2008/01/04/#kubuntu-devel.txt

[00:06] <Riddell> stdin: ping ping, new kde4libs kdepimlibs kdebase-runtime kdebase-kde4 and kdebase-workspace, fancy backporting them in the ppa?
[00:14] <stdin> ooh, new KDE packages... I'll wakeup again :)
[00:15] <Riddell> just a snapshot to practice for the real thing
[00:20] <nixternal> Riddell: ahh, I just noticed those
[00:20] <nixternal> at first I was like, "why would he do that now when release is a week away" :)
[00:22] <nixternal> practice makes perfect :)
[00:27] <stdin> hmm, what's going to happen with the libgif/ungif with gutsy packages? won't libgif want to remove libungif?
[00:28] <nixternal> have to stick with libungif with gutsy more than likely
[00:28] <nixternal> !info libgif-dev gutsy
[00:28] <ubotu> libgif-dev: library for GIF images (development). In component universe, is optional. Version 4.1.4-2 (gutsy), package size 39 kB, installed size 124 kB
[00:28] <stdin> that's what I think, I'll just have to remind myself to edit all the debian/controls
[00:28] <nixternal> ok, so it is there and it has the libungif replace in it
[00:29] <nixternal> isn't it just kdelibs that deps on it?
[00:29] <Riddell> stdin: yeah, you should change that in kde4libs control (twice)
[00:29] <nixternal> hehe ya
[00:29] <nixternal> I think che and I came across that a week or so back
[00:35] <stdin> Riddell: you forgot the comma after libenchant-dev
[00:43] <Riddell> stdin: uh oh, which package?
[00:44] <stdin> kde4libs
[00:44] <Riddell> fixing
[00:46] <Riddell> stdin: fix uploaded, thanks
[00:46] <stdin> np :)
[00:54] <hads> kopete-kde4 depends on libungif4g?
[01:13] <stdin> hads: it only depends on it because kde4libs was built against it, it will depend on libgif when rebuilt against the new kde4libs
[01:13] <hads> stdin: OK, thanks.
=== wolfger_ is now known as wolfger
[03:17] <stdin> Riddell: shouldn't debian/kdelibs-bin.install be debian/kdelibs-bin.install (in kde4libs) ?
=== dasKreech is now known as DaSkreechNSorrow
[03:35]  * Hobbsee waits for kde4.
[03:37] <DaSkreechNSorrow> Isn't it tagged?
[03:39] <Hobbsee> probably
[03:50] <DaSkreechNSorrow> http://troy-at-kde.livejournal.com/13531.html
[04:00] <DaSkreechNSorrow> Hobbsee: ^^^6 should be
[04:09] <DaSkreechNSorrow> kwwii: http://pinheiro-kde.blogspot.com/2008/01/two-years-six-months-and-couple-of-days.html
[04:09] <DaSkreechNSorrow> That's a nice write up
[04:11]  * Jucato waves hello at Hobbsee and DaSkreechNSorrow and goes back to bed...
[04:12] <DaSkreechNSorrow> Jucato: Sleepy?
[04:12] <Jucato> sicky
[04:12] <Jucato> colds + cold-induced sore throat and itchiness...
[04:17] <DaSkreechNSorrow> Well
[04:18] <DaSkreechNSorrow> my cousin just committed suicide so I think I'm going to go lay down as well
[04:18] <Jucato> ouch :(
[04:18] <Jucato> condolences...
[04:18] <DaSkreechNSorrow> hope that gets better Jucato
[04:19] <DaSkreechNSorrow> Thanks Jucato
[04:24]  * Hobbsee waves at Jucato
[04:44] <DaSkreechNSorrow> night all
[04:45] <Hobbsee> night :(
[04:45]  * DaSkreechNSorrow hugs Hobbsee
[04:45]  * Hobbsee hugs DaSkreechNSorrow back
=== Vorian_ is now known as vorian
[05:32] <nixternal> hola
[05:34] <ScottK> nixternal: Happy New Year and all that jazz.
[05:34] <nixternal> same to you and all that jazz :)
[05:34] <ScottK> Drove through your state on Tuesday.  It was cold an snowy.
[05:35] <nixternal> tell me about it
[05:35] <nixternal> we will be up into the 50s this weekend though
[05:35] <ScottK> Stayed far away from Chicago as a result.
[05:39] <nixternal> ya, we have just over 10" in our backyard
[05:40] <ScottK> My mother in law lives in Easter Iowa.  We ended up cutting south from I-80 via I-74 and then taking I-70 east.
[05:40] <ScottK> Easter/Eastern
[05:41] <vorian> we didn't get squat in Ohio
[05:43] <ScottK> Where in Iowa?  I spent night before last snowed in in Zanesville.
[05:43] <ScottK> Ohio I mean.
[05:44] <vorian> bah
[05:44] <vorian> I'm in Chillicothe (south of Columbus)
[05:44] <vorian> It snowed and inch, if that.
[05:44] <ScottK> Ah.  Well I quit for the night when I couldn't tell where the road stopped and the shoulder began.
[05:44] <vorian> hehe
[05:45] <vorian> that's when Ohio's finest drivers hit the road
[05:45] <vorian> you missed the fun
[05:45] <vorian> :)
[05:46] <ScottK> On roughly level ground it's OK.  I was headed east into the mountain though.
[05:46] <vorian> yeah, not much fun there.
[06:00] <nixternal> ScottK: come on, driving through the mountains on 70 rock
[06:01] <ScottK> I'm more of a chicken with 3 kids in the car.
[06:02] <nixternal> I always like to stop in Breezewood and hang out for a bit before taking that last few hour drive into southern maryland
[06:08] <ScottK> I took the southern route using I-79 and I-68, so missed Breezewood this time.
[09:16] <level1> Hi
[09:16] <level1> I added a page to the Ubuntu Community documentation.  Is this appropriate? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KDERamdisk?action=show
[10:47] <Tonio_> hi there
[10:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll upload guidance tomorrow probably, I need python-kde3 to be uploaded first
[10:48] <mornfall> G'day.
[10:49] <Riddell> Tonio_: you can upload more than one thing at once you know..
[10:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes I know, but I don't want to put a strict dependancy and wait for the package to build
[10:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: I prefer to do it that way :)
[10:50] <Tonio_> atm I'm trying to understand why kdebase still ftbfs while I tested the build locally with success
[10:50] <Tonio_> my last patch doesn't apply on the build farm but applies locally
[10:51] <Riddell> does it contain Makefile.in?
[10:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: it does
[10:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: all I changed is a little patch to the kdm.init file in the debian folder, as the system locale isn't used anymore
[10:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: no big deal...
[10:57] <Tonio_> but 2 ftbfs for the moment ;)
[10:58] <Riddell> stdin: kde4libs_3.98.0~svn755919-2ubuntu3 uploaded with fixed kde4libs-bin.install file
[10:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: atm I'm still fixing kdepyuic, still some few problems, before uploading
[11:30] <mornfall> So. Do we have perl-qt for qt4?
[11:30] <mornfall> And someone willing to port qt debconf over?
[11:31] <mornfall> Given the sorry state of konsolepart, I can as well stop now if we don't have anything at all.
