2008/11/24/#edubuntu.txt

[02:26] <Ahmuck> how many instructors are involved in the edubuntu project?
[02:26] <Ahmuck> K-12 educational instructors
[02:26] <sbalneav> None, as far as I know.
[02:26] <sbalneav> Contributers, at least.
[02:27] <Ahmuck> what is a contributer?
[02:27] <sbalneav> Well, someone contributing code, writing docs, etc.
[02:27] <Ahmuck> so it's not just code, correct?
[02:28] <sbalneav> Well, there's packaging, fixing bugs, writing docs, maintaining the wiki, etc.
[02:28] <Ahmuck> beyond the edubuntu project, there is kde education, etc.  does gnome also have an educational department?
[02:28] <sbalneav> No, there's no parallel with kde-edu team in Gnome, AFAIK
[02:29] <Ahmuck> what other organizations in the linux world are there targeting education?
[02:30] <sbalneav> Well, there's The Fedora K12 project, Edubuntu, and upstream, kdeedu.
[02:30] <sbalneav> In europe, there's also skolelinux
[02:31] <sbalneav> skolelinux uses an older version of Debian
[02:32] <sbalneav> A large number of the people who are involved with the Fedora K12 are ALSO involved with Edubuntu
[02:32] <Ahmuck> http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7181/ - i found this article
[02:32] <sbalneav> and most are actively involved with LTSP
[02:33] <Ahmuck> ltsp is used by major distros (commercial)
[02:33] <Ahmuck> ?
[02:34] <sbalneav> Yes, LTSP is now included as part of Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, and SuSE.
[02:34] <Ahmuck> sold commercially with comercial support?
[02:34] <Ahmuck> though i don't think debian sells anything
[02:35] <sbalneav> Well, The LTSP project itself doesn't have commercial support.  But Ubuntu sells commercial support.
[02:35] <sbalneav> And Warren Togami, who's the founder of the Fedora project, is actively involved in LTSP, and I'm sure it will eventually make it's way into RHEL.
[02:35] <Ahmuck> as well as Fedora, Suse ?
[02:36] <Ahmuck> er, RedHat
[02:36] <Ahmuck> Are you aware of any large installations (commercial) of LTSP?
[02:36] <sbalneav> Define large?
[02:36] <Ahmuck> Blue Cross and Blue Shield
[02:37] <Ahmuck> American Family Insuranse
[02:37] <Ahmuck> A college
[02:37] <Ahmuck> A state government
[02:37] <Ahmuck> or a medium sized business
[02:37] <sbalneav> Well, where I work, we run on LTSP, which is 200+ workstations.
[02:38] <sbalneav> I know the telecentros project in Brazil uses it, which is 10,000 + terminals.
[02:38] <sbalneav> the University of Amazonia uses it.  Several thousand terminals.
[02:38] <sbalneav> etc.
[02:39] <Ahmuck> in the usa, are you aware of any large educational installations?
[02:41] <sbalneav> I'm not in the USA, but I know Ellesworth High School uses Edubuntu, and there's some municiple government in Florida that has 400+ ltsp terminals.
[02:42] <Ahmuck> http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/SuccessStories#Local_Net_Solutions_installs_7_s
[02:44] <sbalneav> K so, there you go.
[02:46] <Ahmuck> so there are no educators in edubuntu or kde education, etc?
[02:46] <Ahmuck> that you are aware of, primarily coders
[02:46] <sbalneav> No, unfortunalely.
[02:47] <sbalneav> We'd love to have some.  But until we get some, you're stuck with us.
[02:47] <sbalneav> You're an educator, right?
[02:50] <Ahmuck> my mother is.  i teach, but not in the education system.  i teach via lugs and promotion via lugs through county fairs, and creating lugs
[02:51] <Ahmuck> i'm connected to the education system through people
[02:53]  * Ahmuck goes to peruse edubuntu's website
[02:57] <Ahmuck> does the ubuntu site list a set of apps for homework management, etc.?
[02:57] <Ahmuck> school planning, school calendar?
