2008/06/26/#launchpad.txt

[00:01] <emgent> kiko: around ?
[00:01] <kiko> emgent, yeah?
[00:01] <emgent> kiko: can i talk with you little bit in query?
[00:01] <kiko> emgent, yeah, though I'm a bit busy
=== asac_ is now known as asac
[00:26] <mathiaz> Hi - I'm trying to setup a cvs import of openldap in launchpad. The information on https://launchpad.net/openldap/main is correct. However the import status is set to Test Failed. What should I do to get the import fixed ?
[00:41] <kiko> mathiaz, well, let me convert it to new-style first, but check https://help.launchpad.net/VcsImportRequests
[01:02] <blueyed> Can you throw more hardware at launchpad.net?
[01:07] <kiko> blueyed, depends on what. what's bothering you? 
[01:08] <kiko> mathiaz, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/openldap/main
[01:09] <blueyed> kiko: I find launchpad.net often very slow.. no parts of it in particular, but code.launchpad.net is often even slower..
[01:09] <mathiaz> kiko: awesome - thanks :)
[01:09] <kiko> blueyed, edge or non-edge?
[01:09] <blueyed> I would just like to see *.launchpad.net getting snappier.
[01:09] <blueyed> kiko: edge
[01:10] <kiko> blueyed, we've been doing nothing but profiling and improving things over the past 2 weeks :)
[01:10] <blueyed> great!!
[01:10] <kiko> this next release won't be that much better, but in 2 releases we will be really great
[01:10] <blueyed> is there a difference between edge and "live" in hardware?
[01:10] <kiko> nope. only software.
[01:10] <kiko> one big issue will be fixed for 1.2.6 though, which is serving images and other static content from a front-end
[01:10] <blueyed> sweet. thanks!
[01:11] <kiko> we do that for some content (icing) but not for most of the inline content (stuff under /@@)
[01:11] <blueyed> kiko: I've noticed some months ago that you may improve performance a lot by allowing the browser to cache the content (which is more strict on ssl by default)
[01:12] <blueyed> kiko: just sending some http header would be enough - I'll have to look it up again, though.
[01:13] <kiko> blueyed, I think we do allow content-caching, but perhaps something's regressed. if you can give me a hint, I'll look into it
=== kiko is now known as kiko-zzz
[01:18] <blueyed> kiko: I think you should send "Cache-Control: public" for static files, which would at least allow FF3 to cache those..
=== salgado is now known as salgado-brb
[02:17]  * wgrant will be interested to see how much faster the API will be than the web UI.
=== salgado-brb is now known as salgado-afk
[03:21] <wgrant> The new bug page looks rather cluttered.
[03:21] <wgrant> And there's an awful lot of wasted space.
[04:30] <wgrant> Hmmmmm, gandwana is sending email with timestamps an hour later than reality, it seems. Or at least for new subscriptions.
[04:31] <wgrant> Looks like it's ignoring the fact it's now UTC+1...
[05:33] <Hobbsee> ooh, strike.
[05:35] <Hobbsee> kiko-zzz: who should get the feedback about the new edge?
[05:38] <jamesh> bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad should
[05:38] <jamesh> Hobbsee: what's the problem?
[05:39] <Hobbsee> jamesh: no problems, per se - just some comments on the design of it
[05:39] <Hobbsee> and suggestions of making it a little more...damn.  forgotten the word i want here.
[05:39] <Hobbsee> cohesive is what i'm thinking, but i don't think that's right.
[05:40] <jamesh> phew.  my changes in the new edge rollout aren't design related
[05:40] <jamesh> :)
[05:40] <Hobbsee> jamesh: nah, it's not you, i don't think :)
[05:40] <wgrant> Less cluttered and space-wasting at the same time?
[05:40] <jamesh> for the bugs page, the aim is that the actions menu on the left will go completely
[05:40] <Hobbsee> jamesh: i can see that :)
[05:40] <jamesh> so it does duplicate things for now, but that is temporary
[05:41] <Hobbsee> wgrant: i don't see overly much space wasting there.
[05:41] <Hobbsee> jamesh: i don't see an actions panel on the new edge now, btw.
[05:41] <jamesh> looks like it has gone now.
[05:41] <jamesh> I think the aim is to remove the left margin portlets completely
[05:41] <jamesh> (integrating them into the main page)
[05:41] <wgrant> Hobbsee: The CVE list wastes space. There is lots of space to the left of the 'Update description / tags'..
[05:42] <wgrant> jamesh: So the subscribers list will push useful content even further out of view. Even better.
[05:42] <Hobbsee> wgrant: ah yes, the cve bit was one that i was going to comment on
[05:43] <Hobbsee> yeah, i see what you mean
[05:43] <jamesh> wgrant: I think the subscriber list is meant to go next to some other bits
[05:43] <wgrant> IMO the release nomination link should also be next to each root task, too.
[05:43] <jamesh> Hobbsee/wgrant: please give mpt your feedback though.
[05:44] <wgrant> I think most of the metadata should be kept out of the main content pane.
[05:45] <wgrant> jamesh: I don't think it's possible to fit the subscribers list on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/47768 into the content pane.
[05:45] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 47768 in initramfs-tools "Mount Root Files System Failed" [Critical,Confirmed] 
[05:45] <wgrant> Without annoying a lot of people.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> wgrant: putting the subscribers list at the bottom, or at least, not at the top, was going to be one of my suggestions too.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> which doesn't quite make it so much of a problem
[05:46] <jamesh> wgrant: by the look of it, the list will be to the right, beside the bug description and comments
[05:46] <jamesh> I guess comments will go to full width at the end of the subscriber list
[05:47] <wgrant> jamesh: Oh, so this is all designed but invisible to the users! woot.
