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rungalileo

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20_Newsgroups_Fixed

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------------------------------------- + ............The OTIS Project '93 + + "The Operative Term Is STIMULATE" + ------------------------------------- ---this file last updated..4-21-93--- WHAT IS OTIS? OTIS is here for the purpose of distributing original artwork and photographs over the network for public perusal, scrutiny, and distribution. Digital immortality. The basic idea behind "digital immortality" is that computer networks are here to stay and that anything interesting you deposit on them will be around near-forever. The GIFs and JPGs of today will be the artifacts of a digital future. Perhaps they'll be put in different formats, perhaps only surviving on backup tapes....but they'll be there...and someone will dig them up. If that doesn't interest you... OTIS also offers a forum for critique and exhibition of your works....a virtual art gallery that never closes and exists in an information dimension where your submissions will hang as wallpaper on thousands of glowing monitors. Suddenly, life is breathed into your work...and by merit of it's stimulus, it will travel the globe on pulses of light and electrons. Spectators are welcome also, feel free to browse the gallery and let the artists know what you think of their efforts. Keep your own copies of the images to look at when you've got the gumption... that's what they're here for. --------------------------------------------------------------- WHERE? OTIS currently (as of 4/21/93) has two FTP sites. 141.214.4.135 (projects/otis), the UWI site sunsite.unc.edu (/pub/multimedia/pictures/OTIS), the SUNsite (you can also GOPHER to this site for OTIS as well) Merely "anonymous FTP" to either site on Internet and change to the appropriate directory. Don't forget to get busy and use the "bin" command to make sure you're in binary. OTIS has also been spreading to some dial-up BBS systems around North America....the following systems have a substancial supply of OTIStuff... Underground Cafe (Omaha) (402.339.0179) 2 lines CyberDen (SanFran?) (415.472.5527) Usenet Waffle-iron -------------------------------------------------------------- HOW DO YOU CONTRIBUTE? What happens is...you draw a pretty picture or take a lovely photo, get it scanned into an image file, then either FTP-put it in the CONTRIB/Incoming directory or use UUENCODE to send it to me (email addresses at eof) in email. After the image is received, it will be put into the correct directory. Computer originated works are also welcome. OTIS' directories house two types of image files, GIF and JPG. GIF and JPG files require, oddly enough, a GIF or JPG viewer to see. These viewers are available for all types of computers at most large FTP sites around Internet. JPG viewers are a bit tougher to find. If you can't find one, but do have a GIF viewer, you can obtain a JPG-to-GIF conversion program which will change JPG files to a standard GIF format. OTIS also accepts animation files. When you submit image files, please send me email at the same time stating information about what you uploaded and whether it is to be used (in publications or other projects) or if it is merely for people to view. Also, include some biographical information on yourself, we'll be having info-files on each contributing artist and their works. You can also just upload a text-file of info about yourself (instead of emailing). If you have pictures, but no scanner, there is hope. Merely send copies to: The OTIS Project c/o Ed Stastny PO BX 241113 Omaha, NE 68124-1113 I will either scan them myself or get them to someone who will scan them. Include an ample SASE if you want your stuff back. Also include information on each image, preferably a 1-3 line description of the image that we can include in the infofile in the directory where it's finally put. If you have preferences as to what the images are to be named, include those as well. Conversely, if you have a scanner and would like to help out, please contact me and we'll arrange things. If you want to submit your works by disk, peachy. Merely send a 3.5" disk to the above address (Omaha) and a SASE if you want your disk back. This is good for people who don't have direct access to encoders or FTP, but do have access to a scanner. We accept disks in either Mac or IBM compatible format. If possible, please submit image files as GIF or JPG. If you can't...we can convert from most formats...we'd just rather not have to. At senders request, we can also fill disks with as much OTIS as they can stand. Even if you don't have stuff to contribute, you can send a blank disk and an SASE (or $2.50 for disk, postage and packing) to get a slab-o-OTIS. As of 04/21/93, we're at about 18 megabytes of files, and growing. Email me for current archive size and directory. -------------------------------------------------------------------- DISTRIBUTION? The images distributed by the OTIS project may be distributed freely on the condition that the original filename is kept and that it is not altered in any way (save to convert from one image format to another). In fact, we encourage files to be distributed to local bulletin boards and such. If you could, please transport the appropriate text files along with the images. It would also be nice if you'd send me a note when you did post images from OTIS to your local bbs. I just want to keep track of them so participants can have some idea how widespread their stuff is. It's the purpose of OTIS to get these images spread out as much as possible. If you have the time, please upload a few to your favorite BBS system....or even just post this "info-file" there. It would be keen of you. -------------------------------------------------------------------- USE? If you want to use any of the works you find on the OTIS directory, you'll have to check to see if permission has been granted and the stipulations of the permission (such as free copy of publication, or full address credit). You will either find this in the ".rm" file for the image or series of images...or in the "Artists" directory under the Artists name. If permission isn't explicitly given, then you'll have to contact the artist to ask for it. If no info is available, email me (ed@cwis.unomaha.edu), and I'll get in contact with the artist for you, or give you their contact information. When you DO use permitted work, it's always courteous to let the artist know about it, perhaps even send them a free copy or some such compensation for their files. --------------------------------------------------------------------- NAMING IMAGES? Please keep the names of your files in "dos" format. That means, keep the filename (before .jpg or .gif) to eight characters or less. The way I usually do it is to use the initials of the artist, plus a three or four digit "code" for the series of images, plus the series number. Thus, Leonardo DeVinci's fifth mechanical drawing would be something like: ldmek5.gif OR ldmek5.jpg OR ldmech5.gif ETC Keeping the names under 8 characters assures that the filename will remain intact on all systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CREATING IMAGE FILES? When creating image files, be sure to at least include your name somewhere on or below the picture. This gives people a reference in case they'd like to contact you. You may also want to include a title, address or other information you'd like people to know. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HMMM?! That's about it for now. More "guidelines" will be added as needed. Your input is expected. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: The OTIS Project has no connection to the Church of OTIS (a sumerian deity) or it's followers, be they pope, priest, or ezine administrator. We do take sacrifices and donations however. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: The OTIS Project is here for the distribution of original image files. The files will go to the public at large. It's possible, as with any form of mass-media, that someone could unscrupulously use your images for financial gain. Unless you've given permission for that, it's illegal. OTIS takes no responsibility for this. In simple terms, all rights revert to the author/artist. To leave an image on OTIS is to give permission for it to be viewed, copied and distributed electronically. If you don't want your images distributed all-over, don't upload them. To leave an image on OTIS is NOT giving permission to have it used in any publication or broadcast that incurs profit (this includes, but is not limited to, magazines, newsletters, clip-art software, screen-printed clothing, etc). You must give specific permission for this sort of usage. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Remember, the operative term is "stimulate". If you know of people that'd be interested in this sort of thing...get them involved...kick'm in the booty....offer them free food...whatever... ....e (ed@cwis.unomaha.edu) (ed@sunsite.unc.edu)

comp.graphics

am amazed at the number of Harley riders who ARE waving even to a lowly baby ninja. Let's keep up the good attitudes. Brock Yates said in this months Car and Driver he is ready for a war (against those who would rather we all rode busses). We bikers should be too. It's a freedom that we all wanna know and it's an obsession to some to keep the world in your rearview mirror while you try to run down the sun

rec.motorcycles

[Prof. Denning's description of SkipJack mostly omitted] CHIP STRUCTURE The Clipper Chip contains a classified 64-bit block encryption algorithm called "Skipjack." The algorithm uses 80 bit keys (compared with 56 for the DES) and has 32 rounds of scrambling (compared with 16 for the DES). It supports all 4 DES modes of operation. Throughput is 16 Mbits a second. [...] F, an 80-bit family key that is common to all chips N, a 30-bit serial number U, an 80-bit secret key that unlocks all messages encrypted with the chip The key K and message stream M (i.e., digitized voice) are then fed into the Clipper Chip to produce two values: E[M; K], the encrypted message stream, and E[E[K; U] + N; F], a law enforcement block. Three questions: 1) It looks like each 64 bits of input gives you 4*64 bits of output: E[M;K] = 64 bits E[K;U] = E[ 80 bits ] = 128 bits E[ E[K;U], N ; F ] = E[ 128 + 30 bits ] = 192 bits Do you really need to transmit all 256 bits each time, or do you only transmit the 192 bits of wiretap block at the beginning? All 256 would be really obnoxious for bandwidth-limited applications like cellular phones (or even regular phones over 2) how do the 4 DES modes interact with the two-part output? Do the various feedback modes only apply to the message block, or also to the wiretap block? Or, if the wiretap block is only transmitted at the beginning, does it get incorporated into everything through feedback modes, but not during ECB mode? 3) Does the Clipper Chip check the wiretap block itself? Does the block have to be present at all? Since the receiving chip doesn't know the transmitter's U, it presumably can't check the validity of E[K;U], so it's limited to checking the *form* of the wiretap block, and maybe checking the serial number for reasonableness (unless there's some sort of back-door structure that lets it recognize a valid E[K;U].) In that case, can you replace the wiretap block with a DIFFERENT wiretap block, presumably an old valid one to avoid attracting attention? (The chip won't do it, so you postprocess the output.) Regular people can do one with their own serial number and a dummy key; paranoid people can use someone else's serial number. On the other hand, if I could think of that solution so easily, presumably the NSA could too - have they done something to block it, like use message encryption that's really E[M; K,U,N] ? Thanks!

sci.crypt

has no mitigate literature, First, let me offer you my condolences. I've had kidney stones 4 times and I know the pain she is going through. First, it is best that she see a doctor. However, every time I had kidney stones, I saw my doctor and the only thing they did was to prescribe some pain killers and medication for a urinary tract infection. The pain killers did nothing for me...kidney stones are extremely painful. My stones were judged passable, so we just waited it out. However the last one took 10 days to pass...not fun. Anyway, if she absolutely won't see a doctor, I suggest drinking lots of fluids and perhaps an over the counter sleeping pill. But, I do highly suggest seeing a doctor. Kidney stones are not something to fool around with. She should be x-rayed to make sure there is not a serious problem.

sci.med

ha... all this talk about changing the clock speed of the q700 makes me ask?? if i replaced the 8mhz 68000 in my plus with a 16mhz 68000 with a 16mhz clock occilater of its own( not shared by the rest of the mac... just the new 16mhz68000) would my mac work..... and if it would work.. would you think there where be any problems with sound, vidio,scsi........ it seems like a simple solution to keepa dead slow mechine a live a little longer.. Oh if this would not work any idears on how to make it work??? thanks alex

comp.sys.mac.hardware

# |## |#2. Professors get summers off; industry employees don't. # |## # |## What professor gets the summer off ? The primary purpose of a professor # |## at a university is to publish. Teaching is secondary. The summer # |## is when professors are able to do the research required for their # |## papers. # |# # |#I'm told by my advisor that only at some universities is publishing # |#the primary emphasis; many professors in the Cal State University # |#system don't publish at all. Those that prefer teaching are under # |#no pressure to publish. # |# # # When discussing and issue, it helps that all participants use the same # definitions, although this rarely occurs on Usenet. # # When I use the term "university", I think of an organization that has # a Bachelors, Masters, and PhD program. I believe that Cal State schools # do not. I call them colleges. UC schools are universities. At a univeristy # the number one goal is to publish. Cal State University system offers bachlors and masters degrees. The Ph.D. is not offered, because of opposition from UC. # At the Cal State schools, do the professors you speak of have PhDs? At Nearly all the professors have PhDs. I haven't had a professor who didn't, though my wife has had a couple of professors with just an M.A. A friend had an instructor who didn't have a degree at all, but because he had been Minister of Culture for the Black Panthers, he was teaching anyway. He had a bad habit of usually not showing up to teach the class, and finally quit in disgust at the racism of a university that expected him to show up to teach. # a university you have professors with PhDs and then Teaching Assistants (TAs). # TAs were the slave labor, graduate students who got their tuition paid, and # a few hundred a month for living expenses in exchange for doing all the grunt # work. The professors taught the lectures, with 100 to 500 students per class, # then the TAs taught the labs, with 20 to 30 per class. # # Tim Fogarty (FOGARTY@SIR-C.JPL.NASA.GOV) At Sonoma State University, typical class size is 20 to 30 per class. Teaching is definitely more the goal, and sometimes, it actually happens. The best professors at Sonoma State U. are equivalent to the best professors I had at UCLA and USC.

talk.politics.misc

I'm trying to write some code that lets me draw lines and do rubber-band boxes in Motif/X. I'm running on an 8-bit display for which I've created a colormap and am using almost all of the colors. I want to draw the lines in a drawing area widget -- a widget in which I'm displaying a bitmap using XPutImage(). If doesn't matter if the lines I draw interactively stay around when the window is refreshed. Currently, to draw interactively, I begin with: /* drawIndex is an colortable index I reserve for the Foreground */ /* my_default_bg_color is the color index for the background of my image */ palette_colors[drawIndex].red = palette_colors[my_default_bg_color].red; palette_colors[drawIndex].green = palette_colors[my_default_bg_color].green; palette_colors[drawIndex].blue = palette_colors[my_default_bg_color].blue; XStoreColors( myDisplay, my_cmap, &palette_colors[DrawIndex], 1); XFlush( myDisplay); XSetFunction( myDisplay, gc, GXxor); XSetForeground( myDisplay, gc, drawIndex); Then to draw I do: XDrawLine( myDisplay, XtWindow( drawingArea1), gc, x1, y1, x2, y2); XFlush( myDisplay); And when I'm all done, to return things to normal I do: XSetFunction( myDisplay, gc, GXcopy); What I'd like to happen is for the lines I draw to be the inverse of whatever I'm drawing over. Instead what happens is I get white lines. If the lines are over a white background - nothing shows up. If the lines are over a black area - nothing shows up! It's very strange. But the GXxor function seems right - since if I do a rubber-banding box, it erases and redraws itself correctly (ie. not disturbing the underlying image). Any suggestions what I'm doing wrong?

