| [09:15] <kwwii> moin moin | |
| [09:15] <DanaG> Huh? | |
| [09:15] <DanaG> Random: /me is a unicode addict: | |
| [09:15] <DanaG> Running with ✂. And throwing ✈ at stuff. I ♥ Unicode! | |
| [09:15] <kwwii> :-) | |
| [09:16] <DanaG> Oh, what fun can be had in gucharmap. | |
| [09:16] <DanaG> And in the scim-tables-additional "LATEX" table. | |
| === elkbuntu is now known as elky | |
| [14:15] <nothlit`core> kwwii: cory's looking for you btw | |
| [17:36] <thebishop> hello | |
| [17:36] <thebishop> to what extent is Ubuntu reaching out to the DeviantArt and/or Flickr communities? | |
| [17:44] <troy_s> thebishop: This isn't about DeviantArt nor Flickr. | |
| [17:46] <thebishop> its about ubuntu artwork, right? | |
| [17:48] <thebishop> i was talking to some graphic designers over the weekend and they are all OSX/Photoshop users. with so many FOSS projects in need of more attractive artwork, it seems those social networks could help a lot | |
| [18:29] <troy_s> thebishop: No, it is not. | |
| [18:29] <troy_s> thebishop: The issue of which you speak is execution. | |
| [18:29] <troy_s> thebishop: Execution is a far ways along the line. | |
| [18:30] <troy_s> thebishop: Before execution, one must have the proper environment to permit execution to happen. | |
| [18:31] <thebishop> i'm not sure i follow | |
| [18:31] <troy_s> thebishop: And that is part of the problem. | |
| [18:32] <troy_s> thebishop: 1) "in need of more attractive artwork" More attractive -- define? | |
| [18:32] <troy_s> 2) Even if you arrive at a satisfactory answer, the following question would be "Is it desired?" | |
| [18:33] <thebishop> you don't think there's a perception that Ubuntu and/or linux in general is still fairly bland to look at? Compiz notwithstanding | |
| [18:34] <thebishop> i show it to my friends and they thing the effects are cool, but widgets, window borders and icons need improvement | |
| [18:35] <troy_s> thebishop: That is a rather grossly oversimplified statement. | |
| [18:35] <thebishop> "improvement" | |
| [18:35] <thebishop> ? | |
| [18:35] <troy_s> thebishop: Improvement. Again, it isn't that I disagree with you, but you seem to think that it is a simple thing to 1) achieve 2) implement given a particular culture. | |
| [18:35] <troy_s> thebishop: It is a vacuous term. | |
| [18:35] <thebishop> i never said that | |
| [18:36] <thebishop> more what i'm getting at is making Ubuntu/gnu/linux an attractive platform for artists the way it is currently a very attractive platform for coders | |
| [18:36] <troy_s> thebishop: Ok... _now_ you are speaking more clearly | |
| [18:37] <troy_s> thebishop: But you also said "Ubuntu", which would be Ubuntu 'main' correct? | |
| [18:37] <thebishop> which may also have the upstream benefit of more icon sets, themes, UI ideas, etc being available to everyone | |
| [18:38] <troy_s> thebishop: That is more dealt with by the 'is it desired' question. ;) Remember, the bulk of the developers and such are quite happy with Tango. | |
| [18:38] <thebishop> and Tango doesn't go away if other options are available | |
| [18:39] <thebishop> i certainly don't think Tango is bad | |
| [18:39] <troy_s> thebishop: Sure. And to that end there is nothing stopping you from developing an icon set. | |
| [18:39] <thebishop> i'm a coder, not an graphic designer | |
| [18:40] <troy_s> thebishop: That probably makes things more difficult. | |
| [18:40] <troy_s> thebishop: So I guess we have "improvement" that would be directed at someone. | |
| [18:41] <thebishop> right, which brings us back to the original question | |
| [18:41] <troy_s> thebishop: a UI idea that is directed at someone | |