[05:47] <jamesh> wgrant: I don't think it has been implemented yet.
[05:48] <wgrant> jamesh: Right, but it might be a little better to request comments on the design, rather than on an incomplete implementation.
[05:48] <wgrant> Which is going to be pushed out to everybody in a few days.
[05:49] <Hobbsee> wgrant: release early, release often?
[05:49] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Perhaps, but also release parts of the specs for user-facing features before they appear on production.
[05:49] <jamesh> wgrant: the intention was to get this up on edge a lot sooner
[05:49] <Hobbsee> wgrant: oh i know :)
[05:50] <wgrant> jamesh: I'm aware. But this is a general problem.
[05:50] <wgrant> Designing things, and pushing them out, without ever asking if they're useful, or if the UI looks like it has been hit by a train.
[05:51] <Hobbsee> wgrant: methinks you're bugging the wrong person about that
[05:51] <jamesh> some of infrastructure changes I did made edge updates problematic (now fixed though)
[05:51] <Hobbsee> wgrant: although you're very, very correct.
[08:01] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[08:01] <lifeless> where?
[08:02] <mpt> Everywhere that's morning
[08:05] <wgrant> Does somebody here have the power to poke gandwana and work out why it is falsifying mail timestamps?
[08:08] <wgrant> It's generally a fairly annoying thing for it to do.
[08:09] <mpt> wgrant, I removed the "CVE References" heading when there are none, and moved the "Update description / tags" to the left, but it looks like those changes got reverted
=== RAOF_ is now known as RAOF
[08:11] <wgrant> mpt: Interesting.
[08:12] <mpt> wgrant, actually, no, I think it's just that edge is using a version before those changes
[08:12] <wgrant> (although I do generally deal with bugs with CVEs, so might not have noticed even if they weren't)
[08:12] <wgrant> Ahh.
[08:13] <mpt> so they will be in the next release
[08:13] <wgrant> Hopefully.
[08:14] <wgrant> Shouldn't the 'Nominate for release' link be on the master task for a project/distro, as it's an action on that task?
[08:14] <mpt> Yah, edge is running revision 6532, and my fixes were later than that
[08:14] <mpt> Heyyyy, that's a good idea
[08:14] <wgrant> Although I guess it doesn't make sense now due to some other bugs.
[08:15] <mpt> Which other bugs?
[08:15]  * wgrant pulls them up.
[08:16] <wgrant> Well, while the page loads... basically, the release nomination applies to the entire bug, which is wrong.
[08:16] <wgrant> Bug #110195, for example.
[08:16] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 110195 in malone "Nomination for a release on one source package shouldn't affect any others" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110195
[08:17] <wgrant> Moving the link to where I suggested would make that UI easy, though.
[08:17] <wgrant> It's very difficult in the current or old setup.
[08:18] <mpt> ok
[08:19] <wgrant> Why somebody decided that release nominations operate at a bug and not task level, I don't know.
[08:27] <persia> I've a use case involving an SRU where that is broken, if it helps as input.
[08:27] <wgrant> persia: LaserJock gave a nice security example on that bug.
[08:28] <persia> Excellent.
[08:28] <wgrant> persia: Though more examples are always good.
[08:30] <wgrant> I can't see how it could possibly be easier to implement it how it is now. The existence of bug #162411 shows that it's all stored separately anyway.
[08:30] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 162411 in malone "Cannot target a task to a release if another task already targetted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162411
=== prateeksaxena is now known as prtk
[08:50] <\sh> hmm...where do I add "Milestone Entries" for reports?
[08:54] <wgrant> \sh: You mean target it to a milestone?
[08:54] <wgrant> mpt: How do I explain this without mentioning tasks?
[08:54] <Hobbsee> why can't i sort by published time for the ppa archive pagse?
[08:54] <Hobbsee> i can for the queues.
[08:55] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Because you haven't filed a bug about it, I guess.
[08:55] <Hobbsee> wgrant: sigh.  but i don't want to wait 6 months.
[08:55] <wgrant> It's not going to be any quicker if you don't file it.
[08:56] <wgrant> I hope.
[08:56] <mpt> wgrant, you target a bug to a project milestone by clicking on the name of the project, and using the "Milestone" menu
[08:56] <mpt> Is that what you mean?
[08:56]  * Hobbsee grumbles at launchpad.
[08:56] <wgrant> mpt: That works.
[08:56] <wgrant> \sh: See what mpt said.
[08:56] <mpt> \sh, ^^^
[08:57] <wgrant> mpt: Actually, won't clicking on the name of the project take you somewhere else? Like, the project page?
[08:58] <\sh> wgrant: well, yes and no...I want to target something to a milestone...but there are no milestones yet...how do I add those milestones?
[08:58] <wgrant> \sh: AHa.
[08:59]  * wgrant checks.
[08:59] <wgrant> I think you have to create one under a release or series.
[09:00] <wgrant> \sh: There's an 'Add milestone' link in the actions menu of a project series.
[09:00] <\sh> https://edge.launchpad.net/leonov ok...series is just for shortcuts of branches
[09:00] <wgrant> There are more purposes for a series, but that is what they're largely used for at the moment.
[09:01] <\sh> ah...
