| [01:40] <Palintheus> ls | |
| [01:40] <Palintheus> grr | |
| [01:40] <gcleric> rrrraaawww! | |
| === Varka_ is now known as Varka | |
| === asac_ is now known as asac | |
| === lamont` is now known as lamont | |
| === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson | |
| === doko_ is now known as doko | |
| === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson | |
| === neversfelde_ is now known as neversfelde | |
| === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson | |
| [13:56] <pitti> hello | |
| [13:56] <emgent> heya pitti | |
| [13:56] <emgent> @schedule Rome | |
| [13:56] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 01 Feb 21:00: MOTU | 13 Feb 23:30: Forum Council | 20 Feb 02:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | |
| [13:57] * mvo waves | |
| [13:57] * Hobbsee waves to pitti and mvo | |
| [13:57] * Hobbsee hides from any lightning bolts | |
| [13:57] * Hobbsee keeps her watering can handy, for putting out any more spot fires | |
| [13:58] <pedro_> hello | |
| [13:59] <pitti> hey | |
| [13:59] <seb128> hey | |
| [13:59] <MacSlow> greetings | |
| [13:59] <Riddell> hi | |
| [13:59] <pitti> hm, no Ted yet? | |
| [14:00] <Riddell> he has been known to need a text | |
| [14:00] <MacSlow> looks like it | |
| [14:00] * pitti smses | |
| [14:01] <MacSlow> ah fast :) | |
| [14:01] <Riddell> that was fast | |
| [14:01] <MacSlow> my sms lways take ages | |
| [14:01] <pitti> hey tedg | |
| [14:02] <tedg> Morning guys. | |
| [14:02] <MacSlow> hi | |
| [14:02] <pitti> tedg: so, sms is moot then :) | |
| [14:02] <pitti> so, everyone settled back home after the sprint? :) | |
| [14:02] <tedg> Oh, were you guys going to SMS me? I actually can't get txt messages. | |
| [14:02] * pitti does a group hug | |
| [14:02] <pitti> tedg: I did already; oh, good to know | |
| [14:03] <tedg> They charge for $0.10 for messages that you receive, and then spammers get your number.... annoying. | |
| [14:03] <kwwii> pitti: just as a note, I no longer have to attend the meeting if there is nothing for me (but you couldn't know that I guess) | |
| [14:03] <mvo> they charge you for stuff you receive?!? | |
| [14:03] <pitti> kwwii: I remember; well, so do you have something to discuss or need any help with your specs? | |
| [14:03] <tedg> mvo, in the US, we invented greedy capitalism ;) | |
| [14:03] <kwwii> pitti: nope, not really, but I'll hang around anyway :-) | |
| [14:03] <pitti> kwwii: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+specs has three specs for you which are all not even approved; I take it they are all defered? | |
| [14:04] <kwwii> pitti: nope, it is more a matter that scott has not approved them | |
| === \sh_away is now known as \sh | |
| [14:04] <kwwii> the scope of them changed from "change everything" to "change a little" so there is not a lot of work involved | |
| [14:04] <pitti> kwwii: ok; so as long as you don't block on finding something to blacksmith packging for you, that's fine | |
| [14:05] <kwwii> right | |
| [14:05] <pitti> so, the only two agenda items that I collected from the reports are my own :) | |
| [14:05] <pitti> * jockey testing (nvidia, ati, usability) (pitti) | |
| [14:05] <pitti> * app-install-data-commercial | |
| [14:05] <pitti> anything else from anyone? | |
| [14:05] <MacSlow> I just have a general question... | |
| [14:06] <pitti> just shoot :) | |
| [14:06] <Seveas> *pang* | |
| [14:06] * pitti rubs his ears | |
| [14:06] <MacSlow> regarding how to proceed, if patches I sent upstream (to bugzilla) are left un-applied... thus not landing in our .debs when we (you) grab them from upstream | |
| [14:07] <seb128> whenever you ask for it | |
| [14:07] <pitti> MacSlow: I think we should always apply our own patches immediately and upload them, so that lots of people can test them | |
| [14:07] <mvo> MacSlow: just ping someone of the people doing the packaging and they include them | |
| [14:07] <seb128> I can do an upload with those patch or sponsor you | |
