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bilibili_data_11962183_BV1Nc411D7eF_p31_BV1Nc411D7eF_p31_m4-dialogue_0010619
[S1] Yes, exactly. It will be very casual. We will just be a small group of friends gathering together at Washington Park. There will be around 20 of us, including children. [S2] Great. So you could have different types of cheese. How much would you like to spend? [S1] Not very much. Let's say $30.
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bilibili_data_11962183_BV1Nc411D7eF_p31_BV1Nc411D7eF_p31_m4-dialogue_0010620
[S1] I would suggest having at least one soft cheese and one hard cheese. That will offer you a good variety to suit different people's tastes. [S2] That sounds good. What's the difference between a soft cheese and a hard cheese? [S1] Well,
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bilibili_data_11962183_BV1Nc411D7eF_p31_BV1Nc411D7eF_p31_m4-dialogue_0010621
[S1] Yes. For hard cheese, I would recommend this Italian one here. It has a very strong smell and a dry flavor. You can cut it into thin slices and eat it on its own. It's $16. [S2] Okay, I'll take both. Thank you for your help. [S1] Questions eight to 11 are based on the conversation you have just heard. Question eight. What does the woman plan to do for the weekend?
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bilibili_data_11962183_BV1Nc411D7eF_p32_BV1Nc411D7eF_p32_m4-dialogue_0097811
[S1] Conversation two. [S2] Our school is replacing printed textbooks with e-textbooks next semester. I can't wait. [S1] Really? What about the cost? Not only buying all those tablets, but the software and electronic infrastructure that goes with it. Not to mention retraining all the teachers and administration staff.
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bilibili_data_11962183_BV1Nc411D7eF_p32_BV1Nc411D7eF_p32_m4-dialogue_0097812
[S1] Yes, but the software for electronic readers can be updated instantly without the need for buying a whole lot of new books. That's better for the environment. [S2] But the core curriculum doesn't change that much. Printed textbooks that are not brand new still contain the basic relevant information of core subjects. [S1] Well, I'm looking forward to the change. [S2] I'll stick with my printed books.
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[S1] Conversation one. [S2] I've made a new friend recently. Her name is Susan, and she's from South Africa. [S1] How did you meet her? [S2] We met over WeChat. She has very cool photos on her social media. The photos of her hometown look amazing. [S1] What's her hometown called?
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bilibili_data_11962183_BV1Nc411D7eF_p36_BV1Nc411D7eF_p36_m4-dialogue_0967900
[S1] I think they play football, but it's not as popular as rugby. [S2] Rugby? What's rugby? [S1] Rugby is a sport with two teams, and the players carry the ball in their arms and throw it at each other. The ball is not round, and the players push each other. I don't really understand the rules. I think it's very complicated.
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bilibili_data_11962183_BV1Nc411D7eF_p36_BV1Nc411D7eF_p36_m4-dialogue_0967901
[S1] That sounds like a very strange sport indeed. Is it only South Africa that plays it? [S2] No, it's also popular in Britain and in other former British colonies like Australia and New Zealand. [S1] Questions eight to 11 are based on the conversation you have just heard. Question eight. What does the woman say about her new friend, Susan?
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bilibili_data_11962183_BV1Nc411D7eF_p37_BV1Nc411D7eF_p37_m4-dialogue_0967902
[S1] ... Conversation two. [S2] Hi, Jennifer. I'm really struggling with this semester's workload. Do you have any advice? [S1] Have you considered making a study guide? It's a tool you can make yourself to take the stress out of studying. I've been using one since the start of last semester, and it has really helped relieve a lot of study pressure.
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bilibili_data_11962183_BV1Nc411D7eF_p37_BV1Nc411D7eF_p37_m4-dialogue_0967903
[S1] Yes. You'll probably start to grasp information a lot quicker that way. As an emotional learner, I organize my notes into a story that I can connect to and recite to myself. [S2] That's amazing. I didn't know there were so many different ways to learn. [S1] Questions 12 to 15 are based on the conversation you have just heard.
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[S1] Conversation one. [S2] What's that orange thing on your computer screen? [S1] It's something I bought yesterday. It's a plastic sheet that blocks blue light. I have one that I use to cover my phone screen too. [S2] What do you mean by blue light? [S1] Blue light includes natural light, but it also includes light that isn't natural. For example, from computers, phones, televisions, and other electronic devices.
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[S1] ... Conversation two. [S2] As a kid, did you know what job you wanted to do when you grew up? [S1] No, I didn't. And I got sick every time adults asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up.
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[S1] That's the kind of goal-setting I like to see in children, springing from their boundless imaginations. [S2] Yes, we grown-ups can be tedious and limiting in our need for reality. And we teach a very gloomy image of adulthood, that whatever our children's future holds, it must be seen within the context of a job. [S1] How utterly overwhelming and dull.
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[S1] I never want to leave. I want to live here with Oprah Winfrey. I feel like I was like a kind of exotic cloud of joy. No? [S2] Joy? [S1] Yeah. You're right. [S2] Joy? [S1] Yeah. [S2] Forget E17, forget middle-aged Harrison Ford with a goatee. Our famous faces have made it onto the wall. Is that Blutac?
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[S1] He's been here for a while collecting this clay. [S2] Hello. [S1] Hello. [S2] Hello. [S1] This is the Red River Clay. [S2] Right. [S1] And they, and, you know, it had this thing and the Hittites saw it and they taught the people how to make clay with this. [S2] When were they here? [S1] Uh, they were around 2000 BCE. [S2] That's how they made pottery.
