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[00:36] <mhb> hmm, I guess #kde hates me because of me being a Kubuntu user :o) |
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[00:36] <mhb> not only nobody really answered my questions, they also managed to complain about kubuntu in the 15-minute interval I was there. |
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[00:38] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm sure that could happen in just about any channel |
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[00:39] <mhb> oh, do they complain about Kubuntu in all channels now? |
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[00:39] <mhb> it's good to be home then. |
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[00:41] <Riddell> mhb: what do they complain about? |
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[00:42] <Riddell> stdin: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/2008-January/thread.html |
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[00:42] <Riddell> search for kdeadmin-kde4 down to koffice2 |
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[00:43] <LaserJock> mhb: well, if it's a popular distro complaints within 15min doesn't seem out of the ordinary ;-) |
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[00:43] <stdin> Riddell: yeah, I got now. but I wanted to ask if cdbs (>= 0.4.50) was really needed for kdemultimedia-kde4? |
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[00:43] <mhb> the same old Sho_ song (Kubuntu's KDE diverges from upstream, et cetera) |
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[00:43] <LaserJock> and not answering questions is a common IRC thing |
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[00:44] <Riddell> stdin: i don't know but it shouldn't be different from any other kde4 package |
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[00:44] <mhb> LaserJock: sure, but the complaining bit convinced me to keep away from that channel :o) |
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[00:57] <stdin> Riddell: also kdeartwork-kde4 FTBFS on i386 (and lpia) http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11169794/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.kdeartwork-kde4_4%3A3.98.0%7Esvn755919-1ubuntu1%7Egutsy1%7Eppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz |
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[00:59] <Riddell> stdin: oh, xscreensaver foo |
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[00:59] <Riddell> stdin: you can edit the .install files until you get them right if you want |
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[00:59] <Riddell> or not bother, it's not the most important module |
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[01:00] <stdin> I'll see how I feel after getting some coffee on and rummaging for food :p |
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[01:02] <Riddell> fooey, koffice2 broke |
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[01:03] * Hobbsee waves |
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[01:05] <stdin> Riddell: needs build-dep on libphonon-dev ? |
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[01:05] <stdin> hello Hobbsee \o |
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[01:06] * Hobbsee despams various mailing lsits, and hugs listadmin |
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[01:06] <Hobbsee> oh nice, someone's done u-d recently |
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[01:20] <Mez> Riddell - http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/109 |
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[01:24] <mhb> ah, the kids |
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[01:25] <Riddell> i like messing with data |
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[01:25] <nixternal> hahahhaah |
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[01:26] <Mez> Riddell, got a link for the kubuntu design team? |
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[01:27] <Riddell> the what? |
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[01:27] <Mez> kubuntu artwork * |
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[01:27] <mhb> there's no such thing |
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[01:28] <Jucato> moin guys and Hobbsee! :) |
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[01:29] <mhb> Mez: we're very short on art people, in fact we have just kwwii who finds some time for Kubuntu artwork once in a while |
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[01:30] <Mez> ah... *slaps his designer friend( |
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[01:30] <Jucato> I have a kde3-kde4 questions (actually two): 1. are we using the same $KDEHOME for both kde3 and kde4? 2. How are we setting up the kde4 session so that it uses the qt4 binaries and libraries instead of qt3 (we use /etc/alternatives to choose between qt3 and qt4 right?)? |
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[01:30] <mhb> Mez: don't slap him, invite him to join the fun :o) |
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[01:30] <Mez> he enjoys it |
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[01:31] <Riddell> Jucato: 1) no 2) the normal linker way |
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[01:31] <Jucato> Riddell: oh. how do we separate the $KDEHOME's? is there a $KDE4HOME env var? |
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[01:32] <Jucato> thanks btw :) |
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[01:32] <Riddell> Jucato: we don't use the environment variable, it's patched in kdelibs |
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[01:32] <Jucato> aaah ok. thanks :) |
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[01:32] <Mez> Riddell - I've updated the facebook stuff a lil (added kubuntu - but left "I am your father" |
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[01:36] <mhb> Riddell: any chance we could propagate our patches back to upstream so I'll feel less hated in #kde in the future? :o) |
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[01:36] <mhb> KDE4 patches, that is... |
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[01:37] <Riddell> mhb: we don't have any KDE 4 patches, other than the ones from debian |
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[01:37] <Hobbsee> heya Jucato! |
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[01:37] <mhb> Riddell: so it's patched in upstream? |
