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	[00:06] <kirkland> slangasek: lp:~kirkland/grub/285269
	[00:25] <kirkland> slangasek: said regression test succeeded
	[00:26] <slangasek> kirkland: great
	[00:56] <slangasek> cody-somerville: do you have that xubuntu docs fix yet?
	[00:57] <cody-somerville> slangasek, I'm going through the motions now to review and then hopefully upload
	[00:58] <slangasek> cody-somerville: ok. I've just stopped the publisher in order to do one last accept && rebuild run for everything before RC; if you can get it uploaded in the next 15min or so that's ideal, otherwise I'll defer xubuntu until the next publisher run and rebuild you then
	[01:20] <cody-somerville> slangasek, test building and test installing and then you'll have the upload
	[01:27] <slangasek> bryce: are you on top of bug #277709, or should I subscribe u-m-s?
	[01:27] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 277709 in mesa "Xorg crashed with SIGSEGV in i830_emit_state" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277709
	[01:27] * bryce looks
	[01:27] <bryce> what is u-m-s?
	[01:27] <slangasek> ubuntu-main-sponsors
	[01:28] <bryce> ah, no need for that. the patch is probably fine, just adds an if check. but I want to look at the original code to see where this comes in
	[01:28] <bryce> I'll take care of it once I've finished my current task
	[01:28] <slangasek> ok
	[01:31] <slangasek> superm1: ping
	[01:31] <slangasek> superm1: unping
	[01:39] <bryce> slangasek: yep patch looks perfect. shall I upload?
	[01:40] <slangasek> bryce: yes please
	[01:56] <slangasek> apachelogger: why are there no bugs referenced in this kdeutils upload?
	[01:58] <slangasek> bryce: do you have a minute to be a sounding board for me on bug #282203?
	[01:58] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 282203 in wacom-tools "Wacom tablet hotplug is no longer enabled by default" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282203
	[01:58] <bryce> slangasek: sure
	[01:59] <apachelogger> slangasek: I didn't find one, ScottK however complained about gz files not being opened properly, I can explain the problem if you want
	[01:59] <slangasek> bryce: so the request is to enable the fdi file by default that will let the tablet be picked up for input hotplugging; this will only work for the stylus, which is why I was avoiding the change
	[01:59] <slangasek> apachelogger: explain it in a bug and subscribe ubuntu-release, please
	[02:00] <apachelogger> slangasek: ok
	[02:01] <slangasek> bryce: but from the attachments in the bug, it's not enough to use the same xorg.conf from hardy on intrepid in order to get full tablet support, because hotplug is all-or-nothing and you have to list all your input devices there, including those that didn't have to be spelled out in hardy?
	[02:01] <slangasek> bryce: do I understand that right?
	[02:02] * bryce nods
	[02:02] <slangasek> ok
	[02:02] <slangasek> that means anyone who needs full tablet support must edit xorg.conf, whether on upgrade or new install; so it doesn't hurt us anything to use hotplug by default
	[02:02] <slangasek> accepting then, thansk
	[02:04] <bryce> yeah as I understand it the issue is something to do with -evdev not handling devices that consist of multiple pieces (tablet, stylus, eraser,...)
	[02:05] <bryce> however I don't know exactly what work's required to get all that going. It's something on my "if I had time, I'd..." list
	[02:08] <slangasek> ogra was talking about needing more fdi files
	[02:08] <slangasek> I'll hit him up for some release notes text tomorrow
	[02:09] <bryce> cool
	[02:09] <slangasek> augh, where did bug #276857 come from
	[02:09] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 276857 in hal "libhal_ctx_init() returns FALSE, causing Xserver to fail to set up keyboard/mouse" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276857
	[02:09] <slangasek> oh, it came from you :-P
	[02:09] <bryce> slangasek: came from ted
	[02:09] <slangasek> ok :)
	[02:10] <bryce> slangasek: got assigned to me since it looked X-ish, but tracing it down, it seems more hal/dbus-ish
	[02:11] <bryce> it's not 100% obvious to me that it's not just a wonky system
	[02:12] <bryce> us developers tend to beat up our systems pretty thoroughly
	[02:12] <slangasek> sure, it's clearly not common-case
	[02:14] <slangasek> cody-somerville: how goes?
	[02:15] <cody-somerville> slangasek, I'm having a little difficulty finding the button to disabling the draft watermark.
	[02:15] <cody-somerville> slangasek, However, I could do the upload now if you need me to
	[02:16] <slangasek> take whatever time you need, just checking whether I should be waiting on you
	[02:16] <slayton> where can I download the intrepid nightly builds?
	[02:16] <cody-somerville> slangasek, Well, you did give me a timeframe
	[02:16] <cody-somerville> slangasek, The changes that need to be made are made
	[02:16] <cody-somerville> slangasek, This is extra
	[02:16] <slangasek> cody-somerville: but that sounds like an "extra" that still needs to be done before release?
	[02:17] <slangasek> mdke: what's the status of ubuntu-docs?
	[02:17] <cody-somerville> slangasek, right - but not critical for release candidate
	[02:17] <cody-somerville> slangasek, so when you want me to upload and can't wait any longer, just shout
	[02:17] <slangasek> cody-somerville: if you're going to continue working on it today, I can wait for you to figure it out or give up for the night :)
	[02:18] <apachelogger> sladen: bug 287312
	[02:18] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 287312 in kdeutils "ark not working properly with gzipped files" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287312
	[02:19] <cody-somerville> slangasek, okay. I'll upload in 5-10 minutes.
	[02:19] <slangasek> apachelogger: thanks
	[02:21] <bryce> slangasek: 277709 uploaded
	[02:22] <cody-somerville> slangasek, okay, found it. testing then will upload.
	[02:32] <superm1> slangasek, i assume the pings were about the NEW bluez-compat? it should end up in universe, it's not supported by upstream at all, but is there to appease anyone that runs into troubles using the wizard and wants to use the old hidd, dund, pand
	[02:34] <slangasek> superm1: yes, thus the un-ping :)
	[02:37] <cody-somerville> slangasek, uploaded
	[02:37] <slangasek> thanks
	[03:05] <Awsoonn> wrt bug 141920, why is an e-book of diveintopython a depend of ubuntu-desktop?
	[03:05] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 141920 in zope2 "Page Templates not working correctly" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/141920
	[03:05] <Awsoonn> bug 241920 rather
	[03:05] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 241920 in ubuntu-meta "Remove diveintopython from default install" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241920
	[03:22] <superm1> Awsoonn, from what i can see in bzr history, it was imported from the warty seeds in 2004, and then at revision 910 was set as a recommend instead of a depend
	[03:24] <slangasek> as for the "why", the short explanation is "because Mark wants it there"
	[03:25] <slangasek> so that Ubuntu is more useful for bootstrapping people into the land of python programming
	[03:28] <nellery> sadly, the link that's supposed to open the ebook from help.ubuntu.com does nothing
	[03:29] <slangasek> nellery: help.ubuntu.com is a wiki; if the link is wrong, fix it?
	[03:29] <Awsoonn> superm1: thanks much. :)
	[03:29] <nellery> https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/programming/C/ar01s01.html
	[03:29] <nellery> it's the official docs
	[03:30] <nellery> it's supposed to open up the file in your system
	[03:31] <slangasek> hmm, the link itself points to the right place
	[03:31] <slangasek> either it's a firefox security issue (no following links to local files), or something is wrong that I'm not catching
	[03:33] <ajmitch> probably the former, I can't get the link to do anything on hardy
	[03:35] <Hobbsee> that link works for me on intrepid
	[03:36] <Awsoonn> link fails for me on intrepid
	[03:36] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: clicking on the dive into python link from the wiki?
	[03:36] <Hobbsee> hrm, wait.
	[03:36] <Hobbsee> no it doesn't.
	[03:36] <Hobbsee> although copying and pasting the link works fine
	[03:37] * Awsoonn confirms Hobbsee
	[03:38] <Awsoonn> on a slightly related note to another project of mine, is it possible to analyse a webcam stream at a pixel level in python?
	=== jamesh_ is now known as jamesh
	[03:51] * NCommander clicks the StevenK light
	[03:51] * StevenK ignores it
	[03:52] * Hobbsee sets NCommander on fire, to create morelight
	[03:52] * NCommander fights himself
	[03:53] <CarlFK> sudo apt-get install dvgrab; Reading package lists... Done; Segmentation fault (core dumped)
	[03:54] <CarlFK> apt-get[11206]: segfault at df21a958 ip b7f765f7 sp bfc2bb20 error 4 in libapt-pkg-libc6.8-6.so.4.6.0[b7f40000+bf000]
	[03:54] <CarlFK> that was on a 12 hour old ibex box
	[03:54] <TheMuso> CarlFK: The only thing I can think of is bad hardware.
	[03:54] <slangasek> CarlFK: is it reproducible?
	[03:54] <slangasek> if not, --> hardware
	[03:55] <CarlFK> well, I hit uparrow, enter, and it happened again. does that count?
	[03:56] <slangasek> yes; now please give us a backtrace, because such crashes aren't debuggable from just the kernel's segfault log
	[04:02] <CarlFK> slangasek: do I do: $ sudo gdb, or \|run sudo apt... in gdb?
	[04:02] <slangasek> CarlFK: sudo gdb
	[04:07] <CarlFK> slangasek: http://dpaste.com/86031/
	[04:12] <slangasek> CarlFK: please file a bug on apt; you'll probably need to provide a copy of /var/lib/apt/lists - this problem isn't reproducible for me
	[04:14] <CarlFK> slangasek: is this the same bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/111934
	[04:14] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 111934 in apt "crash in pkgDepCache::CheckDep" [Undecided,Invalid]
	[04:15] <slangasek> it might be, but it's not possible to say for certain without debugging symbols
	[04:21] <CarlFK> how ironic: $ apt-get source apt; Reading package lists... Done; Segmentation fault (core dumped)
	=== mib_mwtkh7 is now known as icanhas
	[04:35] <CarlFK> um, does apt-get source apt give me a source that will have debuging symbols? line 31 of rules is export CXXFLAGS = -O0 -g -Wall whole file: http://dpaste.com/86032/
	[04:36] <icanhas> pitti: do you really have a fan club?
	[04:36] <TheMuso> CarlFK: You can install debugging symbols from ddebs.ubuntu.com I think it is.
	[04:38] <CarlFK> TheMuso: put that in sources.list and apt-get what?
	[04:39] <TheMuso> CarlFK: Can't remember. Its on the wiki somewhere.
	[04:40] <TheMuso> CarlFK: I just remembered that repo existed.
	[04:41] <CarlFK> wow, google only has one hit
	[04:41] <StevenK> Given his apt crashes, he probably can't apt-get install debugging libraries
	[04:41] <CarlFK> hmm
	[04:42] <CarlFK> good point (which I already confirmed, then forgot )
	[04:42] <CarlFK> wget and dpkg might help
	[04:50] <CarlFK> http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/a/apt/ do I want a .ddeb?
	[04:51] <persia> CarlFK, The ddeb contains the symbols stripped from the binary at compile time on the buildd. IF you're building locally, just pass DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="nostrip"
	[05:15] <calc> what is the cd test channel?
	[05:17] <persia> calc, #ubuntu-testing includes image testing
	[05:18] <calc> ok
	[06:25] <EvanCarroll> anyone use vimperator extention for firefox?
	[06:27] <persia> EvanCarroll, You may be interested in Bug #286225
	[06:27] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 286225 in vimperator "[intrepid] iceweasel-vimperator: Depends: iceweasel (>= 3.0~) but it is not instalable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286225
	[06:30] <EvanCarroll> persia: no, I'm not using the deb for the install
	[06:30] <EvanCarroll> I'm using the xpi
	[06:31] <persia> EvanCarroll, Ah. In that case, I suspect you'll do better to contact the vimperator devs directly.
	[06:33] <EvanCarroll> it just broke today I've been syncing with Ibex daily.
	[06:37] <CarlFK> slangasek: http://dpaste.com/86056/
	[06:37] <CarlFK> 124 ../build/include/apt-pkg/cacheiterators.h: No such file or directory.
	[06:38] <CarlFK> help...
	[06:40] <slangasek> CarlFK: you have the debugging symbols, which is what's important. Please get the output of 'bt full' and file a bug report against apt with that information
	[06:40] <CarlFK> yay. thanks
	[06:41] <slangasek> I can't do much to help you directly with the bug, I'm not an apt developer and I'm rather tied up with the release candidate preparation right now
	[06:41] <CarlFK> no problem - I can work around it easy enough -
	[06:46] <EruditeHermit> hey, will the UDS at googleplex in December be open to all or do you need a pass to attend?
	[06:49] <persia> EruditeHermit, Should be open to all, although there may be passes issued if complex security requires it. Just register your attendance in Launchpad to make sure you're on the list.
	[06:49] <EruditeHermit> persia: I can register even if I am not an Ubuntu developer?
	[06:49] <EruditeHermit> persia: and if I am unable to attend for any reason, it doesn't matter right?
	[06:50] <persia> EruditeHermit, Sure, if you're going to be there.
	[06:50] <EruditeHermit> most likely
	[06:50] <persia> If you aren't able to attend, please unregister, as it helps with planning space, etc.
	[06:50] <EruditeHermit> ok
	[06:59] <CarlFK> and food count :)
	[07:02] <calc> ugh fosscamp yet another thing that needs openid :)
	[07:10] <dholbach> good morning
	[07:12] <bryce> heya dholbach
	[07:13] <dholbach> hi bryce
	[07:20] <slangasek> morning
	[07:21] * Koon wonders if his morning is the same as slangasek's
	[07:21] <Koon> good morning :)
	[07:21] <Mithrandir> slangasek: you in london, or just very confused, tz-wise?
	[07:21] <slangasek> Mithrandir: "it's always morning somewhere"
	[07:22] <slangasek> I was replying to dholbach's greeting, really :)
	[07:22] <Treenaks> slangasek: it's always _Friday_ somewhere! :)
	[07:22] <slangasek> but: good morning, all!
	[07:22] * dholbach hugs slangasek
	[07:22] <slangasek> Treenaks: you're weird
	[07:22] <slangasek> :-)
	[07:22] <Treenaks> slangasek: thanks :)
	[07:24] <persia> Treenaks, It's only Friday about 29% of the time.
	[07:30] <Treenaks> persia: wait.. we're still only on one planet? :)
	[07:31] <persia> Treenaks, unfortunately. Please fix.
	[07:35] <\sh> hmmm
	[07:35] <\sh> dpkg: ../../src/packages.c:221: process_queue: Assertion `dependtry <= 4' failed.
