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UbuntuIRC

	[00:14] <elky_work> PriceChild: im inclined to take the same opinion as hobbsee here as i dont feel emma is behaving appropriately yet and i do not wish to reward this failure to comply with our requests. If it was not for the fact that I got baited in -artwork on the 10th, I would be thinking the same as you, but alas: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/06/10/#ubuntu-artwork.txt
	[00:16] <elky_work> note that the logs dont show her join immediately before and immediately after those lines, or that I was in the middle of a meeting in -meeting at the time, a channel she was in at the time.
	[00:25] <PriceChild> nalioth: wondering if you would like to change your vote based on ^ before we call that a decision?
	=== Jucato_ is now known as Jucato
	[00:45] <HardDisk> elky_work, sorry was here due to an issue about me modifying ubotu and my connection was reset, I'll part. just thought being an ubuntu-eg op would have given me some incentive to idle here and discuss issue. Sorry for the trouble.
	[00:54] <elky_work> ugh, i explained to him the other day that -irc is for loco channel ops
	[01:05] <emma> Hello my friends.
	[01:07] <emma> elky_work do you happen to be here? I take issue with something you recently said about me. I would like to have a serious conversation with you as one adult to another, right here in the open.
	[01:26] <Baron1984> Jack_Sparrow: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5194235#post5194235
	[01:27] <Baron1984> all ops for that matter
	[01:27] <Baron1984> have a nice read
	[01:31] <elky_work> have a nice life then.
	[01:31] <emma> Hello elky_work
	[01:32] <Daviey> elky_work: am i looking at a different log to you?
	[01:33] <emma> elky_work: I feel that the comments which you recently made about me are not fair or accurate. You posted a link to a log in #ubuntu-artwork. What that log shows is me enterting a channel, and checking with you if it was okay for me to be there. You seemed very very terse. To honest I felt it was dismissive. It was hurtful. But rather than cause any scene, I parted.
	[01:33] <Daviey> I can exactly see what she has done in that log you pasted to be "[not] behaving appropriately"?
	[01:33] <Baron1984> Yeah, so it gets locked, of course
	[01:33] <Baron1984> Ubuntu is not open, and does not encourage users to grow
	[01:33] <emma> I think that the same log you posted as rationale for extending a ban on me, is the same log I might have posted to show how some times you are not very friendly.
	[01:34] <Baron1984> it's about maintaining this spic and span image for Canonical
	[01:34] <PriceChild> Baron1984: I have replied to your thread.
	[01:35] <elky_work> emma: you asked if you could PM me, i said no because i was busy, so you implied that me being busy reviewing ubuntu member applications was bad for the community.
	[01:35] <Daviey> elky_work: You can't presume that because someone is in the same channel as you, that they know what you are doing. I've got well over 100 channels open at the moment.. I have no idea what people are doing in most of them. Unless you expect her to put you on hilight before talking to you?
	[01:35] <Baron1984> yeah, censored it
	[01:35] <Baron1984> like a chicken
	[01:36] <Baron1984> thats ok, I'll just write an even longer one and put it on my mailing list
	[01:36] <Daviey> elky_work: easy, that is putting words in her mouth. She clearly had no idea you were in a meeting.
	[01:36] <emma> elky_work: It is very important that if we are going to speak to eachother that we speak to eachother as adults.
	[01:36] <Baron1984> Thats how Ubuntu works, treat users like morons, keep them ignorant, and when they question you...silence them
	[01:37] <Baron1984> unless I missed something
	[01:37] <emma> elky_work: I had absolutely no idea you were in a meeting or doing anything else. #ubuntu-meeting is one of at least 20 channels that I idle in all hours of the day. I do not keep track of when you are speaking there. I think surely everyone must understand that.
	[01:37] <emma> I would like to pause this for a moment until Baron1984 is done. I am finding it distracting.
	[01:38] <Baron1984> thats alright, I'll make sure a few thousand people get my writeup about Ubuntu
	[01:38] <Baron1984> how does that sound?
	[01:38] <Baron1984> including chat logs and all
	[01:39] <PriceChild> Baron1984: we have a documented appeals process, which I have directed you to in the thread on ubuntuforums.org
	[01:39] <Jack_Sparrow> Chat logs like this <Baron1984> Ubuntu is mainly for fucktard newbies anyway
	[01:40] <PriceChild> Baron1984: could you please take a step back for an hour or so, review that document then start following it if you deem it necessary?
	[01:40] <Baron1984> yeah, sure that'll hel
	[01:40] <Baron1984> *help
	[01:41] <Baron1984> I'll just switch to an OS where I'm not treated like a smacktard for wanting to use system functionality that was crippled
	[01:41] <PriceChild> Baron1984: well then I wish you good luck.
	[01:42] <Baron1984> sudo has been around for over two decades, and Ubuntu is the first system to assume it's users are all morons
	[01:42] <Baron1984> and turn it off
	[01:42] <Baron1984> *su that is
	[01:42] <Baron1984> sorry, I'm tired and grouchy
	[01:43] <Baron1984> an it's not even any real protection from a script or anything, just from other users knowing the root password and using it as well
	[01:44] <PriceChild> Baron1984: you've been directed to the reasons why ubuntu uses sudo, and why we ask that people don't reccomend su in #ubuntu.
	[01:44] <Baron1984> then I get kickbanned for mentioning root, because in Ubuntology, thats a four letter word
	[01:44] <Baron1984> and you're right I'm mad, and then when I say something about it, you censor me
	[01:44] <PriceChild> I don't think that's at all fair.
	[01:44] <elky_work> it's a four letter word in english too. please take your tired grumpiness elsewhere.
	[01:46] <PriceChild> elky_work: work!
	[01:46] <elky_work> yes yes, i know
	[01:48] <PriceChild> Baron1984: I've asked you to follow the documented procedure that we have.
	[01:48] <Baron1984> http://www.stumbleupon.com/url/www.ubuntu.com/
	[01:48] <Baron1984> :)
	[01:55] <Baron1984> The documented procedure is to keep working on Xchat-Gnome until it's an overglorified Hello World, just like most GNOME apps, and then remove the Xchat package
	[01:55] <Baron1984> ;)
	[01:56] <PriceChild> Baron1984: best case scenario, what do you want to achieve here?
	[01:57] <Baron1984> meh, build a time machine and stop myself from installing Ubuntu in the first place to prevent the pain in the butt formatting this partition and taking an hour out of my life to configure a real OS
	[01:57] <Baron1984> not a demented Tonka Toy
	[01:58] <PriceChild> Baron1984: Well then I think the best way to move on for you is to pretend this never happenned, go back to your real OS and /part #ubuntu-ops
	[02:00] <Baron1984> yeah, so you can go back to censoring and sheep herding
	[02:00] <Baron1984> gotcha
	[02:01] <PriceChild> Everyone's a winner.
	[02:01] <bazhang> Baron1984, best to /part now.
	[02:03] <emma> Okay. So that was a little distracting.
	[02:04] <emma> The reason that I came in here is because I found a comment by elky_work that I really take issue with.
	[02:05] <emma> elky_work: I would like to speak to you as one adult to another in an open way.
	[02:05] <emma> This is the comment that you made:
	[02:05] <emma> 00:14elky_workPriceChild: im inclined to take the same opinion as hobbsee here as i dont feel emma is behaving appropriately yet and i do not wish to reward this failure to comply with our requests. If it was not for the fact that I got baited in -artwork on the 10th, I would be thinking the same as you, but alas: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/06/10/#ubuntu-artwork.txt
	[02:05] <elky_work> emma: i am at work. this means i am busy. please dont make snarky comments when i point out that i havent the time to engage in a conversation with you, which is what you did in the log i posted.
	[02:06] <emma> I did not make any snarky comments to you. I think that the log that you posted could have been posted just as well by me to show how at times you are not very friendly.
	[02:07] <elky_work> busy != unfriendly
	[02:07] <Daviey> I really think that posted statement is a poor example of "[not] behaving appropriately".
	[02:07] <emma> What is important for you to understand and for everyone else to understand is that I did not know you were talking in #ubuntu-meeting.