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[01:37] <mhb> the $KDEHOME env var |
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[01:37] <mhb> or debian? |
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[01:38] <Riddell> mhb: that is patched upstream in debian, who got it from suse. for obvious reasons it's not going to be patched in kde |
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[01:39] <mhb> I should invite captain obvious for tea because he's not here right now |
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[01:40] <mhb> Riddell: rephrasing the sentence above, what's the obvious reason for not accepting a patch everyone actually uses? |
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[01:41] <Riddell> mhb: in this case KDE assumes you are only using one version of KDE, we are allowing to use two |
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[01:42] <mhb> so KDE doesn't like using two versions at once? |
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[01:42] <Riddell> not without changing KDEHOME |
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[01:42] <mhb> KDE as in "the KDE developers" |
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[01:43] <mhb> I still fail to grasp the reason why the would never include it |
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[01:43] <mhb> sorry |
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[01:43] <Riddell> will tell you it's a distro issue |
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[01:44] <Riddell> because they are assuming KDE 4 users are upgrading from KDE 3 once and for all. we assume currently that KDE 4 users are slightly experimental and may want to change back |
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[01:45] <mhb> thank you for the explanation. |
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=== uga is now known as uga|away |
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=== nivek_ is now known as nivek |
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[02:00] <Hobbsee> kdeartwork (ppa) fell over |
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[02:03] <stdin> yeah I know, I'm trying to (forcibly) fix it now |
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[02:10] <yuriy> *sigh* kde 4 just crashed randomly |
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=== dacuad is now known as krawek |
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[04:50] <stdin> so, who feels like explaining why kdeartwork-kde4 built fine on amd64, then after I removed the files from the .install that stopped i386 from building, amd64 now fails. not finding files it seems to have found before? :/ |
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[04:52] <nixternal> don't you just love packaging? :) |
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[04:56] <stdin> it's beginning to annoy me somewhat, I'll just keep hacking away at the .install until there's nothing there if I have to! :p |
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[04:59] <stdin> up goes ~ppa4 |
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[05:02] <nixternal> oh wow, I just removed my kde-devel user and home directory....it freed up 40% of my darn drive |
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[05:02] <LaserJock> heh |
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[05:02] <LaserJock> KDE is *huge* |
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[05:03] <nixternal> kde 4 when debugfull is set for pretty much all of extragear, all of KDE, a lot of playground, and all of office |
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[05:28] <stdin> up goes ~ppa5... |
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[06:27] <stdin> and now for ~ppa6 |
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[06:34] <nixternal> lol |
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[06:34] <nixternal> I am about 50% complete with extragear |
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[06:34] <nixternal> kcoloredit was kind of pointless for -kde4 package since nothing has changed in it since 2000 |
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[06:34] <nixternal> heh |
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[09:31] <stdin> bah, I give up on kdeartwork-kde4, it's evil and I don't like it any more |
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[10:37] <hunger> Is there a xrndr applet shipped with kubuntu? |
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[10:39] <stdin> not that I can see |
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[10:40] <stdin> but I don't use xrandr so it could be hidden somewhere I don't look |
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[10:40] <hunger> stdin: I could only find some gtk-things as well:-( |
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[10:41] <hunger> stdin: ati got randr support a couple of days ago in hardy. I want to try that out;-) |
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[10:42] <stdin> man xrandr ;) |
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[10:42] <hunger> stdin: That is so 1980th;-) |
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[10:42] <stdin> ok, use man:/xrandr if it makes you feel better :p |
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[10:43] <hunger> That is so 1990th;-) |
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[10:50] <Lure> Riddell, stdin: improvement of kdebase-workspace package, but kdm-kde4 is still not working properly (not sure if our of upstream problem): http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lure/kdebase-workspace.diff |
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[10:51] <Lure> and we still need to decide what to do with manpages: currently they are installed on same location as kde3, therefore it would cause a conflict |
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[11:08] <fdoving> hunger: doesn't krandrtray work ? |
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[11:11] <hunger> fdoving: Where can I get that? |
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[11:12] <fdoving> you probably have it. |
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[11:12] <fdoving> kcontrol: /usr/bin/krandrtray |
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[11:12] <fdoving> alt+f2, 'krandrtray' |
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[11:12] <fdoving> brb. |
