| [03:00] <barry> #startmeeting | |
| [03:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 21:00. The chair is barry. | |
| [03:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | |
| [03:00] <barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's asiapac reviewer's meeting. who's here today? | |
| [03:00] <thumper> here | |
| [03:00] <jml> hi | |
| [03:00] <jml> I am here. | |
| [03:00] <jml> and I bet mwhudson is too | |
| [03:01] <mwhudson> hello | |
| [03:01] <barry> hi guys | |
| [03:02] <barry> apologies for being a little disorganized today. i moved and my isp screwed me over ;) | |
| [03:02] <barry> [TOPIC] agenda | |
| [03:02] <MootBot> New Topic: agenda | |
| [03:02] <barry> * Roll call | |
| [03:02] <barry> * What support can beuno and mrevell offer during the review process? (mrevell) | |
| [03:02] <barry> * Email cover letter to ml after pre-imp call? - barry | |
| [03:02] <barry> * If there's time, the old boring script | |
| [03:02] <barry> * Next meeting | |
| [03:02] <barry> * Action items | |
| [03:02] <barry> * Queue status | |
| [03:02] <barry> * Mentoring update | |
| [03:02] <barry> [TOPIC] * What support can beuno and mrevell offer during the review process? (mrevell) | |
| [03:02] <MootBot> New Topic: * What support can beuno and mrevell offer during the review process? (mrevell) | |
| [03:03] <barry> so, at the ameu meeting we talked about beuno and mrevell helping w/preimps and reviews | |
| [03:03] <barry> beuno mostly about ui stuff and mrevell about help, etc | |
| [03:03] <barry> they're also invited to the reviewer meetings and we can use them in m-p's | |
| [03:04] <mwhudson> i would say, particularly for beuno that review is too late | |
| [03:04] <jml> right. | |
| [03:04] <thumper> agreed | |
| [03:04] <jml> whereas, I think that for doc changes, reviews are at about the right time | |
| [03:04] <barry> mwhudson: yes, agreed, though i wonder if he should be a reviewer for all ui changes | |
| [03:05] <jml> that would be interesting | |
| [03:05] <barry> though he /should/ be involved earlier, maybe he /must/ be involved at review time? | |
| [03:05] <mwhudson> jml: indeed | |
| [03:05] <jml> if he can keep up with the load, I think that would be a good idea | |
| [03:05] <mwhudson> barry: i'd worry that he'd become a bottleneck | |
| [03:05] <mwhudson> but maybe it's worth a try | |
| [03:05] <jml> it'll still add review latency problems | |
| [03:05] <jml> which will discourage trivial UI patches. | |
| [03:06] <jml> although, even if it's a post-merge review it'll probably help | |
| [03:06] <barry> right. i just think with all the redesign going on, we need someone to make sure things are consistent | |
| [03:07] <jml> the big danger to watch out for is ending up with another situation like db patches. | |
| [03:07] <barry> i know review latency is a big problem for you guys | |
| [03:07] <barry> jml: yes, great point | |
| [03:08] <barry> jml: though it'll be different because it wouldn't be on such a limited clock tick | |
| [03:08] <jml> this is why I think post-merge UI reviews are worth considering | |
| [03:08] <mwhudson> yes, that's perhaps a good idea | |
| [03:08] <barry> jml: ui pre-imps & post-merge reviews? | |
| [03:09] <jml> yes, although that brings me to my next thought :) | |
| [03:09] <jml> which is that nominally, we share few core hours with Martin. | |
| [03:09] <jml> that said, 2/3 of us rarely do UI work anyway. | |
| [03:09] <barry> yeah, that does suck | |
| [03:10] <mwhudson> and martin is an insane insomniac | |
| [03:10] * barry had him and sinzui at his house all last week :) | |
| [03:11] <barry> ok. i'll powwow with martin and see if he has some ideas, suggestions, preferences | |
| [03:11] <mwhudson> sounds sane | |
| [03:11] <barry> cool | |
| [03:12] <barry> please do let me know if you have more ideas here. i don't want to impose any more bottlenecks, just looking forward a bit to handling big ui changes | |
| [03:12] <barry> [TOPIC] * Email cover letter to ml after pre-imp call? - barry | |
| [03:12] <MootBot> New Topic: * Email cover letter to ml after pre-imp call? - barry | |
| [03:13] <mwhudson> does anyone actually read the review list any more? | |
| [03:13] <mwhudson> i haven't been able to keep up for months | |
| [03:13] <thumper> I don't | |
| [03:13] <thumper> too busy | |
| [03:13] <barry> mwhudson: i'm thinking of sending it to the launchpad list. bad idea? | |
| [03:13] <thumper> I think that'll make the launchpad list even more unfollowable | |
| [03:14] <mwhudson> anyway | |
| [03:14] <jml> barry: what's the thinking behind the idea? | |
| [03:14] <mwhudson> barry: what | |
| [03:14] <mwhudson> right, what jml said | |
| [03:14] <thumper> is the intent to make people do more pre-impls? | |
| [03:15] <barry> thumper: partly that yes. also so people have a better idea about what is going on and to spur wider discussion -- when people care | |
| [03:15] <barry> you'd probably ignore most of it, but something might catch your eye | |
| [03:16] <barry> better to do so early on than in the review process | |
| [03:16] <barry> i'm trying to write my covers right up front | |
| [03:16] <thumper> if people could give useful subject lines it might help more | |
| [03:16] <jml> hmm. | |