	[07:35] <\sh> Aborted (core dumped)
	[07:35] <\sh> did anybody see this with latest apt-get failing for some reason and a dpkg --configure -a afterwards?
	[07:42] <Mirv> I wonder if anyone besides asac could put the simple i18n fix in at bug 286421? I'd just be hoping the menu item would have time to get translated for the release.
	[07:42] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 286421 in network-manager-applet "[8.10] nm-connection-editor menu item untranslatable" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286421
	[07:52] <lool> morning
	[07:55] <stgraber> hi lool
	[08:02] <dholbach> does anybody know how to change tags in Ogg Videos?
	[08:03] <slangasek> I think I change them with exfalso :)
	[08:04] <StevenK> Yay, exfalso
	[08:04] * dholbach tries it
	=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
	[08:10] <dholbach> exfalso did not work for me
	[08:10] <dholbach> I used python-mutagen
	[08:11] <slangasek> huh, ok
	[08:11] <slangasek> fwiw, exfalso depends on python-mutagen
	[08:12] <dholbach> Traceback (most recent call last):
	[08:12] <dholbach> File "/usr/share/quodlibet/formats/__init__.py", line 52, in MusicFile
	[08:12] <dholbach> return _infos[ext](filename)
	[08:12] <dholbach> File "/usr/share/quodlibet/formats/xiph.py", line 151, in info
	[08:12] <dholbach> raise IOError("file type could not be determined")
	[08:12] <dholbach> IOError: file type could not be determined
	[08:12] <dholbach> :)
	[08:12] <slangasek> neat
	[08:12] <dholbach> that was when I renamed the .ogv to .ogg (it would not show up when I used .ogv)
	[08:14] <lool> Theoritically you can do it in rhythmbox in the properties of a song, but it depends of installed plugins and open bugs :)
	[08:14] <lool> oh videos
	[08:14] <lool> Banshee supports videos, but dunno whether it allows editing their tags
	[08:15] <slangasek> oh, right, it was a video file; yeah, quodlibet was only ever written to handle audio
	[08:15] <dholbach> nevermind - mutagen saved the world again :)
	[08:15] <tjaalton> slangasek: is it possible to roll new images for the "unsupported" archs post-release?
	[08:16] <slangasek> tjaalton: generally, no. It's not impossible, but we're not going to want to spend a lot of time chasing fixes for archs that weren't ready at release time
	[08:17] <tjaalton> slangasek: ok, there's bug 281610 which only affects big-endian archs and is being debugged with upstream..
	[08:17] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 281610 in ubuntu-ps3-port "[regression, intrepid] Xorg servers broken "No core keyboard" and "failed to initialize core devices"" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281610
	[08:18] <tjaalton> slangasek: hopefully a fix is ready by the weekend
	[08:22] <lool> Are intrepid-updates open?
	[08:22] <slangasek> no
	[08:23] <seb128> slangasek: hi, what is the best way to put "to be synced on debian" updates on your list? I think doing a sync would bypass the queue
	[08:23] <seb128> slangasek: http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gstreamer0.10/news/20081022T071707Z.html for example
	[08:27] <dholbach> seb128: I just reviewed the vinagre and gnome-applets updates
	[08:27] <seb128> dholbach: thanks
	[08:27] <seb128> dholbach: reviewed or uploaded? ;-)
	[08:27] <dholbach> just so you do them as well :)
	[08:27] <dholbach> in the process of uploading
	[08:27] <seb128> dholbach: "don't", right? ;-)
	[08:27] <dholbach> doing ubuntu-docs now too
	[08:27] <dholbach> seb128: right :)
	[08:28] <seb128> dholbach: danke!
	[08:28] * seb128 hugs dholbach
	[08:30] <pitti> Good morning
	[08:30] <StevenK> Morning pitti
	[08:31] <seb128> hey pitti
	[08:31] <seb128> pitti: good catch on the f-spot issue ;-)
	[08:32] <slangasek> seb128: file bug, subscribe ubuntu-archive, tell StevenK not to accept it without me looking at it first? :)
	[08:32] <pitti> seb128: hey Seb
	[08:32] <pitti> seb128: I just asked the right questions :)
	[08:34] <pitti> seb128: ah, pity; seems that f-spot didn't make it for the current rebuild :(
	[08:34] <seb128> pitti: right it's in the queue
	[08:35] <pitti> but well, will be in final at least
	[08:35] <StevenK> slangasek: I've not done any accepts off my own bat.
	[08:35] <seb128> yet
	[08:35] <seb128> ;-)
	[08:35] <slangasek> heh
	[08:36] <seb128> slangasek: the desktop images are being rebuilt?
	[08:37] <slangasek> yes
	[08:37] <slangasek> they were meant to be done by now, but I'm stalled until IS can kill a hung livefs job for me
	[08:44] <cjwatson> lool: it's possible to upload to intrepid-proposed, but the upload will be held until intrepid is out
	[08:44] <lool> Ok; that's what I wanted to know, thanks
	[08:44] <cjwatson> slangasek: how long has that been stalled, and whom have you asked so far?
	[08:45] <pitti> lool: thanks for your libvisual/elisa uploads
	[08:46] <pitti> lool: I was a bit scared first, since libvisual changelog doesn't mention dropping jack, but component-mismatches doesn't mention jack any more
	[08:46] <lool> pitti: Did you expect me to write a formal MIR for libvisual-plugins, or are the comments on IRC enought to promote it?
	[08:46] <slangasek> cjwatson: noticed it was a problem ~1h ago, pinged IS on IRC and was working on other things; just about to ring elmo
	[08:46] <lool> pitti: libvisual changelog doesn't mention dropping jack? you mean the upstream changelog?
	[08:46] <pitti> lool: no wiki page, but a bug report would be good, together with your recommendation (you are ~ubuntu-mir now, too :) )
	[08:47] <pitti> lool: no, debian/changelog
	[08:47] <cjwatson> slangasek: ok, ringing or SMSing elmo sounds reasonable about now
	[08:47] <cjwatson> and is what I was going to suggest ;)
	[08:48] <lool> pitti: I did mention it in 0.4.0.dfsg.1-2ubuntu1!?
	[08:48] <lool> * Drop libjack0.100.0-dev bdep as even if it's detected correctly by the
	[08:48] <lool> upstream configure.ac, the list of input plugins to build is reset later
	[08:48] <lool> in this file. Incidentally, this allows promoting libvisual-plugins to
	[08:49] <lool> main in Ubuntu without promoting jack.
	[08:49] <lool> pitti: Will file bug
	[08:49] <pitti> lool: wasn't in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/intrepid-changes/2008-October/009191.html
	=== mvo_ is now known as mvo
	[08:52] <lool> pitti: I see; I uploaded ubuntu1, 2, and 3, but only 3 was accepted and saw you could only see the changes from -3
	[08:53] <lool> pitti: Full changes listed at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=503018#5
	[08:53] <ubottu> Debian bug 503018 in libvisual-plugins "watch file" [Wishlist,Open]
	[08:59] <lool> pitti: #287409
	[09:01] <lool> slangasek: I don't know how high #281610 is on your radar, but you should be made aware that it breaks Xorg for many ports (ppc, sparc, hppa at least); not sure how useful it is to release live RC images for these arches with this bug in place
	[09:02] <slangasek> yep, tjaalton brought it to my attention
	[09:03] <tjaalton> lool: it's updated, I'll fire up my PS3 tonight and try to debug it unless Dan beats me to it
	[09:03] <slangasek> I think we'll probably skip releasing RC images for the ports because of that bug, they don't get formal testing on our test matrix anyway
	[09:03] <lool> tjaalton: I think RC is tomorrow AIUI
	[09:04] <slangasek> so we either will or won't get testing feedback from the dailies
	[09:04] <tjaalton> lool: it is, so it won't make it to RC
	[09:06] <seb128> mvo: bug #273930 is the oosplash bug I was speaking about before
	[09:06] <ubottu> Bug 273930 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/273930 is private
	[09:07] <pitti> seb128: hm, opening the intrepid iso with "archive mounter" isn't happy; it just hangs nautilus
	[09:09] <seb128> pitti: stacktrace?
	[09:10] <seb128> oh oh, just crashes nautilus trying on the hardy iso
	[09:10] <pitti> does CD image writing work through nautilus-cd-burner for anyone else? for me it just immediately says "error writing to the device"; direct cdrecord works fine
	[09:10] <seb128> pitti: I did burn isos this way yesterday, didn't try yet today
	[09:10] <pitti> seb128: shouldn't have changed
	[09:10] <seb128> pitti: is that on the livecd or on an installed system?
	[09:11] <pitti> seb128: installed system
	[09:11] <pitti> oh
	[09:11] <seb128> pitti: gconf-editor, apps, nautilus-cd-burner, enable debug and run nautilus-cd-burner --source-iso=iso on a command line?
	[09:11] <pitti> seb128: I used a very old medium which just can do 4x speed
	[09:11] <pitti> seb128: and I selected 11x in n-c-b
	[09:11] <pitti> that might be it
	[09:12] <pitti> seb128: will do that for the next image I'll burn, thank you!
	[09:12] <pitti> oh, burnproof is disabled by default
	[09:13] <seb128> pitti: no it's not
	[09:14] <seb128> pitti: nautilus-cd-burner automatically does burnproof when recording non audio cds, the key is there to force the behaviour for other the library and on audio cds
	[09:14] <pitti> ah
	[09:14] <seb128> pitti: <pitti> seb128: hm, opening the intrepid iso with "archive mounter" isn't happy; it just hangs nautilus
	[09:15] <seb128> pitti: are you sure it didn't crash rather?
	[09:15] <seb128> pitti: ie, got stucked while apport was working
	[09:15] <pitti> seb128: I do have a crash report, /me looks at it
	[09:15] <seb128> pitti: it's likely http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=547468
	[09:16] <ubottu> Gnome bug 547468 in GIO "crash in Home Folder:" [Critical,New]
	[09:16] <seb128> pitti: or bug #259343
	[09:16] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 259343 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_str_hash(), mounting ISO" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259343
	[09:16] <smurf> pitti: bug #283316 is not a problem with opening the CDROM
	[09:16] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 283316 in linux "opening /dev/scd0 causes tray to be closed" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283316
	[09:16] <smurf> opening with O_NDELAY set doesn't close tray; AFAIK that's what HAL does for all devices
	[09:17] <pitti> smurf: oh, thanks for pointing out; I'll do that in my test script
	[09:18] <pitti> seb128: I filed it as bug 287419
	[09:19] <ubottu> Bug 287419 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/287419 is private
	[09:19] <pitti> seb128: unusable stack trace, I'll wait for the retracer and then compare
	[09:21] <seb128> pitti: what arch do you use?
	[09:24] <pitti> seb128: i386
	[09:24] <seb128> pitti: ok
	[09:34] <smurf> pitti: I have restored the original bug titles
	[09:34] <pitti> smurf: I'm debugging it further now; with O_NONBLOCK and the ioctl it doesn't open either
	[09:34] <pitti> smurf: I build a debuggin hal version now and gdb through the addon
	[09:37] <smurf> pitti: Maybe the ioctl closes the tray when some other process opened it without O_NDELAY afterwards?
	[09:37] <smurf> pitti: anyway you mean s/open/close ;-)
	=== mdz_ is now known as mdz
	[09:46] <slangasek> mvo: hi, could you mark feisty obsolete in meta-release please?
	[09:52] <mvo> slangasek: sure, will do
	[10:06] <yao_ziyuan1> i lost chinese input on gnome and kde4 deskotps yesterday
	[10:07] <yao_ziyuan1> i use ubuntu 8.10 + kde4
	[10:09] <realist> How not to report a bug.
	[10:13] <Hobbsee> realist: we keep telling him that, and he never learns.
	[10:15] <jdahlin> libtool 2.2.4 on intrepid breaks quite a bit of software, is there a plan to downgrade, or at least provide 1.5 packages?
	[10:16] <StevenK> Such as?
	[10:17] <jdahlin> afaik gnome libraries (glib for instance)
	[10:18] <StevenK> libglib2.0 in the archive built with it
	[10:19] <seb128> jdahlin: talk to Keybuk, but what about fixing upstream to be compatible with the current tools?
	[10:19] <jdahlin> well, glib itself parses .la files, these parts are no longer working properly
	[10:19] <slangasek> eh? why does glib parse .la files?
	[10:20] <jdahlin> g_module_open is a dlopen wrapper, it's useful for it to work without having to install libraries
	[10:20] <Keybuk> so glib hasn't been updated?
	[10:21] <jdahlin> apparently not
	[10:21] <Keybuk> someone should do that ;)
	[10:21] <slangasek> sigh. if it's useful for it to work without having to install libraries, why is it wrapping dlopen instead of libltdl? :(
	[10:21] <Keybuk> slangasek: indeed
	[10:21] <jdahlin> Keybuk, do you have an idea why shrext_cmd in libtool --config is set to an empty string?
	[10:22] <jdahlin> *shrext_cmds
	[10:22] <Keybuk> it isn't
	[10:22] <Keybuk> # Shared library suffix (normally ".so").
	[10:22] <Keybuk> shrext_cmds=".so"
	[10:22] <jdahlin> it is on the copy of libtool in my source tree
	[10:22] <Keybuk> libtoolize issue?
	[10:22] <jdahlin> no idea
	[10:23] <Keybuk> gnome's autogen has a bug where it manages to get it utterly wrong
	[10:23] <jdahlin> oh?
	[10:23] <Keybuk> assumedly "they wanted it to work without having to use the perfectly good tool already available to do it"
	[10:23] <Keybuk> run "autoreconf -v -i -f" on your tree
	[10:23] <Keybuk> and configure again
	[10:24] <slangasek> Keybuk: pssh, now you're making them sound like Qt
	[10:24] <jdahlin> Keybuk, doesn't change anything.
	[10:25] <jdahlin> Oh, perhaps this is only because I haven't removed all *.la files on my system yet
	[10:25] <Keybuk> jdahlin: you don't need to remove .la files
	[10:25] <jdahlin> Keybuk, I do, they tend to break builds
	[10:26] <Keybuk> no, they don't
	[10:26] <Keybuk> they fail because the build is wrong
	[10:26] <Keybuk> but most people disagree that it's wron
	[10:26] <Keybuk> on Linux, libtool replicates a build failure that happens on things like Solaris
	[10:26] <Keybuk> so people remove .la files blindly believing it to be stupid
	[10:26] <jdahlin> I don't care about Solaris
	[10:27] <jdahlin> If someone wants to port my software to other OS, it's up to them to fix it, not me
	[10:27] <Keybuk> your package is likely failing because you have mixed pieces of both libtool 2.2 and libtool 1.5 in your source tree
	[10:27] <slangasek> I remove them with my eyes open, believing that replicating Solaris build failures is stupid
	[10:27] <slangasek> :P
	[10:27] <Keybuk> slangasek: but you cause build failures with static libraries as a result :-/
	[10:27] <Keybuk> pkg-config does alleviate this pain of course
	[10:28] <jdahlin> who cares about static libraries?
