2010/05/25/#edubuntu.txt

=== joerg is now known as Guest92691
[07:35] <jussi> highvoltage: ping
[14:41] <EsLo> Hi, seems to be something overriding my .profile when using LTSP in Lucid.. I've created 2 users norsk and nynorsk and set export LANG="nb_NO.UTF-8" for norsk and export LANG="nn_NO.UTF-8"  for the nynorsk user.
[14:42] <EsLo> When logging in as norsk via ltsp the locale confirms nb_NO
[14:42] <EsLo> But nynorsk defaults to en_US in ltsp
[14:43] <EsLo> When I log in directly on LTSP server, the locale is nn_NO
[14:44] <EsLo> Where do the locale setting get overridden?
[15:22] <joerg> hi
[15:23] <mhall119> anyone hwere know anything about the initrd.lz file in the LiveCD?
[15:28] <joerg> sbalneav, hey.....
[15:49] <joerg> vmlintu, hi...have you got a clean ubuntu server somewhere?
[15:51] <vmlintu> joerg: hi.. I can get a new virtual machine running..
[15:52] <joerg> vmlintu, I am currently trying to write a quick installation guide for the early moves...
[15:52] <joerg> that's why I ask
[15:54] <vmlintu> need help testing the guide?
[16:01] <joerg> vmlintu, yes, that would be great...
[16:01] <joerg> vmlintu, http://myserv-project.org/install
[16:02] <joerg> vmlintu, that should take care of everything....except the configuration
[16:03] <joerg> but if that just works on a fresh ubuntu box without any errors, they'd only have to edit settings.py and will be done...
[16:04] <vmlintu> ok, I'll try that a bit later, I'm just finishing off other things
[16:05] <highvoltage> hey there vmlintu
[16:06] <vmlintu> highvoltage: hi
[16:08] <highvoltage> vmlintu: I was wondering, did you manage to bring any of the ldap stuff up with the server team during the UDS?
[16:09] <vmlintu> highvoltage: no.. there was some discussion about it on ubuntu-server mailing list, but it died off quickly and I couldn't find anything about it later..
[16:09] <highvoltage> vmlintu: ok
[16:10] <vmlintu> highvoltage: the sources for the user management side are now on github: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-users
[16:11] <highvoltage> oh cool
[16:12] <vmlintu> you can manage multiple ldap databases + kerberos realms with a single server installation
[16:12] <vmlintu> It uses subdomains to know which one you want to connect to
[16:13] <highvoltage> it would be great if that could make it into ubuntu even though it's not used for anything by default yet
[16:14] <vmlintu> packaging it would mean first packaging <10 gems that are not in ubuntu or need updates
[16:15] <vmlintu> for the ultimate experience you can try setting up openldap+mit kerberos with 30 ldap databases and kerberos realms with a single command: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-tools
[16:15] <joerg> vmlintu, isn't there something like virtualenv in python?
[16:15] <vmlintu> what is virtualenv?
[16:15] <joerg> a way to install packages in a virtual environment
[16:15] <joerg> e.g. myserv has heaps of dependencies as well...
[16:16] <joerg> but I will simply include them in the package
[16:16] <joerg> the whole thing will be an isolated python environment....
[16:16] <vmlintu> if I understand debian policy correctly, libraries should not be included..
[16:16] <joerg> so I wonder why you can't simply put all your ruby dependencies in your package
[16:17] <joerg> hmm, I don't know what kind of libraries you use....
[16:17] <vmlintu> you can put the dependencies easily in the package, but I doubt it would make it in the repos..
[16:17] <joerg> ...but for my project there is a lot of reusable code snippsets
[16:17] <joerg> sometimes only available via git or so
[16:18] <vmlintu> sounds the same as the gems in ruby..
[16:18] <joerg> well, I have nobody to package ten or so small python snippets...
[16:19] <joerg> django_friends, django_oembed, django_openid, django_notification and so on
[16:20] <joerg> and then you sometimes need a certain revision/version....
[16:20] <joerg> I simply cannot take care of that.
[16:20] <joerg> there will be a batteries included version which simply depends on python and the needed C lib and that's it...
[16:20] <joerg> and those python libs that are available in ubuntu as packages....
[16:21] <joerg> e.g. django
[16:21] <joerg> but not these 200 lines code snippets
[16:21] <joerg> apart from that: moodle for example use the yale CAS php libs
[16:22] <joerg> so if it is really that strict....
[16:22] <joerg> somebody should repackage moodle
[16:22] <joerg> remove CAS.php and put that in a php5-cas package :)
[16:23] <highvoltage> vmlintu: yep, you're right
[16:24] <vmlintu> we'll probably have time for packaging sometime during the summer when schools are out
[16:52] <joerg> vmlintu, do you think it is too early to post on the mailing list and provide people with access to the demo server?
[16:53] <joerg> I am not that experienced in building communities around projects
[16:54] <joerg> but I really need an active community and contributors to run and maintain it in the long run
[16:58] <vmlintu> joerg: I'm probably not the right person to give advice on that
[16:59] <joerg> but you have seen it
[17:05] <vmlintu> I haven't gone through the code yet, but better documentation would probably help getting people interested.. I have now hard time understanding what could be done with the project and how could I benefit from it
[17:08] <joerg> read the specs :P
[17:08] <joerg> what kind of docs do you expect?
[17:08] <joerg> how you can add a comment on a profile? how you can upload and share files?
[17:08] <joerg> how you can lock and unlock PCs?
[17:09] <joerg> what a RSS feed is?
[17:10] <joerg> it is quite self explanatory
[17:12] <vmlintu> hard to say.. now the specs tell a vision, but the current status is something else
[17:13] <joerg> vmlintu, not really
[17:14] <vmlintu> but I don't know django, so I don't understand all the things in there..
