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wondering if that's the um {disfmarker} If fifty percent is normal {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mark-upMarketing: B yeah. Um I would think would be more like sixty percent. But um let me {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: I have two thoughts. One hundred, fifty percent.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: And and your question is how many do we have to sellProject Manager: Yes,'cause our market um is international and your problem is {disfmarker} has to do with marketing of {disfmarker} you know, you gotta know how many we're going to be selling to know how big a market you have to target and who is that.Marketing: At twenty five. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's um {disfmarker}Project Manager: To give you a pretty good idea of where you're looking.Marketing: So that's four million of themProject Manager: Something like that Okay.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: That's fifty million Euros. In order to make fifty million Euros, and you're only getting twelve and a half each {disfmarker}Marketing: And if we make {disfmarker} Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's a lot of selling. Two four {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Four million.Project Manager: To be fifty, be four million. You'd have to sell four million.Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: Okay Right. Experience with a remote control. Any of you use of remote control for a television or D_V_D_ or something You're both nodding,Industrial Designer: That that that's the sorta product we're talking about, one that will work for a {disfmarker} in a home environment, for a T_V_s and {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: all three. Well I've seen some remote controls that are for more than one device at a time, but I also have heard about them not working well or not well co-ordinated and you wind up working with this one for thi this three and then this one over here for another.User Interface: It is true that you always sit around Interface: A sharkIndustrial Designer: why didn't I think of fish That's even easier to draw than cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm {vocalsound} this is very representational fish. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Fine.Marketing: Um I like them because they're sleekProject Manager: Favourite characteristicsMarketing: and they have a lot of freedom but they also do n uh swim in groups,Project Manager:'Kay.Marketing: so.Project Manager: So they have team elements. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you have a favourite oneProject Manager: I'm afraid I'm with Steph. And I think your pen's running out of whatever. But I'm afraid I take the coward's way out, and the cat's looking the other way. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: He's hiding.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um cats are sometimes very independent. My parents had cats. Uh and they can mm decide for themselves what is best. Okay. Now um {vocalsound} we have to get down to the nitty-gritty of how to make this and this remote control has to be sold {disfmarker} um we're to sell it for twenty five Euros, with a profit aim ultimately of fifty million Euros. That tells you something about how many um we have to sell on an international scale. Um would be an awful lot of these, would be like what, a hundred million of them um to make twenty five Euros on each one and to make a total profit of fifty million. Um the production is to only cost twelve and a half Euros per item. Now if they cost twelve and a half, you're selling it for twenty five, you're making twelve and a half Euros each. Um and we're to make a profit of fifty million, that's t uh {disfmarker} can you do the maths and how many are we sellingMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah. {vocalsound} I was just {disfmarker} you know, you're sitting on your sofa and you wanna change something, there's five different remotes, and one for the D_V_D_ and one for the video and one for cable and one for whatever else.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm. Y yeah.Project Manager: And they don't always talk to each other.User Interface: But I presume this is t I presume this is just for television.Project Manager: Don't know. Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Are there any um ideas for the remote What would it be for and what group would be be for We have to think about that one.Marketing: We could make a Hello KittyIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: themed remote.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I think one in b bright colours would be good. {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think one that works would be good. {vocalsound}Marketing: We could totally go for the Japan-a-mation. Well I mean there's also the cachet that um uh the Japanese make great {vocalsound} products. Electrical {disfmarker} their industrial design is very good.User Interface: I think one that doesn't have lots of superfluous functions. Like I've got one at home that has well, apart from the obvious, channels, channel up, channel down, volume,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: you know, subtitles, mute, there's a lotta buttons that I've got no idea what they do, like {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, that's a really good point,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: because I think one of the things that {disfmarker} being somewhat computer literate, we tend to um go to menus and then make choices, you know, so if it's like an uh volume button, you know, you can go in and say mute or or volume. We don't need to have like the l the numbers if we also have uh uh channel up channel down.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Mm. {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Mm. We can make it smart like an iPod, you know, make everything menus.User Interface: Ooh, closing the meeting.Project Manager: Yeah. Um I know this sounds like it was very quick,User Interface: That was quick.Project Manager: but the I think that's the industrial design is the first one,Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: that's Kate, for the working design.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And user, that's you S Steph, for the technical functions design, and for marketing the user requirements specification. I think there's going to be a lot of {disfmarker} we have to help each other and work through this as a group, and I think we all, you know, {vocalsound} we like our kitty-cat and our rat and our fish, but I think we all have to like each other um to get this done. Uh as it says, we're gonna get individual instructions, but uh I don't think they allowed a lot of extra time, so I think a little bit of less of this and more at do will set us in good stead. Do you all agreeIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Alright. Um then I don't see any reason to prolong it and f we should finish this meeting at ni right now and go into other things. Alright, so this is the end of the first meeting.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: Thank you all. it's just to try out the whiteboard. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Ah {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Only animal I could thin I could draw {vocalsound}.Marketing: I know.Industrial Designer: Its a sort of bunny rabbit cat. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You can tell it's not a bunny rabbit by the ears.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Industrial Designer: Um I suppose it should have a mouth as well, sort of {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Right, yeah.Project Manager: Great. And the characteristicsIndustrial Designer: Um the favourite characteristics of the cat um {disfmarker} the whiskers I think, um because they're the easiest to draw.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Industrial Designer: In fact, I'll give it some more {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh, and the tailProject Manager: Fantastic. Since you're handy as well, why don't you do yours next, Steph. I think it's to get us used to using the pen.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yes. Um sure it's not to test our artistic {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh no. {vocalsound} A mouse-yIndustrial Designer: It's a mouse.User Interface: That's not a mouse-y, no.Industrial Designer: No it's not a mouse. It's a wombat.Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: It's a ratty.Project Manager: Argh.Industrial Designer: A whatProject Manager: Rat.User Interface: A ratty.Project Manager: Not a mouse, a rat.Industrial Designer: A webbed foot. Webbed f {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} It's clothes. That's it's clothes. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh right {vocalsound}.User Interface: It's a ratty with a with a with a very long tail.Project Manager: And your favourite characteristics of that animal.User Interface: I love whiskers. Uh they're intelligent and they're cheeky {vocalsound} and uh fantastic petsProject Manager: Oh.User Interface: and very friendly.Project Manager: Okay. KateIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: And they sit on your shoulder and whisper the answers to your homework in your ear when you're doing your homework.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thanks.Project Manager: Oh, a fish.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Gosh,User

Why did Marketing disagree with Project Manager when Project Manager proposed the setting price

The setting price of each remote control that Project Manager proposed was twenty-five, but Marketing had doubts about the profits. Marketing wasn't sure that if the mark-up of fifty percent is normal for a product, and preferred sixty percent.

wondering if that's the um {disfmarker} If fifty percent is normal {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mark-upMarketing: B yeah. Um I would think would be more like sixty percent. But um let me {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: I have two thoughts. One hundred, fifty percent.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: And and your question is how many do we have to sellProject Manager: Yes,'cause our market um is international and your problem is {disfmarker} has to do with marketing of {disfmarker} you know, you gotta know how many we're going to be selling to know how big a market you have to target and who is that.Marketing: At twenty five. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's um {disfmarker}Project Manager: To give you a pretty good idea of where you're looking.Marketing: So that's four million of themProject Manager: Something like that Okay.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: That's fifty million Euros. In order to make fifty million Euros, and you're only getting twelve and a half each {disfmarker}Marketing: And if we make {disfmarker} Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's a lot of selling. Two four {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Four million.Project Manager: To be fifty, be four million. You'd have to sell four million.Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: Okay Right. Experience with a remote control. Any of you use of remote control for a television or D_V_D_ or something You're both nodding,Industrial Designer: That that that's the sorta product we're talking about, one that will work for a {disfmarker} in a home environment, for a T_V_s and {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: all three. Well I've seen some remote controls that are for more than one device at a time, but I also have heard about them not working well or not well co-ordinated and you wind up working with this one for thi this three and then this one over here for another.User Interface: It is true that you always sit around {disfmarker} you know, you're sitting on your sofa and you wanna change something, there's five different remotes, and one for the D_V_D_ and one for the video and one for cable and one for whatever else.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm. Y yeah.Project Manager: And they don't always talk to each other.User Interface: But I presume this is t I presume this is just for television.Project Manager: Don't know. Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Are there any um ideas for the remote What would it be for and what group would be be for We have to think about that one.Marketing: We could make a Hello KittyIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: themed remote.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I think one in b bright colours would be good. {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think one that works would be good. {vocalsound}Marketing: We could totally go for the Japan-a-mation. Well I mean there's also the cachet that um uh the Japanese make great {vocalsound} products. Electrical {disfmarker} their industrial design is very good.User Interface: I think one that doesn't have lots of superfluous functions. Like I've got one at home that has well, apart from the obvious, channels, channel up, channel down, volume,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: you know, subtitles, mute, there's a lotta buttons that I've got no idea what they do, like {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, that's a really good point,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: because I think one of the things that {disfmarker} being somewhat computer literate, we tend to um go to menus and then make choices, you know, so if it's like an uh volume button, you know, you can go in and say mute or or volume. We don't need to have like the l the numbers if we also have uh uh channel up channel down.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Mm. {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Mm. We can make Interface: A sharkIndustrial Designer: why didn't I think of fish That's even easier to draw than cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm {vocalsound} this is very representational fish. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Fine.Marketing: Um I like them because they're sleekProject Manager: Favourite characteristicsMarketing: and they have a lot of freedom but they also do n uh swim in groups,Project Manager:'Kay.Marketing: so.Project Manager: So they have team elements. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you have a favourite oneProject Manager: I'm afraid I'm with Steph. And I think your pen's running out of whatever. But I'm afraid I take the coward's way out, and the cat's looking the other way. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: He's hiding.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um cats are sometimes very independent. My parents had cats. Uh and they can mm decide for themselves what is best. Okay. Now um {vocalsound} we have to get down to the nitty-gritty of how to make this and this remote control has to be sold {disfmarker} um we're to sell it for twenty five Euros, with a profit aim ultimately of fifty million Euros. That tells you something about how many um we have to sell on an international scale. Um would be an awful lot of these, would be like what, a hundred million of them um to make twenty five Euros on each one and to make a total profit of fifty million. Um the production is to only cost twelve and a half Euros per item. Now if they cost twelve and a half, you're selling it for twenty five, you're making twelve and a half Euros each. Um and we're to make a profit of fifty million, that's t uh {disfmarker} can you do the maths and how many are we sellingMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah. {vocalsound} I was just it smart like an iPod, you know, make everything menus.User Interface: Ooh, closing the meeting.Project Manager: Yeah. Um I know this sounds like it was very quick,User Interface: That was quick.Project Manager: but the I think that's the industrial design is the first one,Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: that's Kate, for the working design.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And user, that's you S Steph, for the technical functions design, and for marketing the user requirements specification. I think there's going to be a lot of {disfmarker} we have to help each other and work through this as a group, and I think we all, you know, {vocalsound} we like our kitty-cat and our rat and our fish, but I think we all have to like each other um to get this done. Uh as it says, we're gonna get individual instructions, but uh I don't think they allowed a lot of extra time, so I think a little bit of less of this and more at do will set us in good stead. Do you all agreeIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Alright. Um then I don't see any reason to prolong it and f we should finish this meeting at ni right now and go into other things. Alright, so this is the end of the first meeting.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: Thank you all. it's just to try out the whiteboard. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Ah {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Only animal I could thin I could draw {vocalsound}.Marketing: I know.Industrial Designer: Its a sort of bunny rabbit cat. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You can tell it's not a bunny rabbit by the ears.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Industrial Designer: Um I suppose it should have a mouth as well, sort of {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Right, yeah.Project Manager: Great. And the characteristicsIndustrial Designer: Um the favourite characteristics of the cat um {disfmarker} the whiskers I think, um because they're the easiest to draw.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Industrial Designer: In fact, I'll give it some more {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh, and the tailProject Manager: Fantastic. Since you're handy as well, why don't you do yours next, Steph. I think it's to get us used to using the pen.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yes. Um sure it's not to test our artistic {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh no. {vocalsound} A mouse-yIndustrial Designer: It's a mouse.User Interface: That's not a mouse-y, no.Industrial Designer: No it's not a mouse. It's a wombat.Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: It's a ratty.Project Manager: Argh.Industrial Designer: A whatProject Manager: Rat.User Interface: A ratty.Project Manager: Not a mouse, a rat.Industrial Designer: A webbed foot. Webbed f {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} It's clothes. That's it's clothes. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh right {vocalsound}.User Interface: It's a ratty with a with a with a very long tail.Project Manager: And your favourite characteristics of that animal.User Interface: I love whiskers. Uh they're intelligent and they're cheeky {vocalsound} and uh fantastic petsProject Manager: Oh.User Interface: and very friendly.Project Manager: Okay. KateIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: And they sit on your shoulder and whisper the answers to your homework in your ear when you're doing your homework.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thanks.Project Manager: Oh, a fish.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Gosh,User

What did Project Manager think of the necessity of setting the selling target

Project Manager thought that setting the selling target was of high importance for a big international company making marketing plans including sales target.

wondering if that's the um {disfmarker} If fifty percent is normal {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mark-upMarketing: B yeah. Um I would think would be more like sixty percent. But um let me {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: I have two thoughts. One hundred, fifty percent.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: And and your question is how many do we have to sellProject Manager: Yes,'cause our market um is international and your problem is {disfmarker} has to do with marketing of {disfmarker} you know, you gotta know how many we're going to be selling to know how big a market you have to target and who is that.Marketing: At twenty five. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's um {disfmarker}Project Manager: To give you a pretty good idea of where you're looking.Marketing: So that's four million of themProject Manager: Something like that Okay.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: That's fifty million Euros. In order to make fifty million Euros, and you're only getting twelve and a half each {disfmarker}Marketing: And if we make {disfmarker} Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's a lot of selling. Two four {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Four million.Project Manager: To be fifty, be four million. You'd have to sell four million.Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: Okay Right. Experience with a remote control. Any of you use of remote control for a television or D_V_D_ or something You're both nodding,Industrial Designer: That that that's the sorta product we're talking about, one that will work for a {disfmarker} in a home environment, for a T_V_s and {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: all three. Well I've seen some remote controls that are for more than one device at a time, but I also have heard about them not working well or not well co-ordinated and you wind up working with this one for thi this three and then this one over here for another.User Interface: It is true that you always sit around {disfmarker} you know, you're sitting on your sofa and you wanna change something, there's five different remotes, and one for the D_V_D_ and one for the video and one for cable and one for whatever else.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm. Y yeah.Project Manager: And they don't always talk to each other.User Interface: But I presume this is t I presume this is just for television.Project Manager: Don't know. Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Are there any um ideas for the remote What would it be for and what group would be be for We have to think about that one.Marketing: We could make a Hello KittyIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: themed remote.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I think one in b bright colours would be good. {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think one that works would be good. {vocalsound}Marketing: We could totally go for the Japan-a-mation. Well I mean there's also the cachet that um uh the Japanese make great {vocalsound} products. Electrical {disfmarker} their industrial design is very good.User Interface: I think one that doesn't have lots of superfluous functions. Like I've got one at home that has well, apart from the obvious, channels, channel up, channel down, volume,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: you know, subtitles, mute, there's a lotta buttons that I've got no idea what they do, like {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, that's a really good point,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: because I think one of the things that {disfmarker} being somewhat computer literate, we tend to um go to menus and then make choices, you know, so if it's like an uh volume button, you know, you can go in and say mute or or volume. We don't need to have like the l the numbers if we also have uh uh channel up channel down.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Mm. {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Mm. We can make Interface: A sharkIndustrial Designer: why didn't I think of fish That's even easier to draw than cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm {vocalsound} this is very representational fish. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Fine.Marketing: Um I like them because they're sleekProject Manager: Favourite characteristicsMarketing: and they have a lot of freedom but they also do n uh swim in groups,Project Manager:'Kay.Marketing: so.Project Manager: So they have team elements. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you have a favourite oneProject Manager: I'm afraid I'm with Steph. And I think your pen's running out of whatever. But I'm afraid I take the coward's way out, and the cat's looking the other way. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: He's hiding.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um cats are sometimes very independent. My parents had cats. Uh and they can mm decide for themselves what is best. Okay. Now um {vocalsound} we have to get down to the nitty-gritty of how to make this and this remote control has to be sold {disfmarker} um we're to sell it for twenty five Euros, with a profit aim ultimately of fifty million Euros. That tells you something about how many um we have to sell on an international scale. Um would be an awful lot of these, would be like what, a hundred million of them um to make twenty five Euros on each one and to make a total profit of fifty million. Um the production is to only cost twelve and a half Euros per item. Now if they cost twelve and a half, you're selling it for twenty five, you're making twelve and a half Euros each. Um and we're to make a profit of fifty million, that's t uh {disfmarker} can you do the maths and how many are we sellingMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah. {vocalsound} I was just it smart like an iPod, you know, make everything menus.User Interface: Ooh, closing the meeting.Project Manager: Yeah. Um I know this sounds like it was very quick,User Interface: That was quick.Project Manager: but the I think that's the industrial design is the first one,Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: that's Kate, for the working design.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And user, that's you S Steph, for the technical functions design, and for marketing the user requirements specification. I think there's going to be a lot of {disfmarker} we have to help each other and work through this as a group, and I think we all, you know, {vocalsound} we like our kitty-cat and our rat and our fish, but I think we all have to like each other um to get this done. Uh as it says, we're gonna get individual instructions, but uh I don't think they allowed a lot of extra time, so I think a little bit of less of this and more at do will set us in good stead. Do you all agreeIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Alright. Um then I don't see any reason to prolong it and f we should finish this meeting at ni right now and go into other things. Alright, so this is the end of the first meeting.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: Thank you all. Marketing: Is this okayProject Manager: Uh yeah. Fine now. Oh, it's not liking us, it went that-a-way. Computer adjusting. Oh. Uh. Okay. {vocalsound} So. Right. You ready back there {vocalsound} Uh okay. Welcome everyone. Um this is the kick-off meeting for the day. Um we're the new group uh to create a new remote control for Real Reaction. As you can see our agenda is to open up the meeting, um become acquainted with each other, um have a little training on tools, uh create a plan, discuss things and and we only have twenty minut twenty five minutes total. Okay. The new remote control is to be original, trendy and user-friendly. That, Steph, is your part, is the user-friendliness. The originality um is gonna take all of us. Um the trendiness we'll probably go look at {disfmarker} for some marketing research information from you, Sarah. Um and we'll get on with it. Okay, so we'll have a functional design individual work um with meeting and then conceptual design t and then detailed design. Okay Right. Everybody's supposed to try out the whiteboard. Kate, why don't you try it first, if you can either bring your things with you, I guess {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh yeah, if I can pick up with all these bits and pieces, hang on.Project Manager: And while you're doing that we'll try and figure out how to hook these things on as well,'cause we're all gonna have to be able to walk around.Industrial Designer: Uh right, so you want an animal and the characteristics of that animal. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Do you have to be able to recognise what animal it is {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh I do not think so,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Are we all gonna draw a catProject Manager: I think

Summarize the discussion about the design of the remote control.

User Interface presumed that the remote control was only for the television, and suggested that the technical functions should be simple and removed the superfluous functions. They also suggested setting the theme of the remote control as Hello Kitty, and making it in bright colours.

Interface: A sharkIndustrial Designer: why didn't I think of fish That's even easier to draw than cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm {vocalsound} this is very representational fish. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Fine.Marketing: Um I like them because they're sleekProject Manager: Favourite characteristicsMarketing: and they have a lot of freedom but they also do n uh swim in groups,Project Manager:'Kay.Marketing: so.Project Manager: So they have team elements. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you have a favourite oneProject Manager: I'm afraid I'm with Steph. And I think your pen's running out of whatever. But I'm afraid I take the coward's way out, and the cat's looking the other way. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: He's hiding.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um cats are sometimes very independent. My parents had cats. Uh and they can mm decide for themselves what is best. Okay. Now um {vocalsound} we have to get down to the nitty-gritty of how to make this and this remote control has to be sold {disfmarker} um we're to sell it for twenty five Euros, with a profit aim ultimately of fifty million Euros. That tells you something about how many um we have to sell on an international scale. Um would be an awful lot of these, would be like what, a hundred million of them um to make twenty five Euros on each one and to make a total profit of fifty million. Um the production is to only cost twelve and a half Euros per item. Now if they cost twelve and a half, you're selling it for twenty five, you're making twelve and a half Euros each. Um and we're to make a profit of fifty million, that's t uh {disfmarker} can you do the maths and how many are we sellingMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah. {vocalsound} I was just wondering if that's the um {disfmarker} If fifty percent is normal {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mark-upMarketing: B yeah. Um I would think would be more like sixty percent. But um let me {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: I have two thoughts. One hundred, fifty percent.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: And and your question is how many do we have to sellProject Manager: Yes,'cause our market um is international and your problem is {disfmarker} has to do with marketing of {disfmarker} you know, you gotta know how many we're going to be selling to know how big a market you have to target and who is that.Marketing: At twenty five. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's um {disfmarker}Project Manager: To give you a pretty good idea of where you're looking.Marketing: So that's four million of themProject Manager: Something like that Okay.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: That's fifty million Euros. In order to make fifty million Euros, and you're only getting twelve and a half each {disfmarker}Marketing: And if we make {disfmarker} Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's a lot of selling. Two four {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Four million.Project Manager: To be fifty, be four million. You'd have to sell four million.Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: Okay Right. Experience with a remote control. Any of you use of remote control for a television or D_V_D_ or something You're both nodding,Industrial Designer: That that that's the sorta product we're talking about, one that will work for a {disfmarker} in a home environment, for a T_V_s and {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: all three. Well I've seen some remote controls that are for more than one device at a time, but I also have heard about them not working well or not well co-ordinated and you wind up working with this one for thi this three and then this one over here for another.User Interface: It is true that you always sit around {disfmarker} you know, you're sitting on your sofa and you wanna change something, there's five different remotes, and one for the D_V_D_ and one for the video and one for cable and one for whatever else.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm. Y yeah.Project Manager: And they don't always talk to each other.User Interface: But I presume this is t I presume this is just for television.Project Manager: Don't know. Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Are there any um ideas for the remote What would it be for and what group would be be for We have to think about that one.Marketing: We could make a Hello KittyIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: themed remote.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I think one in b bright colours would be good. {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think one that works would be good. {vocalsound}Marketing: We could totally go for the Japan-a-mation. Well I mean there's also the cachet that um uh the Japanese make great {vocalsound} products. Electrical {disfmarker} their industrial design is very good.User Interface: I think one that doesn't have lots of superfluous functions. Like I've got one at home that has well, apart from the obvious, channels, channel up, channel down, volume,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: you know, subtitles, mute, there's a lotta buttons that I've got no idea what they do, like {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, that's a really good point,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: because I think one of the things that {disfmarker} being somewhat computer literate, we tend to um go to menus and then make choices, you know, so if it's like an uh volume button, you know, you can go in and say mute or or volume. We don't need to have like the l the numbers if we also have uh uh channel up channel down.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Mm. {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Mm. We can make it smart like an iPod, you know, make everything menus.User Interface: Ooh, closing the meeting.Project Manager: Yeah. Um I know this sounds like it was very quick,User Interface: That was quick.Project Manager: but the I think that's the industrial design is the first one,Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: that's Kate, for the working design.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And user, that's you S Steph, for the technical functions design, and for marketing the user requirements specification. I think there's going to be a lot of {disfmarker} we have to help each other and work through this as a group, and I think we all, you know, {vocalsound} we like our kitty-cat and our rat and our fish, but I think we all have to like each other um to get this done. Uh as it says, we're gonna get individual instructions, but uh I don't think they allowed a lot of extra time, so I think a little bit of less of this and more at do will set us in good stead. Do you all agreeIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Alright. Um then I don't see any reason to prolong it and f we should finish this meeting at ni right now and go into other things. Alright, so this is the end of the first meeting.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: Thank you all. Marketing: Is this okayProject Manager: Uh yeah. Fine now. Oh, it's not liking us, it went that-a-way. Computer adjusting. Oh. Uh. Okay. {vocalsound} So. Right. You ready back there {vocalsound} Uh okay. Welcome everyone. Um this is the kick-off meeting for the day. Um we're the new group uh to create a new remote control for Real Reaction. As you can see our agenda is to open up the meeting, um become acquainted with each other, um have a little training on tools, uh create a plan, discuss things and and we only have twenty minut twenty five minutes total. Okay. The new remote control is to be original, trendy and user-friendly. That, Steph, is your part, is the user-friendliness. The originality um is gonna take all of us. Um the trendiness we'll probably go look at {disfmarker} for some marketing research information from you, Sarah. Um and we'll get on with it. Okay, so we'll have a functional design individual work um with meeting and then conceptual design t and then detailed design. Okay Right. Everybody's supposed to try out the whiteboard. Kate, why don't you try it first, if you can either bring your things with you, I guess {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh yeah, if I can pick up with all these bits and pieces, hang on.Project Manager: And while you're doing that we'll try and figure out how to hook these things on as well,'cause we're all gonna have to be able to walk around.Industrial Designer: Uh right, so you want an animal and the characteristics of that animal. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Do you have to be able to recognise what animal it is {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh I do not think so,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Are we all gonna draw a catProject Manager: I think

What did User Interface think about the technical function design of the new remote control

User Interface argued that the simplicity of the remote control of high importance, which means superfluous functions such as subtitles and mute should be removed from the remote control and be controlled through the menu.

Interface: A sharkIndustrial Designer: why didn't I think of fish That's even easier to draw than cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm {vocalsound} this is very representational fish. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Fine.Marketing: Um I like them because they're sleekProject Manager: Favourite characteristicsMarketing: and they have a lot of freedom but they also do n uh swim in groups,Project Manager:'Kay.Marketing: so.Project Manager: So they have team elements. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you have a favourite oneProject Manager: I'm afraid I'm with Steph. And I think your pen's running out of whatever. But I'm afraid I take the coward's way out, and the cat's looking the other way. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: He's hiding.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um cats are sometimes very independent. My parents had cats. Uh and they can mm decide for themselves what is best. Okay. Now um {vocalsound} we have to get down to the nitty-gritty of how to make this and this remote control has to be sold {disfmarker} um we're to sell it for twenty five Euros, with a profit aim ultimately of fifty million Euros. That tells you something about how many um we have to sell on an international scale. Um would be an awful lot of these, would be like what, a hundred million of them um to make twenty five Euros on each one and to make a total profit of fifty million. Um the production is to only cost twelve and a half Euros per item. Now if they cost twelve and a half, you're selling it for twenty five, you're making twelve and a half Euros each. Um and we're to make a profit of fifty million, that's t uh {disfmarker} can you do the maths and how many are we sellingMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah. {vocalsound} I was just wondering if that's the um {disfmarker} If fifty percent is normal {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mark-upMarketing: B yeah. Um I would think would be more like sixty percent. But um let me {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: I have two thoughts. One hundred, fifty percent.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: And and your question is how many do we have to sellProject Manager: Yes,'cause our market um is international and your problem is {disfmarker} has to do with marketing of {disfmarker} you know, you gotta know how many we're going to be selling to know how big a market you have to target and who is that.Marketing: At twenty five. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's um {disfmarker}Project Manager: To give you a pretty good idea of where you're looking.Marketing: So that's four million of themProject Manager: Something like that Okay.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: That's fifty million Euros. In order to make fifty million Euros, and you're only getting twelve and a half each {disfmarker}Marketing: And if we make {disfmarker} Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's a lot of selling. Two four {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Four million.Project Manager: To be fifty, be four million. You'd have to sell four million.Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: Okay Right. Experience with a remote control. Any of you use of remote control for a television or D_V_D_ or something You're both nodding,Industrial Designer: That that that's the sorta product we're talking about, one that will work for a {disfmarker} in a home environment, for a T_V_s and {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: all three. Well I've seen some remote controls that are for more than one device at a time, but I also have heard about them not working well or not well co-ordinated and you wind up working with this one for thi this three and then this one over here for another.User Interface: It is true that you always sit around Marketing: Is this okayProject Manager: Uh yeah. Fine now. Oh, it's not liking us, it went that-a-way. Computer adjusting. Oh. Uh. Okay. {vocalsound} So. Right. You ready back there {vocalsound} Uh okay. Welcome everyone. Um this is the kick-off meeting for the day. Um we're the new group uh to create a new remote control for Real Reaction. As you can see our agenda is to open up the meeting, um become acquainted with each other, um have a little training on tools, uh create a plan, discuss things and and we only have twenty minut twenty five minutes total. Okay. The new remote control is to be original, trendy and user-friendly. That, Steph, is your part, is the user-friendliness. The originality um is gonna take all of us. Um the trendiness we'll probably go look at {disfmarker} for some marketing research information from you, Sarah. Um and we'll get on with it. Okay, so we'll have a functional design individual work um with meeting and then conceptual design t and then detailed design. Okay Right. Everybody's supposed to try out the whiteboard. Kate, why don't you try it first, if you can either bring your things with you, I guess {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh yeah, if I can pick up with all these bits and pieces, hang on.Project Manager: And while you're doing that we'll try and figure out how to hook these things on as well,'cause we're all gonna have to be able to walk around.Industrial Designer: Uh right, so you want an animal and the characteristics of that animal. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Do you have to be able to recognise what animal it is {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh I do not think so,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Are we all gonna draw a catProject Manager: I think {disfmarker} you know, you're sitting on your sofa and you wanna change something, there's five different remotes, and one for the D_V_D_ and one for the video and one for cable and one for whatever else.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm. Y yeah.Project Manager: And they don't always talk to each other.User Interface: But I presume this is t I presume this is just for television.Project Manager: Don't know. Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Are there any um ideas for the remote What would it be for and what group would be be for We have to think about that one.Marketing: We could make a Hello KittyIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: themed remote.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I think one in b bright colours would be good. {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think one that works would be good. {vocalsound}Marketing: We could totally go for the Japan-a-mation. Well I mean there's also the cachet that um uh the Japanese make great {vocalsound} products. Electrical {disfmarker} their industrial design is very good.User Interface: I think one that doesn't have lots of superfluous functions. Like I've got one at home that has well, apart from the obvious, channels, channel up, channel down, volume,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: you know, subtitles, mute, there's a lotta buttons that I've got no idea what they do, like {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, that's a really good point,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: because I think one of the things that {disfmarker} being somewhat computer literate, we tend to um go to menus and then make choices, you know, so if it's like an uh volume button, you know, you can go in and say mute or or volume. We don't need to have like the l the numbers if we also have uh uh channel up channel down.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Mm. {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Mm. We can make it smart like an iPod, you know, make everything menus.User Interface: Ooh, closing the meeting.Project Manager: Yeah. Um I know this sounds like it was very quick,User Interface: That was quick.Project Manager: but the I think that's the industrial design is the first one,Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: that's Kate, for the working design.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And user, that's you S Steph, for the technical functions design, and for marketing the user requirements specification. I think there's going to be a lot of {disfmarker} we have to help each other and work through this as a group, and I think we all, you know, {vocalsound} we like our kitty-cat and our rat and our fish, but I think we all have to like each other um to get this done. Uh as it says, we're gonna get individual instructions, but uh I don't think they allowed a lot of extra time, so I think a little bit of less of this and more at do will set us in good stead. Do you all agreeIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Alright. Um then I don't see any reason to prolong it and f we should finish this meeting at ni right now and go into other things. Alright, so this is the end of the first meeting.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: Thank you all.

Why did User Interface agree with Industrial Designer's opinion when discussing the adapted product of the remote control

User Interface held the same opinion as Industrial Designer that different remote controls that were incompatible with each other brought inconvenience to users. User Interface still presumed that this remote control was only for television.

it smart like an iPod, you know, make everything menus.User Interface: Ooh, closing the meeting.Project Manager: Yeah. Um I know this sounds like it was very quick,User Interface: That was quick.Project Manager: but the I think that's the industrial design is the first one,Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: that's Kate, for the working design.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And user, that's you S Steph, for the technical functions design, and for marketing the user requirements specification. I think there's going to be a lot of {disfmarker} we have to help each other and work through this as a group, and I think we all, you know, {vocalsound} we like our kitty-cat and our rat and our fish, but I think we all have to like each other um to get this done. Uh as it says, we're gonna get individual instructions, but uh I don't think they allowed a lot of extra time, so I think a little bit of less of this and more at do will set us in good stead. Do you all agreeIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Alright. Um then I don't see any reason to prolong it and f we should finish this meeting at ni right now and go into other things. Alright, so this is the end of the first meeting.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: Thank you all. Interface: A sharkIndustrial Designer: why didn't I think of fish That's even easier to draw than cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm {vocalsound} this is very representational fish. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Fine.Marketing: Um I like them because they're sleekProject Manager: Favourite characteristicsMarketing: and they have a lot of freedom but they also do n uh swim in groups,Project Manager:'Kay.Marketing: so.Project Manager: So they have team elements. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you have a favourite oneProject Manager: I'm afraid I'm with Steph. And I think your pen's running out of whatever. But I'm afraid I take the coward's way out, and the cat's looking the other way. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: He's hiding.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um cats are sometimes very independent. My parents had cats. Uh and they can mm decide for themselves what is best. Okay. Now um {vocalsound} we have to get down to the nitty-gritty of how to make this and this remote control has to be sold {disfmarker} um we're to sell it for twenty five Euros, with a profit aim ultimately of fifty million Euros. That tells you something about how many um we have to sell on an international scale. Um would be an awful lot of these, would be like what, a hundred million of them um to make twenty five Euros on each one and to make a total profit of fifty million. Um the production is to only cost twelve and a half Euros per item. Now if they cost twelve and a half, you're selling it for twenty five, you're making twelve and a half Euros each. Um and we're to make a profit of fifty million, that's t uh {disfmarker} can you do the maths and how many are we sellingMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah. {vocalsound} I was just {disfmarker} you know, you're sitting on your sofa and you wanna change something, there's five different remotes, and one for the D_V_D_ and one for the video and one for cable and one for whatever else.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm. Y yeah.Project Manager: And they don't always talk to each other.User Interface: But I presume this is t I presume this is just for television.Project Manager: Don't know. Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Are there any um ideas for the remote What would it be for and what group would be be for We have to think about that one.Marketing: We could make a Hello KittyIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: themed remote.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I think one in b bright colours would be good. {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think one that works would be good. {vocalsound}Marketing: We could totally go for the Japan-a-mation. Well I mean there's also the cachet that um uh the Japanese make great {vocalsound} products. Electrical {disfmarker} their industrial design is very good.User Interface: I think one that doesn't have lots of superfluous functions. Like I've got one at home that has well, apart from the obvious, channels, channel up, channel down, volume,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: you know, subtitles, mute, there's a lotta buttons that I've got no idea what they do, like {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, that's a really good point,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: because I think one of the things that {disfmarker} being somewhat computer literate, we tend to um go to menus and then make choices, you know, so if it's like an uh volume button, you know, you can go in and say mute or or volume. We don't need to have like the l the numbers if we also have uh uh channel up channel down.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Mm. {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Mm. We can make wondering if that's the um {disfmarker} If fifty percent is normal {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mark-upMarketing: B yeah. Um I would think would be more like sixty percent. But um let me {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: I have two thoughts. One hundred, fifty percent.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: And and your question is how many do we have to sellProject Manager: Yes,'cause our market um is international and your problem is {disfmarker} has to do with marketing of {disfmarker} you know, you gotta know how many we're going to be selling to know how big a market you have to target and who is that.Marketing: At twenty five. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's um {disfmarker}Project Manager: To give you a pretty good idea of where you're looking.Marketing: So that's four million of themProject Manager: Something like that Okay.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: That's fifty million Euros. In order to make fifty million Euros, and you're only getting twelve and a half each {disfmarker}Marketing: And if we make {disfmarker} Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's a lot of selling. Two four {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Four million.Project Manager: To be fifty, be four million. You'd have to sell four million.Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: Okay Right. Experience with a remote control. Any of you use of remote control for a television or D_V_D_ or something You're both nodding,Industrial Designer: That that that's the sorta product we're talking about, one that will work for a {disfmarker} in a home environment, for a T_V_s and {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: all three. Well I've seen some remote controls that are for more than one device at a time, but I also have heard about them not working well or not well co-ordinated and you wind up working with this one for thi this three and then this one over here for another.User Interface: It is true that you always sit around Marketing: Is this okayProject Manager: Uh yeah. Fine now. Oh, it's not liking us, it went that-a-way. Computer adjusting. Oh. Uh. Okay. {vocalsound} So. Right. You ready back there {vocalsound} Uh okay. Welcome everyone. Um this is the kick-off meeting for the day. Um we're the new group uh to create a new remote control for Real Reaction. As you can see our agenda is to open up the meeting, um become acquainted with each other, um have a little training on tools, uh create a plan, discuss things and and we only have twenty minut twenty five minutes total. Okay. The new remote control is to be original, trendy and user-friendly. That, Steph, is your part, is the user-friendliness. The originality um is gonna take all of us. Um the trendiness we'll probably go look at {disfmarker} for some marketing research information from you, Sarah. Um and we'll get on with it. Okay, so we'll have a functional design individual work um with meeting and then conceptual design t and then detailed design. Okay Right. Everybody's supposed to try out the whiteboard. Kate, why don't you try it first, if you can either bring your things with you, I guess {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh yeah, if I can pick up with all these bits and pieces, hang on.Project Manager: And while you're doing that we'll try and figure out how to hook these things on as well,'cause we're all gonna have to be able to walk around.Industrial Designer: Uh right, so you want an animal and the characteristics of that animal. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Do you have to be able to recognise what animal it is {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh I do not think so,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Are we all gonna draw a catProject Manager: I think

Summarize the whole meeting.

Project Manager introduced the agenda of the meeting, and the group became acquainted with each other. The selling target of the remote control would be set as four million. The group discussed industrial design, working design including the theme of Hello Kitty and bright colours. They also decided that the remote control was only for television, and its technical functions must be simple and marketing the user requirements specification.

the backlight in a phone.Industrial Designer: Okay.Marketing: Like a phone, yeah yeah.Project Manager: Okay cool.Marketing: Whereas with phones, people charge them once a week.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: We're gonna need to put in a really good battery so people don't have to charge their r remote control every few days.Industrial Designer: Um that's why I think the option of the the kinetic thing which basically means as long as you shake it like a watch, like an automatic watchProject Manager: Mm.Marketing: But are people gonna wanna shake their movie controllerIndustrial Designer: um it's probably sensitive enough when you fiddle it.Marketing: Right.Industrial Designer: So you could trigger that to a light,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Sure.Industrial Designer: like I said the bouncing ball thing, or you could trigger that to use that to power the lightProject Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: as opposed to {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: so when they pick it up, right, and then that that sorta triggers theMarketing: Right.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: RightIndustrial Designer: glowingness.Project Manager: okay um well {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay, great.Project Manager: let's just go right back to the marketing ideas for a start, and just giving an id idea on the time, we've got about fifteen minutes to play with at most. So um yeah so just t to bear in mind that the ultimate goal of this meeting is to reach an {gap} decision on the the the concepts of the product.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: So back to your idea about um incorporating the idea of like fruit and veg, and the corporate colour, and things like that.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um I mean what does everybody think about {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Does anybody have any ideas of {disfmarker} about how we can fit all that in together I mean that's kind of the user interface type of thing, Okay.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Cool.User Interface: That's it.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Great. {vocalsound} Lots of good information there.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah that that was very good,Industrial Designer: Mm'kay um.Project Manager: and uh now with David.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I think I'm cool.Marketing: It's a shame the cable wasn't just in the middle {gap} {vocalsound} of the table,Project Manager: I know it'd be handy, wouldn't it.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: huh Just um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oops.Project Manager: Do y do you wanna sit in the the line of sight of this um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah okay. Let me just get this going first.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Ah there it is. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It takes a second, doesn't itIndustrial Designer:'Kay, that should be it. Okay um I guess the same thing again, I started with something very basic.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So just so you guys have some idea of what's involved in my process, um and then you can just work through itMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and we'll either modify it or start from scratch um depending on what your needs are. Um the components are exactly the same.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Um I think, like what you guys said, um the most input that's needed is basically in the user interface. The rest of the components um they do have an impact in terms of cost and complexity. Um like you said time to market was a problem, um and how many components are physically in there in cost. And the power is basically a factor of that. Um and the lower components, the power, the logic, the transmitter, and the infrared, um they affect you in terms of the size of your device, um and that would have some inte impact on how y I think more how you hold rather of it like I dunno like here, in with the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: That that might have one problem in terms of um in terms of whether you're left handed or you're right handed you might be locking yourself in.Marketing: It would get bumped, it's {disfmarker} doesn't really fit with your hand.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Or maybe just fit it in like down the middle here.Industrial Designer: Could I just could I just jump in and suggest something quicklyProject Manager: Okay. Right I'm gonna have to {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: A jog diProject Manager: I'm really gonna have to hurry you on here'cause we're we're actually over time.Marketing: YeahProject Manager: Um is there anything anybody's unsure aboutMarketing: . It's kind of yeah {disfmarker}Project Manager: Just for {disfmarker} in closing just {disfmarker} the next meeting's gonna be in thirty minutes, and so you can see in the screen here what each of you are gonna hopefully be doing, uh I know that the designers are gonna be working with Play-doh on that.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So um {vocalsound} that'll be that'll be good.Marketing: Huh.Project Manager: Um and I'll get the the minutes up as soon as possible. Anything at all you think we haven't discussed that we need to Is everybody kind of happy about what they're gonna be doingMarketing: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Um I think one thing would be the jog dial'cause that's gonna have quite a big impact on the thing um {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah I think the jog dial, you know it just after you drew that, what if it was flat and you just spun it,Industrial Designer: Yeah that's what I was thinking the {disfmarker}Marketing: that'd be great.Industrial Designer: a slide, because then you you don't have to put the hand.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I think incorporating a logo is to see {disfmarker} sorta see how this fits in with the overall vision. Um so I've tried to take a whole lot of market research and summarise it for us, and then ide identify uh trends that are are sort of in sync and are important to our our uh p project plan that we have so far, and then uh initiate a kind of discussion on design options so that it sorta helps us to to narrow in on on aspects that will inform other uh other elements of the of the project. Does that make sense, tha that sort of strategyIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I thought that that will impact on the rest of what we do, so that's why I suggested we get in this.Project Manager: Aye a fair point definitely.Marketing: Okay so out of um different uh figures and ratings ob uh of people in general, um consumers in general, the number one thing that was found was that uh the br t television remote control, a fancy look and feel, okay, and not, it specified, not a functional look or or feel, uh b f f fancy.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um however, this is where we kinda have to be very, I think, creative about it. Number two was that it be innovative. Okay so that tells me that we have to find a way to be innovative without a adding just unnecessary um sort of functional bits to it. Uh and third priority uh for ease of use, so again that kind of gives us a general picture of how it has to be, um {vocalsound} quite user friendly while still having technology. So it {disfmarker} I'll just say right away as a bit of a foreshadowing into how we proceed with this in if we just had um this {gap} here, had a sorta background yellow,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh.User Interface: and then have sort of a nice bold colour for the buttons.Project Manager: Okay cool. Um and also I mean how are we going to incorporate the slogan in The fact that it talks to you, I mean it might be quite cool if when you first start using it it says, what is it, putting fashion into electronics or something, I dunno. Or when you like {disfmarker} or if you turn it off or something {disfmarker} if it can speak if it could actually say the slogan it might be a bit more powerful than just having it written on it somewhere.User Interface: I think that might scare me.Project Manager: I d I d any thoughts on that at allUser Interface: I think that'd probably scare me. You turn it on your control possessed s {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I know. Um unless an a I mean if you {disfmarker} also would that work if we wanted to incorporate um an L_C_D_ display, where would we put that Would we put that on the inside or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Do we need an L_C_D_ displayUser Interface: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: What what's the functionality of thatProject Manager: It's bound to increase the cost of it a lot, I would've thought.Industrial Designer: Yeah but the question is what are we using it {disfmarker}Marketing: What would it achieveIndustrial Designer: what would we what would we achieve from it Putting in lights is cheap but putting in an L_C_D_ panel just to make it glow is a bit of a {disfmarker}Marketing: Well {disfmarker} L_C_ well I'd {disfmarker} when you used to mention the L_C_D_ I'd think I wonder what that would be about. And the th the thing

Summarize the presentation on market trends.

Marketing presented on market trends and suggested strategies including innovation in a fancy look and feel of the remote control, the European fashion theme in fruit and vegetable shapes as well as a soft and spongy material trend.

the backlight in a phone.Industrial Designer: Okay.Marketing: Like a phone, yeah yeah.Project Manager: Okay cool.Marketing: Whereas with phones, people charge them once a week.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: We're gonna need to put in a really good battery so people don't have to charge their r remote control every few days.Industrial Designer: Um that's why I think the option of the the kinetic thing which basically means as long as you shake it like a watch, like an automatic watchProject Manager: Mm.Marketing: But are people gonna wanna shake their movie controllerIndustrial Designer: um it's probably sensitive enough when you fiddle it.Marketing: Right.Industrial Designer: So you could trigger that to a light,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Sure.Industrial Designer: like I said the bouncing ball thing, or you could trigger that to use that to power the lightProject Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: as opposed to {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: so when they pick it up, right, and then that that sorta triggers theMarketing: Right.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: RightIndustrial Designer: glowingness.Project Manager: okay um well {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay, great.Project Manager: let's just go right back to the marketing ideas for a start, and just giving an id idea on the time, we've got about fifteen minutes to play with at most. So um yeah so just t to bear in mind that the ultimate goal of this meeting is to reach an {gap} decision on the the the concepts of the product.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: So back to your idea about um incorporating the idea of like fruit and veg, and the corporate colour, and things like that.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um I mean what does everybody think about {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Does anybody have any ideas of {disfmarker} about how we can fit all that in together I mean that's kind of the user interface type of thing, if we just had um this {gap} here, had a sorta background yellow,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh.User Interface: and then have sort of a nice bold colour for the buttons.Project Manager: Okay cool. Um and also I mean how are we going to incorporate the slogan in The fact that it talks to you, I mean it might be quite cool if when you first start using it it says, what is it, putting fashion into electronics or something, I dunno. Or when you like {disfmarker} or if you turn it off or something {disfmarker} if it can speak if it could actually say the slogan it might be a bit more powerful than just having it written on it somewhere.User Interface: I think that might scare me.Project Manager: I d I d any thoughts on that at allUser Interface: I think that'd probably scare me. You turn it on your control possessed s {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I know. Um unless an a I mean if you {disfmarker} also would that work if we wanted to incorporate um an L_C_D_ display, where would we put that Would we put that on the inside or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Do we need an L_C_D_ displayUser Interface: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: What what's the functionality of thatProject Manager: It's bound to increase the cost of it a lot, I would've thought.Industrial Designer: Yeah but the question is what are we using it {disfmarker}Marketing: What would it achieveIndustrial Designer: what would we what would we achieve from it Putting in lights is cheap but putting in an L_C_D_ panel just to make it glow is a bit of a {disfmarker}Marketing: Well {disfmarker} L_C_ well I'd {disfmarker} when you used to mention the L_C_D_ I'd think I wonder what that would be about. And the th the thing that's becomes the most accessible thing in front of {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Uh but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: But that's not a bad thing is itProject Manager: Just {disfmarker}Marketing: Because when you think about it, the alternative is to go push the button.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Jog dials are much easier than that.Project Manager: Okay um right well wouldn't it {disfmarker}Marketing: You just roll.Project Manager: we do need to make a decision on whether we want to incorporate a jog dial in nice and quickly. Um I'm all for them actually, I think they're quite {disfmarker} you know th very quick to m to use.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: So does anybody oppose the idea of of incorporating one into the design at all No. And the other thing was um can we think of any way of getting the slogan into this thingMarketing: Yeah like I mean if we if if we keep coming back to this board here,Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: I wouldn't be surprised if we could take this idea, imagine that, I dunno, that it's within the shape of the hand, it's quite small {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh-huh ooh okay, we really gotta wrap upMarketing: I dunno.Project Manager: so yeah.Marketing: Yeah. It's small, and that we've got like the the l slogan somewhere like on the casing at the side,Project Manager: Okay well if we can do that, great.Marketing: and that yeah {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah okay.Marketing: well I mean isn't that what we just h said said we s just have to decide nowProject Manager: Yeah let's let's try and get the slogan on there um, and {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So you wanna expand the shape of the {disfmarker}Marketing: And then like a jo And then like a jog dial somewhere that fits in with the shape Could we use like a jog dial, like a nice just sort of round, somewhere on it where you just roll itIndustrial Designer: The question is when you're rolling it, how do you wanna roll itMarketing: Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Do you want'em to roll it like that Do you want'em to roll it like that'Cause in a mouse your hand's in a position to roll it,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: whereas the other thing about having it jog dial this way, it tends to get moved accidentally.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah if you are holding it in your hand you could you could do that, couldn't youMarketing: Well why don't we do it like a mouse thenProject Manager: If you're holding it in your hand you could {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: That's a very unnatural motion to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Do you thinkIndustrial Designer: yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Can you imagine you have to scroll a lot. Um it might work for volume, and maybe some of the brightness controls and stuff like that,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but not for channels right.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: If you have a Telewest box you've got like, you don't have to buy all the channels,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: you've about fifty channels, can you imagine trying to {vocalsound}.Project Manager: YeahMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: okay okayIndustrial Designer: Um and I don't think having that you know too quick too slow kin it's confusing to the {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, sure.Project Manager: um {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: Well, but then for um for skipping a large amount of channels you do have to uh to skip the channel button, the number part.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: I dunno. But users tend to tend to want to use thatProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: and once they lose out on the user experience they're like {disfmarker} Because we'll have to make some decisions about stuff, right {vocalsound}.Marketing: Yeah, cool.Project Manager: So if you wanna take this.Marketing: Why don't I get that {vocalsound} Hmm.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Screwed in quite tightly. Uh what did {disfmarker} uh how did we leave it with speech recognition now We {disfmarker} did we say we were gonna try {disfmarker} maybe incorporate it but we hadn't made a definite decision on thatIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Right. Oh I should also point out that um the you know the kind of final objective of this meeting is to reach a decision on the concepts of the product.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: So um {vocalsound} that's kind of the end result hopefully.Marketing: Okay. Um alright so c is it function F_ eightProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh-huh. Hopefully appear in a wee second.Marketing: Hmm. Come on. I think it's working.Project Manager: Up there we go.Marketing: Okay great s so let me just start this. {vocalsound} Okay great. So um {vocalsound} uh s move on. Uh-huh {disfmarker} oh where'd it all goProject Manager: {vocalsound} Oh no.Marketing: It's not good. Okay lemme just see where I can find it. This looks more like it. I think I just opened up the template.Project Manager: Oh right.Marketing: Sorry about that. Okay alright so let's have a look here.Project Manager: Here we go.Marketing: Okay so this was the method that um I've taken. Uh basically what I wanna do here, before we get into it uh too far, is I want to show you all the background information I have that I think we need to acknowledge if we want this to be successful.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And uh and then sorta g go through some of the way that I've dealt with that information, and then sort of bring us all together into it

What did Marketing think of technology innovation when presenting the market trend

Marketing mentioned that market research emphasized technology innovation which was the ease of use in the functionality. So Marketing suggested when they focused on the trend of fruit and vegetable themes, they should know how to fit in with something which was not specifically electronics and how to quickly create a remote in fruit shape.

the backlight in a phone.Industrial Designer: Okay.Marketing: Like a phone, yeah yeah.Project Manager: Okay cool.Marketing: Whereas with phones, people charge them once a week.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: We're gonna need to put in a really good battery so people don't have to charge their r remote control every few days.Industrial Designer: Um that's why I think the option of the the kinetic thing which basically means as long as you shake it like a watch, like an automatic watchProject Manager: Mm.Marketing: But are people gonna wanna shake their movie controllerIndustrial Designer: um it's probably sensitive enough when you fiddle it.Marketing: Right.Industrial Designer: So you could trigger that to a light,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Sure.Industrial Designer: like I said the bouncing ball thing, or you could trigger that to use that to power the lightProject Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: as opposed to {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: so when they pick it up, right, and then that that sorta triggers theMarketing: Right.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: RightIndustrial Designer: glowingness.Project Manager: okay um well {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay, great.Project Manager: let's just go right back to the marketing ideas for a start, and just giving an id idea on the time, we've got about fifteen minutes to play with at most. So um yeah so just t to bear in mind that the ultimate goal of this meeting is to reach an {gap} decision on the the the concepts of the product.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: So back to your idea about um incorporating the idea of like fruit and veg, and the corporate colour, and things like that.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um I mean what does everybody think about {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Does anybody have any ideas of {disfmarker} about how we can fit all that in together I mean that's kind of the user interface type of thing, Could we use like a jog dial, like a nice just sort of round, somewhere on it where you just roll itIndustrial Designer: The question is when you're rolling it, how do you wanna roll itMarketing: Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Do you want'em to roll it like that Do you want'em to roll it like that'Cause in a mouse your hand's in a position to roll it,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: whereas the other thing about having it jog dial this way, it tends to get moved accidentally.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah if you are holding it in your hand you could you could do that, couldn't youMarketing: Well why don't we do it like a mouse thenProject Manager: If you're holding it in your hand you could {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: That's a very unnatural motion to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Do you thinkIndustrial Designer: yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Can you imagine you have to scroll a lot. Um it might work for volume, and maybe some of the brightness controls and stuff like that,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but not for channels right.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: If you have a Telewest box you've got like, you don't have to buy all the channels,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: you've about fifty channels, can you imagine trying to {vocalsound}.Project Manager: YeahMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: okay okayIndustrial Designer: Um and I don't think having that you know too quick too slow kin it's confusing to the {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, sure.Project Manager: um {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: Well, but then for um for skipping a large amount of channels you do have to uh to skip the channel button, the number part.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: I dunno. But users tend to tend to want to use thatProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: and once they lose out on the user experience they're like {disfmarker} Because if we just had um this {gap} here, had a sorta background yellow,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh.User Interface: and then have sort of a nice bold colour for the buttons.Project Manager: Okay cool. Um and also I mean how are we going to incorporate the slogan in The fact that it talks to you, I mean it might be quite cool if when you first start using it it says, what is it, putting fashion into electronics or something, I dunno. Or when you like {disfmarker} or if you turn it off or something {disfmarker} if it can speak if it could actually say the slogan it might be a bit more powerful than just having it written on it somewhere.User Interface: I think that might scare me.Project Manager: I d I d any thoughts on that at allUser Interface: I think that'd probably scare me. You turn it on your control possessed s {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I know. Um unless an a I mean if you {disfmarker} also would that work if we wanted to incorporate um an L_C_D_ display, where would we put that Would we put that on the inside or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Do we need an L_C_D_ displayUser Interface: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: What what's the functionality of thatProject Manager: It's bound to increase the cost of it a lot, I would've thought.Industrial Designer: Yeah but the question is what are we using it {disfmarker}Marketing: What would it achieveIndustrial Designer: what would we what would we achieve from it Putting in lights is cheap but putting in an L_C_D_ panel just to make it glow is a bit of a {disfmarker}Marketing: Well {disfmarker} L_C_ well I'd {disfmarker} when you used to mention the L_C_D_ I'd think I wonder what that would be about. And the th the thing to see {disfmarker} sorta see how this fits in with the overall vision. Um so I've tried to take a whole lot of market research and summarise it for us, and then ide identify uh trends that are are sort of in sync and are important to our our uh p project plan that we have so far, and then uh initiate a kind of discussion on design options so that it sorta helps us to to narrow in on on aspects that will inform other uh other elements of the of the project. Does that make sense, tha that sort of strategyIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I thought that that will impact on the rest of what we do, so that's why I suggested we get in this.Project Manager: Aye a fair point definitely.Marketing: Okay so out of um different uh figures and ratings ob uh of people in general, um consumers in general, the number one thing that was found was that uh the br t television remote control, a fancy look and feel, okay, and not, it specified, not a functional look or or feel, uh b f f fancy.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um however, this is where we kinda have to be very, I think, creative about it. Number two was that it be innovative. Okay so that tells me that we have to find a way to be innovative without a adding just unnecessary um sort of functional bits to it. Uh and third priority uh for ease of use, so again that kind of gives us a general picture of how it has to be, um {vocalsound} quite user friendly while still having technology. So it {disfmarker} I'll just say right away as a bit of a foreshadowing into how we proceed with this in we'll have to make some decisions about stuff, right {vocalsound}.Marketing: Yeah, cool.Project Manager: So if you wanna take this.Marketing: Why don't I get that {vocalsound} Hmm.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Screwed in quite tightly. Uh what did {disfmarker} uh how did we leave it with speech recognition now We {disfmarker} did we say we were gonna try {disfmarker} maybe incorporate it but we hadn't made a definite decision on thatIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Right. Oh I should also point out that um the you know the kind of final objective of this meeting is to reach a decision on the concepts of the product.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: So um {vocalsound} that's kind of the end result hopefully.Marketing: Okay. Um alright so c is it function F_ eightProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh-huh. Hopefully appear in a wee second.Marketing: Hmm. Come on. I think it's working.Project Manager: Up there we go.Marketing: Okay great s so let me just start this. {vocalsound} Okay great. So um {vocalsound} uh s move on. Uh-huh {disfmarker} oh where'd it all goProject Manager: {vocalsound} Oh no.Marketing: It's not good. Okay lemme just see where I can find it. This looks more like it. I think I just opened up the template.Project Manager: Oh right.Marketing: Sorry about that. Okay alright so let's have a look here.Project Manager: Here we go.Marketing: Okay so this was the method that um I've taken. Uh basically what I wanna do here, before we get into it uh too far, is I want to show you all the background information I have that I think we need to acknowledge if we want this to be successful.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And uh and then sorta g go through some of the way that I've dealt with that information, and then sort of bring us all together into it

Why did Marketing propose lemon or lime when proposing the market trend

Because Marketing recommended the group took some features of Mac or iPod and made it a more comfortable type when associating people in terms of texture, shape, and colours. Marketing also suggested they could incorporate gimmicky features that buttons would light up when touching the button.

the backlight in a phone.Industrial Designer: Okay.Marketing: Like a phone, yeah yeah.Project Manager: Okay cool.Marketing: Whereas with phones, people charge them once a week.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: We're gonna need to put in a really good battery so people don't have to charge their r remote control every few days.Industrial Designer: Um that's why I think the option of the the kinetic thing which basically means as long as you shake it like a watch, like an automatic watchProject Manager: Mm.Marketing: But are people gonna wanna shake their movie controllerIndustrial Designer: um it's probably sensitive enough when you fiddle it.Marketing: Right.Industrial Designer: So you could trigger that to a light,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Sure.Industrial Designer: like I said the bouncing ball thing, or you could trigger that to use that to power the lightProject Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: as opposed to {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: so when they pick it up, right, and then that that sorta triggers theMarketing: Right.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: RightIndustrial Designer: glowingness.Project Manager: okay um well {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay, great.Project Manager: let's just go right back to the marketing ideas for a start, and just giving an id idea on the time, we've got about fifteen minutes to play with at most. So um yeah so just t to bear in mind that the ultimate goal of this meeting is to reach an {gap} decision on the the the concepts of the product.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: So back to your idea about um incorporating the idea of like fruit and veg, and the corporate colour, and things like that.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um I mean what does everybody think about {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Does anybody have any ideas of {disfmarker} about how we can fit all that in together I mean that's kind of the user interface type of thing, Okay.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Cool.User Interface: That's it.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Great. {vocalsound} Lots of good information there.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah that that was very good,Industrial Designer: Mm'kay um.Project Manager: and uh now with David.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I think I'm cool.Marketing: It's a shame the cable wasn't just in the middle {gap} {vocalsound} of the table,Project Manager: I know it'd be handy, wouldn't it.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: huh Just um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oops.Project Manager: Do y do you wanna sit in the the line of sight of this um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah okay. Let me just get this going first.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Ah there it is. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It takes a second, doesn't itIndustrial Designer:'Kay, that should be it. Okay um I guess the same thing again, I started with something very basic.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So just so you guys have some idea of what's involved in my process, um and then you can just work through itMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and we'll either modify it or start from scratch um depending on what your needs are. Um the components are exactly the same.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Um I think, like what you guys said, um the most input that's needed is basically in the user interface. The rest of the components um they do have an impact in terms of cost and complexity. Um like you said time to market was a problem, um and how many components are physically in there in cost. And the power is basically a factor of that. Um and the lower components, the power, the logic, the transmitter, and the infrared, um they affect you in terms of the size of your device, um and that would have some inte impact on how y I think more how you hold rather to see {disfmarker} sorta see how this fits in with the overall vision. Um so I've tried to take a whole lot of market research and summarise it for us, and then ide identify uh trends that are are sort of in sync and are important to our our uh p project plan that we have so far, and then uh initiate a kind of discussion on design options so that it sorta helps us to to narrow in on on aspects that will inform other uh other elements of the of the project. Does that make sense, tha that sort of strategyIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I thought that that will impact on the rest of what we do, so that's why I suggested we get in this.Project Manager: Aye a fair point definitely.Marketing: Okay so out of um different uh figures and ratings ob uh of people in general, um consumers in general, the number one thing that was found was that uh the br t television remote control, a fancy look and feel, okay, and not, it specified, not a functional look or or feel, uh b f f fancy.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um however, this is where we kinda have to be very, I think, creative about it. Number two was that it be innovative. Okay so that tells me that we have to find a way to be innovative without a adding just unnecessary um sort of functional bits to it. Uh and third priority uh for ease of use, so again that kind of gives us a general picture of how it has to be, um {vocalsound} quite user friendly while still having technology. So it {disfmarker} I'll just say right away as a bit of a foreshadowing into how we proceed with this in we'll have to make some decisions about stuff, right {vocalsound}.Marketing: Yeah, cool.Project Manager: So if you wanna take this.Marketing: Why don't I get that {vocalsound} Hmm.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Screwed in quite tightly. Uh what did {disfmarker} uh how did we leave it with speech recognition now We {disfmarker} did we say we were gonna try {disfmarker} maybe incorporate it but we hadn't made a definite decision on thatIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Right. Oh I should also point out that um the you know the kind of final objective of this meeting is to reach a decision on the concepts of the product.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: So um {vocalsound} that's kind of the end result hopefully.Marketing: Okay. Um alright so c is it function F_ eightProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh-huh. Hopefully appear in a wee second.Marketing: Hmm. Come on. I think it's working.Project Manager: Up there we go.Marketing: Okay great s so let me just start this. {vocalsound} Okay great. So um {vocalsound} uh s move on. Uh-huh {disfmarker} oh where'd it all goProject Manager: {vocalsound} Oh no.Marketing: It's not good. Okay lemme just see where I can find it. This looks more like it. I think I just opened up the template.Project Manager: Oh right.Marketing: Sorry about that. Okay alright so let's have a look here.Project Manager: Here we go.Marketing: Okay so this was the method that um I've taken. Uh basically what I wanna do here, before we get into it uh too far, is I want to show you all the background information I have that I think we need to acknowledge if we want this to be successful.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And uh and then sorta g go through some of the way that I've dealt with that information, and then sort of bring us all together into it of it like I dunno like here, in with the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: That that might have one problem in terms of um in terms of whether you're left handed or you're right handed you might be locking yourself in.Marketing: It would get bumped, it's {disfmarker} doesn't really fit with your hand.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Or maybe just fit it in like down the middle here.Industrial Designer: Could I just could I just jump in and suggest something quicklyProject Manager: Okay. Right I'm gonna have to {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: A jog diProject Manager: I'm really gonna have to hurry you on here'cause we're we're actually over time.Marketing: YeahProject Manager: Um is there anything anybody's unsure aboutMarketing: . It's kind of yeah {disfmarker}Project Manager: Just for {disfmarker} in closing just {disfmarker} the next meeting's gonna be in thirty minutes, and so you can see in the screen here what each of you are gonna hopefully be doing, uh I know that the designers are gonna be working with Play-doh on that.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So um {vocalsound} that'll be that'll be good.Marketing: Huh.Project Manager: Um and I'll get the the minutes up as soon as possible. Anything at all you think we haven't discussed that we need to Is everybody kind of happy about what they're gonna be doingMarketing: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Um I think one thing would be the jog dial'cause that's gonna have quite a big impact on the thing um {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah I think the jog dial, you know it just after you drew that, what if it was flat and you just spun it,Industrial Designer: Yeah that's what I was thinking the {disfmarker}Marketing: that'd be great.Industrial Designer: a slide, because then you you don't have to put the hand.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I think incorporating a logo is

Summarize the decision discussion about remote concepts.

The group discussed the final remote concepts after three presentations. Therefore, they decided to have a small-sized remote with the speaker, the power with the chip on print, a transparent case, and rubber incorporated into the case. However, they would not go for an LCD partly because they needed an input device instead of output and the cost would be added.

the backlight in a phone.Industrial Designer: Okay.Marketing: Like a phone, yeah yeah.Project Manager: Okay cool.Marketing: Whereas with phones, people charge them once a week.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: We're gonna need to put in a really good battery so people don't have to charge their r remote control every few days.Industrial Designer: Um that's why I think the option of the the kinetic thing which basically means as long as you shake it like a watch, like an automatic watchProject Manager: Mm.Marketing: But are people gonna wanna shake their movie controllerIndustrial Designer: um it's probably sensitive enough when you fiddle it.Marketing: Right.Industrial Designer: So you could trigger that to a light,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Sure.Industrial Designer: like I said the bouncing ball thing, or you could trigger that to use that to power the lightProject Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: as opposed to {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: so when they pick it up, right, and then that that sorta triggers theMarketing: Right.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: RightIndustrial Designer: glowingness.Project Manager: okay um well {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay, great.Project Manager: let's just go right back to the marketing ideas for a start, and just giving an id idea on the time, we've got about fifteen minutes to play with at most. So um yeah so just t to bear in mind that the ultimate goal of this meeting is to reach an {gap} decision on the the the concepts of the product.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: So back to your idea about um incorporating the idea of like fruit and veg, and the corporate colour, and things like that.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um I mean what does everybody think about {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Does anybody have any ideas of {disfmarker} about how we can fit all that in together I mean that's kind of the user interface type of thing, Okay.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Cool.User Interface: That's it.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Great. {vocalsound} Lots of good information there.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah that that was very good,Industrial Designer: Mm'kay um.Project Manager: and uh now with David.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I think I'm cool.Marketing: It's a shame the cable wasn't just in the middle {gap} {vocalsound} of the table,Project Manager: I know it'd be handy, wouldn't it.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: huh Just um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oops.Project Manager: Do y do you wanna sit in the the line of sight of this um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah okay. Let me just get this going first.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Ah there it is. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It takes a second, doesn't itIndustrial Designer:'Kay, that should be it. Okay um I guess the same thing again, I started with something very basic.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So just so you guys have some idea of what's involved in my process, um and then you can just work through itMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and we'll either modify it or start from scratch um depending on what your needs are. Um the components are exactly the same.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Um I think, like what you guys said, um the most input that's needed is basically in the user interface. The rest of the components um they do have an impact in terms of cost and complexity. Um like you said time to market was a problem, um and how many components are physically in there in cost. And the power is basically a factor of that. Um and the lower components, the power, the logic, the transmitter, and the infrared, um they affect you in terms of the size of your device, um and that would have some inte impact on how y I think more how you hold rather to see {disfmarker} sorta see how this fits in with the overall vision. Um so I've tried to take a whole lot of market research and summarise it for us, and then ide identify uh trends that are are sort of in sync and are important to our our uh p project plan that we have so far, and then uh initiate a kind of discussion on design options so that it sorta helps us to to narrow in on on aspects that will inform other uh other elements of the of the project. Does that make sense, tha that sort of strategyIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I thought that that will impact on the rest of what we do, so that's why I suggested we get in this.Project Manager: Aye a fair point definitely.Marketing: Okay so out of um different uh figures and ratings ob uh of people in general, um consumers in general, the number one thing that was found was that uh the br t television remote control, a fancy look and feel, okay, and not, it specified, not a functional look or or feel, uh b f f fancy.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um however, this is where we kinda have to be very, I think, creative about it. Number two was that it be innovative. Okay so that tells me that we have to find a way to be innovative without a adding just unnecessary um sort of functional bits to it. Uh and third priority uh for ease of use, so again that kind of gives us a general picture of how it has to be, um {vocalsound} quite user friendly while still having technology. So it {disfmarker} I'll just say right away as a bit of a foreshadowing into how we proceed with this in Could we use like a jog dial, like a nice just sort of round, somewhere on it where you just roll itIndustrial Designer: The question is when you're rolling it, how do you wanna roll itMarketing: Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Do you want'em to roll it like that Do you want'em to roll it like that'Cause in a mouse your hand's in a position to roll it,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: whereas the other thing about having it jog dial this way, it tends to get moved accidentally.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah if you are holding it in your hand you could you could do that, couldn't youMarketing: Well why don't we do it like a mouse thenProject Manager: If you're holding it in your hand you could {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: That's a very unnatural motion to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Do you thinkIndustrial Designer: yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Can you imagine you have to scroll a lot. Um it might work for volume, and maybe some of the brightness controls and stuff like that,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but not for channels right.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: If you have a Telewest box you've got like, you don't have to buy all the channels,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: you've about fifty channels, can you imagine trying to {vocalsound}.Project Manager: YeahMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: okay okayIndustrial Designer: Um and I don't think having that you know too quick too slow kin it's confusing to the {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, sure.Project Manager: um {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: Well, but then for um for skipping a large amount of channels you do have to uh to skip the channel button, the number part.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: I dunno. But users tend to tend to want to use thatProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: and once they lose out on the user experience they're like {disfmarker} Because that's becomes the most accessible thing in front of {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Uh but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: But that's not a bad thing is itProject Manager: Just {disfmarker}Marketing: Because when you think about it, the alternative is to go push the button.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Jog dials are much easier than that.Project Manager: Okay um right well wouldn't it {disfmarker}Marketing: You just roll.Project Manager: we do need to make a decision on whether we want to incorporate a jog dial in nice and quickly. Um I'm all for them actually, I think they're quite {disfmarker} you know th very quick to m to use.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: So does anybody oppose the idea of of incorporating one into the design at all No. And the other thing was um can we think of any way of getting the slogan into this thingMarketing: Yeah like I mean if we if if we keep coming back to this board here,Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: I wouldn't be surprised if we could take this idea, imagine that, I dunno, that it's within the shape of the hand, it's quite small {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh-huh ooh okay, we really gotta wrap upMarketing: I dunno.Project Manager: so yeah.Marketing: Yeah. It's small, and that we've got like the the l slogan somewhere like on the casing at the side,Project Manager: Okay well if we can do that, great.Marketing: and that yeah {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah okay.Marketing: well I mean isn't that what we just h said said we s just have to decide nowProject Manager: Yeah let's let's try and get the slogan on there um, and {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So you wanna expand the shape of the {disfmarker}Marketing: And then like a jo And then like a jog dial somewhere that fits in with the shape

Why did the group decide not to go for an LCD when discussing the remote concepts

When discussing the LCD functionality, the group found that it was not necessary to have it because they had the speaker and no need for a talk-back for the remote. Also, the LCD tended to be output as opposed to an input and it would be added to the cost of the remote, so the group agreed not to go for an LCD.

the backlight in a phone.Industrial Designer: Okay.Marketing: Like a phone, yeah yeah.Project Manager: Okay cool.Marketing: Whereas with phones, people charge them once a week.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: We're gonna need to put in a really good battery so people don't have to charge their r remote control every few days.Industrial Designer: Um that's why I think the option of the the kinetic thing which basically means as long as you shake it like a watch, like an automatic watchProject Manager: Mm.Marketing: But are people gonna wanna shake their movie controllerIndustrial Designer: um it's probably sensitive enough when you fiddle it.Marketing: Right.Industrial Designer: So you could trigger that to a light,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Sure.Industrial Designer: like I said the bouncing ball thing, or you could trigger that to use that to power the lightProject Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: as opposed to {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: so when they pick it up, right, and then that that sorta triggers theMarketing: Right.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: RightIndustrial Designer: glowingness.Project Manager: okay um well {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay, great.Project Manager: let's just go right back to the marketing ideas for a start, and just giving an id idea on the time, we've got about fifteen minutes to play with at most. So um yeah so just t to bear in mind that the ultimate goal of this meeting is to reach an {gap} decision on the the the concepts of the product.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: So back to your idea about um incorporating the idea of like fruit and veg, and the corporate colour, and things like that.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um I mean what does everybody think about {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Does anybody have any ideas of {disfmarker} about how we can fit all that in together I mean that's kind of the user interface type of thing, Okay.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Cool.User Interface: That's it.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Great. {vocalsound} Lots of good information there.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah that that was very good,Industrial Designer: Mm'kay um.Project Manager: and uh now with David.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I think I'm cool.Marketing: It's a shame the cable wasn't just in the middle {gap} {vocalsound} of the table,Project Manager: I know it'd be handy, wouldn't it.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: huh Just um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oops.Project Manager: Do y do you wanna sit in the the line of sight of this um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah okay. Let me just get this going first.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Ah there it is. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It takes a second, doesn't itIndustrial Designer:'Kay, that should be it. Okay um I guess the same thing again, I started with something very basic.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So just so you guys have some idea of what's involved in my process, um and then you can just work through itMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and we'll either modify it or start from scratch um depending on what your needs are. Um the components are exactly the same.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Um I think, like what you guys said, um the most input that's needed is basically in the user interface. The rest of the components um they do have an impact in terms of cost and complexity. Um like you said time to market was a problem, um and how many components are physically in there in cost. And the power is basically a factor of that. Um and the lower components, the power, the logic, the transmitter, and the infrared, um they affect you in terms of the size of your device, um and that would have some inte impact on how y I think more how you hold rather to see {disfmarker} sorta see how this fits in with the overall vision. Um so I've tried to take a whole lot of market research and summarise it for us, and then ide identify uh trends that are are sort of in sync and are important to our our uh p project plan that we have so far, and then uh initiate a kind of discussion on design options so that it sorta helps us to to narrow in on on aspects that will inform other uh other elements of the of the project. Does that make sense, tha that sort of strategyIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I thought that that will impact on the rest of what we do, so that's why I suggested we get in this.Project Manager: Aye a fair point definitely.Marketing: Okay so out of um different uh figures and ratings ob uh of people in general, um consumers in general, the number one thing that was found was that uh the br t television remote control, a fancy look and feel, okay, and not, it specified, not a functional look or or feel, uh b f f fancy.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um however, this is where we kinda have to be very, I think, creative about it. Number two was that it be innovative. Okay so that tells me that we have to find a way to be innovative without a adding just unnecessary um sort of functional bits to it. Uh and third priority uh for ease of use, so again that kind of gives us a general picture of how it has to be, um {vocalsound} quite user friendly while still having technology. So it {disfmarker} I'll just say right away as a bit of a foreshadowing into how we proceed with this in if we just had um this {gap} here, had a sorta background yellow,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh.User Interface: and then have sort of a nice bold colour for the buttons.Project Manager: Okay cool. Um and also I mean how are we going to incorporate the slogan in The fact that it talks to you, I mean it might be quite cool if when you first start using it it says, what is it, putting fashion into electronics or something, I dunno. Or when you like {disfmarker} or if you turn it off or something {disfmarker} if it can speak if it could actually say the slogan it might be a bit more powerful than just having it written on it somewhere.User Interface: I think that might scare me.Project Manager: I d I d any thoughts on that at allUser Interface: I think that'd probably scare me. You turn it on your control possessed s {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I know. Um unless an a I mean if you {disfmarker} also would that work if we wanted to incorporate um an L_C_D_ display, where would we put that Would we put that on the inside or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Do we need an L_C_D_ displayUser Interface: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: What what's the functionality of thatProject Manager: It's bound to increase the cost of it a lot, I would've thought.Industrial Designer: Yeah but the question is what are we using it {disfmarker}Marketing: What would it achieveIndustrial Designer: what would we what would we achieve from it Putting in lights is cheap but putting in an L_C_D_ panel just to make it glow is a bit of a {disfmarker}Marketing: Well {disfmarker} L_C_ well I'd {disfmarker} when you used to mention the L_C_D_ I'd think I wonder what that would be about. And the th the thing we'll have to make some decisions about stuff, right {vocalsound}.Marketing: Yeah, cool.Project Manager: So if you wanna take this.Marketing: Why don't I get that {vocalsound} Hmm.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Screwed in quite tightly. Uh what did {disfmarker} uh how did we leave it with speech recognition now We {disfmarker} did we say we were gonna try {disfmarker} maybe incorporate it but we hadn't made a definite decision on thatIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Right. Oh I should also point out that um the you know the kind of final objective of this meeting is to reach a decision on the concepts of the product.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: So um {vocalsound} that's kind of the end result hopefully.Marketing: Okay. Um alright so c is it function F_ eightProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh-huh. Hopefully appear in a wee second.Marketing: Hmm. Come on. I think it's working.Project Manager: Up there we go.Marketing: Okay great s so let me just start this. {vocalsound} Okay great. So um {vocalsound} uh s move on. Uh-huh {disfmarker} oh where'd it all goProject Manager: {vocalsound} Oh no.Marketing: It's not good. Okay lemme just see where I can find it. This looks more like it. I think I just opened up the template.Project Manager: Oh right.Marketing: Sorry about that. Okay alright so let's have a look here.Project Manager: Here we go.Marketing: Okay so this was the method that um I've taken. Uh basically what I wanna do here, before we get into it uh too far, is I want to show you all the background information I have that I think we need to acknowledge if we want this to be successful.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And uh and then sorta g go through some of the way that I've dealt with that information, and then sort of bring us all together into it

Summarize the whole meeting.

