2011/11/07/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

[00:01] <jbicha> ...but totem is in main and all of its dependencies and recommends need to be in main too
[00:02] <jbicha> totem's not going to be completely in sync with Debian but you can contribute there too
[00:09] <m4n1sh> jbicha: ah yes. That is a problem
[00:09] <m4n1sh> I forgot
[00:10] <m4n1sh> then we can never get those plugins :(
[00:10] <micahg> we could in theory merge totem from Debian unstable (haven't looked at the diff yet, but the versions match up)
[00:10] <m4n1sh> micahg: if one of the dependencies of a totem plugin is in universe
[00:10] <m4n1sh> then it means that plugin will never be packaged in ubuntu?
[00:12] <micahg> m4n1sh: well, Debian is still on 3.0.x as well
[00:12] <m4n1sh> but totem would see a 3.2 this cycle? right?
[00:12] <micahg> no
[00:12] <m4n1sh> that clutter thing was a 3.4 problem?
[00:13] <micahg> oh?  I thought it was 3.2 and that's why we stayed on 3.0 for oneiric
[00:13] <m4n1sh> not sure
[00:13] <m4n1sh> need to check
[00:13] <m4n1sh> and what about the universe dependency of plugin?
[00:14] <m4n1sh> when package are built, then are universe repo available?
[00:14] <micahg> m4n1sh: not for packages in main
[00:15] <m4n1sh> so means a plugin I worked on cant get accepted
[00:15] <m4n1sh> bummer
[00:15] <m4n1sh> I mean packaging update part
[00:15] <micahg> m4n1sh: what's the dependency?
[00:15] <m4n1sh> libepc-ui-dev
[00:15] <m4n1sh> available in universe
[00:16] <m4n1sh> libepc-ui-1.0-2
[00:17] <micahg> m4n1sh: do you want the plugin packages with totem or separately?
[00:17] <micahg> *packaged
[00:17] <m4n1sh> well totem source
[00:17] <m4n1sh> created many binary packages
[00:17] <m4n1sh> one of them is totem-plugins
[00:17] <micahg> is it shipped upstream?
[00:17] <m4n1sh> yes
[00:17] <m4n1sh> with totem source package
[00:17] <micahg> starting with what version?
[00:17] <m4n1sh> so since source package will be in main
[00:17] <m4n1sh> it has been always
[00:17] <m4n1sh> totem source package contains many plugins as part of codebase
[00:18] <m4n1sh> so totem-plugins is in main
[00:19] <micahg> looks like all the build deps for that library are in main, you could try to MIR if the Desktop team thinks it's useful enough to support
[00:19] <m4n1sh> I don't think it is that important
[00:20] <m4n1sh> it should bring some value to the default install
[00:20] <bjsnider> m4n1sh, the trouble with 3.2 is that it only works if your system is opengl-capable
[00:20] <m4n1sh> clutter?
[00:20] <bjsnider> yeah
[00:20] <bjsnider> it looks like they've overcome that problem, or are on the verge of it
[00:21] <bjsnider> with llvm
[00:21] <jbicha> m4n1sh: you can file a mir if you like and see what happens, I did that a few times last cycle
[00:21] <m4n1sh> jbicha: that package isn't that so important
[00:21] <m4n1sh> I was just trying out new plugins
[00:21] <m4n1sh> and thought it would be good to have them packaged
[00:22] <m4n1sh> there are no shortage of people crying aloud that ubuntu is destroying our community esp GNOME
[00:22] <m4n1sh> bjsnider: how with llvm?
[00:22] <m4n1sh> isnt llvm a compiler suite?
