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=== TheMuso_ is now known as TheMuso |
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[02:47] <cathyal> im just wondering |
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[02:47] <cathyal> if things break in ubuntu |
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[02:47] <cathyal> do we always have to go into CLI to fix things |
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[02:54] <lifeless> depends how broken it is |
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[02:54] <lifeless> every operating system I know of has a CLI right at the very bottom :P |
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[02:55] <lifeless> ^ current |
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[02:55] <cathyal> And some you can use without ever having to open it up, others not so much. |
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[09:44] <AnAnt> Hello, can someone reply me on those bugs: 283330 & 281451 |
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[09:45] <AnAnt> 283330 is Texas Instruments PCI6411/6421/6611/6621/7411/7421/7611/7621 Secure Digital Controller not working properly |
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[09:46] <AnAnt> 281451 is uvesafb (and vesafb) does not support 1280x800 resolution for NVIDIA graphics adapters |
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[09:50] <amitk> AnAnt: uvesafb is no longer default. The next kernel will revert back to vesafb. |
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[09:56] <AnAnt> amitk: ok, vesafb has same problem |
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=== asac_ is now known as asac |
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=== amitk is now known as amitk-lunch |
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=== amitk-lunch is now known as amitk |
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[14:00] <amitk> rtg: so it has a physical switch to turn off the radios? and it is set to off? |
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[14:00] <rtg> amitk: it must be one of these slider switches on the front. |
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[14:02] <amitk> right |
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[14:02] <rtg> amitk: I'm booting it to be sure |
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[14:03] <rtg> amitk: yeah, that was it. |
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[14:05] <rtg> amitk: have you _ever_ gotten yours to hang? |
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[14:06] <amitk> rtg: you might be right about 3945 being the red herring. I just got it to hang again, right after sdhci and bt init |
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[14:06] <amitk> this was only the third time |
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[14:06] <rtg> amitk: with 3945 blacklisted? |
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[14:07] <amitk> nope |
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[14:07] <amitk> unfortunately i just reverted to the distro kernel instead of the instrumented one |
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[14:42] <Keybuk> [context] |
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[14:42] <Keybuk> have been looking at the iwl3945 problem |
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[14:42] <Keybuk> on my laptop, I have a kernel with most things compiled in |
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[14:42] <Keybuk> only "drivers" are not, and on my laptop, the only driver is the iwl3945 card |
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[14:42] <Keybuk> it still locks up from time-to-time |
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[14:42] <Keybuk> and the lock up is during udev module loading, not kernel |
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[14:43] <Keybuk> it's a Dell Latitude D420, not a Thinkpad |
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[14:43] <rtg> Keybuk: 32 bit? |
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[14:43] <amitk> Keybuk: another good data point if it isn't a thinkpad |
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[14:43] <Keybuk> 32-bit, aye |
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[14:44] <rtg> Keybuk: what happens if you compile in the 3945 ? I'll bet it stops hanging. |
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[14:44] <Keybuk> I did not try that :) |
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[14:45] <rtg> I can do that. How do I automate a reboot? |
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[14:45] <Keybuk> as in make your laptop continually reboot? |
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[14:45] <amitk> rtg: reboot in rc.local? |
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[14:45] <Keybuk> put it in rc.local? |
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[14:45] <rtg> does that give udev time to settle? |
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[14:45] <Keybuk> udev settles inside its own init script |
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[14:46] <Keybuk> if you're seeing the lock up some time after ... then that's a whole big important data point |
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[14:46] <rtg> Keybuk: exactly |
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[14:46] <Keybuk> err |
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[14:46] <Keybuk> rewind |
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[14:46] <Keybuk> you're seeing the lock-up after udev's init script has exited? |
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[14:46] <Keybuk> later on in the boot sequence? |
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[14:47] <rtg> Keybuk: mdz commented out the udevadm settle clause in restart on this laptop. |
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[14:47] <Keybuk> interesting |
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[14:47] <Keybuk> I must admit, mine is commented out too |
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[14:47] <Keybuk> when I put it back, the lock up doesn't hapepn |
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[14:48] <rtg> Keybuk: what does that do? |
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[14:48] <amitk> Keybuk: i would've expected it to be commented out in the start clause |
