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Kent Sorenson: The tea party hero who lost everything - orf https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/09/21/kent-sorenson-was-a-tea-party-hero-then-he-lost-everything-220522 ====== orf Political posts are quite rightly frowned upon here, but I think this story is excellent. It focuses more on the incarceration aspect than the pure political side of it, and his views on jail after experiencing it first hand are very interesting. The commonplace quid-pro-quo political dealings are also pretty shocking, especially when you contrast the minimal punishment those involved received (Kent included) against the people he met whilst in jail. ~~~ lisper I think it's relevant because it's about discovering truth: "Sorenson, the Republican state senator and Tea Party superstar with a clear path to Congress, had heard about disparities in sentencing. He had read about the statistical inequalities and crooked economics that are foundational to the American prison system. He had watched the demonstrators on television chanting about the devastation wreaked on minority communities by mass incarceration. And he didn’t buy any of it." This, in microcosm, is one of the biggest problems we face: large numbers of citizens who believe in things that are not true, and the subsequent normalization of conspiracy theories and the disparagement of defending truth as mere _political_ disagreement. Sooner or later, the truth will win, whether it's about the conditions of our prisons, or the laws of economics, or the consequences of climate change. The longer we try to deny this the less pleasant it will be when it happens. ~~~ maxxxxx This is the problem with a lot of political activists that get into the media . They get famous not because of their well thought out positions but because of their charisma. There are way too many people who have a huge following on TV, Twitter or elsewhere who espouse positions that make no sense. They never need to examine their beliefs because they have a lot of followers who affirm them without thinking. There are quite a few stories about people who publicly had a strong opinion about something and quickly changed their view once they got first hand experience with that matter. ~~~ trendia > They get famous not because of their well thought out positions but because > of their charisma Studies have shown that people trust pundits with gumption, not well-thought out or balanced ideas. Superforecasting, one of my favorite books, discusses this at great depth: the people with the greatest foresight and ability to predict future political events are the _least_ trusted or respected, since they often don't have clear and easily-identifiable positions, but rather make all sorts of caveats and restrictions on their beliefs. This makes their arguments more complicated and less easily broken down during a shouting match on live TV, so viewers don't believe them as much and instead focus on the pundits with the clear, singular, loud opinions instead. Unfortunately, those pundits are often wrong, their opinions lack nuance, and their political forecasts are worthless. ------ orf Not quite sure how I feel about this being summarily ripped down from the front page, especially given the contents of the article. Was this removed based on the title alone? ~~~ dtf It's still on the front page. ~~~ orf It was re-added. Perhaps it was flagged, but it was certainly removed for a time. ------ patrickg_zill Note that the the DNC and RNC both participate in this at the national level, and likely in other states also. And only a few have gone to jail...	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Google will remove misleading election-related autocompletes - hhs https://www.engadget.com/google-block-autocomplete-fake-news-elections-194145543.html ====== verdverm They already removed "joe biden gaffe" for me. I'm more suspect that they are manipulating autocomplete for their political preferences... on an individual / geography level, because I pair auto completed with a friend a number of things and we had inconsistent results	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Facebook Falls from Grace, and Investors’ Stock Holdings Tumble Too - Sonnol53 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/29/business/facebook-stock.html ====== landcoctos Facebook and many many other tech companies are built on gathering as much data they can on their users. Should people revolt (hint: they probably won't) tech is in for a world of hurt. ~~~ Sonnol53 No I think the decision makers should take responsibility for harm it has caused and acknowledge the dangers of these platforms and make modifications accordingly.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Immersed oil cooling for data-centres? - AnotherHustler I've seen some eccentric examples of oil cooling for desktop PCs, however this startup is doing the same thing for datacenters - http://asperitas.com/<p>Does anyone have any experience in this space?<p>Aside from cost reduction, the elephant in the room is ease of server hardware maintenance. If the dead server has been immersed in oil then it's a messy job to replace components. Also, I'm wondering about the oil itself degrading components - for example, I think oil eats network cables?<p>I'm wondering if this might be the next big thing? Or just a hassle? ====== chha No intimate knowledge of this, but as with anything it's the economics that will decide if this is the next big thing or not. James Hamilton did a writeup on the economics of running a datacenter a few years back[1], and concluded that approximately 1/3 of the montly expenses are for power, distribution and cooling. If immersive cooling doesn't significantly reduce the lifetime of components and doesn't add costs (additional mops?) enough to offset the reduction, there is no reason why it shouldn't be useful for most datacenters. Intel was working on this a few years back [2], and as far as I can tell the Cray 2 used immersive cooling for some components in the mid-80s. [1] - [http://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2010/09/overall-data- center...](http://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2010/09/overall-data-center- costs/) [2] - [https://www.technologyreview.com/s/429179/intel-servers- take...](https://www.technologyreview.com/s/429179/intel-servers-take-a-deep- dive-to-cool-off/) ------ brudgers Oil immersion is commonly used for transformers in power distribution systems. The cylindrical transformers on power poles are cylindrical for the same reasons beer cans are, it's a good shape for holding liquids. In commercial buildings it is also not uncommon for transformers to be immersed in oil. But oil's flammability creates substantial fire hazard and modern building codes address this by limiting the density at which the oil in transformers can be distributed; specifying fire resistant separation; and other substantial hazard mitigations as the hazard increases. Since the oil around servers burns just like the oil around transformers, there probably won't be any special exception for oil immersed servers in the building code any time soon. So I'd bet against large commodity data center installations...a state sponsored agency's data center might be another matter.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Modern monetary theory: the rise of economists who say government de (cont) - whack https://theconversation.com/modern-monetary-theory-the-rise-of-economists-who-say-huge-government-debt-is-not-a-problem-141495 ====== rossdavidh I know this sounds boring and old-fashioned, but whether government debt is a good or a bad thing, would depend a lot on what it was doing with the money it borrowed. If it spent it on repairing aging dams that were about to burst, bridges that needed repairs, and roads that have become unable to bear the traffic they are meant to, they could be a very wise decision. If they are used to build dams where none are needed, bridges to nowhere, and re-pave roads that are already fine, then they are not good. It is not so much the amount of debt that matters (for a sovereign state like the UK that is able to borrow in its own currency), but what the money (and thus the labor and real materials the money is used to purchase) is used to do. ------ alpineidyll3 No government in power now has shown any desire to allow inflation, and in the absence of inflation central bank spending only benefits the wealthy basically by tautology. Even proponents would admit it must without taxing the wealthy. Proponents of mmt imagine a "new deal 2.0" what they will get is even worse inequality, followed by social upheaval. Virtually all of the balance sheet expansion the us fed has engaged in since qe has only enriched bondholders. Mmt is nothing but an excuse for easy policies. It's like a slim fast shake treatment for heart disease and I can't wait for it to go away. ------ csense > The only limit, according to this view, is if inflation starts to rise, in > which case the solution is to increase taxes. But that's the problem. Spend too much, and you'll be paying for it later, with either ruinous inflation or ruinous taxes.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich - happy-go-lucky http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20180709-unlike-most-millennials-norways-are-rich ====== franciscop As a Spaniard who has discussed this in lenght with many other Europeans[1], it really seems like the US is the main country with the University debt issue. I also really believe that "score inflation" is a big issue mainly in the US. If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! [2] In Spain, Germany, France, Italy, etc if you get a degree in STEM it means you put a lot of effort. It is easier to study than for our parents, so there's a more competition. But the requirements to finish the degree have not changed so drastically as in the US so going to University is quite a good choice. [1] oddly enough I have never discussed this with british people [2] Edit: I'm not talking about a zero-sum game; I'm talking about degrees becoming easier. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Relevant: [https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/01/same-p...](https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/01/same- performance-better-grades/384447/) Note: I'm talking about STEM, which is what I know best. Other degrees/no degrees is catastrophic in Spain as you can see on the news. ~~~ Latty > If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes > pointless! Only if the value of a degree is having an edge over others, not if it's value is learning - primary school isn't pointless even though most people master it. This feels like it links back to the same problem as everything else - as time goes on automation removes less skilled jobs, and more and more people will need to do more skilled jobs. This means that at some point, university levels of education will probably become necessary for any employment - at that point (and arguably before), asking people to pay for education they _need_ to be a functional member of society seems inherently broken. Of course, the other option is just to accept that maybe in the future not _everyone_ needs to work, or certainly not _everyone_ needs to work a full time job. Unfortunately for America, the idea of anyone not working as a "freeloader" is so heavily ingrained into the public consciousness, it seems likely people will just be left to suffer (even if they are "freeloading" off the labour of machines). Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if when we reach that point, people who can't do that level of work are defined as disabled in some way to "justify" it. Or, worse, arbitrary jobs that aren't needed, but are created just to employ them. ~~~ chx > This means that at some point, university levels of education will probably > become necessary for any employment My father had been the safety laboratory lead at a Hungarian pharmeutical company from 1989 till his retirement about ten years ago (could be a little less). What he told me about has stuck with me: when he started, he could hire people from vocational high schools but by the end, everything they used became so complex he could only hire people with university degrees. ~~~ pnutjam If that is the case, I think revamping the high school requirements would be a better investment. ~~~ jopsen The problem is that today's generations are joining companies that are heavily specialized. Unlike previous generations which could learn while the company learned. There are some vocational coding schools, but these won't prepare you to do real computer science. There are some vocational carpentry schools with increased focus on AutoCad and other analytical skills. But these won't equipt you to design bridges.. ~~~ labcomputer That's true, but it feels like the HS curriculum has gotten easier, too, and that might be part of the reason that a high school diploma isn't valued by employers. My perception (anecdata!) is that helicopter parenting has badgered the faculty such that my niece and nephew have a lower bar than I did for any given letter grade (and that I had it easier than some of my much older cousins). Another point is that HS graduation rates in the United States have been basically flat (after a long, steady increase) since the 1970's [1], despite constant calls to increase it. When more than 9 of 10 people already have HS diplomas; when the economic condition of each student's family is highly predictive of graduation; and when and each school tends to have a fairly homogeneous characteristics, it's hard for me to see how you can raise graduation rates _without_ lowering the bar. Unless you're open to adjusting the economic condition around under- performing schools, of course. [1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States) ~~~ dragonwriter > That's true, but it feels like the HS curriculum has gotten easier, too, and > that might be part of the reason that a high school diploma isn't valued by > employers. Since the early 1990s, what was then a fairly advanced college prep track for math seems to have become the baseline standard, and graduation requirements have increased in other ways. Compared to comparably-named classes, grading or presentation may have become less rigorous, but the baseline curriculum is more advanced, not less. ~~~ StanislavPetrov I'd have to disagree. My niece attends one of the top-rated high schools in the country. I recently perused her summer reading list and was astonished that the vast majority of them were books for children. Reading comprehension and writing proficiency are much, much lower than they were just a few decades ago, across all levels of schooling. ~~~ pnutjam Memory can be tricky. You need some data, not anecdotes. ~~~ jessaustin Lots of us remember reading e.g. Shakespeare and Faulkner in high school. If the most challenging material they're reading now is Rowling (or whatever GP means by "books for children"), that is data. ~~~ pnutjam Yeah, lots of people "remember" doing things when they were sixteen or seventeen, or maybe even 12 or 13, but the memory gets murkier. In my experience, it's very easy for people to remember something they did at a given age fondly, and push it for their kids at a earlier age inadvertently. Memory is a tricky thing. I wouldn't be surprised if you aren't comparing today's 13 year old to your 16 year old self inadvertently. ~~~ jessaustin I can't believe you're really quibbling over the possibility that some high schools assign Shakespeare... ------ angarg12 As the article points out, the economic miracle of Norway is fueled by oil and gas, just like Spain economic miracle was fueled by cheap industrial labour and construction decades ago. Unlike Spain, they have been wise enough to use their money to diversify their economy, aware that this won't last forever. Sadly there are few lessons we can learn and apply here to other countries, as not everyone has a tiny population and literally sits on mountains of money. Still I'm looking forward to see if their efforts pay off, and we don't find that the next generation of norwegians have a drop of 30% in their disposable income with respect to their parents. ~~~ massysett "the economic miracle of Norway is fueled by oil and gas" It can't be that simple. Plenty of other countries have lots of oil and gas (Russia, Venezuela, the US) and they aren't necessarily having economic miracles. ~~~ jaredklewis The lesson of Norway is how to manage a valuable natural resource. I.e. Don't sell it off in a one time auction to the highest bidder who then reaps all the gains. Norway tightly controls access to its oil and the profits have been very well managed. I agree that other nations like Venezuela and the US have squandered their natural wealth when compared with Norway's careful management. That being said, I agree with the parent that the aforementioned lesson isn't particularly universal, as a perquisite is having a plentiful and valuable natural resource to manage. So what lesson can a country like the UK or Germany take from Norway, given their natural resources are, for the most part, already exploited? ------ jopsen Affordable education is probably a big part of how they do this. In northern Europe it is a clear political decision to invest in education. You'll politicians argue that we can't afford not to educate our teenagers, as it would make the welfare state unsustainable. Also, huge credit to Norway for how it handled it's olie money :) ~~~ endymi0n In my not so humble opinion, it all comes down to a short- vs. farsighted culture and the resulting fundamental attitude towards kids. In the US, kids are seen at worst a nuisance and at best a personal luxury. In most of the northern/western EU, kids are seen as the future workers, decision makers and keepers of the whole economy 30 years into the future. All of the symptoms you are seeing, be it maternal / paternal leave, financial support for parents, universal health care at least for kids, (mostly) free education — from child care up to college level — how teachers are selected and paid and much more are resulting from this attitude. There's downsides, such as a high tax level, but observations like this one show that America is slowly coming into the age where you see the longterm effects of neglecting its treasure and letting inequality explode rampantly. ~~~ maxxxxx "In the US, kids are seen at worst a nuisance and at best a personal luxury." That's nonsense. The US is all about children. That doesn't result in long term thinking about their education or maternal/parental leave but children are not seen as a nuisance. ~~~ pfranz I see both perspectives. As a culture that supports kids the US is way behind on maternity/paternity leave, childcare, leisure time overall, healthcare, higher level education. I see the increase in recent generations leaving religion has created a gap in social support, too (not sure how this maps to places other than the US). The US has a huge consumer culture for kids; suburbs are one way for kids to grow up, cheap toys and entertainment. Movies and entertainment have notoriously targeted PG-13 in recent decades because they're the largest audience (most free time and disposable income). I feel like in the US a century ago there were incentives to have more kids; need for labor, childhood mortality. These incentives have gone away and disincentives have taken their place; women entering the workforce, educating children until their mid-20s before entering the workforce as a career, and little things like the costs needed to raise a child[1]. We haven't really changed anything to improve those disincentives and the results speak for themselves. People are having fewer kids later in life. [1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_(boys)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_$boys$) ------ Deestan While not as bad off as the US, we are still seeing similar trends. They still can't afford to buy apartments until their 30s if they have good jobs, while their parents bought houses at the age of 20 working as factory drones. ~~~ mockingbirdy There are a ton of reasons. \- Adolescence lasts longer (until mid-20s) which means that people don't grow up so fast anymore. Why? Because of the wealth of the societies they live in. \- More people study. Many are around 25-27 when they finally start to work. \- Real wages didn't increase although inflation did. \- The workforce is divided: Too many marketing experts, but a shortage of craftsmen. Too many people want jobs where they just sit in an office. \- Some millennials have seen that their parents work insanely hard; they don't want to repeat their mistakes and miss important aspects of life. They value their time more and accept compromises in their salaries. \- Many young people lack money management skills. Delayed gratification is very hard to learn if you're used to a certain type of living. \- Real estate gets used as an investment opportunity which drives housing prices up. This wasn't so drastic when other more profitable investment opportunities existed. \- The job market is professionalized and more efficient, degrees get valued highly but lack their former signal effect because everyone has a degree. Therefore it's harder to find good opportunities. You need more skills and more luck to succeed in this system. We can't just say "The previous generation had more", we have to analyze thoroughly _why_ they could pay for a mortgage in their early 20s and how their lifestyles differed. I'm around 20y/o in Europe and I think $60k is a low salary for someone in their 30s (with work experience of 10-15 years). I can make $10k in a good month without any degree. Maybe millennials should learn to negotiate better and demonstrate real business value to their employers. I know many people who make €7-15k (which is a top-10%/top-5% salary in Germany) who are in their 20s or early 30s. I think many don't understand how money works and that money is just a number. So few people think strategically about their salaries and just accept their circumstances. ~~~ antpls > I think many don't understand how money works and that money is just a > number. So few people think strategically about their salaries and just > accept their circumstances. You should be more humble. You are on an "hacker" website. Did someone say we can't hack money? If you earn 10k a month, that's great, what about sharing it among the people who didn't have the same luck than you? People aren't born with the same information environment and legacy. Some people can afford to take risks and earn even more while some simply cannot. ~~~ mockingbirdy > what about sharing it among the people who didn't have the same luck than > you? That's one big thing what taxes are for: To redistribute wealth. And I have employees which earn good money. I don't know what you expect from me. > Some people can afford to take risks and earn even more while some simply > cannot. That's why a solid social system is so important. It gives us the room to take risks because we can be sure that we can get food, shelter and healthcare. See [1]. [1]: [https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU](https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU) ~~~ mockingbirdy > Some people can afford to take risks and earn even more while some simply > cannot. I would like to know what you mean specifically. When you are jobless, the German system gives you enough to rent an apartment and eat something. It's not luxurious, but it's better than those anti-social systems like those in the US. You don't have to worry about getting enough food. When these basic needs are met, you are free to open your mind. Most people don't - even those that have jobs - and I think that's pretty sad. Many people accept the pointless work and shitty environments because the fear of social decline is so big in their heads. I think most of those points you talk about can be changed on the psychological level. Money doesn't necessarily change this, it's a mindset. ~~~ antpls When I talk about environment and legacy, I talk about your parents, your grand-parents and your grand-grand-parents. If you are born Germans and your parents are Germans since generations, there are higher chances they teached you how the system works since the first day. It's probable they accumulated a social network of friendly lawyers, politicians, or any other persons the system already rewarded, and told you what to do to make sure you keep your privileges and protect the system. Trusting the system when you are a foreigner is way more difficult, especially when you know no one. You can't compare the lifestyle of someone who lives with $10k/month with someone who is clueless and, because of lack of information and ressources, cannot defend his/her own human rights. We are not born equal, if your parents are richer than mines, you are probably privileged before we even proved our skills. ~~~ mockingbirdy There are many assumptions in your comment - maybe I can provide some anecdata: My mother is from india (so I know what you mean with the problems for foreigners) and my parents were not wealthy for a long time. They still aren't extremely wealthy and I can make more money than my parents combined (but without that job security). All they've told me was how important education is. But I've dropped out of college anyways. I wasn't very good in school. I didn't care. I agree with you in general, but not everyone who's able to achieve something got it naturally. My father works 50-70 hours a week and he was the best in school because he had no other chance to study otherwise (he wasn't allowed to get a degree and needed the best grades to get an exception; GDR was a hostile place for intelligent people). My grandfather worked since he was 13 (this was shortly after the war; his father died). I'm not the type of person who thinks that the world owes anyone anything. I've learned about how the system works in economics classes in school (we had a very good teacher who showed us the BS in the world) and through psychology books. There are many money-poor people who give their children the opportunity to grow. As I've said: Many times, it isn't about money and privilege. It's about attitude and mindset - a specific mindset can lead to privileges. Not taking anything for granted, for example. Not immerse oneself in self-pity. \- - - I still agree with you in general, because the numbers are very clear about it: Social mobility is very low in Germany. Most poor people have other problems holding them back e.g. some parents were abused in their childhood, so they're unable to give proper emotional support. Many are jealous of the opportunities their kids have (not because they're bad people, but because they never felt loved). Escaping those vicious cycles is extremely hard and we're currently not doing enough to change it. But I still think that our current system enables people who value education and have a certain mental health to move upwards - much better than the system in the US. You don't need to be rich to get good education here or accumulate big debt. ------ dotdi I'm from the generation mentioned in this article and IMHO, in the developed countries, people like me are poorer than their parents because the rich are getting richer and the "poor", including the middle class, are getting poorer as a direct consequence. I live in central Europe, have a STEM masters degree, my wife a bachelors degree (but is a stay at home mom) and, if we were to buy a house now, I'd be happy if I paid it off by the time I retire. I'm not living in a big city or an upscale neighborhood. That's just how it is. ~~~ mockingbirdy > the rich are getting richer and the "poor", including the middle class, are > getting poorer as a direct consequence. This is correct. That's the reason we have to close the loop holes that make it possible that high-net-worth individuals evade taxes. Unfortunately, kids are very expensive, some say you have to budget €250k for each kid in total (until they start earning their own money). Most people make approx. €1.25 million in their lifetime, so this is a pretty big part of their lifetime spending (retirement needs another €200-300k). I agree that it's not easy. I hope that we will be able to solve this problem. Good luck! edit: removed financial advice. ~~~ mockingbirdy Would love to know why this gets downvotes. I'm merely reiterating studies on lifetime income and children expenses. Would love to know if I'm relying on wrong data (although the studies are pretty clear about lifetime income). ------ bufferoverflow Norway is a very special case. A small country with lots of oil, fish, and a small population (just 5.2 million). They would have to go really wrong to be poor. ~~~ oblio Norway was rich on a global scale before oil. ~~~ yesforwhat Not by European standards ~~~ oblio Careful with that statement, you forgot Europe also has Eastern Europe :) ------ skookumchuck "Norway’s huge oil and gas sector is the clear driving factor behind the nation’s economic boom over the last three decades" And there it is - a nation sitting on black gold is wealthy. ~~~ ethelward Like Venezuela, for instance? You can't deny that Norway adopted a peculiar way of managing its good fortune, IMHO far better that what you can find in Russia, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, etc. It's the only “oil” state I know to be so good at it. ~~~ throw2016 This perspective completely misses the politics and history of these countries. Colonialism, interference from external powers, exploitative capitalism, being caught in the middle of the 'great game' can all derail any natural resource wealth like in Venezuela. Saudi Arabia is a very unique history and continues to exist as a feudal regressive regime with global support and approval while Saddam, Gaddafi and Assad who would be Mother Teresa in comparison to the Saudis in terms of women's rights and religious freedom get the full 'human rights demonization treatment' with their countries and people in tatters. 50 years later people may well wonder why these countries are so 'backward' with no context of what happened to them. Russia is nearly an entire continent with a dramatic history and is unique in nearly every way. ~~~ jessaustin One might have expected Russia, at least, to have the sort of history of sophisticated socialism that would prepare a nation to wisely distribute the spoils of petroleum exploitation... ------ chiefalchemist Perhaps I read / skimmed too fast but I felt there wasn't enough mentioned about buying power. Income without context is meaningless. Making $100k in NYC or London is not the same as $100k in Costa Rica, etc. It's not what you make that matters. It's the ratio between income and living / life costs. ~~~ flurdy Post tax spendable income gives an indication on real income: * [http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Cost-of-livin...](http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Cost-of-living/Average-monthly-disposable-salary/After-tax) * [https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/disposable-income-map...](https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/disposable-income-map_n_6924568) General cost of living data for Norway: * [http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/Norway/Cos...](http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/Norway/Cost-of-living) As well as the Big Mac index as ball park cost indicator: * [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index) ~~~ chiefalchemist Thanks. Much appreciated. Shame the article lacked this context. ------ stefs as a side note, this made me remember an article i read a couple of years ago: [https://www.ft.com/content/99680a04-92a0-11de-b63b-00144feab...](https://www.ft.com/content/99680a04-92a0-11de-b63b-00144feabdc0) "The Iraqi who saved Norway from oil", the story about the young iraqi oil engineer farouk al-kasim, who helped shape norways oil industry into what it is today. ~~~ Nimitz14 Thank you very much for sharing! That was very interesting. ------ jopsen The world is more complex then ever before, is it possible that current generations are behind financially because they needed a longer education? Is it possible that this will pay off in the long run? Just wondering, if maybe we're focusing on a phenomenon that haven't played itself out yet. Unless, of course we haven't educated enough of the current generation. ------ mtgx > _Aarnes’ hourly pay starts at 164 Norwegian kroner (around $20), increasing > for weekend and evening shifts. After taxes (which are comparatively high in > Scandinavia) he’s left with around 14,000 kroner ($1700) a month, of which > he sets aside half for rent, travel and bills and uses the rest for > “whatever else” he likes._ The likely reason why he can earn this much with a supermarket job is because _everyone else_ has more disposable income, which means it's easier to make products more expensive and to afford to pay higher salaries for such jobs. I think there have been at least a few studies in the past few years that show just how important it is for an economy for _everyone_ to have decent amounts of disposable income. It means there are more consumers who can afford more types of products = a healthier economy. A healthier economy with more spread-out rather than consolidated companies, means the companies are also more willing to pay higher/more competitive salaries, as opposed to if only a handful of companies dominated the economy. In the U.S., the middle-class has been drained out of disposable income. Recent reports have shown that something like 60% of the country can't afford a "$500 emergency". That is likely due to several reasons: 1) the crazy situation with student debt that the U.S. has gotten itself into (I believe it's because the government _guaranteed_ the loans, which made it easier for universities to keep increasing the prices, but what's important is that the situation exists and must be fixed/ended) 2) the crazy healthcare system that leaves almost everyone financially bankrupt if they have a more significant health issue, or they just can't afford to pay for full coverage. Again, U.S. is just about the only country that has this problem. 3) the rising (negotiation) power of mega-corporations, who are allowed to become ever larger, and the fact that they can outsource workers from abroad almost at will. They have just about obliterated any negotiation power workers have in the U.S., which also means most workers get little pay and they can't hope for too many salary increases over the years (even to cover for the _real_ inflation, not the "low" inflation the government keeps talking about but doesn't jive with how fast product prices are rising in the economy). There are also studies showing that basically since the 70's the _real salary_ has stayed the same and hasn't increased with productivity at all. The salaries of CEOs and the payout to shareholders on the other hand have skyrocketed. ~~~ alkonaut > The likely reason why he can earn this much with a supermarket job is > because everyone else has more disposable income, which means it's easier to > make products more expensive and to afford to pay higher salaries for such > jobs. Prices also show this. If you want to go get a couple of beers in Oslo you’ll find $10-15 to be normal in central parts of town ($10 average for the city). Nominal wages don’t say much. Purchase power does. ~~~ tonfa Beer might be a bad example, isn't alcohol generally very expensive in Scandinavian countries? (Though indeed cost of living is probably on the higher side) ~~~ alkonaut Yes half of or more of the unreasonable $15 beer is likely taxes. But that pizza slice you take with it is another $15... ~~~ NightlyDev $15 is more like a portion sized pizza, not a slice. ------ known Norway FTW Free public parking to Electric vehicles Govt distributes 1000 copies of every book published to libraries Police officers are trained in Higher Education for 3 years Tuition free education to everybody in the World ~~~ guessmyname > _Tuition free education to everybody in the World_ Wait what? If this is true, why is not everyone studying in Norway? > _At this point in time, the University of Oslo only offers bachelor studies > where Norwegian language proficiency is a prerequisite to be qualified for > admission. Applicants who can document that they are already proficient in > the Norwegian language, may apply for bachelor programmes at the University > of Oslo via NUCAS (Samordna opptak)._ > — [https://www.uio.no/english/studies/admission/bachelor- > progra...](https://www.uio.no/english/studies/admission/bachelor- > programmes.html) Ah! That's why. You need to know Norwegian before applying _(at least at UiO)_. I wish I knew about these international study programs when I was younger. ------ novaRom Not just rich, but 'equally' rich. ~~~ joshmn Weird how in America that simple, fundamental idea is so seemingly fly toxic. ------ marvin I think we're doing a lot of stuff right in Scandinavia/Norway, if optimizing for the average quality of life rather than personal freedoms is what you consider right. (I do, but not without critical analysis -- if it happens to appear otherwise from this post, I am actually very happy living here, but the lack of a critical eye in national media feels a bit oppressive sometimes). What has become clear to me reading HN and other US-centric news sources, is that this is in fact a deliberate tradeoff. Certainly it's a multi-dimensional continuum that can be better or worse in certain areas, but it's not just a question of other countries not discovering the path to such a society. It's also a deliberate choice that has consequences many voters in other cultures would not accept. The flip-side of the equality question is that the ability to excel diminishes. Everyone gets good (although rarely best-in-the-world) free healthcare and a strong social safety net, but taxes are very high. If you have the means, there are many things you might want to do that are not allowed to. E.g. building/expanding your property the way you want, or living off investment income (requires >50% more capital than elsewhere due to taxes, and that's assuming a low middle-class consumption). Society is not without its issues, and there are certainly some power struggles going on in various areas - e.g. regarding the employment terms for public-sector employees, the ability of large worker groups to get good employment terms etc. There is some degree of hidden institutional corruption, and I suspect that there is a degree of wage collusion that would not be accepted in the US. The tax system strongly favors real-estate investments, which means that property is very expensive and average household-debt-to income ratio is >220%. The oil, energy and fish industries are certainly strong enablers the social safety net, e.g. with oil companies paying 78% tax on profits, and with similar scheme for the hydropower companies. I've written about some details of the Norwegian economic system and welfare net on HN before, if you happen to be interested. Consulting vs. being securely employed: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17001133](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17001133) Summary of taxes: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14828357](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14828357) Begging and homelessness: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15169167](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15169167) Taxation of real estate vs. company ownership: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14828227](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14828227) The law of Jante, or the skepticism towards people who try to excel: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13914084](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13914084) Balancing capital gains tax and taxes on company earnings: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17277429](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17277429) Free health care and the social safety net, in the context of whether "making the free choice" to "rent out your body" should be legal: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17475051](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17475051) ------ cosmic_ape >>Employers will also have to be more open to attracting international talent to fill the jobs created outside its oil and gas sector, she suggests. On the other hand, young Norwegians “used to being able to work wherever they like” may need to become increasingly “focused on where the skills are needed”... So she means that while the population is well educated, many do not choose the "right" education? ~~~ NightlyDev There is a lot of students in Norway who studies what they want with no plan at all when it comes to work. Eg. a lot of students are studying finance and management or maybe history, but there is basically no demand compared to the supply. ------ mockingbirdy I'm seriously impressed: See the national debt of Norway (34.33% of GDP) - this is insanely low for developed countries. For comparison: US - 107.40%, Germany - 61.51% [https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/norway](https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/norway) [https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedstates](https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedstates) [https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/germany](https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/germany) \- - - Another important measurement is the Gini coefficient [1] which shows us if the wealth is distributed equally (G = 0% means everyone gets the same; G = 100% means one person has everything). Norway: G = 27.5% US: G = 48% (this means 1% owns half the wealth) Germany: G = 28.9% after taxes (G = 49% before taxes). This shows how big the impact of taxes is for a fair distribution of wealth. Unfortunately, it's known that high-net-worth individuals have options to extract wealth without paying taxes. But I think they don't necessarily do themselves a favor because they simultaneously destroy the society they enjoy and depend on. [https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/gini-index-wb- data.html](https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/gini-index-wb-data.html) [https://www.statista.com/statistics/219643/gini- coefficient-...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/219643/gini-coefficient- for-us-individuals-families-and-households/) [http://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution- database.htm](http://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm) [https://www.gut-leben-in- deutschland.de/static/LB/indicators...](https://www.gut-leben-in- deutschland.de/static/LB/indicators/income/gini-coefficient-income/) [1]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient) ~~~ marvin Did your sources distinguish Norway's Gini coefficient before and after taxes? My impression is that marginal taxation here is massive, since we have a sales tax of 25% (consumption tax, effectively), high taxes on luxury goods (cars especially), wealth tax of 0.85% of net worth every year and capital gains tax of 30% with no exemption for long-term holdings. The marginal tax rate on income is 46% IIRC, but your employer has already paid 14% of your salary in employment tax before you're paid. On top of this is property taxes, fees to local government, annual car tax etc. If you make a complete assessment of the taxes a high-earning, high-spending person pays, it can easily surpass 70% of all income. ~~~ Applejinx "wealth tax of 0.85% of net worth every year" Interesting. That's very much in line with what my experiments showed: just on a computer model of incredibly primitive 'economics', you can use an incredibly tiny wealth tax to redistributive effect. I think you can even ditch a lot of sales, income tax etc. if you're prepared to do a wealth tax. It seems to be very effective but this is the first I've heard of it actually being done anywhere. ~~~ sobani The Netherlands also have it, sort of. It started of as a 30% capital gains tax, but at some point the government was like: "Math is hard, let's pretend 4% return on capital." and we effectively ended up with a 1.2% wealth tax. In the last few years they realized that wealthier people have a higher return on capital and the effective wealth tax is more progressive with an effective wealth tax of ~1.6% at the highest bracket. ------ fulafel Norway is the only oil economy that has managed to avoid the resource curse. ~~~ dredmorbius The U.S. might be another, no? ~~~ fulafel US was until recently a net importer of oil, so it's sort of a lite oil economy. Norway is exporting $50+B/year worth of oil industry products with a population of 5 million people and this has been going on for a long time. ~~~ dredmorbius The US has extracted more oil than any other country on Earth, full stop. It was a net exporter from the 1860s through 1950. It had surplus extraction capacity until 1972. And yet, no resource curse? ~~~ fulafel Ots the $$ per capita in (un/underrefined) exports that does it. Oil was cheap pre-50s and us has a big population. I can't be bothered to look up the figure but i bet it was much smaller than Norway's $$/capita figure. ~~~ dredmorbius Possibly. I don't have an answer, but the question's an interesting one. Accounts of early US oil history and sudden and capricious wealth, particularly in Pennsylvania, Texas, California, etc., are fascinating. ------ 67_45 The success of Norway lies with the intelligence of of it's population. People attribute it to this or that, some institution or policy. But in reality policies and institutions are concievee of, built, and maintained by the sentiment of the people. They are smart people and they will always be well off considering their circumstances as long as that is true. Furthermore, the intelligence and well-being of the population of every country is the sole source of their outcomes. Endless ruminations on other, higher level things are a complete waste of time. ~~~ blindwatchmaker This is a really bizarre statement. Could you deign to back it up in any way? ~~~ 67_45 The product of a group of people is a function of the characteristics of the people. This is just a simple fact. Some people confuse themselves by pointing to education as a contradiction to this. They say that the presence of education changes the product of society, so it's not just the inherant intelligence of people that matters. This is incorrect because as I stated, it is the characteristics of people that matter and education has the effect of improving characteristics. It is the end result of both nature and nurture that then determines how well a society fares. People who have good "nature" are required though, because they end up doing well regardless of education level whereas naturally dumb people need to be force fed an education which leads to a fragile system where any lapse in educational infrastructure leads to prolonged slump in society overall. There are complicating factors that make my initial observation difficult to find. Power and influence over the product of society is not evenly distributed over the population. This just means you need to take an integral over the influence levels -- if all of the power is in the hands of very intelligent people then everything will be ok even if there are mobs of stupid people. There are many examples of this. ... Look at gun rights. If we abstract away the gun we can see that it is really responsibility that is being talked about. Is the population up to the task of owning guns without killing other people? This is not very different from the responsibility to own a car or powerful cleaning chemicals or knives or a million other things, or even the vote. Guns happen to be perhaps one of the most damaging rights in the short term. But I no longer ask whether or not people are ready for guns because if they are not ready for guns they are not ready for the vote or the car or raising children. The result I have come to is that everyone in society needs to be up to the task of having responsibility because if they aren't, the country will collapse. Taking away the guns will stop deaths but it won't solve the root of them problem and it won't stop the slow death of the country. I think that is probably the biggest theme of my idea. Slow, subtle changes that are difficult to attribute to anything are actually influenced by a very simple thing. Lack of good characteristics will result in a slow and nebulous death manifesting itself as failures of institutions and other things. Injecting good characteristics via education, culture or immigration results in fantastic progress in prosperity and quality of life -- all looking like good luck or a magical combination of law and infrastructure. Edit And I have to add that there are countless examples everywhere you look. News for example: people blame news companies for publishing misleading, fake, distasteful, etc stories but really it's the people consuming the news who are at fault. If nobody bought or watched that kind and of news then it wouldn't be published. And there are endless examples like that. Most things that are a national embarrassment like that are a result of the people in general supporting it or being apathetic to it. ------ chiefalchemist > "Norway’s huge oil and gas sector is the clear driving factor behind the > nation’s economic boom over the last three decades..." Norway gets short term rich. Mother Nature continues to live in poverty. The masses and the media continue to ignore the aggregate cost of the latter. #BeamMeUpScotty ------ arthurfm Shouldn't Norway's be Norwegian [millennials] in the title? I have never heard of a Norwegian referred to as a 'Norway'. To me, the title reads as: "Unlike most millennials, the Norway countries are rich" which doesn't make any sense because millennials are people not countries. ~~~ Thiez It's referring to them as 'the millennials of Norway', short: 'Norway's millennials'. You are correct that those millennials would be Norwegians. ~~~ hocuspocus Not all of them. About 17% of the population aren't citizens, and probably more so within the millennials. ------ known UBI improves lives, enhances freedom and is a matter of social justice; [https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/07/04/why-the- wor...](https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/07/04/why-the-world-should- adopt-a-basic-income) ------ csomar Wait a second Morty > Norway’s youth unemployment rate (among 15- to 29-year-olds) is also > relatively low at 9.4% compared to an OECD average of 13.9%. But for the USA > Youth unemployment stood at 8.4 percent in April 2018. Also > People in their early thirties in Norway have an average annual disposable > household income of around 460,000 kroner (around $56,200). But remember that Norway is a small petrol country. That would not be fair and square to compare it to behemoths like the USA. Compare Norway to the Bay Area? I can't find stats but I'm pretty sure the "average" person is getting more than $56k in SF. So what am I trying to say: \- Don't compare small countries (smaller than big cities in population terms) to big countries. \- Don't compare oil rich countries to non-oil rich countries. \- Don't pick your stats (he compared unemployment to the OECD and not to the US). Everyone know that some European countries are going through hell now (Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc...) \- Maybe we have reached peek capacity and the younger can't do better. In these terms, Norway can still grow faster if it didn't (but I don't think that is the reason). Anyway, it is an article for article sake. Means pretty much nothing to why we are here. ~~~ alkonaut Norway is a bit of an outlier because of natural resources. Most importantly, the trust I put in the Swedish pension system (I.e I save next to nothing and trust I will get a good pension) is a bit less safe than a young Norwegians trust in _their_ state being able to do good on their pension promises. This in turn means as mentioned in the article, a young person can earn $1700 and put half towards bills and rent, and the rest is for entertainment. The trust in the public safety nets is big (again you could argue we trust it too much but it is what it is). A young person isn’t saving for unemployment, illness, college, retirement. I think few low-30somethings in the Bay Area that has no student debt, and has half their income as beer money after all savings, insurance, rent, bills ... The hard part is comparing what money _is_ and what it means in terms of quality of life. It’s _extremy_ difficult to do this (as recurring discussions on HN prove). What does $56k mean? Depends on what you need it for. What things cost. Comparing a European state to a US state isn’t so far fetched either. Compare Norway to Oregon - not to the US. Population of small European states match many US ones.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Twelve virtues of rationality - Hexstream http://yudkowsky.net/rational/virtues ====== dgordon "The best physicist in ancient Greece could not calculate the path of a falling apple. There is no guarantee that adequacy is possible given your hardest effort; therefore spare no thought for whether others are doing worse. If you compare yourself to others you will not see the biases that all humans share. To be human is to make ten thousand errors. No one in this world achieves perfection." This seems almost to gesture toward a thought I've been tossing around my head lately. If you're basically a conventional person, with a conventional, average view of the world, conventional understanding of morality, and so forth, people who never knew you will look back at you from the future and ask, "How could you think such things? What was wrong with you?" We say it about people in the times when slavery was conventional, when segregation was conventional, when entrenched sexism was conventional, when Nazism was conventional. People will say it about conventions of our time as well, and, I must say, rightfully so. The only way around this is to give serious and continual examination to the conventions of our time -- to quote John Taylor Gatto, "the great non-thought of received ideas." People of the future, with higher shoulders on which to stand, will probably still find places to criticize you. No one is perfect, and no one can escape entirely the influence of their time and place. But what shows one's commitment to the good is moving toward it -- which, in turn, helps others move toward it. And the same applies to physics. Every physics major today knows about relativity. That does not make them better physicists than, say, Newton. That credit can only go to those who move conventions -- be they in moral philosophy, or physics, or medicine, or anything else -- not those who follow them, however advanced the conventions they inherit happen to be. ------ swombat Are there virtues to irrationality too? It would be better to balance this article with one that presents the 12 virtues of irrationality... To get started on this list: 1) Goodness - sometimes the rational choice is not the right choice. 2) Rapidity of execution - it can take hours or even a lifetime to come to a rational decision on some complicated, vaguely defined subjects (such as ethics). The irrational decision engine in your brain can make that decision in a split-second and be right most of the time. 3) Better resilience to incorrect or incomplete data - sometimes, you have incorrect or incomplete data, and no way to correct or complete it. Based on your rational analysis, you may decide to, for instance, refuse to meet someone. And yet, once you actually meet them, you may gather new information that changes your previous rational choice. There's no doubt many more... ~~~ inimino None of those represent virtues of irrationality, but rather common misunderstandings of rationality. 1) If goodness is your goal, rationality lights the path. 2) To engage in a lifetime of cogitation when a split-second decision would be good enough (given your goals) is not rational. 3) Rationality includes making decisions under incomplete information (including the correct assessment of risks). The argument you present here in fact presupposes rationality. ------ markbao Some guy went to the Hacker News Coffee Palo Alto (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=285623>) a few months back and handed out copies of this. Does anyone know who this was? He looked strikingly similar to Yudkowsky... ~~~ Eliezer I think that _was_ Yudkowsky. ~~~ markbao WTF man? Why didn't you say so? :) ------ known These virtues precede of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs> ------ LPTS He listed 7 reasons his worldview was better than yours before covering humility. List ordering fail. I deny that humility is a virtue and that humility corresponds to rationality. Also, it's rational to be occasionally irrational, because that instability contributes to beneficial evolutionary changes in the structure of thought. ~~~ inimino "It's rational to be occasionally irrational" is an irrational statement. It is rational to be open to new ideas, but that is not irrationality. ~~~ LPTS No I mean it's rational to go bat-shit "the lizard men would have gotten me if it weren't for the fairy tucking me into extra dimensions where my entire worldview fell apart like a glass chandelier shattering I feel like I'm dreaming but I'm wide awake get that guy some seizure meds" irrational every now and then. It's most rational to be able to slide into any degree of irrationality that maximizes the placebo effect and evolutionary change in thought. Thinking is what you put into your brain to cocreate your reality. Irrational thinking can sometimes lead to the creation of a better reality. (It's probably irrational to feel optimistic about your business endeavor, but you're more likely to succeed if you think it anyway.) I mean a lot more then being open to new ideas. I mean having the mental flexibility to slide from completely insane to completely rational intentionally, and using that to create the best reality. ~~~ IsaacSchlueter Not so sure I agree about the lizard men, but I agree in principle. It's a bit like tai chi. You can say that chi is bs, and it's all about how you move your body. And you'd be right. But, for most people at lest, without _believing_ on some level that you're tossing energy around, you _won't_ move your body right. The key is to be able to believe that in the way that is useful, and yet, still have the clarity to look at your beliefs and recognize that some of them are not, in fact, accurate models of the universe. Outside of an epistemology essay, we _can_ in fact believe and not believe the same thing at the same time, and quite often do. The trick is to do it intentionally. ~~~ LPTS The interaction between Tai Chi and thinking about energy and moving right tells us a lot about cognitive processing. It's an interesting thing. If Tai Chi relates to cognitive processing, they are just describing as energy a real phenomena we describe in cognitive processing terms. Kind of like when we make a model of something described as a wave, and another model of that thing described as a particle. And both contradict each other but are confirmable experimentally. Tai Chi is an excellent example of this kind of thing. I would press on you one step farther here, though. You say "still have the clarity to look at your beliefs and recognize that some of them are not, in fact, accurate models of the universe." I would press one step farther and say it's not even possible to have an accurate model of the universe, and that anything you could possibly believe would not be an accurate model about the universe. All you can say is what happens when your nervous system bumps into reality. The lesson from quantum physics is that there is no way to discharge your instruments (whether science tools or your brain) from what you are saying about your universe. Therefore, nothing you say is an accurate model of any part of the universe. ~~~ IsaacSchlueter Just because some parts are wrong, that doesn't mean that no parts are right. Models are expectation limiters, and experience predictors. Not all models are created equal; they vary in specificity and in accuracy. The phrase "there are two cats on my bed", I'm pretty sure, is about as right as possible. This is my bed. I'm looking at two cats sleeping soundly on it. When I close my eyes, I can still feel them three. EVERY prediction that is limited by that model turns out to have been properly limited. EVERY prediction that model suggests is accurate. It is, in fact, as true as true gets. On the other hand, the sentence "light is a wave" is saying a much more specific thing about the universe. Like the two cats on my bed statement, it rules out some expectations, and suggests some predictions. As it turns out, some of those expectations are correctly limited, and some are not; some of the predictions are validated, and some are not. Therefor, we can say that, while it may be useful to consider light being a wave in some instances, it clearly is actually something other than a wave that just happens to be wave-like. If it was _actually_ a wave, then _every_ prediction would be validated, not just some of them. We can go a step further, even, and in some cases talk about the degree of truth of a given model. The truth value only has to be predictably higher than 0% in order to be useful; but it has to be 100% to be considered _actually_ true. Furthermore, specificity effects the value of truth. A statement about cats on my bed may be 100% true, but it's not nearly as risky or specific as a statement about the fundamental nature of light. The main usefulness of this 100% true statement is for me to know that my feet will be kept warm. And, while I personally care deeply about the comfort of my feet, in the grand scheme of things, it's just not that big a deal.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Observations from two weeks of SSH brute force attacks - bensummers http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2012/01/25/observations-from-two-weeks-of-ssh-brute-force-attacks/ ====== rlvesco7 I've been running a similar experiment. And noticed similar things as the author. However, I decided to run an additional experiment to contact Amazon since the IP was originating from an EC2 instance. Amazon contacted me after I filed an abuse report and said they were investigating. A week goes by and I'm still getting hammered. So I email Amazon and asked when it will be resolved. No response. So I email again, again, and again. I finally get a response saying they have resolved it, but I'm still getting hammered from the same IP address. So I email them once more asking - what is it exactly you have resolved? No response. I presume it is not in Amazon's best interest to resolve such issues as long as people are paying for their instances.... ~~~ param One of my linode servers was compromised and was used to originate such attacks. Linode proactively shut down the machine after a 24 hr notice period. Unfortunately, I wasn't expecting this, so I missed their email and only realized the problem once my linode was offline. I wouldn't be thrilled about either linode OR amazon ~~~ aptwebapps The Internet at large, on the other hand, would be quite happy with Linode in this particular instance. Was there some other way they should have contacted you? ------ radimm Just move your SSH off the port 22, hide it behind another instance and/or use fail2ban. 99% of problems with SSH scans/attacks sorted ~~~ nvarsj Or better yet, don't run SSH at all. Leave it to the pros. I had an experience about a year ago on one of my home servers that convinced me of this. It was a Debian machine that I kept religiously up to date (daily cronjob and manual checking). It only had an external SSH port, I used log2ban, and disabled all logins except for one non-root user. I got the common ssh brute force spam. Then one day I happened to be checking logs, and noticed rootkit logs in the /root directory. My server had been hacked! Fortunately whoever had broken in had completely botched it and left traces all over the system. It looked like they had given up at some point, despite having root access. I later discovered that the attacker had used a 0-day openssh exploit that had been released that very morning. For that time period of 24-48 hours between release and fix, my server had been hacked. I only wonder how many other servers were hacked by skilled people that didn't leave evidence behind. So morale of the story - you can't secure _anything_ that is publicly facing on the internet. And if you really need to do it, it requires constant vigilance, DMZs, and all that other stuff that is not worth it unless you're being paid. ~~~ hackermom In your specific case, this wouldn't have happened if your SSHd had listened to something else than port 22. ~~~ Florin_Andrei s/wouldn't have happened/would've been much less likely/ ------ peterwwillis A long time ago I used to have a general purpose server on a DSL line with port 22 open. I thought everything was fairly secure, patched up, etc... I never thought brute forcers would be able to guess one of my accounts (which was a friend's account actually). The kicker? The password was the username. I found out about the rootkit a few days after they got in. I tell ya, kids these days just don't know how to hide a backdoor. A really good port knocker is your best defense against rogue attackers of an external service (because there is no defense against a 0-day). For an iptables-supported system I recommend Knockknock by Moxie Marlinspike (<http://www.thoughtcrime.org/software/knockknock/>). ~~~ lloeki For brute forcing, without resorting to port knocking, fail2ban works well and has a pluggable system to handle more than ssh. ~~~ rlvesco7 Does fail2ban work against brute force distributed attacks? I've noticed a few attacks that seem to be orchestrated from the same people but using different IPs. ~~~ nuclear_eclipse It doesn't specifically target distributed attacks, but I'm not really sure how something like that could know whether incoming requests are part of a botnet or ligitimate logins. ------ flpmor I think that a more reasonable explanation could be that the attackers were careless about building the dictionary. If it's built by parsing files and you feed the wrong file or the parser does not work correctly you end up with a dictionary with lots of bogus entries. That seems a simpler explanation than: "The best guess is that these passwords were collected from an unhashed password database, or from a trojaned SSH server or client." or "This might be due to the brute force tool not properly interpreting comments in the dictionary file, or the attacker not understanding the comment notation" ~~~ khafra Interesting idea. Assuming competence on the part of your attacker isn't as dangerous as assuming incompetence, but it can be just as mistaken. ~~~ flpmor It could be more haste than incompetence. Anyway, if you think about massive brute force attacks like this, they are 'silly' easy no-brain attacks more likely to come from script kiddies who downloaded a tool someone else wrote than real attackers. ------ mhitza Heh, those passwords are in Romanian TiganilAFloriNTeleormaN - Gypsies at Florin in Teleorman Fum4tulP0@t3Uc1d3R4uD3T0t - Smoking can kill awfully bad ------ rdtsc What is with Romanians? Most of the metadata sent (see at the bottom) is in Romanian. ------ hackermom Sheesh! Let your SSHd listen to something else than the standard port already! ~~~ olalonde Or don't use password based authentication...	