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[11:12] <hunger> fdoving: Ah, great! I was looking all over aptitude for something;-) |
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[11:13] <fdoving> not sure this old krandrtray is working with the new xrandr 1.2. but you'll find out. |
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[11:14] <fdoving> bbl. |
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[11:57] <Riddell> stdin: koffice2 seems to have compiled now |
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[11:59] <stdin> Riddell: yeah, 1:1.9.96.0~svn757194-1ubuntu1~gutsy1~ppa1 is basically 1:1.9.96.0~svn757194-1ubuntu2, I added the build-dep on the 1st upload :) |
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[12:02] <Riddell> stdin: clever clever |
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[12:03] <stdin> and I've given up on kdeartwork-kde4, it's insane! it builds fine locally in a gutsy pbuilder but not on the PPA buildd I think I got up to ~ppa7 |
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[12:03] <stdin> even patched debchange to allow -i with ~ppa revisions :p |
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[12:05] <Riddell> crazy |
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[12:06] <stdin> well there is a amd64 and an i386 package up, may not be the same version but it should be ok |
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[12:08] <Lure> any kde4 desktop user that can test one digikam/kde3 issue? |
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[12:08] <fdoving> sure. |
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[12:09] <fdoving> i have compiled my own kde4, but that won't matter, i guess? |
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[12:09] <fdoving> just finished burning an album to cd with the new k3b. :) |
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[12:09] <Lure> fdoving: can you start digikam/kde3 in kde4 session and check if proper albums show photos? |
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[12:09] <fdoving> i use a 'start3app' bash function to set the proper environment variables. |
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[12:09] <Lure> fdoving: for me it only shows date and search albums |
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[12:09] <fdoving> not sure how it behaves without that. |
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[12:09] <Lure> fdoving: same here |
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[12:10] <Lure> I get no error on console, but also no photos in folder view |
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[12:10] <Lure> :-( |
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[12:10] <Lure> fdoving: so k3b/kde4 works? |
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[12:10] * Lure adds it to build list... |
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[12:11] <fdoving> well, it crashes when i try to write cd images. |
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[12:12] <fdoving> it's not ready to be used, i guess. |
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[12:12] <fdoving> menus are incomplete etc. |
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[12:12] <Lure> fdoving: ok, but it might be before hardy release... |
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[12:12] <Lure> Riddell: is there any plan to have some beta versions of kde4 available for users? |
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[12:12] <fdoving> Lure: yep. might. |
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[12:13] <Lure> Riddell: maybe at least in kde4-beta ppa or similar |
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[12:14] <Riddell> Lure: huh? we've been doing that for ages |
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[12:14] <Lure> Riddell: I mean with some commitment/support? |
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[12:15] <Riddell> Lure: what sort of commitment/support? the packages are there, they work |
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[12:15] <Lure> Riddell: you are probably right, standard kubuntu.org release/announcement should do it |
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[12:16] <Lure> Riddell: it will be just more apps now to cover (koffice2, extragear...) |
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[12:16] <mzungu> menu ->xchat->network list |
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[12:17] <mzungu> oops! |
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[12:17] <Lure> mzungu: it is menu -> konversation -> network list over here ;-) |
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[12:17] <Riddell> mzungu! you havn't been killed in political riots |
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[12:17] <mzungu> ;) |
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[12:17] <mzungu> nope - still alive! |
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[12:18] <mzungu> smoke on the near horizon ;) |
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[12:18] <mzungu> seriously - not as bad as the press reports! |
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[12:18] <Riddell> phew |
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[12:19] <mzungu> Lure: tried all other clients, and just keep coming back to xchat |
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[12:19] <mzungu> thanks for asking, guys |
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[12:20] <mzungu> we were a bit worried for a couple of days - but things are returning to normal |
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[12:21] <fdoving> they managed to find some not-so-nice pictures to send on tv last night. good thing if it's normalizing. |
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[12:27] <mzungu> tv/media BAD PPL! |
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=== \sh_away is now known as \sh |
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=== tmske__ is now known as tmske |
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=== uga|away is now known as uga |
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=== kblizzzek is now known as blizzzek |
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=== kblizzzek is now known as blizzzek |
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[14:16] <blizzzek> does anyone know if flabby windows are planned to be a feature of kde4 desktop/window effects? |