comp.windows.x

I differ with our moderator on this. I thought the whole idea of God coming down to earth to live as one of us "subject to sin and death" (as one of the consecration prayers in the Book of Common Prayer (1979) puts it) was that Jesus was tempted, but did not succumb. If sin is not part of the basic definition of humanity, then Jesus "fully human" (Nicea) would not be "subject to sin", but then the Resurrection loses some of its meaning, because we encounter our humanity most powerfully when we sin. To distinguish between "human" and "fallen human" makes Jesus less like one of us at the time we need him most. First, the Monophysites inherited none of Nestorius's version -- they were on the opposite end of the spectrum from him. Second, the historical record suggests that the positions attributed to Nestorius were not as extreme as his (successful) opponents (who wrote the conventional history) claimed. Mainly Nestorius opposed the term Theotokos for Mary, arguing (I think correctly) that a human could not be called Mother of God. I mean, in the Athanasian Creed we talk about the Son "uncreate" -- surely even Arians would concede that Jesus existed long before Mary. Anyway, Nestorius's opponents claimed that by saying Mary was not Theotokos, that he claimed that she only gave birth to the human nature of Jesus, which would require two seperate and distinct natures. The argument fails though, because Mary simply gave birth to Jesus, who preexisted her either divinely, if you accept "Nestorianism" as commonly defined, or both natures intertwined, a la Chalcedon. Second, I am not sure that "Nestorianism" is not a better alternative than the orthodox view. After all, I find it hard to believe that pre-Incarnation that Jesus's human nature was in heaven; likewise post-Ascension. I think rather that God came to earth and took our nature upon him. It was a seperate nature, capable of being tempted as in Gethsemane (since I believe the divine nature could never be tempted) but in its moments of weakness the divine nature prevailed. Comments on the above warmly appreciated. Jason Albert [There may be differences in what we mean by "subject to sin". The original complaint was from someone who didn't see how we could call Jesus fully human, because he didn't sin. I completely agree that Jesus was subject to temptation. I simply object to the idea that by not succumbing, he is thereby not fully human. I believe that you do not have to sin in order to be human. I again apologize for confusing Nestorianism and monophysitism. I agree with you, and have said elsewhere, that there's reason to think that not everyone who is associated with heretical positions was in fact heretical. There are scholars who maintain that Nestorius was not Nestorian. I have to confess that the first time I read some of the correspondence between Nestorius and his opponents, I thought he got the better of them. However, most scholars do believe that the work that eventually led to Chalcedon was an advance, and that Nestorius was at the very least "rash and dogmatic" (as the editor of "The Christological Controversy" refers to him) in rejecting all approaches other than his own. As regular Usenet readers know, narrowness can be just as much an impediment as being wrong. Furthermore, he did say some things that I think are problematical. He responds to a rather mild letter from Cyril with a flame worthy of Usenet. In it he says "To attribute also to [the Logos], in the name of [the incarnation] the characteristics of the flesh that has been conjoined with him ... is, my brother, either the work of a mind which truly errs in the fashion of the Greeks or that of a mind diseased with the insane heresy of Arius and Apollinaris and the others. Those who are thus carried away with the idea of this association are bound, because of it, to make the divine Logos have a part in being fed with milk and participate to some degree in growh and stand in need of angelic assistance because of his fearfulness ... These things are taken falsely when they are put off on the deity and they become the occasion of just condemnation for us who perpetrate the falsehood." It's all well and good to maintain a proper distinction between humanity and divinity. But the whole concept of incarnation is based on exactly the idea that the divine Logos does in fact have "to some degree" a part in being born, growing up, and dying. Of course it must be understood that there's a certain indirectness in the Logos' participation in these things. But there must be some sort of identification between the divine and human, or we don't have an incarnation at all. Nestorius seemed to think in black and white terms, and missed the sorts of nuances one needs to deal with this area. You say "I find it hard to believe that pre-Incarnation that Jesus's human nature was in heaven." I don't think that's required by orthodox doctrine. It's the divine Logos that is eternal.

soc.religion.christian

-- Hi netland, I thought that I once read about the existance of a virtual mwm like vtwm. On the usual ftp sites (gatakeeper.dec.com, export.lcs.mit.edu) I can't find any trace of this program. Could anybody give me a hint where to find this program or confirm/deny the existance of this program. Regards,

comp.windows.x

Our group recently bought a Mitsubishi P78U video printer and I could use some help with it. We bought this thing because it (1) has a parallel data input in addition to the usual video signal inputs and (2) claimed to print 256 gray level images. However, the manual that came with it only describes how to format the parallel data to print 1 and 4 bit/pixel images. After some initial problems with the parallel interface I now have this thing running from a parallel port of an Hewlett-Packard workstation and I can print 1 and 4 bit/pixel images just fine. I called the Mitsubishi people and asked about the 256 level claim and they said that was only available when used with the video signal inputs. This was not mentioned in the sales literature. However they did say the P78U can do 6 bit/pixel (64 level) images in parallel mode, but they didn't have any information about how to program it to do so, and they would call Japan, etc. Frankly, I find it hard to believe that if this thing can do 8 bit/pixel images from the video source, it can't store 8 bits/pixel in the memory. It's not like memory is that expensive any more. If anybody has any information on getting 6 bit/pixel (or even 8 bit/pixel) images out of this thing, I would greatly appreciate your sending it to me. Thanks.

comp.graphics

G'day all, Can anybody point me at a utility which will read/convert/crop/whatnot/ display HDF image files ? I've had a look at the HDF stuff under NCSA and it must take an award for odd directory structure, strange storage approaches and minimalist documentation :-) Part of the problem is that I want to look at large (5MB+) HDF files and crop out a section. Ideally I would like a hdftoppm type of utility, from which I can then use the PBMplus stuff quite merrily. I can convert the cropped part into another format for viewing/animation. Otherwise, can someone please explain how to set up the NCSA Visualisation S/W for HDF (3.2.r5 or 3.3beta) and do the above cropping/etc. This is for Suns with SunOS 4.1.2. Any help GREATLY appreciated. Ta muchly ! Cheers, Markus -- Markus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility email = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au Australian National University, Canberra, 0200 , Australia. [International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747]

comp.graphics

Nothing but errors and omissions here!

-- Try MetaCard - a HyperCard-like programming environment on X.

comp.windows.x

Yup. I agree with ya. I think Devils can beat Red Wings easily. SO I think all those who send in their votes should try all these diffrent teams before voting. I think Islanders and Quebec are much better then I had expected. COBRA

rec.sport.hockey

If I don't think my belief is right and everyone else's belief is wrong, then I don't have a belief. This is simply what belief means. Where does the authority for a belief come from? Nowhere, for a belief is itself authoratative. If I produce authority for a belief, where will I find authority for my belief in the legitimacy of the authority. In short, the mind has to start somewhere. (By the way, the majority of Christians, i.e. Catholics, believe in the authority of the Church, and derive the authority of the Bible from its acceptance by the Church.)

soc.religion.christian

AH! But what, exactly, is "inherently abhorrent" and WHY is it so? What you're saying is, in effect, "I think some things are repulsive, and I know a whole bunch of other people who agree with me, so they should be deemed absolutely immoral now and forever, period". Which in and of itself is nice enough; to some extent I agree with you. But I do _not_ agree that things are 'inherently' or 'absolutely' immoral; they are labeled 'immoral' each for its own good reason, and if the reason can even theoretically change, then so can the label. [...] No it doesn't. Humans are to some extent similar, because we all belong to the same species; that that species has evolved is another story altogether. To a certain extent evolution can even lend credence to moral absolutism (of a flavour). [...] You're saying morality is what'll keep society alive and kicking. It is, I think, up to a point; but societies are not all alike, and neither are their moralities. Similar != identical. No, it's falsifiable through finding someoe who was "created different", whatever that might be in the "real" world.

alt.atheism

Motorola has a good app note on a 10 band equalizer using a 56000 DSP. It could be easily ported to an Ariel board, or even a Turtle Beach 56K development system.

sci.electronics

>[I'm sort of mystified about how a Christian might respond to this.] I'll start with a parable. A Christian woman hires a carpenter to build her a birdhouse. When he comes over, they begin talking about religion. "So you believe that you understand God?" he asks. "Yes, I do," she replies. "Then have him build you the birdhouse."

soc.religion.christian

I have found that this isn't a very effective argument. Most atheists are perfectly willing to acknowledge the existence and ministry of Jesus--but are quite capable of rationalizing the miracles and the resurrection into misunderstandings, hoaxes, or simple fabrications. They can always make an analogy with the _Iliad_, a book that tells the story of the historical Trojan War, but also talks about gods and goddesses and their conversations. I don't think it's possible to convince atheists of the validity of Christianity through argument. We have to help foster faith and an understanding of God. I could be wrong--are there any former atheists here who were led to Christianity by argument?

soc.religion.christian

Just out of curiosity, what happened to the weekly AL and NL Game Score Reports? I used to enjoy reading them throughout the summer for the last two years. Inquisitively yours, Joel

rec.sport.baseball

But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

There is something going on here. It seems that once a month, the VW group must have get a specific detailed question about Hondas. I would like to ask that next month we get one about Hyundai instead of Honda. Thank you.

rec.autos

Well, it's been a while since this was discussed so i take the liberty of reprinting (without permission, so sue me) Eric Haines reprint of the very interesting discussion of this topic... /Jonas O / \ O ------------------------- X snip snip X ------------------------------ O \ / O "Give a man a fish, and he'll eat one day. Give a man a fishing rod, and he'll laze around fishing and never do anything." With that in mind, I reprint (without permission, so sue me) relevant information posted some years ago on this very problem. Note the early use of PostScript technology, predating many of this year's papers listed in the April 1st SIGGRAPH Program Announcement posted here a few days ago. -- Eric Intersection Between a Line and a Polygon (UNDECIDABLE??), by Dave Baraff, Tom Duff From: deb@charisma.graphics.cornell.edu Newsgroups: comp.graphics Keywords: P, NP, Jordan curve separation, Ursyhon Metrization Theorem Organization: Program of Computer Graphics I think that this is a very difficult problem. To start with, lines and polygons are semi-algebraic sets which both contain uncountable number of points. Here are a few off-the-cuff ideas. First, we need to check if the line and the polygon are separated. Now, the Jordan curve separation theorem says that the polygon divides the plane into exactly two open (and thus non-compact) regions. Thus, the line lies completely inside the polygon, the line lies completely outside the polygon, or possibly (but this will rarely happen) the line intersects the polyon. Now, the phrasing of this question says "if a line intersects a polygon", so this is a decision problem. One possibility (the decision model approach) is to reduce the question to some other (well known) problem Q, and then try to solve Q. An answer to Q gives an answer to the original decision problem. In recent years, many geometric problems have been successfully modeled in a new language called PostScript. (See "PostScript Language", by Adobe Systems Incorporated, ISBN # 0-201-10179-3, co. 1985). So, given a line L and a polygon P, we can write a PostScript program that draws the line L and the polygon P, and then "outputs" the answer. By "output", we mean the program executes a command called "showpage", which actually prints a page of paper containing the line and the polygon. A quick examination of the paper provides an answer to the reduced problem Q, and thus the original problem. There are two small problems with this approach. (1) There is an infinite number of ways to encode L and P into the reduced problem Q. So, we will be forced to invoke the Axiom of Choice (or equivalently, Zorn's Lemma). But the use of the Axiom of Choice is not regarded in a very serious light these days. (2) More importantly, the question arises as to whether or not the PostScript program Q will actually output a piece of paper; or in other words, will it halt? Now, PostScript is expressive enough to encode everything that a Turing Machine might do; thus the halting problem (for PostScript) is undecidable. It is quite possible that the original problem will turn out to be undecidable. I won't even begin to go into other difficulties, such as aliasing, finite precision and running out of ink, paper or both. A couple of references might be: 1. Principia Mathematica. Newton, I. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, England. (Sorry, I don't have an ISBN# for this). 2. An Introduction to Automata Theory, Languages, and Computation. Hopcroft, J and Ulman, J. 3. The C Programming Language. Kernighan, B and Ritchie, D. 4. A Tale of Two Cities. Dickens, C. -------- From: td@alice.UUCP (Tom Duff) Summary: Overkill. Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ The situation is not nearly as bleak as Baraff suggests (he should know better, he's hung around The Labs for long enough). By the well known Dobbin-Dullman reduction (see J. Dullman & D. Dobbin, J. Comp. Obfusc. 37,ii: pp. 33-947, lemma 17(a)) line-polygon intersection can be reduced to Hamiltonian Circuit, without(!) the use of Grobner bases, so LPI (to coin an acronym) is probably only NP-complete. Besides, Turing-completeness will no longer be a problem once our Cray-3 is delivered, since it will be able to complete an infinite loop in 4 milliseconds (with scatter-gather.) -------- From: deb@svax.cs.cornell.edu (David Baraff) Well, sure its no worse than NP-complete, but that's ONLY if you restrict yourself to the case where the line satisfies a Lipschitz condition on its second derivative. (I think there's an '89 SIGGRAPH paper from Caltech that deals with this). --

comp.graphics

Well, actually, most of ours is based on what really happened and yours is based on some fantasy of how it happened. But that's OK, I understand you have a hockey background. Stats like "plus/minus" make RBI look good. OK, how about a straigh answer, then. Here's a very simele question to which I'm sure a fair number of us are very interesed in the answer to. Please answer yes or no, Roger: Can a pitcher cause the offensive players on his team to score more runs? AL only, please. For anyone else following along, it is a well-known and demonstrable fact that a team's win-loss record is closely related to the number of runs the team scores and the number the team allows. It's not a definite, hard-and-fast function, but there is definitely a correlation. In fact, as a rule of thumb, if teams A and B both score X runs and team A allows Y runs, for every 10 runs fewer than Y that team B allows, it will win another game. So, for instance, if we look at the 1991 Toronto Blue Jays, we find that they scored 780 runs and allowed 682, of which Morris allowed 114. All other things being equal, if Frank Viola, with his 3.44 ERA had replaced Jack Morris for the 240.2 innings Morris threw (plausible, since Viola threw 238 for Boston), the "Red Jays" would have allowed about 15 fewer runs, or enough for 1-2 more wins. Now, that doesn't take into account that Viola pitched half his innings in Fenway, which is a harder park to pitch in (particularly for a lefthander) than Skydome. So, um, Roger. Unless you really do believe that a pitcher can somehow affect the number of runs his team scores, could you enlighten us to the fallacy in this analysis? Clearly, it would be foolhardy to claim that Viola would necessarily have put up a 3.44 if he had been on the Jay last year, but that is not the claim. We look at what the actual performances were and evaluate Viola's as better than Morris' in the sense that "had Morris performed as Viola did, his team would have been better off." This is true, but not so open that your brain falls out. Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com

rec.sport.baseball

And the reason that the Soviet Union couldn't achieve the ideal of pure communism was the hostility of surrounding capitalist nations...Uh huh. Somehow, this all sounds familiar. Once again, utopian dreams are confronted by the real world...

talk.politics.misc

I just recently bought a 4 MB ram card for my original mac portable (backlit) and have since had some bizarre crashes. It happens when I put the machine to sleep and wake the machine up. sometimes it will just freeze the cursor and lock the machine up forcing me to push the reset switch. Other times it will give me the usual bomb box with the error message of "Co processor not installed". I know one solution is NOT to put the machine to sleep, but does anyone have any ideas on what could be causing this or better yet what might fix it? The memory card is Psuedostatic ram and goes into the PDS Slot. That probably figures into the problem. the manufacturer is King Memory (Not kingston) from irvine, CA. They say the problem is in my machine. Any Ideas? -- Gene Wright.

comp.sys.mac.hardware

Whether there is a "why" or not we have to find it. This is Pascal's(?) wager. If there is no why and we spend our lives searching, then we have merely wasted our lives, which were meaningless anyway. If there is a why and we don't search for it, then we have wasted our potentially meaningful lives. Suppose the universe is 5 billion years old, and suppose it lasts another 5 billion years. Suppose I live to be 100. That is nothing, that is so small that it is scary. So by searching for the "why" along with my friends here on earth if nothing else we aren't so scared. What if you woke up at a party, with no memory, and everyone was discussing who the host might be? There might not be a host, you say. I say let's go find him, the party's going to be over sometime, maybe he'll let us stay. Because we recognize our own mortality we have to find the "why". This is a good point. But more of a good point for studying religion than ignoring it. Some Christians disagree with me, but it is worthwhile to study different religions and philosophies and glean the truth from them. To quote (of course out of context) "Test everything and keep what is true."

