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If you are a normal person, the narcissistic/sociopathic/abusive, so called family, feel it is their duty to destroy every last ounce of normalacy in your body, with any means possible. I have always thought Alfred Hitchcock must have surely known the same kind of people. His stories of how the bad guys alway get it in the end, must have been some type of therapy for him in a world where it seems there is very little justice against these freaks!!!!!
18. Kimani,
As for my response to Lisa's comment, I removed it... only because it was written by Lisa, and I've decided to put faith in her intentions... albeit, intentions that appear to be a little misguided.
As for your most recent comments, presumptuous claims about me, and unsolicited *advice*...Well. I'm not going to let the ignorance (and might I add "arrogance") of others bother me.
19. Sorry if I overstepped. I'll keep the advice to myself.
20. The biggest regret that I have is allowing my children near the MN in the family. I never could have guessed in a million years that the MN would do what she did. I learned my lesson. My oldest has not been near MN since she was 3.5 and my next two children hardly even know her. I will be buying a bottle of champaign on the day that she passes away. I hope she rests in Peace....Soon.
21. Lisette, Your comments on how these phycos screw with our minds when we grow up in this kind of enviroment is dead on. People don't get this because they are either narcs themselves and are covering for people who are just like them or they are just plain stupid and need to shut the h#ll up...
It takes a life time of deprogramming what has been done to us for many.... many freaking years.That's because the brainwashing started when we were old enough to talk and went on well after we became legal adults. Not only that, many people like myself have to sit by and watch this happen to sibs kids because the sibs are narcs themselves.So the narcs evil thinking and ways will be passed on to the next generation. So the heartache for me really never ends.
22. Kimani,
Not a problem. A boundary needed to be set.
I'm glad that you're keeping yourself and your children safely distanced from the MN. It really is amazing that no matter how diabolical we know these MNs to be, they still shock us with their crazy stunts. I guess it's because we're normal, and we could never conceive of how low they can go. I too hope for the MNs to rest in peace... Soon.
Anonymous (above),
Yup. The legacy of narcissism does really get passed down from one generation to the next. I would find that a hard thing to witness. My MN parents were so toxic that they effectively wiped-out the next generation. They had three kids, and none of us had children of our own. MN parent's roots were so weak and diseased that they killed the family tree.
23. Lisa, I just wanted to clarify something - When I wrote this, I was writing about things that took place over a span of years. The abduction of my children took place years ago, and the thought that my kids would be better off without me happened several years before that...I love my kids more than anything, and I always have. When I felt that I should back away from them, it was only because I thought that I was crazy. I didn't know about gaslighting, manipulation, or any of the other covert methods of abuse that my mother employed since the time I was a small child...Much has changed - I know know that my mother is a MN; this was not my fault; I'm not crazy; and my kids are better off with me. We have no contact with my mother now, and life is better than ever.
My purpose in putting this out there was threefold: I wanted to help others in similar situations not feel so alone. Secondly, I wanted people to understand how brainwashed a person can become from dealing with a monster like this. Thirdly, I was forced into silence for so many years that I have a desire to rebel now. I have no reason to be silent, and I won't be any longer. The burden of shame and guilt that I have carried so long doesn't belong to me; it belongs to my evil-ass mother.
Lisette, Thank you for giving me a voice. :)
I will be passing it through my bladder first."
LMAO!!! I'm laughing so hard there are tears in my eyes! Than you for that!!!
Anon from the blog post
Haha, thanks, I guess! *thumbs up
25. Anon, I see. Yeah, I was reacting to the story. Sounds like you've got your shit together now and are happier now. Good ending! For that part, at least. That's how the story goes, thinking you're stupid to realizing you were right all along. Understanding crazy sure is something. Takes a long time, too. Probably something I'll be working towards for the rest of my life.
26. Since it is Christmas time, I want to say that Jesus did not say we should organize our lives around our families, but to do the opposite, to follow him. I think he meant leave the crap behind and follow what is True as well.
I am going out on a limb here, I know it. But I think families can be like cults, parents acting like little gods. They can be a significant threat to Truth. They put people in direct conflict between right and wrong, since family and especially MN's dictate false realities to unsuspecting and innocent children who feel they must deny what they see and hear to avoid abandonment and even torture.
27. Lisette, I thought I was the only one who passed on having a child because of their N parent. Bringing an innocent into her sphere of influence was unthinkable. I pictured her on the phone telling people how it looked nothing like me. How it can't be mine.