[11:40] <Riddell> mornfall: someone did talk about a perl-qt4 once in #kde-devel, can't remember who
[11:41] <mornfall> This will get ugly, quick.
[11:41] <mornfall> : - (
[11:42] <mornfall> Choices I can think of
[11:42] <mornfall> 1) going without konsole
[11:42] <mornfall> - probably need a piping debconf frontend to communicate with adept itself directly
[11:42] <mornfall> 2) forking konsole
[11:46] <mornfall> Or. Hmh.
[11:46] <mornfall> I could harness dpkg somehow.
[11:46] <mornfall> Whatever. Bbiab.
[11:49] <Lure> Tonio_: will you pick up latest svn for guidance?
[11:49] <Tonio_> \sh_away: ping ?
[11:50] <Lure> Tonio_: I might have some patches pending, but not sure if I will have time tonight (might rather work on Slovenian transaltion of kde4
[11:50] <Tonio_> Lure: yep I have a package ready
[11:50] <Tonio_> Lure: please send me the patches
[11:50] <Tonio_> when ready of course :)
[11:50] <Lure> Tonio_: ok, no problem will wait until next snapshot then
[11:51] <Lure> Tonio_: they are minor improvements, and I plan to do better bug triage in near future)
[11:51] <Tonio_> Lure: great
[12:05] <Tonio_> \sh_away: when you read this, kdepyuic code is really buggy, long options don't work by default, as they are written in a simple string and not a list of string.... I'm just fixing this
[12:14] <Riddell> Tonio_: don't spend too long on it though, it's about to be obsolete
[12:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: just finished :/
[12:16] <Riddell> fair enough
[12:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: well, about to be obsolete doesn't mean anything to me :) I want power-manager translated, whatever needs to be fixed
[12:17] <Tonio_> if obsolete means another 1 year without translation for it, that's not good :)
[12:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: python-kde3 uploaded
[12:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: next thing is ark, I'll try to debug it
=== jpetso is now known as jpetso_away
[12:22] <mornfall> Hm, no perl-qt4.
[12:22] <mornfall> I will try the piping thing.
[12:25] <Riddell> mornfall: ug
[12:25] <Riddell> surely debconf bindings /could/ be written in something other than perl?
[12:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: kpar2 has been fixed upstream, should be gpl v2 now
[12:26] <Riddell> Tonio_: remind me again what kpar2 is?
[12:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: has t been rejected from the new queue again ? I uploaded it last week
[12:26] <Riddell> Tonio_: still in New queue, should I reject?
[12:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: no, should be accepted I guess ;)
[12:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: frontend to read splitted archives and auto repair them
[12:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: used for newsgroups downloading
[12:29] <Riddell> Tonio_: I can't accept it while all the files are marked as GPL 3
[12:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: those shouldn't
[12:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: they are marked gpl v3, unless you don't have the good upload :)
[12:30] <Tonio_> are they all gpl v3 ?
[12:30] <Riddell>  licensecheck src/*
[12:30] <Riddell> src/kpar2object.cpp: GPL (v3 or later) (with incorrect FSF address)
[12:30] <Riddell> src/kpar2object.h: GPL (v3 or later) (with incorrect FSF address)
[12:30] <Riddell> src/kpar2thread.cpp: GPL (v3 or later) (with incorrect FSF address)
[12:30] <Riddell> etc
[12:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: what's upstream version of the upload ?
[12:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: problem was resolved with version 0.2.6
[12:32] <Riddell> 0.2.5-0ubuntu1
[12:32] <Riddell> ah, hang on
[12:32] <Riddell> there's another one here
[12:32] <Tonio_> this one should be the good one :)
[12:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: upstream fixed the issue after my mail
[12:33] <Riddell> groovy
[12:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: well that's not a killer app, but exactly the kind of app some windows users are very happy with, so we need one at least ;)
[12:34] <Riddell> Tonio_: accepted
[12:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: super :)
[12:42] <Tonio_> interesting, the problem with ark is in fact a problem with tar, last version has a bug.... ;)
[12:45] <mornfall> Riddell: Well, not really, since debconf loads the frontend the perl way.
[12:46] <mornfall> Riddell: You need to have a frontend that relays to non-perl.
=== jpetso_away is now known as jpetso
[12:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: ark problem is due to a change in the way tar outputs the exit status....
[12:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: Normalize using TARERROR with an exit status, instead of calling TARERROR with 0 first, then _exit. On exit calls, use EXIT_SUCCESS instead of 0
[12:52] <Tonio_> changelog for version 1.19
[12:53] <Tonio_> dunno how to fix that in the code btw... maybe checking if exitstatus is different from 1
=== Hobbsee_ is now known as Hobbsee
[13:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum that ark bug is weird, really, it looks like tar has been change to correct the output and ark has a bug for years, which we couldn't see before...
[13:41] <Riddell> seems believable
[13:42] <nosrednaekim> kde4 doesn't like compiz... but thats probably not any news.
[13:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: the issue is when creating the tmp file in fact, the command passed to tar seems to be bad somehow...
[13:43] <Tonio_> I'll try to get that fixed
[13:50] <nosrednaekim> are there daily builds for hardy?
[13:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's a tar bug
[13:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have the patch, here, testing and uploading if it is okay
[13:53] <Tonio_> patch is from tar cvs repo
[13:55] <Riddell> Tonio_: good stuff
[13:55] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: CDs, sure
[13:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: the problem is that due to the poor ark quality, I always investigate on the ark side...
[13:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: sometimes causing a waste of time :)
[13:56] <nosrednaekim> yeah, I just found them. Time to make a hardy partition :)
[14:08] <iRon> nosrednaekim: hi.. your script works fine on kde3
[14:09] <nosrednaekim> iRon: sweet.
[14:09] <iRon> nosrednaekim: much better then starting fusion-icon at startup :)
[14:09] <nosrednaekim> iRon: just have to clear something up with mhb and its pretty much done.
[14:10] <nosrednaekim> iRon: I would assume its a bit faster too
[14:10] <iRon> it's true
[14:13] <nosrednaekim> ok, have a nice day everyone.
[14:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: thanks for uploading kdebase with the correct fix.... shame on me I don't know what happened.... 2 attempts with a 2 lines patch...
[14:31] <Tonio_> tar uploaded btw
[14:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: some users where suggesting to make kdm use preferUser setting by default
[14:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: I think that would be nice, it uses the user photo if exists instead of the ugly human face icon
[14:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: interested in using this by default ?
[14:34] <Riddell> Tonio_: sure
[14:34] <Riddell> I thought it already would
[14:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: nope, it is commented by default afaik, lemme check
[14:35] <Tonio_> Jucato: you suggested this to me
[14:36] <Tonio_> Jucato: how does it check the faces by default ? kdmrc refers to a standard folder so that means the user has to manually put the file in it ?
[14:37] <Jucato> Tonio_: yeah they have to manually set a user photo if they haven't, otherwise the plain head is used afaik
[14:37] <Tonio_> Jucato: seems to use UserOnly by default
[14:37] <Jucato> ah the preference?
[14:37] <Tonio_> Jucato: what should we change to the config then ?
[14:38] <Jucato> hm.. isn't it AdminOnly by default?