| [14:07] <pitti> we should always immediately send patches upstream, but not block on them to apply and release | |
| [14:07] <seb128> pitti: not always, for the rhythmbox changes I was waiting because upstream had comments, etc | |
| [14:08] <MacSlow> initially I always incorporated them into patches found in <package>/debian/patches... but we want to keep the delta as small aspossible and be nicer with upstream and contribute more directly | |
| [14:08] <pitti> right, of course; if you are actually working *with* upstream on the patch | |
| [14:08] <seb128> MacSlow: usually apply to the package when you think it's ready and attach it upstream as soon as possible so we benefit from their comments, etc | |
| [14:08] <MacSlow> pitti, well in all case I refer too I am directly working with upstream | |
| [14:08] <pitti> MacSlow: IMHO, as soon as seb and you are confident that it works, get it uploaded | |
| [14:09] <seb128> what pitti said | |
| [14:09] <MacSlow> seb128, pitti: ok | |
| [14:09] <pitti> MacSlow: it doesn't hurt if we drop our patch two weeks later and adopt a differnet solution upstream, as long as we are before FF and all that | |
| [14:10] <MacSlow> seb128, e.g. the "browser-by-default" for rb works and sticks to conventions found in other rb-plugins regarding gconf-key places | |
| [14:10] <seb128> MacSlow: I'm happy to upload this one | |
| [14:10] <seb128> let's discuss it on #ubuntu-desktop | |
| [14:10] <MacSlow> mvo, same goes for the action-menu patch for libwnck | |
| [14:10] <pitti> oh, right; if you patch something that changes the user's conf, then we need to be more careful of course | |
| [14:10] <MacSlow> seb128, after the meeting?! | |
| [14:10] <seb128> MacSlow: yes | |
| [14:11] <MacSlow> pitti, in case of the "browser-by-default" it just add stuff not change any existing key | |
| [14:11] <MacSlow> ok... this issue is clarified for me then | |
| [14:12] <pitti> so, unfortunately at the sprint there weren't a lot of people/hw with Ati/Nvidia cards; I would appreciate if you could test jockey a bit (new version just uploaded) and give me some feedback whether it works for you and which hw you have | |
| [14:12] <pitti> I'm particualrly interested in fglrx, nvidia, and WinModems (sl-modem-daemon) | |
| [14:12] <MacSlow> pitti, hm.... ok I can update my desktop/nvidia-box to hardy | |
| [14:12] <pitti> bcm43xx will be re-added in some days | |
| [14:13] <pitti> MacSlow: if it helps, I can provide gutsy packages, too | |
| [14:13] <MacSlow> pitti, does the restricted-driver stuff already cover nvidia 169.09? | |
| [14:13] <pitti> (it's just a different Recommends:, they should actually install fine on gutsy | |
| [14:13] <pitti> MacSlow: yes, it should; we ship the necessary glue files in linux-restricted-modules itself, not jockey | |
| [14:13] <MacSlow> ok | |
| [14:14] <pitti> mpt: how much can we bother you about UI reviews already? | |
| [14:14] <pitti> mpt: jockey doesn't look terribly different from r-m, but it did change a bit, and I'd appreciate getting some complaints :) | |
| [14:15] <mpt> pitti, my current allocation is 2 days/week on Ubuntu, though I think sabdfl would like to reduce that | |
| [14:15] <mpt> by all means e-mail me, or even better, assign a bug to me if appropriate | |
| [14:15] <pitti> so, if we have something to review for you, is it ok to just mail you or do we need to ask the LP guys for 'stealing' you? | |
| [14:15] <pitti> mpt: alright, sounds good; thanks | |
| [14:16] <mvo> pitti: I can give you feedback after the meeting on ati r500 | |
| [14:16] <pitti> thanks | |
| [14:17] <pitti> so, unless anyone else wants to ask/discuss something, shall we quickly run through the specs? | |
| [14:17] <mpt> pitti, or even e-mail ubuntu-desktop@ or ubuntu-devel@, because it'll be educational for the comments to be public | |
| [14:17] <mvo> pitti: what is this item about app-install-data-commercial? | |
| [14:17] <pitti> mpt: ah, sounds good | |
| [14:18] <pitti> mvo: I wanted to handle that after the meeting actually | |
| [14:18] <pitti> mvo: just wondering if there is anything written about it somewhere? | |