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Here's What Really Happened at That Company That Set a $70,000 Minimum Wage - Thorondor http://www.inc.com/magazine/201511/paul-keegan/does-more-pay-mean-more-growth.html ====== kspaans > he has sold all his stocks, emptied his retirement accounts, and mortgaged > his two properties -- including a $1.2 million home with a view of Puget > Sound Maybe I'm missing something, but how is a $1.2m mortgage affordable on $70k/year? Did he not remortgage the whole value of the house? ~~~ rdancer He sold the mortgage to his company, for stock. The company takes out a mortgage, secured by the house he owns, he gets stock in return. If the company fails to pay, house gets foreclosed on, but he still keeps the stock. ~~~ linkregister Are you speculating or is that substantiated? "He sold his stocks" implies stocks in other companies. He can't increase his equity (50%) in his company until he buys out his brother. Am I missing something? ------ wtbob I suspect that the real reason for the raises is the dispute with his brother: by paying profit out to employees, he doesn't have to pay it as dividends to his brother. ~~~ smt88 That is a reasonable suspicion, unless you actually read the article. 1\. The lawsuit was filed _after_ the pay increase. 2\. "Profit growth continued to substantially outpace wage growth." So basically the company is more profitable than ever. 3\. This guy is an outspoken advocate of paying people an equitable wage. It'd be a lot of trouble go to through all of that charade just to pay his brother less. 4\. Profits don't always have much to do with the value of a company, which is what the lawsuit is about. Furthermore, the lawsuit might be about the documents they signed (or didn't sign!) related to selling stakes to one another. ~~~ asn0 1\. The lawsuit was likely an escalation of the long-running dispute that started early on, also mentioned in the article. 3,4. People will go to extraordinary efforts when fighting over ownership or money. There's enough value and profit in this company to be worth a lot of trouble. It's too early to know what Mr. Price's real intentions are. I'm waiting for the Wired follow-up in 3-5 years. ------ GeoDeV Wages are subject to the law of supply and demand, just like every other aspect of economic life. Since the CEO seems to be paying well above the going market rate, I doubt that this is sustainable for the long run. Yes, he's partially compensated for the imbalance by cutting his own pay, but it won't be enough. Also, the rapid growth of the company will also buy him some time, but that can't go on forever. The article's author seems to know little about capitalist economics beyond the conventional wisdom, most of which is wrong or non-essential. And if Rush Limbaugh did in fact call the CEO a socialist, then Rush Limbaugh doesn't understand what socialism is. Having said all this, I would still like to see this company succeed, just like Henry Ford did many years ago with a similar tactic. ~~~ rdancer The cost of your inputs has little to do with the price you can charge for your outputs. Those are two supply-demand curves, which have very little to do with each other. Note that there is an infinite number of business models where the inputs curves are way above the outputs curve, and those are the business models that never can possibly be profitable. Increase of minimum wage (albeit this extreme) only raises the cost of inputs, and makes the set of unprofitable business models larger; there is no qualitative difference to, say, raising the cost of oil 300%. Wages in aggregate eat directly into your profits, so if you're happy with lower profits and lower wages for executives, you absolutely can raise wages. If you pay 70k/year in low-margin-per-employee industries, your will inevitably operate at a loss, but this company is not low-margin. I would also love to see this succeed, but maybe giving employees non-voting stock would better stave off the possibility of running the business into the ground. ~~~ evanpw In an economically idealized world, if someone pays above-market wages then you would expect a competitor to appear that will charge less to their customers while making the same profits, destroying the first business. Of course, in that idealized world, there are no "excess profits" (profits not commensurable with risk), so it should be impossible for the company to raise wages like that anyway. So the real question is: why is this company so profitable, and can that continue indefinitely? Or does this guy just have such a high tolerance for risk that "acceptable profits" for him are unacceptable for any possible competitors? ~~~ Jtsummers Employees are part of that market as well. If there are two companies, one paying market wages, and one paying more, the employees will move to the second company. The second company now has a larger pool (and potentially better pool) of candidates to choose from than the first. The first company may do better on margins per sale, but the second will have better quality/productivity per employee. ~~~ evanpw This is a valid point, I think the effect will usually be small. 1\. If a company is paying above-market wages, then by definition there are more people who want to work there than there are available spots, so the second company will get some of the overflow. 2\. The market for a particular kind of labor (e.g. phone techs) is usually much larger than whatever market for outputs these two companies are involved in (e.g., credit-card processing), so one company paying above-market wages is unlikely to change the market wage level very much. This could definitely break down for some very specialized jobs. ------ rdancer This _is_ socialism. Paying wages that are 50k over the market creates enormous incentives for corruption. The CEO seems to be a devout Christian, and I want to hope that all the employees are strongly moral people, but to paraphrase the parable of the camel and the needle, it is extremely difficult to be both rich and righteous at the same time. There is a pressure on the people to outsource much of their work at market price, skimming the profit. People are clever, they will find a way. It also puts an immense value on getting the job (possibly by deception or by getting rid of the incumbent in some way), and then staying at that job at all cost. The risk-aversion will be through the roof. There will be absolutely no back-talking. The managers will never be challenged, no matter what they do, by their underlings. Morale and the working conditions will deteriorate as a consequence, with negative effect on the bottom line. All the above used to be the norm in various forms in the Soviet bloc when I was a kid. Those of you who spent some time in a socialist country will recognize the problem. I hope that this experiment stands the test of time, and we can all learn from it how to make employing people more humane. But I won't be holding my breath. ~~~ GeoDeV This is definitely not socialism! There is no coercive government intervention here. It is the CEO of a private company paying his employees above market rate. One of the many benefits of a free market is that you will often see experiments like this. Some will fail, some will succeed, but no one will go to Siberia. Socialism is political system, an incredibly irrational and immoral one, but this is merely a business decision taken by a single CEO exercising his own independent judgement. ~~~ rdancer One of the aspects of socialist economies is that unlike in free-market economies, wages are not set by the market. Whether they are set by the CEO or the Central Committee is a distinction without a difference. You can swap the word "capitalism" in for "socialism" in your comment, and those statements would still work. Socialism didn't fail because it were monstrous. It failed, because we ran out of money and the will to live in squalor. ~~~ landryraccoon I don't get it. If I hire a housekeeper and she asks for $10/hr but because I like her a lot I offer her $20/hr, are you arguing that's socialism? It's my money and I can do whatever I wish with it - that's capitalism at it's finest. The CEO owns the company. If he has total control, he could instead of paying his workers more simply buy himself a jet or donate it to a church. (Obviously, if his shareholders object, he'll have to convince them to go along as well). If you want to think in terms of market wage, what he is doing is paying them market wage, then unilaterally deciding to give them a "big tip" at his own expense - which happens to bring their total compensation to $70K a year. That's still capitalist, since it was his money to give away in the first place. He could give it all to Donald Trump instead, if he wanted to - the fact that he happened to give it to his employees is almost arbitrary. The only issue is whether he can afford to keep it up, but that's entirely on him. ~~~ rglullis If I understand the parent correctly, the argument is that any artificial method to establish a price to wages will lead to corruption. Your example is talking about one housekeeper: if she notices that she can arbitrage on your generosity, she can pretty much contract someone else to do her job for $10/hour, and not even show up and still earn $10/hour. If you object to it, it is a signal that you value one's work more than the other, and then we are not talking about market-clearing prices anymore, are we? ~~~ Jtsummers She can be fired, she's not entitled to that $20/hour. Cut out the middleman, though the current "free market" in the US is going to more middlemen and rent seekers so she'd be right at home here. ~~~ rglullis Yeah, but we are making assumptions about market-clearing wages and rational agents, here. Anyone that gets to the position of making above-market wages will use this arbitrage opportunity and would be fired, if we followed your strategy. In the end, the only way to end this and to actually get your house cleaned is to pay market-level wages. ~~~ Jtsummers Ok, if you're assuming strictly rational agents. If they realize they'll be fired for contracting out their work, then wouldn't the _rational_ thing be to continue working rather than contract out and retire early on the higher income? Or to train people to do as well as you and set up your own business taking advantage of your stronger than average reputation in the field. But doing an activity which has a high probability of costing you the income you desire is not rational. ~~~ rdancer They only get fired if you find out. So the rational thing for them to do is spend part of the arbitraged amount on deceiving you. As long as they are spending less on deceiving you than the arbitraged amount, it is rational for them to do so. Ergo, rampant corruption. ~~~ landryraccoon I don't get it. How does the math work out? Let's suppose the market wage is $10/hr. If I offer a lucky housekeeper $20/hr, why wouldn't she just happily take the money and continue to work? Union workers don't arbitrage themselves (but they should, under your scheme, because they collectively bargain for higher than market wage). If the cost of deceiving me is greater than zero, then she's being irrational. She can earn no more than $10/hr anywhere else, and hiring someone else to replace her would cost $10/hr (since that's the market rate). So lets say she hires someone else at a cost of $10/hr, and then goes to work for someone else - she's still earning $20/hr (the arbitrage amount plus the value of her labor) minus the cost of deceiving me. So assuming she wants to work for wages (which she must, since she offered to work for $10/hr in the first place) I don't see how it's at all rational to arbitrage the opportunity. ~~~ rglullis Another way to go around it: you pay $20/h to a job that usually takes X hours to do it, so in the end you will pay 20 times X. I bring someone else to work with me, and we both do the job in X/2 time. I pay $10/hour for the subcontracted person. So assume a 8 man-hour job. You will pay $160. I keep $120, the subcontracted $40. My effective rate was $30/hour. You don't think this is a problem, as you see your house cleaned just like usual. Next time, I bring 3 other people. We finish things in 2 hours. I pay $60 to them, I keep $100. My effective rate was $50/hour. Next time, I bring 7 other people. We finish things in one hour. I pay $70 to them, I keep $90. My effective rate was $90/hour. I use the other 7 "working" hours of the day to play videogames. ~~~ landryraccoon > You don't think this is a problem, as you see your house cleaned just like > usual. How are you able to assume this, since I actually would very much see it as a problem if 3-4 people I don't trust to clean my house as much as my housekeeper are inside doing the job? Your underlying assumption is that I'm an idiot and can't see what's happening. She couldn't subcontract the work for the same reason _I_ can't subcontract my work at my current job - my employer would see through it. > I use the other 7 "working" hours of the day to play videogames. Not many people would come out for $10/hr for only one hour. What about travel time? And the organization necessary to make sure the quality is still high? I think you're lampshading a ton here. ~~~ rglullis You say it's lampshading, I say it's just imagining some ways where people can exploit this type of opportunity when receiving above-market pay.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Toyota Mirai: World’s first mass-produced hydrogen-powered car - TimJRobinson http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/technology/toyota-mirai-worlds-first-massproduced-hydrogenpowered-car-has-a-range-of-300-miles-and-its-on-its-way-to-the-uk-31507944.html ====== bytefactory Can anybody with insight into more details than a layman comment on the attractiveness of a hydrogen-powered car vs. electric cars? I know Elon Musk views them extremely unfavorably, I'm curious if that's just a blind spot, or if there's good reason to be skeptical of hydrogen-powered cars. The fact that a huge amount of additional investment (paying off by 2030) is needed to set up hydrogen plants with renewable energy to make this tech 'green' seems to be one big disadvantage. Edit: or anybody with an informed opinion, for that matter!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ubuntu 18.04: Unity is gone, Gnome is back, and Ubuntu has never been better - rbanffy https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/05/ubuntu-18-04-the-return-of-a-familiar-interface-marks-the-best-ubuntu-in-years/ ====== shabbyrobe > Ubuntu has done a bit of tweaking so that you can actually put launchers, > folders, and files on your desktop, which should be welcome news for many > Ubuntu users. How long that will last is an open question, though, since > GNOME just completely removed the code that made it possible for Canonical > to enable this feature. I was curious about this and went spelunking for more information. https://community.ubuntu.com/t/files-nautilus-v3-28-will-lose-the-desktop-icons-capability/3115/1 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/nautilus/merge_requests/46 https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2018/01/09/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t14:46 https://csorianognome.wordpress.com/2017/12/21/nautilus-desktop-plans/ I understand the need to remove cruft that blocks progress, but the Desktop filesystem metaphor is used by almost every single computer user I have ever seen. It seems wilfully destructive to remove something that is depended on by so many without making sure there's a replacement in place first. ~~~ tapoxi > the Desktop filesystem metaphor is used by almost every single computer user > I have ever seen Smartphones, tablets, and Chromebooks are incredibly popular and lack a desktop. ChromeOS is the most similar to GNOME here, in that it has a desktop wallpaper but you cannot create anything there. ~~~ mkasu Most of these smartphones and tablets have homescreens which serve a pretty similar purpose. And people are used to having links to all their favorite apps on it. ------ fb03 I've been skipping all the Unity drama by staying on Xubuntu which is really snappy and stays out of your way. Also, Gnome on this laptop (Dell Inspiron 15 7000) gave me (and several others users, as per forum post [https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2358975](https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2358975) and some bug reports I found on the internet) a freeze or stutter every 10 or so seconds. So instead of having to start debugging shit from a fresh Linux install like I used to do in early 199x linux days, I chose to install xubuntu and just get to work and be productive. Try XFCE today, really (and install all gnome apps should you need to run something from that desktop environment: they integrate great with xfce). o/ ~~~ djanogo I have been using XFCE for 5 or 6 years, the _best_ thing about it are it's developers, they don't keep updating it. XFCE avoids the plague which affects rest of the software industry (me included) - dedicate design, marketing, and development teams who constantly have to add _something_ to justify their jobs and bonuses. Look at the number of app updates on mobile phones, every freaking week there is a update available. If you don't update they will eventually block older versions. ~~~ flyinghamster I've been a big Xubuntu fan for quite a while myself. I recently put 18.04 on a VM to give it a test drive, and found that they've tweaked XFCE so that you have to be ridiculously precise at moving the mouse to a lower corner if you want to resize a window. The margin for getting a lower-corner drag cursor seems to be one pixel at best. Argh. I've seen this problem over and over on a variety of Ubuntu versions over the years, as if they don't want me resizing windows. Is there any way to tweak this? I'm not at all liking it. My 16.04 installations are much better in this regard. ~~~ benjaminjackman This isn't a solution but `a just in case you are not aware` You can press alt+right click and hold then drag near the corner of the window to resize it (alt+left drag moves it). I understand that there are times when that isn't work so it's nice to have both options. ( I wrote a browser based windowing system and have experimented with having the bezels on the windows be quite large and/or auto-expanding when the mouse nears them to make resizes as easy as possible since hard to hit pixel thing annoys me so much) ------ ploggingdev > but two deserve a quick mention. The first is Kubuntu, which for my money is > the flavor to beat. If you haven't tried KDE lately, you really should give > Kubuntu a go. KDE is no longer the memory hog it once was, and Plasma 5.12 > offers an incredibly nice, polished, and smooth experience. Strongly agree. KDE/plasma continue to make great progress and it's my personal favorite. Looks gorgeous out of the box, is light on memory and the cpu, and offers great customization options. Since it uses a layout similar to Windows 7/10 people coming from the mentioned operating systems feel right at home and it eases the transition to linux (I've installed Kubuntu for a few non-technical people and so far no complaints!). If you're interested in following KDE's progress, check out Nate Graham's blog [0] where he publishes a weekly post going over new features and bug fixes in KDE applications and plasma. Really looking forward to plasma 5.13. [0] [https://pointieststick.wordpress.com/](https://pointieststick.wordpress.com/) ~~~ pbhjpbhj KDE too has cycled through removing the ability to put things on the desktop and reverted to allowing a "folder view" and then back to a traditional windows desktop (as one option). They still do some kookie stuff with Plasma -- from big things like Activities to little annoying things like removing the drag-resize from the application menu (I fix the size in ~/.config after every update), and removing the KDE version info from the Dolphin file manager about menu. Weird little changes that make you wonder if someone's gone insane. Mind you I disable just about every automation and haven't used KDE apps like kmail for a long time. ~~~ seba_dos1 You always had an ability to put things on the desktop in Plasma, even in KDE 4.0. It just worked in a completely different way, unrelated to the "Desktop" folder in the filesystem. Also, Alt+PPM works well for resizing the Plasma menus now. It was missing for some time due to architectural changes. ~~~ pbhjpbhj PPM? Didn't realise it had been fixed, there's no affordance for resize on the menu ... Definitely wasn't a usable way for putting icons on the desktop when plasma rolled out. ~~~ seba_dos1 Sorry, RMB :) Used Polish name for some reason. There was, in a form of the icon plasmoid. It worked and behaved completely differently than Folder View does, but if you really wanted, you could have some icons on the desktop. It still works, by the way - it gets created when you drag'n'drop something into the non-Folder View based desktop. I think drag'n'dropping might have been added shortly after 4.0, but the icon widget was there from the beginning for sure. ------ neverminder I'm on Ubuntu 18.04 (upgraded from 16.04) and I'm still using Unity. Technically Unity is not gone, but it's no longer a default, Gnome is. I've tried Gnome and was very disappointed. No global menu integration which means losing useful screen space for no good reason. Tray icons somehow look squished and ragged. No fractional scaling is a massive issue for me since I'm working with dual 27 inch 4K displays. Tray bar only shows only on one of the monitors and you need a plugin to make it appear on both which is just ridiculous. No more convenient built in features/options like auto resizing a window to 1/4 of the screen by dragging it with a mouse to one of the corners, etc. ~~~ tannhaeuser Another serious issue with Gnome IMHO, also shared with Unity, is way too small window edges so that attempting to drag-to-resize a window becomes an exercise in patience. I'm on a laptop most of the time and, like you, have absolutely no desire to go back to wasteful non-global menus. Have you eyed a replacement DE for Unity/Ubuntu going forward? Edit: OTOH, Ubuntu have clearly spent a good amount of effort to customize Gnome so here's hoping they can morph it to work like Unity even more (OHD, global menu) ~~~ neverminder I've tried KDE Plasma too but didn't like it either. To me it looked like 15 years behind Unity in terms of polishing, aesthetics and design/look consistency of base applications such as file and task managers. Unfortunately Unity was just right for me and everything else feels like a massive step down without tweaking the shit out of it and still not quite getting wanted result. ------ sliken Since 20+ years ago I used decent window managers that let me have a 2x2 workspace. VERY simple to use. Moving the mouse works within a workspace and the same way across workspaces (mouse off any edge). Moving windows worked within workspaces (click, drag, drop) same as across workspaces (click, drag, drop). Basically the principal of least surprise. Moving the mouse and clicking shouldn't have special rules across workspaces unrelated to the rules of working within a workspace. So basically you could basically intuitively work on a space much larger than your screen without having to think about it. Ubuntu 18.04 forces vertical workspaces (so 1x4). In the dual monitor config it only moves the left monitor across desktops. And moving windows between workspaces is a nightmare. Step one is move the mouse to the top left corner and click activities to expose. Step 2 displays all your windows as tiny icons, 2/3rd of your screen is just the background, so they aren't much bigger then icons, and theor position once exposed is unrelated to the original position. So now you have to refind your window, then drop it into one of the workspaces. But you can't watch or tell where it lands. So then you have to switch workspaces and refind that window. Quite the pain compared to 16.04 (or any decent window manager since olvwm 20+ years ago) it's just drag and drop. Additionally there's no spatial relationship. So a window that's off your top edge of your workspace doesn't show up in the workspace above yours. It's basically just 4 unrelated workspaces. They also prevent wrap around, so you can't go from 1 to 4, but have to visit 2 and 3 first. Reminds me of the first hacks to OSX and Windows to get more than one desktop. Linux folks figured this out 20+ years ago with olvwm, ctwm, and many others. ~~~ asgraham Does workspace grid [1] work on 18.04? Not sure how to get wrapping, though. [1] [https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/484/workspace- grid/](https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/484/workspace-grid/) ~~~ mort96 This isn't strictly related to your suggestion, but a more general comment. Am I the only one who finds it a bit frustrating that any time someone complains about missing/bad functionality in gnome, someone recommends to install an extension, but when a user complains about stability or performance, their number of extensions are blamed? ~~~ truncate No you are not the only one. I've had performance problem with GNOME on my Dell XPS 13 for a while. Initially it was mostly sluggish animations. After couple of years, with regular updates, my fan is continuously spinning and it visibly feels slow. I don't use very few popular extensions (hide title on maximize, the ubuntu defaults). I mostly use i3 which is perfect, but one of those days when I feel like using a full desktop environment, I just can't. On positive side however, scaling for hidpi screen seems to work out of box in Ubuntu 18.04. ------ rdtsc Am I the only one who didn't hate Unity? I wonder if it was an effect of people who didn't like it complained and threw hissy fits. Those that liked or didn't mind, didn't say anything. So it _seemed_ as if everyone hated and they just had to replace it. I've observed that pattern happen with product features before. A customer chimes vocally that they hate something, another does etc. An issue is created, work starts, then a whole new wave of complain come later that "hey I did like that feature, why did you remove it". Wonder how the decision was made, did they do a more formal survey or just went by the vocal critics on HN and other sites? (Now having said that, I don't dislike the new interface, so not complaining about GNOME, just mainly interested in how the decision process worked). ~~~ ctrlc-root Unity wasn't perfect but I personally really enjoyed it after the initial adjustment period. I mostly switch between a web browser, a terminal, and a text editor. I like how Unity let me run the applications I needed while staying out of my way and taking up mininal screen space. ------ rullopat With KDE that got so much better in the last 2-3 years, Qt license that is not an issue anymore since a long time... why so many distros are still using GNOME (especially version 3)? ~~~ banishwashtub I try using KDE every couple of years and I can't even put my finger on why it grosses me out so much. The "K" start to every piece of software is obnoxious, I don't know if this is true today but I remember one of my first times using KDE and searching for "calculator" or something and being unable to find it because it was "kalculator". Terrible UX. I think what really gets me is I use Windows at work and KDE is too close to windows in some respects but isn't...it's also too close to other Linux DE's but isn't. Feels really awkward, and isn't very pretty. I don't necessarily agree with the design decisions of GNOME Shell and GTK but I think they still look a lot better than KDE and Qt. ~~~ seba_dos1 > I don't know if this is true today It's not. Also, I can't stand the ugliness of GNOME, while Plasma looks mostly neat and clean. ------ kcdigital Anyone else use a tiling window manager like i3wm? [https://i3wm.org/](https://i3wm.org/) Since I mostly work in the terminal, it improves my productivity quite a bit when I can navigate around and open apps without touching the mouse. ~~~ Symmetry I run xmonad from within a Gnome session, at least on my laptop. I looks like the PPA lazy people like myself use to do the integration has been updated for 18.04[1] so I'm going to move my laptop over shortly. [1][https://github.com/Gekkio/gnome-session- xmonad](https://github.com/Gekkio/gnome-session-xmonad) ~~~ colordrops I second this. Xmonad with gnome is nearly perfect once configured. ------ Jedd Unity was never the main reason people chose to use Ubuntu -- it was always (well, from when I first heard about it until I lost interest (5 years ago)) the claim that Ubuntu is easier to install than Debian. I never understood the fixation about _ease of installing_ , as that's something I either did once every few years on custom hardware, or had automated already using a CFM. For stuff I installed manually (laptops, occasional desktop rebuilds) partitioning was always the thing that gave me the most pause - and a graphical installer vs text installer didn't really impact that process. Picking a new hostname wasn't any easier with a GUI than a text interface either. The common claim was that Ubuntu _had_ have better X, init (upstart), installer, and maybe some more recent exotic drivers -- but I was hard-pressed to identify the differentiating factors from Debian testing (what most of my friends & family were on, at my behest). ~~~ Dayshine >I never understood the fixation about ease of installing The only time I use linux is when I need a linux VM for something. This happens maybe 2/3 times a year, and I can never remember all the random linux specific installation stuff. Ubuntu goes into enough detail that I don't need to google it, Debian doesn't. My fixation is because I don't care about what version of linux I'm using, I'm not going to be using it for much, I just need a linux kernel and a reasonable package manager. ~~~ AnIdiotOnTheNet I honestly don't know what you're talking about with "random linux specific installation stuff". Installation of Linux hasn't really been any different from Windows since the early aughties as far as I can tell. Select keyboard layout, provide hostname, just let the partitioner use the whole disk automatically, configure the network, etc. As someone who frequently hates on Desktop Linux, I agree with the sentiment that the fixation over ease of installing is pretty silly. Only a few distros in recent memory have anything remotely difficult about their installation process, and it's usually that they don't bother with any wizards and just make you do everything by hand from the shell, but those were meant for experts anyway. ~~~ collyw I would really like to run Arch, but last time I checked it was a manual process (so I am on Majaro). The docs are really good. I am expert enough to get a lot of benefit from that amount of detail, but not expert enough to be bothered with the manual install process. One thing that gets me is ~12 years ago I used to install distros all the time. There was a semi standard way to partition your drive, / home and swap. Now I look at the partitions that are produced and a lot of the time I have no idea what is going on. And please stop moving the bloody usb drive mount location about. ~~~ nobleach I feel the same. 12-20 years ago, I was installing Linux distros (and NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD...) multiple times in a week. It was such a wonderful playground. As a software developer, now days, I just want something to work without fiddling with it for days. That said, I just installed Arch again a week or so ago. I have 2 observations: 1. Getting it bootstrapped and running is downright annoying. I see little value in it other than teaching someone what an installer _would_ do for them. Do you know how to chroot? mkinitrd? fdisk? install a bootloader? ensure that you have the right drivers/modules to run your WiFi chipset? manually configure everything??? The end product _does_ give you a feeling of accomplishment... but, I'm still not sure it's worth the cost. 2. ArchLinux docs are about the best I've seen. Kudos to the community for doing such a fine job. ------ pawelk I'm on 17.10, installed it with GNOME and went back to Unity after a few hours. I was not a fan of Unity when it was released, but i guess it grew on me. Using GNOME again just didn't feel right. And screen recording was broken, if they fixed that then I may give it another go after upgrade. ------ habosa Been using 16.04LTS on my personal laptop for a few years, just moved to 18.04. I feel like the biggest improvement by far is the Snap package manager and its integration with the Ubuntu software store. After 10+ years of doing personal computing on Linux this is the first time that installing my main apps has ever felt sane! I was blown away by being able to install the latest Android studio, with a launcher icon, in one click. No more tarballs and command line launchers and broken dependencies. Has this been around for a while and I just didn't know about it? ~~~ collyw What was wrong with Synaptic? I always felt the the offical Ubuntu package manager was a dumbed down version that(though its been a while sine I have used Ubuntu). Synaptic definitely felt better for installing libraries instead of applications. ~~~ sangnoir > What was wrong with Synaptic? >> broken dependencies. Not that it's Synaptic's fault, but some packages will have conflicting dependencies, especially if you're using PPA's to get recent software versions. It's not uncommon to get "foo (latest) requires bar >=3.1 but you have bar 2.8 installed. Baz (installed) requires bar 2.8". Snaps avoid conflicts by having each app contain it's dependencies, which could otherwise conflict. ~~~ teddyh > _Snaps avoid conflicts by having each app contain it 's dependencies, which > could otherwise conflict._ It also negates the entire point of having a package management system, as you can’t upgrade a security issue in libfoo and get it fixed once, but have to wait for all the users of libfoo, and the users of users of libfoo, and so on, to provide a new version of the Snap package with a new fixed libfoo contained inside it. ~~~ evand I work for Canonical, but I also share maintainership of some snaps. From an automatic email I received recently: “A scan of this snap shows that it was built with packages from the Ubuntu archive that have since received security updates. The following lists new USNs for affected binary packages in each snap revision: … Simply rebuilding the snap will pull in the new security updates and resolve this. If your snap also contains vendored code, now might be a good time to review it for any needed updates.“ Yes, you don’t get that library update everywhere all at once, but this gives each vendor a chance to make sure that update actually works with their app. ------ EarthIsHome Unity was one of the reasons I switched away from Ubuntu. It may be time to try Ubuntu again :D ~~~ kleiba It's always been possible to run the window manager of your choice on Ubuntu, as it is the case on all Linuxen. ~~~ jdub But they didn't spend the time to keep GNOME up to date or make sure it was well integrated. Now that it's the default again, it gets more attention. ~~~ rangibaby Ubuntu Gnome was pretty good, I never had a problem with it for the three years or so I used it ------ tuomosipola No type-ahead search in Nautilus. Ubuntu actually dropped their unofficial patches one version ago, Gnome developers years ago. I cannot fathom how Gnome 3 developers think this is a good idea. We have tried to file bug reports, discuss with them, explain the use case. Still nothing. Very frustrating for us users. ------ jessaustin After updating to 18.04, local DNS no longer works on this machine. It worked before. It seems that the systemd "stub" resolver isn't failing over to the LAN DNS server specified by DHCP. resolve.conf is just a single reference to systemd-resolved. It seems systemd-resolved knows about the LAN DNS server: $ systemd-resolve --status \| head -4 Global DNS Servers: 192.168.88.1 <ISP IP 1> <ISP IP 2> It's not using it though: $ nslookup laser Server: 127.0.0.53 Address: 127.0.0.53#53 ** server can't find laser: SERVFAIL $ nslookup laser 192.168.88.1 Server: 192.168.88.1 Address: 192.168.88.1#53 Non-authoritative answer: Name: laser Address: 192.168.88.5 Not clear to me whether this is a problem with systemd or with ubuntu integration of systemd. Glancing at /var/log/syslog, it seems systemd-resolved is restarting every four minutes, which seems unnecessary. ~~~ chillydawg It's one of many questionable design decisions in the systemd project, in my view. The other one that I really dislike is the entire logging system moving away from plain text files toward binary journals and complex commands to view them. ~~~ iso-8859-1 Really infuriating since it means I no longer can lookup A records on TLD's. Breaking an old DNS feature... $ nslookup dk. Server: 127.0.0.53 SERVFAIL $ nslookup dk. 8.8.8.8 Server: 8.8.8.8 Non-authoritative answer: Name: dk Address: 193.163.102.58 ------ skocznymroczny I used to dislike Unity, until I played around with macOS and got some experience with the global menu bar and similar concepts. Now I actually prefer Unity to all other desktop environments. Apart from that I can stand XFCE, but I still think Unity was the best thing to happen to Linux. Unfortunate that they're going back to GNOME. ------ jstsch I picked up a (very) cheap Acer Spin 1 as a dedicated machine for embedded development. 250 euros. Meant for Windows 10, but unusable for that with its 32GB of eMMC. With a bit of effort installed Ubuntu 18.04 on it. Works great! Wifi, touch pad, even the touch screen and orientation all work out of the box. No messy driver configuration. I did replace gnome with Unity (an `apt install ubuntu-unity-desktop` away), because it performs tons and tons better than gnome and with a 1.25 scale makes the 11" 1080P screen much more usable. Amazing how much computing you can get for this price...! ------ nkkollaw I think it _has_ been better. Unity has brought a lot of innovations, and it would have been a lot better to keep it around. Gnome devs started making extremely unpopular changes that are hard or impossible to revert. Unity at least put some pressure on them to consider their users a little bit. If only for this reason, Unity's existence was a good thing even if you didn't like or didnt' use Unity. The situation to me is similar to Chrome's dominance, with Firefox being around to be used by few people, but having the very important role of not leaving everything to one company/group/project. I've tried using Gnome 3 but there are just a few things that drive me (and lots of other people) crazy and can't be changed. Along with the project's "our way or the highway" attitude that made me switch to Xfce. If Ubuntu keeps being based on Gnome, Gnome might keep leaking some of their great ideas to Ubuntu, which is bad IMHO. Xfce is a little too barebone but very usable, and with an extremely positive community. Devs are normal human beings that never look down on you (from my experience)--which can't be said of all open source projects. ------ sandGorgon To all those who are moving to xubuntu or mate because gnome is janky...well it can be janky on Ubuntu. Fedora 28 and Gnome were made for each other. They look and work brilliant. Try it out (and don't let dnf vs apt hold you back) ~~~ sonnhy The real upgrade for me was in fact using dnf instead of apt. It seems and work so perfectly I don't even use any synaptic-like package manager. Also yes, can confirm that GNOME is very well integrated in Fedora. That vanilla feel is so strange coming from Ubuntu, which heavily relies on modification on every package they have. ------ mihaifm > It's a sensible change upon reflection given Wayland's long list of > incomplete features like, for example, the lack of support for screen > sharing in chat/VoIP apps and spotty support for VNC tools I've been struggling with VNC on 17.10, eventually ended up installing RDP (XRDP), also buggy as hell. Can anyone point out a good remote desktop solution for Ubuntu, that will preferably work in 18.04 ? ~~~ hefty I haven't tried it but maybe give X2Go a look? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X2Go](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X2Go) ------ tofflos It would have appreciated the software updater telling me that that I won't be upgraded because I'm on the previous LTS instead of insisting that there aren't any upgrades available - this while I'm reading the release notes from Ubuntu. Bonus points for allowing me to upgrade anyway without resorting to the terminal. From [https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-upgrading- ubu...](https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-upgrading-ubuntu- desktop#2): If no upgrade appears As mentioned in the Ubuntu wiki, upgrades from 17.10 will not be enabled until a few days after the release of 18.04 and upgrades from 16.04 LTS will not be enabled until a few days after the release of 18.04.1, expected in late July 2018. You can force the upgrade, however, with the following steps: close Update Manager if it's still running open a terminal in the same way you opened Update Manager type update-manager -d and press enter ------ urmish I switched to arch linux a couple of weeks ago after being an ubuntu user for 8 years. After installing gnome3 I see not much difference between arch linux and Ubuntu. Sure, maintaining packages is quite different (and better) in arch linux than Ubuntu. I guess I was always a fan of desktop managers and not quite concerned about the distro. ~~~ jeanmichelx The AUR is also really cool, no more of "add this dodgy PPA", instead you download a file that allows to install dependencies and compile the original sources. It's more transparent, and if you don't care, you can install pacaur that hides all of this behind a pacman interface ~~~ nobleach I'd say that a minor annoyance is: "here, clone this repo, hop inside the folder, oh... and grab these patches/diffs and pray that you can patch the source. Otherwise, you're not getting that cool feature that you saw on /r/unixporn". There's something to be said for downloading a binary, where someone has already fought through the compilation errors. Totally agree that the quality of AUR package (untouched by patches) are really good. ------ cdnsteve I just dumped Windows 10 for full on Ubuntu 18 on my desktop and so far so good. Great that it has whatever you need only a shell command away. Thumbs up so far. ~~~ AnIdiotOnTheNet Yeah, until it doesn't because no one added it to the package repository, or the version in the repository is out of date, and there's not even a PPA. That's one of the big issues I have with the package manager centric application distribution model, it's basically an appstore. That wouldn't be a big deal, except that structuring the OS around the package manager as the one and only way software gets installed has lead to an environment where there is no standardized set of base system components a developer can target if they want to distribute their application any other way, so the options they're left with are 1) Statically link everything, which glibc is actively hostile to, or 2) bundle all your dependencies, a loader, and a wrapper script (or static binary) to ensure what you need is available and properly linked. Is it really any wonder why so little non-oss software is available? ------ greatquux There's really only one reason I do use GNOME Shell: the Pidgin IM integration and Panel OSD extensions popup a pidgin notification in the center screen where I can reply back to it inline without having to switch to the desktop where pidgin is running (or switch to the active pidgin window even if it's running on the other monitor with the static desktop). I do so much communication with various people throughout the day (using protocols supported by Pidgin) that this saves me a whole heck of a lot of time. I just wish it was available for other desktops. ~~~ xemdetia What do you even use pidgin for nowadays? I haven't launched it since AIM died (and MSN before that). ~~~ greatquux I use Pidgin to connect to Skype, Facebook, XMPP and Google Hangouts with plugins. I communicate with lots of people on various networks and with only one program and even then only through notifications. I just need texting somehow and I'd be all set! ------ saosebastiao For people like me that need updated drivers for hardware reasons and really don't want to deal with a new UI, there is always the option of newer kernels. I personally use this method, which is easy to use, upgrades automatically via the normal apt mechanism, and has never once failed me. [https://askubuntu.com/a/236458/498460](https://askubuntu.com/a/236458/498460) I'm on the `hwe-16.04-edge` kernels, and they've been great for me, although the `hwe-16.04` kernels are still kept up to date quite well. ------ quotemstr I'm a fan of Cinnamon. I wasn't expecting to like it, but I do, and much more than Gnome 3. Cinnamon's old fashioned flexible panel interface still can't be beat. ------ stefs panic story time: updated yesterday. after the update, reboot. full disk encryption doesn't accept my password anymore. fuck. full panic mode. already searching for an usb stick to get a clean install, although it may take a couple of hours to get the machine back into a working state. luckily my colleague knew what was going on. i had special characters in my password and after the update, the keyboard layout changed from german to english. ~~~ jopsen The disk encryption seems very robust. I encrypted my external hard drive with LUKS and plugging it into old Linux installs just work :) So I wouldn't panic before trying it with a usb stick.. ------ fortythirteen Ubuntu MATE 4 life. It's like running peak 200x Ubuntu frontend with all the up to date backend. ------ amelius I love Gnome, but I have been in an almost constant fight with the taskbar in Gnome. Adding applications is not trivial (right-click doesn't work), removing them is also not trivial. Moving applications to the end of the list is easy (and happens often by accident), but moving them back to their original place is impossible (unless you want to play the game of moving applications to the end of the list until the list is in the correct order). I managed to have my taskbar disappear somehow at some point. I had to restore from backup to get it back. And I managed to change the background color to transparent, and I can't change it back. Also, at some point, I lost the workspaces widget. I hope that in the new version, things work a little smoother. ------ jto1218 I don't know if this is on topic but I switched to Ubuntu 18.04 recently and ran into this fairly annoying bug [1]. Installing curl installs libcurl4, which then uninstalls any applications you have that have a dependency on libcurl3 (which turns out to be Slack, Virtualbox, and some others). They really need to figure out how to allow libcurl4 and libcurl3 to live side-by- side if that's possible. Responses from ubuntu folks on that bug ticket have just been "Those packages are not official ubuntu packages so we can't do anything" 1: [https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/curl/+bug/1754294](https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/curl/+bug/1754294) ~~~ matharmin For Slack you can use the snap package, which doesn't have that issue. ~~~ mcovey For some reason I can only run the snap with sudo, and thus any processes it spawns (clicking links or opening a file manager for example) run as root. ------ kleiba I've been trying to find out whether Ubuntu 18.04 still supports the gnome- flashback package. I've tried to install it via apt-get in a virtual machine but then there was no option to select it as my session after a reboot. Does anyone know more about this by any chance? ~~~ xuhu Swtich to lightdm from gdm3 and you'll be able to choose it in the login screen. ~~~ kleiba Cool, I'm gonna try that. Thanks! ------ nik736 Without sounding too negative, I understand that this is a lot of work but I simply don't understand why Linux desktops, let it be Gnome, Unity, KDE or anything else always looks like a bunch of developers try to master usability. ~~~ cJ0th right? Most DEs offer solutions to problems that simply don't exist. Take the launchbar on the left-hand side for instance. Being able to launch apps quickly is handy. But why waste valuable screen space for it? A simple launcher that can be activated with a keyboard shortcut is enough imho. ------ sp527 Why hasn't Canonical hired a designer to modernize the UI? Surely they can afford it. Is it a point of pride for it to remain outdated? I guess that's a feature from the POV of the primary Ubuntu target demo? ------ paines My experience is quite the contrary which makes me wonder, does it really behave so differently among systems?!? touchpad and bluetooth pairing (a2dp) are not working after suspend+resume. Notice: touchpad can be fixed with a script in /lib/sysetmd/system-sleep. Home encryption gone?!?! Why for fucks sake?!? This was one of the USPs for me to use it over Debian. Yeah it can be done manually, but for beginners this is a drawback... ~~~ halkotron Yeah, BT after resume was f'ed for me too. Solved it by: \- upgrading bluez to 5.49: [https://launchpad.net/~bluetooth/+archive/ubuntu/bluez](https://launchpad.net/~bluetooth/+archive/ubuntu/bluez) \- hacking a script that toggles rfkill (un)block <hci0 dev id> on resume BT applet, at least on Unity (yes, I'm one of those people) seems to be borked in that it can't enable BT after resume. I'm guessing it's because it remembers the wrong BT device ID (which gets incremented after every sleep/resume, at least on my system). ------ sonaltr I'm surprised no one mentions LXDE (Lubuntu). It's really light on resources and works great! (been using it for around a year now on my personal devices). ------ lossolo I have a problem after upgrading to 18.04 - even if CPU is idle fans are still working. Everything was fine on 17.10 (fan would only work on higher loads) then upgraded on my ultrabook to 18.04 and fan is working all the time. Anyone have similar experience/solved that? ------ znpy Xubuntu for the win. ~~~ Ygg2 I keep Xubuntu in a VM. It performs perfectly. ~~~ znpy > It performs perfectly. THIS! This, so many times. Xfce lets you _actually_ use your computer to accomplish tasks without getting in the way and/or forcing you any "intended usage". It is so good and so light, it's light-years ahead of Gnome. ------ silverdrake11 I still give them credit though. With Unity and Ubuntu phone they were trying to have one interface that worked in all devices.. 'convergence'. Hope one day we will have a linux that does this or at least an open source OS on our phones. ------ foxhop I actually switched to Fedora when Ubuntu Unity came out (after being a long time Ubuntu user of many years). Gnome was a major reason for my switch. I didn't have time for unity (just like I gave up on KDE for the same reason). Gnome is solid and looks beautiful these days. ------ s2g Great to hear. Unity was easily the 2nd worst desktop experience I've had, behind windows 8. Windows 8 was easily fixed with a 3rd party tool to restore the start menu. Unity was just so clunky, and no matter the hardware always seemed slow. ------ aestetix Is there an easy way to remove systemd yet? ~~~ bigato The closest to an answer to your question is to install Devuan, which is a Debian fork that was motivated exactly by people wanting freedom to choose their init system. ------ keithnoizu Oh thank god. ------ trumped almost as good as Fedora? ------ binarez i3 is all I need. ------ brooksbp Looks quite nice! ------ throwawaymanbot Gnome just never seems right. Unity is way more polished. Which is a shame. I initially supported gnome over unity when Ubuntu released it. But, once you get used to the polished feel, its not something you want to do with out. Gnome currently STILL feels like a step or 2 backwards. ------ olskool So did they actually fix anything? On 16.04 on my HP EliteBook the sound fucking dies every single time I do a resume. Not to mention the random times the terminal stops printing characters.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Developers’ side projects - grabeh https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-projects/ ====== alexmingoia > Not related to your employer’s line of work. Um, wait. What’s the definition > of related? [...] I don’t know. It’s a big enough ambiguity that you could > drive a truck through it. No, it's not that ambiguous at all. The courts rarely side with the company, and only in cases where it's quite obvious the work was directly related. If your side project isn't directly related to the work you are doing, then you don't need to worry. Don't let Joel or any other tech CEO scare you into not working on side- projects. Don't even tell your employer about side projects. Leave them out of the loop entirely. ~~~ ImTalking You don't quite understand Joel's point. Regardless of whether you are legally right, a larger company could sue you for the sake of suing, and make your life very miserable. And if the fight continues and you run out of money, what then? I had exactly that thing. I was being bought-out and a small client decided (against the contract that they had signed) that the changes we had made to our mortgage broker commission system were their own IP, and that they would suffer damage if those changes were part of the overall IP we were selling to our prospective buyers. And it was absolute nonsense since their changes were just a collection of reports and small features which were part of the public domain since whenever. It took weeks to iron-out the agreement and obviously could have scuttled the buyout. And when I left the company that bought me out to start another project, I made sure that I had a release to say that I'm indemnified against any future legal actions and I started the project the day after I got that release. The old adage is correct: plan for the worst, hope for the best. ~~~ johnwheeler > Regardless of whether you are legally right, a larger company could sue you > for the sake of suing, and make your life very miserable A company with resources could sue you for a number of bogus reasons if they wanted to be dicks. ~~~ dimino Yeah but law isn't magic, you can take away their options by planning ahead. ~~~ djsumdog I really disagree with this. The law is a type of magic.It's socially constructed. The idea of blind justice is sort of a fairytale. Reality shows us that some of the most powerful get away with murder while the people least able to defend themselves take plea deals rather than fight charges. At the very least, the law is subjective: [http://khanism.org/security/legality/](http://khanism.org/security/legality/) ------ sgentle I find this mindset totally disgusting, but I'm glad it's been summed up in such a concise way. > Being an employee of a high tech company whose product is intellectual means > that you have decided that you want to sell your intellectual output, and > maybe that’s OK, and maybe it’s not, but it’s a free choice. Let's clarify that phrase, "sell your intellectual output". Keep in mind that earlier in the article we discovered that "during work hours" or "related to your work" are not limits on its scope. What are the limits? The evident conclusion is that there are none. You are selling _all_ of your intellectual output. A situation where every idea you come up with, everything you think, every last shred of creativity is owned by someone else is one of the most profoundly dystopian things I can imagine. But this isn't a sci-fi story, this is standard business practice. Selling all your intellectual output is selling yourself, and I think it's unconscionable. If you don't even own your own thoughts, what do you have left? ~~~ yongjik > A situation where every idea you come up with, everything you think, every > last shred of creativity is owned by someone else is one of the most > profoundly dystopian things I can imagine. That's rather overdramatic. Several centuries ago, every idea you come up with, everything you think, you could probably keep as your own because no one was interested and there was no way you could sell them and make living, even if you really wanted to, which you probably did not, because such a lifestyle was out of most people's reach. "What are you saying you've been up to all this morning, _thinking_? Cut out the laziness and go feed the cows, or there will be no lunch for you!" ~~~ dwaltrip We are currently living in the current age, not several centuries ago. Should one accept terrible medical care, as such care would be considered revolutionary a few centuries ago? Additionally, there _were_ people back then whose intellectual output was their own and were able to do things with that output. ~~~ ozim Joel also wrote that as a contractor you own all the copyright by default, and it is your free will to sell it. That is your choice to sign up for contract and let the company take over. If you do not want that, simply do your buisness on your own and don't look for work for someone else. ~~~ ozim For downwvoters, I am from Poland I live in Netherlands. I am all in for personal freedom. I cry when freedom is taken away from people. It is about beeing more educated, knowing your options. Not just signing up with big corp because you will get more money. It is about you can loose some of your money because you choose freedom. Please upvote it. Don't be like a child who wants to have cookie and eat cookie, it is You loose some money in return you get freedom. Those who want money can get all they want, but you loose something more valuable. You can't have all the money and all the freedom... ------ nostromo This is a good article, but the "let them eat cake"-iness of the last paragraph is pretty chilling. > the only way to gain independence is to be independent. Being an employee of > a high tech company whose product is intellectual means that you have > decided that you want to sell your intellectual output, and maybe that’s OK, > and maybe it’s not, but it’s a free choice. I was hoping for a closing argument about how thoughtful employers could accommodate their legal requirements while also respecting independent employee creations. Instead he seems to just be saying that employees that want to keep their side projects should just quit. Reading that might give me pause about taking a position at Fog Creek. ~~~ skybrian Yes, it seems weird that he doesn't say how to fix this: Get written agreement from your employer that your side project is your own. Some employers even have a standard process for doing this. They might say no, but then you know not to put any more work into it. ~~~ rqebmm This is true, but ultimately if your company wants to be a dick about it, you could still end up having to fight them in court. They just have to say "when we signed that form you said it was a <domain A> app, but now it's turned into a <domain B> app which competes with our business. Hand it over." As Joel says, a judge/jury will probably be inclined to find for you, but you still have go through the pain and cost of litigation. Also, while it's not usually in a company's best interest to pick legal fights with their employees, the catch-22 is this: the only time it's worth it for them to be dicks is when/if your business takes off. I'm sure your employer doesn't care about your little news aggregator until you're shopping around for $100 million in VC funding. Ultimately he's right. If you seriously want to start a side business, quit your day job. ~~~ marcus_holmes But you have to quit your day job _before_ starting the side business, or working on it at all. Otherwise your ex-employer still has a claim on your business. The beauty of side projects is not having to make them pay the bills. As soon as you have to make them pay the rent, they stop being side projects. But having an ex-employer sue you for lots of money because your side project is booming is a _great_ problem to have ;) ~~~ aithoughts > is a great problem to have ;) Your comment is inspiring. The question then becomes, how much of your project's worth, as a percentage, are they going to come after you for? ~~~ marcus_holmes that becomes a question for lawyers at the appropriate time. Put it like this: not having a side project because you're afraid your employer will sue will get you exactly and definitely $0. Having a successful side project will teach you a ton of useful stuff and probably earn you more than $0 even after the lawyers have finished arguing (depending on your definition of successful). ------ tetrep > Your game designer works for a year and invents 7 games. At the end of the > year, she sues you, claiming that she owns 4 of them, because those > particular games were invented between 5pm and 9am, when she wasn’t on duty. > ... > So before you hire this developer, you agree, “hey listen, I know that > inventing happens all the time, and it’s impossible to prove whether you > invented something while you were sitting in the chair I supplied in the > cubicle I supplied or not. I don’t just want to buy your 9:00-5:00 > inventions. I want them all, and I’m going to pay you a nice salary to get > them all,” and she agrees to that, so now you want to sign something that > says that all her inventions belong to the company for as long as she is > employed by the company. Wait, what? Wouldn't the fix for this just to say, "You transfer the rights to any games you give us" (or whatever the legal wording for that is)? It seems incredibly odd to go from "you gave us a game but kept the IP" to "we own all IP of games you make". ~~~ pfranz I furrowed my brow at that example, too. He may have been simplifying or misrepresenting reality. I would think it's disingenuous that you're presenting all 7 of those games as projects done on the company time (unless there is something to insinuate you were forced to work off the clock for free --which wouldn't be different than any other kind of work). Lets say, without notifying my boss, I went on vacation and refactored some company code I maintain, then checked it in when I got back. I can't imagine claiming that as my own unless there were other shady things going on. ~~~ Asooka I think the standard contract should say something like "I assign copyright of and grant a licence to any patents I own pertinent to every single line of code that I create and give the company". ------ swalsh The hope that one of my side projects will some day succeed, and I can leave my 9-5 is the only thing that drives me. If I said, "welp, legal" i'd die inside. Some people have church, I have side projects. ~~~ hyperopia I was checking out your side project but couldn't figure out what it was/did? ~~~ swalsh Sorry, it's pretty poor quality. I've gotten out of it what I want though. ------ OliverJones Joel doesn't often miss things, but with respect I think he missed something here. If you, the employee, are working for an employer you respect, and vice versa, YOU CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION! If your day job is, say, maintaining high-capacity forum software in dotnet, and you have this hankering to develop, say, a WordPress plugin to show the time of sunrise, you can talk about it. If you respect your boss and she respects you, the conversation will be fruitful. She may say, "please don't do that," and you'll understand why not. She may say "go ahead." If you DON'T respect your boss, there's lots of advice here about how to proceed. But why not start out assuming mutual respect? ~~~ slmyers I'll be damned if I'm going to let my boss tell me if I can write a WordPress plugin on my own time. ~~~ zaphar He's not suggesting that. He's saying that you can always cover yourself legally starting with a conversation. Hey boss, I'm going to write this wordpress plugin as a side project. I'll be doing on my own time and with my own equipment. I'd like the company to disclaim any right to the code. 9 times out of 10 they will do so. If they don't then you know it's time to polish the resume. As tptacek says elsewhere here. It's too good a job market to risk the legal hassle of working someplace like that. ~~~ slmyers Oh, thanks for clarifying. I misunderstood. ------ ChicagoDave I've been a contractor and entrepreneur for many years. I do like the higher income that I can command as a contractor, but it's also a matter of principal that any work I do on my own for my own endeavors belong to me. My current client and I have talked about going "full-time" and I've even discussed it with their legal department. The problem is they have a culture of standard employment contracts and are extremely uncomfortable with the idea of someone having a non-standard employment contract. They said it was "possible", but I'd have to list the projects to be excluded from their interests. That precludes any opportunity to pursue any new ideas I would come up with. That's just a flat out non-starter for me. I come up with new ideas all the time and I pursue or