[00:23] <bjsnider> http://lwn.net/Articles/465728/
[00:23] <bjsnider> that should, it seems to me, make all the difference for totem as well
[00:23] <bjsnider> m4n1sh, they think linux achieved perfection with gnome 2
[00:24] <bjsnider> gnome 2 is the alpha and the omega, or something like that
[00:24] <thisfred> quick sanity check: is this likely something I did wrong or a hardware failure? Bug #886961
[00:24] <m4n1sh> I chuckled when I heard there was track at UDS named managing community bickering
[00:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 886961 in ubuntu "apt-get dist-upgrade hangs while generating grub.cfg" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886961
[00:26] <m4n1sh> bjsnider: looks like some complex methods
[00:26] <m4n1sh> http://www.mesa3d.org/llvmpipe.html
[00:26] <bjsnider> there are extensions for gnome-shell that bring back everything in gnome 2, so i don't know what all the bellyaching is about
[00:27] <m4n1sh> The Gallium llvmpipe driver is a software rasterizer that uses LLVM to do runtime code generation. Shaders, point/line/triangle rasterization and vertex processing are implemented with LLVM IR which is translated to x86 or x86-64 machine code
[00:27] <bjsnider> the menus, the bottom task panel, etc.
[00:27] <m4n1sh> and then why is GNOME2 being deprecated
[00:27] <m4n1sh> kind of cried
[00:27] <m4n1sh> *cries
[00:28] <m4n1sh> I don't understand the sense of entitlement
[00:31] <bjsnider> especially since it's a free product
=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away
[03:43] <desrt> any canonical employees?
[03:49] <lifeless> I so want to make a sarcastic comment
[03:49] <lifeless> the only thing stopping me is CLMobia
[03:49] <desrt> hit me =)
[03:49] <lifeless> :P
[04:24] <smspillaz> desrt: hi
[04:24] <desrt> smspillaz: hey
[04:24] <desrt> got the info i needed already, thanks
[04:24] <smspillaz> kk
[04:24]  * smspillaz goes back to studying
[04:24] <desrt> weird!
[04:24] <desrt> ;)
[04:35] <infinity> lifeless: Wait, you suddenly have a fear of CLMs?  Is this shiny and new?
[04:36] <lifeless> infinity: not really
[04:36] <lifeless> infinity: just the quotes page now reaches what, 500 people?
[04:37] <infinity> lifeless: But it's always reached those who could fire you.  Nothing's changed. ;)
[04:37] <lifeless> infinity: TBH the ones that were percolating up are ones I wouldn't ever have used.
[04:37] <lifeless> infinity: consider elmo's demo to Jane of screensavers.
[05:11] <pitti> Good morning
[08:18] <huats> morning
[08:26] <pitti> hey huats, how are you?
[08:30] <huats> fine pitti ! thanks !
[08:30] <huats>  what about you ? you had a nice trip back ?
[08:32] <pitti> huats: well, as nice as a short night on an economy class seat can be :)
[08:32] <pitti> I managed to sleep a bit, yes
[08:33] <pitti> and actually waked up at 6 today, so not too bad :)
[08:33] <huats> :)
[08:33] <huats> I woke up at 6 too :)
[08:35] <pitti> I'm officially on holiday today, so I cranked up my inkscape skills from about 0 to 0.05 :) http://www.piware.de/2011/11/12-04-testing-ftw/
[09:11] <didrocks> good morning
[09:21] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, ca va?
[09:21] <didrocks> pitti: guten Morgen! still a little bit asleep, but I'm fine, you?
[09:22] <pitti> didrocks: woke up at 6 again; didn't sleep too much, but that should be ok
[09:22] <pitti> I can take a nap this afternoon if I want, I'm officially on a swap day today ;)
[09:22] <didrocks> heh, indeed :)
[09:23] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:24] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you? how was your flight back?
[09:25] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[09:25] <pitti> chrisccoulson: pretty quiet, I could sleep a bit
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
[09:25] <pitti> and all on time, so that went well
[09:25] <pitti> chrisccoulson: how was your's?
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> pitti - heh, i tried to sleep a bit on my flight, but failed
[09:25] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm rather fine, despite a quite not optimal at all return :) yourself?
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> so i ended up falling asleep on sunday afternoon
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, what happened with your return?
[09:26] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: first fight was delayed by 30 minutes, I ran with jibel at JFK to change terminal
[09:26] <didrocks> there were calling us for final call for boarding
[09:27] <chrisccoulson> oh, that sucks :(
[09:27] <didrocks> the security, having a huge crowd, didn't want to listen to us
[09:27] <didrocks> so, we arrived when they closed the door
[09:27] <didrocks> and the security didn't tell them we were queuing
[09:27] <pitti> didrocks: did they still let you in?