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[S1] Thank you very much for doing this, man. I really appreciate it. I've been absorbing your information and listening to you talk for quite a while now, so it's great to actually meet you. [S2] Thanks for having me. [S1] My pleasure, my pleasure. You are one of the rare guys that is, you're a big investor, you're deep in the tech world, but yet you seem to have a very balanced perspective in terms of how to live life, as opposed to not just be
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[S1] Yeah, you know, I think the reason why people like, uh, hearing me is because, like, if, it's like if you go to a circus and you see a bear, right, that's kind of interesting, but not that much. If you see a unicycle, that's interesting, but you see a bear on a unicycle, that's really interesting, right? [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] So when you combine things you're not supposed to combine- [S2] Right. [S1] ... people get interested. It's like Bruce Lee, right? Striking thoughts, philosophy, plus martial arts. [S2] Mm. [S1] Uh, and, and I think it's because at some level,
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[S1] When you're young, you're just like going to school. Then you're going to war. Then you're running a business. Then you're supposed to serve in the Senate or the government. Then you become a philosopher. There's sort of this arc to life where you try your hand at everything. And, uh, as one of my friends says, uh, specialization is for insects, right? [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] So everyone should just be able to do everything. And so I don't believe in this model anymore of trying to focus your life down on one thing. You've got one life. Just do everything you're gonna do.
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[S1] People don't want to start over. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And it's the nature of later in life that you just don't have the time. So it's very painful to go back down and look for a new path, but that may be the best thing to do. And that's why when you look at the greatest artists, uh, and, and creators, they have this ability to start over that nobody else does. Like Elon will, you know, be called an idiot and start over doing something brand new that he supposedly is not qualified for. Or when Madonna or Paul Simon or U2 come out with a new album, their existing fans usually hate it because
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[S1] Because they've adopted a completely new style that they've learned somewhere else. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And a lot of times they'll just miss completely. So you have to be willing to be a fool and kind of have that beginner's mind and go back to the beginning to start over. And if you're not doing that, you're just getting older. [S2] Yeah, I mean, I don't even know if it's willing to be a fool. It's just, to me, that, the most exciting thing is to try to get better at something, to learn things. I mean, it's, it's really exciting when you just have incremental progress in something that you're completely new to.
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[S1] Yeah. [S2] It's a curiosity fulfilled. And it's what little children do too. You know, my, my little son is always asking why, why, why, why, why? And I always try and answer him and half the times I realize, actually, I don't really understand why. I just have a memorized answer for you, but that's not really understanding. [S1] Yeah, those are weird conversations, right? When you're, you're talking to your kids and you say, "Look, uh, the reality is I don't know a lot of things." [S2] Yeah, I've just memorized a lot of things. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And there's cer-
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[S1] You have answers for a few things that you've thought through. Then you sort of have cover ups, like- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... like trap doors, like, "Don't go here. This is just a cover up. I don't really know the answer to what the meaning of life is or how we got here." [S2] Right. Yes. [S1] And then you've got a whole bunch of memorized stuff because a lot of your, uh, a lot of intelligence these days is just the external brain pack of civilization. I know it's out there. I know the answers are out there. I know how to look them up, and I've memorized some of them. And I, like, I kinda understand how money works and the Federal Reserve prints it and what this government thing is, but not really.
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[S1] ... tough neighborhood. And so she would basically say, "When you get back from school, go straight to the library and don't come out, uh, until I pick you up late at night." So I used to basically live in the library and I read everything. I read every magazine, I read every pictograph, I read every book, I read every map. I just ran out of stuff to read. I just read everything. So I got over this idea of that reading a large number of books or reading a book to completion as a vanity metric. 'Cause really- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... when people are putting up photos on Twitter and Instagram of, look at my,
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[S1] Yeah, you brought up two awesome points. First of all, the, the social media aspect of, of books and basically anything. It's like, it's such a weird way to display your life 'cause it's- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... you know, you're displaying the, the best aspects of your life in some sort of a glass case. You know, just, it's an unrealistic version of your life that you cultivate and you curate. [S2] And I'm, I'm as guilty of that as anybody. [S1] Everybody's guilty of it. I'm guilty of it.
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[S1] Yeah. We're always signaling. [S2] Yes. [S1] Right? It's like rather than really looking at yourself, you're looking at how other people look at you. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] So it's like this one removed mental image. And it's kind of a disease. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Because social media is making celebrities of all of us, and celebrities are the most miserable people in the world. Right? Because they have this strong self-image that gets built up. It gets built up by compliments. Every time somebody pays you or me a compliment, and we're like, "Oh, well, thank you," right? Then that builds up an image of who we are. And then one idiot comes along, one out of ten, one out
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[S1] ... of 100, and they can easily tear it down. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Because it doesn't take many insults to cancel out a lot of compliments. And now you're carrying around this big, weighty self-image, and it's just very easy to be attacked. And because you're, you're famous or you're well-known, people wanna attack you. So, uh, being a celebrity is no good. It's actually a problem. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Like, I, one of my tweets is, and these are all reminders to myself, is you wanna be rich and anonymous, not poor and famous. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Right? [S2] There's benefits to it.
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[S1] Right, but that's not the kind of celebrity I think most people set out to get. [S2] Right. [S1] Especially most guys, right? [S2] Right, right, right. [S1] You want the cute females, you know? [S2] Yeah, you want chicks. [S1] Yeah. I look at my brief little YouTube clips. I have a tiny little podcast going now, and it's like 95% male. [S2] Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, this is very highly- [S1] 18 to 35, right? [S2] Yeah, what is the numbers? Yeah, it's in the 90s.