[09:01] <\sh> now
[09:01] <\sh> that's really hiding
[09:01] <Hobbsee> mpt: why oh why is the activity log reported 20 ours ago by whoever, not the bug?
[09:02] <wgrant> Hobbsee: I commented in one of my bugs that it was badly named and placed.
[09:02] <Hobbsee> wgrant: are bugs really going to help there?
[09:02] <Hobbsee> you'd probably do better with a list, and keeping on giving it on irc when the responsible people wake up :P
[09:03] <wgrant> Hobbsee: They help more than other things, in my experience.
[09:03] <wgrant> Simply complaining on IRC will often yield a somewhat less positive outcome.
[09:05] <wgrant> \sh: Oh dear, you've used series very strangely in leonov.
[09:06] <wgrant> That would probably work better as a project group, but Launchpad doesn't model your situation well.
[09:06] <wgrant> IMO
[09:06] <wgrant> Or are they actually branches of the same codebase?
[09:07] <\sh> wgrant: TBH, I'm using the series feature as bzr shortcuts which works quite well ;()
[09:07] <wgrant> But with different focuses until they're more mature?
[09:07] <\sh> wgrant: and they are branches of the same codebase...
[09:07] <\sh> wgrant: right :)
[09:07] <wgrant> Ah, so that's not too terrible, then.
[09:07] <wgrant> Though they're still not really distinct series.
[09:08] <\sh> wgrant: actually, there should be something else then "series" when you want something like lp:<project>/<branch> and not: lp:~<team|user>/<project>/<branch>
[09:09] <mpt> Hobbsee, the activity log placement is also fixed in my more recent changes
[09:10] <Hobbsee> mpt: excellent!
[09:11] <mpt> wgrant, Hobbsee, see <https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/3> for an idea of the changes that haven't appeared on edge yet
[09:11] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 3 in rosetta "Custom information for each translation team" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
[09:12] <mpt> \sh, I hope to soon include an explicit "Milestone" column in the table, which will make it more obvious
[09:13] <Hobbsee> mpt: why are some of the options spread across the page, yet others across the page with only a small space in between?
[09:14] <wgrant> And why don't the top items have icons?
[09:14] <\sh> mpt:  :) btw..are you doing still usability work / UI work for gnome or gtk in general? I would need someone who checks our "Leonov" gtk ui for usability issues 
[09:14] <mpt> \sh, yes I am
[09:14] <wgrant> And what is the difference between the search on the left and the search on the top? (I know, but it's confusing)
[09:14] <mpt> \sh, what's Leonov?
[09:14] <wgrant> And why is the 'Show all open bugs' duplicated?
[09:15] <\sh> mpt: you don't know what Leonov is? launchpad.net/leonov :)
[09:15] <\sh> mpt: it will be "THE " launchpad desktop client ;)
[09:15] <mpt> wgrant, the search confusion is also fixed in upcoming changes (bug 182014)
[09:15] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 182014 in launchpad "launchpad's search interfaces are confusing" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182014
[09:16]  * Hobbsee stabs this subscribers list.
[09:16] <Hobbsee> who's idea was it to stick it at the top, i wonder...
[09:16] <mpt> \sh, neat!
[09:16] <Hobbsee> keeping the panel showing the latest release, uploaded by, maintained by, etc, would be smarter.
[09:16] <mpt> Hobbsee, we're replacing that panel with tooltips on every package
[09:16] <mpt> but not just yet
[09:17]  * Hobbsee twitches
[09:17] <mpt> We discussed this earlier, remember
[09:17] <wgrant> Hobbsee: It's OK as long as the subscribers list isn't epic like it in Ubuntu. But that's the only place it needs to be small. Oh dear.
[09:17] <Hobbsee> i know, but it wasn't this unreadable before.
[09:17] <mpt> Hobbsee, bug 152878
[09:17] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 152878 in malone "Source package details box hampers bug page context-independence" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152878
[09:17] <mpt> It was working wonderfully for me, but apparently it was causing performance problems
[09:18] <\sh> mpt: yepp :)
[09:18] <mpt> so it won't be in the next release
[09:18] <mpt> maybe the one after
[09:18] <wgrant> mpt: On huge bugs only?
[09:18] <mpt> wgrant, what on huge bugs only?
[09:18]  * mpt ducks a dragonfly
[09:18] <Hobbsee> mpt: it currently still violates the principle of "put the most important information towards the top of the page, and decrease in importance from there" though.
[09:19] <Hobbsee> mpt: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sugar-journal-activity/+bug/242237 isn't a "big bug" per se, yet the panel is still very annoying.
[09:19] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 242237 in sugar-journal-activity "Please sync sugar-journal-activity 92-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] 
[09:19] <jamesh> Hobbsee: so you think we should have a banner ad at the top?
[09:19] <Hobbsee> jamesh: for what, sorry?
[09:19] <wgrant> mpt: The performance regressions.
[09:19] <mpt> Hobbsee, but it's always been like that, right?
[09:20] <jamesh> important information
[09:20] <wgrant> As surely single-task bugs would have only the current number of queries.
[09:20] <jamesh> ads make money => they are important
[09:21] <wgrant> mpt: It wasn't so critical before bug #241150.
[09:21] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 241150 in malone "Structural subscription list has become an unwieldy and irreducable feature of bug pages" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241150
[09:21] <mpt> wgrant, ah, I see. Currently there's a box just for the package for the context you're in. The tooltip would have been available for every package the bug was filed against, regardless of whether you were in that context or not (yay). It was that multiplication that caused the performance problem.
