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Okay, are you okay with some space?

5yq

You don't seem real certain.

10od

So maybe this, this idea of space isn't really something you feel will work for you.

4crq

Do want to try to address Frank's concerns about the space?

5yq

You seem apprehensive about it.

10od

So maybe just experiment with it, try it for one night and see what happens. So, in the year and a half, you've been married, Is there ever been a night when you've gone out by yourself?

5yq

Yeah, it's been a couple, especially earlier on, which is nice, you know, just, you know, getting to see old friends and you know, our old college friends, like, of course, we attended, you know, events together and like seeing old friends and everything like that, but there's been, there's been a few times, you know, not, not more than I can count on both my hands, but there's been a few times where I've, you know, gone out and just had, like, you know, a guy's night or something.

0id

Okay, and what would happened, like in terms of like between you, so,

1irq

just getting out of the house is basically the hardest part. You know, just finding a way to ensure That, you know, it'll be okay. I'm going to be back home later on in the night that she doesn't need to worry about me, you know, if I have any trouble or anything pops up that I need her help, I'll let her know. And, you know, just knowing that I love her and telling her that I love her and making sure that she knows that I'll be back. But you know, sometimes it's hard because she just gets upset when I tell her that I'm leaving and she doesn't want me to go and she would rather me stay or even take her with me. And you know, I don't want to be the only guy that shows up with my wife. You know, everybody else left their wives at home also. So I don't want to be the odd man out

0id

all right, so this is really an experiment that's already been tried.

4crq

tried twice. Yeah,

6cd

yeah. Just Just a few times. Is there any reason to believe that if you try it next week, it'll be different?

1irq

That's not good.

0id

Don't you don't think so.

11orq

Well yeah. mean, we've been doing it, you know, the past couple months, but it seems like every time we do is you know the same result it's her getting worried about me and you know me trying to find a way to assure her that it's gonna be okay and you know that we're so married we're still in love, you know everything like that, but, you know, it's just, I really want my space and it seems like sometimes I just can't get out of her crib.

10od

Sir, what do you think about that?

11orq

All right. So in terms of the going out, although going out with your friends wouldn't have to be on the weekend that something could happen during the week.

10od

Yeah, absolutely. You know, a lot of my friends normally go out during the week because you know, they have their families and everything to take care of on the weekend. So, yeah, I could definitely go out tonight during the week.

0id

Okay, so you could agree. The both of you could agree to that as kind of terms of this behavioral experiment or weekends, you'll spend those weekends together.

0id

I think we could try that.

7ack

Because that was a concern you specifically brought up. How about Sarah, how about the times during the week? How do you feel about those?

1irq

You feel like you'd respond better to that? Would that be a better experience?

5yq

Something that you think that you could try next week.

0id

So, let's talk about when because you've gone out before and you said it was just getting out. Getting out the house that was the, the real challenge right? So walk me through. This really goes through both of you. What we through what happens when you're when you're getting ready to leave when you're planning to head out?

1irq

So you know, usually I'll go get dressed I'll let her know where I'm going you know, give her my cell phone number you know somebody else's phone number in case my phone is off. Just basically tell her what we're going to do you know whether we're going out to to a pole or you know, going to watch some sporting event or something like that. No, I would tell her what we're doing, you know, just so she knows and knows where she can find me. But then after that, it seems like as soon as I assure her of what we're doing, and when it's happening, when I'll be home, everything like that, it just seems like all the progress I made towards the front door kind of gets pulled back a little bit because like, she doesn't want me to leave, you know, I can see in her eyes that she's not very happy about me leaving her. And that kind of makes me feel guilty, you know, because I don't want to leave her alone. I want her to be more independent. I kind of want her to, you know, if I'm going out, I would like her to go out as well. You know, she says tons of friends. You know, we both have friends. We both have our social circles. And she's kind of it's frustrating when I can't go do my thing, because she's always got to be with me.

0id

So ultimately, after all that you you do go, but you feel feel guilty. And do you have a good time?

5yq

Most of the time, right? Do you know, sometimes I just can't get over the fact that you know, my wife at home who's upset at me, and that makes me upset. You know, it's just a matter of finding the balance between, you know, my independence and her, you know, doing her own thing because I would like her to do that as well.