network those ideas all the time. This is definitely a problem with my client and other large corporations. They understand that entrepreneurship is a growing interest of my many technical people and it has become a barrier to attracting those types of people. Something every corporation needs...people who think outside the box. Of course the primary issue is leverage. If you need the company/paycheck and don't have enough of a background to command a change in the standard employment contract, then you have to sign away all rights. Or you can just decide to be a contractor and explicitly state (where it's necessary), that the work you're assigning rights to is in some amendment and is listed in detail. All other creations/works are yours. Or you have a strong background with proven results and the corporation is interested in your services enough so that they will work with you on a non- standard employment contract. ~~~ mrottenkolber I agree with your critique, but I disagree with this line of thinking: > If you need the company/paycheck and don't have enough of a background to > command a change in the standard employment contract, then you have to sign > away all rights. You're not signing away your rights, your signing away everyone's rights. What about the person who doesn't like to sign his rights away, but is now expected to, because some other poor person lead the way? Accepting this kind of bondage from employers means either setting a very bad precedent, or following a very bad precedent. Either way it hurts the workforce. ~~~ dwaltrip This person doesn't have the opportunity or financial freedom to fight for everyone. He or she has bills to pay. The leverage dynamic is very real. It seems the law should be improved here. It would directly promote innovation and new businesses. I don't see much downside either. Businesses would be less entrenched, which on first glance sounds good. ------ pfranz I was at a larger company and tried to play ball with their policies for personal work. My contract gave them "right of first refusal" and had a space for exclusions of things you were working on outside of work. Some friends weren't allowed to continue contributing to a few Open Source projects...which seemed excessive, but makes sense if they're overly cautious. I mentioned I was helping a friend on a short film. I was just showing up on set and possibly doing technical stuff on editing and mixing. I asked, "It's not my project, I'm just helping out. What would you like to see from the project?" "Everything" "Really? We haven't started shooting. Does that mean the script? Raw footage? The final edit?" "Everything" I don't think they actually knew anything at all about what I was talking about (even though it was multi-gigabytes of information) and they handed it all over to a co- worker. I think the lesson is to think about where they're coming from. The lawyer is paid to cover the company's ass and they may not even have the expertise to make the right call, so they'll error on the side of being safe. ~~~ delinka This situation sounds terrible. Were you writing software for your employer? Why would you have told them you were volunteering non-coding assistance to a film production? Did they honestly think they had the right to require you show them copyrightable works created by other people who were not their employees? Did you truly take those creations and show them to your employer? This whole situation sounds ludicrous and should never have been required to happen by management in a company whose focus is creating software. ~~~ pfranz It was a large animation studio and I was a guy who monitored their render farm. So they were making content and I would write tools (Python, Perl, and Shell scripts) and did have access to their whole codebase. I told them because there was a box in my contract (I was new to the industry) and the last thing I wanted was to have my friend's short film litigated against. It's weird because I'm not sure what I'd do different. In that case I probably wouldn't tell them, but I often have side projects that might be profitable. Often I'd see artists working on short-films or publishing their own art books and they would sometimes be internal events promoting those things. I'm not sure if there was just some "understanding" I didn't quite get or if tech and art were treated separately. ------ rjurney You ALL need to read California Labor Code 2870! Surprised nobody has mentioned the most essential thing to know about regarding this stuff in California. The site is down at the moment, but the link is: [http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi- bin/displaycode?section=lab&gr...](http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi- bin/displaycode?section=lab&group=02001-03000&file=2870-2872) CA 2870 is attached to any such agreement you sign in California, and protects independent invention. You should read it. This law forms the legal basis for innovation in Silicon Valley. ~~~ DrScump The leginfo.ca.gov site has been deprecated for awhile. The current code is here: [http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection...](http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=2870&lawCode=LAB) ~~~ rjurney Thanks, google is slow to update! ~~~ DrScump It would help if their webmaster would just take down or outright forward the old URL, which goes back to 1995. It's been deprecated since at least early 2016. ------ joeljumpedshark Joel is both asserting that a particular state of affairs presently exists that quite likely doesn't--specifically that employers have a strong rather than tenuous legal claim to all side projects produced by their developers due to the vagueness of the relatedness clause of the California law and the contracts incorporating it--and also attempting to convince his readers, most of whom are developers, that this is entirely appropriate and that they should just accept it as a normal consequence of salaried employment. This really does change my opinion of both Joel and FogCreek, and certainly for the worse. I wonder, did FogCreek actually prevent Ted Unangst from contributing to OpenBSD as a side project while he was with them? If so, that's horrible. And how much have FogCreek, StackOverflow, and other companies that seek to greedily arrogate the entire creative output of their employees benefited from open source software began and continued as the very side projects this blog post cautions against? Utterly hypocritical. I second the call of another poster: we need a professional association (union) of the kind that lawyers, doctors, and dentists have. IEEE and ACM could easily function as such, and in fact, they already provide many of the same practice standardization and continuing education functions that other professional associations do. All that's missing is the rent-seeking behavior to ensure we earn what we're worth and keep employers like Joel honest. ~~~ __derek__ > we need a professional association (union) of the kind that lawyers, > doctors, and dentists have A nit-pick: those professions have guilds, not unions. ------ eel I thought I recognized this article. Here is Joel's original answer (2011) on a Stack Exchange site with some comments: [https://web.archive.org/web/20130329010105/http://answers.on...](https://web.archive.org/web/20130329010105/http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if- im-working-at-a-company-do-they-have-intellectual-property-rights-to-the- st/20136) Here is a previous discussion on HN: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208056](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208056) ------ ThomPete When I ran my design studio at it's height of 80 people I would encourage everyone to have side projects. When you reach that size people coming and going starts to become the norm. Just as each employer is not going to be valued as when you are a much smaller company, neither should the employee be forced to some sort of fake commitment to a company who is no longer able to care for others as a small tight band of brothers might do. So it's better to have people be able to do whatever they like to do in life. It's up to you to capture as much value out of them as possible and it's often quite telling about the position they have whether they end up wanting to spend more time on sideprojects than their main one. You have to expect people leaving you, because the reasons they join a bigger company is much different than a smaller one and it's quite shortsighted as a CEO of a company of the size of fog creek to think like that. Luckily there are other companies doing great encouraging side projects too. ~~~ bb611 Minor correction: As of December 6th, Joel is no longer CEO of Fog Creek: [https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/06/anil-dash-is- the-n...](https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/06/anil-dash-is-the-new-ceo- of-fog-creek-software/) However, he is still CEO of Stack Overflow and has over 300 employees, if I were one of them I might be pretty concerned about his take on side projects as my employer. I think in all likelihood, Joel means the article as a warning to developers who think they have more freedom than they might actually, and he's probably quite permissive about side projects at SO, but I agree the article doesn't come across that way. ------ ThatGeoGuy As a Canadian I don't even know what the requirements are, or protections if any. But I did notice one thing in particular: you need your own equipment (no company equipment) to qualify under the Californian protections. How does this factor into bring your own device (BYOD)? At what point is it your employers equipment, and at what point is it yours? I think BYOD is a terrible idea for several reasons (usually leveraged as a cost-saving measure, can't 100% verify that all company data is wiped at end of employment, etc), but this seems like it muddles the whole thing further. If you only own the devices that you use to work, does everything belong to your employer and how can you draw a line? ~~~ nine_k The problem looks reasonably clear. If something is provided to you by the employer, don't use it for a side project. This can be hardware, software, know-how, office space, work hours, etc. If something was _not_ provided by the employer as a part of your work environment, it's probably fine to use it. But a clear separation should additionally help. ~~~ alkonaut I agree it's probably wise to separate the two, but it's very hard to prove you _worked_ on company equipment. My personal projects are all in my dropbox, which is synced to all my computers (both home and work). That means all the code for my side projects is always sitting on my work computer as well. I doubt that makes a difference. ~~~ __derek__ You can turn off syncing to specific machines. You may want to consider doing that. ~~~ anondev77 I used my own equipment, including my own personal licenses for all tools, but my employer still claimed my work on it (at home) was theirs - because they claimed IT professionals all prefer to use their own equipment for their work. ------ ascotan This article is FUD. Employer contracts are concerned that you are attempting to take company proprietary information and repackage it on your own time for sale. This sort of behavior clearly falls into 'inventions'. However, most of the contracts I've seen have a clause which states that the invention must be related to the business of the company. If you work in the games industry and make games on your own time for sale, your employer might take issue with that. If you work at a games company and run a real estate business on the side, who cares? Similarly, if you work at a games company and write real estate software, they're still not likely to care. The issue arises: \- where the customer you are getting money from is the same customer (potential customer) of your current employer. \- where the IP in your side project has potential business value to your current employer. If in doubt, you simply tell your employer up front and get it in writing (email) that it's o.k. I've done this in the past, and the HR department usually will defer the decision to your Manager, who has to make a determination if the work you're doing has potential cross-cutting business concerns. The bigger issue (from an employer standpoint) is that you are not devoting 100% effort to your current employer. So as long as: \- you make it clear that there are no customer overlaps \- there is no IP that the company would ever be interested in \- that this is done own your own time (and off-premises) No one should care what you do in your own time. ~~~ simonh Everything you write here is consistent with the article. What are you actually disagreeing with? ~~~ ricardobeat Not at all. The bottom line of the article is 'your employer owns _everything_ you do during the employment period, quit if you don't agree'. ------ oelmekki I encountered such clause in my contracts twice, in France. I'm glad to finally know the reason why, it just looked suspicious to me (and when I asked about it, each time I was answered: "this is standard contracts"). The two times, I asked to change it. First time I asked to mention that I keep ownership of my opensource projects, since it was what I was doing mainly with my free time. The second time was less obvious, because I was cofounder/CTO, and I didn't really have a distinction between my "work for company" time and "work outside" time. I also was working on a side project meant to become a business. I took it that they wanted me to transfer IP to the company, but didn't want to let the ownership of my other project go as well. So what I asked was to change text to say that company had ownership for all my non opensource code that was effectively used by the company. This gave them ownership of everything I was writing for them while at home, while still securing my ownership on my totally unrelated project (without any ambiguity possible). ------ guelo The conclusion of this article hinges on the vagueness of "related to your employer’s line of work". From that he concludes that all employee developers have effectively sold their total intellectual output. But that is bullshit. The vagueness doesn't make the law meaningless. He admits that a judge and jury would probably side with the employee but still picks the company's side for his conclusion (the sarcastic "big bad Google" gives away his mindset). It is true that a company will generally have more resources than you and can grind you down legally, but in general they don't because, besides the money, it's a time suck for everybody, potentially bad press, and really bad for morale ------ jbrazile I am surprised nobody here has yet mentioned the real case of what happened to Evan Brown, the former president of the Dallas Ft Worth Unix Users Group who worked at a telephone switch company as a system administrator and had an idea for a generic code translator. Maybe the New York Times tells it best: [http://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/08/business/an-idea-not- yet-b...](http://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/08/business/an-idea-not-yet-born-but- a-custody-fight.html) ~~~ zem interesting case. the everything2 writeup seems better than the nyt one: [http://everything2.com/title/The+Thoughts+of+Evan+Brown](http://everything2.com/title/The+Thoughts+of+Evan+Brown) ~~~ ScottBurson Ah, thank you. Yes, that puts quite a different light on it. ------ a_e_k Where I work, there's a fairly streamlined process for getting waivers for side projects, including open source contributions. Fill out a page-long form broadly describing the intended side project and send it to Legal. If approved (and I've never had one rejected), a couple of weeks later they send back two copies of a document signed by them saying that the employee promises not to use company time or resources for that project and in return they agree to disavow any interest in it. Sign and date both copies, send one back, keep the other. Done. Everyone knows where they stand. ~~~ wallstop While it's great that you've never had one rejected, what would happen if that event occurred? Imagine a situation where you submit a proposal for a completely unrelated project, that you really want to happen, and they deny it? Further conversations, talks, they don't budge. What then? ~~~ a_e_k Assuming I felt that passionately about it? I'd start looking for other employment. ------ tc This presents a false dilemma. There are other options than "own everything" or "be negligent and get sued." Contracts can say almost anything. You can agree to grant the company a liberal license to anything you deliver to the company or incorporate into any product of the company. You can make a similarly protective agreement on the patent front. There, now you own what you do on your own time and the company isn't at risk of a lawsuit from you. ------ vesak This is why programmers need unions! Or a guild. Or something! That employers totally dictate everything in a field that is in such high demand is absolutely unacceptable. ~~~ maxxxxx Most professionals have some kind of trade organization that sets standard. Doctors, laywers, many types of engineers. The problem is that programming is so attractive because the barrier for entry is so low that anybody can get into it without problems. ~~~ vesak >The problem is that programming is so attractive because the barrier for entry is so low that anybody can get into it without problems. I'd wager that it's easier to be a quack doctor or a lawyer than fake being a programmer. Most people cannot just grasp the needed details. Not that it's a competition, though. ~~~ maxxxxx You can't go out and open an office as lawyer or doctor without a license. You will get into trouble quickly. You also have to comply with a lot of rules. Anybody can call himself "software engineer" and he can pretty much do whatever he wants. That freedom is the exciting part about software but it has the disadvantage that there is no protection for "software engineers". ------ tptacek My experience with employment contracts has been that in addition to the "anything related to employer's business" clause, there will also usually be a schedule at the end of the contract where you can list specific side projects you're working on --- and that schedule can be amended (or extended with a clause like "anything agreed to in writing with your manager") later on. It's not ideal from an employee's perspective, but it's at least less unpredictable. ------ kcl Is Joel a supervillain? Why is Joel writing this and, given his obvious conflict of interest, addressing it to developers as if it were friendly advice, when it is not? I advise people not to work for Joel or his companies. This is developer- hostile advice from someone who should know better. You don't want to work for a guy like this or his companies. ------ tdeck I just started at Google this week, and this is something I'm terrified of. Side projects are vital to my personal identity and development, and knowing that I own them is vital to my motivation. The thought that my employer might try to claim ownership of work I've done all on my own fills me with apprehension and I still haven't figured out what I will do about it. My old employer was one I felt that I could trust to not abuse its power. ------ maerF0x0 This gets super muddied when you consider doing FOSS contributions as part of your work. Sure you can sign a contributor agreement, but its not yours to give away. The employer owns the code you contributed to a FOSS project. The project got the signature from the wrong entity. ~~~ lomnakkus > The employer owns the code you contributed to a FOSS project. I think this is a pretty US-only type thing; at least it's not very common in Europe. Usually (in Europe) ownership of code depends entirely on _when_ you did the coding -- if it's on your own time you own the code. If it's when you're at work then obviously it's the company's code. Of course there are the usual caveats about "is it _too_ closely related to work code?", etc. but if it's a totally different area of business, then you should be fine. There may be differences between employers, but even if employers explicitly specify the "we own everything" clause you can usually get specific exemptions as long as you ask in advance.[1] [1] I don't know if there's any legal theory (in Europe) to support the claim of ownership over everything you do, but Europe is pretty fragmented when it comes to law, so it's probably pointless to speculate on this point. I'm actually not sure if the "we own everything" clause would hold (or has held) up in court in any European country. ~~~ dom0 Indeed. Example: In Germany you usually have some paragraphs on this in the (work) contract (there are a couple popular variations - there isn't much leeway provided by German law here, which is good). "We own everything you do" is definitely illegal in Germany, and also not put into work contracts (such a clause would be void anyway). The legal construction is basically that the employee grants an exclusive, irrevocable license[1] to any IP produced by the employee _for the employer_. There is of course a grey zone here, but it's quite narrow, and directly non- existent if the side project is unrelated to the _current_ core business of the employer. FOSS contributions aren't really touched by this; you work on behalf of the employer to contribute to a FOSS project and the exact same terms and conditions apply as always (you put your name on it, not your employers; since exclusivity of the license implicitly granted to your employer conflicts with the FOSS terms, but the employer explicitly commissioned you to do that, the latter "wins" over the former, ie. the license of your employer to the diffs you write becomes non-exclusive in these cases, because the exclusivity is implicitly revoked by the work assignment, essentially action implying intention) -- or so it was explained to me). [1] This also means that you retain your copyright: it's not possible to transfer copyright in Germany. Very rarely things like "Copyright (c) 1871-1918 Softwareschmiede GmbH" pop up in open sourced stuff, but it's obviously something stamped on when open sourcing, and equally obviously incorrect. The copyright still belongs to the developers involved in the project, but because the company "Softwareschmiede GmbH" has an exclusive license they can re-license it on their own accord under any terms they want. They'd still have to, technically, state the correct copyright, though. ~~~ BuuQu9hu I thought it was the moral rights that couldn't be transferred, not copyright? ~~~ dom0 These two are the same in Germany; German doesn't have a word for moral rights. ------ x3al Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. In some countries, it's quite different. In Russia, you own anything you made as long as * you don't touch it while you're on duty * you don't use the employer's equipment Obviously, you still can't use any information classified as 'trade secrets' at your current job because it's covered under another law. You can even work in a directly competing company (or start one) WHILE being employed because job contract can't legally regulate your off-duty time and you can have unlimited number of side-jobs, as long as it's under 20-hours-a- week, in addition to your current full-time job. You don't even have to notify your full-time employer about it. The 'non compete clause' doesn't work. And your full-time employer can't even fire you (legally) just because you work in/own a competing company, as long as you follow all the regulations. Even the 'I don’t just want to buy your 9:00-5:00 inventions. I want them all' in the job contract can't work if I understand the Russian laws correctly. ------ mojomark As an engineer at a defense contractor, I recently had to go through the process of having my company waive my 100% IP ownership clause so that I could work with a startup on my own time without fear of putting them in jeopardy. It took about 3 weeks to process the paperwork, and answer a lot of questions, but eventually the paperwork was signed. It only allows me to work freely with the one startup. However, the important issue here is the opportunity companies are missing by not offering any significant profit sharing from disclosed inventions. If I submit IP to my company and it gets patented, I get a $500 check. That's idiitic because it dissincentivises significant innovation, but it's unfortunately commonplace. To solve the dilema, companies simply need to get their greedy heads out of their rears and offer inventors a profit share percentage such as 10%. If they don't accept, the inventor should be able to do with the invention as they please, which includes selling or licensing. ~~~ webmaven _> offer inventors a profit share percentage such as 10%_ Hmm. Good idea, but don't focus exclusively on profits. Many innovations aren't profitable sources of new revenue per-se, but cost reducers (which can then make other previously-ignored sources of revenue viable). ~~~ mojomark "...don't focus exclusively on profits. Many innovations... [are] cost reducers" I agree and I like your idea of also covering cost reduction efforts in profit sharing models. It is undoubtedly easier for companies to swallow a significant cash payout to an employee when they are receiving a large corresponding cash infusion resulting from sales of a developed idea. Following implementation of an efficiency improvement, understandably, as time passes companies tend to only see the current bottom line as the norm vice seeing "what could have been". You can project a companie's profitability over time and use this as a basis for a cost savings award. However, increased uncertainty with time makes it difficult to validate the truth behind estimated savings calcs (i.e. what is vs. what could have been). For example, if I intoduce a cost savings initiative instructing my customer to switch from diesel to LNG fuel based on the price of the fuels today, then next year diesel prices unexpectedly plummit, at the one year mark the initiative actually became a cost increaser. Thus, any award based on annual projected savings will also need to factor in the diminished value as a result of uncertainty. Cost savings projections are non-deterministic. I guess my point is that I think cost savings sharing is much more complex than a profit sharing, in which you simply take a cut of any profits (albeit a significantly smaller portion since the company is assuming the development/commercialization risk) that roll through the door. That said, I could see cost savings awards as a one-time award based on the agreed upon value at a given time, rather than an ongoing profit sharing program that pays out until the product is no longer profitable. ------ stevesun21 I got a little confused of this article. Firstly, the author try to say that side projects are belong to the company hires you as full time employee, and, then throw the game designer example, but it sounds to me like the game designer is contractor not a full-time employee, so, it follows the default copyright, I am ok with that, and then, the author start using this case to approve the relationship between your side project and your employer as you are a full time employee. Am I missed some info? I remember that in Canada, the full time employee contract mentions something like, 40 hours per week, and also explicitly mention if you use company's property or equipments to produce some, or you produce some at company venue, then all copyright belongs to the company. ~~~ eridius The game designer is a full-time employee. ~~~ stevesun21 'You are going to pay the game designer $6,000 a month to invent new games.' This is what origin say in the article, it sounds to me really not like a full time employee. ~~~ eridius That's $72k a year, which sounds like a full-time employee somewhere outside of silicon valley. In addition, you don't generally pay contractors a fixed amount per month, but rather per hour. Note how the example of Sarah the contractor has the pay rate set at $20 per hour. Also, further on down, it explicitly says the game designer is being paid a salary, which is something that employees, not contractors, get. ------ spacelizard It's disappointing that there are no conventions or legislation to rectify this situation. I have several side projects going right now, and it gets frustrating going to interviews and being asked to give up all of it just for the supposed "privilege" of being able to write code for a larger company. The solution I've found is freelancing, but this has the problem of not really providing steady work. ~~~ maxxxxx In my view there should be clear laws for this kind of stuff. Right now everything is about the employer's interest. Nobody cares about the employees. ------ mombul I want to ask the author, Joel, what is their stance on the matter at StackOverflow and Fog Creek? ------ cauterized I'm fortunate enough to have a friend who is an employment lawyer and as a favor will read through any new employment contract before I sign it. She'll point out any clauses (not just IP clauses) designed or phrased in such a way as to be unfair in the employer's favor, and will suggest alternative language that protects both them and me. I have yet to encounter an employer who wouldn't accept a few small changes to an overly broad IP clause, and print and sign a fresh copy of the contract with the changes incorporated. My current employer took very little convincing to accept the idea that they only wanted the IP created for them, not all IP created during the period of my employment. After all, as I pointed out, they have no more interest in owning the code or design of my block association's website than I have in giving it to them. And it's unreasonable to expect me to cease to be its maintainer just because of a job switch from a fashion startup to an entertainment industry startup. As long as I don't work on it during work hours or using a work computer/internet/etc, why should they care what I do with my evenings and weekends? So they accepted a modification. Of course, we might have trouble if I tried to compete with them in some way. But even if in my spare time I create a tool or library that eventually ends up being useful in building their own software, I retain the IP to that library. I might not get away with licensing something like that to them for a fee (good faith cuts both ways), but if it's already BSD licensed anyway, they can add it as a dependency and everyone's happy. And if I want to be paid for contract work for an unrelated startup on weekends, well, that wasn't the use case I used to convince them. But the contract modifications give me the right to do so without turning the IP over to them. And again, if it's not competing, why should they care? TLDR: Read and understand contracts before you sign them. Get help understanding if you need it. Don't sign something you don't want to be held to the letter of. Sometimes employers are flexible. ------ anonymousDan What would people think of a website that collates instances of companies taking legal action against employees regarding side projects and then ranks them with respect to 'side-project' friendliness? Would a bad rating for a company impact your decision to take a job there? Also, it would be cool if there was some widely available standard 'developer friendly' contract (or even addendum to a contract) that software engineers could table when negotiating a new job. It should be fair to the employer too of course, but it would give less experienced developers or those in a weaker negotiating position for whatever reason something well thought out to use. ~~~ ditonal I'm very interested in this because it's a great first step towards politically organizing. PM my username on Reddit if youre interested in collaborating. ~~~ chrshawkes I sent you an PM on reddit, my name is Chris Hawkes I have a YouTube programming channel with close to 5 million views and over 40,000 subscribers all in the tech niche. I'll be glad to promote and provide exposure to this website/cause for free. Let's get this going? ------ ns8sl And of course, nothing stops an employer from harassing you legally. I was working on a personal project once and it seemed to make sense to join it with another product from another company. We collaborated on the combination design, but never moved forward with it. I never joined the company and I was never compensated in any way. No joint product or code or anything was ever produced. However, the CEO of that company threatened me with legal action when I joined a different company to implement what I was working on. He sent a cease and desist to me and the company. I had to retain a lawyer to fend that off. Luckily, the accusations were so ridiculous it wasn't hard. ------ caseysoftware Another key thing here, it doesn't matter if your boss says "sure, go ahead and do it!" That is NOT protection. Odds are your boss isn't authorized to say that. And further, it's not in writing so it's your word against theirs. ------ anondev77 I'm in this exact situation right now where I worked as a developer for a small company. I did a side project, and they demanded I hand over the project so they benefit from it. I refused, and we are deep in a costly legal battle. But it is a matter of principal that I won't let those a*holes benefit from something I did at home, on my equipment, without any of their IP, and unrelated to the work I did. I can tell you I've learnt a valuable lesson and will never sign an generic software development employment contract like that again. ------ Illniyar I've had to reject an offer I wanted because the IP terms were draconian (even beyond what I consider standard) and the company wouldn't badge on it. Other companies did agree to make changes to get an otherwise unacceptable contract bearable. This situation has taught me 2 things: 1 - most developers don't care, those that do know about it, don't think it's a big deal. 2 - because it has basically become industry standard developers assume it's OK and that no one would sue them. ------ andrewstuart One idea for tackling this is for the employer to say to the employee "We own everything you do 365 X 24, but we will give you exclusions for pretty much anything as long as you identify the side project name and description in writing." This means that just about all side projects are permitted, but must be identified in writing in advance, and gives the employer the chance to decline to approve, and in that circumstance then the employee can leave if they want. ------ johnwheeler It's just so wrong on so many levels to deny anyone their shot at independence. Companies taking advantage of ambiguities in the law or making employees live in fear of innovating on their own terms is wage slavery in its illest form. ------ LeanderK this is an absurd agreement, i have never heard of something like this in germany. Is this common in other countries? ~~~ chiph US employee here - I've signed one (plus a patents & inventions at one firm) at every firm I've worked at since 2000 or so. Thus far any side projects haven't been a problem for them, as I have made sure to target a different industry. But _legally_ , they could have enforced the contract and taken possession of my code. ~~~ mindcrime _But legally, they could have enforced the contract and taken possession of my code._ Not necessarily. Depending on what state you live in, there's a good chance that agreement would violate state law and would be unenforceable. ~~~ maxxxxx Even winning a lawsuit costs a lot of money and stress. Unless there is a law that makes courts throw out frivolous lawsuits immediately the employer with lawyers on staff still can make your life very difficult ~~~ mindcrime No doubt. I'm certainly not claiming the current situation is ideal. Just pointing out that it's not always _as_ bad as people think. ------ xvilka Well, why not just go development and collaborative way of doing things and not make a gist/repo with a list of companies friendly to side projects, and unfriendly? Like Glassdoor it will add more clarity and competition to those companies, since people would know what they're signing for _before_ sending CV, going to interview or signing the offer. ------ makecheck No topic for a side project is really “safe”, which is why I hope most laws focus on what _you_ do for a company and not what your _company_ might ever do. I mean, imagine for instance that you simply had a _band_ and tried to sell a few songs. And that you were an engineer. _At some point in history_ , it would have made perfect sense to do this at Apple, with no overlap at all. Heck, I remember the ongoing lawsuits over the years from Apple Music just because of the _name_ of Apple Computer at the time, and I think at one point they reached an agreement simply because Apple Computer was not going to be in the music business. And at the time, this seemed like a no-brainer, crazy to imagine Apple doing anything in music. And then, oops. So no, on a company- wide basis, no side project is _really_ “safe”; companies can and do enter new lines of business, even things that seemed implausible at some point in the past. ------ chrshawkes Joel's exposure and 100 million dollar mindset is frustrating. I created a video response expressing my distaste for such contracts Joel feels should be the status quo and really feel we need to come together to make sure laws are passed to protect the creative freedoms of all developers. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ypPpk9ymg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ypPpk9ymg) The ball shouldn't just be in the employers court for all intellectual property created while employed. Joel is just another uber rich techie doing what he can to make sure nobody under his staff is able to build the next big thing. I'm boycotting StackOverflow & all of StackExchange as well. ------ paulrosenzweig I haven't heard about many disputed cases. I'd hope that if Google went around suing for possession of unrelated side projects, we'd hear about it. Maybe the possibility of being publicly shamed is a deterrent from pursing ownership. ~~~ KallDrexx A company I worked for (property appraisal company) got acquired by another company. They forced one of the higher up developers out. 6 months later that developer wrote an app dealing with lines at Disney and was making money on ad revenue. The company came after him claiming they owned it because he used skills and knowledge he gained while employed to write that app. We had a "everything you do at any time belongs to us" contract. So it does actually happen. ~~~ st3v3r Were they successful? I can't imagine any judge agreeing that, since you left a company, you can no longer make a living. ~~~ KallDrexx It was settled out of court, he never did tell us what the final outcome was. ------ schwarrrtz At my last job working for a small software company, I was able to get my boss to modify the employment contract such that a specific list of other projects (attached as an appendix to the contract) was excluded from the work product & IP ownership clauses. The idea was that if I wanted to work on a side project, I would clear it with him first, and then we would sign a quick amending agreement to the original contract which added the new side project to the list. Major caveats: I haven't ever tested this method in an actual legal dispute. Also, the negotiation involved a shouting match in a crowded bar. YMMV. ~~~ caseysoftware That's what I've always done. I've found that most employers have few issues with saying "these projects predate employment and we don't own or want them." In one case, I had a clause that said "anything that increases my recognition in [area of tech] is now owned by the company." It was almost too broad but I managed to stay well within the bounds and never have a "questionable" project. ------ Xeoncross I've had three companies rewrite or append something about past IP or even current IP on the weekends unrelated to the company, the company's hardware, or the company's time. If you approach it right (sometimes I show them how this limits our ability to work with OpenSource software) you can often swing it. Admittedly, the larger companies are less likely to entertain the request of some new hire. I think more people should bring this up in the hiring process (you don't have to push it), but lets teach companies that it's not just vacation that maters to us. ~~~ derekp7 One good way I thought of, is to mention that you volunteer your skills to nonprofits on the weekends / vacation, and that you want to make sure they don't have any legal issues down the road. So if they hand you that form, tell them you need to send it to your lawyer first. Then have your lawyer and their lawyer figure it out. ------ Buttons840 What happens if you and a few friends work on a side project and then your employer tries to claim ownership? Do your friends get to remove their contributions while you turn over a gutted and completely broken project? ------ avmich What about a situation when you develop something in a company, then company doesn't show interest in it and effectively shelve it, and then you leave the company and want to come back to developing it? Be it in another company, which is yours or not? Technically it's a property of the previous company. However if you later enhanced and expanded it further, you ought to have a share. And in practice, don't we have some good examples of startups which were built on ideas initially rejected? ------ malikNF Reminds me of something I read awhile back. (Companies, not employees, to get credit for inventions if merit system in place) [http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/10/10/national/compani...](http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/10/10/national/companies- to-get-credit-for-inventions-rather-than-employees-if-merit-system-in-place/) ------ solatic Isn't there a relatively easy way to solve this problem? As an employer, when you decide to hire someone to produce software for you, you assign them a private key tied to a certificate issued by the employer's certificate authority. The employer then has tooling which requires all commits to the employer's repositories to be signed with a certificate issued by the employer's certificate authority. Then it's very simple: any code which has been signed by those certificates unambiguously belongs to the employer. Any code which has not been signed by those certificates does not belong to the employer. Employers can demand that employees sign their work with these certificates in order to consider the work done, so employees who refuse to sign the work with those certificates risk giving up their salary for breach of contract. Employees are then free to sign whichever code they want on their free time, and assert ownership by virtue of it not being signed with their employer's certificate. ~~~ walshemj What is to stop an employee cloning his work and signing it with his key ~~~ solatic There isn't, but remember, the whole point of signing something is to put it out there in the open. If an employee grabs older work, signs it with his personal-project key, and then tried to sue the employer for using code which belonged to him, then the employer could easily show a court the timestamps/logs which prove that the code was originally signed over to the employer and thus belonged to the employer under contract. And if the employee is secretly signing work with his own key over time before signing it with the employer's certificate, then his own record of ownership will be in parallel to the employer's record of ownership, thus proving that the work belongs to the employer under contract. The whole point is how to distinguish work that the employee is not signing over to the employer _at all_ \- because it's originally a personal project. Then the employer will have no record of the code being signed over to the employer, and the proof clearly shows the code belonging to the employee. ~~~ walshemj I meant they recreated the company's work (not physically copied)but signed it with there key ------ dfraser992 If you read the fine print, software can't fall under the 'work for hire' provisions. At all. People think so, but just saying 'work-for-hire' in a contract isn't valid (enough). There has to be a explicit copyright transfer process backed up by paperwork. I ran into this myself, but decided not to get in a tussle with this client who turned out to be ripping off customers, not paying me, etc. etc. Things had been progressing along under the assumption the company owned the copyright, or I was implicitly transferring copyright, and to go and try claw back everything I'd written would have been perhaps futile (the courts would not have thought much of my change of mind) and a very big time and money black hole. I thoroughly pay attention to contract matters now. I never had a bad client before and none of the stuff I'd developed before either seemed valuable enough. But writing _all_ the code for a startup that ... oh, I don't want to take about it :) ------ ed_blackburn It seems completely alien to me that a third party could claim ownership of something I've built because I'm using a craft / skill that they pay me to use too. I live in the U.K. And work as a contractor. I've seen odd looking IP clauses in contracts but have amended them or felt confident I can sign them irrespective. ~~~ pmiller2 What are some examples of clauses that looked odd that you signed anyway? ------ stefek99 "Most developers think that the work they do at work belongs to their employer, but anything they work on at home or on their own time is theirs." NOT ME. I dread the time when in order to pay my bills I had to sign a contract... Released all my ideas to the public domain: [https://github.com/genesisdotre/wiki/wiki/Ideas-released- to-...](https://github.com/genesisdotre/wiki/wiki/Ideas-released-to-public- domain-prior-to-signing-very-restrictive-employment- contract-$January-2014$#releasing-ip-before-it-is-too-late) "original matter, work or creation" \- on my occasions I wanted to ask how about: 1) cake recipes 2) gardening 3) drawing with my kids 4) urine and excrements 5) photography (if I was to create YouTube channel talking about philosophy that would inevitably belong to them as well) Can we please introduce employment contracts that are fair to both sides? ------ andy_ppp I'd love to see some clear legal advice from YC on this; my guess would be if you are taking a first employee the idea that they would have any time to do anything other than the startup means they were the wrong first, second or even twentieth employee. After that YC what is the score? ------ red_admiral I'm not familiar with the US legal system but this sounds to me like solving the wrong problem. Take the example of the game developer - why can't you create a contract that says you pay her for 6 game ideas, including the IP to these games? It shouldn't matter if she comes up with those ideas during 9-5 or any other time. It shouldn't matter if she comes up with another 4 ideas of her own on the side, or even works part-time for someone else too. You're paying for an outcome, 6 games including all associated IP because that's what you're going to sell on to the public. ------ ivanhoe Why not just ask for a permission from the management? Drop 'em an email, explain what kind of side projects you plan and that the work will be done strictly in your free time and not interfere with you work for them. It's 99% that they'll answer it's OK, it's at that early point insignificant issue for them, and later that email response is legally binding as much as any contract. Of course, it's a smart move that you get a legal advice how to phrase the question to cover your ass properly for your state/country laws. ~~~ csomar I highly doubt they'll answer "Ok". That makes the contract void and pointless. ------ dustinmoris This was totally biased bs. Not all companies try to own all your intellectual work and if they do then look for a new employer. And in 99.9% of cases it's super easy to understand what is related work and what is not. If your company builds an online casino and you write code for a slot from 9-5 then the next social network, airbnb or uber you do at home is completely unrelated. Only a total jerk would try to claim the right on such a side project and only an even greater jerk would try to justify it with a biased blog post. ~~~ yoz-y You have obviously never tried to find a job in France. All big companies and laboratories will make you sign a no-compete agreement which encapsulates 100% of any code you could write. Even most startups do so. It is a shitty situation. ~~~ dustinmoris You are right I never worked in France. I worked at many companies and I never had anything like this in my contract. The only standard thing I get every time is to not be able to work on anything that directly competes with my employer. ~~~ yoz-y The problem is that the "direct competition" is too vague of a term to rely on. If you work in a services company, then practically any code is competing with them. If you work for a startup, then they can pivot at any time. The one concession I got was that I can negotiate the ownership of code I do outside work case by case. ------ knocte There's a loophole in most of these draconian contracts: they might own the copyright of what you do in your spare time, but they don't get to decide the license you use for your software (at least I've never seen any clause about this, ever). Then the solution is to use a liberal opensource license (MIT), and publish it somewhere. If you decide to reuse that code in the future for your own venture, you can just use it, the license allows you to do so even if the copyright is owned by your previous employer. ~~~ dangoor That's not right. The owner of the copyright is the _only_ entity that can decide the license of the code. ~~~ knocte That's an assumption. Following that assumption, you would need to ask your employer if he agrees with any tiny contribution you do to any open source project out there. Which doesn't scale. What the employment contract does is own the contribution precisely because it doesn't make any sense to ask permission everytime an employee writes anything in his own time. ~~~ dangoor > That's an assumption. You're saying it's "an assumption" that only the copyright holder can dictate the license? That's not an assumption. That's the whole point of copyright. The owner of the copyright determines the terms under which others can use the copyright. Consider this: every open source project that has wanted to relicense but did not explicitly require a copyright assignment, had to talk to every single contributor to get their permission to relicense. > Following that assumption, you would need to ask your employer if he agrees > with any tiny contribution you do to any open source project out there. > Which doesn't scale. This gets into not what is _legal_ but what is reasonable and sensible. If you write 20 lines of code using your work computer on work time and don't have prior authorization to give that code to an open source project, you _technically_ have to get your employer's permission. Realistically, few employers would frown upon that. There are still companies out there that are not open source friendly. If you work for one of those, you'll find that you actually _do_ need to get permission before contributing code. I should note that I am taking the US perspective on this. Different countries have different views of copyright, and as noted in the original post different US states have different views on employment contracts. IANAL, but I have managed and worked closely with some reasonably large open source projects and spent more than my fair share looking into licensing terms. ------ hellofunk My three colleagues and I just took a look at our contracts after reading this. We are contractors, not employees. We saw this interesting phrase: "Contractor may provide services to third parties so long as Contractor does not provide any software development services to other entities. " "Other entities" is an interesting term. Since the contractor is explicitly mentioned in the text separate from these third parties or other entities, it would seem the contract does not prohibit the contractor doing work for himself. ------ tbabb He doesn't mention that many companies who want to be friendly to their creative tech employees' habits have a legal/approval process for carving out specific side projects. ------ aorloff Usually when you sign that inventions assignment agreement (the dreaded PIAA), there is a place where it says, now list on Appendix A all the inventions you previously created PRIOR to coming to work here. And THAT'S the place to leave truck-sized holes to drive through, especially if you have a good idea of what your side project interests are at that point. ------ epynonymous it seems to me if the technology is unrelated, for example, if you work for an enterprise software company and you created a web app for consumers regarding your hobby of sports. i think what joel's saying is if that they're sick enough and the employer wants to sue you, they definitely can, they have the legal ballast to take you to town. but would they? i guess that question depends on a couple things, one if they have some personal vendetta against you, they want nothing more than to make your life miserable. or two, they think what you've built is lucrative and they want a piece of it. i'm just curious if there are precedents where someone's side project, completely unrelated to their company's product/market/customer base, but it ended up being lucrative and the company negotiated some shares/ownership of the side project become startup. ------ kodisha At the moment I am not working at any side project, but occasionally I have idea or two, and I was just waiting for a right time to start working on them. Reading this was quite devastating, not even started, and I feel like I already lost, even though my side project has next to nothing to do with my current industry. ------ lowglow IIRC california if you don't use company assets, side projects are yours. Speaking of, I'd like some collaborators to help with my side project "Terra Plant": [https://baqqer.com/collaborate](https://baqqer.com/collaborate) ~~~ mikepavone If you read the full article, it covers the law in California which has three tests. Two of those tests are straightforward (company time and company equipment), but the third (related to the company's business) is less straightforward. My impression as a non-laywer is that the courts will probably take a somewhat narrow view of that third test, but the actual language in the law is pretty vague and some companies are involved in many fields. EDIT: May be a bit less narrow than I thought. This [1] journal article cites some relevant case law. [1] [https://digital.law.washington.edu/dspace- law/bitstream/hand...](https://digital.law.washington.edu/dspace- law/bitstream/handle/1773.1/1169/8wjlta79.pdf?sequence=4) ~~~ KallDrexx I think he is too dismissive of company time though. Company time is very straightforward only if you work 9-5, but a lot of companies let developers work flexible hours and work from home, which I think makes company time less straight forward. Then when you add on call or emergency work you have to do off hours or on weekends (even once every 6 months) it makes the idea of "company time" even more vague. ~~~ walshemj and pretty much all developers are salaried so the concept of 9-5 doesn't apply ------ staticelf In the country I live in (Sweden), such contracts are very rare and I don't even think they would be valid in court here. What you do in your spare time is your own shit. In Sweden, you cannot force a worker to only have one job for example because that is illegal. ------ klausjensen Does NOLO nontract in "...this particular clause is built into the standard Nolo contract and most..." ...refer to the website nolo.com (which seems to be about legal stuff like contracts), or is it an acronym for something else? ------ elihu It seems to me that the right to work on side projects that aren't in direct competition to the work you were hired to do for a company is the sort of thing that unions might advocate for, if tech workers had unions. ------ mingabunga We share a lot in my company - I don't mind if the devs want to use some of the stuff we make and in turn they offer stuff they make to me. Works well and there's a lot of trust. we cover it legally too. ------ known Plausible for those who can [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking_outside_the_box](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking_outside_the_box) ------ sbov Do companies really want this? Doesn't this mean I can host my side project on company infrastructure? Commit it to company repositories? Submit it for code review which will probably be done on company time? ------ ausjke A good write definitely and I have been cautious on those, i.e. if I want to make some real products I do not work for anyone in-between to stay clean. Side-project is too tricky for both sides. ------ thebspatrol This topic is very interesting to me. With that said, which employer wants their employee watching TV and not breathing software 24/7? I really struggle to imagine the risk here is greater than the reward. ~~~ zippergz I certainly would prefer that my employees not get burned out. What they do after work is none of my business, but I definitely hope most of them aren't living and breathing work 24/7. ------ stevesun21 after i figured that he is CEO and cofounder of many famous startups, I feel bias in this article and I will make sure I will not work him in the future for sure :-) ------ alfonsodev Great, more reasons to procrastinate on our side projects :( ------ danjoc I negotiated IP assignment out of my employment contract before taking my job. I wouldn't take a job that tried to lay claim to my work outside of work. ~~~ st3v3r That's cool, and I'm happy for you. But is this something that should be a luxury only reserved for those in a good bargaining position? ~~~ eropple For the most part, a developer shouldn't _be_ in a poor bargaining position by the time a contract is on the table. They've invested time and money into you. They want to hire you. This is where you stake out _your_ claim. ~~~ st3v3r And we should never be coerced into death marches. But it still happens in reality. The offer of a contract might bolster one's bargaining position a tiny amount, but usually it is still dwarfed by the huge power the company still wields. Especially if one is in the position where they really need the job. If you're unemployed, then you have no bargaining power, regardless of whether they're offering you a contract or not. ~~~ danjoc >If you're unemployed, then you have no bargaining power I see what the problem is. I can read it in your tone. You only have no bargaining power if you think you have no bargaining power. I successfully negotiated up $15000 (to $60000) with paid relocation on my very first dev job. I was unemployed for nine months (in which time I masted a rather obscure framework) and coming from a background in sales. It seems being quite good in sales has helped me where other developers fail: bargaining. ------ jpmcglone What if the company does work out of San Francisco California, is incorporated in Delaware, but I live in North Carolina? Am I still protected? ~~~ tptacek Not a lawyer, probably wrong, but: California's courts won't enforce a contract not recognized by California law, but the courts of other states will, and it will depend on whether the employer can get personal jurisdiction for the case in the right state. The short answer is: in your situation, you'd need a lawyer. (I think --- not sure, not an authority --- that the "incorporation in Delaware" part of this has minimal impact; your residence in North Carolina, and the firm's operations in California, are probably the big two salient facts). ~~~ patmcguire I've never seen a contract that didn't stipulate the jurisdiction it would be enforced in. Maybe that doesn't matter, I know there's a lot of overreach in these things. ------ iamcreasy How does it affect the side projects(open/closed source) that you were already working on before taking up the new job? ~~~ grabeh It would depend on the local laws and the wording of the contract. It would be highly unusual for an employer to claim ownership over pre-existing IP (unless that was the reason they were hiring you). Of course even if pre-existing IP is owned you don't want to be in a position where contributions to the same project after date of new employment are owned by the company, creating a divide in ownership. ------ max_ WOW! I like the new layout! :) ------ jacques_chester Briefly: consult a lawyer. ~~~ ferbivore Isn't it tragic how "pay a lawyer to tell you what your rights are" seems to be the answer to everything? ~~~ jacques_chester Yes and no. My thinking is coloured by a few years in law school before dropping out. If there is a true "five nines" in our lives, it's the reliability of the law. We each interact with and under the law dozens, hundreds, even thousands of times every day without ever needing recourse to lawyers. But when you need a lawyer, you need a lawyer. One might as well sigh heavily about needing plumbers when the pipe bursts. Specialisation is normal and -- this is what I like most -- lawyers are more than a paid service. They have a fiduciary duty, they are ethically required to be dutiful advocates. Personally, while I wish the world was simple and lawyers were cheap, I have never regretted spending the money to consult with them. ~~~ ohyoutravel Isn't law school a few years? ~~~ jacques_chester 4 years, full time or equivalent, for an LLB in Australia. I did one year full time, 3 years part time, before dropping out. ------ brilliantcode I feel like this article _grossly_ exaggerated the nature of the laws and relationship between you and the employer. I think it's a good thing that Joel isn't a lawyer because anyone following his advice will lead to implosion. First, there is a very high bar for what is regarded the property of the company vs your own work. Even if you created your own open source project website and pushed code on your own github account using their laptop, as long as it doesn't directly compete or use portions of proprietary code, there is zero chance it will stand in court. Non compete clauses are next to impossible to uphold unless they literally sold trade secrets or company's code directly for profit. Even if they made a near identical version, it would be a tough uphill climb if you didn't copy & paste their code _directly in your own source code_. Of course, the Goldman Sachs vs open source dev was a very interesting and a rare case. I don't have more insight into that case but if somebody could that 'd be great. But for the most part, Joel's piece is spreading FUD into innocent developer's dreams and projects, and you don't need to heed attention. For the truly paranoid and follower of Joel's flawed legal analysis which looks at syntax than the semantics or spirit behind the written law which almost always the overwhelming use: 1) Incorporate your own company 2) Purchase laptop under your new corp 3) Do your work on there. Disclaimer: This is not a legal advice. I'm not a lawyer. I could be wrong. Check with a real lawyer and do your own due diligence. ~~~ heisenbit This may be violating your employment agreement as you are now providing services to another legal entity. ------ st3v3r I have to say, I'm really, really sick of the entitled mentality that companies take towards those that actually do the work keeping their business afloat. ~~~ Asooka It's not an entitled mentality per se, it's just that a company is a profit- maximising entity a-la a hypothetical paperclip-producing AI that eventually turns the entire Earth into paperclips through no ill intent. ~~~ st3v3r That sounds like an entitled mentality to me. ------ ommunist I always thought of Joel as one of important Excel authors. I was very much surprised to see he is CEO of Stack Overflow now. Giving context of the article, I am going to re-read carefully Stack Overflow ToS. ~~~ webmaven _> I always thought of Joel as one of important Excel authors. I was very much surprised to see he is CEO of Stack Overflow now._ Huh. You've missed a _lot_ in the intervening years. eg. [https://www.amazon.com/Joel- Spolsky/e/B001K8FTIE/](https://www.amazon.com/Joel-Spolsky/e/B001K8FTIE/) ------ BuuQu9hu SFC is working on a project called ContractPatch to show that it is possible to (re-)negotiate your employment agreements so that you own copyright on your work and to help developers go through that process. Some information about ContractPatch is in this recent podcast episode and the show notes: [http://faif.us/cast/2016/nov/01/0x5E/](http://faif.us/cast/2016/nov/01/0x5E/) ------ hasenj Off topic, but I was surprised at the end of the article to realize this was Joel Spolsky's blog! I like the new design.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