soc.religion.christian

Who compared Quayle to Gore? Mark said he had never heard of any incident in which the thrower of the ceremonial ball had been booed before. I mentioned another incident. (And if the media had a liberal bias, I'm sure he would have heard of the Quayle incident.) If I was to compare Quayle to anyone, it most likely would be Elmer Fudd.

talk.politics.misc

Dyer, you're rude. Medicine is not a totallly scientific endevour. It's often practiced in a disorganized manner. Most early treatment of non-life threatening illness is done on a guess, hazarded after anecdotal evidence given by the patient. It's an educated guess, by a trained person, but it's still no more than a guess. It's cheaper and simpler to medicate first and only deal further with those people who don't respond. There are diseases that haven't been described yet and the root cause of many diseases now described aren't known. (Read a book on gastroenterology sometime if you want to see a lot of them.) After scientific methods have run out then it's the patient's freedom of choice to try any experimental method they choose. And it's well recognized by many doctors that medicine doesn't have all the answers. This person said that they had relief by taking the medicine. Maybe it's a miracle cure, maybe it's valid. How do you know? You might argue with the reasoning, the conclusions. But your disparaging attack is unwarranted. Why don't you present an convincing argument for you r beliefs, instead of wasting our time in an ad hominem attack.

sci.med

740 Turbo in UK was good for 124mph. Useful for blowing away VW Beetles, though I believe the Beetle corners better. I can say without any doubt that I have never been blown away by any Volvo, ever. I've been blocked into a few car parks though by shit-head Volvo owners who 'only thought they'd be a few minutes'. This does not happen with the owners of any other makes of car.

rec.autos

Note: These trial updates are summarized from reports in the _Idaho Statesman_ and the local NBC affiliate television station, KTVB Channel 7. Randy Weaver/Kevin Harris trial update: Day 5. Monday, April 19, 1993 was the fifth day of the trial. Synopsis: Government informant Kenneth Fadeley testified that Randy Weaver sold him two shotguns in violation of the National Firearms Act of 1934. U.S. District Court Judge Edward Lodge asks jurors not to hear accounts of the Waco fire because of possible influences on the Weaver/Harris case. The testimony of FBI Special Agent Greg Rampton apparently ended without further incident, as it was mentioned neither by KTVB nor the _Idaho Statesman_. The day was highlighted by the testimony of Kenneth Fadeley, who had been posing as an outlaw biker and illegal guns person named Gus Magiosono. Fadeley testified that he was acting as an informant for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms in his dealings with Randy Weaver. Fadeley began by stating that he had met Weaver in 1987 at an Aryan Nations summer conference in Hayden Lake, Idaho. The two then met again October 11, 1989 (note the huge separation in time) at a restaurant in Sandpoint, Idaho, to begin a weapons transaction. He stated that Weaver had said, "He felt like he (Weaver) was being prepared to do something dangerous for the White cause." The two later met October 24, 1989 behind the restaurant and later went to a city park to make the sale. During this second meeting, Fadeley was wearing a small recording device to tape the conversation. Weaver allegedly showed him an H&R 12- gauge shotgun with a 13-inch barrel and an overall length of 19.25 inches. He additionally showed a Remington 12-gauge shotgun with a 12.75-inch barrel and an overall length of 24.5 inches (NFA requires minimums of 18 inches for barrel length and an overall length of 26 inches). On tape, Weaver is reported to have said that he could perform better work once his machine shop is set up. The two then discuss the possibility of future sales. Fadeley then counts out three hundred dollars for the two guns and promises the balance of one-hundred fifty dollars when they next meet. (Note that the ATF could have simply arrested him here. Why did they wait until January 1991 - over a year later - to arrest him? This is not explained). The next meeting took place on Nov 30, 1989. Fadeley stated that his "source" had only come up with one hundred dollars instead of the one-hundred fifty he'd promised. At this point, Weaver suspected he was dealing with an informant, "I had a guy in Spokane tell me you were bad." Fadeley managed to convince Weaver otherwise. The _Idaho Statesman_ states explicitly that three tapes were made of conversations with Randy Weaver. Thus, each of these meetings must have been recorded. However, the _Statesman_ also reported that a tape of a telephone conversation involving Vicki Weaver (Randy Weaver's wife) was played to the court. There must have also been phone taps. These tapes were played to the court via both headphones and loudspeakers under the objections of Gerry Spence, Weaver's attorney. Spence said to a KTVB reporter that he wanted to make sure that the government proved its case, "...if it has a case at all..." according to the rules. Randy Weaver tore off his headphones and wept when he heard his wife's voice on the tape. U.S. District Court Judge Edward Lodge asked jurors not to hear accounts of the Waco fire because of possible influences on the Weaver/Harris case. Exactly how such information could affect this trial is not explained. Other notes: Sunday evening there was a report on KTVB concerning Kevin Harris. Unnamed agents within the FBI admit that they are surprised that Kevin Harris is still alive. First, they were surprised that he survived the initial gunshot wound(s) sustained in the initial firefight at the Y-junction. Later, when Randy Weaver was struck by sniper fire the sniper had reported that Harris had been struck (not Weaver). Finally, there was a report that the FBI agent who killed Vicki Weaver believed he was aiming at Kevin Harris instead. (This is what was reported). Critics are charging that the FBI was blatantly trying to eliminate the only non-government witness to the deaths of Samuel Weaver and Deputy Marshal William Degan. Some local people believe that Harris's survival is simply due to divine intervention.

talk.politics.guns

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The point you all seem to have missed was covered when the UK cellphone scrambling system was discussed. Incidentally, my MP has responded to my questions on that issue, and it appears that the UK and other `approved' countries will get the secure A5 encryption, and `dodgy' countries will get A5X. Existing mobile equipment will drop to clear mode when used with A5X systems, but newer equipment will use A5/A5X/clear depending on the capabilities of the base station. The cops/feds do *not* need to be able to get hold of your private key to listen in to cellular conversations. Encryption is not end-to-end, but cellphone to base-station - it *has* to be this way so that cellular users and fixed installations can talk to each other. For cellular to cellular calls, the transmission is decrypted at the base-station, passed to another base-station and re-encrypted. The cops/feds can listen to the unscrambled call *provided* they get a warrant to tap into the cellular provider's equipment. The only reason for wanting a crackable system is so they can listen without having to obtain a warrant. But, maybe the Clipper system is secure, and they really do need a warrant to get the key out of escrow before they can listen in using a scanner (see above - they don't *have* to go down this route anyway). I have my doubts, but even if true once they have the key they will *never* again need a warrant to tap into that particular phone whenever they want. `Well, Judge, it appears he wasn't a drug-dealer after all, so naturally we'll stop listening in'... You have every reason to be scared shitless. Take a look at the records of McCarthy, Hoover (J. Edgar, not the cleaner - though they both excelled at sucking) and Nixon. - --Paul -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.2

sci.crypt

Hey Valentine, I don't see Boston with any world series rings on their fingers. Damn, Morris now has three and probably the Hall of Fame in his future. Therefore, I would have to say Toronto easily made the best signing. And don't tell me Boston will win this year. They won't even be in the top 4 in the division, more like 6th.

rec.sport.baseball

I assume you are posting to encourage comments - how much history has Tony Campello read? Not much it seems. It is good to hear that there are a few reasonable Christians about. If only those christian "scientists" would take note. (In Australia there is a very strong movement, a bunch of christian scientists who believe that every single event in the bible is exactly true, and that there is a rational explanation for it all that can be justified by using the laws of physics. For example, there are a few chaps who are trying to prove that the age of the universe is 6000 years old, and that the error in conventional calculations is the result of the fact that the speed light has been rapidly decaying over the years, and this has not been accounted for. :-] ) Or (of course), that he never existed, and the bible was a story, and was never intended to become a manifesto for a billion people. Did Tony follow that one up? Millions of people have "died for a lie". This point is difficult to substantiate since it is not well defined (a great many religious arguments work in that way), but consider the many Aztec warriors who sacrificed themselves to their gods in the belief that this act would bring them victory of the Spanish invaders. The list is endless. The Aztecs lost, BTW. That is perfectly reasonable, but it is not grounds for me (or anyone) to become a christian. More to the point, it does not add weight to the claim that Jesus was the "real thing". Have you ever seen a documentary about the rise of Nazi Germany? More to the point, did Tony mention this? One could hardly call Werner Heisenberg and his many colleagues fools, or illogical men, their support of Hitler was based (I presume) upon an emotional issue rather than a rational agreement with his principles. Obviously my argument is invalid if Tony thought that Hitler was sane.... Hmmm.... I don't think his arguments warrant the use of a "Therefore..." This is (unfortunately) what alot of religious discussions I have had with people result in - quoting the bible. The only reasonable way I think people can look at the bible is to treat the stories as some sort of metaphorical representation of the messages that the authors were trying to present. If someone tries to interpret parts of the bible literally, he or she will end up in all sorts of shit. Tony's argument would be perfectly reasonable for people who believe the events described in the bible took place, but to convince someone, who thinks the bible is total fiction, that Jesus is real by quoting the book is totally pointless. For example, in mathematics you cannot say "a is equal to b because a is equal to b". That would possibly explain why there have so many people being killed in religious wars, and why there are hundreds of different versions all claiming to be correct. It I think if you posted this part to alt.religion you would get more flames than here :-). I have never really understood why the emotional sentiments of a stranger should be of interest to other people. Someone famous said that there two evils in life, polititians and churchs, one rules by fear of the living, the other by fear of the dead. If I am pressed I could probably find the exact quotation.

alt.atheism

You are right but PLEASE DON'T DO THIS. It makes my brain hurt. USPosition and USSize should ONLY be set if the USER specified the position and size. You say: "Tom, don't blow a gasket, what's the harm?" Some window managers do very different things (besides positioning the window) when they see USPosition rather than PPosition.

comp.windows.x

What, did you leave the room each of the 100 or so times they said that there WERE NO OTHER NIGHT BASEBALL GAMES? Every break they took back at the studio mentioned it, followed by 'so...we're gonna show you hockey instead.' My wife and I are hoping for rain at every baseball game they have a feed for tommorrow night... Point is, be glad they showed hockey, but if baseball was available anywhere else you can bet you would've watched baseball last night.

rec.sport.hockey

I'm looking for a Singer Featherweight 221 sewing machine (old, black sewing machine in black case). Please contact:

misc.forsale

I've changed the battery in the thing (shortly after the problem first happened) and I've noticed an inordinate number of Bus errors lately...

comp.sys.mac.hardware

According to what I have read on Biblical idioms, speaking "in X's name" is a standard Aramaic/Hebrew legal idiom for what we today would call Power of Attorney. A person from Jesus' culture authorized to conduct business "in John's name" had full authority over John's financial affairs, but was held under a solemn fiduciary obligation to work only for John's benefit and consonant with John's wishes. It was not required for the steward to preface each business transaction with "in John's name"; it was sufficient to have valid power of attorney and be operating in good faith. (Note the overlap here between legal and religious definitions of "faith".) With this cultural background, praying "in Jesus' name" does not mandate a particular verbal formula; rather it requires that the petitioner be operating faithfully and consciously within an analogous "fiduciary" relationship with Jesus and for the purposes of His Kingdom. The message of "praying in Jesus' name" is thus closely aligned with the parable of the talents and other passages about God's delegation of Kingdom business to his stewards, both resources and responsibilities. This idea of praying "in Jesus' name" is not only present but prominent in the Lord's Prayer, although the verbal forumula is absent. The act of praying the words "In Jesus' Name" may be beneficial if they cause us to clarify the relationship of our requests to the advancement of God's Kingdom. For that reason, I'm not quite ready to say that the praying the formula is without meaning. Prayers to God for other purposes (desperation, anger, thanksgiving, etc.) don't seem to be in this category at all, whether uttered by Christian or non-Christian, whether B.C. or A.D. (that's B.C.E. or C.E. for you P.C. :-). I don't see anything in Christ's words to contradict the idea that God deals with all prayers according to His omniscience and grace. Van Kelly vek@research.att.com

soc.religion.christian

In <1r1om5$c5m@slab.mtholyoke.edu> jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) Then it is a good thing we already have this: The csspub mailing list: csspab@mail-gw.ncsl.nist.gov, and address on the clipper mailing list, seems to contain basically the members of the NIST security board. In addition to the names already posted, their true names are as follows: burrows@ecf = James Burrows a director of NIST's National Computer Systems Laboratory mcnulty@ecf = F. Lynn McNulty an associate director for computer security at the National Institute of Standards and Technology's Computer Systems Laboratory Gangemi@dockmaster.ncsc.mil = Gaetano Gangemi is director of the Security Basics by Deborah Russell and G. T. Gangemi, Sr. -1991, O'Reilly and Associates slambert@cgin.cto.citicorp.com = Sandra Lambert is vice-president of information security at Citibank, N.A. lipner@mitre.org = Lipner is Mitre Corp.'s director of information systems. gallagher@dockmaster.ncsc.mil = Patrick Gallagher, director of the National Security Agency's National Computer Security Center and a security board member walker@tis.com = Stephen Walker a computer security expert and president of Trusted Information Systems, Inc. in Glenwood, Md willis@rand.org = Willis H. Ware a the Rand Corp. executive who chairs the security board. whitehurst@vnet.ibm.com = William Whitehurst is a security board member and director of IBM Corp.'s data security programs. -- Harry Shapiro habs@panix.com List Administrator of the Extropy Institute Mailing List Private Communication for the Extropian Community since 1991

sci.crypt

Splitfires work mainly by providing a more-or-less unshrouded spark to the combustion chamber. If an engine's cylinder head design can benefit from this, then the splitfires will yield a slight performance increase, most noticeably in lower rpm range torque. Splitfires didn't do diddly-squat for my 1992 GMC pickup (4.3l V6) but do give a noticeable performance boost in my 1991 Harley Sportster 1200 and my best friend's 1986 Sportster 883. Folks I know who've tried them in 1340 Evo motors can't tell any performance boost over plain plugs (which is interesting since the XLH and big twin EVO combustion chambers are pretty much the same shape, just different sizes). Two of my friends who have shovelhead Harleys swear by the splitfires but if I had a shovelhead, I'd dual-plug it instead since they respond well enough to dual plugs to make the machine work and extra ignition system worth the expense (plus they look really cool with a spark plug on each side of each head)