| [14:18] <pitti> mvo: Gerry wants us to add a new package to it, and I wasn't sure which information we need and where to put it | |
| [14:18] <pitti> mvo: but I think we can do that afterwards | |
| [14:19] <mvo> pitti: ok | |
| [14:19] <pitti> so, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+specs -- we have three weeks to go :) | |
| [14:19] <mvo> pitti: this should all be handed over to the ISV department | |
| [14:19] <pitti> Riddell, your's seem to be in good shape | |
| [14:19] <pitti> mvo: I'd prefer that, too | |
| [14:20] <Riddell> pitti: yes, they're both making good progress | |
| [14:20] <pitti> for my own ones, partition-management lags behind; if someone happens to be bored and interested, I always appreciate help :) | |
| [14:20] <pitti> but I think I can get the most important bits into FF (partition renaming and fsck on boot) | |
| [14:20] <pitti> mvo: networkless-installation-fixes seems to be behind? | |
| [14:21] <mvo> pitti: yes, its behind, I had hoped to work on it this week, but the plague struck | |
| [14:21] <pitti> argh sprint plague argh | |
| [14:21] <mvo> pitti: I still think it can be done in the remainaing time | |
| [14:21] <pitti> mvo: but it's not blocked for something external or other people? | |
| [14:22] <mvo> pitti: no | |
| [14:22] <pitti> (this isn't supposed to be a "you suck" list, but rather a "who needs help from whom" :) ) | |
| [14:22] <pitti> mvo: packaging-tools-usability isn't even approved yet; does that need some review from people like mpt, or jsut blocked on Scott? | |
| [14:23] <mvo> pitti: the open issue is that we should have a way to show the support status of the packages | |
| [14:23] <mvo> pitti: now this is not easy as some packages are support for 3y some for 5y etc | |
| [14:24] <pitti> ooh, I agree; this creates too much confusion and false expectations | |
| [14:24] <mvo> pitti: but there is currently no list (to my knowledge) | |
| [14:24] <mvo> unless this list is available, this particular bit can not be implemented | |
| [14:24] <pitti> mvo: can't we use some germinate trick for that? | |
| [14:24] <pitti> i. e. everything that's in the server seed is 5 years, rest is 3? | |
| [14:25] <pitti> mvo: I also fell that we should point out universe/multiverse bits harder | |
| [14:25] <mvo> if that is the official policy, then yes | |
| [14:25] <mvo> pitti: point out harder in what way? | |
| [14:25] <pitti> it's very hard to tell ATM which unsupported packages you have installed and thus could bite you (security, support, and updates) | |
| [14:25] <pitti> mvo: I'm not sure how to point it out TBH | |
| [14:26] <pitti> I just know that nowadays people regard unvierse packages as pretty much "Ubuntu" | |
| [14:26] <pitti> and loudly complain/blog/shout if we don't put a new microversion of $my_favourite_universe_pet_packge into universe-updates every other month | |
| [14:27] <pitti> (or keep clamav up to date, etc.) | |
| [14:27] <mvo> right | |
| [14:27] <pitti> mvo: 3/5 years> can you talk to Colin about that? | |
| [14:27] <pitti> I think germinate can help us here | |
| [14:27] <Riddell> mvo: mind that some packages are also 18 months only | |
| [14:28] <mvo> that is because we give people the expectation that universe is pretty well supported by enabling it by default for example | |
| [14:28] <pitti> ^ right | |
| [14:29] <mvo> pitti: yes, please make that a action item | |
| [14:29] <pitti> Riddell: ah, like packages in the Kubuntu seeds? | |
| [14:29] <mvo> pitti: I will talk to him about it | |
| [14:29] <pitti> mvo: done | |
| [14:29] <pitti> thanks | |
| [14:29] <Riddell> pitti: mm | |
| [14:29] <mvo> pitti: or stuff in main but not "desktop" | |
| [14:29] <pitti> any other bright ideas about that universe presentatino problem? | |
| [14:30] <pitti> mvo: we should make update-manager increasingly more whining about installing universe the older a release gets :-P | |
| [14:30] <pitti> "Best before: see backside" or so | |