This meeting was about the conceptual design of the remote control. Firstly, Marketing presented on the market trend and suggested a remote control with a fancy look and feel, technology innovation, and spongy material. Next, User Interface presented on conceptual design and recommended the control itself should use an inconsistent colour scheme. Then, Industrial Designer presented on the component design and that the cost, the complexity, and the size would have an impact on their remote design and reminded there would be a restriction on grouping plastic and rubber cases together. Lastly, the group discussed remote concepts and decided to have a small size remote with the speaker, the chip on print for the power, and a rubber case.

love those qualities in an animal. Right. I think we've all managed to master the whiteboard there by looks of it, so, on to it. Project finance. As you can see, twelve point five Euros per unit. That's not a terrible lot as far as I'm aware, and we're hoping to sell them for twenty five. If we're aiming for fifty million Euros we're gonna have to be selling an awful lot of them.Marketing: Oh, that was profiting, that was an amount, so that's the amount made,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: okay.Project Manager: Well, fifty million, and if you're making twelve point five Euros on each one, then, awful lot need to be sold.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Now we better actually just get on with the uh the meat of the project. So I'm gonna guess that we've all used remote controls. Any ideas of where you think a new remote control could go into this marketUser Interface: Well, one thing I'm aware of is, th there uh um at the sort of v very high price end of the market there's there's a em emerging market for sort of touch screen L_C_D_ remotes that can be uh programmed in m much more sophisticated ways than sort of conventional models, so you get the sort of you get um you {vocalsound} you can redesign the interface to your own needs, you can programme in macros, and you get a much greater degree um um I mean you get in these sort of {vocalsound} three in one, five in one, whatevers, but you can get integration between the different uh the the the diff the different things that it's designed to control, to a much greater extent, and you can have one uh you know one macro to turn the uh you know response back, or at least some kind. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And we're gonna maybe n try and have to figure outMarketing: What the user wants uh.Project Manager: what the user wants, yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Um, right. Has anybody got anything they'd like to add at this stage, anything they think that might have been missed so farIndustrial Designer: Well when you're talking about gaming and stuff, do you think they should have some sort of stick on it, rather than buttonsMarketing: Oh. Okay, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Like uh control pads, you know of games, but {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or is that a bit ridiculous {vocalsound}Project Manager: I I don't see why not, almost everybody is probably used to a console by now, and all of them incorporate small keypads on them, in fact even the mobile phones these days are beginning to use them as well, so it's probably an interface that most people are used to. UmIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: and that could allow n easy navigation, used as a joystick as well.User Interface: Mm-hmm. The other key feature that uh that would be a good idea built into it is t is is to make something you know fairly sort of ergonomic, something that just fits {vocalsound} fits as comfortably as possible into the hand. But of course, uh al al also allows for {gap} the possibility of a more sort of slightly unconventional or attractive uh sha shape for it overall, {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Okay. So,User Interface: A curve,Project Manager: small, stylish, and something that's just a little different.User Interface: mm-hmm. Something sort of sort of sl slightly sort of biomorphic in form, {vocalsound} uh which it would need to be to sort of conform to the shape of the hand more efficiently anyway.Project Manager: Okay. That's definitely something that we should be able to do quite easily. I would I would have hoped so anyway. Um, right. I'd say we finish this one up, we get started, I'll get in, I'll write up what we've um kind of quickly done, and I'll get that out to everybody. YeahMarketing:'Kay. So.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Um, as far as I'm aware we leave the microphones here, um unless we get told otherwise, and just take the laptops with us. turn the T_V_ to the right channel, get the uh re uh rewind the tape in the V_C_R_ and get it to play once it's rewound, for instance.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um b it occurs to me there might be a niche for uh for a remote that aimed towards some of that sort of functionality but using a just conventional push button design. And therefore putting it into a um well much lower price bracket.Project Manager: Okay, yeah, tha that's true, with the price range we're looking at, going for a touch screen would probably be possibly out of our {disfmarker}User Interface: Absolutely prohibitive,Project Manager: yeah.User Interface: yeah.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: But you think uh again something to control multiple units in uh a simple fashion.User Interface: Yeah, I mean I wouldn't like to say you g {vocalsound} I mean you get ones that you can switch between multiple units, but something that could um operate between multiple units in a more integrated fashion. Some {gap} and ideally something into which it would have some at least limited facility for {vocalsound} um running macros.Project Manager: Would the the idea something along the lines of, one on button would turn on say the video recorder, the T_V_, maybe the sound system as well, all in one go, is that kind of {disfmarker}User Interface: For instance, um let's say oh oh um, or um you know you pr uh you press uh say the play button for the D_V_D_ player and it turns the T_V_ on and onto the right channel as well, umProject Manager: Okay, that sounds like a a good strong idea. Um {disfmarker}Marketing:'KayProject Manager: {vocalsound} Any takes on thisMarketing: Well um I've noticed that uh gaming c is becoming quite popular with television, um when I was younger we used to e play games using our cable, using the cable subscribed the cable providers,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: but our remote controls would get worn out really easily, and {vocalsound} the remote control was not a great kind of keyboar, um keypad, for playing games.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So perhaps one that was more um specialised for game playing or interactive television. They they've recently brought out this new remote control, for people to set their favourite channels, or um to record things. Instead of people entering in what time things start, you simply stri slide a bar to say what time it begins,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and slide another bar to say what time it ends, you know that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah I've heard {disfmarker} I've seen the bar-code design before,Industrial Designer: Mm.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Marketing: Yeah, it's it's taken out the {disfmarker} Y you don't have to be uh really clever to use a remote control. I think for gaming, you know you want you want some big buttons for up, down, left and right, shoot.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh, you wanna be able to change angles in interactive television, so you need buttons to change the television angle, the camera angles and stuff like that.Project Manager: Okay, wellIndustrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: we're beginning to run out of time now, so, we've got a couple of ideas,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: we can {disfmarker} we'll have to work fast, um, alright as you can see we've got thirty minutes until the next meeting, so {vocalsound} we'll have to try and decide on some of the basic functionality, um, how the user interface might work, that'll be a key aspect especially if the idea of um some kind of macros facility because you have to program it, you have to have a lot of course, you've all got the similar emails, I believe, right. {vocalsound} What can I say Ebenezer, you wanna have a {disfmarker} you wanna draw your favourite animal {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sure. {vocalsound} Whiteboard.'Kay. S okay. I will make this quick, since we don't have much time. {vocalsound} Um. {vocalsound}'Kay, so it's not the best picture in the world.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Here we have an elephant. First point, begins with an E_, same like Ebenezer. Also, elephants have a very good memory, much like myself,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I can't remember back when I used to live back in Nigeria, but I think I used to have a pet elephant. So elephants are big, strong and gentle, and they have great memories, and they begin with the letter E_, just like Ebenezer.Project Manager: Brilliantly done. Thank you. {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you.Project Manager: Tarik, would you like to have a shot at a bit of artistryIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Oh, um,Marketing: Oh. Oh {vocalsound} ohProject Manager: you can clip them to your belt.Industrial Designer: Do we take them offMarketing: I think you gaIndustrial Designer: Oh right,Project Manager: You should also l um have your {disfmarker} the lapel mic on as well.Industrial Designer: okay.Marketing: The little {disfmarker} The the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah-ha.Marketing: Oh that's good, we can clip them on. Okay. Yeah,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Now where do I put the {disfmarker}Marketing: Just um somewhere {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yep, the {gap}, it's just across there, that's it. Yep.Industrial Designer: Is this supposed to be clipped as wellProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I think so.Project Manager: It'll follow you if you {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. There you go.Project Manager: You can probably just stick it in your pocket for now, I wouldn't worry too much. Should have good range.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh, destroying your elephant here.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:

What did the group discuss about project finance and the new remote control design

Project Manager informed the team of their financial target, which was 50 million Euros. Each 25-Euro remote control would make a profit of 12. 5 Euros. The team members had many ideas on the remote control design. User Interface recommended an integrating remote control for several different devices. Marketing spotted a niche in the game market and thus suggested adopting a bar-code design.

love those qualities in an animal. Right. I think we've all managed to master the whiteboard there by looks of it, so, on to it. Project finance. As you can see, twelve point five Euros per unit. That's not a terrible lot as far as I'm aware, and we're hoping to sell them for twenty five. If we're aiming for fifty million Euros we're gonna have to be selling an awful lot of them.Marketing: Oh, that was profiting, that was an amount, so that's the amount made,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: okay.Project Manager: Well, fifty million, and if you're making twelve point five Euros on each one, then, awful lot need to be sold.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Now we better actually just get on with the uh the meat of the project. So I'm gonna guess that we've all used remote controls. Any ideas of where you think a new remote control could go into this marketUser Interface: Well, one thing I'm aware of is, th there uh um at the sort of v very high price end of the market there's there's a em emerging market for sort of touch screen L_C_D_ remotes that can be uh programmed in m much more sophisticated ways than sort of conventional models, so you get the sort of you get um you {vocalsound} you can redesign the interface to your own needs, you can programme in macros, and you get a much greater degree um um I mean you get in these sort of {vocalsound} three in one, five in one, whatevers, but you can get integration between the different uh the the the diff the different things that it's designed to control, to a much greater extent, and you can have one uh you know one macro to turn the uh you know turn the T_V_ to the right channel, get the uh re uh rewind the tape in the V_C_R_ and get it to play once it's rewound, for instance.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um b it occurs to me there might be a niche for uh for a remote that aimed towards some of that sort of functionality but using a just conventional push button design. And therefore putting it into a um well much lower price bracket.Project Manager: Okay, yeah, tha that's true, with the price range we're looking at, going for a touch screen would probably be possibly out of our {disfmarker}User Interface: Absolutely prohibitive,Project Manager: yeah.User Interface: yeah.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: But you think uh again something to control multiple units in uh a simple fashion.User Interface: Yeah, I mean I wouldn't like to say you g {vocalsound} I mean you get ones that you can switch between multiple units, but something that could um operate between multiple units in a more integrated fashion. Some {gap} and ideally something into which it would have some at least limited facility for {vocalsound} um running macros.Project Manager: Would the the idea something along the lines of, one on button would turn on say the video recorder, the T_V_, maybe the sound system as well, all in one go, is that kind of {disfmarker}User Interface: For instance, um let's say oh oh um, or um you know you pr uh you press uh say the play button for the D_V_D_ player and it turns the T_V_ on and onto the right channel as well, umProject Manager: Okay, that sounds like a a good strong idea. Um {disfmarker}Marketing:'KayProject Manager: {vocalsound} Any takes on thisMarketing: Well um I've noticed that uh gaming c is becoming quite popular with television, um when I was younger we response back, or at least some kind. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And we're gonna maybe n try and have to figure outMarketing: What the user wants uh.Project Manager: what the user wants, yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Um, right. Has anybody got anything they'd like to add at this stage, anything they think that might have been missed so farIndustrial Designer: Well when you're talking about gaming and stuff, do you think they should have some sort of stick on it, rather than buttonsMarketing: Oh. Okay, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Like uh control pads, you know of games, but {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or is that a bit ridiculous {vocalsound}Project Manager: I I don't see why not, almost everybody is probably used to a console by now, and all of them incorporate small keypads on them, in fact even the mobile phones these days are beginning to use them as well, so it's probably an interface that most people are used to. UmIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: and that could allow n easy navigation, used as a joystick as well.User Interface: Mm-hmm. The other key feature that uh that would be a good idea built into it is t is is to make something you know fairly sort of ergonomic, something that just fits {vocalsound} fits as comfortably as possible into the hand. But of course, uh al al also allows for {gap} the possibility of a more sort of slightly unconventional or attractive uh sha shape for it overall, {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Okay. So,User Interface: A curve,Project Manager: small, stylish, and something that's just a little different.User Interface: mm-hmm. Something sort of sort of sl slightly sort of biomorphic in form, {vocalsound} uh which it would need to be to sort of conform to the shape of the hand more efficiently anyway.Project Manager: Okay. That's definitely something that we should be able to do quite easily. I would I would have hoped so anyway. Um, right. I'd say we finish this one up, we get started, I'll get in, I'll write up what we've um kind of quickly done, and I'll get that out to everybody. YeahMarketing:'Kay. So.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Um, as far as I'm aware we leave the microphones here, um unless we get told otherwise, and just take the laptops with us. used to e play games using our cable, using the cable subscribed the cable providers,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: but our remote controls would get worn out really easily, and {vocalsound} the remote control was not a great kind of keyboar, um keypad, for playing games.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So perhaps one that was more um specialised for game playing or interactive television. They they've recently brought out this new remote control, for people to set their favourite channels, or um to record things. Instead of people entering in what time things start, you simply stri slide a bar to say what time it begins,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and slide another bar to say what time it ends, you know that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah I've heard {disfmarker} I've seen the bar-code design before,Industrial Designer: Mm.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Marketing: Yeah, it's it's taken out the {disfmarker} Y you don't have to be uh really clever to use a remote control. I think for gaming, you know you want you want some big buttons for up, down, left and right, shoot.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh, you wanna be able to change angles in interactive television, so you need buttons to change the television angle, the camera angles and stuff like that.Project Manager: Okay, wellIndustrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: we're beginning to run out of time now, so, we've got a couple of ideas,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: we can {disfmarker} we'll have to work fast, um, alright as you can see we've got thirty minutes until the next meeting, so {vocalsound} we'll have to try and decide on some of the basic functionality, um, how the user interface might work, that'll be a key aspect especially if the idea of um some kind of macros facility because you have to program it, you have to have a lot of course, you've all got the similar emails, I believe, right. {vocalsound} What can I say Ebenezer, you wanna have a {disfmarker} you wanna draw your favourite animal {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sure. {vocalsound} Whiteboard.'Kay. S okay. I will make this quick, since we don't have much time. {vocalsound} Um. {vocalsound}'Kay, so it's not the best picture in the world.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Here we have an elephant. First point, begins with an E_, same like Ebenezer. Also, elephants have a very good memory, much like myself,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I can't remember back when I used to live back in Nigeria, but I think I used to have a pet elephant. So elephants are big, strong and gentle, and they have great memories, and they begin with the letter E_, just like Ebenezer.Project Manager: Brilliantly done. Thank you. {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you.Project Manager: Tarik, would you like to have a shot at a bit of artistryIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Oh, um,Marketing: Oh. Oh {vocalsound} ohProject Manager: you can clip them to your belt.Industrial Designer: Do we take them offMarketing: I think you gaIndustrial Designer: Oh right,Project Manager: You should also l um have your {disfmarker} the lapel mic on as well.Industrial Designer: okay.Marketing: The little {disfmarker} The the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah-ha.Marketing: Oh that's good, we can clip them on. Okay. Yeah,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Now where do I put the {disfmarker}Marketing: Just um somewhere {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yep, the {gap}, it's just across there, that's it. Yep.Industrial Designer: Is this supposed to be clipped as wellProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I think so.Project Manager: It'll follow you if you {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. There you go.Project Manager: You can probably just stick it in your pocket for now, I wouldn't worry too much. Should have good range.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh, destroying your elephant here.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:

Summarize User Interface's opinions towards the new remote control design.

User Interface initially believed that there would be an emerging market for the touch screen remote control which could be programmed in a sophisticated way. Users could redesign their remote controls to their own needs. Remote controls originally designed for different devices could now be integrated. Project Manager, however, reminded User Interface about the budget issue. User Interface then admitted that a conventional push button would be a better choice than a touch screen.

love those qualities in an animal. Right. I think we've all managed to master the whiteboard there by looks of it, so, on to it. Project finance. As you can see, twelve point five Euros per unit. That's not a terrible lot as far as I'm aware, and we're hoping to sell them for twenty five. If we're aiming for fifty million Euros we're gonna have to be selling an awful lot of them.Marketing: Oh, that was profiting, that was an amount, so that's the amount made,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: okay.Project Manager: Well, fifty million, and if you're making twelve point five Euros on each one, then, awful lot need to be sold.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Now we better actually just get on with the uh the meat of the project. So I'm gonna guess that we've all used remote controls. Any ideas of where you think a new remote control could go into this marketUser Interface: Well, one thing I'm aware of is, th there uh um at the sort of v very high price end of the market there's there's a em emerging market for sort of touch screen L_C_D_ remotes that can be uh programmed in m much more sophisticated ways than sort of conventional models, so you get the sort of you get um you {vocalsound} you can redesign the interface to your own needs, you can programme in macros, and you get a much greater degree um um I mean you get in these sort of {vocalsound} three in one, five in one, whatevers, but you can get integration between the different uh the the the diff the different things that it's designed to control, to a much greater extent, and you can have one uh you know one macro to turn the uh you know turn the T_V_ to the right channel, get the uh re uh rewind the tape in the V_C_R_ and get it to play once it's rewound, for instance.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um b it occurs to me there might be a niche for uh for a remote that aimed towards some of that sort of functionality but using a just conventional push button design. And therefore putting it into a um well much lower price bracket.Project Manager: Okay, yeah, tha that's true, with the price range we're looking at, going for a touch screen would probably be possibly out of our {disfmarker}User Interface: Absolutely prohibitive,Project Manager: yeah.User Interface: yeah.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: But you think uh again something to control multiple units in uh a simple fashion.User Interface: Yeah, I mean I wouldn't like to say you g {vocalsound} I mean you get ones that you can switch between multiple units, but something that could um operate between multiple units in a more integrated fashion. Some {gap} and ideally something into which it would have some at least limited facility for {vocalsound} um running macros.Project Manager: Would the the idea something along the lines of, one on button would turn on say the video recorder, the T_V_, maybe the sound system as well, all in one go, is that kind of {disfmarker}User Interface: For instance, um let's say oh oh um, or um you know you pr uh you press uh say the play button for the D_V_D_ player and it turns the T_V_ on and onto the right channel as well, umProject Manager: Okay, that sounds like a a good strong idea. Um {disfmarker}Marketing:'KayProject Manager: {vocalsound} Any takes on thisMarketing: Well um I've noticed that uh gaming c is becoming quite popular with television, um when I was younger we response back, or at least some kind. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And we're gonna maybe n try and have to figure outMarketing: What the user wants uh.Project Manager: what the user wants, yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Um, right. Has anybody got anything they'd like to add at this stage, anything they think that might have been missed so farIndustrial Designer: Well when you're talking about gaming and stuff, do you think they should have some sort of stick on it, rather than buttonsMarketing: Oh. Okay, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Like uh control pads, you know of games, but {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or is that a bit ridiculous {vocalsound}Project Manager: I I don't see why not, almost everybody is probably used to a console by now, and all of them incorporate small keypads on them, in fact even the mobile phones these days are beginning to use them as well, so it's probably an interface that most people are used to. UmIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: and that could allow n easy navigation, used as a joystick as well.User Interface: Mm-hmm. The other key feature that uh that would be a good idea built into it is t is is to make something you know fairly sort of ergonomic, something that just fits {vocalsound} fits as comfortably as possible into the hand. But of course, uh al al also allows for {gap} the possibility of a more sort of slightly unconventional or attractive uh sha shape for it overall, {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Okay. So,User Interface: A curve,Project Manager: small, stylish, and something that's just a little different.User Interface: mm-hmm. Something sort of sort of sl slightly sort of biomorphic in form, {vocalsound} uh which it would need to be to sort of conform to the shape of the hand more efficiently anyway.Project Manager: Okay. That's definitely something that we should be able to do quite easily. I would I would have hoped so anyway. Um, right. I'd say we finish this one up, we get started, I'll get in, I'll write up what we've um kind of quickly done, and I'll get that out to everybody. YeahMarketing:'Kay. So.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Um, as far as I'm aware we leave the microphones here, um unless we get told otherwise, and just take the laptops with us. used to e play games using our cable, using the cable subscribed the cable providers,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: but our remote controls would get worn out really easily, and {vocalsound} the remote control was not a great kind of keyboar, um keypad, for playing games.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So perhaps one that was more um specialised for game playing or interactive television. They they've recently brought out this new remote control, for people to set their favourite channels, or um to record things. Instead of people entering in what time things start, you simply stri slide a bar to say what time it begins,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and slide another bar to say what time it ends, you know that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah I've heard {disfmarker} I've seen the bar-code design before,Industrial Designer: Mm.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Marketing: Yeah, it's it's taken out the {disfmarker} Y you don't have to be uh really clever to use a remote control. I think for gaming, you know you want you want some big buttons for up, down, left and right, shoot.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh, you wanna be able to change angles in interactive television, so you need buttons to change the television angle, the camera angles and stuff like that.Project Manager: Okay, wellIndustrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: we're beginning to run out of time now, so, we've got a couple of ideas,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: we can {disfmarker} we'll have to work fast, um, alright as you can see we've got thirty minutes until the next meeting, so {vocalsound} we'll have to try and decide on some of the basic functionality, um, how the user interface might work, that'll be a key aspect especially if the idea of um some kind of macros facility because you have to program it, you have to have a lot of course, you've all got the similar emails, I believe, right. {vocalsound} What can I say Ebenezer, you wanna have a {disfmarker} you wanna draw your favourite animal {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sure. {vocalsound} Whiteboard.'Kay. S okay. I will make this quick, since we don't have much time. {vocalsound} Um. {vocalsound}'Kay, so it's not the best picture in the world.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Here we have an elephant. First point, begins with an E_, same like Ebenezer. Also, elephants have a very good memory, much like myself,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I can't remember back when I used to live back in Nigeria, but I think I used to have a pet elephant. So elephants are big, strong and gentle, and they have great memories, and they begin with the letter E_, just like Ebenezer.Project Manager: Brilliantly done. Thank you. {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you.Project Manager: Tarik, would you like to have a shot at a bit of artistryIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Oh, um,Marketing: Oh. Oh {vocalsound} ohProject Manager: you can clip them to your belt.Industrial Designer: Do we take them offMarketing: I think you gaIndustrial Designer: Oh right,Project Manager: You should also l um have your {disfmarker} the lapel mic on as well.Industrial Designer: okay.Marketing: The little {disfmarker} The the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah-ha.Marketing: Oh that's good, we can clip them on. Okay. Yeah,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Now where do I put the {disfmarker}Marketing: Just um somewhere {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yep, the {gap}, it's just across there, that's it. Yep.Industrial Designer: Is this supposed to be clipped as wellProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I think so.Project Manager: It'll follow you if you {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. There you go.Project Manager: You can probably just stick it in your pocket for now, I wouldn't worry too much. Should have good range.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh, destroying your elephant here.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:

Summarize Marketing's opinions towards the new remote control design.

Marketing noticed that gaming on TV was getting popular and hoped that the new remote control could become a specialized keypad for game players. Marketing desired buttons that would not get worn out too easily for the new remote control. A bar-code design was desirable as well.

love those qualities in an animal. Right. I think we've all managed to master the whiteboard there by looks of it, so, on to it. Project finance. As you can see, twelve point five Euros per unit. That's not a terrible lot as far as I'm aware, and we're hoping to sell them for twenty five. If we're aiming for fifty million Euros we're gonna have to be selling an awful lot of them.Marketing: Oh, that was profiting, that was an amount, so that's the amount made,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: okay.Project Manager: Well, fifty million, and if you're making twelve point five Euros on each one, then, awful lot need to be sold.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Now we better actually just get on with the uh the meat of the project. So I'm gonna guess that we've all used remote controls. Any ideas of where you think a new remote control could go into this marketUser Interface: Well, one thing I'm aware of is, th there uh um at the sort of v very high price end of the market there's there's a em emerging market for sort of touch screen L_C_D_ remotes that can be uh programmed in m much more sophisticated ways than sort of conventional models, so you get the sort of you get um you {vocalsound} you can redesign the interface to your own needs, you can programme in macros, and you get a much greater degree um um I mean you get in these sort of {vocalsound} three in one, five in one, whatevers, but you can get integration between the different uh the the the diff the different things that it's designed to control, to a much greater extent, and you can have one uh you know one macro to turn the uh you know response back, or at least some kind. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And we're gonna maybe n try and have to figure outMarketing: What the user wants uh.Project Manager: what the user wants, yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Um, right. Has anybody got anything they'd like to add at this stage, anything they think that might have been missed so farIndustrial Designer: Well when you're talking about gaming and stuff, do you think they should have some sort of stick on it, rather than buttonsMarketing: Oh. Okay, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Like uh control pads, you know of games, but {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or is that a bit ridiculous {vocalsound}Project Manager: I I don't see why not, almost everybody is probably used to a console by now, and all of them incorporate small keypads on them, in fact even the mobile phones these days are beginning to use them as well, so it's probably an interface that most people are used to. UmIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: and that could allow n easy navigation, used as a joystick as well.User Interface: Mm-hmm. The other key feature that uh that would be a good idea built into it is t is is to make something you know fairly sort of ergonomic, something that just fits {vocalsound} fits as comfortably as possible into the hand. But of course, uh al al also allows for {gap} the possibility of a more sort of slightly unconventional or attractive uh sha shape for it overall, {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Okay. So,User Interface: A curve,Project Manager: small, stylish, and something that's just a little different.User Interface: mm-hmm. Something sort of sort of sl slightly sort of biomorphic in form, {vocalsound} uh which it would need to be to sort of conform to the shape of the hand more efficiently anyway.Project Manager: Okay. That's definitely something that we should be able to do quite easily. I would I would have hoped so anyway. Um, right. I'd say we finish this one up, we get started, I'll get in, I'll write up what we've um kind of quickly done, and I'll get that out to everybody. YeahMarketing:'Kay. So.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Um, as far as I'm aware we leave the microphones here, um unless we get told otherwise, and just take the laptops with us. turn the T_V_ to the right channel, get the uh re uh rewind the tape in the V_C_R_ and get it to play once it's rewound, for instance.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um b it occurs to me there might be a niche for uh for a remote that aimed towards some of that sort of functionality but using a just conventional push button design. And therefore putting it into a um well much lower price bracket.Project Manager: Okay, yeah, tha that's true, with the price range we're looking at, going for a touch screen would probably be possibly out of our {disfmarker}User Interface: Absolutely prohibitive,Project Manager: yeah.User Interface: yeah.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: But you think uh again something to control multiple units in uh a simple fashion.User Interface: Yeah, I mean I wouldn't like to say you g {vocalsound} I mean you get ones that you can switch between multiple units, but something that could um operate between multiple units in a more integrated fashion. Some {gap} and ideally something into which it would have some at least limited facility for {vocalsound} um running macros.Project Manager: Would the the idea something along the lines of, one on button would turn on say the video recorder, the T_V_, maybe the sound system as well, all in one go, is that kind of {disfmarker}User Interface: For instance, um let's say oh oh um, or um you know you pr uh you press uh say the play button for the D_V_D_ player and it turns the T_V_ on and onto the right channel as well, umProject Manager: Okay, that sounds like a a good strong idea. Um {disfmarker}Marketing:'KayProject Manager: {vocalsound} Any takes on thisMarketing: Well um I've noticed that uh gaming c is becoming quite popular with television, um when I was younger we used to e play games using our cable, using the cable subscribed the cable providers,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: but our remote controls would get worn out really easily, and {vocalsound} the remote control was not a great kind of keyboar, um keypad, for playing games.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So perhaps one that was more um specialised for game playing or interactive television. They they've recently brought out this new remote control, for people to set their favourite channels, or um to record things. Instead of people entering in what time things start, you simply stri slide a bar to say what time it begins,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and slide another bar to say what time it ends, you know that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah I've heard {disfmarker} I've seen the bar-code design before,Industrial Designer: Mm.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Marketing: Yeah, it's it's taken out the {disfmarker} Y you don't have to be uh really clever to use a remote control. I think for gaming, you know you want you want some big buttons for up, down, left and right, shoot.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh, you wanna be able to change angles in interactive television, so you need buttons to change the television angle, the camera angles and stuff like that.Project Manager: Okay, wellIndustrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: we're beginning to run out of time now, so, we've got a couple of ideas,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: we can {disfmarker} we'll have to work fast, um, alright as you can see we've got thirty minutes until the next meeting, so {vocalsound} we'll have to try and decide on some of the basic functionality, um, how the user interface might work, that'll be a key aspect especially if the idea of um some kind of macros facility because you have to program it, you have to have a lot of course, you've all got the similar emails, I believe, right. {vocalsound} What can I say Ebenezer, you wanna have a {disfmarker} you wanna draw your favourite animal {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sure. {vocalsound} Whiteboard.'Kay. S okay. I will make this quick, since we don't have much time. {vocalsound} Um. {vocalsound}'Kay, so it's not the best picture in the world.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Here we have an elephant. First point, begins with an E_, same like Ebenezer. Also, elephants have a very good memory, much like myself,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I can't remember back when I used to live back in Nigeria, but I think I used to have a pet elephant. So elephants are big, strong and gentle, and they have great memories, and they begin with the letter E_, just like Ebenezer.Project Manager: Brilliantly done. Thank you. {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you.Project Manager: Tarik, would you like to have a shot at a bit of artistryIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Oh, um,Marketing: Oh. Oh {vocalsound} ohProject Manager: you can clip them to your belt.Industrial Designer: Do we take them offMarketing: I think you gaIndustrial Designer: Oh right,Project Manager: You should also l um have your {disfmarker} the lapel mic on as well.Industrial Designer: okay.Marketing: The little {disfmarker} The the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah-ha.Marketing: Oh that's good, we can clip them on. Okay. Yeah,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Now where do I put the {disfmarker}Marketing: Just um somewhere {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yep, the {gap}, it's just across there, that's it. Yep.Industrial Designer: Is this supposed to be clipped as wellProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I think so.Project Manager: It'll follow you if you {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. There you go.Project Manager: You can probably just stick it in your pocket for now, I wouldn't worry too much. Should have good range.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh, destroying your elephant here.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:

What did the group discuss about the keypad and ergonomic design of the new remote control

When discussing the basic functionality, the team agreed that it was the most important to meet the user requirements. Industrial Designer suggested that the team could consider incorporating a keypad for the better game experience. User Interface went on making a contribution. An ergonomic curve design was recommended by User Interface and appreciated by Project Manager, for it would make the remote control look more stylish.

love those qualities in an animal. Right. I think we've all managed to master the whiteboard there by looks of it, so, on to it. Project finance. As you can see, twelve point five Euros per unit. That's not a terrible lot as far as I'm aware, and we're hoping to sell them for twenty five. If we're aiming for fifty million Euros we're gonna have to be selling an awful lot of them.Marketing: Oh, that was profiting, that was an amount, so that's the amount made,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: okay.Project Manager: Well, fifty million, and if you're making twelve point five Euros on each one, then, awful lot need to be sold.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Now we better actually just get on with the uh the meat of the project. So I'm gonna guess that we've all used remote controls. Any ideas of where you think a new remote control could go into this marketUser Interface: Well, one thing I'm aware of is, th there uh um at the sort of v very high price end of the market there's there's a em emerging market for sort of touch screen L_C_D_ remotes that can be uh programmed in m much more sophisticated ways than sort of conventional models, so you get the sort of you get um you {vocalsound} you can redesign the interface to your own needs, you can programme in macros, and you get a much greater degree um um I mean you get in these sort of {vocalsound} three in one, five in one, whatevers, but you can get integration between the different uh the the the diff the different things that it's designed to control, to a much greater extent, and you can have one uh you know one macro to turn the uh you know turn the T_V_ to the right channel, get the uh re uh rewind the tape in the V_C_R_ and get it to play once it's rewound, for instance.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um b it occurs to me there might be a niche for uh for a remote that aimed towards some of that sort of functionality but using a just conventional push button design. And therefore putting it into a um well much lower price bracket.Project Manager: Okay, yeah, tha that's true, with the price range we're looking at, going for a touch screen would probably be possibly out of our {disfmarker}User Interface: Absolutely prohibitive,Project Manager: yeah.User Interface: yeah.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: But you think uh again something to control multiple units in uh a simple fashion.User Interface: Yeah, I mean I wouldn't like to say you g {vocalsound} I mean you get ones that you can switch between multiple units, but something that could um operate between multiple units in a more integrated fashion. Some {gap} and ideally something into which it would have some at least limited facility for {vocalsound} um running macros.Project Manager: Would the the idea something along the lines of, one on button would turn on say the video recorder, the T_V_, maybe the sound system as well, all in one go, is that kind of {disfmarker}User Interface: For instance, um let's say oh oh um, or um you know you pr uh you press uh say the play button for the D_V_D_ player and it turns the T_V_ on and onto the right channel as well, umProject Manager: Okay, that sounds like a a good strong idea. Um {disfmarker}Marketing:'KayProject Manager: {vocalsound} Any takes on thisMarketing: Well um I've noticed that uh gaming c is becoming quite popular with television, um when I was younger we response back, or at least some kind. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And we're gonna maybe n try and have to figure outMarketing: What the user wants uh.Project Manager: what the user wants, yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Um, right. Has anybody got anything they'd like to add at this stage, anything they think that might have been missed so farIndustrial Designer: Well when you're talking about gaming and stuff, do you think they should have some sort of stick on it, rather than buttonsMarketing: Oh. Okay, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Like uh control pads, you know of games, but {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or is that a bit ridiculous {vocalsound}Project Manager: I I don't see why not, almost everybody is probably used to a console by now, and all of them incorporate small keypads on them, in fact even the mobile phones these days are beginning to use them as well, so it's probably an interface that most people are used to. UmIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: and that could allow n easy navigation, used as a joystick as well.User Interface: Mm-hmm. The other key feature that uh that would be a good idea built into it is t is is to make something you know fairly sort of ergonomic, something that just fits {vocalsound} fits as comfortably as possible into the hand. But of course, uh al al also allows for {gap} the possibility of a more sort of slightly unconventional or attractive uh sha shape for it overall, {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Okay. So,User Interface: A curve,Project Manager: small, stylish, and something that's just a little different.User Interface: mm-hmm. Something sort of sort of sl slightly sort of biomorphic in form, {vocalsound} uh which it would need to be to sort of conform to the shape of the hand more efficiently anyway.Project Manager: Okay. That's definitely something that we should be able to do quite easily. I would I would have hoped so anyway. Um, right. I'd say we finish this one up, we get started, I'll get in, I'll write up what we've um kind of quickly done, and I'll get that out to everybody. YeahMarketing:'Kay. So.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Um, as far as I'm aware we leave the microphones here, um unless we get told otherwise, and just take the laptops with us. used to e play games using our cable, using the cable subscribed the cable providers,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: but our remote controls would get worn out really easily, and {vocalsound} the remote control was not a great kind of keyboar, um keypad, for playing games.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So perhaps one that was more um specialised for game playing or interactive television. They they've recently brought out this new remote control, for people to set their favourite channels, or um to record things. Instead of people entering in what time things start, you simply stri slide a bar to say what time it begins,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and slide another bar to say what time it ends, you know that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah I've heard {disfmarker} I've seen the bar-code design before,Industrial Designer: Mm.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Marketing: Yeah, it's it's taken out the {disfmarker} Y you don't have to be uh really clever to use a remote control. I think for gaming, you know you want you want some big buttons for up, down, left and right, shoot.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh, you wanna be able to change angles in interactive television, so you need buttons to change the television angle, the camera angles and stuff like that.Project Manager: Okay, wellIndustrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: we're beginning to run out of time now, so, we've got a couple of ideas,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: we can {disfmarker} we'll have to work fast, um, alright as you can see we've got thirty minutes until the next meeting, so {vocalsound} we'll have to try and decide on some of the basic functionality, um, how the user interface might work, that'll be a key aspect especially if the idea of um some kind of macros facility because you have to program it, you have to have a lot of course, you've all got the similar emails, I believe, right. {vocalsound} What can I say Ebenezer, you wanna have a {disfmarker} you wanna draw your favourite animal {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sure. {vocalsound} Whiteboard.'Kay. S okay. I will make this quick, since we don't have much time. {vocalsound} Um. {vocalsound}'Kay, so it's not the best picture in the world.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Here we have an elephant. First point, begins with an E_, same like Ebenezer. Also, elephants have a very good memory, much like myself,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I can't remember back when I used to live back in Nigeria, but I think I used to have a pet elephant. So elephants are big, strong and gentle, and they have great memories, and they begin with the letter E_, just like Ebenezer.Project Manager: Brilliantly done. Thank you. {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you.Project Manager: Tarik, would you like to have a shot at a bit of artistryIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Oh, um,Marketing: Oh. Oh {vocalsound} ohProject Manager: you can clip them to your belt.Industrial Designer: Do we take them offMarketing: I think you gaIndustrial Designer: Oh right,Project Manager: You should also l um have your {disfmarker} the lapel mic on as well.Industrial Designer: okay.Marketing: The little {disfmarker} The the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah-ha.Marketing: Oh that's good, we can clip them on. Okay. Yeah,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Now where do I put the {disfmarker}Marketing: Just um somewhere {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yep, the {gap}, it's just across there, that's it. Yep.Industrial Designer: Is this supposed to be clipped as wellProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I think so.Project Manager: It'll follow you if you {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. There you go.Project Manager: You can probably just stick it in your pocket for now, I wouldn't worry too much. Should have good range.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh, destroying your elephant here.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:

What did Project Manager think of the special button design for game players when discussing keypad and ergonomic design of the new remote control

Marketing desired to design self-intuitive buttons for game players. Industrial Designer expressed a preference for a game control keypad rather than big separate buttons. Project Manager accepted the latter suggestion, for keypads on consoles were common and user-friendly nowadays, so it would also be feasible to incorporate one on the remote control. Besides, Project Manager pointed out that a keypad would allow easier navigation and be used as a joystick.

love those qualities in an animal. Right. I think we've all managed to master the whiteboard there by looks of it, so, on to it. Project finance. As you can see, twelve point five Euros per unit. That's not a terrible lot as far as I'm aware, and we're hoping to sell them for twenty five. If we're aiming for fifty million Euros we're gonna have to be selling an awful lot of them.Marketing: Oh, that was profiting, that was an amount, so that's the amount made,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: okay.Project Manager: Well, fifty million, and if you're making twelve point five Euros on each one, then, awful lot need to be sold.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Now we better actually just get on with the uh the meat of the project. So I'm gonna guess that we've all used remote controls. Any ideas of where you think a new remote control could go into this marketUser Interface: Well, one thing I'm aware of is, th there uh um at the sort of v very high price end of the market there's there's a em emerging market for sort of touch screen L_C_D_ remotes that can be uh programmed in m much more sophisticated ways than sort of conventional models, so you get the sort of you get um you {vocalsound} you can redesign the interface to your own needs, you can programme in macros, and you get a much greater degree um um I mean you get in these sort of {vocalsound} three in one, five in one, whatevers, but you can get integration between the different uh the the the diff the different things that it's designed to control, to a much greater extent, and you can have one uh you know one macro to turn the uh you know used to e play games using our cable, using the cable subscribed the cable providers,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: but our remote controls would get worn out really easily, and {vocalsound} the remote control was not a great kind of keyboar, um keypad, for playing games.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So perhaps one that was more um specialised for game playing or interactive television. They they've recently brought out this new remote control, for people to set their favourite channels, or um to record things. Instead of people entering in what time things start, you simply stri slide a bar to say what time it begins,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and slide another bar to say what time it ends, you know that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah I've heard {disfmarker} I've seen the bar-code design before,Industrial Designer: Mm.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Marketing: Yeah, it's it's taken out the {disfmarker} Y you don't have to be uh really clever to use a remote control. I think for gaming, you know you want you want some big buttons for up, down, left and right, shoot.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh, you wanna be able to change angles in interactive television, so you need buttons to change the television angle, the camera angles and stuff like that.Project Manager: Okay, wellIndustrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: we're beginning to run out of time now, so, we've got a couple of ideas,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: we can {disfmarker} we'll have to work fast, um, alright as you can see we've got thirty minutes until the next meeting, so {vocalsound} we'll have to try and decide on some of the basic functionality, um, how the user interface might work, that'll be a key aspect especially if the idea of um some kind of macros facility because you have to program it, you have to have a lot of response back, or at least some kind. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And we're gonna maybe n try and have to figure outMarketing: What the user wants uh.Project Manager: what the user wants, yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Um, right. Has anybody got anything they'd like to add at this stage, anything they think that might have been missed so farIndustrial Designer: Well when you're talking about gaming and stuff, do you think they should have some sort of stick on it, rather than buttonsMarketing: Oh. Okay, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Like uh control pads, you know of games, but {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or is that a bit ridiculous {vocalsound}Project Manager: I I don't see why not, almost everybody is probably used to a console by now, and all of them incorporate small keypads on them, in fact even the mobile phones these days are beginning to use them as well, so it's probably an interface that most people are used to. UmIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: and that could allow n easy navigation, used as a joystick as well.User Interface: Mm-hmm. The other key feature that uh that would be a good idea built into it is t is is to make something you know fairly sort of ergonomic, something that just fits {vocalsound} fits as comfortably as possible into the hand. But of course, uh al al also allows for {gap} the possibility of a more sort of slightly unconventional or attractive uh sha shape for it overall, {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Okay. So,User Interface: A curve,Project Manager: small, stylish, and something that's just a little different.User Interface: mm-hmm. Something sort of sort of sl slightly sort of biomorphic in form, {vocalsound} uh which it would need to be to sort of conform to the shape of the hand more efficiently anyway.Project Manager: Okay. That's definitely something that we should be able to do quite easily. I would I would have hoped so anyway. Um, right. I'd say we finish this one up, we get started, I'll get in, I'll write up what we've um kind of quickly done, and I'll get that out to everybody. YeahMarketing:'Kay. So.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Um, as far as I'm aware we leave the microphones here, um unless we get told otherwise, and just take the laptops with us. turn the T_V_ to the right channel, get the uh re uh rewind the tape in the V_C_R_ and get it to play once it's rewound, for instance.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um b it occurs to me there might be a niche for uh for a remote that aimed towards some of that sort of functionality but using a just conventional push button design. And therefore putting it into a um well much lower price bracket.Project Manager: Okay, yeah, tha that's true, with the price range we're looking at, going for a touch screen would probably be possibly out of our {disfmarker}User Interface: Absolutely prohibitive,Project Manager: yeah.User Interface: yeah.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: But you think uh again something to control multiple units in uh a simple fashion.User Interface: Yeah, I mean I wouldn't like to say you g {vocalsound} I mean you get ones that you can switch between multiple units, but something that could um operate between multiple units in a more integrated fashion. Some {gap} and ideally something into which it would have some at least limited facility for {vocalsound} um running macros.Project Manager: Would the the idea something along the lines of, one on button would turn on say the video recorder, the T_V_, maybe the sound system as well, all in one go, is that kind of {disfmarker}User Interface: For instance, um let's say oh oh um, or um you know you pr uh you press uh say the play button for the D_V_D_ player and it turns the T_V_ on and onto the right channel as well, umProject Manager: Okay, that sounds like a a good strong idea. Um {disfmarker}Marketing:'KayProject Manager: {vocalsound} Any takes on thisMarketing: Well um I've noticed that uh gaming c is becoming quite popular with television, um when I was younger we course, you've all got the similar emails, I believe, right. {vocalsound} What can I say Ebenezer, you wanna have a {disfmarker} you wanna draw your favourite animal {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sure. {vocalsound} Whiteboard.'Kay. S okay. I will make this quick, since we don't have much time. {vocalsound} Um. {vocalsound}'Kay, so it's not the best picture in the world.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Here we have an elephant. First point, begins with an E_, same like Ebenezer. Also, elephants have a very good memory, much like myself,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I can't remember back when I used to live back in Nigeria, but I think I used to have a pet elephant. So elephants are big, strong and gentle, and they have great memories, and they begin with the letter E_, just like Ebenezer.Project Manager: Brilliantly done. Thank you. {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you.Project Manager: Tarik, would you like to have a shot at a bit of artistryIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Oh, um,Marketing: Oh. Oh {vocalsound} ohProject Manager: you can clip them to your belt.Industrial Designer: Do we take them offMarketing: I think you gaIndustrial Designer: Oh right,Project Manager: You should also l um have your {disfmarker} the lapel mic on as well.Industrial Designer: okay.Marketing: The little {disfmarker} The the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah-ha.Marketing: Oh that's good, we can clip them on. Okay. Yeah,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Now where do I put the {disfmarker}Marketing: Just um somewhere {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yep, the {gap}, it's just across there, that's it. Yep.Industrial Designer: Is this supposed to be clipped as wellProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I think so.Project Manager: It'll follow you if you {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. There you go.Project Manager: You can probably just stick it in your pocket for now, I wouldn't worry too much. Should have good range.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh, destroying your elephant here.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:

Why did User Interface think of a curve design when discussing keypad and ergonomic design of the new remote control

According to ergonomics, the remote control was expected to fit as comfortable as possible into the hand. In addition, User Interface hoped that the remote control could have an unconventional and attractive shape. A small and stylish curve was User Interface's final choice to make the remote control look more unique.

love those qualities in an animal. Right. I think we've all managed to master the whiteboard there by looks of it, so, on to it. Project finance. As you can see, twelve point five Euros per unit. That's not a terrible lot as far as I'm aware, and we're hoping to sell them for twenty five. If we're aiming for fifty million Euros we're gonna have to be selling an awful lot of them.Marketing: Oh, that was profiting, that was an amount, so that's the amount made,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: okay.Project Manager: Well, fifty million, and if you're making twelve point five Euros on each one, then, awful lot need to be sold.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Now we better actually just get on with the uh the meat of the project. So I'm gonna guess that we've all used remote controls. Any ideas of where you think a new remote control could go into this marketUser Interface: Well, one thing I'm aware of is, th there uh um at the sort of v very high price end of the market there's there's a em emerging market for sort of touch screen L_C_D_ remotes that can be uh programmed in m much more sophisticated ways than sort of conventional models, so you get the sort of you get um you {vocalsound} you can redesign the interface to your own needs, you can programme in macros, and you get a much greater degree um um I mean you get in these sort of {vocalsound} three in one, five in one, whatevers, but you can get integration between the different uh the the the diff the different things that it's designed to control, to a much greater extent, and you can have one uh you know one macro to turn the uh you know turn the T_V_ to the right channel, get the uh re uh rewind the tape in the V_C_R_ and get it to play once it's rewound, for instance.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um b it occurs to me there might be a niche for uh for a remote that aimed towards some of that sort of functionality but using a just conventional push button design. And therefore putting it into a um well much lower price bracket.Project Manager: Okay, yeah, tha that's true, with the price range we're looking at, going for a touch screen would probably be possibly out of our {disfmarker}User Interface: Absolutely prohibitive,Project Manager: yeah.User Interface: yeah.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: But you think uh again something to control multiple units in uh a simple fashion.User Interface: Yeah, I mean I wouldn't like to say you g {vocalsound} I mean you get ones that you can switch between multiple units, but something that could um operate between multiple units in a more integrated fashion. Some {gap} and ideally something into which it would have some at least limited facility for {vocalsound} um running macros.Project Manager: Would the the idea something along the lines of, one on button would turn on say the video recorder, the T_V_, maybe the sound system as well, all in one go, is that kind of {disfmarker}User Interface: For instance, um let's say oh oh um, or um you know you pr uh you press uh say the play button for the D_V_D_ player and it turns the T_V_ on and onto the right channel as well, umProject Manager: Okay, that sounds like a a good strong idea. Um {disfmarker}Marketing:'KayProject Manager: {vocalsound} Any takes on thisMarketing: Well um I've noticed that uh gaming c is becoming quite popular with television, um when I was younger we used to e play games using our cable, using the cable subscribed the cable providers,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: but our remote controls would get worn out really easily, and {vocalsound} the remote control was not a great kind of keyboar, um keypad, for playing games.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So perhaps one that was more um specialised for game playing or interactive television. They they've recently brought out this new remote control, for people to set their favourite channels, or um to record things. Instead of people entering in what time things start, you simply stri slide a bar to say what time it begins,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and slide another bar to say what time it ends, you know that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah I've heard {disfmarker} I've seen the bar-code design before,Industrial Designer: Mm.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Marketing: Yeah, it's it's taken out the {disfmarker} Y you don't have to be uh really clever to use a remote control. I think for gaming, you know you want you want some big buttons for up, down, left and right, shoot.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh, you wanna be able to change angles in interactive television, so you need buttons to change the television angle, the camera angles and stuff like that.Project Manager: Okay, wellIndustrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: we're beginning to run out of time now, so, we've got a couple of ideas,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: we can {disfmarker} we'll have to work fast, um, alright as you can see we've got thirty minutes until the next meeting, so {vocalsound} we'll have to try and decide on some of the basic functionality, um, how the user interface might work, that'll be a key aspect especially if the idea of um some kind of macros facility because you have to program it, you have to have a lot of response back, or at least some kind. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And we're gonna maybe n try and have to figure outMarketing: What the user wants uh.Project Manager: what the user wants, yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Um, right. Has anybody got anything they'd like to add at this stage, anything they think that might have been missed so farIndustrial Designer: Well when you're talking about gaming and stuff, do you think they should have some sort of stick on it, rather than buttonsMarketing: Oh. Okay, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Like uh control pads, you know of games, but {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or is that a bit ridiculous {vocalsound}Project Manager: I I don't see why not, almost everybody is probably used to a console by now, and all of them incorporate small keypads on them, in fact even the mobile phones these days are beginning to use them as well, so it's probably an interface that most people are used to. UmIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: and that could allow n easy navigation, used as a joystick as well.User Interface: Mm-hmm. The other key feature that uh that would be a good idea built into it is t is is to make something you know fairly sort of ergonomic, something that just fits {vocalsound} fits as comfortably as possible into the hand. But of course, uh al al also allows for {gap} the possibility of a more sort of slightly unconventional or attractive uh sha shape for it overall, {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Okay. So,User Interface: A curve,Project Manager: small, stylish, and something that's just a little different.User Interface: mm-hmm. Something sort of sort of sl slightly sort of biomorphic in form, {vocalsound} uh which it would need to be to sort of conform to the shape of the hand more efficiently anyway.Project Manager: Okay. That's definitely something that we should be able to do quite easily. I would I would have hoped so anyway. Um, right. I'd say we finish this one up, we get started, I'll get in, I'll write up what we've um kind of quickly done, and I'll get that out to everybody. YeahMarketing:'Kay. So.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Um, as far as I'm aware we leave the microphones here, um unless we get told otherwise, and just take the laptops with us. course, you've all got the similar emails, I believe, right. {vocalsound} What can I say Ebenezer, you wanna have a {disfmarker} you wanna draw your favourite animal {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sure. {vocalsound} Whiteboard.'Kay. S okay. I will make this quick, since we don't have much time. {vocalsound} Um. {vocalsound}'Kay, so it's not the best picture in the world.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Here we have an elephant. First point, begins with an E_, same like Ebenezer. Also, elephants have a very good memory, much like myself,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I can't remember back when I used to live back in Nigeria, but I think I used to have a pet elephant. So elephants are big, strong and gentle, and they have great memories, and they begin with the letter E_, just like Ebenezer.Project Manager: Brilliantly done. Thank you. {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you.Project Manager: Tarik, would you like to have a shot at a bit of artistryIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Oh, um,Marketing: Oh. Oh {vocalsound} ohProject Manager: you can clip them to your belt.Industrial Designer: Do we take them offMarketing: I think you gaIndustrial Designer: Oh right,Project Manager: You should also l um have your {disfmarker} the lapel mic on as well.Industrial Designer: okay.Marketing: The little {disfmarker} The the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah-ha.Marketing: Oh that's good, we can clip them on. Okay. Yeah,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Now where do I put the {disfmarker}Marketing: Just um somewhere {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yep, the {gap}, it's just across there, that's it. Yep.Industrial Designer: Is this supposed to be clipped as wellProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I think so.Project Manager: It'll follow you if you {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. There you go.Project Manager: You can probably just stick it in your pocket for now, I wouldn't worry too much. Should have good range.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh, destroying your elephant here.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:

Summarize the whole meeting.

The team members introduced themselves and their positions respectively. Project Manager announced the plan for the three-phase remote control project. The team members drew their favourite animals to get more familiar with each other. Project Manager informed the team of their financial target, which was 50 million Euros. Each 25-Euro remote control would make a profit of 12. 5 Euros. The team members had many ideas on the remote control design. User Interface recommended an integrating remote control for several different devices, as well as an ergonomic curve design. Marketing spotted a niche in the game market and thus suggested adopting a bar-code design. Industrial Designer added that the team could consider incorporating a keypad for the better game experience.

yes, indeed, a C is a success, because you've moved that child on; but, if that child came to you destined to get an A* and gets a C, then we haven't done a good job by that particular child. So, we need a performance measure that is much more sophisticated, looks at each individual child, tracks that progress, and measures the value added by that school in performance.Hefin David AM: Last question: therefore, should we have confidence in the data up to 2016 Is there a lack of confidence in that dataKirsty Williams AM: No, it's not a lack of confidence in the data. The data is the data. What I'm saying is, using that as a performance measure and an accountability measure within our school system may have been right for the time. I think it is now right to have a different way of measuring success in schools. I think that particular set of performance measures has driven certain behaviours--not because Ministers wanted that to happen, but as an unintended consequence. I think we can work together with our school system, learning the lessons of international best practice, to develop much more sophisticated accountability and performance measures for individual schools, and, I should say, for the Government. So, you will be aware of my intention to issue the first national report card on Government performance later on this year. So, this is not about trying to avoid scrutiny. It's about trying to develop a more sophisticated way, which is in line with our national mission, where every child's education is valued, and where the impact of the school can be tracked more effectively.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Can I just ask, Cabinet Secretary, are you still holding on to your target of 37 per cent of So, for instance, if I give you an example in your own region, Llyr: at Brynteg County Primary School in Wrexham, if you look at that primary school in Wrexham, their results for free-school-meal children at the end of their primary school period in school are equivalent to their non-free-school-meal counterparts. So, there is no differentiation in those results. One of the things that they've used their PDG for is to really focus on the concept of growth mindset in school. So, that's a universal thing that they've trained all the teachers in, but what we know is that that has a disproportionate effect on those children who are on free school meals. So, if you're familiar with the concept of a growth mindset, it's about really challenging learners to think that,'I can do things. If sometimes I fail, I pick myself up, I'm more resilient.'Now, that has been, as I said, trained to all the teachers in the school--it's an ethos for the whole school--but we have seen that the impact on the free-school-meal children has been even greater, and now they're at the same level. So, that's the important distinction. Individual intervention per child has to be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals, but sometimes a school will employ a whole-school approach to train their staff, for instance, and that, then, has to demonstrate it has a disproportionate effect on free school meals. So, growth mindset; it may be attachment disorder training for staff, for instance, where we know it's of benefit to everybody, but will have particular benefits for that cohort of students. With regard to more able and talented, you know, Llyr, that this is an area of concern for me, generally, within the Welsh education system; that we've not been that evolution of use of PDG is being driven by cuts to core funding.Kirsty Williams AM: No, I don't think it's being driven by cuts to core funding. I think there has been--. One of the biggest impacts of PDG has not been--well, I suppose it is the money in itself, because the money has concentrated the minds, hasn't it So, one of the most important things that PDG has done is highlight the importance of this agenda within schools, and really raise this up in the thinking of leadership and senior management teams in our schools, and has driven a focus on scrutiny and accountability in the systems that are working with our schools. I think the changing use of PDG reflects the journeys that schools have been on, some of them from a very low base where this was not a priority for them, to better understanding, and as research and as intelligence grows over time in this area, both in Wales and outside of Wales, schools are increasingly learning to use that evidence to tailor approaches in their schools.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So you wouldn't accept at all that some of this money's being used to paper over some funding cracks from elsewhere. Because the unions and some others have told us that, whether we like it or not, there is some of that going on.Kirsty Williams AM: As I said, Llyr, we're very clear about the usage that this money can be spent on in terms of individuals or universal application within schools, and that forms an important part of the checks and balances that we have in our system. Can we continue to improve, and ensure that more and more of our schools are employing best practice Yes, we can, and as I've said, we've taken Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this morning's Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members who are present if they wish to declare any interests Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is our final evidence session for our inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Cabinet Secretary for Education; Steve Davies, director of the education directorate; and Ruth Conway, deputy director, support for learners division. Welcome to all of you, and thank you for your attendance and also for the paper that you've provided in advance. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions, and the first questions are from Llyr Gruffydd.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Bore da. I just want to start by asking some questions around the targeting of the pupil development grant because, clearly, we've had a lot of evidence around this apparent blurring of eligibility to an extent. I'm just wondering how comfortable you are that the money is being targeted appropriately because, clearly, it's being targeted more widely than just those eligible for free school meals, from some of the evidence we've had, but also that it seems to be predominantly focused on low-attaining frees--pupils who are eligible for free school meals.Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you, Llyr. I think it's important to be absolutely clear that when it comes to individual interventions, those individual interventions should only be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals. But in some cases, schools may use their PDG funding to provide a universal intervention, but we would want to--in challenge advisers'discussions in schools--we'd want to have evidence that that universal intervention would have a disproportionate effect on the outcomes for children on free school meals. have to do it within the envelope that is available to me, over PS90 million. That's a significant level of investment, but, of course, as always, Darren, we could cut the amount per pupil, but that might have quite challenging swings in allocations. What we have done--because what I am clear on is that there was evidence to suggest that in the secondary sector, a great deal of PDG was being focused on years 10 and 11, especially year 11, in catch-up provision, and you'll be aware, because we've said this in evidence to the committee in the papers, we've set a challenge to secondary schools to say,'Actually, the majority of your PDG allocation has to be used in key stage 3.'Now, we have to balance the needs, the moral hazard of turning round to children in years 10 and 11 and saying,'We're not going to provide catch-up opportunities for you,'because, clearly, those children need that support. But the evidence and the advice that we're receiving is: actually, strong focus on early years, primary and key stage 3, if we get that right, should negate the need for spending money on catch-up at years 10 and 11. That's why we, in our advice to local authorities and schools, say that we want to see evidence that they're spending this money earlier on in a child's career, rather than just a scramble at year 11 to say,'Right, we've got to get you through your exams.'Darren Millar AM: Okay, but have you actively considered, then, reducing the level you haveKirsty Williams AM: We've--Ruth Conway: Sorry--I was just going to say that one of the things is looking at the scope of the definition, and I think it's about being more flexible with the definition, rather than reducing the amount per head.Darren Millar

Summarize the extent that the experts consider that the money is being targeted appropriately.

According to Kirsty Williams, when it comes to individual interventions, those individual interventions of PDG should only be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals; but in some cases, schools may use their PDG funding to provide a universal intervention. One of the things that they've used PDG for is the focus on the concept of growth mindset in school, a universal thing that they've trained all the teachers in. There are some other ways to drive the potential of talented and able children, like the example of" a window on the world bus" paid for by schools.

yes, indeed, a C is a success, because you've moved that child on; but, if that child came to you destined to get an A* and gets a C, then we haven't done a good job by that particular child. So, we need a performance measure that is much more sophisticated, looks at each individual child, tracks that progress, and measures the value added by that school in performance.Hefin David AM: Last question: therefore, should we have confidence in the data up to 2016 Is there a lack of confidence in that dataKirsty Williams AM: No, it's not a lack of confidence in the data. The data is the data. What I'm saying is, using that as a performance measure and an accountability measure within our school system may have been right for the time. I think it is now right to have a different way of measuring success in schools. I think that particular set of performance measures has driven certain behaviours--not because Ministers wanted that to happen, but as an unintended consequence. I think we can work together with our school system, learning the lessons of international best practice, to develop much more sophisticated accountability and performance measures for individual schools, and, I should say, for the Government. So, you will be aware of my intention to issue the first national report card on Government performance later on this year. So, this is not about trying to avoid scrutiny. It's about trying to develop a more sophisticated way, which is in line with our national mission, where every child's education is valued, and where the impact of the school can be tracked more effectively.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Can I just ask, Cabinet Secretary, are you still holding on to your target of 37 per cent of that, actually, the number of free-school-meal pupils is dropping. But there can be changes, you know, regional working in areas of north Wales in tourism, or maybe in other areas at Christmas time, parents are able to get a period of work. So, how can we create a more flexible system We're actively looking at that at the moment. I wouldn't use it as an Ever 6 concept, but as an'Ever 2'concept. We have looked at Ever 6, and I'm going to be absolutely blunt with you: to introduce an Ever 6 concept for Wales would mean in the region of identifying an additional PS40 million. I'm going to be absolutely straight and blunt with you: we're not in a position at the moment to be able to identify an additional PS40 million to introduce an Ever 6. But issues around flexibility, certainly, are actively under consideration. In fact, we'll be having a discussion later on today about decisions, going forward, for the next two years.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Darren on this.Darren Millar AM: It's just a very brief point in response to the PS40 million price ticket that you just put on that. That's, of course, assuming that you maintain the current level of PDG, yes So, if you reduced the level of PDG slightly, but made it available to more individuals, if you like, via allocating it in a different way, then that PS40 million price ticket wouldn't be there, would itKirsty Williams AM: I was asked a question about had I ever considered an Ever 6. We have looked at that, we've priced that up. I have to make decisions in the envelope of resources that are available to me. We could, indeed, change the way in which we allocate PDG money, but we steps to put in place the infrastructure to support that.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Mark's questions are next.Mark Reckless AM: Cabinet Secretary, how would you assess the impact of PDG on attendance and hopefully subsequent engagement with education from children who have free school mealsKirsty Williams AM: I think what's important to note is that, as Estyn have themselves said, over the period of the last inspection report, we have seen improvements in attendance, but I do think we need to, again, look at how PDG can support this particular agenda. And as always in the Welsh education system, there are some excellent examples of how schools use the money to address this. Ysgol y Preseli in Pembrokeshire is a very good example of how they've deployed their money. Forgive me; I can't off the top of my head remember the name of the primary school I visited, again in north Wales, where the school has proactively used this money, and they actually send teaching assistants out of school in the morning before the start of the school day, and they actually have a walking bus. They call at homes for children, and they walk the children to the breakfast club. So, they're proactively going out into the community and making sure that those children are in the classrooms, because the teacher said,'We recognised we had a problem with attendance. We tried a variety of means of improving that, but in the end we have taken this quite bold step--we actually send the staff out and they create that walking bus, and they walk the children into school'. They say that they know that, for some of those children, because of the difficult circumstances they and their families are living in, they probably wouldn't be in school if it wasn't So, for instance, if I give you an example in your own region, Llyr: at Brynteg County Primary School in Wrexham, if you look at that primary school in Wrexham, their results for free-school-meal children at the end of their primary school period in school are equivalent to their non-free-school-meal counterparts. So, there is no differentiation in those results. One of the things that they've used their PDG for is to really focus on the concept of growth mindset in school. So, that's a universal thing that they've trained all the teachers in, but what we know is that that has a disproportionate effect on those children who are on free school meals. So, if you're familiar with the concept of a growth mindset, it's about really challenging learners to think that,'I can do things. If sometimes I fail, I pick myself up, I'm more resilient.'Now, that has been, as I said, trained to all the teachers in the school--it's an ethos for the whole school--but we have seen that the impact on the free-school-meal children has been even greater, and now they're at the same level. So, that's the important distinction. Individual intervention per child has to be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals, but sometimes a school will employ a whole-school approach to train their staff, for instance, and that, then, has to demonstrate it has a disproportionate effect on free school meals. So, growth mindset; it may be attachment disorder training for staff, for instance, where we know it's of benefit to everybody, but will have particular benefits for that cohort of students. With regard to more able and talented, you know, Llyr, that this is an area of concern for me, generally, within the Welsh education system; that we've not been for that proactive approach. So, we're looking again at what more we can do to support this particular agenda in terms of improving attendance, because although, again, there are examples of good practice, there is still a gap between the attendance of free-school-meal pupils and non-free-school-meal pupils. And, of course, we can have the best curriculum in the world with really high-quality teaching, but unless the children are in the classes then we're not going to make the difference for them. Whilst that differential exists, then it's going to be hard to close the attainment gap for those children.Mark Reckless AM: I was actually quite shocked just reading in advance of this meeting that the proportion attending 95 per cent or more, who have pretty full attendance, was only 35 per cent for free-school-meal children at level 4, compared to 60 per cent for non-free-school-meal pupils. It still is an extraordinary difference. My colleague here showed me, I think, last week, a graph showing the link between attendance and attainment, in particular. When people were absent, a lot of the--. As I'm sure you're aware, there's a huge connection. What more can PDG do to deal with it In the example you give I can see how a school with an awful lot of free-school-meal children could do that, but a lot of the free-school-meal children are actually in schools that don't have that high a proportion of free school meals, where it would be much more challenging to bring in that type of initiative.Kirsty Williams AM: Yes, indeed, and I think it gets more challenging the older the children get. I think it's more difficult to find interventions that are successful higher up, so key stage 4. So, you can do a walking bus with little ones, can't you,

What do the group think of the question whether the eligibility for free school meals is the best measure

According to Kirsty Williams, it's probably the best that they've got at present, and will continue to have discussions with local government about whether there are different ways. Officials are working all the time in conjunction with the department in England, to understand their thinking in this area so that we are in a position to make some decisions about what a notional eligibility for free school meals will look like going forward, but before I make any decisions, I want to assure everybody that there will be a full public consultation on that.

that, actually, the number of free-school-meal pupils is dropping. But there can be changes, you know, regional working in areas of north Wales in tourism, or maybe in other areas at Christmas time, parents are able to get a period of work. So, how can we create a more flexible system We're actively looking at that at the moment. I wouldn't use it as an Ever 6 concept, but as an'Ever 2'concept. We have looked at Ever 6, and I'm going to be absolutely blunt with you: to introduce an Ever 6 concept for Wales would mean in the region of identifying an additional PS40 million. I'm going to be absolutely straight and blunt with you: we're not in a position at the moment to be able to identify an additional PS40 million to introduce an Ever 6. But issues around flexibility, certainly, are actively under consideration. In fact, we'll be having a discussion later on today about decisions, going forward, for the next two years.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Darren on this.Darren Millar AM: It's just a very brief point in response to the PS40 million price ticket that you just put on that. That's, of course, assuming that you maintain the current level of PDG, yes So, if you reduced the level of PDG slightly, but made it available to more individuals, if you like, via allocating it in a different way, then that PS40 million price ticket wouldn't be there, would itKirsty Williams AM: I was asked a question about had I ever considered an Ever 6. We have looked at that, we've priced that up. I have to make decisions in the envelope of resources that are available to me. We could, indeed, change the way in which we allocate PDG money, but we steps to put in place the infrastructure to support that.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Mark's questions are next.Mark Reckless AM: Cabinet Secretary, how would you assess the impact of PDG on attendance and hopefully subsequent engagement with education from children who have free school mealsKirsty Williams AM: I think what's important to note is that, as Estyn have themselves said, over the period of the last inspection report, we have seen improvements in attendance, but I do think we need to, again, look at how PDG can support this particular agenda. And as always in the Welsh education system, there are some excellent examples of how schools use the money to address this. Ysgol y Preseli in Pembrokeshire is a very good example of how they've deployed their money. Forgive me; I can't off the top of my head remember the name of the primary school I visited, again in north Wales, where the school has proactively used this money, and they actually send teaching assistants out of school in the morning before the start of the school day, and they actually have a walking bus. They call at homes for children, and they walk the children to the breakfast club. So, they're proactively going out into the community and making sure that those children are in the classrooms, because the teacher said,'We recognised we had a problem with attendance. We tried a variety of means of improving that, but in the end we have taken this quite bold step--we actually send the staff out and they create that walking bus, and they walk the children into school'. They say that they know that, for some of those children, because of the difficult circumstances they and their families are living in, they probably wouldn't be in school if it wasn't that evolution of use of PDG is being driven by cuts to core funding.Kirsty Williams AM: No, I don't think it's being driven by cuts to core funding. I think there has been--. One of the biggest impacts of PDG has not been--well, I suppose it is the money in itself, because the money has concentrated the minds, hasn't it So, one of the most important things that PDG has done is highlight the importance of this agenda within schools, and really raise this up in the thinking of leadership and senior management teams in our schools, and has driven a focus on scrutiny and accountability in the systems that are working with our schools. I think the changing use of PDG reflects the journeys that schools have been on, some of them from a very low base where this was not a priority for them, to better understanding, and as research and as intelligence grows over time in this area, both in Wales and outside of Wales, schools are increasingly learning to use that evidence to tailor approaches in their schools.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So you wouldn't accept at all that some of this money's being used to paper over some funding cracks from elsewhere. Because the unions and some others have told us that, whether we like it or not, there is some of that going on.Kirsty Williams AM: As I said, Llyr, we're very clear about the usage that this money can be spent on in terms of individuals or universal application within schools, and that forms an important part of the checks and balances that we have in our system. Can we continue to improve, and ensure that more and more of our schools are employing best practice Yes, we can, and as I've said, we've taken So, for instance, if I give you an example in your own region, Llyr: at Brynteg County Primary School in Wrexham, if you look at that primary school in Wrexham, their results for free-school-meal children at the end of their primary school period in school are equivalent to their non-free-school-meal counterparts. So, there is no differentiation in those results. One of the things that they've used their PDG for is to really focus on the concept of growth mindset in school. So, that's a universal thing that they've trained all the teachers in, but what we know is that that has a disproportionate effect on those children who are on free school meals. So, if you're familiar with the concept of a growth mindset, it's about really challenging learners to think that,'I can do things. If sometimes I fail, I pick myself up, I'm more resilient.'Now, that has been, as I said, trained to all the teachers in the school--it's an ethos for the whole school--but we have seen that the impact on the free-school-meal children has been even greater, and now they're at the same level. So, that's the important distinction. Individual intervention per child has to be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals, but sometimes a school will employ a whole-school approach to train their staff, for instance, and that, then, has to demonstrate it has a disproportionate effect on free school meals. So, growth mindset; it may be attachment disorder training for staff, for instance, where we know it's of benefit to everybody, but will have particular benefits for that cohort of students. With regard to more able and talented, you know, Llyr, that this is an area of concern for me, generally, within the Welsh education system; that we've not been that are subject to those exclusions. Again, I think what schools employing best practice understand is that you need a multi-agency approach to supporting that particular child. Some of those exclusions can be as a result of the need to address other issues going on in a child's life. So, this is where we come back to the committee's work, for instance, on mental health and support for children, support for behaviour in school. So, again, it's a multi-agency approach that I think we need, and, in our good schools, our really, really good schools, there's a recognition of that need to have a whole team around a child to support that child in education. With EOTAS, we made some changes last year regarding PDG for EOTAS. So, for those children who do find themselves in education other than at school, we are providing additional support that previously was not available.Mark Reckless AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. We're going to move on now to talk about the impact of PDG on attainment. Hefin David has got some questions.Hefin David AM: It appears that the attainment gap at 2017 has actually widened, in spite of PDG levels. Is that correctKirsty Williams AM: Yes. So, if you look at it--with the usual caveats about whether you can make direct comparisons on level 2 plus between the exams the year before and the exams that we had last summer--on the face of it, the gap has increased. I think what's important to recognise, Hefin, is a direction of travel. I'm sure we all want to, because I want to, have a discussion about why children on free school meals were less resilient in the exam system last year. But, if we look at the period that we have been employing PDG, over

How do the group think of the extent and condition that schools actually make good use of that funding of PDG

As identified by Estyn, most schools are using this money to good effect. When PDG first started, in some schools it was spent on investing in tracking children, because they had never thought about tracking these children, they didn't have systems in place to look at the performance of these children and to have a system in place. Now they have moved from spending money on the infrastructure around support for FSM children into actual inputs in terms of teaching and learning. And they have appointed regional PDG advisers to better deploy the fund.

that, actually, the number of free-school-meal pupils is dropping. But there can be changes, you know, regional working in areas of north Wales in tourism, or maybe in other areas at Christmas time, parents are able to get a period of work. So, how can we create a more flexible system We're actively looking at that at the moment. I wouldn't use it as an Ever 6 concept, but as an'Ever 2'concept. We have looked at Ever 6, and I'm going to be absolutely blunt with you: to introduce an Ever 6 concept for Wales would mean in the region of identifying an additional PS40 million. I'm going to be absolutely straight and blunt with you: we're not in a position at the moment to be able to identify an additional PS40 million to introduce an Ever 6. But issues around flexibility, certainly, are actively under consideration. In fact, we'll be having a discussion later on today about decisions, going forward, for the next two years.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Darren on this.Darren Millar AM: It's just a very brief point in response to the PS40 million price ticket that you just put on that. That's, of course, assuming that you maintain the current level of PDG, yes So, if you reduced the level of PDG slightly, but made it available to more individuals, if you like, via allocating it in a different way, then that PS40 million price ticket wouldn't be there, would itKirsty Williams AM: I was asked a question about had I ever considered an Ever 6. We have looked at that, we've priced that up. I have to make decisions in the envelope of resources that are available to me. We could, indeed, change the way in which we allocate PDG money, but we steps to put in place the infrastructure to support that.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Mark's questions are next.Mark Reckless AM: Cabinet Secretary, how would you assess the impact of PDG on attendance and hopefully subsequent engagement with education from children who have free school mealsKirsty Williams AM: I think what's important to note is that, as Estyn have themselves said, over the period of the last inspection report, we have seen improvements in attendance, but I do think we need to, again, look at how PDG can support this particular agenda. And as always in the Welsh education system, there are some excellent examples of how schools use the money to address this. Ysgol y Preseli in Pembrokeshire is a very good example of how they've deployed their money. Forgive me; I can't off the top of my head remember the name of the primary school I visited, again in north Wales, where the school has proactively used this money, and they actually send teaching assistants out of school in the morning before the start of the school day, and they actually have a walking bus. They call at homes for children, and they walk the children to the breakfast club. So, they're proactively going out into the community and making sure that those children are in the classrooms, because the teacher said,'We recognised we had a problem with attendance. We tried a variety of means of improving that, but in the end we have taken this quite bold step--we actually send the staff out and they create that walking bus, and they walk the children into school'. They say that they know that, for some of those children, because of the difficult circumstances they and their families are living in, they probably wouldn't be in school if it wasn't Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this morning's Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members who are present if they wish to declare any interests Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is our final evidence session for our inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Cabinet Secretary for Education; Steve Davies, director of the education directorate; and Ruth Conway, deputy director, support for learners division. Welcome to all of you, and thank you for your attendance and also for the paper that you've provided in advance. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions, and the first questions are from Llyr Gruffydd.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Bore da. I just want to start by asking some questions around the targeting of the pupil development grant because, clearly, we've had a lot of evidence around this apparent blurring of eligibility to an extent. I'm just wondering how comfortable you are that the money is being targeted appropriately because, clearly, it's being targeted more widely than just those eligible for free school meals, from some of the evidence we've had, but also that it seems to be predominantly focused on low-attaining frees--pupils who are eligible for free school meals.Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you, Llyr. I think it's important to be absolutely clear that when it comes to individual interventions, those individual interventions should only be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals. But in some cases, schools may use their PDG funding to provide a universal intervention, but we would want to--in challenge advisers'discussions in schools--we'd want to have evidence that that universal intervention would have a disproportionate effect on the outcomes for children on free school meals. for that proactive approach. So, we're looking again at what more we can do to support this particular agenda in terms of improving attendance, because although, again, there are examples of good practice, there is still a gap between the attendance of free-school-meal pupils and non-free-school-meal pupils. And, of course, we can have the best curriculum in the world with really high-quality teaching, but unless the children are in the classes then we're not going to make the difference for them. Whilst that differential exists, then it's going to be hard to close the attainment gap for those children.Mark Reckless AM: I was actually quite shocked just reading in advance of this meeting that the proportion attending 95 per cent or more, who have pretty full attendance, was only 35 per cent for free-school-meal children at level 4, compared to 60 per cent for non-free-school-meal pupils. It still is an extraordinary difference. My colleague here showed me, I think, last week, a graph showing the link between attendance and attainment, in particular. When people were absent, a lot of the--. As I'm sure you're aware, there's a huge connection. What more can PDG do to deal with it In the example you give I can see how a school with an awful lot of free-school-meal children could do that, but a lot of the free-school-meal children are actually in schools that don't have that high a proportion of free school meals, where it would be much more challenging to bring in that type of initiative.Kirsty Williams AM: Yes, indeed, and I think it gets more challenging the older the children get. I think it's more difficult to find interventions that are successful higher up, so key stage 4. So, you can do a walking bus with little ones, can't you, that evolution of use of PDG is being driven by cuts to core funding.Kirsty Williams AM: No, I don't think it's being driven by cuts to core funding. I think there has been--. One of the biggest impacts of PDG has not been--well, I suppose it is the money in itself, because the money has concentrated the minds, hasn't it So, one of the most important things that PDG has done is highlight the importance of this agenda within schools, and really raise this up in the thinking of leadership and senior management teams in our schools, and has driven a focus on scrutiny and accountability in the systems that are working with our schools. I think the changing use of PDG reflects the journeys that schools have been on, some of them from a very low base where this was not a priority for them, to better understanding, and as research and as intelligence grows over time in this area, both in Wales and outside of Wales, schools are increasingly learning to use that evidence to tailor approaches in their schools.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So you wouldn't accept at all that some of this money's being used to paper over some funding cracks from elsewhere. Because the unions and some others have told us that, whether we like it or not, there is some of that going on.Kirsty Williams AM: As I said, Llyr, we're very clear about the usage that this money can be spent on in terms of individuals or universal application within schools, and that forms an important part of the checks and balances that we have in our system. Can we continue to improve, and ensure that more and more of our schools are employing best practice Yes, we can, and as I've said, we've taken

How would the group assess the impact of PDG on attendance and subsequent engagement with education from children having free school meals

Over the period of the last inspection report, they have seen improvements in attendance, but still need to look at again how PDG can support this particular agenda. There are some excellent examples of how schools use the money to address this, some schools send the staff out and create walking buses, so that they walk the children into the school. Despite these good measures, there is still a gap between the attendance of free-school-meal pupils and non-free-school-meal pupils. It gets more challenging the older the children get.

yes, indeed, a C is a success, because you've moved that child on; but, if that child came to you destined to get an A* and gets a C, then we haven't done a good job by that particular child. So, we need a performance measure that is much more sophisticated, looks at each individual child, tracks that progress, and measures the value added by that school in performance.Hefin David AM: Last question: therefore, should we have confidence in the data up to 2016 Is there a lack of confidence in that dataKirsty Williams AM: No, it's not a lack of confidence in the data. The data is the data. What I'm saying is, using that as a performance measure and an accountability measure within our school system may have been right for the time. I think it is now right to have a different way of measuring success in schools. I think that particular set of performance measures has driven certain behaviours--not because Ministers wanted that to happen, but as an unintended consequence. I think we can work together with our school system, learning the lessons of international best practice, to develop much more sophisticated accountability and performance measures for individual schools, and, I should say, for the Government. So, you will be aware of my intention to issue the first national report card on Government performance later on this year. So, this is not about trying to avoid scrutiny. It's about trying to develop a more sophisticated way, which is in line with our national mission, where every child's education is valued, and where the impact of the school can be tracked more effectively.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Can I just ask, Cabinet Secretary, are you still holding on to your target of 37 per cent of that, actually, the number of free-school-meal pupils is dropping. But there can be changes, you know, regional working in areas of north Wales in tourism, or maybe in other areas at Christmas time, parents are able to get a period of work. So, how can we create a more flexible system We're actively looking at that at the moment. I wouldn't use it as an Ever 6 concept, but as an'Ever 2'concept. We have looked at Ever 6, and I'm going to be absolutely blunt with you: to introduce an Ever 6 concept for Wales would mean in the region of identifying an additional PS40 million. I'm going to be absolutely straight and blunt with you: we're not in a position at the moment to be able to identify an additional PS40 million to introduce an Ever 6. But issues around flexibility, certainly, are actively under consideration. In fact, we'll be having a discussion later on today about decisions, going forward, for the next two years.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Darren on this.Darren Millar AM: It's just a very brief point in response to the PS40 million price ticket that you just put on that. That's, of course, assuming that you maintain the current level of PDG, yes So, if you reduced the level of PDG slightly, but made it available to more individuals, if you like, via allocating it in a different way, then that PS40 million price ticket wouldn't be there, would itKirsty Williams AM: I was asked a question about had I ever considered an Ever 6. We have looked at that, we've priced that up. I have to make decisions in the envelope of resources that are available to me. We could, indeed, change the way in which we allocate PDG money, but we who has put so much personal investment into the brand of schools challenges, that he would not want anybody to characterise that particular approach to school improvement as a failure. And I want to be absolutely clear that I have never described the programme as a failure, and I want to reassure Mr Ainscow of that. As I've said, gosh, my goodness me, if you saw my e-mail inbox and you saw the letters that come in, people are never shy in coming forward to give me advice on what I need to do, what I need to do next, what I'm doing right, what I'm doing wrong, and, you know, our doors are always open to listen to people who have interesting things to say about how we can deliver our educational mission. So, people aren't slow in coming forward, I can assure you, with advice.Lynne Neagle AM: Julie.Julie Morgan AM: Just very quickly. I'm sure the Minister is aware that Cardiff put extra funds of its own in to continue Schools Challenge Cymru advisers. So, obviously, they appreciated the value of the scheme, but it does query whether it should have gone on longer.Kirsty Williams AM: Julie, I think, to be fair, there are some people who think the scheme was absolutely fantastic. I've had feedback from people who didn't think the scheme was helpful at all--in fact, they felt it was a hindrance. I'm very much of the view that the scheme worked really well for some schools in some areas and had less impact in some areas. There is a mixed picture. What's important to me is that we understand what it was that led those schools to make those big changes, how we can--like Mark talked about, the expertise--how we can keep that expertise in steps to put in place the infrastructure to support that.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Mark's questions are next.Mark Reckless AM: Cabinet Secretary, how would you assess the impact of PDG on attendance and hopefully subsequent engagement with education from children who have free school mealsKirsty Williams AM: I think what's important to note is that, as Estyn have themselves said, over the period of the last inspection report, we have seen improvements in attendance, but I do think we need to, again, look at how PDG can support this particular agenda. And as always in the Welsh education system, there are some excellent examples of how schools use the money to address this. Ysgol y Preseli in Pembrokeshire is a very good example of how they've deployed their money. Forgive me; I can't off the top of my head remember the name of the primary school I visited, again in north Wales, where the school has proactively used this money, and they actually send teaching assistants out of school in the morning before the start of the school day, and they actually have a walking bus. They call at homes for children, and they walk the children to the breakfast club. So, they're proactively going out into the community and making sure that those children are in the classrooms, because the teacher said,'We recognised we had a problem with attendance. We tried a variety of means of improving that, but in the end we have taken this quite bold step--we actually send the staff out and they create that walking bus, and they walk the children into school'. They say that they know that, for some of those children, because of the difficult circumstances they and their families are living in, they probably wouldn't be in school if it wasn't that period, we have seen a narrowing of the gap. I think what's quite stark, if we think about it--. So, if we look at where we started from: in 2009, one in five children on free school meals got level 2 plus--one in five--by 2016, we had got that down to one in three. Obviously, there's still a way to go, but, Sir Alasdair, who knows about these things, says that that is a significant improvement. Last year, we got some challenges. We need to understand why that happened, but I do think it's--Hefin David AM: Why, do you thinkKirsty Williams AM: Why, do I think What I do think is there is no one answer. There is no one answer to this. I think we could look at and we can have discussions around the move from BTEC to science GCSEs. I think we have supplied figures to the committee about the significant change in the number of children on free school meals who weren't doing a single science GCSE and are now doing science GCSEs. We can look at the unintended consequences of literature. Again, we've supplied figures. Where children have done language and literature, whether that be through the medium of English or through the medium of Welsh, there is more resilience. So, it's that exposure to literacy in all its forms that I think could potentially make a difference. So, I think there's no one answer to why free-school-meal children were not so resilient last year. We continue to have discussions with Qualifications Wales to get a better understanding of this. At my next ministerial policy board, in May, we'll be doing a deep dive into this particular subject.Hefin David AM: So, to what extent would exam boards be responsible for lack of grade stabilityKirsty

Summarize the discussion about why children on free school meals were less resilient in the exam system last year.

