text
stringlengths 44
950k
| meta
dict |
|---|---|
Neurological Implications of Covid-19 Raise Concerns - doener
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-new-brain/202004/neurological-implications-covid-19-raise-concerns
======
_-_T_-_
Doubts have been raised about the validity of this hypothesis -
[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jmv.25828](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jmv.25828)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Thomas verdict: willful infringement, $1.92 million penalty - clint
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/jammie-thomas-retrial-verdict.ars
======
ramidarigaz
$80,000 per song... That is fucked up (pardon my language), but that is fucked
up.
Edit: Isn't the law supposed to protect against ridiculous punishments like
these?
~~~
latortuga
I believe it was a civil suit (that's really the only possible way that 80
grand per song couldn't be considered cruel and unusual).
------
dflock
I can't really see how this is even remotely proportionate, by any stretch of
the imagination. What were these 24 tracks? A bunch of obscure Swedish Death
Metal by all accounts. Is it likely that collecting these damages would make
more profit than the sales of the tracks ever would? Maybe. But, as she
pointed out, she hasn't got $2m anyway, so they can't collect - it seems
likely that the RIAA will just use the damages as a sledgehammer to bludgeon
her into settling 'out of court' and out of the glare of publicity. It makes
me wonder what the jurors were thinking - awarding life destroying damages
against a fellow citizen who is, presumably, an ordinary person, just like
them. I don't think that I could do that, personally.
~~~
fatdog789
Punitive damages are not meant to be proportionate. They are meant to be
penal, and to "send a message" to other potential tortfeasors. (Civil trial
for damages = tort).
However, SCOTUS has ruled very recently that punitive damages must be
proportional to the income and assets of the defendant, for example, $1M is
nothing to Bill Gates but is beyond devastating to the average man.
~~~
greendestiny
I'm not sure I've seen the justice in using people as examples. The compliance
of others isn't their problem. Awards being relative to income make sense for
fines, and I guess thats what these punitive damages are.
This behavior of record companies makes it hard for geeks like me who don't
support the abolishment of copyright. I think the worst that should happen in
cases of copyright infringement of music is a several hundred dollar fine
total, not per song.
------
pg
Something is broken in this country.
~~~
tptacek
You mean the fact that we fund public schools with local property taxes,
right?
~~~
rw
I have to agree with you, Thomas. While IP law in the United States is clearly
full of problems, we cannot ignore the simple numbers: millions of childrens'
lives are worsened every year, through no fault of their own, just because of
where, or to whom, they were born.
Healthcare? Quality education? Who gives a fuck- I want my free mp3s!
There's a reason the American _dream_ isn't called the American _reality_ :
widespread socioeconomic injustice is alive and well in the United States of
America.
------
quoderat
From the tone of many in this thread, it seems that people don't understand
that non-commercial copyright is not a crime, but instead is a civil
infraction -- hence why Thomas was not arrested, and not tried in a criminal
court.
But the copyright industry certainly wants everyone to believe it is a crime.
Looks like it is working.
Sad.
------
jonknee
Sometimes I wish hell were real so that the lawyers working double time to
make sure a woman goes bankrupt over 24 songs could go there. It just doesn't
make sense to have "damages" like that.
~~~
timwiseman
While I fully agree that this result is unjust, I would not blame the lawyers.
Remember the lawyers have a professional duty to faithfully represent their
client. If their client insists on pressing for the maximum possible damages
then the lawyers have a professional duty to take every action within the
bounds of ethics and law to get them.
This result was definitely unjust, but the lawyers are the wrong ones to
blame.
~~~
ambition
What? No. The lawyers have a ethical and moral duty as lawyers and human
beings to do the right thing. I'm not a lawyer, so I'll make an analogy
relevant to my profession. If some guy hires me to make a picture site and
then insists on a section for sex pics of children I have an ethical duty to
back out of the contract.
~~~
emmett
I understand your sentiment, but you're wrong. We need lawyers who will work
even for despicable clients. The reason for this rule is that everyone is
entitled to legal representation they can trust.
The clients really are at fault here.
~~~
greendestiny
I'd say the law (not lawyers) was at fault as well, or even mostly. A legal
system can't rely on the honesty or ethics of claimants and defendants to
function correctly almost by definition.
------
skwaddor
How do you think it stacks uo to what happened back in 2002 :
Tennessee Attorney General Paul G. Summers announced today that five of the
largest U.S. distributors of pre-recorded music CDs and three large retailers
agreed to pay millions of dollars in cash and free CDs as part of an agreement
on price-fixing allegations. The companies will pay $67,375,000 in cash,
provide $75,500,000 worth of music CDs, and not engage in sales practices that
allegedly led to artificially high retail prices for music CDs and reduced
retail competition as part of the agreement. Tennessee's share is an estimated
$993,948 in cash and $1,507,852 in CDs.
[http://www.attorneygeneral.state.tn.us/press/2002/story/PR13...](http://www.attorneygeneral.state.tn.us/press/2002/story/PR13.pdf)
~~~
blasdel
I got a check for ~$10.
Public libraries all over the country got shipping containers full of Mariah
Carey deadstock.
The lawyers leading the class action got tens of millions of dollars.
------
quizbiz
What % of people that have downloaded a song without paying would have paid
for that song?
------
boryas
Would you steal a purse? If getting caught cost me $80,000 then probably
not... So much for reasonable punishments.
~~~
dflock
Imagine the outcry if all punishments were meted out on this kind of scale.
Jaywalking: 10 years hard labour!
And no, I wouldn't steal a purse, because a purse is a physical object, owned
by an ordinary individual human being, who would be materially and emotionally
harmed by the theft. This case of Copyright infringement involves imaginary
property of enormously rich corporations who would not be materially affected
by it in any measurable way. It's more akin to stealing an invisible mote of
dust from the bottom of someones purse, without them being aware of it at any
point.
All the evidence actually suggests that music sharing increases income for
commercial music as a whole, yet sharing these 24 tracks has resulted in a $2m
fine. Ironically, you would be punished enormously less for actually mugging
someone and stealing their purse.
~~~
boryas
I wasn't trying to say that we should have equally barbaric punishments for
purse-snatching but rather that we should have equally fair and reasonable
punishments for file-sharing.
I can see how my point was made unclear by the unsuccessful joke, though.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Private equity controls the U.S. voting machine industry - petethomas
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-03/private-equity-controls-the-gatekeepers-of-american-democracy?srnd=premium
======
darawk
The problem here isn't private equity control of the industry...it's state &
local governments choosing to actually use these things. PE can call a
lemonade stand a voting machine, that's what it means to live in a free
country, but that doesn't mean we have to use the damn thing. It's a joke.
It's not like we don't know how to design reasonably secure electronic voting
mechanisms[1]...these companies just don't bother. There is no reason anyone
should ever be using these things.
[1]
[https://crypto.stanford.edu/pbc/notes/crypto/voting.html](https://crypto.stanford.edu/pbc/notes/crypto/voting.html)
~~~
philipov
I disagree with the notion that false advertising is a right characteristic of
free countries. Free does not mean anarchy.
~~~
darawk
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. My point is that these companies ought to
be able to sell 'voting machines' that suck, and we ought to be free to not
buy them. They should not be free to make false claims about them.
~~~
0x7265616374
absolutely agree on all three points. unfortunately it's well known that
governments often go with the lowest bid for a plethora of goods and services,
and it's all to easy to lowball a bid to push machines that suck.
~~~
olliej
In California at least there were ballot iniatives that mean the CA government
_must_ go with the lowest bid, even if it is from a company that has
consistently run far over budget.
Honestly I feel the solution to this is: lowest bid, but the company cannot
charge more than their bid and needs to have completion/bankruptcy insurance.
That way companies that routinely under bid will go bankrupt/have the
bankruptcy insurance bills increase until it becomes unprofitable to underbid.
------
hnmonkey
Is there a solid argument for not having more regulation on these
organizations? We have so much regulation on slot machines and casinos for
example because we know that a lot of money passes through there and there's
high potential for money laundering. Why not have strong regulations around
voting systems too? We know that if voting systems are compromised the impact
could be devastating to the entire country - far more critical to America's
security and continuity than regulation in many other industries.
I just don't get the opposition to that. It seems like it's in everyone's best
interest (those that are honest and are looking for a fair foundation to build
from that is).
~~~
maxxxxx
I honestly think that a lot of people in the US think it's more important that
their party wins than having fair elections. So I don't expect a big push
coming from the people who are responsible for these purchases.
~~~
Spivak
I'm not sure why you see that as irrational? If I had a genie that made sure
whoever I voted for won I wouldn't really hesitate to use it. It would be
silly of me to refuse.
The party in power is expected to lie cheat and steal to maintain their
position and the opposition parties are supposed to keep them in check.
Adversarial systems seem to work pretty well since the incentives align -- way
better than I would expect an honor system to work at least.
~~~
smolder
It's irrational because they should understand both from both civics education
an intuitively that the success of the system depends on good faith
participation. If we don't respect the process or the outcomes, act like
adversaries to our own country, it ends up a steaming pile.
~~~
Spivak
Why do I care about 'the system'? It's just a means to make a decision.
Holding the process as the highest ideal ignores the consequences. If a wrong
decision gets made but we followed the process are we really saying we're
somehow better off than if we made the right one?
~~~
maxxxxx
It seems you are advocating outright war between factions and let the
strongest win. In this case we should abolish all laws.
------
darkerside
Why is it that Bloomberg has run an article so light on the details of the
financial ownership of these companies by private equity firms (something they
should be quite expert in), and instead mostly consisting of old news stories
about how close some past elections have been (not their area of expertise and
barely relevant if the idea is that the entire voting system can be wholesale
rigged)?
My guess is that it's because if you dig into the details, there is little
actual control being exercised by those PE firms, making this a non story.
------
tracker1
I'm not even sure there's a good answer. It's not just federal and state
elections. There is a lot of complexity that isn't considered. Localized
districts (water, fire, school, parks, etc) have weird and overlapping
boundaries compared to other districts. Add in some gerrymandering and it gets
horrific to write software against.
While I'm genuinely concerned over security considerations, not to mention
equipment. It's hard to coordinate even the paper/scantron style ballots. What
bugs me more about the visual/touch computers is the _time_ that those
stations take relative to cost... a few cardboard privacy booths and scantron
is _much_ better, but we're spending billions on systems that are demonstrably
worse.
And anything over the internet is a non-starter now. In the end, I really hope
that more states/districts realize how bad the cost/benefit of the computer
voting stations are. Not even considering the coordination, lack of paper
trail, before considering the relative consolidation and closed-source nature
of the system.
Disclosure: I work for a company that does ballot printing and other election
services, but not voting machines specifically.
------
twblalock
Maybe everyone should vote by mail, which currently is done by paper ballot.
The current voting machines have problems, and I'd rather use paper ballots
today, but let's not make the mistake of thinking that paper ballots are the
ideal long-term solution. Remember "hanging chads" and voter confusion caused
by the ballot layout in Florida back in 2000?
~~~
briandear
Voting by mail is fraught with huge problems. Zero proof the person filling it
out and mailing it are actually the person they should be. Campaigns often
block walk, “helping” people complete their ballots, for example. Also ballots
get sent to dead people quite frequently. Voting by mail should only be done
for those overseas and hand delivered to a consulate where ID can be verified.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/us/politics/as-more-
vote-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/us/politics/as-more-vote-by-mail-
faulty-ballots-could-impact-elections.html)
[https://www.themonitor.com/news/local/article_983f423e-d3e9-...](https://www.themonitor.com/news/local/article_983f423e-d3e9-11e8-9bd6-a7ddaa46a712.html)
[https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-
wort...](https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-
worth/article219920740.html)
A single person at a polling location committing fraud affects one vote, but a
few people committing mail in fraud can affect hundreds or thousands of votes.
“Helping” people vote, while not illegal, is definitely ripe for abuse. “Want
to keep your social security checks? Here, sign this ballot.”
In person voting with your thumb dipped in dye just like they do in developing
countries along with photo ID, along with auditable paper ballots is a sure-
fire way to eliminate fraud. Those that oppose this generally are the ones who
benefit the most from the current system.
~~~
com2kid
The counter argument is that it is much harder to intercept the mail en-masse
than it is to interfere with elections in person.
Every year there are stories of polling places having "technical difficulties"
or being "moved at the last minute" in certain neighborhoods. Roads get closed
down, signs directing people where to go to vote are not put up, and 4+ hour
lines out the door become common place in areas where those in power want to
suppress votes.
In contrast, with vote by mail people don't have to take a day off of work,
they don't have to wait out in the cold for hours, and they don't have to risk
not being able to vote at all if their local polling place decided that all
the machines are "no longer working".
------
donbright
democracy dies because people couldn't be bothered with the "mundane technical
details".
its like this is a flaw of intelligent civilization that Carl Sagan didn't
think about. it's not global nuclear warfare, it's not climate change, it's
not some mad virus...
it's that the species becomes disinterested in performing maintenance because
maintenance tasks don't produce a dopamine rush. the civilization becomes too
incompetent to perform even the most basic upkeep on the structures they set
in place - whether physical like roads and bridges, or social-political, like
election systems.
nobody becomes famous or wealthy for performing upkeep.
------
stretchwithme
I don't see why we can't use open source voting software, low cost PCs and old
fashioned punchcard machines.
The problems in 2000 were all about data not be correctly recorded. That was
solved a long time ago. There never was a need to start transmitting the data
electronically.
Now we can use electronic gathering of the data AND automatic counting of the
physical ballots to help prevent fraud. But replacing physical ballots with
electronic vote collection wasn't really needed.
But lobbyists saw an opportunity.
~~~
stonesixone
The City and County of San Francisco has started funding a project to do just
this. More info can be found here:
[https://osvtac.github.io/](https://osvtac.github.io/)
------
lsiebert
Before I saw this today, I saw this opinion piece from the ny times:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/03/opinion/midterm-
election-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/03/opinion/midterm-election-
hacked.html)
I can't help but think, if private equity already controls the industry, that
there is ample room for a startup or non profit or even a government owned
business to disrupt the industry. Create real secure optical scan voting
machines based on the best practices that have been come up with, and with
independent audits and sell them with a contract where the machines are
updated with security fixes for a fixed period.
Sell the machines a bit like razors, The machines themselves are relatively
cheap, but come with a required subscription to the security fixes for the
lifetime of the machine.
~~~
specialist
Los Angeles County is one of the few jurisdictions with the resources and heft
to move the needle on their own.
They're making their own OSS tabulators. I've been out of the election
integrity game for a while, so I'm not immediately familiar with the scope of
their effort.
Any one wanting to reform USA's election administration stack should start in
LA. Help their effort. Lobby to import their gear to their own jurisdiction.
Study their effort, roadmap.
~~~
stonesixone
No, Los Angeles County's new tabulator isn't open source. Look what happened
when someone tried to request the source code for their "open source" system
(as LA County's press release called it). LA County replied that it's "exempt
from disclosure" for a whole host of reasons (2 pages worth):
[https://osvtac.github.io/files/meetings/2018/2018-09-13/pack...](https://osvtac.github.io/files/meetings/2018/2018-09-13/packet/LA_County_Records_Request.pdf)
[https://osvtac.github.io/meetings/2018/2018-09-13/agenda](https://osvtac.github.io/meetings/2018/2018-09-13/agenda)
In contrast, the City and County of San Francisco _is_ working on developing
and certifying an open source paper-ballot system.
~~~
tracker1
And that's not even close to the most shady action a government has tried with
software that I've heard about.
------
exabrial
Open source software and hardware could be a solution for these problems me
thinks. Or at least a requirement for shared source of both
------
rmrfrmrf
...just the gatekeepers?
------
jimhefferon
> Can we trust the outcome?
Clearly not.
------
gok
Uhg now PE is the new boogieman? If these voting machine firms were public
companies, or family owned, or a subsidiary of a conglomerate, would that
somehow be better?
~~~
tlb
A family-owned voting machine company’s main incentive is to sell voting
machines. A PE firm might be able to hedge themselves into vast upsides from
particular election outcomes — much larger amounts of money than the sale of
voting machines — and then affect the outcome.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Jack Dorsey Only Eats One Meal a Day - awiesenhofer
https://www.gq.com/story/jack-dorsey-only-eats-one-meal-a-day
======
claudiawerner
Intermittent fasting is gaining popularity, but it's hard for me to tell which
aspect (if we must choose) provides the benefit: either there is something
inherent in fasting for 24 hours (one meal a day, "OMAD") itself which
promotes "health" or weight loss, or it is simply that it's difficult to eat
too much in one nutritionally balanced meal. Anecdotally, I've been doing this
for about three months and I noticed both that I am fine with eating less (the
"stomach shrinking" phenomenon), possibly due to the nature of fasting
teaching my body that it doesn't need to eat so much _and_ that I have lost a
non-insignificant amount of weight - and even at this rate, I was being rather
lax with it, taking days off (i.e eating two or three meals a day) now and
then (which usually left me feeling bloated).
In my experience, people tend to severely underestimate how much energy they
are consuming, often neglecting to take into account chips (one of those small
cans of Pringles has something like 400 calories) and more egregiously,
sugared soft drinks which don't leave one feeling very full.
~~~
tracker1
Even if you are carb/glucose centered intake your body is able to clear more
carbs with less insulin and other side effects in one meal than spread out
over the day. It takes anywhere from 8-14 hours for people to get to ketosis
or after eating (unless eating keto and already adapted). Autophagy starts at
a similar point, which can have significant benefits anywhere from a couple
hours a day to a 5-7 or 14 day fast.
Most of the research on fasting beyond 7 days shows that it's mostly going to
only benefit weight loss. OMAD makes calorie management generally a lot
easier. Most people have a hard time eating more than they should in under an
hour or so a day. I mean, you could literally eat that much in candy, but most
other sources would be difficult.
OMAD also allows for a longer, low-insulin and lower glucose window (depending
on macro intake). The benefits will vary though. Eating 1-2 meals a day and
not snacking or consuming anything sweetened (sugar or artificial) between
meals is enough for most people to normalize their weight if not already obese
and/or diabetic.
Eat clean first... cut the sugars, grains, legumes and refined seed oils
(vegetable oils) first. Stop snacking second. 1-2 meals third. Longer fasting
fourth. ... depends on how bad off you are. Some physical activity and weight
lifting is generally beneficial but intake is the primary factor regarding
overall weight and health.
------
leptoniscool
Isn't the whole "3 meals a day" a modern invention? Maybe 1 meal a day is the
natural diet of humans..
~~~
tracker1
OMAD (One Meal A Day) is probably more than a lot of primitive man ate. Unless
stopping near some fruit or nut bearing bushes or trees during their season
that is, where they likely engorged themselves for a while.
The rest may have been filled with fishing or hunting or otherwise foraging.
More time looking for food than eating it. Given the benefits of fasting and
time restricted eating, I'd say OMAD is probably very natural.
Dr. Jason Fung is pretty much considered a leading expert on fasting in
general, even if his presentation is a bit folksy. There was also a lot of
cold war era Russian research on fasting benefits.
When eating paleo and more so with keto, I find a lot of people naturally
gravitate to 1-2 meals a day once they stop snacking between planned meals. A
lot of people aren't hungry at breakfast, and often will lead to one larger
and one smaller meal over time.
For the past year and a half, my advice to most people is eat clean first.
Avoid refined sugars, all grains and legumes and avoid refined seed oils
(vegetable oils, anything not cold pressed or animal derived). Vegetarian can
be an option above that, but will generally include legumes. It's hard to be
vegetarian without refined foods or legumes (common allergen).
When cutting starchy foods, and getting a bit more fat, eating _lots_ of
veggies or not, once past the hormone driven cravings it's pretty easy. Social
queues are much harder though.
------
forkLding
I did this before but was mainly because was too lazy and busy to eat.
~~~
egypturnash
My life. :)
I gotta wonder if Dorsey has intermittent snacking going on, I find I'm pretty
damn functional on one meal plus semi-healthy snacks (mixed nuts/berries/small
chocolate bits, mostly).
------
runamok
If he is walking 10 miles a day that's ~1000 calories. Assuming he needs
another 1500-ish how is it possible to eat 2000+ calories in one sitting? I
imagine in reality he is grazing on snacks/fruit all day or something but what
do I know? I'm CEO of 0 companies...
------
toomuchtodo
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_fasting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_fasting)
------
ohiovr
Friend of mine did this. I don't have the discipline.
------
rkwasny
Kidney stones in 3.. 2.. 1..
~~~
BasicObject
Care to explain why this would give someone kidney stones? I've been on a
variation of the 5-2 diet (eat 5 days a week, fast 2 days a week) for about 7
years. I've had kidney stones once in my life but it was years before I ever
tried fasting/keto/5-2.
------
herrrk
Sounds kind of eating disorder-y. Orthorexia? Manorexia?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Major new bill mandating open access introduced in Congress - michael_nielsen
https://plus.google.com/109377556796183035206/posts/FZFvDhBLTzE
======
michael_nielsen
See, in particular, the Call to Action from the Alliance for Taxpayer Access
(ATA):
[http://www.taxpayeraccess.org/action/FASTR_calltoaction.shtm...](http://www.taxpayeraccess.org/action/FASTR_calltoaction.shtml)
The ATA were closely involved in the passage of the NIH Public Access Policy
(2008), which makes all NIH-funded research openly accessible within 6 months
of being published.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
IT Geeks are best in bed - mteinum
http://www.adressa.no/forbruker/sexogsamliv/article1334737.ece
======
mteinum
And with google translate:
[http://translate.google.no/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev...](http://translate.google.no/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adressa.no%2Fforbruker%2Fsexogsamliv%2Farticle1334737.ece)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Blogs.perl.org hacked - kamaal
http://perlhacks.com/2014/01/blogs-perl-org/
======
welder
MySQL dump of accounts including passwords hashed using perl's truncated DES
crypt function:
[https://www.quickleak.org/QtPly6aE](https://www.quickleak.org/QtPly6aE)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Who are your programming rockstars, and why? - bangonkeyboard
Carmack, Torvalds, Bellard, Wozniak, et al. Who do you personally admire as 10x or otherwise brilliant coders? What do you consider their most notable or emulable accomplishments, habits, or contributions?
======
folkhack
An unsung hero of mine is John Resig... hear me out - TONS of stuff that
jQuery had became mainstream over the years, and I think it did a lot to
popularize things like AJAX which led to much more dynamic web experiences.
It was the first library that worked consistently well across the board,
provided an easy-to-use CSS-selector based experience to query and manipulate
the DOM, and had very solid documentation.
I feel like jQuery is/was a mainstay of the web and although we've seen it
lose popularity over the years it's still one of the biggest game changers in
my web development tooling.
He also is a key player at Khan Academy* which is one of the best online
learning resources to date.
All-in-all I think the guy is an excellent example of an entrepreneurial
engineer and I would fanboy so hard if I ever met him.
* Not founder of Khan Academy (doh!)
~~~
otoburb
>> _He also started Khan Academy which is one of the best online learning
resources to date._
I agree with your points about John Resig (great choice!), except I'm pretty
sure that Resig joined Khan Academy in 2011[1] while Salman Khan[2] was the
sole founder in 2008[3].
[1] [https://johnresig.com/blog/next-steps-
in-2011/-](https://johnresig.com/blog/next-steps-in-2011/-)
[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal_Khan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal_Khan)
[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Academy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Academy)
~~~
folkhack
Ah thanks for the correction! Edited my comment for accuracy =)
------
wenc
I don't do development full-time anymore and haven't kept up to date with
superstars in the programming world so take this opinion with a grain of salt.
I've always admired the clarity of thought of Rich Hickey [1], creator of
Clojure. I wish I could point to a single article or post that outlines his
philosophy, but they're all over the Internet. I used to spend hours in the
early 2010s scouring the web for his writings/videos.
What I find admirable about Rich is that he was originally trained as a
musician, yet has an impressive theoretical grasp of software concepts and is
tempered in his designs by way of a battle-tested pragmatism (stemming from
his having written software for real-world systems).
I've never written a single line of Clojure (and it's unlikely I will ever do
so), but his thinking process has been an inspiration to me.
[1] [https://www.red-gate.com/simple-talk/opinion/geek-of-the-
wee...](https://www.red-gate.com/simple-talk/opinion/geek-of-the-week/rich-
hickey-geek-of-the-week/)
~~~
ooooak
Agree, Clojure has the most influence on me. There are lots of things to learn
from Clojure and I don't see anyone taking lessons from Clojure people. it
seems like everything is just one large MVC after rails. We are not ready to
move on.
------
throwaway34241
Mike Pall
Writing a full just-in-time compiler for a dynamic language (Lua) [1] that was
not only much faster than contemporary browser Javascript engines, but also
faster than the Android JVM (at the time) [2].
Also porting that compiler to emit x86, x64, ARM, PPC, MIPS. All as one
person.
It was so impressive that I'm actually a little curious what he's been working
on now, since he's mostly moved on from the project and has (I'm sure
deliberately) little online presence. Maybe some company has some amazing
secret project that we'll find out about someday.
[1] [http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2009-11/msg00089.html](http://lua-
users.org/lists/lua-l/2009-11/msg00089.html)
[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2617628](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2617628)
------
ioddly
Fabrice Bellard: [http://bellard.org](http://bellard.org)
Notable: no social media, nothing like that. Just shows up occasionally with
something that would take another dev probably a couple years to do.
~~~
bumbledraven
No daily scrum.
No social media.
No code of conduct.
He just sat there.
Programming.
Like a psychopath.
~~~
jariel
In software, you get economies of focus, not so much economies of scale.
But he generally creates 'tech', not 'products' which are much harder to make.
Though of course we owe him and others like him a lot.
------
closeparen
Rich Hickey is _the_ model of technical leadership.
\- He reflects on the experience of programming.
\- He identifies and can articulate what's wrong with our tools, conventions,
and thinking.
\- He builds and advocates abstractions that don't suffer from those problems.
Even if Clojure and Datomic remain obscure, he'll have taught me what I want
to be when I grow up.
~~~
yakshaving_jgt
I might agree with you if it weren't for his misguided railings against types.
------
richardjdare
Andrew Braybrook - Game designer and programmer of Paradroid and Uridium
amongst others. Prominent in the 8 and 16bit era (an age of rockstars, really)
I still think about those days to inspire myself.
Kai Krause - Early Photoshop pioneer, designer of Kai's Power Tools, Bryce. I
see him as a kind of artist/programmer, who demonstrated that application
software development wasn't just about cranking out features, but about
creating an experience for the user, a particular window onto this amazing
digital world.
Matthew Dillon - Developer of Dragonfly BSD and prominent old-school Amiga
hacker. Absolutely solid programmer. Wish he did more interviews.
Rich Hickey - I don't yet have a reason to use Clojure or Datomic, but I watch
every Rich Hickey talk or interview I can get my hands on. Hammock Driven
Development is the only development ideology that appeals to me :)
------
quickthrower2
Evan Czaplicki.
He created the Elm language. While other people ported Haskell-like languages
to the web (Purescript, GHCJS, Fay, ... ), Evan found a way to tame the
complexity of the web with an evolving architecture that start with something
like FRP / Rx and ended up with the Elm Architecture, which hits a sweet spot.
You can even use T.E.A. without using Elm! Although it's best using a
functional language that supports immutability, otherwise there is more work
trying to not mutate things.
T.E.A. has been copied to a number of different languages and is manifested
inside the Redux pattern. I think time will hopefully tell that his work will
have big influence on UI and Web development in the 2020's, whether we are
directly using Elm or something based on those ideas.
T.E.A. is:
A global state.
A set of defined messages that can be sent to update the global state.
An update function - given a message, and the global state returns a new
global state and any asynchronous "commands" to execute. Commands go off and
do something then post a message once done.
A view function - given a global state returns a representation of how to
render the UI. This representation includes messages to send on events such as
"onclick".
Subscriptions - these produce messages when things happen in the real world,
for example local storage state changes.
------
badpun
Jonathan Blow. His ability to retain focus and clarity for hours (as
demonstrated on streams, while doing high-quality coding) seems out of reach
for an average dev like me. Clearly an outlier.
------
twic
Inigo Quilez, a demoscene programmer who does amazing work - of a very high
technical and artistic standard, often in painfully tiny sizes - and then
writes lucidly about it:
[http://iquilezles.org/www/index.htm](http://iquilezles.org/www/index.htm)
Here's 'Elevated' a four-kilobyte demo he did (along with others):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB0vBmiTr6o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB0vBmiTr6o)
And here's the writeup:
[http://iquilezles.org/www/material/function2009/function2009...](http://iquilezles.org/www/material/function2009/function2009.pdf)
------
rvz
The funny thing is with those aforementioned so-called 'rockstar programmers',
without Dennis Ritchie's creation and contributions to both UNIX and the C
Programming Language, these 'rockstars' would have been totally unknown in the
first place.
And no, they are simply not '10x' programmers, they're just standing on the
shoulders of giants like Ritchie as well as all other programmers are standing
on their shoulders too.
~~~
redis_mlc
Sure, Ritchie's awesome.
But I'm not sure why engineers slag other engineers so often.
Most of the startups in Silicon Valley started as prototypes written by one
10x guy.
(For you HN pedants, that's called an "existence proof.")
If you don't see 10x programmers after the startup phase, that's the fault of
corporate mgmt. Tall poppy and all that.
~~~
ljw1001
> If you don't see 10x programmers after the startup phase, that's the fault
> of corporate mgmt. Tall poppy and all that.
Actually, it's because building a real product is 10x harder than building a
prototype.
------
xbhdhdhd
Carmack is not only at the top of my list but is an awesome communicator at
the same time.
------
algaeontoast
This guy I know who’s 5-6 years into his career and can in 2-4 days line up
10+ interviews and has an 80%+ rate of converting offers. Even though he had a
period of spending 3-4 months at four different companies.
It bows me away. That, to me at least is a rockstar programmer.
Him, Jose Valim of the Eixir project and the guy who wrote Asciinema (one of
the best examples of a web / systems project written in elixir and phoenix).
~~~
nefitty
Do you have any insight into his method for procuring offers, or his portfolio
that impressive?
~~~
algaeontoast
Not really, he never worked for a FAANG, only got into Cs after doing a two
year program at a solid college after getting a political science degree from
NYU.
~~~
BobLaw
Are you able to pm any more insights? As someone that's currently having
trouble even getting a response this seems insane to me.
~~~
mikekchar
Not the OP and I'm not in a position where I'm hiring people, but feel free to
send me your CV and I'll give you some feedback. Normally if you can't get a
response it's because you've got a red flag on the CV. Getting job interviews
and turning job interviews into job offers is a real skill, but it's a skill
you can learn if you work at it. If you want, just remove any personally
identifiable information from from your CV before sending it to me -- like I
said, I'm not currently in a position where I'm hiring so no need to give me
any personal info.
------
OldManAndTheCpp
Ulrich Drepper. I know him personally, and respect his contributions to glibc.
His writing style on bug tickets was blunt, but in most of the examples I’ve
seen I believe he had the correct argument in the end (the exception is his
calling ARM a toy instruction set).
[https://www.akkadia.org/drepper/](https://www.akkadia.org/drepper/)
------
AndrewKemendo
I'm pretty surprised to not see Jeff Dean mentioned so far.
Co-Inventor with Sanjay Ghemawat on:
\- MapReduce \- Spanner \- BigTable \- Tensorflow
Jeff Dean Facts: [https://www.quora.com/What-are-all-the-Jeff-Dean-
facts](https://www.quora.com/What-are-all-the-Jeff-Dean-facts)
~~~
rramadass
Sanjay Ghemawat is as big as Jeff Dean. It is just that he is more of an
introvert and takes a backseat to Jeff in the public discourse.
Here is a great article on their partnership:
[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/12/10/the-
friendship...](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/12/10/the-friendship-
that-made-google-huge)
Quote: _But, for those who know them both, Sanjay is an equal talent. “Jeff is
great at coming up with wild new ideas and prototyping things,” Wilson Hsieh,
their longtime colleague, said. “Sanjay was the one who built things to
last.”_
~~~
AndrewKemendo
Yea it was a toss-up between the two, but there's been so little out there
about Sanjay that he's hard to know enough about to emulate unless you work
with him directly I assume.
Jeff on the other hand, because he's slightly more extroverted as you point
out, does videos and press which makes it easier to follow him.
------
fredsanford
No mention of Michael Abrash? He was a truly original thinker and one of the
best with optimization.
Icer Addis of Bloodlust Software had a pretty spectacular run in the '90s with
at least 3 high quality emulators.
As for current times, Andrew Gallant, (BurntSushi (ripgrep and related
software)) writes very high quality code that is very usable.
------
rramadass
I have come around to worshiping the pioneers :-) Edsger W. Dijkstra, Niklaus
Wirth, Tony Hoare etc.
Though i have not read all their works (nor completely understood their ideas)
just the way of exposition and breadth of their thoughts, the insistence on
mathematical rigour and formalism etc. always makes me think that i don't yet
understand what "programming" is all about. Just slinging code is NOT enough.
The idea of programming to a specification using "correctness by design"
methodologies (eg. Hoare triples and logic) seems to me to be fundamental to
programming. And yet most of us only follow "trial and error" methodology
limited by our own lack of knowledge and discipline.
------
bryanrasmussen
It seems for a lot of people in this thread one of the defining aspects of
being a rockstar is to produce something that other programmers all use - most
generally a language but also a ubiquitous library like JQuery that ends up
defining the future direction of the language it is written for.
I suppose that one could argue by writing things for other programmers their
productivity using your tools can be seen as an extension of yours - that
without John Resig many people would have been less productive therefor he
derives a little bit of productivity from each person who uses his library.
But maybe it is just because these are the programmers you are most likely to
be familiar with.
------
xrd
Brad Fitzpatrick
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Fitzpatrick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Fitzpatrick)).
He invented lots of cool stuff before he got heavily involved with Golang. It
was inspiring to see him talking at Perl meetups in Portland back when Perl
was cool.
Derek Sivers is a great developer because he shared his experiences learning
(at the time Ruby on Rails was brand new). He's doing that same sharing now
with a higher level of abstraction, sharing about how to think.
~~~
logicuce
Yes. A fan of Brad myself. The number of things he invented (memcached,
gearman, djabberd, etc.) or had a direct impact on (OpenID, PubSub in general,
Golang, etc.) is phenomenal.
His website gives a better idea of his interests and involvements.
[http://www.bradfitz.com/](http://www.bradfitz.com/)
------
mudderkugle
John Shutt : [https://fexpr.blogspot.com/](https://fexpr.blogspot.com/)
[https://web.cs.wpi.edu/~jshutt/play.html](https://web.cs.wpi.edu/~jshutt/play.html)
He designed Kernel Programming Language, a very neat lisp that allow to
exploit and reason about the semantics powers that lisp has binged over the
years (symbolic, continuations, encapsulation …).
I also highly appreciates the articles that he writes in his blog, they gave
me “insights” ...
------
muzani
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Bill Gates. Building a boot loader on a flight.
Solving the same problems most of us do daily, but while in school and with a
lower level language. A career with operating systems.
Chris Sawyer. Built a fun, complex game in Assembly that most people can't do
with JavaScript.
Barbara Liskov. Lay the foundation for object oriented back when there was
nothing to start with.
Tarn Adams. Lots of room for improvement, but incredible, incredible stamina
and understanding of mathematics and procedural generation.
------
gitgud
George Hotz is an excellent programmer and presenter. I like the way that he
talks and explains things.
He compares the Tesla to the iPhone and his system Comma AI to the Android.
~~~
tudelo
He seems smart, but an excellent presenter? I really never got that vibe. He
always seems like he is on way too many stimulants.
------
zzo38computer
I think, Knuth. I think TeX and METAFONT and MMIX and TAOCP and so on is good.
~~~
mcv
Knuth is my favourite on several levels. He wrote the definitive version of
quite a number of algorithms, and when he wrote The Art Of Computer
Programming, he wrote TeX because he was unhappy with the state of typesetting
technology at the time. There are legendary stories about his ability to
program bug-free code on on his first try and his ability to debug other
people's code while he was typing it for them on punchcards.
------
AnimalMuppet
Bjarne Stroustrup.
Alexander Stepanov. (I once pointed out to him a bug in the first version of
the STL. Me, a nobody that he had never heard of before. He emailed me three
generations of bug fixes in the next two hours.)
------
rakeshgupta
Linus Torvalds : Linus Torvalds, the founder of the Linux open-source
operating system, has been leading his developer community with sarcasm,
insults, and abuse for three decades, and many people think it’s time for a
change. Torvalds is a legend in the open-source community for the way he’s
stuck to his principles and steered a free project into a giant. But open-
source work is a largely thankless job that people volunteer to participate
in, and their work is rarely seen outside of a small group of people.
------
bigred100
Jack Dongarra of perhaps most specially BLAS/LAPACK fame.
------
deepaksurti
Many but PG (paul graham) for his books on Lisp and Lisp essays; they
literally changed my programming career and many many others I think!
------
carapace
Apenwarr. [https://apenwarr.ca/log/](https://apenwarr.ca/log/)
I know him a little IRL and, although he hasn't done anything that has made
him famous, I believe he's in the same league.
------
Razengan
People like Matthew Smith, the guy behind Manic Miner, and the many other
“bedroom coders” of the 1980s and early 90s. :)
[https://youtu.be/Dss-HZb2YWI](https://youtu.be/Dss-HZb2YWI)
~~~
stevekemp
Matthew Smith, and later Julian Gollop were definite early "heros" of mine.
The former for the obvious reason, the latter almost solely for Chaos.
I can recognize a lot of modern developers who are very productive, and seem
to have multiple projects on the go. But I always think of Antirez first, he's
humble, quiet, thoughtful, and thoroughly competent.
I'd rather work with a careful, slow, and precise, person that an army of
super-coders.
------
Gorbzel
Chris Lattner
------
kazinator
Philip Greenspun
[https://philip.greenspun.com/personal/resume](https://philip.greenspun.com/personal/resume)
------
manls
John McCarthy, the creator of Lisp. He also played a big role in the progress
of artificial intelligence in the early 1950s.
~~~
jonjacky
He was also among the first - maybe the first - to propose time-sharing and
helped build one of the earliest time-sharing systems.
------
tehlike
Oren eini/ayende rahien. Hands down one of the best. Great at both low level
and high level programming...
------
amitprayal
Slava Pestov, who started the jEdit Editor, created the Factor programming
language and now working on Swift.
------
thisone
two former co-workers who aren't "names" in the industry.
They could argue with grace, they could see what was needed and build it.
And even the projects that were built quickly were easy for other people to
work on and extend.
------
kvajjha
Leonardo de Moura.
------
redis_mlc
I agree that Wozniak should get more credit for both his combined and separate
hardware and software results.
Two programmers that are still not fully-appreciated are:
1) Monty Widenius (MySQL, the foundation of both Web 1.0 and 2.0)
2) Antirez (Redis, also the foundation of Web 2.0)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Data Structures in Swift – Part 2 - prtkgpt
https://www.pluralsight.com/guides/swift/data-structures-in-swift-part-2
======
abhimt
Data Structure problems in C++
[http://www.techiedelight.com/](http://www.techiedelight.com/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
State Changes Are Essential to Reliability; Functional Programming Is an Abomination - bct
http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/2007/09/functional-programming-is-worse-than.html
======
dougp
This guy for some reason hates our current model of computing. He thinks that
it can never be effectively parrallelized because our traditional languages
dont do it very well. Now functional programming languages like Haskell start
showing tremendous promise for parrallel programming so he attacks them for
proving him wrong. And he really hates turing machines.
------
bct
I'm submitting this because it's entertaining, not because I think it's
informative or insightful. The guy's a kook.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How is your family organized? - thekhatribharat
Thinking of the family as a socio-economic unit, it's interesting to understand the roles different members play in a family and the different family organizational patterns in practice across the globe.<p>Keywords: Family Organization Chart, Family Life Strategy, Family Model, etc.<p>Reference: http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/350/350-093/350-093.html
======
quietthrow
You might get some answers if you pose your question better with specifics.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Where do developers find designers willing to work for equity? - citizenkeys
Where do developers find designers willing to work for equity instead of pay? I have no funding and my start-up needs a logo and better aesthetics.
======
MatthewPhillips
To get yourself off the ground I would recommend hiring someone on elance to
do the logo. You'll find someone that'll do a good job for $100-$150.
I doubt you'll find someone who'll do it for equity when most startups fail
unless you can really sell them that yours won't.
------
tudorizer
Design can be subjective so be sure to find someone who's on the same
wavelength with you.
Share your idea and I'm sure there will be some people who think it's cool.
Don't take it too hard if a lot of designers say "no". We're a moody bunch ;)
Also, maybe this will help: <http://www.builditwith.me/>
------
bitchomper
Logos can be fun to make, so maybe have a competition and the winner gets a
year free services from your startup and credit on the about us page.
I'd design for that.. But I'd have to know more about the startup to make
something relevant.
------
ptbello
You could join dribbble <http://dribbble.com/site/about>
------
staunch
Use 99designs for the logo and mimic the aesthetics of a well designed site
yourself.
------
pdelgallego
Try <http://forrst.com>
------
eande
if you can't convince someone for equity you can try 99designs.com. I had good
success with it and a fair price tag.
------
stray
A support group for masochists?
~~~
brudgers
Which meets in the back of a rutabaga truck.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Top improvements for PHP developers - JerryH
http://www.jeremyhutchings.com/2010/11/top-10-improvements-for-php-developers.html
======
TamDenholm
I like the points about using php for logic instead of mysql, I've been doing
that for years because I prefer to always do the heavy lifting in php which I
know better than SQL.
I always felt it was against best practices though, but now I won't worry
about it so much.
~~~
JerryH
One of the PHP devs who is also at Facebook suggested I do it that way, so I
don't worry too much either!
------
harisenbon
While interesting, if you haven't read the original article, most of the
points lose their meaning.
[http://blogs.sitepoint.com/2010/11/19/mysql-mistakes-php-
dev...](http://blogs.sitepoint.com/2010/11/19/mysql-mistakes-php-developers/)
Also, aren't most PHPers using frameworks (like CakePHP or Symphony) now
instead of raw-coding PHP? I can imagine this being useful for dealing with
small or legacy systems, but I haven't had to write a raw SQL statement in
almost a year now.
~~~
JerryH
Indeed, most of the time I use codeigniter, though I was focusing on "where"
you do the logic, opposed to just how.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
E.W. Scripps Buys Podcast Company Stitcher - swilliams
http://www.wsj.com/articles/e-w-scripps-buys-podcast-company-stitcher-1465239600
======
Dramatize
Doesn't seem like a big exit?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Getting A Better View - fallentimes
http://ticketstumbler.com/new-stuff/2009/03/29/getting-a-better-view/
======
paulgb
What I really find remarkable was that all 25,000 images were collected by
three guys with day jobs, in one season.
<http://seatdata.com/html/home/faq.htm>
<http://seatdata.com/html/home/adventures.htm>
~~~
fallentimes
Agreed. Their $10 membership is truly a bargain.
~~~
silentOpen
I hope they have a licensing deal with TicketStumbler.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Lemon Parser Generator - znpy
http://www.sqlite.org/src/doc/trunk/doc/lemon.html
======
haxiomic
Lemon is great. I used it to develop a browser based GLSL parser[0]. I spent
ages working with existing javascript parser generators and kept running into
walls with syntax and performance until I settled on porting Lemon.
I ported the core parser to haxe rather than straight javascript which means
it can be used to build dependancy free parsers for python, java, c++, php
(and any other haxe-supported[1] language)
I've only ported the LALR portion of the parser - the data tables are still
generated by the c version of lemon. Although I haven't wrapped it up in a
self-contained project, if you want to do something similar have a look at the
gh repo[2]. I've not documented anything, but if someone finds this and is
interested in building a cross-platform parser with a similar method feel free
to get in touch and I'll give you a guide on using the code. If there's enough
interest I'll build it out into something self-contained and easy to use.
[0] [http://haxiomic.github.io/haxe-glsl-
parser/](http://haxiomic.github.io/haxe-glsl-parser/)
[1] [http://haxe.org/manual/introduction-what-is-
haxe.html](http://haxe.org/manual/introduction-what-is-haxe.html)
[2] [https://github.com/haxiomic/haxe-glsl-
parser/tree/master/too...](https://github.com/haxiomic/haxe-glsl-
parser/tree/master/tools/parser-generator)
~~~
hobo_mark
what kind of limitations did you find in the JavaScript ones?
~~~
haxiomic
There were a few aims I wanted to meet:
\- Stick as closely as possible to the GLSL specification by using the
reference grammar with minimal modification
\- Produce a haxe version of the parser so I could do some haxe-compile-time
magic with it
Haxe is fairly similar to javascript so I tried altering PEG.js to spit out
haxe. The result was a 9000 line file which it turns out was too big to
compile. ANTLR looked promising but it appeared to be a bit too much to work
create a haxe port of the runtime.
Lemon was minimalistic and had a simple syntax which was fairly close to the
syntax of the reference grammar. The core parser is only about 300 lines[0]
and everything else is in data tables[1] which are generated by the lemon
command line tool.
[0] [https://github.com/haxiomic/haxe-glsl-
parser/blob/master/gls...](https://github.com/haxiomic/haxe-glsl-
parser/blob/master/glsl/parse/Parser.hx)
[1] [https://github.com/haxiomic/haxe-glsl-
parser/blob/master/gls...](https://github.com/haxiomic/haxe-glsl-
parser/blob/master/glsl/parse/Tables.hx)
------
fizixer
So where does this lie on the antlr, Allen Short's parsley, PEG, spectrum?
(very loosely speaking)
And how does it relate to the issues discusseed in Haberman's articles [0],
[1], [2]? which can be considered a good survey of this field (although I'm
open to other surveys if anyone can point out).
Also intersting (Terence Parr's talk, ANTLR creator) [3], Allen Short's talk
[4].
[0] [http://blog.reverberate.org/2013/07/ll-and-lr-parsing-
demyst...](http://blog.reverberate.org/2013/07/ll-and-lr-parsing-
demystified.html)
[1] [http://blog.reverberate.org/2013/08/parsing-c-is-
literally-u...](http://blog.reverberate.org/2013/08/parsing-c-is-literally-
undecidable.html)
[2] [http://blog.reverberate.org/2013/09/ll-and-lr-in-context-
why...](http://blog.reverberate.org/2013/09/ll-and-lr-in-context-why-parsing-
tools.html)
[3]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8p1voEiu8Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8p1voEiu8Q)
[4]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5X3ljCOFSY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5X3ljCOFSY)
~~~
SQLite
I wrote lemon in the late 1980's on a Sun4, while a graduate student. There
was also a program called "lime" that generated an LL(1) parser, but I've long
since lost that code.
Lemon was intended as a yacc-replacement. The advantages of lemon over yacc
are that lemon has a less error-prone syntax (it uses symbolic names rather
than $1, $2, etc), and that lemon generates a reentrant and thread-safe
parser. (At the time, yacc/bison parsers were neither reentrant nor thread-
safe. I don't know if that has been fixed in the intervening decades.)
Lemon has always been open source. But it languished with little attention for
10 years until I used it to generate the parser for SQLite. Then suddenly
people started to notice and use it.
Lemon does not have a separate version control system. The source code to
Lemon (a single file of C plus a template file for the generated parser) are
part of the SQLite source tree.
~~~
code4life
Yes, bison now is both, reentrant, thread-safe and supports push parsing. I
helped implement the push parser support many years ago with the help of the
Bison development team.
------
seiji
If you want to see the complete SQLite SQL grammar that gets passed to Lemon,
check out
[http://www.sqlite.org/cgi/src/artifact/f599aa5e871a4933](http://www.sqlite.org/cgi/src/artifact/f599aa5e871a4933)
It's pretty easy to read once you understand the file format (basically for
each "line": [parser stuff] { C code using results of parsing })
------
urand48
I love lemon, and used it to implement a simple configuration file language
that my customers loved.
The advantages for me -- especially vs yacc -- were:
\- easy of use / great documentation
\- clear & customizable syntax error messages
\- thread safety (no statics)
\- no memory leaks / support for C++ destructors
\- generated code runs cleanly under valgrind
------
sarahprobono
I've used Lemon before for a compilers class at Uni. I was using yacc before,
and can say that the Lemon syntax is much more pleasant to work with.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
$25 + Homeles Shelter + Hard Work = American Dream - harrisreynolds
http://www.scratchbeginnings.com/
======
RiderOfGiraffes
Already posted: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=462786>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
My "app": Free, balanced, multi-purpose NDA form [pdf], with curator's notes - dctoedt
http://www.ontechnologylaw.com/2010/08/precut-nda/
======
dctoedt
[FROM OP:] This was a side project; it's the first of what I hope will be a
series of "read, sign, and go" baseline contract forms and curator's notes,
available under a _Creative Commons_ license. Comments and other feedback are
welcome, especially suggestions for other types of contract that are needed in
the community.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Absolute Easiest Way to Debug Node.js – With VS Code - yannikyeo
https://itnext.io/the-absolute-easiest-way-to-debug-node-js-with-vscode-2e02ef5b1bad
======
paulirish
The author linked to a post of mine for debugging Node with Chrome DevTools I
agree that it's a little frustrating. But a few months ago, the `ndb` project
launched with a phenomenally better user experience for this:
[https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/ndb](https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/ndb)
It has child processes support, easy Ctrl-R hotkey to restart your node,
breakpoints can be placed anywhere, and nice default blackboxing of node
internals. Worth a spin.
~~~
emilsedgh
Read the article and came back to mention `ndb`. Cannot emphasis how easy it
is to debug with it.
If you're using node, do yourself a favor and `npx ndb` next time you wanna
debug something.
------
devnill
While VS Code is a great IDE, a lot of this article is simply untrue. Node has
had an interactive debugger (and corresponding API) for years.
Prior to --inspect, --debugger gave developers the abilities to step through
code and to jump into a REPL to examine and manipulate the application state.
Beyond this, there were tools like node inspector([https://github.com/node-
inspector/node-inspector](https://github.com/node-inspector/node-inspector))
which provided a chrome inspector-like tool.
On top of that, these tools adhere to the chrome debugger API
([https://chromedevtools.github.io/devtools-
protocol/](https://chromedevtools.github.io/devtools-protocol/)) which
provides the ability to dump comprehensive data like the memory graph for
those wishing to make profiling tools.
------
chrisparton1991
> Unlike JavaScript in the browser, or Java with a powerful IDE like IntelliJ,
> you can’t just set breakpoints everywhere
I'm using IntelliJ to set breakpoints everywhere in a Node application at this
very moment. It's super easy to set up, you just create a Node.js run
configuration and hit the debug button.
~~~
np_tedious
How does this work with transpilation? Say I have typescript or a just
different js than the end build, how does the debugger know which line to put
the breakpoint on?
Does the run config need to be something more structured than "run this gulp
command"?
~~~
mikewhy
Pretty sure all you need is source maps.
~~~
chrisparton1991
Yep, source maps do the trick.
~~~
np_tedious
late response, but i just got stop debugging for a typescript/node app set up
in webstorm. far easier than i (and this article) had built it up to be. the
sourcemap stuff was actually already taken care of, it was the addition of
`$NODE_DEBUG_OPTION` to the `ts-node-dev` command that did the trick
------
Waterluvian
ROS distributes robot concerns across dozens of nodes on a robot, possibly
thousands of nodes in a fleet. Many of these are Python. It's been a joy using
vscode to connect to a live running robot and the master server and remote
debug a bunch of nodes at the same time.
------
brian_herman
[https://nodejs.org/api/debugger.html](https://nodejs.org/api/debugger.html)
------
keyle
This is just highly biased. It's just as easy with IntelliJ and doesn't
require any more fiddling around than this.
------
tluyben2
Honest question: is there anyone here who uses Node that didn't figure this
out themselves with VS Code or other editors in a few minutes? And then a lot
of the info is (as already mentioned here as well) not true; this is nothing
new nor special.
------
mlevental
is there a way to debug promises in any of these debuggers? i.e. get a promise
to resolve when stopped at a breakpoint?
~~~
giobox
The “Smart Step” feature they added to the debugger a while back might be what
you are looking for.
> [https://code.visualstudio.com/updates/vApril#_smart-code-
> ste...](https://code.visualstudio.com/updates/vApril#_smart-code-stepping)
~~~
mlevental
no this isn't it. i'm saying i want to be able to "run" a promise while
stopped at breakpoint
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The ‘Global Order’ myth: teary-eyed nostalgia as cover for U.S. hegemony - ahmedsaladin
http://artofpolitics.ml/political-philosophy/the-global-order-myth-teary-eyed-nostalgia-as-cover-for-u-s-hegemony/
======
teslabox
This is quite a piece...
> During the Age of Trump, Year One, a single word has emerged to capture the
> essence of the prevailing cultural mood: resistance. Words matter, and the
> prominence of this particular term illuminates the moment in which we find
> ourselves.
Are there any responses to the points raised? I'm thinking about breaking my
personal protocol and _asking something on facebook_. I've a few friends who
fashion themselves members of 'la resistance' [1]...
[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LonKGuS9uuQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LonKGuS9uuQ)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
HP donates a hefty server to homebrew WebOS Internals Group - amock
http://www.precentral.net/hp-donates-server-homebrew-webos-internals-group
======
benologist
Very cool of them, especially with no strings attached.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
PayPal Launches In-App Payment Library For Android - Concours
http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/19/paypal-launches-in-app-payment-library-for-android/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29
======
mike-cardwell
Excellent. It's damn annoying having to give Google 30% of every sale on the
Android market place. Much better to just make an app free on the market place
and then make people pay through paypal to unlock features.
~~~
eli
Allowing users to charge an app to their existing cell phone bill might
actually be worth 30%.
------
gchucky
This article doesn't say it, but "developers will dish up 1.9 percent to 2.9
percent of the sale, plus 30 cents based on PayPal's tiered pricing structure
for e-commerce, or a 5 percent plus 5 cents per each transaction fee for
micropayments." (source: <http://www.cnet.com/8301-19736_1-20005327-251.html>)
------
endlessvoid94
FINALLY.
Although, watch this feature already included in the next release. That would
be interesting.
It sure would be nice to be able to charge to the user's existing phone bill,
though.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Bloom Box: What is it and how does it work? - chanux
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2010/0222/Bloom-Box-What-is-it-and-how-does-it-work
======
pbhjpbhj
From the linked article:
> _It’s a collection of fuel cells – skinny batteries – that use oxygen and
> fuel to create electricity with no emissions.