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[S1] Everybody wants to be happy and everybody wants to be fit. And I know there's a lot of virtue signaling that goes on, like we don't want money and, you know, I don't care about being happy and happiness is for stupid people. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] But let's face it, like, you want to be rich and happy and healthy. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Like that's the trifecta. Now, of course, you also want an internally calm state of mind, you want a loving household, so there are other things that come into it, but those three, I think they can actually be taught, right? And a fitness, I'm not gonna teach. There are a lot of people who you've had on here, including yourself, who know a heck of a lot more about fitness and health than
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[S1] pretty well off and I'm very happy. Uh, and I don't, and I worked at those. And so I've learned a few things. There are some principles. And so I try to lay them out, but in a timeless manner where you can kind of figure it out yourself. 'Cause at the end of the day, I can't really teach anything. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] I can only inspire you and maybe give you a few hooks so you can remember things when they happen or put a, put a name to them. So this podcast actually ended up explaining this tweet storm. So there was a tweet storm of like 36, 38 tweets, got very famous, got translated into dozens of languages.
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[S1] And these were principles that I came up with for myself when I was really young, around 13, 14. Uh, and I've been carrying them in my head for 30 years. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And I've been sort of living them. And over time, I just realized, like, sadly or fortunately, the thing that I got really good at was looking at businesses and figuring out the point of maximum leverage to actually create wealth and capture some of that. Uh, and do it in a very long-term kind of way. Not, not the, you know, banker- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... crash the economy- [S2] Right, right. [S1] ... get bailed out kind of way.
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[S1] Happiness is a big word, but, you know, happiness and inner peace and calm and all that. Because what you want is, you don't want to be the guy who succeeds in life while being high-strung, high-stress, and unhappy and leaving the trail of emotional wreckage with you and your loved ones. [S2] Which is more common than not. [S1] Yeah, because you gotta focus
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[S1] Mm, if you can be. You were- [S2] Why not? [S1] One of the things that you were saying is that you feel like happiness is something that you can learn, and then you can teach yourself to be happy, even just by adopting the mindset that you are a happy person, and proclaiming that to your friends. And so you've sort of developed a social contract. I'm a happy person. And then, well, I'll have to live up to that. [S2] [LAUGHS] Yeah, there, I've got hundreds of techniques, uh, but the- [S1] How did you develop that one?
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[S1] I, well, there's just a, there's social consistency, right? Humans have a need to be highly consistent with their past pronouncements. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] So the way I started my first tech company was I was in a, in, working inside a larger organization, and I told everybody that I was gonna go start a company. I was like, "I hate this place. I'm gonna do my own thing. I'm gonna be a successful entrepreneur." Six months passed, nine months passed, then people start, "You're still here?"
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[S1] I thought you were going to go start a company. [S2] Mm. [S1] Are you, are you lying? [S2] Right. [S1] That was the implication. So we kind of know this, right? Social contracts are very powerful. Like if you want to give up drinking, right, and you're not serious about it, you'll say, "I'm going to cut back. I'm going to have only one drink a night. I'm going to only drink on weekends." You tell yourself. But if you're serious, you'll announce it on Facebook. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] You'll tell all your friends. You'll tell your wife. You'll say, "I'm done drinking. I'm throwing everything out the house. You'll never see me drink again." When you say that, you know you're serious. So I think
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[S1] It's not a trade-off. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] I would argue that it, now, when I say happy, happy is one of those words that means a zillion different things. [S2] Right. [S1] It's like love, right? What does that mean? [S2] Right, I love cheese. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Yeah. [S1] I mean, define it a little bit more tightly, right? So, uh, let's go back to desire, right? This is old, old Buddhist wisdom. I'm not saying anything original, but desire, to me, is a contract that you make with yourself to be unhappy until you get what you want.
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[S1] Pick your one overwhelming desire, and it's okay to suffer over that one. But on all the others, you want to let them go so you can be calm and peaceful and relaxed. And then you'll perform a better job. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Most people, when you're unhappy, like a depressed person, it's not that they have a very clear, calm mind. They're too busy in their mind. Their sense of self is too strong. They're sitting indoors all the time, their mind's working, working, working. They're thinking too much. Well, if you want to be a high-performance athlete, how good of an athlete are you going to be if you're always having epileptic seizures?