According to Kirsty Williams, there is no specific answer. There's no single reason why there seems to be less resilience in this cohort of children. They think that they can't draw broad-brush conclusions. The challenge is to go into individual schools and understand what was happening in that particular school that ensured that their children did really well. They continue to have discussions with Qualifications Wales to get a better understanding of this, and in May, they'll be doing a deep dive into this particular subject.

steps to put in place the infrastructure to support that.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Mark's questions are next.Mark Reckless AM: Cabinet Secretary, how would you assess the impact of PDG on attendance and hopefully subsequent engagement with education from children who have free school mealsKirsty Williams AM: I think what's important to note is that, as Estyn have themselves said, over the period of the last inspection report, we have seen improvements in attendance, but I do think we need to, again, look at how PDG can support this particular agenda. And as always in the Welsh education system, there are some excellent examples of how schools use the money to address this. Ysgol y Preseli in Pembrokeshire is a very good example of how they've deployed their money. Forgive me; I can't off the top of my head remember the name of the primary school I visited, again in north Wales, where the school has proactively used this money, and they actually send teaching assistants out of school in the morning before the start of the school day, and they actually have a walking bus. They call at homes for children, and they walk the children to the breakfast club. So, they're proactively going out into the community and making sure that those children are in the classrooms, because the teacher said,'We recognised we had a problem with attendance. We tried a variety of means of improving that, but in the end we have taken this quite bold step--we actually send the staff out and they create that walking bus, and they walk the children into school'. They say that they know that, for some of those children, because of the difficult circumstances they and their families are living in, they probably wouldn't be in school if it wasn't that are subject to those exclusions. Again, I think what schools employing best practice understand is that you need a multi-agency approach to supporting that particular child. Some of those exclusions can be as a result of the need to address other issues going on in a child's life. So, this is where we come back to the committee's work, for instance, on mental health and support for children, support for behaviour in school. So, again, it's a multi-agency approach that I think we need, and, in our good schools, our really, really good schools, there's a recognition of that need to have a whole team around a child to support that child in education. With EOTAS, we made some changes last year regarding PDG for EOTAS. So, for those children who do find themselves in education other than at school, we are providing additional support that previously was not available.Mark Reckless AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. We're going to move on now to talk about the impact of PDG on attainment. Hefin David has got some questions.Hefin David AM: It appears that the attainment gap at 2017 has actually widened, in spite of PDG levels. Is that correctKirsty Williams AM: Yes. So, if you look at it--with the usual caveats about whether you can make direct comparisons on level 2 plus between the exams the year before and the exams that we had last summer--on the face of it, the gap has increased. I think what's important to recognise, Hefin, is a direction of travel. I'm sure we all want to, because I want to, have a discussion about why children on free school meals were less resilient in the exam system last year. But, if we look at the period that we have been employing PDG, over teaching and learning. We're also seeing from Estyn that, actually, in terms of money following the evidence of what we know works, Estyn says that PDG is probably the best example of schools following tried and tested and evidence-based interventions to deploy the money. But clearly we want all of this money to be deployed as well as it can be, and again we come back to the decision I've made to appoint regional PDG advisers so that we can get that better consistency of approach. We are, in the discussions that I have with the regional consortia about how they challenge individual schools on usage, looking for very clear evidence of schools using the Sutton Trust toolkit, and we could have a discussion about whether that's the right thing, because that's on my mind too. But we want to see schools demonstrating their evidence base, and if they're not, if a school isn't doing that, okay, so demonstrate to us why you've made those decisions and, crucially, what are you doing as the school to judge whether that decision is actually making a difference for your individual pupils. So, if you're moving away from tried and tested interventions, what we know works, if you're doing something different with your money, okay, you need to justify that and you need to explain how you're going to demonstrate impact. But I think what we're seeing is increasing good practice in this area as the PDG develops and as our understanding of our school-to-school working in our self-improving school system also develops. I think we're seeing better usage of the money year on year.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Llyr on this.Llyr Gruffydd AM: You mentioned some schools will be moving from the tried-and-tested interventions, really, and I'm just wondering to what extent it's happening across all of our schools. So, you're--Llyr Gruffydd AM: But not just in relation to more able and talented, I'm referring to the eligibility and the targeting.Kirsty Williams AM: Oh, the eligibility. You'll be aware that, on the advice of Sir Alasdair, we have employed and appointed new PDG regional advisers, and I think their role is going to be absolutely crucial in spreading that good practice across the region, whether that's use of PDG for more able and talented, or ensuring that PDG is used in the appropriate way. So, that's there to provide strategic overall advice. And obviously, we have been very clear with regional challenge advisers, in the relationship and the conversations they're having with individual schools, that they're really challenging their schools about the use of PDG, not just in terms of targeting, but the programmes, what the money is being spent on, whether there is an evidence base for that and whether we are clear on impact. So, I think the new regional advisers are going to be crucial in enabling us to ensure more consistent practice across the regions.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, are you content that eligibility for free school meals is the best measure, really, of identifying which pupils to targetKirsty Williams AM: Llyr, in the absence of anything better. I'll be the first person to say that maybe it's not as absolutely focused, but in the absence of anything different to identify a proxy for need, I think it's probably the best that we've got at present. And we will continue to have discussions with local government about whether there are different ways. We have to be mindful. Some of the policy levers in this area are out of my hands, so if we look at the roll-out of universal particularly good at identifying, supporting and driving attainment for those children. I'm absolutely clear that PDG needs to be used for those children who are eligible to drive potential, whatever the potential of that child is, including more able and talented. And again, I'll give you an example that has been seen as good practice in Pembrokeshire: a window on the world bus, again paid for by schools. I don't know if you're aware of it.Llyr Gruffydd AM: We've heard about that.Kirsty Williams AM: Oh, you've heard about it; well, it's a really good example the window on the world. And, again, that's very much targeted at raising aspirations and giving children who are more able and talented, who are eligible for PDG, those experiences, and to really push them. So, yes, I'm absolutely clear that PDG shouldn't just be seen to be getting individuals to the average. For those children who are more able and talented, it should be used to support them--Llyr Gruffydd AM: And we all share those aspirations, I'm sure, and you pointed to examples of good practice, but of course, it's not universal, is it, so what I'm asking is: do you think that the guidance is sufficient as it is Do you think that there's a great enough awareness of how the PDG should be used at the coalface And also, are you confident that consortia and others have the measures in place to be able to demonstrate that it is being used properlyKirsty Williams AM: I think, if we look at what Estyn has said about PDG, it does actually recognise that the PDG is being used to push more able and talented children, but as always with the system, Llyr, it's whether we can be sure that that is strategic and that

What is the role of schools with PDG for looked-after children as compared to the regional consortia in this field

The most awareness around PDG is around free school meals, and there is less awareness around the availability of PDG to support looked-after children. In the nature of the cohort, there are more children subject to free school meals than are subject to being looked after. The thinking behind that at the time was around a greater strategic deployment of that resource and to try and drive a greater impact than how it was being used previously, so the looked-after PDG is held at a regional level.

steps to put in place the infrastructure to support that.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Mark's questions are next.Mark Reckless AM: Cabinet Secretary, how would you assess the impact of PDG on attendance and hopefully subsequent engagement with education from children who have free school mealsKirsty Williams AM: I think what's important to note is that, as Estyn have themselves said, over the period of the last inspection report, we have seen improvements in attendance, but I do think we need to, again, look at how PDG can support this particular agenda. And as always in the Welsh education system, there are some excellent examples of how schools use the money to address this. Ysgol y Preseli in Pembrokeshire is a very good example of how they've deployed their money. Forgive me; I can't off the top of my head remember the name of the primary school I visited, again in north Wales, where the school has proactively used this money, and they actually send teaching assistants out of school in the morning before the start of the school day, and they actually have a walking bus. They call at homes for children, and they walk the children to the breakfast club. So, they're proactively going out into the community and making sure that those children are in the classrooms, because the teacher said,'We recognised we had a problem with attendance. We tried a variety of means of improving that, but in the end we have taken this quite bold step--we actually send the staff out and they create that walking bus, and they walk the children into school'. They say that they know that, for some of those children, because of the difficult circumstances they and their families are living in, they probably wouldn't be in school if it wasn't that evolution of use of PDG is being driven by cuts to core funding.Kirsty Williams AM: No, I don't think it's being driven by cuts to core funding. I think there has been--. One of the biggest impacts of PDG has not been--well, I suppose it is the money in itself, because the money has concentrated the minds, hasn't it So, one of the most important things that PDG has done is highlight the importance of this agenda within schools, and really raise this up in the thinking of leadership and senior management teams in our schools, and has driven a focus on scrutiny and accountability in the systems that are working with our schools. I think the changing use of PDG reflects the journeys that schools have been on, some of them from a very low base where this was not a priority for them, to better understanding, and as research and as intelligence grows over time in this area, both in Wales and outside of Wales, schools are increasingly learning to use that evidence to tailor approaches in their schools.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So you wouldn't accept at all that some of this money's being used to paper over some funding cracks from elsewhere. Because the unions and some others have told us that, whether we like it or not, there is some of that going on.Kirsty Williams AM: As I said, Llyr, we're very clear about the usage that this money can be spent on in terms of individuals or universal application within schools, and that forms an important part of the checks and balances that we have in our system. Can we continue to improve, and ensure that more and more of our schools are employing best practice Yes, we can, and as I've said, we've taken teaching and learning. We're also seeing from Estyn that, actually, in terms of money following the evidence of what we know works, Estyn says that PDG is probably the best example of schools following tried and tested and evidence-based interventions to deploy the money. But clearly we want all of this money to be deployed as well as it can be, and again we come back to the decision I've made to appoint regional PDG advisers so that we can get that better consistency of approach. We are, in the discussions that I have with the regional consortia about how they challenge individual schools on usage, looking for very clear evidence of schools using the Sutton Trust toolkit, and we could have a discussion about whether that's the right thing, because that's on my mind too. But we want to see schools demonstrating their evidence base, and if they're not, if a school isn't doing that, okay, so demonstrate to us why you've made those decisions and, crucially, what are you doing as the school to judge whether that decision is actually making a difference for your individual pupils. So, if you're moving away from tried and tested interventions, what we know works, if you're doing something different with your money, okay, you need to justify that and you need to explain how you're going to demonstrate impact. But I think what we're seeing is increasing good practice in this area as the PDG develops and as our understanding of our school-to-school working in our self-improving school system also develops. I think we're seeing better usage of the money year on year.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Llyr on this.Llyr Gruffydd AM: You mentioned some schools will be moving from the tried-and-tested interventions, really, and I'm just wondering to what extent AM: Okay. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. If we can go on, then, to talk about some of the practical uses of the PDG, you write in your written paper that'the majority of schools are making well thought out and appropriate decisions'on how to use it. But Estyn reported that only two thirds of primary and secondary schools make effective use of the PDG. Given that we've had it now for six years, would you not have expected there to be a higher level of schools actually making good use of that fundingKirsty Williams AM: Well, to flip it on its head, the vast majority of schools, as identified by Estyn, are using this money to good effect. So, that's the way I like to see it--that the vast majority of schools are doing well. What Estyn has also indicated is the intrinsic link here to leadership within individual schools, and as you'll be aware, leadership, improving capacity in leadership and developing leadership talent in the Welsh education system is a key priority for me in our national mission. Of course, that's being developed in a different work stream. I think what's fair to say is that the use of PDG is evolving over time. I think we are seeing, increasingly, more and more schools understanding how best to deploy that money for best effect for students. So, if we're honest, when PDG first started, I think, in some schools it was spent on investing in tracking of children, because they'd never thought about tracking these children, they didn't have systems in place to look at the performance of these children, and to have a system in place. So we've moved now from spending money on the infrastructure around support for FSM children into actual inputs in terms of that are subject to those exclusions. Again, I think what schools employing best practice understand is that you need a multi-agency approach to supporting that particular child. Some of those exclusions can be as a result of the need to address other issues going on in a child's life. So, this is where we come back to the committee's work, for instance, on mental health and support for children, support for behaviour in school. So, again, it's a multi-agency approach that I think we need, and, in our good schools, our really, really good schools, there's a recognition of that need to have a whole team around a child to support that child in education. With EOTAS, we made some changes last year regarding PDG for EOTAS. So, for those children who do find themselves in education other than at school, we are providing additional support that previously was not available.Mark Reckless AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. We're going to move on now to talk about the impact of PDG on attainment. Hefin David has got some questions.Hefin David AM: It appears that the attainment gap at 2017 has actually widened, in spite of PDG levels. Is that correctKirsty Williams AM: Yes. So, if you look at it--with the usual caveats about whether you can make direct comparisons on level 2 plus between the exams the year before and the exams that we had last summer--on the face of it, the gap has increased. I think what's important to recognise, Hefin, is a direction of travel. I'm sure we all want to, because I want to, have a discussion about why children on free school meals were less resilient in the exam system last year. But, if we look at the period that we have been employing PDG, over

What does the group think of the EAS consortium's approach to using the looked-after and adopted PDG as part of a broader approach targeted at vulnerable learners

They believe that if they can get it right for our most vulnerable learners, they'll be getting it right for all of our learners. An emerging theme is the impact, the growing awareness and the growing numbers of children who have attachment disorder, and how schools are best able to respond to that in their children. So, vulnerable learners, regardless of their background, will benefit from having teachers who are better trained, understanding and have intervention strategies in place to be able to address that need. And this is an action applied across four regions.

Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this morning's Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members who are present if they wish to declare any interests Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is our final evidence session for our inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Cabinet Secretary for Education; Steve Davies, director of the education directorate; and Ruth Conway, deputy director, support for learners division. Welcome to all of you, and thank you for your attendance and also for the paper that you've provided in advance. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions, and the first questions are from Llyr Gruffydd.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Bore da. I just want to start by asking some questions around the targeting of the pupil development grant because, clearly, we've had a lot of evidence around this apparent blurring of eligibility to an extent. I'm just wondering how comfortable you are that the money is being targeted appropriately because, clearly, it's being targeted more widely than just those eligible for free school meals, from some of the evidence we've had, but also that it seems to be predominantly focused on low-attaining frees--pupils who are eligible for free school meals.Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you, Llyr. I think it's important to be absolutely clear that when it comes to individual interventions, those individual interventions should only be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals. But in some cases, schools may use their PDG funding to provide a universal intervention, but we would want to--in challenge advisers'discussions in schools--we'd want to have evidence that that universal intervention would have a disproportionate effect on the outcomes for children on free school meals. that are subject to those exclusions. Again, I think what schools employing best practice understand is that you need a multi-agency approach to supporting that particular child. Some of those exclusions can be as a result of the need to address other issues going on in a child's life. So, this is where we come back to the committee's work, for instance, on mental health and support for children, support for behaviour in school. So, again, it's a multi-agency approach that I think we need, and, in our good schools, our really, really good schools, there's a recognition of that need to have a whole team around a child to support that child in education. With EOTAS, we made some changes last year regarding PDG for EOTAS. So, for those children who do find themselves in education other than at school, we are providing additional support that previously was not available.Mark Reckless AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. We're going to move on now to talk about the impact of PDG on attainment. Hefin David has got some questions.Hefin David AM: It appears that the attainment gap at 2017 has actually widened, in spite of PDG levels. Is that correctKirsty Williams AM: Yes. So, if you look at it--with the usual caveats about whether you can make direct comparisons on level 2 plus between the exams the year before and the exams that we had last summer--on the face of it, the gap has increased. I think what's important to recognise, Hefin, is a direction of travel. I'm sure we all want to, because I want to, have a discussion about why children on free school meals were less resilient in the exam system last year. But, if we look at the period that we have been employing PDG, over the system, and how we can apply the lessons to all schools.Lynne Neagle AM: The next questions, and the final questions, are from John. So, we're going to need succinct questions and succinct answers.John Griffiths AM: Some questions on regional consortia, Cabinet Secretary, and, first of all, the role that you believe they should play and how schools use PDG.Kirsty Williams AM: Well, it's an absolute--. It's one of the things that I have been very clear to the regional consortia that I expect their challenge and support advisers to be asking schools about. So, one of the conversations that they need to have when they are in schools is exploring, with that school, how they are using their PDG, and how they're demonstrating an impact for those resources. So, it's a fundamental role for the challenge and support advisers in the regional consortia in their school improvement work. It's crucial.John Griffiths AM: That sort of brings to mind some of the research that's been done on the role of the challenge advisers, Cabinet Secretary, which suggested that they're not actually challenging schools in that way, and that there's very little evidence of schools changing their decisions on the use of PDG as a result of any challenge from those challenge advisers. So, how would you respond to those findingsKirsty Williams AM: Well, as I said, in my scrutiny of the role and success of our regional consortia, I specifically asked them about free-school-meal performance and the use of PDG within their particular region. I think there is increasing evidence to suggest that good use is being made of that resource, and I think that is being fed back into us. Estyn tell us that it's one of the areas of school expenditure that is closely linked to research and but I don't suppose your average 15 or 16-year-old is going to take very kindly to that. So, you do need a different approach to that. But again, we see in Ysgol y Preseli the employment of staff to directly work with families of older children to reinforce the messages around, as you quite rightly say, the linkage between attendance and attainment, and really work with individual families to understand the barriers to attendance: what's going on in the family that is preventing that child from going to school, and what more can the school do to address those situations. But you're absolutely right; there is more that we need to do to address this particular agenda of attainment. I don't know if there's anything extra you wanted to add, Steve.Steve Davies: There is also another very good example--and I take what you say about where there are small numbers--but in our secondary schools where there are significant numbers, they're investing PDG in resources like a school nurse and a school counsellor, not just to work with the children but link to other agencies on whom the children and the families are dependent to support them in terms of working with schools. So, it's something, particularly in our most challenging areas, where it cannot just be delivered within the school. So, good use of that resource is being made to employ people to support them in those wider areas.Mark Reckless AM: Thank you. To what extent is PDG also used to seek to reduce the higher rates of exclusion for children entitled to free school mealsKirsty Williams AM: So, if we looked at permanent exclusions, there isn't a differential, but if we look at temporary exclusions, there we see there is a disproportionate number of children on free school meals it's happening across all of our schools. So, you're--Llyr Gruffydd AM: But not just in relation to more able and talented, I'm referring to the eligibility and the targeting.Kirsty Williams AM: Oh, the eligibility. You'll be aware that, on the advice of Sir Alasdair, we have employed and appointed new PDG regional advisers, and I think their role is going to be absolutely crucial in spreading that good practice across the region, whether that's use of PDG for more able and talented, or ensuring that PDG is used in the appropriate way. So, that's there to provide strategic overall advice. And obviously, we have been very clear with regional challenge advisers, in the relationship and the conversations they're having with individual schools, that they're really challenging their schools about the use of PDG, not just in terms of targeting, but the programmes, what the money is being spent on, whether there is an evidence base for that and whether we are clear on impact. So, I think the new regional advisers are going to be crucial in enabling us to ensure more consistent practice across the regions.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, are you content that eligibility for free school meals is the best measure, really, of identifying which pupils to targetKirsty Williams AM: Llyr, in the absence of anything better. I'll be the first person to say that maybe it's not as absolutely focused, but in the absence of anything different to identify a proxy for need, I think it's probably the best that we've got at present. And we will continue to have discussions with local government about whether there are different ways. We have to be mindful. Some of the policy levers in this area are out of my hands, so if we look at the roll-out of universal

What does the group discuss about the dataset on tracking adopted children

According to Kirsty Williams, they are actively looking at whether they should try and find a way of collecting this data. They can't force parents to divulge information that is a matter for them. But there is an active discussion going on at the moment about whether they could create a dataset where people divulge this information and we can then track the children through. They can't see the educational attainment of looked-after children just being a job of education. It has to be a job of social services and the health service as well.

Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this morning's Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members who are present if they wish to declare any interests Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is our final evidence session for our inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Cabinet Secretary for Education; Steve Davies, director of the education directorate; and Ruth Conway, deputy director, support for learners division. Welcome to all of you, and thank you for your attendance and also for the paper that you've provided in advance. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions, and the first questions are from Llyr Gruffydd.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Bore da. I just want to start by asking some questions around the targeting of the pupil development grant because, clearly, we've had a lot of evidence around this apparent blurring of eligibility to an extent. I'm just wondering how comfortable you are that the money is being targeted appropriately because, clearly, it's being targeted more widely than just those eligible for free school meals, from some of the evidence we've had, but also that it seems to be predominantly focused on low-attaining frees--pupils who are eligible for free school meals.Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you, Llyr. I think it's important to be absolutely clear that when it comes to individual interventions, those individual interventions should only be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals. But in some cases, schools may use their PDG funding to provide a universal intervention, but we would want to--in challenge advisers'discussions in schools--we'd want to have evidence that that universal intervention would have a disproportionate effect on the outcomes for children on free school meals. for that proactive approach. So, we're looking again at what more we can do to support this particular agenda in terms of improving attendance, because although, again, there are examples of good practice, there is still a gap between the attendance of free-school-meal pupils and non-free-school-meal pupils. And, of course, we can have the best curriculum in the world with really high-quality teaching, but unless the children are in the classes then we're not going to make the difference for them. Whilst that differential exists, then it's going to be hard to close the attainment gap for those children.Mark Reckless AM: I was actually quite shocked just reading in advance of this meeting that the proportion attending 95 per cent or more, who have pretty full attendance, was only 35 per cent for free-school-meal children at level 4, compared to 60 per cent for non-free-school-meal pupils. It still is an extraordinary difference. My colleague here showed me, I think, last week, a graph showing the link between attendance and attainment, in particular. When people were absent, a lot of the--. As I'm sure you're aware, there's a huge connection. What more can PDG do to deal with it In the example you give I can see how a school with an awful lot of free-school-meal children could do that, but a lot of the free-school-meal children are actually in schools that don't have that high a proportion of free school meals, where it would be much more challenging to bring in that type of initiative.Kirsty Williams AM: Yes, indeed, and I think it gets more challenging the older the children get. I think it's more difficult to find interventions that are successful higher up, so key stage 4. So, you can do a walking bus with little ones, can't you, So, for instance, if I give you an example in your own region, Llyr: at Brynteg County Primary School in Wrexham, if you look at that primary school in Wrexham, their results for free-school-meal children at the end of their primary school period in school are equivalent to their non-free-school-meal counterparts. So, there is no differentiation in those results. One of the things that they've used their PDG for is to really focus on the concept of growth mindset in school. So, that's a universal thing that they've trained all the teachers in, but what we know is that that has a disproportionate effect on those children who are on free school meals. So, if you're familiar with the concept of a growth mindset, it's about really challenging learners to think that,'I can do things. If sometimes I fail, I pick myself up, I'm more resilient.'Now, that has been, as I said, trained to all the teachers in the school--it's an ethos for the whole school--but we have seen that the impact on the free-school-meal children has been even greater, and now they're at the same level. So, that's the important distinction. Individual intervention per child has to be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals, but sometimes a school will employ a whole-school approach to train their staff, for instance, and that, then, has to demonstrate it has a disproportionate effect on free school meals. So, growth mindset; it may be attachment disorder training for staff, for instance, where we know it's of benefit to everybody, but will have particular benefits for that cohort of students. With regard to more able and talented, you know, Llyr, that this is an area of concern for me, generally, within the Welsh education system; that we've not been that are subject to those exclusions. Again, I think what schools employing best practice understand is that you need a multi-agency approach to supporting that particular child. Some of those exclusions can be as a result of the need to address other issues going on in a child's life. So, this is where we come back to the committee's work, for instance, on mental health and support for children, support for behaviour in school. So, again, it's a multi-agency approach that I think we need, and, in our good schools, our really, really good schools, there's a recognition of that need to have a whole team around a child to support that child in education. With EOTAS, we made some changes last year regarding PDG for EOTAS. So, for those children who do find themselves in education other than at school, we are providing additional support that previously was not available.Mark Reckless AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. We're going to move on now to talk about the impact of PDG on attainment. Hefin David has got some questions.Hefin David AM: It appears that the attainment gap at 2017 has actually widened, in spite of PDG levels. Is that correctKirsty Williams AM: Yes. So, if you look at it--with the usual caveats about whether you can make direct comparisons on level 2 plus between the exams the year before and the exams that we had last summer--on the face of it, the gap has increased. I think what's important to recognise, Hefin, is a direction of travel. I'm sure we all want to, because I want to, have a discussion about why children on free school meals were less resilient in the exam system last year. But, if we look at the period that we have been employing PDG, over Williams AM: It could be one of the contributory factors. What I think is important is that there is no one, single reason why there seems to be less resilience in this cohort of children.Hefin David AM: Will you be speaking to the exam boards about this and raising concernsKirsty Williams AM: I have written to Qualifications Wales, we've had discussions about it, but I've asked them to formally submit evidence ahead of my policy board for May, where, as I said, we will be doing a formal, deep-dive discussion across the department about these issues. But, again, Hefin, what we've got to be clear on is--while we look at overall factors, you know, our overall national statistic--we did see some schools last year whose FSM performance was better than it had been the year before. So, what was it in those schools that enabled those children to do really well, whereas, in other schools, the performance was different Even in individual cities, you can see a huge variety of performance. So, take Cardiff and Swansea, our two biggest cities. You've got schools in those cities with comparative levels of free school meals. So, you could have really high-performing schools with a very small number of the cohort on free school meals. The difference between those performances in a single city--so, that's the same local education authority and the same regional consortium--you can see a massive change. There's one school I can talk to: their free-school-meal performance is 88 per cent. A similar school in the same city with the same proportion of children on free school meals, their performance is down in the 20 per cents. So, I think what's important is that we can't draw broad-brush conclusions. For me, the challenge is to go into individual schools and

What does the group think of the exclusion rates amongst looked-after children (over six times more likely to be given a fixed-term exclusion)

According to Kirsty Williams, people should look at exclusions and also have to read across about how the whole system works, not just the PDG element of the system. 66% of looked-after learners have some additional learning need, so they can't just look at it in terms of this particular source of funding. It can't be just the job of the PDG.

steps to put in place the infrastructure to support that.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Mark's questions are next.Mark Reckless AM: Cabinet Secretary, how would you assess the impact of PDG on attendance and hopefully subsequent engagement with education from children who have free school mealsKirsty Williams AM: I think what's important to note is that, as Estyn have themselves said, over the period of the last inspection report, we have seen improvements in attendance, but I do think we need to, again, look at how PDG can support this particular agenda. And as always in the Welsh education system, there are some excellent examples of how schools use the money to address this. Ysgol y Preseli in Pembrokeshire is a very good example of how they've deployed their money. Forgive me; I can't off the top of my head remember the name of the primary school I visited, again in north Wales, where the school has proactively used this money, and they actually send teaching assistants out of school in the morning before the start of the school day, and they actually have a walking bus. They call at homes for children, and they walk the children to the breakfast club. So, they're proactively going out into the community and making sure that those children are in the classrooms, because the teacher said,'We recognised we had a problem with attendance. We tried a variety of means of improving that, but in the end we have taken this quite bold step--we actually send the staff out and they create that walking bus, and they walk the children into school'. They say that they know that, for some of those children, because of the difficult circumstances they and their families are living in, they probably wouldn't be in school if it wasn't who has put so much personal investment into the brand of schools challenges, that he would not want anybody to characterise that particular approach to school improvement as a failure. And I want to be absolutely clear that I have never described the programme as a failure, and I want to reassure Mr Ainscow of that. As I've said, gosh, my goodness me, if you saw my e-mail inbox and you saw the letters that come in, people are never shy in coming forward to give me advice on what I need to do, what I need to do next, what I'm doing right, what I'm doing wrong, and, you know, our doors are always open to listen to people who have interesting things to say about how we can deliver our educational mission. So, people aren't slow in coming forward, I can assure you, with advice.Lynne Neagle AM: Julie.Julie Morgan AM: Just very quickly. I'm sure the Minister is aware that Cardiff put extra funds of its own in to continue Schools Challenge Cymru advisers. So, obviously, they appreciated the value of the scheme, but it does query whether it should have gone on longer.Kirsty Williams AM: Julie, I think, to be fair, there are some people who think the scheme was absolutely fantastic. I've had feedback from people who didn't think the scheme was helpful at all--in fact, they felt it was a hindrance. I'm very much of the view that the scheme worked really well for some schools in some areas and had less impact in some areas. There is a mixed picture. What's important to me is that we understand what it was that led those schools to make those big changes, how we can--like Mark talked about, the expertise--how we can keep that expertise in that evolution of use of PDG is being driven by cuts to core funding.Kirsty Williams AM: No, I don't think it's being driven by cuts to core funding. I think there has been--. One of the biggest impacts of PDG has not been--well, I suppose it is the money in itself, because the money has concentrated the minds, hasn't it So, one of the most important things that PDG has done is highlight the importance of this agenda within schools, and really raise this up in the thinking of leadership and senior management teams in our schools, and has driven a focus on scrutiny and accountability in the systems that are working with our schools. I think the changing use of PDG reflects the journeys that schools have been on, some of them from a very low base where this was not a priority for them, to better understanding, and as research and as intelligence grows over time in this area, both in Wales and outside of Wales, schools are increasingly learning to use that evidence to tailor approaches in their schools.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So you wouldn't accept at all that some of this money's being used to paper over some funding cracks from elsewhere. Because the unions and some others have told us that, whether we like it or not, there is some of that going on.Kirsty Williams AM: As I said, Llyr, we're very clear about the usage that this money can be spent on in terms of individuals or universal application within schools, and that forms an important part of the checks and balances that we have in our system. Can we continue to improve, and ensure that more and more of our schools are employing best practice Yes, we can, and as I've said, we've taken we have learnt the lessons, we are taking that work and the good practice forward, and we have done that with conversations with a wide variety of people who had a view on this, from individual schools that were involved in the programme, individual people who were working in those schools, local education authorities, some of which have been very scathing about the programme, I should say, regional consortia--. So, the lessons, I am confident, have been learnt.Mark Reckless AM: I'm glad to hear that, Cabinet Secretary, but I still say that, listening to Professor Ainscow's evidence, there was a perception, at least from him individually, that the programme should not be seen to be a failure, but a desire that the lessons should be learnt and a feeling or exception, at least on his part, that there was more that he still had to contribute to the process. And just to take one particular example, I think he referred to the Schools Challenge Cymru advisers being very successful in bringing in people who might not otherwise have contributed to this, and the regional consortia have had greater challenges in recruiting people, perhaps in some areas, of the same high standard of some particular individuals, but also from a wide range of different areas that the Schools Challenge Cymru do, and that there could be more to learn in that area as to how to support real excellence and a greater diversity of recruitment for those people. Is that something you could perhaps draw on his thoughts further about Because I think he does feel that he has more to say to Welsh Government to help in this area.Kirsty Williams AM: Firstly, can I say that I have never described the programme as a failure I would understand, as someone So, for instance, if I give you an example in your own region, Llyr: at Brynteg County Primary School in Wrexham, if you look at that primary school in Wrexham, their results for free-school-meal children at the end of their primary school period in school are equivalent to their non-free-school-meal counterparts. So, there is no differentiation in those results. One of the things that they've used their PDG for is to really focus on the concept of growth mindset in school. So, that's a universal thing that they've trained all the teachers in, but what we know is that that has a disproportionate effect on those children who are on free school meals. So, if you're familiar with the concept of a growth mindset, it's about really challenging learners to think that,'I can do things. If sometimes I fail, I pick myself up, I'm more resilient.'Now, that has been, as I said, trained to all the teachers in the school--it's an ethos for the whole school--but we have seen that the impact on the free-school-meal children has been even greater, and now they're at the same level. So, that's the important distinction. Individual intervention per child has to be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals, but sometimes a school will employ a whole-school approach to train their staff, for instance, and that, then, has to demonstrate it has a disproportionate effect on free school meals. So, growth mindset; it may be attachment disorder training for staff, for instance, where we know it's of benefit to everybody, but will have particular benefits for that cohort of students. With regard to more able and talented, you know, Llyr, that this is an area of concern for me, generally, within the Welsh education system; that we've not been

What lessons the Government is taking from that three-year investment of Schools Challenge Cymru into the school improvement agenda

They are looking at systems and processes, the placement of comprehensive systems of tracking and processes within the school. They are looking at the teacher quality -- how can they ensure that we have got consistent strategies in place to drive up pedagogy and teacher quality in the classroom. And also, collaborative activity. One of the key themes of the national mission is a self-improving system, so collaborative working is necessary where schools are looking outside of each other, learning from best practice from other schools.

steps to put in place the infrastructure to support that.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Mark's questions are next.Mark Reckless AM: Cabinet Secretary, how would you assess the impact of PDG on attendance and hopefully subsequent engagement with education from children who have free school mealsKirsty Williams AM: I think what's important to note is that, as Estyn have themselves said, over the period of the last inspection report, we have seen improvements in attendance, but I do think we need to, again, look at how PDG can support this particular agenda. And as always in the Welsh education system, there are some excellent examples of how schools use the money to address this. Ysgol y Preseli in Pembrokeshire is a very good example of how they've deployed their money. Forgive me; I can't off the top of my head remember the name of the primary school I visited, again in north Wales, where the school has proactively used this money, and they actually send teaching assistants out of school in the morning before the start of the school day, and they actually have a walking bus. They call at homes for children, and they walk the children to the breakfast club. So, they're proactively going out into the community and making sure that those children are in the classrooms, because the teacher said,'We recognised we had a problem with attendance. We tried a variety of means of improving that, but in the end we have taken this quite bold step--we actually send the staff out and they create that walking bus, and they walk the children into school'. They say that they know that, for some of those children, because of the difficult circumstances they and their families are living in, they probably wouldn't be in school if it wasn't that period, we have seen a narrowing of the gap. I think what's quite stark, if we think about it--. So, if we look at where we started from: in 2009, one in five children on free school meals got level 2 plus--one in five--by 2016, we had got that down to one in three. Obviously, there's still a way to go, but, Sir Alasdair, who knows about these things, says that that is a significant improvement. Last year, we got some challenges. We need to understand why that happened, but I do think it's--Hefin David AM: Why, do you thinkKirsty Williams AM: Why, do I think What I do think is there is no one answer. There is no one answer to this. I think we could look at and we can have discussions around the move from BTEC to science GCSEs. I think we have supplied figures to the committee about the significant change in the number of children on free school meals who weren't doing a single science GCSE and are now doing science GCSEs. We can look at the unintended consequences of literature. Again, we've supplied figures. Where children have done language and literature, whether that be through the medium of English or through the medium of Welsh, there is more resilience. So, it's that exposure to literacy in all its forms that I think could potentially make a difference. So, I think there's no one answer to why free-school-meal children were not so resilient last year. We continue to have discussions with Qualifications Wales to get a better understanding of this. At my next ministerial policy board, in May, we'll be doing a deep dive into this particular subject.Hefin David AM: So, to what extent would exam boards be responsible for lack of grade stabilityKirsty who has put so much personal investment into the brand of schools challenges, that he would not want anybody to characterise that particular approach to school improvement as a failure. And I want to be absolutely clear that I have never described the programme as a failure, and I want to reassure Mr Ainscow of that. As I've said, gosh, my goodness me, if you saw my e-mail inbox and you saw the letters that come in, people are never shy in coming forward to give me advice on what I need to do, what I need to do next, what I'm doing right, what I'm doing wrong, and, you know, our doors are always open to listen to people who have interesting things to say about how we can deliver our educational mission. So, people aren't slow in coming forward, I can assure you, with advice.Lynne Neagle AM: Julie.Julie Morgan AM: Just very quickly. I'm sure the Minister is aware that Cardiff put extra funds of its own in to continue Schools Challenge Cymru advisers. So, obviously, they appreciated the value of the scheme, but it does query whether it should have gone on longer.Kirsty Williams AM: Julie, I think, to be fair, there are some people who think the scheme was absolutely fantastic. I've had feedback from people who didn't think the scheme was helpful at all--in fact, they felt it was a hindrance. I'm very much of the view that the scheme worked really well for some schools in some areas and had less impact in some areas. There is a mixed picture. What's important to me is that we understand what it was that led those schools to make those big changes, how we can--like Mark talked about, the expertise--how we can keep that expertise in that evolution of use of PDG is being driven by cuts to core funding.Kirsty Williams AM: No, I don't think it's being driven by cuts to core funding. I think there has been--. One of the biggest impacts of PDG has not been--well, I suppose it is the money in itself, because the money has concentrated the minds, hasn't it So, one of the most important things that PDG has done is highlight the importance of this agenda within schools, and really raise this up in the thinking of leadership and senior management teams in our schools, and has driven a focus on scrutiny and accountability in the systems that are working with our schools. I think the changing use of PDG reflects the journeys that schools have been on, some of them from a very low base where this was not a priority for them, to better understanding, and as research and as intelligence grows over time in this area, both in Wales and outside of Wales, schools are increasingly learning to use that evidence to tailor approaches in their schools.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So you wouldn't accept at all that some of this money's being used to paper over some funding cracks from elsewhere. Because the unions and some others have told us that, whether we like it or not, there is some of that going on.Kirsty Williams AM: As I said, Llyr, we're very clear about the usage that this money can be spent on in terms of individuals or universal application within schools, and that forms an important part of the checks and balances that we have in our system. Can we continue to improve, and ensure that more and more of our schools are employing best practice Yes, we can, and as I've said, we've taken AM: Okay. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. If we can go on, then, to talk about some of the practical uses of the PDG, you write in your written paper that'the majority of schools are making well thought out and appropriate decisions'on how to use it. But Estyn reported that only two thirds of primary and secondary schools make effective use of the PDG. Given that we've had it now for six years, would you not have expected there to be a higher level of schools actually making good use of that fundingKirsty Williams AM: Well, to flip it on its head, the vast majority of schools, as identified by Estyn, are using this money to good effect. So, that's the way I like to see it--that the vast majority of schools are doing well. What Estyn has also indicated is the intrinsic link here to leadership within individual schools, and as you'll be aware, leadership, improving capacity in leadership and developing leadership talent in the Welsh education system is a key priority for me in our national mission. Of course, that's being developed in a different work stream. I think what's fair to say is that the use of PDG is evolving over time. I think we are seeing, increasingly, more and more schools understanding how best to deploy that money for best effect for students. So, if we're honest, when PDG first started, I think, in some schools it was spent on investing in tracking of children, because they'd never thought about tracking these children, they didn't have systems in place to look at the performance of these children, and to have a system in place. So we've moved now from spending money on the infrastructure around support for FSM children into actual inputs in terms of

What is the progressing condition of the Schools Challenge Cymru

Some of the Schools Challenge Cymru schools are making sustained improvement now that the programme has come to an end. Like the example of Tredegar, where we have seen continual improvement and moving up through the categorisation system. The challenge is for those schools that Schools Challenge Cymru didn't work for, and they haven't seen the progress of how to use the school improvement system now to continue to work with those schools. So now the focus is a whole-system approach, rather than choosing 39 schools to get that level of support. Schools Challenge Cymru would probably need about five years to really have the impact that it was intended to have.

that, actually, the number of free-school-meal pupils is dropping. But there can be changes, you know, regional working in areas of north Wales in tourism, or maybe in other areas at Christmas time, parents are able to get a period of work. So, how can we create a more flexible system We're actively looking at that at the moment. I wouldn't use it as an Ever 6 concept, but as an'Ever 2'concept. We have looked at Ever 6, and I'm going to be absolutely blunt with you: to introduce an Ever 6 concept for Wales would mean in the region of identifying an additional PS40 million. I'm going to be absolutely straight and blunt with you: we're not in a position at the moment to be able to identify an additional PS40 million to introduce an Ever 6. But issues around flexibility, certainly, are actively under consideration. In fact, we'll be having a discussion later on today about decisions, going forward, for the next two years.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Darren on this.Darren Millar AM: It's just a very brief point in response to the PS40 million price ticket that you just put on that. That's, of course, assuming that you maintain the current level of PDG, yes So, if you reduced the level of PDG slightly, but made it available to more individuals, if you like, via allocating it in a different way, then that PS40 million price ticket wouldn't be there, would itKirsty Williams AM: I was asked a question about had I ever considered an Ever 6. We have looked at that, we've priced that up. I have to make decisions in the envelope of resources that are available to me. We could, indeed, change the way in which we allocate PDG money, but we we have learnt the lessons, we are taking that work and the good practice forward, and we have done that with conversations with a wide variety of people who had a view on this, from individual schools that were involved in the programme, individual people who were working in those schools, local education authorities, some of which have been very scathing about the programme, I should say, regional consortia--. So, the lessons, I am confident, have been learnt.Mark Reckless AM: I'm glad to hear that, Cabinet Secretary, but I still say that, listening to Professor Ainscow's evidence, there was a perception, at least from him individually, that the programme should not be seen to be a failure, but a desire that the lessons should be learnt and a feeling or exception, at least on his part, that there was more that he still had to contribute to the process. And just to take one particular example, I think he referred to the Schools Challenge Cymru advisers being very successful in bringing in people who might not otherwise have contributed to this, and the regional consortia have had greater challenges in recruiting people, perhaps in some areas, of the same high standard of some particular individuals, but also from a wide range of different areas that the Schools Challenge Cymru do, and that there could be more to learn in that area as to how to support real excellence and a greater diversity of recruitment for those people. Is that something you could perhaps draw on his thoughts further about Because I think he does feel that he has more to say to Welsh Government to help in this area.Kirsty Williams AM: Firstly, can I say that I have never described the programme as a failure I would understand, as someone the programme had not made an impact, because that wouldn't be good for anybody. There was a formal event to close the programme, which gave everybody an opportunity to get together, to be formally thanked, and for, as I said, congratulations to be given to those people who had really made a difference and, crucially, key staff transferred over into the regional consortia. So, for those individuals, they were able to continue their work, but just be able to apply that work on a regional basis rather than just in an individual school. So, I don't see that there was any fading out, but there was a transition into a new system, and many of those key personnel transitioned into the system with us.Lynne Neagle AM: Have you got any figures for the numbers of staff who went from the programme into the consortiaKirsty Williams AM: Not off the top of my head, but I can let you know.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. I've got Darren first, then Mark.Kirsty Williams AM: And can I just say, I met with some of them I met with a selection of those people who had been involved in the programme to get their feedback on what they felt had gone right, and what they didn't feel had gone right in the programme. So, I took the time not just to meet the figurehead of the programme, but actually to meet the people who were doing the work in the individual schools. Sorry.Darren Millar AM: Yes, I just wanted to ask you, you mentioned the figurehead there, I assume by'the figurehead'you mean Professor Ainscow. And you've mentioned as well that you said you wanted to learn lessons from Schools Challenge Cymru, but he told us that nobody had been in touch with him since March of last year in order to have any sort of follow-up engagement, or to have a dialogue about his perspective on what worked, what didn't work, why there were failures in some areas and why there were successes in others. Why haven't you sought that level of engagement with the person who was responsible for running the programmeKirsty Williams AM: I've had that conversation with Mr Ainscow. We had the evaluation of the programme. We've spoken to the people who were actually involved in running the programme on a daily basis in individual schools. We've spoken to the regional consortia. We've spoken to local education authorities. We've spoken to a wide variety of people to get their insight into the lessons learned, what was valuable and what was not valuable. So, a wide variety of people have been involved in those conversations.Darren Millar AM: But you've hardly engaged with Mr Ainscow--with Professor Ainscow himself.Steve Davies: I would actually say that I have had meetings--Darren Millar AM: Since March of last year.Steve Davies: Yes, since March of last year. I haven't got the exact dates for you. I've had discussions with Mel Ainscow, and my line manager at the time, Owen Evans, also had meetings and discussions.Darren Millar AM: So, when he told us,'Since last March, I literally have had no contact at all with anybody from Welsh Government', he was telling porky pies, was heSteve Davies: That's not my recollection. I'll go back and check for you.Lynne Neagle AM: If you could check and let us know, that would be good. Mark.Kirsty Williams AM: Yes, well, I just talked about the celebration event to formally mark the end of the programme. My understanding was that it was July of last year, so people were engaged in that. And this idea credit, for instance, we've got officials working very hard at the moment to try and understand what universal credit is going to mean and where we are going to be able to identify relative need, going forward. We haven't had any additional resource as a result of this, but we're very mindful that, potentially, this has an impact, going forward. And, officials are working all of the time, I must say, in conjunction with the department in England, to understand their thinking in this area so that we are in a position to make some decisions about what a notional eligibility for free school meals will look like going forward, but before I make any decisions, I want to assure everybody that there will be a full public consultation on that.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Okay. Finally for now, on this issue of once a year, in January, if you're eligible for free school meals, then you're in that group for that year. We've had some quite strong evidence about how difficult that makes longer term planning for a number of schools and we've also been pointed in the direction of what's happened in England with the Ever 6, and I'm just wondering whether you're giving any thought to maybe changing that a little bit.Kirsty Williams AM: Well, we're certainly giving thought to flexibility. In conversations with Alasdair, who is our independent adviser on this agenda, and individual schools, we're actively giving thought to greater flexibility and maybe longer term projections, so that schools know, for a number of years ahead, what their allocation will be. There are advantages to that system, because you could give that flexibility, you could give that long-term approach, but then, how do you make that responsive if a school suddenly has more children We do know

Summarize the discussion on the roles regional consortia and Cabinet Secretary should play.

According to Kirsty Williams, she expects their challenge and support advisers to be having conversations that they need to have when they are with that school, to know about how they are using their PDG, and how they're demonstrating an impact for those resources. It's a fundamental role for the challenge and support advisers in the regional consortia in their school improvement work.

steps to put in place the infrastructure to support that.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Mark's questions are next.Mark Reckless AM: Cabinet Secretary, how would you assess the impact of PDG on attendance and hopefully subsequent engagement with education from children who have free school mealsKirsty Williams AM: I think what's important to note is that, as Estyn have themselves said, over the period of the last inspection report, we have seen improvements in attendance, but I do think we need to, again, look at how PDG can support this particular agenda. And as always in the Welsh education system, there are some excellent examples of how schools use the money to address this. Ysgol y Preseli in Pembrokeshire is a very good example of how they've deployed their money. Forgive me; I can't off the top of my head remember the name of the primary school I visited, again in north Wales, where the school has proactively used this money, and they actually send teaching assistants out of school in the morning before the start of the school day, and they actually have a walking bus. They call at homes for children, and they walk the children to the breakfast club. So, they're proactively going out into the community and making sure that those children are in the classrooms, because the teacher said,'We recognised we had a problem with attendance. We tried a variety of means of improving that, but in the end we have taken this quite bold step--we actually send the staff out and they create that walking bus, and they walk the children into school'. They say that they know that, for some of those children, because of the difficult circumstances they and their families are living in, they probably wouldn't be in school if it wasn't for that proactive approach. So, we're looking again at what more we can do to support this particular agenda in terms of improving attendance, because although, again, there are examples of good practice, there is still a gap between the attendance of free-school-meal pupils and non-free-school-meal pupils. And, of course, we can have the best curriculum in the world with really high-quality teaching, but unless the children are in the classes then we're not going to make the difference for them. Whilst that differential exists, then it's going to be hard to close the attainment gap for those children.Mark Reckless AM: I was actually quite shocked just reading in advance of this meeting that the proportion attending 95 per cent or more, who have pretty full attendance, was only 35 per cent for free-school-meal children at level 4, compared to 60 per cent for non-free-school-meal pupils. It still is an extraordinary difference. My colleague here showed me, I think, last week, a graph showing the link between attendance and attainment, in particular. When people were absent, a lot of the--. As I'm sure you're aware, there's a huge connection. What more can PDG do to deal with it In the example you give I can see how a school with an awful lot of free-school-meal children could do that, but a lot of the free-school-meal children are actually in schools that don't have that high a proportion of free school meals, where it would be much more challenging to bring in that type of initiative.Kirsty Williams AM: Yes, indeed, and I think it gets more challenging the older the children get. I think it's more difficult to find interventions that are successful higher up, so key stage 4. So, you can do a walking bus with little ones, can't you, that evolution of use of PDG is being driven by cuts to core funding.Kirsty Williams AM: No, I don't think it's being driven by cuts to core funding. I think there has been--. One of the biggest impacts of PDG has not been--well, I suppose it is the money in itself, because the money has concentrated the minds, hasn't it So, one of the most important things that PDG has done is highlight the importance of this agenda within schools, and really raise this up in the thinking of leadership and senior management teams in our schools, and has driven a focus on scrutiny and accountability in the systems that are working with our schools. I think the changing use of PDG reflects the journeys that schools have been on, some of them from a very low base where this was not a priority for them, to better understanding, and as research and as intelligence grows over time in this area, both in Wales and outside of Wales, schools are increasingly learning to use that evidence to tailor approaches in their schools.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So you wouldn't accept at all that some of this money's being used to paper over some funding cracks from elsewhere. Because the unions and some others have told us that, whether we like it or not, there is some of that going on.Kirsty Williams AM: As I said, Llyr, we're very clear about the usage that this money can be spent on in terms of individuals or universal application within schools, and that forms an important part of the checks and balances that we have in our system. Can we continue to improve, and ensure that more and more of our schools are employing best practice Yes, we can, and as I've said, we've taken teaching and learning. We're also seeing from Estyn that, actually, in terms of money following the evidence of what we know works, Estyn says that PDG is probably the best example of schools following tried and tested and evidence-based interventions to deploy the money. But clearly we want all of this money to be deployed as well as it can be, and again we come back to the decision I've made to appoint regional PDG advisers so that we can get that better consistency of approach. We are, in the discussions that I have with the regional consortia about how they challenge individual schools on usage, looking for very clear evidence of schools using the Sutton Trust toolkit, and we could have a discussion about whether that's the right thing, because that's on my mind too. But we want to see schools demonstrating their evidence base, and if they're not, if a school isn't doing that, okay, so demonstrate to us why you've made those decisions and, crucially, what are you doing as the school to judge whether that decision is actually making a difference for your individual pupils. So, if you're moving away from tried and tested interventions, what we know works, if you're doing something different with your money, okay, you need to justify that and you need to explain how you're going to demonstrate impact. But I think what we're seeing is increasing good practice in this area as the PDG develops and as our understanding of our school-to-school working in our self-improving school system also develops. I think we're seeing better usage of the money year on year.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Llyr on this.Llyr Gruffydd AM: You mentioned some schools will be moving from the tried-and-tested interventions, really, and I'm just wondering to what extent So, for instance, if I give you an example in your own region, Llyr: at Brynteg County Primary School in Wrexham, if you look at that primary school in Wrexham, their results for free-school-meal children at the end of their primary school period in school are equivalent to their non-free-school-meal counterparts. So, there is no differentiation in those results. One of the things that they've used their PDG for is to really focus on the concept of growth mindset in school. So, that's a universal thing that they've trained all the teachers in, but what we know is that that has a disproportionate effect on those children who are on free school meals. So, if you're familiar with the concept of a growth mindset, it's about really challenging learners to think that,'I can do things. If sometimes I fail, I pick myself up, I'm more resilient.'Now, that has been, as I said, trained to all the teachers in the school--it's an ethos for the whole school--but we have seen that the impact on the free-school-meal children has been even greater, and now they're at the same level. So, that's the important distinction. Individual intervention per child has to be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals, but sometimes a school will employ a whole-school approach to train their staff, for instance, and that, then, has to demonstrate it has a disproportionate effect on free school meals. So, growth mindset; it may be attachment disorder training for staff, for instance, where we know it's of benefit to everybody, but will have particular benefits for that cohort of students. With regard to more able and talented, you know, Llyr, that this is an area of concern for me, generally, within the Welsh education system; that we've not been

What does the group think of the extent they'd like to see the PDG used to track the progress of eligible pupils

Kirsty Williams thinks that it's absolutely crucial that we track performance. Where they weren't tracking pupils at all, initial investment in PDG was used to establish these systems within schools. One of the outcomes from the schools challenge review, and one of the lessons learnt was the importance of individual tracking of pupils throughout their school career. But they can't dictate a single system.

who has put so much personal investment into the brand of schools challenges, that he would not want anybody to characterise that particular approach to school improvement as a failure. And I want to be absolutely clear that I have never described the programme as a failure, and I want to reassure Mr Ainscow of that. As I've said, gosh, my goodness me, if you saw my e-mail inbox and you saw the letters that come in, people are never shy in coming forward to give me advice on what I need to do, what I need to do next, what I'm doing right, what I'm doing wrong, and, you know, our doors are always open to listen to people who have interesting things to say about how we can deliver our educational mission. So, people aren't slow in coming forward, I can assure you, with advice.Lynne Neagle AM: Julie.Julie Morgan AM: Just very quickly. I'm sure the Minister is aware that Cardiff put extra funds of its own in to continue Schools Challenge Cymru advisers. So, obviously, they appreciated the value of the scheme, but it does query whether it should have gone on longer.Kirsty Williams AM: Julie, I think, to be fair, there are some people who think the scheme was absolutely fantastic. I've had feedback from people who didn't think the scheme was helpful at all--in fact, they felt it was a hindrance. I'm very much of the view that the scheme worked really well for some schools in some areas and had less impact in some areas. There is a mixed picture. What's important to me is that we understand what it was that led those schools to make those big changes, how we can--like Mark talked about, the expertise--how we can keep that expertise in Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this morning's Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members who are present if they wish to declare any interests Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is our final evidence session for our inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Cabinet Secretary for Education; Steve Davies, director of the education directorate; and Ruth Conway, deputy director, support for learners division. Welcome to all of you, and thank you for your attendance and also for the paper that you've provided in advance. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions, and the first questions are from Llyr Gruffydd.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Bore da. I just want to start by asking some questions around the targeting of the pupil development grant because, clearly, we've had a lot of evidence around this apparent blurring of eligibility to an extent. I'm just wondering how comfortable you are that the money is being targeted appropriately because, clearly, it's being targeted more widely than just those eligible for free school meals, from some of the evidence we've had, but also that it seems to be predominantly focused on low-attaining frees--pupils who are eligible for free school meals.Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you, Llyr. I think it's important to be absolutely clear that when it comes to individual interventions, those individual interventions should only be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals. But in some cases, schools may use their PDG funding to provide a universal intervention, but we would want to--in challenge advisers'discussions in schools--we'd want to have evidence that that universal intervention would have a disproportionate effect on the outcomes for children on free school meals. we have learnt the lessons, we are taking that work and the good practice forward, and we have done that with conversations with a wide variety of people who had a view on this, from individual schools that were involved in the programme, individual people who were working in those schools, local education authorities, some of which have been very scathing about the programme, I should say, regional consortia--. So, the lessons, I am confident, have been learnt.Mark Reckless AM: I'm glad to hear that, Cabinet Secretary, but I still say that, listening to Professor Ainscow's evidence, there was a perception, at least from him individually, that the programme should not be seen to be a failure, but a desire that the lessons should be learnt and a feeling or exception, at least on his part, that there was more that he still had to contribute to the process. And just to take one particular example, I think he referred to the Schools Challenge Cymru advisers being very successful in bringing in people who might not otherwise have contributed to this, and the regional consortia have had greater challenges in recruiting people, perhaps in some areas, of the same high standard of some particular individuals, but also from a wide range of different areas that the Schools Challenge Cymru do, and that there could be more to learn in that area as to how to support real excellence and a greater diversity of recruitment for those people. Is that something you could perhaps draw on his thoughts further about Because I think he does feel that he has more to say to Welsh Government to help in this area.Kirsty Williams AM: Firstly, can I say that I have never described the programme as a failure I would understand, as someone that are subject to those exclusions. Again, I think what schools employing best practice understand is that you need a multi-agency approach to supporting that particular child. Some of those exclusions can be as a result of the need to address other issues going on in a child's life. So, this is where we come back to the committee's work, for instance, on mental health and support for children, support for behaviour in school. So, again, it's a multi-agency approach that I think we need, and, in our good schools, our really, really good schools, there's a recognition of that need to have a whole team around a child to support that child in education. With EOTAS, we made some changes last year regarding PDG for EOTAS. So, for those children who do find themselves in education other than at school, we are providing additional support that previously was not available.Mark Reckless AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. We're going to move on now to talk about the impact of PDG on attainment. Hefin David has got some questions.Hefin David AM: It appears that the attainment gap at 2017 has actually widened, in spite of PDG levels. Is that correctKirsty Williams AM: Yes. So, if you look at it--with the usual caveats about whether you can make direct comparisons on level 2 plus between the exams the year before and the exams that we had last summer--on the face of it, the gap has increased. I think what's important to recognise, Hefin, is a direction of travel. I'm sure we all want to, because I want to, have a discussion about why children on free school meals were less resilient in the exam system last year. But, if we look at the period that we have been employing PDG, over the programme had not made an impact, because that wouldn't be good for anybody. There was a formal event to close the programme, which gave everybody an opportunity to get together, to be formally thanked, and for, as I said, congratulations to be given to those people who had really made a difference and, crucially, key staff transferred over into the regional consortia. So, for those individuals, they were able to continue their work, but just be able to apply that work on a regional basis rather than just in an individual school. So, I don't see that there was any fading out, but there was a transition into a new system, and many of those key personnel transitioned into the system with us.Lynne Neagle AM: Have you got any figures for the numbers of staff who went from the programme into the consortiaKirsty Williams AM: Not off the top of my head, but I can let you know.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. I've got Darren first, then Mark.Kirsty Williams AM: And can I just say, I met with some of them I met with a selection of those people who had been involved in the programme to get their feedback on what they felt had gone right, and what they didn't feel had gone right in the programme. So, I took the time not just to meet the figurehead of the programme, but actually to meet the people who were doing the work in the individual schools. Sorry.Darren Millar AM: Yes, I just wanted to ask you, you mentioned the figurehead there, I assume by'the figurehead'you mean Professor Ainscow. And you've mentioned as well that you said you wanted to learn lessons from Schools Challenge Cymru, but he told us that nobody had been in touch with him since March

Summarize the whole meeting.

The conference is about an inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes in the Wales education system. First, they primarily discussed the Pupil Development Grant, its targeting, eligibility, use and impact. Then, the group discussed care of looked-after children and adopted children. They discussed the condition and impact of another student support program the Schools Challenge Cymru program and the advisory role of regional consortia, Cabinet Secretary.

collection. So Fey's time with us is almost officially over, and she brought us some thirty subjects and, t collected the data, and ten dialogues have been transcribed and can be looked at. If you're interested in that, talk to me. Um, and we found another uh, cogsci student who's interested in playing wizard for us. Here we're gonna make it a little bit more complicated for the subjects, uh this round. She's actually suggested to look um, at the psychology department students, because they have to partake in two experiments in order to fulfill some requirements. So they have to be subjected, {vocalsound} {comment} before they can actually graduate. And um, we want to design it so that they really have to think about having some time, two days, for example, to plan certain things and figure out which can be done at what time, and, um, sort of package the whole thing in a {disfmarker} in a re in a few more complicated um, structure. That's for the data collection. As for SmartKom, I'm {disfmarker} the last SmartKom meeting I mentioned that we have some problems with the synthesis, which as of this morning should be resolved. And, so,Professor F: Good.Grad B:" should be" means they aren't yet, but {disfmarker} but I think I have the info now that I need. Plus, Johno and I are meeting tomorrow, so maybe uh uh, when tomorrow is over, we're done. And ha n hav we'll never have to look at it again Maybe it'll take some more time, to be realistic, but at least we're {disfmarker} we're seeing the end of the tunnel there. That was that. Um, the uh, uh I don't think we need to discuss the formalism that'll be done officially s once we're done. Um, something do over the next few weeks is see if we can track that down. Uh, the people at Stanford write papers as if they had one, but, um, we'll see. So w Anyway. So that's a {disfmarker} a major open issue. If there is an interpreter, it looks like you know, what Eva's got should run and we should be able to actually um, try to solve, you know, the problems, to actually take the data, and do it. Uh, and we'll see. Uh, I actually think it is cleaner, and the ability to instantiate, you know, instance of people and sites and stuff, um, will help in the expression. Whether the inference gets any faster or not I don't know. Uh, it wouldn't surprise me if it {disfmarker} if it doesn't.Grad D: Mm - hmm.Professor F: You know, it's the same kind of information. I think there are things that you can express this way which you can't express in a normal belief - net, uh, without going to some incredible hacking of {disfmarker} sort of rebuilding it on the fly. I mean, the notion of instantiating your el elements from the ontology and stuff fits this very nicely and doesn't fit very well into the extended belief - net. So that was one of the main reasons for doing it. Um. I don't know. So, uh, people who have thought about the problem, like Robert i it looked to me like if {comment} Eva were able to come up with a {vocalsound} you know, value for each of a number of uh, sites plus its EVA thing, that a travel planner should be able to take it from there. And {disfmarker} you know, with some other information about how much time the person has and whatever, and then And so, you know, it's easier to specify the CPT and all. Um, so I think that's about as far as I've gone on the PRM stuff.Professor F: WellGrad D: Right.Professor F: No. So y you didn't yet tell us what the output is.Grad D: The output.Professor F: So what decisions does this makeGrad D: OK. So it only makes two decisions, in this model. And one is basically how desirable a site is meaning, um, how good it matches the needs of a user. And the other is the mode of the visit, whether th It's the EVA decision. Um, so, instead of um, {vocalsound} doing a lot of, you know, computation about, you know, which one site it wants of {disfmarker} the user wants to visit, I'll come {disfmarker} well, try to come up with like, sort of a list of sites. And for each site, you know, where {disfmarker} h how {disfmarker} how well it fits, and basically a rating of how well it fits and what to do with it. So. Anything else I missedProfessor F: So that was pretty quick. She's ac uh uh Eva's got a little write - up on it that uh, probably gives the {disfmarker} the details to anybody who needs them. Um, so the {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you didn't look at all yet to see if there's anybody has a implementation.Grad D: No, not yet, um {disfmarker}Professor F: OK. So one {disfmarker} so one of the questions, you know, about these P R Ms isGrad D: Mm - hmm.Professor F: uh, we aren't gonna build our own interpreter, so if {disfmarker} if we can't find one, then we uh, go off and do something else and wait until s one appears. Uh, so one of the things that Eva's gonna some work on topic spottingProfessor F: Yeah. St - statistical stuff. That would be a very good idea.Grad A: w um, which is, I mean, you {disfmarker} I mean. I don't {disfmarker} Depending on how well you wanna integrate with that end,Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad A: you know, like, taking the data and fig you said the learning systems that figure out {disfmarker} We {disfmarker} There's someone in ICSI who actually has been working on {disfmarker} has worked on that kinda stuff, and he's worked with frame net, so you could talk to him about, you know, both of those things at once.Grad C: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.Grad A: So. And he just finished writing a draft of his thesis. So. I u {vocalsound} Dan Gildea, GILDEA.Grad C: So, uh, who is that againGrad A: And, he's in one of the rooms on the fifth floor and stuff,Grad B: Who I can take you to his office.Grad A: and {disfmarker}Grad B: It's just around the corner.Grad C: OK, great.Grad A: Hmm. Well, if you fal solve the problem, {vocalsound} hope you can do one for us too.Professor F: Alright, was there anything else for this One of these times soon we're gonna hear about construal.Grad B: Yeah. I'm sure. I have um {disfmarker} I think it was November two thousand three or some {disfmarker} No. Wh - I had something in my calendar.Professor F: Oh, OK. Right.Grad B: Um,Grad E: Wait a second. That's a long way away.Professor F: Good thinking!Grad B: Uh well, maybe I can {disfmarker} I can bribe my way out of this. So. So I did some double checking and it seems like spring break in two thousand {vocalsound} one.Grad A: Talk about changing the topic.Grad B: No.Professor F: Well, no, but he's idea was if we're so smart about language understanding and speech understanding, couldn't we build {vocalsound} uh, programs that would be tutors for the kids. We think we could. Anyway. So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} But this is a slightly different problem,Grad A: Mm - hmm.Professor F: and um, I know none of us have the spare time to look at it right now, but it i it's {disfmarker} it's interesting and I may um, talk to him some more about is em somebody already doing this, and stuff like that. So anyway, that was {disfmarker} that was today's little story.Grad E: Hmm.Grad B: OK. So I {disfmarker} I did manage to get {disfmarker} pull my head out of the sling by sidetracking into CITRIS,Professor F: No, no.Grad B: but uh or {disfmarker} a temporarily putting it out of the slingProfessor F: Right.Grad B: but, I {disfmarker} I'll volunteer to put it right back in by stating that I am n uh among some other things in the process of writing up stuff that we have been discussing at our daily meetings,Professor F: Yeah.Grad B: and also revising, thanks for all the comments, the c the original construal proposal. And, if I put one and one together, I may end up with a number that's greater than one and that I {disfmarker} I can potentially present once you get back.Grad A: Greater than twoProfessor F: You're good.Grad B: Nnn. {comment} s sometimes, you know the sum is not uh less than the {disfmarker}Grad A: Uh, right, right.Professor F: Right. Right. Anyway. Yeah, so {disfmarker} OK, so that'd be great, but I'd {disfmarker} I think it's {disfmarker} it's time again, rightGrad B: Absolutely. Yeah.Professor F: Yeah. OK.Grad B: But um, and hopefully all sidetracking um, other things will have disappeared, soon.Professor F: Good. Yep. Done

What are progress updates

The first phase of the data collection has finished. There is a new wizard for phase two, during which subjects will be given more complex scenarios. Also finished are the modifications on SmartKom: the remaining glitches will take no more than a day to iron out. A big part of the meeting was covered by the presentation of the PRM of the proposed system.

collection. So Fey's time with us is almost officially over, and she brought us some thirty subjects and, t collected the data, and ten dialogues have been transcribed and can be looked at. If you're interested in that, talk to me. Um, and we found another uh, cogsci student who's interested in playing wizard for us. Here we're gonna make it a little bit more complicated for the subjects, uh this round. She's actually suggested to look um, at the psychology department students, because they have to partake in two experiments in order to fulfill some requirements. So they have to be subjected, {vocalsound} {comment} before they can actually graduate. And um, we want to design it so that they really have to think about having some time, two days, for example, to plan certain things and figure out which can be done at what time, and, um, sort of package the whole thing in a {disfmarker} in a re in a few more complicated um, structure. That's for the data collection. As for SmartKom, I'm {disfmarker} the last SmartKom meeting I mentioned that we have some problems with the synthesis, which as of this morning should be resolved. And, so,Professor F: Good.Grad B:" should be" means they aren't yet, but {disfmarker} but I think I have the info now that I need. Plus, Johno and I are meeting tomorrow, so maybe uh uh, when tomorrow is over, we're done. And ha n hav we'll never have to look at it again Maybe it'll take some more time, to be realistic, but at least we're {disfmarker} we're seeing the end of the tunnel there. That was that. Um, the uh, uh I don't think we need to discuss the formalism that'll be done officially s once we're done. Um, something {disfmarker} he's {disfmarker} he's {disfmarker} he's {disfmarker} as you said, he's, like the state legislature, he's trying to offer us bribes.Grad A: At least this is a private meeting. Right, exactly, OK, that's the link.Grad B: This uh {disfmarker} Oh, they refused the budget again Is it {disfmarker} so about CITRIS Yeah, still nothing.Professor F: Uh, this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} t the s we're, uh, involved in a literally three hundred million dollar uh, program. Uh, with the State of California. And, the State of California is now a month and a half behind its legis its legally required date to approve a budget. So the budget has not been approved. And two days ago {disfmarker} There's two l you know, so, two branches of legislature. One branch approved it,Grad C: Mm - hmm.Professor F: and, um, yesterdayday {comment} there was this uh {disfmarker} uh I thought that the other branch would just approve it, but now there's actually a little back sliding to people who {disfmarker} who approved it got flak from there, eh anyway. So, um {disfmarker} Oh! I have to tell you a wonderful story about this, OK And then we'll go. So, I {disfmarker} it turns out I wound up having lunch today with a guy named Tom Kalil. KILL {disfmarker} KALIL. And, uh, he now works at Berkeley. In fact he's hired to run a lot of CITRIS, even though we don't have the money they {disfmarker} So they've been hiring people right and left, so, uh, they think the money's coming. So {disfmarker} and he was, I think, the chief staffer to Clinton on technology matters. He was in the White House, I don't remember what he was saying. A anyway, like that. And, is now doing all the politics for CITRIS, And so, you know, it's easier to specify the CPT and all. Um, so I think that's about as far as I've gone on the PRM stuff.Professor F: WellGrad D: Right.Professor F: No. So y you didn't yet tell us what the output is.Grad D: The output.Professor F: So what decisions does this makeGrad D: OK. So it only makes two decisions, in this model. And one is basically how desirable a site is meaning, um, how good it matches the needs of a user. And the other is the mode of the visit, whether th It's the EVA decision. Um, so, instead of um, {vocalsound} doing a lot of, you know, computation about, you know, which one site it wants of {disfmarker} the user wants to visit, I'll come {disfmarker} well, try to come up with like, sort of a list of sites. And for each site, you know, where {disfmarker} h how {disfmarker} how well it fits, and basically a rating of how well it fits and what to do with it. So. Anything else I missedProfessor F: So that was pretty quick. She's ac uh uh Eva's got a little write - up on it that uh, probably gives the {disfmarker} the details to anybody who needs them. Um, so the {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you didn't look at all yet to see if there's anybody has a implementation.Grad D: No, not yet, um {disfmarker}Professor F: OK. So one {disfmarker} so one of the questions, you know, about these P R Ms isGrad D: Mm - hmm.Professor F: uh, we aren't gonna build our own interpreter, so if {disfmarker} if we can't find one, then we uh, go off and do something else and wait until s one appears. Uh, so one of the things that Eva's gonna do over the next few weeks is see if we can track that down. Uh, the people at Stanford write papers as if they had one, but, um, we'll see. So w Anyway. So that's a {disfmarker} a major open issue. If there is an interpreter, it looks like you know, what Eva's got should run and we should be able to actually um, try to solve, you know, the problems, to actually take the data, and do it. Uh, and we'll see. Uh, I actually think it is cleaner, and the ability to instantiate, you know, instance of people and sites and stuff, um, will help in the expression. Whether the inference gets any faster or not I don't know. Uh, it wouldn't surprise me if it {disfmarker} if it doesn't.Grad D: Mm - hmm.Professor F: You know, it's the same kind of information. I think there are things that you can express this way which you can't express in a normal belief - net, uh, without going to some incredible hacking of {disfmarker} sort of rebuilding it on the fly. I mean, the notion of instantiating your el elements from the ontology and stuff fits this very nicely and doesn't fit very well into the extended belief - net. So that was one of the main reasons for doing it. Um. I don't know. So, uh, people who have thought about the problem, like Robert i it looked to me like if {comment} Eva were able to come up with a {vocalsound} you know, value for each of a number of uh, sites plus its EVA thing, that a travel planner should be able to take it from there. And {disfmarker} you know, with some other information about how much time the person has and whatever, and then some work on topic spottingProfessor F: Yeah. St - statistical stuff. That would be a very good idea.Grad A: w um, which is, I mean, you {disfmarker} I mean. I don't {disfmarker} Depending on how well you wanna integrate with that end,Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad A: you know, like, taking the data and fig you said the learning systems that figure out {disfmarker} We {disfmarker} There's someone in ICSI who actually has been working on {disfmarker} has worked on that kinda stuff, and he's worked with frame net, so you could talk to him about, you know, both of those things at once.Grad C: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.Grad A: So. And he just finished writing a draft of his thesis. So. I u {vocalsound} Dan Gildea, GILDEA.Grad C: So, uh, who is that againGrad A: And, he's in one of the rooms on the fifth floor and stuff,Grad B: Who I can take you to his office.Grad A: and {disfmarker}Grad B: It's just around the corner.Grad C: OK, great.Grad A: Hmm. Well, if you fal solve the problem, {vocalsound} hope you can do one for us too.Professor F: Alright, was there anything else for this One of these times soon we're gonna hear about construal.Grad B: Yeah. I'm sure. I have um {disfmarker} I think it was November two thousand three or some {disfmarker} No. Wh - I had something in my calendar.Professor F: Oh, OK. Right.Grad B: Um,Grad E: Wait a second. That's a long way away.Professor F: Good thinking!Grad B: Uh well, maybe I can {disfmarker} I can bribe my way out of this. So. So I did some double checking and it seems like spring break in two thousand {vocalsound} one.Grad A: Talk about changing the topic.Grad B: No.Professor F: Well, no, but he's

What is the future for data collection

As the data collection is going into its second phase, more complex scenarios will be used to generate more intricate dialogues. Subjects can be recruited from within the Psychology department students, since such participation in experiments is compulsory in their syllabus.