	[02:07] <emma> I idle in many many channels 24 hours a day. I do not know when any given person on freenode is talking in one of them unless I am talking there also.
	[02:07] <PriceChild> emma: elky_work has given her opinion on a vote that I called. That is her opinion and an issue you should probably take up with her privately. The current vote would go in favour of unbanning you from most channels, I am just holding off to allow nalioth to change his opinion based on the logs elky produced recently.
	[02:08] <elky_work> it doesnt matter. me being busy does not equate ubuntu lacking community, and does not require you to imply that me being busy and informing you so is an indicator of ubuntu lacking community
	[02:08] <Nafallo> elky_work: "no. I'm in a meeting at the moment. please pm and I can have a look when I've got more time." see... this is a proper answer and doesn't take that long to type :-)
	[02:08] <emma> This is relevant because also, earlier today, Hobbsee made this same 'argument' implying that I should know when she is busy in another channel just because we are in it at the same time. This is not reasonable and not the way that IRC works for anyone.
	[02:08] <elky_work> it is an indicator of me being busy. end of story.
	[02:08] <elky_work> Nafallo: that's alot to write when busy
	[02:08] <elky_work> Nafallo: i didnt want to engage in a discussion about why i was busy
	[02:08] <PriceChild> emma: Your issue with is has been heard and the people making the decision will take note of it. I suggest you leave elky a PM with your views so that you can discuss it when you both have time.
	[02:09] <elky_work> Nafallo: saying im busy should be enough.
	[02:09] <PriceChild> s/ie/this/
	[02:09] <PriceChild> gah
	[02:09] <PriceChild> is
	[02:09] <emma> PriceChild: then it is probably a good thing that I happened to see the #ubuntu-logs or else that bit of 'evidence' might actually have gone without any comment that was fair.
	[02:09] <elky_work> PriceChild: i do not welcome PMs whilst i am at work.
	[02:09] <emma> PriceChild: I have been told by Hobbsee and by elky_work that I am never to pm them.
	[02:10] <elky_work> i only recall saying 'while im at work'
	[02:10] <elky_work> which means, never this nick
	[02:10] <emma> I would also like to point out that not only is the log that elky_work posted from #ubuntu-artwork not any evidence of 'bad behavior' its actually evidence of going out of my way to be compliant.
	[02:10] <Nafallo> elky_work: sure, but will you be less busy by all those damn discussions following? :-)
	[02:11] <PriceChild> emma: it goes without saying that we will each make our own opinion of what that log shows...
	[02:11] <elky_work> Nafallo: if people were courteous enough to not take me being busy as a personal insult, sure.
	[02:12] <emma> If you look at the log that elky_work posted from #ubuntu-artwork what you will see is me (1) Making sure it was okay that I was in the channel. (2) asking to pm her rather than doing it immediately (although I thought ops are suupposed to be available) and then (3) I was dismised in a very terse way.
	[02:12] <elky_work> emma: i never said it wasnt ok for you to be there. you only asked if it was official.
	[02:12] <PriceChild> emma: we are able to read the logs.
	[02:12] <emma> Rather than compounding it there in #ubuntu-artwork, I made my comment about not feeling very welcome and then I left.
	[02:12] <emma> PriceChild: yes thank you.
	[02:13] <emma> I think it is very unclear why I am banned in some channels but not in others. I also think it is very unclear who or why or how I am banned in half of them. These are channels I have never been in, and said not one single word in.
	[02:13] <Daviey> I think we should also take into account emma's general behaviour, considering she has been banned for well over 2 months now. She hasn't reacted in the same way, that you would see many people who get banned. She also has made no effort to evade any of the bans placed.
	[02:13] <Nafallo> I'd call it a very very infection relation between users.
	[02:13] * PriceChild thought we were ->\|\|<- close to resolving this...
	[02:14] <Nafallo> infected even
	[02:15] <Daviey> Well if it isn't solved soon, i certainly think it needs to go back to the CC. It's a joke.
	[02:15] <Nafallo> Daviey: +1
	[02:15] <elky_work> PriceChild: i'd say im feeling stalked and harrassed right now, but members of a team are apparantly not allowed to feel that.
	[02:15] <Nafallo> that or the community manager
	[02:15] <PriceChild> elky_work: who is stalking you where?
	[02:16] <elky_work> PriceChild: well, i only said the quoted passage two hours ago
	[02:16] <Baron1984> emma: They have no rhyme or reason, if you slight one of the ops, they'll just lock on to you
	[02:16] <Baron1984> ban, harass, censor, and belittle
	[02:16] <PriceChild> Let me remind people that the current vote is in favour of unbanning in all channels we manage bar the -offtopics
	[02:16] <Baron1984> very childish and unprofessional
	[02:17] <Daviey> PriceChild: and why not unban from -offtopics?
	[02:17] <PriceChild> We have more than one person on a council for a reason.
	[02:17] <emma> Without sounding immodest, far from the allegations, I think I have been one of the more patient people you will find. This now goes on for 70 days. At different times and by different people I am given different reasons for the ban. And different people have different ideas which channels I am even banned in.
	[02:17] <PriceChild> It is because different people have different opinions, and a majority will win the vote.
	[02:18] <PriceChild> Regardless of what decision is made by the council and whether I agreed in the vote, if it is made I will support it in the future and hope I speak for the rest also.
	[02:18] <Daviey> perhaps we should also have a vote on if the council should apologise to emma for their bad handling.
	[02:18] <emma> At times it is transparently clear that the bans are just made up as they go. With zero possible explanation since I have never even been in them.
	[02:18] <elky_work> PriceChild: doesnt democracy just suck. anarchy ftw.
	[02:19] <Nafallo> elky_work: that doesn't make a good example for the position you are in :-)
	[02:19] <elky_work> Nafallo: yes, i shoudl have wrapped it in <sarcasm> tags. my apologies.
	[02:19] <Nafallo> elky_work: sarcasm just doesn't work in text. thought you knew that ;-)
	[02:20] <PriceChild> Daviey: that is the channel where the troubles began and is a touchy area, the council didn't feel comfortable with suggesting that also.
	[02:20] <elky_work> Nafallo: forgive me for being stressed here, im trying to work and defend myself at the same time.
	[02:20] <emma> At times there are glaring inconsistencies such as being told explicitly that the original ban was placed on me by the Ubuntu IRC Council, and then Hobbsee maintaining that she has the say when I am unbanned in channels I have never set foot in.
	[02:20] <Nafallo> also, that's part of all the confusion I would think :-)
	[02:20] <PriceChild> elky_work: please go to work.
	[02:20] <emma> (I must admit I am having a hard time following this right now since the channel is moving rather fast)
	[02:22] <emma> I respect elky_work feeling stresed. I assure you that for me to come in here is very stressful as well.
	[02:22] <emma> I think that for the most part I have said what I needed to say though.
	[02:22] <Daviey> PriceChild: When will the council have an _open_ meeting, where rational will be shown. I think this whole thing has been so murky, I bet everyone has a different memory on what actually started this.
	[02:22] <tonyyarusso> Memory becomes fuzzy after four months regardless.
	[02:22] <emma> Would anyone like me to clarify anything else or else I would like to part as well?
	[02:22] <bazhang> I remember it very well.
	[02:23] <PriceChild> Daviey: I think we have been open in this channel? If it is really necessary, I can give you a brief outline of what happenned to start this all in PM.
	[02:23] <emma> If the conversation is going to stay on me and what I have done or not done then I think I should probably stay.
	[02:24] <Daviey> PriceChild: Naa, don't worry about it.. I'm pretty sure i remember, but it's too late to go into it now.
	[02:24] <tonyyarusso> I think this has been covered a few dozen times more than it needs to already, so I'm sure we're done here.
	[02:24] <emma> Yes well there are some things about it that need to be hilighted.
	[02:24] <tonyyarusso> Doubt it.
	[02:24] <PriceChild> emma: nope, we're fine as we are thankyou.
	[02:26] <emma> Nothing I have ever done has existed in vacuum. And everyone's subsequent actions over the last 3 months fairly well speak for themselves.
