2012/02/23/#ubuntu-community-team.txt

[00:00] <jcastro> heh
[00:00] <jcastro> man
[00:00] <jcastro> you know what band is awesome and I had no idea?
[00:00] <jcastro> UFO
[00:00] <jcastro> they totally rock
[00:00] <jcastro> it's like on the Boneyard every hour
[00:01] <snap-l> haven't heard a lick
[00:01] <snap-l> will check it out
[00:02] <snap-l> jcastro: You checked out Yes or King Crimson?
[00:02] <jcastro> yeah
[00:02] <jcastro> nothing sticks out at me yet
[00:03] <snap-l> Not sure what happened, but in the last year I've picked up substantial bits of their catalog
[00:03] <jcastro> but it's in my rotation
[00:03] <snap-l> CLoser to the edge
[00:03] <snap-l> pick up the whole album
[00:03] <snap-l> and Yes Album
[00:03] <jcastro> so I don't know what it is about Yes I don't like, maybe it's just me, but it sounds "overproduced"
[00:03] <snap-l> Bah, I mean Close TO THe Edge
[00:03] <jcastro> if that's even a word
[00:03] <jcastro> it's like, too .... you know
[00:04] <snap-l> 90125 was overproduced
[00:04] <jcastro> "fake" I guess?
[00:04] <snap-l> (but I like that)
[00:04] <snap-l> Trust me, they're not fake
[00:04] <jcastro> it sounds like freaking Roll the Bones
[00:04] <jcastro> where they don't even sound like real instruments
[00:04] <snap-l> WHat's wrong with RTB?
[00:04] <jcastro> just like a bit too perfect.
[00:05] <jcastro> where it doesn't sound real
[00:05] <jcastro> ok, RTB was over the top, maybe more like Presto, that one sounded too synth
[00:05] <snap-l> the remaster is a titch better
[00:05] <snap-l> I hear you. I kinda lost faith during thatperiod
[00:06] <snap-l> Test for Echo was a real crisis of faith
[00:06] <jcastro> well, it just sounds like Yes is one long Alan Parsons Project to me
[00:06] <snap-l> Dude, Yes Album. Pronto
[00:06] <jcastro> but hey, I've never gotten into prog so I'm just dipping my toes
[00:07] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yes_Album
[00:07] <snap-l> jcastro: Oh man... OK
[00:07] <snap-l> MAybe that's extra strength then if you're not used to it
[00:07] <jcastro> snap-l: if I tell you something do you promise not to make fun of me?
[00:07] <jcastro> though I am sure jono will
[00:08] <snap-l> just between you and me
[00:08] <snap-l> promise
[00:08] <jcastro> I got this for Jill
[00:08] <jcastro> http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Beyonce-The-Beyonce-Experience-Live-Blu-ray/668/
[00:08] <jcastro> and it's basically awesome
[00:08] <jcastro> I've watched it _5_ times
[00:09] <snap-l> This does not surprise me
[00:09] <snap-l> You like concerts
[00:09] <snap-l> doesn't matter what the material is
[00:09] <jcastro> I got Adele's too, from Royal Albert Hall, but radio killed those songs for me so I can't enjoy it as much
[00:10] <jcastro> snap-l: did you get the Bonn Scott BR like I told you?
[00:10] <snap-l> i have not
[00:10] <jcastro> man dude
[00:10] <snap-l> got Opeth and Yes instead
[00:11] <snap-l> like a boss
[00:11] <jcastro> It was filmed like 2 months before he died
[00:11] <jcastro> and other than not being letterbox it looks like it was made yesterday
[00:12] <snap-l> I got DOuble Live Dynamo by Exodus.
[00:45] <jono> balloons, any word on if LPlib lets us get the info we need?
[01:16] <jono> mhall119, you there?
[01:17] <mhall119> jono: yeah
[01:17] <mhall119> trying to get a unity build environment setup
[01:17] <jono> mhall119, did you set up a wiki page to gether things we want folks to do on the UGJ
[01:17] <jono> what are you working on?
[01:18] <mhall119> jono: yeah, it's at the bottom of the global jam page
[01:18] <mhall119> jono: I wanted to see what it would take to make Unity re-read it's lenses without having to be restarted
[01:19] <jono> mhall119, fancy :-)
[01:19] <mhall119> heh, we'll see
[01:19] <mhall119> me and C++ get along like lime and coconut
[01:30] <jcastro> I'll have your juju section for the page tomorrow
[01:30] <jcastro> since it's really just the charm contest
[01:31] <jcastro> and the askubuntu guys have a set of tasks
[01:31] <jcastro> all I have left to do is transcribe snap-l's Michigan UGJ interview and then do Mexico
[01:39] <snap-l> Man, you're going to be sore after doing MExico
[01:39] <snap-l> ba-dum-TISH
[01:49] <jono> thanks jcastro
[01:54] <jcastro> snap-l: in hindsight I should have mailed you questions
[01:54] <jcastro> and made you write
[01:54] <jcastro> instead of me
[01:54] <jcastro> but I love you bro,
[01:57] <mhall119> jono: thanks!