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[15:19] <Lure> can some core-dev approve bug 180778 |
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[15:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 180778 in digikam "[hardy] Please sync digikam 0.9.3 from debian" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180778 |
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[15:19] <Lure> then some archive-admin can do the sync (Riddell and Hobbsee comes to mind ;-)) |
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=== uga is now known as uga|away |
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=== gryc_ is now known as gryc |
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[15:37] <Riddell> Lure: done |
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[15:38] <Lure> Riddell: thanks |
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[15:38] <Lure> Riddell: kdebase-workspace: did you just upload my debdiff or did you also try it (kdm does not work on my clean system) |
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[15:39] <Lure> Riddell: and btw, when is the plan to switch to released tarballs? Are we waiting for debian? |
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[16:45] <Jucato> what's the repo again for our most up-to-date kde4 packages? (after rc2?) if we have any :) |
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[16:47] <stdin> Jucato: same as rc2 repos, kubuntu-members-kde4 |
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[16:47] <Jucato> stdin: thankies :) |
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[17:35] <Riddell> stdin: does cfitsio3 need to be backported? |
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[17:35] <Riddell> for gutsy? |
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[17:36] <Riddell> gutsy has the same upstream version as hardy |
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[17:36] <stdin> I had to backport libcfitsio libnova and soprano |
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[17:36] <Riddell> stdin: any changes needed? |
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[17:37] <stdin> nope |
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[17:37] <Riddell> stdin: I'll put them into gutsy-backports then |
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[17:38] <Riddell> stdin: want me to sync in your name for the extra karma? |
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[17:38] <stdin> Riddell: sure, I love karma :) |
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=== blueyed__ is now known as blueyed |
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=== jpatrick changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Welcome to the Kubuntu developers channel | Next meeting: 12nd January 11:00 | Happy New Year |
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[18:46] <Riddell> thanks jpatrick |
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=== jpetso is now known as jpetso_away |
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[18:54] <nixternal> back to building extragear love |
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[19:00] <nixternal> Riddell: can you explain why these packages are not building to debian/tmp but instead to debian/<package_name>? |
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[19:00] <nixternal> I am using the same cdbs as all other kde4 packages |
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[19:20] <Riddell> nixternal: that's what always happens with packages that build only one binary package |
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[19:27] <nixternal> ahhh, ok |
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[19:32] <Riddell> mhb: poke poke "A: Yes, you will be able to download it from kubuntu.org." is wrong, it'll be on cdimage.ubuntu.com same as always |
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[19:33] <Riddell> probably on releases.ubuntu.com too |
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[19:47] <jpatrick> Riddell: no problem |
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[19:55] <mhb> Riddell: well, for me and the rest of the ordinary boys, we go to kubuntu.org to click ourselves through the maze to get the image |
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[19:55] <mhb> Riddell: I was not referring to the server exactly, but rather to the place where the link will be located, and that is undoubtedly kubuntu.org |
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[19:56] <Riddell> mhb: fair enough, just the sysadmins are a bit touchy after I killed the pipes by putting the last KDE 4 CD on kubuntu.org :) |
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[19:56] <mhb> I'll clarify it as a comment |
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[19:56] <jpatrick> Riddell: someone has yet to approve rouzic and smarter in ~kubuntu-members |
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[19:57] <rouzic> pon... oh, wait! |
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[19:58] <smarter> Yes, that would be nice ;) |
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[20:02] <ScottK> mhb: The way you phrased it in your blog entry made it sound like KDE3 is seriously deprecated for Hardy |
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=== uga|away is now known as uga |
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[20:17] <jpatrick> last meetings minutes availible at http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/minutes/ |
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[20:24] <mhb> ScottK: hmm, I don't read it that way |
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[20:24] <mhb> ScottK: AFAIK I wrote about the KDE3 CD being available. |
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[20:24] <Riddell> thanks jpatrick, can you link from the Kubuntu/Meetings page? |
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[20:25] <jpatrick> Riddell: I shall do that (and write up the rest of meetings from now), after my custard |
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[20:26] <ScottK> mhb: You wrote KDE4 via shipit and KDE3 via kubuntu.org (which is where we get all the unsupported updates and stuff). |
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[20:26] <ScottK> Sounds to me like KDE4 is all Kubuntu is worried about for Hardy. |
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[20:27] <mhb> ScottK: sorry to disagree, but that was simply not there. |