	[02:27] <jrib> Baron1984: can I help you with anything?
	[02:27] <emma> 70 days is a long long time to punish someone for reasons that were always at best personal. It is a long time to drag someone's name through the mud, and it is a long time to accuse them of being 'impatient'.
	[02:28] <tonyyarusso> We said we were done here.
	[02:28] <Baron1984> well, if you could undo PriceChild+Jack_Sparrow's hissy fit/temper tantrum
	[02:28] <Baron1984> that would be truly awesome
	[02:28] <bazhang> Baron1984, please /part now.
	[02:28] <nalioth> Baron1984: irc != www
	[02:29] <emma> Goodnight.
	[02:33] <PriceChild> nalioth: did you catch the log provided by elkbuntu earlier, and would you like to change your vote because of it?
	[02:33] <PriceChild> or because of the previous discussion of course
	[02:34] <bazhang> * irc.freenode.net sets ban on !@ip-216-36-87-119.chi.megapath.net
	[02:34] <ajmitch> more productive drama, I see
	[02:34] <bazhang> saw floodbot kick someone the other day.
	[02:35] <PriceChild> bazhang: server reconnecting, different sides having different lists and so it resolves the two sides
	[02:35] <bazhang> that was exciting.
	[02:35] <ajmitch> anarchy?
	[02:37] <nalioth> PriceChild: i am reviewing (or trying to) quite a few things posted in here
	[02:52] * PriceChild sleeps
	[02:52] <Baron1984> PriceChild doesn't sleep, he waits, and pounces
	[02:53] <bazhang> Baron1984, please read the /topic
	[02:53] <jrib> Baron1984: if that is all you are here to do, please /part this channel
	[02:53] <bazhang> !idle \| Baron1984
	[02:53] <ubottu> Baron1984: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only, and we ask you to part when you have no further business here, in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.
	[02:54] <Baron1984> oh right....sorry
	[02:54] <Baron1984> Why do the operators get to abuse people?
	[02:54] <Baron1984> :)
	[02:54] <nalioth> Baron1984: for the last time, irc is not the forums
	[02:55] <nalioth> there is a proper place to complain
	[02:55] <Baron1984> yeah, I already stated my thoughts on that
	=== nixternal_ is now known as nixternal
	[02:55] <Baron1984> they'll just have people backing them up, no matter how wrong they are
	[02:55] <Nafallo> Baron1984: dude... cmon. this is not the place.
	[02:56] <Baron1984> so why give them the pleasure of asking?
	[02:56] <Nafallo> Baron1984: if you want to bring it forward, the community council would probably be your next stop.
	[02:56] <jrib> if you can foresee the future, then there is not much point in asking questions
	[02:56] <Nafallo> Baron1984: see the wiki.u.c for that.
	[02:57] <PriceChild> nalioth: cc is most definitely not the next stop
	[02:57] <PriceChild> gah
	[02:57] <Baron1984> I don't need a crystal ball to know how management theory works
	[02:57] <PriceChild> Nafallo: ^
	[02:57] <Baron1984> they cover each other and hose you, every time
	[02:57] <Nafallo> oki. my bad then :-)
	[02:58] <Baron1984> I need a .50 caliber armor piercing LART gun to use on them, preferably in the format and fire rate of a P-90
	[02:58] <jrib> Baron1984: you are predicting the future and then using your prediction as the basis of your argument... I asked you how I could help you a while ago and all you did was take jabs at operators since then. So you can see how I get the impression you are just a troll
	[02:58] <Baron1984> or maybe a phaser set to a rotating modulation
	[03:07] <Hobbsee> damn.
	[03:07] <ajmitch> ah, and he also did a drive-by url spam of his complaints in #launchpad, very helpful
	[03:08] <Hobbsee> gdm crashed on me.
	[03:08] <Hobbsee> oh, and we had more emma fun overnight, that's what the highlights were.
	[03:09] <ajmitch> nothing exciting, I guess
	[03:09] <bazhang> operators are always wrong seems to be the takeaway from today :)
	[03:09] * ajmitch can never be wrong
	[03:11] <jrib> baron is spamming almost every ubuntu channel I am in...
	[03:12] <Hobbsee> oh is this the baron from earlier?
	[03:13] <ajmitch> yep
	[03:14] <bazhang> lordleemo1 (n=lordleem@i577B999E.versanet.de) has joined #ubuntu he still spamming?
	[03:24] <Hobbsee> bah. pity emma isn't here.
	[03:24] <Hobbsee> for when she does read the logs
	[03:25] <Hobbsee> the reason i did consider letting her in, when she should have been banned there anyway (and me not having done so was an oversight, as i went to work soon after, and doubted she'd turn up there), was because I knew unbanning her was being talked about, and thought about.
	[03:26] <Hobbsee> however, due to her lack of change of behaviour at all, and her comments in -devel when she was there, I saw, and still see absolutely no reason to unban her at all.
	[03:27] <Hobbsee> Clearly, what I should have done, and what I will likely end up doing in future, is give a blanket no for any of the devel channels, due to her bad, unchanging behaviour, and how it is unsuitable for any devel-related channels.
	[03:27] <Hobbsee> and she will remained banned there, likely, forever.
	[03:27] <Hobbsee> As, as she points out, she's been trying to cause trouble and annoy people for 70+ days, so it's unlikely that she'll actually change at this point.
	[03:28] <bazhang> didnt know that devel channel were for anyone outside of developers
	[03:28] <Hobbsee> bazhang: they are, if the outsiders are going to actually contribute usefully - ie, to stay on topic
	[03:28] <Hobbsee> ie, they're not closed, selectively voiced channels
	[03:28] <nickrud> Hobbsee isn't that a definition of a developer?
	[03:29] <bazhang> Hobbsee, aha; must be like watching paint dry if you are not a developer :)
	[03:29] <nickrud> hm, that was said with a smile :)
	[03:29] <Hobbsee> nickrud: probably, but i wasn't sure if he specifically meant the universe contributors team and above, or something.
	[03:29] <Hobbsee> nickrud: it also accounts for those who are looking to get into doing development, but aren't really "developers" yet.
	[03:30] <Hobbsee> ie, them asking questions about what they're looking at, and such.
	[03:30] <bazhang> nickrud never sleeps :)
	[03:30] <ajmitch> or people who just lurk there & throw some advice out every now & then
	[03:30] <Hobbsee> bazhang: well, there's a lot of info that goes around which is useful to know about, in there
	[03:30] <nickrud> hah.
	[03:31] <bazhang> Hobbsee, I did not mean to cast aspersions on the developers; just odd for non-developers to hang out there imo
	[03:31] <nickrud> ah, the uber-lurkers
	[03:31] <Hobbsee> bazhang: hmm. i know a lot of the testers hang out there too.
	[03:32] <Hobbsee> bazhang: (didn't take any aspersions on the devs either, for hte record)
	[03:32] <bazhang> I stand corrected :)
	[03:32] <Hobbsee> bazhang: it's a good thought though
	[03:32] <bazhang> s/developers/useful people
	[03:33] <nickrud> I used to lurk there years ago when I first started irc'ing, like I monitored debian-devel mail list when I was doing this mostly by email; and it is boring all too often
	[03:33] <bazhang> not counting myself among the useful, obviously<--apart from the wrongful bans I set
	[03:33] <Hobbsee> bazhang: you're useful people.
	[03:34] <Hobbsee> DBO, on the other hand... :P
	[03:34] <bazhang> haha
	[03:34] <Hobbsee> seems to prefer vanishing off the face of the planet.
	[03:34] * Hobbsee wonders what other channels had highlights in them
	[03:36] <DBO> Hobbsee, im useless
	[03:36] <DBO> i knows it
	[03:36] <Hobbsee> awwww
	[03:36] <Hobbsee> DBO: you'd be useful if you stayed around :P
	[03:36] <DBO> =P
	[03:36] <DBO> drop by #gnome-do some time
	[03:37] <DBO> im there all the time developing wonderful software
	[03:37] <DBO> who do you think gave it such a pretty interface
	[03:37] <Hobbsee> ooh :D
	[03:37] <Hobbsee> now then you're definetly useful
	[03:37] <Hobbsee> i didn't know you worked on gnome-do
	[03:39] <DBO> #2 in all of gnome-do =)
	[03:39] <Hobbsee> bazhang: hmmm. do you know if anyone's taught emma about idle time yet?