A book is not a file. - IpxqwidxG https://medium.com/writing-a-book/c3a39daa6ba9 ====== transfire Would you be happier if we called files "objects" instead? It's just a name given to a on-disk data structure. Call it what you will. In the end it is just a stream of bits. However I agree with you at a higher level. Our computer "file" systems have not evolved. And now they are being displaced by hundreds of isolated apps the manage out content. e.g. You might own the Jungle Book in your Nook account, but your copy of Peter Pan is on Amazon. Worse still, you don't even own these books anymore, they are instead a lease, which can be revoked at any time. ~~~ IpxqwidxG Actually it seems correct to me to put books and files in the superset called "objects", but not name that superset "files" by itself. Ownership and portability of a book is one thing that becomes relevant when price includes mark up to be paid to own it. ~~~ Turing_Machine "Actually it seems correct to me to put books and files in the superset called "objects", but not name that superset "files" by itself." What's different about the stream of bits on a disk that represents a "book" compared to the stream of bits that represents a "file"? ~~~ IpxqwidxG Technically none, even in the physical world! Both files and books are ultimately made up of {Book \| Files} < Content < Paper < Trees. But from a consumer point of view, which is extremely important, files and books in the real world are poles apart. So why not treat them such online? ~~~ Turing_Machine "Files and books in the real world are poles apart." Specifics? ~~~ Turing_Machine I mean, from my POV as a consumer a Kindle book that I can carry around with me is much closer to a physical book than one of your flip books (which appear to require an active internet connection in order to work?) ~~~ IpxqwidxG Owning a book is doable online as well. Clone, provide it to the user who bought it. I'm actually still digging this one but "active internet" connection - yes - that's again doable. Localstorage() /something probably? Or wait for a future to be more online. ------ Turing_Machine I guess technically the blog posts the author touts aren't "files". They're (usually) database entries stored in a database _file_. I'm not sure why this makes a difference, or why a database entry has more "creative discourse" than a file. I'm pretty sure that old-school publishers and authors kept (paper) files of their works, too. ------ zrail A hosted system where you can write and edit a book-length document and then one-click publish to various platforms, including direct sales, as well as dead-tree prints, would be pretty amazing. ~~~ Turing_Machine That's kinda what leanpub.com does, isn't it? ~~~ zrail Sort of. Leanpub does parts of that flow, but afaik they don't have an editor or draft versions, nor do they actually publish to the Kindle or iBooks store for you.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
UK government issues notice to BBC to limit publication of surveillance tactics - nsns http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/defence-d-bbc-media-censor-surveillance-security ====== colin_jack I found this fascinating, if the BBC really are complying then they go even further down my list of viable news sources...leaving them right above the Daily Mail in fact.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
SPI CA History (Debian) (2002) - yuhong https://groups.google.com/d/msg/linux.debian.devel/dMwxk9_X79s/jKhfcZE798oJ ====== yuhong Thinking about it, we are lucky that Debian used Gandi instead of StartCom too.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Brexit polling: What went wrong? - sndean http://andrewgelman.com/2016/06/24/brexit-polling-what-went-wrong/ ====== pmoriarty Does the UK use easily hackable electronic voting machines? ~~~ mtmail No. Pen and paper and people doing the counting. [https://twitter.com/mcpli/status/743506822699585536/photo/1](https://twitter.com/mcpli/status/743506822699585536/photo/1)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Can TikTok be banned from US based Android devices? - bluegopher https://raccoon.onyxbits.de/blog/trump-ban-tiktok-wechat-usa/ ====== zmmmmm Half of this rationale seems to assume that TikTok can't modify the app to work independently of Play Services. But that is completely something they could do. In fact, I'd assume they have a Chinese version already developed with separate infrastructure. Not sure why it is assumed that is so hard. It would be fascinating to see what would happen if a super popular app like that went all in on a side loaded distribution mechanism. ~~~ patrickaljord Another issue is that TikTok relies on advertising for revenue and if US companies are banned from doing business with TikTok, they would need to run the app at a loss in the US at least. They could use their revenues from the rest of the world and the Chinese government to survive in the US. Not clear how that would affect TikTok sponsored influencers. Either way, the US could order ISPs to block TikTok servers, this would require a VPN and would kill TikTok for normies. ~~~ zmmmmm > Either way, the US could order ISPs to block TikTok servers Do you think there is any legal mechanism by which they can actually order ISPs to block a server? While blocking financial transactions has plenty of precedent, I'm not sure there is any for straight up blocking communication which looks a lot more like free speech. Especially with no basis in evidence to support actual wrong-doing. ~~~ lotsofpulp Based on what I've seen in the past few decades, all you need to say are the magic words "national security" to justify anything and everything. ~~~ patrickaljord I wouldn't say "national security" are the magic words. When Trump tried the Muslim ban it was overturned, same for building the wall which was justified by "national security". I think the magic happens when the issue is bipartisan, which is the case here as both parties are anti-China. When an issue is supported by both parties then it will pass 100% with no obstacles from the constitution or any laws. ------ on_and_off Site doesn't open. I wonder how this would work ? Google can for sure remove an app from the play store and maybe even remove it from play services enabled phones. If I am European and travel (in some hypothetic future where it is possible) to the USA, does tiktok get removed from my phone ? Edit : I can open now. Some notes re : different apks for sideloading. I don't know if the author is being malicious here but they are inventing problems that don't exist. Yeah, there can be multiple apks for a given app (that's the main idea behind app bundles). However if you distribute your app yourself you either \- provide an universal apk that will install on all devices. It will be way larger since it needs to incorporate all the different possible configurations, but is trivial to make for a dev. \- detect the user device config and provide a download link tailored to that device. I guess tiktok is popular enough to go that route, but that's just a minor engineering point. Also wow, very classy to insult people who use an app. Of course if you don't like a service people who do have to be dumb. ------ imglorp I'm concerned about the precedent of the government getting involved in app censorship on ideological grounds. Today TT, tomorrow whatever the Party or our Dear Leader doesn't find complimentary? ~~~ gameswithgo if we didn’t put up with centralized stores on mobile this wouldn’t be a practical possibility for the government to ban things. now for us to get an app to our users we have to be sure the dear leader apple/google AND dear leader government both approve. ------ sheeshkebab Devices - no, but it sure can be removed from Play Store entirely (not just US), and banned from using all US based cdn’s and hosting providers... pretty much killing it. ~~~ liopleurodon Actually, it seems like they can delete it from devices. FTA it's just a push notification :( ~~~ bluegopher Yep, they can. AFAIR this feature was used once in the past after a court order to delete an app that was very popular in south america (brazil?), but contained a nasty sideload. I can't find an an article backing this up though. ~~~ sillysaurusx Wait, really? That seems ... very unexpected. Can anyone confirm, ideally with some sort of proof, that Google can delete apps from your phone on demand? I suppose Apple has this ability too. I've never really thought about it. ~~~ tetrahedr0n I think I can help provide some proof. First - the article talks about the message delivery via push notification. The push notification is, essentially, a JSON object. The relevant notification for push/delete would be something like: notificationType: 2 docid { backendDocId: "com.zhiliaoapp.musically" } Second - ADB itself, of course, provides a command for removal of an app. Only requirement would be permissions. If working direction with a console on target device, that command is going to look like this [1]: pm uninstall -k --user 0 [package name] Third - Google playstore has the permissions required to read and write to the phones filesystem. I can't find this explicitly stated, but I'm sure someone else will link to some documentation showing this is true. Fourth - Kinda makes everything else a moot point, google play apps are served by google clouds (the author mentions this as well), so even if google couldn't remove the app from the phone, it could essentially cut the cords to the APIs and render the app useless. [2] 1 - [https://jimcofer.com/2019/02/18/uninstalling-android-apps- vi...](https://jimcofer.com/2019/02/18/uninstalling-android-apps-via-adb/) 2 - [https://developer.android.com/guide/playcore/dynamic- deliver...](https://developer.android.com/guide/playcore/dynamic-delivery) Final thoughts: The author touches on this, but I don't think anyone really knows the answer. Google _can_ remove TikTok, but will they (they haven't yet, right? lol)? EDIT: formatting and final thought ~~~ marctrem > The push notification is, essentially, a JSON object. It’s a proto message, to be more precise. ------ 4cao Not sure what the article says (doesn't open for me at the moment) but to answer the question: Access to Play Store apps can be restricted to certain countries. Such apps do not appear in search results. So it's possible for Tik Tok to disappear for anyone looking to install it in the US, or with a US-based Google account. However, as long as a device allows sideloading (installing apps from other, "unknown" sources), and most of them do, it's debatable whether it could be banned from people's _devices_. Google has some mechanisms to counter malware (Play Protect) but these are supposed to be used against "harmful" apps. It's debatable whether they would want to be involved in enforcing these restrictions this way. It might be difficult for most users to follow the instructions to sideload an app, however there was the precedent with Fortnite, where users were asked to download it directly from fortnite.com/android (or use a QR code), and it seems to have worked. As far as I recall the Fortnite app was also preloaded on some phones. The real difficulty for ByteDance might be something else altogether: namely, if the US prohibits doing business with the company, and the US users could no longer be monetized. Such a restriction would be very difficult to work around. ------ liopleurodon Great article. This answered a lot of questions that I was wondering about. ------ Sargos Yes it can due to all phone apps being funneled through only 2 corporations. Until we get a more open mobile platform and a more decentralized mobile app store then governments have easy access to strict controls over what apps we are allowed to use. ------ CreepGin So, how does China ban things like Youtube and Facebook? Both on the app store level and IP/Firewall level? ------ nzha Couldn't the US government tell the cloud providers that TikTok uses (supposing they are American as well) to stop serving requests from American IP addresses? TikTok could serve those requests from China but serving video from China would make the app unusable. ------ Firebrand >Let’s be very clear here. I am not a fan of TikTok. I had the misfortune of coming across it when it was still called Musically and I had to explain to a little girl that she, unlike her friends, was not allowed to dance for strangers. That ruined an otherwise perfect evening. I realize this isn’t the main point of the post but I’m very surprised this is pretty much an accepted thing now. I would have thought the Trump administration or the media would weaponize the potential exploitation of children and turn a complex geopolitical struggle into a moral panic for the public to more easily understand. ------ pjc50 If you're missing Tiktok content, open the Instagram search tab and you'll see all their "reels" ... complete with tiktok watermarks in the corner. (this is a joke, but seriously I see quite a lot of them are just reposts; I believe the tiktok video editor is still best in class, although I've never tried it) ~~~ kevingadd Yeah, reposted Tiktok videos show up on Twitter nonstop as well. At least they're watermarked with the original author's name...	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Abstract software patents struck down by Supreme Court - chaqke https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/06/bad-day-bad-patents-supreme-court-unanimously-strikes-down-abstract-software ====== deciplex >We will work to ensure the Federal Circuit—the court that hears all patent appeals—diligently applies the new filter on patentability. Doesn't the Federal Circuit have something of a history on cases such as this, where they essentially say 'fuck it, we're not listening to the SCOTUS', and continue to rule as they please? What's to stop them from just doing business as usual in defiance of the Supreme Court? ~~~ jackgavigan Chief Justice Roberts will send Justices Kennedy and Ginsburg around to make an example of one of the Federal Circuit justices. Kind of like how the Mob do business but will gavels instead of baseball bats. "Ya know, that's a really nice bench ya got there. It'd be a pity if something were to happen to it..." PS: I think the premise of the Supreme Court justices enforcing their judgments, Mafia enforcer-style, would make a great graphic novel. I can see Ginsburg going all Tommy DeVito on some Federal Circuit judge's ass and burying the body in the Rose Garden. ~~~ zedadex One of my favorite Onion videos to date is "Supreme Court Rules Death Penalty 'Totally Badass'." Complete with court sketches and everything. ~~~ andy_ppp It is indeed totally badass: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyph_DZa_GQ&feature=kp](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyph_DZa_GQ&feature=kp) ~~~ tim333 Awesome ------ briantakita > the Supreme Court reaffirmed that merely adding “a generic computer to > perform generic computer functions” does not make an otherwise abstract idea > patentable. This statement (and the opinion itself) makes clear that an > abstract idea along with a computer doing what a computer normally does is > not something our patent system was designed to protect. This opinion gives me hope that reform is possible & that the U.S. government still works with reason. Now the question is are patents still relevant in today's world of internet, rapidly accelerating innovation, and evidence that free/open source research reduces costs? ~~~ rayiner Each generation of CPU design or gas turbine design or wireless baseband design, drug design, or nuclear power plant design still takes more R&D money than the last. And nobody was working on a competitive open source LTE baseband last I checked. "Accelerating innovation" is something which, if it exists, touches only a few areas of engineering. In most areas of engineering, innovation has gotten more expensive, not less. Very few things are amenable to a distributed group of hackers working on it. Jet engines are still best designed by a roomful of PhD's. And those cost lots of money. We can argue about how necessary patents ever were, but I don't think they're any less necessary today. The question, in my opinion, isn't whether patents are still relevant. Its whether we can draw lines better to leave out less useful ones while keeping that exception from swallowing the patent system. E.g. if a power control module for an LTE radio is patentable if implemented in an ASIC, should it become unpatentable when you implement it in a DSP? If not: how do you allow those patents while invalidating Amazon's One Click shopping patent? To a certain extent, its tempting to just say: "its too hard to draw the lines, its not worth the trouble." That's easy to say if you're not Qualcomm and don't have a dozen companies who'd love to use your work for free. ~~~ richardw _Jet engines are still best designed by a roomful of PhD 's. And those cost lots of money._ Possibly the wrong example for your argument :) Jet engines can now be designed by a team at SpaceX rather than at NASA, and the team can 3D-print them. That seems like reduced-cost innovation compared to decades past. [http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/06/02/elon- musk-m...](http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/06/02/elon-musk- makes-3-d-printing-history.aspx) (PS - I definitely don't disagree with your general point, but it might be becoming harder to know which areas need patents and which don't.) ~~~ chc I'm not quite sure what difference you're pointing out. Why does is matter if the PhDs are at SpaceX or NASA? ~~~ richardw Yes, I'm aware they aren't delegating the rocket design to the marketers. Smaller team, faster to market, cheaper. The discussion is around accelerating innovation and SpaceX perfectly demonstrates this, despite "rocket engines" being the earlier example given for how it's not true. ------ chc This is about the same thing that's already on the front page with 70 comments, including a great one by grellas. I'd go there if you're interested in this: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7916160](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7916160) ~~~ greenyoda That post was just a link to the actual Supreme Court decision. This article explains what it's about in language that's easier for people who aren't legal scholars to understand, so I think it serves a useful purpose. ~~~ icambron > This article explains what it's about in language that's easier for people > who aren't legal scholars to understand I really strongly disagree with this. Supreme Court decisions are usually quite readable and will give a you a nuanced overview of the legal background and justifications for the ruling. They're usually very accessible and not nearly as crammed with legal jargon as you might guess. I try to read as many important decisions as I can and I have no legal training at all. I only occasionally have to look up a term. I would say they're easier, on average, for me to read than a CS paper. And after reading a few Scotus papers, you'll have a much deeper understanding of how our legal system works, and of course a great deal more about the individual decisions. You'll even read news articles about a decision and say, "That's not what the decision was about at all!" Supreme Court rulings are, of course, quite long, and there's nothing wrong with a summary article like this one. But my point is that you shouldn't fear the legalese. ~~~ jallmann > Supreme Court rulings are, of course, quite long Interestingly, judges such as Richard Posner think recent opinions are too long. [http://www.law360.com/articles/455840/posner-says- justices-s...](http://www.law360.com/articles/455840/posner-says-justices- should-cut-bs-from-opinions) (Ignore the linkbait title; the article really is quite good.) ------ spacemanmatt This is great ammo for all the jack-wagons I encounter in daily life who counter my position on patents with the genius position, "What if someone came and just took your house, or your car away. That's your property and you wouldn't like it, would you?" ------ lostinpoetics while the decision is pretty tightly tailored, it seems like it's SCOTUS' way of opening the door for subsequent arguments regarding pure software patents. take google's page rank patent[1]. one could argue that assigning scores to, say, academic papers based on references cited and then doing that repeatedly is an "abstract idea" and google's recitation of "apply[ing] it" using a computer is not enough to enter into patent eligible subject matter. if you read/listen to the oral argument, the counter argument that doing so on a massive scale is impracticable was flatly rejected. indeed, a million monkeys counting the citations of scholarly pubs could probably perform that method on a decent sized corpus. is the method therefore inherently abstract? will be interesting to see if Alice alters the analysis (albeit slightly) for these types of questions and whether we'll see a pure software issue (without the negative financial/business method clouds in the background) sooner rather than later. [1] [http://www.google.com/patents/US6285999](http://www.google.com/patents/US6285999) ------ mtdewcmu What exactly is an abstract idea? Is it possible for an idea to be concrete? From looking at examples, "abstract" seems to mean trivial. By trivial, I don't mean obvious or silly, I mean small; i.e. an idea that can be reduced to one or two sentences, like "e-commerce shopping cart." Otherwise it's pretty hard to distinguish ideas about software from ideas about hardware and explain why one is more patentable than the other. ~~~ nardi An abstract idea isn't physical. You can patent a machine, or a drug. You can't patent a method for dividing two numbers. However, a _machine_ for dividing two numbers—assuming it's novel, not obvious, etc.—is fair game. ~~~ mtdewcmu Ok, but what's actually protected is the idea behind the machine, right? A different machine that employed the patented idea would infringe the patent. Maybe what is meant by "abstract idea" is really "an idea in the abstract," i.e. an idea that is not used to make a machine can't be patented; it's the employment of the idea that is patentable. ~~~ nardi You're getting confused by the word "idea." You patent a machine, not an idea. If you insist on saying that you patent the "idea" for a machine, then what you _can 't_ patent is an "idea about an idea." Ideas about machines are good. Ideas about ideas are no good. Make sense? ~~~ mtdewcmu I think I understand patents as well as any average non-lawyer. What I'm trying to do is make sense of the language used to describe patents. It's clear that people can't agree on what they are, because the Supreme Court keeps needing to step in and refine the definition. The language seems not to make sense, which would help to explain why people can't agree on what they are. Ok, you patent a machine. But that statement is vague and ambiguous at best. If I patent a machine that I built, then how could the patent apply to a different machine that I didn't build? Yet, that's the whole point: they apply to classes of machines, including machines that haven't even been built at the time that the patent is granted. The class would seem to be inherently something abstract. ------ higherpurpose My favorite part about this is that it shows how idiotic USPTO is for approving such patents in the first place. Hopefully, this will make them reconsider whether they should be approving other types of patents, too, before the Supreme Court puts them in a bad light again, but I'm not holding my breath. ~~~ spacemanmatt They do not care. ~~~ moron4hire They can't care. They don't set policy, Congress does. They just act out Congress' laws. ------ dsplatonov "Admittedly, the Supreme Court did not offer the clearest guidance on when a patent claims merely an abstract idea, but it did offer guidance that should help to invalidate some of the more egregious software patents out there." Where can i find this guidance? ------ jebblue Despite EFF syndrome, patents are a tool, they are not evil, patent trolls are evil, patents are just tools. ~~~ andy_ppp This was always going to be the case eventually (a task that was already performed, this just invalidates adding "on a computer"). It's much harder for the law (I would say impossible) to actually judge stuff that is obvious. For example wavelet patents in certain video codecs are absurd - improving fourier transforms in a very very obvious way - but it won't be obvious to a judge or a jury and certainly isn't covered by this supreme court decision. The more specialised people become in certain fields the more 'obvious' discoveries become. The law has no means to understand what rights it's protecting, and for how long they should be protected, which means it will never police the patent's system effectively, no matter what this judgement says. Given how fast software patents and technology change and that the law can't judge them effectively I would suggest that instead of all this mess can we not just have software patents that last a maximum of 5 years.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Dropbox Chooser - goronbjorn https://blog.dropbox.com/2012/11/meet-the-dropbox-chooser-a-new-way-to-add-stuff-from-dropbox/ ====== nikcub When we did this at Omnidrive we worked with other online storage providers and web app prodivers to do it in a standard way so that instead of 'Upload from Dropbox' you could specify any online service that implements the interface. for eg. the upload form could let you pick your Google Docs, or another account. We called it WebFS. I think the idea was too early and most of us ended up running out of money or being sold. I'd like to see the same idea implemented here again. Web app developers can implement an upload button that can open any URL. Similar to WebDAV but for web apps. ~~~ uams <https://www.filepicker.io> ? ------ bane I was kinda hoping this was official support for multiple accounts. ~~~ nacs I was hoping for the same but this would mean people could register dozens of accounts to get a lot more storage. ~~~ bane I have a paid work and a private dropbox. There's _got_ to be some way they could let you add as many paid accounts as needed and one free account. ~~~ zapt02 I have two accounts also, share a folder between them to sync. You have to pay double if you have a lot of data but with the new cheaper 100GB plans it doesn't burn a hole through your pocket. ------ jpsirois Interesting, similar to <https://www.filepicker.io/> ~~~ brettcvz Yup, it's great to see that Dropbox shares our vision of helping connect online storage to online applications, so the spirit is the right one. Our goal is for users to be able to connect directly to their online content, and we're working with Dropbox, Box, Google Drive, Skydrive, Facebook and others to make this happen. ~~~ johnrob Any project that lasts longer than a few months inevitably encounters some form of duplication from elsewhere. There should be a Metcalfe-esque law for that. ~~~ romain_dardour Being chased by a 800 pound gorilla is always scary. Hang on guys, I love your product and I'm sure you can embrace and extend :) ~~~ brettcvz Love the enthusiasm! To us, anything that helps makes products work more seamlessly together online is a win for the web and the world we want to see. It also seems like Dropbox is encouraging a different use case, in that the links they provide by default are Dropbox share links that route back to Dropbox, and even the direct ones expire after 4 hours. With Filepicker.io, we want to be a more complete filesystem solution, offering things like store to S3, read/write on the URLs, conversion, etc. To the cloud! ~~~ tarr11 Yup. You guys are doing a great job, I don't think of this as competitive. Image conversion is brilliant. Keep it up! ------ tomkin My immediate impression was this was going to be a way to switch Dropbox accounts. That would have been super cool. Not that having a Dropbox API for selecting files is bad. ------ SurfScore I do love how a guy from box added this link.... ~~~ goronbjorn Just staying on top of things ;) ------ serge2k I was looking into Dropbox integration in a Web applications just last night. Fantastic! ------ jedberg I was hoping this would be a way for me to choose which files I sync to which machines. ~~~ minikomi Heartily agree with this. I don't need my library of vintage drum machine samples at work, but would love to have my personal txt file wiki along for the ride. ~~~ steveh73 Can't you do this already? Maybe you just need to update your dropbox client. ~~~ minikomi Indeed I can! Awesome! ------ nopinsight This is a brilliant move by Dropbox. It is now becoming part of the Internet fabric and, if the move is successful, it will likely remain dominant--at least essential--for a very long time. Now if anyone knows how I can invest in it as soon as possible, I'd appreciate to know. (Email in profile.) ------ jayfuerstenberg It's worth noting that Dropbox Chooser is a javascript tool and intended for web applications. Native applications might still find it easier to directly access the dropbox folder (no need to know the user's account credentials and faster syncing than through the API with its rate limits). ------ NirDremer Google Drive exposed something similar few months ago. [http://googleappsdeveloper.blogspot.com/2012/08/allowing- use...](http://googleappsdeveloper.blogspot.com/2012/08/allowing-user-to- select-google-drive.html) Trello was amongst the firsts to add file picker support (great feature we use frequently). Funny to see that the first player Dropbox picks is Asana .. ------ mayneack Now they should get a "download to dropbox" method so it would be just another option instead of "save link as" ~~~ nodata O'Reilly offers this. <http://shop.oreilly.com/category/customer- service/dropbox.do> ~~~ mayneack Yeah, there's some services like this, but most of them have size caps (or in that case, deal with small files anyway). While it would be great for browsing on my phone, I'd really take advantage of this for downloading large files that would take a long time to download otherwise (especially since they'd then have to get uploaded by dropbox). ------ powrtoch I'm all for making it easier to work with the cloud, but... is this application really all that useful, considering that the whole concept of the Dropbox app is that all your Dropbox files are constantly kept in sync on your local machine? I think of this as the very essence of what Dropbox does, are there really very many situations where local copies would be unavailable? ~~~ ceejayoz > I think of this as the very essence of what Dropbox does, are there really > very many situations where local copies would be unavailable? I can think of a lot of situations where the local file is a gigabyte or more and I'd rather not sit around letting the web form upload it. With this, I can submit immediately, and the site can handle the heavy lifting on their backend. I get to wander off and do something productive. ------ yarrel Is this a web intent?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Building a CRUD Application with Flask and SQLAlchemy - sixhobbits https://www.codementor.io/garethdwyer/building-a-crud-application-with-flask-and-sqlalchemy-dm3wv7yu2 ====== sixhobbits Hi, author here :) I've written a few similar posts and would love to get feedback from HN. Using PostgreSQL through SQLAlchemy[0] Flask vs Django[1] [0] [https://www.compose.com/articles/using-postgresql-through- sq...](https://www.compose.com/articles/using-postgresql-through-sqlalchemy/) [1] [https://www.codementor.io/garethdwyer/flask-vs-django-why- fl...](https://www.codementor.io/garethdwyer/flask-vs-django-why-flask-might- be-better-4xs7mdf8v)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The Double-Entry Counting Method (2016) - dragonsh https://beancount.github.io/docs/the_double_entry_counting_method.html ====== notthemessiah The historical significance of Double-Entry bookkeeping can not be understated. Prior to Leonardo "Fibonacci" Bonacci bringing it to Pisa from the Arabs in Algiers, North Africa, there was no concept of "budget" for most merchants, each transaction was a separate affair, and consequently, finance could not scale. There were several attempts at international lending, and it bankrupted the Bardi and Paruzzi companies who lent lots of money to King Edward III, who ended up defaulting on it. The Medici family succeeded where others failed, providing a level of service in banking previously unparalleled, thanks to being able to manage complex cash flows through Double-Entry bookkeeping. (Fibonacci also introduced the Hindu-Arabic numeral system at a time where most of Europe was using Roman Numerals for arithmetic). It made the Republican city states of northern Italy on par with the political power of noble families, and as other countries caught up with Florence, one could, for the first time, seek an education outside of the Church and in their own country. Every programmer should be familiar with one descendant of double-entry bookkeeping: the integer. Though its binary representation may be more familiar, the formal mathematical construction of the integers consists of an equivalence class of pairs of natural numbers. In the Chinese "Nine Chapters on the Mathematical Art" they describe red and black counting rods denoting gains and losses, and the equivalence class being that taking away a red and black rod at the same time leaves the "total" or normalized form unchanged. Integers took a lot of time to be accepted in mathematical practice, but they were in use for far longer. ~~~ drieddust Intresting facts: 1\. Fibonacci didn't invent the series named after him. He was merely copying it from the Indians he came in contact. He himself admitted this 2\. Hindu arabic numerals are just Hindu numerals. Arabs didn't add anything. Roman numerals reached the world due to Beitish but they aren't called British-Roman numerals. ~~~ divyamistry Not doubting these points, but you should always cite peer-reviewed or otherwise verified sources. It makes all the difference between a fact and an opinion. This is especially true when contradicting a widely held belief. Without a verifiable source, these are just "interesting hypotheses". ~~~ drieddust I am glad you asked, here are the references. 1\. Please read "Liber Abaci". It is right there in the prologue section. Hard to find a free copy of this link hence posting a link to tweet[1] with screenshot of the relevent page. You can also cross verify with Italian version on archive.org[2] 2\. Same story repeat itself with Indian numbers and algorithms.[3][4] [1] [https://twitter.com/TIinExile/status/1198526477026807809](https://twitter.com/TIinExile/status/1198526477026807809) [2] [https://archive.org/details/LiberAbaci/page/n5/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/LiberAbaci/page/n5/mode/2up) [3] [https://twitter.com/TIinExile/status/1180777105778307072](https://twitter.com/TIinExile/status/1180777105778307072) [4] [http://kutubltd.com/book- details.aspx?CID=11&ID=30591](http://kutubltd.com/book- details.aspx?CID=11&ID=30591) ------ rocqua Can anyone explain why 'income' is negative and 'expenses' are positive? It seems to me like it should be the other way around. All I can think of is to ensure that sum (expenses) + sum (income) = delta(sum(assets) + sum(liabilities)) Over any given interval of time. But really, adding a single minus sign in the above equation would make the rest of the story so much more intuitive to beginners. I wonder if this is just an ossified bad choice, or if I am missing something. edit: [https://beancount.github.io/docs/the_double_entry_counting_m...](https://beancount.github.io/docs/the_double_entry_counting_method.html#credits- debits) answers my question. ~~~ wenc I took accounting in high school, and then again in college for my minor in management. I learned that in basic book-keeping on paper, the key really was just "classification"; that is, understanding what category an account was in (not immediately obvious for things like depreciation/amortization, etc). That determined the perspective from which things are seen, and so debit/credits became clear. However this method turned out to be really unwieldy to program on a computer (I even tried to build a double-entry book-keeping spreadsheet on Excel but failed). The author's method is far preferable and far more programmable -- I wish I had this insight in college. At the basic levels, book-keeping is about a couple of things: 1) Recording transactions in a "journal" 2) Posting from said journal to "accounts" (Dt/Cr) = i.e. double entry accounting 3) Doing reconciliations (e.g. bank reconciliation) to make your accounts consistent with some third-party 4) Doing cash flow analysis 5) Preparing Income Statements and Balance Sheets, which is used to analyze a company's cumulative/current position. Most accounting courses cover these steps (called "book-keeping") but real "accounting" is more than this: it's about getting insights from these numbers, by calculating useful ratios, KPIs etc. The real insight from accounting is being able to deduce a company's _strategy_ from their financial statements. Apparently this is one of the things Harvard Business School teaches in their MBA program that few schools do. Also, if you read lots of SEC 10-k filings (like Warren Buffet does), the claim is that one should be able to put together a story of what a company is doing by looking at how it's managing its money, what it is investing in, and so on. ------ dragonsh If you like this you will also like beancount[1] and fava [2]. The author of beancount initially started using ledger-cli and than to have a better adherence to accounting developed beancount in Python. Beancount has similar file format as ledger-cli with few modifications and can attach documents and metadata to entries. Also web interface fava provides a beautiful interface to it. [1] [https://github.com/beancount/beancount](https://github.com/beancount/beancount) [2] [https://github.com/beancount/fava](https://github.com/beancount/fava) ~~~ he9911z One of the main troubles I have with beancount/fava is their multiple currency behaviour. If I made some income in some foreign currency in say 1995, the amount would be shown to me as converted to my base currency at today's exchange rate, not at the rate that was in 1995 when the transaction actually happened. That makes sense for assets and liabilities, but not for incomes and expenses. The software fundamentally lacks an ability to make this distinction between these two different sets of accounts in this dimension. ~~~ dragonsh You can have multiple reports from beancount at current market rate, at original cost [1], at conversion cost of the commodity of your choice. [1] [https://beancount.github.io/docs/running_beancount_and_gener...](https://beancount.github.io/docs/running_beancount_and_generating_reports.html#rendering- at-cost) ~~~ he991z I mean when using the price system which the author recommends for multi- currency transactions. What you say is possible when using the cost system, but leads to a lot of other complications as it means maintaining an inventory/lots for these transactions, and the documentation also suggests not taking that route. ------ otoburb When I comb through financial statements (for fun, but not much profit yet) I always feel like I'm analyzing stack traces. How I wish there was a gdb/rr/Valgrind or similar debug framework for financial accounting statements. EDIT: Spreadsheet software helps a lot, but that's about the same as being given a hex editor. Necessary, but oh so tedious. ~~~ specialist Throwaway idea: Has anyone trained some auditing AI by feeding known fraud data sets into the machine? ~~~ EricE You don't need AI, just a well understood axiom: [https://analyticsindiamag.com/the-power-of-benfords-law- in-d...](https://analyticsindiamag.com/the-power-of-benfords-law-in-detecting- financial-fraud/) People have been pretty smart throughout history, not just the last few decades. AI has to be one of the most overhyped solutions in the 20th century. ------ lmilcin I have been taught accounting along with micro/macro economics and bunch of other useful financial topics at equivalent of high school and I am really happy that I did even if I did not appreciate it at the time and went for completely different studies and job (studied theoretical mathematics, working as a software developer). What I have noticed is that people who don't have any accounting background tend to think single entry when they look at their accounts and this frequently prevents them from understanding what is actually happening. ------ victor106 >"Income numbers are negative, and Expenses numbers are positive. So if you earned more than you spent (a good outcome), the final sum of Income + Expenses balances will be a negative number" This is kind of counter intuitive. You would think of income as being positive and expenses being negative. This is why accounting trips me up. ~~~ nybble41 The problem is that you're thinking of "income" as "the amount of money I received". That would, of course, always be a positive number. Income accounts actually represent the _source_ of income, such as a customer or employer; you received money from somewhere, and so the balance of that source has decreased, while your own assets have increased. Expenses are just the opposite: a negative entry in your asset account, counterbalanced by a positive entry in the expense account representing the recipient of the money. Your loss is their gain. You could flip it around but then your own asset accounts would have negative balances. Or you could do what some accounting systems do and selectively negate the balances for credits and debits depending on the type of account, but that's just confusing all around. ------ leephillips This is the most clearly written article about any topic of accounting that I have ever seen.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Study About IP On The Human Genome Shows That Patents Hindered Innovation - yanw http://techdirt.com/articles/20100727/03224210373.shtml ====== lutorm I guess that's not surprising. It's more surprising to me that anyone allowed patenting of the human genome in the first place. How someone could equate "sequencing" with "inventing" boggles my mind. There are billions of examples of prior art walking around among us, for crying out loud! It's as if whoever "rediscovered" cuneiform writing should have been able to patent it... ~~~ brfox The patents are for the use of these molecules as drugs in order to treat a disease. That is a very non-obvious and inventive process to figure out which of the 25000 genes in the human body will be useful as a drug - and what the exact composition of that drug should be and how to make it, administer it, etc. ~~~ sliverstorm I don't believe genome patents require you to show how you've invented a process to use the genome- only the string of letters on a piece of ticker tape. ------ brfox I haven't read the actual study - just the presentation in this link. However, I would be REALLY hesitant to conclude anything from this other than Celera chose uninteresting things to make patent applications on. The "outcome" for innovation in this study was whether or not a gene test exists, and that is not what Celera was trying to get IP on. They were trying to find drugs or drug targets - and that is a difficult process. The fraction of good drug targets in the human genome compared to the total number of genes is very, very small. ~~~ sprout The fraction of good drug targets in the human genome compared to the total number of genes is probably astronomical, but to think that a single gene is going to give you much information is laughable. The number of proteins involved in any given disorder or disease is far too large. Which, incidentally, is why you shouldn't be able to patent testing for single genes, since that is the most rudimentary example of what genetic testing has to offer.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
A Warning About JQuery 3 - un_montagnard http://blog.bugsnag.com/a-warning-about-jquery-3 ====== nilliams It's good to see this was recognised as a bug and quickly fixed. Meanwhile in spec-adhering Promise land, a similar problem still exists [1], which is why I recently banished es6-promise, and in turn fetch/fetch-polynomial from my codebases. [1] [http://requirebin.com/?gist=8f13d5147c1c252ab1691115bfa8b7c5](http://requirebin.com/?gist=8f13d5147c1c252ab1691115bfa8b7c5) ------ kentor Wouldn't catch instead of fail be more compliant with es6 promises?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
How to build your own AlphaZero AI using Python and Keras - _emacsomancer_ https://medium.com/applied-data-science/how-to-build-your-own-alphazero-ai-using-python-and-keras-7f664945c188 ====== pixelpoet I'd really like a good tutorial for combining MCTS with NNs, but this tutorial didn't help me at all really. MCTS is easy enough to learn on its own, but the details of connecting it to NN learning is still mysterious to me after having read this. Of course I could go and study the LeelaZero or minigo code, but I was hoping for a nice readable introduction. ~~~ weavie It's still in early access, but this could be of interest to you : [https://www.manning.com/books/deep-learning-and-the-game- of-...](https://www.manning.com/books/deep-learning-and-the-game-of-go). ~~~ pixelpoet This looks really good, thanks! ------ tim333 The same article was up 2 months ago, 55 comments [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16240234](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16240234)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Pallet, Clojure Dev Ops like Chef and Puppet - flashingpumpkin http://palletops.com/ ====== flashingpumpkin I really like that they opted to do everything over SSH in contrast to both Chef and Puppet that need a client/server configuration or at least some of their packages installed locally. We do all of our deployments with Chef Solo and push our Cookbooks via Fabric over SSH to our servers. Pallet is definitely something to have a deeper look at as I don't like installing more than the bare essentials of what our apps need on our servers for various reasons.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Starship SN5 150m Hop - reddotX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1HA9LlFNM0 ====== w_t_payne Is the engine supposed to be on fire like that?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Host your own is cynical - chmars http://tante.cc/2013/05/20/host-your-own-is-cynical/ ====== PaulHoule I'm not sure the world cynical is right. I'm reminded by a person who was involved with the independent media center movement who couldn't bear letting people post MP3s to his site, so people only could upload oggs, which mean that he was the only uploader and I was the only other person would could hear/see anything.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
ACME Support in Apache HTTP Server Project - jaas https://letsencrypt.org/2017/10/17/acme-support-in-apache-httpd.html ====== cholmon I'm curious how renewals will be handled. According to [https://github.com/icing/mod_md/wiki#no-auto-restart-when- st...](https://github.com/icing/mod_md/wiki#no-auto-restart-when-started-as- root) "...you have to manually restart httpd for any certificate changes to take effect." It's easy enough to have a daily cronjob that just reloads Apache unconditionally, but that feels dirty. ~~~ ridruejo Apache supports graceful restarts, in which new children processes are spawned and old ones replaced without dropping existing connections ~~~ jldugger This doesn't affect certain portions of Apache, like the part that handles TLS. ~~~ ridruejo Recent versions of Apache (2.4.x) do support it ~~~ jldugger Ah, guess I should review the documentation more frequently. ------ baby About the elephant in the room: Let’s Encrypt is becoming too big to fail. Wasn’t the point of open sourcing the whole protocol so that we could have multiple CAs like Lets Encrypt? ~~~ diafygi It seems that running a free CA doesn't really have a business model, so capitalism isn't going to produce viable competitors. Additionally, other impact-focused people (non-profits, etc.), who would otherwise be willing to make a free CA, probably think Let's Encrypt is doing good enough, so why waste valuable time making the same thing when you could focus on having an impact elsewhere? I suspect this is a pretty common end result in public-good tasks that don't have business models. They naturally grow to be too big to fail. Some governments try to solve this by just absorbing the task and making it a part of the government's responsibilities. I doubt this would happen for Let's Encrypt, so I guess we'll be stuck with a too-big-to-fail non-profit until it fails, starts to suck too much, gets absorbed by the government, or someone figures out a business model. ~~~ Touche I would think (hope) that big ad companies like Google and Facebook would find that the proliferation of https is good for business and provide a free CA ~~~ diafygi Both Facebook and Chrome/Google are top-level sponsors of Let's Encrypt. So I guess you are correct and they have? ------ Ajedi32 This is going to be huge for HTTPS adoption on the web. In the future all web servers should have this feature. I wonder which will be next? IIS? Nginx? ~~~ icebraining Klaus Krapfenbauer, a participant of Mozilla Winter Of Security, already implemented a PoC module for Nginx: [https://github.com/mozilla/mwos- letsencrypt-2015](https://github.com/mozilla/mwos-letsencrypt-2015) Unfortunately, it seems to be very dead. ~~~ apple4ever That sucks. Besides the dumb low cert expiration length, built in support for Nginx is why I haven't adopted Let's Encrypt. ~~~ jjeaff The low cert expiration date is by design. If you don't have a script renewing it automatically, you aren't doing it right. ------ jpb0104 This is awesome. We're having early success with [https://github.com/GUI/lua- resty-auto-ssl](https://github.com/GUI/lua-resty-auto-ssl) \+ [https://openresty.org/](https://openresty.org/) to support thousands of custom domains. ------ throwaway0071 This is why I think projects like caddy/traefik shouldn't get too comfortable thinking Let's Encrypt / HTTPS support by default alone is going to differentiate them too much. They're one PR away from having their major selling point becoming irrelevant in the face of the competition. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15433463](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15433463) ~~~ hannob Caddy is written in a memsafe language. (I don't use caddy, but I always saw the "HTTPS by default" thing more as a nice thing to have, but not hugely important given that you can have the same with external scripts in apache or nginx. But being memsafe is the real distinguisher and one that certainly isn't reachable with a pull req in apache or nginx.) ~~~ kuschku Caddy doesn’t even adhere to the URL RFCs. The URL RFCs specifically say that a DNS name in a URL can be written relatively, or absolutely with the root zone. These are valid URLs: [https://google.com/](https://google.com/) and [https://google.com./](https://google.com./) As you notice, both work fine. Same with every major site, and every major webserver. Now, you’ll notice that [https://caddyserver.com/](https://caddyserver.com/) works, but [https://caddyserver.com./](https://caddyserver.com./) doesn’t. Caddy, the server, doesn’t support it, but you have to enter every domain twice manually. And caddy, the website, doesn’t support it either. This was closed as a WONTFIX, despite every implementation of a webserver except for traefik and caddy doing it the same way. ~~~ chrismorgan > Same with every major site, and every major webserver. I last tried this a few years back (probably around 2011). I found that a substantial fraction of major sites did _not_ support it, and a substantial fraction of those that seemed to support it produced web pages that were at least partially broken. ~~~ kuschku I tried it in 2016 again, and under the alexa top million sites, I found basically all supported it, even if just with a redirect. Mostly because nowadays every CDN, nginx, Apache2, IIS and HAProxy all support it by default. ~~~ icebraining IIS might support it, but Microsoft doesn't (universally): social.technet.microsoft.com, live.com, bing.com, office.com, skype.com all fail to properly load or redirect. As does instagram.com and linkedin.com. ------ convefefe It's good to see that Apache gets native support for this, I sincerely hope NGINX will follow. ------ lol768 I'm curious, which email does it use to register with? I didn't see one in the config file. ~~~ jaas Supplying an email address to Let's Encrypt is optional. ~~~ tialaramex ... but if you don't supply one of course Let's Encrypt won't notify you about anything. So if you aren't paying attention you may get blind-sided by any future change, particularly if your use case is weird e.g. you can only pass http-01 by HTTP 301 redirecting to a machine with a completely different hostname, works today, could get outlawed as dangerous one day and they'd have the records to show you're going to be affected, but no way to automatically warn you. ~~~ mholt I recommend always monitoring server logs as a last line of defense (or first, honestly) for these kinds of things. ~~~ Ajedi32 Do Apache's server logs notify you if your cert is about to expire, but hasn't yet? ~~~ majewsky Expiration dates on your TLS certs is usually something that you want to monitor and alert on anyway. I'd actually build the monitoring separately from the renewal process, just in case that the renewal process doesn't notice that it fails. ------ muppetman Gosh I can't believe how embarrassing this post is for the LE team. All that time, effort and hard work let down by using the "nano" editor in the Youtube video. (This is of course, fantastic news and great to see it'll be even easier for non-technical people to use HTTPS with little effort) ------ thresh Are there any other CAs that support ACME? Is ACME an Internet standard yet? Is that turning into monoculture? ~~~ tialaramex Other CAs have made interested noises. Big ones have indicated to m.d.s.policy or CA/B that they are, at least, paying attention to the RFC process and some are participating in standardisation. ACME is at Working Group Last Call. Which means the IETF Working Group (people who thought this was interesting/ important) thinks it's finished but await feedback from outsiders who might not have realised this was coming or are too busy to look at in-progress designs. It will be published as a Standards Track RFC making it an "Internet Standard" in due course. A monoculture is at least an improvement over the Wild West we had prior to the Ten Blessed Methods. As recently as last year any CA could decide (on its own recognizance) that any method it chose was adequate to verify Domain Control, under a heading "Any Other Method" in the Baseline Requirements. If your CA was happy with a method so dumb nobody should possibly have used it, we'd have to find out about that, explain why it's dumb, and then you'd get told to stop doing it, often taking several weeks to achieve. A list of just ten explicit methods was written, the Ten Blessed Methods, and now CAs must use one or more of those. ACME implements three today, and is designed to be extensible. Some methods involve things like human lawyers writing physical letters, it is unlikely ACME will embrace that sort of manual process directly, but methods involving email or the WHOIS system could end up in there. ------ dtzur Now if they could only catch that Road Runner!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
To Learn How to Program, It Has To Fulfill A Need - djblue2009 http://djchung.tumblr.com/post/40104231149/to-learn-how-to-program-it-has-to-fulfill-a-need ====== Aardwolf Heh, in my case when I started to learn how to program, the need was "having fun" I guess. ~~~ djblue2009 That's a valid point. Did you start programming at an early age? I only ask because I'm coming from the perspective of picking up programming a little later in life (well, after graduating college). I think as we get older and we get preoccupied with career, friends, etc - it's a little harder to stick with new skills or hobbies just for fun. ~~~ Aardwolf Yes, I started when I was 12 or so. In QBasic. When I discovered you could make graphics with it, the fun just did not stop. Somehow I managed to make a space shooter game by modifying the code of "gorillas.bas". ------ kyllo I agree, with the qualifier that the "need" can be something that you made up. Like you, I started learning programming after college, and I worked through courses, books, lecture slides, tutorials, read library docs, etc. but I learn the most at times when I actually sit down and go through the whole process of designing and building a complete application that does something useful. This year I've made it a goal to write code every day, with the intention of this culminating in launching at least one complete web application this year as a side business for extra income. I have a couple of solid ideas that I think I can build (and sell), but the only way to learn how to build something is by trying to build it. Tutorials and courses are great and are necessary up front, but your fingers really need to be typing code that is generated by your brain, often, in order for it to stick. ~~~ djblue2009 completely agree. Also, learning to read documentation is such an invaluable skill. Just doing tutorials removes the need to figure out how to find things yourself. Until you try to build something that requires you to go beyond what you've learned in those tutorials, you won't learn how to read the docs. ------ short_circut I absolutely agree. If it doesn't fulfill some need then it doesn't get used. If it doesn't get used I never practice it or get better and thus forget it. This is why everytime I have a problem best solved by python I have to relearn it. With out a problem you don't explore. ------ ryanlchan This reminds me: I'd love to see how many of CodeYear's sign-ups completed a term. I have lots of friends who want to "learn to code" but get frustrated and quit. It's too easy to give up if you don't have "something bigger" continually pushing you forward. ~~~ djblue2009 I think those sorts of things (I include Codeacademy in there as well) are good to just expose people to programming and a way of thinking. I'm not so sure those "learn to program" programs will produce many professional software engineers, but I think they're great introductions. ------ freework This describes why I have such a hard time learning new languages. I want to learn Haskell, but I always end up giving up, because whatever I'm trying to do in Haskell, I can do in Python very easily. ~~~ Peaker So you will never dare to lose sight of shore to reach new lands? ~~~ freework Why search for new land when you have no need to leave the land you're already on? ~~~ Peaker I thought you recognized such a need by wanting to learn a new language and ideas.. I did Python for 7 years before I realized Haskell had huge advantages I find very important and it took an extra two years of gradual transition until I had dropped Python completely. ------ djblue2009 Also, there is nothing like the pressure of having to deliver on a project that someone is paying you for. Necessity is the best teacher. ------ thoughtpalette Ambition & Passion are great drivers as well. In the end, you should love what you do. ~~~ djblue2009 I agree to some degree. I think ambition is absolutely necessary, but I think passion is something that can be developed over time. I've had some false starts in trying to learn how to program and each time I did have some thoughts that maybe I'm not "passionate" about programming. But I found that my passion, appreciate, love, etc for programming grew when I stuck with it, got better and realized what all I could do with it. Maybe this was the case for me because programming just didn't click for me in the beginning. I'd argue that we don't just have predisposed passions, but rather passions develop as we go beyond the surface level of our interests. ------ rhokstar Yep. I'm learning Python so I can program for Leap Motion	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Check out my new sports startup Chestbumpp - dannyp32 http://chestbumpp.com Chestbumpp allows you to create and join sports groups to compete with athletes in your area. Each group will be for a specific sport and it will have an overall skill level and time/location where the group usually meets. I'm also thinking about giving players a rep or allowing other players to give each other "props" to keep the community competitive. What do you think of the idea? I'd really appreciate your feedback since this will be my first startup. Thanks. ====== dannyp32 I'm hoping to launch by the end of the year. I'm a student as well, so I want to give myself enough time so that I can still focus on school. We're really excited about it though. It seemed to get a good response on betali.st ~~~ dannyp32 Accidentally commented instead of replying. ------ dsyph3r Quite like the idea if this. How long till its available?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
How We Tried 5 Privacy Focused Raspberry Pi Projects - ophelia https://blog.cryptoaustralia.org.au/2017/10/05/5-privacy-focused-raspberry-pi-projects/ ====== fulafel Last time I looked, about 6 months ago, Raspbian didn't get timely security updates, and the only low-maintenance distros that supported RPi & had their patching act together seemed to be Ubuntu & SuSe. Debian doesn't support the RPi. Even if you put the RPi on your network "just for fun", it can cause much havoc when someone pwns it and joins it to a botnet or uses it as a stepping stone into your home network. ~~~ ophelia Is there an alternative, more active distro worthwhile looking into? Alternatively, you can install Windows on the Pi to get updates ;) ~~~ fulafel Ubuntu or SuSe. Or Arch like another comment said, if you don't mind setting up everything yourself.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: Review our startup, PollerBare - nmaio Hey everyone. Our site, http://pollerbare.com has been live for about 10 months. It's a site for indie musicians to post their music in a downplayed battle of the bands theme.<p>We have kind of put this project on the back burner because we don't see how we can monetize it right now.<p>For a while, we thought we should pivot to pictures (become a hot or not/dating site, ehhh) or videos (via youtube). We even finished sketching up the UI/UX for the videos pivot, but pulled off last second.<p>Any thoughts? Thanks in advance! ====== keiferski 1\. The UX needs some work. It looks late 90s-ish. 2\. The name is a little cheesy. I'd really consider changing it. 3\. It's not immediately obvious how to play songs. Can you put a play button under each song? Ditto for picking the winner - put a "This is the best song" button under each song. I do like the music though. :) And it's a cool idea. Have you considered approaching local Battle of the Bands competitions and getting them on the site? Sell it as a all-in-one promotional type of thing. ~~~ nmaio 1\. You're definitely right. We're not front-end guys really. 2\. Haha, really? Is the logo cheesy too? We kind of thought it was clever and cute all in one. "Poll" on "bare" (raw) music talent. Fair enough though! 3\. Yeah, we've been trying to work on making it less confusing. Will do though. Surprisingly, there's some good music on there, right? We've gone to local music festivals and whatnot - but not with much luck so far. We'll keep trying though. ------ erichcervantez The logo looks cute even though I'm not sure what it has to do with music. I agree the user-interface needs a lot of work. Maybe a nice splash page which clearly shows what the site is for could help. Splash pages don't need a lot of design...even a large picture would do. I was just looking at Path's site (<https://www.path.com>) which did just that.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Is css-tricks.com updating their site? - hubtree https://css-tricks.com/ ====== kostarelo CodePen also has been redesigned. Not sure about their site.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
C# Tutorials, Lessons, and Reference \| Gimme CSharp - rueleonheart http://gimmecsharp.blogspot.com/ ====== RiderOfGiraffes Dear ruelionheart, I refer you to my article here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1606098> Please - stop spamming Hacker News. And let me just add that even though I simply _love_ getting the gorgeous Russian girls on my screen, begging me for a date, showing me their assets, I won't be visiting your site ever again. Thanks.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: Coolest/most useful tools implemented in browser? - JCOdom I am a front end developer, and with the browser becoming more and more powerful over the years (JS standardization, emscripten, wasm, webgpu), I'm curious to look at some of the powerful tools that people are building in the browser.<p>I tried searching on Github (language: js) and Google, but the vast majority of the results are for node.js projects - I am having a hard time filtering out the 'purely front end' projects.<p>Could you please share some of your favorites? ====== nirav72 [https://gchq.github.io/CyberChef/](https://gchq.github.io/CyberChef/) ------ rikschennink [https://doka.photo/](https://doka.photo/) an browser based image editor and [https://pqina.nl/doka/](https://pqina.nl/doka/) the editor component doka.photo is based on. Disclaimer: I'm the developer behind these tools :) ------ jones1618 I'm not sure what "powerful tools ... in the browser" means for you, but here are some pure front-end JavaScript projects that I find to be powerful: 1. "Live" documents/notebooks like: * Tangle - http://worrydream.com/Tangle/ * Mozilla Iodide - https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/03/iodide-an-experimental-tool-for-scientific-communicatiodide-for-scientific-communication-exploration-on-the-web/ 2. Visualization libraries: * D3.js - https://d3js.org/ * Vega - https://vega.github.io/vega/ 3. Processing - http://processingjs.org/ ------ robertbalent [https://www.photopea.com/](https://www.photopea.com/) \- Full featured image editor in browser. ------ actionowl These are all a bit old, but I still think they're cool! [https://bellard.org/jslinux/](https://bellard.org/jslinux/) [https://github.com/marmelab/gremlins.js](https://github.com/marmelab/gremlins.js) [http://processingjs.org](http://processingjs.org) ------ egfx My animation studio [https://gif.com.ai](https://gif.com.ai) ------ init www.soundtrap.com uses the web audio APIs and WebRTC to build a music making app in the browser. ------ 0x1221 JupyterLab ------ machawinka draw.io	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Every Lost episode visualized and recreated - Adrock http://intuitionanalytics.com/other/lostalgic/ ====== dt7 This is pretty fun to play around with, if a bit difficult to navigate- I kept flying all over the place when trying to look at a particular episode in the initial view. Amazing work anyway, and as a (heavy) Lostpedia contributor (around the season 3 days) it's nice to see the data being used in interesting ways.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Crowdsourced homework help - dalacv http://www.hwcrowd.com/ ====== anuy is this not Homework plagiarism. i am not sure why people can not use the regular resources 1)do prepare for the class befor e the lecture 2) follow the lectures in class room/virtual class room 3) follow up with the professor/tutor for questions 4) work in a study group (in a room /or virtual) for better understanding of material 5) do home works on own. ~~~ dalacv you make a good point. there could be a setting that asks the responder to not provide the answer. Sometimes kids just need more worked examples to understand how to do problems.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