| [14:31] <mvo> what can people expect from universe? is there [ ] no support [ ] some support [ ] full support | |
| [14:31] <mvo> for security updates? | |
| [14:31] <pitti> some security support | |
| [14:31] <pitti> and some updates for popular packages | |
| [14:31] <Riddell> unrealiable support | |
| [14:31] <mvo> so only for very critical ones? | |
| [14:31] <pitti> but none at all for 95% of packages | |
| [14:31] <pitti> mvo: it's not directly related to severity; more to popularity | |
| [14:31] <tedg> Can we say something like "community support"? | |
| [14:32] <pitti> e. g. gstreamer codecs will get updates | |
| [14:32] <MacSlow> mvo, pitti: isn't the ubuntu-logo infront of a package in synatpic enough indication of the support-state? | |
| [14:32] <mvo> if we don't provide security support for 95% of universe, then that is certainly something we need to message very clearly | |
| [14:32] <pitti> and some people now take care of clamav | |
| [14:32] <pitti> MacSlow: indication, yes; but apparently not enough | |
| [14:32] <pitti> tedg: well, that's even more fuzzy IMHO | |
| [14:33] <pitti> mvo: do you think (for hardy+1) we could have update-notifier check our Ubuntu CVE database, and give a warning about unresolved stuff in universe packages? | |
| [14:34] <mvo> pitti: yes, I think so | |
| [14:34] <pitti> i. e. a notification for installed software, and a big fat warning when trying to install it | |
| [14:35] <mvo> is there a universe-security team? | |
| [14:35] <pitti> that won't help for serious bugs that are in the release, but it might help to keep people's feed a bit more dry | |
| [14:35] <mvo> motu based? | |
| [14:35] <pitti> mvo: yes, there is | |
| [14:35] <pitti> mvo: but AFAIR our security team (Kees/Jamie) still do the complete tracking | |
| [14:35] <pitti> and we have that tracking in machine readable format | |
| [14:35] <mvo> but it can not keep up? | |
| [14:36] <pitti> mvo: nope (can't/don't really want) | |
| [14:36] <pitti> mvo: the very reason why we keep stuff in universe is that there is so much crack in it which is entirely unmaintainable for 3 or even 1.5 years | |
| [14:37] <pitti> ok, let's move that to the ML, time is pressing | |
| [14:37] <mvo> ok, mailinglist sounds good | |
| [14:38] <pitti> mvo: can you CC: ubuntu-devel in your mail about determining support status? | |
| [14:38] <pitti> MacSlow: hardy-desktop-effects-profiles and hardy-sparkle seem to need more time/attention | |
| [14:39] <pitti> MacSlow: do you need help/should we kick one to hardy+1/will it likely land on time? | |
| [14:39] <MacSlow> pitti, sparkle and shine are allowed to miss ff | |
| [14:39] <MacSlow> pitti, the profiles stuff is a bit hard | |
| [14:39] <pitti> ah, ok | |
| [14:40] <MacSlow> pitti, I'm currently a bit unsure if keybuk said the profiles stuff can slip to hardy+1 or not | |
| [14:40] <pitti> MacSlow: ok; TBH I'm not familiar with that, so if you think you won't get everything ready, can you please talk with Scott directly? | |
| [14:41] <MacSlow> the sprint week was a bit hectic and I got some shift-arounds of things | |
| [14:41] <MacSlow> pitti, sure | |
| [14:41] <pitti> ok, thanks | |
| [14:41] <pitti> hardy-hardware-detection is currently marked as 'not started', that's not quite true | |
| [14:41] <pitti> the core bits are already done; I'll update it after the meeting | |
| [14:42] <pitti> seb128: pppoeconf-gui looks untouched enough to not be something for hardy? | |
| [14:42] <seb128> pitti: gnome-system-tools does pppoe now | |
| [14:42] <pitti> oh,neat | |
| [14:43] <seb128> pitti: so the spec is deprecated, or rather just it's limited to make sure than g-s-t work correctly | |
| [14:43] <pitti> seb128: you think that's good enough for DSL users? | |
| [14:43] <pitti> rockin' | |
| [14:43] <seb128> yes | |
| [14:43] <pitti> seb128: can you please update the status and whiteboard of it? | |
| [14:43] <pitti> 'beta available' sounds appropriate then? | |
| [14:43] <seb128> pitti: sure | |
| [14:43] <seb128> yes | |
| [14:43] <pitti> and talk to scott to get it approved? | |