	[03:40] <bazhang> Hobbsee, not sure; as in afk?
	[03:40] <Hobbsee> bazhang: as in the idle time when you do a /whois
	[03:40] <bazhang> gnome-do is very nice. :)
	[03:40] <Hobbsee> [12:40] [Whois] bazhang has been idle for 3 seconds.
	[03:41] <bazhang> Hobbsee, just guessing she has mastered irc by this point :)
	[03:41] <Hobbsee> bazhang: she probably hasn't. she seems to be good at some things, and know close to nothing about others.
	[03:42] <Hobbsee> makes me start to wonder if ompaul's theory is right.
	[03:42] <bazhang> Hobbsee, then the logs will be instructive :)
	[03:42] * ajmitch wonders what this mysterious theory is
	[03:43] <Hobbsee> tis a mystery
	[03:49] <nickrud> Daviey> I really think that posted statement is a poor example of "[not] behaving appropriately". <Nafallo> elky_work: "no. I'm in a meeting at the moment. please pm and I can have a look when I've got more time." see... this is a proper answer and doesn't take that long to type :-)
	[03:49] <nickrud> damn
	[03:49] <Hobbsee> heh
	[03:49] <Hobbsee> hey now, at least you managed to paste something that started in this channel.
	[03:50] * Hobbsee suggests polite aliases, though, if required.
	[03:50] <nickrud> true enough but, double d
	[03:50] <Hobbsee> You sent me a contentless ping. This is a contentless pong. Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
	[03:50] <Hobbsee> type idea
	[03:50] <nickrud> nah, it's a reminder to someone who saw them originally
	[04:08] <bazhang> when does nickspam become spam? does seven changes in as many minutes qualify?
	[04:09] <nickrud> a couple times at all, really
	[04:09] <bazhang> and if the !nickspam are ignored, what is the next step?
	[04:09] <nickrud> a pm
	[04:09] <bazhang> I suspect it is a plugin
	[04:12] <nickrud> hm, max and jeremy just joined, and changed immediately to Guest*
	[04:12] <nickrud> erm max and kat
	[04:13] <bazhang> max has been doing it for close to an hour at least
	[04:13] <nickrud> has he answered a pm?
	[04:13] <bazhang> not yet :)
	[04:13] <Hobbsee> nixternal: bad proxy or something? and the nick security turned on. i doubt the guy is there.
	[04:14] <Hobbsee> that sounds like ping timeouts, + the nick security or so
	[04:14] * nickrud is lost
	[04:14] <bazhang> one guy (kamus_h_zwisch) had multiple nick changing plugins enabled
	[04:15] <nickrud> I gotta go get some food, later
	[04:15] <Hobbsee> er, nickrud, not nixternal
	[04:16] <Hobbsee> sorry
	[04:27] <bazhang> I understand security, but max has changed nicks like 25 times in the last 30 mins or so, and no response to !nickspam or PM
	[04:27] <Hobbsee> bazhang: i really doubt he's actually there.
	[04:28] <bazhang> Hobbsee, okay; will just ignore him then.
	[04:28] <Hobbsee> bazhang: you can forward him to ##fix-your-connection or something, too.
	[04:28] <Hobbsee> that's the usual way of dealing with seriously distracting stuff like that
	[04:29] <Hobbsee> (although whether it matters in the general noise of #ubuntu, i'm not sure)
	[04:29] <bazhang> Hobbsee, thanks for the suggestion :)
	[04:29] <Hobbsee> and make sure he knows to visit us here when he does
	[04:29] <Hobbsee> y/w
	[04:30] <Hobbsee> but trying to get him to change behaviour, when all the signs are that he's not there and is having connection problems, is probably just a waste of time
	[04:30] <Hobbsee> tis the equivalent of talking to a wall.
	[04:30] <bazhang> agreed. :)
	[04:30] <Hobbsee> :)
	[04:32] <Hobbsee> [13:32] [Whois] max is enforcer@services. (Held for nickname owner)
	[04:32] <Hobbsee> [13:32] [Whois] max is online via services. (Atheme IRC Services).
	[04:32] <Hobbsee> [13:32] [Whois] End of WHOIS list.
	[04:32] <Hobbsee> interesting. tis definetly the enforcer.
	[04:33] <bazhang> hehe
	[04:34] <nickrud> Hobbsee are you a teacher?
	[04:34] <Hobbsee> nixternal: ...no? well, not normally, anyway.
	[04:34] <ajmitch> now there's a scary thought
	[04:34] <bazhang> poor nix :)
	[04:35] <nickrud> talking to a wall, that's the most common complaint from teachers I know
	[04:35] <Hobbsee> haha
	[04:35] * Hobbsee does some ad-hoc tutoring in the labs occasonally
	[04:35] <Hobbsee> but i don't know that that qualifies as "teaching"
	[05:05] <elky_work> I am recieving unsolicted PMs from emma.
	[05:05] <elky_work> [Mon Jun 16 2008] [11:09:50] <emma> PriceChild: I have been told by Hobbsee and by elky_work that I am never to pm them.
	[05:05] <elky_work> [Mon Jun 16 2008] [11:10:10] <elky_work> i only recall saying 'while im at work'
	[05:05] <elky_work> [Mon Jun 16 2008] [11:10:17] <elky_work> which means, never this nick
	[05:06] * Hobbsee twiddles thumbs.
	[05:06] <Hobbsee> yes, we have users who obey the rules, and so deserve more priveledges. somewhere.
	=== Jucato_ is now known as Jucato
	[08:02] <jussi01> moring all
	=== elkbuntu` is now known as elkbuntu
	[09:58] <elkbuntu> emma, i am now using a nickname you may message me on, however considering your earlier disrespect for my expressed and acknowledged (by you) wish to not be PM'd by you on my work nick, I strongly doubt you will find any favour at all from me.
	[10:12] <elkbuntu> who else is awake. kahrytan is being disruptive in #ubuntu and now insolent in PM
	[10:12] <elkbuntu> hence i'll be accused of all sorts of stuff if i need to remove him
	[10:15] <jussi01> elkbuntu: whats happening?
	[10:15] * jussi01 goes to watch #ubuntu
	[10:18] <elkbuntu> jussi01, he's defying all attempts to answer his mail, and telling me i cant speak to him until he receives an already received apology.
	[10:19] <elkbuntu> er, s/mail/question/
	[10:19] <jussi01> elkbuntu: pm?
	[10:20] <ikonia> looks like you've had an interesting day already
	[10:20] <elkbuntu> ikonia, no kidding
	[10:21] <elkbuntu> she pm'd me twice, and told me it wasnt unsolicited and ordered me to answer a third time before i reported here.
	[10:21] * Hobbsee snorts
	[10:21] <Hobbsee> did you tell her you were human, and so therefore were not required to put up with her abuse?
	[10:22] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, no, i ignored her and reported the abuse here.
	[10:22] <elkbuntu> she can only engage in PM's with me while i'm at work if she wants to pay my employer my hourly rate to do so.
	[10:23] <elkbuntu> since i dont hold any trust for her, this payment must be in advance.
	[10:23] <Hobbsee> yes, but since when does reporting PM abuse here actually work?
	[10:24] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, never, but i wanted a record of the incident to be in public logs.
	[10:24] <Hobbsee> and who will read and deal with it?
	[10:26] <elkbuntu> one would assume the people who promised they would take things seriously such as tomaw, since im nor the council are able to act on it for conflict of interest. surely i have as much rights as a user, right?
	[10:27] <Hobbsee> no. you're an op.
	[10:27] <elkbuntu> of course.
	[10:27] <Hobbsee> that means you don't get user rights, such as being able to ignore people
	[10:27] <Hobbsee> or to be allowed to stuff up, without it being held against you forever.