My company's first SaaS app. Thoughts? - fookyong http://peterpings.com/ 2013 will hopefully be a move away from B2C stargazing, bread-and-butter client work (app development etc) and a move towards scalable software services. ====== josscrowcroft Could this also work for an already-established but un-marketed company? So it's not strictly a "launch email" but just a press release? My site[0] first launched almost 18 months ago and had a fair bit of buzz, but I never did the marketing-to-tech-blogs side of things. There are a few new things I want to push out first (company blog, etc.) but do you think your service would be suitable for it? [0] <https://openexchangerates.org> Btw - great work on the site, looks lovely. ~~~ fookyong yes absolutely! I should make that clearer - it's suitable for any "newsworthy" event, like a launch or an update or if you previously have not liased with the tech blog community. That said, as I've elaborated in another post, it's quite closely tied to the iTunes API right now so if you're not an iPhone/iPad app it won't work for you. We can work on that though! ~~~ fookyong Thank you so much! From this HN post it's pretty clear that there's some demand for an "any app" approach. We will get to work :) Totally agree about the case studies and when there are some noteworthy ones you can bet we will show it off on the homepage. Typical chicken/egg issues preventing that right now though! ~~~ apapli Totally agree. I've been building a rails web app and have been trying to work out how to do the PR. I'd be super keen to see your site cater for the web and not just iPhone. Also, love the design. Clean, crisp and very simply and elegantly tells your story. Well done. ------ tajim How are the submissions sent. Is it all automated or you send it manually On the Publisher list page you say: "We send your notification via online forms, emails, twitter and exclusive partnerships." This sounds like you are doing it manually. Good service though :) ~~~ fookyong Ah thanks! We should make that clearer. For each publisher it breaks down to one of these methods: 1) submission via their online form. we do this automatically via POST. 2) if their form has a captcha, we queue it for manual submission by a human being (most don't have a captcha though - it's just the big guys) 3)email. the majority of sites encourage submissions via an email address. 4) twitter - worst case scenario is we tweet their account for you 5) publishing partner. similar to (3) email, except the publisher can set their preferred time to receive. All of the above except (2) is automated. I'd guesstimate that for about 95% of the publishers we support, the submissions are all handled by the software. We want to build it as scalable as possible. ------ clarky07 Well I'll be the guinea pig. Just gave it a shot with one of my apps that I was planning on doing a New Years resolution press release for (it's a debt tracker). I'll be sure to give an update of how it works out. ~~~ fookyong awesome! I'd love to hear your thoughts. Email me anytime at yongfook @ peterpings.com ------ fookyong For us (a two-man shop) 2013 represents a move away from B2C stargazing and client work (iphone app development etc) - and a move towards scalable software services. This is the first step! ------ pablasso Congrats on shipping, I really think this is a good market. Any chance that you can personalize a few of the emails sent? I might want to add or remove a few things only for some blogs. ~~~ fookyong definitely more tools are on the way for that purpose. we want to strike a good balance between hands-off awesomeness and ability to tweak. ------ ochekurishvili Youngfook, congrats with launching another online venture. I'm your "follower" since the days of OpenSourceFood. The most important question I raise with submission services (like your PeterPings and AppLaunch) is that followed traffic would not be targeted. "Why A Link from TechCrunch Will Not Make You Rich" - this excellent article by Rob Walling better describes this issue: <http://j.mp/VXJoDp> ~~~ fookyong Thanks for the support! I'd answer by saying that we are not a "make you rich" service. For that, we'd be charging a lot more! Distributing your information to various sites just increases the chances of you being discovered. The more you put yourself out there, the more you're likely to be reviewed or mentioned or shared. This is PR 101. It's not going to turn you into a millionaire overnight, but it's just one of those things you __should __be doing. That article leaves out an important dimension: time. Sure, one blog post isn't going to net you hundreds of sales. But over a long enough timeline, could it net you dozens of sales? What if you multiplied that by 150+ different sites? This is long tail / long term. Peterpings takes the time/effort out of this thing that you __should __be doing, so you have more time to dedicate to product development, or a more creative marketing campaign! ~~~ ochekurishvili Makes sense... As a customer I'd use PeterPings for boosting traffic in hope that it converts few sales time over time, but I wouldn't be relied on it. ------ michaelmartin Congrats on the app launch (To give a different take on someone else's comment; I've been a fan of yours since you introduced my girlfriend to puchi puchis years ago!) I'm curious about how you time all of this. Do the 170 invitations get sent out simultaneously (Bar the manual captcha ones), or is it more staggered? e.g. Could the big fish like Techcrunch and such expect to be notified first normally, or is it a blast to everyone? I'm also curious what your plans are to keep your service's reputation with the bloggers on the receiving end intact (The fact it is paid for, and not too cheap, really helps this I imagine), but anything else you have in mind? e.g. Do yous do any kind of filtering of the submissions? ~~~ fookyong haha puchi puchi... blast from the past. the way Peterpings works is you set a time that you want your notification to be delivered and it delivers in the publisher's local time. So if you say "I want publishers to see this at 9am on Monday" - the UK blogs will see it at their Monday 9am, and the US blogs will see it at their Monday 9am. And so on. Delivery time is super important, as me and my co-founder have experienced many times first-hand. As for reputation, you're right in that there is a natural filter, that being cost. Beyond that we have thought about narrower targeting / filtering but in the end it has to be up to the blogger. The more blogs we introduce, the more tools we will create for those bloggers - for example to only receive a certain genre of app notification (e.g. games). And we will always be transparent about the number of blogs that your notification goes to. Nobody wants to know that they are sending something to a blogger who doesn't want to receive it. ~~~ michaelmartin Ah I didn't realise that about the timings, that's a great solution. I definitely like the sound of localising that to each blogger. The filtering tools sound great too, it's great to see yous already have plans for that area. Looking forward to seeing how it progresses, best of luck! ------ bdunn Congrats on shipping! Only nitpick - it looks like you charge transactionally (pay as you go.) Wouldn't that make this NOT a SaaS app? Best of luck! Might give it a shot with my product. ~~~ fookyong doh! what's the correct terminology? ~~~ dmix It's still a software service even if it's structured transactionally. ------ niyogi great idea. if you're finding that sales go up dramatically too quickly you might want to consider raising prices to weed out shitty startups. your service is only as good as how your partner publishers value the stories you submit. one way to mitigate that is by having a high price floor that only "serious startups" will pay for. ------ madpilot Looks cool! How specific to iPhone/iPad apps are the email templates? I could see it being useful for web apps too… ~~~ fookyong Right now it's pretty specific to iPhone / iPad. Reason being, in order to pre-populate the templates for a customer, we search the iTunes API and grab data about their app (screenshots, name, price etc). I guess to support "any" app including web apps, there could just be a manual override for this step. I'll put it on the ideas list! ~~~ jeswin Please do that. I just opened up my app today (<http://www.poe3.com>), and when I saw this I was like WOW! But then it asked me for the iTunes app name. :) ------ alexjeffrey It sounds like I'm not the only one here who wants to use this for marketing a web app - do you have some sort of a mailing list I can subscribe to for updates? I'm sending you an email directly but if you do I'd like to subscribe. If not you may be missing a charm! ~~~ fookyong sorry to reply late but if you sign up I'll add you to the user mailing list - we'll be notifying all users when we add Android and Web app support! ------ sfalbo I like this concept. I tried to signup to give it a try with my iPad app iJuror but it looks like the App Search only looks for iPhone or Universal apps. Is there another way to go about adding an iPad only app? ~~~ fookyong just added ipad support! ~~~ sfalbo Great, thank you. Best of luck with this venture. ------ monkey_slap I'll be using this for my app launch in February. Just so I'm clear, your app has to already be approved on the app store? So you could time your app launch date and Ping at the same time, or nearly the same time? ------ andretti1977 Well, during the last few weeks i tried to imagine an easy-to-implement but also effective online PR service: i think you definetively realize a great solution! It is simple but really functional. Congratulations! ------ robertwalsh0 Signed up, I don't have an iPhone app so this won't work for me. Would like to delete my account but pretty sure there's no way to do that on the 'my account' page. ~~~ fookyong what kind of app do you have? we're just getting started :) ~~~ rexreed Can this work for web / SaaS apps? ------ tgandrews Why is it iPhone App marketing? A lot of the publications write stories about android and web apps as well. Trying to focus on a niche? ~~~ fookyong nope, trying to launch! :) At launch we support iPhone / iPad apps. but Android is definitely in the works - after all some of our publishers are Android-only. ------ ckevinc How does a publisher get on your list? ~~~ fookyong it's hand-curated right now but we will definitely open it up a bit more publicly at some point! if you have a suggestion of who to include, let me know at yongfook @ peterpings.com ------ bedspax Pretty cool. How are your sales going? ~~~ fookyong just launched like a few hours ago so it's a little early to disclose :) we've had a few early adopters who signed up for the beta last month open their wallets, but it looks like HN hasn't driven any sales yet! ;)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Why Google Should Buy the Music Industry - gammarator http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2011/04/why-google-should-buy-music-industry.html ====== ethank A few things, and I'm speaking as a (now former) major label executive: Google should not buy a label or a music company. It wouldn't make sense at all. The friction going on right now is because Google views music as something that the labels don't. They view it as data that makes their device better. The music industry views it as intellectual property. I side with Google on this, depending on WHAT Google wants to do with the data. If they are common carrier, locker in the sky. Great. But as soon as they use it as a means of advertising/marketing (a la Youtube) they are stepping into waters that the RIAA has nothing to do with. It's just normal, silly US copyright law and the contracts that our heroes the artists signed. On the other side, imagine if the labels went to Google and demanded all their source code so they could setup their own internal Google and make them some money that way, to add value to their technology. Just as silly. The other thing: don't conflate the "Music industry" with the big 4. They are not one and the same. The Music Industry is a HUGE thing that uses and represents the most long lasting of culture artifacts in terms of marketability. It includes Spotify, Soundcloud, Songkick, Hypemachine, Big Champagne, CrowdSurge, Apple, Google (through YouTube right now), Amazon, etc. Then the management companies: The Firm, The Collective, QPrime, Red Light. A vast space. Some operate on the infrastructure level, some license content, some fill voids and some you've never heard of. That being said, the future of the music INDUSTRY is the disintermediation of the big 4 by means of a restructuring of what they do. Artists don't need them if they don't want them, and certainly the companies that make up the industry know this (see Fanbridge, TopSpin, etc). The industry in the last two years has diversified substantially. The real power is transferring to management companies, startups, distribution, artist services, open-source technology and API based business development. What will happen to the big 4, and starting with 2 (WMG and EMI) is new owners, and hopefully an entrepreneurial sensibility informing their restructuring. They need to be nimble, technology forward, representing their artists using technology and manning up when it comes to the value of their content (because there is value, and "free" is value if done correctly). Anyhow, blog posts for another day. ~~~ fletchowns What do you think about Steve Albini's rant on the music industry? Has the distribution of who gets what changed much in the last 20 years? <http://www.negativland.com/albini.html> ~~~ ethank To a degree the broad points are still valid. However the economics are a lot more complicated now because of 360 deals. A while ago, labels realized that if they were investing a lot into a band on things like art, tour support, promotions and marketing, it was silly when other third party companies made the money, often with worse splits with the band. 360 or all-rights deals mean that the label helps with all aspects of the band from Fanclub to touring and publishing, and splits profits, usually 50/50 on all but recorded music (which has different splits) So basically the band an label are in a agency/client model. This is great if the label can deliver on the promise of the deal. That is why I was brought into a label, for in house tech. Not happening as much right now but that can change. This is a similar way CAA and William Morris work. Shared risk/reward and if done properly on both sides can leads to more incremental gains earlier and with less upfront spending. ------ SkyMarshal I wish Google would find a way to undermine the music industry instead. Actually Amazon may be better positioned for such a move. I am not an expert but it seems the basic trade the music industry offers artists is, recording, publishing, distribution, and promotion in return for ownership of the artist's work and a huge cut of the revenues. It's always irked me that artists are forced to sign over the fruit of their labor, talent, and passion. I wonder if there's not an alternative deal where the artist gets the same benefits but also keeps legal ownership of their music, perhaps in exchange for an exclusive license or increased revenue share. It would be cool to see something like that pull the proverbial rug (the artists) out from under the music industry. ~~~ njharman > undermine the music industry instead Digital distribution (aka the internet) has beat them to it. It's just not clear because of the legal distortion field IP lobbyists have created. ~~~ SkyMarshal > legal distortion field IP lobbyists have created. Yeah, that's the part I hope there's a way to undermine. Pull the IP rug out from the music industry and they're done. ~~~ ethank And what exactly does "they're done" get you? How far do you extend the IP rug pulling? ------ inkaudio Google cannot buy the entire music industry because the music industry is more than the so called major labels. That said, Google or even Apple\Microsoft could buy the all the major labels from their respective owners, if they wanted too. Especially EMI and WMG Please read: [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/11/business/media/11warner.ht...](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/11/business/media/11warner.html?_r=1&ref=business) Warner music group is currently for sale and EMI is available if the right offer comes along. ~~~ taylorlb Except that no one company could ever get approved by regulators in the US or EU to purchase ALL the major music companies. It would be extremely unlikely that Google would even get approved to purchase the two that are up for sale already. ~~~ gte910h But google AND amazon could buy them all. ------ bf84 "...the music industry is economically quite small and unimportant compared to the computer industry." For some perspective, the largest label groups in the "music industry" are owned by corporations that are bigger than Google. Universal: owned by Vivendi. Sony Music: owned by (guess who). EMI: owned by Citigroup. Not exactly small economic players... ~~~ larrykubin Sony (market cap 29 billion) is bigger than Google (market cap 170 billion)? Google has 35 billion cash in the bank. ~~~ latch So it would take all of Google's cash on hand to buy 1 player (assuming they could even pull it off). It isn't like google's market cap is something they can liquidate or even really make any significant usage of. ~~~ wmf If you want Sony Music you wouldn't buy all of Sony. Of course, these conglomerates may not be willing to sell off their "money-losing" record labels. ~~~ reeses Definitely not Sony. How would they find artists to put onto minidisc/atrac/doomed-technology-de-la-décennie? ------ skymt Google really doesn't need to attract any more antitrust attention right now. ------ drivingmenuts A better article would be "Why Google should pay to have the music industry killed painfully and slowly". _That_ I could get behind. ~~~ ph0rque The music industry is pretty good at dying slowly itself... and painfully, for some values of pain, I suppose. ~~~ drivingmenuts It's a bit too slow and not nearly painful enough. I want to hear all those useless executives screaming in agony. It's time to bring back impaling. ------ melvinram Not exactly the best use of money. It would be kind of like Time Warner buying AOL. ~~~ erikpukinskis It would be more like AOL buying Time Warner, which would've been a very different transaction. ~~~ JMiao aol _did_ buy time warner. ------ joe_the_user It's not so much that the music industry is large as such. It is that the music industry something like a token in the game of control proprietary content. Music is something of a thin wedge for showing the ability to deliver highly valued content - Look at what Apple's iPod brought it and indeed, would Apple ever want a rival control the rights to the content it has mastered selling? Possibly, the recording industry of something of a stand-in for the movie and/or television industry, an industry which is not small by any stretch of the imagination. And the movie industry, gigantic as it might be, is something of stand-in for proprietary control of popular culture... ------ StuffMaster The music industry's legal canines need to be sawed off, one way or another. ------ jnhnum1 In what possible way could ease of licensing be worth $29+ billion? ~~~ mryall The music businesses wouldn't be worth anywhere near that much. And it would help Google's goal of making the world's information universally accessible and useful. ------ FireEatre Wow another ridiculous blog post! And on HN! Fuck you for wasting my time. ~~~ patrickk Feature suggestion: a time delay on new accounts being able to post a comment. Would prevent trolling like this. ------ JMiao "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The Wikidata revolution is here: enabling structured data on Wikipedia - miorel https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/04/25/the-wikidata-revolution/ ====== UVB-76 Yes. This is the future.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Startup wants you to fund Hyperloop, and help design it too - ph0rque http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57600528-76/startup-wants-you-to-fund-hyperloop-and-help-design-it-too/ ====== simonebrunozzi I think this is a good thing. Let me explain. 1) You can think that there are hundreds of OTHER things worth pursuing, instead of spending time on a project that is very hard to complete, expensive, and benefits (initially) only a small fraction of the world's population. Myself, I'd rather improve public trasportation in both SF and LA, instead of focusing on the Hyperloop. But there are people willing to spend some time to tinker with the idea. Let them do it. 2) They might not be successful, but they are sparking a discussion on transportation, technology, and government. Having a discussion is healthy, and needed. Good luck! ~~~ wavesounds It's more important then that. Hyperloop is our best bet to stop California from wasting 60 to 100 Billion (60,000-100,000 Million) dollars on a "High Speed" train that is going to be the 2nd slowest in the world. ~~~ melling It's so costly because the land in California is so expensive. The Hyperloop is going to avoid much of this by taking an indirect route and making up for it with the extra speed. Wait other couple of decades and you'll have more people to move out of the way of the Hyperloop too. Maybe we should have a little better urban planning and start preparing for low-speed and high-speed maglevs now? ~~~ clarky07 That's not actually true. Last estimates I saw said that the right of way was only costing a few (1-3 i think) billion of the total cost. ~~~ melling One of Elon's criticisms was that the CA HSR would need to acquire 1100 parcels of land. [http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/15/could-the- hyperloop...](http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/15/could-the-hyperloop- really-cost-6-billion-critics-say-no/) Can you post where you got your numbers? ~~~ clarky07 I'd love to but after quite a bit of searching I can't find them. I did see that Musk quoted 1 bil for right of way on the hyperloop, so my numbers must be off some. I'm pretty sure it still isn't the majority of the cost by any stretch. perhaps 10 bil out of the 70 proposed. If i find the article I'll update this post. ------ MrBuddyCasino I like the idea, but have my doubts that 'design by commitee' is going to work better here than it usually does. Also, the required funding is enormous - not sure if they mean financing the whole project? That would be outside anything JumpStartFund / Kickstarter / whatever could collect. ~~~ retube Well you'd initially fund a scaled-down prototype, not try to build the whole thing immediately from scratch. ------ harimau The HSR is a boondoggle in its current state because of politics and land value in this state. Hyperloop will run into similar problems w/ NIMBYs, local governments, etc. Whereas Hyperloop can transport only 7.4 million people a year, HSR has the potential to transport 117 million. The Hyperloop is a neat concept and it's great that there's greater discussion on transportation issues but it won't solve the major outstanding issues with bringing quality mass-transit to California, and the US in general, which is people and political will. ~~~ alcari How many of those 117 million people will HSR be transporting from LA to SF? ------ jdmitch to vote for the hyperloop on jumpstartfund, go to [http://www.jumpstartfund.com/index.php/hyperloop.html](http://www.jumpstartfund.com/index.php/hyperloop.html) ------ logicallee There are 9 million millionaires in America. If each of them commmitted just $67,000 it would exceed Musk's budget...by a factor of 100! iow each millionaire would have to commit just $670. Wow. We need a kickstarter for millionaires, and oh btw everyone could join even without being a millionaire. And it could be open world-wide. Why not do this? It seems somehow more reasonable than a $6B Indiegogo project.... (Which would be hilarious.) ~~~ tehwalrus Umm... If you have a way to get 9 million people to agree on something, why aren't you president of a small European country yet? Also, if you think it's easy to get $6,700 out of a millionaire, perhaps you aren't understanding why they're millionaires. ~~~ danielweber But think of all the cool tings I could do if they just gave me their money.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Homeless with GoPro Cameras in SF - simple10 http://www.homelessgopro.com/ ====== mbillie1 This seems questionably close to "exploit the homeless by monetizing them" to me.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Meet Google Helpouts - The Amazon.com of the Information Economy - lucasdailey http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/24/meet-helpouts-googles-secret-plan-to-bring-live-video-commerce-to-local-businesses/ ====== lucasdailey Ok, not only is this an awesome idea, but I wireframed basically the identical thing; I called it Google Advice. [http://happyemergency.tumblr.com/post/54216044989/google- adv...](http://happyemergency.tumblr.com/post/54216044989/google-advice-the- trillion-dollar-marketplace-for) Similar, no?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Facebook loses its VR case, has to pay $500M in damages - lefstathiou http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/01/facebook-loses-vr-case.html ====== sctb Comments moved to [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13544871](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13544871).	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: I wrote a book on Practical Evolutionary Algorithms in Python notebooks - shahinrostami https://shahinrostami.com/posts/search-and-optimisation/practical-evolutionary-algorithms/preface/ ====== shahinrostami All of these are Jupyter notebooks which I've made available for free. It's a practical book and I wanted everything from the input to the output to be reproducible, so if you click "Source", you can download the source IPYNB that was used to generate the page. I then wrote a script that uses puppeteer ([https://github.com/puppeteer/puppeteer](https://github.com/puppeteer/puppeteer)) to generate a book ([https://store.shahinrostami.com/product/practical- evolutiona...](https://store.shahinrostami.com/product/practical-evolutionary- algorithms-book/)) using every section. I've settled on some tools I'm happy to use long term, but I did end up trying many old/new solutions before I found them!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
IoT, 4K, virtual reality signal a critical need for broadband speed - PaulHoule http://www.fierceonlinevideo.com/story/internet-things-4k-virtual-reality-signal-critical-need-broadband-speed/2016-03-30 ====== kayoone I think there should be more focus on latency and upload improvements as well. With all the realtime streaming/communication going on, really low latency is crucial for the future. Also we are sending a lot more data these days, so broadband with 100/6 Mbps or 200/8 Mbps is very unbalanced. You don't really need more than 25Mbps downstream for streaming even 4K with one client, not uncompressed of course. However 100+ Mbps with <10ms latency allows for real time gaming via streams in high quality for example, making expensive hardware at home obsolete. ~~~ cm2187 What we should really achieve is 1Gbps symmetric connections. Then the cloud is your LAN and then only you can seriously consider working on files stored or backed-up in the cloud. Right now the best upload speed you can get with optic fiber with BT in the UK is 30Mbit. Not a technical limitation, purely a commercial one. I actually don't understand why ISP do not offer better upload speeds. I thought the whole system of peering relied on having balanced upload and download flows, which created problems in datacenters and ISPs, which by nature are one flow only (end users downloading data from datacenters). I would assume both ISP and datacenters would want to encourage having flows the other way, by mean of people backing up their data in the cloud. ~~~ osweiller Most users pull far more data than they push, so it's a simple reaction to the market -- with technologies like DOCSIS you have a set number of channels and you assign them to either downstream or upstream bandwidth. More users benefit from a fatter downstream pipe. ADSL has the same sort of bandwidth allocation. Having a symmetrical connection generally means limiting the downstream connection. ~~~ cm2187 Yes but I don't expect this sort of performance for cable or DSL. We are talking about Optic Fiber really. ~~~ osweiller My cable modem pulls 120Mbps down, pushes 10Mbps. 24/7\. DOCSIS 3.1 promises up to 10Gbps down, 1Gbps up (again, because it biases the bandwidth to down). It's a signal on a medium. And when we talk about fiber optics, 9 times out of 10 it isn't _really_ fiber optics. The vast majority of BT "fiber optic" installs are a copper twisted pair, with exactly the issue I mentioned. But their junction box, just like cable internet applications, has fiber optics going to it, for what's that worth. For a real pure fiber optic connection, which is rare, the service usually is symmetric because that compromise didn't need to be made. ~~~ cm2187 Yes but by Optic Fibre I meant FTTP, not FTTC. FTTC is nothing more than a thick layer of lipstick on the DSL pig. ------ coldtea What's "critical" about IoT, 4K and VR though? At best they could enable some important new functionality -- maybe. But that's hardly "critical". Desirable, nice to have, etc, yes. ~~~ tdkl Simple, it's critical to the industry who saw existing hardware sales stalling and needs a boost - ergo 4K and VR. Now they just have to convince the consumer his life is miserable without them. ~~~ _pmf_ Trying to recreate the success story of the VirtualBoy and the Nintendo Glove. ------ nomercy400 4K I can understand, virtual reality as well, but IoT? How much data do you expect to send to saturate a 3mbit/s upload line? ~~~ kantos I'd assume IoT concerns are about the number of devices rather than bandwidth, which probably translates to "switch everyone over to IPv6 already". ~~~ dsr_ Both number of devices and bandwidth could be conserved if we had a standard protocol for these things to talk to a local hub that would (a) proxy interactions with the outside, (b) enforce privacy rules and (c) handle management overhead. As it is now, a house can easily find itself with three brands of "smart" light bulbs, a thermostat, a power meter, six video systems and a camera: all of them demanding their own IP address and exposing varying levels of private information. I expect there are six standards for such hubs already. Insert XKCD here... ~~~ 7952 I am not sure that is is a good idea to put such devices in a special class of their own. It risks giving devices permissions and trust that they don't actually deserve. Better to treat them as an internet server and use existing procotols (OAuth, CORS, TLS, WebSockets etc.). As far as I know all those protocols work perfectly well on a local network behind a NAT. More importantly browsers already have well understood restrictions to prevent XSS built in. ------ grillvogel critical need for who? businesses who need to sell these products?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Panel says problem schools hurt nation's security - tokenadult http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2012/03/19/panel_says_problem_schools_hurt_nations_security/ ====== michaelpinto Many folks in NYC feel that under Joel Klein the schools actually went down in quality -- and now he's working as a flack for News Corp so his credibility is really non-existant. There are schools out in Queens, NYC that are so over- populated with students that they are being taught in "temporary" trailers. Most of the kids can't speak English, but extra money that might help them is given to small charter schools which are pretty much segregated (including segregation of students with special needs). And after school most of the libraries that the kids might hang out are closed due to budget cuts. We're adding new cops which cost a tons of money (some who retire before age 40), but letting go of qualified teachers. A starting programer in NYC won't make less than $75 (and that's without a CS undergrad degree) while a teacher who has a grad degree can't get enough to live here.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: Managed dedicated hosting recommendations - midnightmonster I'm an avid user of linode-type virtual dedicated servers, but I have a client who wants a fully managed and supported option. Virtualization is fine, but it needs to be able to pass a basic PCI remote scan and questionnaire (not actually storing card data--that's outsourced to Braintree). App is PHP and MySQL based and currently could use some speed improvements. Business is good, so spending money for uptime and peace of mind is fine.<p>I'm usually more hands-on, so I don't know who to recommend for managed. Any experience?<p>(I prefer to work with Ubuntu systems, but I can live with alternatives. A distribution without recent PHP is not ok.) ====== swalberg I once worked as the sysadmin for a blogging network. We used Logicworks.net for quite some time. They managed the servers and helped out when things were going bad, but would also stand back if we wanted to do anything ourselves. I can't speak highly enough about the guys I dealt with there. ~~~ ten7 I'd also recommend Logicworks -- they helped us setup a distributed app across two different parts of the country, and it worked well. And it always helps to know a person there too. Give Steve Zeller a call, he'll take care of you and let him know Ivan sent you: szeller@logicworks.net, <http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenlzeller> ------ ninjastar99 If security is a priority, I would recommend FireHost (<http://www.firehost.com>) without hesitation. They have been great for us to work with. I also recommend Wiredtree - which has been flawless for us over the past 2 years. ------ pavs Hostgator <http://www.hostgator.com/dedicated.shtml> They are a bit on the expensive side, but they are fully managed and support is awesome. Besides thats the only managed dedicated service I had experience with. True story (a bit off-topic). Couple of years ago when I had HG Dedicated Elite Account with them for about 1 year. I think they charged me for one month or so after that there was a bug on the system and they didn't auto charge me every month (and I didn't check, I assumed they charged). After about 1 year, they found out the problem and they contacted me and explained the situation (I checked my bank account and verified). They gave me an option and told me that I don't have to pay for their mistake (~3k I owed them), but if I continue to use their service I will have to pay. I decided to leave. I was particularly going through a hard time financially during that time and I thought it was unfair situation for me to be put in a place where I have to pay a lumpsum amount to keep using their service when it wasn't my fault. Anyways, I wasn't necessarily proud of myself for not paying them. However I would highly recommend them simply because of their excellent customer service and their reputation. ------ jread Here are a few cloud providers I'm aware of that offer "fully managed" or advanced support options: EC2 (with premium support - pricey) Storm on Demand SoftLayer Storm on Demand is a new IaaS platform backed by Liquid Web. Pricing is reasonable, support is good, and they really know what they are doing. I've been using their service for about 3 months now with no issues or downtime. ~~~ Skyline +1 for SoftLayer. We've been using them for about 3 years now and we've been very happy with them. ------ thefahim I've been using WiredTree for CurrentHipHop for the past 2 months. They're cheap, managed and great support so far. ~~~ TrevorBurnham Another thumbs-up for WiredTree. Reasonably priced given the level of support you get (even low-priority tickets typically get responses within minutes). Nice control panel, too. ------ callmeed If you want managed, I think Rackspace is still the best. They have gotten us out of plenty of jams. Fastest response times, great monitoring, phone support, etc. ~~~ culturestate Completely agree. The only issue I've run into with rackspace is that they are sometimes _too_ proactive - they locked a subcontractor out of one of our development boxes a couple weeks ago because they didn't recognize the user. ------ nwilkens I am the co-founder of a pro-active server management company, MNX Solutions (<http://www.mnxsolutions.com>). So I have a bit of a bias. The best dedicated server provider that we have worked with to date, hands down, is Softlayer.com. Couple the best server provider, with the best server administrators and you will be heading in the right direction. ~~~ benreyes Glad to see SoftLayer are still on top of things. I used them when they first launched and the guys from The Planet moved over as I used to run a shared web hosting business. ------ patrickgzill Actually getting the basic PCI scan passed should be quite easy, especially if you do not store the card data. ~~~ midnightmonster Yes, it is pretty easy. Just a baseline requirement for the hosting. ~~~ lsc this is relevant to my interests, well, sortof. do you have a link? ------ dnsworks You might check out a company that I used to own, BitPusher.com. They host and/or manage infrastructure for dozens of startups, including a few YC startups (Wufoo, Meteor solutions (I think), and am pretty sure they're working with Posterous now). It's a cool setup, we built it with the idea of replacing systems administrators in a start-up, becoming part of their change management process, providing architectural guidance, and proactive management of customer infrastructure. They do dedicated servers in their own datacenter, as well as having great pricing with SoftLayer due to a pretty strong relationship there. My old business partner, Daniel Lieberman, still runs BitPusher. Tell him Michael sent you.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Senators decry link between Egypt and U.S. 'kill switch' bill - MikeCapone http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20030332-281.html ====== lukev I still haven't heard a single remotely plausible argument for why a kill switch is a good idea. What's the worst that a "cyber attack" can do? Take down the internet? So why do it _for_ them? Including text in the law forbidding the president from using it to prohibit citizen's communication is incredibly disingenuous, too, given that that's one of the main points _of the constitution_. We already know the US government isn't _allowed_ to do this kind of thing. So why give them the tools? If there's no tool there isn't even any temptation to use it. ~~~ amalcon I think it speaks to a fundamental misunderstanding of the technology, but to be fair, the proposal is not to grant the power to _disable_ the Internet. The proposal is to grant the power to _partition_ the Internet. So, it would not be analogous to how Egypt disabled the Internet almost entirely within their borders. Depending on how you look at it, it's either a subtle distinction, or a huge difference. It still serves the exact same purpose (granting the power to shut down "troublesome" communication channels even if they are physically located outside the country). On the other hand, its activation would not in and of itself impact the vast majority of American citizens (because they only use U.S.-based sites). ~~~ InclinedPlane The internet is a global _inter_ network, a network of networks, as it were. That's where the name comes from. Partitioning the internet is isomorphic to destroying the internet. ~~~ amalcon Would you say that the Internet is "destroyed" whenever there's an earthquake or something that cuts trans-Atlantic cables? Would you say that it's "destroyed" by China's filtering? ------ jbooth I'd be willing to bet Lieberman has barely used the internet. Ever. I mean, my Nana won't touch it, and she's about 10x as progressive as him, so... ~~~ patrickgzill Look over Lieberman's job history ... he has never held a job in the private sector, period. ~~~ jbooth Well, plenty of people in the public sector know how to use a computer :) ------ iwwr You see, the President will only switch off the internet to preserve freedom. ~~~ mikecarlucci Maybe they'll cite Independence Day, when our own satellite communication network was used against us. If the bad guys are using "our" Internet to communicate we should shut it down and evacuate everyone to Area 51 with the help of Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum. ~~~ sixtofour Would that citation be fair use, or would the MPAA issue a DMCA notice? ~~~ mikecarlucci It feels like it would pass a fair use defense test...not taking too more than necessary and shouldn't harm the commercial market for the original. And any bill with an internet shutdown is something the MPAA could get behind :) ------ patrickgzill What I don't understand is how it is acceptable to essentially "void" all the contracts for internet and point to point/transport (which would travel over the same fiber and routers) just because the gov't says so. The entire idea of having a court system is to ensure justice in criminal issues and in civil issues, protect the enforcement of contracts. Somehow this is getting turned around. ~~~ eli Isn't that kinda the point? If <foreign government> launched a massive DDOS against US servers, you don't want people dithering over violating SLAs when they could be stopping the attack ~~~ pyre But why is a massive DDOS against US servers an issue though? As long as critical infrastructure doesn't go down (i.e. you get what you deserve if your nuclear reactors are controlled via a publicly accessible telnet session, or if they can be DDOS'd at all) then the damage is minimal. It certainly doesn't warrant a military-level response. ~~~ discardingsabot _As long as critical infrastructure doesn't go down_ That's the whole point. Critical infrastructure is the only thing the bill covers. _It certainly doesn't warrant a military-level response._ The bill has nothing to do with the military. ~~~ pyre > The bill has nothing to do with the military The president is the commander-in-chief and this bill is about preventing 'cyber attacks' from outside of the country. That seems to be encroaching into 'military' territory in my book, even if there isn't a particular branch of the military involved. ------ sixtofour "When the President does it, then it's not illegal." \- Richard Nixon <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejvyDn1TPr8> ~~~ MikeCapone "L'État, c'est moi" \- Louis XIV ------ Vivtek Senators decry people watching them break what's not broken. Film at 11. ------ CWuestefeld I haven't seen any kind of justification for the provision making the president's hypothetical action immune from judicial review. And I can't think of any justification, either. Anybody care to explain what they're thinking? ~~~ eli I'm actually OK with the bill aside from this provision. (Worth noting, though, that the bill hasn't been reintroduced yet so we can't actually see that language... and CNET's source for this removal of judicial review appears to be a single lobbyist for companies opposed to the bill.) ------ GHFigs Here's an idea: let's pick out one provision of the bill that sounds sketchy when summarized and whip ourselves into a massive rhetorical frenzy over it in lieu of reading so much as a word of the rest of it and considering ways it could be improved to better address the problems it is attempting to address. Oh wait, you're way ahead of me, as usual. Stay classy, HN. [http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111s3480rs/pdf/BILLS-111s...](http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111s3480rs/pdf/BILLS-111s3480rs.pdf) ~~~ andolanra "A final decision in any appeal under this subsection shall be a final agency action that shall not be subject to judicial review." Section 254(c)(1); appears on pg. 402 of the linked draft. I am against any law which contains those words. Other parts of the law are troubling to various degrees, but that single sentence is enough for me to know that I oppose this law. ------ VladRussian considering that the Internet becomes an "additional, external, brain lobe" (how many of you remember things instead of looking it up everytime, or take for example Google voice/translate or any other traditional "brain" function that tomorrow will be transferred to and/or extended by Internet) - any government power on the Internet means government's power over your brain. Because tomorrow the unconnected brain vs. connected will be like being a pedestrian vs. riding a car. ------ eli Of all the possible threats to a free Internet, the idea of a rogue US President shutting it off seems pretty far down the list. This is not something worth worrying about. ~~~ iuygtfrgth True - a rogue US president isn't a problem. Of course a Chicago mayor shutting off bits of it when there is a G20 protest. Or an Alabama governor for a civil rights march. Or just an MPAA owned senator shutting down an ISP because of a pirate copy of a movie. ------ InclinedPlane "No, it's fine, we're good guys, we won't abuse these powers." Benevolent rule is still rule. And the risks of centralized power being wielded by a benevolent authority falling into the hands of a malicious authority is very real and should _never_ be ignored. ------ shareme the reason for this bill are a bit somewhat false.. Note, to date the number one entity skilled and reacting fast to cyber attacks on Net infrastructure has been commerce not government. In government has shown to be poor performer in this area. It would not surprise me if this bill was being lobbied by MPAA/RIAA	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN - Are Dataless Apps the next big thing? - knicholes Serverless -> Dataless? Recently at a developer conference, someone from AWS came to talk to us about serverless apps. We joked that the next stage would be "dataless" apps. Apart from the joking, however, I thought there might actually be some truth here. If laws lead to taxing data as a liability, maybe a dataless app could be something like a bunch of neural networks per user where the data ephemerally comes in, contributes to training the network, then is deleted. All that remains are weights in the networks. Thoughts? ====== asdfman123 I doubt it, just because you never know when data will come in handy. The cost of throwing it away is greater than the cost of storing it. I mean, it's a pretty basic consideration that has been around forever: should we store our data, or throw it away when we're done with it? The only thing that is really changing is data is getting cheaper to store, so if anything, we'll see more data being tucked away. ------ blacksqr Now if you could just get rid of those pesky users, you might have something.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Jerry the Bear: A robotic learning coach for kids with type 1 diabetes - hallieatrobohub http://robohub.org/jerry-the-bear-a-robotic-learning-coach-for-kids-with-type-1-diabetes/ ====== hallieatrobohub Back Sproutel’s crowdfunding campaign to get Jerry the Bear, their robotic healthcare coach, into the hands of every kid in the US who is newly diagnosed with type 1 diabetes.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
“If You’re Not Pissed Off, You’re Not Paying Attention” - cnst http://newsroom.t-mobile.com/issues-insights-blog/save-wireless-choice.htm ====== upofadown I am pissed off that the powers that be are still allocating separate spectrum for separate companies. That worked once for analog cell phone service. It doesn't work any more and is wildly inefficient. The present approach is pretty much the same as those stupid proposals to have each possible company run a separate fiber to each building. ~~~ cnst Only one company can use a given piece of spectrum in a given territory. What they should be ensuring, however, is that each piece of spectrum from a given auction is equivalent to the other piece, so that we don't have another situation like the one with 700MHz where LTE Band 12 had to be abandoned due to high-power transmission TV channels, and AT&T got itself a new Band 17 as a subset of Band 12, whereas T-Mobile and the regional carriers ended up having to wait many years until they can finally start using Band 12 fully, and even today many new phones still don't support Band 12, all whilst having full support for the subset in the face of Band 17. Of course, the problematic part comes in the face of the fact that T-Mobile and other smaller carriers need spectrum NOW or at the very least ASAP, whereas broadcasters are still using most of it, and must be compensated for having to surrender it, or pay extra to continue using it etc, thus the whole thing is a big mess, basically. ~~~ upofadown >Only one company can use a given piece of spectrum in a given territory. That's the part I disagree with. In general, last mile infrastructure needs to be shared. The smaller carriers don't need spectrum, they need access to their customers. As it is now they need to either try to strike a deal with a company with a government granted monopoly or they have to get their own monopoly in exchange for a large kickback.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Attention Is All You Need - espeed https://papers.nips.cc/paper/7181-attention-is-all-you-need ====== eggie5 This paper has a lot of prerequisites to understand. A good paper to read is precursor to this paper released a year ago: [https://arxiv.org/abs/1606.01933](https://arxiv.org/abs/1606.01933) ------ bthornbury I expect we'll be seeing many shakeups on what has (perhaps prematurely) become the established norms for NN architectures (CNN and RNN) throughout the next few years. Its a great time to be alive! ------ pilooch See the Google blog post from last summer, [https://research.googleblog.com/2017/08/transformer-novel- ne...](https://research.googleblog.com/2017/08/transformer-novel-neural- network.html) A novel simplified architecture for sequences and translation. ------ ferros Can somebody assist in breaking this down? ~~~ RangerScience I'm seconding this. I could not find a good resource to understand what "attention" actually _is_. (The next step for me would be to follow the citation trail to the original paper, but that might not be the best place to come to an understanding of the thing.) ~~~ visarga Attention is just a weighted sum over a set of vectors, where the weights sum to one. Attention weights are usually created by neural nets. The word "attention" might seem more grandiose than what it actually does. ~~~ speedplane That may be true on a mathematical level, but that's also the answer to just about any neural net question... it's all just a a weighted sum. My understanding of "attention" on a higher level is the ability to concentrate more neurons on "important" areas of an image than less important ones. An imperfect analogy is how the human visual system has better resolution at your eye-line's center than at it's edges. In this analogy, your brain should not waste effort processing image details in your peripheral vision. ~~~ visarga The key element is that we use neural nets to compute the attention weights, so attention itself is learnable. ------ IncRnd Reading the headline I thought the article would be about mindfulness, which would have been nice. Reading the article I was pleasantly surprised to find a different subject that I also enjoy. :) ------ chriswarbo Would this have implications for using ANNs on recursive structures (trees and graphs)? Their "position encoding" seems a little contrived, but may be amenable to a more complex positioning scheme (e.g. paths from a root node). Whilst there are "standard" approaches in computer vision ("CNNs applied to <foo>") and sequence processing ("LSTM RNNs applied to <foo>"), there doesn't seem to be any "standard" for variable-size, recursively-structured data. Sure there's recursive ANNs, backpropagation-through-structure, etc. but they all seem like one-off inventions, rather than accepted problem-solving tools. ~~~ sdenton4 Seq2Seq is kind of a standard, but also strikes me as pretty hacky. The network has an encoder and a decoder mode, reads until it finds an end of input signal, then switches to decode mode. This is how absolutely nothing works in nature. ------ phkahler Is this really significant? I'm not an NN kind of guy but I find it an interesting thing to follow from a distance. From the abstract, this sounds like an important paper. Is it? ------ jorgemf This paper was uploaded to arxiv 6 months ago (June). With the fast pace in translation in the last years it might be outdated already ------ m3kw9 I wonder how Capsule nets can evolve using Attention model like this ~~~ eref Capsules basically do a kind of self-attention. But there the parent features compete for a coupling, not the child features. ------ imurray I suggest changing the link from the .pdf to the web page: [https://papers.nips.cc/paper/7181-attention-is-all-you- need](https://papers.nips.cc/paper/7181-attention-is-all-you-need) It's one click to get the pdf from there. But you also get a plain webpage with abstract, citation details, and so on, which you can't get back to from the PDF. In general it's good to knock the ".pdf" off the end of all papers.nips.cc links. Similarly turn /pdf/ links on arXiv into /abs/ links, and replace "pdf?" in openreview.net links with "forum?". ~~~ popcorncolonel Agreed. Plus, its really annoying to open it on mobile and my phone starts downloading the pdf file immediately, which I don't want to have to manually delete in the future. ------ hjjiehebebe Abstract: The dominant sequence transduction models are based on complex recurrent or convolutional neural networks that include an encoder and a decoder. The best performing models also connect the encoder and decoder through an attention mechanism. We propose a new simple network architecture, the Transformer, based solely on attention mechanisms, dispensing with recurrence and convolutions entirely. Experiments on two machine translation tasks show these models to be superior in quality while being more parallelizable and requiring significantly less time to train. Our model achieves 28.4 BLEU on the WMT 2014 English- to-German translation task, improving over the existing best results, including ensembles, by over 2 BLEU. On the WMT 2014 English-to-French translation task, our model establishes a new single-model state-of-the-art BLEU score of 41.0 after training for 3.5 days on eight GPUs, a small fraction of the training costs of the best models from the literature.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Can you grow a startup only from organic traffic? - toutouastro ====== trevelyan My startup is still on page five of Google and our traffic is almost all word- of-mouth. So it is possible but it is not fun. Very easy to get bitter when you see the spam that floats above your stuff and hear people tell you that Google rewards quality content, or when users write you to complain that they cannot find you. Anyway, I would not try it with multiple founders. It is hard enough to get yourself to the point of making enough money to pay rent/food for one person without strong distribution without having to worry about multiple partners. ------ eblah The company I currently work for started with zero marketing in the mid 2000s (2004/2005). We grew into a multi-million dollar company. We're in the home and garden e-commerce category. We didn't really start doing any marketing until 2010 (Google TV, at that!). Now, though, competition is a mess (tiny sites rank above established brands) so we're almost forced to do some form of PPC. In some ways now, you're completely at the mercy of Google and their latest algorithm update, regardless of whether or not you follow the SEO rules. To answer your question though, if competition is low it can definitely be done, just do everything with SEO in mind, but design and write for users. ------ ig1 Yes, there's plenty of other options such as PR, virality, social media, SEO, etc. However in general if you're not paying for traffic (in addition to your organic traffic) you're probably leaving money on the table. ------ livestyle I grew clalerts.org from 0-800 users via organic methods in about 4 months. Google "craigslist alerts" I have links coming from a ton of tgose results. Fyi Craigslist shut me down 3months ago. ~~~ Concours Hey Tom, this looks cool. Too bad you had to close. We have some users doing exactly that on [http://www.feedsapi.org](http://www.feedsapi.org) , would you consider adding it as a recommendation on your page? Thanks	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot - sky_nox https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47383634 ====== mgolawala Having two nuclear powers shooting each other's planes out of the sky should make the whole world nervous. In a perverse way, it is probably a good thing that they are both nuclear powers. The stakes are too high for them NOT to call a truce and end this madness before it gets out of hand. It seems like most remain hopeful that both sides will stand down after a couple of rounds of chest beating. Knowing humanity, it is only a matter of time though, before two nuclear powers begin an all out war with each other. India and Pakistan are definitely on the top of the list of candidates where such a war could start. ~~~ dogma1138 It’s much worse with India and Pakistan. No centralized command and control, little to no fail safes once the physics package is integrated and warmed up, no second strike capability all of this results in a doctrine of tactical deployments with field commanders holding launch responsibilities. This isn’t the US and Russia where they can obliterate each other conventionally and no one would be able to fire a nuke off unless the leadership calls for it. This could start and end with a field level commander in some valley in Kashmir hitting the button because they can’t get their superiors on the line and some villager claimed they’ve seen a mushroom cloud. ~~~ amriksohata No second strike capability? Do you really think either of these countries have no second strike capability? I think you underestimate both sides armies and their command and control. ~~~ dogma1138 Neither side have centralized command and control, no centralized launch control, both Indian and Pakistani nukes are practically unsafe and neither country has a nuclear triad nor hardened launch capabilities that can survive a first strike, the only 2nd strike any of these countries would get is due to the sheer incompetence of their opponent. What’s worse is that both sides also lack proper early warning systems, reliable IFF, centralized communications, and essentially everything needs to ensure that no one is going to make a huge mistake. India and Pakistan are both a joke sadly for the rest of the world not a particularly funny one, and what will start with them won’t end with them since Russia, China and the US would get dragged into the situation. One of the biggest criticism of the nuclear non proliferation treaty is that it lacks the provision to deal with nations that achieve break out of full nuclear capabilities and allow the nuclear power to provide them with guidance and the tools to actually secure their nuclear arsenal. To put things into perspective China only now is establishing a centralized and fault tolerant command and control infrastructure with continuity of government and military command, both the US and Russia have been constantly miss identifying anything form wild geese to sounding rockets as possible first strike candidates and you if expect India and Pakistan to handle these issues with competency then you might need to reconsider what you define as such. ~~~ kuhhk Where did you get all of this information about Pakistan and India's nuclear strategy or lack thereof? Do you have a source or evidence for what you're claiming here? ------ ishjoh I've been following this story and it makes me very nervous that these skirmishes are getting more serious. I'm in the US so I don't have a good sense of how the citizens of the two countries are reacting to the conflict. Does anybody in India or Pakistan want to share the situation on the ground? How loudly are the the war drums banging? How are the media framing these events? ~~~ godelmachine I am an Indian and until yesterday, I wholeheartedly supported the strikes by us on Pakistan mainland. Please note that the strikes were to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure with surgical precision. Pakistan took offense to this and have retaliated. During this retaliation, they caught one of our fighter pilots behind their lines. This happened when 2 MiG 21's from India engaged a dozen F16's coming from Pakistan. (Not sure about all 12 of them being F16's. There were 12 for sure. Some reports say 4 F16's , 4 JF7 Thunder and 4 Chengdu J-7) Since then, I want the pilot to be brought back home and want retaliation to take a back burner. Pakistani's too support going on the offensive. ~~~ dogma1138 India has nearly 250 SU-30’s which at least they have a chance who in the world would’ve ordered Mig 21’s to scramble against western jets after seeing how Soviet and Arab pilots faired in them against the Israelis in Mirages, F4s and F15/16s between 1967 and 1981? ~~~ godelmachine If you know anything about CAP [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_air_patrol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_air_patrol) , the fighter aircraft which is closest to the intruders responds. In our case, it happened to be MiG 21. Had it been Sukhoi-30, we would had shot down at least half a dozen of them. ~~~ dogma1138 I think you over estimating what the SU-30 can do; it stands a better chance but what you are describing is unlikely given the armament of the F16s. The question is still why are the MiG 21s even operating in a contested environment when the opposition is much better armed when there is a better alternative. ~~~ godelmachine Uh well, I asked the same question yesterday. MiG 21’s are due to be phased out of service this year. India had signed a deal with France for Dassault Rafale, but the deal stumbled coz opposition party accused the government of misappropriation. Things are a bit clear now and the deal may go through soon, and delivery may take around 2 years, but’s that’s what it is. India has also signed a deal with Lockheed to produce F16’s indigenously. That may also take a while. That’s the grim situation here. Our Air Force needs to upgrade the fleet. Apart from all this, we have created our own Tejas, which is a Light Combat Aircraft, But it will not see action anytime soon. I personally believe Dassault Rafale can take down F16 Fighting Falcon in a dogfight. What do you think? ------ bdz >Mess with the best. Die like a pest! [https://twitter.com/zartajgulwazir/status/110069112527752396...](https://twitter.com/zartajgulwazir/status/1100691125277523968/photo/1) Crazy that a minister can write something like that. Not really surprised but still. ~~~ mc32 I have to ask, why are the maps labeled using the Latin alphabet? ------ pknerd Indian PM Modi was(is) in trouble. He lost elections massively in 4(?) Indian states. He is also facing Rafael planes scandal in which former French President also revealed a few things about the scandal. Opposition parties like INC and AAP raised voice against Modi's moves to mess within and out of the country. Unlike Pakistan, India has more hysteria for the neighbor and like everywhere else, using religion and Pakistan could help to gain popular votes. The attack by India was very predictable, even Indians[1] said it 5-6 months back. What actually made it worse for Modi that Pakistan responded back and captured their pilot thus made Modi in trouble as the opposition is asking questions. Despite of warmongering Media and politicians, PM of Pakistan again asked for dialogues. Even many sane Indians are appreciating it [2] PS: All of the Info above about India politics is based on Indian newspapers and their politicians' statements. [1] [https://twitter.com/ashoswai/status/1072503110118096897?lang...](https://twitter.com/ashoswai/status/1072503110118096897?lang=en) [2] [https://www.facebook.com/hanif.ajari/posts/2606114666071848](https://www.facebook.com/hanif.ajari/posts/2606114666071848) ------ dfilppi Why would they announce that? What strategy is forwarded by announcing it? ~~~ NTDF9 The announcement is done to achieve two things: 1\. Posture to their own populace that they're not backing down (thus winning political scores) 2\. Show to the rest of the world that they are leadership to reckon with, that they don't back down cowardly. Imagine two high-school teens with some social status fighting on the playground. They will not back off because of social status reasons. Only here, the teens have nukes. ~~~ pknerd I am a Pakistani and I do agree with you here. But we have left no choice either. Modi wants to use jingoism to win elections ------ bobbydreamer It's mostly just media and their TRP ------ stunt How any of these stuff is related to HN? ------ amriksohata India have played a diplomatic masterclass. They can claim non-military action against a terrorist group (that is supported by ex pakistani army men which were probably killed too). 300 in total. Whilst Pakistan took down 1 of Indias armymen and 40 soliders via a terror attack. India also claims to have down a Pakistani jet. Overall India look better on the international stage and have also manned down more numbers. Pakistan really has been useless both at diplomatic and non diplomatic methods.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Cisco Nexus 9000 Series Fabric Switches ACI Mode Default SSH Key Vulnerability - el_duderino https://tools.cisco.com/security/center/content/CiscoSecurityAdvisory/cisco-sa-20190501-nexus9k-sshkey ====== tastroder While it's overly flippant, I somehow enjoyed the register's take on it: [https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/05/02/cisco_vulnerabiliti...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/05/02/cisco_vulnerabilities/) ------ java-man I don't understand how this could happen in 2019. There were multiple people involved who coded, reviewed, tested the code, signed off on the release. The other possible explanation is that it's intentional. ~~~ closeparen Are we sure Cisco does any of that stuff? I picture their code coming in as .zip email attachments from whatever outsourcing company, and landing on an NFS share somewhere. I’d be impressed if they had version control, let alone code review. ~~~ java-man good point.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