[17:14] <joerg> none of the teachers here ever heard about django
[17:14] <nubae> django is just a python framework
[17:15] <nubae> thiink of it as being python
[17:15] <joerg> you don't even need to know what python is
[17:15] <nubae> its a webalized framework
[17:16] <vmlintu> are you focusing teachers with www.myserv-project.org?
[17:17] <joerg> you just need to know: there is a new portal server for schools through which you can publish news, message each other, share files and folders with friends/classes/groups, pay for stuff like printing, as a teacher book a room, allow or deny internet access on certain machines, black and white list internet sites in the proxy....
[17:18] <joerg> vmlintu, who else should I focus?
[17:18] <joerg> bus drivers? :o)
[17:18] <joerg> a portal server for schools usually has teachers and students in focus, yes :P
[17:18] <joerg> and those who are interested in technical stuff can read the technical specs.
[17:18] <nubae> talking about schooltool?
[17:19] <joerg> the teachers probably gonna simply have a look at the demo.
[17:19] <joerg> because they are not really interested what technologies/languages are used....
[17:19] <joerg> they just want to get work done...
[17:19] <joerg> nubae, no.
[17:19] <joerg> myserv
[17:19] <joerg> my upcoming project :)
[17:19] <nubae> aha, never heard of it
[17:19] <nubae> shall take a look
[17:20] <joerg> it won't hurt :)
[17:20] <nubae> hehe, i hope not
[17:20] <nubae> or i'll come find u
[17:20] <nubae> ;-)
[17:21] <vmlintu> if I wanted to contribute to it, what could/should I do?
[17:21] <joerg> nubae, the web site is very technical as vmlintu correctly noticed :P but as teachers don't want to read anything either I am just showing them the demo
[17:22] <joerg> vmlintu, report bugs ;) test it.... criticize it...
[17:22] <joerg> implement a feature....
[17:22] <joerg> finding out how it cooperates with your puavo-users stuff
[17:23] <nubae> welll I?m a dev so good thing for me I guess
[17:23] <vmlintu> I don't know django, but it says I can write modules in any language - how do I write a module using brainfuck?
[17:23] <joerg> vmlintu, probably brainfuck + cgi? :P
[17:23] <joerg> apart from that you should really have a look at django. you will love it :P
[17:23] <vmlintu> how do I get the module working with myserv?
[17:24] <vmlintu> I had a look at it and chose ruby on rails
[17:24] <joerg> vmlintu, follow the opensocial specs at opensocial.org :)
[17:25] <joerg> that would be one way, but the gadgets/opensocial is not yet completely implemented....
[17:25] <joerg> your module could then be added as a small gadget on the user's welcome page or a group administrator could for example add it as a tab in the group profile.....
[17:26] <nubae> joerg....I've loooked into many many school apps
[17:26] <vmlintu> you have all the answers, but maybe you could make a tutorial-like example how to get started developing on it?
[17:26] <nubae> can u tell me why this is say better than schooltool/moodle/mahara
[17:27] <nubae> or is this somethign that can work alongside those apps
[17:27] <nubae> (would be better for me)
[17:27] <joerg> nobody wants to replace moodle
[17:27] <joerg> if you want moodle, use it. myserv will be happy to integrate it into it's navigation and provide a single sign on system
[17:27] <nubae> well, that would be like an impossile/stupid  feat
[17:28] <joerg> so you'd only have to log in to myserv and could use your moodle
[17:28] <joerg> without authenticating again.
[17:28] <nubae> ok good
[17:28] <joerg> and if you want to use roundcube, install it.
[17:28] <joerg> I am not trying to replace existing good things.
[17:28] <joerg> I am just trying to build a portal around them.
[17:30] <vmlintu> if it integrates moodle, how do I do it?
[17:30] <nubae> so is it more like CLaSS student system?
[17:30] <joerg> I don't know what CLaSS is
[17:30] <joerg> nubae, did you get my private msg? then log in and see how it looks like....
[17:31] <joerg> vmlintu, you install moodle, configure it to authenticate against ldap + cas and that's it.
[17:31] <nubae> well its what some schools have been using (particularly british ones) for student/classrooom management
[17:31] <nubae> yes I did
[17:31] <nubae> I'm lookking
[17:31] <nubae> but difficult to get an overview so quickly
[17:31] <joerg> vmlintu, you could add a link in the menu as well, and maybe load moodle in an iframe....or a new window.
[17:32] <vmlintu> joerg: how do I know what to do if I stumble on the page?
[17:32] <joerg> nubae, well, imagine myserv like an internal "facebook" for a school
[17:32] <nubae> thats why I'm wondering what its MOST like? class= http://laex.org/class/
[17:32] <nubae> mahara
[17:33] <nubae> do u know it?
[17:33] <nubae> its touted as being the social networking tool to fit in with moodle
[17:34] <joerg> I am just looking at it...
[17:35] <nubae> Mahara is an open source e-portfolio system with a flexible display framework. Mahara, meaning 'think' or 'thought' in Te Reo Māori, is user centred environment with a permissions framework that enables different views of an e-portfolio to be easily managed. Mahara also features a weblog, resume builder and social networking system, connecting users and creating online learner communities.
[17:35] <nubae> I'd imagine its something like that?
[17:35] <joerg> you don't have to copy the website for me
[17:35] <joerg> but thx :D
[17:35] <nubae> was just the description of what it was
[17:35] <nubae> didn't want to hassle u with having to wade through the whole thing :-)
[17:35] <joerg> well, does mahara act as a single sign on system?
[17:35] <nubae> sorry was just trying to be helpful
[17:36] <nubae> oh yes
[17:36] <joerg> what sso system?