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[20:28] <mhb> it is an incorrect deduction ... I guess you could deduce a lot of things from it, but many would be not true |
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[20:28] <mhb> kubuntu.org is our main site, after all :o) |
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[20:29] <ScottK> But kubuntu.org is not where releases get downloaded from. |
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[20:29] <mhb> ScottK: that's a valid point, it's addressed in the comments |
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[20:30] <ScottK> The comments don't show in my RSS reader. |
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[20:30] <jjesse_> nixternal: whats the weather like in chi-town |
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[20:30] <jjesse_> stupid airport delays |
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[20:32] <mhb> ScottK: right, well ... if I updated the blog post it would get to the top of the planet.ubuntu.com again, and that's not a good practice. I would consider that as an option if the error was serious... but the text is short and simple by design |
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[20:32] <ScottK> OK. |
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[20:32] <mhb> there's nothing in there that suggests KDE3 being second class IMHO. In fact, there's nothing about it. |
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[20:32] <nixternal> jjesse_: about 60 degrees |
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[20:33] <ScottK> If only KDE4 is being shipped via shipit, then it's clear what the primary is. |
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[20:33] <jjesse_> i thought both kde3 and kde4 were being shipped via shipit |
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[20:34] <ScottK> Not according to mhb's blog post |
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[20:34] <jjesse_> hrmmm |
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[20:34] <ScottK> As nearly as I can tell, the plan now is to focus on making Kubuntu 8.04 great for 'technology enthusiasts' with those of us who use it for actual work getting not a lot out of it. |
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[20:35] <jpatrick> ScottK: it was decided at the meeting that we'd "big up the KDE 4 CD as being the interesting and exciting one, we put it on release.u.c, have it on shipit and generally make it the focus of our messaging" |
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[20:35] <mhb> jjesse_: also according to the meeting minutes jpatrick did a few minutes ago |
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[20:35] <jjesse_> dang it i always miss the metgs |
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[20:36] <ScottK> jpatrick: This confirms what I said. |
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[20:36] <mhb> ScottK: well, not quite. What is true that you won't get much more compared to Gutsy. |
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[20:36] <jjesse_> nixternal: is it foggy or what there? just wondering why everything is delayed |
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[20:36] <mhb> ScottK: which is not entirely our fault (KDE3 development has stopped) |
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[20:37] <mhb> ScottK: the KDE4 CD is targeted at enthusiasts and power users, that's true |
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[20:38] <mhb> ScottK: however, if all the apps fit on the CD, I don't see a reason why your productivity could be harmed |
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[20:38] <mhb> ScottK: or is that really dependent on the position of the panel? |
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[20:38] <mhb> most of the KDE4 apps that are not done will be replaced by the KDE3 ones |
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[20:39] <mhb> kontact, amarok, kaffeine, digikam, k3b too I guess ... ale KDE3 |
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[20:39] <mhb> all |
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[20:40] <ScottK> So I get my shippit CD and upgrade to a less stable KDE4 environment to run the same Kontact I've always run? |
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[20:40] <mhb> no, you upgrade via internet and get the same KDE3 you've always run |
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[20:41] <mhb> or you install KDE4 CD and get KDE3's Kontact, yes. |
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[20:42] <mhb> I find it sensible that we should ship (hybrid) KDE4 CDs ... after all, Gutsy was not really a big improvement over Feisty feature-wise and most of us is having one of those at home ... why ship another same ol' KDE3 to the users? |
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[20:43] <mhb> we just need to communicate well that KDE4 CD is not LTS. |
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[20:43] <mhb> it's not even normal release |
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[20:44] <ScottK> That's the problem. There is no 'normal release' for Kubuntu Hardy. |
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[20:45] <Riddell> jpatrick: added smarter and rouzic, thanks for the reminder |
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[20:45] <Tm_T> hi kids |
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[20:45] <Riddell> ScottK: the KDE 3 release is the normal one, the KDE 4 release is the interesting one |
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[20:45] <smarter> Riddell: thanks |
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[20:46] <jjesse_> which one will be abailable on shipit? |
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[20:46] <jpatrick> jjesse_: KDE4 |
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[20:46] <jjesse_> intereseting |
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[20:46] <ScottK> Riddell: It'd be nice to be able to get official CDs from shipit for KDE3. I can't really hand out KDE4 CDs to people I'm trying to convert |
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[20:46] <jpatrick> this is why I write the minutes... |
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[20:46] <jjesse_> agreed ScottK |
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[20:47] <Riddell> ScottK: best order some gutsy CDs then |