Fuel cells are the building blocks of the Bloom Box. They’re made of sand that
is baked into diskette-sized ceramic squares and painted with green and black
ink. Each fuel cell has the potential to power one light bulb. The fuel cells
are stacked into brick-sized towers sandwiched with metal alloy plates.
The fuel cell stacks are housed in a refrigerator-sized unit – the Bloom Box.
Oxygen is drawn into one side of the unit, and fuel (fossil-fuel, bio-fuel, or
even solar power can be used) is fed into the other side. The two combine
within the cell and produce a chemical reaction that creates energy with no
burning, no combustion, and no power lines._
So you feed in fuel and oxygen and it outputs electricity. Wow!?!
How do they get away with claiming there are no emissions if you're using
fossil fuel to power it? As presented here it smacks of fraud.
~~~
andrewcooke
probably not fraud, just a stupid reporter. from this and the other article
it's pretty clear that this is some kind of catalysed oxidation. it's
effectively "burning" the fuel in a way that efficiently generates
electricity, which is neat, but means that carbon dioxide will be one of the
byproducts (and this was mentioned in the earlier article). so that part of
the article ("no emissions") is simply wrong (note that it's not a direct
quote - it's background from the journalist, who was probably copying from
info on a hydrogen fuel cell, not understanding that hydro _carbon_ fuelled
cells burn carbon and so generate carbon dioxide).
------
teilo
Horribly bad reporting. Again, the "no emissions" claim, a claim that seems to
originate entirely in the mind of the reporters, because Boom is not making
this claim. "Low emissions" yes. All fuel cells produce emissions. Just less
than combustion for the same energy output.
------
Roridge
It almost feels like it should be a hoax. The Bloom Box appears to be genius
and has massive funding and backing, but the web site is so cryptic and it has
come out of no where, I keep thinking someone is going to say "gotcha" at any
moment.
~~~
tdoggette
That's my default position on something like this. I'm waiting for someone who
knows what they're talking about to say "yeah, this does what it says on the
tin."
------
ugh
In what way is this better than or different from micro-CHP
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_combined_heat_and_power>)?
------
ableal
This is about as fact-free as the original TV puff piece. The slashdot
discussion yesterday produced more informative comments; e.g. this one is
worth reading:
[http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1559256&cid...](http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1559256&cid=31236992)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Resisting the urge to add more features, just because you can - e1ven
http://inessential.com/?comments=1&postid=3398
======
wensing
Adding features is not the mistake; the mistake is adding features 'just
because you can'. Moreover, I can think of some wonderful products that have a
lot of features, but they went through a design process wherein the creators
knew how to add depth, and consequently they're still usable; too many people
add features thinking only in terms of horizontal exposure--i.e. every new
feature requires a new button, rather than in depth--i.e. new features get
attached to the product's existing skeleton, and appear only when they're
needed (and promptly disappear when they're not).
To go one step further: I don't think a product can have too many well-
implemented features. How many features should a pencil have? A fighter jet?
How many features would be too many for the pencil? How many features would be
too many for the fighter jet? Raw feature count doesn't bother me a bit;
features that get in the way (noise) are what frustrate me.
~~~
e1ven
That's a great example, and illustrates exactly why I disagree with you ;)
If you design things to be simple and expandable, you don't NEED to keep
adding features in order to give the functionality people have.
A Pencil has a certain set of features. It can write, it can erase.
It has other things it can do because of its design- It can act as a piece of
wood, so it can be used to push things on the table, or used as Lincoln Logs..
But they don't need to ADD anything to support these uses.
You can decide tomorrow to use a pencil for things the developers never
thought of- You can use it to trace leads, or use it to build a fort. You can
use it to hold two things apart from one another, or use the eraser to hold
pins..
These aren't features that needed to be added. No adjustments to the pencil
are necessary to support fort-building. They're new and clever ways of using
what's already there.
THAT's what you want to encourage. Find ways to create services that can be
used in ways you never imagined.
APIs are a great example of that, but there's more that can be done. Make
thing simple. Let people add their own uses for things and they'll do amazing
things.
~~~
bls
How do you explain the fact that the pencils I buy today are a lot more
sophisticated, more comfortable, and have more features (refillable lead,
advancing the lead via shaking) than the pencils I bought 10 years ago? The
cost of a simple pencil is like $0.05. The pencils I buy are almost $10.00
each + lead + erasers. I like the $10.00 pencil guys' business plan a lot more
than the $0.05 pencil guys' plan.
~~~
e1ven
I have nothing against adding features that make sense, and are refinements of
the workflow.
Adding a comfortable pad to a pencil makes it easier to use, and is certainly
worth a bit extra to people. Adding replaceable erasers adds more, and so on.
Those are potentially useful features, and they don't get in the way of people
using the pencil.
This is the sort of refining that should always go on. How can we make things
easier for our users. How can we streamline their workflow.
Part of the problem in adding feature comes when you start adding features
which make the base case harder. When users start to look at the vast sums of
things that CAN be done, and you lose the simplicity of the tool.
Another problem is that adding features allows people to hack things, in ways
that are more complex than they should be, and cause user-frustration.
Let me give you an example-
There was a small company I knew that kept its data in a series of excel
files. They were small, and it was a quick and easy to keep track of what they
were doing.
As the company started to grow, they started needing more and more complex
reports on the data, and were running into the limitations of what they could
easily do.
They started working with heavy scripting in Excel, using VBA scripts to copy
data from one sheet to another, and to replicate it to backup excel files.
Eventually they had a mess of files talking to one another, doing CSV exports,
then parsing them and creating new files, and the like. It worked.. Kinda..
But it was kludgey, and complex.
The problem was that they kept adding new features to their excel documents,
rather than accepting that excel was Great at what it did [1], but it wasn't
the right solution for them any more.
Eventually, if I recall, they finally got it all moved over to a series of
Access databases, which made things a lot nicer.
Could Microsoft add features to Excel to make it easier for them to keep
pushing it? Sure..
Should they? In this case, probably not. The features you adding need to make
sense for the tool.
[1] For the sake of discussion, anyway ;)
------
juwo
submitted separately
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: QA site for clothing? - lsiunsuex
Curious if there's a QA site for clothing. A place to ask questions about specific garments I guess.<p>I'm looking for a hoodie I can wear all day but is heavy enough / warm enough that I can keep it on when I pop outside for a quick smoke or shovel snow or etc...<p>Winter is upon us and its a pain to put on a coat to be outside for just 5-10 minutes. Obviously, if it's blizzard conditions (in Buffalo, NY) going to opt for a full coat, but "most" days, just something to cut the wind / keep warm.<p>Otherwise - anyone have any recommendations for a nice, heavy hoodie? Solid color or small graphic is fine. Preferably full zip.
======
mtmail
[https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/](https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/)
specifically
[https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/search?q=author%3...](https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/search?q=author%3AAutoModerator+Simple+Questions&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/femalefashionadvice/](https://www.reddit.com/r/femalefashionadvice/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/femalefashionadvice/comments/9na9do...](https://www.reddit.com/r/femalefashionadvice/comments/9na9do/daily_questions_october_11_2018/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Canada's top privacy professionals are doing an iAMA tomorrow - cageek
https://privasectech.com/2015/04/canadian-privacy-iama/
======
usr12345
I've never heard of them. They must be good.
~~~
PeterWhittaker
Yeah, seems a bit slashvertisy. I expected to see Michael Geist or one or two
former information/privacy commissioners, e.g., Ann Cavoukian.
These are primarily consultants and lawyers whose day-to-day job is selling
privacy advice. Nothing wrong with that, of course, just something folks ought
to know.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
US government sues Edward Snowden over his new memoir 'Permanent Record' - OrgNet
https://news.yahoo.com/im-not-asking-pardon-edward-124317097.html
======
OrgNet
oops, dupe of those:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20999537](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20999537)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20999387](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20999387)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
President Obama: Prison rape is no joke - theandrewbailey
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/president-obama-prison-rape-is-no-joke-124157225836.html
======
Fjolsvith
I did over 10 years in prison, both state and federal, and never was an inmate
raped at any of the facilities I was housed.
Inmates joke about it a lot, but its just not perceived as cool, and besides,
with DNA testing now available, who wants to get a sex charge _inside prison_?
Edit: Also, everyone in the federal system gets their DNA sampled and placed
in a national DNA database, regardless of the crime they committed. So,
federal prisoners are much more aware that they could be identified as the
perpetrator of a rape.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
CCleaner Compromised to Distribute Malware for Almost a Month - wglb
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/ccleaner-compromised-to-distribute-malware-for-almost-a-month/
======
ColinWright
The discussion is substantial, and over here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15274339](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15274339)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Hacking Evolution:Mitochondrial Gene Transfer by SENS Research Foundation - MMTP
http://nar.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2016/09/04/nar.gkw756
======
MMTP
For almost a decade the SENS Research Foundation has helped to fund research
by various groups on the allotopic expression of mitochondrial genes, a way to
both cure mitochondrial disease and, more importantly, prevent mitochondrial
DNA damage from contributing to the aging process. Allotopic expression works
by creating backup copies of important mitochondrial genes in the cell
nucleus, altered so that the resulting proteins can make their way back to the
mitochondria where they are needed.
Finally the long awaited peer reviewed paper showing the transfer of Stable
nuclear expression of ATP8 and ATP6 genes has been published and is a long
anticipated proof of concept of one of the key concepts of the SENS repair of
aging approaches. We are reaching the point where hacking human biology and
aging is becoming a reality.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Panda3d full featured open source python 3d engine - 1.5.0 released - treeform
http://panda3d.org/
======
treeform
I am using this for my game <http://aff2aw.com> there is plant of commercial
games that use it too: <http://play.toontown.com/webHome.php>
<http://apps.pirates.go.com/pirates/v3/welcome> <http://code3d.com/>
<http://www.msapoliceline.com/thermal_enforcer.html>
<http://aff133.games.is/product/product=795>
------
wagnerius
good work ! the engine is getting better and better...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Don't try this at home. How credit card arbitrage funded my first company. - jaf12duke
http://www.humbledmba.com/dont-try-this-at-home-how-credit-card-arbitra
======
jessriedel
> For some personal background, I do come from a financially stable family. My
> parents could have covered the $16k to help me follow my dreams. But I
> didn't ask them (and neither did they offer). The financial pressure and
> responsibility of my startup was to be fully on my shoulders.
Even though he wasn't accepting money from his parents, he was implicitly
using their financial security to shoulder this risk. If everything had really
gone to hell, they would have helped him back on his feet. (Much like some
banks could take huge risks knowing the government would probably bail them
out, even if there wasn't an explicit agreement or exchange of money
beforehand.) Other people, like maybe his friend, don't have such a financial
safety net and so can't take on those kinds of risks.
~~~
bradleyland
Credit card debt is, in most states, entirely dischargable in bankruptcy. So
while it would be unethical to take on all this debt specifically with the
purposes of squandering it, the CC companies are extending you an unsecured
loan. It's really not all that bad of an idea, provided you can survive a
bankruptcy and a few years of exceptionally poor credit.
~~~
peteretep
> while it would be unethical to take on all this debt specifically with the
> purposes of squandering it
Actually, in the UK, if they can prove it, it's _illegal_. Be surprised if
that wasn't the same in the West.
~~~
bradleyland
I actually worked for a US Bankruptcy Trustee in Florida for about three
years. It is illegal here as well.
------
_delirium
Back in the mid-2000s, when money-market accounts were paying around 5%, and
there were a ton of promotional 0%-balance credit-card offers, people from
fatwallet used to use the term "app-o-rama" for this trick of applying for a
_ton_ of 0%-balance credit cards all on one day, so that they'd all be
approved before the credit score was updated. Then, there were ways to
essentially extract the balance as a cash advance w/o it being coded as a cash
advance. A few cards (like Citibank's) would let you do a "balance transfer"
via a check made out to you, and then you could transfer that balance to
others and repeat. The end result was that you could take out a quick $50k or
so in credit, put it in a 5% money-market account, and pay it all back 12
months later when the 0%-rate intro promotion would be expiring, netting $2500
interest.
You could also start a business with the cash, but that's a bit higher-risk...
------
scarmig
tl;dr: "And, so I raised my money through credit card arbitrage: $22k across
14 different cards. So, yeah. That's about it... For me, it worked out both
terribly and perfectly. The terribly part is that our startup failed, and I
never paid myself enough to pay the cards back. At the end of Openvote, I was
saddled with all this credit card debt, plus opportunity cost loss from no
salary, plus no job. It was a tough time."
It's a lesson in what not to do, as the author acknowledges. Though he seems
sanguine enough and has got back up on his feet.
Then again, I think there are easier ways to learn it's not a good idea to
rack up five figures of credit card debt on top of existing debt and no
savings... but whatevs.
------
decklin
Is this actually considered arbitrage?
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrage>
While the 4th credit card company he applies to has imperfect information
about what his credit is (at that point) actually worth, it seems like all the
deals are independent.
~~~
veyron
True credit card arbitrage, which is what helped me bootstrap, involves real
accretion of money
In my case, it was playing the us mint. They sell 250 $1 coins for 250 with
free shipping. Fidelity Amex card gives 2% cash back. So I would order tens of
thousands of coins and use the coins to pay the credit card build. 1K
roundtrip = $20, and it was pretty scalable. Nowadays there is a limit
~~~
2arrs2ells
Nowadays you can't buy $1 coins with credit cards at all. Those were the
days...
------
nostrademons
I went for the opposite tack when I founded my startup - live with my parents
and do all the coding myself - and I would highly, highly recommend that over
the credit card approach. My startup also failed. I also felt it was well-
worth it for the experience and skills gained. I also found I loved startups
and want to get back into them again.
The difference is that when my startup failed, I had money in the bank, no
debt, and no particular time limit for finding another source of income. And
that gave me options, and options gave me negotiating power. I was able to
turn down offers that I felt would be career dead-ends or wouldn't teach me
much, and would've even been able to found another startup immediately if the
right opportunity hadn't come up. Instead of working 6 months on boring
consulting jobs, I was able to spend that 6 months taking a job that taught me
things (which has turned into 2.5 years, because the job is _still_ teaching
me things).
------
waterside81
This is crazy - crazy interesting and crazy nuts. The idea of arbitraging has
always be fascinating to me. I've had an idea for currency arbitrage in the
travel industry, but never done anything other than back of the envelope
calculations. Feel free to take the idea:
Tour operators publish their prices for the upcoming year's trips. They
publish them usually in one currency, sometimes in two, rarely in three.
They're beholden to these prices because they publish brochures and distribute
them to places like Flight Centre.
So what you do is become a wholesaler of a bunch of tour operators' trips
(this is easy to aggregate, many have XML feeds that publish their inventory,
including pricing & availability). Then you use real-time exchange rates to
figure out which currency it's best to sell in to a customer and then buy the
product from the operator using another currency. For example, say the US &
CAD dollars are at par when prices are published. If the US drops a lot
compared to the CAD, you sell the trip to your customer in CAD but purchase
the trip from the operator in US.
The beauty is that operators will pay you a commission (usually 20-25%) on top
of whatever you gain from the currency arbitrage. There's some complexity in
becoming a legal wholesaler and being able to accept multiple currencies etc.
At the very least it makes for some interesting math.
~~~
JacobAldridge
And then you get a client like me, who points out that the price in Euros in
10% cheaper than the price in AUD because of currency fluctuations in that
period, and I would like to pay in Euros please.
The travel agency (in Australia) weren't able to do that for me, however - so
it seems their agreement was in a single currency as well. I'm not sure how
hard I could have pushed it, because the dates ended up not quite working
anyway.
~~~
waterside81
Ha, yes, but you'd be in the minority of travellers who think like that. But I
know of tour operators who refuse to allow this. If you're an Aussie resident,
you have to pay AUD. If you're in the EU, you have to pay in EUR etc.
------
benjohnson
Kudos for him _knowing_ that he was using his CC to fund his startup. I made
the mistake of not realizing that I was using my CC to fund my business - I
was using them for food, rent, and other things.
A lot of 'regular' businesses fall into the trap of building a lot of short-
term debt that isn't really obvious - owing their suppliers, owing their
employees, and owing the tax man. When a small hiccup hurts their cash flow,
the whole stack of cards comes crumbling down.
Or so I've been told.... :)
------
ryanmarsh
I tried this with my first startup. It worked, and my wife and I wound up with
a nice little online magazine that did pretty well. Then I got cocky, I tried
to do it again but wasn't as careful as the first time. Now I'm digging myself
out from under $60k in CC debt. Now I live by 3 before 1, make 3 before you
spend 1. We'll see how that works out.
~~~
pointyhat
I did exactly the same, except to get a contract outfit off the ground. I paid
off about $60k in total (in GBP) over 10 years. I worked out that in total I
made about 20% more than salaried people over the time. It definitely wasn't
worth it.
------
larrik
Kevin Smith used a similar technique to fund his first movie ( _Clerks_ ).
Personally, I think funding a movie with this technique is WAY crazier than a
startup.
------
nalidixic
Did you ever do a credit report with all those cards? It would be interesting
to see how having 14 cards with balances affected your score :P
------
nikcub
In most other countries and with some cards the introductory low or zero
interest rate is only on purchases and not on cash advances or withdrawls.
There are a few ways to get around that. You are probably breaking money
laundering laws if you do, though - so, disclaimer.
Find a friend or family member who has a small store and merchant account, or
setup your own merchant account in a company name, or put up an item on ebay
with a buy it now. Create one or a number of fake products with realistic
looking prices (some merchant terminals let you enter an arbitrary price).
Buy it with your new card and kick back the cash, minus the transaction fee.
You can then just keep bumping the balance to a new card when the introductory
period is up - just pay the minimum payments (which are usually very low).
Juggling to new cards with introductory rates is a lot better than applying
for many cards at once. It just looks like you got sick of your last bank for
poor service etc.
------
catshirt
i'm not really well versed in funding or business operations, but this just
sounds stupid.
~~~
tomjen3
Generally everybody says you shouldn't start a start up on credit cards.
What he went for is the advanced version where you can get free money if you
stack the cards correctly. It is difficult to do, but companies and financial
investors do it pretty often.
------
SurfScore
I feel like this is one of those "how to rob a bank" lessons that you find
sometimes from old-time thieves. It shows you how to do something to take
advantage of the system, definitely a hacker thing to do, but at the same time
its very dangerous and often unnecessary. More than one person is reading this
article and thinking "hmm..." I think this puts a lot of the "put the house on
the line" risk back into startups. Say what you will about the time and effort
starting a business takes, in this day and age of venture capital, it is
almost stupid to get into that situation. Nonetheless, people have done
crazier things, overextended themselves even thinner, and had no contingency
plan, and become billionaires. Its all part of the game
~~~
nirvana
Imagine he had $50k in the bank. So he didn't need to use the cards. He takes
the $20k out of the bank at the beginning of the year, puts it into the
startup, which fails within the year.
What's the difference between the two situations? In one, he spent however
amount of time earning the $20k before he put it into the startup, in the
other he spends however amount of time working off the credit card debt after
the startup fails.
The real difference between these two is the interest rate on the credit
cards, and that's about it. In both cases he has to work to earn the money he
put into his startup, though it might be more painful to do it after failure
than before.
[I think its amusing that this comment has been down voted. I wasn't
disagreeing with the person I'm responding to, didn't say anything offensive,
and offered a different way of looking at things that seemed to be missing.]
------
nhangen
I don't get why everyone is hating on the author for his usage of credit
cards. It's not the first time I've heard a story like this, and it's
certainly not going to be the last.
I did something similar with an Amex card, and used it to bootstrap the
development I couldn't perform myself. As long as you manage the risk and plan
accordingly, it's not as bad of a play as it's made out to be.
Also, the author never said anything about bankruptcy, and he seems a man of
his word. I didn't get the impression he was going to burn through the cash
and then file bankruptcy if it didn't work. In fact, he didn't, and it didn't.
When you have a dream, and you believe in it, you do everything you can to
make it work.
------
pavel_lishin
> Learn how to code so you don't need to hire programmers.
Yeah, you can just get one of those "Learn how to Program in 30 Days!" books,
and it's just as good as hiring someone who does it professionally.
This whole post reads like a big "Don't Do What Donny Don't Does" book.
------
0x12
For a software startup it is perfectly possible to get off the ground with an
outlay <$100 and some of your time. I really don't see the need for dramatic
and totally silly strategies like these.
Using one hole to plug another never was a really good idea.
~~~
atakan_gurkan
I think you missed the part where he says they had no coders as founders, and
also the part(s) where he says "don't do this".
------
eatm0rewaffles
Wow, a very pleasant read! For someone who was seriously considering doing
this I have to admit your perspective is quite admirable.
The only question I am left with is how much did you end up settling for or
how long did it take to eventually pay it all off?
------
aklein
Back when I graduated college in 2002 into the tech bust and kept getting
credit card offers to "transfer my balances at zero interest for six months",
I took a bunch of zero-interest cash advances and put them into the ING
savings account yielding 3-4% at the time. I did it for between 6 months and a
year and netted a few hundred bucks before closing them all out. I wouldn't
recommend it because a) it was more headache than it was worth to keep track
of payments, and b) who knows what it did to my credit score. It was
definitely an arb, but probably not operationally worth it...
------
gee_totes
I worked with someone who financed a feature film on 67 credit cards. He
didn't make his investment back at all, and had to disappear for awhile, as he
was saddled with about $300,000 in credit card debt. But when the credit card
companies did catch up with him, years later, he was able to settle his whole
debt for about 30k.
Running from the credit card companies ruined his credit, of course, but I
wonder if the author of the article would have gotten a better rate of return
if he had just hid from the credit card companies, waiting for them to get
desperate enough to settle.
~~~
wanorris
The opportunity cost involved in "hiding" might make this a bad deal though.
The author was involved in doing above-board consulting work and planning his
next startup.
I would expect that taking legal employment under your own name makes you
relatively findable. Worse, recruiting investors for a startup is likely to be
much more difficult if they perform due diligence on you and discover that you
have a history of running away from creditors.
Of course, even worse than that is that the author planned his moves carefully
in advance. While running off when you owe too much money isn't the best move,
_planning_ to run away from your debts might well be prosecuted as fraud.
------
astrofinch
"My friends that deferred their startup dreams for high-paying consulting jobs
got no closer to learning how to build a startup and, worse, became accustomed
to the life that a high salary affords."
It seems to me that the simplest way to solve this problem is to keep a very
close eye on your standard of living. Personally, I buy most of my food from
the dollar store and think of my summer internship savings as a "bankroll"
that I should gamble with carefully.
------
dolbz
Maybe I'm missing something but how is this even arbitrage? If you were just
putting the money into an interest bearing account and repaying before the
interest rate kicked in then yes it would be arbitrage (if you could even beat
the 3% fee) but that wasn't happening here.
The author was just taking the 0% rates and using them to fund his company
which didn't work out. There was never a guaranteed upside to this which is
what you would expect with arbitrage.
------
techiferous
"Learn how to code so you don't need to hire programmers."
That's the hidden gem. Only do this if you enjoy programming, though, because
it's hard work, _especially_ in the beginning. Expect a year or two to get
fluent, not a month or two.
But once you know how to program, you don't have to spend time finding scarce
developer talent, you don't have to spend time communicating requirements et
cetera, and most of all you don't have to pay them $X.
------
kevinpet
1\. This isn't arbitrage. Arbitrage has a specific meaning (profiting from
price disparities in the same item in different markets). This could be
described as a carry trade, but it's mostly just an inconvenient way to get a
business loan.
2\. This isn't even correct. It claims that you can get your credit score for
free, which is incorrect. When I notice one error, I suspect there are other
errors.
~~~
chris_gogreen
I get a free score from all 3 bureaus for free once a year.
~~~
foxit
No, you get a free credit _report_ from all 3 bureaus once a year. Getting
your score costs.
------
chris_gogreen
I think you are talking about moving balances between cards, sometimes called
floating. It might loosely be arbitrage if you use the cash back features to
think of the value of a dollar spent on one card being less than the other. If
3% cash back, spending one dollar on the card really only costs 97% of one
dollar, then pay it off with a normal 0% cash back card.
------
dholowiski
Wow... that takes balls. Getting 0% introductory rate credit cards, and taking
a cash advance... and then putting the cash in a bank account that pays
interest. Of course, if the business fails - as it did in the author's case -
then you're stuck with all of the debt and a broken credit record, but it's
all about taking risks right?
~~~
Duff
As long as you have the ability to start earning quickly and are smart about
it, you can get through that without breaking your credit record.
The key to dealing with credit cards is understanding the terms -- it's all
written down in a little document that nobody reads. In particular, you need
to understand precisely how each lender defines "default". "Default" == no
more 0%.
Also, this guy had the business networking chops required to jump into
consulting gigs immediately upon declaring failure. The exit strategy is
essential.
I did something similar to this with a house that I needed to get out of
quickly. I borrowed $52,000 over several cards and ended up using $40k. The
$12k was used as a pool to make the automatic payments from. End result? The
value of the home increased by $80k.
------
driverdan
This isn't arbitrage but it's a good article anyway.
I did something similar about 5 years ago but with "investing" the money in
HYIPs (high yield investment programs). I was woefully ignorant of how many of
these are scams (99.999%) but managed to make a decent return and not lose my
shirt.
I wouldn't recommend doing this to anyway. The risks are extremely high.
------
monochromatic
Arbitrage is not the same as borrowing money.
------
sneak
This is the second article I've read on HN in as many days from this blog that
ends every post with "my new company $x is going to change how the world does
$y"!
The title is also inaccurate linkbait.
I appreciate self-promotion as much as anyone, but I think this isn't the way
to go about doing it.
------
usaar333
Why did submitter take a cash advance? Typically, you can get 0% purchase APR.
The correct course of action is to cash advance the minimal amount you need
and pay for every purchase you make with your 0% cards. Would have saved this
guy a few hundred dollars.
------
unfed
Setup an Adwords campaign say $0.25 CPC. Funnel the traffic to a page where
you have Adsense ads paying $0.30 CPC. That's arbitrage for you. Not sure why
you guys using gold and CDS as examples on HN.
~~~
wesleyb
You're forgetting something: click through rate. Unless it's somewhere above
90% (in which case you're one hell of a marketer -- or you're paying for the
traffic), then you're essentially burning your money.
------
spokengent
For bonus points:
Find the credit cards affiliate program. Sign up to it, and use it. You might
get for example $50 commission, for signing up to a 0% credit card, if you use
your affiliate link.
~~~
cosgroveb
I don't think the fraud is really worth $50.
~~~
spokengent
Several affiliate networks explicitly allow you to use your own affiliate
links.
Also, if you're more concerned about it and want an easier way, use some
reward/cashback program website.
------
msutherl
One of my co-workers did this in the early 00's, but for the opposite reason:
to pay off $50k off capital gains task. Worked quite well for him.
~~~
usaar333
The IRS has pretty high convenience fees if you use a credit card (~2%). In
the higher interest early 00's, this might be worth it; today, not so much.
------
grayrest
I first heard of this in Bram Cohen's (bittorrent) PyCon keynote in 2004 (?).
He basically started bittorrent the company this way.
------
chris_gogreen
You forgot to talk about the part where you use arbitrage, you simply
described how to get lots of credit quickly...
------
nirvana
This isn't credit card arbitrage. Let me describe one idea for how Credit Card
Arbitrage could work.
You take out a bunch of credit cards, as he describes. Preferably ones with
zero interest for the first year, or 6 months. You extract as much cash from
them as you can. You put a chunk of that cash in the bank to make minimum
payments from, and then you put that cash into an asset that will return more
over the next year than the cards will charge.
[EDIT TO ADD: Want to clear up some confusion. In order to arbitrage interest
rates, you have to have whatever you buy return more than what you have to pay
for the money. There's one factor that people often forget when thinking about
interest rates, and that is inflation. Dollars spent to pay off a loan are
worth less than dollars you get at the beginning of the loan. This means, the
asset you put your money into, needs to return not only enough to cover the
interests & fees on the credit cards over the time period, but the monetary
inflation rate over the time period. Thus, something that is an inflation
hedge is beneficial. This is why I talk about gold below, and later I talk
about CDs and even stocks.]
I'd suggest buying gold, or gold miners, or if you're super sophisticated,
options on solid gold mining companies. (each of these has increasing leverage
to the price of gold.) But it doesn't have to be gold, it just has to be
something that is a "no brainer" way to earn a positive return above the rate
of the credit card interest.
This may be difficult, and in fact, it should be difficult, because if it were
easy the credit card companies would do it instead of loaning the money to
you.
Potentially, you could take the money from the credit card company and put it
into a CD at the very same bank. This works only if you really have "no
interest for one year". Buy a 9 month CD (or better yet a 10 month CD), and
then when it matures, pay off the credit card, and you get the interest from
the CD for free.
The thing that makes such arbitrage opportunities so valuable is that, because
the asset you're buying returns more than the cost of your money, you can
scale it up pretty much infinitely.
But this is where things get problematic if you don't cover your downside.
When the Bank of Japan was lending money at nearly zero interest, many banks
borrowed in japan, converted the money to other currencies, and then bought
treasuries of other countries. This is called the carry trade.
In fact, I wish I could start up a bank right now. I'd love to borrow money
from the Federal Reserve, which is loaning it out at almost nothing, and buy
the best bonds (along with some protective put options) I could find on the
market.
A company wants to borrow for capital expansion, it will pay a reasonable
interest rate-- say %6. The Federal Reserve is loaning at something like %1.
%5 profit, at the only risk of the bond (so protect it with a CDO.) It must be
great to be a bank.
If you have a startup you need to fund, and you can get a CD the interest
rates right now are about 1.15%. So, I think this doesn't work for arbitrage,
because while you may have "zero percent interest" there are going to be some
fees that will overwhelm that meager interest rate.
But, if you could get a CD that paid out %6, and could borrow at %1 (on the
"zero interest" plans) then you'd only need $400,000 in credit card debt in
order to raise $20,000 for your startup!
Realistically, credit card arbitrage doesn't really work too well. If you get
something with a higher rate of return, and you use borrowed money to buy it,
then that's really investing on margin and not really something you could call
"arbitrage". I'm sure it works for some people doing startups.... but isn't
really reproducible on a wide scale.
BY the way, if you want access to some of that federal reserve money at cheap
rates, at least some brokers are passing it along to their margin customers.
Then you can start looking for a solid high yielding company, borrow %50,
effectively doubling your yield... don't forget to buy some put options to
cover your long position in case it crashes.
~~~
feral
I don't think what you are talking about is arbitrage, either.
You are talking about using interest free loans from credit cards in order to
make a leveraged bet on the price of gold; that is not arbitrage.
If gold decreases in price - and its close to record highs, however you want
to intrepret that - you are taking a huge risk.
~~~
nirvana
Maybe I should have been more clear. What you're arbitraging is two rates of
return-- the interest rate of the loan, and the return of the investment. In
more conventional arbitrage, you're buying a commodity at one price in one
market and selling it at another price in another market at exactly the same
time. Here you're doing that, only the commodity is money. (Gold is money.)
You could substitute a foreign currency, or foreign bonds for gold in my
example, just as easily.
In that case, you'd be borrowing US dollars and buying, say, Greek Bonds. I
picked that example because greek bonds have a high rate of return. They're
also debt... you're getting debt in one market and selling it in another.
Greek Bonds obviously have risk. All arbitrage has risks, and those risks can
be huge. That the risk is huge doesn't make it any less arbitrage.
FWIW, I don't think gold is at a particularly high price. I think the dollar
and other currencies, which have been long over valued, are a little less
overvalued than they were. I don't price gold in dollars, I price dollars in
gold.
~~~
derobert
You're missing the key point of arbitrage: its risk-free.
Say you borrow $100k at 0% for 1 year. You then buy (at $1734/oz) ~57oz of
gold. Next year, you plan to sell it and pay off your $100k.
But you've taken a risk. If gold is only $1500/oz next year, you're going to
lose ~$13k. Of course, if its $2000/oz, you're going to make a nice profit.
You're speculating on the gold market. You could build a similar position with
gold futures, for example.
Arbitrage would be if you could take that $100k, and immediate buy gold in
USD, sell it in EUR, and then buy USD with those EUR and wind up with >$100k.
Then you're not taking any risk, because you can set up all those transactions
practically at the same time (and the markets are liquid enough you know the
prices you'll be able to buy/sell at).
~~~
2arrs2ells
While the academic definition of arbitrage requires it to be risk-free, in
practice there is always risk of some form.
If you're buying gold in SF for $100 and selling it in NYC for $101, you carry
the risk that the price will move while you're executing the trade.
If you're doing the yen carry trade (borrowing yen, and lending dollars), you
carry the currency risk.
If you're taking 0% credit card loans and buying CDs, you carry the default
risk on the CDs (mitigated, of course, by the FDIC).
That said, I agree with your general point - buying gold with a 0% loan
carries so much risk that it's really just a leveraged investment, not an arb
opp.
------
vicparekh
I did this once when interest rates were above 1%. Currently risk-free
interest rates are too low for this action to be worth it.
------
rkon
Completely deceptive linkbait title and a worthless blog post about racking up
credit card debt. THIS is what gets upvoted on HN now? Pathetic...
------
reidbradford
This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. I definitely would not want to
be blogging about this.
What happened to good old fashioned shame and just getting on with your own
business? Everyone wants to be a fucking celebrity.
~~~
muhfuhkuh
Wow, you must really hate pg and patio11. They spill about everything openly.
What attention whores, amirite?
These types of blog posts are merely confessionals with learning points
attached that the confessor hopes the reader would find salient. You
apparently didn't. And...?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
DeepMind’s Latest A.I. Health Breakthrough Has Some Problems - amrrs
https://onezero.medium.com/deepminds-latest-a-i-health-breakthrough-has-some-problems-5cd14e2c77ef
======
amrrs
Non-paywall - [https://outline.com/ynWv9S](https://outline.com/ynWv9S)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
WhatsApp for iPad and Mac in the works, suggests reliable leaker - garysahota93
https://9to5mac.com/2019/07/26/whatsapp-for-ipad/
======
vikingcaffiene
This would have been good news before FB bought em. As it stands why not just
save time and mail FB the contents of your hard drive directly?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Should it be a bit harder to submit on HN? - egiva
Just a quick question/concept: should it be a bit harder to post on HN - thus leading to higher quality links/submissions? In general, the quality of content posted is amazing, but what if a description of minimum character length was needed to post? Average number of posts per user might decline, but there might be more discussion per post, creating more value for the community. Is this a good idea or bad?
======
JoshCole
I'm not sure, but I've been thinking about quality for a bit and figure I'd
share my thoughts.
Eternal September is named the way it is because in the past online
communities only had to deal with influx when students got to college, but now
they have to deal with a constant influx. Given this, it seems obvious to me
how you go about countering Eternal September: remove the eternal.
This could be done in a few ways, but the core idea is having a period in
which registration has a barrier for most of the year and periods in which the
barrier is removed for the sake of growth.
------
mooism2
There's value in the links, not only in the discussion. I don't see the point
in discouraging submissions (except for spam/off-topic submissions).
~~~
egiva
Yeah, I think you're right - maybe there's a "push and a "pull" effect
involved - creating barriers to make submission more difficult might be a
"push", but something like flagging or marking spam and off-topic stuff would
be more of a "pull" to encourage quality posts? I think pulls (incentives of
any sort) are better for communities than pushes (barriers or punishments).
Just some random thoughts...
------
bergie
On Maemo News we handle off-topic submissions via ability to downvote posts.
And one downvote is worth 5 upvotes.
------
phlux
No.
EDIT:
There should be the ability to be more granular in posting. More topic
options, subscribability etc.
I've said it before - and I'll keep saying it - take the best aspects of
Reddit and apply them here.
Why can I easily see top, new, threads and comments - but I have to go to my
profile to see my submissions? I can't see if there have been replies to my
posts etc.
Rather than making it harder to post - lets make what we already have better
to use.
~~~
bmelton
If you enable notifo, and have a supported client, you can get instant
notifications of replies to your posts.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Should Microsoft Fund Startups, Y Combinator-Style? - gthuang
http://www.xconomy.com/seattle/2008/08/11/microsoft-entertains-idea-of-funding-startups-probably-wont-take-the-plunge/
======
iamdave
Founders fear giving their investors too much control and stake in a company
with investors, until Microsoft jumped in the game. Shit just got real.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
NYTimes releases Article Search API - bdotdub
http://open.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/announcing-the-article-search-api/
======
markbao
I'm always extremely impressed with NYTimes' Developer Tools
(<http://developer.nytimes.com/>) – especially when they are going through the
(apparent) decline of newspapers.
I'm expecting a lot of interesting stuff to be built with this new API. Looks
like lots and lots of search points ("An article comprises ~35 searchable
fields")
~~~
bdotdub
I think it's good; it shows foresight, even if it is running out of cash.
I think they can get some money by providing premium APIs to access their
quality content.
------
seldo
What impresses me most about this API is the richness of the data. Not just
the articles, but publications times and keywords, thumbnails and more. A rich
API just begs for rich applications -- say, the frequency of certain phrases
graphed over time to show the rise and fall of cliches like "information
superhighway" and "uniter, not a divider". Cool!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
M 7.1 SoCal Earthquake: What's Next? - mgsouth
http://temblor.net/earthquake-insights/m-7-1-socal-earthquake-triggers-aftershocks-up-to-100-mi-away-whats-next-9055/
======
needle0
One thing I noticed is that when the US talks about earthquakes, it often only
notes the seismic magnitude value of the quake and doesn't always mention the
seismic intensity scale values of the affected locations. This is in contrast
to Japan where quakes are almost always mentioned in both magnitude and the
Japan Meteorological Agency's "shindo" intensity scale [1], eg. "The 2011
Tohoku Earthquake was a M9.0 quake with a maximum intensity of shindo 7." The
US does have the equivalent of the JMA shindo scale - the Modified Mercalli
(MM) scale [2], and they do seem to be used, but I see the MM values mentioned
much less frequently than how both the Japanese agencies and the general
public refers to shindo values.
While the magnitude value signifies the overall energy of the quake, intensity
scale values indicate the shaking intensity of a given location; hence, it
feels more grounded in one's daily life experiences. Many Japanese individuals
have developed an approximate sense of how strong a quake is - conversations
like "That was a bit big, somewhere around shindo 4?" are common after quakes.
People do of course care about magnitude, but the thing they care most about
after a big quake is more likely "what was the seismic intensity in the worst-
hit area?"
Any idea why intensity scales seem to be much less common in the US?
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Meteorological_Agency_se...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Meteorological_Agency_seismic_intensity_scale)
[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_Mercalli_intensity_sc...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_Mercalli_intensity_scale)
~~~
abcanthur
I haven't lived in seismic areas much, but I was in central LA for both of
these quakes. I was hoping for a simple Richter*distance (or d^.5, whatever
may be appropriate) value to be reported. I realize that real effects are
multivariate, but wouldn't that at least provide the maximum possible effects
to report a magnitude-distance metric? Bc for a few million people I think the
quake felt like a strong spin cycle in the next room , but we were told it was
the biggest in decades.
~~~
Gibbon1
Yeah really depends one distance and local conditions. And sometime 'micro'
local conditions.
Friend of mine that lived in Oakland during the 89 earthquake mentioned seeing
a 'line' of damaged buildings that snaked through a neighborhood. One or two
houses on a block were wrecked. The houses across the street were also
wrecked. Houses next to them were fine. Go the next street over same thing.
He thinks that line followed an old creek bed that developers filled in. So
those houses were built on mud overlain with poorly compacted fill. During the
earthquake the mud liquefied and sloshed around and the fill settled.
Flip side, friend in the Santa Cruz mountains a couple of miles from the
epicenter. His house is built on top of a hard shale outcrop. His house
suffered no damage at all.
~~~
DrScump
The weakness of poor fill was also demonstrated by the collapse of row houses
in the Marina district of SF.
One striking effect was the _directionality_ of the damaging waves. Bookcases
and such that were perpendicular to the waves from the hypocenter went over;
those that were parallel were fine.
------
wanderfowl
The writing and research following this quake series has again underscored for
me both a) how little we actually know about predicting earthquakes b) and how
frustrating that is. You can read every article out there about the things,
and each one ends with, roughly, _shrug_. As somebody who derives a sense of
control from knowledge, it's extra terrifying to have something with such a
huge potential impact on me completely in the dark.
~~~
lotsofpulp
I don't see the point worrying about things outside of your control. Solar
storms, nuclear war, infectious diseases, asteroids, any number of other
unknown natural phenomena we know nothing about. Mitigate what you can, try to
help others, but accept that at the end of the day, you (and the rest of
humanity) are most likely inconsequential in the story of the universe.
~~~
themodelplumber
I'm just a casual ham radio operator, military history hobbyist, amateur
health science researcher, and I know a tiny bit about space. But it seems the
four types of disasters you mention have been studied and measured in depth,
with the result bring great impact on our vulnerability to them. Is this not
so, and should we not continue improving our measurement (control) systems?
~~~
lotsofpulp
We should strive to improve our model of the universe, but I was specifically
responding to the notion of being “terrified” by the person I responded to. I
think am not terrified by it because I’ve accepted that there are always any
number of risks that can wipe me out, known and unknown.
~~~
rubicon33
You conclude that infectious disease is "out of your control"?
~~~
coding123
> I’m saying no point in being worried about it.
(sorry there is no reply option for lots of pulp).
Isn't worry the one human emotion that actually makes us ready for things. If
we had an earthquake 1000 years ago that killed half of society and the people
just said, damn oh well. They don't do things the same way after that do they?
They change design, learn more about the planet, adjust adjust adjust. All of
that is driven by worry.
~~~
lotsofpulp
Perhaps worry is not the right word, as the person I initially responded to
had used the word “terrified”. As in I wouldn’t dwell on things out of my
control.
------
ianai
The scale of geological time never ceases to impress:
“There was plenty of accumulated stress, enough to permit a quake with 3 m (10
ft) of slip. That suggests that one can, indeed, have aftershocks 150 years
after very large mainshocks”
~~~
mc32
What I don’t get is how is a quake which happens on a disconnected and
different fault (heretofore unknown) an aftershock of a previous quake (which
occurred over 100 years ago)?
I looks like quakes are on a continuum. The extremes are, each quake is an
individual event; on the other all quakes are a result and continuation of
previous quakes. It seems like the slider position on the continuum is up to a
bit of “interpretation”.
~~~
hvs
As a person that knows nothing about this subject, that's the impression I got
as well. The tectonic plates are constantly moving, so of course earthquakes
in one place will often cause stress in another place. Understanding this
process is certainly important, though.
~~~
ianai
I think it’s closer to being a constant chain of reactions than otherwise -
because the earth has so much heat and magma below its crust.
------
coss
I live in SoCal and can't believe the amount of attention this has gotten,
literally world wide. Am I underestimating the importance or is it just a slow
news cycle?
------
olivermarks
'...nothing at the ground surface had given this fault away before it fired
off the quake. Some of the world’s best field geologists had scoured this area
for the past 50 years...'
------
phy6
If you can don your anti-quackery bio hazard suit, the youtube channel
Dutchsinse is entertaining for his forecast of earthquake locations. His
guesses involve following trends along tectonic boundaries on a globe scale.
One of the things I've heard him say that I've not heard elsewhere is the
implied correlation between geothermal pumping operations near the latest
epicenter and crust weakness.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj6Vj4TOtx4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj6Vj4TOtx4)
~~~
thanatos_dem
Eek. The content is interesting, but the channel’s style and sound effects are
just too much for me. Same problem I have with “Mad Money”.
~~~
phy6
I agree, too much VHS-iness.
------
caymanjim
I can't speak to the merits of this article, but the tone is a bit
sensationalist, especially the conclusion, and then they link to some
commercial entities to help you prepare for doom. It makes me dismiss the
entire article as a fear-mongering advertisement.
------
peter303
Interesting a non-peer-reviewed study is released quickly on web.
However Dr Stein is one of my Stanford classmates and computing earthquake
stress changes for 30 years. So I would believe this study.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Climate Change Supercomputer Cited as Top Polluter - 1SockChuck
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/08/28/uk-climate-change-computer-cited-as-polluter/
======
dejb
Shame that so many of those hard-working thoughtful journalists who provide
such an essential service to the community by reporting this sort of thing are
being put out of work by the internet and IT. If only they'd just unplug those
big nasty computers and we could go back to the way things were.
------
seldo
A deeply stupid article. Supercomputers use a lot of power, oh noes! Clearly
we could solve climate change if we shut down all the supercomputers...?
The Daily Mail loves this kind of thing because it makes their elderly,
luddite audience feel smug that "oh, those computer thingies, all they do is
pollute the environment!" which is why they still drive to the bank every week
rather than doing it online.
~~~
vixen99
Do you have some thoroughly reliable evidence to back up your claims about the
Daily Mail readership? And your name calling? 'Deeply stupid'? The Met Office
is cited as one of the worst buildings in Britain for pollution being
responsible for more than 12,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide a year. No one says
anything about shutting down supercomputers - that's your straw man but the
fact reported is a tad ironic and eminently reportable I would have thought.
------
Dilpil
Well, you gotta break eggs to make an omelette.
------
nuweborder
Why cant we utilize the supercomputer to our advantage, and make it actually
do some good, and help to stop pollution? Not the V8, V12 or even a Jet
Engine. But utilize another often used engine in collaboration with the
supercomputer, to create true green energy. Hint. Im using it right now.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Butterfly Labs BTC Mining Rigs, Too Late? - th3doubl3d
If I don't get one until June, will I be able to make my money back? Thoughts?
======
th3doubl3d
Right. They're saying they'd like to have them all shipped by June. After
crunching the numbers I can't see how the difficulty level will go up that
hard within 3 months, but who knows? I'm totally into the idea of helping the
cause of cyber security, I'm just broke. Right now these machines
theoretically have a ~1 week ROI. But if this takes 3 months to get here, and
doesn't maintain a less than 3 week ROI...
I just wanted to poll the crowd and see if anyone else has been doing this
math and if they have any insight.
------
redegg
It depends when the people in front of you get theirs.
There's a large queue for Butterfly Lab's products. You most likely will not
get one in the first batch.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Dashdash.com launches spreadsheet with native data, APIs, automation - patife
https://medium.com/dashdash/the-5-superpowers-of-spreadsheet-cells-2b44b1455647
======
cnfonseca
can I integrate with a generic API?
~~~
patife
sure.
you can use =GET(url, JSON_headers) for that. More
[https://forum.dashdash.com/t/get-post-interact-with-apis-
of-...](https://forum.dashdash.com/t/get-post-interact-with-apis-of-other-
online-services/20/3)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Microsoft Accused Of Stealing Kinect From Columbian Inventor - dkd903
http://digitizor.com/2011/07/15/microsoft-accused-stealing-kinect/
======
daeken
This article misses one thing: MS didn't develop this part of the tech,
PrimeSense did. You can see their stuff at <http://www.primesense.com/?p=487>
MS built the software that actually made sense of the data, but PrimeSense is
who developed and built the technology that's in question here.
~~~
ig1
Precisely, unless he can show the PrimeSense guys based their technology upon
his then they can use a clean-room defence to get the patent invalidated.
~~~
esrauch
IANAL but I don't think that is how patents work. If person A patents his
invention, and person B completely independently invents exactly the same
invention without having any knowledge about person A's work, person B still
cannot just ignore the patent.
~~~
pedalpete
The PrimeSense patents I found were filed in January of 2008, Hei-D patents
weren't filed until March of 2009.
It looks like PrimeSense had the technology first.
------
wccrawford
He can claim it all he wants. He needs to prove it.
------
molecule
Colombian.
/pedant
------
TheDahv
Columbia != Colombia
------
dstein
Let me get this straight, he invents a new technology, doesn't patent it, then
sends a prototype to one of the most vile software companies in the world,
then gets fucked over big time... and he's surprised??
~~~
artmageddon
The patent process sucks, and takes a long time to get it to go through. The
article says he filed in 2009, but he still has yet to get it. Maybe he was
hoping to get a job in Microsoft Research or something?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What can actually be accomplished with Twitter? - messel
http://messel.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/03/what-can-actually-be-accomplished-with-twitter.html
======
access_denied
Driving traffic to your site. The power of social network based traffic is
that you can reach people who wouldn't have searched for your keywords. Think
'publicity instead of 'retail. </IMHO>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Mongo Aggregates and How to explain mongo aggregate queries - rangerranvir
https://ranvir.xyz/blog/mongo-aggregates/
======
rangerranvir
Explaining your queries before deploying gives you a lot of advantage and help
you provide better user experience by providing result faster. What process do
you use so that your queries are well optimized?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Using Google Cloud Vision OCR to extract text from photos and scanned documents - danso
https://gist.github.com/dannguyen/a0b69c84ebc00c54c94d
======
ImJasonH
While we're talking about the Google Cloud Vision API I'll take the
opportunity to plug the Chrome extension I wrote that adds a right-click menu
item to detect text, labels and faces in images in your browser:
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cloud-
vision/nblmo...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cloud-
vision/nblmokgbialjjgfhfofbgfcghhbkejac)
Try it out, let me know what you think. File issues at
github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/cloud-vision/
~~~
fjallstrom
this is such a simple and brilliant idea. thanks for this!
------
jyunderwood
At work I replaced a [Tesseract]([https://github.com/tesseract-
ocr](https://github.com/tesseract-ocr)) pipeline with some scripts around the
Cloud Vision API. I've been pleased with the speed and accuracy so far
considering the low cost and light setup.
Btw, here is a Ruby script that will take an API key and image URL and return
the text:
[https://gist.github.com/jyunderwood/46b601578d9522c0e9ab](https://gist.github.com/jyunderwood/46b601578d9522c0e9ab)
~~~
zodiac
Did you see a significant accuracy increase over using tesseract?
~~~
Isamu
Personally I have seen a very significant increase in accuracy. In particular
with "real life" scenes, tesseract has a hard time.
------
Mithaldu
Submitter: If you're also the author, thank you for sharing your efforts. I
needed exactly this kind of information to improve protection against cp
spammers who had switched to posting images with the urls on one of my
websites. I had however not been able to find out how to start using ocr apis,
so this is a god send.
------
zurbi
This was useful information. Testing this was on my todo list for weeks now:
I read about these limitations in the Cloud Vision OCR API docs, but could not
believe that they would indeed not provide data at the word or region level.
Anyone has any idea why?
I mean, they must have this data internally and it is key for useful OCR.
Currently I am using the free ocr api at
[https://ocr.space/OCRAPI](https://ocr.space/OCRAPI) for my projects. It also
has a corresponding chrome extension called "Copyfish",
[https://github.com/A9T9/Copyfish](https://github.com/A9T9/Copyfish)
------
misiti3780
I was recently testing out google's OCR for some PDF docs - it thought it
worked really well (and is pretty reasonable priced). i didnt care so much
about the structure of the response/document.
------
alex_hirner
@danso, if there are any delimiters in the output (tesseract case) and you are
looking for automatic table extraction, check out
[http://github.com/ahirner/Tabularazr-
os](http://github.com/ahirner/Tabularazr-os)
It's been used with different kinds of financial docs such as municipal bonds.
Implemented in pure python, it has a web interface, simple API and does nifty
type inference (dates, interest rate, dollar ammounts...).
~~~
danso
Very cool, thanks for sharing. I'm guessing it doesn't do OCR yet? FWIW, you
may be interested in these similar projects, which are popular in the
journalism community though they don't provide the same high-level interface
or data-inference, just the PDF-to-delimited text processing:
\- [http://tabula.technology/](http://tabula.technology/) (Java)
\-
[https://github.com/jsvine/pdfplumber](https://github.com/jsvine/pdfplumber)
(pure Python as well)
~~~
alex_hirner
OCR is left out as a possible future extension, which is why I got interested
in this comparison. Thanks, I didn't know about pdfplumber! The utilization of
additional markup like vertical lines from pdfminer is very interesting. Razr
uses poppler tools with text-only conversion but from which it automatically
extracts column names and types.
Similar to plumber and opposed to Tabula, the goal was to extract tables from
a swath of documents without user intervention. Additionally, no knowledge
about the location tables in the document is required. A fully automated
workflow would curl -X POST localhost/analyze/... and filter down the json to
the type or types of tables needed (via context lines, data types, column
headers).
------
langitbiru
While we're talking about Google Cloud Vision API, I'll take the opportunity
to present the simple web interface to detect labels, text, landmark, faces,
logo, etc, using Vision API:
[https://iseeimage.com](https://iseeimage.com)
I hope it will be useful for you who want to try Vision API without being
bothered to get the token API from Google Cloud.
------
steeve
We are amazingly good results using SWT[1] for text detection/boundaries and
Tesseract for OCR. Pretty much on par with the results here.
We used to run this on videos.
[1] [http://libccv.org/doc/doc-swt/](http://libccv.org/doc/doc-swt/)
~~~
beagle3
Can you elaborate a little more about what kind of texts you were reading from
video? Also, how you used the swt for detecting texts/boundaries?
------
dtjones
Seems simple and effective, thanks for sharing. What is the request latency?
~~~
danso
Good question...I threw in some median numbers here:
[https://gist.github.com/dannguyen/a0b69c84ebc00c54c94d#perfo...](https://gist.github.com/dannguyen/a0b69c84ebc00c54c94d#performance-
and-latency)
Basically, about 2 seconds for the road signs photo. 6+ seconds for the
spreadsheet image (with occasional timeouts). So, probably not optimized/ideal
for reading large amounts of text
------
zandorg
I found this great software (called TIRG) which is free, open source, and
finds text in images (though it doesn't normalise to black / white).
Compiles fine on Windows.
[https://sourceforge.net/projects/tirg/files/](https://sourceforge.net/projects/tirg/files/)
------
driverdan
We recently did some testing of Google's OCR vs Abbyy. Google is much better
than Abbyy and is cheaper. Abbyy fails at more complex fonts like script while
Google still performs well.
------
yborg
This is cool ... any idea what languages are supported? All I can find in the
Google docs is "Vision API supports a broad set of languages."