[01:58] <snap-l> jcastro: Heh. :) I'm a better writer than speaker. :)
[01:59] <snap-l> jcastro: But thank you. :)
[02:00]  * mhall119 is now able to run Unity from trunk!
[02:00]  * mhall119 feels kind of awesome right now
[02:03]  * jono plays with launchpadlib
[02:04] <jono> mhall119, nice!
[02:05] <mhall119> C++ is still scary though
[02:05] <mhall119> but I'm going to play around with it anyway
[06:42] <AlanBell> jcastro I am now
[06:47] <nigelb> Morning AlanBell
[06:55] <balloons> when does early become late anyway? :-)
[06:55] <balloons> or I should say late becomes early
[06:59] <nigelb> balloons: I suppose its when I say good night :P
[08:13] <dholbach> good morning
[08:26] <dpm> good morning all
[08:49] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:14] <duanedesign> o/
[09:50] <dholbach> ok, it looks like the construction works next door are continuing today - so I'll move somewhere else for work
[09:50] <dholbach> see you later :)
[11:09] <czajkowski> am so tired today, need weekend to come so i can just sleep
[11:53] <duanedesign> o/
[12:16] <jussi> oh for petes sake.
[12:16] <jussi> open office you !"#¤%& (yes, it crashed)
[13:30] <jcastro> popey: I guess ICS is rolling out to TF101's
[13:30] <jcastro> I should have it soon!
[13:34] <popey> heh
[13:35]  * popey switches one on to find out
[14:13] <cprofitt> jcastro: that is what was reported
[14:13] <cprofitt> Taiwan first though
[14:13] <jcastro> yeah I have nothing yet.
[14:13] <cprofitt> the TF201 had it already
[14:13] <cprofitt> but the TF201 had wireless and GPS issues
[14:13] <jcastro> I will try to avoid refreshing it every 5 minutes, heh
[14:13] <cprofitt> I was so damned disappointed
[14:14] <jcastro> yeah, I need the GPS
[14:14] <jcastro> it's so great in the car when driving
[14:14] <jcastro> I just hold it for my wife and she drives along
[14:14] <cprofitt> man... looking like another re-fi might be in order too.
[14:14] <cprofitt> rates hit 4.1 today
[14:42] <daker> jcastro, is this official https://plus.google.com/109091305842368633411/ ?
[14:43] <jcastro> no clue
[14:43] <jcastro> oh it is
[14:43] <jcastro> I see the manage button
[14:43] <jcastro> yes
[14:43] <daker> ok
[15:05] <cprofitt> jcastro: pushed your LA call out a bit more on G+
[15:05] <jcastro> LA?
[15:05] <cprofitt> I am really surprised we have no teams involved
[15:05] <cprofitt> Latin America
[15:05] <jcastro> oh, latin america
[15:05] <jcastro> yeah I am about to send them all another mail
[15:05] <jcastro> and post my -michigan interview
[15:05] <cprofitt> cool
[15:05] <jcastro> had to get this contest launched
[15:06] <jcastro> http://cloud.ubuntu.com/2012/02/juju-charm-contest-help-bring-free-software-into-the-cloud/
[15:06] <jcastro> tell a server buddy
[15:13] <jcastro> man
[15:13] <jcastro> 99 likes on facebook already on the juju contest
[15:13] <cprofitt> nice
[15:13] <cprofitt> I wanted to do an art contest, but had no idea how to set such a thing up
[15:21] <czajkowski> cprofitt: maybe ask the design team and talk to them, thats their area
[15:47] <jcastro> hah, I guess that database error means the forums upgrade is in progress
[15:47] <snap-l> you hope. :)
[15:48] <bkerensa> jcastro: Now it might be worthwhile for me to write a charm
[15:48] <bkerensa> :D
[15:50] <jcastro> meeting now?
[15:51] <jono> ladies and gents, good morning :-)
[15:51] <dholbach> jcastro, UGJ I think
[15:51] <jono> balloons, hows the beta1 work going?