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[20:47] * ScottK goes to order more. |
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[20:48] <mhb> or hand out Ubuntu, it will be LTS and it's got all the marketing/developer power behind it |
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[20:48] <Tm_T> noone stops installing KDE into that :) |
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[20:49] <Nightrose> (or burn some cds yourself...) |
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[20:49] <rouzic> thanks Riddell :-p |
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[20:49] <Riddell> mhb: ug |
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[20:49] <mhb> Riddell: ug? what does that mean? I'm not happy about it, but it's true. |
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[20:50] <ScottK> Nightrose: Handing out self-burned CDs doesn't look professional |
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[20:50] <mhb> it's got all the developers power and with the LTS removing action, it's got all marketing for itself, too |
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[20:50] <Riddell> ScottK: put them in the shipit covers |
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[20:51] <Nightrose> yea |
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[20:51] <ScottK> Well I just asked for more. |
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[20:51] <Riddell> mhb: so it doesn't need our help, we should be promoting Kubuntu |
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=== jpetso_away is now known as jpetso |
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=== Lure_ is now known as Lure |
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[21:21] <jpatrick> Riddell: apt-cache show kturtle-kde4 - last line says see KDE3 packages for more info |
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=== gryc_ is now known as gryc |
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[21:29] <Vorian> is there something I can help with? :) |
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[21:33] <jjesse_> i love ariports |
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[21:35] <nosrednaekim> big ones? or munincipal ones |
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[21:37] <jjesse_> alll airports |
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[21:37] <jjesse_> was scheduled to leave at 3:00 |
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[21:37] <jjesse_> still havent left |
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[21:37] <nosrednaekim> oh.... sarcasm... ;) |
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[21:37] <jjesse_> sarcasM? |
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[21:39] <nosrednaekim> well, obviously if you are behind time... you don't love airports. |
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[21:44] <jjesse_> grin, just frustrated |
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[21:44] <jjesse_> chicago o'hare is always delayed |
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[21:44] <jpatrick> where's dolphin-kde4 ? |
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[21:45] <crimsun> (in universe?) |
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[21:46] <jpatrick> in the new KDE 4.0 packages I mean |
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[21:48] <jpatrick> ah, found it |
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[21:49] <nosrednaekim> 4.0 packages are already out? |
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[21:49] <Riddell> jpatrick: fair point but I don't think it's worth fixing this week |
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[21:49] <Riddell> Vorian: do you know how to make packages? |
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[21:49] <jpatrick> nosrednaekim: in PPA and hardy |
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[21:50] <Vorian> Riddell: yep, not so well from scratch however |
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[21:50] <nosrednaekim> jpatrick: wow.... bet kubuntu is the first distro to have packages :) |
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[21:51] <Lure_> is it just me, or smb:// does not work properly in kde4? when I copy stuff to XP share it get stalled after several KBs |
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[21:51] <Riddell> Vorian: ask nixternal for an extragear app to package if you want |
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[21:51] <Vorian> Riddell: sounds great :) |
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[21:51] <jjesse_> front page of kubuntu meetings shows the date as january 07 |
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[21:51] <jpatrick> Riddell: shame most are still in new.. |
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[21:51] <Vorian> Riddell: and thanks :) |
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[21:52] <Riddell> jpatrick: most what? |
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[21:52] <Vorian> bbl |
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[21:52] <jpatrick> Riddell: of the kde4 extragears apps we've uploaded |
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[21:52] <Riddell> jpatrick: well we can't let 4.0 packages through until closer to the release day |
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[21:53] <jpatrick> ok |
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[21:53] * nosrednaekim thinks thats rather unfair.... ;) |
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[21:54] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: the alternative is we dont get the tars a week early |
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[21:54] <nosrednaekim> yeah... I know.... but i'm just a selfish user... |
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[22:02] <toma_> kde4 extragear tarballs were all ok ? |
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[22:04] <Riddell> Vorian: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/ktorrent-4.0.0.tar.bz2 if you want to start on one |
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[22:04] <Riddell> Vorian: get the old packages from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/hardy/new/ |
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[22:04] <jpatrick> update rules too |
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[22:06] <Riddell> toma_: ask nixternal for that |
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