~~~
diggan
The HTTP API is relatively simple to work with actually. Here is a quick
example on how to work with it in NodeJS:
var request = require('request')
var file = require('fs').readFileSync('./testimage.png').toString('base64')
var body = {
requests: {
image: {
content: file
},
features: [
{
type: 'TEXT_DETECTION',
maxResults: 10
}
]
}
}
var url = 'https://vision.googleapis.com/v1/images:annotate\?key\=your_api_key'
request({
url: url,
method: 'POST',
body: JSON.stringify(body)
}, (err, res, body) => {
console.log(err)
console.log(body)
console.log(JSON.parse(body).responses[0].textAnnotations[0].description)
})
Basically you want to convert image data into base64, put it in the
requests.image.content field and make a POST request and you'll get back the
text.
------
sagivo
they compare it to tesseract but i really tend to like the open source
version.
a simple service that has a free plan on top of it can be found here -
[https://scanr.xyz/](https://scanr.xyz/)
------
thesimon
Thanks for sharing. Did you try using it for captchas? :)
~~~
danso
Well, you sparked my academic curiosity:
[https://gist.github.com/dannguyen/a0b69c84ebc00c54c94d#1a-go...](https://gist.github.com/dannguyen/a0b69c84ebc00c54c94d#1a-google-
gmail-captcha-circa-2009)
(better than I thought, actually)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Crowd Sourcing / Funding for students - crjHome
http://sendanimac.tumblr.com/
======
felipebueno
Why do you need an iMac? Why would I help you to buy one? You can develop for
almost every platform using your Sony Laptop, even for iOS. And why an iMac?
The most expensive Apple computer. Why don't you start with a Mac Mini (if you
really need a mac)?
I would like to buy a car but I won't ask money to the internet for that.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What if I knew I'd die in 35 days? - sajid
http://founderzen.com/2011/04/19/times-flying
======
nadam
1\. I would definitely live differently if my expected remaining life time
would be 35 days than if it would be 35 years. Some preojects are more long-
term in nature.
2\. This list shows that the author is very young... On my list there would be
almost only one item despite I am a passionate programmer/hacker/creator in my
35-year-expected-lifetime-remaining mode: spend the time with my FAMILY (I
have two small children).
------
dereg
So basically, he'd live almost exactly like he does right now?
~~~
dansingerman
I guess that is the unstated conclusion. If explicated I guess it would be too
much like spoon-feeding.
Me? I would definitely not live the same way.
~~~
zalew
> Me? I would definitely not live the same way.
so maybe start now?
~~~
dansingerman
Well no. Because one thing I would do is liquidate all my assets, work out
what proportion I want to leave to my family, and spend everything else having
a great time.
I don't want to do that if (as I hope) I have many years left.
------
krav
Actually, the author is turning 40 :)
But, he is single, doesn't have kids, and has done the travel, nightclubs, sex
with many women thing, so using that experience.
If one thinks about it, none of us know the final day, we just live like it's
far away in never never land. In a previous career, I worked in a level one
trauma ER, and in four years, watched hundreds, if not close to a thousand,
people die. Makes one think. None of those people woke up that morning, got
ready for work, and got in their cars thinking this'd be their last day.
So that thought went into this as well. It was an off the head list, more of
how I would live, and more importantly, how I _should_ live whether I have 35
days or 70 years left.
I'm sure if I was to do the exercise next year, there'd be new items, some
from current list might go. But that's the beauty of life. We grow, we change,
we evolve.
It is a good exercise for anyone to do, regardless of age and impending
birthdays. I highly recommend it.
------
araneae
If you knew you'd die in 35 days you would probably be in hospital and too
sick to do any of these things.
~~~
brg
Or hacking up a death clock on GAE.
------
Swizec
> Nightclubs: Waste of time. Being around people posing in a space that
> fosters no real connection or depth, I wouldn’t spend my time on.
I disagree, nightclubs can be awesome when approached with the right mindset.
Chaos, total cacophony and the total freedom to make a complete fool of
yourself and others without anyone caring one bit even 10 minutes from now.
It's all just so liberating and awesome, the kind of freedom one can rarely
get anymore.
A good alternative is to take a car and race it down the freeway as fast as it
would go, but that's slightly more dangerous and quite a bit more illegal.
In general what I think his list is missing terribly is _letting go_.
Everyone, about to die or not, should have a few hours a week where they can
just completely let go and get in touch with their primal self.
~~~
brg
_the total freedom to make a complete fool of yourself and others without
anyone caring one bit even 10 minutes from now. It's all just so liberating
and awesome, the kind of freedom one can rarely get anymore._
You are free to live every day like that, and you would be much happier.
~~~
Swizec
Sure, but do I want to deal with the _consequences_ ... no.
~~~
brg
Well, not to be a complete fool =D
But those who would not want to be around when your having fun are probably
the same people you would not around you at work. That's not exactly right,
but there's a hint of truth in it.
~~~
Swizec
But sometimes I _want_ to be a complete fool and act completely out of
character and inappropriately.
Problem is people in general have a hard time grasping that just because you
do something in situation X, it doesn't necessarily reflect poorly on your
character. Take a look at all the "Guy posts drunk pic on FB. Guy loses job"
fiascos.
------
mathnode
You still have time to finish Portal 2.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Optogenetics Hardware Setup - snake117
http://web.stanford.edu/group/dlab/optogenetics/hardware.html
======
batbomb
I saw one of the guys from this lab give a colloquium (namely about the virus
vectors and mice) and it was the single most amazing thing/field I've learned
about in the last 10 years.
~~~
bognition
Optogenetics represents a huge advancement in Neuroscience as they allow us to
single out a specific population of neurons for stimulation while leaving
their neighbors alone. Previous technologies for driving neural activity are
barbaric by comparison. I seriously hope that karl deisseroth wins the nobel
prize some day.
~~~
sn9
It's not just the improvement in spatial resolution, but in temporal
resolution, too. The ability to stimulate specific subpopulations on
millisecond timescales basically means the precision of our surgical
techniques is now probably the main bottleneck to more sophisticated control
(alongside our own understanding of the interactions of different neuronal
circuits).
I'd say it's not so much a matter of "if" Deisseroth and his colleagues win so
much as when.
------
aperrien
This is amazing. A couple of years ago I asked if we were able to use
Optogenetics to build a "bridge" over damaged neurons or nerve fibers. Is this
technology a "yes" answer to that question?
~~~
siyer
Specifically in the peripheral nervous system, there's been some work along
these lines, primarily in anesthetized experiments, using ChR2-expressing stem
cells, which integrate into denervated nerves, and enable optogenetic control
of the previously denervated muscles. See here:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24700859](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24700859)
We wrote a review recently about what's been happening in optogenetics in the
peripheral nervous system/spinal cord. That's here:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27147590](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27147590)
------
DigitalJack
I feel terrible for the mice used in experiments, and yet I'm grateful for the
scientific advances such experiments have made possible. Makes me
uncomfortable.
~~~
bbctol
Lots of mice for neuroscience experiments end up with their heads sliced in
half, anyway, so there are worse fates. I never got that job, but I heard it
does strange things to the mind to cut rat heads for an hour straight.
~~~
styrophone
> I heard it does strange things to the mind to cut rat heads for an hour
> straight
I've spent a few years doing that. While I can see how the image might appear
to folks who haven't been in that field, it's a bit hyperbolic to to think of
it as a soul-bending meat grinder. Conducting an animal study in a reputable
institution is regulated by an ethics committee with the purpose of
scrutinizing scientific motivation and the care of animals. When you're clear
on the purpose, methods, and minimum animal requirements, it isn't butchery.
Furthermore, keeping the animals comfortable (through medication and other
means) doesn't just serve to make the researcher feel good; it also eases
stress on the animals, which otherwise can confound medical data. In short,
it's a sophisticated professional endeavor, and the science gets more
mindshare than the visceral unpleasantness of performing surgery on an animal.
It has also been my experience that most people without experience in animal
research can be quite surprised by the degree of similarity between animal
care and use committees and human subject research review boards. Animal
researchers can have a fairly high bar to clear to justify the use of
vertebrate animals.
~~~
tudorw
Thanks, I've read enough about the beginnings of biological science to deeply
appreciate your explaining the humane approach which seems to be as well
considered as your research, on behalf of our invaluable rodent assistants,
thank you.
------
mrcactu5
they're attaching that thing to the mouse's brain?
~~~
dekhn
they're not just attaching it, they're shoving it in there with long pointy
spikes!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
WebSockets is a stream, not a message based protocol - saurabh
http://www.lenholgate.com/blog/2011/07/websockets-is-a-stream-not-a-message-based-protocol.html
======
zaphoyd
I think his analysis is flawed. WebSocket is a message based protocol that
does not specify a maximum message size in the RFC. This does not make it a
streaming protocol until an implementation decides to deliver incomplete
messages to the end application. Some implementations have done this, many
(including all browsers) have not and will not.
Time and time again it has been demonstrated that we are bad at choosing a
maximum allowed value for all applications and all future considerations (see:
ethernet frame sizes, IP address lengths, operating system address spaces,
file system block sizes/counts, etc).
In some cases (many of those previously listed) there were hardware, cost, or
technical concerns that led to nailing down a number in an RFC. For WebSocket
there is no clear benefit to forever encoding a specific numeric maximum
message size. It is a high enough level protocol that there is no technical or
cost benefit to make message sizes limited by anything other than individual
application needs.
As such, the WebSocket RFC leaves maximum message size implementation defined,
and specifically says that an implementation SHOULD implement a reasonable
maximum message size for its purpose. A chat application that knows it will
only be moving small text messages can set its maximum message threshold small
to improve buffer performance and catch invalid messages sooner. An
application that finds a business case for sending a large file in one large
message can set itself up accordingly. Generic WebSocket parsers should expose
a method of setting the maximum message size the application wishes to
receive.
I definitely agree that not requiring implementations to return their maximum
message size along with the "Message too big" error will make some sorts of
interoperability more difficult. However, it also prevents exposing
implementation security details and simplifies the core spec (the author has
already complained that the spec is too complicated already). It is relatively
simple for an application to negotiate a maximum message size privately if
necessary and the WebSocket extension mechanism allows a method for
standardizing a way of doing so if this turns out to be a serious issue in the
future.
~~~
LenHolgate
I've no problem with the lack of a max message size in the RFC, what could
cause problems is the fact that it needs to be passed between client and
server "out of band", i.e. at the application protocol layer rather than at
the websocket protocol layer. Also bear in mind that this blog entry was
written based on Draft HyBi 09 and not the final RFC; the wording has changed
somewhat since then.
The draft in question suggested that providing a message based interface to
application code was possible and that the parser could/should deliver only
complete messages to the application code. That's hard to do if you also want
to allow for the 'endless streaming' scenario that others on the working group
were fond of. The result was a bit of a mess.
The final RFC addresses some of this, but there's no getting around the fact
that the websocket protocol itself can't tell you how big a message is until
you get the final frame.
Sure you can work around all of this even for a generic parser but the initial
wording in the draft in question could lead you towards the wrong design if
you're not careful.
~~~
zaphoyd
As I mentioned above, I agree that that needing to pass maximum message size
out of band makes some things more difficult. Whether that was the right
tradeoff in terms of convenience vs protocol complexity I think has yet to be
seen. At any rate, an extension to perform this in band should be trivial.
Perhaps I will try writing one to test out my extension handling code.
I do see your point on the "endless streaming" section of the RFC. Stating
that "(section 5.4) The primary purpose of fragmentation is to allow sending a
message that is of unknown size when the message is started without having to
buffer that message." implies that a web socket implementation should support
this sort of operation. Indeed, if you want to support sending messages of
unknown size you must expose an interface more complicated than the default
message based one.
That said, a message only implementation that does not allow sending unknown
sized messages is 100% compliant with both the spec and receiving such
messages. The RFC probably could have made this fact more clear. I believe
that endless streaming mode will not be a common use case and have not
implemented it in my generic WebSocket library. I do believe, however, that
fragmentation of messages provides important benefits even without unknown
size sends. Once you have message fragmentation there is no additional
protocol cost to allow unknown size sends.
~~~
LenHolgate
I agree with all you're saying.
The wording of the RFC has improved since that draft and the flexibility could
be useful in some scenarios.
I ended up with an API which can be asked to deliver complete messages 'if
possible' given the buffers provided by the client of the API. If it's not
possible and the buffer becomes full then the API simply gives you the
fragment of data and tells you if it knows how much more there is to come or
not.
------
lambda
The WebSocket protocol design was hijacked by architecture astronauts who
decided that it _must_ have all of these extra features added, instead of
remaining a simple, easily implementable and understandable protocol. The
original WebSocket protocol was a simple stream of delimited messages, with
the only complexity being in the handshake that was necessary to ensure that
JavaScript apps couldn't send arbitrary data to arbitrary ports without
permission.
The problem is that the original handshake wasn't good enough (there were
still security vulnerabilities despite he handshake), and when Ian Hickson
decided to hand over control to the IETF, the architecture astronauts took
over, adding complex framing with six different frame types, subprotocols,
extensions, versions, complex bit twiddling required to parse frame headers,
fragmentation of messages into smaller frames (which is what this article is
complaining about), control frames interleaved with fragmented messages,
numeric status codes _and_ textual close reason strings that "MUST NOT" be
shown to the user, masking of data by xor'ing with a random value that changes
for each frame, but only for one direction (client->server), a two-way closing
handshake on top the existing TCP mechanisms for closing the connection, pings
to test the connection for liveness, and so on. There are six registries
defined for IANA to keep track of
<http://www.iana.org/assignments/websocket/websocket.xml>; extensions,
subprotocols, version numbers, close codes, opcodes, and framing bits.
And despite all of this over-engineering and attempt at extensibility, all
extensions must know about each other, because there is no standard method for
delimiting different extensions' data (or even specifying how much data an
extension uses), and there are three header bits and 10 frame types that all
extensions must share. And I don't really know why there's a need for
subprotocols on top of the ability to just encode that information in the URL.
It's kind of sad how what could have been a relatively simple and easy to
implement protocol has been taken over by architecture astronauts. Yes, a few
of these features are actually required to securely deploy websockets (the
handshake and masking). Most of them are people making up features that would
be nice in theory, instead of implementing something simple that works. Ian
Hickson's original protocol wasn't perfect; it still needed some work by the
time he left. But it was simple, and easy to implement, and didn't impose
restrictions that couldn't be worked around at a higher level.
~~~
pork
Thanks for an extremely illuminating explanation. I may be wrong, but it
almost sounds like long polling and other alternatives are preferable to
Websockets because of the added complexity. Stories like this also make me
feel fortunate that my favorite beacon of simplicity, JSON, didn't get handed
over to a "task force".
------
samwillis
It seems to me that the hype around Web Sockets has overshadowed the Server
Sent Events API (<http://dev.w3.org/html5/eventsource/>) which for most
situations where you don't need a continues stream of data is a more sensible
system. It is purely a message sending system by design.
The really nice thing about SSE is that you can fall back to long polling very
easily with exactly the same back end and as it runs over vanilla http without
the upgrade protocol system is much easer to implement, you just don't close
the connection after sending a message. Obviously its only one way but we have
a well established way of sending messages in the other direction with http
POST.
~~~
scarmig
Which browsers have implemented SSE/EventSource?
~~~
pornel
All except IE and Android, as usual.
<http://www.caniuse.com/#search=eventsource>
However, since SSE is HTTP-compatible you can easily implement fallback for
these, e.g.
<https://github.com/Yaffle/EventSource>
~~~
scarmig
Wow, I seem to have missed the boat on caniuse.com =)
Thanks for the info, everyone.
------
andrewvc
This is some screwed up stuff, as nearly every WebSocket library and tutorial
really encourages treating them as discreet messages. This should be fixed
post haste, because very few people really want a stream based protocol for
web sockets.
~~~
theturtle32
I don't think it'll be a problem in practicality. Most implementations primary
APIs will be message based and not intended for this streaming case. I'm
planning on refactoring my implementation to have a low level streaming API
that's used internally and is exposed if you really need it, but on top of
that build the message based API that 99.5% of people will use.
------
NHQ
Hey, this article is better than a rant, if you don't know much about what's
going on with the RFC, but are using websockets anyway. :D
Everything you send up or down is a message, or a packet, and the size of that
cannot exceed the size of pipe (with bottlenecks or intermediary
restrictions). Call 'em Quantum Packets, or a stream, or a message. The
websocket protocol, as imagined by this developer, is meant to allow a
continuous lot of Quantum Packs to "flow", without the _application level_
overhead of parsing a bunch of protocol, headers, wackness. I want to get the
data into my applications AFAP, cuz I still have to transcode it, analyze it,
and all else to make the baby dance.
What we need as developers are minimum-for-reliability standards. No two
people in different locations will have the same pipe. As a developer, I
consider it my domain to write software on top of, or using, the socket layer
to determine the potential through-put of the given socket, and to test such
as needed through-out the simulcast. I don't even want the socket-layer-
wrapper writers (may God shower them with blessings) intervening at this
level, until everybody on Earth has unrestricted 10mbps/s up and down.
If that control is hidden from me, or not an option, or is nullified by
protocol, then my app or media could break in ways I could not predict or
understand, and so I would have to design my app using the socket layer in a
lowest-common-reliability kind of way.
These are not the opinions of a WebSocket RFC acquainted developer.
------
simpsond
The WebSocket protocol works for both small and large messages in a single
frame (message based), and also small and large frames in multiple fragments
(stream based)... It's capable of being used for both. It's a good idea to
restrict frame sizes on your application if you know what your limits are.
~~~
marshray
It's only capable of being used for messages if there's something to guarantee
that all hops along the way are going to preserve the message boundaries in
ways expected by the application layer. Can the protocol split single
messages? Can the protocol merge adjacent messages without reordering?
Unless the protocol specifically guarantees certain behavior _and_ commonly-
used systems regularly exercise this guarantee, it's just not going to work
reliably when it's needed.
Hearing some of the "works for me" discussion from developers suggests that
we're heading for that magic situation where it works 99.9% of the time. I.e.,
the system looks fine in testing and then fails in mysterious ways (that
require deep protocol fixes) in production.
Ideally, implementations of such a protocol would intentionally fragment the
messages somewhat if they were not going to guarantee they were atomic. But
there are very few developers (and code reviewing managers) enlightened enough
to let that kind of thing ship.
~~~
LenHolgate
The protocol preserves message boundaries but not fragment boundaries. You may
send a message of, say, 100 bytes and get 100 x 1 byte fragments arrive, or
you may send 100 x 1 byte fragments and get 100 bytes in a single frame. The
main issue, for me, at the time, was that when you get that first 1 byte frame
there's no way to know how big the resulting message will be.
Luckily there's a rather excellent compliance test suite, here:
<http://www.tavendo.de/autobahn/testsuite.html> which should go a long way to
help nail interop issues.
~~~
marshray
_when you get that first 1 byte frame there's no way to know how big the
resulting message will be_
So that's a design tradeoff. I've implemented protocols that did it both ways
and it's definitely easier on the guy trying to implement a library or other
receiving application if he can get a reasonable upper limit on the size of
the messages.
But on the other hand, by _not_ requiring the total message length be known in
advance, it eases the logical (and memory) burden on the sender. Often the
sender will be an overloaded server.
Nothing can prevent a higher-level protocol on top of WS from negotiating its
own max message size.
So the design choice that was made would seem to _allow_ optimizations for the
overloaded server case without prohibiting other optimizations. This is
typical of W3C protocols.
~~~
simpsond
Well, all frames actually do have length in the header. It's just not the
first byte... it's the lowest 7 bits of the second byte, and possibly more
(check the spec).
So, if I can read 2 bytes from my buffer, I can get a good idea of the message
size. If I only have 1 byte, I rewind and wait until I receive another.
~~~
marshray
But we're talking about messages, not frames.
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6455> "frames have no semantic meaning"
If Websocket developers begin making unwarranted assumptions about message
framing and fragmentation you will regret it. BELIEVE ME.
/me gets back to bugfixing
------
reedhedges
Since this post seems to actually have been made in July of this year, does
anyone who has been following WebSocket details have any comments on how this
situation has changed?
My impression of WebSockets is that it's not actually a "finished" high level
protocol. They could have just brought a basic socket style interface into
JavaScript and left it at that. (And based on its name, that's what you'd
expect at first.) But they decided to add various features, (for better or
worse, I don't know yet) on top of that. (I guess part of it is the challenge
of working not just on TCP, but sort of within HTTP as well). Just as you
wouldn't just pick up TCP and start blowing "data" through it without some
additional application specific structure, you're going to need to add your
own structure inside WebSocket's framework.
~~~
LenHolgate
I posted an update when HyBi 13 came out;
[http://www.lenholgate.com/blog/2011/09/the-websocket-
protoco...](http://www.lenholgate.com/blog/2011/09/the-websocket-protocol---
draft-hybi-13.html)
The wording was improved around the suggestion to provide only a message based
API.
I think the WebSockets protocol ended up being a little more than it should
have been. You have to understand that it was being pulled in all sorts of
directions by the working group members and that there are good reasons for
all of the parts of the protocol (though some of those parts could work better
with other parts IMHO). It had to be finished at some point though and I think
the working group did a good job in the end.
Personally I think it would have been better had it been explicitly stream
based from a user's perspective, but then I don't have the javascript/browser
background to know how foolish that probably sounds.
------
kokey
Looks like we should be implementing UUCP over WebSockets.
------
jerf
You don't sound smart for mocking the idea that a 8-exabyte message in a
communication protocol is "big enough", you sound like you're mindlessly
parroting ideas you don't fully understand. Yes, 8 exabytes _is_ enough for a
single message, and always will be. TCP works on "messages" (packets) in the
kilobyte range, for comparison. Communication protocol packet sizes aren't
equal to the amount of data the communication protocol can send.
~~~
LenHolgate
The argument FOR 63 bit message sizes was that you could effectively turn the
message based protocol into a stream, except, unfortunately, the "stream" has
a limit even if it seems plenty big enough now.
Personally I wouldn't have included the 63 bit message size.
~~~
maximusprime
What's the point? What's the difference between a stream of messages, and a
stream of bytes? Nothing.
~~~
LenHolgate
The difference is that with a stream of websocket messages every so often you
need to deal with the framing. With a stream of bytes you don't. This
precludes the use case that was the basis of the argument for 63 byte messages
if you ever have to 'stream' a 'message' that needs to be longer... Sure you
can send it as multiple fragments but then you can't do the 'here's a file
handle, read the stream' thing that was proposed.
------
ilaksh
Does socket.io handle these issues? Does Now.js?
------
angersock
Out of curiosity, and forgive my ignorance here, but since everyone seems to
prefer using event-driven methods in JS, why was a message-based protocol
passed over in favor of this stream solution?
~~~
forgotusername
It's elsewhere in the comments or the article: a feature of the protocol
allows transmitting partial messages, where the message size is unknown. One
example might be the result of a slow, unbuffered SQL query, where it's more
useful for the server to pass the result to the client incrementally, rather
than buffer the full message ahead of time.
Why you'd want to do that is another question entirely. Introducing roundtrips
by feeding tiny chunks to TCP is generally a horrible idea, however, it does
prevent the server from dedicating a potentially huge chunk of RAM to buffer
the result ahead of time.
Because of this feature, and the author's desire to model this feature as part
of some client library API (a mistake? you decide), he's concluded that it's
in fact a stream-oriented protocol. That's like concluding it's a byte-
oriented protocol because TCP can/will further fragment the partial frames due
to segment size constraints, etc. (i.e. it's a silly conclusion).
~~~
LenHolgate
I'm not sure I follow you to get to it being a "silly conclusion".
As I said, the draft at the time suggests presenting whole messages to the
application layer. The parser can't know it has a whole message until it gets
the final frame... This could lead to interesting memory usage ;)
The protocol provides for a series of infinitely long messages, each separated
by a terminator. I don't have a problem with that in itself, but the draft at
the time was misleading to suggest otherwise...
------
pyrotechnick
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Tech Worker Shortage Doesn't Really Exist - prostoalex
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-11-24/the-tech-worker-shortage-doesnt-really-exist#r=read
======
pm90
I'm increasingly agitated by these commentators on the topic, who have
absolutely no idea what the ground reality is. Frequently, as in this case,
they also seem to conflate two different problems: shortage of IT workers and
shortage of software developers.
A software developer cannot be asked to manage a linux database; I mean she
can, but that is not what she is good at. Conversely, an IT person cannot be
asked to architect the backed of a payment gateway system. Of course there is
some overlap (devops is what comes to mind). I'm guessing that most of FB/MS
employees are probably developers, so when they mention IT workers in the same
breath as shortage at FB/MS, they are exposing their ignorance.
Furthermore, the paper itself seems to be published as a "report" on the page
of a dubious organizations. Come on journalists, please do some actual
journalism! Ask more people than those who confirm what your story wants to
show. Find and determine the truth of the story; that is what you are paid
for!
edit: as I suspected, most of the funding for this "institute" comes from
labor unions.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Policy_Institute#Fundi...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Policy_Institute#Funding)
~~~
slantedview
That H1B is a mechanism for importing cheap labor is a fact, regardless of the
messenger. Studies have been demonstrating this going back nearly a decade:
[http://www.cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/articles/2005/back130...](http://www.cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/articles/2005/back1305.html)
~~~
gamesbrainiac
Yes, but the labor imported is skilled and does not stay "cheap" for long.
~~~
agrover
h1b makes switching jobs difficult.
~~~
Bluestrike2
In what way?
~~~
ambrood
In a sense that your employer needs to file a Labor certification application,
determine the prevailing wage and ultimately USCIS granting your petition. It
takes a while to get it all done.
~~~
potatolicious
... like 2-3 weeks? That's how long mine took, just a short while ago.
H1B presents some friction in switching jobs, but to call it "difficult",
especially in current market conditions, is vastly overselling it.
~~~
geebee
What if you wanted to work in a completely different field, go to law school,
or quit your job and start a new business?
------
mgirdley
Running a coding school (Codeup), I get this email all the time from
recruiters:
"Dear xyz,
I've been hired to fill this not-so-great job THIS WEEK and we want this crazy
exclusive unicorn skillset that about a dozen people in the world have and,
you know, we aren't going to pay much anywhere near going rate and we're going
to hire as a contractor so we can fire you any time and we're not really
interested in training a person who'd actually want this gig at the rate we're
wanting to pay. So, do you know anyone?"
~~~
jrochkind1
If there was really a tech shortage -- and had been for years -- wouldn't the
labor supply rise to meet demand? Wouldn't there be people willing to work
less than the going rate (which is far above a living wage), wouldn't the
going rate be dropping?
I don't know the answer, I think what is going on may actually be kind of
complicated.
But that's the kind of question raised, you can't explain away the question of
whether there's a shortage or not by saying "It's just that people aren't
willing to pay the going rate."
~~~
mindvirus
There are a few things going on here.
I don't think the world has fully realized this yet, but there's huge
divergence in skill of developers. I know a few developers who are worth
$500k/year, if not more. And I know plenty of others who are not worth that,
but are easily worth $100k/year. With all of them under the same label of
"developer", it can be hard to distinguish what you're getting.
Car example! Imagine wanting to buy a car, but not knowing anything about
cars. So you call Kia, and ask how much a car costs, and they say, $15,000.
Then you call Honda, they say $20,000. A few others, similar prices. Then you
call Rolls Royce, and they say $500,000 and you think they're trying to pull a
fast one on you. And to compound this, if you were to list everything that you
want in a car, you'd probably come up with something closer to a Rolls Royce
than a Kia. So you're shopping for a Rolls, and you've budgeted for a Kia.
Also remember, you don't know anything about cars, so you don't know how to
distinguish important features (ie. wheels, a functioning engine), from luxury
ones (ie. a fancy sound system, heated seats).
In terms of people not being willing to pay the going rate - plenty are! All
of the big west coast tech companies pay handsomely for developers. Outside of
big cities though, things are slow to catch up. So I think that a lot of the
sentiment comes from people not wanting to move to SF or NYC or Seattle, but
also wanting to get a competitive rate. Eventually these companies will have
to adapt, but it can take time, especially if there are enough people who
don't want to leave the city they're in. There's also the quality divergence
taking place - as much as we'd all like to think we're good, Google and co.
are very selective.
In terms of working for less than the going rate (which as you said is
generous) - for sure that's happening. But there's adverse selection happening
there, in that people who are taking jobs below market are either desperate
and will quit when they find something better, or are of low quality.
Developers aren't paid well out of the goodness of the company's heart,
they're paid because they make money for the company. And bad developers can
have extremely negative productivity even ignoring their salary.
Finally, labor takes time to catch up, especially skilled labor. From no
programming knowledge to junior developer at a top company takes typically
five years - ie. an undergraduate degree in computer science and some
tinkering on your own (yes there are exceptions). And we are seeing supply
increase - enrollment in computer science programs is up across the country.
Imagine we had a severe shortage of doctors - you can't just suddenly triple
the supply of doctors over a couple of years. Now if you have a huge shortage
of brain surgeons, which might take a decade or more to train you're in for a
lot of trouble.
~~~
gohrt
Kia has what most people want in a car. (Fuel efficiency, resilience to
damage, cost-effectiveness, easy maintenance)
Rolls has what people imagine they want in the car. Sort of like those HR
hiring managers imagining what they want in a developer.
~~~
csallen
Seriously, they all think they need Linus Torvalds.
~~~
nandemo
Nah, he just doesn't have the skillset: not enough {Ruby,Node,my pet JS
framework} experience.
------
sroussey
The real shortage is in bankers. Just look at pricing. Engineers are so much
cheaper. We should worry about importing more bankers and traders. Those
salaries are a sure indicator that there is a far larger shortage in that
industry.
~~~
ericd
Yeah, good point. Extreme salaries are oftentimes evidence of a high-leverage
industry, where you want a limited number of the absolute best people, rather
than one in which you just need more people than you can get. CEOs, movie, and
musical stars are other examples.
~~~
dragonwriter
CEOs, movie, and musical stars are not industries. They are job
titles/descriptions of the people at the pinnacle of certain career tracks
(CEOs) or industries (movie/music stars)
Business generalists, actors, and musicians _generally_ \-- the
professions/industries as a whole, rather than just the titles at the top --
get paid a _lot_ less.
~~~
ericd
Sorry, misspoke, but you know what I meant.
Salaries are only absurd near the top of the software industry. It's certainly
better distributed than those other industries, though.
------
dominotw
I've been seeing a version of this every month for past 10 years or so.
H1B in my view is new Ellis Island. Stopping H1B == Stopping all immigration
to US. People often say they support legal immigration but don't support H1B.
What are the other alternatives to H1B to immigrate to America?(I am not
talking about Nobel Laureates or Olympic athletes, I am talking about common
folk who showed up at Ellis Island).
Immigration is one of those things where everyone who got in wants to shut the
door behind them.( "I(or my ancestors) got a shot at a better life, fuck you
the door is now closed.")
~~~
ForHackernews
> What are the other alternatives to H1B to immigrate to America?
You can enter the lottery: [http://www.usagc.org/USA-
immigration.aspx](http://www.usagc.org/USA-immigration.aspx)
~~~
maerF0x0
Even your neighbors cannot enter the lottery. Canadians are pretty dang close
to Americans, lots of us have family on both sides of the border, we speak the
same language, have very similar media, similar education systems etc. etc.
And yet we're not allowed to come to your country for much more than a few
months at a time.
Oddly we _are_ allowed to get a TN visa, in some circumstances, build up some
wealth over a 3 yrs span and then we're promptly booted _out_ of the country
with bags of money instead of being allowed to stay and spend it. strange
strategy.
~~~
titanomachy
Does the TN really expire after 3 years? My (American) boss has been working
here in Canada for at least 5, and he is cheerfully uninterested in becoming a
permanent resident. I guess he had to renew once or twice, but it doesn't seem
like it was much of a hassle for him.
~~~
gabbo
You can get TNs good for 1 year or 3, but you can technically renew your TN
status as many times as you want. The downside is that TN status is strictly
for people with "non-immigrant intent" and if a border agent believes you have
immigrant intent when requesting a TN or entering America with one, they can
revoke it/deny you entry at their discretion. So a 3-year TN is fine, maybe
even a second one, but if you've been in the US on a TN after 8 or 9 years
you're probably going to get some trouble.
------
vinceguidry
Information technology is much harder than people think. It's so hard that
management techniques evolved over millenia of human economic activity just
plain don't work when you apply them to computing. Us tech workers take _The
Mythical Man-Month_ as obvious, no shit how could software work any other way,
but throwing more resources at a problem has _always_ worked to clear it,
until now. It wasn't pretty, some of the bridges built like that are probably
aren't going to last forever like they were designed to, but it worked.
The reason BigCorps are looking to indentured laborers is not because
technology workers are hard to find, but because technology _management_ at
scale is horrendously inefficient, but being managers, they don't really know
that. More importantly, they'd have no real answer to it even if they did. The
only lever they have in the face of this is cutting costs so that each
individual failure doesn't hurt the bottom line so much.
The personal answer to this dynamic is to get out of these labor markets. The
products produced by these companies will always be terrible. I don't
understand why people still want to work at Google and Microsoft, it's
basically factory work now, the glory days are gone. Let the people motivated
to escape poverty do it.
The talent market has already started to fracture into a higher-tier
professional caste and the lower-tier grunt caste. The professionals will
slowly accrete into a Hollywood-style guild system serving anyone that wants
to be on the leading edge of technology while the grunt-employing BigCorps
will just keep pushing the state of the art of paying nine women to have one
baby in one month.
------
WalterBright
Economically speaking, if the market is allowed to set the price, then
shortages don't exist - the supply and demand curves cross. For example, if
there were only 10 box folders in the world, you could get one if you were
willing to pay more than about anyone else, hence no shortage.
But from a pragmatic point of view, if the price is higher than you can
reasonably afford to pay, then there's a shortage.
~~~
morgante
The problem is that the supply curve is essentially vertical in the short-to-
medium term. So even if companies are willing to pay more (trust me, many are,
even if it's not quite as high as I think it should be), they won't
necessarily get _more_ workers.
Also, this is compounded by the shortage being of senior/experienced
developers. As a hiring manager, I get dozens of resumes from new college &
bootcamp grads every day. But we're not hiring fresh grads—we're looking to
hire a few excellent senior developers, and they come along once in a blue
moon.
It'll probably take at least 10 years for domestic supply to catch up to
domestic demand (I estimate it takes at least 10 years of development to
become a senior dev). So even as pricing signals push more students to study
CS, the supply won't catch up for another 10 years or so.
So in the interim the only solution is to import foreign supply.
~~~
Animats
_So in the interim the only solution is to import foreign supply._
So make some experienced developers. How many of your people are in offsite
training right now?
Well?
~~~
morgante
> So make some experienced developers. How many of your people are in offsite
> training right now?
It takes 10 years to build an experienced developer. We don't need to hire
developers 10 years from now, we need to hire them now.
~~~
Animats
You just want them now. If you needed them, you'd pay what it costs to get
them. Meanwhile, plan ahead for your future requirements. If all you need is
webcrap, you don't need 10 years of experience.
~~~
morgante
> You just want them now. If you needed them, you'd pay what it costs to get
> them.
We do. We've literally never had an offer rejected. The problem is just that
there simply isn't a supply of candidates worth making offers to.
As for this nonsense that we should somehow be training developers 10 years
from now, that's just ridiculous. 95% of startups won't last 10 years and if
we build our whole HR strategy on a 10 year pipeline we'd be dead.
~~~
rskar
Your HR strategy is already dead. Over-biased on the desire for the
"senior/experienced developers". Meaning that your organization and the
thousand others like yours perpetually create this apparent "shortage," since
all "senior/experienced" had to start as "new college & bootcamp grads". Since
there are rather few moments where organizations are willing to take the
chances on the "college & bootcamp" types, there will of course be fewer
moments where future "senior/experienced" ones are sown.
~~~
vonmoltke
Hell, screw "college & bootcamp" types: how about engineers like me, who have
10 years of valuable but unconventional/niche experience? I can't get the time
of day from any of these companies bitching and moaning about "shortages"[1]
because I don't have the right buzzwords in my background. I'm right here, I'm
willing to move almost anywhere for an embedded development position, and I'm
being ignored.
[1] I could be wrong on this; the companies I am trying to contact may not be
the ones whining. Reading the conversation here and at /r/cscareerquestions
though gives one the impression that this is a pervasive problem.
~~~
morgante
> I'm willing to move almost anywhere for an embedded development position
There's the problem. There just aren't that many people looking for embedded
software developers. The companies complaining about a shortage are mostly
building web & mobile software—if you were willing to consider that field, I'm
sure more opportunities would open up.
------
rubyn00bie
We add immense value, yet we seen almost none of the profit of that value.
Underpaid to say the least-- especially considering the value of money has
steadily declined (overall) since 1972.
I saw a number someone quotes in a comment of _$120,000_ but it doesn't go as
far as it did in the nineties. Realistically, that wage should be closer to
$180k or more now-a-days-- but it's not.
Plus the real moral of the story is: your business is either capital
intensive, or labor intensive. Software Tech isn't really capital intensive
(per dollar) but is extremely labor intensive.
If tech companies want more talent perhaps they shouldn't build their campuses
on some of the most expensive land in the country. That'd probably save a lot
right there.
I'd be willing to bet Facebook wants more H1-Bs because it helps their bottom
line (decreasing costs), which increases their profit margin, which increases
their stock price... A dollar saved, is a dollar earned-- ask an accountant.
~~~
bluthru
>If tech companies want more talent perhaps they shouldn't build their
campuses on some of the most expensive land in the country. That'd probably
save a lot right there.
It's expensive because it's desirable. Much of today's workforce doesn't want
to live in the suburbs and drive to an office park. Living in a vibrant urban
area is part of compensation for many.
~~~
wyclif
He's not really talking about a vibrant urban area. He's talking about a more
expensive office park, and a place where a six-figure income isn't getting you
ahead because of the cost of living (especially if you have a family).
------
hiou
_> Asked what evidence existed of a labor shortage, a spokesperson for
Facebook e-mailed a one-sentence statement: “We look forward to hearing more
specifics about the President’s plan and how it will impact the skills gap
that threatens the competitiveness of the tech sector.”_
For companies like Google and Facebook, which place such strong emphasis on
data in making decisions, its very telling how little data they have presented
to support their claims.
------
chuckcode
From my standpoint the problem with H-1B and other visas in the US immigration
system isn't that we're issuing too many but rather that they tie the workers
to a particular company in a way that prevents them from changing jobs easily
if they are underpaid. Personally I feel really lucky as a US citizen that
incredibly talented people from all over the world are leaving their families
to come here and contribute to our workforce. Even if you feel differently I
think there is no reason to tie visas to a particular company as it prevents
the market from working efficiently. Tech companies have already admitted to
price fixing for wages [1] and the H-1B visa can certainly act as a way to
prevent other companies from easily hiring your workforce.
[1] [http://time.com/76655/google-apple-settle-wage-fixing-
lawsui...](http://time.com/76655/google-apple-settle-wage-fixing-lawsuit/)
------
andylei
> Further, he and his co-authors found, only half of STEM (science,
> technology, engineering, and mathematics) college graduates each year get
> hired into STEM jobs
Maybe those graduates aren't any good.
> “We don’t dispute the fact at all that Facebook (FB) and Microsoft (MSFT)
> would like to have more, cheaper workers," ... “But that doesn’t constitute
> a shortage.”
I'm not really sure how that squares with the fact that only half of STEM
graduates were hired. Why didn't facebook and microsoft just offer those
graduates cheapo salaries?
Because most of the time, these workers aren't interchangeable cogs. A degree
doesn't mean you can do work in the industry effectively. Maybe there are
billions of STEM graduates, but if only 100 can do the job, there's still a
shortage.
~~~
jtbigwoo
> > Further, he and his co-authors found, only half of STEM (science,
> technology, engineering, and mathematics) college graduates each year get
> hired into STEM jobs
> Maybe those graduates aren't any good.
In my experience, it's because companies don't want to pay to train somebody
in all the basics of office work. New grads (especially STEM grads) don't know
how to run a meeting, write a status report, or do a thousand other things
that a modern company requires. Instead they list job openings for two or
three years of experience and hope to profit off of somebody else's
investment.
~~~
serge2k
But the companies complaining about shortages (microsoft, facebook, etc...)
are the same ones who are willing to hire new grads.
------
mattxxx
Well, the reality is that every company is becoming a tech company.
Text Book Publisher -> E-learning Platform Mass Marketing -> Mass Emailing
Hotel Booking -> App for Hotel Booking
While there probably is no shortage of tech workers, finding ones that aren't
going to mass-code unreliable software then leave the company __is fucking
hard __.
------
NhanH
There are 65000 H1B visa issued a year (and 20000 more for Master & higher
degree holders).
H1B visa is 3 years, extendable to 6 years, with a maximum of 10 years. But
I'd think most people don't stay on the H1B more than 6 years.
So there's approximately 65000 * 6 = 400000 H1B visa holders in the US. For
size comparison, there are about ~240millions adults in working age in the US.
And the _possible amnesty_ from the executive order a few days ago would cover
some where from ~4-5 millions people.
I'm not actually sure what's the point I should be making here. I guess it
just feel to me that in the grand scheme of things, the number of H1B visas is
_tiny tiny_. It's just incredibly sad to me to see on HN that someone would be
concerned about H1B taking over US's jobs (or repressing the wage - which is
the same, just lesser extreme than "taking US's jobs").
~~~
sounds
I'm not concerned about H1B's taking over US jobs. I can understand that labor
unions want to push that message in the same breath they decry US immigration
laws.
I am concerned that H1B's are indentured servitude. That term has a meaning,
and no, it's not slavery, but if you will be deported upon losing your job
that's a little more than just "out of a job."
So H1B's are not a fair way to bring in talent from around the world. Not Tech
Companies' fault, though, if they hire talented people this way. It _is_
Washington's fault, since they are the ones creating the artificial scarcity
in the first place (and turning a blind eye to the actual solutions for such a
long time that it can't be ascribed to incompetence).
On the other hand, Tech Companies _are_ guilty of wage fixing. They got
caught. Some did the right thing and raised wages. Some didn't. The economy is
tough, so the incentives are all there for the company to keep payroll down.
That's not a reason to unionize the software industry. That's just all the
more reason to start your own company.
Startups have successfully challenged the incumbents and won, especially in
software. It's still open season. Good luck!
------
dagobert63
I think several people mentioned this separately: Yes I agree there are no
shortage of people with CS degree the question is 1) Can they code their way
out of an interview. Turns out many people can’t, even though they held a
“senior” title in another company. They can’t solve a simple linked list
problem 2) Living cost of where the company is hiring 100K in Atlanta goes
farther than 120K in SF or in Seattle. I can rent a 2 bedroom town house in a
good neighborhood in Atlanta for 1200$ Vs. you MAY be able to find a 1 bedroom
apartment in Seattle for 1700$ – 2000$. 3) Some companies have very
unrealistic expectations, they want a person with all the experience in the
world, which is just not gonna happen. Personally if I am looking at a
candidate I will look at how he approaches a problem, I will throw him some
curve-balls and if he can handle it they he will be fine. We are in a world
where the technology changes rapidly, a tech/language/skill-set that is
popular today might not worth a dime tomorrow. If you learned how to learn and
adapt you will be fine.
------
gonzi25
I get several emails from recruiters each week, almost none of them include a
salary range at all.. I won't even respond.
~~~
jshen
That's short sighted.
~~~
sroussey
Perhaps, but it can also be a good filter. Experience replying to the messages
would tell.
~~~
jshen
I've had some rather amazing opportunities that came without a salary range in
the initial email. Using that as the primary factor is surely suboptimal.
~~~
csallen
Curious to know what these emails looked like. Were they random messages from
recruiters? Or emails from friends or friends of friends?
~~~
jshen
From recruiters. I can spot the good ones.
~~~
csallen
Care to share your knowledge with us? I've just been ignoring them all as
well.
------
dethstar
What's with taxes for offshoring for America? I'm guessing it isn't that bad
since a lot of IT/desk-help and what not have been offshored for a while now.
Whenever I read posts of "they want to pay us less" online I try to
understand, why wouldn't a company simply offshore it? I live in Mexico, and
when I was looking for jobs there were a lot of "nearshoring" (just like
offshore but sometimes a business guy will go across either border.)
companies, so it's clearly not that rare. Why? Because they can afford the
same for less (due to exchange rates and what not) So I wonder why they'd move
a lot of "talent" there instead of paying them less (but still considerably
more than what an average person gets here) to work for them? Why go through
all the trouble of even suggesting reforms and what not? There's got to be
more to it, no?
------
mbesto
> _“It seems pretty clear that the industry just wants lower-cost labor,”_
It does, but that's not the issue. There is a shortage of _good_ and
_qualified_ tech workers. Tech companies simply can't afford to pay whoever
$120k/yr if their technology doesn't work.
~~~
ChuckMcM
This comes up a lot. The "qualification" clause.
So whose fault is it there isn't a lot of qualification? Workers or Employers?
What I've found hiring people into my organization is that there are many,
perhaps dozens, of ways in which people develop software, all with a great
analogy name from 'waterfall' to 'agile' to 'pair' to 'artisnal' to 'hacking'
and back again. They come with different ideas about what is expected of the
engineer and what is expected of the manager. Have a standup meeting every
week? Great, what are you achieving by that? Getting everyone on the same
page? ok, but what about the guy off site? How about folks who work best in
quiet offices, or those who work best in a noisy free-for-all, do you
playfully criticize each other over bugs or do you have elaborate silent
shunning rituals.
The reality is that everyone I hire seems to come from a different school of
training about how to be effective at programming, what does that say about
qualification? This last job of mine has been my first extended stint at
managing engineers and I have learned so much about what folks can and cannot
be expected to understand or know before coming to the company. It has given
me a lot of appreciation for the intake process that I didn't really have
before.
~~~
napoleond
I wish I could upvote this twice. Is it possible that the real shortage is in
competent technical _managers_?
~~~
nikcub
The shortage of competent technical managers is _massive_. If you have the
bare essentials of communication and project management skills, plus tech and
have a good network to bring developers in - you're getting your email box
torn apart with offers at the moment and wages are insane.
The real tech shortage is in project management, VP Engineering, product
management, experienced multi-stack or vertical developer roles. It is really
far from indicative to compare all of STEM.
------
jandrewrogers
The article is rendered worthless by making the same flawed assumptions most
of these articles make:
\- No one is claiming there is a "STEM shortage". There _is_ a shortage of
qualified software engineers. STEM includes an abundance of marine biologists,
aerospace engineers, astronomers, and myriad other subfields with poor job
prospects that are in no way qualified to fill the shortage that actually
exists in other STEM subfields.
\- The category of "IT worker" sweeps up a lot of low-skill jobs that have
nothing to do with software engineering. Maybe the low-skill jobs are not
making great money but software engineers qualified enough to get a job easily
make six-figures where I live, and I do not live in Silicon Valley. The
oppression and slavery are palpable.
\- Training to become a qualified software engineer is not like training to
operate a backhoe. It is not just about "being good with computers". Tool
chains you can learn over weeks or months, but developing domain competence
useful to an organization can take years. By analogy, both chemists and
chemical engineers deal with designing chemical reactions, but neither can do
the job of the other without a couple years of additional training even though
they are both just making chemicals. Most companies will not pay to train a
chemist to become a chemical engineer when they need a chemical engineer now.
Every article like this that conflates software engineers with "STEM jobs" or
"IT workers" isn't really talking about software engineers.
~~~
nradov
There is no shortage of qualified software engineers. As a hiring manager I
have been able to find as many as I need, at the market price. Anyone can do
the same.
------
philwelch
> “There’s no evidence of any way, shape, or form that there’s a shortage in
> the conventional sense,” says Hal Salzman, a professor of planning and
> public policy at Rutgers University. “They may not be able to find them at
> the price they want. But I’m not sure that qualifies as a shortage, any more
> than my not being able to find a half-priced TV.”
I'm not sure how many developers Hal Salzman has tried to hire, but I find a
lot more of them are weeded out at the "seeing if they can code their way out
of a wet paper bag" stage than at the "salary negotiation" stage.
~~~
Iftheshoefits
Given the ridiculous technical and interview "requirements" that have been
part of tech for the last several years I'm inclined to have as much sympathy
for your statement as I do for companies complaining about tech worker
shortage. Companies want ridiculous breadth of expertise (the ubiquitous
"alphabet soup" listing of technologies), graduate level understanding of
often irrelevant and unrelated algorithms and data structures, and a host of
other absurdities for things like putting together a damn online shopping cart
or, worse, a to-do list.
~~~
philwelch
Do you think hash tables and linked lists are "irrelevant" and "unrelated"?
Have you ever tried to hire developers?
~~~
Iftheshoefits
"Irrelevant and unrelated" _to what_? They can be, in certain circumstances.
I'm not arguing that there are no people trying to get developer jobs who have
no business doing it, or that it's always inappropriate to ask algorithms or
data structures questions. I'm arguing that there is an overemphasis on
trivialities, minutiae, and irrelevant details.
~~~
philwelch
And that's irrelevant to my point, which is that before you can even _get_ to
trivialities and minutiae, the candidate has to be able to code their way out
of a wet paper bag, and a surprising number of them can't.
~~~
Iftheshoefits
That "a surprising number of them can't [code their way out of a paper bag]"
does not imply there is a shortage of tech workers, nor does it reveal
anything particularly interesting about what you consider a "wet paper bag" to
be. What is interesting is that based on your prior comment you believe
certain things are universally useful and pertinent in a programming job,
which is contentious and unsubstantiated at best. And that was rather my
point.
~~~
philwelch
I think the ability to write code is universally useful and pertinent in a
programming job. A shocking number of people fail FizzBuzz. That's what I mean
by "wet paper bag".
------
chralieboy
It is a quality, not a quantity problem.
At a previous company I interviewed hundreds for engineering positions (Ruby &
Rails or JS/Backbone.) Our average was 1 offer extended for every 300 phone
screens. The problem wasn't that we extended 50 offers and got rejected; money
was not a part of the equation. We simply couldn't find the quality we were
looking for.
Specifically, coding schools have capitalized on the gluttony of open
positions, but don't actually go towards solving the problem. There isn't a
shortage of bodies, there is a shortage of experienced developers.
~~~
hiou
Serious question: Why did it never occur that you might need to take in a less
experienced developer and train them? Wouldn't it make sense that there are no
experienced developers available because they are currently fully employed?
~~~
nathanvanfleet
I work with less experienced developers. They really put a drag on the
project. They need to be watched and you have to give a lot of pointers and
refactoring suggestions. And then their tasks just don't end up coming in fast
enough either. Personally I think I'd learn a lot more if I was working with
more advanced devs where I could learn from them than seeing the mistakes I
would have made years ago.
~~~
wyclif
Everybody wants to hire a flying purple unicorn that is a master of "full
stack." It seems nobody has time for "jack of all trades, master of some." But
knowing only one or two domains is a step on the ladder of programmer
competence, and there's no shame in it at all. As other commenters say, you
have to start somewhere. And it's incredibly hard as a developer to go from
intermediate to truly advanced mastery—there's very little training and
mentoring coming from the employer direction (because, as Sweet Brown says,
ain't nobody got time for that: anybody who is a real "ninja" is swamped), and
therefore the only sane strategy is to take complete responsibility for your
own career development, continuing education, and improval of skillset. But
that's just _another_ reason why developers should be paid more.
------
wyclif
"There's no shortage of smart, hardworking engineers. There's a shortage of
smart, hardworking engineers willing to work for very little money." ~ David
"Pardo" Keppel
------
cheepin
Definitely true, but if America can't figure out basic rights like privacy
there will soon come a time where it doesn't matter how many H1B visas are
issued.
However, in light of recent corporation missteps like the Google and friends
wage suppression scheme, I don't think gifting them a bunch of cheap labor is
the right choice.
edit: Clarification. I am referring to privacy breaches causing a lack of
trust in American tech companies by consumers, not whether they will be able
to hire foreign workers.
~~~
frozenport
I suspect the many immigrants from Asia, and China in particular don't give a
damn.
------
freshflowers
The same combination of separate issues keeps polluting the debate.
1\. There is no STEM shortage, there's a shortage of a particular subset of
STEM-related skills, most notably software development (which btw is a skill
barely even taught even in CS, and certainly not filtered for, leading to
people with CS degrees that can't code their way out of a paper bag). Even
within just IT, software development stands out by a mile in all stats when it
comes to the imbalance between jobs and candidates.
2\. Wages are being artificially kept down despite the shortage. Migrant
visa's are one of the things being abused to depress wages. The fact that this
is happening during a shortage is remarkable and confusing, but can be
explained by fear (wages will explode sooner or later, and this terrifies many
employers) and by the low social standing of software developers (even within
IT software developers have for the longest time been known as the code
monkeys at the bottom of the hierarchy, just above the support people) which
leads to even developers themselves not questioning their salaries. Salaries
that tend to be pretty decent, but well below what should be the market value.
------
ulfw
There isn't a Tech Worker shortage if you're willing to be outside the Bay
Area or even outside the country. You're getting great developers in places
around the world for reasonable prices.
Those places just aren't San Francisco. Getting a developer in a mega-priced
city and then hoping to pay less, that is not going to work well. And frankly
that is not what H1Bs should be for.
------
smtddr
I'm still of the mindset that the problem is transportation in the Bay Area.
If I had a magic wand and I could wave it and we all woke up tomorrow to a
nonstop-bullet-BART train that goes 100mph from San Francisco to Mountain
View, Palo Alto, San Ramon, Danville, Cupertino, Daly City, Foster City,
Redwood city, San Jose and the Persidio and we had some kind of crazy zipline
thing that gets you within 1/2 mile of any location within SF, this perceived
shortage wouldn't exist. The problem is salary compared to cost-of-living in
desired locations. And those locations are mostly desired, IMHO, because
nobody wants to deal with a commute. My LinkedIn clearly states that I won't
accept any job outside of walking distance of a BART station regardless of
salary.
What I'd like to see is a poll of HN users that look like this:
You want to live in $DESIRED_LOCATION because:
A. I love $DESIRED_LOCATION and want to be surrounded by its vibe 24/7.
B. $DESIRED_LOCATION is a reasonable commute to/from my job.
C. $DESIRED_LOCATION is a reasonable distance between job & loved ones.
------
nathanvanfleet
I was pretty surprised at the level of skill that the hired programmers at my
company had. And I imagined it was because it's just hard to find anyone. But
I'm not sure if it's just a Montreal Canada problem where the talent left for
elsewhere or if the quality is just never good.