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[14:48] <Keybuk> then again |
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[14:48] <Keybuk> I call settle later on, and the only thing I do in the meantime is activate swap, fsck and mount the root disk |
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[14:49] <amitk> ..unless udev gets started in initramfs and the (re)started in rootfs |
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[14:50] <rtg> but what does 'settle' do? How does it alter the timing? |
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[14:50] <amitk> rtg: man udevadm says it makes sure the udev queue is empty |
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[14:51] <Keybuk> rtg: udev listens to kernel uevents |
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[14:51] <Keybuk> obviously by the time it's started, it's missed a *huge* number of them |
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[14:51] <Keybuk> so it "triggers" them again by walking /sys and writing "add" to all the uevent files |
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[14:51] <Keybuk> which makes the kernel send them again |
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[14:51] <Keybuk> so it ends up with a queue of events it needs to process |
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[14:51] <rtg> so in effect that means it waits for modules to finish loading before proceeding ? |
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[14:51] <Keybuk> "settle" does not exit until the kernel's event seqnum and udev's event seqnum are equal |
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[14:51] <Keybuk> err |
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[14:51] <Keybuk> kiiiiinda |
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[14:52] <Keybuk> it means that all of the devices that the kernel knew about when "trigger" were run, have at least had first-stage processing completed |
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[14:52] <Keybuk> this may involve loading modules, yes |
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[14:52] <Keybuk> and would wait for those modprobe commands to finish |
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[14:52] <Keybuk> *BUT* |
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[14:52] <Keybuk> loading those modules may have additional side-effects, such as further probing, further devices or interfaces showing up |
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[14:52] <Keybuk> and those may have yet more modules to load |
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[14:52] <Keybuk> settle may not wait for those |
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[14:53] <rtg> hmm, quite asynchronous (as it should be) |
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[14:55] <Keybuk> iwl3945 has no firmware? |
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[14:55] <amitk> it does |
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[14:55] <Keybuk> weird |
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[14:55] <Keybuk> I can't see the call for it |
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[14:56] <ajunior> exist a solution (patch) for e1000e driver? |
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[14:56] <rtg> its called ucode in the driver |
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[14:56] <Keybuk> oh |
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[14:56] <Keybuk> I thought all the firmware got separated out? |
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[14:56] <rtg> Keybuk: iwl3945_read_ucode() |
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[14:56] <Keybuk> there's a /lib/firmware/iwlwifi-3945-1.ucode after all |
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[14:56] <amitk> ajunior: fixed in the ubuntu tree. will be in next kernel. |
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[14:57] <Keybuk> rtg: right, that uses request_firmware() |
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[14:57] <Keybuk> my point is that I can't *see* that request from userspace |
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[14:57] <ajunior> TKS |
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[14:58] <rtg> Keybuk: I think thats not relevant. with rf-kill switch enabled the hang still happens. |
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[14:58] <Keybuk> well, firmware loading affects timings that's all |
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[14:58] <Keybuk> as in the modprobe will have to request a firmware |
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[14:58] <Keybuk> which is another udev event |
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[14:59] <Keybuk> which may affect settle (though shouldn't, because I think the modprobe blocks for it) |
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[14:59] <rtg> Keybuk: agreed. but it in this case it doesn't seem to make a difference. |
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[15:01] <Keybuk> no... |
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[15:01] <Keybuk> I'm just weirded out by the missing request :p |
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[15:02] <Keybuk> oh |
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[15:02] <Keybuk> no |
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[15:02] <Keybuk> I'm just being stupid |
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[15:02] <Keybuk> I see it now |
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[15:02] <Keybuk> I forgot that firmware now appears as $DEVPATH/firmware/$ID |
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[15:02] <Keybuk> rather than /sys/firmware |
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[15:02] <Keybuk> :p |
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[15:04] <Keybuk> could it be related to device renaming perhaps? |
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[15:05] <rtg> Keybuk: you mean eth1 --> wlan0 ? |
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[15:05] <Keybuk> swapping eth1 and eth0 |
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[15:05] <Keybuk> and yeah, renaming wlan0 to eth1 :p |
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[15:05] <rtg> Keybuk: that seems like a something the nested lock checking would catch. |