I made a choice to get fixed. I saw it through. And at that time I would have told you my mother is an odd, but otherwise nice enough woman.
Yet I jumped at the first opportunity that presented itself to get snipped. So before all the dust up between me and her that led to NC. Before I had ever heard of NPD. My instinct was telling me not to bring a kid into that family.
Lisa- Yes. Understanding crazy is a long road. That's why they call it crazy. Don't spend the bulk of your life trying to figure it out. Take it on faith that crazy is as crazy does, and you can't fix it. Save your altruism for people that won't waste it. Bestowing goodwill to your mother is just pissing in the wind.
28. q1605,
It's interesting about our gut instinct to not want to bring an innocent soul into the sphere of the MN parent/family. The toxic sacks of shit had no problem abusing me, exploiting me and discarding me so there was no way in hell I would have let them near anyone dear to me. And it wasn't so much about bringing a kid into that family (that wouldn't have happened)... it was more about the message I received from MN parents about children and family: marriage and family is prison, and children are a miserable burden. I truly feared, for a very long time, that I might hate my child as much as my mother hated me, and I didn't want to risk it. The only mothering I knew was outright contempt for the child just for existing. It took me a long time to deprogramme from that. I also thought marriage and family = DEATH. I literally thought if you get married and have kids you've got one foot in the grave. My MN parents sent their kids a very strong message... THAT'S why they have no grandchildren. What's worse is that they seeth with contempt at their children because they have no grandchildren, and this makes THEM look bad. They continue to believe there's something wrong with us... At least, that's what they tell inquiring relatives. Well, there is something wrong with my sister, and I'm relieved she never brought a demon spawn, or an innocent soul to abuse into this world.
29. If I were to list the reasons I side stepped having kids tomorrow, I would give a completely different rational. I just know that my motivations are filtered through some warped lens installed by my parents.
My father spent his adult life taking one step forward and two steps back. She always put the kibosh on any progress he had going.
The net effect for me was not trusting good times. I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop. With her around it always did. It's not so much her actions toward me or my sister. It was her destabilizing effect on all of us.
To me a run of good luck equaled "when is shit going to hit the fan"
If my operating system is so fucked up that I can never relax and be comfortable with only me to provide for, I am not going to add all the variables a child brings into the equation.
30. q1605,
I hear that. I can relate to everything you wrote... motivations filtered through some warped lens installed by my parents... the destabilizing effects they had on my trust in family, and the role of parent... all my life being in a state of waiting for the other shoe to drop... and never feeling safe and relaxed enough to handle more than taking care of my basic needs on a day to day.
31. YES! That's exactly it! "When is the shit gonna hit the fan?" I'm sure those kinds of experiences colored my ability to truly enjoy the better times-or at least those times when the monster appeared to be "resting." I learned to NEVER get my hopes up that these periods of relative peace would last... I was just protecting myself/shoring up for the next round of BS or frank terror.
When I look back on growing up the overwhelming feelings are fear, anxiety, confusion and powerlessness. At best it was like being a piece of furniture: Now placed "here," now moved over "there." Don't move, don't make a sound. Stay out of the house as much as possible. Avoid being in kicking, hitting, hair-pulling "range." Don't turn your back. Come when called. Don't cry. Don't ever show any emotion except "neutral." Don't ask for anything.
And don't EVER disclose ANYTHING about your inner world. It'll be fashioned into an IED somewhere down the road by the bitch who'll detonate it at her leisure, when I wasn't expecting it and when I was most in need of help.
Even though I grew up in a metro area, I can not travel to large cities and spend much time there now. It's as if I've lost the "filter" that allows others to ignore the mundane and non-threatening stimuli (lights, lots of people, sirens etc.) and feel overwhelmed by all that makes a city just that. I don't have PTSD but I am still always situationally aware in ways that others don't seem to be.....waitin' for the shit to hit the fan....
Thanks. I never made that connection.
32. There is some well intentioned writing in these comments. I see common sense advice about pooling mental faculties, and focusing wherewithal. Just meet N parents head on and beat the narcissist at their own game.
Problem is this is not a contest with a defined goal. There aren't any rules to be adhered to. And they have no concrete motivations for what they do.
So taking these bastards on is to be fighting for what? Using what tactics? And to what end?
And the more important question. Why?
She could have just had an abortion.
They didn't really steal the things it takes to have a healthy psyche. We were not born whole and then them chip our wholeness away.
We were born with the same blank slate as others and launched without a map.
No matter how perfectly we project the illusion of being a tightly wrapped person, it just isn't real.