[09:28] <didrocks> then, we were set in the next flight, in another terminal (just next to our arrival in fact)
[09:28] <pitti> ah, argh
[09:28] <didrocks> pitti: no, too late apparently, they didn't want to reopen the door :/
[09:28] <didrocks> apparently, they screwed my reschedule as well as I had to spent 30 minutes in Paris to have another flight to Lyon
[09:28] <didrocks> and nobody knew where my luggage was
[09:29] <didrocks> so I arrived in Lyon with it (but just 2 hours late, which isn't that bad)
[09:29] <didrocks> and I got my luggage by taxi yesterday evening
[09:29] <didrocks> so not that bad, but still, all that would have been avoided if JFK security was more flexible
[09:29] <didrocks> (especially when we are 5 in this case)
[09:42] <glatzor> morning pitti, you want to get rid of check_language_support?
[09:42] <pitti> glatzor: no, of language-selector
[09:43] <pitti> glatzor: and rewrite check_language_support to either be an aptdaemon plugin, or a separate script and call it from aptdaemon
[09:43] <glatzor> pitti, I have already worked on this.
[09:43] <pitti> ooh
[09:44] <glatzor> pitti, it's 5 loc :) plus setuptools integration
[09:46] <pitti> glatzor: i. e. you integrated check_language_support, or you put the code to evaluate /usr/share/language-selector/data/pkg_depends into 5 LOCs?
[09:51] <glatzor> pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/730838/
[09:53] <glatzor> pitti, but it could make sense to integrate this deeper into aptdaemon for performance reasons
[09:53] <pitti> glatzor: yes, the current implementation in c-l-s is rather expensive
[09:54] <pitti> it reinitializes apt caches again, etc.
[09:54] <pitti> glatzor: but for the time being this is nice, it'll fix bug 396414 when it is run on every install
[09:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 396414 in synaptic "When KDE or gnome apps get installed, the corresponding language-packs should be pulled automatically" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396414
[09:54] <glatzor> pitti, I am currently failing to move language-selector to setuptools
[09:55] <pitti> glatzor: don't bother; as I said, I'd like to throw it away entirely (or leave it for the KDE guys)
[09:55] <pitti> glatzor: I'd like to look into an efficient, small, and simple reimplementation of the check_language_support
[09:56] <pitti> in python or shell, whatever is more appropriate
[09:56] <pitti> and we either call that from aptdaemon, or what might be preferable, integrate the logic into aptdaemon and then make a check_language_support script which just calls thaht method from aptdaemon
[10:02] <glatzor> pitti, by the way, do you think we will get dbus server support for python in this cycle?
[10:02] <pitti> glatzor: I looked into this another 8 hours or so, but gave up then; it requires major reorg of the pygobject sources :(
[10:02] <pitti> or a clever fix which I'm not skilled enough to come up with
[10:03] <pitti> glatzor: I'll re-discuss it with J5, but I wouldn't bet on it this cycle
[10:03] <pitti> (it's still high on the list of things I'd like to see)
[10:06] <mvo> hey glatzor! nice to see you. s-c trunk should be mostly ready for consumption in debian now
[10:06] <pitti> hey mvo
[10:07] <mvo> glatzor: the only missing bit is that something needs to provide package-{install,upgrade,remove}.png icons, we do it in the humanity icon theme
[10:08] <didrocks> good morning mvo!
[10:08] <mvo> hey didrocks, good morning!
[10:09] <glatzor> mvo, thanks!
=== charles is now known as Guest24123
[11:39] <pitti> rickspencer3: hey Rick, how are you?
[11:40] <rickspencer3> hi pitti
[11:40] <rickspencer3> I am well, but the jet lag is baaaad this week
[11:40] <rickspencer3> I shall log off soon, and spend the day with my wife, I think
[11:40] <rickspencer3> pitti,  how are you?