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[S1] A clear mind leads to better judgment, leads to better outcome. So a happy, calm, peaceful person will make better decisions and have better outcomes. So if you want to operate at peak performance, you have to learn how to tame your mind, just like you have to learn how to tame your body. [S2] I love what you're saying. Um, Warren Buffett might not be the best example 'cause he drinks like, I think six Coca-Cola's a day and he eats mostly McDonald's. [S1] And he's still alive somehow. [S2] It's amazing. [S1] That shows you that low stress is more important. [S2] Yeah, but he looks like
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[S1] Yeah, but he looks like shit. Like, how old is he? I mean, he's, he's a fairly old man, right? [S2] Well, Charlie Munger is, I think, in his 90s, right? [S1] Yeah. [S2] He's made it really far. [S1] I wonder what Warren's doing. You know, I mean, it, it just, he's got to know that's bad for him, but he- [S2] It's terrible. [S1] ... he doesn't care. [S2] He doesn't care. I think he's just a little stressed. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Stress is the-
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[S1] Right. So he's just enjoys that Coca-Cola. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And that's pro- maybe there is a trade-off, right? Like maybe him enjoying that junk food and that Coke, just, "Ah." [S2] Yeah. [S1] That, that pleasing of the mind is maybe better than him just eating wheatgrass shots and- [S2] Yeah, and be miserable. [S1] ... kale salads and just being, uh, yeah, just super worked up about everything. [S2] It's like if you need your glass of red wine to de-stress and calm down, that's probably better than you flying off the rails. [S1] Right, right. And I
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[S1] I think that that's applicable not just in business, but in probably any pursuit. And I like what you're saying about allow that one thing to be your obsession. But everything else, just, you know, learn how to- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... learn how to let things go. Pick your-
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[S1] ... battles. [S2] And we like to think that we, we like to view the world as linear, which is, I'm going to put in eight hours of work, I'm going to get back eight hours of output, right? [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] Doesn't work that way. Guy running the corner grocery store is working just as hard or harder than you and me. How much output is he getting? What you do, who you do it with, how you do it, way more important than how hard you work, right? [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] Outputs are,
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[S1] non-linear based on the quality of the work that you put in. The right way to work is like a lion. You don't, you and I are not like cows. We're not meant to graze all day, right? We're meant to hunt like lions. We're closer to carnivores in our omnivorous development than we are to herbivores. Um, we- [S2] You tell vegans that. [S1] Yeah, sorry. [LAUGHS] Look, look, I wish all that stuff worked. I don't want to eat meat. This future generation will look back at us as worse than slavers, you know, because of the Holocaust we're committing with the animals. But they'll have artificial meats that taste and are healthier, is, uh, better
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[S1] ... the real thing. So- [S2] Allegedly. [S1] Allegedly. But so as a, as a modern knowledge worker athlete, as an intellectual athlete, you want to function like an athlete, which means you train hard, then you sprint, then you rest, then you reassessed, you get your feedback loop, then you train some more.
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[S1] Then you sprint again, then you rest, then you reassess. This idea that you're going to have linear output just by cranking every day at the same amount of time, that's, that's machines. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] You know? Machines should be working 9-5. Humans are not meant to work 9-5, are not meant to work 9-5. [S2] No, I agree wholeheartedly, but that's, it, it, for people that are working for someone, there's not really that option.
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[S1] So that's unfortunately the, the rub, right? That- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... that's kind of where my tweet storm starts, which is, first of all, the first thing, if you're gonna make money, is that you're not gonna get rich renting out your time.
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[S1] Even lawyers and doctors who are charging $3, $4, $500 an hour, they're not getting rich 'cause their lifestyle is slowly ramping up- [S2] Yes. [S1] ... along with their income, and they're not saving enough. Uh, they're, they just don't have that ability to retire. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] So the first thing you have to do is you have to own a piece of a business. You need to have equity, either as an owner, an investor, shareholder, uh, or a brand that you're building that accrues to you to gain your financial freedom.
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[S1] We communicated and cooperated within tribes, but each hunter, each gatherer stood on their own and then combined their resources with the family unit. But there was no boss hierarchy, hierarchy, hierarchy- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... where you're like the third middle manager down. Uh, in the farming age, we became a little bit more hierarchical as we had to run farms, but even those were still mostly family farms. It's industrial work with factories that sort of created this model of thousands of people working together on one thing and having bosses and schedules and time
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[S1] ... to show up. The reality is, if you have to go, I don't care how rich you are, I don't care whether you're like a top Wall Street banker, if you have to go, if somebody has to tell you, if somebody can tell you when to be at work and what to wear and how to behave, you're not a free person. [S2] Right. [S1] You're not actually rich. So we're in this model now where we think it's all about employment and jobs, and intrinsic in that is that I have to work for somebody else. But the information age is breaking that down.
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[S1] We are seeing an atomization of the firm. We're seeing the optimal size of the firm shrinking. It's most obvious in Silicon Valley. Tons and tons of startups constantly coming up and shaving off little pieces of businesses from large companies and turning them into huge markets. So what looked like the small little vacation rental market on Craigslist is now suddenly blown up into Airbnb. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] One example. [S2] That's a great example. [S1] But what I think we're going to see is
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[S1] ... of individuals setting out to do missions. And when those missions are done, we collect our money, we get rated, and then we rest and reassess until we're ready for the next sprint. [S2] Has there ever been a study done on happiness as it regards the size of companies? [S1] Not that I'm aware, but to me it's obvious. It's just obvious. The smaller the company, the happier you're gonna be. The more human your relations are, the less- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... you have rules to operate under, the more flexible, the more creative. The, the more you'd be treated like a human just 'cause you're able to do multiple things.
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[S1] Nowadays is universal basic income with the oncoming- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... apocalypse of automation. This is how it's being portrayed by Andrew Yang, who's running for president. I sat down and talked with him about it. He's very compelling, and he's a very smart guy, and he's an entrepreneur himself. And when he starts talking about automation and how it's going to just eliminate massive amounts of jobs and leave people stranded, what do you, do you, when, I know you're a guy who thinks about the future and- [S2] I'm going to take that- [S1] ... optimistic.
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[S1] I'm going to take the unpopular point of view on this. [S2] Okay. [S1] I don't, I think it's a non-solution to a non-problem. [S2] Mm. Ooh. [S1] Um, and I mean that in the sense that automation has been happening since the dawn of time. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Man, when electricity came along, that put a lot of people out of work. [S2] Did it? [S1] Right. A lot of people carrying buckets of water and, you know, lighting lamps and all those kinds of things. [S2] And this was the concern with factories as well, right? [S1] Yeah, absolutely. Everything. Literally every single thing that comes along. [S2] Even the printing press.