No matter how convincing we are to others, and how well we convince ourselves, we will never feel the same self assurance that others feel.
And you can't unite the world to get behind a cause they don't give a shit about. Unless people have lived with these freaks, they won't get it. And they don't want to get it.
You can not frame a house and pour the foundation under it later.
33. I can relate so much to the above post that I could have just about written it myself...I have spent my entire life waiting for the shit to hit the fan, and although I'm NC with my evil mother now, somehow I'm still waiting. I guess it's the PTSD that keeps me so jumpy and always looking over my shoulder - I can't really relax. I have a hard time being in places where there is a lot going on, so I have to plan my trips accordingly, mostly going to quiet, remote areas. What I wouldn't give to be "normal" for once in my life. I would love to know what it feels like to get up and do what I need to do sans the ten ton emotional burden that I lug around every single day of my life.
I don't know about any of the other posters here, but I also have difficulty with people just being nice to me. It's hard to explain but it's painful in a way - any kind act, no matter how small, can reduce me to a pool of tears. On a conscious level, I can say that I'm a good person who is worthy of kindness, but somewhere deep inside, perhaps unconsciously, I must believe the message that was drilled into my head: "You are worthless."
Anon from the blog post
34. No bully has any concrete motivation for what they do... that doesn't mean they shouldn't be deterred. I doubt any of us ACONs consider ourselves a "cause"... I doubt any victim of bullying considers themselves a cause. If there is a cause at all, it's about heightened public awareness of these predators. Just the same way that bullying in schools is now taken seriously. But how many tortured children had to commit suicide before that happened? It takes countless tragedies for people to be forced to recognize what has always existed. Why does it have to come to this? Yeah. People don't give a shit unless it happens to them, or it's not PC to look the other way. Maybe one day a dangerous MN "mother" will be common knowledge and when she goes to abduct her grandchildren an amber alert will be issued, and the story will make national news; instead of letting the kid's parents fend for themselves because it's their "mother" and the children's "grandmother."
35. Lisette. I get what you are saying. They should be taken to task.
I lashed out at my mother like I never thought I could. When I was in my fifties.
By the time we start understanding they are sick it is too late. There were red flags about my mothers behavior all along. Running wild during the day. Hell the fucking bitch and her boyfriend killed a guy. After her trial we left the court room and went home. Where she continued her insanity unabated.
Kids can't fight an N head on. Adults are told to boot strap it.
Oh boo hoo my mommie didn't love me enough.
I see a head line at least once a month about a mother killing her kids.
All I hear about it is a collective gasp of better thee than me.
36. q1605,
So true. the collective gasp of better thee than me. There are headlines alright, AFTER someone winds up dead. It's those red flags warning others that children aren't safe that people should be obliged to act on. Kids can't do it, but adults can. But for some reason "family" is a scared cult that gets to play by its own rules.
Yeah. As adults we're told to boot strap it, and we do. We're collectively shamed for still talking about it after all these years. It's like we're combat soldiers who have finally returned home and can't talk about the atrocities of war. Not an easy burden to bear.
37. q1605 and Lisette, 100% agreed.
A little change of topic here: I was reading through all of the comments on the last three blog posts, and had a few thoughts that I wanted to share to address the "put on your big girl panties" type of responses. This is primarily for the people who have not grown up with a MN for a parent, who can not possibly understand what this is like.
Suppose you were dropped off as a baby in the woods with apes, where you were raised your entire life. Thirty years later, as an adult, you decided that living in the woods wasn't working for you, so you left to live among fellow humans. A nice writer decided to blog your story while you were still adjusting to your new life as a "normal" human being, and my comment to you is as follows: Please, no more of this "poor me" stuff! Tell those apes to get the fuck out of your life, and stop eating bananas three times a day!!! Grab a fork and knife along with other food and eat like the rest of us do!!! Have possession of yourself. You can have all the awareness you want but if you've poor impulse control you'll still be scratching your armpits and crotch in public!!! What it all really comes down to is plain old discipline -- strength of will...
Anon from the blog post
38. Anon from the blog post,
I too can get really emotional at the kindness of others. Especially if they say nice things about me to me. I'm just not used to that. I'm used to contempt and indifference. N parents make a concentrated effort to let you know that you don't matter. They don't nurture, they compete. So when people let me know I matter, and that they care, it almost makes me uncomfortable. I know I deserve it, but it's not the norm. And in some ways I can be very suspicious of it. It sucks that normal, kind, compassionate human behaviour is deeply rooted in us as the exception not the rule.