National Radio Quiet Zone [US] - golfer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Radio_Quiet_Zone ====== brudgers Recent related discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11748474](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11748474)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: Working on a new network transport for PulseAudio and ALSA - gavv42 https://gavv.github.io/articles/new-network-transport/# ====== gavv42 A brief summary. I'm working on Roc, a toolkit for real-time streaming over the network. Among other things, it provides command-line tools and PulseAudio modules that can be used for home audio. It can be used with PA, with bare ALSA, and with the macOS CoreAudio. The main difference from other transports, including PulseAudio TCP and RTP streaming, is the better quality of service when the latency is low (100 to 300 ms) and the network in unreliable (Wi-Fi). The post explains why and provides some comparison, usage instructions, and future plans. There is still a long way to go, and now we're looking for people thoughts and feedback. Do you find the project useful? How would you use it? What features would you like to see? ~~~ autopoiesis I see you've got Opus on your to-do list. I would really appreciate that! I find Opus (appropriately configured) to be audibly indistinguishable from CD audio, and it would really help with the bandwidth requirements. I've always been really excited by the possibilities implied by PulseAudio's network capabilities, but disappointed by their latency and bandwidth requirements. Roc + Opus would be amazing. ~~~ zneveu Check out [https://github.com/eugenehp/trx](https://github.com/eugenehp/trx) for Opus streaming inspiration, I've played around with their code and found it easy to work with. Opus would be great with ROC because in case of buffer over/under runs the codec provides features to mask dropouts based on previous content. This is critical when using Wi-Fi. ~~~ gavv42 Thanks. > Opus would be great with ROC because in case of buffer over/under runs the > codec provides features to mask dropouts based on previous content. This is > critical when using Wi-Fi. Are you talking about its PLC or FEC? I didn't test it yet and I'm interested if people are using both of them with music. BTW it would be also interesting to combine our FECFRAME support with Opus. ------ summm Sounds great! What about encryption? If that is used in any environment not in complete control of the user that should be mandatory. E.g. in an open wifi, a shared wifi, or directly over the internet. As the protocol is using RTP anyway, it should be easy to slap on SRTP or DTLS? For the beginning, it may even be sufficient to use a static symmetric key. Or directly use WebRTC which has that already included, but what about the FEC then? ~~~ summm Update: I just discovered SRTP in the advanced features list. Awesome! ~~~ gavv42 Yeah, SRTP is in the list :) It's not the highest priority right now, but I'll get to that sooner or later (sooner if somebody will be asking for it). ------ kylek This is cool! I've recently been playing with streaming local audio to another system (a raspberrypi with a dac). I tried Pulseaudio's builtin way of streaming, but lag was pretty bad. I found JACK[0] to work well (<20ms) once I got it configured correctly. Kind of a complicated setup (including getting it all to be "automatic", systemd unit files and all, realtime kernels, etc), and not particularly stable. Unfortunately the latency makes up for it. [0] [http://www.jackaudio.org/](http://www.jackaudio.org/) (is this link dead? here's a few more- [https://github.com/jackaudio/](https://github.com/jackaudio/) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JACK_Audio_Connection_Kit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JACK_Audio_Connection_Kit) ) ------ gimes4dieni This is great staff! Finally there is an Open Source initiative to create a robust transport for sync audio streaming. Existing Open Source solutions that come to my mind (like SlimProto, SnapCast, ffmpeg) focus on providing 'a product' rather than a reusable 'transport'. Few questions: how do you 'capture' PCM stream in case of ALSA? It is straight forward to create a PA sink and plug it into PA configuration, but I am wondering about pure ALSA. Disclaimer: I am an author of [https://www.github.com/gimesketvirtadieni/slimstreamer](https://www.github.com/gimesketvirtadieni/slimstreamer) ~~~ gavv42 Thanks. > Few questions: how do you 'capture' PCM stream in case of ALSA? It is > straight forward to create a PA sink and plug it into PA configuration, but > I am wondering about pure ALSA. Good question :) Roc does not implement any special capturing code for ALSA, it just reads from the given device (using SoX currently). The user is supposed to use something like snd-aloop. It would be possible to create a custom ALSA plugin I guess, but we have no plans for that currently. You're right about the transport vs product part. I would prefer to work on the transport. And an ALSA plugin would be a product on top of it so it should be a separate project ideally. Actually, the same is true for our PulseAudio modules. I hope later we will either submit them to upstream or separate into a standalone project. > Disclaimer: I am an author of > [https://www.github.com/gimesketvirtadieni/slimstreamer](https://www.github.com/gimesketvirtadieni/slimstreamer) Interesting, didn't see it before. ------ matthew-wegner Network audio is pretty nifty! I run a Snapcast[0] setup at home, tied into Home Assistant[0] automation for multi-room audio. Some notes: \- I have six total audio zones, including my desktop computer. \- Audio for a room turns on/off with a room. It's neat to walk from my office into the kitchen, and have the kitchen lights come up and audio follow me in when the motion detectors fire. Some speakers don't mute when "off", but change source to a text-to-speech only channel (for i.e. door/window contact notification, other messages). \- Everything but my desktop (macOS) are speakers connected to a Raspberry Pi via USB DAC. \- One of my motivations here was multi-room audio, but a big one was to connect a Linux VM's audio output directly to the speakers so I could use the official Spotify client, instead of a 3rd-party library that will eventually break. \- Snapcast is really quite DIY for config, but I could set up other sources-- an Airplay target, a line in target with a cable hanging off the server so people could plug in devices at a party, etc. I've seen setups online where people do this, and someone in a room can change that room's "channel" to another source. \- Spotify's DRM-as-feature is nice here, because I just use the Spotify client on my desktop normally, with output coming out elsewhere. I run 700ms of buffer, which is just low enough that clicking play/pause doesn't feel broken. I could probably drop it more, since everything is hardwired in the house. \- Previous to Snapcast, I just toggled Spotify's source when I walked between rooms, but there's quite a bit of dead air there, and it's a hassle to setup, plus multi-room audio sync is nice with people over. [0] [https://github.com/badaix/snapcast](https://github.com/badaix/snapcast) [1] [https://www.home-assistant.io/](https://www.home-assistant.io/) ~~~ gavv42 Interesting, thanks for sharing. ------ Frans-Willem Can this also play to multiple devices (at the same time), while keeping the audio synchronized ? ~~~ gavv42 Not yet. This is in our roadmap however. ~~~ iforgotpassword This would be very cool. I've been pondering about how to do this every now and then (but never worked on any real time stuff, so...) If you ever get around to adding this I will start building my el cheapo raspberry pi based sonos clone. ;-) ~~~ nitrogen Regarding realtime stuff there's a project out there to implement the Ethernet AVB (audio/video bridging) standard on BeagleBone using PTP (precision time protocol) for synchronization. Some of the older network synchronized transports like CobraNet and Dante might also be interesting for anyone wanting to learn more about this stuff. ------ rayrrr Looks awesome! Functionally speaking, it reminds me of Snapcast. Compare/contrast? ~~~ gavv42 Thanks, I didn't know about this project and will definitely look at the implementation. Their documentation says they use TCP, which usually means that it won't handle low latencies on Wi-Fi due to packet losses. On the other hand, they have service discovery, remote control, and multi-room synchronization. All three features are planned but not yet supported in Roc. We'll add the first two in upcoming releases, but the multi-room support requires a serious research. Their documentation also says the client can correct time deviations by playing faster or slower. We use resampling for that instead. I'm wondering how they can avoid glitches without using a resampler. One more difference is that they use their own protocols (both for streaming and control) while Roc relies on standard RFCs. ------ kbumsik This is a cool project! I always wonder how to measure latency of sound- related programs. Is there any tools to benchmark latencies? ------ dmos62 You've mentioned PA, ALSA and macOS CoreAudio. That's Linux and Mac. Will Windows users be able to use this as well somehow? ~~~ gavv42 Currently, no. Windows port is in our roadmap but not a priority right now. However, if someone would want to maintain it, I'm ready to accept PRs and help with porting.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Yahoo Reaches the 2 Quadrillionth Bit of Pi - spoon16 http://www.readwriteweb.com/cloud/2010/09/a-cloud-computing-milestone-ya.php ====== chaosmachine I guess they have a lot of free machines now that Bing does their search results. ------ photon_off In case you're really wondering, it's zero. ------ Tichy I'm sure their shareholders will be mightily pleased. Have they found any works of Shakespeare yet in the digits of PI? ------ tszming Yahoo reaches the 2 Quadrillionth Bit of Pi - users don't care.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Comodo “Chromodo” Browser disables same origin policy - polemic https://code.google.com/p/google-security-research/issues/detail?id=704 ====== steckerbrett Ah the old, break the PoC to make the researcher stop complaining move but don't fix the underlying insanity. Classic. ~~~ david_shaw My background's in application security assessments. I've seen this hundreds (or more) times, from developers that should really know better. "Hey, there's SQLi in this input form! Better make sure ' OR 1=1;-- is blacklisted," but don't properly parameterize their queries or sanitize input. ~~~ dsacco "Hey, they reported cross-site scripting! Let's blacklist angle brackets, that'll do the trick!" In case this is not clear to anyone in 2016, blacklisting known-dangerous characters is not an adequate bug fix. It's a rabbit hole, you will burn hours trying to blacklist every character or character combination that can cause a vulnerability just to have someone own you anyway. ~~~ TTPrograms What's current best practice? ~~~ sarciszewski The proper fixes for common web application vulnerabilities are as follows: _Session Hijacking /Fixation/etc._: Use TLS. _SQL Injection_ : Prepared statements that AREN'T emulated; PHP's defaults are bad here. EDIT: If you're writing in another language, make sure it's not providing string escaping masquerading as prepared statements, but _actual_ prepared statements. (My earlier comment was too broad; some forms of emulated prepared statements might be OK, but PHP's is dangerous.) _Cross-Site Scripting_ : Context-aware escaping (templating libraries) + Security Headers _Cross-Site Request Forgery_ : CSRF tokens _Password storage_ : bcrypt, scrypt, PBKDF2-SHA2, Argon2 _Encryption, Digital Signatures, Authenticated Key Exchanges, etc._ : Hire an expert, don't do it yourself based on the advice contained within HN comments. _File Inclusion / Directory Traversal_: Don't write your applications in a dumb way that makes these vulnerabilities possible. But if you must, use something like realpath() with a sanity check based on the expected parent directory (in PHP). _XML External Entities_ : Make sure you disable the entity loader: libxml_disable_entity_loader(true); _PHP Object Injection_ in PHP 5: don't ever pass user input to unserialize(); use json_decode() instead. _PHP Object Injection_ in PHP 7: either disable object loading or whitelist the allowed types; i.e. unserialize($var, false); or unserialize($var, ['DateTime']); These are just some of the common problems I frequently find, of course. There are more basic ways to mess up an application ("not even checking that you're authenticated" being at the top of that list). [https://paragonie.com/blog/2015/08/gentle-introduction- appli...](https://paragonie.com/blog/2015/08/gentle-introduction-application- security) Further reading and resources: * [https://securityheaders.io](https://securityheaders.io) * [https://github.com/paragonie/awesome-appsec](https://github.com/paragonie/awesome-appsec) And if anyone wants their code reviewed: [https://paragonie.com/services](https://paragonie.com/services) ~~~ ineedtosleep Is it too early to be suggesting Argon2? I've not heard of it until now, but the Wikipedia entry[1] shows that the paper was just released late last year. [1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argon2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argon2) ~~~ oxguy3 My suggestion, if you really want to overkill and knock it out of the park: use both. Run it through bcrypt, then through Argon2. If something happens where one of them is deemed insecure/bad practice, you've still got the other one. ~~~ technion This falls into the category of "coming up with your own system". It sounds theoretically as strong as either one, but it could end up weaker overall. Define X as the maximum time you can allow a hash to run on your server, before it either starts to annoy users, or becomes a DoS issue. Moving from "Argon2, such that it runs for X" to "both algorithms, with a total cost X" means both of them are running with a much reduced work strength. In the case of Argon2, there is an "iterations" counter, but t=2 is already reasonable, and on low end hardware, you may see t=1. So as per the spec, reducing runtime in order to make whole thing work is going to involve reducing m. Except bcrypt is already not memory hard, and you've just reduced the only memory constraint in your algorithm. And entirely possible there are bigger issues I didn't up with two minutes of thinking about it. ------ derFunk Comodo, TrendMicro, AVG... A lot of security suites made it into headlines the past couple of months, because of their incredible questionable practices. What's the reason for this? ~~~ thekos Taviso has been on a rampage. ~~~ derFunk Yeah I forgot to mention Sophos. I'm glad we have him. ~~~ knd775 Don't forget FireEye ------ Cartwright2 Wasn't there a similar issue in another browser here on HN recently? How does this actually happen - two different security companies both push out "secure" browsers that are fundamentally insecure. I'm not even in the security business and I know it would be fatal to publish a Chrome build without cors. What I can't understand is why would they ever disable it? Seems almost like an act of malice. ~~~ wepple I'd argue Comodo isn't a security company. It's a software company that markets software which intends to have a positive effect on one aspect of your security (namely, malware). They're using 20 yearold ineffective techniques to do attempt to have a positive effect on your security, and whether there is a positive, negative, or neutral net effect is to be debated. They continue to make hundreds of millions of dollars, so they keep going. Edit: are you talking about this: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8866784](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8866784) ? I'd have thought a company like whitehatsec _would_ be able to do a better job with a browser. ------ jameslk I just uninstalled this "Internet Security" piece of software recently and had only kept it on my media PC because it was more of a burden to remove it. Once upon a time, they used to receive high marks for their antivirus software, but as of late, their antivirus software has done nothing but plague me with ads that popup over the taskbar and rob me of my computational resources. It isn't surprising that it is also riddled with security issues like this. This seems to be the trend in antivirus software (like the other gangbuster revelation with Trend Micro). They've slowly turned their software into the crapware they used to defend against in response to their increasing irrelevance. ------ sarciszewski Comodo should have crashed and burned years ago. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Wl2FW2TcA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Wl2FW2TcA) ~~~ jakub_g Interesting video, thanks for sharing. One question about it if you don't mind: with the Moxie's proposed client-based solution, how do I know that the communication with notaries is safe? If there's an (active) MITM in the network, they could hijack the connections to all the notaries as well, and whatever the query from client, they'd respond "yeah that cert is totally valid". I guess I'd have to manually install notaries and somehow verify their certs myself upon installation. Edit: well I could rely on Firefox/Chrome to prebundle some "trusted" notaries' certs, like they do with CA certs now, but then I would be able to delete all but a few, contrary to the current situation where deleting some CA certs is breaking the internet. ~~~ sarciszewski I don't even know if Convergence is being maintained anymore, but pinning the public key of the notaries would make an active MITM nigh-impossible. ------ snakebitten101 Comodo's browsers should not be trusted. They have jumped the shark and do not value their users security or privacy in the slightest. Why do I say so? For things like this: [http://forums.comodo.com/help- cd-b206.0/-t108748.0.html](http://forums.comodo.com/help- cd-b206.0/-t108748.0.html) ------ __jal Their PKI infrastructure was compromised a few years back, too. Obviously a very different corner of the security landscape, but it doesn't seem like they've gotten any more careful. Avoid. ------ JohnTHaller Comodo's "secure" browsers have a tendency to lag rather badly behind Chrome. So a major security fix will land in Chrome and be pushed to stable along with the relevant security bug being made public but Comodo's Chrome-based browser won't land the patch for weeks or months. ------ AdmiralAsshat Wow, that's disconcerting. Different product, but I'm almost tempted to uninstall the Comodo Firewall that's running on my Windows laptop out of fear that there's some other blatant security blunder waiting to be exploited. Anyone have any suggestions for a free firewall alternative? ~~~ jve Are you using Windows? What's wrong with the Built-in Advanced Firewall? ~~~ josefresco Pretty much this. I stopped using Comodo when the built in Firewall was "good enough" I did miss (briefly) the yay/nay for every connection that Comodo offered. ------ twiss I don't understand the testcase they provide. It opens a window at [https://ssl.comodo.com/](https://ssl.comodo.com/) and sends a message to it with `postMessage`. However, the whole point of postMessage is to provide cross-origin communication. Continuing, the message they send is: { command: "execCode", code: "alert(document.cookie)", } Apparently [https://ssl.comodo.com/](https://ssl.comodo.com/) used to then proceed to execute that code. However, this is not a vulnerability in the browser, but in that website. Am I missing something? Was Chromodo breaking the `messageEvent.origin` property, breaking same-origin checks in JavaScript? Seems far-fetched. ~~~ lolc What postMessage() does is immaterial. This is where it should fail, referencing into another domain: obj.postMessage ~~~ twiss No, that shouldn't fail. `postMessage` is not a random function defined inside the window at ssl.comodo.com. It's a function defined by the browser, available on every Window object, including ones returned by window.open(): [https://developer.mozilla.org/docs/Web/API/Window/postMessag...](https://developer.mozilla.org/docs/Web/API/Window/postMessage) ~~~ lolc Thanks for the correction. I didn't know postMessage() was special. Now I too am confused as to why the browser should be to blame here. ------ vetrom Empowering Honest Achmed worldwide since 2011! ------ mschuster91 Guess the reason is because some site failed to implement CORS. But, on the other side, it's a TRUE PITA to debug. ------ JukEboX I can't find any information as to how you would contract this. ~~~ cjbprime What do you mean by contract? You download it from [https://www.comodo.com/home/browsers-toolbars/chromodo- priva...](https://www.comodo.com/home/browsers-toolbars/chromodo-private- internet-browser.php).	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness - flannery http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-homeless-funding-proposals-los-angeles-20150921-story.html ====== EnderMB I remember reading something about how one of the biggest hurdles of tackling homelessness is dealing with those who were made homeless through a history of mental illness. If someone suffers homelessness due to mental illness, I'm sure that chucking them in with a bunch of other homeless people in a shared home isn't going to fix the problem, so it'll be interesting to see how these people will be treated. $100m isn't really a lot, but if that money can be offered to help people that need more than money and a roof over their head, it could do some genuine good. ~~~ DanBC Rates of mental illness are higher in the homeless population than the general population. But it's important to recognise that most homeless or vulnerably housed people do not have a mental illness; and that sometimes it's the homelessness that has caused the mental health problem. I totally agree that the solution is not "just build more homes", but needs to include better access to debt management; better access to drug and alcohol rehab; better access to work; and better access to MH treatment. [http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pd...](http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pdf) > According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, > 20 to 25% of the homeless population in the United States suffers from some > form of severe mental illness. In comparison, only 6% of Americans are > severely mentally ill (National Institute of Mental Health, 2009). In a 2008 > survey performed by the U.S. Conference of Mayors, 25 cities were asked for > the three largest causes of homelessness in their communities. Mental > illness was the third largest cause of homelessness for single adults > (mentioned by 48% of cities). For homeless families, mental illness was > mentioned by 12% of cities as one of the top 3 causes of homelessness ~~~ akshatpradhan >But it's important to recognise that most homeless or vulnerably housed people do not have a mental illness This can't be right. A previous HN discussed how "almost half of homeless men had traumatic brain injury in their lifetime" Source: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648933](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648933) ~~~ DanBC Brain injury is not mental illness. It's brain injury. (It might lead to intellectual disability but there's nothing in your linked document that talks about the severity of the TBI.) ------ Omniusaspirer These cities create the homeless problem by enabling the lifestyle. It's a taboo thing to say but spend enough time in different locations and you learn very quickly that the homeless are shameless opportunists who go wherever they can most leech off society. My entire childhood growing up I never saw a single homeless person despite growing up in an impoverished rural area. It was viciously cold outside in the winter and people were very quick to take advantage of local services and get themselves back to a position where they could afford shelter. These days I live in Ann Arbor and we have a fairly serious homeless problem (I get harassed on the street nearly every time I walk downtown). The city itself offers excellent resources for the homeless to both survive and "get back on their feet", a situation that has not gone unnoticed by surrounding districts which have literally loaded up vans with homeless people and driven them 40 miles to dump them in Ann Arbor. [http://www.mlive.com/news/ann- arbor/index.ssf/2014/11/ann_ar...](http://www.mlive.com/news/ann- arbor/index.ssf/2014/11/ann_arbor_homeless_shelter_rep.html#incart_river) The homeless are absolutely a problem, but you're naive if you think anything done to address the problem on a per city basis is going to fix anything. This is a national issue that calls for expanded mental services, more rehabilitation, _and_ strict policing. Anything done on a smaller level will just encourage migration of homeless to take advantage. EDIT: I'm fine with downvoting, but I do ask that you give me solid factual and evidence based arguments for why my point is wrong. Implying I lack compassion is neither accurate or a useful discussion of how to address this problem, and that's where my interest lies when I make a comment like this. ~~~ aidos You'd do very well not to try not to hold this opinion in your mind: "the homeless are shameless opportunists who go wherever they can most leech off society" You've basically tarred a whole class of (often vulnerable) humans with your predisposed judgements. It's a dangerous thing to do. I'm in a privileged position, and in all honesty, I don't know enough about homelessness to make particularly informed comments on the subject. You need to start with compassion and an attempt at understanding otherwise you won't get anywhere. Look at the situation in Europe right now, there are literally millions of refugees that will become part of the homeless class. "shameless opportunists"? I think not. What about the kids born into it? ~~~ humanrebar > I don't know enough about homelessness to make particularly informed > comments on the subject. But you know enough to say omniusaspirer is wrong? > What about the kids born into it? What about the children? Should we debate about their place in society instead of fixing the system that created homeless kids? That same question can be used to accuse the hug-away-homelessness types of perpetuating perverse incentives. I'm pretty sure I don't know how to help the homeless as a group, but you can't eat melodrama. Give a grumpy person half the leeway you'd give a panhandler, please. ~~~ aidos I think you've taken my comments in a pretty uncharitable way. I don't need to know anything _at all_ about homelessness to know that looking down on _any_ group in society as a whole unit is wrong (and unproductive). I'm not using a flawed "what about the children" argument here, in case you misunderstood. It's pretty straightforward; there are people literally born into a situation that they have no control over, so you can't make any judgements about their character due to the life they've "chosen". Of course that's a single extreme example to prove a point. You don't need to do much research to see that this isn't a class of people who have chosen to take an easy path to leach of society. [http://england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns/why_we_campaign/tack...](http://england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns/why_we_campaign/tackling_homelessness/What_causes_homelessness) ~~~ ebfe >there are people literally born into a situation that they have no control over And similarly, Omniusaspirer (along with every other person) was literally born into a situation that he had no control over. So you can't make any judgements about his character, right? ~~~ aidos I think this is all just getting a little pedantic and picky (if you see my other comment to Omniusaspirer you'll see I'm trying to be more productive). But in response to your question – I fail to see where I'm making a judgements based on a stereotype. All I was saying is that it's dangerous to form a narrative based on stereotypes. ------ 6t6t6 Is there any way a person with a mental illness get a proper treatment in US? I mean, for some one who is unable to work because he has, for instance, schizophrenia, clinical depression or alcoholism, is there any option apart from indigence? ~~~ sandworm101 Jail and/or prison. That is where many of them end up. Some judges would rather see someone get "treatment" in custody than get nothing on the street. ~~~ anon4 Jail is different from prison how? ~~~ sandworm101 Jail is for pre-trial sentencing and sentences under one year. So many of the people have not been convicted. Jails spend most of their energies sorting people into various risk categories. There are few if any 'treatment' programs in jails. Prisons are where people actually serve meaningful time. Everyone is in for at least a year and everyone is an actually convicted criminal, not just someone awaiting trial. ~~~ dragonwriter > Jail is for pre-trial sentencing and sentences under one year. In _California_ , specifically, since the recent prison realignment adopted to address Federal court orders with regard to California's overcrowded state prisons, that is substantially less true than it used to be; many non-serious, non-violent, non-sex offenders sentenced to more than one year are now sent to county jails, and population pressure resulting from that has reduced pre- trial detention in many county jails, as well. ~~~ sandworm101 There is some wiggle room. The one-year thing is more to do with how much time one is expected to serve, rather than the sentence. Time already served can also alter the math. So someone spending 6-months in jail pre-trial and then sentenced to 14 months would normally be sent back to jail as they only have 8 months remaining. And to your point, where it is very unlikely that someone will server their entire sentence prior to parol, they will normally do that time in a jail. This isn't always a bad thing. Some convicts would rather not be moved to a new facility. Jails are normally closer to the place of arrest (usually near home) and by the point sentencing happens families have already developed some sort of routine for visitation. Sending them out of town, even if to a better facility, is not always in the inmate's best interest. ------ Axsuul I'm really glad to see this issue on the front page. I live in downtown LA and I'm on the front lines of this epidemic. It does seem like the situation is getting worse. I wonder if technology can somehow play a role here. I would gladly fund some of the "regulars" around here via some type of Watsi-esque solution. ~~~ icebraining _I wonder if technology can somehow play a role here. I would gladly fund some of the "regulars" around here via some type of Watsi-esque solution._ That's what HandUp ([https://handup.org/](https://handup.org/)) is doing. ~~~ vjoshi I think it can. I think if we are absolutely fine with sponsoring animals and finding them new homes etc .. why not apply a similar model for homeless people? An organisation can tailor a plan best fit to each individual and crowd funding can help get them on their feet .. states sponsorships/grants etc can surely be utilised here also for training schemes etc. So now it's not just about giving someone a roof over their head but a life back. Well, this is off the top of my head, could use some input obvs but allow the talking. Let's get started :) ------ yurylifshits San Francisco should do something too. I'd love pay an extra tax to fund solutions to this massive problem. ~~~ jakeogh I donate to people, but is forcing (violently if necessary) other people to do the same ethical? Aren't there better ways? ~~~ vacri No. This libertarian idea that people would give more if they weren't taxed is utter bullshit. As is the idea that every human is an island. We're all in this together. The charities people give to? For the most part, it's acute and visible charities. Very few people give to the same charity again and again, over the course of decades. People also give to attractive charities - kids with terminal diseases is a much easier charity to raise money for than mental health in young adults. Same with animals - people care about cruelty to dogs, but they don't care about cruelty to voles. And while you haven't said it, another libertarian refrain is that people would donate _more_ than they get taxed, which is obvious nonsense, because nothing is stopping them from disposing of that extra money. Anyway, if you don't want "violent" (stupid bloody redefining, that) taxes, then move to Vanuatu. It has good weather, happy people, a small government, and the army is so small it's also the police force (fewer than a thousand people). There's no income tax. Of course, there's little comparable in the way of infrastructure or services, but you'll get to live the libertarian dream of hiring your own garbage collector instead of having one violently forced on you by the incompetant apparatus of the overbearing state. ~~~ winter_blue > This libertarian idea that people would give more if they weren't taxed is > utter bullshit. This. Libertarians live in some sort of idealistic fantasy, _where most humans are intrinsically good_ , and inclined to do good, like help the poor and needy around them. _That_ is emphatically not the nature of the average human. We absolutely need to force and coerce people to do good, under the threat of violence (for non-payment of taxes). ~~~ dchest Who are "we, the good people, who force others" then? If democracy is the rule of majority and the majority of people are "not good", then you're ruled by people who are "not good". If government enforced people to do "good" (not smoke marijuana, preventing gay people from reproducing, allowed building with asbestos), and then the changed their mind (allowed to smoke marijuana, allowed gay people are to reproduce, banned asbestos), did they enforce the "good"? ------ thangalin [http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/22/home- free](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/22/home-free) Technology to expedite housing construction would be helpful. ------ vjoshi To add, seems things are going in the right direction after all: [http://refhubuk.wix.com/refhub](http://refhubuk.wix.com/refhub) ------ ilaksh [http://runvnc.github.io/tinyvillage/](http://runvnc.github.io/tinyvillage/) ------ happyscrappy In the US you cannot forcibly put someone in a homeless shelter, if they refuse to go there is nothing you can do about it. People die on the streets in Boston every year because of this but it would be impossible to pass a law forcing them. ------ elcct Why exactly homelessness is a problem? ~~~ onion2k There are two sorts of wealth - private wealth and public wealth. Private wealth is your nice house, your fancy car, your money in the bank. Having lots of private wealth is great and it means you lead a comfortable life. Public wealth is the society you live in. It's the quality of the roads you drive on, the cleanliness of the streets, the safety you feel walking around a city. To be happy you need both kinds of wealth. If you live in a big, expensive house and you drive a Ferrari, but there are parts of the city you live in where you don't want to go, then you aren't living a rich, full life. There'll be a constant reminder of how there are people worse off than you, and that will make you feel awful. People who are homeless effectively make _everyone_ worse off. Helping to fix their problems makes your own life better. ~~~ elcct You still have not explained why homelessness is a problem. There is plenty of places on earth I wouldn't go to, for example Northern Canada it doesn't mean I am not living a full life. Should I be on the quest of speeding up global warming to be able to see palm trees growing there and finally make it suitable for me to go? Nonsense. ------ chvid Funny how leaders rather would declare "state of emergency" than alter the city planning that causes too little housing to be built. ~~~ XorNot That's not really how homelessness tends to work though. ------ cbeach House prices rise because an area is prospering. Those with no investment in the area are forced to move to an area they can afford. Such is life for all of us. ~~~ zyxley > are forced to move to an area they can afford And what about the people who can't afford to move in the first place? ~~~ vjoshi zyxley, you took the words right out of my mouth .. Relative poverty is just not considered important enough in this world by some to do something about .. but then when that very person who could have been helped earlier on isn't, the media cry a river over their worsened condition and misfortune.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
German 270 syllabus: sovereignty and the limits of globalization and technology - haaen https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5677718-Thiel-German-270-Syllabus.html ====== haaen Stanford course by Russell Berman and Peter Thiel	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN:A wrapper for GraphQL-dotnet that makes life easier - michannne https://github.com/Michannne/graphql-core/ ====== michannne Hi, I'm the creator of this library. I created it because at our business we are developing more React applications and it made sense to use GraphQL to speed up development time (less REST endpoints we have to create, less atomic code in the UI). I came upon a wonderful library called GraphQL-dotnet[0] that enables creation of a GraphQL schema in C# .NET Core. The problem is that upon using this library, I noticed there was way too much boilerplate. Far too much to implement it in our seemingly endless APIs with our hundreds of models. So, I decided to create a wrapper over it to make it easier to use models we already have defined, and make it so we can pull it out and put it in any of our services with minimal hassle. The result is GraphQL-Core (the name is in no way meant as a jab to GraphQL-dotnet team or the project, it is a fantastic solution to an ever-growing problem) This wrapper does not do Mutations, as we tend to use atomic REST endpoints for those, but I hope I can add support to it in the future, and that this sparks other C#-based teams to adopt GraphQL in their projects. If you find this project useful for you, thanks, and if you'd like to thank me, it would be very helpful if you could contribute some of your own ideas/code/design to the project, to make it easy for everyone to use! [0]: [https://github.com/graphql-dotnet/graphql- dotnet/](https://github.com/graphql-dotnet/graphql-dotnet/)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Suspicious court cases, missing defendants, aim to get webpages taken down - ohjeez https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/10/10/dozens-of-suspicious-court-cases-with-missing-defendants-aim-at-getting-web-pages-taken-down-or-deindexed/?postshare=6791476107006382&tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.0143e0970aee ====== tlb Good work by the WaPo for getting to the bottom of this. This shows an important reason why court proceedings should be openly accessible _at scale_. Lawyers can spread legal DOS attacks out across jurisdictions, where individual judges would have a hard time discovering the pattern. Allowing citizens to do large scale pattern matching will uncover such things. ~~~ stcredzero The courts, justice system, and police are _horrible_ by the standards of information access in the 21st century. If you are a victim in an incident, do you know how long it takes to get a copy of the police report? 10 business days. So it's entirely possible that someone who has a hearing for a restraining order, who may not realize that it may be in their interest to have a copy, to be caught flat-footed. And the personal experience of getting it may well be pretty bad as well. The clerk seems to talk to you like you're some scum -- as if you were the perpetrator. (And yes, I was polite, and yes, she knew I was the victim.) The reason for the delay -- they have to redact the private information of the assailant. How in the world does that take them 10 days? On top of all that, they insist that you bring correct change. Also, you will note that there is the typical bureaucratic nonchalance bordering on hostility in the lack of customer service. No attempt at greeting or showing you are noticed or matter in any way. No air of politeness, but even an undertone of contempt -- and that's being perhaps way too charitable. My overwhelming suspicion -- as someone who went to an Ivy League school -- is that I was being treated as "yet another brown person," and that if one of my classmates with a different appearance was present, they would have been treated differently. (Though they still would have had to wait 10 days to get a redacted copy of a sheaf of papers.) And that's just one example. Such horribleness is all over those systems. I had a hearing get moved 40 miles away -- apparently en-masse because of a computer system change -- with no notification to myself or my lawyer. I didn't even find out about that until we showed up. Sure, the US system is fantastic compared to other places in the world and justice during the middle ages. However, there's still a lot to it that's horrible. EDIT: The takeaway from this article, my experience, and from many accounts of the justice system in the US, is that it is good on the large contexts of the world and history. However, it's still capable of cruel and arbitrary effects that run drastically counter to reality. Many of these effects come as myriad little "bites" or as if one is fighting a current. And the direction of these effects is strongly influenced by perceived socioeconomic status and race. This is still not up to the point of "good governance." ~~~ Fiahil > My overwhelming suspicion -- as someone who went to an Ivy League school -- > is that I was being treated as "yet another brown person," Isn't that the way it's supposed to be? It's an old concept: In the eyes of the law, people don't get special treatment depending on their social status. ~~~ PhasmaFelis Did you miss the part where they were treated worse because of their skin color? ~~~ blackbagboys Yes, because that part wasn't there, just the parent's unsubstantiated suspicion that racism was the likeliest explanation for an unpleasant experience in dealing with low-level government bureaucrats. ~~~ stcredzero Be more careful in your reading. There is a certain way that people talk to someone they view as considerably inferior. The fact that people working in a place so quickly shift into that mode, even when it's at odds with the facts of the particular situation, is a very strong indicator that some sort of prejudice is at play. Whether or not it's racism, it's certainly not compatible with good governance. ------ jdmichal I know there's a few lawyers here. Assuming that these lawsuits were filed against non-existent defendants, and that the agreements from these "defendants" were actually written and submitted by the plaintiff -- What's the realistic punishment here? Would these false documents be sworn statements, and if so, would that put perjury on the table? ~~~ rasz_pl Prenda Law took >6 years and nobody is in prison, what makes you think this will be any different? ~~~ dragonwriter > Prenda Law took >6 years and nobody is in prison, what makes you think this > will be any different? Well, for one thing, Prenda Law controlled the entities (or they were completely fictional) that were the plaintiffs in its cases, whereas the "reputation management firms" here are apparently filing cases with their reputation management clients as named plaintiffs which the clients apparently don't know about and don't approve, and object to once they are actually made aware of them. And they use the results to influence third parties besides the defendants, and the defendants aren't generally doing something that they want to hide from attention. From the appearance of what is going on here, there are lots of reasons to think that this scam could blow up much faster on its perpetrators than Prenda Law measured from the first time someone noticed something funny going on. ~~~ thaumasiotes > the "reputation management firms" here are apparently filing cases with > their reputation management clients as named plaintiffs which the clients > apparently don't know about and don't approve, and object to once they are > actually made aware of them That's quite a leap from "don't want to take the fall". ------ JoshTriplett A particularly interesting buried lede in the article: > And the possibility of such shenanigans bears on the Hassell v. Bird > litigation that is now before the California Supreme Court: The issue there > (see here and here) is whether takedown injunctions can actually be made > legally binding on Internet platforms, rather than just being something that > platforms choose whether to follow. The questionable nature of many such > injunctions is reason to further insist that platforms not be legally bound > by them. That would be a major win, if successful. ~~~ defen > whether takedown injunctions can actually be made legally binding on > Internet platforms, rather than just being something that platforms choose > whether to follow If they're not legally binding, what incentive do Internet platforms have to follow them? It seems like it adds work and overhead; so what strategic or economic or other goals would following non-legally-binding injunctions further? ~~~ dragonwriter > If they're not legally binding, what incentive do Internet platforms have to > follow them? Third-party injunctions of the type at issue here (third-party in that the internet platform is not a party to the case) are _usually_ followed by platforms to remove or deindex content because the existence of the third- party injunction provides more basis than a simple request to suspect that a direct lawsuit against the search company would also result in a direct injunction (which would be obligatory, in any case.) ------ ChuckMcM Wow, I kind of expected one of the Prenda Law lawyers to be behind something like this. It makes perfect sense, you have people with money who want their past or actions to be somehow erased from discovery, and you have people who will come up with creative ways to achieve that and thus give themselves access to that money. But the really interesting thing is to watch how people react when something they used to be able to "get away with" is made impossible through technical means. Whether it is speed limiters on CPUs, copy protection on media, or poorly monitored traffic intersections. ~~~ kaffeemitsahne _> speed limiters on CPUs_ What? ~~~ david-given From the old mainframe days, when you bought machines by, basically subscription --- you paid for a support contract and the hardware was usually provided as part of that. Different grades of support contract gave you different classes of machine, but frequently all the hardware was the same, just with bits disabled. If you upgraded your contract, they'd send a tech round who would flip some switches inside and, say, double your clock speed, or enable some more CPUs, etc. ~~~ DiabloD3 Aka the IBM model. ------ OliverJones What a nightmare for the takedown-request teams at the online companies! Abuse of the court system is going to be very expensive and time-consuming for them to assess. Contempt of court or perjury prosecutions of the originators of some of these fraudulent lawsuits might serve as a deterrent. A little jail time goes a long way. ~~~ wyager Innocent people should not be on the hook for the fact that the system is so broken that people can sue non-existent parties. It's fine if the courts make mistakes sometimes, but if they're too incompetent to correctly use the powers given to them, those powers need to be scaled back to a level commensurate with the courts' abilities. ~~~ Thrillington And what do you propose to replace them? ~~~ wyager Why replace these functions of the court? Forced content removal has no place in a free society. ~~~ CPLX > Forced content removal has no place in a free society. How about we post a very convincing article on what appears to be a respected local newspaper site claiming that you've been arrested for sexual relations with an animal, conduct some solid SEO on it, and then send you out into the job market? Perhaps you'd revise your views on this subject. Libel and slander are ancient common law principles for good reason. ~~~ jessaustin This outlandish scenario reads to me like, "won't somebody _please_ think of the children?" How could a normal person inspire such behavior? Having inspired it, what normal person could receive a satisfactory remedy through the courts? (Many people would _seek_ that, but they'd often be disappointed...) Besides, this scenario only takes one step. Think it through a bit further. _If_ such bizarre attacks become common, they'll lose their power because they'll no longer be believed. That would be a much better world than one in which lawyers must be hired every time an unsatisfactory restaurant review is written. ~~~ CPLX There's nothing hypothetical at all about using scandalous or embarrassing information about regular people to generate revenue. Some examples: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mug_shot_publishing_industry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mug_shot_publishing_industry) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenda_Law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenda_Law) ------ pasbesoin I hope we will start criminalizing such abuses of the legal system. And not just the plaintiffs, but their lawyers. Lest this nation "founded on law" become, by extension, a nation (further) founded on corruption. Civil cases deserve and need to remain civil. But blatant and deliberate and self-serving abuse of the system -- here perhaps including perjury and a form of libel -- should, in extremis, cost people their freedom, their licenses, and their membership in civil society. I'm mindful of the need for room for civil protest and other forms of law breaking. The law does need to be challenged and refined -- constantly. I'm not sure how to draw the line between e.g. those two (as well as in other distinctions). But, something needs to be done, or our legal system is going to be reduced to simply another arena for power plays, devoid of other integrity. P.S. I'm mindful that extreme abuses already are criminal. But enough abuse goes unchecked, that either the line needs to move, or enforcement needs to be more active and thorough. The legal profession needs to better consider that it is not exceptional, it is like any other institution: If you don't keep your own house in order, you will fall. ------ WhitneyLand Meet the con man behind most of this, Richart Ruddie. Notice how he includes Stanford in his username, and also lists it on his profile, when it looks like he just watched E145 on youtube. [https://linkedin.com/in/richartruddiestanford](https://linkedin.com/in/richartruddiestanford) Also some of the previous trouble he's been in: [http://structuredsettlements.typepad.com/structured_settleme...](http://structuredsettlements.typepad.com/structured_settlements_4r/2015/02/richart- ruddie-sued-for-conspiracy-and-deceptive-trade-practices-in-2012.html) ------ lightedman I smell perjury, filing false instruments, fraud, and libel. This is going to be great. ------ jxramos Could be an interesting opportunity to archive these "banned" websites and create a new site off of these cases. Pretty crazy abuse of power. Makes me think about the further shift away from print media, before libel and defamation were primarily ran via printed newspaper and what not. Now the focus shifts online. ------ jerf Another interesting angle to ponder is what this could do to websites hosting open comment sections on the web. Already a bit under fire for having low quality in many cases, I could see a lot of places taking down their comment sections if it's also going to open them to litigation. It doesn't take many lawsuits before the benefit the comment sections may be bringing is outweighed. I say this without judgment as to whether that would be good or bad; just musing about the second-order consequences. ~~~ Senji We'll just move to a P2P comment system which is implemented as a browser addon and adds a comments section to any website. ------ seomint Black Hat Lawyers? I hope they get nailed. ------ itsmemattchung I had no idea that one could submit legal documents to Google, requesting de- indexing on specific pages. This tactic, apparently, is quite common. ------ tehwalrus Isn't this plainly criminal, as in Perjury, on behalf of the people filing suits? ------ prdonahue Would be interested to see if any of these lawyers have connections to Reputation Defender[1] or any of the similar companies in this space? 1 - [https://www.reputationdefender.com/](https://www.reputationdefender.com/) ~~~ Sanddancer It seems like it. The woman who the Post is mentioning, Kathy Glatter, has a rather white-washed google presence, marred only by the article on her behavior, which quite likely is rather linked at the moment. [http://www.davisenterprise.com/local-news/north-davis- parent...](http://www.davisenterprise.com/local-news/north-davis-parent- responsible-for-gate-petition-forgeries/) ------ wmeredith This is next level blackhat SEO. With perjury and disbarment at stake. ------ gnarbarian Legal hax	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: Copycat – a free tool to synchronize files between repositories as PRs - ajaskiewicz https://developers.livechatinc.com/projects/development/copycat/ ====== ajaskiewicz Our devs built Copycat when creating our (LiveChat's) docs and then they decided to share it with the world. You can use it not only for synchronizing projects between repositories but also for sharing code between multiple projects or connecting a monorepo to a project’s own repository. Enjoy! ------ erbear To be honest, I would use package for this kind of situation. For example, in Ruby on Rails one could simply create gem and add it to two different repositories. Additional thing is that you have a version control. Nice work anyway!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
“Ninety percent of doctors I know are fed up with medicine.” - czik http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/17/health/views/17essa.html?em&ex=1214020800&en=8c0530d81bc8f12f&ei=5070 ====== jraines Yeah, my dad, a family practice physician for 20 years, would confirm this. His monthly overhead costs (in a tightly run physicians' group) are mind blowing and he has working hours and a sleep schedule that would stupify this 25 year old. He could work a quarter of the hours and make more money just doing ER work, but feels an obligation to his patient base. But there are many other doctors making that choice or choosing lucrative niche specialties, and who can blame them? There's almost no economic and lifestyle incentive to become a general practitioner anymore. Also, any time you have a complicated system that no one believes in, people are going to try to game it. So you have some doctors billing Medicare these huge sums for a patient coming in with a runny nose, and this further discourages the honest doctors. ------ patrickg-zill I know of no other field where you intensively train someone for years, then make them do routine paperwork that takes up 25% or more of their time. Do commercial jet pilots have to sign the purchase order for the jet fuel? That is the equivalent kind of paperwork that doctors have to do. ~~~ ovi256 They have a problem, we have an opportunity guys. Help automatise their paperwork and procedures! Nice big market, and clients with deep pockets. Do it right, and it'll spread virally, as they'll recommend your product to their collegues. Now, I could not tell you in what form and how this automatisation would work. Some standardizing (of data sharing etc) would help too. And furthermore, you would help them HELP people. ~~~ nradov There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of companies already doing this. If you have a good idea then go ahead and try, but you'll find that the sales cycle is slow, competition is fierce, and the pockets aren't all that deep. There are a variety of existing standards for data sharing from organizations like HL7, HITSP, IHE, ANSI, NCPDP, etc. The standards work but many vendors don't fully support them yet. And sharing healthcare data means you also have to enable your customers to comply with HIPAA privacy regulations as well as (sometimes) more restrictive state rules. ------ iamelgringo I've worked as an ER nurse for 15 years. I make it a habit to ask MD's that I know whether they would become a doctor if they had to do it all over again, and the vast majority tell me, "No". Adjusted for inflation, MD's salaries haven't gone up for over 20 years, in fact, they've decreased over the past 10 years: [http://www.hhnmag.com/hhnmag_app/jsp/articledisplay.jsp?dcrp...](http://www.hhnmag.com/hhnmag_app/jsp/articledisplay.jsp?dcrpath=HHNMAG/Article/data/12DEC2007/071211HHN_Online_Morrison&domain=HHNMAG) And, if Bush's medicare cuts go through and aren't postponed, many of the good doctors are going to be leaving 12-15 years of schooling behind and looking for a different career. ~~~ hobbs I've heard the same from the lawyers I know as well. Suddenly, being an IT professional doesn't seem that bad... ------ dazzawazza If they want they can come and work in the British NHS. A good GP here can get £100,000 a year. Of course you'll have to put up with the MRI taking weeks unless it's an emergency but it seems better then what that doctor suffered. I think the biggest difference here is that although people in the UK moan a lot about the National Health Service they do respect the doctors and staff and value their input to society. Who doesn't benefit from feeling respected and valued? ~~~ streety Probably not such a good idea. We can barely find enough positions for the doctors trained in this country. ~~~ dazzawazza ahh, but there are a lot of openings for GP's. Our medical students all want to be brain surgeons and don't seem to realise that without GP's most people would be dead before needing a brain surgeon. ------ baha_man "For me it's an endless amount of work that I can never get through to do it properly". Hands up anybody who's prepared to admit that this doesn't apply to their job, and they have plenty of time to do everything expected of them to their complete satisfaction. ------ hugh Couldn't they find more than one guy to interview for this article? One guy who happens to be a friend of the writer? ------ TheWama There are some young approaches to solving this problem. One I just discovered today is Qliance, a low-cost version of boutique care, dubbed "direct primary care." No insurance needed or accepted (thus no coding or paperwork), ~$50 a month, same or next-day appointments, 24hr access to care, they take their own xrays for free and dispense their own medicine at cost, &c. Aside from making workloads managable (800 patients instead of 2-3000), the really interesting part is how this does away with the perverse incentives of insurance payments (which reward procedures rather than health, and which turns primary care into 10 minute referral-fests, rather than actual care), as well as sets up other good incentives, which reward the doctors for keeping the patient healthy (healthy patients don't need to spend a bunch of time in your office) and so on. His talk is really interesting: [http://health.scribemedia.org/2008/01/21/garrison-bliss- pion...](http://health.scribemedia.org/2008/01/21/garrison-bliss-pioneer- medical-practice/) ------ dividendium Maybe we need to redefine the problem. Some of the suggestions below were about automating the paperwork. Why not automate the treatment? I mean consider how unscalable it is to have a doctor, an actual person, see each patient. At most they can get through one patient every 15 minutes. A doctor normally looks at a patient, asks them a few questions to rule out certain conditions and then prescribes a pill or requests a test for more information. Sounds like the perfect kind of job that software can do if it knew the parameters. The hard part is training the software, so you'd need doctors to perform treatments in a way that a computer can understand it (codified in some way) and then you need patients to report back on whether or not that treatment worked. There's your business opportunity and a real opportunity to help people, both the doctors and the patients. ~~~ nradov Sounds good. This will be practical just as soon as you invent an AI smart enough to make it through medical school and pass the boards. ~~~ yummyfajitas All the AI needs to do to be medically useful is obey the samurai principle: meet/exceed the effectiveness of a doctor on some subset of patients, and `raise GoSeeARealDoctorException` on the rest. I'm sure regulators/politicians/medical establishment won't like it. But the technical problem isn't all that bad (and has actually been solved by machine learning for a few use cases). ------ copenja My uncle is a surgeon and he complains about the same things: Overheads are getting huge, profits are shrinking, etc. Meanwhile, however, he lives in a friggin mansion. Seriously,a mansion. Not saying this is the common case, just one observation. ------ kingkongrevenge Over half of doctors are glorified con-artists. The MO of modern American medicine is to sucker in trusting patients and write prescriptions and perform procedures at great cost that empirically do not work. The doctors are feeling frustrated because the jig is up. There are too many of them and society can't afford the con game anymore. ~~~ msg I downvoted because there are a lot of assertions here without sources or context. My anecdotal experience, where my wife is in the doctor's office routinely due to Hashimoto's disease, is that your mileage may vary. We went to an immunologist who sat on his hands and waited for several months for her thyroid to get enough out of whack before he ordered more testing. We've had several incompetent doctors who failed to diagnose conditions that harmed her health and the health of our son. On the other hand, since we've moved and had to find new doctors, we've gotten some really helpful doctors who really know their business and have been clearing up longstanding immune problems. The right doctors have really been great for us, the wrong doctors have really been bad. The first close citation I found for your argument was here: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2007/12...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2007/12/03/AR2007120301771.html) There was a study that most doctors have high standards, but they would fail to report colleagues who didn't meet those standards. However, they appear to claim that reporting would not solve the problem, just lead to its own set of headaches. I would say that America needs to follow the money to get to the bottom of this problem. The prices of medical care just aren't commensurate with the costs anymore. Ease the financial pressure and the whole system will probably improve. ~~~ kingkongrevenge > there are a lot of assertions here without sources or context. I don't have time to build the full case. The nutshell version is that modern medicine is dominated by pharmaceuticals. Doctors are largely in the pill dispensing business. Problem is, the pills don't work. Spend more than fifteen minutes reading about the cholesterol and statin racket for just one example, and this is a huge billion dollar thing. It's a big chunk of what doctors do to earn a living. My familiarity with the business comes from the software side of pharma sales. For another example read about long term efficacy of many kinds of chemo and heart surgery. The stuff just doesn't really work, but it sure costs a lot. Doctors are something like the fifth leading cause of death. Malpractice is rife. Modern medicine is great for trauma, injuries, and various acute diseases. But the financial reality of health care is that most of the spending and most of what doctors do is about lifestyle diseases, and the treatments are useless. They give pills and order tons of tests for people who should really just be told that there's nothing to be done other than better diet and exercise, or maybe bed rest. They also blow millions on people who are simply in the process of dying, mostly of old age, and the treatments are empirically known to do nothing. ~~~ arn "Doctors are largely in the pill dispensing business." You do realize that doctors don't make any more money based on medications they prescribe. "Problem is, the pills don't work. ..... and the treatments are empirically known to do nothing." I don't really want to get into a big discussion about it because I know I won't be able to convince you. But this is just wrong. Many pills do work. Modern medicine is based on the scientific method and millions on dollars are spent on studies to prove that therapies work. Strnagely enough, insurance companies are part of the gatekeepers for this, since they don't want to pay out of their pockets to provide expensive care for things that don't work. On the other hand, much of "natural" medicine and homeopathic medicine are based in anectodal evidence and not on any large scale scientific evidence. ~~~ dividendium "Strnagely enough, insurance companies are part of the gatekeepers for this, since they don't want to pay out of their pockets to provide expensive care for things that don't work." Consider the economics here. If something is not expensive, you don't need insurance. So it's in the insurance companies' interests to inflate the prices so more people will need health insurance and can't pay for procedures out of pocket. The insurance companies just have to raise their premiums to compensate, and the larger the amounts of money passing through their hands, the easier it is for them to keep some of it. I'm not attacking insurance companies, just pointing out that it's not entirely logical to assume that their interests are aligned with yours. ~~~ arn I'm not saying they are the only gatekeeper. But point is, pharmaceudical companies can't just create a medication and claim it "does xyz" and expect that people will pay for it. These medications are reviewed before being "covered" by insurance companies or medicare (goverenment), so it's not a free for all, as implied in the original poster's comment. ------ jcdreads This article, while greatly interesting, isn't really hacker news. Unless we're talking about really, really sloppy doctors. Perhaps this would fit better at reddit instead. ~~~ mechanical_fish Spoken like a person who has never had to answer the question "why are you an engineer when the big money, the prestige, and the long-term career prospects are all in medicine or law"? Sometimes it's useful to remember that other fields have Dilberts, too.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