	[10:28] <slangasek> ^^ what he said :-)
	[10:28] <Keybuk> slangasek: we stills ship them :)
	[10:28] <pitti> smurf: bugs updated again (primary discussion now in the upstream bug)
	=== Nightr4ven is now known as Nightaven
	=== Nightaven is now known as Nightraven
	[10:36] <smurf> pitti: thanks, that looks like it's going to be some work to figure out
	[10:37] <pitti> smurf: yeah :/
	[10:38] <smurf> pitti: if you need a fast machine for bisecting the kernel, I can probably help
	[10:38] <smurf> I can't do it myself, right now I only have one computer in the office and I need that for actual paying work :-/
	[10:39] <pitti> smurf: I need to find some time to do the same test case on earlier kernels, indeed
	[10:39] <pitti> but probably not this week, too much release stuff going on
	[10:40] <pitti> smurf: but building my stripped down monolithic kernel takes like 5 minutes, that's not a problem
	[10:40] <pitti> downloading them takes more :)
	[10:41] <mok0> Is there a tutorial for using LP for packaging somewhere?
	[10:42] <mok0> (including managing upstream sources)
	[10:47] <pitti> seb128: hm, n-c-b works now; seems to have been a /dev/scd0 permission glitch
	[10:48] <doko> after kernel upgrade my X61 doesn't boot anymore, hangs in "Checking battery state ..:"
	[10:49] <heno> eeek
	=== asac__ is now known as asac
	[10:51] <heno> doko: anything here that looks suspicious: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/285779/comments/4 ?
	[10:51] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 285779 in linux "XFS Barrier support broken in 2.6.27" [High,Fix released]
	[10:51] <doko> my, works after a power off
	[10:56] <heno> * new RC-candidate ISO images posted with updated kernel - please help test! *
	[10:57] <pitti> heno: hm, still 20081022, or even newer ones/
	[10:57] <pitti> ?
	[10:57] <pitti> I just finished burning
	[10:57] <slangasek> Riddell: request for https://wiki.kubuntu.org/IntrepidIbex/RC/Kubuntu for me to link from the announcement
	[10:57] <slangasek> pitti: those are the ones
	[10:57] <heno> * image links and reporting on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com - coordination in #ubuntu-testing *
	[10:57] <slangasek> cody-somerville: request for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/RC/Xubuntu for me to link from the announcement mail
	[10:58] <Riddell> slangasek: will do
	[10:58] <slangasek> superm1: request for http://mythbuntu.org/8.10/rc for me to link from the announcement mail :)
	[10:58] <heno> pitti: the last desktop ones are just trickling in
	[10:58] <heno> 20081022
	[10:59] <heno> pitti: the message wasn't really targeted at people like you who are ahead of the game ;)
	[10:59] <pitti> heh, phew
	[11:05] <cody-somerville> slangasek, preparing
	[11:08] <tseliot> slangasek: is it better now? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseNotes#nVidia%20%22legacy%22%20video%20support
	[11:10] <cody-somerville> slangasek, is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/RC/Xubuntu suppose to be release notes or release announcement?
	[11:11] <cody-somerville> or I guess what you're now calling "TechnicalOverview"
	[11:11] <slangasek> cody-somerville: whatever you want me to link to from the ubuntu-announce release announcement; it would parallel the TechnicalOverview, yes
	[11:12] <slangasek> tseliot: looking
	[11:12] <smurf> pitti: Hmm, I'm afraid that when this problem seriously shreds somebody's CD (or finger), this bug is going to be RC in a hurry. :-/ I hope that I can dig up some free time myself this week, but no promises unfortunately
	[11:13] <pitti> smurf: at the very least it will become an early SRU, yes
	[11:13] <slangasek> tseliot: hmm, linking to wikipedia - I'll have to clear that with the webmaster, but it looks better to me, yes :)
	[11:14] <tseliot> slangasek: yes, I thought that if users want further information they could look up SSE on wikipedia
	[11:15] <pitti> on mounting kvm images> losetup /dev/loop0 test.img works fine, and fdisk -l /dev/loop0 shows me partitions; is there any way I can actually get things like /dev/loop0p1 to get to the partitions?
	[11:15] <pitti> kirkland: ^ maybe you know?
	[11:15] <wgrant> slangasek: Is somebody going to fix the "GNOME Logout Applet" section in the release notes soon?
	[11:16] <slangasek> tseliot: what does update-manager do if the CPU /doesn't/ support SSE? Refuse to upgrade? Migrate them to nv?
	[11:17] <slangasek> wgrant: release-noting is definitely on my agenda for the morning
	[11:17] <tseliot> slangasek: it should display a warning about the fact that the nvidia driver won't work and, if users accept to proceed with the installation, Update Manager will use the "nv" driver
	[11:17] <wgrant> slangasek: Just checking that it hadn't been somehow overlooked, as other parts have changed.
	[11:19] <slangasek> tseliot: I've adjusted the section now in a way that I think is more logical; does it look ok to you still?
	[11:20] <tseliot> slangasek: it looks good to me
	[11:22] <slangasek> tseliot: great, thanks
	[11:22] <tseliot> you're welcome
	[11:40] <slangasek> ogra: I've opened a release notes task for bug #282203; you talked about having users provide feedback to help generate correct fdi files for jaunty - could you write a brief explanation of this for release notes inclusion, possibly with a pointer to the wiki for more detail?
	[11:40] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 282203 in wacom-tools "Wacom tablet hotplug is no longer enabled by default" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282203
	[11:41] <Keybuk> evand: aiiieeee make the timezone selector STOP!!! arrrrgh
	[11:41] <ogra> slangasek, will do, i was also planning a howto for creating your own .fdi files but that howto wont happen this week
	[11:41] <slangasek> ogra: understandable - we shouldn't include the whole howto in the release notes anyway :), but maybe that's part of what we link to
	[11:42] <ogra> right
	[11:42] <slangasek> Keybuk: I thought he did make it stop?
	[11:42] <ogra> i would like to provide a link there
	[11:42] <Keybuk> there should be a secret key combination in the live cd X server that displays the disk info on screen
	[11:43] <slangasek> ogra: assigned the task to you; if you can't get to it today, kick it back to me and I'll put in a placeholder for RC
	[11:43] <ogra> ok
	[12:01] <tseliot> Riddell: do you know of any kde apps which have to be launched with root privileges (apart from jockey)?
	[12:02] <pitti> StevenK: can you give me a list of the main->universe source/binary demotions which you'd want to keep in main for mobile? http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
	[12:04] <StevenK> pitti: hildon-control-panel, libfakekey, libhildonhelp, libxsettings, maemo-af-desktop, matchbox-keyboard, midbrowser, osso-af-settings, python-hildon and tasks
	[12:04] <Riddell> tseliot: adept
	[12:05] <pitti> StevenK: libxsettings is only needed by libmatchbox and matchbox-window-manager, both of which are in universe
	[12:05] <tseliot> Riddell: but doesn't that acquire root privileges after it's launched?
	[12:05] <StevenK> pitti: Then drop it from that list
	[12:05] <Riddell> tseliot: the whole app runs as root
	[12:06] <liw> er, um: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-cleaner/+bug/287225 -- "Uses Windows conventions for file types". of all the things I imagined people would complain about system-cleaner, that was not one of them
	[12:06] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 287225 in system-cleaner "Uses Windows conventions for file types" [Undecided,New]
	[12:06] <tseliot> Riddell: hmm... ok maybe I confused it with the system updater
	[12:08] <pitti> StevenK: thanks; I demoted the rest
	[12:09] <Riddell> tseliot: /usr/share/applications/kde4/adept-manager.desktop
	[12:09] <pitti> Riddell: demoting arts binary to universe is okay? kdelibs4c2a still depends on the library, but nothing pulls in arts any more
	[12:10] <Riddell> tseliot: which has X-KDE-SubstituteUID=true
	[12:10] <pitti> Riddell: or should it be seeded?
	[12:11] <Riddell> pitti: hmm
	[12:11] <Riddell> pitti: arts package itself is empty, I can put it in supported
	[12:11] <tseliot> Riddell: yes, I tried "X-KDE-SubstituteUID=true" but it doesn't seem to help with jockey. I have noticed that we jockey is launched by autostart and its icon shows up in the system tray I can click on that icon and jockey works well
	[12:12] <pitti> Riddell: hm, it doesn't look that useful; well, your call
	[12:12] <Riddell> tseliot: that's because pitti made it run through /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kdesu
	[12:12] <pitti> tseliot, Riddell: but that's not due to the desktop file
	[12:13] <pitti> if you want to run it as root right from the start, I assume you have to add kdesudo to the Exec= in the .desktop? or should X-KDE-Subst be enough?
	[12:13] <Riddell> right from the start being when you start it from the applications menu?
	[12:13] <Riddell> X-KDE-SubstituteUID=true should do that
	[12:15] <tseliot> Riddell: where is the script/or source of the daemon which launches all the scripts in autostart in kde?
	[12:16] <Riddell> tseliot: what are you wanting to autostart?
	[12:16] <Riddell> I think it's ksmserver which does the autostart stuff
	[12:16] <tseliot> Riddell: I would like to know whether the autostarter has root privileges or not
	[12:17] <Riddell> it doesn't
	[12:17] <tseliot> as calling jockey with kdesu doesn't seem to solve the problem
	[12:17] <tseliot> hmm...
	[12:18] <Riddell> mvo: incomplete-language-support-qt.note seems broken, is that on the radar?
	[12:18] <james_w> could an archive admin please reject gambas2 from unapproved? The amd64 build is being done for the existing package on the LP side.
	[12:18] <mvo> Riddell: could you make me a screenshot?
	[12:18] <slangasek> james_w: done
	[12:18] <james_w> thanks slangasek
	[12:19] <pitti> james_w: done
	[12:19] <pitti> oh
	[12:19] <slangasek> :)
	[12:19] <james_w> nice try pitti :-)
	[12:19] <pitti> "FAILED: gambas2 (Queue item already rejected)"
	[12:19] <pitti> heh
	[12:19] <pitti> "FAILED: You are too slow!"
	[12:20] <tseliot> Riddell, pitti: problem solved :-)
	[12:21] <Riddell> tseliot: ooh?
	[12:21] <tseliot> Riddell, pitti: I only had to add TryExec=jockey-kde to the desktop file (in addition to X-KDE-SubstituteUID=true)
	[12:21] <pitti> oh, what does that do?
	[12:21] <tseliot> it doesn't work without the TryExec
	[12:21] <Riddell> aah
	[12:22] <Riddell> pitti: makes it work :)
	[12:22] <mvo> Riddell: cjwatson fixed some breakage in the note the other day
	[12:22] <tseliot> Riddell: yes, definitely :-P
	[12:22] <Riddell> mvo: all the translations are on one line
	[12:22] <tseliot> pitti: shall I commit/push this change?
	[12:22] <pitti> tseliot: please
	[12:22] <pitti> tseliot: (to trunk)
	[12:23] <pitti> tseliot: also, there is still the "jockey-kde doesn't install wl" issue, right?
	[12:23] <cjwatson> Riddell: that should be fixed if you upgrade ...?
	[12:23] <cjwatson> I'm pretty sure I fixed incomplete-language-support-qt.note as well
	[12:23] <tseliot> pitti: I'll test that too
	[12:23] <cjwatson> $ deb-extract-file /mirror/ubuntu/pool/main/l/language-selector/language-selector-qt_0.3.15_all.deb ./usr/share/language-support/incomplete-language-support-qt.note \| grep ^Name \| head -n3
	[12:23] <cjwatson> Name: Incomplete Language Support
	[12:23] <cjwatson> Name-ast.UTF-8: Sofitu a llingua incompletu
	[12:24] <cjwatson> Name-ca.UTF-8: Suport d'idioma incomplet
	[12:24] <Riddell> cjwatson: yep, that sorts it, thanks
	[12:25] <cjwatson> it's still an intltool/intltool-debian bug but I haven't had time to file that
	[12:26] <mvo> cjwatson: I can reproduce the language-selector problem you mentioned, its indeed because the package list is not updated. I can add code that detcts that and presents a dialog, but it will break the string freeze
	[12:26] <cody-somerville> slangasek, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/RC/Xubuntu
	[12:27] <slangasek> cody-somerville: looks good to me: )
	[12:28] <cjwatson> mvo: maybe that's worth it given that the change is for improved translation in general
	[12:29] <mvo> cjwatson: fine with me, I work on the code then
	[12:29] <cjwatson> thanks
	[12:31] <ogra> hmm, is seb128 off today ?
	[12:32] <ogra> heh, speaking of the devil
	[12:32] <ogra> seb128, hey ... i have a slight themeing prob with the shutdown dialog
	[12:32] <mvo> Riddell: what do you thiink about a session at uds about langauge-selector ? like making the delta between the fontends smaller (e.g. verifyInstalledLangPacks should really be in common code) - we oculd also discuss a dbus/PK infrastrure, I have some code that make it all nicer with dbus
	[12:33] <Riddell> mvo: sounds good
	[12:33] <seb128> ogra: is that me that you call devil? that's an error ;-)
	[12:33] <ogra> seb128, is that the original upstream one or do we use any patches for the suspend and hibernate items ?
	[12:33] <ogra> seb128, we all know youre an angel :)
	[12:33] <seb128> ah ah, not quite either ;-)
	[12:33] <seb128> anyway
	[12:33] <seb128> ogra: I guess bug #274889 is your issue
	[12:33] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 274889 in gnome-session "the new session dialog should use other icon names" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274889
	[12:34] <ogra> seems if i use the gnome icon theme (which we do in mobile because human doesnt scale properly on the panel) i end up with the missing icon for suspend
	[12:34] * ogra reads
	[12:35] <ogra> seb128, yeah, looks like it
	[12:36] <seb128> ogra: ok, it's late to change the naming now for intrepid though and there is no better suggestion
	[12:36] <seb128> ogra: vuntz added the icon they are using in opensuse to the upstream bug, that could be shipped in gnome-session or something though
	[12:37] <ogra> that would be good
	[12:37] <ogra> else i could ship a link to the gpm icon in ubuntu-mobile-default-settings but that would only be an ugly workaround
	[12:39] <pitti> cjwatson: I uploaded a new mail-spf-perl which gets rid of three more perl modules in c-m; all the remaining ones are just due to the po-debconf recommends; unfortunately its failure mode isn't very good; if I'd fix that to say "You need to install libmail-box-perl for this program to work", would you consider that as sufficient?