[15:52] <balloons> haha, funny you should ask
[15:52] <balloons> it's going to be a ppa.. just made that decision with didrocks and dholbach
[15:52] <dholbach> balloons, please merge from lp:~dholbach/+junk/checkbox-beta1
[15:52] <balloons> they brought up some legit concerns
[15:52] <jono> balloons, ok, we can maybe shoot for on the disc for B2
[15:53] <jono> which concerns?
[15:54] <balloons> i'll forward you the email
[15:54] <balloons> however, we'll get a shout out in the release notes
[15:54] <balloons> so that will be something :-)
[15:55] <balloons> jono, yes B2 for sure
[15:55] <balloons> gotta happen :-)
[15:55] <jono> balloons, awesome
[15:55] <jono> how complete is the package for B1?
[15:56] <balloons> how complete?
[15:56] <dholbach> jono, I'm not the authority to make decisions, but to me it seemed that 1) lots of hoops to jump through to get it in (sponsorship, release team ACK, archive admin review, MIR review so you get it into main, change ubuntu-desktop to depend on it, respin CDs), 2) it would probably be good to have a more generic package which lets you test things whenever we want stuff tested, and otherwise says "nothing being tested right now."
[15:56] <dholbach> - this way the user wouldn't end up with a number of different checkbox-<milestone> packages and we wouldn't have to go through the approval process every single time - that's all that I thought when I first read about it
[15:57] <balloons> ^
[15:57] <dholbach> balloons, I added some packaging fixes in lp:~dholbach/+junk/checkbox-beta1
[15:57] <balloons> ok,
[15:57] <dholbach> if you merge them I can run you through the process of uploading it to a ppa
[15:57] <balloons> let me try and merge
[15:57] <jono> dholbach, agreed
[15:57] <jono> balloons, complete as in, how many of the tests are in there
[15:57] <balloons> ahh
[15:58] <jono> dholbach, jcastro, dpm, balloons, mhall119 UGJ in 2m
[15:58] <balloons> I did three apps last night.. nautilus, shotwell and gedit
[15:58] <jono> balloons, cool
[15:58] <balloons> then I started on the coding stuff
[15:58] <jono> so I guess it being a PPA gives you a little more breathing room too
[15:58] <balloons> sadly some of the tests where in worse shape than I thought
[15:58] <balloons> but yes, ppa means we can get more in there
[15:58] <jono> balloons, shocked face :-)
[15:59] <jono> balloons, you should reach out to ubuntu-devel to ask for devs to provide tests in the packages you care about
[15:59] <jono> nice work balloons, dholbach!
[15:59] <dholbach> balloons, 1) https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA - 2) http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/getting-set-up.html
[15:59] <balloons> k merged
[15:59] <dholbach> rock and roll
[16:00] <dholbach> balloons, let me know if anything is unclear in the docs - also some of the steps you will very likely have done already
[16:00] <balloons> ok.. let's see what happens
[16:03] <balloons> jono, btw, looks like I can't make the global jam call happening now
[16:03] <jono> balloons, np
[16:04] <jcastro> jono: I keep getting an error, let me just restart, be there in 2 ticks
[16:04] <jono> jcastro, np
[16:11] <technoviking> jcastro: What is Dave Lawson nick?
[16:11] <jcastro> technoviking: deej
[16:12] <technoviking> jcastro: thanks
[16:12] <jcastro> good luck
[16:12] <jcastro> lmk how it goes!
[16:29] <dholbach> I'll head back home and work the rest of the time from there - brb
[16:38] <technoviking> jcastro: will do, turn out I have half-admin, missing one set of permission
[16:39] <jcastro> ooh, maybe s-fox can help?
[16:39] <jcastro> ping?
[16:39] <s-fox> already spoke with technoviking jcastro
[16:39] <s-fox> ;)
[16:39] <jcastro> \o/
[16:40] <s-fox> I am not sure on the missing permission. lol, i have been trying to contact another admin...
[16:40] <s-fox> I would also add that canonical do have a super admin account setup, why not use that?
[16:40] <s-fox> Looks like it is sorted for technoviking  jcastro
[16:40] <s-fox> \o/
[16:41] <jcastro> deej should have that permission then
[17:03] <jono> mhall119, invite sent
[17:03] <balloons> dholbach, I'm back at packaging this.. will let you know how it goes
[17:04] <dholbach> balloons, it should be packaged alright already
[17:04] <dholbach> in the branch run:
[17:04] <dholbach> bzr bd -- -S -sa
[17:04] <dholbach> cd ..
[17:04] <dholbach> pbuilder-dist precise build checkbox-beta1*.dsc
[17:04] <balloons> ege
[17:04] <balloons> hehe.. gpg key
[17:04] <balloons> where did I put that thing..