| [14:43] <seb128> ok | |
| [14:44] <pitti> tedg: what's the status of screensaver-review? | |
| [14:45] <tedg> I talked to Scott about it at the sprint, so I need to write up everything that he said. | |
| [14:45] <tedg> Then we need to come up with a critera for choosing screensavers, I'm trying to work with Debian on that. | |
| [14:45] <pitti> tedg: so is 'drafting' reflecting the status correctly? | |
| [14:46] <tedg> The current way is "Mark said so" -- we need something more robust :) | |
| [14:46] <tedg> pitti: yes, that's a good status. | |
| [14:46] <pitti> in this case it doesn't look very 'hardyable'? | |
| [14:46] <pitti> oh, the 'Mark' approval overriding :) | |
| [14:47] <tedg> I'm not sure, it is a pretty easy spec, mostly moving around screensavers from -data to -data-extras. | |
| [14:47] <pitti> tedg: are you and TheMuso getting along with the remainign audio jumble pieces? please let me know if you need anything from me wrt. pulse | |
| [14:47] <pitti> tedg: screensaver> oh, ok; it sounded a bit more complex | |
| [14:48] <tedg> pitti: Yes, I haven't talked with TheMuso yet... need to do that. | |
| [14:48] <pitti> tedg: can you please talk to Mark and Scott to get this spec into shape? we should at least know what we need for hardy | |
| [14:49] <tedg> pitti: Yes, right now it's mostly a "typing problem". I plan on having it to Scott for Monday. | |
| [14:50] <pitti> thanks | |
| [14:50] <pitti> so, I think we are through | |
| [14:50] <pitti> for review, my collected action items: | |
| [14:50] <pitti> ACTION: mvo to talk to cjwatson about using germinate to determine length of package support (3/5 years, 18 months) and mailing u-devel@ about improving u-n to warn about universe packages with known security holes | |
| [14:50] <pitti> ACTION: Seb to talk to Scott for updating pppoeconf-gui spec status for the feature provided by gnome-system-tools | |
| [14:50] <pitti> ACTION: tedg to talk to Scott and Mark about screensaver-review; this is currently way too underdefined for getting it into hardy | |
| [14:50] <seb128> pitti: thanks | |
| [14:51] <pitti> anything else on your hearts and minds? | |
| [14:51] <tedg> Nope. Looks good. | |
| [14:51] <pitti> I'll send the report to distro-team@ in some minutes then, and then stop impostering Scott | |
| [14:51] <pitti> thanks everyone! | |
| [14:52] <pitti> have a good day | |
| [14:52] <Riddell> remember to start situps tomorrow! | |
| [14:52] <pitti> right! everyone to attend! | |
| [14:52] <cjwatson> mvo: I already have an action to do that germinate/server thing for Nick Barcet, BTW | |
| [14:52] <pitti> the grown muscles in my arms already start to weaken :) | |
| [14:52] <cjwatson> so I don't need another :-) | |
| [14:52] <pitti> hey cjwatson; ah, good to know | |
| [14:53] <mvo> cjwatson: heh :) ok | |
| [14:54] <MacSlow> so long everybody | |
| [14:54] * pitti hugs the team | |
| [14:54] * mvo waves | |
| [14:55] <mpt> impostering, eh | |
| [14:58] <Riddell> impersonating | |
| [15:02] <pitti> I guess that's what I meant, thanks | |
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| [16:08] <gaurish> when is the next meet? | |
| [16:15] <pochu> @schedule | |
| [16:15] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 01 Feb 20:00: MOTU | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | |
| [16:16] <gaurish> @ubotu | |
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| [19:41] <arualavi> ahir al final amb lo del Vbimbo viag fer una cosa que suggereixen a https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines | |
| [19:41] <arualavi> sorry | |
| [19:41] <arualavi> wrong channel :-/ | |
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| [23:21] <emgent> @schedule Rome | |
| [23:21] <emgent> @now | |
| [23:21] <emgent> bot offline :( | |
| [23:21] <Seveas> yeah | |
| [23:21] <Seveas> sucky colo provider having routing problems for the umpteenth time | |
| [23:22] <PriceChild> emgent, replacements are incoming | |
| [23:22] <emgent> argh | |
| [23:22] <emgent> ok thanks PriceChild :) | |