	[12:39] <cjwatson> pitti: I thought it already did
	[12:39] <cjwatson> die "The --postpone and --mutt options require the ".
	[12:39] <cjwatson> "perl Mail::Box package. Please install the Debian ".
	[12:39] <cjwatson> "libmail-box-perl package if you want to use these ".
	[12:39] <cjwatson> "options. No mail written or sent.";
	[12:39] <pitti> ah
	=== thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak
	[12:39] <pitti> if you just call it, it says "Can't locate Mail/Box/Manager.pm in @INC"
	[12:40] <cjwatson> weird
	[12:40] <pitti> cjwatson: where do you see that?
	[12:40] <cjwatson> podebconf-report-po line 1160
	[12:40] <pitti> cjwatson: --help aborts with that perl error, and it's not in the manpage
	[12:41] <cjwatson> oh, meh, that 'use' is wrong
	[12:42] <pitti> does the eval {require} already import it?
	[12:42] <cjwatson> use Mail::Box::Manager => import Mail::Box::Manager, I suspect
	[12:43] <cjwatson> use compiles to BEGIN { require; import } basically
	[12:43] <cjwatson> and it's not wrapped in eval or anything so that bypasses the conditional
	[12:45] * pitti tests
	[12:47] <pitti> cjwatson: that works for the uninstalled case, but I still get lots of errors
	[12:47] <pitti> cjwatson: anyway, I'll look at that further, thanks
	[12:48] <pitti> ah, touching the folder helps, works now
	[12:49] <pitti> cjwatson: ok, I'll send that fix to Debian and upload with the recommends dropped
	[12:49] <cjwatson> cool, thanks
	[12:52] <james_w> "Please use the interactive user interface to use action edit!"
	[12:54] <Hobbsee> tseliot: not sure if anyone's talked to you over this, but have you seen 228649 and 239115?
	[12:55] <tseliot> Hobbsee: let me have a look
	[12:55] <Hobbsee> tseliot: if they're not valid anymore, etc, please mark them as such :) Thanks
	[12:57] <tseliot> Hobbsee: I've marked them as invalid since those packages are no longer available in intrepid
	[12:58] <Hobbsee> tseliot: sweet, thankyou :)
	[12:58] <tseliot> Hobbsee: you're welcome ;)
	[12:59] * Hobbsee wonders if anything happened about nvidia 96 drivers, and such
	[13:06] <mvo> cjwatson: hm, on a fresh alternate install (without network) the "deb cdrom:" source is commented out - have you seen this before?
	[13:08] <cjwatson> mvo: that's odd, I'll try it after lunch
	[13:08] <cjwatson> mvo: oh, hang on, no, that's deliberate
	[13:09] <mvo> cjwatson: I'm curious, why is it done that way?
	[13:09] <cjwatson> * Always disable the CD at the end of installation if no mirrors are
	[13:09] <cjwatson> present, even if it's a complete CD. These days it's more irritating
	[13:09] <cjwatson> than not, and inserting the CD on a desktop system will produce a prompt
	[13:09] <cjwatson> anyway.
	[13:09] <cjwatson> apt-setup 1:0.31ubuntu1
	[13:09] <mvo> aha, ok
	[13:09] <cjwatson> that should actually have read "if any mirrors are present", I think
	[13:12] <wgrant> Oh, good. That has been annoying me for years.
	=== davmor2 is now known as davmor2_lunch
	[13:16] * pitti reads server team meeting notes and hugs frozen bubble
	[13:17] * mathiaz points pitti to zul - he started everything!
	[13:18] <james_w> do you install frozen bubble by default on server installs?
	[13:18] <pitti> mathiaz: anyway, does it have a libaa backend for ssh ?
	[13:18] <mathiaz> james_w: yes - but shussh... it's an easter egg
	[13:18] <liw> pitti, if you ask me, Frozen Bubble should be removed from Ubuntu, and all developers should be required to run a kernel that prevents it from becoming installed
	[13:19] <Treenaks> liw: what about moon-buggy?
	[13:19] <liw> pitti, it's too addictive...
	[13:19] <pitti> liw: then you need to remove dosbox, too
	=== pgraner_ is now known as pgraner
	[13:21] <zul> frozen bubble is just too addictive and must be removed
	[13:21] <pitti> heno, all: Ubuntu DVD RC images now available and added to the tracker
	[13:21] * pitti stomps on zul's feet
	[13:21] <sivang> pitti: frozen bubble in server team meeting notes? :)
	[13:22] <heno> zul: I'll trade it for the expert install I'm just starting ;)
	[13:22] * zul goes file a launchpad report
	[13:22] <heno> pitti: thanks
	[13:23] <qah> Hello. Is anyone there?
	[13:23] <qah> Oh. I think I have the wrong chat anyways. :)
	=== davmor2_lunch is now known as davmor2
	[13:45] <Hobbsee> liw: why does system-cleaner install with no icon?
	[13:45] <liw> Hobbsee, because nobody has made an icon
	[13:45] <Hobbsee> liw: oh :(
	[13:45] <Hobbsee> liw: tried emailing the ubuntu-artwork list or something asking someone to make one?
	[13:46] <liw> Hobbsee, yes
	[13:46] <Hobbsee> oh
	[13:46] <Hobbsee> no dice, apparently.
	[13:46] <cody-somerville> Hobbsee, just open up gimp :P
	[13:46] <liw> (I don't intend to spend a lot of effort on an icon that I don't think is in any way important, though)
	[13:47] <Hobbsee> liw: tha't strue. it might just be ncie to have.
	[13:47] <Hobbsee> cody-somerville: i suck at graphics...
	[13:47] <liw> Hobbsee, on the other hand, people asking me about the icon about a dozen times a day is becoming to motivate me
	[13:47] <Hobbsee> liw: hehe, sorry :)
	[13:48] <liw> Hobbsee, for whatever reason, people care less about having all their kernels removed than about the icon ;-)
	[13:48] <Hobbsee> haha
	[13:48] <Hobbsee> that's true
	[13:52] <directhex> kernels are overrated. art is all about first impressions!
	[13:55] <broonie> If you make their system unbootable they won't eb able to get online to complain.
	[13:55] <liw> broonie, they will just use a live cd
	[13:56] <liw> broonie, to file a bug that THERE WAS NO ICON for removing kernels, obviously :)
	[13:56] <liw> more seriously, I hope to have _something_ as an icon for the next upload
	[13:56] <liw> also, not removing quite so many kernels
	[14:01] <Hobbsee> liw: attempting to poke around
	[14:12] <Mirv> cjwatson: I don't know if you tested the fix for bug 287046, but while it does include all the translations besides fixing the original problem, the translations aren't actually shown because of some probably small glitch. installed from today's daily which has 0.3.15.
	[14:12] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 287046 in language-selector "interactive upgrade hooks description shows all translations" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287046
	[14:13] <Mirv> (s/tested/tested in non-English/)
	[14:21] <jdong> there's a debdiff and about 5 whiny people on bug 274844... release folks, is there an opportunity to fix this before release or shall we wait for SRU?
	[14:21] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 274844 in transmission "transmission crashed with SIGSEGV in g_markup_escape_text()" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274844
	[14:21] <jdong> (the patch looks slightly hairy, it's a minor rewrite of a tooltip-popping routine)
	[14:34] <bluefoxicy> Here's a thought
	[14:34] <bluefoxicy> When Ubuntu goes into official beta, most packages are stable, right?
	[14:34] <bluefoxicy> i.e. not much is realistically going to change by release (in 8 days)
	[14:35] <Hobbsee> RC, you mean?
	[14:35] <Hobbsee> and we hope not
	[14:35] <bluefoxicy> how about update-manager having a setting to fetch information about an upcoming release, and X days before release begin downloading the packages
	[14:35] <pitti> -- intrepid/main build deps on xscreensaver:
	[14:35] <cjwatson> Mirv: I wasn't able to test it all the way through, no
	[14:35] <pitti> kdeartwork
	[14:35] <pitti> o_O
	[14:35] <cjwatson> Mirv: sounds like a new bug though
	[14:35] <bluefoxicy> that way on release day it can say, "Hey! New version! :D Want to install?" YES and no download
	[14:36] <mvo> cjwatson: a first draft for the language-selector text: http://paste.ubuntu.com/60994/ - review welcome :)
	[14:36] <cjwatson> Mirv: I'm reasonably confident that the actual .note file in language-selector is in the right format now
	[14:36] <Hobbsee> pitti: what about it?
	[14:36] <cjwatson> bluefoxicy: an absolute buttload changes between beta and release
	[14:36] <bluefoxicy> (Possibly this is better if there's bittorrent based package distribution)
	[14:36] <cjwatson> look at intrepid-changes ...
	[14:36] <bluefoxicy> cjwatson: hm. Nods. So not so great?
	[14:36] <cjwatson> mvo: looks fine
	[14:36] <pitti> Hobbsee: it's the only thing that keeps xscreensaver in main, and it doesn't sound like something a package wouldneed to buid-depend on
	[14:37] <Hobbsee> pitti: ahhh. Now, iirc, there was a reason for that.
	[14:37] <cjwatson> bluefoxicy: RC->release not so much changes, but even then it gets a new set of language packs
	[14:37] <pitti> Hobbsee: if we keep it, we also need to promote xli, or drop its recommend:
	[14:37] <cjwatson> bluefoxicy: so I'm a bit sceptical - I'm also concerned that it would ramp up server load right when it's most critical for us to get urgent work done
	[14:38] <bluefoxicy> cjwatson: Yeah, I'm worried about server load, hence the bittorrent comment. I'm just thinking about last time I upgraded.
	[14:38] <bluefoxicy> it spent 2 days downloading packages.
	[14:38] <cjwatson> bittorrent has not exactly been what you might call an unalloyed success on the server side
	[14:38] <Hobbsee> pitti: from vague memory, i think there are no, or very few screensavers, if it's not there. OTOH, it's not used a lot, as it's not part of kubuntu-desktop.
	[14:38] <cjwatson> the tracker is absolutely horrible to run and it gets worse the more files are involved
	[14:38] <bluefoxicy> damn
	[14:39] <cjwatson> I realise it's good client-side which is why we keep running it
	[14:39] <bluefoxicy> didn't someone develop trackerless bittorrent?
	[14:39] <cjwatson> dunno
	[14:39] <bluefoxicy> there was a big deal made about how they "decentralized" bittorrent
	[14:39] <bluefoxicy> in a special fork
	[14:39] <Hobbsee> pitti: check in #kubuntu-devel though, i'm not sure if it's changed for kde4
	[14:39] <bluefoxicy> and then it went nowhere
	[14:39] <Riddell> pitti: kdeartwork needs to build-dep on xscreensavers so it knows what screensavers exist, it then creates .desktop files for those screensavers so kde can use xscreensavers through its settings
	[14:39] <Hobbsee> there we go
	[14:40] <pitti> Riddell: ah, thanks
	[14:41] <tseliot> Riddell: can you modify the .desktop file of jockey-kde according to what is in the diff (only the lines in green) and see if you can reproduce the problem with the wirless driver? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jockey-hackers/jockey/trunk/revision/496
	[14:41] <Trewas> bluefoxicy: there's trackerless bittorrent (with two variants even, mainline and azureus)... but no matter how you look at it, bittorrent sucks for distributing lots of small files
	[14:41] <Riddell> tseliot: ok, once this upgrade test is done
	[14:41] <tseliot> ok, thanks
	[14:42] <bluefoxicy> Trewas: interesting. My big problem with bittorrent is you can't alter the torrent, i.e. you can't add/remove files to/from it at leisure and have clients update
	[14:42] <pitti> Riddell: my suspicion is that kdesudo kills $XDG_SESSION_COOKIE from the environment, or something like that, which apparently doesn't happen if the .desktop file starts it as root
	[14:43] <Riddell> pitti: what is that needed for?
	[14:43] * bluefoxicy sets his computer to install the new beta; he runs -proposed, he might as well run an 8-days-from-release candidate.
	[14:43] <mvo> pitti: dosn't sudo do that (clean the environment from everything it does not know about) - or is that key added to the exceptions?
	[14:43] <pitti> Riddell: usually it's the session program's cookie to get PolicyKit privileges f
	[14:44] <pitti> Riddell: I don't really see why you'd need it if the program is already running as root
	[14:44] <Mirv> cjwatson: ok, created a new bug for language-selector (bug 287556)
	[14:44] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 287556 in language-selector "Post-installation note translations not shown" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287556
	[14:44] <pitti> Riddell: but maybe PK/CK insist on it, and I don't really see what other difference kdesudo could make
	[14:45] <pitti> mvo: no, it kills it as well
	[14:45] <pitti> mvo: but on Ubuntu we have policykit-gnome, so we don't need to run it as root in the first place
	[14:45] <pitti> so far it's really just one possible explanation
	[14:49] <mvo> cjwatson: I have a look at #287556 next, I'm hacking on l-s anyway right now
	[14:49] <cjwatson> ok
	[14:49] <cjwatson> I sort of suspect it's in update-notifier rather than language-selector but ICBW
	[14:50] <mvo> cjwatson: I kind of suspect that too, but I will double check
	[14:50] <mvo> hm, I wonder why the "details" expander in language-selector is expanded by default
	[14:52] <Mirv> mvo: probably a bug, too. it makes the actual list height very small.
	[14:53] <dholbach> mathiaz: haha :)
	[14:53] <\sh> cjwatson: did you see the behaviour, that the linux-image post-install wants to write the UUID of / into menu.lst instead of /boot UID? I did a reinstall of my system this morning with the latest beta alternate image, and it was unbootable
	[14:53] <dholbach> (re: server team minutes) :)
	[14:53] <cjwatson> \sh: yes, it's fixed
	[14:53] <\sh> cjwatson: cool
	[14:54] <pitti> Kubuntu DVD images available on cdimage and ISO tracker
	[14:54] <cjwatson> \sh: bug 285269
	[14:54] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 285269 in grub "UUID conversion fails to handle separate /boot" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285269
	[14:55] <mvo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/ls.png
	[14:55] <cjwatson> excellent
	[14:56] <Mirv> mvo: are you that quick?! :)
	[14:56] <\sh> dholbach: at least the hadn't achmed, the dead terrorist in da house...he would have said: "Silence, I'll kill you"..."if you remove bubble" ,-)
	[14:57] <liw> Mirv, yes, he is
	[14:57] <stgraber> mvo: liw told me you could know about: http://www.stgraber.org/download/langpack-notify.png ?