| [18:41] <thebishop> is there any outreach to the big social networks for artwork | |
| [18:41] <troy_s> thebishop: and an icon set that is both directed at someone _and_ that someone else will need to complete. | |
| [18:42] <troy_s> thebishop: You still are missing the point unfortunately. 1) There is nothing stopping you from creating something / reaching out / etc. | |
| [18:42] <troy_s> thebishop: 2) There is the question of audience. Who is this for? Will it work? As well as other complications. | |
| [18:42] <troy_s> thebishop: 3) The question of whether or not the people who own and run the projects desire it. | |
| [18:43] <troy_s> thebishop: See a few problems / complications yet? | |
| [18:43] <thebishop> so long as the projects in question are theme-able and most of them are, it doesn't really matter if the maintainers/owners/contributers want it | |
| [18:43] <thebishop> and this is Free Software we're talking about | |
| [18:44] <thebishop> so "own" is a somewhat relative concept | |
| [18:45] <troy_s> thebishop: Sure... and that gets you back to my other statement. "Go forth and create" | |
| [18:45] <thebishop> i think some organization would be more effective than an individual | |
| [18:46] <troy_s> thebishop: Then establish it. | |
| [18:46] <troy_s> thebishop: I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that the simplicity that you wish to see is simply non existent. | |
| [18:46] <thebishop> some already exist (Ubuntu art, Canonical, etc) | |
| [18:46] <thebishop> it seems like a question of marketing more than a technical issue | |
| [18:47] <thebishop> which has been a traditional weakness of Free Software | |
| [18:47] <thebishop> which is partly why such organizations are developed | |
| [18:49] <troy_s> thebishop: And yet ubuntu grows at a tremendous pace regardless. | |
| [18:50] <thebishop> and that's great | |
| [18:50] <thebishop> but who is it attracting? | |
| [18:55] <troy_s> thebishop: Now you are starting to sound like me... ;) | |
| [18:56] <thebishop> ? | |
| [18:56] <DanaG> I use the Tangerine icons, myself. | |
| [18:56] <troy_s> thebishop: I couldn't answer your question for a start. | |
| [18:57] <troy_s> thebishop: I'd like to help you out, but thus far, I don't have anything concrete to help with. | |
| [18:57] <thebishop> well, there isn't an concrete answer | |
| [18:57] <thebishop> and i find coders generally don't want to talk about nontechnical questions | |
| [18:58] <troy_s> thebishop: Ok. | |
| [18:59] <thebishop> but i think if you look at Free Software, generally coders use it, so as a result, its generally secure, well-designed, robust featureset, etc | |
| [19:00] <thebishop> if more artists, musicians, directors, used it, we'd probably find those areas of the experience improve as well | |
| [19:20] <troy_s> <thebishop> if more artists, musicians, directors, used it, we'd probably find those areas of the experience improve as well | |
| [19:20] <troy_s> Amen. | |
| [19:21] <troy_s> thebishop: Better still, you gain the allegiance of some powerful and influential subcultures. | |
| [19:21] <thebishop> troy_s, so what do you think would convince creative-types to move from OSX to Ubuntu? | |
| [19:21] <troy_s> thebishop: Well they have... remember that about 99.9% of your top Hollywood box office hits were created on a Free Software platforms. | |
| [19:22] <troy_s> thebishop: The problem is that the tools are in-house (as they are with the video game industry as well) | |
| [19:22] <troy_s> thebishop: So it is two pronged. 1) tools. 2) posture. | |
| [19:22] <thebishop> what sort of posture? | |
