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[00:17] <blackshirt> hello, good morning |
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[00:21] <Hayate> hello,good morning |
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[00:22] <Hayate> is there class rom this morning? |
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=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: MOTU School - Current Session: RC Bug Fixing Workflow - Instructors: tumbleweed |
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[14:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/07/31/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. |
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[14:04] <tumbleweed> Hello everyone |
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[14:04] <tumbleweed> Welcome to our little Debian RC bug squashing party |
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[14:04] <tumbleweed> glad to see there's already an audience of 2 |
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[14:04] <tumbleweed> anyone else here? please say hi in the chat channel |
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[14:04] <tumbleweed> that's #ubuntu-classroom-chat, which is also the place to ask questions |
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[14:05] <tumbleweed> so, I'm Stefano Rivera, a Debian & Ubuntu Developer |
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[14:05] <tumbleweed> and I'm here to guide you through working with Debian, today |
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[14:05] <tumbleweed> I assume you all know that Ubuntu is derived from Debian |
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[14:05] <tumbleweed> in fact, about 75% of packages in Universe are entirely unmodified from Debian |
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[14:05] <tumbleweed> and that's a good thing |
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[14:06] <tumbleweed> there's no need for those packages to be modified in Ubuntu |
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[14:06] <tumbleweed> the vast majority of bugs that we'd encounter in them are relevant to both Debian & Ubuntu |
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[14:06] <tumbleweed> and it makes sense to fix them as close to the source as possible |
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[14:06] <tumbleweed> that means the least duplication of effort, and shares the benefit as widely as possible |
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[14:06] <tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/ForUbuntuDevelopers |
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[14:06] <tumbleweed> I hope at this point, you are aware of the advantages of working well with our upstream, Debian |
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[14:06] <tumbleweed> (and that I might have written up some of this beforehand, for pasting) :P |
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[14:07] <tumbleweed> so, what are we here to do today? |
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[14:07] <tumbleweed> Debain has frozen their next release, wheezy, and is now trying to fix all the remaining RC bugs in it |
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[14:07] <tumbleweed> we're going to try and help with that |
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[14:07] <tumbleweed> a lot of these are also relevant to Ubuntu, and it's generally in our interest for Debian to release quickly |
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[14:07] <tumbleweed> what's an RC bug? |
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[14:07] <tumbleweed> the Debian Release team has helpfully defined that for us |
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[14:07] <tumbleweed> http://release.debian.org/wheezy/rc_policy.txt |
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[14:07] <tumbleweed> how many need to still be fixed? |
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[14:07] <tumbleweed> far too many: http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ |
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[14:07] <tumbleweed> we need to get the green line down to zero |
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[14:08] <tumbleweed> everyone still with me? |
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[14:08] <tumbleweed> what's the best way to find RC bugs? |
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[14:09] <tumbleweed> I suggest using this search: http://deb.li/fOvv |
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[14:09] <tumbleweed> that should find issues that are blocking the release of wheezy, and nobody has looked at yet |
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[14:09] <tumbleweed> if anyone has any more questions about that search interface, please ask me |
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[14:09] <tumbleweed> here's another query that may be interesting to us: http://deb.li/3Yc7n |
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[14:09] <tumbleweed> that will list bugs that may have been fixed in Ubuntu, but the patch hasn't been forwarded to Debian |
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[14:09] <tumbleweed> many of the bugs you'll see on these lists are not trivial to fix |
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[14:09] <tumbleweed> there's a reason that they've been open for a long time, and nobody has fixed them |
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[14:09] <tumbleweed> so, if you want to find something easy to work on, it's often best to look at 10 of them, and pick the easiest one |
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[14:09] <tumbleweed> but, of course, they all need to be fixed :) |
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[14:10] <tumbleweed> (or found to be not actually blocking bugs) |
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[14:10] <tumbleweed> how do you go about fixing these issues? |
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[14:10] <tumbleweed> I'm afraid there are way too many types of RC bug for me to answer that |
