kgraphviewer |
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[13:36] <sgclark> ok thanks |
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[13:38] <Riddell> sgclark: massif-visualizer looks like a work of perfection, I'll add that bug to the changelog and upload |
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[13:38] <sgclark> Riddell: ok thanks |
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[13:40] <sgclark> Riddell: aside from adding epoch to plasma stuff, any other priority for me today? Or back to packaging more framework apps |
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[13:41] <Riddell> sgclark: can't think of anything |
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[13:41] <Riddell> monday will have frameworks final release whenever dfaure gets round to it |
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[13:41] <sgclark> Riddell: ok I will be here |
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[13:41] <Riddell> thursday will have plasma RC release |
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[13:42] <sgclark> Riddell: will be here, Fri is a holiday but I have no plans |
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=== OnkV is now known as Haudegen |
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[13:44] <sgclark> Riddell: so just to be clear all of the plasma is the 4.97.0 stuff right? |
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[13:45] <Riddell> sgclark: yep |
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[13:45] <sgclark> ty |
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[13:45] <Riddell> this stuff ignoring the bits with different version numbers http://download.kde.org/unstable/plasma/4.97.0/src/ |
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[13:48] <Riddell> anyone know what's still holding kde-workspace from transition? it's something to do with kubuntu-full but I can get them to install fine http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt |
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[13:51] <shadeslayer> Riddell: on i386? |
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[13:51] <shadeslayer> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration |
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[13:51] <Riddell> mm no, might try that |
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[13:52] <shadeslayer> probably those windeco's need rebuilding |
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[13:52] <shadeslayer> because I recall abi bumps in kwin libs |
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[13:52] <Riddell> yep |
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[13:52] <mgraesslin> shadeslayer: ? |
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[13:53] <mgraesslin> Riddell: btw. kwin/5 should now be completely co-installable with kwin/4 and it has entered opensuse factory *hint,hint* |
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[13:53] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: nothing to be concerned about :) |
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[13:53] <shadeslayer> internal debian ABI bumps |
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[13:53] <mgraesslin> good |
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[13:53] <Riddell> mgraesslin: hmm, interesting, that might be the trigger to put KF5 into the archive if it has a valid user |
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[13:54] <mgraesslin> Riddell: might be an idea, opensuse even suggested to add kwin5 to the WM selection of plasma 1 |
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[13:55] <mgraesslin> though I'm not convinced as kwin5 doesn't support all features for plasma 1 which kwin4 provided |
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[14:05] <Riddell> "Description: terminal program for KDE." I wonder if that sort of description should become "from KDE" |
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[14:07] <Riddell> or dropped |
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[14:09] <Riddell> sgclark: where did you get the konsole description? the one in the kde 4 packages seems much nicer |
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[14:10] <sgclark> Riddell: I can grab from kde4 package, I dont recall now, prolly the frameworks site. I am working on epochs so will fix that while I am at it |
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[14:12] <Riddell> sgclark: don't worry I just did it |
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[14:12] <sgclark> ok |
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[14:13] <Riddell> hmm I wonder if the changelog from the kde 4 package should be preserved |
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[14:16] <sgclark> I waasnt sure as it is another branch |
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[14:17] <Riddell> sgclark: did you start the packaging based on the existing konsole package or just start from scratch? |
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[14:17] <Riddell> that's probably a good detemining factor in whether to keep the changelog |
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[14:17] <sgclark> started from scratch |
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[14:18] <Riddell> lets not keep it then |
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[14:18] <Riddell> hah, debian's weird patch debian-T-addition.diff still applies without changing |
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[14:21] <sgclark> Riddell: do we have a kbzr equivalent for next? |
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[14:22] <Riddell> sgclark: knextbzr :) |
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[14:22] <sgclark> I am practicing my bashy scripty skills with this epoch thing |
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[14:22] <sgclark> thanks! |
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[14:22] <Riddell> update kubuntu-dev-tools to get it |