[09:21] <Hobbsee> jamesh: i'd be careful not to change too much of the UI at the same time (people are still attempting to use launchpad here, and hate resorting to firefox page search every time they want to find something), but i think that's mpt's plan, yes.  and it's probably a good one.
[09:21] <mpt> wgrant, so the answer is, only on bug reports filed against many packages.
[09:21] <wgrant> mpt: That's what I meant by huge bugs, right.
[09:21] <Hobbsee> mpt: that bug report is filed on *one* package.  are you telling me that it does not suffer from 241150?
[09:22] <mpt> Hobbsee, I wasn't telling you anything right at the moment
[09:23] <mpt> Hobbsee, but since the source package details box is due to disappear soon, I doubt it's worth moving it above the subscribers list just for a few weeks.
[09:23] <Hobbsee> mpt: oh, i mixed up the statements about single-task bugs.  my apologies.
[09:24]  * Hobbsee ponders that.
[09:25] <Hobbsee> mpt: i guess.  i guess i was hoping to see launchpad become more usable w.r.t. that panel, even for those few weeks.
[09:26] <Hobbsee> i can see your argument, but i can't really agree with it - as you're about to move the information in that panel into greater prominance anyway
[09:26] <wgrant> Hobbsee: GreaseMonkey it.
[09:26] <Hobbsee> wgrant: i do.  but as you say in your bug, ti's a pain when i do want to see the subscriptions.
[09:26] <Hobbsee> and greasemonkey isn't a solution for everyone.
[09:27] <wgrant> Hobbsee: I'm thinking I might write a Greasemonkey thing to contract the implicit subscriptions.
[09:27] <mpt> hmmmm
[09:27] <Hobbsee> wgrant: i'd appreciate a link to that, if you do.
[09:27] <wgrant> Of course.
[09:27] <mpt> Maybe implicit subscriptions should be in a collapsed-by-default section inside the Subscribers box
[09:28] <wgrant> mpt: That would be excellent.
[09:28] <wgrant> Did I suggest that in the bug? I forget.
[09:28] <mpt> if there are >n of them where n ≈ 20
[09:28] <Hobbsee> wgrant: that being said, i'm suspecting i'll stop using launchpad for a couple of months for anything serious, just so I don't have to go thru the frustration of finding things (fi they still remain) every couple of weeks.
[09:29] <mpt> Hobbsee, is Launchpad really that bad?!?
[09:29] <Hobbsee> mpt: i'm finding it hellishly confusing currently, not having done any sponsorship for like...a month or so.
[09:30] <mpt> Anything in particular that's confusing?
[09:30] <Hobbsee> like, i'm seriously having to resort to email to change subscriptions and such, just because i can't work out the ui in less than 20 seconds, and don't wan't to spend all day on it
[09:30] <wgrant> Hobbsee: You could use production for a couple of days.
[09:30] <Hobbsee> just the buttons generally aren't in the smae places
[09:31] <lifeless> I found the 'edit descriptions' link at the bottom right of bug task lists to be invisible
[09:31] <wgrant> It is a bit of a trsnsition.
[09:31] <Hobbsee> wgrant: and stab the redirect button every couple of hours.  yes, that's possible.
[09:31] <wgrant> lifeless: It's not there any more.
[09:31] <lifeless> wgrant: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr-rebase/+bug/243150
[09:31] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 243150 in bzr-rebase "support -i flag as per git" [Wishlist,Triaged] 
[09:31] <lifeless> wgrant: it is for me :P
[09:31] <wgrant> lifeless: As mpt said, his fixes aren't on edge, only staging.
[09:31] <wgrant> I was pleased to see that improvement.
[09:32] <Hobbsee> mpt: say for the subscribers list, the "subscribe me" stuff isn't in the same place at all anymore, because it varies with how many people are subscribed.  so any automated mouse movements are now lost, and require differing amounts of scrolling, just to get the bit i want.
[09:32] <mpt> Hobbsee, good point, it should be at the top
[09:32] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Use the +subscribe, Luke.
[09:32] <Hobbsee> i'm pleased to say that i did learn to not hit sugar-journal-activity (Ubuntu) all the time
[09:33] <Hobbsee> wgrant: if i'm going to do that, and do multiple subscribes, i may as well just use email, and change the status in the same go.
[09:33] <wgrant> mpt: Urgh, the actions menu lives!
[09:33] <wgrant> On anything that isn't the root bug page.
[09:33] <Hobbsee> mpt: it's also frustrating how i have to keep scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, to see any information about the package at all - like it's current version number.
[09:34] <Hobbsee> and i'm sure i can minimise the subscriber panel on every page, but that's annoying too.
[09:34] <wgrant> Hobbsee: The tooltips will fix that, and we can then Greasemonkey them somewhere more readable.
[09:34] <Hobbsee> although i'm s ure i had that greasemonkified originally
[09:36] <\sh> oh darn....new lp layout on edge borks py-lp-bugs
[09:36] <wgrant> \sh: Use the text connector? Or is that still readonly?
[09:37] <wgrant> When's the API coming?
[09:37] <Hobbsee> \sh: this is normal, yes.
[09:37] <\sh> wgrant: text connector doesn't have user<->attachment correlation
[09:37] <Hobbsee> wgrant: launchpad 2.0!
[09:37] <wgrant> \sh: Blurgh.