[17:36] <nubae> and more, it shares all data with moodle
[17:37] <nubae> whichever u set it up with could be openid
[17:37] <joerg> as provider?
[17:38] <joerg> nubae, what if I am logged into mahara and want to access my webmail?
[17:39] <joerg> you have to login again, right?
[17:39] <joerg> because mahara is only openid consumer
[17:39] <joerg> and the mail client / imap server is not openid capable
[17:39] <nubae> u could... it uses rmlpc(SP?) for sharing data
[17:39] <nubae> shit... forgot the proper name
[17:40] <joerg> hehe
[17:40] <joerg> anyway.....can a teacher book a room using mahara?
[17:41] <nubae> http://wiki.mahara.org/System_Administrator's_Guide/Moodle//Mahara_Integration
[17:41] <nubae> that tells moe about moodle and single sign on and mahara system
[17:41] <nubae> that sounds more like a school tool kind of thing
[17:42] <nubae> but I couldnt honestly tell u
[17:42] <joerg> that sounds like mahara is only working with moodle
[17:42] <joerg> and not with squirrelmail
[17:42] <nubae> its more like a social networking tool (e-portfolio) than anything else
[17:42] <joerg> or roundcube, or xyz
[17:42] <joerg> or foobar integrated library system/opac
[17:42] <joerg> whatsoever
[17:42] <vmlintu> joerg: these are the things you should write on your website - why it rocks
[17:42] <nubae> it is VERY integrated wtih moodle yes
[17:43] <nubae> almost like a plugin
[17:43] <joerg> vmlintu, I will :)
[17:43] <joerg> nubae, yeah, but what I'm trying is to provide an open interface to everything.
[17:43] <joerg> just look for CAS or even openid....
[17:43] <nubae> If u dont mind, I wil do a write up about your app on my site (nubae.com)
[17:43] <vmlintu> when I hear portal I think of yahoo
[17:44] <nubae> there is a write up there about mahara and moodle
[17:44] <nubae> worth taking a look
[17:44] <joerg> I just read it
[17:44] <joerg> it tells me that it is only focused on that particular product
[17:44] <nubae> oh... the write up on nubae.com?
[17:44] <joerg> 99 of 100 schools here don't need moodle
[17:45] <joerg> haha, and we have 150 schools here which we are supporting
[17:45] <nubae> hmm... that is a VERY srtong comment
[17:45] <joerg> nobody ever asked for a moodle setup :)
[17:45] <nubae> about 40% or Britiish schools use it
[17:45] <joerg> oh
[17:46] <joerg> well teachers here dont want it
[17:46] <joerg> because it is more work
[17:46] <nubae> where would that be?
[17:46] <joerg> and has no benefit...
[17:46] <nubae> I would strongly argue against that
[17:46] <joerg> they dont want to login there, assign tasks and things like that
[17:46] <joerg> they tell them in class what the homework is
[17:46] <joerg> they won't turn on a computer for it
[17:47] <nubae> but I've been involved with moodle for 5 years and know it like the back of my hand so am somewhat biased
[17:47] <joerg> I can only tell you how it is here
[17:47] <joerg> at these 140 german schools
[17:47] <joerg> they say: "nice, but we don't need it, it won't improve the quality of the lessons"
[17:47] <nubae> funny... because the largest moodle setup I know of is in Austria
[17:47] <nubae> I lived there for many years
[17:48] <nubae> Ich wurde wirchlich nicht saggen dass man Moodle nich braucht...
[17:48] <joerg> I only tell you how it is here
[17:48] <joerg> in northern germany
[17:48] <joerg> which is 800km from the austrian border
[17:49] <joerg> austria is a technology playground
[17:49] <joerg> they have mobile broadband everywhere, they are rich and small
[17:49] <joerg> and have almost no social problems.....like we have in the suburbs of berlin etc.
[17:49] <nubae> ok... I believe u... but as u are seemingly against moodle... does that mean that your product was not built with it in mind?
[17:50] <nubae> sorry for the harsh questions, but I must ask them
[17:50] <nubae> if I am to write an unbiased report
[17:51] <ColonelPanik> nubae, Do you know of any OpenSource language programs that would do what Rosetta Stone does?
[17:52] <nubae> an open interface to everything doesnt tell me much... its like saying, I'm building a website that will do everything... I would prefer a description of what your site actually does, who its for, why it was created (what joolted it on - there is always something/someone) that forces that)
[17:53] <nubae> ColonelPanik, in what sense?
[17:54] <nubae> joerg... I do love the interface though... its simple
[17:54] <nubae> obvious
[17:54] <nubae> and teachers would feel at home right away
[17:54] <nubae> but I'm still struggling with what it actually does
[17:55] <nubae> for me... a facebook for moodle is totaly mahjara, and i think u would agree, so u need another description
[17:55] <ColonelPanik> General computer aided language acquisition.  Something to learn English, Spanish, etc.
[17:56] <nubae> but like apps for the desktop?
[17:56] <nubae> or for development work?
[17:57] <ColonelPanik> Schools, students go to the language lab, use computer to learn a language?
[17:57] <nubae> ColonelPanik, I am quite involved with Sugar....
[17:58] <nubae> I know it has some great language tools...
[17:58] <ColonelPanik> http://www.rosettastone.com
[17:58] <nubae> then there is gcompris
[17:58] <nubae> italso has some great tools inside
[17:59] <nubae> I've heard of roseta stone and probaby used t, but need to refresh my memory
[17:59] <nubae> let me take a look
[18:00] <ColonelPanik> Thanks nubae, my wife teaches ESL at the university level and Rosetta Stone is very expensive
[18:00] <nubae> yeah that I know :-) I see it on all the torrent sites because of that
[18:01] <nubae> google should have some tools for that purpose
[18:02] <nubae> chrome has the amazing ability to translate really well any website into another  language
[18:02] <nubae> to the degree it almost reads like it was written in that language
[18:02] <nubae> you should check to see if google hasnt developed someting great
[18:05] <nubae> ColonelPanik, u know rosettta stone works with wine right?