| [19:22] <troy_s> thebishop: How open to the culture you appear -- which is what I believe you are, in the end, getting at. | |
| [19:23] <thebishop> that's certainly part of it | |
| [19:23] <troy_s> thebishop: Apple did / does a tremendous job of talking to that audience demographic. | |
| [19:23] <thebishop> but i think we have to be more proactive | |
| [19:23] <thebishop> right | |
| [19:23] <troy_s> thebishop: Being proactive is a good thing. Again though, what you speak of is hideously complicated. Ubuntu _also_ desperately needs developers and developer support. | |
| [19:24] <troy_s> thebishop: One could probably suggest that a 'remix' would work to this end -- in this case it would probably be Ubuntu Studio. | |
| [19:25] <troy_s> thebishop: It all starts and ends with audience. | |
| [19:26] <troy_s> thebishop: Right now, I believe we are going through the growing pains of learning that. I have harped on and ranted about it for god knows how long. | |
| [19:26] <troy_s> thebishop: Unfortunately, it is something that people of the brain smarts that we have in our culture (extremely high) can't be told. They must learn it for themselves. | |
| [19:27] <thebishop> the problem i see with ubuntu studio is that its designed to be overly utilitarian. It makes total sense running Ardour as barebones as possible, but i think people want to work in a an environment that is visually appealing | |
| [19:28] <thebishop> ubuntu studio is the kind of thing you'd use in a production environment, not on your personal machine | |
| [19:28] <troy_s> thebishop: A rather big "I think" in there. I honestly don't know. | |
| [19:28] <troy_s> Greetings thorwil | |
| [19:28] <thorwil> hi troy_s | |
| [19:29] <thorwil> heh, my personal machine is my production environment :) | |
| [19:29] <thebishop> heh | |
| [19:29] <thebishop> gnome-terminal is my production environment | |
| [19:30] <thebishop> i don't mean to put responsibility or blame on anyone, but i do think we're getting the point where technical competency isn't the bottleneck | |
| [19:31] <thebishop> there are problem non-coders who would be interested in facilitating these kinds of "postures" | |
| [19:31] <thebishop> :s/problem/probably | |
| [19:32] <thebishop> but for instance, mentioning what new features people want in Gimp can be a volatile conversation | |
| === nand_ is now known as nand | |
| [19:33] <troy_s> thebishop: And that gets back to culture. | |
| [19:33] <troy_s> thebishop: It is one thing going from a culture where everyone is the culmination of scratching one's own itches to being responsive to the itches of others. | |
| [19:34] <thebishop> definitely | |
| [19:35] <thebishop> maybe there's a way to give nontechnical people tools to scratch their own itches, and also contribute back to the community | |
| [19:36] <thebishop> things like Screenlets for example | |
| [21:46] <Mariux> hi there | |
| [21:46] <troy_s> Hello Mariux | |
| [21:48] <Mariux> hi troy_s | |
| [21:48] <Mariux> maybe you can help me | |
| [21:48] <Mariux> i just subscribed the artwork mailing list | |
| [21:48] <Mariux> and now i want to create a Wiki page about me | |
| [21:48] <Mariux> how can i do this? | |
| [21:49] <troy_s> Mariux: Very easily. | |
| [21:49] <troy_s> Mariux: What is your Launchpad ID? | |
| [21:49] <Mariux> i've no Launchpad ID | |
| [21:50] <Mariux> do i need one? | |
| [21:50] <Mariux> how can i get it? | |
| [21:50] <troy_s> Mariux: Yes. It will be what you logon to the Wiki using as well. | |
| [21:50] <troy_s> Mariux: Start by going to the Wiki to see if it is still set up with the Launchpad IDs... | |
| [21:50] <troy_s> Mariux: http://wiki.ubuntu.com | |