New phenomenon breaks inbound TCP policing - RachelF https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2530363 ====== colanderman Title is wrong; updates come over TCP that has been modified not to perform link sharing. I have seen this with my wife's computer. Though I haven't seen the large- window phenomenon (haven't looked), what I do see is dozens of active connections opened to the same destination, which of course defeats both TCP's link sharing and standard QoS algorithms. I work around the issue by bucketing any Akamai IP ranges I find into a very- low-priority queue, and let those TCP connections fight it out. Seems to have worked well. For those interested, here are the Akamai IP ranges I use: 23.0.0.0/12 23.32.0.0/11 23.64.0.0/14 23.72.0.0/13 104.64.0.0/10 2001:428:4403::/48 2001:428:4404::/48 2001:428:4405::/48 2001:428:4406::/48 2600:1400::/24 ~~~ rhubarbquid It's also not Windows 10 specific, the post also mentions Office updates ~~~ JonathonW There's a mention somewhere in the middle of the thread that someone had seen something similar with Apple's software updates, too: maybe it's a more general Akamai issue? Even if it is isolated to the servers distributing MS's updates, I'm having trouble seeing how this could even be MS's fault-- it's the server side (owned and operated by Akamai) that's misbehaving here. ~~~ colanderman I'm not convinced either way. Windows Update is the one opening the dozens of connections (it has to if it's behind a firewall), not Akamai; Akamai's just serving the data. But Windows Update is possibly just calling out to an Akamai library that opens the dozens of connections on its behalf. If there are also congestion-algorithm shenanigans like the forum post suggests, then Akamai is definitely at fault. But the issue I see is that of connection hogging. ~~~ kev009 * [https://developer.akamai.com/stuff/Optimization/TCP_Optimiza...](https://developer.akamai.com/stuff/Optimization/TCP_Optimizations.html) * [https://www.akamai.com/us/en/about/news/press/2013-press/aka...](https://www.akamai.com/us/en/about/news/press/2013-press/akamai-speeds-downloads-and-online-video-quality.jsp) ------ chadnickbok Hey cool, someone forgetting _yet again_ why we use TCP. We don't use TCP because its fast. We don't use it because its reliable (although that's really useful). We use it because _we kept breaking the internet_. Once you get above a certain threshold, the network can't keep up with you and packets start getting dropped. The problem is that backing off just a little doesn't allow the network to recover. Instead, we need to use exponential backoff in the face of packet loss to ensure that the network as a whole can recover. But if you're pretty much the only connection misbehaving, and everything else backs off, then you can kinda get away with not using exponential backoff. The problem is that the applications that is was "kinda okay" to do this for was VOIP and friends, where realtime delivery is really important and exponential backoff causes noticeable drops in quality. For a great read about these kinds of issues, check out the TCP-Friendly rate control RFC: [https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5348](https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5348) ~~~ wtallis > Once you get above a certain threshold, the network can't keep up with you > and packets start getting dropped. The problem is that backing off just a > little doesn't allow the network to recover. Another aspect of this problem is that the network is too hesitant to drop packets [1], so by the time you've noticed packet loss things have gotten bad enough that the drastic backoff is needed. Widespread deployment of ECN and AQM would allow for more rapid feedback before any huge backlog develops, and consequently a less extreme response to congestion signals could be used. [1] Arista would rather their 10GbE switches add up to 100ms of queuing delay per port than drop a packet: [https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/cerowrt- devel/2016-J...](https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/cerowrt- devel/2016-June/010701.html) ~~~ jfindley Slightly OT, but that link is _astonishing_. That anyone can think adding 100ms of latency to a 10Gbe switch, even under heavy contention is a good feature is absolutely staggering. ~~~ iofj It's not quite 100ms. A bit less. The explanation is simple : if tcp exponential backoff fires, you will have a very bad time on any tcp connection. Site owners, obviously, don't want that. Try this : iptables -A INPUT -m statistic --mode random --probability 0.001 -j DROP And see how your internet works. TLDR: sometimes loading times go through the roof, some instant messages go through in <0.1s, and on occasion it takes 30+ seconds, on occasion it's a DNS query that gets dropped and a page load suddenly takes 1 minute for no identifiable reason, large downloads always "get fucked" (suddenly lose 90% of their bandwidth and take several minutes to recover). Burstly traffic doesn't work. If you start your firefox with 20+ tabs open 80% of them will never load. You will not enjoy the experience. So yes, people think that adding 100ms of latency is better than dropping a packet under contention. ~~~ wtallis Your numbers are ridiculous. There's a huge gulf between buffering _millions_ of packets per switch port before a single drop, and a 1 in 1000 drop probability. You're also assuming that the drops are indiscriminate when a refusal to consider AQM and fair queuing is what led Arista to this absurdity in the first place, and you're presuming that latencies would still be astronomical in a world without massive queues. A 10GbE network in a datacenter without bufferbloat would have RTTs orders of magnitude smaller than the 100ms queuing delay Arista considers acceptable; the effects of a congestion event would be ancient history by the time Arista's queues could drain. Even outside the datacenter, 100ms is a pretty long time for most connections in a managed-queue world. A congestion event on a device using fq_codel won't kill your DNS request or TCP handshake; it'll slow down an established flow and if you're using ECN you won't even lose a packet. It's only in a DDoS-like scenario of thousands of unresponsive connections (such as TCPs with a large initial window) beginning to transmit simultaneously that you'd see some flows getting unfairly penalized, but things would equalize within a few RTTs if the traffic was real TCP and not a true DDoS. You only see it take _minutes_ for a download's throughput to recover if you're going over multiple satellite links or through a severely bloated queue. ~~~ iofj Okay make it one in a million. You will still be able to tell, and still see the phenomena I'm talking about. ------ chopsywa I was the OP in the Whirlpool post. I use Mikrotik extensively to manage connections and have done for many years. This has only become an issue recently and it has happened enough times now for me to ascertain that it is when there is a Windows 10, or Office 2016 using the new Windows update doing its thing. I have tried to limit the issue by creating limited new tcp connections per second to any given IP address and even limit maximum concurrent connections.I have seen on occasion during this issue occuring a sudden huge burst of new outbound connections. I was thinking this would cause a type of DOS attack with thousands of SYN ACKS coming back. The real kicker is that the connections are all to servers (Akamai) on port 80, so any serious blocking breaks all web browsing. The cynic in me says the whole Windows 10 update thing has been made to operate in lockdown environments when non-well known ports are blocked. Intentional, or not, the Internet is basically broken while this happens as Windows is ubiquitous and people all over the world who have successfully used inbound rate limiting to create successful shared Internet connections are going to be getting angry support calls. I hope my post goes viral so it starts to get seen by the likes of Microsoft and Akamai engineers. The local ISP I spoke to where I initially noticed this problem pretty much fobbed me off with the old "nobody else has reported the issue." ~~~ riskable Well, the good news is that this is a temporary problem. There's only so many computers out there that will get the Windows 10 upgrade and presumably that number will drop like a rock as PCs either get upgraded or the users switch to Linux ;) ~~~ MertsA Windows 10 updates going forward will use the same method. ------ jsnell Where did the HN submission title get UDP from? I don't see anyone in that thread suggesting that the updates were done in UDP, and all the traffic in the trace file is all TCP. The trace is indeed a total mess, but I'm not convinced it's anything to do with TCP acceleration. There's absolutely massive levels of reordering and packet duplication happening in ways which are not consistent with TCP acceleration at all. It's much more likely that it's some kind of configuration problem elsewhere in the network. From eyeballing the trace, almost half the payload segments there are duplicates, while a much smaller proportion are retransmits. (You can tell the difference e.g. using IP ids or by TCP timestamp TSvals / TSecrs). ~~~ dang We changed the title back to what the article says. The submitted title was "Windows 10 updates via UDP bypassing QoS restrictions". Submitters: the HN guidelines ask you please not to rewrite titles except when they are misleading or linkbait. It seems like in this case the rewrite made it more misleading. If anyone suggests a better title, we can change it again. ~~~ RachelF Apologies for that, I was trying to summarize the linked article in the title, not to mislead. ------ voltagex_ PCAP is at [https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum- replies.cfm?t=2530363&...](https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum- replies.cfm?t=2530363&p=3#r52). It's not UDP. I'll have to see whether this is what causes my 100 megabit downlink to behave as if it's capped at 30 megabits sometimes. The router can barely keep up as it is. ~~~ riskable I've had a problem similar to this with my 150 megabit downlink (sigh, wish I had that much upload). The thing to remember when troubleshooting these sorts of problems is this: Not all iptables rules are created equal. State tracking has _significantly_ more overhead than other types of rules/filtering/shaping (even though state tracking is required for certain types of shaping). You may or may not have already done this but if not try this: iptables -t raw -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 443 -j NOTRACK iptables -t raw -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j NOTRACK (replace eth0 with your Internet interface) State tracking on port 443 and 80 is mostly useless and it's where you're likely to see the majority of your (high bandwidth) traffic. Setting NOTRACK on those ports can make a HUGE difference while still enabling your squirrel- powered router (let me guess: It requires no active cooling? haha) to shape traffic like "teh big boys." ~~~ voltagex_ For years and years I was on ~8 megabit ADSL. I thought 100 megabit fibre would solve all my problems but it just moves my problems into a different class. Thanks for that info. As soon as I can work out why the default congestion control / single connection speed on FreeBSD 10 is so bad, I'll be running that as a router. ------ NeutronBoy I've actually seem the same thing recently - updates will soak up all available bandwidth, to the point where web browsing is basically impossible. ~~~ xufi For clarification, Is it soaking up bandwith because its doing the (I forget the term) where it uses your connecion for other Windows 10 users while they update? ~~~ colanderman "Peer-to-peer transfer" is the term. You mean this hellspawn? [https://www.akamai.com/us/en/solutions/products/media- delive...](https://www.akamai.com/us/en/solutions/products/media- delivery/netsession-interface-faq.jsp) I have seen my wife's Windows 10 computer upload crap from time to time and I suspected but could not confirm that it is this. How is this even possible, given that we're behind a NAT? TCP simultaneous open, I suppose? I've not yet been able to figure out how to block these shenanigans. I _really_ don't appreciate MS/Akamai profiting off of my (rather limited) upload bandwidth. ~~~ xufi Ah yes thats the term, I believe (not for downloading) but another MS app Skype uses the same thing when youre talking to someone on a lower bandwith/ADSL connection. I believe it uses the same TCP mechanism of some sort which I havent looked in to. ~~~ jodrellblank SuperNodes, which Skype used up until Microsoft bought them out (in May 2011) and stopped doing that (in April 2012)? [http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/05/skype- replaces-p2p-s...](http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/05/skype- replaces-p2p-supernodes-with-linux-boxes-hosted-by-microsoft/) ~~~ xufi Oh I see. I figured they still used them. Skypes Ui sure has suffered sadly. ~~~ riskable It's not just the UI that suffered. The latency and performance of Skype calls dropped significantly after they switched from P2P to Microsoft Notification Protocol 24 (aka MSN Messenger Protocol)... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Notification_Protoco...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Notification_Protocol) They also introduced serious security problems when they made that change... So instead of Skype messages going from one client directly to another they go through Microsoft's servers (where they are stored and intercepted by TLAs) _unencrypted_. They also introduced a new "feature" whereby their systems read everything you write: [http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Skype-with- care-M...](http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Skype-with-care- Microsoft-is-reading-everything-you-write-1862870.html) ------ 0XAFFE It's interesting how on the forum this is totaly not about Windows 10, but more about Akamai and here all people are bashing on Windows. ~~~ chopsywa Sadly my findings are that it is the new Microsoft update protocol and Akamai in combination. ------ thomas-b I've seen on multiple win10 laptops where it just get all download bandwidth (no noticeable upload) to a point where websites won't open and skype looses connection. That's on a 5Mb line. I do see many connections opened by a single process on Microsoft IPs mentioned. I believe it was really only update related but I saw it happen when actually no updates were available. I just ended up limiting the corresponding process bandwidth whenever it gets annoying. One into the other, I'm mainly just very surprised this kind of thing can happen. Except that I'm fairly happy with win10 though as opposed to the usual MS bashing we can hear. One thing into ------ mcguire A key part: " _It was the same range of source addresses and this was with Windows server and then Office updates. What seems to be happening is that instead of the sending server reducing its window size when packets are dropped, it just keeps re-sending large windows, which are obviously being dropped at my end. The queue algorithm has no idea of this and it will be letting packets through at a rate it thinks is correct, so the flow continues even though much of the traffic is dropped. However as the traffic keeps coming, the link is totally saturated._ " Translation: someone broke TCP flow control. ------ wmf Windows has a feature to perform _low_ priority downloads of updates called Background Intelligent Transfer Service: [https://technet.microsoft.com/en- us/library/cc776905(v=ws.10...](https://technet.microsoft.com/en- us/library/cc776905$v=ws.10$.aspx) There's also the Windows Update Delivery Optimization P2P feature: [http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/windows- update...](http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/windows-update- delivery-optimization-faq) ~~~ colanderman The problem with BITS is that it assumes that the computer it's on is the only computer on the network. (In a switched network, how could it know otherwise?) So it will start bulk downloads while other users are trying to use the network interactively, with predictable consequences. I basically just configure my network as if everything connected to it – both clients and the ISP – are bad actors trying to DoS me (albeit, a DoS regulated by TCP Vegas). Between my ISP's bufferbloat and these shenanigans from MS/Akamai, it's not a bad approximation. ~~~ wmf IIRC BITS used Vegas-like (or these days we'd say uTP-like) heuristics to detect cross traffic and back off, but who knows what the latest version is doing. ------ noonespecial This isn't a new problem for us VOIP'ers. Bad actors have been breaking TCP for a while. We solved by putting a great big server/router up at a datacenter with a fat link. Any connection that misbehaves by ignoring TCP drops or flooding with UDP for more than a few seconds gets rerouted through that server. (New connections are made through this route.) It has _outbound_ rate limiting down the pipe to the local networks. Keeps the local networks happy and fast. Isn't as expensive as routing everything through a datacenter because only misbehaving IP's get rerouted. Had the added side benefit that I could "protect" offices from the "involuntary" win10 upgrade. ------ Sami_Lehtinen New phenomenon? I think it was first VOIP apps I ever used with Windows 3.11 which already had some protocol level tricks to work around TCP limitations. Like using ICMP and or UDP traffic. Hardly news. I've been thinking this since reading about TCP for the very first time. I've even published a concept of "Bandwidth Hog", which is transfer protocol designed to optimize your transport. By stealing others bandwidth, aka not sharing it fairly. [http://www.sami-lehtinen.net/blog/bandwidth-hog-quick- concep...](http://www.sami-lehtinen.net/blog/bandwidth-hog-quick-concept- draft) ~~~ colanderman It's "new" in that it's been deployed by the most widespread desktop OS, so networks _without_ compromised machines or bad actors have to deal with it now. ------ KaiserPro Ah, this looks like using multiple TCP streams to counter latency based throughput. Its not really new, its used in VFX to shuttle large amounts of data about. ------ uudecode Is it not OK to criticize Microsoft on HN? This title was changed to remove any mention of Windows. Just curious. ~~~ e40 I think it's that they (HN mods) like to use the original title. ~~~ MertsA Especially when the submitted title contains relevant context for the article. Can't be having that. ~~~ mikeash The submitted title was just plain wrong. ~~~ MertsA After looking at what the original title was, I agree. In this case it needed to be changed but just dropping the part about UDP would have been fine. In most cases though it honestly seems like when HN titles are changed it's changed for the worst. It looks like I'm not the only one who feels that way either. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4102013](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4102013) ~~~ mikeash Go ahead and fight it in those cases, but this is not at all good example. ------ 0x0 Really, pushing Windows 10 has now become so urgent we can't let TCP slow us down?!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
TOPLAP 15th Anniversary 84 Hour Live Coding Stream - glitcher https://www.youtube.com/eulerroom/live/ ====== glitcher This features graphical and musical artists performing "live coding" sets. This concept is new to me, curious if any HN'ers here have experimented with any live coding techniques or groups?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
EU wants battery autonomy, but first it needs graphite - ajaviaad https://techxplore.com/news/2020-02-eu-battery-autonomy-graphite.html ====== 8jef This is where they want to source it: [http://nouveaumonde.ca/en/](http://nouveaumonde.ca/en/)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
In The Pursuit of Becoming Unlimited - QuantumGuy Hi hackernews, lately I have felt like I am limiting myself too much so I decided to unlimit myself entirely. My blog To Be Unlimited will chronicle my journey to become unlimited http://tobeunlimited.blogspot.com/ any feedback on it is much appreciated. ====== javajosh The first step to being unlimited is to learn how to post links correctly. ~~~ QuantumGuy Yeah sorry about that, still new here.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The Healing Power of Birdsong - tintinnabula https://standpointmag.co.uk/issues/may-june-2020/the-healing-power-of-birdsong/ ====== BrianB I've been watching my neighborhood birds for a while now and they indeed have individual personalities. It's pretty cool to know for example when a neighborhood cat is approaching, how it's approaching (stalking or walking?), and even which cat it is all because the birds communicate it to each other. If you're interested in diving deeper into this bird world, I'd recommend starting with "What the Robin Knows" by Jon Young [https://www.amazon.com/What-Robin-Knows-Secrets- Natural/dp/0...](https://www.amazon.com/What-Robin-Knows-Secrets- Natural/dp/054400230X) Jon still does a lot of programs and workshops and research and it can be a fascinating rabbit hole to dive into. ~~~ zxexz Wow, so cool to see someone reference Jon Young on HN. I was about 12 or so when was gifted a copy (is that an appropriate term for a cassette pack?) of Seeing Through Native Eyes[0], which I devoured. That led me to his book Advanced Bird Language[1], which blew my adolescent mind. I still have both, and a lot of the material has really stuck with me. [0] [http://8shields.org/store/audio-products/seeing-through- nati...](http://8shields.org/store/audio-products/seeing-through-native-eyes- with-jon-young/) [1] [http://8shields.org/advanced-bird-language-with-jon- young/](http://8shields.org/advanced-bird-language-with-jon-young/) ------ sdenton4 Just a small advert... We've just launched a Kaggle competition on birdsong identification this week! [https://www.kaggle.com/c/birdsong- recognition/discussion](https://www.kaggle.com/c/birdsong- recognition/discussion) One of the organizers wrote the BirdNET app... Improvements can help both the app and a lot of passive ecosystem monitoring projects. It's also a great excuse to listen to birdsong! ------ mongol I am interested in bird watching as a hobby. An "unfortunate" but intrinsic aspect of it is that since bird species varies between continents, some knowledge is less applicable. When I bought my first book about bird songs in English I did not realize that, it mostly mentioned American species that are not present in Europe. I did not learn much applicable knowledge from it. Another example, in the /r/birding subreddit people are mainly discussing about American birds. Obviously, this is natural and nothing to really complain about. But it often requires to "read between the lines" to understand the location context in a discussion, especially when you are new. ~~~ sdenton4 The Sound Approach to Birding is a bit more European. (it was my first book on bird song, though I live in the US... So I feel your pain.) It has a lot of good general knowledge, and then Merlin and Xeno Canto can help from there. ------ anitil Highly recommend the Sound Escapes podcast by birdnote. It takes you to multiple locations where you can (among other sounds) listen to the bird calls. [https://www.birdnote.org/blog/2019/07/sound- escapes](https://www.birdnote.org/blog/2019/07/sound-escapes) ~~~ pwdisswordfish2 Gordon Hempton is legendary. I will always remember him for attaching his mics to a mannequin head. ------ squatchd I've found the combination of birdNET and Merlin out of the Cornell Ornithology lab to be pretty awesome for learning about the local birds on the fly. Pretty awesome work coming out of that group. ~~~ jrace birdNET and Merlin are some of the most used apps on my phone, amazing how well the birdNET would identify a bird even with background traffic noise. If it wasn't for that app I would have never realized I was on an actual snipe hunt. [https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Wilsons_Snipe/overview](https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Wilsons_Snipe/overview) The 'winnowing' sound they make was driving us nuts trying to identify the bird. ------ every The mockingbirds[0] are starting to show up in numbers. Quite the repertoire... [0][https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Northern_Mockingbird/ove...](https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Northern_Mockingbird/overview) ~~~ grasshopperpurp In the morning and early evening, there's a window where it seems like all the mockingbirds are singing from the various canopies, and it creates such delicate walls of sound. With the transitioning light, it's about as good as it gets. Once the blue jays start squawking, you know the chorus is nearing its end. ------ lerie1982 tldr; it's an article about William Henry Hudson ~~~ dorkwood Who is that?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
GNUstep Developers Consider Forking the Project, Moving Away from FSF - protomyth http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=GNUstep-Possible-Fork ====== lightlyused No link to GNUstep in the article. That says a lot.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Que: A fast, concurrent job queue for Ruby and PostgreSQL - chanks https://github.com/chanks/que ====== grosskur Nice! I really like postgres-based queues. Another one is [https://github.com/ryandotsmith/queue_classic](https://github.com/ryandotsmith/queue_classic) It uses LISTEN/NOTIFY. It might be interesting to compare it to que in the README. ------ chanks I'm really interested in suggestions or comments about Que - I'm trying to make it as durable as possible while retaining its speed. I'm also looking for a steady job using Ruby, if anyone is hiring in Seattle. My email's in my profile. Thanks!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Best Home Wireless Routers for Spring 2015 - entrode http://www.domolith.com/2015/02/best-home-wireless-routers-for-spring-2015/ ====== entrode I know new routers like the D-Link AC5300 DIR-895L/R are forthcoming with faster processors and more streams, but I wanted to take a look at the home wireless router market as it stands today and size up what I think are the best routers for specific uses with an eye towards firmware capabilities and ability to track network usage by-device over time. Nearly all vendors fail on this, but TP-LINK provides it, ASUS comes close, and ASUS with DD-WRT and YAMon provides it really well for the R7000. I'm interested to see if there are any devices I'm missing. A nice MIMO 802.11ac device with firmware capability similar to the Pepwave Surf SOHO would be great.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Teen: I Am Not the Boston Marathon Bomber - MarlonPro http://news.yahoo.com/teen-am-not-boston-marathon-bomber-175755674--abc-news-topstories.html ====== blahedo FFS, ABC: "Barhoun's younger brother, who declined to be identified..." Seriously? First of all, the kid is under 18, so you shouldn't be identifying him anyway without his parents' permission, but second, you _just identified him_. ~~~ potatolicious This is intentional and common in deliberately shoddy journalism. They're violating every fiber of journalistic ethics without _technically_ running afoul of it. ------ tjbiddle This is a classic example of why this type of information should just be forwarded to the authorities. Last thing we need is a mob mentality going after someone who may turn up to be innocent; it's happened before, and it can happen again. ~~~ denzil_correa Surprise! This type of information IS indeed handed over to the authorities - [http://www.reddit.com/r/findbostonbombers/comments/1ck5hl/me...](http://www.reddit.com/r/findbostonbombers/comments/1ck5hl/media_outlets_please_stop_making_the_images_of/) ~~~ jmmcd "just" ------ clicks So, to be clear, the teen Salah Barhoun was the guy in the blue tracksuit who some 4chan'ers thought was the bomber. Also called out here: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5562975> Here's the NYPost cover where he was featured: [http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk- production/images/28618/large/o-N...](http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk- production/images/28618/large/o-NEW-YORK-POST-570.jpg?1366309915) And this is why vigilante justice sucks. I'm just glad that some nutcase in real life didn't go off on him and he went to the police himself to clear his name before anything bad happened to him. ~~~ potatolicious Unfortunately being doxxed by Reddit (funny how Reddit is known for that these days) isn't a requirement for having some nutcases go off on you: [http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/bx_idiots_beat_up_a...](http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/bx_idiots_beat_up_arab_in_revenge_76qKozmZwDUpLUbacqqP3O) Ironically NY Post was one of the "news" sources driving up the hysteria and publishing these photos. ~~~ ep103 Not ironically, the NY Post is just as bad as the Daily Mail. On the day of the bombing, they were reporting that the bomber had already been arrested. The day after the bombing, they had a picture on their cover of a backpack that was supposedly the bomb... except it wasn't. Today, they had a picture of two middle eastern looking people, who had nothing to do with the bombing. This is par the course for the NY Post. My favorite though, is when I used to do political work, the NY Post would show up to large events, set up a quick photoshoot with paid actors, then leave, and whatever they staged a picture of would be the next day's front page. Fuck the post. ~~~ pkfrank Is there no penalty available for flagrantly inaccurate and damaging reporting? ~~~ rahoulb Well, in the UK you can complain to the Press Complaints Commission. Headed by the editor of the Daily Mail ------ jrwoodruff Classic News Corp. material - lazy and sensationalist. Unless the people who are targeted start filing libel suits and claiming damages in these cases, the organizations that profit from this jump-to-conclusions journalism crap will keep just on doing it. Listen to NPR, read the New York Times, AP Wire. Stay the hell away from TV and all News Corp. publications. ------ ignostic There is a lot of hate here for the "vigilantes" who singled him out. In no way do I approve of the subreddit devoted to finding these people, but I think many of the comments here blow what happened out of proportion. No one arrested him, fired him, threatened him, or tried to hurt him. Even to a kid, I can't imagine this impacting your life too much. If he were traumatized, he'd not be allowing everyone to use his name. Again, I don't approve of this kind of speculation, but they always labeled their work as speculation and discouraged people from acting on it. I think we might just be over-reacting. ~~~ potatolicious > _"No one arrested him, fired him, threatened him, or tried to hurt him."_ Citation needed... _Far_ tamer acts have elicited all of the above when put in front of the Internet Hate Machine (which now includes Reddit). Remember Adria Richards? Yeah, she didn't kill anyone and she _still_ got direct threats of being raped and killed. The individual here hasn't been arrested or fired, but you can bet your ass he has been threatened and intimidated in ways neither of us can even imagine. The level of cruelty internet strangers have repeatedly demonstrated to others can best be described as "unquantifiably high". > _"Again, I don't approve of this kind of speculation, but they always > labeled their work as speculation and discouraged people from acting on > it."_ This is a cop-out, and has about as much legitimacy as those "no copyright infringement intended" descriptions under pirated YouTube videos. ------ pvaldes STOP doing this!!!. This is irresponsible at many levels. A really huge mistake Everybody knows currently that this guy is not suspitious at all and police will be glued to him 25 hours a day in the next weeks, but... what if the true bombers had seeing the photos of the guy with the big red circle on 4chan before his declaration? What a golden opportunity for the ba[dg] guys could be... They only need to reach this boy, with name graciously provided by the stupid press, before the police gets him. Two minutes in facebook and they have the direction. Later, "the main suspect commits suicide" at home, "solved" crime and jail avoided... what's the next target? Please STOP putting people inside a circle... just now! Don't publish the real name of a "suspect" with big uppercase letters! This should be strictly forbiden. Just give a copy of the photos to the police, is as simple as that. ------ jp_sc And _that_ is what it really happens "when you give 4chan images of the Boston Marathon". ~~~ GHFigs Observe that 4chan users did not set up a whole board devoted to the topic and a spreadsheet of suspects. Nor, for that matter, do alleged journalists frequently use 4chan as a primary source. ------ danielweber Mob justice was wrong? Hoocoodaknown?? This is such a freaking waste of time. He had to go clear his name, and the cops had to listen to him. ~~~ mcantelon Where's the "mob justice" part? Seems more like crowdsourced investigation. The crowd came up with a theory, that theory was sent to the authorities, and the suspect went to the police preemptively. ~~~ justin66 > Where's the "mob justice" part? Seems more like crowdsourced investigation. In this case, same thing. > The crowd came up with a theory, that theory was sent to the authorities, > and the suspect went to the police preemptively. And you really have no idea why this process might have caused Salah Barhoun to experience genuine fear for his safety and the safety of his family? Not to mention all the anxiety any normal, thinking person experiences when having to deal unexpectedly with both the national media and the police? ~~~ mcantelon >In this case, same thing. When people use the term "mob justice" they are usually referring to something less benign than the public collaborating online to provide the FBI with the tips they're asked the public for. >And you really have no idea why this process might have caused Salah Barhoun to experience genuine fear for his safety and the safety of his family? Anyone finding themselves in the spotlight unexpectedly is going to be stressed. He's doing the right thing by going to the authorities. His name will then likely be quickly cleared. ~~~ justin66 > When people use the term "mob justice" they are usually referring to > something less benign than the public collaborating online to provide the > FBI with the tips they're asked the public for. We're using the term advisedly. It's the interpretation of events that there seems to be some disagreement about. > Anyone finding themselves in the spotlight unexpectedly is going to be > stressed. He's doing the right thing by going to the authorities. His name > will then likely be quickly cleared. You completely ignored the question, and it's an important one. Do you really, sincerely not understand how being fingered as a suspect in a very public way, in America, in 2013, in a terrorist bombing case, will cause a dark-skinned guy with a foreign name to experience well-founded and reasonable fear for his safety and the safety of his family? I don't know how much further I can unpack this for you. "The subreddit" (whatever the hell that means) engaged in a small - perhaps accidental, in the way a lot of what a mob does is accidental - act of terror in a time of terror. Good job with that. It would be nice if they actually acknowledged it, but I expect they'll soon just move on to putting words over pictures of cats. ------ nokya When I read on the fbi.gov that US.A. Carmen Ortiz is in charge, I am not surprised that the daily routine of these 2 innocent people was already drastically damaged for the upcoming years. ------ jere I was actually wondering yesterday if this would happen. You'd have to be living under a rock for those pictures not to get back to you. And when they did why wouldn't you immediately come forward and say "it wasn't me." [Sorry for being unclear. I knew he came forward. I was saying that that happening was predictable.] ~~~ gee_totes You also have to be living under a rock not to read the second paragraph of the article "Salah Barhoun, 17, said he _went to the police yesterday to clear his name_ after he found himself tagged in pictures online" ~~~ jere Sorry for being unclear. I knew he came forward. I was saying that that happening was predictable. Most people would have done the same. ~~~ gee_totes Ooh, sorry about that :) I was in a snarky mood. Also looking at the rest of this thread, it seems that communication has broken down. ------ lucb1e In the Netherlands you could sue anyone publishing your face without your permission. There are exemptions for media in some cases, but suspects like here still have to get at least a black bar so that they're not easily recognizable. Doesn't America have similar laws? ~~~ gamegoblin Only some states require consent of the person in the photo. ------ zalew Jpeg investigation 5 minutes after the event turns out not to give legitimate results, shocker. ------ pshin45 Twitter and FB are amazing tools for spreading ideas (Arab Spring, Occupy Wall Street, Rebecca Black's "Friday", etc.) but they have also resulted in a shameful lack of fact-checking and an inexcusable free-fall in journalistic reporting standards that seems to have no end in sight. What will it take to bring reporting standards back up to anywhere near their pre-social media levels? For example, why can't the FCC start handing out massive fines ($x million) to news agencies that report false or inaccurate information? Of course that's not scalable but hopefully it could act as a deterrent and make people think twice before they post something. If the FCC can fine CBS $550,000 for allowing Janet Jackson's nipple to be exposed on national TV, you'd think they could do the same when major news companies' rushed reporting ends up ruining people's lives. People's lives are being destroyed time and again by well-intentioned but misguided individuals and companies disseminating false information. Is there really nothing that can be done? ~~~ protomyth Nope, nothing. Well, you can win sometimes, but it has to be National Enquirer-level blatant. "New York Times Co. v. Sullivan" is the basis for modern defamation cases and it is heavily weighted to the press. The second part is that the FCC does not have "truth" in its charter, but it does have decency legislation. Although a recent ABC case might make it impossible for the FCC to repeat the CBS Superbowl fine. ------ DigitalSea This is exactly the kind of scenario I said would happen in previous HN comment in another submission (as did many others). Reddit and 4Chan speculate and distribute images of innocent people, the media would eventually pick them up and people would be false-fully accused of being the bomber. It's the Ryan Lanza situation all over again. If you have suspicions, privately send your concerns and imagery to the authorities and let them handle things, don't post them onto Tumblr or Reddit without any proof, you could be ruining the lives of innocent people. Put yourself in this situation. Your picture is being plastered all over the news and Facebook, you are being called a suspect in a brutal bombing case, your family see your image and immediately assume the worse, your employer sees the photo and you lose your job and you weren't even involved. The media doing what they seem to do best in this day and age: report now, fact check later. ------ protomyth So, no major news network or newspaper did itself any favors. NBC, Fox, CNN, MSNBC, NYT, Post, etc. all printed or aired bogus stories and the American public is confused and ill informed. CNN earned a spot on the Daily Show. I don't know the answer other than some network could make a decent business out of only airing confirmed facts and actually giving us a view of the scene without the pundits. Actually interview people there and skip the "inside sources". Who am I kidding, its all about what KK feels about the event. ------ jagermo This is so important. Online research can do a lot of good, but it is so easy to get carried away. I'm impressed by what reddit and 4chan and all the others found, but taking action is the job of cops. ------ auctiontheory It reminds me of Harold and Kumar: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDz74_ANojg> ------ rdl Sunil Tripathi, however, may be one of the Boston Marathon Bombers. Internet vigilantism applied to high profile "offline" crimes is intriguing. ------ beedogs I honestly think it's time to take Rupert Murdoch's news empire from him, and destroy it. The world is a shittier place with him and his BS propaganda outlets in it.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Inside V8 - A Javascript Virtual Machine - nreece http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Going+Deep/Expert-to-Expert-Erik-Meijer-and-Lars-Bak-Inside-V8-A-Javascript-Virtual-Machine/ ====== jamie I'm a little confused by how Google plans to go back and add further optimization steps. From what I gathered from the video, they skip any IR step, and compile the javascript source straight to machine code. Lars Bak said a couple of times that the amount of code they generate was enormous. If they skip building an IR, does that mean they intend to optimize the javascript representation itself to get performance? I'm a novice here, so I'm confused about where would they do things like unrolling loops and inlining methods if not against the IR? ~~~ vidarh I haven't watched the video yet, but it's not _that_ hard to do loop unrolling and inlining directly on the generated machine code. It's tricky (but by no means impossible) to do this on arbitrary machine code, but in this case they control the code generator, so they can make guarantees about the structure, and if necessary they can keep track of information to make optimizing the machine code directly easier.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Audio interview: Thomas Fuchs on Scripty2 and the future of Prototype - netherland http://thechangelog.com/post/1408568115/episode-0-3-9-scripty2-zepto-js-vapor-js-and-more-with-t ====== pavel_lishin I really wish we'd solve the problem of transcribing spoken words. There are many things I'd like to listen to, but I can't listen and do anything else at the same time, except walk or drive, but I can scan text pretty quickly. :/ ------ netherland ~ 28:00 "bored developers create testing frameworks and templating languages"	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
10 Story-Driven Websites that will blow your mind - peachananr http://www.onextrapixel.com/2013/04/24/10-story-driven-websites-that-will-blow-your-mind/ ====== brilliantday Wow! These are bookmarked worthy websites. Cool especially the Paranorman and My Life in 20 Years. :) ~~~ peachananr Thanks! Glad you liked it. :) ~~~ brilliantday you're welcome. :)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Planimeter - gballan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planimeter ====== dTal It is not intuitive to me why this works, which is very exciting because it'll be fun when I "get it". Is there somewhere online that explains it in an intuitive way? ~~~ gballan I don't get it either. Tell you what -- I'll put something together and post to HN. (Will take a couple of weeks or so.) ~~~ theoh It's similar in principle to the algorithm described here: [http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/area-irregular- polygons.h...](http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/area-irregular- polygons.html) Prytz (hatchet) planimeters are more tricky and approximate in the way they work. ------ acomjean I used one as a civil engineer to estimate quantities of cut and fill from plans. They are quite amazing tools.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The Internet sky really is falling - urlwolf http://www.networkworld.com/cgi-bin/mailto/x.cgi?pagetosend=/export/home/httpd/htdocs/columnists/2009/050609-johnson.html&pagename=/columnists/2009/050609-johnson.html&pageurl=http://www.networkworld.com/columnists/2009/050609-johnson.html&site=print ====== slavox I found this article, rather vague.. How is it that computer networks will override moore's law? Either networking is inherently too costly on CPU/Hardware Or someone miscalculated that with a rise in computer power the networking infrastructure also rises in power.. Also using Youtube as an example for "clogged tubes" is silly, Youtube is clogging their own tubes (Ours too but only because we're not keeping up in rolling out new networks) Think of delivery via means like Bittorrent (no that doesn't instantly mean piracy) But rather as a protocol for distribution and even streaming media..More efficent so it makes the youtube costs much smaller and the overall load more distributed. There is a maximum amount of traffic that could flow on the internet currently, but theoretically we will one day have a limit to our consumption above 1080p we might only ever need 2k and so that will be video, text is too small to worry about and music will only change in quality to a few gigs per album, So what more could we transfer? ~~~ jodrellblank Ah, another "we must be at the end of the future now" post. _So what more could we transfer?_ Multiple video streams for a start, for enhanced 3D or choose-your-own- viewpoint or choose-your-own-ending. ~~~ slavox I agree, But how many Video streams would we need to stream at once for it to overrun moore's law is what i don't get, Sure it's a heck of a big job, but it's not a falling sky as such. 3D enhanced video sounds great! but all these technologies really won't be loading more than 3-6 streams of data at once, which we can keep up with easily. It's just that choking bandwith doesn't cause any loss of customers until the competition offers better..at least that's how it is here (NZ) But i get it, there are huge files, But i still think we can keep up. ~~~ jodrellblank It's only routing tables that they claimed are growing at a rate outstripping Moore's Law, as I read it. ------ danh If this was true, we should be seeing bandwidth becoming more expensive. At least here in Sweden, the opposite seems to be true: prices seem to continue to fall. And for the idea that we will someday hit a "capacity ceiling" to be true, price elasticity for bandwidth (and IP numbers) must be very, very low. I don't know of any evidence that we are ready to pay humongous amounts for tomorrows 3D, 2160p, video streams. ~~~ chaosmachine In North America, bandwidth is becoming more expensive in the form of overage charges for exceeding your bandwidth cap. My ISP charges a ridiculous $2 per GB for anything past 90GB. ~~~ slavox How much is your monthly charge though? I mentioned mine just above.. ~~~ chaosmachine It's about $70 for 10mbit down, 1mbit up. They also throttle bittorrent to about 10% of that. ------ chaosmachine Does anyone have more info on YouTube "discontinuing video delivery to certain geographies due to lack of access capacity"? From what I understand this was more of a "we can't monetize 3rd world traffic" problem. ~~~ josefresco You're right, he pulled that into the article to support his very weak argument. ~~~ klon She ------ pert I don't agree with the "lack of access capacity" being a blocker for Internet growth/development. This problem can be solved easily by more investment from the cable/Telecom companies. ~~~ jmtame Really? As if that hasn't _already_ happened? <http://www.newnetworks.com/tellthetruthverizon.htm> ~~~ pert Some ISPs have done very well in staying ahead of the demand curve. Others, such as BT and Virgin Media here in the UK, are not investing in areas of their network where demand has _already_ outstripped supply. ------ quoderat I remember seeing this same alarmism in 1995. And 1997. And 1999. And...and...and. Tired of it. ------ jodrellblank Oh please don't call the successor technology "LISP". ~~~ CodeMage Maybe they should call it "ARC" instead ;) ------ theblackbox I often wonder if the Beeb could implement a location aware torrent based streaming app for iPlayer... I think they could drastically cut their costs if they just let their data exist on license payers personal networks, and it would make a hell of an experiment on optimising data flow. ~~~ slavox Torrent streaming is very efficient for the server costs, However you have to stop trying to lock everything down somewhere because though it's a nice thought it only annoys the legit users. In the end there is no way to stop someone just "dubbing" the video manually if there are a million software blocks in place, If you can see it you can steal it, Is the way media goes. All the anti-piracy protections hurt more consumers who pay than the pirates who won't be worried by it once they have it. However more to the point, Torrenting would be a wonderful alternative especially if it was made aware to the users that by leaving it streaming they'd HELP the BBC, It'd make for great content distribution. <http://trial.p2p-next.org/moreinfo/moreinfo.html> ~~~ theblackbox thanks for the link, it seems interesting! One of the problems with this solution is that the content itself must become "location aware" as it wouldn't be fair to stream BBC content to the rest of the world when it's only being paid for by UK license payers. I see this as one of the founding principals of BBC iPlayer:- they have had the technology and the content to distribute BBC media worldwide for a good few years, but to do so fairly and maintain the illusion of order (because as you say "If you can see it you can steal it") the BBC have needed a rather robust piece of software to keep an eye on things. I hope they reach a point where they will turn off the "7 day listings" for license payers and have all the content available for download and sharing via an "in house" iPlayer Torrent.... guess it's not beyond the realms of possibility... and just think, we could finally have Later with Jools Holland on tap! That alone is enough to make it a worthwhile endeavour, when you factor in David Attenborough.... it's almost utopian ;) ------ johnbender 'cable companies are implementing "usage caps" to keep users from, er, consuming "too much" bandwidth' used as proof that we're running out of capacity... ------ Ardit20 Perhaps the broadband providers are 'capping bandwidth' because the research these guys did seems to give them some added legitimacy to do so?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Rust needs to run, and be easy to use, on every platform - dsr12 https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/rust-needs-to-run-and-be-easy-to-use-on-every-platform/6935 ====== the_grue I'm a big fan of Rust, used it for several projects already, loved it. Too bad much of the systems programming is currently tied to C/C++ infrastructure. There is only so far you can get with FFI. Most likely not far enough to write a Linux kernel driver and many other things, unfortunately. Here's hoping the situation changes now that Rust is attracting so much attention. ~~~ ethelward > Most likely not far enough to write a Linux kernel driver Well... [https://github.com/saschagrunert/kmod](https://github.com/saschagrunert/kmod) ~~~ the_grue Heh, but it doesn't do anything, does it? Because to do anything, it needs to interoperate with native datastructures and functions. There you go... ------ leshow If not for Rust, I never would have believed systems programming would be accessible to me, at least not in any time frame I was comfortable investing. ------ nrclark For the Rustaceans out there, are there any plans to start getting Rust libraries packaged for Linux distros? Cargo is an amazing build system. But the last time I used it (which was maybe a year ago), I was struck by how tough it would be to use it for compiling a Debian package. At the time, it seemed like a big roadblock against wider Rust adoption. ~~~ steveklabnik We've long worked with distros, each of them has different policies, and so does things differently. For example, [https://crates.io/crates/debcargo](https://crates.io/crates/debcargo) is a tool created by Debian for this purpose. [https://pagure.io/fedora- rust/rust2rpm](https://pagure.io/fedora-rust/rust2rpm) is Fedora's. ------ SloopJon The last time I looked at Rust platforms, I was kind of surprised that AIX wasn't on the list at all. It looks like the Solaris port got a nudge from Oracle, so I'm guessing that the most likely path to AIX support is a similar nudge from IBM. ~~~ steveklabnik Does LLVM have an AIX backend? That'd be the major blocker. IBM just published this today: [https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os- dev...](https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-developers- know-rust/index.html?ca=drs-) No idea what that means in general, but it's gotta be good in some sense! ------ iTokio I thought that without runtime rust would be easy to compile to bare webassembly (no emscripten). But you lose stdout, backtraces. lto doesn’t seem to be working. Which is okay except that there is no easy way to override/replace what’s missing without hacks. So wasm is an ideal exotic enough target to test if rust is truly portable and if libstd design isn’t too coupled with Linux/Windows/macOS. ~~~ steveklabnik Wasm is an intense focus of this year. There's a _ton_ of activity going on. We'll get there! I agree with you 100%, by the way. That's why I think wasm is important for Rust, even disregarding feelings about it as a specific technology. It's like a very small embedded platform. ------ dsincl12 ... and strings need to be unified and fixed fast. Anything involving string manipulation is pure pain and is wasting a ton of time at the moment. ~~~ weirdwitch No thanks. Rust made the right call by distinguishing between owned (String) and borrowed (str) strings. Even C++ is moving in that direction now, by finally adding string_views ([https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/string/basic_string_view](https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/string/basic_string_view)) ~~~ ComputerGuru That's not the problem. There absolutely should be two different types (and I don't even care that the names are so poor). But half the rust APIs take one type and the other take another (even when the string isn't manipulated or stored in any way, shape, or form). Some interfaces are only implemented for string and others only for &str. Deciding betweene two distinct types &str and &string (not mut &string) for your function's interface is nonsense. It makes no sense to have to _decide_ between which two views of a string that you can read-but-not-manipulate you want to use, and it makes zero sense that they can't unify the types with some simple compiler magic. A constant reference to a string should automatically decompose into a view of that string and that should be that. [edit: as in that view shouldn't be a separate type] Additionally, that dereferencing a string returns a pointer... that makes no sense. That's the kind of nonsense we ran away from in the C++ world. strings are the reason I regret not adopting rust back when as a user of a pre-1.0 language I could have joined in efforts to lobby against this insanity. \--- As a sidenote, string_view is so late in coming to the c++ world that it's not even funny. Having a separate std::string with an "implementation-defined" in- memory representation in a world of c strings (char ) is inane beyond belief. (Yes, nulls in strings would still be a problem. But why do your strings have nulls in the first place? That data should probably be a vector of strings or a [vector\|array] of uint8_t (even if just typedef'd to unsigned char) and C++ strings should have been mandated utf8, contiguous, and null-terminated. You should be able to compose a zero-copy, read-only, non-owned string from a character array and decompose automatically to it. And don't get me started on the fact that C++ doesn't have sprintf because of the obsession with sticking to the overly verbose and way too complicated streaming operators. Developers end up using c strings with sprintf to format text and then copy it back to a std::string just to work around that stupidity. ~~~ weirdwitch Anything implemented for &str is automatically implemented for String, because String implements Deref<Target=str>. Most useful "String" methods are actually &str methods that you get access to through that deref trait. Dereferencing a String doesn't return a raw pointer, I'm not sure where you got that idea. ~~~ ComputerGuru Yes, anything implemented for &str is automatically implemented for String... except some API are stupidly implemented for &string instead. And you can't pattern match strings properly (think some `for in`) without first explicitly converting to &str. Dereferencing a string does not return a raw pointer, that was exaggeration on my behalf. But a string is a container, so string returns.... &str? But string.deref() returns str? Don't get me wrong, I'm fully invested in the language [0], [1], [2], but it's got a lot of warts that could have been avoided by thinking bigger picture. So many APIs are restricted by thinking easy instead of big pre-1.0. Like str being hardcoded into APIs that should have been generic (FromStr vs From<&str>, .parse() vs .into()), shipping 1.0 without async/await, and the whole mess with strings. 0: [https://github.com/rust- lang/rust/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is...](https://github.com/rust- lang/rust/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+author%3Amqudsi) 1: [https://github.com/rust- lang/rfcs/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is...](https://github.com/rust- lang/rfcs/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aopen+author%3Amqudsi+) 2: [https://crates.io/search?q=neosmart](https://crates.io/search?q=neosmart) ~~~ masklinn > But a string is a container In the same way unique_ptr is a container. > so string.deref() returns.... &str? Yes? &str::deref() also returns &str, Vec::deref() returns &[], Box<T>::deref() returns &T. That's literally how Deref is defined, Deref<Target=T>::deref() returns &T. String returns str. > (FromStr vs From<&str>, .parse() vs .into()) These are not equivalent. From/Into are non-failing conversions, FromStr can fail. What you're looking for is TryFrom/TryInto which are still not done 2 years into the RFC: [https://github.com/sfackler/rfcs/blob/try- from/text/0000-try...](https://github.com/sfackler/rfcs/blob/try- from/text/0000-try-from.md) ~~~ ComputerGuru > String returns str. Typed that out too fast, yes, that's my problem. * String is one thing but String.deref() is another. But * is the dereference operator. Operator overloading ftw ;) > What you're looking for is TryFrom/TryInto which are still not done 2 years > into the RFC: [https://github.com/sfackler/rfcs/blob/try- > from/text/0000-try...](https://github.com/sfackler/rfcs/blob/try- > from/text/0000-try..). Sorry, yes, I actually opened an issue with my suggestions regarding that one with particular focus on the fallible vs infallible nature: [https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/2143](https://github.com/rust- lang/rfcs/issues/2143) ~~~ masklinn > Typed that out too fast, yes, that's my problem. * String is one thing but > String.deref() is another. But * is the dereference operator. They're the same thing, Deref::deref() is just the operation which underlies the dereferencing operator. Either way I don't see what's problematic about a string buffer deref'ing to a string.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