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[S1] ... you 10 years ago that podcasting was gonna be a job, or that, uh, you know, playing video games was gonna be a job, or commentating on video games- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... was gonna be a job, you would have laughed me out of the room. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Those are nonsense jobs, but yet, here we are. So society will always create new jobs. Civilization creates new jobs, but it's impossible to predict what those jobs are. So the question is, how quickly is that transition happening? Well, the reality is, even though everybody keeps talking about this automation apocalypse, we're at a record low unemployment.
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[S1] Where's the transition? [S2] Donald Trump. That's how- [S1] All I'm saying is it's, it's, it's, it's, I don't see it in the numbers. I don't see it actually happening. [S2] Right. [S1] The question is how quickly can you retrain people? So it's an education problem. The problem in the UBI, there's a couple of problems in the UBI. One is you're creating a straight, you're creating a slippery slide transfer straight into socialism. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Right? The moment people can start voting themselves money combined with the democracy- [S2] Right. [S1] ... it's just a matter of time before the bottom 51 votes themselves or everything's
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[S1] the top 49. [S2] Yes. [S1] And it just, it, it, and, and by the way, slip, slip, fallacy is not a fallacy. I know, I know people like saying that, but they haven't thought it through. Um, but the moment you start having a direct transfer mechanism like that in a democracy, you're basically doing it with capitalism, which is the engine of economic growth. You're also forcing the entrepreneurs out or telling them not to come here. Uh, the estimate I saw for 15K a year
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[S1] ... I have, you have to teach a man to fish, not to basically throw your rotting leftover carcasses at him and say, "Here, eat the scraps." [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] So it doesn't solve the meaning problem. And lastly, it's nonsense to hand 15K out to everybody. You want to means test people. There's no reason to give it to you and me. So you end up back towards the welfare system, where you do have to figure out who needs it and who doesn't. So I think the better route is that we actually establish a set of basic substance services that you have to have, and we provide those in abundance through
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[S1] Coding is thinking. It's automated structure thinking. An AI that can program as well or better than humans is an AI that just took over the world. That's end game. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] That's the end of the human species. Uh, and I can give you arguments why I don't think that's coming either. Um, people who are thin- and I know I take the opposite side from some very famous people in this debate, but we're nowhere near close to general AI. Not in our lifetimes. You don't have to worry about it. [S2] Even in our lifetimes.
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[S1] Really. [S2] It's so overblown. Uh, it's, it's another, it's a combination of Cassandra Complex. You know, it's fun to talk about the end of the world. [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] Um,
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[S1] combined with a God complex, like people who have lost religion, so they're looking for meaning in some kind of end of history. [S2] Right, right. [S1] Um, the reason why I don't think AI is coming anytime soon is because a lot of the advances in so-called AI today are what we call narrow AI. They're really pattern recognition, machine learning to figure out, like, what is that object on the screen, or how do you find this signal and all of that noise? There's nothing approaching what we call creative thinking. Uh,
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[S1] But it's not sexy to talk about that. [S2] If you, you're talking about mirroring the actual abilities of cells, or are you talking about recreating the actual mechanism? Like what, what, what is going on inside cells and, and biological organisms? [S1] Yeah, we just don't know how intelligence works. [S2] Right. We don't know what consciousness is. [S1] We literally have no idea. So most of the AI approaches basically say we're going to try and model
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[S1] How the brain works. But they model at the neuron level, which is saying this neuron's on, that neuron's off. [S2] Right. [S1] They're combining their signal. But I'm saying in, the neuron is a cell. Inside the cell, there's all this machinery going on that's operating the neuron that is also part of the intelligence apparatus. You can't just ignore that and abstract that out. You have to model it down to the in, inside the cell level.
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[S1] Well, in terms of an actual physical brain, yes. But what about something that recreates the abilities of a brain? [S2] Like I said, nature is parsimonious. So we've got this three-pound wetware object- [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] ... that can hold all this data. Nature has been very efficient in evolving kind of how we get there. I just don't think computers are anywhere close to that, like they can hold that amount of data with that complexity, with like the holographic structure of the brain where it can recall in many, many different ways. [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] And then,
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[S1] I don't think you can evolve a creature to be intelligent outside of the boundaries of, of feedback in a real medium. Like if you evolved, if you raised a human being in a concrete cell with no input from the outside, they wouldn't have any feedback from the real world. [S2] Right. [S1] They wouldn't evolve properly. So I think just dumping information into, into a thing isn't enough. It has to have an environment to operate in, to get feedback from. It needs to have context.
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[S1] Right? The- [S2] These are still man-made, very closed, bounded games. [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] They're, they're not, they're not on the road to the unbounded game of life. They are completely artificial. [S1] But this didn't go, didn't that give you like a little bit of a pause?
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[S1] A little bit. Go is not, Go or League of Legends or Fortnite, they're not completely deterministic. [S2] Right. [S1] But they're still very artificial, very bounded games. Being good at Go doesn't mean that you can then suddenly figure out how to write great poetry. [S2] Right. The creativity for sure is something that's very- [S1] The creativity.
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[S1] So creativity is the last frontier. So I do believe that automation over a long enough period of time will replace every non-creative job. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Or every non-creative work. But that's great news. That means that all of our basic needs are taken care of, and what remains for us is to be creative, which is really what every human wants. [S2] Yeah. [S1] I mean, what are you doing right now? [S2] Yeah. [S1] This is a creative job.