{disfmarker} he's {disfmarker} he's {disfmarker} he's {disfmarker} as you said, he's, like the state legislature, he's trying to offer us bribes.Grad A: At least this is a private meeting. Right, exactly, OK, that's the link.Grad B: This uh {disfmarker} Oh, they refused the budget again Is it {disfmarker} so about CITRIS Yeah, still nothing.Professor F: Uh, this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} t the s we're, uh, involved in a literally three hundred million dollar uh, program. Uh, with the State of California. And, the State of California is now a month and a half behind its legis its legally required date to approve a budget. So the budget has not been approved. And two days ago {disfmarker} There's two l you know, so, two branches of legislature. One branch approved it,Grad C: Mm - hmm.Professor F: and, um, yesterdayday {comment} there was this uh {disfmarker} uh I thought that the other branch would just approve it, but now there's actually a little back sliding to people who {disfmarker} who approved it got flak from there, eh anyway. So, um {disfmarker} Oh! I have to tell you a wonderful story about this, OK And then we'll go. So, I {disfmarker} it turns out I wound up having lunch today with a guy named Tom Kalil. KILL {disfmarker} KALIL. And, uh, he now works at Berkeley. In fact he's hired to run a lot of CITRIS, even though we don't have the money they {disfmarker} So they've been hiring people right and left, so, uh, they think the money's coming. So {disfmarker} and he was, I think, the chief staffer to Clinton on technology matters. He was in the White House, I don't remember what he was saying. A anyway, like that. And, is now doing all the politics for CITRIS, And so, you know, it's easier to specify the CPT and all. Um, so I think that's about as far as I've gone on the PRM stuff.Professor F: WellGrad D: Right.Professor F: No. So y you didn't yet tell us what the output is.Grad D: The output.Professor F: So what decisions does this makeGrad D: OK. So it only makes two decisions, in this model. And one is basically how desirable a site is meaning, um, how good it matches the needs of a user. And the other is the mode of the visit, whether th It's the EVA decision. Um, so, instead of um, {vocalsound} doing a lot of, you know, computation about, you know, which one site it wants of {disfmarker} the user wants to visit, I'll come {disfmarker} well, try to come up with like, sort of a list of sites. And for each site, you know, where {disfmarker} h how {disfmarker} how well it fits, and basically a rating of how well it fits and what to do with it. So. Anything else I missedProfessor F: So that was pretty quick. She's ac uh uh Eva's got a little write - up on it that uh, probably gives the {disfmarker} the details to anybody who needs them. Um, so the {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you didn't look at all yet to see if there's anybody has a implementation.Grad D: No, not yet, um {disfmarker}Professor F: OK. So one {disfmarker} so one of the questions, you know, about these P R Ms isGrad D: Mm - hmm.Professor F: uh, we aren't gonna build our own interpreter, so if {disfmarker} if we can't find one, then we uh, go off and do something else and wait until s one appears. Uh, so one of the things that Eva's gonna do over the next few weeks is see if we can track that down. Uh, the people at Stanford write papers as if they had one, but, um, we'll see. So w Anyway. So that's a {disfmarker} a major open issue. If there is an interpreter, it looks like you know, what Eva's got should run and we should be able to actually um, try to solve, you know, the problems, to actually take the data, and do it. Uh, and we'll see. Uh, I actually think it is cleaner, and the ability to instantiate, you know, instance of people and sites and stuff, um, will help in the expression. Whether the inference gets any faster or not I don't know. Uh, it wouldn't surprise me if it {disfmarker} if it doesn't.Grad D: Mm - hmm.Professor F: You know, it's the same kind of information. I think there are things that you can express this way which you can't express in a normal belief - net, uh, without going to some incredible hacking of {disfmarker} sort of rebuilding it on the fly. I mean, the notion of instantiating your el elements from the ontology and stuff fits this very nicely and doesn't fit very well into the extended belief - net. So that was one of the main reasons for doing it. Um. I don't know. So, uh, people who have thought about the problem, like Robert i it looked to me like if {comment} Eva were able to come up with a {vocalsound} you know, value for each of a number of uh, sites plus its EVA thing, that a travel planner should be able to take it from there. And {disfmarker} you know, with some other information about how much time the person has and whatever, and then together and you wanted to plan something that somehow, with some Pareto optimal uh, {vocalsound} uh, thing for {disfmarker}Grad A: That's good. That's definitely a job for artificial intelligence.Professor F: uh, or {disfmarker}Grad A: Except for humans can't really solve it either, so.Grad B: Well that's not {disfmarker} not even something humans {disfmarker} yeah.Professor F: Right. Right. Well that's the {disfmarker} that would {disfmarker} that would be a {disfmarker} uh, you could sell it, as a {disfmarker}Grad A: Yeah.Professor F: OK, eh you don't have to fight about this, just give your preferences to the {disfmarker}Grad A: And then you can blame the computer.Professor F: w Exactly.Grad A: So.Grad B: Hmm. But what does it {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} Would a pote potential result be to {disfmarker} to split up and never talk to each other again You know.Grad A: That should be one of them.Grad B: Yeah.Professor F: Yeah. Right.Grad E: That'd be nice.Grad A: Mmm.Professor F: Anyway. So. So there i there are some {disfmarker} some u uh, you know, uh, elaborations of this that you could try to put in to this structure, but I don't think it's worth it now. Because we're gonna see what {disfmarker} what else uh {disfmarker} what else we're gonna do. Anyway. But uh, it's good, yeah and {disfmarker} and there were a couple other ideas of {disfmarker} of uh, things for Eva to look at in {disfmarker} in the interim.Grad B: Good. Then, we can move on and see what Andreas has got out his sleeve. Or Andy, for that matterGrad C: OK. So uh, uh, well, thanks for having me here, first of all. Um, so maybe just a {disfmarker} a little background on {disfmarker} on my visit. So, uh, I'm not really involved in any project, that's uh {disfmarker} that's some work on topic spottingProfessor F: Yeah. St - statistical stuff. That would be a very good idea.Grad A: w um, which is, I mean, you {disfmarker} I mean. I don't {disfmarker} Depending on how well you wanna integrate with that end,Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad A: you know, like, taking the data and fig you said the learning systems that figure out {disfmarker} We {disfmarker} There's someone in ICSI who actually has been working on {disfmarker} has worked on that kinda stuff, and he's worked with frame net, so you could talk to him about, you know, both of those things at once.Grad C: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.Grad A: So. And he just finished writing a draft of his thesis. So. I u {vocalsound} Dan Gildea, GILDEA.Grad C: So, uh, who is that againGrad A: And, he's in one of the rooms on the fifth floor and stuff,Grad B: Who I can take you to his office.Grad A: and {disfmarker}Grad B: It's just around the corner.Grad C: OK, great.Grad A: Hmm. Well, if you fal solve the problem, {vocalsound} hope you can do one for us too.Professor F: Alright, was there anything else for this One of these times soon we're gonna hear about construal.Grad B: Yeah. I'm sure. I have um {disfmarker} I think it was November two thousand three or some {disfmarker} No. Wh - I had something in my calendar.Professor F: Oh, OK. Right.Grad B: Um,Grad E: Wait a second. That's a long way away.Professor F: Good thinking!Grad B: Uh well, maybe I can {disfmarker} I can bribe my way out of this. So. So I did some double checking and it seems like spring break in two thousand {vocalsound} one.Grad A: Talk about changing the topic.Grad B: No.Professor F: Well, no, but he's

Summarize this segmen

An alternative representation of the Bayes-net, it depicts context features as classes, and dependencies as relations between them. The current outputs show the desirability of a site, as well as its EVA mode. The fact that this model allows for instantiations of classes fits the research purposes much better than the extended belief-net.

collection. So Fey's time with us is almost officially over, and she brought us some thirty subjects and, t collected the data, and ten dialogues have been transcribed and can be looked at. If you're interested in that, talk to me. Um, and we found another uh, cogsci student who's interested in playing wizard for us. Here we're gonna make it a little bit more complicated for the subjects, uh this round. She's actually suggested to look um, at the psychology department students, because they have to partake in two experiments in order to fulfill some requirements. So they have to be subjected, {vocalsound} {comment} before they can actually graduate. And um, we want to design it so that they really have to think about having some time, two days, for example, to plan certain things and figure out which can be done at what time, and, um, sort of package the whole thing in a {disfmarker} in a re in a few more complicated um, structure. That's for the data collection. As for SmartKom, I'm {disfmarker} the last SmartKom meeting I mentioned that we have some problems with the synthesis, which as of this morning should be resolved. And, so,Professor F: Good.Grad B:" should be" means they aren't yet, but {disfmarker} but I think I have the info now that I need. Plus, Johno and I are meeting tomorrow, so maybe uh uh, when tomorrow is over, we're done. And ha n hav we'll never have to look at it again Maybe it'll take some more time, to be realistic, but at least we're {disfmarker} we're seeing the end of the tunnel there. That was that. Um, the uh, uh I don't think we need to discuss the formalism that'll be done officially s once we're done. Um, something {disfmarker} he's {disfmarker} he's {disfmarker} he's {disfmarker} as you said, he's, like the state legislature, he's trying to offer us bribes.Grad A: At least this is a private meeting. Right, exactly, OK, that's the link.Grad B: This uh {disfmarker} Oh, they refused the budget again Is it {disfmarker} so about CITRIS Yeah, still nothing.Professor F: Uh, this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} t the s we're, uh, involved in a literally three hundred million dollar uh, program. Uh, with the State of California. And, the State of California is now a month and a half behind its legis its legally required date to approve a budget. So the budget has not been approved. And two days ago {disfmarker} There's two l you know, so, two branches of legislature. One branch approved it,Grad C: Mm - hmm.Professor F: and, um, yesterdayday {comment} there was this uh {disfmarker} uh I thought that the other branch would just approve it, but now there's actually a little back sliding to people who {disfmarker} who approved it got flak from there, eh anyway. So, um {disfmarker} Oh! I have to tell you a wonderful story about this, OK And then we'll go. So, I {disfmarker} it turns out I wound up having lunch today with a guy named Tom Kalil. KILL {disfmarker} KALIL. And, uh, he now works at Berkeley. In fact he's hired to run a lot of CITRIS, even though we don't have the money they {disfmarker} So they've been hiring people right and left, so, uh, they think the money's coming. So {disfmarker} and he was, I think, the chief staffer to Clinton on technology matters. He was in the White House, I don't remember what he was saying. A anyway, like that. And, is now doing all the politics for CITRIS, And so, you know, it's easier to specify the CPT and all. Um, so I think that's about as far as I've gone on the PRM stuff.Professor F: WellGrad D: Right.Professor F: No. So y you didn't yet tell us what the output is.Grad D: The output.Professor F: So what decisions does this makeGrad D: OK. So it only makes two decisions, in this model. And one is basically how desirable a site is meaning, um, how good it matches the needs of a user. And the other is the mode of the visit, whether th It's the EVA decision. Um, so, instead of um, {vocalsound} doing a lot of, you know, computation about, you know, which one site it wants of {disfmarker} the user wants to visit, I'll come {disfmarker} well, try to come up with like, sort of a list of sites. And for each site, you know, where {disfmarker} h how {disfmarker} how well it fits, and basically a rating of how well it fits and what to do with it. So. Anything else I missedProfessor F: So that was pretty quick. She's ac uh uh Eva's got a little write - up on it that uh, probably gives the {disfmarker} the details to anybody who needs them. Um, so the {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you didn't look at all yet to see if there's anybody has a implementation.Grad D: No, not yet, um {disfmarker}Professor F: OK. So one {disfmarker} so one of the questions, you know, about these P R Ms isGrad D: Mm - hmm.Professor F: uh, we aren't gonna build our own interpreter, so if {disfmarker} if we can't find one, then we uh, go off and do something else and wait until s one appears. Uh, so one of the things that Eva's gonna some work on topic spottingProfessor F: Yeah. St - statistical stuff. That would be a very good idea.Grad A: w um, which is, I mean, you {disfmarker} I mean. I don't {disfmarker} Depending on how well you wanna integrate with that end,Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad A: you know, like, taking the data and fig you said the learning systems that figure out {disfmarker} We {disfmarker} There's someone in ICSI who actually has been working on {disfmarker} has worked on that kinda stuff, and he's worked with frame net, so you could talk to him about, you know, both of those things at once.Grad C: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.Grad A: So. And he just finished writing a draft of his thesis. So. I u {vocalsound} Dan Gildea, GILDEA.Grad C: So, uh, who is that againGrad A: And, he's in one of the rooms on the fifth floor and stuff,Grad B: Who I can take you to his office.Grad A: and {disfmarker}Grad B: It's just around the corner.Grad C: OK, great.Grad A: Hmm. Well, if you fal solve the problem, {vocalsound} hope you can do one for us too.Professor F: Alright, was there anything else for this One of these times soon we're gonna hear about construal.Grad B: Yeah. I'm sure. I have um {disfmarker} I think it was November two thousand three or some {disfmarker} No. Wh - I had something in my calendar.Professor F: Oh, OK. Right.Grad B: Um,Grad E: Wait a second. That's a long way away.Professor F: Good thinking!Grad B: Uh well, maybe I can {disfmarker} I can bribe my way out of this. So. So I did some double checking and it seems like spring break in two thousand {vocalsound} one.Grad A: Talk about changing the topic.Grad B: No.Professor F: Well, no, but he's do over the next few weeks is see if we can track that down. Uh, the people at Stanford write papers as if they had one, but, um, we'll see. So w Anyway. So that's a {disfmarker} a major open issue. If there is an interpreter, it looks like you know, what Eva's got should run and we should be able to actually um, try to solve, you know, the problems, to actually take the data, and do it. Uh, and we'll see. Uh, I actually think it is cleaner, and the ability to instantiate, you know, instance of people and sites and stuff, um, will help in the expression. Whether the inference gets any faster or not I don't know. Uh, it wouldn't surprise me if it {disfmarker} if it doesn't.Grad D: Mm - hmm.Professor F: You know, it's the same kind of information. I think there are things that you can express this way which you can't express in a normal belief - net, uh, without going to some incredible hacking of {disfmarker} sort of rebuilding it on the fly. I mean, the notion of instantiating your el elements from the ontology and stuff fits this very nicely and doesn't fit very well into the extended belief - net. So that was one of the main reasons for doing it. Um. I don't know. So, uh, people who have thought about the problem, like Robert i it looked to me like if {comment} Eva were able to come up with a {vocalsound} you know, value for each of a number of uh, sites plus its EVA thing, that a travel planner should be able to take it from there. And {disfmarker} you know, with some other information about how much time the person has and whatever, and then

Summarize the meeting

The first phase of the data collection has finished. There is a new wizard for phase two, during which subjects will be given more complex scenarios. An alternative representation of the Bayes-net, it depicts context features as classes, and dependencies as relations between them. Following this, a visiting researcher presented an overview of a parallel project at the International University. It attempts to build a smart tutoring system for a computer science course. The assumption is that document searches can give more personalised results, if they take into account contextual parameters (user, situation). There were also further suggestions for meetings with ICSI researchers.

we're gonna skip through thUser Interface: Can we see the white-board on our laptopsProject Manager: No, no. Just on the on the screen over there.User Interface: No, I saw I saw the file, the smart-board that X_B_K_ but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh, no. Probably is, but I don't know if the software is on the laptop {gap}. Is is {disfmarker} if it's mainly a thing for in the meeting, so I don't think it's {disfmarker} I don't know if it's important.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: This an explanation of the smart-boards. There is a tool-bar over here. It's quite simple. You have the the pen function, eraser function. It's like a very simple uh paint application. Uh, we {disfmarker} well, we use the same file during uh the whole day, and uh you can make new sheets by uh by pu puttin pressing on the blank button. It works like this. Oh. {vocalsound} If pen is selected, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, no no.User Interface: With that penProject Manager: It's not {disfmarker} But it is pen. It's not working like a pen yet.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Huh. Huh.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: It's doing some stuff now. So you can use a pen.User Interface: Little bit slower.Project Manager: You can use an eraser. And you can make new uh fi uh new blanks, and you can change uh the line width and the colour of the pen by pressing on forward, which y you have to select pen format. And then select current colour or line width. So, it's quite easy. Uh well, now you're all uh acquainted with the different tools. Right, we're gonna try out the electronic white-boards. Uh, every participant should draw his favourite animal and some of its favourite characteristics,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: on blank sheets what my uh favourite uh animal is,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: but the easiest animal I can think is is a bird.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh I will {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} You know, I thought of that actually.User Interface: That's my bird. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} YeahMarketing: Yeah.User Interface: Isn't it quite {disfmarker} it's a little bit light.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, another colour maybe. A red one.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: A small one. Uh, line width. Two Three. Oh that's okay. That's another one.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, tell us something about uh your favourite characteristics of these uh particular birds.User Interface: {vocalsound} Ano {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} it's a {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Its simplicity. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, it's uh the most simple uh animal I know, I think.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um, I don't know. Maybe because uh there's there's some s uh free uh maybe in the sky or something like that.Project Manager: Oh, okay. Okay.User Interface: Maybe a little bit. Yeah. I don't know.Project Manager: Okay. No, uh it's clear.User Interface: So {gap} more uh birdsProject Manager: N no {vocalsound} no.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We get your point. Okay. Who wants to be nextUser Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} Okay, {vocalsound} okay, {vocalsound} okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah, whatever. I'll go next.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thanks.User Interface: MMarketing: I haven't got a favourite animal too, so {disfmarker}User Interface: Pictionary. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh. {vocalsound} What should I drawIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: A cow.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Thank you,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'll draw a penguin. {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound} I'll draw a penguin. Whatever. I can't draw, so you can start to laugh already.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I'll do so. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Whatever. Something like that.Project Marketing: {vocalsound} Hello. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Dang it.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And then you have to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot.Marketing: Alright.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: It's important to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot over here.User Interface: Okay. No, that's okay. Joost, your mouse.Marketing: WhatUser Interface: No mouse neededMarketing: I've got a touch-pad.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Do you know how how I can wake it upUser Interface: A touch-padMarketing: No, my laptop.User Interface: Slap it.Marketing: {vocalsound} You with your brilliant ideas. I don't know if I can touch the power button. Do you know how how I can wake it upUser Interface: Is {disfmarker}Project Manager: No. Yeah. Try the power button.Marketing: Oh.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on, move it.User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Now, wake up, bitch.Project Manager: Huh.User Interface: F_ five. F_ five {gap}.Industrial Designer: I've lost my screen. Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, so did I.User Interface: I don't.Marketing: I closed it. That wasn that wasn't very smart, I guess.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on. Get back to me. Yes.Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I closed the {disfmarker}Marketing: I closed it.User Interface: You've got your name. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, my name is name.Marketing: No, I didn't restart it, I just closed it. Yes.User Interface: Hope it working.Marketing: Alright.Industrial Designer: No.User Interface: Never close your laptop.Project Manager: Yeah Everybody's readyUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Great. Thanks.Project Manager: Great. Well, welcome to the kick-off meeting. I uh forgot to put my name over here, it's uh {vocalsound} it's Martin. Uh, so you all know.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, this is the agenda for today. Well, the opening is what I'm doing right now.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh, we gonna do some acquaintance acquaintance things. Uh give some um examples of the tool training, project plan discussion and the closing. We not like the button to enter text on top of the remote control and the button to um, yeah, to minimise it to this this {vocalsound} {disfmarker} or whatever o o other functions {vocalsound} totally somewhere else.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah.Marketing: I think we should group them.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And same for the for the volume buttons and the the tProject Manager: And uh, is it gonna be a remote control that's um {disfmarker} what it can be used for different kind of equipment, like your T_V_ and your home stereoMarketing: Well I was I was thinking uh since a T_V_ is uh mostly used together with a V_C_R_ or D_V_D_ player or recorder, and not with a stereo, I think it should be good to include functions for V_C_R_s and D_V_D_ players, recorders.Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But uh, the D_V_D_ players and home cinema sets often double as stereo hi-fi sets probably.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: It's what, from my experience.User Interface: But isn't it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: I don't know. Hi-fi set is uh not often used uh as I know of in combination with television.Project Manager: Okay. But we gonna {disfmarker}User Interface: It's only for television, I thought. Not {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes.Project Manager: Oh, it is only for televisUser Interface: {gap} I thought it was only for television. So so we probably don't have to have to uh have the functions for D_V_D_ player or V_C_R_.Marketing: Yes, it is only for television, but uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: So wha what {disfmarker} What wha {vocalsound} what uh what document {disfmarker}Marketing: Well {disfmarker} well we we're gonna brainstorm about that. If we think it's useful, we do it.Project Manager: But, where where did it uh {disfmarker} Where did you find thatUser Interface: Uh, in the email.Project Manager: Oh, okay.User Okay,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and then we are uh through the tool training, I guess.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I wouldn't call it training, but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay, this is uh something about the project finance. The selling price of our remote control is gonna be twenty five Euros. And our profit aim is fifteen million Euros. We're very ambitious on this one. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: The market range is international, so it's gonna be sold world-wide, and the production cost should be a maximum of twelve Euro fifty per remote control. So that's clear. {gap} {disfmarker} YeahUser Interface: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Alright.Project Manager: Okay, we're now gonna discuss some stuff when {disfmarker} well, we're gonna brainstorm about uh what kind of kemoro romo remote control it's gonna be. Uh, well tell me about your experiences with the remote controls. Do you have uh {disfmarker} know what good experiences with remote controls Or do they annoy you sometimesIndustrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: Are they difficult to understand, or maybe they don't interact with different kind of uh equipment very wellUser Interface: Hmm.Marketing: I don't th I don't think the four of us got problems with remote controls,Project Manager: Yeah, okay.Marketing: but if you see elderly people, all these buttons, and then they buy new T_V_ because their previous one was stolen or whatever.User Interface: Different.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And then a totally different remote control with with different functions on different places, and half of the functions a are removed, or whatever. Uh, so I think what we need is is a clear uh remote control with uh grouped buttons, you know. All th all the buttons which apply to the text functions in in one uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Different functions of of uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Well, one area or whatever,

What did the group discuss about adding support for DVD players to the remote controls

Project Manager suggested designing a remote control useful for multiple devices such as TV and home stereo. Marketing disagreed by pointing out that TV was mostly used with VCR or DVD player or recorders, functions for which should be included, rather than with a stereo. Against this point, Project Manager argued that DVD players and home cinema sets usually doubled as stereo hi-fi sets. The discussion took a turn when the User interface disagreed and suggested designing a remote control only for televisions. Project Manager insisted on including other functions as most remote controls did and everyone was on board in the end.

what my uh favourite uh animal is,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: but the easiest animal I can think is is a bird.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh I will {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} You know, I thought of that actually.User Interface: That's my bird. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} YeahMarketing: Yeah.User Interface: Isn't it quite {disfmarker} it's a little bit light.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, another colour maybe. A red one.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: A small one. Uh, line width. Two Three. Oh that's okay. That's another one.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, tell us something about uh your favourite characteristics of these uh particular birds.User Interface: {vocalsound} Ano {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} it's a {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Its simplicity. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, it's uh the most simple uh animal I know, I think.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um, I don't know. Maybe because uh there's there's some s uh free uh maybe in the sky or something like that.Project Manager: Oh, okay. Okay.User Interface: Maybe a little bit. Yeah. I don't know.Project Manager: Okay. No, uh it's clear.User Interface: So {gap} more uh birdsProject Manager: N no {vocalsound} no.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We get your point. Okay. Who wants to be nextUser Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} Okay, {vocalsound} okay, {vocalsound} okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah, whatever. I'll go next.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thanks.User Interface: MMarketing: I haven't got a favourite animal too, so {disfmarker}User Interface: Pictionary. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh. {vocalsound} What should I drawIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: A cow.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Thank you,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'll draw a penguin. {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound} I'll draw a penguin. Whatever. I can't draw, so you can start to laugh already.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I'll do so. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Whatever. Something like that.Project we're gonna skip through thUser Interface: Can we see the white-board on our laptopsProject Manager: No, no. Just on the on the screen over there.User Interface: No, I saw I saw the file, the smart-board that X_B_K_ but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh, no. Probably is, but I don't know if the software is on the laptop {gap}. Is is {disfmarker} if it's mainly a thing for in the meeting, so I don't think it's {disfmarker} I don't know if it's important.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: This an explanation of the smart-boards. There is a tool-bar over here. It's quite simple. You have the the pen function, eraser function. It's like a very simple uh paint application. Uh, we {disfmarker} well, we use the same file during uh the whole day, and uh you can make new sheets by uh by pu puttin pressing on the blank button. It works like this. Oh. {vocalsound} If pen is selected, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, no no.User Interface: With that penProject Manager: It's not {disfmarker} But it is pen. It's not working like a pen yet.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Huh. Huh.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: It's doing some stuff now. So you can use a pen.User Interface: Little bit slower.Project Manager: You can use an eraser. And you can make new uh fi uh new blanks, and you can change uh the line width and the colour of the pen by pressing on forward, which y you have to select pen format. And then select current colour or line width. So, it's quite easy. Uh well, now you're all uh acquainted with the different tools. Right, we're gonna try out the electronic white-boards. Uh, every participant should draw his favourite animal and some of its favourite characteristics,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: on blank sheets Marketing: {vocalsound} Hello. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Dang it.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And then you have to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot.Marketing: Alright.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: It's important to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot over here.User Interface: Okay. No, that's okay. Joost, your mouse.Marketing: WhatUser Interface: No mouse neededMarketing: I've got a touch-pad.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Do you know how how I can wake it upUser Interface: A touch-padMarketing: No, my laptop.User Interface: Slap it.Marketing: {vocalsound} You with your brilliant ideas. I don't know if I can touch the power button. Do you know how how I can wake it upUser Interface: Is {disfmarker}Project Manager: No. Yeah. Try the power button.Marketing: Oh.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on, move it.User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Now, wake up, bitch.Project Manager: Huh.User Interface: F_ five. F_ five {gap}.Industrial Designer: I've lost my screen. Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, so did I.User Interface: I don't.Marketing: I closed it. That wasn that wasn't very smart, I guess.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on. Get back to me. Yes.Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I closed the {disfmarker}Marketing: I closed it.User Interface: You've got your name. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, my name is name.Marketing: No, I didn't restart it, I just closed it. Yes.User Interface: Hope it working.Marketing: Alright.Industrial Designer: No.User Interface: Never close your laptop.Project Manager: Yeah Everybody's readyUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Great. Thanks.Project Manager: Great. Well, welcome to the kick-off meeting. I uh forgot to put my name over here, it's uh {vocalsound} it's Martin. Uh, so you all know.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, this is the agenda for today. Well, the opening is what I'm doing right now.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh, we gonna do some acquaintance acquaintance things. Uh give some um examples of the tool training, project plan discussion and the closing. We Okay,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and then we are uh through the tool training, I guess.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I wouldn't call it training, but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay, this is uh something about the project finance. The selling price of our remote control is gonna be twenty five Euros. And our profit aim is fifteen million Euros. We're very ambitious on this one. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: The market range is international, so it's gonna be sold world-wide, and the production cost should be a maximum of twelve Euro fifty per remote control. So that's clear. {gap} {disfmarker} YeahUser Interface: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Alright.Project Manager: Okay, we're now gonna discuss some stuff when {disfmarker} well, we're gonna brainstorm about uh what kind of kemoro romo remote control it's gonna be. Uh, well tell me about your experiences with the remote controls. Do you have uh {disfmarker} know what good experiences with remote controls Or do they annoy you sometimesIndustrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: Are they difficult to understand, or maybe they don't interact with different kind of uh equipment very wellUser Interface: Hmm.Marketing: I don't th I don't think the four of us got problems with remote controls,Project Manager: Yeah, okay.Marketing: but if you see elderly people, all these buttons, and then they buy new T_V_ because their previous one was stolen or whatever.User Interface: Different.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And then a totally different remote control with with different functions on different places, and half of the functions a are removed, or whatever. Uh, so I think what we need is is a clear uh remote control with uh grouped buttons, you know. All th all the buttons which apply to the text functions in in one uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Different functions of of uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Well, one area or whatever, to you by your personal coach. I don't know how much time we have left.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, not many I guess. We started at twelve.Marketing: You just got a message.Project Manager: Oh, and what does it saidMarketing: And it said uh five minutes, so we got four and a half.User Interface: Oh, I don't {disfmarker}Project Manager: W Okay, well um {disfmarker}User Interface: I didn't get a message.Marketing: No. He's the whatever.User Interface: Oh, the Project Manager.Industrial Designer: Team Leader. {vocalsound}Project Manager: No, we're uh ahead of schedule then.Marketing: Team Leader. {vocalsound} He is the whatever. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, close it. I'm gonna make some minutes or take some minutes. {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes.Project Manager: And uh it's it's clear you can put the stuff in the project documents presentations.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: You can all {disfmarker} Or we're all uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Project joc project documents is for showing uh on the white-board.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah, but we're all familiar with uh uh Microsoft PowerPoint, are weMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah, okay.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: I'm gonna wri uh write some stuff downMarketing: Alright.Project Manager: and then we're ready.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Or we can leave already {gap} I guess.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: {gap} or uh or sh or should we uh {disfmarker} or is important that we leave at exact uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: No. I don't think so.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't think {disfmarker} Oh {disfmarker}Marketing: YesProject Manager: Yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh.Marketing: Great.Project Manager: We'll see each other in uh thirty minutes.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah. Good luck.Project Manager: Yeah, good luck.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I will need it. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I will need it. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}

What did User Interface think of adding support for DVD players to the remote control

User Interface disagreed on adding support for DVD players to the remote control as the email stated that it should be a television remote control.

what my uh favourite uh animal is,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: but the easiest animal I can think is is a bird.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh I will {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} You know, I thought of that actually.User Interface: That's my bird. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} YeahMarketing: Yeah.User Interface: Isn't it quite {disfmarker} it's a little bit light.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, another colour maybe. A red one.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: A small one. Uh, line width. Two Three. Oh that's okay. That's another one.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, tell us something about uh your favourite characteristics of these uh particular birds.User Interface: {vocalsound} Ano {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} it's a {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Its simplicity. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, it's uh the most simple uh animal I know, I think.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um, I don't know. Maybe because uh there's there's some s uh free uh maybe in the sky or something like that.Project Manager: Oh, okay. Okay.User Interface: Maybe a little bit. Yeah. I don't know.Project Manager: Okay. No, uh it's clear.User Interface: So {gap} more uh birdsProject Manager: N no {vocalsound} no.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We get your point. Okay. Who wants to be nextUser Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} Okay, {vocalsound} okay, {vocalsound} okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah, whatever. I'll go next.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thanks.User Interface: MMarketing: I haven't got a favourite animal too, so {disfmarker}User Interface: Pictionary. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh. {vocalsound} What should I drawIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: A cow.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Thank you,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'll draw a penguin. {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound} I'll draw a penguin. Whatever. I can't draw, so you can start to laugh already.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I'll do so. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Whatever. Something like that.Project we're gonna skip through thUser Interface: Can we see the white-board on our laptopsProject Manager: No, no. Just on the on the screen over there.User Interface: No, I saw I saw the file, the smart-board that X_B_K_ but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh, no. Probably is, but I don't know if the software is on the laptop {gap}. Is is {disfmarker} if it's mainly a thing for in the meeting, so I don't think it's {disfmarker} I don't know if it's important.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: This an explanation of the smart-boards. There is a tool-bar over here. It's quite simple. You have the the pen function, eraser function. It's like a very simple uh paint application. Uh, we {disfmarker} well, we use the same file during uh the whole day, and uh you can make new sheets by uh by pu puttin pressing on the blank button. It works like this. Oh. {vocalsound} If pen is selected, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, no no.User Interface: With that penProject Manager: It's not {disfmarker} But it is pen. It's not working like a pen yet.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Huh. Huh.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: It's doing some stuff now. So you can use a pen.User Interface: Little bit slower.Project Manager: You can use an eraser. And you can make new uh fi uh new blanks, and you can change uh the line width and the colour of the pen by pressing on forward, which y you have to select pen format. And then select current colour or line width. So, it's quite easy. Uh well, now you're all uh acquainted with the different tools. Right, we're gonna try out the electronic white-boards. Uh, every participant should draw his favourite animal and some of its favourite characteristics,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: on blank sheets Marketing: {vocalsound} Hello. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Dang it.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And then you have to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot.Marketing: Alright.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: It's important to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot over here.User Interface: Okay. No, that's okay. Joost, your mouse.Marketing: WhatUser Interface: No mouse neededMarketing: I've got a touch-pad.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Do you know how how I can wake it upUser Interface: A touch-padMarketing: No, my laptop.User Interface: Slap it.Marketing: {vocalsound} You with your brilliant ideas. I don't know if I can touch the power button. Do you know how how I can wake it upUser Interface: Is {disfmarker}Project Manager: No. Yeah. Try the power button.Marketing: Oh.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on, move it.User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Now, wake up, bitch.Project Manager: Huh.User Interface: F_ five. F_ five {gap}.Industrial Designer: I've lost my screen. Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, so did I.User Interface: I don't.Marketing: I closed it. That wasn that wasn't very smart, I guess.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on. Get back to me. Yes.Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I closed the {disfmarker}Marketing: I closed it.User Interface: You've got your name. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, my name is name.Marketing: No, I didn't restart it, I just closed it. Yes.User Interface: Hope it working.Marketing: Alright.Industrial Designer: No.User Interface: Never close your laptop.Project Manager: Yeah Everybody's readyUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Great. Thanks.Project Manager: Great. Well, welcome to the kick-off meeting. I uh forgot to put my name over here, it's uh {vocalsound} it's Martin. Uh, so you all know.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, this is the agenda for today. Well, the opening is what I'm doing right now.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh, we gonna do some acquaintance acquaintance things. Uh give some um examples of the tool training, project plan discussion and the closing. We Okay,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and then we are uh through the tool training, I guess.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I wouldn't call it training, but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay, this is uh something about the project finance. The selling price of our remote control is gonna be twenty five Euros. And our profit aim is fifteen million Euros. We're very ambitious on this one. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: The market range is international, so it's gonna be sold world-wide, and the production cost should be a maximum of twelve Euro fifty per remote control. So that's clear. {gap} {disfmarker} YeahUser Interface: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Alright.Project Manager: Okay, we're now gonna discuss some stuff when {disfmarker} well, we're gonna brainstorm about uh what kind of kemoro romo remote control it's gonna be. Uh, well tell me about your experiences with the remote controls. Do you have uh {disfmarker} know what good experiences with remote controls Or do they annoy you sometimesIndustrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: Are they difficult to understand, or maybe they don't interact with different kind of uh equipment very wellUser Interface: Hmm.Marketing: I don't th I don't think the four of us got problems with remote controls,Project Manager: Yeah, okay.Marketing: but if you see elderly people, all these buttons, and then they buy new T_V_ because their previous one was stolen or whatever.User Interface: Different.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And then a totally different remote control with with different functions on different places, and half of the functions a are removed, or whatever. Uh, so I think what we need is is a clear uh remote control with uh grouped buttons, you know. All th all the buttons which apply to the text functions in in one uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Different functions of of uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Well, one area or whatever, to you by your personal coach. I don't know how much time we have left.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, not many I guess. We started at twelve.Marketing: You just got a message.Project Manager: Oh, and what does it saidMarketing: And it said uh five minutes, so we got four and a half.User Interface: Oh, I don't {disfmarker}Project Manager: W Okay, well um {disfmarker}User Interface: I didn't get a message.Marketing: No. He's the whatever.User Interface: Oh, the Project Manager.Industrial Designer: Team Leader. {vocalsound}Project Manager: No, we're uh ahead of schedule then.Marketing: Team Leader. {vocalsound} He is the whatever. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, close it. I'm gonna make some minutes or take some minutes. {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes.Project Manager: And uh it's it's clear you can put the stuff in the project documents presentations.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: You can all {disfmarker} Or we're all uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Project joc project documents is for showing uh on the white-board.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah, but we're all familiar with uh uh Microsoft PowerPoint, are weMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah, okay.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: I'm gonna wri uh write some stuff downMarketing: Alright.Project Manager: and then we're ready.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Or we can leave already {gap} I guess.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: {gap} or uh or sh or should we uh {disfmarker} or is important that we leave at exact uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: No. I don't think so.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't think {disfmarker} Oh {disfmarker}Marketing: YesProject Manager: Yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh.Marketing: Great.Project Manager: We'll see each other in uh thirty minutes.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah. Good luck.Project Manager: Yeah, good luck.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I will need it. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I will need it. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}

What did Project Manager recommend to do when discussing adding support for DVD players to the remote control

Project Manager recommended to consider the practical value of adding support for DVD players to the remote control. If it was believed to be useful, then this idea would be adopted.

we're gonna skip through thUser Interface: Can we see the white-board on our laptopsProject Manager: No, no. Just on the on the screen over there.User Interface: No, I saw I saw the file, the smart-board that X_B_K_ but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh, no. Probably is, but I don't know if the software is on the laptop {gap}. Is is {disfmarker} if it's mainly a thing for in the meeting, so I don't think it's {disfmarker} I don't know if it's important.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: This an explanation of the smart-boards. There is a tool-bar over here. It's quite simple. You have the the pen function, eraser function. It's like a very simple uh paint application. Uh, we {disfmarker} well, we use the same file during uh the whole day, and uh you can make new sheets by uh by pu puttin pressing on the blank button. It works like this. Oh. {vocalsound} If pen is selected, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, no no.User Interface: With that penProject Manager: It's not {disfmarker} But it is pen. It's not working like a pen yet.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Huh. Huh.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: It's doing some stuff now. So you can use a pen.User Interface: Little bit slower.Project Manager: You can use an eraser. And you can make new uh fi uh new blanks, and you can change uh the line width and the colour of the pen by pressing on forward, which y you have to select pen format. And then select current colour or line width. So, it's quite easy. Uh well, now you're all uh acquainted with the different tools. Right, we're gonna try out the electronic white-boards. Uh, every participant should draw his favourite animal and some of its favourite characteristics,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: on blank sheets what my uh favourite uh animal is,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: but the easiest animal I can think is is a bird.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh I will {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} You know, I thought of that actually.User Interface: That's my bird. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} YeahMarketing: Yeah.User Interface: Isn't it quite {disfmarker} it's a little bit light.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, another colour maybe. A red one.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: A small one. Uh, line width. Two Three. Oh that's okay. That's another one.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, tell us something about uh your favourite characteristics of these uh particular birds.User Interface: {vocalsound} Ano {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} it's a {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Its simplicity. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, it's uh the most simple uh animal I know, I think.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um, I don't know. Maybe because uh there's there's some s uh free uh maybe in the sky or something like that.Project Manager: Oh, okay. Okay.User Interface: Maybe a little bit. Yeah. I don't know.Project Manager: Okay. No, uh it's clear.User Interface: So {gap} more uh birdsProject Manager: N no {vocalsound} no.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We get your point. Okay. Who wants to be nextUser Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} Okay, {vocalsound} okay, {vocalsound} okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah, whatever. I'll go next.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thanks.User Interface: MMarketing: I haven't got a favourite animal too, so {disfmarker}User Interface: Pictionary. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh. {vocalsound} What should I drawIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: A cow.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Thank you,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'll draw a penguin. {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound} I'll draw a penguin. Whatever. I can't draw, so you can start to laugh already.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I'll do so. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Whatever. Something like that.Project Marketing: {vocalsound} Hello. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Dang it.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And then you have to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot.Marketing: Alright.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: It's important to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot over here.User Interface: Okay. No, that's okay. Joost, your mouse.Marketing: WhatUser Interface: No mouse neededMarketing: I've got a touch-pad.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Do you know how how I can wake it upUser Interface: A touch-padMarketing: No, my laptop.User Interface: Slap it.Marketing: {vocalsound} You with your brilliant ideas. I don't know if I can touch the power button. Do you know how how I can wake it upUser Interface: Is {disfmarker}Project Manager: No. Yeah. Try the power button.Marketing: Oh.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on, move it.User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Now, wake up, bitch.Project Manager: Huh.User Interface: F_ five. F_ five {gap}.Industrial Designer: I've lost my screen. Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, so did I.User Interface: I don't.Marketing: I closed it. That wasn that wasn't very smart, I guess.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on. Get back to me. Yes.Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I closed the {disfmarker}Marketing: I closed it.User Interface: You've got your name. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, my name is name.Marketing: No, I didn't restart it, I just closed it. Yes.User Interface: Hope it working.Marketing: Alright.Industrial Designer: No.User Interface: Never close your laptop.Project Manager: Yeah Everybody's readyUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Great. Thanks.Project Manager: Great. Well, welcome to the kick-off meeting. I uh forgot to put my name over here, it's uh {vocalsound} it's Martin. Uh, so you all know.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, this is the agenda for today. Well, the opening is what I'm doing right now.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh, we gonna do some acquaintance acquaintance things. Uh give some um examples of the tool training, project plan discussion and the closing. We not like the button to enter text on top of the remote control and the button to um, yeah, to minimise it to this this {vocalsound} {disfmarker} or whatever o o other functions {vocalsound} totally somewhere else.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah.Marketing: I think we should group them.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And same for the for the volume buttons and the the tProject Manager: And uh, is it gonna be a remote control that's um {disfmarker} what it can be used for different kind of equipment, like your T_V_ and your home stereoMarketing: Well I was I was thinking uh since a T_V_ is uh mostly used together with a V_C_R_ or D_V_D_ player or recorder, and not with a stereo, I think it should be good to include functions for V_C_R_s and D_V_D_ players, recorders.Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But uh, the D_V_D_ players and home cinema sets often double as stereo hi-fi sets probably.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: It's what, from my experience.User Interface: But isn't it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: I don't know. Hi-fi set is uh not often used uh as I know of in combination with television.Project Manager: Okay. But we gonna {disfmarker}User Interface: It's only for television, I thought. Not {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes.Project Manager: Oh, it is only for televisUser Interface: {gap} I thought it was only for television. So so we probably don't have to have to uh have the functions for D_V_D_ player or V_C_R_.Marketing: Yes, it is only for television, but uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: So wha what {disfmarker} What wha {vocalsound} what uh what document {disfmarker}Marketing: Well {disfmarker} well we we're gonna brainstorm about that. If we think it's useful, we do it.Project Manager: But, where where did it uh {disfmarker} Where did you find thatUser Interface: Uh, in the email.Project Manager: Oh, okay.User to you by your personal coach. I don't know how much time we have left.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, not many I guess. We started at twelve.Marketing: You just got a message.Project Manager: Oh, and what does it saidMarketing: And it said uh five minutes, so we got four and a half.User Interface: Oh, I don't {disfmarker}Project Manager: W Okay, well um {disfmarker}User Interface: I didn't get a message.Marketing: No. He's the whatever.User Interface: Oh, the Project Manager.Industrial Designer: Team Leader. {vocalsound}Project Manager: No, we're uh ahead of schedule then.Marketing: Team Leader. {vocalsound} He is the whatever. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, close it. I'm gonna make some minutes or take some minutes. {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes.Project Manager: And uh it's it's clear you can put the stuff in the project documents presentations.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: You can all {disfmarker} Or we're all uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Project joc project documents is for showing uh on the white-board.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah, but we're all familiar with uh uh Microsoft PowerPoint, are weMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah, okay.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: I'm gonna wri uh write some stuff downMarketing: Alright.Project Manager: and then we're ready.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Or we can leave already {gap} I guess.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: {gap} or uh or sh or should we uh {disfmarker} or is important that we leave at exact uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: No. I don't think so.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't think {disfmarker} Oh {disfmarker}Marketing: YesProject Manager: Yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh.Marketing: Great.Project Manager: We'll see each other in uh thirty minutes.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah. Good luck.Project Manager: Yeah, good luck.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I will need it. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I will need it. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}

What did the group discuss about features to make the remote control trendy

Project Manager suggested a can opener beneath the remote control, three players inside it, and different fronts on it. The rest of the team remained silent about the first idea and negative about the other two. Moreover, Industrial Designer pointed out that it needed to go with fashion; and User Interface shared the idea of keeping it simple and using an international standard.

what my uh favourite uh animal is,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: but the easiest animal I can think is is a bird.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh I will {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} You know, I thought of that actually.User Interface: That's my bird. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} YeahMarketing: Yeah.User Interface: Isn't it quite {disfmarker} it's a little bit light.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, another colour maybe. A red one.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: A small one. Uh, line width. Two Three. Oh that's okay. That's another one.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, tell us something about uh your favourite characteristics of these uh particular birds.User Interface: {vocalsound} Ano {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} it's a {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Its simplicity. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, it's uh the most simple uh animal I know, I think.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um, I don't know. Maybe because uh there's there's some s uh free uh maybe in the sky or something like that.Project Manager: Oh, okay. Okay.User Interface: Maybe a little bit. Yeah. I don't know.Project Manager: Okay. No, uh it's clear.User Interface: So {gap} more uh birdsProject Manager: N no {vocalsound} no.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We get your point. Okay. Who wants to be nextUser Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} Okay, {vocalsound} okay, {vocalsound} okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah, whatever. I'll go next.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thanks.User Interface: MMarketing: I haven't got a favourite animal too, so {disfmarker}User Interface: Pictionary. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh. {vocalsound} What should I drawIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: A cow.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Thank you,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'll draw a penguin. {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound} I'll draw a penguin. Whatever. I can't draw, so you can start to laugh already.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I'll do so. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Whatever. Something like that.Project we're gonna skip through thUser Interface: Can we see the white-board on our laptopsProject Manager: No, no. Just on the on the screen over there.User Interface: No, I saw I saw the file, the smart-board that X_B_K_ but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh, no. Probably is, but I don't know if the software is on the laptop {gap}. Is is {disfmarker} if it's mainly a thing for in the meeting, so I don't think it's {disfmarker} I don't know if it's important.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: This an explanation of the smart-boards. There is a tool-bar over here. It's quite simple. You have the the pen function, eraser function. It's like a very simple uh paint application. Uh, we {disfmarker} well, we use the same file during uh the whole day, and uh you can make new sheets by uh by pu puttin pressing on the blank button. It works like this. Oh. {vocalsound} If pen is selected, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, no no.User Interface: With that penProject Manager: It's not {disfmarker} But it is pen. It's not working like a pen yet.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Huh. Huh.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: It's doing some stuff now. So you can use a pen.User Interface: Little bit slower.Project Manager: You can use an eraser. And you can make new uh fi uh new blanks, and you can change uh the line width and the colour of the pen by pressing on forward, which y you have to select pen format. And then select current colour or line width. So, it's quite easy. Uh well, now you're all uh acquainted with the different tools. Right, we're gonna try out the electronic white-boards. Uh, every participant should draw his favourite animal and some of its favourite characteristics,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: on blank sheets Marketing: {vocalsound} Hello. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Dang it.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And then you have to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot.Marketing: Alright.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: It's important to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot over here.User Interface: Okay. No, that's okay. Joost, your mouse.Marketing: WhatUser Interface: No mouse neededMarketing: I've got a touch-pad.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Do you know how how I can wake it upUser Interface: A touch-padMarketing: No, my laptop.User Interface: Slap it.Marketing: {vocalsound} You with your brilliant ideas. I don't know if I can touch the power button. Do you know how how I can wake it upUser Interface: Is {disfmarker}Project Manager: No. Yeah. Try the power button.Marketing: Oh.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on, move it.User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Now, wake up, bitch.Project Manager: Huh.User Interface: F_ five. F_ five {gap}.Industrial Designer: I've lost my screen. Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, so did I.User Interface: I don't.Marketing: I closed it. That wasn that wasn't very smart, I guess.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on. Get back to me. Yes.Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I closed the {disfmarker}Marketing: I closed it.User Interface: You've got your name. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, my name is name.Marketing: No, I didn't restart it, I just closed it. Yes.User Interface: Hope it working.Marketing: Alright.Industrial Designer: No.User Interface: Never close your laptop.Project Manager: Yeah Everybody's readyUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Great. Thanks.Project Manager: Great. Well, welcome to the kick-off meeting. I uh forgot to put my name over here, it's uh {vocalsound} it's Martin. Uh, so you all know.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, this is the agenda for today. Well, the opening is what I'm doing right now.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh, we gonna do some acquaintance acquaintance things. Uh give some um examples of the tool training, project plan discussion and the closing. We to you by your personal coach. I don't know how much time we have left.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, not many I guess. We started at twelve.Marketing: You just got a message.Project Manager: Oh, and what does it saidMarketing: And it said uh five minutes, so we got four and a half.User Interface: Oh, I don't {disfmarker}Project Manager: W Okay, well um {disfmarker}User Interface: I didn't get a message.Marketing: No. He's the whatever.User Interface: Oh, the Project Manager.Industrial Designer: Team Leader. {vocalsound}Project Manager: No, we're uh ahead of schedule then.Marketing: Team Leader. {vocalsound} He is the whatever. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, close it. I'm gonna make some minutes or take some minutes. {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes.Project Manager: And uh it's it's clear you can put the stuff in the project documents presentations.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: You can all {disfmarker} Or we're all uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Project joc project documents is for showing uh on the white-board.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah, but we're all familiar with uh uh Microsoft PowerPoint, are weMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah, okay.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: I'm gonna wri uh write some stuff downMarketing: Alright.Project Manager: and then we're ready.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Or we can leave already {gap} I guess.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: {gap} or uh or sh or should we uh {disfmarker} or is important that we leave at exact uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: No. I don't think so.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't think {disfmarker} Oh {disfmarker}Marketing: YesProject Manager: Yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh.Marketing: Great.Project Manager: We'll see each other in uh thirty minutes.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah. Good luck.Project Manager: Yeah, good luck.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I will need it. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I will need it. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} with different colours, with different pen widths. Uh, I'll start off then. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I'll use this uh same sheet. Alright. Oh, let me think. Different colours. Oh.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, I'm gonna draw um a p piranha. Uh, a fish.User Interface: {vocalsound} piranha. Okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm. I'm gonna use some different colour {gap} now.User Interface: Oh.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Some {disfmarker} a little white. Looks like a fish. Think it is. Oh.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh. {vocalsound} Uh, colour. This is black I think so.User Interface: Yellow {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh. Oh, this is just uh {vocalsound} useless uh drawings but {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh teeth. I need teeth. {vocalsound} Well, they're not supposed to be green, or whatever colour this is.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: Okay. What was uh {disfmarker} I have su to sum up its favourite characterisUser Interface: Different.Project Manager: Well, I like its uh sharp {disfmarker} razor sharp teeth. {vocalsound} Plus, uh the the big uh forehead and uh a small uh, well a small actual face. And I like its overall uh aggressive look and {disfmarker} Well, that's what I like about uh piranha. I think that's kind of what uh the intention should be.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Well, who wants to be nextMarketing: Nobody, I guess. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I will try. Yeah. I will try. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: You go, Guido Okay. Uh, make a new sheet. Uh, it's by pressing on blank.User Interface: BlankProject Manager: Yep.User Interface: Okay. Then pen againMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yep.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: And uh {disfmarker} so in the format menu you can choose the different uh colours and uh pen widths.User Interface: Okay, um {disfmarker}Marketing: Format.User Interface: {gap} control. Uh {disfmarker} Ah, purple. Um, I don't know

What did User Interface recommend to do when discussing features to make the remote control trendy and why

When discussing features to make the remote control trendy, User Interface recommended to keep the remote control simple in order to gain a whole market and to use a standard as it was aimed at an international market.

we're gonna skip through thUser Interface: Can we see the white-board on our laptopsProject Manager: No, no. Just on the on the screen over there.User Interface: No, I saw I saw the file, the smart-board that X_B_K_ but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh, no. Probably is, but I don't know if the software is on the laptop {gap}. Is is {disfmarker} if it's mainly a thing for in the meeting, so I don't think it's {disfmarker} I don't know if it's important.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: This an explanation of the smart-boards. There is a tool-bar over here. It's quite simple. You have the the pen function, eraser function. It's like a very simple uh paint application. Uh, we {disfmarker} well, we use the same file during uh the whole day, and uh you can make new sheets by uh by pu puttin pressing on the blank button. It works like this. Oh. {vocalsound} If pen is selected, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, no no.User Interface: With that penProject Manager: It's not {disfmarker} But it is pen. It's not working like a pen yet.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Huh. Huh.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: It's doing some stuff now. So you can use a pen.User Interface: Little bit slower.Project Manager: You can use an eraser. And you can make new uh fi uh new blanks, and you can change uh the line width and the colour of the pen by pressing on forward, which y you have to select pen format. And then select current colour or line width. So, it's quite easy. Uh well, now you're all uh acquainted with the different tools. Right, we're gonna try out the electronic white-boards. Uh, every participant should draw his favourite animal and some of its favourite characteristics,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: on blank sheets what my uh favourite uh animal is,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: but the easiest animal I can think is is a bird.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh I will {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} You know, I thought of that actually.User Interface: That's my bird. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} YeahMarketing: Yeah.User Interface: Isn't it quite {disfmarker} it's a little bit light.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, another colour maybe. A red one.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: A small one. Uh, line width. Two Three. Oh that's okay. That's another one.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, tell us something about uh your favourite characteristics of these uh particular birds.User Interface: {vocalsound} Ano {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} it's a {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Its simplicity. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, it's uh the most simple uh animal I know, I think.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um, I don't know. Maybe because uh there's there's some s uh free uh maybe in the sky or something like that.Project Manager: Oh, okay. Okay.User Interface: Maybe a little bit. Yeah. I don't know.Project Manager: Okay. No, uh it's clear.User Interface: So {gap} more uh birdsProject Manager: N no {vocalsound} no.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We get your point. Okay. Who wants to be nextUser Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} Okay, {vocalsound} okay, {vocalsound} okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah, whatever. I'll go next.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thanks.User Interface: MMarketing: I haven't got a favourite animal too, so {disfmarker}User Interface: Pictionary. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh. {vocalsound} What should I drawIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: A cow.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Thank you,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'll draw a penguin. {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound} I'll draw a penguin. Whatever. I can't draw, so you can start to laugh already.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I'll do so. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Whatever. Something like that.Project not like the button to enter text on top of the remote control and the button to um, yeah, to minimise it to this this {vocalsound} {disfmarker} or whatever o o other functions {vocalsound} totally somewhere else.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah.Marketing: I think we should group them.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And same for the for the volume buttons and the the tProject Manager: And uh, is it gonna be a remote control that's um {disfmarker} what it can be used for different kind of equipment, like your T_V_ and your home stereoMarketing: Well I was I was thinking uh since a T_V_ is uh mostly used together with a V_C_R_ or D_V_D_ player or recorder, and not with a stereo, I think it should be good to include functions for V_C_R_s and D_V_D_ players, recorders.Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But uh, the D_V_D_ players and home cinema sets often double as stereo hi-fi sets probably.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: It's what, from my experience.User Interface: But isn't it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: I don't know. Hi-fi set is uh not often used uh as I know of in combination with television.Project Manager: Okay. But we gonna {disfmarker}User Interface: It's only for television, I thought. Not {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes.Project Manager: Oh, it is only for televisUser Interface: {gap} I thought it was only for television. So so we probably don't have to have to uh have the functions for D_V_D_ player or V_C_R_.Marketing: Yes, it is only for television, but uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: So wha what {disfmarker} What wha {vocalsound} what uh what document {disfmarker}Marketing: Well {disfmarker} well we we're gonna brainstorm about that. If we think it's useful, we do it.Project Manager: But, where where did it uh {disfmarker} Where did you find thatUser Interface: Uh, in the email.Project Manager: Oh, okay.User Manager: Okay. Maybe with different type of fronts or uh {disfmarker}User Interface: It's international, so we have to use a standard.Project Manager: Well, m has to be something {vocalsound} spectacular or uh one which makes it {disfmarker}Marketing: Well that's an idea of course, yeah.Project Manager: We gonna skip back to the goals probably. Uh,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: original, trendly, and user-friendly {disfmarker} Well, we al also already talked about user-friendliness.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: No, well something trendy and original, well that that goes hand in hand I guess. When something is original, it tends to be trendy, probably,Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: or we should make it combination of that.'Kay, so you {vocalsound} {disfmarker} the um technical part of the process is something you're gonna look after for, so you have to think about what kind of uh equipment you want to uh, you know, you want to manage with it. Well, and that's an important part for you then, with gogors regards to the user-friendly part of it.User Interface: Use friendly. Yep.Project Manager: Well, and you uh should look out for what makes it trendy. {vocalsound} Well, you know, y like some special feature. Or some {disfmarker} {gap} Does it does it gets some gadgetness or something.Marketing: Yeah. Yes, what the market wishes.Project Manager: Okay. Well, the closing. Next meeting starts in thirty minutes. Individual, I think so. The the Industrial Designer will w or the working design, of course, we will uh {disfmarker} Already s said that. The User Interface Designer {vocalsound} {disfmarker} is it a User Inter User Interface {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Interface dMarketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: the technical functions design. And the Management Expert of uh {disfmarker} the Marketing Expert. User requirements specifi Well, this one was already clear to us. Specific instructions will be sent to you by your personal coach. I don't know how much time we have left.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, not many I guess. We started at twelve.Marketing: You just got a message.Project Manager: Oh, and what does it saidMarketing: And it said uh five minutes, so we got four and a half.User Interface: Oh, I don't {disfmarker}Project Manager: W Okay, well um {disfmarker}User Interface: I didn't get a message.Marketing: No. He's the whatever.User Interface: Oh, the Project Manager.Industrial Designer: Team Leader. {vocalsound}Project Manager: No, we're uh ahead of schedule then.Marketing: Team Leader. {vocalsound} He is the whatever. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, close it. I'm gonna make some minutes or take some minutes. {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes.Project Manager: And uh it's it's clear you can put the stuff in the project documents presentations.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: You can all {disfmarker} Or we're all uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Project joc project documents is for showing uh on the white-board.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah, but we're all familiar with uh uh Microsoft PowerPoint, are weMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah, okay.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: I'm gonna wri uh write some stuff downMarketing: Alright.Project Manager: and then we're ready.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Or we can leave already {gap} I guess.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: {gap} or uh or sh or should we uh {disfmarker} or is important that we leave at exact uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: No. I don't think so.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't think {disfmarker} Oh {disfmarker}Marketing: YesProject Manager: Yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh.Marketing: Great.Project Manager: We'll see each other in uh thirty minutes.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah. Good luck.Project Manager: Yeah, good luck.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I will need it. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I will need it. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}

Summarise the discussion about grouping buttons on the remote control.

Marketing first of all suggested focusing on elderly people who really got problems with remote controls and then pointed out the unclear button allocation on remote controls. To solve this problem, Marketing put forward that the remote control buttons should be grouped based on functions they serve. Project Manager agreed.

we're gonna skip through thUser Interface: Can we see the white-board on our laptopsProject Manager: No, no. Just on the on the screen over there.User Interface: No, I saw I saw the file, the smart-board that X_B_K_ but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh, no. Probably is, but I don't know if the software is on the laptop {gap}. Is is {disfmarker} if it's mainly a thing for in the meeting, so I don't think it's {disfmarker} I don't know if it's important.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: This an explanation of the smart-boards. There is a tool-bar over here. It's quite simple. You have the the pen function, eraser function. It's like a very simple uh paint application. Uh, we {disfmarker} well, we use the same file during uh the whole day, and uh you can make new sheets by uh by pu puttin pressing on the blank button. It works like this. Oh. {vocalsound} If pen is selected, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh, no no.User Interface: With that penProject Manager: It's not {disfmarker} But it is pen. It's not working like a pen yet.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Huh. Huh.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: It's doing some stuff now. So you can use a pen.User Interface: Little bit slower.Project Manager: You can use an eraser. And you can make new uh fi uh new blanks, and you can change uh the line width and the colour of the pen by pressing on forward, which y you have to select pen format. And then select current colour or line width. So, it's quite easy. Uh well, now you're all uh acquainted with the different tools. Right, we're gonna try out the electronic white-boards. Uh, every participant should draw his favourite animal and some of its favourite characteristics,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: on blank sheets what my uh favourite uh animal is,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: but the easiest animal I can think is is a bird.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh I will {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} You know, I thought of that actually.User Interface: That's my bird. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} YeahMarketing: Yeah.User Interface: Isn't it quite {disfmarker} it's a little bit light.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, another colour maybe. A red one.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: A small one. Uh, line width. Two Three. Oh that's okay. That's another one.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, tell us something about uh your favourite characteristics of these uh particular birds.User Interface: {vocalsound} Ano {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} it's a {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Its simplicity. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, it's uh the most simple uh animal I know, I think.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um, I don't know. Maybe because uh there's there's some s uh free uh maybe in the sky or something like that.Project Manager: Oh, okay. Okay.User Interface: Maybe a little bit. Yeah. I don't know.Project Manager: Okay. No, uh it's clear.User Interface: So {gap} more uh birdsProject Manager: N no {vocalsound} no.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We get your point. Okay. Who wants to be nextUser Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} Okay, {vocalsound} okay, {vocalsound} okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah, whatever. I'll go next.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thanks.User Interface: MMarketing: I haven't got a favourite animal too, so {disfmarker}User Interface: Pictionary. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh. {vocalsound} What should I drawIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: A cow.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Thank you,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'll draw a penguin. {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound} I'll draw a penguin. Whatever. I can't draw, so you can start to laugh already.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I'll do so. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Whatever. Something like that.Project Marketing: {vocalsound} Hello. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Dang it.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And then you have to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot.Marketing: Alright.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: It's important to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot over here.User Interface: Okay. No, that's okay. Joost, your mouse.Marketing: WhatUser Interface: No mouse neededMarketing: I've got a touch-pad.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Do you know how how I can wake it upUser Interface: A touch-padMarketing: No, my laptop.User Interface: Slap it.Marketing: {vocalsound} You with your brilliant ideas. I don't know if I can touch the power button. Do you know how how I can wake it upUser Interface: Is {disfmarker}Project Manager: No. Yeah. Try the power button.Marketing: Oh.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on, move it.User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Now, wake up, bitch.Project Manager: Huh.User Interface: F_ five. F_ five {gap}.Industrial Designer: I've lost my screen. Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, so did I.User Interface: I don't.Marketing: I closed it. That wasn that wasn't very smart, I guess.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on. Get back to me. Yes.Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I closed the {disfmarker}Marketing: I closed it.User Interface: You've got your name. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, my name is name.Marketing: No, I didn't restart it, I just closed it. Yes.User Interface: Hope it working.Marketing: Alright.Industrial Designer: No.User Interface: Never close your laptop.Project Manager: Yeah Everybody's readyUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Great. Thanks.Project Manager: Great. Well, welcome to the kick-off meeting. I uh forgot to put my name over here, it's uh {vocalsound} it's Martin. Uh, so you all know.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, this is the agenda for today. Well, the opening is what I'm doing right now.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh, we gonna do some acquaintance acquaintance things. Uh give some um examples of the tool training, project plan discussion and the closing. We Manager: Okay. Maybe with different type of fronts or uh {disfmarker}User Interface: It's international, so we have to use a standard.Project Manager: Well, m has to be something {vocalsound} spectacular or uh one which makes it {disfmarker}Marketing: Well that's an idea of course, yeah.Project Manager: We gonna skip back to the goals probably. Uh,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: original, trendly, and user-friendly {disfmarker} Well, we al also already talked about user-friendliness.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: No, well something trendy and original, well that that goes hand in hand I guess. When something is original, it tends to be trendy, probably,Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: or we should make it combination of that.'Kay, so you {vocalsound} {disfmarker} the um technical part of the process is something you're gonna look after for, so you have to think about what kind of uh equipment you want to uh, you know, you want to manage with it. Well, and that's an important part for you then, with gogors regards to the user-friendly part of it.User Interface: Use friendly. Yep.Project Manager: Well, and you uh should look out for what makes it trendy. {vocalsound} Well, you know, y like some special feature. Or some {disfmarker} {gap} Does it does it gets some gadgetness or something.Marketing: Yeah. Yes, what the market wishes.Project Manager: Okay. Well, the closing. Next meeting starts in thirty minutes. Individual, I think so. The the Industrial Designer will w or the working design, of course, we will uh {disfmarker} Already s said that. The User Interface Designer {vocalsound} {disfmarker} is it a User Inter User Interface {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Interface dMarketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: the technical functions design. And the Management Expert of uh {disfmarker} the Marketing Expert. User requirements specifi Well, this one was already clear to us. Specific instructions will be sent not like the button to enter text on top of the remote control and the button to um, yeah, to minimise it to this this {vocalsound} {disfmarker} or whatever o o other functions {vocalsound} totally somewhere else.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah.Marketing: I think we should group them.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And same for the for the volume buttons and the the tProject Manager: And uh, is it gonna be a remote control that's um {disfmarker} what it can be used for different kind of equipment, like your T_V_ and your home stereoMarketing: Well I was I was thinking uh since a T_V_ is uh mostly used together with a V_C_R_ or D_V_D_ player or recorder, and not with a stereo, I think it should be good to include functions for V_C_R_s and D_V_D_ players, recorders.Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But uh, the D_V_D_ players and home cinema sets often double as stereo hi-fi sets probably.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: It's what, from my experience.User Interface: But isn't it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: I don't know. Hi-fi set is uh not often used uh as I know of in combination with television.Project Manager: Okay. But we gonna {disfmarker}User Interface: It's only for television, I thought. Not {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes.Project Manager: Oh, it is only for televisUser Interface: {gap} I thought it was only for television. So so we probably don't have to have to uh have the functions for D_V_D_ player or V_C_R_.Marketing: Yes, it is only for television, but uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: So wha what {disfmarker} What wha {vocalsound} what uh what document {disfmarker}Marketing: Well {disfmarker} well we we're gonna brainstorm about that. If we think it's useful, we do it.Project Manager: But, where where did it uh {disfmarker} Where did you find thatUser Interface: Uh, in the email.Project Manager: Oh, okay.User

Summarize the whole meeting.

This is a kick-off meeting for a new remote control project for television sets. Project Manager started it with a review of project objectives and then the team got acquainted with each other and tools. Through discussion, the team decided to design a remote control with grouped buttons, useful with DVD players and carrying some special features to be confirmed.

you say that we we shouldn't {disfmarker} we shouldn't go up to twelve point five Euro per unitMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Euros. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: so how many units should we sell to have a {disfmarker}User Interface: Well. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well each unit is is sell uh twenty five Euros.Industrial Designer: Yeah but how many {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: How muc how much do you get {disfmarker} how much do you {disfmarker} if you buy one million units h no, one hundred thousand units.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Eh chips. We're gonna need chips right.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. How much will it cost for one hundred thousandIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Usually this is less tha at two dollars per chip.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Because we are {disfmarker}User Interface: So you have any idea for a powerful one that has uh good enough for do speech recognition.Industrial Designer: Yeah,User Interface: Yeah Okay.Industrial Designer: we can {disfmarker}User Interface: So.Project Manager: It seems that that we want to sell like four million units from the first meeting.User Interface: No it doesn't.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Okay. Four million. {gap}Project Manager: Okay. Maybe we can uh we can look at the new requirement I receive from the management board and discus discuss all function we want to have.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um I just had a question uh do you want to continue with your presentaMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah I I will continue.Industrial Designer: Is it {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well ask your question if you want.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um you say that I don't remember by heart but thirty per centMarketing: MmIndustrial Designer: of the tested people say that's it's quite difficult to to to use the remote control.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Do they say that this is difficult but for the same reason or do they have other reason To Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and if they mm pay more for speech recognition in remote controlProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and you can go {vocalsound} we have here the results ofUser Interface: The first question.Marketing: of the questions. So you know that umProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} for the younger it's very importantProject Manager: To have L_C_D_ and voice.Marketing: to have the s yes and speech recognition. And uh and the others is not so important but uh we know that uh uh people between fifteen and twenty five are people who watch a lot T_V_ and uh who who wh can use a lot this uh.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So maybe we we can have a speech recognition in.Project Manager: Yeah maybe this this is important.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Moreover th maybe those uh like those teenager customer could advice their parents to buy this equipment and so we can {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: we have to take care of that point of view I think or so.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Okay and if there is th the conclusion now. So as we say before, I think uh um a remote control lightening in the dark it's it's a good thing.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Uh not to many mud buttons like we we said before,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: e easy to use uh a way to find it easily in the room and uh uh resistant to to shock and to to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} An I s no, yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay these are the user requiMarketing: {vocalsound} I dunno if you see something else important or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm just thinking of some thing.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} We want to have a {disfmarker} no, I don't know if this is a good idea. We want to we have to decide uh so it should be lightening in the dark I think because most people lost their remote control.Industrial Designer:'S quite {disfmarker} it's quite easy we do that w with back light on the {disfmarker} on the wheel.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. Even if i L_E_D_ uh or a if if it's the L_C_D_ feature uhIndustrial Designer: A blue {disfmarker} a blue L_E_D_ and we sell that um.Project Manager: Yeah,User Interface: whatever, yeah.Project Manager: and do we put an L_C_D_ displayMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Because it was important for young customers if you remember.User Interface: {vocalsound} I think it's only put on if cou have multi function. If you do not multi function then there is no p point in having L_C_D_.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Just increase the cost.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} The user does not have an advantage really.Project Manager: So no L_C_D_Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: And so no speech as well because it w it would delay too much the development processUser Interface: Well if it's going to delay yeahIndustrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: but uh {vocalsound} it will be cool. It would. Because a user could say C_N_N_ for example and it would go C_N_N_. Mm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah. That would be cool. But eight months is really longUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: and {disfmarker} Maybe we can just uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Ten years {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So um I I will uh {disfmarker} I will {disfmarker} so I we will move to next meeting so in {disfmarker} after the lunch break uh here are the individual uh action uh you are required to doIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: but you will be uh recalled to the actions by uh email I think but you can take notes Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Well if it is going to be just a T_V_ remote control it is going to be very simple.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah okay. So yeah the key point here is simple. Maybe. {vocalsound} So few buttons, channel, volume control and what el what function do you see in addition to thatUser Interface: Well if it's going to be as simple as possible then just have the remote control, there is no other function that I can seeProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: really.Project Manager: Maybe switch T_V_ on and off {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} UhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: no you want to keep television on so that the advertising can {disfmarker} revenue can come back to us.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: Or something.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Volume, maybe a mute button, and then on off button.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And that's allIndustrial Designer: Uh I know that som you say that many people are doing plenty of {disfmarker} a lot of zapping.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I know tha I discovered that when I did a quick look, uh they do now som they do something which is quite nice now,User Interface: It's a memory, yeah.Industrial Designer: you have a button, you you press it, and this is uh the previous channel which has come back.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah this is cool. Maybe we can include that also. Previous previous channel button. So we have like channel button, the previous channel button, the volume button, plus a mute button, and uh just the the traditional on off button.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh and of course the channel changing buttons.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. I I talk about that, yeahUser Interface: How should they how should we implement that Because uh could be numerical how to use a new remote control.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: So they want something s really very simple and uh easy to use.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And uh remote controls are bad forProject Manager: What is her other sideMarketing: R_S_I_ {vocalsound} um {disfmarker}User Interface: Other side yeah, yo wa your wristMarketing: I dunno.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: It i can become painful you can have tendonditis.Project Manager: Oh yeahUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: I did not knew that.User Interface: If you also {gap} up on a computer in a strange position.Project Manager: Okay so you {disfmarker} we have to make it uh more ergonomic yeah.User Interface: Ergonomic. But uh {vocalsound}.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Have to say ha ha. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's your job {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh.Project Manager: Uh sorry {vocalsound} got a message from Microsoft. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay um before that I I have some some {vocalsound} some thing {vocalsound} uh to say before um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} We know that uh the user use uh a lot their um remote control um to to change channel.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um to to change uh volume selection of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and uh and not uh a lot for setting {disfmarker} for setting the the channels and uh thing things like that.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So it's better to put uh uh uh something very easy to set and uh and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. This function should be very uh accessible.Marketing: Very accessible yes.Project Manager: Yeah, okay. This is the main function okay.Marketing: That's right. {vocalsound} So then we asked some questions to themProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and um we asked this question if they prefer an L_C_D_ screen or on their remultific function remotes controlProject

Summarize the discussion about Marketing's presentation on user requirement.

Marketing mainly focused on users'frustrations and expectations for remote controls. Apart from the requirements for a fancier look, shock-resistance, and limited but usable buttons, other expectations were also raised by users, such as the need to be found, to easily use, to light in the dark, and the need of ergonomic design. Moreover, LCD and speech recognition also seemed important, especially for people between 15 and 25 who watched TV a lot. Last but not least, the previous plan for a generic remote control for everything failed due to the imbalance between the long developing time and the timely need to be on the market.

you say that we we shouldn't {disfmarker} we shouldn't go up to twelve point five Euro per unitMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Euros. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: so how many units should we sell to have a {disfmarker}User Interface: Well. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well each unit is is sell uh twenty five Euros.Industrial Designer: Yeah but how many {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: How muc how much do you get {disfmarker} how much do you {disfmarker} if you buy one million units h no, one hundred thousand units.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Eh chips. We're gonna need chips right.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. How much will it cost for one hundred thousandIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Usually this is less tha at two dollars per chip.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Because we are {disfmarker}User Interface: So you have any idea for a powerful one that has uh good enough for do speech recognition.Industrial Designer: Yeah,User Interface: Yeah Okay.Industrial Designer: we can {disfmarker}User Interface: So.Project Manager: It seems that that we want to sell like four million units from the first meeting.User Interface: No it doesn't.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Okay. Four million. {gap}Project Manager: Okay. Maybe we can uh we can look at the new requirement I receive from the management board and discus discuss all function we want to have.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um I just had a question uh do you want to continue with your presentaMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah I I will continue.Industrial Designer: Is it {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well ask your question if you want.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um you say that I don't remember by heart but thirty per centMarketing: MmIndustrial Designer: of the tested people say that's it's quite difficult to to to use the remote control.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Do they say that this is difficult but for the same reason or do they have other reason To Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and if they mm pay more for speech recognition in remote controlProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and you can go {vocalsound} we have here the results ofUser Interface: The first question.Marketing: of the questions. So you know that umProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} for the younger it's very importantProject Manager: To have L_C_D_ and voice.Marketing: to have the s yes and speech recognition. And uh and the others is not so important but uh we know that uh uh people between fifteen and twenty five are people who watch a lot T_V_ and uh who who wh can use a lot this uh.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So maybe we we can have a speech recognition in.Project Manager: Yeah maybe this this is important.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Moreover th maybe those uh like those teenager customer could advice their parents to buy this equipment and so we can {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: we have to take care of that point of view I think or so.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Okay and if there is th the conclusion now. So as we say before, I think uh um a remote control lightening in the dark it's it's a good thing.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Uh not to many mud buttons like we we said before,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: e easy to use uh a way to find it easily in the room and uh uh resistant to to shock and to to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} An I s no, yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay these are the user requiMarketing: {vocalsound} I dunno if you see something else important or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm just thinking of some thing.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} We want to have a {disfmarker} no, I don't know if this is a good idea. We want to consist of two parts. {vocalsound} One is the voice command part and on one is the actual buttons part. {vocalsound} Uh and th the buttons part would be uh a set of buttons for choosing devices, a set of buttons for special navigation in space,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: a set of buttons for {vocalsound} linear access of medium and a set of buttons for random access.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: YeahIndustrial Designer: What do you mean by linear access thenUser Interface: Like a video tape goes forward, backwards, uh fast and stuff yeah.Industrial Designer: Ah.Project Manager: Okay so special navigation, linear access, random accessUser Interface: Um.Project Manager: and there's a fourth one noUser Interface: MmProject Manager: So the better now for special navigationUser Interface: Yeah. For special navigation for example you might have a T_V_ in the menu and you going to change yeahProject Manager: Okay. Then linear accessUser Interface: Uh.Project Manager: then random access.User Interface: Mm. Yeah and also parameter changing.Project Manager: Ah yeah parameter okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} So if there are common parameters maybe we should put special buttons for that umProject Manager: Okay.User Interface: or maybe we could have everything uh generic but uh there are a lot of uh remotes on the market right now and {vocalsound} basically this is most of the {disfmarker} almost everybody has this stuff.Project Manager: Okay. Okay and and voice command did you uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Voice command w we could specify anything. We could assign any button {disfmarker} a command to any button, if we have enough processing power,Project Manager: Okay. Okay.User Interface: I guess so. {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So that's uh that close your investigationsUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Uh yeah I think so.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Not so far.Project Manager: Maybe we can only or could be also incremental.Project Manager: Yeah. Incremental definitely because zapping you you switch them.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Let's say that we can do something like that. This is uh incremental, but once you press it for a long time, you go five by five.Project Manager: We go fasterIndustrial Designer: To go fa to go faster.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Mm. It's an interesting idea, that if you press it for a long time it does something else, in general. So if you you have your ten buttons for the {disfmarker} for the numeric the numerical buttons and you have {disfmarker} instead of having just one memoryIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: you have if you press them for a long time {disfmarker} No. Doesn't work {vocalsound} does it.Project Manager: Maybe we should have also a digit button {disfmarker}User Interface: Maybe we should have a complete keyboard and just type console commands.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Change channel to eight.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Maybe we have also to have digits or only incremental.User Interface: No. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno bec because if you have the {disfmarker}User Interface: Well if it's useful like if if you want to change between three channels for example then you h you cannot {disfmarker} you cannot cannot work with just memory being incremental.Project Manager: Uh. Yeah. Because you have your previous channel button if you have incremental only it's not uh it isn't worth it because the previous channel is eith either minus one or plus one.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So I think we need also digits.User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Maybe we we can make very obvious the channel and volume button button and smaller button down there with the the digits.User Interface: Yeah when we have to decide uh so it should be lightening in the dark I think because most people lost their remote control.Industrial Designer:'S quite {disfmarker} it's quite easy we do that w with back light on the {disfmarker} on the wheel.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. Even if i L_E_D_ uh or a if if it's the L_C_D_ feature uhIndustrial Designer: A blue {disfmarker} a blue L_E_D_ and we sell that um.Project Manager: Yeah,User Interface: whatever, yeah.Project Manager: and do we put an L_C_D_ displayMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Because it was important for young customers if you remember.User Interface: {vocalsound} I think it's only put on if cou have multi function. If you do not multi function then there is no p point in having L_C_D_.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Just increase the cost.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} The user does not have an advantage really.Project Manager: So no L_C_D_Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: And so no speech as well because it w it would delay too much the development processUser Interface: Well if it's going to delay yeahIndustrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: but uh {vocalsound} it will be cool. It would. Because a user could say C_N_N_ for example and it would go C_N_N_. Mm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah. That would be cool. But eight months is really longUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: and {disfmarker} Maybe we can just uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Ten years {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So um I I will uh {disfmarker} I will {disfmarker} so I we will move to next meeting so in {disfmarker} after the lunch break uh here are the individual uh action uh you are required to doIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: but you will be uh recalled to the actions by uh email I think but you can take notes

What did User Interface think of the ergonomic need for remote controls when discussing the user requirement

User Interface agreed with Marketing's proposal of more ergonomic design and mentioned that a strange position of using computers might well end in tendonitis and hurt one's wrist.

Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and if they mm pay more for speech recognition in remote controlProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and you can go {vocalsound} we have here the results ofUser Interface: The first question.Marketing: of the questions. So you know that umProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} for the younger it's very importantProject Manager: To have L_C_D_ and voice.Marketing: to have the s yes and speech recognition. And uh and the others is not so important but uh we know that uh uh people between fifteen and twenty five are people who watch a lot T_V_ and uh who who wh can use a lot this uh.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So maybe we we can have a speech recognition in.Project Manager: Yeah maybe this this is important.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Moreover th maybe those uh like those teenager customer could advice their parents to buy this equipment and so we can {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: we have to take care of that point of view I think or so.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Okay and if there is th the conclusion now. So as we say before, I think uh um a remote control lightening in the dark it's it's a good thing.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Uh not to many mud buttons like we we said before,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: e easy to use uh a way to find it easily in the room and uh uh resistant to to shock and to to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} An I s no, yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay these are the user requiMarketing: {vocalsound} I dunno if you see something else important or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm just thinking of some thing.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} We want to have a {disfmarker} no, I don't know if this is a good idea. We want to you say that we we shouldn't {disfmarker} we shouldn't go up to twelve point five Euro per unitMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Euros. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: so how many units should we sell to have a {disfmarker}User Interface: Well. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well each unit is is sell uh twenty five Euros.Industrial Designer: Yeah but how many {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: How muc how much do you get {disfmarker} how much do you {disfmarker} if you buy one million units h no, one hundred thousand units.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Eh chips. We're gonna need chips right.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. How much will it cost for one hundred thousandIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Usually this is less tha at two dollars per chip.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Because we are {disfmarker}User Interface: So you have any idea for a powerful one that has uh good enough for do speech recognition.Industrial Designer: Yeah,User Interface: Yeah Okay.Industrial Designer: we can {disfmarker}User Interface: So.Project Manager: It seems that that we want to sell like four million units from the first meeting.User Interface: No it doesn't.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Okay. Four million. {gap}Project Manager: Okay. Maybe we can uh we can look at the new requirement I receive from the management board and discus discuss all function we want to have.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um I just had a question uh do you want to continue with your presentaMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah I I will continue.Industrial Designer: Is it {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well ask your question if you want.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um you say that I don't remember by heart but thirty per centMarketing: MmIndustrial Designer: of the tested people say that's it's quite difficult to to to use the remote control.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Do they say that this is difficult but for the same reason or do they have other reason To consist of two parts. {vocalsound} One is the voice command part and on one is the actual buttons part. {vocalsound} Uh and th the buttons part would be uh a set of buttons for choosing devices, a set of buttons for special navigation in space,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: a set of buttons for {vocalsound} linear access of medium and a set of buttons for random access.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: YeahIndustrial Designer: What do you mean by linear access thenUser Interface: Like a video tape goes forward, backwards, uh fast and stuff yeah.Industrial Designer: Ah.Project Manager: Okay so special navigation, linear access, random accessUser Interface: Um.Project Manager: and there's a fourth one noUser Interface: MmProject Manager: So the better now for special navigationUser Interface: Yeah. For special navigation for example you might have a T_V_ in the menu and you going to change yeahProject Manager: Okay. Then linear accessUser Interface: Uh.Project Manager: then random access.User Interface: Mm. Yeah and also parameter changing.Project Manager: Ah yeah parameter okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} So if there are common parameters maybe we should put special buttons for that umProject Manager: Okay.User Interface: or maybe we could have everything uh generic but uh there are a lot of uh remotes on the market right now and {vocalsound} basically this is most of the {disfmarker} almost everybody has this stuff.Project Manager: Okay. Okay and and voice command did you uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Voice command w we could specify anything. We could assign any button {disfmarker} a command to any button, if we have enough processing power,Project Manager: Okay. Okay.User Interface: I guess so. {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So that's uh that close your investigationsUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Uh yeah I think so.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Not so far.Project Manager: Maybe we can how to use a new remote control.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: So they want something s really very simple and uh easy to use.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And uh remote controls are bad forProject Manager: What is her other sideMarketing: R_S_I_ {vocalsound} um {disfmarker}User Interface: Other side yeah, yo wa your wristMarketing: I dunno.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: It i can become painful you can have tendonditis.Project Manager: Oh yeahUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: I did not knew that.User Interface: If you also {gap} up on a computer in a strange position.Project Manager: Okay so you {disfmarker} we have to make it uh more ergonomic yeah.User Interface: Ergonomic. But uh {vocalsound}.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Have to say ha ha. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's your job {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh.Project Manager: Uh sorry {vocalsound} got a message from Microsoft. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay um before that I I have some some {vocalsound} some thing {vocalsound} uh to say before um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} We know that uh the user use uh a lot their um remote control um to to change channel.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um to to change uh volume selection of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and uh and not uh a lot for setting {disfmarker} for setting the the channels and uh thing things like that.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So it's better to put uh uh uh something very easy to set and uh and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. This function should be very uh accessible.Marketing: Very accessible yes.Project Manager: Yeah, okay. This is the main function okay.Marketing: That's right. {vocalsound} So then we asked some questions to themProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and um we asked this question if they prefer an L_C_D_ screen or on their remultific function remotes controlProject only or could be also incremental.Project Manager: Yeah. Incremental definitely because zapping you you switch them.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Let's say that we can do something like that. This is uh incremental, but once you press it for a long time, you go five by five.Project Manager: We go fasterIndustrial Designer: To go fa to go faster.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Mm. It's an interesting idea, that if you press it for a long time it does something else, in general. So if you you have your ten buttons for the {disfmarker} for the numeric the numerical buttons and you have {disfmarker} instead of having just one memoryIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: you have if you press them for a long time {disfmarker} No. Doesn't work {vocalsound} does it.Project Manager: Maybe we should have also a digit button {disfmarker}User Interface: Maybe we should have a complete keyboard and just type console commands.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Change channel to eight.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Maybe we have also to have digits or only incremental.User Interface: No. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno bec because if you have the {disfmarker}User Interface: Well if it's useful like if if you want to change between three channels for example then you h you cannot {disfmarker} you cannot cannot work with just memory being incremental.Project Manager: Uh. Yeah. Because you have your previous channel button if you have incremental only it's not uh it isn't worth it because the previous channel is eith either minus one or plus one.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So I think we need also digits.User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Maybe we we can make very obvious the channel and volume button button and smaller button down there with the the digits.User Interface: Yeah when

Why did Project Manager decide to cancel the previous plan for a generic remote control when discussing the user requirement

Considering the message from the management board, Project Manager emphasized the marketing competitiveness of remote controls over the costly and time-consuming need for making a generic remote control for everything. Therefore, the plan for a generic one was cancelled.

you say that we we shouldn't {disfmarker} we shouldn't go up to twelve point five Euro per unitMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Euros. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: so how many units should we sell to have a {disfmarker}User Interface: Well. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well each unit is is sell uh twenty five Euros.Industrial Designer: Yeah but how many {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: How muc how much do you get {disfmarker} how much do you {disfmarker} if you buy one million units h no, one hundred thousand units.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Eh chips. We're gonna need chips right.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. How much will it cost for one hundred thousandIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Usually this is less tha at two dollars per chip.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Because we are {disfmarker}User Interface: So you have any idea for a powerful one that has uh good enough for do speech recognition.Industrial Designer: Yeah,User Interface: Yeah Okay.Industrial Designer: we can {disfmarker}User Interface: So.Project Manager: It seems that that we want to sell like four million units from the first meeting.User Interface: No it doesn't.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Okay. Four million. {gap}Project Manager: Okay. Maybe we can uh we can look at the new requirement I receive from the management board and discus discuss all function we want to have.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um I just had a question uh do you want to continue with your presentaMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah I I will continue.Industrial Designer: Is it {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well ask your question if you want.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um you say that I don't remember by heart but thirty per centMarketing: MmIndustrial Designer: of the tested people say that's it's quite difficult to to to use the remote control.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Do they say that this is difficult but for the same reason or do they have other reason To Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and if they mm pay more for speech recognition in remote controlProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and you can go {vocalsound} we have here the results ofUser Interface: The first question.Marketing: of the questions. So you know that umProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} for the younger it's very importantProject Manager: To have L_C_D_ and voice.Marketing: to have the s yes and speech recognition. And uh and the others is not so important but uh we know that uh uh people between fifteen and twenty five are people who watch a lot T_V_ and uh who who wh can use a lot this uh.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So maybe we we can have a speech recognition in.Project Manager: Yeah maybe this this is important.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Moreover th maybe those uh like those teenager customer could advice their parents to buy this equipment and so we can {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: we have to take care of that point of view I think or so.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Okay and if there is th the conclusion now. So as we say before, I think uh um a remote control lightening in the dark it's it's a good thing.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Uh not to many mud buttons like we we said before,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: e easy to use uh a way to find it easily in the room and uh uh resistant to to shock and to to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} An I s no, yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay these are the user requiMarketing: {vocalsound} I dunno if you see something else important or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm just thinking of some thing.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} We want to have a {disfmarker} no, I don't know if this is a good idea. We want to we have to decide uh so it should be lightening in the dark I think because most people lost their remote control.Industrial Designer:'S quite {disfmarker} it's quite easy we do that w with back light on the {disfmarker} on the wheel.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. Even if i L_E_D_ uh or a if if it's the L_C_D_ feature uhIndustrial Designer: A blue {disfmarker} a blue L_E_D_ and we sell that um.Project Manager: Yeah,User Interface: whatever, yeah.Project Manager: and do we put an L_C_D_ displayMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Because it was important for young customers if you remember.User Interface: {vocalsound} I think it's only put on if cou have multi function. If you do not multi function then there is no p point in having L_C_D_.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Just increase the cost.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} The user does not have an advantage really.Project Manager: So no L_C_D_Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: And so no speech as well because it w it would delay too much the development processUser Interface: Well if it's going to delay yeahIndustrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: but uh {vocalsound} it will be cool. It would. Because a user could say C_N_N_ for example and it would go C_N_N_. Mm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah. That would be cool. But eight months is really longUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: and {disfmarker} Maybe we can just uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Ten years {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So um I I will uh {disfmarker} I will {disfmarker} so I we will move to next meeting so in {disfmarker} after the lunch break uh here are the individual uh action uh you are required to doIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: but you will be uh recalled to the actions by uh email I think but you can take notes Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Well if it is going to be just a T_V_ remote control it is going to be very simple.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah okay. So yeah the key point here is simple. Maybe. {vocalsound} So few buttons, channel, volume control and what el what function do you see in addition to thatUser Interface: Well if it's going to be as simple as possible then just have the remote control, there is no other function that I can seeProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: really.Project Manager: Maybe switch T_V_ on and off {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} UhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: no you want to keep television on so that the advertising can {disfmarker} revenue can come back to us.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: Or something.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Volume, maybe a mute button, and then on off button.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And that's allIndustrial Designer: Uh I know that som you say that many people are doing plenty of {disfmarker} a lot of zapping.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I know tha I discovered that when I did a quick look, uh they do now som they do something which is quite nice now,User Interface: It's a memory, yeah.Industrial Designer: you have a button, you you press it, and this is uh the previous channel which has come back.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah this is cool. Maybe we can include that also. Previous previous channel button. So we have like channel button, the previous channel button, the volume button, plus a mute button, and uh just the the traditional on off button.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh and of course the channel changing buttons.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. I I talk about that, yeahUser Interface: How should they how should we implement that Because uh could be numerical how to use a new remote control.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: So they want something s really very simple and uh easy to use.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And uh remote controls are bad forProject Manager: What is her other sideMarketing: R_S_I_ {vocalsound} um {disfmarker}User Interface: Other side yeah, yo wa your wristMarketing: I dunno.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: It i can become painful you can have tendonditis.Project Manager: Oh yeahUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: I did not knew that.User Interface: If you also {gap} up on a computer in a strange position.Project Manager: Okay so you {disfmarker} we have to make it uh more ergonomic yeah.User Interface: Ergonomic. But uh {vocalsound}.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Have to say ha ha. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's your job {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh.Project Manager: Uh sorry {vocalsound} got a message from Microsoft. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay um before that I I have some some {vocalsound} some thing {vocalsound} uh to say before um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} We know that uh the user use uh a lot their um remote control um to to change channel.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um to to change uh volume selection of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and uh and not uh a lot for setting {disfmarker} for setting the the channels and uh thing things like that.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So it's better to put uh uh uh something very easy to set and uh and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. This function should be very uh accessible.Marketing: Very accessible yes.Project Manager: Yeah, okay. This is the main function okay.Marketing: That's right. {vocalsound} So then we asked some questions to themProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and um we asked this question if they prefer an L_C_D_ screen or on their remultific function remotes controlProject

Summarize the discussion about Industrial Designer's presentation on technical design.

Industrial Designer first briefly described the components of the remote control, including a battery power supply, a user interface, an array of push buttons or a LCD, an electronic chip, an infrared component, and a UC as the central unit. Subsequent to the brief description, Industrial Designer pointed out the eight-month-long time problem for designing speech recognition, while the designing time for the standard one button was only one month. Moreover, Industrial Designer proposed the idea of configuring remote controls for the expert users and could better fit the market.

you say that we we shouldn't {disfmarker} we shouldn't go up to twelve point five Euro per unitMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Euros. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: so how many units should we sell to have a {disfmarker}User Interface: Well. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well each unit is is sell uh twenty five Euros.Industrial Designer: Yeah but how many {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: How muc how much do you get {disfmarker} how much do you {disfmarker} if you buy one million units h no, one hundred thousand units.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Eh chips. We're gonna need chips right.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. How much will it cost for one hundred thousandIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Usually this is less tha at two dollars per chip.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Because we are {disfmarker}User Interface: So you have any idea for a powerful one that has uh good enough for do speech recognition.Industrial Designer: Yeah,User Interface: Yeah Okay.Industrial Designer: we can {disfmarker}User Interface: So.Project Manager: It seems that that we want to sell like four million units from the first meeting.User Interface: No it doesn't.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Okay. Four million. {gap}Project Manager: Okay. Maybe we can uh we can look at the new requirement I receive from the management board and discus discuss all function we want to have.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um I just had a question uh do you want to continue with your presentaMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah I I will continue.Industrial Designer: Is it {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well ask your question if you want.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um you say that I don't remember by heart but thirty per centMarketing: MmIndustrial Designer: of the tested people say that's it's quite difficult to to to use the remote control.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Do they say that this is difficult but for the same reason or do they have other reason To Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and if they mm pay more for speech recognition in remote controlProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and you can go {vocalsound} we have here the results ofUser Interface: The first question.Marketing: of the questions. So you know that umProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} for the younger it's very importantProject Manager: To have L_C_D_ and voice.Marketing: to have the s yes and speech recognition. And uh and the others is not so important but uh we know that uh uh people between fifteen and twenty five are people who watch a lot T_V_ and uh who who wh can use a lot this uh.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So maybe we we can have a speech recognition in.Project Manager: Yeah maybe this this is important.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Moreover th maybe those uh like those teenager customer could advice their parents to buy this equipment and so we can {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: we have to take care of that point of view I think or so.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Okay and if there is th the conclusion now. So as we say before, I think uh um a remote control lightening in the dark it's it's a good thing.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Uh not to many mud buttons like we we said before,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: e easy to use uh a way to find it easily in the room and uh uh resistant to to shock and to to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} An I s no, yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay these are the user requiMarketing: {vocalsound} I dunno if you see something else important or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm just thinking of some thing.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} We want to have a {disfmarker} no, I don't know if this is a good idea. We want to consist of two parts. {vocalsound} One is the voice command part and on one is the actual buttons part. {vocalsound} Uh and th the buttons part would be uh a set of buttons for choosing devices, a set of buttons for special navigation in space,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: a set of buttons for {vocalsound} linear access of medium and a set of buttons for random access.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: YeahIndustrial Designer: What do you mean by linear access thenUser Interface: Like a video tape goes forward, backwards, uh fast and stuff yeah.Industrial Designer: Ah.Project Manager: Okay so special navigation, linear access, random accessUser Interface: Um.Project Manager: and there's a fourth one noUser Interface: MmProject Manager: So the better now for special navigationUser Interface: Yeah. For special navigation for example you might have a T_V_ in the menu and you going to change yeahProject Manager: Okay. Then linear accessUser Interface: Uh.Project Manager: then random access.User Interface: Mm. Yeah and also parameter changing.Project Manager: Ah yeah parameter okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} So if there are common parameters maybe we should put special buttons for that umProject Manager: Okay.User Interface: or maybe we could have everything uh generic but uh there are a lot of uh remotes on the market right now and {vocalsound} basically this is most of the {disfmarker} almost everybody has this stuff.Project Manager: Okay. Okay and and voice command did you uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Voice command w we could specify anything. We could assign any button {disfmarker} a command to any button, if we have enough processing power,Project Manager: Okay. Okay.User Interface: I guess so. {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So that's uh that close your investigationsUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Uh yeah I think so.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Not so far.Project Manager: Maybe we can only or could be also incremental.Project Manager: Yeah. Incremental definitely because zapping you you switch them.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Let's say that we can do something like that. This is uh incremental, but once you press it for a long time, you go five by five.Project Manager: We go fasterIndustrial Designer: To go fa to go faster.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Mm. It's an interesting idea, that if you press it for a long time it does something else, in general. So if you you have your ten buttons for the {disfmarker} for the numeric the numerical buttons and you have {disfmarker} instead of having just one memoryIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: you have if you press them for a long time {disfmarker} No. Doesn't work {vocalsound} does it.Project Manager: Maybe we should have also a digit button {disfmarker}User Interface: Maybe we should have a complete keyboard and just type console commands.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Change channel to eight.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Maybe we have also to have digits or only incremental.User Interface: No. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno bec because if you have the {disfmarker}User Interface: Well if it's useful like if if you want to change between three channels for example then you h you cannot {disfmarker} you cannot cannot work with just memory being incremental.Project Manager: Uh. Yeah. Because you have your previous channel button if you have incremental only it's not uh it isn't worth it because the previous channel is eith either minus one or plus one.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So I think we need also digits.User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Maybe we we can make very obvious the channel and volume button button and smaller button down there with the the digits.User Interface: Yeah when to {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh.Industrial Designer: maybe to keep in mind maybe to access to that menu you should do something like that.Marketing: Would j Uh {vocalsound} yeah w I I think they they say that it's uh difficult to learn how to use it but i when you know how to use it, it's it's okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay. It's not intuitive first.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker}Marketing: But {disfmarker} Yeah.Industrial Designer: But yeah maybe and what about if we design a remote control which can be configure as you want You say that I want, I have six button {disfmarker}User Interface: Mh-hmm. A a lot of people are uh {disfmarker} if you have the L_C_D_ screen if you can do it completely the way you want because the buttons also look the way you want themIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah. But, but also it seems that {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: but it will be hard to configure I mean imagine i uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: so it's really something for the expert user. So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: I mean there are markets and markets. I think the young people are th uh are uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Christine here said uh you have a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} uh it is yeah. {vocalsound} So for our young people uh it will be cool, they can be able to use it. Th maybe their parents will not but they will configure it. I guess. I don't know if there is study about that.Project Manager: Yeah. Maybe it would be more complex to configure it to be simple {vocalsound} than creating a simple product.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: And there are {disfmarker} another thing is that if

What did User Interface think of the easy-to-learn design of remote controls when discussing the technical design

User Interface proposed a paradox here. On the one hand, being simple and easy to use might be achieved at the price of losing individuality; on the other hand, being individual unavoidably meant that everybody must learn to use it first.

you say that we we shouldn't {disfmarker} we shouldn't go up to twelve point five Euro per unitMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Euros. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: so how many units should we sell to have a {disfmarker}User Interface: Well. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well each unit is is sell uh twenty five Euros.Industrial Designer: Yeah but how many {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: How muc how much do you get {disfmarker} how much do you {disfmarker} if you buy one million units h no, one hundred thousand units.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Eh chips. We're gonna need chips right.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. How much will it cost for one hundred thousandIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Usually this is less tha at two dollars per chip.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Because we are {disfmarker}User Interface: So you have any idea for a powerful one that has uh good enough for do speech recognition.Industrial Designer: Yeah,User Interface: Yeah Okay.Industrial Designer: we can {disfmarker}User Interface: So.Project Manager: It seems that that we want to sell like four million units from the first meeting.User Interface: No it doesn't.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Okay. Four million. {gap}Project Manager: Okay. Maybe we can uh we can look at the new requirement I receive from the management board and discus discuss all function we want to have.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um I just had a question uh do you want to continue with your presentaMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah I I will continue.Industrial Designer: Is it {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well ask your question if you want.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um you say that I don't remember by heart but thirty per centMarketing: MmIndustrial Designer: of the tested people say that's it's quite difficult to to to use the remote control.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Do they say that this is difficult but for the same reason or do they have other reason To Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and if they mm pay more for speech recognition in remote controlProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and you can go {vocalsound} we have here the results ofUser Interface: The first question.Marketing: of the questions. So you know that umProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} for the younger it's very importantProject Manager: To have L_C_D_ and voice.Marketing: to have the s yes and speech recognition. And uh and the others is not so important but uh we know that uh uh people between fifteen and twenty five are people who watch a lot T_V_ and uh who who wh can use a lot this uh.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So maybe we we can have a speech recognition in.Project Manager: Yeah maybe this this is important.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Moreover th maybe those uh like those teenager customer could advice their parents to buy this equipment and so we can {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: we have to take care of that point of view I think or so.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Okay and if there is th the conclusion now. So as we say before, I think uh um a remote control lightening in the dark it's it's a good thing.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Uh not to many mud buttons like we we said before,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: e easy to use uh a way to find it easily in the room and uh uh resistant to to shock and to to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} An I s no, yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay these are the user requiMarketing: {vocalsound} I dunno if you see something else important or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm just thinking of some thing.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} We want to have a {disfmarker} no, I don't know if this is a good idea. We want to consist of two parts. {vocalsound} One is the voice command part and on one is the actual buttons part. {vocalsound} Uh and th the buttons part would be uh a set of buttons for choosing devices, a set of buttons for special navigation in space,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: a set of buttons for {vocalsound} linear access of medium and a set of buttons for random access.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: YeahIndustrial Designer: What do you mean by linear access thenUser Interface: Like a video tape goes forward, backwards, uh fast and stuff yeah.Industrial Designer: Ah.Project Manager: Okay so special navigation, linear access, random accessUser Interface: Um.Project Manager: and there's a fourth one noUser Interface: MmProject Manager: So the better now for special navigationUser Interface: Yeah. For special navigation for example you might have a T_V_ in the menu and you going to change yeahProject Manager: Okay. Then linear accessUser Interface: Uh.Project Manager: then random access.User Interface: Mm. Yeah and also parameter changing.Project Manager: Ah yeah parameter okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} So if there are common parameters maybe we should put special buttons for that umProject Manager: Okay.User Interface: or maybe we could have everything uh generic but uh there are a lot of uh remotes on the market right now and {vocalsound} basically this is most of the {disfmarker} almost everybody has this stuff.Project Manager: Okay. Okay and and voice command did you uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Voice command w we could specify anything. We could assign any button {disfmarker} a command to any button, if we have enough processing power,Project Manager: Okay. Okay.User Interface: I guess so. {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So that's uh that close your investigationsUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Uh yeah I think so.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Not so far.Project Manager: Maybe we can only or could be also incremental.Project Manager: Yeah. Incremental definitely because zapping you you switch them.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Let's say that we can do something like that. This is uh incremental, but once you press it for a long time, you go five by five.Project Manager: We go fasterIndustrial Designer: To go fa to go faster.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Mm. It's an interesting idea, that if you press it for a long time it does something else, in general. So if you you have your ten buttons for the {disfmarker} for the numeric the numerical buttons and you have {disfmarker} instead of having just one memoryIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: you have if you press them for a long time {disfmarker} No. Doesn't work {vocalsound} does it.Project Manager: Maybe we should have also a digit button {disfmarker}User Interface: Maybe we should have a complete keyboard and just type console commands.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Change channel to eight.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Maybe we have also to have digits or only incremental.User Interface: No. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno bec because if you have the {disfmarker}User Interface: Well if it's useful like if if you want to change between three channels for example then you h you cannot {disfmarker} you cannot cannot work with just memory being incremental.Project Manager: Uh. Yeah. Because you have your previous channel button if you have incremental only it's not uh it isn't worth it because the previous channel is eith either minus one or plus one.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So I think we need also digits.User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Maybe we we can make very obvious the channel and volume button button and smaller button down there with the the digits.User Interface: Yeah when to {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh.Industrial Designer: maybe to keep in mind maybe to access to that menu you should do something like that.Marketing: Would j Uh {vocalsound} yeah w I I think they they say that it's uh difficult to learn how to use it but i when you know how to use it, it's it's okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay. It's not intuitive first.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker}Marketing: But {disfmarker} Yeah.Industrial Designer: But yeah maybe and what about if we design a remote control which can be configure as you want You say that I want, I have six button {disfmarker}User Interface: Mh-hmm. A a lot of people are uh {disfmarker} if you have the L_C_D_ screen if you can do it completely the way you want because the buttons also look the way you want themIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah. But, but also it seems that {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: but it will be hard to configure I mean imagine i uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: so it's really something for the expert user. So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: I mean there are markets and markets. I think the young people are th uh are uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Christine here said uh you have a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} uh it is yeah. {vocalsound} So for our young people uh it will be cool, they can be able to use it. Th maybe their parents will not but they will configure it. I guess. I don't know if there is study about that.Project Manager: Yeah. Maybe it would be more complex to configure it to be simple {vocalsound} than creating a simple product.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: And there are {disfmarker} another thing is that if

What did Project Manager think as the main frustrations of designing the remote control when discussing the technical design

Project Manager considered easy-to-use and easy-to-find as the two main frustrations in designing remote controls. But at the same time, such frustrations may pronounce a serious competitive advantage for the project without making too complex stuff or using too much time to develop.

Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and if they mm pay more for speech recognition in remote controlProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and you can go {vocalsound} we have here the results ofUser Interface: The first question.Marketing: of the questions. So you know that umProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} for the younger it's very importantProject Manager: To have L_C_D_ and voice.Marketing: to have the s yes and speech recognition. And uh and the others is not so important but uh we know that uh uh people between fifteen and twenty five are people who watch a lot T_V_ and uh who who wh can use a lot this uh.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So maybe we we can have a speech recognition in.Project Manager: Yeah maybe this this is important.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Moreover th maybe those uh like those teenager customer could advice their parents to buy this equipment and so we can {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: we have to take care of that point of view I think or so.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Okay and if there is th the conclusion now. So as we say before, I think uh um a remote control lightening in the dark it's it's a good thing.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Uh not to many mud buttons like we we said before,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: e easy to use uh a way to find it easily in the room and uh uh resistant to to shock and to to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} An I s no, yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay these are the user requiMarketing: {vocalsound} I dunno if you see something else important or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm just thinking of some thing.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} We want to have a {disfmarker} no, I don't know if this is a good idea. We want to you say that we we shouldn't {disfmarker} we shouldn't go up to twelve point five Euro per unitMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Euros. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: so how many units should we sell to have a {disfmarker}User Interface: Well. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well each unit is is sell uh twenty five Euros.Industrial Designer: Yeah but how many {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: How muc how much do you get {disfmarker} how much do you {disfmarker} if you buy one million units h no, one hundred thousand units.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Eh chips. We're gonna need chips right.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. How much will it cost for one hundred thousandIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Usually this is less tha at two dollars per chip.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Because we are {disfmarker}User Interface: So you have any idea for a powerful one that has uh good enough for do speech recognition.Industrial Designer: Yeah,User Interface: Yeah Okay.Industrial Designer: we can {disfmarker}User Interface: So.Project Manager: It seems that that we want to sell like four million units from the first meeting.User Interface: No it doesn't.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Okay. Four million. {gap}Project Manager: Okay. Maybe we can uh we can look at the new requirement I receive from the management board and discus discuss all function we want to have.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Um I just had a question uh do you want to continue with your presentaMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah I I will continue.Industrial Designer: Is it {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well ask your question if you want.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um you say that I don't remember by heart but thirty per centMarketing: MmIndustrial Designer: of the tested people say that's it's quite difficult to to to use the remote control.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Do they say that this is difficult but for the same reason or do they have other reason To Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Well if it is going to be just a T_V_ remote control it is going to be very simple.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah okay. So yeah the key point here is simple. Maybe. {vocalsound} So few buttons, channel, volume control and what el what function do you see in addition to thatUser Interface: Well if it's going to be as simple as possible then just have the remote control, there is no other function that I can seeProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: really.Project Manager: Maybe switch T_V_ on and off {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} UhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: no you want to keep television on so that the advertising can {disfmarker} revenue can come back to us.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: Or something.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Volume, maybe a mute button, and then on off button.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And that's allIndustrial Designer: Uh I know that som you say that many people are doing plenty of {disfmarker} a lot of zapping.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I know tha I discovered that when I did a quick look, uh they do now som they do something which is quite nice now,User Interface: It's a memory, yeah.Industrial Designer: you have a button, you you press it, and this is uh the previous channel which has come back.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah this is cool. Maybe we can include that also. Previous previous channel button. So we have like channel button, the previous channel button, the volume button, plus a mute button, and uh just the the traditional on off button.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh and of course the channel changing buttons.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. I I talk about that, yeahUser Interface: How should they how should we implement that Because uh could be numerical to {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh.Industrial Designer: maybe to keep in mind maybe to access to that menu you should do something like that.Marketing: Would j Uh {vocalsound} yeah w I I think they they say that it's uh difficult to learn how to use it but i when you know how to use it, it's it's okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay. It's not intuitive first.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker}Marketing: But {disfmarker} Yeah.Industrial Designer: But yeah maybe and what about if we design a remote control which can be configure as you want You say that I want, I have six button {disfmarker}User Interface: Mh-hmm. A a lot of people are uh {disfmarker} if you have the L_C_D_ screen if you can do it completely the way you want because the buttons also look the way you want themIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah. But, but also it seems that {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: but it will be hard to configure I mean imagine i uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: so it's really something for the expert user. So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: I mean there are markets and markets. I think the young people are th uh are uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Christine here said uh you have a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} uh it is yeah. {vocalsound} So for our young people uh it will be cool, they can be able to use it. Th maybe their parents will not but they will configure it. I guess. I don't know if there is study about that.Project Manager: Yeah. Maybe it would be more complex to configure it to be simple {vocalsound} than creating a simple product.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: And there are {disfmarker} another thing is that if how to use a new remote control.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: So they want something s really very simple and uh easy to use.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: And uh remote controls are bad forProject Manager: What is her other sideMarketing: R_S_I_ {vocalsound} um {disfmarker}User Interface: Other side yeah, yo wa your wristMarketing: I dunno.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: It i can become painful you can have tendonditis.Project Manager: Oh yeahUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: I did not knew that.User Interface: If you also {gap} up on a computer in a strange position.Project Manager: Okay so you {disfmarker} we have to make it uh more ergonomic yeah.User Interface: Ergonomic. But uh {vocalsound}.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Have to say ha ha. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's your job {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh.Project Manager: Uh sorry {vocalsound} got a message from Microsoft. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay um before that I I have some some {vocalsound} some thing {vocalsound} uh to say before um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} We know that uh the user use uh a lot their um remote control um to to change channel.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um to to change uh volume selection of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and uh and not uh a lot for setting {disfmarker} for setting the the channels and uh thing things like that.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So it's better to put uh uh uh something very easy to set and uh and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. This function should be very uh accessible.Marketing: Very accessible yes.Project Manager: Yeah, okay. This is the main function okay.Marketing: That's right. {vocalsound} So then we asked some questions to themProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: and um we asked this question if they prefer an L_C_D_ screen or on their remultific function remotes controlProject

Summarize the whole meeting.

As an extension to the previous discussion, this meeting basically dealt with the functional design of the remote control, for which User Interface, Marketing and Industrial Design respectively gave presentations on user requirement specification, subjects'main frustrations and expectations for remote controls and technical design. Subsequent to individual presentations, Project Manager then presented the new requirements from the management board, based on which the decisions on the needed functions of the remote control were made and the pre-arrangement of the next meeting was subsequently told.

or five digits or is it {disfmarker} most of them longer orPhD C: Yeah.PhD D: Yeah for the Italian even seven digits y more or lessPhD C: It {disfmarker} it d Seven digits.PhD D: but sometime the sentence have only one digit and sometime uh like uh the number of uh credit cards, something like that.Professor B: Mm - hmm. Right, so between one and sixteen. See the {disfmarker} I mean the reason I'm asking is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is we have all these small differences and I don't know how seriously to take them, rightPhD C: Mm - hmmProfessor B: So uh i if {disfmarker} if you had uh just you know {disfmarker} to give an example, if you had uh um if you had a thousand words then uh a {disfmarker} a tenth of a percent would just be one word,PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: right So {disfmarker} so it wouldn't mean anything.PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: OhPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: um so um yeah it be kind of {disfmarker} I'd kind of like to know what the sizes of these test sets were actually.PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: The size that we havePhD C: We could {disfmarker} we could run {disfmarker} run some kind of significance testsProfessor B: Yeah since these {disfmarker} well also just to know the numbers,PhD C: orPhD D: Yeah.Professor B: right. So these {disfmarker} these are word error ratesPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: so this is on how many words.PhD C: Yep.PhD D: Yeah we have the result that the output of the HTKProfessor B: Yeah.PhD D: The number of {disfmarker} of sentences, no it's the number isn't.PhD C: Yeah sure {disfmarker} sure. Yeah sure.Professor B: Yeah so anyway if you could just mail out what those numbers are and then {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that Mm - hmm.Professor B: and {disfmarker} and uh so I think each one is four processors or something or {disfmarker} I don't know, eight hundred megahertz or something and there's four processors in a box and there's ten boxes and there's some kind of ti so if {disfmarker} you know he's got a lot of processing power and um we'd have to schedule it but if we have some big jobs and we wanna {disfmarker} wanna {disfmarker} wanna run them he's {disfmarker} he's offering it.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: So. It's uh when he was here eh uh he {disfmarker} he used i not only every machine here but every machine on campus as far as I could tell, so {disfmarker} so in some ways he just got his payback, but uh again I {disfmarker} I don't know if we'll end up with {disfmarker} if we're gonna be CPU limited on anything that we're doing in this groupPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but {disfmarker} but if {disfmarker} if we are that's an offer. OK well uh you guys doing great stuff so that's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that's really neat and uh we'll uh uh g don't think we need to uh um Oh well the other thing I guess that I will say is that uh the digits that we're gonna record momentarily is starting to get {disfmarker} are starting to get into a pretty good size collection and um in addition to the SpeechDat stuff we will have those to work with really pretty soon now so that's {disfmarker} that's another source of data. Um which is s under somewhat better control and that we can {disfmarker} we can make measurements of the room the {disfmarker} uh that {disfmarker} you know if we feel there's other measurements we don't have that we'd like to have we can make them and uh Dave and I were just talking about that a little while ago so uh that's another {disfmarker} another possibility for this {disfmarker} this kind of work.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: K, uh if nobody has anything else maybe we should go around do {disfmarker} do our digits {disfmarker} do our digits duty. OK. OK I'll start. Uh, let me say that again. OK. I guess we're done. you {disfmarker} you yellowed these out uh but uh uh Oh I see yeah that {disfmarker} that one you can't use because of the delay. Those look pretty good. Um let's see that one Well even the {disfmarker} just the {disfmarker} the second row doesn't look that bad right That's just uh yeahPhD C: Yep.Professor B: And {disfmarker} and that looks like an interesting one too.PhD D: Mmm yeah.Professor B: UhPhD C: Actually the {disfmarker} yeah the second line is uh pretty much like the first line in yellow except that we don't have this KLT on the first {disfmarker} on the left part of the diagram. We just have the features as they are.Professor B: Mm - hmm.PhD C: UmProfessor B: Yeah. Yeah so when we do this weighted measure we should compare the two cuz it might even come out better. And it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's a little {disfmarker} slightly simpler.PhD C: Mm - hmm. Yeah.Professor B: So {disfmarker} so there's {disfmarker} so I {disfmarker} I would put that one also as a {disfmarker} as a maybe. Uh and it {disfmarker} yeah and it's actually {vocalsound} does {disfmarker} does significantly better on the uh uh highly mismatched Italian, so s and little worse on the mis on the MM case, but uh Well yeah it's worse than a few thingsPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: so uh let's see how that c that c c see how that comes out on their {disfmarker} their measure and {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are we running this uh for TI - digits or uhPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: Now is TI di {disfmarker} is is that part of the result that they get for the uh development {disfmarker} th the results that they're supposed to get at the end of {disfmarker} end of the month, the TI - digits are there alsoPhD C: Yeah. Yeah. It's included, yeah.Professor B: Oh OK. OK. And see what else there is here. Um Oh I see {disfmarker} the one {disfmarker} I was looking down here at the {disfmarker} the o the row below the lower yellowed one. Uh that's uh that's with the reduced uh KLT size {disfmarker} reduced dimensionality.PhD C: Mm - hmm Yeah. Yeah.Professor B: What happens there is it's around the same and so you could reduce the dimension as you were saying before a bit perhaps.PhD C: Yeah, it's {disfmarker} it's significantly worse well but {disfmarker} Mm - hmm.Professor B: It's significantly worse {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's uh it's {disfmarker} it's mostly worse.PhD C: Exc - except for the HMPhD D: For many a mismatch it's worse.PhD C: butProfessor B: Yeah. But it is little. I mean not {disfmarker} not by a huge amount, I don't know. What are {disfmarker} what are the sizes of any of these sets, I {disfmarker} I'm {disfmarker} I'm sure you told me before, but I've forgotten. So {disfmarker} you know how many words are in uh one of these test setsPhD C: UhPhD D: I don't remember.Professor B: AboutPhD C: Um it's {disfmarker} it depends {disfmarker} well {disfmarker} the well matched is generally larger than the other sets and I think it's around two thousand or three thousand words perhaps, at least.PhD D: Ye But words {disfmarker} well word {disfmarker} I don't know.PhD C: Hmm The words, yeah. S sentences.PhD D: Sentences.PhD C: Some sets have five hundred sentences, so.PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: So the {disfmarker} so the sets {disfmarker} so the test sets are between five hundred and two thousand sentences, let's sayPhD C: Mmm.Professor B: and each sentence on the average has four C: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.Professor B: The fact that none of these are {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} you know, enormous is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is not too surprising {disfmarker} most improvements aren't enormous and {vocalsound} uhPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: some of them are but uh I mean you have something really really wrong {vocalsound} and you fix it {vocalsound} you can get big and really enormous improvementsPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} um Cuz our best improvements over the years that we've gotten from finding bugs, but Anyway OK well I {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker} I see where we are and everybody knows what they're doing and is there {disfmarker} is there anything else we should talk about or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} are we donePhD C: Mm - hmm. I think it's OK um. We so basically we will {disfmarker} I think we'll try to {disfmarker} to focus on these three architectures and {disfmarker} and perhaps I was thinking also a fourth one with just {disfmarker} just a single KLT because we did not really test that {disfmarker}Professor B: Uh - huh.PhD C: removing all these KLT's and putting one single KLT at the end.Professor B: Yeah, I mean that would be pretty low maintenance to try it.PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: Uh if you can fit it in.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: Oh I have {disfmarker} yeah I do have one other piece of information which uh I should tell people outside of this group too uh I don't know if we're gonna need it uh but uh Jeff up at the uh University of Washington has uh gotten a hold of a uh uh some kind of server farm of uh of ten uh uh multiprocessor uh IBM machines RS six thousandsPhD C:

Summarize the discussion on looking at feature streams

The team used OGI features that then passed through a contextualized KLT, an MLP, and a low-pass filter. The highly mismatched Italian part was still not working well. The team tried using silence detection to improve performance, but the results were not too promising.

or five digits or is it {disfmarker} most of them longer orPhD C: Yeah.PhD D: Yeah for the Italian even seven digits y more or lessPhD C: It {disfmarker} it d Seven digits.PhD D: but sometime the sentence have only one digit and sometime uh like uh the number of uh credit cards, something like that.Professor B: Mm - hmm. Right, so between one and sixteen. See the {disfmarker} I mean the reason I'm asking is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is we have all these small differences and I don't know how seriously to take them, rightPhD C: Mm - hmmProfessor B: So uh i if {disfmarker} if you had uh just you know {disfmarker} to give an example, if you had uh um if you had a thousand words then uh a {disfmarker} a tenth of a percent would just be one word,PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: right So {disfmarker} so it wouldn't mean anything.PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: OhPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: um so um yeah it be kind of {disfmarker} I'd kind of like to know what the sizes of these test sets were actually.PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: The size that we havePhD C: We could {disfmarker} we could run {disfmarker} run some kind of significance testsProfessor B: Yeah since these {disfmarker} well also just to know the numbers,PhD C: orPhD D: Yeah.Professor B: right. So these {disfmarker} these are word error ratesPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: so this is on how many words.PhD C: Yep.PhD D: Yeah we have the result that the output of the HTKProfessor B: Yeah.PhD D: The number of {disfmarker} of sentences, no it's the number isn't.PhD C: Yeah sure {disfmarker} sure. Yeah sure.Professor B: Yeah so anyway if you could just mail out what those numbers are and then {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that B: I thought that was the one {disfmarker} I thought that was the second row. So what's the difference between the secondPhD C: Uh the second line you don't have this combo stuff so you justProfessor B: Oh.PhD C: uhProfessor B: So this is like the second line but with {disfmarker} with the combo stuff.PhD C: Yeah. Yeah.PhD D: And with the {disfmarker} all the output of the combo.Professor B: OK. Yeah.PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: UhProfessor B: OK, so {disfmarker} alright so it looks to me {disfmarker} I guess the same {disfmarker} given that we have to take the filt ones out of the {disfmarker} the running because of this delay problem {disfmarker} so it looks to me like the ones you said I agree are {disfmarker} are the ones to look atPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but I just would add the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the second row onePhD C: Yeah.Professor B: and then um if we can umPhD C: Mmm.Professor B: oh yeah also when {disfmarker} when they're using this weighting scheme of forty, thirty - five, twenty - five is that on the percentages or on the raw errors I guess it's probably on the percentages rightPhD C: Uh {vocalsound} I guess, yeah.Professor B: Yeah OK.PhD C: I guess, yeah. Mmm.Professor B: Alright.PhD C: It's not clear here.Professor B: OK. Maybe {disfmarker} maybe they'll argue about it. Um OK so if we can know what {disfmarker} how many words are in each and then um Dave uh Dave promised to get us something tomorrow which will be there as far as they've gotten {vocalsound} FridayPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: and then we'll operate with thatPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: and uh how long did it I guess if we're not doing all these things {disfmarker} if Mm - hmm.Professor B: and {disfmarker} and uh so I think each one is four processors or something or {disfmarker} I don't know, eight hundred megahertz or something and there's four processors in a box and there's ten boxes and there's some kind of ti so if {disfmarker} you know he's got a lot of processing power and um we'd have to schedule it but if we have some big jobs and we wanna {disfmarker} wanna {disfmarker} wanna run them he's {disfmarker} he's offering it.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: So. It's uh when he was here eh uh he {disfmarker} he used i not only every machine here but every machine on campus as far as I could tell, so {disfmarker} so in some ways he just got his payback, but uh again I {disfmarker} I don't know if we'll end up with {disfmarker} if we're gonna be CPU limited on anything that we're doing in this groupPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but {disfmarker} but if {disfmarker} if we are that's an offer. OK well uh you guys doing great stuff so that's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that's really neat and uh we'll uh uh g don't think we need to uh um Oh well the other thing I guess that I will say is that uh the digits that we're gonna record momentarily is starting to get {disfmarker} are starting to get into a pretty good size collection and um in addition to the SpeechDat stuff we will have those to work with really pretty soon now so that's {disfmarker} that's another source of data. Um which is s under somewhat better control and that we can {disfmarker} we can make measurements of the room the {disfmarker} uh that {disfmarker} you know if we feel there's other measurements we don't have that we'd like to have we can make them and uh Dave and I were just talking about that a little while ago so uh that's another {disfmarker} another possibility for this {disfmarker} this kind of work.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: K, uh if nobody has anything else maybe we should go around do {disfmarker} do our digits {disfmarker} do our digits duty. OK. OK I'll start. Uh, let me say that again. OK. I guess we're done. you {disfmarker} you yellowed these out uh but uh uh Oh I see yeah that {disfmarker} that one you can't use because of the delay. Those look pretty good. Um let's see that one Well even the {disfmarker} just the {disfmarker} the second row doesn't look that bad right That's just uh yeahPhD C: Yep.Professor B: And {disfmarker} and that looks like an interesting one too.PhD D: Mmm yeah.Professor B: UhPhD C: Actually the {disfmarker} yeah the second line is uh pretty much like the first line in yellow except that we don't have this KLT on the first {disfmarker} on the left part of the diagram. We just have the features as they are.Professor B: Mm - hmm.PhD C: UmProfessor B: Yeah. Yeah so when we do this weighted measure we should compare the two cuz it might even come out better. And it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's a little {disfmarker} slightly simpler.PhD C: Mm - hmm. Yeah.Professor B: So {disfmarker} so there's {disfmarker} so I {disfmarker} I would put that one also as a {disfmarker} as a maybe. Uh and it {disfmarker} yeah and it's actually {vocalsound} does {disfmarker} does significantly better on the uh uh highly mismatched Italian, so s and little worse on the mis on the MM case, but uh Well yeah it's worse than a few thingsPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: so uh let's see how that c that c c see how that comes out on their {disfmarker} their measure and {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are we running this uh for TI - digits or uhPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: Now is TI di {disfmarker} is is that part of the result that they get for the uh development {disfmarker} th the results that they're supposed to get at the end of {disfmarker} end of the month, the TI - digits are there alsoPhD C: Yeah. Yeah. It's included, yeah.Professor B: Oh OK. OK. And see what else there is here. Um Oh I see {disfmarker} the one {disfmarker} I was looking down here at the {disfmarker} the o the row below the lower yellowed one. Uh that's uh that's with the reduced uh KLT size {disfmarker} reduced dimensionality.PhD C: Mm - hmm Yeah. Yeah.Professor B: What happens there is it's around the same and so you could reduce the dimension as you were saying before a bit perhaps.PhD C: Yeah, it's {disfmarker} it's significantly worse well but {disfmarker} Mm - hmm.Professor B: It's significantly worse {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's uh it's {disfmarker} it's mostly worse.PhD C: Exc - except for the HMPhD D: For many a mismatch it's worse.PhD C: butProfessor B: Yeah. But it is little. I mean not {disfmarker} not by a huge amount, I don't know. What are {disfmarker} what are the sizes of any of these sets, I {disfmarker} I'm {disfmarker} I'm sure you told me before, but I've forgotten. So {disfmarker} you know how many words are in uh one of these test setsPhD C: UhPhD D: I don't remember.Professor B: AboutPhD C: Um it's {disfmarker} it depends {disfmarker} well {disfmarker} the well matched is generally larger than the other sets and I think it's around two thousand or three thousand words perhaps, at least.PhD D: Ye But words {disfmarker} well word {disfmarker} I don't know.PhD C: Hmm The words, yeah. S sentences.PhD D: Sentences.PhD C: Some sets have five hundred sentences, so.PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: So the {disfmarker} so the sets {disfmarker} so the test sets are between five hundred and two thousand sentences, let's sayPhD C: Mmm.Professor B: and each sentence on the average has four

What did PhD C think about silence detection

PhD C explained that there was no room left for silence detection because of the server side delay. They were working out a compromise between the handset delay and the server delay, but the delay was too large at the moment.

or five digits or is it {disfmarker} most of them longer orPhD C: Yeah.PhD D: Yeah for the Italian even seven digits y more or lessPhD C: It {disfmarker} it d Seven digits.PhD D: but sometime the sentence have only one digit and sometime uh like uh the number of uh credit cards, something like that.Professor B: Mm - hmm. Right, so between one and sixteen. See the {disfmarker} I mean the reason I'm asking is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is we have all these small differences and I don't know how seriously to take them, rightPhD C: Mm - hmmProfessor B: So uh i if {disfmarker} if you had uh just you know {disfmarker} to give an example, if you had uh um if you had a thousand words then uh a {disfmarker} a tenth of a percent would just be one word,PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: right So {disfmarker} so it wouldn't mean anything.PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: OhPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: um so um yeah it be kind of {disfmarker} I'd kind of like to know what the sizes of these test sets were actually.PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: The size that we havePhD C: We could {disfmarker} we could run {disfmarker} run some kind of significance testsProfessor B: Yeah since these {disfmarker} well also just to know the numbers,PhD C: orPhD D: Yeah.Professor B: right. So these {disfmarker} these are word error ratesPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: so this is on how many words.PhD C: Yep.PhD D: Yeah we have the result that the output of the HTKProfessor B: Yeah.PhD D: The number of {disfmarker} of sentences, no it's the number isn't.PhD C: Yeah sure {disfmarker} sure. Yeah sure.Professor B: Yeah so anyway if you could just mail out what those numbers are and then {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that Mm - hmm.Professor B: and {disfmarker} and uh so I think each one is four processors or something or {disfmarker} I don't know, eight hundred megahertz or something and there's four processors in a box and there's ten boxes and there's some kind of ti so if {disfmarker} you know he's got a lot of processing power and um we'd have to schedule it but if we have some big jobs and we wanna {disfmarker} wanna {disfmarker} wanna run them he's {disfmarker} he's offering it.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: So. It's uh when he was here eh uh he {disfmarker} he used i not only every machine here but every machine on campus as far as I could tell, so {disfmarker} so in some ways he just got his payback, but uh again I {disfmarker} I don't know if we'll end up with {disfmarker} if we're gonna be CPU limited on anything that we're doing in this groupPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but {disfmarker} but if {disfmarker} if we are that's an offer. OK well uh you guys doing great stuff so that's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that's really neat and uh we'll uh uh g don't think we need to uh um Oh well the other thing I guess that I will say is that uh the digits that we're gonna record momentarily is starting to get {disfmarker} are starting to get into a pretty good size collection and um in addition to the SpeechDat stuff we will have those to work with really pretty soon now so that's {disfmarker} that's another source of data. Um which is s under somewhat better control and that we can {disfmarker} we can make measurements of the room the {disfmarker} uh that {disfmarker} you know if we feel there's other measurements we don't have that we'd like to have we can make them and uh Dave and I were just talking about that a little while ago so uh that's another {disfmarker} another possibility for this {disfmarker} this kind of work.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: K, uh if nobody has anything else maybe we should go around do {disfmarker} do our digits {disfmarker} do our digits duty. OK. OK I'll start. Uh, let me say that again. OK. I guess we're done. of the month, the TI - digits are there alsoPhD C: Yeah. Yeah. It's included, yeah.Professor B: Oh OK. OK. And see what else there is here. Um Oh I see {disfmarker} the one {disfmarker} I was looking down here at the {disfmarker} the o the row below the lower yellowed one. Uh that's uh that's with the reduced uh KLT size {disfmarker} reduced dimensionality.PhD C: Mm - hmm Yeah. Yeah.Professor B: What happens there is it's around the same and so you could reduce the dimension as you were saying before a bit perhaps.PhD C: Yeah, it's {disfmarker} it's significantly worse well but {disfmarker} Mm - hmm.Professor B: It's significantly worse {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's uh it's {disfmarker} it's mostly worse.PhD C: Exc - except for the HMPhD D: For many a mismatch it's worse.PhD C: butProfessor B: Yeah. But it is little. I mean not {disfmarker} not by a huge amount, I don't know. What are {disfmarker} what are the sizes of any of these sets, I {disfmarker} I'm {disfmarker} I'm sure you told me before, but I've forgotten. So {disfmarker} you know how many words are in uh one of these test setsPhD C: UhPhD D: I don't remember.Professor B: AboutPhD C: Um it's {disfmarker} it depends {disfmarker} well {disfmarker} the well matched is generally larger than the other sets and I think it's around two thousand or three thousand words perhaps, at least.PhD D: Ye But words {disfmarker} well word {disfmarker} I don't know.PhD C: Hmm The words, yeah. S sentences.PhD D: Sentences.PhD C: Some sets have five hundred sentences, so.PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: So the {disfmarker} so the sets {disfmarker} so the test sets are between five hundred and two thousand sentences, let's sayPhD C: Mmm.Professor B: and each sentence on the average has four B: I thought that was the one {disfmarker} I thought that was the second row. So what's the difference between the secondPhD C: Uh the second line you don't have this combo stuff so you justProfessor B: Oh.PhD C: uhProfessor B: So this is like the second line but with {disfmarker} with the combo stuff.PhD C: Yeah. Yeah.PhD D: And with the {disfmarker} all the output of the combo.Professor B: OK. Yeah.PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: UhProfessor B: OK, so {disfmarker} alright so it looks to me {disfmarker} I guess the same {disfmarker} given that we have to take the filt ones out of the {disfmarker} the running because of this delay problem {disfmarker} so it looks to me like the ones you said I agree are {disfmarker} are the ones to look atPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but I just would add the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the second row onePhD C: Yeah.Professor B: and then um if we can umPhD C: Mmm.Professor B: oh yeah also when {disfmarker} when they're using this weighting scheme of forty, thirty - five, twenty - five is that on the percentages or on the raw errors I guess it's probably on the percentages rightPhD C: Uh {vocalsound} I guess, yeah.Professor B: Yeah OK.PhD C: I guess, yeah. Mmm.Professor B: Alright.PhD C: It's not clear here.Professor B: OK. Maybe {disfmarker} maybe they'll argue about it. Um OK so if we can know what {disfmarker} how many words are in each and then um Dave uh Dave promised to get us something tomorrow which will be there as far as they've gotten {vocalsound} FridayPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: and then we'll operate with thatPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: and uh how long did it I guess if we're not doing all these things {disfmarker} if sort of have a little aftermathPhD D: Yeah.Professor B: but then {disfmarker} then we'll actually have the new data which is the German and the DanishPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: but that really will be much less work because uh the system will be fixedPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: so all we'll do is take whatever {vocalsound} they have and {disfmarker} and uh and run it through the process.PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: Uh we won't be changing the training on anythingPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: so there'll be no new training, there'll just be new HTK runs, so that's means in some sense we can kind of relax from this after {disfmarker} after Tuesday and {disfmarker} and uh maybe next meeting we can start talking a little bit about where we want to go from here uh in terms of uh the research.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: Um you know what things uh did you think of when you were uh doing this process that uh you just didn't really have time to adequately work on uh uh soPhD C: Mm - hmm. Yeah.Professor B: WhatGrad A: Oh, Stephane always has these great ideas and {disfmarker} oh, but uh we don't have time.PhD C: Sure.Professor B: Yeah.Grad A: Yeah.Professor B: Yeah.PhD C: I'm not sure these are great ideas.Professor B: But they're ideas. Yeah Oh, that was good.PhD C: Yeah.Grad A: Yeah.Professor B: And {disfmarker} and uh also it's still true that uh I think it's true that {disfmarker} that we {disfmarker} we at least got fairly consistent i improved results by running uh the uh neural net transformation in parallel with the featuresPhD C: ButProfessor B: rather than uh in sequence which was {disfmarker} was your suggestion and that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that seems to have been borne out.PhD

What did the professor think about the silence detection problem

The professor thought that the results in the experiment without silence detection were okay as well. He thought some sort of weighted measure between other features should result in good performance.

or five digits or is it {disfmarker} most of them longer orPhD C: Yeah.PhD D: Yeah for the Italian even seven digits y more or lessPhD C: It {disfmarker} it d Seven digits.PhD D: but sometime the sentence have only one digit and sometime uh like uh the number of uh credit cards, something like that.Professor B: Mm - hmm. Right, so between one and sixteen. See the {disfmarker} I mean the reason I'm asking is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is we have all these small differences and I don't know how seriously to take them, rightPhD C: Mm - hmmProfessor B: So uh i if {disfmarker} if you had uh just you know {disfmarker} to give an example, if you had uh um if you had a thousand words then uh a {disfmarker} a tenth of a percent would just be one word,PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: right So {disfmarker} so it wouldn't mean anything.PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: OhPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: um so um yeah it be kind of {disfmarker} I'd kind of like to know what the sizes of these test sets were actually.PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: The size that we havePhD C: We could {disfmarker} we could run {disfmarker} run some kind of significance testsProfessor B: Yeah since these {disfmarker} well also just to know the numbers,PhD C: orPhD D: Yeah.Professor B: right. So these {disfmarker} these are word error ratesPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: so this is on how many words.PhD C: Yep.PhD D: Yeah we have the result that the output of the HTKProfessor B: Yeah.PhD D: The number of {disfmarker} of sentences, no it's the number isn't.PhD C: Yeah sure {disfmarker} sure. Yeah sure.Professor B: Yeah so anyway if you could just mail out what those numbers are and then {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that Mm - hmm.Professor B: and {disfmarker} and uh so I think each one is four processors or something or {disfmarker} I don't know, eight hundred megahertz or something and there's four processors in a box and there's ten boxes and there's some kind of ti so if {disfmarker} you know he's got a lot of processing power and um we'd have to schedule it but if we have some big jobs and we wanna {disfmarker} wanna {disfmarker} wanna run them he's {disfmarker} he's offering it.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: So. It's uh when he was here eh uh he {disfmarker} he used i not only every machine here but every machine on campus as far as I could tell, so {disfmarker} so in some ways he just got his payback, but uh again I {disfmarker} I don't know if we'll end up with {disfmarker} if we're gonna be CPU limited on anything that we're doing in this groupPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but {disfmarker} but if {disfmarker} if we are that's an offer. OK well uh you guys doing great stuff so that's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that's really neat and uh we'll uh uh g don't think we need to uh um Oh well the other thing I guess that I will say is that uh the digits that we're gonna record momentarily is starting to get {disfmarker} are starting to get into a pretty good size collection and um in addition to the SpeechDat stuff we will have those to work with really pretty soon now so that's {disfmarker} that's another source of data. Um which is s under somewhat better control and that we can {disfmarker} we can make measurements of the room the {disfmarker} uh that {disfmarker} you know if we feel there's other measurements we don't have that we'd like to have we can make them and uh Dave and I were just talking about that a little while ago so uh that's another {disfmarker} another possibility for this {disfmarker} this kind of work.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: K, uh if nobody has anything else maybe we should go around do {disfmarker} do our digits {disfmarker} do our digits duty. OK. OK I'll start. Uh, let me say that again. OK. I guess we're done. you {disfmarker} you yellowed these out uh but uh uh Oh I see yeah that {disfmarker} that one you can't use because of the delay. Those look pretty good. Um let's see that one Well even the {disfmarker} just the {disfmarker} the second row doesn't look that bad right That's just uh yeahPhD C: Yep.Professor B: And {disfmarker} and that looks like an interesting one too.PhD D: Mmm yeah.Professor B: UhPhD C: Actually the {disfmarker} yeah the second line is uh pretty much like the first line in yellow except that we don't have this KLT on the first {disfmarker} on the left part of the diagram. We just have the features as they are.Professor B: Mm - hmm.PhD C: UmProfessor B: Yeah. Yeah so when we do this weighted measure we should compare the two cuz it might even come out better. And it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's a little {disfmarker} slightly simpler.PhD C: Mm - hmm. Yeah.Professor B: So {disfmarker} so there's {disfmarker} so I {disfmarker} I would put that one also as a {disfmarker} as a maybe. Uh and it {disfmarker} yeah and it's actually {vocalsound} does {disfmarker} does significantly better on the uh uh highly mismatched Italian, so s and little worse on the mis on the MM case, but uh Well yeah it's worse than a few thingsPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: so uh let's see how that c that c c see how that comes out on their {disfmarker} their measure and {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are we running this uh for TI - digits or uhPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: Now is TI di {disfmarker} is is that part of the result that they get for the uh development {disfmarker} th the results that they're supposed to get at the end of {disfmarker} end of the month, the TI - digits are there alsoPhD C: Yeah. Yeah. It's included, yeah.Professor B: Oh OK. OK. And see what else there is here. Um Oh I see {disfmarker} the one {disfmarker} I was looking down here at the {disfmarker} the o the row below the lower yellowed one. Uh that's uh that's with the reduced uh KLT size {disfmarker} reduced dimensionality.PhD C: Mm - hmm Yeah. Yeah.Professor B: What happens there is it's around the same and so you could reduce the dimension as you were saying before a bit perhaps.PhD C: Yeah, it's {disfmarker} it's significantly worse well but {disfmarker} Mm - hmm.Professor B: It's significantly worse {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's uh it's {disfmarker} it's mostly worse.PhD C: Exc - except for the HMPhD D: For many a mismatch it's worse.PhD C: butProfessor B: Yeah. But it is little. I mean not {disfmarker} not by a huge amount, I don't know. What are {disfmarker} what are the sizes of any of these sets, I {disfmarker} I'm {disfmarker} I'm sure you told me before, but I've forgotten. So {disfmarker} you know how many words are in uh one of these test setsPhD C: UhPhD D: I don't remember.Professor B: AboutPhD C: Um it's {disfmarker} it depends {disfmarker} well {disfmarker} the well matched is generally larger than the other sets and I think it's around two thousand or three thousand words perhaps, at least.PhD D: Ye But words {disfmarker} well word {disfmarker} I don't know.PhD C: Hmm The words, yeah. S sentences.PhD D: Sentences.PhD C: Some sets have five hundred sentences, so.PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: So the {disfmarker} so the sets {disfmarker} so the test sets are between five hundred and two thousand sentences, let's sayPhD C: Mmm.Professor B: and each sentence on the average has four B: I thought that was the one {disfmarker} I thought that was the second row. So what's the difference between the secondPhD C: Uh the second line you don't have this combo stuff so you justProfessor B: Oh.PhD C: uhProfessor B: So this is like the second line but with {disfmarker} with the combo stuff.PhD C: Yeah. Yeah.PhD D: And with the {disfmarker} all the output of the combo.Professor B: OK. Yeah.PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: UhProfessor B: OK, so {disfmarker} alright so it looks to me {disfmarker} I guess the same {disfmarker} given that we have to take the filt ones out of the {disfmarker} the running because of this delay problem {disfmarker} so it looks to me like the ones you said I agree are {disfmarker} are the ones to look atPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but I just would add the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the second row onePhD C: Yeah.Professor B: and then um if we can umPhD C: Mmm.Professor B: oh yeah also when {disfmarker} when they're using this weighting scheme of forty, thirty - five, twenty - five is that on the percentages or on the raw errors I guess it's probably on the percentages rightPhD C: Uh {vocalsound} I guess, yeah.Professor B: Yeah OK.PhD C: I guess, yeah. Mmm.Professor B: Alright.PhD C: It's not clear here.Professor B: OK. Maybe {disfmarker} maybe they'll argue about it. Um OK so if we can know what {disfmarker} how many words are in each and then um Dave uh Dave promised to get us something tomorrow which will be there as far as they've gotten {vocalsound} FridayPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: and then we'll operate with thatPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: and uh how long did it I guess if we're not doing all these things {disfmarker} if

Summarize the discussion on fixing the system

It was time for the team to rely on the models they had created so far to fix the system. They were deciding when to fix it. The professor explained that they should do so by Tuesday, and when they get new data later in the week, they need not train on it.

or five digits or is it {disfmarker} most of them longer orPhD C: Yeah.PhD D: Yeah for the Italian even seven digits y more or lessPhD C: It {disfmarker} it d Seven digits.PhD D: but sometime the sentence have only one digit and sometime uh like uh the number of uh credit cards, something like that.Professor B: Mm - hmm. Right, so between one and sixteen. See the {disfmarker} I mean the reason I'm asking is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is we have all these small differences and I don't know how seriously to take them, rightPhD C: Mm - hmmProfessor B: So uh i if {disfmarker} if you had uh just you know {disfmarker} to give an example, if you had uh um if you had a thousand words then uh a {disfmarker} a tenth of a percent would just be one word,PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: right So {disfmarker} so it wouldn't mean anything.PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: OhPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: um so um yeah it be kind of {disfmarker} I'd kind of like to know what the sizes of these test sets were actually.PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: The size that we havePhD C: We could {disfmarker} we could run {disfmarker} run some kind of significance testsProfessor B: Yeah since these {disfmarker} well also just to know the numbers,PhD C: orPhD D: Yeah.Professor B: right. So these {disfmarker} these are word error ratesPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: so this is on how many words.PhD C: Yep.PhD D: Yeah we have the result that the output of the HTKProfessor B: Yeah.PhD D: The number of {disfmarker} of sentences, no it's the number isn't.PhD C: Yeah sure {disfmarker} sure. Yeah sure.Professor B: Yeah so anyway if you could just mail out what those numbers are and then {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that Mm - hmm.Professor B: and {disfmarker} and uh so I think each one is four processors or something or {disfmarker} I don't know, eight hundred megahertz or something and there's four processors in a box and there's ten boxes and there's some kind of ti so if {disfmarker} you know he's got a lot of processing power and um we'd have to schedule it but if we have some big jobs and we wanna {disfmarker} wanna {disfmarker} wanna run them he's {disfmarker} he's offering it.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: So. It's uh when he was here eh uh he {disfmarker} he used i not only every machine here but every machine on campus as far as I could tell, so {disfmarker} so in some ways he just got his payback, but uh again I {disfmarker} I don't know if we'll end up with {disfmarker} if we're gonna be CPU limited on anything that we're doing in this groupPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but {disfmarker} but if {disfmarker} if we are that's an offer. OK well uh you guys doing great stuff so that's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that's really neat and uh we'll uh uh g don't think we need to uh um Oh well the other thing I guess that I will say is that uh the digits that we're gonna record momentarily is starting to get {disfmarker} are starting to get into a pretty good size collection and um in addition to the SpeechDat stuff we will have those to work with really pretty soon now so that's {disfmarker} that's another source of data. Um which is s under somewhat better control and that we can {disfmarker} we can make measurements of the room the {disfmarker} uh that {disfmarker} you know if we feel there's other measurements we don't have that we'd like to have we can make them and uh Dave and I were just talking about that a little while ago so uh that's another {disfmarker} another possibility for this {disfmarker} this kind of work.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: K, uh if nobody has anything else maybe we should go around do {disfmarker} do our digits {disfmarker} do our digits duty. OK. OK I'll start. Uh, let me say that again. OK. I guess we're done. of the month, the TI - digits are there alsoPhD C: Yeah. Yeah. It's included, yeah.Professor B: Oh OK. OK. And see what else there is here. Um Oh I see {disfmarker} the one {disfmarker} I was looking down here at the {disfmarker} the o the row below the lower yellowed one. Uh that's uh that's with the reduced uh KLT size {disfmarker} reduced dimensionality.PhD C: Mm - hmm Yeah. Yeah.Professor B: What happens there is it's around the same and so you could reduce the dimension as you were saying before a bit perhaps.PhD C: Yeah, it's {disfmarker} it's significantly worse well but {disfmarker} Mm - hmm.Professor B: It's significantly worse {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's uh it's {disfmarker} it's mostly worse.PhD C: Exc - except for the HMPhD D: For many a mismatch it's worse.PhD C: butProfessor B: Yeah. But it is little. I mean not {disfmarker} not by a huge amount, I don't know. What are {disfmarker} what are the sizes of any of these sets, I {disfmarker} I'm {disfmarker} I'm sure you told me before, but I've forgotten. So {disfmarker} you know how many words are in uh one of these test setsPhD C: UhPhD D: I don't remember.Professor B: AboutPhD C: Um it's {disfmarker} it depends {disfmarker} well {disfmarker} the well matched is generally larger than the other sets and I think it's around two thousand or three thousand words perhaps, at least.PhD D: Ye But words {disfmarker} well word {disfmarker} I don't know.PhD C: Hmm The words, yeah. S sentences.PhD D: Sentences.PhD C: Some sets have five hundred sentences, so.PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: So the {disfmarker} so the sets {disfmarker} so the test sets are between five hundred and two thousand sentences, let's sayPhD C: Mmm.Professor B: and each sentence on the average has four B: I thought that was the one {disfmarker} I thought that was the second row. So what's the difference between the secondPhD C: Uh the second line you don't have this combo stuff so you justProfessor B: Oh.PhD C: uhProfessor B: So this is like the second line but with {disfmarker} with the combo stuff.PhD C: Yeah. Yeah.PhD D: And with the {disfmarker} all the output of the combo.Professor B: OK. Yeah.PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: UhProfessor B: OK, so {disfmarker} alright so it looks to me {disfmarker} I guess the same {disfmarker} given that we have to take the filt ones out of the {disfmarker} the running because of this delay problem {disfmarker} so it looks to me like the ones you said I agree are {disfmarker} are the ones to look atPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but I just would add the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the second row onePhD C: Yeah.Professor B: and then um if we can umPhD C: Mmm.Professor B: oh yeah also when {disfmarker} when they're using this weighting scheme of forty, thirty - five, twenty - five is that on the percentages or on the raw errors I guess it's probably on the percentages rightPhD C: Uh {vocalsound} I guess, yeah.Professor B: Yeah OK.PhD C: I guess, yeah. Mmm.Professor B: Alright.PhD C: It's not clear here.Professor B: OK. Maybe {disfmarker} maybe they'll argue about it. Um OK so if we can know what {disfmarker} how many words are in each and then um Dave uh Dave promised to get us something tomorrow which will be there as far as they've gotten {vocalsound} FridayPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: and then we'll operate with thatPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: and uh how long did it I guess if we're not doing all these things {disfmarker} if sort of have a little aftermathPhD D: Yeah.Professor B: but then {disfmarker} then we'll actually have the new data which is the German and the DanishPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: but that really will be much less work because uh the system will be fixedPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: so all we'll do is take whatever {vocalsound} they have and {disfmarker} and uh and run it through the process.PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: Uh we won't be changing the training on anythingPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: so there'll be no new training, there'll just be new HTK runs, so that's means in some sense we can kind of relax from this after {disfmarker} after Tuesday and {disfmarker} and uh maybe next meeting we can start talking a little bit about where we want to go from here uh in terms of uh the research.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: Um you know what things uh did you think of when you were uh doing this process that uh you just didn't really have time to adequately work on uh uh soPhD C: Mm - hmm. Yeah.Professor B: WhatGrad A: Oh, Stephane always has these great ideas and {disfmarker} oh, but uh we don't have time.PhD C: Sure.Professor B: Yeah.Grad A: Yeah.Professor B: Yeah.PhD C: I'm not sure these are great ideas.Professor B: But they're ideas. Yeah Oh, that was good.PhD C: Yeah.Grad A: Yeah.Professor B: And {disfmarker} and uh also it's still true that uh I think it's true that {disfmarker} that we {disfmarker} we at least got fairly consistent i improved results by running uh the uh neural net transformation in parallel with the featuresPhD C: ButProfessor B: rather than uh in sequence which was {disfmarker} was your suggestion and that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that seems to have been borne out.PhD

What did the team think about a single KLT

PhD C thought that it would be worthwhile to test on a single KLT. The professor agreed that since it would be pretty low-maintenance, the team should do that, but only if they can fit it in.

or five digits or is it {disfmarker} most of them longer orPhD C: Yeah.PhD D: Yeah for the Italian even seven digits y more or lessPhD C: It {disfmarker} it d Seven digits.PhD D: but sometime the sentence have only one digit and sometime uh like uh the number of uh credit cards, something like that.Professor B: Mm - hmm. Right, so between one and sixteen. See the {disfmarker} I mean the reason I'm asking is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is we have all these small differences and I don't know how seriously to take them, rightPhD C: Mm - hmmProfessor B: So uh i if {disfmarker} if you had uh just you know {disfmarker} to give an example, if you had uh um if you had a thousand words then uh a {disfmarker} a tenth of a percent would just be one word,PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: right So {disfmarker} so it wouldn't mean anything.PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: OhPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: um so um yeah it be kind of {disfmarker} I'd kind of like to know what the sizes of these test sets were actually.PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: The size that we havePhD C: We could {disfmarker} we could run {disfmarker} run some kind of significance testsProfessor B: Yeah since these {disfmarker} well also just to know the numbers,PhD C: orPhD D: Yeah.Professor B: right. So these {disfmarker} these are word error ratesPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: so this is on how many words.PhD C: Yep.PhD D: Yeah we have the result that the output of the HTKProfessor B: Yeah.PhD D: The number of {disfmarker} of sentences, no it's the number isn't.PhD C: Yeah sure {disfmarker} sure. Yeah sure.Professor B: Yeah so anyway if you could just mail out what those numbers are and then {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that Mm - hmm.Professor B: and {disfmarker} and uh so I think each one is four processors or something or {disfmarker} I don't know, eight hundred megahertz or something and there's four processors in a box and there's ten boxes and there's some kind of ti so if {disfmarker} you know he's got a lot of processing power and um we'd have to schedule it but if we have some big jobs and we wanna {disfmarker} wanna {disfmarker} wanna run them he's {disfmarker} he's offering it.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: So. It's uh when he was here eh uh he {disfmarker} he used i not only every machine here but every machine on campus as far as I could tell, so {disfmarker} so in some ways he just got his payback, but uh again I {disfmarker} I don't know if we'll end up with {disfmarker} if we're gonna be CPU limited on anything that we're doing in this groupPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but {disfmarker} but if {disfmarker} if we are that's an offer. OK well uh you guys doing great stuff so that's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that's really neat and uh we'll uh uh g don't think we need to uh um Oh well the other thing I guess that I will say is that uh the digits that we're gonna record momentarily is starting to get {disfmarker} are starting to get into a pretty good size collection and um in addition to the SpeechDat stuff we will have those to work with really pretty soon now so that's {disfmarker} that's another source of data. Um which is s under somewhat better control and that we can {disfmarker} we can make measurements of the room the {disfmarker} uh that {disfmarker} you know if we feel there's other measurements we don't have that we'd like to have we can make them and uh Dave and I were just talking about that a little while ago so uh that's another {disfmarker} another possibility for this {disfmarker} this kind of work.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: K, uh if nobody has anything else maybe we should go around do {disfmarker} do our digits {disfmarker} do our digits duty. OK. OK I'll start. Uh, let me say that again. OK. I guess we're done. B: I thought that was the one {disfmarker} I thought that was the second row. So what's the difference between the secondPhD C: Uh the second line you don't have this combo stuff so you justProfessor B: Oh.PhD C: uhProfessor B: So this is like the second line but with {disfmarker} with the combo stuff.PhD C: Yeah. Yeah.PhD D: And with the {disfmarker} all the output of the combo.Professor B: OK. Yeah.PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: UhProfessor B: OK, so {disfmarker} alright so it looks to me {disfmarker} I guess the same {disfmarker} given that we have to take the filt ones out of the {disfmarker} the running because of this delay problem {disfmarker} so it looks to me like the ones you said I agree are {disfmarker} are the ones to look atPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but I just would add the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the second row onePhD C: Yeah.Professor B: and then um if we can umPhD C: Mmm.Professor B: oh yeah also when {disfmarker} when they're using this weighting scheme of forty, thirty - five, twenty - five is that on the percentages or on the raw errors I guess it's probably on the percentages rightPhD C: Uh {vocalsound} I guess, yeah.Professor B: Yeah OK.PhD C: I guess, yeah. Mmm.Professor B: Alright.PhD C: It's not clear here.Professor B: OK. Maybe {disfmarker} maybe they'll argue about it. Um OK so if we can know what {disfmarker} how many words are in each and then um Dave uh Dave promised to get us something tomorrow which will be there as far as they've gotten {vocalsound} FridayPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: and then we'll operate with thatPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: and uh how long did it I guess if we're not doing all these things {disfmarker} if of the month, the TI - digits are there alsoPhD C: Yeah. Yeah. It's included, yeah.Professor B: Oh OK. OK. And see what else there is here. Um Oh I see {disfmarker} the one {disfmarker} I was looking down here at the {disfmarker} the o the row below the lower yellowed one. Uh that's uh that's with the reduced uh KLT size {disfmarker} reduced dimensionality.PhD C: Mm - hmm Yeah. Yeah.Professor B: What happens there is it's around the same and so you could reduce the dimension as you were saying before a bit perhaps.PhD C: Yeah, it's {disfmarker} it's significantly worse well but {disfmarker} Mm - hmm.Professor B: It's significantly worse {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's uh it's {disfmarker} it's mostly worse.PhD C: Exc - except for the HMPhD D: For many a mismatch it's worse.PhD C: butProfessor B: Yeah. But it is little. I mean not {disfmarker} not by a huge amount, I don't know. What are {disfmarker} what are the sizes of any of these sets, I {disfmarker} I'm {disfmarker} I'm sure you told me before, but I've forgotten. So {disfmarker} you know how many words are in uh one of these test setsPhD C: UhPhD D: I don't remember.Professor B: AboutPhD C: Um it's {disfmarker} it depends {disfmarker} well {disfmarker} the well matched is generally larger than the other sets and I think it's around two thousand or three thousand words perhaps, at least.PhD D: Ye But words {disfmarker} well word {disfmarker} I don't know.PhD C: Hmm The words, yeah. S sentences.PhD D: Sentences.PhD C: Some sets have five hundred sentences, so.PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: So the {disfmarker} so the sets {disfmarker} so the test sets are between five hundred and two thousand sentences, let's sayPhD C: Mmm.Professor B: and each sentence on the average has four you {disfmarker} you yellowed these out uh but uh uh Oh I see yeah that {disfmarker} that one you can't use because of the delay. Those look pretty good. Um let's see that one Well even the {disfmarker} just the {disfmarker} the second row doesn't look that bad right That's just uh yeahPhD C: Yep.Professor B: And {disfmarker} and that looks like an interesting one too.PhD D: Mmm yeah.Professor B: UhPhD C: Actually the {disfmarker} yeah the second line is uh pretty much like the first line in yellow except that we don't have this KLT on the first {disfmarker} on the left part of the diagram. We just have the features as they are.Professor B: Mm - hmm.PhD C: UmProfessor B: Yeah. Yeah so when we do this weighted measure we should compare the two cuz it might even come out better. And it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's a little {disfmarker} slightly simpler.PhD C: Mm - hmm. Yeah.Professor B: So {disfmarker} so there's {disfmarker} so I {disfmarker} I would put that one also as a {disfmarker} as a maybe. Uh and it {disfmarker} yeah and it's actually {vocalsound} does {disfmarker} does significantly better on the uh uh highly mismatched Italian, so s and little worse on the mis on the MM case, but uh Well yeah it's worse than a few thingsPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: so uh let's see how that c that c c see how that comes out on their {disfmarker} their measure and {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are we running this uh for TI - digits or uhPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: Now is TI di {disfmarker} is is that part of the result that they get for the uh development {disfmarker} th the results that they're supposed to get at the end of {disfmarker} end

What were the professor's concluding comments

The professor noted that the most important improvements over the years have been due to finding bugs. He also informed the team of some IBM processors that were available to them at the University of Washington. He finally congratulated them on their efforts.