[17:05] <dholbach> ~/.gnupg?
[17:05] <dholbach> at least https://launchpad.net/~nskaggs says you have one
[17:05] <dholbach> did you follow the instructions in the "getting set up" article?
[17:06] <balloons> that's what i was in the middle of doing
[17:06] <balloons> i believe that gpg key is from my laptop
[17:06] <balloons> that's the issue
[17:07] <dholbach> you can just copy the whole directory over
[17:07] <dholbach> should be fine
[17:07] <balloons> yea, I'll have to go grab it from the lappy
[17:08] <dholbach> you might have to add your canonical.com address as a key id to your gpg key
[17:08] <dholbach> hum
[17:08] <dholbach> when you said you merged my changes - did you also push them to lp:~nskaggs/+junk/checkbox-beta1 again?
[17:09] <balloons> it's pushed now :-)
[17:09] <dholbach> sweet :)
[17:09] <balloons> it was only local
[17:11] <dholbach> hum, still can't see the changes
[17:12] <balloons> i'll push again
[17:12] <balloons> try it again
[17:12] <dholbach> yeehaw
[17:14] <balloons> hmm
[17:18] <balloons> this is fun.. once this is set, i'll try and dholbach
[17:19] <dholbach> balloons, I think I just found a few other small mistakes - but you can just go ahead for now
[17:19] <balloons> it's gonna take me a bit to get the key
[17:19] <balloons> so.. have at it
[17:19] <balloons> :-)
[17:20] <balloons> i think it's EOD for you soon?
[17:22] <dholbach> yeah, I need to sort a few other things out as well
[17:33] <technoviking> jcastro: all done other than fixing icons
[17:33] <jcastro> wait what?
[17:33] <jcastro> define done?
[17:33] <jcastro> the upgrade is done?
[17:34] <s-fox> We've had a partial upgrade to address a security hole
[17:35] <pleia2> glad to hear at least that was taken care of :)
[17:35] <jcastro> oh ok, so the 3.x upgrade then
[17:35] <jcastro> ok
[17:35] <s-fox> I don't like having other people reading my emails +1 pleia2
[17:35]  * pleia2 nods
[17:35] <technoviking> fix a security hole, now the vB4 can procde soon
[17:35] <technoviking> hope hope hope
[17:35] <jcastro> afaik they said the 4.x upgrade was being done in parallel
[17:37] <technoviking> s-fox: any change, deej said the icon have been replaced
[17:37] <s-fox> I'll clear my cache
[17:38] <technoviking> jcastro: can't answer that
[17:38] <dholbach> balloons, I pushed some more changes - can you please merge them again?
[17:38] <jcastro> well that's what they said last time
[17:38] <dholbach> balloons, also for now I'll upload the package I have now to my PPA so you can have a look at it and see if it's alright - generally it'd be better though if you could upload it to your own ppa, so you don't need to block on me
[17:38] <s-fox> technoviking,  No change :(
[17:39] <dholbach> balloons, just let me know how I can help and I'll have a look at it tomorrow again
[17:39] <technoviking> s-fox: squid issues
[17:39] <technoviking> may take a few minutes
[17:39] <s-fox> Okay, I will check again in a few
[17:40] <s-fox> technoviking,  It may be covered by the changes with the icons, but the fav icon seems to have been overwritten
[17:42] <dholbach> balloons, my ppa: https://launchpad.net/~dholbach/+archive/ppa/+packages - the builds: https://launchpad.net/~dholbach/+archive/ppa/+build/3235161 (amd64), https://launchpad.net/~dholbach/+archive/ppa/+build/3235162 (i386)
[17:42] <technoviking> my fav looks right
[17:42] <balloons> dholbach, thanks, you've been helpful
[17:43] <balloons> i've got more work to do as well.. so if you've gotten it to build, I can check that off. thanks!
[17:43] <dholbach> balloons, well - it'd be good to test and see if it works ;-)
[17:43] <s-fox> technoviking,  I have the vBulletin fav icon after i cleared my cache.
[17:43] <balloons> yes, exactly
[17:43] <dholbach> balloons, drop me an email with what you're missing and I'll get to it tomorrow morning
[17:43] <balloons> before I go crazy
[17:45] <balloons> dholbach, essentially I've got more tests to add
[17:45] <balloons> and a couple possible code changes to make :-)
[17:45] <balloons> i'll keep you informed
[17:45] <balloons> thanks!