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[14:10] <tumbleweed> but we can take that on a case-by-case basis, if you point to a bug you aren't sure how to deal with, I'm sure someone can suggest the answer |
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[14:11] <tumbleweed> I can briefly explain the procedures |
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[14:11] <tumbleweed> when Debian is frozen, Debian package maintainers are strongly encouraged not to upload anything to unstable, that won't end up in the frozen release |
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[14:11] <tumbleweed> so, for most packages, the same version should be present in both unstable, and testing |
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[14:12] <tumbleweed> (if you don't know about debian testing, packages automatically migrate from unstable to testing after 10 days, if there are no issues that should stop the migration) |
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[14:12] <tumbleweed> but during the freeze, this is disabled |
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[14:12] <tumbleweed> we'll fix it in unstable, and then ask the release team to let it migrate through to testing |
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[14:12] <tumbleweed> this means that the fix should be as minimal as possible, as the release team will have to review it |
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[14:12] <tumbleweed> it should also be minimal, if we intend to NMU (non-maintainer upload) it |
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[14:14] <tumbleweed> the chat channel seems deathly silent, am I going way too fast? |
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[14:15] <tumbleweed> So: |
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[14:15] <tumbleweed> verify that the bug exists in wheezy (testing), and that the version is the same as unstable |
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[14:15] <tumbleweed> it may be so trivially obvious that it doesn't need to be verifified |
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[14:15] <tumbleweed> or it has enough commenters / logs to be sure it's real |
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[14:16] <tumbleweed> if not, you can always fire up a chroot / vm (and people around here can help you set that all up) |
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[14:16] <tumbleweed> You can see more information about the package at http://packages.qa.debian.org/$PACKAGENAME |
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[14:16] <tumbleweed> (when I say $packagename in this talk, I mean source package) |
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[14:16] <tumbleweed> or run rmadison -u debian $package |
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[14:17] <tumbleweed> pull-debian-source $package |
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[14:17] <tumbleweed> should get you the current source |
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[14:17] <tumbleweed> then you get to fix it (that's the easy bit, right? :) |
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[14:17] <tumbleweed> test-build against sid (unstable) |
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[14:17] <tumbleweed> generate a debdiff, and attach it to the bug, tagging the bug +patch |
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[14:17] <tumbleweed> has anyone here never used debian's bugtracker before? |
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[14:18] <tumbleweed> (it's probably very different to anything you are used to, so I can give you a crash course in it) |
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[14:20] <tumbleweed> it's worth noting that debbugs recently gained a new feature. You can now tag a bug +patch by making the first line of your e-mail |
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[14:20] <tumbleweed> Tags: +patch |
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[14:20] <tumbleweed> and then a blank line |
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[14:21] <tumbleweed> (in other words, all e-mail to debbugs can now take pseudo-headers) |
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[14:21] <tumbleweed> no need no cc control@bugs.debian.org |
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[14:23] <tumbleweed> right. So. Once you've attached a patch to a bug and tagged it patch |
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[14:23] <tumbleweed> Chances are a Debian Developer who's looking at RC bugs will notice it and sponsor it, fairly quickly. |
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[14:23] <tumbleweed> But you can also ask for sponsorship. Usually, #debian-mentors on irc.debian.org is a good place. |
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[14:23] <tumbleweed> #ubuntu-motu / #ubuntu-devel would work too (be clear that it's a debian bug that you are looking for a sponsor for) |
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[14:23] <tumbleweed> and today, you can raise it in the classroom chat channel |
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[14:24] <tumbleweed> ok, that's everything I intended to cover in classroom style |
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[14:24] <tumbleweed> now, I'm entirely open to questions |
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[14:33] <ClassBot> Rcart asked: Fixed bugs are automatically removed from those lists? |
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[14:33] <tumbleweed> yes |
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[14:34] <tumbleweed> the RC bug search like I gave you doesn't ignore bugs which arceh marked as done |
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[14:34] <tumbleweed> *are |
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[14:34] <tumbleweed> (which is the traditional way to mark a bug as fixed) |
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[14:34] <tumbleweed> but instead relies on debbugs (the debian bugtracking system)'s version tracking feature |
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[14:35] <tumbleweed> it knows which version of a package a bug was found in, and wwhich in was fixed in |