	[14:57] <dholbach> \sh: eh?
	[14:57] <mvo> Mirv: actually I had a debug a crash in python-apt first, otherwise I would have been even quicker .)
	[14:57] <\sh> dholbach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go <- don't you know him? :) great show
	[14:57] <dholbach> no, I guess not
	[14:58] <mvo> stgraber: what version of language-selector is that? could you please check?
	[14:58] <\sh> dholbach: have a look and rotfl. :)
	[14:58] <mvo> Mirv: now I just need to find the bugnumber again :)
	[14:58] <Mirv> mvo: while you are at it, you could possibly even squash also the second part of the bug - ie. it does not check whether support for Default Language is actually installed (second part of bug 135752, first one being this apt-get update)
	[14:58] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 135752 in ubiquity "language packs are not installed if network is not available during install" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135752
	[14:59] <Mirv> mvo: well, that's the original bug I just made the other bug duplicate about
	[14:59] <stgraber> mvo: it's today's desktop image, hang on a sec
	[14:59] <stgraber> mvo: 0.3.15
	[15:00] <mvo> stgraber: oh, bad. that was supposed to be fixed
	[15:00] <mvo> oh well
	[15:00] <cjwatson> stgraber: blink
	[15:00] <cjwatson> I fixed that in 0.3.15, I'm sure it's fixed in the archive
	[15:00] <Mirv> stgraber/mvo: that's different from the previous bug, the first note that is shown is at least fixed in today's build
	[15:00] <cjwatson> stgraber: quick reproduction path?
	[15:00] <Mirv> cjwatson: it's about reboot, not about language support this time
	[15:00] <cjwatson> oh, hang on, that's a different message
	[15:00] <cjwatson> right
	[15:01] <stgraber> mvo, cjwatson: What I did is: Install OEM in english using the latest Desktop, then in the oem assistant, choose french, open the session and enable the langpack in language-selector (it wasn't installed by the oem assistant)
	[15:01] <cjwatson> I'll go fix it in update-notifier too
	[15:03] <kirkland> pitti: use fdisk when you have the entire disk attached to /dev/loop0 to find out the offset of the partition you want, then use that offset with losetup -o52428800 /dev/loop1 foo.img
	[15:04] <pitti> kirkland: oh, nice, thanks
	[15:04] <pitti> kirkland: it seemed odd to me that kvm images were almost, but not quite, mountable
	[15:04] <kirkland> pitti: :-)
	[15:04] <kirkland> pitti: yeah, the above is slightly klunky
	[15:04] <liw> pitti, you may want to look at kpartx (in package of the same name)
	[15:05] <kirkland> pitti: i wouldn't be surprised if someone in #ubuntu-virt has a better method
	[15:05] <pitti> /dev/loop0p5 37 401 2931831 83 Linux
	[15:05] <kirkland> pitti: but that's worked for me in the past, and i use it infrequently enough that i haven't gone looking for something else
	[15:05] <pitti> kirkland: ^ so for that this would be 37*512 or so?
	[15:06] <kirkland> pitti: exactly
	[15:06] <kirkland> pitti: i just googled and came across this, with a bit more explanation: http://www.docunext.com/blog/2007/07/08/losetup-working-with-raw-disk-images/
	[15:06] <pitti> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
	[15:06] <pitti> hm, maybe not
	[15:06] <kirkland> pitti: what's your units set to?
	[15:07] <liw> kpartx does all the setup automatically, to allow you to mount the partitions in a kvm image (raw image file format)
	[15:07] <stgraber> mvo, cjwatson: Do we have a bug about it or should I file a new one (and if yes, against what package ?) ?
	[15:07] <kirkland> pitti: can you pastebin your fdisk -l for me?
	[15:07] <pitti> kirkland: ah, that article is exactly my problem, too
	[15:07] <pitti> kirkland: http://paste.ubuntu.com/61007/
	[15:08] <pitti> kirkland: I actually just wanted to get two small text files into that kvm instance
	[15:08] <mvo> Riddell: does kubuntu has something list "install-apckage update" ?
	[15:08] <liw> pitti, http://files.liw.fi/temp/qemu-minimize has an example (that might still work) for how to use kpartx
	[15:08] <pitti> kirkland: first I tried to set up the pan0 interface, which didn't actually work, second I tried that "mount image" approach, and when I got stuck at that as well, I just typed the files by hand
	[15:09] <cjwatson> oh, it is in language-selector, I'm just stupid
	[15:09] <cjwatson> stgraber: please file it on language-selector so it can be marked release-critical
	[15:09] <stgraber> ok
	[15:10] <Riddell> mvo: yes, kdesudo install-package --update
	[15:10] <pitti> kirkland: "u" helps, yes; that's much better
	[15:10] <kirkland> pitti: switching the units, cool
	[15:10] <mvo> Riddell: thanks
	[15:11] <Mirv> mvo: 277526 was the Intrepid/High bug about also the lack of apt-get update in l-s, if you need that bug number for changelog.
	[15:11] <pitti> kirkland: hm, except that it doesn't actually work :(
	[15:11] <stgraber> cjwatson: bug 287573
	[15:11] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 287573 in language-selector "Junk in the notification message after installing a new language pack" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287573
	[15:11] <cjwatson> thanks
	[15:12] <kirkland> pitti: what format is your disk image?
	[15:12] <kirkland> pitti: raw, qcow or something else?
	[15:13] <cjwatson> stgraber: fixed in bzr
	[15:13] <mvo> Mirv: what is the difference between them? should they be merged?
	[15:13] <cjwatson> sorry for missing that first time round
	[15:13] <mvo> cjwatson: woah, that was quick
	[15:14] <cjwatson> I already had it in my tree before he filed it, since we'd been talking about it :)
	[15:14] <stgraber> cjwatson: great, thanks
	[15:15] <mathiaz> cjwatson: I've filed bug 287571 - I don't think it's critical for the RC release. But it may point to a bigger issue.
	[15:15] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 287571 in partman-auto "expert_recipe fails with "Can't have partition outside the disk" message on amd64 while working on i386" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287571
	[15:16] <kirkland> pitti: try: kpartx -av /dev/loop0
	[15:16] <pitti> argh, X crashed again
	[15:16] <kirkland> pitti: then look in /dev/mapper
	[15:16] <pitti> kirkland: format> nothing special really, I created it with DD
	[15:16] <pitti> "dd" rather
	[15:16] <cjwatson> mathiaz: thanks, will have a look
	[15:16] <kirkland> pitti: good, that's this simplest case
	[15:17] <kirkland> pitti: i just learned/tested the kpartx method discussed here: http://equivocation.org/node/107
	[15:17] <mvo> Riddell: review of commit "r209" in language-selector would be much appreciated (my qt foo is still not good, but it should be ok)
	[15:17] <kirkland> pitti: it is remarkably simple
	[15:17] <pitti> liw, kirkland: indeed, kpart seems like the very solution to that; thanks for that hint!
	[15:18] <kirkland> pitti: i figured there had to be an easier way that fdisk \| bc, but it worked for me ;-)
	[15:19] <pitti> kirkland: hm, the output is promising, but where do these nodes actually appear?
	[15:19] <kirkland> pitti: ls /dev/mapper
	[15:19] <pitti> aah
	[15:19] <kirkland> pitti: i have a loop0p1
	=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
	[15:19] <kirkland> pitti: you should be able to mount that
	[15:20] <pitti> for i in /dev/mapper/loop0p*; do sudo vol_id $i; done
	[15:20] <pitti> \o/
	[15:20] <pitti> splendid
	[15:20] <pitti> kirkland: hug
	[15:20] <pitti> that's too good to not blog about it actually
	[15:20] <kirkland> pitti: undo with umount, kpartx -dv, losetup -d
	[15:21] <kirkland> pitti: :-) go for it
	[15:21] <pitti> kirkland: but you discovered it, do you want to?
	[15:21] <pitti> heh, ok
	[15:21] <kirkland> pitti: it's all you ;-)
	[15:21] <kirkland> pitti: i just read someone else's blog: http://equivocation.org/node/107
	[15:22] <pitti> kirkland: oh, ok; no need to duplicate it then
	[15:22] <kirkland> pitti: i'll blog a pointer to it, how about that?
	[15:22] <pitti> kirkland: sounds good; spread the love :)
	[15:22] <kirkland> pitti: get the planet.ubuntu world over to that link ;-)
	[15:23] <Riddell> mvo: looks good to read over it, how do I test it (how do I make "No language information available")?
	[15:25] <mvo> Riddell: sudo rm /var/lib/apt/lists/* :)
	[15:26] <mvo> Riddell: or just move the files away, less destructive
	[15:27] <mvo> Mirv: hm, I just tested the noticiation thing with german and I got it fully localized - but its no longer a fully fresh install
	[15:28] <Riddell> mvo: works great
	[15:29] <Riddell> bryce: I just got hit by bug 271138, are you going to upload that fix today?
	[15:29] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 271138 in gdm "mouse and keyboard unresponsive when gdm first runs" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271138
	[15:29] <davmor2> any ubuntustudio devs here?
	[15:32] <mvo> Mirv: its not translated at all for you (the note)?
	[15:33] <mvo> Mirv: is the header translated? what is the output of "locale" on your system? I will try to reproduce
	[15:39] <Riddell> bryce: actually I don't know if it is that bug, I have evdev installed
	=== ion_ is now known as ION_
	[15:47] <tseliot> Riddell: can I see your xorg.conf and your /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
	[15:52] <NCommander> seb128, good morning
	[15:52] <seb128> hello NCommander
	[15:52] <NCommander> seb128, how goes your day?
	=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
	[15:53] <tkamppeter> Riddell, hi
	[15:53] <seb128> NCommander: ok, doing intrepid rc testing and some GNOME updates
	[15:53] <seb128> NCommander: how is yours?
	[15:53] <Riddell> tseliot: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/xorg/
	[15:53] <Riddell> tkamppeter: hi
	[15:53] <NCommander> seb128, attacking my inbox, getting ready for the Xubuntu RC testing, and then attending a memorial service
	[15:54] <tkamppeter> Riddell, can you add yourself as bug contact for system-config-printer-kde? You have written it, so for you it should be easiest to fix bugs in it.
	[15:55] <Riddell> tkamppeter: "Subscribe to bug mail"?
	[15:55] <tkamppeter> Riddell, I think so.
	[15:55] * ogra curses evo ... its the third time i have to supply my password today
	[15:56] <tkamppeter> Then I do not need to subscribe you to every appearing bug any more.
	[15:56] <Riddell> tkamppeter: I've subscribed me and kubuntu-bugs
	[15:56] <tkamppeter> Riddell, OK, thank you.
	[15:59] <tseliot> Riddell: your xorg.conf looks good. It might be the same bug
	[16:00] <tseliot> Riddell: oh and did jockey work as expected?
	[16:04] <Riddell> tseliot: no, since I can't log in to X :(
	=== seb_ is now known as seb_cd
	[16:06] <tseliot> Riddell: does it help if you comment out the whole ServerLayout section in your xorg.conf?
	[16:06] <jcristau> Riddell: looks like hal doesn't list any input devices. what does lshal say?
	[16:09] <Riddell> tseliot: no
	[16:10] <ogra> is hal even running ?
	[16:10] <Riddell> ogra: yes
	[16:10] <jcristau> ogra: if hal isn't running that usually shows up in the log
	[16:10] <ogra> ah
	[16:10] <Riddell> jcristau: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/xorg/LSHAL
	[16:11] <ogra> i didnt know X became that intelligent :)
	[16:11] <jcristau> hrm. no x11_driver property anywhere.
	[16:11] <doko> jcristau, bryce: when do you plan to upload the fix for #281610 (wanting to know if I should delay a openjdk-6 upload)
	[16:12] <tseliot> Riddell: can you try this xorg.conf? http://pastebin.com/m7c7113d
	[16:12] <ogra> does /etc/default/console-setup exist ?
	[16:12] <jcristau> doko: debian not affected, so not my bug :)
	[16:13] <ogra> (and have XKB variables set)
	[16:13] <jcristau> the xkb stuff shows up, just not x11_driver..
	[16:13] <ogra> oh, wait, right
	[16:14] <Riddell> tseliot: what's the plain url for that?
	[16:15] <Riddell> ogra: yes (if you're talking to me)
	[16:15] <tseliot> Riddell: http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m7c7113d
	[16:15] <ogra> Riddell, i was, but as jcristau pointed out, hal sets them, i missed that
	[16:16] <tjaalton> doko: would need a confirmation first that it works
	[16:16] <tjaalton> doko: probably after RC
	[16:16] <tjaalton> bryce: ^^
	[16:19] <Riddell> tseliot: yay, that works
	[16:19] <tseliot> Riddell: great :-)
	[16:20] <jcristau> that's not a fix though. something hal is broken
	[16:20] <Riddell> strange how this only happens on upgrades and not on new installs
	[16:20] <Riddell> and only with this machine
	[16:20] <Riddell> tseliot: so, what was I to test with jockey?
	[16:21] <tseliot> Riddell: can you modify the .desktop file of jockey-kde according to what is in the diff (only the lines in green) and see if you can reproduce the problem with the wirless driver? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jockey-hackers/jockey/trunk/revision/496
	[16:21] <tseliot> jcristau: yes, I know. I wanted to give him his keyboard and mouse back ;)
	[16:22] <jcristau> fair enough :)
	[16:22] <tseliot> Riddell: we transition users to the new input hotplug (which is supposed to work) during dist-upgrades
	[16:24] <Mirv> mvo: after fresh install from today morning's build with no network connection, all english, locale says fi_FI.UTF-8 for all
	[16:25] <Mirv> mvo: and to the previous question, 135752 and 277526, now combined, are about lack of apt-get update plus not offering installing support for the default language, 287556 is this new bug about non-localized note
	[16:25] <Mirv> mvo: the strings are all there in the .note file, though
	[16:26] <Mirv> mvo: is it perhaps because 0.3.15 has eg. "Name-de.UTF-8" instead of "Name-de_DE.UTF-8"?
	[16:31] <mvo> Mirv: I check, but I got a german translation on a non-networked install. but I will double check
	[16:32] <Mirv> mvo: can I trigger the note somehow myself after first clicking it away?
	[16:32] <Riddell> tseliot: adding that change to the jockey-kde.desktop file I start jockey thruogh the applications menu and I can install and uninstall drivers
	[16:32] <Riddell> tseliot: yay :)
	[16:32] <pitti> rocking
	[16:32] <mvo> Mirv: yes, please run sudo touch /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/* ; sudo touch /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp
	[16:33] <pitti> Riddell, tseliot: so it seems the .desktop fix is the only thing we need then?