------
lowglow
Hm. I don't know if it's a new shortage or not. But I'm currently hiring and
finding good developers/engineers that are also a culture fit is pretty
difficult. I guess it has always been this way since I moved to SF (~5 years
ago).
[edit]
To clarify on 'culture fit' in my statement:
Interesting, inspiring, nice, humble, pleasant to work with, eager to share
knowledge, discover new things, understands our audience, who we are, and
genuinely wants to further the vision of the entire startup.
These are people that are going to help elevate the group together. I don't
look at engineers as simply a commodity that can be replaced at a whim, but
rather part of a symbiotic system that must transcends itself, grow, and
evolve together in time.
~~~
zyxley
> I guess it has always been this way since I moved to SF (~5 years ago).
Are you accounting for the skyrocketing cost of living of SF? I'm guessing
that (as the article suggests as a general case) there are plenty of good
developers but they just plain want more money than you're offering.
~~~
lowglow
This is the difficult part. How do you accurately price for this market. I've
tried salary searches across whatever job boards I have access to, but how can
one be certain?
~~~
zyxley
If you're not getting enough people saying "yes", you're not offering enough
money.
~~~
irishcoffee
Or, there is a bubble about to pop.
------
fredophile
The article makes a really common mistake by confusing STEM and coding. A
surplus of people graduating with STEM degrees doesn't say anything about
whether or not there is a shortage of coders. I only have anecdotal data but
I'll bet if you break it down you'd find that there are some STEM majors that
have way more people than there are jobs for. This is especially true in
majors where you need a grad degree to find real work in your field. I'd also
guess that there are more coding jobs than CS degrees due to people coming out
of coding schools and other degrees that tend to have a lot of crossover like
math.
~~~
waterlesscloud
I would bet 80-90% of STEM grads could be trained to code. If there's a true
shortage, train some of those unemployed STEM people up. Invest some money in
them.
~~~
fredophile
If they want to learn to code there are plenty of options. Do you expect
companies like Facebook or Google to hire a bunch of biologists so they can
send them to a coding bootcamp?
~~~
waterlesscloud
If the employers are truly desperate, they should be considering the option.
Or I suppose they can just do without if they want to be stubborn.
~~~
fredophile
Let's assume that they do this and check how the numbers work out. Say the
program takes six months and they pay candidates $50000 a year while they're
taking it. Google is notorious for preferring false negatives in their
interview process to making bad hires so maybe 1 in 10 candidates gets offered
a job at the end. The program also costs money to run. They need teaching
staff, computers, space, etc. You're easily at over $300 000 and six months
latency to get one junior programmer. Alternatively, they could offer someone
more senior a $200 000 signing bonus, save a bunch of money and hire someone
experienced. Which do you think is a better way to invest their recruiting
money?
~~~
waterlesscloud
Move the 1 in 10 filtering up front, before they're hired in the first place.
And don't compare jr devs to sr devs since those aren't the same jobs to fill.
Even Google has jr jobs.
~~~
fredophile
Writing code is part of the typical interview/application process. The
hypothetical people in this process can't write code. How can a company pick
which ones will do well before they've been trained?
You're correct that big companies have positions for people at all levels.
However, they usually aren't willing to pay more to fill a junior position
than they'd need to pay to fill a more senior role.
~~~
waterlesscloud
I'm not sure how you come to the idea they pay trainee jrs more than
experienced srs, not without some crazy 10:1 hire:retain ratio.
And I'm confident it's possible to develop aptitude interview processes that
avoid 10:1 false positives.
The bottom line though, is this- If there's a genuine shortage, on the job
training is a solution with centuries of history behind it. If companies
aren't willing to train, they can't be that desperate.
~~~
fredophile
You seem overly hung up on the 10:1 thing. I'll summarize my argument without
any numbers: Currently there are cheaper ways for companies to recruit and
retain programming talent than paying for their training.
Here's another example to illustrate the point with more realistic numbers.
Using the same training program described above and an improved filter a
company can get one qualified graduate for every two people it sends through
the program. On the first day of work he company has invested $50 000 in this
new jr programmer. Alternatively, the company could offer a generous, $30
000-40 000, signing bonus to new qualified jr programmers and pocket the
difference. Hey can also structure the terms of this bonus so that it is
spread over one to two years to incentivize retention.
There are lots of real world training programs with qualified, motivated
students that have high failure/drop out ratios so I'd say 2:1 is reasonable
here.
I'm not saying that paid training is a bad idea. I am saying that it doesn't
make sense for most companies currently and they will continue to use cheaper
alternatives while they exist.
------
slantedview
When it comes to economic decisions, supply/demand is only one factor. Price
always matters - because businesses that choose to locate in high cost of
living areas are hiring human beings who have their own to pay, and regardless
of how many engineers exist in the market, those expenses are fixed. So either
companies pay up to get employees who can afford 3k/month 1 bedroom apartments
near their SF office, or they don't. There are solutions to this problem, but
it's not a supply problem.
------
ankurpatel
This is very correct. I feel in East Coast and other parts of US besides
California companies are underpaying their engineers and expect to get
talented people for a low annual salary. From experience this is especially
true in New York City where engineers in big banks get underpaid a lot and
could earn double the salary if they worked in California.
------
hw
I'm not exactly sure there's a shortage in tech workers. There is however, a
shortage in quality tech workers. I have been on the interview loop at my
company and we've been having lots of new college grads and junior software
engineers (and a handful of senior ones) who come in for interviews, but only
~10% of them are quality.
As for H1Bs taking up American jobs, I'm also not sure that's really an issue.
Assuming H1Bs were abolished, and existing H1Bs were told to go back to their
countries, would companies be able to fill that void - are there actually that
many skilled tech workers out there that aren't H1B? I'm curious....
~~~
x0x0
If wages rise there are.
There's a giant pool of highly skilled workers -- including friends of mine
who've left the bay area -- living in the south, west, and midwest, because of
the insane cost of living in the bay area. Fix that, and I personally know 4
very good senior (10+ years) engineers who would happily move back. But not
for $120k, and not even for $200k, as long as a 3 bed condo on the peninsula
costs $800k and comes with a 1.5 to 2 hour commute into sf for both parents.
------
pixel
There is no shortage of computer programmers. There is a distinct shortage of
_good_ programmers.
------
jdawg77
For what it's worth, thought I'd drop a bit of my story here since April. I
interviewed at Dropbox, ebay, Netflix and others after losing my job.
American, FWIW, with a California birth certificate and everything if it
matters. Did I get a job offer?
Not a single one.
More than a dozen interviews, zero offers but I can find consulting offers
(with far, far lower hourly wage than in 2006-2009 last time I did
consulting). I have friends who have been unable to find work also, with
skills, experience and blue chip, so to speak, resumes. Somehow saying we need
more skilled workers when folks in Silicon Valley with a decade of experience
who have worked for, and been given awards by, the biggest names in tech only
means that employers want it cheaper.
A friend on an H1B who lost their job? Gainfully employed in less than a month
after losing theirs, then again, they have to be seriously motivated else they
get shipped away. Until the new immigration policy gets passed where we export
jobless Californians to Oregon, my only option was to rebuild a consulting
business.
Funniest thing is, now that I'm an "Agency," again, I've had a list of people
wanting me to hire them. So it certainly feels like there is a lot more
unemployment out there than what I read in the media, at least with my
experience...of course, YMMV.
~~~
pm90
I'm sorry, I don't think your not being offered a job has anything to do with
your nationality. You might not be what they are looking for, plain and
simple. I wondered since you have 10 years of experience and are probably
interviewing for a senior position, maybe these were being filled with H1B
workers? From anecdotal evidence, that does not seem to be the case. Every
company I've worked for has had ~90% senior devs Americans. Management has
been even more so.
I might be wrong here, but I thought H1B labor was overwhelmingly being used
to fill lower paid, entry level or short-project kinda work and not being used
to replace full time employment. Again, from anecdotal evidence, most
companies I've worked with have always tried to hire domestically. And many of
the jobs I've applied to, the recruiter outright told me that they wouldn't
even consider noncitizens/non-gc holders.
~~~
jdawg77
I could be a full blown (insert explitive here) but I won't mention the name
of the company that they got hired at. Ironically, I also interviewed at same
company, though six months prior when I had a full time job.
Immigration is a tricky, tricky issue. When living overseas, the ambassador
from another country dropped a proverbial bombshell about the human
trafficking in the country where I lived. To whit, when living in Costa Rica
myself, I only found out on exit from the country my former employer never got
me a work permit - eg, I was working there illegally. I'd love to say yes, no
fault of my own, but I should have investigated the situation myself. Lesson
learned.
So having worked in labor myself a bit (helping people get jobs) and been on
multiple sides of various business disputes in various countries...well, the
situation in US employment in Silicon Valley is quite puzzling.
------
andyl
> "The real issue, say Salzman and others, is the industry’s desire for lower-
> wage, more-exploitable guest workers, not a lack of available American
> staff. 'It seems pretty clear that the industry just wants lower-cost
> labor'"
That has to be BS. Industry leaders and investors want to expand the labor
pool in the name of diversity, not to suppress wages. It's all about justice,
not profits. Someone better flag/kill this article, I'm offended.
~~~
arcosdev
what candy land do you live in?
~~~
powertower
After doing a double-take on it, I'm sure the post is sarcasm.
~~~
gonzi25
Sarcasm generally doesn't go over too well over here..
~~~
slantedview
Too many crazy posters who are dead serious.
------
ykumar6
This article is ridiculous. As a founder of a small startup in the bay-area, I
can tell you it's absolutely impossible to find mid-level engineers
experienced with Javascript, Node, Go, RoR, etc.
And if you can, you're paying 30-50% more than just a year ago.
~~~
epicureanideal
I assume you mean JavaScript and one of Node, Go, RoR, etc. as a server-side
language. If you mean the subset of engineers who are proficient in all of
those, then that's a pretty small set, but I assume you don't.
What is your standard for a mid-level engineer, and what would their salary
range be?
If I were to introduce you to some mid-level or upper-level talent, would you
pay typical recruiting fees plus provide some employment security to my
associates who pass your hiring process? Some startups have high turnover and
I wouldn't want to damage their career if you change your mind after hiring
them.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Most commonly used statistical tests and implementation in R - nafizh
http://r-statistics.co/Statistical-Tests-in-R.html
======
IndianAstronaut
Shapiro Wilk isn't all that useful with practical data unless your sample
sizes are fairly small. Once you deal with anything above 5000 values, you are
better off with QQ plots.
------
ekianjo
> If the p-Value is less than significance level (ideally 0.05),
Erm, no. P=0.05 is borderline meaningless, there could as much as 30% chance
you are wrong about the actual difference being there depending on the true
probability of the initial hypothesis.
P-values should be used with strong caution.
~~~
cetacea
Even better, p-values should not be used at all. If I have data in hand, I
want to use it to find out the probability that my hypothesis is true. But
p-value analysis requires me to instead ask a different question that I don't
really care about, involving whether my data are consistent with the null
hypothesis.
Everything is just so much more sensible if you allow yourself to assign
probabilities to hypotheses, rather than assuming a hypothesis from the outset
and computing opaque statistics relating to your data.
~~~
healer
There is in fact a probability attached to p-values. A p-value of 0.05 for
instance means your conclusions will be wrong 5 out of 100 times. You can
reduce the p-value to e.g. 0.001 or any other value you want.
~~~
cwyers
No, it means that the probability of seeing an effect of that magnitude on a
dataset of that size when the null hypothesis is true will happen due to
random chance 5 out of 100 times. It says NOTHING about your hypothesis, it is
entirely a statement about the null hypothesis.
------
minimaxir
It's also worth looking at the documentation in R for each of the functions
too. (can invoke with console with ?chisq.test for example).
For example, the chisq.test has optional _built-in_ Monte Carlo testing, and
none of the other functions do, oddly.
------
cloakanddagger
This is a great post! Bookmarking this for future reference.
------
hackaflocka
This is a good resource for those new to R.
R has some really good GUI layers now. I struggled and struggled for years
trying to learn the command line methods, but it was too much for me. The
following do a great job (these are alternatives)
\- Deducer
\- R Commander
\- RKWard
~~~
earino
It seems like this list is incomplete without mentioning that both RStudio[1]
and Jupyter[2] notebooks now have really first class support for R. There are
also two upstatrs, Rodeo[3] and Beaker[4] are doing cool stuff as well.
The company I work for, Domino Data Lab[5], let's you fire up a lot of these
notebooks in a nice hosted environment on big cloud servers with minimal cost
and effort. It's a fun way to learn how all these new environments can work
together. From RStudio for exploratory analysis, to Jupyter notebooks for
presenting a topic. The other two I haven't really found the superior use-
case. The tools in this space are just getting better and better.
1\. [https://www.rstudio.com/](https://www.rstudio.com/) 2\.
[http://jupyter.org/](http://jupyter.org/) 3\.
[http://blog.yhat.com/posts/introducing-
rodeo.html](http://blog.yhat.com/posts/introducing-rodeo.html) 4\.
[http://beakernotebook.com/](http://beakernotebook.com/) 5\.
[https://www.dominodatalab.com/](https://www.dominodatalab.com/)
~~~
minimaxir
> _Jupyter[2] notebooks now have really first class support for R._
Jupyter and R is a bit iffy since the R kernel is not native. Although the
kernel _works_ fine, setting it up has a ton of manually-installed
dependencies, and in-line plots flat-out give unexpected output. (I've had to
cheat by embeding charts via Markdown. Although that has the benefit of having
the charts be responsive)
The important perk is that Jupyter notebooks are now rendered natively on
GitHub, which I've made considerable use of: [https://github.com/minimaxir/sf-
arrests-when-where/blob/mast...](https://github.com/minimaxir/sf-arrests-when-
where/blob/master/crime_data_sf.ipynb)
~~~
stared
Manually setting it is hard (on OS X + Homebrew Python I did it after a long
fight; main problem: rmzq library). But... it is super easy with Anaconda:
[https://www.continuum.io/blog/developer/jupyter-and-
conda-r](https://www.continuum.io/blog/developer/jupyter-and-conda-r)
~~~
minimaxir
Huh, I thought conda was Python only. I'll definitely take a look!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The trouble with non-profits - wglb
http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/measurenonprofit
======
daydream
"But it does mean that if you’re involved in nonprofits (or predictions), you
need to be much more careful about making sure you’re doing a good job.
Unfortunately, few nonprofits do that."
Oh really? So he can cite research that says, for example, that only x% (where
x < 50%) of nonprofits with an annual budget of $500k have ever done any sort
of evaluation, either comprehensive or more basic?
His assertion may be true. But just throwing this out there with absolutely
nothing to back it up, in a blog post titled "The Trouble With Nonprofits", is
frankly insulting to me.
I spent > 4 years working in a technical role for a nonprofit, and I can
assure people that measurement and evaluation were very much on the minds of
staffers. Everyone (funders, management) was becoming more data-driven, so our
organization got a grant to conduct a multi-year evaluation. It was a very
positive and necessary process, and the results were very positive. Like
Aaron, I definitely recommend some sort of measurable goals for most every
nonprofit out there.
I don't take issue with his opinion. What I take issue with is the tone of the
article.
For example: "...but an actual attempt to measure how much they’re improving
people’s lives. For most nonprofits, I expect these numbers will be
depressingly small. "
It can be easy, as young paragons of technology and entrepreneurship, to look
over to the nonprofit world and disparage it, to think of it and it's
practitioners as "lesser than". I should know; it's the attitude I had before
I started working at a nonprofit.
Truth is, running a nonprofit can be a hell of a lot harder than running a
for-profit. At any stage, you have all the issues that for-profits have -
hiring, firing, managing employees, management issues, getting money in the
door, technological problems - PLUS a whole other layer.
A lot of this other layer comes because of the weak link between financial
health and results. Am I accomplishing my mission? How do I measure success?
How do I maximize success based on dollar spent? How do I judge where to
allocate capital or resources - when maximizing revenue isn't a goal?
Why am I wasting my time writing this? Because this article uses a lot of
conjecture and one very poor example to make the entire nonprofit sector seem
like a bunch of bumbling idiots who don't know how to use spreadsheets.
They're not, and it's not fair for this community to see such a distorted
view.
~~~
neeson
I've worked at two social ventures that had non-profits as clients (Web
Networks, and most recently Urbantastic.com).
There emphatically is something wrong with non-profits. Just because there are
some excellent ones (Sturgeon's law applies) doesn't mean that the field at
large isn't ill.
An anecdote: we had a meeting with a guy who worked at a large company with a
philanthropic streak. They provided, free of charge, a "dashboard" for
planning, along with free training and tech support to any non-profit that
wanted it (it cost considerable money otherwise). It was simple but very
powerful, allowing you to do sensitivity analyses on projections to determine
which courses of action would result in the best returns - both monetary and
any other metric you wanted to put in (i.e. the social goals of the project).
It was like he was selling popsicles at an ice rink.
We ran into a very similar issue with Urbantastic. We had a web service that
was very effective at getting small things done for non-profits: it's called
micro-volunteering. There's no supervision required, you just write down what
you want and someone always did it.
When we founded Urbantastic we thought the challenge was going to be in
getting skilled people to help out for free. That was not a problem. The
problem was that we'd go up to non-profits and say: here's a machine where all
you have to do is post your todo list, and people will cross off items for
you. For free. And we never got uptake.
People lined out the door offering to help, and almost no one took them up on
it. Despite our offers to walk non-profits through it, and despite the recent
funding cuts which meant that they needed all the help they could get.
I'm not saying that Urbantastic is perfect, but in our pilot cities this was
overwhelmingly the result, and I still can't think of any incremental change
that we could have done to get the non-profits engaged. A big part of it was
that most of them were still uncertain about the whole email thing. It's not
an exaggeration to say that some of them didn't know how to use a spreadsheet.
With our fancy web 2.0 ajaxy website, we felt like we were giving out iTunes
gift cards to the lost tribes of Papua New Guinea. They didn't value it
because they weren't even close to being at the point where they could use it.
I care about social good - I wouldn't have founded a social venture if not.
And twice now I've been floored by the state of the non-profit world. Again,
10% of them are brilliant, but the other 90%... It's a big problem, and it's
not going to get better by pretending that it's not there. That world is
amazingly backwards. And it's saddening to see such important mandates being
handled by such ineffective organizations.
My advice to anyone here planning on doing a social venture: drop backwards
compatibility with the non-profit world. (one giant caveat: working
exclusively with one or two of the few clued-in orgs might work).
~~~
djm
A lot of what you are saying here resonates with me. I work part-time for a
local charity in my town and have been involved in various others at times.
There are a number of problems charities normally face which may explain your
findings to some extent, including:
\- well meaning but incompetent staff. People don't seem to understand that
wanting to do good doesn't naturally translate into the ability to do it.
\- no real management. I suppose this may be local phenomenon, but where I am
(UK), there seems to be a tendency for small charities to be managed by
wealthy housewives as a kind of hobby job. There is very definitely a social
network of them that dominate the charities in my town. Often this means the
management will be consistently absent from the organization. You can also see
my previous point.
\- no real check on the management. Charity trustees are often people who just
want their name to be associated with a charitable organization. I can think
of several trustees of the charity I work for who probably have only a vague
idea of what we actually do.
\- funding constraints. Charities in the UK who receive funding from
government departments are usually monitored in terms of the volume of work
they do rather than the outcomes they produce (which are much harder to
quantify). Thus the incentive is often to not try to improve efficiency as
reducing the work load may negatively impact funding.
Obviously my examples are to some extent just personal experiences that may
not be universal. However I would guess that most non-profits face similar
problems and that these problems may help explain why you got such a negative
reception with your projects.
With regards to volunteers though, what did you to do assess their competency
to perform the tasks they were willing to help out with? I ask because part of
my job is to manage my organization's volunteers (which mostly come to us on
work experience placements from the job centre). They frequently start working
for us claiming to have various skills and then we discover that they often
don't. For this reason I am usually quite unhappy about accepting new
volunteers - when I have to get rid of them is is much harder (emotionally,
for me) than sacking an incompetent employee. This might also help explain
some of the resistance you encountered to what you were doing.
------
Dove
> This isn't to say that we should have companies replace nonprofits
Yes we should.
Charities I donate to are selling me a product just as much as companies I buy
from. That the product is a better world--by some measure that seems
reasonable to me, rather than a simple benefit for myself, matters not a whit
to my decision making process.
I don't give without a very concrete understanding of what the money will be
used for, any more than I buy stock without a concrete understanding of what
I'm buying and for how much.
By all means, sell me peace, charity, and goodwill! Perhaps that will motivate
you to learn how to produce it, and to convince me that you have done so.
~~~
rapind
For-profit companies selling you goods and services often spend enormous
amounts on marketing, advertising, and branding in order to convince you to
part with your hard earned money. This doesn't mean their product is any
better than their competitors though. It just means they've spun you into
believing it is.
While I think it's a good idea to research your charity or donation to a non-
profit, I definitely do not think they should operate like a for-profit
business.
I think this is a great article, and there are some really pointed areas of
improvement for non-profits. However, let's not turn to the free market gods
for a solution please.
~~~
cwan
I think it really depends on the specific area/charitable cause - but where it
comes to economic development, markets are a far better solution than
charities and aid which have often done far more harm than good (e.g. food
aid). In general, the potential for inefficiency and even fraud is arguably
even higher given the lack of transparency and often weak governance).
Anyone who donates money to a charity should at least spend as much time
researching what they're "selling" as they would a comparable product/service.
The tax returns are available but some of these firms spend as much as 80% of
their funds raised in administration and overhead - which is often far worse
than most for profits. Yes, not for profits also "often spend enormous amounts
on marketing, advertising, and branding in order to convince you to part with
your hard earned money".
Fortunately at least anyone can look up any charity's IRS Form 990 that lists
such things as salaries (which are sometimes as much if not higher than
private market salaries). I usually start here: <http://www.guidestar.org/>
(using bugmenot for login/password)
------
tokenadult
As a board member of two very active nonprofit organizations, and former board
member of another, I really appreciate the suggestion to devote attention to
demonstrable results. I'll bring that up at our next board meeting for each
organization. It's easy to track membership, and reasonably routine to track
member satisfaction in membership organizations, and some organizations set
policy goals (within the scope of the IRS rules about political activity by
some kinds of nonprofits) that are verifiable. But, yes, organizations doing
work far from most supporters (e.g., foreign relief organizations or
missionary organizations) often can gain funds for years without having to
show results. It's regrettable when a willing donor isn't giving money to best
effect.
~~~
jseliger
"But, yes, organizations doing work far from most supporters (e.g., foreign
relief organizations or missionary organizations) often can gain funds for
years without having to show results. It's regrettable when a willing donor
isn't giving money to best effect."
Not to be a shill for my own blog again, but the reason so few organizations
run real evaluations is that it's really, really hard, expensive, and time-
consuming to do. Consequently, funders by and large don't offer real money or
incentives for it, and if they don't, there's not much of an impetus to
improve, and I describe this basic idea in much greater detail here:
[http://blog.seliger.com/2008/04/24/studying-programs-is-
hard...](http://blog.seliger.com/2008/04/24/studying-programs-is-hard-to-do-
why-its-hard-to-write-a-compelling-evaluation)
Furthermore, some funders don't want real evaluations, even if they say
otherwise; for example, we wrote a bunch of Community-Based Abstinence
Education proposals for various clients, where the main purpose of the
evaluation was to try and demonstrate that abstinence-only education works,
and I described the problems with that in this post:
[http://blog.seliger.com/2008/10/12/what-to-do-when-
research-...](http://blog.seliger.com/2008/10/12/what-to-do-when-research-
indicates-your-approach-is-unlikely-to-succeed-part-i-of-a-case-study-on-the-
community-based-abstinence-education-program-rfp)
~~~
cturner
The pool of funds is often not fixed. A non-profit can make themselves more
competitive for available funds by providing metrics.
~~~
jseliger
That's true in theory but not in practice because most funders don't care,
which is a point I describe further in the posts linked to above.
------
russell
I take his essay to mean that, if you want results, measure results and hold
them to it. Chess experts are experts because they are measured by their
results. Political pundits are hit hit or miss because they are not held
accountable for their results. Non-profits should be measured by their
results, not their process, PR, or grants. Makes sense to me, but quantifiable
results are often hard to get, witness the discussions here about how to to
tell goo programmers from bad.
~~~
fatdog789
How do you measure the "results" of a non-profit, when most of them work in
non-quantifiable fields?
You end up with the quantity versus quality argument, favoring large,
superficial efforts over narrowly tailored, substantive efforts.
~~~
patio11
_How do you measure the "results" of a non-profit, when most of them work in
non-quantifiable fields?_
If McDonalds can work out how to quantify feeding hungry people then any
charity working in Africa should be able to quantify feeding hungry people. If
an insurance company can tell me the average lifespan of their clients to six
decimal places and what exactly the risk factors are among that pool, then
health-focused charities should be able to do it as well. etc, etc
(I have some familiarity with the literature and know the excuses for why
charities operating in Africa with mobile phones and computers can't be
expected to have as good a handle on their numbers as a British bank circa
1780. Yeah yeah, it must be difficult when you rely on globally distributed
workers, many of whom are not literate. Oh wait, so does McDonalds.)
------
joanna
Another important thing to remember when comparing non-profits and companies
is the power of the customer. Companies go bankrupt because the customer has
the power to discontinue their patronage if they deliver a product or service
poorly (unless there are anticompetitive practices in play - ahem comcast).
However, in the non-profit world the recipient of the service or products has
very little power to motivate a market. Those who contribute money to non-
profits could theoretically be this force, but does someone who wants to
invest in reducing malaria really have to invest in understanding the health
metrics and do this assessment with each investment? I don't think that is a
permanent solution either. No doubt feedback and accountability are vital to
making non-profts more successful, but let's challenge ourselves to think of a
more systematic way to implement this type of change rather than summing with
measurement is needed.
~~~
stcredzero
_Companies go bankrupt because the customer has the power to discontinue their
patronage if they deliver a product or service poorly_
This definitely happens to many kinds of non-profit!
_in the non-profit world the recipient of the service or products has very
little power to motivate a market._
For 501-c3 organizations that provide classes, lectures, and performances,
often the _opposite_ is the case. Many non-profits have to be run much like a
business. There can be something like a marketplace where the "customer" pays
not with currency, but with their time. (And sometimes, both money and time
are involved.) Also, very often, the "recipient" of services can easily
directly involve themselves with running the organization. (KPFT radio in
Houston is an example of this.)
~~~
anamax
>> Companies go bankrupt because the customer has the power to discontinue
their patronage if they deliver a product or service poorly
>This definitely happens to many kinds of non-profit!
Unless I missed the sarcasm, it doesn't happen with charitable non-profits.
They die when funding dries up, and since their customers don't provide
funding, their customers have little/no effect on their survival.
Yes, a charity can continue to exist long after folks stop showing up to
receive services.
~~~
dagw
_since their customers don't provide funding_
That depends on your point of view. I'd argue that the people supplying the
funding are the customers and that the work they do and people they help is
the service they provide. So if their customers aren't happy with the quality
of the service they'll take their money somewhere else, exactly like in the
for profit case.
~~~
yummyfajitas
The problem is the customers of nonprofits often cannot measure the results
themselves.
If McDonald's serves me a burger that is inedible, I know about it immediately
and can stop patronizing McD's.
If Burgers4Africa distributes inedible burgers in Somalia, how do I know about
it?
~~~
stcredzero
My point is that often the customers _can_ measure the results. The article is
worded as if this applies to _all_ non-profits.
------
enra
This is why I don't donate. Charities usually don't publish exact reports
what's the money is used on and what have they achieved.
Building schools doesn't help if you don't hire teachers and get kids attend
school and money used on clever guilt marketing doesn't solve ecological
problems.
------
netsp
_"This isn’t to say that we should have companies replace non-profits..."_
Actually, that is not necessarily a good thing to just sidestep. A lot of
things that non profits work on might work better if they were worked on by
companies. A lot of things that companies work on might have to be filled by
non profits if companies weren't doing it.
Think of second hand stores. They are often run not-for-profit in order to
provide cheap stuff to poor people. These compete directly with commercial low
cost stores and other second hand stores. If these beat the non profits, there
is no societal loss. One of the worlds most celebrated not for profits, the
Grameen Bank provides small loans to poor people. It seems very possible that
this NGO (and its many imitators) will be put out of business by commercial
banks.
The UN has started a free online University to help the world's poor. I would
take an either-or bet on for profit variants making a lot of progress on this
issue commercially.
A great way of making non profits more like chess masters is making non
profits into businesses. You don't always have to. But if it is feasible, its
worht considering.
~~~
carbon8
_"Grameen Bank provides small loans to poor people. It seems very possible
that this NGO (and its many imitators) will be put out of business by
commercial banks."_
Traditional, for-profit banking simply can't, which is the entire point. Even
when microfinance institutions lean further toward for-profit, they end up
more and more like traditional banks making traditional big loans.
And that's the way it actually moves, with microfinance institutions edging
toward becoming more commercialized, and when they drift too far away from
poorer clients, new micro institutions will likely come in to take their
place. In other words, the shift naturally moves in the opposite direction.
~~~
skybrian
Compartamos in Mexico is a for-profit bank making microloans. There's some
controversy about that:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/business/worldbusiness/05m...](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/business/worldbusiness/05micro.html)
~~~
carbon8
Indeed, it's former NGO that aggressively went for-profit. That's a good
article and sums up some of the major debates around latin american
microfinance.
The problem with for-profit microfinance is that, as a general rule, financial
performance increases with loan size, and that's why commercialization is a
cause for concern, along with a lot of the other baggage that comes with
commercialization like pressure to increase profits and employee incentive
programs that negatively impact service toward small clients.
Compartamos accounts for the problems of the small loan market (notably the
inability to determine which borrows are good or not) the same way
moneylenders needed to before them, by charging very high interest rates. But
this ends up screening out lower end borrowers, hence the discussion of
"mission drift."
Commercial banks have long dabbled in elements of microfinance, but there are
fairly concrete obstacles, mostly operational and information-related issues,
that make it tough to be profitable, and even tougher to approach it as
strictly for-profit while continuing to be actual microfinance.
------
wglb
This is also interesting in how it relates to the study of airplane crashes
and the strong, relatively immediate feedback that these provide. It seems
that auto safety was much more slow to catch on, and required odd forces to
bring the topic to the forefront.
This also has an interesting interaction with a small startup essentially
searching for the important metric for its survival.
~~~
cwan
For profits have the benefit of having profit/positive cash flow as a guide
that not for profits do not. These are probably much better metrics for small
startups given that success in any stated altruistic endeavours are ultimately
going to show up in these two metrics anyway (and must in order for a startup
to be sustainable).
------
baran
This is _one_ of the reasons why non-profit companies are flawed. There are no
incentives in place for monetary gain. Non-profits are good at raising
awareness, not being a sustainable entity.
If someone wants to make a difference and change world (especially developing
countries), I believe there has to be financial incentives : _social
entrepreneurship_.
~~~
billswift
If you can't make money doing something, is there any good evidence that it is
worth doing at all? Leaving aside goods with "free" competition from the gov't
(schools, roads, libraries, etc). EDIT: Also leaving aside things you do for
your more direct benefit, like growing your own food or contributing to open
source projects you use.
~~~
fhars
Did you really ask "is there any value in leading a moral life if it doesn't
pay off financially?"
Non-profits do not actually aim at financial gain (duh!), so measuring their
success in monetary term is an error of categories. Of course it is difficult
to assess success of an endeavour like that, and Aaron is right in raising
awarness for these difficulties, but forcing an inappropriate kind of
measurement (did your non-profit make enough profit?) on them doesn't help
solving this problem.
The correct question to ask are "what are our goals?" "How do we go about
reaching our goals?" "Did our past activities in fact further our goals?" and
so on. "how much more money did we raise and distribute" may factor in the
analysis, but on its own it is pretty meaningless.
~~~
billswift
There are many reasons to do things other than money, but when you are dealing
with people that you don't personally or directly know the fact that they are
willing to pay for your services is basically the only real signal you have as
to whether you are benefiting them. And if you are not making more doing this
(for a combination of monetary and non-monetary benefits) than you could
something else, then you need to switch to a better use of your time.
Of course, the contributors benefit from donating money, etc by signalling
effects and warm fuzzies, but that doesn't mean the recipients are benefiting
nearly as much as the contributors are spending.
~~~
billswift
As Friedman put it in "Machinery of Freedom", there are basically only three
ways to work with others - love or shared goals, free exchange, or coercion.
------
chaostheory
"Making a bad prediction isn’t like that... it’s months or years before your
prediction is proven wrong. And then, you make yourself feel better by coming
up with some explanation for why you were wrong: ...And so you keep on making
predictions in the same way — which means you never get good at it."
I think this also applies to many macro-economists
------
fhars
There is of coure a very important problem charities trying to do this kind of
measurments of efficiency face. They are in a market for public perceptiom to
get donations, and (if we take the numbers the article cites for Oxfam), can
you imagine the loss of donations and goodwill after a few newspapers and TV
programs run the headline "Charity X spends half their donations on statistics
instead of helping people!"? Even if the costs could be amortized over a few
years, the charity would be dead by then.
Perverse incentive factors, again. (And the news might be right, collecting in
depth statistics about the help program might just be a pretext to give a
lucrative consulting contract to the director's best friend).
------
chasingsparks
I would argue that there is a second, equally-important, albeit interrelated,
problem with non-profits in general: they are highly risk averse. Many non-
profits still operate under a create an endowment and dispense funds to proven
-- or at least perceptive -- good projects model. Consequently, there is a "if
it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, which is to say weak experimentation.
I should mention that most of my non-profit experience deals with medical
research foundations. Political think tanks are limited by the general
impossibility of proving all but trivial problems.
------
netsp
Does anyone have a recommendation for a charity with demonstrable results in
improving the lives of people in a measurable way?
~~~
aaronsw
<http://givewell.net/> investigates charities to make sure they achieve
demonstrable results, they have a list of those that do.
There are also meta-charities like GiveWell and the MIT Poverty Action Lab
that investigate other charitable attempts.
~~~
blasdel
_Fuck that noise_ \-- if you'd have even bothered to google their name, you'd
have found that Givewell are total scumbags:
[http://metatalk.metafilter.com/15547/GiveWell-or-Give-em-
Hel...](http://metatalk.metafilter.com/15547/GiveWell-or-Give-em-Hell)
Summaries: <http://mssv.net/wiki/index.php/Givewell>
They got caught out because they were blatantly astroturfing for themselves
and slagging 'competing' charities all over the web. Then it turns out that
even by their own generous accounting, more than half of their funds goes
directly to their own overhead. On top of that, their 'research' is at best
based on getting charities to rigorously assess themselves.
Their rubberstamp board publicly (in the NYT) pretended to fire one of the
founders, but less than a year later he was quietly back at his old position.
~~~
netsp
You would expect that any organisation doing this kind of work would attract
criticism. There is a taboo against harming a charities ability to raise
funds.
Do you know of any organisation doing similar but better?
~~~
req2
There's <http://www.charitynavigator.org/>, and the arguments against:
[http://tacticalphilanthropy.com/2007/11/charity-
navigator%E2...](http://tacticalphilanthropy.com/2007/11/charity-
navigator%E2%80%99s-vital-mission-hides-flawed-rankings)
------
riffer
This is extensible well beyond non-profits. The general form is still rough in
my mind but it is something like "avoid situations where accountability and
feedback mechanisms are not essential parts of the environment"
------
yankeeracer73
A good book just came out about this very issue:
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0470454679/ref=ox_ya_os_pro...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0470454679/ref=ox_ya_os_product)
------
MaysonL
Of course, if one looks at the profit-seeking world, one sees multiple
examples of organizations blind to feedback: GM springs to mind these days.
~~~
billswift
True, but responding to feedback is a lot harder than being aware of it. And
especially so in a larger organization. I'm not so sure that GM's problems
stemmed from not being aware of the problems as not being able to respond for
various structural, legal, and social reasons.
------
req2
Somewhat related, on charity: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=800663>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The 2002 mandate for internal communication systems at Amazon - anacleto
https://www.sametab.com/blog/frameworks-for-remote-working
======
Twirrim
Yegge's post was very interesting reading, and I took similar learnings away
from it. I was at Amazon at the time, however, and there were things that
certainly weren't true any more:
>3) There will be no other form of interprocess communication allowed: no
direct linking, no direct reads of another team’s data store, no shared-memory
model, no back-doors whatsoever. The only communication allowed is via service
interface calls over the network.
API first... except if you want to be a number of certain new services that
somehow managed to get away with not presenting an API, even though an API
would make every service team's life easier.
> 5) All service interfaces, without exception, must be designed from the
> ground up to be externalizable. That is to say, the team must plan and
> design to be able to expose the interface to developers in the outside
> world. No exceptions.
Except, similar to above, where teams apparently decided they didn't want to
think that way at all and management just let them.
> 6) Anyone who doesn’t do this will be fired.
Unless your exception is perceived providing value to the company. Then you'll
get lauded, and everyone is told they'll need to use your js laden, web only
interface, and to hell with any automation.
Mostly those exceptions just codified further in my mind about just how right
the Bezos email Yegge paraphrased actually was.
~~~
leoh
How do services talk to each other without an API? Is it something like "put a
non-well-documented object into a queue?"
~~~
morelisp
A queue if you're lucky!
There's also:
\- Hire an intern / "Customer Service Representative" / "Technical Account
Specialist" to manually copy data from one service into another
\- Dump some file in a directory and hope something is treating that directory
like a queue
\- Read/write from the same database (/ same table)
Or the classic Unix trajectory of increasingly bad service communication:
\- Read/write from the same local socket and (hopefully) same raw memory
layouts (i.e. C structs) (because you've just taken your existing serialized
process and begun fork()ing workers)
\- that, but with some mmap'd region (because the next team of developers
doesn't know how to select())
\- that, but with a local file (because the next team of developers doesn't
know how to mmap())
\- that, but with some NFS file (for scaling!)
\- that, but with some hadoop fs file (for big data!)
Obviously all of these are at some level an 'application programming
interface'. But then, technically so is rowhammering the data you want into
the next job.
~~~
saalweachter
Don't forget the most important step.
"Think of the acronym CSV. Don't look up the definition of the format, just
meditate on the idea of the format for a bit. Then write your data in the
format you have just imagined is CSV, making whatever choices you feel
personally best or most elegant regarding character escapes. Pass this file on
to your downstream readers, assuring them it is a CSV file, without
elaborating on how you have redefined that."
~~~
wanderer2323
This is awesome, where does it come from? Google does not give me anything.
~~~
saalweachter
The quotation marks are stylistic rather than for attribution.
My personal experience comes from ingesting product feeds from online stores.
Misapplication of \ from other encodings was the most common sin, but I'm
pretty sure I saw about three dozen others, from double-comma to null-
terminated strings to re-encoding offending characters as hex escapes. (And,
of course, TSV files called CSV files, with the same suite of problems.)
------
eigen-vector
This was not exactly a Jeff Bezos mandate but the result of an engineering
brainstorm. The mandate came more out of a "how to scale Amazon for the next
decade" discussion. In large companies, one where distributed/independent
teams are as important as distributed systems this ended up being the only way
to operate.
Initially, during the good old days of Amazon, there was what you'd call a
single datawarehouse. It made sense initially for every system that processed
an order to access the data by querying that data warehouse—this meant that
the processes would be distributed (different services), while the data would
be centralized. It also meant that any change to the way the data is stored in
the datawarehouse meant deploying code to a hundred places.
The most important problem that this addressed was however different. A
centralized datawarehouse meant that every customer request bubbled up into N
queries to the datawarehouse (where N is the number of services that needed
access to the data—billing, ordering, tracking...).
The mandate summarized in one line would be this—"the data is the one that
should go to the services, not the other way round." Voila, microservices.
~~~
dang
Ok, we'll take Bezos out of the title above.
~~~
eigen-vector
Thank you, dang! This is certainly a more accurate title.
------
throwawayy98121
Hi! I’m a senior engineer at Amazon. Throwaway account but I’ll try to respond
to questions if anyone cares to ask.
Yeah we use services heavily, but there’s plenty of teams dumping data to S3
or using a data lake.
There’s also the “we need to do this but management doesn’t see value so let’s
dump it on the intern or SDE 1, who we won’t really mentor or guide and then
blame, forcing them to switch teams as soon as they can.”
If you work at another company and think we have our stuff figured out at
Amazon, we really don’t. We have brilliant people, many of who are straight up
assholes who will throw you under the bus. We have people who are kind and
will help you gain all kinds of engineering skills. We also have people who
are scum of the Earth shit people who work at Amazon because I don’t think any
other sane company or workplace would tolerate them. We have extremes on the
garbage people end of the spectrum, unfortunately.
Sorry long rant - point being - it’s good to learn how we do things. The
internal email on services is pretty unique. I learned about it when I was an
SDE 1 back in the day. But - don’t take it as gospel. It doesn’t mean you need
to build services.
I can think of any number of examples where we follow anti patterns because no
one gives a shit about the pattern, whether it’s a service, a bucket, a queue,
or a file attached to the system used for scrum tasks, or shit passed over
email... we care about value at the end of the day. If you don’t provide
sufficient value at Amazons bar, they have no problem tossing you out the
window.
------
xyzzyz
> While the third point makes all the difference in the world, what Amazon
> really did get right that Google didn’t was an internal communication system
> designed to make all the rest possible.
> Having teams acting like individual APIs and interacting with one another
> through interfaces over the network was the catalyst of a series of
> consequent actions that eventually made possible the realization of AWS in a
> way that couldn’t have been possible otherwise.
Google has worked this way since time immemorial. That’s what protocol buffers
are for: to create services and pass data between them using well defined
interfaces.
~~~
gowld
A protocol buffer is a serialized data object, not a service API. It doesn't
(and didn't) prevent anyone from using shared memory, shared database, or
shared flat files to communicate.
Also, 2002 _is_ time immemorial. Google was founded in 1998.Protocol buffers
were invented in 2001.
~~~
atombender
Protobufs were invented for Stubby, the RPC layer which is apparently used for
absolutely everything inside Google. It's existed since at least 2001, and
uses protobufs as the RPC serialization. gRPC is based on Stubby (though not
the actual implementation).
~~~
repolfx
Yeah. Google is actually a much better example of this mentality than Amazon
is, if I'm reading the thread right. Google Cloud isn't behind AWS because of
some service architecture nonsense. It's behind because Google started later,
and it started later because for the longest time (I was there) the senior
management had the following attitude:
_" Why would we sell our cloud platform? We can always make more money and
have higher leverage by running our own services on it and monetising with
ads; merely selling hardware and software services is a comparatively
uninteresting and low margin business."_
Selling Google's platform (and it really _is_ a platform) is an obvious idea
that occurred to everyone who was there. It didn't happen because of explicit
executive decision, not because Bezos was some kind of savant.
I think Google could have really dominated the cloud space if they'd been a
bit more strategic. The problems were all cultural, not technological. For
instance they are culturally averse to trusted partnerships of any kind (not
just Google of course, that's a tech industry thing). There are only two
levels of trust:
\- Internal employee, nearly fully trusted.
\- External person or firm, assumed to be a highly skilled malicious attacker
There's nothing in between. So if your infrastructure can't handle the most
sophisticated attack you can think of, it can't be externalised at all. If it
can't scale automatically to a million customers overnight, it can't be
externalised at all.
There's really no notion in Google's culture of "maybe we should manually vet
companies and give them slightly lower trust levels than our employees in
return for money". It's seen as too labour intensive and not scalable enough
to be interesting. But it'd have allowed them to dominate cloud technology
years earlier than AWS or Azure.
~~~
rwmj
I have to wonder if maybe Google's management weren't right. Why are Google in
cloud, a low margin business?
------
sputknick
I worked at an organization that had a similar declaration. Here's how it
played out:
1\. Everyone is super excited for other teams to share their data
2\. Everyone wants an exception from sharing their own data because it's too
hard or too sensitive to share.
3\. Eventually everything gets shared, but it takes 3-4 times longer than it
really should.
~~~
rb808
4\. A couple of years later you want to stop an obsolete interface but you
can't because a handful of systems use it and they dont have budget to change.
~~~
jrd259
True this happens, but you're still better off that if you had tight coupling.
In the absolute worst case you can make a shim implementation to support the
obsolete use case. You can not do this when callers are directly reading your
database/memory structure.
~~~
wil421
Yep, I’ve implemented new ticketing systems that have to talk to the ancient
ticket system for certain things or vice versa. The ancient system had direct
DB connections that had too many down/upstream dependencies and not enough
budget or political backing.
------
lytfyre
IIRC when Yegge accidentally posted that rant, the entirety of Amazon corp got
IP banned from Hacker News from _everyone_ rushing to view and comment.
------
FrojoS
Something like Conway’s Law was also recently cited by Elon Musk (jump to
3:30)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/dbttaw/everyd...](https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/dbttaw/everyday_astronaut_a_conversation_with_elon_musk/)
~~~
degenerate
Direct link to 3:30:
[https://youtu.be/cIQ36Kt7UVg?t=206](https://youtu.be/cIQ36Kt7UVg?t=206)
------
goatinaboat
At a previous company, a senior manager took Yegge’s blog post and presented
it internally as his own original work.
Hilarity ensued.
------
tomduncalf
Found the original post from Yegge a really interesting and thought provoking
read. Didn’t realise from the context that he originally accidentally posted
it as a public rather than private Google+ post!
His follow up post explaining this, and with an interesting anecdote about
presenting to Jeff Bezos, is archived here (seeing as G+ has, ironically (or
not) given the context, shut down):
[https://gist.github.com/dexterous/1383377#file-the-post-
retr...](https://gist.github.com/dexterous/1383377#file-the-post-retraction-
message)
------
darksaints
At least as of 3 years ago when I left, the software systems that drove the
mandate towards SOA were still massive systems that communicated almost purely
through a monolithic Oracle database. It was the software system(s) that was
responsible for all automation and accounting at fulfillment centers. This is
one of those rare times where I actually think a full rewrite from scratch
would have been a better idea.
~~~
dodobirdlord
They got there in the end.
[https://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/amazon-
fulfill...](https://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/amazon-fulfillment-
aurora/)
------
prepend
I wish the actual body of the email was available and published. I’ve only
read Yegge’s account of the note and didn’t see it in any of Bezos’ books.
I suppose it’s nice that the email, or really any amazon emails, has not been
leaked.
~~~
boldslogan
I only could find his autobiography. What other books does he have / wrote?
~~~
prepend
Brad Stone wrote a Bezos/Amazon bio called “Everything Store.”
------
Waterluvian
> 6) Anyone who doesn’t do this will be fired.
So I've never worked at a company over 150 people. Is this... a normal thing
for an email? Maybe I'm just one of those softies but an email with that line
would throw me off my day and cause a serious hit to my morale and confidence
of working there.
~~~
jeffbarr
I strongly believe that Steve was exaggerating for effect here. In my 17 years
at Amazon I have never seen or heard of a threat of this nature. The overall
intent of the email was to tell teams to decouple, decentralize, and to own
their own destinies.
~~~
solarengineer
An ex Netflix person, who has since moved to Amazon, spoke at a client place
three weeks ago. He casually mentioned things such as "we forgive the first
time, and we fire the second time". From how he spoke, we felt that this may
be the norm in Silicon Valley and related places.
I have much respect for what he has achieved, so I didn't interrupt to
question such a fear-inducing mindset.
~~~
everdrive
With such important services as streaming Seinfeld, it's easy to see why such
a scorched earth policy is necessary.
~~~
dodobirdlord
There are compounding productivity boosts available when a team can all trust
each other to basically never cut corners or make sloppy mistakes. Removing a
tenth team member who is not up to the bar of the rest of the team can make
the remaining 9 members each more than 11% more productive.
Of course, this strategy has its downsides. You can't ever hire juniors. You
can't really hire people in and train them up at all, because everything has
been built under the assumption that only experts will ever touch it. This
makes an organization that operates like this inherently parasitic to the
industry, only capable of hiring in experienced employees from other
companies.
------
ineedasername
The article mentions this as dog fooding, but does that really apply here? Did
they do this with the idea in mind that they'd turn this stuff into a product?
It struck me as Bezos wanting things built for the future, reducing technical
debt, and the product-ification was an excellent byproduct, but perhaps not
intentional.
~~~
morelisp
At the time Amazon was building out their merchant portal as a white-label-ish
service for other large retailers to sell products online. The 'customers' in
the memo would be other merchants, and the early AWS offering (e.g. SQS)
reflect this. "Elastic" clouds weren't really on the menu yet but obviously
part of the point is that you can offer it to customers regardless of where
the architectural fad goes.
~~~
function_seven
I remember the early days of target.com and (I think?) toysrus.com being
thinly skinned versions of Amazon.
~~~
gowld
Yep. Also one of the large British retailers and a few others.
------
duxup
Eat your own dogfood.
You can't sell to customers effectively if your flagship product only works
because it has access to resources the customers will never have... and it is
designed around that flagship's needs and not your customer's needs.
~~~
morelisp
AWS is largely a side-effect of this memo, not its instigator. At the time,
Amazon's dog food would be books/clothes/literal dog food.
------
dang
Yegge's article never says it was an email. What should the title be?
Edit: I've taken a rather lame crack at it and am open to improvements.
~~~
jcrites
The circumstances that Yegge described happened somewhat before my time, but I
suppose you could call it an "internal goal" or "internal mandate".
Amazon's not really big on "mandates" in general, but the term seems to fit
Yegge's characterization of what happened. "Internal goal" would be another
way to phrase it. E.g., "The single most important technical goal in the
history of Amazon".
------
Invictus0
A lot of interesting thoughts here but the author doesn't really wrap them
into a conclusion. A whole lot of words to say "they all work and it depends".
------
cm2012
I love some of Amazon's executive policies. From what I've read, everyone has
to write a multi-page paper before executive meetings, and everyone has to
read it, so the meeting goes smoothly with everyone understanding the issues.
I hate how no one reads anything in most organizations.
~~~
kylek
Not sure about execs, but this happens in engineering meetings (regarding new
features being implemented or other semi-major changes). Whoever is initiating
the meeting writes up a paper describing the terminology, the nature of the
change and why it's needed, how it will be implemented etc. The entire dev
team (+ maybe other dev teams within the group), management (the initiator's
boss + 1 level above, maybe other dev team managers too) start the meeting
with hard printouts of the paper, armed with red pens. The meeting "starts"
with ~15 mins or so of silence for everyone to review the paper in the room
from start to finish. Then the paper is reviewed end to end and torn up on the
way. Often there are multiple of these meetings (i.e. first one went badly or
if things change along the way of building/implementing it and questions come
up)
~~~
QuercusMax
That sounds like a low-fi, synchronous, in-person version of reviewing a
Google Doc (with comments, suggestions, etc).
~~~
plandis
I’ve generally found that forcing people to dedicate time to read and discuss
a design is more fruitful than a google doc
------
jrochkind1
> what Amazon really did get right that Google didn’t was an internal
> communication system designed to make all the rest possible.
I'm not following what he means. What is the thing he is describing as "an
internal communication system" here? That made all the rest possible? What
is/was this internal communications system?
~~~
akhilcacharya
I'm assuming Yegge was referring to the RPC framework.
~~~
jrochkind1
"an internal communication system" does sound like something like an "RPC
framework", but Yegge's paraphrase actually says "It doesn’t matter what
technology they use. HTTP, Corba, Pubsub, custom protocols — doesn’t matter.
Bezos doesn’t care."
I read this as saying different teams/services don't have to use the same
thing either. That doesn't sound like an "RPC framework" or "an internal
communications system" at all. It seems to leave the door open to everyone
doing things in a diverse mishmash. Which isn't what I'd call "an internal
communications system" at all.
But was/is there in fact an Amazon-specific "RPC framework", that all Amazon
services use, some consistent framework used consistently accross services? I
haven't heard much about this before so am curious to learn more. I haven't
heard of an Amazon 'RPC framework' before, or what it's called, or what. And
OP doesn't specify it either; does the rest of the audience know what's being
talked about, and I'm just missing context?
If _that_ is the thing that the OP thinks is really what Amazon got right...
then the interesting thing is figuring out how it went from the paraphrased
email, which doesn't actually demand such a thing, to.... such a thing. Who
designed or chose this "RPC framework"? When? How? How'd they get everyone to
use the same one? If _that 's_ the thing Amazon got right, there are some
steps missing between the Yegge-paraphrased email and there, since the email
doesn't actually even call for such a thing.
Or is that not what happened at all, and I'm still not sure what OP means by
"an internal communication system" being the thing Amazon got right.
~~~
blandflakes
This edict was before my time at Amazon, so I can't speak to whether there was
an RPC framework in existence when this was mandated.
By the time I arrived, however, there was a cross-language RPC framework that
integrated with Amazon's monitoring, request tracing, and build infrastructure
(for building and releasing client versions). It was very full-featured and
the de-facto system for creating a service. Most of our communication in my
organization was done using this framework, and systems that violated the
"only communicate over a service boundary" mandate were real problem children.
~~~
jrochkind1
Interesting, people don't talk about this much, although the OP seems to be
aware of it and think it was important.
Does anyone know if there's been much written on how this came to be and what
it looked like? If not, it would be a useful thing to write about!
Cause it does seem like a really important thing, without it, the narrative
seems to be that you make a decree like Bezos', and bing bang magic, you get
what AWS got. Where in fact, succesfully pulling off that RPC framework seems
to be really important, and undoubtedly took a lot of work, good succesful
design, and social organizing to get everyone to use it (perhaps by making it
the easy answer to Bezos' mandate). But none of that stuff just happens, some
have failed where AWS succeeded, the mandate alone isn't enough.
~~~
blandflakes
I think a lot of Amazon's internal tooling is sort of "unpublished" \- I've
not found a great reference for a lot of the really excellent dev support they
had.
The AWS story is particularly interesting because a lot of the internal setup
I was doing at the time was on old fashioned metal. There was an internal
project called Move to AWS (MAWS) that encouraged using newly-developed
integrations with the AWS systems that the public was using.
In other words, AWS lived alongside old-fashioned provisioning practices up
until even the early 2010s.