or five digits or is it {disfmarker} most of them longer orPhD C: Yeah.PhD D: Yeah for the Italian even seven digits y more or lessPhD C: It {disfmarker} it d Seven digits.PhD D: but sometime the sentence have only one digit and sometime uh like uh the number of uh credit cards, something like that.Professor B: Mm - hmm. Right, so between one and sixteen. See the {disfmarker} I mean the reason I'm asking is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is we have all these small differences and I don't know how seriously to take them, rightPhD C: Mm - hmmProfessor B: So uh i if {disfmarker} if you had uh just you know {disfmarker} to give an example, if you had uh um if you had a thousand words then uh a {disfmarker} a tenth of a percent would just be one word,PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: right So {disfmarker} so it wouldn't mean anything.PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: OhPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: um so um yeah it be kind of {disfmarker} I'd kind of like to know what the sizes of these test sets were actually.PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: The size that we havePhD C: We could {disfmarker} we could run {disfmarker} run some kind of significance testsProfessor B: Yeah since these {disfmarker} well also just to know the numbers,PhD C: orPhD D: Yeah.Professor B: right. So these {disfmarker} these are word error ratesPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: so this is on how many words.PhD C: Yep.PhD D: Yeah we have the result that the output of the HTKProfessor B: Yeah.PhD D: The number of {disfmarker} of sentences, no it's the number isn't.PhD C: Yeah sure {disfmarker} sure. Yeah sure.Professor B: Yeah so anyway if you could just mail out what those numbers are and then {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that Mm - hmm.Professor B: and {disfmarker} and uh so I think each one is four processors or something or {disfmarker} I don't know, eight hundred megahertz or something and there's four processors in a box and there's ten boxes and there's some kind of ti so if {disfmarker} you know he's got a lot of processing power and um we'd have to schedule it but if we have some big jobs and we wanna {disfmarker} wanna {disfmarker} wanna run them he's {disfmarker} he's offering it.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: So. It's uh when he was here eh uh he {disfmarker} he used i not only every machine here but every machine on campus as far as I could tell, so {disfmarker} so in some ways he just got his payback, but uh again I {disfmarker} I don't know if we'll end up with {disfmarker} if we're gonna be CPU limited on anything that we're doing in this groupPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but {disfmarker} but if {disfmarker} if we are that's an offer. OK well uh you guys doing great stuff so that's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that's really neat and uh we'll uh uh g don't think we need to uh um Oh well the other thing I guess that I will say is that uh the digits that we're gonna record momentarily is starting to get {disfmarker} are starting to get into a pretty good size collection and um in addition to the SpeechDat stuff we will have those to work with really pretty soon now so that's {disfmarker} that's another source of data. Um which is s under somewhat better control and that we can {disfmarker} we can make measurements of the room the {disfmarker} uh that {disfmarker} you know if we feel there's other measurements we don't have that we'd like to have we can make them and uh Dave and I were just talking about that a little while ago so uh that's another {disfmarker} another possibility for this {disfmarker} this kind of work.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: K, uh if nobody has anything else maybe we should go around do {disfmarker} do our digits {disfmarker} do our digits duty. OK. OK I'll start. Uh, let me say that again. OK. I guess we're done. C: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.Professor B: The fact that none of these are {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} you know, enormous is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is not too surprising {disfmarker} most improvements aren't enormous and {vocalsound} uhPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: some of them are but uh I mean you have something really really wrong {vocalsound} and you fix it {vocalsound} you can get big and really enormous improvementsPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} um Cuz our best improvements over the years that we've gotten from finding bugs, but Anyway OK well I {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker} I see where we are and everybody knows what they're doing and is there {disfmarker} is there anything else we should talk about or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} are we donePhD C: Mm - hmm. I think it's OK um. We so basically we will {disfmarker} I think we'll try to {disfmarker} to focus on these three architectures and {disfmarker} and perhaps I was thinking also a fourth one with just {disfmarker} just a single KLT because we did not really test that {disfmarker}Professor B: Uh - huh.PhD C: removing all these KLT's and putting one single KLT at the end.Professor B: Yeah, I mean that would be pretty low maintenance to try it.PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: Uh if you can fit it in.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: Oh I have {disfmarker} yeah I do have one other piece of information which uh I should tell people outside of this group too uh I don't know if we're gonna need it uh but uh Jeff up at the uh University of Washington has uh gotten a hold of a uh uh some kind of server farm of uh of ten uh uh multiprocessor uh IBM machines RS six thousandsPhD C: sort of have a little aftermathPhD D: Yeah.Professor B: but then {disfmarker} then we'll actually have the new data which is the German and the DanishPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: but that really will be much less work because uh the system will be fixedPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: so all we'll do is take whatever {vocalsound} they have and {disfmarker} and uh and run it through the process.PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: Uh we won't be changing the training on anythingPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: so there'll be no new training, there'll just be new HTK runs, so that's means in some sense we can kind of relax from this after {disfmarker} after Tuesday and {disfmarker} and uh maybe next meeting we can start talking a little bit about where we want to go from here uh in terms of uh the research.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: Um you know what things uh did you think of when you were uh doing this process that uh you just didn't really have time to adequately work on uh uh soPhD C: Mm - hmm. Yeah.Professor B: WhatGrad A: Oh, Stephane always has these great ideas and {disfmarker} oh, but uh we don't have time.PhD C: Sure.Professor B: Yeah.Grad A: Yeah.Professor B: Yeah.PhD C: I'm not sure these are great ideas.Professor B: But they're ideas. Yeah Oh, that was good.PhD C: Yeah.Grad A: Yeah.Professor B: And {disfmarker} and uh also it's still true that uh I think it's true that {disfmarker} that we {disfmarker} we at least got fairly consistent i improved results by running uh the uh neural net transformation in parallel with the featuresPhD C: ButProfessor B: rather than uh in sequence which was {disfmarker} was your suggestion and that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that seems to have been borne out.PhD B: I thought that was the one {disfmarker} I thought that was the second row. So what's the difference between the secondPhD C: Uh the second line you don't have this combo stuff so you justProfessor B: Oh.PhD C: uhProfessor B: So this is like the second line but with {disfmarker} with the combo stuff.PhD C: Yeah. Yeah.PhD D: And with the {disfmarker} all the output of the combo.Professor B: OK. Yeah.PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: UhProfessor B: OK, so {disfmarker} alright so it looks to me {disfmarker} I guess the same {disfmarker} given that we have to take the filt ones out of the {disfmarker} the running because of this delay problem {disfmarker} so it looks to me like the ones you said I agree are {disfmarker} are the ones to look atPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: but I just would add the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the second row onePhD C: Yeah.Professor B: and then um if we can umPhD C: Mmm.Professor B: oh yeah also when {disfmarker} when they're using this weighting scheme of forty, thirty - five, twenty - five is that on the percentages or on the raw errors I guess it's probably on the percentages rightPhD C: Uh {vocalsound} I guess, yeah.Professor B: Yeah OK.PhD C: I guess, yeah. Mmm.Professor B: Alright.PhD C: It's not clear here.Professor B: OK. Maybe {disfmarker} maybe they'll argue about it. Um OK so if we can know what {disfmarker} how many words are in each and then um Dave uh Dave promised to get us something tomorrow which will be there as far as they've gotten {vocalsound} FridayPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: and then we'll operate with thatPhD C: Yeah.Professor B: and uh how long did it I guess if we're not doing all these things {disfmarker} if

Summarize the meeting

The meeting participants discuss results from experiments and challenges that the model was facing. There was a significant server side delay, so they could not accommodate silence detection. Members noted that reducing model dimensions had a detrimental effect on model performance. The professor wanted to know the size of words that the word error rate was calculated on and explained that there would be no new training. From this point, they can start talking about future directions and work on fixing the system.

we're gonna use this T_F_T_ screenProject Manager: No, I don't think it's seven by seven,Industrial Designer: Yeah but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it's seven {disfmarker} the diagonal is seven.Industrial Designer: To be honest, I was {disfmarker}Project Manager: Usually when they say seven inch I think it's the diagonal.User Interface: Yeah yes {gap}.Marketing: But I mean even even that is like this big.Project Manager: Yeah. {vocalsound} I dunno I dun I dun One each {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: . But, yeah, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah, honestly speaking I was thinking that it was seven centimetres initially,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it's seven inches. But I I think we can we can cut it.Marketing: You can cut the T_F_T_ screen. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Let's go. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, no no problem,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because because because then the size of the graphic card will be one fourth.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So let's cut the T_F_T_.Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but no problem to to me to cut the screen.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Okay, so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So so for the same price we have four screens now {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: These technical engineers, huh.Marketing: So, what's the size of the deviceIndustrial Designer: Ah well this is like this is almost nothing. Seven to seven to at least well some three millimetres or something.Marketing: Even from my perspective seven t seven centimetres by seven centimetres is still {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but we wanted the big buttons and stuff like that, you know.Marketing: Is it {disfmarker} Can you hold that, orIndustrial Designer: Because if it's t too small we can we can lose it, at home, you know.Project Manager: {vocalsound} What user wants. He wants a small remote control, or Uh uh with big buttons.User Interface: Uh.Industrial Designer: I thought fanciness first and then two ti you know, half as important as that is technology technology,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and half important as technology is easy to use. So.Project Manager: {gap} So, Hamed, can you {gap}.User Interface: Yeah. The second one. Could you please show the presentation number three.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: I think the biggest struggle will be the easy to use feature.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um. NumberIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} We'll see.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Three.User Interface: Three.Project Manager: This one {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes. {gap} Just Could you please check if it is the first one or the second. Uh, n n no, it's the first one. The second one.Project Manager: So it's not this one.User Interface: Uh yeah. Okay. {gap} Okay. So I am going to talk about {disfmarker} a little bit about how this remote control should be appear to be more easy to use. I think uh I think the feature easy to use is more important than being fancy, but okay, we can discuss about it uh later. Um {vocalsound} generally, generally uh this remote control uh uh should be should be something, in my opinion, uh the first feature is just to be easy to use. So, the more frequent buttons should be larger, they should be placed in a good position uh uh inside the remote control. And uh s uh I can conclude like this, that we shouldn't need to learn how to use it. It should be {disfmarker} we shouldn't need to es open a a t book and uh start reading and uh learning how to use this uh this uh remote control. {vocalsound} Okay. So what I found out that uh as I said uh I think it's better to put uh more frequent uh uh uh ke uh buttons the {disfmarker} this will be like the overall scheme or overall requirements from the engineering point of view. Uh first thing is uh this will be the overall shape, no uh I'm not speaking about the real shape of the device, but the shape of the inside of the device. So there will be some circuit uh for the power. So, say power circuit here. Uh the main energy will be taken from batteries that we can uh uh {disfmarker} And if we decide to use the speech recognition stuff there, we must use additional source of energy, which I found the best is to use the solar cells which can which can uh supply everything. I was computing all the all the things related to the speech recognition, and it's okay to use just uh two batteries and solar cells, so. So no problem. There can be also solar cell. Uh the main board with all the circuits will take at least seven to seven centimetres, so this is my like hard requirement for the guys from the design.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So at least seven to seven. It depends where you put your screen, because the screen is uh seven inch, so it depends on you where where you put it.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It doesn't matter. Um it's just one cord from from the main board to the screen which can be elsewhere. So this will be T_F_T_. And on the main board we have the um interface to the microphone, which is somewhere, say here. Interface to the microphone. Then the graphical card uh for the T_F_T_ and the third unit is the I_R_. The good news is that we can uh we decided to use the infra-red unit because our company has also developed the chip Project Manager: Hello, uh this meeting we are it's fo should be focused on the conceptual design of the remote control.Marketing: Hello.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Hello.Project Manager: Um the goal of this meeting is to reach a decision at the end on the concept and I think the last time we talked about an a lot and we had a rough idea of what is going to be, but uh in th at the end of this meeting we have to to reach a decision. So, uh we will have again three presentation, from all of you, and uh I hope it will be fast because I would like to have time to for long discussion and and decisions. So, who wants to start Okay.User Interface: I sMarketing: Okay.User Interface: No, no, you you can start.Project Manager: So start, uhMarketing: Okay, I'll start. Can you open my presentation,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: please.Project Manager: Uh. {gap}Marketing: I'm number four.Project Manager: This oneMarketing: Trend. Yep. Can you pass the mouse, please. {vocalsound} Oh okay, that's fine.Project Manager: Turn.Marketing: Okay. Um so basically I just want to presented to you {disfmarker} present to you some recent results we've had from um looking at uh um some remote control market research and some fashion trends around the world. Um the fashion trends we got from talking to our our contacts in the fashion industry based in Paris and Milan. {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} so f from our market research basically we've come to the conclusion that a fancy look and feel, um as opposed to a functional look and feel, is our number one priority. Um fancy is is is is the, you know, highest priority.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Marketing: Secondly um that our remote control needs to be techn technologically innovative. Um so this is I've I s I think the easiest thing would be to to have a smaller L_C_D_, if it's possible.Industrial Designer: Well fi five to ten it would be feasible.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Okay, so five to ten, I I think it's it's feasible.Project Manager: Okay. So we are agree with a smallIndustrial Designer: I'll make it.User Interface: {gap} Or uh or I don't knowProject Manager: L_C_D_. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Fo Five by ten.User Interface: but I don't want to now invent something new, because we didn't discuss about it. So using some L_C_D_s we can touch, so we can remove uh keys and just uh having uh, I dunno the name, L_C_D_ responding to fingers.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Touching the screen. Something likeProject Manager: Tactile or something, yeah.User Interface: {disfmarker} Mm like tactile.Marketing: Mm, touch screen.Project Manager: Touch screen, yeah.User Interface: So {disfmarker} But for now if we don't want to use such kind of screens I I think we using a a smaller screen is better,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: because {disfmarker}Project Manager: The problem is we have a limit in a month of time, so we cannot do something very new.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So let's go for a small L_C_D_.Marketing: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay, so Yeah, so so just just give me the the the five by ten numbers that you find the best and send it meUser Interface: A smaller sProject Manager: Yeah okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So, five by s ten.Industrial Designer: and I will work it out.Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um so what about, so the case we talked about. Um something easy to use, you said something easy to use but how does that fit in a fashion way, like with fruit and vegetable, and about the colour and logo of the

Summarize the discussion about the result of marketing research and fashion trends.

From the marketing's point of view, fancy was the highest priority, followed by technologically innovativeness and ease of use. The marketing expected the feel of the material to be spongy.

the {disfmarker} this will be like the overall scheme or overall requirements from the engineering point of view. Uh first thing is uh this will be the overall shape, no uh I'm not speaking about the real shape of the device, but the shape of the inside of the device. So there will be some circuit uh for the power. So, say power circuit here. Uh the main energy will be taken from batteries that we can uh uh {disfmarker} And if we decide to use the speech recognition stuff there, we must use additional source of energy, which I found the best is to use the solar cells which can which can uh supply everything. I was computing all the all the things related to the speech recognition, and it's okay to use just uh two batteries and solar cells, so. So no problem. There can be also solar cell. Uh the main board with all the circuits will take at least seven to seven centimetres, so this is my like hard requirement for the guys from the design.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So at least seven to seven. It depends where you put your screen, because the screen is uh seven inch, so it depends on you where where you put it.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It doesn't matter. Um it's just one cord from from the main board to the screen which can be elsewhere. So this will be T_F_T_. And on the main board we have the um interface to the microphone, which is somewhere, say here. Interface to the microphone. Then the graphical card uh for the T_F_T_ and the third unit is the I_R_. The good news is that we can uh we decided to use the infra-red unit because our company has also developed the chip we're gonna use this T_F_T_ screenProject Manager: No, I don't think it's seven by seven,Industrial Designer: Yeah but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it's seven {disfmarker} the diagonal is seven.Industrial Designer: To be honest, I was {disfmarker}Project Manager: Usually when they say seven inch I think it's the diagonal.User Interface: Yeah yes {gap}.Marketing: But I mean even even that is like this big.Project Manager: Yeah. {vocalsound} I dunno I dun I dun One each {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: . But, yeah, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah, honestly speaking I was thinking that it was seven centimetres initially,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it's seven inches. But I I think we can we can cut it.Marketing: You can cut the T_F_T_ screen. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Let's go. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, no no problem,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because because because then the size of the graphic card will be one fourth.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So let's cut the T_F_T_.Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but no problem to to me to cut the screen.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Okay, so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So so for the same price we have four screens now {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: These technical engineers, huh.Marketing: So, what's the size of the deviceIndustrial Designer: Ah well this is like this is almost nothing. Seven to seven to at least well some three millimetres or something.Marketing: Even from my perspective seven t seven centimetres by seven centimetres is still {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but we wanted the big buttons and stuff like that, you know.Marketing: Is it {disfmarker} Can you hold that, orIndustrial Designer: Because if it's t too small we can we can lose it, at home, you know.Project Manager: {vocalsound} What user wants. He wants a small remote control, or Uh uh with big buttons.User Interface: Uh.Industrial Designer: I thought Project Manager: Hello, uh this meeting we are it's fo should be focused on the conceptual design of the remote control.Marketing: Hello.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Hello.Project Manager: Um the goal of this meeting is to reach a decision at the end on the concept and I think the last time we talked about an a lot and we had a rough idea of what is going to be, but uh in th at the end of this meeting we have to to reach a decision. So, uh we will have again three presentation, from all of you, and uh I hope it will be fast because I would like to have time to for long discussion and and decisions. So, who wants to start Okay.User Interface: I sMarketing: Okay.User Interface: No, no, you you can start.Project Manager: So start, uhMarketing: Okay, I'll start. Can you open my presentation,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: please.Project Manager: Uh. {gap}Marketing: I'm number four.Project Manager: This oneMarketing: Trend. Yep. Can you pass the mouse, please. {vocalsound} Oh okay, that's fine.Project Manager: Turn.Marketing: Okay. Um so basically I just want to presented to you {disfmarker} present to you some recent results we've had from um looking at uh um some remote control market research and some fashion trends around the world. Um the fashion trends we got from talking to our our contacts in the fashion industry based in Paris and Milan. {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} so f from our market research basically we've come to the conclusion that a fancy look and feel, um as opposed to a functional look and feel, is our number one priority. Um fancy is is is is the, you know, highest priority.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Marketing: Secondly um that our remote control needs to be techn technologically innovative. Um so this is I've I s I think the easiest thing would be to to have a smaller L_C_D_, if it's possible.Industrial Designer: Well fi five to ten it would be feasible.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Okay, so five to ten, I I think it's it's feasible.Project Manager: Okay. So we are agree with a smallIndustrial Designer: I'll make it.User Interface: {gap} Or uh or I don't knowProject Manager: L_C_D_. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Fo Five by ten.User Interface: but I don't want to now invent something new, because we didn't discuss about it. So using some L_C_D_s we can touch, so we can remove uh keys and just uh having uh, I dunno the name, L_C_D_ responding to fingers.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Touching the screen. Something likeProject Manager: Tactile or something, yeah.User Interface: {disfmarker} Mm like tactile.Marketing: Mm, touch screen.Project Manager: Touch screen, yeah.User Interface: So {disfmarker} But for now if we don't want to use such kind of screens I I think we using a a smaller screen is better,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: because {disfmarker}Project Manager: The problem is we have a limit in a month of time, so we cannot do something very new.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So let's go for a small L_C_D_.Marketing: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay, so Yeah, so so just just give me the the the five by ten numbers that you find the best and send it meUser Interface: A smaller sProject Manager: Yeah okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So, five by s ten.Industrial Designer: and I will work it out.Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um so what about, so the case we talked about. Um something easy to use, you said something easy to use but how does that fit in a fashion way, like with fruit and vegetable, and about the colour and logo of the fanciness first and then two ti you know, half as important as that is technology technology,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and half important as technology is easy to use. So.Project Manager: {gap} So, Hamed, can you {gap}.User Interface: Yeah. The second one. Could you please show the presentation number three.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: I think the biggest struggle will be the easy to use feature.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um. NumberIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} We'll see.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Three.User Interface: Three.Project Manager: This one {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes. {gap} Just Could you please check if it is the first one or the second. Uh, n n no, it's the first one. The second one.Project Manager: So it's not this one.User Interface: Uh yeah. Okay. {gap} Okay. So I am going to talk about {disfmarker} a little bit about how this remote control should be appear to be more easy to use. I think uh I think the feature easy to use is more important than being fancy, but okay, we can discuss about it uh later. Um {vocalsound} generally, generally uh this remote control uh uh should be should be something, in my opinion, uh the first feature is just to be easy to use. So, the more frequent buttons should be larger, they should be placed in a good position uh uh inside the remote control. And uh s uh I can conclude like this, that we shouldn't need to learn how to use it. It should be {disfmarker} we shouldn't need to es open a a t book and uh start reading and uh learning how to use this uh this uh remote control. {vocalsound} Okay. So what I found out that uh as I said uh I think it's better to put uh more frequent uh uh uh ke uh buttons

Summarize the discussion about use convenience.

User interface thought that the feature easy to use was more important than being fancy. He mentioned that the more frequent buttons should be larger and be placed in good positions. He preferred to put some buttons in special places and cover these buttons, or put some buttons inside the remote control. And the remote control also had to be easily taken in hands and energy-saving.

we're gonna use this T_F_T_ screenProject Manager: No, I don't think it's seven by seven,Industrial Designer: Yeah but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it's seven {disfmarker} the diagonal is seven.Industrial Designer: To be honest, I was {disfmarker}Project Manager: Usually when they say seven inch I think it's the diagonal.User Interface: Yeah yes {gap}.Marketing: But I mean even even that is like this big.Project Manager: Yeah. {vocalsound} I dunno I dun I dun One each {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: . But, yeah, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah, honestly speaking I was thinking that it was seven centimetres initially,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it's seven inches. But I I think we can we can cut it.Marketing: You can cut the T_F_T_ screen. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Let's go. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, no no problem,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because because because then the size of the graphic card will be one fourth.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So let's cut the T_F_T_.Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but no problem to to me to cut the screen.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Okay, so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So so for the same price we have four screens now {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: These technical engineers, huh.Marketing: So, what's the size of the deviceIndustrial Designer: Ah well this is like this is almost nothing. Seven to seven to at least well some three millimetres or something.Marketing: Even from my perspective seven t seven centimetres by seven centimetres is still {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but we wanted the big buttons and stuff like that, you know.Marketing: Is it {disfmarker} Can you hold that, orIndustrial Designer: Because if it's t too small we can we can lose it, at home, you know.Project Manager: {vocalsound} What user wants. He wants a small remote control, or Uh uh with big buttons.User Interface: Uh.Industrial Designer: I thought the {disfmarker} this will be like the overall scheme or overall requirements from the engineering point of view. Uh first thing is uh this will be the overall shape, no uh I'm not speaking about the real shape of the device, but the shape of the inside of the device. So there will be some circuit uh for the power. So, say power circuit here. Uh the main energy will be taken from batteries that we can uh uh {disfmarker} And if we decide to use the speech recognition stuff there, we must use additional source of energy, which I found the best is to use the solar cells which can which can uh supply everything. I was computing all the all the things related to the speech recognition, and it's okay to use just uh two batteries and solar cells, so. So no problem. There can be also solar cell. Uh the main board with all the circuits will take at least seven to seven centimetres, so this is my like hard requirement for the guys from the design.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So at least seven to seven. It depends where you put your screen, because the screen is uh seven inch, so it depends on you where where you put it.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It doesn't matter. Um it's just one cord from from the main board to the screen which can be elsewhere. So this will be T_F_T_. And on the main board we have the um interface to the microphone, which is somewhere, say here. Interface to the microphone. Then the graphical card uh for the T_F_T_ and the third unit is the I_R_. The good news is that we can uh we decided to use the infra-red unit because our company has also developed the chip Project Manager: Hello, uh this meeting we are it's fo should be focused on the conceptual design of the remote control.Marketing: Hello.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Hello.Project Manager: Um the goal of this meeting is to reach a decision at the end on the concept and I think the last time we talked about an a lot and we had a rough idea of what is going to be, but uh in th at the end of this meeting we have to to reach a decision. So, uh we will have again three presentation, from all of you, and uh I hope it will be fast because I would like to have time to for long discussion and and decisions. So, who wants to start Okay.User Interface: I sMarketing: Okay.User Interface: No, no, you you can start.Project Manager: So start, uhMarketing: Okay, I'll start. Can you open my presentation,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: please.Project Manager: Uh. {gap}Marketing: I'm number four.Project Manager: This oneMarketing: Trend. Yep. Can you pass the mouse, please. {vocalsound} Oh okay, that's fine.Project Manager: Turn.Marketing: Okay. Um so basically I just want to presented to you {disfmarker} present to you some recent results we've had from um looking at uh um some remote control market research and some fashion trends around the world. Um the fashion trends we got from talking to our our contacts in the fashion industry based in Paris and Milan. {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} so f from our market research basically we've come to the conclusion that a fancy look and feel, um as opposed to a functional look and feel, is our number one priority. Um fancy is is is is the, you know, highest priority.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Marketing: Secondly um that our remote control needs to be techn technologically innovative. Um so this is fanciness first and then two ti you know, half as important as that is technology technology,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and half important as technology is easy to use. So.Project Manager: {gap} So, Hamed, can you {gap}.User Interface: Yeah. The second one. Could you please show the presentation number three.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: I think the biggest struggle will be the easy to use feature.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um. NumberIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} We'll see.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Three.User Interface: Three.Project Manager: This one {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes. {gap} Just Could you please check if it is the first one or the second. Uh, n n no, it's the first one. The second one.Project Manager: So it's not this one.User Interface: Uh yeah. Okay. {gap} Okay. So I am going to talk about {disfmarker} a little bit about how this remote control should be appear to be more easy to use. I think uh I think the feature easy to use is more important than being fancy, but okay, we can discuss about it uh later. Um {vocalsound} generally, generally uh this remote control uh uh should be should be something, in my opinion, uh the first feature is just to be easy to use. So, the more frequent buttons should be larger, they should be placed in a good position uh uh inside the remote control. And uh s uh I can conclude like this, that we shouldn't need to learn how to use it. It should be {disfmarker} we shouldn't need to es open a a t book and uh start reading and uh learning how to use this uh this uh remote control. {vocalsound} Okay. So what I found out that uh as I said uh I think it's better to put uh more frequent uh uh uh ke uh buttons I've I s I think the easiest thing would be to to have a smaller L_C_D_, if it's possible.Industrial Designer: Well fi five to ten it would be feasible.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Okay, so five to ten, I I think it's it's feasible.Project Manager: Okay. So we are agree with a smallIndustrial Designer: I'll make it.User Interface: {gap} Or uh or I don't knowProject Manager: L_C_D_. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Fo Five by ten.User Interface: but I don't want to now invent something new, because we didn't discuss about it. So using some L_C_D_s we can touch, so we can remove uh keys and just uh having uh, I dunno the name, L_C_D_ responding to fingers.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Touching the screen. Something likeProject Manager: Tactile or something, yeah.User Interface: {disfmarker} Mm like tactile.Marketing: Mm, touch screen.Project Manager: Touch screen, yeah.User Interface: So {disfmarker} But for now if we don't want to use such kind of screens I I think we using a a smaller screen is better,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: because {disfmarker}Project Manager: The problem is we have a limit in a month of time, so we cannot do something very new.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So let's go for a small L_C_D_.Marketing: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay, so Yeah, so so just just give me the the the five by ten numbers that you find the best and send it meUser Interface: A smaller sProject Manager: Yeah okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So, five by s ten.Industrial Designer: and I will work it out.Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um so what about, so the case we talked about. Um something easy to use, you said something easy to use but how does that fit in a fashion way, like with fruit and vegetable, and about the colour and logo of the

Summarize the discussion about the size of the device when discussing the overall requirements.

The group members firstly made sure how big the seven-inch TFT screen was in reality. And they thought that the remote control should not be too big or too small, it should be fit in hands. Then they discussed how the screen and buttons could be reasonably put on the remote control.

I've I s I think the easiest thing would be to to have a smaller L_C_D_, if it's possible.Industrial Designer: Well fi five to ten it would be feasible.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Okay, so five to ten, I I think it's it's feasible.Project Manager: Okay. So we are agree with a smallIndustrial Designer: I'll make it.User Interface: {gap} Or uh or I don't knowProject Manager: L_C_D_. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Fo Five by ten.User Interface: but I don't want to now invent something new, because we didn't discuss about it. So using some L_C_D_s we can touch, so we can remove uh keys and just uh having uh, I dunno the name, L_C_D_ responding to fingers.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Touching the screen. Something likeProject Manager: Tactile or something, yeah.User Interface: {disfmarker} Mm like tactile.Marketing: Mm, touch screen.Project Manager: Touch screen, yeah.User Interface: So {disfmarker} But for now if we don't want to use such kind of screens I I think we using a a smaller screen is better,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: because {disfmarker}Project Manager: The problem is we have a limit in a month of time, so we cannot do something very new.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So let's go for a small L_C_D_.Marketing: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay, so Yeah, so so just just give me the the the five by ten numbers that you find the best and send it meUser Interface: A smaller sProject Manager: Yeah okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So, five by s ten.Industrial Designer: and I will work it out.Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um so what about, so the case we talked about. Um something easy to use, you said something easy to use but how does that fit in a fashion way, like with fruit and vegetable, and about the colour and logo of the we're gonna use this T_F_T_ screenProject Manager: No, I don't think it's seven by seven,Industrial Designer: Yeah but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it's seven {disfmarker} the diagonal is seven.Industrial Designer: To be honest, I was {disfmarker}Project Manager: Usually when they say seven inch I think it's the diagonal.User Interface: Yeah yes {gap}.Marketing: But I mean even even that is like this big.Project Manager: Yeah. {vocalsound} I dunno I dun I dun One each {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: . But, yeah, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah, honestly speaking I was thinking that it was seven centimetres initially,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it's seven inches. But I I think we can we can cut it.Marketing: You can cut the T_F_T_ screen. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Let's go. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, no no problem,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because because because then the size of the graphic card will be one fourth.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So let's cut the T_F_T_.Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but no problem to to me to cut the screen.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Okay, so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So so for the same price we have four screens now {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: These technical engineers, huh.Marketing: So, what's the size of the deviceIndustrial Designer: Ah well this is like this is almost nothing. Seven to seven to at least well some three millimetres or something.Marketing: Even from my perspective seven t seven centimetres by seven centimetres is still {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but we wanted the big buttons and stuff like that, you know.Marketing: Is it {disfmarker} Can you hold that, orIndustrial Designer: Because if it's t too small we can we can lose it, at home, you know.Project Manager: {vocalsound} What user wants. He wants a small remote control, or Uh uh with big buttons.User Interface: Uh.Industrial Designer: I thought fanciness first and then two ti you know, half as important as that is technology technology,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and half important as technology is easy to use. So.Project Manager: {gap} So, Hamed, can you {gap}.User Interface: Yeah. The second one. Could you please show the presentation number three.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: I think the biggest struggle will be the easy to use feature.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um. NumberIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} We'll see.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Three.User Interface: Three.Project Manager: This one {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes. {gap} Just Could you please check if it is the first one or the second. Uh, n n no, it's the first one. The second one.Project Manager: So it's not this one.User Interface: Uh yeah. Okay. {gap} Okay. So I am going to talk about {disfmarker} a little bit about how this remote control should be appear to be more easy to use. I think uh I think the feature easy to use is more important than being fancy, but okay, we can discuss about it uh later. Um {vocalsound} generally, generally uh this remote control uh uh should be should be something, in my opinion, uh the first feature is just to be easy to use. So, the more frequent buttons should be larger, they should be placed in a good position uh uh inside the remote control. And uh s uh I can conclude like this, that we shouldn't need to learn how to use it. It should be {disfmarker} we shouldn't need to es open a a t book and uh start reading and uh learning how to use this uh this uh remote control. {vocalsound} Okay. So what I found out that uh as I said uh I think it's better to put uh more frequent uh uh uh ke uh buttons Project Manager: Hello, uh this meeting we are it's fo should be focused on the conceptual design of the remote control.Marketing: Hello.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Hello.Project Manager: Um the goal of this meeting is to reach a decision at the end on the concept and I think the last time we talked about an a lot and we had a rough idea of what is going to be, but uh in th at the end of this meeting we have to to reach a decision. So, uh we will have again three presentation, from all of you, and uh I hope it will be fast because I would like to have time to for long discussion and and decisions. So, who wants to start Okay.User Interface: I sMarketing: Okay.User Interface: No, no, you you can start.Project Manager: So start, uhMarketing: Okay, I'll start. Can you open my presentation,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: please.Project Manager: Uh. {gap}Marketing: I'm number four.Project Manager: This oneMarketing: Trend. Yep. Can you pass the mouse, please. {vocalsound} Oh okay, that's fine.Project Manager: Turn.Marketing: Okay. Um so basically I just want to presented to you {disfmarker} present to you some recent results we've had from um looking at uh um some remote control market research and some fashion trends around the world. Um the fashion trends we got from talking to our our contacts in the fashion industry based in Paris and Milan. {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} so f from our market research basically we've come to the conclusion that a fancy look and feel, um as opposed to a functional look and feel, is our number one priority. Um fancy is is is is the, you know, highest priority.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Marketing: Secondly um that our remote control needs to be techn technologically innovative. Um so this is that it it should fit in the hand or something.Marketing: Yeah, a small c control that they can hold in hand.Project Manager: It's difficult.User Interface: Yes.Project Manager: {vocalsound} A smIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: But is something that's seven centimetres square e easy to holdUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: W I I think so. I if the roller buttons are on the side you don't have to catch it like that, but just like this, and you know follow follow {disfmarker} Well, that's that's no task for me, but well seven to seven at least yeah,Project Manager: {vocalsound} So maybe you can finish your presentation,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and afterwards we will discuss about all this.Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker} Oh, okay.User Interface: Maybe this {gap}.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: Okay thanks {gap}.Project Manager: That's it. Okay. So. {vocalsound} {gap} No. Uh, so I think we have a lot {disfmarker} We have to take decision today, so I think we have to do some work to finalise our idea and take decisions. Uh first I think energy it's a key problem because uh it depend what can we have as feature if we use only batteries, for example, or something like that. Because can we have L_C_D_ and speech recognition with battery, and it's also r related to the size of the of the devi of the deviceIndustrial Designer: Not {disfmarker} J uh just a point to the energy th things. If we use the batteries, and the additional so solar cell, then it's okay for L_ uh speech recognition and L_C_D_,Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: so no problem in energy, I think.Project Manager: So {disfmarker} Okay.Industrial Designer: But we have to use the solar cell.User Interface: So but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Otherwise not.Project Manager: but using how many batteries, for example Are are

What did the industrial designer think of solar cell when discussing energy problems

The industrial designer thought that the solar cell was necessary for speech recognition. He mentioned that the daylight was enough for recharging. And he supposed that the remote control would be in the room which was usually lightful.

we're gonna use this T_F_T_ screenProject Manager: No, I don't think it's seven by seven,Industrial Designer: Yeah but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it's seven {disfmarker} the diagonal is seven.Industrial Designer: To be honest, I was {disfmarker}Project Manager: Usually when they say seven inch I think it's the diagonal.User Interface: Yeah yes {gap}.Marketing: But I mean even even that is like this big.Project Manager: Yeah. {vocalsound} I dunno I dun I dun One each {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: . But, yeah, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah, honestly speaking I was thinking that it was seven centimetres initially,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it's seven inches. But I I think we can we can cut it.Marketing: You can cut the T_F_T_ screen. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Let's go. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, no no problem,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because because because then the size of the graphic card will be one fourth.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So let's cut the T_F_T_.Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but no problem to to me to cut the screen.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Okay, so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So so for the same price we have four screens now {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: These technical engineers, huh.Marketing: So, what's the size of the deviceIndustrial Designer: Ah well this is like this is almost nothing. Seven to seven to at least well some three millimetres or something.Marketing: Even from my perspective seven t seven centimetres by seven centimetres is still {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but we wanted the big buttons and stuff like that, you know.Marketing: Is it {disfmarker} Can you hold that, orIndustrial Designer: Because if it's t too small we can we can lose it, at home, you know.Project Manager: {vocalsound} What user wants. He wants a small remote control, or Uh uh with big buttons.User Interface: Uh.Industrial Designer: I thought fanciness first and then two ti you know, half as important as that is technology technology,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and half important as technology is easy to use. So.Project Manager: {gap} So, Hamed, can you {gap}.User Interface: Yeah. The second one. Could you please show the presentation number three.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: I think the biggest struggle will be the easy to use feature.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um. NumberIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} We'll see.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Three.User Interface: Three.Project Manager: This one {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes. {gap} Just Could you please check if it is the first one or the second. Uh, n n no, it's the first one. The second one.Project Manager: So it's not this one.User Interface: Uh yeah. Okay. {gap} Okay. So I am going to talk about {disfmarker} a little bit about how this remote control should be appear to be more easy to use. I think uh I think the feature easy to use is more important than being fancy, but okay, we can discuss about it uh later. Um {vocalsound} generally, generally uh this remote control uh uh should be should be something, in my opinion, uh the first feature is just to be easy to use. So, the more frequent buttons should be larger, they should be placed in a good position uh uh inside the remote control. And uh s uh I can conclude like this, that we shouldn't need to learn how to use it. It should be {disfmarker} we shouldn't need to es open a a t book and uh start reading and uh learning how to use this uh this uh remote control. {vocalsound} Okay. So what I found out that uh as I said uh I think it's better to put uh more frequent uh uh uh ke uh buttons Project Manager: Hello, uh this meeting we are it's fo should be focused on the conceptual design of the remote control.Marketing: Hello.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Hello.Project Manager: Um the goal of this meeting is to reach a decision at the end on the concept and I think the last time we talked about an a lot and we had a rough idea of what is going to be, but uh in th at the end of this meeting we have to to reach a decision. So, uh we will have again three presentation, from all of you, and uh I hope it will be fast because I would like to have time to for long discussion and and decisions. So, who wants to start Okay.User Interface: I sMarketing: Okay.User Interface: No, no, you you can start.Project Manager: So start, uhMarketing: Okay, I'll start. Can you open my presentation,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: please.Project Manager: Uh. {gap}Marketing: I'm number four.Project Manager: This oneMarketing: Trend. Yep. Can you pass the mouse, please. {vocalsound} Oh okay, that's fine.Project Manager: Turn.Marketing: Okay. Um so basically I just want to presented to you {disfmarker} present to you some recent results we've had from um looking at uh um some remote control market research and some fashion trends around the world. Um the fashion trends we got from talking to our our contacts in the fashion industry based in Paris and Milan. {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} so f from our market research basically we've come to the conclusion that a fancy look and feel, um as opposed to a functional look and feel, is our number one priority. Um fancy is is is is the, you know, highest priority.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Marketing: Secondly um that our remote control needs to be techn technologically innovative. Um so this is I've I s I think the easiest thing would be to to have a smaller L_C_D_, if it's possible.Industrial Designer: Well fi five to ten it would be feasible.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Okay, so five to ten, I I think it's it's feasible.Project Manager: Okay. So we are agree with a smallIndustrial Designer: I'll make it.User Interface: {gap} Or uh or I don't knowProject Manager: L_C_D_. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Fo Five by ten.User Interface: but I don't want to now invent something new, because we didn't discuss about it. So using some L_C_D_s we can touch, so we can remove uh keys and just uh having uh, I dunno the name, L_C_D_ responding to fingers.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Touching the screen. Something likeProject Manager: Tactile or something, yeah.User Interface: {disfmarker} Mm like tactile.Marketing: Mm, touch screen.Project Manager: Touch screen, yeah.User Interface: So {disfmarker} But for now if we don't want to use such kind of screens I I think we using a a smaller screen is better,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: because {disfmarker}Project Manager: The problem is we have a limit in a month of time, so we cannot do something very new.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So let's go for a small L_C_D_.Marketing: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay, so Yeah, so so just just give me the the the five by ten numbers that you find the best and send it meUser Interface: A smaller sProject Manager: Yeah okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So, five by s ten.Industrial Designer: and I will work it out.Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um so what about, so the case we talked about. Um something easy to use, you said something easy to use but how does that fit in a fashion way, like with fruit and vegetable, and about the colour and logo of the the {disfmarker} this will be like the overall scheme or overall requirements from the engineering point of view. Uh first thing is uh this will be the overall shape, no uh I'm not speaking about the real shape of the device, but the shape of the inside of the device. So there will be some circuit uh for the power. So, say power circuit here. Uh the main energy will be taken from batteries that we can uh uh {disfmarker} And if we decide to use the speech recognition stuff there, we must use additional source of energy, which I found the best is to use the solar cells which can which can uh supply everything. I was computing all the all the things related to the speech recognition, and it's okay to use just uh two batteries and solar cells, so. So no problem. There can be also solar cell. Uh the main board with all the circuits will take at least seven to seven centimetres, so this is my like hard requirement for the guys from the design.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So at least seven to seven. It depends where you put your screen, because the screen is uh seven inch, so it depends on you where where you put it.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It doesn't matter. Um it's just one cord from from the main board to the screen which can be elsewhere. So this will be T_F_T_. And on the main board we have the um interface to the microphone, which is somewhere, say here. Interface to the microphone. Then the graphical card uh for the T_F_T_ and the third unit is the I_R_. The good news is that we can uh we decided to use the infra-red unit because our company has also developed the chip

Summarize the discussion about the size and shape of the remote control.

The user interface said that no matter large or small, taking in hand easily was the most important thing. The project manager also wanted the shape to be fashionable. Considering that the colour of their company was yellow, they decided to make the shape of the remote control like a banana.

we're gonna use this T_F_T_ screenProject Manager: No, I don't think it's seven by seven,Industrial Designer: Yeah but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it's seven {disfmarker} the diagonal is seven.Industrial Designer: To be honest, I was {disfmarker}Project Manager: Usually when they say seven inch I think it's the diagonal.User Interface: Yeah yes {gap}.Marketing: But I mean even even that is like this big.Project Manager: Yeah. {vocalsound} I dunno I dun I dun One each {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: . But, yeah, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah, honestly speaking I was thinking that it was seven centimetres initially,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it's seven inches. But I I think we can we can cut it.Marketing: You can cut the T_F_T_ screen. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Let's go. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, no no problem,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because because because then the size of the graphic card will be one fourth.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So let's cut the T_F_T_.Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but no problem to to me to cut the screen.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Okay, so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So so for the same price we have four screens now {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: These technical engineers, huh.Marketing: So, what's the size of the deviceIndustrial Designer: Ah well this is like this is almost nothing. Seven to seven to at least well some three millimetres or something.Marketing: Even from my perspective seven t seven centimetres by seven centimetres is still {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but we wanted the big buttons and stuff like that, you know.Marketing: Is it {disfmarker} Can you hold that, orIndustrial Designer: Because if it's t too small we can we can lose it, at home, you know.Project Manager: {vocalsound} What user wants. He wants a small remote control, or Uh uh with big buttons.User Interface: Uh.Industrial Designer: I thought fanciness first and then two ti you know, half as important as that is technology technology,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and half important as technology is easy to use. So.Project Manager: {gap} So, Hamed, can you {gap}.User Interface: Yeah. The second one. Could you please show the presentation number three.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: I think the biggest struggle will be the easy to use feature.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um. NumberIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} We'll see.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Three.User Interface: Three.Project Manager: This one {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes. {gap} Just Could you please check if it is the first one or the second. Uh, n n no, it's the first one. The second one.Project Manager: So it's not this one.User Interface: Uh yeah. Okay. {gap} Okay. So I am going to talk about {disfmarker} a little bit about how this remote control should be appear to be more easy to use. I think uh I think the feature easy to use is more important than being fancy, but okay, we can discuss about it uh later. Um {vocalsound} generally, generally uh this remote control uh uh should be should be something, in my opinion, uh the first feature is just to be easy to use. So, the more frequent buttons should be larger, they should be placed in a good position uh uh inside the remote control. And uh s uh I can conclude like this, that we shouldn't need to learn how to use it. It should be {disfmarker} we shouldn't need to es open a a t book and uh start reading and uh learning how to use this uh this uh remote control. {vocalsound} Okay. So what I found out that uh as I said uh I think it's better to put uh more frequent uh uh uh ke uh buttons the {disfmarker} this will be like the overall scheme or overall requirements from the engineering point of view. Uh first thing is uh this will be the overall shape, no uh I'm not speaking about the real shape of the device, but the shape of the inside of the device. So there will be some circuit uh for the power. So, say power circuit here. Uh the main energy will be taken from batteries that we can uh uh {disfmarker} And if we decide to use the speech recognition stuff there, we must use additional source of energy, which I found the best is to use the solar cells which can which can uh supply everything. I was computing all the all the things related to the speech recognition, and it's okay to use just uh two batteries and solar cells, so. So no problem. There can be also solar cell. Uh the main board with all the circuits will take at least seven to seven centimetres, so this is my like hard requirement for the guys from the design.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So at least seven to seven. It depends where you put your screen, because the screen is uh seven inch, so it depends on you where where you put it.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It doesn't matter. Um it's just one cord from from the main board to the screen which can be elsewhere. So this will be T_F_T_. And on the main board we have the um interface to the microphone, which is somewhere, say here. Interface to the microphone. Then the graphical card uh for the T_F_T_ and the third unit is the I_R_. The good news is that we can uh we decided to use the infra-red unit because our company has also developed the chip I've I s I think the easiest thing would be to to have a smaller L_C_D_, if it's possible.Industrial Designer: Well fi five to ten it would be feasible.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Okay, so five to ten, I I think it's it's feasible.Project Manager: Okay. So we are agree with a smallIndustrial Designer: I'll make it.User Interface: {gap} Or uh or I don't knowProject Manager: L_C_D_. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Fo Five by ten.User Interface: but I don't want to now invent something new, because we didn't discuss about it. So using some L_C_D_s we can touch, so we can remove uh keys and just uh having uh, I dunno the name, L_C_D_ responding to fingers.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Touching the screen. Something likeProject Manager: Tactile or something, yeah.User Interface: {disfmarker} Mm like tactile.Marketing: Mm, touch screen.Project Manager: Touch screen, yeah.User Interface: So {disfmarker} But for now if we don't want to use such kind of screens I I think we using a a smaller screen is better,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: because {disfmarker}Project Manager: The problem is we have a limit in a month of time, so we cannot do something very new.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So let's go for a small L_C_D_.Marketing: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay, so Yeah, so so just just give me the the the five by ten numbers that you find the best and send it meUser Interface: A smaller sProject Manager: Yeah okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So, five by s ten.Industrial Designer: and I will work it out.Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um so what about, so the case we talked about. Um something easy to use, you said something easy to use but how does that fit in a fashion way, like with fruit and vegetable, and about the colour and logo of the Project Manager: Hello, uh this meeting we are it's fo should be focused on the conceptual design of the remote control.Marketing: Hello.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Hello.Project Manager: Um the goal of this meeting is to reach a decision at the end on the concept and I think the last time we talked about an a lot and we had a rough idea of what is going to be, but uh in th at the end of this meeting we have to to reach a decision. So, uh we will have again three presentation, from all of you, and uh I hope it will be fast because I would like to have time to for long discussion and and decisions. So, who wants to start Okay.User Interface: I sMarketing: Okay.User Interface: No, no, you you can start.Project Manager: So start, uhMarketing: Okay, I'll start. Can you open my presentation,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: please.Project Manager: Uh. {gap}Marketing: I'm number four.Project Manager: This oneMarketing: Trend. Yep. Can you pass the mouse, please. {vocalsound} Oh okay, that's fine.Project Manager: Turn.Marketing: Okay. Um so basically I just want to presented to you {disfmarker} present to you some recent results we've had from um looking at uh um some remote control market research and some fashion trends around the world. Um the fashion trends we got from talking to our our contacts in the fashion industry based in Paris and Milan. {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} so f from our market research basically we've come to the conclusion that a fancy look and feel, um as opposed to a functional look and feel, is our number one priority. Um fancy is is is is the, you know, highest priority.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Marketing: Secondly um that our remote control needs to be techn technologically innovative. Um so this is

Summarize the discussion about the first layer when talking about detailed shape design.

The group members thought that the first layer would be spongy. It might be magnetic and would be like a plastic cover covering some buttons or USB interface. Users could open this cover like peeling a banana.

Project Manager: Hello, uh this meeting we are it's fo should be focused on the conceptual design of the remote control.Marketing: Hello.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Hello.Project Manager: Um the goal of this meeting is to reach a decision at the end on the concept and I think the last time we talked about an a lot and we had a rough idea of what is going to be, but uh in th at the end of this meeting we have to to reach a decision. So, uh we will have again three presentation, from all of you, and uh I hope it will be fast because I would like to have time to for long discussion and and decisions. So, who wants to start Okay.User Interface: I sMarketing: Okay.User Interface: No, no, you you can start.Project Manager: So start, uhMarketing: Okay, I'll start. Can you open my presentation,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: please.Project Manager: Uh. {gap}Marketing: I'm number four.Project Manager: This oneMarketing: Trend. Yep. Can you pass the mouse, please. {vocalsound} Oh okay, that's fine.Project Manager: Turn.Marketing: Okay. Um so basically I just want to presented to you {disfmarker} present to you some recent results we've had from um looking at uh um some remote control market research and some fashion trends around the world. Um the fashion trends we got from talking to our our contacts in the fashion industry based in Paris and Milan. {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} so f from our market research basically we've come to the conclusion that a fancy look and feel, um as opposed to a functional look and feel, is our number one priority. Um fancy is is is is the, you know, highest priority.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Marketing: Secondly um that our remote control needs to be techn technologically innovative. Um so this is I've I s I think the easiest thing would be to to have a smaller L_C_D_, if it's possible.Industrial Designer: Well fi five to ten it would be feasible.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Okay, so five to ten, I I think it's it's feasible.Project Manager: Okay. So we are agree with a smallIndustrial Designer: I'll make it.User Interface: {gap} Or uh or I don't knowProject Manager: L_C_D_. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Fo Five by ten.User Interface: but I don't want to now invent something new, because we didn't discuss about it. So using some L_C_D_s we can touch, so we can remove uh keys and just uh having uh, I dunno the name, L_C_D_ responding to fingers.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Touching the screen. Something likeProject Manager: Tactile or something, yeah.User Interface: {disfmarker} Mm like tactile.Marketing: Mm, touch screen.Project Manager: Touch screen, yeah.User Interface: So {disfmarker} But for now if we don't want to use such kind of screens I I think we using a a smaller screen is better,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: because {disfmarker}Project Manager: The problem is we have a limit in a month of time, so we cannot do something very new.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So let's go for a small L_C_D_.Marketing: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay, so Yeah, so so just just give me the the the five by ten numbers that you find the best and send it meUser Interface: A smaller sProject Manager: Yeah okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So, five by s ten.Industrial Designer: and I will work it out.Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um so what about, so the case we talked about. Um something easy to use, you said something easy to use but how does that fit in a fashion way, like with fruit and vegetable, and about the colour and logo of the fanciness first and then two ti you know, half as important as that is technology technology,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: and half important as technology is easy to use. So.Project Manager: {gap} So, Hamed, can you {gap}.User Interface: Yeah. The second one. Could you please show the presentation number three.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: I think the biggest struggle will be the easy to use feature.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um. NumberIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} We'll see.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Three.User Interface: Three.Project Manager: This one {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes. {gap} Just Could you please check if it is the first one or the second. Uh, n n no, it's the first one. The second one.Project Manager: So it's not this one.User Interface: Uh yeah. Okay. {gap} Okay. So I am going to talk about {disfmarker} a little bit about how this remote control should be appear to be more easy to use. I think uh I think the feature easy to use is more important than being fancy, but okay, we can discuss about it uh later. Um {vocalsound} generally, generally uh this remote control uh uh should be should be something, in my opinion, uh the first feature is just to be easy to use. So, the more frequent buttons should be larger, they should be placed in a good position uh uh inside the remote control. And uh s uh I can conclude like this, that we shouldn't need to learn how to use it. It should be {disfmarker} we shouldn't need to es open a a t book and uh start reading and uh learning how to use this uh this uh remote control. {vocalsound} Okay. So what I found out that uh as I said uh I think it's better to put uh more frequent uh uh uh ke uh buttons we're gonna use this T_F_T_ screenProject Manager: No, I don't think it's seven by seven,Industrial Designer: Yeah but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it's seven {disfmarker} the diagonal is seven.Industrial Designer: To be honest, I was {disfmarker}Project Manager: Usually when they say seven inch I think it's the diagonal.User Interface: Yeah yes {gap}.Marketing: But I mean even even that is like this big.Project Manager: Yeah. {vocalsound} I dunno I dun I dun One each {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: . But, yeah, {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah, honestly speaking I was thinking that it was seven centimetres initially,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it's seven inches. But I I think we can we can cut it.Marketing: You can cut the T_F_T_ screen. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Let's go. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, no no problem,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because because because then the size of the graphic card will be one fourth.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So let's cut the T_F_T_.Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but no problem to to me to cut the screen.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Okay, so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So so for the same price we have four screens now {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: These technical engineers, huh.Marketing: So, what's the size of the deviceIndustrial Designer: Ah well this is like this is almost nothing. Seven to seven to at least well some three millimetres or something.Marketing: Even from my perspective seven t seven centimetres by seven centimetres is still {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, but we wanted the big buttons and stuff like that, you know.Marketing: Is it {disfmarker} Can you hold that, orIndustrial Designer: Because if it's t too small we can we can lose it, at home, you know.Project Manager: {vocalsound} What user wants. He wants a small remote control, or Uh uh with big buttons.User Interface: Uh.Industrial Designer: I thought the {disfmarker} this will be like the overall scheme or overall requirements from the engineering point of view. Uh first thing is uh this will be the overall shape, no uh I'm not speaking about the real shape of the device, but the shape of the inside of the device. So there will be some circuit uh for the power. So, say power circuit here. Uh the main energy will be taken from batteries that we can uh uh {disfmarker} And if we decide to use the speech recognition stuff there, we must use additional source of energy, which I found the best is to use the solar cells which can which can uh supply everything. I was computing all the all the things related to the speech recognition, and it's okay to use just uh two batteries and solar cells, so. So no problem. There can be also solar cell. Uh the main board with all the circuits will take at least seven to seven centimetres, so this is my like hard requirement for the guys from the design.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So at least seven to seven. It depends where you put your screen, because the screen is uh seven inch, so it depends on you where where you put it.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It doesn't matter. Um it's just one cord from from the main board to the screen which can be elsewhere. So this will be T_F_T_. And on the main board we have the um interface to the microphone, which is somewhere, say here. Interface to the microphone. Then the graphical card uh for the T_F_T_ and the third unit is the I_R_. The good news is that we can uh we decided to use the infra-red unit because our company has also developed the chip

Summarize the whole meeting.

The meeting was mainly about the conceptual design of the remote control. Firstly, marketing introduced market research and fashion trends around the world. While the user interface emphasized that easy to use was more important. Then the industrial designer talked about the overall requirements from the engineering point of view, including the size of the device and source of energy. The group members spent time figuring out the real size of the TFT screen and energy problem. After that, they discussed the shape of the remote control and decided to make it like a banana. Based on this shape, they talked about the detailed design of the appearance and user interface.

public. Is that something that you would be prepared to make a recommendation aroundDr Frank Atherton: Well, it's certainly a fascinating area and one that I think has a lot of potential. It goes--. You're right to raise it in the context of schools, and I can understand why this committee would, but I think it goes beyond that, actually, into all developments in the public sector and how they're developed and whether we're building health into our environment, which perhaps is your starting point. One of the things that I was really pleased to see in terms of the Public Health (Wales) Act 2017 that was passed a couple of years ago was the use of health impact assessment as a tool, and we're still working on how that will inform policy and how that will be applied in issues such as policy decisions through Government, but also in more downstream issues about how we create the public infrastructure that the public can and should be using. And so I would like to see the use of health impact assessments to a much greater degree to inform those kinds of decisions. If you apply that kind of lens and you take the point, which is inherent in your question, I think, that schools are not just for kids, they're for communities, then you would--it would lead you to a conclusion that you would perhaps design and build them in a different way. So, on a personal basis, I would certainly support your view that we should be looking to use the sports environment in schools in the same way as we use leisure centres. There are all kinds of barriers in there, and I understand all of that, and it's not really my field, exactly as you say, but, been asked to give a deal of consideration to, and it hasn't really been discussed, I don't believe, in the context of development of the strategy. If there is a specific point around that that the committee would like to make in terms of a response into the consultation, which I presume you'll be making, then we'd be happy to consider that. As to healthy preschools, I don't know, Nathan may have some view on that. I've not been closely involved with the work. We have standards and we perhaps need to think about how we tighten those standards and how we--enforce isn't the right word, but how we implement and make sure that those standards are properly implemented, because you're absolutely right to say that habits are developed early in life. That's in the preschool; it's also in the home of course, and then later in the school. So, we do need to look at all of those as settings and are there more things we can do within those settings to drive healthier behaviours--that's exactly why we need the consultation.Nathan Cook: But I would say, through that scheme as well, we've really got a really good bank of preschools that are actually doing some really great work in this area as well. So, I think the more we can understand the successes that some of those environments are having--you know, how we can roll those out and work across other settings to create that wider impact as well is going to be really important.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Thank you. What I'm thinking about is expectations at that level will be expectations at a slightly older level, which will be contained within the foundation phase. And while you're quite right--obviously, parents have a role in this, or families--there will to legislate on. The timing of that will have to be subject to other pressures, and I come back to the point that legislation, of course, is one of the tools that we've got--we need to deploy them all.Dawn Bowden AM: Sure, I understand that, that you could do other things. I know--. We've heard from the Government, on other calls for legislation, that the programme's very tight, certainly for this term, so I was just wondering whether we might get that in, but okay. If I turn now to the planning system--and this might not be something that you have great deal of knowledge of; I'd just welcome your view on this, because, when we discussed with stakeholders, we talked about whether the planning system, for instance, could be used to, as an example, restrict hot food takeaways around schools and so on. Would that be a measure that you would support, something like thatDr Frank Atherton: I think it's definitely something we want to look at and, of course, that question is asked in the consultation, so we would like to know people's views on that. It's an interesting one. I think there is a question--a really important question--about how we can use the planning system more effectively. I've discussed with Nathan on a number of occasions, with planning colleagues in Welsh Government and in local authorities, about the art of the possible, let's say. There may be things that we could think about and we want to get those ideas through the consultation. The specific question around takeaways, particularly takeaways near schools, is often asked. I was very interested to see, up in the north-east, some time ago, that one of the local authorities up there did put a moratorium on the opening of new fast-food venues become overweight adults, we don't know what proportion of them between school entry and later teenage years--what those changes are. So, it would help us to have some better understanding, which would help to direct some of our initiatives. I'd be generally supportive of the principle. We'll wait and see what comes out in the consultation, and it's something that we need to give thought to, but we do have to trade off the additionality of what the information would give us with the cost of doing that, of course.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on healthy environments from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. In the draft plan, some of the measures in there suggest legislating for restricting price promotions and banning energy drinks, and that sort of thing. Do you think that, if we go down that road, there's going to be time within this Assembly to introduce such legislation And, if not, what do you think might be the timescale for such legislationDr Frank Atherton: It may well be that there are things in Wales that we might wish to legislate on, and you've mentioned two of them, and they're good examples. We would, obviously, need to undertake quite detailed consultation on those and, in a way, we need to mirror what's happening in England and in Scotland to some degree around the consultations they're having on energy drinks. We also need to influence the issues that are not devolved to us and we seek to do that. As to your question of legislative time, I'm not really in a position to answer that. What I could say is that legislation may well be one of the outcomes of the consultation. There may well be things that we wish to choose What assessment have you made of how that money is being spent in other UK nations Because my understanding is that the money is being used in other UK nations to directly impact on obesity. Have you given any consideration to-- As I understand it, that money now is being dispersed around a plethora of programmes, including the transformation programme, and what I found very odd, really, was vaccination, which is surely the core business of the NHS. Have you got any view on thatDr Frank Atherton: I'm not sure I understand your point, Chair, in terms of the link between the consequentials from--. Are you talking about the consequentials from the sugar levy or are you talking about--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, because in other nations, it is being used to directly impact on initiatives to tackle obesity, whereas, we've kind of put it here in Wales into the general pot and it's being used to fund a plethora of different things.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, that cuts to what I was talking about. My preference--it's a personal view--is that hypothecation doesn't really help us too much. I mean, what we need to look at is whether the programmes, the sorts of programmes that are being funded in England, or indeed in Scotland, are working effectively, and if they are, are they being delivered here in Wales We have looked very carefully at the plans that England and Scotland have for tackling obesity and overweight, and we've made a comparison with what we're doing in Wales, and our ambition in Wales is to go further than those nations, in many ways. But I come back to the point that just linking the hypothecation of a relatively small amount of resource is likely to be less impactful than asking a question of

Summarize the discussion about evaluation, investment and responsibility of the draft strategy.

There was no exact evaluation but Dr Frank Atherton did think they should have a strong one. The draft strategy also made an estimate in investment which would be PS8 million to PS10 million a year. Investment would be spent on different sources and they should pay more attention to extending them. Speaking of leadership, Dr Frank Atherton agreed to its importance and made his own opinion that local leadership was essential and they should also have national oversight at the same time.

What assessment have you made of how that money is being spent in other UK nations Because my understanding is that the money is being used in other UK nations to directly impact on obesity. Have you given any consideration to-- As I understand it, that money now is being dispersed around a plethora of programmes, including the transformation programme, and what I found very odd, really, was vaccination, which is surely the core business of the NHS. Have you got any view on thatDr Frank Atherton: I'm not sure I understand your point, Chair, in terms of the link between the consequentials from--. Are you talking about the consequentials from the sugar levy or are you talking about--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, because in other nations, it is being used to directly impact on initiatives to tackle obesity, whereas, we've kind of put it here in Wales into the general pot and it's being used to fund a plethora of different things.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, that cuts to what I was talking about. My preference--it's a personal view--is that hypothecation doesn't really help us too much. I mean, what we need to look at is whether the programmes, the sorts of programmes that are being funded in England, or indeed in Scotland, are working effectively, and if they are, are they being delivered here in Wales We have looked very carefully at the plans that England and Scotland have for tackling obesity and overweight, and we've made a comparison with what we're doing in Wales, and our ambition in Wales is to go further than those nations, in many ways. But I come back to the point that just linking the hypothecation of a relatively small amount of resource is likely to be less impactful than asking a question of overweight children go on to become overweight adults, unfortunately, and that brings all the consequences of multiple disease issues--diabetes is often cited--cancer risk et cetera. So, we have to focus on children, and, in fact, during the consultation, we've been very clear that we need to engage with children and young people as well. Perhaps we'll get into that at some point, Chair, but, yes, I can give you that assurance.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. What my follow-up question, really, is: can you just tell us what kind of engagement you've had with children and young people to inform the draft strategyDr Frank Atherton: Well, Nathan may be able to influence some of the detail, but in broad terms, we have discussed with young people in a number of fora. In fact, I was delighted that we had a young person, Evie Morgan, a schoolgirl from mid Wales, who came to the joint launch on the consultation. She met the Minister there and gave a very good personal account of her views on obesity and overweight. We've been visiting a number of schools during the consultation process. I'm visiting a school, either this week or next week, at Treorchy, to talk with teachers and young people there. Obviously, we're hopeful that schools and young people will contribute to the consultation as well. So, we've had quite good input, I would say, from children and young people. There is always more we can do we and we want to hear those voices.Nathan Cook: I was going to say, we've also had a session with youth ambassadors as well, and what we've actually produced for the consultation is not just the children and young people's version, but also a toolkit in terms of getting schools really engaged and involved in terms to respond to this issue. What we're seeing across the NHS is a gradual transformation in primary care so that primary care is no longer about going to see your GP, it's about going to see a practice where you have a range of health professionals. Would I like to see more dietetic support, for example, in that setting Absolutely I would. I think we need to think in terms of that pathway that we were talking about earlier, about access to that kind of advice and support, which can head off people getting into problems and kids getting into problems with weight issues. So, that question of redesign of the pathway really speaks to, I think, your point about,'Well, where do people go when they have problems with their weight'That's true for adults and it's true for children as well.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions from Members No. Okay. Well, can I thank you both very much for your attendance It's been a really productive session. We appreciate your time. You will be sent a transcript to check for accuracy in due course, but thank you again.Dr Frank Atherton: We'll do that. Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the committee, because getting some input into the consultation from children's perspectives, this would be one of the routes we would absolutely welcome. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee on CAMHS tier 4 provision. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Health and Social Services also on CAMHS in-patient provision. Paper to note 3 is a letter from the Children Commissioner for Wales on tier 4 CAMHS to look at how their joint delivery on physical activity can be taken forward more efficiently. So, one of the things they are looking at is obviously the schools programmes they do through eco-schools, the Welsh network of healthy schools and the sports programme to really think about that physical activity and how we can have better join up in terms of the programmes that we're already delivering as well.Hefin David AM: With that in mind, I'm going to confess to you, chief medical officer, I did anything in school I could to avoid physical education lessons. I hated it. I didn't feel engaged with it. Yet, two weeks ago, I played for the Assembly rugby team--I wanted to get that in. The school sports survey, that would suggest that we're still not hitting those targets with children. How can we get children more engaged with physical education in ways that-- I felt completely alienated in school.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, you're right, and many people go through that same journey and come to physical activity later in life, and that's great if they do that. The sad reality is that many people don't, and we also know that there are issues around the dropping off, particularly for girls, of physical activity towards the teenage years. So, there are specific moments that we need to understand. We do have a lot of information about these kinds of things. Public Health Wales is very good at collating the information. We do need to turn that into programmes. I mean, at the heart of it, it's about making sports and physical activity enjoyable and attractive to people. Sometimes that's easier, I sense, for boys than for girls, but we need to tailor things to different audiences.Hefin David AM: Yes, that's the trick, isn't plan's objectivesDr Frank Atherton: Well, of course, our main data source is the child measurement programme, which collects information on children entering school aged four or five. That's our main source of information. If we look at that data, it shows us--. Well, I'm sure you're familiar with the statistics, but it'll be just under a third of children at that age who are overweight or obese--Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Could I just ask--sorry to interrupt--how up to date is thatDr Frank Atherton: The last survey was just last year.Nathan Cook: The data was published last week.Dr Frank Atherton: Yes, the lastest data was out last week.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: It is pretty up to date.Dr Frank Atherton: So, it's pretty up to date, and what it shows--. It's not getting radically worse--there's always statistical variation in these things--but it's not getting any better. And, for the first time last year, we did look at the question not just of children who were overweight or obese, but we actually singled out the proportion who are obese, severely obese. So we have a figure for that for the first time, which is about 12 per cent, which is quite shocking, in a way.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: It is shocking.Dr Frank Atherton: So, that's our main source of information. Does that answer your questionJanet Finch-Saunders AM: Yes, but how will any gaps in your data be addressedDr Frank Atherton: Well, one of the questions that are often asked is: could we measure more on a longitudinal basis By that I mean in England, for example, children are measured at school entry and then again at year 11--at age 11 or 12. , that kind of age group. And so you do have a longitudinal view over time of what's happening to children. I think that

What did Dr Frank Atherton think of having a target

Having a target is more of its deliverability than just having it according to Dr Frank Atherton. Since there had been not that successful examples, Dr Frank Atherton considered that they must balance deliverability with challenge. Also, Dr Frank Atherton thought a target was one tool in the box that they could use, but moreover, an evaluation which could help them know where they are was very needed. At the same time, there was still a lot to achieve.

overweight children go on to become overweight adults, unfortunately, and that brings all the consequences of multiple disease issues--diabetes is often cited--cancer risk et cetera. So, we have to focus on children, and, in fact, during the consultation, we've been very clear that we need to engage with children and young people as well. Perhaps we'll get into that at some point, Chair, but, yes, I can give you that assurance.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. What my follow-up question, really, is: can you just tell us what kind of engagement you've had with children and young people to inform the draft strategyDr Frank Atherton: Well, Nathan may be able to influence some of the detail, but in broad terms, we have discussed with young people in a number of fora. In fact, I was delighted that we had a young person, Evie Morgan, a schoolgirl from mid Wales, who came to the joint launch on the consultation. She met the Minister there and gave a very good personal account of her views on obesity and overweight. We've been visiting a number of schools during the consultation process. I'm visiting a school, either this week or next week, at Treorchy, to talk with teachers and young people there. Obviously, we're hopeful that schools and young people will contribute to the consultation as well. So, we've had quite good input, I would say, from children and young people. There is always more we can do we and we want to hear those voices.Nathan Cook: I was going to say, we've also had a session with youth ambassadors as well, and what we've actually produced for the consultation is not just the children and young people's version, but also a toolkit in terms of getting schools really engaged and involved in terms to look at how their joint delivery on physical activity can be taken forward more efficiently. So, one of the things they are looking at is obviously the schools programmes they do through eco-schools, the Welsh network of healthy schools and the sports programme to really think about that physical activity and how we can have better join up in terms of the programmes that we're already delivering as well.Hefin David AM: With that in mind, I'm going to confess to you, chief medical officer, I did anything in school I could to avoid physical education lessons. I hated it. I didn't feel engaged with it. Yet, two weeks ago, I played for the Assembly rugby team--I wanted to get that in. The school sports survey, that would suggest that we're still not hitting those targets with children. How can we get children more engaged with physical education in ways that-- I felt completely alienated in school.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, you're right, and many people go through that same journey and come to physical activity later in life, and that's great if they do that. The sad reality is that many people don't, and we also know that there are issues around the dropping off, particularly for girls, of physical activity towards the teenage years. So, there are specific moments that we need to understand. We do have a lot of information about these kinds of things. Public Health Wales is very good at collating the information. We do need to turn that into programmes. I mean, at the heart of it, it's about making sports and physical activity enjoyable and attractive to people. Sometimes that's easier, I sense, for boys than for girls, but we need to tailor things to different audiences.Hefin David AM: Yes, that's the trick, isn't What assessment have you made of how that money is being spent in other UK nations Because my understanding is that the money is being used in other UK nations to directly impact on obesity. Have you given any consideration to-- As I understand it, that money now is being dispersed around a plethora of programmes, including the transformation programme, and what I found very odd, really, was vaccination, which is surely the core business of the NHS. Have you got any view on thatDr Frank Atherton: I'm not sure I understand your point, Chair, in terms of the link between the consequentials from--. Are you talking about the consequentials from the sugar levy or are you talking about--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, because in other nations, it is being used to directly impact on initiatives to tackle obesity, whereas, we've kind of put it here in Wales into the general pot and it's being used to fund a plethora of different things.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, that cuts to what I was talking about. My preference--it's a personal view--is that hypothecation doesn't really help us too much. I mean, what we need to look at is whether the programmes, the sorts of programmes that are being funded in England, or indeed in Scotland, are working effectively, and if they are, are they being delivered here in Wales We have looked very carefully at the plans that England and Scotland have for tackling obesity and overweight, and we've made a comparison with what we're doing in Wales, and our ambition in Wales is to go further than those nations, in many ways. But I come back to the point that just linking the hypothecation of a relatively small amount of resource is likely to be less impactful than asking a question of plan's objectivesDr Frank Atherton: Well, of course, our main data source is the child measurement programme, which collects information on children entering school aged four or five. That's our main source of information. If we look at that data, it shows us--. Well, I'm sure you're familiar with the statistics, but it'll be just under a third of children at that age who are overweight or obese--Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Could I just ask--sorry to interrupt--how up to date is thatDr Frank Atherton: The last survey was just last year.Nathan Cook: The data was published last week.Dr Frank Atherton: Yes, the lastest data was out last week.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: It is pretty up to date.Dr Frank Atherton: So, it's pretty up to date, and what it shows--. It's not getting radically worse--there's always statistical variation in these things--but it's not getting any better. And, for the first time last year, we did look at the question not just of children who were overweight or obese, but we actually singled out the proportion who are obese, severely obese. So we have a figure for that for the first time, which is about 12 per cent, which is quite shocking, in a way.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: It is shocking.Dr Frank Atherton: So, that's our main source of information. Does that answer your questionJanet Finch-Saunders AM: Yes, but how will any gaps in your data be addressedDr Frank Atherton: Well, one of the questions that are often asked is: could we measure more on a longitudinal basis By that I mean in England, for example, children are measured at school entry and then again at year 11--at age 11 or 12. , that kind of age group. And so you do have a longitudinal view over time of what's happening to children. I think that of the work that we want them to do to feed into this as well. So, we've already had some really good responses from a lot of youth group and schools already.Lynne Neagle AM: And you've got a structured programme, have you, to roll that out Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on leadership, and the first questions are from Sian Gwenllian.Sian Gwenllian AM: Good morning. I'll be speaking in Welsh. The Minister for health said yesterday, in answering a question from me on the Chamber floor, that you gave him advice not to have a target in terms of reducing obesity among children. Could you confirm that that's what your advice was and tell us why you don't think that a target is neededDr Frank Atherton: My advice was not that we don't need a target--we may well need a target, and that's one of the issues we need to consult on--but that the target that had been adopted in England and in Scotland to halve the prevalence of obesity in children was more aspirational than deliverable, and that if we are to choose a target in Wales, then we need to balance deliverability with challenge. We need a challenging environment. So, there is something about performance management, because I would be looking to not just the health system but the health and care system and to public services boards to think about how they're delivering on this, and I think we can use targets to that. But they are one tool in the box that I would think we could use, and part of the consultation is to ask that question--'If we are to go down a route in Wales of choosing a target, what might that look like'Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. So, to be clear,

What did Dr Frank Atherton say about investment

Investment needed to implement the plan was more about resourcing. Dr Frank Atherton said they currently did make investments in a number of areas that related to child health generally, and, of course, obesity and overweight in particular. And now, according to existing programmes, a figure of PS8 million to PS10 million a year had been bandied around as a broad kind of area of what they might need. Dr Frank Atherton also put priority in thinking about the totality of the PS7 billion they spent in health and social care and how they could divert and channel some of that towards broad prevention initiatives in general, and towards tackling being overweight and obesity in particular.

should do. There are a number of things, the sorts of programmes you've mentioned, that I think could be more effective. We're currently looking at breastfeeding because it starts before birth, actually. We know that children who are breastfed are less likely to suffer from obesity in childhood and, indeed, to go on to be obese adults. So, we do need to go further on that. We do have some programmes--Healthy Working Wales, et cetera--that need to be improved. If there are other interventions in other areas that we need to take, then we'd be delighted to hear what they are, but those are the ones that have jumped out so far.Nathan Cook: Can I just say-- One of the proposals we're looking for is, obviously, we know that during pregnancy it's a really critical time when we can actually look to work with mothers. We know from looking at some of the behaviour change that it's actually a really critical point when new mothers really start thinking about their lives, wanting the best for their child and their families. So, what we are thinking about is how we could develop some kind of approaches to that going forward. But we know our Healthy Start scheme is also a good lever for us, just in terms of how we can look to improve that kind of dietary offer at the earliest stage as well.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Finally, we know that for some families day-to-day challenges can make it difficult for them to make healthy choices, particularly for those on lower incomes and/or maybe using food banks. Could the Welsh Government take bolder action to better support low-income families to eat healthilyDr Frank Atherton: Well, you've touched on a really important point about inequalities because overweight and obesity is been asked to give a deal of consideration to, and it hasn't really been discussed, I don't believe, in the context of development of the strategy. If there is a specific point around that that the committee would like to make in terms of a response into the consultation, which I presume you'll be making, then we'd be happy to consider that. As to healthy preschools, I don't know, Nathan may have some view on that. I've not been closely involved with the work. We have standards and we perhaps need to think about how we tighten those standards and how we--enforce isn't the right word, but how we implement and make sure that those standards are properly implemented, because you're absolutely right to say that habits are developed early in life. That's in the preschool; it's also in the home of course, and then later in the school. So, we do need to look at all of those as settings and are there more things we can do within those settings to drive healthier behaviours--that's exactly why we need the consultation.Nathan Cook: But I would say, through that scheme as well, we've really got a really good bank of preschools that are actually doing some really great work in this area as well. So, I think the more we can understand the successes that some of those environments are having--you know, how we can roll those out and work across other settings to create that wider impact as well is going to be really important.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Thank you. What I'm thinking about is expectations at that level will be expectations at a slightly older level, which will be contained within the foundation phase. And while you're quite right--obviously, parents have a role in this, or families--there will to respond to this issue. What we're seeing across the NHS is a gradual transformation in primary care so that primary care is no longer about going to see your GP, it's about going to see a practice where you have a range of health professionals. Would I like to see more dietetic support, for example, in that setting Absolutely I would. I think we need to think in terms of that pathway that we were talking about earlier, about access to that kind of advice and support, which can head off people getting into problems and kids getting into problems with weight issues. So, that question of redesign of the pathway really speaks to, I think, your point about,'Well, where do people go when they have problems with their weight'That's true for adults and it's true for children as well.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions from Members No. Okay. Well, can I thank you both very much for your attendance It's been a really productive session. We appreciate your time. You will be sent a transcript to check for accuracy in due course, but thank you again.Dr Frank Atherton: We'll do that. Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the committee, because getting some input into the consultation from children's perspectives, this would be one of the routes we would absolutely welcome. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee on CAMHS tier 4 provision. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Health and Social Services also on CAMHS in-patient provision. Paper to note 3 is a letter from the Children Commissioner for Wales on tier 4 CAMHS overweight children go on to become overweight adults, unfortunately, and that brings all the consequences of multiple disease issues--diabetes is often cited--cancer risk et cetera. So, we have to focus on children, and, in fact, during the consultation, we've been very clear that we need to engage with children and young people as well. Perhaps we'll get into that at some point, Chair, but, yes, I can give you that assurance.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. What my follow-up question, really, is: can you just tell us what kind of engagement you've had with children and young people to inform the draft strategyDr Frank Atherton: Well, Nathan may be able to influence some of the detail, but in broad terms, we have discussed with young people in a number of fora. In fact, I was delighted that we had a young person, Evie Morgan, a schoolgirl from mid Wales, who came to the joint launch on the consultation. She met the Minister there and gave a very good personal account of her views on obesity and overweight. We've been visiting a number of schools during the consultation process. I'm visiting a school, either this week or next week, at Treorchy, to talk with teachers and young people there. Obviously, we're hopeful that schools and young people will contribute to the consultation as well. So, we've had quite good input, I would say, from children and young people. There is always more we can do we and we want to hear those voices.Nathan Cook: I was going to say, we've also had a session with youth ambassadors as well, and what we've actually produced for the consultation is not just the children and young people's version, but also a toolkit in terms of getting schools really engaged and involved in terms you're not ruling out that maybe we would need a target.Dr Frank Atherton: It's certainly something that we could consider in terms of the final strategy.Sian Gwenllian AM: And is that your opinion tooNathan Cook: Yes.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. Well, that is contrary to what I was told yesterday on the floor of the Chamber by the Minister, but there we go. I'm glad to hear that you're not ruling out having a target, because without a target, without something to aim for, how do we know that we're getting thereDr Frank Atherton: I think your point about evaluation is really important. Whatever we produce at the end of this process--and we're looking to produce a final strategy towards the autumn--we do need to have a strong evaluation. So, some metrics in there, it would seem, would be appropriate, but what those are, what the nature of those are, do we frame them as targets or ambitions--that's the point we need to consult on.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. And the other point, of course, is the investment. If the Government is going to be successful in terms of the aim of reducing childhood obesity, then it needs to fund and support the actions. Have you made an assessment of the level of investment needed to implement this planDr Frank Atherton: Resourcing will be important. We currently do make investments in a number of areas that relate to child health generally, and, of course, obesity and overweight in particular. So, the question of resourcing is important. Now, we can't quantify an absolute amount of resource that will be needed to deliver until we know exactly what's going to come out of the consultation and what actions we might want to deliver to a greater degree in Wales. A figure of PS8 million

Summarize the discussion about data on obesity in children and beyond and its use.