rec.motorcycles

Most of the key issues in the 284 line post to which I am following up are dealt with in the following post I made on talk.abortion yesterday, modified to correct the next to last paragraph. Message-ID: <nyikos.734890344@milo.math.scarolina.edu> References: <nyikos.734360987@milo.math.scarolina.edu> <nyikos.734640769@milo.math.scarolina.edu> <1993Apr13.122356.3612@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> Dean did not. He called them "the Great Commission" but this is NOT descriptive of Jesus's words in Matt. 10:15. Matt. 10:14, Jerusalem Bible translation: "And if anyone does not welcome you or listen to what you have to say, as you walk out of the house or town shake the dust from your feet." Matt. 10:15: "I tell you solemnly, on the day of Judgment it will not go as hard with the land of Sodom and Gomorrah as with that town." "> The above is a good description of Kaflowitz, who keeps harping on > shaking the dust off the feet but ignoring what Christ said next." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ The highlighted words refer to Matt 10:14 and 10:15 respectively. And Dean countered: "Actually, this comment of your's is a perfect example of what an intellectually dishonest little sparrowfart you are, since I specifically acknowledged the Great Commission and the entreaty to spread the word. In fact, it is the combination of the two statements I was addressing, and not just the one, and for you to characterize that as "ignoring" the instruction to spread the word is a good example of what a dishonest little fellow you are." Of course, Matt 10:15 [quoted above] makes no mention of "instruction to spread the word." All these quotes btw are from: Message-ID: <1993Apr13.121624.3400@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> And I claim it correctly, because my question went: "Do you, too, measure the goodness of a post by its entertainment value, and care not a whit for such mundane things as truth and falsehood?" and the closest Dean came to an answer was: "Peter, Peter, Peter. You're just so stupid, pretentious, dull, and generally unworthy of the value you place on yourself that the sport is all there is." Of course, this does NOT answer my question, which has to do with posts in GENERAL and not my posts in particular. Surely even Dean knows this, yet he brazenly asserts otherwise, reinforcing his claim with an insult: "So I now restore the answer to your question that you deleted. If you're still unable to figure it out, ask a nice kid at the local junior high to help you. It really doesn't take much sophistication to understand." On top of which, I doubt that the "answer" is at all representative of Dean's true frame of mind. The insults you have seen quoted thus far are but a small sample of the stream that oozes out of Dean's mind throughout the 284-line post from which these quotes were taken. One wonders whether Dean's mind is so warped as to find sport in all this. He even dredges up a falsified account of events that transpired earlier on another thread: "You made an ass of yourself by claiming that it ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ was in the tradition of Lent to make public announcements of ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ the "sins" of other individuals." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ False. I said it was the tradition to recall and atone for one's sins. That I made public announcements of the "sins" of others --"sins", BTW, that were a matter of public record, documented in the posts of others-- is a different matter. Many of the individuals involved are so nearly amoral that they do not see as sins what morally upright people see as sins, so I pointed some of them out. And I expressly set up a whole thread, YOUR TURN, to let people point out MY sins to me. Dean again: "You made an ass of yourself by saying that my statement of the tradition of tzedukkah was somehow an attempt to "paint Jews as plaster saints," thereby revealing your inability to understand the discussion as well as showing your dislike for people saying positive things about Jews, and now you show your intellectual dishonesty by repeatedly ignoring the simple argument being made, and then claiming I am ignoring the very argument I acknowledge." Actually, what happened was that Dean made it seem like ANY Jew who gave alms or did other acts of charity in public was a hypocrite according to Jewish customs. In doing so, he was caricaturing Jewish customs as being almost impossibly demanding, as well as implicitly slandering all Jews who make public their acts of charity. I went very easily on Dean for this, giving him the benefit of the doubt in a post following my initial crack about "plaster saints", suggesting that he had been merely careless in his wording. In an astonishing act of ingratitude, Dean now serves up an incredibly distorted picture of what took place between us, and using it as the basis of one insult after another.

talk.religion.misc

The XView version 3 source distribution included in the contrib section of X11R5 included the source to the textedit program. I'd like to take the sources and modify them to add support for a ToolTalk-like message server, and maybe for ToolTalk while I'm at it, since the Sun-supplied textedit binary doesn't seem to speak tooltalk. However, the sources in the R5 contrib area seem to be for an older version of textedit than the version shipped with OpenWindows 3. For example, the OWN 3.0 textedit includes drag and drop support and a dropsite in the main control area, while the source in contrib/xview knows nothing about drag and drop. The textedit.c included in the xview sources says it's version 15.50, textedit.c 2.62 91/09/14 Copyr 1990 Sun Micro dragdrop.c 1.26 91/09/14 Copyr 1990 Sun Micro tooltalk.c 2.16 91/09/14 Copyr 1990 Sun Micro ds_relname.c 1.7 91/09/14 Copyr 1990 Sun Micro So, does anyone know if the 9/14/91 sources to textedit are available? I'd really like to work from the latest source if possible. Please reply by email, and I'll post a summary if there's enough interest.

comp.windows.x

Hi, netters I am looking for source code that can reads the ascii file or bitmap file and produced the thinned image. For example, to preprocess the character image I want to apply thinning algorithm.

comp.graphics

I have a similar configuration: Colorado 250mb on 66 DX/2 tower. You got suckered in the same way I did. Silly me, believing that the "250" logo on the front meant actual carrying capacity. The people who do this sort of thing for a living call it "marketing." Lawyers who prosecute it call it "fraud." Perhaps we can have a bunch of other duped buyers march on their corporate headquarters. This is a bit long. My system takes about 45 minutes to do the same thing. Usually 4.5 hours, particularly if the tape is grinding away the whole time means that your block size for the write is too small. Is there any way to change the block size or write buffer size so it's bigger? This is because the files are opened by DOS. The files in the TAPE directory are likely the executable file or the configuration file for the tape system. I would recommend running the backup from DOS so it will make a complete backup of the TAPE directory. The 250mb cartridges won't do you any good since the drive won't write 250mb of physical data on the tape.

comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware

Please do...and let us know specifics. (lest I'm the only one on this). Mickey

comp.os.ms-windows.misc

If you force me to do something, am I morally responsible for it? Well, make up your mind. Is it to be "instinctive not to murder" or not? It's not even correct. Animals of the same species do kill one another. Sigh. I wonder how many times we have been round this loop. I think that instinctive bahaviour has no moral significance. I am quite prepared to believe that higher animals, such as primates, have the beginnings of a moral sense, since they seem to exhibit self-awareness. So what? Are you trying to say that some killing in animals has a moral significance and some does not? Is this your natural morality> Are you blind? What do you think that this sentence means? "There must be the possibility that the organism - it's not just people we are talking about - can consider alternatives." What would that imply? I find the fact that they do to be significant.

alt.atheism

You assume this because you believe in a designing creator, and you observe our ability to procreate... .... But then you observe our ability to modify fertility through intelligence & experiment, and draw no similar conclusions about God designing us for scientific inquiry & the use of the technology that it produces. How is it that one ability is "obviously from God", and the other not? I want to know the truth, and hold the Truth as the most basic of all ethical values, because correct moral judgement relies on knowing the truth, not vice versa. Moralities that assert that assent to a belief is a moral choice, and not compelled by evidence inevitably cut off the limb they sit upon. Falsification of evidence, conscious and unconscious, follows corrupting both the intellect and the heart. If there is a God, he has nothing to fear from truth. As to imaginary gods and there followers: Be afraid. Be very afraid.

soc.religion.christian

April 24th is approaching, and Armenians around the world are getting ready to remember the massacres of their family members by the Turkish government between 1915 and 1920. At least 1.5 Million Armenians perished during that period, and it is important to note that those who deny that this event ever took place, either supported the policy of 1915 to exterminate the Armenians, or, as we have painfully witnessed in Azerbaijan, would like to see it happen again... Thank you for taking the time to read this post.