------
thefounder
The issue if you are developing using such requirements is that the product
will end-up quite expensive. A simple messaging or authentication feature
becomes a fully fledged multi-tier service maybe with super admins,
owners/admins and clients. Dev budget is not an issue for Amazon though...
------
notacoward
A few things I'd add today:
* Every service must provide latency and error-rate metrics.
* Every service must be capable of generating and/or responding to backpressure when things become overloaded.
* Every service must be prepared to support multitenancy.
------
d--b
The thing to point out is Bezos is a real techie, and while any business guy
would have built amazon on top of msft or google cloud, the fact that he knows
about infrastructure made it possible for Amazon to build AWS
------
busterarm
Reading Bezos' mandate email puts a smile across my face, every time.
------
thrower123
Why does the title of this keep getting flopped around? It's shifted three or
four times today. I thought it was supposed to be the title, or the subtitle,
and avoid paraphrasing.
------
iagooar
> 6) Anyone who doesn’t do this will be fired.
I would have so much loved this approach in the last corporate job I had. It
would have changed so many things in such a short time...
------
dmh2000
here's an article about how the idea of AWS came about. the main takeaway is
that it evolved and the article has a lot of 'we' in it, not only 'jeff'
[https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/02/andy-jassys-brief-
history-...](https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/02/andy-jassys-brief-history-of-
the-genesis-of-aws/)
------
brown9-2
It’s such a loss that Yegge doesn’t blog anymore.
~~~
rctay89
...you were saying? :) [https://medium.com/@steve.yegge/google-to-grab-one-
year-late...](https://medium.com/@steve.yegge/google-to-grab-one-year-
later-3e1e4df321f3)
------
emmelaich
> doesn't matter what technology they use. HTTP, Corba, Pubsub, custom
> protocols
So a jdbc interface and published schema would count?
------
totaldude87
>> Anyone who doesn’t do this will be fired
Right, motivating everyone.. check..
------
ga-vu
Do other (Silicon Valley) companies do the same?
------
jordache
is this trying to be stratechry in format?
------
darkstar999
Author should ctrl-f for the many erroneous double spaces. </ocd>
~~~
namdnay
Macbook keyboard maybe?
------
iamleppert
We have robotic baristas here in SF, but no one uses them. Why? People want to
have their food prepared and served by a real human being, in most cases. The
food tastes better when it's served to you by a real person.
~~~
cthalupa
I believe you replied to the wrong story, unless robot baristas serving you
coffee was meant to be a metaphor for using APIs for programmatic
communication vs. SFTPing csv files, or something.
------
arkitaip
If you use an adblocker like uBlock Origin, you can add the following rule:
news.ycombinator.com##.pagetop
Unfortunately it removes ALL of the top navbar but I've found it really useful
to get around HN's damaging and useless gamification metric.
~~~
ianmobbs
What?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Should YouTube Charge a Fee to Upload Video? - peter123
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/should-youtube-charge-a-fee-to-upload-video/
======
DanielStraight
Sure, if they want to lose 99.9999999999999999999999% of their uploaders.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Pretentious tool for working and relaxing (disclaimer: for hipsters only) - tristanac
http://hipstersound.xyz/?cafeteria
======
tristanac
with silly name
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask YC: Capacity planning question - goodgoblin
How many simultaneous mongrels am I going to need to serve 120K users? 120K mongrels?<p>Assume the mongrels are sitting at the front of a rails app - any idea of a good metric for this? I know they're not all going to be hitting the site simultaneously, but I believe each request to rails blocks.<p>So at 4 Mongrels a virtualized server I'd need 250 to serve 1K simulataneous users. Is there a good metric for breaking down how many simul users I should plan for based on the total number of users?
comments, links, ridicule welcome
TIA
======
bfioca
120K users a day? That's a _lot_ for a rails app. In fact, looking around, I'd
be surprised if there were any existing rails applications that serve that
many. 43things.com seems to max out in the 50K users per day range (on
average). The first question I have to ask is do you really need to handle
that kind of traffic? If you don't - don't bother trying to scale to that much
yet. If you're talking hits, that's a different story... You'll definitely
want to know how many concurrent you're getting. For reference, a TechCrunch
post generates between 20-50 concurrent hits on an application that renders in
~1s/page (as of Nov 07). Plan for 2x-3x that for digg/reddit traffic. That
TechCrunch load was served with 4 or 5 mongrels. 6-8 is the most I'd recommend
running on a dual-core box.
I haven't seen a 1000 concurrent user app since I worked at UPS... so if you
have this problem, why are you asking us? You should be hiring someone with
the huge amount of money you have. ;)
~~~
blader
We do 400K+ users an day on our Rails app, 10MM pageviews, and 200 requests a
second.
YellowPages.com, which is probably the largest Rails site (yes larger than
Twitter) does a lot more than that.
I used to buy in to the whole 'scale later' philosophy from 37signals, but
after getting burnt by a fast growing application and being down for half a
month - capacity planning is definitely worth it over being caught with your
pants down right when you're growing.
~~~
rms
Cool, that's pretty good. Is that for your page builder or your facebook app?
~~~
blader
It's just the Facebook app.
------
blader
Here are some numbers from our application, let me know if this helps:
We have 400K daily active users, doing 200 requests a second and around 10MM
page views per day. All requests are dynamic and hit the full Rails stack.
We're probably easily in the top 5 Rails sites on the net based on load.
We run all of this on 5x 4core 8GB application servers and 2x 4core 32GB db
servers in master-master replication. We run 16 mongrels on each app server
for a total of 80. Our average response time per request is around 100-200ms.
We host on Softlayer and pay around $6000 a month.
Also, the number of mongrels you will need is directly dependent on how fast
your requests are, and how you are loading balancing across these mongrels. We
use the nginx proxy with the fair load balancing patch.
[http://brainspl.at/articles/2007/11/09/a-fair-proxy-
balancer...](http://brainspl.at/articles/2007/11/09/a-fair-proxy-balancer-for-
nginx-and-mongrel)
~~~
goodgoblin
Thank you sir - this kind of info is pure gold. Softlayer - do they manage the
servers or is that your datacenter and you manage the machines yourselves? Was
looking at Engine Yard - they start at $17k for a cluster.
~~~
blader
Yeah we looked at EngineYard. They are good if you don't ever want to deal
with deployment at all, but I really can't justify the premium. The 17K price
quoted is probably for their basic cluster of 3 machines - we run on 10 now so
it's probably going to be a lot more than that.
SoftLayer is unmanaged, but they do have staff that can help you with sysadmin
stuff for a fee.
------
fendale
Each request to Rails block a Mongrel while it servers it, but even on my home
server I am getting upwards of 50 requests per second on my app (all logged in
pages, so no caching). That means you could have 50 people all requesting the
page at the same time and each of them will have it returned inside a second
even with a single Mongrel.
You need to be careful that you don't tie up some of your Mongrels doing long
running tasks - if you have actions that cause tasks to run that take on the
order of seconds, consider queuing them up to be serviced by some other
background process (which is what I decided to do).
As someone else mentioned here, try to cache as much as possible - cached full
pages take the load off Rails completely, cached fragments reduce the time to
serve a request inside Rails, so you can get more from each Mongrel. Make sure
and not cache logged in pages though!
Other general advice for a database application - hit the database as little
as possible - in Rails don't do things like:
@user = User.find(params[:id])
@products = @user.products.find(:all)
@profile = @user.profile.find(:all)
That would result in 3 database queries, while this will do it in 1:
@user = User.find(params[:id], :include => [:products, :profile])
etc ...
~~~
goodgoblin
I'm really trying to figure out how much money serving 120K users is going to
cost me in servers and bandwidth. Thanks for the tips - I've farmed the image
uploads out to merbs running in EC2 - there are some other long running (6+
second) tasks that users could perform frequently - I'll start to farm those
out as well.
------
icky
> So at 4 Mongrels a virtualized server I'd need 250 to serve 1K simulataneous
> users.
Depends on how simultaneous they really are. Are we talking 1000 hits per
second? Or are we talking about 1000 unique people viewing some portion of
your site/app at a given time?
If it's the latter, you can get away with a lot less.
Also, if you have shared-anything, it will become a bottleneck long before the
mongrels. Your database especially will have to be replicated (for read-mostly
apps), or sharded (for heavy read-write apps).
If it's a read-mostly app, consider aggressively caching fragments or even
pages. (1K users hitting static pages will just hit Apache, given the right
set of mod_rewrite rules, and you can have a lot more Apache processes (or
threads; is Rails threadsafe these days?) running on a given server than
mongrels (which, when I last used Rails, were very resource-hungry).
Consider also ways to extend the functionality of cached/static pages. You
could have mod_rewrite check to see if the user has a login cookie and only
then hit the non-cached app, OR you could have client-side javascript on the
static cached page check for the same cookie and only then display the login
name or do an XMLHttpRequest to the server (which then may cache a static html
subpage named for that username, which can then be checked by mod_rewrite as
well).
Just don't trust non-signed user cookies for looking up private information,
or for making any database writes. Signed cookies, however, are a great
alternative to centralized sessions (just remember to encrypt anything that
you want the user to store, but not see: signing just protects against
tampering). Jam the user's IP address into the signed cookie text and guard
against replay attacks, as well!
~~~
goodgoblin
Thanks - i'll have to spend some time to grok your suggestions, but for now at
least I appreciate them.
Re: 1k simulataneous requests - concurrent requests - just didn't want rails
to block.
------
dedalus
I dont think your question has enough data to answer properly. We need to know
whats the service time(avg request takes how many seconds) for each request
and how the arrival rate of your requests like (120K per second or minute?)
and whats the limit on your request queue (put them on hold till they get
server). Finally whats the tolerance level of the final response time (can
support 120K users by serialising across 10 servers but that drives up the
response time for end users)?
Anyways probably you can read some books here at
<http://www.cs.gmu.edu/faculty/menasce.html>
or if you are in a hurry a quick glimpse at the tactical paper at
<http://www.cmg.org/measureit/issues/mit04/m_4_7.html>
Hope this gets you started if not answer your question thoroughly..
~~~
goodgoblin
Hi - yes - looking into how to price a potential large scale licensing deal -
but unlike something like MS-Word the cost per instance isn't zero with hosted
software. Trying to come up with a per-user or per 1k user metric for the
server costs. I'll take a look at your links and post back when I get some
data - thx
------
carpal
I don't mean to be an ass, but you are not going to have 1k simultaneous
users. If you did, you would be able to pay someone who had a better
understanding of how webservers work.
One decent machine running 10 mongrels on a reasonably well-designed Rails app
will easily be able to handle 100 requests per second. That is more traffic
than you will ever get, I guarantee you.
~~~
goodgoblin
How many users would 100 requests per second translate to? I know it depends
on the app, but figuring an average render, think, click cycle - is that 1000
logged in users? 10,000?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The problem with using or advocating Linux - michaelbeam
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=159931
======
freehunter
I've had (and discussed) issues like this all the time. Generally, things
work. But every time I try using Linux as a desktop OS, there's some things
that push me back to Windows, because it's just so much more cohesive (and
that's not saying much).
Yes, these problems exist on every platform. But with Windows, there's a
vested interest by the company to make sure everyone can use it and things
don't break. If things to break, there's a vested interest in making sure it's
both easy and most importantly possible for an end-user or even a low level
field support technician to fix it.
I've never had Windows fail to load the window manager. On Linux it's all too
often that an update will make my first input to a newly booted system be
"startx", or sometimes even dpkg --reconfigure xorg. It's not a fundamental
issue with Linux, which make it more irritating. It's possible to make it work
better than Windows, but there's so much fracturing and in-fighting about what
the fix is that it just hasn't happened yet. A million eyes on the code might
in theory make sure bugs go away, but it seems that the better route so far is
a million dollars and one person overseeing development. Look at the huge leap
in desktop Linux that Ubuntu gave us, and also look at how much flak they got
for doing so.
------
BruceIV
These are exactly the reasons why I run Windows on my home machine (Linux at
work though, I do need to get stuff done).
That said, I was out to lunch this weekend with a friend, and she was
frustrated because her new (Windows 8) laptop wouldn't play DVDs - I know it's
because Microsoft doesn't ship the codecs anymore, and that I could fix it in
10 minutes by installing VLC, but she's not tech-literate enough to do that,
so maybe Windows isn't entirely so far ahead.
------
sssbc
So I'm typing this on a name brand Windows Machine, certainly "over the hill"
in both hardware and software.
Its sound worked when it was new, then stopped working. Booting Linux (Suse of
a certain older vintage), and sound just works. I'm sure I could spend more
time futzing about about with it and it would work, but I've given up after
about a day.
Pleas, please, please I am begging the Windows community as a whole and the HP
community in particular; get your act together. Really, this is embarrassing.
------
alexdowad
I use (and enjoy) Mint, but have to agree wholeheartedly with this post. In
some ways, it's _close_ to something which I could recommend to non-technical
friends and family. But not yet. I hope that future releases will focus more
on things like working seamlessly with the hardware, and less on enhancements
to the window manager.
------
ralphc
Apple and Microsoft (software vendors) have large teams to make sure things
are compatible with certain hardware. Apple, HP, Sony, etc (hardware vendors)
have teams to make sure things are compatible with OSX and Windows. You can't
expect to slap a random distro on a random computer and expect 100% of
everything to work without some tweaking. If you want to use a Linux and have
everything work without tweaks, buy from a manufacturer that does for Linux
what a HP would do for Windows, make sure it all works before it goes out the
door. Try System 76 or one of the others.
~~~
binxbolling
> You can't expect to slap a random distro on a random computer and expect
> 100% of everything to work without some tweaking.
Right, and I think most people agree with this. But we can't assent to that
and then turn around and claim "Linux is just as user-friendly as Windows/OS
X" or "Anybody can use Linux; it just works." It does nobody any good to
pretend that Mint (or Ubuntu, or whatever) is yet at the level of Win 7 or OS
X in terms of out-of-the-box usability. People who are unequivocally
recommending Linux to the average layperson are doing everybody a disservice.
------
PeterWhittaker
I used Ubuntu (then briefly Mint and Debian) for years.
Being tired of issues like this is why I moved to OSX.
~~~
tmikaeld
Exactly the same situation here
Too bad OS X doesn't have VM GPU passthrough - is just so damn tasty...
------
RankingMember
I dual-booted Ubuntu for a time, but there was always some niggling issue that
prevented me from ever fully switching over. I come back and give it another
shot every few years and it's always the same situation.
------
lauradhamilton
I am also a Mint user, and I have run into this (and similar) bugs.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Does higher pay offer on exiting a job reveal employee's real value? - valand
A scenario: an employee, Orion, is announcing to exit a job in a company, RapidData, due to monetary reason.<p>On announcing the exit, Orion is being offered 180% of current pay if he decides to stay in RapidData. Orion's responsibility will not change because of the raise.<p>Does this indicate that:<p>1.) Orion's value has been 180% of current pay the whole time<p>OR<p>2.) Orion's value rose because of scarcity based on supply-demand law?
======
davismwfl
To answer your question, no it doesn't.
Generally it is never that simple and there are a variety of factors that go
into this.
Let's assume the company gives Orion that offer, it could be that Orion's true
market rate is 200% (or more) or it could be that Orion's market rate is
really 160% but they value the employee and can't afford to lose them so they
are trying to make it attractive.
Almost always Orion's accepting of the counter offer from the existing
employer is a mistake. Many employers that make the counter offer will be less
trusting of the employee in the long term and will be looking for a way to
reduce the employee's value. There are exceptions on both sides of course, but
rarely is accepting a counter offer from an existing employer a good idea. I
had an employer offer me 1.5x one time to stay, I left for a job paying me
only 1.3x. More money doesn't change the situation generally why you are
leaving, and if an employer lets you get that far behind market they aren't
valuing you properly and are just waiting for you to call them out.
What I usually suggest to people is they need to negotiate every year for more
money as a matter of process. This reduces the need to get a competing offer
to just get a raise. Then the only reason you leave generally is because you
find at the first year the company is cheap or over time you just don't want
to work there anymore because of whatever other issues. Employers see this
method much differently than an employee that job shops and tries to bend them
over a barrel with an ultimatum.
~~~
sethammons
As you said, there are exceptions. I accepted my current employer's counter
offer which was less than the new job. I'm still here over three years later
and have been promoted and am dramatically over what the original offer from
the other employer was. It worked out doubly well for me as the other employer
later folded and my equity at my current employer has been life changing.
You have to evaluate the reasons for why you would leave or stay beyond just a
paycheck.
------
mcv
It primarily reflects how hard it is and how much time it costs to replace the
employee. The employer needs the employee to stay on until they've hired a
replacement, and can afford to pay extra for a limited time.
If you accept this offer, prepare to get fired as soon as they've found your
replacement. If you think this might be your actual value to the company, ask
them to make that raise retroactive from a year ago.
~~~
valand
This is if Orion's position is replacable. Holding a project "hostage" because
the project has only enough manpower.
What if the company intends to keep Orion because the company knows that
Orion, even though not holding any "hostage" situation, is accelerating the
growth of the company?
~~~
mcv
Then they would have given that raise earlier and wouldn't have waited until
Orion was already ready to leave. The company is also not going to rely long
term on someone who already has expressed a desire to leave. They will still
look for a replacement.
------
bjourne
Marxists make a distinction between "value" and "worth." The words are
synonymous in English but etymologically different. Value is of French (or
Latin) origin and is related to valew and valour. Worth comes from the
Germanic words wert and werd. You can hear when you pronounce "value" and
"worth" how different they sound.
To Marxists, "value" is extrinsic and subjective. "Worth" is intrinsic and
objective.
Did Orion's worth increase by the threat of quitting? Clearly not. He or she
didn't suddenly become a better developer, thus his or her work output didn't
suddenly become worth much more. Did Orion's value increase by the threat of
quitting? Clearly so. The valuation of his or her work output suddenly
increased by 80%!
Marxists then make the point that our society focus way to much on the "value"
of things, which often is nonsensical, when we instead should focus on what
things are "worth."
~~~
valand
> The words are synonymous in English but etymologically different. Value is
> of French (or Latin) origin and is related to valew and valour. Worth comes
> from the Germanic words wert and werd. You can hear when you pronounce
> "value" and "worth" how different they sound.
I learned a new thing today :D
------
muzani
It's really hard to gauge value in the software industry. A company may make
$0 on some code today, $5000 on the same code next year, and $50 mil 10 years
after that. Assuming Orion is writing this code, is he worth $0, $2500/year,
or $5 mil/year?
It's part of a team effort - testers, marketing, management, investors, HR,
finance, even the janitor who keeps Orion from taking a day off to vacuum the
office and clean the toilets.
I think freelancing comes as close to true value as possible. You abstract out
a portion of work to someone, who handles it for a certain value. That someone
also mops their own floors, does their own taxes, registers a company, deals
with regulations, deals with their own insurance, manages their own
motivation, and so on. They often outsource this too - maids, co-working
spaces, plumbers, personal health insurance, etc.
Freelancers request about 1-10 times the average rate. This varies by
location, e.g. companies with good public healthcare and lower taxes might
have a lower multiplier.
But if you live in a location where full time freelancers normally request 4x
wages, it's likely Orions max value is closer to 4x his total compensation.
~~~
valand
> It's part of a team effort - testers, marketing, management, investors, HR,
> finance, even the janitor who keeps Orion from taking a day off to vacuum
> the office and clean the toilets.
Doesn't it portray more of the company's value rather than Orion's value?
~~~
muzani
Yes, but Orion's present value is no higher than the company, or specifically
his team. If the company makes $5000/year and has no hope of making more than
$5000/year, then Orion's value is no higher than $5000/year. If a recession
hits, and Orion makes do as a waiter, Orion's value drops even with the same
skills.
A nail costs a few cents but the value is dependent on the product it is used
in. If the price of a nail goes up to $10, it's likely people will stop using
it for decorations, and only for expensive furniture and buildings. The value
of the nail is still higher than $10 as long as it is used that way.
But the nail keeps to a low price because it can be used in so many low value
things. Most nails are worth only a few cents. And most programmers are only
worth maybe $10k a year or so.
------
lunias
Value is decided by the market. If Orion is leaving due to monetary reasons
then it would seem that Orion has already been made aware of an opportunity
which places a higher value on their work.
In this example, there are two markets to consider; RapidData and everyone
else.
We know that Orion is worth more to everyone else, but that's no guarantee
that they're worth 180% of their current pay. RapidData may be willing to pay
out more in the short-term because of the opportunity cost associated with
replacing Orion and keeping the business running in the interim.
So, I'd say it's mostly #2.
In practice though, if you wanted to leave before the raise; then you'll
probably still want to leave after. The only difference being, that now your
company is actively making sure they're not caught in this situation again.
You will be judged more harshly and in the event that 180% does exceed your
"everyone else" market value, you will eventually be let go or made to quit.
------
codingslave
There are many possible reasons:
1.) Orions value rose because he is about to walk out the door with all sorts
of important information in his head. Often times, a counter offer is made to
lessen the risk of information loss, with longer term plans to move Orion out
of the company, or lessen his impact.
2.) His boss looks really bad if he quits, especially if he is a high
performing employee. So the boss has every incentive to keep him on.
3.) Short term high profile project has a huge business cost if not completed,
Orion is not worth that much, except for in the next few months
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Basic Income as Common Dividends: Piloting a Transformative Policy - T-A
https://www.thersa.org/events/2019/05/basic-income-as-common-dividends
======
m33k44
I use to be a proponent of UBI, but in recent months have changed my mind
after moving to a shared accommodation(mostly students). In this house there
are 4 students and 2 non-students. These two guys don't work, are living on
government dole outs and the whole day and night play video games, and not
only are they themselves not working, but they have started setting a wrong
example for the students. And it is not that jobs are not available, it is
just that because the government is paying unemployment benefits people don't
care even if jobs are available. There should be no free money as I have
started seeing negative side of this policy in recent months.
I think governments should provide free education and healthcare to everyone
and peg the prices of housing to some standard price index. That's it. No
blanket free money.
~~~
max76
> There should be no free money
The video states that 60% of the wealth in the U.K. is inherited, which is
essentially free money for the receiver. Why is it okay for rich people to
receive free money but not everyday people?
~~~
autokad
> "The video states that 60% of the wealth in the U.K. is inherited"
I hate statements like this because they are completely misleading. other
similar ones like "top 1 % controls ~50 % of wealth" etc.
This goes by networth. Imagine this, there are about 20 million college
students, nearly all of then have a negative net worth. By that logic, if you
hand a homeless person a single $ bill, they 'control' the wealth of at least
20 million Americans. you can add in tons of americans who have a positive net
worth to make up for all that negative net worth. Its an absurd way of
thinking. its especially problematic since most net worth is paper net worth
(stocks that not even the owners can really touch).
Surely someone who just graduated college and has 100k negative net worth is
far better off than a starving person in a desert, distended belly and all.
~~~
max76
Are you really saying a statistic about wealth inequality shows exaggerated
inequality because we have lots of people heavily in debt?
~~~
autokad
thats only one issue, there are many others. there are also a ton of people
who just dont save/invest any of their money, even those making 100k a year.
furthermore, we are in a bit of bull market for stocks, which networth overly
focuses on.
also networth is just a terrible metric. it ignores income streams, it ignores
things that produce income like degrees, etc. it over inflates paper wealth as
mentioned before.
~~~
max76
I understand that a person's networth isn't the same as their value. It's
still a reasonable approximation of someone's current financial position.
------
rossenberg79
Have any proponents of Basic Income policies ever proposed instead of handing
out money, we hand out tangible assets instead? A basic house, clothing, food,
access to education and healthcare (and maybe some transportation in less
walkable areas) seems like it would cover everything a person needs to live
without any other source of income, and through economies of scale these
things could all become cheaper to provide as opposed to having to depend on
sources of money to fund dividends.
~~~
Jedi72
I think there should be much more focus on this kind of plan. People dont need
income, they need housing etc. My concern is that if you swap out welfare and
services for basic income inflation will eat away at it and sooner or later BI
wont mean very much and we now have no services either.
~~~
rossenberg79
Indeed, as housing becomes prohibitively expensive everywhere that people want
to live in the US, I doubt someone living off basic income will even be able
to afford any kind of home.
If however, we had government built apartment buildings that could be
partitioned out and made available for free only to those who need it, that
would actually help solve _real_ problems, and wouldn’t even disrupt those who
depend on their property values rising. Imagine such buildings right here in
San Francisco.
~~~
qqqwerty
Those exist in SF, and some of them are colloquially known as the projects[1].
The nice thing about UBI, is it avoids the issue of the 'welfare trap'. UBI
isn't meant to directly impact the housing situation in SF, it's meant to help
in places like Detroit, where the collapse of the auto-industry could have
been mitigated somewhat had there been a UBI to help support the affected
individuals and keep money flowing into the local economy. And this would also
have a second order effect of relieving pressure on the high growth economies
like NY/SF/LA, as folks would not need to immediately migrate away from
low/no-growth areas in search of work.
[1] [https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Life-at-the-bottom-S-
F-s...](https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Life-at-the-bottom-S-F-s-
Sunnydale-project-3228433.php)
------
s_erik
There is also "Negative Income Tax" policy that tries to solve the same
problem that Universal Basic Income is trying to solve.
------
_448
For UBI to work smoothly, it will help if it goes hand-in-hand with another
economics policy called the Modern Monetary Theory[0] (MMT).
[0] [https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/24/economy/modern-
moneta...](https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/24/economy/modern-monetary-
theory-explained)
------
G8WyaX
Pdf: [https://www.progressiveeconomyforum.com/wp-
content/uploads/2...](https://www.progressiveeconomyforum.com/wp-
content/uploads/2019/05/PEF_Piloting_Basic_Income_Guy_Standing.pdf)
------
RickJWagner
Wouldn't it be best to launch UBI in a nation with stronger socialist mores
first? It seems like it'd be a smaller jump, and probably more likely to
succeed.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Popular shots from Dribbble right into your new tab - _fertapric
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dribbble-new-tab/hmhjbefkpednjogghoibpejdmemkinbn#hn
======
andyfleming
I've used Benchwarmer in the past. Does the same thing, but with a few extra
features. [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/benchwarmer-new-
ta...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/benchwarmer-new-tab-
exten/lhdjhhpjicomphhjpehdhjenbaamdpnn)
------
wingerlang
It would be nice to have a more subtle version that just replaced the bottom
row of the normal most visited sites.
~~~
_fertapric
Good idea! But 3-6 shots were not enough for me. Thanks for the feedback!
~~~
wingerlang
I've tried a lot of "new tab" replacements but I always go back to the default
one. Some minor enhancement would be fitting, for me at least, while not
removing the functionality that I use.
------
mrdrozdov
Why does this extension need to read your browser history?
~~~
_fertapric
It does not. Dribbble New Tab just ask for "tabs" permissions.
Here is the Chrome's manifest.json:
[https://gist.github.com/fertapric/3089cc53612bbf9ed75f](https://gist.github.com/fertapric/3089cc53612bbf9ed75f)
If you have any screenshot, it would be helpful to contact to the Google
Chrome Web Store Team and solve this issue.
~~~
nacs
Just got the same message on Chrome 39:
[http://i.imgur.com/GrhIGCl.png](http://i.imgur.com/GrhIGCl.png)
~~~
_fertapric
mmm, weird, I think is a side effect of "permissions": ["tabs"]
[https://developer.chrome.com/extensions/permissions](https://developer.chrome.com/extensions/permissions)
~~~
beepboop12
yeah, you don't actually need to have 'tabs' as a permission - most of the tab
functionality you need is there by default
~~~
_fertapric
I'll upload a new version without the "tabs" permission. Thanks for the tip!
~~~
_fertapric
Version 1.0.3 uploaded, removed "tabs" permission :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Venezuela and Russia Teamed Up to Push Pro-Catalan Fake News - robin_reala
https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-is-venezuela-waging-cyber-war-in-europe
======
pulisse
Money quote: _analysis of more than 5 million messages about Catalonia posted
on social networks between Sept. 29 and Oct. 5 shows that only 3 percent come
from real profiles outside the Russian and Venezuelan cybernetworks._
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
I've managed to get a job interview in Oslo - norway_newb
and would be grateful to know if there is anything worth doing/seeing/meeting in Oslo before going home?
======
lagadu
If the weather is clear (unlikely, I know) going up Holmenkollen is gorgeous.
Visiting Vigeland park is a must too.
Good luck with the interview and if you plan on buying alcohol, do it at the
duty free.
~~~
Gustomaximus
Both these are great suggestions to see the outdoors of Oslo. And if you want
to see some local history;
Akershus Fortress - the resistance museum is particularly interesting and you
can do a waterfront walk in the nearby area too.
Folk and Viking museums are really good if you have time to travel to the Oslo
suburbs.
Munch Museum is good if you enjoy art. I always thought of his scream type
picture before going there but he does some really light colorful stuff too.
They have a national gallery but it doesn't compare to what you'll see in
London/NY/Paris so would recommend the 'local specialty'.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Python 2.6 and 3.0 release schedule - inklesspen
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2008-March/077723.html
======
inklesspen
They plan for 2.6 and 3.0 to be released in September. Great news!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why the Future of Tesla May Depend on Knowing What Happened to Billy Durant - TheAuditor
https://steveblank.com/2018/04/23/why-the-future-of-tesla-may-depend-on-knowing-what-happened-to-billy-durant/
======
amarant
it's often said that if a headline is posited as a question, the answer to
that question is "no".
if that question begins with "how" or "why" however, the answer is better
phrased as "it doesn't".
/rant
not very inspired analysis of Tesla's challenges, with a comparison to a just
barely similar historical case.
~~~
noxToken
This first portion is known as Betteridge's law of headlines[0]. I don't have
a source for the corollary.
[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%)
------
JKCalhoun
> One of the common traits of a visionary founder is that once you have proven
> the naysayers wrong, you convince yourself that all your pronouncements have
> the same prescience.
That line rings true.
------
thisisit
This was discussed earlier on HN:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16891651](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16891651)
------
talltimtom
A good read, but I really wish the author would stop the constant equation of
visionary and founder and remove the couple of factually wrong insinuations
that Musk was the founder of Tesla. Elon Musk did not found the company he did
definitely help it survive its infancy and grew it to what it is today (which
either market leading or nearly bancrupt depending of who you ask), but he
didn’t found it.
------
stephengillie
This line of thought might be a "natural inception[0]" from Tesla using the
very same auto plant[1] where Toyota taught GM some of their trade secrets.
After hearing this and knowing both are American automakers, many humans would
continue the comparison, and some would find similar events somewhere in GM's
long history. Because of the length of GM's history, it's probable that you'll
find a similar event - somewhat reminiscent of "Bible codes" showing encoded
prophecy, except long works such as Moby Dick accidentally have the same
encodings. [2]
Though it would be "symmetrical" if Toyota formed a similar partnership with
Tesla for a similar purpose.
[0]
[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/)
(Inception (2010))
[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NUMMI](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NUMMI)
[2]
[http://www.awitness.org/essays/bibcode.html](http://www.awitness.org/essays/bibcode.html)
------
josefresco
TL;DR: "Yet, as Durant’s story typifies, one of the challenges for visionary
founders is that they often have a hard time staying focused on the present
when the company needs to transition into relentless execution and scale."
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Quantifying the evolution of individual scientific impact - yarapavan
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/354/6312/aaf5239
======
achow
The linked article seems to be misleading on the true purpose of the research.
The source:
[http://science.sciencemag.org/content/354/6312/aaf5239](http://science.sciencemag.org/content/354/6312/aaf5239)
From the source:
The random-impact rule allows us to develop a quantitative model, which
systematically untangles the role of productivity and luck in each scientific
career.
The model predicts that truly high-impact discoveries require a combination of
high Q and luck (p) and that increased productivity alone cannot substantially
enhance the chance of a very high impact work.
(Paraphrased) Where Q = Capability of scientist and potential impact of the
chosen problem.
~~~
sctb
Thanks, we had updated the link from
[https://keithsawyer.wordpress.com/2016/11/22/are-you-too-
old...](https://keithsawyer.wordpress.com/2016/11/22/are-you-too-old-to-be-
brilliant/) a little while ago.
------
cvarjas
PDF available from one of the authors:
[http://www.dashunwang.com/pdf/Sinatra2016-Science.pdf](http://www.dashunwang.com/pdf/Sinatra2016-Science.pdf)
------
MichailP
I don't like when the idea is taken to extreme and parents force their kids to
get as far as possible as young as possible. For example young pop stars
competitions and similar. After all brilliant people don't always get the
credit they deserve during their lifetime, e.g Tesla (died alone in hotel room
talking to pigeons), Mozart (buried in unmarked grave), Lavoisier (executed in
French revolution), list goes on and on
------
codeonfire
Still barely eligible for a Fields medal, although I will have to work fast.
Not eligible for moronic 20 under 20.
~~~
biofox
20 under 20 should be countered by someone funding 50 over 50.
Disrupt the SV age bias by taking 50 experienced professionals, and giving
them the freedom and resources to do whatever they like.
------
grabcocque
I was born too old to be brilliant.
------
croon
TLDR; No.
~~~
emsy
Betteridge's law of headlines
~~~
ashryan
For those who have never heard of it:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headli...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines)
It's meant to be humorous, but it's surprisingly accurate for many question
headlines.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What tech problems would you glady pay $25 a month for a SAAS solution? - seanpackham
======
seanpackham
I asked this question wanting to know what day to day issues people struggle
with, what tasks they repeat a dozen times a day, what 20 process step can be
reduced to 3 or even better completely automated.
Thank you for the answers so far!
------
ig1
From validation. It's a pain to write validation code and to do it cleanly,
give me an ajax service that I can hand the validation off to. I just want to
be able to say field x is a number, field y is an address, etc.
~~~
seanpackham
Hmm I think trying to convert such a task into a service will always introduce
some language to describe your field and it's constraints and then you might
as well write it yourself.
Also with such a critical part of your system, getting information from your
user, if the service is slow or down you will run into troubles.
What specific programming languages and/or frameworks do you require a
solution for? Please let me know if I missed the point completely. Thanks for
your answer!
~~~
ig1
Well I was imagining some kind of ajax thing that validated fields on the fly
as the user filled them in.
Validation is non-trivial for many fields. For example almost no-one
implements email validation correctly as per the RFC because it's hard to get
right, and most people just use a hacky regex that ends up accepting invalid
emails and rejecting valid ones.
Or with credit card validation, many places don't validate credit card numbers
(i.e doing the validation checksum, checking if the card is a mastercard that
it's got the mastercard prefix) before sending them to the card processor
site. If the card processing services rejects the card and the user has to re-
enter the card details, chance are they won't bother and you've lost yourself
a sale. If you validated for obvious mistakes on-the-fly (i.e user sees error
immediately) you wouldn't lose as many of those customers.
You could also do things like supplementing the user supplied data, say the
user supplies an address you could automatically geocode it and put it in a
hidden field for the website.
~~~
codegeek
So you mean client side validation correct? I mean to validate form submission
that needs server side information, you would still need to build something on
your own.
~~~
ig1
Yes. Normally a user filling in a form is the last step before conversion
(signup, purchase, etc) so any users you lose at that step are horrendously
expensive, good client side validation can make a significant difference.
Validation for the purpose of having clean data in your database is obviously
important too, but less so. But obviously if you had a service for providing
the first it wouldn't be hard to offer it as a server side services as well.
------
RileyJames
I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're after, but it is tech business
related.
Currently frustrated that highrise does not timestamp tags, or allow tags to
be sorted by a timestamp.
If you could add that feature as a plugin or via their api I would gladly pay
$25 per month.
Haven't looked extensively for a solution, but it's certainly a pain point at
the moment.
------
AznHisoka
I'd want a SaaS that when given a URL of an article or piece of content I just
wrote... gives me a bunch of related Twitter followers, potential LinkedIn
Groups, bloggers, etc where I can pitch my content to. Content marketing tool,
so to speak. Hard problem, but hey, that's why I'd pay a lot for it.
------
bhousel
$25/month is kind of an ambitious price point for small teams or individuals.
That's like implying that your service would be more valuable than Basecamp or
Github.
~~~
seanpackham
Surely it depends on the problem being solved though? If I was making a new
project management or source code hosting service I would have to think twice
about charging the same or more than my competitors alternatively I need to
compete on something other than price. Also if a you need a solution to
problem X how can the price point be compared to an established company
solving problem Y?
I'm curious, are you a developer?
~~~
bhousel
> _if a you need a solution to problem X how can the price point be compared
> to an established company solving problem Y?_
If problem X and problem Y both cost $25/month to solve, they should be
roughly equal pain-wise. By starting at price point of $25/month, and working
your way backwards to find problems, you should expect to be tackling Github-
or Basecamp-sized problems.
> _I'm curious, are you a developer?_
Yes, I'm a developer/consultant.
~~~
ohashi
I think that's non-sense. Just because X and Y cost the same to solve doesn't
mean they are equal pain-wise. It doesn't take into account any of relevant
factors like market size. I've seen a lot of services that are trivial in
comparison charge a lot more because it's a much smaller market and/or the
value of a very specific tool is worth far more for people in that niche.
~~~
bhousel
If X and Y cost the same but do not solve the same amount of pain, one of them
is underpriced.
~~~
ohashi
X and Y can cost the same amount and solve different amounts of pain and both
be priced accurately.
How?
Amount of Pain X Solves < Amount of Pain Y Solves
X solves a problem for a small market where the consumers are still find it
worth $25 to solve the problem and have less options.
Y solves a massive problem that a lot of people have (big market). Prices have
been driven to $25 by many competitors.
Different amounts of pain, different amounts of complexity, same price. Y's
price has been driven down to 25 by competitive factors. X's price is higher
because a lack of competitors. All this requires is that one is under-priced
relative to value delivered but not to the market's competitive forces.
Therefore neither is under priced given the reality of both sides of the
market.
------
sharemywin
social network api where user can login via different networks and import
contacts/friends/following. Must be able to have different types of users. and
add extra fields like hobbies etc. on sign up form. Must have a javascript
widgets I can drop on a screen and cusomtze look and feel or api I can call
with backend. Tracking of user. User can share/post message to friends
followers etc. mobile sdk also.
------
TimJRobinson
Good automatic accounting that can handle multiple accounts and multiple
currencies. In fact I would pay $100 a month for this.
~~~
seanpackham
By automatic do you mean it should hook into your accounts and automatically
categorize various items as expenses and provide an income statement and
balance sheet every month?
~~~
TimJRobinson
Yep, as automatic as possible. It could try and auto categorize items and
allow the user to fine tune the categorization. But basically doing what an
accountant normally does automatically.
------
pdenya
Document to Document conversion API. eg: docx => pdf
should be secure, auto detect formats, etc.
~~~
bdunbar
There are a lot of guys out there that do this - are they lacking in some way
that could be improved?
------
stewie2
full featured photoshop alternative. full featured 3d max alternative.
------
alpine
Smart monitoring tool that would automatically check:
\- Front end web site availability
\- APIs available
\- Back end processes are running
\- Database up
\- Disk space available
\- Error logs for important issues
The database checks would include referencal integrity and sanity checks on
volumes to warn of potential issues eg a failed module or abuse by a user.
Daily and weekly reports by Email, RSS, Twitter, web tool. SMS for emergencies
requiring immediate action.
Option to have support from a Sys Admin/DBA automatically trigger to fix minor
issues.
~~~
tgriesser
I recently came across <http://amon.cx/> which does a few of the things you
mentioned, and it's a one time purchase (with a free basic version) rather
than a SaaS. Might be worth taking a look at.
~~~
dholowiski
Wow thanks, I need that. Can't believe it's only $25.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Exoplanet discovery count by year - cryptoz
http://exoplanet.eu/diagrams/?t=h&f=&x=discovered&xmin=&xmax=&y=raw&ymin=&ymax=
======
Jun8
When I saw this on HN, I rewatched the _Cosmos_ episode ("The Backbone of the
Night", aired on Nov 1980) where Carl Sagan is lecturing sixth graders in a
Brooklyn school (the one he attended as a kid) on techniques to search for
exoplanets and then says (from <http://www.american-
buddha.com/backbone.night.htm>):
Well, both of these methods are being used, and by the time that you people
are as old as I am, we should know for all the nearest stars whether they have
planets going around them or not. We might know dozens or even hundreds of
other planetary systems and see if they are like our own, or very different,
or no other planets going around other stars at all. That will happen in your
lifetime, and it will be the first time in the history of the world that
anybody found out really if there are planets around other stars.
His stress on "even hundreds" shows that even he thought this figure was
unlikely. Sagan was 47 at that time, so assuming the kids were about 12, he
was hypothesizing into 35 years to the future, to 2015. He would have been
pleasantly surprised at the progress so far, I think.
I wonder if any one of those kids have looked at this page and thought of that
day.
~~~
InclinedPlane
The amazing thing is that he was more optimistic than most astronomers at the
time with regards to extrasolar planets. It's a funny thing, prior to the
mid-1990s there had only been extremely incomplete searches for exoplanets,
and they all came up negative. But if you looked at the search space of those
studies you see right away that they were really quite pitiful. I suppose this
is one of those "effort trumps reason" situations, as a lot of effort were put
into searches though they had almost no hope of finding planets. And yet those
efforts led to a bias against the idea that planet formation could be common,
and a bias against the scientific value of looking for planets.
At the onset of the great exoplanet discovery breakthrough in the mid '90s
only a few very meagerly funded teams working were actually searching. Once
they started to find planets then the astronomical community started paying
attention, and funding as well as access to the best observatories in the
world started pouring in.
Also, an interesting point of fact is that Sagan was actually hugely
excessively optimistic. The two techniques for exoplanet discovery he
describes are direct observation through occultation or deep nulling of
stellar light and astrometry. As it turns out, these techniques are very, very
difficult to use and we have not actually built any special-purpose spacecraft
that use either method. To date only one planet has been detected through
astrometry, for example. But there are methods which work rather well (doppler
radial velocity and transit detection) though they were not familiar to Sagan.
------
pjungwir
From what I understand, most known exoplanets are gas giants, and almost all
orbit their sun at about the distance of Mercury, because those are easier to
detect. That leaves a lot of harder-to-see exoplanets we can only guess at.
There are about 20 stars within a dozen light years, so I wish we could send
probes to them and take a closer look. It would be a gift to our
grandchildren. The risk is that in the time they would take to get there, our
detection capabilities may have improved so much they'd wind up being useless,
but I sort of doubt it. Being 7-12 light years closer has got to make a
difference.
EDIT: Here is an amazing video showing all known exoplanets orbiting one star,
so you can see their relative sizes, distances, etc.:
<http://vimeo.com/47408739>
~~~
typpo
Here is a similar visualization in webgl, superimposed on our solar system for
reference: <http://www.asterank.com/exoplanets>
Nearly every single exoplanet discovered is within the orbit of Mercury.
------
cryptoz
These are confirmed exoplanets, totalling 872 so far. Kepler and other
missions have found probably tens of thousands more planets that are in
unconfirmed status and will take years to confirm. If I may speculate, and
take SpaceX and Planetary Resources to be successful 10 years out, we might be
able to build absolutely astonishingly large telescopes to resolve continent-
scale features on exoplanets - and have discovered and mapped millions of them
in the Milky Way.
~~~
joshuahedlund
By "confirmed" do you mean we've directly observed the planets as opposed to
calculating that they exist due to changes in the light from their stars?
Regardless I'm very excited about increasing our understanding of these
planets.. Sounds like NASA is planning to launch a telescope specifically for
discovering more about planets as well[1]
[1][http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2013/apr/HQ_13-088_Astro_Exp...](http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2013/apr/HQ_13-088_Astro_Explorer_Mission_.html)
~~~
svachalek
I believe confirmation is usually just a process of double-checking data and
waiting to see a regular cycle of wobbles or occultations. Directly observing
a planet with current telescopes is difficult but it has been done:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Exoplanets_detected_by...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Exoplanets_detected_by_direct_imaging)
------
nealabq
Nice illustration. But the x-axis scaling seems a bit wrong to me. Like
there's only 8 or 9 years in each decade.
------
arscan
Not to be that guy, but the fact that it plots 2013 and 2014 really messes up
the impact of this chart. When I first saw it, I was thinking "whoa, we must
have severely cut funding for such a huge dropoff!"
~~~
cryptoz
It just takes an extra bit of thought, that's all; look at the 2013 value and
then remember it's only _April_. Then think about what 2014 might look like.
Edit: Here's the graph just up to 2012:
[http://exoplanet.eu/diagrams/?t=h&f=&x=discovered...](http://exoplanet.eu/diagrams/?t=h&f=&x=discovered&xmin=1985&xmax=2012&y=raw&ymin=&ymax=)
~~~
Wintamute
2012 shows a drop down to about 150 from 200 in 2011. So there is a drop off.
I think? Or perhaps the graph is just horrible, it's very hard to tell.
------
pjungwir
Does anyone know if exoplanets can find a stable orbit around binary stars? I
read recently that 50-80% of stars are multi-star systems. It seems like it'd
be hard for planets even to form with such a varying magnetic field.
~~~
Martimus
Yes, actually, and some have recently been found.
[http://phys.org/news/2013-03-capture-picture-tatooine-
planet...](http://phys.org/news/2013-03-capture-picture-tatooine-planet-
orbiting.html)
------
3327
e^x
~~~
nealabq
Just eyeballing, but I don't think there's enough data to call that
exponential growth. And the log plot doesn't look like it's fitting a straight
line -- it's curving down a bit at the end.
------
maeon3
By the time we achieve technology where it is feasible for our species to
utilize these exoplanets we will have sufficient technology for humanity to
live normal lives without planets altogether.
The future of our species is huddling around the warmth of the campfire (sun)
and using raw materials from the asteroid belt to create structures orbiting
the sun, until we create a sphere around the sun and all space is exhausted...
then.. maybe after another few hundreds after that point, will these planets
become useful. But not for reasons we would think. Perhaps for research
purposes to see if humans then have the capability to tune back in to
evolution after a thousand years of being pampered and letting the DNA
deteriorate by eliminating survival of the fittest.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Copy & Undercut. Should I do this? - dadads
Call me pessimistic.<p>Every viable web startup idea that I can think of has already been done by other startups who have been there many years before. Many of these startups' products look very polished and usable, that I can't begin to think of how to make a substantially better product that would encourage people to jump ship onto my product.<p>For example, one of my ideas is a repository hosting service. But why the hell would anyone use my service when there's already GitHub/Assembla/BitBucket?<p>I'm thinking of just copying other startups but charge less as a possible strategy.
Is this a good idea?
======
DanielBMarkham
Sounds like you are looking at startups as if your job is to come up with some
new idea.
Don't do this.
Your job is to provide something people want that you can scale. 99.99% of the
time somebody will be able to point at what you are doing and say "That's
already been done!"
People who say this have no idea what they are talking about.
A business is about a hell of a lot more than some unique, creative idea. In
fact, I think it's almost a reliable metric to reverse this thinking: what's
been done to death that other hackers wouldn't like? To me if you want some
kind of system for ideas, that's where I'd go.
But the big-picture ideas are almost always worthless because the devil is in
the details. The "why the hell would anyone use my service" is spot on. The
answer will never be something like "I have a unique idea" -- it'll be a lot
more complicated than that.
I consume a lot of things, and I never make consumption or purchase choices
based on who actually came up with the business concept or how many other
folks are doing it.
~~~
timruffles
I think that's a fantastic way of thinking about it. Businesses don't win
custom by doing totally unique things, but by doing common things in a way
that is local/prettier/cheaper/easier/in a language you speak/on a device you
own.
I think you've changed the way I'll look for "the idea". Not something new,
but a problem I can solve, that people have and that scales, that other people
like me don't want to touch.
One of the best comments I've read on HN, especially for stressing the
complexity of why a product works. Thanks Daniel.
------
patio11
Pretend you have a magic clone wand. Wave your wand at any target. What do you
have?
1). No customers, visitors, or social proof.
2). No marketing strategy.
Sure, you can announce to an uncaring world that your clone is cheaper. So
what? People don't buy Github because it is the cheapest option. They buy it
because it is Github.
To the limited extent that cheap is itself compelling, cheap compels terrible
customers to use you... Until someone undercuts you, at any rate. Pray that
that day is soon, because the pathological customers attracted by Lowest Price
Here are like dementors with keyboards. One glance at a support mail and your
soul will get sucked out of your very eyes.
There are gigantic swathes of the human experience where startups are not as
thick on the ground as "Ooh I should solve the problems of git using
programmers." Go over to the BLS. Look at occupational listing. Sort by
gender. If you see Engineer at top, invert sort. Pick anything now visible on
your screen. Solve their problems. You'll have people laughing _for years_
that there is any money in what you are doing.
P.S. Github's weakness on pricing, to the extent it exists, is that there
exist customers for whom it is too cheap to take seriously.
P.P.S. Feature parity is unnecessary to sell many types of software and is
sometimes _actively harmful_.
~~~
DanielBMarkham
This is going to sound like grumpy old guy, but I really don't mean it that
way.
One of the mistakes I made early on when participating on HN was giving a shit
about what folks here thought about my startup ideas. Funny thing -- I didn't
even realize it. I would just suggest something, somebody would trash it, and
I would move on without working on the idea some more. Unknown to me, I was
letting popular hacker opinion be some kind of gatekeeper to what I wanted to
spend my time on.
To your point, don't do this. If other engineers like the idea -- building
some new toolset or creating the 4000th version of an online scrum tool -- run
away from it. Run far, far away.
I had a cousin who was always trying get-rich-quick ideas. One year it was
zero-down real-estate. Then it was investing. Then it was MLM. Then it was
something else. He read some books, get jazzed up, and work as hard as he
could. But, of course, none of it ever worked out.
One day I was speaking to him on the phone and he was very excited. Yet again.
I kind of sighed inwardly, but then he described to me how he was going to
make a renewable power product -- how the cost per material had a significant
differential, how he had contacts in the import business, how the fabrication
could be done at a small improvement -- all nickel and dime, small percentage,
boring stuff. You know, distribution channels, marketing, production models,
etc.
It was then I knew my cousin was finally going to make it. He graduated from
dealing with all the emotions around startups to actually working the mundane,
small, detailed problems that really make a business hum. There won't be any
books or seminars on how to create a renewable energy manufacturing business
-- he's making up the book as he goes along. That's what real business
building is about. Not about creating some cool new thing or solving world
hunger. Of course, nothing wrong with chasing a dream -- as long as you don't
delude yourself and know what the numbers say. The trick is graduating from
"feel good" startups to actual, real, down-and-dirty, numbers-driven, boring
startups.
~~~
ja27
If people are already writing books about doing it, there aren't many
opportunities left - except in selling books about it.
------
fookyong
compete on anything, anything other than price.
\- design
\- customer service
\- aim for hardcore users
\- aim for entry-level users
\- velocity of improvements
\- tone (is your competition "enterprisey"? be more friendly and mainstream)
etc. this is not an exhaustive list. there's always a way to differentiate.
------
wpietri
> Every viable web startup idea that I can think of has already been done by
> other startups who have been there many years before.
You aren't looking hard enough. At work, about once a week we come up with
another perfectly viable startup idea. We're already working on one, though,
so we file those away just in case.
You're probably looking in the wrong place. You could be mainly looking at
existing companies, which of course means you won't think of anything new. Or
you could be paying attention mainly to the obvious parts of yourself. But
since people like us make startups, the obvious things we need are already
covered.
Instead, go look at other people. Really look. Be an anthropologist at the
ballpark, a psychologist at the coffee shop, a sociologist at the grocery
store, a short-story writer at the bar. Look at the problems people really
have and ask: could I build something that would help?
If you think the answer is yes, go pick up something like "The Entrepreneur's
Guide to Customer Development", or go do a Lean Startup Machine weekend. Learn
how to test your ideas before you write code. When you find an idea you can't
kill without building it (and find it you will) then go build it.
------
wccrawford
Offering different levels of service for different amounts of money is a valid
competition tactic. There are plenty of people who would forego bells and
whistles to pay less for a service.
Of course, that depends on the features and service and price, but that's all
up to you.
It's not unethical at all. It's how capitalism works.
------
ankitshah
Entrepreneurs shouldn't be building things for the sake of making money. If
you're an entrepreneur, it's your job to solve real problems that people have.
It's never about you. It's always about the people you're serving.
~~~
lsc
Sure, that's another way of looking at it. (I mean, obviously, nobody is going
_actually_ believe that a businessman doesn't care about money, but looking at
your idea from the point of view of "what problem am I solving" I think, is a
great thing to do, and many people respond better to the "change the world"
rhetoric than "make lots of money" rhetoric, even though we all know that the
speaker is saying the same thing.)
"If I made something like service X, only cheaper, would that solve a real
problem that people have?"
which is the same question the OP is asking, really, just a different way of
phrasing it.
------
webwright
No. Price is a signal of value-- you'll basically get all of the cheap-bastard
customers for whom a $5/month savings is worthwhile.
Additionally, you'll be hamstrung from a budget point of view in terms of
marketing and product dev budgets.
That said, there are magical price points and economies that technology can
get you. For example, Encarta (the CD-ROM encyclopedia) gutted the door-to-
door encyclopedia business because they could be cheap with a high profit
margin.
So instead of trying to undercut an efficient technology startup, try to
undercut someone (or a whole industry) who isn't using technology effectively.
------
mva
Are there any pain points in these services which you are currently
experiencing? If so, focus on those and that's how to differentiate.
I don't think competing on price will help you a lot: 1\. People use a certain
tool because they like it and they are willing to pay for it. A couple of
dollar less, won't convince them to use your tool. 2\. Too low prices tools
makes people think there is something wrong with it. 3\. You won't survice
when you don't charge enough.
There is always a market for another tool. As long as you solve a problem,
you'll attract users.
------
mdesq
I wouldn't recommend competing primarily on price. Start fresh with solving
the problem in a way you think would address the needs of the market better.
MP3 players existed well before the iPod and cost a lot less.
Find and talk to target customers and try to discern what would meet their
needs best. I've been trying to take Jason Cohen's number of 30 to
heart...find 30 customers who would buy your product, or tweak your offering
until you do. Don't ignore the competition entirely, but don't base what you
do just on what is out there.
------
davidw
Go niche, rather than trying to compete on price. They've been doing it longer
so are likely better at it, and therefore could drop their prices even lower
if they wanted to.
~~~
ed209
I totally agree. Going niche is also much easier if you have less resources.