| [03:16] <thumper> so I don't have to read the messages | |
| [03:16] <jml> barry: I wonder if this is the right tool to solve the problem. | |
| [03:17] <barry> jml: maybe not | |
| [03:17] <jml> barry: my cover letters often say what I'm solving, what approach I'm taking and why. But they also discuss details of the implementation that simply aren't there pre-impl | |
| [03:17] <jml> barry: my guess is that if I did cover letters up front, I'd still need something like a cover letter sent on review. | |
| [03:18] <barry> jml: yes. i start the cover when i start the branch. it helps crystallize my thinking. i add pre-imp call notes, then implementation details as i'm working on it, so by the time i'm done, it's an accurate (hopefully helpful) detailed explanation of what i've done | |
| [03:19] <jml> barry: so, another thing we could try is this: | |
| [03:19] <jml> when you start working on something, set the bug to "in progress", and put an interesting comment in. | |
| [03:20] <thumper> or, dare I say it, a work in progress merge proposal | |
| [03:20] <barry> thumper: ? | |
| [03:20] <jml> thumper: I've got a bug filed saying that there should be a stronger association between the two :P | |
| [03:21] <barry> jml: between bugs and m-ps? | |
| [03:21] <jml> barry: specifically between bug/branch links and m-ps | |
| [03:21] <jml> barry: but bugs and m-ps would follow, I hope. | |
| [03:21] <barry> jml: that will be awesome | |
| [03:21] <jml> barry: the bug is pretty vague :) | |
| [03:22] <barry> :) | |
| [03:22] <jml> barry: that said, I do think that using the bug / blueprint tracker for this is the right way to go. | |
| [03:22] <jml> barry: as individuals, we have a finer level of control over what bugs we find interesting. | |
| [03:23] <barry> jml: yes. for me, it all starts at the bug/blueprint | |
| [03:23] <jml> plus we have the advantage of making that decision whenever we wish, rather than when an email appears in our inbox. | |
| [03:23] <barry> right | |
| [03:24] <jml> cool. | |
| [03:24] <barry> that's all i have on this topic. obviously my thoughts aren't fully baked | |
| [03:25] <barry> one more topic not on the agenda | |
| [03:25] * jml needs to configure flashing red lights to go off when bug 173633 gets started. | |
| [03:25] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 173633 in launchpad-bazaar "Listing of branches per-user per-project" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173633 | |
| [03:25] <barry> [TOPIC] mapping m-p states with lp review process | |
| [03:25] <MootBot> New Topic: mapping m-p states with lp review process | |
| [03:25] <barry> or something like that | |
| [03:25] <barry> we had a discussion at ameu about how to map our current lp review states onto m-p states | |
| [03:26] <thumper> which I didn't fully agree with | |
| [03:26] <barry> there was a vigorous discussion about it! | |
| [03:26] <jml> I didn't follow that discussion. | |
| [03:26] <barry> so just to summarize... | |
| [03:26] <barry> we had strong but not unanimous agreement that... | |
| [03:26] <barry> needs-reply == needs-fixing | |
| [03:26] <thumper> +1 | |
| [03:27] <barry> merge-approved == approve | |
| [03:27] <thumper> +1 | |
| [03:27] <barry> merge-conditional == approve + comment | |
| [03:27] <thumper> +1 | |
| [03:27] <barry> and most people don't like resubmit :) | |
| [03:27] * thumper maybe does agree | |
| [03:27] <thumper> we shouldn't have resubmit | |
| [03:27] <thumper> because we talk to each other | |
| [03:27] <barry> or at least, we as lp developers should never get a resubmit | |
| [03:27] <jml> right. pre-impl calls basically make it unnecessary. | |
| [03:27] <thumper> right | |
| [03:27] <barry> though we might when/if we start taking floss contributions | |
| [03:28] <thumper> we don't develop in a vacuum | |
| [03:28] <thumper> barry: agreed | |
| [03:28] <jml> thumper: speak for yourself! | |
| [03:28] <barry> jml: there's no air in oz? | |
| [03:28] <jml> thumper: I find hacking in a vacuum reduces the pressure. | |
| [03:28] <thumper> jml: well, that is certainly true | |
| [03:28] <thumper> jml: and you often get shit done | |
| [03:28] <jml> barry: only the best air on earth! | |
| [03:29] * jml was making a terrible pun, actually | |
| [03:29] <barry> :-D | |
| [03:29] <barry> so, sounds like you guys like the ameu decision? | |
| [03:29] <jml> yeah. | |
| [03:29] <thumper> yep | |
| [03:29] <mwhudson> yes | |
| [03:30] <barry> cool | |
| [03:30] <barry> well, that's it for me. anything on your minds? | |
| [03:30] <thumper> just vegie curry | |
| [03:30] <jml> the absence of lunch :) | |
| [03:31] <barry> you eat, i'll sleep | |
| [03:31] <barry> see you next week! | |
| [03:31] <barry> #endmeeting | |
| [03:31] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 21:31. | |
| [03:31] <jml> see ya :) | |
| [03:31] <barry> thanks guys | |
| [03:31] <jml> barry: thanks | |
| === danilo-afk is now known as danilos | |
| === mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch | |
| === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell | |
| === bac` is now known as bac | |
| === thumper_laptop is now known as thumper | |
| === bac is now known as bac_afk | |
| === bac_afk is now known as bac | |