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[S1] There, there are absolutely problems with capitalism. I think monopolies are a problem. Uh, I think that, uh, crony capitalism is a problem with the government, you know, kind of gets in bed with them and sort of forces things. Uh, I think the bankers have really, you know, raped society and the rest of us are suffering for it. [S2] Literally. [S1] Yeah, they, they've essentially taken huge risks where they privatized the gains and they socialized the losses. So when it fails, they basically get bailed out and bankrupt everybody else. Uh,
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[S1] When you have equal outcome, that can only be enforced through violence, because different people, free people make different choices. And when they make different choices, they have different outcomes. And if you don't let them suffer the consequences of bad choices or reap the rewards from good choices, then you are forcibly redistributing through violence. It's interesting that there is, there are no socialist, working socialist examples that exist without violence. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] You basically need someone to show up with a gun and say, "Okay, you're not allowed to do that. You hand this over to that person."
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[S1] Some ethical games. The problem is because of these looters who have ruined capitalism's name- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... that then you get socialists coming in and saying, "Burn the whole system down." [S2] Right. [S1] You burn the whole system down, we end up like Venezuela or the former Soviet Union. You know, you don't wanna be a failed socialist state with emaciated teens hunting cats in the streets to eat, right? That's literally what happens in some of these places. Uh, so I think it's very important not to destroy the engine of progress that brought us here.
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[S1] Yeah, the idea that socialism just hasn't worked yet, that it needs to, the, the, we just need to do it right. If we do it right, we can ne- if you ever had a debate- [S2] Like 100 million dead and- [S1] Yeah. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Yeah, well- [S2] Let's keep trying. [S1] All over the world, yeah. And, and every single time it's been implemented. [S2] Every single time, yeah. [S1] Have you ever had a conversation with someone who's a socialist? Who, were, were you- [S2] Oh, many times. Some of my better, better friends are socialists. [S1] Really? [S2] So we, we really get into it, yeah. [S1] And what is there, I mean, does anyone have a compelling perspective at all?
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[S1] I, I think the, really, socialism comes from the heart, right? You all, we all wanna be socialist. Capitalism comes from the head, right? Because they're always cheaters in any system. [S2] Yes. [S1] And there's incentives in any system. So, when you're young, if you're, if, if you're not a socialist, you have no heart. When you're older, if you're not a capitalist, you have no head, right? You haven't thought it through. So, I understand where it comes from. I always liked Nassim Taleb's frame of this, where he said, "With my family, I'm a communist."
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[S1] ... with my close friends, I'm a socialist. Uh, you know, at my state level politics, I'm a Democrat. At, you know, higher levels, I'm a, I'm a Republican, and at the federal level, I'm a libertarian. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Right? So basically, the larger the group of people you have massed together, who have different interests, the less trust there is, the more cheating there is, the better the incentives have to be aligned, the better the system has to work, the more you go towards capitalism. The smaller the group you're in, you're in a kibbutz, you're in your commune, you're in your house, you're in your tribe, by all means be a socialist.
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[S1] With my aunts, with my brother, with my cousins, with my uncles, with my mom, with my family. [S2] Yes. [S1] I'm a socialist. That's the right way to live a loving, happy, integrated life. [S2] Yes. [S1] But when you're dealing with strangers, I mean, you want to be a real socialist? Great. Open all your doors and windows tomorrow. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Please, everybody, come take what you want. See how that works out. [S2] Yeah. Um, this idea of income inequality, that always strikes me as a very, it's a deceptive term, income inequality. [S1] Well-
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[S1] Well, let's flip it around. It comes from outcome inequality. [S2] Yes. [S1] And the outcome inequality is there because you made different choices. Now, again, going back, if it was because you didn't have the same opportunities, that's a problem. [S2] Yes. [S1] So society should always try to give people equal opportunities. So, for example, instead of basic income, what if we had a retraining program built into our basic social fabric, which said that
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[S1] And there's a lot of virtue signaling that goes on now where people say, "Well, it's 'cause you're privileged." [S2] Yeah, sort of that. [S1] It's like, "Well, you know, you know what the greatest privilege is? You're alive." [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] 85% of humanity is dead. [S2] Yeah. [S1] So, how privileged are you? Then you're living in the first world. Then you're, you know, you have four limbs, et cetera. So you can take that argument all the way. It's kind of a nonsense discussion.
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[S1] virtue signaling. [S2] Yeah, it's white on white violence. [S1] Yeah. [S2] What's mostly going on is it's elitist whites, blue state whites, college educated whites beating up on high school educated whites, blue collar. It's a white collar versus blue collar war that's going on. [S1] Oh, interesting. [S2] And the rest of us are just kind of watching like, "Oh, that's kind of interesting."
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[S1] ... these huge statements that people put out. When you, you read them, it's like, "How much time did you put in this? And what the fuck? Do you put that much time in your kids?" [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Yeah. [S2] Or your job, or- [S1] Or your job, or your life, or your future, or planning for your, you know, what, how much do you work out a day? I mean, are you just, these f- some, I read some people's Facebook posts, I'm like, "This is a preposterous amount of effort that you put into saying virtually nothing." [S2] Let's see, humans are being creative. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Let's see an AI do that. [LAUGHS]
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[S1] Well, that's true. It is creative. It's, it's creative in a very odd way, right? 'Cause it's creative in that they're trying to elicit a response from people and they're trying to raise their, their social value or raise their, their position on the social totem pole. [S2] It's signaling and it's easy signaling because it's the kind of thing that everybody has to agree with you on 'cause nobody wants to be seen as a horrible person. [S1] Yeah. [S2] And it's very hard to make the nuanced arguments against than it is to just kinda go along.