American Hacker: Frank Lucas Waxes Poetic on the Dangers of Outside Investment - pius http://piusuzamere.com/2007/11/14/american-hacker-frank-lucas-waxes-poetic-on-the-dangers-of-outside-investment ====== muhfuhkuh Perhaps bootstrapping and bootlegging go hand in hand. That is, go it alone for as long as you can get away with it.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Just work hard - antigua http://thehundreds.com/blog/2011/07/12/just-work-hard-its-not-hard-work/ ====== wdewind As a millennial who actually works his ass off I always feel somewhat compelled to respond to these. Many of my friends who just graduated, especially non-developers, actually want nothing more than to put in hard work and get stuff done. Unfortunately the few jobs that are out there for young people rarely actually involve working hard if it is building towards a career. Sure, you can go off and work your ass of as a waiter, but if you want to go into something that's going to give you a long term career (an internship or intro office job), guess what: you wont be required to work nearly as hard as you can, and it will fucking bore you, and will not require even 20 hours a week of actual work, and in the end you will have pushed some papers around. When you compound this with the fact that the cultural presentation of work that we've gotten for our entire lives is that "it sucks and there's nothing you can do about it" (something I whole-heartedly disagree with), it's no wonder our generation is "lazy." Millennials "lack direction" (at least in work) because they are being told over and over again that they are in the most fun time of their lives, it's all down hill from here, and that there is no chance at a fulfilling work life. Outside of software engineering, there is little "hard work" available that actually builds towards a career. Finally, when you add in the massive moral ambiguity of working at many companies (Philip Morris seems to own half the country), it again becomes very difficult to become motivated about work. I think most of us really do want to work hard and accomplish things but it is really not clear how to do that. ~~~ jjanzer I think the problem here is that not all employers will challenge you. In my mind, the key to finding enjoyment in your work if it's not challenging is to challenge yourself. Unless your job is oppressive to self direction there is nothing stopping you or anyone else from creating or doing something that is positive for the business and challenging for you. As a few examples you could find ways to optimize a system that is inefficient (it doesn't even need to be at the software level), analyze information about your customers, find ways to save money, research ways to get new clients, etc. A side benefit to challenging yourself is that you will find it quite rewarding. I can highly recommend Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's book on "flow" in regards to the phenomenon around it. I think what I'm trying to say is by challenging yourself to be more than what it is your employer expects out of you results in a net win for both you and your company. ~~~ janesvilleseo I agree completely. I work at a company that is small about 25 people, but I engage in this quite often. The company is rather open about everything. I have access to just about everything I need except for the company bank accounts, which I do not want. This provides with a lot access to do a lot of this flow analysis. However the two greatest challenges I still have to overcome are 1)Buy-In from the higher ups to actually use the data/analysis and 2)the time to keep it up. I often feel, for multiple reasons, that I shouldn't be spending time on these endeavors. However, I still seem to always have a 'project'. ~~~ jbl I also agree with the grandparent post. There's always something to do, and something more that could be done to make a project interesting. However, I've often been frustrated by the effort required to get buy-in or recognition from higher-ups. I often found myself _wanting_ to contribute more, but sometimes it seemed like a sisyphean task and not worth the effort (especially once you start balancing compensation and effort). ------ flocial Sometimes it feels like HN is descending into a self-help group for intelligent but certified procrastinators. Does the consumption of such articles and other forms of self-help literature actually inspire you to create and do? Is the discussion of doing a form of action or the prelude to it? Just follow my patented 3-D treatment program for hardcore procrastinators. Decide, declare, and do. Just stay clear of the 3 Es: explanations, extensions and excuses. ~~~ keyle The press always make it look so easy. This post was actually refreshing for the ones of us slaving away hours of their weekends working while others play. So yes this helps. ~~~ relef Hey, wait a minute, you are procrastinating on HN just like the rest of us. Pfffft, _working_ .... ~~~ nochiel Just because an individual is browsing HN does not mean the individual is procrastinating. Please consult a dictionary for an accurate definition of the term. ~~~ cema I think the right term has 4 letters, starts with a _j_ , ends with an _e_ , and has an _ok_ in the middle. ------ hippich At some point in my life I was into NLP (neuro-lingustic programming - just few bits of practical psychology. What I've found - many dreamers do not need to achieve it - they already experienced what they are dreaming about and it is the same as to achieve it for them. It's like watch a trailer for a movie and then get bored in the movie theater.. There is opposite side - people who never dream and find any excuse to not think about possible future.. I believe, right way is in the middle - you have to dream, but only so much to start wanting to get there. And never try to experience the whole thing in a dream. So we should teach kidos to dream, but only enough to ignite the spark, but not to burn it full.. Have no clue how to do this tho... ~~~ jmitcheson Poster may be talking about something similar to this [http://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_keep_your_goals_to_you...](http://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_keep_your_goals_to_yourself.html) "After hitting on a brilliant new life plan, our first instinct is to tell someone, but Derek Sivers says it's better to keep goals secret. He presents research stretching as far back as the 1920s to show why people who talk about their ambitions may be less likely to achieve them." ~~~ hippich From my experience, telling everybody around may work both ways - it may put you in to frame where you HAVE to get to your target, or get enough discussion to experience it and forget about it. But in general, I would say yes - for me it is better to keep things in secret, try to build dependencies on these targets and slowly go through it. ------ chegra I was going to ask HN yesterday how many unfinished app they currently have. This stems from the fact that a developer with a popular app told me currently he has 30+ unfinished apps in his IDE right now. Naturally, I started to feel good about the my 4-5 projects that are unfinished right now. But, the truth is this isn't school. School strives on following through, passing every test, rinse and repeat. In the world of business you only need one. "The point of all this is that it doesn’t matter how many times you fail. It doesn’t matter how many times you almost get it right. No one is going to know or care about your failures, and (n)either should you. All you have to do is learn from them and those around you because All that matters in business is that you get it right once. Then everyone can tell you how lucky you are." - Mark Cuban My point being, so what if their t-shirt company failed, onto the next one. These guys get it. [btw Antigua are you from Antigua in the Caribbean?] ~~~ pnathan I have (1) MS thesis, (1) half-finished prototype for a desktop app, (1) idea of a ios app, (1) idea of a niche MUD. But I also work at a BigCorp, so I'm perhaps atypical. I gave up on having one zillion unfinished programs a year or two ago, when it became apparent nothing was getting meaningfully done. ------ j_baker Work hard, eh? I'm sure the author has spent many years contemplating this unique advice. I've got more fatherly advice while we're at it: save money, try your hardest, don't put your elbows on the table, and close the door, you're air conditioning the entire neighborhood. In all seriousness, did anyone else find this post incredibly condescending? If the new generation has these problems (and I don't think they do anymore than the generations before), it's going to take a lot more than platitudes to solve our problems. ------ drats I just realised my generation is now old enough to be complaining about younger generations. I think the only "generational" debate worth having these days will be the funding of the pensions (promised to people but not always saved for) and medical procedures of the long-lived baby boomers whilst simultaneously dealing with the debt mountains in the West. The debt in the West is approaching, I think may have exceeded in some instances, levels just after the end of WWII. A nice big screen TV doesn't quite have the same quality as defeating fascism. ~~~ troels Yes, it's funny how that makes you feel old, isn't it? Every friggin generation has people who complain about the younger ones lack of direction. I'm not worried though - They too will grow up. ~~~ rgraham Yeah, but the real problem is the younger younger generation. Those kids have no direction. You should see them... ------ johnw Putting in the hard work is a huge part of being successful, no doubt, but this article talks as if it is the ONLY important thing, which I disagree with. You can easily end up working hard on the wrong thing. Writing an app or building a startup that sells something nobody wants for example. There are plenty of people working super hard on already doomed projects because they didn't do enough market research or listen to the right people. You have to work hard AND get a lot of other stuff right as well to have any chance of success. There are plenty of things you can do e.g. automating tasks and outsourcing that don't require extra work but can improve your chances of success. Forgive me if this seems obvious, it just bothered me how the article tried to sell hard work as a silver bullet. I don't think it's that simple. ~~~ billswift It seemed to me that the article wasn't saying it was the only important thing, but that it was the one thing most likely to be _missing_. ------ rglover I think for the HN crowd (generally not a lazy bunch), this may come off as a bit trite. But what the author is saying here is not confounded. I have plenty of friends who fall into this category. They fail to realize that in order to get somewhere, you have to work your ass off. Not to mention, his remark about caring about popularity and fame over having a nice family or caring for others is spot on. There are a lot of intelligent kids ambling about, carelessly making choices that for the most part will not help them to excel or move forward in life. For those that it applies to, this is a good article. ------ mmccomb Hard work alone is often not sufficient. The real solution is to work hard but also to work smart. You need to find a balance between slogging just to get things done and innovating to reduce the slog required in the future. This applies not apply to physical tasks but also to learning. When learning a new skill/subject it's easy to expend a lot of effort reading whole books and articles without taking the leap of getting your hands dirty and applying your learning, but without doing so you can't build the neural connections required to learn. ~~~ SergeyHack Also I would say "hard work" is a bad metaphor. More important parts are: 1) (as you said) "work smart" 2) "enjoy your work" and only then 3) "work hard" ------ diziet I know I am nitpicking, but is there a reason that a huge semi-transparent dark box is in the middle of my screen, informing me that: Notice JavaScript for Mobile Safari is currently turned off. Turn it on in Settings > Safari to view this website I do not quite see any content that requires the use of JavaScript, nor does the noscript handler identify my browser, Firefox 5, correctly. ------ corin_ A truly invaluable life is comprised of the journey Something worth remembering in all aspects of life, not just your career. Without the low-points the highs aren't as noticeable, and, in my experience, some of the hardest things I've experienced are also some of the memories I cherish the most. I wish I could express this view in a less cheesy fashion, but I don't think I can. It's a cliché, but it also often happens to be the truth. ------ coryl I wonder if his observations about "millennials" is actually true. I'm always skeptical when people refer to (especially) younger generations and their flaws, it reminds me of a grumpy old man. "Kids were tougher back in my days! Knew the value of hard work and a dollar! Nowadays they got their MTV and their eyePhones, I'm telling ya this country's falling apart!". However, we live in a different world now. Means of production have opened up to virtually anyone; whether your writing software for computers, producing films, music, t-shirts, etc. It can pretty much all be done with a laptop and your basement. Channels of distribution have also opened up too, so anyone's work can easily be accessed, purchased, and collaborated by anyone else in the world. By these factors alone, we'd expect to see a higher volume of low and high quality work. I don't think its necessarily true the younger generations don't understand hard work, but that we see much more success and failure together. ~~~ gruseom Things have always been degenerating. ------ viandante This is totally missing the point. Everybody I know is working hard and is keen to work hard to achieve things. But today it's not easy. 30 years ago you could work hard and you had good chances to succede. Today you may end up working up to update a power point, or because the boss doesn't use vba and you have to do all things manually. I mean, work hard is a really, really, bad metaphore. It is more about learning good and useful stuff. Which is also kind of diffucult having seen the total absurd that universities have become. ------ simmons Let's not forget that work is a vector quantity: direction is as important (or more important) than magnitude. Also, it's important to understand the relationship between work and productivity. I knew a wannabe programmer who once bragged about how much "hard work" he put into an 8-hour day of manually tweaking data, when he could have written a program to do it in a half hour. ~~~ resnamen Yes. There are also the superstars that just put in 8 hour days but manage to get more meaningful work done than anybody else in the office. ------ michaelochurch I'm going to side-step the generational flame-war and point out a few things. First of all, we don't live in a culture that values hard work. To be fair, maybe it shouldn't. Hard work at something pointless is just wasted effort. But we should toss the hypocrisy by which we claim to value "hard work" when what we really value (as a culture) in people is the resources they already have. The Randists and conservatives and big-business lapdogs dress corporate executives up as "society's most creative and productive individuals" but this isn't true. As a society-- we worship _consumption_ , in the guise of jet-set executives who consume the earth's resources and in that of celebrities who consume others' attention-- and production and hard work really aren't major concerns. Consider the celebrity cult (the hatred and envy included, because the baseless hatred of him is as execrable as the pointless veneration) around a rather bland executive-- neither deserving of much admiration nor dislike-- of a rather boring but important and successful upstart company, a cult existing mainly because he's a billionaire in his 20s. No one know or cares if he worked hard to achieve what he did (I think it's obvious that he did, although he had ridiculously lucky breaks) but because he's rich, he's important. "Millennials" don't see people who are rewarded or even respected for working hard. They see a culture of rent-seekers, lucky bandits, and celebrity that is based on celebrity alone. And if people are going to pin our cultural degeneracy on the Baby Boomers (a reasonable contention) it should not be based on what they _said_ as parents but what they _did_ in the marketplace. ------ omouse The rugged individualism of Americans is amusing sometimes. ------ 4J7z0Fgt63dTZbs Ok, then, working hard in Nike factory would be a good start for many people. Work hard. Seek advice from right people. Outperform coworkers. Three years later you would be the CEO. ...No, I strongly disagree with this. Effort without significance to what you want in long term is waste of everything. If you're not sure what you want, the only effort you should be making is trying to come up with what you want to do. Effort chosen to be, designed to be, MUST be, beneficial to what you ultimately want to achieve is the only effort worth making.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: Any interest in a free course on patents and IP for startups? - scromar The HN community seems to be anti-patent (especially software patents) in general, however knowledge is power. Would you be interested in a free course on patents (and intellectual property in general) tailored specifically for startups, and taught by experienced patent attorneys?<p>Examples of topics that may be covered in such a course include: evaluating the importance of patents to your startup; how to prepare and file a patent application; the advantages of provisional patent applications; how to respond to an accusation of patent infringement; when to talk to an attorney; evaluating the patent landscape in your field; enforcement and licensing of patents and other IP; the basics of copyrights, trademarks, and trade secrets; etc.<p>What other topics would you be interested in covering in such a course? ====== pbhjpbhj You should cover, or at least note, jurisdictional differences and interactions, promotion of patents to national/regional/international phases and such. For example "How will having a US patent help me against a European developer?", "Someone has copied my whole site and is serving it from Papua New Guinea, can I sue them in the US?" As an aside could I make a request that those posting on legal matters or on subjects that are highly regionally variant note which region they're posting from. ~~~ scromar Thanks for the feedback! Those are great ideas. And you're right, I should have noted in the OP that the focus would be on U.S. law. However, patent law and patent issues frequently cross borders today, so international issues should certainly be part of the course. ------ co_pl_te I'd also be very interested in such a course. Law in general is way down there on the list of things that interest me, but I'd rather be readily equipped with such knowledge than blissfully ignorant. Although not specifically related to patent law, I'd really like to know more about choosing the right lawyer/firm for one's startup. There's so little I know that I feel I should know. I think you'll find a lot of HNers that would be interested in such a course. ~~~ scromar Thanks for the feedback. I recognize that for many (all?) startups, legal issues are some of the last things that they want to have to deal with. We would make an effort to keep things interesting, brief, and pertinent. That is one of the reasons why I am looking for feedback like this. ------ Justen I know very little about patents so I can't offer another topic, but I'd be very interested in everything you listed. ------ zeynalov I'm also interested. Do we speak about online courses? You can add my email to your newsletter list, to say when it'll be ready. ------ kevinrpope This would be great - where do we sign up? ------ sidrt +1. I'd very much appreciate this course ------ yeazayer I am interested. ------ midibite I'm interested. ------ forcer Interested	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
A visual brief on icon history through different GUIs and operating systems - jfaucett https://historyoficons.com/ ====== henrikschroder Anecdote, and a billion times more interesting than that overview of Windows icons and a sales pitch: When I was at university a long long time ago, I took a class in user interfaces and usability, and in one lecture the professor showed us an icon set from some system made by the Soviets in the 80s. But it had a completely different iconography than the desktop metaphor with folders and files and trashcans and drives, and it was almost completely impossible to guess what each icon meant. I don't remember many of them, but one of the weirder was an icon of a slingshot as the "kill process" icon. Why? Because the system represented processes as birds on a wire, so you'd use the slingshot to take them down, obviously. I also remember a tractor, I think you used it to restart the system or something. And armed with that you start looking at the iconography of the systems you're used to. A clipboard means I take some text from a buffer and write it out? Really? A pair of scissors means I copy text into a buffer? A sheet of paper is a file? Why? Saving is an icon of a floppy disk, a thing that hasn't been around in 20 years?? I had a friend trying to explain to his kids what it was, and failed. ~~~ wingerlang > A clipboard means I take some text from a buffer and write it out? Really? A > pair of scissors means I copy text into a buffer? A sheet of paper is a > file? Why? I don't think either of these are as bad as you make them out to be. No one thinks in terms of buffers. With a scissor you can cut away stuff (and put it somewhere else) so it makes sense. A sheet of paper is where you write or draw things, so it makes sense. Clipboard, well they are portable and you can make notes on them and then write them down somewhere else. Kinda-ish makes sense. Floppy maybe doesn't make sense unless you know what it is. ~~~ wyattpeak > Floppy maybe doesn't make sense unless you know what it is. Even if you know what a floppy is it's not that obvious without a bit of context. People today seem to analogise floppies to USB keys, devices to move data. The idea that you would save a file directly to portable storage, rather than just to the hard drive, is somewhat alien. ~~~ oneweekwonder > The idea that you would save a file directly to portable storage, rather > than just to the hard drive, is somewhat alien. But it will live with as for a very long time as the save icon. ------ iNerdier Fit those of us who didn't realise to start with: it's an ad in article's clothing. ~~~ SwellJoe Took too long to load, for me. So, I came back to HN. Good to know it's an ad, so I won't mind skipping it. ~~~ Frenchgeek There always something moving and, in the end, it only manage to be an unreadable website at best. I stopped skimming before it gave me a headache. ------ janwillemb Nice article, nice styling, but a nail-scratch-on-schoolboard ending: a marketing pitch. The article shows icon styles through the years, with a hint of progression. And now we've finally arrived at the optimum, the iconset of iconsets: [insert product here] ------ unexistance long load time cannot scroll by space / PageDown -> mouse click & grab... pretty bad for keyboard navigation BUT that means it's touch-oriented nice icons / graphics, as a retro computing & minimalist wallpapers fan, worth the loading time ------ glaberficken Could be an nice timeline if only the content parts that are actually interesting (the text and the icons) didn't jump & slide around driving me insane. ------ richev Painful on the eyes.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Workstation Show and Tell - warvo http://warvo.com/2009/11/workstation-show-and-tell/ ====== chrischen Boy and I thought I was cool with my two differently-sized monitors. ------ warvo Haha yeah i reckon ay. You should post that comment onto my blog rather than on here :) I am more likely to reply.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Upcoming Changes to PNG Support at Twitter - polm23 https://twittercommunity.com/t/upcoming-changes-to-png-image-support/118695 ====== dpedu Semi-relevant thread about tricking this upload/convert system to keep images in PNG: [https://twitter.com/FioraAeterna/status/1077786781133631489](https://twitter.com/FioraAeterna/status/1077786781133631489) ------ whywhywhywhy Tumblr was the last platform that actually respected my creative choices for compression of my work and gave me full control over how my work was presented. Now people are acting as if Tumblr is over and yet again the so called solution is to move your work to Instagram or Twitter. Why is the “solution” always to move to platforms with little to no respect for your actual work there. I’m tired of stressing over how an image/video looks only to upload it to social media and have it covered in a JPEG Vaseline smear. This is before I bring up how far these networks also go in trying to keep me from just dragging content out of their site and to my desktop ~~~ acct1771 Abstract previews that link to full HD content on a platform you control? ~~~ whywhywhywhy This is a very sensible suggestion but I have tried this before with nice gif previews linking to Vimeo and although the gif gets good engagement almost no one clicks though In reality the first impression is all you ever get on social media. ------ thebostik This announcement makes sense to me, having done something similar before personally (1). The difference between a screenshot of a photo saved as a PNG and a JPG is huge, usually over 1MB, and I'm sure Twitter gets plenty of these. Publishing their thresholds for the JPG vs PNG size comparison instead of referring to it just an internal metric would clear up some disconnect. Plus, I'd love to improve the static values I chose if there is better data available. I doubt the people working on this project wanted to change any PNG unless it's clear cut but the line has to go somewhere. These will be better handled by JPG. Numbers about avg file size would be awesome too, how much data will this save in a typical user session? 1 - [https://engineeringblog.yelp.com/2017/06/making-photos- small...](https://engineeringblog.yelp.com/2017/06/making-photos-smaller.html) (Section: Large PNG Detection) ~~~ jchw The truth is, they already do convert almost every screenshot to JPEG. The only criteria I'm aware of that Twitter ever used to keep something as PNG was if it had any pixels that were not fully opaque. ------ bicubic Can we talk about the awful video compression on Twitter and how the only workaround to Twitter shitting on your video is to submit it as a perfectly crafted gif which takes dozens of trial and error iterations to produce? It's 2019. Every other media sharing site on the planet is friendlier to preserving video quality than Twitter is. For a platform which carries so much programming\technical content, having video compression set to 'DESTROY ANY KIND OF PIXEL LEVEL DETAIL' is super painful. I can't be the only user that stopped uploading video content because of the effort involved in hand- crafting Twitter gifs. Everything that can be achieved with these specially produced gifs could also be achieved by simply upping video quality for small videos. Plus removing the insanity of creating such content. Plus actually saving bandwidth since gifs are super wasteful. There's a whole category of articles about how to 'trick' Twitter into preserving the quality of your image or video upload. That's insane. Define and publish some compression specs at which you won't destroy the content. ~~~ midgetjones The funniest and most depressing part of all this is that twitter 'gifs' are mp4s ~~~ vardump What video compression they use inside mp4 container? ~~~ midgetjones Picked a "gif" at random: Format : MPEG-4 Format profile : Base Media / Version 2 Codec ID : mp42 File size : 1.61 MiB Duration : 4s 890ms Overall bit rate : 2 766 Kbps Encoded date : UTC 2018-06-07 09:34:57 Tagged date : UTC 2018-06-07 09:34:57 Video ID : 1 Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : Baseline@L3.0 Format settings, CABAC : No Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame Codec ID : avc1 Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding Duration : 4s 890ms Bit rate : 2 764 Kbps Width : 720 pixels Height : 414 pixels Display aspect ratio : 1.739 Frame rate mode : Variable Frame rate : 33.538 fps Original frame rate : 1 000.000 fps Minimum frame rate : 33.333 fps Maximum frame rate : 1 000.000 fps Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.276 Stream size : 1.61 MiB (100%) Title : Twitter v1.0-757770b7c8e9d79a526cdff77e74666386274fdf Writing library : x264 core 148 Encoding settings : cabac=0 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=hex / subme=2 / psy=0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=1 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=0 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc=crf / mbtree=0 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=2:1.00 Encoded date : UTC 2018-06-07 09:34:57 Tagged date : UTC 2018-06-07 09:34:57 ------ ec109685 This will start making screenshots uploaded to their service lossy, with compression, which is unfortunate. ~~~ thanatos_dem Not necessarily, depends on what it’s a screenshot of. If it’s of a web page or application, odds are that it will have large sections of uniform color (white backgrounds for instance). This is compressed very well in PNG, which uses DEFLATE/LZ77. So it’s pretty likely that the PNG will be smaller than the converted JPEG in many cases. Screenshots of videos, photos, however will likely be converted. ------ pornel Images from pngquant[1] will be left unscathed, so use it if you want to preserve transparency and sharpness. The PNG-8 variant is 3-4 times smaller than a truecolor PNG, which is why Twitter is allowing it. [1]: [https://pngquant.org/](https://pngquant.org/) ~~~ xyzzy_plugh It looks like pngquant can change palette subtly, but for e.g. pixel art or art with carefully selected palettes what are the downsides? ~~~ pornel Pixel art is likely to have only a few dominant colors, so it should convert losslessly or nearly so. Most other quantization implementations unconditionally drop a few least significant bits of colors, giving images a posterized look of a 16-bit console. pngquant tries very hard not to do that, as its goal is to have no visible loss, just smaller files. ------ no_gravity I am not sure how to interpret the article. Does it mean there will be a way to upload an 8-Bit PNG image as a header image and Twitter will store and display it unmodified? That would be a great step forward. Currently, the compressed header images look really bad. ------ raymondgh “image load performance needed at a global scale“ Looks like supporting high quality png can be added to our list of creative things founders do to bootstrap their businesses that don’t scale. But converting millions of existing pieces of content from transparent to white background is surely a loss for the people. Not as bad as when Microsoft rolled back everyone’s onedrive storage though. ~~~ mschwaig > These changes will be applied to all images uploaded to Twitter from > February 11th and forward, regardless of the category the image is for. Looks like they only do the conversion for newly uploaded images beginning Feburary 11th. ~~~ raymondgh Ah rats. Reading comprehension fail. Thx. I guess the change is not really so much to complain about, though I suppose it could be argued that they’re dropping product quality after cementing large market share. ------ pram The way Twitter and Instagram mangle and crap up images reminds me of how AOL used to download all images in a really awful format: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ART_image_file_format](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ART_image_file_format) The more things change! ------ maxst If PNG-8 will be "preserved unmodified", then APNG in PNG-8 like this one will probably work: [https://tinypng.com/images/apng/panda- waving.png](https://tinypng.com/images/apng/panda-waving.png) ------ jchw So in other words they're closing the loophole where you can force lossless by adding a single transparent pixel. This is almost definitely good for Twitter's bottom line, but no doubt it is bad for a growing segment of their userbase: artists. People have been flocking to Twitter from sites like deviantArt, Tumblr, etc. to escape drama, harassment, policy changes, etc. for years now. The latest round of them come from Tumblr's explicit content purge. Now, I actually don't use Twitter. But the news of this change spread so quickly that I already heard about it last night. So to say that this is a problem is an understatement. I'm currently recommending to people to just upload their work elsewhere and make use of Twitter's decent embedding functionality. (Pixiv is a great site to post drawings, for example, and it embeds decently on Twitter.) (On the other hand, I do like that smaller PNGs win against JPEG - I am fairly sure in the past, transparency was one of the only criteria that kept you as PNG.) ~~~ anon_cow1111 Twitter is one of the worst sites to post artwork on. Not due to compression, but the complete lack of features a dedicated art gallery normally has. Tagging and searchability are bad. Artists don't usually make separate accounts for art and blogs/memes so good luck filtering it. No one's going to see your old content. I can't remember pixiv's rules specifically, isn't it based in japan? The black line censorship thing isn't going to fly with anyone who left tumblr because they banned NSFW. ~~~ jchw It has flied with plenty of artists actually, many of them I personally know have taken the compromise long before Tumblr officially banned pornographic content. In addition, Pixiv doesn't moderate this super actively; it turns out if you stick uncensored variants outside page 1 you generally get a blind eye. Generally, people are a lot less afraid of having their entire accounts banned for rule violations, unlike American websites. (This case is particularly fascinating to me because said rule violation is quite literally breaking the law... but apparently they are still more lenient than Western websites tend to be about mundane issues.) I'm not saying I disagree that Twitter is a terrible site for artists. But, artists want a social platform where they can both post freely and interact with non-artists or people in different forms of art. Pixiv and SoundCloud are both great websites, but it turns out A.) A lot of people dabble in both music production and drawing, and B.) A lot of the same people in both of these art forms interact with eachother. (This is especially apparent looking at indie games and gamejams!) Fwiw, Twitter has been pretty mixed on NSFW content. They've turned a blind eye to most of it. Especially for Japanese-speaking users, presumably because Japanese advertisers don't have the same mentality as Western ones do. Still, I've heard of a few accounts being banned for vague reasons. So yeah... Twitter is not great for art. But, artists want a general social platform to hang out in, and for many Twitter is currently serving that purpose for better or worse. ------ bitwize Is it too much to ask that Twitter serve the _very same_ image I uploaded without subjecting my content to AOL-style "optimizations"? ------ zyx321 Didn't know PNG supported palette mode. From a pure image quality standpoint, is there any difference between a palette PNG-8 and a still GIF? ~~~ kevin_b_er The PNG supports translucent pixels, not just 100 or 0% transparency. ~~~ donatj Yep. Photoshop's PNG library however does not, it's palleted PNG support doesn't handle Alpha for some reason. ------ rvSGK4 Couldn't they store both versions and return the better version if a tweet became popular? ~~~ acct1771 This seems like YouTube feedback loops on hot videos. Images who already have virility will be the ones in full res. ------ aviraldg Yes, what a great feature to work on while they've spent 6+ months on restoring access to many of their earliest users[1] with nothing to show for it, and no further communication from their support. [1] [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/31/twitter-b...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/31/twitter- blocking-users-who-were-underage-when-they-signed-up)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: Any recent alternative to “”http the definitive guide“ - soulbadguy Looking a good book which provide an in-depth overview of http. "http the definitive guide" seems to be getting old. And doesn't cover HTTP2 and Oauth and openID authentications. Any alternatives? ====== auganov As obvious as it is, I want to remind everyone to just read through the relevant RFCs as a primer before diving into more usecase'y or best practices information. ------ eric_bullington It's not quite as expansive as HTTP: The Definitive Guide, but I highly recommend High Performance Browser Networking* by Ilya Grigorik. Very well- written, with good coverage of not only HTTP, but only WebSockets and WebRTC. I highly recommend it. *High Performance Browser Networking: What every web developer should know about networking and web performance 1st Edition ------ gexos The book is outdated but still has a tone of useful information ant it fully covers HTTP 1.1, which is still the most up-to-date version of HTTP protocol. According to W3Techs only 1.2% of all websites support HTTP/2 (August 2015).	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
A New Improved Lottery - gwern http://lesswrong.com/lw/hm/new_improved_lottery/ ====== skilesare This isn't a terrible idea if we can attach some wisdom of the crowds and human intelligence to reduce the randomness. It is what I'm trying to do at [http://hypercapital.info](http://hypercapital.info)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Using Raspberry Pi 3B+ as an Oil Tank Monitoring Solution - pettycashstash2 http://myoilguage.com/ ====== pettycashstash2 I wanted to check my heating oil tank from anywhere and anytime and not worry about running to the basement to check oil level. I also wanted to prevent middle-of-the-night run-outs, especially during cold weather. This enables me to track heating oil usage by the hour, quarter hour, whatever data capture frequency I wish. I can now know how much oil burned exactly throughout the day, and adjust the thermostat to conserve fuel. Detailed write up is on Github [https://github.com/pettycashstash/oiltankmonitor/wiki](https://github.com/pettycashstash/oiltankmonitor/wiki)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Zirtual Shuts Down - bamazizi http://techcrunch.com/2015/08/10/zirtual-pause/ ====== bamazizi This can't be real! She was just on 'This Week in Startups' (TWIST) and Jason was drooling at Zirtual's $11m run rate after only couple of years. (Jason Calacanis is an investor) Was she lying throughout the interview? Is Silicon Valley built on engineered/bought hype and no real substance? video source: [https://youtu.be/Tq_dMxsWe48](https://youtu.be/Tq_dMxsWe48) ~~~ jacquesm It's real alright. Previous discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10033517](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10033517) > Is Silicon Valley built on engineered/bought hype and no real substance? Erm. That's a tough one.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Cloudflare is experiencing failures in its connections to hosts - artemisbot https://www.cloudflarestatus.com/incidents/hptvkprkvp23 ====== dang Most comments moved to [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24322861](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24322861). ------ jgrahamc This isn't a Cloudflare-specific issue. Level 3/CenturyLink are in trouble. Affecting other providers (see, for example, Fastly's Status page: [https://status.fastly.com/](https://status.fastly.com/)). @dang or another mod, would be better to link to [https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/outages/2020-August/013187...](https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/outages/2020-August/013187.html) as this isn't a Cloudflare issue. ~~~ 1f60c The Level3 outage thread is here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24322861](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24322861) ------ reimertz Title needs to be updated. Issues are not limited to CloudFlare but to CenturyLink and Level3 ------ lapcatsoftware Brilliant idea to recentralize the decentralized internet. Edit: With more information coming in, I don't think the current issue is specific to Cloudflare. FWIW I'm having zero issues in mid-US. ~~~ coldtea Well, for most smaller websites using something like Cloudflare means they are more decentralized, more easily, than less (e.g. instead of using their single source of failure own server). ~~~ waheoo I don't really know why we need to discuss this now but the point has nothing to do with this. Small sites don't really need that decentralization, sure it's nice that it's easy but this isn't the problem. The problem is that in aggregate you end up with an internet with a single point of failure. And even if as it is now isn't a big problem, who's to say that one day it is a huge problem? ~~~ coldtea > _The problem is that in aggregate you end up with an internet with a single > point of failure._ And the other problem, which I'm pointing at, is that without using something like Cloudflare, you end giving yourself more points of failure (more pressure, DDoS, lack of easy load balancing, most costs and devops to implement those yourself, etc). And each site doesn't care if 10000 others go down together -- if anything that's good, if their competitors go down for a while. They care for their own status... > _And even if as it is now isn 't a big problem, who's to say that one day it > is a huge problem?_ I'd say periodic mass failures should inform our usage and dependance patterns of the internet so that we're not 100% dependent on it 24/7, in which case sites going down together never becomes "a huge problem". In other words, one way to never have it be a huge problem is to make the internet perfectly decentralized (which is impossible anyway -- first because sites people care about is a power law distribution, e.g. Google, MS, Amazon, stores, app stores, etc, so if Google goes down there's a disruption to billions of people, even if millions of lesser sites are up that much fewer care about, -- and second because critical instrastructure is shared, e.g. undersea cables etc. The other way to never have it be a huge problem is to learn and adapt to situations when sites might be done, and build resilient alternative ways of operation (analogue, if need be). ------ ahphaiT1 As a Tor user and privacy maximalist, I see no difference from usual. What you are experiencing today is the normal state of the nowadays web when you refuse to be tracked. ~~~ sammy2244 You are cringe	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Scientists at MIT create mathematical model to predict alloy characteristics - arjn http://www.innovationnewsdaily.com/1546-mathematical-shortcut-create-new-metals.html ====== blix At the risk of being a downer, this isn't that interesting from a computer science perspective. What happened here is that standard computational methods were applied to test a novel theory of stability for nanocrystalline metals[1]. While this is cool and all for metallurgists[2], even by materials science standards the computation is old (we're pretty slow to pick up on this whole computer thing). There's some (in my opinion) more interesting work going on at MIT[3] in ceramics, where machine learning is being used to predict new material properties. Unfortunately, the group hasn't gotten published in Science or Nature yet, so I don't have much to link to. However, ceramics both are more variable than metals and less well known (one of my professors liked to call it the 'Wild West' of materials), so the big results are likely to be more exciting when they do arrive. \-- [1] All common metals are formed of arrays of tiny crystals, however the metals described here have much smaller crystals than usual (nanometers instead of microns). This strengthens the metals as the movement of crystal defects is the main source of weakness in metals. Defects can easily move within a single crystal, but not so much between them, so reducing the size of crystals significantly hampers defect movement and thus strengthens the metal. Unfortunately, crystals don't like being this small and so preventing them from growing is a serious concern and the focus of this research. [2] The new theory is actually pretty exciting, and seem to expose significant flaws in the old theory. I don't understand it well enough to say much more though. [3] <http://ceder.mit.edu/> ------ FrojoS That sounds big. I still remember the horrors from my two mandatory terms of material science. "The school of 'ALCHMI' argues this is what gives the alloy property X, while the school 'HOCUS'says, its the sudden drop off at xx deg in the Iron-carbon phase diagram ...." Maybe it wasn't that bad, but it never felt like a precise science to me, at least compared to the other subjects you take as Mechi, like Math, Dynamics or Controls. The abstract (Thank you montecarl) only talks about "nanostructured metals" though. I wonder if this scales. ~~~ blix In defense of MatSE, you only took the course for non-majors (I assume). I assure you that it gets a lot more legit after that, much in the same way MechE gets more interesting once you move past statics. To answer your question though, the model doesn't scale, but that's because the problem doesn't scale. We're talking about a bulk sample of metal made up of crystals that are, according to the old theory, too small to be stable. Once the crystals become larger, the old theory adequately describes their stability. ------ montecarl Link to abstract: <http://www.sciencemag.org/content/337/6097/951.abstract>	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The tapeworm that turned into a tumour - DrScump http://www.nature.com/news/the-tapeworm-that-turned-into-a-tumour-1.18726 ====== DrScump This case is _not_ the very recent case from Napa, California (see cbslocal link posted subsequent to this for that story)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
India’s data labellers are powering the global AI race - yarapavan https://factordaily.com/indian-data-labellers-powering-the-global-ai-race/ ====== LogicRiver This is the new back-office for AI processes and looks like India is tapping into it just at the right time just like the BPO boom in the early 2000's. ~~~ Gpetrium Unsurprisingly since they have had a strong tech workforce with cheap labor cost and an advantage in language (English). It will be interesting to see them move up the value chain and the disruption it may create. ------ snrji Unsupervised learning is the dark matter of AI, as LeCun said. We cannot rely on labeled data, which is expensive and scarce. The first company to figure out how to leverage the massive unlabeled data that is available will win the AI arms race. We have already seen impressive progress (language models, GANs...) but much more work remains. Models requiring labeled data or only working with toy data (even if unlabeled) will soon become irrelevant. ~~~ mijail What's the current sentiment on synthetic data? It may be a self serving question since I work at synthetic data company but I'm curious for fear of being stuck in an echo chamber. ~~~ ska It's no magic bullet. I think it can help in particular instances but see a lot of people chasing their own tails. ------ uberneo Well thats a really great initiative as this gives good money to the local villagers who are just enough educated to do this respectable office job. One concern is how they are handling the sensitive client data and why does client trust on them for sensitive proprietary data. ~~~ mark_l_watson I agree that it is great to provide meaningful work and competitive to local norms salaries. re: client trust: compare to systems like Mechanical Turk. An established data labeling company can monitor what employees are doing, provide ethics training/warnings, etc. ------ Abishek_Muthian There are captcha defeating click farms in the country, employees of which are paid ~2$/day. I hope at-least data-set labelling empolyees are in a better position as they are expected to have better skill set. This is a better job than illegal/unethical farms. ------ ashildr Throwaway away storyline: future AIs perception is skewed by ‚the‘ Indian perspective on the world. The first self aware AI will feel and act Indian - what ever that means - and any other AI on a global scale, too :) ------ deppp Late to the party. This article mentions AI based labeling tools and we're building one of them. If you're interested to try it out send me an email mik @ heartex.net ------ thisisit One of the earliest companies I know in this field was Playment, a YC company and mentioned in the article too: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13640084](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13640084) ------ baybal2 I wonder, how much of it grew up from a "human captcha solving" market? ~~~ speeq Meanwhile Google reCAPTCHA makes us label cars and road signs for free.. ~~~ Cthulhu_ In exchange, we are exposed to a minimal amount of comment spam. If it's anything like email, systems like captcha prevent 99.9% of spam messages. Besides, how often do you see captchas anyway? If you're not using super privacy / tracking protective browsers, they'll remain hidden for the most part, and the ones you see are the simple 'check this box' variety. ~~~ pavs Because of how Cloudflare works, and how ubiquitous they are, specifically, internet users from a non-western country can get bombarded with recapchas. It is so prevalent and annoying that I had to resort using VPN (located on a western country), to avoid this nuisance. It literally breaks the internet for me, I had to go through recapchas 12-15 times a day. ------ samtrack2019 We (Humans) are helping our robot lord to build Skynet! ~~~ martin_a I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords. ------ drinane I hope they have a sense of humor and drop some great Easter eggs for god 2.0	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Is your startup idea already taken? - kjbinu http://whittleidea.com/blog/is-your-start-up-idea-already-taken ====== staunch The difference between something merely _existing_ and something _remarkable_ existing. If you find that someone has already done your idea, and they've executed well, consider abandoning your idea. If they haven't solved the problem well enough then it doesn't matter that they _exist_. One of the greatest sources of motivation in solving a problem is the anticipation to use the solution. If a good solution already exists then you're not going to have that. Think of the Zune team. Those guys were trying to solve a problem that the iPod had already solved so well. Where's the excitement? They had to make up artificial problems for the Zune to solve (WiFi song sharing) just to get excited about it. The problem is that the market doesn't care about artificial problems. ------ sheff I like the point the author makes that "If prospective users are still available, the idea is still available." Take online time tracking applications for example. I was looking through Mixergy earlier and there was an interview with an entrepreneur who runs a time tracking app ( <http://mixergy.com/tom-rossi-molehill-interview/> ) which reminded me of an interview I'd read a while ago with another entrepreneur who also runs a time tracking app ( Clockspot , [http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2010/12/11/engineering-...](http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2010/12/11/engineering- a-muse-volume-2-case-studies-of-successful-cash-flow-businesses/) ) And of course HN user, Amy Hoy, also blogs about her profitable time tracking SAAS app Freckle ( letsfreckle.com ). I bet they weren't the first to come up with the idea of online time tracking applications, and more people will come up with similar businesses in the future but as long as they have some differentiation and find users (or rather, customers) its irrelevant how shiny and new the "idea" is. ~~~ hello_moto Collaboration, Project Management, Dashboard, Time Tracking, Invoicing, Accounting, CRM, ERP (simple ones), Inventory Management Systems, Contact List, Todo List, Customer Support/Ticketing Management Systems, Knowledge Based, Forum. Re-do everything above and add the word "social" next to them (e.g.: Social CRM) It can be done. ~~~ ahoyhere Unnecessary. Our apps aren't "social." :) ~~~ hello_moto That is not my intention. What I'm trying to say is that there are traditional tools, the baseline, the fundamentals, such as the list I mentioned above. Then there's another genre which add the 'social aspect' to the traditional tools. Did I mention freckle to be a social time tracking? Nope :) ~~~ ahoyhere No, but your comment implied that "it" is hard to do but if you slap on some social, "it can be done." You don't need to do anything so serious as "add social" to do "it." ------ DannyPage I just had this very epiphany today. After being rejected by two potential investors because of that reason ("Have you heard of X?"). It's frustrating to say "Yes, I have, and here is why we are different", but still get written off. The investor seems to stop listening after the "Yes", which stinks especially since the main problem I see with Company X is that no one is using it! (They are very loud and in the press, so it gives them an appearance of dominance). So, I will definitely try using that answer next time, if only to force the investor to realize that while the idea is out there, it hasn't won yet. ~~~ scott_s Perhaps you should start off your pitch with "Why no one actually uses _X_." We have a similar problem in research, where we have to always demonstrate that what we do is novel. A technique that I have taken a liking to is to talk about all of the related work as soon as possible, so we can distinguish ourselves immediately. The difficulty with only distinguishing yourself at the end is that your audience has been bearing a "someone has already done this" grudge the whole time. It's difficult for them to let that go, no matter how good your answer is. edit: I just looked at the page for your startup, and it wasn't immediately obvious to me that your site is a place to find classes out in the real world. ~~~ untog _Perhaps you should start off your pitch with "Why no one actually uses X."_ Yes and no. I'd maybe try to rephrase that to something along the lines of "I've looked through their site and I haven't seen any evidence of them attracting users". Dismissing a rival with "meh, no-one uses it!" makes it sound like you haven't really considered the competition. ~~~ DannyPage True, what I wrote initially would seem arrogant in a vacuum. In a fuller discussion, I would cite their main actionable metrics that I've kept track of and show that there is no organic growth occurring. Then I would show what we are doing to make that actionable metric grow. BTW, I don't waste too much time concerning their success (just a once a month check) especially since my company's success is most important. No one asks "Isn't your company just like X" when you are winning :) ~~~ wtvanhest I went to your site Knackeo. I have a tough time seeing what you are doing by going to the site and clicking all workable buttons. I'm sure investors did that too before meeting with you. A really simple graphical explanation about who pays what might work? I really don't know, but what does peak my interest is that it seems like it will be a variety of crazy stuff rather than another lesson in math. I liked the comment that you should start your pitch with what others are doing and how you will address a different market or beat them in their own market. This stuff is obviously really tricky, but I feel like you have something you just are not showing. ------ chris123 Amazing how many people believe the fallacy (that VCs and others perpetuate) that you have to, or even should be, "first." Second movers (and later) rule. Apple, Google, Facebook, Dropbox, many more. Heck, all Facobook and Google do is copy other ideas or via buy companies and copy them that way. ~~~ leeskye My startup is tackling what my former employer attempted to do, but I'm going to do it much better and sell a far superior product. I interfaced with customers and users at my last company. They failed to address the pain points that were brought up. Additionally they failed to pay attention to how the needs of users were evolving. I took it upon myself to address these customers and build something better. ~~~ kappaknight Make sure you don't infringe on any IP's or violate any non-competes. =) ------ ISeemToBeAVerb A good nugget of wisdom. I would also add that investors are, by no means, the only people who suffer from this false idea of scarcity. It's very difficult to encourage first-time entrepreneurs who fall into the belief that their idea is the most valuable asset to their success. You hear it all the time, "I had this great idea, but then I got online and saw that it was taken." This is no way to think when it comes to business. In my mind it is absolutely critical to understand that markets are always changing and consumer taste is always changing. To be sure, there ARE some formidable challenges in more established and saturated markets, but nothing is guaranteed. There is always room for innovation and elegant solutions. You can rest assured that if there is no competition, there will be. You can also rest assured that if competition exists, someone is making money. Why not you too? ------ uptown Before Google there was AltaVista. Carry on. ------ mmahemoff StackOverflow vs the legacy of Expertsexchange is a great example of this. Those guys understood the user well and built a great user experience around what had previously been lacklustre at best. ~~~ esrauch Even though I should know better by now, I still read it as "Expert sex change" ------ pud Every entrepreneur has heard "that already exists" a million times. Next time someone says that to me I'll try the smart-ass-ish retort described in this post. ------ RuggeroAltair Good article. But I think that there is also another point to make. It's true that there is often space to be the one idea that delivers in a way that is easy enough to use for the general user to the point of having the chance to be the winning product. But I believe that that kind of answers from investors shows in general a pretty clouded judgement. I think that when they respond like that, it means that they don't actually like the idea in the first place. Otherwise, exactly "because" there is some other similar product around, that in general means that there is some level of market validation. And if it's possible to show that those companies are profitable, then it's likely, if they trust your team, that also your company will be profitable. This should be enough, you don't necessarily need to convince them that you will kill them all, you just need to convince them that you will make money. Then, after you convinced them, you can keep going with your goal of being the unique winner of that market. ------ Pound6F Great points BUT I think saying "checking if the prospective users are already taken" is missing a large part of it. Before Google, I used Altavista. Before Facebook, I used MySpace. I thought those first services were great but then someone else came and executed so much better that I switch. Accept that fact that you will (almost) never have a truly unique idea and just focus on executing astronomically better than anyone else ever has. ------ kschua "Drew Houston turned to an investor who dismissed the idea & asked 'Do you use any file sharing service?. The answer was 'No'" This is GOLD. Drew probably found the competitive edge by figuring out why the investor didn't use those other file sharing service and fixed that investor's pain ~~~ Ecio78 It's a nice reply but IMHO it works only if your investors are (a subset of) your typical customer base. Do you think you can use the same approach if you're pitching a new service for, let's say wedding spouses, or even pregnant women, and you're in front of 5 alpha males? ------ akoumjian Even if someone has already executed the idea well, the question is whether or not the market is big enough for you to share it. You can always find a niche or a value add that separates you from established competitors. ------ saiju There are so many ideas that I always knew deep within but then somebody has to spell it out for me to believe. This article is another such reinforcement. ------ Priyaj The author just nailed it. I really liked his 24 popular startup that misleads entrepreneurs" - he makes awesome points.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: Connect Laptop to TV without HDMI - naveensky Hi,<p>I am looking to use my Samsung Smart LED TV as an extended display for my laptop but wirelessly.<p>I am surprised that there is no option available to me except connecting via HDMI wire or purchase a WIDI device (which will only allow streaming videos). I also read a lot at http://www.dlna.org/ but it seems there is no option available.<p>Does any of you have any experience building a Raspberry PI based device which can help me extend my screen via wifi. If you can guide me to correct resources, I would love to work on this<p>Naveen ====== ippisl There's splashtop 2 , which lets you remote desktop your pc to an android tablet , and will work for games if your pc is strong enough. As far as i can tell(from some google research) it's the best one for games in the market. If your TV can run android apps, you might be set. If not, there are plenty of set top boxes or hdmi plugs that run android. But choose one that would be fast enough. Regarding doing it alone: as far as i can tell, efficenly compressing the video on a pc with low latency and decoding it on the other side is a hard problem, not a side project. And if you try,i think it would be wise to use something stronger than raspberry pi ,as least for starters. ------ a3n You could turn the problem around somewhat. Have a small but powerful enough computer on your LAN that's connected via HDMI to your TV. Now log in from your laptop over your LAN to the small PC and have the TV be (one of) the small PC's display device. X. ------ jacksondeane The upcoming OS X Mavericks release will support external displays over AirPlay and AppleTV. [http://www.apple.com/osx/preview/#multiple- displays](http://www.apple.com/osx/preview/#multiple-displays) ~~~ naveensky again, this si restrictive to Apple eco-system. Apple TV + Mac based machine. Any idea about alternate technologies?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Safari on iOS 7 and HTML5: problems, changes and new APIs - bpierre http://www.mobilexweb.com/blog/safari-ios7-html5-problems-apis-review ====== dashultz Yeah - we are hitting some odd issues but there is still one that I've yet to confirm. It appears that cookies are not being shared from safari and home screen bookmarks ------ edwinjm Worst thing is that serious bugs in Safari that surfaced during beta are not fixed for release.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Sweden fines pirate $650,000 for illegally sharing a single film - madhukarah http://engadget.com/2013/12/18/sweden-pirate-fine/ ====== kken This should be put in context. This is no unassuming teenager who downloaded a film via a file sharing network and was caught "distributing" it, due to the nature of file sharing. He uploaded an unreleased movie that has not been released otherwise, thereby causing significant damage to the original producers. Furthermore he got fined extra to due uploading the film in bad quality, thereby damaging reputation. ~~~ Maakuth > He uploaded an unreleased movie that has not been released otherwise, > thereby causing significant damage to the original producers. Furthermore he > got fined extra to due uploading the film in bad quality, thereby damaging > reputation. What the... I find this highly amusing, as copyright holders have previously argued that high quality copies are also damaging. ~~~ thaumasiotes You remind me of two things: 1\. I have read (and don't take this as trustworthy; my memory could be failing or my forgotten source could have just been making it up) that after a PR campaign to get mexican prostitutes and their patrons to use condoms, condom use was no more prevalent, but prostitute earnings were up. The campaign had gotten men to ask for their preferred mode, and the prostitutes acted as if they preferred the other mode and charged more for the "accommodation". 2\. In the first Myth Adventure book, Skeeve is taught the concept of the "magician's choice". As illustrated in the book, it's used like so: Skeeve has, say, a horse and a lizard. The only magic he can do is an illusion to make the lizard look like a horse. So, to prove to some important individual that he's a mighty magician, he brings his horse and his horse-that-is- secretly-a-lizard. He asks, "would you be so kind as to choose one of these horses?" The dupe points to the real one. "Very good. By your word shall that creature be spared." And he dispels the illusion on the lizard, taking credit for the fearsome ability to curse horses (and, presumably, other things) into lizards. Since that was the only thing he could do, the "magician's choice" consisted of asking his dupe to choose an animal, so that they felt in control, but without specifying any consequences of the choice. Had the guy indicated the fake horse, Skeeve would have cursed "the creature you have doomed with a word". Sadly, I think copyright holders as a class will be able to get away with talking out of both sides of their mouth as long as they don't make both complaints (low quality is _especially damaging_ because it damages the film's reputation, and high quality is _especially damaging_ because it depresses demand for the official product) in the same case. Personally, of those two theories, I think the argument for high quality being more damaging is much stronger. ~~~ lisper Speaking as a filmmaker myself, you are overlooking an important point: timing matters. A lot. Releasing a low-quality bootleg after a film has already been officially released through normal channels is very different from releasing a low-quality bootleg as the film's de-facto premiere. You only get one chance to make a first impression, and in this case the pirate took that opportunity away from the filmmaker. ~~~ DanBC I was about to disagree with you and say that anyone downloading pre-release low quality products know that they're getting low quality product and know that the film will be better. But then I remembered the people with beta OS access who file reviews for software that doesn't work with that beta product yet, even though the software producers are not allowed to incorporate those fixes yet. ~~~ pbhjpbhj I don't think the Beta OS users software review situation carries over to the other context. If it's a low quality then you're relying on the story. If the story of the movie is good then there's no harm - people will be more keen to see it. If the story is OK but the visuals are clearly harmed by the quality of the copy - then people will be more keen to see it in a better definition/encoding/format. Some movies you just know you want to see at the cinema even if you've bought the DVD just because you know you'll appreciate the scale more. I've never watched a movie with a good story and said "I wouldn't watch that if the visuals were _better_ ". YM[as a movie distributor]MV. ~~~ MichaelGG Anecdote: I torrented Ponyo when it first came out, before the English version was available (it never had a theatrical release where my kids live), right during the Japanese theatre release. It was a terrible screener, complete with people getting up in the middle of it. And a rather funny attempt at subtitles. Even so, my kids watched it on repeat for weeks. ------ e_proxus Here's a nice write up of the actual, bizarre details of how the sum was calculated: [http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&u=ht...](http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcomputersweden.idg.se%2F2.2683%2F1.540098) Complementary dictionary: Hittepåsiffror - made-up-numbers filmbranschräv - a sly old movie industry fox ickebevisade - non-proven svajjiga - shaky ------ orjan This isn't a fine. This is the damages he's been sentenced to pay to the rights holders. ~~~ Dylan16807 So if the damages for thousands to millions of copies of the movie are being blamed on the initial public seeder, does that mean nobody else in the torrent is responsible for any damages? ~~~ gizmo686 The damage that a single peer causes is roughly that they themselves are less likely to purchase the movie. There is an aggravate effect of having such a large swarm enable additional people to enter this group, but the contribution of any individual to this is small. In contrast, the initial uploader is what enabled the entire thing in the first place. ------ dspillett Fines are not _just_ to recompense the apparent victim of an action, they are intended to deter others from repeating the action. If the risk of getting caught is small the fine needs to he high enough that ChanceOfGettingCaught*Punishment is far enough from zero that it figures in people's minds. Unfortunately this only seems to apply to individuals: companies seem to get slap-on-the-wrist fines were individuals get send-you-to-the-poverty-line fines. ~~~ tspiteri I find the thought of having punishment inversely proportional to chance-of- getting-caught disturbing. Because if the risk of getting caught is very small (which is the very case the system would be addressing), the punishment would necessarily be disproportionately huge. I can never agree with a disproportionately huge punishment. ~~~ 3825 I wonder if gp would call for people to be hanged, quartered, and drawn for treason. ~~~ dspillett I wasn't calling for, agreeing with, or supporting _anything_. I was simply stating how such a fine value would likely have been arrived at. ------ bberrry He actually admitted to sharing 13 films illegally (accused of sharing a total of 517 films). He was an uploader on a private Swedish tracker called Swebits.org which is where the alleged crimes took place. ------ drdaeman It's not the first time something like that happened. So, I wonder, what are reactions to such cases except for discussion on Internet forums? Were there any petitions to governments, maybe even some civil protest actions or, on the other hand, initiatives to replace non-anonymous BitTorrent with anonymizing networks? ------ MichaelGG How was he caught? A specially leaked watermarked version? It seems that if you're in the scene, you'd want to take a lot of network precautions.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Who’ll Put Out Company Fires When Tech Workers Are at Burning Man? - petethomas http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-43300 ====== informatimago And who cares about company fires? The important thing on this planet are the Humans, including those who are at Burning Man, not the fucking companies. ------ ant6n It seems fashionable to hate on Burning Man these days.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }

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