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[14:22] <sgclark> great thanks |
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[14:22] <Riddell> I have it in my $PATH too |
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[14:22] <sgclark> good idea |
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[14:24] <Riddell> uh oh, massif-visualizer broke my arm! |
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[14:25] <Riddell> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/178826931/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-armhf.massif-visualizer_0.3.90-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz |
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[14:25] <Riddell> ../../../kdchart/src/KDChartStackedPlotter_p.cpp:87:43: error: no matching function for call to 'qMax(double&, const qreal&)' |
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[14:28] <sgclark> yeah saw that, beyond my capabilities |
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[14:29] <Riddell> it's usually pretty simple to fix, just qMax() cast around the double |
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[14:29] <Riddell> but annoyingly my arm server has changed ip or something so I can't log in to check |
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[14:31] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: the server company sent an e-mail to say it was being passed to their special division |
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[14:31] <Riddell> which sounds ominous |
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[14:41] <Riddell> sgclark: konsole looking good |
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[14:41] <Riddell> I added lintian override, the postinst and prerm scripts for alternatives and the do-noting debian patch from the old package |
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[14:42] <Riddell> working fine too, although I had to change the font from sans-serif |
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[14:43] <Riddell> hmm I'm not convinced by oxygen mono for a terminal font |
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[14:43] <sgclark> same |
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[14:44] <Riddell> but yay, first kf5 non-plasma app running good enough for daily use :) |
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[14:45] <Riddell> konsole |
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[14:45] <Riddell> konsole ~ppa3 uploaded |
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[14:46] <sgclark> woot, ty |
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[14:55] <Riddell> apachelogger: how does that kubotu pluin work? what makes it delayed at times? |
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[14:56] <apachelogger> only polls every 30 minutes |
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[14:57] <apachelogger> eean for some reason decided that one cannot have it poll more often than that |
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[14:57] <Riddell> apachelogger: polls what? the bzr branch directly? |
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[14:57] <apachelogger> the rss feeds |
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[14:57] <Riddell> launchpad has rss feeds for bzr branches? |
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[14:58] <apachelogger> sure |
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[14:58] <Riddell> nice |
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[15:00] <Riddell> hmm, I realise I have a discipline problem with added dep3 headers to patches |
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[15:05] <shadeslayer> tsk tsk |
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[15:05] <Riddell> maybe we need a kubotu patch to tell me off every time I commit a patch without dep 3 |
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[15:23] <Riddell> sgclark: in kde-baseapps any idea why libkonq5-templates exists? I see it's there in the kde 4 version but I don't see why it's a separate package |
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[15:24] <sgclark> Riddell: I don't either, just saw they did that in kde4 |
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[15:25] <sgclark> Riddell: do to the sizr of that, I admit I looked at the kde4 counterpart to see what they did. |
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[15:26] <Riddell> that's a good thing to do |
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[15:26] <sgclark> if it is wrong I blame them :) should probably also merge changelogs unless we make drastic changes |
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[15:26] <Riddell> changelog says " Split some files from libkonq5 out into libkonq5-templates which conflict with KDE 3's kdesktop." so it's a historic issue |
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[15:27] <Riddell> on the other hand it probably should keep libkonq-common incase of ABI bumps |
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[15:27] <Riddell> and the whole ABI should be bumped compared to kde 4 version |
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=== toscalix_ is now known as toscalix |
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[15:35] <shadeslayer> Riddell: kde-workspace migrated |
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[15:40] <Riddell> yay! |
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[15:45] <Riddell> sgclark: I guess in copyright files where the script has put " -? konqueror/sidebar/web_module/CMakeLists.txt |
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[15:46] <Riddell> that means you should check to confirm if it comes under that copyright or not |
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[15:46] <Riddell> and then remove the -? |
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[15:46] <Riddell> I guess |
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[15:46] <Riddell> not sure what - or + mean |