[11:40] <pitti> rickspencer3: reasonably well, woke up at 6
[11:40] <rickspencer3> pitti, nice
[11:40] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'm on a swap day as well, but playing around a little
[11:41] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3!
[11:41] <rickspencer3> pitti, :)
[11:41] <pitti> rickspencer3: how do you like the 12.04 motto card? http://www.piware.de/2011/11/12-04-testing-ftw/
[11:41] <rickspencer3> hi didrocks
[11:41]  * rickspencer3 looks
[11:41] <rickspencer3> didrocks, tu as eu une bonne voyage apres NY?
[11:42] <didrocks> rickspencer3: on a raté notre avion avec jibel à cause de la sécurité de JFK. Donc on a pris le suivant
[11:42] <didrocks> rickspencer3: ils ont ensuite perdu ma valise, mais je l'ai eu par taxi hier soir, donc tout va bien :)
[11:42] <didrocks> rickspencer3: et toi?
[11:44] <rickspencer3> didrocks, j'ai ne fu pas mon connexion in NY parce que notre avion a ete en retard
[11:44] <rickspencer3> enfin, je prix un bon avion en Amsterdam, pas probleme
[11:45] <didrocks> rickspencer3: tu avais un autre vol pas trop tard?
[11:45] <rickspencer3> j'ai prix KLM
[11:46] <rickspencer3> didrocks, oui, Delta a me donne une voyage en KLM
[11:46] <didrocks> ça va donc :-)
[11:46] <rickspencer3> don, j'ai arrive en Amsterdam une huer en retard saulement
[11:47]  * rickspencer3 wipes sweat from brow
[11:47] <rickspencer3> pitti, nice!
[11:47] <rickspencer3> "Failure is not an Option" ;)
[11:48] <didrocks> rickspencer3: nous, on était arrivé dans le terminal 3, puis le vol air france au terminal 1, mais comme on l'a loupé, on a pris un vol delta au… terminal 3 (juste à côté de là où on était arrivé :/). Donc on a eu 2 fois la securité pour rien :)
[11:48] <rickspencer3> pitti, nice reference to NASA
[11:48]  * rickspencer3 open google.translate
[11:48] <rickspencer3> j/k
[11:48] <pitti> rickspencer3: I got this card from the space center: http://piware.de/fotos/Apollo%2013%20-%20Failure%20is%20not%20an%20option.jpg
[11:49] <pitti> rickspencer3: something like "from testing comes quality"
[11:49] <rickspencer3> excellent pitti :)
[11:50] <didrocks> pitti: last year, we bought the Tee Shirt for njpatel just after the "unity by default" annoucement :)
[11:51]  * pitti discovers kvm's --virtfs magic, sweet
[11:51] <pitti> so we have that, autopkgtest, and now a package which is in dep-8 (upower), we just need to connect the dots now
[11:52] <pitti> jibel: bonjour, ca va?
[11:52] <pitti> jibel: had a safe trip home?
[11:53] <rickspencer3> hey guys, I'm going to go into lurk/log off mode
[11:53] <rickspencer3> ttyl
[11:53]  * pitti -> diablo II
[11:54] <didrocks> see you rickspencer3 and enjoy diablo II pitti :)
[11:54]  * didrocks continues writing tarmac <-> jenkins plugin for unity
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
[12:07]  * Sweetshark let go a muffled moarn about ubuflu and jetlag.
=== dpm is now known as dpm-lunch
[12:49] <jibel> Hey pitti , mir geht es gut.
[12:49] <jibel> pitti, didrock and I missed our connection by 5 minutes in JFK thanks to an overzealous security agent.
[12:49] <jibel> I'll remember to avoid connecting flights in JFK with less than a 3 hours layover.
[12:50] <jibel> But that's minor annoyance and reached home finally :)
[12:53] <Sweetshark> jibel: I almost had that in newark on the flight to Orlando -- but without an overzealous security agent. continental just had that connection that tight that I appeared at the gate 30 sec before closing. Any overzeal by the personal would have made me miss it.
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
[12:58] <didrocks> jibel: hey!