[03:02] <sbalneav> I can't remember the one that's an installable package in Ubuntu.
[03:03] <sbalneav> but there is a CMS for classrooms.
[03:06] <Ahmuck> essentially edubuntu provides a base and then requires the educator to set up the other aspects
[03:06] <Ahmuck> would there be a reason to build a ubuntu ltsp distro with a set of pre-installed pre-configured packages for educators?
[03:07] <sbalneav> Um, that's what Edubuntu is/
[03:07] <sbalneav> Edubuntu comes with a set of pre-installed apps, and sets up an LTSP network for you.
[03:08] <sbalneav> Or is there something that you feel Edubuntu ISN'T providing that it should.
[03:08] <sbalneav> Ah
[03:08] <sbalneav> Moodle.
[03:09] <sbalneav> i   moodle  - Course Management System for Online Learning
[03:52] <sbalneav> wb Ahmuck
[04:14] <nothingman> I'm not getting anything when I log into my edubuntu server from a graphical login screen; just a black screen with the arrow cursor; I also can't seem to add users from the users-admin screen, though my user is the only one I've added so far
[04:14] <nothingman> PS: hi, all!
[04:15] <Ahmuck> from a ltsp client?
[04:15] <Ahmuck> or from the gdm on the server?
[04:15] <nothingman> from a client
[04:16] <nothingman> from the gdm on the server, I login fine, but am unable to add users
[04:16] <Ahmuck> [22:15] <nothingman> I also have my edubuntu ltsp server here at home to troubleshoot before I bring it back to the school tomorrow, but no screen to attach to it and the 'net-side interface is a wireless one set to connect to the school's AP; can I ssh into the terminal-side interface if it's connected to my router?
[04:17] <nothingman> thx, Ahmuck
[04:18] <Ahmuck> so ur sshing from home to the server at home via a thin client you've connected through ?
[04:18] <Ahmuck> headless server?
[04:18] <Ahmuck> thin client at home?
[04:19] <nothingman> haven't tried one yet
[04:19] <nothingman> only have one cat5 cable here, I think
[04:19] <Ahmuck> i'm confused
[04:19] <nothingman> sshing from my laptop to the server
[04:20] <Ahmuck> server is at home and headless, and your connecting from the laptop to the server via ssh wirelessly
[04:20] <nothingman> right
[04:20] <nothingman> but the server is plugged in from the term-side interface to the router
[04:21] <nothingman> is ssh available by default on that interface?
[04:21] <Ahmuck> laptop (wireless) --> router (wireless AP) --> server
[04:21] <nothingman> I work for two private schools in my area with laptops whose drives have been dying since the warranty expired; a working edubuntu server would be a big win
[04:21] <sbalneav> nothingman: What kind of thin client are you using?
[04:22] <nothingman> Ahmuck, yes, but with the server connected by a wire
[04:22] <nothingman> sbalneav: none atm
[04:23] <sbalneav> So, the "nothing at the graphical login screens" at the console?
[04:23] <Ahmuck> i assume your wanting to do it this way because you are testing it this way to do it similar at school?
[04:23] <sbalneav> of the server?
[04:23] <nothingman> sbalneav: laptops with dead HDs at the school, where I get the black screen
[04:24] <sbalneav> Do you have one there to test with?
[04:24] <Ahmuck> ur wanting to boot the laptops with ltsp?
[04:24] <nothingman> Ahmuck: no, have a monitor I'd like to attach but it's not capable of the same resolution, so I have to change xorg.conf first
[04:24] <nothingman> sbalneav: yes, but I don't think I have another cord
[04:25] <Ahmuck> can you boot your laptop hooked up directly to the ltsp server via a cord?
[04:25] <sbalneav> Kinda hard to help you debug a problem without the problem being there to work on. :)
[04:25] <Ahmuck> cord/cable
[04:25] <Ahmuck> hook the laptop up to the server client side and boot via network.  open a terminal and change the resolution
[04:27] <nothingman> Ahmuck; I don't have a crossover cable, and no extra cat5
[04:27] <Ahmuck> inet --> wireless router --> server --> laptop
[04:27] <Ahmuck> the nics aren't auto sense?