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[15:46] <Riddell> presumably it's all documented somewhere |
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[15:47] <sgclark> ALmost the CMakeLists.txt I have checked dont have any copyright in them, I guess they fall under * ? |
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[15:47] <sgclark> all* |
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[15:47] <sgclark> the - ones are excluded, the + ones are included |
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[15:48] <sgclark> I alway double check the - ones to make sure they are listed in the appropriate copyright |
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[15:49] <sgclark> aka go directly to that file and see what copyright it has |
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[15:50] <sgclark> copyright-helper is nice, but far from fool proof. I still have to manually check alot of files |
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[15:50] <sgclark> but with my up and coming elite scripting skills it will get easier |
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[15:57] <Riddell> :) |
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[16:05] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ping |
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[16:09] <Riddell> shadeslayer: deleted |
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[16:10] <shadeslayer> \o/ |
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[16:10] <sgclark> tee hee only one needed epoch added, learned new skills though, so I am happy |
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[16:11] * Riddell admires sgclark's ninja headscarf |
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[16:11] <sgclark> :) |
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[16:13] <sgclark> Riddell: what would be the next app you think, rekonq? |
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[16:15] <BluesKaj> errors installing kde-workspace on 14.10, http://privatepaste.com/425c022733 ...oddly enough -f install fixed this issue on my laptop with intel graphics, but fails to fix the error on my older desktop with nvidia graphics |
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[16:16] <Riddell> sgclark: ooh yeah that would be cool, no idea what state it's in but worth investigating |
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[16:17] <sgclark> Riddell: ok :) working on that now |
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[16:24] * Darkwing grumbles |
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[16:25] <Riddell> Darkwing: don't grumble, give a whistle, things always turn out for the best |
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[16:26] <Darkwing> Wonder how many of these things will be addressed in KDE5 https://community.kde.org/KDE/High-dpi_issues |
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[16:26] <Riddell> plasma 5? someone is taking that on |
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[16:26] <Riddell> sebas maybe |
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[16:26] <Darkwing> I have one of those new laptops with it and finding a setup that works is insane. |
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[16:32] <Darkwing> Is there any UI scaling in 14.04 and I'm just not looking in the right place? |
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[16:33] <Darkwing> I know where the fint scaling is... That helps |
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[16:33] <shadeslayer> voila, new Neon 5 ISO http://files.kde.org/snapshots/neon5-201406271613.iso.mirrorlist |
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[16:33] <Darkwing> But, I can't find any info on UI scaling. |
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[16:39] <BluesKaj> kde-window -manager is broken on my desktop pc, no pagers for virtual desktops etc, no titlebars ...not good |
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[16:41] <BluesKaj> after the kwin upgrade |
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=== rdieter_work is now known as rdieter |
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[17:33] <Riddell> sgclark: new kde-baseapps uploaded, I just grabbed a new version from git for the soname change and added some lintian overrides, overwise packaging all good |
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[17:36] <Riddell> sgclark: looks like Quintasan did some sddm packaging which is in bzr, did you start fresh? |
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[17:36] <Riddell> and does it work? |
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[17:37] <Quintasan> I did and shadeslayer built something on top of it |
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[17:39] <Riddell> pacakging a display manager will need upstart scripts and other foo which I think Quintasan's packaging has |
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[17:39] <sgclark> Riddell: shadeslayer has taken that back over |
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[17:40] <sgclark> Riddell: disregard mine, shadeslayer is takin g the bits from mine that he wants. |
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[17:40] <Riddell> ah, he just went to play his fiddle so I'll guess I'll work that out next week |
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[17:41] <sgclark> He was working on it earlier, maybe go look at his? |
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[17:42] <sgclark> Riddell: [06:49] <shadeslayer> lets see if it works was his last comment about upstart script, no idea what the outcome was |
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[17:43] <Quintasan> Why would we want upstart |
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[17:43] <Quintasan> wait |
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[17:43] <Quintasan> systemd switch for 14.10 or not? |
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[17:43] <Riddell> well whatever boot system we use now |