It makes targeting your potential customers much easier.
Find a niche and find how you can optimise any existing services for that
niche. You can always expand beyond that later on.
------
meric
What about a repository hosting service for non-source code related projects?
Office workers don't use git, yet.
>> I'm thinking of just copying other startups but charge less as a possible
strategy. Is this a good idea?
No. As others mentioned, existing startups will be better than you are at the
same problem because they've been doing it longer. As a result they can always
charge lower than you.
What you can do is take an existing startup idea and aim it at a totally
different class of users. For the example above, instead of recreating git,
what about Google Docs with version history, and aim it at office workers?
They don't use Google docs much because Word is almost better at everyway
except sharing, which they do using email instead of via Google docs. From
friends' anecdotes, it's because email provides crude version history, but
google docs doesn't even provide that.
Just an example.
^^ The above things I said was what I learned in MKTG1001 Marketing Principles
class. Business School makes sense some of the time, I think.
~~~
qohen
In this vein, if you want this kind of functionality, the following might be
worth checking out--a plug-in for WordPress that turns it into a version-
control system for any type of file:
<http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-document-revisions/>
"WP Document Revisions is a document management and version control plugin.
Built for time-sensitive and mission-critical projects, teams can
collaboratively edit files of any format -- text documents, spreadsheets,
images, sheet music... anything -- all the while, seamlessly tracking the
document's progress as it moves through your organization's existing
workflow."
More info (incl. screencast):
[http://ben.balter.com/2011/08/29/wp-document-revisions-
docum...](http://ben.balter.com/2011/08/29/wp-document-revisions-document-
management-version-control-wordpress/)
------
D0rkvsMaximvs
What you CAN do is take someone's idea and focus it very heavily in a single
market or vertical. Provide options that that the original innovator
can't/won't do.
For example, for all of the great web-based services that exist, very few of
them are actually prepared to adequately serve highly regulated/restricted
markets like medical/legal/nat.security/etc.
If you made a Gitub that does a great job of dealing with compliance in any of
those one fields, you just might have a niche. And it might be a niche that
Github didn't want anyway. (this is just an example, for all I know, github
does a great job in these areas).
The best part is that you have an opportunity to innovate....yay YOU!
------
sasha-dv
> _... charge less as a possible strategy. Is this a good idea?_
Usually not. Competing on price is almost always a bad idea. There are two
exceptions to this rule I can think of:
1\. Your "knockoff target" is the only game in town and because of that they
are able to charge a lot.
2\. Their service is expensive to run because their infrastructure costs a lot
(lots of servers, expensive proprietary app stack, ...) while you're able to
run your service on significantly less expensive infrastructure.
The better approach is to see what their existing customers are bitching
about. Where's the bitching there's a problem in need of a solution (and an
opportunity to make money).
------
noahc
Here's how I'd think about it...
1\. If someone is already charging for it and they have customers, they've
already done the hard work. Now you can copy them.
2\. You need to solve a problem better than anyone else. There are lots of
cars, but people buy a partiuclar one because it moves heavy things better, or
impresses the mother in law more, etc.
3\. You should pick a problem that really sucks and charge more for it. I'm
sure there is a specialized case you can solve for related to repo hosting.
Solve that really well and people will gladly pay more for it than github.
------
ig1
Competing on price is a bad idea unless you can substantially change the cost
model.
If you're competing on price you'll have a much smaller margin and you'll get
the worst customers.
When your competitors innovate or increase spending (on talent, marketing,
etc.) you just won't be able to follow because you won't have the margins.
On the other hand if you can shift the costs of business then that can be a
very strong competitive edge, as you can have higher margins at the same price
point as your competitor.
------
badclient
As a counterpoint to the stream of _don't compete on price_ posts, I'd say
leave all options open and look for one where the LTV of your customer is
greater than your cost per cust acquisition.
So if charging a buck instead of ten bucks gets you 100 customers instead of
ten, is may be worth looking into.
------
rexf
That's what I've thought at times, but then I've come to the conclusion that:
Think about the population of big internet sites (google, fb, etc) there will
ever be. There are countless of these sites that have yet to be created as of
today. Therefore, there's plenty of opportunity.
------
antihero
If you can do the same thing for less money, that's just good business. If
you're stealing someone's unique idea, that's still business, just not
particularly moral.
------
jorangreef
Attitude is everything.
Read Henry Ford's autobiography: <http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/7213>
------
lsc
Well, obviously _I_ think so. Especially in the infrastructure industry,
starting with very low prices and slowly working your way up the food chain is
essentially how it's done. It's easy in the computer-infrastructure market,
too; you simply don't lower your prices as fast as moore's law lowers your
hardware costs.
I mean, you also need to think about your market and what they care about. It
is a given, I think, that if you are breaking into an established market, you
will be forced to accept lower margin than the established competition. But
some markets? lowering the price won't help you. In those markets, don't lower
your price, but spend a larger percentage of your revenues on sales or
advertising. In some markets, like say contracting to 'enterprise' customers,
it makes sense to actually charge more and give most of that to a middleman;
I've never been able to get as much money directly renting myself out as I
could going through a middleman, even after you take out the middleman's cut.
Large corporations are more concerned about following the procedures than
saving 50%. On the other hand, small companies? they'll switch providers for a
10% discount sometimes. Individuals paying with post-tax money can be even
tighter than small companies. So know your market, and know if spending more
on sales/marketing makes more sense or if firing the salesman and knocking his
commission off the price will sell you more.
Another thing; Even if you provide the same service as the existing player, if
your prices are significantly lower, you will probably be targeting a
different market. I mean, I steal some customers from slicehost, but I think
most of those are older customers who joined up when slicehost was small and
cheaper. These days, really, I doubt there is a lot of overlap between the
sort of people who would consider slicehost and the sort of people who would
consider me.
Really, I think the slicehost example is a good one; back in the day,
Slicehost was seen as the only player (marketing failure, I think, on Linode's
part, mostly, if I'm remembering the timeline right. Linode was UML a long
time ago, which is really a different product, but I think Linode was Xen by
the time Slicehost hit the market. At the time, I was also selling Xen VPSs,
but I was in no way a serious player.) So, there were a lot of people on
Slicehost who switched to Linode or to me as time went on, as they were
individuals or small companies.
But large companies? they want the big name, and barring a buyout, Linode and
I can't give them that. (Linode is earning a reputation on their own, which is
great for them, and really, for me too, because they have no reason to lower
their prices as fast as they would otherwise. But they are a long ways from
having the name that rackspace has.)
I was doing some consulting the other day for a friend who works for a very
large company. They are paying rather a lot for dog-slow OpenVZ VPSs provided
by Verio. They could have gotten a better deal almost anywhere, but they had
the relationship with Verio.
------
diolpah
We chose to enter a business that has been saturated since 1999. Why? Because
it was quite clear that most of the companies in the space were doing it wrong
and inefficiently. We identified _plenty_ of things that we could do better,
and we executed on those things.
It's fairy straightforward to find a niche where the incumbents are operating
sub-optimally.
------
nirvana
To compete on price, the prospect has to have heard about your business, _and_
heard about your competition _and_ realize that your price is better. That's a
lot of conditions. The bigger struggle is getting the prospect to even know
you exist in the first place.
One way to compete on price is to find something you could replicate, take
their price and quadruple it. By charging 4 times as much, you can spend a lot
more on marketing. Sure you'll lose some sales to people who price shop, but
that's a small part of the market. It's possible that with four times the
marketing budget you could bring in more than four times the number of
customers of your competition. I don't know.
This might work best where your primary value add is repackaging a scalable
service that is mostly offered by others.
Maybe you could copy patio11's appointment reminder service, only charge four
times as much. There are a lot of businesses in the USA that take
appointments... with the higher margins, maybe you can afford to send every
one of them a nice packet of information.
The approach I take, though, is to do something original. Even if others have
done it (and others are trying what we're trying, but nobodies really been
successful) I expect we'll do ok because the opportunity is huge and there
aren't that many others doing it.
But even still, I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't think that I had a really
compelling competitive advantage. If the others weren't totally screwing up
the opportunity, I'd be a lot less interested.
I think github is NOT screwing up their opportunity, and so that might not be
a business to try and compete with... but there are lots of ideas... just find
something where you can do it better than anyone else, or where you _think_
you have a compelling advantage.... that would be the idea to pursue.
Maybe charing four times as much would give you a compelling advantage in
marketing, I don't know. But that's the kind of price competition I'd go
for.... otherwise, have your own spin and then use that difference to find the
part of (a preferably very large) market to get for yourself.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Startup Stock Option Changes - beninato
https://medium.com/@beninato/startup-stock-option-changes-5df706da0317
======
diego
Backloaded vesting seems like a terrible idea. It puts the employee in a
really vulnerable position. As a company grows, the absolute value that a
given person generates should decrease relative to everyone else. The function
(relative value created this month / stock vested) decreases even more
quickly. This may create an incentive to fire (or at least not try to retain)
an employee after the first or second years. The founders may not need to
increase this person's salary because of the perceived value to come, so this
person may end up making less money than later employees.
I would not even think of proposing a backloaded vesting schedule to an
employee. There's nothing wrong with an even vesting schedule in terms of
employee alignment. If you cannot retain an early employee after year 1 or 2
you have other problems.
~~~
Stasis5001
I agree. I came across this once, and ran the following model. Assume you
assess the expected value of the equity grant to be, let's say, $100k over 4
years. Then this means your total comp will rise by $10k a year, which
probably is comparable to your natural gain in market value. Thus this is
equivalent to taking a similar offer except with $40k in equity with linear
vesting, and either getting a raise or switching companies to get the
$10k/year raise.
What this analysis omits is that the expected value calculation ignores the
fact that the equity far exceeding the expected value is correlated with a
desire to stay at the company, which makes the backloaded vesting irrelevant.
If you interpolate a bit to account for that correlation, I personally started
concluding the $100k offer became more like $50-60k, which dropped the offer
below market rate and I walked.
------
rdl
When a company refuses to disclose the fully diluted number of shares, what do
you do? Assume it is the number of shares authorized (which you can find for
$20 at
[https://delecorp.delaware.gov/tin/GINameSearch.jsp](https://delecorp.delaware.gov/tin/GINameSearch.jsp))?
~~~
nemanja
That is the upper bound that is generally much higher than the fully diluted
count, so not a good proxy. However, it would be a fair assumption on your
part since you are not given the right level of transparency. At any rate,
probably best to be firm about the ask and just walk away if you dont get it,
since it is not a good sign for things to come. Unless, of course, you would
be okay to work there if they dont disclose you a salary (salary? dont worry
about it...)
~~~
rdl
Is it an absolute upper bound? Is there a legal prohibition against creating
derivative instruments (options, contracts secured by issuance of stock, etc.)
in excess of authorized-at-time-of-execution?
~~~
nemanja
in practice, it is set very high to cover all conversions and future capital
needs and then some. however, it can be increased if needed, with a
sharedholder vote.
------
wdewind
I feel like this hardly touches on the main issues. It really doesn't matter
what % of the company you are given, there are tons of other factors (such as
the class of stock) that can effect your future dilution, as well as the value
of the options independent of dilution (for instance if there is a right to
repurchase your options are worth significantly less because there is a huge
risk component added to them). TLDR: it's your responsibility to understand
the agreement you are signing. If you can't, you need to give it to someone
impartial who does and can advise you.
Also, re: #3 after 90 days (3 months technically) the SEC eliminates many tax
benefits you get from your options being classified as ISOs, so while
extending the time you have to purchase is helpful, it's not like it's as
simple as giving you more time to exercise. Many things change after those 90
days that have nothing to do with your company's policy.
~~~
beninato
Not sure what you mean about class of stock. Almost all employee options are
common stock. Good point about repurchase rights. I should probably add a
section on that. On the 90 day issue, usually those ISOs are converted to
NQSOs after 90 days.
------
johnrob
Possible downside to 10/20/30/40: does this make employees less mobile? From
the company perspective, if we all start imposing this schedule, it might harm
the recruiting pipeline. While startups all want committed employees, to what
degree are they depending on the fact that, in the case of success, they can
poach heavily from employees that have 1-2 years of tenure at their existing
jobs?
Side effects are always important to consider. The "law of unintended
consequences" is powerful.
------
birken
A lot of great suggestions.
I'd consider lack of #1 and #2 as dealbreakers. Any company that doesn't allow
early exercise is being unfair to early employees for no reason, and not
providing basic cap table information makes stock options numbers impossible
to value.
#3 is great, but it is much more progressive. I'd value a company's offer more
highly if they offered this, but it wouldn't be a dealbreaker if the company
didn't.
As for number #4, I think 10/20/30/40 vesting is way too bottom heavy. The
problem is the employer can always fire you if they want, and if the company
blows way up in value in 2-3 years, they might prefer to fire you than give
you so much stock. This reportedly happened at Zynga so it isn't unheard of.
You'd hope to never join a company with this type of leadership, but as an
employee you don't have much power so it is good to be defensive about it.
Maybe I wouldn't mind a minor tweak like 20%/25%/25%/30%, but I'd prefer
25%/25%/25%/25% with a culture of refresher grants to high performers (which
accomplishes the same thing).
The difference between founder stock and employee stock options is already so
large, I don't think option holders really need to make any concessions (like
bottom heavy vesting) to get some common sense benefits to stock options.
It also is important to educate people about these differences. I hope that
companies that do #1, #2 and #3 have a nice guide on their offer letters
explaining why this is beneficial to potential employees.
~~~
SeoxyS
The problem with refresher grants (and the thing that people don't understand)
is that they tend to be near worthless due to the strike price. If the company
is doing well, and you've stuck around for several year, the price on the
options is probably so high you're unlikely to make much money off of it.
~~~
birken
In comparison to an early grant a refresher grant will be smaller and worth
less, but that doesn't make it "near" worthless.
First, if you have 7 years to decide if you want to exercise it, then every
stock option has risk-free upside regardless of the strike price. Without the
7-year rule then the upside isn't so clear cut, but that doesn't mean they are
near worthless at all.
Second, companies really don't grow that quickly. Over a 1 or 2 year time
horizon, even a really successful company will 2x-4x in value (and the common
stock might grow even less than this). If the strike price was low on the
original grant, the strike price will also probably be pretty low on the
refresher grant. Especially at early stages of a company's life when the
options are priced at essentially zero, even if you 5 or 10x the value, the
strike price will still be very low.
When you have more established companies and higher strikes prices, it is less
of an issue because there might be a shorter term path to liquidity which
takes away risk of exercising without being able to sell the stock.
~~~
SeoxyS
The dramatic difference in price is really between pre-funding to post-
funding. e.g. I know many companies where options were granted at 1c a piece,
even as seed notes and safes were given out, but as soon as the Series A
equity round hits, the 409A & thus options grant went up to $0.50+. That's a
huge difference.
That said, your point about having 7 years to decide is entirely fair, and
mostly negates that downside.
------
ap22213
Honestly, 4 year vesting schedules give me almost zero incentive to work
harder.
The reason is this: These days, founders are more likely to try to make their
companies look attractive as acquisition targets than try to grow their
businesses long-term. Therefore, except for rare companies with exceptional
growth potential, an employee can expect the company to either fail quickly or
get acquired. So, rarely do typical startups last 4 years.
Further, since it's up to the board and the acquiring company to trigger full
vesting on acquisition, and since boards and acquiring companies have no
incentive to do so, most employees are left with much less than 4 years of
vested options.
~~~
SeoxyS
Any stock option worth anything will take 5-10 years to return. You'll know
early on if it fails, but any acquisition within the first couple years won't
return much to the rank and file.
------
kspaans
This may be country-specific, but can options be put in tax-free accounts like
TFSAs (Canada), (N)ISAs (UK), or (I think) IRAs (US)? Wouldn't that mitigate
the capital gains tax issues?
~~~
SeoxyS
In the US, with enough foresight, they can be purchased through a Roth IRA,
which would prevent any tax from being applied. The (major) caveats are three-
fold:
1) The money cannot be touched until retirement. So… if it turns out to be
Uber and worth hundreds of millions, you can't touch _any of it_! It's
probably a good idea to only put 25-50% of your stock in the account.
2) You can only contribute a tiny amount yearly to an IRA ($6k I think). So,
the options strike price must be dirt-cheap for this to make sense.
3) Actually doing it is quite complex, and requires a third-party account
custodian. If you're accepting a random startup offer pre-funding (the only
time you'd have essentially free options, allowing #2 above not to be an
issue), you're unlikely to go through that trouble.
\--
The huge benefit, however, is that if you do succeed in hitting in big with
something that way, you'll have a gigantic Roth IRA balance, tax-free, and
you'll be able to use it to make other investments, whose cost basis _and_
profits will all be tax-free.
[https://www.google.com/?q=max+levchin+paypal+roth+ira](https://www.google.com/?q=max+levchin+paypal+roth+ira)
~~~
rdl
Are you talking about a "ROBS" (Rollover As Business Startup) thing? The IRS
hates them, but I believe they're technically legal.
I wasn't sure if you could do it with a Roth IRA vs. with a (non-Roth) 401k,
though.
------
william_hc
Why do we give out options instead of stock in the first place?
~~~
rdl
Tax reasons and complications with having >500 shareholders (and shareholder
information, etc. rights in general), plus administrative costs.
Early on, you issue founder grants if you want, at common stock price, paid in
cash. A company is worth $100 in total, so you can buy 10% of it for $10.
Common and preferred can run separately in terms of price (although there's
some relationship between the two; more enforced now than in the past.)
After Series A, 1% of the company would be a real amount of money -- maybe a
$10mm valuation, so 1% would cost your engineer $100k at hiring. That's a lot
of cash for an employee to invest.
~~~
scurvy
> 500 unaccredited share holders. The JOBS act got rid of the 500 shareholder
> arbitrary limit. It's now 2000 total or 500 unaccredited.
~~~
rdl
The #1 reason for all of this is actually "that's how it has always been
done", which is strong motivation for non-core things in a startup.
------
seattle_spring
My retention equity grant after an acquisition was 10/20/30/40\. I just left
after 2 years partially because I realized that the schedule was insulting and
I had barely vested a small slice of the pie.
~~~
rdl
I have a 2 year cliff (which I would hit 2 June 2016) on 4 year vest. I would
not recommend this to anyone on either side of any transaction.
~~~
beninato
I've never seen a 2 year cliff. Can you say what company?
~~~
rdl
Not standard at the company. Unique as part of acquisition.
~~~
beninato
Got it thanks. There are all sorts of nonstandard things that happen after
acquisitions. Too hard to capture those here.
~~~
rdl
1/2/3/4 is much more common in acquisitions than it is anywhere else, so maybe
the dystopia that is these kind of deals will become the norm for regular
hiring.
------
beninato
Based upon the comments, I added some additions to the end of the post. Thanks
for raising those issues!
------
sjg007
Definitely needs to change.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Why does HN not allow you to modify your comments after 1 hour? - wyw
I don't know of any other sites that do this. Just wondering what the rationale is.
======
pg
You need to be able to modify comments for some amount of time to correct
typos, but if you can modify them for too long you can rewrite history. The
current time limits are arbitrary but seem roughly correct, judging from the
fact that users complain roughly equally about missing typos till it's too
late, and people they're arguing with rewriting their comments.
~~~
wyw
It seems the assumption is that after you make a comment you are actively
checking the thread for some time afterwards. Perhaps this works here because
of a correct assumption about how people use HN but a time-constrained
lifestyle might prevent this in some other groups.
~~~
jacquesm
All lifestyles are time-constrained, it is just a matter of scale.
------
stijnm
I think the main reason is to keep the context of a discussion in a thread.
Turning your question around: Why would you want to modify a comment after one
hour?
Read your comment before posting and be happy with it at that time of posting.
If you come to new insights later then post another comment. There's no shame
in that.
~~~
wyw
I might want to modify it after one hour for the same reason I might want to
modify it after one minute.
Perhaps I'm not checking HN regularly that day and make an offhand comment. In
that case, if I come back a few hours later and recognize a boo-boo, it would
be nice to be able to correct my mistake to avoid a permanent record of my
foolishness.
~~~
stijnm
I think your last sentence "and recognize a boo-boo, it would be nice to be
able to correct my mistake to avoid a permanent record of my foolishness"
How can you make a mistake in a comment? If you don't mean what you write
don't post it... And don't worry about people calling you foolish (I am sure
there is a famous quote for that to put it more eloquently).
Also, note that there is no post preview when you submit so being able to
modify after you post fills that functionality gap.
~~~
russell
Sometimes I come back later to find that people have misinterpreted my comment
due to tone or incomplete or misstated argument. Within the hour I can add an
"EDIT" to clarify what I meant. I suppose I should take the time to make is
sound in the first place, but often the time isnt there.
Perhaps a reasonable compromise would be to have the ability to add a
timestamped addendum, without being able to edit the original. I would still
want the one-hour free edit though.
------
jacquesm
It's to make sure that history does not get 'revised'
As it is there is already plenty of that going on.
I'd be fine with locking a posting or only amending it after it gets 1 comment
or upvote (or downvote).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Smart Gun Doesn’t Exist Due to Shooter Backlash - jseliger
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-04-15/the-smart-gun-doesn-t-exist-because-of-new-jersey-and-the-nra
======
sarcasmatwork
Wrong! Authors reasons fail many times based on their opinions, or bad poll
that does not speak for the majority.
>This is the story of why the multibillion-dollar American gun industry hasn’t
yet managed to make guns any smarter.
No, this is a rant from those that lack proper education for guns and why we
have them and why we have no need for a "smart gun".
Why do we need a smart gun, where the ones we have today are just fine? We
dont need to have another point of failure. Authors dont see this perspective.
This smart gun tech wont be used or implemented on any of the existing guns.
How does this solve anything but make more complications and would only just
make the more expensive?
Instead if vilifying guns and passing laws that clearly dont work has not
helped. Pushing education about them would be far superior and save more
life's imho. High Schools back in the day had hunters safety class for
example.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How to Calculate the Weekday from a Date - agiri
https://medium.com/cantors-paradise/how-to-perform-calendar-calculations-5617f35d3070
======
WheelsAtLarge
I've got a way easier method. Ask Google or Alexa.
------
laronian
Doesn't work for my birthday 06/10/82..
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Failure of Neal Stephenson Kickstarter - lispython
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/09/clang-kickstarter/
======
unoti
The Clang kickstarter announcement underscores the importance of good public-
facing communications, which is sorely lacking here. I'm not too astonished
that the devs _feel_ the way the announcement reads, but this shows how
there's value in having "inside words", and a different public-facing voice.
Their public-facing communications should be intended to improve the company's
prospects, not hurt them.
------
Articulate
Dang- their kickstarter video was so incredible that all I wanted was for this
project to work. The letter they have does nothing to acknowledge the let down
of the people, and didn't take responsibility... both parts of legitimate
apologies.
------
peterclary
I can see it now: "I enjoyed reading this Neal Stephenson Kickstarter, but it
didn't have a conventional denouement, and had lots of loose ends."
------
samstave
In a diamond age of VC funding, his effort to crowdfund snowcrashed.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A computer science fiction novel, Blue Screen - kylebenzle
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Screen-Peter-Gustafson-Defragmented-ebook/dp/B084GHLYSX/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Blue+Screen%3A+How+Peter+Gustafson+Defragmented+the+World&qid=1593744896&s=digital-text&sr=1-2
======
kylebenzle
Peter Gustafson wants to save the world. In the year 2984, Peter is an average
kid with a secret; he’s a well-behaved tenth-grader by day but cryptographic
entrepreneur and hacker by night. When the electricity mysteriously goes out
in his hometown, Peter takes it upon himself to investigate. The adventure
leads the young hacker to a large transmitting station and into a battle of
wits with the greatest AI ever created. The machine requires a human to help
"throw the switch" and give it full control so engineered the power outage as
a test to lure its latest recruit, Peter Gustafson.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Rewards for Opinions Privacy Policy - hispanic
https://www.rewardsforopinions.com/privacy.html
======
hispanic
"Six months following your inactivity with the panel Sites and/or uninstalling
the Application/Services, RN may transfer your PII to a third party data
broker and/or data management platform for purposes of resale/reuse by such
third party."
I feel like this is a great example of how people can easily and unwittingly
hand over their personal data for resale. I was going to sign-up for this in
order to earn some Southwest Rapid Rewards points, but then I read the privacy
policy. To their credit, they provide an opt-out. But, the sheer length of the
policy is off-putting.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Thomas Piketty: Clamping down with law and order will not be enough - e15ctr0n
http://piketty.blog.lemonde.fr/2015/11/24/clamping-down-with-law-and-order-will-not-be-enough/
======
mikeash
There is a lot of _extremely_ opinionated and pointed discussion going on in
these comments.
How many of you read the article?
How many of you read the _original_ article, the one published in Le Monde, in
French?
I have a sneaking suspicion that most of the people here criticizing what
Piketty is saying don't even know what he is saying.
~~~
coffeevradar
Here's an English translation:
[http://piketty.blog.lemonde.fr/2015/11/24/clamping-down-
with...](http://piketty.blog.lemonde.fr/2015/11/24/clamping-down-with-law-and-
order-will-not-be-enough/)
~~~
dang
Since that's as close as we can get to the original source in English, let's
just change the URL to it.
Was
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/30/why-i...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/30/why-
inequality-is-to-blame-for-the-rise-of-the-islamic-state/).
------
nateberkopec
I don't understand why we shouldn't believe what's coming straight out of
ISIS' mouth.
ISIS has said they're killing us because of their interpretation of a book
written in the first millennia. They say this every time they attack us. Yet
(mostly on the left) we keep coming up with reasons why this isn't the case.
"No, actually, you're not attacking us for that reason, really it's our fault
because we gave the oil to the emirs."
When someone shoots up a Planned Parenthood, however, he _doesn 't even have
to make a public statement_ and the same people are quick to blame Christian
beliefs or rhetoric and immediately accept the ideological reason for the
violence. Why don't we say that gunmen attack Planned Parenthoods because of
income inequality in the United States?
Finally, is there anywhere to find the original article by Piketty in English?
The linked version is in French.
~~~
criley2
"I don't understand why we shouldn't believe what's coming straight out of
ISIS' mouth."
Because they're proven masters at propaganda and messaging. To take prop at
face value is the definition of naive.
"ISIS has said they're killing us because of their interpretation of a book
written in the first millennia."
That's their justification for their actions, not the reason. Come on.
Recruiting for ISIS pays $5000 - $10000 per successful recruit.
If their true motivation is purely religious, if religion is the INCENTIVE,
then why incentivize people with lump sumps larger than yearly income from
honest work?
ISIS represents a way out of poverty, at least, that's how they sell it in
recruiting.
"When someone shoots up a Planned Parenthood, however, he doesn't even have to
make a public statement and the same people are quick to blame Christian
beliefs or rhetoric and immediately accept the ideological reason for the
violence."
We call that quid pro quo, and yes, it's intentional. If Islam itself is
responsible for the actions of a minority of a minority, then it stands to
reason that Christianity itself is responsible for the actions of a minority
of a minority. So long as conservatives blame Islam in general for ISIS, we
will blame Christianity in general for Westboro Baptist, for Clinic
Terrorists, for Jehovah Witness child negligence murder, etc.
"Why don't we say that gunmen attack Planned Parenthoods because of income
inequality in the United States?"
We do, often, we bemoan the war against education (ignorance as pride) and
growing wealth inequality for social tension and violence both here in America
and worldwide.
~~~
forrestthewoods
Ah. People are in poverty and to get out of poverty they blow themselves up in
a public place such that they can murder a bunch of innocent civilians in the
process. Got it. Good to know.
~~~
criley2
If your country was destroyed, there was no jobs, you had no money, no food,
your home was crumbling, your siblings starving, your parents helpless... and
you were 17 and powerless, and someone offered you $10,000 to do it... would
you? Would you do something terrible to ensure that your family got a huge
payday that would put food on their table for potentially years?
~~~
forrestthewoods
No. No I would not murder dozens of innocent people. There's a lot of poverty
in the world and the vast majority of the impoverished do not commit such
atrocities.
~~~
criley2
"no I wouldn't"
I guess it was too much to ask you to walk a mile in their shoes, because we
internet dwelling rich folk literally cannot comprehend poverty on this level,
of watching your family die before your eyes as a teenager.
"vast majority of the impoverished do not commit such atrocities."
The vast majority don't have a years pay untaxed offered, never have to make
the choice. Easy to say they won't do something when they have no option to do
it.
Then again, with how INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL ISIS has been at recruiting perhaps
you need to reevaluate your opinion of how the impoverished of the world
behave when given opportunity.
Many impoverished will loot during riots or engage in widespread gang violence
in cities, they'll overthrow secular governments in favor of Islamic ones in
the Arab Spring, they'll take the money and kill for ISIS.
I think people need to be more honest and realize that true destitution means
they don't have to play within the bounds of economic and moral systems. We're
controlled by our jobs and our money, and if we have neither, we will do
whatever is necessary to provide for ourselves and our families, including
hurting people "from other tribes".
~~~
forrestthewoods
It is possible for me to walk two miles and still conclude that no I would not
purposefully murder dozens of innocent civilians. It's possible I've even
thought about this before.
But it's cool that you think there's only one logical outcome and anyone who
disagrees is just too unempathetic to see why your view is the only correct
view.
~~~
dang
Please don't use snark when the topic is already inflammatory.
------
judah
The cause of ISIS is Islamic extremism.
Not income inequality. Not climate change. Islamic extremism.
Those who claim otherwise are merely playing politics to advance political
agendas.
Sam Harris, the well-known atheist author and speaker, describes such people
well[0]:
"These people are part of what [Muslim reformist] Maajid Nawaz has termed the
“regressive Left”—pseudo-liberals who are so blinded by identity politics that
they reliably take the side of a backward mob over one of its victims. Rather
than protect individual women, apostates, intellectuals, cartoonists,
novelists, and true liberals from the intolerance of religious imbeciles, they
protect these theocrats from criticism."
To say the problem with ISIS is anything other than Islamic extremism is a red
herring. In this case, Piketty has long been advancing his political agenda
regarding income inequality. He is merely playing politics here, using the
ISIS problem to advance his agenda.
[0]: [http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/sam-harris-the-salon-
inte...](http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/sam-harris-the-salon-interview)
~~~
bosdev
What is the origin of the Islamic extremism? Why does this group of Muslims
kill people while the vast majority do not?
~~~
RickHull
Many Muslims are subject to extreme indoctrination and brainwashing regarding
the metaphysics of martyrdom. Jihadist imams have figured out the virality of
this particular meme, and the environment in which it may take root.
Depressed economic conditions end up gifting jihadist recruiters with more
reasons for individuals to join up and become a martyr.
------
Mikeb85
Just read the article - the Washington post did quite a bit of editorializing.
> Le tout-sécuritaire ne suffira pas
Translated roughly as "Total security will not suffice" (or the "state
security apparatus" will not suffice). His argument isn't that inequality
created ISIS. But rather that:
> C’est une évidence : le terrorisme se nourrit de la poudrière inégalitaire
> moyen-orientale, que nous avons largement contribuée à créer. Daech, « Etat
> islamique en Irak et au Levant », est directement issu de la décomposition
> du régime irakien, et plus généralement de l’effondrement du système de
> frontières établi dans la région en 1920.
He says the evidence shows that terrorism preys on the "powder keg" of middle-
eastern inequality, and that the invasion of Iraq (and destruction of the
previous regime) lead to the creation of ISIS. Not exactly ground breaking.
Anyhow, I'm not going to translate the whole thing, but near the end this:
> Rien ne peut excuser cette dérive sanguinaire, machiste et pathétique.
"Nothing can excuse this bloodthirsty, masochist and pathetic act"
> Tout juste peut-on noter que le chômage et la discrimination professionnelle
> à l’embauche (particulièrement massive pour les personnes qui ont coché
> toutes les bonnes cases en termes de diplôme, expérience, etc., comme l’ont
> montré des travaux récents; voir également ici) ne doivent pas aider.
"We can only note that unemployment and discrimination don't help"
> C’est par le développement social et équitable que la haine sera vaincue.
"It's through social development and equality that hate will be defeated"
Again, not ground breaking. It took the west several reformations of our
culture/religion, and 2 world wars to finally get our heads out of our
proverbial asses. Also, social welfare has played a huge part in the rise of a
real 'middle class'. We aren't as capitalist as we think, and 'socialism' is
part of the reason inequality isn't as bad today as in 1900. But, as the data
shows, inequality is on the rise yet again (as conservative politics are also
on the rise).
------
etangent
He's sort of right, but not in the way this article is going to be interpreted
domestically (see comments in this thread for an example). Oil revenue in the
Gulf countries has enabled wealthy elites to sponsor _madrassas_ around the
world, which are pivotal to the spread of _Wahhabism_ , an arch-conservative
branch of Islam. The Gulf elites are not the cause of Wahhabism (its roots go
further back and it was more of a grassroots movement in the 1970s), but they
are its most important promoters.
Another contributing factor is high birthrate in poor Muslim countries which
has caused a bit of a demographic shock (the low-birthrate Europe has
simultaneously benefitted and suffered from it, first importing immigrants
from MENA as a source of cheap labor, and them having to deal with the
disaffected and radicalized 2nd generation of the original immigrants, after
failing to integrate them successfully into the mainstream society). It is no
secret to anyone that poor uneducated people who are also highly religious
tend to have more kids on average. This is one of the primary causes behind
Islamisation of Turkey, formerly a staunchly secular country. Turkey is now,
together with the Gulf countries, one of the major "sticks in the wheel"
behind eradicating ISIS in Syria.
------
Brakenshire
I don't really see the controversy, it's just a reframing of well-known issues
about the conflict, using different terminology.
For instance, there's obviously an economic element to the conflict between
the richer, more urban Shia Alawites who live principally in the Western part
of Syria, and the poorer, more rural Sunni population. I have read that part
of the destabilization is down to mass movements of the urban poor into the
cities in the years running up to the conflict.
And Saudi Arabia and other wealthy oil rich states clearly provide religious
and armaments funding to support hardline interpretations of Islam, which
means that the conflict between Shia and Sunni takes on a much more
fundamentalist tone. That power arises from their wealth relative to other
regions in the area.
As I say, I don't think either of these things are particularly controversial.
If we were talking about the rural poor moving into the cities in China, we
wouldn't have a problem talking about it as an issue of income inequality. It
seems quite obvious that this is a major issue in a lot of the developing
world (where income inequality tends to be far higher than in the West,
particularly in resource rich countries).
I wouldn't say this has much relevance to policy in the developed world. It
would be dubious if Piketty tried to use this to draw conclusions about the
West, but I can't see he has done that.
~~~
mikeash
It's amazing to watch phrases that get used in politics take on a life of
their own.
If you say, "Revolutions happen when the masses can't afford to eat," probably
nobody will bat an eye.
If you say "Revolutions happen when income inequality grows to the point where
the masses can't afford to eat," people freak out.
~~~
dragonwriter
And don't even think about saying the even more accurate, "revolutions often
happen when there is strong income inequality and limited upward mobility, the
rich can afford luxury, the poor can't afford to eat, and the middle/working
class -- who _can_ afford to eat, and even have some leisure to think about
insecurity, and to think about who to _blame_ for their insecurity -- see the
conditions of the poor and the luxury of rich and their own risk of joining
the poor, and blame the rich for it"...
Its rarely the _poor_ who lead who revolutions, its usually the middle/working
class (and often those members of the existing elites that, either from
genuine sympathy or opportunism, decide to take up their cause against the
rest of the elites.)
------
nickpsecurity
It could contribute to it but seems to miss... idk.. the whole history of the
Middle East post Western involvement. The patterns we see today in the Middle
East go back to around 1900 or so with attempts of imperialists to hit them,
divide them, turn them into indentured servants, and take their resources.
Combine that with religious, ethnic, power-related, and financial aspects over
decades to get a huge mess. So, I'd be looking at money, power, religion, and
typical politics as a start.
Looking at that, I see the same trends that relate to violent regime change
and terrorism over there that I always see. It usually involves a Western
power (esp U.S.) covertly screwing with a country to cause a regime change or
battles between them + eastern country (esp Russia) for influence/resources.
The radical ideology and funding put in by Saudi Arabia comes into play. The
damage and power vacuums from an invasion in Iraq and Afghanistan fuels it,
literally with fuel & weapons. ;) Arab Spring and aftermath of that may have
been the final straw setting things in motion.
All in all, looks more like Western imperialism, local dictatorships, and
religious sect (esp Saudi-promoted) combining to create a disaster that leads
to many innocents being beaten, raped, tortured, and murdered over there with
a few in the West, too. Same stuff, same area, different country and year.
And, unlike international media, most of the Western media is consistently
avoiding the U.S. imperialism and Saudi Arabia angles. Just like they did for
Iraq. Just like for 9/11\. The problem isn't income inequality: it's countries
sabotaging other countries with corrupt ideology, covert actions, and overt
war. The result is what CIA types call "blowback." We call it tragedy but they
won't let dots be easily connected.
------
cc_wk
One of the episodes of the 1960s Batman series involved the UN, and seeing
that episode playing in bar a couple of months ago made me think of how no TV
show today would feature a UN plotline; the most likely plotline indeed would
only be about diplomatic immunity - ie how some people get to be above the
law. My point here is that in the late 1960s, international diplomacy was
respected enough to be part of the pop culture conversation. Fifty years
later, teh pop culture conversation centres around popular violence (mass
shootings) and terrorism, like ISIS. It seems to me that in the past, people
had hopes for the future and believed the politicians were working to make a
better world. Today, they don't believe that and see how politicians have
created a world were some people are above the law and the rest of us are
considered irrelevant and to be placated with realty-tv entertainment.
When inequality leads to hopelessness, what are we to honestly expect?
------
Paul_S
Let's call it a contributing factor and make the headline less insane.
~~~
ultramancool
Yes, please stop publishing these ridiculous headlines that seem to be used
just to incite political arguments for clicks and ad revenue.
~~~
mikeash
Where did this headline even come from?
The original headline is "Le tout-sécuritaire ne suffira pas" which they
translated as "Clamping down with law and order will not be enough" (which
looks like a good translation to me). The linked Washington Post article is
titled "This might be the most controversial theory for what’s behind the rise
of ISIS." Yet on HN it's called, "Thomas Piketty: Income inequality is behind
the rise of Islamic State." Was something changed, or did the person who
posted this decide to make up something that would incite controversy?
------
tosseraccount
No Wait! Global Warming Caused ISIS ! Anti-capitalist Naomi Klein says ISIS
and global warming caused by same forces :
[http://junkscience.com/2015/11/anti-capitalist-naomi-
klein-s...](http://junkscience.com/2015/11/anti-capitalist-naomi-klein-says-
isis-and-global-warming-caused-by-same-forces/)
No wait: Obama caused ISIS :
[http://www.nationalreview.com/article/386354/how-obama-
cause...](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/386354/how-obama-caused-isis-
ira-straus)
wait more ... America caused ISIS : [http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-
created-al-qaeda-and-th...](http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-
qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881)
Clinton says Dick Cheney caused ISIS :
[http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Clinton-Cheney-Iraq-
ISIS/20...](http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Clinton-Cheney-Iraq-
ISIS/2014/06/27/id/579645/)
Kerry says Israel caused ISIS: [http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/whos-right-
kerry-believes-isi...](http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/whos-right-kerry-
believes-isis-recruitment-is-caused-by-palestinian-israeli-conflict-while-
singapores-lee-kuan-yew-believes-its-saudi-and-qatari-jihad-ideology/)
Wait ....
------
fecklessyouth
Then what is behind the rise of the Islamic State's recruiting, whose targets
aren't suffering any obvious economic strife?
[http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/world/middleeast/from-
minn...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/world/middleeast/from-minneapolis-
to-isis-an-americans-path-to-jihad.html)
Modern liberalism offers no solution to the problem of evil. It assumes that
as long as your basic needs are met, and you're mentally sane, that you will
behave as a rational, non-violent person. It sees humans as essentially
materialist, subject to the same universal desires, which can all be met in
similar ways, and which are never distorted to any great degree. So it is
stumped by the sort of despair that such jihadists harbor in their hearts, for
according to its philosophical principles, such a thing should not be
possible.
~~~
danans
You statement assumes that everyone who joins/supports ISIS is evil or
brainwashed like the people in that article.
Imagine you are a resident of a town just captured by ISIS in Syria. Assuming
that they don't kill you immediately for being a Shia, Kurd, Christian or
Yazidi, how hard would it be for you to say no to supporting them, when the
alternative is death, or to flee to another place only to be forced into
destitution due to lack of economic opportunity.
No doubt ISIS seems to have a special capability to recruit people with
sociopathic desires, but any army marches on its stomach, and that requires
regular, non-evil people, to participate in the effort.
~~~
jules
This isn't about evil sociopaths, it's about people who are deluded about
what's good and evil. ISIS thinks they are doing good.
------
univalent
The simple counter-argument is that it is not the only driving factor. And
Piketty offers no real proof (by his very lofty standards) to show that this
is the principal contributing factor (which in itself would be huge). A more
interesting question is finding the 'catalyst(s)' that led to the rise of
ISIS.
------
bko
On the surface this explanation doesn't make sense. Is there a correlation
between extremists and countries with high income inequality? If so, provide
some evidence apart from cherry picking countries which happen to have high
inequality and other problems. Why aren't free democratic regimes which also
have high inequality equally plagued by these problems?
Also, energy prices have fallen dramatically, affecting the coffers of many
middle east governments. I don't know why he doesn't address this.
Maybe he addresses these issues in his actual research but it is missing from
every piece trying to link inequality to all societies ills.
~~~
ramason
He is not positing a general theory of income inequality and extremism merely
offering a hypothesis for recent extremism in the middle east. Saying "I think
X is the cause of Y in country Z" is not the same thing as saying X is always
the cause of Y in all countries all the time.
~~~
bko
If you can make causes conditional to one particular location, how is that a
good explanation? Are extremists more likely to be the poorest of society?
From what I read, this is not the case.
~~~
ramason
It happens all the time. Causes lead to different outcomes in different
environments. In biology for example poor diets lead to different diseases in
different parts of the world. Extremists _are_ more likely to be poor. Some
instigators may be well-off people doing it for whatever purposes, but your
rank and file, your average suicide bomber is more likely to be idle,
unemployed with nothing better to do
------
m0th87
Why should this be the "most controversial theory"? Have we already forgotten
what triggered the Arab Spring, and consequently the power vacuum that created
the IS?
The only thing off, as far as I can tell, is the remark that "economic
deprivation and the horrors of wars [...] benefited only a select few of the
region's residents." I'm not sure if this is the WP mis-reading Piketty, but
he makes it pretty clear in Capital that war benefits no one, especially the
super-rich. It's not like the Arab aristocracy were itching for multiple
revolutions that called into doubt the existing power structures.
~~~
bosdev
I think it can be traced well before the Arab Spring, to the (insane) policies
of the US government during the invasion of Iraq.
------
csomar
Given how awful inequality is in the Middle-East and seeing that the United
States is not really far (comparing for France for example), it just made me
realise how worse the situation is in the states.
------
Steko
The rise of ISIS is pretty simple, the power vacuum created by the destruction
of the Ba'athist Iraqi state and the subsequent withdrawal of US troops was
filled in Shi'a areas by Shiite militias and (largely Shiite) Iraqi government
forces, in Kurdish areas by the Peshmerga, and in the Sunni areas by the Sunni
militants who had been fighting the US troops. Lots of groups fought the US of
course, a number were wiped out to varying degrees. Because the US held an
overwhelming advantage in conventional firepower, the only groups with any
lasting "success" were the ones that embraced terrorism as their core of their
operations. When the Americans left the strongest of these groups -- ISI --
consolidated power and the destabilization in Syria created another power
vacuum which ISIS flowed into.
------
vinceguidry
I stopped reading as soon as he compared having few resources to living in
"conditions of semi-slavery". Slavery is the treatment of people as economic
goods to be bought and sold, full-stop. Having to work harder for a living
than others in wealthier areas is not slavery, it's not even close to slavery.
Not being able to leave your hometown because you can't afford a plane ticket
is not slavery. Not being free does not make you a slave.
I dismiss any purported economic argument as a political one when the arguer
makes this misrepresentation. You're not talking about how the world is
anymore, you're talking about how you want it to be.
------
jules
So in the Middle East the top 1% control 26.2% of the wealth (under a "high
inequality model"), and in the US the top 1% control 22.83% of the wealth.
Just 3.5% more and the US will turn into a medieval barbarism state.
When will people stop believing this crap. There is one variable that explains
a tremendous amount of human misery: surrender of the mind to a supreme
authority (human or god). Of course there are other important factors, but
when are we going to acknowledge the elephant in the room?
~~~
mercer
I don't think 'we' have trouble acknowledging your elephant.
Rather, simply pointing at the elephant smashing everything in the room of the
Middle East seems unproductive in light of the fact that we have such an
elephant in our very own room. Ours just happens to not be smashing things
currently.
It _did_ do so quite recently though (and rather more violently that ISIS),
and not just throughout our entire history, but the history of all of
humanity. The elephant is part of human nature.
Isn't it much more productive to look at the many underlying factors that
might cause elephants to go berserk, both external and internal to the human
individual, and then try to find solutions based on that?
Increased income equality might be such a factor, or it might not. But at
least it acknowledges _all_ the elephants in all the rooms, and offers a
possible way out. Pointing at the one elephant somewhere else does no such
thing, and is likely to enrage ours (in fact, it already seems rather
agitated).
Finally, I actually _do_ think that the increasing inequality and
centralization of power in the US _does_ significantly increase the chances of
a regression to a more 'medieval barbarism state'. It's just not happened yet.
------
transfire
And all those spanky new Toyota pick-ups. Uh huh.
~~~
ramason
Can you expand on this a little bit? What exactly are you trying to say?
~~~
e15ctr0n
Oct 6, 2015 - US Officials Ask How ISIS Got So Many Toyota Trucks
[http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-officials-isis-
toyota...](http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-officials-isis-toyota-
trucks/story?id=34266539)
~~~
ramason
But what does this have to do with inequality?
------
kobayashi
Calling for "far more education" does not at all address the inconvenient
facts that education in the Muslim Middle East is illiberal and will not
produce the same effects that increased education in a Western environment
will. See anything by Will McCants or Shadi Hamid for more info.
This is an economist's view of a non-economic problem.
------
beat
This misses the point entirely, I think. The problem isn't income inequality
so much as low income in general in that region. There is very little
opportunity. But low opportunity is coupled with generally high education and
literacy rates and a massive population boom. A young population, unemployed
intellectuals, and authoritarian government has _always_ led to revolution.
Always. It's human nature. It's happened at points in European history, and
it's happened in China and Japan and elsewhere.
As a musician, I play some middle eastern music and own several instruments
from the region. I have a doumbek (cast aluminum goblet drum) from the well-
known GEF in Egypt, and another from Syria. The difference in construction
quality is shocking. When showing the Syrian drum to people, I sometimes say
"You've heard about the precision industrial powerhouses of Syrian
manufacturing, right? No? Here's why." But what's even more shocking is the
difference in the quality of the "good" Egyptian drum versus pretty much any
instrument made in China or Indonesia these days - CNC-milled parts, quality
finishes, and tight construction rule in even the cheapest Asian
manufacturing.
Manufacturing in the Arab world, such as it is, is mostly trapped in the 19th
century, unable to escape craftsman roots. This is terribly inefficient and
unproductive. The Arab world is technologically incapable of manufacturing
complex devices like cars and surface-mount electronics. And it's not for lack
of educated people or a desire to do better. Other forces are at play here.
Revenue from raw resource extraction (oil) is just exploitation, and it's
time-locked. Sooner or later, oil fields run dry, and they'll be back where
they started, basically just agricultural communities. It's a shame, because
the region and cultures there have provided some of the most important
advances in history (like the number zero and algebra), and I'm sure it could
rise to that effectiveness again, given the right conditions.
But oil exploitation is good for both the local authoritarian regimes, and for
the western powers that run their economies on cheap Arab oil. That leads to a
massive militarization and government-level resistance to modernization and
advancement. It sucks. In a way, oil is the worst thing to happen to the
middle east.
And who has an answer? Clearly, the world of desert kingdoms and post-fascist
Baathist regimes is ripe for revolution. But the answers seem to be either go
forward, into the scary world of modern relatively peaceful democracy and
freedom, or backwards into the glory days of centuries ago. And the Islamic
fundamentalists who want to go backwards are strengthened by the general lack
of interest in the west for real democratization, and the preference for petty
regimes we can control from afar.
Sigh.
------
benevol
It's been clear for a very long time - what's needed is: Opportunities for
creation of wealth, access to health care and specifically _mental_ health
care and lots of education.
Next.
~~~
kobayashi
There is absolutely no credible, facts-driven research to suggest that lack of
wealth, access to health care, access to mental health care, or access to
education have a direct correlation to individuals joining terrorist groups or
the rise of such groups. It's just a common trope repeated because it fits
with people's existing ideologies. Terrorism is much more complicated than
that.
~~~
gte525u
That's a bit generalizing. This paper[1] talks about the over-representation
of engineers in violent Islamic organizations. Specifically talks about how
there are fewer engineers in Saudi Arabia and Indonesia versus Palestine and
other countries in the same type of groups. There seems to be /some/
correlation between economic opportunity and sub-segments of the population
joining these types of groups.
[1]
[http://www.sociology.ox.ac.uk/materials/papers/2007-10.pdf](http://www.sociology.ox.ac.uk/materials/papers/2007-10.pdf)
~~~
kobayashi
I can't read the paper now but I've read on that specific topic before. The
assertions were usually that people drawn to the clear-cut answers of
engineering also wanted to organize the world with definitive rights and
wrongs, and those 'black or white, no shades of grey' people are more likely
to agree with the zealotry of terrorist groups.
~~~
gte525u
Same paper - while monoism/simplism/preservatism argument is one of the three
major points the full paper. The rest is worth the time to read.
------
Albright
Wow. Talk about "when all you have is a hammer."
~~~
Bud
You didn't address his argument at all. Just an ad hominem.
Is that because you can't address it? Because his thesis seems quite
reasonable to me. And historically, we certainly know that societies with
extreme income inequality are less stable than those with more equality.
~~~
nostromo
I'll address the argument.
Lots of countries with high income inequality do not have a terrorism problem.
When is the last time Brazilians terrorists attacked New York and/or Paris?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_eq...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality)
~~~
Mikeb85
There's over 50,000 violent deaths per year in Brazil. Not that the Paris
attacks weren't bad, but yes, Brazil suffers from violence due to inequality.
~~~
marknutter
Ok, then how about China.
~~~
Mikeb85
Believe it or not, China has significantly less inequality than Brazil (as
measured by the World Bank)... Not to mention a social net.
------
lsd5you
Here we go again.
Once the obvious cause (religion) has been eliminated, whatever remains,
however unlikely must be the truth.
Except the obvious has only been eliminated in his analysis because of a
dogmatic belief in human/religious/cultural equality (module disadvantages
caused by economics and western foreign policy).
------
duanesmithla79
Islamic State is about religion; not economics.
~~~
nickez
It's most definitely not about religion, these are mostly childish criminals
which are using religion as an excuse to commit even bigger crime.
------
littletimmy
While inequality may be ONE factor, it is definitely not THE factor. Much more
important are the factors of American imperialism, Islamic extremist ideology,
destabilization of Iraq, and so on.
What Piketty is right about, however, is that it is the policies of the West
is in part to blame for the extreme rise of inequality in the Arab world. That
said, I am not too certain Arabs would have fared better on their own.
~~~
Daishiman
No reasonable person would expect there to be a single factor. But some straw
_did_ break the camel's back.
~~~
thinkingkong
We need to start realizing that reality isnt a great headline. Making bold or
absolute claims _is_ a good way. Once we keep that in mind it makes these
conversations easier.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Sass for Designers - joshuacc
http://sonspring.com/journal/sass-for-designers
======
tptacek
For whatever this is worth: you really don't need to have your third-party
designers using Sass to ship a Sass product. You have other options:
(a) You can convert the designer's CSS to Sass (designer CSS is going to be
suboptimal anyways)
(b) You can convert some of the designer's CSS to Sass (the parts you're going
to be "playing" with, like box and form styles) and leave the rest static.
(c) You can leave the designer's CSS intact as a static CSS file and then
extend and override it with Sass.
One of the more common bits of Haml/Sass FUD is that "designers won't use it",
which is true, but irrelevant.
(Having said all that: the last designer I worked with was excited to learn
Sass, and did a great job with it).
------
tghw
If you want to give SASS a try (specifically the SCSS dialect), we support it
at WebPutty.net. (Yes, I'm a dev on WebPutty and am totally biased, but I
actually do think the live preview makes it a good learning tool.)
------
bryne
I was on the fence until the bit about automatic spritesheeting via Compass.
This is awesome.
------
gbog
From the article: "This works on a Mac easily, because Ruby is already
installed on OS X out-of-the-box. If you are on Windows, you will first need
the Ruby Installer."
Where is Linux?
~~~
tghw
> Where is Linux?
For desktop use? In third place. Plus, most people on Linux know how to
install new software. Finally, the package managers included with many popular
distributions of Linux make finding and installing packages like Ruby so easy
that it's not even worth describing how to do.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Bash Pitfalls - monort
http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashPitfalls
======
monort
If your bash script is not trivial, and target machines have python, it's
probably better to use sh:
[https://amoffat.github.io/sh/](https://amoffat.github.io/sh/)
~~~
iberieve
First time I've seen this and it looks amazing. Poorly named perhaps, though
it is certainly a nice option to be aware of! Thank you for sharing.
One question - In this py-sh system are there error control options like what
bash provides? e.g.:
set -o errexit
set -o pipefail
set -o nounset
~~~
monort
These options are set by default - non zero exit code or unknown variable will
raise an exception. You can catch it if you don't want to exit.
------
freddref
Is there a script to check for these pitfalls? (And offer example solutions?)
Has anyone forked bash to remove or fix these pitfalls, while maintaining
maximum "bashness"?
edit: [http://www.shellcheck.net/](http://www.shellcheck.net/)
~~~
e40
_Has anyone forked bash to remove or fix these pitfalls, while maintaining
maximum "bashness"?_
I'm not sure how bash could be changed to prevent user error. Many are not due
to bad bash design.