[18:05] <nubae> but she wants to be legal?
[18:06] <nubae> http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10409371-264.html - google edges to rosetta stone status
[18:06] <nubae> have a read of that
[18:07] <nubae> its what I thought might be the case
[18:10] <nubae> joerg, did I upset u with any of my comments? that was truly not my intention
[18:11] <ColonelPanik> For sure we will be legal.  And OPEN SOURCE
[18:11] <nubae> I would like to write a piece on your software, it might boost your user based considerably
[18:12] <ColonelPanik> nubae,  Do not translation need a program to learn a language.
[18:12] <nubae> ColonelPanik, http://www.linux.com/archive/feed/54605
[18:13] <nubae> that link should be a good starting point
[18:14] <nubae> yes, but I think google is working on something like that... it would need some digging.... but it mst be out there.... they've invested a hell of a lot into translation and language tools
[18:14] <ColonelPanik> nubae, Thank you.  Thats what I am talking about.
[18:14] <nubae> I'd be surprised if there wasn't a tool they created to learn languages
[18:15] <nubae> no probs...
[18:27] <joerg> hmm
[18:27] <joerg> nubae, sorry dinner :P
[18:27] <joerg> nothing against you
[18:28] <nubae> oh... bon apetit then
[18:28] <nubae> we can talk later
[18:29] <joerg> I am back :P
[18:29] <joerg> I wasn't upset
[18:29] <joerg> I was having dinner
[18:29] <joerg> anyway: I can just tell you what I already said: 140 of 140 clients did not ask us for moodle
[18:30] <joerg> and if there are people in austria who LOVE it
[18:30] <joerg> and cannot live without it
[18:30] <joerg> I don't care.
[18:30] <mhall119> woot!  RC for Qimo 2 is out: http://www.quinncoincorporated.org/qimo-2.0-desktop-rc1.iso.torrent
[18:30] <joerg> I am not paid for making solutions for austrians :)
[18:30] <highvoltage> mhall119: did you compress that initramfs?
[18:31] <mhall119> I found out I needed to extract the gzipped version made by update-initramfs, and compress it with lzma instead
[18:31] <mhall119> also, I left the gzipped version in /boot, which it seems I didn't need to do
[18:31] <joerg> nubae, the strength of myserv is or will be, that it integrates everything - as far as I know schooltool like solutions, they follow the "the teacher is god" concept
[18:32] <joerg> nubae, or the admin is god.
[18:32] <mhall119> between that, and removing some stuff from /var/cache/man/cat, I was able to get it down to 699.4 MB
[18:37] <nubae> joerg, ok, well, I will analyse all the options and do a write about it explaining that it is menat to be a school product that ties into existing school products already in use in those schools
[18:37] <nubae> dioes that sound about right?
[18:38] <nubae> has it been translated into many languages?
[18:38] <joerg> lol
[18:38] <joerg> the project was born on 26th of january :P
[18:38] <joerg> what do you expect?
[18:38] <nubae> just questions
[18:38] <joerg> what you can see is a small demo of revision 159 of the code
[18:38] <nubae> I willmention that too
[18:38] <joerg> there's nothing ready for production
[18:39] <nubae> ah ok, when will it be production ready?
[18:39] <joerg> nubae, anyway.....as far as I can see, mahara is only a social network
[18:39] <nubae> ie...when do u expect a release?
[18:39] <joerg> it only focuses on one product
[18:39] <joerg> and does not provide open interfaces and technologies
[18:39] <nubae> its extremely good at what it does
[18:39] <joerg> so it is quite different
[18:39] <joerg> that might be
[18:40] <nubae> being an e-portfolio
[18:40] <nubae> a personalised area for students and teachers using moodle
[18:40] <joerg> yes, but I am just telling you why it is absolutely not suitable for us.
[18:40] <nubae> oh I didnt think it was, I was just trying to get a feel for a similar product
[18:41] <joerg> and I am not against moodle
[18:41] <nubae> and thought from your first description it migjt be mahara
[18:41] <joerg> I just say: MY clients dont ask me for moodle
[18:41] <nubae> but I guess its not
[18:41] <joerg> so I am not focused on it
[18:41] <nubae> have u looked at class?
[18:41] <joerg> even though myserv can integrate it
[18:42] <nubae> that might be more like what myserv is like
[18:42] <joerg> nope
[18:42] <joerg> absolutely not
[18:42] <joerg> as far as I can see, you can manage marks and stuff with it.
[18:43] <nubae> ok, I'll treat it as a new product that has no known competitors
[18:43] <joerg> hmm
[18:43] <joerg> iserv is one :P
[18:43] <nubae> ok.... that helps
[18:44] <joerg> but that won't help you unless you are quite fluent in german
[18:44] <nubae> if i can show how myserv is superior, it will make a better story
[18:44] <nubae> I am
[18:44] <joerg> nubae, the thing is: e.g. mahara is a quite isolated environment
[18:44] <nubae> hab in österreich eine ganze weile gelebt
[18:44] <joerg> is there a way to integrate it into ldap?
[18:44] <joerg> for the users/groups?
[18:45] <nubae> absolutely
[18:45] <joerg> oh, ok, then I didn't really find it qhile quickly scanning the docs.
[18:45] <alkisg> joerg, is there a beta available for your myserv? What can it do already?