	[10:28] <jussi01> Hobbsee: ops are supposed to be perfect :P
	[10:28] <Hobbsee> jussi01: exactly.
	[10:35] * tomaw beeps
	[10:37] <jussi01> hello tomaw
	[10:38] <tomaw> hi
	[10:39] <Hobbsee> someone might want to help eviltim.
	[10:39] <ikonia> he's on the list
	[10:39] <ikonia> I'm getting there
	[10:40] <ikonia> kahrytan is going to be a real problem shortly
	[10:41] <elkbuntu> tomaw, we're going to need to ask for you to deal with kahrytan. we as in the ops team cannot touch him without it sparking weeks of abuse both here and by email.
	[10:41] <ikonia> I need help with him now please
	[10:41] <ikonia> he's making miss-leading comments about me
	[10:43] <elkbuntu> are you sure you want to be an op anywhere ever?
	[10:43] <tomaw> I am at work but will help where I can
	[10:50] <Hobbsee> ikonia: no point giving him step by step help if he's not going to give suffiicient info, methinks.
	[10:50] <ikonia> I know
	[10:50] <ikonia> this is a 2 minute thing to fix
	[10:50] <ikonia> but he then starts slating people "X can't help" or "Y won'y help"
	[10:50] <Hobbsee> yeah, but he wants to be ornery, so he can have the pointers, and he can fix it from there.
	[10:51] <ikonia> ornery ?
	[10:51] <elkbuntu> ikonia, ready to use fists
	[10:52] <Hobbsee> ikonia: "a bloody pain in the neck"
	[10:52] <Hobbsee> :)
	[10:52] <ikonia> ahhh
	[10:53] <ikonia> not a common uk word
	[10:56] * Mez has never heard of ornery
	[10:57] <ikonia> uk again
	[11:03] <Hobbsee> (hurrah, kah's problem is fixed)
	[11:03] <elkbuntu> in the way he's been told fifty million times?
	[11:04] <jussi01> stdin: ping
	[11:04] <ikonia> Hobbsee: I don't understand this security on uuid's but he's happy to give his user name and ip address out to a 1000+ user channel?
	[11:06] <Hobbsee> ikonia: class it as insanity. problem solved.
	[11:06] <Hobbsee> or temporary insanity. or not thinking. any of the above.
	[11:07] <ikonia> as long as he's working - it doesn't matter, just a 30 second fix has to be dragged kicking and screaming out
	[11:10] <elkbuntu> im not sure there's anything temporary about him
	[11:12] <jussi01> just a FYI - its likely we will have no ubottu for around 1/2 - 1 hour this afternoon (in ~5hours time) while i get some shinier hampsters for her :)
	[11:14] <ikonia> jussi01: thats a drag, it's funny how much ubottu/$BOT makes a difference to such a busy channel
	[11:14] <jussi01> ikonia: Im possibly arranging her clone - but it shouldnt take long - im overesimating there for a just in case scenario
	[11:15] <ikonia> no no, not moaning, just recently with ubottu / ubotu etc being in flux it's funny to see what a service it does actually provide
	[13:38] <ubottu> In #ubuntu, karabash said: ubottu: what You sent is nothing usefull there
	[13:40] <Mez> !bot > karabash
	[13:41] <Pici> Already talked to him
	[13:41] <Mez> ah :D
	[14:14] <jussio1> Lads and Ladies, Bot is going down for roughly 15-30 mins while I upgrade the server
	[14:15] <Pici> jussio1: Can we get the backup bots up before you start?
	[14:15] <ikonia> has that
	[14:15] <ikonia> hows
	[14:16] <jussio1> Pici: stdin or myrtti can help.
	[14:16] <Pici> manual_bot: lag
	[14:16] <jussio1> I need to do this NOW as I have limited time
	[14:16] <Pici> :O
	[14:16] <ikonia> ?hello ;)
	[14:16] <Pici> stdin_: ping
	[14:16] <Pici> wow, myrtti isnt on
	[14:17] <ikonia> can we not manage and just give a little extra attention to the core channels #ubuntu #kubuntu etc
	[14:19] * Hobbsee flails, due to no bot
	[14:19] <Hobbsee> we must have the bot! we must! we must!
	[14:20] <Pici> hi!
	[14:21] <ikonia> Pici: now thats service !
	[14:21] <Myrtti> hullo
	[14:21] <Pici> Myrtti: poke
	[14:22] * Myrtti is poked
	[14:22] <Pici> I can has ubotu backup?
	[14:22] <Pici> ubottu just went down due to a server upgrade
	[14:22] <elkbuntu> this is going to hurt...
	[14:23] <elkbuntu> please work please work please work
	[14:23] <elkbuntu> SHE SHOOTS, SHE SCORES!
	[14:23] <Pici> elkbuntu: I didn't think that would work
	[14:24] <elkbuntu> Pici, i figured, at worst, it wouldnt ;)
	[14:25] <ikonia> seems ok
	[14:25] <elkbuntu> it's far more useful there than here
	[14:25] <ikonia> not to busy in #ubuntu
	[14:25] * Myrtti is having a blank moment
	[14:25] <Myrtti> Pici: well whaddaya know
	[14:26] <Pici> Myrtti: Dont worry about it, elkbuntu did some magic
	[14:26] <Myrtti> the Jackass managed to get the POS virtual server back online yesterday
	[14:26] <Myrtti> he has said nothing to me about it, I just found out by doing ssh myrtti.foo
	[14:26] <elkbuntu> heh
	[14:27] <Myrtti> and it answered "hello plz speek mate and entah"
	[14:27] <Myrtti> and I speaketh "MELLON"
	[14:27] <Myrtti> and it answered
	[14:28] <Myrtti> 16:27:55 up 1 day, 1:29, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
	[14:49] <Myrtti> so, what's the status atm?
	[14:49] * Myrtti notes the punching bag is still swinging in the corner of the channel
	[14:50] <Pici> Myrtti: mc44?
	[14:50] <Pici> ubot3 is in #ubuntu, ubottu's box is presumably upgrading
	[14:52] <jussio1> and we are back up
	[14:52] <jussio1> she will be in in a sec
	[14:53] <Myrtti> ooohhh
	[14:53] <Pici> Myrtti has good timing today..
	[14:53] <elkbuntu> i'll clear ubot3 back into here then
	[14:53] <Myrtti> THANK YOU FOR PURCHASING WINDOWS XP
	[14:53] <Myrtti> Kill kill kill kill kill kill
	[14:54] <jussio1> :)
	[14:54] <Pici> !test
	[14:55] <jussio1> Pici: wait, she is syncing still
	[14:55] * Pici waits
	[14:55] <jussio1> she has like 70 channels to join
	[14:55] * Myrtti smacks Pici on the fingers
	[14:55] <Pici> Yes'm
	[14:55] <jussio1> ok, back in a bit
	[14:55] <elkbuntu> werks a treet :)
	[14:56] <ubottu> Failed!
	[15:19] <Myrtti> !test
	[15:19] <ubottu> Failed!
	[15:23] <jussi01> back again :D
	[15:23] <Pici> aye
	[15:23] <jussi01> shinier hampsters are go!
	[15:23] <jussi01> :D
	[15:24] <Hobbsee> oh dear.
	=== stdin_ is now known as stdin
	[15:24] <Pici> stdin: nevermind
	[15:24] <stdin> Pici: yeah, I saw
	[15:25] <Pici> I only just remembered that I pinged you
	[15:38] <jpds> Hobbsee: is lukehasnoname in -motu strange to you?
	[15:39] <Hobbsee> jpds: unsure, i've been ignoring him.
	[15:39] <Hobbsee> apparently he was asking strange stuff in -server a few days ago
	[15:39] <jpds> Hobbsee: yeah, he's been on like this for days
	[15:48] <ikonia> jpds: he was odd in -server on Wednesday of last week
	[16:22] <ubottu> soundray called the ops in #ubuntu (Otilio)
	[16:24] <jrib> hello Otilio, how may we help you?