------
asa400
Li Haoyi just gave a talk at Scala by the Bay entitled "Beyond Bash", which
details the shell scripting environment he's been working on that is hosted in
a reimplementation of the Scala REPL, called Ammonite.
Slides for the talk:
[http://tinyurl.com/beyondbash](http://tinyurl.com/beyondbash) Docs:
[http://lihaoyi.github.io/Ammonite/](http://lihaoyi.github.io/Ammonite/)
I wasn't at the talk, but I downloaded it and have been playing around with
it. It's really fun!
The path operations are all typed (ie, you can't combine relative and absolute
paths in stupid ways), you get all of Scala to operate on files and the
filesystem (if you know Scala, this is pretty huge), and it has a handy
pipelining syntax that is effectively an extension of the shell `|` operator
we all know and love:
[http://lihaoyi.github.io/Ammonite/#Extensions](http://lihaoyi.github.io/Ammonite/#Extensions)
There are other niceties built in as well, like syntax highlighting and pretty
printing, that gave me the impression that the author really cares about the
UX of the software. It's not all academic/pure, in fact it appears to be the
kind of pragmatic, practical thing that I wish Scala was known for. I highly
recommend giving it a shot, especially if you already know Scala. I definitely
will be giving it some time in the coming weeks.
------
vezzy-fnord
See also the Inferno shell: [http://debu.gs/entries/inferno-
part-1-shell](http://debu.gs/entries/inferno-part-1-shell)
I've been playing around with the werc framework, 9base, plan9port and other
Plan 9-derived tooling and have found rc shell to be rather pleasant compared
to Bourne and Korn dialects.
------
jordigh
And people think C++ is hard to do correctly...
~~~
pen2l
Sorry, what do you mean to imply here... that Bash is difficult?
~~~
kzhahou
Is it even up for debate, that bash is hard to get right?
~~~
pdkl95
Bash isn't particularly hard. Unfortunately, it carries a significant amount
of historical baggage that make things very confusing. Many examples and
existing bash scripts usew these older feature which can make learning bash
even more confusing.
A couple examples of what I mean are:
# old style command substitution (don't use this)
echo "`ls *.mp3 | wc -l` MP3 files in $PWD"
# new style
echo "$(ls *.mp3 | wc -l) MP3 files in $PWD"
# while it is used in some place, the use of $*
# to mean "all arguments" is probably always wrong
for i in $* ; do do_something $i ; done
# instead, you almost always want "$@"
# (and always use quotes on variable expansion)
for i in "$@" ; do do_something "${i}" ; done
A _lot_ of really nasty sometimes-incorrect behavior goes away when you use
the modern replacements.
Another big thing that confuses people at first with sh/bash style shell
script is that they treat it like a _regular programming language_. Instead,
realize that most of the magic happens as "expansions" of the command line.
Thinking about bash a something closer to a fancy macro language doing simple
string manipulates can help a lot.
Finally: RTFM. Seriously. Modern versions of bash have a very nice manual.
Cargo-culting pieces of existing scripts may solve an immediate problem, but
it won't teach you the real language nearly as well as simply reading bash(1)
(especially the "EXPANSIONS" section).
~~~
angersock
Is there a good online resource (other than man pages) for those of us who are
exceptionally lazy to learn modern Bash?
~~~
pen2l
greycat's writing are the best thing for bash, in my opinion. The submitted
article is his 'bash pitfalls'... his formal bash guide is here:
[http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide](http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide)
greycat is a guy who idles in #bash on freenode and has helped thousands of
people.
~~~
angersock
Thanks!
------
hyperpape
Referencing the other thread on shell scripting currently on the front page
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10068668](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10068668)),
some of these examples show ways in which bash is actually quite verbose:
# POSIX
for i in *.mp3; do
[ -e "$i" ] || continue
some_command "$i"
done
# HYPOTHETICAL SYNTAX 1
map some_command *.mp3
# HYPOTHETICAL SYNTAX 2
some_command *.mp3
It's hard to imagine how to create simple syntax for operations like that
while accomodating other syntactic requirements (strings without quotations,
pipelines, etc), but I dream about a shell language that lets me do things
like the above.
~~~
lisivka
map() {
local COMMAND="${1:?Argument is required: command to execute, e.g. "echo". Example: \"map echo *\".}"
shift 1
local I
for I in "$@"
do
[ -e "$I" ] || continue
$COMMAND "$I"
done
}
~~~
hyperpape
Neat! I'm curious: did you come up with this on the spot, or is this actually
something you use?
~~~
lisivka
I just typed it in window.
------
rando289
We've overwhelmed it. Instead:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20150811151807/http://mywiki.woo...](https://web.archive.org/web/20150811151807/http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashPitfalls)
------
joshbaptiste
Everything I know of bash I learned from Freenode irc #bash channel who have a
very active bot that always points to this wiki, so many scripts at work I see
the dreaded
for i in `ls`; do...
Which only works due to the fact that we hardly have any files with spaces,
newlines etc..
~~~
frou_dh
There should be a modern filesystem that's catered to nerd tastes and simply
prohibits whitespace in file names.
~~~
JoshTriplett
Alternatively, allow everything in filenames, including whitespace and '/',
but escape them on the filesystem using something like URL escaping (%20,
%2F). No reason the filesystem names have to match the user-friendly names
precisely, as long as a lossless bidirectional conversion exists.
~~~
frou_dh
Neat idea. If I understand correctly, it'd still be fair to say that those
characters wouldn't be allowed in file names since encoding/decoding the
friendly form would be opt-in work each and every userspace program couldn't
be relied upon doing?
~~~
mitchty
Yep, the vfs layer in most unixes won't let you use / or \0 in a filename. And
for good reasons.
------
proactivesvcs
A really helpful guide, particularly for someone just starting out on Linux
such as myself. Hopefully I will not get into bad habits to begin with :-)
Having looked at my scripts I seem to have been pretty cautious already
(Windows batch has already scarred me plenty), but I have shored up a few
minor areas.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Quick hack to put iOS5 Newsstand Icon in a folder - wesbos
http://wesbos.com/hide-newsstand-icon-iphone/
======
jasonrodriguez
Try running it once it is inside the folder. Fine with me because I don't use
it (yet), but others may not like the outcome.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
This is the proof that the 1% have been running the show for 800 years - known
http://qz.com/301150/this-is-the-proof-that-the-1-have-been-running-the-show-for-800-years/
======
userbmf
It amazes me how Canadians and Americans love the royal family, yet the whole
point of North America was you had access to land and could escape the
crushing serf-like structure found in the UK.
~~~
frtab
Those serf-like structures disappeared in the 15th century.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
SageDB: a learned database system - ketralnis
https://blog.acolyer.org/2019/01/16/sagedb-a-learned-database-system/
======
pjscott
Whenever learned database indexes come up, people get worried about worst-case
performance compared to the predictability of B-trees. So, to preemptively
clarify: the B-tree alternatives used in SageDB are able to give the same
logarithmic upper bounds on query time, but can often do much better in terms
of size and speed when there's exploitable structure in the data.
------
sctb
Another recent post about SageDB:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18836456](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18836456).
------
arbie
An exciting development. Are there equivalent research avenues into API
optimization?
------
rhizome
Trademark alert.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Get-shit-done - Easy way to stop distractions - leftnode
https://github.com/leftnode/get-shit-done
======
adnam
I once wrote a similar script which was configurable and it installed as a
service. It would periodically scan /etc/hosts to check I wasn't cheating.
$ sudo /etc/inid.d/procrastination-ctl start
OK.
$ sudo /etc/inid.d/procrastination-ctl stop
You need to wait 59 minutes before you can stop.
Managed to waste a whole day on that one.
~~~
tgandrews
> Managed to waste a whole day on that one
I love the irony.
~~~
adnam
I always wanted to rename the script to "/etc/init.d/procrastination" whereby
the command "stop" would start the service and vice-versa.
------
JacobAldridge
Nowhere near as broad-ranging, but I'll make the note for HN users not aware
of it - if HN is your sole (main?) distraction, you can use the noprocrast
feature on your user page. Change to Yes, add a max time you allow yourself to
visit HN and then the min time you want to be forced to be away.
As I say, nowhere near as broadly applicable or useful as the OP, but worth
noting especially if (like me) HN is your distraction of choice and you have
minimal technical skills.
~~~
lionhearted
After playing with noprocrast, I found very good settings for me are
maxvisit: 20
minaway: 1
That means, every 20 minutes HN kicks me off for one minute. I leave it like
that constantly - it means if I'm spending time on here nonstop for an hour or
two, I get a couple little reminders to ask myself if I really want to be on
here. If I do, it's not a big deal to get up and make myself a tea or whatever
until 1 minute passes, if not I close the tab and get to business, and it's
low enough that I don't cheat by logging in with another browser or Chrome
Incognito Mode.
------
bajsejohannes
I do this, although only by saying
sudo cp hosts.play /etc/hosts
or
sudo cp hosts.work /etc/hosts
It's simple, and surprisingly efficient.
~~~
ianl
The only problem with this method is that if you modify your hosts file, you
have to modify both.
~~~
pyre
Just create a Makefile or something that cats together hosts.common and
hosts.work or hosts.play.
all:
cat hosts.common hosts.work.in > hosts.work
cat hosts.common hosts.play.in > hosts.play
Make common changes to hosts.common and easily build your final hosts files.
play:
cat hosts.play | sudo tee /etc/hosts > /dev/null
work:
cat hosts.work | sudo tee /etc/hosts > /dev/null
------
ericmoritz
I used StayFocusd for a day or two and realized I was a lost cause when I
found myself opening its sqlite database in my Chrome profile to add time to
the clock.
~~~
aniket_ray
Unfortunately you can just right click and disable extensions on chrome. Since
the exit barrier is so low, I was always able to exit even when I shouldn't
have.
------
agj
Why such interest in this script? Besides being written in php, it's also a
fairly kludgey approach to managing /etc/hosts. Is it the vulgarities?
#!/bin/sh
[ $UID -eq 0 ] || { echo "You're not root, asshole."; exit 1; }
[ -f "/etc/hosts.$1" ] || { echo "/etc/hosts.$1 doesn't exist, asshole."; exit 1; }
cat /etc/hosts.{$1,tail} > /etc/hosts
...
sudo ~/bin/stopfuckingoff play
~~~
thyrsus
It was a sad day when Red Hat removed the insults from sudo.
------
thurn
For Mac users, SelfControl is a GUI approach to this idea:
<http://visitsteve.com/made/selfcontrol/>
~~~
guywithabike
One of the best features is that it runs on a timer and you can't cancel it
prematurely. Even if you restart.
~~~
rimantas
You can. It uses ipfw, and I think you can reset the rules. At least I managed
when I tried it, but this was some 3 years ago.
------
rbxbx
Sorry to be the guy decrying PHP, but the only arguments I've found in it's
favor are it's ubiquity and being sometimes "the right tool for the job" if
you're quickly hacking together a dynamic webpage.
Surely a simple cli app isn't the right job for this tool.
Now, all that said, it _does_ work, and blahblahblah.
~~~
yogsototh
Yep, beware I didn't even tested it:
#!/usr/bin/env zsh
(($#<1)) && {
print -- "usage: $0:t (play|work)"
exit 1
}>&2
blacklist=(
reddit.com
ycombinator.com
slashdot.com
)
hostfile=/etc/host
if [[ $1 = "play" ]]; then
if [[ ! -e $hostfile.orig ]]; then
cp $hostfile{,.orig}
else
print -- "You're already playin" >&2
exit 1
fi
cp $hostfile{.orig,}
for elem in $blacklist; do
print -- "127.0.0.1\t$elem" >> /etc/host
print -- "127.0.0.1\twww.$elem" >> /etc/host
done
fi
if [[ $1 = "work" ]]; then
cp $hostfile{.orig,}
\rm $hostfile.orig
fi
/etc/init.d/networking restart
------
robinduckett
Thank god! Let me just waste some time getting this installed and then I'll
waste some more time testing it, then I'll waste some more time posting this
comment to hacker news.
------
pfarrell
<https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/leechblock/>
does windows of access, allows for x minutes, has grouping. Course, it's FF
only where hosts file gets your whole connection.
~~~
rodh257
StayFocusd for Chrome Users -
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/laankejkbhbdhmipfm...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/laankejkbhbdhmipfmgcngdelahlfoji)
latest version has a neat feature which tracks links from blocked pages. Ie if
I give myself 15 mins of HN a day, but end up wasting 2 hours because I only
spend 10 secs on HN opening up tabs to read, it now tracks that. Any links you
click from HN will count towards your time limit.
------
skid
Isn't the point of this approach to be _difficult_ to switch back and forth?
Next thing you know there will be a chrome extension that swaps your hosts
file and you will be separated from procrastination by a single click.
~~~
georgieporgie
I found it useful to force myself to manually comment/uncomment lines in my
hosts file. It gives a critical few moments for a bit of humiliation to set
in, as you realize how desperate you are for diversion. On the other end, it
gives a moment to mentally pat yourself on the back for eliminating the
distractions.
------
chriswoodford
i'm actually surprised at the amount of time people spend procrastinating on
something to help them stop procrastinating...
or even more surprising might be the amount of time i've spent procrastinating
by reading about people who've procrastinated by making tools to aid their
procrastination...
...I'm going to get back to work :)
------
keeganpoppen
Instead of doing work, I got stuck modding this to get better behavior for
Mac. First I tried to figure out what the $restartNetworkingCommand mac
equivalent was (dscacheutil -flushcache for those who are curious). This works
pretty well for non-Chrome browsers (i.e. browsers that don't have absurd
caching behavior). Then, given that Chrome (which maintains its own DNS
cache-- a decidedly not absurd caching behavior, I acknowledge) is my browser
of choice, I also set out to fix it so I didn't need to restart Chrome. This
endeavor I have accomplished using one of my favorite jank-tastic tactics:
running applescript from the command line.
So here is my (Mac OS X 10.6+?) change:
$restartNetworkingCommand = 'dscacheutil -flushcache; osascript <<EOF tell
application "Google Chrome" make new tab at end of tabs of window 1 with
properties {URL:"chrome://net-internals/#dns"} activate delay .5 set URL of
active tab of window 1 to
"javascript:document.getElementById(\'clearHostResolverCache\').click()" end
tell delay .5 tell application "System Events" to keystroke "w" using {command
down} EOF';
This, of course is made even more jank-tastic by manually sending command-w to
close the window-- googling the proper command was more difficult than just
doing it live :).
So yeah-- clearly I needed this script before reading this post, but if I had
it probably would have done some terrible things to the space-time
continuum... I guess I'll just amortize the one-time cost by actually using
the script. Starting now.
~~~
keeganpoppen
yikes-- that formatting got butchered... anyone know if there's a better way
to put code in comments?
------
datasink
<https://github.com/killsaw/Timeguard>
A similar script, but with an 'addsite whatever.com' command.
------
neurolysis
For anyone interested, I rewrote this entirely in bash.
<https://github.com/cdown/ncrast/blob/master/ncrast>
<http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=48731>
------
ivankirigin
I do this, and my scripts have actually gotten kind of complicated.
To start, it's a command line utility. I need to answer the question "Do you
want to waste your time?" with "yes" to turn off the filters.
Then I didn't bother running in a way that the script had permissions to edit
/etc/hosts so I need to enter my system password every time I want to make a
change.
I also automatically turn the filters on every hour.
I also log both the number of times I turn the filters off and whether the
filter is on at about 1pm.
I'm running a test right now to not turn on the filters automatically every
hour and there is already a noticeable decrease in productivity in my
rescuetime.
I'm about to update the logger to use the google charts API to save a historic
graph of performance to a directory that is used as my desktop background.
------
radu_floricica
Use to use cumbersome hacks with block lists in routers, but I discovered the
SiteBlock extension for Chrome: make a list of "dangerous" sites, and give
yourself a fixed time per day to visit them. In my casa, one hour works fine
(although I'd probably prefer 2 :p)
Address:
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/pfglnpdpgmecffbejl...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/pfglnpdpgmecffbejlfgpnebopinlclj)
Website Blocker seems to be similar, but without a time limit:
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hclgegipaehbigmbhd...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hclgegipaehbigmbhdpfapmjadbaldib)
------
jcromartie
I've ported this to a Bash script which is simpler and more extensible. It
uses env variables to facilitate customization.
<https://gist.github.com/955437>
------
dananjaya86
A crude implementation of Get-shit-done in Python.
<https://github.com/dananjayavr/get-shit-done>
------
rebelidealist
For mac users, the Self Control app works really well.
<http://visitsteve.com/made/selfcontrol/>
------
yeag123
A Chrome extension that I use pretty regularly for this sort of thing is Stay
Focused: <http://goo.gl/gHWFQ>
------
mrtron
I permanently blocked all from my laptop and only surf from my iPad now. Works
great for me.
~~~
john2x
Curious, how do you permanently block the sites?
~~~
georgieporgie
I think it just means that the sites stay redirected in his hosts file.
~~~
mrtron
Correct. If I ever catch myself surfing to a website from my laptop, it gets
bookmarked for my iPad and blocked in my /etc/hosts.
------
jarin
I took a really simple approach: removing HN, Facebook, Clicky, and Google
Reader from my bookmarks bar. Having to type them in manually instead of
compulsively clicking is enough to limit me to an hour or two of dicking
around per day.
~~~
FaceKicker
I don't even use bookmarks because it would take longer to click a bookmark
than typing "n" for HN (or "r" for reddit or "f" for facebook) and letting
Chrome auto-complete and pressing enter, so this wouldn't help me that much.
~~~
jarin
Oh, I guess I would call myself a "burst typer", so I usually find it faster
to just type all or most of the domain than to type one letter and check to
see if Chrome got the right thing. But of course that requires a little bit of
effort, so it's still just enough to make me consider whether to go there or
get some work done.
I just subconsciously don't trust one-letter autocomplete I guess.
~~~
kami8845
in firefox i have 'red' <down> <enter> already ingrained for reddit, same with
'new' for HN ... it's automatic and you can't tell me typing it all out is
faster :P
------
patrickk
Thankfully this was the first link on the HN homepage. Just reading the
articles and comments made me feel sufficiently guilty to stop reading any
more :)
------
bearwithclaws
Throw in some ASCII art to make things sweeter:
figlet -f univers time to work! | boxes
figlet -f starwars game time! | boxes -d dog
------
swah
How does this compare to Programming, Motherfucker?
------
chriswoodford
this comment thread is turning into quite the social experiment. is ADD a
prerequisite for being a good programmer/hacker/etc...?
------
huherto
Just a quick hack. I added timer-applet in ubuntu. I work on 30 mins intervals
and then rest 5 mins. It is pretty handy.
~~~
MauriceFlanagan
Similar to this, I use eternity time tracker on my iphone to work in 30 minute
intervals. During the interval, no email, news sites etc. It has worked really
well for me.
------
rbarooah
Safari users might like <http://www.mindfulbrowsing.com>
------
keefe
treating the symptoms rather than the disease is only a good choice for short
term or for incurable diseases
~~~
eswat
You may be right. But repeating an action forms a habit, or in this case
learning to not repeatedly open up HN or Reddit can become a long-term habit
for anyone with the right mindset.
~~~
keefe
my main point being that if they stop with HN/Reddit something else will fill
that gap. Not working is the issue.
------
lani
oh no !! i checked the list of sites being blocked, now have more of them to
check up on ....
------
djbriane
Does it block Outlook because thats the real reason I can't get anything done
these days.
------
JoeAltmaier
Does it have a timer to keep me from modifying it every 2 minutes?
~~~
calloc
Use FreeBSD, set the kernlevel to something above the minimum, and add the
flags to the file so it can't be changed, then until you reboot you won't be
able to modify the hosts file =)
------
sriram_sun
I'd call it git-er-done
------
sbkirk
So distracted by this.
------
rch
I might as well plug tasktop - it's great.
------
ajarmoniuk
Block reddit in /etc/hosts.
Memorize reddit's IP.
------
m0wfo
This will obviously leave me continuously trying to access hacker news while
preventing me from doing so. My continued attempts will block all other
operations [i.e. work] hence creating a race condition.
Far preferable is the event-driven technique whereby I make a cursory attempt
at doing some real stuff until the HN bot tweets something of fleeting
interest, at which point I defer said real stuff to a background thread to be
completed in an asynchronous fashion.
------
idonthack
Is this really worthy of HN frontpage? Seriously, who among us couldn't write
something similar in 5 minutes or less?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Taiwan Financial Institute SSL Status - imrehg
https://gergely.imreh.net/twbankssl/
======
humanarity
There are truly a lot of banks in Taiwan.
~~~
imrehg
The funny thing is that (as far as I know) there can never be any more than
this. Taiwan stopped giving out banking licenses, so you can only open up a
branch here if you buy someone else's. That happened, ABN Amro exited and ANZ
bought their stuff a few years back. Other banks that couldn't get in, got
some of their stuff locked up or expelled, because they came over from e.g. HK
and were doing banking services for some people.
Taiwanese financial regulations are a big hot mess, and if anything it seems
to be regressing. E.g. used to be you can connect your account at any bank to
Paypal (ebay / online selling anyone?), now there's only one single bank that
you can use, and they call it "innovation" and "competitive industry" (exact
words the clerk told me, couldn't help laughing into his face).
There's a lot to improve and nobody who can put the pressure on them to
actually do that...
~~~
humanarity
That is funny about the licenses. I guess 20+ banks was finally enough. The
funniest name to me is Yuanta -- because it looks like "big money." I've heard
it said the reason for relatively more banks is because ethnically Chinese
people save more than Westerners, who prefer to spend more, thus requiring
fewer banks. You may be interested to know that HK stopped giving out street
vendor (aka dai pai dong) licenses, with the only way to get one being
marriage to a licensee, leading to dwindling numbers of street vendors --
another thing Taiwan doesn't seem to be short on!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
New haskell-lang.org - Rabble_Of_One
https://haskell-lang.org/announcements
======
cm3
FWIW, I've tried to use stack twice and came back to cabal-install. There's
also that I enable split-objects in ~/.cabal/config (not available in Stack)
and often use GHC on platforms where there's no Stack-provided GHC available.
That said, avoiding the compatibility problem of dependencies via curated
package sets (Stackage) is a nice idea. However, Duncan's nix-local-build work
makes the problems void from what I can tell, and Ed's Backpack work will
improve the situation even more. Though, curated sets are still a nice idea
regardless.
I'm not a Haskell greybeard, just a light user, but despite the improvements
via FPComplete's output, at least some of it feels NIH and unnecessarily
polarizes the community. For instance, reusing Shake in Cabal(-install) and
getting nix-local-build and Backpack production ready look like improvements
that will be beneficial for a longer time, rather than splitting the community
with a different build/package structure (stack).
I mean, dividing the already small Haskell community doesn't make sense to me.
If Gershom doesn't play fair with the management of www.haskell.org, this
should be raised officially and fixed, because haskell.org is not a one man
project and there's a team around it.
~~~
ezyang
Credit where credit is due: nix-local-build is mostly Duncan Coutts work (I
just wrote the announcement, and contributed some patches!)
~~~
massysett
Links to nix-local-build please? Is this the same as cabal new-build?
~~~
cm3
It's the same: [http://blog.ezyang.com/2016/05/announcing-cabal-new-build-
ni...](http://blog.ezyang.com/2016/05/announcing-cabal-new-build-nix-style-
local-builds/)
------
Sir_Cmpwn
Wow, this is awful. It seems like there are a lot of immature people on both
sides of this nonsense. If any of them are reading this: you're making your
ecosystem look bad. Settle your differences privately and present a unified
front.
~~~
tome
Could you explain more about what's awful and immature? Do you mean the linked
website, or the discussion here, or somewhere else?
~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
The difference between haskell.org and haskell-lang.org, the new subreddit and
IRC channel, the cat fights between the designer and haskell.org, and so on.
~~~
Buttons840
The new subreddit is for discussing the new site, not for general Haskell
discussion. The top moderator of /r/haskell_lang confirms this:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell_lang/comments/4rv4uu/is_thi...](https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell_lang/comments/4rv4uu/is_this_the_official_haskell_subreddit_or_is/d54cpja)
~~~
gmfawcett
It's a bit broader than discussing the site, if you accept what they have
announced. The subreddit (and twitter feed, etc.) will be "open to all to
discuss the contents of the website, and more broadly how to make Haskell as
welcoming a language, community, and ecosystem as can be managed." That second
part implies a wider mandate.
------
the_duke
Why on earth would they launch a new subreddit when there is
[https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/](https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/) with
20k+ subscribers?
~~~
Rabble_Of_One
Because /r/haskell has become a place of constant flamewars. We need a clean
break. A new subreddit provides a fresh start allowing to mold a new community
based on better principles. Everyone who wants to be part of the new community
is invited to join the new Haskell movement. Troublemaker will hopefully stay
behind
~~~
jerf
"Because /r/haskell has become a place of constant flamewars."
Are we talking about different /r/haskells here? I'm not seeing it.
"Disagreement" is not "a flamewar". Wouldn't even call it "constant
disagreement", either.
Do you have an example "flamewar" you can show us?
~~~
snaky
> "Disagreement" is not "a flamewar"
It's worse these days. "We need a safe zones!"
------
matt_wulfeck
I understand you desire a clean break, but personally I find it rather user-
hostile to fragment all of your resources so easily.
------
thu
I still don't understand why new subreddit or IRC channel are necessary. They
could be used strictly to talk about the new site, but it seems they will be
targeted to all things Haskell, exactly like the existing places.
Otherwise I'm all for some form of competition and moving things forwards, so
props for the initiative.
~~~
lallysingh
Seriously. And frankly, haskell-lang.org looks a lot like haskell.org
~~~
thu
This is the same design. And the person who donated it to haskell.org asked
them to stop using it[0]
[0] [https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-
community/2016-Ap...](https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-
community/2016-April/000100.html)
------
hguant
I guess I don't understand the need for a new IRC channel. #haskell is one of
the best out there, both as a resource and a community. Why split it up?
~~~
zxexz
I got the impression on #haskell-lang that the current occupants think the
channel is about the new website. But with a channel name like that it
definitely sounds like a channel devoted to Haskell discussion...and thus may
become one.
We already have #haskell, #haskell-overflow (sometimes even #haskell-overflow-
overflow :P) and #haskell-beginners. I don't think there's a need for further
IRC channels for language discussion. The current Haskell IRC community is
beautiful and the least toxic and splintered of any I've ever been to.
------
fumplethumb
Good to see that the Haskell community is looking for ways to be more
accessible to newcomers. I'm not very familiar with Haskell, but I have long
heard that the Haskell community wasn't interested in popularity. Has there
been a shift in their thinking?
~~~
MustardTiger
No. This is not the community's doing. It is FP Complete, a corporation
attempting to subvert the haskell community for their financial benefit. The
purpose of this site is to make newcomers think the FP complete tools are the
tools to use, rather than the official ones.
~~~
axman6
You do understand that comments like this are actually building their case for
problems in the community right? I've read several of your comments on this
page, and you're the only one making accusations without any evidence, and
turning this into a flame war. If you don't like stack, don't use it.
I'm not a big fan of this whole community splitting action, but to think that
it's been undertaken as a coup d'état to take control of the community by a
commercial entity is verging on tinfoil hat territory.
And you know what? Stack is a fantastic tool for newcomers, we use it
exclusively for our commercial Haskell projects and it's changed our
development practices for the better by a long way. Something that built today
I can be sure will build in a year without changes - cabal has never been able
to guarantee that. I'm really glad someone has put in the huge amount of
effort to make a better Haskell build tool, it's been far too long coming.
~~~
MustardTiger
No, this whole "any negative response to our hostile actions justifies our
hostile actions" nonsense doesn't fly. It is begging the question. And you are
spreading FUD again. Cabal absolutely is able to guarantee that, and always
has. All you do is exactly what stack is doing, pin yourself to a specific
version of your dependencies.
~~~
axman6
I'm not going to argue with you, I don't think you're contributing anything to
the conversation, and your tone definitely isn't, that's all
------
setra
Quote: Why a new site?
Since it is a common question in such statements, let us ask it directly here:
why create a new website instead of working to incrementally update
haskell.org? In the opinion of the team behind haskell-lang.org, the tooling
story and general ecosystem infrastructure for the Haskell community has
accumulated enough baggage that a clean break is the best use of everybody's
time. We intend to streamline the on-boarding process for new developers, move
away from infrastructure that is showing its age, and embrace newer approaches
to facilitate open collaboration. Similar decisions have already been made in
creating the Stack build tool and Stackage.
~~~
lallysingh
On-board them to Haskell or FP Complete?
~~~
MustardTiger
Exactly. At this point I really wish the FP complete people would just fork
GHC and get it over with. They've been such a huge problem in the haskell
community, just divide it up already.
~~~
tinco
A huge problem? Could you give an example of the sort of problem they are
causing?
Maybe I am out of the loop but from my perspective as a hobby coder FP
complete (particularly snoyberg) has done nothing but put out extremely useful
code. Most notable of which stack which is (going to be) the defacto standard
for deploying Haskell applications.
~~~
lallysingh
Stack is exactly that, and it's controlled by a private entity whose business
model works better the more dependence their users have on their tools.
FP complete isn't misbehaving, but they're putting themselves in a position to
do a lot of damage if they did.
~~~
codygman
> Stack is exactly that, and it's controlled by a private entity
It's open source and the bug reports and feature requests merged in seem to
indicate the aims have been making building Haskell projects easier.
I don't see indications of vetos in favor of FP complete that hurt the Haskell
community.
~~~
lallysingh
Stack isn't just a tool, it's also infrastructure to support that tool.
I use it constantly, and like it, but let's not pretend there isn't a shift in
power and influence as a result.
------
ezyang
Well, at least one motivation for launching a new site is so that
[https://haskell-lang.org/get-started](https://haskell-lang.org/get-started)
is a much more streamlined way to onboard users than the existing
[https://www.haskell.org/downloads](https://www.haskell.org/downloads)
Unfortunately, the presentation of how to start new users is somewhat
political because there is disagreement if new users should just get stated on
Stack, or see all of the options.
~~~
jerf
A new website I understand. If one wants a radically different model of
community participation than what the standard haskell site presents, by far
the best and easiest thing for everybody is to just do it, and see what
happens. The original can conservatively hang around, the new one can be
trialed, if the new one is successful perhaps the original adapts or is even
replaced. (IIRC, the maintainers of haskell.org have stated they don't have a
lot of time to advance the backend and make significant changes.) That all
makes sense to me.
It's the rest of the fragmentation that doesn't.
~~~
jerf
Reply because I can't edit now: It seems the new subreddit was set up for
discussing the new site only, so it's not a fragmentation:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell_lang/comments/4rv4uu/is_thi...](https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell_lang/comments/4rv4uu/is_this_the_official_haskell_subreddit_or_is/d54cpja)
No one on /r/haskell seems to know who Rabble_of_One is who has been posting
here. I believe the assertions that none of the involved parties would
hesitate to speak out under their established names, because they have not
hesitated in the past to take strong positions.
------
ihuman
Why are there two Haskell websites (haskell-lang.org and haskell.org)?
~~~
massysett
You think that's confusing? The old home page led straight to a wiki, which is
still up:
[https://wiki.haskell.org/Haskell](https://wiki.haskell.org/Haskell)
~~~
ihuman
Which one is the official website and endorsed by the writers of the
language/compiler?
~~~
thu
I wouldn't say the "writers" are endorsing the old website, or not endorsing
the new one, but whois is pretty telling:
$ whois haskell-lang.org | grep ' Name:'
Domain Name: HASKELL-LANG.ORG
Registrant Name: FP Complete Corporation
Admin Name: FP Complete Corporation
Tech Name: FP Complete Corporation
$ whois haskell.org | grep ' Name:'
Domain Name: HASKELL.ORG
Registrant Name: YaleUniversityComputer Science Department Haskell Group
Admin Name: Galois Hostmaster
Tech Name: Galois Hostmaster
------
riscy
This seems like a community leadership coup to get people to use a different
package management system, Stack.
------
wyager
Why? How does this improve over the old one? I'm certainly not going to change
IRC channels or subreddits.
------
thu
The link to the CHG (which I confused with IHG) is using HTTPS but it seems
the redirect to GitHub works only in HTTP.
I'm not sure what stating CHG sponsors the new site means.
~~~
sclv
I have no idea either. The new site was never discussed once on the list (
[https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/commercialhaskell](https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/commercialhaskell)
) nor does there seem to be anything in the CHG charter that would let it as a
group do anything at all, such as making a collective decision to sponsor a
site.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Anonymous strikes back: takes down DoJ, Universal, RIAA and MPAA sites - 11031a
http://www.geek.com/articles/news/anonymous-strikes-back-by-taking-down-doj-universal-records-20120119/
======
abrahamsen
This ... doesn't help. Especially right now.
If I worked PR for SOPA/PIPA, I'd try to associate the anti-SOPA/PIPA movement
with Anonymous. Let's see: Megaupload is a foreign website being taken down.
SOPA is about taking foreign websites down. Anonymous responds with vandalism
as a result of Megaupload being taken down. Therefore, anyone opposing SOPA
are criminal vandals. Yep, that logic should be strong enough for the American
public.
~~~
toyg
But it also gives you the excuse to say "see? we don't need SOPA, overseas
websites are already being closed down".
It doesn't matter what "the American public" thinks, as long as senators'
phones keep ringing an people keep organizing. The copyright mafia will never
be able to take the streets, TeaParty-style, so whether they brainwash a moron
here and there doesn't really matter.
EDIT: btw, I do find the timing of this operation quite "funny". Conspiracy
theorists will go wild.
------
trout
This would be more interesting if it was something that affected those groups.
Those groups live in different media, not online. If their cable streams were
hacked, billboards, advertising, commercials were compromised, it would truly
taking the 'fight' to their door.
I'm still waiting for a well-formed movement to impact the RIAA/MPAA
financials via boycott. It seems everyone that is anti-SOPA is also against
their business practices, and if the 4 million people that signed the google
petition could even partially support it that seems much more meaningful.
~~~
sc00ter
Are not all the people who choose to download content without payment already
carrying out a form of deafacto boycott?
~~~
mokus
In a sense, yes, but they're also proving that the products they are
"boycotting" are so important to them that they cannot do without them, even
to make a point that supposedly is very important to them. It doesn't tell the
MPAA "you need to provide a more valuable product", it tells them exactly the
opposite - their product is so important to them that they can't live without
it.
It tells them that if they can manage to game the political system to push the
risk of prosecution and/or cost of conviction high enough, then many of those
people will pay. In other words, it motivates them to do exactly what they are
doing.
On the other hand, if very large group were to simply stop consuming they
would be in a much stronger bargaining position. I don't see that happening
though. I just don't believe enough 1st world humans have it in them to pull
off something like that.
~~~
argv_empty
_> Are not all the people who choose to download content without payment
already carrying out a form of deafacto boycott?_
_but they're also proving that the products they are "boycotting" are so
important to them that they cannot do without them_
That seems like a rather strong conclusion to draw from seeing someone willing
to pay no money and assume a negligible risk in order to acquire the product.
------
tlb
Some of Anonymous's early protests were impressive. But this is just cowardly
vandalism. The DoJ is not thinking, "Whoa, we better not arrest any more
copyright infringers so our web site is safe."
~~~
TeMPOraL
'If only tool you have is a DDoS...'
It's time for Anonymous to do something more creative. They are capable of it.
DDoSing people doesn't work anymore.
------
im3w1l
I predict that Anonymous will face the same emotional reaction as al'Qaida.
"We will never bend to terrorists."
And I support this sentiment. Anonymous is retarded, and HN is retarded for
not coming out strongly against them.
~~~
drewblaisdell
> Anonymous is retarded, and HN is retarded for not coming out strongly
> against them.
This is the kind of eloquent criticism that I read the HN comments for.
~~~
atomicdog
My dad could beat up Anonymous' dad.
------
libraryatnight
My knee jerk reaction here is to fist pump and go "yea!" I do wonder though if
this accomplishes much. I don't think these sites are really that integral to
anyone's day, and unless they can somehow keep them down it's a short lived
thing.
~~~
VBprogrammer
My first reaction was a hearty chuckle. I know vigilantly justice is wrong but
in this case I'll let that slide. None of these targets actually lost much
given that they are mostly just for information sites.
~~~
srl
Just so you know: it's "vigilante", pronounced "vigilantay". There's a secret
accent over that last 'e'.
~~~
coderdude
Actually, it's pronounced "vij-uh-lan-tee." No accent.
~~~
LearnYouALisp
Actually, it's "vigilante" with a silent "e" as in "dilettante".
-Pronunciation troll
------
bbit
Will thank you Anonymous! you and occutards are responsible for SOPA, PIPA and
NDAA without you we couldn't have had all this fun thank you!!! _middle
fingers extends_
~~~
scarmig
What do "occutards" have to do with this?
And do you really think that the media industry wouldn't have pushed for SOPA
and PIPA if not for them?
Indeed, they were pushing for laws like PIPA and SOPA long before Anonymous
and Occupy even existed.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How Much Do Average Apps Make On Each Platform? - YeahKIA
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tristanlouis/2013/08/10/how-much-do-average-apps-make/?partner=yahootix
======
Zaheer
I have a very popular app for iOS and Android. Both have the same
functionality. These figures (5x more revenue on iOS) is pretty consistent
with what I see. For many apps moving forward I am actually not creating
Android versions as it is simply not worth the effort.
~~~
chii
can you say which platform you released first on? or did you make it at the
same time?
I'm quite surprised at that big of a revenue difference
~~~
Zaheer
I released on Android first.
------
Tichy
It seems very misleading to me to just calculate average revenue by "money
paid/downloads". At least a while ago a popular model on Android was to
publish the app free and make money with advertising. So the average payout
per app is probably much higher.
Although I also suspect it follows a power law, so a few apps make lots of
money and most apps make little to no money (on all platforms).
~~~
megablast
Oh sure, this is called working with the data you have.
------
twotwotwo
You _really_ want a survey of some folks who have released similar apps on
multiple platforms, and to cover the development-cost and revenue sides,
including in-app purchase and any ad revenue, if that's a substantial source
for anyone.
Just comparing aggregates, it's hard to tell what differences are thanks to
the platform and what's simply because "the average app" on Android is
different from "the average app" on iOS (because of review, barriers to entry,
etc.). And there's nothing about costs.
Much as I like Android, I bet iOS tends to be the better deal for paid-app
developers right now. You have fewer devices to target and no equivalent of
Android's Gingerbread situation. ("The Gingerbread Situation" is also a new
punk band I'm forming, BTW.) And Apple customers seem to skew a little
spendier, though maybe that's changing.
~~~
sirkneeland
I think the average Apple user will continue to skew spendier, but the sheer
number of Androids will mean that there is a portion of Android users who will
spend as an iOS user would. And when the overall number of Androids is high
enough, it could be so that even is 25% of Android customers were valuable
against 75% of Apple's customers, Android being 5x the size means there are
just as many (or more) "valuable" Android users than iPhone users.
~~~
miahi
I'm not sure about that. I spent >$1500 on Android phones, but less than $10
on apps. There are a lot of free/ad app equivalents for the paid apps - I did
not need to buy anything. The only paid app I am regularly using is JuiceSSH
for the port forwarding feature.
------
sirkneeland
I can't speak to the iOS and Android numbers, but they are significantly off
on the Windows Phone numbers.
MSFT just announced their WP downloads stand at 2 billion (a significant delta
from the 0.65 billion estimated here) As for units sold, Nokia alone has sold
20 million Windows Phones or so, and there is another 20% of non-Nokia WP
phones on top of that.
~~~
diminish
Nokia forms the majority of WP sales and boosters are the cheaper models like
520/21\. A good quarter of the sales are pre-WP8 models.
Finally, Nokia sales in North America and US, is lagging behind other
continents. That's maybe from an app sales perspective Nokia doesnot make a
lot of bang!.
US is mainly an AppleLand, and app store app sales get huge boost from having
a big portion of iPhone/iPad subscribers here.
~~~
warrenmiller
Android is now more popular than iOS in the US, see "Smartphone Platform
Market Share"
[http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2013/6/comSc...](http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2013/6/comScore_Reports_May_2013_U.S._Smartphone_Subscriber_Market_Share)
------
diminish
Simply averaging does not mean a lot. Does anyone have any stats which take
into account the fact that 5% top apps get a lot more reveneues than the
bottom 80%?
~~~
guyrt
Agreed. A comparison of medians would be more interesting.
------
z92
Median value would have made sense here, not mean value.
~~~
Ihmahr
Agree.
This article is just ridiculous. FunFact: half of the revenue from the app
stores go to the top 25 developers.
[http://www.canalys.com/newsroom/top-25-us-developers-
account...](http://www.canalys.com/newsroom/top-25-us-developers-account-half-
app-revenue)
~~~
dylangs1030
A similar ratio to most things in economics.
------
artursapek
This would be useful if the distribution of downloads/app were a bell curve
(meaning being "average" was actually common). I doubt it is.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Schools Beat Earlier Plagues With Outdoor Classes - sylvainkalache
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-schools-reopening-outdoors.html
======
abalashov
That's a troubling thought down here in eastern Georgia, where it has been in
the high 90F (35-37C) range for the past few weeks, with heat index north of
100F (38-40C), and no shortage of humidity. And that's not even remotely as
bad as it gets closer to the Gulf coast.
And it stays pretty unbearable until late October or so.
Yes, I know the article wasn't insinuating that the entire country, regardless
of climactic region, should hold outdoor classes. But enough of the US sits
below "unbearable" latitudes enough of the year that I don't think this
suggestion has much applicability beyond what is explicitly considered "the
north". Besides, I've been to New York City in August and September before;
depending on the day, the heat, and especially the humidity, can give the
South a run for its money.
~~~
SamReidHughes
They had schools before air conditioning. All we had when I was a kid were big
oscillating fans on the wall, and that was the 1990’s. I think Georgia will
have it easy, because winter will be the real impediment.
~~~
Loughla
>They had schools before air conditioning
And they didn't have school on hot days. Source: My school had no air
conditioning outside of the nurse's office until I was in high school. If the
temperature was above 89, school was cancelled for the day.
~~~
astura
What? None of my primary or secondary schools ever had a/c and I always went
to school no matter the temperature, sometimes when it was over 90°. It was
uncomfortable but it's not like I knew any different.
~~~
Loughla
We also didn't start school until after Labor Day, instead of the middle of
August.
~~~
astura
I didn't start school until September.
------
rossdavidh
Speaking as someone who: 1) lives in a Sun Belt state (Texas) 2) went to grade
school in an un-airconditioned building
Yes, it could be done, and should be considered. However, school years used to
start at Labor Day, for this reason, and there were a lot of serious metal-
bladed fans to make it bearable. Even outside, you would need shade (perhaps
canopies?) and fans.
It was also a lower population density than modern urban schools. All that
body heat makes a difference.
However, definitely worth considering, and in many non-urban areas I believe
it could work.
~~~
Frost1x
>Even outside, you would need shade (perhaps canopies?) and fans.
I imagine fans may be problematic due to the way COVID19 primarily spreads.
You might be able to design your way out of it with clever fan and student
placement but without that, you might create highways for the virus to spread
from one student to the next.
~~~
AstralStorm
Well, a ceiling fan producing laminar flow is very likely to limit the spread.
Side fans and windows, unlikely. The have been a few good studies of airflow
dynamics.
Ultimately the best cheapest defense building wise would be airflow over 12
CFM in a top to bottom way. This is essentially an air curtain strength.
That's rather expensive and takes a lot of big fans or very strong HVAC system
with many air outlets.
Being outside only works as long as you can spread people out heavily enough.
It's better than unventilated buildings, but the benefit is overshadowed by
density or distance.
(See: Florida beach policy and cases after the delay.)
~~~
rossdavidh
Having worked in semiconductor fabs with laminar flow, I can say that it dries
your eyes out if you're not wearing goggles.
------
imgabe
When I was a senior in high school I made a point of asking our English
teacher every day if we could go outside. Rain, shine, snow, whatever. It
became a running joke. Finally, towards the end of the year, on a lovely
Spring day, she agreed we could go outside.
But there was a catch: we had a pop quiz. 20% of the grade was some question
about a book we read. The other 80% was to write a short essay: Explain the
educational benefits of going outside.
------
simonjgreen
This is precisely what my children's school is doing right now, and
consequently they've had much greater adoption from parents of sending their
children back to school. 75% vs the county average of 33%.
------
dpeck
large pavilions with picnic tables, lighting, and fans works well and we
should be building them all over our communities.
They're cheap to build, keep everyone dry, shaded, and reasonably cool. It's
obviously not as good as air conditioning, but I've worked under them when on
a camp staff in central Georgia during some extremely hot summers in the '90s
(and the 90s/100s F) and it is tolerable for most people.
Brief research tells me the construction cost is generally under $25k which is
a blip in most education budgets. As a bonus we have more outdoor community
space when we manage to get past this.
~~~
dpeck
added and out of the edit time:
Even if these were only around existing school property and different classes
used just morning or evening the kids could still get some instruction, the
parents could have a brief break, and get food (and God forbid some other help
for the kids at risk) for the children who need it. We'd be in a much better
place than we are now thinking that young elementary kids can do virtual
learning.
This would go a long way with getting us through most/all autumn in much of
the US.
------
pengaru
Wouldn't earlier plagues been in times of ubiquitous stay at home mothers as
well? Surely a good chunk of kids just got home schooled.
~~~
sandworm101
>>Surely a good chunk of kids just got home schooled.
This was before widespread laundry machines and dishwashers. Those "stay at
home mothers" worked. School was, and still is, in part a babysitting service.
If the kids were to stay at home they would have been helping mom, not asking
her for reading lessons.
This was also a time of increasing literacy and education overall. Illiteracy
was not uncommon. There is a good chance that many parents were simply not as
well educated as their school-age children. Homeschooling is all well and
good, unless mom cannot read.
~~~
sukilot
Then how did moms get by when kids were in school not helping?
I'm sure some parents or school studenta were illiterate, but not the
majority.
And families were larger, so they'd have multiple children to teach each
other.
~~~
ivanbakel
>Then how did moms get by when kids were in school not helping?
They got by better _because_ children were in school. If you don't have to
keep an eye on your kids, you can commit 100% to all the housework and get it
done that much sooner.
They were productive with or without the children around. The point is that
there was no productivity to spare for mother and child to do any
teaching/learning.
------
bpyne
Some good ideas exist in this article. I could see this strategy implemented
in my district as one of several starting in the Fall. But it's not going to
be easy.
I'm in New England. The sheer number of students and the percentage of them
who have inadequate Winter clothing and food would make the strategy
impossible to implement as a one size fits all approach.
A quick search shows that my school district has 10,479 students. The number
of students on free or reduced price lunch is a good indicator of access to
adequate Winter clothing as well. We have 44% of the students on free or
reduced price lunch. To implement a strategy of windows open or outdoor
classrooms, we would have to account for 4,610 students' Winter clothing needs
for temperatures ranging from 0F-55F.
Some communities have much higher percentages of students on free and reduced
price lunch. A quick look at a neighbor city 15 minutes' drive to the north
shows 95% on free or reduced price lunch.
Districts less affected by poverty could probably implement an outdoor or
windows open strategy. But a mountain of logistics exist in trying to
implement in communities like mine. Unfortunately, in our county, communities
like mine are the norm.
------
bravoetch
Or online. Cheaper and less frostbite for kids in places with extreme winter
conditions.
~~~
klyrs
I have a rambunctious 4yo entering kindergarten this year. He needs direct
attention of a present human, not a screen to watch.
~~~
tomjen3
I am sure a Border Collie could deal with him no issue and I don't think dogs
can get Covid-19.
~~~
deckiedan
Many of us live in rental accomodation that have no-pets rules.
~~~
mmm_grayons
Good point, but many people are making changes due to a radically different
lifestyle. Moving to new places to find work, moving out of cities for more
space and lower rent/cheaper house. It's not reasonable to expect you get
through this without making lifestyle changes.
------
getpost
Traffic noise is a problem for many schools in urban areas — another reason
you don’t want to open windows or teach outside.
Moreover, some schools have only small 100% paved outdoor areas.
Example: Ánimo Westside Charter Middle School (funded by Gates Foundation)
[https://goo.gl/maps/Wn2bu5kkh97Ygqt88](https://goo.gl/maps/Wn2bu5kkh97Ygqt88)
Nearby public elementary school adjacent to nature area, with ample unpaved
space, somewhat less noisy, bit still problematic. Playa Vista Elementary
[https://goo.gl/maps/tydUVn1X9ppB7p699](https://goo.gl/maps/tydUVn1X9ppB7p699)
(Not complaining about charter schools, but this is an interesting
juxtaposition, unrelated to the main point of this topic.)
------
CivBase
Unfortunately, I doubt any schools in my neck of the woods could seriously
consider that. North-midwestern winters are very uncomfortable.
~~~
wallacoloo
In my neck of the woods, it’s not too uncommon to find year-round outdoor
seating at restaurants thanks to radiative heaters. Mind you, I’ve never tried
one of these when it’s colder than maybe 45 F. But do you think something like
that is feasible?
~~~
KMag
Having grown up in Minnesota, come late January and early February, on the
days when the high temperatures are under 0F/-18 C, putting a child out there
for 8 hours under a radiant heater, I think you might actually melt hats/coat
hoods before you fully prevent frostbitten toes. Even if you can keep the
whole kid at reasonable temperatures, I think it would just be very
distracting.
Also, for that power/propane bill, you're probably better off with either per-
desk transparent positive-pressure medical isolation tents or full-face
snorkel masks fitted with 3D printed adapters to ceramic-element anesthesia
machine air filters.
In addition, kids play. Some small percentage of those kids are going to get
burned by heaters.
------
not_a_moth
Can one seriously compare COVID-19 to a TB plague? Especially in context of
schools where mortality rate for the school aged appears to be less than any
seasonal flu on record.
~~~
jedberg
> Especially in context of schools where mortality rate for the school aged
> appears to be less than any seasonal flu on record.
There is no good data to back that up. Since we've been keep track, most kids
have been staying home, away from other kids. Schools have been closed,
playgrounds have been closed, and so on.
There is a good chance it doesn't affect them as much, but it's not entirely
clear since they haven't been socializing as much as adults.
The data we do have says that COVID-19 is 3 times deadlier than the flu for
kids 5-17, and 190 times deadlier for kids 0-4, but that's because the numbers
are small:
[https://i.insider.com/5ef234caf34d051bc821d0d8?width=700&for...](https://i.insider.com/5ef234caf34d051bc821d0d8?width=700&format=jpeg&auto=webp)
Also, lots of adults work in schools. 1/3 of teachers in the US are over 50.
~~~
topkai22
No, at this point we can be pretty certain that this disease doesn't affect
young children as badly as flu. Plenty of kids have tested positive for
COVID19, but almost none have died. This disease is so pervasive we'd see
excess showing up in that age group and we just don't. Kids just don't seem to
get as sick as adults.
What we don't know is how effective kids are as transmission vectors. If
COVID19 spreads rapidly through a school and kids can get thier caretakers
sick, thats a real problem. The limited data we have in suggests that not only
do young kids not have limited disease, they also don't spread it easily, but
all the data I've seen is almost anecdotal.
~~~
jedberg
> No, at this point we can be pretty certain that this disease doesn't affect
> young children as badly as flu
That's just straight up wrong. According to the CDC, as of June 23, COVID-19
was three times deadlier than the flu for kids 5-17, and 190 times deadlier
for kids 0-4:
[https://i.insider.com/5ef234caf34d051bc821d0d8?width=700&for...](https://i.insider.com/5ef234caf34d051bc821d0d8?width=700&format=jpeg&auto=webp)
~~~
topkai22
Mea culpa, I had the <1 numbers of flu in my head as the <10 number- I
shouldn't have said "as badly". However, those charts aren't great- as someone
else noted comparing estimated flu numbers with confirmed COVID cases is
problematic. In my local region, a randomized serology study suggested that we
have at least 3x as many infections as confirmed cases, and a raw
extrapolation of deaths to IFR rates suggests its even higher.
It's best to say "the fatality rate is near the same order as the flu for
school age children"
------
sylvainkalache
Obviously, easier said than done, especially for urban communities.
But I bet students could have better learning outcome, considering that indoor
space are often poorly ventilated and have an excess of CO2
[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/06/health/conference-room-
ai...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/06/health/conference-room-air.html)
------
mullen
This is just a Red Herring. The solution is not outdoor classes, redesigned
schools or open windows but good governance. American's have convinced
themselves that electing smart people who are skilled at government is a bad
thing and that electing populist morons who will say anything to get elected
is the path we should be taking. Had Hillary Clinton been elected, Americans
would not be in this situation and we would not be taking about these
pointless side issues. The US would have dealt with this pandemic issue months
ago and not talking about these Red Herring pointless topics. Just a
distraction and chasing miracle cures that don't exist.
------
NicoJuicy
That's a great idea ( in some areas) actually
------
2038AD
I've got a feeling that children are more likely to pay attention outside
------
paganel
Also, the fact that many schools in the US have classes with no windows should
be made illegal, when I first heard about that I thought it was a joke (until
I saw some photos). The communists did a lot of things wrong in my country
when they came to power after WW2 but one of the things that they did do right
was to build lots and lots of new schools, and every one of the classes in
those schools had big windows by mandated design, not just as an afterthought.
~~~
doukdouk
Do you have any of those photos? I find it hard to believe.
~~~
throwaway0a5e
Most schools have all the classrooms on a perimeter so they get light. If
there's a courtyard there will likely be classrooms on the interior as well.
Rooms without windows tend to be intentionally reserved for things like
artistic use (no windows to open to screw with humidity that some materials
might not like), music (you can plaster _all_ the walls in sound deadening.
You don't tend to get windowless classrooms until decades after the building
was built and the school is simply making due with the facilities they have in
light of their changing needs. They'll shove a math class in a former art room
or something.
Back in the day windowless rooms were somewhat coveted because everyone had
lesson plans on transparencies and they'd teach using the overhead projector
the way some teachers use a PowerPoint today. Being able to turn down the
lights (and not have the sun defeat your efforts) and then have the projector
be the main focus helps keep the class on-task and keeps the teacher in better
control of rowdy classes because the people who would drift off topic and
engage in distracting chit-chat tend to drift off to sleep instead.