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[14:35] <tumbleweed> (when people close bugs in the changelog, that is) |
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[14:36] <tumbleweed> you asked about logkeys |
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[14:36] <tumbleweed> $ rmadison -u debian logkeys logkeys | 0.1.0-1 | squeeze | source, amd64, armel, i386, ia64, mips, mipsel, powerpc, sparc logkeys | 0.1.0-1 | wheezy | source, amd64, armel, i386, ia64, mips, mipsel, powerpc, sparc logkeys | 0.1.0-1 | sid | source, mips, mipsel logkeys | 0.1.1a-3 | sid | source, amd64, armel, armhf, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc |
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[14:36] <tumbleweed> erk, that wasn't pretty |
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[14:36] <tumbleweed> http://packages.qa.debian.org/l/logkeys.html |
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[14:37] <tumbleweed> you can see the fixed version hasn't entered testing yet |
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[14:37] <tumbleweed> because it didn't build on some architectures |
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[14:38] <tumbleweed> https://buildd.debian.org/status/logs.php?pkg=logkeys |
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[14:38] <tumbleweed> it successfully built on some architectures in the past, that it isn't building on now |
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[14:38] <tumbleweed> so those old versions are holding the new ones back |
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[14:43] <ClassBot> chilicuil asked: all the rc bugs must be corrected in debian?, what about unity or some projects specific to ubuntu, can they be defined as RC?, if so, how can I find them? |
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[14:43] <tumbleweed> chilicuil: to answer the example first: unity isn't in Debian |
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[14:44] <tumbleweed> (although hopefully it will be, at same point) |
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[14:44] <tumbleweed> Ubuntu has its own definition of RC bugs |
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[14:44] <tumbleweed> but Ubuntu doesn't require all RC bugs to be fixed before releasing |
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[14:44] <tumbleweed> we do a time-based release, where we release on a particular day |
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[14:45] <tumbleweed> and do our best to fix all the show-stopper bugs before that date |
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[14:45] <tumbleweed> we'd love to fix all our RC bugs, but one can't do that and regular, timely, releases |
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[14:46] <tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance describes Ubuntu's bug importance levels |
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[14:47] <tumbleweed> but our RC bugs are usually bugs that are noticed during ISO testing. i.e. bugs that actually block releasing |
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[14:47] <tumbleweed> that and bugs that are critical enough that the release team is informed of them |
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[14:50] <ClassBot> UndiFineD asked: looking at the number of rc-bugs, the number seems to decrease, how many are caused by kfreebsd and can i easily check that ? |
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[14:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. |
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[14:52] <tumbleweed> so, yes, Debian is releasing with kfreebsd as supported architectures, in wheezy |
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[14:52] <tumbleweed> http://release.debian.org/wheezy/arch_qualify.html |
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[14:53] <tumbleweed> the number decreases, because people put attention into fixing them |
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[14:53] <tumbleweed> (although, it generally climbs a bit after the freeze, as people notice bugs in all the last-minute uploads) |
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[14:54] <tumbleweed> freezing testing means developers aren't introducing new bugs (hopefully), and effort should mostly go into RC bug fixing |
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[14:55] <tumbleweed> as to bugs caused by kfreebsd. I see a bunch of usertags that may be helpful in finding them |
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[14:55] <tumbleweed> http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/bts-usertags.cgi?user=&tag=*kfreebsd* |
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[14:55] <tumbleweed> of course, not all of those will be RC |
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[14:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. |
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[14:56] <tumbleweed> and many architecture-specific RC bugs can be solved by removing the binary packages from that architecture |
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[14:56] <tumbleweed> (assuming they have no significant reverse dependencies) |
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[14:56] <ClassBot> Rcart asked: can we use ubuntu's procedure to fix bugs in Debian? Like setting up an instance of Debian in pbuilder? I mean, fixing Debian bugs from Ubuntu? |
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[14:57] <tumbleweed> yes, you can easily set up a debian chroot in pbuilder |
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[14:57] <tumbleweed> pbuilder-dist create sid |
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[14:57] <tumbleweed> should work |
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[14:58] <tumbleweed> Debian and Ubuntu are incredibly similar, under the hood |
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[15:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/07/31/%23ubuntu-classroom.html |
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=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || |
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[15:01] <tumbleweed> I guess that's it everyone. Thanks |
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