talk.politics.mideast

------------- cut here ----------------- Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 +------------------------------------------------+ ! ! ! Health Info-Com Network ! ! Medical Newsletter ! +------------------------------------------------+ Editor: David Dodell, D.M.D. 10250 North 92nd Street, Suite 210, Scottsdale, Arizona 85258-4599 USA Telephone +1 (602) 860-1121 FAX +1 (602) 451-1165 Compilation Copyright 1993 by David Dodell, D.M.D. All rights Reserved. License is hereby granted to republish on electronic media for which no fees are charged, so long as the text of this copyright notice and license are attached intact to any and all republished portion or portions. The Health Info-Com Network Newsletter is distributed biweekly. Articles on a medical nature are welcomed. If you have an article, please contact the editor for information on how to submit it. If you are interested in joining the automated distribution system, please contact the editor. E-Mail Address: Editor: Internet: david@stat.com FidoNet = 1:114/15 Bitnet = ATW1H@ASUACAD LISTSERV = MEDNEWS@ASUACAD.BITNET (or internet: mednews@asuvm.inre.asu.edu) anonymous ftp = vm1.nodak.edu Notification List = hicn-notify-request@stat.com FAX Delivery = Contact Editor for information :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: T A B L E O F C O N T E N T S 1. Comments & News from the Editor OCR / Scanner News ................................................... 1 2. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - MMWR [16 April 1993] Emerging Infectious Diseases ......................... 3 Outbreak of E. coli Infections from Hamburgers ....................... 5 Use of Smokeless Tobacoo Among Adults ................................ 10 Gonorrhea ............................................................ 14 Impact of Adult Safety-Belt Use on Children less than 11 years Age ... 17 Publication of CDC Surveillance Summaries ............................ 21 3. Clinical Research News High Tech Assisted Reproductive Technologies ......................... 24 4. Articles Low Levels Airborne Particles Linked to Serious Asthma Attacks ....... 29 NIH Consensus Development Conference on Melanoma ..................... 31 National Cancer Insitute Designated Cancer Centers ................... 32 5. General Announcments UCI Medical Education Software Repository ............................ 40 6. AIDS News Summaries AIDS Daily Summary April 12 to April 15, 1993 ........................ 41 7. AIDS/HIV Articles First HIV Vaccine Trial Begins in HIV-Infected Children .............. 47 New Evidence that the HIV Can Cause Disease Independently ............ 50 Clinical Consultation Telephone Service for AIDS ..................... 52 HICNet Medical Newsletter Page i Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Comments & News from the Editor :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: I would like to continue to thank everyone who has sent in a donation for the Mednews OCR/Scanner Fund. We have reached our goal! A Hewlett Packard Scanjet IIp was purchased this week. Thank you to the following individuals whose contributions I just received: John Sorenson Carol Sigelman Carla Moore Barbara Moose Judith Schrier Again, thank you to all who gave! I have been using Wordscan Plus for the past couple of weeks and would like to review the product. Wordscan Plus is a product of Calera Recognition Systems. It runs under Windows 3.1 and supports that Accufont Technology of the Hewlett Packard Scanners. When initially bringing up the software, it lets you select several options; (1) text / graphics (2) input source ie scanner, fax file, disk file (3) automatic versus manual decomposition of the scanned image. I like manual decomposition since the software then lets me select which parts of the document I would like scanned, and in what order. Once an image is scanned, you can bring up the Pop-Up image verification. The software gives you two "errors" at this point. Blue which are words that were converted reliability, but do not match anything in the built-in dictionary. Yellow shade, which are words that Wordscan Plus doesn't think it converted correctly at all. I have found that the software should give itself more credit. It is usually correct, instead of wrong. If a word is shaded blue, you can add it to your personal dictionary. The only problem is the personal dictionary will only handle about 200 words. I find this to be very limited, considering how many medical terms are not in a normal dictionary. After a document is converted, you can save it in a multitude of word processor formats. Also any images that were captured can be stored in a seperate TIFF or PCX file format. I was extremely impressed on the percent accuracy for fax files. I use HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 1 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 an Intel Satisfaxtion card, which stores incoming faxs in a PCX/DCX format. While most of my faxes were received in "standard" mode (200x100 dpi), the accuracy of Wordscan Plus was excellent. Overall, a very impressive product. The only fault I could find is the limitations of the size of the user dictionary. 200 specialized words is just too small. If anyone has any specific questions, please do not hesitate to send me email. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 2 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - MMWR :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Emerging Infectious Diseases ============================ SOURCE: MMWR 42(14) DATE: Apr 16, 1993 Introduction Despite predictions earlier this century that infectious diseases would soon be eliminated as a public health problem (1), infectious diseases remain the major cause of death worldwide and a leading cause of illness and death in the United States. Since the early 1970s, the U.S. public health system has been challenged by a myriad of newly identified pathogens and syndromes (e.g., Escherichia coli O157:H7, hepatitis C virus, human immunodeficiency virus, Legionnaires disease, Lyme disease, and toxic shock syndrome). The incidences of many diseases widely presumed to be under control, such as cholera, malaria, and tuberculosis (TB), have increased in many areas. Furthermore, control and prevention of infectious diseases are undermined by drug resistance in conditions such as gonorrhea, malaria, pneumococcal disease, salmonellosis, shigellosis, TB, and staphylococcal infections (2). Emerging infections place a disproportionate burden on immunocompromised persons, those in institutional settings (e.g., hospitals and child day care centers), and minority and underserved populations. The substantial economic burden of emerging infections on the U.S. health-care system could be reduced by more effective surveillance systems and targeted control and prevention programs (3). This issue of MMWR introduces a new series, "Emerging Infectious Diseases." Future articles will address these diseases, as well as surveillance, control, and prevention efforts by health-care providers and public health officials. This first article updates the ongoing investigation of an outbreak of E. coli O157:H7 in the western United States (4). References 1. Burnet M. Natural history of infectious disease. Cambridge, England: Cambridge University Press, 1963. 2. Kunin CM. Resistance to antimicrobial drugs -- a worldwide calamity. Ann Intern Med 1993;118:557-61. 3. Lederberg J, Shope RE, Oaks SC Jr, eds. Emerging infections: microbial threats to health in the United States. Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1992. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 3 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 4. CDC. Preliminary report: foodborne outbreak of Escherichia coli O157:H7 infections from hamburgers --western United States, 1993. MMWR 1993;42:85-6. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 4 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 Update: Multistate Outbreak of Escherichia coli O157:H7 Infections from Hamburgers -- Western United States, 1992-1993 ======================================================= SOURCE: MMWR 42(14) DATE: Apr 16, 1993 From November 15, 1992, through February 28, 1993, more than 500 laboratory-confirmed infections with E. coli O157:H7 and four associated deaths occurred in four states -- Washington, Idaho, California, and Nevada. This report summarizes the findings from an ongoing investigation (1) that identified a multistate outbreak resulting from consumption of hamburgers from one restaurant chain. Washington On January 13, 1993, a physician reported to the Washington Department of Health a cluster of children with hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS) and an increase in emergency room visits for bloody diarrhea. During January 16-17, a case-control study comparing 16 of the first cases of bloody diarrhea or postdiarrheal HUS identified with age- and neighborhood-matched controls implicated eating at chain A restaurants during the week before symptom onset (matched odds ratio OR=undefined; lower confidence limit=3.5). On January 18, a multistate recall of unused hamburger patties from chain A restaurants was initiated. As a result of publicity and case-finding efforts, during January- February 1993, 602 patients with bloody diarrhea or HUS were reported to the state health department. A total of 477 persons had illnesses meeting the case definition of culture-confirmed E. coli O157:H7 infection or postdiarrheal HUS (Figure 1). Of the 477 persons, 52 (11%) had close contact with a person with confirmed E. coli O157:H7 infection during the week preceding onset of symptoms. Of the remaining 425 persons, 372 (88%) reported eating in a chain A restaurant during the 9 days preceding onset of symptoms. Of the 338 patients who recalled what they ate in a chain A restaurant, 312 (92%) reported eating a regular-sized hamburger patty. Onsets of illness peaked from January 17 through January 20. Of the 477 casepatients, 144 (30%) were hospitalized; 30 developed HUS, and three died. The median age of patients was 7.5 years (range: 0-74 years). Idaho Following the outbreak report from Washington, the Division of Health, Idaho Department of Health and Welfare, identified 14 persons with culture- confirmed E. coli O157:H7 infection, with illness onset dates from December 11, 1992, through February 16, 1993 (Figure 2A). Four persons were hospitalized; one developed HUS. During the week preceding illness onset, 13 (93%) had eaten at a chain A restaurant. California In late December, the San Diego County Department of Health Services was notified of a child with E. coli O157:H7 infection who subsequently died. Active surveillance and record review then identified eight other persons with E. coli O157:H7 infections or HUS from mid-November through mid-January 1993. Four of the nine reportedly had recently eaten at a chain A restaurant and HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 5 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 four at a chain B restaurant in San Diego. After the Washington outbreak was reported, reviews of medical records at five hospitals revealed an overall 27% increase in visits or admissions for diarrhea during December 1992 and January 1993 compared with the same period 1 year earlier. A case was defined as postdiarrheal HUS, bloody diarrhea that was culture negative or not cultured, or any diarrheal illness in which stool culture yielded E. coli O157:H7, with onset from November 15, 1992, through January 31, 1993. Illnesses of 34 patients met the case definition (Figure 2B). The outbreak strain was identified in stool specimens of six patients. Fourteen persons were hospitalized, seven developed HUS, and one child died. The median age of case-patients was 10 years (range: 1-58 years). A case-control study of the first 25 case-patients identified and age- and sex-matched community controls implicated eating at a chain A restaurant in San Diego (matched OR=13; 95% confidence interval CI=1.7-99). A study comparing case-patients who ate at chain A restaurants with well meal companions implicated regular- sized hamburger patties (matched OR=undefined; lower confidence limit=1.3). Chain B was not statistically associated with illness. Nevada On January 22, after receiving a report of a child with HUS who had eaten at a local chain A restaurant, the Clark County (Las Vegas) Health District issued a press release requesting that persons with recent bloody diarrhea contact the health department. A case was defined as postdiarrheal HUS, bloody diarrhea that was culture negative or not cultured, or any diarrheal illness with a stool culture yielding the Washington strain of E. coli O157:H7, with onset from December 1, 1992, through February 7, 1993. Because local laboratories were not using sorbitol MacConkey (SMAC) medium to screen stools for E. coli O157:H7, this organism was not identified in any patient. After SMAC medium was distributed, the outbreak strain was detected in the stool of one patient 38 days after illness onset. Of 58 persons whose illnesses met the case definition (Figure 2C), nine were hospitalized; three developed HUS. The median age was 30.5 years (range: 0-83 years). Analysis of the first 21 patients identified and age- and sex- matched community controls implicated eating at a chain A restaurant during the week preceding illness onset (matched OR=undefined; lower confidence limit=4.9). A case-control study using well meal companions of case-patients also implicated eating hamburgers at chain A (matched OR=6.0; 95% CI=0.7- 49.8). Other Investigation Findings During the outbreak, chain A restaurants in Washington linked with cases primarily were serving regular-sized hamburger patties produced on November 19, 1992; some of the same meat was used in "jumbo" patties produced on November 20, 1992. The outbreak strain of E. coli O157:H7 was isolated from 11 lots of patties produced on those two dates; these lots had been distributed to restaurants in all states where illness occurred. Approximately 272,672 (20%) of the implicated patties were recovered by the recall. A meat traceback by a CDC team identified five slaughter plants in the United States and one in Canada as the likely sources of carcasses used in the HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 6 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 contaminated lots of meat and identified potential control points for reducing the likelihood of contamination. The animals slaughtered in domestic slaughter plants were traced to farms and auctions in six western states. No one slaughter plant or farm was identified as the source. Further investigation of cases related to secondary transmission in families and child day care settings is ongoing. Reported by: M Davis, DVM, C Osaki, MSPH, Seattle-King County Dept of Public Health; D Gordon, MS, MW Hinds, MD, Snohomish Health District, Everett; K Mottram, C Winegar, MPH, Tacoma-Pierce County Health Dept; ED Avner, MD, PI Tarr, MD, Dept of Pediatrics, D Jardine, MD, Depts of Anesthesiology and Pediatrics, Univ of Washington School of Medicine and Children's Hospital and Medical Center, Seattle; M Goldoft, MD, B Bartleson, MPH; J Lewis, JM Kobayashi, MD, State Epidemiologist, Washington Dept of Health. G Billman, MD, J Bradley, MD, Children's Hospital, San Diego; S Hunt, P Tanner, RES, M Ginsberg, MD, San Diego County Dept of Health Svcs; L Barrett, DVM, SB Werner, MD, GW Rutherford, III, MD, State Epidemiologist, California Dept of Health Svcs. RW Jue, Central District Health Dept, Boise; H Root, Southwest District Health Dept, Caldwell; D Brothers, MA, RL Chehey, MS, RH Hudson, PhD, Div of Health, Idaho State Public Health Laboratory, FR Dixon, MD, State Epidemiologist, Div of Health, Idaho Dept of Health and Welfare. DJ Maxson, Environmental Epidemiology Program, L Empey, PA, O Ravenholt, MD, VH Ueckart, DVM, Clark County Health District, Las Vegas; A DiSalvo, MD, Nevada State Public Health Laboratory; DS Kwalick, MD, R Salcido, MPH, D Brus, DVM, State Epidemiologist, Div of Health, Nevada State Dept of Human Resources. Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, Food and Drug Administration. Food Safety Inspection Svc, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Svc, US Dept of Agriculture. Div of Field Epidemiology, Epidemiology Program Office; Enteric Diseases Br, Div of Bacterial and Mycotic Diseases, National Center for Infectious Diseases, CDC. Editorial Note: E. coli O157:H7 is a pathogenic gram-negative bacterium first identified as a cause of illness in 1982 during an outbreak of severe bloody diarrhea traced to contaminated hamburgers (2). This pathogen has since emerged as an important cause of both bloody diarrhea and HUS, the most common cause of acute renal failure in children. Outbreak investigations have linked most cases with the consumption of undercooked ground beef, although other food vehicles, including roast beef, raw milk, and apple cider, also have been implicated (3). Preliminary data from a CDC 2-year, nationwide, multicenter study revealed that when stools were routinely cultured for E. coli O157:H7 that organism was isolated more frequently than Shigella in four of 10 participating hospitals and was isolated from 7.8% of all bloody stools, a higher rate than for any other pathogen. Infection with E. coli O157:H7 often is not recognized because most clinical laboratories do not routinely culture stools for this organism on HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 7 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 SMAC medium, and many clinicians are unaware of the spectrum of illnesses associated with infection (4). The usual clinical manifestations are diarrhea (often bloody) and abdominal cramps; fever is infrequent. Younger age groups and the elderly are at highest risk for clinical manifestations and complications. Illness usually resolves after 6-8 days, but 2%-7% of patients develop HUS, which is characterized by hemolytic anemia, thrombocytopenia, renal failure, and a death rate of 3%-5%. This report illustrates the difficulties in recognizing community outbreaks of E. coli O157:H7 in the absence of routine surveillance. Despite the magnitude of this outbreak, the problem may not have been recognized in three states if the epidemiologic link had not been established in Washington (1). Clinical laboratories should routinely culture stool specimens from persons with bloody diarrhea or HUS for E. coli O157:H7 using SMAC agar (5). When infections with E. coli O157:H7 are identified, they should be reported to local health departments for further evaluation and, if necessary, public health action to prevent further cases. E. coli O157:H7 lives in the intestines of healthy cattle, and can contaminate meat during slaughter. CDC is collaborating with the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Food Safety Inspection Service to identify critical control points in processing as a component of a program to reduce the likelihood of pathogens such as E. coli O157:H7 entering the meat supply. Because slaughtering practices can result in contamination of raw meat with pathogens, and because the process of grinding beef may transfer pathogens from the surface of the meat to the interior, ground beef is likely to be internally contaminated. The optimal food protection practice is to cook ground beef thoroughly until the interior is no longer pink, and the juices are clear. In this outbreak, undercooking of hamburger patties likely played an important role. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has issued interim recommendations to increase the internal temperature for cooked hamburgers to 155 F (86.1 C) (FDA, personal communication, 1993). Regulatory actions stimulated by the outbreak described in this report and the recovery of thousands of contaminated patties before they could be consumed emphasize the value of rapid public health investigations of outbreaks. The public health impact and increasing frequency of isolation of this pathogen underscore the need for improved surveillance for infections caused by E. coli O157:H7 and for HUS to better define the epidemiology of E. coli O157:H7. References 1. CDC. Preliminary report: foodborne outbreak of Escherichia coli O157:H7 infections from hamburgers --western United States, 1993. MMWR 1993;42:85-6. 2. Riley LW, Remis RS, Helgerson SD, et al. Hemorrhagic colitis associated with a rare Escherichia coli serotype. N Engl J Med 1983;308:681-5. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 8 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 3. Griffin PM, Tauxe RV. The epidemiology of infections caused by Escherichia coli O157:H7, other enterohemorrhagic E. coli, and the associated hemolytic uremic syndrome. Epidemiol Rev 1991;13:60-98. 4. Griffin PM, Ostroff SM, Tauxe RV, et al. Illnesses associated with Escherichia coli O157:H7 infections: a broad clinical spectrum. Ann Intern Med 1988;109:705-12. 5. March SB, Ratnam S. Latex agglutination test HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 9 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 Use of Smokeless Tobacco Among Adults -- United States, 1991 ======================================================= SOURCE: MMWR 42(14) DATE: Apr 16, 1993 Consumption of moist snuff and other smokeless tobacco products in the United States almost tripled from 1972 through 1991 (1). Long-term use of smokeless tobacco is associated with nicotine addiction and increased risk of oral cancer (2) -- the incidence of which could increase if young persons who currently use smokeless tobacco continue to use these products frequently (1). To monitor trends in the prevalence of use of smokeless tobacco products, CDC's 1991 National Health Interview Survey-Health Promotion and Disease Prevention supplement (NHIS-HPDP) collected information on snuff and chewing tobacco use and smoking from a representative sample of the U.S. civilian, noninstitutionalized population aged greater than or equal to 18 years. This report summarizes findings from this survey. The 1991 NHIS-HPDP supplement asked "Have you used snuff at least 20 times in your entire life?" and "Do you use snuff now?" Similar questions were asked about chewing tobacco use and cigarette smoking. Current users of smokeless tobacco were defined as those who reported snuff or chewing tobacco use at least 20 times and who reported using snuff or chewing tobacco at the time of the interview; former users were defined as those who reported having used snuff or chewing tobacco at least 20 times and not using either at the time of the interview. Ever users of smokeless tobacco included current and former users. Current smokers were defined as those who reported smoking at least 100 cigarettes and who were currently smoking and former smokers as those who reported having smoked at least 100 cigarettes and who were not smoking now. Ever smokers included current and former smokers. Data on smokeless tobacco use were available for 43,732 persons aged greater than or equal to 18 years and were adjusted for nonresponse and weighted to provide national estimates. Confidence intervals (CIs) were calculated by using standard errors generated by the Software for Survey Data Analysis (SUDAAN) (3). In 1991, an estimated 5.3 million (2.9%) U.S. adults were current users of smokeless tobacco, including 4.8 million (5.6%) men and 533,000 (0.6%) women. For all categories of comparison, the prevalence of smokeless tobacco use was substantially higher among men. For men, the prevalence of use was highest among those aged 18-24 years (Table 1); for women, the prevalence was highest among those aged greater than or equal to 75 years. The prevalence of smokeless tobacco use among men was highest among American Indians/Alaskan Natives and whites; the prevalence among women was highest among American Indians/Alaskan Natives and blacks. Among both men and women, prevalence of smokeless tobacco use declined with increasing education. Prevalence was substantially higher among residents of the southern United States and in rural areas. Although the prevalence of smokeless tobacco use was higher among HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 10 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 men and women below the poverty level, * this difference was significant only for women (p less than 0.05) (Table 1). Among men, the prevalence of current use of snuff was highest among those aged 18-44 years but varied considerably by age; the prevalence of use of chewing tobacco was more evenly distributed by age group (Table 2). Although women rarely used smokeless tobacco, the prevalence of snuff use was highest among those aged greater than or equal to 75 years. An estimated 7.9 million (4.4% 95% CI=4.1-4.6) adults reported being former smokeless tobacco users. Among ever users, the proportion who were former smokeless tobacco users was 59.9% (95% CI=57.7-62.1). Among persons aged 18-24 years, the proportion of former users was lower among snuff users (56.2% 95% CI=49.4-63.0) than among chewing tobacco users (70.4% 95% CI=64.2-76.6). Among persons aged 45-64 years, the proportion of former users was similar for snuff (68.9% 95% CI=63.1-74.7) and chewing tobacco (73.5% 95% CI=68.9-78.1). Among current users of smokeless tobacco, 22.9% (95% CI=19.9-26.0) currently smoked, 33.3% (95% CI=30.0-36.5) formerly smoked, and 43.8% (95% CI=39.9-47.7) never smoked. In comparison, among current smokers, 2.6% (95% CI=2.3-3.0) were current users of smokeless tobacco. Daily use of smokeless tobacco was more common among snuff users (67.3% 95% CI=63.2-71.4) than among chewing tobacco users (45.1% 95% CI=40.6- 49.6). Reported by: Office on Smoking and Health, National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion; Div of Health Interview Statistics, National Center for Health Statistics, CDC. Editorial Note: The findings in this report indicate that the use of smokeless tobacco was highest among young males. Adolescent and young adult males, in particular, are the target of marketing strategies by tobacco companies that link smokeless tobacco with athletic performance and virility. Use of oral snuff has risen markedly among professional baseball players, encouraging this behavior among adolescent and young adult males and increasing their risk for nicotine addiction, oral cancer, and other mouth disorders (4). Differences in the prevalence of smokeless tobacco use among racial/ethnic groups may be influenced by differences in educational levels and socioeconomic status as well as social and cultural phenomena that require further explanation. For example, targeted marketing practices may play a role in maintaining or increasing prevalence among some groups, and affecting the differential initiation of smokeless tobacco use by young persons (5,6). In this report, one concern is that nearly one fourth of current smokeless tobacco users also smoke cigarettes. In the 1991 NHIS-HPDP, the prevalence of cigarette smoking was higher among former smokeless tobacco users than among current and never smokeless tobacco users. In a previous study among college students, 18% of current smokeless tobacco users smoked HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 11 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 occasionally (7). In addition, approximately 7% of adults who formerly smoked reported substituting other tobacco products for cigarettes in an effort to stop smoking (8). Health-care providers should recognize the potential health implications of concurrent smokeless tobacco and cigarette use. The national health objectives for the year 2000 have established special population target groups for the reduction of the prevalence of smokeless tobacco use, including males aged 12-24 years (to no more than 4% by the year 2000 objective 3.9) and American Indian/Alaskan Native youth (to no more than 10% by the year 2000 objective 3.9a) (9). Strategies to lower the prevalence of smokeless tobacco use include continued monitoring of smokeless tobacco use, integrating smoking and smokeless tobacco-control efforts, enforcing laws that restrict minors' access to tobacco, making excise taxes commensurate with those on cigarettes, encouraging health-care providers to routinely provide cessation advice and follow-up, providing school-based prevention and cessation interventions, and adopting policies that prohibit tobacco use on school property and at school-sponsored events (5). References 1. Office of Evaluations and Inspections. Spit tobacco and youth. Washington, DC: US Department of Health and Human Services, Office of the Inspector General, 1992; DHHS publication no. (OEI-06)92-00500. 2. National Institutes of Health. The health consequences of using smokeless tobacco: a report of the Advisory Committee to the Surgeon General. Bethesda, Maryland: US Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, 1986; DHHS publication no. (NIH)86-2874. 3. Shah BV. Software for Survey Data Analysis (SUDAAN) version 5.30 Software documentation. Research Triangle Park, North Carolina: Research Triangle Institute, 1989. 4. Connolly GN, Orleans CT, Blum A. Snuffing tobacco out of sport. Am J Public Health 1992;82:351-3. 5. National Cancer Institute. Smokeless tobacco or health: an international perspective. Bethesda, Maryland: US Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, National Institutes of Health, 1992; DHHS publication no. (NIH)92-3461. 6. Foreyt JP, Jackson AS, Squires WG, Hartung GH, Murray TD, Gotto AM. Psychological profile of college students who use smokeless tobacco. Addict Behav 1993;18:107-16. 7. Glover ED, Laflin M, Edwards SW. Age of initiation and switching patterns HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 12 Volume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993 between smokeless tobacco and cigarettes among college students in the United States. Am J Public Health 1989;79:207-8. 8. CDC. Tobacco use in 1986: methods and tabulations from Adult Use of Tobacco Survey. Rockville, Maryland: US Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, CDC, 1990; DHHS publication no. (OM)90-2004. 9. Public Health Service. Healthy people 2000: national health promotion and disease prevention objectives. Washington, DC: US Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, 1991; DHHS publication no. (PHS)91- 50213. --------- end of part 1 ------------