There main data source was the child measurement programme, which collected information on children entering school aged four or five, showing that under a third of children at that age are overweight or obese. Dr Frank Atherton spoke of the frequency of being asked to have a longitudinal view over time of what's happening to Children, which was obviously essential for our schools and for the system and helpful for the strategy evaluation.

overweight children go on to become overweight adults, unfortunately, and that brings all the consequences of multiple disease issues--diabetes is often cited--cancer risk et cetera. So, we have to focus on children, and, in fact, during the consultation, we've been very clear that we need to engage with children and young people as well. Perhaps we'll get into that at some point, Chair, but, yes, I can give you that assurance.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. What my follow-up question, really, is: can you just tell us what kind of engagement you've had with children and young people to inform the draft strategyDr Frank Atherton: Well, Nathan may be able to influence some of the detail, but in broad terms, we have discussed with young people in a number of fora. In fact, I was delighted that we had a young person, Evie Morgan, a schoolgirl from mid Wales, who came to the joint launch on the consultation. She met the Minister there and gave a very good personal account of her views on obesity and overweight. We've been visiting a number of schools during the consultation process. I'm visiting a school, either this week or next week, at Treorchy, to talk with teachers and young people there. Obviously, we're hopeful that schools and young people will contribute to the consultation as well. So, we've had quite good input, I would say, from children and young people. There is always more we can do we and we want to hear those voices.Nathan Cook: I was going to say, we've also had a session with youth ambassadors as well, and what we've actually produced for the consultation is not just the children and young people's version, but also a toolkit in terms of getting schools really engaged and involved in terms What assessment have you made of how that money is being spent in other UK nations Because my understanding is that the money is being used in other UK nations to directly impact on obesity. Have you given any consideration to-- As I understand it, that money now is being dispersed around a plethora of programmes, including the transformation programme, and what I found very odd, really, was vaccination, which is surely the core business of the NHS. Have you got any view on thatDr Frank Atherton: I'm not sure I understand your point, Chair, in terms of the link between the consequentials from--. Are you talking about the consequentials from the sugar levy or are you talking about--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, because in other nations, it is being used to directly impact on initiatives to tackle obesity, whereas, we've kind of put it here in Wales into the general pot and it's being used to fund a plethora of different things.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, that cuts to what I was talking about. My preference--it's a personal view--is that hypothecation doesn't really help us too much. I mean, what we need to look at is whether the programmes, the sorts of programmes that are being funded in England, or indeed in Scotland, are working effectively, and if they are, are they being delivered here in Wales We have looked very carefully at the plans that England and Scotland have for tackling obesity and overweight, and we've made a comparison with what we're doing in Wales, and our ambition in Wales is to go further than those nations, in many ways. But I come back to the point that just linking the hypothecation of a relatively small amount of resource is likely to be less impactful than asking a question of to respond to this issue. What we're seeing across the NHS is a gradual transformation in primary care so that primary care is no longer about going to see your GP, it's about going to see a practice where you have a range of health professionals. Would I like to see more dietetic support, for example, in that setting Absolutely I would. I think we need to think in terms of that pathway that we were talking about earlier, about access to that kind of advice and support, which can head off people getting into problems and kids getting into problems with weight issues. So, that question of redesign of the pathway really speaks to, I think, your point about,'Well, where do people go when they have problems with their weight'That's true for adults and it's true for children as well.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions from Members No. Okay. Well, can I thank you both very much for your attendance It's been a really productive session. We appreciate your time. You will be sent a transcript to check for accuracy in due course, but thank you again.Dr Frank Atherton: We'll do that. Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the committee, because getting some input into the consultation from children's perspectives, this would be one of the routes we would absolutely welcome. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee on CAMHS tier 4 provision. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Health and Social Services also on CAMHS in-patient provision. Paper to note 3 is a letter from the Children Commissioner for Wales on tier 4 CAMHS you're not ruling out that maybe we would need a target.Dr Frank Atherton: It's certainly something that we could consider in terms of the final strategy.Sian Gwenllian AM: And is that your opinion tooNathan Cook: Yes.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. Well, that is contrary to what I was told yesterday on the floor of the Chamber by the Minister, but there we go. I'm glad to hear that you're not ruling out having a target, because without a target, without something to aim for, how do we know that we're getting thereDr Frank Atherton: I think your point about evaluation is really important. Whatever we produce at the end of this process--and we're looking to produce a final strategy towards the autumn--we do need to have a strong evaluation. So, some metrics in there, it would seem, would be appropriate, but what those are, what the nature of those are, do we frame them as targets or ambitions--that's the point we need to consult on.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. And the other point, of course, is the investment. If the Government is going to be successful in terms of the aim of reducing childhood obesity, then it needs to fund and support the actions. Have you made an assessment of the level of investment needed to implement this planDr Frank Atherton: Resourcing will be important. We currently do make investments in a number of areas that relate to child health generally, and, of course, obesity and overweight in particular. So, the question of resourcing is important. Now, we can't quantify an absolute amount of resource that will be needed to deliver until we know exactly what's going to come out of the consultation and what actions we might want to deliver to a greater degree in Wales. A figure of PS8 million to look at how their joint delivery on physical activity can be taken forward more efficiently. So, one of the things they are looking at is obviously the schools programmes they do through eco-schools, the Welsh network of healthy schools and the sports programme to really think about that physical activity and how we can have better join up in terms of the programmes that we're already delivering as well.Hefin David AM: With that in mind, I'm going to confess to you, chief medical officer, I did anything in school I could to avoid physical education lessons. I hated it. I didn't feel engaged with it. Yet, two weeks ago, I played for the Assembly rugby team--I wanted to get that in. The school sports survey, that would suggest that we're still not hitting those targets with children. How can we get children more engaged with physical education in ways that-- I felt completely alienated in school.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, you're right, and many people go through that same journey and come to physical activity later in life, and that's great if they do that. The sad reality is that many people don't, and we also know that there are issues around the dropping off, particularly for girls, of physical activity towards the teenage years. So, there are specific moments that we need to understand. We do have a lot of information about these kinds of things. Public Health Wales is very good at collating the information. We do need to turn that into programmes. I mean, at the heart of it, it's about making sports and physical activity enjoyable and attractive to people. Sometimes that's easier, I sense, for boys than for girls, but we need to tailor things to different audiences.Hefin David AM: Yes, that's the trick, isn't

What did Dr Frank Atherton say about the data

Dr Frank Atherton first gave a very latest data showing that under a third of children at four or five are overweight or obese. The data showed that the situation was not getting radically worse but also not getting any better. They have a figure for the severely obese for the first time, which is about 12 per cent, which is quite shocking, in a way.

What assessment have you made of how that money is being spent in other UK nations Because my understanding is that the money is being used in other UK nations to directly impact on obesity. Have you given any consideration to-- As I understand it, that money now is being dispersed around a plethora of programmes, including the transformation programme, and what I found very odd, really, was vaccination, which is surely the core business of the NHS. Have you got any view on thatDr Frank Atherton: I'm not sure I understand your point, Chair, in terms of the link between the consequentials from--. Are you talking about the consequentials from the sugar levy or are you talking about--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, because in other nations, it is being used to directly impact on initiatives to tackle obesity, whereas, we've kind of put it here in Wales into the general pot and it's being used to fund a plethora of different things.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, that cuts to what I was talking about. My preference--it's a personal view--is that hypothecation doesn't really help us too much. I mean, what we need to look at is whether the programmes, the sorts of programmes that are being funded in England, or indeed in Scotland, are working effectively, and if they are, are they being delivered here in Wales We have looked very carefully at the plans that England and Scotland have for tackling obesity and overweight, and we've made a comparison with what we're doing in Wales, and our ambition in Wales is to go further than those nations, in many ways. But I come back to the point that just linking the hypothecation of a relatively small amount of resource is likely to be less impactful than asking a question of to respond to this issue. What we're seeing across the NHS is a gradual transformation in primary care so that primary care is no longer about going to see your GP, it's about going to see a practice where you have a range of health professionals. Would I like to see more dietetic support, for example, in that setting Absolutely I would. I think we need to think in terms of that pathway that we were talking about earlier, about access to that kind of advice and support, which can head off people getting into problems and kids getting into problems with weight issues. So, that question of redesign of the pathway really speaks to, I think, your point about,'Well, where do people go when they have problems with their weight'That's true for adults and it's true for children as well.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions from Members No. Okay. Well, can I thank you both very much for your attendance It's been a really productive session. We appreciate your time. You will be sent a transcript to check for accuracy in due course, but thank you again.Dr Frank Atherton: We'll do that. Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the committee, because getting some input into the consultation from children's perspectives, this would be one of the routes we would absolutely welcome. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee on CAMHS tier 4 provision. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Health and Social Services also on CAMHS in-patient provision. Paper to note 3 is a letter from the Children Commissioner for Wales on tier 4 CAMHS would be helpful to us in Wales, and it's one of the questions in the consultation about whether we should expand that. Obviously, that would have significant resource implications, not just for the funding, but also for schools and for the system to deliver it. But it's something that maybe would help us in terms of better understanding and better evaluation--the point that was made earlier.Nathan Cook: And the other data we do have is the millennium cohort study, which has been released, for 14 and 15-year-olds. That's going to be--. We're starting to think about how we can utilise some of that data, looking at that longitudinal picture around children as well, which will be really helpful.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. You've answered my next question. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Can I just ask about the child measurement programme The strategy commits to looking at whether we can have a second measurement taking place in Wales. Can you just tell us a bit more about your thinking on that and when you would see a second measurement taking place and how you would use that dataDr Frank Atherton: I touched on that just now, but personally I do think it would be helpful to have more information. It's always the case, There's always a trade-off between the cost of getting that information and the value of the information. So, the question of how it would be used would be really important. There is still a lot that we don't know. We know an awful lot about obesity and being overweight and the causes of it, but we don't really have a very clear understanding, in Wales at least, of the point at which children start to become overweight. Although we know that overweight children tend to go on to to look at how their joint delivery on physical activity can be taken forward more efficiently. So, one of the things they are looking at is obviously the schools programmes they do through eco-schools, the Welsh network of healthy schools and the sports programme to really think about that physical activity and how we can have better join up in terms of the programmes that we're already delivering as well.Hefin David AM: With that in mind, I'm going to confess to you, chief medical officer, I did anything in school I could to avoid physical education lessons. I hated it. I didn't feel engaged with it. Yet, two weeks ago, I played for the Assembly rugby team--I wanted to get that in. The school sports survey, that would suggest that we're still not hitting those targets with children. How can we get children more engaged with physical education in ways that-- I felt completely alienated in school.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, you're right, and many people go through that same journey and come to physical activity later in life, and that's great if they do that. The sad reality is that many people don't, and we also know that there are issues around the dropping off, particularly for girls, of physical activity towards the teenage years. So, there are specific moments that we need to understand. We do have a lot of information about these kinds of things. Public Health Wales is very good at collating the information. We do need to turn that into programmes. I mean, at the heart of it, it's about making sports and physical activity enjoyable and attractive to people. Sometimes that's easier, I sense, for boys than for girls, but we need to tailor things to different audiences.Hefin David AM: Yes, that's the trick, isn't of the work that we want them to do to feed into this as well. So, we've already had some really good responses from a lot of youth group and schools already.Lynne Neagle AM: And you've got a structured programme, have you, to roll that out Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on leadership, and the first questions are from Sian Gwenllian.Sian Gwenllian AM: Good morning. I'll be speaking in Welsh. The Minister for health said yesterday, in answering a question from me on the Chamber floor, that you gave him advice not to have a target in terms of reducing obesity among children. Could you confirm that that's what your advice was and tell us why you don't think that a target is neededDr Frank Atherton: My advice was not that we don't need a target--we may well need a target, and that's one of the issues we need to consult on--but that the target that had been adopted in England and in Scotland to halve the prevalence of obesity in children was more aspirational than deliverable, and that if we are to choose a target in Wales, then we need to balance deliverability with challenge. We need a challenging environment. So, there is something about performance management, because I would be looking to not just the health system but the health and care system and to public services boards to think about how they're delivering on this, and I think we can use targets to that. But they are one tool in the box that I would think we could use, and part of the consultation is to ask that question--'If we are to go down a route in Wales of choosing a target, what might that look like'Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. So, to be clear,

What did Dr Frank Atherton's answer to how would any gaps in their data be addressed

Dr Frank Atherton put out one" often asked" question and attached some importance to having a longitudinal view over time of what's happening to Children, which meant children were measured at school entry and then again at age 11 or 12. That would have significant resource implications, not just for the funding, but also for schools and for the system to deliver it. And also, according to Dr Frank Atherton, the longitudinal data would be helpful in strategy evaluation.

public. Is that something that you would be prepared to make a recommendation aroundDr Frank Atherton: Well, it's certainly a fascinating area and one that I think has a lot of potential. It goes--. You're right to raise it in the context of schools, and I can understand why this committee would, but I think it goes beyond that, actually, into all developments in the public sector and how they're developed and whether we're building health into our environment, which perhaps is your starting point. One of the things that I was really pleased to see in terms of the Public Health (Wales) Act 2017 that was passed a couple of years ago was the use of health impact assessment as a tool, and we're still working on how that will inform policy and how that will be applied in issues such as policy decisions through Government, but also in more downstream issues about how we create the public infrastructure that the public can and should be using. And so I would like to see the use of health impact assessments to a much greater degree to inform those kinds of decisions. If you apply that kind of lens and you take the point, which is inherent in your question, I think, that schools are not just for kids, they're for communities, then you would--it would lead you to a conclusion that you would perhaps design and build them in a different way. So, on a personal basis, I would certainly support your view that we should be looking to use the sports environment in schools in the same way as we use leisure centres. There are all kinds of barriers in there, and I understand all of that, and it's not really my field, exactly as you say, but, to legislate on. The timing of that will have to be subject to other pressures, and I come back to the point that legislation, of course, is one of the tools that we've got--we need to deploy them all.Dawn Bowden AM: Sure, I understand that, that you could do other things. I know--. We've heard from the Government, on other calls for legislation, that the programme's very tight, certainly for this term, so I was just wondering whether we might get that in, but okay. If I turn now to the planning system--and this might not be something that you have great deal of knowledge of; I'd just welcome your view on this, because, when we discussed with stakeholders, we talked about whether the planning system, for instance, could be used to, as an example, restrict hot food takeaways around schools and so on. Would that be a measure that you would support, something like thatDr Frank Atherton: I think it's definitely something we want to look at and, of course, that question is asked in the consultation, so we would like to know people's views on that. It's an interesting one. I think there is a question--a really important question--about how we can use the planning system more effectively. I've discussed with Nathan on a number of occasions, with planning colleagues in Welsh Government and in local authorities, about the art of the possible, let's say. There may be things that we could think about and we want to get those ideas through the consultation. The specific question around takeaways, particularly takeaways near schools, is often asked. I was very interested to see, up in the north-east, some time ago, that one of the local authorities up there did put a moratorium on the opening of new fast-food venues What assessment have you made of how that money is being spent in other UK nations Because my understanding is that the money is being used in other UK nations to directly impact on obesity. Have you given any consideration to-- As I understand it, that money now is being dispersed around a plethora of programmes, including the transformation programme, and what I found very odd, really, was vaccination, which is surely the core business of the NHS. Have you got any view on thatDr Frank Atherton: I'm not sure I understand your point, Chair, in terms of the link between the consequentials from--. Are you talking about the consequentials from the sugar levy or are you talking about--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, because in other nations, it is being used to directly impact on initiatives to tackle obesity, whereas, we've kind of put it here in Wales into the general pot and it's being used to fund a plethora of different things.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, that cuts to what I was talking about. My preference--it's a personal view--is that hypothecation doesn't really help us too much. I mean, what we need to look at is whether the programmes, the sorts of programmes that are being funded in England, or indeed in Scotland, are working effectively, and if they are, are they being delivered here in Wales We have looked very carefully at the plans that England and Scotland have for tackling obesity and overweight, and we've made a comparison with what we're doing in Wales, and our ambition in Wales is to go further than those nations, in many ways. But I come back to the point that just linking the hypothecation of a relatively small amount of resource is likely to be less impactful than asking a question of become overweight adults, we don't know what proportion of them between school entry and later teenage years--what those changes are. So, it would help us to have some better understanding, which would help to direct some of our initiatives. I'd be generally supportive of the principle. We'll wait and see what comes out in the consultation, and it's something that we need to give thought to, but we do have to trade off the additionality of what the information would give us with the cost of doing that, of course.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on healthy environments from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. In the draft plan, some of the measures in there suggest legislating for restricting price promotions and banning energy drinks, and that sort of thing. Do you think that, if we go down that road, there's going to be time within this Assembly to introduce such legislation And, if not, what do you think might be the timescale for such legislationDr Frank Atherton: It may well be that there are things in Wales that we might wish to legislate on, and you've mentioned two of them, and they're good examples. We would, obviously, need to undertake quite detailed consultation on those and, in a way, we need to mirror what's happening in England and in Scotland to some degree around the consultations they're having on energy drinks. We also need to influence the issues that are not devolved to us and we seek to do that. As to your question of legislative time, I'm not really in a position to answer that. What I could say is that legislation may well be one of the outcomes of the consultation. There may well be things that we wish to choose to look at how their joint delivery on physical activity can be taken forward more efficiently. So, one of the things they are looking at is obviously the schools programmes they do through eco-schools, the Welsh network of healthy schools and the sports programme to really think about that physical activity and how we can have better join up in terms of the programmes that we're already delivering as well.Hefin David AM: With that in mind, I'm going to confess to you, chief medical officer, I did anything in school I could to avoid physical education lessons. I hated it. I didn't feel engaged with it. Yet, two weeks ago, I played for the Assembly rugby team--I wanted to get that in. The school sports survey, that would suggest that we're still not hitting those targets with children. How can we get children more engaged with physical education in ways that-- I felt completely alienated in school.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, you're right, and many people go through that same journey and come to physical activity later in life, and that's great if they do that. The sad reality is that many people don't, and we also know that there are issues around the dropping off, particularly for girls, of physical activity towards the teenage years. So, there are specific moments that we need to understand. We do have a lot of information about these kinds of things. Public Health Wales is very good at collating the information. We do need to turn that into programmes. I mean, at the heart of it, it's about making sports and physical activity enjoyable and attractive to people. Sometimes that's easier, I sense, for boys than for girls, but we need to tailor things to different audiences.Hefin David AM: Yes, that's the trick, isn't

Summarize the discussion about legislation and sports infrastructural construction to make a healthy environment.

Dr Frank Atherton was first asked about legislations in the draft plan and their ideas on those things. The use of legislation was affirmed by Dr Frank Atherton but it was just one of the tools they have got, they need to employ them all. Then as to sports infrastructure, Dr Frank Atherton, though not an expert in that field, also supported it as a good one to pursue not only in schools but also in a broadening area.

become overweight adults, we don't know what proportion of them between school entry and later teenage years--what those changes are. So, it would help us to have some better understanding, which would help to direct some of our initiatives. I'd be generally supportive of the principle. We'll wait and see what comes out in the consultation, and it's something that we need to give thought to, but we do have to trade off the additionality of what the information would give us with the cost of doing that, of course.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on healthy environments from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. In the draft plan, some of the measures in there suggest legislating for restricting price promotions and banning energy drinks, and that sort of thing. Do you think that, if we go down that road, there's going to be time within this Assembly to introduce such legislation And, if not, what do you think might be the timescale for such legislationDr Frank Atherton: It may well be that there are things in Wales that we might wish to legislate on, and you've mentioned two of them, and they're good examples. We would, obviously, need to undertake quite detailed consultation on those and, in a way, we need to mirror what's happening in England and in Scotland to some degree around the consultations they're having on energy drinks. We also need to influence the issues that are not devolved to us and we seek to do that. As to your question of legislative time, I'm not really in a position to answer that. What I could say is that legislation may well be one of the outcomes of the consultation. There may well be things that we wish to choose public. Is that something that you would be prepared to make a recommendation aroundDr Frank Atherton: Well, it's certainly a fascinating area and one that I think has a lot of potential. It goes--. You're right to raise it in the context of schools, and I can understand why this committee would, but I think it goes beyond that, actually, into all developments in the public sector and how they're developed and whether we're building health into our environment, which perhaps is your starting point. One of the things that I was really pleased to see in terms of the Public Health (Wales) Act 2017 that was passed a couple of years ago was the use of health impact assessment as a tool, and we're still working on how that will inform policy and how that will be applied in issues such as policy decisions through Government, but also in more downstream issues about how we create the public infrastructure that the public can and should be using. And so I would like to see the use of health impact assessments to a much greater degree to inform those kinds of decisions. If you apply that kind of lens and you take the point, which is inherent in your question, I think, that schools are not just for kids, they're for communities, then you would--it would lead you to a conclusion that you would perhaps design and build them in a different way. So, on a personal basis, I would certainly support your view that we should be looking to use the sports environment in schools in the same way as we use leisure centres. There are all kinds of barriers in there, and I understand all of that, and it's not really my field, exactly as you say, but, What assessment have you made of how that money is being spent in other UK nations Because my understanding is that the money is being used in other UK nations to directly impact on obesity. Have you given any consideration to-- As I understand it, that money now is being dispersed around a plethora of programmes, including the transformation programme, and what I found very odd, really, was vaccination, which is surely the core business of the NHS. Have you got any view on thatDr Frank Atherton: I'm not sure I understand your point, Chair, in terms of the link between the consequentials from--. Are you talking about the consequentials from the sugar levy or are you talking about--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, because in other nations, it is being used to directly impact on initiatives to tackle obesity, whereas, we've kind of put it here in Wales into the general pot and it's being used to fund a plethora of different things.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, that cuts to what I was talking about. My preference--it's a personal view--is that hypothecation doesn't really help us too much. I mean, what we need to look at is whether the programmes, the sorts of programmes that are being funded in England, or indeed in Scotland, are working effectively, and if they are, are they being delivered here in Wales We have looked very carefully at the plans that England and Scotland have for tackling obesity and overweight, and we've made a comparison with what we're doing in Wales, and our ambition in Wales is to go further than those nations, in many ways. But I come back to the point that just linking the hypothecation of a relatively small amount of resource is likely to be less impactful than asking a question of been asked to give a deal of consideration to, and it hasn't really been discussed, I don't believe, in the context of development of the strategy. If there is a specific point around that that the committee would like to make in terms of a response into the consultation, which I presume you'll be making, then we'd be happy to consider that. As to healthy preschools, I don't know, Nathan may have some view on that. I've not been closely involved with the work. We have standards and we perhaps need to think about how we tighten those standards and how we--enforce isn't the right word, but how we implement and make sure that those standards are properly implemented, because you're absolutely right to say that habits are developed early in life. That's in the preschool; it's also in the home of course, and then later in the school. So, we do need to look at all of those as settings and are there more things we can do within those settings to drive healthier behaviours--that's exactly why we need the consultation.Nathan Cook: But I would say, through that scheme as well, we've really got a really good bank of preschools that are actually doing some really great work in this area as well. So, I think the more we can understand the successes that some of those environments are having--you know, how we can roll those out and work across other settings to create that wider impact as well is going to be really important.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Thank you. What I'm thinking about is expectations at that level will be expectations at a slightly older level, which will be contained within the foundation phase. And while you're quite right--obviously, parents have a role in this, or families--there will overweight children go on to become overweight adults, unfortunately, and that brings all the consequences of multiple disease issues--diabetes is often cited--cancer risk et cetera. So, we have to focus on children, and, in fact, during the consultation, we've been very clear that we need to engage with children and young people as well. Perhaps we'll get into that at some point, Chair, but, yes, I can give you that assurance.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. What my follow-up question, really, is: can you just tell us what kind of engagement you've had with children and young people to inform the draft strategyDr Frank Atherton: Well, Nathan may be able to influence some of the detail, but in broad terms, we have discussed with young people in a number of fora. In fact, I was delighted that we had a young person, Evie Morgan, a schoolgirl from mid Wales, who came to the joint launch on the consultation. She met the Minister there and gave a very good personal account of her views on obesity and overweight. We've been visiting a number of schools during the consultation process. I'm visiting a school, either this week or next week, at Treorchy, to talk with teachers and young people there. Obviously, we're hopeful that schools and young people will contribute to the consultation as well. So, we've had quite good input, I would say, from children and young people. There is always more we can do we and we want to hear those voices.Nathan Cook: I was going to say, we've also had a session with youth ambassadors as well, and what we've actually produced for the consultation is not just the children and young people's version, but also a toolkit in terms of getting schools really engaged and involved in terms

What did Dr Frank Atherton said about legislation to build a healthy environment

According to Dr Frank Atherton's answer to legislations'timing, it was very clear that the implementation of legislation to build a healthy environment was very approved by Dr Frank Atherton and even by a large group in the consultation. Dr Frank Atherton reviewed that they needed a mirror to see what had been happening in this country and legislation was a good way and took some examples of food takeaways which showed that they needed to consider effectiveness things.

become overweight adults, we don't know what proportion of them between school entry and later teenage years--what those changes are. So, it would help us to have some better understanding, which would help to direct some of our initiatives. I'd be generally supportive of the principle. We'll wait and see what comes out in the consultation, and it's something that we need to give thought to, but we do have to trade off the additionality of what the information would give us with the cost of doing that, of course.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on healthy environments from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. In the draft plan, some of the measures in there suggest legislating for restricting price promotions and banning energy drinks, and that sort of thing. Do you think that, if we go down that road, there's going to be time within this Assembly to introduce such legislation And, if not, what do you think might be the timescale for such legislationDr Frank Atherton: It may well be that there are things in Wales that we might wish to legislate on, and you've mentioned two of them, and they're good examples. We would, obviously, need to undertake quite detailed consultation on those and, in a way, we need to mirror what's happening in England and in Scotland to some degree around the consultations they're having on energy drinks. We also need to influence the issues that are not devolved to us and we seek to do that. As to your question of legislative time, I'm not really in a position to answer that. What I could say is that legislation may well be one of the outcomes of the consultation. There may well be things that we wish to choose been asked to give a deal of consideration to, and it hasn't really been discussed, I don't believe, in the context of development of the strategy. If there is a specific point around that that the committee would like to make in terms of a response into the consultation, which I presume you'll be making, then we'd be happy to consider that. As to healthy preschools, I don't know, Nathan may have some view on that. I've not been closely involved with the work. We have standards and we perhaps need to think about how we tighten those standards and how we--enforce isn't the right word, but how we implement and make sure that those standards are properly implemented, because you're absolutely right to say that habits are developed early in life. That's in the preschool; it's also in the home of course, and then later in the school. So, we do need to look at all of those as settings and are there more things we can do within those settings to drive healthier behaviours--that's exactly why we need the consultation.Nathan Cook: But I would say, through that scheme as well, we've really got a really good bank of preschools that are actually doing some really great work in this area as well. So, I think the more we can understand the successes that some of those environments are having--you know, how we can roll those out and work across other settings to create that wider impact as well is going to be really important.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Thank you. What I'm thinking about is expectations at that level will be expectations at a slightly older level, which will be contained within the foundation phase. And while you're quite right--obviously, parents have a role in this, or families--there will What assessment have you made of how that money is being spent in other UK nations Because my understanding is that the money is being used in other UK nations to directly impact on obesity. Have you given any consideration to-- As I understand it, that money now is being dispersed around a plethora of programmes, including the transformation programme, and what I found very odd, really, was vaccination, which is surely the core business of the NHS. Have you got any view on thatDr Frank Atherton: I'm not sure I understand your point, Chair, in terms of the link between the consequentials from--. Are you talking about the consequentials from the sugar levy or are you talking about--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, because in other nations, it is being used to directly impact on initiatives to tackle obesity, whereas, we've kind of put it here in Wales into the general pot and it's being used to fund a plethora of different things.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, that cuts to what I was talking about. My preference--it's a personal view--is that hypothecation doesn't really help us too much. I mean, what we need to look at is whether the programmes, the sorts of programmes that are being funded in England, or indeed in Scotland, are working effectively, and if they are, are they being delivered here in Wales We have looked very carefully at the plans that England and Scotland have for tackling obesity and overweight, and we've made a comparison with what we're doing in Wales, and our ambition in Wales is to go further than those nations, in many ways. But I come back to the point that just linking the hypothecation of a relatively small amount of resource is likely to be less impactful than asking a question of public. Is that something that you would be prepared to make a recommendation aroundDr Frank Atherton: Well, it's certainly a fascinating area and one that I think has a lot of potential. It goes--. You're right to raise it in the context of schools, and I can understand why this committee would, but I think it goes beyond that, actually, into all developments in the public sector and how they're developed and whether we're building health into our environment, which perhaps is your starting point. One of the things that I was really pleased to see in terms of the Public Health (Wales) Act 2017 that was passed a couple of years ago was the use of health impact assessment as a tool, and we're still working on how that will inform policy and how that will be applied in issues such as policy decisions through Government, but also in more downstream issues about how we create the public infrastructure that the public can and should be using. And so I would like to see the use of health impact assessments to a much greater degree to inform those kinds of decisions. If you apply that kind of lens and you take the point, which is inherent in your question, I think, that schools are not just for kids, they're for communities, then you would--it would lead you to a conclusion that you would perhaps design and build them in a different way. So, on a personal basis, I would certainly support your view that we should be looking to use the sports environment in schools in the same way as we use leisure centres. There are all kinds of barriers in there, and I understand all of that, and it's not really my field, exactly as you say, but, to legislate on. The timing of that will have to be subject to other pressures, and I come back to the point that legislation, of course, is one of the tools that we've got--we need to deploy them all.Dawn Bowden AM: Sure, I understand that, that you could do other things. I know--. We've heard from the Government, on other calls for legislation, that the programme's very tight, certainly for this term, so I was just wondering whether we might get that in, but okay. If I turn now to the planning system--and this might not be something that you have great deal of knowledge of; I'd just welcome your view on this, because, when we discussed with stakeholders, we talked about whether the planning system, for instance, could be used to, as an example, restrict hot food takeaways around schools and so on. Would that be a measure that you would support, something like thatDr Frank Atherton: I think it's definitely something we want to look at and, of course, that question is asked in the consultation, so we would like to know people's views on that. It's an interesting one. I think there is a question--a really important question--about how we can use the planning system more effectively. I've discussed with Nathan on a number of occasions, with planning colleagues in Welsh Government and in local authorities, about the art of the possible, let's say. There may be things that we could think about and we want to get those ideas through the consultation. The specific question around takeaways, particularly takeaways near schools, is often asked. I was very interested to see, up in the north-east, some time ago, that one of the local authorities up there did put a moratorium on the opening of new fast-food venues

What did Dawn Bowden AM mean when he talked about sports infrastructure

Dawn Bowden AM asked for Dr Frank Atherton's ideas on community sport infrastructure of new schools, and pointed out that Welsh Government has ploughed a huge amount of money into the twenty-first century schools programme. At the end of speech, Dawn Bowden AM thought they should be making sure that they have those kinds of facilities so that they become accessible to the wider public. At the same time, Dawn Bowden AM gave advice on making a recommendation of sports infrastructure to Dr Frank Atherton.

should do. There are a number of things, the sorts of programmes you've mentioned, that I think could be more effective. We're currently looking at breastfeeding because it starts before birth, actually. We know that children who are breastfed are less likely to suffer from obesity in childhood and, indeed, to go on to be obese adults. So, we do need to go further on that. We do have some programmes--Healthy Working Wales, et cetera--that need to be improved. If there are other interventions in other areas that we need to take, then we'd be delighted to hear what they are, but those are the ones that have jumped out so far.Nathan Cook: Can I just say-- One of the proposals we're looking for is, obviously, we know that during pregnancy it's a really critical time when we can actually look to work with mothers. We know from looking at some of the behaviour change that it's actually a really critical point when new mothers really start thinking about their lives, wanting the best for their child and their families. So, what we are thinking about is how we could develop some kind of approaches to that going forward. But we know our Healthy Start scheme is also a good lever for us, just in terms of how we can look to improve that kind of dietary offer at the earliest stage as well.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Finally, we know that for some families day-to-day challenges can make it difficult for them to make healthy choices, particularly for those on lower incomes and/or maybe using food banks. Could the Welsh Government take bolder action to better support low-income families to eat healthilyDr Frank Atherton: Well, you've touched on a really important point about inequalities because overweight and obesity is public. Is that something that you would be prepared to make a recommendation aroundDr Frank Atherton: Well, it's certainly a fascinating area and one that I think has a lot of potential. It goes--. You're right to raise it in the context of schools, and I can understand why this committee would, but I think it goes beyond that, actually, into all developments in the public sector and how they're developed and whether we're building health into our environment, which perhaps is your starting point. One of the things that I was really pleased to see in terms of the Public Health (Wales) Act 2017 that was passed a couple of years ago was the use of health impact assessment as a tool, and we're still working on how that will inform policy and how that will be applied in issues such as policy decisions through Government, but also in more downstream issues about how we create the public infrastructure that the public can and should be using. And so I would like to see the use of health impact assessments to a much greater degree to inform those kinds of decisions. If you apply that kind of lens and you take the point, which is inherent in your question, I think, that schools are not just for kids, they're for communities, then you would--it would lead you to a conclusion that you would perhaps design and build them in a different way. So, on a personal basis, I would certainly support your view that we should be looking to use the sports environment in schools in the same way as we use leisure centres. There are all kinds of barriers in there, and I understand all of that, and it's not really my field, exactly as you say, but, to respond to this issue. What we're seeing across the NHS is a gradual transformation in primary care so that primary care is no longer about going to see your GP, it's about going to see a practice where you have a range of health professionals. Would I like to see more dietetic support, for example, in that setting Absolutely I would. I think we need to think in terms of that pathway that we were talking about earlier, about access to that kind of advice and support, which can head off people getting into problems and kids getting into problems with weight issues. So, that question of redesign of the pathway really speaks to, I think, your point about,'Well, where do people go when they have problems with their weight'That's true for adults and it's true for children as well.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions from Members No. Okay. Well, can I thank you both very much for your attendance It's been a really productive session. We appreciate your time. You will be sent a transcript to check for accuracy in due course, but thank you again.Dr Frank Atherton: We'll do that. Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the committee, because getting some input into the consultation from children's perspectives, this would be one of the routes we would absolutely welcome. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee on CAMHS tier 4 provision. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Health and Social Services also on CAMHS in-patient provision. Paper to note 3 is a letter from the Children Commissioner for Wales on tier 4 CAMHS overweight children go on to become overweight adults, unfortunately, and that brings all the consequences of multiple disease issues--diabetes is often cited--cancer risk et cetera. So, we have to focus on children, and, in fact, during the consultation, we've been very clear that we need to engage with children and young people as well. Perhaps we'll get into that at some point, Chair, but, yes, I can give you that assurance.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. What my follow-up question, really, is: can you just tell us what kind of engagement you've had with children and young people to inform the draft strategyDr Frank Atherton: Well, Nathan may be able to influence some of the detail, but in broad terms, we have discussed with young people in a number of fora. In fact, I was delighted that we had a young person, Evie Morgan, a schoolgirl from mid Wales, who came to the joint launch on the consultation. She met the Minister there and gave a very good personal account of her views on obesity and overweight. We've been visiting a number of schools during the consultation process. I'm visiting a school, either this week or next week, at Treorchy, to talk with teachers and young people there. Obviously, we're hopeful that schools and young people will contribute to the consultation as well. So, we've had quite good input, I would say, from children and young people. There is always more we can do we and we want to hear those voices.Nathan Cook: I was going to say, we've also had a session with youth ambassadors as well, and what we've actually produced for the consultation is not just the children and young people's version, but also a toolkit in terms of getting schools really engaged and involved in terms you're not ruling out that maybe we would need a target.Dr Frank Atherton: It's certainly something that we could consider in terms of the final strategy.Sian Gwenllian AM: And is that your opinion tooNathan Cook: Yes.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. Well, that is contrary to what I was told yesterday on the floor of the Chamber by the Minister, but there we go. I'm glad to hear that you're not ruling out having a target, because without a target, without something to aim for, how do we know that we're getting thereDr Frank Atherton: I think your point about evaluation is really important. Whatever we produce at the end of this process--and we're looking to produce a final strategy towards the autumn--we do need to have a strong evaluation. So, some metrics in there, it would seem, would be appropriate, but what those are, what the nature of those are, do we frame them as targets or ambitions--that's the point we need to consult on.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. And the other point, of course, is the investment. If the Government is going to be successful in terms of the aim of reducing childhood obesity, then it needs to fund and support the actions. Have you made an assessment of the level of investment needed to implement this planDr Frank Atherton: Resourcing will be important. We currently do make investments in a number of areas that relate to child health generally, and, of course, obesity and overweight in particular. So, the question of resourcing is important. Now, we can't quantify an absolute amount of resource that will be needed to deliver until we know exactly what's going to come out of the consultation and what actions we might want to deliver to a greater degree in Wales. A figure of PS8 million

Summarize the discussion about physical education and food provision for pupils in schools.

Dr Frank Atherton first gave a look at a primary school education embedded with physical activity at an early stage and assures its benefits not only on healthy benefits but also on socialization and mental issues. Then Dr Frank Atherton delivered sparkles on making pupils more engaged with physical education, which was tailoring things to different audiences. When it came to school meals, Dr Frank Atherton did not gave personal views because things related still needed more consultations and surveys.

public. Is that something that you would be prepared to make a recommendation aroundDr Frank Atherton: Well, it's certainly a fascinating area and one that I think has a lot of potential. It goes--. You're right to raise it in the context of schools, and I can understand why this committee would, but I think it goes beyond that, actually, into all developments in the public sector and how they're developed and whether we're building health into our environment, which perhaps is your starting point. One of the things that I was really pleased to see in terms of the Public Health (Wales) Act 2017 that was passed a couple of years ago was the use of health impact assessment as a tool, and we're still working on how that will inform policy and how that will be applied in issues such as policy decisions through Government, but also in more downstream issues about how we create the public infrastructure that the public can and should be using. And so I would like to see the use of health impact assessments to a much greater degree to inform those kinds of decisions. If you apply that kind of lens and you take the point, which is inherent in your question, I think, that schools are not just for kids, they're for communities, then you would--it would lead you to a conclusion that you would perhaps design and build them in a different way. So, on a personal basis, I would certainly support your view that we should be looking to use the sports environment in schools in the same way as we use leisure centres. There are all kinds of barriers in there, and I understand all of that, and it's not really my field, exactly as you say, but, been asked to give a deal of consideration to, and it hasn't really been discussed, I don't believe, in the context of development of the strategy. If there is a specific point around that that the committee would like to make in terms of a response into the consultation, which I presume you'll be making, then we'd be happy to consider that. As to healthy preschools, I don't know, Nathan may have some view on that. I've not been closely involved with the work. We have standards and we perhaps need to think about how we tighten those standards and how we--enforce isn't the right word, but how we implement and make sure that those standards are properly implemented, because you're absolutely right to say that habits are developed early in life. That's in the preschool; it's also in the home of course, and then later in the school. So, we do need to look at all of those as settings and are there more things we can do within those settings to drive healthier behaviours--that's exactly why we need the consultation.Nathan Cook: But I would say, through that scheme as well, we've really got a really good bank of preschools that are actually doing some really great work in this area as well. So, I think the more we can understand the successes that some of those environments are having--you know, how we can roll those out and work across other settings to create that wider impact as well is going to be really important.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Thank you. What I'm thinking about is expectations at that level will be expectations at a slightly older level, which will be contained within the foundation phase. And while you're quite right--obviously, parents have a role in this, or families--there will to look at how their joint delivery on physical activity can be taken forward more efficiently. So, one of the things they are looking at is obviously the schools programmes they do through eco-schools, the Welsh network of healthy schools and the sports programme to really think about that physical activity and how we can have better join up in terms of the programmes that we're already delivering as well.Hefin David AM: With that in mind, I'm going to confess to you, chief medical officer, I did anything in school I could to avoid physical education lessons. I hated it. I didn't feel engaged with it. Yet, two weeks ago, I played for the Assembly rugby team--I wanted to get that in. The school sports survey, that would suggest that we're still not hitting those targets with children. How can we get children more engaged with physical education in ways that-- I felt completely alienated in school.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, you're right, and many people go through that same journey and come to physical activity later in life, and that's great if they do that. The sad reality is that many people don't, and we also know that there are issues around the dropping off, particularly for girls, of physical activity towards the teenage years. So, there are specific moments that we need to understand. We do have a lot of information about these kinds of things. Public Health Wales is very good at collating the information. We do need to turn that into programmes. I mean, at the heart of it, it's about making sports and physical activity enjoyable and attractive to people. Sometimes that's easier, I sense, for boys than for girls, but we need to tailor things to different audiences.Hefin David AM: Yes, that's the trick, isn't would be helpful to us in Wales, and it's one of the questions in the consultation about whether we should expand that. Obviously, that would have significant resource implications, not just for the funding, but also for schools and for the system to deliver it. But it's something that maybe would help us in terms of better understanding and better evaluation--the point that was made earlier.Nathan Cook: And the other data we do have is the millennium cohort study, which has been released, for 14 and 15-year-olds. That's going to be--. We're starting to think about how we can utilise some of that data, looking at that longitudinal picture around children as well, which will be really helpful.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. You've answered my next question. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Can I just ask about the child measurement programme The strategy commits to looking at whether we can have a second measurement taking place in Wales. Can you just tell us a bit more about your thinking on that and when you would see a second measurement taking place and how you would use that dataDr Frank Atherton: I touched on that just now, but personally I do think it would be helpful to have more information. It's always the case, There's always a trade-off between the cost of getting that information and the value of the information. So, the question of how it would be used would be really important. There is still a lot that we don't know. We know an awful lot about obesity and being overweight and the causes of it, but we don't really have a very clear understanding, in Wales at least, of the point at which children start to become overweight. Although we know that overweight children tend to go on to overweight children go on to become overweight adults, unfortunately, and that brings all the consequences of multiple disease issues--diabetes is often cited--cancer risk et cetera. So, we have to focus on children, and, in fact, during the consultation, we've been very clear that we need to engage with children and young people as well. Perhaps we'll get into that at some point, Chair, but, yes, I can give you that assurance.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. What my follow-up question, really, is: can you just tell us what kind of engagement you've had with children and young people to inform the draft strategyDr Frank Atherton: Well, Nathan may be able to influence some of the detail, but in broad terms, we have discussed with young people in a number of fora. In fact, I was delighted that we had a young person, Evie Morgan, a schoolgirl from mid Wales, who came to the joint launch on the consultation. She met the Minister there and gave a very good personal account of her views on obesity and overweight. We've been visiting a number of schools during the consultation process. I'm visiting a school, either this week or next week, at Treorchy, to talk with teachers and young people there. Obviously, we're hopeful that schools and young people will contribute to the consultation as well. So, we've had quite good input, I would say, from children and young people. There is always more we can do we and we want to hear those voices.Nathan Cook: I was going to say, we've also had a session with youth ambassadors as well, and what we've actually produced for the consultation is not just the children and young people's version, but also a toolkit in terms of getting schools really engaged and involved in terms

Why did Dr Frank Atherton make a commitment to embedding physical activity at an early stage in primary school education

Dr Frank Atherton considered that just in terms of the physical activity, it was a really important dimension and they found that their children were not that physically active and couldn't meet the various guidelines. Embedding physical activity at an early stage in primary school education might not have the same effect as the dietary issue did to healthy weight, but it was vital to pupils socialization and mental health.

become overweight adults, we don't know what proportion of them between school entry and later teenage years--what those changes are. So, it would help us to have some better understanding, which would help to direct some of our initiatives. I'd be generally supportive of the principle. We'll wait and see what comes out in the consultation, and it's something that we need to give thought to, but we do have to trade off the additionality of what the information would give us with the cost of doing that, of course.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on healthy environments from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. In the draft plan, some of the measures in there suggest legislating for restricting price promotions and banning energy drinks, and that sort of thing. Do you think that, if we go down that road, there's going to be time within this Assembly to introduce such legislation And, if not, what do you think might be the timescale for such legislationDr Frank Atherton: It may well be that there are things in Wales that we might wish to legislate on, and you've mentioned two of them, and they're good examples. We would, obviously, need to undertake quite detailed consultation on those and, in a way, we need to mirror what's happening in England and in Scotland to some degree around the consultations they're having on energy drinks. We also need to influence the issues that are not devolved to us and we seek to do that. As to your question of legislative time, I'm not really in a position to answer that. What I could say is that legislation may well be one of the outcomes of the consultation. There may well be things that we wish to choose should do. There are a number of things, the sorts of programmes you've mentioned, that I think could be more effective. We're currently looking at breastfeeding because it starts before birth, actually. We know that children who are breastfed are less likely to suffer from obesity in childhood and, indeed, to go on to be obese adults. So, we do need to go further on that. We do have some programmes--Healthy Working Wales, et cetera--that need to be improved. If there are other interventions in other areas that we need to take, then we'd be delighted to hear what they are, but those are the ones that have jumped out so far.Nathan Cook: Can I just say-- One of the proposals we're looking for is, obviously, we know that during pregnancy it's a really critical time when we can actually look to work with mothers. We know from looking at some of the behaviour change that it's actually a really critical point when new mothers really start thinking about their lives, wanting the best for their child and their families. So, what we are thinking about is how we could develop some kind of approaches to that going forward. But we know our Healthy Start scheme is also a good lever for us, just in terms of how we can look to improve that kind of dietary offer at the earliest stage as well.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Finally, we know that for some families day-to-day challenges can make it difficult for them to make healthy choices, particularly for those on lower incomes and/or maybe using food banks. Could the Welsh Government take bolder action to better support low-income families to eat healthilyDr Frank Atherton: Well, you've touched on a really important point about inequalities because overweight and obesity is to respond to this issue. What we're seeing across the NHS is a gradual transformation in primary care so that primary care is no longer about going to see your GP, it's about going to see a practice where you have a range of health professionals. Would I like to see more dietetic support, for example, in that setting Absolutely I would. I think we need to think in terms of that pathway that we were talking about earlier, about access to that kind of advice and support, which can head off people getting into problems and kids getting into problems with weight issues. So, that question of redesign of the pathway really speaks to, I think, your point about,'Well, where do people go when they have problems with their weight'That's true for adults and it's true for children as well.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions from Members No. Okay. Well, can I thank you both very much for your attendance It's been a really productive session. We appreciate your time. You will be sent a transcript to check for accuracy in due course, but thank you again.Dr Frank Atherton: We'll do that. Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the committee, because getting some input into the consultation from children's perspectives, this would be one of the routes we would absolutely welcome. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee on CAMHS tier 4 provision. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Health and Social Services also on CAMHS in-patient provision. Paper to note 3 is a letter from the Children Commissioner for Wales on tier 4 CAMHS overweight children go on to become overweight adults, unfortunately, and that brings all the consequences of multiple disease issues--diabetes is often cited--cancer risk et cetera. So, we have to focus on children, and, in fact, during the consultation, we've been very clear that we need to engage with children and young people as well. Perhaps we'll get into that at some point, Chair, but, yes, I can give you that assurance.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. What my follow-up question, really, is: can you just tell us what kind of engagement you've had with children and young people to inform the draft strategyDr Frank Atherton: Well, Nathan may be able to influence some of the detail, but in broad terms, we have discussed with young people in a number of fora. In fact, I was delighted that we had a young person, Evie Morgan, a schoolgirl from mid Wales, who came to the joint launch on the consultation. She met the Minister there and gave a very good personal account of her views on obesity and overweight. We've been visiting a number of schools during the consultation process. I'm visiting a school, either this week or next week, at Treorchy, to talk with teachers and young people there. Obviously, we're hopeful that schools and young people will contribute to the consultation as well. So, we've had quite good input, I would say, from children and young people. There is always more we can do we and we want to hear those voices.Nathan Cook: I was going to say, we've also had a session with youth ambassadors as well, and what we've actually produced for the consultation is not just the children and young people's version, but also a toolkit in terms of getting schools really engaged and involved in terms to legislate on. The timing of that will have to be subject to other pressures, and I come back to the point that legislation, of course, is one of the tools that we've got--we need to deploy them all.Dawn Bowden AM: Sure, I understand that, that you could do other things. I know--. We've heard from the Government, on other calls for legislation, that the programme's very tight, certainly for this term, so I was just wondering whether we might get that in, but okay. If I turn now to the planning system--and this might not be something that you have great deal of knowledge of; I'd just welcome your view on this, because, when we discussed with stakeholders, we talked about whether the planning system, for instance, could be used to, as an example, restrict hot food takeaways around schools and so on. Would that be a measure that you would support, something like thatDr Frank Atherton: I think it's definitely something we want to look at and, of course, that question is asked in the consultation, so we would like to know people's views on that. It's an interesting one. I think there is a question--a really important question--about how we can use the planning system more effectively. I've discussed with Nathan on a number of occasions, with planning colleagues in Welsh Government and in local authorities, about the art of the possible, let's say. There may be things that we could think about and we want to get those ideas through the consultation. The specific question around takeaways, particularly takeaways near schools, is often asked. I was very interested to see, up in the north-east, some time ago, that one of the local authorities up there did put a moratorium on the opening of new fast-food venues

What was Dr Frank Atherton's opinion on providing a more varied diet for pupils

In fact, Dr Frank Atherton did not give an exact opinion on providing a more varied diet for pupils. It would be something needing consultation and consideration, then they might decide whether it was worth carrying out. The quality of food, rather than preparing school meals or not, was more important to Dr Frank Atherton.

become overweight adults, we don't know what proportion of them between school entry and later teenage years--what those changes are. So, it would help us to have some better understanding, which would help to direct some of our initiatives. I'd be generally supportive of the principle. We'll wait and see what comes out in the consultation, and it's something that we need to give thought to, but we do have to trade off the additionality of what the information would give us with the cost of doing that, of course.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on healthy environments from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. In the draft plan, some of the measures in there suggest legislating for restricting price promotions and banning energy drinks, and that sort of thing. Do you think that, if we go down that road, there's going to be time within this Assembly to introduce such legislation And, if not, what do you think might be the timescale for such legislationDr Frank Atherton: It may well be that there are things in Wales that we might wish to legislate on, and you've mentioned two of them, and they're good examples. We would, obviously, need to undertake quite detailed consultation on those and, in a way, we need to mirror what's happening in England and in Scotland to some degree around the consultations they're having on energy drinks. We also need to influence the issues that are not devolved to us and we seek to do that. As to your question of legislative time, I'm not really in a position to answer that. What I could say is that legislation may well be one of the outcomes of the consultation. There may well be things that we wish to choose been asked to give a deal of consideration to, and it hasn't really been discussed, I don't believe, in the context of development of the strategy. If there is a specific point around that that the committee would like to make in terms of a response into the consultation, which I presume you'll be making, then we'd be happy to consider that. As to healthy preschools, I don't know, Nathan may have some view on that. I've not been closely involved with the work. We have standards and we perhaps need to think about how we tighten those standards and how we--enforce isn't the right word, but how we implement and make sure that those standards are properly implemented, because you're absolutely right to say that habits are developed early in life. That's in the preschool; it's also in the home of course, and then later in the school. So, we do need to look at all of those as settings and are there more things we can do within those settings to drive healthier behaviours--that's exactly why we need the consultation.Nathan Cook: But I would say, through that scheme as well, we've really got a really good bank of preschools that are actually doing some really great work in this area as well. So, I think the more we can understand the successes that some of those environments are having--you know, how we can roll those out and work across other settings to create that wider impact as well is going to be really important.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Thank you. What I'm thinking about is expectations at that level will be expectations at a slightly older level, which will be contained within the foundation phase. And while you're quite right--obviously, parents have a role in this, or families--there will to look at how their joint delivery on physical activity can be taken forward more efficiently. So, one of the things they are looking at is obviously the schools programmes they do through eco-schools, the Welsh network of healthy schools and the sports programme to really think about that physical activity and how we can have better join up in terms of the programmes that we're already delivering as well.Hefin David AM: With that in mind, I'm going to confess to you, chief medical officer, I did anything in school I could to avoid physical education lessons. I hated it. I didn't feel engaged with it. Yet, two weeks ago, I played for the Assembly rugby team--I wanted to get that in. The school sports survey, that would suggest that we're still not hitting those targets with children. How can we get children more engaged with physical education in ways that-- I felt completely alienated in school.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, you're right, and many people go through that same journey and come to physical activity later in life, and that's great if they do that. The sad reality is that many people don't, and we also know that there are issues around the dropping off, particularly for girls, of physical activity towards the teenage years. So, there are specific moments that we need to understand. We do have a lot of information about these kinds of things. Public Health Wales is very good at collating the information. We do need to turn that into programmes. I mean, at the heart of it, it's about making sports and physical activity enjoyable and attractive to people. Sometimes that's easier, I sense, for boys than for girls, but we need to tailor things to different audiences.Hefin David AM: Yes, that's the trick, isn't to respond to this issue. What we're seeing across the NHS is a gradual transformation in primary care so that primary care is no longer about going to see your GP, it's about going to see a practice where you have a range of health professionals. Would I like to see more dietetic support, for example, in that setting Absolutely I would. I think we need to think in terms of that pathway that we were talking about earlier, about access to that kind of advice and support, which can head off people getting into problems and kids getting into problems with weight issues. So, that question of redesign of the pathway really speaks to, I think, your point about,'Well, where do people go when they have problems with their weight'That's true for adults and it's true for children as well.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions from Members No. Okay. Well, can I thank you both very much for your attendance It's been a really productive session. We appreciate your time. You will be sent a transcript to check for accuracy in due course, but thank you again.Dr Frank Atherton: We'll do that. Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the committee, because getting some input into the consultation from children's perspectives, this would be one of the routes we would absolutely welcome. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee on CAMHS tier 4 provision. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Health and Social Services also on CAMHS in-patient provision. Paper to note 3 is a letter from the Children Commissioner for Wales on tier 4 CAMHS to legislate on. The timing of that will have to be subject to other pressures, and I come back to the point that legislation, of course, is one of the tools that we've got--we need to deploy them all.Dawn Bowden AM: Sure, I understand that, that you could do other things. I know--. We've heard from the Government, on other calls for legislation, that the programme's very tight, certainly for this term, so I was just wondering whether we might get that in, but okay. If I turn now to the planning system--and this might not be something that you have great deal of knowledge of; I'd just welcome your view on this, because, when we discussed with stakeholders, we talked about whether the planning system, for instance, could be used to, as an example, restrict hot food takeaways around schools and so on. Would that be a measure that you would support, something like thatDr Frank Atherton: I think it's definitely something we want to look at and, of course, that question is asked in the consultation, so we would like to know people's views on that. It's an interesting one. I think there is a question--a really important question--about how we can use the planning system more effectively. I've discussed with Nathan on a number of occasions, with planning colleagues in Welsh Government and in local authorities, about the art of the possible, let's say. There may be things that we could think about and we want to get those ideas through the consultation. The specific question around takeaways, particularly takeaways near schools, is often asked. I was very interested to see, up in the north-east, some time ago, that one of the local authorities up there did put a moratorium on the opening of new fast-food venues

Summarize the whole meeting.

The meeting with Dr Frank Atherton, the Chief Medical Officer for Wales, and Nathan Cook, who is the head of the healthy and active branch at Welsh Government, was mainly about the'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales'draft strategy in Wales and subsequent questions about it. To start with, Sian Gwenllian AM proposed questions like the strategy's evaluation, investment and principal. Dr Frank Atherton, at the same time, indicated that there was a n exact evaluation and the nation has already imposed tax on sugar and the first Minister will definitely be the ultimate man at the wheel. Then they paid much attention to existing data measuring child obesity and decided to put it in great use in tackling obesity. Meanwhile, the meeting talked about government legislation for some sort of things like restricting price promotions and banning energy drinks, and sports infrastructure in schools as part of efforts to make a healthy environment. What's more, they went into details on how healthy settings constructions and whom that would be the one to take responsibility. Also, they had a discussion on physical education and school meals for pupils. Finally, the meeting participants gave some supplements of education and the draft strategy and the chair concluded the meeting with the future universality of the draft strategy.

points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You really did a good job on that, my little designers.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place. That's that's a really good good thing.Project Manager: Yes, and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, that's great.Project Manager: you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Abs okay.Marketing: The colour's very attractive. Um the um these buttons uh around here are the muteUser Interface: No, these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here, are the mute buttons.Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're muteUser Interface: Yes, yes.Marketing: So you can push either oneUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter.Marketing: And this brings the menu up on the screenUser Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me This is the menu {disfmarker} yes, yes.Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes,Marketing: Okay.User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels.Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels.Marketing: Right, very good. Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, I have one questionMarketing: yeah.Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons, like that people know, or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does whatUser Interface: Yes, it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. the next is functionality where I I admit I was a little hard on our team here, but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well it's also you can't really try it out uh the other things you have have more {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} are more tangible so from that point of viewMarketing: Yeah. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: but um {disfmarker} I'll give it a three.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Two.Marketing: Two, okay.Industrial Designer: Uh three, mm-hmm.Marketing: Three Okay. Well, um. It looks like we've got got ourselves a pretty good product. Um the functionality's the only place where maybe we have to think about m m maybe, heaven forbid, having another meeting.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} But um otherwise I think we're {disfmarker} we're ready to go to {disfmarker} go with this product. Anybody else have any other comments or any other things that we feel we should evaluateProject Manager: Uh. Here is what we looking at uh satisfaction on for example room for creativity. Um. Is there more room for creativity or are we absolutely happyUser Interface: We can always improve, yes.Industrial Designer: Maybe we can {disfmarker} yeah, include some more buttons and uh umUser Interface: Yes, features.Industrial Designer: yeah features. We can make the buttons {disfmarker} few buttons smaller. Uh I think they are quite big, so I think {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean we can just have small buttons and more buttons in that case. If we want to have more features than that.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Well then again if we're gonna um {vocalsound} do the speech recognition thing we're gon there gonna be some buttons that are gonna have to be added for that for the recording of the the speech.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.User Interface: Yes. Voices.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So that that's where we're gonna have to do {disfmarker} maybe we can

Summarize the recap of the last meeting regarding the presentation by User Interface.

The main function of the remote would be sending messages to the TV. For the interface, it should have nine channel buttons, a next button, volume buttons, subtitle buttons and switches to control features, colour contrast, sharpness etc. Interface Designer said that looks would be very important for the remote so the remote should be child-friendly with few buttons and could be colourful with star-shaped or other shaped buttons. An oversized remote was presented but was challenged by the team. Speech recognition was a feature that Interface Designer wanted to include.

points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You really did a good job on that, my little designers.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place. That's that's a really good good thing.Project Manager: Yes, and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, that's great.Project Manager: you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Abs okay.Marketing: The colour's very attractive. Um the um these buttons uh around here are the muteUser Interface: No, these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here, are the mute buttons.Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're muteUser Interface: Yes, yes.Marketing: So you can push either oneUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter.Marketing: And this brings the menu up on the screenUser Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me This is the menu {disfmarker} yes, yes.Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes,Marketing: Okay.User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels.Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels.Marketing: Right, very good. Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, I have one questionMarketing: yeah.Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons, like that people know, or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does whatUser Interface: Yes, it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. the next is functionality where I I admit I was a little hard on our team here, but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well it's also you can't really try it out uh the other things you have have more {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} are more tangible so from that point of viewMarketing: Yeah. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: but um {disfmarker} I'll give it a three.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Two.Marketing: Two, okay.Industrial Designer: Uh three, mm-hmm.Marketing: Three Okay. Well, um. It looks like we've got got ourselves a pretty good product. Um the functionality's the only place where maybe we have to think about m m maybe, heaven forbid, having another meeting.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} But um otherwise I think we're {disfmarker} we're ready to go to {disfmarker} go with this product. Anybody else have any other comments or any other things that we feel we should evaluateProject Manager: Uh. Here is what we looking at uh satisfaction on for example room for creativity. Um. Is there more room for creativity or are we absolutely happyUser Interface: We can always improve, yes.Industrial Designer: Maybe we can {disfmarker} yeah, include some more buttons and uh umUser Interface: Yes, features.Industrial Designer: yeah features. We can make the buttons {disfmarker} few buttons smaller. Uh I think they are quite big, so I think {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean we can just have small buttons and more buttons in that case. If we want to have more features than that.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Well then again if we're gonna um {vocalsound} do the speech recognition thing we're gon there gonna be some buttons that are gonna have to be added for that for the recording of the the speech.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.User Interface: Yes. Voices.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So that that's where we're gonna have to do {disfmarker} maybe we can

Summarize the recap of the last meeting regarding the presentation by Industrial Designer.

Making a recyclable and colourful case out of plastic that was strong without using harmful materials was proposed. For the components, there would be a resistor, a capacitor, a diode transistor, resonator, and if possible, a rechargeable battery. Also, it should have an integrated circuit board that was highly sophisticated, temperature resistant and inexpensive. Furthermore, it was hoped that there would be a timer or alarm. For the working design, morse code would be relayed to the generator for amplification after buttons were pressed. The team thought push buttons were better than scroll wheel as the former was more practical and cheap.

points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You really did a good job on that, my little designers.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place. That's that's a really good good thing.Project Manager: Yes, and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, that's great.Project Manager: you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Abs okay.Marketing: The colour's very attractive. Um the um these buttons uh around here are the muteUser Interface: No, these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here, are the mute buttons.Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're muteUser Interface: Yes, yes.Marketing: So you can push either oneUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter.Marketing: And this brings the menu up on the screenUser Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me This is the menu {disfmarker} yes, yes.Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes,Marketing: Okay.User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels.Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels.Marketing: Right, very good. Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, I have one questionMarketing: yeah.Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons, like that people know, or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does whatUser Interface: Yes, it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons the next is functionality where I I admit I was a little hard on our team here, but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well it's also you can't really try it out uh the other things you have have more {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} are more tangible so from that point of viewMarketing: Yeah. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: but um {disfmarker} I'll give it a three.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Two.Marketing: Two, okay.Industrial Designer: Uh three, mm-hmm.Marketing: Three Okay. Well, um. It looks like we've got got ourselves a pretty good product. Um the functionality's the only place where maybe we have to think about m m maybe, heaven forbid, having another meeting.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} But um otherwise I think we're {disfmarker} we're ready to go to {disfmarker} go with this product. Anybody else have any other comments or any other things that we feel we should evaluateProject Manager: Uh. Here is what we looking at uh satisfaction on for example room for creativity. Um. Is there more room for creativity or are we absolutely happyUser Interface: We can always improve, yes.Industrial Designer: Maybe we can {disfmarker} yeah, include some more buttons and uh umUser Interface: Yes, features.Industrial Designer: yeah features. We can make the buttons {disfmarker} few buttons smaller. Uh I think they are quite big, so I think {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean we can just have small buttons and more buttons in that case. If we want to have more features than that.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Well then again if we're gonna um {vocalsound} do the speech recognition thing we're gon there gonna be some buttons that are gonna have to be added for that for the recording of the the speech.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.User Interface: Yes. Voices.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So that that's where we're gonna have to do {disfmarker} maybe we can

Summarize the recap of the last meeting regarding the presentation by Marketing.

Apart from being small, easy to use and eye-catching, the remote should have buttons, a soft feel and a trendy design, possibly incorporating fruit and vegetable elements. Marketing proposed having one or two star features that the campaign could be built on and speech recognition could be one of the options. Also, the energy source should be a battery. It was highlighted that the remote should get to the market before the competition.

you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You really did a good job on that, my little designers.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place. That's that's a really good good thing.Project Manager: Yes, and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, that's great.Project Manager: you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Abs okay.Marketing: The colour's very attractive. Um the um these buttons uh around here are the muteUser Interface: No, these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here, are the mute buttons.Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're muteUser Interface: Yes, yes.Marketing: So you can push either oneUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter.Marketing: And this brings the menu up on the screenUser Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me This is the menu {disfmarker} yes, yes.Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes,Marketing: Okay.User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels.Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels.Marketing: Right, very good. Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, I have one questionMarketing: yeah.Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons, like that people know, or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does whatUser Interface: Yes, it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. we worked well together as a team, yeah. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I think we {disfmarker} are we happy with the means we used We used whiteboard, we didn't use digital p well digital pens I guess are these things.Marketing: Yeah maybe we could've used the whiteboard a little bit more, yeah,User Interface: Whiteboard more, yes, yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah, probably.Marketing: we didn't use that enough.Project Manager: Yes, we could. Uh, it's maybe not in the best position in the room um you know like sometimes it's positioned so that it's much better visible for everybody and I think from that point of view we sort of ignored it a little bit.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: And we used the slide because it was better positioned.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes, I think so, I think absolutely,Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: No.Marketing: Mm I think that's true mm-hmm.Project Manager: and fortunately we all had slides presentation which made it a little easier.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um did we new {disfmarker} did we find new ideasUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: I think we did.Industrial Designer: Yeah, many.Marketing: I think we were we were very good, yeah, mm.Project Manager: I think we we did, uh in more than one respect and uh so I think we did very well here.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Okay.Project Manager: Are the costs within budget Yes, yes. Uh is the project evaluated Yes.Marketing: Yes, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Um then celebration. {vocalsound}Marketing: Celebration.User Interface: Cel celebration {vocalsound} yes, yes. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Today we have apple juice and after we sell m million of'em we have champagne. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So I {disfmarker} I thank you all very much. Um, I think this was very good and

What did Industrial Designer say about the appearance during the discussion about the design of the prototype

The prototype was attractive, bright blue and snail shaped with buttons in different colours such as yellow. It was compact so it could easily fit in the hand and buttons could be easily accessed. Moreover, the material for the case would be plastic but the buttons would be made with soft rubber. For the light emitting diode of the LED, it would be fluorescent green and it would be a bulb like an ordinary infrared. Last but not least, there would be an oyster-shaped holder for the remote.

you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You really did a good job on that, my little designers.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place. That's that's a really good good thing.Project Manager: Yes, and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, that's great.Project Manager: you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Abs okay.Marketing: The colour's very attractive. Um the um these buttons uh around here are the muteUser Interface: No, these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here, are the mute buttons.Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're muteUser Interface: Yes, yes.Marketing: So you can push either oneUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter.Marketing: And this brings the menu up on the screenUser Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me This is the menu {disfmarker} yes, yes.Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes,Marketing: Okay.User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels.Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels.Marketing: Right, very good. Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, I have one questionMarketing: yeah.Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons, like that people know, or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does whatUser Interface: Yes, it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, will have symbols.Industrial Designer: Ah. Yeah, definitely.Project Manager: Will have symbols so that that {disfmarker} that the user really knows you know and doesn't have to first learn it {disfmarker}User Interface: Yes, which can be easily recognised.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.Marketing: Good point because we need the symbols'cause we're going into an international market we can't have anything that's language dependent.User Interface: Yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah of course, and also {disfmarker}User Interface: Yes.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Yeah. But anyway it would ha i i i it has to have some kind of of symbols, text or something so that people knIndustrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah we can {disfmarker} Text.Marketing: Symbols on it. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes.Industrial Designer: Text that we can have on the case itself,Project Manager: That's right.User Interface: Yes.Industrial Designer: we can {disfmarker} it will be printed on the case and symbols as well as the buttons. Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay, yeah just wanted make sure of that mm-hmm.User Interface: And {disfmarker} and one more feature is we we have a holder for this remote which is an oyster shape.Marketing: Mm,'kay, mm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: A shell shape.Marketing: For the snail, yeah, mm-hmm,Project Manager: Right, mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes, yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah. So it is {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} we have the snail shell.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes, snail shell.Industrial Designer: yeah,Marketing: He goes right back into his shell.Industrial Designer: yeah {disfmarker} shell.Project Manager: Right.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Well you know I think we could do something really funny with this too because the snail is known to be slowIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: and we could have some sort of little comic effect on our marketing about how this is a rapid snail or something like thatUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Mm.User Interface: {vocalsound} Y Yes {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:

What features did User Interface present regarding the design of the prototype

Features of the remote include signal-emitting LED, on-off switch, mute button, nine channel buttons, two buttons for increasing or decreasing volume, two buttons for scrolling up or down channels and menu button at the centre, which would control the colour, sharpness, brightness etc. Also, there would be an elongated shaped swapping button that was slightly flexible. If it was turned to the left, the TV would change to the previous channel that the user was watching and if to the right, the next channel. The remote has an inbuilt voice recognizer that would recognize the user's voice and act accordingly.

you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, we worked well together as a team, yeah. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I think we {disfmarker} are we happy with the means we used We used whiteboard, we didn't use digital p well digital pens I guess are these things.Marketing: Yeah maybe we could've used the whiteboard a little bit more, yeah,User Interface: Whiteboard more, yes, yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah, probably.Marketing: we didn't use that enough.Project Manager: Yes, we could. Uh, it's maybe not in the best position in the room um you know like sometimes it's positioned so that it's much better visible for everybody and I think from that point of view we sort of ignored it a little bit.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: And we used the slide because it was better positioned.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes, I think so, I think absolutely,Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: No.Marketing: Mm I think that's true mm-hmm.Project Manager: and fortunately we all had slides presentation which made it a little easier.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um did we new {disfmarker} did we find new ideasUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: I think we did.Industrial Designer: Yeah, many.Marketing: I think we were we were very good, yeah, mm.Project Manager: I think we we did, uh in more than one respect and uh so I think we did very well here.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Okay.Project Manager: Are the costs within budget Yes, yes. Uh is the project evaluated Yes.Marketing: Yes, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Um then celebration. {vocalsound}Marketing: Celebration.User Interface: Cel celebration {vocalsound} yes, yes. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Today we have apple juice and after we sell m million of'em we have champagne. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So I {disfmarker} I thank you all very much. Um, I think this was very good and it after all, rightProject Manager: No.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Uh, button supplement special colourUser Interface: Speci YesProject Manager: Special formUser Interface: Yes d we do have special form.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: And special material, rubber, wood, yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound} Total seven point six whatever that means.Industrial Designer: Uh, I think that's the price.Project Manager: That's the price.User Interface: One two three four five six seven eight nineProject Manager: MmIndustrial Designer: Maybe it {disfmarker} is it just {disfmarker} nProject Manager: Eight, eight point two. That's {disfmarker}User Interface: Nine points,Project Manager: hmmUser Interface: okay, yes.Project Manager: Eight point two, right So, we {disfmarker} looks like we are well within budget.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay. I guess I should save this I suppose, huhMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Oops. Uh-huh huh huh.User Interface: On the desktop.Project Manager: I just tried that. My documents, computer.Industrial Designer: AMI.Project Manager: My compu Ah oh here it is, yes.Industrial Designer: AMI should forProject Manager: Okay, fine. Save. Okay good, so that's the good news. We gonna be popular.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um. So that uh {disfmarker} I think financing was pretty simple.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Now we would like to have a presentation by the marketing expert on production evaluation.Marketing: Okay, I'll take my file down so you can bring it up.'Kay should be able to get it now.'Kay, why don't you move just to the next slide right away.Project Manager: You wanna go to the next slideMarketing: Yeah right away.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Okay, well uh obviously my method for uh s m the marketing of this thing is first to ask the big question, will it sell And I think we should show this prototype to people from various age and socio-economic groups and see about any fine tuning

What was the feedback regarding the prototype of the remote

Marketing liked how users could reach all the buttons with one thumb, even for someone with a small hand, so users did not need to shift it around or operate with two hands. Also, it was good that the on-off button was in a prominent place and the colours of the remote were attractive. Mute buttons were on either side so it would work for left- or right-handed people. On the other hand, channel buttons would be inscribed with numbers and the rest would be marked with easily recognized symbols that would be ideal for the international market.

points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You really did a good job on that, my little designers.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place. That's that's a really good good thing.Project Manager: Yes, and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, that's great.Project Manager: you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Abs okay.Marketing: The colour's very attractive. Um the um these buttons uh around here are the muteUser Interface: No, these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here, are the mute buttons.Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're muteUser Interface: Yes, yes.Marketing: So you can push either oneUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter.Marketing: And this brings the menu up on the screenUser Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me This is the menu {disfmarker} yes, yes.Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes,Marketing: Okay.User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels.Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels.Marketing: Right, very good. Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, I have one questionMarketing: yeah.Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons, like that people know, or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does whatUser Interface: Yes, it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons we worked well together as a team, yeah. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I think we {disfmarker} are we happy with the means we used We used whiteboard, we didn't use digital p well digital pens I guess are these things.Marketing: Yeah maybe we could've used the whiteboard a little bit more, yeah,User Interface: Whiteboard more, yes, yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah, probably.Marketing: we didn't use that enough.Project Manager: Yes, we could. Uh, it's maybe not in the best position in the room um you know like sometimes it's positioned so that it's much better visible for everybody and I think from that point of view we sort of ignored it a little bit.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: And we used the slide because it was better positioned.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes, I think so, I think absolutely,Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: No.Marketing: Mm I think that's true mm-hmm.Project Manager: and fortunately we all had slides presentation which made it a little easier.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um did we new {disfmarker} did we find new ideasUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: I think we did.Industrial Designer: Yeah, many.Marketing: I think we were we were very good, yeah, mm.Project Manager: I think we we did, uh in more than one respect and uh so I think we did very well here.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Okay.Project Manager: Are the costs within budget Yes, yes. Uh is the project evaluated Yes.Marketing: Yes, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Um then celebration. {vocalsound}Marketing: Celebration.User Interface: Cel celebration {vocalsound} yes, yes. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Today we have apple juice and after we sell m million of'em we have champagne. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So I {disfmarker} I thank you all very much. Um, I think this was very good and

What did Marketing suggest during giving feedback for the prototype of the remote

Marketing suggested that they could do something funny for the shell as the snail was known to be slow and they could have a comic effect about how this was a rapid snail. User Interface and Industrial Designer agreed.

you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You really did a good job on that, my little designers.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place. That's that's a really good good thing.Project Manager: Yes, and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, that's great.Project Manager: you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Abs okay.Marketing: The colour's very attractive. Um the um these buttons uh around here are the muteUser Interface: No, these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here, are the mute buttons.Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're muteUser Interface: Yes, yes.Marketing: So you can push either oneUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter.Marketing: And this brings the menu up on the screenUser Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me This is the menu {disfmarker} yes, yes.Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes,Marketing: Okay.User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels.Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels.Marketing: Right, very good. Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, I have one questionMarketing: yeah.Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons, like that people know, or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does whatUser Interface: Yes, it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons umIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: I think we did come up with a new product that's uh feasible. Feasible from the production point of view and feasible from a marketing point of view.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So, thank you.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Thank you.Industrial Designer: Thank you very much.Marketing: Okay. Watch I I have my cord behind you here.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: I always get it on here, but getting it off is {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Do we {disfmarker} do we have some time left Uh {disfmarker} you have {disfmarker}User Interface: They say it's forty minutes.Project Manager: Ah yes we have time laterMarketing: But we we were told we could end the final meeting at any time, whenever we felt we were finished.Project Manager: but we don't {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Oh, alright.Marketing: It'll take me the rest of the time to get my microphone out from my necklace. {vocalsound} Oh, there we go.

What were the special features for the remote discussed during feedback for the prototype

Voice recognition would be a major selling point as it was unusual and there were no remotes that had this function in the same price range. Another selling point would be its appearance as it would be the cutest remote control. The snail image could be used as a visual attraction. Practicality would not be one of its special features because all competition would feature this.

points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You really did a good job on that, my little designers.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place. That's that's a really good good thing.Project Manager: Yes, and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, that's great.Project Manager: you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Abs okay.Marketing: The colour's very attractive. Um the um these buttons uh around here are the muteUser Interface: No, these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here, are the mute buttons.Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're muteUser Interface: Yes, yes.Marketing: So you can push either oneUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter.Marketing: And this brings the menu up on the screenUser Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me This is the menu {disfmarker} yes, yes.Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes,Marketing: Okay.User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels.Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels.Marketing: Right, very good. Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, I have one questionMarketing: yeah.Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons, like that people know, or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does whatUser Interface: Yes, it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons we worked well together as a team, yeah. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I think we {disfmarker} are we happy with the means we used We used whiteboard, we didn't use digital p well digital pens I guess are these things.Marketing: Yeah maybe we could've used the whiteboard a little bit more, yeah,User Interface: Whiteboard more, yes, yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah, probably.Marketing: we didn't use that enough.Project Manager: Yes, we could. Uh, it's maybe not in the best position in the room um you know like sometimes it's positioned so that it's much better visible for everybody and I think from that point of view we sort of ignored it a little bit.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: And we used the slide because it was better positioned.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes, I think so, I think absolutely,Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: No.Marketing: Mm I think that's true mm-hmm.Project Manager: and fortunately we all had slides presentation which made it a little easier.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um did we new {disfmarker} did we find new ideasUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: I think we did.Industrial Designer: Yeah, many.Marketing: I think we were we were very good, yeah, mm.Project Manager: I think we we did, uh in more than one respect and uh so I think we did very well here.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Okay.Project Manager: Are the costs within budget Yes, yes. Uh is the project evaluated Yes.Marketing: Yes, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Um then celebration. {vocalsound}Marketing: Celebration.User Interface: Cel celebration {vocalsound} yes, yes. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Today we have apple juice and after we sell m million of'em we have champagne. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So I {disfmarker} I thank you all very much. Um, I think this was very good and

Summarize the financing of the remote.