[09:37] <\sh> wgrant: so no use for +text
[09:37] <\sh> wgrant: alarmed thekorn already :)
[09:37] <Hobbsee> poor thekorn.  he's going to have a lot to rewrite :(
[09:38] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Such is the life of a screenscraper.
[09:38] <Hobbsee> wgrant: there is that.
[09:38] <\sh> that reminds me
[09:39] <Hobbsee> morning mrevell 
[09:39] <mrevell> hey Hobbsee
[09:39] <Hobbsee> oh goody, my lp emails are working.
[09:39] <\sh> gmb: is there already a "preview" of NEW LP API project? :)
[09:39] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Watch out, gandwana is sending bogus timestamps!
[09:40] <Hobbsee> wgrant: does it matter?
[09:40] <Hobbsee> wgrant: as in, does the universe blow up, or do people just think it's odd?
[09:40] <gmb> \sh: I'm not sure. I think we're due to roll out some of the back-end code in the next couple of days, but whether it'll be enabled straight away I don't know. I'll find out for you.
[09:41] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Well, it took a while today to work out why I had a subscribed email that appeared to have been sent hour after I subscribed myself. I thought somebody else had done something.
[09:41] <Hobbsee> wgrant: ahhh.
[09:41]  * Hobbsee isn't subscribing to them herself
[09:41] <wgrant> gmb: Even documentation on the API might be useful, so it can be implemented quickly.
[09:42] <gmb> wgrant: Right. I'll ask about that, too :)
[09:43]  * Hobbsee pokes lp
[09:43] <Hobbsee> please actually load.
[09:44] <wgrant> Hobbsee: You /are/ in .au...
[09:44] <Hobbsee> wgrant: i know, but all the other sites still seem to load here.
[09:45] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Hopefully the reduced overhead of the Launchpad API will allow a local interface to operate much faster.
[09:45] <Hobbsee> wgrant: i'll live in hope
[10:21] <Hobbsee> launchpad timeout:  OOPS-908EA99 loading https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
[10:22] <Hobbsee> ah, it's coming up now
[10:24] <Hobbsee> OOPS-908EC96
[10:24] <wgrant> Maybe the storm appservers still playing up?
[10:25] <Hobbsee> and OOPS-908EB108
[10:42] <gnomefreak> is there a way to use apport to report bugs from PPA packages?
[10:44] <gnomefreak> or even is there a place for us to report bugs from PPA packages in LP?
[10:44] <wgrant> gnomefreak: There is not.
[10:45] <gnomefreak> wgrant: i didnt think so thanks
[10:45] <persia> gnomefreak: In the case where a PPA belongs to a team that belongs to a product, maybe for bug reporting, but not apport.
[10:46] <gnomefreak> it doesnt matter i dont think since ddeb repos dont have PPA -dbgsyn packages for PPA packages and we dont build them anymore since ddeb 
=== kiko__ is now known as kiko
=== prateeksaxena is now known as prtk
[12:36] <hubuntu> are mailing list still available for projects/teams @ LP or are they halted until some issues are fixed?
[12:38] <kiko> they are still available, hubuntu 
[12:39] <hubuntu> I asked for one but it is still pending approval.. DO you have any idea of how long it takes?
[12:39] <kiko> hubuntu, it shouldn't take much time at all, but you should get barry to answer why it's held up!
[12:40] <hubuntu> e-mail or a bug/answer/?
[12:40] <kiko> hubuntu, or just ping him on IRC -- he'll be on in 2h
[12:40] <barry> actually, insomnia :)  hubuntu what is the team name?
[12:41] <gnomefreak> hubuntu?
[12:42] <pep> spreadubuntu
[12:42] <pep> is the name of the team ;)
[12:42] <pep> it is a subteam/workgroup of the marketing team...
[12:43] <barry> pep: i deferred that one to jcastro because i wasn't sure if it should live on ubuntu.com instead of launchpad.net
[12:43] <pep> I see. Which means, practically? I suppose we better contact jcastro then :)
[12:43] <gnomefreak> did LP get an upgrade a little while ago?
[12:43] <gnomefreak> it seems alot different
[12:44] <gnomefreak> beta LP
[12:44] <barry> pep: yep, let's ping jcastro when he gets online and let him decide this one
[12:44] <pep> Fine, thank you.
[12:44] <barry> np!
[12:47] <hubuntu> barry we are not a ubuntu Team, we have a proper project for LP
[12:47] <hubuntu> with code and stuff
[12:47] <hubuntu> We are members of the Marketing Team, yes, but still we are implementing a project and using LP as a base
[12:47] <kiko> gnomefreak, yep, we're running an updated edge for the past 24h
[12:47] <hubuntu> some people comes from other places
[12:48] <hubuntu> thanks for the pep talk pep ;)
[12:48] <gnomefreak> kiko: cool i didnt notice it yesterday looks nice just have to get used to losing everything from left side of page
[12:49] <pep> :)
[12:49] <hubuntu> barry is there any way we can undeferr that or do we have to talk to Jorge?
[12:49] <carlos> hey, how's going?
[12:49] <kiko> gnomefreak, it's almost all gone now..
[12:49] <carlos> kiko: !
[12:49] <carlos> :-)
[12:50] <kiko> carlos!! how are you doing?
[12:51] <carlos> kiko: finishing the tedious process of opening a new company...
[12:51] <gnomefreak> i think i like it :)
[12:51] <carlos> other than that, quite good. What about you?
[12:51] <barry> hubuntu: thanks for the info.  that helped.  i'll go ahead and approve it.