	[16:24] <Otilio> no
	[16:24] <Otilio> ningun español? ohh
	[16:25] <jrib> !es \| Otilio
	[16:25] <ubottu> Otilio: En la mayoría de canales Ubuntu se comunica en inglés. Para ayuda en Español, por favor entre en los canales #ubuntu-es o #kubuntu-es.
	[16:25] <bazhang> !es
	[16:25] <Otilio> okey okey
	[16:25] <Mez> ¿Otilio, cómo podemos ayudar?
	[16:25] <Daviey> Otilio: this is generally where people come when they have been banned from the main Ubuntu channels. I see a ban was just placed on you?
	[16:25] <Jack_Sparrow> Daviey Yes.. in Ubuntu
	[16:27] <Mez> ¿Otilio, usted entiende porqué usted fue prohibido de #ubuntu?
	[16:27] <Otilio> Si, pero ahora mismo no estoy haciendo nada
	[16:28] <Otilio> Solo curioseaba, ¿entiende usted?
	[16:28] <Mez> Otilio, Usted maldecía y era grosero a nuestros operadores.
	[16:29] <Otilio> Maldecia?
	[16:29] <Otilio> una cosa es maldecir y otra muy distinta es insultar
	[16:30] <Mez> ¿Apesadumbrado, yo no entiende lo que ese significa Otilio, puede usted intentar otra vez?
	[16:30] <Mez> (Malecia)
	[16:30] <Mez> <Otilio> shit channel
	[16:30] <Mez> <bazhang> no cursing Otilio
	[16:31] <Mez> <Otilio> shut up bazhang
	[16:31] <PriceChild> If he doesn't want to speak english, then he doesn't need to be in #ubuntu?
	[16:31] <Mez> Usted era algo grosero, por ninguna razón. ¿Puede usted leer inglés correctamente?
	[16:31] <Otilio> Suspendí inglés, es lógico que no entienda
	[16:32] <Mez> Entonces usted debe utilizar los canales españoles algo que interrumpiendo los ingleses Otilio.
	[16:33] <Otilio> ¿Y usted entiende que yo solo entré por curiosidad?
	[16:34] <Mez> Eso puede estar así pues, pero usted interrumpió el canal. Cuál no es agradable. el #ubuntu es alto tráfico, gente que interrumpe el flujo no es agradable. Incluso fuera de curiosidad.
	[16:35] <Mez> ¿Otilio, sabe usted hablar inglés?
	[16:35] <Otilio> que te den
	[16:36] <Mez> seems he agreed with me..
	[16:36] <Mez> "I give you that" ?
	[16:36] <Jack_Sparrow> My spanish is very rusty but I got the jist of that.
	[16:37] <Mez> twas basically along the lines of
	[16:37] <Mez> "do yuo know why you were banned"
	[16:37] <Mez> "I didnt do anything"
	[16:37] <Mez> "<logs>"
	[16:37] <Mez> "you were rather rude and disrupted the channel"
	[16:37] <Mez> "I joined cause I was curious"
	[16:38] <Mez> "you still disrupted the channel, you should use the spanish ones rather than the english ones. Disruption is not welcome, even out of curiosiry"
	[16:38] <Mez> s/ry/ty/
	[16:38] <Mez> "I give you that"
	[16:38] <Mez> "<quit>"
	[16:38] <Jack_Sparrow> Thanks for handling that..
	[16:38] <Mez> no problem.
	[16:39] <bazhang> nice mastery of spanish Mez :)
	[16:39] <Mez> bazhang, it comes in useful ;)
	[16:39] <Jack_Sparrow> I agree I pulled the trigger a bit fast, but I also msg'd him quickly to please join us in here .. which he did
	[16:39] <bazhang> clearly :)
	[16:40] <Mez> :D
	[16:41] <Mez> Idiomas extranjeros para el triunfo
	[16:41] <Mez> (foreign languages ftw!)
	[16:41] <bazhang> haha
	[16:43] <Jack_Sparrow> I'll go pull the ban
	[16:43] <Mez> Jack_Sparrow, cool... just keep an eye out for him
	[16:43] <Jack_Sparrow> Yep..
	[16:44] <Mez> PriceChild, he obv did speak english, from the backlog... but easier to deal with in spanish
	[16:44] <PriceChild> yes..
	[16:45] <Jack_Sparrow> I agree with the idea that talking to him in spanish helped everyone
	[16:48] <Myrtti> that's why I pull the Finnish id-er abusers aside with Finnish
	[16:48] <Pici> takk
	[16:48] * Pici doesnt know any Finnish
	[16:48] <Jack_Sparrow> Those Finnish.. such an abusive bunch
	[16:49] <Myrtti> ♥
	[16:49] <bazhang> I think we're finished here.
	[16:49] <Myrtti> Finnished?
	[16:49] <jussi01> Pici: "thanks" in finnish is "Kiitos" :) now you know 1 word
	[16:49] <Pici> jussi01: yay
	[16:49] <bazhang> hehe
	[16:49] <Pici> kiitos
	[16:49] <jussi01> ole hyvä :)
	[16:49] <Mez> is that like mentos ?
	[16:49] <Myrtti> ♥
	[16:50] <Pici> The Freshmaker?
	[16:50] <Myrtti> this is so cute
	[16:50] <Myrtti> "Those Finnish, such an abusive bunch. Came here with their IRC RFC's and ssh'es and Linuxes and ruined it ALL"
	[16:50] <Myrtti> "damnit"
	[16:51] <Mez> how do you say "finish" in finnish
	[16:51] <Myrtti> as in to finish something?
	[16:51] <Mez> yeah
	[16:51] <bazhang> suomi-nese
	[16:51] <Mez> or a finish on something
	[16:51] <Myrtti> lopettaa
	[16:52] <Myrtti> do you want to know the past tenses and the plurals?
	[16:52] <Mez> No
	[16:52] * Mez runs
	[16:52] <jussi01> hehe
	[16:53] <jussi01> Mez: you should see them - you would be suprised how crazy they are...
	[16:53] <Jack_Sparrow> <_anna> <icqnumber_> probiere opensuse, in 3 tage ist die raus! anna says this is spam..?
	[16:53] <bazhang> probably in a PM
	[16:53] <Pici> no, its in the channel
	[16:54] <Mez> german?
	[16:54] <bazhang> she said it in channel
	[16:54] <Pici> Mez: da
	[16:54] <Myrtti> I don't see a problem with someone saying that
	[16:54] <Mez> bad german
	[16:54] <Myrtti> sure, go ahead and try opensuse
	[16:54] <Mez> "try opensuse in 3 meet is raus"
	[16:55] <Pici> 3 meet is raus?
	[16:55] <Pici> icqnumber_ has only said that, I dont think its really grounds for action yet.
	[16:55] <Mez> I think they meant "3 days"
	[16:55] <Mez> no idea what raus means
	[16:56] <bazhang> icq did not say it in channel however
	[16:56] <Mez> unless they mean rausch
	[16:56] <Myrtti> out in 3 days
	[16:56] <Myrtti> as it is
	[16:57] <Pici> bazhang: oh, oops
	[16:57] <Myrtti> Mez: you've not seen enough German comedies
	[16:57] <Mez> Myrtti, it's not a german word
	[16:57] <Myrtti> it's not?
	[16:57] <Mez> "raus" isnt
	[16:58] * Myrtti has studied German for one semester in Applied Uni
	[16:58] <Myrtti> no, actually two
	[16:58] * Mez just looked up in a german dictionary
	[16:58] <Myrtti> and I've lent my books to a friend
	[16:58] <Myrtti> two years ago.
	[16:58] <Myrtti> damn.
	[16:58] <Mez> the closest word is "rausch" - which means drunk
	[16:58] <Mez> and tage should be tagen
	[16:59] <bazhang> wow double ban
	[16:59] <Mez> ?
	[16:59] <Jack_Sparrow> Nah.. I just muted
	[17:00] <Pici> I removed
	[17:00] <bazhang> just now in ubuntu Jack and Pic-i
	[17:00] <Pici> Jack_Sparrow: feel free to remove my ban though
	[17:00] <Mez> and floodbot mute
	[17:01] <bazhang> ward_ looks strangely familiar
	[17:01] <Pici> nope
	[17:01] <bazhang> ward1983 perhaps
	[17:02] <bazhang> ward_ is now known as Ward1983
	[17:04] <Myrtti> now doesn't that ring a bell ;-)
	[17:04] <Pici> not really.