[14:38] <Tonio_> Jucato: ah yes default is AdminOnly, we should then use PreferUser or Useronly
[14:38] <Tonio_> probably PreferUser is better no ?
[14:38] <Jucato> PreferUser is better imho
[14:38] <Tonio_> it uses both with priority given to the users face right ?
[14:39] <Jucato> PreferUser will fallback to admin's settings (plain face) if there's no face picture set by the user afaik
[14:39] <Jucato> UserOnly will not use anything if there's nothing set by the user (I think)
[14:39] <Tonio_> yep that seems to be the good way to do
[14:39]  * Jucato double checks the handbook :P
[14:39] <Tonio_> Jucato: fuxing kdebase and kds ;)
[14:39] <Jucato> hehe :)
[14:42] <Jucato> "You can configure the admin picture here, for each user on the system. Depending on the order selected above, users may be able to override your selection."
[14:42] <Jucato> http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdebase/kdm/configuring-kdm.html#kdmconfig-users
[14:42] <Jucato> not very helpful though hehe
[14:44] <Hobbsee> Riddell: please remember to *not* use ubuntu-devel@ as the maintainer for ppa-based packages
[14:45] <Hobbsee> stdin: ^
[14:47] <Riddell> hrm?
[14:47] <yuriy> mornfall: so how about darcs send?
[14:48] <yuriy> mornfall: i did some of the aforementioned refactoring
[14:48] <Hobbsee> Riddell: because then the ubutnu people get bugged about bugs in the ppa packages, as they're listed as maintainer
[14:48] <Hobbsee> Riddell: also, koffice has a broken debian/copyright
[14:49] <Riddell> Hobbsee: how do they get bugs?
[14:50] <Hobbsee> Riddell:
[14:50] <Hobbsee> --- koffice2-1.9.95.1.orig/debian/copyright
[14:50] <Hobbsee> +++ koffice2-1.9.95.1/debian/copyright
[14:50] <Hobbsee> @@ -0,0 +1,24 @@
[14:50] <Hobbsee> +This package was debianized by Ana Beatriz Guerrero Lopez <ana@debian.org> on
[14:50] <Hobbsee> +Fri, 19 Oct 2007 03:05:46 +0200.
[14:50] <Hobbsee> +
[14:50] <Hobbsee> +It was downloaded from <url://example.com>
[14:50] <Hobbsee> +
[14:50] <Hobbsee> +Upstream Author(s):
[14:50] <Hobbsee> +
[14:50] <Hobbsee> +    <put author's name and email here>
[14:50] <Hobbsee> +    <likewise for another author>
[14:50] <Hobbsee> +
[14:50] <Hobbsee> +Copyright:
[14:51] <Hobbsee> +
[14:51] <Hobbsee> +    <Copyright (C) YYYY Name OfAuthor>
[14:51] <Hobbsee> +    <likewise for another author>
[14:51] <Hobbsee> +
[14:51] <Hobbsee> +License:
[14:51] <Hobbsee> +
[14:51] <Hobbsee> +    <Put the license of the package here indented by 4 spaces>
[14:51] <Hobbsee> that sort of stuff is classy, especially when it's put on kubuntu.org
[14:51] <Hobbsee> goodness knows what else has been missed
[14:51] <Hobbsee> (and yes, i know stdin's new)
[14:53] <Riddell> !pastebin  !!
[14:53] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pastebin  !! - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[14:53] <Jucato> :D
[14:53] <Tonio_> http://paste.toniox.org/
[14:53] <Tonio_> for example :)
[14:55] <Hobbsee> heh
[14:55] <Hobbsee> sorry :)
[14:57] <mornfall> yuriy: One sec.
[14:58] <Jucato> moin Hobbsee, Riddell, Tonio_, mornfall, yuriy! :)
[14:58] <mornfall> yuriy: Can you try running darcs send?
[14:58] <Hobbsee> hiya Jucato
[14:58] <mornfall> yuriy: I have set up _darcs/prefs/email on the two repos.
[14:59] <mornfall> Hi all.
[15:00] <mornfall> yuriy: I am greylisting so it may take a while to reach me at first.
[15:04] <Riddell> Tonio_: wrong version number on k-d-s there (not that it matters)
[15:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: saw that, just uploaded a new version with soem french translation, labeled 7, not 5ubuntu2
[15:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: forgot about the version change, using dch everytime....
[15:16] <Tonio_> someone knows if gnome has a frontend to modify the sudoers file ?
[15:16] <Tonio_> I have an unmaintained peace of code here for kde that looks interesting...
[15:16] <Tonio_> would be nice to convert that to kcm module
[15:17] <Riddell> Tonio_: not that I know of
[15:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: wouldn't that be interesting ?
[15:17] <Riddell> Tonio_: certainly would
[15:17] <Tonio_> great, will investigate on this on my free time then :)
[15:17] <Tonio_> community time is only for bug fixing atm
[15:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://ksudo.sourceforge.net/screen_en.php
[15:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: that in a kcm module would really be nice imho
[15:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: talking about sudo, lots of people seem to really appreciate kdesudo, even at mandriva or debian :)
[15:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: hopefully, they didn't look at the code in it haha !
[15:21] <yuriy> argh so much for patches in context
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
=== d-miller_ is now known as d-miller
[15:32] <Tonio_> ScottK: what is the status or diskmanager ?
[15:32] <Tonio_> ScottK: need me to work on the package a bit and get it approved ?
[15:33] <\sh> hola....
[15:34] <\sh> hey Tonio_ :)
[15:34] <Tonio_> \sh: hey ;)
[15:35] <Tonio_> \sh: I had to change a few things to your patch, as the kdepyuic code was buggy on args parsing
[15:35] <Tonio_> \sh: working like a charm this time, so I upoaded
[15:35] <Tonio_> \sh: here is the debdiff
[15:36] <\sh> Tonio_: cool...if this will fix the problems with the other stuff, we could try to push this patch upstream...
[15:36] <Tonio_> http://paste.toniox.org/2764
[15:36] <\sh> Tonio_: most likely it will be the same for pykde4
[15:36] <Tonio_> \sh: well long options didn't work everytime due to bad getopts usage
[15:37] <Tonio_> \sh: it has to use a strings list and not a long string
[15:37] <Tonio_> \sh: feel free to check how it does with pykde4 ;)
[15:37] <\sh> Tonio_: so another bugfix :) wonderful :)
[15:37] <Tonio_> yup
[15:38] <Tonio_> next to that we should have a translatable guidance-power-manager, which is what I wanted for a very long ime
[15:38] <Tonio_> it is not nice compared to other distros to have such important things in english
[15:38] <Tonio_> brb, I have to restart kde due to kdebase update
[15:42] <Tonio_> yeepee, kdm uses the system locale again :)
[15:42] <Tonio_> \sh: so yes, best thing would be that kdedistutils uses the i18n option by default
[15:42] <Tonio_> \sh: but for that, you are the guy to decide what to do, not me :)
[15:43] <\sh> Tonio_: what provides kdedistutils?