[04:27] <nothingman> is ssh enabled by default on the termside nic, or no?
[04:27] <nothingman> Ahmuck: no
[04:27] <sbalneav> nothingman: yes it is.
[04:28] <nothingman> OK, strange
[04:28] <Ahmuck> sorry
[04:28] <nothingman> no prob
[04:28] <sbalneav> ltsp uses ssh to log in, so it should be enabled.
[04:28] <sbalneav> if it's not, that's a problem.
[04:38] <nothingman_> back again
[04:38] <nothingman_> had to mess with my ip config
[04:38] <nothingman_> now I was able to log in
[04:38] <nothingman_> and change my xorg.conf
[04:38] <nothingman_> now, can anyone answer my question about getting a black screen on login from a terminal?
[04:39] <nothingman_> a client, I mean
[04:39] <nothingman_> and about not being able to administer users from users-admin
[04:40] <sbalneav> OK, are you talking about administering the users from a thin client?
[04:40] <Ahmuck> blinking cursor ?
[04:40] <sbalneav> Because there's a bug in the consolekit that makes the user config fail if done from a thin client.
[04:40] <nothingman_> Ahmuck: no, pointer, from the ldm screen login to just a black screen with the cursor
[04:40] <sbalneav> as for the blinking cursor on a thin client, once again: can you hook up one of them to try?
[04:41] <Ahmuck> sbalneav: he's getting a mouse arrow with black screen
[04:41] <Ahmuck> it's failing after login
[04:41] <nothingman_> sbalneav: no, from a gdm-logged-in console attached directly (kv&m) to the server
[04:41] <nothingman_> separate issues
[04:41] <nothingman_> black screen is logging in from a thin client, users-admin I'm trying to run from a gdm login
[04:41]  * Ahmuck goes back to being quiet
[04:41] <sbalneav> ok, so what happens when you try to add a user?
[04:43] <nothingman_> absolutely nothing, all buttons are greyed out except for "Manage Groups", "Help" and "Close"
[04:43] <sbalneav> are you trying to run users-admin from a user that has admin priviledges?
[04:43] <sbalneav> try this
[04:43] <nothingman_> afaict, yes
[04:43] <nothingman_> the only user I set up
[04:43] <nothingman_> not root, though
[04:43] <sbalneav> as that user open up a terminal
[04:43] <sbalneav> then type "id"
[04:43] <nothingman_> OK
[04:43] <sbalneav> paste the results
[04:44] <nothingman_> groups: adm,dialout,cdrom,plugdev,lpadmin,admin,sambashare,jmarris
[04:44] <nothingman_> uid=1000(jmarris) gid=1000(jmarris) groups=4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),46(plugdev),110(lpadmin),119(admin),126(sambashare),1000(jmarris)
[04:44] <nothingman_> the first line I typed by hand to be quick, not that it was
[04:45] <nothingman_> what group am I missing?
[04:46] <sbalneav> So, there isn't an "unlock" button on the bottom of the users and groups manager?
[04:46] <nothingman_> correct
[04:47] <sbalneav> ok, at the same command prompt, what happens if you type "sudo -i"
[04:47] <nothingman_> I get the root prompt
[04:48] <sbalneav> And what version of ubuntu are you running?
[04:48] <nothingman_> 8.10
[04:48] <sbalneav> Not sure then.
[04:49] <sbalneav> works here on mine, but I'm running hardy.
[04:49] <sbalneav> I never use the graphical user manager anyway, I always just use the command line tools.
[04:50] <sbalneav> I'd say it sounds like a bug, myself.
[04:50] <sbalneav> are all your updates... up to date? :)
[04:51] <nothingman_> yeah, when I left on Thursday they were
[04:52] <sbalneav> hmm
[04:52] <sbalneav> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/231246
[04:52] <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 231246 in policykit "'Unlock' button in admin utilities greyed out (dup-of: 210897)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[04:52] <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 210897 in consolekit "sudo *something which uses poliykit?* doesn't work" [Medium,Confirmed]
[04:52] <sbalneav> Seems to indicate it's related to what's in /etc/hosts
[04:52] <sbalneav> cat you paste your /etc/hosts to the pastebin?