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[17:44] <Riddell> I hope it's for 14.10, don't think it's happened yet |
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[17:49] <Riddell> new plasma-mediacenter too if anyone is in a mood to package |
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[17:51] * sgclark raises hand |
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[17:51] <sgclark> Riddell: is that for kf5? |
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[17:56] <Riddell> sgclark: don't think so no |
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[17:56] <sgclark> Riddell: ok so build in trusty qt4? |
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[17:56] <Riddell> sgclark: utopic and backport to trusty on qt4 http://dot.kde.org/2014/06/23/plasma-media-center-13-available |
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[17:57] <Riddell> probably a simple update from 1.2 |
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[17:57] <sgclark> Riddell: ok so I can make that a weekend project unless your in a hurry for it, in which case someone else can package :) |
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[17:57] <Riddell> bug 1334595 |
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[17:57] <ubottu> bug 1334595 in plasma-mediacenter (Ubuntu) "Please update plasma-mediacenter to 1.3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1334595 |
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[17:57] <Riddell> sgclark: sure, no rush |
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[17:58] <sgclark> ok assigned myself then, will have it ready for you monday |
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[18:01] <Riddell> awooga |
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[18:01] <sgclark> this does not look right /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/cmake/KF5Config/KF5ConfigConfig.cmake and of course KF5Config.cmake cannot be found |
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[18:02] * sgclark wonders what happened |
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[18:03] <Riddell> sgclark: what's not right? |
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[18:04] <Riddell> the file called KF5ConfigConfig.cmake is right, it's the cmake config file for KF5Config |
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[18:04] <sgclark> see the double Config? |
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[18:04] <Riddell> that's right |
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[18:04] <sgclark> well this package thinks it should only have one config |
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[18:04] <sgclark> bug in this package? |
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[18:05] <Riddell> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/cmake/KF5Service/KF5ServiceConfig.cmake for KF5Service, /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/cmake/KF5Config/KF5ConfigConfig.cmake for KF5Config |
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[18:05] <Riddell> sgclark: which package? |
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[18:05] <sgclark> rekonq |
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[18:06] <sgclark> dies at KF5Config.cmake find_package |
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[18:07] <sgclark> but now I see the pattern, investigating the find_package |
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[18:08] <Riddell> it's always possible there's been some change in frameworks and rekonq hasn't been updated for it |
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[18:09] <sgclark> hmm yeah, the version is wrong, KF5_MIN_VERSION "4.96.0" would that trigger it? |
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[18:10] <sgclark> otherwise looks right... |
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[18:11] <Riddell> maybe |
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[18:11] <sgclark> trying a patch |
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[18:12] <sgclark> blech, nope |
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[18:14] <Riddell> -FIND_PACKAGE (KF5 CONFIG REQUIRED |
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[18:14] <Riddell> +FIND_PACKAGE (KF5 REQUIRED |
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[18:14] <Riddell> sgclark: try that |
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[18:14] <sgclark> ok |
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[18:14] <Riddell> in CMakeLists.txt |
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[18:14] <sgclark> yep |
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[18:15] <Riddell> however if it's not been worked on since May there might be other issues that stop it from compiling |
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[18:15] <sgclark> that fixed that error |
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[18:16] <sgclark> ok, will keep me busy for a bit then lol. I don't give up easy |
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[18:16] <sgclark> it is compiling though, gonna step out for some lunch, be back shortly |
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[18:34] <sgclark> Riddell: it compiled :) is that something we want to send upstream? |
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[18:46] <Riddell> sgclark: sure, just commit it I think, pretty safe |
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[18:51] <sgclark> Riddell: source-is-missing src/data/jquery-1.7.2.min.js but it is there? Not sure I understand this one |
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[18:52] <Riddell> sgclark: look at it, can you understand that javascript? |
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[18:52] <Riddell> it has been minified which means all the spaces removed so it's not preferred modified form |
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[18:52] <Riddell> ignore for now, it should be fixed upstream |