[15:45] <Tonio_> \sh: pykdeextensions
[15:45] <Tonio_> \sh: kdedistutils is used with generic setup.py files
[15:45] <\sh> Tonio_: ok...I'll prepare an upstream patch with our changes to kdepyuic and push it upstream
[15:45] <Tonio_> \sh: see guidance source for example
[15:45] <\sh> and then I'll check for pykdeextensions
[15:47] <yuriy> mornfall: sending
[15:47] <yuriy> mornfall: i had to resolve the conflict with your changes since i moved the code to a different file, but hopefully all is fine (seems to work)
[15:48] <yuriy> mornfall: the checkboxes are really slow for some reason though
[15:48] <Tonio_> apachelogger: ping ?
[15:58] <yuriy> mornfall: ignore the first e-mail, forgot to merge something, 2nd one is good.
[15:58] <Lure> Riddell: is there an easy way to get kde4-only install of hardy? Just install server/minimal + some kde4 meta package?
[15:59] <Lure> Riddell: will we have kubuntu-kde4-desktop?
[15:59] <Riddell> Lure: kde4 or kde4-core
[15:59] <Riddell> kubuntu-kde4-desktop yes when seeds get sorted
[15:59] <Riddell> I havn't tested those two by the way, would be interesting to know if they work
[16:00] <Lure> Riddell: I plan to install my old home desktop tonight, so will report back
[16:01] <Lure> I want to see kubuntu kde4 packages (my laptop is always on SVN version)
[16:02] <jjesse> kubuntu-kde4-desktop will be the package to install kde4 on kubuntu then?
[16:02] <Riddell> jjesse: one day yes
[16:02] <jjesse> hrmm will probablly rebuild laptop then with it ;)
[16:12] <\sh> Tonio_: I send the patch upstream
[16:13] <Tonio_> \sh: super :)
[16:14] <Tonio_> \sh: have an idea about that ?
[16:14] <Tonio_> pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libhd13-dev which is a virtual package
[16:14] <Tonio_> looks very real package to me....
[16:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: already seen that with pbuilder ?
[16:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: this package indeed provides the old version, but is seen by aptitude like a virtual package....... weird
[16:16]  * Tonio_ hates aptitude......
[16:16] <\sh> Tonio_: I saw something similiar inside pbuilder..a different package but a similiar message
[16:16] <Tonio_> \sh: seems like an aptitude bug in fact
[16:17] <Tonio_> or pbuilder bug in aptitude usage......;
[16:17] <\sh> Tonio_: try it with apt :)
[16:17] <\sh> or just a bug in pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy
[16:17] <Tonio_> \sh: how to change that in pbuilder, is there a way to confiure it ?
[16:17] <nixternal> Tonio_: it is pbuilder...I have seen not only that package name, but others along with it...sometimes I had problems, but most of the time everything went smooth
[16:19] <Tonio_> pbuilder-satisfydepends-classic
[16:20] <Tonio_> that will do the trick ;)
[16:20] <\sh> the default pbuilder-satisfydepends should do it..
[16:21] <Tonio_> \sh: it now points to the "aptitude" implementation, see pbuilderrc manpage
[16:21] <Tonio_> \sh: changing this to the classic will back to old apt usage
[16:21] <\sh> Tonio_: for hardy? on gutsy it's still the old one
[16:21] <Tonio_> \sh: changed with hardy yep
[16:22] <\sh> Tonio_: oh groovy :)
[16:22] <Tonio_> ;)
[16:26] <\sh> hmmm...I should do an upgrade to hardy...
[16:26]  * ryanakca wonders the same thing
[16:27]  * ryanakca guesses he'll start the upgrade before bed tonight
[16:28] <\sh> 11 mins left ,-)
[16:29] <Tonio_> there is a really nasty bug on hardy I'd like to see fixed, but I didn't found out the solution myself
[16:30] <Tonio_> if someone is interested : in kdepim, the kitchensync plugin for kontact is disabled by default, and causes a segfault if activated...
[16:30] <Tonio_> bad not to have sync in the menu, especially since kitchensync works like a charm standalone....
[16:32] <vorian> wolfger: werd! (even though you are from michigan)
[16:32]  * vorian hides
[16:59] <ScottK> Tonio_: I haven't been reviewing new packages this cycle, so I'm not sure about diskmanager.
[17:05] <Tonio_> k
[17:14] <apachelogger> Tonio_: pong
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
[17:31] <Riddell> apachelogger: profoX in #kde-devel wants an amarok developer
[17:48] <nixternal> hrmm, my desktop froze...I haven't had a hard freeze in Kubuntu ever..that was a first
[17:49] <Riddell> nixternal: doing anything interesting?
[17:49] <Riddell> at the time
[17:49] <nixternal> I am hula dancing, that's it :)
[17:49] <nixternal> what's up?
[17:50] <Riddell> just sitting waiting for KDE 4 tars to appear :)
[17:50] <nixternal> hehe
[17:51] <nixternal> refreshing ktown over and over?
[17:51] <apachelogger> konqueror's auto refresh :D
[17:51] <nixternal> hehe
[17:51] <nixternal> gotta be careful though
[17:51] <nixternal> you can get away if you are using fish://
[17:52] <nixternal> but I did that before with sftp:// and it said I had to many connections and booted me out :p
[17:52] <apachelogger> lol
[17:52] <apachelogger> talking about fish
[17:52] <apachelogger> it's broken in .0
[17:52] <apachelogger> well, not br0ken
[17:52] <apachelogger> just mostly useless
[17:52] <apachelogger> you can't really use it anywhere than in konqueror/dolphin
[17:52] <nixternal> I thought fish:// was going to be replaced with sftp://
[17:53] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[17:53] <apachelogger> still there
[17:53] <Riddell> it works in places where sftp doesn't
[17:53] <apachelogger> and has broken umlauts :D
[17:53] <nixternal> hrmm, I though for some reason that sftp:// would work with all ssh
[17:53] <nixternal> learning something new every day
[17:53] <apachelogger> I think that's one of the oldest bugs in kde anyway
[17:53] <apachelogger> broken umlauts in fish
[17:54]  * apachelogger is wondering why compiling kdegames was that fast
[17:54] <nixternal> me too
[17:54] <nixternal> so I wasn't the only one to notice that
[17:55] <apachelogger> that was like 5 minutes
[17:55] <nixternal> mine didn't even take that long
[17:55] <nixternal> I compiled kdelibs this morning in about 7 minutes
[17:55] <apachelogger> probably icecream did slow it down :P
[17:55] <nixternal> kdepim seemed to have gone much faster
[17:55] <apachelogger> nixternal: fresh compile?
[17:55] <nixternal> kdepim has always been the compile hog
[17:55] <nixternal> yes, fresh
[17:56] <apachelogger> very strange
[17:56] <nixternal> using the -j3 flag now is unbelievably faster
[17:56] <apachelogger> -j4 here
[17:58] <nixternal> I have a podcast interview in like 2 hours
[17:58] <nixternal> I hate those
[17:58] <apachelogger> nixternal: 'bout kubuntu?