[12:51] <hubuntu> thanks barry 
[12:51] <hubuntu> :)
[12:51] <kiko> carlos, it's fun, not tedious! I've been neck-deep into getting 1.2.6 out the door. you don't wanna know how much work it has been!
[12:52] <kiko> barry, I think we should email people in CC: when blocking an approval on jorge
[12:52] <carlos> kiko: well, looking at it in that way... :-)
[12:52] <barry> kiko: actually, jorge is supposed to watch that page every day, just like me <wink>
[12:52] <kiko> barry, yeah, but I bet mark don't hold him responsible guvnor
[12:52] <kiko> carlos, it's almost coming together now. some final bits to RC in. we've delayed rollout to monday though!
[12:53] <barry> kiko: i'll send an email about the 1/2 dozen still held teams
[12:53] <carlos> isn't that version going to be 2.0 ?
[12:53] <kiko> barry, thanks.
[12:53] <kiko> carlos, no, we'll do some weekly rollouts until 2.0
[12:53] <carlos> kiko: I see
[12:53] <hubuntu> We asked for the list for over 10 days ago... last time I asked for something like that it took just 2 days
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[13:16] <kiko> wgrant, siretart: ping?
[13:16] <wgrant> kiko: Hi.
[13:17] <kiko> wgrant, we have trac and bugzilla launchpad plugins now, and I want to get some sites running them to help us test them. can you help us?
[13:19] <wgrant> kiko: Unfortunately I'm not an upstream.
[13:19] <wgrant> Are these the plugins that allow syncing in the opposite direction?
[13:19] <kiko> wgrant, sure, but you use those upstream trackers, and this enables bi-di communication with them
[13:19] <kiko> yes
[13:19] <kiko>  William Grant             |      6
[13:19] <kiko> you have registered 6 trackers yourself :)
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[13:21] <wgrant> kiko: Now that's one query I've never seen available publicly - is it not, or is that one part of LP I've missed?
[13:21] <kiko> it's not available, mark just cooked it up and pointed it to me! :)
[13:21] <wgrant> And, well, I rarely interact directly with the upstream trackers - LP makes it too convenient to have to.
[13:21] <wgrant> Aha.
[13:22] <kiko> wgrant, c'mon, you should be able to nag some sysops out there.. :)
[13:22] <wgrant> The one upstream I interact regularly with uses BerliOS, unfortunately :(
[13:24] <wgrant> I do wish I could help, but this is unfortunately a case where I cannot.
[13:28] <siretart> kiko: pong!
[13:30] <kiko> siretart, so you also come up as one of the people who has registered the most remote bugtrackers
[13:30] <kiko> siretart, I wanna know if you don't want to help us find beta test sites for our trac and bugzilla plugins
[13:30] <siretart> kiko: I'm not sure I understand, but does this mean comments filed and status changes in launchpad will be automatically propagated to the upstream bug tracker?
[13:30] <kiko> yep
[13:30] <kiko> if they enable it
[13:30] <siretart> kiko: as for bugzilla: I think the xine project would be a good candidate. they recently moved to bugzilla 3
[13:30] <siretart> ah, so this is opt-in
[13:30] <siretart> great
[13:31] <kiko> yeah!
[13:31] <kiko> siretart, can you chat with them?
[13:31] <kiko> and get back to gmb and me
[13:31] <siretart> I'll ask them, sure. Is there a wiki page or something I can show them for details?
[13:32] <kiko> siretart, no, but gmb will be sending out an announcement today (he doesn't know yet ;) and he'll include you in that list.
[13:32] <siretart> ah, ok. cool
[13:33] <siretart> kiko: btw, if these plugins allow bi-directional communication, are they also capable of doing uni-directional syncing?
[13:33] <siretart> kiko: I could imaging that mirroring debian bugs would be very benifical for ubuntu
[13:33] <wgrant> That has been coming for a while now :(
[13:34] <wgrant> It would make things such as RC bug tracking so easy.
[13:35] <kiko> siretart, well.. debbugs imports, we can already do -- the UI isn't there, though
[13:36] <siretart> I see
[13:36] <siretart> kiko: and btw, did you see my email I wrote you some time ago as the new lp liason guy?
[13:37] <kiko> siretart, I did, just been too sandbagged with 1.2.6
[13:37] <siretart> ah, okay, I wasn't sure if it got lost or something in transit
[13:37] <wgrant> kiko: Wasn't 1.2.6 meant to be 2.0? Or was that 1.2.7?
[13:38] <kiko> it's 1.2.7
[13:39] <wgrant> And are these database layer changes the migration to Storm?
[13:40] <kiko> well we had already run storm for a while, but this is an update and using storm in more places
[13:40] <wgrant> Ah.
[14:23] <glatzor> hello danilos, as far as I can remember you wrote a python api for handling po files some time ago. could you point me to the source code? I would like to improve my podiff tool.
[14:26] <glatzor> danilos, by the way one of your translators called imre (who also works as a professional translators) wants to start collecting messages for a test or training template
[14:32] <glatzor> danilos, would the best approach be to setup a new project with a bzr repository containg the template? How could we cleanup the already made suggestions?
[14:32] <hubuntu> are there any webmasters for Ubuntu.com here? any Idea of where to find them?