39. Anon from the blog post,
Awesome analogy! It's all about discipline, impulse control, and strength of will is it?! HA! It has nothing to do with plain old SURVIVAL, and adjusting to a world we aren't accustomed to??
Nicely put!
I'm going to go make myself a banana smoothie... I'm still adjusting, but have learned to use kitchen utensils. Oops sorry. I shouldn't have scratched my crotch... I guess it's poor impulse control. I'm still working on my strength of will.
40. The people who tell us to pull up our boot straps are those who have no empathy for others.I've had people who don't know me or my situation come at me with the most meanest comments.One b**** said to me(as well as a narc family member on the other side of the family)"...know wonder why your family doesn't want to talk to you." When in fact, I'm the one who decided on nc. Church people think that you just need a Bible study. Ya, pharasee that'll "fix" me...
41. Thanks, Lisette. Although I wouldn't wish this experience on anyone (other than my evil-ass mother), it's nice to not feel so alone. I'm getting a little better with people being nice to me, but I have a LONG way to go. Not too long ago, a friend of mine sent me a gift. She's an award-winning crocheter, and sent me an item that she made. I cried when I opened the package - the thought that someone would think enough of me to even bother doing something like this was too much to bear...My own mother treated me like shit my whole life, yet here's a woman who I've not known that long doing something nice for me just because she wanted to? Brain.does.not.compute.
Enjoy your banana smoothie while practicing with your utensils AND scratching your crotch. You'll find that strength of will eventually! LMAO!!!
Anon from the blog post AKA The ape
I see you have met my mother. She peels them with her feet.
This an unpopular stance but trust me. I don't believe in deterrence. I believe in eradication. You'll never see me lighten up on an N. I just don't see a foothold to get over on them. They are such effective chameleons that they always put doubt in the minds of the powers that be.
And the prospect of them fouling their own nest if left to their own devices?
They are too delusional to notice.
43. Get your stinkin' paws off me you damn dirty ape!
I concur, deterrence is next to impossible because they are such effective chameleons. Only the street smart seem to get their number.
44. That is why I mentioned motive. Knowing why someone does what they do is a good start on dealing with what they do.
But they do and say things that are not based on logic and proportion.
So other than going no contact, it is impossible to take them on proactively.
Our defense is always reactive and that is what keeps us off our balance with them.
45. A resounding YES!!! to all the above. I never had a chance to have anything BUT "Big Girl Panties" because someone had to be the damn adult here and it sure as hell wasn't my MNmother.
It's oh-so-easy to pontificate about what we "should" have known/done despite the fact we were the KIDS here? REMEMBER? WE grew up in these hells and despite it all, we're still standin.' I think that's quite a testament to our intelligence, tenacity and survival skills. I don't appreciate being preached to as if I'm some sort of moron, lacking any degree of intelligence-never mind experience and as if the "preacher" even has a clue just who it is they're speaking TO.
Frankly, I have every damn "right" to feel as I do and if it's NOT "PC" I don't give a flying f. Anger is a wonderful motivator. And lacking any experience growing up with an MNparent (never mind any degree of genuine knowledge despite what they read/can quote from some book) all I can think is "Wow, you are not only ignorant in the truest sense of the word, you're also so far out of touch with the reality of MNparents here's some cyber Thorazine or Haldol." They work quite successfully for the delusional....however, their efficacy for use with presumptuous, pompous assholes has not been studied.
But clearly I see here there are some "unwitting volunteers!"
46. Anger is not only a great motivator, it feels good to have some kind of passion about something. The rest of my emotions have gone stale.
I would rather hate my mother and dream of throttling her than to isolate and hide myself away.
47. O.M.G.
In my case, it wasn't inmates on death row, but one inmate not on death row. MIL decided to give our names, address and telephone number to the son of a friend of hers, without asking our permission, of course. MIL decided that we needed to take in a boarder, and so she would make this happen. She told the friend that I spent the days alone at home with our newborn baby, and that we needed money. In her mind, an ex-con with no job was the obvious perfect solution to this imaginary problem.
So it was that she portrayed me as the villain, who was very ungrateful for the help that she was providing, unsolicited, by taking the initiative to solve our (non-existent) cash flow problem by taking in soon-to-be-free prisoners. She refused to say what it was that landed this person in jail, but she knew.
I felt very uncomfortable in our home after that, and feared that the ex-con would show up some day. Such was her world: what new mother wouldn't want a former criminal in the house?