[17:45] <dholbach> rock on
[17:45] <technoviking> I will ping them in an hour if the icon don't straigten out from the squid cache
[17:47] <balloons> awesome.. it built finally
[17:47] <balloons> :-)
[17:47] <technoviking> fav icon should be fixed, looking at other icons
[17:49] <s-fox> Confirmed, fav icon is back technoviking
[17:49] <dholbach> balloons, you will need to merge from lp:~dholbach/+junk/checkbox-beta1 again to make it work
[17:49] <dholbach> the vala code never compiled
[17:49] <balloons> kk, will do
[17:50] <technoviking> sweet
[17:50] <dholbach> and now to some FixIt Friday propaganda
[18:01] <balloons> dholbach,  I don't see how to actually make a ppa on those two pages.. I'm assuming I can use the lp link to doso https://launchpad.net/~nskaggs/+activate-ppa
[18:02] <dholbach> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA#Activating_a_PPA
[18:02] <dholbach> so, yeah :)
[18:02] <balloons> lol yea
[18:02] <balloons> i read that
[18:02] <balloons> and it tells me nothing
[18:02] <balloons> imho
[18:03] <s-fox> balloons,  I just sent you an email regading the data scrape
[18:03] <balloons> it makes sense now.. but it's a bit confusing.. something more straightforward like.. hit the activate ppa link on your profile page for personal ppa, or on your teams page for team ppa.. and something about filling out the form, or things you need to do it, etc
[18:03] <balloons> feels really lacking
[18:04] <balloons> i mean, what pre-requsities do I have to have to activate a ppa?
[18:05] <balloons> s-fox, kk.. I will have a look
[18:05] <s-fox> Thanks balloons
[18:16] <mhall119> jcastro: ping
[18:21] <jcastro> yo
[18:26] <dholbach> RTs etc. of FixIt Friday news would be appreciated. :-)
[18:26] <mhall119> jcastro: hey, I'm going to be blogging about how to submit these quicklist changes upstream, do you have any good resources on that process I can reference?
[18:26] <jcastro> one sec
[18:26] <jcastro> I think I might
[18:27] <dholbach> alright my friends - time to call it a day
[18:27] <dholbach> see you all tomorrow
[18:27] <dholbach> hugs
[18:27] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Quicklists
[18:27] <jcastro> though that's probably worthless for you now
[18:27] <jcastro> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=642567
[18:27] <ubot2`> Gnome bug 642567 in screenshot "Add Unity quicklist support" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed]
[18:28] <jcastro> here's an example
[18:28] <jcastro> that's all I got
[18:28] <mhall119> jcastro: how about any generic "This is how you should send your changes upstream"
[18:28] <jcastro> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-power-users/2011-May/000025.html
[18:28] <jcastro> not really
[18:28] <jcastro> the few we had didrocks did
[18:30] <mhall119> heh, didrocks told me to ask you
[18:30] <jcastro> hah
[18:30] <mhall119> ok, I think I've got enough for a post anyeay
[18:30] <jcastro> yeah, maybe bilal might know?
[18:30] <jcastro> he did a few
[18:48] <technoviking> jcastro: they are preparing for the vB4 upgrade soon on new hardware
[18:54] <jcastro> ah, nice!
[19:33] <M0hi> bodhizazen, Brainstorm team is to collect ideas about developing or changing applications right?
[19:48] <jcastro> snap-l: email in your decafbad address
[19:48] <jcastro> with the draft post.
[19:48] <jcastro> All I need to do is add the pics
[20:15] <snap-l> jcastro: pm for cleaned up transcript.
[20:48] <jcastro> snap-l: http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/02/23/how-ubuntu-michigan-runs-jams/
[20:53] <snap-l> Danke. :)
[21:05] <jcastro> <-- picking up laptop from repair shop, bbi 15 minutes
[21:05] <akgraner> this whole daily updating thing is not going well for me - so today I updated and now my computer it couldn't open a lock file and then unable to lock the admin dir and asks me if I am root... I am so about to give up testing anything this cycle...arrrrrr....
[21:08] <balloons> akgraner,
[21:09]  * balloons as no words
[21:09] <akgraner> I am about to throw this computer at this other graner I know
[21:10] <akgraner> I have to laugh - I don't think this happens to anyone but me
[21:11] <snap-l> akgraner: There's usually a cycle where your machine just goes to pot
[21:11] <snap-l> At which point you simply format, reload, and try try again
[21:11] <akgraner> yep - but luckily I learned - I have a main machine and test machine now :-) and it's the test machine that is rebelling
[21:12] <snap-l> At least it's not the main machine. :)
[21:12] <akgraner> snap-l, I just re-installed it yesterday - wiped the thing and started over
[21:13] <akgraner> :-)
[21:16] <snap-l> akgraner: Well, I got nothin'
[21:16] <snap-l> ;)
[21:16] <snap-l> I hope it's padded, for the other graner's sake.