[12:58] <didrocks> jibel: so they lost my luggage, but then, were quite active and I received it by taxi yesterday evening
[12:58] <jibel> Salut didrocks
[13:00] <jibel> didrocks, Cool. It's better to wait for your luggage on your way back home than the other way.
[13:00] <didrocks> jibel: indeed, I wasn't too worry because of that :)
[13:00] <didrocks> jibel: did you catch your train?
[13:03] <jibel> didrocks, yep, I got it.
[13:04] <pitti> jibel: FYI, I converted the first package to dep-8 today, and tried autopkgtest
[13:05] <pitti> jibel: it works well enough in "run in current system" mode
[13:05] <pitti> jibel: now I'm wondering if you already have existing machinery to set up VMs, snapshot them, install packages, run something, and tear them down
[13:05] <pitti> jibel: or whether it's worth writing a kvm runner for autopkgtest
[13:06] <pitti> jibel: I tried the chroot runner, but that's not enough as we want to start e. g. dbus for the tests, and it also needs root
[13:06] <pitti> jibel: so I discovered kvm's --virtfs, and that's a nice way to shovel data into the VM (to control what autopktgtest runs, and copy back the logs)
[13:07] <jibel> pitti, thanks, that's upower, right ?
[13:08] <jibel> pitti, I'll finish the setup of upgrade testing in the QA Lab today and will try autopkgtest right after.
[13:10] <pitti> jibel: we can walk through this together
[13:10] <pitti> jibel: right, upower
[13:11] <pitti> jibel: if you don't already have similar machinery, I'm actually interested in writing that kvm backend, but before I'd like to get a closer understanding what we need exactly
[13:11] <pitti> jibel: I'm off for lunch now anyway, but maybe we can mumble about this later
[13:12] <jibel> pitti, sure, we use something similar for kernel. I'll see if we can reuse it for packages.
[13:12] <jbicha> good morning
[13:12] <jibel> pitti, bon appetit
[13:24] <Q-FUNK> pretty weird Bug #886833  in Lucid. where would I start to investigate this?
[13:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 886833 in gdm "gdm-greeter unusable because filled with pixel garbage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886833
[13:41] <mterry> Huh, when did apps.ubuntu.com go live?  I missed that.  It's neat
[13:56] <Laney> some time when natty was current, judging by the default :-)
[13:57] <mterry> Laney, :)
=== dpm-lunch is now known as dpm
=== eeejay_is_afk is now known as eeejay
[16:26] <jbicha> ricotz: I think we should remove glib 2.31 from the gnome3 oneiric ppa as I don't think we should bother patching gnome 3.2 stuff for the new glib
[16:27] <jbicha> or at least we should do that in precise, not oneiric
[16:47] <ricotz> jbicha, agreed, i think seb128 requested it for testing
[16:50] <seb128> ricotz, jbicha: you can drop it, we wanted it somewhere for testing but that didn't need to be the same ppa than gnome3
[17:01] <jbicha> ok, done, it's still in the precise part of the gnome3 ppa
[17:02] <didrocks> seb128: salut seb128, bien rentré?
[17:09] <seb128> didrocks, lut, nickel, et toi?
[17:10] <didrocks> seb128: quelques surprises (connexion manquée à jfk à cause de la sécurité et aller-retour entre terminaux) + perte de baggage, mais tout est rentré dans l'ordre le dimanche soir!
[17:10] <seb128> oh
[17:11] <seb128> so you didn't master jfk connections enough :-(
[17:11] <seb128> when did you arrive ?
[17:12] <didrocks> I arrived 2 hours late fortunatly, so back home at 12h
[17:13] <didrocks> well, we could have mastered the jfk connexion if the security didn't tell jibel and I to wait in line
[17:13] <didrocks> (even when it was the final call with our name)
[17:13] <didrocks> so we missed it by 2 minutes…
[17:13] <didrocks> and were redirectered to a delta flight at the terminal we arrived…
[17:18] <seb128> didrocks, ok, no luck there, there is a reason I never connect in the U.S ;-)
[17:18] <chrisccoulson> me too ;)
[17:19] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you? had a good trip back?