[18:45] <joerg> anyway....I don't know all that stuff in detail
[18:45] <nubae> thats its strength it shares absolutely all its data with moodle via rml-rpc
[18:46] <joerg> yes, but please understand that I do not concern it as a strength
[18:46] <joerg> for us
[18:46] <nubae> I am not going to compare it to mahara if u say the 2 products are differet
[18:47] <joerg> if none of your customers wants to use microsoft windows, it doesn't help you if you have the best windows integrating software ever
[18:47] <nubae> I would prefer to compare to a real competito like ierv
[18:47] <nubae> iserv
[18:47] <joerg> well...it is inspired by iserv.
[18:47] <joerg> because these guys have a monopoly here
[18:47] <nubae> ok I shalll mention that too
[18:48] <joerg> you shouldn't write anything anywhere before there is a more or less working beta :P
[18:48] <nubae> is the idea for myserv to be international?
[18:48] <nubae> ok, fine
[18:48] <joerg> the idea for myserv is at first sight: solve OUR problems
[18:48] <nubae> I'l give u my email private
[18:48] <joerg> we are just so nice that we don't sell it but share it with others as OSS
[18:48] <nubae> u write me when u think its ready for a review
[18:49] <joerg> well it already is :9
[18:49] <joerg> but you have to use the demo
[18:49] <joerg> and click through it
[18:49] <joerg> as there is no documentation available at the moment saying: it rocks, because you can do A, B and C
[18:49] <joerg> I just can tell you in brief what it does:
[18:50] <joerg> it supports several auth backends (including ldap), it acts aus SSO provider for others like webmail and moodle, it provides social networking stuff (have friends, have a profile, found a group, make a group profile).
[18:50] <joerg> it provides file sharing capabilities, that's quite important for us.
[18:51] <joerg> the users have a web based (ajax) file manager to upload and manage their home directory
[18:51] <joerg> and they can add a so called share to their own profile and share it with their friends (r, rw) or everyboddy (r, rw)
[18:51] <joerg> and you can add a share to a group profile
[18:51] <joerg> if you are the group manager/founder.
[18:52] <nubae> so its like a moodle+mahara but inspired by iserv and for your particular userbase
[18:52] <joerg> e.g. a read only folder in your home that you as a teacher share with your students - which provides a homework task as pdfs etc.
[18:52] <nubae> northern germany
[18:53] <nubae> to me that sounds exactly like moodle+mahara
[18:53] <joerg> it is more like facebook + "share a folder with this group/my friends"
[18:53] <nubae> yep... thats mahara
[18:53] <joerg> hmm, maybe should get a demo account there then :)
[18:54] <nubae> but f u dont want me to, i wont even mention moodle or mahara
[18:54] <joerg> well, and apart from that: personalized start page with RSS feeds, notifications, gadgets (opensocial)
[18:54] <nubae> yeah u shoould
[18:54] <nubae> agaijn....mahara
[18:54] <joerg> hmm, ok
[18:54] <joerg> and well, the files stuff is accessible through webdav
[18:54] <nubae> even drag and drop interface
[18:55] <nubae> to move stuff around
[18:55] <joerg> drag and drop is nothing magical :P
[18:55] <nubae> it would probablyhelp with some ideas
[18:55] <nubae> i know
[18:55] <nubae> but teachers and studnets love it
[18:55] <joerg> hmm, ok....
[18:56] <joerg> ok, and apart from that the intranet stuff
[18:56] <nubae> read through my write up and follow the instructions
[18:56] <joerg> block host foobar from internet access
[18:56] <joerg> allow internet access in room 123
[18:56] <nubae> u'llthen get an idea of what it is and how it compare
[18:57] <joerg> block www.youtube.com for 30 minutes in room 312
[18:57] <nubae> and maybe gives u some ideasm u can integrate
[18:57] <nubae> ok, thats original
[18:57] <nubae> dont think moodle ormahara do that
[18:58] <nubae> but another product does
[18:58] <nubae> :-)
[19:00] <nubae> but of course i forgot the name
[19:01] <nubae> its used extensively with ltsp
[19:01] <nubae> as the user manager
[19:01] <nubae> damn whats it called again...
[19:02] <nubae> its used to control terminals and other computers
[19:02] <joerg> but not windoze computers I guess
[19:02] <nubae> u can even share a single desktop with all the others
[19:02] <joerg> we just need to block proxy access / ip masquerading
[19:02] <nubae> yah windows too
[19:03] <joerg> hmm, the mahara thing looks good
[19:04] <joerg> first thing: how do I access my files or group files locally?
[19:04] <joerg> is there a way to mount it under linux?
[19:04] <joerg> and connect it as a drive in windows?
[19:05] <nubae> like I said, run through the doc I wrote
[19:05] <nubae> it'll give u an idea of everything possible
[19:06] <nubae> and yes, its done by a group of coders related to the moodle project
[19:06] <joerg> so it is not possible at present?
[19:06] <nubae> so its real high quality
[19:07] <nubae> I do not know
[19:07] <joerg> you wrote docs about it but you don't know? :)
[19:07] <nubae> I write a LOT of docs
[19:07] <joerg> hmm
[19:07] <nubae> I cant be expectd to remmeber every detail about every doc
[19:08] <nubae> for instance I wrote a large part of the ltsp manual
[19:08] <nubae> it doesnt mean I know everything about LTSP
[19:08] <nubae> far from it...
[19:09] <nubae> but it does integrate with webdav
[19:09] <nubae> mahara and moole
[19:09] <nubae> moodle
[19:09] <nubae> so in a way yes mounting windows is possible
[19:09] <joerg> I cannot find anything about how I can mount my "my files" as webdav.