[17:58] <nixternal> about me
[17:58] <apachelogger> boring
[17:58] <nixternal> but me == kubuntu :p
[17:58] <apachelogger> :P
[17:58] <nixternal> hahahaha
[17:58] <nixternal> ass
[17:58] <apachelogger> hm
[17:59] <apachelogger> promo++
[17:59] <nixternal> you know it
[17:59]  * apachelogger is kinda afraid of the amarok2 promo
[17:59] <apachelogger> the campaign is going to kill me
[17:59] <apachelogger> one way or another
[17:59] <nixternal> come on, amarok is already known as one of the greatest multimedia apps evah!
[18:00] <nixternal> even people at school know what amarok is, and actually a few have tried out linux because of it
[18:00] <nixternal> is there, or will there be, a windows port of it?
[18:00] <apachelogger> when I'm talking about world domination .... I'm usually serious
[18:01] <apachelogger> nixternal: actually due to the fairly long beta testing there should be one the very same time as binaries for linux
[18:01] <nixternal> nice
[18:01] <nixternal> put that bad boy on a "free software" CD and smack all kinds of people with it :)
[18:01] <apachelogger> woah, indeed :D
[18:01] <nixternal> I finally installed iTunes on my Windows box cuz I have never used it before...and it is by far the dumbest thing I have seen
[18:02] <nixternal> I will take WMP over it any day of the week
[18:02] <apachelogger> yeah, I can't use it either
[18:02] <nixternal> it is weird
[18:02] <apachelogger> the nu winamp also appears rather strange to me
[18:02] <nixternal> don't know if it is just me, but apps on Windows boxes don't look as polished as apps on Linux boxes
[18:02]  * apachelogger thinks: nixternal got too much oxygen :P
[18:02] <nixternal> and virus software is insane
[18:03] <nixternal> virus software can cripple your box faster than a 2 year old with a screwdriver
[18:03] <apachelogger> oh, btw, we have to package firefox-theme-oxygen
[18:03] <apachelogger> once I'm done with it
[18:03] <nixternal> bah firefox
[18:03] <nixternal> soon we shall have Konqi w/ WebKit
[18:03] <apachelogger> yeah, in like half a year
[18:03] <nixternal> I totally hate Firefox with a passion
[18:04] <nixternal> I like IE 7 more than I do Firefox
[18:04] <apachelogger> plus still then a lot of people will install firefox
[18:04] <nixternal> true
[18:04] <apachelogger> so it makes sense to provide a oxygen theme for it
[18:04] <nixternal> even though Opera isn't free, I think it is the best browser right now
[18:04] <nixternal> but my fav's are still Konqi and Epiphany
[18:05]  * apachelogger never got opera like he wanted it to be
[18:05] <apachelogger> I'm probably just too much used to konqueror
[18:05] <nixternal> ya, no doubt
[18:06] <nixternal> interesting...first time that kdebindings wouldn't compile for me
[18:21] <Lure> Riddell: kde4 package has lots of unsatisifed dependancies
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
[18:21] <Lure> Riddell:  what was the other meta package?
[18:23] <Lure> seems that some packages are not built yet (wanting 4:3.97.0-3ubuntu4)
[18:28] <Riddell> Lure: kdelibs is a bit broken in hardy
[18:29] <Lure> Riddell: ok, will wait with my desktop install then
[18:39] <\sh> gnarf
[18:46] <\sh> bah...kdedistutils does implement pykdeuic by itself...
[18:47] <\sh> it adds i18n support etc.
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
[19:45] <yuriy> sounds like aseigo doesn't agree with canonical on the 3.5 support issue
[19:46] <nixternal> damn, I was just going to say that
[19:46] <nixternal> Riddell: you see Aaron's post? KDE 3.5 to be supported for "years"
[19:47] <Riddell> I've never said otherwise
[19:48] <nixternal> I know, but your boss(es) did unfortunately...I think they already knew, they just fear you :)
[19:59] <Lure_> yuriy: http://www.tllts.org/dl.php - interesting auote stats aroun 25th minute
[19:59] <Lure_> quote
[19:59] <Lure_> starts
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
[19:59]  * Lure_ cannot type in bed
=== alleeHol is now known as allee
=== Lure_ is now known as Lure
[20:24] <yuriy> Lure: there's a list of episodes?
[20:25] <Lure> yuriy: in drop down list and on main page, afair
[20:26] <yuriy> Lure: i mean, what am i looking for? what ep?
[20:26] <Lure> yuriy: last one is aaron (I just have file here #226)
[20:26] <Lure> http://tllts.org/mirror.php?fname=tllts_226-01-02-08.ogg
[20:27] <Lure> direct link
[20:47] <nixternal> podcast interview complete
[20:47] <nixternal> that was kind of fun
[21:22] <Vorian> nixternal: can I have your autograph?
[21:22] <Vorian> :)
[21:23] <nixternal> did you watch the Apprentice Celebrity Edition last night?
[21:23] <nixternal> $5,000 for a hotdog or bottle of water and my autograph :p
[21:24] <Vorian> lol
[21:24] <Vorian> I'll give 10k
[21:25] <nixternal> In the mountains of California, hourly snowfall rates could reach 6 to 8 inches. Snow accumulations between 2 feet (valley floors) and locally 12 feet (ridge tops) will bury the Sierra by the end of the weekend.
[21:25] <nixternal> holy smokes
[21:25] <Vorian> whoah
[21:25] <nixternal> 6 to 8 inches an hour? 12 feet of snow?
[21:25] <Vorian> you know about Donner Pass right?
[21:25] <nixternal> oh man, what's up level1 :)
[21:25] <nixternal> ya
[21:26] <nixternal> I hope this system doesn't come to chicago when it is cold
[21:26] <level1> take a look at the page I wrote
[21:26] <level1> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KDERamdisk?action=show
[21:27] <nixternal> 52 on monday here in chicago...melt all of our snow..woohoo
[21:28] <nixternal> level1: that is pretty slick
[21:28] <nixternal> much easier than nfs :)
[21:28] <level1> thanks
[21:28] <level1> I made a couple of mistakes... I'll fix them later tonight
[21:29] <level1> please peer-review it, and correct any mistakes
[21:29] <level1> I gotta go
[21:29] <Yorokobi> hmmm, that storm will be hitting me later tonight
[21:29] <level1> thanks!
[21:29] <nixternal> one suggestion, change your 'level1' username references and all username references to something like <your_username>..just an idea (ie. /home/<your_username>/.kde/foo/bar)
[21:29] <nixternal> Yorokobi: they said 150MPH winds
[21:29] <nixternal> that is insane
[21:29] <nixternal> I have been in hurricanes before, but not 150MPH winds
[21:30] <nixternal> I guess this storm has tore up the Oakland/San Fran and Sacramento areas pretty good
[21:30] <Yorokobi> nixternal, well, hopefully it'll slow down before it hits the Wasatch mountain range :)
[21:31] <nixternal> ya, you won't get 12 feet, just 8 feet :p
[21:31] <Vorian> haha
[21:32] <Yorokobi> I just hope all the ice melts off my driveway today. I hate shoveling snow with a layer of ice at the bottom ...
[21:32] <nixternal> the last time I have seen big snow was 1995/1996 in Maryland when we got slammed by a nor'easter
[21:32] <nixternal> before that would have been the blizzard of 1979 in Michigan
[21:32] <Yorokobi> nixternal, I was there for that one, too. (I was in VA)
[21:32] <nixternal> snow blowers are the best :)
[21:33] <nixternal> Yorokobi: ya, that one sucked
[21:33] <nixternal> in 1994 there was the nor'easter ice storm
[21:33] <nixternal> I was in southern md across the potomic from va :)
[21:33] <nixternal> ya, I can spell
[21:33] <ScottK> nixternal: It was '96.