[17:19] <chrisccoulson> seb128, it was uneventful. how about you?
[17:20] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I was surprised to not see you at the airport btw ;-)
[17:20] <chrisccoulson> heh
[17:20] <seb128> chrisccoulson, nothing worth mentioning, the plane didn't have by-seat-screens but I slept most of the flight so that was ok
[17:21] <didrocks> seb128: well, back to europe, it should be easier, but not luck this time, yeah. I'll avoid connecting to JFK after those 2 bad surprises though
[17:21] <seb128> didrocks, well you got lucky in your unluck, 2 hours delay is ok for a missed flight
[17:22] <didrocks> and lost luggage which I got in the evening by taxi
[17:22] <didrocks> so yeah, not a lot to complain :)
[17:25] <seb128> didrocks, well at least you didn't loose your password like mhr3
[17:25] <seb128> he put it with his tickets on a tray at the security check and never got it back on the other side
[17:25] <seb128> it got stucked somewhere or picked by somebody by mistake or something
=== eeejay is now known as eeejay_is_afk
[17:29] <jbicha> passport?
[17:30] <didrocks> urgh?
[17:31] <seb128> ups
[17:31] <seb128> yes, passport
[17:31] <didrocks> that sucks…
[17:31] <seb128> lol, I'm used to type password :p
[17:31] <didrocks> I'll keep it on me from now on then and don't put it on a tray
[17:31] <seb128> didrocks, yeah, he never got it back
[17:31] <seb128> that was after security check though and he had his national id so he managed to get in the plane
[17:32] <Q-FUNK> ouch
[17:32] <didrocks> fortunatly, but still, experiencing that at the security check… that's weird
[17:33] <seb128> dunno what happened, there was some chaos there, a guy was making the portal thing bip and they made him go several times through, quite some people queued and the trays line kept going on some quite some trays pilled up
[17:33] <seb128> well at the end his password and ticket got lost somewhat
[17:33] <seb128> no fun
[17:33] <didrocks> ah, can be only a mistake then
[17:34] <didrocks> yeah, no fun :/
[17:34] <Q-FUNK> Heathrow?
[17:34] <seb128> no, Orlando
[17:34] <Q-FUNK> ah
[17:34] <Q-FUNK> I keep on reading horror stories of people losing their keys, overpriced watch or passport while it's sitting in the tray at Heathrow.
[17:35] <Q-FUNK> how was UDS Disney?
[17:38] <seb128> Q-FUNK, quite good
[17:39] <seb128> well I can see watches being stolen but not sure what happened to the passport
[17:39] <didrocks> if the plane tickets have been taken as well, seems to be more an error
=== eeejay_is_afk is now known as eeejay
[17:40] <seb128> yeah
[17:40] <seb128> or the trays stacking pushed it somewhere in the tray line or something
[17:40] <didrocks> yeah, possible
[17:42] <Q-FUNK> they shouldn't allow trays to stack up or people to lose sight of their own tray.
[17:43] <Q-FUNK> getting back to dev issues, any idea what could cause Bug #886833  in Lucid? where would I start to investigate this?
[17:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 886833 in gdm "gdm-greeter unusable because filled with pixel garbage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886833
[17:46] <Q-FUNK> it doesn't affect gnome sessions if I logon via LDM with a thin client, so I'm puzzled as to what would cause it.
[17:46] <seb128> not really, lucid don't change a lot nowadays ... could you check what packages get updates for you?
[17:46] <Q-FUNK> what fetches them, you mean?
[17:47] <Q-FUNK> unattended-updates, IIRC
[17:47] <seb128> get updated
[17:47] <seb128> did that happen after an upgrade?
[17:47] <Q-FUNK> yup.  it worked fine until this summer.
[17:47] <Q-FUNK> that's about the last time I logged onto that host locally via GDM
[17:51] <Q-FUNK> I normally logon by remote via LDM with a thin client for desktop sessions and let unattended-upgrades fetch and install from -updates and -security.
[17:52] <Q-FUNK> I have tried purging gdm and reinstalling, but that doesn't solve it.
[17:53] <Q-FUNK> since it's my LTSP server, this one only gets updated from LTS to LTS+1.