	[16:33] <pitti> I'll upload that now
	[16:33] <tseliot> pitti: yep
	[16:33] <tseliot> Riddell: thanks for testing the fix
	[16:33] <Riddell> tseliot: thanks for fixing
	[16:35] <tseliot> ;)
	[16:35] <mvo> Mirv: that was a install with the desktop or the alternate disk (I don't think it makes a difference, but I want to be sure)
	[16:36] * ogra curses ... ok, that starts getting annoying ... evo asked the fifth time for the passwprd now
	[16:36] <Mirv> mvo: yeah, still English. desktop CD, in virtualbox.
	[16:36] <pitti> Riddell: uploaded, waiting in unapproved now
	[16:37] * tseliot thinks that ogra should switch to kmail
	[16:37] <ogra> tseliot, haha
	[16:37] <pitti> mutt FTW!
	[16:37] <Mirv> mvo: might there be some part of German support on the CD that enables slightly more? like, if one goes to language selector, Finnish is selected as the "Default Language" even though only English is listed at all in the Supported Languages above
	[16:37] <tseliot> ogra: it what I did ;)
	[16:37] <superm1> ogra, didn't I lobby well for you switching to tbird after I told you about those extensions?
	[16:37] <ogra> well, i'D rather have evo behaving instead of switching
	[16:38] <ogra> but having to type my PW ten times a day just gets to annoying
	[16:38] <sebner> ogra: what about TB?
	[16:38] <ogra> sebner, that would be my second choice after evo
	[16:38] <tseliot> ogra: ok, pay someone to type in the password for you then? :-P
	[16:39] <ogra> tseliot, i'm not so good in writing up NDAs ;P
	[16:39] <seb128> use gnome-keyring?
	[16:39] <sebner> ogra: for me it's my first choice before evo but anyhow. good boy :)
	[16:39] <ogra> seb128, isnt that used by default ?
	[16:39] <seb128> right and it makes you unlock the gnome-keyring and not enter passwords again
	[16:40] <ogra> seb128, i never changed anything in my evo setup ... and always used g-keyring
	[16:40] <seb128> and it asks you for password?
	[16:40] <ogra> but since about two weeks its constantly asking for my pop PW
	[16:41] <ogra> just popped up again
	[16:41] <seb128> run seahorse, go to edit, preferences and see what keyrings are available and what is the default one
	[16:41] <seb128> did it ever store it? or it asks every time?
	[16:41] <seb128> is your server not reliable?
	[16:41] <ogra> its gmail
	[16:41] <mvo> the new ubiquity partition manager gui is pretty nice, but not the most friendly to color blind (or partially color blind) people
	[16:41] <ogra> should be reliable enough
	[16:41] <ogra> and it didnt do that before
	[16:41] <ogra> unless google changed something recently the server should be fine
	[16:42] <seb128> mvo: you still have the lists which is text only ;-)
	[16:42] <mvo> pff
	[16:43] <evand> mvo: Can you please file a bug on that
	[16:43] <jdstrand> slangasek: hi!
	[16:43] <jdstrand> slangasek: I just uploaded a fix for bug #287533
	[16:43] <seb128> mvo: just curious but what makes easier for you? adding rounds, lines, etc?
	[16:43] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 287533 in libvirt "[regression] cannot use more than one vcpu" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287533
	[16:43] <ogra> seb128, hmm, it doesnt list my pop PW in seahorse
	[16:43] <seb128> mvo: or that's the colors choice?
	[16:43] <seb128> ogra: do you have several keyrings listed?
	[16:44] <seb128> ogra: it could be trying to store it or read it in the wrong keyring
	[16:44] <jdstrand> slangasek: it's a one liner (debdiff in bug) and likely important for ISO testing SMP
	[16:44] <mvo> seb128: the color choices are not ideal, the second and third are too close for me, something in the color (e.g. a shape) would help
	[16:44] <mvo> gnuplot gets this tright for example with the different shapes for the points
	[16:44] <ogra> seb128, it shows my gpg key and my ssh key in the first tab in seahorse ... my gpg key has two subkeys
	[16:45] <seb128> ogra: don't bother about those
	[16:45] <seb128> mvo: I see
	[16:45] <ogra> where do i look then ?
	[16:45] <seb128> ogra: edit, preferences, the tab lists what keyring?
	[16:46] <ogra> login ??
	[16:46] <ogra> nothing else in there
	[16:47] <seb128> ok, that's not a "store in the wrong keyring" issue then
	[16:47] <ogra> i dont see anything evo related in the passwords tab though
	[16:47] <seb128> you should open a bug on bugzilla.gnome.org, or ask on #evolution on the GNOME irc
	[16:47] <seb128> that's weird
	[16:47] <seb128> your passwords should be there
	[16:48] <seb128> the network manager and evolution passwords are stored there
	[16:48] <ogra> i have a googlecal, an ldap pw for the directory server some NM networks ... oh, and i see the smtp one for canonical
	[16:48] <ogra> but nothing for pop
	[16:48] <ogra> and one sftp for a local machine
	[16:49] <calc> Riddell: bug in #ubuntu-testing alt oem install broken see bug 218144
	[16:49] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 218144 in ubuntu "Kubuntu KDE4 Alternative amd64 OEM installation failure" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218144
	[16:50] <ogra> remember password is checked in evo for both, pop and smtp
	[16:51] <ogra> i sadly dont have the time to debug it further right now
	[16:55] <mvo> Mirv: hm, no luck. fresh install without network but the german notification appears fine (in german) - I will try finish next I think (after dinner)
	=== k00n is now known as Koon
	[17:06] <cjwatson> Mirv: perhaps the locale isn't generated, but the installer ought to do that
	[17:18] <calc> cjwatson: who should 218144 be assigned to?
	[17:18] <cjwatson> calc: at least partly me, I just hadn't got round to doing so yet
	[17:19] <calc> ok
	[17:21] <cjwatson> calc: could you file a separate bug on gnome-app-install (was that what you used? Add/Remove... is gnome-app-install) for the package manager bug?
	[17:22] <cjwatson> I'd rather not create another task for basically an unrelated problem
	[17:22] <mvo> calc: what bug is that?
	[17:24] <mvo> Mirv: thanks, I try with finish next, what is finish spelled like in finish (I guess that sounds a bit stupid now :)
	[17:24] <Keybuk> The two descriptors do not share file descriptor flags (the close-on-
	[17:24] <Keybuk> exec flag). The close-on-exec flag (FD_CLOEXEC; see fcntl(2)) for the
	[17:24] <Keybuk> duplicate descriptor is off.
	[17:24] <Keybuk> does anyone else think that's repeating itself a little?
	[17:24] <Keybuk> and perhaps incrementally clarifying
	[17:24] <calc> cjwatson: i didn't file the original bug but i can take a look later today to see if that bug still exists (the original bug is from april)
	[17:25] <cjwatson> calc: oh, sorry
	[17:25] <calc> colin king filed it, isn't he a kernel guy?
	[17:26] <mvo> calc: what is that add/remove issue you mentioned?
	[17:26] <cjwatson> yeah, I commented on the bug
	[17:26] <cjwatson> I guess I saw the leading C and didn't read further :)
	[17:26] <calc> mvo: bug 218144
	[17:26] <cjwatson> mvo: it was Colin King, see bug 218144
	[17:26] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 218144 in oem-config "Kubuntu 8.10 OEM Installation fails (amd64/i386)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218144
	[17:26] * mvo looks
	[17:27] <calc> cjwatson: i noticed late last night that issue still exists in the kubuntu installer and just followed up to it once someone found the bug report for me
	[17:31] <Mirv> mvo: firstly, it's Finnish with two "n":s, and in Finnish it's "suomi" :)
	=== thegodfather is now known as fabbione
	=== thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak
	[18:00] <Mirv> mvo: installed in German, but indeed German is one of the rare languages that has some language packages on the CD. works there.
	=== thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak
	=== mathiaz_ is now known as mathiaz
	[18:17] <superm1> pitti, fglrx didn't make it onto the 20081022 dvd, but it was using up to date seeds (1361 revisions). are you sure the components are set correctly for the packages? ? Unknown supported-kernel package: fglrx-kernel-source
	[18:18] <steveire> Hi. Which channel gnome developers use? I tried gnome-devel, but that's empty
	[18:18] <superm1> and a few others too. will it be troublesome that xorg-driver-fglrx is Recommends libamdxvba1 when resolving this since that is supposed to be multiverse? I've got to do one more upload of it anyhow for a metabug that cropped up, so if it needs to be dropped to suggests, i can do that now too
	=== ION_ is now known as ion_
	[18:23] <kirkland> pitti: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2008/10/mounting-kvm-disk-image.html
	[18:25] <steveire> Anyone?
	[18:26] <liw> steveire, upstream gnome developers are probably on the irc.gnome.org network
	[18:27] <steveire> liw: Ah, right thanks
	[18:30] <pitti> steveire: what liw said, on #gnome-hackers
	[18:30] <steveire> pitti: Found it. thanks
	[18:30] <pitti> superm1: fglrx-kernel-source \| 2:8.543-0ubuntu3 \| intrepid/multiverse \| amd64, i386
	[18:30] <pitti> superm1: argh, fixing
	[18:31] <superm1> pitti, it looks like all of the binaries are in multiverse, not just that one
	[18:31] <pitti> superm1: just saw that, too; weird, I'm 100% sure I moved them yesterday
	[18:32] <mathiaz> pitti: will you have some time before release to process the obm MIR? bug 259776
	[18:32] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 259776 in obm "MIR for obm" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259776
	[18:37] <pitti> mathiaz: it's targetted to intrepid? I haven't reviewed it previously (was lool), but if it's urgent, I'll make sure that it gets reviewed ASAP
	[18:37] <pitti> mathiaz: (I'm pretty busy with release preps and archive consistency cleanups, sorry)
	[18:37] <sylvaing> mathiaz: if you are questions about obm i'm here ;-)
	[18:38] <mathiaz> nijaba: ^^?
	[18:39] <superm1> pitti, so will the recommend libamdxvba1 thing be a problem for adding this to the dvd since it's cross component, or will that just get ignored and be no trouble?
	[18:39] <sylvaing> mathiaz: i'm uploader of obm
	[18:39] <pitti> superm1: yes, it needs to be suggests
	[18:40] <superm1> pitti, okay i'll drop it to suggests then in this upload for the metabug
	[18:40] <pitti> superm1: thanks
	[19:25] <oliver_g_1> kirkland: wanted to ask about bug 279049
	[19:25] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 279049 in ubuntu-manpage-repository "Should provide simple shortcut links to manpages" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279049
	[19:25] <Riddell> wgrant: ping
	[19:25] <oliver_g_1> is there a test site where this is already implemented?
	[19:27] <kirkland> oliver_g_1: -> /msg
	[19:27] <Riddell> wgrant: your patch to x11proto-input adds "BOOL delete" which breaks c++
	=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
	[19:33] <Riddell> tjaalton, bryce: either of you know where to find a fix for that? I hear upstream may have fixed it
	=== steve__ is now known as sbeattie
	[19:35] <bryce> Riddell: have a link to the patch or the bug it fixed?
	[19:35] <bryce> sounds like it just needs to be changed to a name other than 'delete'
	[19:35] <tjaalton> Riddell: no commits to inputproto
	[19:36] <bryce> since obviously that's a reserved c++ keyword
	[19:37] <bryce> aha, 100-Add-Device-Properties-X-Input-1.5.patch
	[19:38] <tjaalton> we've had that for some time now..
	[19:38] <bryce> Riddell: I'll take care of it, thanks for pointing it out. Can you file a LP bug if there's not one already, so we have something to attach the fix to?
	[19:38] <bryce> tjaalton: well it wouldn't show up unless someone tried to compile a C++ code against that header
	[19:38] <bryce> tjaalton: so no surprise it'd show up via KDE work
	[19:38] <bryce> it's clearly a bad C/C++ thingee
	[19:38] <tjaalton> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/proto/inputproto/diff/?id=fabe087cebb11c6a2600e57c6f7a52fda2efea29
	[19:39] <bryce> tjaalton: thanks
	[19:39] <bryce> icky hack
	[19:40] <bryce> hrm, this is not going to be an easy thing to fix
	[19:40] * bryce ponders
	[19:41] <tjaalton> why?
	[19:43] <bryce> tjaalton: well we'll need to fix anything that's using that delete structure member as well
	[19:44] <tjaalton> ok
	[19:45] <bryce> Riddell: can you give some more detail about where this issue cropped up?
	[19:45] <liw> surely the right fix is to rename the field for all users, not just c++ code?
	[19:46] <bryce> liw, that would be my idea as well, which is why I said this was an icky hack
	[19:47] <bryce> but I understand why they did it this way - if it gets changed, then we have to rebuild everything that uses it
	[19:47] <bryce> I wish upstream had put in a cleaner fix
	[19:48] <Riddell> bryce: someone was compiling qt 4.5
	[19:48] <liw> I wish C++ hadn't invented a new keyword ;-)
	[19:49] <bryce> liw, when we converted inkscape to C++ we had a whole mess of issues like this
	[19:50] <bryce> objects had a "class" member we had to change to "klass" throughout
	[19:50] <jcristau> liw: rename for all users -> change users
	[19:50] <jcristau> liw: rename for C++ -> no change for existing users
	[19:50] <liw> bryce, yeah... either no new keywords should be added, or keywords should be in a namespace of their own... one language I know used all-uppercase for keywords and forbade that for user symbols
	[19:50] <liw> jcristau, I realize that, but it's still a kludge
	[19:52] <jcristau> (admittedly, for something like GetDeviceProperty that's never been released, changing it for everyone might have been better)
	[19:55] <pitti> liw: invented a new keyword> has it? new and delete are in C++ for ... ever
	[19:55] <liw> pitti, compared to C, it did invent them; C still doesn't have those keywords, so they're new to many C programmers
	[19:55] <pitti> liw: right, but then you compare two different languages
	[19:56] <pitti> that's not really a fair complaint :)
	[19:56] <persia> pitti, Except that C++ permits #include of C headers, rather than expecting bindings as do most languages.
	[19:56] <persia> So it's potentially buggy for any C programmer to write headers that aren't also C++ compliant.
	[19:57] <pitti> I thought that's why you should wrap them into some namespace "C" thingy?