sci.med

Dear Rob, Sometimes I do come across condesending, and I am sorry I come across that way at times. Thank you for the reproach, I really do appreciate it. I'll try to get better. Rob, at the same time, I have also learned that some people respond to the gentle approach while others respond only at a harsh rebuke. Brian K., so far, only responds to the latter. And I am glad he responds at all. In both cases of approach, my intention is to be loving. I am making no excuse for myself if I am coming across condesending. I apologize for that. Rob, sometimes Brian K. comes across as honest. I know this. But Brian K. vasillates back and forth. One post looks honest; the next is an excuse. Now he wants me to explain the universe in 50 words or less. I think Brian Kendig is really trying but he is too comfortable with his set of excuses. I just want Brian K. to be honest with himself. If he really wants to know, he will ask questions and stop asserting irrelevant excuses which have nothing to do with my God. I wish Brian would read the Bible for himself and come to his own decisions without being sidetracked with the temptation to mock God. From my perspective Rob, when I look at Brian Kendig, I see a man standing out in the middle of a highway. Off into the distance I see a Mack truck heading right for him, but Brian K. is faced away from the oncoming truck. He doesn't see it. Here's is how I see the dialog: Me: "Brian K, please step aside before you get run over." BK: "There is no truck." Me: "Turn around at look." BK: "No." Me: "Look! You will be healthier if you do take a look at the oncoming truck." BK: "No. Explain to me why trucks exist." Me: "Turn around or you will run over." BK: "No. I won't because I like hiking and tomorrow is Tuesday." Me: "You blind fool! Why do you choose ignorance? You have nothing to lose if you look. But if do not look, you will certainly lose your life." I do not want to see you squashed all over the road. BK: "It is my life to lose. I rather not look. Besides, a truck running over me will not harm me." And by the way, I really have an open mind." So is my motivation to belittle Brian, or to love Brian the best I know how? I do not wish to single Brian Kendig out. Because millions if not billions of people fall into the same category. Perhaps all people fall have fallen into this category at one time in their lives. I have. I can now see the truck behind Brian. My hope is that Brian will look and will see the ramifications of the truck coming towards him. My hope is that Brian will want to step out of the way. My fear, though, is that Brian will instead choose to glue himself to the middle of the highway, where he will certainly get run over. But if he so chooses, he so chooses, and there is nothing I can do beyond that to change his mind. For it is his choice. But at this very moment, Brian hasn't gotten even that far. He is still at the point where he does not want to look. Sure he moves his eyeball to appease me, but his head will not turn around to see the entire picture. So far he is satisfied with his glimpse of the mountains off in the distance.

talk.religion.misc

Are there any graphics cards for the SE/30 that also have, say, an 040 accelerator? There seem to be plenty of accelerator/graphics cards for the _SE_, but none (that I've seen) for the SE/30. Thanks

comp.sys.mac.hardware

I wondered the same thing. When he first mentioned it, I thought he was just making a mistake but then he said it over and over. And then in the examples from other years, he gave stats for players from both leagues even when only one league expanded. So (since stats *NEVER* lie :-) ), I guess there is an effect on both leagues because the expansion draft takes talent from both leagues equally making every team in both leagues dilute their major league talent by calling up players that, normally, they would not have had there not been expansion.

rec.sport.baseball

Hi folks! Recently saw one post about KREME being a *bad idea*, but that was only one man's opinion.

rec.motorcycles

Yea, thanks to lots of good information in this newsgroup, I was prepared for lots of details (even shipping time ... got my C610 8/230/CD in 5 weeks). I guess my biggest disappointment is the lack of detail in the written specs and documentation. The case load spec is an example -- the setup section says Apple 14" and 16" monitors can go on top, but 21" and other big ones can't. Why couldn't they publish a maximum load? Now if I can figure out if there's any hope using the "partition" button on the hard disk setup utility (do I dare just try it and see what happens?), then maybe I can divide up the wealth among the family members a bit more securly. The "getting more information" section of the manual suggested trying other avenues before calling Apple, but didn't mention the net.

comp.sys.mac.hardware

Hey!? What happened to the solar sail race that was supposed to be for Columbus+500?

sci.space

Oh contrer mon captitan! There is a way. Certainly it is not by human reason. Certainly it is not by human experience. (and yet it is both!) To paraphrase Sartre, the particular is absurd unless it has an infinite reference point. It is only because of God's own revelation that we can be absolute about a thing. Your logic comes to fruition in relativism. Ah, now it is clear. Ludwig was a desciple of Russell. Ludwig's fame is often explained by the fact that he spawned not one but two significant movements in contemporary philosophy. Both revolve around Tractatus Logico-Philosphicus ('21) and Philosophical Investigation ('53). Many of Witt's comments and implicit conclusions suggest ways of going beyond the explicit critique of language he offers. According to some of the implicit suggestions of Witt's thought, ordinary language is an invaluable resource, offering a necessary framework for the conduct of daily life. However, though its formal features remain the same, its content does not and it is always capable of being transcended as our experience changes and our understanding is deepened, giving us a clearer picture of what we are and what we wish to say. On Witt's own account, there is a dynamic fluidity of language. It is for this reason that any critique of language must move from talking about the limits of language to talking about its boundaries, where a boundary is understood not as a wall but a threshold. vonWrights's comment that Witt's "sentences have a content that often lies deep beneath the surface of language." On the surface, Witt talks of the insuperable position of ordinary language and the necessity of bringing ourselves to accept it without question. At the same time, we are faced with Witt's own creative uses of language and his concern for bringing about changes in our traditional modes of understanding. Philosophy, then, through more perspicacious speech, seeks to effect this unity rather than assuming that it is already functioning. Yes? The most brilliant of scientists are unable to offer a foundation for human speech so long as they reject Christianity! In his Tractatus we have the well nigh perfect exhibition of the nature of the impasse of the scientific ideal of exhaustive logical analysis of Reality by man. Perfect language does not exist for fallen man, therefore we must get on about our buisness of relating Truth via ordinary language. This is why John's Gospel is so dear to most Christians. It is so simple in it conveyance of the revealation of God, yet so full of unlieing depth of understanding. He viewed Christ from the OT concept of "as a man thinketh, so he is." John looked at the outward as only an indicator of what was inside, that is the consciousness of Christ. And so must we. Words are only vehicals of truth. He is truth. The scriptures are plain in their expounding that there is a Truth and that it is knowable. THere are absolutes, and they too are knowable. However, they are only knowable when He reveals them to the individual. There is, and we shouldn't shy from this, a mysticism to Christianity. Paul in ROm 8 says there are 3 men in the world. There is the one who does not have the Spirit and therefore can not know the things of the Spirit (the Spirit of Truth) and there is the one who has the Spirit and has the capacity to know of the Truth, but there is the third. THe one who not only has the Spirit, but that the Spirit has him! Who can know the deep things of God and reveal them to us other than the Spirit. And it is only the deep things of GOd that are absolute and true. There is such a thing as true truth and it is real, it can be experienced and it is verifiable. I disagree with Dr Nancy's Sweetie's conclusion because if it is taken to fruition it leads to relativism which leads to dispair. "I would know the words which He would answer me, and understand what He would say unto me." Job 23ff --Rex

soc.religion.christian

In order of your questions, I oppose it, I oppose it, I oppose it and (Huh? Wha? Where did _that_ topic come from and what's it got to do with the discussion at hand? :-) When I was discussing the concept of different criminal laws for crimes against different classes of people (and yes, I do consider laws which allow/mandate enhanced penalties following conviction based upon the convict's attitudes towards the class membership of the victim to fit into that category), the category of classes I had in mind was that of the standard civil rights discussion -- classes based upon race, gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Having you ask about classes based upon one's _profession_ rather than one's personal characteristics caught me off guard, and I had to think out the question from scratch. What I finally decided was that the law should not recognize such classes because to do so would be to formally and officially declare some people to be of more worth than others, and that would be anathema to the underlying American concept of equal treatment under the law. Last year, when a federal crime bill was under consideration which would have expanded the federal death penalty to an additional fifty-plus crimes, including the murder of various federal officers hitherto not protected by that "aura of deterrence," critics pointed out the absurdity of having laws which made the death penalty available for the murder of a federal postal inspector but not for ther murder of a civilian teacher, when the latter [arguably] provided a much more valueable service and therefore would be the greater loss to society. This was an emotionally compelling argument, but even the proponents of that viewpoint appeared to tacitly assume that the state should judge some lives as being more valuable than others on the basis of their "contribution to society." I view that doctrine as being both (a) personally repugnant and (b) repugnant to the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment. Accordingly, I believe that there should be no laws which give any profession-based class of people special protection (via the mechanism of supplying stronger statutory deterrence of crimes against members of that class), not even police officers, federal officers or high-ranking members of the Executive Branch of the federal government.

talk.politics.misc

I have never been to Wisconsin, though I have been to neighbor Minnesota. Being a child of the Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) I found that there were few states in the provences that stood out in this youngster's mind: California, Texas, and Florida to name the most obvious three. However, both Minnesota and Wisconsin stuck out, solely on the basis of their politics. Both have always translated to extremely liberal and progressive states. And my recent trip to Minnestoa last summer served to support that state's reputation. My guess is that Wisconsin is probably the same. At least that was the impression the people of Minnesota left with me about their neighbors. The only question in my head about Wisconsin, though, is whether or not there is a cause-effect relationship between cheese and serial killers :)

alt.atheism

Their Hiten engineering-test mission spent a while in a highly eccentric Earth orbit doing lunar flybys, and then was inserted into lunar orbit using some very tricky gravity-assist-like maneuvering. This meant that it would crash on the Moon eventually, since there is no such thing as a stable lunar orbit (as far as anyone knows), and I believe I recall hearing recently that it was about to happen.

sci.space

We had those f*****g photo-radar things here in Sweden a while ago. There was a lot of fuzz about them, and a lot of sabotage too (a spray-can with touch-up paint can do a lot of good...). Eventually they had to drop the idea as there were a lot of court-cases where the owner of the car could prove he didn't drive it at the time of speeding. I especially recall a case where it eventually proved to be a car-thief that had stolen a car and made false plates. He, ofcourse, chose a license number of a identical car, so the photo seemed correct... In conclosion: Photo-radar sucks, every way you look at it!

rec.autos

massacre. Answer: a(1-1/2-1/4-1/11)=280 -> a = 1760

I have a Radius Precision Color 24x video card for the Mac that fits in a NuBus slot. The card has 3 Mb of VRAM on it, which means that 24-bit color is possible on the card! The card supports just about any monitor scan rate you can think of (I used it at 640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768, but it can go higher). You can switch resolutions and depth on the fly with a software control panel. This is the ACCELERATED version of the card, which means all QuickDraw calls are not executed by the CPU but taken over by the video card, freeing up the mac processor for other tasks. The cheapest I could find this card for when I called around last night was $1738 at Mac's Place. I will sell it for $1250 + shipping. It is just over a year old and never been any problem. It comes with software and the original manuals. Hurry!

comp.sys.mac.hardware

I don't personally, but Clay just posted it. Yes, we do. Unfortunately, it shows that Lopez wasn't as good an example as Nieves would have been, since his last year numbers were out of line with the previous years (which I didn't have access to). The point remains, though; knowing a guy's minor league history is as good as knowing his major league history, if you know how to read it. The MLE is not a *projection*, it's an *equivalence*. It's a "this is how well he hit *last* year, in major league terms" rating. So, in essence, he has *already* reached it. I would guess (Bob? Clay?) that essentially half of all players surpass their previous MLEs in their rookie seasons. Maybe more than half, since all of these players are young and improving. Did they? Offerman may have been the difference between 4th or 5th place and last place, but no more. Sure; they didn't have anyone better. I suppose they might have gutted the farm system to acquire Jay Bell or Spike Owen or somebody if they were really in contention. If you'd read what I wrote, you'd be less amazed. Nowhere do I claim to put any credence in spring training. Quite the contrary; I said that Lopez hadn't done anything that even the bozos who *do* put credence in spring training could interpret as "failure". Just because I think spring training numbers are meaningless doesn't mean that Bobby Cox does; it's just a case of ruling out one possible explanation for sending Lopez down. Keith Mitchell did very very well at AA, AAA, and the majors over a season, then did very, very poorly for a year in AAA.

rec.sport.baseball

If you're thinking of reactive polymers they're making ESD safe contauiners out of it. As far as being conductive goes anything with a resistance less than 10 to the fouthrth power ohms per cubic measure is classed as conductive per MIL-STD-1686 for ESD protection. My $0.02 ($0.016 US).

sci.electronics

The oclock widget was written using the SHAPE extension. You can do the same in your widgets. Few current widgets support SHAPE, so you'll have to subclass them to add that functionality.