[18:00] <seb128> ok, not sure, that seems like an xorg or gtk issue...
[18:00] <seb128> hum
[18:00] <seb128> great, the banshee guys troll over blog posts about the UDS discussion and users spammed the etherpad
[18:02] <didrocks> ok, on this positive note, I think it's time for me to take some rest to be 100% effective tomorrow :)
[18:02] <didrocks> see you guys!
[18:03] <Q-FUNK> that host uses nouveau, as its X driver
[18:06] <seb128> Laney, hey
[18:07] <seb128> Laney, so about banshee, seems online discussions are parts based on non-fact but on after session etherpad spamming
[18:08] <seb128> Laney, the session format is probably suboptimal but we didn't have a strict agenda, we mainly discussed what was brought up during the session
[18:08] <seb128> i.e I had no clue we would discuss the music player there
[18:14] <davidcalle> seb128, I think a lot of the misunderstanding comes from the fact that the notes said at some point "Banshee is not well maintained". The truth being "we have no one maintaining Banshee on the Canonical side", it's unfortunate that it worded noted the way it was said during the session :/
[18:14] <davidcalle> that is wasn't worded*
[18:14] <popey> seb128: fyi if you want to slide backwards in time to get a copy of the pad before vandalism.. http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uds-p-desktop-p-default-apps/latest
[18:14] <seb128> popey, thanks
[18:15] <seb128> davidcalle, the wording is maybe inappropriate but consensus around people there is that the oneiric version is quite buggy
[18:15] <davidcalle> seb128, I agree, I was in the session.
[18:15] <seb128> that was not the main driver behind the change though
[18:16] <popey> seb128: version 1939 seems to be around the end of the discussion
[18:17] <seb128> popey, it's probably before that, or the etherpad got spammed during the session
[18:17] <seb128> like all the "port to vala" comments have nothing to do with what we discussed there
[18:18] <seb128> the 10) % thing is weird, dunno where that's coming from
[18:18] <popey> ah yes, nearer 1538
[18:19] <seb128> yeah, that's closer I think
[18:19] <seb128> a bit before that maybe
[18:19] <seb128> dobey, hey
[18:19] <seb128> dobey, did you try to alt-right-click to get the "add to panel"?
[18:27] <Q-FUNK> seb128: confirmed. it's a nouveau issue. purposely purging -nouveau and letting X use -nv fixed it.
[18:27] <seb128> ok, great
[18:35] <Q-FUNK> turns out that nouveau tries to find its DRI files somewhere unexpected, as reported by X log
[19:15] <micahg> jbicha or ricotz could you join #ubuntu-meeting to discuss the desktop-extra packageset?
[19:16] <micahg> or anyone who can help us define vanilla GNOME :)
[19:54] <Laney> seb128: I think there are some lessons that could be learned and it would be nice for something positive to come out of this
[19:54] <seb128> Laney, indeed
[19:55] <seb128> Laney, note that the decision is not totally made yet which is why there was no communication about it
[19:55] <seb128> jasoncwarner_ needs at least to check with u1 and stakeholders if there would be any issue changing
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
=== allison_ is now known as wendar
[20:29] <jbicha> seb128: pitti did announce at the final plenary that banshee & mono were being removed from the CD
[20:29] <seb128> jbicha, that's what we are aiming for right
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
[21:00] <TheMuso> seb128: Good evening. Suffering from jetlag?
[21:01] <seb128> hey TheMuso, jetlag is ok, I managed to stay up until a reasonable time and had a good night yesterday
[21:01] <seb128> what about you? had a good flight back?
=== eeejay is now known as eeejay_is_afk
[21:03] <TheMuso> Yes, flight was uneventful thanks. Didn't feel like doing much yesterday when I got back, but went to bed early, and got up about half an hour ago, and am feeling much better, thanks.
[21:22] <kirkland> is there a way to configure the unity launcher thing to only pop up when the mouse goes to the top left corner?
[21:26] <kirkland> ah, found it
[21:33] <maxb> kirkland: really, where?