[19:10] <nubae> welll, I'd help u look, but I'm sure google will help u faster
[19:10] <nubae> search webdav moodle
[19:10] <joerg> I am not looking at moodle
[19:10] <joerg> I am talking about mahara
[19:10] <nubae> if nothing comes up I'll give u 100 dollars
[19:10] <joerg> the my files part of mahara
[19:11] <joerg> a personal home directory
[19:11] <nubae> mahara ties into moodle 100 percent
[19:11] <nubae> so whatever is possible with moodle is possible with mahara
[19:12] <joerg> I dont see any moodle
[19:12] <nubae> look.... if u really want to see what it does and how it integrates, do what I said, follow the instructions on installing the 2 and integrating
[19:12] <nubae> it'll take u half an hour at most
[19:12] <nubae> u dont see any moodle what?
[19:14] <nubae> ok,found the other progrma Italc
[19:14] <joerg> I have a demo account at mahara.org
[19:14] <nubae> if u havent seen that, take a look
[19:14] <nubae> that is REALLY impressive
[19:14] <nubae> and does the lockdown stuff u were talking about with you tube
[19:15] <joerg> I know it
[19:15] <joerg> and it has absolutely nothing to do with proxy filters
[19:15] <nubae> I never mentioned and u never mentioned proxy filters
[19:15] <joerg> I said allowing and denying internet access
[19:16] <nubae> u said blocking youtube on a remte machine
[19:16] <joerg> which has to do with proxies and firewalls
[19:16] <joerg> and not with teachers playing big brother
[19:16] <nubae> heh... thats not what I would call I talc,but never mind
[19:16] <joerg> yes, that is proxy filtering / blacklisting of certain sites
[19:16] <joerg> because they contain P0RN or whatever :P
[19:17] <joerg> or the solution of the current task :)
[19:17] <nubae> for what u are mentioning dansguardian is the defalto standard
[19:17] <nubae> along with squid
[19:17] <joerg> ok and where's the web frontend?
[19:17] <nubae> why anyone else would use something different is beyong me
[19:17] <joerg> where the teacher can add a url?
[19:17] <nubae> therer are lots
[19:17] <nubae> I use webmin
[19:17] <joerg> or domain? to be blocked for the next 34 minutes?
[19:18] <joerg> and webmin does time based proxy filtering?
[19:18] <nubae> and dansguardian has a great little gui
[19:18] <nubae> dansguardian does
[19:18] <nubae> also there is ufw
[19:19] <nubae> which has a great gui
[19:19] <nubae> look im not attacking your product
[19:19] <nubae>  think itlooks wonderfuk
[19:19] <nubae> wonderful
[19:19] <joerg> give me a link :P
[19:20] <nubae> but almost everything we can think of has already been done some place
[19:20] <joerg> for a web based gui
[19:20] <joerg> where a teacher can login with his ldap account
[19:20] <nubae> for what dansguardian?
[19:20] <nubae> actaully
[19:20] <joerg> and select: room 211 -> computer 1 -> block youtube for 23 minutes
[19:20] <nubae> i'll give u one better
[19:20] <nubae> hang on
[19:20] <joerg> we have dansguardian
[19:20] <nubae> cause we used this at guadalinex-edu
[19:21] <nubae> i used to work there
[19:21] <joerg> if it allows teachers to block things forever, forget it :)
[19:21] <joerg> we are not talking about cool web based firewall tools.
[19:21] <joerg> we are talking about a gui for very stupid people
[19:22] <alkisg> How does the blocking work? The teacher has root access to all the client PCs and inserts some iptable rules?
[19:22] <joerg> who will block internet access on all machines
[19:22] <alkisg> Or with squid and inetd?
[19:22] <joerg> and go away having forgotten about it
[19:22] <nubae> https://launchpad.net/webcontentcontrol
[19:22] <joerg> next person comes, nothing works.
[19:22] <nubae> eat your heart out
[19:22] <joerg> in our setup?
[19:22] <joerg> teachers logs in to myserv
[19:22] <joerg> selectes a room
[19:22] <joerg> selects some hosts
[19:22] <joerg> or all hosts.
[19:23] <joerg> tells the number of minutes
[19:23] <nubae> joerg check out that link
[19:23] <nubae> and install
[19:23] <joerg> and says "block" or "unblock"
[19:23] <alkisg> Not the GUI, the backend, how does it work technically?
[19:23] <nubae> there is nothing better out there i guarantee it
[19:24] <joerg> alkisg, that depends....it only executes a command.
[19:24] <alkisg> With root privileges?
[19:24] <alkisg> I.e. does each teacher have root privileges to all PCs?
[19:24] <joerg> alkisg, what we are doing at the moment: add it to a text file with ips that are blocked by squidguard
[19:24] <joerg> and add an ip tables rule to block forwarding for that host
[19:24] <nubae> alkisg. http://demo.myserv-project.org
[19:24] <joerg> alkisg, the teacher logs into a web gui, the gateway/proxy.
[19:25] <alkisg> Is there anything that prevents the clients from not using that proxy?
[19:25] <joerg> alkisg, and that web app has sudo rights on a script that blocks/allows
[19:25] <joerg> if you only use the proxy to block it...
[19:25] <joerg> ...you don't need sudo/root
[19:25] <joerg> alkisg, yes
[19:26] <joerg> you either use it or you don't have internet access
[19:26] <nubae> joerg did u check out  webcontentcontrol?
[19:26] <joerg> unless you bring your own 3G device or so :)
[19:26] <alkisg> joerg: so it won't work on all schools - only specially configured schools, right?
[19:26] <joerg> no, I cannot explain things to him and check out sth at the same time :P
[19:26] <joerg> alkisg, hmm?
[19:27] <joerg> if you want internet
[19:27] <alkisg> I.e. I can't use my router as the gateway, I need to use a special server for a gateway
[19:27] <joerg> you need to have a gateway/proxy
[19:27] <joerg> which usually runs on linux
[19:27] <alkisg> So in order to use your program in my school, I'd need a specially configured server, right?