comp.windows.x

Help me make money for a new modem $180.00 takes it ALL ***** SHIPPING NOT INCLUDED IN PRICE ***** * All original documentation & disks are include. Some software unregistered, others will have letter for transfer of ownership. * Will sell software seperately, purchase must be greater than $30.00. * Purchases over $60.00 get choice of two (2) software selections with "*" footnote W - Windows 3.x version D - DOS version R - Registered (letter of transfer) U - Unregistered * - Special offer MS Windows 3.0 MS Windows 3.0 Resource Kit (bound ed.). . . . . . . . . . $ 15.00 WR Norton Desktop for Windows 1.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 15.00 WR MS Excel 4.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 70.00 WR Gateway 2000 version (all docs & disks MS) This is the real thing, it only shipped with my computer!! MicroCourier 1.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 15.00 WU Communucations software MS Entertainment Pack I. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 10.00*WR MicroProse's Gunship 2000 (VGA only). . . . . . . . . . . .$ 20.00 DU Links 386-PRO. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 25.00 DR Includes Bountiful Golf Course Wing Commander II (Vengeance of the Kilrathi!). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 20.00 DR F-15 Strike Eagle II. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 10.00*DR Risk (EGA). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 8.00*DU EasyFlow 6.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 35.00 DU Brand new - Never used Quicken 4.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 15.00 DR Franklin Language Master. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 10.00*DR Not a spell checker, but a dictionary TSR that pops up for any DOS app. Each word has direct link to the thesaurus IBM DOS 4.00. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 10.00*DR TOTAL. . . . . $313.00 - DISCOUNT. . . .$133.00 ------- YOUR COST. . . $180.00 Call Michael @ (804) 486-7018 any day between 10a & 10p est. or leave E-mail. Thanks!

misc.forsale

Note: These trial updates are summarized from reports in the _Idaho Statesman_ and the local NBC affiliate television station, KTVB Channel 7. Randy Weaver/Kevin Harris trial update: Day 4. Friday, April 16, 1993 was the fourth day of the trial. Synopsis: Defense attorney Gerry Spence cross-examined agent Cooper under repeated objections from prosecutor Ronald Howen. Spence moved for a mistrial but was denied. The day was marked by a caustic cross-examination of Deputy Marshal Larry Cooper by defense attorney Gerry Spence. Although Spence has not explicitly stated so, one angle of his stategy must involve destroying the credibility of agent Cooper. Cooper is the government's only eyewitness to the death of agent Degan. Spence attacked Cooper's credibility by pointing out discrepancies between Cooper's statements last September and those made in court. Cooper conceded that, "You have all these things compressed into a few seconds...It's difficult to remember what went on first." Cooper acknowledged that he carried a "9mm Colt Commando submachine gun with a silenced barrel." [I thought a Colt Commando was a revolver!] Cooper continued by stating that the federal agents had no specific plans to use the weapon when they started to kill Weaver's dog. When Spence asked how seven cartridges could be fired by Degan's M-16 rifle when Degan was apparently dead, Cooper could not say for sure that Degan did not return fire before going down. Spence continued by asking with how many agents (and to what extent) had Cooper discussed last August's events, Cooper responded, "If you're implying that we got our story together, you're wrong, counselor." Spence continued to advance the defense's version of the events: Namely, that a marshal had started the shooting by killing the Weaver's dog. Cooper disagreed. Assistant U.S. Attorney Ronald Howen repeatedly objected to Spence's virulent cross-examination of agent Cooper, arguing that the questions were repetitive and Spence was wasting time. Howen also complained that Spence was improperly using a cross-examination to advance the defense's version of the events. U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge sustained many of the objections; however, both lawyers persisted until Judge Lodge had the jury leave the room and proceded to admonish both attorneys. "I'm not going to play games with either counsel. This has been a personality problem from day 1, so start acting like professionals." Spence told the judge that, "When all the evidence is in, we'll see that ... his [agent Larry Cooper] testimony is not credible, that he was panicked and cannot remember the sequence of events." Spence continued, "We're going to find...that there is a very unlikely similarity - almost as if it had come out of a cookie cutter - between the testimony of Mr. Cooper and the other witnesses." Spence then moved for a mistrial on the grounds that Howen's repeated objections would prevent a fair trial, "We can't have a fair trial if the jury believes I'm some sort of charlatan, if the jury believes I'm bending the rules or engaging in some delaying tactic or that I'm violating court orders." Judge Lodge called the notion that his repeated sustainings of Howen's objections had somehow prejudiced the jury was "preposterous" and denied the motion for a mistrial. Lodge did tell Howen to restrict his comments when objecting. The trial resumed with the prosecution calling FBI Special Agent Greg Rampton. The prosecution's purpose was simply to introduce five weapons found in the cabin as evidence: However, the defense seized on the opportunity to further address Cooper's credibility. Defense attorney Ellison Matthews (Harris' other attorney) questioned Rampton about the dog. Rampton stated that there were no specific plans to kill the Weaver's dog without being detected. Matthews then had Rampton read a Septtember 15, 1992 transcript in which Rampton had said that Cooper had said that the purpose of the silenced weapon was to kill the dog without being detected, if the dog chased them. Rampton then acknowledged that he believed that Cooper had said that, but he could not remember when. He then stated that, "I did not conduct the primary interview with Deputy Cooper, but I have had conversations with him since the interview was conducted."

talk.politics.guns

Why don't you look again at Motor Trend's, slalom times, they are 67.9, right along with the Integra, and the car does that with small 14 inch tires that are all -weather XGTV4, not to mention that the Integra rides alot better than a Beretta. Your acceleartion times also vary, magazine to magazine Road & Track and Car& Driver have the GS-R at 6.8 to 8.0 for Road and Track. Also Quarter mile times vary from 15.4 to 16.1 You can't tell exactly by the numbers. Furthermore, the Integra will definately outrun the Beretta on the high end. Car & Driver and Road & track have the GS-R doing 136 to 141 mph, and it gets there fast. ***You always believe those exact numbers, why don't you drive a GS-R, and see for your self, while the GS-R has a low 117 torqye, its high gearing over a 8000 rpm make up for the difference (still wouldn't call it a torque moster though!) Quad 4 reliable, yeah, what's your definition of reliable- if that's reliable, then its safe to say that integra engines in general are near perfect (not to mention, a hell of alot smoother and quieter - balance shafts.The Acura has the engine wins the reliablity contest hands down. You can rev that car all day, everyday, and you'll never blow a hose, or crack the block, or anything else. (I speak from expierence!) I'm not saying the Quad 4 is a bad engine, but don't highlight reliability when you comparing it to a Acura Engine. AND while the Integra costs alot more, it is a better investment since it will hold its value considerably much better. And does a nice job at being a sporty car and practical at the same time.

rec.autos

Might the problem not be with the video monitor instead? Many of our monitors, as they age, develop shadows on white and bright colors.

comp.os.ms-windows.misc

I need some advice on having someone ride pillion with me on my 750 Ninja. This will be the the first time I've taken anyone for an extended ride (read: farther than around the block :-). We'll be riding some twisty, fairly bumpy roads (the Mines Road-Mt.Hamilton Loop for you SF Bay Areans). I'd say this is a very bad idea - you should start out with something much mellower so that neither one of you get in over your head. That particular road requires full concentration - not the sort of thing you want to take a passenger on for the first time. Once you both decide that you like riding together, and want to do something longer and more challenging, *then* go for a hard core road like Mines-Mt. Hamilton. In any case, it's *your* (moral) responsibility to make sure that she has proper gear that fits - especially if you're going sport riding.

rec.motorcycles

Morphine or demerol is about the only effective way of stopping pain that severe. Obviously, she'll need a prescription to get such drugs. Can't she go to the county hospital or something? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."

sci.med

John Berryhill, Ph.D. writes umm, please don't lump us all together. It's those blatant, fundamentalist pickers that give the rest of us a bad name. Some of us try very hard to be discreet and stay alert.

talk.religion.misc

Help!! I need code/package/whatever to take 3-D data and turn it into a wireframe surface with hidden lines removed. I'm using a DOS machine, and the code can be in ANSI C or C++, ANSI Fortran or Basic. The data I'm using forms a rectangular grid. Please post your replies to the net so that others may benefit. IMHO, this is a general interest question. Thank you!!!!!!

comp.graphics

So what does that have to do with RBI's? The team with the most RBI's doesn't necessarily win the game. Yes, runs are the most important statistice -- for a *team*. (So why does every newspaper rank team offense by batting average?) But for an individual player, runs and RBIs are context-dependent, and tell us very little about the player himself, and more about his teammates and position in the batting order.

rec.sport.baseball

Concerning the proposed newsgroup split, I personally am not in favor of doing this. I learn an awful lot about all aspects of graphics by reading this group, from code to hardware to algorithms. I just think making 5 different groups out of this is a wate, and will only result in a few posts a week per group. I kind of like the convenience of having one big forum for discussing all aspects of graphics. Anyone else feel this way? Just curious.

comp.graphics

Hi I have an Orchid Fahrenheit VLB with 2MB of DRAM. It is an S3 86c805 based card. I had a problem for a while after installing my second meg of DRAM for the video, and thanks to Orchid, I got a fix from their tech support (it was jumper settings not given in the ordinary manual. I assume it would come with memory ordered from them, so I guess I should be glad they didn't just say "Buy the memory from us" or something like that.) The one thing that I was puzzled by was why there was not a 1024x768x32k color mode on the thing, either in full screen or enlarged desktop mode. My ATI Ultra Plus can handle that, given 2MB of memory. All the 2MB buys you on the Fahrenheit is 1280x1024x256. Just ONE more mode. GEEZ. Had I known, I wouldn't have bothered. I asked them why, and all I got was "Your point is well taken, but Orchid's software developers are busy with other projects." So, to get to the point, finally, ARE there any s3 86c805 drivers out there that can handle high res hicolor modes? I'd love to get another card, but perhaps it will have to wait until the next generation of cards comes out, since this card came bundled with my system and it's not so easy to exchange these things unless they're broken. If you want these modes, steer away from Orchids s3 86c805 cards (ie. VLB or VA/VLB), at least until their developers are "less busy". If the magazines are to believed, I've only seen one s3 86c805 product thus far which can handle 1024x768x32k color (Genoa?), although evenn that might be a misprint. Please, if there are generic or semi-generic drivers out there, let me know where I can get them. 800x600x32k is OK, but I coulda gotten that with my ATI VGA Wonder XL.

comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware

too bad he doesn't bring the ability to hit, pitch, field or run.

rec.sport.baseball

Excerpts from netnews.comp.windows.x: 19-Apr-93 Monthly Question about XCop.. Buzz Moschetti@bear.com (1055) Hmmm.... Clearly? Depends on your programming model. It is not at all forbidden to draw outside the context of an expose event. Certainly any internal data structures should be maintained such that the visual appearance would be maintained properly whenever an expose event happens to be generated. This doesn't preclude drawing immediately after updating the datastructures though...

comp.windows.x

This is the final public update to my dragon magazine auction. If there are no new bids then the current bids stand (like that's gonna happen. :) ). After this, any updates will be by E-mail *ONLY*. The entire auction will end as soon as the bids stop coming in. So if you want to get in on this, be sure to bid now. All bids must be made in *AT LEAST* 25 cent increments. Buyer will pay shipping. (Unless you have any particular fancy, it will be US mail 4th class special, with lots of padding). All dragons are bagged. The condition of them vary quite a bit, so I've come up with my own condition system. Some dragons may be missing items like the inserts. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. * Condition ratings - Usually this is just an evaluation of the cover, as most of the material inside is in great shape. Excellent - IE-"As you find them in the store" Very Good - Still in great condition, but can tell it's been boughten Good - On down the line Very Fair/fair - indicates lots of use (But still "decent") Poor - Indicates the material inside may be damaged (usually by scissors). A * by the condition indicates that something from the magazine is missing (usually the insert) I'll post another public update sometime this weekend (which will be the final public posting, after which the auction will be by e-mail until the bidding stops) * Again if you have any questions, ask away. * arrow $2.50 056 - Fair *- Top secret module missing - Bard tunes - real maps TN.DE7 $3.0 073 - Good - Forest of Doom module (detached but included) - inner planes ykchev $1.75 074 - Good *- Combat computer missing - 4 dragons TN.DE7 $1.50 078 - Good/VG - Monsters - aquatic AD&D module (detached but included) - Language lesson geoffrey $1.50 079 - Good/VG - top secret module (detached but included) - magic resistance mayla $2.50 081 - Fair - High level AD&D module (detached but included) - poison - material spell components UCCXKVB $2.00 082 - Very Fair*- Baton races game insert missing - spell research TN.DE7 $1.50 083 - Good/VG - Babba Yagga's Hut module (detached but included) - unarmed combat geoffrey $1.50 084 - Fair *- Cover missing - Twofold talisman module squidly $1.75 085 - Good - Twofold Talisman module - Clerics squidly $1.75 087 - Good - Top secret module - Wildernes geoffrey $1.50 088 - Good *- Elefant Hunt insert missing - Falling damage - MARVEL-Phile geoffrey $1.50 089 - Good *- Creature catalog missing - Shields - sci fi TN.DE7 $1.5 094 - Good - Ranger changes - Creature catalog II (detached but included) geoffrey $1.50 095 - Fair *- Cover missing - Into the Forgotten Realms module, detached but included ykcheu $2.75 098 - Fair - 9th anniversary - Dragons - mutant manual UCCXKVB $1.75 099 - Poor *- Cover Missing - Treasure trove II, some pictures cut out thedm $2.50 100 - Good *- poster missing - city beyond the gate module (detached but included) - "raised dragon" texture on cover geoffrey $1.50 101 - Fair *- Cover missing - creature catalog III (detached but included) geoffrey $1.50 102 - Fair *- Cover missing - Valley of earth mother middle level module (detached but included) geoffrey $1.50 103 - Fair *- Cover loosly attached - Unearth arcana update missing - Future of AD&D - Centaur papers geoffrey $1.50 103 - Fair *- Unearth arcana update missing geoffrey $1.50 104 - Fair/VF - Marvel module - thieves - cover detached but included geoffrey $1.50 105 - Fair - AD&D module - invisibility - cover & back cover detached but included UCCXKVB $2.00 106 - Fair - Cover 1/2 on - variations of paladins - more skills 4 rangers ykcheu $2.75 106 - Good/VG - Variations of paladins - more skills for rangers arrow $2.50 107 - Fair *- Cover missing - Dragons of glory supplement/questionaire geoffrey $1.50 108 - Good - Mutant manual II - environmental effects - cover taped reinforced thedm $2.00 108 - Very Good - Mutant manual II - environmental effects ykcheu $2.25 109 - Good - Customizing D&D classes - Agent 13 poster geoffrey $1.50 109 - Very Fair - Customizing D&D classes - Agent 13 poster missing geoffrey $1.50 110 - Very Good - House on the frozen lands module -10th anniv squidly $1.75 110 - Very Good - House on the frozen lands module -10th anniv geoffrey $1.50 111 - Good - Murder Mystery AD&D module ykcheu $2.50 112 - Very Good - Ultimate Article Index - Mesozoic monsters mayla $2.50 114 - Very Fair - Elven Cavalier - remorhaz - Witch NPC class ykcheu $1.75 115 - Good - Theives - harpies & snakes squidly $1.75 116 - Good/VG - 3-D ship cardboard insert - wild animals - dr who UCCXKVB $2.50 117 - Good/VG - Dice odds - creative campaigns - sage advice - bazaar geoffrey $1.50 118 - Good - Tournaments/Competitions - Nibar's keep game UCCXKVB $2.00 120 - VG/EX - April fool's issue UCCXKVB $2.00 121 - Excellent - Oriental adventures - cardboard castle insert geoffrey $1.50 122 - Excellent - 11th aniversary - African beasts - druids UCCXKVB $2.50 123 - Very Good - Magic and wizardry thedm $2.25 123 - Very Good - Magic and wizardry arrow $2.5 124 - Excellent - Aerial adventures - 2nd edition ?aire UCCXKVB $2.25 124 - Excellent - Aerial adventures - 2nd edition ?aire geoffrey $1.50 125 - Very Good - Clay-O-Rama! - Chivalry - quasi elementals geoffrey $1.50 125 - VG/EX - Clay-O-Rama! - Chivalry - Quasi-elementals UCCXKVB $2.50 126 - VG/EX - Undead UCCXKVB $2.00 127 - Very Good - Fighters 2FVPMANTEL $3.00 128 - Good - King's Table insert game 2FVPMANTEL $3.00 129 - Excellent - Demi-humans UCCXKVB $2.50 130 - VG/EX - The arcane arts TFPAYN01 $2.50 131 - Excellent - Deepearth arrow $1.5 131 - VG/EX - Deepearth UCCXKVB $2.0 132 - Very Good - ORCWARS! board game missing arrow $1.5 133 - Very Good - Berserkers & Spies-Roman gods -marvel index geoffrey $1.50 133 - Very Good - Berserkers & Spies-Roman gods -marvel index 2FVPMANTEL $3.00 134 - VG/EX - 12 anniversary - Dragons tbh1 $2 135 - Very Good - Archers - Space sage advice UCCXKVB $2.0 135 - Very Good - Archers - Space Sage advice tbh1 $4.0 136 - Very Good - Cities & Urban adventures tbh1 $3 137 - Excellent - Wilderness arrow $1.5 138 - Very Good - Horror (Haloween) UCCXKVB $3.25 139 - Very Good - Pages from the Mages UCCXKVB $3.5 140 - Excellent - Clerics & Healers tbh1 $3 141 - Good - Humanoids tbh1 $2 142 - Very Good - AD&D 2nd edition preview UCCXKVB $3.25 143 - Very Good - DM's issue UCCXKVB $2.00 145 - Very Good*- Poster missing - castles thedm $2.5 146 - Very Good*- Poster missing - 13 anninversary - Dragons tbh1 $3.00 147 - Excellent - MAGUS! board game - magic tbh1 $3.5 148 - Excellent - Fighting - Deck of Many things insert TN.DE7 $2.0 149 - Excellent - (No particular feature) TN.DE7 $2.00 150 - Excellent - Horror (Halloween issue) TN.DE7 $2.00 151 - Excellent - Oriental Adventures/Eastern TN.DE7 $2.00 152 - Good *- Underdark - Poster missing is inside- slight crumple on cover, only noticable under inspection TN.DE7 $2.0 153 - Very Good - Gods TN.DE7 $1.75 154 - Good/VG - Poster - Dragonlance story - War TN.DE7 $2.00 155 - Excellent - Faeries - DUNGEON module TN.DE7 $1.75 157 - Very Good - Buck Rogers thedm $2.00 158 - Very Good - 14th anniversary - Dragons UCCXKVB $2.00 159 - Excellent - Spelljammer - Poster missing kohlmaas $2.00 160 - Good/VG *- Urban adventures - AD&D trading card insert missing UCCXKVB $2.25 161 - Very Good - DM issue TN.DE7 $1.75 162 - Good - Haloween - Poster missing thedm $2.0 163 - Excellent - Monsterous compendum insert - Magic TN.DE7 $2.0 164 - Very Good - Oriental Adventures TN.DE7 $1.75 165 - VG/EX - Sea/Undersea TN.DE7 $1.75 166 - Excellent*- Sci Fi (other games) - Dino wars insert missing TN.DE7 $1.75 167 - Excellent - Nature/Wilderness UCCXKVB $2.5 169 - Very Good - Slight crease of back cover - Misc items featured thedm $2.5 170 - Good - Slight crease in cover - Dragon kings game insert - Dragons - 15th anniversary issue UCCXKVB $2.00 171 - Excellent*- Missing poster & trading cards (ARGH!) Cfrye $2.75 172 - Excellent - Underdark hachiman $2 173 - Excellent - Dark Sun intravai $2 174 - Excellent - Horror intravai $3.00 175 - Excellent - World building - Campaign help TN.DE7 $2.00 176 - Excellent - Elves - Giant poster inside TN.DE7 $1.5 177 - Very Good - Calender poster - DM help (gunpowder too) intravai $3.0 178 - Excellent - Fighters & the Fighter class TN.DE7 $2.50 179 - Excellent - GENCON form - Magic items featured TN.DE7 $2.50 181 - Excellent - Calendar Poster - Mages/Sorcerors TN.DE7 $2.50 182 - Excellent - 16 anniversary issue - Dragons TN.DE7 $2.50 184 - Excellent - Non Player Character enhancement TN.DE7 $1.75 185 - Excellent - Dark Sun Campaign Monsters - Dark Sun geoffrey $1.50 186 - Excellent - Haloween - Horror TN.DE7 $1.75 187 - Excellent - Wilderness - Outdoors