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[15:06] <rtg> its an rtnl lock |
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[15:06] <amitk> there was a related renaming isse queued for the stable tree that I pulled in: 7b54c00efa87f519ae30f09bdbb11aaf6644605f |
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[15:06] <Keybuk> we don't call ifup on the device unless it's in /e/n/i (it isn't for me) and that's only after the device appears |
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[15:06] <Keybuk> could it be something network manager is doing on the device? |
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[15:07] <Keybuk> though that is quite late in the boot relatively |
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[15:07] <rtg> Keybuk: the hang happens long before X starts, so no NM in play. |
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[15:08] <Keybuk> NM starts in userspace first |
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[15:08] <Keybuk> rc2/S28 |
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[15:08] <rtg> hmm, ok |
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[15:09] <Keybuk> my really stripped down boot replicates it, you see |
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[15:09] <Keybuk> that is |
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[15:09] <Keybuk> udevd |
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[15:09] <Keybuk> trigger |
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[15:09] <rtg> amitk: I have that commit in my test kernel. |
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[15:09] <Keybuk> swapon -a -e |
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[15:09] <Keybuk> fsck / |
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[15:09] <Keybuk> mount / |
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[15:10] <Keybuk> update mtab, make tmp directories |
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[15:10] <Keybuk> udev settle |
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[15:10] <Keybuk> start dbus |
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[15:10] <Keybuk> start hal |
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[15:10] <Keybuk> start gdm |
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[15:10] <Keybuk> ifup -a |
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[15:10] <Keybuk> start NM |
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[15:11] <Keybuk> -- |
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[15:12] <rtg> Keybuk: can you get the kernel to trigger a stack dump or anything? |
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[15:13] <rtg> mine locks so hard that caps-lock light is wedged. |
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[15:14] <Keybuk> no :-/ |
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[15:15] <rtg> Keybuk: do you mind getting stuck with this bug? I've gotta send David's laptop back to him pretty soon. |
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[15:15] <rtg> plus, I'm a bit out of my depth. |
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[15:16] <Keybuk> "getting stuck" ? |
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[15:16] <rtg> Keybuk: how else should I phrase it? I'm assigned to it in LP. |
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[15:18] <Keybuk> I don't mind helping debug in spare time, but I don't really have enough free time to devote myself to it :-/ |
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[15:19] <rtg> Keybuk: I think if we work around it by delaying the i3945 module load, we can side step the issue for now. I believe it _will_ come back to haunt us during our effort to improve boot times. |
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[15:19] <Keybuk> delaying how? |
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[15:19] <rtg> insert a 5 second delay in the modprob entry. |
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[15:20] <Keybuk> it's not clear to me that it's actually racing anything but itself |
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[15:20] <Keybuk> sleep 5 would just extend the udevsettle by 5s too :p |
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[15:20] <rtg> Keybuk: I am quite sure its not an issue with the i3945 driver, at least not directly. Jamie can reproduce it with ipw2200. |
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[15:22] <Keybuk> what else do you think it is? |
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[15:22] <Keybuk> \o/ |
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[15:22] <Keybuk> just got it without "quiet" ;) |
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[15:23] <AnAnt> Hello, can someone look at those bugs: 283330 & 281451 |
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[15:23] <rtg> I've seen the i3945 complete its initialization before hanging. with rf-kill enabled, thats the last thing that happens in that device driver. hangs occur randomly during and after i3945 module loading. |
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[15:24] <Keybuk> rf-kill enabled? |
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[15:24] <rtg> Keybuk: the little slider switch that disables wireless. |
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[15:25] <Keybuk> right, that's disabled for me |
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[15:25] <Keybuk> ie. radio is on |
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[15:25] <AnAnt> I have reported a bug similar to 283330 last year (111756), yet I never got any response about it yet |
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[15:25] <rtg> ok, the other way around. |
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[15:25] <Keybuk> first hang was after |
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[15:26] <Keybuk> iwl3945 0000:0c:00.0: PCI INT A -> GSI 17 (level, low) -> IRQ 17 |
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[15:26] <Keybuk> second hang had two more messages |
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[15:26] <Keybuk> iwl3945: Detected Intel Wireless WiFi Link 3945ABG |
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[15:26] <Keybuk> iwl3945: Tunable channels: 13 802.11bg, 23 802.11a channels |
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[15:26] <Keybuk> so it's not quite happening at the same point each time |