[14:32] <kiko> hubuntu, talk to newz2000
[14:41] <bimberi> hubuntu: If it's a problem with the site you can report it here:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+filebug
[14:42] <hubuntu> thanks bimberi, I just wanted to know more about which drupal version ubuntu.com is planning to use
[14:45] <bimberi> hubuntu: ah, then kiko's is a better answer :)  Although there's also https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website
[14:45] <hubuntu> kiko refered me to newz2000 and he has already answered my questions, but thanks anyways
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[15:53] <popey> is it safe / easy to fully delete a user from lp? even if that user has commits to a code branch? or should I leave the user kicking about?
[15:53] <popey> (rationale is, I am creating a tutorial / screencast and will register a couple of "demo" accounts to show stuff, and after the screencast they'll probably not be needed any more)
[15:58] <salgado> popey, can't you use staging for that?
[15:58] <wgrant> popey: Use staging.launchpad.net.
[15:58] <wgrant> Now what are the chances of that?
[15:59] <popey> hmmm
[15:59] <wgrant> mpt: The placement of the 'Activity log' link on staging makes a lot more sense and makes it look less strange.
[15:59] <mpt> good :-)
[16:00] <popey> is staging a copy of lp?
[16:00] <mpt> One day we won't have a separate activity log page
[16:00] <popey> and if so, how often is it taken?
[16:00] <wgrant> mpt: That would be excellent. It would be even better if it was actually as useful as lists.ubuntu.com
[16:00] <salgado> popey, daily
[16:00] <wgrant> popey: I believe the DB is copied over daily, or at least it was at one point.
[16:01] <mpt> we'll have activity embedded in the page along with the comments
[16:02] <mpt> and sunshine and ponies for breakfast
[16:02] <wgrant> Ponies for breakfast. That'll make people happy.
[16:02] <mpt> popey, the staging.launchpad.net database is overwritten with a copy of the launchpad.net database approximately daily
[16:03]  * wgrant now heads off to bed, as he has a uni exam in 12 hours.
[16:03] <mpt> best wishes
[16:03] <wgrant> Last one for this semester, yay.
[16:04] <laga> good luck
[16:13] <mpt> Any translators in the beta team here?
[16:13] <mpt> If so, what do you think of the redesigned translation pages?
[16:21] <noamsml> OK
[16:21] <noamsml> This is going to sound silly
[16:21] <noamsml> But I created a project and can't figure out how to give someone else admin permissions
[16:21] <noamsml> Well, I managed to give them admin permissions, but now I have none
[16:22] <noamsml> In short, how can a project have two maintainers?
[16:25] <noamsml> Nevermind
[16:25] <noamsml> I figured it out
[17:16] <vadi2> How can I delete a release? I accidently made the latest release first, and launchpad keeps thinking it's the oldest now
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[18:56] <Rinchen> >> Join us for the Launchpad Meeting in #launchpad-meeting starting in 3 minutes.
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[19:42] <mathiaz> Hi - can I push loom branches to LP ?
[19:42] <thumper> mathiaz: you should be able to
[19:43] <thumper> mathiaz: but it will just show as a single branch
[19:43] <mathiaz> thumper: but if someone branches, it will be able to see the threads ?
[19:43] <mathiaz> s/it/he|she/
[19:43] <thumper> mathiaz: they would need the loom plug-in, but I think so
[19:44] <mathiaz> thumper: ok - I'll give it a try then
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[19:59] <mathiaz> thumper: hmm.. It doesn't work - I've pushed my branch to LP and branch it in a different directory - the threads of loom don't show up
[20:00] <thumper> mathiaz: did you do a `bzr record` before pushing?
[20:00] <thumper> mathiaz: I think that is a loom thing
=== Rinchen changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Next meeting, all welcome: Thu 3 July 2008, 1800UTC #launchpad-meeting | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Questions and spam reports: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
[20:01] <Rinchen> changed date for next mtg
[20:01] <mathiaz> thumper: yes
[20:01] <thumper> mathiaz: I'll get someone to look at it
[20:01]  * thumper recalls a bug
[20:02] <thumper> mathiaz: where did you get your loom plug-in from, and what is the revno?
[20:02] <mathiaz> thumper: I checked out the loom plugin from bzr in ~/.bazaar/plugins/
[20:03] <mathiaz> thumper: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23185/
[20:04] <mathiaz> thumper: revision 84
[20:04] <thumper> hmm
[20:05] <thumper> ok, I go back to my previous comment, of I'll get someone to look at it.
[20:06] <thumper> mathiaz: you may be interested in following bug 201613
[20:06] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 201613 in bzr-loom "pushing looms does not work properly" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201613
[20:08] <mathiaz> thumper: great - thanks for your help
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[22:52] <kimus> hi, need help checking out a newly created project on edge.launchpad.net
[22:53] <kimus> I do a bzr co bzr+ssh://login@bazaar.launchpad.net/~registrant/project/branch
[22:54] <kimus> and gives me bzr ERROR that is Not a branch
[22:54] <kimus> hello? any help here?
[22:55] <beuno> kimus, is that the actual URL?
[22:55] <kimus> of course not beuno
[22:55] <beuno> ah, ok
[22:55] <beuno> the sytax is correct, could you paste the actual URL?
[22:55] <kimus> bzr+ssh://kimus@bazaar.launchpad.net/~kimus/ubuntu-pt-website/trunk
[22:56] <beuno> kimus, seems you haven't pushed properly to that branch yet
[22:57] <beuno> do you have that branch locally somewhere?
[22:57] <kimus> beuno: ok, fine. and how do I do that? I created the branch and it's lp:~kimus/ubuntu-pt-website/trunk
[22:57] <kimus> beuno: but that is local no? 
[22:58] <beuno> kimus, how did you create that branch?