	[19:57] <liw> and unless said C programmer _knows_ C++, they can't know they're breaking C++ inclusion
	[19:57] <liw> pitti, it doesn't provide a full C compatibility; keywords is one example where it breaks
	[19:58] <pitti> that's true, yes
	[19:58] <superm1> pitti, can you nuke fglrx-installer_8.543-0ubuntu4.dsc from unapproved? Someone just responded to another bug that we can squeeze a fix into, so I'll just add it and redo the upload?
	[20:00] <pitti> superm1: boom gone
	[20:00] <superm1> thanks pitti
	[20:01] <slangasek> jdstrand: "ISO testing SMP"?
	[20:01] <jdstrand> slangasek: yes. virt-manager won't let you specify more than 1 VCPU in the guest when using kvm
	[20:02] <liw> jdstrand, oh?
	[20:02] <jdstrand> slangasek: I tend to do 2 CPUs in the guest, for variety when doing ISO testing
	[20:02] <slangasek> jdstrand: accepting libvirt implies a respin of ubuntu-server; are there testing resources available in the server team to give us full test coverage in the next 8 hours or so if we do that?
	[20:02] <jdstrand> slangasek: so I upped it to 16, since that is what our version of kvm can support
	[20:03] <jdstrand> dendrobates: ^
	[20:03] <liw> oh, it really doesn't
	[20:04] <jdstrand> slangasek: I figured getting it into the archive and then have it be on the next CD would be enough...
	[20:04] <jdstrand> slangasek: but I don't allocate resources, or respin the CDs, which is why I came to you directly ;)
	[20:08] <slangasek> jdstrand: we prefer to keep the skew between the CDs and the archive to a minimum at the point of the RC
	[20:09] * jdstrand nods
	[20:10] <slangasek> so I'd prefer to not accept this until after the RC, really
	[20:12] <jdstrand> slangasek: whatever you decide-- I just wanted you to know what was happening
	[20:12] <slangasek> if the server team as a whole (or dendrobates) thinks there are resources to test after another respin, and want me to push the button, I'm happy to do that
	=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
	=== velo_backup is now known as veloc1ty
	=== lionel_ is now known as lionel
	=== jono_ is now known as jono
	[20:35] <dendrobates> slangasek: we can retest, if you will respin.
	[20:35] <slangasek> dendrobates: can, or want to? :)
	[20:36] <dendrobates> slangasek: We will retest. I would like the fixed libvirt to get in.
	[20:37] <jdstrand> slangasek: out of curiosity, will Ubuntu QA Tracker notify me as soon as they are respun?
	[20:37] <slangasek> dendrobates: ok, accepted; expect the new images to be available in about 2-2.5h
	[20:37] <slangasek> jdstrand: if it normally notifies you, then yes
	[20:37] <jdstrand> ok (it does)
	[20:38] <mvo> Mirv: installing in finish is cool, I had no idea you have so many "ä"s :)
	[20:42] <Treenaks> mvo: You've never seen German, have you? :P
	[20:43] <slangasek> kein Deutschesprache für mvo
	[20:43] <slangasek> s/kein/keine/
	[20:43] <ion_> ääliöitä
	[20:43] <mvo> heh :)
	[20:44] <pitti> Я только понимаю вокзал!
	[20:45] <ion_> ɥǝɥ
	[20:45] <directhex> ya tolko ponymayou voksal? now, the verb is "i understand"
	[20:45] <directhex> but i don't remember "tolko" or "voksal"
	[20:45] <Treenaks> directhex: "Bahnhof"
	[20:46] <pitti> directhex: только -> only, вокзал -> train staion
	[20:46] <pitti> station
	[20:46] <pitti> directhex: "I only understand train station" is a common phrase in German meaning "I don't get it"
	[20:46] <directhex> pitti, ah yes, i remember the latter now. i don't remember tolko though.
	[20:46] <directhex> germans speaking russian? stalin lost!
	[20:46] <Treenaks> pitti: прямой
	=== hibana_ is now known as hibana
	[20:47] <directhex> man, i haven't done any russian for a decade
	[20:47] <Treenaks> directhex: since the iron curtain thing?
	[20:48] <pitti> Treenaks: Товарищ!
	[20:48] <Treenaks> oh wait, that's almost two decades already
	[20:48] * Treenaks feels old :(
	[20:48] <pitti> directhex: worse. Treenaks is Dutch :)
	[20:48] <ion_> That word has been copied to Finnish almost as-is.
	[20:48] <directhex> pitti, i know that one
	[20:56] <mvo> Mirv: I can reproduce the problem with finish just fine, I'm debugging now
	[20:57] * lool 'night folks
	[20:58] <superm1> doko, i was just about to upload another fglrx-installer with another bug fix that included the fixes you just uploaded.
	[20:58] <doko> superm1: sorry, didn't see that.
	[20:59] <doko> just wanted to get rid of ia32-libs
	[20:59] <superm1> doko, no problem, i'll just bump the number and merge yours
	[20:59] <doko> thanks
	[20:59] <mvo> liw: system cleaner does not have a icon?
	[20:59] <pitti> doko, superm1: anything I should reject again?
	[21:00] <liw> mvo, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-cleaner/+bug/274714
	[21:00] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 274714 in system-cleaner "System Cleaner Has No Icon" [Low,Triaged]
	=== DktrKranz2 is now known as DktrKranz
	[21:01] <superm1> pitti, yeah if you can, i'll just upload mine with the additional changes (which included doko's)
	[21:01] <mvo> thanks liw
	[21:02] <pitti> superm1: done
	[21:04] <pitti> james_w: I'm inclined to upload your consolekit fix to the queue now, to be accepted right after RC; do you have some doubts or negative feedback about it?
	[21:07] <joaopinto> grub is automatically adding me entires for kernels no longer available, any idea where it get's that list from ?
	[21:10] <slangasek> TheMuso, persia: no test results in yet for UbuntuStudio?
	[21:13] <pitti> cjwatson: debian-installer in hardy-proposed just went to the -21 kernel, which is now in main; can I just copy-package that to -updates, or did that require manual copying of some files? (I faintly remember something like that in dapper.1)
	[21:13] <cjwatson> pitti: requires manual copying, want me to take care of it?
	[21:13] <pitti> cjwatson: not really urgent, has time until after release; I was just curious
	[21:14] <cjwatson> I can do it, it's OK
	[21:14] <pitti> cjwatson: thanks
	[21:14] <pitti> Riddell: I think it becomes urgent to get bug 280295 into hardy-updates; was the -proposed version tested by anyone
	[21:14] <Riddell> bryce: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/proto/inputproto/diff/?id=fabe087cebb11c6a2600e57c6f7a52fda2efea29
	[21:14] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 280295 in adept "do not offer upgrade to intrepid automatically" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280295
	[21:14] <pitti> ?
	[21:15] <cjwatson> you have to copy dists/<foo>-{proposed,updates}/main/installer-i386/<date> and update the current symlink, and you have to do this while the publisher isn't running or else do it in dists.new
	[21:15] <bryce> Riddell: thanks
	[21:15] <Riddell> pitti: I tested it, I've not heard anything from QA
	[21:15] <bryce> Riddell: however I'm wondering if there are corresponding source file changes for that
	[21:15] <pitti> Riddell: that's fine, it was an easy patch; I'm more concerned about miscompilations or so
	[21:16] <pitti> Riddell: if you used the .deb from -proposed, that's good enough for me
	[21:16] <liw> .deb! he said .deb! see! I'm not the only one!
	[21:16] <liw> (sorry)
	[21:17] <kees> moquist: ping
	[21:17] <slangasek> liw: heh
	[21:17] <pitti> liw: what's wrong with it?
	[21:17] <pitti> liw: did we switch to rpm without me noticing? :-)
	[21:18] <Riddell> bryce: you're the X man, not me :) do you know the committer? peter.hutterer@redhat
	[21:18] <liw> pitti, I had a bug filed against system-cleaner for being too much like windows because I say ".deb package" instead of "Debian package"
	[21:18] <moquist> kees: pong
	[21:18] <pitti> liw: welcome to the difference of normal human people and developers :-P
	[21:19] <cjwatson> liw: you forget, people who've been Debian developers since before Ubuntu existed don't know how .deb is supposed to be spelled
	[21:19] <bryce> Riddell: yup
	[21:19] <pitti> it's an, erm, "deb"...
	[21:19] <bryce> Riddell: aka whot. He's a good guy and puts out well-thought-out code
	[21:20] <Riddell> bryce: are you able to ping him and find out if there's code changes needed?
	[21:21] <cjwatson> pitti: no, it was the dot he was complaining about
	[21:21] <bryce> Riddell: hang on, I may be able to figure it out directly
	=== hibana_ is now known as hibana
	[21:26] <bryce> Riddell: I've asked whot on #xorg-devel.
	[21:27] <pitti> Riddell: so, did you test with a local build or with the hardy-proposed packages?
	[21:27] <Riddell> pitti: I'm pretty sure I tested with hardy-proposed, but it was a while ago and I can't help feeling I should double check
	[21:28] <sbeattie> Riddell\|pitti: is there an obvious way to test that one?
	[21:28] <james_w> pitti: I think the bug would be good to fix, my only concerns are that I am way out of my comfort zone and there has been no upstream review.
	[21:28] <sbeattie> as in, will the current adept ask me about upgrading?
	[21:28] <pitti> james_w: yeah, I wish William would take a look at it
	[21:28] <pitti> sbeattie: not until we release intrepid, I'd think
	[21:29] <Riddell> sbeattie: install adept from hardy-proposed, edit /etc/hosts add "193.28.45.42 changelogs.ubuntu.com", run adept and refresh packages
	[21:29] <james_w> pitti: I can't believe we're the only ones hitting it
	[21:29] <Riddell> check if Version Upgrade button appears
	[21:29] <pitti> james_w: no, but we are the only ones having apport :)
	[21:29] <sbeattie> Riddell: awesome, thanks, I'll go about verifying that fix.
	[21:30] * james_w hugs apport
	[21:30] * james_w hugs pitti
	[21:30] * pitti hugs james_w back
	[21:37] <bryce> Riddell: ok, got the question sorted out, I'll put in the patch
	[21:39] <ajmitch> bryce: was nvidia-xconfig/nvidia-settings ever a supported way to write out xorg.conf?
	[21:39] * ajmitch had X fail to parse the config file due to a stray RGBPath, was wondering if bug 278055 should be confirmed
	[21:39] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 278055 in nvidia-settings "nvidia-settings generates broken xorg.conf files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/278055
	[21:40] <pitti> sbeattie: there's a bunch of pending SRUs with recipes, too (like #256891); I did a few verifications now, but I can't test my own uploads
	[21:41] <sbeattie> pitti: yes, sorry, I've been focusing on intrepid, so hardy SRUs have stalled a bit.
	[21:41] <pitti> sbeattie: that's fine; intrepid is more urgent ATM :)
	[21:41] <bryce> ajmitch: I wouldn't call it supported, but I think it was used by an appreciable number of users. jockey would be the supported way.
	[21:42] <ajmitch> bryce: right, it's just something that bit me on upgrade the other day
	[21:42] <ajmitch> I suspect that my xorg.conf was written out before jockey was around
	=== hibana__ is now known as hibana
	[21:56] <mvo> Mirv: I uploaded a fix for the notification translations, please let me know if it fixes the issue for you (when you have time) - thanks a lot for reporting it and for your detailed testing \o/
	[21:57] <mdke_> is anyone able to sponsor the upload of ubuntu-docs requested at bug 286829
	[21:57] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 286829 in ubuntu-docs "Please update ubuntu-docs from bzr" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286829
	[21:57] <mdke_> ?
	=== mdke_ is now known as mdke
	=== hibana_ is now known as hibana
	[22:11] <calc> cjwatson: we found another issue, rescue mode on ubuntu alt doesn't work
	[22:11] <cjwatson> eek
	[22:11] <calc> cjwatson: heno was wondering what package to file it against
	[22:11] <cjwatson> 'rescue'
	[22:12] <calc> ah ok
	[22:12] <cjwatson> rescue hasn't changed for ages
	[22:13] <calc> cjwatson: it fails when trying to enter rescue mode after all the prelim stuff is setup, at least for me
	[22:13] <calc> cjwatson: i think heno managed to get a better error message out of it than i did
	[22:14] <heno> filing a bug, just a sec
	[22:17] <heno> cjwatson, calc: bug 287788
	[22:17] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 287788 in rescue "8.10 RC rescue mode fails to start shell n root device" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287788
	[22:19] <calc> cjwatson: i saw a failure to enter rescue mode (different screen)
	[22:19] <cjwatson> it wasn't i386 rescue mode with amd64 installs was it?
	[22:19] <heno> oh?
	[22:19] <calc> i can see about screenshoting it after i am done with my current test, assuming i can still reproduce it
	[22:19] <calc> heno: yea it was a different message but still a red screen one
	[22:20] <heno> cjwatson: indeed it was
	[22:20] <cjwatson> heno: can't do that
	[22:20] <calc> cjwatson: mine was i386 on i386
	[22:20] <calc> cjwatson: but with two ubuntu installs on the hd
	[22:20] <cjwatson> you can execute a shell in the installer environment, but an i386 rescue CD can't execute an amd64-compiled shell
	[22:20] * heno retries 64-on-64
	[22:23] <calc> cjwatson: how is it supposed to work with two linux installs on the drive, come up with an option of which to choose?
	[22:23] <cjwatson> calc: yes
	[22:23] <calc> ok
	[22:23] <cjwatson> indeed it should just give you a menu of all your partitions
	[22:24] <calc> ok
	[22:24] <cjwatson> it's known to handle the case where there are no partitions rather poorly, but that isn't what you're describing ...
	[22:24] <calc> well i'll try to reproduce it and get a screenshot asap
	[22:24] <calc> unfortunately i started another install before fully investigating it
	[22:26] <seb128> calc: hi, why did you close bug #273930?
	[22:26] <ubottu> Bug 273930 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/273930 is private
	[22:26] <heno> I've closed my bug. I'll try i386->i386 too
	[22:27] <calc> seb128: apparently it was a mistake on the wrong bug or something like that
	[22:27] <seb128> calc: ok, because the crash is still there using the intrepid candidate
	[22:28] <calc> seb128: does this just happen on upgrade?
	[22:28] <calc> seb128: i couldn't reproduce it on i386
	[22:28] <calc> seb128: liw saw it on amd64 running off the cd
	[22:28] <seb128> calc: no, that was on kvm i386
	[22:29] <calc> seb128: the dupe that liw attached was on amd64
	[22:29] <seb128> calc: clicking to open several example-content examples
	[22:29] <calc> seb128: before they can load, or just doing it generally?