[04:52] <sbalneav> !pastebin
[04:52] <ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
[04:53] <nothingman_> interesting
[04:53] <nothingman_> I have 127.0.0.1 localhost
[04:53] <nothingman_> and 127.0.1.1 ubuntu
[04:53] <nothingman_> I thought I changed it to tech-server or something like that
[04:53] <sbalneav> that's it for your /etc/hosts?
[04:54] <sbalneav> what do you have for 127.0.1.1?
[04:54] <nothingman_> no, I'll do that
[04:55] <sbalneav> so whatever the hostname is
[04:55] <nothingman_> strange that mozilla SeaMonkey doesn't open in new tabs like FF
[04:55] <nothingman_> ubuntu
[04:55] <nothingman_> ubuntu again
[04:55] <sbalneav> then you'll want a line like 127.0.1.1 ubuntu
[04:55] <nothingman_> that's what it is
[04:57] <nothingman_> I'm getting silence; is everyone there?
[04:58] <sbalneav> I'm here
[04:58] <nothingman_> k, thx
[04:59] <nothingman_> I have a Win machine that has crapware installed using my connection, too
[04:59] <nothingman_> trying to get to Wupdate on it
[04:59] <nothingman_> so it's taking up quite a bit of bandwidth
[04:59] <sbalneav> As for the black screen, in order to help you debug that, I'd need to have you hook up the thin client.
[05:00] <nothingman_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/76254/
[05:01] <sbalneav> when you type the "hostname" command at the prompt, that's what you get?
[05:01] <nothingman_> OK
[05:01] <nothingman_> there's nothing I could do once I have a user enabled to login from it to ensure a desktop shows up eventually on the thin client?
[05:02] <sbalneav> A user should be able to log into the thin client no problem
[05:02] <nothingman_> yup
[05:02] <sbalneav> Does the thin client get the login screen?
[05:03] <nothingman_> yeah
[05:03] <nothingman_> and after I login as my (sole) user from that term, it goes away and there's just a black background and the pointer cursor
[05:03] <sbalneav> K, well, that shounds like the ssh wasn't running.
[05:04] <nothingman_> actually, I've been logged into the termside ssh this whole time
[05:04] <nothingman_> since I changed my laptop's and router's IPs
[05:05] <Ahmuck> interesting, i had the same problem with user addition
[05:06] <Ahmuck> so i thought i would use sabayon, but sabayon crashes on me
[05:06] <nothingman_> how did you fix it?
[05:06] <Ahmuck> i haven't
[05:07] <nothingman_> no clues from my hosts file, sbalneav?
[05:09] <sbalneav> What does the output of 'polkit-auth --show-obtainable' give you
[05:12] <nothingman_> com.ubuntu.devicedriver.install
[05:12] <sbalneav> that's it?
[05:13] <nothingman_> yup
[05:15] <sbalneav> Something's broken with your policykit then, I'd say.
[05:15] <sbalneav> what does ck-list-sessions give you?
[05:15] <nothingman_> what's the command for the gnome policykit admin utility?
[05:16] <sbalneav> darned if I know, like I say, I always use the command line for all admin activities.
[05:16] <sbalneav> That always works :)
[05:19] <nothingman_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/76265/
[05:19] <sbalneav> how are you doing this?
[05:20] <sbalneav> You're logged in via ssh?
[05:20] <sbalneav> I thought you were logged in at the console?
[05:21] <sbalneav> your display device is /dev/ssh
[05:21] <sbalneav> That shouldn't be if you're on the console.
[05:22] <nothingman_> huzzah!
[05:23] <nothingman_> I changed "root" in PolicyKit.conf to "jmarris"
[05:23] <nothingman_> shabizzle!
[05:23] <sbalneav> Shouldn't need to do that.
[05:24] <sbalneav> You've got something else wrong, but whatever.