misc.forsale

Responding to the moderator: Yes, I agree. What I'm trying to point out is that, in matters of faith (i.e. tenets which are not logically persuasive), one may be convinced of the truth of certain things through, for instance, personal revelation. And its certainly fine to share that revelation or those beliefs with others. And I don't think that its arrogant, persay, to accepts matters of pure faith as truth for oneself. Where I think the conflict arises is in assuming that, where disagreements on beliefs arise, all others *must* have been given the same truth, and that God must reveal His truth to everyone in such a way that all would honestly agree. I think this can lead to the conclusion that anyone who disagrees with you are being sinful or dishonest; that they are rejecting something they *know* to be truth because it is inconvenient for them, or because they wish to spurn God. I would say that this is equivalent to assuming that *all* truths one holds are universal and absolute. And the problem I see with this is that it negates the individuality of humans and their relationships with God. This does not mean there is no absolute truth; just that some areas of doctrinal disagreement may be areas where God has not established or revealed that truth. -- comments, criticism welcome... -Ken alvin@ucsu.colorado.edu

soc.religion.christian

Science is the process of modeling the real world based on commonly agreed interpretations of our observations (perceptions). Values can also refer to meaning. For example in computer science the value of 1 is TRUE, and 0 is FALSE. Science is based on commonly agreed values (interpretation of observations), although science can result in a reinterpretation of these values. The values underlaying science are not objective since they have never been fully agreed, and the change with time. The values of Newtonian physic are certainly different to those of Quantum Mechanics.

alt.atheism

: I'm searching for a phonetic TrueType font for Windows 3.1. If : anybody knows one, please mail me! : : Thanks. : : dw : : : ################################################################## : Dipl.-Inform. Dietmar Weidlich # IfADo, Ardeystr. 67 # : weidlich@arb-phys.uni-dortmund.de # D-4600 Dortmund 50 # : Phone ++49 231 1084-250 # >> Dr. B.: "Koennten Sie das # : Fax ++49 231 1084-401 # MAL EBEN erledigen?" << # Yes, I'm looking for phonetic font(s) too! So if you know one, please mail me too!

comp.os.ms-windows.misc

Yarn of Cargo of Human Bones [1] Copyright, 1924, by the New York Times Company Special Cable to The New York Times PARIS, Dec 22, -- Marseilles is excited by a weird story of the arrival in that port of a ship flying the British flag and named Zan carrying a mysterious cargo of 400 tons of human bones consigned to manufacturers there. The bones are said to have been loaded at Mudania on the Sea of Marmora and to be the remains of the victims of massacres in Asia Minor. In view of the rumors circulating it is expected that an inquiry will be instigated. - - - Reference - - - [1] _New York Times_, December 23, 1924, page 3, column 2 (bottom) - - - - - - - - - - - - On the 78th Commemorative Anniversary of the Turkish genocide of the Armenians, we remember those whose only crime was to be Armenian in the shadow of an emerging Turkish proto-fascist state. In their names we demand justice. In April 1915, the Turkish government began a systematically executed de-population of the eastern Anatolian homeland of the Armenians through a genocidal extermination. This genocide was to insure that Turks exclusively ruled over the geographic area today called the Republic of Turkey. The result: 1.5 million murdered, 30 billion dollars of Armenian property stolen and plundered. This genocide ended nearly 3,000 years of Armenian civilization on those lands. Today, the Turkish government continues to scrape clean any vestige of a prior Armenian existence on those lands. Today's Turkish governmental policy is to re-write the history of the era, to manufacture distortion and generate excuses for their genocide of the Armenian people. In the face of refutation ad nauseam, the Turkish Historical Society and cronies shamelessly continue to deny that any such genocide occurred. This policy merely demonstrates that in the modern era, genocide is an effective state policy when it remains un-redressed and un-punished. A crime unpunished is a crime encouraged. Adolf Hitler took this cue less than 25 years after the successful genocide of the Armenians. Turkey claims there was no systematic deportation of Armenians, yet... Armenians were removed from every city, town, and village in the whole of Turkey! Armenians who resisted deportation and massacre are referred to as "rebels". Turkey claims there was no genocide of the Armenians, yet...Turkish population figures today show zero Armenians in eastern Turkey, the Armenian homeland. Turkey claims Armenians were always a small minority, yet...Turkey claims Armenians were a "threat". In a final insult to the victims, the Republic of Turkey sold the bones of approximately 100,000 murdered Armenians for profit to Europe. Today, the Turkish government is enjoying the fruits of that genocide. The success of this genocide is hangs over the heads of Turkey's Kurdish population. The Armenians demand recognition, reparation, return of Armenian land and property lost as a result of this genocide. ARMENIANS DEMAND JUSTICE ERMENILER ADALET ISTIYOR

talk.politics.mideast

Superficially a good answer, but it isn't that simple. An awful lot of the starvation and poverty in the world is directly caused by the economic policies of the Western countries, as well as by the diet of the typical Westerner. For instance, some third-world countries with terrible malnutrition problems export all the soya they can produce -- so that it can be fed to cattle in the US, to make tender juicy steaks and burgers. They have to do this to get money to pay the interest on the crippling bank loans we encouraged them to take out. Fund-raising for Ethiopia is a truly bizarre idea; instead, we ought to stop bleeding them for every penny they've got. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that there's a Western ethic against Western infanticide. All the evidence suggests that so long as the children are dying in the Third World, we couldn't give a shit. And that goes for the supposed "Pro-Life" movement, too. They could save far more lives by fighting against Third World debt than they will by fighting against abortion. Hell, if they're only interested in fetuses, they could save more of those by fighting for human rights in China. And besides, Suzanne's answer implies that non-Western countries lack this ethic against infanticide. Apart from China, with its policy of mandatory forced abortion in Tibet, I don't believe this to be the case.

talk.religion.misc

: :> As someone else has pointed out, why would the stove be in use on a warm day :> in Texas. : :Do YOU eat all your food cold? Thank you for pointing out the obvious to people who so clearly missed it. I can't stand it when people's first reaction is to defend the aggressor. Mr. Tavares, you have a unique and thoughtful way of getting to the heart of the matter, and I thank you for putting it to good use. Mike Ruff

talk.politics.guns

[a list of large-integer arithmetic packages elided] I thought I would note that except Lenstra's packages, none of the large-integer packages are in the public domain. As an alternative, a straightforward *PD* implementation of Knuth's algorithms may be found as a part of Uof Arizona's ICON distribution. oz

sci.crypt

[flame-bait, pure and simple]

The quotation marks should enclose "laws," not "must." If there were no such rules, even instinctive ones or unwritten ones, etc., then surely some sort of random chance would lead a chimp society into chaos.

alt.atheism

Yeah, Cancer is pretty cool, isn't it.

Hi... I need information on scaring. Particularly as a result of grazing the skin I really wanted to know of 1. would a scar occur as a result of grazing 2. if yes, then would it disappear? 3. how long does a graze take to heal? 4. will hair grow on it once it has healed? 5. what is 'scar tissue'? 6. should antiseptic cream be applied to it regularly? 7. is it better to keep it exposed and let fresh air at it? Please help - any info - no matter how small will be appreciated greatly.

sci.med

For CD-Disk USERS ---------------------- This is NOT a COMMERCIAL AD! I have alot of NEW CD-Disks If You have a CDROM and are interested in purchasing some of these disks Please download the list mentioned below: CD NIGHT OWL'S V8.0 $35.00 Download the File----> CDROMCAT.ZIP or the Freq the MAGIC NAME of----> CATALOG ----------------------------------------------------------- Craig landgraf Buckwheats Pleasure Dome 713-855-1701 INTERnet/USENET: landgraf@p2.f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org ----------------------------------------------------------- PODNET 93:9008/5 FIDONET 1:106/88.1 ITCNET 85:841/803 KINKNET 69:1700/3 SGANET 30:301/0 BBS Number (713) 855-1701

misc.forsale

My T-Bird SC's manual says to replace the platinum plugs every 60,000mi. Wal-Mart has Autolite platinum plugs for $2.00 each. Are these "real" platinum plugs? (I had Bosch platinums in my '80 Fiesta and my dad had 'em in his '84 Bronco--note the keyword "had." They didn't last very long (much less than 50,000mi) before they had to be replaced. I agree that they weren't the greatest.) James

rec.autos

Does anyone know if a Nanao 750i is compatible with any popular Mac video cards? I have an oppurtunity to get a brand new one, cheap, and I am very tempted, but it will be a waste of time if I can't drive it using a standard video card. While I'm on the subject, what's everybody's reccomendations for a 21" color monitor. I've heard good things about the NEC 6FG, and of course, there is always the reliable old Macintosh 21" display, but what are YOUR experiences. David J Harr Cyberpunk Software.

comp.sys.mac.hardware

I don't know about everybody else, but to me, they should have been convicted BECAUSE of the evidence, which in my mind was quite sufficient.

talk.politics.misc

[...] Note that I _never_ said that depression and the destruction of the nuclear family is due _solely_ to extra-marital sex. I specifically said that it was "a prime cause" of this, not "the prime cause" or "the only cause" of this -- I recognize that there are probably other factors too, but I think that extra-marital sex and subsequent destabilization of the family is probably a significant factor to the rise in psychological problems, including depression, in the West in the 20th century.

alt.atheism

I don't care who told you this it is not generally true. I see EVERY single line item on a contract and I have to sign it. There is no such thing as wrap at this university. I also asked around here. Ther is no wrap at Marquette, University of Wisconsin Madison, Utah State, Weber State or Embry Riddle U. I am not saying that it doees not happen but in every instance that I have been able to track down it does not. Also the president of our University who was Provost at University of West Virgina said that it did not happen there either and that this figure must be included in the overhead to be a legitimate charge. I did they never heard of it but suggest that, like our president did, that any percentage number like this is included in the overhead. No Allen you did not. You merely repeated allegations made by an Employee of the Overhead capital of NASA. Nothing that Reston does could not be dont better or cheaper at the Other NASA centers where the work is going on. Kinda funny isn't it that someone who talks about a problem like this is at a place where everything is overhead. Why did the Space News artice point out that it was the congressionally demanded change that caused the problems? Methinks that you are being selective with the facts again. If it takes four flights a year to resupply the station and you have a cost of 500 million a flight then you pay 2 billion a year. You stated that your "friend" at Reston said that with the current station they could resupply it for a billion a year "if the wrap were gone". This merely points out a blatent contridiction in your numbers that understandably you fail to see. Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville.

sci.space