	[17:04] <bazhang> hehe
	[17:04] <Myrtti> Pici: not really?
	[17:05] <Jack_Sparrow> bazhang I think you are right.. best keep an eye on him
	[17:05] <Pici> Myrtti: Either I have bad memory, or I dont really remember him
	[17:05] <Myrtti> last night, Bard1984?
	[17:05] <Mez> sponge! the most useful tool ever
	[17:05] <bazhang> he always comes in and complains about how broken ubuntu is
	[17:05] <Myrtti> or -10hrs or so
	[17:05] <Pici> I really havent been a round for a few days
	[17:05] <Myrtti> good for you
	[17:05] <bazhang> diff from baron1984
	[17:06] <Pici> I've been up in Vermont since Friday
	[17:06] <Myrtti> oh, was it baron1984?
	[17:06] <Myrtti> mmmmm Vermont
	[17:06] <bazhang> Pici, that sounds really nice
	[17:06] <Pici> It was. :)
	[17:06] <bazhang> hope you had some maple syrup :)
	[17:06] <Pici> I did. My parents actually bought a small log cabin up there
	[17:07] <bazhang> wow that's amazing :)
	[17:08] <Pici> It was beautiful there
	[17:12] <Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSJzUDp3ey0 <-- guinea pig video, though you can only see a little of Aleksi in it
	[17:37] * Myrtti sighs
	[17:42] <ntn2002dz> hi, anyone know how ton install firefox 3 rc3 on ubuntu 8.04, I have tar.bz2 file
	[17:42] <Myrtti> @btlogin
	[17:43] <ntn2002dz> can some one help me please
	[17:43] <Myrtti> ntn2002dz: how did you know to come here?
	[17:43] <Jack_Sparrow> ntn2002dz What channel did you try to join?
	[17:43] <Myrtti> this isn't the support channel
	[17:44] <ntn2002dz> ubuntu-ops
	[17:44] <Myrtti> have you asked in #ubuntu?
	[17:44] <ntn2002dz> sorry where can i find the support chanel?
	[17:44] <Myrtti> (and basically you shouldn't bypass the package management)
	[17:45] <Myrtti> the rc3 and the final ff3 will be in the repositories in due time
	[17:45] <Myrtti> the support channel is #ubuntu
	[17:45] <ntn2002dz> for 17 june!
	[17:45] <ntn2002dz> I can wait for tomorrow lol
	[17:49] <Myrtti> ntn2002dz: did you have any other questions?
	[17:49] <Pici> ntn2002dz: If you have a support question, you are free to /join #ubuntu you are not currently in a support channel, see the /topic
	[17:50] <ntn2002dz> no thnks juste support ff ,don't miss tomorrow http://www.spreadfirefox.com/en-US/worldrecord/
	[17:50] <ntn2002dz> tnks for all bye
	[17:52] <Myrtti> bye
	[17:56] <Myrtti> heads up: 19:46 < codecaine> where can I find a girlfriend that uses ubuntu?
	[17:57] <Pici> Not really apropriate for #ubuntu
	[17:57] <Myrtti> oh rreeeehhheeeehheally?
	[17:58] <Pici> :P
	[17:59] <Myrtti> I thought about answering to him "well gee, I wonder why you've not found any girlfriend" but...
	[18:01] <Myrtti> that would've been a blow under the belt, n'est pas?
	[18:09] <ubottu> In ubottu, unavailable said: michael is Michael is a name
	[18:09] <Pici> ...
	[18:16] * Myrtti rolls
	[18:26] <ubottu> In #ubuntu, soundray said: ubottu: no, mountiso =~ s/the ISO/downloaded ISOs/
	[18:26] <Myrtti> !mountiso
	[18:26] <ubottu> To mount an ISO disc image, type « sudo mount -o loop <ISO-filename> <mountpoint> » or use the "gmountiso" package - There is a list of useful cd image conversion tools at http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/CD_Image_Conversion - Always verify the ISO using !MD5 before !burning.
	[18:27] <Myrtti> @login
	[18:27] <ubottu> Myrtti: The operation succeeded.
	[18:27] <Myrtti> !mountiso =~ /the ISO/downloaded ISO images/
	[18:27] <ubottu> I'll remember that Myrtti
	[18:27] <Myrtti> !mountiso
	[18:27] <ubottu> To mount an ISO disc image, type « sudo mount -o loop <ISO-filename> <mountpoint> » or use the "gmountiso" package - There is a list of useful cd image conversion tools at http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/CD_Image_Conversion - Always verify downloaded ISO images using !MD5 before !burning.
	[18:28] <Pici> Myrtti: pm?
	[18:29] <Myrtti> sure
	[18:32] <hotpocket> Its been more then 72 hours, whats the verdict on me getting unbanned from #ubuntu?
	[18:45] <jrib> hmm
	[18:46] <jrib> hotpocket: wait for jack_sparrow to be around. It seems like the ban tracker shows him removing your ban, but it seems to have been reinstated during a netsplit
	[18:46] <tonyyarusso> Hmm, why is irssi reporting the #ubuntu was created in 2006?
	[18:47] <hotpocket> jrib: what?
	[18:47] <hotpocket> netsplit?
	[18:47] <Pici> !netsplit
	[18:47] <ubottu> netsplit is when two IRC servers of the same network (like Freenode) disconnect from each other, so users on one server stop seeing users on the other. If this is happening now, just relax and enjoy the show. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
	[18:47] <jrib> hotpocket: if you're not sure what I said, just pretend I said the first sentence only
	[18:47] <hotpocket> oh ok
	[18:50] <jrib> hotpocket: what did you do originally?
	[18:50] * stdin thinks we should ban !lol@ :\|
	[18:52] * Myrtti thinks we should ban !@*
	[18:52] <jrib> Jack_Sparrow: hi, hotpocket is here. The ban tracker shows you removing the ban, but then it got reinstated by irc.freenode.net during a netsplit. Is that what happened?
	[18:53] <jrib> hotpocket = connor I think
	[18:53] <hotpocket> yes i am connor
	[18:54] <Jack_Sparrow> We agreed to review him at 4 or 5 days, I was unaware of the irc.freenode.. ban but I am not surpriesed giving thier behavior
	[18:54] <jrib> Jack_Sparrow: so you never removed the ban?
	[18:54] <Jack_Sparrow> Sorry.. sticky keyboard... one sec
	[18:54] <hotpocket> k
	[18:55] <jrib> the irc.freenode.net thing is some automated thing that happens during netsplits
	[18:56] <Jack_Sparrow> We agreed to the review.. Conner.. are you going to try and obey the rules of the channel.
	[18:58] <Jack_Sparrow> The behavior of those two (in ops and elsewhere) was clearly out of line
	[18:59] <Jack_Sparrow> jrib.. I have four things going on here and someone at the door... I trust your judgement if you care to review it
	[18:59] <Jack_Sparrow> I'll be lurking while I try to handle a couple of things.
	[19:00] <jrib> Jack_Sparrow: ok
	[19:00] <hotpocket> So uh, jrib, is the ban being lifted?
	[19:01] <jrib> hotpocket: can you tell me what you did to get banned?
	[19:01] <hotpocket> Uh basically, I was with my friend, in #ubuntu, he was spamming a whole lot, and I was saying stuff like LMAO, and I wasn't really spamming, I barely did, but I guess you could say I did, and thats how I got banned
	[19:01] <jrib> !guidelines
	[19:01] <ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
	[19:02] <Jack_Sparrow> jrib You can look at the log for ops.. was it thursday
	[19:02] <jrib> hotpocket: take a few minutes to read throught that now and let me know if you agree to them
	[19:02] <hotpocket> Ok
	[19:03] <hotpocket> Wait, we were in #ubuntu-offtopic, not #ubuntu
	[19:03] <hotpocket> But for some reason I got banned from #ubuntu, even though I never spam there and I help people out in that channel
	[19:04] <jrib> k
	[19:04] <Jack_Sparrow> jrib http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/06/12/%23ubuntu-ops.txt right at the top
	[19:05] <Jack_Sparrow> it goes on and on and on
	[19:05] <Jack_Sparrow> conner PriceChild made it clear that he would ban you in any ubuntu channel you showed up in
	[19:06] <hotpocket> Yes
	[19:06] <Jack_Sparrow> You have repeatedly ignored my requests in ubuntu to not repeat, use enter and flood
	[19:06] <hotpocket> I have?