[05:24] <nothingman_> yeah, but I couldn't run the gui policykit tools from the command line
[05:24] <nothingman_> so ftm, it works
[05:25] <nothingman_> now I can change my defaults in the gui, then change that back and I'm secure again
[05:37] <nothingman_> still there?
[05:40]  * Ahmuck writes that down
[05:42] <sbalneav> I'm still here, yeah
[05:42] <Ahmuck> is that a bug?
[05:42] <Ahmuck> any reason a default install would have to modify the policykit.conf?
[05:42] <Ahmuck> shouldn't the su be able to do this?
[05:44] <sbalneav> Policy kit's tied up with the hostname, so since he's taken the machine out of the school and has it at home, I'd say it now has a different concept of "who it is" and that's where the problem lies.
[05:45] <nothingman_> had this problem at the school, actually
[05:45] <Ahmuck> same here
[05:45] <Ahmuck> vanilla install
[05:46] <Ahmuck> so, only able to change on physical host?  unable to change via a thin client?
[05:46] <nothingman_> reading through that launchpad, it seems the default policy is for *no* user but root to have any control over the system
[05:46] <Ahmuck> this might fix a lot of things for me
[05:47] <sbalneav> Yes, currently, policy kit doesn't know anything about ltsp terminals.
[05:47] <nothingman_> and adding a line -- something to do with auth_as_admin, or some such, will allow an admin group user to change it, rather than mucking the way I did
[05:47] <nothingman_> Ahmuck, I was sshing from an Ubuntu laptop connected through the term-side interface
[05:48] <Ahmuck> ran across a firefox addon called glubble
[05:48] <Ahmuck> interesting, but not sure i want it on, as everytime the browser opens, it opens that as an added tab
[05:56] <Ahmuck> nm, glubble is great for what were trying to do
[05:57] <Ahmuck> i can restrict children to children's pages by setting up firefox on that user with gubble kid's page
[06:03] <Ahmuck> that is a kewl kid's browser
[06:24] <Ahmuck> edubuntu needs a firefox extension similar to glubble.  a whitelist browser
[15:53] <nothingman> hi, all
[15:53] <nothingman> still having the trouble with a black screen on logging in via thin client
[16:00] <nothingman> I don't see anything in the documentation about setting up a desktop for users, though I assume having an appropriate .xsession file would be sufficient
[16:07] <nothingman> hi, all
[16:07] <nothingman> still having trouble logging in from a thin client
[16:10] <nothingman> I get a black screen with the arrow cursor
[16:12] <nothingman> nothing in the documentation seems to explain how to create a desktop for a user
[16:13] <nothingman> can anyone explain why I wouldn't have user home directories in my /opt/ltsp/i386?
[16:21] <nothingman> is anyone here?
[18:16]  * highvoltage could do with a chocolate milkshake right now
[19:40] <Fritz87> hello
[20:27] <Knight709> hey everybody! I'm looking for statistics or research about the disadvantages that comes with a lack of computers in education, has anyone had any experience on the subject or have any suggestions for a good place to look?
[20:28] <Knight709> I'm finding a lot of opinions but I havent had much luck with finding anything research-supported
=== Knight709 is now known as Fritz87
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
[21:22] <Fritz87> hey guys, what do you think of this idea for a school: laptop carts moved from room to room with netbooks running edubuntu
[21:23] <Fritz87> 1 cart per 5 classrooms
[21:23] <Fritz87> preferrably the eee pc 1000/1000h/1000ha (good keyboard, other stats are good, ~450 dollars)
[22:15] <Ahmuck> Fritz87: actually our school district here is doing that with windows
[22:24] <nubae> Ahmuck: did u try and contact me for something yesterday?
[22:24] <nubae> fatclient related I suppose :-)
[22:58] <Ahmuck> ah, yes
[22:59] <Ahmuck> i followed your tutorial, and everything works, thin clients boot, etc. until i modify the dhcpd.conf and add the fat client section
[22:59] <Ahmuck> then i can no longer boot fat or thin clients
[22:59] <nubae> can u paste your dhcpd.conf
[22:59] <nubae> to pastebin.be