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bilibili_data_1200339459_BV1HW4y1i71t_p1_BV1HW4y1i71t_p1_m4-dialogue_0927613
[S1] Right. Well, it's also, it's, some of it is so cliche that it seems like, I, I know one guy who poses as a woman on, on Twitter, but he does it- [S2] Just once. [S1] ... obviously. [S2] [LAUGHS] Yeah. [S1] Uh, what is this, the name? Tatiana- [S2] McGrath. [S1] ... McGrath. Yes. [S2] Yeah, yeah. [S1] Hilarious. [S2] Used to be Godfrey Elwick. [S1] Yes. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Oh, is that the same guy? [S2] I think so, yeah. [S1] That's hilarious. [S2] Yeah. [S1] I did not, they killed his account. They ki- killed his account for- [S2] I think it's the same one. I'm not 100% sure, but- [S1] ... for
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bilibili_data_1200339459_BV1HW4y1i71t_p1_BV1HW4y1i71t_p1_m4-dialogue_0927614
[S1] ... or whatever it is. [S2] For pretending to be trans-racial. [S1] That's right. [S2] They didn't... [S1] Yeah. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] He basically says all the crazy stuff- [S2] Yes. [S1] ... that the people on the left say, but he says the craziest version. [S2] Yes. [S1] Uh, and kinda just shows how it's okay to say, like, I th- I saw a tweet from him recently, he just said, or her, that it's not okay to be white. [LAUGHS] [S2] Yes. Yes. [S1] [LAUGHS] That was the whole tweet. [S2] [LAUGHS] And then some people agree. [S1] Yeah. [S2] But it's, it's so close to what they say. [S1] Yeah. [S2] It's so close that it's like the most artful form of subtle parody 'cause it's- [S1] Well,
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[S1] Well, if you, if you replace in half of these things, if you replace the word white with black or Asian- [S2] Oh my God. [S1] Watch, watch the lynch mob descend upon you. [S2] Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a strange time in that respect that they're so much- [S1] There's a famous old saying that, uh, if you want to see who rules over you, see who you're not allowed to criticize.
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[S1] What it's doing. [S2] I think it's actually a great thing overall. [S1] Yeah, I do as well. [S2] Because now it means that any human can broadcast to any other human on the planet at any time. So for example, if, you know, a totalitarian dictator were to come to power and someone was beating up, you know, had fascists beating up on old women, like, that would get broadcasted out instantly. There would be an instant outrage, hue and cry rallying. So in that sense, it helps bring attention to the plight of anybody. But
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[S1] Right now we're going through the phase where we have this new found power to assemble mobs. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And people don't know how to deal with that. So it becomes very easy to set up a mob and have it attack somebody. [S2] Yes. [S1] Take all the context out. Like even this conversation, I'm sure people will take out snippets, put them on social media, and try and get somebody outraged. [S2] Of course. [S1] Uh, and so you have to learn how, first of all, society just has to get over this idea of outrage. Like, to me, like,
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[S1] Outraged people are the st- uh, people who get easily outraged are the stupidest people on social media. Those are the people I block instantly. Uh, it's just kind of very low level thinking, right? These are the foot so- the, these are the foot soldiers in a mob. Uh, eventually society just has to get over it. They have to understand that these are all snippets being taken out of context. These are doctored video clips. These are just someone who's trying to get outraged over something. Eventually, there'll also be anti-mob tactics. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Like, for example, if, if,
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[S1] I go to someone's Twitter feed, and all it is is full of polit- political ranting, raving, conspiracy theories. Do I want to work with this person? Do I want to associate with this person? [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Do I want to be friends with this person? Their mind is just cluttered with junk. Now, I don't necessarily blame them. I think that the human brain is not designed to absorb all of the world's breaking news 24/7 emergencies injected straight into your skull with clickbait headline news. If you pay attention to that stuff,
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[S1] Even if you're well-meaning, even if you're sound of mind and body, it will eventually drive you insane. This is, goes back to Clockwork Orange where he's, you know, has his eyes opened up- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... and he's forced to watch the news. But I think that's what's happening right now because these are addictive, right? [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] The, the, uh, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, these are weaponized. You have social statisticians and scientists and researchers and people in lab coats, literally, best minds of our generation figuring out how to addict you to the news. [S2] Yes. [S1] And if you fall for it, if you get addicted, you're
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[S1] I mean, it is. [S2] It's a price of freedom. [S1] It's a new road that needs to be navigated by young people that are, there's no map, there's no guidebook on how to handle this. [S2] Our generation is the transition generation. I think our kids will know how to handle it better 'cause they'll grow up with it. I hope, I hope.
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[S1] And then a bunch of people retweeted it, and like, "Oh my God, look, she's drunk." And, and so one of the online publications, uh, uh, some website tracked him down and doxed him. And it turned out he's just a day laborer who is an African-American Trump fan. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And thought it would be funny to do that. And it turns out that he didn't even
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[S1] At least according to him, he actually just put it up on his Facebook page. What's even more disturbing is Facebook gave up his information to this website. [S2] Right. [S1] For what? 'Cause he made something funny that made people seem drunk? There's a million of those about me. I mean, you, you could find them. I mean, I- [S2] Well, I think Facebook and Twitter and a bunch of these other social media platforms are committing slow motion suicide through these kinds of activities. That was a stunning
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[S1] ... one, though, that they would give up this guy who's a laborer because he made a parody video or he made someone look foolish with editing. [S2] Well, you now have basically the media views it as their job to go after individuals they don't like. [S1] Yeah, I use media with air quotes in that regard. [S2] Yeah. [S1] 'Cause I don't think this is something that the New York Times would have done or anything responsible, but.