[21:33] <nixternal> Potomac
[21:33] <nixternal> ScottK: January right?
[21:33] <nixternal> I couldn't remember if it happened in 95 or 96
[21:33] <Yorokobi> I was in Sterling Park, just northwest of Herndon
[21:33] <nixternal> I know it was the winter though
[21:34] <nixternal> you were up by ScottK
[21:34] <Yorokobi> It was Jan 1996
[21:35] <nixternal> isn't Herndon where Dulles is?
[21:35] <Yorokobi> yep
[21:35] <ScottK> Yes.  Jan '96
[21:35] <nixternal> off of 267 iirc
[21:36] <ScottK> I remember migh late first wife hauling our then one year old around the street out front of our house using a laundry basket for a sled.
[21:36] <Yorokobi> SR7 (the highway from Alexandria out past Winchester goes right through Sterling Park
[21:36] <Yorokobi> hmmm, missed a )
[21:37] <nixternal> ScottK: hahahha, I skitched behind a pickup in a laundry basket before
[21:41] <\sh> damn
[21:41] <\sh> who was the
[21:41] <\sh> /usr/sbin/debootstrap: 317: cannot create /var/cache/pbuilder/build/8506/./test-dev-null: No such device or address
[21:41] <\sh> E: Cannot install into target '/var/cache/pbuilder/build/8506/.' mounted with noexec or nodev
[21:41] <\sh> error with pbuilder create running a hardy system
[21:44] <wolfger> vorian: 'sup?
[21:44] <Vorian> wolfger: I was just giving you a shout out :)
[21:44] <Vorian> even though you are from michigan
[21:45] <wolfger> lol
[21:45] <wolfger> to what do I owe this Buckeyed honor?
[21:45] <nixternal> hahaha
[21:45] <nixternal> damn hairy nut
[21:46] <wolfger> hmm
[21:46] <Vorian> wolfger: you made a comment on me blog
[21:46] <Vorian> nixternal: we'll see about hairy nuts next monday
[21:47]  * wolfger tries to recall which blogs he's recently spouted his opinion on....
[21:49] <Vorian> wolfger: no worries man
[22:08] <danimo> heya
[22:08] <nixternal> howdy danimo!
[22:09] <danimo> are there current feisty packages for KDE 4 ?
[22:09] <nixternal> not for feisty
[22:09] <danimo> it's a pain to upgrade to hardy just for the heck of it
[22:09] <nixternal> just hardy which are being backported to gutsy
[22:09] <danimo> nixternal: but there is no backport yet, is there?
[22:10] <nixternal> stdin: how far did you get on the backports?
[22:10] <nixternal> don't know if he finished them yesterday or not
[22:10] <nixternal> I think he was tossing them into the PPA, let me check really quick
[22:11] <nixternal> actually, Riddell or stdin, are these latest packages the latest SVN checkout?
[22:11] <nixternal> I have been building KDE 4 from SVN for the past couple of months
[22:12] <nixternal> nope, they haven't uplaoded them to the PPA as of yet
[22:14] <danimo> PPA?
[22:14] <Riddell> nixternal: two days ago
[22:14] <danimo> Riddell: how can kde 4 be installed along with KDE 3 btw?
[22:14] <danimo> Riddell: not all apps have different names, aye?
[22:16] <Lure> danimo: Personal Package Archive
[22:16] <Lure> danimo: like SuSE build service
[22:17] <fdoving> danimo: yeah, like dolphin-kde4, etc.
[22:17] <Riddell> danimo: we install to /usr/lib/kde4 in the packages
[22:17] <Riddell> and have wrapper scripts in /usr/bin and .desktop files for them
[22:18] <Riddell> danimo: there's packages of rc2 for gutsy with svn from a couple of days ago on their way
[22:19] <danimo> Riddell: why not use /opt/ ?
[22:19] <danimo>  /usr/lib is for libs after all...
[22:19] <danimo> Lure: ah
[22:20] <Riddell> danimo: it's mildly more compliant with debian policy
[22:20] <danimo> Riddell: yeah, but makes so sense whatsoever</bluntly voiced opinion>
[22:22] <Lure> Riddell: kdepimlibs will need give-back now that kde4libs built, right?
[22:22] <Riddell> Lure: yes
[22:22] <Riddell> Lure: please ask for that
[22:23] <mhb>  /opt makes no sense whatsoever, I can agree on that
[22:23] <Lure> mhb: it makes sense for proprietary sw
[22:24] <Lure> but I would agree with danimo that having it in bin + rename would be better
[22:24] <yuriy> aren't a lot of the packages already doing that?
[22:24] <danimo> Lure: no, my vote is on /opt/kde4
[22:25] <mhb> there's nothing in /opt currently and little need for KDE4 to go there
[22:25] <yuriy> how about for KDE3 to go there ;-)
[22:26] <danimo> yuriy: would be a pain for compatibility
[22:26] <yuriy> danimo: j/k of course. i'm still on kde3 myself
[22:27] <danimo> mhb: well, why do you think so?
[22:27] <Lure> danimo: I like what suse will do - they had kde in /opt and can use /usr now for kde4 ;-)
[22:27] <danimo> mhb: the advantages of a seperate dir a la /usr/lib are still there plus it's in a location that's dedicated for optional packages (which kde4 atm is)
[22:27] <danimo> Lure: yepp, I know
[22:28] <Lure> danimo: that is thinking in advance ;-)
[22:28] <danimo> Lure: no, that's being talked into doing it so
[22:28] <danimo> Lure: it used to be /opt/kde, then /opt/kde2 and now /opt/kde3
[22:28] <danimo> so it would be logical to continue with /opt/kde4
[22:28] <mhb> danimo: every other optional package goes into /usr
[22:29] <mhb> danimo: KDE should not be treated differently
[22:29] <danimo> mhb: with the problem that all binaries have to be renamed
[22:29] <Lure> danimo: oh, right - I did not know the before kde3 story
[22:29] <danimo> with unforseen bug-potential
[22:29] <danimo> <- long time suse user
[22:29] <Lure> danimo: if we go with /opt, when do we move back to /usr?
[22:30] <Lure> coexistance of kde3 and kde4 is a problem anyhow
[22:30] <mhb> never
[22:30] <danimo> Lure: kde4 should be in /usr for all distros that ship it as main desktop
[22:30] <danimo> Lure: but I can see how that might become a pain
[22:30] <mhb> danimo: you (upstream) created the problem in the first place :o)
[22:30] <Lure> danimo: kubuntu will have two cd's: kde3 and kde4
[22:30] <danimo> mhb: how?