[19:27] <joerg> yes sure....
[19:27] <joerg> you need users/groups etc.
[19:28] <joerg> or find a way how the server can tell your router what to do :P
[19:28] <alkisg> Can you block access by user?
[19:28] <alkisg> Or only by PC?
[19:28] <alkisg> E.g. will it work in ltsp environments, where all users are essentically on the server?
[19:29] <joerg> nubae, forget it :P
[19:29] <joerg> sorry to say it
[19:29] <joerg> but the interface is overkill
[19:29] <joerg> tinyproxy on? dansguardian on?
[19:29] <joerg> teachers will already give up here because they dont know what that is.
[19:30] <nubae> joerg, perhaps, but it does what u said, and way more
[19:30] <joerg> apart from that, it cannot manage multiple hosts/rooms/ips/mac adresses
[19:30] <joerg> seems to be for parents blocking certain stuff on a single machine
[19:30] <nubae> I'm just syaing... there is nothing out there that hasnt already been done
[19:30] <alkisg> The only way I found to block internet access by user, was to use squid with inetd.
[19:30] <joerg> nubae, this is NOT doing what I said
[19:30] <nubae> if yours looks nicer and works simpler kudos
[19:30] <joerg> it is NOT web based
[19:31] <joerg> it does not authenticate me and check if I am a teacher
[19:31] <joerg> it does not show me rooms/hosts I have at my school
[19:31] <nubae> then search dansguardian and gui
[19:31] <nubae> u'll find lots
[19:31] <nubae> ubuntu christian editinon has it installed by default
[19:32] <joerg> lool
[19:32] <joerg> alkisg, inetd?
[19:32] <alkisg> joerg: yes, it is used to tell squid which user is requesting the page
[19:32] <joerg> you mean identd?
[19:32] <alkisg> Otherwise user-based filtering doesn't work
[19:32] <alkisg> Yes, sorry
[19:32] <alkisg> identd.
[19:33] <nubae> joerg, actually... guadalinex-edu just developed something like that, based on avahi...
[19:33] <joerg> if you trust your machines
[19:33] <nubae> wrks great
[19:33] <joerg> I'd use squid + ldap
[19:33] <joerg> and proxy auth
[19:33] <nubae> lets u control every room in a school and every app
[19:33] <nubae> does single sign on
[19:33] <alkisg> joerg: so the students would have to authenticate to the proxy to access the internet?
[19:33] <joerg> yes
[19:34] <alkisg> Can that be automated for younger students?
[19:34] <nubae> but dont think thye released it yet.... or maybe they did... it had a funny name
[19:34] <joerg> nubae, are you a teacher?
[19:34] <joerg> have you really dealt with everyday problems at a school for years?
[19:34] <nubae> joerg, anyway, would u like me to doa write up of your product or not
[19:35] <nubae> actually I am a teacher
[19:35] <nubae> though a dev too
[19:35] <joerg> you are serving me a new name of some "cool app" every 2 minutes here
[19:35] <joerg> and there's instead of mahara nothing that you could ever use in a school
[19:35] <nubae> joerg yes I have
[19:35] <joerg> because all of it is for ADMINs
[19:35] <joerg> and cannot be used by ppl without technical skills
[19:36] <nubae> I disagree, but hye
[19:36] <joerg> did you ever confront a teacher for latin and religion with webmin?
[19:36] <nubae> 40% off British schools use moodle
[19:36] <nubae> and many use mahara as a plugin
[19:36] <nubae> its the most widely used (by TEACHERS) app in the world
[19:37] <joerg> and how many percent of british teachers are able to configure dansguardian through one of your proposed guis?
[19:37] <joerg> and how many of them are able to use webmin?
[19:37] <joerg> sorry, but they call us and ask if we know where the enter key is :)
[19:38] <nubae> well, the ones I've trained have had no problems... but usually itis NOT a teacher that run webmin or dansguardian
[19:38] <joerg> or why they can't upload a 200mb file through their dialup
[19:38] <nubae> why would they?
[19:38] <joerg> because they are writing an exam in the room
[19:38] <joerg> and don't want that the students can access the web in the next 45 minutes
[19:39] <nubae> joerg, to be honest.. I'm much more interested in teaching with real simple tools to young kids (4-9)
[19:39] <nubae> I use sugar for that
[19:39] <joerg> yeah, I know it.
[19:39] <joerg> for the primary schools we don't need all that stuff
[19:39] <joerg> but for a 17 yo highschool teenie, things are different
[19:39] <nubae> well, thats what I'm currently really using.... and focusign on
[19:40] <joerg> yeah
[19:40] <joerg> or e.g. in my high school youtube.com is blocked
[19:40] <joerg> because they have a very slow dsl line
[19:40] <nubae> but I have a blog, and I do write ups on interesting school products
[19:40] <joerg> and if it is not blocked, the traffic is so much that other's cant really work anymore.
[19:40] <nubae> would u like me to write up something on myserv, yes or no?
[19:41] <joerg> but for certain projects, e.g. a video project, teachers want youtube.
[19:41] <nubae> I dont really want to waste any more time on this
[19:41] <joerg> so they should have a way to whitelist youtube for the particular room for e.g. 45 minutes
[19:41] <joerg> becuase if it is not timed, they will forget to lock it
[19:41] <joerg> and it will stay whitelisted forever
[19:42] <joerg> nubae, no
[19:42] <nubae> okm :-)
[19:42] <joerg> nubae, I don't think anybody who says that he doesn't want to "waste time" on my project could write anything objective about it.
[19:42] <joerg> you are just giving me names of software that you probably never really used.