[21:35] <kirkland> maxb: ccsm, search unity, top option
=== davidcalle_ is now known as davidcalle
=== eeejay_is_afk is now known as eeejay
[22:12] <Gremuchnik> Hi.  Does anybody here have regrets about Ubuntu choosing Unity and the subsequent deluge of defections from Ubuntu to Mint, Xubuntu, Debian and other distros?
=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away
[22:26] <JanC> Gremuchnik: there is no "deluge of defections"
[22:27] <jbicha> Gremuchnik: that's quite off-topic but we don't have reliable numbers for how many users there are
[22:27] <Gremuchnik> Dunno if you guys noticed already, but Linux Mint passed Ubuntu on Distrowatch in the last 7 days, 30 days, 3 months and even 6 months.  That does not even include figures for Xubuntu and others.
[22:27] <JanC> the only thing to regret is that a significant number of power users have switched, and we lose people who can help lesser experienced users that way
[22:27] <jbicha> distrowatch doesn't mean much
[22:27] <Gremuchnik> if its off topic, sorry.
[22:28] <JanC> distrowatch visitors are probably 1% of all Ubuntu users  ;)
[22:28] <JanC> or less
[22:28] <bjsnider> mint is an ubuntu variant
[22:29] <Gremuchnik> bjsnider, yes, but one which has specifically rejected Unity and which will heavily modify G3
[22:29] <jbicha> there's a lot more to Ubuntu than just Unity
[22:29] <Gremuchnik> http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851
[22:29] <Gremuchnik> jbicha, yes, but the "a lot more" now will have to go through Unity
[22:30] <bjsnider> distrowatch is probably being influenced by a bot
[22:30] <bjsnider> awhile back pclinuxos was the #1 distro for a period of time obviously because of a bot
[22:30] <JanC> bjsnider: it doesn't have t obe
[22:31] <bjsnider> 6 people actually use it
[22:31] <JanC> they count page visits
[22:31] <bjsnider> right, so somebody builds a bot that looks at pages
[22:31] <JanC> and I know for sure more than 6 people in Belgium alone used pclinuxos but now moved to mint  ;)
[22:32] <JanC> in any case, they count only a small subset of linux users
[22:32] <jbicha> http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=faq
[22:33] <JanC> 99% of linux desktop user don't visit that site, or at least very, very infrequently
[22:35] <Gremuchnik> well, I am sure that most GNU/Linux users do not visit DW, but I do think that its a not unrepresentative sample of a trend.  If you guys are all convinced that the imposition of Unity on the community did not create a negative backlash then I sure won't convince you otherwise.  Well, thanks for not being angry at me for raising the topic.  Cheers!
[22:35] <bjsnider> JanC, i'm just kidding. i used texstar's mandrake packages back in the day. i might have used pclos if not for ubuntu
[22:36] <bryceh> Gremuchnik, well, if you're right that users are switching at a high rate, then at least people can stop complaining that Canonical doesn't contribute anything to the larger ecosystem.  ;-)
[22:38] <Gremuchnik> bryceh, I am just personally sad to see what I consider the flagship of all GNU/Linux distros (Ubuntu) shooting itself in the leg after making the best desktop I had ever seen (pre-Unity GNOME).  I am grateful to all that Ubuntu has done in the past and I am saddened by this.
[22:39] <JanC> Gremuchnik: like I said, I am a bit concerned about the profile of the users that are moving away, but not about the number
[22:40] <Gremuchnik> good night guys, and kind regards to you all
[22:42] <bryceh> JanC, I agree; it's not really the size of your userbase that matters, it's how healthy the flow of ideas and other participation there is
[22:43] <bryceh> linuxmint and xubuntu and so on are all still ubuntu under the hood, so there's still plenty of room for participation and ideas to flow.
[22:44] <charlie-tca> +1
[22:44] <JanC> bryceh: size is important too, at least to attract commercial support (including hardware support etc.)
[22:47] <JanC> so you need both: lots of users who form a customer base for third parties & Canonical *and* a large enough number of experienced users who can advance/support ubuntu
[22:48] <JanC> and both groups need each other ☺