	[22:29] <seb128> calc: openoffice is slow to start, just double click on several example in nautilus and wait a bit
	[22:30] <calc> ah ok
	[22:30] * calc is tracking down another bug right now
	[22:31] <liw> calc, I get it even if I double-click on just one thin in nautilus, and then do nothing, waiting patiently for OO to start and then boom (just did that, again)
	[22:31] <seb128> calc: that's not an important issue, I was just wondering why you closed the bug, you didn't add any comment there and just closed
	[22:31] <calc> ok
	[22:31] <calc> i was going through hundreds of bugs and must have closed the wrong bug
	[22:31] <seb128> ok, so it should be reopened
	[22:31] <calc> yep already reopened it
	[22:32] <seb128> I was just not sure if it had been discussed on IRC and closed after that or something
	[22:32] <seb128> or if that was an error
	[22:32] <seb128> thanks
	[22:32] <NCommander> hey ScottK
	[22:32] <ScottK> Heya
	[22:35] <bryce> hmm, I'm getting timeout errors when nominating bug 284603 for intrepid
	[22:35] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 284603 in x11proto-input "/usr/include/X11/extensions/XIproto.h contains reserved C++ keyword" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284603
	[22:45] <TheMuso> slangasek: My day yesterday had just about finished by the time new studio isos were done. I'm going to do them today.
	[22:45] <calc> yipee it gave me the error message again
	[22:45] <slangasek> TheMuso: ok
	[22:45] <calc> it seems to do it every time for me
	[22:46] <slangasek> calc: "the error message"?
	[22:46] <calc> wtf
	[22:46] <calc> "rescue-mode: no partitions found!"
	[22:46] <calc> oh does this not work with encrypted lvm?
	[22:46] * calc scrolls up
	[22:47] <calc> can't see where that was discussed now
	[22:47] <calc> cjwatson: ping
	[22:48] <calc> slangasek: do you know much about rescue mode?
	[22:48] <slangasek> not really
	[22:48] <calc> slangasek: ok
	[22:48] <calc> well its not working for me, colin was here until a few min ago :\
	[22:49] <cjwatson> calc: I'm here
	[22:50] <calc> cjwatson: ah ok
	[22:50] <calc> cjwatson: it says no partition found for encrypted lvm
	[22:50] <cjwatson> luks != dm-crypt, right?
	[22:50] <calc> cjwatson: i can try running it against a regular install and see if it works for it
	[22:50] <cjwatson> it only supports luks at the moment; Debian bug 404261
	[22:50] <ubottu> Debian bug 404261 in rescue-mode "rescue-mode: should support encrypted disks" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/404261
	[22:51] <cjwatson> huh, bizarre, that description is wrong. Should be "rescue-mode: should support loop-aes and plain dm-crypt encrypted disks"
	[22:51] <calc> cjwatson: no idea, i just did a intrepid lvm encrypted install according to the test case then rebooted to see what the error was that rescue mode gave me
	[22:51] <cjwatson> I'll give it a quick try here, thanks
	[22:51] <calc> cjwatson: iirc it also failed in a similar manner for two regular installed partitions but i may be wrong, i'll give it a try again
	[22:51] <calc> cjwatson: or if you have extra machines to test with try to do a regular + resize install then see if it fails
	[22:52] <cjwatson> that would definitely be more surprising
	[22:52] <calc> it said failing step is: "Enter rescue mode"
	[22:52] <calc> then alt-f4 mentioned the no partitions bit
	[22:53] <calc> i'll try to do a quick multi install and check it again
	[22:54] <cjwatson> the encrypted LVM failure is definitely plausible - I don't think it's RC but it ought to be fixed
	[22:55] <cjwatson> if it's failing with plain partitions then I think that's RC
	[22:57] <calc> bug 287807
	[22:57] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 287807 in rescue "rescue: fails for lvm encrypted install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287807
	[22:57] <calc> i filed that one, now working on the regular case failure, i'm pretty sure it was a regular case
	[22:57] <calc> well i'll verify whether it happens on a truely regular case install
	[22:58] <cjwatson> ok
	[23:00] <calc> i'll start with a regular install test it, then do a resize and see if it still works
	[23:04] <lfaraone> Hey, there's a fix to example-content (the FLAC audio was poor, new version uploaded to the main bzr repo and accepted) in bug 208561, is there a way I can get some more attention from the main sponsors? (rc is out tomorrow, of course)
	[23:04] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 208561 in example-content "Speex Audio file is a non-ideal bit-rate" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208561
	[23:05] <persia> lfaraone, RC is frozen now for image testing. It is exceedingly unlikely to be changed for RC. It may be reviewed post-RC if considered release critical.
	[23:05] <lfaraone> persia: Well, it represents ubuntu poorly.
	[23:06] <lfaraone> persia: wait, we're testing the rc before we release it for testing :)
	[23:06] <lfaraone> ?
	[23:06] <persia> Yes. Every milestone image (Alpha, Beta, RC) gets a couple days of testing to make sure that it isn't completely broken, and is a good basis for widespread testing.
	[23:07] <lfaraone> persia: (By that, we're supposed to be showing off the best that free software / formats / ubuntu can offer)
	[23:07] <persia> There's a daily image every day, but depending on the state of the archives, it might not boot, or not install, or not run X, etc. By not uploading for a couple days, we can make sure that we have something worthy of testing.
	[23:08] <lfaraone> persia: Ok. I'm wondering if this would be considered release-critical. (reg. potential is low)
	[23:08] <calc> lfaraone: that reminds me i should fix up one of the OOo files in example-content as well
	[23:08] <calc> lfaraone: it uses invalid fonts and don't get replaced properly due to fc bugs
	[23:08] <calc> :\
	[23:09] <lfaraone> calc: lol.
	[23:10] <persia> lfaraone, You could certainly raise it to the release team, but if accepted, it will be post-RC (I hope, as otherwise there is even less sleep for many)
	[23:10] <lfaraone> persia: kk. How do I go about doing that?
	[23:11] <persia> lfaraone, Actually, I'm not sure who would be the best person to represent a candidate example-content fix to the release team. Maybe calc who seems to be contemplating another change to the same pacakge (and who you've already notified)
	[23:12] <calc> persia: i won't have time to work on it until i get done with testing images :\
	[23:13] <calc> i haven't fixed the document yet so i'll have to see how hard it is to fix
	[23:13] <lfaraone> calc: What's the probability of it being accepted? (so I can tell the uploader)
	[23:14] <calc> slangasek: ^
	[23:14] <calc> lfaraone: slangasek would know more than me
	[23:14] <lfaraone> calc: kk.
	[23:15] <persia> calc, I wouldn't expect you to :)
	[23:15] <calc> considering the document was written with an invalid font in the past sometime i am not sure what font i need to use to get it to layout right now
	[23:15] <calc> it was subsituted with something but not sure what
	[23:17] <james_w> pitti: would it be reasonable to roll the patch on 287723 in to the consolekit upload, or should that be an SRU?
	[23:23] <slangasek> lfaraone, calc: changes to example-content are low-risk and should be straightforward to verify; I'd be happy to take that speex file fix after RC
	[23:23] <slangasek> (didn't I see it in the queue already?)
	[23:24] <lfaraone> slangasek: cool, thanks!
	[23:28] <kees> slangasek: what's the best way to answer the question "is source package XYZ on any release media?" (i.e. I have an intrepid security update for moodle and I want to know if I should wait 1.5 weeks or upload it now)
	[23:28] <slangasek> lfaraone, calc: yes, the example-content fix is already in the unapproved queue and will be accepted after RC
	[23:29] <slangasek> kees: the best way to answer the question is to ask me to run a grep command on antimony :-P
	[23:29] <lfaraone> slangasek: coolio.
	[23:29] <slangasek> kees: moodle is in edubuntu
	[23:29] <kees> slangasek: can you grep for moodle on antimony? :)
	[23:29] <james_w> kees: I was just trying to write a script to do exactly that :-)
	[23:29] <calc> ok
	[23:29] <kees> james_w: yeah, it'd be handy
	[23:29] <kirkland> slangasek: sweet, what about "expect"?
	[23:30] <james_w> not sure if antimony has more information than we can piece together from elsewhere.
	[23:30] <kees> slangasek: okay... I will wait.
	[23:30] <slangasek> kees: not sure it follows that you have to wait?
	[23:30] <kees> slangasek: will you do a respin between RC and Final of edubuntu?
	[23:30] <slangasek> james_w: I'm just grepping /daily/current/*.{manifest,list}; the info is available elsewhere
	[23:30] <slangasek> just not as directly
	[23:31] <slangasek> kees: yes
	[23:31] <slangasek> kees: specifically, we should get WinFOSS off of there since it's not supported anymore
	[23:31] <kees> slangasek: okay, then should I upload it now, and you can accept it as you see fit, or should I wait to a specific time?
	[23:31] <james_w> thanks, now is obviously not the time to discuss it, but lets get something in ubuntu-dev-tools for next cycle.
	[23:31] <slangasek> kees: expect is on mythbuntu
	[23:31] <slangasek> kees: upload now is fine, that's what the unapproved queue is for :)
	[23:32] <kirkland> slangasek: expect was mine ;-)
	[23:32] <kees> slangasek: okay, thanks. done.
	[23:32] <kirkland> slangasek: thx
	[23:32] <superm1> slangasek, we're testing alternates tonight for mythbuntu, there was troubles with virtualbox hanging during install, but i'm blaming virtualbox at this point. will get back to you with results later
	[23:33] <calc> cjwatson: totally broken for me
	[23:34] <calc> doesn't even work for the single install case
	[23:34] <cjwatson> gosh. OK, I'll investigate, thanks
	[23:34] <calc> gave me the same no partitions found as with the lvm one
	[23:34] <slangasek> kirkland: expect is on mythbuntu
	[23:34] <slangasek> :)
	[23:34] <kirkland> slangasek: ;-) but not on the server?
	[23:34] <slangasek> nope - there's pexpect there, but not expect
	[23:35] <kirkland> slangasek: interesting, thanks.
	[23:35] <calc> cjwatson: and fdisk -l shows the partitions
	[23:35] <superm1> kirkland, you expecting to be breaking expect?
	[23:35] <cjwatson> yeah, it doesn't use fdisk though
	[23:35] <calc> cjwatson: ok, just stating that it is actually there although it doesn't see them
	[23:35] <kirkland> superm1: :-) no, i was considering adding a dependency on it
	[23:35] <cjwatson> calc: what does 'list-devices partition' say?
	[23:36] <calc> nothing
	[23:36] <superm1> kirkland, what dependency?
	[23:36] <cjwatson> that'll be it then. Wonder what that's about
	[23:36] <kirkland> superm1: there have been multiple people that have run ecryptfs-setup-private, and entered their login passphrase wrong. twice.
	[23:37] <calc> cjwatson: this is being tested on vmware 6.5, not sure if that will matter in the debugging
	[23:37] <kirkland> superm1: i need a method to verify their passphrase is correct. unix_chkpwd seems to be it, but it's proving more difficult to implement that i'd have though.
	[23:37] <cjwatson> calc: I'll let you know if I can't reproduce it
	[23:37] <calc> ok
	[23:37] <kirkland> superm1: so i have about 5 lines of expect code that takes their input password and tries to su to themself and run /bin/true
	[23:38] <calc> cjwatson: feel free to call me on my cell if i'm not around and you need more debugging
	[23:38] <cjwatson> ok
	[23:38] <calc> cjwatson: i may eat dinner in the next hour or so
	[23:38] <cjwatson> thanks
	[23:38] <superm1> kirkland, yeah it's a really nifty little tool
	[23:38] <kirkland> superm1: however, you just triggered a light bulb..........
	[23:38] <kirkland> superm1: what is?
	[23:38] <kirkland> superm1: expect?
	[23:38] <superm1> expect
	[23:39] <calc> cjwatson: i'm going to just redescribe my current rescue bug since it seems more general than i originally filed
	[23:39] <cjwatson> fine
	[23:40] <calc> list-devices disk outputs nothing as well
	[23:40] <calc> cd works
	[23:40] <calc> i think the others don't apply for my test vm
	[23:41] <calc> list-devices usb-partition works when i stick a thumb drive in
	[23:42] <calc> and list-devices partition also shows the usb thumb drive too (not sure if that is supposed to happen)
	[23:42] <cjwatson> basically seems to indicate that your disk driver isn't loaded
	[23:42] <calc> and disk shows the thumb drive
	[23:43] <calc> cjwatson: erm wouldn't that cause it to not show up in fdisk -l though if the kernel driver wasn't loaded?
	[23:43] <calc> or do you mean some other sort of driver
	[23:44] <sbeattie> pitti: when I try to run sudo in the guest session, I'm getting an apparmor rejection on capable for Xsession's profile
	[23:45] <sbeattie> I'm not sure it's a bug or intended behavior that guest session stuff can't run setuid programs.
	[23:48] <cjwatson> calc: well, you'd think so ... list-devices just looks in /sys/block/ basically
	[23:48] <calc> yea
	[23:48] <calc> i'm looking in the script to see if i can determine what is wrong
	[23:49] <cjwatson> list-devices partition is really just a reformatting of ls /sys/block//
	[23:49] <cjwatson> well, ish
	[23:49] <calc> well the sda1 etc are there in sys
	[23:50] <cjwatson> it does do filtering obviously
	[23:50] <calc> if i understand it is looking for /sys/block/sda/sda1/sys ?
	[23:50] <calc> or maybe i am misreading this code
	[23:50] <cjwatson> try 'udevadm info -q env -p /block/sda/sda1'
	[23:50] <cjwatson> and look for ID_TYPE
	[23:51] <calc> udevadm unknown command
	[23:51] <cjwatson> !
	[23:51] <ogra> woah
	[23:51] <calc> its there but it returns that as the response
	[23:51] <cjwatson> seriously? udevadm is in the d-i base system
	[23:51] <calc> i even tried /sbin/udevadm -q env -p /block/sda/sda1
	[23:52] <cjwatson> udevadm info
	[23:52] <cjwatson> ass I said above :)
	[23:52] <cjwatson> as
	[23:52] <calc> anything after the info?
	[23:52] <cjwatson> 23:50 <cjwatson> try 'udevadm info -q env -p /block/sda/sda1'
	[23:52] <calc> ah ok
	[23:53] <calc> that works
	[23:53] <calc> should i capture that for the bug report?
	[23:53] <calc> udevinfo outputs the same info
	[23:54] <cjwatson> udevinfo == udevadm info except for the way it's obsolete
	[23:54] <cjwatson> sure
	[23:55] <calc> ok
	[23:56] <calc> done
	[23:58] <calc> hmm there is no ID_TYPE