[21:17] <akgraner> :-)
[21:18] <balloons> blame the hardware.. the other graner.. or both :-)
[21:20] <snap-l> jcastro: I don't hear the Rush in Ides of March
[21:20] <snap-l> Other than the drum sounds are similar to Bytor And the Snow Dog
[21:21] <snap-l> but just for a second. :)
[21:24] <jono> balloons, what's the latest?
[21:25] <balloons> I'm hungry
[21:25] <jono> lol
[21:25] <jono> I'm Jono, nice to meet you
[21:25] <balloons> lol..
[21:25] <jono> badum-tish!
[21:25] <balloons> nice..
[21:25] <balloons> ok, you win
[21:25] <jono> it's all about the comedy
[21:25] <jono> how are we doing, test-wise?
[21:26] <balloons> umm, so the plan is to have this ready for Monday if not sooner
[21:26] <jono> cool
[21:26] <jono> balloons, let's have a quick G+ in a bit
[21:26] <balloons> other pieces might fall into place on Friday
[21:26] <balloons> sure sure
[21:26] <jono> maybe in 20?
[21:26] <balloons> umm..
[21:26] <jono> I might have a call then, but can figure out a time
[21:26] <balloons> I am free now
[21:27] <jono> balloons, lets do now
[21:27] <balloons> in 20 I may not be.. in 40 I definitely won't be :-)
[21:28] <jono> balloons, invite sent
[21:28] <akgraner> woo hoo - pete fixed it - he said it was an archive skew  - now it's updating nicely :-)
[21:29] <akgraner> now I can finally test something /me is happy :-)
[21:29] <balloons> let's try that again jono
[21:30] <jono> balloons, invited again
[22:06] <mhall119> :q/w 34
[23:04] <jo-erlend> the Ubuntu Classic project has been registered. Does everything look good?  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-classic
[23:04] <jcastro> hey mhall119
[23:05] <mhall119> hey jcastro
[23:05] <jcastro> no UGJ florida page yet?
[23:05] <jcastro> also, what time are you thinking about having it? Jill and I were thinking of just making a weekend out of it, going to Epcot, etc.
[23:06] <mhall119> jcastro: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-florida/1445/detail/
[23:06] <mhall119> just no venue yet, so it shows under "Events without a Venue"
[23:06] <jono> jcastro, can you go in and add the +1s for Ubuntu Members and those who have not been to UDS before to the sponsor applicants list
[23:07] <jcastro> I need to be given rights for that
[23:07] <mhall119> jono: should I switch uds-q over to "review" state now?
[23:07] <jcastro> mhall119: ^^
[23:07] <jono> mhall119, please
[23:07] <jono> thanks jcastro
[23:08] <jcastro> mhall119: can you give me review rights?
[23:08] <mhall119> jcastro: check now
[23:09] <popey> jo-erlend: define "good"?
[23:09] <jcastro> mhall119: nope
[23:10] <jcastro> isn't that Mate thing doing the gnome2 maintenance thing?
[23:10] <jo-erlend> popey, that's never a compliment, is it? Primarily, I want everyone who's even considering MATE to join this instead. We need to push things forward.
[23:11] <mhall119> jcastro: now?
[23:11] <popey> who is "we" and what problem are "we" trying to solve?
[23:11] <jcastro> I don't see it.
[23:11] <jcastro> mhall119: can you give me the direct URL to the review section?
[23:11] <jcastro> maybe it's just missing from my menu thing
[23:12] <jo-erlend> popey, lots of people love Gnome Panel. Work is being done, and MATE is pretending to. But we don't want to create an artificial environment for old technologies to live in like some sort of aquarium.
[23:13] <jono> hmmm Ctrl-Alt arrow keys doesnt work any more
[23:13] <popey> i see no problem with other people creating desktop environments they like
[23:14] <popey> but i dont think "we" should dilute what we're doing
[23:14] <popey> which is unity
[23:14] <jono> ahhh they changed the binding
[23:14] <jo-erlend> popey, right. But new shells should not automatically mean the end of the traditional ones either.
[23:14] <popey> jo-erlend: gnome project decided that one for us ☺
[23:15] <jo-erlend> popey, I don't care about the Gnome Project. Most development seems to come from the Ubuntu community now anyway.
[23:15] <jo-erlend> and it's maturing in a fast pace.