~~~
eitally
My elementary schools were 1) L-shaped single story with classrooms ringing
the exterior perimeter, 2) traditional 5 story brick with an atrium so both
interior and exterior rooms got natural light. Middle school was single story
again. High school was traditional 3 story brick. The only rooms without
natural light were basement rooms (for band, theatre & ROTC) under the
auditorium, which I think was 100% acceptable.
------
viburnum
Anything to avoid actually eradicating the virus, as many other countries have
done now.
------
mmm_grayons
So students should be expected to operate in hundred-degree heat? It's well-
know heat harms focus and productivity. This is fine for kids in new york who
can just bundle up against the cold, but one can only do so much against heat
in places like Texas where temps can top 110.
~~~
topkai22
Come on, this obviously depends on where you are- the article is a New York
city newspaper talking about new york and the northeast.
You can't do outdoor classes in Texas in August, but by late September or
October it becomes totally feasible.
~~~
matthewowen
To add to this: the article was published in the "metropolitan" section this
weekend. It's very much intended to be local.
------
tomohawk
It is unhelpful to only look at risks due to covid without looking at those
risks in comparison to others. Optimizing for least covid problems may cause
death or morbidity due to other things to actually cause more damage.
Hospitalization rates in the US for covid is:
0% for 10 and under
.1% for 10 - 20
In the US, the number of deaths for covid is:
20 (total!) for 0 - 14
125 (total!) for 15 - 24
By comparison, suicide caused 514 deaths for 10-14 year olds, and 6500 deaths
for 15-24 year olds in 2017.
[https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml](https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml)
By comparison, the CDC estimates that around 600 children died of the flu in
2017/2018.
[https://www.cdc.gov/flu/highrisk/children.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/highrisk/children.htm)
~~~
macintux
That rather disregards the adults who will be required to be in close
proximity to all of these children during the day, and the adults who will be
caring for these children when they’re home.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Edward Snowden looms over Pulitzer Prizes - 001sky
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/edward-snowden-pulitzer-prize-washington-post-guardian-nsa-104608.html
======
higherpurpose
Reminder to self: never update a Politico story ever again. It seems they are
a little too eager to tell us with each of their Snowden stories how "many
people think he's a traitor".
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Endyloop – Work for companies that offer amazing perks and culture - dhay06
http://Endyloop.com
======
dhay06
I just launched Endyloop on Producthunt today at
[https://www.producthunt.com/posts/endyloop](https://www.producthunt.com/posts/endyloop).
I wrote a blog on
[https://dhialouhichi.com/endyloop](https://dhialouhichi.com/endyloop)
Let me know what you think! :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Some thoughts on organizational complexity - LiveTheDream
http://daltoncaldwell.com/thoughts-on-organizational-complexity
======
zaidf
_Organizational complexity can show up in odd ways in a shipping product. For
instance, why does a single product, the Microsoft Surface, give consumers the
option between two very different OSes: one model with “Windows RT” and
another with “Windows 8 Pro”._
Can someone pen a counterpoint to this? I feel that one exists but I am not
able to get it out. Basically, I see _tonnes_ of assumptions in the above and
that basically, it is almost _all_ bad. Yet, there is _something_ about it
that must still be working: the company behind it continues to make billions.
Why? How? Is there nothing to learn from that?
It is easy to make fun of large companies and their structures and yet Dalton
himself probably wouldn't mind building a billion dollar empire with the
similar type of "red tape".
------
shanellem
I really liked this:
More companies die of indigestion than from starvation. \- David Packard
I think it's highly relevant right now as more and more startups are getting
funded. It sometimes seems like those startups are thinking "Now what?"
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Checking multiple airports can save a fortune: Here is why - nlanges
https://medium.com/@tripdelta/why-it-makes-sense-to-check-more-than-one-airport-for-your-next-flight-a72355a38f22
======
dribel
nice write!!! But isn't that clear? I mean, that's why it always takes me ages
to book a flight....But good to know why. Is there a way to find out which
airport has especially high surcharges?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? - SQL2219
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190709-has-humanity-reached-peak-intelligence
======
aaron695
There are a billion people who's childrens IQ are being permanently reduced
from lack of infant nutrients.
You have many billions of people alive who have had this happened to them.
Then toss in the other things that reduce IQ post infancy.
Lot of scope for worldwide improvement.
Looking at the top countries is a different important. But understanding the
Flynn effect would be step one which isn't happening. There don't even seem to
be any theories. When you can't even find crackpots YouTube talking about it,
there's an issue.
------
Bostonian
A recent paper finds that The Flynn effect for fluid IQ may not generalize to
all ages or ability levels: A population-based study of 10,000 US adolescents
[https://www.gwern.net/docs/iq/2019-platt.pdf](https://www.gwern.net/docs/iq/2019-platt.pdf)
. "IQs decreased 4.9 points for those with IQ ≤ 70 (95% CI = −4.9, −4.8), but
increased 3.5 points among those with IQ ≥ 130 (95% CI = 3.4, 3.6)."
------
maestrokuro
I feel like there's quite a lot scope for engineering the levels of
intelligence within a given population. To my knowledge, most languages spoken
throughout the world reached their current forms naturally, without any kind
of deliberate influence by their speakers. What if, however, a language was
actively designed to be as information dense as possible? What effect would it
have on the average intelligence of a population in which said language was
gradually introduced to the point where children were raised speaking it?
~~~
mood_lines
The population would likely speak it slower to compensate. Information density
and speech rate are inversely correlated, with an average information rate
around 39 bits/second.
[https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/9/eaaw2594](https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/9/eaaw2594)
------
perl4ever
I suspect we're in the process of exponentially increasing the selection
pressure on intelligence, because of the pervasive use of computers/AI/ML to
exploit consumers.
~~~
JohnBooty
The sophistication of consumer exploitation is increasing, no doubt!
However, I can't fathom this having an evolutionary impact. It is awfully
difficult to fail so hard at being a consumer that you don't make it to your
reproductive years, right?
~~~
perl4ever
Sometimes people think of evolution as a binary thing - you reproduce or you
don't. But a few generations on, some people leave huge numbers of descendants
and some don't. There isn't a huge variance in the number of children people
have, but that gets multiplied for grandchildren, and again for great-
grandchildren...so the scale is not 0 to 1 (or 2 or 3), but 0 to <big number>.
I wouldn't make any sweeping statements a priori about how economic inequality
affects that, but if some people have all their resources vacuumed up and some
don't, it's going to affect their lives on average somehow.
------
boyadjian
That is an interesting question. I think that intelligence of human being is
limited by sexual behavior. Our instinct of reproduction has the consequence
that people willing the most to reproduce themselves become a majority, but
these are not necessary the most intelligent. Yes, I think that peak
intelligence have been reached. We see that the way countries are led : Often,
decisions made to be popular, but not very effective on the long term.
------
notjtrig
This study says the Flynn effect has been reversing for starting in the birth
year 1975.
[https://www.pnas.org/content/115/26/6674](https://www.pnas.org/content/115/26/6674)
~~~
AlecSchueler
From the 70s-2000 there was considerably more led in the atmosphere than
before/after which I've seen linked to increased rates of e.g. violent crimes
globally during that period. I suspect that the reversal of the Flynn effect
during that time is also related and we will see the reverse of the reverse
from kids born since the 00
~~~
perl4ever
Huh? The late 70s was when lead was banned in a lot of stuff. And you can see
the higher violent crime in countries that used lead longer, like say
Venezuela.
So, yeah, everybody knows about the linkage, but it should make you stop and
consider that it would make you expect the opposite of the claim above.
------
rowanG077
Not likely. We aren't even trying to reach 'Peak intelligence'.
~~~
JohnBooty
I believe "peak" in this context means "the highest point we will ever reach,"
not "the highest point this species might theoretically be capable of."
------
derp_dee_derp
Yes, we've removed most evolutionary pressures so we are kinda just drifting
aimlessly.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What I Learned Selling a Software Business - earlyresort
https://training.kalzumeus.com/newsletters/archive/selling_software_business
======
aresant
FEI still has the original listing on their site:
Yearly revenue - $31,000
Yearly net profit - $19,000
Asking price - $57,000 SOLD
It's fascinating what a small amount of money we're ultimately talking about
vs. the influence of the "cult of Bingo Card Creator fans" on HN - which I am
card carrying member of.
(1) [http://feinternational.com/buy-a-website/3745-software-
busin...](http://feinternational.com/buy-a-website/3745-software-business-in-
education-niche-25k-gross-mo)
~~~
zkhalique
Could someone write an article about Patrick McKenzie's appeal and techniques
on marketing to the HN community? :)
And by marketing, I mean getting their attention and building a brand, not
money.
~~~
patio11
BCC was originally a bit of a purple cow, which is interesting to the HN
community because it overlaps programming/business but different than the vast
majority of what is on HN because it's the aggressively un-startup startup.
Publishing sales numbers before that was common probably helped a non-zero
amount, too.
Many HNers feel a sense of personal investment in me, because HN has been my
home-away-from-home for ~7 years now and I am a "local boy who made good."
I write decently and have a strong written voice which people like.
A relatively small fraction of what I write is immediately useful to people.
Also: I write _a lot_. My published output is something on the order of ~3
million words, roughly ~2 million of which are on HN. (Give or take 500k or
so. It's been a while since I ran the script and I don't have a few hours to
wait before bed.) That's roughly Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Game of
Thrones... combined.
There: that's the whole secret. Use these dark magicks responsibly.
~~~
Bluestrike2
That's... prolific. On a _very_ unrelated note, are you the same patio11 who
was a parli debater a while back? I've seen your username across HN before but
never drew that connection until now. Assuming that's the case, I've got a
really embarrassing question for you.
I remember reading a comment of yours on Net Benefits years ago on critiques
(I think it was about how some critiques more or less used the subject as a
one-dimensional cutout to haul out in the middle of rounds and stick back in
the box when done) and you talked about a Japanese phrase that meant something
along the lines of "wallflower" (?) in that context.
I searched for that comment a few times, but never could find it again. It
drove me up a wall in a few rounds because it was always on the tip of my
tongue but I couldn't remember. Then it didn't matter after my school decided
to screw up our debate program, but it was one of those dumb little things
that continued to bug me. Any chance you remember what I'm talking about, now
that the annoying itch to know has come back? :)
~~~
patio11
Wow, that's a blast from the past. Yep, that is indeed me. I don't remember
the specific post about kritiks, but the word I probably used was "sakura" in
the sense of "a human prop."
Sakura are, in the Japanese theatre tradition, confederates who you place in
the audience with instructions to be vocally demonstrative at particular
points in the play. This is to get the rest of the audience to join in.
They're not actors but they are deployed to make the actors look good.
~~~
Bluestrike2
Ha, same for me. It's crazy to think about how much time debate took up back
then. Blast from the past is right. Anyhow, thanks for the explanation. I
liked the analogy back then, and I still do now that I know the term :).
------
song
Just wanted to quote this:
"I’m told, against my expectations, that BCC was impressively well-documented
by the standards of other businesses its size. This implies that many people
are running their small projects in even more of a cowboy fashion than I do,
for example by not having dedicated books for the business. If this describes
you, God help you. At a minimum, get your books for the last year done
professionally — whatever you spend on bookkeepers/accountants will be a
pittance next to the time saved and additional valuation captured."
Even if you're not selling, getting this done will save a lot of headaches the
road... Dedicated books for the business is a MUST. I know a lot of small
businesses where this is not done religiously and it always comes back to bite
the owner in the ass...
EDIT: By the way, I was curious so I just took a look at the BCC site, the
blog is timing out...
~~~
mbesto
I regularly see companies (i.e. P&L, Balance sheets, technology spend, etc) in
the small/mid cap space (EBITDA of anywhere between $500k-$10M) and you'd be
amazed at how poorly documented businesses are that still are able to generate
serious profits.
~~~
mooreds
"There's no problem that sales can't solve."
Well, except if you want to sell your company at some point in the future or
actually have some idea of COGS or know how you are actually doing.
~~~
jerguismi
If the books aren't done properly, and you want to sell, but still can
demonstrate profitability, there will be someone who will buy at some price.
Money can solve also the problem where you can pay someone to go through your
accounts etc, and make the books from ground up. Of course it is going to be
expensive, and you need a good accountant for that.
------
dennisgorelik
This time Patrick's summary of Bingo Card Creator does not look rosy at all.
All facts are still the same, but the overall impression of BCC now is that it
is a small, declining and time-consuming business. Patrick himself actually
struggles with money, like all of us.
Patrick definitely has (had?) the power of optimistic spin in his stories.
~~~
beeboop
Patrick struggles with money? What's your source for that? Last I recall he
was writing about how he did consulting gigs making tens of thousands of
dollars a week.
~~~
graeme
I don't recall the blog post, but when Patrick switched from consulting to
appointment reminder only, he had a sudden cash crunch due to an (unexpected
tax bill?) and suffered a major health crisis. That wasn't that long ago.
I think the consulting gigs were not constant. Those were the high points. He
had a high income, just not so high as if you multiply $15,000 * 52.
I'm writing this as a fan of Patrick's. Just clarifying your answer based on
my recollection of his writings. It's pretty plausible he didn't have a
massive savings buffer.
Speaking as an entrepreneur, there's always conflict between saving money vs.
investing more of it in businesses. I imagine a lot of value is locked up in
appointment reminder. This last paragraph is entirely speculation and not
based on anything I remember Patrick writing.
------
davidw
> Back in the day someone won a Nobel Prize for pointing out that, if a
> population of goods has unknown potentially costly problems, and there is no
> way to determine which particular instances of the goods have the problesms,
> the market will penalize all goods in that population. The canonical example
> is used cars.
George Akerlof and "The Market for Lemons":
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Akerlof](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Akerlof)
~~~
nerfhammer
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons)
------
sdrinf
| Selling BCC was going to pay for living expenses while we built
Starfighter’s first game (Stockfighter) and also pay for some development work
to assist with the sale of my other SaaS business, Appointment Reminder.
^^ - you're selling AR as well? Last presentation was showing that to be a
profit machine? Would love to learn about the reasoning behind that decision!
~~~
patio11
AR is modestly successful, but needs to buy three things at the moment: my
family's living expenses, my attention (via hiring reasonably complete
replacements for me), and my contribution to Starfighter. It can afford
roughly one of them.
"Why sell AR?" is pretty straightforward: I'm CEO of Starfighter. I signed up
for 5~10 years of my life building stock exchanges and getting devs better
jobs, and that's _more than enough work_. It does not need to be interrupted
by e.g. dealing with the Lithuanian hacker ring which found a novel way to
route calls to Caribbean phone sex numbers. (A great story for another day.)
~~~
dpritchett
This suggests that StarFighter has some cash that is being used to keep you
afloat. I don't expect you to disclose, but I'm guessing there's a silent
partner or maybe just some ex-Matasano money floating things. Cool!
------
benologist
I'm spending this year packaging up my current business to make it as
attractive as possible to potential buyers.
This talks a lot about the process, but what are some things people like us
can do to maximize their return on such a sale?
~~~
patio11
Grow revenue via any legitimate means. Cancel any expenses that aren't
required to run the businesses (SaaS accounts you keep around "in case I get
around to it", etc). Obsessively document everything you do for the business;
get as much as possible outsourced to people following the procedures you've
written up, ideally without spending too much money on this.
Get your ducks in a row on numbers, most importantly the financials
(bookkeeping bookkeeping bookkeeping) but also classic (SaaS?) analytics
numbers like number of trials, conversion rate, churn rate, etc. Historical
numbers and numbers segmented per traffic source/vintage are good things to
have, too. Bonus points if these are pointing in the right direction over
time.
In more detail: [http://feinternational.com/blog/saas-metrics-how-to-value-
sa...](http://feinternational.com/blog/saas-metrics-how-to-value-saas-
business/)
I might also add "Negotiate the sales price, even if the buyer and/or broker
does not want to negotiate the sales price."
------
simonswords82
I got in touch with FEI about selling one of my web businesses and they
couldn't help due to our UK focus. Sucks for us, I've heard good things about
them.
Can anybody recommend a broker that assists UK based and focussed web
businesses?
~~~
ThomasSmale
Hi Simon,
Sorry we couldn't help - our focus tends to be on businesses that are
primarily US focused with their customer base (although our sellers are based
all over the world). Not aware of any established UK brokers who focus on web
businesses - there isn't a huge market with UK buyers for online businesses so
not overly attractive to enter.
Thomas (from FE International)
~~~
jordanlev
lol... didn't know the "I" in FEI stood for "International" until this comment
talking about how you are US-focused :)
------
voltagex_
>migrate all of my email in Google Apps for Work (oh God, don’t ever do this)
Yeah... I have a non-trivial number of purchased Android apps on my Google
Apps for Work account ($6AUD/month) and there's no published way to move apps
to a "normal" Google account.
I'd probably be paying Google forever if I had business dependencies hanging
off that account (but I set it up when custom domains were "free").
------
voltagex_
>Accordingly, I decided to retroactively cut her in for 5% of the business.
Props to Pepper for accommodating this request, as it is somewhat non-
standard. ("Can you invoice me a substantial amount of money and promise me
that you will pay a particular employee of yours a bonus of the same amount,
net only of taxes?" "We can do that.")
Businesses exist that are this cool? Where do I find them?
------
pitt1980
"People try to buy software businesses with “no money down.” (“Will you loan
me the entire purchase price of the business? I’ll pay you back over the next
3 years. Promise!”)"
\----------------
While I see why you would have run away from that particular structure, I'm
curious as to how flexible you might have been from a straight lump sum
structure
If I was buy a business like this, willing to accept $X as money down, some %
percentage of revenue for Y months, until you were paid Z amount, with some
contingencies built in would look pretty attractive
a sellers willingness to agree to terms like that would send a pretty strong
signal that they weren't selling a lemon
as a buyer, I'd be willing to commit to a Z price significantly higher than
what I'd be willing to commit as a lump sum up front
if the seller believed in the business, (and I guess were able to substantiate
that I had enough ability no to drive the business into the ground) it seems
like such a structure would net the seller more as well
\----------------------
I'd love to hear your thoughts about how receptive you might have been to an
offer like that
~~~
ufmace
I would expect that it isn't so much about the direct financial tradeoffs so
much as the question of - will you actually continue to pay on the loan
agreement, and what are my realistic options if you decide not to?
The first would require quite a lot of expensive, invasive due diligence on
your ability to pay that people selling software businesses don't care to
perform or pay somebody else to perform.
The second is likely to be lousy. Options are likely to be to file a lawsuit,
which is expensive, and try to collect if you win, which may or may not be
possible, and is almost certainly very time-consuming.
If you're selling a software business, you're mostly likely doing it because
you don't want to bother with it anymore. You are very unlikely to suddenly
decide you want to start up what is effectively a bank for one guy. I'd tell
anyone who says they can't afford a lump sum to try to get a loan from an
actual bank, because I have no interest in pretending to be one.
------
BorisMelnik
I think one of the big things about BCC isn't how much (or how little) money
he made but how well documented the process was. We've all seen plenty of
projects do 10k months but not many of them are sustainable or so well
documented in a blog.
------
raymondhong
great
------
sbierwagen
(2015)
~~~
cpach
This essay was published like 17 minutes ago :)
~~~
sbierwagen
I could have _sworn_ I had read this post before, but googling doesn't show
any strings from it showing up anywhere else.
It's always disconcerting to get slapped in the face with clear evidence of a
memory error. Did I combine
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9589223](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9589223)
and [http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/12/22/kalzumeus-software-
year-...](http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/12/22/kalzumeus-software-year-in-
review-2014/) somehow? Who knows.
~~~
dennisgorelik
You could predict many of these things described in this post from other
Patrick's posts and comments.
Other "I sold my SaaS business" stories discussed on HN in the past could make
Déjà vu impression too.
------
quellhorst
Such a long article but no mention of how much he sold it for.
~~~
simonswords82
$57,000 SOLD
See [http://feinternational.com/buy-a-website/3745-software-
busin...](http://feinternational.com/buy-a-website/3745-software-busin..).
~~~
kentt
I might be wrong, but I don't think that means that it was sold for 57k, only
that it was the asking price.
~~~
shawn-furyan
That's true but the article does mention how most of the things that impact
price went in patio11's favor. One can reasonably infer that if the seller
feels everything went in his favor at the end of the process that he wasn't
bullied too far off of his asking price.
He does also mention how one seller tried to demand a 40% discount at close,
and that the broker had a better deal waiting in the wings. So we can have a
pretty high degree of certainty that the sale price was between $28,500 and
$57,000, likely closer to $57k.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why Google bought Songza: The music industry's third revolution - stevep2007
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2449657/opensource-subnet/why-google-bought-songza-the-music-industrys-revolution-spotify-streaming.html#more
======
stevep2007
Thomas Edison revolutionized music when he invented recording. Steve Jobs re-
revolutionized music with the iPod and iTunes. Now music streaming has
launched a third revolution.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: e-mail-based Twitter monitoring? - charliepark
I'm guessing someone's done it already, but if not, I might build it. Essentially, I'm looking for a way to receive an e-mail alert whenever a specific term comes up on Twitter. I know one way to do this is to set an RSS feed off of search.twitter.com, but that still requires my checking an RSS feed ... I'd like something that automatically comes to me in my e-mail inbox. (I guess I could set up an RSS-to-e-mail forwarding service to do this, but this seems like a fair amount of overhead for what should be a simple operation.)<p>So ... anybody have a link to a service that does this?
======
esessoms
<http://notify.me/>
~~~
charliepark
That does it! Thanks.
------
pierrefar
You can also use Yahoo! Alerts to monitor a RSS feed and email you new items:
<http://alerts.yahoo.com/>
------
jazzychad
<http://tweetymail.com/>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Even in Test Form, Windows 7 Leaves Vista in the Dust - rogercosseboom
http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20090121/even-in-test-form-windows-7-leaves-vista-in-the-dust/
======
unalone
I really hope Windows 7 turns out to be a decent operating system. I'm a Mac
guy, but I feel that that's out of default right now: there's nothing else
that's as polished or capable. I'd like it to be a real competition.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Founders: It’s not 1990. Stop treating your employees like it is - shalinmangar
https://medium.com/@tikhon/founders-it-s-not-1990-stop-treating-your-employees-like-it-is-523f48fe90cb#.hdegartfi
======
0x49
"Founders can start a company for $7 on Digital Ocean with almost no risk.
Founders complain constantly they can’t hire engineers."
I disagree with this and the point of the article that it's not very risky to
start a company these days. Out of all the people creating startups, very few
get investors. Especially early on when the company has no customers.
It's also not easy to hire anyone..let alone an engineer. It's so easy to fake
experience with a fake resume, fake startup experience, and a few Github
projects.
..and saying that you can start a company with only $7 and a digital ocean
account shows me that the author doesn't really know that much about what it
takes to start a company. Even if one person does all the work, it still takes
money to start a company. Much more than $7 and many startup owners are using
credit cards or savings.
"Employees take the most risk today. Not the investors or the founders — it’s
the employees. Yet they’re still compensated like it’s 1990"
I finally see why the author doesn't know anything about running a startup:
they are an employee. Yes, an Employee does take some risk with a startup.
However:
-Employees can quit at any time
-Employees, while working at a company, are paid hourly or salary, regardless of the profits of the company. I own a company now and my pay is directly effected by the amount of money the company is making (this isn't the case for my employees).
-9 times out of 10, Owners invested their own money in the company. If the company goes bust, the employee is inconvenienced, might even be able to go on unemployment, and can just get another job. Owners now have credit card debt/other debt that they need to pay off.
-Owners and investors risk reputation as well as money. If the company is unsuccessful, it does not matter to a future employer (for an employee). It definitely does for an owner and investor.
-If an owner takes on VC, they almost always end up in the same position as an employee. Aside from a few anomalies, most founders that graduate from YC and take VC end up getting pushed out of positions of power and having their shares heavily diluted. I think it has to do with the fact that many founders don't have the experience to run a company with hundreds or thousands of employees and the investors aren't willing to risk their money to find out. This is a huge risk.
"There’s a strong slant toward the status quo, and most still try to force
this outdated 90’s math on today’s startups and employees"
It's not 'outdated math'. An employees doesn't risk money or reputation and
can leave at any time with little consequences. This is reflective of the
potential shares they get of the company above and beyond their paycheck.
Why should someone get more shares of the company without taking on more risk?
~~~
geebee
I think you may be underestimating the amount of risk an engineer takes on by
working at a particular startup.
For instance, consider your statement here:
"Employees… are paid hourly or salary, regardless of the profits of the
company"
I can assure you that this isn't necessarily true. I've seen startups go kaput
and fail to make payroll. Employees may not always be aware of the risks, but
they are exposed to them.
However, even that doesn't really capture the risk an employee takes on, if
you look at missed opportunities as a risk. It varies, of course, as some
startups pay better than others, and not all employees have the same ability
to easily find jobs. But consider someone who has the ability to get hired as
a senior SE at a place like google or netflix, who instead works at a startup
for, say, $150k a year. That's still probably close to $75K in lost income a
year, and I really do think I'm keeping these numbers conservative. You go for
four years, and not including interest on investments (there are enough
factors, taxes, and so forth, that I'll hand waive here)... and that's $300k
in lost salary. Keep in mind, it could be considerably more! Alternatively,
working for one startup means not working for another, so a relatively unknown
founder may need to compensate for the lower probability that you will succeed
with higher equity levels than someone with a more celebrated track record
would need to offer.
Lastly, you are underestimating the value of stable employment. It's as hard
to understand now as it was in 2000, but I saw plenty of good programmers go
without work for quite a while. Some were left in pretty dire financial
situations. Some people, on H1Bs, left stable jobs that would have led
permanent residency in a few more years, for startups that folded, in an
environment where getting new sponsorship was difficult - in short, had they
stayed with the stable employer, they would have gotten residency. Now, they
had to start all over! We're in a boom right now, but the environment in a
serious recession has very severe consequences for people who haven't found a
place to weather the storm.
Also there may simply be an imbalance here. I know it's hard to accept, but it
may actually be harder to become an exceptional engineer than a startup
founder. A nontechnical founder may be taking on more risk simply because
there aren't as many other options. Again, it all depends on the founder, and
the engineer - some founders have exceptional options and amazing track
records and tech skills to boot, others are vastly overestimating the value
they bring to the table.
In short, to answer your last question of "why should someone should get more
shares of the company without taking on more risk?" My answer is twofold. 1)
they _may_ be taking on vastly more risk than you have estimated through lost
opportunities/salary/lack of job stability, 2) they may be entitled to more
shares even at lower risk levels because their skills are very valuable (truth
is, they may be more valuable than the founder in some cases).
~~~
0x49
"Employees may not always be aware of the risks, but they are exposed to
them."
Everyone is exposed to risks. Jobs are never a sure thing in the first place
and being a first employee or an employee at a newly funded startup is always
going to have some risk. If you aren't willing to take on the risk that comes
along with the job, you can work for a non-startup. Plenty of people do this.
"But consider someone who has the ability to get hired as a senior SE at a
place like google or netflix, who instead works at a startup for, say, $150k a
year. That's still probably close to $75K in lost income a year, and I really
do think I'm keeping these numbers conservative."
An opportunity risk, maybe. However, if the person loses their job..they don't
really lose that money. It's pretty unfair to put that responsibility on the
employer and impossible to prove one way or the other (How are you going to
prove an opportunity that will or will not happen??)
You could also make that same argument for any company (not just a startup).
If I work at a place making $75K, I could be potentially leaving money on the
table because another unknown company might want to hire me for $100K.
"1) they may be taking on vastly more risk than you have estimated through
lost opportunities/salary/lack of job stability,"
Which really isn't taking on more risk in regards to the company, which is my
point. We are all taking on risk with almost every decision we make. Nothing
is a sure thing.
"they may be entitled to more shares even at lower risk levels because their
skills are very valuable (truth is, they may be more valuable than the founder
in some cases)."
They aren't entitled to anything and nearly all employees are expendable. How
do I know? I was the valuable employee in many companies before I started my
own. I, and everyone I ever worked with, could be replaced. Was it easy? Of
course not. But the work in most companies isn't rocket science...and when it
is, the company compensates the employee accordingly and tries to keep them
there at all costs.
Once again, shares in the company is directly proportional to risk. If as an
employee, you are willing to take a paycheck directly related to the success
of the company and, or take on debt when the everything crashes, they you have
the leverage to get a higher percentage of the profits.
The way I see it, you want a higher percentage of the profits for no more
increase in risk, which doesn't really make sense.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Pirate Coelho (2008) - wanderer42
http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2008/02/03/pirate-coelho/
======
coldtea
> _Regular readers of my blog probably remember my endless discussions about
> copyright. Every time that I see a song in my profile “deleted by the
> author” I ask to myself: don’t they understand that if I hear a song and I
> like, chances are that I will buy the CD?_
Most wont. They'll just download the album in mp3. Unless they're over 40.
And they have the numbers about that - averages of what they used to sell pre-
internet, what they sell now, which parts of those are digital sales, which
are streams of the album, etc.
------
ssivark
Article from (2008).
~~~
marcosvpj
[http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2016/04/13/who-deleted-the-
song-i...](http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2016/04/13/who-deleted-the-song-in-my-
profile/)
This one is from this year :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
‘Shut the Site Down,’ Says 8chan’s Creator - empath75
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/04/technology/8chan-shooting-manifesto.html
======
zaroth
So literally everyone so much as reading 8chan/pol is on a watchlist, right?
And what about the people posting they are about to “go kill as many brown
people as they can find and they plan on being dead by the end of the day?”
It’s a felony terroristic threat.
How about we just arrest everyone posting _terroristic threats_ before they
can do this kind of damage? 8Chan, or whatever public forum these discussions
are occurring on.
I keep reading about blimps watching us 24/7, license plate readers tracking
everywhere we drive.
Either these terrorists have the best opsec imaginable, or the FBI agents
watching the site should consider a new line of work.
A guy like the El Paso shooter driving 9 hours to that city should have been
stopped for a “broken tail light” long before he got to his destination.
I find it nearly incomprehensible that the attacker was entirely unknown to
the FBI, that they didn’t flag the manifesto, know who posted it, and have the
means to know he was, at that very moment, on a long road-trip toward the
border.
I don’t personally know how long ahead of the attack the manifesto was posted,
or if it was the attacker’s first post. Perhaps those details would mitigate
somewhat my exasperation that this attack wasn’t foiled, but I suspect
otherwise.
EDIT: According to the NYT it was posted 19 minutes before the first 911 call
came in. But Newsweek says an hour and a half.
~~~
kpU8efre7r
>I keep reading about blimps watching us 24/7, license plate readers tracking
everywhere we drive.
It's almost as if this "surveillance state" you all imagine doesn't exist.
There are checks in place and warrants needed for this. If you see something
illegal online you could report it to the FBI perhaps?
~~~
brigandish
The ability to see something and stop it is not the same as the desire to see
something and stop it.
~~~
kennywinker
The ability to collect something and the ability to see it are two different
things. Just because data about this guy may have been snarfed up, doesn’t
mean anybody looked at it.
------
rolph
Ones moral constitution is supremely revealed in the manner of conduct chosen
when no perceived consequences exist.
e.g. Lord of The Flies.
~~~
JackFr
There was a great quote from some WWII officer who said about war crimes
(paraphrasing & I can’t remember his name) “We observe the rules of war not
for the sake of our enemies, but for the sake of ourselves.”
------
Buldak
If 8chan is really committed to some kind of free speech absolutism, it makes
me wonder why they removed the offending posts.
~~~
tdxgx
8chan's owner allows free speech. The admin of each board can moderate as he
pleases.
------
hestipod
What is a workable answer when it comes to behavior and speech other than a
rules based society with limits? I don't see truly oppressed people talking
about this problem as the concept was meant to protect, I see people who want
to be allowed to do and say whatever they feel like despite how it affects
innocents. They hijack the intent for nefarious purpose. It's proven over and
over that bad people abuse and take over platforms and societies that are
entirely open. You cannot have entirely "free" speech without this problem.
Any civilized society has to have limits and rules otherwise regular, calm,
peaceful people are always suffering the effects of the aggressors.
I've used the example before of a town with one place to eat. Someone comes in
screaming and throwing poop at people. You cannot just "ignore" it. It ruins
the place for others. So you choice is to suffer it or never go out to eat and
socialize with other calm folks. Is that a proper price to pay so the
screaming poop thrower doesn't feel oppressed? Is that really sensible? Sure
long term you can build another diner at your own expense...but the screaming
poop thrower will come there too and if you kick him out you are "censoring".
You can also stay home. But you lose out on experience and peace to avoid the
problem. But this seems to be the idea people who are entirely against any
censorship or rules propose. "If you don't like it ignore it or move on". That
doesn't work in the real world.
~~~
tomp
I don’t see why it wouldn’t work online though. I think platforms like Twitter
should adopt a “filter-list” like approach, where you could “unsubscribe” from
different kinds of content / posters (e.g. “porn”, “gore”, “right-wing
extremists”, “sci-fi enthusiasts”, etc.) - these lists could be generated both
automatically (e.g. for porn), and / or manually moderated.
------
pram
What exactly makes 8chan the preferred platform for this kind of stuff, and
not other websites? Genuinely curious, is it just because it’s unmoderated?
~~~
astura
I think this is the reason (from TFA):
>The site remained on the fringes until 2014, when some supporters of
GamerGate — a loose reactionary collection of anti-feminist video gamers —
flocked to 8chan after being kicked off 4chan. Since GamerGate, 8chan has
become a catchall website for internet-based communities whose behavior gets
them evicted from more mainstream sites.
~~~
dinofacedude
That and Voat. Voat is almost as bad in a lot of ways
------
Simulacra
It’s a distasteful site but I think it should stay. No speech should be
silenced.
~~~
Aloha
Historically very little speech could be made without social consequences, the
internet broke that paradigm
~~~
happytoexplain
I think these two posts just about sum up the state of things and our
disagreements at this time in history as succinctly as I could imagine.
~~~
Aloha
The question I keep asking is, how do we add those social consequences back
into internet speech, without massive regulation, this I do not know the
answer to yet.
------
mdrzn
Is there a way to read the NY Times? I can't be incognito, or in guest mode,
and Outline says "not supported".
Same shit with LA Times and the WP.
~~~
dredmorbius
Disable JS.
------
hndamien
Seems like a honeypot for surveillance.
------
neo4sure
I' am celebrating right now...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Disguised user location data collection on Huawei phone? - seapunk
https://threader.app/thread/1051204370543648770
======
mabbo
I know I sound like a broken record on Huawei posts (too many friends' parents
lost their jobs over it) but it's worth pointing out that Huawei has an
(alleged) record relating to stealing information for their own gain, ie: they
stole a lot of IP from Nortel in the 90s[0], possibly others. Then they
competed in the same market with a fraction of the R&D budget and buried
Nortel.
Don't think about this in terms of just governments tracking you. Consider if
you have any work emails containing company secrets in them. Consider if you
have 2FA apps installed that you would use to unlock or change your work
password. And since it was almost certainly the Chinese Intel/Military that
helps Huawei and other companies, you can be sure that whatever information
Huawei gets access to doesn't need to just help _them_ out, but might help any
other company the Chinese government wants to see succeed.
Google and Apple might use your data to better target ads against you. That's
terrible, but doesn't seem so bad in comparison.
[0][https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-
ag...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-against-
working-with-huawei-1.1137006)
~~~
da02
What do you mean by, "too many friends' parents lost their jobs over it"?
(Thanks for posting this info. about Huawei.)
~~~
todd3834
I’m guessing they worked at Nortel
~~~
da02
Thanks. That makes sense.
------
iforgotpassword
This is unfortunately common with Chinese software. Remember back in the early
2000s when a lot of freeware and shareware shoveled adware onto your PC
without telling you? Remember when tools like ad-aware were popular? Nowadays
that's the exception, or done by those shady download portals which wrap the
installers of everything. And often times there's at least a checkbox in the
installer. It seems China is currently where we were back then. User awareness
is low, as long as things work nobody cares.
Sure, there's tons of malware on the play store etc., but it's always from
some weird vendor nobody has ever heard of. Coincidentally, a couple days ago
I noticed a friend's phone running really hot. It was freshly charged, taken
off the charger about half an hour ago, but freaking hot. I checked the
battery stats and "sougou", a popular Chinese keyboard (if not the most
popular one) clocked in with 24 minutes of CPU time. I told my friend and we
uninstalled immediately. Two days later he was super happy and told me his
phone's battery life increased greatly and he can now even make it through a
full day (...). Now I'm still hesitant to claim this was definitely some
mining software embedded in the keyboard, it might as well have been a messed
up config making some thread spin in an infinite loop, but the suspicion
stays...
------
captainmuon
Umm, I don't doubt that there is a lot of nefarious data collection going on,
for both profit and political reasons. But this seems to me like a "Google
Now" kind of feature, that suggests modes of transportation based on your
current location. Having a list of train stations and airports and doing the
detection on the phone as opposed to in the cloud seems even the more privacy
protecting way (although they probably still upload your entire GPS history
like Google does...).
~~~
lwhi
I'm guessing POI stands for person of interest?
If so, seems more nefarious to me ...
Edit: definitely more likely it's point of interest
~~~
zht
POI stands for point of interest probably.
When stand-alone GPS navigation devices were more common it was a pretty
common acronym.
~~~
lwhi
Good point .. but if you look at the context, I think person of interest
actually makes more sense in a lot of cases.
~~~
azinman2
Context is about location. Point of interest is most probable. That’s standard
mapping lingo.
~~~
lwhi
I definitely understand your point, but I'm talking about the specific context
the acronym is being used in.
e.g.
callsPoiAtHome() callsPoiAtHomeAtGeoPoint() callsPoiAtFamiliarPlace()
callsPoiAtWorkPlace()
Edit: typo
~~~
yayana
Why would you combine the Boolean for whether a user is nefariously a Person
OI with each type of check for their location?
Nefarious POI would have a very limited context in the frontend (after it
turns everything on.)
Subcategories of Points OI being coded this way makes a lot more sense.
~~~
lwhi
Yeah, good point - may have been watching too much TV :)
------
sigmar
This doesn't seem like responsible reverse engineering (specifically:
decompiling one app and then publishing strings to give people partial
information and assume the worst). There are definitely possible legitimate
uses for one apk without a UI to "suggest modes of transportation" to another
apk, as another comment on this thread describes.
------
axaxs
Sigh, this guy again. He is not a real security researcher, but obviously a
novice learning about programming and decompiling. That is fine, except he
keeps making outlandish and wrong accusations. He kept doing the same thing to
OnePlus, until he basically got laughed away by real security researchers.
Something to keep in mind as you read...
~~~
nilsocket
I don't known if author is stating any truth.
I have a Honor mobile, some of there apps were system apps. You can't disable
them, or uninstall even when you are rooted.
On OTA updates they add new system apps.
It's fine to have bloatware, but forcing users to keep it is not fine.
~~~
sschueller
My Samsung prevents me from uninstalling the Facebook app which came pre
installed.
I don't care if Samsung prevents you from removing their camera app but
facebook doesn't have anything to do with Samsung so I should at least be able
to remove that.
~~~
kyrra
It's a matter of understanding how apps work on Android (at least today). When
apps come pre-installed ir can sometimes be part of the system partition, such
as Facebook is your example. Apps on the system partition cannot be uninstall,
but they can be disabled.
I believe Google has been working to make it so more apps are not in the
system partition, but it can be up to each phone manufacturer on how a bundle
apps.
------
xte
That's the joy of proprietary software, on proprietary hardware, in absence of
law that mandate for software to be open, toolchains needed to build and
install included and mandate hardware must be open and designed/produced by
different subject than software, like in some countries we mandate
communication network to be different subject from ISP selling service on top
of them.
Freedom must be preserved and when people start to do so dictatorship came
physiologically.
------
m3nu
It's ok to buy their cheap hardware, but I strongly recommend replacing the
software right away with e.g.
[https://download.lineageos.org/](https://download.lineageos.org/)
~~~
bcaa7f3a8bbc
Yes. Until Huawei started to lockdown the bootloader in recent phones!
~~~
trumped
It really stinks that there are barely any new phones available for purchase
with unlocked boot loaders... you have to rely on hacks to replace the
software that rapes your privacy.
~~~
reitanqild
I have a Nokia. I think keys to unlock most new models are available from
Nokia (was in my news a week or two ago.)
BTW: my phone was super cheap, like less than USD300, no strings attached. It
is great for most of what I use: mail, hn, local news, signal, slack,
telegram.
It's also part of the android one program so I expect it to receive updates
faster than my old phones.
The camera (or the camera software) has some real problems though: it's not as
good as my older samsung S7 and it sometimes freezes.
Maybe the slightly more expensive models have better cameras, mine was about
the cheapest reasonable phone I could get.
~~~
Fnoord
Certain Nokia Xperia can run SailfishOS.
~~~
reitanqild
I'm fairly certain Xperia is a Sony brand.
~~~
Fnoord
Yeah, but given we are complaining about data collection you can buy yourself
out with Sailfish OS for 50 EUR or install microG (such as with LineageOS).
I've done the latter on a FP2, but Sailfish OS would be a suitable
alternative.
------
taildrop
Every Chinese company is at least partially owned, controlled, or heavily
influenced by the Chinese government. It's just a fact of life given their
current system of government.
Ask yourself this question. Would you buy an iPhone if the US Government owned
a significant part of Apple? Or could shut down Apple at any time they wished?
Would you trust them not to provide your information to US law enforcement or
other government entities without due process under those conditions?
Then why would you purchase a phone manufactured by a Chinese company given
the same circumstances?
~~~
rhizome
_Every Chinese company is at least partially owned, controlled, or heavily
influenced by the Chinese government. It 's just a fact of life given their
current system of government._
Is this different than American companies who are at least partially funded
and/or influenced by the CIA? (Among other sources of government funding...)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-Tel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-
Tel)
~~~
rconti
I've worked for one IQT company and it couldn't have been more hands-off.
I haven't worked for a Chinese-backed company, though, so I can't say one way
or the other.
~~~
rhizome
I'm sure it could easily have been more hands-on, though. I think all
governments engage in this to some degree, or try to, or would like to. It's a
natural extension of power, control over the country, getting your hooks into
your dependencies. We see how rich people and companies have essentially
stopped contributing finanically to the running of the country, which isn't
free.
------
rathboma
I'd love to see this type of investigation done on a US model of their phones,
for example an Honor 8 pro.
------
da02
I have a family friend that is 70+ yr olds. Unfortunately, the best deal I
could find for him via his AT&T prepaid plan was a $70 Huawei Ascend XT2 @
Walmart (locked to AT&T). It's performance is great: fast charging, long-
lasting battery, 2G of RAM, and intuitive UI (despite being Huawei's custom
modifications of stock Android).
What are the best alternatives (in terms of security updates and privacy) for
Android phones with 2G of RAM and $100-$200 unlocked? The Ascend XT2 is so
great for non-power users, that I'm even willing to overlook Huawei's awful
practices for my next phone. All other phones are either too expensive or
never have official security patches released for the OS.
~~~
pdimitar
Your best bet is Xiaomi.
Go to gsmarena.com and click on the advanced finder and apply your filters.
You will be sorted in no time.
~~~
culot
Are there many low-end Xiaomi phones that support AT&T?
[https://www.frequencycheck.com/carrier-
compatibility/p5vW4/a...](https://www.frequencycheck.com/carrier-
compatibility/p5vW4/at-t-united-
states/devices?commit=Search&q%5Bdevice_brand_id_eq%5D=171&q%5Bfull_name_cont%5D=xiaomi&q%5Bs%5D=release_date+desc&utf8=%E2%9C%93)
I thought they were mostly not useful for US carriers?
~~~
da02
I have a Xiaomi Redmi 4G (codename: Dior) that is 3+ years old. It works on
T-Mobile.
That chart is helpful. I would also read the reviews of the phone and check if
the phone says "Global Edition" or "Global Version" to also check
compatibility.
I use the Mokee ROM. It gets regular updates. But, the Huawei Ascend XT2 feels
much faster with a longer-lasting battery.
------
pdimitar
This is unfortanate and I expected it for a while now. First OnePlus was
exposed a while ago, then Blu, then maybe a few other smaller ones (can't
remember, anybody has links?), and now Huawei... I have to wonder if the
companies aren't strong-armed by the Chinese government or they are all simply
the same kind of greedy shady private info dealers. So it's quite likely
Xiaomi will be exposed at some point as well.
I like Xiaomi. Owned two of their phones and it was the best ever Android
experience for me -- not because of the iOS look-alike-ness. The devices were
just very snappy, the default apps were very functional and comfortable to use
and the whole thing just worked pretty well out of the box. I was pretty
impressed, still am.
But I seriously don't trust the baseband vendors so I moved to the Apple
ecosystem. Now I am left wondering if Apple is simply not better at hiding it
if they are doing things like that (remember when they were caught recording
the phone screen's activity and sending it to Uber?)...
Are we better off at the Apple side? Or should we all be buying an Xperia X
and installing Sailfish OS on it?
~~~
emsy
I think you got that wrong. They allowed Uber to use the private API that
allowed screen recording. Apple didn't record the activity and send it to
Uber.
~~~
pdimitar
Thanks for the correction. You are right.
Still doesn't make it better though, wouldn't you agree?
~~~
saagarjha
Slightly, I’d say. The reason why Apple granted that entitlement was because
the Apple Watch API wasn’t powerful enough to perform some of the rendering
that Uber needed for their watch app, so they’d render it on iOS and send it
over in order to have an app available on launch day. The irresponsibility is
that Apple didn’t immediately revoke such access once they developed a
replacement API for this use case.
~~~
pdimitar
All of that definitely makes sense. It just makes me afraid what possibilities
does that open for Apple and any other corp they are willing to scratch of
back of. :(
It also makes you wonder what other kinds of these "entitlements" exist.
~~~
saagarjha
As far as entitlements go, I don’t think there are any others that Apple has
given out. Private API, though, has been approved by Apple for use in certain
apps.
------
jorblumesea
I really don't think many in the West understand how interconnected business
and government is in China. The scale at which companies work with the
government and how the government funds companies makes it very hard to trust
any Chinese company. China is the most opaque business world we can imagine
and Chinese military intelligence has deep connections to Chinese businesses.
They are two sides of the same coin, where Chinese military agents are even
implicated in attacks on Western companies to help their own corporations.
We will never be able to truly discern the true data sharing agreements they
have, and I think it's safer to ban Chinese communications companies from
working in the West until things change. It's clear China has no intention of
curbing bad behavior and the current approach is not working.
It is well understood that Chinese military officials carried out the Nortel
hacks and gave the IP to Huawei (and others). Nothing coming from China and no
Chinese company can be trusted.
~~~
dnomad
This is pure bullshit. The idea that Chinese companies and the government are
somehow fused has no basis in reality. But it's remarkable to watch people
push this sort of conspiracy theory. The exact same people will, when the
government cracks down on a company like Tencent, go on to claim that
companies are victims of the government.
~~~
jorblumesea
This rebuttal isn't rooted in reality. China's willingness to use state
resources to gain competitive advantages for its corporations is proven
without a shadow of a doubt.
------
craftyguy
Why would a, for example, US citizen be more concerned about a foreign
government spying on them than their own government? To play devil's advocate,
my government is in a much stronger position to harass me than some country I
may never visit again.
~~~
jldugger
To the best of my knowledge, the US government has not stolen corporate
secrets and forwarded them to their favored companies.
~~~
ivarv
The European Union's investigation into the ECHELON program found otherwise.
A high level overview is at
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns)
The actual EU report is available at:
[http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//...](http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+REPORT+A5-2001-0264+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN&language=EN)
~~~
adventured
Is there something actually proven and more comprehensive, than speculation
from two decades ago? Nearly all of the concerns listed in your Echelon link,
are political in nature (eg about Princess Diana, or the five eyes with Canada
spying on two British ministers for Britain in 1983), not examples of
industrial IP theft.
Baseless claims won't cut it. The US has had by far the world's largest
economy for the last two decades. There should be _dozens_ of legally proven -
court cases - examples of intellectual property theft far worse and larger
than anything China has done, given the scale difference of the economies over
that time and the supposed capacity to hoover up global communications and put
it to use in industrial espionage.
Saying that well: here's one example, or here's two examples across 30 years,
is not good enough to indict the world's largest and most technologically
advanced economy for being rampant industrial thieves. To show a comprehensive
pattern of deep industrial espionage, and to show that it isn't more along the
lines of routine espionage that occurs between any two great economic powers,
requires a lot more proof.
~~~
icebraining
_There should be dozens of legally proven - court cases - examples of
intellectual property theft far worse and larger than anything China has done,
given the scale difference of the economies over that time and the supposed
capacity to hoover up global communications and put it to use in industrial
espionage._
How many legally proven court cases against industrial espionage carried by
the Chinese State are there?
------
baybal2
This is data for app called SmartCare
It is not installed on Huawei phones made for export to capitalist countries,
but apparently the data collection part of the app has not been deleted, only
UI.
Smartcare is an analogue of google's creepy email scanning program that likes
to wake you at 1 am with "your outbound flight is coming in 3 hours" when it
isn't
~~~
milankragujevic
It is installed though, at least for Serbian phones.
------
jhabdas
Left and right are two wings of the same bird. What many seem to overlook in
posts like this is the simple fact that they're being controlled by an
authority and you allow that authority to take from you, even if you believe
you're doing it voluntarily because that's what everyone else does.
Remember, nothing is truly yours if you have to pay someone else for the right
to use it. The cost then for using a Huawei phone as a US citizen is they
spying will continue but at least more authoritarian governments (excuse me,
Democratic republics) gets a piece.
------
John_KZ
Eh. To be fair I'm torn between giving my local government the ability to
manipulate me vs giving a foreign power my data. I don't read Chinese-owned
news, I don't vote in China, I have nothing to do with them (well, except
having my electronics made there). So is it really worse when Huawei steals my
data instead of Google? At least with Huawei someone might care enough to stop
them.
~~~
Kadin
First, you have some level of recourse against agencies of your own
government, either directly or via the electoral process. They may or may not
have more interest in you than a foreign government, but that depends on what
you're doing. The type of people of interest to American intelligence agencies
is rather predictable and unimaginative.
Most Western governments do not engage in espionage for private-sector
economic gain. (Before the Chinese apologists show up: there have been
extremely limited examples, historically, including a few times when US
intelligence agencies became aware of spying or collusion on the part of
another party in negotiations with a US company and notified them. There is
not anything in the US that approaches the "same team" approach that the
Russians and the Chinese have.)
So even if you are not engaged in, say, assisting Tibetan independence
activists, the Chinese government might still be interested in your work
email, and there is reason to believe that any proprietary information might
get passed along to a Chinese competitor (in the Russian scenario, it's
probably more likely cybercriminal organizations who might sell it).
The type of user who should be concerned about Chinese or Russian hacking,
given the significant overlap between private industry (including criminal
organizations, particularly in Russia) and government intelligence, is much
more broad than the type of user who should be concerned about targeting by US
or European intelligence.
Middle Eastern countries are probably somewhere in the middle; they have what
appears to be more broad targeting than Western countries but still maintain
more of a firewall between industry and government than Russia/China. (That
said, the physical threat appears to be greater if you really are a person of
interest.)
------
Markoff
is this some wannabe hacker? it's pretty clear from those descriptions it's
something for their voice/smart assistant or organizing tool (hivoice, hiboard
or whatever, they have million names) which can scan you calendar, SMS and
other items to notify you about upcoming flight, train, movie in cinema etc
and remind you this or find friends (contacts) based on your location after
arriving to destination and they are very clear in their privacy policy about
what information how they use and how to opt out from submitting these
(sensitive) personal information
i work for several Chinese companies including Huawei, OPPO etc, all of them
have this assistant which scan also your SMS for package delivery info so they
can track your package and provide you with simplified information in form of
cards, i guess closest western equivalent would be Google assistant (never
used either), though personally my Honor phone is running Lineage without
gapps, because i don't like western/Chinese spyware and most importantly
unnecessary battery eaters
------
diminish
Huawei is the rising star in smartphone shipments together with Lenovo and
Xiaomi. I see more HN posts against China directed at Huawei than others? Why?
~~~
icebraining
Maybe it's not just anti-Chinese bias, and Huawei really is worse than others?
~~~
diminish
Maybe - yet recently I see all around youtube, and social media some anti-
China build up. I have never been to the country and have nothing to do but
just curious [1]. if there's kind of an orchestrated campaign against Chinese
economy. I had the same impression from Russia after Ukrainian revolt when
hundreds of channels/users have popped up out of nowhere on social media. I
feel some people are doing the same against China as part of the trade wars,
and conservationist policies.
[1] One example:
[https://www.youtube.com/user/NTDChinaUncensored](https://www.youtube.com/user/NTDChinaUncensored)
~~~
icebraining
I'm not saying there isn't. But that doesn't explain why Huawei is more
attacked than other Chinese companies, which was your question.
~~~
diminish
..most likely Huawei was also very active in network and mobile infrastructure
and they may be more prone to state sponsored hackery. I also forgot ZTE..
------
theclaw
Betteridge’s law applies. The guy found a database of train stations, car
parks and airports - so what? When it finds you’re nearby it tells the cloud
service which presumably grabs your tickets or something, like a geofence. The
location data is not ‘user’ location data, it’s point-of-interest map data,
and the ‘name’ he found is probably the name of the POI. What a joke.
[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines)
------
rilut
Xiaomi Mi A1 also has app named Spock (com.miui.spock) which cannot be
disabled/uninstalled
------
a-dub
looks to me like he found a google now type facility that triggers actions
based on locations?
------
TACIXAT
Second link I've seen from threader. All the images are broken on mobile
(Android, Firefox). Can we link to the original?
~~~
21
The links are also broken on desktop Firefox/Chrome.
~~~
ronaldl93
Works fine here
------
chocochip
I think it's a bit sad and funny that the tech industry still seem concerned
with this, but when the most extreme cases of data collection are exposed,
namely Edward Snowden and Cambridge Analytica, little was done by the people
or by organizations to ask for action.
Everybody moved on to the next big headline and every now and then people will
shout and complain about "privacy" without actually saying what should be
done.
Also, GDPR which I see as an actual attempt to make this whole mess a bit more
organized became just a modern version of "I accept the terms and conditions".
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Subsets and Splits
No community queries yet
The top public SQL queries from the community will appear here once available.