0id

So sometimes you have a good time sometimes you don't. You're worried about Sarah being home. How about when you come home?

5yq

When I come home, usually things go back to normal. I mean, we've definitely had our exchange of words after a few times me coming back. But most of the time it goes back to normal, which you know, it's fine. We're very loving, affectionate couple. So that's awesome. But you know, most the time it's just overbearing.

0id

Is that how you see it Sarah, the way Frank described it?

5yq

so how about one is out? Like so after after he's left? What do you What are you thinking that? Like?

11orq

You're anxious something bad's gonna happen.

0id

Do you think that there's been any reason for that thinking, like, do you think there's any basis for thinking something bad's gonna happen?

5yq

Absolutely not. No, no, I love Sarah you know, the five years that we've worked together been great, you know, it's it's just where we are now as opposed to where we first were, and when we first got married, it's it's changed and you know, I would just like some independence just like to be on my own sometimes. And I guess I don't always relay that well to her and she doesn't understand why I want my space. I want to go hang out with my friends, but I've been trying to explain to her that, you know, it's, it's a two way street. It's not just all one way and so we have to work on these issues. And you know, that's why we came to you.

9on

Alright, so you're really frustrated by not being able to go out, go out. But you're anxious about when he goes out. So we talked about the possibility of like an experiment or you go out sounds like we might run to the same difficulties you experienced before. What can we change to increase the chances of that experiment working?

1irq

So, so if you called when he was at Piedmont The answer is that's something that's normally possible.

0id

Yeah. Yeah. Most of the time, I'm very good at responding to, you know, making sure that she knows I'm okay. Making sure that she's okay.

0id

So that's a compromise, you'd be willing to make. Absolutely something like that.

5yq

Yeah.

8op

You need any other reassurances from Frank, Sarah?

1irq

Do you have a plan to call Frank? Like when he's out? Or is it something that you would do if you just felt the need to or

1irq

Were you calling for some specific reason?

1irq

Why don't you start reinsurance? Everything's going right. Okay, so that seems reasonable to you. Right? I mean, I, I guess

1irq

but at the same time, like when I'm out doing my own thing, you know, I kind of want that privacy in that, you know, just being in the moment you know, because I know when I get back home, from back with you and I'm, nothing's changed because I've always been with you like we're still married. But when I'm out with my friends, and you know, I'm getting a couple phone calls during you know, the night over the course of the night and it's having to deal with my wife and having to make sure that she knows I'm okay and everything like that it it gets a little frustrating. It's a little, I mean, frustrating

0id

Would that be a good compromise? It was a text or two. I guess. That's better than a phone call, right? Yeah. So not ideal, but you can see how it might decrease your anxiety a bit. Right? And maybe work toward a little bit more freedom. So that's how I can experiment you both combined to try.

5yq

Okay, so we could try and try it out.

0id

Alright. So it's not a perfect plan. But it's one that you know, I would hope that we could be successful with if you could, though, you're going through it, maybe track what happens, right, from your own perspective, like what you were thinking, the fact left, what you were thinking when you left, how it went, how that separation kind of was conducted. And what happened. Same thing when, while you're out how many times you texted her If you called and then what happened when he got back? Right? That's just kind of, and you can you can keep a record of those things just independently. You know, you write it down Come your experience and you write down your experience. And we'll come back next time. No matter what happens with it, we'll compare and kind of see what see what happened and how we could make adjustments to to make it work even better.

0id

between here and there, obviously, if it were easy, you wouldn't need me, you wouldn't have 13 therapists. If this were easy you would have been to a life you wanted a long time ago. So it's obvious that it's easy it already be done. Because it sounds like you're a person with a lot of motivation works really hard, because there are very few people who wouldn't quit before 13 therapists. So that's a very good quality. The very fact that you've gone through all these therapists is a good sign for us. Nonetheless, it is difficult. between here and there, there's going to be hell. Exactly. Right. So I figure our number one priority has to be to get you to stay alive through house so that we can get to the life you want. If that's where we're at. Now. We got to have some sort of agreement, not by writing a contract. Because I'll fire you if you try to kill yourself that because we both sort of have to face the fact that to get there you got to go through there and to go through there you got to stay alive.