[22:31] <fdoving> by making kde4 of course :)
[22:31] <danimo> pfff
[22:31] <mhb> <personalopinion>if you released a KDE4 version we can all safely migrate to from KDE3, we would not have this problem in the first place. </personalopinion>
[22:32] <ScottK> So much for the 'no upstream support so we can't have Kubuntu LTS:: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/01/talking-bluntly.html
[22:33] <mhb> with /opt, it's easier to have KDE3 and KDE4 coexistent, but it will lead to unnecessary bugs when we migrate to KDE4 only
[22:33] <danimo> mhb: that's nonsense. a) this has never been the case with any major release, b) there are a lot of users that will want KDE x-1 for at least 2-3 years after KDE x.0 has been released
[22:33] <mhb> with /usr + renames, we'll get some bugs in the beginning, but it'll be a tad easier to switch to KDE4 only.
[22:34] <yuriy> so first thing for hardy+1 the names would have to be switched?
[22:34] <mhb> danimo: if it didn't make sense, then most users would not talk about it, would they?
[22:34] <mhb> it seems that so many of them are disappointed by that decision, the criticism has to make *some* sense.
[22:34] <danimo> mhb: I said the idea of a smooth migration for distros is unrealistic, due to different users wanting different things
[22:34] <fdoving> ScottK: yeah, the enterprise hardcore guys are always using older software. that is true for close to everything. so they will stick to 3.5, and kdab and others will continue to support it.
[22:34] <danimo> mhb: and that is exactly my point
[22:34] <Lure> danimo: at the end, users care about correct .desktop files ;-)
[22:35] <danimo> Lure: true
[22:35] <ScottK> fdoving: Agreed.  That part of the argument never made much sense to mel
[22:35] <ScottK> mel/me
[22:35] <Lure> Riddell: is /usr/lib/kde4 shared with debian packages, or is this our delta?
[22:36] <mhb> danimo: okay. I still think the less root directories, the better.
[22:36] <Riddell> Lure: it's our change, their packages conflict
[22:36] <Riddell> or are just newer versions rather
[22:36] <fdoving> ScottK: to me neither.
[22:36] <Lure> ScottK: aaron explained it even better in interview
[22:37] <Riddell> ggg
[22:37] <nixternal> hhh
[22:37] <Lure> Riddell: then /opt might make more sense if we plan to get rid of that delta in hardy+1
[22:38] <Lure> Riddell: I would expect we would not allow coexistance in hardy+1, right? (being same as debian)
[22:41] <mhb> but I agree, we can't please everyone
[22:42] <fdoving> wouldn't it be a regression to -remove- the coexistance when it's already there?
[22:42] <mhb> because we would have to build KDE4 on *every* release that is currently supported
[22:42] <mhb> too bad we don't do it, or more precisely, too bad we don't have the machinery to do it for us
[22:43] <danimo> what does debian do?
[22:43] <fdoving> search & replace.
[22:44] <danimo> fdoving: so no coexistance possible?
[22:44] <fdoving> not that i'm aware of.
[22:44] <fdoving> i'm not completely up2date though.
[22:48] <Lure> danimo: [23:36] <Riddell> Lure: it's our change, their packages conflict
[22:49] <Lure> danimo: [23:36] <Riddell> or are just newer versions rather
[22:49] <Lure> so lib versioning + conflicting binaries
[22:51] <\sh> hey danimo long time no see...happy new year :)
[22:53] <danimo> heya \sh!
[22:53] <danimo> \sh: happy new year dude
[22:53] <Riddell> ythk
[22:54] <danimo> ?
[22:55] <Riddell> umm, cats
[22:56] <Riddell> Lure: /opt wouldn't make any difference from a techinical view
[22:58] <danimo> Riddell: sounds like bikeshed, I know, but I don't see why it's more compliant than /opt
[23:00] <blizzzek> bye
[23:00] <mhb> danimo: how can you run both konqueror-kde3 and konqueror-kde4 via opt?
[23:00] <mhb> danimo: if you don't give the full path
[23:01] <\sh> danimo: /opt was introduced by sun...and /usr should hold any specific files needed for the OS to boot up (talking BSDish) .. but on linux /usr/[!local] is now the trashcan for everything for the specific distro...
[23:02] <\sh> mhb: export KDEPATH=/opt/kde3 or export KDEPATH=/opt/kde4, prepending the users PATH with $KDEPATH/bin: during starup of the kdm session et voila
[23:02] <fdoving> mhb: my guess is; exactly like everywhere else where those need to co-exist, either make the commands differ, or change the environment when running one of the two versions. i use a 'start3app' bash-function when starting kde3 apps from within my kde4 session, for example.
[23:03] <danimo> \sh: doesn't mean it isn't a good idea
[23:03] <danimo> the /usr/ for everything is something that does not really appeal to me
[23:04] <danimo> I still live it times where even X11 had its own directory
[23:04] <danimo> :)
[23:04] <danimo> and I somehow miss that
[23:04] <fdoving>  /opt/ is easier to write than /usr/lib/ :) / gets messier though.
[23:04] <danimo> maybe bsd is even more consequent then
[23:04] <mhb> \sh: it's not really my point
[23:04] <\sh> danimo: well, you know, old farts are smelling ;)
[23:04] <mhb> \sh: how can you run konqueror4 within a KDE3 session then or vice versa?
[23:04]  * \sh smells
[23:04] <mhb> moving it to /opt won't solve it.
[23:05] <\sh> mhb: you shouldn't ... kde3 is something totally different then kde4...
[23:05] <mhb> what?
[23:05] <mhb> you shouldn't run KDE3 apps in a KDE4 environment?
[23:05] <danimo> \sh: seems by balding head isn't the only sign of me getting older
[23:05] <fdoving> mhb: doesn't matter if it's /opt /usr/lib /root /home/bah or anywhere. you need to do the same things to make it work either way.
[23:05] <mhb> umm
[23:05] <danimo>  mhb: sure you can
[23:05] <mhb> fdoving: right, you have to rename them in the end
[23:05] <danimo> mhb: even with the opt solution
[23:05] <fdoving> mhb: or change the environment.
[23:06] <mhb> danimo: I still don't see how moving to /opt would prevent the renaming of the apps
[23:06] <fdoving> mhb: changing the environment makes sense anyway, to not mess up configs.
[23:06] <danimo> mhb: it's all about the .desktop files:
[23:06] <danimo> kded and other central parts have a distinguished binary name
[23:06] <danimo> and  the apps can be called from the correct location  by means of desktop files
[23:07] <mhb> danimo: very un-unixy solution (you cannot launch them directly from the cmd line, for instance)
[23:07] <danimo> mhb: sure you can, just specify the full path
[23:07] <fdoving> mhb: i don't really thing the renaming is that a great idea. as running 'konqueror-kde4' from within a kde3 session would spawn kded4 and all it's depends with the wrong environment set, and ~/.kde would possibly be "upgraded" to kde4 versions of some configs. breaking kde3 apps confs.
[23:08] <danimo> mhb: unlinxey maybe
[23:08] <danimo> mhb: but IIRC that's how BSD does it
[23:08] <\sh> danimo: BSd has everything else under /usr/local...
[23:08] <danimo> mhb: every packages gets its own /usr/local
[23:08] <danimo> \sh: right, and if two contain the same and are both in path, you get the same problem
[23:08] <danimo>  \sh: and if they aren't likewise: you need to specify the full path
[23:09] <\sh> danimo: correct
[23:09]  * danimo notes he has no specific problems with that
[23:09] <fdoving> and if they break each others configs you need to change the environment for one of then either way.