	[19:06] <Jack_Sparrow> yes
	[19:06] <hotpocket> Didn't realize that I was
	[19:07] <hotpocket> I use #kubuntu to help out people and it doesn't seem like I do that a whole lot =/
	[19:34] <ubottu> In #ubuntu, emma said: !there is a small grammatical error in the kwin factoid (trying to help)
	[19:34] <Pici> !kwin
	[19:34] <ubottu> Factoid kwin not found
	[19:34] <Pici> !kwin-#kubuntu
	[19:34] <ubottu> Factoid kwin-#kubuntu not found
	[19:35] <Pici> !kwin-#kubuntu-kde4
	[19:35] <ubottu> In KDE4 Beta1 the kwin-kde4 package was replaced with the kde-window-manager package, it's fine if the package manager wants to remove kwin-kde4 and install kde-window-manager
	[19:35] <ubottu> In #kubuntu-kde4, emma said: !there is a non-zero probability that it is only in this channel (just occured to me)
	[19:44] <ikonia> .....what now
	[19:44] <Pici> I think I sorted it
	[19:46] <jrib> maybe if I just ignore him, he will get the idea
	=== seanw is now known as sean
	=== sean is now known as seanw
	[19:59] * Pici wonders why floodbot1 didnt have ops
	[20:02] <nalioth> they take turns
	[21:00] <jpds> ikonia: probably just some clueless guy.
	[21:33] <Mez> http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/132
	=== tomaw_ is now known as tomaw
	[22:17] <nalioth> not sure why y'all are waiting on me. my vote has not changed from its original state.
	[22:31] * gnomefreak smoke lost
	[22:40] <PriceChild> right so thats 2 for, 1 against, no response from ljl
	[22:40] <PriceChild> The council votes to unban emma in the channels we manage.
	[22:40] <PriceChild> Apart from -offtopics.
	[22:41] * Mez thinks that the council members/absentees needs to be addressed
	[22:41] <PriceChild> Mez: hmm?
	[22:42] <Mez> well the council is down one member
	[22:42] <PriceChild> yep, and needs to be sorted out
	[22:42] <Mez> and LjL has been inactive for a long time
	[22:42] <PriceChild> thankfully it is not affecting our decisions yet
	[22:42] <PriceChild> s/decisions/operations.
	[22:43] <Mez> thats what I was saying ;)
	[22:43] <jussi01> So when will new council member/s be added?
	[22:43] <PriceChild> I was just saying also :)
	[22:43] <Mez> how were the members selected last time?
	[22:43] <Mez> and how long ago?
	[22:43] <PriceChild> nalioth: elkbuntu perhaps we should start thinking about taking nominations, for us to forward to the CC as the process is written.
	[22:44] <PriceChild> Mez: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil says how things are done
	[22:45] <Mez> cheer
	[22:45] <Mez> s
	[22:45] * Mez waits for browser to work
	[22:46] <jussi01> PriceChild: is the above decision re: Emma effective immediately?
	[22:47] <PriceChild> jussi01: I don't see why not.
	[22:47] <jussi01> PriceChild: ok, Ill go do it in #kubuntu then
	[22:47] <jussi01> hahah
	[22:48] * Mez wonders what jussi01 is laughing at
	[22:48] <jussi01> Mez: see #kubuntu
	[22:50] <Mez> i dont see anything amusing?
	[22:50] <Mez> am i missing something
	[22:51] <Mez> oh
	[22:51] <Mez> I see now
	[22:51] <Mez> PriceChild, you need to learn how to aim ;)
	[22:51] <PriceChild> Mez: hmm?
	[22:51] <jussi01> Mez: the funny thing was he was doing it as I said I would...
	[22:51] <Mez> op/deop without any unban (which is what i presume you were trying to do)
	[22:52] <PriceChild> Mez: I was about to unban in there, got pinged in here, saw jussi was going to, so went back and deoped to let him.
	[22:52] <jussi01> yes, exactly what I though
	[22:52] <jussi01> t
	[22:52] * Mez thought it was a misfire
	[22:53] <jussi01> uh oh
	[22:57] <Mez> w00t for google recruiters
	[22:58] <PriceChild> I've only ever had one of them, I don't feel popular.
	[22:59] <Mez> What happened with yours PriceChild ?
	[22:59] * jussi01 goes to bed
	[22:59] <PriceChild> i explained i really wasn't what they were looking for
	[23:00] <Mez> Why werent you ?
	[23:01] <PriceChild> Because they were looking for experienced coders and engineers.
	[23:01] <PriceChild> Which I'm kind of not... at all.
	[23:01] <Mez> and you dont feel youre good enough?
	[23:01] <Mez> ah - I thought you were a little devvie?
	[23:02] <PriceChild> I wish I was.
	[23:02] <Mez> they're actually pushing me towards the sysadmin side of things
	[23:02] * Mez hugs PriceChild
	[23:03] * Myrtti yawns, arises from the damned Windows exile
	[23:03] * PriceChild tacklehugs Myrtti
	[23:03] <Mez> PriceChild, tsk tsk
	[23:03] <Mez> use the correct term
	[23:03] <Mez> the word is "glomps"
	[23:03] <Myrtti> ungch
	[23:04] * Mez glomps Myrtti
	[23:04] <Myrtti> be gentle, I've got a baby guinea pig here
	[23:04] * Mez steals laku
	[23:04] <PriceChild> Guinea pigs are so funny
	[23:05] <Myrtti> Mez: you can have him
	[23:05] <PriceChild> they hide in tall grass with their bottoms sticking out.
	[23:05] <PriceChild> *they hide their head
	[23:05] <Myrtti> PriceChild: they also sing
	[23:05] <PriceChild> hehe
	[23:05] <PriceChild> tis a funny noise
	[23:06] <Mez> caveys are cute :D
	[23:07] * Myrtti pokes Mez
	[23:07] <Myrtti> how come your blogposts aggregate to Planet faster than mine. TIS UNFAIR
	[23:07] <Mez> why you poking me ?
	[23:07] <Mez> what'd I do now
	[23:07] <Mez> cept beat you at being aggregated :D
	[23:08] <Mez> Iunno - ask keybuk
	[23:08] <Mez> or jdub
	[23:08] * Myrtti checks her settings
	[23:08] <Myrtti> a-ha.
	[23:09] * Myrtti hides, puts away the pink fluffy pen of poking
	[23:09] * Mez chuckles
	[23:26] <Myrtti> heheh, now it's there
	[23:39] <mneptok> hmm
	[23:39] <mneptok> Myrtti uses RSSowl. Myrtti just got sexier. :)
	[23:40] <Myrtti> pft.
	[23:41] <Myrtti> it's just better than any other that I've used
	[23:41] <Myrtti> better in spying your friends facebook statuses than liferea, which got false positives on unread all the time
	[23:41] * Myrtti hides
	[23:42] <mneptok> Myrtti: i wanna be your false positive.
	[23:42] * Myrtti rolls her eyes
	[23:47] * Mez slaps mneptok
	[23:49] <Myrtti> ♥
	[23:56] <Myrtti> nini, love and hugs to all
	[23:56] <mneptok> oooo! a heart! Myrtti loves me and finds me attractive!
	[23:57] <mneptok> --AUTO-REPLY-- Myrtti: false psotive
	[23:57] <mneptok> :(
	[23:58] <Pici> poor mneptok
	[23:59] * Mez read that as
	[23:59] <Mez> <mneptok> oooo! a heart! Pici loves me and finds me attractive!