[23:16] <popey> i still dont see whats in it for us
[23:16] <popey> to develop yet another desktop, especially yet another dead desktop system which has been shown not to work
[23:17] <jo-erlend> it hasn't been shown not to work. Quite the contrary. It's been working very well for fifteen years.
[23:17] <popey> it clearly hasn't worked
[23:17] <popey> we've been making ubuntu for 7 years
[23:17] <popey> what's the market penetration again?
[23:17] <jo-erlend> because it hasn't attracted the masses?
[23:17] <popey> exactly
[23:18] <jo-erlend> right. I don't care about masses. I think, if only a few hundred thousand people enjoys a piece of software, it's worth keeping. If the alternative is running towards mirages like MATE, staying in touch with reality becomes even more important.
[23:19] <jono> I am suspicious about how few Ubuntu Accomplishments bugs have come in
[23:19] <popey> canonical, ubuntu and I personally care about the masses
[23:19] <jono> it simply can't be running that well :-)
[23:19] <popey> anyway, as I said
[23:19] <popey> 23:13:59 < popey> i see no problem with other people creating desktop environments they like
[23:22] <jo-erlend> popey, right. Obviously. But now we have the MATE illusion that makes people want to run off in order to halt all development because of the evil Gnome 3. My intent is to kill that illusion. I understand the misconceptions and why they exist. It's because people think Gnome Panel and Gnome 2 is the same. Ubuntu does not support Gnome 2. Hence, Ubuntu is killing the classic Gnome desktop. This is a logical conclusion if yo
[23:22] <jo-erlend> u don't really understand the technology.
[23:22] <popey> I don't care ☺
[23:22] <popey> you're either on board with ubuntu or you're using CDE on Solaris ☺
[23:23] <popey> arguably s/ubuntu/unity/
[23:24] <jo-erlend> I want a Gnome Panel applet with a GTK dash. I would also want this to be applicable for LXDE. Because if we can make out technology omnipresent, then other distros will follow, making the innovations themselves more important. I don't like the concept of Ubuntu as an island of cannibals. Might like the beach though.
[23:25] <jo-erlend> s/out/our/
[23:26] <popey> I got an old laptop out of a drawer today. It was running Ubuntu 10.10 - maverick.
[23:26] <popey> Looked at the two panel setup and my first reaction was "oo, retro"
[23:26] <jo-erlend> What's wrong with that?
[23:27] <popey> I love retro in its place. Museums and emulators.
[23:27] <jo-erlend> yes, but do you understand the wish to keep Gnome Panel alive?
[23:27] <popey> I understand it in the way i understand why people like RiscOS and Sinclair Spectrums
[23:28] <jo-erlend> as I said before, I personally prefer Unity. What I don't like, is the notion that Unity and Gnome Shell is killing freedom. This is a popular view.
[23:28] <popey> So the solution is to make _yet_ another desktop?
[23:29] <jo-erlend> popey, no. Just to keep it alive, using new technologies instead of fooling people into thinking you have to choose between the classic desktop and new technology, like MATE is doing.
[23:30] <popey> you make it sound like an either/or situation. There aren't just two choices. there's hundreds.
[23:30] <jo-erlend> can you explain?
[23:32] <jo-erlend> <popey> you make it sound like an either/or situation. There aren't just two choices. there's hundreds. <-- last message I saw. Did you receive anything after that?
[23:35] <jo-erlend> consider this; Linus Torvalds tends to be noticed. He has claimed that if you want a traditional desktop, then you have to switch to Xfce. But the difference between Unity and  Gnome Panel is minimal. You cannot install Xfce without breaking ubuntu-desktop. So. Should we break the default by supporting Xfce or should be add something to Ubuntu by keeping Gnome Panel alive? Further. If lots of users are convinced that we a
[23:35] <jo-erlend> re killing off opportunities and that Mint is the only ones who can save them; should we ignore that misconception or should we address it properly?
[23:36] <popey> Nobody cares what Linus uses.
[23:36] <popey> My mum has no idea who Linus is.
[23:36] <popey> I'm not making a desktop that Linus likes, I'm making one my mum likes.
[23:37] <jo-erlend> alright. I didn't ask for permission. I'm going to promote it anyway. I would just like to get some feedback on the project setup before it attracts the enormous amounts of attention it is going to.
[23:37] <mhall119> that's not true, way too many people care what Linus uses
[23:38] <popey> nobody in the 95% of people who are the potential target audience do.
[23:38] <mhall119> probably most of them want the opposite of Linus in most cases
[23:38] <jo-erlend> popey, listen. If you're a footballer, then focusing on one ball is ok. But I play billiards. Focusing on one ball is bad for me.