[23:09] <danimo> ?
[23:10] <\sh> my thought: never distribute 2 desktop environments from the same developer...gnome + kde -> noone is bugging the other kde1 -> kde2 -> kde3 -> kde4 but will be buggy...I bet
[23:11] <\sh> s/\-\>/+/ for the kde{1-4} part
[23:11] <fdoving> running kde4 apps from within kde3 without setting a new  $KDEHOME will get interessting. i think.
[23:11] <\sh> I remember the times during the kde2 kde3 transition
[23:11] <fdoving> i bet konqueror4 will change the config in a way konqueror3 doesn't recognise.
[23:11] <\sh> what a mess
[23:13] <\sh> especially when the distro set ~/.kde -> ~/.kde2 and then after installing kde3 and starting kde3, all things from kde2 went wrong...but kde2 was still available and but not usable
[23:13] <fdoving> \sh: right, that's why the $KDEHOME will need to change for every kde3/4 app executed from the other environment.
[23:14] <\sh> fdoving: well, the problem wasn't the $KDEHOME...the problem was that KDE was compiled with default ~/.kde as users config home
[23:14] <fdoving> yeah, that is what $KDEHOME is now.
[23:15] <fdoving> $KDEHOME defaults to ~/.kde
[23:15] <\sh> fdoving: ok :)
[23:15] <\sh> fdoving: but this is a mess...
[23:15] <fdoving> the easiest solution would probably be to patch kde4 to look for $KDE4HOME before defaulting to $KDEHOME or something.
[23:17] <\sh> I would like the solution: let's push one CD with kde3.5.x and one CD with kde4...at least, kde4.0 is more a public technical roadshow..
[23:17] <fdoving> that is fine, but somehow one needs to be able to run kde3 apps from within kde4, atleast.
[23:18] <fdoving> i prepend a bashfunction when executing kde3 apps, to change the environment for those apps.
[23:19] <\sh> fdoving: for everything which doesn't have a kde4 equivalent, this wouldn't be a problem...the problem is: apps which are sitting on the system twice
[23:19] <\sh> like konqueror
[23:20] <mhb> I can't seem to be able to build kopete right now - it complain about qimageblitz.h even though it's in /usr/include/qimageblitz, any suggestions?
[23:20] <mhb> kopete from trunk
[23:20] <fdoving> \sh: like close to everything. when it comes to kde3->kde4
[23:21] <\sh> why can't we wait for kde4.1 and let's push kde4 to universe for interested developers...kde4 is not the right way...until kde4.1 is released...and I think kde upstream thinks the same
[23:22] <fdoving> kde 4.0 is nice.
[23:22] <Lure> and needs real users testing it so that 4.1 can rock
[23:23] <fdoving> having it in main with a conflict to the conflicting kde3 packages would be a better solution than yours.
[23:23] <fdoving> imo.
[23:23] <\sh> fdoving: but not for the masses...well, ok vista is also not for the masses...but if we would think this way...we are not a bit better then our friends of MS
[23:23] <mhb> we are not, that's true
[23:23] <Lure> \sh: we do not have masses ;-)
[23:23] <\sh> Lure: we have masses...even MS is testing our stuff :)
[23:24] <mhb> if we were, we'd have at least 50% of the world's computers running Kubuntu.
[23:24] <fdoving> \sh: the masses doesn't use everything in main anyway. having it installable and main supported doesn't mean the masses NEEDS to use it.
[23:24] <fdoving> if we also go for two isos. kde4 and kde3, it won't be a problem.
[23:24] <\sh> fdoving: having it in universe, we will have a brighter audience who are willing to contribute
[23:25] <fdoving> how?
[23:25] <Lure> more than I think, conflicting packages should not be that bad
[23:25] <Lure> even though I currently like to have both (using my kde3 install as fallback if kde4 braks)
[23:25] <Lure> breaks
[23:26] <Lure> fdoving: easier to contribute in universe than in main
[23:26] <fdoving> Lure: you can have both -installed- but then we must make some smart wrapper to executed "the not running versions"-applications.
[23:27] <fdoving> Lure: kubuntu members can push to the bzr controlled debian/ dirs of the packages.
[23:27] <fdoving> it's not like you need to be a core-dev to contribute to those.
[23:28] <Lure> fdoving: you are probably right that it is not that big difference
[23:28] <Lure> btw, is k3b in kde4 any good already?
[23:28] <fdoving> doesn't everyhting on the cds need to be in main?
[23:29] <fdoving> i'm not sure i've made it compile yet..
[23:29] <Lure> fdoving: it just built for me, will try it tommorow
[23:30] <danimo> \sh: your idea doesn't work out for a very simple reason: KDE PIM and KOffice are not out in a KDE 4 edition yet
[23:32] <fdoving> i guess a wrapper that looks at the current $KDEHOME, and sets it to the oposite, then execute the commands, would work.
[23:32] <fdoving>  /oposite/other/
[23:33] <\sh> danimo: that is what I was saying..kde4 is not ready for distributing as main components (ubuntu speak)...but in universe we have the possibility to catch many kde developers and they can push stuff into universe...
[23:33] <\sh> anyways...wife is at home now...ending this :)
[23:34] <\sh> good night folks :)
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
[23:35] <fdoving> nite sh.
[23:37] <Riddell> I have 4.0 extragear tars, anyone want to package?
[23:42]  * nixternal hides
[23:42] <nixternal> :p
[23:42] <nixternal> Riddell: are they in ktown?
[23:42] <Riddell> nixternal: yes
[23:42] <nixternal> I will grab extragear
[23:43]  * stdin finally gets home
[23:44] <Riddell> hi stdin, kde4libs seems to be working now
[23:44] <nixternal> jeesh, there isn't much from extragear is there, or is there still more to go?
[23:44] <stdin> Riddell: I just downloaded the new version ubuntu3~gutsy1~ppa2 was with the changes you put in ubuntu4 anyway
[23:44] <nixternal> nothing from multimedia in there
[23:45] <nixternal> then again, keg/multimedia didn't build for me earlier
[23:45] <Riddell> nixternal: that's just the apps that have decided to release along with KDE
[23:45] <stdin> oh and I changed the maintainer field to make hobbsee happy :p
[23:45] <Riddell> stdin: so long as it installs that's all good
[23:46] <Riddell> stdin: what did you change it to?
[23:46] <stdin> to my address (as kubuntu-members-kde4 doesn't have an email address)
[23:46] <nixternal> man, it is great seeing *-4.0.0.tar.bz2
[23:47] <nixternal> stdin: Maintainer: Kubuntu Developers <kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
[23:47] <nixternal> we have been given the go ahead to use that for our packages
[23:48] <nixternal> Riddell: application-kde4 <- correct naming right?
[23:48] <Riddell> nixternal: yes
[23:48] <stdin> bah-humbug, ok :)
[23:48] <nixternal> groovy
[23:48] <Riddell> nixternal: some of these are already in new so the packaging just needs updating
[23:48] <Riddell> nixternal: some have also been packaged by debian
[23:48] <nixternal> yup
[23:49] <nixternal> already in kde4/packages/*