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[15:27] <rtg> Keybuk: I've found that with wireless 'enabled' the hang happens less often. Its about 50/50 with wireless disabled. |
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[15:27] <rtg> and it definitely happens at different points in the boot sequence. |
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[15:28] <Keybuk> right |
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[15:28] <Keybuk> but I've elimated that from my tests |
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[15:28] <Keybuk> it is entirely unrelated to any software alongside |
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[15:28] <Keybuk> I get the hang with only the modprobe :p |
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[15:29] <rtg> so, you're saying it really _is_ the i3945 driver? |
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[15:29] <Keybuk> it looks like it to me |
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[15:30] <rtg> what about the ipw2200 data point? |
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[15:30] <Keybuk> what's the other network card in the Thinkpad? |
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[15:30] <rtg> e1000e |
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[15:30] <Keybuk> tg3 here |
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[15:33] <AnAnt> bdmurray: there you are |
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[15:34] <Keybuk> rtg: am trying loading only the 3945 driver in isolation repeatedly |
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[15:34] <Keybuk> so far, it doesn't hang |
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[15:34] <Keybuk> which is interesting |
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[15:35] <rtg> Keybuk: if you're really sure its i3945, then that lends credence to my suspicion that its hardware related. Perhaps its some kind of PCI bus setup issue? |
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[15:36] <Keybuk> well, I'm confused as to what else it could be |
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[15:37] <rtg> The Hardy driver is quite different. Jamie was unable to reproduce this hang with 2.6.26-5.17-generic, all subsequent released _did_ hang. |
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[15:37] <amitk> Keybuk: lool has already tried the modprobe/modprobe -r test on the 3945 over 700 times. Couldn't reproduce it. |
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[15:38] <Keybuk> amitk: yeah |
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[15:38] <Keybuk> that's downright weird |
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[15:40] <Ng> I forget if I asked this before, but is there any display corruption ever? |
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[15:41] <rtg> Ng: related to this hang? |
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[15:41] <Keybuk> it seems like it only hangs if udev calls modprobe ?! |
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[15:42] <Ng> rtg: yeah |
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[15:42] <rtg> Ng: I've never noticed any. |
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[15:42] <Ng> ok, 'cos my random boot hang that does have corruption seems to happen shortly after iwl4965 loads |
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[15:42] <Ng> well, iwlagn now, but whatever |
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[15:44] <rtg> I wonder if this is something we ought to solicit Intel's help with? |
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[15:45] <Ng> err no wait I'm on crack, it's intel_agp that's implicated in mine. As you were ;) |
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[15:51] <NCommander> amitk, ping, if you get this before you commit my patch |
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[15:52] <amitk> NCommander: done |
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[15:52] <rtg> Keybuk: would you comment in #263059 why you think its driver related. I'm not exactly sure how you've come to that conclusion. In the meantime I've gotta get this laptop shipped. |
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[15:52] <Keybuk> well |
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[15:53] <Keybuk> I don't get the hang if I don't load this driver ;) |
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[15:53] <rtg> I agree with that, but its not conclusive. |
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[15:53] <Keybuk> I *think* it has something to do with the interface being renamed |
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[15:54] <Keybuk> that always seems to be the last thing that happens before the hang |
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[15:55] <rtg> well, I have a little time. I'll instrument that code. its pretty straightforward IIRC. |
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[15:55] <Keybuk> and if I disable that rule in udev, I haven't had the hang yet |
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[15:55] <rtg> Keybuk: I don't read udev very well. which rule is that? |
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[15:55] <Keybuk> the persistent-net ones |
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[15:56] <Keybuk> you need to remove the 7x one that has the rule |
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[15:56] <Keybuk> and the 6x one to stop the rule coming back |
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[15:56] <Keybuk> what's ecb(arc4) ? |
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[15:57] <rtg> dunno |
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[15:57] <elmo> crypto stuff |
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[15:58] <Keybuk> hmm |
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[15:58] <rtg> Keybuk: which 60* rule are you talking about? Can't see anything net related. |
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[15:59] <Keybuk> sorry |
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[15:59] <Keybuk> 75-persistent-net-generator.rules |
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[15:59] <Keybuk> and 70-persistent-net.rules |
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[16:00] <rtg> 75-persistent-net-generator.rules whitelists eth and wlan, so won't they be ignored? |