[19:43] <joerg> to give me the feeling that I am so stupid and develop things that are already there.
[19:43] <joerg> what do you want to write if you don't even want to understand what it is about?
[19:43] <nubae> I didnt say that
[19:44] <joerg> and why all your webmin and technical admin stuff is not the solution for an arts teachers that wants to allow youtube for his video project
[19:44] <nubae> I said I dont want to waste any more time arguing about what we'vee been arguiing about
[19:44] <nubae> but thre are many projects out there
[19:45] <joerg> yes, and that means you don't want to waste time on understanding why I believe that this solution is new and unique.
[19:45] <nubae> so if u dont want attention on yours, and from what u've read, u'll see I'm always impartial, thats your perogative
[19:45] <joerg> I just don't want anybody to write about a project that he doesn't know in detail
[19:46] <joerg> write about sugar or whatever stuff you have experience with.
[19:46] <nubae> I told u I would study it and then do the write up
[19:46] <nubae> but u are far far too defensive...
[19:46] <nubae> so lets just leave it at that
[19:47] <nubae> your loss, not mine
[19:47] <joerg> lol
[19:47] <nubae> It would be MY time I would be usin
[19:47] <nubae> u'd have nothing to loose
[19:48] <joerg> I don't need negative publicity
[19:48] <nubae> u obviously thnink you've created gods masterpiece... I wish u all the best...
[19:48] <joerg> I am trying to explain you some points
[19:48] <joerg> and you simply send me links and names and so on
[19:48] <nubae> it wouldnt have been negative at all
[19:48] <joerg> telling me: why myserv? look at xyz
[19:48] <nubae> I stated several times I thouhgt it looked excellent
[19:49] <joerg> and I look at xyz and think: what the HELL has it to do with the things you just said? :)
[19:49] <joerg> the thing is: I am trying to explain you by example why we are not using solutions that are already there.
[19:49] <joerg> I am talking about differences and advantages.
[19:50] <joerg> and you say: but xyz can do this too....and that's mostly not the case.
[19:50] <joerg> how do you want to write an in-depth article about myserv?
[19:50] <joerg> e.g. if it comes to webdav access
[19:50] <joerg> mounting local drives
[19:50] <nubae> no actually, I dont anymore
[19:50] <joerg> you tell me how cool mahara is
[19:51] <nubae> please just stop talking now
[19:51] <joerg> but if I ask you: is it possible to mount it as drive....you don't know it.
[19:51] <joerg> yes, sorry....
[19:51] <joerg> but either you give me a FAIR chance or you leave it.
[19:52] <joerg> but I am tired of looking at x, y and z and trying to explain you why it does not do what we need.
[19:52] <nubae> gosh I'm just gonna leave the channel for a while, this is getting ridiculous
[19:52] <joerg> lol
[19:56] <joerg> :(
[19:56] <joerg> maybe I should stop developing open source software
[19:56] <joerg> if the only feedback I get is that my work is senseless :(
[20:02] <joerg> alkisg, sorry
[20:03] <alkisg> np, you guys really shouldn't be fighting for open source software. Anyway I gotta do some work, bbl.
[20:03] <joerg> no
[20:03] <joerg> but do you know how that feeling is?
[20:03] <joerg> you have a project, you believe in the ideas
[20:04] <joerg> and somebody is asking you what the advantages and concepts are
[20:04] <joerg> you explain an advantage, the other person says: abcd can do it as well.
[20:04] <joerg> you have a quick look at abcd's web page and it cannot do it.
[20:05] <joerg> I can better go and make proprietary stuff and make money with it
[20:05] <joerg> instead of doing idealistic stuff for people who don't they thank you or anything positive.
[20:09] <joerg> and no, I am NOT gonna announce it on the mailinglist anymore.
[20:21] <joerg> bye
[22:50] <LedHed> When using LTSP, I want a client to execute a script that requires a name be set.  I wanted to use the devices hostname,  but when I use `hostname` in my script I get the servers hostname.  How can I get the hostname from the client via script?
[22:52] <alkisg> $LTSP_CLIENT_HOSTNAME
[22:52] <LedHed> alkisg, thank you!
[22:52] <alkisg> np
[23:03] <LedHed> alkisg, can I set the client hostname via DHCP?
[23:05] <alkisg> LedHed: In karmic+, yes
[23:05] <alkisg> You can also set it from lts.conf
[23:05] <LedHed> alkisg, I'm using Lucid,
[23:06] <LedHed> How do I config ltsp clients to grab the hostname via DHCP? is it an option in lts.conf?
[23:07] <alkisg> No, if you want to set it by dhcp, that's done from /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
[23:08] <alkisg> You can also set it from lts.conf, but that isn't dhcp anymore. It has the same effect, though
[23:08] <alkisg> [ma:ca:dr:es:s]
[23:08] <alkisg> HOSTNAME=xxx
[23:08] <alkisg> For dhcpd.conf you'd need to google it, it's easy but I don't use dhcpd.conf so I can't have an example handy
[23:08] <LedHed> alkisg, ok.  I'm already setting the hostname via DHCP Reservation.
[23:09] <LedHed> the clients just dont seem to be getting it.
[23:09] <LedHed> Its a Windows DHCP server
[23:09] <alkisg> Hmmm ok then do some debugging:
[23:09] <LedHed> I will.  Thanks for the help
[23:09] <alkisg> replace "quiet splash" with "break=init" in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
[23:09] <alkisg> Then boot a client
[23:10] <alkisg> You'll get a busybox shell
[23:10] <alkisg> In that shell, type: cat /etc/net-eth0.conf
[23:10] <alkisg> And see if it got the hostname.
[23:10] <LedHed> ok,  thanks.  I would never have thought of doing that