| [21:51] <Mariux> well but if i subscribed the mailing list using my email and then i'll use the same for launchpad can it works? | |
| [21:53] <troy_s> Mariux: It should. | |
| [21:53] <troy_s> Mariux: Just try logging into the Wiki | |
| [21:55] <Mariux> logging using my launchpad id? | |
| [21:55] <Mariux> or my email? | |
| [21:55] <troy_s> Mariux: Go to the wiki, and try to logon. When it doesn't let you, sign up for an account. It will do the rest. | |
| [21:56] <troy_s> Mariux: in the past, it made you sign up at launchpad. | |
| [21:56] <troy_s> Mariux: I suspect it still will. | |
| [21:56] <Mariux> well but i already have an id on the wiki | |
| [21:56] <Mariux> that is Mariux3 | |
| [21:56] <troy_s> Mariux: Then go to the page that you wish to create -- usually via launchpad it will be something like FirstnameLastname | |
| [21:57] <troy_s> so http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MariuxLastname | |
| [21:57] <Mariux> oh cool | |
| [21:57] <Mariux> nice | |
| [21:57] <troy_s> Mariux: Then simply click 'create page' and carry on. | |
| [21:57] <Mariux> THX:-D | |
| [21:58] <Mariux> only one question | |
| [21:58] <Mariux> if i want to logout as Mariux3 and login as Mariux how can i do this? | |
| [21:58] <troy_s> Mariux: Uh... when you created your user name did you try Mariux? | |
| [21:58] <troy_s> Mariux: If you did, and it was taken, you can't change your logon. That would be a different account. | |
| [21:59] <Mariux> ah ok | |
| [21:59] <Mariux> probably mariux was already gone | |
| [21:59] <Mariux> thx ;-) | |
| [22:00] <troy_s> Mariux: Well try it. | |
| [22:00] <troy_s> Mariux: if it is taken, it will tell you. | |
| [22:00] <Mariux> but where can i logout? | |
| [22:01] <Mariux> sorry i can't find it | |
| [22:02] <troy_s> Mariux: It's ok. | |
| [22:02] <troy_s> Mariux: Top right generally on Ubuntu related places | |
| [22:02] <troy_s> Mariux: But it isn't exactly a consistent place... just look around. | |
| [22:03] <Mariux> ok thx | |
| [22:04] <Mariux> maybe i have to clear the cookies | |
| [22:04] <troy_s> Mariux: No... it shouldn't need it unless you set your browser to autologon. | |
| [22:05] <Mariux> yeah autologon is set | |
| [22:05] <Mariux> everytime i open the wiki i'm logged as mariux3 | |
| [22:06] <troy_s> Mariux: Hrm... under 'User Preferences" at the bottom above "First Time" | |
| [22:06] <troy_s> Mariux: Is the 'logout' button (great design) | |
| [22:07] <Mariux> ahahah ok thx | |
| [22:07] <Mariux> didn't see it | |
| [22:07] <Mariux> ;_) | |
| [22:07] <Mariux> thx again troy_s!!!!!! | |
| [22:07] <troy_s> Mariux: No problem friend. | |
| [22:11] <Mariux> only one thing | |
| [22:11] <Mariux> what is a wikiname? | |
| [22:11] <troy_s> Mariux: A term used to reference a wiki page. | |
| [22:12] <troy_s> Mariux: CamelCase works... as do underscores for spaces | |
| [22:12] <troy_s> Mariux: For example Space_Between or CamelCase | |
| [22:12] <Mariux> no ok | |
| [22:12] <troy_s> Mariux: That help? | |
| [22:12] <Mariux> well | |
| [22:13] <Mariux> so my username can be Mariux4 and my wikiname Mariux? | |
| [22:13] <Mariux> is this? | |
| [22:13] <troy_s> Your username isn't terribly relevant Mariux | |
| [22:13] <troy_s> Mariux: Your home page name is generally something like MariuxLastname | |
| [22:13] <troy_s> Mariux: Look at what Launchpad has attempted to autoset for you. | |
| [22:14] <troy_s> Mariux: But FirstnameLastname works | |
| [22:14] <troy_s> Mariux: Any other questions? I must bolt out to get a new jar of India ink. | |
| [22:15] <Mariux> so if it's autoset to Mariux4 i have to create the wikipage Mariux4 | |
| [22:15] <Mariux> correct? | |