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[16:00] <Keybuk> I just moved the files out of the way :p |
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[16:01] <rtg> are these rules created during install according to installed HW ? |
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[16:02] <Keybuk> each boot |
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[16:02] <Keybuk> though I just ruled that out |
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[16:02] <Keybuk> finally got one to hang without them |
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[16:02] <Keybuk> they were just adding time |
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[16:02] <rtg> hmm, dead-end |
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[16:03] <Keybuk> this is baffling |
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[16:03] <Keybuk> it did: |
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[16:03] <Keybuk> modprobe tg3 (for eth0) |
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[16:03] <Keybuk> seems to have finished |
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[16:03] <Keybuk> iwl3945 messages |
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[16:03] <Keybuk> Tunable channels blah |
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[16:03] <Keybuk> modprobe ecb(arc4) |
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[16:04] <Keybuk> iwl3945 0000:0c:00.0: PCI INT A disabled |
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[16:04] <Keybuk> *hang* |
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[16:04] <rtg> so, it didn't make it to the device rename. |
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[16:04] <Keybuk> I didn't include the device renaming stuff |
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[16:05] <Keybuk> so it would never try |
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[16:05] <rtg> by the time you see 'iwl3945 0000:0c:00.0: PCI INT A disabled', the module inti is complete. |
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[16:09] <Keybuk> do you get the hang if you disable the e1000 from loading? |
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[16:10] <rtg> Keybuk: lemme try. |
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[16:13] <rtg> Keybuk: still locks up |
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[16:15] <Keybuk> ooooh |
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[16:15] <Keybuk> "Dazed and confused, but trying to continue" |
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[16:21] <Keybuk> the full error message of that |
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[16:21] <Keybuk> Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason b1 on CPU 0. |
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[16:21] <Keybuk> You have some hardware problem, likely on the PCI bus. |
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[16:22] <Keybuk> Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. |
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[16:22] <Keybuk> -- |
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[16:22] <rtg> Keybuk: my feeling exactly |
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[16:22] <Keybuk> while loading the iwl3945 driver |
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[16:22] <Keybuk> rtg: you think this is a hardware problem? |
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[16:22] <rtg> its certainly hardwar'ish |
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[16:23] <Keybuk> I tend to doubt that hypothesis |
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[16:23] <Keybuk> because the hardware in question isn't even one piece, but across multiple types of laptop |
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[16:23] <Keybuk> and its only *this* driver that triggers it |
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[16:23] <Keybuk> or, at least, this family of drivers :p |
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[16:24] <rtg> Keybuk: could be the family of PCI interface chips used in these adapters. |
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[16:24] <Keybuk> why would it only occur now, with 2.6.27 ? |
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[16:24] <Keybuk> and why only when loading the iwl* driver alongside another driver |
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[16:24] <Keybuk> sounds much more like the driver is failing to correctly lock out the PCI bus to me |
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[16:25] <rtg> Keybuk: whats the other driver? I disabled e1000e and it still happened. |
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[16:25] <Keybuk> any pci driver fwict |
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[16:25] <Keybuk> both tg3 and the pcmcia socket adapter seem to do it for me |
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[16:25] <Keybuk> but only when combined with iwl |
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[16:25] <rtg> Keybuk: that kind of makes sense. |
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[16:26] <Keybuk> that's why the modprobe loop doesn't work |
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[16:26] <Keybuk> you're only loading/unloading iwl3945 |
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[16:26] <Keybuk> but if you load two drivers at once, you get the hang or crash |
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[16:26] <rtg> which 2? |
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[16:26] <Keybuk> (I'm doing while true; do modprobe iwl3945 & modprobe tg3; done) |
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[16:26] <rtg> and that hangs? |
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[16:26] <Keybuk> yeah |
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[16:27] <Keybuk> and if it doesn't hang, I get that cute error message sometimes ;) |
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[16:27] <rtg> are you unloading them first? |
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[16:27] <Keybuk> yes |
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[16:27] <rtg> outstanding. |
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[16:27] <rtg> finally, got it to do something. |
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[16:28] <rtg> or you did, rather. |