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[S1] ... too many, right? [S2] Yeah. [S1] So news has become commoditized. So the entire news media has shifted into peddling opinions and entertainment. [S2] Yes. [S1] And so now they've become a variation between like cheerleaders, shock troops, enforcers, uh, you know, talking heads. So these are now tribal, or these are now propaganda machines signaling for their tribes. It's a right-wing one, there's a left-wing one, right? There's the alt-right, there's a control left, and the two of them are just fighting it out using their various media organs and memes. So basically,
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[S1] Whatever goes through our pipes, goes through our pipes. If it's illegal, we'll take it down, give us a court order. Otherwise, we don't touch it. It's like the phone company. If I call you up- [S2] Right. [S1] ... and I say something horrible to you on the phone, the phone company doesn't get in trouble. But the moment they started taking stuff down,
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[S1] been here today, actually, 'cause I just saw something related in the news. The day is coming when the politicians realize that these social media p- uh, platforms are picking the next president, the next congressman. They are literally picking, and they have the power to pick, so they will be controlled by the government. [S2] In, in what way? How do you think they're gonna be controlled? You think they're gonna have to adhere to strict principles of freedom of speech? [S1] No, no. [S2] First Amendment. [S1] Unfortunately, it's, unfortunately, it's headed the opposite direction.
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[S1] ... the opposite direction. [S2] I wish it was freedom of speech. Uh, much more likely they're gonna be, in the short to medium term, they're gonna be hauled in for hearings. Uh, they're gonna be pressured massively, "Do this, don't do that." [S1] My, my concern about that is the, the hearings that I saw with Zuckerberg, those people were completely incompetent. [S2] They are incompetent. [S1] They didn't seem to understand- [S2] They don't, they don't. But they're just applying pressure. They're just trying to scare him so he'll do what they want. And- [S1] What do they want him to do? [S2] They want him to basically suppress the other side.
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[S1] What'll eventually happen is that, uh, whenever you suppress speech, the organism metastasizes. Then it has to start turning towards other means. If you're unlucky, it goes towards violence. Uh, if you're lucky, they find other outlets. Uh, I think what will happen is we will start creating decentralized media that's not owned by any single entity, that can't be suppressed or shut down, that will then start spreading these various things. [S2] And that will take the place of Twitter or Facebook or whatever. [S1] That's right. But it's going to take 10 years, 20 years. It's not overnight. [S2] At least.
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[S1] ... not overnight. [S2] Well, uh, you know, Twitter took ten years to get to the point where it's at this mess right now. But it was so interesting to, to have Jack Dorsey and to, to talk to him about where it's going, where he thinks it's going, and in his own principles, which he believes that it's a fundamental right, and he believes that freedom of speech is something that we all should have, and that these platforms should essentially be like, like utilities, like the electric company or something. [S1] Jack is,
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[S1] Jack is correct, and he has the right vision. It's just he's in an organization where the other individuals in the organization feel differently. [S2] Very differently. [S1] So the organization itself can get hijacked.
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[S1] Yes, but Gab isn't even Wild West Twitter. They, they, when, when people dox people, they, they remove things like that. [S2] Yeah. I mean, I think there's certainly lines around violence and illegality that you don't want to cross, but- [S1] Yes. [S2] ... Gab is closer to a free speech platform, uh, but it's still not decentralized. It can still get shut down. It can still get taken out. So- [S1] Well, it's also suppressed heavily. [S2] Yes. So the, so there, and the people on there are right now are extremely right-wing, so it's not a pleasant place for someone like me to hang out. [S1] Well, it's all the people that have been kicked off of something else, so- [S2] That's right. That's right.
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[S1] Try going over there and being moderate. [S2] No. [S1] Try going over there. You, it's, there's no room for you. [S2] Yeah, unfortunately, because I don't identify as any party or any creed. [S1] Yeah. [S2] You know, it, it doesn't work for me. [S1] Is that a problem in Silicon Valley, when you don't identify as anything? Do, do you get pressure to- [S2] It, totally. It used to be okay. It's not okay anymore. [S1] When was it okay? Up until- [S2] Uh, like ten years ago, I would say it was okay. [S1] And then you started seeing a shift? [S2] Yeah. And now you have to pick sides. Otherwise, you're automatically the enemy. [S1] Really? [S2] Yeah. Struggle sessions and all that. [S1] God. Struggle session.
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[S1] I'm exaggerating for effect, but, but it definitely has that oppressive feeling to it. [S2] Right. And you also have to be politically outspoken. [S1] Yeah. [S2] It can't be something that you just stay neutral about. [S1] Right. It's like when, uh, Tim Ferriss, I think at some point put out a tweet about how you can't just say anything anymore and, you know, people are being suppressed. And a whole bunch of people, a lot of them from Silicon Valley, piled in and said, "What is it that you can't say? What are you afraid to say?" You can say whatever you want, Tim. Go ahead. What are you afraid of? [S2] Yeah. [S1] Right? They were, like, baiting him. [S2] [laughs] [S1] Yeah.
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