[22:58] <beuno> through the Launchpad page, or by pushing?
[22:58] <kimus> in the code tab of the project :-)
[22:58] <beuno> ok, well, I never understood what that was for
[22:59] <beuno> you want to have a branch for ubuntu-pt-website, right?
[22:59] <kimus> beuno: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-pt-website/trunk
[23:00] <kimus> beuno: It says "You can push a branch to Launchpad for this project with the name trunk using a command line like: bzr push lp:~kimus/ubuntu-pt-website/trunk", but...
[23:00] <kimus> how tha hell I push?
[23:00] <beuno> kimus, right, you have to create that locally
[23:00] <beuno> you have the files for that somewhere already?
[23:00] <kimus> humm, so I need to init the bzr ?
[23:01] <kimus> beuno: yes, I have. But I was testing :-)
[23:01] <beuno> yes, bzr init && bzr add && bzr commit -m'Starting project...'
[23:01] <kimus> beuno: so, I need to init my local dir first
[23:01] <beuno> kimus, yes
[23:01] <beuno> after that, bzr push lp:~kimus/ubuntu-pt-website/trunk
[23:02] <kimus> beuno: ok fine. It's diff from svn
[23:02] <kimus> strange :-D
[23:02] <beuno> kimus, well, it's distributed, so many things should be different
[23:02] <beuno> mostly in a good way  :)
[23:03] <kimus> beuno: I hope so. but the local files being a copy of the remote repo it's strange to me
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[23:04] <beuno> kimus, once you understand the basic concepts of DVCS, you will never be able to go back  :)
[23:04] <beuno> kimus, take a look at: http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/user-guide/index.html
[23:04] <kimus> beuno: depends on the space it uses on my disk :-p
[23:05] <beuno> and http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/  if you still feel curious
[23:07] <kimus> beuno: bzr: ERROR: Target directory bzr+ssh://kimus@bazaar.launchpad.net/~kimus/ubuntu-pt-website/trunk already exists, but does not have a valid .bzr directory. Supply --use-existing-dir to push there anyway.
[23:07] <kimus> can't do an empty branch? :-D
[23:08] <beuno> kimus, do what bzr say's, add --use-existing-dir
[23:08] <beuno> this happens when you create a branch through LP  :p
[23:08] <kimus> beuno: sorry i'm being lazy and asking you
[23:09] <kimus> beuno: so after I do push I have to do a co? or can I start working from local dir?
[23:10] <beuno> kimus, ask away, happy to help
[23:10] <beuno> once you pushed, you just keep on working on your local dir, and push as you need
[23:10] <beuno> if anyone *else* wants that branch, they will have to do a checkout, or a full branch
[23:10] <kimus> so, push is a 'merge to server' command?
[23:11] <beuno> kimus, well, you're going to be doing the merges, if any are needed (ie, someone else pushed to it)
[23:11] <beuno> but yes
[23:11] <beuno> of course, if you want to work the way svn does
[23:11] <beuno> once you push, you can then do bzr co...
[23:11] <beuno> and the branch will be bound to LP
[23:11] <kimus> beuno: what's the diff between co and branch?
[23:12] <beuno> so when you commit, it will go straight to LP too
[23:12] <beuno> kimus, branch's are independent, checkouts are bound to parent
[23:12] <kimus> so, my initial creation is a branch like the one another person can do
[23:13] <beuno> yeap
[23:13] <kimus> and the way to do a 'commit' (merge) to the server is the push command
[23:13] <kimus> if i what I can do a CO and it's like snv
[23:13] <beuno> in branches, commits and pushed/merges are seperate
[23:13] <beuno> so you commit all you want
[23:13] <beuno> and when you're ready for the world to see it, you push
[23:14] <beuno> that will send off all your changes
[23:14] <beuno> kimus, the user guide and bazaar docs are filled with very good recommendations
[23:15] <kimus> beuno: I think I get it... but a branch of a old project will get the all revision history?!... ugh
[23:16] <beuno> kimus, yes. You can do a lightweight checkout instead, which doesn't
[23:16] <beuno> but, I can tell you from experience, you'll eventually end up using branches  :)
[23:17] <kimus> beuno: ok cool I have all my fears answered :-D
[23:17] <beuno> kimus, feel free to hang out in #bzr for anymore help
[23:17] <kimus> beuno: It's almos the same of SVN but has the branch stuff, thought the SVN can do user branches also
[23:17] <kimus> but its remote
[23:17] <beuno> lots of very knowledgable people there  :)
[23:18] <beuno> kimus, you can use it exactly like SVN if you wish, with checkouts
[23:18] <beuno> from now on, that is
[23:19] <kimus> beuno: I think it's not very different from SVN. Just this initial setup and the branches/push stuff :-)
[23:19] <beuno> and as for full-history, the next release of bzr will address that with "shallow branches"
[23:19] <beuno> so you can just grab the last commits, and work on top of that
[23:20] <beuno> kimus, I don't have much experience with SVN, so I can't really say in what they deffer in detail
[23:21] <kimus> beuno: for now not mush :-) ... but I will find out after I use this bazaar. funny name :-D
[23:21] <kimus> *much
[23:22] <beuno> kimus, good luck  :)
[23:22] <kimus> beuno: in my language 'bazar' is "going away' eh eh eh
[23:23] <Nafallo> good thing it's bazaar then :-)
[23:23] <kimus> beuno: so, i'm going 'bazar' from here. thank you!
[23:24] <beuno> kimus, your welcome
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