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[16:29] <rtg> Keybuk: so, I should look at the difference between Hardy and Intrepid start-up. |
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[16:29] <Keybuk> what's the difference between the drivers? |
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[16:30] <rtg> Keybuk: in Intrepid the i3945 init is seperate from the other iwl drivers. They were more common in Hardy. Beyond taht I'll have to study them a bit before I know more. |
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[16:31] <NCommander> does anyone else here work on the lpia kernel beside ScottK and amitk who can answer some questions? |
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[16:31] * ScottK declaims all knowledge of anything in the kernel and suspects that maybe NCommander is thinking of persia. |
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[16:32] <NCommander> we |
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[16:32] <NCommander> StevenK |
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[16:32] <NCommander> Damn autocomplete |
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[16:32] <NCommander> *er |
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[16:33] <Keybuk> yeah |
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[16:33] <Keybuk> a dozen times now, have the hang just with the modprobe loop with two modules in it |
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[16:33] <Keybuk> all I have running is udev (no rename rules or anything - and can't see any side-effects with --debug on) |
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[16:34] <Keybuk> even the filesystem isn't writable, and no swap mapped |
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[16:35] <rtg> Keybuk: get that stuff in the bug report please. Its gonna be key in finding root cause. |
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[16:35] <Keybuk> bug# ? |
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[16:36] <rtg> Keybuk: 263059. |
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[16:37] <rtg> Keybuk: one of the major differences that I see right off is that the PCI device is disabled at the end of the probe in Intrepid, whereas its left enabled in Hardy. |
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[16:43] <Keybuk> weird |
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[16:43] <Keybuk> ifconfig eth1 up |
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[16:43] <Keybuk> SIOCSIFFLAGS: No such device |
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[16:44] <rtg> Keybuk: you should boot Hardy and see if you can still reproduce it. |
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[16:44] <Keybuk> this is just with a normal boot trying to get my debugging info out :p |
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[16:45] <Keybuk> oh |
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[16:45] <Keybuk> had the kill switch on |
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[16:45] <Keybuk> heh heh heh |
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[16:45] <rtg> borked, huh? |
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[16:45] <Keybuk> PEBCAK |
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[17:11] <rtg> Keybuk: you mean no lspci? |
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[17:11] <Keybuk> no, lspci is still there |
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[17:11] <Keybuk> sysfs is still there |
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[17:11] <Keybuk> it's even still listed in ifconfig |
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[17:11] <Keybuk> but any ioctl return -ENODEV |
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[17:12] <Keybuk> and the dmesg implies the interrupts are disabled |
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[17:12] <rtg> Keybuk: in fact, the interrupt isn't even assigned if rf-kill is enabled. |
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[17:12] <Keybuk> so it's in a state I'm not familiar with ;) |
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[17:13] <rtg> Keybuk: yeah, the last thing the driver does is pci_disable_device() |
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[17:14] <Keybuk> but it enables it later if the kill switch is off? |
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[17:14] <Keybuk> or does it not call pci_disable_device() if the kill switch is off? |
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[17:15] <rtg> if wireless is enabled (i.e., kill switch is off), then pci_enable_device() is called at if-up time. |
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[17:15] <rtg> this is a change in behavior from Hardy. |
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[17:16] <Keybuk> I'm wondering whether there's some invalid state going on based on the kill switch status |
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[17:16] <Keybuk> and if the switch is off, the invalid state lasts _less_ time than when it's on |
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[17:16] <Keybuk> and while in that invalid state, other pci drivers can hang the system |
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[17:16] <rtg> you can't get this to happen if kill-switch is off? |
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[17:16] <Keybuk> I can, just much less so |
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[17:16] <Keybuk> which to me implies the time window of the hang is less if the switch is off |
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[17:16] <Keybuk> when it's on, it's much more regular |
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[17:17] <rtg> well, there is certainly less code in the driver being executed when the switch is on. |
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[17:42] <trenton_> Apologies if I intrude, but have run out of options. I'm trying to get 2.6.27 on hardy is this posible? Without compiling that is. |
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[17:43] <rtg> trenton_: kernel-ppa |
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[17:43] <rtg> https://edge.launchpad.net/~kernel-ppa/+archive |
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[17:43] <trenton_> rtg: thanks |
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