Battery would be the energy source and the electronics would be regular chips on print. For the case, it would be double-curved and made from plastic in special colours, whereas buttons would come in different forms and colour and would be made in rubber or wood. In addition, there would be no clock. With the cost of eight twenty, the remote was within budget with the cost of voice recognizer excluded. Only four thirty euros was left to cover it so they would have to settle with what they get within the budget with no money for other special features.

you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You really did a good job on that, my little designers.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place. That's that's a really good good thing.Project Manager: Yes, and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, that's great.Project Manager: you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Abs okay.Marketing: The colour's very attractive. Um the um these buttons uh around here are the muteUser Interface: No, these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here, are the mute buttons.Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're muteUser Interface: Yes, yes.Marketing: So you can push either oneUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter.Marketing: And this brings the menu up on the screenUser Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me This is the menu {disfmarker} yes, yes.Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes,Marketing: Okay.User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels.Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels.Marketing: Right, very good. Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, I have one questionMarketing: yeah.Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons, like that people know, or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does whatUser Interface: Yes, it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons it after all, rightProject Manager: No.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Uh, button supplement special colourUser Interface: Speci YesProject Manager: Special formUser Interface: Yes d we do have special form.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: And special material, rubber, wood, yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound} Total seven point six whatever that means.Industrial Designer: Uh, I think that's the price.Project Manager: That's the price.User Interface: One two three four five six seven eight nineProject Manager: MmIndustrial Designer: Maybe it {disfmarker} is it just {disfmarker} nProject Manager: Eight, eight point two. That's {disfmarker}User Interface: Nine points,Project Manager: hmmUser Interface: okay, yes.Project Manager: Eight point two, right So, we {disfmarker} looks like we are well within budget.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay. I guess I should save this I suppose, huhMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Oops. Uh-huh huh huh.User Interface: On the desktop.Project Manager: I just tried that. My documents, computer.Industrial Designer: AMI.Project Manager: My compu Ah oh here it is, yes.Industrial Designer: AMI should forProject Manager: Okay, fine. Save. Okay good, so that's the good news. We gonna be popular.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um. So that uh {disfmarker} I think financing was pretty simple.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Now we would like to have a presentation by the marketing expert on production evaluation.Marketing: Okay, I'll take my file down so you can bring it up.'Kay should be able to get it now.'Kay, why don't you move just to the next slide right away.Project Manager: You wanna go to the next slideMarketing: Yeah right away.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Okay, well uh obviously my method for uh s m the marketing of this thing is first to ask the big question, will it sell And I think we should show this prototype to people from various age and socio-economic groups and see about any fine tuning

What were Marketing's comments on the remote during the project evaluation

The prototype should be shown to people of various age and socio-economic groups to see if there should be any fine-tuning. Also, it should be shown to consumer research groups for feedback. Marketing concluded that the prototype reached the goal of being biomorphic, soft and compact with bright and warm colours and felt good in hands. All in all, Marketing believed that it was a great product and would be saleable in the market.

points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You really did a good job on that, my little designers.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place. That's that's a really good good thing.Project Manager: Yes, and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, that's great.Project Manager: you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Abs okay.Marketing: The colour's very attractive. Um the um these buttons uh around here are the muteUser Interface: No, these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here, are the mute buttons.Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're muteUser Interface: Yes, yes.Marketing: So you can push either oneUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter.Marketing: And this brings the menu up on the screenUser Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me This is the menu {disfmarker} yes, yes.Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes,Marketing: Okay.User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels.Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels.Marketing: Right, very good. Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, I have one questionMarketing: yeah.Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons, like that people know, or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does whatUser Interface: Yes, it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons we worked well together as a team, yeah. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I think we {disfmarker} are we happy with the means we used We used whiteboard, we didn't use digital p well digital pens I guess are these things.Marketing: Yeah maybe we could've used the whiteboard a little bit more, yeah,User Interface: Whiteboard more, yes, yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah, probably.Marketing: we didn't use that enough.Project Manager: Yes, we could. Uh, it's maybe not in the best position in the room um you know like sometimes it's positioned so that it's much better visible for everybody and I think from that point of view we sort of ignored it a little bit.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: And we used the slide because it was better positioned.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes, I think so, I think absolutely,Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: No.Marketing: Mm I think that's true mm-hmm.Project Manager: and fortunately we all had slides presentation which made it a little easier.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um did we new {disfmarker} did we find new ideasUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: I think we did.Industrial Designer: Yeah, many.Marketing: I think we were we were very good, yeah, mm.Project Manager: I think we we did, uh in more than one respect and uh so I think we did very well here.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Okay.Project Manager: Are the costs within budget Yes, yes. Uh is the project evaluated Yes.Marketing: Yes, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Um then celebration. {vocalsound}Marketing: Celebration.User Interface: Cel celebration {vocalsound} yes, yes. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Today we have apple juice and after we sell m million of'em we have champagne. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So I {disfmarker} I thank you all very much. Um, I think this was very good and

Summarize the product evaluation that was during the project evaluation.

On a scale of one to seven, with one being good and seven being the worst, everyone rated the shape and colour of the remote with a one. The size was given a mark of four by Marketing, a two by Project Manager and the others gave it a one. For the feel, which included texture and comfort, it scored a three with User Interface and a two for the rest. Functionality was given a two by User Interface and Marketing and a three by the other two. All in all, the team was satisfied with the product.

you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You really did a good job on that, my little designers.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place. That's that's a really good good thing.Project Manager: Yes, and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, that's great.Project Manager: you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Abs okay.Marketing: The colour's very attractive. Um the um these buttons uh around here are the muteUser Interface: No, these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here, are the mute buttons.Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're muteUser Interface: Yes, yes.Marketing: So you can push either oneUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter.Marketing: And this brings the menu up on the screenUser Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me This is the menu {disfmarker} yes, yes.Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes,Marketing: Okay.User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels.Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels.Marketing: Right, very good. Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, I have one questionMarketing: yeah.Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons, like that people know, or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does whatUser Interface: Yes, it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. we worked well together as a team, yeah. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I think we {disfmarker} are we happy with the means we used We used whiteboard, we didn't use digital p well digital pens I guess are these things.Marketing: Yeah maybe we could've used the whiteboard a little bit more, yeah,User Interface: Whiteboard more, yes, yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah, probably.Marketing: we didn't use that enough.Project Manager: Yes, we could. Uh, it's maybe not in the best position in the room um you know like sometimes it's positioned so that it's much better visible for everybody and I think from that point of view we sort of ignored it a little bit.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: And we used the slide because it was better positioned.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes, I think so, I think absolutely,Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: No.Marketing: Mm I think that's true mm-hmm.Project Manager: and fortunately we all had slides presentation which made it a little easier.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um did we new {disfmarker} did we find new ideasUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: I think we did.Industrial Designer: Yeah, many.Marketing: I think we were we were very good, yeah, mm.Project Manager: I think we we did, uh in more than one respect and uh so I think we did very well here.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Okay.Project Manager: Are the costs within budget Yes, yes. Uh is the project evaluated Yes.Marketing: Yes, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Um then celebration. {vocalsound}Marketing: Celebration.User Interface: Cel celebration {vocalsound} yes, yes. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Today we have apple juice and after we sell m million of'em we have champagne. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So I {disfmarker} I thank you all very much. Um, I think this was very good and

What was discussed for improvement of the remote during project evaluation

Industrial Designer suggested that there could be more buttons and the buttons could be smaller. If having the speech recognition feature was feasible, buttons would be added for recording speech so Marketing suggested that one of the mute buttons could be eliminated to make room and Industrial Designer and User Interface agreed. Marketing also suggested volume control could be put on one button.

you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. we worked well together as a team, yeah. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I think we {disfmarker} are we happy with the means we used We used whiteboard, we didn't use digital p well digital pens I guess are these things.Marketing: Yeah maybe we could've used the whiteboard a little bit more, yeah,User Interface: Whiteboard more, yes, yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah, probably.Marketing: we didn't use that enough.Project Manager: Yes, we could. Uh, it's maybe not in the best position in the room um you know like sometimes it's positioned so that it's much better visible for everybody and I think from that point of view we sort of ignored it a little bit.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: And we used the slide because it was better positioned.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes, I think so, I think absolutely,Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: No.Marketing: Mm I think that's true mm-hmm.Project Manager: and fortunately we all had slides presentation which made it a little easier.Industrial Designer: Hmm.Project Manager: Um did we new {disfmarker} did we find new ideasUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: I think we did.Industrial Designer: Yeah, many.Marketing: I think we were we were very good, yeah, mm.Project Manager: I think we we did, uh in more than one respect and uh so I think we did very well here.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Okay.Project Manager: Are the costs within budget Yes, yes. Uh is the project evaluated Yes.Marketing: Yes, yes.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Um then celebration. {vocalsound}Marketing: Celebration.User Interface: Cel celebration {vocalsound} yes, yes. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Today we have apple juice and after we sell m million of'em we have champagne. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So I {disfmarker} I thank you all very much. Um, I think this was very good and Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You really did a good job on that, my little designers.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place. That's that's a really good good thing.Project Manager: Yes, and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, that's great.Project Manager: you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Abs okay.Marketing: The colour's very attractive. Um the um these buttons uh around here are the muteUser Interface: No, these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here, are the mute buttons.Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're muteUser Interface: Yes, yes.Marketing: So you can push either oneUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter.Marketing: And this brings the menu up on the screenUser Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me This is the menu {disfmarker} yes, yes.Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes,Marketing: Okay.User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels.Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels.Marketing: Right, very good. Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, I have one questionMarketing: yeah.Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons, like that people know, or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does whatUser Interface: Yes, it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons

What was the feedback for leadership, teamwork and means used during the pro evaluation

Marketing, User Interface and Industrial Designer thought Project Manager did a good job. Project Manager believed that the teamwork was great and this opinion was echoed by the other three team members. Whiteboard was used during the meeting but digital pens were not and the team agreed that they could have used the whiteboard a bit more. The team mostly used the slide because it was better positioned.

points. So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please. Okay, so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one. That's really, really excellent shape. The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the, for the marketing, these aren't i in how I feel. I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven. I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: And our colour I think is great. The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there. And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible. And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality, obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it.Project Manager: Um I just realised one thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser.Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Ah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that, too.Marketing: Well, um we had what, eight eight euros twenty as our costProject Manager: Eight, eight twenty, yes.Industrial Designer: Eight twenty so {disfmarker}Marketing: And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend.Industrial Designer: We have um four euros, you touch it.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led, for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote. Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared.Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah, okay, mm-hmm.Project Manager: mm-hmm.User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Now we have included another feature that is the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: on the side of the model. Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels. Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: What kind of buttonUser Interface: Menu button.Project Manager: Menu Uh menu th menu, uh one one.User Interface: Yes, menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button. {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour, sharpness, brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm. Of the screen. Mm, mm-hmm.User Interface: of this uh picture. We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button. Now this is uh a special, special feature which we have included. Now this button is {vocalsound} Yeah, of course, yeah.Marketing: you know that would, that would really work.Project Manager: Now what, what are our special features for the marketingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big selling pointIndustrial Designer: Mm. Mm-hmm.Marketing:'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range.Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: And then, and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use.Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know.Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical. I think we have to, we have to dwell on on on the appearance.Project Manager: Colours. Mm-hmm.Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest.Marketing: cutest remote control on the block.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image, play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I think those are the two things to push. The look and the voice recognition. They're gonna be our two selling points.Project Manager: Okay, now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation, aren't IProject Manager: No, now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing. {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah, but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well, there is a production evaluation.Marketing: NoProject Manager: Is that youMarketing: Yeah, that's me.Project Manager: But that's after the financing.Marketing: Oh, okay.Project Manager: See Fi seeMarketing: Sorry, sorry. Mm-mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um. {vocalsound} Okay, we had looks and voice recognition. Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is. Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You really did a good job on that, my little designers.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place. That's that's a really good good thing.Project Manager: Yes, and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, that's great.Project Manager: you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Abs okay.Marketing: The colour's very attractive. Um the um these buttons uh around here are the muteUser Interface: No, these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here, are the mute buttons.Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're muteUser Interface: Yes, yes.Marketing: So you can push either oneUser Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter.Marketing: And this brings the menu up on the screenUser Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me This is the menu {disfmarker} yes, yes.Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes,Marketing: Okay.User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels.Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels.Marketing: Right, very good. Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, I have one questionMarketing: yeah.Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons, like that people know, or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does whatUser Interface: Yes, it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons it after all, rightProject Manager: No.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Uh, button supplement special colourUser Interface: Speci YesProject Manager: Special formUser Interface: Yes d we do have special form.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: And special material, rubber, wood, yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound} Total seven point six whatever that means.Industrial Designer: Uh, I think that's the price.Project Manager: That's the price.User Interface: One two three four five six seven eight nineProject Manager: MmIndustrial Designer: Maybe it {disfmarker} is it just {disfmarker} nProject Manager: Eight, eight point two. That's {disfmarker}User Interface: Nine points,Project Manager: hmmUser Interface: okay, yes.Project Manager: Eight point two, right So, we {disfmarker} looks like we are well within budget.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay. I guess I should save this I suppose, huhMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Oops. Uh-huh huh huh.User Interface: On the desktop.Project Manager: I just tried that. My documents, computer.Industrial Designer: AMI.Project Manager: My compu Ah oh here it is, yes.Industrial Designer: AMI should forProject Manager: Okay, fine. Save. Okay good, so that's the good news. We gonna be popular.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um. So that uh {disfmarker} I think financing was pretty simple.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Now we would like to have a presentation by the marketing expert on production evaluation.Marketing: Okay, I'll take my file down so you can bring it up.'Kay should be able to get it now.'Kay, why don't you move just to the next slide right away.Project Manager: You wanna go to the next slideMarketing: Yeah right away.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Okay, well uh obviously my method for uh s m the marketing of this thing is first to ask the big question, will it sell And I think we should show this prototype to people from various age and socio-economic groups and see about any fine tuning

Summarize the whole meeting.

Project Manager first recapped the previous meeting, concluding that the remote should be compact, user-friendly and could function like speech recognition. Next, the presentation of the bright blue snail shaped prototype was made by Industrial Designer and User Interface, introducing the appearance and features of the remote. Then, feedback was given regarding the prototype, which was mainly positive and speech recognition and cute appearance were decided as its star feature. Afterwards, the team discussed the financing of the remote, which should be within the budget of twelve fifty euros. Finally, the meeting ended with a project evaluation, which everyone was satisfied with the product and dynamic of the team, and team building.

{disfmarker}Grad H: Yep. So, as {disfmarker} as I said, we'll do a field trip and see if we can get all of the same mike that's more comfortable than {disfmarker} than these things, which I think are horrible.Postdoc G: OK. Good.Grad H: So.PhD A: Great, thank you very much.PhD E: Especially for people with big heads.PhD A: It's makes our job a lot easier.Professor B: OK. OK.Grad H: And, you know, we're researchers, so we all have big heads.Professor B: OK.PhD E: Yeah.Professor B: Yeah. Uh, OK, second item was the, uh, NIST visit, and what's going on there.Postdoc G: Yeah. OK, so, um, uh, Jonathan Fiscus is coming on the second of February and I've spoken with, uh, {pause} u u a lot of people here, not everyone. Um, and, um, he expressed an interest in seeing the room and in, um, seeing a demonstration of the modified multitrans, which I'll mention in a second, and also, um, he was interested in the pre - segmentation and then he's also interested in the transcription conventions.Grad H: Mm - hmm.Postdoc G: And, um {disfmarker} So, um, it seems to me in terms of like, um, i i it wou You know, OK. So the room, it's things like the audio and c and audi audio and acoustic {disfmarker} acoustic properties of the room and how it {disfmarker} how the recordings are done, and that kind of thing. And, um. OK, in terms of the multi - trans, well that {disfmarker} that's being modified by Dave Gelbart to, uh, handle multi - channel recording.Grad H: Oh, I should've {disfmarker} I was just thinking I should have invited him to this meeting. I forgot to do it.Postdoc G: Yeah, OK.Grad H: So.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc G: Yeah. Well that's OK, I mean we'll the fall for, uh, sort of a five month, uh, sabbatical. So he might be around. Get him to give some talks and so on. But anyway, he might be interested in {pause} this stuff.PhD D: Mm - hmm.PhD E: That {disfmarker} that reminds me, I had a {disfmarker} a thought of an interesting project that somebody could try to do with {pause} the data from here, either using, you know, the {disfmarker} the mikes on the table or using signal energies from the head worn mikes,PhD D: Mm - hmm.PhD E: and that is to try to construct a map of where people were sitting,Professor B: Right.PhD D: Uh - huh.PhD E: uh, based on {disfmarker}Grad H: Well Dan {disfmarker} Dan had worked on that. Dan Ellis,PhD D: Uh - huh.PhD E: Oh, did he Oh, that's interesting.Grad H: yeah. So that {disfmarker} that's the cross - correlation stuff, was {disfmarker} was doing b beam - forming.PhD D: Yeah.PhD E: And so you could plot out who was sitting next to whoProfessor B: A little bit,PhD E: and {disfmarker}Professor B: I mean, he didn't do a very extreme thing but just {disfmarker} it was just sort ofPhD D: Yeah, yeah.Grad H: No, he did start on it.Professor B: e e given that, the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the block of wood with the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the two mikes {comment} on either side,Grad H: Mm - hmm.Professor B: if I'm speaking, or if you're speaking, or someone over there is speaking, it {disfmarker} if you look at cross - correlation functions, you end up with a {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: if {disfmarker} if someone who was on the axis between the two is talking, then you {disfmarker} you get a big peak there. And if {disfmarker} if someone's talking on something I guess I didn't put in the list but, uh, on that, uh, same day later on in {disfmarker} or maybe it's {disfmarker} No, actually {pause} it's this week, uh, Dave Gelbart and I will be, uh, visiting with John Canny who i you know, is a CS professor,Postdoc G: Oh.Professor B: who's interested in ar in array microphones.Grad H: HCC. Oh, he's doing array mikes.Professor B: Yeah. And so we wanna see what commonality there is here. You know, maybe they'd wanna stick an array mike here when we're doing thingsPhD E: That would be cool.Grad H: Yeah, that would be neat.Professor B: or {disfmarker} or maybe it's {disfmarker} it's not a specific array microphone they wantPhD D: Yeah.PhD E: That would be really neat.Professor B: but they might wanna just, {disfmarker} uh, you know, you could imagine them taking the four signals from these {disfmarker} these table mikes and trying to do something with them {disfmarker} Um, I also had a discussion {disfmarker} So, w uh, we'll be over {disfmarker} over there talking with him, um, after class on Friday. Um, we'll let you know what {disfmarker} what goes with that. Also had a completely unrelated thing. I had a, uh, discussion today with, uh, Birger Kollmeier who's a, uh, a German, uh, scientist who's got a fair sized group {vocalsound} doing a range of things. It's sort of auditory related, largely for hearing aids and so on. But {disfmarker} but, uh, he does stuff with auditory models and he's very interested in directionality, and location, and {disfmarker} and, uh, head models and {pause} microphone things. And so, uh, he's {disfmarker} he and possibly a student, there w there's, uh, a student of his who gave a talk here last year, uh, may come here, uh, in a microphone array in here pretty easily and, uh, have it mixed to {disfmarker} to one channel of some sort.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor B: But, e I think for I mean, how we're gonna decide {disfmarker} For {disfmarker} for maximum flexibility later you really don't want to end up with just one channel that's pointed in the direction of the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the p the person with the maximum energy or something like that. I mean, you {disfmarker} you want actually to {disfmarker} you want actually to have multiple channels being recorded so that you can {disfmarker} And to do that, it {disfmarker} we're going to end up greatly increasing the disk space that we use up, we also only have boards that will take up to sixteen channels and in {pause} this meeting, we've got eight people and {disfmarker} and six mikes. And there we're already using fourteen.Grad H: And we actually only have fifteen.Professor B: EGrad H: One of them's {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah.Grad H: Details.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor B: Yeah.Grad H: But fifteen, not sixteen.PhD A: Well if there's a way to say time {disfmarker} to sort of solve each of these f those {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah.PhD A: So suppose you can get an array in because there's some person at Berkeley who's interested and has some {pause} equipment, uh, and suppose we can {disfmarker} as we save it we can, you know, transfer it off to some other place that {disfmarker} that holds this {disfmarker} this data, who's interested, and even if ICSI it itself isn't. Um, and it {disfmarker} it seems like as long as we can time align the beginning, do we need to mix it with the rest I don't know. You know TheProfessor B: Yeah. So I think you'd need lapel mike, uh, isn't as good as you would like. And so, uh, it {disfmarker} it'd be better if we had close talking mikes for everybody. RightPhD A: Ri - um,Professor B: Is that {disfmarker} is that basically the pointPhD A: yeah, the {disfmarker} And actually in addition to that, that the {disfmarker} the close talking mikes are worn in such a way as to best capture the signal. And the reason here is just that for the people doing work not on microphones but on sort of like dialogue and so forth, uh {disfmarker} or and even on prosody, which Don is gonna be working on soon, it adds this extra, you know, vari variable for each speaker to {disfmarker} to deal with when the microphones aren't similar.Professor B: Mm - hmm.Grad H: Right.PhD A: So {disfmarker} And I also talked to Mari this morning and she also had a strong preference for doing that. And in fact she said that that's useful for them to know in starting to collect their data too.Professor B: Mm - hmm. Right, so one thGrad H: Well, so {disfmarker}Professor B: uh, well one thing I was gonna say was that, um, i we could get more, uh, of the head mounted microphones even beyond the number of radio channels we have because I think whether it's radio or wire is probably second - order. And the main thing is having the microphone close to you,PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor B: u although, not too close.Grad H: Right, so, uh, actually the way Jose is wearing his is {disfmarker} is c {pause} correct.PhD D: Yeah. Is {disfmarker}Grad H: The good way. So you want to {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah.PhD D: I it's not cor it's correctProfessor B: Is.Grad H: Yeah, th that's good.Professor B:

What did PhD A say about microphones

Use of dissimilar microphones adds an extra, unwanted variable to individual speaker recordings. Similarly, differences in the type of recording equipment used and the manner in which microphones are worn by speakers causes problems for the transcription effort.

{disfmarker}Grad H: Yep. So, as {disfmarker} as I said, we'll do a field trip and see if we can get all of the same mike that's more comfortable than {disfmarker} than these things, which I think are horrible.Postdoc G: OK. Good.Grad H: So.PhD A: Great, thank you very much.PhD E: Especially for people with big heads.PhD A: It's makes our job a lot easier.Professor B: OK. OK.Grad H: And, you know, we're researchers, so we all have big heads.Professor B: OK.PhD E: Yeah.Professor B: Yeah. Uh, OK, second item was the, uh, NIST visit, and what's going on there.Postdoc G: Yeah. OK, so, um, uh, Jonathan Fiscus is coming on the second of February and I've spoken with, uh, {pause} u u a lot of people here, not everyone. Um, and, um, he expressed an interest in seeing the room and in, um, seeing a demonstration of the modified multitrans, which I'll mention in a second, and also, um, he was interested in the pre - segmentation and then he's also interested in the transcription conventions.Grad H: Mm - hmm.Postdoc G: And, um {disfmarker} So, um, it seems to me in terms of like, um, i i it wou You know, OK. So the room, it's things like the audio and c and audi audio and acoustic {disfmarker} acoustic properties of the room and how it {disfmarker} how the recordings are done, and that kind of thing. And, um. OK, in terms of the multi - trans, well that {disfmarker} that's being modified by Dave Gelbart to, uh, handle multi - channel recording.Grad H: Oh, I should've {disfmarker} I was just thinking I should have invited him to this meeting. I forgot to do it.Postdoc G: Yeah, OK.Grad H: So.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc G: Yeah. Well that's OK, I mean we'll Thank you.Grad F: Yeah.Postdoc G: OK.Professor B: Yeah.Postdoc G: You don't {disfmarker} you don't have to leave for it.Professor B: Yeah, we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker}Postdoc G: But I just {disfmarker}Grad F: Can I verbally consentPostdoc G: you know.Grad H: Well I can't, I'm wired in.Professor B: We {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we don't, uh {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah. You're on recor you're being recordedPostdoc G: oGrad F: Yeah.PhD A: and {disfmarker}Professor B: we don't {disfmarker} we don't perform electro - shock during these meetings,Grad F: I don't care. You can do whatever you want with it.Professor B: and {disfmarker}PhD E: Usually.Grad F: That's fine.Professor B: Yeah. OK. Uh, transcriptions.Postdoc G: Transcriptions, OK. Um, I thought about {disfmarker} there are maybe three aspects of this. So first of all, um, I've got eight transcribers. Uh, seven of them are linguists. One of them is a graduate student in psychology. Um, Each {disfmarker} I gave each of them, uh, their own data set. Two of them have already finished the data sets. And {pause} the meetings run, you know, let's say an hour. Sometimes as man much as an hour and a half.PhD E: How big is the data setPostdoc G: Oh, it's {disfmarker} what I mean is one meeting.PhD E: Ah, OK.Postdoc G: Each {disfmarker} each person got their own meeting. I didn't want to have any conflicts of, you know, of {disfmarker} of when to stop transcribing this one or {disfmarker} So I wanted to keep it clear whose data were whose, and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and so {disfmarker}PhD E: Uh - huh.Postdoc G: And, uh, meetings, you know, I think that they're {disfmarker} they go as long as a {disfmarker} almost two hours in some {disfmarker} in some cases. So, you know, that means {disfmarker} you know, if we've a microphone array in here pretty easily and, uh, have it mixed to {disfmarker} to one channel of some sort.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor B: But, e I think for I mean, how we're gonna decide {disfmarker} For {disfmarker} for maximum flexibility later you really don't want to end up with just one channel that's pointed in the direction of the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the p the person with the maximum energy or something like that. I mean, you {disfmarker} you want actually to {disfmarker} you want actually to have multiple channels being recorded so that you can {disfmarker} And to do that, it {disfmarker} we're going to end up greatly increasing the disk space that we use up, we also only have boards that will take up to sixteen channels and in {pause} this meeting, we've got eight people and {disfmarker} and six mikes. And there we're already using fourteen.Grad H: And we actually only have fifteen.Professor B: EGrad H: One of them's {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah.Grad H: Details.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor B: Yeah.Grad H: But fifteen, not sixteen.PhD A: Well if there's a way to say time {disfmarker} to sort of solve each of these f those {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah.PhD A: So suppose you can get an array in because there's some person at Berkeley who's interested and has some {pause} equipment, uh, and suppose we can {disfmarker} as we save it we can, you know, transfer it off to some other place that {disfmarker} that holds this {disfmarker} this data, who's interested, and even if ICSI it itself isn't. Um, and it {disfmarker} it seems like as long as we can time align the beginning, do we need to mix it with the rest I don't know. You know TheProfessor B: Yeah. So I think you'd need trai training on, so that's a little bit {disfmarker}Grad H: Oh.Postdoc G: Oh, I see.PhD C: It's a little bit at odd to {disfmarker}Postdoc G: Oh, darn. Of course, of course, of course. Yeah, OK.PhD C: Yeah.PhD A: And actually as you get transcripts just, um, for new meetings, {comment} um, we can try {disfmarker}Postdoc G: Uh - huh.PhD A: I mean, the {disfmarker} the more data we have to try the {disfmarker} the alignments on, um, the better. So it'd be good for {disfmarker} just to know as transcriptions are coming through the pipeline from the transcribers, just to sort of {disfmarker} we're playing around with sort of uh, parameters f on the recognizer,Postdoc G: Mm - hmm.PhD A: cuz that would be helpful. Especially as you get, en more voices.Postdoc G: Excellent, good.PhD A: The first meeting had I think just four people,PhD C: Four speakers, yeah.Postdoc G: Mm - hmm.PhD A: yeah.Postdoc G: Yeah, Liz and I spoke d w at some length on Tuesday and {disfmarker} and I {disfmarker} and I was planning to do just a {disfmarker} a preliminary look over of the two that are finished and then give them to you.PhD A: Oh, great, great.Postdoc G: Yeah.PhD A: So.Professor B: That's great. I guess the other thing, I {disfmarker} I can't remember if we discussed this in the meeting but, uh, I know you and I talked about this a little bit, there was an issue of, uh, suppose we get in the, uh, I guess it's enviable position although maybe it's just saying where the weak link is in the chain, uh, where we {disfmarker} we, uh {disfmarker} uh, we have all the data transcribed and we have these transcribers and we were {disfmarker} we're {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} we're still a bit uh, two microphones in the room, that are not quote - unquote standard. So why don't we replace those {disfmarker}Grad H: OK, just two.Professor B: Well, however many we can plug in. You know, if we can plug in three, let's plug in three.Grad H: OK.PhD D: Mm - yeah.Professor B: Also what we've talked before about getting another, uh, radio,Grad H: Right.Professor B: and so then that would be, you know, three {pause} more.Grad H: Right. OK.PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor B: So, uh {disfmarker} so we should go out to our full complement of whatever we can do, but have them all be the same mike. I think the original reason that it was done the other way was because, it w it was sort of an experimental thing and I don't think anybody knew whether people would rather have more variety or {disfmarker} {vocalsound} or, uh, more uniformity,PhD A: Right.Professor B: but {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} but uh, sounds {disfmarker} sounds fine.Grad H: Sounds like uniformity wins.PhD D: Right.PhD A: Well, for short term research it's just {disfmarker} there's just so much effort that would have to be done up front n uh,Professor B: Yeah.Grad H: Well {disfmarker}PhD A: so {disfmarker} yeah, uniformity would be great.Grad H: Yeah.PhD E: Is it because {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you're saying the {disfmarker} for dialogue purposes, so that means that the transcribers are having trouble with those mikes Is that what you meanPhD A: Well Jane would know more about the transcribers.PhD E: Or {disfmarker}Postdoc G: And that's true. I mean, I {disfmarker} we did discuss this. Uh, and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}Grad H: Yep. Couple times.Postdoc G: a couple times, so, um, yeah, the transcribers notice {disfmarker} And in fact there're some where, um {disfmarker} ugh well, I mean there's {disfmarker}

What did the team say about incorporating video recordings

Setting up a microphone array and performing video recordings (in a possible collaboration with NIST) are problematic due to the types of changes in infrastructure they require.

a microphone array in here pretty easily and, uh, have it mixed to {disfmarker} to one channel of some sort.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor B: But, e I think for I mean, how we're gonna decide {disfmarker} For {disfmarker} for maximum flexibility later you really don't want to end up with just one channel that's pointed in the direction of the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the p the person with the maximum energy or something like that. I mean, you {disfmarker} you want actually to {disfmarker} you want actually to have multiple channels being recorded so that you can {disfmarker} And to do that, it {disfmarker} we're going to end up greatly increasing the disk space that we use up, we also only have boards that will take up to sixteen channels and in {pause} this meeting, we've got eight people and {disfmarker} and six mikes. And there we're already using fourteen.Grad H: And we actually only have fifteen.Professor B: EGrad H: One of them's {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah.Grad H: Details.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor B: Yeah.Grad H: But fifteen, not sixteen.PhD A: Well if there's a way to say time {disfmarker} to sort of solve each of these f those {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah.PhD A: So suppose you can get an array in because there's some person at Berkeley who's interested and has some {pause} equipment, uh, and suppose we can {disfmarker} as we save it we can, you know, transfer it off to some other place that {disfmarker} that holds this {disfmarker} this data, who's interested, and even if ICSI it itself isn't. Um, and it {disfmarker} it seems like as long as we can time align the beginning, do we need to mix it with the rest I don't know. You know TheProfessor B: Yeah. So I think you'd need {disfmarker}Grad H: Yep. So, as {disfmarker} as I said, we'll do a field trip and see if we can get all of the same mike that's more comfortable than {disfmarker} than these things, which I think are horrible.Postdoc G: OK. Good.Grad H: So.PhD A: Great, thank you very much.PhD E: Especially for people with big heads.PhD A: It's makes our job a lot easier.Professor B: OK. OK.Grad H: And, you know, we're researchers, so we all have big heads.Professor B: OK.PhD E: Yeah.Professor B: Yeah. Uh, OK, second item was the, uh, NIST visit, and what's going on there.Postdoc G: Yeah. OK, so, um, uh, Jonathan Fiscus is coming on the second of February and I've spoken with, uh, {pause} u u a lot of people here, not everyone. Um, and, um, he expressed an interest in seeing the room and in, um, seeing a demonstration of the modified multitrans, which I'll mention in a second, and also, um, he was interested in the pre - segmentation and then he's also interested in the transcription conventions.Grad H: Mm - hmm.Postdoc G: And, um {disfmarker} So, um, it seems to me in terms of like, um, i i it wou You know, OK. So the room, it's things like the audio and c and audi audio and acoustic {disfmarker} acoustic properties of the room and how it {disfmarker} how the recordings are done, and that kind of thing. And, um. OK, in terms of the multi - trans, well that {disfmarker} that's being modified by Dave Gelbart to, uh, handle multi - channel recording.Grad H: Oh, I should've {disfmarker} I was just thinking I should have invited him to this meeting. I forgot to do it.Postdoc G: Yeah, OK.Grad H: So.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc G: Yeah. Well that's OK, I mean we'll lapel mike, uh, isn't as good as you would like. And so, uh, it {disfmarker} it'd be better if we had close talking mikes for everybody. RightPhD A: Ri - um,Professor B: Is that {disfmarker} is that basically the pointPhD A: yeah, the {disfmarker} And actually in addition to that, that the {disfmarker} the close talking mikes are worn in such a way as to best capture the signal. And the reason here is just that for the people doing work not on microphones but on sort of like dialogue and so forth, uh {disfmarker} or and even on prosody, which Don is gonna be working on soon, it adds this extra, you know, vari variable for each speaker to {disfmarker} to deal with when the microphones aren't similar.Professor B: Mm - hmm.Grad H: Right.PhD A: So {disfmarker} And I also talked to Mari this morning and she also had a strong preference for doing that. And in fact she said that that's useful for them to know in starting to collect their data too.Professor B: Mm - hmm. Right, so one thGrad H: Well, so {disfmarker}Professor B: uh, well one thing I was gonna say was that, um, i we could get more, uh, of the head mounted microphones even beyond the number of radio channels we have because I think whether it's radio or wire is probably second - order. And the main thing is having the microphone close to you,PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor B: u although, not too close.Grad H: Right, so, uh, actually the way Jose is wearing his is {disfmarker} is c {pause} correct.PhD D: Yeah. Is {disfmarker}Grad H: The good way. So you want to {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah.PhD D: I it's not cor it's correctProfessor B: Is.Grad H: Yeah, th that's good.Professor B: comingProfessor B: Uh, uh, John FiscusPostdoc G: Mm - hmm.Professor B: and, uh, I think George Doddington will be around as well. Uh, OK, so we can talk about that. Uh, I guess just hear about how things are going with, uh, uh, the transcriptions. That's right.Postdoc G: Sure. Mm - hmm.Professor B: That would sorta be an obvious thing to discuss. Um, An - anything else, uh, strike anybodyPhD A: Uh, we started {pause} running recognition on {pause} one conversation but it's the r {pause} isn't working yet. So, But if anyone has {disfmarker}Professor B: OK.PhD E: WhaPhD A: uh, the main thing would be if anyone has, um, knowledge about ways to, uh, post - process the wave forms that would give us better recognition, that would be helpful to know about.Professor B: Um,Grad H: Dome yeah, it sounds like a topic of conversation.Professor B: Yeah, so, uh {disfmarker}PhD E: What about, uh, is there anything new with the speech, nonspeech stuffPhD C: Yeah, we're working more on it but, {vocalsound} it's not finished.Professor B: OK. Alright, that seems like a {disfmarker} a good collection of things. And we'll undoubtedly think of {pause} other things.Postdoc G: I had thought under my topic that I would mention the, uh, four items that I {disfmarker} I, uh, put out for being on the agenda f on that meeting, which includes like the pre - segmentation and the {disfmarker} and the developments in multitrans.Professor B: Oh, under the NIST meeting.Postdoc G: Yeah, under the NIST thing.Professor B: OK.Postdoc G: Yeah.Professor B: Alright, why don't we start off with this, u u I guess the order we brought them up seems fine.Postdoc G: Yeah.Professor B: Um, so, better quality close talking mikes. So the one issue was that the {disfmarker} the, uh, uh, two microphones in the room, that are not quote - unquote standard. So why don't we replace those {disfmarker}Grad H: OK, just two.Professor B: Well, however many we can plug in. You know, if we can plug in three, let's plug in three.Grad H: OK.PhD D: Mm - yeah.Professor B: Also what we've talked before about getting another, uh, radio,Grad H: Right.Professor B: and so then that would be, you know, three {pause} more.Grad H: Right. OK.PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor B: So, uh {disfmarker} so we should go out to our full complement of whatever we can do, but have them all be the same mike. I think the original reason that it was done the other way was because, it w it was sort of an experimental thing and I don't think anybody knew whether people would rather have more variety or {disfmarker} {vocalsound} or, uh, more uniformity,PhD A: Right.Professor B: but {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} but uh, sounds {disfmarker} sounds fine.Grad H: Sounds like uniformity wins.PhD D: Right.PhD A: Well, for short term research it's just {disfmarker} there's just so much effort that would have to be done up front n uh,Professor B: Yeah.Grad H: Well {disfmarker}PhD A: so {disfmarker} yeah, uniformity would be great.Grad H: Yeah.PhD E: Is it because {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you're saying the {disfmarker} for dialogue purposes, so that means that the transcribers are having trouble with those mikes Is that what you meanPhD A: Well Jane would know more about the transcribers.PhD E: Or {disfmarker}Postdoc G: And that's true. I mean, I {disfmarker} we did discuss this. Uh, and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}Grad H: Yep. Couple times.Postdoc G: a couple times, so, um, yeah, the transcribers notice {disfmarker} And in fact there're some where, um {disfmarker} ugh well, I mean there's {disfmarker}

What decision was reached about microphones nonuniformity

To achieve greater uniformity in across-speaker recording conditions, the group decided to purchase three additional head-mounted microphones.

who's not talking they're picking up signals from other people {comment} and that's {vocalsound} causing problemsPhD A: R right, although if they're not talking, using the {disfmarker} the inhouse transcriptions, were sort of O K because the t no one transcribed any words there and we throw it out.PhD E: Mm - hmm.PhD A: But if they're talking at all and they're not talking the whole time, so you get some speech and then a" mm - hmm" , and some more speech, so that whole thing is one chunk. And the person in the middle who said only a little bit is picking up the speech around it, that's where it's a big problem.Postdoc G: You know, this does like seem like it would relate to some of what Jose's been working on as well, the encoding of the {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah.Postdoc G: And {disfmarker} and he also, he was {disfmarker}PhD A: The energy,PhD D: Yeah,PhD A: right. Exactly.PhD D: energy.Postdoc G: I was t I was trying to remember, you have this interface where you {disfmarker} i you ha you showed us one time on your laptop that you {disfmarker} you had different visual displays as speech and nonspeech events.PhD D: Yeah, c Yeah. May {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I only display the different colors for the different situation. But, eh, for me and for my problems, is uh {disfmarker} is enough. Because, eh, it's possible, eh, eh, in a simp sample view, uh, to, nnn, to compare with c with the segment, the {disfmarker} the kind of assessment what happened with the {disfmarker} the different parameters. And only with a different bands of color for the, uh, few situation, eh, I consider for acoustic event is enough to @ @.Postdoc G: Mm - hmm.PhD D: I {disfmarker} I comingProfessor B: Uh, uh, John FiscusPostdoc G: Mm - hmm.Professor B: and, uh, I think George Doddington will be around as well. Uh, OK, so we can talk about that. Uh, I guess just hear about how things are going with, uh, uh, the transcriptions. That's right.Postdoc G: Sure. Mm - hmm.Professor B: That would sorta be an obvious thing to discuss. Um, An - anything else, uh, strike anybodyPhD A: Uh, we started {pause} running recognition on {pause} one conversation but it's the r {pause} isn't working yet. So, But if anyone has {disfmarker}Professor B: OK.PhD E: WhaPhD A: uh, the main thing would be if anyone has, um, knowledge about ways to, uh, post - process the wave forms that would give us better recognition, that would be helpful to know about.Professor B: Um,Grad H: Dome yeah, it sounds like a topic of conversation.Professor B: Yeah, so, uh {disfmarker}PhD E: What about, uh, is there anything new with the speech, nonspeech stuffPhD C: Yeah, we're working more on it but, {vocalsound} it's not finished.Professor B: OK. Alright, that seems like a {disfmarker} a good collection of things. And we'll undoubtedly think of {pause} other things.Postdoc G: I had thought under my topic that I would mention the, uh, four items that I {disfmarker} I, uh, put out for being on the agenda f on that meeting, which includes like the pre - segmentation and the {disfmarker} and the developments in multitrans.Professor B: Oh, under the NIST meeting.Postdoc G: Yeah, under the NIST thing.Professor B: OK.Postdoc G: Yeah.Professor B: Alright, why don't we start off with this, u u I guess the order we brought them up seems fine.Postdoc G: Yeah.Professor B: Um, so, better quality close talking mikes. So the one issue was that the {disfmarker} the, uh, {disfmarker}Grad H: Sorry.Postdoc G: Yeah, and it's t and it looks really great. He {disfmarker} he has a prototype. I {disfmarker} I, uh, @ @ {comment} didn't {disfmarker} didn't see it, uh, yesterday but I'm going to see it today. And, uh, that's {disfmarker} that will enable us to do {pause} nice um, tight time marking of the beginning and ending of overlapping segments. At present it's not possible with limitations of {disfmarker} of the, uh, original {pause} design of the software. And um. So, I don't know. In terms of, like, pre - segmentation, that {disfmarker} that continues to be, um, a terrific asset to the {disfmarker} to the transcribers. Do you {disfmarker} I know that you're al also supplementing it further. Do you want to mention something about that c Thilo, or {disfmarker}PhD C: Um, yeah. What {disfmarker} what I'm doing right now is I'm trying to include some information about which channel, uh, there's some speech in. But that's not working at the moment. I'm just trying to do this by comparing energies, uh {disfmarker} normalizing energies and comparing energies of the different channels.Postdoc G: OK.PhD C: And so to {disfmarker} to give the transcribers some information in which channel there's {disfmarker} there's speech in addition to {disfmarker} to the thing we {disfmarker} we did now which is just, uh, speech - nonspeech detection on the mixed file. So I'm {disfmarker} I'm relying on {disfmarker} on the segmentation of the mixed filePostdoc G: This is good. Mm - hmm.PhD C: but I'm {disfmarker} I'm trying to subdivide the speech portions into different portions if there is some activity in {disfmarker} in different channels.Postdoc G: Excellent, so this'd be like w e providing also speaker ID {pause} potentially.PhD C: But {disfmarker} Yeah. Yeah.Postdoc G: Wonderful. Wonderful.Professor B: Um, Thank you.Grad F: Yeah.Postdoc G: OK.Professor B: Yeah.Postdoc G: You don't {disfmarker} you don't have to leave for it.Professor B: Yeah, we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker}Postdoc G: But I just {disfmarker}Grad F: Can I verbally consentPostdoc G: you know.Grad H: Well I can't, I'm wired in.Professor B: We {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we don't, uh {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah. You're on recor you're being recordedPostdoc G: oGrad F: Yeah.PhD A: and {disfmarker}Professor B: we don't {disfmarker} we don't perform electro - shock during these meetings,Grad F: I don't care. You can do whatever you want with it.Professor B: and {disfmarker}PhD E: Usually.Grad F: That's fine.Professor B: Yeah. OK. Uh, transcriptions.Postdoc G: Transcriptions, OK. Um, I thought about {disfmarker} there are maybe three aspects of this. So first of all, um, I've got eight transcribers. Uh, seven of them are linguists. One of them is a graduate student in psychology. Um, Each {disfmarker} I gave each of them, uh, their own data set. Two of them have already finished the data sets. And {pause} the meetings run, you know, let's say an hour. Sometimes as man much as an hour and a half.PhD E: How big is the data setPostdoc G: Oh, it's {disfmarker} what I mean is one meeting.PhD E: Ah, OK.Postdoc G: Each {disfmarker} each person got their own meeting. I didn't want to have any conflicts of, you know, of {disfmarker} of when to stop transcribing this one or {disfmarker} So I wanted to keep it clear whose data were whose, and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and so {disfmarker}PhD E: Uh - huh.Postdoc G: And, uh, meetings, you know, I think that they're {disfmarker} they go as long as a {disfmarker} almost two hours in some {disfmarker} in some cases. So, you know, that means {disfmarker} you know, if we've {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I see that, eh, you are considering now, eh, a very sophisticated, eh, ehm, eh, @ @ {comment} set of, eh, graphic s eh, eh, ehm, si symbols to {disfmarker} to transcribe. No Because, uh, before, you {disfmarker} you are talking about the {disfmarker} the possibility to include in the Transcriber program eh, um, a set of symbols, of graphic symbol to {disfmarker} t to mark the different situations during the transcriptionPostdoc G: Oh, I w Uh - huh.PhD D: during the transcription. NoPostdoc G: Well, you're saying {disfmarker} So, uh, symbols for differences between laugh, and sigh, and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and slam the door and stuffPhD D: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The s the symbols, you {disfmarker} you talk of before.Postdoc G: Or some other kind of thingPhD D: No To {disfmarker} to mark {disfmarker}Postdoc G: Well, I wouldn't say {vocalsound} symbols so much. The {disfmarker} the main change that I {disfmarker} that I see in the interface is {disfmarker} is just that we'll be able to more finely c uh, time things.PhD D: Yeah. Yeah.Postdoc G: But I {disfmarker} I also st there was another aspect of your work that I was thinking about when I was talking to youPhD A: Hmm.Postdoc G: which is that it sounded to me, Liz, as though you {disfmarker} and, uh, maybe I didn't q understand this, but it sounded to me as though part of the analysis that you're doing involves taking segments which are of a particular type and putting them together.PhD D: Yeah.Postdoc G: And th so if you have like a p a s you know, speech from one speaker, {pause} then you cut out the part that's not that speaker,PhD A: Mm - hmm.Postdoc G: and you combine segments from {pause} that same speaker to

What was said about IBM transcription

IBM has a team of people employed to transcribe meeting data, and who are transcribing single versus multiple channels.

{disfmarker}Grad H: Yep. So, as {disfmarker} as I said, we'll do a field trip and see if we can get all of the same mike that's more comfortable than {disfmarker} than these things, which I think are horrible.Postdoc G: OK. Good.Grad H: So.PhD A: Great, thank you very much.PhD E: Especially for people with big heads.PhD A: It's makes our job a lot easier.Professor B: OK. OK.Grad H: And, you know, we're researchers, so we all have big heads.Professor B: OK.PhD E: Yeah.Professor B: Yeah. Uh, OK, second item was the, uh, NIST visit, and what's going on there.Postdoc G: Yeah. OK, so, um, uh, Jonathan Fiscus is coming on the second of February and I've spoken with, uh, {pause} u u a lot of people here, not everyone. Um, and, um, he expressed an interest in seeing the room and in, um, seeing a demonstration of the modified multitrans, which I'll mention in a second, and also, um, he was interested in the pre - segmentation and then he's also interested in the transcription conventions.Grad H: Mm - hmm.Postdoc G: And, um {disfmarker} So, um, it seems to me in terms of like, um, i i it wou You know, OK. So the room, it's things like the audio and c and audi audio and acoustic {disfmarker} acoustic properties of the room and how it {disfmarker} how the recordings are done, and that kind of thing. And, um. OK, in terms of the multi - trans, well that {disfmarker} that's being modified by Dave Gelbart to, uh, handle multi - channel recording.Grad H: Oh, I should've {disfmarker} I was just thinking I should have invited him to this meeting. I forgot to do it.Postdoc G: Yeah, OK.Grad H: So.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc G: Yeah. Well that's OK, I mean we'll Thank you.Grad F: Yeah.Postdoc G: OK.Professor B: Yeah.Postdoc G: You don't {disfmarker} you don't have to leave for it.Professor B: Yeah, we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker}Postdoc G: But I just {disfmarker}Grad F: Can I verbally consentPostdoc G: you know.Grad H: Well I can't, I'm wired in.Professor B: We {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we don't, uh {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah. You're on recor you're being recordedPostdoc G: oGrad F: Yeah.PhD A: and {disfmarker}Professor B: we don't {disfmarker} we don't perform electro - shock during these meetings,Grad F: I don't care. You can do whatever you want with it.Professor B: and {disfmarker}PhD E: Usually.Grad F: That's fine.Professor B: Yeah. OK. Uh, transcriptions.Postdoc G: Transcriptions, OK. Um, I thought about {disfmarker} there are maybe three aspects of this. So first of all, um, I've got eight transcribers. Uh, seven of them are linguists. One of them is a graduate student in psychology. Um, Each {disfmarker} I gave each of them, uh, their own data set. Two of them have already finished the data sets. And {pause} the meetings run, you know, let's say an hour. Sometimes as man much as an hour and a half.PhD E: How big is the data setPostdoc G: Oh, it's {disfmarker} what I mean is one meeting.PhD E: Ah, OK.Postdoc G: Each {disfmarker} each person got their own meeting. I didn't want to have any conflicts of, you know, of {disfmarker} of when to stop transcribing this one or {disfmarker} So I wanted to keep it clear whose data were whose, and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and so {disfmarker}PhD E: Uh - huh.Postdoc G: And, uh, meetings, you know, I think that they're {disfmarker} they go as long as a {disfmarker} almost two hours in some {disfmarker} in some cases. So, you know, that means {disfmarker} you know, if we've {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I see that, eh, you are considering now, eh, a very sophisticated, eh, ehm, eh, @ @ {comment} set of, eh, graphic s eh, eh, ehm, si symbols to {disfmarker} to transcribe. No Because, uh, before, you {disfmarker} you are talking about the {disfmarker} the possibility to include in the Transcriber program eh, um, a set of symbols, of graphic symbol to {disfmarker} t to mark the different situations during the transcriptionPostdoc G: Oh, I w Uh - huh.PhD D: during the transcription. NoPostdoc G: Well, you're saying {disfmarker} So, uh, symbols for differences between laugh, and sigh, and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and slam the door and stuffPhD D: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The s the symbols, you {disfmarker} you talk of before.Postdoc G: Or some other kind of thingPhD D: No To {disfmarker} to mark {disfmarker}Postdoc G: Well, I wouldn't say {vocalsound} symbols so much. The {disfmarker} the main change that I {disfmarker} that I see in the interface is {disfmarker} is just that we'll be able to more finely c uh, time things.PhD D: Yeah. Yeah.Postdoc G: But I {disfmarker} I also st there was another aspect of your work that I was thinking about when I was talking to youPhD A: Hmm.Postdoc G: which is that it sounded to me, Liz, as though you {disfmarker} and, uh, maybe I didn't q understand this, but it sounded to me as though part of the analysis that you're doing involves taking segments which are of a particular type and putting them together.PhD D: Yeah.Postdoc G: And th so if you have like a p a s you know, speech from one speaker, {pause} then you cut out the part that's not that speaker,PhD A: Mm - hmm.Postdoc G: and you combine segments from {pause} that same speaker to do an initial forced alignment,PhD A: So {disfmarker}Postdoc G: after they {disfmarker}Grad H: Yeah, but {disfmarker}Professor B: I {disfmarker} I think that they are,Grad H: We'll have to talk to Brian.Professor B: um, yeah, I'm sure they will and so we {disfmarker} we have to have a dialogue with them about it.PhD A: Yeah.Professor B: I mean, it sounds like Liz has some concernsPhD A: Maybe they have some {disfmarker} you know, maybe actually there is some, even if they're not fine grained, maybe the transcribers {disfmarker}Professor B: and {disfmarker}PhD A: uh, I don't know, maybe it's saved out in pieces or {disfmarker} or something. That would help.Postdoc G: Yeah.PhD A: But, uh, it's just an unknown right now.Postdoc G: Yeah. I {disfmarker} I need to {disfmarker} to write to him.PhD A: So.Postdoc G: I just {disfmarker} you know, it's like I got over - taxed with the timing.PhD A: Right. But the {disfmarker} it is true that the segments {disfmarker} I haven't tried the segments that Thilo gave you but the segments that in your first meeting are great.Postdoc G: Mm - hmm.PhD A: I mean, that's {disfmarker} that's a good length.Postdoc G: A good size. Good.PhD A: Right, cuz {disfmarker}Postdoc G: Well, I {disfmarker} I was thinking it would be fun to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} uh, uh, if {disfmarker} if you {disfmarker} wouldn't mind, {comment} {vocalsound} to give us a pre - segmentation.PhD A: y yeah.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc G: Uh, maybe you have one already of that first m of the meeting that uh, the first transcribed meeting, the one that I transcribed.PhD C: Um, I'm sure I have somePostdoc G: Do you have a {disfmarker} could you generate a pre - segmentationGrad H: February sixteenth I think.PhD C: but {disfmarker} but that's the one where we're, um, uh, choices that you could use for each {disfmarker} each of them. And it just ends up looking like a graphical representation.Grad H: Is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} Is ATLAS the {disfmarker} his annotated transcription graph stuff I don't remember the acronym. The {disfmarker} the one {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} what I think you're referring to, they {disfmarker} they have this concept of an an annotated transcription graph representation.PhD A: Oh. Oh.Postdoc G: Yeah.Grad H: And that's basically what I based the format that I did {disfmarker} I based it on their work almost directly, in combination with the TEI stuff. And so it's very, very similar. And so it's {disfmarker} it's a data representation and a set of tools for manipulating transcription graphs of various types.PhD E: Is this the project that's sort of, uh, between, uh, NIST and {disfmarker} and, uh, a couple of other placesPostdoc G: Mm - hmm.PhD E: The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}Postdoc G: Including LDC.PhD E: Yeah,Postdoc G: I think so.Grad H: Yep.PhD E: y right, OK.Postdoc G: Mm - hmm. Then there's their web site that has lots of papers. And I looked through them and they mainly had to do with this, um, this, uh, tree structure, uh, annotated tree diagram thing.PhD A: Mmm.Postdoc G: So, um, um {disfmarker} and, you know, in terms of like the conventions that I'm a that I've adopted, it {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there's no conflict at all.Grad H: Right.Postdoc G: And he was, you know, very interested. And," oh, and how'd you handle this" And I said," well, you know, this way" and {disfmarker} And {disfmarker} and we had a really nice conversation. Um, OK, now I also wanted to say in a different {disfmarker} a different direction is, Brian Kingsbury. So, um, I corresponded briefly with him. I,

What was suggested for the transcribers

The group discussed the potential for assigning additional tasks to ICSI's transcriber pool, including tagging more fine-grained acoustic information, and discourse and disfluency tagging.

got two already finished and they're working on {disfmarker} Uh, right now all eight of them have differe uh, uh, additional data sets. That means potentially as many as ten might be finished by the end of the month.PhD E: Wow.Postdoc G: Hope so. But the pre - segmentation really helps a huge amount.PhD C: OK.Postdoc G: And, uh, also Dan Ellis's innovation of the, uh {disfmarker} the multi - channel to here really helped a r a lot in terms of clearing {disfmarker} clearing up h hearings that involve overlaps. But, um, just out of curiosity I asked one of them how long {pause} it was taking her, one of these two who has already finished her data set. She said it takes about, uh, sixty minutes transcription for every five minutes of real time. So it's about twelve to one, which is what we were thinking.Grad H: or Yep.Postdoc G: It's well in the range.Grad H: It's pretty good.Postdoc G: OK. Uh, these still, when they're finished, um, that means that they're finished with their pass through. They still need to be edited and all but {disfmarker} But it's word level, speaker change, the things that were mentioned. OK, now I wanted to mention the, um, teleconference I had with, uh, Jonathan Fiscus. We spoke for an hour and a half and, um, had an awful lot of things in common.Grad H: Hmm.Postdoc G: He, um, um, he in indicated to me that they've {disfmarker} that he's been, uh, looking, uh, uh, spending a lot of time with {disfmarker} I'm not quite sure the connection, but spending a lot of time with the ATLAS system. And I guess that {disfmarker} I mean, I {disfmarker} I need to read up on that. And there's a web site that has who's not talking they're picking up signals from other people {comment} and that's {vocalsound} causing problemsPhD A: R right, although if they're not talking, using the {disfmarker} the inhouse transcriptions, were sort of O K because the t no one transcribed any words there and we throw it out.PhD E: Mm - hmm.PhD A: But if they're talking at all and they're not talking the whole time, so you get some speech and then a" mm - hmm" , and some more speech, so that whole thing is one chunk. And the person in the middle who said only a little bit is picking up the speech around it, that's where it's a big problem.Postdoc G: You know, this does like seem like it would relate to some of what Jose's been working on as well, the encoding of the {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah.Postdoc G: And {disfmarker} and he also, he was {disfmarker}PhD A: The energy,PhD D: Yeah,PhD A: right. Exactly.PhD D: energy.Postdoc G: I was t I was trying to remember, you have this interface where you {disfmarker} i you ha you showed us one time on your laptop that you {disfmarker} you had different visual displays as speech and nonspeech events.PhD D: Yeah, c Yeah. May {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I only display the different colors for the different situation. But, eh, for me and for my problems, is uh {disfmarker} is enough. Because, eh, it's possible, eh, eh, in a simp sample view, uh, to, nnn, to compare with c with the segment, the {disfmarker} the kind of assessment what happened with the {disfmarker} the different parameters. And only with a different bands of color for the, uh, few situation, eh, I consider for acoustic event is enough to @ @.Postdoc G: Mm - hmm.PhD D: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I see that, eh, you are considering now, eh, a very sophisticated, eh, ehm, eh, @ @ {comment} set of, eh, graphic s eh, eh, ehm, si symbols to {disfmarker} to transcribe. No Because, uh, before, you {disfmarker} you are talking about the {disfmarker} the possibility to include in the Transcriber program eh, um, a set of symbols, of graphic symbol to {disfmarker} t to mark the different situations during the transcriptionPostdoc G: Oh, I w Uh - huh.PhD D: during the transcription. NoPostdoc G: Well, you're saying {disfmarker} So, uh, symbols for differences between laugh, and sigh, and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and slam the door and stuffPhD D: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The s the symbols, you {disfmarker} you talk of before.Postdoc G: Or some other kind of thingPhD D: No To {disfmarker} to mark {disfmarker}Postdoc G: Well, I wouldn't say {vocalsound} symbols so much. The {disfmarker} the main change that I {disfmarker} that I see in the interface is {disfmarker} is just that we'll be able to more finely c uh, time things.PhD D: Yeah. Yeah.Postdoc G: But I {disfmarker} I also st there was another aspect of your work that I was thinking about when I was talking to youPhD A: Hmm.Postdoc G: which is that it sounded to me, Liz, as though you {disfmarker} and, uh, maybe I didn't q understand this, but it sounded to me as though part of the analysis that you're doing involves taking segments which are of a particular type and putting them together.PhD D: Yeah.Postdoc G: And th so if you have like a p a s you know, speech from one speaker, {pause} then you cut out the part that's not that speaker,PhD A: Mm - hmm.Postdoc G: and you combine segments from {pause} that same speaker to do an initial forced alignment,PhD A: So {disfmarker}Postdoc G: after they {disfmarker}Grad H: Yeah, but {disfmarker}Professor B: I {disfmarker} I think that they are,Grad H: We'll have to talk to Brian.Professor B: um, yeah, I'm sure they will and so we {disfmarker} we have to have a dialogue with them about it.PhD A: Yeah.Professor B: I mean, it sounds like Liz has some concernsPhD A: Maybe they have some {disfmarker} you know, maybe actually there is some, even if they're not fine grained, maybe the transcribers {disfmarker}Professor B: and {disfmarker}PhD A: uh, I don't know, maybe it's saved out in pieces or {disfmarker} or something. That would help.Postdoc G: Yeah.PhD A: But, uh, it's just an unknown right now.Postdoc G: Yeah. I {disfmarker} I need to {disfmarker} to write to him.PhD A: So.Postdoc G: I just {disfmarker} you know, it's like I got over - taxed with the timing.PhD A: Right. But the {disfmarker} it is true that the segments {disfmarker} I haven't tried the segments that Thilo gave you but the segments that in your first meeting are great.Postdoc G: Mm - hmm.PhD A: I mean, that's {disfmarker} that's a good length.Postdoc G: A good size. Good.PhD A: Right, cuz {disfmarker}Postdoc G: Well, I {disfmarker} I was thinking it would be fun to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} uh, uh, if {disfmarker} if you {disfmarker} wouldn't mind, {comment} {vocalsound} to give us a pre - segmentation.PhD A: y yeah.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc G: Uh, maybe you have one already of that first m of the meeting that uh, the first transcribed meeting, the one that I transcribed.PhD C: Um, I'm sure I have somePostdoc G: Do you have a {disfmarker} could you generate a pre - segmentationGrad H: February sixteenth I think.PhD C: but {disfmarker} but that's the one where we're, um, {disfmarker} {comment} and run them through the recognizer. Is that {pause} rightPhD A: Well we try to find as close of start and end time of {disfmarker} as we can to the speech from an individual speaker,Postdoc G: Mm - hmm.PhD A: because then we {disfmarker} we're more guaranteed that the recognizer will {disfmarker} for the forced alignment which is just to give us the time boundaries, because from those time boundaries then the plan is to compute prosodic features.Postdoc G: Mm - hmm.PhD A: And the sort of more space you have that isn't the thing you're trying to align the more errors we have. Um, so, you know, that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} it would help to have either pre - processing of a signal that creates very good signal - to - noise ratio,Postdoc G: Mm - hmm. Cuz i OK.PhD A: which I don't know how possible this is for the lapel, um, or to have very {disfmarker} to have closer, {vocalsound} um, time {disfmarker} you know, synch times, basically, around the speech that gets transcribed in it, or both. And it's just sort of a open world right now of exploring that. So I just wanted to {pause} see, you know, on the transcribing end from here things look good. Uh, the IBM one is more {disfmarker} it's an open question right now. And then the issue of like global processing of some signal and then, you know, before we chop it up is {disfmarker} is yet another way we can improve things in that.PhD E: What about increasing the flexibility of the alignmentPostdoc G: OK.PhD E: Do you remember that thing that Michael Finka didPhD A: Mm - hmm.PhD E: that experiment he did a while backPhD A: Right. You can, um {disfmarker} The problem

What's the current status of transcription

The transcriber pool has been performing within the expected range of work completed per the amount of time spent transcribing.

comingProfessor B: Uh, uh, John FiscusPostdoc G: Mm - hmm.Professor B: and, uh, I think George Doddington will be around as well. Uh, OK, so we can talk about that. Uh, I guess just hear about how things are going with, uh, uh, the transcriptions. That's right.Postdoc G: Sure. Mm - hmm.Professor B: That would sorta be an obvious thing to discuss. Um, An - anything else, uh, strike anybodyPhD A: Uh, we started {pause} running recognition on {pause} one conversation but it's the r {pause} isn't working yet. So, But if anyone has {disfmarker}Professor B: OK.PhD E: WhaPhD A: uh, the main thing would be if anyone has, um, knowledge about ways to, uh, post - process the wave forms that would give us better recognition, that would be helpful to know about.Professor B: Um,Grad H: Dome yeah, it sounds like a topic of conversation.Professor B: Yeah, so, uh {disfmarker}PhD E: What about, uh, is there anything new with the speech, nonspeech stuffPhD C: Yeah, we're working more on it but, {vocalsound} it's not finished.Professor B: OK. Alright, that seems like a {disfmarker} a good collection of things. And we'll undoubtedly think of {pause} other things.Postdoc G: I had thought under my topic that I would mention the, uh, four items that I {disfmarker} I, uh, put out for being on the agenda f on that meeting, which includes like the pre - segmentation and the {disfmarker} and the developments in multitrans.Professor B: Oh, under the NIST meeting.Postdoc G: Yeah, under the NIST thing.Professor B: OK.Postdoc G: Yeah.Professor B: Alright, why don't we start off with this, u u I guess the order we brought them up seems fine.Postdoc G: Yeah.Professor B: Um, so, better quality close talking mikes. So the one issue was that the {disfmarker} the, uh, trai training on, so that's a little bit {disfmarker}Grad H: Oh.Postdoc G: Oh, I see.PhD C: It's a little bit at odd to {disfmarker}Postdoc G: Oh, darn. Of course, of course, of course. Yeah, OK.PhD C: Yeah.PhD A: And actually as you get transcripts just, um, for new meetings, {comment} um, we can try {disfmarker}Postdoc G: Uh - huh.PhD A: I mean, the {disfmarker} the more data we have to try the {disfmarker} the alignments on, um, the better. So it'd be good for {disfmarker} just to know as transcriptions are coming through the pipeline from the transcribers, just to sort of {disfmarker} we're playing around with sort of uh, parameters f on the recognizer,Postdoc G: Mm - hmm.PhD A: cuz that would be helpful. Especially as you get, en more voices.Postdoc G: Excellent, good.PhD A: The first meeting had I think just four people,PhD C: Four speakers, yeah.Postdoc G: Mm - hmm.PhD A: yeah.Postdoc G: Yeah, Liz and I spoke d w at some length on Tuesday and {disfmarker} and I {disfmarker} and I was planning to do just a {disfmarker} a preliminary look over of the two that are finished and then give them to you.PhD A: Oh, great, great.Postdoc G: Yeah.PhD A: So.Professor B: That's great. I guess the other thing, I {disfmarker} I can't remember if we discussed this in the meeting but, uh, I know you and I talked about this a little bit, there was an issue of, uh, suppose we get in the, uh, I guess it's enviable position although maybe it's just saying where the weak link is in the chain, uh, where we {disfmarker} we, uh {disfmarker} uh, we have all the data transcribed and we have these transcribers and we were {disfmarker} we're {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} we're still a bit something I guess I didn't put in the list but, uh, on that, uh, same day later on in {disfmarker} or maybe it's {disfmarker} No, actually {pause} it's this week, uh, Dave Gelbart and I will be, uh, visiting with John Canny who i you know, is a CS professor,Postdoc G: Oh.Professor B: who's interested in ar in array microphones.Grad H: HCC. Oh, he's doing array mikes.Professor B: Yeah. And so we wanna see what commonality there is here. You know, maybe they'd wanna stick an array mike here when we're doing thingsPhD E: That would be cool.Grad H: Yeah, that would be neat.Professor B: or {disfmarker} or maybe it's {disfmarker} it's not a specific array microphone they wantPhD D: Yeah.PhD E: That would be really neat.Professor B: but they might wanna just, {disfmarker} uh, you know, you could imagine them taking the four signals from these {disfmarker} these table mikes and trying to do something with them {disfmarker} Um, I also had a discussion {disfmarker} So, w uh, we'll be over {disfmarker} over there talking with him, um, after class on Friday. Um, we'll let you know what {disfmarker} what goes with that. Also had a completely unrelated thing. I had a, uh, discussion today with, uh, Birger Kollmeier who's a, uh, a German, uh, scientist who's got a fair sized group {vocalsound} doing a range of things. It's sort of auditory related, largely for hearing aids and so on. But {disfmarker} but, uh, he does stuff with auditory models and he's very interested in directionality, and location, and {disfmarker} and, uh, head models and {pause} microphone things. And so, uh, he's {disfmarker} he and possibly a student, there w there's, uh, a student of his who gave a talk here last year, uh, may come here, uh, in the fall for, uh, sort of a five month, uh, sabbatical. So he might be around. Get him to give some talks and so on. But anyway, he might be interested in {pause} this stuff.PhD D: Mm - hmm.PhD E: That {disfmarker} that reminds me, I had a {disfmarker} a thought of an interesting project that somebody could try to do with {pause} the data from here, either using, you know, the {disfmarker} the mikes on the table or using signal energies from the head worn mikes,PhD D: Mm - hmm.PhD E: and that is to try to construct a map of where people were sitting,Professor B: Right.PhD D: Uh - huh.PhD E: uh, based on {disfmarker}Grad H: Well Dan {disfmarker} Dan had worked on that. Dan Ellis,PhD D: Uh - huh.PhD E: Oh, did he Oh, that's interesting.Grad H: yeah. So that {disfmarker} that's the cross - correlation stuff, was {disfmarker} was doing b beam - forming.PhD D: Yeah.PhD E: And so you could plot out who was sitting next to whoProfessor B: A little bit,PhD E: and {disfmarker}Professor B: I mean, he didn't do a very extreme thing but just {disfmarker} it was just sort ofPhD D: Yeah, yeah.Grad H: No, he did start on it.Professor B: e e given that, the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the block of wood with the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the two mikes {comment} on either side,Grad H: Mm - hmm.Professor B: if I'm speaking, or if you're speaking, or someone over there is speaking, it {disfmarker} if you look at cross - correlation functions, you end up with a {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah.Professor B: if {disfmarker} if someone who was on the axis between the two is talking, then you {disfmarker} you get a big peak there. And if {disfmarker} if someone's talking on Thank you.Grad F: Yeah.Postdoc G: OK.Professor B: Yeah.Postdoc G: You don't {disfmarker} you don't have to leave for it.Professor B: Yeah, we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker}Postdoc G: But I just {disfmarker}Grad F: Can I verbally consentPostdoc G: you know.Grad H: Well I can't, I'm wired in.Professor B: We {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we don't, uh {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah. You're on recor you're being recordedPostdoc G: oGrad F: Yeah.PhD A: and {disfmarker}Professor B: we don't {disfmarker} we don't perform electro - shock during these meetings,Grad F: I don't care. You can do whatever you want with it.Professor B: and {disfmarker}PhD E: Usually.Grad F: That's fine.Professor B: Yeah. OK. Uh, transcriptions.Postdoc G: Transcriptions, OK. Um, I thought about {disfmarker} there are maybe three aspects of this. So first of all, um, I've got eight transcribers. Uh, seven of them are linguists. One of them is a graduate student in psychology. Um, Each {disfmarker} I gave each of them, uh, their own data set. Two of them have already finished the data sets. And {pause} the meetings run, you know, let's say an hour. Sometimes as man much as an hour and a half.PhD E: How big is the data setPostdoc G: Oh, it's {disfmarker} what I mean is one meeting.PhD E: Ah, OK.Postdoc G: Each {disfmarker} each person got their own meeting. I didn't want to have any conflicts of, you know, of {disfmarker} of when to stop transcribing this one or {disfmarker} So I wanted to keep it clear whose data were whose, and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and so {disfmarker}PhD E: Uh - huh.Postdoc G: And, uh, meetings, you know, I think that they're {disfmarker} they go as long as a {disfmarker} almost two hours in some {disfmarker} in some cases. So, you know, that means {disfmarker} you know, if we've

Summarize the meeting

The group discussed recording equipment and setup issues, recent developments in the transcription effort, other potential types of tagging to be assigned to transcribers, and the post-processing of waveforms. The discussion was largely focused on efforts to facilitate transcriptions, including the improvement of strategies for transcribing overlapping speech, and achieving greater uniformity in the type of equipment used during recordings and the manner in which recording devices are worn by speakers.

it's audible on the {disfmarker} but I {disfmarker} I sort of thought that was a disadvantage. I do take notes, I mean, I could be taking notes on these things and I guess the plus with the CrossPads would be the time markings but {disfmarker} I don't know.PhD D: Uh, what is a CrossPadProfessor B: So it's {disfmarker} it's um {disfmarker} it's a regular pad, just a regular pad of paper but there's this pen which indicates position.Grad C: Thank you.Professor B: And so you have time and position stuff storedPhD D: OK.Professor B: so that you can {disfmarker} you have a record of whatever it is you've written.PhD D: OK.Grad H: And then you can download it and they have OCR and searching and all sorts of things.PhD D: OK. OK.Grad H: So i if you take notes it's a great little device.Postdoc A: Could {disfmarker} Mm - hmm.Grad H: But I don't take notes,Professor B: And one of the reasons that it was brought up originally was because uh we were interested in {disfmarker} in higher - level things,Grad H: so.Professor B: not just the, you know, microphone stuff but also summarization and so forth and the question is if you were going to go to some gold standard of what wa what was it that happened in the meeting you know, where would it come from And um I think that was one of the things,PhD D: Yeah.PhD G: Yeah.Grad H: Yep.Professor B: right And so the {disfmarker} it seemed like a neat idea. We'll have a {disfmarker} you know, have a scribe, have somebody uh take good notes and then that's part of the record of the meeting. And then we did it once or twice and we sort of {disfmarker}Grad H: Yep, and then just skip those things.PhD G: OK.Grad H: So. Um if you use the Edit - key, or Key - edit {disfmarker}PhD D: Edit - key.Grad H: I think it's Edit - key, {comment} command {disfmarker} Did I show you guys thatPhD D: Yep.PhD F: You mentioned it,Grad H: I did show it to you,PhD F: yeah. Yeah.Grad H: but I think you both said" no, you'll just use text file" .PhD F: Text.Grad H: Um it has it in there, a place to fill it in.PhD G: OK.PhD F: OK.Grad H: Yeah, and so if you don't fill it in, you're not gonna get it in the meetings.PhD G: So if {disfmarker} Right. Well I {disfmarker} I just realized I hadn't been doing itGrad H: So.PhD G: and probably {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}Grad H: Yep.Grad C: uGrad H: Yeah and then the other thing also that Thilo noticed is, on the microphone, on channel zero it says hand - held mike or Crown mike,PhD G: Yeah. Right.Grad H: you actually have to say which one.PhD G: I know {disfmarker} Yeah, I usually delete the {disfmarker}Grad H: So.PhD F: Oh! OK. I didn't do that either.PhD G: I don't,PhD D: Yeah.PhD G: maybe I forgot to dPhD F: Takes me no time at all to edit these.PhD G: But it's almost {disfmarker} Yeah.Grad H: Yeah that's cuz you knPhD F: I'm not doing anything.Grad H: I {disfmarker} I know why.PhD G: And I was {disfmarker} I was looking at Chuck's, like," oh what did Chuck do, OK I'll do that" . So.Grad H: And then uh also in a couple of places instead of filling the participants under" participants" they were filled in under" description" .Professor B: Ah, OK.PhD G: Uh {disfmarker}Grad H: And so that's also a problem. So anyway.PhD G: We problem with the Snack version and the Transcriber version but it's solved.Postdoc A: Does {disfmarker} and that {disfmarker} does that mean, I {disfmarker}PhD D: So.Postdoc A: maybe I should know this but I don't. Does this mean that the {disfmarker} that this could be por uh ported to a Think - Pad note or some other type of uh {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah, basically uh I did install it on my laptop and yeahPostdoc A: Wonderful.PhD D: it worked.Postdoc A: Wonderful.Professor B: Hmm! Good. CrossPads CrossPadsGrad H: Uh got an email from uh James Landay who basically said" if you're not using them, could you return them" So he said he doesn't need them, he just periodically w at the end of each term sends out email to everyone who was recorded as having them and asks them if they're still using them.Professor B: So we've never used them.Postdoc A: We used them once.Professor B: OnceGrad H: We {disfmarker} we used them a couple times,Postdoc A: Mm - hmm. Couple times.PhD F: Them There's more than oneGrad H: but {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Yeah.Professor B: iGrad H: Yeah, we have two. Um.Professor B: But {disfmarker}Grad H: My opinion on it is, first, I never take notes anyway so I'm not gonna use it, um and second, it's another level of infrastructure that we have to deal with.Postdoc A: And I have {disfmarker} uh so my {disfmarker} my feeling on it is that I think in principle it's a really nice idea, and you have the time tags which makes it better tha than just taking ra raw notes. On the other hand, I {disfmarker} the down side for me was that I think the pen is really noisy. So you have ka kaplunk, kaplunk, kaplunk. And I {disfmarker} and I don't know if of runs uh um {disfmarker} recognition runs, trying to figure things out about the features but it's {disfmarker} it's all sort of in process, so there's not much to say right now. Uh why don't we start with our {disfmarker} our esteemed guest.PhD E: OK. Alright.Grad H: So just the transcript number and then the {disfmarker} then the {disfmarker}PhD E: This is {disfmarker} Yes, this is number two for me today.Professor B: See all you have to do is go away to move way up in the {disfmarker}PhD E: Oh.PhD G: We could do simultaneous. Initiate him.Professor B: We {disfmarker} we could.Grad H: Should we do simultaneousPhD G: Well, I'm just thinking, are you gonna try to save the data before this next group comes inProfessor B: Yeah.Grad H: Yeah, absolutely.PhD G: Yeah, so we might wanna do it simultaneous.Grad H: I mean you hav sorta have to.Professor B: Well OK, so let's do one of those simultaneous ones.PhD G: Right, so {disfmarker} so we might n we might need to do that actually.Professor B: That sounds good.Grad H: OK.PhD E: OK.Professor B: Everybody readyPostdoc A: Yeah.Professor B: A one.PhD G: You have to plug your ears, by the way uh Eric,Grad H: Well I have to,PhD D: You don't have to.PhD E: OK, alright.PhD G: or {disfmarker} or you start laughing.Grad H: I don't know about other people.Professor B: OK, a one and a two and a three. OK, babble, take five. are being used, so that it's synchronized with the time on that and then you have to download to an application, and then you have to figure out what the data formats are and convert it over if you wanna do anything with this information.Postdoc A: w Mm - hmm.PhD E: Why {disfmarker}Grad H: And so there's a lot of infrastructure whichPostdoc A: There is an alternative.Grad H: unless someone {disfmarker}Postdoc A: There is an alternative, I mean, it's still, there's uh {disfmarker} you know, your point stands about there be {disfmarker} needing to be an infrastructure, but it doesn't have to be synchronized with the little clock's timer on it. You c I mean, I {disfmarker} when I {disfmarker} when I did it I synchronized it by voice, by whispering" one, two, three, four" onto the microphoneGrad H: Hmm.Postdoc A: and uh, you know.Grad H: Well, but then there's the infrastructure at the other endPhD E: Right.Grad H: which someone has to listen to that and find that point,Postdoc A: Yeah, it's transcribed. It's in the transcript.Grad H: and then mark it.Postdoc A: Yeah.Grad H: So.Postdoc A: Well it's in the transcript.PhD G: Well, could we keep one of these things for another year Would h I mean is there a big cauGrad H: We can keep all {disfmarker} both of them for the whole whole year.PhD G: just {disfmarker} just in case we {disfmarker}Grad H: I mean, it's just {disfmarker}PhD G: even maybe some of the transcribers who might be wanting to annotate uh f just there's a bunch of things that might be neat to do but I {disfmarker} it might not be the case that we can actually synchronize them and then do all the infrastructure but we could at least try it out.Professor B: Well

Summarize the discussion on XML tools and meeting data quality

The team had started moving to XML as their general format to standardize their data. Though, there is still concern about the limitations of XML. The participants noted that sometimes the mic of one subject catches sound from another. They also discussed implementing tools to help participants know when the quality of their audio is bad.