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[18:52] <sgclark> oohh ok |
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=== rdieter is now known as rdieter_work |
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[19:17] <txwikinger> Does anybody have an idea why Qtcreator 3.0.1 on trusty does not show the menubar? |
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[19:22] <txwikinger> ah got it |
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[20:31] <ahoneybun> Riddell, sgclark what would happen if I add the Kubuntu Next ppa to a 14.10 install? |
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[20:33] <sgclark> ahoneybun: it is not recommended to put in on a production computer. |
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[20:33] <ahoneybun> sgclark, tesing notebook |
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[20:34] <ahoneybun> sgclark, so would it replace the current apps with kde5 versions? |
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[20:35] <sgclark> I cannot guarantee a problem free experience. Only a few apps have been ported |
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[20:35] <ahoneybun> sgclark,thats ok is it for testing? |
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[20:35] <Riddell> ahoneybun: but it would be good if you wanted to test |
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[20:35] <ahoneybun> or is it better to use neon 5? |
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[20:35] <sgclark> you will need to put QT_SELECT=5 qdbus to even login |
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[20:35] <Riddell> nah you don't just install qt5-default |
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[20:36] <sgclark> ahoneybun: yes if you are brave, please do test :) and let me know problems |
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[20:42] <sgclark> Riddell: rekonq is ready for your review, this time I just adjusted kde4 debian to work with the frameworks build |
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[20:53] <Riddell> sgclark: great |
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[20:56] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ping |
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=== thelionroars is now known as thelionsleeps |
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[21:02] <Riddell> hi shadeslayer |
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[21:02] <shadeslayer> Riddell: where are you? |
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[21:02] <Riddell> shadeslayer: same place you left me |
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[21:02] <Riddell> this chair is so sticky I'm not sure I can get out of it |
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[21:03] <shadeslayer> Office? :O |
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[21:03] <Riddell> yes |
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[21:03] <shadeslayer> Is Albert there? |
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[21:03] <Riddell> shadeslayer: no he left an hour or so ago |
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[21:04] <Riddell> sgclark: I wouldn't use 4:4.97.0 version for rekonq, it has always been released as its own separate thing |
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[21:04] <Riddell> sgclark: so maybe use 2.5~ |
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[21:04] <shadeslayer> I see |
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[21:05] <Riddell> sgclark: I'd remove any patches that are no longer relevant from the archive |
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[21:06] <Riddell> sgclark: otherwise all super |
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=== OnkV is now known as haudegen |
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=== Don is now known as Guest67070 |
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[22:36] <ovidiu-florin_> Riddell: any news about the server? |
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[22:38] <valorie> [13:24] <Riddell> [14:31:15] ovidiu-florin: the server company sent an e-mail to say it was being passed to their special division |
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[22:38] <valorie> [13:24] <Riddell> [14:31:26] which sounds ominous |
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[22:38] <valorie> we had a lil netsplit, so you might have missed that |
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[22:39] <ovidiu-florin_> valorie: I've missed it |
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[22:39] <ovidiu-florin_> thanks |
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[22:40] <ovidiu-florin_> valorie: do you think this would be ok as a link to my wiki page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OvidiuFlorinBogdan |
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[22:40] <ovidiu-florin_> I'm creating it now |
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[22:41] <valorie> uh, I think personal pages are different |
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[22:41] <valorie> sec |
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[22:41] <ovidiu-florin_> as I've seen from Riddell s page the format is: base-wiki-url/full-name |
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[22:42] <valorie> no, you are right |
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[22:42] <valorie> I'm wrong |
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[22:42] <valorie> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ValorieZimmerman is mine |
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[22:42] <ovidiu-florin_> ok, thank you |
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[22:43] <valorie> take anything you like from mine; it's all lifted from elsewhere also |
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=== thelionsleeps is now known as thelionroars |
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