[23:39] <popey> A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
[23:40] <popey> I'm not suggesting you need permission to do what you're doing, but just that I suspect you might get support from a very vocal set of poeple who actually aren't really contributing to Ubuntu at all.
[23:40] <popey> "That's it, I'm leaving for Mint"
[23:41] <jo-erlend> you can combine Unity with LxPanel, Xfce4-panel or Gnome Panel. However, people are getting the idea that if you want a taskbar, you cannot use Ubuntu. That annoys me enormously. And the idea that halting all development on the Gnome platform is a good idea because Ubuntu now has gone up against Gnome, annoys me even more. But people do believe this.
[23:44] <pleia2> did anyone ever figure out who we need to email to get our LWN subscriptions back?
[23:44] <jo-erlend> that is one aspect, but there are others. For instance, two Norwegian banks recently merged. They'd really been the same thing for many years, but they'd operated under different brands. When they decided to merge the net-bank solution, hundreds of thousands of people suddenly didn't know what to do. Because they had been taught how to use the tool – not to understand it.
[23:44] <jo-erlend> 10.04 - 12.04 is a single upgrade. It isn't obvious that everyone is paying attention.
[23:44] <popey> pleia2: it went away?
[23:44] <pleia2> popey: yeah, I still get emails saying when it's published by when I log in it tells me to subscribe to view it
[23:45] <pleia2> akgraner, nigelb and paultag at least are having similar problems
[23:45] <pleia2> apaultag was in here the other day asking about it, he was told https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/LWN was outdated and I don't know where we go from there
[23:45] <pleia2> -a
[23:46] <popey> i can ask on the internal list if you like?
[23:46] <akgraner> popey my pw and login failed 2 weeks ago and I haven't been able to log in since
[23:46] <pleia2> that would be great :)
[23:46] <akgraner> thanks pleia2 for bringing this up
[23:47] <pleia2> I never noticed because I don't read them in a timely manner ;) but we need to stop saying it's a benefit of membership if people can't actually get it anymore
[23:48] <popey> pleia2: mail sent
[23:48] <pleia2> popey: thank you!
[23:48] <popey> np
[23:50] <jono> wow, window management in Unity currently seems b0rked
[23:50] <popey> s/unity/compiz/
[23:53] <jcastro> aw man
[23:53] <jcastro> did I miss the mate discussion?
[23:53] <jcastro> stupid work ....
[23:53] <jcastro> hey popey
[23:53] <popey> hah
[23:53] <jcastro> tell me the state of ubuntu-tv, is there a PPA or anything?
[23:53] <jcastro> I am feeling frisky tonitew
[23:53] <popey> no
[23:54] <balloons> frisky eh?
[23:54] <technoviking> say no more wink wink nudge nudge
[23:54] <balloons> jono, should I not upgrade and get the window mgmt goodness? :-)
[23:55] <jono> balloons, I would wait :-)
[23:55] <popey> you want the LIM ppa for fun
[23:55] <jcastro> no thanks
[23:55] <technoviking> jcastro:  you use nvidia with dual monitors in precise?
[23:55] <jcastro> I try to stay PPA free
[23:55] <jcastro> technoviking: yep
[23:55] <technoviking> jcastro: no problem setting it up?
[23:56] <technoviking> when I turn on twinview  xorg will not load
[23:56] <technoviking> i blame popey
[23:56] <jcastro> no issues for me
[23:57] <jcastro> but if you're lucky you can catch RAOF on #ubuntu-x
[23:57] <akgraner> jono I hate you're having issues, but I am so glad it's not just me :-)
[23:57] <jcastro> he's on .au time and likely around now
[23:57] <balloons> technoviking, I also have duals.. and no issues
[23:57] <technoviking> hmmm
[23:57] <balloons> and jono thanks.. I canceled the 300 mb of updates
[23:57] <jcastro> the new lightdm dual monitor thing is /bad ass/
[23:57] <balloons> :-)
[23:57] <balloons> jcastro, yes I noticed when compiz crashed today
[23:57] <balloons> haha
[23:57] <balloons> looks really nice.. I felt better about the crash.. since I got to use it
[23:58] <jono> jcastro, I still dont see that
[23:58] <technoviking> jcastro: will look for him tomorrow
[23:58] <jcastro> jono: you should have it in the latest lightdm
[23:59] <jcastro> it's cute, if you move your mouse to the other monitor it flips it so the input box for the user password is always where the mouse is
[23:59] <cjohnston> howdy
[23:59] <jcastro> it's basically kick ass
[23:59] <jcastro> ok dinner, bbi an hour, popey let me know when you have that ubuntu-tv PPA finished.