0id

Okay what you guarantee that you can get you can call me and I'll guarantee I'll get myself

6cd

What are you gonna do if I fail?

1irq

Beside break Mike. Okay. So if I don't help you, you'll kill yourself. Yeah, okay, but if I do help you Well

0id

Okay, how are you?

2gt

Good. Thanks for asking. I understand you've come here today to the agency because you had a recent arrest.

2gt

Yeah, I got a DUI for being under the influence of alcohol, marijuana,

0id

alcohol and marijuana. How recently was this DUI? About a week ago? Okay, so what's been going on when that happened?

1irq

Um, well, I am going to have to go to courtsoon. And I know that I'm probably gonna have to go I'd like treatment or something like that, but I really just don't want to. So I just, I'm just coming here becauseI don't know maybe I can like get out of it if I'm gettingsome type of treatment. But yeah,

0id

get out of it. You mean get out of the charge?

4crq

Yeah. I mean, I feel like they're probably gonna make me like go to like rehab or something like that. And I don't want to do that.

6cd

So you feel like you can get out of the rehab or two.

11orq

I don't know. I really am not sure.

10od

So at this recent arrest, you realize it may be a value to stop using which really don't want to Yeah, stuck there.

5yq

Yeah kind of

8op

when you drink Do you ever socialize the same time?

5yq

I mean sometimes I'll like go to bars and things like that but most of the times just like at my house

0id

alone so do the marijuana

4crq

yeah I mean I like a few people that are like smoke with but usually just kind of like by myself and myself every day so it was with people

6cd

so it doesn't sound like you're really worried about losing your social support if you stop using now early sweetie losing

0id

um this this alcohol and I want to take it for pain relief qualities Yeah.

0id

Any other reasons um

5yq

it's just easier

0id

forget about problems Yeah. So affects your mood in a positive way.

0id

Yeah like I get like I like the feeling once I'm drunk

7ack

Have you use since you had to do it?

5yq

Um, I haven't drank but I've as a situation.

0id

So you have the use it takes away pain for you to take swings xiety feels good. But then you have these consequences of the law. And you figure those two things out.

0id

I don't know. I don't know if there is what was your wealth of knowledge. So like not as just

0id

You can imagine that. So it was a good the other side. Can you imagine having further it says law enforcement like more charges in the future.

5yq

I guess I hadn't really considered that.

9on

So you could kind of picture an outcome where you beat these charges or there's not a really heavy consequence. And you'll be more careful in the future.

5yq

I don't know. Yeah, I guess so.

9on

So with that thinking, you continue to use as you were, that you would take out the part that got you in trouble.

0id

Yeah.

7ack

First you have to get out of trouble this time.

0id

Yep.

7ack

So if you could have the pain and anxiety go away without the alcohol marijuana, would you continue to use it?

5yq

I just couldn't imagine

0id

So there's a social component here.

0id

Yeah, a little bit. I drink mainly by myself just because all my friends work like nine five jobs. They don't drink every day. But I do. But like on the weekends, like all of my friends who I

7ack

So even if you had no anxiety, no pain You'd have to give up at least those interactions with your friends. How would they respond if you went out with them? I didn't drink.

1irq

Um, they probably just like wouldn't understand it, because we all go out and we get like really drunk and

0id

So it'd be socially awkward. straining the relationships with your friends. So the quitting alcohol and marijuana like stopping use that doesn't seem like a good route for you

0id

know.

3gc

But then you have this distressing situation which is making you second guessed some of it.

0id

Yeah, I mean, it's making me think that like, maybe I, I need to, like make a change. I just can't see that. That's the change I'm making. So

7ack

you need to make some change. Yeah, but not the alcohol. Drugs.

0id

Yeah, yeah.

7ack

Something else could change.

0id

Yeah, I don't know what but

9on

So you could reduce your usage, avoid driving and that might that might get you to your goal. Would that be enough usage to stop the anxiety of the pain?

1irq

Am I just not going anywhere ever? I might not drive as often

0id